# Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2



## Art__Allm

MJB12741 said:


> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?



Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:




> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?


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## Art__Allm

Mindful said:


> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.



How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?


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## toastman

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...

There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.


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## aris2chat

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.


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## MJB12741

Surely even the Pali supporters aren't so uninformed as to believe Zionism actually started with the Jews.  Or is it possible they really are so dumb as to believe that the Jew Theodore Herzel started the Zionist movement?


Excerpt The Christian Roots of Zionism Religion Dispatches


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## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...







 Unsubstantiated out of context repeats that show how desperate Nazi's are to blacken the Jews name. Any comment on the Ayotollah's words when he said " when Iran gets a nuclear weapon we will fire it at Israel and we don't care if 10 million muslims lose their lives as long as we kill one Jew".


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## MJB12741

Phoenall said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forget that not all Zionists are Jews and not all muslims are arabs. I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
Click to expand...


Good point.  The roots of Zionism do indeed go way back in Christianity.


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## montelatici

I


aris2chat said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
Click to expand...


Iran does not have nuclear weapons.  Israel does have nuclear and  Israel also has the Samson option, where it is implied that they will try to destroy as much of the world as possible (enemies and allies) if  the Jewish state is threatened.

"In matters of nuclear strategy, it may sometimes be better to feign irrationality than to purposefully project complete rationality. Earlier, in IDF history, Moshe Dayan had genuinely understood this strangely counter-intuitive injunction:* “Israel must be like a mad dog,*” said Dayan, ” too dangerous to bother.“

Dayan was right. He knew what he was talking about."

The Jewish Press Samson Option


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> I
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Iran does not have nuclear weapons.  Israel does have nuclear and  Israel also has the Samson option, where it is implied that they will try to destroy as much of the world as possible (enemies and allies) if  the Jewish state is threatened.
> 
> "In matters of nuclear strategy, it may sometimes be better to feign irrationality than to purposefully project complete rationality. Earlier, in IDF history, Moshe Dayan had genuinely understood this strangely counter-intuitive injunction:* “Israel must be like a mad dog,*” said Dayan, ” too dangerous to bother.“
> 
> Dayan was right. He knew what he was talking about."
> 
> The Jewish Press Samson Option
Click to expand...






 How do you know that iran does not have a nuclear weapon ?


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## Art__Allm

aris2chat said:


> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?



No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine". 

Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.

For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.

Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.

What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.




Wow!



What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?

Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?




> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia





> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.

According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.

So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?


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## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> How do you know that iran does not have a nuclear weapon ?



All American and Israeli secret services confirmed that Iran does not have any intention to build an atomic bomb.


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## Penelope

aris2chat said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
Click to expand...


Have no fear, SA is going to have nukes first, buying them from Pakistan. And yet Iran does not have nukes. Possibly they should buy them from Russia. I find it amazing that your all on Sunnis side, when Iran is helping us fight Isis and Isis are rebel Sunnis, (I think they are paid mercenaries, but that is besides the point) , and the point is Saudi Arabia and Qatar is worst than Iran , Iran need I remind everyone never attacked the US or any other country.


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## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
Click to expand...

  Islam teaches THE REJECTION OF THE TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN VIEW THAT JESUS WAS GOD INCARNATE OR THE SON OF GOD.  That means that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God.  They only believe that he was a prophet.  And Muslims are persecuting Christians in the Middle East as we speak.


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## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Islam teaches THE REJECTION OF THE TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN VIEW THAT JESUS WAS GOD INCARNATE OR THE SON OF GOD. That means that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God.



Wrong, Muslims do not accept that Jesus was himself the God (Allah), but they accept that he was the son of God (Allah).




ForeverYoung436 said:


> And Muslims are persecuting Christians in the Middle East as we speak.



Only those Muslims, that are supported or instigated by Zionists.

BTW, what about Jesus in the Talmud?
Why do you not comment on this issue?
Do Jews believe that Jesus was the son of God, like Muslims do?


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## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam teaches THE REJECTION OF THE TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN VIEW THAT JESUS WAS GOD INCARNATE OR THE SON OF GOD. That means that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Muslims do not accept that Jesus was himself the God (Allah), but they accept that he was the son of God (Allah).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Muslims are persecuting Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only those Muslims, that are supported or instigated by Zionists.
> 
> BTW, what about Jesus in the Talmud?
> Why do you not comment on this issue?
> Do Jews believe that Jesus was the son of God, like Muslims do?
Click to expand...


Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate.  Cannot you understand your own links?  ISIS is not supported by Zionists.  There are some derogatory messages about Jesus in the Talmud.  So what?  Jews are not killing Christians in the Middle East as we speak.


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## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam teaches THE REJECTION OF THE TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN VIEW THAT JESUS WAS GOD INCARNATE OR THE SON OF GOD. That means that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Muslims do not accept that Jesus was himself the God (Allah), but they accept that he was the son of God (Allah).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Muslims are persecuting Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only those Muslims, that are supported or instigated by Zionists.
> 
> BTW, what about Jesus in the Talmud?
> Why do you not comment on this issue?
> Do Jews believe that Jesus was the son of God, like Muslims do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate.  Cannot you understand your own links?  ISIS is not supported by Zionists.  There are some derogatory messages about Jesus in the Talmud.  So what?  Jews are not killing Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
Click to expand...


I


ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam teaches THE REJECTION OF THE TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN VIEW THAT JESUS WAS GOD INCARNATE OR THE SON OF GOD. That means that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Muslims do not accept that Jesus was himself the God (Allah), but they accept that he was the son of God (Allah).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Muslims are persecuting Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only those Muslims, that are supported or instigated by Zionists.
> 
> BTW, what about Jesus in the Talmud?
> Why do you not comment on this issue?
> Do Jews believe that Jesus was the son of God, like Muslims do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate.  Cannot you understand your own links?  ISIS is not supported by Zionists.  There are some derogatory messages about Jesus in the Talmud.  So what?  Jews are not killing Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
Click to expand...


I just googled "What Christians and Muslims believe about Jesus".  Muslims believe Jesus was a messenger of God.  They even believe he was born of a virgin.  But they are strictly monotheistic.  They don't believe in the Trinity, or that he was the son of God.  They don't believe in Jesus' resurrection.  They believe a man resembling Jesus was crucified instead of Jesus.


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## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?




OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.



> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



But you have the second time ignored my question.

Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
Are you afraid to answer this question.






ForeverYoung436 said:


> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.



Are you sure?


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## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
Click to expand...






 So who have they threatened with their alleged nuclear weapons ?


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## Daniyel

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

Since only fear intimidates enemies and you are the underdog in the sea of enemies.


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## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
Click to expand...


No, I answered your question already.  I said previously that there are about 4 or 5 lines in the Talmud (which amounts to several libraries) that describe Jesus negatively.  And I also said so what?  Jews aren't killing Christians.


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## Penelope

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I answered your question already.  I said previously that there are about 4 or 5 lines in the Talmud (which amounts to several libraries) that describe Jesus negatively.  And I also said so what?  Jews aren't killing Christians.
Click to expand...


How would we know? Jews own the Media.


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## Penelope

Daniyel said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since only fear intimidates enemies and you are the underdog in the sea of enemies.
Click to expand...


I think its an empty threat, most Jews do not believe in the afterlife, esp. the top ones, they are just trying to put fear into everyone.  I read how Summer Redstone thinks he is going to live forever.


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
Click to expand...

Art__Allm 
How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.

According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook


----------



## Penelope

Hossfly said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
Click to expand...





Hossfly said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
Click to expand...


The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I answered your question already.  I said previously that there are about 4 or 5 lines in the Talmud (which amounts to several libraries) that describe Jesus negatively.  And I also said so what?  Jews aren't killing Christians.
Click to expand...


Of course Israeli Jews kill Christians, they have been killing Christian Palestinians since the first Europeans began invading/settling Palestine.

Palestinian Christians were killed by Israeli Jews this summer in Gaza.


*Gaza's Christians bury their first casualty of the war.*

Gaza s Christians bury their first casualty of the war - Yahoo News


----------



## MJB12741

The Palestinians have had a history of not getting along with any other people in the region, including their own Arab brothers in Arab countries.       Is it any wonder why no Arab country will grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?


----------



## toastman

Art__Allm said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
Click to expand...


Rogue state LOL

It's quite simple actually. If you don't attack/threaten Israel, you won;t be attacked/threatened. Only a deluded idiot would take what you posted seriously, and think that Israel will nuke the world if their existence is at stake. 
You truly are a misinformed person. I think it't time to stop reading propaganda sites about Israel before you are brainwashed beyond repair.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I answered your question already.  I said previously that there are about 4 or 5 lines in the Talmud (which amounts to several libraries) that describe Jesus negatively.  And I also said so what?  Jews aren't killing Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course Israeli Jews kill Christians, they have been killing Christian Palestinians since the first Europeans began invading/settling Palestine.
> 
> Palestinian Christians were killed by Israeli Jews this summer in Gaza.
> 
> 
> *Gaza's Christians bury their first casualty of the war.*
> 
> Gaza s Christians bury their first casualty of the war - Yahoo News
Click to expand...


There was no European invasion ,except in your deluded brain.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> I
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Iran does not have nuclear weapons.  Israel does have nuclear and  Israel also has the Samson option, where it is implied that they will try to destroy as much of the world as possible (enemies and allies) if  the Jewish state is threatened.
> 
> "In matters of nuclear strategy, it may sometimes be better to feign irrationality than to purposefully project complete rationality. Earlier, in IDF history, Moshe Dayan had genuinely understood this strangely counter-intuitive injunction:* “Israel must be like a mad dog,*” said Dayan, ” too dangerous to bother.“
> 
> Dayan was right. He knew what he was talking about."
> 
> The Jewish Press Samson Option
Click to expand...


Wow, you deluded pro Palestinians will find just about anything to criticize Israel. Talk about grasping at straws  

The one's who are threatening destruction are the Palestinians. Look at the Hamas charter, it calls for Israel's destruction.


----------



## toastman

Penelope said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I answered your question already.  I said previously that there are about 4 or 5 lines in the Talmud (which amounts to several libraries) that describe Jesus negatively.  And I also said so what?  Jews aren't killing Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would we know? Jews own the Media.
Click to expand...


Of course they do Penelope. Not just the media, Jews own the world, haven't you heard.


----------



## Penelope

MJB12741 said:


> Surely even the Pali supporters aren't so uninformed as to believe Zionism actually started with the Jews.  Or is it possible they really are so dumb as to believe that the Jew Theodore Herzel started the Zionist movement?
> 
> 
> Excerpt The Christian Roots of Zionism Religion Dispatches



Yep that ole Protestant Revolution.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I answered your question already.  I said previously that there are about 4 or 5 lines in the Talmud (which amounts to several libraries) that describe Jesus negatively.  And I also said so what?  Jews aren't killing Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course Israeli Jews kill Christians, they have been killing Christian Palestinians since the first Europeans began invading/settling Palestine.
> 
> Palestinian Christians were killed by Israeli Jews this summer in Gaza.
> 
> 
> *Gaza's Christians bury their first casualty of the war.*
> 
> Gaza s Christians bury their first casualty of the war - Yahoo News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no European invasion ,except in your deluded brain.
Click to expand...


What do you call people from Europe going to another continent to evict the inhabitants to set up their own colony? A picnic?


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
Click to expand...


because art has no idea what he is talking about and probably got his information off some crack pot hate site


----------



## toastman

They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. 

What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.


----------



## member

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the palestinians part 2 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"who"* ? people who evolved into voting for terrorists as their government !
> 
> 
> you can't negotiate peace with terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For......later….
Click to expand...


----------



## Penelope

toastman said:


> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.



that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.


----------



## toastman

Penelope said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
Click to expand...

No they didn't, that was the Palestinian propaganda version.


----------



## Hossfly

Penelope said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
Click to expand...

Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.

Jesus In The Talmud


----------



## toastman

Penelope said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
Click to expand...

Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
Click to expand...

There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.


----------



## Roudy

Palestinian Muslim animals killed over 150,000 Lebanese Christians.  That's how much they care for the Christians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr Haidar Eid, a professor of post-colonial and post-modern literature at Al Aqsa University, in Gaza.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> Palestinian Muslim animals killed over 150,000 Lebanese Christians.  That's how much they care for the Christians.


What is the other half of that truth there big guy?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
Click to expand...






 Then show a link that they mooched Britains military, and it has to be an unbiased source.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dr Haidar Eid, a professor of post-colonial and post-modern literature at Al Aqsa University, in Gaza.*






 Yep just another ISLAMONAZI source of propaganda and lies


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Muslim animals killed over 150,000 Lebanese Christians.  That's how much they care for the Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the other half of that truth there big guy?
Click to expand...





 That the Christians took their revenge and executed a handful of Palestinian scum


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
Click to expand...


Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
Click to expand...


I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
Click to expand...






 Does not say that the Jews mooched of the British at all, so how about a link saying they did. You can always retract and admit that you were lying because you are just a Jew Hating racist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does not say that the Jews mooched of the British at all, so how about a link saying they did. You can always retract and admit that you were lying because you are just a Jew Hating racist.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. *You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine. *
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
Click to expand...


Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets. 

You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.


----------



## toastman

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does not say that the Jews mooched of the British at all, so how about a link saying they did. You can always retract and admit that you were lying because you are just a Jew Hating racist.
Click to expand...


I don't consider Tinmore to be a Jew hater or a racist to be honest. I might disagree with his views, but I have never seen him post anything racist or anti Jewish.


----------



## Penelope

The real quest. is who are the Jews? Jews came from the line of Judah, but he married a Canaanite woman, from the line of Ham.
So a real Jews would be hard to find, but I imagine most Pals have some Jewishness to them:
Judges 3:5-7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

5 So the Israelites settled among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.6 They took their daughters in marriage, and gave their own daughters to their sons in marriage,and served their gods.

Right from the git go, intermarriage.  Moses was   a Levite according to the bible, not a jew.

The Pals are probably Israelites who stayed on the land for centuries but most converted to Islam.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Muslim animals killed over 150,000 Lebanese Christians.  That's how much they care for the Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the other half of that truth there big guy?
Click to expand...


The other half of it is that Palestinian Muslim animals committed ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Christians of Lebanon, in an effort to create a homeland for themselves over there.


----------



## Roudy

Penelope said:


> The real quest. is who are the Jews? Jews came from the line of Judah, but he married a Canaanite woman, from the line of Ham.
> So a real Jews would be hard to find, but I imagine most Pals have some Jewishness to them:
> Judges 3:5-7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
> 
> 5 So the Israelites settled among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.6 They took their daughters in marriage, and gave their own daughters to their sons in marriage,and served their gods.
> 
> Right from the git go, intermarriage.  Moses was   a Levite according to the bible, not a jew.
> 
> The Pals are probably Israelites who stayed on the land for centuries but most converted to Islam.



Wrong again, asylum escapee.  Palestinians are Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands.


----------



## Roudy

Penelope said:


> The real quest. is who are the Jews? Jews came from the line of Judah, but he married a Canaanite woman, from the line of Ham.
> So a real Jews would be hard to find, but I imagine most Pals have some Jewishness to them:
> Judges 3:5-7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
> 
> 5 So the Israelites settled among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.6 They took their daughters in marriage, and gave their own daughters to their sons in marriage,and served their gods.
> 
> Right from the git go, intermarriage.  Moses was   a Levite according to the bible, not a jew.
> 
> The Pals are probably Israelites who stayed on the land for centuries but most converted to Islam.



Today's Jews are the real Jews, moron.  Not a bunch of Arab Muslims who practice Islam and speak Arabic, and certainly not a bunch of replacement theologist Nazis.


----------



## Penelope

Roudy said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real quest. is who are the Jews? Jews came from the line of Judah, but he married a Canaanite woman, from the line of Ham.
> So a real Jews would be hard to find, but I imagine most Pals have some Jewishness to them:
> Judges 3:5-7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
> 
> 5 So the Israelites settled among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.6 They took their daughters in marriage, and gave their own daughters to their sons in marriage,and served their gods.
> 
> Right from the git go, intermarriage.  Moses was   a Levite according to the bible, not a jew.
> 
> The Pals are probably Israelites who stayed on the land for centuries but most converted to Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, asylum escapee.  Palestinians are Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands.
Click to expand...


Your the arabs, I just showed you that Abraham was not a Hebrew nor a jew, nor was Noah or Moses, or Jacob. Get over it. There was never a jew race.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does not say that the Jews mooched of the British at all, so how about a link saying they did. You can always retract and admit that you were lying because you are just a Jew Hating racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




 So you retract and admit that you were lying


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.
> 
> Jesus In The Talmud
Click to expand...


Jesus couldn't have studied the talmud if it was written after his birth
Jesus was not an uncommon name of his time.  He taught the torah
The references in the talmud are clearly not what art implied

thank you for posting the talmud quotes


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> The real quest. is who are the Jews? Jews came from the line of Judah, but he married a Canaanite woman, from the line of Ham.
> So a real Jews would be hard to find, but I imagine most Pals have some Jewishness to them:
> Judges 3:5-7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
> 
> 5 So the Israelites settled among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.6 They took their daughters in marriage, and gave their own daughters to their sons in marriage,and served their gods.
> 
> Right from the git go, intermarriage.  Moses was   a Levite according to the bible, not a jew.
> 
> The Pals are probably Israelites who stayed on the land for centuries but most converted to Islam.





Who are the "pure Americans" then, would they be First Nation peoples or would they be colonisers and immigrants come to steal the First Nations lands.
What you spout is the beginning of the Jews and not the result of years of intermingling with others. Who are the Americans, would they be the founding fathers or would they be the interbred colonisers from Europe and Asia who have lost their individualism  ?


----------



## Hossfly

aris2chat said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.
> 
> Jesus In The Talmud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jesus couldn't have studied the talmud if it was written after his birth
> Jesus was not an uncommon name of his time.  He taught the torah
> The references in the talmud are clearly not what art implied
> 
> thank you for posting the talmud quotes
Click to expand...

You're right about the Talmud. But he knew about the precursor, mischnah with which he disagreed. Thats what I should have said.


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.
> 
> Jesus In The Talmud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jesus couldn't have studied the talmud if it was written after his birth
> Jesus was not an uncommon name of his time.  He taught the torah
> The references in the talmud are clearly not what art implied
> 
> thank you for posting the talmud quotes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right about the Talmud. But he knew about the precursor, mischnah with which he disagreed. Thats what I should have said.
Click to expand...


When was the Mishnah written Where By Whom


----------



## Hossfly

aris2chat said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.
> 
> Jesus In The Talmud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jesus couldn't have studied the talmud if it was written after his birth
> Jesus was not an uncommon name of his time.  He taught the torah
> The references in the talmud are clearly not what art implied
> 
> thank you for posting the talmud quotes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right about the Talmud. But he knew about the precursor, mischnah with which he disagreed. Thats what I should have said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the Mishnah written Where By Whom
Click to expand...

If you read almost any book nowadays by a professor, rabbi or Christian clergyman who cares deeply about Jewish-Christian relations and interfaith dialogue, you are likely to encounter the view that Jesus was basically a faithful Jew of the rabbinic (Pharisaic) persuasion. A pleasing notion, but is it accurate? 

Yes, Jesus is repeatedly quoted in the gospels as embracing Jewish religious observance of a certain kind. He must have accepted broadly defined commandments like the Sabbath and Temple sacrifice, because just after his death his followers were still practicing them. 

What Jesus rejected was the Oral Torah (scripture commentary passed down for centuries) that explains the Written Torah (the first five books of the Bible). At the very heart of rabbinic Judaism, this notion of an Oral Torah recognizes that the first five books of the Bible are cryptic documents. It posits that these scriptures were revealed to Moses along with a key to unlock the code. That key is oral tradition, passed from Moses to the prophets to the rabbis, later to be written down in what are now called the Mishnah and Talmud. Anyway that's the theory presented in the first chapter of the Mishnah's tractate Pirke Avot. 

In the gospels, Jesus derides this orally transmitted teaching on matters including the details of Sabbath observance, praying with a quorum, burying the dead, refraining from washing and anointing on fast days like Yom Kippur, donating a yearly half-shekel to the Temple, and hand-washing before eating bread. 
Read more at Rabbi Jesus Not Really. David Klinghoffer on Jesus and Judaism Jewish Law Torah Oral Tradition - Beliefnet.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is exactly what happen. Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.

What about all the documentation they present?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
Click to expand...


AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?

BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
> Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?
> 
> BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .
Click to expand...

Still nothing on those documents, huh.

What about the interviews of historians from several different countries?


----------



## Penelope

Here I thought Israel Hayom and Ynet and Arutz Sheva were the propaganda sites.


toastman said:


> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine.
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.



You might want to remind them of that, some still think God gave the land to them. An army did invade Palestine, and even got rid of the British.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a link of a Jewish army invading the region in the early 1900's
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
Click to expand...





 If the source is suspect then any documentation they present is also suspect by association


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Here I thought Israel Hayom and Ynet and Arutz Sheva were the propaganda sites.
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't go there to evict anyone. They went to create a homeland for themselves, at the promise of the British. You make it sound like an army invaded mandatory Palestine.
> 
> What colony are you talking about. The Jews created Israel, a sovereign state. Remember Monti, your propaganda doesn't apply to real life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to remind them of that, some still think God gave the land to them. An army did invade Palestine, and even got rid of the British.
Click to expand...





 Yep the combined arab league army that was thrashed by the Jews and lostso much face they LIED about the precursor to their invasion and attack.


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## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't. They mooched Britain's military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
> Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?
> 
> BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .
Click to expand...

"The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British Officer consulted by the Commissioners believed that the Zionist programme could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the programme. - See more at: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP DPR study part I 1917-1947 30 June 1978


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
> Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?
> 
> BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British Officer consulted by the Commissioners believed that the Zionist programme could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the programme. - See more at: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP DPR study part I 1917-1947 30 June 1978
Click to expand...






 See even your link blames the arab muslims for the problems, and does not mention any colonisation by European Jews


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
> Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?
> 
> BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British Officer consulted by the Commissioners believed that the Zionist programme could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the programme. - See more at: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP DPR study part I 1917-1947 30 June 1978
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See even your link blames the arab muslims for the problems, and does not mention any colonisation by European Jews
Click to expand...

The Zionist Organization was to use the assurances for "a national home for the Jewish people" to press its plans for the colonization of Palestine on the basis of the Balfour Declaration and its implementation through the League of Nations Mandates System. The Palestinian people were to resist these efforts, since their fundamental political right to self-determination had been denied, and their land was to become the object of colonization from abroad during the period it was under a League of Nations Mandate.  - See more at: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP DPR study part I 1917-1947 30 June 1978


----------



## Art__Allm

Hossfly said:


> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?



Jesus studied the Talmud????


Wow!

You have made my day!!!



Were did you go to school?

In the USA?

Please educate yourself:



> The Talmud has two components. The first part is the Mishnah(Hebrew: משנה, c.* 200 CE*), the written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah (Torah meaning "Instruction", "Teaching" in Hebrew). The second part is the Gemara (c. *500 CE*), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaiticwritings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible. The term _Talmud_ can be used to mean either the Gemara alone, or the Mishnah and Gemara as printed together.
> 
> Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Art__Allm

Penelope said:


> Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.



Yep, the Brits were losing in WW I, they were ready to sign an agreement with Germany, but then Zionists came to the Brits and proposed a deal:

*You invade the Palestine and give it to us, and we promise you that USA will get involved in WW I.*

After that all American papers, who only a month ago supported Germany in her war effort against Russia started the modernization of Germany, and USA eventually got involved in WW I.

If there was no Zionist, there would be no Balfour Declaration, no Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, no dismemberment of Germany after WW I, and therefore no WW II, no Nakba... and no Israel.




> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region.
> 
> *Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. *
> 
> ...
> In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration. This document declared the British government's "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations," viewed with favor "the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People," and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective.
> ...
> The Balfour Declaration radically changed the status of the Zionist movement. It promised support from a major world power and gave the Zionists international recognition.
> 
> Zionism was transformed by the British pledge from a quixotic dream into a legitimate and achievable undertaking.
> 
> Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus studied the Talmud????
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> You have made my day!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Were did you go to school?
> 
> In the USA?
> 
> Please educate yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud has two components. The first part is the Mishnah(Hebrew: משנה, c.* 200 CE*), the written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah (Torah meaning "Instruction", "Teaching" in Hebrew). The second part is the Gemara (c. *500 CE*), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaiticwritings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible. The term _Talmud_ can be used to mean either the Gemara alone, or the Mishnah and Gemara as printed together.
> 
> Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Art__Allm, See my posts #62 and #64 for my explanation, Alice.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  Good one


Art__Allm said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the Brits were losing in WW I, they were ready to sign an agreement with Germany, but then Zionists came to the Brits and proposed a deal:
> 
> *You invade the Palestine and give it to us, and we promise you that USA will get involved in WW I.*
> 
> After that all American papers, who only a month ago supported Germany in her war effort against Russia started the modernization of Germany, and USA eventually got involved in WW I.
> 
> If there was no Zionist, there would be no Balfour Declaration, no Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, no dismemberment of Germany after WW I, and therefore no WW II, no Nakba... and no Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region.
> 
> *Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. *
> 
> ...
> In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration. This document declared the British government's "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations," viewed with favor "the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People," and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective.
> ...
> The Balfour Declaration radically changed the status of the Zionist movement. It promised support from a major world power and gave the Zionists international recognition.
> 
> Zionism was transformed by the British pledge from a quixotic dream into a legitimate and achievable undertaking.
> 
> Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

.  "

LMAO!  Good one.  The Brits "were ready to sign an agreement with Germany but then the Zionists came to the Brits & proposed a deal."   Amazing what we can learn here.  Hey Art, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the Brits were losing in WW I, they were ready to sign an agreement with Germany, but then Zionists came to the Brits and proposed a deal:
> 
> *You invade the Palestine and give it to us, and we promise you that USA will get involved in WW I.*
> 
> After that all American papers, who only a month ago supported Germany in her war effort against Russia started the modernization of Germany, and USA eventually got involved in WW I.
> 
> If there was no Zionist, there would be no Balfour Declaration, no Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, no dismemberment of Germany after WW I, and therefore no WW II, no Nakba... and no Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region.
> 
> *Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. *
> 
> ...
> In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration. This document declared the British government's "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations," viewed with favor "the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People," and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective.
> ...
> The Balfour Declaration radically changed the status of the Zionist movement. It promised support from a major world power and gave the Zionists international recognition.
> 
> Zionism was transformed by the British pledge from a quixotic dream into a legitimate and achievable undertaking.
> 
> Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

If there were no people with the mind set as Art, there wouldn't have been millions and millions of people killled by his Nazi friends.  There also wouldn't have been millions of displaced people.  It's a hoot to see another two-bit anti-Semite come onto this board.  The readers can see why there is so much anti-Semitism in Europe these days.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, you've repeated this lie many times without proving it. I wonder why that is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is long but you have a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
> Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?
> 
> BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still nothing on those documents, huh.
> 
> What about the interviews of historians from several different countries?
Click to expand...

First provide documents, then we will talk.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Tinmore ? Al Jazeera? You post this video and then accuse others of posting propaganda. Al Jazeera is one of the biggest Palestinian propaganda outlets.
> 
> You are the one who needs catching up. You still can't back up your own claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, slime the source. Typical propaganda ploy.
> 
> What about all the documentation they present?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AL Jazeera is a known Palestinian propagandist source. They are EXTREMELY bias. It's no wonder why you are so misinformed on this conflict.
> Why can'y you prove you claim without a long video ? How is it a propaganda ploy to say the truth about Al Ja Propagandeera?
> 
> BTW, you accuse posters here of reading Israeli propaganda sites, so you're being a hypocrite .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British Officer consulted by the Commissioners believed that the Zionist programme could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the programme. - See more at: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP DPR study part I 1917-1947 30 June 1978
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See even your link blames the arab muslims for the problems, and does not mention any colonisation by European Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionist Organization was to use the assurances for "a national home for the Jewish people" to press its plans for the colonization of Palestine on the basis of the Balfour Declaration and its implementation through the League of Nations Mandates System. The Palestinian people were to resist these efforts, since their fundamental political right to self-determination had been denied, and their land was to become the object of colonization from abroad during the period it was under a League of Nations Mandate.  - See more at: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem - CEIRPP DPR study part I 1917-1947 30 June 1978
Click to expand...






Did not exist in 1923 when the land was granted to the Jews, as well as the arab muslims being illegal immigrants and as such not covered by the Mandate. They had their nations and should have stayed in them, and not tried to colonise Jewish palestine


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bolded part above, the British plan was for so many a year to go, not come in like locusts. Also they disregarded the lines. They went with intent to take over all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the Brits were losing in WW I, they were ready to sign an agreement with Germany, but then Zionists came to the Brits and proposed a deal:
> 
> *You invade the Palestine and give it to us, and we promise you that USA will get involved in WW I.*
> 
> After that all American papers, who only a month ago supported Germany in her war effort against Russia started the modernization of Germany, and USA eventually got involved in WW I.
> 
> If there was no Zionist, there would be no Balfour Declaration, no Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, no dismemberment of Germany after WW I, and therefore no WW II, no Nakba... and no Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region.
> 
> *Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. *
> 
> ...
> In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration. This document declared the British government's "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations," viewed with favor "the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People," and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective.
> ...
> The Balfour Declaration radically changed the status of the Zionist movement. It promised support from a major world power and gave the Zionists international recognition.
> 
> Zionism was transformed by the British pledge from a quixotic dream into a legitimate and achievable undertaking.
> 
> Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




 Strange then how the Bolshevik's were a force before WW1, and looked to rule Russia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Leila Abdelrazaq*


----------



## Art__Allm

MJB12741 said:


> The Brits "were ready to sign an agreement with Germany but then the Zionists came to the Brits & proposed a deal."   Amazing what we can learn here.



Well, that is what the Jewish Enciclopedia is reporting.
Please read my post again.

And yes, if you only know the "Hollywood-Version" of history, then you can learn a lot in this forum.


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Strange then how the Bolshevik's were a force before WW1, and looked to rule Russia



What is strange about that?

Bolsheviks were on the payroll of American banksters, they did the bidding of the financial elite of the USA.


----------



## Art__Allm

Hossfly said:


> If there were no people with the mind set as Art...



Says somebody who has no idea about history, who does not know that Talmud was written in our time.



Please read real historical documents and use your brain!

Do not repeat the stupid "Mickey-Mouse-Version" of history, promoted by the Zio-Hollywood.

Learn the real reasons for the massacres of the 20th century, find out who really wanted these wars, and who really profited from them.

And that began with the Napolenic Wars.



> The brothers helped coordinate Rothschild activities across the continent, and the family developed a network of agents, shippers and couriers to transport gold across war-torn Europe. The family network was also to provide Nathan Rothschild time and again with political and financial information ahead of his peers, giving him an advantage in the markets and rendering the house of Rothschild still more invaluable to the British government.
> 
> In one instance, the family network enabled Nathan to receive in London the news of Wellington's victory at the Battle of Waterloo a full day ahead of the government's official messengers.[18] Rothschild's first concern on this occasion was not to the potential financial advantage on the market which the knowledge would have given him; he and his courier immediately took the news to the government.[18]
> 
> Rothschild family - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Strange then how the Bolshevik's were a force before WW1, and looked to rule Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is strange about that?
> 
> Bolsheviks were on the payroll of American banksters, they did the bidding of the financial elite of the USA.
Click to expand...





Just where do you get your ideas from, the communists hated the Bankers with a vengeance. And hated the Americans even more so.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Brits "were ready to sign an agreement with Germany but then the Zionists came to the Brits & proposed a deal."   Amazing what we can learn here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is what the Jewish Enciclopedia is reporting.
> Please read my post again.
> 
> And yes, if you only know the "Hollywood-Version" of history, then you can learn a lot in this forum.
Click to expand...




 And I take it your version of history is the real one because the voices in your head are telling you it is. You can get tablets for that these days.


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Just where do you get your ideas from, the communists hated the Bankers with a vengeance. And hated the Americans even more so.




So why did American banksters supply Bolshevics with money?

American banksters hated the Russian Tsar, the Orthodox Christians, and that was the reason why supported the anti-Christian Bolsheviks.



> Historian George Kennan noted that Schiff helped finance revolutionary propaganda during the Russo-Japanese war and revolution of 1905.[19]_The Jewish Communal Register of New York City_ stated that
> "Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people.* He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia and used his financial influence to keep Russia from the money markets of the United States.*"[20]
> 
> Jacob Schiff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



As we see, Schiff used his influence to keep Christian Orthodox Russia from money markets of the USA, but he financed the enemies of Christians Russia, and these enemies were Bolsheviks.

Churchill writes more about this phenomenon:



> This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution.
> 
> * It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.*
> 
> Zionism versus Bolshevism - Wikisource the free online library



BTW, I am quoting the "kosher" Wikipedia, not "Nazi-Sites".


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> And I take it your version of history...



It is not "my" version of history, it is what the primary sources say.

If you do not agree with the primary sources, then you have to refute them.


----------



## SAYIT

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just where do you get your ideas from, the communists hated the Bankers with a vengeance. And hated the Americans even more so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why did American banksters supply Bolshevics with money?
> 
> American banksters hated the Russian Tsar, the Orthodox Christians, and that was the reason why supported the anti-Christian Bolsheviks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Historian George Kennan noted that Schiff helped finance revolutionary propaganda during the Russo-Japanese war and revolution of 1905.[19]_The Jewish Communal Register of New York City_ stated that
> "Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people.* He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia and used his financial influence to keep Russia from the money markets of the United States.*"[20]
> 
> Jacob Schiff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, Schiff used his influence to keep Christian Orthodox Russia from money markets of the USA, but he financed the enemies of Christians Russia, and these enemies were Bolsheviks.
> 
> Churchill writes more about this phenomenon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution.
> 
> * It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.*
> 
> Zionism versus Bolshevism - Wikisource the free online library
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, I am quoting the "kosher" Wikipedia, not "Nazi-Sites".
Click to expand...


Russia at the end of the 19th Century was a dangerous place to be a Jew and the disintegrating monarchy was in desperate need of a scapegoat. As the publication of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion revealed, there was much to gain by blaming the Jews and fostering pogroms:

If the placement of the forgery in 1902–3 Russia is correct, then it was written at the beginning of the anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire, in which thousands of Jews died or fled the country. Indeed, many of the people whom De Michelis suspects of involvement in the forgery were directly responsible for inciting the pogroms.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just where do you get your ideas from, the communists hated the Bankers with a vengeance. And hated the Americans even more so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why did American banksters supply Bolshevics with money?
> 
> American banksters hated the Russian Tsar, the Orthodox Christians, and that was the reason why supported the anti-Christian Bolsheviks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Historian George Kennan noted that Schiff helped finance revolutionary propaganda during the Russo-Japanese war and revolution of 1905.[19]_The Jewish Communal Register of New York City_ stated that
> "Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people.* He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia and used his financial influence to keep Russia from the money markets of the United States.*"[20]
> 
> Jacob Schiff - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, Schiff used his influence to keep Christian Orthodox Russia from money markets of the USA, but he financed the enemies of Christians Russia, and these enemies were Bolsheviks.
> 
> Churchill writes more about this phenomenon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution.
> 
> * It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.*
> 
> Zionism versus Bolshevism - Wikisource the free online library
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, I am quoting the "kosher" Wikipedia, not "Nazi-Sites".
Click to expand...






 By the way the source of the entry is no kosher but islamonazi.   Learn how to use wikipedia


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I take it your version of history...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not "my" version of history, it is what the primary sources say.
> 
> If you do not agree with the primary sources, then you have to refute them.
Click to expand...






 What primary sources, do you even understand that an article in the NY times written by a Palestinian is sourced to the palestininian and not the NY times.


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there were no people with the mind set as Art...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says somebody who has no idea about history, who does not know that Talmud was written in our time.
> 
> 
> 
> Please read real historical documents and use your brain!
> 
> Do not repeat the stupid "Mickey-Mouse-Version" of history, promoted by the Zio-Hollywood.
> 
> Learn the real reasons for the massacres of the 20th century, find out who really wanted these wars, and who really profited from them.
> 
> And that began with the Napolenic Wars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The brothers helped coordinate Rothschild activities across the continent, and the family developed a network of agents, shippers and couriers to transport gold across war-torn Europe. The family network was also to provide Nathan Rothschild time and again with political and financial information ahead of his peers, giving him an advantage in the markets and rendering the house of Rothschild still more invaluable to the British government.
> 
> In one instance, the family network enabled Nathan to receive in London the news of Wellington's victory at the Battle of Waterloo a full day ahead of the government's official messengers.[18] Rothschild's first concern on this occasion was not to the potential financial advantage on the market which the knowledge would have given him; he and his courier immediately took the news to the government.[18]
> 
> Rothschild family - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I know when the Talmud was written. Too bad you don't have time to read my posts earlier.


----------



## mrjingles

Art__Allm said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
Click to expand...

You're  a rogue human. Why not move to Gaza? Scared of how the Hamas would treat a non muslim infidel?


----------



## Mindful

Some thoughts from the "Angel of Peace".


> Raising rifles against the occupation is our legitimate right, but raising guns against each other is forbidden. _We should put our internal fighting aside and raise our rifles only against the Israeli occupation,”_

“We have frankly said, and always will say: If there is an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, _we won’t agree to the presence of one Israeli in it.”_

“All of this wasn’t enough – the Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government’s hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination.”<


----------



## Mindful

1. A Palestinian force fighting alongside Hezbollah in Syria is emerging as a new player. MEMRI introduces us to the “Galilee Forces” and why should Israel take note.


New Palestinian Fighting Force Emerges in Syria HonestReporting


----------



## Iroble

let us put the question again to revise what we know. Before you reply, everyone must respect one another to know better.
Who is Palestinian? What and Where is Palestine? Who is Israelite? What and Where is Israel?
This is not a propaganda, religion-conflict or racist question. It is a question knowing who are they.


----------



## Roudy

Penelope said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real quest. is who are the Jews? Jews came from the line of Judah, but he married a Canaanite woman, from the line of Ham.
> So a real Jews would be hard to find, but I imagine most Pals have some Jewishness to them:
> Judges 3:5-7New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
> 
> 5 So the Israelites settled among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.6 They took their daughters in marriage, and gave their own daughters to their sons in marriage,and served their gods.
> 
> Right from the git go, intermarriage.  Moses was   a Levite according to the bible, not a jew.
> 
> The Pals are probably Israelites who stayed on the land for centuries but most converted to Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, asylum escapee.  Palestinians are Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your the arabs, I just showed you that Abraham was not a Hebrew nor a jew, nor was Noah or Moses, or Jacob. Get over it. There was never a jew race.
Click to expand...


Wrong again.  You as usual never have a point.  Is there a Muslim race?  Then why do they get to have Mecca, crazy woman? Because of it's significance to Islam, just like Israel and Jerusalem have a significance for Jews and Judaism.  "Jew" is not only a race but a religion and a nation.  

You try very hard to discredit Jews, Judaism and Israel, but as usual you have nothing are going nowhere fast.

Jews have been around for over 3500 years, and will continue to do so.  Israel is here to stay, get used to it, or not, who really gives a fuck. 

Indestructible Jews Max I. Dimont 9780451075949 Amazon.com Books

A compelling and readable account of the four thousand year history of a people that spans the globe and transcends the ages. From the ancient and simple faith of a small tribe to a global religion with adherents in every nation, the path of the Jews is traced through countless expulsions and migrations, the great tragedy of the Holocaust, and the joy of founding a homeland in Israel. Putting the struggle of a persecuted people into perspective, Max Dimont asks whether the tragic sufferings of the Jews have actually been the key to their survival, as other nations and races vanished into obscurity. Here is a book for Jews and non-Jews to enjoy, evoking a proud heritage while offering a hopeful vision of the future.


----------



## Roudy

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Brits "were ready to sign an agreement with Germany but then the Zionists came to the Brits & proposed a deal."   Amazing what we can learn here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is what the Jewish Enciclopedia is reporting.
> Please read my post again.
> 
> And yes, if you only know the "Hollywood-Version" of history, then you can learn a lot in this forum.
Click to expand...


"Jewish *Enciclopedia*"

Ever get the feeling Fart-all is a Moooslem?


----------



## montelatici

Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.


Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,

WOW!



montelatici said:


> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.


*(COMMENT)*

Are you a weizenheimer?  Or what?

v/r
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,
> 
> WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you a weizenheimer?  Or what?
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...


Monti suffers from severe Propagandaism.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,
> 
> WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you a weizenheimer?  Or what?
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Monti suffers from severe Propagandaism.
Click to expand...


Monte is the reason they put instructions on shampoo in this country.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.






 You mean like you did


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
Click to expand...


Are you Christian Roudy?  You'e a good Zionist either way.  Just curious.


----------



## Roudy

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
Click to expand...


From what I hear his conversion didn't go too well. The Imam was too big and it brought back childhood memories from when he was an altar boy.


----------



## Roudy

I guess Monte found me out. I'm actually a Muslim.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
Click to expand...


It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
Click to expand...


I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
Click to expand...


But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
Click to expand...


Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Khalida Jarrar *

**


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
Click to expand...


What a coincidence! I'm into Titi's too!


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
Click to expand...


Don't worry, we're not going to judge all the other good Catholics just because of you.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
Click to expand...


Who are you kidding?

Jews aren't oppressing or killing Christians, MUSLIMS are.  

You aren't concerned at all about it.  You are dedicated Jew hater and this is the only forum you post on.  

Your efforts to make it look like Jews are the ones Christians should be worried about are pretty typical of your type.  Have you been able to "recruit" any Christians into this fake cause?  Ha ha ha


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a coincidence! I'm into Titi's too!
Click to expand...


Well there you go.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding?
> 
> Jews aren't oppressing or killing Christians, MUSLIMS are.
> 
> You aren't concerned at all about it.  You are dedicated Jew hater and this is the only forum you post on.
> 
> Your efforts to make it look like Jews are the ones Christians should be worried about are pretty typical of your type.  Have you been able to "recruit" any Christians into this fake cause?  Ha ha ha
Click to expand...



"In 2007 there were 1,375 and by March 2014, there were 1,313, living in just 390 households. *Today there are 1,312 because a woman aged 70 has been killed in the assault. *an integral part of the greater Palestinian community in Gaza, Christians continue to suffer from the absence of security, a prevailing poor economic situation due to the seven-year blockade, and the repercussions of Palestinian internal division which affects all aspects of life in Gaza. Like all Gazans, upholding aspirations of freedom and building an independent Palestinian state is the way forward," the report says. "The population of the Gaza Strip has for many years lived through harsh conditions collectively, from the Israeli occupation, its siege, and armed attacks on the Gaza Strip which is detrimental to the stability of Gaza and which continues to prevent planning and development by both the government and civil society........"

Gaza s tiny Christian community under siege Christian News on Christian Today


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't worry, we're not going to judge all the other good Catholics just because of you.
Click to expand...


"The decision is an extremely unpopular one for Israel – the Vatican has recognized the State of Palestine in a new treaty."

I think it is you that is going against Roman Catholicism.

Vatican move on Palestine adds fuel to European debate Rapid News Network

"The Palestine Israel Ecumenical Forum (PIEF) of the World Council of Churches invites member churches, faith-based communities and civil society organizations around the world to join together in 2015 for a week of advocacy and action *in support of an end to the illegal occupation of Palestine..."
*
World Week For Peace in Palestine Israel 2015 - WallWillFall - Independent Catholic News

_*
"Churches, NGOs and the Global Campaign Against Israel*_

A large international network of Catholic aid societies serve as funding agents for the humanitarian foreign aid programs of many governments. Some provide taxpayer funds to politicized NGOs active in the Arab-Israeli conflict."

Catholic


*"Pope Canonizes 2 Palestinian Nuns"*

Pope Canonizes 2 Palestinian Nuns


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding?
> 
> Jews aren't oppressing or killing Christians, MUSLIMS are.
> 
> You aren't concerned at all about it.  You are dedicated Jew hater and this is the only forum you post on.
> 
> Your efforts to make it look like Jews are the ones Christians should be worried about are pretty typical of your type.  Have you been able to "recruit" any Christians into this fake cause?  Ha ha ha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "In 2007 there were 1,375 and by March 2014, there were 1,313, living in just 390 households. *Today there are 1,312 because a woman aged 70 has been killed in the assault. *an integral part of the greater Palestinian community in Gaza, Christians continue to suffer from the absence of security, a prevailing poor economic situation due to the seven-year blockade, and the repercussions of Palestinian internal division which affects all aspects of life in Gaza. Like all Gazans, upholding aspirations of freedom and building an independent Palestinian state is the way forward," the report says. "The population of the Gaza Strip has for many years lived through harsh conditions collectively, from the Israeli occupation, its siege, and armed attacks on the Gaza Strip which is detrimental to the stability of Gaza and which continues to prevent planning and development by both the government and civil society........"
> 
> Gaza s tiny Christian community under siege Christian News on Christian Today
Click to expand...


No sane Christian would want to stay in a land where the Hamas animals are in charge.

* "Christians In Gaza Have Faced Increasing Persecution Since Hamas Wrested Control *

Christians in Gaza have faced increasing persecution since Hamas wrested control of the Strip in June 2007.
Since taking control, Hamas has been instituting sharia (Islamic) law throughout the coastal enclave, which, among other things, forbids any non-Muslim from sharing his or her faith.
In January 2010, Majed El Shafie, president of One Free World International, told CBN News Christians are being attacked on an almost daily basis.
“The Christians in the Palestinian Authority [are] facing persecutions. Their homes, their churches — they get attacked almost everyday,” Shafie said.
Christian schools have also been attacked, vehicles torched, equipment stolen and school personnel threatened.

Islamization of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

*Islamization of the Gaza Strip* refers to the efforts to impose Islamic laws and traditions in the Gaza Strip. The influence of Islamic groups in the Gaza Strip has grown since the 1980s. The efforts to impose Islamic law and traditions continued when Hamas forcefully seized control of the area in June 2007 after being elected into power by the Palestinian people and displaced security forces loyal to the secular President Mahmoud Abbas. After the civil war ended, Hamas declared the “end of secularism and heresy in the Gaza Strip.” For the first time since the Sudanese coup of 1989 that brought Omar al-Bashir to power, a Muslim Brotherhood group ruled a significant geographic territory. Gaza human rights groups accuse Hamas of restricting many freedoms in the course of these attempts.

Ismael Haniyeh officially denied accusations that Hamas intended to establish an Islamic emirate. However, Jonathan Schanzer writes that in the two years since the 2007 coup, the Gaza Strip has exhibited the characteristics of Talibanization, a process whereby the Hamas government has imposed strict rules on women, discouraged activities commonly associated with Western or Christian culture, oppressed non-Muslim minorities, imposed sharia law, and deployed religious police to enforce these laws.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
Click to expand...


The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
Click to expand...


He's just a filthy anti semite who believes his religion sanctions hatred of Jews.  Nothing new.  Typical scumbag good for nothing garbage of humanity.  You've seen one you've seen them all.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
Click to expand...


I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's just a filthy anti semite who believes his religion sanctions hatred of Jews.  Nothing new.  Typical scumbag good for nothing garbage of humanity.  You've seen one you've seen them all.
Click to expand...


You are just a filthy racist who believes your adopted religion sanctions the hatred of Muslims and Christians.  You are a typical ignorant, uneducated piece of crap.  You and your kind reduce the intelligence level of the human race, just white trash.


----------



## Roudy

^^^^^^


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
Click to expand...


Great point!  Now ask us if we care what a Nazi wanna be "thinks."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Maha Yakoub*


----------



## Roudy

I don't think even the Pslestinians know who they are. 

It's what happens when you invent an identity and then shove it down people's throats, telling them that's what they are.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Maha Yakoub*


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would never convert to Judaism like Ruddy, (or Islam) can't get into circumcision and I love pork.  I am an RC Christian and proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
Click to expand...


I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
Click to expand...


Just because you say you post facts, doesn't make it true, Everyone here knows you for who you are, a propaganda spewing liar who van't handle the truth.

Why do you even bother posting here if you are going to lie so much ?


----------



## aris2chat

Roudy said:


> I don't think even the Pslestinians know who they are.
> 
> It's what happens when you invent an identity and then shove it down people's throats, telling them that's what they are.



the generation today do not really know their origins except what they have been taught by the PLO/factions and religious leaders.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
Click to expand...


No, you're just infected with the mental disease called anti semtism. 

There is no known cure for you, your hate will consume you.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the first part of your Bible is for circumcision and against pork.  Seriously though, as a Christian I think you should be less concerned about the miniscule amount of Christians in the West Bank and Gaza, and more concerned about the Christians in Iraq, Sudan and Syria who are getting beheaded and crucified by Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
Click to expand...



"I never lie"

You just lied right now


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
Click to expand...


It's possible he actually believes it, a symptom of his hatred and mental illness.  People like him actually believe they are doing "God's work" by attacking the "Christ killin' Jews". Which will pave the way to "heaven" for him.  

 Not too long ago in another thread discussing Jesus and Christianty he proved once and for all that his hatred is all based on a warped interpretation of Christianty, the same garbage that led to the genocide of the Jews during the inquisitions, crusades and culminating with the holocaust.  

He's even put up his picture to show everyone that he looks every bit as mentally ill as he sounds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Maha Yakoub*
Click to expand...


Why the fiddles?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
Click to expand...






 Do you use glass pyramids and valve/tube amplification, or are you just a know nothing about true Hi-Fi.   What equalisation do you use, have you got a graphic equaliser. What cut offs does your crossovers have and do you use balanced enclosures.

 I use a pair of ecc 82's in push pull for each channel fed from a tba chip acting as a pre amp, home designed and built . Feeding a stack of 4 speakers fed through a home brew crossover. Turntable mounted of glass pyramids at each corner and a perfect balance on the tone arm. Only two controls on/off switch and  volume, the rest is tailored to my preference and the room.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be less concerned about Jews killing/oppressing Christians than Muslims killing/oppressing Christians?  Or Hindus doing the same? I am equally concerned. The concerns about the problems of Christians in the broader Middle East are discussed in the appropriate forum, called Middle East.  This is the Israel/Palestine forum.  Why do you bring up the broader Middle East here when there is a specific forum for it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
Click to expand...


Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.


----------



## toastman

Have you s


P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Maha Yakoub*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the fiddles?
Click to expand...


I've actually watched many of her Arabic lesson videos. I'm t


montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
Click to expand...


Ya, I know you hate facts, you don't have to tell me. Every time I present you with facts and refute your bullshit lies, you are unable to handle it. I've already lost count on how many times I refuted your crap and made you look like the fool that you are.
But don't get offended, being allergic to the truth and spewing propaganda is all part of being a pro Palestinian.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
Click to expand...


"I have the facts to support what I post, you do not"

Just because you have posted a few facts here and there, it doesn't make up for all the incredible amount of lies you have made. Every time I expose you for the lying propagandist that you are, you resort to lying about me and accusing me of literally exactly what you are guilty of. 
People like you who keep boating about how smart they are and about how many facts they post are the same people who are stupid and post lies.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you use glass pyramids and valve/tube amplification, or are you just a know nothing about true Hi-Fi.   What equalisation do you use, have you got a graphic equaliser. What cut offs does your crossovers have and do you use balanced enclosures.
> 
> I use a pair of ecc 82's in push pull for each channel fed from a tba chip acting as a pre amp, home designed and built . Feeding a stack of 4 speakers fed through a home brew crossover. Turntable mounted of glass pyramids at each corner and a perfect balance on the tone arm. Only two controls on/off switch and  volume, the rest is tailored to my preference and the room.
Click to expand...


We can take this discussion on the Audiokarma site, where I am an active member.  I don't think it is appropriate for this forum.  But, I can tell you are full of shit when you write about "balanced" enclosures.  You must mean ported or acoustic suspension.  I have both, a pair of AR 3s (acoustic suspension) and a pair of JBL L-36s, a pair of big Sansuis with 14 inch woofers and a pair of old Kenwoods all 3 pair ported/ base reflex type speakers.   I really like the ARs but they need to be played very loud to sound right.  I have several integrated amps and a power amp, my favorite is my AU-919 (Sansui) but I do like my tube McIntosh MC 452 which I drive with an AU 7700 as a pre-amp.

I have a TEAC 1250S reel to reel and recently sold my Revox reel to reel as the TEAC does what I need.  I have many turntables.  All Technics direct drives, which I specialize in.  By the way Phoney, I have an MSEE and have been a member of the IEEE for over 30 years, but HiFi is just a hobby, my work is in communications, navigation and surveillance (CNS).  That means radars, approach and landing systems and RF communications.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I have the facts to support what I post, you do not"
> 
> Just because you have posted a few facts here and there, it doesn't make up for all the incredible amount of lies you have made. Every time I expose you for the lying propagandist that you are, you resort to lying about me and accusing me of literally exactly what you are guilty of.
> People like you who keep boating about how smart they are and about how many facts they post are the same people who are stupid and post lies.
Click to expand...


I only post facts.  I think you do not understand what a propagandist is.  A propagandist is someone who promulgates lies.  That is what you do.  I just expose the facts.  I think you believe that anyone that exposes facts that run counter to what you have always believed or want others to believe is a propagandist.  That is not so.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I have the facts to support what I post, you do not"
> 
> Just because you have posted a few facts here and there, it doesn't make up for all the incredible amount of lies you have made. Every time I expose you for the lying propagandist that you are, you resort to lying about me and accusing me of literally exactly what you are guilty of.
> People like you who keep boating about how smart they are and about how many facts they post are the same people who are stupid and post lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post facts.  I think you do not understand what a propagandist is.  A propagandist is someone who promulgates lies.  That is what you do.  I just expose the facts.  I think you believe that anyone that exposes facts that run counter to what you have always believed or want others to believe is a propagandist.  That is not so.
Click to expand...


A propagandist is someone who distorts the truth to promote his agenda. That's EXACTLY what you do. All one has to do is read your posts Monti. No matter how many time you deny it, the fact remains that you are allergic to the truth, a compulsive liar and professional propagandist. Because I have exposed you for who you are, you are getting frustrated and resorting to lying about me


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I have the facts to support what I post, you do not"
> 
> Just because you have posted a few facts here and there, it doesn't make up for all the incredible amount of lies you have made. Every time I expose you for the lying propagandist that you are, you resort to lying about me and accusing me of literally exactly what you are guilty of.
> People like you who keep boating about how smart they are and about how many facts they post are the same people who are stupid and post lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post facts.  I think you do not understand what a propagandist is.  A propagandist is someone who promulgates lies.  That is what you do.  I just expose the facts.  I think you believe that anyone that exposes facts that run counter to what you have always believed or want others to believe is a propagandist.  That is not so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A propagandist is someone who distorts the truth to promote his agenda. That's EXACTLY what you do. All one has to do is read your posts Monti. No matter how many time you deny it, the fact remains that you are allergic to the truth, a compulsive liar and professional propagandist. Because I have exposed you for who you are, you are getting frustrated and resorting to lying about me
Click to expand...


I only post the facts, you flatter yourself if you think you have exposed anything.  There is no frustration on my part, watching you attempt to deny the facts is only depressing, because there are too many people like you.  The truth is based on the facts, which you deny.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "I have the facts to support what I post, you do not"
> 
> Just because you have posted a few facts here and there, it doesn't make up for all the incredible amount of lies you have made. Every time I expose you for the lying propagandist that you are, you resort to lying about me and accusing me of literally exactly what you are guilty of.
> People like you who keep boating about how smart they are and about how many facts they post are the same people who are stupid and post lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post facts.  I think you do not understand what a propagandist is.  A propagandist is someone who promulgates lies.  That is what you do.  I just expose the facts.  I think you believe that anyone that exposes facts that run counter to what you have always believed or want others to believe is a propagandist.  That is not so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A propagandist is someone who distorts the truth to promote his agenda. That's EXACTLY what you do. All one has to do is read your posts Monti. No matter how many time you deny it, the fact remains that you are allergic to the truth, a compulsive liar and professional propagandist. Because I have exposed you for who you are, you are getting frustrated and resorting to lying about me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post the facts, you flatter yourself if you think you have exposed anything.  There is no frustration on my part, watching you attempt to deny the facts is only depressing, because there are too many people like you.  The truth is based on the facts, which you deny.
Click to expand...


Do you know how many times you say "I only post facts" . It shows that you are so self concious over the fact that you are a compulsive liar. It's really funny watching you get so frustrated over the fact that I have exposed you for the propagandist that you are. 
You're obviously angry with me because I have refuted your lies so many times. Haha you're such a little baby.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you use glass pyramids and valve/tube amplification, or are you just a know nothing about true Hi-Fi.   What equalisation do you use, have you got a graphic equaliser. What cut offs does your crossovers have and do you use balanced enclosures.
> 
> I use a pair of ecc 82's in push pull for each channel fed from a tba chip acting as a pre amp, home designed and built . Feeding a stack of 4 speakers fed through a home brew crossover. Turntable mounted of glass pyramids at each corner and a perfect balance on the tone arm. Only two controls on/off switch and  volume, the rest is tailored to my preference and the room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We can take this discussion on the Audiokarma site, where I am an active member.  I don't think it is appropriate for this forum.  But, I can tell you are full of shit when you write about "balanced" enclosures.  You must mean ported or acoustic suspension.  I have both, a pair of AR 3s (acoustic suspension) and a pair of JBL L-36s, a pair of big Sansuis with 14 inch woofers and a pair of old Kenwoods all 3 pair ported/ base reflex type speakers.   I really like the ARs but they need to be played very loud to sound right.  I have several integrated amps and a power amp, my favorite is my AU-919 (Sansui) but I do like my tube McIntosh MC 452 which I drive with an AU 7700 as a pre-amp.
> 
> I have a TEAC 1250S reel to reel and recently sold my Revox reel to reel as the TEAC does what I need.  I have many turntables.  All Technics direct drives, which I specialize in.  By the way Phoney, I have an MSEE and have been a member of the IEEE for over 30 years, but HiFi is just a hobby, my work is in communications, navigation and surveillance (CNS).  That means radars, approach and landing systems and RF communications.
Click to expand...


Fred Monte the mongrel: "Im also a big fan of the Italian soccer team Vaffanculo, by the way did you hear about what those evil Joooooooos are doing in Palestine?"  

What a psycho. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I have the facts to support what I post, you do not"
> 
> Just because you have posted a few facts here and there, it doesn't make up for all the incredible amount of lies you have made. Every time I expose you for the lying propagandist that you are, you resort to lying about me and accusing me of literally exactly what you are guilty of.
> People like you who keep boating about how smart they are and about how many facts they post are the same people who are stupid and post lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post facts.  I think you do not understand what a propagandist is.  A propagandist is someone who promulgates lies.  That is what you do.  I just expose the facts.  I think you believe that anyone that exposes facts that run counter to what you have always believed or want others to believe is a propagandist.  That is not so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A propagandist is someone who distorts the truth to promote his agenda. That's EXACTLY what you do. All one has to do is read your posts Monti. No matter how many time you deny it, the fact remains that you are allergic to the truth, a compulsive liar and professional propagandist. Because I have exposed you for who you are, you are getting frustrated and resorting to lying about me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post the facts, you flatter yourself if you think you have exposed anything.  There is no frustration on my part, watching you attempt to deny the facts is only depressing, because there are too many people like you.  The truth is based on the facts, which you deny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know how many times you say "I only post facts" . It shows that you are so self concious over the fact that you are a compulsive liar. It's really funny watching you get so frustrated over the fact that I have exposed you for the propagandist that you are.
> You're obviously angry with me because I have refuted your lies so many times. Haha you're such a little baby.
Click to expand...


Yup he posts FUCTS, not facts.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is you are too stupid and ignorant to understand the difference of Christians getting killed as a result of collateral damage and Muslim purposely TARGETING Christians because they are not Muslim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe for one minute that the Israelis are not targeting Palestinians because they are Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a deluded Palestinian propagandist and a compulsive liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never lie, I post fact.  You are a deluded, lying, propaganda spewing Zionist ethnic cleansing and genocide supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "I never lie"
> 
> You just lied right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are a bitch, aren't they Toast.  Promoting lies and myths must be difficult, I feel for you.  I have the facts to support what I post, you do not.  It is that simple.
Click to expand...







 You mean facts that you can say support your views until they are shown to say the exact opposite. Then you claim they are Zionist hasbara propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just convert Ruddy,  you are more Jew than Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing that whiny record, Monte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a DJ stylus.  I am into hifi TTs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you use glass pyramids and valve/tube amplification, or are you just a know nothing about true Hi-Fi.   What equalisation do you use, have you got a graphic equaliser. What cut offs does your crossovers have and do you use balanced enclosures.
> 
> I use a pair of ecc 82's in push pull for each channel fed from a tba chip acting as a pre amp, home designed and built . Feeding a stack of 4 speakers fed through a home brew crossover. Turntable mounted of glass pyramids at each corner and a perfect balance on the tone arm. Only two controls on/off switch and  volume, the rest is tailored to my preference and the room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We can take this discussion on the Audiokarma site, where I am an active member.  I don't think it is appropriate for this forum.  But, I can tell you are full of shit when you write about "balanced" enclosures.  You must mean ported or acoustic suspension.  I have both, a pair of AR 3s (acoustic suspension) and a pair of JBL L-36s, a pair of big Sansuis with 14 inch woofers and a pair of old Kenwoods all 3 pair ported/ base reflex type speakers.   I really like the ARs but they need to be played very loud to sound right.  I have several integrated amps and a power amp, my favorite is my AU-919 (Sansui) but I do like my tube McIntosh MC 452 which I drive with an AU 7700 as a pre-amp.
> 
> I have a TEAC 1250S reel to reel and recently sold my Revox reel to reel as the TEAC does what I need.  I have many turntables.  All Technics direct drives, which I specialize in.  By the way Phoney, I have an MSEE and have been a member of the IEEE for over 30 years, but HiFi is just a hobby, my work is in communications, navigation and surveillance (CNS).  That means radars, approach and landing systems and RF communications.
Click to expand...





 Guess what I also do RF communications and build my own transmitter/receivers up to a maximum power of 400 Watts. I am working on the recent cubesat launch of PSK transponders in the UHF range and have designed a low noise receiver for reception of the weak signals. Heavily involved in VLF communications using electrically short antennas.


----------



## montelatici

400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL  

By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.  

A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL







You really do have a problem reading don't you, I wrote transmitter/receivers because that is what they are separate items . No the UHF range as it is not all in one band. No noisy receivers are available of the shelf because they are broadband and so noisy, mine have a noise floor of -60db down on the wanted signal.     Not really as a quarter wave at the usable frequencies is less than 1 mile, and helically wound verticals or dipoles an be made less than 5 metres each leg. Better still is an EH antenna that is short but still electrically full size.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL



Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


----------



## Art__Allm

SAYIT said:


> If the placement of the forgery....



It is idiotic to call dystopian literature a "forgery".

We do not know the author of this dystopian novell (the author had chosen to write it as "protocols"), but he could predict the future.


----------



## SAYIT

Art__Allm said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the placement of the forgery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is idiotic to call dystopian literature a "forgery".
> 
> We do not know the author of this dystopian novell (the author had chosen to write it as "protocols"), but he could predict the future.
Click to expand...


Referring to the Protocols as a forgery is as incorrect as referring to it as a "dystopian novell". It was a fabrication with no basis in fact and as predictive as a comic book.


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL



Here is a reasonably priced consumer model. What is so novel about it?



Pioneer ‑ 700w 5.1‑ch. 4k Ultr...
*$249.99*


----------



## Roudy

Zzzzzzzzz.  That's the general wavelength of Monte's discussions.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a problem reading don't you, I wrote transmitter/receivers because that is what they are separate items . No the UHF range as it is not all in one band. No noisy receivers are available of the shelf because they are broadband and so noisy, mine have a noise floor of -60db down on the wanted signal.     Not really as a quarter wave at the usable frequencies is less than 1 mile, and helically wound verticals or dipoles an be made less than 5 metres each leg. Better still is an EH antenna that is short but still electrically full size.
Click to expand...


A receiver has no output you clown, it is not 400 watt.  The UHF band is a band of frequencies you idiot, above VHF and below SHF.  

You don't even know what the figure of merit is for receivers you fool. -60 dB down means nothing, would be redundant if it meant anything and shows your ignorance and bullshitting.  Receiver performance determined by noise factor, gain and bandwidth.

You idiot by definition a quarter wave antenna for VLF would be a quarter of the length of a full wavelength antenna at the same frequency.  What do you think quarter wave means.  Stop bullshitting, you are embarrassing   yourself.  
Have you been a bullshitter all your life?


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the placement of the forgery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is idiotic to call dystopian literature a "forgery".
> 
> We do not know the author of this dystopian novell (the author had chosen to write it as "protocols"), but he could predict the future.
Click to expand...






Which author as the protocols has had many authors over the years, the original is lost in time, but the Russian intelligence re-wrote the protocols with different people being involved with different chapters.


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the placement of the forgery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is idiotic to call dystopian literature a "forgery".
> 
> We do not know the author of this dystopian novell (the author had chosen to write it as "protocols"), but he could predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which author as the protocols has had many authors over the years, the original is lost in time, but the Russian intelligence re-wrote the protocols with different people being involved with different chapters.
Click to expand...

Much like Zionist Propaganda,so maybe you would know.Boy...but then I dunno,maybe you are just THICK.


----------



## theliq

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Click to expand...

Love it Roudy when your asleep.


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the placement of the forgery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is idiotic to call dystopian literature a "forgery".
> 
> We do not know the author of this dystopian novell (the author had chosen to write it as "protocols"), but he could predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which author as the protocols has had many authors over the years, the original is lost in time, but the Russian intelligence re-wrote the protocols with different people being involved with different chapters.
Click to expand...


Maurice Joly and later Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky chief of the Okhrana


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a problem reading don't you, I wrote transmitter/receivers because that is what they are separate items . No the UHF range as it is not all in one band. No noisy receivers are available of the shelf because they are broadband and so noisy, mine have a noise floor of -60db down on the wanted signal.     Not really as a quarter wave at the usable frequencies is less than 1 mile, and helically wound verticals or dipoles an be made less than 5 metres each leg. Better still is an EH antenna that is short but still electrically full size.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A receiver has no output you clown, it is not 400 watt.  The UHF band is a band of frequencies you idiot, above VHF and below SHF.
> 
> You don't even know what the figure of merit is for receivers you fool. -60 dB down means nothing, would be redundant if it meant anything and shows your ignorance and bullshitting.  Receiver performance determined by noise factor, gain and bandwidth.
> 
> You idiot by definition a quarter wave antenna for VLF would be a quarter of the length of a full wavelength antenna at the same frequency.  What do you think quarter wave means.  Stop bullshitting, you are embarrassing   yourself.
> Have you been a bullshitter all your life?
Click to expand...






Shows you lack of understanding if you don't understand that a receivers sensitivity is related to the level of noise present on weak signals. Say a 600 milliwatt transmitter orbiting the earth at 200 miles up on a frequency of 435mhz using left handed circular polarisation. No good having a receiver that could not resolve the signal because it was below the noise threshold of the receivers circuitry, no amount of amplification would make the signal readable as it would only amplify the noise as well. My design uses band pass, low pass and high pass filters, this results in the 3db passband being -60db down on the resulting slope. Using a mixture of 7 element chebyshev , PI and T  filters to achieve the desired response. The passband is only just wide enough to take into effect the Doppler on the signals as the cubesat travel past its AOS and LOS points. Do not need hi-fi quality sound just intelligible data and let the computer software do the rest.


As for quarter wave antennas the math is simple it is ((frequency/speed of light) x velocity factor)/ 4. So for as frequency of 30mhz  fed via rg58 the length of a quarter wave antenna is 2.4 metres


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the placement of the forgery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is idiotic to call dystopian literature a "forgery".
> 
> We do not know the author of this dystopian novell (the author had chosen to write it as "protocols"), but he could predict the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which author as the protocols has had many authors over the years, the original is lost in time, but the Russian intelligence re-wrote the protocols with different people being involved with different chapters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Much like Zionist Propaganda,so maybe you would know.Boy...but then I dunno,maybe you are just THICK.
Click to expand...






NAH!   I am niether Islamic nor Australian


----------



## Roudy

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Love it Roudy when your asleep.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a problem reading don't you, I wrote transmitter/receivers because that is what they are separate items . No the UHF range as it is not all in one band. No noisy receivers are available of the shelf because they are broadband and so noisy, mine have a noise floor of -60db down on the wanted signal.     Not really as a quarter wave at the usable frequencies is less than 1 mile, and helically wound verticals or dipoles an be made less than 5 metres each leg. Better still is an EH antenna that is short but still electrically full size.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A receiver has no output you clown, it is not 400 watt.  The UHF band is a band of frequencies you idiot, above VHF and below SHF.
> 
> You don't even know what the figure of merit is for receivers you fool. -60 dB down means nothing, would be redundant if it meant anything and shows your ignorance and bullshitting.  Receiver performance determined by noise factor, gain and bandwidth.
> 
> You idiot by definition a quarter wave antenna for VLF would be a quarter of the length of a full wavelength antenna at the same frequency.  What do you think quarter wave means.  Stop bullshitting, you are embarrassing   yourself.
> Have you been a bullshitter all your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows you lack of understanding if you don't understand that a receivers sensitivity is related to the level of noise present on weak signals. Say a 600 milliwatt transmitter orbiting the earth at 200 miles up on a frequency of 435mhz using left handed circular polarisation. No good having a receiver that could not resolve the signal because it was below the noise threshold of the receivers circuitry, no amount of amplification would make the signal readable as it would only amplify the noise as well. My design uses band pass, low pass and high pass filters, this results in the 3db passband being -60db down on the resulting slope. Using a mixture of 7 element chebyshev , PI and T  filters to achieve the desired response. The passband is only just wide enough to take into effect the Doppler on the signals as the cubesat travel past its AOS and LOS points. Do not need hi-fi quality sound just intelligible data and let the computer software do the rest.
> 
> 
> As for quarter wave antennas the math is simple it is ((frequency/speed of light) x velocity factor)/ 4. So for as frequency of 30mhz  fed via rg58 the length of a quarter wave antenna is 2.4 metres
Click to expand...



Oh shut up, You are just making a fool of yourself.  I have an MSEE and have been a member of the IEEE for over 30 years, you are a an idiot.  A quarter wave antenna is one quarter of the full wave length of the frequency in question.  You are writing nonsense that you pull from google searches, but you make no sense.  If you have a band pass filter why would you need a low or high band pass filter you moron.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a problem reading don't you, I wrote transmitter/receivers because that is what they are separate items . No the UHF range as it is not all in one band. No noisy receivers are available of the shelf because they are broadband and so noisy, mine have a noise floor of -60db down on the wanted signal.     Not really as a quarter wave at the usable frequencies is less than 1 mile, and helically wound verticals or dipoles an be made less than 5 metres each leg. Better still is an EH antenna that is short but still electrically full size.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A receiver has no output you clown, it is not 400 watt.  The UHF band is a band of frequencies you idiot, above VHF and below SHF.
> 
> You don't even know what the figure of merit is for receivers you fool. -60 dB down means nothing, would be redundant if it meant anything and shows your ignorance and bullshitting.  Receiver performance determined by noise factor, gain and bandwidth.
> 
> You idiot by definition a quarter wave antenna for VLF would be a quarter of the length of a full wavelength antenna at the same frequency.  What do you think quarter wave means.  Stop bullshitting, you are embarrassing   yourself.
> Have you been a bullshitter all your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows you lack of understanding if you don't understand that a receivers sensitivity is related to the level of noise present on weak signals. Say a 600 milliwatt transmitter orbiting the earth at 200 miles up on a frequency of 435mhz using left handed circular polarisation. No good having a receiver that could not resolve the signal because it was below the noise threshold of the receivers circuitry, no amount of amplification would make the signal readable as it would only amplify the noise as well. My design uses band pass, low pass and high pass filters, this results in the 3db passband being -60db down on the resulting slope. Using a mixture of 7 element chebyshev , PI and T  filters to achieve the desired response. The passband is only just wide enough to take into effect the Doppler on the signals as the cubesat travel past its AOS and LOS points. Do not need hi-fi quality sound just intelligible data and let the computer software do the rest.
> 
> 
> As for quarter wave antennas the math is simple it is ((frequency/speed of light) x velocity factor)/ 4. So for as frequency of 30mhz  fed via rg58 the length of a quarter wave antenna is 2.4 metres
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, You are just making a fool of yourself.  I have an MSEE and have been a member of the IEEE for over 30 years, you are a an idiot.  A quarter wave antenna is one quarter of the full wave length of the frequency in question.  You are writing nonsense that you pull from google searches, but you make no sense.  If you have a band pass filter why would you need a low or high band pass filter you moron.
Click to expand...





Then your training was lacking in the simplest respects, when you design any antenna you must take the velocity factor of the transmission line into account or you will create a mismatch. The finals I use do not like even a 5ohm mismatch so I use L/C networks calculated to match the PA to the line and the line to the antenna. Printed onto copper clad double sided board they are small and lossless.
 To achieve the spot frequency with ultra low noise reception. A band pass filter is inherently broadband and so no use as a low noise reception filter, so couple the 3 together and you get a very narrow pass band with very high attenuation out of the pass band. A minus 60db down at the 3db point of the slope.  Look at the band pass filter plot and you see a medium attack and decay with a medium centre, then look at the low pass and high pass filters and see a fast attack/decay and a flat topped response. Couple all three together and use high stability crystals matched to 1hz in frequency and you get a filter that is less than 5khz wide, ultra low noise and a spot frequency +/- 2.5khz to accommodate any mode of transmission. ( PSK is down to .5khz wide and so I am working on a filter of that order )


----------



## montelatici

Copying sections of application notes and internet RF learning sites and adding some bullshit that together does not make any sense, does not make you any less of a bullshitter.   The only thing worse than a bullshitter is an old bullshitter. You've been bullshitting all your life it seems. The clearest indication of your stupidity (to any EE) is in your statement:

"_A band pass filter is inherently broadband and so no use as a low noise reception filter, so couple the 3 together and you get a very narrow pass band with very high attenuation out of the pass band."_

A band pass filter i*s* the combination of a low pass and high pass filter you idiot.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Copying sections of application notes and internet RF learning sites and adding some bullshit that together does not make any sense, does not make you any less of a bullshitter.   The only thing worse than a bullshitter is an old bullshitter. You've been bullshitting all your life it seems. The clearest indication of your stupidity (to any EE) is in your statement:
> 
> "_A band pass filter is inherently broadband and so no use as a low noise reception filter, so couple the 3 together and you get a very narrow pass band with very high attenuation out of the pass band."_
> 
> A band pass filter i*s* the combination of a low pass and high pass filter you idiot.






 Try again as a band pass filter allows all frequencies over a wide band to pass through. To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency. I am now using digital filters that tailor the response to less than 1hz passband. They do this by converting the signal to digital and then converting back after rework to analogue


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Queen Rania*

**


----------



## montelatici

No, you are a real idiot and continue making a fool of yourself through your bullshitting.  The size of the band that a band pass filter allows to pass is dependent on the low pass filter and high pass filter used.   The low pass filter blocks frequencies that are higher than desired and the high pass filter blocks frequencies that are lower than desired and the combination becomes a band pass filter and the narrowness of the band is dependent upon the frequencies passed by the low and high pass filters. You are so foolish.

You wrote the nonsense below in italics.  

_"To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency."_

The low pass filter blocks the "high side frequencies" (as you call them you moron), it doesn't "let them through" as you claim.  The high pass filter blocks the "low side frequencies" (as you call them)  to pass it doesn't let them through.  The opposite of what you wrote above you idiot. bullshitter. This is not an  I/P discussion where your bullshitting goes unnoticed by most, this is basic RF engineering.

You are such a bullshitter.  Unbelievable that you continue to try to bullshit a professional 

By the way, since you are sampling and digitizing an analog signal, then applying digital filtering then doing a D/A conversion.  I guess you are no longer concerned with data latency.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> No, you are a real idiot and continue making a fool of yourself through your bullshitting.  The size of the band that a band pass filter allows to pass is dependent on the low pass filter and high pass filter used.   The low pass filter blocks frequencies that are higher than desired and the high pass filter blocks frequencies that are lower than desired and the combination becomes a band pass filter and the narrowness of the band is dependent upon the frequencies passed by the low and high pass filters. You are so foolish.
> 
> You wrote the nonsense below in italics.
> 
> _"To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency."_
> 
> The low pass filter blocks the "high side frequencies" (as you call them you moron), it doesn't "let them through" as you claim.  The high pass filter blocks the "low side frequencies" (as you call them)  to pass it doesn't let them through.  The opposite of what you wrote above you idiot. bullshitter. This is not an  I/P discussion where your bullshitting goes unnoticed by most, this is basic RF engineering.
> 
> You are such a bullshitter.  Unbelievable that you continue to try to bullshit a professional
> 
> By the way, since you are sampling and digitizing an analog signal, then applying digital filtering then doing a D/A conversion.  I guess you are no longer concerned with data latency.







Wrong as low pass filters pass frequencies below a set frequency, high pass filters pass frequencies above a set frequency. As an example a 455khz I.F. filter passes only those frequencies centred on 455khz at a set bandwidth. The USB filter passes only those frequencies above where the carrier would be, the opposite is true of a LSB filter. Although I prefer the phasing method to give a cleaner signal.



 Nope why should I be as it is infinitely small.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nathalie Handal *

**


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are a real idiot and continue making a fool of yourself through your bullshitting.  The size of the band that a band pass filter allows to pass is dependent on the low pass filter and high pass filter used.   The low pass filter blocks frequencies that are higher than desired and the high pass filter blocks frequencies that are lower than desired and the combination becomes a band pass filter and the narrowness of the band is dependent upon the frequencies passed by the low and high pass filters. You are so foolish.
> 
> You wrote the nonsense below in italics.
> 
> _"To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency."_
> 
> The low pass filter blocks the "high side frequencies" (as you call them you moron), it doesn't "let them through" as you claim.  The high pass filter blocks the "low side frequencies" (as you call them)  to pass it doesn't let them through.  The opposite of what you wrote above you idiot. bullshitter. This is not an  I/P discussion where your bullshitting goes unnoticed by most, this is basic RF engineering.
> 
> You are such a bullshitter.  Unbelievable that you continue to try to bullshit a professional
> 
> By the way, since you are sampling and digitizing an analog signal, then applying digital filtering then doing a D/A conversion.  I guess you are no longer concerned with data latency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong as low pass filters pass frequencies below a set frequency, high pass filters pass frequencies above a set frequency. As an example a 455khz I.F. filter passes only those frequencies centred on 455khz at a set bandwidth. The USB filter passes only those frequencies above where the carrier would be, the opposite is true of a LSB filter. Although I prefer the phasing method to give a cleaner signal.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope why should I be as it is infinitely small.
Click to expand...


You are nuts.   You throw in IF (intermediate frequency) filter, which makes no sense.  An RF filter is band pass, low pass, high pass or band stop.  Then you try to introduce USB (upper side band) and LSB (lower side band) into the discussion which again has nothing to do with digitizing an analog signal.   

You corrected your earlier mistake which is depicted below and then you add more bullshit that has nothing to do with the issue. 

You originally wrote:

*"a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through"
*
Now you write:
*
"low pass filters pass frequencies below a set frequency"*

Your complete earlier nonsensical statement complete:

"_To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency."
_
You are unbelievable. But thanks for demonstrating how your bullshitting style works.  It's the same when you write about the I/P issue.  Only here, I do RF engineering professionally so stop trying to bullshit me.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are a real idiot and continue making a fool of yourself through your bullshitting.  The size of the band that a band pass filter allows to pass is dependent on the low pass filter and high pass filter used.   The low pass filter blocks frequencies that are higher than desired and the high pass filter blocks frequencies that are lower than desired and the combination becomes a band pass filter and the narrowness of the band is dependent upon the frequencies passed by the low and high pass filters. You are so foolish.
> 
> You wrote the nonsense below in italics.
> 
> _"To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency."_
> 
> The low pass filter blocks the "high side frequencies" (as you call them you moron), it doesn't "let them through" as you claim.  The high pass filter blocks the "low side frequencies" (as you call them)  to pass it doesn't let them through.  The opposite of what you wrote above you idiot. bullshitter. This is not an  I/P discussion where your bullshitting goes unnoticed by most, this is basic RF engineering.
> 
> You are such a bullshitter.  Unbelievable that you continue to try to bullshit a professional
> 
> By the way, since you are sampling and digitizing an analog signal, then applying digital filtering then doing a D/A conversion.  I guess you are no longer concerned with data latency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong as low pass filters pass frequencies below a set frequency, high pass filters pass frequencies above a set frequency. As an example a 455khz I.F. filter passes only those frequencies centred on 455khz at a set bandwidth. The USB filter passes only those frequencies above where the carrier would be, the opposite is true of a LSB filter. Although I prefer the phasing method to give a cleaner signal.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope why should I be as it is infinitely small.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are nuts.   You throw in IF (intermediate frequency) filter, which makes no sense.  An RF filter is band pass, low pass, high pass or band stop.  Then you try to introduce USB (upper side band) and LSB (lower side band) into the discussion which again has nothing to do with digitizing an analog signal.
> 
> You corrected your earlier mistake which is depicted below and then you add more bullshit that has nothing to do with the issue.
> 
> You originally wrote:
> 
> *"a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through"
> *
> Now you write:
> *
> "low pass filters pass frequencies below a set frequency"*
> 
> Your complete earlier nonsensical statement complete:
> 
> "_To achieve a narrow pass band you need to combine a low pass filter to let the high side frequencies through, a high pass filter to allow the low side frequencies through and a central band pass filter to steepen the slope and cut of at a preset frequency."
> _
> You are unbelievable. But thanks for demonstrating how your bullshitting style works.  It's the same when you write about the I/P issue.  Only here, I do RF engineering professionally so stop trying to bullshit me.
Click to expand...







 So how would you go about achieving a 2khz wide filter to remove noise and adjacent signals that are stronger than the signal you want to process


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Salam Kanaan*

**
*Her video.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rami George Khouri*


----------



## Mindful

*Hamas seeks to stamp out Isis in Gaza.*

*http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7d6c49d0-0547-11e5-9627-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bovyMMoM*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Laila El Haddad *


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Laila El Haddad *







AND ! ! ! ! !


----------



## Challenger

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
Click to expand...

 Read the title of the thread, moron.


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the title of the thread, moron.
Click to expand...






AND ! ! !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
Click to expand...

A Palestinian from Gaza who is not a terrorist.

This flies in the face of Israel's bullshit.


----------



## Challenger

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the title of the thread, moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! !
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Palestinian from Gaza who is not a terrorist.
> 
> This flies in the face of Israel's bullshit.
Click to expand...





 How do you know she is not a terrorist, have you proof that is unquestionable ?


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the title of the thread, moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...





Just like dildo no answers to the reality of the situation so you resort to childishness. Must be a trait as Milliband now does it all the time


----------



## Challenger

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the title of the thread, moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like dildo no answers to the reality of the situation so you resort to childishness. Must be a trait as Milliband now does it all the time
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila El Haddad *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Palestinian from Gaza who is not a terrorist.
> 
> This flies in the face of Israel's bullshit.
Click to expand...


When did Israel say that all Gazans are terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians

Ali Abunimah


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Marah Zahalka*

**


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?


Who are the Jews really??????


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
Click to expand...






 The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Palestine Festival of Literature*


----------



## 50_RiaL

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


An hyperbolic statement by an academic and this poster makes like chicken little.  Guy, get a grip.


----------



## 50_RiaL

Ball liqer writes:
Who are the Jews really??????

Better yet, who are the Australians?

"_Between 1788 and 1868, approximately 162,000 convicts were transported to the various Australian penal colonies by the British government._

"_n 1787 the First Fleet of eleven convict ships set sail for Botany Bay, arriving on 20 January 1788 to found Sydney, the first European settlement in Australia.

"Approximately 20% of modern Australians are descended from transported convicts."_


----------



## theliq

50_RiaL said:


> Ball liqer writes:
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Better yet, who are the Australians?
> 
> "_Between 1788 and 1868, approximately 162,000 convicts were transported to the various Australian penal colonies by the British government._
> 
> "_n 1787 the First Fleet of eleven convict ships set sail for Botany Bay, arriving on 20 January 1788 to found Sydney, the first European settlement in Australia.
> 
> "Approximately 20% of modern Australians are descended from transported convicts."_


I LOVE these posts from the IGNORANT...but let me continue to blow this CRETINS summation (AND OPINION) out of the water.

The reason "Convicts were transported to Australia" is that the Brits were unable to send them to the ORIGINAL place of where these "TRANSPORTS/CONVICTS previously went to ...wait for it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AMERICA>>>>>>>>>>>>>YOU DUMB ASS.

Not all of Australia received convicts but who cares anyway.....Haven't we done well FREE MEDICAL BENIFITS,FREE SCHOOLING,CHEAP PHARMICUTICAL PRODUCT.....ONE THIRD THE PRICE THAN AMERICANS PAY(DUMB ASS),UNEMPLOYMENT PAYMENTS,FREE CHILD CARE SCHOOLING AND MEDICAL,STRONG ECOMONY(SKIRTED THE WFC).....AGED PENSIONS......ALL THE US DOES NOT HAVE.....WHAT DOES "MODERN AUSTRALIANS MEAN ?" DUMB ASS ........................CLEAN CITIES,ANYONE CAN GO TO UNIVERSITY..........poor old rial spends his his days sucking himself off......when your ready rial.....let the fight begin.......WE NEVER TAKE A BACKWARDS STEP

With all the money the Americans have made you have nothing to show for it,for the American people........Where did all the CASH GO ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? that's right $67 Trillon of Tax Payers money to Israel...yet those Taxpayers have to drive to CANADA to afford their medicines...................Give me Convicts anytime,now take your head out of your Ass pal.Australian GREAT ONE DAY...PERFECT THE NEXT...you were sayin......$#^%*&! that's right...GOT IT IN ONE>>>BULLSHIT


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
Click to expand...

You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> 50_RiaL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ball liqer writes:
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Better yet, who are the Australians?
> 
> "_Between 1788 and 1868, approximately 162,000 convicts were transported to the various Australian penal colonies by the British government._
> 
> "_n 1787 the First Fleet of eleven convict ships set sail for Botany Bay, arriving on 20 January 1788 to found Sydney, the first European settlement in Australia.
> 
> "Approximately 20% of modern Australians are descended from transported convicts."_
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE these posts from the IGNORANT...but let me continue to blow this CRETINS summation (AND OPINION) out of the water.
> 
> The reason "Convicts were transported to Australia" is that the Brits were unable to send them to the ORIGINAL place of where these "TRANSPORTS/CONVICTS previously went to ...wait for it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AMERICA>>>>>>>>>>>>>YOU DUMB ASS.
> 
> Not all of Australia received convicts but who cares anyway.....Haven't we done well FREE MEDICAL BENIFITS,FREE SCHOOLING,CHEAP PHARMICUTICAL PRODUCT.....ONE THIRD THE PRICE THAN AMERICANS PAY(DUMB ASS),UNEMPLOYMENT PAYMENTS,FREE CHILD CARE SCHOOLING AND MEDICAL,STRONG ECOMONY(SKIRTED THE WFC).....AGED PENSIONS......ALL THE US DOES NOT HAVE.....WHAT DOES "MODERN AUSTRALIANS MEAN ?" DUMB ASS ........................CLEAN CITIES,ANYONE CAN GO TO UNIVERSITY..........poor old rial spends his his days sucking himself off......when your ready rial.....let the fight begin.......WE NEVER TAKE A BACKWARDS STEP
> 
> With all the money the Americans have made you have nothing to show for it,for the American people........Where did all the CASH GO ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? that's right $67 Trillon of Tax Payers money to Israel...yet those Taxpayers have to drive to CANADA to afford their medicines...................Give me Convicts anytime,now take your head out of your Ass pal.Australian GREAT ONE DAY...PERFECT THE NEXT...you were sayin......$#^%*&! that's right...GOT IT IN ONE>>>BULLSHIT
Click to expand...






 Do you have a link to substantiate your $67 trillion claims.  Ever thought that the drugs in Canada could be cheaper because they are inferior quality.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
Click to expand...





 Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
Click to expand...


Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
Click to expand...






Are you calling the liq a clown, I wonder how he will take that......................


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Palestine Festival of Literature held in Gaza Strip *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## toastman

Who are the Palestinians? A thorn in the worlds' side.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
Click to expand...


I've been asking you the same question for months now.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Challenger

toastman said:


> Who are the Palestinians? A thorn in the worlds' side.


Nope, that's Zionist Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians? A thorn in the worlds' side.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, that's Zionist Israel.
Click to expand...





 More RACISM rat boy when you know you are using Zionist as a racist term, much as your type used palestinain as a racist term before 1960.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
Click to expand...


I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
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> Phoenall said:
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> theliq said:
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> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> 
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
Click to expand...




Is that why you stop using it once it is shown to go against the cherry picked parts of your links


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## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why you stop using it once it is shown to go against the cherry picked parts of your links
Click to expand...


Why do you continue to make things up.  Documented facts are documented facts, there is no "cherry picking" necessary.  You should try basing at least some of your posts on facts.


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> montelatici said:
> 
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why you stop using it once it is shown to go against the cherry picked parts of your links
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you continue to make things up.  Documented facts are documented facts, there is no "cherry picking" necessary.  You should try basing at least some of your posts on facts.
Click to expand...




 I have just destroyed one of your cherry picked reports by giving the previous paragraph and subsequent paragraphs that together destroy your whole set of claims. Another link you wont be using ever again as it says the opposite to what you claim.


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## montelatici

The previous paragraph just confirmed the fact that the British understood that they contravened the terms of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Thanks.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The previous paragraph just confirmed the fact that the British understood that they contravened the terms of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Thanks.






Do you mean where it says that article 22 does not apply to Palestine intentionally ?


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The previous paragraph just confirmed the fact that the British understood that they contravened the terms of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean where it says that article 22 does not apply to Palestine intentionally ?
Click to expand...


Yes, where they say they intended to contravene Article 22 with respect to Palestine because of an earlier commitment which contravened yet another article of the Covenant:

*"ARTICLE 20.*
The Members of the League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof.

In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations."


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The previous paragraph just confirmed the fact that the British understood that they contravened the terms of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean where it says that article 22 does not apply to Palestine intentionally ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, where they say they intended to contravene Article 22 with respect to Palestine because of an earlier commitment which contravened yet another article of the Covenant:
> 
> *"ARTICLE 20.*
> The Members of the League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof.
> 
> In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations."
Click to expand...








From your own link that you relied on just yesterday we see this that proves you are bullshitting with arab muslim propaganda

 177. As to the claim that the Palestine Mandate violates Article 22 of the Covenant because the community of Palestine has not been recognized as an independent nation and because the mandatory was given full powers of legislation and administration, it has been rightly pointed out by the Peel Commission:" (a) *That the provisional recognition of certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire as independent nations is permissible; the words are can be provisionally recognized, not 'will' or 'shall';*

" _(b)_ That the penultimate paragraph of Article 22 *prescribes that the degree of authority to be exercised by the mandatory shall be defined, at need, by the Council of the League;
*
" (c) *That the acceptance by the Allied Powers and the United States of the policy of the Ball-four Declaration made it clear from the beginning that Palestine would have been treated differently from Syria and Iraq, and that this difference of treatment was confirmed by the Supreme Council in the Treaty of Sevres and by the Council of the League in sanctioning the Mandate."154/

A 364 of 3 September 1947*


----------



## montelatici

Phoney, are you really that damn stupid?  The Covenant articles 20 and 22 were contravened with respect to Palestine and the Palestinian people.  It doesn't matter how it was justified.  

The Covenant did not exclude Palestine in Article 22, nor did it provide for an exception for Britain with respect to Article 20.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original Palestinians so called by the Romans in 70 C.E., later taken up by the muslims from the 7C as a profanity. Much the same as Zionist is used today..............
> 
> 
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
Click to expand...


I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it. 
You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
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> 
> 
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> You time line is somewhat Fcuked......AS USUAL...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
Click to expand...


No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.  

You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.

Warsaw Ghetto:






Gaza:






Where would you rather be?


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
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> montelatici said:
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
Click to expand...


Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti  

Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here. 

Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
Click to expand...


Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
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> 
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> 
> montelatici said:
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
Click to expand...


That's not what I was talking about.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not what I was talking about.
Click to expand...


Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not what I was talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
Click to expand...


I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.


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## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not what I was talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
Click to expand...


Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not what I was talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
Click to expand...


IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.

You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what I was talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
> 
> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
Click to expand...


Of course, there is no difference.


----------



## toastman

During the next year and a half, thousands of Polish Jews as well as some Romani people from smaller cities and the countryside were brought into the Ghetto, while diseases (especially typhus),[13] and starvation kept the inhabitants at about the same number. Average food rations in 1941 for Jews in Warsaw were limited to 184 calories, compared to 699 calories for gentile Poles and 2,613 calories for Germans.[14]

Unemployment was a major problem in the ghetto. Illegal workshops were created to manufacture goods to be sold illegally on the outside and raw goods were smuggled in, often by children. Hundreds of four- to eight-year-old Jewish children went across en masse to the "Aryan side," sometimes several times a day, smuggling food into the ghettos, returning with goods that often weighed more than they did. Smuggling was often the only source of subsistence for Ghetto inhabitants, who would otherwise have died of starvation.


Despite the grave hardships, life in the Warsaw Ghetto was rich with educational and cultural activities, conducted by its underground organizations. Hospitals, public soup kitchens, orphanages, refugee centers and recreation facilities were formed, as well as a school system. Some schools were illegal and operated under the guise of a soup kitchen. There were secret libraries, classes for the children and even a symphony orchestra. Rabbi Alexander Zusia Friedman, secretary-general of Agudath Israel of Poland, was one of the Torah leaders in the Warsaw Ghetto. He organized an underground network of religious schools, including "a Yesodei HaTorah school for boys, a Bais Yaakov school for girls, a school for elementary Jewish instruction, and three institutions for advanced Jewish studies". These schools, operating under the guise of kindergartens, medical centers and soup kitchens, were a place of refuge for thousands of children and teens, and hundreds of teachers. In 1941, when the Germans gave official permission to the local Judenrat to open schools, these schools came out of hiding and began receiving financial support from the official Jewish community.[15]

Over 100,000 of the Ghetto's residents died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began massive deportations of the inhabitants from the Ghetto's _Umschlagplatz_ to the Treblinka extermination camp during theGrossaktion Warschau, part of the countrywide Operation Reinhard. Between _Tisha B'Av_ (July 23) and _Yom Kippur_ (September 21) of 1942, about 254,000 Ghetto residents (or at least 300,000 by different accounts)[7] were sent to Treblinka and murdered there.[16]

Friedman alerted world Jewry to the start of deportations from the Warsaw Ghetto in a coded message. His telegram read: "Mr. Amos kept his promise from the fifth-third." He was referring to the Book of Amos, chapter 5, verse 3, which reads: "The city that goes out a thousand strong will have a hundred left, and the one that goes out a hundred strong will have ten left to the House of Israel".[17]

Polish resistance officer Jan Karski reported to the Western governments in 1942 on the situation in the Ghetto and on the extermination camps. By the end of 1942, it was clear that the deportations were to their deaths, and many of the remaining Jews decided to fight.[7]

For years, Ghetto residents in the group _Oyneg Shabbos_ had discreetly chronicled conditions and hid their photos, writings, and short films in improvised time capsules; their activity increased after learning that transports to "resettlement" actually led to the mass killings. In May 1942, Germans began filming a propaganda movie titled "_Das Ghetto_" which was never completed. Footage is shown in the 2010 documentary calledrrounded y "A Film Unfinished" which concerns the making of "_Das Ghetto_" and correlates scenes from 'Das Ghetto' with descriptions of the filming of these scenes that Czerniakow mentions in his diary.



100,00 Jew died of starvation because of disease and hunger. Thousands were deported to extermination camps. They were surrounded by Nazi soldiers who would regularly walk up to Jews and torture,kill them.


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## toastman

montelatici said:


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> That's not what I was talking about.
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> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
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> 
> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
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> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
> 
> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> Of course, there is no difference.
Click to expand...


You need to go get a high school education at the very least before you post as you clearly lack any brains.
Keep making a fool of yourself.


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## theliq

toastman said:


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> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
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> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
> 
> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> Of course, there is no difference.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> You need to go get a high school education at the very least before you post as you clearly lack any brains.
> Keep making a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...

!!!!!!WHAT!!!!!!!!


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## montelatici

toastman said:


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> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
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> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
> 
> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Of course, there is no difference.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> You need to go get a high school education at the very least before you post as you clearly lack any brains.
> Keep making a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...


Toast, I have an MSEE.   I run a company now as a CEO.  You really don't believe what you post, do you.


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## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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> toastman said:
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> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
> 
> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is no difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to go get a high school education at the very least before you post as you clearly lack any brains.
> Keep making a fool of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toast, I have an MSEE.   I run a company now as a CEO.  You really don't believe what you post, do you.
Click to expand...


Haha sure you do Monti, sure you do. You can be whatever you want behind that computer screen of yours. 

There is no way someone as dumb as you has anything more than a high school education, if that.


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## theliq

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
> 
> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is no difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to go get a high school education at the very least before you post as you clearly lack any brains.
> Keep making a fool of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toast, I have an MSEE.   I run a company now as a CEO.  You really don't believe what you post, do you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha sure you do Monti, sure you do. You can be whatever you want behind that computer screen of yours.
> 
> There is no way someone as dumb as you has anything more than a high school education, if that.
Click to expand...

I disagree Toastie,you accused me of much the same,yet I employ over 300 team members........you should not diss folk so quickly.When you are speaking from a position of Assumption.


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## toastman

theliq said:


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> IF you need to ask what the difference is, you have serious mental issues. Worse than I thought.
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> You are a piece of shit for comparing the two.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there is no difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to go get a high school education at the very least before you post as you clearly lack any brains.
> Keep making a fool of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toast, I have an MSEE.   I run a company now as a CEO.  You really don't believe what you post, do you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha sure you do Monti, sure you do. You can be whatever you want behind that computer screen of yours.
> 
> There is no way someone as dumb as you has anything more than a high school education, if that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree Toastie,you accused me of much the same,yet I employ over 300 team members........you should not diss folk so quickly.
Click to expand...

 
I never said anything about you like that.


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## Hossfly

montelatici said:


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> Phoenall said:
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> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
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> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
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> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Gaza:
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> Where would you rather be?
Click to expand...

Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.


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## theliq

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
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> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
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> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
Click to expand...

Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoney, are you really that damn stupid?  The Covenant articles 20 and 22 were contravened with respect to Palestine and the Palestinian people.  It doesn't matter how it was justified.
> 
> The Covenant did not exclude Palestine in Article 22, nor did it provide for an exception for Britain with respect to Article 20.


No but you are when you deny the words from the link you give the coard that shows the LoN deliberately left out Palestine as it was destined for the Jews national home.

Here it is again

*OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY*

177. As to the claim that the Palestine Mandate violates Article 22 of the Covenant because the community of Palestine has not been recognized as an independent nation and because the mandatory was given full powers of legislation and administration, it has been rightly pointed out by the Peel Commission:" *(a) That the provisional recognition of certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire as independent nations is permissible; the words are can be provisionally recognized, not 'will' or 'shall';*

* " (b) That the penultimate paragraph of Article 22 prescribes that the degree of authority to be exercised by the mandatory shall be defined, at need, by the Council of the League;
" (c) That the acceptance by the Allied Powers and the United States of the policy of the Ball-four Declaration made it clear from the beginning that Palestine would have been treated differently from Syria and Iraq, and that this difference of treatment was confirmed by the Supreme Council in the Treaty of Sevres and by the Council of the League in sanctioning the Mandate."154/*


 Your source freddy boy are you going to say that this is hasbara, or are you going to keep saying that it was a lie. Either way it calls into question your use of links for this board, and shows that you are cherry picking the parts you want that meet with your RACIST POV.


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> Nope it is substantiated by historical records and links provided by team Palestine.   Keep trying one day you might get it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly bullshit and lie?  Of course it is fact and is substantiated. Clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
Click to expand...





Top one as the place is kept clean and tidy, the animals in gaza show they have no pride or link to where they live and will exist in squalor. Lazy, unclean, barbaric and self inflicted deprivation is all they want, just islamomoron propaganda


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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> toastman said:
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> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
Click to expand...




 You want the facts do you then try this. The gazans brought it on themselves by allowing hamas to fire illegal weapons from civilian areas when 50% of gaza is rural land. Then they just leave the mess where it falls attracting vermin and disease, using the ruins as toilets adding to the problem. They then tout the squalor as propaganda blaming it on the Jews when even a blind man can see that they are not bothered about anything but squeezing another few pennies out of morons like you who are taken in by the Palestinians constant whining and bleating.


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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> toastman said:
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> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not what I was talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, just some other fact you can't digest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm talking about your dumbass comparison you idiot. You are simply a deluded propagandist. No amount of denial will change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides the  location, what is the difference in dynamics between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza?  A place full of people surrounded by a very powerful military that routinely kills hundreds and even thousands of the people in the enclave.
Click to expand...





 The difference freddy boy is that unlike your fellow Catholics who mass murdered unarmed men, women and children in the ghetto's without any provocation the Israelis hold back for months until the murders of children and the illegal rockets are at a point that world opinion demands Israel takes action, so they respond with minimal fire power and destroy all the illegal weapon sites. The Palestinians then claim that Israel have started a war and killed thousands of civilians. The truth is the Palestinians provoked a response that resulted in wide spread devastation and deaths AND IT IS ALL THE FAULT OF THE PALESTINIANS FOR ALLOWING THE ILLEGAL WEAPONS


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## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
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> montelatici said:
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> toastman said:
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been asking you the same question for months now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
Click to expand...




 The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.


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## Phoenall

PROOF


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> toastman said:
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> toastman said:
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> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want the facts do you then try this. The gazans brought it on themselves by allowing hamas to fire illegal weapons from civilian areas when 50% of gaza is rural land. Then they just leave the mess where it falls attracting vermin and disease, using the ruins as toilets adding to the problem. They then tout the squalor as propaganda blaming it on the Jews when even a blind man can see that they are not bothered about anything but squeezing another few pennies out of morons like you who are taken in by the Palestinians constant whining and bleating.
Click to expand...

Holy Israeli bullshit, Batman!


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want the facts do you then try this. The gazans brought it on themselves by allowing hamas to fire illegal weapons from civilian areas when 50% of gaza is rural land. Then they just leave the mess where it falls attracting vermin and disease, using the ruins as toilets adding to the problem. They then tout the squalor as propaganda blaming it on the Jews when even a blind man can see that they are not bothered about anything but squeezing another few pennies out of morons like you who are taken in by the Palestinians constant whining and bleating.
Click to expand...

Yeah,funny how you never mention that it was the Israelis and Americans that originally promoted,armed and threw bucket loads of money to Hamas,really you must think I am stupid............fcuk you are such an annoying lying little prick..............most of my Jewish friends just Gasp when I show them your inaccurate rantings.


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I only post documented fact Toast.  Projecting doesn't make your case.  But, I have come to realize that you believe that exposing facts which don't correspond to the mythology you believe, is propagandizing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
Click to expand...

Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......

You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want the facts do you then try this. The gazans brought it on themselves by allowing hamas to fire illegal weapons from civilian areas when 50% of gaza is rural land. Then they just leave the mess where it falls attracting vermin and disease, using the ruins as toilets adding to the problem. They then tout the squalor as propaganda blaming it on the Jews when even a blind man can see that they are not bothered about anything but squeezing another few pennies out of morons like you who are taken in by the Palestinians constant whining and bleating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy Israeli bullshit, Batman!
Click to expand...






 You don't like the truth do you................


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, posting two pictures sure proves your point Monti
> 
> Think about what you are saying Monti. Try and get past the Palestinian propaganda that poisons your demented brain, and think about what you are saying here.
> 
> Like I have said before, your stupidity and your propaganda know no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the propaganda?  Do you actually know what it is?  I don't think you do.  The fact is Israelis bombed the crap out of Gaza and killed thousands of civilians, including 500 children.  That's just fact, not propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want the facts do you then try this. The gazans brought it on themselves by allowing hamas to fire illegal weapons from civilian areas when 50% of gaza is rural land. Then they just leave the mess where it falls attracting vermin and disease, using the ruins as toilets adding to the problem. They then tout the squalor as propaganda blaming it on the Jews when even a blind man can see that they are not bothered about anything but squeezing another few pennies out of morons like you who are taken in by the Palestinians constant whining and bleating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah,funny how you never mention that it was the Israelis and Americans that originally promoted,armed and threw bucket loads of money to Hamas,really you must think I am stupid............fcuk you are such an annoying lying little prick..............most of my Jewish friends just Gasp when I show them your inaccurate rantings.
Click to expand...





Why should I as you never fail to remind everyone of this. But you can bet that they wont do it again .  Ever thought they could be amazed that a Gentile would be so knowing of their suffering and the don't want to upset you by telling you they know the same things


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
Click to expand...





 Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.

 Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.

 What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................


----------



## Hossfly

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you are unable to accept the fact that you are nothing but a lying propagandist, but constantly denying it and deflecting by making up lies about me isn't going to change anything. I am simply calling it as I, and everyone else sees it.
> You are the same deluded moron that compares Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto to Palestinians living in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
Click to expand...

You don't have to be so gentle with Phoenall, Stevie. He's not sick or anything.


----------



## Challenger

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't have to be so gentle with Phoenall, Stevie. He's not sick or anything.
Click to expand...






 I m but unlike the islamonazi's and team palestine I don't whinge and whine about everything. I just get on with life


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...







 Once again the truth has you stumped and so you go into another of your childish meltdowns


----------



## Challenger

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again the truth has you stumped and so you go into another of your childish meltdowns
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
Click to expand...

they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year​
Were they under blockade?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year​
> Were they under blockade?
Click to expand...





Where the Jews in Warsaw ?, how can everyone else in similar circumstances still rise above the squalor but the muslims. You can see it in the west when they establish enclaves and the areas go rapidly downhill.


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinian terrorism is ultimately a conscious and current expression of primal blood sacrifice, the blood of "The Jews."  For these terrorists, violence against "The Jews" is always an expression of what must be held sacred.

Speaking to Palestinian security forces in Gaza two years ago (2001), Yasser Arafat remarked: *_*"They will fight for Allah, and they will kill and be killed, and this is a solemn oath....Our blood is cheap compared with the cause which has brought us together....but shortly we will meet again in heaven...."*_* Central to this revealing remark is the duality of sacrificial behavior; the fighters "will kill and be killed....." Victory for the Palestinian people will come when both the Jews and the Arab "martyrs" suffer death. But while death for "The Jews" will be final and unheroic, a tangible confirmation of inherent Jewish limitations, death for the Palestinians will be only a temporary inconvenience on the way to *_*immortality.*_* 

Significantly, it is only by killing Jews, and subsequently being killed by Jews, that authentic freedom from death can be realized. This is the true meaning of Islamic terrorism against Israel; the "bottom line" rationale. It is a form of sacred violence oriented toward the sacrifice of both enemies and martyrs. Always, it is through the purposeful killing of Jews, that the Palestinian embarked upon jihad can buy himself free from the penalty of dying.

That is no small reward.

For Israel's Palestinian "partners in peace," terrorism is a form of blood sacrifice. It will not cease in response to any further Israeli "redeployments" urged by the Road Map. It will assuredly not end if a Palestinian state is declared in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. It will end only when the doctrinally despised Jew has left every inch of "Palestine," which includes the entire State of Israel, or when Israel finally learns how to combat the very considerable attractions of "blood sacrifice."

Blood Sacrifice Understanding Palestinian Terror Violence Against Israel Louis Ren Beres



*


----------



## montelatici

Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to lie about you or your Zionutter friends. Your constant posting of Zionist propaganda proves the point.
> 
> You cannot find one lie, because when I post text from official documents the text is fact.
> 
> Warsaw Ghetto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where would you rather be?
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
Click to expand...

London,NO WAY most of that city is a DUMP...........I live in Mullaloo,Western Australia on the beach.....BEAUTIFUL ONE DAY,BRILLIANT THE NEXT

I leave the London BISSO to you....North Londonite


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?







 It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
 Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't the people of Gaza picking up that rubble and trash? Do they enjoy living in squalor? The difference in the two pictures is the Jews were prisoners but they had pride and self-respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Hoss,the Jews were totally traumatised and knew their fate.........both peoples had/have pride and self-respect...........to try to assume one side or the other were somehow better than the other....in this/these situations is pretty crass of you..........you really should know better. your friend steve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures show that even facing certain death the Jews had pride and kept the place clean and tidy. The Palestinians just exist in squalor and make no efforts to tidy the place up, doing so would destroy the propaganda value of such pictiures. Look at the Jews half starved yet still proud, then look at the Palestinians well fed and slovenly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somehow it looks as if Gaza has just been BOMBED but to a snake like you,it makes no difference.....You are a sick Jewish Bastard,trying to somehow(in YOUR PEANUT BRAIN) to make profit out of the disgusting situation of both peoples in both photographs......
> 
> You really are a SICKO BASTARDO........now get fcuked you North London piece of SHIT to Jews and Palestinians..........you are mentally and sexually inadequate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbo most of England looked like that in the 1940's, and the people set to with relish to clean up after the raids, they did not let the weeds grow wild for nearly a year and complain about not getting any money to buy weapons with.
> 
> Can always tell when an islamonazi scumbag is getting upset over facts they make glaring mistakes and try and alter other peoples religion and place of residence. I believe you live in some London cellar where you sit on a bucket and tap away on your keyboard all day what the imam is telling you to post.
> 
> What islamonazi propaganda will you post tomorrow after Friday prayers...................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> London,NO WAY most of that city is a DUMP...........I live in Mullaloo,Western Australia on the beach.....BEAUTIFUL ONE DAY,BRILLIANT THE NEXT
> 
> I leave the London BISSO to you....North Londonite
Click to expand...





 What a moron even after posting where I live you still insist I live in London, I would not be paid to live in that hellhole.  You on the other hand exist in a fantasy world when the reality is you live in a cellar in Tower Hamlets and pimp yourself to the local imam


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
Click to expand...

Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.
Click to expand...





 Do you have one that shows it is not true ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have one that shows it is not true ?
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have one that shows it is not true ?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






 Forced to read the script or face having to watch their family brutalised. All came out when Jews escaped the clutches of the islamonazi's


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## montelatici

Christians disagree with you Phoney.

LIEUTENANCY OF ENGLAND AND WALES


*THE ORDER OF THE **SEPULCHRE*


"....Christian Palestinians to start a new life abroad. And they do – not necessarily because they want to, but *because the discrimination, political uncertainty and poor job prospects inherent in the Occupation* mean that their chances of bettering themselves are greater abroad than at home."

Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories 2014


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Christians disagree with you Phoney.
> 
> LIEUTENANCY OF ENGLAND AND WALES
> 
> 
> *THE ORDER OF THE **SEPULCHRE*
> 
> 
> "....Christian Palestinians to start a new life abroad. And they do – not necessarily because they want to, but *because the discrimination, political uncertainty and poor job prospects inherent in the Occupation* mean that their chances of bettering themselves are greater abroad than at home."
> 
> Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories 2014






Some right wing wannabee catholic crusader outfit that is anti Jew by command of the pope. What a LYING LOSER you are


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
Click to expand...

...the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians.​
Every report I have seen about that is from a source connected to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have one that shows it is not true ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forced to read the script or face having to watch their family brutalised. All came out when Jews escaped the clutches of the islamonazi's
Click to expand...

Two of the most widely known and respected Palestinians who support Palestine are Edward Said and Hannon Ashrawi. Both Christians. Why would they support a place that persecutes Christians?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians.​
> Every report I have seen about that is from a source connected to Israel.
Click to expand...





 And I have seen reports connected to Christians who have escaped the clutches of hamas and fatah


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have one that shows it is not true ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forced to read the script or face having to watch their family brutalised. All came out when Jews escaped the clutches of the islamonazi's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two of the most widely known and respected Palestinians who support Palestine are Edward Said and Hannon Ashrawi. Both Christians. Why would they support a place that persecutes Christians?
Click to expand...





 Because it is not the place but the arab muslims that are the problem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians.​
> Every report I have seen about that is from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have seen reports connected to Christians who have escaped the clutches of hamas and fatah
Click to expand...

I notice that you did not post them.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians.​
> Every report I have seen about that is from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have seen reports connected to Christians who have escaped the clutches of hamas and fatah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice that you did not post them.
Click to expand...





 I have posted them many times in the past, and you like a stuck record just keep asking for them. They never change, just like the mandate of Palestine never changes


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Europeans decide to colonize a place that had such terrible people? Did they think they would able to eliminate every last one of them, Muslims and Christians alike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians.​
> Every report I have seen about that is from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have seen reports connected to Christians who have escaped the clutches of hamas and fatah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice that you did not post them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted them many times in the past, and you like a stuck record just keep asking for them. They never change, just like the mandate of Palestine never changes
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, same old duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have an "unbiased reliable source" that is not linked to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have one that shows it is not true ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forced to read the script or face having to watch their family brutalised. All came out when Jews escaped the clutches of the islamonazi's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two of the most widely known and respected Palestinians who support Palestine are Edward Said and Hannon Ashrawi. Both Christians. Why would they support a place that persecutes Christians?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it is not the place but the arab muslims that are the problem
Click to expand...

Link.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that all the evidence from unbiased reliable sources are saying that the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians. With a reported decline in numbers of 90%.
> Why did the arab muslims who had ran away from Palestine 3 times when given the chance to colonise under the ottomans move there after the Jews had made the land fertile again using European farming methods. Could it be they wanted to steal Jewish property again like they have done since the birth of islam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...the Palestinians are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing of Christians.​
> Every report I have seen about that is from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I have seen reports connected to Christians who have escaped the clutches of hamas and fatah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice that you did not post them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted them many times in the past, and you like a stuck record just keep asking for them. They never change, just like the mandate of Palestine never changes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, same old duck.
Click to expand...





 No duck just facts showing that you are either a moron or you hope the links change.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have one that shows it is not true ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forced to read the script or face having to watch their family brutalised. All came out when Jews escaped the clutches of the islamonazi's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two of the most widely known and respected Palestinians who support Palestine are Edward Said and Hannon Ashrawi. Both Christians. Why would they support a place that persecutes Christians?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it is not the place but the arab muslims that are the problem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link.
Click to expand...






 Link to what, current news items or your insanity.

 Try reading their charters and the Koran there are your links


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Naim Ateek*


----------



## 50_RiaL

theliq said:


> 50_RiaL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ball liqer writes:
> Who are the Jews really??????
> 
> Better yet, who are the Australians?
> 
> "_Between 1788 and 1868, approximately 162,000 convicts were transported to the various Australian penal colonies by the British government._
> 
> "_n 1787 the First Fleet of eleven convict ships set sail for Botany Bay, arriving on 20 January 1788 to found Sydney, the first European settlement in Australia.
> 
> "Approximately 20% of modern Australians are descended from transported convicts."_
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE these posts from the IGNORANT...but let me continue to blow this CRETINS summation (AND OPINION) out of the water.
> 
> The reason "Convicts were transported to Australia" is that the Brits were unable to send them to the ORIGINAL place of where these "TRANSPORTS/CONVICTS previously went to ...wait for it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AMERICA>>>>>>>>>>>>>YOU DUMB ASS.
> 
> Not all of Australia received convicts but who cares anyway.....Haven't we done well FREE MEDICAL BENIFITS,FREE SCHOOLING,CHEAP PHARMICUTICAL PRODUCT.....ONE THIRD THE PRICE THAN AMERICANS PAY(DUMB ASS),UNEMPLOYMENT PAYMENTS,FREE CHILD CARE SCHOOLING AND MEDICAL,STRONG ECOMONY(SKIRTED THE WFC).....AGED PENSIONS......ALL THE US DOES NOT HAVE.....WHAT DOES "MODERN AUSTRALIANS MEAN ?" DUMB ASS ........................CLEAN CITIES,ANYONE CAN GO TO UNIVERSITY..........poor old rial spends his his days sucking himself off......when your ready rial.....let the fight begin.......WE NEVER TAKE A BACKWARDS STEP
> 
> With all the money the Americans have made you have nothing to show for it,for the American people........Where did all the CASH GO ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? that's right $67 Trillon of Tax Payers money to Israel...yet those Taxpayers have to drive to CANADA to afford their medicines...................Give me Convicts anytime,now take your head out of your Ass pal.Australian GREAT ONE DAY...PERFECT THE NEXT...you were sayin......$#^%*&! that's right...GOT IT IN ONE>>>BULLSHIT
Click to expand...


The aussy pussy all worked-up.  Over what?  Every word I wrote is one hundred percent accurate.  So you descend from a long line of petty criminals & low-lifes . . . tell us somethin' we didn't already know.


----------



## Mindful

Penthouse apartment in Gaza.

Penthouse Apartment Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza


With no state or government. WOW!


----------



## rylah

a sceen of a massacre


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
Click to expand...



You could be the mayor.


----------



## montelatici

False advertising here it is today.


----------



## rylah

Order out of Chaos... they're the most educated in the ME You said...
I'm sure they don't have a problem to rebuild a working independent infrastructure.

Well, before jews came balestinians had even less than that.


----------



## montelatici

Gaza circa 1920.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
Click to expand...






 Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> False advertising here it is today.







 PROVE IT ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
Click to expand...

The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
Click to expand...


I wish the PA were actually the lackeys you describe them to be.  Then maybe they would recognize Israel as the Jewish National Homeland, and finally sign an agreement with them.  And we would have peace already.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
Click to expand...





 Elected in a free election


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
Click to expand...

Fatah lost the elections.

You need to keep up.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you need to keep up.



P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah lost the elections.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The elections were a decade ago.  The mandate for that election is long since over. 

Again, blame everyone except the Arab Palestinian.

In my opinion, it is just further evidence that the Arab Palestinian cannot stand on its own.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah lost the elections.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The elections were a decade ago.  The mandate for that election is long since over.
> 
> Again, blame everyone except the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> In my opinion, it is just further evidence that the Arab Palestinian cannot stand on its own.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So does that mean that the losers can take over?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah lost the elections.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The elections were a decade ago.  The mandate for that election is long since over.
> 
> Again, blame everyone except the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> In my opinion, it is just further evidence that the Arab Palestinian cannot stand on its own.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
Click to expand...


Another gormless question.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> So does that mean that the losers can take over?


*(COMMENT)*

It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.

As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.

The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah lost the elections.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The elections were a decade ago.  The mandate for that election is long since over.
> 
> Again, blame everyone except the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> In my opinion, it is just further evidence that the Arab Palestinian cannot stand on its own.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another gormless question.
Click to expand...


Tinmore has a habit of asking questions that he either knows the answer to or that he knows doesn't have an answer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Penthouse apartment in Gaza.
> 
> Penthouse Apartment Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> With no state or government. WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only you make this claim, the UN have accepted the P.A. as the government and have accepted Palestine as a state. They are just waiting for them to take up the reigns of power so they can cut the aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah lost the elections.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...






 You need to learn English comprehension as I did not mention fatah, but hamas once they won showed that they were to become dictators and started mass murdering women, children and any opposition. This left the majority of the Palestinian people in limbo with no leadership. Now hamas know they will never get re-elected so refuse to call for elections, and fatah are also refusing to force the issue. Neither party wants to give up their access to aid money that they are secreting in swiss bank accounts for when they retire


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" is just a bunch of US installed oligarchs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elected in a free election
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah lost the elections.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The elections were a decade ago.  The mandate for that election is long since over.
> 
> Again, blame everyone except the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> In my opinion, it is just further evidence that the Arab Palestinian cannot stand on its own.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
Click to expand...





 Apply arab muslim logic to the situation and the answer is yes. If the Palestinian people did not want fatah pulling the strings they would have executed them all by now


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?
Click to expand...







 Have they done this, or is this just your latest fantasy. I see no evidence of a US takeover, just a normal arab muslim FUBAR and murderfest to gain the money


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they done this, or is this just your latest fantasy. I see no evidence of a US takeover, just a normal arab muslim FUBAR and murderfest to gain the money
Click to expand...

They did.

It was in the news. You just missed it.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I suppose you are talking about this.



			
				EXCERPTS:  Congressional Research Service said:
			
		

> Following the death of Yasser Arafat in late 2004 and the election of Mahmoud Abbas as his successor as PA President in early 2005, then-U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice created the office of U.S. Security Coordinator (USSC) for Israel and the Palestinian Authority to help reform, train, and equip PA security forces which had been personally beholden to Arafat and his political allies.
> 
> The USSC has been charged with helping professionalize and consolidate PA forces and with coordinating their activity with Israeli officials pursuant to both sides’ obligations under the 2003 “Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict”.  These obligations are predicated on the understanding that security is a core issue upon which Israeli-Palestinian peace depends.
> 
> *SOURCE:* U.S. Security Assistance to the Palestinian Authority


​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?
Click to expand...

*(PREFACE)*

It should be remembered that the USSC for Palestine started before the elections, with the US recognizing the "Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated; pursuant to the Rabat Resolution of 28 October 1974 by the League of Arab States, and the UN General Assembly Resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, wherein it was decided that the PLO is entitled to participate as an observer in the sessions and the work of all international conferences convened under the auspices of other organs of the United Nations.  

The US did not just "come-in with guns and install" anything, let alone a government.  That is a Regime Change footprint that every nation in the world recognizes and understands.  On the contrary, the US has provided guidance to the Jordanian Public Security Directorate (JPSD) and international contractors in connection with their US funded “gendarmerie-style” _(a military force charged with police duties among civilian populations)_ training of West Bank-based PA security personnel.  Presidential Guardsmen and National Security Forces (NSF) have been trained at the Jordan International Police Training Center (JIPTC) near Amman.   This was done in full view and transparency and even with some Arab League Assistance.

*(COMMENT)*

Don't try to blame the US or Israel for the shortcomings of the Arab Palestinian in its inability to establish a stable and functional government.  The Arab Palestinian has had ample opportunity and loads of economic and political support to assemble a workable government in terms of peace.  It is the continued advancements of Islamic Resistance and Armed Struggle that fans the flames of successive continued failures. 

The Arab Palestinian must at some point, like children as they grow-up, take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions.

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## Mindful

Size matters. LOL

Palestinian cleric told television viewers that Israel has spread a “sex craze” around the world and that Jews, being interested only in material worth, place offensive advertisements for penis enlargement products in the media that “crush” the spirits of Arabs and Muslims.

Palestinian cleric pounds penis ads The Times of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I suppose you are talking about this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS:  Congressional Research Service said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the death of Yasser Arafat in late 2004 and the election of Mahmoud Abbas as his successor as PA President in early 2005, then-U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice created the office of U.S. Security Coordinator (USSC) for Israel and the Palestinian Authority to help reform, train, and equip PA security forces which had been personally beholden to Arafat and his political allies.
> 
> The USSC has been charged with helping professionalize and consolidate PA forces and with coordinating their activity with Israeli officials pursuant to both sides’ obligations under the 2003 “Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict”.  These obligations are predicated on the understanding that security is a core issue upon which Israeli-Palestinian peace depends.
> 
> *SOURCE:* U.S. Security Assistance to the Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(PREFACE)*
> 
> It should be remembered that the USSC for Palestine started before the elections, with the US recognizing the "Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated; pursuant to the Rabat Resolution of 28 October 1974 by the League of Arab States, and the UN General Assembly Resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, wherein it was decided that the PLO is entitled to participate as an observer in the sessions and the work of all international conferences convened under the auspices of other organs of the United Nations.
> 
> The US did not just "come-in with guns and install" anything, let alone a government.  That is a Regime Change footprint that every nation in the world recognizes and understands.  On the contrary, the US has provided guidance to the Jordanian Public Security Directorate (JPSD) and international contractors in connection with their US funded “gendarmerie-style” _(a military force charged with police duties among civilian populations)_ training of West Bank-based PA security personnel.  Presidential Guardsmen and National Security Forces (NSF) have been trained at the Jordan International Police Training Center (JIPTC) near Amman.   This was done in full view and transparency and even with some Arab League Assistance.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't try to blame the US or Israel for the shortcomings of the Arab Palestinian in its inability to establish a stable and functional government.  The Arab Palestinian has had ample opportunity and loads of economic and political support to assemble a workable government in terms of peace.  It is the continued advancements of Islamic Resistance and Armed Struggle that fans the flames of successive continued failures.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian must at some point, like children as they grow-up, take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...

You missed a few things.


Start @ 6:40

Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they done this, or is this just your latest fantasy. I see no evidence of a US takeover, just a normal arab muslim FUBAR and murderfest to gain the money
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did.
> 
> It was in the news. You just missed it.
Click to expand...






 Then link to this US invasion of Palestine and occupation as I cant find any record


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I suppose you are talking about this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS:  Congressional Research Service said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the death of Yasser Arafat in late 2004 and the election of Mahmoud Abbas as his successor as PA President in early 2005, then-U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice created the office of U.S. Security Coordinator (USSC) for Israel and the Palestinian Authority to help reform, train, and equip PA security forces which had been personally beholden to Arafat and his political allies.
> 
> The USSC has been charged with helping professionalize and consolidate PA forces and with coordinating their activity with Israeli officials pursuant to both sides’ obligations under the 2003 “Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict”.  These obligations are predicated on the understanding that security is a core issue upon which Israeli-Palestinian peace depends.
> 
> *SOURCE:* U.S. Security Assistance to the Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No!  Doesn't (necessarily) mean that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that the losers can take over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does mean that the Arab Palestinian people were not readily for government yet, they could not stand on their own.
> 
> As to who "takes over?" Well, that is a domestic issue for the Arab Palestinian to solve.
> 
> The fact that someone has to ask that question demonstrates how dysfunctional the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean that the US can come in with guns and install the losers on top of the winners that they did not like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(PREFACE)*
> 
> It should be remembered that the USSC for Palestine started before the elections, with the US recognizing the "Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated; pursuant to the Rabat Resolution of 28 October 1974 by the League of Arab States, and the UN General Assembly Resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, wherein it was decided that the PLO is entitled to participate as an observer in the sessions and the work of all international conferences convened under the auspices of other organs of the United Nations.
> 
> The US did not just "come-in with guns and install" anything, let alone a government.  That is a Regime Change footprint that every nation in the world recognizes and understands.  On the contrary, the US has provided guidance to the Jordanian Public Security Directorate (JPSD) and international contractors in connection with their US funded “gendarmerie-style” _(a military force charged with police duties among civilian populations)_ training of West Bank-based PA security personnel.  Presidential Guardsmen and National Security Forces (NSF) have been trained at the Jordan International Police Training Center (JIPTC) near Amman.   This was done in full view and transparency and even with some Arab League Assistance.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't try to blame the US or Israel for the shortcomings of the Arab Palestinian in its inability to establish a stable and functional government.  The Arab Palestinian has had ample opportunity and loads of economic and political support to assemble a workable government in terms of peace.  It is the continued advancements of Islamic Resistance and Armed Struggle that fans the flames of successive continued failures.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian must at some point, like children as they grow-up, take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed a few things.
> 
> 
> Start @ 6:40
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
Click to expand...







 Just islamonazi propaganda that you spread like the paid shill you are


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Hold your horses here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.


*(COMMENT)*

The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.

Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.  

It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.

HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.

At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.​
Ooooooo, terrorists.

Are you still pimping that shit?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
> 
> Are you still pimping that shit?
Click to expand...





 Can you prove that they are not on an international terrorist list ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997). To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.​
I didn't say that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords; and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.​
Indeed, then the Palestinians created a constitutional government with the 2002 Basic Law and reformed it to have a prime minister heading the cabinet in the 2003 Amended Basic Law. Of course they have the right to create their own government.

The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007. Then you blame the Palestinians for having a fucked up government.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords; and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.​
> Indeed, then the Palestinians created a constitutional government with the 2002 Basic Law and reformed it to have a prime minister heading the cabinet in the 2003 Amended Basic Law. Of course they have the right to create their own government.
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007. Then you blame the Palestinians for having a fucked up government.
Click to expand...


Palestinian Mentality : Blame everyone else but yourself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords; and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.​
> Indeed, then the Palestinians created a constitutional government with the 2002 Basic Law and reformed it to have a prime minister heading the cabinet in the 2003 Amended Basic Law. Of course they have the right to create their own government.
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007. Then you blame the Palestinians for having a fucked up government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Mentality : Blame everyone else but yourself.
Click to expand...

Like it is the Palestinians fault that the US overthrew their government.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords; and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.​
> Indeed, then the Palestinians created a constitutional government with the 2002 Basic Law and reformed it to have a prime minister heading the cabinet in the 2003 Amended Basic Law. Of course they have the right to create their own government.
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007. Then you blame the Palestinians for having a fucked up government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Mentality : Blame everyone else but yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like it is the Palestinians fault that the US overthrew their government.
Click to expand...


Speaking of governments, it's been almost 10 years since Hamas came into power. Why hasn't their been an election yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, with the help of the US, set up an illegal government in the West Bank and lied to the world and called it the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords; and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.​
> Indeed, then the Palestinians created a constitutional government with the 2002 Basic Law and reformed it to have a prime minister heading the cabinet in the 2003 Amended Basic Law. Of course they have the right to create their own government.
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007. Then you blame the Palestinians for having a fucked up government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Mentality : Blame everyone else but yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like it is the Palestinians fault that the US overthrew their government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of governments, it's been almost 10 years since Hamas came into power. Why hasn't their been an election yet?
Click to expand...

Ask the US. They are the ones running the show.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I was in Baghdad in 2007.  I don't recall hearing about a US Invasion or Attack.



P F Tinmore said:


> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007.


*(COMMENT)*

You'll have to refresh my memory.  What did the US attack?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I was in Baghdad in 2007.  I don't recall hearing about a US Invasion or Attack.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You'll have to refresh my memory.  What did the US attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Missed them again, huh?

Who Are The Palestinians Part 2 Page 31 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I did not miss anything.  The three propaganda pieces circumstantial at best, and clearly do not substantiate any US boots on the ground. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I was in Baghdad in 2007.  I don't recall hearing about a US Invasion or Attack.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You'll have to refresh my memory.  What did the US attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Missed them again, huh?
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians Part 2 Page 31 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It has been over seven years since the allegation of this grand US conspiracy was uncovered.  I have yet to see a US Document outlining the conspiracy.

The (so called) "Palestinian Papers," were a collection of stolen document _(less than 2000)_ from the PA/PLO Negotiation Support Unit (NSU) in direct assistance to the Palestinian Chief Negotiator Sa’eb Erekat.  The papers were handed over to Al Jazeera which then concocted and disseminated the stories.  Nothing in Post #306 even remotely gives evidence of the Fatah–Hamas conflict _(AKA: The Coup d'état)_, or shows copies of this smoking gun documents  ---  not then  ----  not now.  I have looked at the 244 Documents that al-Jazeer  has posted and cannot identify any of them as a "smoking gun" paper.

*(Post Script)*

I wondered what American they got to authenticate these documents.  It must have been the downstairs janitor from the Consulate.   Who in the hell is going to access to all those e-mails and document numbers to authenticate them in any form?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.

The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I did not miss anything.  The three propaganda pieces circumstantial at best, and clearly do not substantiate any US boots on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I was in Baghdad in 2007.  I don't recall hearing about a US Invasion or Attack.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You'll have to refresh my memory.  What did the US attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Missed them again, huh?
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians Part 2 Page 31 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It has been over seven years since the allegation of this grand US conspiracy was uncovered.  I have yet to see a US Document outlining the conspiracy.
> 
> The (so called) "Palestinian Papers," were a collection of stolen document _(less than 2000)_ from the PA/PLO Negotiation Support Unit (NSU) in direct assistance to the Palestinian Chief Negotiator Sa’eb Erekat.  The papers were handed over to Al Jazeera which then concocted and disseminated the stories.  Nothing in Post #306 even remotely gives evidence of the Fatah–Hamas conflict _(AKA: The Coup d'état)_, or shows copies of this smoking gun documents  ---  not then  ----  not now.  I have looked at the 244 Documents that al-Jazeer  has posted and cannot identify any of them as a "smoking gun" paper.
> 
> *(Post Script)*
> 
> I wondered what American they got to authenticate these documents.  It must have been the downstairs janitor from the Consulate.   Who in the hell is going to access to all those e-mails and document numbers to authenticate them in any form?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Forget it, Rocco, you are just playing stupid. Or maybe you really don't know anything about the supposed coup. I am not going to dig up information for somebody who refuses to learn anything.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I did not miss anything.  The three propaganda pieces circumstantial at best, and clearly do not substantiate any US boots on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I was in Baghdad in 2007.  I don't recall hearing about a US Invasion or Attack.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You'll have to refresh my memory.  What did the US attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Missed them again, huh?
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians Part 2 Page 31 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It has been over seven years since the allegation of this grand US conspiracy was uncovered.  I have yet to see a US Document outlining the conspiracy.
> 
> The (so called) "Palestinian Papers," were a collection of stolen document _(less than 2000)_ from the PA/PLO Negotiation Support Unit (NSU) in direct assistance to the Palestinian Chief Negotiator Sa’eb Erekat.  The papers were handed over to Al Jazeera which then concocted and disseminated the stories.  Nothing in Post #306 even remotely gives evidence of the Fatah–Hamas conflict _(AKA: The Coup d'état)_, or shows copies of this smoking gun documents  ---  not then  ----  not now.  I have looked at the 244 Documents that al-Jazeer  has posted and cannot identify any of them as a "smoking gun" paper.
> 
> *(Post Script)*
> 
> I wondered what American they got to authenticate these documents.  It must have been the downstairs janitor from the Consulate.   Who in the hell is going to access to all those e-mails and document numbers to authenticate them in any form?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forget it, Rocco, you are just playing stupid. Or maybe you really don't know anything about the supposed coup. I am not going to dig up information for somebody who refuses to learn anything.
Click to expand...


I pretty much understand how USA makes "banana countries".
Please present those to me.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I did not miss anything.  The three propaganda pieces circumstantial at best, and clearly do not substantiate any US boots on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I was in Baghdad in 2007.  I don't recall hearing about a US Invasion or Attack.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You'll have to refresh my memory.  What did the US attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Missed them again, huh?
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians Part 2 Page 31 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It has been over seven years since the allegation of this grand US conspiracy was uncovered.  I have yet to see a US Document outlining the conspiracy.
> 
> The (so called) "Palestinian Papers," were a collection of stolen document _(less than 2000)_ from the PA/PLO Negotiation Support Unit (NSU) in direct assistance to the Palestinian Chief Negotiator Sa’eb Erekat.  The papers were handed over to Al Jazeera which then concocted and disseminated the stories.  Nothing in Post #306 even remotely gives evidence of the Fatah–Hamas conflict _(AKA: The Coup d'état)_, or shows copies of this smoking gun documents  ---  not then  ----  not now.  I have looked at the 244 Documents that al-Jazeer  has posted and cannot identify any of them as a "smoking gun" paper.
> 
> *(Post Script)*
> 
> I wondered what American they got to authenticate these documents.  It must have been the downstairs janitor from the Consulate.   Who in the hell is going to access to all those e-mails and document numbers to authenticate them in any form?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forget it, Rocco, you are just playing stupid. Or maybe you really don't know anything about the supposed coup. I am not going to dig up information for somebody who refuses to learn anything.
Click to expand...


Nice duck


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Hold your horses here.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords;  and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.
> 
> Oslo I was signed by Mahmoud Abbas (1993) for the PLO and Oslo II was signed by Yasser Arafat (1997).  To say that the US "lied" about the establishment the establishment and recognition of the Palestinian Authority is a fabrication.
> 
> It is also important to remember that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) and the Presidency took place in January 1996 after the IDF withdrew from Zones A and B in December 1995.
> 
> HAMAS was then and still is a terrorist organization.  The fact that the US and the EU withdrew support that might go to HAMAS is the fault for electing a terrorist government.
> 
> At some point, the Arab Palestinian has got to stop blaming everybody else and look in the mirror at themselves.  They are responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The "Palestinian Authority" was a creation of the Declaration of Principles (DOP) - Oslo Accords; and a major step toward the fulfillment of Arab Palestinian National Aspirations.​
> Indeed, then the Palestinians created a constitutional government with the 2002 Basic Law and reformed it to have a prime minister heading the cabinet in the 2003 Amended Basic Law. Of course they have the right to create their own government.
> 
> The US trashed the legally elected and constituted government with its attack in 2007. Then you blame the Palestinians for having a fucked up government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Mentality : Blame everyone else but yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like it is the Palestinians fault that the US overthrew their government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of governments, it's been almost 10 years since Hamas came into power. Why hasn't their been an election yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask the US. They are the ones running the show.
Click to expand...






 No it is hamas running the show, and they refuse to call elections


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.
> 
> The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian







 Whwere does it say that the Guardian authenticated the papers then, By the way most British people do not believe the Guardian when it says the sun is shining, they always go and check.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,

I don't want you to waste your time trying to find old hearsay articles merely repeating the same story line.  I actually bothered to read what has been published about the "Palestinian Papers."  There is nothing about a conspiracy to overthrow HAMAS.



P F Tinmore said:


> Forget it, Rocco, you are just playing stupid. Or maybe you really don't know anything about the supposed coup. I am not going to dig up information for somebody who refuses to learn anything.


*(COMMENT)*

What is interesting is the wide range of topics these papers covered.  The Guardian Annotations are not always right, making assumptions not in evidence; but, I did look at all 99 entries on the "Palestinian Paper" presentation.  

The Palestinian Papers involve a number of different diplomatic and military players.  Some of it is in dialog form.  And they express ideas about what they think is happening, what they know is happening, and what they believe will happen.  The value  of the papers is only as good as the proximity to the snapshot in time to which they were relevant.  

As for the US involvement in the HAMAS-Fatah conflict, their is nothing there --- no smoking gun.  Everyone was reminded about the US Laws that prevent providing assistance to designated terrorist organizations, and states which have governments that support terrorism.  In this case, it would be automatically engaged against any HAMAS led government.



montelatici said:


> The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.  The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian


*(COMMENT)*

Again, the US Government would never participate in the verifications of the transcripts and letters presented.  The US government rarely confirms or denies authenticity of such material.  They would have to be authenticated by the Foreign National side (Arab Palestinian); wherein anyone could slip something into the hoard.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.
> 
> The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whwere does it say that the Guardian authenticated the papers then, By the way most British people do not believe the Guardian when it says the sun is shining, they always go and check.
Click to expand...


Only right-wing British people that read the Telegraph (equivalent to the Washington Times) don't believe the Guardian. Most British people believe the Guardian over the right-wing trash newspapers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,
> 
> I don't want you to waste your time trying to find old hearsay articles merely repeating the same story line.  I actually bothered to read what has been published about the "Palestinian Papers."  There is nothing about a conspiracy to overthrow HAMAS.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it, Rocco, you are just playing stupid. Or maybe you really don't know anything about the supposed coup. I am not going to dig up information for somebody who refuses to learn anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is interesting is the wide range of topics these papers covered.  The Guardian Annotations are not always right, making assumptions not in evidence; but, I did look at all 99 entries on the "Palestinian Paper" presentation.
> 
> The Palestinian Papers involve a number of different diplomatic and military players.  Some of it is in dialog form.  And they express ideas about what they think is happening, what they know is happening, and what they believe will happen.  The value  of the papers is only as good as the proximity to the snapshot in time to which they were relevant.
> 
> As for the US involvement in the HAMAS-Fatah conflict, their is nothing there --- no smoking gun.  Everyone was reminded about the US Laws that prevent providing assistance to designated terrorist organizations, and states which have governments that support terrorism.  In this case, it would be automatically engaged against any HAMAS led government.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.  The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, the US Government would never participate in the verifications of the transcripts and letters presented.  The US government rarely confirms or denies authenticity of such material.  They would have to be authenticated by the Foreign National side (Arab Palestinian); wherein anyone could slip something into the hoard.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I posted reports from three people: one British, one Canadian, and one from Gaza, and they all said about the same thing. I tried to keep it short and to the point without digging up additional proof that you would just ignore anyway.

Even Wikipedia says that the Abbass emergency government is illegal. You won't hear that in the propaganda media. They all claim it the be the legitimate government. An obvious lie. I knew it was an illegal government before I saw that in Wikipedia.

This appointment has been challenged as illegal, because while the Palestinian Basic Law permits the president to dismiss a sitting prime minister, *the appointment of a replacement requires the approval of the Legislative Council.* The law provides that after removal of the prime minister (in this case, Ismail Haniyeh), the outgoing prime minister heads a caretaker government. The current Legislative Council, in which Hamas holds a majority of seats, *has not approved the appointments of Fayyad or the balance of his new government. Fayyad's appointment was never placed before, or approved by it.*[12] Haniyeh continues to operate as prime minister in Gaza, and is recognized by a large number of Palestinians as the legitimate acting prime minister. *Anis al-Qasem, a constitutional lawyer who drafted the Basic Law, is among those who publicly declared the appointment of Fayyad to be illegal.*[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salam_Fayyad​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salam_Fayyad#cite_note-13

I could dig up some more if you are serious about learning something.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.
> 
> The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whwere does it say that the Guardian authenticated the papers then, By the way most British people do not believe the Guardian when it says the sun is shining, they always go and check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only right-wing British people that read the Telegraph (equivalent to the Washington Times) don't believe the Guardian. Most British people believe the Guardian over the right-wing trash newspapers.
Click to expand...






 I don't believe either, and most British people are the same


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,
> 
> I don't want you to waste your time trying to find old hearsay articles merely repeating the same story line.  I actually bothered to read what has been published about the "Palestinian Papers."  There is nothing about a conspiracy to overthrow HAMAS.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it, Rocco, you are just playing stupid. Or maybe you really don't know anything about the supposed coup. I am not going to dig up information for somebody who refuses to learn anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is interesting is the wide range of topics these papers covered.  The Guardian Annotations are not always right, making assumptions not in evidence; but, I did look at all 99 entries on the "Palestinian Paper" presentation.
> 
> The Palestinian Papers involve a number of different diplomatic and military players.  Some of it is in dialog form.  And they express ideas about what they think is happening, what they know is happening, and what they believe will happen.  The value  of the papers is only as good as the proximity to the snapshot in time to which they were relevant.
> 
> As for the US involvement in the HAMAS-Fatah conflict, their is nothing there --- no smoking gun.  Everyone was reminded about the US Laws that prevent providing assistance to designated terrorist organizations, and states which have governments that support terrorism.  In this case, it would be automatically engaged against any HAMAS led government.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Guardian had them authenticated and published them.  The Palestine papers the documents World news The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, the US Government would never participate in the verifications of the transcripts and letters presented.  The US government rarely confirms or denies authenticity of such material.  They would have to be authenticated by the Foreign National side (Arab Palestinian); wherein anyone could slip something into the hoard.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted reports from three people: one British, one Canadian, and one from Gaza, and they all said about the same thing. I tried to keep it short and to the point without digging up additional proof that you would just ignore anyway.
> 
> Even Wikipedia says that the Abbass emergency government is illegal. You won't hear that in the propaganda media. They all claim it the be the legitimate government. An obvious lie. I knew it was an illegal government before I saw that in Wikipedia.
> 
> This appointment has been challenged as illegal, because while the Palestinian Basic Law permits the president to dismiss a sitting prime minister, *the appointment of a replacement requires the approval of the Legislative Council.* The law provides that after removal of the prime minister (in this case, Ismail Haniyeh), the outgoing prime minister heads a caretaker government. The current Legislative Council, in which Hamas holds a majority of seats, *has not approved the appointments of Fayyad or the balance of his new government. Fayyad's appointment was never placed before, or approved by it.*[12] Haniyeh continues to operate as prime minister in Gaza, and is recognized by a large number of Palestinians as the legitimate acting prime minister. *Anis al-Qasem, a constitutional lawyer who drafted the Basic Law, is among those who publicly declared the appointment of Fayyad to be illegal.*[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salam_Fayyad​
> I could dig up some more if you are serious about learning something.
Click to expand...






 So where is the involvement of the US in an armed invasion mentioned, which is what you claimed


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Huwaida Arraf*

**


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.



P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf


*(COMMENT)*

Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.  

*KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.

Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.  

Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."  

No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What is dangerous?

What did she say that was incorrect?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Rafeef Ziadah*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
Click to expand...






 Mass murder of children for starters, I wonder how you would react it her words were directed at Palestine and the palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass murder of children for starters, I wonder how you would react it her words were directed at Palestine and the palestinians
Click to expand...

Good question. When was the last time the Palestinians killed 500 children?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Did I say that.  I think not.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.  

Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.  Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.  That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_

Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.  It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers. 

She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.

She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.  



			
				Article 2(7) - Chapter I - UN Charter said:
			
		

> 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.



Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass murder of children for starters, I wonder how you would react it her words were directed at Palestine and the palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. When was the last time the Palestinians killed 500 children?
Click to expand...






 Not that long ago when they provoked Israel into responding to violence and aggression that resulted in the deaths of over 500 children. Seems to be a bi-annual event with hamas to reduce their population, do they only use fatah neighbourhoods to fire rockets from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Did I say that.  I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.
Click to expand...

How so?



> Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.


Palestine was formerly under mandate.

So?


> Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.


Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.


> That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_
> 
> Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.


Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.


> It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers.
> 
> She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.
> 
> She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(7) - Chapter I - UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Did I say that.  I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was formerly under mandate.
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_
> 
> Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers.
> 
> She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.
> 
> She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(7) - Chapter I - UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






 Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Did I say that.  I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> Huwaida Arraf
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was formerly under mandate.
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_
> 
> Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers.
> 
> She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.
> 
> She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(7) - Chapter I - UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?
Click to expand...

I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Did I say that.  I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ms Arraf, esq.  is up in Albany _(more a political animal and less of an attorney --- clearly knows nothing about nation building)_.  Like many attorneys-at-law, she has fairly good speaking skills and choses her words wisely.  Like all Americans, she has her opinion.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her presentation, especially with the baby in arms, is a carefully crafted theatrical performance designed to appeal to the emotion of the audience which was pro-Palestinian.   But make no mistake, without becoming confrontational, she espouses the Palestinian concept that Palestinian (from the river to the sea) is her national identity.
> 
> *KHAN YOUNIS (Alresalah.ps) *Senior leader of Hamas Mahmoud al-Zahhar said all options are available to confront the Israeli occupation, including armed and popular resistance and resistance of boycott.*  ...   ...   ...   *Al-Zahhar stressed that the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) refuses a Palestinian state within the 1967 or 1948 territories, saying "Our policy is Palestine, all of Palestine". He explained that Palestine as a whole is a part of the Islamic dogma that is derived from the Holy Qura'an.
> 
> Speaking of relations with the Islamic Jihad, al-Zahhar confirmed that both movements cooperate at political, security, military, and syndicate levels. Political leaders meet continuously, said al-Zahhar. At military level, there is a full coordination between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, added he.
> 
> Al-Zahhar expressed his aspirations that both movements would unit, alongside with other Palestinian parties, to confront the Israeli occupier.​This very important.  This is a direction connection between HAMAS and another terrorist organization called the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  She advocate the same tenants that pro-HAMAS followers hold: the political position that "(T)here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> No matter how cute she might look up on the stage, she holds some dangerous ideas that parallel those of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was formerly under mandate.
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_
> 
> Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers.
> 
> She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.
> 
> She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(7) - Chapter I - UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.
Click to expand...





 Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Did I say that.  I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is dangerous?
> 
> What did she say that was incorrect?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was formerly under mandate.
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_
> 
> Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers.
> 
> She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.
> 
> She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(7) - Chapter I - UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years
Click to expand...

Are all of these Palestinians Arabs? What do Arabs look like?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Did I say that.  I think not.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Her opinion implies some dangerous ideas that promote the continuation of conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her opinion suggest that to be Palestinian is to be from any place that was formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was formerly under mandate.
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, instead of being an Arab of Israel, she is Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> That is improper although eloquently argued.  If you were born in Israel, you are a citizen of Israel with the nationality as law dictates.  To be Palestinian, you must have been a citizen of the West Bank or Gaza Strip; or born prior to 1948 during the Administration of the Mandate. _(BTW:  Huwaida Arraf was born in Detroit --- American.)_
> 
> Her opinion implies that she is a member of a minority class in Israel; arguing as if there is something wrong or illegal about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a rare nation in the world that has the same number _(equal proportions)_ of each ethnic constituents represented in the general population.  Once you understand this, you can by logical extension, the absurdity of her argument.  Of course their is going to be a majority aspect to a portion of the population.  And, that means there will be a "minority."  She is complaining that she is of a minority heritage.  Well, somebody has to be the minority if that are not equal in numbers.
> 
> She points out that as a "Palestinian" she is subjected to extra security scrutiny at the Ben-Gurion Airport.  As if that is a bad thing.  The risk assessment suggests that given and Israeli and a Palestinian, the Palestinian is more likely to be a security threat to the aircraft and passengers that the Israeli.  With the exception of Jewish Israeli named --- Israel Rabinowits --- how many Jewish suicide bombers have you heard of --- certainly none in the last 30 years _(1983 was the last time)_.  I can't find an example of a Jewish hijacker.  But in scanning the *List of Aircraft Hijackings*, there are many many examples of Palestinians engaged in hijacking aircraft.  People who identify with "Palestinians and the Palestinian Cause" are more likely to be a security threat than other ethnic groups.
> 
> She argue and by implication suggests that Israel being a "Jewish" State is somehow wrong.  The San Remo Convention, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Resolution of November 1947 [A/RES/181(II)] all suggest otherwise; either in terms of the "Jewish National Home" or the "Jewish State."  Whatever the State of Israel wants to call themselves is up to them.  It is a domestic issue.  Neither a crackpot attorney from the US --- nor the UN can challenge and change the internal decision.
> 
> ​
> Ms Arraf spent a lot of time on the topic of discrimination.  Again, a domestic issues pertaining to laws enacted through the Knesset.  But she also argues that laws and investigative responsibilities to pursue those people that provides material support or resources and functionally conceals or disguises the nature of the support to a terrorist or a terrorist organization.  And by innuendo, suggests that this is malfeasant.  The US knows quite well the consequences and impact of not pursuing those engaged in direct or indirect support to terrorist operations.  By extension she is advocating that a Palestinian and a Jewish Citizen should be handled and considered to be the projecting the same level of threat --- thus given the same freedoms from scrutiny and access.  If a Palestinian fits the profile and there is reasonable cause to suspect a terrorist connection, then of course they should be considered for investigation.  In America, we call this "Probable Cause."  And no matter a finely she wraps the argument around it, the persons suspected of illicit activity along those lines should be pursued and, if necessary, prosecuted.  This is not a bad thing.  This is how it is suppose to work.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are all of these Palestinians Arabs? What do Arabs look like?
Click to expand...





 Can you prove they are arabs and not mixed race


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Palestine was formerly under mandate.
> 
> So?
> Isn't Arab a race and Palestinian a nationality? Why would they classify people by race unless they were racist. My ID does not list my race because where I live it doesn't matter.
> Actually she said that Israel made Palestinians a minority in their own country. Remember, Palestinians are not immigrants. They were Palestinians who were living there before Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are all of these Palestinians Arabs? What do Arabs look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove they are arabs and not mixed race
Click to expand...

Why? It doesn't matter.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that the arabs had inhabited Palestine before the 7C, and had continued to hold sovereign control ever since ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are all of these Palestinians Arabs? What do Arabs look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove they are arabs and not mixed race
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? It doesn't matter.
Click to expand...






 Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even believe that all Palestinians are Arabs. Looking at their history it is highly unlikely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are all of these Palestinians Arabs? What do Arabs look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove they are arabs and not mixed race
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? It doesn't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
Click to expand...

So what?


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

I'm not sure that this is a productive line of discussion.



Phoenall said:


> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.


*(COMMENT)*

Race is a biologically dependent or based on certain shared physical characteristics and genetic outcomes.  A person does not choose a race; it is assigned by society based upon distinct physical features.

Ethnicity is much more complex as it can be based on one or more aspects of culture, nationality and tradition.  Ethnicity can be self-identified; based on a learned language, assimilation into the social norms culturally, and adoption of customs and courtesies, associated with an ethnic group.

It is exactly why the Jewish State of Israel cannot actually be an "apartheid" state.   Embedded within the legal international definition of *"apartheid" *is a concept that it is the systematic oppression and domination by *one racial group* over *any other racial group or groups*.  Israel is more racially diversified than the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  If it were based on the simple distinctive difference between two segments of the population Caucasian and Black, the distinction would become obvious.  But it is not.

In 1997, the US Census Bureau used these five (5) categories in the 2000 Census:
• American Indian and Alaska Native 
• Asian 
• Black or African American 
• Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 
• White​
The *2010 Census* question on race included 15 separate response categories and three areas where respondents could write-in detailed information about their race.  The response categories and write-in answers can be combined to create the five minimum OMB race categories plus Some Other Race. In addition to White, Black or African American, American Indian and Alaska Native, and Some Other Race, 7 of the 15 response categories are Asian groups and 4 are Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander groups.  (

You can be multi-racial although some genetic characteristics are dominant; and of course, you can be multi-cultural as a matter of emersion, assimilation and acceptance.  But they are not the same thing.  Race is much more difficult to define than ethnicity; and it has become less useful. 

I tend to think that in defining "Race" --- no one definition will satisfy all.   The term itself has become much too politically divisive.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is a productive line of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Race is a biologically dependent or based on certain shared physical characteristics and genetic outcomes.  A person does not choose a race; it is assigned by society based upon distinct physical features.
> 
> Ethnicity is much more complex as it can be based on one or more aspects of culture, nationality and tradition.  Ethnicity can be self-identified; based on a learned language, assimilation into the social norms culturally, and adoption of customs and courtesies, associated with an ethnic group.
> 
> It is exactly why the Jewish State of Israel cannot actually be an "apartheid" state.   Embedded within the legal international definition of *"apartheid" *is a concept that it is the systematic oppression and domination by *one racial group* over *any other racial group or groups*.  Israel is more racially diversified than the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  If it were based on the simple distinctive difference between two segments of the population Caucasian and Black, the distinction would become obvious.  But it is not.
> 
> In 1997, the US Census Bureau used these five (5) categories in the 2000 Census:
> • American Indian and Alaska Native
> • Asian
> • Black or African American
> • Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
> • White​
> The *2010 Census* question on race included 15 separate response categories and three areas where respondents could write-in detailed information about their race.  The response categories and write-in answers can be combined to create the five minimum OMB race categories plus Some Other Race. In addition to White, Black or African American, American Indian and Alaska Native, and Some Other Race, 7 of the 15 response categories are Asian groups and 4 are Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander groups.  (
> 
> You can be multi-racial although some genetic characteristics are dominant; and of course, you can be multi-cultural as a matter of emersion, assimilation and acceptance.  But they are not the same thing.  Race is much more difficult to define than ethnicity; and it has become less useful.
> 
> I tend to think that in defining "Race" --- no one definition will satisfy all.   The term itself has become much too politically divisive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Only racists are concerned about race.


----------



## foggedinn

Palistinians are decendent's  of the Cananites, not Ishmael. There has been a lot of mixing in the last 5000 years.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many are Jews that have lived in the area for 4,500 years, the arabs cant even manage 100 years
> 
> 
> 
> Are all of these Palestinians Arabs? What do Arabs look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove they are arabs and not mixed race
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? It doesn't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what?
Click to expand...






 It shows that you are twisting and turning the facts to meet with your POV


----------



## Phoenall

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is a productive line of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Race is a biologically dependent or based on certain shared physical characteristics and genetic outcomes.  A person does not choose a race; it is assigned by society based upon distinct physical features.
> 
> Ethnicity is much more complex as it can be based on one or more aspects of culture, nationality and tradition.  Ethnicity can be self-identified; based on a learned language, assimilation into the social norms culturally, and adoption of customs and courtesies, associated with an ethnic group.
> 
> It is exactly why the Jewish State of Israel cannot actually be an "apartheid" state.   Embedded within the legal international definition of *"apartheid" *is a concept that it is the systematic oppression and domination by *one racial group* over *any other racial group or groups*.  Israel is more racially diversified than the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  If it were based on the simple distinctive difference between two segments of the population Caucasian and Black, the distinction would become obvious.  But it is not.
> 
> In 1997, the US Census Bureau used these five (5) categories in the 2000 Census:
> • American Indian and Alaska Native
> • Asian
> • Black or African American
> • Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
> • White​
> The *2010 Census* question on race included 15 separate response categories and three areas where respondents could write-in detailed information about their race.  The response categories and write-in answers can be combined to create the five minimum OMB race categories plus Some Other Race. In addition to White, Black or African American, American Indian and Alaska Native, and Some Other Race, 7 of the 15 response categories are Asian groups and 4 are Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander groups.  (
> 
> You can be multi-racial although some genetic characteristics are dominant; and of course, you can be multi-cultural as a matter of emersion, assimilation and acceptance.  But they are not the same thing.  Race is much more difficult to define than ethnicity; and it has become less useful.
> 
> I tend to think that in defining "Race" --- no one definition will satisfy all.   The term itself has become much too politically divisive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...







 The UK government under a left wing government clouded the issue even more by introducing mixed "race" into the equation. So we had white Irish, Pakistani Welsh, African scots etc. all in the name of diversity


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is a productive line of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Race is a biologically dependent or based on certain shared physical characteristics and genetic outcomes.  A person does not choose a race; it is assigned by society based upon distinct physical features.
> 
> Ethnicity is much more complex as it can be based on one or more aspects of culture, nationality and tradition.  Ethnicity can be self-identified; based on a learned language, assimilation into the social norms culturally, and adoption of customs and courtesies, associated with an ethnic group.
> 
> It is exactly why the Jewish State of Israel cannot actually be an "apartheid" state.   Embedded within the legal international definition of *"apartheid" *is a concept that it is the systematic oppression and domination by *one racial group* over *any other racial group or groups*.  Israel is more racially diversified than the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  If it were based on the simple distinctive difference between two segments of the population Caucasian and Black, the distinction would become obvious.  But it is not.
> 
> In 1997, the US Census Bureau used these five (5) categories in the 2000 Census:
> • American Indian and Alaska Native
> • Asian
> • Black or African American
> • Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
> • White​
> The *2010 Census* question on race included 15 separate response categories and three areas where respondents could write-in detailed information about their race.  The response categories and write-in answers can be combined to create the five minimum OMB race categories plus Some Other Race. In addition to White, Black or African American, American Indian and Alaska Native, and Some Other Race, 7 of the 15 response categories are Asian groups and 4 are Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander groups.  (
> 
> You can be multi-racial although some genetic characteristics are dominant; and of course, you can be multi-cultural as a matter of emersion, assimilation and acceptance.  But they are not the same thing.  Race is much more difficult to define than ethnicity; and it has become less useful.
> 
> I tend to think that in defining "Race" --- no one definition will satisfy all.   The term itself has become much too politically divisive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only racists are concerned about race.
Click to expand...







 So you must be a racist then as you brought it into the equation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is a productive line of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Race is a biologically dependent or based on certain shared physical characteristics and genetic outcomes.  A person does not choose a race; it is assigned by society based upon distinct physical features.
> 
> Ethnicity is much more complex as it can be based on one or more aspects of culture, nationality and tradition.  Ethnicity can be self-identified; based on a learned language, assimilation into the social norms culturally, and adoption of customs and courtesies, associated with an ethnic group.
> 
> It is exactly why the Jewish State of Israel cannot actually be an "apartheid" state.   Embedded within the legal international definition of *"apartheid" *is a concept that it is the systematic oppression and domination by *one racial group* over *any other racial group or groups*.  Israel is more racially diversified than the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  If it were based on the simple distinctive difference between two segments of the population Caucasian and Black, the distinction would become obvious.  But it is not.
> 
> In 1997, the US Census Bureau used these five (5) categories in the 2000 Census:
> • American Indian and Alaska Native
> • Asian
> • Black or African American
> • Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
> • White​
> The *2010 Census* question on race included 15 separate response categories and three areas where respondents could write-in detailed information about their race.  The response categories and write-in answers can be combined to create the five minimum OMB race categories plus Some Other Race. In addition to White, Black or African American, American Indian and Alaska Native, and Some Other Race, 7 of the 15 response categories are Asian groups and 4 are Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander groups.  (
> 
> You can be multi-racial although some genetic characteristics are dominant; and of course, you can be multi-cultural as a matter of emersion, assimilation and acceptance.  But they are not the same thing.  Race is much more difficult to define than ethnicity; and it has become less useful.
> 
> I tend to think that in defining "Race" --- no one definition will satisfy all.   The term itself has become much too politically divisive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only racists are concerned about race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you must be a racist then as you brought it into the equation.
Click to expand...

Did I bring it in first or did I just respond to another post?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

foggedinn said:


> Palistinians are decendent's  of the Cananites, not Ishmael. There has been a lot of mixing in the last 5000 years.



The Canaanites became extinct a long time ago.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is a productive line of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does as if they are not full blood they cant be arab, only part arab. Just as nagroes who have parents of two races are not full negroes but half negroes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Race is a biologically dependent or based on certain shared physical characteristics and genetic outcomes.  A person does not choose a race; it is assigned by society based upon distinct physical features.
> 
> Ethnicity is much more complex as it can be based on one or more aspects of culture, nationality and tradition.  Ethnicity can be self-identified; based on a learned language, assimilation into the social norms culturally, and adoption of customs and courtesies, associated with an ethnic group.
> 
> It is exactly why the Jewish State of Israel cannot actually be an "apartheid" state.   Embedded within the legal international definition of *"apartheid" *is a concept that it is the systematic oppression and domination by *one racial group* over *any other racial group or groups*.  Israel is more racially diversified than the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  If it were based on the simple distinctive difference between two segments of the population Caucasian and Black, the distinction would become obvious.  But it is not.
> 
> In 1997, the US Census Bureau used these five (5) categories in the 2000 Census:
> • American Indian and Alaska Native
> • Asian
> • Black or African American
> • Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
> • White​
> The *2010 Census* question on race included 15 separate response categories and three areas where respondents could write-in detailed information about their race.  The response categories and write-in answers can be combined to create the five minimum OMB race categories plus Some Other Race. In addition to White, Black or African American, American Indian and Alaska Native, and Some Other Race, 7 of the 15 response categories are Asian groups and 4 are Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander groups.  (
> 
> You can be multi-racial although some genetic characteristics are dominant; and of course, you can be multi-cultural as a matter of emersion, assimilation and acceptance.  But they are not the same thing.  Race is much more difficult to define than ethnicity; and it has become less useful.
> 
> I tend to think that in defining "Race" --- no one definition will satisfy all.   The term itself has become much too politically divisive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only racists are concerned about race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you must be a racist then as you brought it into the equation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did I bring it in first or did I just respond to another post?
Click to expand...






 You asked the question so you brought it into the equation


----------



## foggedinn

ForeverYoung436 said:


> foggedinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palistinians are decendent's  of the Cananites, not Ishmael. There has been a lot of mixing in the last 5000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Canaanites became extinct a long time ago.
Click to expand...

The Cananites are as extinct  as the Romans. A political entity died, not all their children.


----------



## montelatici

foggedinn said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foggedinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palistinians are decendent's  of the Cananites, not Ishmael. There has been a lot of mixing in the last 5000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Canaanites became extinct a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Cananites are as extinct  as the Romans. A political entity died, not all their children.
Click to expand...


I think Romans today would not appreciate being called "extinct".  There are quite a few million of them still around, they just don't control an empire as they once did.  They still control their old area of Latium in Latin, now called Lazio in Italian.

*"Lazio* (pronounced [ˈlatt͡sjo], Latin: _Latium_), sometimes referred to in English as *Latium*,[4] is one of the 20 administrative regions of Italy, situated in the central peninsular section of the country. With about 5.889 million residents and a GDP of more than 170 billion euros, Lazio is the second most populated region of Italy (being approximately the same in population as Campania), [1] and has the second largest economy of the nation. Its capital is Rome, capital and largest city of Italy."

Lazio - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> foggedinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foggedinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palistinians are decendent's  of the Cananites, not Ishmael. There has been a lot of mixing in the last 5000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Canaanites became extinct a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Cananites are as extinct  as the Romans. A political entity died, not all their children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Romans today would not appreciate being called "extinct".  There are quite a few million of them still around, they just don't control an empire as they once did.  They still control their old area of Latium in Latin, now called Lazio in Italian.
> 
> *"Lazio* (pronounced [ˈlatt͡sjo], Latin: _Latium_), sometimes referred to in English as *Latium*,[4] is one of the 20 administrative regions of Italy, situated in the central peninsular section of the country. With about 5.889 million residents and a GDP of more than 170 billion euros, Lazio is the second most populated region of Italy (being approximately the same in population as Campania), [1] and has the second largest economy of the nation. Its capital is Rome, capital and largest city of Italy."
> 
> Lazio - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...






 Is this one of the wiki entries you edit, and it thus one of your edits ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Sabri Saidam*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sabri Saidam*






 More islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Mindful

From the Gaza concentration camp.

Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East




Yes concentration camp.


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
Click to expand...


Why do you bother?

Concentration camps don't look like that.


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
Click to expand...


After they are bombed they do. 

Do they look like this?






or like this?






or like this?






or like this?


----------



## abu afak

Mindful said:


> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East


*Here the larger views.
Gaza City
Oh Yeah, It's a "concentration camp"
Looks better than Athens*


































*Yup, "looks like Auschwitz" to me!
You?*


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
Click to expand...


Sickos like you are ten a penny.


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> *Here the larger views.
> Gaza City
> Oh Yeah, It's a "concentration camp"
> Looks better than Athens*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yup, "looks like Auschwitz" to me!
> You?*
Click to expand...


The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.

What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces


----------



## montelatici

These are the before and after photos of just one neighborhood.






Your use of propaganda from the IDF Hasbara site convinces no one.


----------



## abu afak

Montelaciti said:
			
		

> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces


*Guess again Akhmed.
All but the first are from an ARABIC FORUM:
And I could put up 100 more alike. 

http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*

* Montelaciti, PORKED again*
`


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sickos like you are ten a penny.
Click to expand...


You are the sick one that approves of how the Palestinian children are treated by Israel.  About 500 were killed by the IDF last year.


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> Montelaciti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess again Akhmed.
> They're from an ARABIC FORUM:
> 
> http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*
> 
> * Montelaciti, PORKED again*
> `
Click to expand...


The photos are from 2005. LOL Who is porked now.  Trying to pass those off as Gaza now.  Propagandist.


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montelaciti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess again Akhmed.
> They're from an ARABIC FORUM:
> 
> http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*
> 
> * Montelaciti, PORKED again*
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The photos are from 2005. LOL Who is porked now.  Trying to pass those off as Gaza now.  Propagandist.
Click to expand...


You've visited I presume?


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montelaciti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess again Akhmed.
> They're from an ARABIC FORUM:
> 
> http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*
> 
> * Montelaciti, PORKED again*
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The photos are from 2005.* LOL Who is porked now.  Trying to pass those off as Gaza now.  Propagandist.
Click to expand...

*You Caught-LYING IDIOT.
No hasbara, an ARABIC website.
You LOSE.

That City is still there OF COURSE.
Wanna see another 100?
1000?
`*


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sickos like you are ten a penny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the sick one that approves of how the Palestinian children are treated by Israel.  About 500 were killed by the IDF last year.
Click to expand...


How many are treated in Israeli hospitals?


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> Montelaciti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess again Akhmed.
> All but the first are from an ARABIC FORUM:
> And I could put up 100 more alike.
> 
> http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*
> 
> * Montelaciti, PORKED again*
> `
Click to expand...


----------



## Mindful

Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:

Book your next holiday:

Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Mindful said:


> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor



Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!


----------



## Mindful

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!
Click to expand...


Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.
Click to expand...

It could have if Israel did not lock the doors and throw away the key.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
Click to expand...







This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
Click to expand...







 This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
Click to expand...


I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.

It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie: 

Holocaust porn.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> *Here the larger views.
> Gaza City
> Oh Yeah, It's a "concentration camp"
> Looks better than Athens*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yup, "looks like Auschwitz" to me!
> You?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
Click to expand...






While you just spew out your islamocatholic NAZI JEW HATRED from the hate sites


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> These are the before and after photos of just one neighborhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of propaganda from the IDF Hasbara site convinces no one.







 Your use of not only propaganda but LIES and BLOOD LIBELS from islamocatholic Nazi hate sites fools no one as you have shown the depths of your depravity


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could have if Israel did not lock the doors and throw away the key.
Click to expand...







 Only on one side, and that door could have been easily opened. Now the Palestinians have welded shut the doors and are waiting for the aid to pour in


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sickos like you are ten a penny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the sick one that approves of how the Palestinian children are treated by Israel.  About 500 were killed by the IDF last year.
Click to expand...






 NO freddy boy they where killed by hamas who locked them in their homes so they could not get out.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montelaciti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess again Akhmed.
> They're from an ARABIC FORUM:
> 
> http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*
> 
> * Montelaciti, PORKED again*
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The photos are from 2005. LOL Who is porked now.  Trying to pass those off as Gaza now.  Propagandist.
Click to expand...






 You by using pictures from Syria and Egypt and passing them of as Gaza


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montelaciti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The fake photos from the IDF website.  Hasbara sure is clever.*
> 
> What Happened to the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza IDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense ForcesIDF Blog The Official Blog of the Israel Defense Forces
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess again Akhmed.
> All but the first are from an ARABIC FORUM:
> And I could put up 100 more alike.
> 
> http://forums.roro44.net/592530.html*
> 
> * Montelaciti, PORKED again*
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






 Just more of your islamocatholic Nazi propaganda


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
Click to expand...

Occupations always have problems with security.

It comes with the territory.


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
Click to expand...


In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
Click to expand...



Quack quack.


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Quack quack.
Click to expand...


Of course, it's funny to you, after all they are just dead Palestinian children. Racism comes second nature to you.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...







 And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
Click to expand...






Only of hamas making as the Israeli's did not target the children forced into acting as human shields. This is why the UN class the deaths as a hamas war crime


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could have if Israel did not lock the doors and throw away the key.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only on one side, and that door could have been easily opened. Now the Palestinians have welded shut the doors and are waiting for the aid to pour in
Click to expand...

Dependent.
Independent.

What do those mean?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Quack quack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, it's funny to you, after all they are just dead Palestinian children. Racism comes second nature to you.
Click to expand...







 And the propaganda value of the dead children far outweigh the reality of the situation


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, Monteverdi whatever your name is:
> 
> Book your next holiday:
> 
> Cheap Palestinian Territories Holidays Palestinian Territories City Breaks TripAdvisor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could have if Israel did not lock the doors and throw away the key.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only on one side, and that door could have been easily opened. Now the Palestinians have welded shut the doors and are waiting for the aid to pour in
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dependent.
> Independent.
> 
> What do those mean?
Click to expand...






 That the Palestinians have always been dependent on others to survive and Israel is independent of others and still survives.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
Click to expand...

Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful, nice packages.  Imagine how much more tourism and prosperity the region could enjoy with a true peace!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could have if Israel did not lock the doors and throw away the key.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only on one side, and that door could have been easily opened. Now the Palestinians have welded shut the doors and are waiting for the aid to pour in
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dependent.
> Independent.
> 
> What do those mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the Palestinians have always been dependent on others to survive and Israel is independent of others and still survives.
Click to expand...

Only after Israel stole, bombed, or bulldozed their stuff.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you bother?
> 
> Concentration camps don't look like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
Click to expand...






 It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could have become the Monte Carlo of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> It could have if Israel did not lock the doors and throw away the key.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only on one side, and that door could have been easily opened. Now the Palestinians have welded shut the doors and are waiting for the aid to pour in
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dependent.
> Independent.
> 
> What do those mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the Palestinians have always been dependent on others to survive and Israel is independent of others and still survives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only after Israel stole, bombed, or bulldozed their stuff.
Click to expand...






  I must have been asleep as the Palestinians have been dependent on other since 1099, without someone else to help them they would have died out years ago.

 But if you mean since 1923 then first it was the arab league, then in 1948 trans Jordan, then the UN from 1967 and the world after 1988. Guess what not a an Israeli in sight when all this was happening


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> After they are bombed they do.
> 
> Do they look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
Click to expand...

Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.

Why waste the time?


----------



## montelatici

It would be a waste of time to negotiate at this point, don't you think?

(CNN)The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview.

Asked by an interviewer with the Israeli news site, NRG, if it was true that a Palestinian nation would never be formed while he's prime minister, Netanyahu replied, "Indeed."

Netanyahu No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
Click to expand...






 Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> It would be a waste of time to negotiate at this point, don't you think?
> 
> (CNN)The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview.
> 
> Asked by an interviewer with the Israeli news site, NRG, if it was true that a Palestinian nation would never be formed while he's prime minister, Netanyahu replied, "Indeed."
> 
> Netanyahu No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com







 Is that why a Palestinian state exists and is recognised by the UN and the world nations


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
Click to expand...


not even a unity government


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what all borders look like when you are belligerent, and nice pictures of the Egyptian side of gaza by the way.  Not one of those Palestinians looks hungry or oppressed, unlike the children awaiting their deaths in the millions.
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
Click to expand...


Well, to be honest, I don't believe that Netanyahu negotiated in good faith in 2014...but Olmert, Barak, Peres and Rabin surely did.  Their generous offers were cast aside.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, to be honest, I don't believe that Netanyahu negotiated in good faith in 2014...but Olmert, Barak, Peres and Rabin surely did.  Their generous offers were cast aside.
Click to expand...


There was nothing generous about the earlier "offers".  In each of the offers it would have created a Bantusan with the IDF permanently based in the Palestinian territory, a swiss cheese pattern of Israeli armed settlements throughout the territory under Israeli sovereignty, Israeli control of land borders, territorial sea and air space.  In practice, accepting would have just taken Israel off the hook, but would have still been occupying Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Or --- there is another way to view this.



montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> Customary IHL - Rule 24. Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In a matter of a few weeks, the Islamic Resistance Movement sacrifice 500 children by using them as human shields (Rule #97) with the intention of maintaining that regime; and in an attempt to render certain launch pads and hostile operating areas immune from Israeli military interdiction operations.

There is no form of government more cowardly than the government that fails to take every reasonable measure to protect its own.  The Israelis took more safety precautions to protect Gaza civilians than did their own government.  It is the duty of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), to the extent feasible, to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives (Rule 24) and (Article 58 of Additional Protocol I). 


Article 58 [ Link ] -- Precautions against the effects of attacks

The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:

(a) without prejudice to Article 49 [ Link ] of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;

(b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;

(c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations
In deliberately using populate areas to launch attacks from, or to hide C3I _(Command, Control, Communications and intelligence)_ activities from attack legitimate engagement by the Israelis, is a war crime.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## aris2chat

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Or --- there is another way to view this.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> Customary IHL - Rule 24. Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a matter of a few weeks, the Islamic Resistance Movement sacrifice 500 children by using them as human shields (Rule #97) with the intention of maintaining that regime; and in an attempt to render certain launch pads and hostile operating areas immune from Israeli military interdiction operations.
> 
> There is no form of government more cowardly than the government that fails to take every reasonable measure to protect its own.  The Israelis took more safety precautions to protect Gaza civilians than did their own government.  It is the duty of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), to the extent feasible, to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives (Rule 24) and (Article 58 of Additional Protocol I).
> 
> 
> Article 58 [ Link ] -- Precautions against the effects of attacks
> 
> The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:
> 
> (a) without prejudice to Article 49 [ Link ] of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;
> 
> (b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;
> 
> (c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations
> In deliberately using populate areas to launch attacks from, or to hide C3I _(Command, Control, Communications and intelligence)_ activities from attack legitimate engagement by the Israelis, is a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Why no UN resolutions and sanctions against them or try them for war crimes.  Why is Israel always singled out when everyone else is a thousand times worse?  Obviously a soft war is just another form of stale mate.  The point to win a war is not be equal, but to be smarter or stronger and eliminate the wrong actions, teaching and thinking of the other side.  War is not a friendly game of ping pong where everyone shakes hands and has a beer afterwards.

How do you fight a 'fair' war without immense collateral damage or destruction.  It is not paintball.  We don't just take a shower and call it a day.

Either we want a quick decisive war with minimal of casualties or a prolonged unending war when the killings never stop, nor does the hate that fuels it.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Or --- there is another way to view this.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> Customary IHL - Rule 24. Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a matter of a few weeks, the Islamic Resistance Movement sacrifice 500 children by using them as human shields (Rule #97) with the intention of maintaining that regime; and in an attempt to render certain launch pads and hostile operating areas immune from Israeli military interdiction operations.
> 
> There is no form of government more cowardly than the government that fails to take every reasonable measure to protect its own.  The Israelis took more safety precautions to protect Gaza civilians than did their own government.  It is the duty of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), to the extent feasible, to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives (Rule 24) and (Article 58 of Additional Protocol I).
> 
> 
> Article 58 [ Link ] -- Precautions against the effects of attacks
> 
> The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:
> 
> (a) without prejudice to Article 49 [ Link ] of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;
> 
> (b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;
> 
> (c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations
> In deliberately using populate areas to launch attacks from, or to hide C3I _(Command, Control, Communications and intelligence)_ activities from attack legitimate engagement by the Israelis, is a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



No Rocco, it was the hostile  Israelis that killed 500 Palestinian children in matter of a couple of weeks.  Using UN provided coordinates to bomb UN shelters full of women and children is not protecting the children.

The UN report prepared by the team led by retired New York Supreme Court judge Mary McGowan Davis concluded that Israel committed war crimes in the killing of the children, and she and her team knows  little more about international law than you do.  ICC will indict and pursue the war criminals on both sides.


UN Live United Nations Web TV - ID commission of inquiry on Gaza - 33rd Meeting 29th Regular Session of Human Rights Council


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, to be honest, I don't believe that Netanyahu negotiated in good faith in 2014...but Olmert, Barak, Peres and Rabin surely did.  Their generous offers were cast aside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was nothing generous about the earlier "offers".  In each of the offers it would have created a Bantusan with the IDF permanently based in the Palestinian territory, a swiss cheese pattern of Israeli armed settlements throughout the territory under Israeli sovereignty, Israeli control of land borders, territorial sea and air space.  In practice, accepting would have just taken Israel off the hook, but would have still been occupying Palestine.
Click to expand...







 BULLSHIT


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
Click to expand...

Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Or --- there is another way to view this.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the Gaza concentration camp.
> 
> Children s fashion show takes the runway in Gaza - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> Customary IHL - Rule 24. Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a matter of a few weeks, the Islamic Resistance Movement sacrifice 500 children by using them as human shields (Rule #97) with the intention of maintaining that regime; and in an attempt to render certain launch pads and hostile operating areas immune from Israeli military interdiction operations.
> 
> There is no form of government more cowardly than the government that fails to take every reasonable measure to protect its own.  The Israelis took more safety precautions to protect Gaza civilians than did their own government.  It is the duty of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), to the extent feasible, to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives (Rule 24) and (Article 58 of Additional Protocol I).
> 
> 
> Article 58 [ Link ] -- Precautions against the effects of attacks
> 
> The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:
> 
> (a) without prejudice to Article 49 [ Link ] of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;
> 
> (b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;
> 
> (c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations
> In deliberately using populate areas to launch attacks from, or to hide C3I _(Command, Control, Communications and intelligence)_ activities from attack legitimate engagement by the Israelis, is a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It was Israel's war zones and Palestinian neighborhoods. Should the Palestinians move their neighborhoods out of Israel's war zones?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  montelatici, et al,

Wrong question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Or --- there is another way to view this.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes concentration camp.
> Customary IHL - Rule 24. Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you attack a stronger nation, you get your butt kicked. As for the concentration camps they are Palestinian created, not Isreali.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it's sick and disrespectful of our resident morons to post pictures of Auschwitz and the like. Which were death camps, not concentration camps.
> 
> It merely goes to show where their preoccupations and fantasies really lie:
> 
> Holocaust porn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a matter of a couple of weeks about 500 children were killed by the Israelis in Gaza, is not that a death camp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a matter of a few weeks, the Islamic Resistance Movement sacrifice 500 children by using them as human shields (Rule #97) with the intention of maintaining that regime; and in an attempt to render certain launch pads and hostile operating areas immune from Israeli military interdiction operations.
> 
> There is no form of government more cowardly than the government that fails to take every reasonable measure to protect its own.  The Israelis took more safety precautions to protect Gaza civilians than did their own government.  It is the duty of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), to the extent feasible, to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives (Rule 24) and (Article 58 of Additional Protocol I).
> 
> 
> Article 58 [ Link ] -- Precautions against the effects of attacks
> 
> The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:
> 
> (a) without prejudice to Article 49 [ Link ] of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;
> 
> (b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;
> 
> (c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations
> In deliberately using populate areas to launch attacks from, or to hide C3I _(Command, Control, Communications and intelligence)_ activities from attack legitimate engagement by the Israelis, is a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was Israel's war zones and Palestinian neighborhoods. Should the Palestinians move their neighborhoods out of Israel's war zones?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Summer 2014 Conflict started as a result of acts of war initiated by the Palestinians.  This is consistent with their covenant, charter, pledge and policy statements dating from February '48 to the present.  The Palestinians are the aggressors.

If the Palestinian Government (eg the Islamic Resistance Movement)(AKA HAMAS) bases it strategy on setting up launch points from within built-up areas to make them immune from counter-battery fire, to defeat the Palestinian indirect fire from Rocket launchers and Mortars, including their target acquisition, command and control components; THEN, they are in violation of (Rule 23 and Rule 24) and (Article 58 of Additional Protocol I).  There is no question of that; I don't care what Judge McGowen Davis says.

Rule 23. HAMAS, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.

Rule 24. HAMAS, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
The problem here is that the UN Activities (Shelters) were purposely placed in the vicinity of military objectives; and used --- with the UNRWA's knowledge that the Palestinians were using them to shield launch sites operating in close proximity. 

John Ging the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs of the United Nations confirmed on Radio-Canada July 30, 2014 that "Hamas and other terrorist groups in Gaza firing their rockets from the vicinity of UN shelters and residential areas."  "Absolutely!"  Yet the Commission failed to address this at all.

The UN does not want to raise the political complications in addressing the UN putting civilians into harms way.  It makes them culpable as well.  The UN COMMISSION OF INQUIRY RELATED TO MILITARY OPERATIONS IN THE GAZA STRIP was side-stepping the issue.  Further, the question of UNRWA workers providing material support to the Islamic Resistance Movement is unanswered.

But for the actions of HAMAS using the firing positions inside residential areas, the death and injury of so many civilians would not have happened.

But for HAMAS using residential lodgings to house HAMAS personnel, so family deaths and injuries would not have happened.​HAMAS deliberately using civilians to shield their military launch facilities is contrary to the principle of distinction and violates the obligation to take feasible precautions to separate civilians and military objectives.  HAMAS and Palestinians involved lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous operations outside the immediate vicinity of civilian residences and shelters.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

You are a liar Rocco.  And a propagandist.  Watch "1913 Seeds of Conflict" aired for the first time last night on PBS.  You will see why everything I have been writing is absolute fact.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici, et al,

Well, I would say that I'm not so concerned about events of a century (100 years+) ago.  We are not dealing with the events of a century ago.



montelatici said:


> You are a liar Rocco.  And a propagandist.  Watch "1913 Seeds of Conflict" aired for the first time last night on PBS.  You will see why everything I have been writing is absolute fact.


*(COMMENT)*

We are dealing with today.  No cause a 100 years old is justification for what HAMAS does today.  You cannot use Human Shields today in support of a 100 year old complaint.

A century ago, the world and its leadership worked differently then today. 

I do not react to unsubstantiated responds to my opinions that attack my personal character.  I never intended to be misleading, inaccurate, or communicate a false idea.

V/R
R


----------



## montelatici

Hamas doesn't use human shields. Stating something that is patently false is lying.  All you do is repeat Israeli propaganda which obviously, tries to put the blame on the Palestinians, the victims. You just can't make false accusations, based on Israeli propaganda, and not be subject to being called what you are.

*The myth of Hamas’s human shields*

'Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?"

Israel-Gaza conflict The myth of Hamas s human shields - Middle East - World - The Independent

"*5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields'*

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan


----------



## SAYIT

"Based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: during Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defense Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in the combat zones than any other army in the history of warfare" - Col Richard Kemp, British Army Ret.

3 minute video of testimony before UNHRC of former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan Col. Richard Kemp on conduct of the IDF and Hamas's use of human shields:


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

So your contention is that HAMAS does not fire rockets and mortars from densely populated areas, from close proximity to UN Shelters, or nearby hospitals and care facilities.



montelatici said:


> Hamas doesn't use human shields. Stating something that is patently false is lying.  All you do is repeat Israeli propaganda which obviously, tries to put the blame on the Palestinians, the victims. You just can't make false accusations, based on Israeli propaganda, and not be subject to being called what you are.
> 
> *The myth of Hamas’s human shields*
> 
> 'Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?"
> 
> Israel-Gaza conflict The myth of Hamas s human shields - Middle East - World - The Independent
> 
> "*5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields'*
> 
> Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
> 
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan


*(COMMENT)*

So, then --- the media is wrong --- this did not happen:

​
This did not happen either:

​
*Globe and CBC Acknowledge Hamas Fires Rockets From Palestinian Civilian Areas*
Following the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, Canadian journalists Patrick Martin of the Globe and Mail and Derek Stoffel of CBC both acknowledge having personally witnessed Hamas terrorists firing rockets from within Palestinian civilian areas.

*Patrick Martin today* details how he saw a long-range rocket fired near a UN school filled with over 1,000 people:

“Israelis said they sought to destroy rocket launch sites and arsenals, both often concealed within populated areas. On three occasions, Hamas was found to have used United Nations schools to conceal armaments. *This correspondent witnessed the launch of a pair of long-range rockets from a site in Jabaliya, very near a UN school filled with more than 1,000 people seeking refuge from Israeli shelling in their home neighbourhoods.”*

*Derek Stoffel on CBC National* yesterday noted that Israel says “Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields” and then stated that “Over the past few weeks Peter, *I’ve seen several rockets from where I am tonight in northern Gaza, we wanted to talk to Hamas but were told its fighters aren’t ready just yet to speak to reporters.”*​
By the way:  Mehdi Hasan is a presenter for Al Jazeera English.

As for Jeremy Bowen, he is well known:

 By David Vance | July 12, 2014 | BBC bias
I have to be honest and say that I did a double take when reading Jeremy Bowen’s twitter feed. I THOUGHT it has to be a parody but evidently not. Hamas must love him.
Over the years, we have covered many of the flare ups in this region and the BBC bias is truly visceral. Palestinians are ALWAYS innocent victims and Israelis are ALWAYS the aggressors. The script never changes. Never any investigation into how Hamas operate. Never any consideration of why Hamas rockets Israel on a daily basis. The three young Israelis boys kidnapped and shot to death now forgotten. Most times, I can brush off the BBC bias with the contempt it deserves BUT when it comes to this vile Palestinian propaganda machine, it makes me seethe with anger.​You can choose what you want to believe.  But there is no question in my mind that HAMAS uses launch platforms from with civilian areas.


​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> So your contention is that HAMAS does not fire rockets and mortars from densely populated areas, from close proximity to UN Shelters, or nearby hospitals and care facilities.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas doesn't use human shields. Stating something that is patently false is lying.  All you do is repeat Israeli propaganda which obviously, tries to put the blame on the Palestinians, the victims. You just can't make false accusations, based on Israeli propaganda, and not be subject to being called what you are.
> 
> *The myth of Hamas’s human shields*
> 
> 'Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?"
> 
> Israel-Gaza conflict The myth of Hamas s human shields - Middle East - World - The Independent
> 
> "*5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields'*
> 
> Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
> 
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, then --- the media is wrong --- this did not happen:
> 
> ​
> This did not happen either:
> 
> ​
> *Globe and CBC Acknowledge Hamas Fires Rockets From Palestinian Civilian Areas*
> Following the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, Canadian journalists Patrick Martin of the Globe and Mail and Derek Stoffel of CBC both acknowledge having personally witnessed Hamas terrorists firing rockets from within Palestinian civilian areas.
> 
> *Patrick Martin today* details how he saw a long-range rocket fired near a UN school filled with over 1,000 people:
> 
> “Israelis said they sought to destroy rocket launch sites and arsenals, both often concealed within populated areas. On three occasions, Hamas was found to have used United Nations schools to conceal armaments. *This correspondent witnessed the launch of a pair of long-range rockets from a site in Jabaliya, very near a UN school filled with more than 1,000 people seeking refuge from Israeli shelling in their home neighbourhoods.”*
> 
> *Derek Stoffel on CBC National* yesterday noted that Israel says “Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields” and then stated that “Over the past few weeks Peter, *I’ve seen several rockets from where I am tonight in northern Gaza, we wanted to talk to Hamas but were told its fighters aren’t ready just yet to speak to reporters.”*​
> By the way:  Mehdi Hasan is a presenter for Al Jazeera English.
> 
> As for Jeremy Bowen, he is well known:
> 
> By David Vance | July 12, 2014 | BBC bias
> I have to be honest and say that I did a double take when reading Jeremy Bowen’s twitter feed. I THOUGHT it has to be a parody but evidently not. Hamas must love him.
> Over the years, we have covered many of the flare ups in this region and the BBC bias is truly visceral. Palestinians are ALWAYS innocent victims and Israelis are ALWAYS the aggressors. The script never changes. Never any investigation into how Hamas operate. Never any consideration of why Hamas rockets Israel on a daily basis. The three young Israelis boys kidnapped and shot to death now forgotten. Most times, I can brush off the BBC bias with the contempt it deserves BUT when it comes to this vile Palestinian propaganda machine, it makes me seethe with anger.​You can choose what you want to believe.  But there is no question in my mind that HAMAS uses launch platforms from with civilian areas.
> 
> 
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I'm willing to bet that Monti will respond to your post with "Zionist propaganda !!"


----------



## montelatici

My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.

The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.

"*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014

Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
*
Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan



Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.


----------



## montelatici

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
Click to expand...


Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel.  The UN did not admit reluctantly, they pro-actively found arms in closed schools and had them removed,  The schools that the Israelis bombed were filled with women and children and had no arms in them.  The UN had given the IDF the coordinates of the shelter schools and the IDF used the coordinates to bomb them.


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
Click to expand...


Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.


----------



## montelatici

Wow, didn't think it would take so little time. LOL

*The Hasbara Campus Blog*


"Col. Richard Kemp of the United Nations Watch said the Israel Defense Forces “did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.”

Hasbara Fellowships - The Hasbara Campus Blog


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> Wow, didn't think it would take so little time. LOL
> 
> *The Hasbara Campus Blog*
> 
> 
> "Col. Richard Kemp of the United Nations Watch said the Israel Defense Forces “did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.”
> 
> Hasbara Fellowships - The Hasbara Campus Blog



Nowhere does that campus blogger claim or substantiate your charge that  "Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel" and posting in large, colorful font adds nothing to your libel of a respected British officer. Either post proof of your charge or admit you lied again because the truth is a foreign concept to you.


----------



## montelatici

If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you.  Grow up.  The guy is a tool.  

How about something from a neutral source.  CBS.

*"U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields"*

U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you.  Grow up.  The guy is a tool.  How about something from a neutral source.  CBS.
> U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News



That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say _nothing_ about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill. 
Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.


----------



## aris2chat

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you.  Grow up.  The guy is a tool.  How about something from a neutral source.  CBS.
> U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say _nothing_ about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
> Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
> You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.
Click to expand...


Enjoying wacking monte mole?


----------



## montelatici

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you.  Grow up.  The guy is a tool.  How about something from a neutral source.  CBS.
> U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say _nothing_ about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
> Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
> You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.
Click to expand...


You are the dime a dozen Zionist myth promoter that the "1913 Seeds of Conflict" exposed.  Kemp makes good money for his speeches.  I have substantiated that Kemp is a paid speaker. Quit lying. 

"Richard has undertaken successful speaking tours in the United States, Australia, South Africa and Europe,"

Colonel Richard Kemp CBE Military Speakers


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> If some colonel was featured in Electronic Intifada, I am sure you would claim that he was fair and neutral, wouldn't you.  Grow up.  The guy is a tool.  How about something from a neutral source.  CBS.
> U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields abusing children in custody - CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not from CBS but rather is just UN accusations (and we know just how "unbiased" they are) as reported by any number of media outlets that say _nothing_ about Col Kemp being - as you falsely claimed - a paid Israeli shill.
> Your inability to substantiate your smear of that respected British officer and lame attempt to deflect are both indicative of your mendacious nature.
> You're just another dime-a-dozen Pallywood liar, Monte, proven and provable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kemp makes good money for his speeches.  I have substantiated that Kemp is a paid speaker. Quit lying. "Richard has undertaken successful speaking tours in the United States, Australia, South Africa and Europe,"
> 
> Colonel Richard Kemp CBE Military Speakers
Click to expand...


You have proven neither that Col. Kemp was paid by Israel to testify before the UNHRC nor have you proven that his testimony was falsified. Stop lying.


----------



## montelatici

Of course, Col. Kemp travelled and made speeches for free.  What a nutcase you are.  All the other UNHCR said he was full of shit and the report stated as much.  Run along you silly nutcase.


----------



## toastman

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
Click to expand...


Of course that's the only defence Monti has. He's not smart enough to produce a valid rebuttal, yet he runs around the forum saying he's smarter than everyone else.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Of course, Col. Kemp travelled and made speeches for free.  What a nutcase you are.  All the other UNHCR said he was full of shit and the report stated as much.  Run along you silly nutcase.



Geez, your lack of rebuttal skills is making you very desperate LOL !

You got nothing, as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, et al,
> 
> Well, I would say that I'm not so concerned about events of a century (100 years+) ago.  We are not dealing with the events of a century ago.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a liar Rocco.  And a propagandist.  Watch "1913 Seeds of Conflict" aired for the first time last night on PBS.  You will see why everything I have been writing is absolute fact.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are dealing with today.  No cause a 100 years old is justification for what HAMAS does today.  You cannot use Human Shields today in support of a 100 year old complaint.
> 
> A century ago, the world and its leadership worked differently then today.
> 
> I do not react to unsubstantiated responds to my opinions that attack my personal character.  I never intended to be misleading, inaccurate, or communicate a false idea.
> 
> V/R
> R
Click to expand...

We are not talking about an event that happened a long time ago. This is a process that continues to today. It is a current issue.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> You are a liar Rocco.  And a propagandist.  Watch "1913 Seeds of Conflict" aired for the first time last night on PBS.  You will see why everything I have been writing is absolute fact.



The biggest liar and propagandist on USMB calling someone else a liar and propagandist hahaha. Now THAT'S funny ! Oxymoron ....


----------



## P F Tinmore

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
Click to expand...

Stooge Kemp was testifying on behalf of United Nations Watch. UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stooge Kemp was testifying on behalf of United Nations Watch. *UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization*.
Click to expand...


Can you back this up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stooge Kemp was testifying on behalf of United Nations Watch. *UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you back this up.
Click to expand...

Ian Williams, former president of the United Nations Correspondents Association[93] and author of _The UN For Beginners_,[94] wrote in an opinion piece in _The Guardian_ in 2007 that* the main objective of UN Watch "is to attack the United Nations in general, and its human rights council in particular, for alleged bias against Israel"*. Williams supported UN Watch's condemnation of the UN Human Rights Council as a hypocritical organization, but also accused UN Watch itself of hypocrisy for failing to denounce what he called "manifest Israeli transgressions against the human rights of Palestinians."[95]


Agence France-Presse has described UN Watch both as* "a lobby group with strong ties to Israel"*[17] and as a group which "champion human rights worldwide".[18]

*UN Watch is active at the UN in combating anti-Israel and anti-Semitism, *and what it dubs the selective and politicized treatment of Israel by many UN bodies.

Telegraphic Agency has described *U.N. Watch as a pro-Israel organization.*

UN Watch - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stooge Kemp was testifying on behalf of United Nations Watch. UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


You, like Monte, are a liar Tinny, but then what is to be expected from the anti-Israel/anti-Jooo cabal here:

UN Watch is a non-governmental organization based in Geneva whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations by the yardstick of its own Charter. UN Watch was established in 1993 by the legendary civil rights activist Morris B. Abram, the former U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations in Geneva. UN Watch participates actively at the UN as an accredited NGO in Special Consultative Status to the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) and as an Associate NGO to the UN Department of Public Information (DPI). It reports regularly to both.

http://www.unwatch.org/aboutus


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## Muhammed

Palestinians = A loosley defined group of sandniggers that live near the shore of the Mediterranean _*Sea*._


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## Mindful

Ha ha ha ha!

Hilarious!

Palestinian Cleric Israel Corrupts the Muslim World with Drugs Penis Enlargement Ads Defender of Faith Guardian of Truth


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## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stooge Kemp was testifying on behalf of United Nations Watch. *UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you back this up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ian Williams, former president of the United Nations Correspondents Association[93] and author of _The UN For Beginners_,[94] wrote in an opinion piece in _The Guardian_ in 2007 that* the main objective of UN Watch "is to attack the United Nations in general, and its human rights council in particular, for alleged bias against Israel"*. Williams supported UN Watch's condemnation of the UN Human Rights Council as a hypocritical organization, but also accused UN Watch itself of hypocrisy for failing to denounce what he called "manifest Israeli transgressions against the human rights of Palestinians."[95]
> 
> 
> Agence France-Presse has described UN Watch both as* "a lobby group with strong ties to Israel"*[17] and as a group which "champion human rights worldwide".[18]
> 
> *UN Watch is active at the UN in combating anti-Israel and anti-Semitism, *and what it dubs the selective and politicized treatment of Israel by many UN bodies.
> 
> Telegraphic Agency has described *U.N. Watch as a pro-Israel organization.*
> 
> UN Watch - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Woo ... you sure can pick 'em, Tinny. Your boy Ian Williams is a hack and a fraud. Meanwhile Col. Kemp is a respected retired British Army Colonel. 
Williams wife, Anora Mahmudova, gained notoriety when it was revealed that she was working illegally in the United States. What made this tawdry affair interesting was that her law-breaking employer was the United Nations Correspondents Association which emptied its coffers by hiring Mahmudova in 2004 as "office manager," paying her more than it received in dues. 
Williams is a fourth-rate hack who worked for the UN as a "media trainer" while at the same time functioning as an ostensibly independent "UN correspondent" for The Nation. The slimy nature of this cabal is typical of you and most anti-Israel groups.


----------



## Mindful

JUL12015

*BBC coverage of Ramadan terror ignores attacks in one country – in English*

Of course in order to be able to name the ideology, people first need to be aware of what is happening and whilst Israelis are among those who have seen a sharp uptick in the already high number of terror attacks since Ramadan commenced, most of the BBC’s worldwide audience remains unaware of that fact.

On June 19th a fatal terror attack took place near Dolev with Hamas later claiming responsibility. BBC English language services did not report the incident but it was covered in Arabic.

On June 21st a Border Police officer was seriously injured in a stabbing attack in Jerusalem and another man was injured when a bus was firebombed later the same day. The BBC did not report either of those incidents.

On June 23rd a missile fired from the Gaza Strip exploded near Kibbutz Yad Mordechai. That attack was not reported by the BBC’s English language services but the Israeli response to it did get coverage in Arabic.

On June 26th a Palestinian gunman opened fire on soldiers at Beka’ot checkpoint in the Jordan Rift Valley. There were no BBC English language reports on that incident but it was mentioned briefly in a later report in Arabic.

On June 27th an ambulance traveling near Beit El was attacked with live gunfire. There was no BBC coverage of that attack.

On the morning of June 29th a female soldier was injured in a stabbing attack at a crossing near Bethlehem. Later in the evening of the same day, four Israelis were wounded in a shooting attack near Shvut Rachel.

“The four had been driving back from a basketball game near Route 60, the main north-south artery running through the West Bank, when they were attacked. Security forces were initially unsure whether the four were shot at from a passing vehicle or a roadside ambush.”

Neither of those incidents was reported by the BBC’s English language services even after the most seriously wounded victim of the second attack died but both the earlier and later attacks were reported in Arabic. According to Palestinian media outlets, Hamas claimed responsibility for the Shvut Rachel shooting. 

As we can determine from the fact that at least some of the above incidents were reported on the BBC Arabic website, the corporation is obviously well aware of the fact that they took place. One question therefore arising is why – in a similar pattern to that already established in relation to coverage of missile fire from the Gaza Strip – the attacks are not being reported in English. An additional and related point worthy of note is that BBC audiences have not been informed about Hamas’ efforts to build up its terrorist infrastructure in Judea & Samaria.


BBC coverage of Ramadan terror ignores attacks in one country in English BBC Watch


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...






 Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...






 Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...






 Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...






 Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And can soon be sorted by imposing martial law and having a shoot to kill policy when anyone breaks the rules
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...






 Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Toasty was right! Your only defense against the truth is to scream "Hasbarat!"
> You now have the opportunity to post your proof of what you claim to be Col Kemp's corruption. I will wait here but I certainly won't be holding my breath.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stooge Kemp was testifying on behalf of United Nations Watch. *UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you back this up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ian Williams, former president of the United Nations Correspondents Association[93] and author of _The UN For Beginners_,[94] wrote in an opinion piece in _The Guardian_ in 2007 that* the main objective of UN Watch "is to attack the United Nations in general, and its human rights council in particular, for alleged bias against Israel"*. Williams supported UN Watch's condemnation of the UN Human Rights Council as a hypocritical organization, but also accused UN Watch itself of hypocrisy for failing to denounce what he called "manifest Israeli transgressions against the human rights of Palestinians."[95]
> 
> 
> Agence France-Presse has described UN Watch both as* "a lobby group with strong ties to Israel"*[17] and as a group which "champion human rights worldwide".[18]
> 
> *UN Watch is active at the UN in combating anti-Israel and anti-Semitism, *and what it dubs the selective and politicized treatment of Israel by many UN bodies.
> 
> Telegraphic Agency has described *U.N. Watch as a pro-Israel organization.*
> 
> UN Watch - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


So? The UN IS bias towards Israel. All UN watch does it follow the actions of the U.N


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan









 The reality is that gaza is 50% arable open land that anyone with a computer can see for themselves. So the excuse that it is densely populated is a fallacy as only the 50% that is inhabited is densely populated. Go to Google Maps and change to satellite view and you will see just how much is arable open land.


 Another monte lie busted


----------



## Phoenall

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
Click to expand...







 He is saying that Google maps are lying and that the images shown are those planted by hasbara propagandists to fool the world.

 See here    Google Maps


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely Kemp is a liar and paid by Israel.  The UN did not admit reluctantly, they pro-actively found arms in closed schools and had them removed,  The schools that the Israelis bombed were filled with women and children and had no arms in them.  The UN had given the IDF the coordinates of the shelter schools and the IDF used the coordinates to bomb them.
Click to expand...








 Are you saying that Google are lying and that 50% of gaza is not open ground


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reality is that gaza is 50% arable open land that anyone with a computer can see for themselves. So the excuse that it is densely populated is a fallacy as only the 50% that is inhabited is densely populated. Go to Google Maps and change to satellite view and you will see just how much is arable open land.
> 
> 
> Another monte lie busted
Click to expand...

It is your lie that is busted. Gaza (the usable space) is much smaller than Google states.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Israel supporters favor death and destruction? How can anyone make peace with animals like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
Click to expand...

Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.

Show some proof that it is.

Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Again, I disagree.

This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?


*(COMMENT)*

From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.

As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.

If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?  

You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."

*Article 1*
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":


(a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
(b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.

*Article 2*
The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
Click to expand...


Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.







Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.

2. A blockade is an act of aggression.  

3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Again, I disagree.​
No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
Click to expand...

Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

The blockade  was put-up (land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel from 2007 to present) in response to the abuses by Palestinians after the 2005 disengagement and withdrawal from GAZA.  In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade until the Palestinians started to import more and more rockets.  Had the Palestinians behaved themselves, there would still be no blockade.



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

After the disengagement, the Palestinians fired first; in fact fired a rocket and the last day of the occupation.

The blockade is in response to acts of war.

Wrong, the blockade was not put in place until 2007.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
Click to expand...


Because only you consider them fake borders.

Remember the last time we debated Israel's ? I provided plenty of evidence to show that Israel indeed has internationally recognized borders, while you provided nothing


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
Click to expand...


1) Liar. I already refuted this lie

2) The blockade is a result of Hamas threats and aggression

3) Israeli attacks are in retaliation are in retaliation of attacks by 'Palestinians'.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't believe any map shows Israel inside any international borders.



P F Tinmore said:


> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you are making an assertion not found in evidence.  If anything, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are inside the international borders established by treaty with Israel, and the two parties of Egypt and Jordan.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't believe any map shows Israel inside any international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, you are making an assertion not found in evidence.  If anything, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are inside the international borders established by treaty with Israel, and the two parties of Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Yes, they show Israel inside the internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan and Egypt.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) Liar. I already refuted this lie
> 
> 2) The blockade is a result of Hamas threats and aggression
> 
> 3) Israeli attacks are in retaliation are in retaliation of attacks by 'Palestinians'.
Click to expand...


Liar. 1913


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) Liar. I already refuted this lie
> 
> 2) The blockade is a result of Hamas threats and aggression
> 
> 3) Israeli attacks are in retaliation are in retaliation of attacks by 'Palestinians'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar. 1913
Click to expand...


Post a link to the documented attack that took place in 1913


----------



## montelatici

1913


----------



## toastman

1834 looting of Safed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> 1834 looting of Safed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Just a wiki Hasbara entry. Watch 1913 Seeds of Conflict.  The first verifiable attack was an attack by Jews on Arabs.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1834 looting of Safed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a wiki Hasbara entry. Watch 1913 Seeds of Conflict.  The first verifiable attack was an attack by Jews on Arabs.
Click to expand...


Hasbara entry? Really? IS that all you got ? You are beyond pathetic.

1834 Safed pogrom Project Gutenberg Self-Publishing - eBooks Read eBooks online

Translation of 1834 Safed pogrom in English


----------



## montelatici

1913


----------



## montelatici

The response to your propaganda will be 1913.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> The blockade  was put-up (land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel from 2007 to present) in response to the abuses by Palestinians after the 2005 disengagement and withdrawal from GAZA.  In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade until the Palestinians started to import more and more rockets.  Had the Palestinians behaved themselves, there would still be no blockade.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After the disengagement, the Palestinians fired first; in fact fired a rocket and the last day of the occupation.
> 
> The blockade is in response to acts of war.
> 
> Wrong, the blockade was not put in place until 2007.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade...​
Not true.

Start @ 9:10


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> The blockade  was put-up (land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel from 2007 to present) in response to the abuses by Palestinians after the 2005 disengagement and withdrawal from GAZA.  In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade until the Palestinians started to import more and more rockets.  Had the Palestinians behaved themselves, there would still be no blockade.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After the disengagement, the Palestinians fired first; in fact fired a rocket and the last day of the occupation.
> 
> The blockade is in response to acts of war.
> 
> Wrong, the blockade was not put in place until 2007.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade...​
> Not true.
> 
> Start @ 9:10
Click to expand...


Very true, there was no naval or air blockade right after the withdrawal.


----------



## montelatici

The Gaza border, air space and territorial sea have always been under Israeli control.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reality is that gaza is 50% arable open land that anyone with a computer can see for themselves. So the excuse that it is densely populated is a fallacy as only the 50% that is inhabited is densely populated. Go to Google Maps and change to satellite view and you will see just how much is arable open land.
> 
> 
> Another monte lie busted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is your lie that is busted. Gaza (the usable space) is much smaller than Google states.
Click to expand...






 Still 50% of gaza is unoccupied arable land, so why do they insist on fighting from civilian areas ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the Palestinians that favour death and destruction and it shows when they refuse point blank to negotiate a settlement. Care to show where in the Israeli constitution/charter it states the destruction of Palestine and the death of all Palestinians. Like it does in the many Palestinian charters.................
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
Click to expand...







1948 the arab league declared war on Israel, part of the arab league was the Palestinians that later became Jordanian and Egyptian. The hamas charter says that they are at war with Israel and your attempts at re-writing reality are failing every time


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Gaza border, air space and territorial sea have always been under Israeli control.








Wrong again freddy boy as until 1967 it was under the control of Egypt, then until 2007 it was under the control of the P.A.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
Click to expand...







 Then explain why the Palestinians attacked the Jews and massacred them in 1929

 So is firing illegal rockets at children

 So when there was no blockade or armed attacks from 2005 till 2007 what was the reason for the Palestinian attacks ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
Click to expand...







 Still waiting for examples of them defending themselves ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
Click to expand...







 Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) Liar. I already refuted this lie
> 
> 2) The blockade is a result of Hamas threats and aggression
> 
> 3) Israeli attacks are in retaliation are in retaliation of attacks by 'Palestinians'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar. 1913
Click to expand...






 Then it was in 632 C.E. when the forfathers of the Palestinians massacred the Jewish tribe at medina


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> The blockade  was put-up (land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel from 2007 to present) in response to the abuses by Palestinians after the 2005 disengagement and withdrawal from GAZA.  In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade until the Palestinians started to import more and more rockets.  Had the Palestinians behaved themselves, there would still be no blockade.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After the disengagement, the Palestinians fired first; in fact fired a rocket and the last day of the occupation.
> 
> The blockade is in response to acts of war.
> 
> Wrong, the blockade was not put in place until 2007.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 2005, after the withdrawal, there was no blockade...​
> Not true.
> 
> Start @ 9:10
Click to expand...






 Islamonazi propaganda that has about as much truth as the tooth fairy


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is saying that Google maps are lying and that the images shown are those planted by hasbara propagandists to fool the world.
> 
> See here    Google Maps
Click to expand...


Does he believe there is anything except 'hasbara' propaganda that does not promote hate of Israel, jews or the west?


----------



## aris2chat

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. The first use of armed force was on the part of the European Jews.
> 
> 2. A blockade is an act of aggression.
> 
> 3. Palestinian attacks are in retaliation for armed attacks by the Israelis and the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) Liar. I already refuted this lie
> 
> 2) The blockade is a result of Hamas threats and aggression
> 
> 3) Israeli attacks are in retaliation are in retaliation of attacks by 'Palestinians'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar. 1913
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post a link to the documented attack that took place in 1913
Click to expand...


violence erupted when some arab from zarnuka stole grapes from a jewish vineyard in rehovot.  Arab hit a guard and stole his gun.  The rumor was that a jew had killed an arab, obviously not true.  After an arab was seen swinging a blade and shouting insult fighting did actually break out, one arab ended up shot.


----------



## RoccoR

aris2chat,  et al,

The use of the term "hasbara" is NOT an insulting tag or an expression of a negative connotation.



aris2chat said:


> Does he believe there is anything except 'hasbara' propaganda that does not promote hate of Israel, jews or the west?


*(COMMENT)*

Hasbara is rather difficult to define simply because it covers so much.  it means "public diplomacy" or "people's diplomacy."  In broad brush strokes, it is a form of dialog that one nation opens up to another nation to communicate positive messages and images of the first.  In the US, we have an Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs within the state department.  Most sophisticated nations have a similar outreach program or system; not just isolated to Israel.

Public Diplomacy, is (in a way) a form of propaganda --- but in a positive sense.  The Hasbara (Public Diplomacy) nearly aways approaches a topic advance good and the pride of a people and a nation.  It is the opposite of pessimistic information and arguments; neither does it spread hate and fear.  Public Diplomacy is nearly always up-beat and NOT doubtful about a future.

The Hasbara would not participate in a discussion group like the US Message Board.  It does not get bogged-down in controversial subjects that will never be settled or confrontational issues of a provoking nature.  Its influence is almost always dedicated to promoting the accented and robust nature of the country; ever optimistic, and a source of inspiring good news stories.

In the case of MONTELATICI's accusation ("Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative.") --- he simply does not understand the role of Public Diplomacy (AKA: Hasbara).  If it did what MONTELATICI claims, by definition, it would not be "Public Diplomacy."  You can be both Black and White at the same time in a binary definition.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate what? Israel never negotiated in good faith.
> 
> Why waste the time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948 the arab league declared war on Israel, part of the arab league was the Palestinians that later became Jordanian and Egyptian. The hamas charter says that they are at war with Israel and your attempts at re-writing reality are failing every time
Click to expand...

Israel isn't a neighbor. There are no borders or border disputes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
Click to expand...

Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.

The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.

Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

You get this wrong all the time.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.


*(REFERENCES)*

Treaty of Peace between the *Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel,* 26 March 1979
Article II
The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
Treaty of Peace between The *State of Israel and The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* 26 October 1994
Article 2
1. The international boundary between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.​
Negotiations Affairs Department --- Palestine Liberation Organization (Sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.)
Since 1988, however, in the interest of achieving peace and ending the conflict, we limited our national aspirations to statehood to 22 percent of historic Palestine, seeking a state of our own in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital (that is, all of the territory occupied by Israel in 1967).​Hamas' Official Position Paper   Thursday, March 21, 2013
1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures. 

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; nand it will not be long, God willing.​
*(COMMENT)*

Currently, there are two (2) Formal Peace Treaties in place (with Jordan and Egypt), and two (2) remaining Armistice Agreements in place (with Lebanon and Syria).  The Treaty with Egypt supersedes the (originally SECRET) Agreement between Egypt and Israel of Sep 1975; which amended the understanding set by the Armistice.

It is important to remember that both Israel and Egypt made and agreement concerning the West Bank and Gaza Strip:

LETTER AGREEMENT ADDITIONAL TO THE TREATY OF PEACE OF 26 MARCH 1979
BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL,
CONCERNING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF FULL AUTONOMY IN THE
WEST BANK AND THE GAZA STRIP
March 26, 1979​
The two Governments agree to negotiate continuously and in good faith to conclude these negotiations at the earliest possible date. They also agree that the objective of the negotiations is the establishment of the self-governing authority in the West Bank and Gaza in order to provide full autonomy to the inhabitants.

The supplemental agreement:

*The Beilin-Abu Mazen Document*
31 October 1995
*Framework for the conclusion of a final status agreement between 
Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization*​ 
​*ARTICLE I: THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PALESTINIAN STATE AND ITS RELATIONS WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL *

1.  As an integral part of this Framework Agreement and the full Final Status Agreement:

a. The Government of Israel shall extend its recognition to the independent State of Palestine within agreed and secure borders with its capital al-Quds upon its coming into being not later than May 5th 1999.

b. Simultaneously, the State of Palestine shall extend its recognition to the State ofIsrael within agreed and secure borders with its capital Yerushalayim.

c. Both sides continue to look favorably at the possibility of establishing a Jordanian-Palestinian confederation, to be agreed upon by the State of Palestine and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.​
Now I think that if you look at the "Big Picture," Israel and Palestine made some arrangements and came to some understanding.  I'm pretty sure we discussed this all before.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Between Israel and the virtual state of Palestine, there are no agreed upon borders so it is obvious that no arrangements were made, consequently there was no understanding.  Given Netanyahu's recent declaration, there will not be an arrangement or understanding during his rule.  So, there is no reason to negotiate.


----------



## CMike

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

Of course there is no evidence of this.


----------



## montelatici

CMike said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there is no evidence of this.
Click to expand...


Of course there is. 

"Moshe Dayan had genuinely understood this strangely counterintuitive injunction: "Israel must be like a mad dog," said Dayan"

Read more: Articles The Samson Option Palestine and Israel s Nuclear Strategy 
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You get this wrong all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> Treaty of Peace between the *Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel,* 26 March 1979
> Article II
> The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> Treaty of Peace between The *State of Israel and The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* 26 October 1994
> Article 2
> 1. The international boundary between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.​
> Negotiations Affairs Department --- Palestine Liberation Organization (Sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.)
> Since 1988, however, in the interest of achieving peace and ending the conflict, we limited our national aspirations to statehood to 22 percent of historic Palestine, seeking a state of our own in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital (that is, all of the territory occupied by Israel in 1967).​Hamas' Official Position Paper   Thursday, March 21, 2013
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; nand it will not be long, God willing.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Currently, there are two (2) Formal Peace Treaties in place (with Jordan and Egypt), and two (2) remaining Armistice Agreements in place (with Lebanon and Syria).  The Treaty with Egypt supersedes the (originally SECRET) Agreement between Egypt and Israel of Sep 1975; which amended the understanding set by the Armistice.
> 
> It is important to remember that both Israel and Egypt made and agreement concerning the West Bank and Gaza Strip:
> 
> LETTER AGREEMENT ADDITIONAL TO THE TREATY OF PEACE OF 26 MARCH 1979
> BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL,
> CONCERNING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF FULL AUTONOMY IN THE
> WEST BANK AND THE GAZA STRIP
> March 26, 1979​
> The two Governments agree to negotiate continuously and in good faith to conclude these negotiations at the earliest possible date. They also agree that the objective of the negotiations is the establishment of the self-governing authority in the West Bank and Gaza in order to provide full autonomy to the inhabitants.
> 
> The supplemental agreement:
> 
> *The Beilin-Abu Mazen Document*
> 31 October 1995
> *Framework for the conclusion of a final status agreement between
> Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization*​
> ​*ARTICLE I: THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PALESTINIAN STATE AND ITS RELATIONS WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL *
> 1.  As an integral part of this Framework Agreement and the full Final Status Agreement:
> 
> a. The Government of Israel shall extend its recognition to the independent State of Palestine within agreed and secure borders with its capital al-Quds upon its coming into being not later than May 5th 1999.
> 
> b. Simultaneously, the State of Palestine shall extend its recognition to the State ofIsrael within agreed and secure borders with its capital Yerushalayim.
> 
> c. Both sides continue to look favorably at the possibility of establishing a Jordanian-Palestinian confederation, to be agreed upon by the State of Palestine and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.​
> Now I think that if you look at the "Big Picture," Israel and Palestine made some arrangements and came to some understanding.  I'm pretty sure we discussed this all before.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Rocco, you posted all that and left out the most important part.


----------



## CMike

Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.

I doesn't get a redo now.


----------



## CMike

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
Click to expand...

That's absurd. 

There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.

The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.

They rejected almost every cease fire offer.

This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.


----------



## montelatici

CMike said:


> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.



How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.

"Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "

CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency


----------



## montelatici

CMike said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
Click to expand...


Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.


----------



## CMike

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
Click to expand...

Oh? What attacks specifically?


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
Click to expand...

Many US media reports were quick to declare that two suicide bombings in Israel on September 18 and 19, in which eight Israelis were killed, had brought an end to a period of “calm” simply because there had been no similar attacks for six weeks and few Israelis had been victims of Palestinian violence.

In fact, the bombings came at the end of a particularly bloody period in which dozens of Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians, and a large number of them children, had been killed and injured by Israeli occupation forces.* In effect, the definition of “calm” or a “lull in violence” inherent in these reports is ‘only Palestinians are being killed.’*

Killings of dozens once again called period of calm by US media The Electronic Intifada


----------



## CMike

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
Click to expand...

Excellent question I am just finishing a book on the 1967 war. Great book by Michael Oren.

Nassar blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.

There were daily incursions attacking Israel.

Nassar was amasssing Egyptian troops on the border.

And Nasser was threatening repeatedly that he will annihilate Israel.

However if we are talking about Jordan and the West Bank. Israel pleaded with Jordan to stay out of the war.

King Hussein of Jordan attacked Israel. In the course of it, Jordan lost the West Bank, and their hold on Jerusalem.

Also, Syria was shooting artillery at Israeli Kibbutizim without Israel even engaging with Syria. Syria wouldn't stop so they lost the Golan Heights.

Seems like he should have taken Israel's advice and stayed out of it.


----------



## CMike

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many US media reports were quick to declare that two suicide bombings in Israel on September 18 and 19, in which eight Israelis were killed, had brought an end to a period of “calm” simply because there had been no similar attacks for six weeks and few Israelis had been victims of Palestinian violence.
> 
> In fact, the bombings came at the end of a particularly bloody period in which dozens of Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians, and a large number of them children, had been killed and injured by Israeli occupation forces.* In effect, the definition of “calm” or a “lull in violence” inherent in these reports is ‘only Palestinians are being killed.’*
> 
> Killings of dozens once again called period of calm by US media The Electronic Intifada
Click to expand...

"Electronic Intifada" is not a legitimate source.


----------



## montelatici

CMike said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question I am just finishing a book on the 1967 war. Great book by Michael Oren.
> 
> Nassar blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.
> 
> There were daily incursions attacking Israel.
> 
> Nassar was amasssing Egyptian troops on the border.
> 
> And Nasser was threatening repeatedly that he will annihilate Israel.
> 
> However if we are talking about Jordan and the West Bank. Israel pleaded with Jordan to stay out of the war.
> 
> King Hussein of Jordan attacked Israel. In the course of it, Jordan lost the West Bank, and their hold on Jerusalem.
> 
> Also, Syria was shooting artillery at Israeli Kibbutizim without Israel even engaging with Syria. Syria wouldn't stop so they lost the Golan Heights.
> 
> Seems like he should have taken Israel's advice and stayed out of it.
Click to expand...


Michael Oren, you mean the American born US citizen that decided to become an Israeli citizen.  As an American, I don't like people that prefer to become citizens of foreign countries.  Nor do I believe anything that turncoats write.


----------



## P F Tinmore

CMike said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many US media reports were quick to declare that two suicide bombings in Israel on September 18 and 19, in which eight Israelis were killed, had brought an end to a period of “calm” simply because there had been no similar attacks for six weeks and few Israelis had been victims of Palestinian violence.
> 
> In fact, the bombings came at the end of a particularly bloody period in which dozens of Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians, and a large number of them children, had been killed and injured by Israeli occupation forces.* In effect, the definition of “calm” or a “lull in violence” inherent in these reports is ‘only Palestinians are being killed.’*
> 
> Killings of dozens once again called period of calm by US media The Electronic Intifada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Electronic Intifada" is not a legitimate source.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the only "legitimate sources" suck Israel's dick.


----------



## P F Tinmore

CMike said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question I am just finishing a book on the 1967 war. Great book by Michael Oren.
> 
> Nassar blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.
> 
> There were daily incursions attacking Israel.
> 
> Nassar was amasssing Egyptian troops on the border.
> 
> And Nasser was threatening repeatedly that he will annihilate Israel.
> 
> However if we are talking about Jordan and the West Bank. Israel pleaded with Jordan to stay out of the war.
> 
> King Hussein of Jordan attacked Israel. In the course of it, Jordan lost the West Bank, and their hold on Jerusalem.
> 
> Also, Syria was shooting artillery at Israeli Kibbutizim without Israel even engaging with Syria. Syria wouldn't stop so they lost the Golan Heights.
> 
> Seems like he should have taken Israel's advice and stayed out of it.
Click to expand...

Michael Oren 

And you talk about my sources. You scrape the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## Phoenall

aris2chat said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My (everyone that is not a Zionist propagandist) contention is that Gaza is densely populated and as stated by neutral news media, the Palestinian militias do not use human shields.  Anyone that claims that the BBC is biased is certainly a Hasbara operative. If anything BBC is biased in support of Israel.
> 
> The Palestinians are defending themselves.  There had been no rockets fired by the Palestinians since 2012 before the Palestinians retaliated against Israeli air raids.
> 
> "*6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
> 
> Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012." The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."
> *
> Debunking Israel s 11 Main Myths About Gaza Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying Col Kemp is lying? That we should accept to opinion of Mehdi Hassan? You are kidding, right? I will grant that it is extremely difficult to catch Hamas at work as rational people don't want to become their next victim but before they quickly and quietly slipped out of Gaza, an Indian TV crew managed to film a Hamas rocket launched from beneath their _hotel_ window. Furthermore, UNRWA was _forced to admit_ (very reluctantly) that UN "schools" were used by Hamas as armories. You and Hassan can deny or otherwise avoid the truth but it is still the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is saying that Google maps are lying and that the images shown are those planted by hasbara propagandists to fool the world.
> 
> See here    Google Maps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does he believe there is anything except 'hasbara' propaganda that does not promote hate of Israel, jews or the west?
Click to expand...





 It seems so, as he is now claiming that the Catholic church is promoting hasbara propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many US media reports were quick to declare that two suicide bombings in Israel on September 18 and 19, in which eight Israelis were killed, had brought an end to a period of “calm” simply because there had been no similar attacks for six weeks and few Israelis had been victims of Palestinian violence.
> 
> In fact, the bombings came at the end of a particularly bloody period in which dozens of Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians, and a large number of them children, had been killed and injured by Israeli occupation forces.* In effect, the definition of “calm” or a “lull in violence” inherent in these reports is ‘only Palestinians are being killed.’*
> 
> Killings of dozens once again called period of calm by US media The Electronic Intifada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Electronic Intifada" is not a legitimate source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the only "legitimate sources" suck Israel's dick.
Click to expand...





 No they tell the truth, which is why team Palestine don't like them


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two treaties that have stood the test of time with Jordan and Egypt. Now what have the Palestinians ever negotiated ?
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiate peace with whom? They are not at war with any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948 the arab league declared war on Israel, part of the arab league was the Palestinians that later became Jordanian and Egyptian. The hamas charter says that they are at war with Israel and your attempts at re-writing reality are failing every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel isn't a neighbor. There are no borders or border disputes.
Click to expand...







 Tell that to the P.A. and the UN who have said that Israel is a neighbour. If Israel disputes the Palestinians claims and the Palestinians refuse to negotiate then there are disputes


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to Jordan, Egypt and Israel who they are constantly at war with. And your LIEs no longer work as Palestine still has no borders according to the UN.    By the way I did not mention peace I mentioned negotiations honoured by Palestine, kithman and taqiya
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
Click to expand...






 So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel


----------



## Statistikhengst

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...



Du musstest unbedingt in ein solches Wespennest herumstochern, nicht wahr?

Damn.

Jetzt muss ich Dich mit allen Kräften schööön peitschen.

Wenn ich höre, daß ein Deutscher über die Juden so herfällt, reagiere ich GANZ allergisch darauf.

Arschloch.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
Click to expand...






 Firing first does not mean they started the war, read about Operation Dawn and how the Russian ambassador woke Nasser in the early hours to tell him he was unable to support the attack on Israel planned for that day


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
Click to expand...






 So which attacks took place between AUGUST 2005 and 2007 that caused the Palestinians to fire 2000 rockets at Israel


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, I disagree.
> 
> This is just some foolishness to justify their unlawful action by Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> From a practical aspect, firing rockets and mortars across the border into sovereign territory of Israel is an act of aggression.   While the Arab Palestinian may not recognize the "JIHAD" as a war, it is a war with real casualties.   It is the political policy of the Arab Palestinians to eject the State of Israel, recognized since 1948, even though the PLO exchanged letter of Mutual Recognition.
> 
> As I have said before, this pledge of conflict has gone essential unchanged for more nearly seven decades _(made in February 1948)_ and is mimicked in Palestinian National Charter (1968), the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (1988), and more recently in a 2013 major position paper, published by Khaled Meshal, Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau_(currently hiding out on Doha, Qatar)_.
> 
> If there is no dispute, then why fire rockets and mortars at Israel?
> 
> You don't know how unreliable and impractical you sound when you suggest there is "no war."
> 
> *Article 1*
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> 
> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I disagree.​
> No surprise, you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's absurd.
> 
> There have been no Jews in Gaza for nine years.
> 
> The Gaza government started the was by firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities.
> 
> They rejected almost every cease fire offer.
> 
> This is solely on the heads of the arab government in gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  The Israelis have started every engagement.  All rockets from Gaza were in retaliation to israeli attacks. The Israelis broke every ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many US media reports were quick to declare that two suicide bombings in Israel on September 18 and 19, in which eight Israelis were killed, had brought an end to a period of “calm” simply because there had been no similar attacks for six weeks and few Israelis had been victims of Palestinian violence.
> 
> In fact, the bombings came at the end of a particularly bloody period in which dozens of Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians, and a large number of them children, had been killed and injured by Israeli occupation forces.* In effect, the definition of “calm” or a “lull in violence” inherent in these reports is ‘only Palestinians are being killed.’*
> 
> Killings of dozens once again called period of calm by US media The Electronic Intifada
Click to expand...







 Your source is just islamonazi propaganda and has no founding in reality


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question I am just finishing a book on the 1967 war. Great book by Michael Oren.
> 
> Nassar blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.
> 
> There were daily incursions attacking Israel.
> 
> Nassar was amasssing Egyptian troops on the border.
> 
> And Nasser was threatening repeatedly that he will annihilate Israel.
> 
> However if we are talking about Jordan and the West Bank. Israel pleaded with Jordan to stay out of the war.
> 
> King Hussein of Jordan attacked Israel. In the course of it, Jordan lost the West Bank, and their hold on Jerusalem.
> 
> Also, Syria was shooting artillery at Israeli Kibbutizim without Israel even engaging with Syria. Syria wouldn't stop so they lost the Golan Heights.
> 
> Seems like he should have taken Israel's advice and stayed out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Michael Oren, you mean the American born US citizen that decided to become an Israeli citizen.  As an American, I don't like people that prefer to become citizens of foreign countries.  Nor do I believe anything that turncoats write.
Click to expand...







 So that is all Americans then as they are all foriegners


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is not at war with any of its neighbors.
> 
> Show some proof that it is.
> 
> Why negotiate if there is no war and no border disputes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel
Click to expand...

Article 53.
TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")

A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> 
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 53.
> TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf
Click to expand...







So which International laws did these treaties conflict with then, give details of the Laws and dates of implementation.



 Then explain why you manipulated the cut and paste to say other than its intended context



_Article 53. _TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM

OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")

A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory

norm of general international law. *For the purposes of the present Convention, a

 
peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by

 
the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no deroga

 
tion is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general in

 
ternational law having the same character.*



 Destroys your whole argument when it is posted in full


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

This discussion goes in circles.  You should stop this line of discussion because no matter what you put in front of P F Tinmore, no agreement, no treaty, no reality on the ground is going to alter his perception that somehow the territory to which the Mandate applied --- all belongs to Palestine today.

And this belief is what continues to feed the Arab-Israeli Conflict.   

Most respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 53.
> TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So which International laws did these treaties conflict with then, give details of the Laws and dates of implementation.
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain why you manipulated the cut and paste to say other than its intended context
> 
> 
> 
> _Article 53. _TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM
> 
> OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory
> 
> norm of general international law. *For the purposes of the present Convention, a
> 
> 
> peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by
> 
> 
> the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no deroga
> 
> 
> tion is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general in
> 
> 
> ternational law having the same character.*
> 
> 
> 
> Destroys your whole argument when it is posted in full
Click to expand...

How does that change anything? It is merely a clarification.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> This discussion goes in circles.  You should stop this line of discussion because no matter what you put in front of P F Tinmore, no agreement, no treaty, no reality on the ground is going to alter his perception that somehow the territory to which the Mandate applied --- all belongs to Palestine today.
> 
> And this belief is what continues to feed the Arab-Israeli Conflict.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> R


Indeed, and when I ask for proof otherwise I always get a song and dance.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici, P F Tinmore,  et al,

Actually it is NOT.



montelatici said:


> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.


*(REFERENCE)*

1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​
The *Treaty of London* _(Anglo-Transjordanian Treaty)_ was signed between the United Kingdom and Transjordan on March 22, 1946 and came into force on June 17, 1946

The Making of Transjordan 
On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the *Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*.​
*(COMMENT)*

As the area to which the Mandate for Palestine changes, so does the territory; and by definition, the area described as Palestine.

When Jordan was granted independence _(His Majesty The King recognizes Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.) _and the Mandate for Palestine no longer applied to Transjordan, by definition "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine," also changed.

Now, some claim that the Mandate is still active, and has never been official terminated, it is just without a Mandatory.  The opposing claim is that under Chapter XII --- Article 77(1a) of the UN Charter _(territories now held under mandate)_, the territory to which the mandate applied was transferred to the International Trustee System.  However the Mandate, and the authority with it, appears to still be in effect in 1946 when the Mandatory recognized the Emir as the Sovereign over the nation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.







It does when the borders given happen to have been called Jewish Palestine, and the land known as Jordan was called arab Palestine.  And it is nice of you to admit that Palestine described in the mandate is all Jewish owned


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually it is NOT.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​
> The *Treaty of London* _(Anglo-Transjordanian Treaty)_ was signed between the United Kingdom and Transjordan on March 22, 1946 and came into force on June 17, 1946
> 
> The Making of Transjordan (Request Rejected
> On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the *Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As the area to which the Mandate for Palestine changes, so does the territory; and by definition, the area described as Palestine.
> 
> When Jordan was granted independence _(His Majesty The King recognizes Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.) _and the Mandate for Palestine no longer applied to Transjordan, by definition "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine," also changed.
> 
> Now, some claim that the Mandate is still active, and has never been official terminated, it is just without a Mandatory.  The opposing claim is that under Chapter XII --- Article 77(1a) of the UN Charter _(territories now held under mandate_, the territory to which the mandate applied was transferred to the International Trustee System.  However the Mandate, and the authority with it, appears to still be in effect in 1946 when the Mandatory recognized the Emir as the Sovereign over the nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."

Why do you keep posting this? Legally there was no Palestine until 1924.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 53.
> TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So which International laws did these treaties conflict with then, give details of the Laws and dates of implementation.
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain why you manipulated the cut and paste to say other than its intended context
> 
> 
> 
> _Article 53. _TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM
> 
> OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory
> 
> norm of general international law. *For the purposes of the present Convention, a
> 
> 
> peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by
> 
> 
> the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no deroga
> 
> 
> tion is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general in
> 
> 
> ternational law having the same character.*
> 
> 
> 
> Destroys your whole argument when it is posted in full
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that change anything? It is merely a clarification.
Click to expand...





 YEP it very clearly says that the rule can not be used retrospectively and that it does apply to any treaty made under international law prior to the date of the resolution. It also says *peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by he international community of States .   
You really need to learn English*


----------



## Phoenall

++-


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> This discussion goes in circles.  You should stop this line of discussion because no matter what you put in front of P F Tinmore, no agreement, no treaty, no reality on the ground is going to alter his perception that somehow the territory to which the Mandate applied --- all belongs to Palestine today.
> 
> And this belief is what continues to feed the Arab-Israeli Conflict.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and when I ask for proof otherwise I always get a song and dance.
Click to expand...





 Which is what you get in full and explained in detail, so you cant refute the answer . So all you can do is complain about the length of the answer because you cant take it all in.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually it is NOT.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​
> The *Treaty of London* _(Anglo-Transjordanian Treaty)_ was signed between the United Kingdom and Transjordan on March 22, 1946 and came into force on June 17, 1946
> 
> The Making of Transjordan
> On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the *Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As the area to which the Mandate for Palestine changes, so does the territory; and by definition, the area described as Palestine.
> 
> When Jordan was granted independence _(His Majesty The King recognizes Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.) _and the Mandate for Palestine no longer applied to Transjordan, by definition "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine," also changed.
> 
> Now, some claim that the Mandate is still active, and has never been official terminated, it is just without a Mandatory.  The opposing claim is that under Chapter XII --- Article 77(1a) of the UN Charter _(territories now held under mandate)_, the territory to which the mandate applied was transferred to the International Trustee System.  However the Mandate, and the authority with it, appears to still be in effect in 1946 when the Mandatory recognized the Emir as the Sovereign over the nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.

"X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.

Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. 

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually it is NOT.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​
> The *Treaty of London* _(Anglo-Transjordanian Treaty)_ was signed between the United Kingdom and Transjordan on March 22, 1946 and came into force on June 17, 1946
> 
> The Making of Transjordan (Request Rejected
> On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the *Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As the area to which the Mandate for Palestine changes, so does the territory; and by definition, the area described as Palestine.
> 
> When Jordan was granted independence _(His Majesty The King recognizes Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.) _and the Mandate for Palestine no longer applied to Transjordan, by definition "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine," also changed.
> 
> Now, some claim that the Mandate is still active, and has never been official terminated, it is just without a Mandatory.  The opposing claim is that under Chapter XII --- Article 77(1a) of the UN Charter _(territories now held under mandate_, the territory to which the mandate applied was transferred to the International Trustee System.  However the Mandate, and the authority with it, appears to still be in effect in 1946 when the Mandatory recognized the Emir as the Sovereign over the nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> Why do you keep posting this? Legally there was no Palestine until 1924.
Click to expand...






Depends on what you mean by Palestine, if you mean the area of land named by the Roman invaders then that is legally represented, if you mean the area destined for the mandate of Palestine then that came about legally in 1917. Then if you are being stupid and meaning the Mandate of Palestine that you try and pass of as the nation of Palestine then that is just propaganda.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually it is NOT.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​
> The *Treaty of London* _(Anglo-Transjordanian Treaty)_ was signed between the United Kingdom and Transjordan on March 22, 1946 and came into force on June 17, 1946
> 
> The Making of Transjordan
> On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan. In exchange for providing military facilities within Transjordan, Britain continued to pay a financial subsidy and supported the Arab Legion. Two months later, on May 25, 1946, the Transjordanian parliament proclaimed Abdullah king, while officially changing the name of the country from the Emirate of Transjordan to the *Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As the area to which the Mandate for Palestine changes, so does the territory; and by definition, the area described as Palestine.
> 
> When Jordan was granted independence _(His Majesty The King recognizes Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.) _and the Mandate for Palestine no longer applied to Transjordan, by definition "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine," also changed.
> 
> Now, some claim that the Mandate is still active, and has never been official terminated, it is just without a Mandatory.  The opposing claim is that under Chapter XII --- Article 77(1a) of the UN Charter _(territories now held under mandate)_, the territory to which the mandate applied was transferred to the International Trustee System.  However the Mandate, and the authority with it, appears to still be in effect in 1946 when the Mandatory recognized the Emir as the Sovereign over the nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
Click to expand...





 Not according to the Mandate for Palestine that states that trans joran is part of the mandate for Palestine , and stayed as such until 1947


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Treaty of Lausanne did not change the basics that had been already applied; did not effect any of the Mandates.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep posting this? Legally there was no Palestine until 1924.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The League of Nations never abolished the Palestine Order in Council.  It was passed by the Council.


SECTION I. REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE FOR 1924:  31 DECEMBER 1924.
"The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government."​
The Treaty just "regularized" the status, it did not create the status or alter the status in reality.  Again, the Treaty does not mention Palestine, only the Syrian District.

Palestine was always within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers.  Your denial of the enemy occupation of the territory, the establishment of the survey in the territory, the San Remo decisions over the territory, the Mandate by the League of Nations for the territory, does not change the fact that it all happened; to include the League of Nations issuing the Palestine Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici, et al,

The territory to which the Mandate is applied.



montelatici said:


> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921



*(CLARIFICATION)*


M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:



"*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> 
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 53.
> TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf
Click to expand...


Where does it say 'void'?


P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because YOU don't recognize Israel, doesn't mean it's not there. 'Palestine' is at war with Israel and yes, they are neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the orange. What's so hard to understand ? A 3rd grader could comprehend this.
> 
> 
> 
> Why does every map in the world show Israel inside fake borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which authorative body says that they are fake, as in the UN who says they are valid.   They are the same borders granted under the mandate in 1923 as the extent of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is defined by armistice lines that are specifically not the be political or territorial borders. The UN does not recognize those borders. Israel does not recognize those borders.
> 
> The armistice lines are not just around Gaza and the West Bank. The armistice lines also follow the international borders between Palestine and its neighbors. (except for some areas of occupation) These armistice lines did not change any international borders. None of these borders are disputed.
> 
> Israel is 100% inside armistice lines that are not borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the negotiated borders with Egypt and Jordan that put Palestine inside Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 53.
> TREATIES CONFLICTING WITH A PEREMPTORY NORM OF GENERAL INTERNATIONAL LAW ("JUS COGENS")
> 
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf
Click to expand...


Concerning your post about Israel 100% being inside armistice lines

You're a fuckin liar, you know that ? We have already debated this and I destroyed your "Israel has no borders" lie

I provided plenty of evidence that CLEARLY show Israel inside internationally recognized boundaries. You on the other hand provided ZERO evidence for your claim.

So, if you want to compare our evidence again, lt me know. But I suspect you will decline because you know I will make a fool out of you again. 

Stop lying. Just admit that you do not recognize Israel.

Oh, and remember: Tinmore laws DO NOT appply to real life.


----------



## Art__Allm

Statistikhengst said:


> Du musstest unbedingt in ein solches Wespennest herumstochern, nicht wahr?
> 
> Damn.
> 
> Jetzt muss ich Dich mit allen Kräften schööön peitschen.
> 
> Wenn ich höre, daß ein Deutscher über die Juden so herfällt, reagiere ich GANZ allergisch darauf.
> 
> Arschloch.




Another example of ad-hominem and anti-German hate, expressed in German language (is this permissible in an English forum?), but still no counter arguments.

My opponents do not even try to attack my arguments, they only are able to attack my personality, and their "argument" goes like that: If you are of German ancestry, then you have to close an eye on the crimes of Zionists.



I think that this "argument" is a racist anti-German pseudo-argument.

This hasbara-tactic is implying a collective responsibility of one group of people (Germans, born after war) and the collective irresponsibility of another group of people (Jews, that can get away with the crimes of Zionists against Palestinians, that are committed TODAY!!!).

This double standard is applied  due to the different bloodline of the two groups of people that are mentioned above, ant this is pure racism!!!

How can my bloodline have any influence on the validity of my arguments?

My arguments are true or false, if you believe that they are false, then attack my arguments without making any insinuation about my bloodline.

And please do this in the language that is accepted in this forum.

I also have an opinion about your personality, but I will not make any comments about you, because this is irrelevant.

Even biggest a**holes can have valid arguments or counter arguments, but you have not put forward any arguments, you just attacked me personally.

I am a grown up person, and I will not engage in an infantile name calling.

So please put up or just shut up!


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
Click to expand...






The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate


Article 25

In the territories lying between the *Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined,* the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.


 So as the Mandate shows you are LYING AGAIN and it covered Jordan right up until 1947


----------



## CMike

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question I am just finishing a book on the 1967 war. Great book by Michael Oren.
> 
> Nassar blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.
> 
> There were daily incursions attacking Israel.
> 
> Nassar was amasssing Egyptian troops on the border.
> 
> And Nasser was threatening repeatedly that he will annihilate Israel.
> 
> However if we are talking about Jordan and the West Bank. Israel pleaded with Jordan to stay out of the war.
> 
> King Hussein of Jordan attacked Israel. In the course of it, Jordan lost the West Bank, and their hold on Jerusalem.
> 
> Also, Syria was shooting artillery at Israeli Kibbutizim without Israel even engaging with Syria. Syria wouldn't stop so they lost the Golan Heights.
> 
> Seems like he should have taken Israel's advice and stayed out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Michael Oren
> 
> And you talk about my sources. You scrape the bottom of the barrel.
Click to expand...

Let's take it one at a time.

Which one do you deny?

Right before the 1967 way 
Egypt
Closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.

Amassed troops right on the border

Violated Israel's airspace with planes

Infilitrated and attacked Israelis in Israel

Nassar called repeatedly for Israel's annihilitation

Israel asked Jordan numerous times to stay out of the war, and Jordan did not.

Which one are you challenging?


----------



## CMike

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question I am just finishing a book on the 1967 war. Great book by Michael Oren.
> 
> Nassar blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israel which within itself was an act of war.
> 
> There were daily incursions attacking Israel.
> 
> Nassar was amasssing Egyptian troops on the border.
> 
> And Nasser was threatening repeatedly that he will annihilate Israel.
> 
> However if we are talking about Jordan and the West Bank. Israel pleaded with Jordan to stay out of the war.
> 
> King Hussein of Jordan attacked Israel. In the course of it, Jordan lost the West Bank, and their hold on Jerusalem.
> 
> Also, Syria was shooting artillery at Israeli Kibbutizim without Israel even engaging with Syria. Syria wouldn't stop so they lost the Golan Heights.
> 
> Seems like he should have taken Israel's advice and stayed out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Michael Oren, you mean the American born US citizen that decided to become an Israeli citizen.  As an American, I don't like people that prefer to become citizens of foreign countries.  Nor do I believe anything that turncoats write.
Click to expand...

And I should care what you think because?


----------



## CMike

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/Palestine wouldn't have lost the land if it didn't attack Israel in 1967 for the purpose of annihilating it.
> 
> I doesn't get a redo now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can that be, the Israelis started the 1967 war.  From the CIA website.
> 
> "Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.) "
> 
> CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firing first does not mean they started the war, read about Operation Dawn and how the Russian ambassador woke Nasser in the early hours to tell him he was unable to support the attack on Israel planned for that day
Click to expand...

Exactly right. Egypt was planning to attack Israel before Israel attacked in Operation Dawn. However, it was postponed.

One of my favorite parts was the US was neutral. They wouldn't even sell arms to Israel during this time.

Yet the arab countries after they got their butts kicked falsely accused the US of fighting alongside Israel.


----------



## CMike

montelatici said:


> I am not sure what your point is Rocco.  By definition, the area that was geographically defined as Palestine by the text in the Mandate, is the area that is Palestine.  The fact that a group of Europeans named a large part of it Israel doesn't change the borders of the Palestine described in the Mandate.


There never was an independent mulsim country names Palestine.

Actually the country of Palestine is called Jordan whose 60% of their population were from the British colony of Palestine.


----------



## CMike

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
Click to expand...

And that country is Palestine.

Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders. 

1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory

2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.


----------



## P F Tinmore

CMike said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
Click to expand...

1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory

Why would there be, or why should there be?


----------



## CMike

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
Click to expand...

Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.

But alas they didn't.

This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
Click to expand...


Umm, according to you Jordanians and Palestinians aren't the same people.  In fact, I remember you saying that the Jordanians occupied part of Palestine at one point.  So what are you talking about now?  Have you changed your view and now agree with us that there is no difference between Jordanians and Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

CMike said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
Click to expand...

But they did. They declared independence in 1948.


----------



## CMike

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
Click to expand...

Which the arabs didn't recognize. 

They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.

If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.


----------



## P F Tinmore

CMike said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
Click to expand...

Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.

Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.

You need to read up.


----------



## CMike

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
Click to expand...

I am well read up.

The five armies invaded and attacked Israel for the sole purpose of annihilating her.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

That is a misrepresentation of the facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Israel, after the declaration -- but before the attack, conformed to the allocation derived from Resolution 181(II).  Yes it was an allocated portion of the territory to which the Mandate applied.  And it was not sovereign Arab territory.  Once the Provisional Government exercised their right to self-determination, in accordance with the instructions under the Partition Plan, that territory was no longer the former territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, but became the Jewish State pursuant to the Partition Plan.

The multination Arab Force was attacking the Newly Established State of Israel, and not Palestine --- not matter how it is framed.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

CMike said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am well read up.
> 
> The five armies invaded and attacked Israel for the sole purpose of annihilating her.
Click to expand...

On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, *entered Palestine *-

1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> That is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel, after the declaration -- but before the attack, conformed to the allocation derived from Resolution 181(II).  Yes it was an allocated portion of the territory to which the Mandate applied.  And it was not sovereign Arab territory.  Once the Provisional Government exercised their right to self-determination, in accordance with the instructions under the Partition Plan, that territory was no longer the former territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, but became the Jewish State pursuant to the Partition Plan.
> 
> The multination Arab Force was attacking the Newly Established State of Israel, and not Palestine --- not matter how it is framed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Load of crap, Rocco. You know the Security Council never implemented that plan. No territory was given to Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  

Again, a misrepresentation of the facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> That is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> 
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel, after the declaration -- but before the attack, conformed to the allocation derived from Resolution 181(II).  Yes it was an allocated portion of the territory to which the Mandate applied.  And it was not sovereign Arab territory.  Once the Provisional Government exercised their right to self-determination, in accordance with the instructions under the Partition Plan, that territory was no longer the former territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, but became the Jewish State pursuant to the Partition Plan.
> 
> The multination Arab Force was attacking the Newly Established State of Israel, and not Palestine --- not matter how it is framed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of crap, Rocco. You know the Security Council never implemented that plan. No territory was given to Israel.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC), the successor government, was charged with the implementation of the Resolution 181(II) per Part I --- Section B --- Paragraph 14.

14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue.

The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.​
The UN Press and Publications Bureau, released an official announcement (Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948) pertaining to the implementation of the resolution, as part of the official record, on behalf of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC).  In part it said:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the *resolution of last November 29 has been implemented.*"​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Rocco, The area for the territory of Trans-Jordanian was accounted for separately.  A Mandate is a piece of paper not a territory.
> 
> "X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is *the territory of Trans-Jordania*. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people.
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
Click to expand...






Then why the sudden clamour for a Palestine when Israel occupied the land, and then the sudden stop when they realised they stood to lose all their hand outs


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate is applied.
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> 
> M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:
> 
> 
> 
> "*There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council* that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of *all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 15th session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 19 July 1929 ​
> Thus --- there should be no doubt in your mind.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
Click to expand...






 Nope as it was not all of Palestine just the gaza strip and it was done by Egyptians from Cairo and not palestinians


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
Click to expand...




So do you as Palestine was a mandate and not a nation, and the arab league fought the Jews inside the mandate and then inside Israel.  AND THEY LOST THE WAR AND EVERY ONE SINCE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
Click to expand...






 When was Israel accepted as a state by the Mandate/UN    then when was Palestine accepted as a state by the mandate/UN.  If Israel was accepted in May 1948 then how could Palestine claim the same land at a later date. The way you are talking Israel could now claim Saudi, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon and the world would be forced to accept their ownership and help them to rid their country of undesirables


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> That is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> 
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel, after the declaration -- but before the attack, conformed to the allocation derived from Resolution 181(II).  Yes it was an allocated portion of the territory to which the Mandate applied.  And it was not sovereign Arab territory.  Once the Provisional Government exercised their right to self-determination, in accordance with the instructions under the Partition Plan, that territory was no longer the former territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, but became the Jewish State pursuant to the Partition Plan.
> 
> The multination Arab Force was attacking the Newly Established State of Israel, and not Palestine --- not matter how it is framed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of crap, Rocco. You know the Security Council never implemented that plan. No territory was given to Israel.
Click to expand...






Beside the point as the Mandate then came into force and as the mandatory the UN had to accept the declaration. The land had been given in 1923 under the mandate of Palestine, just as trans Jordan was given under the same mandate.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> 
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am well read up.
> 
> The five armies invaded and attacked Israel for the sole purpose of annihilating her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, *entered Palestine *-
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...






 Yes Palestine as in Mandate of Palestine and not nation of Palestine. No nation of Palestine existed until 1988 under International law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There should be no doubt in your mind that Trans-Jordania was accounted for as a separate territory with the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope as it was not all of Palestine just the gaza strip and it was done by Egyptians from Cairo and not palestinians
Click to expand...

Who said it was just the Gaza strip? The Palestinians declared independence in 1948 inside their defined territory. There was no Gaza Strip until 1949.

And Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. And Israel had no defined territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am well read up.
> 
> The five armies invaded and attacked Israel for the sole purpose of annihilating her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, *entered Palestine *-
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Palestine as in Mandate of Palestine and not nation of Palestine. No nation of Palestine existed until 1988 under International law.
Click to expand...

For the Mandates Commission, Palestine had never ceased to constitute a separate entity. It was one of those territories which, under the terms of the Covenant, might be regarded as "provisionally independent". The country was administered under an A mandate by the United Kingdom, subject to certain conditions and particularly to the condition appearing in Article 5: "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be . . . in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power".

Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them _on her behalf,_ in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937 ​
Who would know more than the Mandates Commission?

3. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia and Zimbabwe, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, and national unity and sovereignty without external interference; A RES 33 24 of 29 November 1978​
What is territorial integrity if there is no territory?

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:

 (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

 (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974​
How can there be an "in Palestine" if there is no Palestine?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that country is Palestine.
> 
> Obviously this has nothing to do with 1967 borders.
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> 2) The arab countries wanted to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel before 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There was no call among the arabs for a "palestine" when Jordan controlled the territory
> 
> Why would there be, or why should there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the arabs supposedly consider that land palestine. Therefore under Jordanian rule they should also be demanding a free palestine.
> 
> But alas they didn't.
> 
> This shows that this was never about a land. It's about the arab government's refusal to recognize Israel in any form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did. They declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope as it was not all of Palestine just the gaza strip and it was done by Egyptians from Cairo and not palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said it was just the Gaza strip? The Palestinians declared independence in 1948 inside their defined territory. There was no Gaza Strip until 1949.
> 
> And Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. And Israel had no defined territory.
Click to expand...





 The group that declared independence only represented the gaza strip as the rest of the arab league rejected them in favour  of Jordan.

Which was accepted as the body representing Jewish interests by the sovereign owners of the land. So any move they made was acceptable under international law that also defined Israel's territory as shown many times by me. Now it is Palestine that has no defined territory and Israel has international borders accepted under treaty


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am well read up.
> 
> The five armies invaded and attacked Israel for the sole purpose of annihilating her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, *entered Palestine *-
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Palestine as in Mandate of Palestine and not nation of Palestine. No nation of Palestine existed until 1988 under International law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the Mandates Commission, Palestine had never ceased to constitute a separate entity. It was one of those territories which, under the terms of the Covenant, might be regarded as "provisionally independent". The country was administered under an A mandate by the United Kingdom, subject to certain conditions and particularly to the condition appearing in Article 5: "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be . . . in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power".
> 
> Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them _on her behalf,_ in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937 ​
> Who would know more than the Mandates Commission?
> 
> 3. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia and Zimbabwe, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, and national unity and sovereignty without external interference; A RES 33 24 of 29 November 1978​
> What is territorial integrity if there is no territory?
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974​
> How can there be an "in Palestine" if there is no Palestine?
Click to expand...





 WRONG AGAIN as it was never mentioned under the covenant as being a nation, and was so excluded.
 You confuse once again the mandate of Palestine with a non existent nation of Palestine. At no time during the mandats life was a nation of Palestine mentioned officially.
 The Nationality law was for occupants of the mandate of Palestine to be given an interim pseudo nationality as a british protectorate, which is why the passports and national identity papers bore the legend British Palestine and not nation of Palestine
 No where in the mandate can I find any reference to the nation of Palestine, you are being confused by the truncated form used by the LoN and Mandate that uses palestine to mean Mandate of Palestine as explained in the Mandate
 You cant retrospectively use a 1974 non binding UN resolution to force an issue that was rooted in 1923. If you want to play silly beggars than the P.A. accepted the terms of the UN resolutions that demand they negotiate peace and mutual borders.


----------



## Grau

Re: "Who are the Palestinians"

Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)

Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:

REPORT ON
PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922 
The census results were:--

Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408

In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.

In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.

Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.

Thanks

(1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

(2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which the arabs didn't recognize.
> 
> They attacked Israel the day Israel declared it's independence.
> 
> If they didn't recognize it when it occurred. It's too late to recognize it after they invaded and lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Five states recognized Palestine in 1948. Not that it matters. A state exists separate from recognition.
> 
> Israel wasn't attacked. The Arabs fought Israeli forces inside Palestine.
> 
> You need to read up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am well read up.
> 
> The five armies invaded and attacked Israel for the sole purpose of annihilating her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, *entered Palestine *-
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Palestine as in Mandate of Palestine and not nation of Palestine. No nation of Palestine existed until 1988 under International law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the Mandates Commission, Palestine had never ceased to constitute a separate entity. It was one of those territories which, under the terms of the Covenant, might be regarded as "provisionally independent". The country was administered under an A mandate by the United Kingdom, subject to certain conditions and particularly to the condition appearing in Article 5: "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be . . . in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power".
> 
> Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them _on her behalf,_ in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937 ​
> Who would know more than the Mandates Commission?
> 
> 3. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia and Zimbabwe, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, and national unity and sovereignty without external interference; A RES 33 24 of 29 November 1978​
> What is territorial integrity if there is no territory?
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974​
> How can there be an "in Palestine" if there is no Palestine?
Click to expand...


Palestine was the name of a region, like North America.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Grau said:


> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com



Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
Click to expand...


You don't know what the definition of genocide is.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
Click to expand...


What is the definition?


----------



## Phoenall

Grau said:


> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com







 International law of 1923 says you don't know what you are talking about, and just trot out the same old tired islaminazi propaganda that has been debunked many times in the past


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
Click to expand...







 Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
Click to expand...

Genocide is about actions not numbers.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
Click to expand...


The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
Click to expand...

Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.

Start @ 4:35 - 5:00

Start @ 32:35

During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.

Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.

Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.
> 
> Start @ 4:35 - 5:00
> 
> Start @ 32:35
> 
> During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.
> 
> Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.
> 
> Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.
Click to expand...


So you had to go back almost 7 decades to 'prove' Israel tried to genocide the Palestinians?

You obviously didn't read my post. The goal of the country committing the genocide is to erase most or an entire people. The Palestinian population has been growing for the last 100 years, not decreasing.

Palestinians and their supporters like to accuse Israel of many things, and deluded people like yourself eat it right up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.
> 
> Start @ 4:35 - 5:00
> 
> Start @ 32:35
> 
> During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.
> 
> Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.
> 
> Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you had to go back almost 7 decades to 'prove' Israel tried to genocide the Palestinians?
> 
> You obviously didn't read my post. The goal of the country committing the genocide is to erase most or an entire people. The Palestinian population has been growing for the last 100 years, not decreasing.
> 
> Palestinians and their supporters like to accuse Israel of many things, and deluded people like yourself eat it right up.
Click to expand...

Israel's actions of genocide continue to today. That they have not yet succeeded is irrelevant. They are still violations.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grau said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Who are the Palestinians"
> 
> Concerning "Who are the Palestinians", what first comes to mind is the unfortunate, truly Semitic, Levantine residents of Palestine who were forcibly displaced by first, Europe's Colonial Powers and finally Invading, Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs (Stern Gang, Irgun, Haganah etc)
> 
> Palestine's Ashkenazi Jewish population is a relatively recent phenomenon beginning to arrive in the 1880s until the first accurate & thorough census was taken by the British Occupiers in 1922:
> 
> REPORT ON
> PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.
> Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922
> The census results were:--
> 
> Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
> Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
> Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
> Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
> Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
> Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
> Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
> Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
> Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
> 
> In offering the Native Palestinians a fraction of the land that was already theirs,The Colonial Powers (aka U.N.) essentially gave a disproportionate part of Palestine to those Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs and recent Jewish arrivals.
> 
> In their ongoing  effort to steal all of Palestine, the same Zionist Terrorist Gangs composed Plan Dalet(1) which, like "the Final Solution" calls for the Extermination & Expulsion of all non Jewish residents from Palestine.
> 
> Haganah, with the aid of the German SS(2) became IDF and under subsequent Zionist Regimes frequently headed by infamous Mass Murdering War Criminals (Begin, Shamir, Sharon etc) has been implementing their Genocidal Plan Dalet until this day.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (1)  "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
> Israel s Plan Dalet The Green Light for Zionism s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 
> (2)   “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
> Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army - henrymakow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
Click to expand...







 And the action of Israel allows the Palestinians population to double every 5 years. Unlike the actions of the Palestinians in regards to the genocide of the Christians that has seen a 90% reduction in their population since 2007


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very poor genocide, since the Palestinians have multiplied exceedingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what the definition of genocide is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.
> 
> Start @ 4:35 - 5:00
> 
> Start @ 32:35
> 
> During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.
> 
> Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.
> 
> Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.
Click to expand...





 LINK from a non partisan source

 LINK from a non partisan source

 LINK from a non partisan source


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and it does not mean allowing the population to increase by 100% every 5 years
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.
> 
> Start @ 4:35 - 5:00
> 
> Start @ 32:35
> 
> During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.
> 
> Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.
> 
> Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you had to go back almost 7 decades to 'prove' Israel tried to genocide the Palestinians?
> 
> You obviously didn't read my post. The goal of the country committing the genocide is to erase most or an entire people. The Palestinian population has been growing for the last 100 years, not decreasing.
> 
> Palestinians and their supporters like to accuse Israel of many things, and deluded people like yourself eat it right up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's actions of genocide continue to today. That they have not yet succeeded is irrelevant. They are still violations.
Click to expand...






UNPROVEN by the authorities that matter. In fact it is denied outright in the UN


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide is about actions not numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.
> 
> Start @ 4:35 - 5:00
> 
> Start @ 32:35
> 
> During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.
> 
> Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.
> 
> Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you had to go back almost 7 decades to 'prove' Israel tried to genocide the Palestinians?
> 
> You obviously didn't read my post. The goal of the country committing the genocide is to erase most or an entire people. The Palestinian population has been growing for the last 100 years, not decreasing.
> 
> Palestinians and their supporters like to accuse Israel of many things, and deluded people like yourself eat it right up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's actions of genocide continue to today. That they have not yet succeeded is irrelevant. They are still violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNPROVEN by the authorities that matter. In fact it is denied outright in the UN
Click to expand...

Oh really?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The goal of the country allegedly committing genocide is to subsequently eliminate most of or an entire race, ethnic group, religion. Obviously, that is not the case with Israel. The Palestinian population has been growing over the last 100 years or so. Accusing Israel of genocide is just part of the Palestinian propaganda campaign targeting Israel. Looks like you feel for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the Zionists have always attempted to erase the Palestinians as a people.
> 
> Start @ 4:35 - 5:00
> 
> Start @ 32:35
> 
> During the 1948 war Israel stole or destroyed public and private libraries to erase the Palestinian's existence.
> 
> Physical evidence of destruction or denying access to means of survival are in the news all of the time. These include shelter, food, and water.
> 
> Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is just a well known fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you had to go back almost 7 decades to 'prove' Israel tried to genocide the Palestinians?
> 
> You obviously didn't read my post. The goal of the country committing the genocide is to erase most or an entire people. The Palestinian population has been growing for the last 100 years, not decreasing.
> 
> Palestinians and their supporters like to accuse Israel of many things, and deluded people like yourself eat it right up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's actions of genocide continue to today. That they have not yet succeeded is irrelevant. They are still violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNPROVEN by the authorities that matter. In fact it is denied outright in the UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really?
Click to expand...






 Yes or the ICC/ICJ would have issued arrest warrants for the Israeli leaders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Archbishop Atallah Hanna*

****


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Archbishop Atallah Hanna*
> 
> ****



It's no wonder this guy was arrested.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Archbishop Atallah Hanna*
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's no wonder this guy was arrested.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Archbishop Atallah Hanna*
> 
> ****








 What right of return is this then as there is no legal concept such as right of return


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Archbishop Atallah Hanna*
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's no wonder this guy was arrested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
Click to expand...







 What truth ?


----------



## Art__Allm

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.



Fully agree with you. 
And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
Click to expand...






While islamonazis and neo Marxists cheer from the sidelines after stabbing the participants in the back


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> While islamonazis ...



Still no counter-arguments, only name-calling and playing the old and tired Nazi-Card.

Why do Zio-Nazis constantly complain about the so-called "Islamo-Nazis"?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
Click to expand...


Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.
Click to expand...


What does Iraq have to do with Palestine?


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> While islamonazis ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still no counter-arguments, only name-calling and playing the old and tired Nazi-Card.
> 
> Why do Zio-Nazis constantly complain about the so-called "Islamo-Nazis"?
Click to expand...






Why do islamomorons constantly use this oxymoron, don't you understand you cant be a Zionist and a Nazi as they are polar opposites.
By the way islam was the original Nazi state if you look back to the founding and the pact of Omar.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Iraq have to do with Palestine?
Click to expand...






 A lot more than South Africa does when you look at where Iraq is.
 But just walk through Jerusalem wearing your crucifix and rosary and see which group attacks you first


----------



## Mindful

This should be interesting:

The Islamic State (ISIS) jihadist group seized control of most of the Yarmouk Palestinianrefugee camp in southernDamascusWednesday, a localPalestinianofficial told_AFP_.  

"Fighters from IS launched an assault this morning on Yarmouk and they took over the majority of the camp," said Anwar Abdel Hadi, director of political affairs for the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) in Damascus.  

Fighting was continuing inside the camp, he said.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based monitoring group, said ISIS was in control of a "large part" of the camp after fighting with Palestinian groups also opposed to President Bashar al-Assad's regime.  

ISIS Seizes Palestinian Camp in Syria - Middle East - News - Arutz Sheva


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Iraq have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot more than South Africa does when you look at where Iraq is.
> But just walk through Jerusalem wearing your crucifix and rosary and see which group attacks you first
Click to expand...



Is he still spouting his propaganda?


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Iraq have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot more than South Africa does when you look at where Iraq is.
> But just walk through Jerusalem wearing your crucifix and rosary and see which group attacks you first
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is he still spouting his propaganda?
Click to expand...







Yep


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> ... don't you understand you cant be a Zionist and a Nazi as they are polar opposites.




Here some quotes, educate yourself:



> In mid-1940, Stern became convinced that the Italians were interested in the establishment of a fascist Jewish state in Palestine.[4] He conducted negotiations, he thought, with the Italians via an intermediary Moshe Rotstein, and drew up a document that became known as the "Jerusalem Agreement".[4][41] In exchange for Italy's recognition of, and aid in obtaining, Jewish sovereignty over Palestine, Stern promised that Zionism would come under the aegis of Italian fascism, with Haifa as its base, and the Old City of Jerusalem under Vatican control, except for the Jewish quarter.[4] In Heller's words, Stern's proposal would "turn the 'Kingdom of Israel' into a satellite of the Axis powers."[4]
> 
> ...
> Late in 1940, Lehi, having identified a common interest between the intentions of the new German order and Jewish national aspirations, proposed forming an alliance in World War II with Nazi Germany.[2] It offered assistance in transferring the Jews of Europe to Palestine, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandatory Palestine.[_citation needed_] Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933).[_citation needed_] Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.[_citation needed_]
> 
> On the assumption that the destruction of Britain was the Germans' top objective, the organization offered cooperation in the following terms. Lehi would support sabotage and espionage operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had cells. Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers.
> 
> Stern also proposed recruiting some 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine with German support to oust the British.[2] On 11 January 1941, Vice Admiral Ralf von der Marwitz, the German Naval attaché in Turkey, filed a report (the "Ankara document") conveying an offer by Lehi to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich."[4][44]
> 
> Lehi group - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> A recent Zionist convert, the then world-famous popular biographer Emil Ludwig, was interviewed by a fellow Zionist on a visit to America
> and expressed the general attitude of the Zionist movement:
> 
> ...
> "the coming of the Nazis was rather a welcome thing. So many of our German Jews were hovering between two coasts; so many of them were riding the treacherous current between the Scylla of assimilation and the Charybdis of a nodding acquaintance with Jewish things.
> 
> Thousands who seemed to be completely lost to Judaism were brought back to the fold by Hitler, and for that I am personally very grateful to him." [3]
> 
> ...
> 
> "Yes, we Revisionists have a great admiration for Hitler. Hitler has saved Germany. Otherwise it would have perished within four years.
> 
> And if he had given up his anti-Semitism we would go with him. [2]
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism in the Age of the Dictators Lenni Brenner 9780985890995 Amazon.com Books


----------



## toastman

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... don't you understand you cant be a Zionist and a Nazi as they are polar opposites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here some quotes, educate yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In mid-1940, Stern became convinced that the Italians were interested in the establishment of a fascist Jewish state in Palestine.[4] He conducted negotiations, he thought, with the Italians via an intermediary Moshe Rotstein, and drew up a document that became known as the "Jerusalem Agreement".[4][41] In exchange for Italy's recognition of, and aid in obtaining, Jewish sovereignty over Palestine, Stern promised that Zionism would come under the aegis of Italian fascism, with Haifa as its base, and the Old City of Jerusalem under Vatican control, except for the Jewish quarter.[4] In Heller's words, Stern's proposal would "turn the 'Kingdom of Israel' into a satellite of the Axis powers."[4]
> 
> ...
> Late in 1940, Lehi, having identified a common interest between the intentions of the new German order and Jewish national aspirations, proposed forming an alliance in World War II with Nazi Germany.[2] It offered assistance in transferring the Jews of Europe to Palestine, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandatory Palestine.[_citation needed_] Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933).[_citation needed_] Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.[_citation needed_]
> 
> On the assumption that the destruction of Britain was the Germans' top objective, the organization offered cooperation in the following terms. Lehi would support sabotage and espionage operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had cells. Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers.
> 
> Stern also proposed recruiting some 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine with German support to oust the British.[2] On 11 January 1941, Vice Admiral Ralf von der Marwitz, the German Naval attaché in Turkey, filed a report (the "Ankara document") conveying an offer by Lehi to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich."[4][44]
> 
> Lehi group - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> A recent Zionist convert, the then world-famous popular biographer Emil Ludwig, was interviewed by a fellow Zionist on a visit to America
> and expressed the general attitude of the Zionist movement:
> 
> ...
> "the coming of the Nazis was rather a welcome thing. So many of our German Jews were hovering between two coasts; so many of them were riding the treacherous current between the Scylla of assimilation and the Charybdis of a nodding acquaintance with Jewish things.
> 
> Thousands who seemed to be completely lost to Judaism were brought back to the fold by Hitler, and for that I am personally very grateful to him." [3]
> 
> ...
> 
> "Yes, we Revisionists have a great admiration for Hitler. Hitler has saved Germany. Otherwise it would have perished within four years.
> 
> And if he had given up his anti-Semitism we would go with him. [2]
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism in the Age of the Dictators Lenni Brenner 9780985890995 Amazon.com Books
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What conflicts has ISrael created between Christians and Muslims?


----------



## toastman

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel hates Christians and can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Iraq have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot more than South Africa does when you look at where Iraq is.
> But just walk through Jerusalem wearing your crucifix and rosary and see which group attacks you first
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is he still spouting his propaganda?
Click to expand...


When does he not ?


----------



## Mindful

toastman said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with you.
> And Zionists are eager to crate conflicts between Muslims and Christians, and they have succeeded with their efforts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to Iraq, proclaim your Christianity with a cross around your neck, and say, "I love you Muslims, and I don't care what the Jews say."  Write us an email about your reception there.  I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Iraq have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot more than South Africa does when you look at where Iraq is.
> But just walk through Jerusalem wearing your crucifix and rosary and see which group attacks you first
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is he still spouting his propaganda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When does he not ?
Click to expand...


Good question. I should have put it that way in the beginning.

Not to forget the other rodent.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Mindful

This is how to give the finger to the UN.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... don't you understand you cant be a Zionist and a Nazi as they are polar opposites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here some quotes, educate yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In mid-1940, Stern became convinced that the Italians were interested in the establishment of a fascist Jewish state in Palestine.[4] He conducted negotiations, he thought, with the Italians via an intermediary Moshe Rotstein, and drew up a document that became known as the "Jerusalem Agreement".[4][41] In exchange for Italy's recognition of, and aid in obtaining, Jewish sovereignty over Palestine, Stern promised that Zionism would come under the aegis of Italian fascism, with Haifa as its base, and the Old City of Jerusalem under Vatican control, except for the Jewish quarter.[4] In Heller's words, Stern's proposal would "turn the 'Kingdom of Israel' into a satellite of the Axis powers."[4]
> 
> ...
> Late in 1940, Lehi, having identified a common interest between the intentions of the new German order and Jewish national aspirations, proposed forming an alliance in World War II with Nazi Germany.[2] It offered assistance in transferring the Jews of Europe to Palestine, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandatory Palestine.[_citation needed_] Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933).[_citation needed_] Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.[_citation needed_]
> 
> On the assumption that the destruction of Britain was the Germans' top objective, the organization offered cooperation in the following terms. Lehi would support sabotage and espionage operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had cells. Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers.
> 
> Stern also proposed recruiting some 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine with German support to oust the British.[2] On 11 January 1941, Vice Admiral Ralf von der Marwitz, the German Naval attaché in Turkey, filed a report (the "Ankara document") conveying an offer by Lehi to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich."[4][44]
> 
> Lehi group - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> A recent Zionist convert, the then world-famous popular biographer Emil Ludwig, was interviewed by a fellow Zionist on a visit to America
> and expressed the general attitude of the Zionist movement:
> 
> ...
> "the coming of the Nazis was rather a welcome thing. So many of our German Jews were hovering between two coasts; so many of them were riding the treacherous current between the Scylla of assimilation and the Charybdis of a nodding acquaintance with Jewish things.
> 
> Thousands who seemed to be completely lost to Judaism were brought back to the fold by Hitler, and for that I am personally very grateful to him." [3]
> 
> ...
> 
> "Yes, we Revisionists have a great admiration for Hitler. Hitler has saved Germany. Otherwise it would have perished within four years.
> 
> And if he had given up his anti-Semitism we would go with him. [2]
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism in the Age of the Dictators Lenni Brenner 9780985890995 Amazon.com Books
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...







 Just more islamonazi propaganda lies from islamonazi sources, ask freddy boy about wiki and how he alters/edits the articles posted.


----------



## Mindful

*A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*


A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict


You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????

I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.

No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... don't you understand you cant be a Zionist and a Nazi as they are polar opposites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here some quotes, educate yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In mid-1940, Stern became convinced that the Italians were interested in the establishment of a fascist Jewish state in Palestine.[4] He conducted negotiations, he thought, with the Italians via an intermediary Moshe Rotstein, and drew up a document that became known as the "Jerusalem Agreement".[4][41] In exchange for Italy's recognition of, and aid in obtaining, Jewish sovereignty over Palestine, Stern promised that Zionism would come under the aegis of Italian fascism, with Haifa as its base, and the Old City of Jerusalem under Vatican control, except for the Jewish quarter.[4] In Heller's words, Stern's proposal would "turn the 'Kingdom of Israel' into a satellite of the Axis powers."[4]
> 
> ...
> Late in 1940, Lehi, having identified a common interest between the intentions of the new German order and Jewish national aspirations, proposed forming an alliance in World War II with Nazi Germany.[2] It offered assistance in transferring the Jews of Europe to Palestine, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandatory Palestine.[_citation needed_] Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933).[_citation needed_] Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.[_citation needed_]
> 
> On the assumption that the destruction of Britain was the Germans' top objective, the organization offered cooperation in the following terms. Lehi would support sabotage and espionage operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had cells. Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers.
> 
> Stern also proposed recruiting some 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine with German support to oust the British.[2] On 11 January 1941, Vice Admiral Ralf von der Marwitz, the German Naval attaché in Turkey, filed a report (the "Ankara document") conveying an offer by Lehi to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich."[4][44]
> 
> Lehi group - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> A recent Zionist convert, the then world-famous popular biographer Emil Ludwig, was interviewed by a fellow Zionist on a visit to America
> and expressed the general attitude of the Zionist movement:
> 
> ...
> "the coming of the Nazis was rather a welcome thing. So many of our German Jews were hovering between two coasts; so many of them were riding the treacherous current between the Scylla of assimilation and the Charybdis of a nodding acquaintance with Jewish things.
> 
> Thousands who seemed to be completely lost to Judaism were brought back to the fold by Hitler, and for that I am personally very grateful to him." [3]
> 
> ...
> 
> "Yes, we Revisionists have a great admiration for Hitler. Hitler has saved Germany. Otherwise it would have perished within four years.
> 
> And if he had given up his anti-Semitism we would go with him. [2]
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism in the Age of the Dictators Lenni Brenner 9780985890995 Amazon.com Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more islamonazi propaganda lies from islamonazi sources, ask freddy boy about wiki and how he alters/edits the articles posted.
Click to expand...

Funny Comment considering you have JEWISH NAZIS in Israel today,causing much havoc......but Spew Bullshit till the Cows Come Home..Dickhead.


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> This is how to give the finger to the UN.


Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick..big mistake............................Let me explain to the folks on here,just who Col.,Richard Kemp the Ex British Officer is in this Vid.,  NONE OTHER THAN the Religious Fundamentalist,...wait for it..........CHRISTIAN ZIONIST...Totally Pro-Zionist,so much so that the Israeli Government deem him an "Honorary Jew" his testimony is Bullshit,He is Bullshit and you Mindless are Bullshit.

You post with No qualification,or truth....you are as we say in Paradise "A LYING BULLSHITTER" and a disgrace.......you assumed everyone would think "O a British ex Officer he must be credible"  Sorry neither he or you are Credible in Any Way.But keep trying with your Mindless Crap.

We are just a little Cleverer than you Moron and so much more Credible and TRUTHFUL

Get a Life


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
Click to expand...



I'm not telling you anything.

Except........shut up


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
Click to expand...



I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


>


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling you anything.
> 
> Except........shut up
Click to expand...

I CAUGHT YOU AND YOUR JEWISH DECEIT


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
Click to expand...

EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
Click to expand...



Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.
Click to expand...

Not normally but being as you are A TWO-BIT LIAR,of course I should deal with you in this manner,but what annoyed me most was your DECEITFULLNESS....... I would never deny you your opinion and thoughts ever and in fact, fight anyone who would deny you Mindful,,,,,BUT DECEIT IN THE WAY YOU POSTED,I cannot abide or understand Mindful..........I know you knew the facts because you are far from Stupid in fact quite the reverse,just be honest that's all.regards steven..have a nice day.


----------



## theliq

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not normally but being as you are A TWO-BIT LIAR,of course I should deal with you in this manner,but what annoyed me most was your DECEITFULLNESS....... I would never deny you your opinion and thoughts ever and in fact, fight anyone who would deny you Mindful,,,,,BUT DECEIT IN THE WAY YOU POSTED,I cannot abide or understand Mindful..........I know you knew the facts because you are far from Stupid in fact quite the reverse,just be honest that's all.regards steven..have a nice day.
Click to expand...


There is nothing wrong with me,but I do like honesty,otherwise how can we really dialogue without trust,tell me that.


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not normally but being as you are A TWO-BIT LIAR,of course I should deal with you in this manner,but what annoyed me most was your DECEITFULLNESS....... I would never deny you your opinion and thoughts ever and in fact, fight anyone who would deny you Mindful,,,,,BUT DECEIT IN THE WAY YOU POSTED,I cannot abide or understand Mindful..........I know you knew the facts because you are far from Stupid in fact quite the reverse,just be honest that's all.regards steven..have a nice day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with me,but I do like honesty,otherwise how can we really dialogue without trust,tell me that.
Click to expand...



Here's me being honest:  you're a twit.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling you anything.
> 
> Except........shut up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I CAUGHT YOU AND YOUR JEWISH DECEIT
Click to expand...





 Lets see then in the 17C the al aqsa mosque was derelict as no muslims bothered with it, at that time it was just another mosque and held no significance to islam.     So looks like it is your islamonazi deciet


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling you anything.
> 
> Except........shut up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I CAUGHT YOU AND YOUR JEWISH DECEIT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see then in the 17C the al aqsa mosque was derelict as no muslims bothered with it, at that time it was just another mosque and held no significance to islam.     So looks like it is your islamonazi deciet
Click to expand...


I'm wondering what he meant by *Jewish *deceit.


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.
Click to expand...






 Common practise with muslims to be aggressive and insulting when they think they are safe, then to whine and whinge when they find they aren't


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Common practise with muslims to be aggressive and insulting when they think they are safe, then to whine and whinge when they find they aren't
Click to expand...


They don't have to be Muslims to be inadequate losers, only self validating through the Internet.


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling you anything.
> 
> Except........shut up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I CAUGHT YOU AND YOUR JEWISH DECEIT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see then in the 17C the al aqsa mosque was derelict as no muslims bothered with it, at that time it was just another mosque and held no significance to islam.     So looks like it is your islamonazi deciet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm wondering what he meant by *Jewish *deceit.
Click to expand...

Well Pro-Zionists,many on here are deceitful


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling you anything.
> 
> Except........shut up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I CAUGHT YOU AND YOUR JEWISH DECEIT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see then in the 17C the al aqsa mosque was derelict as no muslims bothered with it, at that time it was just another mosque and held no significance to islam.     So looks like it is your islamonazi deciet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm wondering what he meant by *Jewish *deceit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well Pro-Zionists,many on here are deceitful
Click to expand...


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how to give the finger to the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,Well,Well Mindless.......You must assume I am thick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even have to assume it. It's self evident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXPOSED AS A TWO BIT LIAR........AND AS DECEITFUL AS HELL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you normally talk to  srrangers on the internet like that? Must be something wrong with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Common practise with muslims to be aggressive and insulting when they think they are safe, then to whine and whinge when they find they aren't
Click to expand...

Very Funny coming from you...Actually Mindful was very deceitful in this instance...........and although everyone to you is a Muslim,wether they be Christian,Hindu,Janne or Coptic etc., silly boy....it's everyone who criticizes Israel?Zionists. get real.but whinge on


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or “Palestinians”*
> 
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695 No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling me that an 17 year old boy from the Netherlands,travelled to Palestine in 1693,sorry I don't believe this,most scholars believe that Adrian Reland Never left the Netherlands,.....he stated (according to this tripe) that there were only Jews and Christians in Jerusalem,which begs the question WHO LOOKED AFTER THE Al-Aksa Mosque !!!!!!!!!!,this book has so many erroneous statements riddled through it as not to be taken seriously by modern scholars,........he probably thought the earth was flat??????
> 
> I note it has been taken up by various Jewish entities,which suits their corrupt view of history of course,and their current thinking that Palestine was empty before the Zionists Violent and Barbaric take over of Palestine in 1948......It is a shabby document the Israelis are purloining here to justify their lie of the empty country bullshit before annexation of Palestine.Disgusting as that WAS/IS.
> 
> No Mindless ,.......You will have to do a lot better than this TRIPE.steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not telling you anything.
> 
> Except........shut up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I CAUGHT YOU AND YOUR JEWISH DECEIT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How silly during the 17th Century the Issa Minaret was rebuit,so your Zionist Summation is bulldust like all you posts, now SOD OFF
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see then in the 17C the al aqsa mosque was derelict as no muslims bothered with it, at that time it was just another mosque and held no significance to islam.     So looks like it is your islamonazi deciet
Click to expand...


----------



## Mindful




----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


>


HoHo.........BUT IT WAS YOU THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A LIAR AND FULL OF DECEIT,so your response is thus,so you'll get a few laughs Ho,HO but the fact remains that you are the GUILTY.........like all Zionist Trash........the joke is on you LOL,fcuk wit


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HoHo.........BUT IT WAS YOU THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A LIAR AND FULL OF DECEIT,so your response is thus,so you'll get a few laughs Ho,HO but the fact remains that you are the GUILTY.........like all Zionist Trash........the joke is on you LOL,fcuk wit
Click to expand...


I'll bear that in mind.

In the meantime:


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HoHo.........BUT IT WAS YOU THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A LIAR AND FULL OF DECEIT,so your response is thus,so you'll get a few laughs Ho,HO but the fact remains that you are the GUILTY.........like all Zionist Trash........the joke is on you LOL,fcuk wit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll bear that in mind.
> 
> In the meantime:
Click to expand...

Hi Mindful,But Why a GI  from WW2 in the above poster?I actually don't mind you so I am not arguing with you to and froe anymore........,just think what you are posting in the future.

So I'll shut the FCUK up,if you will...........gentleman steven.....Lady have a Nice Day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Fida Qishta*

**


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HoHo.........BUT IT WAS YOU THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A LIAR AND FULL OF DECEIT,so your response is thus,so you'll get a few laughs Ho,HO but the fact remains that you are the GUILTY.........like all Zionist Trash........the joke is on you LOL,fcuk wit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll bear that in mind.
> 
> In the meantime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Mindful,But Why a GI  from WW2 in the above poster?I actually don't mind you so I am not arguing with you to and froe anymore........,just think what you are posting in the future.
> 
> So I'll shut the FCUK up,if you will...........gentleman steven.....Lady have a Nice Day.
Click to expand...



I did, all day on the beach.


----------



## Phoenall

Only if you believe the islamonazi propaganda and lies posted on here


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Who are the Palestinians?*

*



*

**


----------



## Art__Allm

theliq said:


> There is nothing wrong with me,but I do like honesty,otherwise how can we really dialogue without trust,tell me that.



Many Zionist supremacists do not care about the truth or honesty, they use terms, like "hate", "hater", to prevent any honest discussion.

They themselves hate the truth and honesty, and they call these things "hate speach", because they hate it.

This psychological phenomenon is called projection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## toastman

Art__Allm said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with me,but I do like honesty,otherwise how can we really dialogue without trust,tell me that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist supremacists do not care about the truth or honesty, they use terms, like "hate".
> 
> They themselves hate the truth and honesty, and they call these things "hate speach", because they hate it.
> 
> This psychological phenomenon is called projection.
Click to expand...


Wow, what you just said perfectly described pro Palestinians like yourself. They are allergic to the truth.


----------



## fanger

Allergic to the Hasbara you swallow and regurgitate, thinking it is a truth, as it suits your mindset


----------



## Art__Allm

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*




Fully agree with Ali Abunimah.
Zionists have already stolen too much Palestinian land and water, there is nothing left for a viable Palestinian state

A one state solution is the only option that is left.

Palestinians must get equal rights with Jews and become Israeli citizens.
Israel must become an "Israeli state", speak a state for all Israelis, be they Christians, Muslims, Jews or atheists.

The Israeli racist migration and citizenship laws must be abolished!
If Israel really shares the "western values" that Zionists are pushing in all Western countries, then Israel has just adopt citizenship and migration laws, that are similar to western countries

Israel cannot exist as a "Jewish state", which means apartheid and racism.

Zionists are pushing for "multiculturalism" in all western countries, they label Europeans who want to preserve their countries as "Nazis", and the western politicians, who are just puppets of Zionists, support this agenda, but they are always making an exception for Israel.

Why do western politicians not care about the rights of Germans or French to live in a German or French state, flooding these countries with non-European migrants, but on the other hand they have an understanding for the wish of Zionists to preserve a "Jewish state" on the stolen Palestinian land!?

If Germans do not have the right to preserve Germany as a German state, why should Israel be preserved as a "Jewish state"?

Nobody from western politicians, who are just Zionist puppets, is whining about the right of Germany, France or Sweden to exist as a "German state", "French state" or "Swedish state", but Zionists and their puppets constantly whine about the right of Jews to exist in a "Jewish state".

And if you do not support the idea about an exclusive "Jewish state" on the stolen Palestinian land, then you deny their "right to exist".

That are stupid arguments, and there are obvious double standards, because Zionists control the media and the political process in any Western country.

Diversity is good for the USA, for Germany and for any western county, that is what the talking heads in western media (who are on the payroll of Zionists) repeat 7x24.

So why is diversity not good for Israel?
Why do they whine and say that diversity is not good for Israel, if it is good for France, Germany or the USA?

Let the Zionists just take the pill that they force to take all western countries.


Let Israel move into the multicultural mode, too.


----------



## fanger

Once the Jewish immigrants were offered citizenship of Palestine


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with Ali Abunimah.
> Zionists have already stolen too much Palestinian land and water, there is nothing left for a viable Palestinian state
> 
> A one state solution is the only option that is left.
> 
> Palestinians must get equal rights with Jews and become Israeli citizens.
> Israel must become an "Israeli state", speak a state for all Israelis, be they Christians, Muslims, Jews or atheists.
> 
> The Israeli racist migration and citizenship laws must be abolished!
> If Israel really shares the "western values" that Zionists are pushing in all Western countries, then Israel has just adopt citizenship and migration laws, that are similar to western countries
> 
> Israel cannot exist as a "Jewish state", which means apartheid and racism.
> 
> Zionists are pushing for "multiculturalism" in all western countries, they label Europeans who want to preserve their countries as "Nazis", and the western politicians, who are just puppets of Zionists, support this agenda, but they are alwas making an exception for Israel
> 
> Diversity is good for the USA, for Germany and for any western county, that is what the talking heads in western media (who are on the payroll of Zionists) repeat 7x24.
> 
> So why is diversity not good for Israel?
> Why do they whine and say that diversity is not good for Israel, if it is good for France, Germany or the USA?
> 
> Let the Zionists just take the pill that they force to take all western countries.
> 
> 
> Let Israel move into the multicultural mode, too.
Click to expand...


Oh yes, Zionists control the world.  How is Israel forcing multiculturalism and diversity on Western countries?


----------



## fanger

Basement boy jews would like to think Zionists control the world, thats why they give money to corrupt politicians
Labour Friends of Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Conservative Friends of Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Friends of Israel Initiative - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
European Friends of Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Art__Allm

fanger said:


> Once the Jewish immigrants were offered citizenship of Palestine



Yes, but Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state on the one hand, and on the other hand a multicultural society in all western countries.

And they have already achieved the second goal, now they are pushing for the preserving Israel as an exclusive "Jewish state".




> The homeland: The homeland in the Land of Israel within the borders delineated in the Bible ("To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River." Genesis 15:18) This is the land of the living, where the entire nation shall live in safety.
> 
> The nation and its land: Israel conquered the land with the sword. There it became a great nation and only there it will be reborn. Hence Israel alone has a right to that land. This is an absolute right. It has never expired and never will.
> 
> Lehi group - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Oh yes, Zionists control the world.  How is Israel forcing multiculturalism and diversity on Western countries?



Not Israel, but Zionists or the "Israel Lobby".

Israel is only the tip of the iceberg, called Zionism.
Most Jews do not live in Israel, but they have to be loyal to Israel, and they have the right to "return" to Israel and get Israeli citizenship, like this guy:

Jonathan Pollard - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once the Jewish immigrants were offered citizenship of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state on the one hand, and on the other hand a multicultural society in all western countries.
> 
> And they have already achieved the second goal, now they are pushing for the preserving Israel as an exclusive "Jewish state".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The homeland: The homeland in the Land of Israel within the borders delineated in the Bible ("To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River." Genesis 15:18) This is the land of the living, where the entire nation shall live in safety.
> 
> The nation and its land: Israel conquered the land with the sword. There it became a great nation and only there it will be reborn. Hence Israel alone has a right to that land. This is an absolute right. It has never expired and never will.
> 
> Lehi group - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Why should Israel care if other Western countries are diverse or not and how have they achieved this?  Answer please.


----------



## fanger

Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Why should Israel care if other Western countries are diverse or not...



Because they think that this in their interests.

Here is the prove. The Israeli ambassador to Germany supports Muslims and demands "tolerance" to Islam in Germany, and presses for more migration to Germany. And he says that Jews and Muslims have common interests in Germany.

Podiumsdiskussion ber Antisemitismus und Islamophobie Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland K.d. .R. 

And Jews together with Muslims pressed for the rights of parents to mutilate the genitals of their children born in Germany.



> *Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders*
> 
> *Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany s Muslim and Jewish leaders World news The Guardian*






ForeverYoung436 said:


> ... and how have they achieved this?  Answer please.



They have achieved that through their pressure groups, their control of media, financial system and the corruption of western politicians. They pressed for the liberalisation of migration and citizenship laws in western countries, constantly playing the "Nazi-Holocaust-Card" and denigrating the politicians who opposed multiculturalism.



> ADL Hails Passage of New Immigration Law in Germany
> 
> New York, New York, May 28, 1999 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today lauded the passage of sweeping changes in Germany’s immigration law, saying the easing of the nation’s once rigorous naturalization requirements "will provide a climate for diversity and acceptance.
> 
> ..
> 
> "The easing of immigration requirements is especially significant in light of Germany’s history of the Holocaust and persecution of Jews and other minority groups. The new law will provide a climate for diversity and acceptance in a nation with an onerous legacy of xenophobia, where the concept of `us versus them’ will be replaced by a principle of citizenship for all."
> 
> Press Release - ADL Hails Passage of New Immigration Law in Germany



As we see, diversity is good for Germany, but it is bad for Israel.
ADL would never accept sweeping changes in Israeli's immigration or citizenship laws.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Israel care if other Western countries are diverse or not...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because they think that this in their interests.
> 
> Here is the prove. The Israeli ambassador to Germany supports Muslims and demands "tolerance" to Islam in Germany, and presses for more migration to Germany. And he says that Jews and Muslims have common interests in Germany.
> 
> Podiumsdiskussion ber Antisemitismus und Islamophobie Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland K.d. .R.
> 
> And Jews together with Muslims pressed for the rights of parents to mutilate the genitals of their children born in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders*
> 
> *Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany s Muslim and Jewish leaders World news The Guardian*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and how have they achieved this?  Answer please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have achieved that through their pressure groups, their control of media, financial system and the corruption of western politicians. They pressed for the liberalisation of migration and citizenship laws in western countries, constantly playing the "Nazi-Holocaust-Card" and denigrating the politicians who opposed multiculturalism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL Hails Passage of New Immigration Law in Germany
> 
> New York, New York, May 28, 1999 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today lauded the passage of sweeping changes in Germany’s immigration law, saying the easing of the nation’s once rigorous naturalization requirements "will provide a climate for diversity and acceptance.
> 
> ..
> 
> "The easing of immigration requirements is especially significant in light of Germany’s history of the Holocaust and persecution of Jews and other minority groups. The new law will provide a climate for diversity and acceptance in a nation with an onerous legacy of xenophobia, where the concept of `us versus them’ will be replaced by a principle of citizenship for all."
> 
> Press Release - ADL Hails Passage of New Immigration Law in Germany
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, diversity is good for Germany, but it is bad for Israel.
> ADL would never accept sweeping changes in Israeli's immigration or citizenship laws.
Click to expand...


The first article is in German, so I will have to take your word for it.

In the second article, Jews and Muslims were not forcing circumcision on Christians or secular/atheist people.  They merely wanted their own freedoms of religion.  

It seems that you don't want Muslims in your country.  That is understandable from my point of view, though I had thought you liked Muslims, because Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet.  I guess you changed your mind.  In any case, the ADL is a liberal organization and they just gave an opinion (just like you gave your opinion that Israel should be more diverse).  I don't think they lobbied to get Muslims to move to Germany.  And I don't think Israel really gives a damn if European countries are diverse or not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Moussa El-Haddad*
*Laila El-Haddad*


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> In the second article, Jews and Muslims were not forcing circumcision on Christians or secular/atheist people.  They merely wanted their own freedoms of religion.



Babies, born in Germany, are not Jews, Muslims or Christians, they are just potential German citizen, human beings that deserve the protection of the German law. 

When a child becomes a grown up person, then he/she can decide for himself or herself, if he/she wants his/her genitalia be mutilated, become a Jew, a Muslim or a Christian, or even cut off his penis or or her vagina.

But some people still have stone age moral norms, they believe that a child is the property of the parents, and that parents can mutilate the gentiles of their children without asking them, if they want it.

I think that people with such stone age moral norms are incompatible with a modern European society, but the power of the Zionists who have now allies, like Muslims in Europe, can now force these stone age moral norms upon modern European societies, and in Germany they can always play the "Nazi-Holocaust-Card", and silence any opposition.

You asked why Zionists need non-European migrants with stone age morals in western countries, and I have answered this question with the mentioned example.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> It seems that you don't want Muslims in your country.



But Zionists want Muslims and other non-European migrants in western countries, and it seems that you now agree that they want it



ForeverYoung436 said:


> That is understandable from my point of view, though I had thought you liked Muslims, because Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet.




I like Muslims in Muslim countries, and I do not care what they do with their children in Muslim countries. But Zionists need Muslims in western countries, because they need allies. That is the crucial point, and it seems that you now agree with my arguments.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> In any case, the ADL is a liberal organization and they just gave an opinion (just like you gave your opinion that Israel should be more diverse).



I guess that this organisation only has liberal opinions about the migration of non-Europeans to the western countries. But this organisation will never advocate the migration of non-Jews to Israel, and they will never support the right of expelled native Semites to return to their Palestinian homeland.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> I don't think they lobbied to get Muslims to move to Germany.



Of course they did lobby any migration of any non-Europeans to any western country, and also the migration of Muslims to Germany.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> And I don't think Israel really gives a damn if European countries are diverse or not.



Who cares what you think?
The facts are there, they lobbied for diversity in western countries, they lobbied for the liberalisation of migration and naturalisation politics in Western countries, but they never wished any diversity for Israel, and they never cared about the international law and the human rights of expelled Palestinians whose land was stolen.

The hypocrisy of all these Zionist advocates of human rights is right in your face, only fools and shills can still deny that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ramzy Baroud*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the second article, Jews and Muslims were not forcing circumcision on Christians or secular/atheist people.  They merely wanted their own freedoms of religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babies, born in Germany, are not Jews, Muslims or Christians, they are just potential German citizen, human beings that deserve the protection of the German law.
> 
> When a child becomes a grown up person, then he/she can decide for himself or herself, if he/she wants his/her genitalia be mutilated, become a Jew, a Muslim or a Christian, or even cut off his penis or or her vagina.
> 
> But some people still have stone age moral norms, they believe that a child is the property of the parents, and that parents can mutilate the gentiles of their children without asking them, if they want it.
> 
> I think that people with such stone age moral norms are incompatible with a modern European society, but the power of the Zionists who have now allies, like Muslims in Europe, can now force these stone age moral norms upon modern European societies, and in Germany they can always play the "Nazi-Holocaust-Card", and silence any opposition.
> 
> You asked why Zionists need non-European migrants with stone age morals in western countries, and I have answered this question with the mentioned example.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that you don't want Muslims in your country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But Zionists want Muslims and other non-European migrants in western countries, and it seems that you now agree that they want it
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is understandable from my point of view, though I had thought you liked Muslims, because Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I like Muslims in Muslim countries, and I do not care what they do with their children in Muslim countries. But Zionists need Muslims in western countries, because they need allies. That is the crucial point, and it seems that you now agree with my arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, the ADL is a liberal organization and they just gave an opinion (just like you gave your opinion that Israel should be more diverse).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess that this organisation only has liberal opinions about the migration of non-Europeans to the western countries. But this organisation will never advocate the migration of non-Jews to Israel, and they will never support the right of expelled native Semites to return to their Palestinian homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they lobbied to get Muslims to move to Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they did lobby any migration of any non-Europeans to any western country, and also the migration of Muslims to Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't think Israel really gives a damn if European countries are diverse or not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who cares what you think?
> The facts are there, they lobbied for diversity in western countries, they lobbied for the liberalisation of migration and naturalisation politics in Western countries, but they never wished any diversity for Israel, and they never cared about the international law and the human rights of expelled Palestinians whose land was stolen.
> 
> The hypocrisy of all these Zionist advocates of human rights is right in your face, only fools and shills can still deny that.
Click to expand...


The sad thing is that you believe what you have written in this post.  Extreme paranoia and delusions.  Anti-Semitism is a mental illness.


----------



## fanger

Israeli and American scientists have discovered a gene among Ashkenazi Jews that increases their chances of developing the mental disorder schizophrenia, as well schizoaffective disorder and manic depression. According to a study recently published in Nature Communications, the gene in question raises Ashkenazi Jews’ chances of experiencing the disorders by roughly 40%, and by 15% in the general population.
Scientists discover gene that predisposes Ashkenazi Jews to schizophrenia - National - news Haaretz


----------



## aris2chat

fanger said:


> Israeli and American scientists have discovered a gene among Ashkenazi Jews that increases their chances of developing the mental disorder schizophrenia, as well schizoaffective disorder and manic depression. According to a study recently published in Nature Communications, the gene in question raises Ashkenazi Jews’ chances of experiencing the disorders by roughly 40%, and by 15% in the general population.
> Scientists discover gene that predisposes http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.560128



Jews are usually tested to see if either are carriers when they want to have children or soon after the women gets pregnant. 


Muslim Inbreeding Impacts on intelligence sanity health and society


Ectrodactyly with aplasia of long bones OMIM 119100 in a large inbred Arab family with an apparent autosomal dominant inheritance and reduced pe... - PubMed - NCBI

Danish Psychologist Serious consequences of Muslim inbreeding The Muslim Issue

Researchers in Israel uncover disease hitting Arab kids - Health Science - Jerusalem Post

Disabled Gaza baby lives in Israel hospital - Israel News Ynetnews


----------



## P F Tinmore

fanger said:


> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation


Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.

It is like they are trying to sell something.


----------



## theliq

Art__Allm said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully agree with Ali Abunimah.
> Zionists have already stolen too much Palestinian land and water, there is nothing left for a viable Palestinian state
> 
> A one state solution is the only option that is left.
> 
> Palestinians must get equal rights with Jews and become Israeli citizens.
> Israel must become an "Israeli state", speak a state for all Israelis, be they Christians, Muslims, Jews or atheists.
> 
> The Israeli racist migration and citizenship laws must be abolished!
> If Israel really shares the "western values" that Zionists are pushing in all Western countries, then Israel has just adopt citizenship and migration laws, that are similar to western countries
> 
> Israel cannot exist as a "Jewish state", which means apartheid and racism.
> 
> Zionists are pushing for "multiculturalism" in all western countries, they label Europeans who want to preserve their countries as "Nazis", and the western politicians, who are just puppets of Zionists, support this agenda, but they are always making an exception for Israel.
> 
> Why do western politicians not care about the rights of Germans or French to live in a German or French state, flooding these countries with non-European migrants, but on the other hand they have an understanding for the wish of Zionists to preserve a "Jewish state" on the stolen Palestinian land!?
> 
> If Germans do not have the right to preserve Germany as a German state, why should Israel be preserved as a "Jewish state"?
> 
> Nobody from western politicians, who are just Zionist puppets, is whining about the right of Germany, France or Sweden to exist as a "German state", "French state" or "Swedish state", but Zionists and their puppets constantly whine about the right of Jews to exist in a "Jewish state".
> 
> And if you do not support the idea about an exclusive "Jewish state" on the stolen Palestinian land, then you deny their "right to exist".
> 
> That are stupid arguments, and there are obvious double standards, because Zionists control the media and the political process in any Western country.
> 
> Diversity is good for the USA, for Germany and for any western county, that is what the talking heads in western media (who are on the payroll of Zionists) repeat 7x24.
> 
> So why is diversity not good for Israel?
> Why do they whine and say that diversity is not good for Israel, if it is good for France, Germany or the USA?
> 
> Let the Zionists just take the pill that they force to take all western countries.
> 
> 
> Let Israel move into the multicultural mode, too.
Click to expand...

This person in the vid,is mistaken saying European countries are not multicultural,they are,as for her saying a  few Jews/Zionists in Sweden being at the center of change,well that is amazing .........as for the Greek word for her organization.....well that is ATYPICAL of many Zionists/Jews who try to make organizations and businesses appear Gentile and not Jewish.....which is a shame because one should be proud of what and who they are.just saying steve.but it is a bad habit that Zionist/Jews seem to adhere to these days.....maybe one of you in the Zionist lobby could explain to me WHY.


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The sad thing is that you believe what you have written in this post.  Extreme paranoia and delusions.  Anti-Semitism is a mental illness.



You know that I am right, that is why you do not even try to attack my arguments.
You are just calling names and attacking the messenger, and that is typical hasbarra tactic, that cannot be taken seriously any more.



The word "Anti-Semitism" is a misnomer, because most Zionists are not Semites, and because Zionists hate the native Semites of Palestine, speak Zionists are the biggest Semite-Haters.

Zionists just label every decent person, that exposes their racism, as "Anti-Semites", because they hope that this way they can hide their own hate against Semites.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad thing is that you believe what you have written in this post.  Extreme paranoia and delusions.  Anti-Semitism is a mental illness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know that I am right, that is why you do not even try to attack my arguments.
> You are just calling names and attacking the messenger, and that is typical hasbarra tactic, that cannot be taken seriously any more.
> 
> 
> 
> The word "Anti-Semitism" is a misnomer, because most Zionists are not Semites, and because Zionists hate the native Semites of Palestine, speak Zionists are the biggest Semite-Haters.
> 
> Zionists just label every decent person, that exposes their racism, as "Anti-Semites", because they hope that this way they can hide their own hate against Semites.
Click to expand...

The anti-Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.


----------



## Art__Allm

P F Tinmore said:


> The anti-Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.



Yes, so many great and decent people were labelled by the Zionist supremacists as "Anti-Semites", that it is like getting the badge of honour, when these Semite-Haters label you with that old and tired label, that does not have any meaning any more.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad thing is that you believe what you have written in this post.  Extreme paranoia and delusions.  Anti-Semitism is a mental illness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know that I am right, that is why you do not even try to attack my arguments.
> You are just calling names and attacking the messenger, and that is typical hasbarra tactic, that cannot be taken seriously any more.
> 
> 
> 
> The word "Anti-Semitism" is a misnomer, because most Zionists are not Semites, and because Zionists hate the native Semites of Palestine, speak Zionists are the biggest Semite-Haters.
> 
> Zionists just label every decent person, that exposes their racism, as "Anti-Semites", because they hope that this way they can hide their own hate against Semites.
Click to expand...


Well, what do you expect when you present ridiculous statements that Zionists/Jews/Whatever have a plan to turn Europe multicultural?  A few weeks ago, you called Muslims your best friends because they accept Jesus as a prophet whereas Jews do not.  You also used some Talmudic quotes (who knows if they are real or not) to "show" that Jews hate Gentiles.  Is that not anti-Semitic?  But now you do not want an influx of Muslims into Germany, and Jews and/or Zionists are somehow the cause of that influx.  I'm just calling a spade a spade.  I never called the poster named Humanity an anti-Semite because he never made statements like yours.


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Well, what do you expect when you present ridiculous statements that Zionists/Jews/Whatever have a plan to turn Europe multicultural?



I have proven this with facts, and you were unable to disprove my arguments.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> A few weeks ago, you called Muslims your best friends because they accept Jesus as a prophet whereas Jews do not.



My point was that there are more common points between Islam and Christianity, and you were unable to prove me wrong.
And yes, Muslims that live in Muslims countries, are not my enemies. Why should they be my enemies, if they do not do me any harm?



ForeverYoung436 said:


> You also used some Talmudic quotes (who knows if they are real or not) to "show" that Jews hate Gentiles.



I could prove with quotes that Judaism is more hostile to Christianity, than Islam.
Can you prove me wrong?



ForeverYoung436 said:


> Is that not anti-Semitic?



What has this to do with Semites?
Islam is at least as Semitic, as Judaism, and your silly name calling is not an argument.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> But now you do not want an influx of Muslims into Germany...



Well, I do not want a great influx of any non-Europeans to Europe, because this big influx destroys the European culture. Is that not obvious?




ForeverYoung436 said:


> ...and Jews and/or Zionists are somehow the cause of that influx.



Well, I have proven with quotes and links, that Jews had a disproportional influence on this, they had pressure groups that lobbied for the liberalisation of migration and citizenship laws in Germany and other Western countries.

You were unable to prove me wrong.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> I'm just calling a spade a spade.



Calling names, and using meaningless terms, like "Anti-Semites", does not prove or disprove anything. 

That is just childish behaviour. 

Everybody knows that Zionists hate the native Semites of Palestine, and if Zionists use the therm "Anti-Semites", then they are just using a misnomer, a linguistic fraud, a meaningless term.

You have to prove that an argument is wrong, not call the person, that uses this argument "bad guy".

Who cares about your opinion?



ForeverYoung436 said:


> I never called the poster named Humanity an anti-Semite because he never made statements like yours.



So what?
Does that prove that my arguments are wrong?
You have to prove that my arguments are wrong, that is all.

I do not call my opponents "bad guys", because name calling is not an argument.

I attack the arguments of my opponents, because even people whom I perceive as "bad guys" can have valid arguments.

Can you get my drift?


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you expect when you present ridiculous statements that Zionists/Jews/Whatever have a plan to turn Europe multicultural?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have proven this with facts, and you were unable to disprove my arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago, you called Muslims your best friends because they accept Jesus as a prophet whereas Jews do not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point was that there are more common points between Islam and Christianity, and you were unable to prove me wrong.
> And yes, Muslims that live in Muslims countries, are not my enemies. Why should they be my enemies, if they do not do me any harm?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You also used some Talmudic quotes (who knows if they are real or not) to "show" that Jews hate Gentiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I could prove with quotes that Judaism is more hostile to Christianity, than Islam.
> Can you prove me wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that not anti-Semitic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has this to do with Semites?
> Islam is at least as Semitic, as Judaism, and your silly name calling is not an argument.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But now you do not want an influx of Muslims into Germany...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I do not want a great influx of any non-Europeans to Europe, because this big influx destroys the European culture. Is that not obvious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and Jews and/or Zionists are somehow the cause of that influx.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I have proven with quotes and links, that Jews had a disproportional influence on this, they had pressure groups that lobbied for the liberalisation of migration and citizenship laws in Germany and other Western countries.
> 
> You were unable to prove me wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just calling a spade a spade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calling names, and using meaningless terms, like "Anti-Semites", does not prove or disprove anything.
> 
> That is just childish behaviour.
> 
> Everybody knows that Zionists hate the native Semites of Palestine, and if Zionists use the therm "Anti-Semites", then they are just using a misnomer, a linguistic fraud, a meaningless term.
> 
> You have to prove that an argument is wrong, not call the person, that uses this argument "bad guy".
> 
> Who cares about your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never called the poster named Humanity an anti-Semite because he never made statements like yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what?
> Does that prove that my arguments are wrong?
> You have to prove that my arguments are wrong, that is all.
> 
> I do not call my opponents "bad guys", because name calling is not an argument.
> 
> I attack the arguments of my opponents, because even people whom I perceive as "bad guys" can have valid arguments.
> 
> Can you get my drift?
Click to expand...

Seems to me this is the kind of people you're defending.


*Jerusalem sheikh lectures kids on glories of martyrdom*


*Muslim sheikh was filmed in the Old City of Jerusalem, near the Temple Mount, teaching children about martyrdom and virgins in paradise on Monday. A passerby attempted to stop him, telling him “shame on you.”


In a four-minute video released by the watchdog Middle East Media Research Institute, Sheikh Khaled al-Maghrabi is seen instructing a group of children, the oldest of whom are barely adolescents, that “the martyr is absolved with the first drop of his blood.”

The children were taking part in the so-called Al-Aqsa Mosque Summer Camp, according to MEMRI.
Jerusalem sheikh lectures kids on glories of martyrdom The Times of Israel

*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
Click to expand...

Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies. 

More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society. 

Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
Click to expand...

How does that relate to my post?

Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
Click to expand...

It's all relative, Tinhore.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
Click to expand...

In the 1948 war:
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Egypt lose?

It is said that they lost. What did they lose?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
Click to expand...

Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.
Click to expand...

What land?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
> 
> 
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What land?
Click to expand...

I thought you said the ground lived on by Israelis belongs to Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you said the ground lived on by Israelis belongs to Palestine.
Click to expand...

Yeah, so? What does that have to do with my post?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
> 
> 
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you said the ground lived on by Israelis belongs to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, so? What does that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Oh, you wanna talk about the bears and the birds?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all relative, Tinhore.
> 
> 
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you said the ground lived on by Israelis belongs to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, so? What does that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Since we're on the subject of the OP, is it OK for me to say that these are some of the Palestinians we're discussing?

*Horrific Video Shows Palestinians Lynching Rare Striped Hyena*

A sickening video has emerged online showing a gang of Palestinian Arabs lynching a rare striped hyena.

The video description says it was taken on July 25 near Hevron in Judea, where many of Israel's few remaining striped hyenas live.

At the start of the video at least one Palestinian-driven car is seen chasing the hyena, as it walks alongside a road. Other cars soon join in, several of which attempt to run over the animal or block its path.

The men finally succeed in cornering the hyena - possibly striking it with a car as well - at which point they mercilessly pelt the helpless animal with boulders, rocks and other projectiles.


*Warning: Disturbing video. Animal cruelty.*


*Watch Palestinians Lynch Endangered Striped Hyena - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we care if Israel demands we agree it has a right to exist, most all countries exist or dont exist, maybe Israel has a guilty conscience and are worried that we know what they know, that the current state of israel exists within the borders of Palestine, which they would like to vanish from the pages of time, Or wipe off the map depending on your translation
> 
> 
> 
> Israel uses unique language. It constantly claims its right to exist. What other country even mentions it. It constantly claims its right to defend itself. What other country makes that claim. It calls itself the state of Israel or a sovereign state. What other country uses those terms.
> 
> It is like they are trying to sell something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has claimed its right to exist emphatically, three times with the humiliating defeat of Arab/Moslem armies.
> 
> More than 65 years since declaring its existence, Israel has become a hub of science and technological innovation. Your co-Islamists on the other hand have bilked the UN for a dedicated welfare agency, received billions of infidel welfare dollars yet still can't manage to cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> Perpetual losers, whiners and complainers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Wars with surrounding states are meaningless to the I/P conflict.
Click to expand...

Obviously not. Arab-Moslem wars of aggression are intended to purge the Islamist Middle East of competing religions. In the formulation of his politico-religious ideology, muhammud (swish) invented the most fascist ideology ever to corrupt mans formidable imagination. The Hamas Charter is simply an encapsulation of the dog and pony show unleashed by Mo' (swish) on humanity.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you expect when you present ridiculous statements that Zionists/Jews/Whatever have a plan to turn Europe multicultural?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have proven this with facts, and you were unable to disprove my arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago, you called Muslims your best friends because they accept Jesus as a prophet whereas Jews do not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point was that there are more common points between Islam and Christianity, and you were unable to prove me wrong.
> And yes, Muslims that live in Muslims countries, are not my enemies. Why should they be my enemies, if they do not do me any harm?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You also used some Talmudic quotes (who knows if they are real or not) to "show" that Jews hate Gentiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I could prove with quotes that Judaism is more hostile to Christianity, than Islam.
> Can you prove me wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that not anti-Semitic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has this to do with Semites?
> Islam is at least as Semitic, as Judaism, and your silly name calling is not an argument.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But now you do not want an influx of Muslims into Germany...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I do not want a great influx of any non-Europeans to Europe, because this big influx destroys the European culture. Is that not obvious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and Jews and/or Zionists are somehow the cause of that influx.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I have proven with quotes and links, that Jews had a disproportional influence on this, they had pressure groups that lobbied for the liberalisation of migration and citizenship laws in Germany and other Western countries.
> 
> You were unable to prove me wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just calling a spade a spade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calling names, and using meaningless terms, like "Anti-Semites", does not prove or disprove anything.
> 
> That is just childish behaviour.
> 
> Everybody knows that Zionists hate the native Semites of Palestine, and if Zionists use the therm "Anti-Semites", then they are just using a misnomer, a linguistic fraud, a meaningless term.
> 
> You have to prove that an argument is wrong, not call the person, that uses this argument "bad guy".
> 
> Who cares about your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never called the poster named Humanity an anti-Semite because he never made statements like yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what?
> Does that prove that my arguments are wrong?
> You have to prove that my arguments are wrong, that is all.
> 
> I do not call my opponents "bad guys", because name calling is not an argument.
> 
> I attack the arguments of my opponents, because even people whom I perceive as "bad guys" can have valid arguments.
> 
> Can you get my drift?
Click to expand...


You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.  Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.  
As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.  That little detail seems to have escaped your notice.  Or maybe the news media in Germany doesn't report those events.

As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.




ADL is a very influential pressure group.

And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.


I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.


I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.


If you missed that, here is this clip:





Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.






The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.

But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.

Do you need more proves?




ForeverYoung436 said:


> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.




Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.

Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.

The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books



ForeverYoung436 said:


> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.




That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?



ForeverYoung436 said:


> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?




The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?

If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
You hate a huge number of people.

I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.

So who is a bigger hater?



BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.

Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.

Yes or no?


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the 1948 war:
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> It is said that they lost. What did they lose?
> 
> 
> 
> Face for one thing. A little blood, a little land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you said the ground lived on by Israelis belongs to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, so? What does that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since we're on the subject of the OP, is it OK for me to say that these are some of the Palestinians we're discussing?
> 
> *Horrific Video Shows Palestinians Lynching Rare Striped Hyena*
> 
> A sickening video has emerged online showing a gang of Palestinian Arabs lynching a rare striped hyena.
> 
> The video description says it was taken on July 25 near Hevron in Judea, where many of Israel's few remaining striped hyenas live.
> 
> At the start of the video at least one Palestinian-driven car is seen chasing the hyena, as it walks alongside a road. Other cars soon join in, several of which attempt to run over the animal or block its path.
> 
> The men finally succeed in cornering the hyena - possibly striking it with a car as well - at which point they mercilessly pelt the helpless animal with boulders, rocks and other projectiles.
> 
> 
> *Warning: Disturbing video. Animal cruelty.*
> 
> 
> *Watch Palestinians Lynch Endangered Striped Hyena - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva*
Click to expand...


Maybe they should be skinned for what they did?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
Click to expand...


"Zionists" are not going to take the blame for ISIS, al-Shabab, al-Nusra, Boko Haram, al-Queida, etc.  THOSE ARE MUSLIMS.


----------



## aris2chat

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Zionists" are not going to take the blame for ISIS, al-Shabab, al-Nusra, Boko Haram, al-Queida, etc.  THOSE ARE MUSLIMS.
Click to expand...


That type of violence in the name of a religion of peace is an internal problem not one that even eliminating Israel would solve.  Muslims have been fighting muslims since the dawn of the faith.  Israel nor the jews caused that.  Blaming Israel is just scapegoating.  Muslims need to untangle that mess on their own.  They need to actually 'practice' peace with everyone else in the world regardless of religion, nationality or politics.


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
Click to expand...


I don't know ForeverYoung's opinion of these three men, but you mentioning them shows your mindset because you no doubt salivate over what they say.  One thing I do know is that Shahak, a chemistry teacher who supposedly becomes a scholar on religion but who as a Communist hates all religions, is a favorite of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and has been brought up numerous times over the years by those who hate the Jews and use those sites.  If you are of the appropriate years, perhaps you can write a book entitled"How I Spent my Teens in the Nazi Youth" and have it published by the same French NeoNazi publishing house, La Vielle Taupe, that publishes Shahak's book.


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know ForeverYoung's opinion of these three men, but you mentioning them shows your mindset because you no doubt salivate over what they say.  One thing I do know is that Shahak, a chemistry teacher who supposedly becomes a scholar on religion but who as a Communist hates all religions, is a favorite of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and has been brought up numerous times over the years by those who hate the Jews and use those sites.  If you are of the appropriate years, perhaps you can write a book entitled"How I Spent my Teens in the Nazi Youth" and have it published by the same French NeoNazi publishing house, La Vielle Taupe, that publishes Shahak's book.
Click to expand...


Shahak was not a communist, just a a decent well-educated man that spoke the truth.  He survived the concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen, having been liberated by allied troops.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know ForeverYoung's opinion of these three men, but you mentioning them shows your mindset because you no doubt salivate over what they say.  One thing I do know is that Shahak, a chemistry teacher who supposedly becomes a scholar on religion but who as a Communist hates all religions, is a favorite of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and has been brought up numerous times over the years by those who hate the Jews and use those sites.  If you are of the appropriate years, perhaps you can write a book entitled"How I Spent my Teens in the Nazi Youth" and have it published by the same French NeoNazi publishing house, La Vielle Taupe, that publishes Shahak's book.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shahak was not a communist, just a a decent well-educated man that spoke the truth.  He survived the concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen, having been liberated by allied troops.
Click to expand...



Shahak openly collaborated with the Israeli Communist Party and its Frankenstein product, Matzpen. The Communist Party was, of course, a tool of the genocidal Soviet dictatorship, while Matzpen was even more bloodthirsty:


If the Israeli Jewish masses are not split from Zionism… then there will be another Holocaust. Eventually, the Arab revolution is going to win; if the masses of the Israeli Jews are not incorporated in it, they will necessarily be consumed by it.


Shahak not only raised no objection to this Hitlerian outburst; he joined its author in usurping control of the once-respectable Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights.


IsraCampus.Org.il


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know ForeverYoung's opinion of these three men, but you mentioning them shows your mindset because you no doubt salivate over what they say.  One thing I do know is that Shahak, a chemistry teacher who supposedly becomes a scholar on religion but who as a Communist hates all religions, is a favorite of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and has been brought up numerous times over the years by those who hate the Jews and use those sites.  If you are of the appropriate years, perhaps you can write a book entitled"How I Spent my Teens in the Nazi Youth" and have it published by the same French NeoNazi publishing house, La Vielle Taupe, that publishes Shahak's book.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shahak was not a communist, just a a decent well-educated man that spoke the truth.  He survived the concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen, having been liberated by allied troops.
Click to expand...


If the Jew haters didn't bring up Shahak from the hate sites, more than likely most of us would never have heard of the man.  I am sure that Monte can get a copy of his book published by some NeoNazi group here in America.  Try Noontide Press, Monte, as it is one of the NeoNazi publishers here in America.  I believe you can order your copy of Mein Kampf there also.


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know ForeverYoung's opinion of these three men, but you mentioning them shows your mindset because you no doubt salivate over what they say.  One thing I do know is that Shahak, a chemistry teacher who supposedly becomes a scholar on religion but who as a Communist hates all religions, is a favorite of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and has been brought up numerous times over the years by those who hate the Jews and use those sites.  If you are of the appropriate years, perhaps you can write a book entitled"How I Spent my Teens in the Nazi Youth" and have it published by the same French NeoNazi publishing house, La Vielle Taupe, that publishes Shahak's book.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shahak was not a communist, just a a decent well-educated man that spoke the truth.  He survived the concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen, having been liberated by allied troops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Jew haters didn't bring up Shahak from the hate sites, more than likely most of us would never have heard of the man.  I am sure that Monte can get a copy of his book published by some NeoNazi group here in America.  Try Noontide Press, Monte, as it is one of the NeoNazi publishers here in America.  I believe you can order your copy of Mein Kampf there also.
Click to expand...


You are full of shit Hossfly.  You are much closer to a Nazi than Shahak was, in fact, you are a Nazi.  The only difference is that your master race is the Jew.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You proved nothing.  All you did was post a statement by the ADL congratulating Germany on some immigration law.  Big deal--so they gave an opinion on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL is a very influential pressure group.
> 
> And ADL would never advocate the liberalization of Israeli citizenship and migration laws, we have an obvious double standard.
> 
> 
> I have also quoted a German source, where the Israeli ambassador met with Muslims in Germany and demanded more tolerance to Muslims and for more Mosques in Germany. I could quote a lot of Jewish activists who demanded that Germany becomes more multicultural.
> 
> 
> I also pasted the clip where a Jewish activist demands that Europe becomes more multicultural, and she even admits that Jews have a leading role in this process.
> 
> 
> If you missed that, here is this clip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another clip of another Jewish activist, who is a German politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ex-Communist and supporter of Zionism Gregor Gisy openly shows his contempt for the Germans, he calls them "Nazis". He is glad, that the fertility of "Nazis" is decreasing, and he calls for further liberalization of German migration laws, to let more non-Germans to get German citizenship.
> 
> But Gisy would never advocate any liberalization of Israeli migration and citizenship laws, he applies double standards to Germany and to the land he is really loyal to.
> 
> Do you need more proves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Jews have an obsession with Germany because of the Holocaust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Jews have an obsession with all Western countries, and they play the “Holocaust Card” not only in Germany.
> 
> Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about the “Holocaust Industry”.
> 
> The Holocaust Industry Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering - Norman G. Finkelstein - Google Books
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Muslims and Jews and their relations with Christians TODAY--Muslims have been massacring Christians and purging them from the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is due to the false flag operation of Zionists and the Zionist subversion of Muslim groups.
> The hostility between Muslims and Christians is good for Israel, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for you're not being anti-Semitic, I'll say you're anti-Jewish instead.  Is that better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The right term is Anti-Zionism, call me Anti-Zionist, I do not mind.
> And what about you? Are you not anti-Muslim?
> 
> If you hate Muslims,  then your hate is way bigger, than my hate.
> You hate a huge number of people.
> 
> I only hate Zionists,  who are a small minority.
> 
> So who is a bigger hater?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.
> 
> Israel Shahak, Shlomo Sand and Gilad Atzmon are Jews, but I do not hate them.
> I guess that you hate the mentioned Jews.
> 
> Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know ForeverYoung's opinion of these three men, but you mentioning them shows your mindset because you no doubt salivate over what they say.  One thing I do know is that Shahak, a chemistry teacher who supposedly becomes a scholar on religion but who as a Communist hates all religions, is a favorite of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and has been brought up numerous times over the years by those who hate the Jews and use those sites.  If you are of the appropriate years, perhaps you can write a book entitled"How I Spent my Teens in the Nazi Youth" and have it published by the same French NeoNazi publishing house, La Vielle Taupe, that publishes Shahak's book.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shahak was not a communist, just a a decent well-educated man that spoke the truth.  He survived the concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen, having been liberated by allied troops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Jew haters didn't bring up Shahak from the hate sites, more than likely most of us would never have heard of the man.  I am sure that Monte can get a copy of his book published by some NeoNazi group here in America.  Try Noontide Press, Monte, as it is one of the NeoNazi publishers here in America.  I believe you can order your copy of Mein Kampf there also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are full of shit Hossfly.  You are much closer to a Nazi than Shahak was, in fact, you are a Nazi.  The only difference is that your master race is the Jew.
Click to expand...



You are the one who is full of it.  No one said that Shahak was a Nazi, but the NeoNazis love him so because of what he says aboutt the Jewish religion.  That is why you will see him mentioned on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites.  Do you really think that people are that dumb that they think that you and the rest like you had known about Shahak all along.  If there was no Internet, you would never have known about Shahak, and neither would the rest of us heard about him. .

IsraCampus.Org.il


----------



## Art__Allm

Hossfly said:


> If the Jew haters didn't bring up Shahak from the hate sites, more than likely most of us would never have heard of the man.  I am sure that Monte can get a copy of his book published by some NeoNazi group here in America.  Try Noontide Press, Monte, as it is one of the NeoNazi publishers here in America.  I believe you can order your copy of Mein Kampf there also.



Are you a Jew?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Jew haters didn't bring up Shahak from the hate sites, more than likely most of us would never have heard of the man.  I am sure that Monte can get a copy of his book published by some NeoNazi group here in America.  Try Noontide Press, Monte, as it is one of the NeoNazi publishers here in America.  I believe you can order your copy of Mein Kampf there also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a Jew?
Click to expand...


Hossfly is not Jewish.


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hossfly is not Jewish.



But Israel Shak was a Jew.

So a non-Jew hates a Jew, I think that this is what people call "Jew-Hate".

Hossifly hates a Jew, he can be caled a Jew-Hater.


----------



## Art__Allm

Hossfly said:


> If there was no Internet, you would never have known about Shahak, and neither would the rest of us heard about him. .
> 
> IsraCampus.Org.il



Is that the reason why Zionists are so eager about imposing even more censorship, and why they hate free speech and Internet so much?

If Zionists had the total power, they would probably apply bolshevik tactics to the entire world.


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly is not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Israel Shak was a Jew.
> 
> So a non-Jew hates a Jew, I think that this is what people call "Jew-Hate".
> 
> Hossifly hates a Jew, he can be caled a Jew-Hater.
Click to expand...

You' are so obvious what you are, Art.  Did I say I hate Shahak?  However, it is evident to anyone with brains and who isn't anti-Semitic that  the only way the Jew haters found out about Shahak and the other Jews mentioned was by reading the NeoNazi/Islamofascist5 hate sites.  I don't think any school curriculum around the world is teaching about Shahak and the others, but the Jew haters hit the jackpot when the hate sites started to appear on the  Internet, and there are so many of them that they can choose to read from, such as Stormfront and RadioIslam.


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there was no Internet, you would never have known about Shahak, and neither would the rest of us heard about him. .
> 
> IsraCampus.Org.il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the reason why Zionists are so eager about imposing even more censorship, and why they hate free speech and Internet so much?
> 
> If Zionists had the total power, they would probably apply bolshevik tactics to the entire world.
Click to expand...


You sound like you were in the Hitler Youth.  Isn't it strange that you see Free Speech in Israel whereas you don't in the Muslim world?  Do you think a newspaper like Haaretz would last long in the Muslim world?
I think Art feels his hands are tied because he can't say what he wants about the Jews now in Germany without getting into trouble.  This frustrates him.  In Hitler's time, he would have been free to say anything he likes to about them.


----------



## theliq

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly is not Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Israel Shak was a Jew.
> 
> So a non-Jew hates a Jew, I think that this is what people call "Jew-Hate".
> 
> Hossifly hates a Jew, he can be caled a Jew-Hater.
Click to expand...

No,No Hoss is his own man(I admit I don't always agree with him re-Israel etc,.) but as a friend I will defend him to give his opinion...as I do everyone,no matter what......Hoss is a decent and honest Man,despite his at times Pro-Zionist(Terrorist) rantings.......something I wish he would Stop.....Jews OK but Terrorist Zionism NO WAY...SAY NO TO ZIONISM...REAL JEWS DO.steve AND SO DO I


----------



## theliq

Hossfly said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there was no Internet, you would never have known about Shahak, and neither would the rest of us heard about him. .
> 
> IsraCampus.Org.il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the reason why Zionists are so eager about imposing even more censorship, and why they hate free speech and Internet so much?
> 
> If Zionists had the total power, they would probably apply bolshevik tactics to the entire world.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like you were in the Hitler Youth.  Isn't it strange that you see Free Speech in Israel whereas you don't in the Muslim world?  Do you think a newspaper like Haaretz would last long in the Muslim world?
> I think Art feels his hands are tied because he can't say what he wants about the Jews now in Germany without getting into trouble.  This frustrates him.  In Hitler's time, he would have been free to say anything he likes to about them.
Click to expand...

I don't agree on your last sentence Hossie.........It would have been straight to the Gas Chambers..the Nazis were sensitive PRICKS..steve


----------



## Art__Allm

Hossfly said:


> You' are so obvious what you are, Art.  Did I say I hate Shahak?  However, it is evident to anyone with brains and who isn't anti-Semitic that  the only way the Jew haters found out about Shahak and the other Jews mentioned was by reading the NeoNazi/Islamofascist5 hate sites.



You are using in your language a lot of meaningless words, invented by Zionist supremacists, like "Islamofascits", and you cannot conceal your hate for truth.

Is Amazon.com not a kosher site?

Jewish History Jewish Religion The Weight of Three Thousand Years Pluto Middle Eastern Studies Israel Shahak Gore Vidal Edward Said 9780745308197 Amazon.com Books


Most people (more than 90%) think that Israel Shahak is a good guy, and he had written great books.

Here is the comment that most readers regarded as healpful:



> *Most Helpful Customer Reviews*
> 107 of 125 people found the following review helpful
> Such views are usually censored...
> By A Customer on July 26, 2000
> Format: Paperback
> I highly recommend reading the book "Jewish history, Jewish Religion". Its author, Israel Shahak, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, engages in deep introspection about Jewish religion and practices.
> He seems deeply toubled by the rigidity, and intolerance of Jewish religion. Shahak quotes from the Talmud and points out a pervasive Jewish racism and haughtiness toward non-Jews.
> He believes that anti-semitism may have its roots in this historic Jewish mindset. Shahak also points out a wide-spread practice of deception and double-speak.
> In writing this book, he hopes that other Jews will engage in similar introspection to estabish a more harmonious relationship with Goyims.
> Recommended books: 'The Holocaust Industry' (by Finkelstein) 'An Eye for an Eye' (John Sack)



So you belong to a minority that hates Shahak and hates the freedom of speech.



Hossfly said:


> I don't think any school curriculum around the world is teaching about Shahak and the others...



Only retarded people do not learn more than the propaganda, offered in their school curriculum.

BTW, I am not an American, and our school curriculum is not as retarded, as the American school curriculum.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You' are so obvious what you are, Art.  Did I say I hate Shahak?  However, it is evident to anyone with brains and who isn't anti-Semitic that  the only way the Jew haters found out about Shahak and the other Jews mentioned was by reading the NeoNazi/Islamofascist5 hate sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are using in your language a lot of meaningless words, invented by Zionist supremacists, like "Islamofascits", and you cannot conceal your hate for truth.
> 
> Is Amazon.com not a kosher site?
> 
> Jewish History Jewish Religion The Weight of Three Thousand Years Pluto Middle Eastern Studies Israel Shahak Gore Vidal Edward Said 9780745308197 Amazon.com Books
> 
> 
> Most people (more than 90%) think that Israel Shahak is a good guy, and he had written great books.
> 
> Here is the comment that most readers regarded as healpful:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Helpful Customer Reviews*
> 107 of 125 people found the following review helpful
> Such views are usually censored...
> By A Customer on July 26, 2000
> Format: Paperback
> I highly recommend reading the book "Jewish history, Jewish Religion". Its author, Israel Shahak, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, engages in deep introspection about Jewish religion and practices.
> He seems deeply toubled by the rigidity, and intolerance of Jewish religion. Shahak quotes from the Talmud and points out a pervasive Jewish racism and haughtiness toward non-Jews.
> He believes that anti-semitism may have its roots in this historic Jewish mindset. Shahak also points out a wide-spread practice of deception and double-speak.
> In writing this book, he hopes that other Jews will engage in similar introspection to estabish a more harmonious relationship with Goyims.
> Recommended books: 'The Holocaust Industry' (by Finkelstein) 'An Eye for an Eye' (John Sack)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you belong to a minority that hates Shahak and hates the freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think any school curriculum around the world is teaching about Shahak and the others...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only retarded people do not learn more than the propaganda, offered in their school curriculum.
> 
> BTW, I am not an American, and our school curriculum is not as retarded, as the American school curriculum.
Click to expand...


Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.  It's best to keep away from him.  Even if he were in an orange jumpsuit about to have his head cut off by a member of ISIS, his last words to his captor would be, "Did you know that Jews bake their Passover unleavened bread with Christian babies' blood?"  But what can you expect from a German?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Amahl Bishara*

**


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.



What is wrong with quoting the Talmud?
Is the Talmud a secret book that non-Jews are not allowed to read?

You seem to be very concerned about the truth, you try to hide it, because you believe that the truth is "hateful".

BTW, a grown up man attacks the arguments of his opponents.
Attacking the person, calling silly names and playing the old and tired "Hitler/Nazi" card, instead of attacking the arguments, is childish.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

MJB12741 said:


> Surely even the Pali supporters aren't so uninformed as to believe Zionism actually started with the Jews.  Or is it possible they really are so dumb as to believe that the Jew Theodore Herzel started the Zionist movement?
> 
> 
> Excerpt The Christian Roots of Zionism Religion Dispatches



Zionism began with the Christians. I am a Zionist.  To be an anti-Zionist is to be an anti-semite.  It is not about desiring the harm or killing of anyone. It is to believe that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people - a Jewish State and a land that should be entitled to the same peace and respect and rights as any other sovereign nation on earth.  Christians pray for the peace of Jerusalem.  Not half of Jerusalem.  _All _of Jerusalem because Jerusalem can never be divided.  Jerusalem is the Capitol of Israel.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with quoting the Talmud?
> Is the Talmud a secret book that non-Jews are not allowed to read?
> 
> You seem to be very concerned about the truth, you try to hide it, because you believe that the truth is "hateful".
> 
> BTW, a grown up man attacks the arguments of his opponents.
> Attacking the person, calling silly names and playing the old and tired "Hitler/Nazi" card, instead of attacking the arguments, is childish.
Click to expand...


Are you not the author of this OP based on hatred of the Jews and Israel?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with quoting the Talmud?
> Is the Talmud a secret book that non-Jews are not allowed to read?
> 
> You seem to be very concerned about the truth, you try to hide it, because you believe that the truth is "hateful".
> 
> BTW, a grown up man attacks the arguments of his opponents.
> Attacking the person, calling silly names and playing the old and tired "Hitler/Nazi" card, instead of attacking the arguments, is childish.
Click to expand...


The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.  I've been on message boards long enough to observe that those who begin by quoting from it are usually the ones who harbor a tremendous hatred of Jews.
Your avatar makes my blood run cold.  My dad's entire family was murdered by the Nazis.  Therefore, I will try not to address you in the future.


----------



## Hossfly

Art__Allm said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You' are so obvious what you are, Art.  Did I say I hate Shahak?  However, it is evident to anyone with brains and who isn't anti-Semitic that  the only way the Jew haters found out about Shahak and the other Jews mentioned was by reading the NeoNazi/Islamofascist5 hate sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are using in your language a lot of meaningless words, invented by Zionist supremacists, like "Islamofascits", and you cannot conceal your hate for truth.
> 
> Is Amazon.com not a kosher site?
> 
> Jewish History Jewish Religion The Weight of Three Thousand Years Pluto Middle Eastern Studies Israel Shahak Gore Vidal Edward Said 9780745308197 Amazon.com Books
> 
> 
> Most people (more than 90%) think that Israel Shahak is a good guy, and he had written great books.
> 
> Here is the comment that most readers regarded as healpful:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Helpful Customer Reviews*
> 107 of 125 people found the following review helpful
> Such views are usually censored...
> By A Customer on July 26, 2000
> Format: Paperback
> I highly recommend reading the book "Jewish history, Jewish Religion". Its author, Israel Shahak, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, engages in deep introspection about Jewish religion and practices.
> He seems deeply toubled by the rigidity, and intolerance of Jewish religion. Shahak quotes from the Talmud and points out a pervasive Jewish racism and haughtiness toward non-Jews.
> He believes that anti-semitism may have its roots in this historic Jewish mindset. Shahak also points out a wide-spread practice of deception and double-speak.
> In writing this book, he hopes that other Jews will engage in similar introspection to estabish a more harmonious relationship with Goyims.
> Recommended books: 'The Holocaust Industry' (by Finkelstein) 'An Eye for an Eye' (John Sack)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you belong to a minority that hates Shahak and hates the freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think any school curriculum around the world is teaching about Shahak and the others...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only retarded people do not learn more than the propaganda, offered in their school curriculum.
> 
> BTW, I am not an American, and our school curriculum is not as retarded, as the American school curriculum.
Click to expand...

Let me reiterate -- the hate sites on the Internet are  gold mines for anti-Semites such as you.  Do you really think any reasonable person is going to believe that you knew all about Shahak and the other Jews before these hate sites started to appear? Even a Muslim woman poster from India  knew about Shahak and the other Jews.  I don't think they were teaching about them in her madrassa.

Art keeps on saying I hate Shahak and hate freedom of speech.  Did anyone notice me saying I hate Shahak.  By mentioning that he is one of the favorite Jews on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites is not stating that I hate him.  I know you are frustrated, Art, because you can't speak up in Germany about the Jews that you hate, but look how lucky you are able to get on an American message board and have all the freedom of speech you want.

http://www.wernercohn.com/Shahak.html


----------



## Hossfly

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You' are so obvious what you are, Art.  Did I say I hate Shahak?  However, it is evident to anyone with brains and who isn't anti-Semitic that  the only way the Jew haters found out about Shahak and the other Jews mentioned was by reading the NeoNazi/Islamofascist5 hate sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are using in your language a lot of meaningless words, invented by Zionist supremacists, like "Islamofascits", and you cannot conceal your hate for truth.
> 
> Is Amazon.com not a kosher site?
> 
> Jewish History Jewish Religion The Weight of Three Thousand Years Pluto Middle Eastern Studies Israel Shahak Gore Vidal Edward Said 9780745308197 Amazon.com Books
> 
> 
> Most people (more than 90%) think that Israel Shahak is a good guy, and he had written great books.
> 
> Here is the comment that most readers regarded as healpful:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Helpful Customer Reviews*
> 107 of 125 people found the following review helpful
> Such views are usually censored...
> By A Customer on July 26, 2000
> Format: Paperback
> I highly recommend reading the book "Jewish history, Jewish Religion". Its author, Israel Shahak, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, engages in deep introspection about Jewish religion and practices.
> He seems deeply toubled by the rigidity, and intolerance of Jewish religion. Shahak quotes from the Talmud and points out a pervasive Jewish racism and haughtiness toward non-Jews.
> He believes that anti-semitism may have its roots in this historic Jewish mindset. Shahak also points out a wide-spread practice of deception and double-speak.
> In writing this book, he hopes that other Jews will engage in similar introspection to estabish a more harmonious relationship with Goyims.
> Recommended books: 'The Holocaust Industry' (by Finkelstein) 'An Eye for an Eye' (John Sack)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you belong to a minority that hates Shahak and hates the freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think any school curriculum around the world is teaching about Shahak and the others...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only retarded people do not learn more than the propaganda, offered in their school curriculum.
> 
> BTW, I am not an American, and our school curriculum is not as retarded, as the American school curriculum.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.  It's best to keep away from him.  Even if he were in an orange jumpsuit about to have his head cut off by a member of ISIS, his last words to his captor would be, "Did you know that Jews bake their Passover unleavened bread with Christian babies' blood?"  But what can you expect from a German?
Click to expand...


I think many viewers picked up what he was the minute he appeared here.  As for the fake Talmud quotes, it is pathetic how those like Art have picked them up from the hate sites and then put them on forums as if they were the real thing, not realizing that by now we knew that they are not Talmud scholars and the quotes are fake  Maybe they all took a quickie coarse on the Talmud at the David Duke Yeshiva.  By the way, so many Germans are swell people.  They don't sound like a former member of the Hitler Youth like Art does and who still worship their Fuehrer

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hossfly said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You' are so obvious what you are, Art.  Did I say I hate Shahak?  However, it is evident to anyone with brains and who isn't anti-Semitic that  the only way the Jew haters found out about Shahak and the other Jews mentioned was by reading the NeoNazi/Islamofascist5 hate sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are using in your language a lot of meaningless words, invented by Zionist supremacists, like "Islamofascits", and you cannot conceal your hate for truth.
> 
> Is Amazon.com not a kosher site?
> 
> Jewish History Jewish Religion The Weight of Three Thousand Years Pluto Middle Eastern Studies Israel Shahak Gore Vidal Edward Said 9780745308197 Amazon.com Books
> 
> 
> Most people (more than 90%) think that Israel Shahak is a good guy, and he had written great books.
> 
> Here is the comment that most readers regarded as healpful:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Helpful Customer Reviews*
> 107 of 125 people found the following review helpful
> Such views are usually censored...
> By A Customer on July 26, 2000
> Format: Paperback
> I highly recommend reading the book "Jewish history, Jewish Religion". Its author, Israel Shahak, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, engages in deep introspection about Jewish religion and practices.
> He seems deeply toubled by the rigidity, and intolerance of Jewish religion. Shahak quotes from the Talmud and points out a pervasive Jewish racism and haughtiness toward non-Jews.
> He believes that anti-semitism may have its roots in this historic Jewish mindset. Shahak also points out a wide-spread practice of deception and double-speak.
> In writing this book, he hopes that other Jews will engage in similar introspection to estabish a more harmonious relationship with Goyims.
> Recommended books: 'The Holocaust Industry' (by Finkelstein) 'An Eye for an Eye' (John Sack)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you belong to a minority that hates Shahak and hates the freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think any school curriculum around the world is teaching about Shahak and the others...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only retarded people do not learn more than the propaganda, offered in their school curriculum.
> 
> BTW, I am not an American, and our school curriculum is not as retarded, as the American school curriculum.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.  It's best to keep away from him.  Even if he were in an orange jumpsuit about to have his head cut off by a member of ISIS, his last words to his captor would be, "Did you know that Jews bake their Passover unleavened bread with Christian babies' blood?"  But what can you expect from a German?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think many viewers picked up what he was the minute he appeared here.  As for the fake Talmud quotes, it is pathetic how those like Art have picked them up from the hate sites and then put them on forums as if they were the real thing, not realizing that by now we knew that they are not Talmud scholars and the quotes are fake  Maybe they all took a quickie coarse on the Talmud at the David Duke Yeshiva.  By the way, so many Germans are swell people.  They don't sound like a former member of the Hitler Youth like Art does and who still worship their Fuehrer
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/
Click to expand...


I had heard and read that most Germans today are very remorseful for what their grandparents did.  But Art freaks me out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Maysoon Zayid *

**


----------



## aris2chat

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly, I knew what he was, as soon as he started quoting the Talmud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with quoting the Talmud?
> Is the Talmud a secret book that non-Jews are not allowed to read?
> 
> You seem to be very concerned about the truth, you try to hide it, because you believe that the truth is "hateful".
> 
> BTW, a grown up man attacks the arguments of his opponents.
> Attacking the person, calling silly names and playing the old and tired "Hitler/Nazi" card, instead of attacking the arguments, is childish.
Click to expand...


It is a book few non-jews know how to read and even less understand

It take years of study for jews to read and a life time to try and understand


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.



Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.

And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.

If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.

If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.

It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.

In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.

Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!

Can you get my point?


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I had heard and read that most Germans today are very remorseful for what their grandparents did.  But Art freaks me out.



You do not know anything about my ancestors, so playing the "Nazi-Card" will not help you , this "argument" does not work with me.

BTW, my ancestors did not live in Germany during WWII, they lived in East Europe, and they were victims of blood thirsty Anti-Christians Bolsheviks.

BTW, are you remorseful for the Nakba and for what Zionists did to Palestinians?
Are you remorseful for what Bolsheviks did to Christians?

I do not say that you have to be remorseful for that, because you personally did not live then, but if you play the "remorsefulness"-card, I just wonder if you yourself are a remorceful person.


----------



## Phoenall

fanger said:


> Allergic to the Hasbara you swallow and regurgitate, thinking it is a truth, as it suits your mindset








 Still better than the pallywood productions that you push as the truth all the time


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Still better than the pallywood productions that you push as the truth all the time



The term "pallywood" is another linguistic fraud, invented by Zionists, who control Hollywood and brainwash the Americans with expensive fiction movies and block busters that contain Zionist  propaganda messages.


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still better than the pallywood productions that you push as the truth all the time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The term "pallywood" is another linguistic fraud, invented by Zionists, who control Hollywood and brainwash the Americans with expensive fiction movies and block busters that contain Zionist  propaganda messages.
Click to expand...



Pallywood is a fraud but not linguistic. It's Taqqiya.
And although I agree that Hollywood is a dark dirty place they
produce less savages thirsty for revenge. Hollywood is modern mythology while Pallywood is a recruitment mechanism.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still better than the pallywood productions that you push as the truth all the time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The term "pallywood" is another linguistic fraud, invented by Zionists, who control Hollywood and brainwash the Americans with expensive fiction movies and block busters that contain Zionist  propaganda messages.
Click to expand...






 And you can produce these movies and blockbusters with the proof that they contain Zionist propaganda messages. You know like we produce the pallywood films


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still better than the pallywood productions that you push as the truth all the time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The term "pallywood" is another linguistic fraud, invented by Zionists, who control Hollywood and brainwash the Americans with expensive fiction movies and block busters that contain Zionist  propaganda messages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood is a fraud but not linguistic. It's Taqqiya.
> And although I agree that Hollywood is a dark dirty place they
> produce less savages thirsty for revenge. Hollywood is modern mythology while Pallywood is a recruitment mechanism.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest that Pallywood'ism is a pathology. It is the result of the maintenance of an irrational Arab-moslem mindset that seeks to continue the absurdity of an invented people with an invented identity and invented "nationality" who have managed to swindle an entire UN agency dedicated to the continuation of welfare payments to support Islamic terrorism


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> And you can produce these movies and blockbusters with the proof that they contain Zionist propaganda messages.



Yes, of course!
Hollywood is a huge brainwashing machine, controlled by Zionists, and some of them are even citizens of  Israel, and they are loyal to Israel.




Phoenall said:


> You know like we produce the pallywood films



There is no such thing, this is just a linguistic invention of Zionists. There are no film studious, no play writers, like in Hollywood.

There are just some private initiatives, that are not even coordinated.

Today everybody can shoot with his smart phone a documentary, showing the crimes of Zionists.  

That has nothing to do with any "woods".


----------



## rylah

Here's Your pallywood with studios and budgets from kings:


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you can produce these movies and blockbusters with the proof that they contain Zionist propaganda messages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course!
> Hollywood is a huge brainwashing machine, controlled by Zionists, and some of them are even citizens of  Israel, and they are loyal to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know like we produce the pallywood films
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing, this is just a linguistic invention of Zionists. There are no film studious, no play writers, like in Hollywood.
> 
> There are just some private initiatives, that are not even coordinated.
> 
> Today everybody can shoot with his smart phone a documentary, showing the crimes of Zionists.
> 
> That has nothing to do with any "woods".
Click to expand...





 It is a colloquialism for the Palestinian media machine that produces propaganda footage for the worlds media. The heavily re-worked videos show a completely different story to the un edited versions. I give you the Al Durah case that allegedly showed the IDF killing a father and son, only to see them both alive and well in the un-edited version.
 As you say anyone can shoot FAKE footage on a cell phone, it is doing it so you cant see the joints that takes skill. Many of your video's show nothing at all that is conclusive and provable, unlike the recent media footage of hamas war crimes and crimes against humanity.


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
Click to expand...



I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.

Pick a topic of Your choice.


----------



## aris2chat

rylah said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
> And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
> Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.
> 
> Pick a topic of Your choice.
Click to expand...


most of the translations are poorly done or intentional disinformation.  Cases and arguments in the talmud should not be taken out of context.  It is not a one side dialogue but a give and take of idea and example of how the laws can or should be applied to different circumstances.

It takes a life time to learn to read and understand the talmud.  Why do outsiders think they can dissect and explain a text they can't even read let alone never actually studied?


----------



## rylah

aris2chat said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
> And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
> Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.
> 
> Pick a topic of Your choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> most of the translations are poorly done or intentional disinformation.  Cases and arguments in the talmud should not be taken out of context.  It is not a one side dialogue but a give and take of idea and example of how the laws can or should be applied to different circumstances.
> 
> It takes a life time to learn to read and understand the talmud.  Why do outsiders think they can dissect and explain a text they can't even read let alone never actually studied?
Click to expand...


Because rabbis debated on everything and were not shy to present  a radical argument for the sake of  clarification and depth. Even when dealing with scriptures.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Rafeef Ziadah*

**


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
Click to expand...


As said before, I'm ready to debate, just pick a subject....You know it can be relevant...I'm sure there're Plishtim (the original ones -not the arabs) in the Talmud


----------



## Mindful

*9,000 Photographs from 1800’s British Mandate of Palestine – with no trace of ‘Palestinians’*

*Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? *

*Nowhere.*

*Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*

*Palestinians are a fake creation ordered and constructed by the Grand Mufti Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini[1889-1974]. They were basically discovered (formed and invented) and originate from mass immigration from Egypt and Saudi Arabia with purpose to commit jihad. The Egyptian fighters ended up in Gaza and the Saudi fighters ended up in the West Bank according to their rout of entry. This has been well documented by British government reports from Transjordan. It also fits the video clips and rants by Hamas leaders, who seem well aware that Palestinians are fake yet continue to argue that they ‘lost land’. *

*We are dealing with a terrorist organization here, and not a people who became victims of loss of land.*


9 000 Photographs from 1800 s British Mandate of Palestine with no trace of Palestinians Palestine-Israel Conflict


----------



## Phoenall

aris2chat said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
> And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
> Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.
> 
> Pick a topic of Your choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> most of the translations are poorly done or intentional disinformation.  Cases and arguments in the talmud should not be taken out of context.  It is not a one side dialogue but a give and take of idea and example of how the laws can or should be applied to different circumstances.
> 
> It takes a life time to learn to read and understand the talmud.  Why do outsiders think they can dissect and explain a text they can't even read let alone never actually studied?
Click to expand...







 because they think that everything is like the Koran and centred on just one or two lines of text. They cant understand that some books need full chapters to be read to get the context, so they cherrypick tiny parts that suit their POV.


----------



## Art__Allm

rylah said:


> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote....



I have only to quote the prominent Jewish religious authorities on the Talmud, like Ovadia Yosef, Yitzchak Ginsburgh or Moshe ben Maimon (Moses Maimonides).

Shall I do that?


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have only to quote the prominent Jewish religious authorities on the Talmud, like Ovadia Yosef, Yitzchak Ginsburgh or Moshe ben Maimon (Moses Maimonides).
> 
> Shall I do that?
Click to expand...


Do what You want, but without context I'm afraid well be tossing water with a fork... You can't expect to grasp it by not ever reading a full chapter...
Each Rebbe You'll  present I can present a counterpart in the opposite direction...that's the thing about Talmud You seem to miss. There's a whole system of debates so You can pick anything out of context thinking You know the meaning. That's only the 1st stage- the literal meaning of the word-PSHAT...then we go deeper and deeper using specific tools and systems.

If You want a mature debate or dialogue on a whole series of books that many Law, theology and philosophy systems were based upon, there's no way to oversimplify.

Although  Maimonides is considered now a cornerstone, he was debated fiercely during his time. And that's just one example.

Am I clear?
I myself have my problems with Talmud, especially the Babylonian
but in no way I'm gonna oversimplify it to 'debunk' isolated parts of a debate.

If You want You can 'dumb this down' but this way You'll only prove my point.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have only to quote the prominent Jewish religious authorities on the Talmud, like Ovadia Yosef, Yitzchak Ginsburgh or Moshe ben Maimon (Moses Maimonides).
> 
> Shall I do that?
Click to expand...






Then you will be plagiarising and not understanding the content yourself, but just taking the words of another as your own. Same with when you just post C&P as your answers to questions, this shows your lack of understanding and that you just blindly follow the propaganda.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
> And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
> Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.
> 
> Pick a topic of Your choice.
Click to expand...

Considering the Israelites couldn't read or write in Babylon...it must BE SALEM


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
> And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
> Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.
> 
> Pick a topic of Your choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Considering the Israelites couldn't read or write in Babylon...it must BE SALEM
Click to expand...


Hebrews already read and wrote volumes of books for generations (that later became the basis of many theology, philosophy and law systems among other nations)
before the muslim prophet who COULD NOT read or write, fought the Hebrews for being declined.
They wrote all those while the arabs were still burying their daughters alive in the DESERT and prayed to numerous sky deities in Mecca.


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Then you will be plagiarising...


No, if you mention the author, then you are just quoting, not plagiarising.
Do you really not know the difference between quoting and plagiarising?
Every educated person should know the difference.


Phoenall said:


> ..and not understanding the content yourself, but just taking the words of another as your own.


Well, anybody can use this silly argumentation.
Muslim would say that you do not understand Islam, that you are taking the words out of context, etc. 
Communists would say that you do not understand communism, and so on.
Well, I will quote the mentioned Jewish scholars, and you will explain to us what they intended to say.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you will be plagiarising...
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you mention the author, then you are just quoting, not plagiarising.
> Do you really not know the difference between quoting and plagiarising?
> Every educated person should know the difference.
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..and not understanding the content yourself, but just taking the words of another as your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, anybody can use this silly argumentation.
> Muslim would say that you do not understand Islam, that you are taking the words out of context, etc.
> Communists would say that you do not understand communism, and so on.
> Well, I will quote the mentioned Jewish scholars, and you will explain to us what they intended to say.
Click to expand...






They do every time they are quoted having made a statement to the effect of KILL THE UNBELIEVERS

 No you have to say what you think they are trying to say, and don't forget it has to be in full context


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> They do every time they are quoted having made a statement to the effect of KILL THE UNBELIEVERS



Well, they say that you have to understand this in the historical context.
The "unbelievers" were the pagans who lived 1500 years ago and who wanted to kill the Muslims. That is how most Muslims understand this statement.
The "people of the Book" (Christians and Jews) are Believers.



Phoenall said:


> No you have to say what you think they are trying to say, and don't forget it has to be in full context



Well, I cannot understand the Arabic or Hebrew language, so I have to rely on translation and the opinion of Muslim or Jewish religious scholars.

Can you quote any prominent Muslim scholar, who thinks that Muslims have still to kill the "unbelievers", if these "unbelievers" are no threat to them?

What to Judaism, here a quote:



> *Yitzchak Ginsburgh* (born 14 November 1944) is an American-born Israeli rabbi. He is currently the president of the Od Yosef ChaiYeshivah in the settlement of Yitzhar in the West Bank, and the spiritual leader of the kabbalistic Gal Einai movement.
> ....
> In his writings, Ginzburg gives prominence to Halachic and kabbalistic approaches that emphasize the distinction between Jew and non-Jew (Gentile), imposing a clear separation and hierarchy in this respect. He claims that while the Jews are the Chosen People and were created in God's image, the Gentiles do not have this status....* Ginzburg stated that, on the theoretical level, if a Jew requires a liver transplant to survive, it would be permissible to seize a Gentile and take their liver forcefully.*
> 
> Yitzchak Ginsburgh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Do you have any problems to understand this hate speech?
Do you need more quotes from more prominent Jewish religious scholars?


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do every time they are quoted having made a statement to the effect of KILL THE UNBELIEVERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they say that you have to understand this in the historical context.
> The "unbelievers" were the pagans who lived 1500 years ago and who wanted to kill the Muslims. That is how most Muslims understand this statement.
> The "people of the Book" (Christians and Jews) are Believers.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you have to say what you think they are trying to say, and don't forget it has to be in full context
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I cannot understand the Arabic or Hebrew language, so I have to rely on translation and the opinion of Muslim or Jewish religious scholars.
> 
> Can you quote any prominent Muslim scholar, who thinks that Muslims have still to kill the "unbelievers", if these "unbelievers" are no threat to them?
> 
> What to Judaism, here a quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yitzchak Ginsburgh* (born 14 November 1944) is an American-born Israeli rabbi. He is currently the president of the Od Yosef ChaiYeshivah in the settlement of Yitzhar in the West Bank, and the spiritual leader of the kabbalistic Gal Einai movement.
> ....
> In his writings, Ginzburg gives prominence to Halachic and kabbalistic approaches that emphasize the distinction between Jew and non-Jew (Gentile), imposing a clear separation and hierarchy in this respect. He claims that while the Jews are the Chosen People and were created in God's image, the Gentiles do not have this status....* Ginzburg stated that, on the theoretical level, if a Jew requires a liver transplant to survive, it would be permissible to seize a Gentile and take their liver forcefully.*
> 
> Yitzchak Ginsburgh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any problems to understand this hate speech?
> Do you need more quotes from more prominent Jewish religious scholars?
Click to expand...


Yes please. And do You want to see luciferian, false messiah followers among what You
call "prominent jewish scholars" of recent times?
You can also find references to these people in Torah (Exodus) and in the Babylonian Talmud.


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do every time they are quoted having made a statement to the effect of KILL THE UNBELIEVERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they say that you have to understand this in the historical context.
> The "unbelievers" were the pagans who lived 1500 years ago and who wanted to kill the Muslims. That is how most Muslims understand this statement.
> The "people of the Book" (Christians and Jews) are Believers.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you have to say what you think they are trying to say, and don't forget it has to be in full context
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I cannot understand the Arabic or Hebrew language, so I have to rely on translation and the opinion of Muslim or Jewish religious scholars.
> 
> Can you quote any prominent Muslim scholar, who thinks that Muslims have still to kill the "unbelievers", if these "unbelievers" are no threat to them?
> 
> What to Judaism, here a quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yitzchak Ginsburgh* (born 14 November 1944) is an American-born Israeli rabbi. He is currently the president of the Od Yosef ChaiYeshivah in the settlement of Yitzhar in the West Bank, and the spiritual leader of the kabbalistic Gal Einai movement.
> ....
> In his writings, Ginzburg gives prominence to Halachic and kabbalistic approaches that emphasize the distinction between Jew and non-Jew (Gentile), imposing a clear separation and hierarchy in this respect. He claims that while the Jews are the Chosen People and were created in God's image, the Gentiles do not have this status....* Ginzburg stated that, on the theoretical level, if a Jew requires a liver transplant to survive, it would be permissible to seize a Gentile and take their liver forcefully.*
> 
> Yitzchak Ginsburgh - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any problems to understand this hate speech?
> Do you need more quotes from more prominent Jewish religious scholars?
Click to expand...


From the article You've attached:
_"The *Ashkenazi chief rabbi *__*Avraham Shapira*__* condemned Ginzburg's views*, one of the *few* of the Israeli rabbinate to do so."
_
Now why one of the few:
Avraham Shapira - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

_"Shapira had been the *head of the *_*Rabbinical court*_ of __Jerusalem__, and both a member and the* head of the Supreme Rabbinic Court."*_
*
See my point?*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested. Let's see what You have to quote, and by the way if we're going to deal with the Talmud, we'd have to deal with whole chapters of DEBATES between generations of community leaders. Not just singe sentences. Mind You Maimonides had to summarize it because Hebrews themselves had difficulty to swallow all the info.
> And please specify which Talmud- the Babylonian or from Jerusalem.
> Next  we'll have to decide on specific interpretation schools and the level of depth were going to dig for- there're 4 stages.
> 
> Pick a topic of Your choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Considering the Israelites couldn't read or write in Babylon...it must BE SALEM
Click to expand...


That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  There was the Babylonian Talmud, for starters.


----------



## Phoenall

Wrong as the koran states the people of the book as being the unbelievers, and this is reinforced in the hadiths when it says "KILL THE JEWS" and "KILL THE CHRISTIANS"


 So the best you have is some weird Jewish sect that has only a handful of members, try looking at the words of Abu Hamza, Adnam Choudray, Ayotollah Khomieni, Abu Mazen to name but a few of Islam's religious and political leaders that say " KILL THE JEWS" and " FIRST SATURDAY, THEN SUNDAY"

How about some mainstream Jewish leaders that have made their words official Jewish government policy like the names I gave ?


----------



## Mindful

*The Secret Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians*

According to the researcher, many Palestinians captured by Shiite militias in Iraq have been brutally tortured and forced to "confess" to their alleged involvement in terrorism. Since 2003, the number of Palestinians there has dropped from 25,000 to 6,000.

Most interesting is the complete indifference displayed by international human rights organizations, the media and the Palestinian Authority (PA) toward the mistreatment of Palestinians in Arab countries. International journalists do not care about the Palestinians in the Arab world because this is not a story that can be blamed on Israel.


The UN and other international bodies have obviously not heard of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the Arab world. They too are so obsessed with Israel that they prefer not to hear about the suffering of Palestinians under Arab regimes.


PA leaders say they want to press "war crimes" charges against Israel with the International Criminal Court. However, when it comes to ethnic cleansing and torture of Palestinians in Arab countries such as Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, they choose to look the other way.

The Secret Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians


----------



## rylah

Hamas member:
"We all have ARAB roots,...and every palestinian can prove his ARAB roots-
whether from Saudi Arabia, Yemen or ANYWHERE"


----------



## aris2chat

rylah said:


> Hamas member:
> "We all have ARAB roots,...and every palestinian can prove his ARAB roots-
> whether from Saudi Arabia, Yemen or ANYWHERE"




barf


----------



## Friends

I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.


----------



## theliq

Friends said:


> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.


Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
Click to expand...






 That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
Click to expand...

Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
Click to expand...





 What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
Click to expand...





 What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
Click to expand...

You keep repeating your droll..STOP IT,IT'S BORING


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
Click to expand...

!!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
                                               = Abandoned(as on an Island)
                                               = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.

So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish


I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
Click to expand...

Keep TRYING......You think you are wise but you are Foolish


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep repeating your droll..STOP IT,IT'S BORING
Click to expand...





 As you say it is the truth and so is valid.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> !!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
> = Abandoned(as on an Island)
> = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.
> 
> So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish
> 
> 
> I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............
Click to expand...






 No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you

 You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep TRYING......You think you are wise but you are Foolish
Click to expand...





 Not as foolish or as big headed as you, in fact you remind me of a slave owner who bragged about his sweat shop in Pakistan that employed  children because their eyesight was better. This meant he could use less light for them to make trainers.( sneakers for the Americans )


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> !!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
> = Abandoned(as on an Island)
> = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.
> 
> So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish
> 
> 
> I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you
> 
> You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.
Click to expand...

Just for you the London Jew (and listen carefully) www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyTxWvxYr4

And for your Guilt ..A Timely REMINDER...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3VsZ7QD08

You carry Guilt like a Chain Around Your Neck...Zionist..........Play Loudly Phoe., Play Loudly INDEED


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep TRYING......You think you are wise but you are Foolish
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not as foolish or as big headed as you, in fact you remind me of a slave owner who bragged about his sweat shop in Pakistan that employed  children because their eyesight was better. This meant he could use less light for them to make trainers.( sneakers for the Americans )
Click to expand...

Wooo not me,I pay Australian wages juniors starts at AU$33 per hour(that's those between 15-16) casual part time........many employees earn well over $100,000 Dollars a year.....we never use slave labour but are an equal opportunity employer(that means Women earn the same as Men).

We are not like Nike or British Companies that use SLAVE LABOUR....to their Shame...and Exploiting Big Profits out of the poor.....Nope I prefer to leave it to the Brits,who buy Junk...Brits? or is that ? like you.See ya around Loser.I ain't no bighead...just a Winner


----------



## Hollie

Who are the beggars and squatters with the invented title of "Palestinians"?

Palestinians The Difference between Us and Them

*Palestinians: The Difference between Us and Them*




_

We Palestinians have failed to educate our people on the principles of tolerance and peace. Instead, we condone and applaud terrorism, especially when it is directed against Jews. We want the world to condemn terrorism only when it claims the lives of Palestinians.

Abbas's ambiguous, half-hearted condemnations of attacks by Palestinians against Israelis are only intended for public consumption and are primarily aimed at appeasing Western donors so that they will continue channeling funds to the Palestinian Authority. In addition, his condemnations seek to blame Israel for Palestinian terror attacks.

Netanyahu's strong and clear condemnation left me and other Palestinians wondering when was the last time we heard similar statements from our leaders. I cannot remember Abbas or any other Palestinian leader ever expressing shock and outrage over the killing of a Jew in a Palestinian terror attack, nor the last time a Palestinian official visited the Israeli victims of a Palestinian terror attack.

Each time Abbas reluctantly condemns a Palestinian terror attack, he faces a wave of criticism from many Palestinians. Unlike the Israeli public, many Palestinians often rush to justify, and even welcome, terror attacks against Jews. Has there ever been a Palestinian activist who dared to hold a rally in a Palestinian city to condemn suicide bombings or the murder of an entire Jewish family? The Israeli president has good reason to feel ashamed for the murder of the baby. But when will we Palestinians ever have a sense of shame over the way we react to the murder of Jews?
_


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> !!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
> = Abandoned(as on an Island)
> = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.
> 
> So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish
> 
> 
> I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you
> 
> You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just for you the London Jew (and listen carefully) www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyTxWvxYr4
> 
> And for your Guilt ..A Timely REMINDER...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3VsZ7QD08
> 
> You carry Guilt like a Chain Around Your Neck...Zionist..........Play Loudly Phoe., Play Loudly INDEED
Click to expand...






 Just for you the islamonazi idiot I am not in London and I am not a Jew. Are you that stupid that you cant take it in, I would not know a draedle from a kippur. You are the one that carries your guilt around your neck, and one day it will strangle you.

 Yes I am a Zionist and proud of it, but then you do not know what a Zionist is you just jump on the bandwagon and spout it as a racist term. Much as you spout Jew as a racist term, or black feller when talking of the indigenous Australians.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That you have constantly failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and when called on your attempts resort to name calling and personal abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep TRYING......You think you are wise but you are Foolish
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not as foolish or as big headed as you, in fact you remind me of a slave owner who bragged about his sweat shop in Pakistan that employed  children because their eyesight was better. This meant he could use less light for them to make trainers.( sneakers for the Americans )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wooo not me,I pay Australian wages juniors starts at AU$33 per hour(that's those between 15-16) casual part time........many employees earn well over $100,000 Dollars a year.....we never use slave labour but are an equal opportunity employer(that means Women earn the same as Men).
> 
> We are not like Nike or British Companies that use SLAVE LABOUR....to their Shame...and Exploiting Big Profits out of the poor.....Nope I prefer to leave it to the Brits,who buy Junk...Brits? or is that ? like you.See ya around Loser.I ain't no bighead...just a Winner
Click to expand...






 Don't you mean muslim companies that make promises to British companies they know they wont meet. Mind you the workers need those wages to be able to live with healthcare costs being the highest in the world.


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phoe,As you know I am always correct,why don't you stop supporting and agreeing with.....Fools,Come on.......you do know better,steve..anyway tell me how can the truth be called Name Calling or Abuse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> !!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
> = Abandoned(as on an Island)
> = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.
> 
> So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish
> 
> 
> I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you
> 
> You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just for you the London Jew (and listen carefully) www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyTxWvxYr4
> 
> And for your Guilt ..A Timely REMINDER...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3VsZ7QD08
> 
> You carry Guilt like a Chain Around Your Neck...Zionist..........Play Loudly Phoe., Play Loudly INDEED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for you the islamonazi idiot I am not in London and I am not a Jew. Are you that stupid that you cant take it in, I would not know a draedle from a kippur. You are the one that carries your guilt around your neck, and one day it will strangle you.
> 
> Yes I am a Zionist and proud of it, but then you do not know what a Zionist is you just jump on the bandwagon and spout it as a racist term. Much as you spout Jew as a racist term, or black feller when talking of the indigenous Australians.
Click to expand...

OK then a Zionist who lived(I reckon you still do actually) in London......so where have you infiltrated into now then???????????Zionist/ism is not used by me as a Racist term....but a factual description of Filthy Cult..Happy Now


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Who are the beggars and squatters with the invented title of "Palestinians"?
> 
> Palestinians The Difference between Us and Them
> 
> *Palestinians: The Difference between Us and Them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> We Palestinians have failed to educate our people on the principles of tolerance and peace. Instead, we condone and applaud terrorism, especially when it is directed against Jews. We want the world to condemn terrorism only when it claims the lives of Palestinians.
> 
> Abbas's ambiguous, half-hearted condemnations of attacks by Palestinians against Israelis are only intended for public consumption and are primarily aimed at appeasing Western donors so that they will continue channeling funds to the Palestinian Authority. In addition, his condemnations seek to blame Israel for Palestinian terror attacks.
> 
> Netanyahu's strong and clear condemnation left me and other Palestinians wondering when was the last time we heard similar statements from our leaders. I cannot remember Abbas or any other Palestinian leader ever expressing shock and outrage over the killing of a Jew in a Palestinian terror attack, nor the last time a Palestinian official visited the Israeli victims of a Palestinian terror attack.
> 
> Each time Abbas reluctantly condemns a Palestinian terror attack, he faces a wave of criticism from many Palestinians. Unlike the Israeli public, many Palestinians often rush to justify, and even welcome, terror attacks against Jews. Has there ever been a Palestinian activist who dared to hold a rally in a Palestinian city to condemn suicide bombings or the murder of an entire Jewish family? The Israeli president has good reason to feel ashamed for the murder of the baby. But when will we Palestinians ever have a sense of shame over the way we react to the murder of Jews?
> _


Toss On


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a maroon you are, you are never right because you only use islamonazi sources
> 
> 
> 
> !!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
> = Abandoned(as on an Island)
> = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.
> 
> So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish
> 
> 
> I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you
> 
> You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just for you the London Jew (and listen carefully) www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyTxWvxYr4
> 
> And for your Guilt ..A Timely REMINDER...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3VsZ7QD08
> 
> You carry Guilt like a Chain Around Your Neck...Zionist..........Play Loudly Phoe., Play Loudly INDEED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for you the islamonazi idiot I am not in London and I am not a Jew. Are you that stupid that you cant take it in, I would not know a draedle from a kippur. You are the one that carries your guilt around your neck, and one day it will strangle you.
> 
> Yes I am a Zionist and proud of it, but then you do not know what a Zionist is you just jump on the bandwagon and spout it as a racist term. Much as you spout Jew as a racist term, or black feller when talking of the indigenous Australians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then a Zionist who lived(I reckon you still do actually) in London......so where have you infiltrated into now then???????????Zionist/ism is not used by me as a Racist term....but a factual description of Filthy Cult..Happy Now
Click to expand...






 See you are being stupid again and not letting your brain think for you. I have never lived in London, I would not want to live in London and if I could I would wipe London of the map. I live in the same area I have for the last 60+ years in the North East of England, I worked in the same area from being 14 years old and retired in 2006.
 Nice of you to admit that you do use Zionist in a racist manner as shown by your words above claiming it to be a filthy cult, when in fact it is a political movement that believes in the right of ALL the Jews to have a homeland and to be able to defend that homeland from the likes of you.


----------



## Phoenall

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> !!!!!!!MAROON.......definitions= Dark Reddish Brown Colour
> = Abandoned(as on an Island)
> = Black runaway Slaves who became free,mainly in Jamaica,Surinam and other Islands in the West Indies.
> 
> So much for your spelling ...I think you mean't MORON= What u r.....LOL....from the Greek======Stupid Person/Foolish
> 
> 
> I'm theliq,still teaching the less educated..............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you
> 
> You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just for you the London Jew (and listen carefully) www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyTxWvxYr4
> 
> And for your Guilt ..A Timely REMINDER...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3VsZ7QD08
> 
> You carry Guilt like a Chain Around Your Neck...Zionist..........Play Loudly Phoe., Play Loudly INDEED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for you the islamonazi idiot I am not in London and I am not a Jew. Are you that stupid that you cant take it in, I would not know a draedle from a kippur. You are the one that carries your guilt around your neck, and one day it will strangle you.
> 
> Yes I am a Zionist and proud of it, but then you do not know what a Zionist is you just jump on the bandwagon and spout it as a racist term. Much as you spout Jew as a racist term, or black feller when talking of the indigenous Australians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then a Zionist who lived(I reckon you still do actually) in London......so where have you infiltrated into now then???????????Zionist/ism is not used by me as a Racist term....but a factual description of Filthy Cult..Happy Now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See you are being stupid again and not letting your brain think for you. I have never lived in London, I would not want to live in London and if I could I would wipe London of the map. I live in the same area I have for the last 60+ years in the North East of England, I worked in the same area from being 14 years old and retired in 2006.
> Nice of you to admit that you do use Zionist in a racist manner as shown by your words above claiming it to be a filthy cult, when in fact it is a political movement that believes in the right of ALL the Jews to have a homeland and to be able to defend that homeland from the likes of you.
Click to expand...




theliq said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the beggars and squatters with the invented title of "Palestinians"?
> 
> Palestinians The Difference between Us and Them
> 
> *Palestinians: The Difference between Us and Them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> We Palestinians have failed to educate our people on the principles of tolerance and peace. Instead, we condone and applaud terrorism, especially when it is directed against Jews. We want the world to condemn terrorism only when it claims the lives of Palestinians.
> 
> Abbas's ambiguous, half-hearted condemnations of attacks by Palestinians against Israelis are only intended for public consumption and are primarily aimed at appeasing Western donors so that they will continue channeling funds to the Palestinian Authority. In addition, his condemnations seek to blame Israel for Palestinian terror attacks.
> 
> Netanyahu's strong and clear condemnation left me and other Palestinians wondering when was the last time we heard similar statements from our leaders. I cannot remember Abbas or any other Palestinian leader ever expressing shock and outrage over the killing of a Jew in a Palestinian terror attack, nor the last time a Palestinian official visited the Israeli victims of a Palestinian terror attack.
> 
> Each time Abbas reluctantly condemns a Palestinian terror attack, he faces a wave of criticism from many Palestinians. Unlike the Israeli public, many Palestinians often rush to justify, and even welcome, terror attacks against Jews. Has there ever been a Palestinian activist who dared to hold a rally in a Palestinian city to condemn suicide bombings or the murder of an entire Jewish family? The Israeli president has good reason to feel ashamed for the murder of the baby. But when will we Palestinians ever have a sense of shame over the way we react to the murder of Jews?
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toss On
Click to expand...






 When did the arab muslim terrorists become Palestinians then, remember that prior to 1960 the term was used as you use Zionist today.

 What a complete moron you are and a nobody amongst other nobodies in the boiler room.    Seems that you Aussies are all the same big mouthed LIARS


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I put it in language you would be able to understand, you do get cartoons in Oz don't you
> 
> You could not teach yourself to wipe your arse if your life depended on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for you the London Jew (and listen carefully) www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyTxWvxYr4
> 
> And for your Guilt ..A Timely REMINDER...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3VsZ7QD08
> 
> You carry Guilt like a Chain Around Your Neck...Zionist..........Play Loudly Phoe., Play Loudly INDEED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for you the islamonazi idiot I am not in London and I am not a Jew. Are you that stupid that you cant take it in, I would not know a draedle from a kippur. You are the one that carries your guilt around your neck, and one day it will strangle you.
> 
> Yes I am a Zionist and proud of it, but then you do not know what a Zionist is you just jump on the bandwagon and spout it as a racist term. Much as you spout Jew as a racist term, or black feller when talking of the indigenous Australians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then a Zionist who lived(I reckon you still do actually) in London......so where have you infiltrated into now then???????????Zionist/ism is not used by me as a Racist term....but a factual description of Filthy Cult..Happy Now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See you are being stupid again and not letting your brain think for you. I have never lived in London, I would not want to live in London and if I could I would wipe London of the map. I live in the same area I have for the last 60+ years in the North East of England, I worked in the same area from being 14 years old and retired in 2006.
> Nice of you to admit that you do use Zionist in a racist manner as shown by your words above claiming it to be a filthy cult, when in fact it is a political movement that believes in the right of ALL the Jews to have a homeland and to be able to defend that homeland from the likes of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the beggars and squatters with the invented title of "Palestinians"?
> 
> Palestinians The Difference between Us and Them
> 
> *Palestinians: The Difference between Us and Them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> We Palestinians have failed to educate our people on the principles of tolerance and peace. Instead, we condone and applaud terrorism, especially when it is directed against Jews. We want the world to condemn terrorism only when it claims the lives of Palestinians.
> 
> Abbas's ambiguous, half-hearted condemnations of attacks by Palestinians against Israelis are only intended for public consumption and are primarily aimed at appeasing Western donors so that they will continue channeling funds to the Palestinian Authority. In addition, his condemnations seek to blame Israel for Palestinian terror attacks.
> 
> Netanyahu's strong and clear condemnation left me and other Palestinians wondering when was the last time we heard similar statements from our leaders. I cannot remember Abbas or any other Palestinian leader ever expressing shock and outrage over the killing of a Jew in a Palestinian terror attack, nor the last time a Palestinian official visited the Israeli victims of a Palestinian terror attack.
> 
> Each time Abbas reluctantly condemns a Palestinian terror attack, he faces a wave of criticism from many Palestinians. Unlike the Israeli public, many Palestinians often rush to justify, and even welcome, terror attacks against Jews. Has there ever been a Palestinian activist who dared to hold a rally in a Palestinian city to condemn suicide bombings or the murder of an entire Jewish family? The Israeli president has good reason to feel ashamed for the murder of the baby. But when will we Palestinians ever have a sense of shame over the way we react to the murder of Jews?
> _
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Toss On
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did the arab muslim terrorists become Palestinians then, remember that prior to 1960 the term was used as you use Zionist today.
> 
> What a complete moron you are and a nobody amongst other nobodies in the boiler room.    Seems that you Aussies are all the same big mouthed LIARS
Click to expand...

I am the Magnificent,Ever Living,Ever Faithful,Ever Loving,Ever Sure...........Not a Gutless Zionista....................You Play Skillfully theliqwww.youtube.com/watch?v=DknR0Oz3wLs

ONLY MY CULTURE IS HARDER THAN THE REST......play on but NOT WITH ME PHEO.,I'M FAR TOO HARD FOR YOU..........as I said the Magnificent..steve


----------



## Hollie

Who are the "Palestinians"?

The most successful welfare fraud in history.


Where Did All the Billions of Dollars Given to the Palestinian Authority Go 

Can you please explain to me why 20 years after Oslo and billions in dollars in foreign aid, the Palestinian Authority (PA) still has not built modern hospitals?  Or rather, why do the donor countries pour money down the PA drain without expecting even some face-saving results?”

Good question. Short answer: Swiss bank accounts. In other words, a huge amount of the money has been stolen. There is nothing more distasteful than rulers of a people–especially a poor people–who complain about their subjects’ suffering at the same time that they profit from it. Of course, when some foreign observer sees Palestinians in poor conditions they blame Israel, thus furthering the cause of the same leaders who, -by their intransigent policies, ensure that the situation continues.

The personal wealth of PA “president” Mahmoud Abbas is estimated at $100 million. Add onto that millions of dollars for a large number of PA and Fatah senior officials and you get the idea.




Yeah, we get the idea. An invented people with an invented national identity have an entire UN funded welfare agency committed to the continuation of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the "Palestinians"?
> 
> The most successful welfare fraud in history.
> 
> 
> Where Did All the Billions of Dollars Given to the Palestinian Authority Go
> 
> Can you please explain to me why 20 years after Oslo and billions in dollars in foreign aid, the Palestinian Authority (PA) still has not built modern hospitals?  Or rather, why do the donor countries pour money down the PA drain without expecting even some face-saving results?”
> 
> Good question. Short answer: Swiss bank accounts. In other words, a huge amount of the money has been stolen. There is nothing more distasteful than rulers of a people–especially a poor people–who complain about their subjects’ suffering at the same time that they profit from it. Of course, when some foreign observer sees Palestinians in poor conditions they blame Israel, thus furthering the cause of the same leaders who, -by their intransigent policies, ensure that the situation continues.
> 
> The personal wealth of PA “president” Mahmoud Abbas is estimated at $100 million. Add onto that millions of dollars for a large number of PA and Fatah senior officials and you get the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we get the idea. An invented people with an invented national identity have an entire UN funded welfare agency committed to the continuation of Islamic terrorism.


Abbas (as was his predecessor, Arafat) is the foreign supported oligarch of Palestine. His job is to sell his people down the river for money.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the "Palestinians"?
> 
> The most successful welfare fraud in history.
> 
> 
> Where Did All the Billions of Dollars Given to the Palestinian Authority Go
> 
> Can you please explain to me why 20 years after Oslo and billions in dollars in foreign aid, the Palestinian Authority (PA) still has not built modern hospitals?  Or rather, why do the donor countries pour money down the PA drain without expecting even some face-saving results?”
> 
> Good question. Short answer: Swiss bank accounts. In other words, a huge amount of the money has been stolen. There is nothing more distasteful than rulers of a people–especially a poor people–who complain about their subjects’ suffering at the same time that they profit from it. Of course, when some foreign observer sees Palestinians in poor conditions they blame Israel, thus furthering the cause of the same leaders who, -by their intransigent policies, ensure that the situation continues.
> 
> The personal wealth of PA “president” Mahmoud Abbas is estimated at $100 million. Add onto that millions of dollars for a large number of PA and Fatah senior officials and you get the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we get the idea. An invented people with an invented national identity have an entire UN funded welfare agency committed to the continuation of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas (as was his predecessor, Arafat) is the foreign supported oligarch of Palestine. His job is to sell his people down the river for money.
Click to expand...


Hamas doesn't give two shits about the Palestinians either.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the "Palestinians"?
> 
> The most successful welfare fraud in history.
> 
> 
> Where Did All the Billions of Dollars Given to the Palestinian Authority Go
> 
> Can you please explain to me why 20 years after Oslo and billions in dollars in foreign aid, the Palestinian Authority (PA) still has not built modern hospitals?  Or rather, why do the donor countries pour money down the PA drain without expecting even some face-saving results?”
> 
> Good question. Short answer: Swiss bank accounts. In other words, a huge amount of the money has been stolen. There is nothing more distasteful than rulers of a people–especially a poor people–who complain about their subjects’ suffering at the same time that they profit from it. Of course, when some foreign observer sees Palestinians in poor conditions they blame Israel, thus furthering the cause of the same leaders who, -by their intransigent policies, ensure that the situation continues.
> 
> The personal wealth of PA “president” Mahmoud Abbas is estimated at $100 million. Add onto that millions of dollars for a large number of PA and Fatah senior officials and you get the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we get the idea. An invented people with an invented national identity have an entire UN funded welfare agency committed to the continuation of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas (as was his predecessor, Arafat) is the foreign supported oligarch of Palestine. His job is to sell his people down the river for money.
Click to expand...

Your litany of excuses for the fraud that is the "Palestinian" Arabs was expected. The bottom line is that the history of the welfare fraud that defines the "Palestinians" defines the very core of those invented people with an invented identity.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the "Palestinians"?
> 
> The most successful welfare fraud in history.
> 
> 
> Where Did All the Billions of Dollars Given to the Palestinian Authority Go
> 
> Can you please explain to me why 20 years after Oslo and billions in dollars in foreign aid, the Palestinian Authority (PA) still has not built modern hospitals?  Or rather, why do the donor countries pour money down the PA drain without expecting even some face-saving results?”
> 
> Good question. Short answer: Swiss bank accounts. In other words, a huge amount of the money has been stolen. There is nothing more distasteful than rulers of a people–especially a poor people–who complain about their subjects’ suffering at the same time that they profit from it. Of course, when some foreign observer sees Palestinians in poor conditions they blame Israel, thus furthering the cause of the same leaders who, -by their intransigent policies, ensure that the situation continues.
> 
> The personal wealth of PA “president” Mahmoud Abbas is estimated at $100 million. Add onto that millions of dollars for a large number of PA and Fatah senior officials and you get the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we get the idea. An invented people with an invented national identity have an entire UN funded welfare agency committed to the continuation of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas (as was his predecessor, Arafat) is the foreign supported oligarch of Palestine. His job is to sell his people down the river for money.
Click to expand...






 Correct supported by the arab league, because that is who elected both of them to rule Palestine. Just as they elected Egyptian and Syrian arab muslims to be the leaders in 1948.


----------



## Friends

theliq said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
Click to expand...


When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."

I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.

 
This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:

11/18/2003 

A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”

The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...

Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother


----------



## aris2chat

Friends said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
Click to expand...


Girls come after the animals in importance to far too many families


----------



## Mindful

Who are they not?

Palestine is The Biggest Scam Find Out Why Here Israel Video Network


----------



## Challenger

Friends said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
Click to expand...


WND? You call that a reasonable effort to inform yourself; now I see why "progressives" call you "ignorant"


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Art__Allm

Friends said:


> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.



About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians, and these Christians were overrepresented in the liberation movements of Palestinians.

The struggle of Palestinians for their rights against the occupants of their homeland has nothing to do with religion, this is just a natural desire of people that were wronged.

BTW, I cannot understand the so called "Christians" who support the suppression of their fellow Christians in Palestine.

Orthodox Jews are spitting on Christians in Israel, but some imbeciles, who call themselves "Christians", are still supporting Zionism.

Here is what Zionists did with the birthplace of Jesus Christ:

http://travelsofadam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bethlehem-wall13.jpg


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Who are they not?
> 
> Palestine is The Biggest Scam Find Out Why Here Israel Video Network


One thing about the internet.

Anybody can go on and make an ass of himself.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are they not?
> 
> Palestine is The Biggest Scam Find Out Why Here Israel Video Network
> 
> 
> 
> One thing about the internet.
> 
> Anybody can go on and make an ass of himself.
Click to expand...


Feel free. Continue what you've started.


----------



## Art__Allm

Friends said:


> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother



There are different Palestinians, some of them are Christians, others are Muslims.

Orthodox Jews are very similar to Orthodox Muslims, they also blame everything on women, and Jews say in their prayers that they are thankful to God that they were not born as a woman.

Orthodox Jews support polygamy, children marriage, and even the stoning of women.
Sex with a small girl is OK, a small Jewish girl can be sold to a rich Jewish man, according to Jewish religious laws.

What to 911 - the fake video was already debunked.

On the other hand, there were "dancing Israelis", who installed their video cameras on a roof in the vicinity of the WTC, before the planes crashed into the buildings.

But these guys got away with that.

Why?

The answer is obvious, USA is controlled by Zionists.

---
*
"According to the police report, one of the passengers told the officers they had been on the West Side Highway in Manhattan "during the incident" — referring to the World Trade Center attack. The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari.

When the men were transferred to jail, the case was transferred out of the FBI's Criminal Division, and into the bureau's Foreign Counterintelligence Section, which is responsible for espionage cases, ABCNEWS has learned.

One reason for the shift, sources told ABCNEWS, was that the FBI believed Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.

After the five men were arrested, the FBI got a warrant and searched Urban Moving's Weehawken, N.J., offices.

The FBI searched Urban Moving's offices for several hours, removing boxes of documents and a dozen computer hard drives. The FBI also questioned Urban Moving's owner. His attorney insists that his client answered all of the FBI's questions. But when FBI agents tried to interview him again a few days later, he was gone".*
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies - ABC News


----------



## Challenger

Friends said:


> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.



Easy; I side with the oppressed against the oppressor every time. In the 1930s I'd have been siding with the Jewish people of Germany and eastern Europe against the Nazis, there's no real difference.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians, and these Christians were overrepresented in the liberation movements of Palestinians.
> 
> The struggle of Palestinians for their rights against the occupants of their homeland has nothing to do with religion, this is just a natural desire of people that were wronged.
> 
> BTW, I cannot understand the so called "Christians" who support the suppression of their fellow Christians in Palestine.
> 
> Orthodox Jews are spitting on Christians in Israel, but some imbeciles, who call themselves "Christians", are still supporting Zionism.
> 
> Here is what Zionists did with the birthplace of Jesus Christ:
> 
> http://travelsofadam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bethlehem-wall13.jpg
Click to expand...






 Who gave them this homeland then, as the Ottomans and LoN certainly didn't. And history proves that the arab muslims lost Palestine in 1099 never to regain sovereignty ever again.


 No that is what the Palestinians did by their endless violence and terrorism.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are they not?
> 
> Palestine is The Biggest Scam Find Out Why Here Israel Video Network
> 
> 
> 
> One thing about the internet.
> 
> Anybody can go on and make an ass of himself.
Click to expand...





 Yes and you prove this on a regular basis


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are different Palestinians, some of them are Christians, others are Muslims.
> 
> Orthodox Jews are very similar to Orthodox Muslims, they also blame everything on women, and Jews say in their prayers that they are thankful to God that they were not born as a woman.
> 
> Orthodox Jews support polygamy, children marriage, and even the stoning of women.
> Sex with a small girl is OK, a small Jewish girl can be sold to a rich Jewish man, according to Jewish religious laws.
> 
> What to 911 - the fake video was already debunked.
> 
> On the other hand, there were "dancing Israelis", who installed their video cameras on a roof in the vicinity of the WTC, before the planes crashed into the buildings.
> 
> But these guys got away with that.
> 
> Why?
> 
> The answer is obvious, USA is controlled by Zionists.
> 
> ---
> *
> "According to the police report, one of the passengers told the officers they had been on the West Side Highway in Manhattan "during the incident" — referring to the World Trade Center attack. The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari.
> 
> When the men were transferred to jail, the case was transferred out of the FBI's Criminal Division, and into the bureau's Foreign Counterintelligence Section, which is responsible for espionage cases, ABCNEWS has learned.
> 
> One reason for the shift, sources told ABCNEWS, was that the FBI believed Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.
> 
> After the five men were arrested, the FBI got a warrant and searched Urban Moving's Weehawken, N.J., offices.
> 
> The FBI searched Urban Moving's offices for several hours, removing boxes of documents and a dozen computer hard drives. The FBI also questioned Urban Moving's owner. His attorney insists that his client answered all of the FBI's questions. But when FBI agents tried to interview him again a few days later, he was gone".*
> Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies - ABC News
Click to expand...






 You are way out on your "facts"  as the arab muslims have been proven to be the mass murders. The roof was the roof of a van and the report was made by a Palestinian immigrant who read the Jewish script on the side of the van. There were more Christian films and videos made that day as they had access to rooftops and were closer to the action. I have already debunked the many conspiracy theories by using science and the laws of nature.


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Who gave them this homeland then...



What are you talking about?
They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.

The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.
> 
> The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.
Click to expand...


Their ancestors were Arab invaders, both from the 7th century and also much more recent times.


----------



## Mindful

Such a hard life

Ripped tide


*Gazan bodybuilders get swole on beach*
*With only rudimentary equipment, Palestinians get ripped as they partake in sport inspired by Swedish fitness trend.*

http://Gazan bodybuilders get swole on beach The Times of Israel


----------



## Challenger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.
> 
> The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their ancestors were Arab invaders, both from the 7th century and also much more recent times.
Click to expand...


Nope. The Arabs who originally settled in Palestine after the conquest were the nobility/officer class who occupied the estates of the Byzantine nobles who refused to convert and left the country. These Arab nobles became the new landed gentry of the region and discouraged further Arab immigration; most Arabs following the conquest were diverted to settle in Syria and Mesopotamia (modern Iraq, Syria and Jordan). Read some academic history for your information, not Zionist Hasbara rubbish like Peters 'From Time Immemorial". Try this book for example;
The Great Arab Conquests How The Spread Of Islam Changed The World We Live In Amazon.co.uk Hugh Kennedy 9780753823897 Books
The native people, however, were not displaced as they worked the land and provided tax revenue.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.
> 
> The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.
Click to expand...






Yes they were and are Jews that have lived there for 4,500 years. The arab muslims did not live there until late into the 7C.

Another islamonazi blood libel as the khazars never existed until the 20C when they were invented by an author for his novel. The tests done on the European Jews show that in the majority of cases they have the same DNA as the Jews from before the Roman invasion of Israel.

 And lastly it has nothing to do with their God and all to do with MAN who granted the land to the Jews for their national home under International law of 1923/1924.


----------



## Phoenall

Challenger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.
> 
> The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their ancestors were Arab invaders, both from the 7th century and also much more recent times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. The Arabs who originally settled in Palestine after the conquest were the nobility/officer class who occupied the estates of the Byzantine nobles who refused to convert and left the country. These Arab nobles became the new landed gentry of the region and discouraged further Arab immigration; most Arabs following the conquest were diverted to settle in Syria and Mesopotamia (modern Iraq, Syria and Jordan). Read some academic history for your information, not Zionist Hasbara rubbish like Peters 'From Time Immemorial". Try this book for example;
> The Great Arab Conquests How The Spread Of Islam Changed The World We Live In Amazon.co.uk Hugh Kennedy 9780753823897 Books
> The native people, however, were not displaced as they worked the land and provided tax revenue.
Click to expand...






 Which was not until the late 7C early 8C only to be kicked out time and time again until 1099 when they were finally evicted for good.

 Tried your link and it was for a commercial site selling books, not to substantiate your claims. Isnt this against the rules for this board.


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians, and these Christians were overrepresented in the liberation movements of Palestinians.
> 
> The struggle of Palestinians for their rights against the occupants of their homeland has nothing to do with religion, this is just a natural desire of people that were wronged.
> 
> BTW, I cannot understand the so called "Christians" who support the suppression of their fellow Christians in Palestine.
> 
> Orthodox Jews are spitting on Christians in Israel, but some imbeciles, who call themselves "Christians", are still supporting Zionism.
> 
> Here is what Zionists did with the birthplace of Jesus Christ:
> 
> http://travelsofadam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bethlehem-wall13.jpg
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then, as the Ottomans and LoN certainly didn't. And history proves that the arab muslims lost Palestine in 1099 never to regain sovereignty ever again.
> 
> 
> No that is what the Palestinians did by their endless violence and terrorism.
Click to expand...

Come On Pheo,you know better than the answer you gave,...I know you act like this for attention,many Jewish Guys are suceptable sic to this behaviour,it all stems from the Jewish Machtriarical influence of their Mothers.......excuse the poor spelling and grammar today..steve


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.
> 
> The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they were and are Jews that have lived there for 4,500 years. The arab muslims did not live there until late into the 7C.
> 
> Another islamonazi blood libel as the khazars never existed until the 20C when they were invented by an author for his novel. The tests done on the European Jews show that in the majority of cases they have the same DNA as the Jews from before the Roman invasion of Israel.
> 
> And lastly it has nothing to do with their God and all to do with MAN who granted the land to the Jews for their national home under International law of 1923/1924.
Click to expand...

This post above is just NOT TRUE.in any way,not a good look for you Pheo


----------



## theliq

Friends said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
Click to expand...

Idiot


----------



## theliq

theliq said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idiot
Click to expand...

Palestine has Millions of supporters Worldwide......What ever makes you think Jews are entitled to what they have.....they were never the original inhabitants of the Holy Land,they originally were a mixture of Arabs and Jews....Originating in Babylon.

You need a history lesson


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


>


TROUBLE IS,IT IS THE JEWS/ZIONIST THAT ARE DOING THIS........BUT TO THE PALESTINIANS...................H.I.M.Theliq


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TROUBLE IS,IT IS THE JEWS/ZIONIST THAT ARE DOING THIS........BUT TO THE PALESTINIANS...................H.I.M.Theliq
Click to expand...


Trouble is.......you.

Yawn.


----------



## Hancock

The homeless

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians, and these Christians were overrepresented in the liberation movements of Palestinians.
> 
> The struggle of Palestinians for their rights against the occupants of their homeland has nothing to do with religion, this is just a natural desire of people that were wronged.
> 
> BTW, I cannot understand the so called "Christians" who support the suppression of their fellow Christians in Palestine.
> 
> Orthodox Jews are spitting on Christians in Israel, but some imbeciles, who call themselves "Christians", are still supporting Zionism.
> 
> Here is what Zionists did with the birthplace of Jesus Christ:
> 
> http://travelsofadam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bethlehem-wall13.jpg
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then, as the Ottomans and LoN certainly didn't. And history proves that the arab muslims lost Palestine in 1099 never to regain sovereignty ever again.
> 
> 
> No that is what the Palestinians did by their endless violence and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come On Pheo,you know better than the answer you gave,...I know you act like this for attention,many Jewish Guys are suceptable sic to this behaviour,it all stems from the Jewish Machtriarical influence of their Mothers.......excuse the poor spelling and grammar today..steve
Click to expand...






 Are all islamonazi Aussies so stupid or do you work hard at it when not going to the mosque.

 How many more times you are more of a Jew than I am, and it is you craving attention all the time


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gave them this homeland then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> They are the native Semitic population of the region, they live there since the beginning of time. Their ancestors were Hebrews and Phoenicians.
> 
> The question is, why some Europeans, who are descendants of Slavs and Khazars, believe that their god has given this land to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they were and are Jews that have lived there for 4,500 years. The arab muslims did not live there until late into the 7C.
> 
> Another islamonazi blood libel as the khazars never existed until the 20C when they were invented by an author for his novel. The tests done on the European Jews show that in the majority of cases they have the same DNA as the Jews from before the Roman invasion of Israel.
> 
> And lastly it has nothing to do with their God and all to do with MAN who granted the land to the Jews for their national home under International law of 1923/1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This post above is just NOT TRUE.in any way,not a good look for you Pheo
Click to expand...





 You wish, but the evidence shows that it is. No mention of the Khazars in any history books until a work of fiction was written in the 20C.
 Geneticists have shown that the eastern European Jews have the same DNA as the Jews who never left Palestine and the bodies of Jews from before the roman invasion. They also show that the Palestinians have very little in common with the Jews and are mostly mongrels from Syria, Saudi, Iran and Turkey.

 Try reading the mandate of Palestine which spells it out


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idiot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has Millions of supporters Worldwide......What ever makes you think Jews are entitled to what they have.....they were never the original inhabitants of the Holy Land,they originally were a mixture of Arabs and Jews....Originating in Babylon.
> 
> You need a history lesson
Click to expand...





 You do as the arabs were not around prior to the 7C they were a backwards illiterate nomadic group that wandered around a lot


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TROUBLE IS,IT IS THE JEWS/ZIONIST THAT ARE DOING THIS........BUT TO THE PALESTINIANS...................H.I.M.Theliq
Click to expand...






 How about a link then from an unbiased and non partisan source, or will you run a mile again ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


>


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
Click to expand...






 Just more of your islamonazi propaganda to demonise the Jews and incite racism, violence and religious intolerance


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Yes they were and are Jews that have lived there for 4,500 years. The arab muslims did not live there until late into the 7C.



Do you really not see the difference between a religious group, a linguistic group and a racial gorup?

Jews and Muslims are religious groups.

Arabs are a linguistic group.

Palestinians are an ethnic group.

An ethnic group can easily change the religion and the language.

The Arabic language existed before the Monotheism.

Many people, who spoke the Arabic language, became Christians, Jews, Muslims.

Palestinians existed before the monotheism, some Palestinians became Jews, then they converted to Christianity and many converted later to Islam.

Today Palestinians speak an Arabic dialect, but they spoke other Semitic dialects in ancient time

Sorry, but it seems that you do not have the basic knowledge and compare apples to oranges



Phoenall said:


> Another islamonazi blood libel as the khazars never existed until the 20C when they were invented...



I do not have the time to discuss on this level with crazy Zionists.

Of course Khazars existed, even the "kosher" Wikipedia has an article about Khazaria, all sane people agree that there was Khazaria, and that Judaism was the dominant religion in this huge Empire.

There are some disagreement about the scope of conversion, some Zionists say that only the ruling elite converted to Judaism, and that the Khazars disappeared. But there are more and more proves (genetics, linguistics, archaeology, demography etc) that after the invasion of Mongols the Khazars moved to the West and laid the foundation of the Ashkenazi communities that were later ruled by German Jewish nobility.



Phoenall said:


> The tests done on the European Jews show that in the majority of cases they have the same DNA as the Jews from before the Roman invasion of Israel.



As already many times explained in this forum, conversion to Judaism does not change the DNA of the converts, and no, the latest genetic evidence debunks the idea about Ashkenazi being the descendants of Hebrews.



Phoenall said:


> And lastly it has nothing to do with their God and all to do with MAN who granted the land to the Jews for their national home under International law of 1923/1924.



What are you talking about?
The Balfour declaration?
It was a deal between the Rothschilds and the corrupt English elite.

The Brits were ready to end WWI, after Germany proposed them a peace treatment.

But Zionists told the Brits that they will involve the USA if the Brits conquer Palestine for them.

That is why WWI was so devastating, why Germany was dismembered after WWI, and why there was WWII. WWII was just the continuation of WWI.


A decent Jewish intellectual Benjamin Friedman wrote an essay about this event:

-----
*"Not an enemy soldier had crossed the border into Germany.  And yet, here was Germany offering England peace terms.  They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis.  That means: “Let's call the war off, and let everything be as it was before the war started.”  

  Well, England, in the summer of 1916 was considering that. Seriously!  They had no choice.  It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering them, or going on with the war and being totally defeated.

  While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and -- I am going to be brief because this is a long story, but I have all the documents to prove any statement that I make  if anyone here is curious, or doesn't believe what I'm saying is at all possible -- the Zionists in London went to the British war cabinet and they said: “Look here.  You can yet win this war.  You don't have to give up.  You don't have to accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by Germany.  You can win this war if the United States will come in as your ally.”

...*
_*In other words, they made this deal: * *“We will get the United States into this war as your ally. The price you must pay us  is Palestine after you have won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.”*_

_*   Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever.  ** It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain -- that never had any connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine -- should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the United States into the war.*_
*....
The Balfour Declaration was merely Great Britain's promise to pay the Zionists what they had agreed upon as a consideration for getting the United States into the war.  So this great Balfour Declaration, that you hear so much about, is just as phony as a three dollar bill.  And I don't think I could make it more emphatic than that.

Now, that is where all the trouble started.  The United States went in the war.  The United States crushed Germany.  We went in there, and it's history. You know what happened.  Now, when the war was ended, and the Germans went to Paris, to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, there were 117 Jews there, as a delegation representing the Jews, headed by Bernard Baruch.  I was there: I ought to know. 
Now what happened?  
*
_*  The Jews at that peace conference, when they were cutting up Germany and parceling out Europe to all these nations that claimed a right to a certain part of European territory, the Jews said, “How about Palestine for us?”  And they produced, for the first time to the knowledge of the Germans, this Balfour Declaration.  So the Germans, for the first time realized, “Oh, that was the game! That's why the United States came into the war.”  And the Germans for the first time realized that they were defeated, they suffered this terrific reparation that was slapped onto them, because the Zionists wanted Palestine and they were determined to get it at any cost".*_

(*Freedman's 1961 speech at the Willard Hotel).*
-----

Benjamin Freedman - Wikisource, the free online library

And you call this deal "international law"?

This deal led to the death of millions and miloins, it was the cause of WWII and it is the cause of why the world is in such a mess today.

*The conquest of Palestine was planned by crazy Zionists even before WWI.*

----
*"In 1851, correspondence between Lord Stanley, whose father became British Prime Minister the following year, and Benjamin Disraeli, who became Chancellor of the Exchequer alongside him, records Disraeli's proto-Zionist views: "He then unfolded a plan of restoring the nation to Palestine—said the country was admirably suited for them—the financiers all over Europe might help—the Porteis weak—the Turks/holders of property could be bought out—this, he said, was the object of his life...." Coningsby was merely a feelermy views were not fully developed at that time—since then all I have written has been for one purpose. The man who should restore the Hebrew race to their country would be the Messiah—the real saviour of prophecy!" He did not add formally that he aspired to play this part, but it was evidently implied. He thought very highly of the capabilities of the country, and hinted that his chief object in acquiring power here would be to promote the return".[20][21] 26 years later, Disraeli wrote in his article entitled "The Jewish Question is the Oriental Quest" (1877) that within fifty years, a nation of one million Jews would reside in Palestine under the guidance of the British".*
--------
History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was no Hitler and no National-Socialism in 1877, but there were crazy British Christian Zionists, like Disraeli, who believed in the existence of a "Jewish race", and these crazy Brits with the help of Rothschilds planned the conquest of Palestine (the Brits were the useful idiots to do the dirty job for the Zionists) already in 1877, and they prevented the Brits from signing a peace agreement with Germany in 1916, they involved USA in WWI, and that was the cause of WWII and that may be the cause for WWIII which will annihilate the life on our planet.

But crazy Zionists, be they Christians or Jews, do not mind an Armaggedon, because they believe in prophecies and think that these prophecies must be fulfilled.

This way these crazy prophecies become *self*-*fulfilling prophecies.

*


----------



## Art__Allm

theliq said:


> Palestine has Millions of supporters Worldwide......What ever makes you think Jews are entitled to what they have.....they were never the original inhabitants of the Holy Land,they originally were a mixture of Arabs and Jews....Originating in Babylon.
> 
> You need a history lesson



The word Hebrew is derived from the word Habiru.

Quote from Wikipedia:
_
*"Habiru* or *Apiru* (Egyptian: ˁpr.w) was the name given by various Sumerian, Egyptian, Akkadian,Hittite, Mitanni, and Ugaritic sources (dated, roughly, between 1800 BC and 1100 BC) to a group of people living as nomadic invaders in areas of the Fertile Crescent from Northeastern Mesopotamiaand Iran to the borders of Egypt in Canaan.[1] Depending on the source and epoch, these Habiru are variously described as nomadic or semi-nomadic, rebels, *outlaws, raiders,* mercenaries, and bowmen, servants, slaves, migrant laborers, etc. The Habiru are often identified as the earlyHebrews.[2][3]

As more texts were uncovered throughout the Near East, it became clear that *the Habiru were mentioned in contexts ranging from unemployed agricultural workers and vagrants, to mounted mercenary bowmen. *The context differed depending upon where the references were found."_

Habiru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As wee see, the Hebrews stem from invaders, outlaws and vagrants that adopted in Egypt monotheism, and then spread Monotheism to Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they were and are Jews that have lived there for 4,500 years. The arab muslims did not live there until late into the 7C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really not see the difference between a religious group, a linguistic group and a racial gorup?
> 
> Jews and Muslims are religious groups.
> 
> Arabs are a linguistic group.
> 
> Palestinians are an ethnic group.
> 
> An ethnic group can easily change the religion and the language.
> 
> The Arabic language existed before the Monotheism.
> 
> Many people, who spoke the Arabic language, became Christians, Jews, Muslims.
> 
> Palestinians existed before the monotheism, some Palestinians became Jews, then they converted to Christianity and many converted later to Islam.
> 
> Today Palestinians speak an Arabic dialect, but they spoke other Semitic dialects in ancient time
> 
> Sorry, but it seems that you do not have the basic knowledge and compare apples to oranges
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another islamonazi blood libel as the khazars never existed until the 20C when they were invented...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not have the time to discuss on this level with crazy Zionists.
> 
> Of course Khazars existed, even the "kosher" Wikipedia has an article about Khazaria, all sane people agree that there was Khazaria, and that Judaism was the dominant religion in this huge Empire.
> 
> There are some disagreement about the scope of conversion, some Zionists say that only the ruling elite converted to Judaism, and that the Khazars disappeared. But there are more and more proves (genetics, linguistics, archaeology, demography etc) that after the invasion of Mongols the Khazars moved to the West and laid the foundation of the Ashkenazi communities that were later ruled by German Jewish nobility.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The tests done on the European Jews show that in the majority of cases they have the same DNA as the Jews from before the Roman invasion of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As already many times explained in this forum, conversion to Judaism does not change the DNA of the converts, and no, the latest genetic evidence debunks the idea about Ashkenazi being the descendants of Hebrews.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And lastly it has nothing to do with their God and all to do with MAN who granted the land to the Jews for their national home under International law of 1923/1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> The Balfour declaration?
> It was a deal between the Rothschilds and the corrupt English elite.
> 
> The Brits were ready to end WWI, after Germany proposed them a peace treatment.
> 
> But Zionists told the Brits that they will involve the USA if the Brits conquer Palestine for them.
> 
> That is why WWI was so devastating, why Germany was dismembered after WWI, and why there was WWII. WWII was just the continuation of WWI.
> 
> 
> A decent Jewish intellectual Benjamin Friedman wrote an essay about this event:
> 
> -----
> *"Not an enemy soldier had crossed the border into Germany.  And yet, here was Germany offering England peace terms.  They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis.  That means: “Let's call the war off, and let everything be as it was before the war started.”
> 
> Well, England, in the summer of 1916 was considering that. Seriously!  They had no choice.  It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering them, or going on with the war and being totally defeated.
> 
> While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and -- I am going to be brief because this is a long story, but I have all the documents to prove any statement that I make  if anyone here is curious, or doesn't believe what I'm saying is at all possible -- the Zionists in London went to the British war cabinet and they said: “Look here.  You can yet win this war.  You don't have to give up.  You don't have to accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by Germany.  You can win this war if the United States will come in as your ally.”
> 
> ...*
> _*In other words, they made this deal: * *“We will get the United States into this war as your ally. The price you must pay us  is Palestine after you have won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.”*_
> 
> _*   Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever.  ** It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain -- that never had any connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine -- should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the United States into the war.*_
> *....
> The Balfour Declaration was merely Great Britain's promise to pay the Zionists what they had agreed upon as a consideration for getting the United States into the war.  So this great Balfour Declaration, that you hear so much about, is just as phony as a three dollar bill.  And I don't think I could make it more emphatic than that.
> 
> Now, that is where all the trouble started.  The United States went in the war.  The United States crushed Germany.  We went in there, and it's history. You know what happened.  Now, when the war was ended, and the Germans went to Paris, to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, there were 117 Jews there, as a delegation representing the Jews, headed by Bernard Baruch.  I was there: I ought to know.
> Now what happened?
> *
> _*  The Jews at that peace conference, when they were cutting up Germany and parceling out Europe to all these nations that claimed a right to a certain part of European territory, the Jews said, “How about Palestine for us?”  And they produced, for the first time to the knowledge of the Germans, this Balfour Declaration.  So the Germans, for the first time realized, “Oh, that was the game! That's why the United States came into the war.”  And the Germans for the first time realized that they were defeated, they suffered this terrific reparation that was slapped onto them, because the Zionists wanted Palestine and they were determined to get it at any cost".*_
> 
> (*Freedman's 1961 speech at the Willard Hotel).*
> -----
> 
> Benjamin Freedman - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> And you call this deal "international law"?
> 
> This deal led to the death of millions and miloins, it was the cause of WWII and it is the cause of why the world is in such a mess today.
> 
> *The conquest of Palestine was planned by crazy Zionists even before WWI.*
> 
> ----
> *"In 1851, correspondence between Lord Stanley, whose father became British Prime Minister the following year, and Benjamin Disraeli, who became Chancellor of the Exchequer alongside him, records Disraeli's proto-Zionist views: "He then unfolded a plan of restoring the nation to Palestine—said the country was admirably suited for them—the financiers all over Europe might help—the Porteis weak—the Turks/holders of property could be bought out—this, he said, was the object of his life...." Coningsby was merely a feelermy views were not fully developed at that time—since then all I have written has been for one purpose. The man who should restore the Hebrew race to their country would be the Messiah—the real saviour of prophecy!" He did not add formally that he aspired to play this part, but it was evidently implied. He thought very highly of the capabilities of the country, and hinted that his chief object in acquiring power here would be to promote the return".[20][21] 26 years later, Disraeli wrote in his article entitled "The Jewish Question is the Oriental Quest" (1877) that within fifty years, a nation of one million Jews would reside in Palestine under the guidance of the British".*
> --------
> History of Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> There was no Hitler and no National-Socialism in 1877, but there were crazy British Christian Zionists, like Disraeli, who believed in the existence of a "Jewish race", and these crazy Brits with the help of Rothschilds planned the conquest of Palestine (the Brits were the useful idiots to do the dirty job for the Zionists) already in 1877, and they prevented the Brits from signing a peace agreement with Germany in 1916, they involved USA in WWI, and that was the cause of WWII and that may be the cause for WWIII which will annihilate the life on our planet.
> 
> But crazy Zionists, be they Christians or Jews, do not mind an Armaggedon, because they believe in prophecies and think that these prophecies must be fulfilled.
> 
> This way these crazy prophecies become *self*-*fulfilling prophecies.
> *
Click to expand...







 Just islamonazi propaganda, blood libels and LIES with no grounding in reality

 No arab muslims prior to the late 7C which is when their world conquest started, before then they were just illiterate nomadic goat herders and thieves.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has Millions of supporters Worldwide......What ever makes you think Jews are entitled to what they have.....they were never the original inhabitants of the Holy Land,they originally were a mixture of Arabs and Jews....Originating in Babylon.
> 
> You need a history lesson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The word Hebrew is derived from the word Habiru.
> 
> Quote from Wikipedia:
> _
> *"Habiru* or *Apiru* (Egyptian: ˁpr.w) was the name given by various Sumerian, Egyptian, Akkadian,Hittite, Mitanni, and Ugaritic sources (dated, roughly, between 1800 BC and 1100 BC) to a group of people living as nomadic invaders in areas of the Fertile Crescent from Northeastern Mesopotamiaand Iran to the borders of Egypt in Canaan.[1] Depending on the source and epoch, these Habiru are variously described as nomadic or semi-nomadic, rebels, *outlaws, raiders,* mercenaries, and bowmen, servants, slaves, migrant laborers, etc. The Habiru are often identified as the earlyHebrews.[2][3]
> 
> As more texts were uncovered throughout the Near East, it became clear that *the Habiru were mentioned in contexts ranging from unemployed agricultural workers and vagrants, to mounted mercenary bowmen. *The context differed depending upon where the references were found."_
> 
> Habiru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> As wee see, the Hebrews stem from invaders, outlaws and vagrants that adopted in Egypt monotheism, and then spread Monotheism to Palestine.
Click to expand...







 And your wiki source is an islamonazi propagandist.


----------



## Mindful

Where does the money go?

What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has Millions of supporters Worldwide......What ever makes you think Jews are entitled to what they have.....they were never the original inhabitants of the Holy Land,they originally were a mixture of Arabs and Jews....Originating in Babylon.
> 
> You need a history lesson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The word Hebrew is derived from the word Habiru.
> 
> Quote from Wikipedia:
> _
> *"Habiru* or *Apiru* (Egyptian: ˁpr.w) was the name given by various Sumerian, Egyptian, Akkadian,Hittite, Mitanni, and Ugaritic sources (dated, roughly, between 1800 BC and 1100 BC) to a group of people living as nomadic invaders in areas of the Fertile Crescent from Northeastern Mesopotamiaand Iran to the borders of Egypt in Canaan.[1] Depending on the source and epoch, these Habiru are variously described as nomadic or semi-nomadic, rebels, *outlaws, raiders,* mercenaries, and bowmen, servants, slaves, migrant laborers, etc. The Habiru are often identified as the earlyHebrews.[2][3]
> 
> As more texts were uncovered throughout the Near East, it became clear that *the Habiru were mentioned in contexts ranging from unemployed agricultural workers and vagrants, to mounted mercenary bowmen. *The context differed depending upon where the references were found."_
> 
> Habiru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> As wee see, the Hebrews stem from invaders, outlaws and vagrants that adopted in Egypt monotheism, and then spread Monotheism to Palestine.
Click to expand...


"Habiru" can mean a variety of different things.


----------



## Mindful

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/08/2...its-sad-we-havent-utterly-destroyed-them-yet/


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> No arab muslims prior to the late 7C which is when their world conquest started, before then they were just illiterate nomadic goat herders and thieves.



You are ignorant in any history, even in the Jewish history.

Prior to the rise of Islam many Arabs were Christians or Jews.

Quote:

_"The Himyarite kings appear to have abandoned polytheism and converted to Judaism around the year 380, some 15–20 years after the conversion of the Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum to Christianity (360-5), though no changes occurred in its script or calendar or language (unlike Aksum).[4] This date marks the end of an era in which numerous inscriptions record the names and deeds of Kings, and dedicate buildings to local (e.g. Wagal and Simyada) and major (e.g. Almaqah) Gods; from around the 380s, temples were abandoned, and dedications to the old gods ceased, instead being given to Rahmanan, "the Lord of Heaven" or "Lord of Heaven and Earth".[5] The political context for this conversion was the position of Arabia between the competing empires of Christian Byzantium and Zoroastrian Persia. Neutrality, and good trade relations with both empires, was essential to the prosperity of the Arabian trade routes. Scholars speculate that the choice of Judaism may have been an attempt at maintaining neutrality,[6] or as a device to establish a symbolic difference from the Christian kingdom of Aksum.

...

One of the first Jewish kings, Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad (r. 390-420), reportedly converted following a military expedition into northern Arabia in an effort to eliminate Byzantine influence. The Byzantine emperors had long eyed the Arabian Peninsula as a region in which to extend their influence, thereby to control the lucrative spice trade and the route to India. Without actually staging a conquest of the region, the Byzantines hoped to establish a protectorate over the pagan Arabs by converting them to Christianity. The cross would then bear commercial advantages as it did in Ethiopia. The Byzantines had made some progress in northern Arabia but had met with little success in Ḥimyar.[6]

...

The sages' appeal is said to have persuaded Abu-Kariba; he called off his attack and also embraced Judaism along with his entire army. At his insistence, the two Jewish savants accompanied the Ḥimyarite king back to his capital, where he demanded that all his people convert to Judaism. Initially, there was great resistance, but after an ordeal had justified the king's demand and confirmed the truth of the Jewish faith, many Himyarites embraced Judaism. Such conversions, by ordeal, were not uncommon in Arabia.
_
* Some historians argue that the conversions occurred, not due to political motivations, but because Judaism, by its philosophical, simplistic and austere nature, was attractive to the nature of the Semitic people.[7]*

Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
______


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> And your wiki source is an islamonazi propagandist.



Wow!

The "kosher" Wikipedia, censored by Jewish censors, is "islamonazi" propaganda.

You have made my day?


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> And your wiki source is an islamonazi propagandist.



What are Zionist doing with the huge amount of the money, paid by American taxpayers?


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No arab muslims prior to the late 7C which is when their world conquest started, before then they were just illiterate nomadic goat herders and thieves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are ignorant in any history, even in the Jewish history.
> 
> Prior to the rise of Islam many Arabs were Christians or Jews.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> _"The Himyarite kings appear to have abandoned polytheism and converted to Judaism around the year 380, some 15–20 years after the conversion of the Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum to Christianity (360-5), though no changes occurred in its script or calendar or language (unlike Aksum).[4] This date marks the end of an era in which numerous inscriptions record the names and deeds of Kings, and dedicate buildings to local (e.g. Wagal and Simyada) and major (e.g. Almaqah) Gods; from around the 380s, temples were abandoned, and dedications to the old gods ceased, instead being given to Rahmanan, "the Lord of Heaven" or "Lord of Heaven and Earth".[5] The political context for this conversion was the position of Arabia between the competing empires of Christian Byzantium and Zoroastrian Persia. Neutrality, and good trade relations with both empires, was essential to the prosperity of the Arabian trade routes. Scholars speculate that the choice of Judaism may have been an attempt at maintaining neutrality,[6] or as a device to establish a symbolic difference from the Christian kingdom of Aksum.
> 
> ...
> 
> One of the first Jewish kings, Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad (r. 390-420), reportedly converted following a military expedition into northern Arabia in an effort to eliminate Byzantine influence. The Byzantine emperors had long eyed the Arabian Peninsula as a region in which to extend their influence, thereby to control the lucrative spice trade and the route to India. Without actually staging a conquest of the region, the Byzantines hoped to establish a protectorate over the pagan Arabs by converting them to Christianity. The cross would then bear commercial advantages as it did in Ethiopia. The Byzantines had made some progress in northern Arabia but had met with little success in Ḥimyar.[6]
> 
> ...
> 
> The sages' appeal is said to have persuaded Abu-Kariba; he called off his attack and also embraced Judaism along with his entire army. At his insistence, the two Jewish savants accompanied the Ḥimyarite king back to his capital, where he demanded that all his people convert to Judaism. Initially, there was great resistance, but after an ordeal had justified the king's demand and confirmed the truth of the Jewish faith, many Himyarites embraced Judaism. Such conversions, by ordeal, were not uncommon in Arabia.
> _
> * Some historians argue that the conversions occurred, not due to political motivations, but because Judaism, by its philosophical, simplistic and austere nature, was attractive to the nature of the Semitic people.[7]*
> 
> Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ______
Click to expand...







 Prior to islam arabs were idol worshipping pagans who had gods and goddesses for everything. In fact allah was a minor moon god who looked after the crescent moon, which is why the arabs have a crescent moon on their flags and on top of their mosques. Christianity as we know it did not come about until the end of the Roman Empire and the Roman leaders used it to control the people.

 Your understanding about history is lacking and comes mainly from islamonazi propaganda pieces written on wiki, and not from accredited history books


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your wiki source is an islamonazi propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> The "kosher" Wikipedia, censored by Jewish censors, is "islamonazi" propaganda.
> 
> You have made my day?
Click to expand...





 Yes as the majority of entries have been altered by islamonazi cucer terrorists. It is so easy to see who alters wiki articles, and when Monte admitted that he was doing it he realised he had given the game away.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your wiki source is an islamonazi propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are Zionist doing with the huge amount of the money, paid by American taxpayers?
Click to expand...







Buying American goods to keep American workers in employment of course. Didn't you know that trade agreements between nations have clauses banning the unfair practises of subsidising the industries that are the remit of the trade agreements.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?


Protecting Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting Israel.
Click to expand...





You do know that 28% of nothing is still nothing and that is how much the P.A. collect in taxes.

 And haven't they recently disbanded their security force because they are trying to force Israel into giving in.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting Israel.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that 28% of nothing is still nothing and that is how much the P.A. collect in taxes.
> 
> And haven't they recently disbanded their security force because they are trying to force Israel into giving in.
Click to expand...

I think the PLO made a recommendation to that effect about a month ago or so but I haven't heard that it actually happened.


----------



## Mindful

*Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*

*Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*

*The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*

*His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*

*The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*

9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting Israel.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that 28% of nothing is still nothing and that is how much the P.A. collect in taxes.
> 
> And haven't they recently disbanded their security force because they are trying to force Israel into giving in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the PLO made a recommendation to that effect about a month ago or so but I haven't heard that it actually happened.
Click to expand...






 More like 3 month's ago and partially implemented it as they could not afford the costs of the security forces and the terrorists pensions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting Israel.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that 28% of nothing is still nothing and that is how much the P.A. collect in taxes.
> 
> And haven't they recently disbanded their security force because they are trying to force Israel into giving in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the PLO made a recommendation to that effect about a month ago or so but I haven't heard that it actually happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like 3 month's ago and partially implemented it as they could not afford the costs of the security forces and the terrorists pensions.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting Israel.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that 28% of nothing is still nothing and that is how much the P.A. collect in taxes.
> 
> And haven't they recently disbanded their security force because they are trying to force Israel into giving in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the PLO made a recommendation to that effect about a month ago or so but I haven't heard that it actually happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like 3 month's ago and partially implemented it as they could not afford the costs of the security forces and the terrorists pensions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Like you're interested?

Typical troll tactic.


----------



## Penelope

Mindful said:


> *Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*
> 
> *Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*
> 
> *The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*
> 
> *His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*
> 
> *The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*
> 
> 9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'



Yes right, that is why so many fled to Lebanon and Jordan or were pushed by Zionist into Gaza. That is also why Britain called it "mandatory Palestine" . Who were those people?


----------



## Mindful

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*
> 
> *Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*
> 
> *The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*
> 
> *His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*
> 
> *The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*
> 
> 9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes right, that is why so many fled to Lebanon and Jordan or were pushed by Zionist into Gaza. That is also why Britain called it "mandatory Palestine" . Who were those people?
Click to expand...



Palestinian Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the money go?
> 
> What Are Palestinians Doing With U.S. Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting Israel.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that 28% of nothing is still nothing and that is how much the P.A. collect in taxes.
> 
> And haven't they recently disbanded their security force because they are trying to force Israel into giving in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the PLO made a recommendation to that effect about a month ago or so but I haven't heard that it actually happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like 3 month's ago and partially implemented it as they could not afford the costs of the security forces and the terrorists pensions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...




 Like these

 Seems it was last year and not in the last month or so


Abbas Threatens 'Palestinian People Will Explode'


President Abbas threatens to halt PA security cooperation with Israel


----------



## Penelope

Mindful said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*
> 
> *Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*
> 
> *The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*
> 
> *His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*
> 
> *The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*
> 
> 9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes right, that is why so many fled to Lebanon and Jordan or were pushed by Zionist into Gaza. That is also why Britain called it "mandatory Palestine" . Who were those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Jews.
Click to expand...


So the Zionist are killing Jews, got ya. I think the big quest. who are the Zionist and all the ? jews moving to Israel. The Pres. of Israel is secular, but he is anti reform Jews and pro orthodox jews because even he says we need the jewish laws to be a jewish country. Its crazy, since most Israelis are secular or agnostic, and yet they want to call it a jewish state. Oh if only they knew like he does that Jew is not a race.


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*
> 
> *Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*
> 
> *The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*
> 
> *His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*
> 
> *The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*
> 
> 9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes right, that is why so many fled to Lebanon and Jordan or were pushed by Zionist into Gaza. That is also why Britain called it "mandatory Palestine" . Who were those people?
Click to expand...






Britain did not call it anything as that was the LoN that called it mandatory Palestine.

 Mostly illegal immigrants and wandering vagabonds


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*
> 
> *Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*
> 
> *The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*
> 
> *His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*
> 
> *The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*
> 
> 9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes right, that is why so many fled to Lebanon and Jordan or were pushed by Zionist into Gaza. That is also why Britain called it "mandatory Palestine" . Who were those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Zionist are killing Jews, got ya. I think the big quest. who are the Zionist and all the ? jews moving to Israel. The Pres. of Israel is secular, but he is anti reform Jews and pro orthodox jews because even he says we need the jewish laws to be a jewish country. Its crazy, since most Israelis are secular or agnostic, and yet they want to call it a jewish state. Oh if only they knew like he does that Jew is not a race.
Click to expand...






 You forget that the U.N.  called it the Jewish state and that entered into international law. I wonder how many other International laws you ignore because they are in Israel's favour ?


----------



## Mindful

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Where ARE all those Palestinians, the proclaimed one million of them who lived in Israel before they were ‘displaced’? Nowhere.*
> 
> *Nowhere, because they never existed. And where are all the mosques for those “over 1 million Palestinians” who are suppose to have lived there already in the early 1800’s like “Palestinians” claim? If they had been 1 million at the turn of the Century, or even in 1920 after they began immigrating to fight the British, with their rapid population growth Palestine would consist of over 40 million people today and not 4 million. That alone proves the jihad lies. Their population is small because they are new invaders and occupiers who arrived late with an aim to commit jihad. They never lost land that was never theirs to begin with!*
> 
> *The British army permitted merely a few Ottomans to remain due to religious observations, the rest was Jewish. In reality according to eyewitness reports the barren British Mandate had a very small number of people living on it. Félix Bonfils (1831-1885) was a French photographer and writer who was active in the Middle East. Four years after his arrival he reported 15,000 prints of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Greece, and 9,000 stereoscopic-views. He traveled to the region several times and we hear of no mass population of Palestinians, which contradicts everything the Palestinians lie about to the world.*
> 
> *His pictures did not manage to capture any photographs of a single so-called ‘Palestinian’ who are suppose to have lost land to Jewish occupation, if we believe Arab propaganda. All he found was a few bedouines passing through and some remnants of the Ottoman Turks. Guess why? Because the “Palestinian” people as we know them today never existed.*
> 
> *The original philistines which the Arab jihadi’s named themselves after were a small group of lawless bandits who occupied the region near Gaza by force and died out before the birth of Christ. Islam was created over 600 years after the death of Christ and is the world’s youngest religion.*
> 
> 9,000 Photographs from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes right, that is why so many fled to Lebanon and Jordan or were pushed by Zionist into Gaza. That is also why Britain called it "mandatory Palestine" . Who were those people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Zionist are killing Jews, got ya. I think the big quest. who are the Zionist and all the ? jews moving to Israel. The Pres. of Israel is secular, but he is anti reform Jews and pro orthodox jews because even he says we need the jewish laws to be a jewish country. Its crazy, since most Israelis are secular or agnostic, and yet they want to call it a jewish state. Oh if only they knew like he does that Jew is not a race.
Click to expand...


There is no discussion to be had with you.  Morbid psycho obsession with Jews.


----------



## Mindful

The other side of Gaza:

Gaza Strip’s middle class enjoys spin classes, fine dining, private beaches


----------



## Hollie

Mindful said:


> The other side of Gaza:
> 
> Gaza Strip’s middle class enjoys spin classes, fine dining, private beaches


Those sweet kuffar welfare dollars make life very good for the select few who are a part of, or connected to those privileged Islamic terrorists (or the bagmen), who control the UNRWA welfare spigot.


----------



## Mindful

If you're still stupid enough to think that Israeli 'settlements' are the biggest problems in the world, then watch this because you're a freaking moron.

SEE IT: Toddler filmed beheading toy bear with ISIS backdrop


----------



## Friends

Challenger said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WND? You call that a reasonable effort to inform yourself; now I see why "progressives" call you "ignorant"
Click to expand...


What is wrong with using WND as a source? Can you prove that it lies? There are plenty of links on the internet that document grisly stories of honor killing among the Palestinians.


----------



## Friends

Art__Allm said:


> Orthodox Jews are very similar to Orthodox Muslims, they also blame everything on women, and Jews say in their prayers that they are thankful to God that they were not born as a woman.
> 
> Orthodox Jews support polygamy, children marriage, and even the stoning of women.


 
When have you ever read about an Orthodox Jew killing his sister because their brother raped her? When have you ever read about Orthodox Jews stoning anyone? 

You haven't. Stop claiming moral equivalency where it does not exist.


----------



## Friends

Art__Allm said:


> About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians.


 
As of 2015, Christians comprise approximately 1-2.5% of the Arab population of the West Bank and less than 1% in the Gaza Strip.[3][4] According to official British Mandatory estimates, Palestine's Christian population in 1922 comprised 9.5% of the total Mandatory Palestine population (10.8% of the Palestinian Arab population), and 7.9% in 1946.
Palestinian Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Friends

Art__Allm said:


> Christians were overrepresented in the liberation movements of Palestinians.


 
*Hamas Charter (1988)*

*The Charter of Allah: The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)*

“In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed, it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-doers. 
Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas


----------



## aris2chat

Friends said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WND? You call that a reasonable effort to inform yourself; now I see why "progressives" call you "ignorant"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is wrong with using WND as a source? Can you prove that it lies? There are plenty of links on the internet that document grisly stories of honor killing among the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Nothing wrong with WND except that it is not rabidly pro arab/muslim radicals
The owner and chief editor is Lebanese.


----------



## Art__Allm

Friends said:


> When have you ever read about an Orthodox Jew killing his sister because their brother raped her? When have you ever read about Orthodox Jews stoning anyone?



You can read about it in the "kosher" Wikipedia

Capital and corporal punishment in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“Immodestly” Dressed Woman Stoned In Beit Shemesh - FailedMessiah.com

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ses-stoned-by-ultraorthodox-jews-1631370.html

Stoned for having short hair


----------



## Challenger

aris2chat said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see why anyone who is not a Muslim sides with the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the Israelis Banal behaviour towards the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so.......you comment is noted,and your poor excuse of an ingnorant post likewise...you know nothing,not the minute nor the hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When progressives are not calling those who disagree with them "racists" they are saying that we are "Ignorant."
> 
> I do not pretend to know everything. I make a reasonable effort to inform myself. The Palestinians supported our enemies during the Second World War, the Cold War, and the Gulf War. This is how they celebrated 9/11.
> 
> 
> This is how Palestinians treat their sisters:
> 
> 11/18/2003
> 
> A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime’s innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of “honor killings.”
> 
> The mother will be sentenced in two weeks, but a harsh penalty is not expected...
> 
> Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman.
> Read more at Daughter raped by brothers murdered by mother
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WND? You call that a reasonable effort to inform yourself; now I see why "progressives" call you "ignorant"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is wrong with using WND as a source? Can you prove that it lies? There are plenty of links on the internet that document grisly stories of honor killing among the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with WND except that it is not rabidly pro arab/muslim radicals
> The owner and chief editor is Lebanese.
Click to expand...


Lebanese-Syrian conservative evangelical christian, in fact. So no, not "rabidly pro arab/muslim radicals" in fact, antithetical would be a fair description.


----------



## theliq

Friends said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of 2015, Christians comprise approximately 1-2.5% of the Arab population of the West Bank and less than 1% in the Gaza Strip.[3][4] According to official British Mandatory estimates, Palestine's Christian population in 1922 comprised 9.5% of the total Mandatory Palestine population (10.8% of the Palestinian Arab population), and 7.9% in 1946.
> Palestinian Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Pick these figures OUT OF YOUR ASS,Friends because they are complete SHIT


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> When have you ever read about an Orthodox Jew killing his sister because their brother raped her? When have you ever read about Orthodox Jews stoning anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can read about it in the "kosher" Wikipedia
> 
> Capital and corporal punishment in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> “Immodestly” Dressed Woman Stoned In Beit Shemesh - FailedMessiah.com
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ses-stoned-by-ultraorthodox-jews-1631370.html
> 
> Stoned for having short hair
Click to expand...






 Not kosher at all. it is edited by islamonazi's as Monte admitted to doing on this board. But your examples are drops in the ocean and not common everyday instances.

 By the way the articles were written by muslims as part of the BLOOD LIBELS against Israel and the Jews, don't you research your links before posting them ?

 Now can you find an unbiased and non partisan source of a Jew killing his sister because she was raped ?


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Friends said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of 2015, Christians comprise approximately 1-2.5% of the Arab population of the West Bank and less than 1% in the Gaza Strip.[3][4] According to official British Mandatory estimates, Palestine's Christian population in 1922 comprised 9.5% of the total Mandatory Palestine population (10.8% of the Palestinian Arab population), and 7.9% in 1946.
> Palestinian Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pick these figures OUT OF YOUR ASS,Friends because they are complete SHIT
Click to expand...






 No they are real and easily found, whereas yours are only on a few select sites like Nazis r us


----------



## Mindful

Meanwhile, over the past year, the PA’s financial woes have worsened.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is leading the construction of a luxurious presidential palace near Ramallah at a cost of $13 million, despite the PA being mired in a debilitating financial crisis.
“The goal of this project is to establish the Presidential Guest Palace in Surda, Ramallah within an area of 4,700m2, along with a building for the Presidential Administration and Guards with an area of 4,000m2, the construction process includes also preparing the surrounding area and two helipads, the project will be constructed over a land area of 27,000m2,” says a statement on the website of PECDAR, the Palestinian Economic Council for Development and Reconstruction.

A computer-generated simulation image of the 27-dunam (6.67-acre) presidential compound looks luxurious indeed.

Abbas building $13m. presidential palace near Ramallah


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> Now can you find an unbiased and non partisan source of a Jew killing his sister because she was raped ?



Can you you disprove the quoted facts?


*"In Yemen, a Jewish father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy..."*

Honour killing outside the world of Islam


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now can you find an unbiased and non partisan source of a Jew killing his sister because she was raped ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you you disprove the quoted facts?
> 
> 
> *"In Yemen, a Jewish father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy..."*
> 
> Honour killing outside the world of Islam
Click to expand...


Isolated incident.  Nowhere near as common as the Arab world.  Also, this happened in Yemen, so he was probably influenced by his sick society.


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Isolated incident.  Nowhere near as common as the Arab world.



Well, some Arabs are Jews, some Arabs are Muslims, and some Arabs are Christians. The Yemeni Arabs, who are Jews, are similar to Arabs, who are Muslims.

Children marriage, polygamy, honour killing - these are ancient Semitic traditions, that existed before Monotheism.

The Jewish religious laws says, that if a Jew raped a non-Jewish child, then this child must be killed, because she caused trouble to a Jew:

_* "If a Jew has coitus with a Gentile woman, whether she be a child of three or an adult, whether married or unmarried, and even if he is a minor aged only nine years and one day - because he had willful coitus with her, she must be killed, as is the case with a beast, because through her a Jew got into trouble'  The Jew, however, must be flogged..."*_

http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-History-Religion-Israel-Shahak/dp/074530818X&tag=ff0d01-20


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isolated incident.  Nowhere near as common as the Arab world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, some Arabs are Jews, some Arabs are Muslims, and some Arabs are Christians. The Yemeni Arabs, who are Jews, are similar to Arabs, who are Muslims.
> 
> Children marriage, polygamy, honour killing - these are ancient Semitic traditions, that existed before Monotheism.
> 
> The Jewish religious laws says, that if a Jew raped a non-Jewish child, then this child must be killed, because she caused trouble to a Jew:
> 
> _* "If a Jew has coitus with a Gentile woman, whether she be a child of three or an adult, whether married or unmarried, and even if he is a minor aged only nine years and one day - because he had willful coitus with her, she must be killed, as is the case with a beast, because through her a Jew got into trouble'  The Jew, however, must be flogged..."*_
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-History-Religion-Israel-Shahak/dp/074530818X&tag=ff0d01-20
Click to expand...


Whether that Talmudic quote from a hate-site is accurate or not (and Gentiles at that time meant something else anyway), we are talking about Muslim atrocities TODAY, in the real world.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now can you find an unbiased and non partisan source of a Jew killing his sister because she was raped ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you you disprove the quoted facts?
> 
> 
> *"In Yemen, a Jewish father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy..."*
> 
> Honour killing outside the world of Islam
Click to expand...





 Going on the source and the fact that no actual details were given how about you prove that it is true, otherwise it is just the usual islamonazi blood libel, lies and propaganda.


 You fail again by not providing a source that gives details


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isolated incident.  Nowhere near as common as the Arab world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, some Arabs are Jews, some Arabs are Muslims, and some Arabs are Christians. The Yemeni Arabs, who are Jews, are similar to Arabs, who are Muslims.
> 
> Children marriage, polygamy, honour killing - these are ancient Semitic traditions, that existed before Monotheism.
> 
> The Jewish religious laws says, that if a Jew raped a non-Jewish child, then this child must be killed, because she caused trouble to a Jew:
> 
> _* "If a Jew has coitus with a Gentile woman, whether she be a child of three or an adult, whether married or unmarried, and even if he is a minor aged only nine years and one day - because he had willful coitus with her, she must be killed, as is the case with a beast, because through her a Jew got into trouble'  The Jew, however, must be flogged..."*_
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-History-Religion-Israel-Shahak/dp/074530818X&tag=ff0d01-20
Click to expand...





 Now find the full chapter and read it fully with the help of a Rabbi trained in the Talmud where this is taken from. Then you will see you have taken this out of context and not in the manner it was written.

 Another fail because you do not research your links


----------



## aris2chat

Of the sites and references I could find about the jewish father, all seem to come fro the same source and no details.
There were how ever a number of yemeni fathers over the last decade that killed their daughter, with no mention of being jewish.  A muslim father killed his 10 yr old daughter some months ago in a very brutal manner.

I know even the jews in yemen hold to very conservative rules almost the same as muslims.  Some or all the story might be true but with no names, dates or details it could just as well be hearsay or libel.

"If" there is truth to the story, is not the common thing among jews, certainly not as common as among muslims.  The father in yemen was likely heavily influenced by the muslims among whom he lived with more than by his faith it this case.

 Could not find "proof" of the story.  It would have to be before 2009 as that is when the last jews left.

The sites with the one sentence exactly the same word for word has no more details.  I won't say it could not happen but I tend to doubt the validity without more information.  It would be far more cultural of yemen than of being jewish.

What does such a story have to do with the palestinians and who they are?


----------



## Art__Allm

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Whether that Talmudic quote from a hate-site ....



Amazon is a "hate-site", because Israel Shahak exposed the hate of Talmud?

Wow! Amazing logic!





ForeverYoung436 said:


> ...are talking about Muslim atrocities TODAY, in the real world.



There are different Muslim and different Jewish authorities.

Ovadia Yosef was call by Israeli leaders "the biggest authority in Jewish religious law", and this hater made a statement, calling non-Jews donkeys, that were supposedly crated to serve the master race, the Jews:


_*In an October 2010 sermon, Yosef stated that "The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews". He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: "Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created."[72]

In the same article in The Jerusalem Post, according to the journalist who interviewed him, Yosef compared Gentiles to donkeys whose life has the sole purpose to serve the master: "In Israel, death has no dominion over them...*_

Ovadia Yosef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Statistikhengst

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Talmud was written thousands of years ago.  The references to non-Jews in it, refer to pagans or idol-worshippers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Israel Shahak was an Israeli intellectual, who spoke Hebrew and could read not only the Talmud, but also the interpretation of this book by modern Israeli religious scholars.
> 
> And Ovadia Yosef, who got the largest funeral in the history of Israel, basically confirmed everything that Israel Shahak was telling us in his books. And Ovadia Yosef was called by many Israeli leading politicians "the greatest Jewish religious teacher".
> As we see, Ovadia Yosef was and is a recognized and honored religious authority in Israel.
> 
> If you want to have a discussion about Israel Shahak or Ovadia Yosef, then do it.
> 
> If you can refute the arguments of Israel Shahak, then I will change my mind.
> 
> It is not enough just to call Israel Shahak or your opponentsi n this forum "bad guys" or other silly names, that is not the purprse of any discussion, that is just childish behaviour.
> 
> In a discussion forum you have to attack the message, not the messenger.
> 
> Do not attack Israel Shahak, attack is arguments! Prove that he was wrong!
> 
> Can you get my point?
Click to expand...

Which Talmud do you mean? There are 2.

And then there is Mishnah and Gemarrah...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether that Talmudic quote from a hate-site ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is a "hate-site", because Israel Shahak exposed the hate of Talmud?
> 
> Wow! Amazing logic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...are talking about Muslim atrocities TODAY, in the real world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are different Muslim and different Jewish authorities.
> 
> Ovadia Yosef was call by Israeli leaders "the biggest authority in Jewish religious law", and this hater made a statement, calling non-Jews donkeys, that were supposedly crated to serve the master race, the Jews:
> 
> 
> _*In an October 2010 sermon, Yosef stated that "The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews". He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: "Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created."[72]
> 
> In the same article in The Jerusalem Post, according to the journalist who interviewed him, Yosef compared Gentiles to donkeys whose life has the sole purpose to serve the master: "In Israel, death has no dominion over them...*_
> 
> Ovadia Yosef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...







 No the source is an Islamic hate site  Amazon is just the carrier

 How many quotes do you want from islaminazi scum then along the same lines, will 20,000 do


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether that Talmudic quote from a hate-site ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is a "hate-site", because Israel Shahak exposed the hate of Talmud?
> 
> Wow! Amazing logic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...are talking about Muslim atrocities TODAY, in the real world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are different Muslim and different Jewish authorities.
> 
> Ovadia Yosef was call by Israeli leaders "the biggest authority in Jewish religious law", and this hater made a statement, calling non-Jews donkeys, that were supposedly crated to serve the master race, the Jews:
> 
> 
> _*In an October 2010 sermon, Yosef stated that "The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews". He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: "Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created."[72]
> 
> In the same article in The Jerusalem Post, according to the journalist who interviewed him, Yosef compared Gentiles to donkeys whose life has the sole purpose to serve the master: "In Israel, death has no dominion over them...*_
> 
> Ovadia Yosef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...







 No the source is an Islamic hate site  Amazon is just the carrier

 How many quotes do you want from islamonazi scum then along the same lines, will 20,000 do


----------



## Mindful

There is an old and rare book called _Palestina_ _ex monumentis veteribus illustrata_, written by Hadriani Relandi (a mapmaker and scholar from Utrecht) and published in 1714. It documents Relandi’s trip to Palestine in 1695-96. On his travels he surveyed around 2,500 places that were mentioned in the Tanakh and/or Mishnah, and he carried out a census of the people who resided in such places. He made some very interesting discoveries. For a start, he discovered that not a single settlement in Palestine had a name that was of Arabic origin. Instead the names derived from Hebrew, Roman and Greek languages.

Another interesting discovery was the conspicuous absence of a sizeable Muslim population. Instead, he found that most of the inhabitants of Palestine were Jews, along with some Christians and a few Bedouins. Nazareth was home to less than a thousand Christians, while Jerusalem held 5,000 people, mostly Jews. Gaza was home to around 250 Jews and about the same number of Christians.  The only exception was Nablus where around 120 Muslims lived, along with a handful of Samaritans, whose ancestors belonged to the northern tribes of Israel.

Intrigued by the findings in Relandi’s book, I looked at other first-hand sources, such as travelogues, governmental reports and censuses. I wasn’t sure I would find anything. But there is a surprising quantity of data and anecdotal evidence. And all the evidence suggests that the majority of non-Jewish (i.e. Arab Muslim and Christian) immigration to Palestine began in the mid or late 1800s.

Arab immigration to historic Palestine: a survey


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> No the source is an Islamic hate site  Amazon is just the carrier



That was a bizarre statement.

I quoted Wikipedia, and Wikipedia quoted Haaretz:

_In a sermon given on Saturday on laws concerning what non-Jews are permitted to do on Shabbat, Yosef said: *"Goyim [non-Jews] were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel."*_
read more: ADL slams Shas spiritual leader for saying non-Jews 'were born to serve Jews'





BTW, why do Muslim-Haters constantly complain about hate?


----------



## Art__Allm

Mindful said:


> He made some very interesting discoveries. For a start, he discovered that not a single settlement in Palestine had a name that was of Arabic origin. Instead the names derived from Hebrew, Roman and Greek languages.



Well, that debunks the stupid Zionist propaganda about the supposed invasion of Saudi Arabs to Palestine. No, the native population of Palestine remained the same, the Palestinians just adopted another religion (Islam), and therefore another language, because the Koran was written in the Arabic language.



Mindful said:


> Another interesting discovery was the conspicuous absence of a sizeable Muslim population. Instead, he found that most of the inhabitants of Palestine were Jews, along with some Christians and a few Bedouins.
> 
> ...
> 
> And all the evidence suggests that the majority of non-Jewish (i.e. Arab Muslim and Christian) immigration to Palestine began in the mid or late 1800s.



That is old and idiotic Zionist propaganda, that was already debunked many times.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In  1130 there were zero Jews in Jerusalem.
In   1489  there were 200 Jewish families in Jerusalem
In 1553 there lived about 2 000 Jews and 2 000 Christians in Jerusalem, and 12 000 Muslims.

In 1832 there lived about 4 000 Jews, 3 500 Christians and and 13 000 Muslims in Jerusalem.

As we see, there was a bigger increase of the Jewish population of Jerusalem after 1800, the Christian and Muslim population grew not as rapid, as Jewish population.

Jews were kicked out of Andalusia, and the Muslims rulers invited them to Palestine, and Andalusian Jews settled in Jerusalem.

And here are the statistics for Palestine:

Demographic history of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1800 the Jewish population of Palestine was about 7 000, the Christian about 22 000, and the Muslim population about 246 000.

In 1890 there lived 43 000 Jews in Palestine, 57 000 Christians and 432 000 Muslims.

As we see, the Jewish population of Palestine grew faster in the 19th century, than Muslim or Christians population.


----------



## Mindful

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> He made some very interesting discoveries. For a start, he discovered that not a single settlement in Palestine had a name that was of Arabic origin. Instead the names derived from Hebrew, Roman and Greek languages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that debunks the stupid Zionist propaganda about the supposed invasion of Saudi Arabs to Palestine. No, the native population of Palestine remained the same, the Palestinians just adopted another religion (Islam), and therefore another language, because the Koran was written in the Arabic language.
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another interesting discovery was the conspicuous absence of a sizeable Muslim population. Instead, he found that most of the inhabitants of Palestine were Jews, along with some Christians and a few Bedouins.
> 
> ...
> 
> And all the evidence suggests that the majority of non-Jewish (i.e. Arab Muslim and Christian) immigration to Palestine began in the mid or late 1800s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is old and idiotic Zionist propaganda, that was already debunked many times.
> 
> Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> In  1130 there were zero Jews in Jerusalem.
> In   1489  there were 200 Jewish families in Jerusalem
> In 1553 there lived about 2 000 Jews and 2 000 Christians in Jerusalem, and 12 000 Muslims.
> 
> In 1832 there lived about 4 000 Jews, 3 500 Christians and and 13 000 Muslims in Jerusalem.
> 
> As we see, there was a bigger increase of the Jewish population of Jerusalem after 1800, the Christian and Muslim population grew not as rapid, as Jewish population.
> 
> Jews were kicked out of Andalusia, and the Muslims rulers invited them to Palestine, and Andalusian Jews settled in Jerusalem.
> 
> And here are the statistics for Palestine:
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> In 1800 the Jewish population of Palestine was about 7 000, the Christian about 22 000, and the Muslim population about 246 000.
> 
> In 1890 there lived 43 000 Jews in Palestine, 57 000 Christians and 432 000 Muslims.
> 
> As we see, the Jewish population of Palestine grew faster in the 19th century, than Muslim or Christians population.
Click to expand...


Oh yawn. Here's another of the usual suspects, with the same interminable terminology.


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether that Talmudic quote from a hate-site ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is a "hate-site", because Israel Shahak exposed the hate of Talmud?
> 
> Wow! Amazing logic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...are talking about Muslim atrocities TODAY, in the real world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are different Muslim and different Jewish authorities.
> 
> Ovadia Yosef was call by Israeli leaders "the biggest authority in Jewish religious law", and this hater made a statement, calling non-Jews donkeys, that were supposedly crated to serve the master race, the Jews:
> 
> 
> _*In an October 2010 sermon, Yosef stated that "The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews". He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: "Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created."[72]
> 
> In the same article in The Jerusalem Post, according to the journalist who interviewed him, Yosef compared Gentiles to donkeys whose life has the sole purpose to serve the master: "In Israel, death has no dominion over them...*_
> 
> Ovadia Yosef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


So what, did he speak for all the Jews or even the Israelis??
He immediately drew rigid criticism from within Israel.
And what power did he actually have? Military? 
Quoting a leftist newspaper on a Religious party...

And most important- how is that connected to the identity of those Arabs calling themselves balestinians?


----------



## Art__Allm

rylah said:


> So what, did he speak for all the Jews or even the Israelis??





Ovadia Yosef was called by Israeli leaders "the biggest authority in Jewish religious law", and he got the biggest funeral in the history of Israel, and that speaks volumes.

This hater made a statement, calling non-Jews donkeys, that were supposedly crated to serve the master race, the Jews, but he was not punished for his hate speech.

Can you imagine any prominent American or European, who would say "Jews were created to serve the non-Jews, like a donkey has to serve his master"?

Can you imagine any political leader calling such a person "our great teacher?




rylah said:


> He immediately drew rigid criticism from within Israel.



He was criticised because he made this statement openly, the non-Jews could read it.

And no, this statement was no news in main media outside of Israel, if you do not read the Israeli press, you do not know about this.

The Zionist controlled western media suppressed any mentioning about this hate speech.

If a prominent non-Jew made such a hateful statement about Jews, there would be headlines in all Zionist controlled papers and other media outlets, and the talking heads on TV would whine about it 7x24, and there would be no end of it.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No the source is an Islamic hate site  Amazon is just the carrier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a bizarre statement.
> 
> I quoted Wikipedia, and Wikipedia quoted Haaretz:
> 
> _In a sermon given on Saturday on laws concerning what non-Jews are permitted to do on Shabbat, Yosef said: *"Goyim [non-Jews] were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel."*_
> read more: ADL slams Shas spiritual leader for saying non-Jews 'were born to serve Jews'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, why do Muslim-Haters constantly complain about hate?
Click to expand...





 Again wiki is the carrier, and haaretz is not bothered on what is reported as long as they get paid. They put the disclaimer were it can be seen.
 Like all islamonazi stooges you don't or cant understand that the author is the source, not were it links to.

 Because muslims engender hatred by their hate for everyone and everything not Islamic.


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what, did he speak for all the Jews or even the Israelis??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ovadia Yosef was called by Israeli leaders "the biggest authority in Jewish religious law", and he got the biggest funeral in the history of Israel, and that speaks volumes.
> 
> This hater made a statement, calling non-Jews donkeys, that were supposedly crated to serve the master race, the Jews, but he was not punished for his hate speech.
> 
> Can you imagine any prominent American or European, who would say "Jews were created to serve the non-Jews, like a donkey has to serve his master"?
> 
> Can you imagine any political leader calling such a person "our great teacher?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> He immediately drew rigid criticism from within Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was criticised because he made this statement openly, the non-Jews could read it.
> 
> And no, this statement was no news in main media outside of Israel, if you do not read the Israeli press, you do not know about this.
> 
> The Zionist controlled western media suppressed any mentioning about this hate speech.
> 
> If a prominent non-Jew made such a hateful statement about Jews, there would be headlines in all Zionist controlled papers and other media outlets, and the talking heads on TV would whine about it 7x24, and there would be no end of it.
Click to expand...


He could say anything, he was a leader of scandalous religious party representing just a portion of the religious citizens. Barely a voice representing the majority. 

And did you hear death chants later,
calling for 'death of infidels"?
Like in Iran where the religious leader IS the supreme leader and has power over all govt. structures?


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> He made some very interesting discoveries. For a start, he discovered that not a single settlement in Palestine had a name that was of Arabic origin. Instead the names derived from Hebrew, Roman and Greek languages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that debunks the stupid Zionist propaganda about the supposed invasion of Saudi Arabs to Palestine. No, the native population of Palestine remained the same, the Palestinians just adopted another religion (Islam), and therefore another language, because the Koran was written in the Arabic language.
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another interesting discovery was the conspicuous absence of a sizeable Muslim population. Instead, he found that most of the inhabitants of Palestine were Jews, along with some Christians and a few Bedouins.
> 
> ...
> 
> And all the evidence suggests that the majority of non-Jewish (i.e. Arab Muslim and Christian) immigration to Palestine began in the mid or late 1800s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is old and idiotic Zionist propaganda, that was already debunked many times.
> 
> Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> In  1130 there were zero Jews in Jerusalem.
> In   1489  there were 200 Jewish families in Jerusalem
> In 1553 there lived about 2 000 Jews and 2 000 Christians in Jerusalem, and 12 000 Muslims.
> 
> In 1832 there lived about 4 000 Jews, 3 500 Christians and and 13 000 Muslims in Jerusalem.
> 
> As we see, there was a bigger increase of the Jewish population of Jerusalem after 1800, the Christian and Muslim population grew not as rapid, as Jewish population.
> 
> Jews were kicked out of Andalusia, and the Muslims rulers invited them to Palestine, and Andalusian Jews settled in Jerusalem.
> 
> And here are the statistics for Palestine:
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> In 1800 the Jewish population of Palestine was about 7 000, the Christian about 22 000, and the Muslim population about 246 000.
> 
> In 1890 there lived 43 000 Jews in Palestine, 57 000 Christians and 432 000 Muslims.
> 
> As we see, the Jewish population of Palestine grew faster in the 19th century, than Muslim or Christians population.
Click to expand...





 It actually shows that after this time arab muslims flooded into Palestine and displaced the indigenous population. Only a brainwashed idiot would say otherwise.

Look at the source of your wiki article, then at who edited it and you will find islamonazi interference. Maybe even Monte'e handiwork


----------



## Mindful

A leading Palestinian “resistance” figure has confirmed what many suspected all along: Yasser Arafat died of AIDS.

In an interview with Hizballah's Al-Manar TV earlier this month, Ahmad Jibril, founder and leader of the Damascus-based Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, revealed a shocking conversation he recently had with Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and his staff.

Said Jibril: “When [Abbas] came to Damascus with his team, I asked them: 'What happened to the investigation into the death of [Arafat]? Is it conceivable that when [former Lebanese prime minister] Rafiq Hariri was killed, all hell broke loose, but the death of Yasser Arafat, is not investigate?”

Jibril, like many Palestinians, readily accepted the notion that Israel had assassinated Arafat, and wanted the Palestinian Authority to conduct an official investigation concluding as much. The response from Abbas' aides changed in an instant Jibril's view of his deceased mentor.

“They were silent, and then one of them said to me: 'To be honest, the French gave us the medical report, that stated that the cause of [Arafat's] death was AIDS.'”

Arafat eventually died in a Paris hospital after being airlifted out of Ramallah. Many speculated that the Palestinian leader, who was said to have had numerous homosexual relationships, had in fact contracted AIDS.

A clearly angered Jibril said that Abbas and every other member of Arafat's Fatah faction “should be happy that we got rid of the plague, which had been imposed upon them and upon the Palestinian people. The Fatah movement now has an opportunity to renew itself.”

Arafat died of AIDS, confirms Palestinian leader


----------



## Art__Allm

Mindful said:


> A leading Palestinian “resistance” figure has confirmed what many suspected all along: Yasser Arafat died of AIDS.



Everybody knows that the cause of death was polonium, he was poisoned by Zionists.


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> It actually shows that after this time arab muslims flooded into Palestine and displaced the indigenous population.



What time are you talking about?
There were no Jews in Jerusalem in the 12th century, the descendants of Khazars and other converts flooded to Palestine from Europe and other countries in the 15th century and later, after they were kicked out of Andalusia and other countries.

The indigenous Semitic population of Palestine just adopted another language and another religion, that is all.



Phoenall said:


> Look at the source of your wiki article, then at who edited it and you will find islamonazi interference. Maybe even Monte'e handiwork



Why do Muslim-Haters and Zionist Supremacists constantly whine about being hated?


----------



## Mindful

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> A leading Palestinian “resistance” figure has confirmed what many suspected all along: Yasser Arafat died of AIDS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody knows that the cause of death was polonium, he was poisoned by Zionists.
Click to expand...


Who's "everybody"?

You must be a sock puppet.


----------



## Art__Allm

Mindful said:


> Who's "everybody"?



Everybody with a brain, except the hasbara crowd.


----------



## Mindful

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's "everybody"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody with a brain, except the hasbara crowd.
Click to expand...


Yawn.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> A leading Palestinian “resistance” figure has confirmed what many suspected all along: Yasser Arafat died of AIDS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody knows that the cause of death was polonium, he was poisoned by Zionists.
Click to expand...






 Or by the PLO themselves, but the smart money is on aids as the Coroners have stated on oath


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's "everybody"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody with a brain, except the hasbara crowd.
Click to expand...






 So that's all of team Palestine out of the equation then


----------



## Rehmani

B


Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...

But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
Click to expand...





 Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
Click to expand...

Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.


----------



## Mindful

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
Click to expand...


Where did they drag you out from?


----------



## Rehmani

Mindful said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did they drag you out from?
Click to expand...

better use your mind if have or you are not sitting on it.


----------



## Mindful

Rehmani said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did they drag you out from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> better use your mind if have or you are not sitting on it.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't want to waste it on you.


----------



## Rehmani

Mindful said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did they drag you out from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> better use your mind if have or you are not sitting on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't want to waste it on you.
Click to expand...

YOU ARE!


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
Click to expand...





 Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
Click to expand...


He'll fry his brain(?) trying to get round that one.


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He'll fry his brain(?) trying to get round that one.
Click to expand...





 Of course he doesn't understand that mo'mad the mental was a Zionist until his madness made him change


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?







 An activist is not a Palestinian, unless you are saying all terrorists are now Palestinian ?


----------



## Rehmani

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?


Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.
Click to expand...






 So were are these camps full of Jews then as they are the people who have lived there for 3,000 years. Arab muslims can only claim 22 years out of the last 1400 so they are not what you mean are they ?


----------



## Mindful

Palestinians fleeing ISIS, would you believe.

Regarding the Palestinian refugees fleeing Syria, the PA and Hamas have some ‘splaining to do: Both reportedly refused to accept refugees in 2013for a combination of financial and ideological reasons (fears that absorbing refugees would prejudice the “right” of return). If the PA was earnest about resettling Palestinian refugees, it could have, say, earmarked housing in Rawabi years ago. The first Palestinians began moving into the new West Bank city near Ramallah just a few days ago.

Honest Reporting.


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
Click to expand...

I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Suheir Hammad*

**


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
Click to expand...






 First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.

This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
Click to expand...

You are not my Equal and Never will be....You will address me as Sir.


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
Click to expand...


Why do you even attempt to explain facts in reasonable terms to that ridiculous clown?


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even attempt to explain facts in reasonable terms to that ridiculous clown?
Click to expand...

Mindless he can't because there is NO REASONABLE with Zionist Idiots like Him(AND You For That Matter)........he calls Italians  EYETIES ?? Vulgar....he calls Americans YANKS ??? Vulgar....and FRENCH Citizens...FROGS!!!!!!!???? Most Vulgar...as I pointed out MADDER THAN MAD


----------



## Mindful

As clear as mud.


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> As clear as mud.


See,I ramp up the PRESSURE and like all Cow ards you present your Asshole for all the world to see....I'm theliq I kick Assholes Big time,because I can,Mindless see ya around Dip Shit...Hater of Yourself and the Zionist Trash,just who do you interlopers think you R,got it in one.......Nothing,.

You spew shit but when you get it back you cry theliq is being Anti-Semitic.....WRONG,WRONG,WRONG.........I like most Jewish folk,I detest Zionists like you,now what Idiot said "All Jews are Zionists" That's it that Mad Bastard Pheo and You.

Viva Palestine and Viva Israel.......SAY NO TO ZIONISTS/ZIONISM............Soon Forward to Peace


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> B
> But who Zionists are? I will say they are under cover jews. If not then why jews are supporting them. Please see my signature comments as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
Click to expand...

Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> As clear as mud.


Well it would be to you..As I said to you earlier U R AN Idiot


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> As clear as mud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it would be to you..As I said to you earlier U R AN Idiot
Click to expand...


Using this place for venting your frustrations?


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even attempt to explain facts in reasonable terms to that ridiculous clown?
Click to expand...





 Just one of my faults, I see a deprived person and just have to help them understand the reality


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even attempt to explain facts in reasonable terms to that ridiculous clown?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one of my faults, I see a deprived person and just have to help them understand the reality
Click to expand...


He doesn't want to.

He needs to froth and foam.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> As clear as mud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See,I ramp up the PRESSURE and like all Cow ards you present your Asshole for all the world to see....I'm theliq I kick Assholes Big time,because I can,Mindless see ya around Dip Shit...Hater of Yourself and the Zionist Trash,just who do you interlopers think you R,got it in one.......Nothing,.
> 
> You spew shit but when you get it back you cry theliq is being Anti-Semitic.....WRONG,WRONG,WRONG.........I like most Jewish folk,I detest Zionists like you,now what Idiot said "All Jews are Zionists" That's it that Mad Bastard Pheo and You.
> 
> Viva Palestine and Viva Israel.......SAY NO TO ZIONISTS/ZIONISM............Soon Forward to Peace
Click to expand...




 And if I turned up on your doorstep you would be blubbering like the semi literate brainless coward you are.  Go back to slitting the throats of chickens and goats in preparation for the day you will be a real man in the eyes of islam.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards
Click to expand...





 Plenty of gum flapping but no evidence of your islamionazi blood libels and propaganda.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So were are these camps full of Jews then as they are the people who have lived there for 3,000 years. Arab muslims can only claim 22 years out of the last 1400 so they are not what you mean are they ?
Click to expand...

Jew never live in the camp, either they go underground or move around the world and merge in the jew net work. This is the reason 6 million jews missing in the Germany, have no clue so far where they are.


----------



## Rehmani

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists are people that believe the Jews deserve a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland from attack. What you call a Zionist  is actually an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards
Click to expand...

I will say thaliq is right and every action has  a reaction, we should condemn the Israel over their killing for 70 years.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So were are these camps full of Jews then as they are the people who have lived there for 3,000 years. Arab muslims can only claim 22 years out of the last 1400 so they are not what you mean are they ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jew never live in the camp, either they go underground or move around the world and merge in the jew net work. This is the reason 6 million jews missing in the Germany, have no clue so far where they are.
Click to expand...





 They must do as until 1960 they were the only Palestinians in Palestine, the arab muslims said they were Syrians or Egyptian


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist are jews. you should accept it. And this is jewish style, as I describe in my signature comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say thaliq is right and every action has  a reaction, we should condemn the Israel over their killing for 70 years.
Click to expand...





 You mean the killing of terrorists and invaders that is legal under international law. How about the killing by muslims then will you condemn all those. From the 10 million in India to the 50,000 in Jordan, these went on over 70 years and amounted to many millions of innocents.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **






 And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So were are these camps full of Jews then as they are the people who have lived there for 3,000 years. Arab muslims can only claim 22 years out of the last 1400 so they are not what you mean are they ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jew never live in the camp, either they go underground or move around the world and merge in the jew net work. This is the reason 6 million jews missing in the Germany, have no clue so far where they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They must do as until 1960 they were the only Palestinians in Palestine, the arab muslims said they were Syrians or Egyptian
Click to expand...

You are not wrong. There was only one country until jews invaded and their colonial master divide the land in many countries so they can adjust Israel in there.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see I am a Zionist, yet I am not a Jew so how do you like those apples. At the same time the Prophet was a Zionist initially, then became an islamonazi some years later.
> 
> 
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say thaliq is right and every action has  a reaction, we should condemn the Israel over their killing for 70 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the killing of terrorists and invaders that is legal under international law. How about the killing by muslims then will you condemn all those. From the 10 million in India to the 50,000 in Jordan, these went on over 70 years and amounted to many millions of innocents.
Click to expand...

I will say for some reason you don't accept the truth or may be it is your job.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
Click to expand...

The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.

Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.

*Tamer Nafar*

**


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So were are these camps full of Jews then as they are the people who have lived there for 3,000 years. Arab muslims can only claim 22 years out of the last 1400 so they are not what you mean are they ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jew never live in the camp, either they go underground or move around the world and merge in the jew net work. This is the reason 6 million jews missing in the Germany, have no clue so far where they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They must do as until 1960 they were the only Palestinians in Palestine, the arab muslims said they were Syrians or Egyptian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not wrong. There was only one country until jews invaded and their colonial master divide the land in many countries so they can adjust Israel in there.
Click to expand...





 What country was that then ? as my searches show that no country existed at all when it was part of the Ottoman empire. In fact no country existed since the roman invasion in the first century BCE. That was 2000 years ago


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could understand your Zionist hatreds because that Cult are Mad but by telling me you are not Jewish but still a Zionist!!!!!!!!!That makes you MADDER THAN A CUT SNAKE,.............and what the Fcuk is a Christian Zionist ???????? There Pheo is a contradiction in terms.............No Christian could be a Zionist,other than those that are Mad.......Madder than Mad,Sadder than Sad,Dimmer than Dim......heading for the Mental Asylim........The longer you are here the weirder you become.........HIM theliq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say thaliq is right and every action has  a reaction, we should condemn the Israel over their killing for 70 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the killing of terrorists and invaders that is legal under international law. How about the killing by muslims then will you condemn all those. From the 10 million in India to the 50,000 in Jordan, these went on over 70 years and amounted to many millions of innocents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say for some reason you don't accept the truth or may be it is your job.
Click to expand...





 Are you saying that historical records kept by muslims are not true ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
> 
> **
Click to expand...




 No they are arab muslim's that cant be Palestinians because Palestine is not arab. And they owned it for less than 30 years in the last 1400


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## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> As clear as mud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it would be to you..As I said to you earlier U R AN Idiot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using this place for venting your frustrations?
Click to expand...

Never but I just speak as I see and it is almost always the Truth,if I make errors,I always put my hands up.......If I've ever done a Crime,I will always do the Time

But unlike others I am not a Liar  or Wastrel or a Denyer(Denier)


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Pathetic, what was actually taken from him? I guess they left some for all that studio equipment..

He's not even a real artist. Uses the same beat up cliche' forms
with nothing but hate and racism messages.The funniest thing is he actually uses American sounds to express 'balstinian culture'...


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic, what was actually taken from him? I guess they left some for all that studio equipment..
> 
> He's not even a real artist. Uses the same beat up cliche' forms
> with nothing but hate and racism messages.The funniest thing is he actually uses American sounds to express 'balstinian culture'...
Click to expand...

And the Americans "Borrowed" Jamaican Sounds,so the Joke is on U......LOL........


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic, what was actually taken from him? I guess they left some for all that studio equipment..
> 
> He's not even a real artist. Uses the same beat up cliche' forms
> with nothing but hate and racism messages.The funniest thing is he actually uses American sounds to express 'balstinian culture'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the Americans "Borrowed" Jamaican Sounds,so the Joke is on U......LOL........
Click to expand...


U mean African-Americans?
Like McHammer, Run DMC and Snoop Dog...

Sure that's 'native balestinian' culture... sounds very middle-eastern.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic, what was actually taken from him? I guess they left some for all that studio equipment..
> 
> He's not even a real artist. Uses the same beat up cliche' forms
> with nothing but hate and racism messages.The funniest thing is he actually uses American sounds to express 'balstinian culture'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the Americans "Borrowed" Jamaican Sounds,so the Joke is on U......LOL........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U mean African-Americans?
> Like McHammer, Run DMC and Snoop Dog...
> 
> Sure that's 'native balestinian' culture... sounds very middle-eastern.
Click to expand...

No You Mate......your the NATIVE


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> 
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic, what was actually taken from him? I guess they left some for all that studio equipment..
> 
> He's not even a real artist. Uses the same beat up cliche' forms
> with nothing but hate and racism messages.The funniest thing is he actually uses American sounds to express 'balstinian culture'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the Americans "Borrowed" Jamaican Sounds,so the Joke is on U......LOL........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U mean African-Americans?
> Like McHammer, Run DMC and Snoop Dog...
> 
> Sure that's 'native balestinian' culture... sounds very middle-eastern.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No You Mate......your the NATIVE
Click to expand...



Exactly- COHEN.

When I'm asked to introduce my culture I don't play american tunes with English racist slogans against enemies. I have a choice of king David's songs praising G-d in Hebrew, which sound much more 'native' mid-eastern, than this fake 'Pally- Jamaican' piece of blood libel.

Sorry Bob...

Please show use the distinct Palestinian culture those refugees maintain.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nathalie Handal*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what has this to do with this thread, your deflection is noted and ignored
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is: Who are the Palestinians. I am answering that question.
> 
> Speaking of Palestinians, here is another one.
> 
> *Tamer Nafar*
Click to expand...


Not surprising that Pal'istanian Arabs who steal land and money would steal American pop culture. What a shame those dregs couldn't steal a work ethic.


----------



## rylah

What's actually the distinct Palestinian culture those Bedouins from Syria, Arabia and Egypt maintain?

You know except for pictures of girls biting soldiers, songs of martyrdom and such.
Since You can find a variety of Jewish artifacts allover Israel, and those Palestinians claim to have lived there for thousands of years, we should in the same way see distinct Palestinian artifacts as well.

Any ancient Palestinian stories? Tunes? Poetry?
Really interested.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> What's actually the distinct Palestinian culture those Bedouins from Syria, Arabia and Egypt maintain?
> 
> You know except for pictures of girls biting soldiers, songs of martyrdom and such.
> Since You can find a variety of Jewish artifacts allover Israel, and those Palestinians claim to have lived there for thousands of years, we should in the same way see distinct Palestinian artifacts as well.
> 
> Any ancient Palestinian stories? Tunes? Poetry?
> Really interested.


You know, I wouldn't go there, seeing how there is no archeological evidence that the diaspora ever happened.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Not surprising that Pal'istanian Arabs who steal land and money would steal American pop culture. What a shame those dregs couldn't steal a work ethic.


Not as much land than the Israeli's stole.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that Pal'istanian Arabs who steal land and money would steal American pop culture. What a shame those dregs couldn't steal a work ethic.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as much land than the Israeli's stole.
Click to expand...

Typically moronic. 

Israel has returned more land taken in war than its physical land mass. 

Thinking is difficult for you which is why you've made yourself the Village Idiot.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Typically moronic.
> 
> Israel has returned more land taken in war than its physical land mass.
> 
> Thinking is difficult for you which is why you've made yourself the Village Idiot.


What land was that?  Gaza?  It was never Israel's land to give.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typically moronic.
> 
> Israel has returned more land taken in war than its physical land mass.
> 
> Thinking is difficult for you which is why you've made yourself the Village Idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> What land was that?  Gaza?  It was never Israel's land to give.
Click to expand...

_Hey Stupid_. Pay attention. 

This was already addressed. Go find it and report back.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's actually the distinct Palestinian culture those Bedouins from Syria, Arabia and Egypt maintain?
> 
> You know except for pictures of girls biting soldiers, songs of martyrdom and such.
> Since You can find a variety of Jewish artifacts allover Israel, and those Palestinians claim to have lived there for thousands of years, we should in the same way see distinct Palestinian artifacts as well.
> 
> Any ancient Palestinian stories? Tunes? Poetry?
> Really interested.
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I wouldn't go there, seeing how there is no archeological evidence that the diaspora ever happened.
Click to expand...


Your denial is awesome,there're ancient synagogues all over the world.

Again You fail to deal on topic in this simple question.
There's a post like this one where your point would be relevant, though ignorant.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's actually the distinct Palestinian culture those Bedouins from Syria, Arabia and Egypt maintain?
> 
> You know except for pictures of girls biting soldiers, songs of martyrdom and such.
> Since You can find a variety of Jewish artifacts allover Israel, and those Palestinians claim to have lived there for thousands of years, we should in the same way see distinct Palestinian artifacts as well.
> 
> Any ancient Palestinian stories? Tunes? Poetry?
> Really interested.
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I wouldn't go there, seeing how there is no archeological evidence that the diaspora ever happened.
Click to expand...





 And your evidence of this is what exactly, some islamonazi propaganda site ?

 Now what archeological evidence is there of arab muslims inhabiting Palestine for 2000 years. Even America has archeological evidence of the first settlers from 400 years ago, but no sign of arab muslims in Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typically moronic.
> 
> Israel has returned more land taken in war than its physical land mass.
> 
> Thinking is difficult for you which is why you've made yourself the Village Idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> What land was that?  Gaza?  It was never Israel's land to give.
Click to expand...





 Land they occupied under the terms of the Geneva conventions and international law. As for gaza it was granted to the Jews in 1923 not the arab muslims, they got trans Jordan


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that Pal'istanian Arabs who steal land and money would steal American pop culture. What a shame those dregs couldn't steal a work ethic.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as much land than the Israeli's stole.
Click to expand...





 Now is your chance to prove your claim and show what land Israel has stolen ?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Your denial is awesome,there're ancient synagogues all over the world.


Did you go to school in a long bus, or a short bus?  Because that has nothing to do with what I said. 

I said there is no evidence of the Exodus.  In Egypt.  Back then. 

_Que pasa, mutha?_

_*The Exodus: Does archaeology have a say?*
"The whole subject of the Exodus is embarrassing to archaeologists. *The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it.* So we prefer not to talk about it, and hate to be asked about it.

For the account in the Torah is the basis of our people’s creation, it is the basis of our existence and it is the basis of our important Passover festival and the whole Haggada that we recite on the first evening of this festival of freedom. * So that makes archaeologists reluctant to have to tell our brethren and ourselves that there is nothing in Egyptian records to support it.* Nothing on the slavery of the Israelites, nothing on the plagues that persuaded Pharaoh to let them go, nothing on the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea, nothing._​
_Nothing at all. *There are three Pharaohs who said they got rid of the hated foreigners, but nothing to say who the foreigners were*, and no Pharaoh is named as having persecuted foreign slaves or suffered unspeakable plagues."_​
Sorry to burst your bubble boy, but a synagogue in Rome, doesn't mean someone kicked your ass out of Egypt way back when.



rylah said:


> Again You fail to deal on topic in this simple question.
> There's a post like this one where your point would be relevant, though ignorant.


Hey asshole, you questioned someone's "history" and I questioned yours.  That's relevant!


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your denial is awesome,there're ancient synagogues all over the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in a long bus, or a short bus?  Because that has nothing to do with what I said.
> 
> I said there is no evidence of the Exodus.  In Egypt.  Back then.
> 
> _Que pasa, mutha?_
> 
> _*The Exodus: Does archaeology have a say?*
> "The whole subject of the Exodus is embarrassing to archaeologists. *The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it.* So we prefer not to talk about it, and hate to be asked about it.
> 
> For the account in the Torah is the basis of our people’s creation, it is the basis of our existence and it is the basis of our important Passover festival and the whole Haggada that we recite on the first evening of this festival of freedom. * So that makes archaeologists reluctant to have to tell our brethren and ourselves that there is nothing in Egyptian records to support it.* Nothing on the slavery of the Israelites, nothing on the plagues that persuaded Pharaoh to let them go, nothing on the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea, nothing._​
> _Nothing at all. *There are three Pharaohs who said they got rid of the hated foreigners, but nothing to say who the foreigners were*, and no Pharaoh is named as having persecuted foreign slaves or suffered unspeakable plagues."_​
> Sorry to burst your bubble boy, but a synagogue in Rome, doesn't mean someone kicked your ass out of Egypt way back when.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again You fail to deal on topic in this simple question.
> There's a post like this one where your point would be relevant, though ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey asshole, you questioned someone's "history" and I questioned yours.  That's relevant!
Click to expand...


HeyTROLL that's what You said:

_"You know, I wouldn't go there, seeing how there is no archeological evidence that the* diaspora* ever happened."_

You don't even know what You say...you fail to answer simple questions
then bring your usual off-topic.

What does that have to do with Baletinians?
Better show us their native distinct culture they still maintain, either artifacts or tales, songs, poetry....not Arabic  but distinct PALESTINIAN.
Should e easy since "they've lived there for thousands of years"


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your denial is awesome,there're ancient synagogues all over the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in a long bus, or a short bus?  Because that has nothing to do with what I said.
> 
> I said there is no evidence of the Exodus.  In Egypt.  Back then.
> 
> _Que pasa, mutha?_
> 
> _*The Exodus: Does archaeology have a say?*
> "The whole subject of the Exodus is embarrassing to archaeologists. *The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it.* So we prefer not to talk about it, and hate to be asked about it.
> 
> For the account in the Torah is the basis of our people’s creation, it is the basis of our existence and it is the basis of our important Passover festival and the whole Haggada that we recite on the first evening of this festival of freedom. * So that makes archaeologists reluctant to have to tell our brethren and ourselves that there is nothing in Egyptian records to support it.* Nothing on the slavery of the Israelites, nothing on the plagues that persuaded Pharaoh to let them go, nothing on the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea, nothing._​
> _Nothing at all. *There are three Pharaohs who said they got rid of the hated foreigners, but nothing to say who the foreigners were*, and no Pharaoh is named as having persecuted foreign slaves or suffered unspeakable plagues."_​
> Sorry to burst your bubble boy, but a synagogue in Rome, doesn't mean someone kicked your ass out of Egypt way back when.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again You fail to deal on topic in this simple question.
> There's a post like this one where your point would be relevant, though ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey asshole, you questioned someone's "history" and I questioned yours.  That's relevant!
Click to expand...





 Did you read on where the author shows that there was an Exodus and the evidence is there.

 From your link we see


However, there is another way of looking at it, another way of seeking support for this fundamental experience of our peoplehood.

We do not look for evidence from the biblical text, but we can look to it for the general context of a sojourn in, and an exodus from, Egypt, and there are three major elements.

The first is that the Israelites were slave workers in mudbrick. They had to manufacture the material and they were semi-skilled workers in laying the bricks. As there were thousands of Israelites, what projects were they working on? The pyramids and the temples were in stone, the mudbrick houses of the peasants were built by themselves, so what project needed hundreds of workers in mudbrick? Secondly, when the Israelites escaped, it was during a period of turmoil brought on by the magical plagues, a period when the Egyptians were off their guard and keen to see the slaves go as they wished into the desert.

When could that have been? And thirdly, the Israelites escaped into the desert and there built a most luxurious portable shrine to their God, to accompany them through their long desert trek and to house the Deity that would lead them and protect them on the way. It was to be made of fabulous materials, in hardwood and colored cloth with gold and copper trimmings, as described in detail in 16 chapters of the Torah.


 Read on for the full details from your own link that says you are a LIAR. And you don't question history you try and rewrite it to attack the Jews


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> HeyTROLL that's what You said:


I'm not a troll.  Trolls don't answer direct questions or specifically address what others say.  I do both.




rylah said:


> _"You know, I wouldn't go there, seeing how there is no archeological evidence that the* diaspora* ever happened."_
> 
> You don't even know what You say...


WTF are you talking about?  Are you saying the diaspora has nothing to do with the exodus?




rylah said:


> you fail to answer simple questions
> then bring your usual off-topic.


Again, I answered your questions and bringing up your lack of history after you questioned the history of others, *is on topic.*




rylah said:


> What does that have to do with Baletinians?


I'm not going to respond to your little made-up words.




rylah said:


> Better show us their native distinct culture they still maintain, either artifacts or tales, songs, poetry....not Arabic  but distinct PALESTINIAN.
> Should e easy since "they've lived there for thousands of years"


Why?  They've lived there for thousands of years.  What does showing their culture prove?  Besides, treating them like they are one entity with one mindset, is pretty retarded.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> HeyTROLL that's what You said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a troll.  Trolls don't answer direct questions or specifically address what others say.  I do both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"You know, I wouldn't go there, seeing how there is no archeological evidence that the* diaspora* ever happened."_
> 
> You don't even know what You say...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about?  Are you saying the diaspora has nothing to do with the exodus?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> you fail to answer simple questions
> then bring your usual off-topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I answered your questions and bringing up your lack of history after you questioned the history of others, *is on topic.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Baletinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not going to respond to your little made-up words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better show us their native distinct culture they still maintain, either artifacts or tales, songs, poetry....not Arabic  but distinct PALESTINIAN.
> Should e easy since "they've lived there for thousands of years"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  They've lived there for thousands of years.  What does showing their culture prove?  Besides, treating them like they are one entity with one mindset, is pretty retarded.
Click to expand...




 They do, but in a troll manner, just as you do

 Two separate and distinct actions, showing you have done no research and just copied from some Nazi site

 Not if it deals with a different subject, then it is off topic

 It is what they call themselves, so how is it a made up word ?

 Yet no one has been able to prove that the arab muslims existed prior to 635 C.E. and here you are claiming hey lived and owned  Palestine 800 years before they knew of its existence. History shows they owned Palestine for a matter of 22 years and were evicted in 1099 never to own or control Palestine ever again. So how could it be their land, what treaty/international law gave them Palestine as their property prior to 1988 when they claimed independence and prompty gave it up again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Anoush Belian*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

People in need of being extricated from the Death Cult of hate and derision.

This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's jihad and for those who submit to the loopy sheiks, Mullahs, Emirs,, etc., etc.  who imprison people in hate. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islamism, and when I see something like this dreadful tragedy otherwise called Pal'istanian welfare fraud , I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.


*PA schools named after terrorists by PA Ministry of Education*


PA schools named after terrorists by PA Ministry of Education - PMW Bulletins

Dozens of Palestinian *schools are named after terrorist murderers*. The official Palestinian Authority news agency WAFA now reports that the naming of state schools "is under the authority" of the PA Minister of Education. [WAFA, Aug. 25, 2015] "The naming of schools and changes are the responsibility of the Minister of Education, by a direct decision of the Ministry or the Name Committee," the independent news agency Ma'an added. *Palestinian Media Watch* documented 25 schools named after terrorists in its recent report *Palestinian Authority Education: A Recipe for Hate and Terror*.


----------



## Coyote




----------



## Coyote

Who are the Palestinians?

*A Young Doctor Fights The Depression Epidemic In Palestine*


----------



## Coyote

*Palestinian scientist wins top job at Israeli ministry*

*



*


----------



## Coyote

*14-year-old Palestinian girl wins international math competition*

*



*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Anoush Belian*






 Palestinian or Israeli as she cant be both, Palestinian is a nationality not a race just like Israeli.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


>






And what does this prove apart from ONE arab muslim out of 300 million made it as a doctor


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> *Palestinian scientist wins top job at Israeli ministry*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *






 Again one out of 300 million is not earth shattering, and it shows that Israel is not fascist, racist or apartheid


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> *14-year-old Palestinian girl wins international math competition*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *






 A bit of a false premise as only 15 countries took part.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *A Young Doctor Fights The Depression Epidemic In Palestine*





 If they did not resort to violence they would not be depressed


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

People who elevate those who willfully mass murder un-armed civilians to the status of hero.

http://palwatch.org/STORAGE/special reports/PA Education Report for Teachers Union 210715.pdf#page=11


The following are some examples of schools named after terrorists:

In the PA, there are three schools named after *terrorist Dalal Mughrabi*.

1. The *Dalal Mughrabi *High School for Girls – Gaza

2. The *Dalal Mughrabi *High School for Girls – Al-Shuyoukh, Hebron

3. The *Dalal Mughrabi *Elementary School for Girls – near Hebron


*Terrorist Dalal Mughrabi *led the most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history, known as
the Coastal Road massacre, in 1978, when she and other Fatah terrorists hijacked a
bus on Israel's Coastal Highway, killing 37 civilians, 12 of them children, and wounding
over 70.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi*

**


----------



## Hollie

*PA schools named after terrorists by PA Ministry of Education - PMW Bulletins

Terrorist Shadia Abu Ghazaleh:*
Two Palestinian Authority schools are named after Shadia Abu Ghazaleh - a terrorist who was active in the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) terror organization and involved in many attacks against Israel. While she was preparing a bomb for an attack in Tel Aviv in 1968, it accidentally detonated and killed her.


----------



## Coyote

http://www.thenational.ae/arts-life...rab-women-filmmakers-to-win-ucla-scholarshipA Palestinian woman who lives in the UAE is one of three recipients of an inaugural scholarship for Arab female filmmakers.







Quite accomplished: Annemarie Jacir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Daoud*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Glorifying terrorists and terror | PMW

At least 8 streets in multiple Palestinian cities named after Abu Jihad 
Source: PMW, Aug. 1, 2015
*Bethlehem:*‎ The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street
*Ramallah:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street, The Martyr Abu Jihad College Street, Beitunia (in the Ramallah Governorate)‎
*Tulkarem:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street, The Martyr Abu Jihad Street ‎
*Hebron:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street
*Jenin:*‎ The Martyr Abu Jihad Street
*Bir Nabala (northeast of Jerusalem)‎: *The Martyr Abu Jihad Street

_Note: Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) was a founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. He headed the PLO terror organization's military wing and also planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks. These attacks, which killed a total of 125 Israelis, included the most lethal in Israeli history - the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children._


----------



## Coyote

*Leading Palestinian activist to receive award for nonviolent achievement*

*



*


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Glorifying terrorists and terror | PMW
> 
> At least 8 streets in multiple Palestinian cities named after Abu Jihad
> Source: PMW, Aug. 1, 2015
> *Bethlehem:*‎ The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street
> *Ramallah:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street, The Martyr Abu Jihad College Street, Beitunia (in the Ramallah Governorate)‎
> *Tulkarem:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street, The Martyr Abu Jihad Street ‎
> *Hebron:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street
> *Jenin:*‎ The Martyr Abu Jihad Street
> *Bir Nabala (northeast of Jerusalem)‎: *The Martyr Abu Jihad Street
> 
> _Note: Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) was a founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. He headed the PLO terror organization's military wing and also planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks. These attacks, which killed a total of 125 Israelis, included the most lethal in Israeli history - the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children._


Really Hollie,post by post you become more and more hiedious............sic.........you omitted the 10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists and IDF..........No death is excusable but your 12 Israeli child hardly compares to the Palestinian children.

You GLORIFY ZIONIST MURDERERS................Your are a CURR


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what does this prove apart from ONE arab muslim out of 300 million made it as a doctor
Click to expand...

You are out of touch with Reality...........What Mental Institution can we contact you at ??????


----------



## theliq

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *14-year-old Palestinian girl wins international math competition*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit of a false premise as only 15 countries took part.
Click to expand...

You are a complete Loser Pheo


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


>



Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
and conditions (family) can do.

She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
_
Not to diminish her personal abilities and
achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.

I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
Then asked myself which education did she actually get?

_"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...

"The sky is the limit for Iqbal."

There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.

"But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."

Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_

Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>







 Seen this many years ago, and it is a British invention for the blind. So once again muslims steal something and pass it off as theirs.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *14-year-old Palestinian girl wins international math competition*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit of a false premise as only 15 countries took part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a complete Loser Pheo
Click to expand...





 That would be you actually, which is why you project all the time.


----------



## Hollie

theliq said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glorifying terrorists and terror | PMW
> 
> At least 8 streets in multiple Palestinian cities named after Abu Jihad
> Source: PMW, Aug. 1, 2015
> *Bethlehem:*‎ The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street
> *Ramallah:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street, The Martyr Abu Jihad College Street, Beitunia (in the Ramallah Governorate)‎
> *Tulkarem:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street, The Martyr Abu Jihad Street ‎
> *Hebron:‎* The Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir (Abu Jihad) Street
> *Jenin:*‎ The Martyr Abu Jihad Street
> *Bir Nabala (northeast of Jerusalem)‎: *The Martyr Abu Jihad Street
> 
> _Note: Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) was a founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. He headed the PLO terror organization's military wing and also planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks. These attacks, which killed a total of 125 Israelis, included the most lethal in Israeli history - the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children._
> 
> 
> 
> Really Hollie,post by post you become more and more hiedious............sic.........you omitted the 10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists and IDF..........No death is excusable but your 12 Israeli child hardly compares to the Palestinian children.
> 
> You GLORIFY ZIONIST MURDERERS................Your are a CURR
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

theliq,  et al,

Oh please, don't be such a drama queen.

Really:  "10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists"  You should really right for the Electronic Intifada (EI).  Your exaggerated and bent spin providing a biased interpretation of an events and data is just what they do.  They would love you.  And it is run by an American Freelance Journalist _(Ali Abunimah)_ and a Dutch Politician _(Arjan El Fassed)_.  You would fit right in.



theliq said:


> Really Hollie,post by post you become more and more hiedious............sic.........you omitted the 10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists and IDF..........No death is excusable but your 12 Israeli child hardly compares to the Palestinian children.


*(COMMENT)*

We agree that:  The death of even one child, in preventable events and in discretionary combat, is one too many.  But it happens.  The reasons are many --- and not flattering to either side.

The Paradox here is that War _(conflict between political entities and states)_ is a brutal and ugly enterprise.  The violent nature _(death and destruction)_ and the controversial social effect _(the types and kinds of casualties --- AKA: The Body Count)_, has given rise to troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Yet, inherent to the nature and concept of "war" is to bring ever better and more advanced weapon to bear on the opposing force in a manner that maximizes its killing potential.  Now typically, the exchange between conventional forces results in opponents adjusting their tactics to increase their dispersion of forces so as to minimize the targets provided to the new weapons.  And in the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, dispersion would be the key if the Customary Rules applied.  The measurable casualty effects by opposing modern weapons results in far fewer casualties and far less destruction of military assets when dispersal measures are in play.   However, in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the face-off is NOT between conventional forces.  One is conventional (Israel) and one is asymmetric (Palestinian).  And in the case of the asymmetric (Palestinian) opponent --- they have to discover new methods of fighting in order render certain targetable assets immune from hostile Israeli fires.  The Palestinians do the exact opposite.  Instead of relocating their forces outside densely populated areas, and removing civilians (non-combatants) from the vicinity of their military operations, the Palestinians operate from within the densely populated areas, surrounded by civilians (non-combatants) so that any Israeli counter-strike will result in a measurable increase in casualties. _(See Rule #23 --- and --- Rule #24, Customary IHL)_.  The purpose of this particular tactic is to reduce the effectiveness of the new modern weapons used by the Israelis, and to raise the claim of "War Crimes" against the Israeli on strikes to Hostile Palestinian Targets operating in the close proximity of civilians _[(non-combatants)(homes, women and children)]_, that result in collateral damage and casualties.  This gives rise to sympathy for the Palestinian cause.

That brings us back to the troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Does the Palestinian Cause give the right to disregard Customary International Humanitarian Law in the effort to achieve a Political Victory in the absence of a Military Victory?  Many pro-Palestinians say:  Yes! --- in that the General Assembly has given tacit approval and explicit guidance:

A/RES/2649:  (1970)  "entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right *by any means* at their disposal;"
A/RES/3246:  (1974)  "_Reaffirms _the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation *by all available means*, including armed struggle;"
A/RES/33/24:  (1978) "liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation *by all available means,* particularly armed struggle;"
This, in effect, exempts the Palestinians from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) and the requirement to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State;  and, Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war (A/RES/2/110) and the prevention of all forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression.  More recently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has given tacit approval to the Palestinians to commit War Crimes, by publicly acknowledging that the ICC will conduct an "analysis in full independence and impartiality" into alleged war crimes by only Israel _(not HAMAS/Palestinians)_.  This, in itself, is a successful non-violent approach to politically defeat Israel as an opponent.

In this regard, and based on the fact that both implied and explicit approval has been given to the Palestinians to engage in "any and all means" --- the second moral question arises:  Should Israel be denied the practice of exchanging actions (reciprocity) with Palestinians for mutual combat, especially privileges granted by one the UN General Assembly and ICC to Palestinians?

The death of the children _(highly exaggerated here)_, is very regrettable.  But it was aggravated, advanced and politically exploited by pro-Palestinian resources to achieve political ends that the Palestinians were denied through peaceful means.



theliq said:


> You GLORIFY ZIONIST MURDERERS................Your are a CURR


*(COMMENT)*

Wow, now that is a linguistic tongue twister.

I assume you mean "CUR:"

The term "cur" refers to a mongrel dog. Originally the word cur referred to a certain British purpose-bred, short-tailed cattle droving dog known only from historical records, the cur dog, but in modern usage it applies to any mongrel.  ( en.wikipedia.org )​
I learned a new word.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> theliq,  et al,
> 
> Oh please, don't be such a drama queen.
> 
> Really:  "10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists"  You should really right for the Electronic Intifada (EI).  Your exaggerated and bent spin providing a biased interpretation of an events and data is just what they do.  They would love you.  And it is run by an American Freelance Journalist _(Ali Abunimah)_ and a Dutch Politician _(Arjan El Fassed)_.  You would fit right in.
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Hollie,post by post you become more and more hiedious............sic.........you omitted the 10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists and IDF..........No death is excusable but your 12 Israeli child hardly compares to the Palestinian children.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We agree that:  The death of even one child, in preventable events and in discretionary combat, is one too many.  But it happens.  The reasons are many --- and not flattering to either side.
> 
> The Paradox here is that War _(conflict between political entities and states)_ is a brutal and ugly enterprise.  The violent nature _(death and destruction)_ and the controversial social effect _(the types and kinds of casualties --- AKA: The Body Count)_, has given rise to troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Yet, inherent to the nature and concept of "war" is to bring ever better and more advanced weapon to bear on the opposing force in a manner that maximizes its killing potential.  Now typically, the exchange between conventional forces results in opponents adjusting their tactics to increase their dispersion of forces so as to minimize the targets provided to the new weapons.  And in the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, dispersion would be the key if the Customary Rules applied.  The measurable casualty effects by opposing modern weapons results in far fewer casualties and far less destruction of military assets when dispersal measures are in play.   However, in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the face-off is NOT between conventional forces.  One is conventional (Israel) and one is asymmetric (Palestinian).  And in the case of the asymmetric (Palestinian) opponent --- they have to discover new methods of fighting in order render certain targetable assets immune from hostile Israeli fires.  The Palestinians do the exact opposite.  Instead of relocating their forces outside densely populated areas, and removing civilians (non-combatants) from the vicinity of their military operations, the Palestinians operate from within the densely populated areas, surrounded by civilians (non-combatants) so that any Israeli counter-strike will result in a measurable increase in casualties. _(See Rule #23 --- and --- Rule #24, Customary IHL)_.  The purpose of this particular tactic is to reduce the effectiveness of the new modern weapons used by the Israelis, and to raise the claim of "War Crimes" against the Israeli on strikes to Hostile Palestinian Targets operating in the close proximity of civilians _[(non-combatants)(homes, women and children)]_, that result in collateral damage and casualties.  This gives rise to sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
> 
> That brings us back to the troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Does the Palestinian Cause give the right to disregard Customary International Humanitarian Law in the effort to achieve a Political Victory in the absence of a Military Victory?  Many pro-Palestinians say:  Yes! --- in that the General Assembly has given tacit approval and explicit guidance:
> 
> A/RES/2649:  (1970)  "entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right *by any means* at their disposal;"
> A/RES/3246:  (1974)  "_Reaffirms _the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation *by all available means*, including armed struggle;"
> A/RES/33/24:  (1978) "liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation *by all available means,* particularly armed struggle;"
> This, in effect, exempts the Palestinians from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) and the requirement to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State;  and, Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war (A/RES/2/110) and the prevention of all forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression.  More recently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has given tacit approval to the Palestinians to commit War Crimes, by publicly acknowledging that the ICC will conduct an "analysis in full independence and impartiality" into alleged war crimes by only Israel _(not HAMAS/Palestinians)_.  This, in itself, is a successful non-violent approach to politically defeat Israel as an opponent.
> 
> In this regard, and based on the fact that both implied and explicit approval has been given to the Palestinians to engage in "any and all means" --- the second moral question arises:  Should Israel be denied the practice of exchanging actions (reciprocity) with Palestinians for mutual combat, especially privileges granted by one the UN General Assembly and ICC to Palestinians?
> 
> The death of the children _(highly exaggerated here)_, is very regrettable.  But it was aggravated, advanced and politically exploited by pro-Palestinian resources to achieve political ends that the Palestinians were denied through peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> You GLORIFY ZIONIST MURDERERS................Your are a CURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wow, now that is a linguistic tongue twister.
> 
> I assume you mean "CUR:"
> 
> The term "cur" refers to a mongrel dog. Originally the word cur referred to a certain British purpose-bred, short-tailed cattle droving dog known only from historical records, the cur dog, but in modern usage it applies to any mongrel.  ( en.wikipedia.org )​
> I learned a new word.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More recently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has given tacit approval to the Palestinians to commit War Crimes, by publicly acknowledging that the ICC will conduct an "analysis in full independence and impartiality" into alleged war crimes by only Israel _(not HAMAS/Palestinians)_.​
I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.

Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> theliq,  et al,
> 
> Oh please, don't be such a drama queen.
> 
> Really:  "10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists"  You should really right for the Electronic Intifada (EI).  Your exaggerated and bent spin providing a biased interpretation of an events and data is just what they do.  They would love you.  And it is run by an American Freelance Journalist _(Ali Abunimah)_ and a Dutch Politician _(Arjan El Fassed)_.  You would fit right in.
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Hollie,post by post you become more and more hiedious............sic.........you omitted the 10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists and IDF..........No death is excusable but your 12 Israeli child hardly compares to the Palestinian children.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We agree that:  The death of even one child, in preventable events and in discretionary combat, is one too many.  But it happens.  The reasons are many --- and not flattering to either side.
> 
> The Paradox here is that War _(conflict between political entities and states)_ is a brutal and ugly enterprise.  The violent nature _(death and destruction)_ and the controversial social effect _(the types and kinds of casualties --- AKA: The Body Count)_, has given rise to troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Yet, inherent to the nature and concept of "war" is to bring ever better and more advanced weapon to bear on the opposing force in a manner that maximizes its killing potential.  Now typically, the exchange between conventional forces results in opponents adjusting their tactics to increase their dispersion of forces so as to minimize the targets provided to the new weapons.  And in the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, dispersion would be the key if the Customary Rules applied.  The measurable casualty effects by opposing modern weapons results in far fewer casualties and far less destruction of military assets when dispersal measures are in play.   However, in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the face-off is NOT between conventional forces.  One is conventional (Israel) and one is asymmetric (Palestinian).  And in the case of the asymmetric (Palestinian) opponent --- they have to discover new methods of fighting in order render certain targetable assets immune from hostile Israeli fires.  The Palestinians do the exact opposite.  Instead of relocating their forces outside densely populated areas, and removing civilians (non-combatants) from the vicinity of their military operations, the Palestinians operate from within the densely populated areas, surrounded by civilians (non-combatants) so that any Israeli counter-strike will result in a measurable increase in casualties. _(See Rule #23 --- and --- Rule #24, Customary IHL)_.  The purpose of this particular tactic is to reduce the effectiveness of the new modern weapons used by the Israelis, and to raise the claim of "War Crimes" against the Israeli on strikes to Hostile Palestinian Targets operating in the close proximity of civilians _[(non-combatants)(homes, women and children)]_, that result in collateral damage and casualties.  This gives rise to sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
> 
> That brings us back to the troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Does the Palestinian Cause give the right to disregard Customary International Humanitarian Law in the effort to achieve a Political Victory in the absence of a Military Victory?  Many pro-Palestinians say:  Yes! --- in that the General Assembly has given tacit approval and explicit guidance:
> 
> A/RES/2649:  (1970)  "entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right *by any means* at their disposal;"
> A/RES/3246:  (1974)  "_Reaffirms _the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation *by all available means*, including armed struggle;"
> A/RES/33/24:  (1978) "liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation *by all available means,* particularly armed struggle;"
> This, in effect, exempts the Palestinians from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) and the requirement to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State;  and, Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war (A/RES/2/110) and the prevention of all forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression.  More recently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has given tacit approval to the Palestinians to commit War Crimes, by publicly acknowledging that the ICC will conduct an "analysis in full independence and impartiality" into alleged war crimes by only Israel _(not HAMAS/Palestinians)_.  This, in itself, is a successful non-violent approach to politically defeat Israel as an opponent.
> 
> In this regard, and based on the fact that both implied and explicit approval has been given to the Palestinians to engage in "any and all means" --- the second moral question arises:  Should Israel be denied the practice of exchanging actions (reciprocity) with Palestinians for mutual combat, especially privileges granted by one the UN General Assembly and ICC to Palestinians?
> 
> The death of the children _(highly exaggerated here)_, is very regrettable.  But it was aggravated, advanced and politically exploited by pro-Palestinian resources to achieve political ends that the Palestinians were denied through peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> You GLORIFY ZIONIST MURDERERS................Your are a CURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wow, now that is a linguistic tongue twister.
> 
> I assume you mean "CUR:"
> 
> The term "cur" refers to a mongrel dog. Originally the word cur referred to a certain British purpose-bred, short-tailed cattle droving dog known only from historical records, the cur dog, but in modern usage it applies to any mongrel.  ( en.wikipedia.org )​
> I learned a new word.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More recently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has given tacit approval to the Palestinians to commit War Crimes, by publicly acknowledging that the ICC will conduct an "analysis in full independence and impartiality" into alleged war crimes by only Israel _(not HAMAS/Palestinians)_.​
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
Click to expand...






 Is that why the ICC/ICJ just lately refused to take any action against Israel for alleged war crimes and stated that they would now be looking at Palestinian war crimes with a view to bringing charges. This caused the P.A, through Abu Mazen, to revoke their initial request and thus bring the case to a halt.
 The UN know they have committed war crimes from the Goldstone report and have not taken any action against them because they are afraid of the Islamic contingent stopping the Oil from flowing.

 It is you that does the dancing round subjects that show your misplaced support for Palestinian war crimes, terrorism and violence. The UN has even stated that the qassam rockets are war crimes and should be stopped, but take no further action against the Palestinians.


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


>


actually that is not correct
at 20 she became a doctor.  She is the youngest graduate of Qatar medical school

Balamurali Ambati was the youngest official doctor

* Akrit Jaswal has been preforming surgery since the age of 7*


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *A Young Doctor Fights The Depression Epidemic In Palestine*



Rutgers-Newark Ph.D


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> *Leading Palestinian activist to receive award for nonviolent achievement*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



Iyad Burnat


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seen this many years ago, and it is a British invention for the blind. So once again muslims steal something and pass it off as theirs.
Click to expand...



Indian Institute of Technology Delhi's Assistive Technologies and three Students from Birmingham University came up with the face recognition cane

One of the students Waheed Rafiq is british


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Whenever I ask what criteria is used for the terrorist name calling or what international laws the Palestinians have violated, you respond with a page of crap without specifying any action.

Your posts are empty of anything to show relevance.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, terrorism and "ICC" Crimes (Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity, and War Crimes) are different in terms of Jurisdiction, in terms of Venue and in terms of Elements to the Offenses.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whenever I ask what criteria is used for the terrorist name calling or what international laws the Palestinians have violated, you respond with a page of crap without specifying any action.
> 
> Your posts are empty of anything to show relevance.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Terrorism is a crime that is investigated and prosecuted on Domestic (National) Law of the nation in which the perpetrator commits the offense.  I showed you the crimes in which terrorism is based and the criteria used in the European Union _(the same or similar criteria used for any crimes)_.  And as examples I gave suicide bombers targeting restaurants, aircraft hijacking, and the Munich Olympic events, kidnap and murder of non-combatants _(none of which you acknowledge or recognize)_.  You are so convinced that the Palestinians can do no wrong internationally or otherwise, that it is not worth any further serious debate with you.

As far as ICC Criminal Codes are concerned, I don't believe we have discussed the Elements of the Offense to those issues; although some are very similar.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whenever I ask what criteria is used for the terrorist name calling or what international laws the Palestinians have violated, you respond with a page of crap without specifying any action.
> 
> Your posts are empty of anything to show relevance.
Click to expand...




Get it right you just don't want to see the evidence so you blank it out. I gave examples of the Palestinians breaches of international law and the UN declarations of war crimes and again you ignore them because it shows the crimes of the Palestinians and their terrorist activity


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, terrorism and "ICC" Crimes (Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity, and War Crimes) are different in terms of Jurisdiction, in terms of Venue and in terms of Elements to the Offenses.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whenever I ask what criteria is used for the terrorist name calling or what international laws the Palestinians have violated, you respond with a page of crap without specifying any action.
> 
> Your posts are empty of anything to show relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Terrorism is a crime that is investigated and prosecuted on Domestic (National) Law of the nation in which the perpetrator commits the offense.  I showed you the crimes in which terrorism is based and the criteria used in the European Union _(the same or similar criteria used for any crimes)_.  And as examples I gave suicide bombers targeting restaurants, aircraft hijacking, and the Munich Olympic events, kidnap and murder of non-combatants _(none of which you acknowledge or recognize)_.  You are so convinced that the Palestinians can do no wrong internationally or otherwise, that it is not worth any further serious debate with you.
> 
> As far as ICC Criminal Codes are concerned, I don't believe we have discussed the Elements of the Offense to those issues; although some are very similar.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?

Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh nonsense!



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?
> 
> Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are a felon today,  you will be a felon tomorrow.  If you are a terrorist today, you will still be a terrorist tomorrow.  They were examples of real world events that Palestinians threatens even today; as a measure to coerce political objectives.
> 
> I also gave you the 2014 Output  (Aug thru DEC) of the Global Database for terrorism events by HAMAS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?
> 
> Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are a felon today,  you will be a felon tomorrow.  If you are a terrorist today, you will still be a terrorist tomorrow.  They were examples of real world events that Palestinians threatens even today; as a measure to coerce political objectives.
> 
> I also gave you the 2014 Output  (Aug thru DEC) of the Global Database for terrorism events by HAMAS:
> 
> View attachment 50117​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

How many of these attacks were outside Palestinian borders?

What response are the Palestinians allowed for things like this?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?
> 
> Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are a felon today,  you will be a felon tomorrow.  If you are a terrorist today, you will still be a terrorist tomorrow.  They were examples of real world events that Palestinians threatens even today; as a measure to coerce political objectives.
> 
> I also gave you the 2014 Output  (Aug thru DEC) of the Global Database for terrorism events by HAMAS:
> 
> View attachment 50117​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many of these attacks were outside Palestinian borders?
> 
> What response are the Palestinians allowed for things like this?
Click to expand...


What response do you think will result from acts of Islamic terrorism?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, terrorism and "ICC" Crimes (Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity, and War Crimes) are different in terms of Jurisdiction, in terms of Venue and in terms of Elements to the Offenses.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whenever I ask what criteria is used for the terrorist name calling or what international laws the Palestinians have violated, you respond with a page of crap without specifying any action.
> 
> Your posts are empty of anything to show relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Terrorism is a crime that is investigated and prosecuted on Domestic (National) Law of the nation in which the perpetrator commits the offense.  I showed you the crimes in which terrorism is based and the criteria used in the European Union _(the same or similar criteria used for any crimes)_.  And as examples I gave suicide bombers targeting restaurants, aircraft hijacking, and the Munich Olympic events, kidnap and murder of non-combatants _(none of which you acknowledge or recognize)_.  You are so convinced that the Palestinians can do no wrong internationally or otherwise, that it is not worth any further serious debate with you.
> 
> As far as ICC Criminal Codes are concerned, I don't believe we have discussed the Elements of the Offense to those issues; although some are very similar.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?
> 
> Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.
Click to expand...

Acts of Islamic terrorism perpetrated by Pal'istanians have continued since the '70s.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al, 

Ah and this is how the discussion diverts from terrorism in context, to a border argument;  the Palestinians Claim that Israel and all territory formerly under the Mandate is the sovereign territory of Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> How many of these attacks were outside Palestinian borders?
> 
> What response are the Palestinians allowed for things like this?


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians, fail to recognize the state of Israel.  They make this ridiculous assertion that territory to which Israel maintains sovereignty is somehow Palestinian Territory.  When in fact the Arab Palestinian has not had sovereignty ever over the territory.

But I digress, the conversation was suppose to about "ICC Criminal Code violations."

If you want to change the topic, let me know.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ah and this is how the discussion diverts from terrorism in context, to a border argument;  the Palestinians Claim that Israel and all territory formerly under the Mandate is the sovereign territory of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many of these attacks were outside Palestinian borders?
> 
> What response are the Palestinians allowed for things like this?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians, fail to recognize the state of Israel.  They make this ridiculous assertion that territory to which Israel maintains sovereignty is somehow Palestinian Territory.  When in fact the Arab Palestinian has not had sovereignty ever over the territory.
> 
> But I digress, the conversation was suppose to about "ICC Criminal Code violations."
> 
> If you want to change the topic, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.

I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Yes, you've made this point before.

The use of force by one state against another is generally NOT permissible under international law.  If force is used or threatened, _(as in the threat and use of force by HAMAS against Israel)_ however, states have an inherent right to self defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter (Chapter VII).   Article 51 supports , Article 2(7) (Chapter I) which provides that the UN shall not intervene in matters that are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of a member state. 

The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.  Thus, the UN would have no Jurisdiction within either the territory know as Israel or the territory known as Palestine as in that recognized by the UN as sovereign territory to each.  [See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.]  

International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:

•  international armed conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and

•  non-international armed conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II.​
The International Criminal Court (ICC) is the first treaty-based, permanent international criminal court established to help end impunity for the perpetrators like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from conducting indiscriminate attacks _(Rule #11 Customary IHL)_ of the most serious crimes of international concern.  The importance of this fact is in the Jurisdiction and defined prohibition under the Geneva Convention.  In Additional Protocol II (pertaining to NIACs) does not contain this the equivalent of Rule #11 (Indiscriminate Attacks) whereas Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I (pertaining to IACs) does.  Even though it has been argued that it is included by inference within the prohibition against making the civilian population the object of attack contained in Article 13(2).   

Similarly, the ICCs Elements of the Offense for Article 8 (2) (b) (i) War crime of attacking civilians includes:  The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).   

It is also important to note that relative to Article 8 (2) (a) (vii)-1 War crime of unlawful deportation and transfer:  The Elements of the Offense also include the requirement that the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).

THUS:  If the claim that it is not an International Conflict or an NAIC in character, the ICC will not consider prosecution for some of the basic complaints presented by the Palestinians against the Israelis.

If, on the other hand, the character of the conflict is considered an IAC character,  then all the HAMAS attacks (in deed all Palestinian attacks in/on Israel) are international in flavor and the both the criminal code and the terrorism laws are very much applicable.  And that would make the entire data dump of Palestinian Attacks subject to prsecution for the hostile conduct in the attempt to intimidate and coerce Israelis in the furtherance of Palestinian political agendas.

_I'm sure we went through this all once before._



P F Tinmore said:


> Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.
> 
> I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.


*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.

Borders are boundary lines that are recognized as marking a territory under which a sovereign entity has established and maintained control.  If the Israelis defend it as a border, then it is a border, without regard to any argument the Palestinians may further.  If the marked it, control it and govern it, then it is theirs.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> theliq,  et al,
> 
> Oh please, don't be such a drama queen.
> 
> Really:  "10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists"  You should really right for the Electronic Intifada (EI).  Your exaggerated and bent spin providing a biased interpretation of an events and data is just what they do.  They would love you.  And it is run by an American Freelance Journalist _(Ali Abunimah)_ and a Dutch Politician _(Arjan El Fassed)_.  You would fit right in.
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Hollie,post by post you become more and more hiedious............sic.........you omitted the 10's of thousands of Palestinian Babies and Children SLAUGHTERED by Zionists and IDF..........No death is excusable but your 12 Israeli child hardly compares to the Palestinian children.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We agree that:  The death of even one child, in preventable events and in discretionary combat, is one too many.  But it happens.  The reasons are many --- and not flattering to either side.
> 
> The Paradox here is that War _(conflict between political entities and states)_ is a brutal and ugly enterprise.  The violent nature _(death and destruction)_ and the controversial social effect _(the types and kinds of casualties --- AKA: The Body Count)_, has given rise to troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Yet, inherent to the nature and concept of "war" is to bring ever better and more advanced weapon to bear on the opposing force in a manner that maximizes its killing potential.  Now typically, the exchange between conventional forces results in opponents adjusting their tactics to increase their dispersion of forces so as to minimize the targets provided to the new weapons.  And in the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, dispersion would be the key if the Customary Rules applied.  The measurable casualty effects by opposing modern weapons results in far fewer casualties and far less destruction of military assets when dispersal measures are in play.   However, in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the face-off is NOT between conventional forces.  One is conventional (Israel) and one is asymmetric (Palestinian).  And in the case of the asymmetric (Palestinian) opponent --- they have to discover new methods of fighting in order render certain targetable assets immune from hostile Israeli fires.  The Palestinians do the exact opposite.  Instead of relocating their forces outside densely populated areas, and removing civilians (non-combatants) from the vicinity of their military operations, the Palestinians operate from within the densely populated areas, surrounded by civilians (non-combatants) so that any Israeli counter-strike will result in a measurable increase in casualties. _(See Rule #23 --- and --- Rule #24, Customary IHL)_.  The purpose of this particular tactic is to reduce the effectiveness of the new modern weapons used by the Israelis, and to raise the claim of "War Crimes" against the Israeli on strikes to Hostile Palestinian Targets operating in the close proximity of civilians _[(non-combatants)(homes, women and children)]_, that result in collateral damage and casualties.  This gives rise to sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
> 
> That brings us back to the troubling moral questions that haven't been solved in over five millennium.  Does the Palestinian Cause give the right to disregard Customary International Humanitarian Law in the effort to achieve a Political Victory in the absence of a Military Victory?  Many pro-Palestinians say:  Yes! --- in that the General Assembly has given tacit approval and explicit guidance:
> 
> A/RES/2649:  (1970)  "entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right *by any means* at their disposal;"
> A/RES/3246:  (1974)  "_Reaffirms _the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation *by all available means*, including armed struggle;"
> A/RES/33/24:  (1978) "liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation *by all available means,* particularly armed struggle;"
> This, in effect, exempts the Palestinians from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) and the requirement to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State;  and, Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war (A/RES/2/110) and the prevention of all forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression.  More recently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has given tacit approval to the Palestinians to commit War Crimes, by publicly acknowledging that the ICC will conduct an "analysis in full independence and impartiality" into alleged war crimes by only Israel _(not HAMAS/Palestinians)_.  This, in itself, is a successful non-violent approach to politically defeat Israel as an opponent.
> 
> In this regard, and based on the fact that both implied and explicit approval has been given to the Palestinians to engage in "any and all means" --- the second moral question arises:  Should Israel be denied the practice of exchanging actions (reciprocity) with Palestinians for mutual combat, especially privileges granted by one the UN General Assembly and ICC to Palestinians?
> 
> The death of the children _(highly exaggerated here)_, is very regrettable.  But it was aggravated, advanced and politically exploited by pro-Palestinian resources to achieve political ends that the Palestinians were denied through peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> You GLORIFY ZIONIST MURDERERS................Your are a CURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wow, now that is a linguistic tongue twister.
> 
> I assume you mean "CUR:"
> 
> The term "cur" refers to a mongrel dog. Originally the word cur referred to a certain British purpose-bred, short-tailed cattle droving dog known only from historical records, the cur dog, but in modern usage it applies to any mongrel.  ( en.wikipedia.org )​
> I learned a new word.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Well I try to improve ones vocabulary Rocco......on here,my figures are truthful but my main objective is to expose the lack of truthful and fair reporting of the facts in Hollies prose.......not this myopic one sidedness of only Jewish deaths over the years during this schism,because the wording of such posts by Hollie,imply that only Jewish children have been killed moreover assuming that it is the Palestinians are the aggressors...which is completely untrue and the facts of the matter completely contradict Hollies often Hateful attitude towards Palestinians,an attitude more often than not endorsed by the Pro-Zionist lobby on here.Including yourself.

Every death is a tragedy.......FULL STOP.steve........ACTUALLY Israels aggrandizement,does not enhance the reputation of Israel but the reverse in fact.

ps By the way we are all Mongrels of some sort...........just some behave like a Rabid Dog....... with Respect Rocco but a Drama Queen LOL ..... Me,Gee Thanks

pps Rocco in Paradise we often put an extra letter on the end of a word to emphasise the word

As in CUR....CURR


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, you've made this point before.
> 
> The use of force by one state against another is generally NOT permissible under international law.  If force is used or threatened, _(as in the threat and use of force by HAMAS against Israel)_ however, states have an inherent right to self defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter (Chapter VII).   Article 51 supports , Article 2(7) (Chapter I) which provides that the UN shall not intervene in matters that are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of a member state.
> 
> The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.  Thus, the UN would have no Jurisdiction within either the territory know as Israel or the territory known as Palestine as in that recognized by the UN as sovereign territory to each.  [See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.]
> 
> International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> •  international armed conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  non-international armed conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II.​
> The International Criminal Court (ICC) is the first treaty-based, permanent international criminal court established to help end impunity for the perpetrators like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from conducting indiscriminate attacks _(Rule #11 Customary IHL)_ of the most serious crimes of international concern.  The importance of this fact is in the Jurisdiction and defined prohibition under the Geneva Convention.  In Additional Protocol II (pertaining to NIACs) does not contain this the equivalent of Rule #11 (Indiscriminate Attacks) whereas Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I (pertaining to IACs) does.  Even though it has been argued that it is included by inference within the prohibition against making the civilian population the object of attack contained in Article 13(2).
> 
> Similarly, the ICCs Elements of the Offense for Article 8 (2) (b) (i) War crime of attacking civilians includes:  The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> It is also important to note that relative to Article 8 (2) (a) (vii)-1 War crime of unlawful deportation and transfer:  The Elements of the Offense also include the requirement that the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> THUS:  If the claim that it is not an International Conflict or an NAIC in character, the ICC will not consider prosecution for some of the basic complaints presented by the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the character of the conflict is considered an IAC character,  then all the HAMAS attacks (in deed all Palestinian attacks in/on Israel) are international in flavor and the both the criminal code and the terrorism laws are very much applicable.  And that would make the entire data dump of Palestinian Attacks subject to prsecution for the hostile conduct in the attempt to intimidate and coerce Israelis in the furtherance of Palestinian political agendas.
> 
> _I'm sure we went through this all once before._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.
> 
> I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.
> 
> Borders are boundary lines that are recognized as marking a territory under which a sovereign entity has established and maintained control.  If the Israelis defend it as a border, then it is a border, without regard to any argument the Palestinians may further.  If the marked it, control it and govern it, then it is theirs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.​
You can put that away. Nothing of the sort ever happened. The UN and the creation of Israel were completely separate. There was no compliance of anything UN by Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, terrorism and "ICC" Crimes (Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity, and War Crimes) are different in terms of Jurisdiction, in terms of Venue and in terms of Elements to the Offenses.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I've faded away from any discussion along this line.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Palestinians have committed war crimes. Perhaps the ICC knows this.
> 
> Every time I try to discuss this with you, you start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think you've asked a direct question on this subject.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whenever I ask what criteria is used for the terrorist name calling or what international laws the Palestinians have violated, you respond with a page of crap without specifying any action.
> 
> Your posts are empty of anything to show relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Terrorism is a crime that is investigated and prosecuted on Domestic (National) Law of the nation in which the perpetrator commits the offense.  I showed you the crimes in which terrorism is based and the criteria used in the European Union _(the same or similar criteria used for any crimes)_.  And as examples I gave suicide bombers targeting restaurants, aircraft hijacking, and the Munich Olympic events, kidnap and murder of non-combatants _(none of which you acknowledge or recognize)_.  You are so convinced that the Palestinians can do no wrong internationally or otherwise, that it is not worth any further serious debate with you.
> 
> As far as ICC Criminal Codes are concerned, I don't believe we have discussed the Elements of the Offense to those issues; although some are very similar.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?
> 
> Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.
Click to expand...





 But they were never stopped in the 70's were they, as the Palestinian charters show they are using the right to attack by any means as an excuse for international terrorism. The UN has declared qassams weapons of terror and declared each one to be a war crime. The kidnapping of Israeli citizens from Israel is another terrorist act and hamas has admitted to attempting to do this. So you are doing your Ostrich act again because you cant admit that the Palestinians are in breach of international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, you've made this point before.
> 
> The use of force by one state against another is generally NOT permissible under international law.  If force is used or threatened, _(as in the threat and use of force by HAMAS against Israel)_ however, states have an inherent right to self defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter (Chapter VII).   Article 51 supports , Article 2(7) (Chapter I) which provides that the UN shall not intervene in matters that are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of a member state.
> 
> The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.  Thus, the UN would have no Jurisdiction within either the territory know as Israel or the territory known as Palestine as in that recognized by the UN as sovereign territory to each.  [See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.]
> 
> International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> •  international armed conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  non-international armed conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II.​
> The International Criminal Court (ICC) is the first treaty-based, permanent international criminal court established to help end impunity for the perpetrators like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from conducting indiscriminate attacks _(Rule #11 Customary IHL)_ of the most serious crimes of international concern.  The importance of this fact is in the Jurisdiction and defined prohibition under the Geneva Convention.  In Additional Protocol II (pertaining to NIACs) does not contain this the equivalent of Rule #11 (Indiscriminate Attacks) whereas Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I (pertaining to IACs) does.  Even though it has been argued that it is included by inference within the prohibition against making the civilian population the object of attack contained in Article 13(2).
> 
> Similarly, the ICCs Elements of the Offense for Article 8 (2) (b) (i) War crime of attacking civilians includes:  The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> It is also important to note that relative to Article 8 (2) (a) (vii)-1 War crime of unlawful deportation and transfer:  The Elements of the Offense also include the requirement that the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> THUS:  If the claim that it is not an International Conflict or an NAIC in character, the ICC will not consider prosecution for some of the basic complaints presented by the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the character of the conflict is considered an IAC character,  then all the HAMAS attacks (in deed all Palestinian attacks in/on Israel) are international in flavor and the both the criminal code and the terrorism laws are very much applicable.  And that would make the entire data dump of Palestinian Attacks subject to prsecution for the hostile conduct in the attempt to intimidate and coerce Israelis in the furtherance of Palestinian political agendas.
> 
> _I'm sure we went through this all once before._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.
> 
> I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.
> 
> Borders are boundary lines that are recognized as marking a territory under which a sovereign entity has established and maintained control.  If the Israelis defend it as a border, then it is a border, without regard to any argument the Palestinians may further.  If the marked it, control it and govern it, then it is theirs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.​
Close but no cigar.

The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.

What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*

This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.

The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.

When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how activities that were stopped in the '70s are related to current terrorist name calling. Why are you blowing that smoke?
> 
> Here again you are posting the law but leaving out the relevance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are a felon today,  you will be a felon tomorrow.  If you are a terrorist today, you will still be a terrorist tomorrow.  They were examples of real world events that Palestinians threatens even today; as a measure to coerce political objectives.
> 
> I also gave you the 2014 Output  (Aug thru DEC) of the Global Database for terrorism events by HAMAS:
> 
> View attachment 50117​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many of these attacks were outside Palestinian borders?
> 
> What response are the Palestinians allowed for things like this?
Click to expand...







 NONE as they brought this on themselves by terrorist acts and war, they cant expect Israel to not respond to illegal weapons fired at civilians. So they see return fire that unfortunately sees many children forced to act as human shields get killed. To stop those killings they need to stop the violence and terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

And still you refuse to produce a link to these allaged slaughters, making you a LIAR


----------



## Phoenall

And still you refuse to produce a link to these alleged slaughters, making you a LIAR


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, you've made this point before.
> 
> The use of force by one state against another is generally NOT permissible under international law.  If force is used or threatened, _(as in the threat and use of force by HAMAS against Israel)_ however, states have an inherent right to self defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter (Chapter VII).   Article 51 supports , Article 2(7) (Chapter I) which provides that the UN shall not intervene in matters that are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of a member state.
> 
> The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.  Thus, the UN would have no Jurisdiction within either the territory know as Israel or the territory known as Palestine as in that recognized by the UN as sovereign territory to each.  [See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.]
> 
> International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> •  international armed conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  non-international armed conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II.​
> The International Criminal Court (ICC) is the first treaty-based, permanent international criminal court established to help end impunity for the perpetrators like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from conducting indiscriminate attacks _(Rule #11 Customary IHL)_ of the most serious crimes of international concern.  The importance of this fact is in the Jurisdiction and defined prohibition under the Geneva Convention.  In Additional Protocol II (pertaining to NIACs) does not contain this the equivalent of Rule #11 (Indiscriminate Attacks) whereas Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I (pertaining to IACs) does.  Even though it has been argued that it is included by inference within the prohibition against making the civilian population the object of attack contained in Article 13(2).
> 
> Similarly, the ICCs Elements of the Offense for Article 8 (2) (b) (i) War crime of attacking civilians includes:  The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> It is also important to note that relative to Article 8 (2) (a) (vii)-1 War crime of unlawful deportation and transfer:  The Elements of the Offense also include the requirement that the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> THUS:  If the claim that it is not an International Conflict or an NAIC in character, the ICC will not consider prosecution for some of the basic complaints presented by the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the character of the conflict is considered an IAC character,  then all the HAMAS attacks (in deed all Palestinian attacks in/on Israel) are international in flavor and the both the criminal code and the terrorism laws are very much applicable.  And that would make the entire data dump of Palestinian Attacks subject to prsecution for the hostile conduct in the attempt to intimidate and coerce Israelis in the furtherance of Palestinian political agendas.
> 
> _I'm sure we went through this all once before._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.
> 
> I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.
> 
> Borders are boundary lines that are recognized as marking a territory under which a sovereign entity has established and maintained control.  If the Israelis defend it as a border, then it is a border, without regard to any argument the Palestinians may further.  If the marked it, control it and govern it, then it is theirs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.​
> You can put that away. Nothing of the sort ever happened. The UN and the creation of Israel were completely separate. There was no compliance of anything UN by Israel.
Click to expand...





 Says who ?    as your word alone is worth nothing.

 Again you forget that the Mandate granted all the land to the Jews for their National home, it did not mention it being split to accommodate the arab muslims.  Time for the international courts to become involved and make a binding decision once and for all on who owns the land under international law and international treaty. Don't cry when it is given to Israel and the arab muslims have to go back home.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, you've made this point before.
> 
> The use of force by one state against another is generally NOT permissible under international law.  If force is used or threatened, _(as in the threat and use of force by HAMAS against Israel)_ however, states have an inherent right to self defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter (Chapter VII).   Article 51 supports , Article 2(7) (Chapter I) which provides that the UN shall not intervene in matters that are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of a member state.
> 
> The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.  Thus, the UN would have no Jurisdiction within either the territory know as Israel or the territory known as Palestine as in that recognized by the UN as sovereign territory to each.  [See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.]
> 
> International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> •  international armed conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  non-international armed conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II.​
> The International Criminal Court (ICC) is the first treaty-based, permanent international criminal court established to help end impunity for the perpetrators like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from conducting indiscriminate attacks _(Rule #11 Customary IHL)_ of the most serious crimes of international concern.  The importance of this fact is in the Jurisdiction and defined prohibition under the Geneva Convention.  In Additional Protocol II (pertaining to NIACs) does not contain this the equivalent of Rule #11 (Indiscriminate Attacks) whereas Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I (pertaining to IACs) does.  Even though it has been argued that it is included by inference within the prohibition against making the civilian population the object of attack contained in Article 13(2).
> 
> Similarly, the ICCs Elements of the Offense for Article 8 (2) (b) (i) War crime of attacking civilians includes:  The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> It is also important to note that relative to Article 8 (2) (a) (vii)-1 War crime of unlawful deportation and transfer:  The Elements of the Offense also include the requirement that the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict (IAC).
> 
> THUS:  If the claim that it is not an International Conflict or an NAIC in character, the ICC will not consider prosecution for some of the basic complaints presented by the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the character of the conflict is considered an IAC character,  then all the HAMAS attacks (in deed all Palestinian attacks in/on Israel) are international in flavor and the both the criminal code and the terrorism laws are very much applicable.  And that would make the entire data dump of Palestinian Attacks subject to prsecution for the hostile conduct in the attempt to intimidate and coerce Israelis in the furtherance of Palestinian political agendas.
> 
> _I'm sure we went through this all once before._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.
> 
> I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish People followed the UN recommendations pertaining to the Steps Preparatory to Independence.
> 
> Borders are boundary lines that are recognized as marking a territory under which a sovereign entity has established and maintained control.  If the Israelis defend it as a border, then it is a border, without regard to any argument the Palestinians may further.  If the marked it, control it and govern it, then it is theirs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question you (P F Tinmore) put forth is profound, in that if Israel does not exist as an independent, self-governing and Sovereign State, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is essentially a civil war between constituent faction.​
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
Click to expand...






 1) the mandate just enacted the Balfour declaration

 2) the mandate delineated the area for the Jewish NATIONal home

 3) the arab league did not like that so declared war

 4) the arab muslims tried to take by force all the land and failed

 5) the mandate was not allowed to run its course because of arab violence

 6) the British could no longer afford to police Palestine and handed the reigns over to the UN

 7) the Jews declared independence from the mandate under the terms of the mandate.

 8) the UN accepted the declaration and Israel was formed LEGALLY

 9) the arab league invaded with the intention of wiping out the Jews and taking the land of Israel for themselves.

 10) The UN stopped the Jews from dealing the arab league a thrashing and setting them back 1000 years.

 11) under international laws of 1923 and 1949 the land was Jewish and the arab muslims had no legal right to it

 Clear enough for you, now try and refute the above 11 facts one at a time with links to unbiased sources.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Ah and this is how the discussion diverts from terrorism in context, to a border argument;  the Palestinians Claim that Israel and all territory formerly under the Mandate is the sovereign territory of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many of these attacks were outside Palestinian borders?
> 
> What response are the Palestinians allowed for things like this?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians, fail to recognize the state of Israel.  They make this ridiculous assertion that territory to which Israel maintains sovereignty is somehow Palestinian Territory.  When in fact the Arab Palestinian has not had sovereignty ever over the territory.
> 
> But I digress, the conversation was suppose to about "ICC Criminal Code violations."
> 
> If you want to change the topic, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Territory is of prime importance. If I kill somebody in my house it is a very different act than if I kill somebody in his house. One would be defensive the other would be aggressive.
> 
> I think that Israel's claim to territory is merely say so without any documentation to back up that assertion. You have avoided a fact based discussion on this issue.
Click to expand...





 Depends on the scenario as you could kill someone in your home who was there legally, then it would be aggressive.

 I have given the documentation that show that Israel owns the land and you choose to ignore it.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.

You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.

Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.



P F Tinmore said:


> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."


*(COMMENT)*

The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.

MANTRA:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures. 

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.

But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.​
You didn't read my post.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.​
> You didn't read my post.
Click to expand...





 That might have been the case back before 1931, but once the arab league became involved they introduced 5 other nations into the equation. This resulted in it becoming an illegal all out war which goes against the UN charter and resolutions and the UN should have sent heavily armed troops in to put down the rabid arab dogs once and for all. Then told the Palestinians that they had lost any chance they had of any land in Jewish Palestine and to pack their bags and go.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.

MANTRA:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures. 

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.

If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.​
How so?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.



P F Tinmore said:


> You didn't read my post.


*(COMMENT)*

It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).

However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC. 

This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.​
> How so?
Click to expand...





 Because the UN cant call the shots anymore and they will have to stay out of the thrashing the Palestinians would get from Israel. And it would meant that Israel could legally acquire the land and it would not be gained through violent action as it is already theirs. No UN resolutions would apply and every one on the books would need to be removed completely. If you cant see that then you are a bigger fool that we thought you where.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Then you are just being obstinate.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.

The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I already gave you all the links.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.​
You have never shown where that is false.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

None of those define land, territory, or borders.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,   et al,

Just as the Soviet Union is no more, --- the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is no more, and Czechoslovakia dissolved into the Czech Republic and Slovakian, --- so it is with the Mandate era Palestine  --- it is no more.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.​
> You have never shown where that is false.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Read the recognitions for which I gave you the links.   Palestine, as defined by the Palestine Order in Council, is no more.  It is no longer an entity that exists from the river to the sea, and from north to south.  It is composed of the territories described in A/RES/68/12 Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, and A/RES/67/19 Status of Palestine in the United Nations.


"_Affirms its determination_ to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;"  ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

It is what it is.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You can believe what you want.  Your criteria is not the determining factor of any peaceful settlement.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> Just as the Soviet Union is no more, --- the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is no more, and Czechoslovakia dissolved into the Czech Republic and Slovakian, --- so it is with the Mandate era Palestine  --- it is no more.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.​
> You have never shown where that is false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Read the recognitions for which I gave you the links.   Palestine, as defined by the Palestine Order in Council, is no more.  It is no longer an entity that exists from the river to the sea, and from north to south.  It is composed of the territories described in A/RES/68/12 Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, and A/RES/67/19 Status of Palestine in the United Nations.
> 
> 
> "_Affirms its determination_ to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;" ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Read the recognitions for which I gave you the links. Palestine, as defined by the Palestine Order in Council, is no more. It is no longer an entity that exists from the river to the sea, and from north to south.​
That is not what Britain said when it left Palestine.

What else you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can believe what you want.  Your criteria is not the determining factor of any peaceful settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is not what I "believe."

None of those define land, territory, or borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

70 virgins for Martyrs, preached to kids at Al-Aqsa Mosque summer camp


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Then don't believe it.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can believe what you want.  Your criteria is not the determining factor of any peaceful settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not what I "believe."
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The conflict with the Hostile Arab Palestinians is all about the conflict in interpretation of the Treaties that Israel has with Jordan and Egypt, stipulating the international boundaries, and the interpretations the Hostile Arab Palestinian (like your self) have failed to resolve.

But don't confuse:


The difference between IAC and NAIC.
The issue of "land, territory, or borders" relative to official recognition as a state.
The difference between official recognition and territorial disputes between the Israelis and the Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
You may want the world to organize itself along the lines you have defined.  But the reality is that --- it does not always work that way.  The fact is, that the State of Palestine is officially recognized by the:


UN as:  "_Reaffirms_ the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;"
PLO Negotiation Affairs Department as:  "The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt." 
Whatever you want to believe is OK with me.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
> and conditions (family) can do.
> 
> She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
> _
> Not to diminish her personal abilities and
> achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.
> 
> I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
> Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
> Then asked myself which education did she actually get?
> 
> _"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...
> 
> "The sky is the limit for Iqbal."
> 
> There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.
> 
> "But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."
> 
> Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_
> 
> Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?
Click to expand...


She is a part of the regular Palestinian culture.

Palestine is not Saudi Arabia - women drive and women are educated.  In fact, they are well educated, but the culture still blocks them out of a lot of jobs - like we were 50 years ago: Palestinian women are well educated, but do not find good jobs

It's really sad she can't work in Lebanon, because she's a Palestinian


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Then don't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can believe what you want.  Your criteria is not the determining factor of any peaceful settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not what I "believe."
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The conflict with the Hostile Arab Palestinians is all about the conflict in interpretation of the Treaties that Israel has with Jordan and Egypt, stipulating the international boundaries, and the interpretations the Hostile Arab Palestinian (like your self) have failed to resolve.
> 
> But don't confuse:
> 
> 
> The difference between IAC and NAIC.
> The issue of "land, territory, or borders" relative to official recognition as a state.
> The difference between official recognition and territorial disputes between the Israelis and the Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> You may want the world to organize itself along the lines you have defined.  But the reality is that --- it does not always work that way.  The fact is, that the State of Palestine is officially recognized by the:
> 
> 
> UN as:  "_Reaffirms_ the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;"
> PLO Negotiation Affairs Department as:  "The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt."
> Whatever you want to believe is OK with me.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

They are referencing "borders" that were never borders. The UN has no authority over borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
> and conditions (family) can do.
> 
> She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
> _
> Not to diminish her personal abilities and
> achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.
> 
> I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
> Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
> Then asked myself which education did she actually get?
> 
> _"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...
> 
> "The sky is the limit for Iqbal."
> 
> There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.
> 
> "But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."
> 
> Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_
> 
> Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She is a part of the regular Palestinian culture.
> 
> Palestine is not Saudi Arabia - women drive and women are educated.  In fact, they are well educated, but the culture still blocks them out of a lot of jobs - like we were 50 years ago: Palestinian women are well educated, but do not find good jobs
> 
> It's really sad she can't work in Lebanon, because she's a Palestinian
Click to expand...

A Palestinian friend of mine came to the US under some refugee deal. He became a US citizen. He owns a business. The problem is that his wife and two pre teen daughters live in Jordan. They are not even allowed to visit here. He has to go to Jordan to see his wife and kids.

That is the problem that Palestinians have. They get jerked around all over the world.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

You are still confused.



P F Tinmore said:


> They are referencing "borders" that were never borders. The UN has no authority over borders.


*(COMMENT)*

There is a difference between the recognition of borders by the UN and the assignment of borders by the UN.  We are talking about the recognition of the border.  You may ask why they recognize it.  And it is the same reason nations have used since the time of the Treaty of Westphalia.

REMEMBER:   Key Principle

In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the borders are defined by the extension of sovereign control.  Internationally, this sovereign control is very easy to recognize.  Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.

In contrast, The State of Palestine has no sovereign control.  It is the Palestinians which have to negotiate with the Israelis for sovereign control and the determination of the mutual borders; not the other way around.  As long as the State of Palestine fails or avoid establishing terms of peace, the longer it will be that the State of Palestine and its sovereignty is in question; temporarily determined by the Israelis.  The Palestinians can vocally claim any territory it wants.  But it is Israel that determines how far Palestinian control may extend.  In effect, the border is where ever Israel establishes it and defends it against Palestinian aggression; since there is no agreement on peace with Palestine, nor is there likely to be a peace agreement in the near future. 


Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.​
It is the State of Palestine that is the aggressor nation relative to the potential for sovereignty.   Elements of the Palestinian Government have establish a de facto state of war with Israel.  And it is this State of War that threatens the peace and security within the region.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians have established a policy that:


"No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing."​
In this case, when the Palestinians define "Palestine," they include the State of Israel.  When the Hostile Arab Palestinian talks of "occupation," they include the State of Israel as "occupied Palestinian territory."  This is what is meant by "legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine."  Thus, the State of Palestine has a policy that it will evict the State of Israel at its first opportunity.  This is:  "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence against the State of Israel."  Nothing in the present UN Charter impairs the inherent right of the State of Israel to defend itself against armed attack, --- or threat to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence against the State of Israel, --- from whatever aspect of Palestine it may be originating. 

Quasi-recognition _(observer status)_ for the State of Palestine is based largely on the sympathy vote.   The lack of effective and independent governmental control has, in the past, served as a basis for the non-recognition of an entity as a sovereign state.   However, the Palestinian Leadership has asserted that the governmental institutions created under the Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO satisfy this criterion of statehood.  Even if this is true, it would again demonstrate the influence of Israel in the matter.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are still confused.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are referencing "borders" that were never borders. The UN has no authority over borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a difference between the recognition of borders by the UN and the assignment of borders by the UN.  We are talking about the recognition of the border.  You may ask why they recognize it.  And it is the same reason nations have used since the time of the Treaty of Westphalia.
> 
> REMEMBER:   Key Principle
> 
> In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the borders are defined by the extension of sovereign control.  Internationally, this sovereign control is very easy to recognize.  Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> In contrast, The State of Palestine has no sovereign control.  It is the Palestinians which have to negotiate with the Israelis for sovereign control and the determination of the mutual borders; not the other way around.  As long as the State of Palestine fails or avoid establishing terms of peace, the longer it will be that the State of Palestine and its sovereignty is in question; temporarily determined by the Israelis.  The Palestinians can vocally claim any territory it wants.  But it is Israel that determines how far Palestinian control may extend.  In effect, the border is where ever Israel establishes it and defends it against Palestinian aggression; since there is no agreement on peace with Palestine, nor is there likely to be a peace agreement in the near future.
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.​
> It is the State of Palestine that is the aggressor nation relative to the potential for sovereignty.   Elements of the Palestinian Government have establish a de facto state of war with Israel.  And it is this State of War that threatens the peace and security within the region.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians have established a policy that:
> 
> 
> "No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing."​
> In this case, when the Palestinians define "Palestine," they include the State of Israel.  When the Hostile Arab Palestinian talks of "occupation," they include the State of Israel as "occupied Palestinian territory."  This is what is meant by "legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine."  Thus, the State of Palestine has a policy that it will evict the State of Israel at its first opportunity.  This is:  "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence against the State of Israel."  Nothing in the present UN Charter impairs the inherent right of the State of Israel to defend itself against armed attack, --- or threat to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence against the State of Israel, --- from whatever aspect of Palestine it may be originating.
> 
> Quasi-recognition _(observer status)_ for the State of Palestine is based largely on the sympathy vote.   The lack of effective and independent governmental control has, in the past, served as a basis for the non-recognition of an entity as a sovereign state.   However, the Palestinian Leadership has asserted that the governmental institutions created under the Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO satisfy this criterion of statehood.  Even if this is true, it would again demonstrate the influence of Israel in the matter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.

Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
Click to expand...





 Only because you refuse to accept international treaties and UN documentation that supports Israel's legal existence.

 1) the Jews declared independence from the mandate on May 14 1948

 2) the UN accepted the declaration and allowed it to stand under the mandate

 3) the arab league tried to counter claim on land already claimed by Israel and saw their claim thrown out as invalid

 4) the UN accepted Israel as a legal entity and accepted it as a nation

 5) the evidence shows that you are refusing to accept anything that supports Israel being a nation on land granted under international treaty in 1923 and under the UN resolution 181 because you support islamonazi terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are still confused.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are referencing "borders" that were never borders. The UN has no authority over borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a difference between the recognition of borders by the UN and the assignment of borders by the UN.  We are talking about the recognition of the border.  You may ask why they recognize it.  And it is the same reason nations have used since the time of the Treaty of Westphalia.
> 
> REMEMBER:   Key Principle
> 
> In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the borders are defined by the extension of sovereign control.  Internationally, this sovereign control is very easy to recognize.  Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> In contrast, The State of Palestine has no sovereign control.  It is the Palestinians which have to negotiate with the Israelis for sovereign control and the determination of the mutual borders; not the other way around.  As long as the State of Palestine fails or avoid establishing terms of peace, the longer it will be that the State of Palestine and its sovereignty is in question; temporarily determined by the Israelis.  The Palestinians can vocally claim any territory it wants.  But it is Israel that determines how far Palestinian control may extend.  In effect, the border is where ever Israel establishes it and defends it against Palestinian aggression; since there is no agreement on peace with Palestine, nor is there likely to be a peace agreement in the near future.
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.​
> It is the State of Palestine that is the aggressor nation relative to the potential for sovereignty.   Elements of the Palestinian Government have establish a de facto state of war with Israel.  And it is this State of War that threatens the peace and security within the region.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians have established a policy that:
> 
> 
> "No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing."​
> In this case, when the Palestinians define "Palestine," they include the State of Israel.  When the Hostile Arab Palestinian talks of "occupation," they include the State of Israel as "occupied Palestinian territory."  This is what is meant by "legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine."  Thus, the State of Palestine has a policy that it will evict the State of Israel at its first opportunity.  This is:  "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence against the State of Israel."  Nothing in the present UN Charter impairs the inherent right of the State of Israel to defend itself against armed attack, --- or threat to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence against the State of Israel, --- from whatever aspect of Palestine it may be originating.
> 
> Quasi-recognition _(observer status)_ for the State of Palestine is based largely on the sympathy vote.   The lack of effective and independent governmental control has, in the past, served as a basis for the non-recognition of an entity as a sovereign state.   However, the Palestinian Leadership has asserted that the governmental institutions created under the Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO satisfy this criterion of statehood.  Even if this is true, it would again demonstrate the influence of Israel in the matter.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
Click to expand...





 Where ever Israel says it is inside the area delineated by the mandate of Palestine


Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

_ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

_ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

_ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

_ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.




 This land was acquired under international law of 1923 that granted the land to the Jews as their NATIONal home.



*The Palestine Mandate*
*The Council of the League of Nations:*
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire,* within such boundaries as may be fixed by them*; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers,* in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

*Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;* and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and

Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and

Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, *shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations*;

confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:


*ARTICLE 1.*
The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate.

*ART. 2.*
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

*ART. 3.*
The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.

*ART. 4.*
An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

*ART. 5.*
The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.

*ART. 6.*
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

*ART. 7.*
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.



 So you see the land was acquired under international treaty and international law as far back as 1923, but you will ignore this as it does not mention the arab muslims claims to land that was never theirs since 1099


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion. And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...




 Read the previous posts that supplied them, or are you too lazy or just obstinate


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can use that logic if you want; for all the good that it will do you.
> 
> You are correct in one respect.  The term "civil war" is not a term with a legal description.  The correct terms are "international armed conflicts" (IAC), and "non-international armed conflicts (NIAC);" as discussed in Posting #972.
> 
> Civil War is a historical term used to describe a conflict between factions holding the same citizenship; or, a war between citizens of the same country.  In this case we are talking about two factions in conflict holding the same Palestinian Citizenship.  The nature, dispute, or proximate cause of the "Civil War" _(emancipation, self-determination, immigration, cessions etc)_ has no being as to the character description.  The conflict between the two factions with the same citizenship, was aggravated by the external interference by the Arab League; creating an Article 51 Self-Defense Issue.  But you are free to alter the meaning of the term in any fashion you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Close but no cigar.
> 
> The "civil war" was a say so thing. Here is why.
> 
> What is the meaning of the "homeland of the Jews?" According to the Mandate* the Jews would immigrate to Palestine and get Palestinian citizenship. *They would live among the Palestinians and enjoy the rights of citizenship like living anywhere they liked *in Palestine.*
> 
> This is classic immigration. This is what the Mandate specified. This is not what happened.
> 
> The foreign Zionists got foreign money and created colonies. They imported Jews by the boatload to populate their colonies with the *stated goal* of taking over Palestine and creating a Jewish state. They had their own institutions and government, including their own military, that were separate from Palestine.
> 
> When the Zionist colonial project moved against the native population to create their Jewish state, it was not a "civil war."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The point of the discussion was the impact of the Palestinian Mantra.
> 
> MANTRA:
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim
> 
> 3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.​
> If, in fact, the Mantra is correct, then the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is of an NAIC complexion.  And that poses serious problems and consequences for the Palestinians.
> 
> But the fact that the State of Israel and the State of Palestine have signed treaties, and entered into international agreements, voiding the NAIC concept and making the IAC the rule of the day.  And so, the Mantra is wrong and invalid given what has evolved.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.​
> You have never shown where that is false.
Click to expand...




 I have as it was never arab muslim land from 1099 when they were evicted.  The mandate clearly delineates the land granted to the Jews as their NATIONal home



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

_ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

_ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

_ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

_ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, I think it is the other way around.  You did not read and comprehend.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened, as a cause for the conflict, or a prelude to self determination, both sides had Palestinian Citizenship from the exact same source of authority.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mantra says that all of the territory to which the Mandate applied is all one geo-political entity "_(Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south )_."  If that is true, then all the combatants reside in that single geo-political entity.  That means that it is a "non-international armed conflict (NIAC)."  If that is the case then --- there are many "alleged war crimes" _(Article 8 issues)_ that by definition could not have occur because one of the elements to the offense for most "war crimes" is that "the conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international armed conflict " (IAC).
> 
> However, I think that since the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the UN itself, allowed the State of Palestine to sign on to various treaties, and under treaty law, that can only be done by "states," then for all intent and purposes Israel is not part of Palestine, and Palestine is not part of Israel; and they are each recognized separately.  That make any conflict between the two an IAC.
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.  It also makes the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), as a government sponsored party, subject to the various Customary International Humanitarian Laws.  And that would also make the Palestinian Mantra invalid.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> This puts all the international terrorism and counter-terrorism documentation in play and applicable.​
> You still have not shown where Israel and Palestine are not in the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
Click to expand...





 But the mandate did


Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

_ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

_ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

_ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

_ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I already gave you all the links.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are just being obstinate.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you don't see the difference between the two recognitions, and you don't see the difference between NIAC and IAC, then your are just not capable of comprehending.
> 
> The two cannot be in the same place and simultaneously be an IAC.  And the two cannot be NIAC and still subject to War Crime (Article 8) Investigations by the ICC.  You simply cannot have both be true.  Israel and Palestine are separate recognitions and separate sovereignties; not co-located.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Posting #972 has the links to the Elements of the Offense, (See Article * War Crimes).   See A/RES/273 (III) (1949) for the recognition of Israel; and see A/RES/43/177 (1988) for the recognition of Palestine.  See the ICRC Resource Center for the definitions of a IAC and NAIC.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can believe what you want.  Your criteria is not the determining factor of any peaceful settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not what I "believe."
> 
> None of those define land, territory, or borders.
Click to expand...





 But the mandate does





Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:11


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

_ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

_ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

_ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

_ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
> and conditions (family) can do.
> 
> She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
> _
> Not to diminish her personal abilities and
> achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.
> 
> I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
> Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
> Then asked myself which education did she actually get?
> 
> _"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...
> 
> "The sky is the limit for Iqbal."
> 
> There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.
> 
> "But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."
> 
> Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_
> 
> Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She is a part of the regular Palestinian culture.
> 
> Palestine is not Saudi Arabia - women drive and women are educated.  In fact, they are well educated, but the culture still blocks them out of a lot of jobs - like we were 50 years ago: Palestinian women are well educated, but do not find good jobs
> 
> It's really sad she can't work in Lebanon, because she's a Palestinian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Palestinian friend of mine came to the US under some refugee deal. He became a US citizen. He owns a business. The problem is that his wife and two pre teen daughters live in Jordan. They are not even allowed to visit here. He has to go to Jordan to see his wife and kids.
> 
> That is the problem that Palestinians have. They get jerked around all over the world.
Click to expand...






 Because of their actions over the years that have shown them to be violent terrorists, and that mud has stuck on them all


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinans?

*Daoud Nassar*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Promoting violence & terror | PMW

PA-Fatah summer camp for kids: AK-47 automatic weapons and youth in military uniforms dancing with rifles 

Fatah-run Awdah TV program _Morning of my Homeland _reports on the fifth summer camp ‘Jerusalem in the Eyes of the Lion Cubs and Flowers of Palestine.’

The report begins by showing children wearing uniforms and carrying rifles performing a folk dance. The camp was eight days long and was organized by the PA National Security Forces. More than 150 children of “Martyrs” (_Shahids_) and prisoners participated in the camp. The camp took place in Sebastia in the Nablus district, in coordination with the Fatah youth movement ‘Institution for Lion Cubs and Flowers of Palestine’ (translated to English on their shirts as ‘Institution for Young Boys and Girls).


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinans?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **







 Why wont they admit that they have brought it all on themselves by their actions


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinans?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why wont they admit that they have brought it all on themselves by their actions
Click to expand...

Like what. That has been their farm since the Ottoman period.

It is the foreign assholes who make all the problems.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinans?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why wont they admit that they have brought it all on themselves by their actions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what. That has been their farm since the Ottoman period.
> 
> It is the foreign assholes who make all the problems.
Click to expand...





What does that prove other than you believe what the arab muslims say. What evidence is there of it being a farm owned by arab muslims since 1916( that is when the Ottomans were driven out of Palestine )  Maybe if they had not decided back then that they would resort to violent means to stop the birth of the Jewish NATIONal home then they would not be getting bothered.


 I agree the foreign arab muslim assholes that invaded the land from 1917 because they did not want anyone else to have it.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
Click to expand...

*(EXHIBIT)*




*EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
"The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around 
Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*

Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:   

The State of Israel exists
The State of Palestine exists
The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.  

There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:

Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.

Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries: 

First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.

Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_. 

*ARTICLE 3*

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

*The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Leila Sansour*


**
*This is the part that is really sad.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(EXHIBIT)*
> 
> View attachment 50186
> *EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
> "The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
> terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
> Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
> Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
> Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around
> Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:
> 
> The State of Israel exists
> The State of Palestine exists
> The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.
> 
> There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:
> 
> Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.
> 
> Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
> There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries:
> 
> First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
> But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_.
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
> The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Keep dancing, Rocco.


You did no answer the questions.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, yes I did.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?



Keep dancing, Rocco.

You did no answer the questions.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.






As stipulated in the Treaties.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.

View attachment 50195

As stipulated in the Treaties.

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Sansour*
> 
> 
> **
> *This is the part that is really sad.*
> 
> **







 And how does this answer the questions on the legality of Israel and its borders ?  Or is it another of your deflections


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.[/QUOTE]




 As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
Click to expand...





As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line[/QUOTE]
As the rules say it is illegal to acquire land in war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(EXHIBIT)*
> 
> View attachment 50186
> *EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
> "The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
> terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
> Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
> Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
> Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around
> Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:
> 
> The State of Israel exists
> The State of Palestine exists
> The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.
> 
> There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:
> 
> Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.
> 
> Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
> There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries:
> 
> First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
> But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_.
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
> The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
Indeed.

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh yes, the APG again.



P F Tinmore said:


> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.


*(COMMENT)*

What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?

Come-on really.  I could put together a group of former enemy officers and send the UN a telegram declaring independence over the United States.  That doesn't mean a thing.  You must have some sort of credibility and control over the territory.  APG, puppet to the Egyptians, and dissolved by them in 1959, had nothing of the sort.  

V/R
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
Click to expand...

As the rules say it is illegal to acquire land in war.[/QUOTE]




 They didn't they were given the land by the last owners, being Jordan and Egypt. remember that Isreal offered gaza and the west bank back and they refused to have anything to do with what they once owned.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well --- not exactly.



Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
Click to expand...


As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.

For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
_
For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control. 

We went over this in May of last year. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(EXHIBIT)*
> 
> View attachment 50186
> *EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
> "The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
> terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
> Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
> Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
> Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around
> Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:
> 
> The State of Israel exists
> The State of Palestine exists
> The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.
> 
> There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:
> 
> Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.
> 
> Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
> There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries:
> 
> First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
> But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_.
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
> The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
Click to expand...





 And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land making the above link null and void as evidence of a Palestinian state prior to 1988. So it did not have the rights that Israel had, and have lost repeatedly every war they have started


----------



## Art__Allm

Phoenall said:


> They didn't they were given the land by the last owners, being Jordan and Egypt.



What are you talking about?

The people that live on the land are the owners of the land, not the governments or corrupt politicians.
If you displace the native population, you commit a crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> (COMMENT)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.

That's good to know.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as most countries of the world, Israel establishes and defends it territory and extends its sovereign control over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(EXHIBIT)*
> 
> View attachment 50186
> *EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
> "The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
> terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
> Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
> Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
> Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around
> Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:
> 
> The State of Israel exists
> The State of Palestine exists
> The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.
> 
> There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:
> 
> Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.
> 
> Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
> There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries:
> 
> First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
> But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_.
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
> The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land making the above link null and void as evidence of a Palestinian state prior to 1988. So it did not have the rights that Israel had, and have lost repeatedly every war they have started
Click to expand...

And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land...​
I assume you have a link to that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
Click to expand...





As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line[/QUOTE]
As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
Of course you can post the link that says that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh yes, the APG again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Come-on really.  I could put together a group of former enemy officers and send the UN a telegram declaring independence over the United States.  That doesn't mean a thing.  You must have some sort of credibility and control over the territory.  APG, puppet to the Egyptians, and dissolved by them in 1959, had nothing of the sort.
> 
> V/R
> R
Click to expand...

What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?​
What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.



P F Tinmore said:


> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.


*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]

Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."

The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.

*2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *

•  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.

•  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.

•  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.

If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."

Seen in phrase:

•  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
•  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).

UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> 
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.​
Then why does everyone keep bringing this up when it is meaningless?

The Palestinians had more standing in 1948. They were not officially occupied until 1949.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory. If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the *territorial integrity* and political independence of Israel. [Article 2(4)]​
You always crack me up with that one.

You constantly bring it up.

Then you always duck the issue of Israel's territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.​
The political elites around Ramallah have one opinion. The general consensus is that Palestine is occupied.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Even sympathy votes can become very important; especially when they come in the official format and protocol.

A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988 _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine *

 *​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does everyone keep bringing this up when it is meaningless?
> 
> The Palestinians had more standing in 1948. They were not officially occupied until 1949.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

•  The West Bank was occupied by the Jordanian (1949); not Israelis.  And it was the Palestinians that voted to accept Jordanian annexation and rule.
•  The Gaza Strip was occupied by the Egyptians (1949); not Israelis.

Israel was defending its Declaration of Independence.  "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."  [United Nations Palestine Commission (A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948)]

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Even sympathy votes can become very important; especially when they come in the official format and protocol.
> 
> A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988 _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine *
> 
> *​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does everyone keep bringing this up when it is meaningless?
> 
> The Palestinians had more standing in 1948. They were not officially occupied until 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  The West Bank was occupied by the Jordanian (1949); not Israelis.  And it was the Palestinians that voted to accept Jordanian annexation and rule.
> •  The Gaza Strip was occupied by the Egyptians (1949); not Israelis.
> 
> Israel was defending its Declaration of Independence.  "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."  [United Nations Palestine Commission (A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948)]
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I already knew Israel's version. But thanks anyway.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore et al,

And you just demonstrated my point.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory. If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the *territorial integrity* and political independence of Israel. [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You always crack me up with that one.
> 
> You constantly bring it up.
> 
> Then you always duck the issue of Israel's territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As I said above, while the 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt; there are die hard Hostile Arab Palestinians that continue the justification of the armed conflict by subscribing to your unsupported theory.

Israel's territorial integrity and political independence extends to the limit of its sovereign control.  Everything the Palestinians bring-up is merely a territorial dispute.  Your position is the essential key position.  If the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian where to admit that the physical existence of the borders were real, then the justification for the continued struggle would be invalidated. (No reason to continue the struggle.)

One facet of the issue is --- In fact, the Palestinians don't actually know what they are looking for in terms of "proof of territorial integrity."  They have no way of articulating the required proof (don't know what to ask for).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Again, this is an example of the Palestinians trying to reframe the historical facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Even sympathy votes can become very important; especially when they come in the official format and protocol.
> 
> A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988 _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine *
> 
> *​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does everyone keep bringing this up when it is meaningless?
> 
> The Palestinians had more standing in 1948. They were not officially occupied until 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  The West Bank was occupied by the Jordanian (1949); not Israelis.  And it was the Palestinians that voted to accept Jordanian annexation and rule.
> •  The Gaza Strip was occupied by the Egyptians (1949); not Israelis.
> 
> Israel was defending its Declaration of Independence.  "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."  [United Nations Palestine Commission (A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948)]
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already knew Israel's version. But thanks anyway.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What is incorrect?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore et al,
> 
> And you just demonstrated my point.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory. If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the *territorial integrity* and political independence of Israel. [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You always crack me up with that one.
> 
> You constantly bring it up.
> 
> Then you always duck the issue of Israel's territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I said above, while the 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt; there are die hard Hostile Arab Palestinians that continue the justification of the armed conflict by subscribing to your unsupported theory.
> 
> Israel's territorial integrity and political independence extends to the limit of its sovereign control.  Everything the Palestinians bring-up is merely a territorial dispute.  Your position is the essential key position.  If the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian where to admit that the physical existence of the borders were real, then the justification for the continued struggle would be invalidated. (No reason to continue the struggle.)
> 
> One facet of the issue is --- In fact, the Palestinians don't actually know what they are looking for in terms of "proof of territorial integrity."  They have no way of articulating the required proof (don't know what to ask for).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinians that continue the justification of the armed conflict by subscribing to your unsupported theory.​
Every time I ask you to prove your point you duck the question.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Now you know that is not true.



P F Tinmore said:


> Every time I ask you to prove your point you duck the question.​


​*(COMMENT)*

I've answered directly every question you have put forth.  You don't like the answers.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is an example of the Palestinians trying to reframe the historical facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Even sympathy votes can become very important; especially when they come in the official format and protocol.
> 
> A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988 _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine *
> 
> *​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does everyone keep bringing this up when it is meaningless?
> 
> The Palestinians had more standing in 1948. They were not officially occupied until 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  The West Bank was occupied by the Jordanian (1949); not Israelis.  And it was the Palestinians that voted to accept Jordanian annexation and rule.
> •  The Gaza Strip was occupied by the Egyptians (1949); not Israelis.
> 
> Israel was defending its Declaration of Independence.  "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."  [United Nations Palestine Commission (A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948)]
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already knew Israel's version. But thanks anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is incorrect?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Not the question. How did it relate to my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now you know that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I ask you to prove your point you duck the question.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> I've answered directly every question you have put forth.  You don't like the answers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How and when did Israel acquire its territory again?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Humm --- This is a trick question.



P F Tinmore said:


> How and when did Israel acquire its territory again?


*(COMMENT)*

•  HOW:  The exercise of the "Right to Self-determination _(Article 1(2) of Charter)_," using the "Steps Preparatory to Independence," as recommended by the UN General Assembly, as a quasi-guide and template; and by expanding and extending of sovereignty over territory.

•  WHEN:

May 1948.
June 1967.
December 1967.
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Humm --- This is a trick question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How and when did Israel acquire its territory again?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  HOW:  The exercise of the "Right to Self-determination _(Article 1(2) of Charter)_," using the "Steps Preparatory to Independence," as recommended by the UN General Assembly, as a quasi-guide and template; and by expanding and extending of sovereignty over territory.
> 
> •  WHEN:
> 
> May 1948.
> June 1967.
> December 1967.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



The UN has no authority to transfer land.

Expanding territory (from what) by military force is illegal.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, not exactly correct.



P F Tinmore said:


> The UN has no authority to transfer land.


*(COMMENT)*

First, I did not say that the UN did anything, other than adopt the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."  I did not say the UN transferred anything.  I think I said the acquisition was achieved through the "Right of Self-Determination."



P F Tinmore said:


> Expanding territory (from what) by military force is illegal.


*(COMMENT)*

AS PREVIOUSLY STATED (Posting #1037), If one refers to the "UNTERM Database," one will notice the annotation that: "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
Seen in phrase:

• the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
• the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


​This maybe a logical extension of Chapter I, Article 2(4), of the Charter; but not specifically prohibited. This is not to be confused with acts of aggression (Wars of Conquest) without the justification of Article 51 conditions.  Acts of Aggression have largely gone undefined until 14 December 1974, in A/RES/29/3314.  Under the 1974 definition, the interpretation should be:  "No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful."

What the Charter said at the time of the 1967 Six-Day War, was:


"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."​
The Security Council made this momentous statement some *four (+) month after the fact* and after the conclusion of the War.  And then, it did not specifically address _(was ambiguous) _to which side  the new interpretation applied.  All the parties to the 1948 War thru 1973, had used military force in the attempt to achieve their political agenda.  However, there were three states that used military force to acquire territory.


•  Israel recaptured the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967.
•  Jordan captured the West Bank in 1949.
•  Egypt captured the Gaza Strip in 1949.​
Contrary to what the pro-Palestinians say, prior to November 1967, in international law, the acquisition of territory through force, especially by a victorious state in a war --- was customary.  It is how the Allied Powers made disposition of all the territories formerly subject to the Ottoman Empire.  Today, the international interpretation is different yet again.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, not exactly correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN has no authority to transfer land.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, I did not say that the UN did anything, other than adopt the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."  I did not say the UN transferred anything.  I think I said the acquisition was achieved through the "Right of Self-Determination."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Expanding territory (from what) by military force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> AS PREVIOUSLY STATED (Posting #1037), If one refers to the "UNTERM Database," one will notice the annotation that: "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> • the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> • the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This maybe a logical extension of Chapter I, Article 2(4), of the Charter; but not specifically prohibited. This is not to be confused with acts of aggression (Wars of Conquest) without the justification of Article 51 conditions.  Acts of Aggression have largely gone undefined until 14 December 1974, in A/RES/29/3314.  Under the 1974 definition, the interpretation should be:  "No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful."
> 
> What the Charter said at the time of the 1967 Six-Day War, was:
> 
> 
> "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."​
> The Security Council made this momentous statement some *four (+) month after the fact* and after the conclusion of the War.  And then, it did not specifically address _(was ambiguous) _to which side  the new interpretation applied.  All the parties to the 1948 War thru 1973, had used military force in the attempt to achieve their political agenda.  However, there were three states that used military force to acquire territory.
> 
> 
> •  Israel recaptured the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967.
> •  Jordan captured the West Bank in 1949.
> •  Egypt captured the Gaza Strip in 1949.​
> Contrary to what the pro-Palestinians say, prior to November 1967, in international law, the acquisition of territory through force, especially by a victorious state in a war --- was customary.  It is how the Allied Powers made disposition of all the territories formerly subject to the Ottoman Empire.  Today, the international interpretation is different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I think it is that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Let's narrow this down for a closer look.

Najd was an agricultural village of about three hundred people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It had grown to about seven hundred people by the end of the mandate period.

*Before* the beginning of the 1948 war, Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist forces driving the Palestinians out of their homes. In 1951 Israel built a Jewish only settlement on Najd land.

It is illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force and it is illegal to annex occupied territory.

So, how did Israel acquire that land?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, not exactly correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN has no authority to transfer land.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, I did not say that the UN did anything, other than adopt the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."  I did not say the UN transferred anything.  I think I said the acquisition was achieved through the "Right of Self-Determination."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Expanding territory (from what) by military force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> AS PREVIOUSLY STATED (Posting #1037), If one refers to the "UNTERM Database," one will notice the annotation that: "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> • the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> • the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This maybe a logical extension of Chapter I, Article 2(4), of the Charter; but not specifically prohibited. This is not to be confused with acts of aggression (Wars of Conquest) without the justification of Article 51 conditions.  Acts of Aggression have largely gone undefined until 14 December 1974, in A/RES/29/3314.  Under the 1974 definition, the interpretation should be:  "No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful."
> 
> What the Charter said at the time of the 1967 Six-Day War, was:
> 
> 
> "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."​
> The Security Council made this momentous statement some *four (+) month after the fact* and after the conclusion of the War.  And then, it did not specifically address _(was ambiguous) _to which side  the new interpretation applied.  All the parties to the 1948 War thru 1973, had used military force in the attempt to achieve their political agenda.  However, there were three states that used military force to acquire territory.
> 
> 
> •  Israel recaptured the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967.
> •  Jordan captured the West Bank in 1949.
> •  Egypt captured the Gaza Strip in 1949.​
> Contrary to what the pro-Palestinians say, prior to November 1967, in international law, the acquisition of territory through force, especially by a victorious state in a war --- was customary.  It is how the Allied Powers made disposition of all the territories formerly subject to the Ottoman Empire.  Today, the international interpretation is different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Let's narrow this down for a closer look.
> 
> Najd was an agricultural village of about three hundred people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It had grown to about seven hundred people by the end of the mandate period.
> 
> *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war, Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist forces driving the Palestinians out of their homes. In 1951 Israel built a Jewish only settlement on Najd land.
> 
> It is illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force and it is illegal to annex occupied territory.
> 
> So, how did Israel acquire that land?
Click to expand...

What grants Arab invaders a special exception from the arbitrary standards you insist Israel must adhere to?


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, not exactly correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN has no authority to transfer land.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, I did not say that the UN did anything, other than adopt the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."  I did not say the UN transferred anything.  I think I said the acquisition was achieved through the "Right of Self-Determination."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Expanding territory (from what) by military force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> AS PREVIOUSLY STATED (Posting #1037), If one refers to the "UNTERM Database," one will notice the annotation that: "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> • the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> • the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This maybe a logical extension of Chapter I, Article 2(4), of the Charter; but not specifically prohibited. This is not to be confused with acts of aggression (Wars of Conquest) without the justification of Article 51 conditions.  Acts of Aggression have largely gone undefined until 14 December 1974, in A/RES/29/3314.  Under the 1974 definition, the interpretation should be:  "No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful."
> 
> What the Charter said at the time of the 1967 Six-Day War, was:
> 
> 
> "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."​
> The Security Council made this momentous statement some *four (+) month after the fact* and after the conclusion of the War.  And then, it did not specifically address _(was ambiguous) _to which side  the new interpretation applied.  All the parties to the 1948 War thru 1973, had used military force in the attempt to achieve their political agenda.  However, there were three states that used military force to acquire territory.
> 
> 
> •  Israel recaptured the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967.
> •  Jordan captured the West Bank in 1949.
> •  Egypt captured the Gaza Strip in 1949.​
> Contrary to what the pro-Palestinians say, prior to November 1967, in international law, the acquisition of territory through force, especially by a victorious state in a war --- was customary.  It is how the Allied Powers made disposition of all the territories formerly subject to the Ottoman Empire.  Today, the international interpretation is different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Let's narrow this down for a closer look.
> 
> Najd was an agricultural village of about three hundred people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It had grown to about seven hundred people by the end of the mandate period.
> 
> *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war, Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist forces driving the Palestinians out of their homes. In 1951 Israel built a Jewish only settlement on Najd land.
> 
> It is illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force and it is illegal to annex occupied territory.
> 
> So, how did Israel acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What grants Arab invaders a special exception from the arbitrary standards you insist Israel must adhere to?
Click to expand...

?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Again, you are making a timeline mistake.  Let me chop a few trees down for you, so you can see better.



P F Tinmore said:


> I think it is that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Let's narrow this down for a closer look.
> 
> Najd was an agricultural village of about three hundred people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It had grown to about seven hundred people by the end of the mandate period.
> 
> *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war, Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist forces driving the Palestinians out of their homes. In 1951 Israel built a Jewish only settlement on Najd land.
> 
> It is illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force and it is illegal to annex occupied territory.
> 
> So, how did Israel acquire that land?


*(COMMENT)*

Implied Data:

•  *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war:
∆  The Arab-Israeli War began on 15 May 1948.
∆  There was no State of Israel at that time.  The Declaration of Independence was mid-night 14/15 May 1948, declared by cable.
∆  Mandate ends mid-night 14/15 May.​•  Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist:
∆  Zionist, at that time, were Palestinians under the Citizenship Order.​This specific event describes a conflict between two factions of the same territory, under the same citizenship.
√  It is an engagement between Arab and Jewish faction of the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.​Implied Accusations:

•  illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force
•  illegal to annex occupied territory
•  driving the Palestinians out of their homes​There was no declared state of Israel at that time.  So there was not "state" to accuse of violating Article 2(4) of the Charter.  At that time, the principle of "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war (force) would not be "enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967),"  nearly two decades into the future.

Article 2(4) did not apply to non-international conflicts (NIAC) (Palestinian Citizen on Palestinian Citizen).  Article 2(4) applied only to members of the UN.  That condition would not be true until 11 May 1949, a year after your "BEFORE" date.

Article 49, of the Geneva Convention does not apply.

Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.​At the time of the described event:

•  The was NO forcible transfer from "occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country."
√  No Arabs were transfer or deported outside the territory to which the Mandate applied.​Nothing was illegal under international law, as you imply; as you have described the event.

*(SIDE NOTE)*

Yes, I acknowledge that Professor Benny Morris (Israeli Historian) mentions the village Najd and the event.  I acknowledge that the Israel village of Sredot was built just south of that village.  In 1951, the State of Israel had been proclaimed and admitted to the UN.  Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.  Just as any city built in the US is infrastructure for Americans.  There is nothing unusual in that.

EXCERPT:  PLO-Negotiation Affair Department Version

Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote _(November 1947)_, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Challenger

RoccoR said:


> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.



This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, you are making a timeline mistake.  Let me chop a few trees down for you, so you can see better.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Let's narrow this down for a closer look.
> 
> Najd was an agricultural village of about three hundred people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It had grown to about seven hundred people by the end of the mandate period.
> 
> *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war, Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist forces driving the Palestinians out of their homes. In 1951 Israel built a Jewish only settlement on Najd land.
> 
> It is illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force and it is illegal to annex occupied territory.
> 
> So, how did Israel acquire that land?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Implied Data:
> 
> •  *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war:
> ∆  The Arab-Israeli War began on 15 May 1948.
> ∆  There was no State of Israel at that time.  The Declaration of Independence was mid-night 14/15 May 1948, declared by cable.
> ∆  Mandate ends mid-night 14/15 May.​•  Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist:
> ∆  Zionist, at that time, were Palestinians under the Citizenship Order.​This specific event describes a conflict between two factions of the same territory, under the same citizenship.
> √  It is an engagement between Arab and Jewish faction of the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.​Implied Accusations:
> 
> •  illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force
> •  illegal to annex occupied territory
> •  driving the Palestinians out of their homes​There was no declared state of Israel at that time.  So there was not "state" to accuse of violating Article 2(4) of the Charter.  At that time, the principle of "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war (force) would not be "enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967),"  nearly two decades into the future.
> 
> Article 2(4) did not apply to non-international conflicts (NIAC) (Palestinian Citizen on Palestinian Citizen).  Article 2(4) applied only to members of the UN.  That condition would not be true until 11 May 1949, a year after your "BEFORE" date.
> 
> Article 49, of the Geneva Convention does not apply.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.​At the time of the described event:
> 
> •  The was NO forcible transfer from "occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country."
> √  No Arabs were transfer or deported outside the territory to which the Mandate applied.​Nothing was illegal under international law, as you imply; as you have described the event.
> 
> *(SIDE NOTE)*
> 
> Yes, I acknowledge that Professor Benny Morris (Israeli Historian) mentions the village Najd and the event.  I acknowledge that the Israel village of Sredot was built just south of that village.  In 1951, the State of Israel had been proclaimed and admitted to the UN.  Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.  Just as any city built in the US is infrastructure for Americans.  There is nothing unusual in that.
> 
> EXCERPT:  PLO-Negotiation Affair Department Version
> 
> Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote _(November 1947)_, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice load of verbosity there, Rocco, but you didn't answer the question.

So, how did Israel acquire that land?


----------



## RoccoR

Challenger,  et al,

Well, let's see if we can help.

Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.

The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:

All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.

In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:

(a) States are juridically equal;

(b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;

(c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;

(d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;

(e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;

(f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”



Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCES)*

I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.

• PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
•  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:

∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
*History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
Unification of the Two Banks:

As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*

Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:

1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel. 
3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
R

•  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
•  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
•  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

one more time.



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice load of verbosity there, Rocco, but you didn't answer the question.
> 
> So, how did Israel acquire that land?


*(COMMENT)*

Exercised the Right of Self-determination, and established control over the territory.  See Posting #1049 where I answered the question directly.

You keep asking the question as if you expect to get a different answer.

Most Respectfully,
R

REPRINT:  Your question and the answer.



RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Humm --- This is a trick question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How and when did Israel acquire its territory again?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  HOW:  The exercise of the "Right to Self-determination _(Article 1(2) of Charter)_," using the "Steps Preparatory to Independence," as recommended by the UN General Assembly, as a quasi-guide and template; and by expanding and extending of sovereignty over territory.
> 
> •  WHEN:
> 
> May 1948.
> June 1967.
> December 1967.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> Well, let's see if we can help.
> 
> Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.
> 
> The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:
> 
> All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.
> 
> In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:
> 
> (a) States are juridically equal;
> 
> (b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;
> 
> (c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;
> 
> (d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;
> 
> (e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;
> 
> (f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.
> 
> • PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
> •  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:
> 
> ∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
> ∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
> ∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
> *History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
> Unification of the Two Banks:
> 
> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:
> 
> 1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
> 2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel.
> 3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
> •  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
> •  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​
Click to expand...

Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_. Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_)

Do you mean like this? From your link.

*(1) Occupation​*: When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
(i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
(ii) occupation should be* peaceful,* continuous.​


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> Well, let's see if we can help.
> 
> Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.
> 
> The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:
> 
> All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.
> 
> In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:
> 
> (a) States are juridically equal;
> 
> (b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;
> 
> (c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;
> 
> (d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;
> 
> (e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;
> 
> (f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.
> 
> • PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
> •  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:
> 
> ∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
> ∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
> ∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
> *History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
> Unification of the Two Banks:
> 
> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:
> 
> 1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
> 2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel.
> 3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
> •  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
> •  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_. Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_)
> 
> Do you mean like this? From your link.
> 
> *(1) Occupation*
> : When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) occupation should be* peaceful,* continuous.​
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You will notice that there are other examples that are closer to the situation.  

*(2) Annexation*: Annexation means to incorporate (territory) into the domain of a country. Annexation is a unilateral act where territory is seized by one state. It can also imply a certain measure of coercion, expansionism or unilateralism. *e.g 1961 annexation of Goa.* Annexation of Golan Heights by Israel in 1967.​Peacefulness can be a criteria if the occupation is a matter of aggression.  However, the Palestinians were not the aggrieved party at the time of occupation.  The aggrieved parties were Egypt and Jordan.  And the settlement was made by treaty.  

I recommend you read the set of PCIJ paper, specifically 3.1.2. Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity .  It will give you some insight into the depth and breadth of the topic.

Also, the territory inside the maintained borders of Israel have been peaceful for a very significant period.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are outside the maintained border; largely in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Israel has not stated any intention of annexing either areas.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> Well, let's see if we can help.
> 
> Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.
> 
> The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:
> 
> All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.
> 
> In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:
> 
> (a) States are juridically equal;
> 
> (b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;
> 
> (c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;
> 
> (d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;
> 
> (e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;
> 
> (f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.
> 
> • PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
> •  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:
> 
> ∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
> ∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
> ∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
> *History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
> Unification of the Two Banks:
> 
> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:
> 
> 1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
> 2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel.
> 3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
> •  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
> •  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_. Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_)
> 
> Do you mean like this? From your link.
> 
> *(1) Occupation*
> : When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) occupation should be* peaceful,* continuous.​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that there are other examples that are closer to the situation.
> 
> *(2) Annexation*: Annexation means to incorporate (territory) into the domain of a country. Annexation is a unilateral act where territory is seized by one state. It can also imply a certain measure of coercion, expansionism or unilateralism. *e.g 1961 annexation of Goa.* Annexation of Golan Heights by Israel in 1967.​Peacefulness can be a criteria if the occupation is a matter of aggression.  However, the Palestinians were not the aggrieved party at the time of occupation.  The aggrieved parties were Egypt and Jordan.  And the settlement was made by treaty.
> 
> I recommend you read the set of PCIJ paper, specifically 3.1.2. Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity .  It will give you some insight into the depth and breadth of the topic.
> 
> Also, the territory inside the maintained borders of Israel have been peaceful for a very significant period.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are outside the maintained border; largely in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Israel has not stated any intention of annexing either areas.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Peacefulness can be a criteria if the occupation is a matter of aggression. However, the Palestinians were not the aggrieved party at the time of occupation.​
Oh, and the 750,000 Palestinians kicked out of their homes were not aggrieved?


BTW, Internationally recognized as Syrian territory, the Golan Heights has been occupied and administered by Israel since 1967.[1] It was captured during the 1967 Six-Day War, establishing the Purple Line.[11]

Golan Heights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> Well, let's see if we can help.
> 
> Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.
> 
> The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:
> 
> All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.
> 
> In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:
> 
> (a) States are juridically equal;
> 
> (b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;
> 
> (c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;
> 
> (d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;
> 
> (e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;
> 
> (f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.
> 
> • PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
> •  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:
> 
> ∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
> ∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
> ∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
> *History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
> Unification of the Two Banks:
> 
> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:
> 
> 1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
> 2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel.
> 3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
> •  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
> •  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_. Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_)
> 
> Do you mean like this? From your link.
> 
> *(1) Occupation*
> : When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) occupation should be* peaceful,* continuous.​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that there are other examples that are closer to the situation.
> 
> *(2) Annexation*: Annexation means to incorporate (territory) into the domain of a country. Annexation is a unilateral act where territory is seized by one state. It can also imply a certain measure of coercion, expansionism or unilateralism. *e.g 1961 annexation of Goa.* Annexation of Golan Heights by Israel in 1967.​Peacefulness can be a criteria if the occupation is a matter of aggression.  However, the Palestinians were not the aggrieved party at the time of occupation.  The aggrieved parties were Egypt and Jordan.  And the settlement was made by treaty.
> 
> I recommend you read the set of PCIJ paper, specifically 3.1.2. Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity .  It will give you some insight into the depth and breadth of the topic.
> 
> Also, the territory inside the maintained borders of Israel have been peaceful for a very significant period.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are outside the maintained border; largely in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Israel has not stated any intention of annexing either areas.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peacefulness can be a criteria if the occupation is a matter of aggression. However, the Palestinians were not the aggrieved party at the time of occupation.​
> Oh, and the 750,000 Palestinians kicked out of their homes were not aggrieved?
> 
> 
> BTW, Internationally recognized as Syrian territory, the Golan Heights has been occupied and administered by Israel since 1967.[1] It was captured during the 1967 Six-Day War, establishing the Purple Line.[11]
> 
> Golan Heights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...



On June 19, 1967, the National Unity Government [of Israel] voted unanimously *to return the Sinai to Egypt and the Golan Heights to Syria in return for peace agreements*

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, you are making a timeline mistake.  Let me chop a few trees down for you, so you can see better.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is that we cannot see the forest for the trees. Let's narrow this down for a closer look.
> 
> Najd was an agricultural village of about three hundred people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It had grown to about seven hundred people by the end of the mandate period.
> 
> *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war, Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist forces driving the Palestinians out of their homes. In 1951 Israel built a Jewish only settlement on Najd land.
> 
> It is illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force and it is illegal to annex occupied territory.
> 
> So, how did Israel acquire that land?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Implied Data:
> 
> •  *Before* the beginning of the 1948 war:
> ∆  The Arab-Israeli War began on 15 May 1948.
> ∆  There was no State of Israel at that time.  The Declaration of Independence was mid-night 14/15 May 1948, declared by cable.
> ∆  Mandate ends mid-night 14/15 May.​•  Najd was attacked and occupied by Zionist:
> ∆  Zionist, at that time, were Palestinians under the Citizenship Order.​This specific event describes a conflict between two factions of the same territory, under the same citizenship.
> √  It is an engagement between Arab and Jewish faction of the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.​Implied Accusations:
> 
> •  illegal to acquire territory through the threat or use of force
> •  illegal to annex occupied territory
> •  driving the Palestinians out of their homes​There was no declared state of Israel at that time.  So there was not "state" to accuse of violating Article 2(4) of the Charter.  At that time, the principle of "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war (force) would not be "enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967),"  nearly two decades into the future.
> 
> Article 2(4) did not apply to non-international conflicts (NIAC) (Palestinian Citizen on Palestinian Citizen).  Article 2(4) applied only to members of the UN.  That condition would not be true until 11 May 1949, a year after your "BEFORE" date.
> 
> Article 49, of the Geneva Convention does not apply.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.​At the time of the described event:
> 
> •  The was NO forcible transfer from "occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country."
> √  No Arabs were transfer or deported outside the territory to which the Mandate applied.​Nothing was illegal under international law, as you imply; as you have described the event.
> 
> *(SIDE NOTE)*
> 
> Yes, I acknowledge that Professor Benny Morris (Israeli Historian) mentions the village Najd and the event.  I acknowledge that the Israel village of Sredot was built just south of that village.  In 1951, the State of Israel had been proclaimed and admitted to the UN.  Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.  Just as any city built in the US is infrastructure for Americans.  There is nothing unusual in that.
> 
> EXCERPT:  PLO-Negotiation Affair Department Version
> 
> Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote _(November 1947)_, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I have to say Rocco I do admire how you are able to split-hairs multiple times in one go......trouble is,it distorts the facts of the matter..steve


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> Well, let's see if we can help.
> 
> Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.
> 
> The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:
> 
> All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.
> 
> In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:
> 
> (a) States are juridically equal;
> 
> (b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;
> 
> (c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;
> 
> (d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;
> 
> (e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;
> 
> (f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.
> 
> • PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
> •  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:
> 
> ∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
> ∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
> ∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
> *History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
> Unification of the Two Banks:
> 
> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:
> 
> 1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
> 2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel.
> 3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
> •  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
> •  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_. Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_)
> 
> Do you mean like this? From your link.
> 
> *(1) Occupation*
> : When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) occupation should be* peaceful,* continuous.​
Click to expand...

Always outstanding comment Tinnie..Respect to you...steve


----------



## Challenger

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> Well, let's see if we can help.
> 
> Sovereignty is established by the nation that will place a claim sovereignty over a specific territory.  By claim, we mean, Israel states its intention to extend and defense it exclusive jurisdiction.
> 
> The [United Nations] Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members” (UN Charter, Article 2.1). This principle was elaborated in the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law (GA Res 2625(XXV)(1970)) in the following terms:
> 
> All States enjoy sovereign equality. They have equal rights and duties and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of an economic, social, political or other nature.
> 
> In particular, sovereign equality includes the following elements:
> 
> (a) States are juridically equal;
> 
> (b) Each state enjoys the rights inherent in full sovereignty;
> 
> (c) Each state has the duty to respect the personality of other states;
> 
> (d) The territorial integrity and political independence of the state are inviolable;
> 
> (e) Each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems;
> 
> (f) Each state has the duty to comply fully and in good faith with its international obligations and to live in peace with other states.”
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any village, constructed inside the territory to which Israel claimed sovereignty (inside the Armistice Lines), is infrastructure for Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Can you provide a link or other information, I could look up as to when and how exactly Israel claimed sovereignty over the territory it had captured and occupied by 1948-9?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> I generally start my my research from the standpoint of what the Arab Palestinians believe to be true.
> 
> • PLO-NAD (Borders)​It is also important to understand what was discussed.  Included in the recognition process, and enclosed as part of A/RES/273 (III) 11 MAY 1949, were TWO important notions and references:  1)  The Declaration and Explanations, and 2) implementation of the of resolutions [A/RES/181 (II) and A/RES/194 (III)]:
> •  _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947  and 11 December 1948  and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee *in respect of the implementation* of the said resolutions.  Including the State of Israel, in its 1949 form, which Mr. C. MALIK (Lebanese Representative) brought to the floor of the Assembly for examination and discussion, and which Lebanon _(and other members of the Arab League)_ believed were in direct contravention to the recommendations of the United Nations in at least 3 important respects:
> 
> ∆  In its attitude on the problem of Arab refugees,
> ∆  On the delimitation of its territorial boundaries,
> ∆  On the question of Jerusalem.​And it is important to the discussion on the position of the outcome of the Armistice in 1949:
> *History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan*
> Unification of the Two Banks:
> 
> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_.  Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_) _(See complete citation below)_ is inherent to the government of Israel.  It is not awarded by an outside authority and it is not a contract between authorities.   Sovereignty:
> 
> 1) It is that influence of governance that extends supreme dominion, exclusive authority, and jurisdiction over a territory.
> 2) The supreme political authority of the Independent State of Israel.
> 3) A sovereign state "is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign State or to the external authority of any foreign power; without its consent.​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •  Brahm, Eric. "Sovereignty." _Beyond Intractability_. Eds. Guy Burgess and Heidi Burgess. Conflict Information Consortium, University of Colorado, Boulder. Posted: September 2004 <Sovereignty | Beyond Intractability>.
> •  Posted 24th November 2012 by abdul qadir_ Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty. _International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty,
> •  _State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty_, Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM, Professor of Law, Beirut Arab University, Faculty of Law and Political Science​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has established a physical border, and performs daily protection of that border _*(Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty)*_. Sovereignty (Eric Brahm September 2004, _Beyond Intractability_)
> 
> Do you mean like this? From your link.
> 
> *(1) Occupation*
> : When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> (ii) occupation should be* peaceful,* continuous.​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that there are other examples that are closer to the situation.
> 
> *(2) Annexation*: Annexation means to incorporate (territory) into the domain of a country. Annexation is a unilateral act where territory is seized by one state. It can also imply a certain measure of coercion, expansionism or unilateralism. *e.g 1961 annexation of Goa.* Annexation of Golan Heights by Israel in 1967.​Peacefulness can be a criteria if the occupation is a matter of aggression.  However, the Palestinians were not the aggrieved party at the time of occupation.  The aggrieved parties were Egypt and Jordan.  And the settlement was made by treaty.
> 
> I recommend you read the set of PCIJ paper, specifically 3.1.2. Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity .  It will give you some insight into the depth and breadth of the topic.
> 
> Also, the territory inside the maintained borders of Israel have been peaceful for a very significant period.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians are outside the maintained border; largely in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Israel has not stated any intention of annexing either areas.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


OK, so when did Zionist Israel formally annex the territory it siezed/occupied in 1948?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
> and conditions (family) can do.
> 
> She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
> _
> Not to diminish her personal abilities and
> achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.
> 
> I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
> Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
> Then asked myself which education did she actually get?
> 
> _"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...
> 
> "The sky is the limit for Iqbal."
> 
> There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.
> 
> "But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."
> 
> Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_
> 
> Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She is a part of the regular Palestinian culture.
> 
> Palestine is not Saudi Arabia - women drive and women are educated.  In fact, they are well educated, but the culture still blocks them out of a lot of jobs - like we were 50 years ago: Palestinian women are well educated, but do not find good jobs
> 
> It's really sad she can't work in Lebanon, because she's a Palestinian
Click to expand...


This example is outstanding but not 'regular palestinian' culture-if exists at all.

What's palestinian about driving a car or graduating from a Qatar brunch of a Western university? Were there Palestinian universities 100-150 years ago?


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
> and conditions (family) can do.
> 
> She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
> _
> Not to diminish her personal abilities and
> achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.
> 
> I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
> Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
> Then asked myself which education did she actually get?
> 
> _"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...
> 
> "The sky is the limit for Iqbal."
> 
> There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.
> 
> "But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."
> 
> Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_
> 
> Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She is a part of the regular Palestinian culture.
> 
> Palestine is not Saudi Arabia - women drive and women are educated.  In fact, they are well educated, but the culture still blocks them out of a lot of jobs - like we were 50 years ago: Palestinian women are well educated, but do not find good jobs
> 
> It's really sad she can't work in Lebanon, because she's a Palestinian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This example is outstanding but not 'regular palestinian' culture-if exists at all.
> 
> What's palestinian about driving a car or graduating from a Qatar brunch of a Western university? Were there Palestinian universities 100-150 years ago?
Click to expand...

Where were Jewish ones ???????


----------



## rylah

How convenient- the "who're balestinians" turns back to the Jews.
Maybe because without the Jews those who call themselves balestinians would be just Arabs.

Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> How convenient- the "who're balestinians" turns back to the Jews.
> Maybe because without the Jews those who call themselves balestinians would be just Arabs.
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.


Well the first recognised Palestinian University Birzeit(BZU) was established at Rumullah sic in 1924,today there are 8 Universities in Palestine,the first Jewish University was opened in 1888,of which both Palestinians,Jews and later Turks attended.

The second Jewish University opened in 1935.

As a footnote for the size of their population Palestinians have one of the highest matriculation rates to University in the world.There are a lot of highly educated Palestinians working in the Gulf States,Europe,Australasia,Asia and even Israel.

Your attempt to insult the Palestinian people is an insult and a vain attempt at Blatant Racism.....in a word "They are Smarter than You Moron"


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You for this interesting example of what the right education
> and conditions (family) can do.
> 
> She is indeed a talented person, a prodigy in biochemistry and mathematics. _"By the age of 13, Iqbal had not only learnt to drive, she had caught the eye of Lebanon's education minister, who helped her to secure a medical scholarship in Qatar."
> _
> Not to diminish her personal abilities and
> achievements, but that's not a 'palestinian' culture.
> 
> I asked myself is it a regular muslim, palestinian family she grew in?
> Is it regular for women to drive, and especially this age in that community?
> Then asked myself which education did she actually get?
> 
> _"And this year, at 20, she became not only the youngest ever medical graduate from Cornell University's Qatar branch, but possibly the youngest Arab doctor ever...
> 
> "The sky is the limit for Iqbal."
> 
> There is just one problem: Iqbal cannot work as a doctor in Lebanon, the country of her birth. "My dream is to come back to do something for the Palestinian refugees in the camps, even by opening a free clinic for them," she says.
> 
> "But if you're a Palestinian doctor, you're not allowed to work in public hospitals."
> 
> Palestinian child prodigy becomes doctor at age 20 | The National_
> 
> Again I'm always happy to see young people reach success, especially when the intent is good. But what bout some native Palestinian culture those tribes maintain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She is a part of the regular Palestinian culture.
> 
> Palestine is not Saudi Arabia - women drive and women are educated.  In fact, they are well educated, but the culture still blocks them out of a lot of jobs - like we were 50 years ago: Palestinian women are well educated, but do not find good jobs
> 
> It's really sad she can't work in Lebanon, because she's a Palestinian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This example is outstanding but not 'regular palestinian' culture-if exists at all.
> 
> What's palestinian about driving a car or graduating from a Qatar brunch of a Western university? Were there Palestinian universities 100-150 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where were Jewish ones ???????
Click to expand...




theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How convenient- the "who're balestinians" turns back to the Jews.
> Maybe because without the Jews those who call themselves balestinians would be just Arabs.
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the first recognised Palestinian University Birzeit(BZU) was established at Rumullah sic in 1924,today there are 8 Universities in Palestine,the first Jewish University was opened in 1888,of which both Palestinians,Jews and later Turks attended.
> 
> The second Jewish University opened in 1935.
> 
> As a footnote for the size of their population Palestinians have one of the highest matriculation rates to University in the world.There are a lot of highly educated Palestinians working in the Gulf States,Europe,Australasia,Asia and even Israel.
> 
> Your attempt to insult the Palestinian people is an insult and a vain attempt at Blatant Racism.....in a word "They are Smarter than You Moron"
Click to expand...



Jewish universities are Yeshivas that exited for centuries in Israel and in the exile. A university is not a Jewish and definitely not a balestinian invention or culture.
I would't show Einstein as an example of the Jewish culture.

Still waiting for that native 'PALESTINIAN' culture those tribes still maintain.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Jewish universities are Yeshivas that exited for centuries in Israel and in the exile. A university is not a Jewish and definitely not a balestinian invention or culture.
> I would't show Einstein as an example of the Jewish culture.
> 
> Still waiting for that native 'PALESTINIAN' culture those tribes still maintain.


There was never an "exile".  That was a myth.

Who are the Palestinian's?

They are the direct decendents of the Israelites.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> How convenient- the "who're balestinians" turns back to the Jews.
> Maybe because without the Jews those who call themselves balestinians would be just Arabs.
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.


Well the first recognised Palestinian University Birzeit(BZU) was established at Rumullah sic in 1924,today there are 8 Universities in Palestine,the first Jewish University was opened in 1888,of which both Palestinians,Jews and later Turks attended.

The second Jewish University opened in 1935.

As a footnote for the size of their population Palestinians have one of the highest matriculation rates to University in the world.There are a lot of highly educated Palestinians working in the Gulf States,Europe,Australasia,Asia and even Israel.

Your attempt to insult the Palestinian people is an insult and a vain attempt at Blatant Racism.....in a word "They are Smarter than You Moron"


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish universities are Yeshivas that exited for centuries in Israel and in the exile. A university is not a Jewish and definitely not a balestinian invention or culture.
> I would't show Einstein as an example of the Jewish culture.
> 
> Still waiting for that native 'PALESTINIAN' culture those tribes still maintain.
> 
> 
> 
> There was never an "exile".  That was a myth.
> 
> Who are the Palestinian's?
> 
> They are the direct decendents of the Israelites.
Click to expand...


How so if  Arafat claimed them to be Jebusites, the Palestinian TV claims they have direct Saudi, Egyptian and Syrian roots?

How can they be Israelites (Jacob) if they themselves consider themselves Ishmaelites?


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How convenient- the "who're balestinians" turns back to the Jews.
> Maybe because without the Jews those who call themselves balestinians would be just Arabs.
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the first recognised Palestinian University Birzeit(BZU) was established at Rumullah sic in 1924,today there are 8 Universities in Palestine,the first Jewish University was opened in 1888,of which both Palestinians,Jews and later Turks attended.
> 
> The second Jewish University opened in 1935.
> 
> As a footnote for the size of their population Palestinians have one of the highest matriculation rates to University in the world.There are a lot of highly educated Palestinians working in the Gulf States,Europe,Australasia,Asia and even Israel.
> 
> Your attempt to insult the Palestinian people is an insult and a vain attempt at Blatant Racism.....in a word "They are Smarter than You Moron"
Click to expand...


Copy pasting yourself?? so much love You've got...
I've already addressed this- a university is a western culture not palestinian.
As much as Einstein isn't an icon of the Jewish culture.

Anything on topic?

what's the distinct Palestinian culture? Not Jewish, not Arabic but Palestinian?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> How so if  Arafat claimed them to be Jebusites, the Palestinian TV claims they have direct Saudi, Egyptian and Syrian roots?
> 
> How can they be Israelites (Jacob) if they themselves consider themselves Ishmaelites?


Well, you see, it's like this...

_Apart from enslaved prisoners, *the population of Judea continued to live on their lands, even after the destruction of the second temple* [in 70 AD]. Some converted to Christianity in the 4th century, while the majority embraced Islam during the 7th century Arab conquest.

Most Zionist thinkers were aware of this: Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later president of Israel, and David Ben Gurion, its first prime minister, accepted it as late as 1929, the year of the great Palestinian revolt. Both stated on several occasions that *the peasants of Palestine were the descendants
of the inhabitants of ancient Judea*.
- *Schlomo Sand*_​


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so if  Arafat claimed them to be Jebusites, the Palestinian TV claims they have direct Saudi, Egyptian and Syrian roots?
> 
> How can they be Israelites (Jacob) if they themselves consider themselves Ishmaelites?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you see, it's like this...
> 
> _Apart from enslaved prisoners, *the population of Judea continued to live on their lands, even after the destruction of the second temple* [in 70 AD]. Some converted to Christianity in the 4th century, while the majority embraced Islam during the 7th century Arab conquest.
> 
> Most Zionist thinkers were aware of this: Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later president of Israel, and David Ben Gurion, its first prime minister, accepted it as late as 1929, the year of the great Palestinian revolt. Both stated on several occasions that *the peasants of Palestine were the descendants
> of the inhabitants of ancient Judea*.
> - *Schlomo Sand*_​
Click to expand...


This is not a scientific study.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> This is not a scientific study.


And why is that?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so if  Arafat claimed them to be Jebusites, the Palestinian TV claims they have direct Saudi, Egyptian and Syrian roots?
> 
> How can they be Israelites (Jacob) if they themselves consider themselves Ishmaelites?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you see, it's like this...
> 
> _Apart from enslaved prisoners, *the population of Judea continued to live on their lands, even after the destruction of the second temple* [in 70 AD]. Some converted to Christianity in the 4th century, while the majority embraced Islam during the 7th century Arab conquest.
> 
> Most Zionist thinkers were aware of this: Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later president of Israel, and David Ben Gurion, its first prime minister, accepted it as late as 1929, the year of the great Palestinian revolt. Both stated on several occasions that *the peasants of Palestine were the descendants
> of the inhabitants of ancient Judea*.
> - *Schlomo Sand*_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a scientific study.
Click to expand...


Correct, it's historical fact.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.



I could just as easily say, "Still waiting for some original, native Israeli culture still maintained for thousands of years."  Palestinian "culture" is older than modern Israeli "culture"


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could just as easily say, "Still waiting for some original, native Israeli culture still maintained for thousands of years."  Palestinian "culture" is older than modern Israeli "culture"
Click to expand...

 

You could actually show me some native Palestinian culture, SHOULD BE EASIER since they claim to have lived here for 2000, but You can't.
And I would show the Jewish examples easily, but here this is off-topic.

Only shows my point further- Palestinians is a symptom of  modern Israel.
They are Arabs, have arabic culture, religion. Their false identity and the name they chose points directly at the Jewish history- not Greek- Palestinian.


----------



## rylah

How can they live there for 2000 yrs and still not be able to pronounce "Palestine"? Can the Jews pronounce it? -of course


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could just as easily say, "Still waiting for some original, native Israeli culture still maintained for thousands of years."  Palestinian "culture" is older than modern Israeli "culture"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You could actually show me some native Palestinian culture, SHOULD BE EASIER since they claim to have lived here for 2000, but You can't.
> And I would show the Jewish examples easily, but here this is off-topic.
> 
> Only shows my point further- Palestinians is a symptom of  modern Israel.
> They are Arabs, have arabic culture, religion. Their false identity and the name they chose points directly at the Jewish history- not Greek- Palestinian.
Click to expand...


Falafel, Israel's "national dish" is Palestinian and was around in ancient Egypt. I've never said you can't find examples of Judaism in the region, it was one of many sects in Greco-Roman Palestine.

English people once worshipped pagan Gods, followed a pagan culture, spoke Norse and Anglo-saxon. Just because we became a Christian nation, it didn't mean we developed a false identity. If anything "Israeli" is a false identity since there's no link between the semi-mythical "Kingdom of Israel" and the modern Jewish European colonial society that calls itself "Israeli"


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for some original, native Palestinian culture those tribes still maintain for thousands of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could just as easily say, "Still waiting for some original, native Israeli culture still maintained for thousands of years."  Palestinian "culture" is older than modern Israeli "culture"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You could actually show me some native Palestinian culture, SHOULD BE EASIER since they claim to have lived here for 2000, but You can't.
> And I would show the Jewish examples easily, but here this is off-topic.
> 
> Only shows my point further- Palestinians is a symptom of  modern Israel.
> They are Arabs, have arabic culture, religion. Their false identity and the name they chose points directly at the Jewish history- not Greek- Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Falafel, Israel's "national dish" is Palestinian and was around in ancient Egypt. I've never said you can't find examples of Judaism in the region, it was one of many sects in Greco-Roman Palestine.
> 
> English people once worshipped pagan Gods, followed a pagan culture, spoke Norse and Anglo-saxon. Just because we became a Christian nation, it didn't mean we developed a false identity.
Click to expand...


And again You explain Palestinians using Jewish history.

How falafel is Palestinian if it was in ancient Egypt?
So Palestinian culture is originally Egyptian?

Off-topic:
*Falafel isn't Israeli's national dish- Matzot, apple with honey, ears of haman, sacrificial and ceremonial dishes are the national dishes.

Yet English people still have distinct language and culture that  can be seen in their version of christianity. And many Englishmen are still practicing those pagan rituals. You see, even though they became christians (pseudo jews) we can see the traces of their past culture that connects them to a specific land thousands of years back-folklore.
Same with the Jews.

What do we see underneath the Islam of balestinians? 
Is there anything but the Arab culture?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so if  Arafat claimed them to be Jebusites, the Palestinian TV claims they have direct Saudi, Egyptian and Syrian roots?
> 
> How can they be Israelites (Jacob) if they themselves consider themselves Ishmaelites?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you see, it's like this...
> 
> _Apart from enslaved prisoners, *the population of Judea continued to live on their lands, even after the destruction of the second temple* [in 70 AD]. Some converted to Christianity in the 4th century, while the majority embraced Islam during the 7th century Arab conquest.
> 
> Most Zionist thinkers were aware of this: Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later president of Israel, and David Ben Gurion, its first prime minister, accepted it as late as 1929, the year of the great Palestinian revolt. Both stated on several occasions that *the peasants of Palestine were the descendants
> of the inhabitants of ancient Judea*.
> - *Schlomo Sand*_​
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  et al,

Now this is a profound statement.  Probably not very relevant; but, none the less, interesting trivia.



Billo_Really said:


> Who are the Palestinian's?
> 
> They are the direct descendants of the Israelites.


*(COMMENT)*

There is great probability that at least some portion of the Arab Palestinians of today, might have some linage back (ancestry) to the beginning, in the time of the original Monarchy, in the Kingdom of Israel _([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant']Ark of the Covenant Age[/URL] Kingdom of the ancient Levant --- Israel and Judah)_, more than 3000 years ago _[the Israelite Kingdoms of Saul (Tribe of Benjamin), David (Tribe of Judah) and Solomon (Son of Bathsheba)]_.    

The Empire of Akkadian civilization, late 24th century BCE (4000 years ago) was the first Empire of the World and was built by King Sargon.  This ancient empire once controlled all the Middle Eastern territories from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, from the Caucasus Mountains and the Caspian Sea in the north to the northern desert frontier of today's Saudi Arabia _(Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Israel, and Palestine)_.  This was a Millennium before the establishment of Israel and Judah.  The most prominent and accepted polytheism of the day were Sumerian Religions and the three basic Gods _(An, Enlil and Enki)_.

It is probably more correct to say that *ALL the people from that region* --- that part of the ancient world --- *have a common ancestry* in the Dynasty of Akkad, and the First Semitic Empire of Sargon the Great _(≈2400 –2000 BCE)(made a little more famous by the fictional Akkadians --- Scorpion King and Conan the Barbarian)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

You can copy-paste Your Shlomo guy forever but this is just a
political-journalistic book. Not a scientific history study.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/books/24jews.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> You can copy-paste Your Shlomo guy forever but this is just a
> political-journalistic book. Not a scientific history study.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/books/24jews.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


So is it safe to assume, you're Shlomo-phobic?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can copy-paste Your Shlomo guy forever but this is just a
> political-journalistic book. Not a scientific history study.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/books/24jews.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> 
> 
> So is it safe to assume, you're Shlomo-phobic?
Click to expand...



Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.

Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.


What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
Why is it so difficult to find??


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

Challenger,  et al,

I don't think I know the correct answer.



Challenger said:


> OK, so when did Zionist Israel formally annex the territory it siezed/occupied in 1948?


*(COMMENT)*

I know it has been recognized as absorbed.  But I don't know the particulars.

The Question of Palestine and the United Nations (Page 11)

The Commission tried to resolve three major issues: the size of the territories, the refugees and the status of Jerusalem. Through separate talks with Arab States (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) and Israel at a conference in Lausanne in April 1949, it obtained a protocol, signed separately by each side, agreeing to use the boundaries established in the partition resolution as a basis for discussion. However, the 1949 meetings of the Commission ended inconclusively, with the Arab States pressing for the refugees to be returned as a first step, and with Israel insisting that the territorial question be given priority.​
An Event:

On 20 FEB 1963:  Maki, Herut, Mapam and Ahdut Ha'avoda factions presented four bills to end the Military Government in the occupied territories, as well as the annulment or amendment of the State of Emergency Regulations. The proposals were dismissed.​
So at one point, there were still "Occupied Territories in 1963.  I just cannot find a reference for them.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can answer the question.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I know the correct answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so when did Zionist Israel formally annex the territory it siezed/occupied in 1948?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I know it has been recognized as absorbed.  But I don't know the particulars.
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations (Page 11)
> 
> The Commission tried to resolve three major issues: the size of the territories, the refugees and the status of Jerusalem. Through separate talks with Arab States (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) and Israel at a conference in Lausanne in April 1949, it obtained a protocol, signed separately by each side, agreeing to use the boundaries established in the partition resolution as a basis for discussion. However, the 1949 meetings of the Commission ended inconclusively, with the Arab States pressing for the refugees to be returned as a first step, and with Israel insisting that the territorial question be given priority.​
> An Event:
> 
> On 20 FEB 1963:  Maki, Herut, Mapam and Ahdut Ha'avoda factions presented four bills to end the Military Government in the occupied territories, as well as the annulment or amendment of the State of Emergency Regulations. The proposals were dismissed.​
> So at one point, there were still "Occupied Territories in 1963.  I just cannot find a reference for them.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can answer the question.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I know it has been recognized as absorbed. But I don't know the particulars.​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  et al,
> 
> I don't think I know the correct answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so when did Zionist Israel formally annex the territory it siezed/occupied in 1948?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I know it has been recognized as absorbed.  But I don't know the particulars.
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations (Page 11)
> 
> The Commission tried to resolve three major issues: the size of the territories, the refugees and the status of Jerusalem. Through separate talks with Arab States (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) and Israel at a conference in Lausanne in April 1949, it obtained a protocol, signed separately by each side, agreeing to use the boundaries established in the partition resolution as a basis for discussion. However, the 1949 meetings of the Commission ended inconclusively, with the Arab States pressing for the refugees to be returned as a first step, and with Israel insisting that the territorial question be given priority.​
> An Event:
> 
> On 20 FEB 1963:  Maki, Herut, Mapam and Ahdut Ha'avoda factions presented four bills to end the Military Government in the occupied territories, as well as the annulment or amendment of the State of Emergency Regulations. The proposals were dismissed.​
> So at one point, there were still "Occupied Territories in 1963.  I just cannot find a reference for them.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can answer the question.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

However, the 1949 meetings of the Commission ended inconclusively, with the Arab States pressing for the refugees to be returned as a first step, and with Israel insisting that the territorial question be given priority.​
The 1949 UN armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.

I have seen nothing that changes that status.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

There is something else I read that gives more specifics on it.  I believe it had something to do with the agreed upon Armistice Lines _(Island of Rhodes)_.  I'm still looking for it.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it has been recognized as absorbed. But I don't know the particulars.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The only link I can supply for the moment is the recognition the PLO gave to the condition.

EXCERPT:  *The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background --- *PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department

"On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine."​
I'm still looking.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.


No, I see the truth. 

And if you ever present any, I'll acknowledge it.




rylah said:


> Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.


You would be wrong and retarded.

Wrong, because I'm not a racist, or a troll; retarded, because you think my response to you trashing Shlomo Sands, was not on topic.




rylah said:


> What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
> Why is it so difficult to find??


It appears you are the one who's a racist, since you keep trying to make a point about Palestinian culture?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Najla Said*

**


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are those people who live in Palestine for over three thousands years and now force to live in camps in their homeland called Palestine by the clever and tricky jew invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So were are these camps full of Jews then as they are the people who have lived there for 3,000 years. Arab muslims can only claim 22 years out of the last 1400 so they are not what you mean are they ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jew never live in the camp, either they go underground or move around the world and merge in the jew net work. This is the reason 6 million jews missing in the Germany, have no clue so far where they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They must do as until 1960 they were the only Palestinians in Palestine, the arab muslims said they were Syrians or Egyptian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not wrong. There was only one country until jews invaded and their colonial master divide the land in many countries so they can adjust Israel in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What country was that then ? as my searches show that no country existed at all when it was part of the Ottoman empire. In fact no country existed since the roman invasion in the first century BCE. That was 2000 years ago
Click to expand...

And that was roman empire.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to understand exactly what a Zionist is, and you seem to think they are islamonazi mass murdering child raping terrorists. All a Zionist is in fact is a person that believes the Jews should have a homeland in Palestine and the right to defend that homeland against attack. Any other definition is a BLOOD LIBEL and a LIE.
> 
> This is no different to being an Aussie, a Brit, a Yank, a German, an eyetie, a frog or any other nationalistic person. The only person on here that is stark raving mad is you when you defend islamonazi mass murder and terrorism when you attack the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Slaughterers are Scum BUT YOU MUST REALISE.............Zionists/Zionism HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM...watching your Slaughter over the past 70 years  the Palestinians.........You and they are so similar...You Murder and Slaughter so do they...Bastards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say thaliq is right and every action has  a reaction, we should condemn the Israel over their killing for 70 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the killing of terrorists and invaders that is legal under international law. How about the killing by muslims then will you condemn all those. From the 10 million in India to the 50,000 in Jordan, these went on over 70 years and amounted to many millions of innocents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will say for some reason you don't accept the truth or may be it is your job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that historical records kept by muslims are not true ?
Click to expand...

I will say it is your job to prove that wrong is right. But truth always win doesn't matter to whom shoulder jew use or how many faces they hide behind as I am already saying in my signature comments that 100 million jew went missing or went underground.


----------



## docmauser1

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> There is something else I read that gives more specifics on it.  I believe it had something to do with the agreed upon Armistice Lines _(Island of Rhodes)_.  I'm still looking for it.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it has been recognized as absorbed. But I don't know the particulars.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The only link I can supply for the moment is the recognition the PLO gave to the condition.
> 
> EXCERPT:  *The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background --- *PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
> 
> "On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine."​I'm still looking.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

And how does that palistanian department define "historic"? They're a pretty wayward lot when dates and time-frames are concerned.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I see the truth.
> 
> And if you ever present any, I'll acknowledge it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would be wrong and retarded.
> 
> Wrong, because I'm not a racist, or a troll; retarded, because you think my response to you trashing Shlomo Sands, was not on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
> Why is it so difficult to find??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears you are the one who's a racist, since you keep trying to make a point about Palestinian culture?
Click to expand...


Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History

Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu

So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.


----------



## rylah

So no Palestinian distinct culture those Arab tribes still maintain?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


http://palwatch.org/STORAGE/special reports/PA honors terrorists Final Eng.pdf


From Terrorists to Role Models:

The Palestinian Authority’s Institutionalization of Incitement

May 2010

How Palestinian Authority policy of naming schools, streets, sporting events, summer camps and ceremonies after terrorists fundamentally undermines the chance for peace


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I see the truth.
> 
> And if you ever present any, I'll acknowledge it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would be wrong and retarded.
> 
> Wrong, because I'm not a racist, or a troll; retarded, because you think my response to you trashing Shlomo Sands, was not on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
> Why is it so difficult to find??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears you are the one who's a racist, since you keep trying to make a point about Palestinian culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
Click to expand...

How ignorant you are,the Palestinians a warrior tribe have been in Palestine for thousands of years,know as Plesheth during Biblical Times and the word appears in the Bible on many occasions.......so your ignorant Point IS Rylah !!!!!!!!!???????????because the Palestinians were in the area when Hebrews were there,Jews?Hebrews were not anyway near the original peoples of this land the Canaanites and Moabites were.................Your History is littered with inaccuracy and compounded by the 20th Century Cult of the Zionist who have completely distorted the history of the Jewish people for their own corrupt ends...even claiming today that Judeaism is Zionism which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT....STEVE


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.


Except in this case, we can't find any Jewish culture (of leaving)?


----------



## rylah

Then why do they choose the* Arabic* revolt flag?

And that's not what the Palestinian minister of Interior says:

But let's say You're right (You ARE wrong), Pleshtim are not even Semitic,
they'e from Greece and Crete. Then their name means- 'invaders'(given by Semitic people), from the root p-l-sh.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> 
> 
> Except in this case, we can't find any Jewish culture (of leaving)?
Click to expand...


There's no Jewish culture?
Trolling as usual. Read the links at least.

The question in hand- is there a distinct Palestinian culture?


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> 
> 
> Except in this case, we can't find any Jewish culture (of leaving)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no Jewish culture?
> Trolling as usual. Read the links at least.
> 
> The question in hand- is there a distinct Palestinian culture?
Click to expand...

Yep


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> There's no Jewish culture?
> Trolling as usual. Read the links at least.
> 
> The question in hand- is there a distinct Palestinian culture?


When you were a kid, did you have to wear hockey equipment, but you weren't on a team?

You seem to have comprehension issues?  I said there is no evidence of Jewish culture leaving.  No evidence of the exodus.  No evidence of the diaspora.

_Que pasa, mutha?_


----------



## Hollie

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I see the truth.
> 
> And if you ever present any, I'll acknowledge it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would be wrong and retarded.
> 
> Wrong, because I'm not a racist, or a troll; retarded, because you think my response to you trashing Shlomo Sands, was not on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
> Why is it so difficult to find??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears you are the one who's a racist, since you keep trying to make a point about Palestinian culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ignorant you are,the Palestinians a warrior tribe have been in Palestine for thousands of years,know as Plesheth during Biblical Times and the word appears in the Bible on many occasions.......so your ignorant Point IS Rylah !!!!!!!!!???????????because the Palestinians were in the area when Hebrews were there,Jews?Hebrews were not anyway near the original peoples of this land the Canaanites and Moabites were.................Your History is littered with inaccuracy and compounded by the 20th Century Cult of the Zionist who have completely distorted the history of the Jewish people for their own corrupt ends...even claiming today that Judeaism is Zionism which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT....STEVE
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your "warrior tribes" nonsense is laughable. You copied and pasted that from an islamo-website, right?


----------



## Rehmani

docmauser1 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> There is something else I read that gives more specifics on it.  I believe it had something to do with the agreed upon Armistice Lines _(Island of Rhodes)_.  I'm still looking for it.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it has been recognized as absorbed. But I don't know the particulars.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The only link I can supply for the moment is the recognition the PLO gave to the condition.
> 
> EXCERPT:  *The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background --- *PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
> 
> "On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine."​I'm still looking.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how does that palistanian department define "historic"? They're a pretty wayward lot when dates and time-frames are concerned.
Click to expand...

Israel as a country a gift to jewish because of Jewish support against Germany in WII and that support followed by divide the region in many countries so Israel can be place there and also armed and army support to Israel against Arab nation.


----------



## RoccoR

Hollie, theliq,  et al,

*(JUST AN OPINION)*

I am pretty sure that many scholars, on both sides of the issue of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, would agree that in some measure, Arab culture and tribalism makes its contribution to the predatory nature of the various Arab communities, I am not at all sure that there would be much agreement that a principle attribute or characteristic to the Philistia culture was a warrior mentality; at least not a successful warrior tribe _(although they are accredited with the capture of the Arc of the Covenant --- only to be defeated later by King David)_.  

The Philistia are not really related to the Arab Muslims or Palestinian of today; except in the most remote sense.  They are simply to far separated in time.  



Hollie said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> How ignorant you are,the Palestinians a warrior tribe have been in Palestine for thousands of years,know as Plesheth during Biblical Times and the word appears in the Bible on many occasions.......so your ignorant Point IS Rylah !!!!!!!!!???????????because the Palestinians were in the area when Hebrews were there,Jews?Hebrews were not anyway near the original peoples of this land the Canaanites and Moabites were.................Your History is littered with inaccuracy and compounded by the 20th Century Cult of the Zionist who have completely distorted the history of the Jewish people for their own corrupt ends...even claiming today that Judeaism is Zionism which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT....STEVE
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but your "warrior tribes" nonsense is laughable. You copied and pasted that from an islamo-website, right?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Most cultures of the of the first and second millennium in the Middle East were engaged in expansionist activity, and thus wars.  Around 1100 - 1000 BCE, the Middle East inhabitants of the region, including the Phoenecian's and Philistine's, were in a much more stabilized and consolidated position then the Israelites. 

I have seen, many times, the association made between the Philistia --- Philistines --- and Palestinians; as well as the subjective description as "warriors."  But for all intent and purposes, all the cultures at the turn of the First Millennium BCE were engaged in wars _(either offensive of defensive)_ and had a warrior component to their culture.  But the early people of Philistia were _(often referred to as Sea People)_ were believed to have migrated from Crete after an unsuccessful military engagement with the Egyptians.  Even Titus Flavius Josephus was not really clear on the matter. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

Rehmani said:


> ...Israel as a country a gift to jewish because of Jewish support against Germany in WII and that support followed by divide the region in many countries so Israel can be place there and also armed and army support to Israel against Arab nation.


The Jews wanted their old spiritual and ancestral homeland back, so we (The West) gave it to them.

The sparse population of Arab descendants of earlier Arab conquerors and land-thieves weren't doing anything worthwhile with the place, anyway.

And, given that the Euros had bled themselves dry and could not longer hold onto their Imperial Possessions in the region...

Setting-up a West-friendly Client State like Israel served to (1) keep the silly-ass Arabs in line and (2) establish a trip-wire for any serious trouble coming down the pipe.

And, truth be told, nobody expected the Jewish State to last very long, anyway.

But the Jews had other ideas.

And, after lying-down and taking it, like lambs to the slaughter, in the death-camps of Europe in the 1940s, and after taking Christian and Muslim shit for 2,000 years...

The Jews finally found their balls again, and carved-out a country for themselves again, holding it against all comers, against very long odds in the early going...

The land is theirs now...

There's really no point in the Arabs hanging-around any longer...

The Arabs have lost... it's all over... and has been, for quite some time now... all naive, idiotic protestations to the contrary, notwithstanding...

They're down to a handful of disconnected slivers of land, crowded-together and standing on each other's shoulders, stacked ten high, on a postage-stamp -sized dirt-ball...

It's time for the silly Arab-Muslims remaining there to pack up and leave...

67 years of sitting-around refugee camps and refugee-towns is quite long enough...

Sooner or later, they have to get it through their thick skulls, that they've lost, and that there is no point in clinging to their delusional aspirations...

Time to grow-up, acknowledge reality, pack-up, and leave... creating new and safe and happy and prosperous futures for themselves and their families, elsewhere.


----------



## Kondor3

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> 
> 
> Except in this case, we can't find any Jewish culture (of leaving)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no Jewish culture?
> Trolling as usual. Read the links at least.
> 
> The question in hand- is there a distinct Palestinian culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep
Click to expand...

Really?

What are the primary defining and distinguishing characteristics of this so-called 'Palestinian culture', that separate it from other regional tribal and ethnic environments?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> 
> 
> Except in this case, we can't find any Jewish culture (of leaving)?
Click to expand...


The historic documents argue with this. What You say is wrong.
I've attached a real scientific study, READ IT.


----------



## rylah

So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
7. Bedouines

But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).


----------



## P F Tinmore

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I see the truth.
> 
> And if you ever present any, I'll acknowledge it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would be wrong and retarded.
> 
> Wrong, because I'm not a racist, or a troll; retarded, because you think my response to you trashing Shlomo Sands, was not on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
> Why is it so difficult to find??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears you are the one who's a racist, since you keep trying to make a point about Palestinian culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ignorant you are,the Palestinians a warrior tribe have been in Palestine for thousands of years,know as Plesheth during Biblical Times and the word appears in the Bible on many occasions.......so your ignorant Point IS Rylah !!!!!!!!!???????????because the Palestinians were in the area when Hebrews were there,Jews?Hebrews were not anyway near the original peoples of this land the Canaanites and Moabites were.................Your History is littered with inaccuracy and compounded by the 20th Century Cult of the Zionist who have completely distorted the history of the Jewish people for their own corrupt ends...even claiming today that Judeaism is Zionism which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT....STEVE
Click to expand...

Palestine has been invaded and conquered many times. It has been a center of commerce for thousands of years. Many have come and gone while some stayed and put down roots. Don't forget that a hundred years ago that whole area was one country. Going from Amman to Jaffa was like going from Detroit to Cleveland.

Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh.. You only see what's Yours, what's in You.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I see the truth.
> 
> And if you ever present any, I'll acknowledge it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most safe to assume that You're a racist troll, who can't stay on topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would be wrong and retarded.
> 
> Wrong, because I'm not a racist, or a troll; retarded, because you think my response to you trashing Shlomo Sands, was not on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the Palestinian distinct culture those tribes still maintain?
> Why is it so difficult to find??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It appears you are the one who's a racist, since you keep trying to make a point about Palestinian culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Shlomo guy is a joke. Truth doesn't 'come' to people that blindly confident and ignorant.
> The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History
> 
> Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu
> 
> So convenient to point fingers at the jews when You can't find any distinct Palestinian culture- like every other nation has.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ignorant you are,the Palestinians a warrior tribe have been in Palestine for thousands of years,know as Plesheth during Biblical Times and the word appears in the Bible on many occasions.......so your ignorant Point IS Rylah !!!!!!!!!???????????because the Palestinians were in the area when Hebrews were there,Jews?Hebrews were not anyway near the original peoples of this land the Canaanites and Moabites were.................Your History is littered with inaccuracy and compounded by the 20th Century Cult of the Zionist who have completely distorted the history of the Jewish people for their own corrupt ends...even claiming today that Judeaism is Zionism which we all know is a CROCK OF SHIT....STEVE
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has been invaded and conquered many times. It has been a center of commerce for thousands of years. Many have come and gone while some stayed and put down roots. Don't forget that a hundred years ago that whole area was one country. Going from Amman to Jaffa was like going from Detroit to Cleveland.
> 
> Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.
Click to expand...



But somehow nations of the world could define it as a Jewish homeland.
Even the ancient and more late empires recognized this and let Jews resettle.
And while Arabs called themselves Syrians and Egyptians, Jews were recognized as the rooted nation of Palestine


----------



## Penelope

rylah said:


> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).


 
At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> ...Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.


Close.

More like...

Palestine is multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious *region*, under a singular actual control It would be *next-to-impossible* to define an exclusive cultural trait.


----------



## Kondor3

rylah said:


> ...But somehow nations of the world could define it as a Jewish homeland...


By Jove, I think you've got it, now.


----------



## rylah

Penelope said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.
Click to expand...


That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.

That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> 
> 
> Close.
> 
> More like...
> 
> Palestine is multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious *region*, under a singular actual control It would be *next-to-impossible* to define an exclusive cultural trait.
Click to expand...

A region is an undefined area.

Palestine is defined by international borders.

You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> The historic documents argue with this. What You say is wrong.
> I've attached a real scientific study, READ IT.


I read your links and they are just critique's of what someone else wrote.  Show me the archeological evidence that the diaspora occurred.

There's a bunch of ancient writings saying it happened, but no archeological evidence proving it happened.

Pony up that and I'll admit I'm wrong.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.


How could they possibly be invaders, when they constituted 90% of the population, before the Zionist migration?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
Click to expand...

OK, I get it. The cavemen were the indigenous people. Everyone who came later are invaders.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> 
> 
> Close.
> 
> More like...
> 
> Palestine is multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious *region*, under a singular actual control It would be *next-to-impossible* to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A region is an undefined area.
> 
> Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
Click to expand...

Palestine had no defined borders, when it existed as a regional reference.

Those hard-borders actually marked the edges of real countries, to which the area known as Palestine was connected.

It was an unincorporated, non-autonomous area _surrounded_ by actual borders, but, _inside_, it was a political vacuum.

Nature abhors a vacuum.

So, naturally, the Jews rushed in to fill the void.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> 
> 
> Close.
> 
> More like...
> 
> Palestine is multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious *region*, under a singular actual control It would be *next-to-impossible* to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A region is an undefined area.
> 
> Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine had no defined borders, when it existed as a regional reference.
> 
> It was an unincorporated, non-autonomous area _surrounded_ by actual borders, but, _inside_, it was a political vacuum.
> 
> Nature abhors a vacuum.
> 
> So, naturally, the Jews rushed in to fill the void.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> How could they possibly be invaders, when they constituted 90% of the population, before the Zionist migration?
Click to expand...

Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, etc. Arab squatters were not an indigenous population. They were squatters and land grabbers, many of which were Bedouin herders.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> 
> 
> Close.
> 
> More like...
> 
> Palestine is multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious *region*, under a singular actual control It would be *next-to-impossible* to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A region is an undefined area.
> 
> Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine had no defined borders, when it existed as a regional reference.
> 
> It was an unincorporated, non-autonomous area _surrounded_ by actual borders, but, _inside_, it was a political vacuum.
> 
> Nature abhors a vacuum.
> 
> So, naturally, the Jews rushed in to fill the void.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Link to *WHAT*, Tinny?

That so-called Palestine had no substantive and authoritative and defining political life of its own, within its vacuum-like unincorporated pseudo-existence?

Asking me to prove a negative?

Nice try.

If, on the other hand, you can prove otherwise - prove a positive - why, then, have at it.


----------



## Penelope

rylah said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
Click to expand...


I mean the Israelites or jews. I believe the Samaritans and some Jews   were there when Rome took over. Palestine was not full of Jews,  far from it, most stayed in their beloved Babylon , some stayed and worked the land for Rome, some became Christians and some Muslims, but they belong to the old Canaanites and other civilizations. They are all intermarried. The descendants of Hebrews are most likely the Palestinians.


----------



## Kondor3

None of that old shit matters, anymore.

The Jews of Israel hold the pink slip now.

Time for the squatters to pack up and leave.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, etc. Arab squatters were not an indigenous population. They were squatters and land grabbers, many of which were Bedouin herders.



*WaffenHollie!
*
Historical records say you're full of shit.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, I get it. The cavemen were the indigenous people.


Not according to Jewish Neanderthals.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, etc. Arab squatters were not an indigenous population. They were squatters and land grabbers, many of which were Bedouin herders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WaffenHollie!
> *
> Historical records say you're full of shit.
Click to expand...

No, they don't. Hysterical responses of pointless drivel you posted with your former account as Loinboy won't help you here.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> No, they don't. Hysterical responses of pointless drivel you posted with your former account as Loinboy won't help you here.


You can't use _"drivel",_ that's *docmausers* word!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I get it. The cavemen were the indigenous people. Everyone who came later are invaders.
Click to expand...

Your incessant whining about Israel making a nation from lands formerly part of Arab-Islamist conquest is pointless and time wasting. 

You Muhammedans were former conquerors and Crusaders who lost any relevancy in terms of the lands you squatted on. 

Send an email to ISIS and demand they provide a home for their Arab-Islamist co-religionists. Report back to us on how that goes.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they don't. Hysterical responses of pointless drivel you posted with your former account as Loinboy won't help you here.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't use _"drivel",_ that's *docmausers* word!
Click to expand...

Why not? You recycle the same drivel you posted under your Loinboy account.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

PA: Rock throwing is legitimate, endorsed by Abbas, who praised 12 year-old rock thrower

PA: Rock throwing is legitimate, endorsed by Abbas, who praised 12 year-old rock thrower - Promoting violence for children | PMW

 “President Mahmoud Abbas received yesterday [Sept. 3, 2015] at the presidential headquarters in Ramallah, the family of Martyr Muhammad Al-Atrash, who was killed by the Israeli occupation forces at the Tapuach junction, south of Nablus, and the family of youth Muhammad Al-Tamimi, whom the Israeli occupation forces attacked and tried to arrest in the village of Nabi Saleh, west of Ramallah. 




Lovely, lovely folks.

The faux "president" of an invented people with an invented identity who represent the greatest welfare fraud inflicted on the planet takes time from counting his welfare money to encourage stupidity.

Stateworthy!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Palestine is a multi ethnic, multi racial, and multi religious country. It would be difficult to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> 
> 
> Close.
> 
> More like...
> 
> Palestine is multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious *region*, under a singular actual control It would be *next-to-impossible* to define an exclusive cultural trait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A region is an undefined area.
> 
> Palestine is defined by international borders.
> 
> You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine had no defined borders, when it existed as a regional reference.
> 
> Those hard-borders actually marked the edges of real countries, to which the area known as Palestine was connected.
> 
> It was an unincorporated, non-autonomous area _surrounded_ by actual borders, but, _inside_, it was a political vacuum.
> 
> Nature abhors a vacuum.
> 
> So, naturally, the Jews rushed in to fill the void.
Click to expand...

So the surrounding countries had international borders with a black hole?

You are a hoot!


----------



## rylah

Penelope said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean the Israelites or jews. I believe the Samaritans and some Jews   were there when Rome took over. Palestine was not full of Jews,  far from it, most stayed in their beloved Babylon , some stayed and worked the land for Rome, some became Christians and some Muslims, but they belong to the old Canaanites and other civilizations. They are all intermarried. The descendants of Hebrews are most likely the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


You can believe whatever You wish.

Facts stay the same:
-Palestinians use the Arabic revolt flag.
-Their culture is Arabic
-They consider themselves Ishmaelites
-Israelites and Ishmaelites come from the same ancestor- Abraham.

Ismaelites (Arabs) are not Greek or Pleshtim and not more Cnaanites than Israelites. 
Even their religion admits Allah gave the land to Israelites.
Ishmael is still wild and traitorous and that's why he and his mother were rejected by Abraham. Hagar mistreated Abraham's wife Sarah, while Ishmael was pointing arrows at Isaac. However they were promised great kingdoms and got them, but that's not enough. They still want to kill their brothers.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The historic documents argue with this. What You say is wrong.
> I've attached a real scientific study, READ IT.
> 
> 
> 
> I read your links and they are just critique's of what someone else wrote.  Show me the archeological evidence that the diaspora occurred.
> 
> There's a bunch of ancient writings saying it happened, but no archeological evidence proving it happened.
> 
> Pony up that and I'll admit I'm wrong.
Click to expand...


Review of: S. Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People (Hebrew and English) | Avshalom Laniado - Academia.edu

The Invention of the Jewish People | Reviews in History

The link showed the misrepresentations, flaws in reasoning and method of research-the experiment failed to show the same results. 

Scientists actually get p/raised when critique their own work and show it to be wrong. They don't get emotional and use Hitler to derail the argument. Like Sholomo did. 

Now for he archaeological evidence of 
diaspora:

Ancient Jewish art and archaeology in the Diaspora

Ancient tablets disclose Jewish exiles’ life in Babylonia - Archaeology


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ghada Karmi *

**


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> How could they possibly be invaders, when they constituted 90% of the population, before the Zionist migration?
Click to expand...


That's only recent history. Muslims/Ishmaelites reached majority only in the end of the 12th century CE. Israel was first documented archaeologically in the 12th century BC (Merneptah Stele*)*
. It's 2400 years difference at least. And Jews kept their presence there, came to settle or be buried. It's a thing with the Jews- they won't stop coming back to the land they face and praise in their prayers for centuries.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So until now the Palestinians chose to be:
> 1. Arabs 2. Jews 3. Syrians 3. Phoenicians 4. Plishtim-Greeks  5.Jebusites 6. Cnaanites
> 7. Bedouines
> 
> But no distinct culture as a people...somebody is trying to play all he cards at once, while rewriting the Jewish history. How convenient, however their flag shows they're Arabs FOR NOW- therefore invaders  (as their name directly suggests).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they didn't have to reinvent themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what they are doing- 'PALESTINIANS' all the time reinventing their roots.
> But the name they chose states it clear- INVADERS.
> 
> That's why no one showed the distinct Palestinian culture-
> they're Arabs, late invaders of Jewish homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I get it. The cavemen were the indigenous people. Everyone who came later are invaders.
Click to expand...



Quiet infantile, that's why  Jews should leave?

Do You suggest border-less society, so that if Arabs don't get it Jews won't too?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Hamas's New Army of Children


While thousands of Palestinian families who lost their houses during the war continue to live in public shelters throughout the Gaza Strip, Hamas recently established 18 camps for military training.

The Hamas military training camps, under the motto "Vanguards of Liberation," have attracted some 17,000 Palestinian males aged 15-21. The young recruits were trained how to use various types of weapons, including pistols, rifles and mortars. They were also "educated" about the need to eliminate Israel and "restore Palestinian rights."





In the Arab/Islamic world, fear, oppression and xenophobia are an intrinsic part of the body politic when it comes to Islamic fear societies.

This is yet another glaring example of the near-impossible difficulties Islamist nations face in being extricated from the Theocratic/Authoritarian Dark Ages that is a yolk around the neck of the typical Middle Eastern/totalitarian Islamist fear society.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## rylah

What's their distinct Palestinian culture they've been keeping?


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't they were given the land by the last owners, being Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> 
> The people that live on the land are the owners of the land, not the governments or corrupt politicians.
> If you displace the native population, you commit a crime.
Click to expand...




So you admit that the arab muslims are criminals as they displaced the native Jewish population of gaza and the west bank in 1949.
 But read the international treaties that saw Jordan and Egypt give up all claims to gaza and the west bank


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> (COMMENT)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
Click to expand...






 WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXHIBIT)*
> 
> View attachment 50186
> *EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
> "The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
> terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
> Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
> Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
> Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around
> Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:
> 
> The State of Israel exists
> The State of Palestine exists
> The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.
> 
> There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:
> 
> Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.
> 
> Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
> There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries:
> 
> First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
> But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_.
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
> The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land making the above link null and void as evidence of a Palestinian state prior to 1988. So it did not have the rights that Israel had, and have lost repeatedly every war they have started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land...​
> I assume you have a link to that.
Click to expand...





 The UN charter, the mandate of Palestine and UN res 181


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
Click to expand...

As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
Of course you can post the link that says that.[/QUOTE]




 UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh yes, the APG again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Come-on really.  I could put together a group of former enemy officers and send the UN a telegram declaring independence over the United States.  That doesn't mean a thing.  You must have some sort of credibility and control over the territory.  APG, puppet to the Egyptians, and dissolved by them in 1959, had nothing of the sort.
> 
> V/R
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?​
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
Click to expand...





 NONE as it was ensconced in Egypt after being displaced by the fighting.

 None as they had no feet on the ground and had not fully declared independence, and still haven't which is why the land is still disputed.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.​
> Then why does everyone keep bringing this up when it is meaningless?
> 
> The Palestinians had more standing in 1948. They were not officially occupied until 1949.
Click to expand...





 By other arab muslims as they had never owned the land since 1099.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, this is your interpretation, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory.  If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.  [Article 2(4)]
> 
> Relative to the issue of borders, the Palestinians do not have a unified political position.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (sole representative of the Palestinian People) Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), openly acknowledges that the "June 4, 1967 border, also known as Green Line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) _(i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ and the State of Israel."
> 
> The June 4, 1967 border, also known as green line, is the internationally recognized border between the occupied Palestinian territory (i.e. West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel. The occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) represents an area equivalent to 22 percent of historic Palestine.
> 
> *2. Key Facts PLO-NAD *
> 
> •  The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
> 
> •  A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967.
> 
> •  The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the oPt, including East Jerusalem.​The PLO recognition of the 1967 Border _(pre-establishment of the Palestinian State)_, varies from the position that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS); which is all the territory previously subject to the British Mandate.  This cannot be negotiated or argued until the Palestinians themselves come to agreement amongst themselves as to what their position is.
> 
> If one reference the "UNTERM Database," one the annotation that:  "A principle enunciated for the first time in Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 in reference to the Palestinian people, and subsequently reiterated, in the same context, in several United Nations documents of other organs."
> 
> Seen in phrase:
> 
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war
> •  the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This comes after the 1967 Six-day War.  But it also is important to note that no "Palestinian Territory" was occupied in 1967.  The territory was sovereign Jordanian Territory (West Bank) and the Egyptian Military Governorship (Gaza Strip).
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution 242 cannot retroactively apply the "Emphasis."  The conflict between the actions of Israel and Article 2(4) of the Charter, was resolved by Treaties; as outlined in previous Posting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did the APG have control when it declared Independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What control of territory did the PLO have in 1988?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition of the 1988 State of Palestine was a sympathy vote.  It was unopposed by Israel.  The PLO had no effective territorial control anywhere.  It is for this reason that the State of Palestine has only achieved "Observer Status."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The State of Israel has established sovereignty over their national territory. If the "Palestinians attack Israel," the Palestinians are demonstrating the use of force against the *territorial integrity* and political independence of Israel. [Article 2(4)]​
> You always crack me up with that one.
> 
> You constantly bring it up.
> 
> Then you always duck the issue of Israel's territory.
Click to expand...






 Do you want the mandate of Palestine's delineation of the land destined as the Jewish NATIONal home again, as that shows you are wrong every time


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> (COMMENT)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
Click to expand...

Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.

The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.


----------



## Rehmani

Kondor3 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Israel as a country a gift to jewish because of Jewish support against Germany in WII and that support followed by divide the region in many countries so Israel can be place there and also armed and army support to Israel against Arab nation.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews wanted their old spiritual and ancestral homeland back, so we (The West) gave it to them.
> 
> The sparse population of Arab descendants of earlier Arab conquerors and land-thieves weren't doing anything worthwhile with the place, anyway.
> 
> And, given that the Euros had bled themselves dry and could not longer hold onto their Imperial Possessions in the region...
> 
> Setting-up a West-friendly Client State like Israel served to (1) keep the silly-ass Arabs in line and (2) establish a trip-wire for any serious trouble coming down the pipe.
> 
> And, truth be told, nobody expected the Jewish State to last very long, anyway.
> 
> But the Jews had other ideas.
> 
> And, after lying-down and taking it, like lambs to the slaughter, in the death-camps of Europe in the 1940s, and after taking Christian and Muslim shit for 2,000 years...
> 
> The Jews finally found their balls again, and carved-out a country for themselves again, holding it against all comers, against very long odds in the early going...
> 
> The land is theirs now...
> 
> There's really no point in the Arabs hanging-around any longer...
> 
> The Arabs have lost... it's all over... and has been, for quite some time now... all naive, idiotic protestations to the contrary, notwithstanding...
> 
> They're down to a handful of disconnected slivers of land, crowded-together and standing on each other's shoulders, stacked ten high, on a postage-stamp -sized dirt-ball...
> 
> It's time for the silly Arab-Muslims remaining there to pack up and leave...
> 
> 67 years of sitting-around refugee camps and refugee-towns is quite long enough...
> 
> Sooner or later, they have to get it through their thick skulls, that they've lost, and that there is no point in clinging to their delusional aspirations...
> 
> Time to grow-up, acknowledge reality, pack-up, and leave... creating new and safe and happy and prosperous futures for themselves and their families, elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Sound like you are story maker but you can not change the facts and figure but you can make the story as you like and as you did and time will prove you wrong and do you accept the facts then, better do it now and make the world peace full.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXHIBIT)*
> 
> View attachment 50186
> *EXEMPLAR:* *The Israeli Security Barrier *
> "The Israeli government says the purpose of the security barrier is to prevent
> terrorists from entering Israeli cities, a problem which has plagued Israel since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
> Its secondary purpose is to prevent illegal infiltrations of Palestinians, mainly illegal immigrants and car thieves.
> Political commentators have suggested a wide variety of other explanations.
> Only small parts of the fence are made of concrete wall - 8 miles around Qalqiliya and around
> Jerusalem - where shooting attacks toward Israelis have occured."​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Often confused, is the difference between "recognition" of a state and the "border" of a state.  Recognition is a political action that declares a state of being:
> 
> The State of Israel exists
> The State of Palestine exists
> The limit of that existence is called the border or International Boundary.
> 
> There is a formal legal process by which the Israelis and Palestinians MUST eventually traverse wherein the two sovereign nations establish in writing the location of their common boundary.  This is called the "Delimitations Process."  Most often it is the outcome of a negotiation.  Examples are:
> 
> Article II (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979:  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized *international boundary* between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.
> 
> Article 3 (and associated Annexes), Treaty of Peace between the Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 26 October 1994:  The *international boundary* between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I(a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.  _(Joint Boundary Commission involved)_​
> There are TWO very interest things in common with these two treaties relative to the recognition of international boundaries:
> 
> First, is that they both use the boundary of the territory to which the former Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> Second, they both make note that the agreement was undertaken without prejudice to the issue of the status either the Gaza Strip _(in the case of the treaty with Egypt)_ or the West Bank _(in the case of the treaty with Jordan)_.  It was pretty clear that neither Egypt or Jordan wanted the Treaty seen as an admission that could be used against the Arab Palestinians in future with any determinative legal effect.  They wanted to protect the development of self-government in these two areas from any adverse consequence.  In deed, in 1988, the PLO declared independence.​
> But the greatest and most definitive evidence of a sovereign state border _(all paper aside)_ is the effective control over territorial space (or a defined territory) is usually a prerequisite. Article I of the 1933 Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States identifies a "defined territory."   There is no more a definitive example of a border (effective control) then the exemplar _(supra)_.
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.*​
> The State of Israel does not actually need recognition from the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  Within the territory defined, it defends the boundary and exercises effective control within that boundary.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land making the above link null and void as evidence of a Palestinian state prior to 1988. So it did not have the rights that Israel had, and have lost repeatedly every war they have started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land...​
> I assume you have a link to that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN charter, the mandate of Palestine and UN res 181
Click to expand...

I have read those.

You are full of crap.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
Click to expand...


Yeah I get it, Palestinians are people without distinct culture,
they are those for whom the justification lays in narrow pathways of modern laws and word games.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, exactly, is that territory and how did Israel acquire it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
> Of course you can post the link that says that.
Click to expand...





UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well[/QUOTE]
UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners.​
Of course you have a link that says that.

I didn't think so.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
Click to expand...





 They do as they don't have any other than the ones agreed by treaty and imposed by Israel. And what treaty gives Palestine any borders ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And there it one of them.  One of several key issues with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​
> Indeed.
> 
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> And even though recognition is not necessary Palestine was recognized by 5 other states and was admitted to the Arab League as a member state in 1974.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land making the above link null and void as evidence of a Palestinian state prior to 1988. So it did not have the rights that Israel had, and have lost repeatedly every war they have started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the arab league government of gaza were told they could not declare on another persons land...​
> I assume you have a link to that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN charter, the mandate of Palestine and UN res 181
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read those.
> 
> You are full of crap.
Click to expand...




 NOPE that would be you as you don't even know what the mandate of Palestine says about the Jewish NATIONal home


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, yes I did.
> 
> Keep dancing, Rocco.
> 
> You did no answer the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
> Of course you can post the link that says that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well
Click to expand...

UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners.​
Of course you have a link that says that.

I didn't think so.[/QUOTE]




 Gave them in the UN charter, mandate of Palestine and res 181. Then there is res 242 that spells it out again if you read the authors description of what it means


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is on the other side of the border barrier.  It runs along the red lines in this map.
> 
> View attachment 50195
> 
> As stipulated in the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
> Of course you can post the link that says that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners.​
> Of course you have a link that says that.
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...







> Gave them in the UN charter, mandate of Palestine and res 181. Then there is res 242 that spells it out again if you read the authors description of what it means


Of course you will not quote the passages because they are not there.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
> Of course you can post the link that says that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners.​
> Of course you have a link that says that.
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gave them in the UN charter, mandate of Palestine and res 181. Then there is res 242 that spells it out again if you read the authors description of what it means
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you will not quote the passages because they are not there.
Click to expand...





 Or because you ignore the parts that show the law did not change until after 1967, and that the land was not sovereign to anyone once the occupiers left.


----------



## easyt65

*'WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS?'*


*1ST:*  Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. there are significantly more non-Arab Muslims in areas such as Indonesia and Malaysia than there are Arab Muslims.

*2ND:*  it is important to remember that not all Arabs hate Jews, not all Muslims hate Jews, and not all Jews hate Arabs and Muslims. We must be careful to avoid stereotyping people.


*THE BIBLE AND OTHER SCRIPTURE TEACHES:*
- The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac.
- The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael.

_Abraham was promised a son by God. Fearing Sarah would not be able to give him a son he laid with a slave woman and had a son with her 1st. God then gave him and Sarah a child together, a boy named Isaac. 

With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (__Genesis 16:1–16__) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham (__Genesis 21:1–3__), obviously there would be some animosity between the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (__Genesis 21:9__), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmael away (__Genesis 21:11–21__).This caused even more contempt in Ishmael’s heart toward Isaac. An angel told Hagar that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation (__Genesis 21:18__) and, interestingly, that Ishmael would be “a wild donkey of a man (aka ‘jackass’); his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers (especially the Jews – ancestry of Isaac))” (__Genesis 16:12__)._

*SOURCE OF HISTORICAL AND ON-GOING CONFLICT:*
ARABS TEACH IT WAS ISHMAEL WHO WAS PROMISED ABRAHAM’S GREAT ‘INHERITANCE’ / BLESSING

_However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility between Jews and Arabs today. The religion of Islam, which a majority of Arabs follow, has made the hostility predicted of Ishmael more profound. The Qur’an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. The Qur’an also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Qur’an says it was Ishmael. The Qur’an teaches that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (in contradiction to __Genesis 22__). This debate over who was the son of promise further contributes to today’s hostility._


*IF THESE ARE TRUE, THE ISLAMIC CLAIM TO PALESTINE AND ISRAEL ARE FALSE / NOT VALID:* 
_The Abrahamic Covenant was given only to Isaac and to his descendants. Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham were explicitly excluded by God from having any part of the covenant made with Abraham. (Gen. 18:18-21). Therefore the descendants of Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham do not have any claim to the land of Israel because they are not included in the covenant God made with Abraham. Only the Jews have any claim to the land of Israel.

The Arab people are not the children of Ishmael. Even if they were, they would still have no claim to Israel because Ishmael was excluded by God Himself from having any part in the covenant made with Abraham. Isaac was the only heir of the Abrahamic covenant. Thus the Arabs as a people have no claim to the land of Israel.
_
_The Muslims have no claim to the land of Israel either. Muhammad never went to Jerusalem, AS THEY CLAIM, except in a dream. The only ones with a spiritual and biblical claim to the land of Israel are the descendants of Isaac, the Jews._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
> Of course you can post the link that says that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners.​
> Of course you have a link that says that.
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gave them in the UN charter, mandate of Palestine and res 181. Then there is res 242 that spells it out again if you read the authors description of what it means
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you will not quote the passages because they are not there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or because you ignore the parts that show the law did not change until after 1967, and that the land was not sovereign to anyone once the occupiers left.
Click to expand...

The occupiers left what?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.



P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are armistice lines. They were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.

Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:

*•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
*•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
*•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
*•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
*•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
*•  Adjudication* and
*•  Conquest*​
While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.

In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.

The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.

The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I say that Israel took land by conquest which is illegal.

What do you say?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil,...​
> Of course you can post the link that says that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners. There was no acquisition of land through force as the land had no sovereign owner and so was free for all. To the victor goes the spoils, which is why Israel/Jews lost land in 1949 as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN charter, mandate of Palestine and UN res 181. The land became free when the Palestinians refused to take up 181 as it had no sovereign owners.​
> Of course you have a link that says that.
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gave them in the UN charter, mandate of Palestine and res 181. Then there is res 242 that spells it out again if you read the authors description of what it means
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you will not quote the passages because they are not there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or because you ignore the parts that show the law did not change until after 1967, and that the land was not sovereign to anyone once the occupiers left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The occupiers left what?
Click to expand...





Gaza and the west bank of course when they attacked Israel in 1967 and were driven back to the other side of the nearest water course.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I say that Israel took land by conquest which is illegal.
> 
> What do you say?
Click to expand...






 That you are trying to use a law that did not exist at the time to attack Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the rules say it Israel controls the area then it is Israeli soil, and seeing as they held in from 1967 to 1988 then the Palestinians have lost all but the land on their side of the red line
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A view on Oslo:

*SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES
*
*Article 49 Fraud*
A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.

*Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.

*Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.

*Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.

*Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.

Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
I am sure that more that one of those apply.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A view on Oslo:
> 
> *SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES*
> 
> *Article 49 Fraud*
> A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.
> 
> *Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
> A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.
> 
> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.
> 
> Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
> I am sure that more that one of those apply.
Click to expand...





 I am 100% certain that they don't as Arafat entered into negotiations of his own free will and was not forced to accede to any of the terms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A view on Oslo:
> 
> *SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES*
> 
> *Article 49 Fraud*
> A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.
> 
> *Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
> A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.
> 
> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.
> 
> Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
> I am sure that more that one of those apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am 100% certain that they don't as Arafat entered into negotiations of his own free will and was not forced to accede to any of the terms.
Click to expand...

Israel dragged Arafat (a terrorist) and the PLO (a terrorist organization) back to Palestine and saved them from extinction.

I am sure that benevolence was not part of Israel's plan.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A view on Oslo:
> 
> *SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES*
> 
> *Article 49 Fraud*
> A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.
> 
> *Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
> A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.
> 
> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.
> 
> Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
> I am sure that more that one of those apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am 100% certain that they don't as Arafat entered into negotiations of his own free will and was not forced to accede to any of the terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel dragged Arafat (a terrorist) and the PLO (a terrorist organization) back to Palestine and saved them from extinction.
> 
> I am sure that benevolence was not part of Israel's plan.
Click to expand...






 How about a link proving this fantasy claim of yours, it must include Israel dragging Arafat and the PLO back to Palestine. But seeing as the deal was struck thousands of miles away I guess you wont be able to.

 Looks like another of your claims has been proven wrong and you proven to be a fantasist


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

Of course the Convention on Treaties does have an applications to the Oslo Accords.  That much we agree on.  But I have never heard President Mahmoud Abbas, who in 1993 was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Negotiator and signed the "Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements" (AKA:  Oslo I), even suggest that the proceeding were fraudulent or coerced, or accuse Israel of corrupting the process, or coercing the PLO (or himself) in any way.  Nor has President Mahmoud Abbas charged or complained that Oslo I conflicts with any peremptory norm of general international law to the detriment of the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian People.  Nor have we heard from President Mahmoud Abbas that the sole representative of the Palestinian People (himself --- representing their interests) was subject to some measure of force or lacking the competence to enter into such a negotiation or that the PLO was forced to renounced terrorism and recognized Israel’s right to exist in peace.

In fact, President Mahmoud Abbas did not suggest then and does not claim now that he or the PLO were subject to any military, political, economic pressures, or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of the Palestinian People.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well --- not exactly.
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border.  But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.   The Arab Palestinians have no standing what-so-ever relative to the Armistice Agreements. When the treaties were signed, the Armistice Lines effectively went away.
> 
> For the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  _(This superseded the SECRET temporary Peace Agreement between Egypt and Israel of September 1975.)
> _
> For the Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement, Article XII says:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,"​
> The Armistice Lines have long since become just a matter of historical reference.  Nothing prevents Israel from using, adjusting, revising or amending the inactive Armistice Lines for borders they control.
> 
> We went over this in May of last year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A view on Oslo:
> 
> *SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES*
> 
> *Article 49 Fraud*
> A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.
> 
> *Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
> A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.
> 
> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.
> 
> Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
> I am sure that more that one of those apply.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You may be sure that one of these prohibitions apply, but I do not --- now, nor have I ever --- had knowledge of a credible accusation, supported by a reasonable source, suggesting that some inappropriate pressure or activity was brought upon President Mahmoud Abbas or the PLO that would have invalidated the Oslo Accord process.

Do you have such knowledge or evidence, or even a credible report of evidence from a first-hand source --- other than hearsay?

I would be most appreciative if you would enlighten me.
*‘Abbas’s UN speech won’t announce end of PA’*
*Israeli official says European diplomats were told Palestinian Authority president won’t terminate Oslo Accords*
BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF September 21, 2015,

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas last week told European diplomats that, contrary to rumors in the Arab press, he wouldn’t announce the dismantlement of the PA or annulment of the 1993 Oslo Accords in an upcoming UN General Assembly speech, Haaretz quoted an Israeli official saying Sunday.
---
Under the 1993 Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority administers civil and security control over the West Bank’s major cities, which are delineated Area A. Area B is under PA civil control, but is under joint security control with Israel, and Area C — the bulk of the West Bank, is under Israeli control.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

easyt65 said:


> *'WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS?'*
> 
> 
> *1ST:*  Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. there are significantly more non-Arab Muslims in areas such as Indonesia and Malaysia than there are Arab Muslims.
> 
> *2ND:*  it is important to remember that not all Arabs hate Jews, not all Muslims hate Jews, and not all Jews hate Arabs and Muslims. We must be careful to avoid stereotyping people.
> 
> 
> *THE BIBLE AND OTHER SCRIPTURE TEACHES:*
> - The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac.
> - The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael.
> 
> _Abraham was promised a son by God. Fearing Sarah would not be able to give him a son he laid with a slave woman and had a son with her 1st. God then gave him and Sarah a child together, a boy named Isaac.
> 
> With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (__Genesis 16:1–16__) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham (__Genesis 21:1–3__), obviously there would be some animosity between the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (__Genesis 21:9__), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmael away (__Genesis 21:11–21__).This caused even more contempt in Ishmael’s heart toward Isaac. An angel told Hagar that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation (__Genesis 21:18__) and, interestingly, that Ishmael would be “a wild donkey of a man (aka ‘jackass’); his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers (especially the Jews – ancestry of Isaac))” (__Genesis 16:12__)._
> 
> *SOURCE OF HISTORICAL AND ON-GOING CONFLICT:*
> ARABS TEACH IT WAS ISHMAEL WHO WAS PROMISED ABRAHAM’S GREAT ‘INHERITANCE’ / BLESSING
> 
> _However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility between Jews and Arabs today. The religion of Islam, which a majority of Arabs follow, has made the hostility predicted of Ishmael more profound. The Qur’an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. The Qur’an also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Qur’an says it was Ishmael. The Qur’an teaches that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (in contradiction to __Genesis 22__). This debate over who was the son of promise further contributes to today’s hostility._
> 
> 
> *IF THESE ARE TRUE, THE ISLAMIC CLAIM TO PALESTINE AND ISRAEL ARE FALSE / NOT VALID:*
> _The Abrahamic Covenant was given only to Isaac and to his descendants. Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham were explicitly excluded by God from having any part of the covenant made with Abraham. (Gen. 18:18-21). Therefore the descendants of Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham do not have any claim to the land of Israel because they are not included in the covenant God made with Abraham. Only the Jews have any claim to the land of Israel.
> 
> The Arab people are not the children of Ishmael. Even if they were, they would still have no claim to Israel because Ishmael was excluded by God Himself from having any part in the covenant made with Abraham. Isaac was the only heir of the Abrahamic covenant. Thus the Arabs as a people have no claim to the land of Israel.
> _
> _The Muslims have no claim to the land of Israel either. Muhammad never went to Jerusalem, AS THEY CLAIM, except in a dream. The only ones with a spiritual and biblical claim to the land of Israel are the descendants of Isaac, the Jews._



It doesn't say "wild donkey of a man' but simply "wild man..." originally.


----------



## docmauser1

theliq said:


> How ignorant you are,the Palestinians a warrior tribe have been in Palestine for thousands of years, ...


Palistanians are a bunch of arab settlers from the hood, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Rehmani said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> There is something else I read that gives more specifics on it.  I believe it had something to do with the agreed upon Armistice Lines _(Island of Rhodes)_.  I'm still looking for it.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it has been recognized as absorbed. But I don't know the particulars.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> The only link I can supply for the moment is the recognition the PLO gave to the condition.
> EXCERPT:  *The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background --- *PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
> 
> "On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine."​I'm still looking.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how does that palistanian department define "historic"? They're a pretty wayward lot when dates and time-frames are concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel as a country a gift to jewish because of Jewish support against Germany in WII and that support followed by divide the region in many countries so Israel can be place there and also armed and army support to Israel against Arab nation.
Click to expand...

Drivel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Of course the Convention on Treaties does have an applications to the Oslo Accords.  That much we agree on.  But I have never heard President Mahmoud Abbas, who in 1993 was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Negotiator and signed the "Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements" (AKA:  Oslo I), even suggest that the proceeding were fraudulent or coerced, or accuse Israel of corrupting the process, or coercing the PLO (or himself) in any way.  Nor has President Mahmoud Abbas charged or complained that Oslo I conflicts with any peremptory norm of general international law to the detriment of the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian People.  Nor have we heard from President Mahmoud Abbas that the sole representative of the Palestinian People (himself --- representing their interests) was subject to some measure of force or lacking the competence to enter into such a negotiation or that the PLO was forced to renounced terrorism and recognized Israel’s right to exist in peace.
> 
> In fact, President Mahmoud Abbas did not suggest then and does not claim now that he or the PLO were subject to any military, political, economic pressures, or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of the Palestinian People.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> An Armistice Line, by the Armistice Agreement is not a permanent border. But the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Egypt is no more; having been replaced by Treaties.​
> So that if the Palestinians attack "Israel" they are not crossing any borders.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A view on Oslo:
> 
> *SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES*
> 
> *Article 49 Fraud*
> A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.
> 
> *Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
> A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.
> 
> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.
> 
> Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
> I am sure that more that one of those apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may be sure that one of these prohibitions apply, but I do not --- now, nor have I ever --- had knowledge of a credible accusation, supported by a reasonable source, suggesting that some inappropriate pressure or activity was brought upon President Mahmoud Abbas or the PLO that would have invalidated the Oslo Accord process.
> 
> Do you have such knowledge or evidence, or even a credible report of evidence from a first-hand source --- other than hearsay?
> 
> I would be most appreciative if you would enlighten me.
> *‘Abbas’s UN speech won’t announce end of PA’*
> *Israeli official says European diplomats were told Palestinian Authority president won’t terminate Oslo Accords*
> BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF September 21, 2015,
> 
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas last week told European diplomats that, contrary to rumors in the Arab press, he wouldn’t announce the dismantlement of the PA or annulment of the 1993 Oslo Accords in an upcoming UN General Assembly speech, Haaretz quoted an Israeli official saying Sunday.
> ---
> Under the 1993 Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority administers civil and security control over the West Bank’s major cities, which are delineated Area A. Area B is under PA civil control, but is under joint security control with Israel, and Area C — the bulk of the West Bank, is under Israeli control.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You spend too much time on Abbas.

He left the government in June of 2007.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Laila El Haddad*

**
**


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is merely just another example of your inability to recognize what the difference is between what you want to believe --- and --- what is actual reality.

What is it they say?  A picture is worth a 1000 words.



P F Tinmore said:


> You spend too much time on Abbas.  He left the government in June of 2007.


*(COMMENT)*

This is a picture of President Abbas and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon:


​
The Palestine Government in 2014:

​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?



UN report outlines how Hamas used kids as human shields

The headlines in most places were entirely predictable: “UN Says Israel Killed 44 Palestinians in Schools During Gaza War.” That was indeed one finding of a UN report published Monday — but only part of the story.

The report _also_ confirmed something Israel’s been saying all along: Hamas stored mortars and other weapons in at least three UN schools during last summer’s war and fired rockets at Israel from two of them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is merely just another example of your inability to recognize what the difference is between what you want to believe --- and --- what is actual reality.
> 
> What is it they say?  A picture is worth a 1000 words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You spend too much time on Abbas.  He left the government in June of 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a picture of President Abbas and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon:
> 
> View attachment 50961​
> The Palestine Government in 2014:
> 
> View attachment 50962​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OMG, a picture of Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

Nice government. I bet none of them were approved by parliament as their constitution requires.

That is like a US president swearing in a cabinet without senate approval.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Of course the Convention on Treaties does have an applications to the Oslo Accords.  That much we agree on.  But I have never heard President Mahmoud Abbas, who in 1993 was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Negotiator and signed the "Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements" (AKA:  Oslo I), even suggest that the proceeding were fraudulent or coerced, or accuse Israel of corrupting the process, or coercing the PLO (or himself) in any way.  Nor has President Mahmoud Abbas charged or complained that Oslo I conflicts with any peremptory norm of general international law to the detriment of the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian People.  Nor have we heard from President Mahmoud Abbas that the sole representative of the Palestinian People (himself --- representing their interests) was subject to some measure of force or lacking the competence to enter into such a negotiation or that the PLO was forced to renounced terrorism and recognized Israel’s right to exist in peace.
> 
> In fact, President Mahmoud Abbas did not suggest then and does not claim now that he or the PLO were subject to any military, political, economic pressures, or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of the Palestinian People.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't pay attention.  A treaty is but only ONE of *several ways* that territorial sovereignty may be arrived at.  We've gone over several different interpretations of those recognized ways.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as Israel has imposed borders prior to the existence of the Palestinian state and they are legal until such a time as the Palestinians keep their promise to negotiate mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Borders are not imposed. They are arrived to be treaty.
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to change their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, the Armistice Agreements (Article XII) stipulated that the agreed upon method would be by Peace Treaty _(outlined in the posting above)_.  Egypt and Jordan both made such Treaties.  There was no Armistice Agreement with the Palestinians, as they were represented by the Arab League.  Thus, any method is open.
> 
> Methods of Acquiring Territorial Soveignty include, but are not limited to:
> 
> *•  Cession* is the transfer of territory from one state to another usually by means of treaty;
> *•  Occupation* is the acquisition of territory that belongs to no state, or terra nullius;
> *•  Prescription* is the effective control of territory of another acquiescing state;
> *•  Operations of nature* is the acquisition of territory through natural processes like river accretion or volcanism;
> *•  Creation* is the process by which new land is reclaimed from the sea such as in the Netherlands.
> *•  Adjudication* and
> *•  Conquest*​
> While there are certainly arguments to be made concerning the international legitimacy of a couple of these modes (Occupation and Conquest as examples), they have all been used right up to the present day; including Occupation and Conquest.
> 
> In the case of the dispute with the Palestinians, the Oslo I _(Article V --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ and Oslo II _(XII --- responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders; --- For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C)(Article XXXI --- Permanent status negotiations - security arrangements, borders)_ are the operable factors.
> 
> The State of Palestine has no fixed borders with Israel, that Israel does not maintain and enforce; which are --- for all practical and realistic purposes, are recognized by every nation within or operating around in the region; to include the Arab League Nations.  Whether or not they agree that these are permanent boundaries, except those established by treaty with Jordan and Egypt, is inconsequential.  Every nation within or operating around in the region, to include the Arab League Nations, recognize the physical controls and political limitations --- and  --- abide by the border requirements and protections established by Israel.
> 
> The means of dispute resolution are defined in Article XV of the Oslo I Agreement --- and --- Article XXI of the Oslo II Agreement.  The Palestinians have essentially agreed to abide by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  This includes refraining from the threats or use of force as a means of solving territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A view on Oslo:
> 
> *SECTION 2. INVALIDITY OF TREATIES*
> 
> *Article 49 Fraud*
> A State or an international organization induced to conclude a treaty by the fraudulent conduct of a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke the fraud as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 50 Corruption Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> A State or an international organization the expression of whose consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by a negotiating State or a negotiating organization may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.
> 
> *Article 51 Coercion Of A Representative Of A State Or Of An International Organization*
> The expression by a State or an international organization of consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of the representative of that State or that organization through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.
> 
> *Article 52 Coercion Of A State Or Of An International Organization By The Threat Or Use Of Force*
> A treaty is void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Chatter of the United Nations.
> 
> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law. For the purposes of the present Convention, a peremptory norm of general international law is a norm accepted and recognized by the international community of States as a whole as a norm from which no derogation is permitted and which can be modified only by a subsequent norm of general international law having the same character.
> 
> Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations - Treaty Law​
> I am sure that more that one of those apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may be sure that one of these prohibitions apply, but I do not --- now, nor have I ever --- had knowledge of a credible accusation, supported by a reasonable source, suggesting that some inappropriate pressure or activity was brought upon President Mahmoud Abbas or the PLO that would have invalidated the Oslo Accord process.
> 
> Do you have such knowledge or evidence, or even a credible report of evidence from a first-hand source --- other than hearsay?
> 
> I would be most appreciative if you would enlighten me.
> *‘Abbas’s UN speech won’t announce end of PA’*
> *Israeli official says European diplomats were told Palestinian Authority president won’t terminate Oslo Accords*
> BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF September 21, 2015,
> 
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas last week told European diplomats that, contrary to rumors in the Arab press, he wouldn’t announce the dismantlement of the PA or annulment of the 1993 Oslo Accords in an upcoming UN General Assembly speech, Haaretz quoted an Israeli official saying Sunday.
> ---
> Under the 1993 Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority administers civil and security control over the West Bank’s major cities, which are delineated Area A. Area B is under PA civil control, but is under joint security control with Israel, and Area C — the bulk of the West Bank, is under Israeli control.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You spend too much time on Abbas.
> 
> He left the government in June of 2007.
Click to expand...





 Yet still the UN deals with him and the Palestinian people allow him to represent them on the international scene.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is merely just another example of your inability to recognize what the difference is between what you want to believe --- and --- what is actual reality.
> 
> What is it they say?  A picture is worth a 1000 words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You spend too much time on Abbas.  He left the government in June of 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a picture of President Abbas and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon:
> 
> View attachment 50961​
> The Palestine Government in 2014:
> 
> View attachment 50962​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, a picture of Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
> 
> Nice government. I bet none of them were approved by parliament as their constitution requires.
> 
> That is like a US president swearing in a cabinet without senate approval.
Click to expand...





 Have the Palestinian people voiced their disapproval of him representing them on the International stage, if not why not ?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is merely just another example of your inability to recognize what the difference is between what you want to believe --- and --- what is actual reality.
> 
> What is it they say?  A picture is worth a 1000 words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You spend too much time on Abbas.  He left the government in June of 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a picture of President Abbas and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon:
> 
> View attachment 50961​
> The Palestine Government in 2014:
> 
> View attachment 50962​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, a picture of Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
> 
> Nice government. I bet none of them were approved by parliament as their constitution requires.
> 
> That is like a US president swearing in a cabinet without senate approval.
Click to expand...

Yet, in your fantasy world, Abbas is not the "president" of an invented people with an invented identity which has become the worlds greatest welfare fraud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Harazeen*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the "Pal'istanians"?

Hamas:‎ *We bring our kids up “on love of Jihad and Martyrdom-death*”            

Source: Facebook page of Hamas' Ministry of ‎Interior‎, Apr. 10, 2015


----------



## rylah

So still no distinct palestinian culture those arabs still maintain?

You know just like any other nation that has real roots to the land.


----------



## rylah

How is this different from the 'palestinian folk culture'?


----------



## RoccoR

rylah, et al,

It is probably a very bad strategy to compare the Muslim riots and rock throwing in the US, UK, Italy, and Hungary with that of the Palestinians.  The tolerance for Muslim rioting and multiculturalism is rapidly coming a close.  


*No Charges For Cops Who Killed Rock-Throwing Immigrant*
Three police officers in Pasco, Washington, will not face charges for fatally shooting an immigrant worker who threatened them by throwing rocks last February, prosecutors announced Wednesday.​


rylah said:


> How is this different from the 'palestinian folk culture'?


*(COMMENT)*

In the UK, and across Europe _(Belgium and French in particular)_, the Radical and Extremist Muslims _(not unlike the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ are attempting to use force, intimidation, and coercion to dominate areas.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

Should I wait until they establish separate autonomous areas and claim sovereignty?

They're refugees, have the same culture and use the same tactics.
Many of the palestinians even called themselves Syrians once before the invention...


----------



## RoccoR

rylah, et al,

There is a very great dilemma.

Most of the Democracies and Multicultural Nations, face a serious problem between being tolerate of Muslims and allowing unrestricted Immigration, and that of maintain their Pride in Nationalism.  Most of Europe believes in the application of secular law _(the principle of separating government regulations and institutions from the control of religious institutions and clerics)_ and the protection of their individual rights.

However, this is clashing with the failure of the Muslim Immigrant to adapt and assimilate to the Western Culture and laws.  Several EU Countries are experiencing the establishment of NO-GO Zones run by local Muslim Extremist Gangs and enforcing their own brand of Sharia Law.  The UK has a particular problem with this, but it is by no means exclusive to them.  Hate Speech prohibitions are but one example of this dilemma.  It is perfectly acceptable for the Muslims to hold demonstrations and to march in mass  Since 2011, many observers noticed that Turkey _(a Muslim Country)_ suffered severe losses in their economy, tourism, and costs associated with the acceptance of more than 2 million refugees.  And again, this is not unique to Turkey.  Many EU countries are experiencing a heavy burden being placed on their infrastructure; the cost of which will never be recovered.



rylah said:


> Should I wait until they establish separate autonomous areas and claim sovereignty?
> 
> They're refugees, have the same culture and use the same tactics.
> Many of the palestinians even called themselves Syrians once before the invention...


*(COMMENT)*

Of course, the political concern on down the timeline and into the future (≈ 2 decades) is that the illegal aliens are going to eventually make EU citizens a minority on the continent. 

The Muslim Immigration is simply a search for a better way of life; but a flight from essentially failed Islamic States.  The Failed States of the Middle East and North Africa, is basically a Muslim Problem.  Libya was Muslim and Muslim, the same is true with the conflict in Syria, Iraq and the tension Iran.

The Democracies and Multicultural Nations are going to have to seriously consider the continued acceptance of Muslim Immigrants base on their demonstrated criminal behaviors and the inability to become part of the nation instead of an internal enemy.  Such political discussion will have to happen if the potential for conflicts is to be avoid; and for the survival of their nations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

I think that there's a clear weakness in Europe's conduct, clearly seen to anyone in the ME. The more they show it the more they welcome to be harassed. Just like muslims treat European women they consider 'easy'.  Both Israelis and Arabs laugh at the "political dialogue" option some still believe in.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is merely just another example of your inability to recognize what the difference is between what you want to believe --- and --- what is actual reality.
> 
> What is it they say?  A picture is worth a 1000 words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You spend too much time on Abbas.  He left the government in June of 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a picture of President Abbas and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon:
> 
> View attachment 50961​
> The Palestine Government in 2014:
> 
> View attachment 50962​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, a picture of Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
> 
> Nice government. I bet none of them were approved by parliament as their constitution requires.
> 
> That is like a US president swearing in a cabinet without senate approval.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have the Palestinian people voiced their disapproval of him representing them on the International stage, if not why not ?
Click to expand...

*Abbas out of options, out of synch with angry Palestinians*

Abbas has lost Palestinian public opinion, according to last week's poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, based on 1,270 respondents, with an error margin of 3 percentage points.

"Two-thirds of the public want him out, they demand that he resign," said pollster Shikaki.

Abbas out of options, out of synch with angry Palestinians


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is merely just another example of your inability to recognize what the difference is between what you want to believe --- and --- what is actual reality.
> 
> What is it they say?  A picture is worth a 1000 words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You spend too much time on Abbas.  He left the government in June of 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a picture of President Abbas and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon:
> 
> View attachment 50961​
> The Palestine Government in 2014:
> 
> View attachment 50962​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, a picture of Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
> 
> Nice government. I bet none of them were approved by parliament as their constitution requires.
> 
> That is like a US president swearing in a cabinet without senate approval.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have the Palestinian people voiced their disapproval of him representing them on the International stage, if not why not ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Abbas out of options, out of synch with angry Palestinians*
> 
> Abbas has lost Palestinian public opinion, according to last week's poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, based on 1,270 respondents, with an error margin of 3 percentage points.
> 
> "Two-thirds of the public want him out, they demand that he resign," said pollster Shikaki.
> 
> Abbas out of options, out of synch with angry Palestinians
Click to expand...

The sign has been seen long time on the wall...
They've never seemed to trust him anyway-calling him a collaborator.

Is this the next 'wise' palestinian choice toward self determination?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Marah Zahalka*

**


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Abbas out of options, out of synch with angry Palestinians. Abbas has lost Palestinian public opinion, according to last week's poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, based on 1,270 respondents, with an error margin of 3 percentage points. "Two-thirds of the public want him out, they demand that he resign," said pollster Shikaki. Abbas out of options, out of synch with angry Palestinians


Wake us up when they drag him to the gallows.


----------



## docmauser1

RoccoR said:


> rylah, et al,
> 
> It is probably a very bad strategy to compare the Muslim riots and rock throwing in the US, UK, Italy, and Hungary with that of the Palestinians.  The tolerance for Muslim rioting and multiculturalism is rapidly coming a close.
> 
> 
> *No Charges For Cops Who Killed Rock-Throwing Immigrant*
> Three police officers in Pasco, Washington, will not face charges for fatally shooting an immigrant worker who threatened them by throwing rocks last February, prosecutors announced Wednesday.​
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is this different from the 'palestinian folk culture'?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the UK, and across Europe _(Belgium and French in particular)_, the Radical and Extremist Muslims _(not unlike the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ are attempting to use force, intimidation, and coercion to dominate areas.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

"With hundreds of thousands more migrants set to pour into Sweden, a Bishop in Stockholm has proposed removing crosses from a Christian church and replacing them with Islamic symbols in order to cater for Muslims.
Bishop Eva Brunne wants to remove Christian symbols from the Seamen’s Church to make the building “more inviting” for Muslims, reports SVT, Sweden’s national public TV broadcaster.
“Leasing a room to people of other faiths, does not mean that we are not defenders of our own faith. Priests are called to proclaim Christ. We do that every day and in every meeting with people. But that does not mean that we are hostile toward people of other faiths,” wrote Brunne, attempting to justify the plan.
Brunne, who is the first openly lesbian bishop of a mainstream church in the world, wants the church to be treated more like a public airport, where prayer rooms are made available to Muslims, by removing Christian symbols and “marking the direction of Mecca.”" Paul Joseph Watson, Oct.5, 2015
Doubt that will promote "multiculturalism" among the hoi polloi.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Marah Zahalka*
> 
> **







 More of your islamonazi propaganda ?


----------



## Phoenall

docmauser1 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah, et al,
> 
> It is probably a very bad strategy to compare the Muslim riots and rock throwing in the US, UK, Italy, and Hungary with that of the Palestinians.  The tolerance for Muslim rioting and multiculturalism is rapidly coming a close.
> 
> 
> *No Charges For Cops Who Killed Rock-Throwing Immigrant*
> Three police officers in Pasco, Washington, will not face charges for fatally shooting an immigrant worker who threatened them by throwing rocks last February, prosecutors announced Wednesday.​
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is this different from the 'palestinian folk culture'?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the UK, and across Europe _(Belgium and French in particular)_, the Radical and Extremist Muslims _(not unlike the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ are attempting to use force, intimidation, and coercion to dominate areas.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "With hundreds of thousands more migrants set to pour into Sweden, a Bishop in Stockholm has proposed removing crosses from a Christian church and replacing them with Islamic symbols in order to cater for Muslims.
> Bishop Eva Brunne wants to remove Christian symbols from the Seamen’s Church to make the building “more inviting” for Muslims, reports SVT, Sweden’s national public TV broadcaster.
> “Leasing a room to people of other faiths, does not mean that we are not defenders of our own faith. Priests are called to proclaim Christ. We do that every day and in every meeting with people. But that does not mean that we are hostile toward people of other faiths,” wrote Brunne, attempting to justify the plan.
> Brunne, who is the first openly lesbian bishop of a mainstream church in the world, wants the church to be treated more like a public airport, where prayer rooms are made available to Muslims, by removing Christian symbols and “marking the direction of Mecca.”" Paul Joseph Watson, Oct.5, 2015
> Doubt that will promote "multiculturalism" among the hoi polloi.
Click to expand...






 Then she is an idiot and should be excommunicated for her views


----------



## Mindful

Whose fault?


The Egyptian Doctor That Successfully Diagnosed The Cause of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | JewTube.tv


----------



## rylah




----------



## RoccoR

rylan,  et al,

While I was in Europe, back in the 1980's, a young man still, an Israeli friend of mine explained it as a political statement with an agenda.



rylah said:


>



(COMMENT)

Like many people, HM the King understood that the territory to which the British Mandate applied was an artificial post-war construct _(hereinafter described as Palestine)_.  That same territory, from the border of Mesopotamia (Iraq) to the Mediterranean Sea was decided to be the object of the Mandate for Palestine; a portion of which His Majesty The King _(Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas, Emperor of India)_ would recognizes (by the 1946 Treaty of London) TransJordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Emir as the sovereign (Article I of the Treaty) of the "*Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan*". This, HM Hussein bin Tala, King of Jordan.


The Making of TransJordan

Emir Abdullah soon succeeded in loosening the British mandate over Transjordan with an Anglo-Transjordanian treaty. *On May 15, 1923*, Britain formally recognized the *Emirate of Transjordan* as a state under the leadership of Emir Abdullah. This angered the Zionists, as it *effectively severed Transjordan from Palestine* and so reduced the area of any future Jewish national home in the region.​
I think everyone of power understood what had occur.  While technically, the Emirate was still subject to supervision in under the Mandate, TransJordan was given a level of autonomy that no other delineation within the Mandate for Palestine, or any of the other Mandates.

I think people bring this just to start an argument.  But there are many that never knew that what became known as Jordan that was East of the Jordan River --- was also a portion of the territory under the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

Has anyone seen and have an opinion on the Article:

*Bring Back the Mandate*
OCTOBER 1, 2015, Times of Israel

Is this a commonly held wish among any of the various groups?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## docmauser1

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> Has anyone seen and have an opinion on the Article:
> *Bring Back the Mandate*
> OCTOBER 1, 2015, Times of Israel
> Is this a commonly held wish among any of the various groups?
> Most Respectfully,
> R


My best guess it's pretty common _now_.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> Has anyone seen and have an opinion on the Article:
> 
> *Bring Back the Mandate*
> OCTOBER 1, 2015, Times of Israel
> 
> Is this a commonly held wish among any of the various groups?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


From your link:

If parents controlled their wild children and prevented them from taking part in violent protests and activities, calm could quickly be restored.​
OK, but what is Israel's version of calm.

On the Palestinian side they can do nothing.

On the Israeli side the occupation and siege remain. Shooting at farmers and fishermen in Gaza remain. Home demolitions and land confiscation remains. The ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem continues.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al, Has anyone seen and have an opinion on the Article:
> *Bring Back the Mandate*
> OCTOBER 1, 2015, Times of Israel
> Is this a commonly held wish among any of the various groups?
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> If parents controlled their wild children and prevented them from taking part in violent protests and activities, calm could quickly be restored.​OK, but what is Israel's version of calm. On the Palestinian side they can do nothing. On the Israeli side the occupation and siege remain. Shooting at farmers and fishermen in Gaza remain. Home demolitions and land confiscation remains. The ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem continues.
Click to expand...

One of the tenets of the palistanian occupation is lying like a pornstar, of course.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Has anyone seen and have an opinion on the Article:
> 
> *Bring Back the Mandate*
> OCTOBER 1, 2015, Times of Israel
> 
> Is this a commonly held wish among any of the various groups?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> If parents controlled their wild children and prevented them from taking part in violent protests and activities, calm could quickly be restored.​
> OK, but what is Israel's version of calm.
> 
> On the Palestinian side they can do nothing.
> 
> On the Israeli side the occupation and siege remain. Shooting at farmers and fishermen in Gaza remain. Home demolitions and land confiscation remains. The ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem continues.
Click to expand...





 No riots, no rockets, no violence, no murders and no propaganda.

 That is the fault of the Palestinians as they refuse to take the next step towards free determination.

 Occupation and blockade are legal and you cant produce any unbiased links to say otherwise. Prove they are farmers and fishermen and not smugglers and terrorists. Any structure used for military purposes in occupied territory can be demolished. What land has been confiscated covered by a title deed issued prior to 1948 ?   What ethnic cleansing other than the Palestinian cleansing of ethnic Christians ?


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> Has anyone seen and have an opinion on the Article:
> 
> *Bring Back the Mandate*
> OCTOBER 1, 2015, Times of Israel
> 
> Is this a commonly held wish among any of the various groups?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



I don't see how destroying more houses will solve anything, especially when we see that they are willing to die with the houses parents/wives/ children. We just have to stop trying to act and look like a western country- why are Arabs terrified by Druze?

All I can say is that the terrorists in the prisons are treated many degrees better than the elders who survived the Holocaust, thanks to human-rights hippies. It's totally absurd, and there're much more voices raising up for Ben David than ever...Israelis know what's coming and the limits of their hand tied govt. that tries to play by European/Western rules against those who care no for any rules like that.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

who are the Pal'istanians?


Parents of murderer of 2:  “I am blessing my son, on his Martyrdom-death” “He avenged [the women at Al-Aqsa] against the impure enemies" - Video

Mother of murderer Muhannad Halabi: “I speak while I am blessing my son, on his Martyrdom-death (Shahada), and I am proud that he died to defend the women of Palestine…”

Muhannad Halabi killed 2 Israelis, Rabbi Nehemiah Lavi and Aharon Bennett, and injured Bennett’s wife, Adele, and their 2-year-old son in a stabbing attack in the Old City of Jerusalem on Oct. 3, 2015. Following the attack, he was shot and killed by Israeli security forces. Prior to his attack, in a post to his private Facebook page, the terrorist referred to recent terror attacks as part of a "third Intifada,” and said that it was a response to Israel’s actions at the Al-Aqsa Mosque and that the Palestinian people would not “succumb to humiliation.” This is a reference to the PA libel that Israel is plotting to take over and destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque and to the PA's portrayal of Jews praying on the Temple Mount as "an invasion of the Al-Aqsa Mosque."


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?






 They are Syrians not palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Syrians not palestinians
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, not that old canard again.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are Syrians not palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, not that old canard again.
Click to expand...






 You cant handle the truth can you, they even call themselves Syrians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noura Erakat*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noura Erakat*






AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove
Click to expand...

What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.
Click to expand...






Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap
Click to expand...

What did she say that was antisemitic?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
Click to expand...





 What did she say that wasn't ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
Click to expand...

Everything.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND !      what does your biased and unbalanced video prove
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything.
Click to expand...






 An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.

 To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean unbalanced. Israel had its liar present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
Click to expand...

That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.

So why are you playing the antisemite card?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said unbalanced and biased as the islamonazi terrorist apologist was speaking her usual anti semitic racist crap
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
Click to expand...





So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
Click to expand...

What liar gave you that load of crap?

What proof do you have?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> 
> 
> Everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
Click to expand...






Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS

 Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.

Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.



http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/noura-erakat-wages-lawfare-on-israel

The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.

Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your favourite site Wikipedia if you look
Click to expand...

Nice duck, but what else can you do when you are full of shit?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that was antisemitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
Click to expand...

I know it is your job to slime all Palestinians, But Noura Erakat defends the rights of Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> 
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your favourite site Wikipedia if you look
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck, but what else can you do when you are full of shit?
Click to expand...





 How is it a duck when it details her anti semitism . You do know she is related to a hamas terrorist don't you ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did she say that wasn't ?
> 
> 
> 
> Everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know it is your job to slime all Palestinians, But Noura Erakat defends the rights of Jews.
Click to expand...





Nope cant see or hear her defending the rights of Jews to all of Jewish Palestine and the right to live peacefully free from islamonazi terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
> 
> Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.
> 
> Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat Wages Lawfare on Israel
> 
> The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.
> 
> Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza
Click to expand...

This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.


Where is the antisemitism?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> An islamonazi propagandist that does not spout anti Semitism is even more rare than a hen with gold teeth.
> 
> To you it may not be anti Semitism but to others all she ever says is anti semetism, you can tell because her mouth is moving
> 
> 
> 
> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
> 
> Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.
> 
> Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat Wages Lawfare on Israel
> 
> The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.
> 
> Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.
> 
> 
> Where is the antisemitism?
Click to expand...






 Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> That is strange. She did not mention Jews. She did not even mention Zionists.
> 
> So why are you playing the antisemite card?
> 
> 
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> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
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> Click to expand...
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
> 
> Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.
> 
> Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat Wages Lawfare on Israel
> 
> The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.
> 
> Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.
> 
> 
> Where is the antisemitism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.
Click to expand...

Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.

You are full of shit as usual.

Nice duck though.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> So what she is a known and proven anti semite that is all I need to know
> 
> 
> 
> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
> 
> Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.
> 
> Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat Wages Lawfare on Israel
> 
> The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.
> 
> Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.
> 
> 
> Where is the antisemitism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.
> 
> You are full of shit as usual.
> 
> Nice duck though.
Click to expand...






 Same thing still an islamonazi terrorist


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek *

**


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## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?*Lamis Deek *
> **


"Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."
Larry Miller.


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## montelatici

Leave it to a Jew to keep non-Jews caged in outdoor prisons and then claim they can't accomplish anything.


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Leave it to a Jew to keep non-Jews caged in outdoor prisons and then claim they can't accomplish anything.







 Isnt that what the US does to its criminals, and then se have the prisons used to house Palestinians in gaza, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon. Now if you hate the wahabi's so much why aren't you being as racist and as nasty to these people as you are the Jews.


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> What liar gave you that load of crap?
> 
> What proof do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
> 
> Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.
> 
> Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat Wages Lawfare on Israel
> 
> The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.
> 
> Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.
> 
> 
> Where is the antisemitism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.
> 
> You are full of shit as usual.
> 
> Nice duck though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing still an islamonazi terrorist
Click to expand...

Sour grapes. Noura Erakat is an intelligent, articulate, well educated, and attractive young woman.

Israel has *nobody* of that caliber. All you have is third grade name calling.


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## Hollie

Who the Pal'istanians?

All media

PA salaries to terrorists

In April 2011, the Palestinian Authority Registry published a Government Resolution granting all Palestinian prisoners imprisoned in Israel for security and terror-related offenses a monthly salary from the PA (_Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 15, 2011). This new resolution, called PA Government Resolution of 2010, numbers 21 and 23, formalized what has long been a PA practice.




Lovely, lovely people. 

The worlds greatest welfare fraud. Infidel dollars heaped on retrograde social misfits who are incapable of building a functioning society.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Noura Erakat–The newest UCLA sleeper cell | THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
> 
> Dinner theatre on this night consisted of blood libel from terrorist enabler Noura Erakat.
> 
> Noura Erakat is the niece of terrorist Saeb Erakat, whose responsibilities included everything from supporting Jihad against infidels to finding sexual partners for Yassir Arafat, be they male human, female human, or other mammals of either gender.
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat Wages Lawfare on Israel
> 
> The niece of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) chief negotiator Saeb Erakat, Erakat’s tone was calm and measured, her demeanor pleasant, and her partisanship unmistakable, even when couched in the dispassionate language of international human rights law.
> 
> Seated in a conference room before an audience of approximately forty, many of them fellow academics, Erakat began by noting that because this was “not a legal audience,” she would depart from her planned presentation and instead focus on “setting the framework for the lead-up” to the war and on providing “the legal and political context” for the situation in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.
> 
> 
> Where is the antisemitism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.
> 
> You are full of shit as usual.
> 
> Nice duck though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing still an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sour grapes. Noura Erakat is an intelligent, articulate, well educated, and attractive young woman.
> 
> Israel has *nobody* of that caliber. All you have is third grade name calling.
Click to expand...






 You don't even have that, and islamonazi propaganda is still islamonazi propaganda no matter what you wrap it in.


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> This is the conference that the asshole from jihadwatch was whining about.
> 
> 
> Where is the antisemitism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.
> 
> You are full of shit as usual.
> 
> Nice duck though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing still an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sour grapes. Noura Erakat is an intelligent, articulate, well educated, and attractive young woman.
> 
> Israel has *nobody* of that caliber. All you have is third grade name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even have that, and islamonazi propaganda is still islamonazi propaganda no matter what you wrap it in.
Click to expand...

You still have nothing she said that was antisemitic.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
> Coming from the mouth of the niece of a proven hamas terrorist leader.
> 
> 
> 
> Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.
> 
> You are full of shit as usual.
> 
> Nice duck though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing still an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sour grapes. Noura Erakat is an intelligent, articulate, well educated, and attractive young woman.
> 
> Israel has *nobody* of that caliber. All you have is third grade name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even have that, and islamonazi propaganda is still islamonazi propaganda no matter what you wrap it in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still have nothing she said that was antisemitic.
Click to expand...







 This is subjective and to you she says nothing derogatory about the Jews because you don't want to see it. The trick is to replace her nominator with Palestinian or arab muslim and see if it changes the meaning, when it does then her words are anti semitic Jew hatred


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Saeb Erekat is a member of Fatah.
> 
> You are full of shit as usual.
> 
> Nice duck though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing still an islamonazi terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sour grapes. Noura Erakat is an intelligent, articulate, well educated, and attractive young woman.
> 
> Israel has *nobody* of that caliber. All you have is third grade name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even have that, and islamonazi propaganda is still islamonazi propaganda no matter what you wrap it in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still have nothing she said that was antisemitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is subjective and to you she says nothing derogatory about the Jews because you don't want to see it. The trick is to replace her nominator with Palestinian or arab muslim and see if it changes the meaning, when it does then her words are anti semitic Jew hatred
Click to expand...

Perhaps you could point out what she said that was antisemitic rather than to just call names.


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## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

UNRWA workers hail terror attacks on social media, NGO says

Palestinian employees of a UN refugee agency are inciting Palestinians to commit terror attacks against Israelis from social media accounts on which they explicitly identify as United Nations workers, a report from a UN watchdog published Friday charged.



Lovely, lovely folks. 

Let's remember that UNRWA is a UN welfare agency dedicated exclusively to maintain the the myth of Pal'istanians, an invented people with an invented "nationality". 

The "employees" of the welfare scam are overwhelmingly so-called Pal'istanians and the Islamist terrorists of Hamas are represented on the payroll of that welfare scam.

And get this; these lowlifes want a state of their own.


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## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> UNRWA workers hail terror attacks on social media, NGO says
> 
> Palestinian employees of a UN refugee agency are inciting Palestinians to commit terror attacks against Israelis from social media accounts on which they explicitly identify as United Nations workers, a report from a UN watchdog published Friday charged.
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely folks.
> 
> Let's remember that UNRWA is a UN welfare agency dedicated exclusively to maintain the the myth of Pal'istanians, an invented people with an invented "nationality".
> 
> The "employees" of the welfare scam are overwhelmingly so-called Pal'istanians and the Islamist terrorists of Hamas are represented on the payroll of that welfare scam.
> 
> And get this; these lowlifes want a state of their own.







 According to monte this must be official P.A. policy and as such they should be believed and attacked on sight


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Hanan Ashrawi*

**
Of course the Lame Stream Media likes to frame the discussion with Israeli talking points.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi*
> 
> **
> Of course the Lame Stream Media likes to frame the discussion with Israeli talking points.







 only in your fantasy world


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Queen Rania*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

*PA: Rock-throwing leads to victory and freedom - PMW Bulletins

Fatah: Rock-throwing is "the will of the people"*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
In a show of support and encouragement of the current Palestinian riots and rock-throwing, the official PA daily printed the above cartoon showing a masked Palestinian playing an oud whose neck ends in a "V" for "victory" and whose strings form a slingshot holding a rock. The title of the piece he is playing off his sheet music is "Freedom." [_Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 9, 2015


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## montelatici

Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.


Yes, how courageous that you gee-had wannabes urge women and children to risk their lives to placate your Joooooo hatreds.

You are the gee-had of none, the cowardly gee-hadi, the keyboard gee-hadi.


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## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.


Less than lethal weapons from Palestine.

Rubber coated rocks.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.
> 
> 
> 
> Less than lethal weapons from Palestine.
> 
> Rubber coated rocks.
Click to expand...






 Those are polished stones and not rocks, the Islamic laws make a distinction between the two. The rocks have jagged edges that can and will cut the skin causing injuries. That is why they are used for execution of women so they bleed to death. These would just cause bruising and possibly fractures


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## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, how courageous that you gee-had wannabes urge women and children to risk their lives to placate your Joooooo hatreds.
> 
> You are the gee-had of none, the cowardly gee-hadi, the keyboard gee-hadi.
Click to expand...


Generally, women and children participate in fighting an oppressive Nazi or NeoNazi regime:

Deborah Samson was one of many women that fought the British during the American Revolutionary War.  

Jewish children, in particular, were used to fight the Germans. To wit:

"Jewish youth resistance to the Nazis in World War II, both in the Warsaw Ghetto and in partisan groups in eastern Poland. Here the participation of children in armed conflict is usually regarded as nothing short of heroic. Jewish children and youth who were members of Zionist and socialist youth groups formed the core of armed resistance, and many young Jews fleeing for their lives found safety through their absorption into partisan units operating in the forests of Eastern Europe."

FDU Magazine Online — Child Soldiers: Victims or Heroes?

 Were these instances of cowardliness to you?  Or is it cowardliness only when the Palestinian women and children are involved?

A clown dancer is what you are.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, how courageous that you gee-had wannabes urge women and children to risk their lives to placate your Joooooo hatreds.
> 
> You are the gee-had of none, the cowardly gee-hadi, the keyboard gee-hadi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Generally, women and children participate in fighting an oppressive Nazi or NeoNazi regime:
> 
> Deborah Samson was one of many women that fought the British during the American Revolutionary War.
> 
> Jewish children, in particular, were used to fight the Germans. To wit:
> 
> "Jewish youth resistance to the Nazis in World War II, both in the Warsaw Ghetto and in partisan groups in eastern Poland. Here the participation of children in armed conflict is usually regarded as nothing short of heroic. Jewish children and youth who were members of Zionist and socialist youth groups formed the core of armed resistance, and many young Jews fleeing for their lives found safety through their absorption into partisan units operating in the forests of Eastern Europe."
> 
> FDU Magazine Online — Child Soldiers: Victims or Heroes?
> 
> Were these instances of cowardliness to you?  Or is it cowardliness only when the Palestinian women and children are involved?
> 
> A clown dancer is what you are.
Click to expand...





 So you would have no problems with the decent Christians fighting against the neo Nazi Catholic religion then, should stop many cases of child abuse and rape by Catholic priests and allow the women raped by disease riddled men to cleanse their bodies of the filth inside them.


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ashira Ramadan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ashira and friends.*


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad, but all the Palestinians have to combat U.S. provided high tech weapons are rocks.  Courageous freedom fighters. The non-whites in South Africa were also out gunned, but guess what.  They won.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, how courageous that you gee-had wannabes urge women and children to risk their lives to placate your Joooooo hatreds.
> 
> You are the gee-had of none, the cowardly gee-hadi, the keyboard gee-hadi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Generally, women and children participate in fighting an oppressive Nazi or NeoNazi regime:
> 
> Deborah Samson was one of many women that fought the British during the American Revolutionary War.
> 
> Jewish children, in particular, were used to fight the Germans. To wit:
> 
> "Jewish youth resistance to the Nazis in World War II, both in the Warsaw Ghetto and in partisan groups in eastern Poland. Here the participation of children in armed conflict is usually regarded as nothing short of heroic. Jewish children and youth who were members of Zionist and socialist youth groups formed the core of armed resistance, and many young Jews fleeing for their lives found safety through their absorption into partisan units operating in the forests of Eastern Europe."
> 
> FDU Magazine Online — Child Soldiers: Victims or Heroes?
> 
> Were these instances of cowardliness to you?  Or is it cowardliness only when the Palestinian women and children are involved?
> 
> A clown dancer is what you are.
Click to expand...

That was a lot of cutting and pasting for no apparent purpose, except to dodge and sidestep.

The Jews in Nazi occupied Europe were resisting the imposition of a virulently racist and fascist ideology. 

That is exactly what the Israelis are fighting. Islamo-fascism holds to much of the ideology that was embibed in Nazi fascism.


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinians in Israeli occupied Palestine are resisting the imposition of a virulently racist and fascist ideology, Zionism.  Zionism is Nazism where Jews, rather than Aryans, are the master race.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians in Israeli occupied Palestine are resisting the imposition of a virulently racist and fascist ideology, Zionism.  Zionism is Nazism where Jews, rather than Aryans, are the master race.


I'll require you to post your MasterCard number as I'm going to bill you for your plagiarism of my post.


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Diana Buttu*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?
*Jennifer Jajeh*

**


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## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Israeli children taught to kill Arabs.

Questioner: What do see yourself doing?
Kid: Killing Arabs


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Israeli children taught to kill Arabs.
> 
> Questioner: What do see yourself doing?
> Kid: Killing Arabs



And more of your pointless, unattributed copy and paste because your tender islamo-feelings are hurt.


----------



## Hollie

Nominee for Islamic mother of the year award:


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## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Nominee for Islamic mother of the year award:



And more of your pointless, unattributed copy and paste because your tender Zio-feelings are hurt.


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## montelatici

“People who call themselves supporters of Israel are actually supporters of its moral degeneration and ultimate destruction.” 
-Noam Chomsky


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> “People who call themselves supporters of Israel are actually supporters of its moral degeneration and ultimate destruction.”
> -Noam Chomsky


Pallywood Productions, Inc.?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Martyrs rewarded with 72 Virgins | PMW

In order to create willingness among the population to confront Israel violently, the PA took advantage of the ancient tradition in Islam, _Shahada _or_ Death_ _for Allah,_ which mandates Muslims to aspire to die in combat for Islam. The PA told their people that this ancient tradition also applies to them in confrontation with Israel today.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> “People who call themselves supporters of Israel are actually supporters of its moral degeneration and ultimate destruction.”
> -Noam Chomsky
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood Productions, Inc.?
Click to expand...


Naw.  Australian Broadcasting Corporation.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Martyrs rewarded with 72 Virgins | PMW
> 
> In order to create willingness among the population to confront Israel violently, the PA took advantage of the ancient tradition in Islam, _Shahada _or_ Death_ _for Allah,_ which mandates Muslims to aspire to die in combat for Islam. The PA told their people that this ancient tradition also applies to them in confrontation with Israel today.



But George Habash and Christian Palestinians of the PFLP was/are not Muslim.  George Habash, a medical doctor, was the Christian founder of the PFLP.  Why do you insist on presenting the Palestinians as only Muslim?  Do you think that it will help keep American Christians from thinking about why they are supporting Jews instead of Christians?  George Habash did not think highly of Arafat or the PLO.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

PA TV: Palestine is a mother who gives birth to Martyrs, mother of Martyr rejects ideal


----------



## montelatici

There are reasonable Jews, for sure.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

George Carlin.  He would be considered an antisemite by our resident ZioNazis.

"Israeli murderers are called commandos.  Arab commandos are called terrorists."


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Watch how disgusting Israeli Jews humiliate this Arab family.  They are far worse than the Boers in South Africa.  



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Why wouldn't Palestinians want to fight an occupying army of Jews? I don't get your point.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Why wouldn't Palestinians want to fight an occupying army of Jews? I don't get your point.


There's very little you get.


Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Good. They should not kneel to the Jews.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Good. They should not kneel to the Jews.


You muhammedan (swish) worshippers understand _submission_.

You will kneel and accept your lot in life.

Who are the Pal'istaians?


----------



## montelatici

Israel worships their terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Israel worships their terrorists.


You apparently missed it, Habib. This thread is about "who are the Pal'istanians, not another thread for to spam with expressions of your ideologically inspired Jooooooooo hatreds.

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Haidar Eid*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*RAFEEF ZIADAH*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Daoud*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

* Lamis Deek*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rula Jebreal*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians.

Mother of the year nominee. 



Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Paolestiniabns?

*Ghada karmi *

**


----------



## montelatici

Death cultists.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Death cultists.


Israelis are not Pal'istanians, Habib.


----------



## montelatici

Dancing as bombs kill women and children while screaming "your son is next" is a sure sign of a death cult.  Israelis are death cultists.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

“When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.”

“If we don’t kill, we will cease to exist. The only thing that concerns me is how to ensure that the boys and men who are going to have to do the killing will be able to return home to their families and be normal human beings.”

Arnon Soffer-The Arab Counter

- See more at: ‘NYT’ journey to Israel/Palestine to be led by Israeli ‘expert’ who called on countrymen to ‘kill and kill’ Palestinians


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istonians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Leila Sansour*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

The question is, _what_ are the Pal'istanians. Fertilizer, of course.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istonians?

Sing it for muhammud(swish)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'estinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Samah Sabawi*


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians in Israeli occupied Palestine are resisting the imposition of a virulently racist and fascist ideology, Zionism.  Zionism is Nazism where Jews, rather than Aryans, are the master race.








 And yet you refuse to provide any concrete evidence of your RACIST claims other than those spread by islamonazi propagandists and LIARS. Why is this, where is the evidence from respected international bodies proving that Zionism is Nazism and fascism ?


----------



## Phoenall

Just another illegal immigrant


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> And yet you refuse to provide any concrete evidence of your RACIST claims other than those spread by islamonazi propagandists and LIARS. Why is this, where is the evidence from respected international bodies proving that Zionism is Nazism and fascism ?


Right here...

*Nazi Propaganda was Based on What Zionists Said*
_
*Hateful views of Jews as being subhuman did not have to be invented by Nazi theorists such as Hitler*, Goebbels, Rosenberg and Streicher. *This ideology was simply adapted from statements of political Zionists such as those found in the writings of the Zionist Yehezkel Kaufman in 1933.*

In 1920 there were *statements hostile to Jews* expressed at Heidelberg University. These statements, arguing that Jews of Germany had caused the turmoil that followed the war; that the Jews of Germany had nothing in common with Germans, and that Germans had the right to prevent the Jews of Germany from intruding into the affairs of their volk *were not made by Adolf Hitler *in Mein Kampf, *but by Nahum Goldmann, who went in to become the President of the World Zionist Organization and head of the World Jewish Congress*, and, indisputably, the most influential political Zionist in the world, second only to the Prime Minister of the State of Israel.

In 1921, Germans in Germany were told that:

“We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German;* whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“.*_​
And then there is this...

_*During World War II, the Lehi organization, an offshoot of Begin’s Irgun that was headed by Yitzchak Shamir sought an alliance with Nazis!* The following is a quote from the writings of the Lehi in their contact with the Nazis:

"*The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich* would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East ... *The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany's side* ... The cooperation of the Israeli freedom movement would also be in line with one of the recent speeches of the German Reich Chancellor, in which Herr Hitler stressed that any combination and any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it."
_​I could go on, but you get the picture.  Zionism needs anti-Semitism, like a whore needs lust.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?








 Don't see you posting any videos of Jewish people who are also Palestinian,  is this because you are biased against the Jews do you think


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you refuse to provide any concrete evidence of your RACIST claims other than those spread by islamonazi propagandists and LIARS. Why is this, where is the evidence from respected international bodies proving that Zionism is Nazism and fascism ?
> 
> 
> 
> Right here...
> 
> *Nazi Propaganda was Based on What Zionists Said*
> _
> *Hateful views of Jews as being subhuman did not have to be invented by Nazi theorists such as Hitler*, Goebbels, Rosenberg and Streicher. *This ideology was simply adapted from statements of political Zionists such as those found in the writings of the Zionist Yehezkel Kaufman in 1933.*
> 
> In 1920 there were *statements hostile to Jews* expressed at Heidelberg University. These statements, arguing that Jews of Germany had caused the turmoil that followed the war; that the Jews of Germany had nothing in common with Germans, and that Germans had the right to prevent the Jews of Germany from intruding into the affairs of their volk *were not made by Adolf Hitler *in Mein Kampf, *but by Nahum Goldmann, who went in to become the President of the World Zionist Organization and head of the World Jewish Congress*, and, indisputably, the most influential political Zionist in the world, second only to the Prime Minister of the State of Israel.
> 
> In 1921, Germans in Germany were told that:
> 
> “We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German;* whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“.*_​
> And then there is this...
> 
> _*During World War II, the Lehi organization, an offshoot of Begin’s Irgun that was headed by Yitzchak Shamir sought an alliance with Nazis!* The following is a quote from the writings of the Lehi in their contact with the Nazis:
> 
> "*The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich* would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East ... *The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany's side* ... The cooperation of the Israeli freedom movement would also be in line with one of the recent speeches of the German Reich Chancellor, in which Herr Hitler stressed that any combination and any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it."
> _​I could go on, but you get the picture.  Zionism needs anti-Semitism, like a whore needs lust.
Click to expand...






 Hardly a valid source for any information on the subject, once again relying on a biased source. The true torah jews are not a respected international body are they. They are a minority group from another minority group


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Hardly a valid source for any information on the subject, once again relying on a biased source. The true torah jews are not a respected international body are they. They are a minority group from another minority group


Doesn't matter what the source is.  Statements by Zionists are part of the historical record.  You can't un-say what they said.  And you can't claim they didn't say it.

Embrace the horror.  If it wasn't for the Zionist's big mouth, there wouldn't have been a Holocaust.  After they declared war on Hitler and started a world-wide boycott of German products (not unlike the BDS movement now), _*it was on*_.  Those two acts, made Hitler go ballistic on the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly a valid source for any information on the subject, once again relying on a biased source. The true torah jews are not a respected international body are they. They are a minority group from another minority group
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter what the source is.  Statements by Zionists are part of the historical record.  You can't un-say what they said.  And you can't claim they didn't say it.
> 
> Embrace the horror.  If it wasn't for the Zionist's big mouth, there wouldn't have been a Holocaust.  After they declared war on Hitler and started a world-wide boycott of German products (not unlike the BDS movement now), _*it was on*_.  Those two acts, made Hitler go ballistic on the Jews.
Click to expand...







 It does matter if the source is the only evidence as in many of the quotes and is based on lies and/or propaganda. I can claim they never said or claim that the words were cherry picked and manipulated if I provide the evidence to show this then your source is wrong.

 How do you arrive at that, what is your evidence as the holocaust started way back in the 1930's before the Jews declared a war on Hitler. So time for you to look at the real evidence and not read the bits that support your claims. The holocaust started in 1933, the declaration of war was in 1936


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't see you posting any videos of Jewish people who are also Palestinian,  is this because you are biased against the Jews do you think
Click to expand...

Do you mean like Ariel Sharon? You're right.

But I have posted others.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't see you posting any videos of Jewish people who are also Palestinian,  is this because you are biased against the Jews do you think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like Ariel Sharon? You're right.
> 
> But I have posted others.
Click to expand...





 But only in a context were you can demonise the Jews


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> It does matter if the source is the only evidence as in many of the quotes and is based on lies and/or propaganda. I can claim they never said or claim that the words were cherry picked and manipulated if I provide the evidence to show this then your source is wrong.


If you provide the evidence?  But you don't.  You just "say" its wrong.



Phoenall said:


> How do you arrive at that, what is your evidence as the holocaust started way back in the 1930's before the Jews declared a war on Hitler. So time for you to look at the real evidence and not read the bits that support your claims. The holocaust started in 1933, the declaration of war was in 1936


Check out the date...






...Zionist statements against Hitler and Germany, were made in 1933.  The same year, as you just admitted, that was the start of the Holocaust.

_*In March, 1933*, when Hitler became the undisputed leader of Germany and began restricting the rights of German Jews, *the American Jewish Congress announced a massive protest at Madison Square Garden and called for an American boycott of German goods.*_

_*On March 24, 1933*, the London Daily Express published an article announcing that the *Jews had already launched their boycott against Germany and described a forthcoming "holy war"*. The Express urged Jews everywhere to boycott German goods and demonstrate against German economic interests.

The Express said that *Germany was "now confronted with an international boycott of its trade*, its finances, and its industry....In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish businessmen are united to go on an economic crusade."

The article went on, *"worldwide preparations are being made to organize protest demonstrations."*_​
How could you be so irresponsible?  Zionists safe in other country's, shoot their big mouths off, which results in putting all Jews around the world in peril and Jews in Germany in danger.

_Hitler's March 28, 1933 speech ordering a boycott against Jewish stores and goods *was in direct response to the declaration of war on Germany by the worldwide Jewish leadership*._​It's clear to me now why all you fuckers try to turn everything into something about Jew-hate.  That's your recruiting tool!  Without it, it's harder to persuade Jews to move to Palestine.
​


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


Terrorists who butchered 5 rabbis exemplified the meaning of heroism  - PMW Bulletins


Celebrating "the first anniversary" of the Har Nof synagogue massacre, the independent Palestinian news agency Wattan dedicated a full article to praising the two terrorists who with guns and butcher's knives slaughtered 5 Israeli worshippers, and killed a policeman last year. The article referred to the horrific killings as "the heroic operation" and an "epos written by the heroes."

"Today is the first anniversary of the Martyrdom of... the heroes Ghassan and Uday Abu Jamal, who carried out the heroic Dir Yassin operation (i.e., Har Nof neighborhood of Jerusalem), which led to the death of 6 settlers... *Ghassan and Uday Abu Jamal exemplified the meaning of heroism for the homeland... They set out to protect it from the defilement of the thieving occupation, and died as Martyrs on the path of honor. Today is the first anniversary of the epos written by the heroes*."
[_Wattan_, Nov. 18, 2015]


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does matter if the source is the only evidence as in many of the quotes and is based on lies and/or propaganda. I can claim they never said or claim that the words were cherry picked and manipulated if I provide the evidence to show this then your source is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> If you provide the evidence?  But you don't.  You just "say" its wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you arrive at that, what is your evidence as the holocaust started way back in the 1930's before the Jews declared a war on Hitler. So time for you to look at the real evidence and not read the bits that support your claims. The holocaust started in 1933, the declaration of war was in 1936
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the date...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Zionist statements against Hitler and Germany, were made in 1933.  The same year, as you just admitted, that was the start of the Holocaust.
> 
> _*In March, 1933*, when Hitler became the undisputed leader of Germany and began restricting the rights of German Jews, *the American Jewish Congress announced a massive protest at Madison Square Garden and called for an American boycott of German goods.*_
> 
> _*On March 24, 1933*, the London Daily Express published an article announcing that the *Jews had already launched their boycott against Germany and described a forthcoming "holy war"*. The Express urged Jews everywhere to boycott German goods and demonstrate against German economic interests.
> 
> The Express said that *Germany was "now confronted with an international boycott of its trade*, its finances, and its industry....In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish businessmen are united to go on an economic crusade."
> 
> The article went on, *"worldwide preparations are being made to organize protest demonstrations."*_​
> How could you be so irresponsible?  Zionists safe in other country's, shoot their big mouths off, which results in putting all Jews around the world in peril and Jews in Germany in danger.
> 
> _Hitler's March 28, 1933 speech ordering a boycott against Jewish stores and goods *was in direct response to the declaration of war on Germany by the worldwide Jewish leadership*._​It's clear to me now why all you fuckers try to turn everything into something about Jew-hate.  That's your recruiting tool!  Without it, it's harder to persuade Jews to move to Palestine.
> ​
Click to expand...






 Did you read your link that stated    " All Israel is uniting " when did Israel come into existence again ?

 Anti semitic reporting because it was the done thing back then. And it was only the Jews that boycotted German goods, that were not sold in the high street in most nations. You see billy boy they had no goods to sell other than gas chambers, concentration camps, killing machines etc.

 By the way you are more of a Jew than I will ever be, that is why you hate the Jews so much


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Did you read your link that stated    " All Israel is uniting " when did Israel come into existence again ?


Let's not lose sight of the fact that you were wrong and I was right.  You said Jewish leaders didn't make anti-German statements until 1936 and I proved they were said in 1933.  Which goes back to my earlier claim that  Zionists are partly responsible for the Holocaust.




Phoenall said:


> Anti semitic reporting because it was the done thing back then. And it was only the Jews that boycotted German goods, that were not sold in the high street in most nations. You see billy boy they had no goods to sell other than gas chambers, concentration camps, killing machines etc.


This is your pathetic attempt at creating a strawman, to mask the fact you don't know WTF you're talking about, after you just got bitch-slapped!




Phoenall said:


> By the way you are more of a Jew than I will ever be, that is why you hate the Jews so much


There should be a new term for statements like that.

They should call it................_*a Phoenoquial!*_


----------



## jillian

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
Click to expand...


only a lowlife anti-semite would assert that, much less believe it.

dismissed.


----------



## montelatici

jillian said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> only a lowlife anti-semite would assert that, much less believe it.
> 
> dismissed.
Click to expand...


The Samson Option is well-known.  Why would you not believe it?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Palestinian women are unique, make "cries of joy" upon son's death, says PA minister  - PMW Bulletins

*PA Minister of Women's Affairs:
The Palestinian woman is different 
from all other women in the world
 "as [only] she receives the news of her son's Martyrdom 
with cries of joy*"


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> only a lowlife anti-semite would assert that, much less believe it.
> 
> dismissed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Samson Option is well-known.  Why would you not believe it?
Click to expand...






 Because it is low life Nazi's like you that advocate Israel using the Samson option, Israel has never even mentioned it


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*RULA JEBREAL*

**
**


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Actually, I like Rula Jebreal!  I think that she has both coherent ideas and holds sound/valid positions.  I don't necessary agree with a majority of her perspective, but I think that she is someone that could sit down with and talk about the issues.   She is a well versed foreign policy analyst.  Worth listening to.



P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> *RULA JEBREAL*


*(COMMENT)*

However, in this case (the video) I agree more than I disagree over the substantive matters.  

But I would like to address one of her more recent comments.  

“For you, we [Muslims] are all jihadists,” Jebreal said to Maher.​
I don't think that is a fair assessment.  Although for many people, the Muslims that immigrated into Sweden, France, the UK, Germany, etc, and are multiplying all over Europe in creating Sharia Law Enclaves and No-Go Zones known as "Zones Urbaines Sensibles" (ZUS); for radicalized Muslims.  And it is these Muslims that set the tone for the impression they give the general population.  When one thinks of the Palestinian Islamic  Jihad, of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Hizballah (Party of God), or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) it is no bigotry that passes the label of Jihadist or Fedayeen, but the Muslims themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Vivien Sansour *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Child killer – new Palestinian super hero - PMW Bulletins

Child killer - The new Palestinian superhero

Samir Kuntar who murdered a four-year-old Israeli
by smashing her head with the butt of his rifle,
is the newest PA - Fatah hero and role model



Fortunately, Samir "_just a smear" _has joined the ranks of so many other Islamic terrorists who met a fitting end to their wasting of oxygen.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Fatah student movement decorates Christmas tree with pictures of "Martyr" terrorist murderers - All media

Fatah student movement decorates Christmas tree with pictures of "Martyr" terrorist murderers

Official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Dec. 17, 2015


----------



## aris2chat

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Fatah student movement decorates Christmas tree with pictures of "Martyr" terrorist murderers - All media
> 
> Fatah student movement decorates Christmas tree with pictures of "Martyr" terrorist murderers
> 
> Official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Dec. 17, 2015



West bank palestinians set fire to a christmas tree at a church in Samaria.


----------



## Mindful

What Palestinians?

9,000 Photos from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'


----------



## montelatici

The Zionist propaganda is so hilarious.  Now they deny that there no Palestinians in Palestine  in the 1800s when we have documentary film evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Fatah to kids: Water the ground "with blood" - PMW Bulletins

Fatah to kids:

Water the ground "with blood"


Abbas' Presidential Guard 

"Water the olive tree with my blood"

Fatah:

"Their pure blood is a trust


Fatah secretary: 

"Respect for the blood of the Martyrs"


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> The Zionist propaganda is so hilarious.  Now they deny that there no Palestinians in Palestine  in the 1800s when we have documentary film evidence to the contrary.



Palestine was an administrative district.

Twit.


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist propaganda is so hilarious.  Now they deny that there no Palestinians in Palestine  in the 1800s when we have documentary film evidence to the contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was an administrative district.
> 
> Twit.
Click to expand...


So what if Palestine was an administrative district?  Does that mean that there were no Lebanese when Lebanon was a sub administrative district of the Ottoman Empire? 

The ends you Zionist morons will go to to deny the existence of Palestinians.


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist propaganda is so hilarious.  Now they deny that there no Palestinians in Palestine  in the 1800s when we have documentary film evidence to the contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was an administrative district.
> 
> Twit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what if Palestine was an administrative district?  Does that mean that there were no Lebanese when Lebanon was a sub administrative district of the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> The ends you Zionist morons will go to to deny the existence of Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Lebanon's a country, albeit created. Palestine is not. Or ever was.


----------



## montelatici

So, prior to World War 1, before the establishment of Lebanon,  there were no Lebanese? 

Keep digging.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Hadeel Shamallakh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Abbas' Fatah celebrates 51 years of murder and vows to continue - PMW Bulletins

On Facebook, Fatah's official page cheered the results of its terror attacks - what it calls "sowing terror" among Israelis - and posted a picture of a masked Fatah fighter with the words:
*"Half a century of sowing terror in the eyes of the sons of Zion"*


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> So, prior to World War 1, before the establishment of Lebanon,  there were no Lebanese?
> 
> Keep digging.


There were Pal'istanians before there was a Pal'istan? LOL.

Keep digging, LOL.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians? (with friends)


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians (with friends from Lockheed Martin)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek, you gotta love Palestinian women *

**


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> What Palestinians?
> 
> 9,000 Photos from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'


Your link is a joke.  Normally, when you click the "About" tab, it tells you about the people who are running that website.  Your link doesn't say anything about the websites owners.  Interesting?

Here's the *population figures* for Palestine...






As you can see, in the 1800's, there were 246,000 Muslims in that area, to only 7,000 Jews.  Which proves your 9000 photos weren't shot in the right places.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Palestinians?
> 
> 9,000 Photos from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> Your link is a joke.  Normally, when you click the "About" tab, it tells you about the people who are running that website.  Your link doesn't say anything about the websites owners.  Interesting?
> 
> Here's the *population figures* for Palestine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, in the 1800's, there were 246,000 Muslims in that area, to only 7,000 Jews.  Which proves your 9000 photos weren't shot in the right places.
Click to expand...


What a surprise. It's you again.


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> What a surprise. It's you again.


Miss me?

I went to the website you linked.  They're a bunch of whack jobs.  They claim the land was barren and all the Arabs migrated there after 1900, which I clearly proved wrong in my earlier post.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a surprise. It's you again.
> 
> 
> 
> Miss me?
> 
> I went to the website you linked.  They're a bunch of whack jobs.  They claim the land was barren and all the Arabs migrated there after 1900, which I clearly proved wrong in my earlier post.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


>


I love it when you talk dirty!


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Palestinians?
> 
> 9,000 Photos from 1800's British Mandate of Palestine - with no trace of 'Palestinians'
> 
> 
> 
> Your link is a joke.  Normally, when you click the "About" tab, it tells you about the people who are running that website.  Your link doesn't say anything about the websites owners.  Interesting?
> 
> Here's the *population figures* for Palestine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, in the 1800's, there were 246,000 Muslims in that area, to only 7,000 Jews.  Which proves your 9000 photos weren't shot in the right places.
Click to expand...

The earlier invasion by the Ottoman colonizers would account for the greater population of muhammedans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

International Day of Promote the Death Cult

Promoting violence & terror | PMW

Promoting violence & terror

Palestinian political, religious, and social frameworks justify and promote violence and terror. On the one hand, Imams on Hamas and PA TV, political leaders and even children routinely express calls for future terror attacks against Jews and Israel. Citing the inherent evil Jewish nature, they proclaim that it is an Islamic and Palestinian duty to defend against the immediate threat


 and kill Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Huwaida Arraf*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


Palestinian mother celebrates her son’s death:‎ ‎“This is the first time I see joy in my heart”

Palestinian mother celebrates her son’s death:‎ ‎“This is the first time I see joy in my heart”‎


----------



## montelatici

The film "1913 Seeds of Conflict" describes the photographic propaganda campaign of the Zionists.  The photo of the beach dunes which if rotated 90% would have shown the sea and the Arab owned citric groves with workers picking the fruit and the thriving Arab city (I think Haifa) in the distance.  The Zionists wanted the world to believe that they were settling an uninhabited  desert.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> The film "1913 Seeds of Conflict" describes the photographic propaganda campaign of the Zionists.  The photo of the beach dunes which if rotated 90% would have shown the sea and the Arab owned citric groves with workers picking the fruit and the thriving Arab city (I think Haifa) in the distance.  The Zionists wanted the world to believe that they were settling an uninhabited  desert.


Indeed, there isn't much about Israel that isn't a lie.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?



Religious War

‎"Our war with the descendants of the apes and pigs (i.e., Jews) is a war of ‎religion and faith. Long Live Fatah!” 
[Official PA TV, Jan. 9, 2012
Sent from my iPad


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?










Children as combatants


Promoting violence for children


Rock-throwing dolls for Palestinian children confiscated by Israeli Customs 


Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 9, 2015
_



_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Palestinians and friends.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Linda Sarsour*

**


----------



## aris2chat

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?



it's call autopsy.   The organs are removed for examination before being returned.


----------



## montelatici

Yeah, right.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


My nominee for mother of the year. 

Motivating children to seek Shahada | PMW

Mother on PA TV: “I hope that all of my children will die at Israel’s hand as Martyrs, for the honor of the homeland Palestine” 
Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, July 15, 2015
_Official PA TV program _One Day We will Return _interviews Um Nidal Abu Tarboush, whose husband Musa Ahmad Abu Tarboush was killed by an aerial bomb (possibly Israeli) in southern Lebanon._


----------



## dani67

I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?


----------



## aris2chat

dani67 said:


> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?



Of course you would not understand


----------



## Indeependent

dani67 said:


> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?


Stoop to their level?
No.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> dani67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?
> 
> 
> 
> Stoop to their level?
> No.
Click to expand...


The Israelis do murder Palestinian women and children, in the thousands at a time.  If they thought they could get away with murdering all the non-Jews they are ruling,  without doomsday consequences to their country, they would.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?
> 
> 
> 
> Stoop to their level?
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis do murder Palestinian women and children, in the thousands at a time.  If they thought they could get away with murdering all the non-Jews they are ruling,  without doomsday consequences to their country, they would.
Click to expand...

I've asked you many times before to detail where this is done.
Look Jason Bourne, Jews are far too good at anything they do; there's NO WAY Jews are massacring the West Bank Jordanians and their numbers are still ever increasing.
So take your lies and stuff them up your Muslim girlfriend's rear end.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?
> 
> 
> 
> Stoop to their level?
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis do murder Palestinian women and children, in the thousands at a time.  If they thought they could get away with murdering all the non-Jews they are ruling,  without doomsday consequences to their country, they would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've asked you many times before to detail where this is done.
> Look Jason Bourne, Jews are far too good at anything they do; there's NO WAY Jews are massacring the West Bank Jordanians and their numbers are still ever increasing.
> So take your lies and stuff them up your Muslim girlfriend's rear end.
Click to expand...


That's easy.

"Between 8 July and 27 August, more than *2,100 Palestinians* were killed in the Gaza Strip, along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.

The UN says t*he vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian.* But figures from previous operations over the past six years in the densely populated Gaza Strip show it is not the first time civilians have paid a heavy price.


Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza - BBC News


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?
> 
> 
> 
> Stoop to their level?
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis do murder Palestinian women and children, in the thousands at a time.  If they thought they could get away with murdering all the non-Jews they are ruling,  without doomsday consequences to their country, they would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've asked you many times before to detail where this is done.
> Look Jason Bourne, Jews are far too good at anything they do; there's NO WAY Jews are massacring the West Bank Jordanians and their numbers are still ever increasing.
> So take your lies and stuff them up your Muslim girlfriend's rear end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's easy.
> 
> "Between 8 July and 27 August, more than *2,100 Palestinians* were killed in the Gaza Strip, along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.
> 
> The UN says t*he vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian.* But figures from previous operations over the past six years in the densely populated Gaza Strip show it is not the first time civilians have paid a heavy price.
> 
> 
> Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza - BBC News
Click to expand...


So you think I will accept dead Jewish children over dead Muslim children.
Just like your Roman Catholic Church preferred dead Jews over just about anything else.
No, I won't.
Use children as shields, children die.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I DONT KNOW THAT WHY ISRAEL DONT GENOCIDE THEM?
> israel can kill woman.can kill children.why they dont finish the job?
> 
> 
> 
> Stoop to their level?
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis do murder Palestinian women and children, in the thousands at a time.  If they thought they could get away with murdering all the non-Jews they are ruling,  without doomsday consequences to their country, they would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've asked you many times before to detail where this is done.
> Look Jason Bourne, Jews are far too good at anything they do; there's NO WAY Jews are massacring the West Bank Jordanians and their numbers are still ever increasing.
> So take your lies and stuff them up your Muslim girlfriend's rear end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's easy.
> 
> "Between 8 July and 27 August, more than *2,100 Palestinians* were killed in the Gaza Strip, along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.
> 
> The UN says t*he vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian.* But figures from previous operations over the past six years in the densely populated Gaza Strip show it is not the first time civilians have paid a heavy price.
> 
> 
> Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza - BBC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think I will accept dead Jewish children over dead Muslim children.
> Just like your Roman Catholic Church preferred dead Jews over just about anything else.
> No, I won't.
> Use children as shields, children die.
Click to expand...


Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stoop to their level?
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis do murder Palestinian women and children, in the thousands at a time.  If they thought they could get away with murdering all the non-Jews they are ruling,  without doomsday consequences to their country, they would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've asked you many times before to detail where this is done.
> Look Jason Bourne, Jews are far too good at anything they do; there's NO WAY Jews are massacring the West Bank Jordanians and their numbers are still ever increasing.
> So take your lies and stuff them up your Muslim girlfriend's rear end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's easy.
> 
> "Between 8 July and 27 August, more than *2,100 Palestinians* were killed in the Gaza Strip, along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.
> 
> The UN says t*he vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian.* But figures from previous operations over the past six years in the densely populated Gaza Strip show it is not the first time civilians have paid a heavy price.
> 
> 
> Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza - BBC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think I will accept dead Jewish children over dead Muslim children.
> Just like your Roman Catholic Church preferred dead Jews over just about anything else.
> No, I won't.
> Use children as shields, children die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
Click to expand...


"at a time"...please define that time.
Seems to have taken months of specific targeting for it to happen.
Even the Jew hating BBC and CNN had ZERO criticism for Israel's action.
You well HAS run dry.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.



1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.  
2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza. 
3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.  
4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.  
5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.
> 2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza.
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.
> 4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.
> 5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.
Click to expand...

_

"The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement."

1, No that is a racist statement and absurd.

2. Propaganda.

3. Propaganda.

4. Lie.


The _Guardian_: "It was there that the second [Israeli] shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: 'They are only children.'" UN high commissioner for human rights Navi Pillay: "A number of incidents, along with the high number of civilian deaths, belies the [Israeli] claim that all necessary precautions are being taken to protect civilian lives." United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, 2009: "The tactics used by the Israeli armed forces in the Gaza offensive are consistent with previous practices, most recently during the Lebanon war in 2006. A concept known as the Dahiya doctrine emerged then, involving the application of disproportionate force and the causing of great damage and destruction to civilian property and infrastructure, and suffering to civilian populations. The Mission concludes from a review of the facts on the ground that it.. appears to have been precisely what was put into practice....Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

Debunking Israel's 11 Main Myths About Gaza, Hamas and War Crimes

5. Lie.

"The U.N. says 7 in 10 Palestinians killed in Gaza were civilians."

The Gaza war still rages in a fight over numbers


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.
> 2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza.
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.
> 4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.
> 5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> "The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement."
> 
> 1, No that is a racist statement and absurd.
> 
> 2. Propaganda.
> 
> 3. Propaganda.
> 
> 4. Lie.
> 
> 
> The _Guardian_: "It was there that the second [Israeli] shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: 'They are only children.'" UN high commissioner for human rights Navi Pillay: "A number of incidents, along with the high number of civilian deaths, belies the [Israeli] claim that all necessary precautions are being taken to protect civilian lives." United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, 2009: "The tactics used by the Israeli armed forces in the Gaza offensive are consistent with previous practices, most recently during the Lebanon war in 2006. A concept known as the Dahiya doctrine emerged then, involving the application of disproportionate force and the causing of great damage and destruction to civilian property and infrastructure, and suffering to civilian populations. The Mission concludes from a review of the facts on the ground that it.. appears to have been precisely what was put into practice....Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
> 
> Debunking Israel's 11 Main Myths About Gaza, Hamas and War Crimes
> 
> 5. Lie.
> 
> "The U.N. says 7 in 10 Palestinians killed in Gaza were civilians."
> 
> The Gaza war still rages in a fight over numbers
Click to expand...


"The U.N. says 7 in 10 Palestinians killed in Gaza were civilians."


Such are the wages of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.
> 2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza.
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.
> 4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.
> 5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.
Click to expand...

3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths.​
Mohammad Ibrahim Fayeq al-Masri, 14, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his family home.*_

Mohammad Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 1, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
*_
  Nidal Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 3, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
*_
  Ranim Jawdat Abdul-Karim Abdul-Ghafoor, 1, of Al-Qarara, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when an IDF missile hit her home.*_

Bassam Abul-Rahman Khattab, 6, of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike that targeted his home. *_

Mohammad Issam al-Batsh, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home. 
*_
  Manar Majed al-Batsh, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit her family’s home.
*_
  Anas Ala’ al-Batsh, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home. 
*_
  Qusai Issam al-Batsh, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.*_

Husam Ibrahim Najjar, 14, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF drone strike on his home while he was sleeping. *_

Sara Omar Sheikh al-Eid, 4, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her home.
*_
  Kamal Atef Yousef Abu Taha, 16, of Khan Younis, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_

Fulla Tariq Shuhaibar, 8, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_

  Jihad Issam Shuhaibar, 10, of Gaza City,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Wasim Issam Shuhaibar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Rahaf Khalil al-Jbour, 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
*_
  Yassin al-Humaidi, 4, of Gaza City, _*died of injures sustained during an IDF air attack on his home earlier in the week. 
*_
  Mohammad Shadi Ntheir, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.
*_
  Mohammad Salem Ntheir, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_

Ahmad Ismael Abu Musallam, 14, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
*_
  Mohammad Ismael Abu Musallam, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment. 
*_
  Wala’ Ismael Abu Musallam, 13, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of her siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit her family’s apartment. 
*_
  Haniyya Abdul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 3, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at his home.
*_
  Samih Naim Abu Jarad, 1, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
*_
  Mousa Abul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 6 months, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
*_
  Ahlam Mousa Abu Jarad, 13, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of her home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
*_
  Abdullah Jamal as-Smeiri, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his home.
*_
  Imad Hamed E’lawwan, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.
*_
  Qassem Hamed E’lawwan, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.*_

Rezeq Ahmad al-Hayek, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at her home.
*_
  Amjad Salem Sha’at, 15, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF rocket attack on his home.*_

Rowiya Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 6, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.
*_
  Naghm Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 2, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.*_

Anas Yousef Moammar, 16, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died in the hospital of wounds suffered in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.*_

  Abdullah Yusef Daraji, 3, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Mohammed Raja Handam, 15, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.
*_
  Shoeban Jamil Ziada, 12, of Al Bureij refugee camp, in the central Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
*_
  Mohammad Hani Mohammad al-Hallaq, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Kenan Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 6, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Saje Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Asem Khalil Abed Ammar, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Eman Khalil Abed Ammar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
*_
  Ibrahim Khalil Abed Ammar, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
*_
  Rahaf Akram Ismael Abu Joma, 4, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on the home she was staying in.
*_
  Aya Bahjat Abu Sultan, 15, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike on her family’s home.*_

_*Remember These Children 2014 Memorial*_


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.
> 2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza.
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.
> 4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.
> 5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths.​
> Mohammad Ibrahim Fayeq al-Masri, 14, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his family home.*_
> 
> Mohammad Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 1, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
> *_
> Nidal Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 3, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
> *_
> Ranim Jawdat Abdul-Karim Abdul-Ghafoor, 1, of Al-Qarara, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when an IDF missile hit her home.*_
> 
> Bassam Abul-Rahman Khattab, 6, of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike that targeted his home. *_
> 
> Mohammad Issam al-Batsh, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.
> *_
> Manar Majed al-Batsh, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit her family’s home.
> *_
> Anas Ala’ al-Batsh, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.
> *_
> Qusai Issam al-Batsh, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.*_
> 
> Husam Ibrahim Najjar, 14, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF drone strike on his home while he was sleeping. *_
> 
> Sara Omar Sheikh al-Eid, 4, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her home.
> *_
> Kamal Atef Yousef Abu Taha, 16, of Khan Younis, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
> 
> Fulla Tariq Shuhaibar, 8, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
> 
> Jihad Issam Shuhaibar, 10, of Gaza City,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Wasim Issam Shuhaibar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Rahaf Khalil al-Jbour, 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Yassin al-Humaidi, 4, of Gaza City, _*died of injures sustained during an IDF air attack on his home earlier in the week.
> *_
> Mohammad Shadi Ntheir, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.
> *_
> Mohammad Salem Ntheir, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
> 
> Ahmad Ismael Abu Musallam, 14, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
> *_
> Mohammad Ismael Abu Musallam, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
> *_
> Wala’ Ismael Abu Musallam, 13, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of her siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit her family’s apartment.
> *_
> Haniyya Abdul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 3, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at his home.
> *_
> Samih Naim Abu Jarad, 1, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Mousa Abul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 6 months, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Ahlam Mousa Abu Jarad, 13, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of her home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Abdullah Jamal as-Smeiri, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his home.
> *_
> Imad Hamed E’lawwan, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.
> *_
> Qassem Hamed E’lawwan, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.*_
> 
> Rezeq Ahmad al-Hayek, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at her home.
> *_
> Amjad Salem Sha’at, 15, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF rocket attack on his home.*_
> 
> Rowiya Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 6, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.
> *_
> Naghm Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 2, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.*_
> 
> Anas Yousef Moammar, 16, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died in the hospital of wounds suffered in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.*_
> 
> Abdullah Yusef Daraji, 3, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Mohammed Raja Handam, 15, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.
> *_
> Shoeban Jamil Ziada, 12, of Al Bureij refugee camp, in the central Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Mohammad Hani Mohammad al-Hallaq, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Kenan Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 6, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Saje Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Asem Khalil Abed Ammar, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Eman Khalil Abed Ammar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Ibrahim Khalil Abed Ammar, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Rahaf Akram Ismael Abu Joma, 4, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on the home she was staying in.
> *_
> Aya Bahjat Abu Sultan, 15, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike on her family’s home.*_
> 
> _*Remember These Children 2014 Memorial*_
Click to expand...


Apparently Hamas had NOTHING to with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All HAIL Hamas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.
> 2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza.
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.
> 4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.
> 5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths.​
> Mohammad Ibrahim Fayeq al-Masri, 14, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his family home.*_
> 
> Mohammad Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 1, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
> *_
> Nidal Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 3, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
> *_
> Ranim Jawdat Abdul-Karim Abdul-Ghafoor, 1, of Al-Qarara, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when an IDF missile hit her home.*_
> 
> Bassam Abul-Rahman Khattab, 6, of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike that targeted his home. *_
> 
> Mohammad Issam al-Batsh, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.
> *_
> Manar Majed al-Batsh, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit her family’s home.
> *_
> Anas Ala’ al-Batsh, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.
> *_
> Qusai Issam al-Batsh, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.*_
> 
> Husam Ibrahim Najjar, 14, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF drone strike on his home while he was sleeping. *_
> 
> Sara Omar Sheikh al-Eid, 4, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her home.
> *_
> Kamal Atef Yousef Abu Taha, 16, of Khan Younis, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
> 
> Fulla Tariq Shuhaibar, 8, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
> 
> Jihad Issam Shuhaibar, 10, of Gaza City,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Wasim Issam Shuhaibar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Rahaf Khalil al-Jbour, 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Yassin al-Humaidi, 4, of Gaza City, _*died of injures sustained during an IDF air attack on his home earlier in the week.
> *_
> Mohammad Shadi Ntheir, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.
> *_
> Mohammad Salem Ntheir, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
> 
> Ahmad Ismael Abu Musallam, 14, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
> *_
> Mohammad Ismael Abu Musallam, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
> *_
> Wala’ Ismael Abu Musallam, 13, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of her siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit her family’s apartment.
> *_
> Haniyya Abdul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 3, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at his home.
> *_
> Samih Naim Abu Jarad, 1, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Mousa Abul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 6 months, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Ahlam Mousa Abu Jarad, 13, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of her home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Abdullah Jamal as-Smeiri, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his home.
> *_
> Imad Hamed E’lawwan, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.
> *_
> Qassem Hamed E’lawwan, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.*_
> 
> Rezeq Ahmad al-Hayek, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at her home.
> *_
> Amjad Salem Sha’at, 15, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF rocket attack on his home.*_
> 
> Rowiya Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 6, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.
> *_
> Naghm Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 2, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.*_
> 
> Anas Yousef Moammar, 16, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died in the hospital of wounds suffered in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.*_
> 
> Abdullah Yusef Daraji, 3, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Mohammed Raja Handam, 15, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.
> *_
> Shoeban Jamil Ziada, 12, of Al Bureij refugee camp, in the central Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Mohammad Hani Mohammad al-Hallaq, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Kenan Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 6, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Saje Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Asem Khalil Abed Ammar, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Eman Khalil Abed Ammar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Ibrahim Khalil Abed Ammar, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Rahaf Akram Ismael Abu Joma, 4, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on the home she was staying in.
> *_
> Aya Bahjat Abu Sultan, 15, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike on her family’s home.*_
> 
> _*Remember These Children 2014 Memorial*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently Hamas had NOTHING to with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> All HAIL Hamas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


No, Israel bombed Gaza, not Hamas.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you made my point.  The Jews murder thousands of non-Jew women and children thousands at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _The Jews_ don't murder anyone.  That is an antisemitic statement.
> 2.  Actions conducted in a conflict (war) are not murders.  Israel conducted a military action in defense of its citizens in which there were non-combatant deaths.  These non-combatant deaths were increased and exacerbated by the conduct of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza.
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths. Its ratio of civilian to combatant deaths is the best in the world at nearly 1:1.
> 4.  Hamas deliberately places military targets in or near locations where civilians gather -- including hospitals, schools and mosques.  Hamas deliberately prevents civilians from gathering in safe zones.  Hamas deliberately gathers civilians to attempt to protect military targets and weapons.
> 5.  More than 44% of the dead in Operation Protective Edge were combatants and not civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3.  Israel takes more care than any other nation in the world in conducting warfare to minimize civilian deaths.​
> Mohammad Ibrahim Fayeq al-Masri, 14, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his family home.*_
> 
> Mohammad Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 1, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
> *_
> Nidal Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 3, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.
> *_
> Ranim Jawdat Abdul-Karim Abdul-Ghafoor, 1, of Al-Qarara, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when an IDF missile hit her home.*_
> 
> Bassam Abul-Rahman Khattab, 6, of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike that targeted his home. *_
> 
> Mohammad Issam al-Batsh, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.
> *_
> Manar Majed al-Batsh, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit her family’s home.
> *_
> Anas Ala’ al-Batsh, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.
> *_
> Qusai Issam al-Batsh, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.*_
> 
> Husam Ibrahim Najjar, 14, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF drone strike on his home while he was sleeping. *_
> 
> Sara Omar Sheikh al-Eid, 4, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her home.
> *_
> Kamal Atef Yousef Abu Taha, 16, of Khan Younis, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
> 
> Fulla Tariq Shuhaibar, 8, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
> 
> Jihad Issam Shuhaibar, 10, of Gaza City,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Wasim Issam Shuhaibar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Rahaf Khalil al-Jbour, 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Yassin al-Humaidi, 4, of Gaza City, _*died of injures sustained during an IDF air attack on his home earlier in the week.
> *_
> Mohammad Shadi Ntheir, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.
> *_
> Mohammad Salem Ntheir, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
> 
> Ahmad Ismael Abu Musallam, 14, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
> *_
> Mohammad Ismael Abu Musallam, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.
> *_
> Wala’ Ismael Abu Musallam, 13, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of her siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit her family’s apartment.
> *_
> Haniyya Abdul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 3, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at his home.
> *_
> Samih Naim Abu Jarad, 1, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Mousa Abul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 6 months, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Ahlam Mousa Abu Jarad, 13, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of her home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.
> *_
> Abdullah Jamal as-Smeiri, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his home.
> *_
> Imad Hamed E’lawwan, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.
> *_
> Qassem Hamed E’lawwan, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.*_
> 
> Rezeq Ahmad al-Hayek, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at her home.
> *_
> Amjad Salem Sha’at, 15, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF rocket attack on his home.*_
> 
> Rowiya Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 6, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.
> *_
> Naghm Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 2, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.*_
> 
> Anas Yousef Moammar, 16, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died in the hospital of wounds suffered in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.*_
> 
> Abdullah Yusef Daraji, 3, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Mohammed Raja Handam, 15, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.
> *_
> Shoeban Jamil Ziada, 12, of Al Bureij refugee camp, in the central Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Mohammad Hani Mohammad al-Hallaq, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Kenan Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 6, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Saje Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Asem Khalil Abed Ammar, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Eman Khalil Abed Ammar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.
> *_
> Ibrahim Khalil Abed Ammar, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.
> *_
> Rahaf Akram Ismael Abu Joma, 4, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on the home she was staying in.
> *_
> Aya Bahjat Abu Sultan, 15, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike on her family’s home.*_
> 
> _*Remember These Children 2014 Memorial*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently Hamas had NOTHING to with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> All HAIL Hamas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, Israel bombed Gaza, not Hamas.
Click to expand...


I prefer dead Muslims to dead Jews...tough sh!t, Sherlock.
Your guys lose EVERYTIME.
And please speck to your Priest already; get it out of your system.
All HAIL Hamas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.


Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.

Not that you would notice the connection.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Not that you would notice the connection.
Click to expand...

So you agree that Hamas was targeting civilians?
We're making progress!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
Click to expand...


So, your point would be what?

That weapons and other military targets are never found in family homes?
That no military targets can be attacked if they are in civilian homes?  
That placing a military target in a family home (school, hospital, mosque) renders it entirely protected?
That calls to evacuate the home pending a strike should be ignored?  
That Hamas bears no responsibility whatsoever to the presence of civilians near military targets?

Are you trying to claim that it is possible to conduct a military operation in an urban setting with NO loss of life other than combatants?  How would you suggest that type of campaign be conducted?  What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your point would be what?
> 
> That weapons and other military targets are never found in family homes?
> That no military targets can be attacked if they are in civilian homes?
> That placing a military target in a family home (school, hospital, mosque) renders it entirely protected?
> That calls to evacuate the home pending a strike should be ignored?
> That Hamas bears no responsibility whatsoever to the presence of civilians near military targets?
> 
> Are you trying to claim that it is possible to conduct a military operation in an urban setting with NO loss of life other than combatants?  How would you suggest that type of campaign be conducted?  What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?
Click to expand...

Now you are just shoveling Israeli shit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your point would be what?
> 
> That weapons and other military targets are never found in family homes?
> That no military targets can be attacked if they are in civilian homes?
> That placing a military target in a family home (school, hospital, mosque) renders it entirely protected?
> That calls to evacuate the home pending a strike should be ignored?
> That Hamas bears no responsibility whatsoever to the presence of civilians near military targets?
> 
> Are you trying to claim that it is possible to conduct a military operation in an urban setting with NO loss of life other than combatants?  How would you suggest that type of campaign be conducted?  What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?
Click to expand...

What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?​
End the blockade and occupation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your point would be what?
> 
> That weapons and other military targets are never found in family homes?
> That no military targets can be attacked if they are in civilian homes?
> That placing a military target in a family home (school, hospital, mosque) renders it entirely protected?
> That calls to evacuate the home pending a strike should be ignored?
> That Hamas bears no responsibility whatsoever to the presence of civilians near military targets?
> 
> Are you trying to claim that it is possible to conduct a military operation in an urban setting with NO loss of life other than combatants?  How would you suggest that type of campaign be conducted?  What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?​
> End the blockade and occupation.
Click to expand...

Why? And allow Islamic terrorists an unopposed opportunity to spend their welfare dollars on the importation of weapons of war?


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Not that you would notice the connection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you agree that Hamas was targeting civilians?
> We're making progress!
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your point would be what?
> 
> That weapons and other military targets are never found in family homes?
> That no military targets can be attacked if they are in civilian homes?
> That placing a military target in a family home (school, hospital, mosque) renders it entirely protected?
> That calls to evacuate the home pending a strike should be ignored?
> That Hamas bears no responsibility whatsoever to the presence of civilians near military targets?
> 
> Are you trying to claim that it is possible to conduct a military operation in an urban setting with NO loss of life other than combatants?  How would you suggest that type of campaign be conducted?  What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?
Click to expand...


Sounds like a press interview with  General Jürgen Stroop explaining why there was such a large loss of civilian life in the Warsaw Ghetto.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Not that you would notice the connection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you agree that Hamas was targeting civilians?
> We're making progress!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> What's your point?  That children died?  That civilians died?  No one is disputing that.  If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise you are just making an emotional appeal in order to demonize Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your point would be what?
> 
> That weapons and other military targets are never found in family homes?
> That no military targets can be attacked if they are in civilian homes?
> That placing a military target in a family home (school, hospital, mosque) renders it entirely protected?
> That calls to evacuate the home pending a strike should be ignored?
> That Hamas bears no responsibility whatsoever to the presence of civilians near military targets?
> 
> Are you trying to claim that it is possible to conduct a military operation in an urban setting with NO loss of life other than combatants?  How would you suggest that type of campaign be conducted?  What measures would you put in place to minimize the loss of civilian life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like a press interview with  General Jürgen Stroop explaining why there was such a large loss of civilian life in the Warsaw Ghetto.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, the Jews are certainly starving the WBJs, aren't they?
Idiot.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> End the blockade and occupation.



Newsflash.  The occupation of Gaza ended in 2005.  The blockade is a RESULT of the belligerent, indiscriminate, illegal attacks on innocent Israeli citizens.  The blockade does not end until the belligerence ends.  Its a safety issue for Israeli citizens.  Belligerence does not get you what you want.  Peace does.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Now you are just shoveling Israeli shit.



Cop out.  Why don't you address the question.


----------



## montelatici

The Gazan resistance to Israel is as a result of the blockade, an act of war.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Gazan resistance to Israel is as a result of the blockade, an act of war.


Umm, no it isn't. The Hamas acts of war are a result of the Hamas Charter which was plagiarized largely from Moslem Brotherhood proscriptions of Islamo-fascism.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

PMW Bulletins
Fatah praises and encourages “heroic” murderers of Israelis

Fatah praises and encourages “heroic” murderers of Israelis - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah leader Rajoub: 
Terrorists like murderer Halabi, 
are “heroes and a crown 
on the head of every Palestinian”
“We... bless and encourage them”*


And get this, these death cultists have a UN funded welfare program dedicated to the maintenance of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


*Fatah leader Abbas Zaki endorses stabbers:
Allah loves young Palestinians who stab Israelis. 
Rocks and knives are “peaceful resistance”

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Voices of Palestine *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

PA and Fatah glorify Tel Aviv murderer of 3 - PMW Bulletins

*PA and Fatah glorify Tel Aviv murderer of 3*

PA Ministry of Health on Tel Aviv murderer:
“He is one of the dearest Martyrs,
and his name is engraved with his pure blood,
which watered the ground of our free land”

Fatah to Tel Aviv killer:
“Congratulations and may Allah receive you in Heaven”

PA and Fatah glorify Tel Aviv murderer of 3

PA Ministry of Health on Tel Aviv murderer:
“He is one of the dearest Martyrs,
and his name is engraved with his pure blood,
which watered the ground of our free land”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Annemarie Jacir*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Palestinian children wear “suicide belts” to celebrate Fatah’s 51 years of violence - PMW Bulletins

*Palestinian children wear “suicide belts”*
*to celebrate Fatah’s 51 years of violence
*
When one looks at Palestinian Authority education and messaging to its children, it is no wonder that in the last three months, most of the terror attacks have been carried out by young Palestinians. At Fatah's anniversary celebrations in Bethlehem last week, young masked children were dressed with “suicide belts” and equipped with "guns" and "RPGs".


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Annemarie Jacir*
> 
> **



ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Annemarie Jacir*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
> ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
> ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
> ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
> ALERT!!! Tinmore has posted a video...ALERT!!!
Click to expand...


Alert, Inoverthedeepend posted nonsense, as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Promoting violence for children | PMW

Palestinian Facebook post poses child with knife, encourages Palestinian children to stab Jews 
Source: Facebook, Nov. 20, 2015
Posted on the Facebook page of Moutasem Shawabkeh on Nov. 20, 2015


*Text under photo: *
"His mother put a keffiyeh on him
He went to get a knife
And said to me: 'In order to stab'
Zionists, woe to you from the freedom generation"
#Stab, #So_what, #Hebron, #Our_land
*Click to view bulletin*


----------



## aris2chat

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Promoting violence for children | PMW
> 
> Palestinian Facebook post poses child with knife, encourages Palestinian children to stab Jews
> Source: Facebook, Nov. 20, 2015
> Posted on the Facebook page of Moutasem Shawabkeh on Nov. 20, 2015
> 
> 
> *Text under photo: *
> "His mother put a keffiyeh on him
> He went to get a knife
> And said to me: 'In order to stab'
> Zionists, woe to you from the freedom generation"
> #Stab, #So_what, #Hebron, #Our_land
> *Click to view bulletin*



shame teaching hate and how to kill in children


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Promoting violence for children | PMW
> 
> Palestinian Facebook post poses child with knife, encourages Palestinian children to stab Jews
> Source: Facebook, Nov. 20, 2015
> Posted on the Facebook page of Moutasem Shawabkeh on Nov. 20, 2015
> 
> 
> *Text under photo: *
> "His mother put a keffiyeh on him
> He went to get a knife
> And said to me: 'In order to stab'
> Zionists, woe to you from the freedom generation"
> #Stab, #So_what, #Hebron, #Our_land
> *Click to view bulletin*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shame teaching hate and how to kill in children
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

Just when you think a cabal of retrograde Islamic terrorist welfare cheats masquerading as a stateworthy society can't further plumb the depths of depravity, they find a way. 


Fatah:

Drown Israelis “in a sea of blood”



Music video on Fatah-run Awdah TV:

“Besiege them in all their neighborhoods

Drown them in a sea of blood

Kill them as you wish"


----------



## aris2chat

Hollie said:


> Just when you think a cabal of retrograde Islamic terrorist welfare cheats masquerading as a stateworthy society can't further plumb the depths of depravity, they find a way.
> 
> 
> Fatah:
> 
> Drown Israelis “in a sea of blood”
> 
> 
> 
> Music video on Fatah-run Awdah TV:
> 
> “Besiege them in all their neighborhoods
> 
> Drown them in a sea of blood
> 
> Kill them as you wish"




brainwashing from the time they are a toddler.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Day 45 b: Special Edition: Those who don't know much about the Samaritans, join Diana on a visit to Fayad and Mariam Lutfi's home.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just when you think a cabal of retrograde Islamic terrorist welfare cheats masquerading as a stateworthy society can't further plumb the depths of depravity, they find a way.
> 
> 
> Fatah:
> 
> Drown Israelis “in a sea of blood”
> 
> 
> 
> Music video on Fatah-run Awdah TV:
> 
> “Besiege them in all their neighborhoods
> 
> Drown them in a sea of blood
> 
> Kill them as you wish"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brainwashing from the time they are a toddler.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just when you think a cabal of retrograde Islamic terrorist welfare cheats masquerading as a stateworthy society can't further plumb the depths of depravity, they find a way.
> 
> 
> Fatah:
> 
> Drown Israelis “in a sea of blood”
> 
> 
> 
> Music video on Fatah-run Awdah TV:
> 
> “Besiege them in all their neighborhoods
> 
> Drown them in a sea of blood
> 
> Kill them as you wish"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brainwashing from the time they are a toddler.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

And another repeated cut and paste you have cut and pasted across multiple thresds, multiple times. 

Once again, context Habib, context.


----------



## Hollie

Prayer for extermination of Jews at funeral of 2 Palestinians 
Source: Official PA TV Live, Nov. 16, 2015


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

zeina melhem


----------



## Hollie

Because as we know, murder in service of debasing all of humanity is the highest ideal for the Pal'istanian Arab.


*Palestinian social media "rages" at exclusion of Tel Aviv terrorist from PA list of "Martyrs"*

Al-Jazeera website - Jan. 9, 2016

  “The [PA] Ministry of Health in Ramallah refused to include the name of Martyr Nashat Melhem in the list of the Martyrs (Shahids) of the Palestinian uprising that broke out last October [2015], something that provoked the wrath of the Palestinian street and whose echoes are reflected in the social media. [Social media] activists expressed their great anger over this step [by the ministry], which came after the ministry originally added the Martyr’s name to their documents, and raised the number of Martyrs to 150, but afterward they surprisingly omitted him and returned the number to 149. The activists created the hashtag #the_150th_Martyr_despite_your_opposition , and many expressed their condemnation and great anger with it [the ministry’s decision].


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Palestinians and friends.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Pal'istanians and friends:


All Media
*Click to view bulletin*

PA daily cartoon urges women to become rock-throwers 
Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 27, 2015


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Pal'istanians and friends:
> 
> 
> All Media
> *Click to view bulletin*
> 
> PA daily cartoon urges women to become rock-throwers
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 27, 2015


Equality for women.

Why should women miss out on the fun of hitting a foreign goon with a rock?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Pal'istanians and friends:
> 
> 
> All Media
> *Click to view bulletin*
> 
> PA daily cartoon urges women to become rock-throwers
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 27, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> Equality for women.
> 
> Why should women miss out on the fun of hitting a foreign goon with a rock?
Click to expand...

Pali women should be the rock chuckers. Impotent Arab men can hide behind their skirts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Pal'istanians and friends:
> 
> 
> All Media
> *Click to view bulletin*
> 
> PA daily cartoon urges women to become rock-throwers
> Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 27, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> Equality for women.
> 
> Why should women miss out on the fun of hitting a foreign goon with a rock?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pali women should be the rock chuckers. Impotent Arab men can hide behind their skirts.
Click to expand...

Uhhh, those women are wearing pants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Diana Buttu*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

*Who are the Pal'istanians?

"Hitler was not morally corrupt, 
he was daring"
says Fatah leader Tawfiq Tirawi
*
‎“Hitler was not morally corrupt, he was daring” says Fatah leader - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Palestinians and friends.


----------



## Novatweeter

IN a MEMOIRS of discussions between the FIRST Palestinian Leader Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Heinrich Himmler: 
*"We have so far exterminated about three million of them..."*

On November 25, 1941, *Adolf Hitler* told him, "enjoining him to lock it in the uttermost depths of his heart," that once his armies had reached the southern exit of the Caucasus he would proclaim to the Arab world that its hour of liberation had arrived. Germany's goal would then be what he termed the "destruction of Jewry living in Arabia." (_Documents on German Foreign Policy 1918-1945_, Series D, Vol. XIII no. 515).


















I REFER YOU TO:

*List of Exhibits filed in the Trial of Adolf Eichmann* includes _inter alia_ these items *relating to the Grand Mufti*:

T/37(11) Statement by Dieter Wisliceny regarding Eichmann's relations with the Mufti; 26.7.46. Submitted during the course of the trial and marked T/89 (B06-129, Vol. I, p. 243)
T/1262 Affidavit by Tuvia Arazi authenticating documents found in the Mufti's archives (Vol. III, pp. 1139-1140)
T/1265 Memorandum by Hencke, the Foreign Ministry, to State Secretary Pruefer, reporting that the Italian Embassy had received a letter from the Mufti concerning an alleged Bulgarian agreement to permit the IRC to arrange for the emigration of 4,500 Jews to Palestine, and asking for German comment on the matter; Berlin, 12.5.43 (BO6-1308, Vol. III, p. 1141)
T/1266 Letter from Hajj Amin al-Husseini and Raschid `Ali el-Gilani to Ribbentrop, referring to talks with the Reich Foreign Minister, in which they had declared the Arab's willingness to participate in the struggle against the common enemy. They ask that the German Government commit itself to support of the Arabs' struggle for their liberation from the British and to the elimination of the "Jewish National Home" in Palestine; Rome, 28.4.42 (E- 260993, Ser:4729 pt.1, BO6-1302, Vol. III, p. 1141)
T/1267 Page from the diary of Hajj Amin al-Husseini, containing a six-word entry in Arabic, of which three had been deciphered and translated as "the Arabs' best friend"; and a one-word entry "Eichmann," in Latin characters; 9.11.44 (BO6-1306, Vol. III, pp. 1141-1142)
T/1268 Page from Hajj Amin al-Husseini's diary containing two entries in Arabic, of which one has been translated as meaning that al-Husseini wants to meet the "expert on Jewish affairs" and the other as referring to the bombing Tel Aviv, the Dead Sea and Haifa; 25.3.44 (BO6-1305, Vol. III, p. 1142)
T/1269 Page from Hajj Amin al-Husseini's diary containing an entry stating "Subject: The Jews of Italy, France and Hungary, and who is the expert dealing with the affairs of the Jews?" 29.9.43, (B06-1304, Vol. III, p. 1142)
T/1270 Photograph of Himmler given to Hajj Amin al-Husseini as a souvenir (Vol. III, p. 1142)
T/1271 Photograph of Himmler with Hajj Amin al-Husseini (Vol. III, p. 1143)
T/1272 Telegram from Himmler to Hajj Amin al-Husseini on the occasion of the anniversary of the Balfour Declaration; Berlin, 2.11.43 (B06-1313, Vol. III, p. Vol. III, p. 1143)
T/1273 Notebook of the Mufti with a comment on his meeting with Pruefer (B06-1307, Vol. III, p. 1143)
T/1274 Draft of a German-Italian declaration prepared by Hajj Amin al-Husseini on their Middle East policy; no place or date (B06-1429, Vol. III, p. 1114)
*---------------------*

*Most importantly, the facts. *

*There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation, country, civilization, or a Palestinian People. There is no such thing as Palestinian history, language, cuisine, architecture, archaeology and ancient artifacts, religion, currency or coin. There never were such characteristics that proved people and nationhood. All these characteristics can be attributable to the Hebraic. *

*If anyone doubts any of the above, please let us know which worldclass museum displays the evidence of such people or nationhood. Let us also know who was the Palestinians first king, who was their last? When did Palestinian civilization begin, and when did it end?*

*The links to find out follow.*


*THE PALESTINIANS, THE INVENTED PEOPLE OF A FABRICATED NATION*

And
*
PALESTINIAN HISTORY A FICTION & THE MITROKHIN ARCHIVES*


And lastly - the 57 States where Barack Obama campaigned (his words).
They must be the 57 Muslim States on this planet.
The problem is, and always was, 1 Jewish State.
The so-called "constitutional scholar" doesn't know that the United States has 50 states.
But he does know that there are 57 Muslim states.
*JEWISH THEFT OF LAND*


*------------------------*

*AS FOR ZIONISM IS NAZISM? SURE IT IS!








*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## aris2chat

Novatweeter said:


> IN a MEMOIRS of discussions between the FIRST Palestinian Leader Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Heinrich Himmler:
> *"We have so far exterminated about three million of them..."*
> 
> On November 25, 1941, *Adolf Hitler* told him, "enjoining him to lock it in the uttermost depths of his heart," that once his armies had reached the southern exit of the Caucasus he would proclaim to the Arab world that its hour of liberation had arrived. Germany's goal would then be what he termed the "destruction of Jewry living in Arabia." (_Documents on German Foreign Policy 1918-1945_, Series D, Vol. XIII no. 515).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I REFER YOU TO:
> 
> *List of Exhibits filed in the Trial of Adolf Eichmann* includes _inter alia_ these items *relating to the Grand Mufti*:
> 
> T/37(11) Statement by Dieter Wisliceny regarding Eichmann's relations with the Mufti; 26.7.46. Submitted during the course of the trial and marked T/89 (B06-129, Vol. I, p. 243)
> T/1262 Affidavit by Tuvia Arazi authenticating documents found in the Mufti's archives (Vol. III, pp. 1139-1140)
> T/1265 Memorandum by Hencke, the Foreign Ministry, to State Secretary Pruefer, reporting that the Italian Embassy had received a letter from the Mufti concerning an alleged Bulgarian agreement to permit the IRC to arrange for the emigration of 4,500 Jews to Palestine, and asking for German comment on the matter; Berlin, 12.5.43 (BO6-1308, Vol. III, p. 1141)
> T/1266 Letter from Hajj Amin al-Husseini and Raschid `Ali el-Gilani to Ribbentrop, referring to talks with the Reich Foreign Minister, in which they had declared the Arab's willingness to participate in the struggle against the common enemy. They ask that the German Government commit itself to support of the Arabs' struggle for their liberation from the British and to the elimination of the "Jewish National Home" in Palestine; Rome, 28.4.42 (E- 260993, Ser:4729 pt.1, BO6-1302, Vol. III, p. 1141)
> T/1267 Page from the diary of Hajj Amin al-Husseini, containing a six-word entry in Arabic, of which three had been deciphered and translated as "the Arabs' best friend"; and a one-word entry "Eichmann," in Latin characters; 9.11.44 (BO6-1306, Vol. III, pp. 1141-1142)
> T/1268 Page from Hajj Amin al-Husseini's diary containing two entries in Arabic, of which one has been translated as meaning that al-Husseini wants to meet the "expert on Jewish affairs" and the other as referring to the bombing Tel Aviv, the Dead Sea and Haifa; 25.3.44 (BO6-1305, Vol. III, p. 1142)
> T/1269 Page from Hajj Amin al-Husseini's diary containing an entry stating "Subject: The Jews of Italy, France and Hungary, and who is the expert dealing with the affairs of the Jews?" 29.9.43, (B06-1304, Vol. III, p. 1142)
> T/1270 Photograph of Himmler given to Hajj Amin al-Husseini as a souvenir (Vol. III, p. 1142)
> T/1271 Photograph of Himmler with Hajj Amin al-Husseini (Vol. III, p. 1143)
> T/1272 Telegram from Himmler to Hajj Amin al-Husseini on the occasion of the anniversary of the Balfour Declaration; Berlin, 2.11.43 (B06-1313, Vol. III, p. Vol. III, p. 1143)
> T/1273 Notebook of the Mufti with a comment on his meeting with Pruefer (B06-1307, Vol. III, p. 1143)
> T/1274 Draft of a German-Italian declaration prepared by Hajj Amin al-Husseini on their Middle East policy; no place or date (B06-1429, Vol. III, p. 1114)
> *---------------------*
> 
> *Most importantly, the facts. *
> 
> *There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation, country, civilization, or a Palestinian People. There is no such thing as Palestinian history, language, cuisine, architecture, archaeology and ancient artifacts, religion, currency or coin. There never were such characteristics that proved people and nationhood. All these characteristics can be attributable to the Hebraic. *
> 
> *If anyone doubts any of the above, please let us know which worldclass museum displays the evidence of such people or nationhood. Let us also know who was the Palestinians first king, who was their last? When did Palestinian civilization begin, and when did it end?*
> 
> *The links to find out follow.*
> 
> 
> *THE PALESTINIANS, THE INVENTED PEOPLE OF A FABRICATED NATION*
> 
> And
> *
> PALESTINIAN HISTORY A FICTION & THE MITROKHIN ARCHIVES*
> 
> 
> And lastly - the 57 States where Barack Obama campaigned (his words).
> They must be the 57 Muslim States on this planet.
> The problem is, and always was, 1 Jewish State.
> The so-called "constitutional scholar" doesn't know that the United States has 50 states.
> But he does know that there are 57 Muslim states.
> *JEWISH THEFT OF LAND*
> 
> 
> *------------------------*
> 
> *AS FOR ZIONISM IS NAZISM? SURE IT IS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




As far as I am aware, the Mufti's Autobiography/Journal has not been published in English.  I wish it was so the west could read his own words and thoughts.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?









 The Palestinians are those people so branded by the Romans when they conquered the land. They are not recent arrivals that took the name on the command of Russian enablers to give their politics credibility


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## abu afak

`


`


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> `
> 
> 
> `


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Did you know that there are more than a million children living in detention worldwide?

Did you know that nearly 23,000 children, as young as eight, were held overnight in prisons in the UK in 2014?  One was held for 15 days.  

Did you know that there are thousands of children in the Philippines living in prison and mixed with adult inmates, often 80 to 100 a cell where they take turns lying down?  Often with no more reason for arrest than sniffing glue or playing cards on the sidewalk?

Did you know there is only one country in the world where children are sentenced to life in imprisonment without chance of parole? 2500 people in prison for life for crimes they committed as children.  


Let's be sure to compare apples to apples, 'kay?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Jennifer Jajeh*


----------



## Hollie

*Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
They're the retrogrades who breed generation after generation of hateful little islamo-bots.
*
PA TV incited 15-year-old to murder, says Israeli Security Agency - PMW Bulletins

*PA TV incited 15-year-old to murder, says Israeli Security Agency
"In the period of time preceding the terrorist attack,”
the murderer had watched "PA television, which presented Israel 
as a state that ‘kills Palestinian youths.’” 

“Under the influence of the content he saw on television, 
the minor decided to carry out a stabbing attack 
in order to murder a Jewish person”*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Samah Sabawi *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


Torture in Palestinian detention centers exposed by Palestinian human rights organization - PMW Bulletins

Torture in Palestinian detention centers
exposed by Palestinian human rights organization

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Last month, the Palestinian organization the Independent Commission for Human Rights exposed that torture is being used in Palestinian Authority and Hamas detention centers in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to make suspects confess during interrogations, the independent Palestinian news agency Ma'an reported.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Torture in Palestinian detention centers exposed by Palestinian human rights organization - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Torture in Palestinian detention centers
> exposed by Palestinian human rights organization
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Last month, the Palestinian organization the Independent Commission for Human Rights exposed that torture is being used in Palestinian Authority and Hamas detention centers in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to make suspects confess during interrogations, the independent Palestinian news agency Ma'an reported.


Unfortunately torture is used all over the place. The US uses it. Israel uses it. There was even a case in Chicago a few years ago.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Torture in Palestinian detention centers exposed by Palestinian human rights organization - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Torture in Palestinian detention centers
> exposed by Palestinian human rights organization
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Last month, the Palestinian organization the Independent Commission for Human Rights exposed that torture is being used in Palestinian Authority and Hamas detention centers in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to make suspects confess during interrogations, the independent Palestinian news agency Ma'an reported.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately torture is used all over the place. The US uses it. Israel uses it. There was even a case in Chicago a few years ago.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid your cheap excuses as a way to sidestep accountability is stereotypical.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Amer Zahr*


----------



## Billo_Really

Who are the Palestinian's?

They are hero's we can all look up to.

They are modern day Jews, being persecuted by Nazi Israeli's.

Despite everything they've been subjected to by evil Zionists, they've shown great patience, restraint and hope for a better future.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians

Fatah: Murderers of policewoman yesterday are "role models" - PMW Bulletins

The Fatah movement praised the three terrorists who murdered policewoman Hadar Cohen in yesterday's terror attack at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. Fatah published the above picture of the three terrorists on its official Facebook page, calling them "role models":
"Those who carried out the self-sacrifice operation in occupied Jerusalem are Ahmad Abu Al-Rub, Ahmad Zakarneh, and Muhammad Kmeil from the village of Qabatiya in the Jenin district.
They were three men who competed with each other for [Martyrdom] death
Their feet were raised above the hangman's neck
They became role models
Across the length and breadth of the homeland."
[Official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement, Feb. 3, 2016]


----------



## RoccoR

Hollie,  et al,

Great example...



Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians
> 
> Fatah: Murderers of policewoman yesterday are "role models" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> The Fatah movement praised the three terrorists who murdered policewoman Hadar Cohen in yesterday's terror attack at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. Fatah published the above picture of the three terrorists on its official Facebook page, calling them "role models":
> "Those who carried out the self-sacrifice operation in occupied Jerusalem are Ahmad Abu Al-Rub, Ahmad Zakarneh, and Muhammad Kmeil from the village of Qabatiya in the Jenin district.
> They were three men who competed with each other for [Martyrdom] death
> Their feet were raised above the hangman's neck
> They became role models
> Across the length and breadth of the homeland."
> [Official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement, Feb. 3, 2016]


*(COMMENT)*

Every time I think of a Hostile Arab Palestinian, something like this comes to mind.

*Fatah: Three murderers of policewoman
in yesterday's terror attack are "role models"
Father of one of the terrorists expressed joy
over his son's "death as a Martyr"*​
Role Models!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Great example...
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians
> 
> Fatah: Murderers of policewoman yesterday are "role models" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> The Fatah movement praised the three terrorists who murdered policewoman Hadar Cohen in yesterday's terror attack at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. Fatah published the above picture of the three terrorists on its official Facebook page, calling them "role models":
> "Those who carried out the self-sacrifice operation in occupied Jerusalem are Ahmad Abu Al-Rub, Ahmad Zakarneh, and Muhammad Kmeil from the village of Qabatiya in the Jenin district.
> They were three men who competed with each other for [Martyrdom] death
> Their feet were raised above the hangman's neck
> They became role models
> Across the length and breadth of the homeland."
> [Official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement, Feb. 3, 2016]
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every time I think of a Hostile Arab Palestinian, something like this comes to mind.
> 
> *Fatah: Three murderers of policewoman
> in yesterday's terror attack are "role models"
> Father of one of the terrorists expressed joy
> over his son's "death as a Martyr"*​
> Role Models!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All cultures honor those who sacrifice for their country.

Why do you single out the Palestinians?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I don't single-out Palestinians, I single-out pro-Palestinians that open commit criminal acts and the brag about it.



P F Tinmore said:


> All cultures honor those who sacrifice for their country.
> 
> Why do you single out the Palestinians?


*(SOME FACTS)*

Israeli security officials said Wednesday’s fatal attack at the Damascus Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem, in which Border Police officer Hadar Cohen was killed and a second policewoman badly injured, marked “an escalation” in the ongoing terror wave.  SOURCE:   Times of Israel 3 FEB 2016 Staff  

The Border Police are not members of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF).  The Border Police are Gendarmerie and a branch of the Israel National Police (INP).   It is a civilian police (Rule 5, Customary IHL), counterterrorist and law enforcement component of the INP.  The Border Police Officers that were killed just recently were "civilians."

Israeli Border Police Offices fall under Article 50 - Protocol I of the Geneva Convention:

Definition of civilians and civilian population

1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A (1), (2), (3) and (6) of the Third Convention and in Article 43  of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.

2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.

3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.​Israeli Border Police Officer fall under Article 4A(4) Third Geneva Convention:

(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
[/Index]

Rule #2, Customary IHL:  Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

Rule #6, Civilians' Loss of Protection from Attack: Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.​*(COMMENT)*

When we were discussing the form, nature honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, ethical and moral fiber, we talked about this and how it is generationally spread.

LET IT BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) cannot be both honorable, heroic and making a meritorious sacrifice for the State of Palestine, --- and simultaneously --- intentionally directing an "Attack directed against any civilian population" in furtherance of a Palestinian Policy (Jihad or Armed Struggle) the Government of Palestine lending tacit approval to commit such attack by public praise.

The incident Wednesday was the first time that three Palestinians have been killed in the same place since the surge in violence which began in October. Much of the violence is fueled by incitement from the Palestinian Authority that calls terrorists martyrs and claim they will inherit paradise through deadly attacks.

Hamas, the Islamic militant group ruling the Gaza strip which the United Kingdom has designated as a terrorist group, praised the attack as "heroic", lauding the assailants' ability to reach Jerusalem despite a maze of Israeli checkpoints in the West Bank.
*SOURCE:* Palestinians kill Israeli officer before being shot dead​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't single-out Palestinians, I single-out pro-Palestinians that open commit criminal acts and the brag about it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All cultures honor those who sacrifice for their country.
> 
> Why do you single out the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> *(SOME FACTS)*
> 
> Israeli security officials said Wednesday’s fatal attack at the Damascus Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem, in which Border Police officer Hadar Cohen was killed and a second policewoman badly injured, marked “an escalation” in the ongoing terror wave.  SOURCE:   Times of Israel 3 FEB 2016 Staff
> 
> The Border Police are not members of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF).  The Border Police are Gendarmerie and a branch of the Israel National Police (INP).   It is a civilian police (Rule 5, Customary IHL), counterterrorist and law enforcement component of the INP.  The Border Police Officers that were killed just recently were "civilians."
> 
> Israeli Border Police Offices fall under Article 50 - Protocol I of the Geneva Convention:
> Definition of civilians and civilian population
> 
> 1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A (1), (2), (3) and (6) of the Third Convention and in Article 43  of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.
> 
> 2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.
> 
> 3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.​Israeli Border Police Officer fall under Article 4A(4) Third Geneva Convention:
> 
> (4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
> [/Index]
> 
> Rule #2, Customary IHL:  Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
> 
> Rule #6, Civilians' Loss of Protection from Attack: Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> When we were discussing the form, nature honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, ethical and moral fiber, we talked about this and how it is generationally spread.
> 
> LET IT BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) cannot be both honorable, heroic and making a meritorious sacrifice for the State of Palestine, --- and simultaneously --- intentionally directing an "Attack directed against any civilian population" in furtherance of a Palestinian Policy (Jihad or Armed Struggle) the Government of Palestine lending tacit approval to commit such attack by public praise.
> 
> The incident Wednesday was the first time that three Palestinians have been killed in the same place since the surge in violence which began in October. Much of the violence is fueled by incitement from the Palestinian Authority that calls terrorists martyrs and claim they will inherit paradise through deadly attacks.
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic militant group ruling the Gaza strip which the United Kingdom has designated as a terrorist group, praised the attack as "heroic", lauding the assailants' ability to reach Jerusalem despite a maze of Israeli checkpoints in the West Bank.
> *SOURCE:* Palestinians kill Israeli officer before being shot dead​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

When Israeli "police" attack Palestinian civilians they are combatants.

You consistently ignore the facts that Palestinians do not cross borders for their "attacks" and they do not attack protected persons as defined by IVGC.

This is just Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinian resistance is to their people considered honorable and patriotic just as ANC was considered as such by the non-whites in South Africa.  This is the case in all anti-colonial resistance situations.  That just a fact.

As Nelson Mandela said:

".....we felt that without violence there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy."  

The UK and much of the west designated the ANC a terrorist group. The U.S. only removed the ANC and its members from the terrorist list in 2008.  The designation of groups as terrorists is a farce for the most part.  The Muhajedin of Afghanistan were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Russians and magically became terrorists when they changed their name to Taliban and were fighting the west.

While I can understand that in your view the Palestinians should passively submit to occupation and oppression, the Palestinians are acting in the same manner as any other colonized and oppressed people through out history.  I don't understand why you insist on singling them out.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Palestinian resistance is to their people considered honorable and patriotic just as ANC was considered as such by the non-whites in South Africa.  This is the case in all anti-colonial resistance situations.  That just a fact.
> 
> As Nelson Mandela said:
> 
> ".....we felt that without violence there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy."
> 
> The UK and much of the west designated the ANC a terrorist group. The U.S. only removed the ANC and its members from the terrorist list in 2008.  The designation of groups as terrorists is a farce for the most part.  The Muhajedin of Afghanistan were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Russians and magically became terrorists when they changed their name to Taliban and were fighting the west.
> 
> While I can understand that in your view the Palestinians should passively submit to occupation and oppression, the Palestinians are acting in the same manner as any other colonized and oppressed people through out history.  I don't understand why you insist on singling them out.


It's really silly to make these false comparisons. Apartheid practiced by Arabs-Islamists is clearly evident by the purging of competing religions in every area controlled by muhammedans. 

Why would it not be appropriate to single out a collection of islamo-welfare cheats who are hoping to further the goals of the fascist Hamas Charter?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Nadia Hijab


----------



## Hollie

Hamas threats evoke ridicule in Gaza
MainNewsMiddle East

*Hamas threats evoke ridicule in Gaza*

Some of the Hamas claims have evoked ridicule even within Gaza. On January 31, a Hamas military spokesman took part in a mass event at which Hamas paraded what it claimed was its newest battle tank based on the IDF's Merkava Mk-4. The excited MC shouted repeatedly statements such as, "Dying for Allah is our greatest wish!" and "We are preparing for the day when we meet the Israeli tanks – let the locally-produced vehicle move forward!"

However, in fact, the purported armored vehicle was merely a wooden copy of the Israeli tank – as was duly noted by many within Gaza.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Jennifer Jajeh*








 In all your video's what dictates that those represented are Palestinians, or are you just accepting their word for it. What scientific evidence or scientific method has been employed to determine their claims. Do they all carry the same distinctive Palestinian DNA that sets them aside from all other groups that reside in the area. Do they have title to the land going back 1000 years. What is the deciding factor ?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Who are the Palestinian's?
> 
> They are hero's we can all look up to.
> 
> They are modern day Jews, being persecuted by Nazi Israeli's.
> 
> Despite everything they've been subjected to by evil Zionists, they've shown great patience, restraint and hope for a better future.









 Your reply says it all as the Palestinians are psychopathic mass murdering terrorist scum that follow the commands to " KILL THE UNBELIEVERS " as written in the koran. They are persecuted by their fellow Palestinians, arab's, muslims and the west more that Israel has ever persecuted them. You forget that from 1099 till 1967 they were persecuted and down trodden by the muslims alongside the Jews and Christians. In the 1970's the Palestinians from Jordan mass murdered 50,000 "Palestinians" trapped behind barbed wire fences and exceeded in one month the number of Palestinians killed by Israel in 66 years of war.


 You whinge and whine about alleged actions by the Jews but not once do you produce evidence from an accountable and unbiased source. All you have is conjecture and outright lies as your evidence, and then complain when it is shown to be false


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Great example...
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians
> 
> Fatah: Murderers of policewoman yesterday are "role models" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> The Fatah movement praised the three terrorists who murdered policewoman Hadar Cohen in yesterday's terror attack at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. Fatah published the above picture of the three terrorists on its official Facebook page, calling them "role models":
> "Those who carried out the self-sacrifice operation in occupied Jerusalem are Ahmad Abu Al-Rub, Ahmad Zakarneh, and Muhammad Kmeil from the village of Qabatiya in the Jenin district.
> They were three men who competed with each other for [Martyrdom] death
> Their feet were raised above the hangman's neck
> They became role models
> Across the length and breadth of the homeland."
> [Official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement, Feb. 3, 2016]
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every time I think of a Hostile Arab Palestinian, something like this comes to mind.
> 
> *Fatah: Three murderers of policewoman
> in yesterday's terror attack are "role models"
> Father of one of the terrorists expressed joy
> over his son's "death as a Martyr"*​
> Role Models!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All cultures honor those who sacrifice for their country.
> 
> Why do you single out the Palestinians?
Click to expand...







 Did they die in honour attacking a superior force to allow their fellow soldiers to escape.

 OR DID THEY DIE LIKE COWARDS DRESSED IN NORMAL CLOTHING AND ATTACKING FROM HIDING A LONE SOLDIER. IT IS THE IDF SOLDIER WHO WAS THE REAL MARTYR AND THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE RAISED ON HIGH. THE SCUM THAT MURDERERED HER SHOULD BE CUT INTO PIECES AND FED TO THE WILD DOGS SO THEY BRING EVEN MORE DISHONOUR ON THEIR FAMILIES.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't single-out Palestinians, I single-out pro-Palestinians that open commit criminal acts and the brag about it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All cultures honor those who sacrifice for their country.
> 
> Why do you single out the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> *(SOME FACTS)*
> 
> Israeli security officials said Wednesday’s fatal attack at the Damascus Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem, in which Border Police officer Hadar Cohen was killed and a second policewoman badly injured, marked “an escalation” in the ongoing terror wave.  SOURCE:   Times of Israel 3 FEB 2016 Staff
> 
> The Border Police are not members of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF).  The Border Police are Gendarmerie and a branch of the Israel National Police (INP).   It is a civilian police (Rule 5, Customary IHL), counterterrorist and law enforcement component of the INP.  The Border Police Officers that were killed just recently were "civilians."
> 
> Israeli Border Police Offices fall under Article 50 - Protocol I of the Geneva Convention:
> Definition of civilians and civilian population
> 
> 1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A (1), (2), (3) and (6) of the Third Convention and in Article 43  of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.
> 
> 2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.
> 
> 3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.​Israeli Border Police Officer fall under Article 4A(4) Third Geneva Convention:
> 
> (4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
> [/Index]
> 
> Rule #2, Customary IHL:  Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
> 
> Rule #6, Civilians' Loss of Protection from Attack: Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> When we were discussing the form, nature honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, ethical and moral fiber, we talked about this and how it is generationally spread.
> 
> LET IT BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) cannot be both honorable, heroic and making a meritorious sacrifice for the State of Palestine, --- and simultaneously --- intentionally directing an "Attack directed against any civilian population" in furtherance of a Palestinian Policy (Jihad or Armed Struggle) the Government of Palestine lending tacit approval to commit such attack by public praise.
> 
> The incident Wednesday was the first time that three Palestinians have been killed in the same place since the surge in violence which began in October. Much of the violence is fueled by incitement from the Palestinian Authority that calls terrorists martyrs and claim they will inherit paradise through deadly attacks.
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic militant group ruling the Gaza strip which the United Kingdom has designated as a terrorist group, praised the attack as "heroic", lauding the assailants' ability to reach Jerusalem despite a maze of Israeli checkpoints in the West Bank.
> *SOURCE:* Palestinians kill Israeli officer before being shot dead​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Israeli "police" attack Palestinian civilians they are combatants.
> 
> You consistently ignore the facts that Palestinians do not cross borders for their "attacks" and they do not attack protected persons as defined by IVGC.
> 
> This is just Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...







 And where does it say that in the Geneva conventions ?

 They have crossed many borders, because you don't recognise them as borders does not mean they don't exist. But mass murdering in Berlin, Entebbe and in Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt are all cross border attacks. Children in schools, coffee bars, clubs etc. are protected persons and they are the Palestinians normal targets.

 And your reply is just standard islamonazi propaganda LIES to try and deflect away from the reality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Diana Buttu*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## aris2chat

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?




this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????

This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??


----------



## RoccoR

aris2chat, Hollie, et al,

As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.



aris2chat said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.

As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
Click to expand...


Where and when are these acts occurring?
I would be willing to travel to Israel and check it out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where and when are these acts occurring?
> I would be willing to travel to Israel and check it out.
Click to expand...

You need to find out what they are first. Otherwise you could stumble over them and not know they are there.

The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where and when are these acts occurring?
> I would be willing to travel to Israel and check it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to find out what they are first. Otherwise you could stumble over them and not know they are there.
> 
> The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International
Click to expand...


I hate Smoke...
Where and when are these acts occurring?
I would be willing to travel to Israel and check it out.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Indeependent said:


> Where and when are these acts occurring?
> .




Only in the overactive imaginations of those with an extremely tenuous grasp on reality.

 Considering the absolutely enormous population explosion of these new made-up people called "palestinian", if Jews are trying to commit genocide, they are sure doing a piss poor job of it.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

What are you talking about?  "Genocide" was not even mentioned.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

For the purpose of this Statute (Part II Article 6), "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a)  Killing members of the group;

(b)  Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c)  Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d)  Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e)  Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. ​
Article 6 Genocide Introduction With respect to the last element listed for each crime: 

(a) The term “in the context of” would include the initial acts in an emerging pattern; 
(b) The term “manifest” is an objective qualification; 
(c) Notwithstanding the normal requirement for a mental element provided for in article 30, and recognizing that knowledge of the circumstances will usually be addressed in proving genocidal intent, the appropriate requirement, if any, for a mental element regarding this circumstance will need to be decided by the Court on a case-by-case basis. ​Article 6 
(a) Genocide by killing Elements 

1. The perpetrator killed one or more persons. 
2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 
3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. 
4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction. ​Article 6 
(b) Genocide by causing serious bodily or mental harm Elements 

1. The perpetrator caused serious bodily or mental harm to one or more persons. 
2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 
3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. 
4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.  ​Article 6 
(c) Genocide by deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction Elements 

1. The perpetrator inflicted certain conditions of life upon one or more persons. 
2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 
3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. 
4. The conditions of life were calculated to bring about the physical destruction of that group, in whole or in part. 
5. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction. ​Article 6 (d) Genocide by imposing measures intended to prevent births Elements 

1. The perpetrator imposed certain measures upon one or more persons. 
2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 
3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. 
4. The measures imposed were intended to prevent births within that group. 
5. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction. ​Article 6 
(e) Genocide by forcibly transferring children Elements 

1. The perpetrator forcibly transferred one or more persons. 
2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 
3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such. 
4. The transfer was from that group to another group. 
5. The person or persons were under the age of 18 years. 
6. The perpetrator knew, or should have known, that the person or persons were under the age of 18 years. 
7. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​
In the Last Half of the 20th Century ( 1951 to 2000 ) The more famous Genocide Events were:

3.3.1Australia 1900–1969
3.3.2Zanzibar
3.3.3Guatemala 1981–1983
3.3.4India (Sikh Genocide of 1984)
3.3.5Pakistan (Bangladesh War of 1971)
3.3.6Burundi 1972 and 1993
3.3.7North Korea
3.3.8Equatorial Guinea
3.3.9Indonesia
3.3.9.1East Timor
3.3.9.2West New Guinea/West Papua
3.3.9.3Indonesian killings of 1965–66
3.3.10Bangladesh
3.3.10.1Biharis
3.3.10.2Indigenous Chakmas
3.3.11Laos
3.3.12Argentina
3.3.13Ethiopia
3.3.14Iraq
3.3.15Tibet
3.3.16Brazil
3.3.17Democratic Republic of Congo
3.3.17.1Hutu
3.3.18Somalia
3.3.19Sri Lanka
3.3.20Myanmar
4.1.1Bosnia and Herzegovina
4.1.2Rwanda
4.1.3Cambodia
4.2.1Darfur, Sudan​
*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure that you know what that means,or what it entails.

Normally we know what is meant when one accuses another of "Genocide."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> What are you talking about?  "Genocide" was not even mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> For the purpose of this Statute (Part II Article 6), "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> 
> (a)  Killing members of the group;
> 
> (b)  Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> 
> (c)  Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> 
> (d)  Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> 
> (e)  Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.​Article 6 Genocide Introduction With respect to the last element listed for each crime:
> 
> (a) The term “in the context of” would include the initial acts in an emerging pattern;
> (b) The term “manifest” is an objective qualification;
> (c) Notwithstanding the normal requirement for a mental element provided for in article 30, and recognizing that knowledge of the circumstances will usually be addressed in proving genocidal intent, the appropriate requirement, if any, for a mental element regarding this circumstance will need to be decided by the Court on a case-by-case basis.​Article 6
> (a) Genocide by killing Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator killed one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6
> (b) Genocide by causing serious bodily or mental harm Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator caused serious bodily or mental harm to one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6
> (c) Genocide by deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator inflicted certain conditions of life upon one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The conditions of life were calculated to bring about the physical destruction of that group, in whole or in part.
> 5. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6 (d) Genocide by imposing measures intended to prevent births Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator imposed certain measures upon one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The measures imposed were intended to prevent births within that group.
> 5. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6
> (e) Genocide by forcibly transferring children Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator forcibly transferred one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The transfer was from that group to another group.
> 5. The person or persons were under the age of 18 years.
> 6. The perpetrator knew, or should have known, that the person or persons were under the age of 18 years.
> 7. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​
> In the Last Half of the 20th Century ( 1951 to 2000 ) The more famous Genocide Events were:
> 
> 3.3.1Australia 1900–1969
> 3.3.2Zanzibar
> 3.3.3Guatemala 1981–1983
> 3.3.4India (Sikh Genocide of 1984)
> 3.3.5Pakistan (Bangladesh War of 1971)
> 3.3.6Burundi 1972 and 1993
> 3.3.7North Korea
> 3.3.8Equatorial Guinea
> 3.3.9Indonesia
> 3.3.9.1East Timor
> 3.3.9.2West New Guinea/West Papua
> 3.3.9.3Indonesian killings of 1965–66
> 3.3.10Bangladesh
> 3.3.10.1Biharis
> 3.3.10.2Indigenous Chakmas
> 3.3.11Laos
> 3.3.12Argentina
> 3.3.13Ethiopia
> 3.3.14Iraq
> 3.3.15Tibet
> 3.3.16Brazil
> 3.3.17Democratic Republic of Congo
> 3.3.17.1Hutu
> 3.3.18Somalia
> 3.3.19Sri Lanka
> 3.3.20Myanmar
> 4.1.1Bosnia and Herzegovina
> 4.1.2Rwanda
> 4.1.3Cambodia
> 4.2.1Darfur, Sudan​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure that you know what that means,or what it entails.
> 
> Normally we know what is meant when one accuses another of "Genocide."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Thank you. Part C is particularly problematic. Of course there is no question about part A.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Gaza women turn heads with bike rides*

Gaza City (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - Four Palestinian women have turned heads in the Islamist-run Gaza Strip by doing what would pass unnoticed in many other places in the world: riding their bicycles.

*




*

When Sleibi takes her five-kilometre (three-mile) rides with her friends, all wearing leggings, jackets and trainers, she doesn't hesitate to stop to buy a bottle of water near a checkpoint run by Hamas security forces.

She says they greet her with a smile, like some of the drivers they pass, including those who stop to watch them go.

*Gaza women turn heads with bike rides*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Palestinians renovate church at Jesus’ birthplace *

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — After two years of painstaking work, experts have completed the initial phase of a delicate restoration project at the Church of the Nativity, giving a much-needed face-lift to one of Christianity’s holiest sites.

*



*

The Church of the Nativity, located in the biblical West Bank town of Bethlehem, was built by Saint Helena in the 4th century over the grotto where the Virgin Mary is said to have given birth to Jesus.

Palestinians renovate church at Jesus' birthplace


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Gaza women turn heads with bike rides*
> 
> Gaza City (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - Four Palestinian women have turned heads in the Islamist-run Gaza Strip by doing what would pass unnoticed in many other places in the world: riding their bicycles.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Sleibi takes her five-kilometre (three-mile) rides with her friends, all wearing leggings, jackets and trainers, she doesn't hesitate to stop to buy a bottle of water near a checkpoint run by Hamas security forces.
> 
> She says they greet her with a smile, like some of the drivers they pass, including those who stop to watch them go.
> 
> *Gaza women turn heads with bike rides*



Like the article said--this would go unnoticed in other countries.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Gaza women turn heads with bike rides*
> 
> Gaza City (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - Four Palestinian women have turned heads in the Islamist-run Gaza Strip by doing what would pass unnoticed in many other places in the world: riding their bicycles.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Sleibi takes her five-kilometre (three-mile) rides with her friends, all wearing leggings, jackets and trainers, she doesn't hesitate to stop to buy a bottle of water near a checkpoint run by Hamas security forces.
> 
> She says they greet her with a smile, like some of the drivers they pass, including those who stop to watch them go.
> 
> *Gaza women turn heads with bike rides*


Somewhere in Gaza'istan, a fatwa pen is scratching.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?\

*Longing and Belonging: Voyages with Nathalie Handal *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?





PMW Bulletins
Palestinian universities link reading and murder, honor terrorists
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 

Palestinian Media Watch reported that a "*human chain of readers*" was organized at Hebron University to honor murderer Baha Alyan. Now, Al-Quds University and Birzeit University have followed suit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Suheir Hammad*



**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Paklestinians?

*Suad Amiry*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

The internally displaced.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> The internally displaced.



You watch too many of these propaganda videos.  They play with your mind.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Death cultists in Islamic terror'istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Death cultists in Islamic terror'istan.


They attack their occupiers.

Shame on them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Haidar Eid*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
Click to expand...







 How about evidence of these so called acts of genocide then, as genocide even sloooowwwwww genocide is reducing the population by a greater figure than the population increases.


Or do you see genocide as increasing the population every year ?

 European Jewish genocide was the mass murder of over 75% of the European Jews.
 Armenian genocide was the mass murder of 90% of the Armenians
 Ukraine genocide was the mass murder of 90 % of the population of the Ukraine

Palestinian genocide is the increase of the Palestinian population by 20%


 Which is the odd one out ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where and when are these acts occurring?
> I would be willing to travel to Israel and check it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to find out what they are first. Otherwise you could stumble over them and not know they are there.
> 
> The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International
Click to expand...







 So you should be able to provide evidence of these having taken place from unbiased non partisan sources then. Until you do then you are inciting intolerance and violence against the Jews.

 You cant even provide one instance of any of the criteria that is not as a direct result of the attempted genocide of the Jews by the palestinians


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Death cultists in Islamic terror'istan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They attack their occupiers.
> 
> Shame on them.
Click to expand...

Israeli arabs are "occupied"? Have you fallen down again and bumped your head?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about evidence of these so called acts of genocide then, as genocide even sloooowwwwww genocide is reducing the population by a greater figure than the population increases.
> 
> 
> Or do you see genocide as increasing the population every year ?
> 
> European Jewish genocide was the mass murder of over 75% of the European Jews.
> Armenian genocide was the mass murder of 90% of the Armenians
> Ukraine genocide was the mass murder of 90 % of the population of the Ukraine
> 
> Palestinian genocide is the increase of the Palestinian population by 20%
> 
> 
> Which is the odd one out ?
Click to expand...

An act of genocide is an act of genocide regardless of its level of success.

*Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group *
includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.

The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International​
It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.

All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> What are you talking about?  "Genocide" was not even mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> For the purpose of this Statute (Part II Article 6), "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> 
> (a)  Killing members of the group;
> 
> (b)  Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> 
> (c)  Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> 
> (d)  Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> 
> (e)  Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.​Article 6 Genocide Introduction With respect to the last element listed for each crime:
> 
> (a) The term “in the context of” would include the initial acts in an emerging pattern;
> (b) The term “manifest” is an objective qualification;
> (c) Notwithstanding the normal requirement for a mental element provided for in article 30, and recognizing that knowledge of the circumstances will usually be addressed in proving genocidal intent, the appropriate requirement, if any, for a mental element regarding this circumstance will need to be decided by the Court on a case-by-case basis.​Article 6
> (a) Genocide by killing Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator killed one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6
> (b) Genocide by causing serious bodily or mental harm Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator caused serious bodily or mental harm to one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6
> (c) Genocide by deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator inflicted certain conditions of life upon one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The conditions of life were calculated to bring about the physical destruction of that group, in whole or in part.
> 5. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6 (d) Genocide by imposing measures intended to prevent births Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator imposed certain measures upon one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The measures imposed were intended to prevent births within that group.
> 5. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​Article 6
> (e) Genocide by forcibly transferring children Elements
> 
> 1. The perpetrator forcibly transferred one or more persons.
> 2. Such person or persons belonged to a particular national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
> 3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
> 4. The transfer was from that group to another group.
> 5. The person or persons were under the age of 18 years.
> 6. The perpetrator knew, or should have known, that the person or persons were under the age of 18 years.
> 7. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.​
> In the Last Half of the 20th Century ( 1951 to 2000 ) The more famous Genocide Events were:
> 
> 3.3.1Australia 1900–1969
> 3.3.2Zanzibar
> 3.3.3Guatemala 1981–1983
> 3.3.4India (Sikh Genocide of 1984)
> 3.3.5Pakistan (Bangladesh War of 1971)
> 3.3.6Burundi 1972 and 1993
> 3.3.7North Korea
> 3.3.8Equatorial Guinea
> 3.3.9Indonesia
> 3.3.9.1East Timor
> 3.3.9.2West New Guinea/West Papua
> 3.3.9.3Indonesian killings of 1965–66
> 3.3.10Bangladesh
> 3.3.10.1Biharis
> 3.3.10.2Indigenous Chakmas
> 3.3.11Laos
> 3.3.12Argentina
> 3.3.13Ethiopia
> 3.3.14Iraq
> 3.3.15Tibet
> 3.3.16Brazil
> 3.3.17Democratic Republic of Congo
> 3.3.17.1Hutu
> 3.3.18Somalia
> 3.3.19Sri Lanka
> 3.3.20Myanmar
> 4.1.1Bosnia and Herzegovina
> 4.1.2Rwanda
> 4.1.3Cambodia
> 4.2.1Darfur, Sudan​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure that you know what that means,or what it entails.
> 
> Normally we know what is meant when one accuses another of "Genocide."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Part C is particularly problematic. Of course there is no question about part A.
Click to expand...






True the Palestinians have it as part of their national charter to kill all the Jews.

 The Jews don't have it as part of their national charter do they, in fact they only kill when attacked as in Cast Lead or Protective Edge which were not genocides but aspects of war started by the Palestinians. Simple answer don't engage in war if you don't want to see your human shields killed. Then you wont have to tell lies for them about fantasy genocides and land thefts


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Death cultists in Islamic terror'istan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They attack their occupiers.
> 
> Shame on them.
Click to expand...





\it is the death rape cultists that follow islam that are the occupiers, they have no rights to the land. Unless you can find a treaty by the LoN or the Ottomans conveying such rights on the nomadic itinerant farm workers that moved from place to place. The scum you claim are indigenous palestinians


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about evidence of these so called acts of genocide then, as genocide even sloooowwwwww genocide is reducing the population by a greater figure than the population increases.
> 
> 
> Or do you see genocide as increasing the population every year ?
> 
> European Jewish genocide was the mass murder of over 75% of the European Jews.
> Armenian genocide was the mass murder of 90% of the Armenians
> Ukraine genocide was the mass murder of 90 % of the population of the Ukraine
> 
> Palestinian genocide is the increase of the Palestinian population by 20%
> 
> 
> Which is the odd one out ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An act of genocide is an act of genocide regardless of its level of success.
> 
> *Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group *
> includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.
> 
> The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International​
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
Click to expand...







 So produce verifiable links to these alleged acts then show that they are not because of the attacks on Israel by Palestinian terrorists.  20,000 tons of supplies enter gaza and are promptly stolen by hamas to be sold on the black market.  piped in only for the steel pipes to be stolen by hamas to make rockets with. Clothing is not in short supply as the pictures show, medicines are again stolen by hamas to be sold elsewhere. Ample food is allowed in so it is not blockaded. No detention in camps other than that imposed by hamas, no forced relocation or expulsions into the desert

Only if the structures are used for military matters, No evidence of this, planted illegally on Israeli land, dug illegally.



 As I keep pointing out you provide no concrete evidence, just the same islamonazi propaganda from the same islamonazi sites


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about evidence of these so called acts of genocide then, as genocide even sloooowwwwww genocide is reducing the population by a greater figure than the population increases.
> 
> 
> Or do you see genocide as increasing the population every year ?
> 
> European Jewish genocide was the mass murder of over 75% of the European Jews.
> Armenian genocide was the mass murder of 90% of the Armenians
> Ukraine genocide was the mass murder of 90 % of the population of the Ukraine
> 
> Palestinian genocide is the increase of the Palestinian population by 20%
> 
> 
> Which is the odd one out ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An act of genocide is an act of genocide regardless of its level of success.
> 
> *Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group *
> includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.
> 
> The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International​
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
Click to expand...








 WRONG as they are acts of retribution as detailed in the Geneva conventions.  Water is provided so hamas steals the pipes. Food is provided so hamas steal it, clothing is in plentiful supply, shelter is a matter for the P.A., but fire from civilian areas and the civilian areas will be destroyed. Again hamas steals medical supplies.

 Keep trying as up to now you have shown that you are blind to the truth, and have no interest in hearing the reality.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat, Hollie, et al,
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian promotes terrorism, and the policy of Jihad, there should be no nation building assistance by any external governments.  As long as the Arab Palestinians intentionally target civilians, there should be no nation building by donors.
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is nation building peaceful future for palestinians ??????
> 
> This primary education.... higher education is tunnels and bombs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a continuing threat to the sovereignty of the State of Israel there sholud be no external support for improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, infrastructure development,  economic for better commerce and employment.
> 
> As long as the Arabs of Palestine are duty and honor bound to carry out terrorist attack by Jihadist and Fedayeen to actively oppose the recommendation of partition; or recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, or any political development derived from them, there should be no fiscal support provided in any manner that might have use as paramilitary tool or weapon for the asymmetric forces of the Arab Palestinians or any of the regional threats.  As long as the Arab Palestinians are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the 1948 settlement, the outcome and peaceful reconciliation as seen by Egypt and Jordan, ---- no support should be rendered.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel's acts of genocide should continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about evidence of these so called acts of genocide then, as genocide even sloooowwwwww genocide is reducing the population by a greater figure than the population increases.
> 
> 
> Or do you see genocide as increasing the population every year ?
> 
> European Jewish genocide was the mass murder of over 75% of the European Jews.
> Armenian genocide was the mass murder of 90% of the Armenians
> Ukraine genocide was the mass murder of 90 % of the population of the Ukraine
> 
> Palestinian genocide is the increase of the Palestinian population by 20%
> 
> 
> Which is the odd one out ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An act of genocide is an act of genocide regardless of its level of success.
> 
> *Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group *
> includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.
> 
> The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International​
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
Click to expand...


Except for demolishing the houses of terrorists, Israel doesn't do any of these acts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians?

Fatah celebrates murder of American tourist - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
Fatah celebrates murder of American touristby Itamar Marcus 
Mar. 9, 2016                

Fatah celebrates murder of American tourist

Fatah: Murderer of American tourist is “heroic Martyr” 
PA TV News: American victim is “settler”


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*



Too many palestinians celebrate violence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.



As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.  

But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
Click to expand...

Israel's intent has always been:

To cleans Palestinians from their land.
To wipe Palestine off the map.
To erase Palestinians from history.
By any means necessary.

Does that count?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

It seems to me that "by any means necessary" is the Arab Palestinian montra.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

OH, give me a break.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It seems to me that "by any means necessary" is the Arab Palestinian montra.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, give me a break.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A break from what?

The truth?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
Click to expand...



As genocide?  No.  You have proven neither the conditions necessary for genocide (destruction of the group) nor intent.  

1.  Ethnic cleansing (heinous as it is) is not equivalent to genocide.
2.  Shifting national borders and names is not equivalent to genocide.
3.  Creating a historical narrative from one's own pov is not equivalent to genocide.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As genocide?  No.  You have proven neither the conditions necessary for genocide (destruction of the group) nor intent.
> 
> 1.  Ethnic cleansing (heinous as it is) is not equivalent to genocide.
> 2.  Shifting national borders and names is not equivalent to genocide.
> 3.  Creating a historical narrative from one's own pov is not equivalent to genocide.
Click to expand...

My last post was to show intent. My previous post listed some acts of genocide.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As genocide?  No.  You have proven neither the conditions necessary for genocide (destruction of the group) nor intent.
> 
> 1.  Ethnic cleansing (heinous as it is) is not equivalent to genocide.
> 2.  Shifting national borders and names is not equivalent to genocide.
> 3.  Creating a historical narrative from one's own pov is not equivalent to genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My last post was to show intent. My previous post listed some acts of genocide.
Click to expand...

Neither of which support your claims.

If you want a prescription for genocide, Just read the Hamas Charter and study Islamist ideology. 

Actions speak with the utmost clarity and your homework assignment is to study the failed attacks on Israel from combined Islamist armies and the words/actions of the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


Oooooooo, terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


Fatah Facebook posts image promoting stabbings, glorifies “heroic Martyr” who stabbed 12 people, killing 1

Fatah Facebook posts image promoting stabbings, glorifies “heroic Martyr” who stabbed 12 people, killing 1 - Glorifying terrorists and terror | PMW


Text and image posted on the official Fatah Facebook page on March 9, 2016

Posted text:  “The heroic Martyr (_Shahid_)
Bashar Masalha, picture by Muhammad Al-Tawil
This is the result as long as Israel does not believe in the two-state solution and the end of the occupation”

The image shows a hand with a knife over a map of “Palestine” which includes the PA areas as well as all of Israel.
*Text on arm:* “The heroic Martyr (_Shahid_)”
*Text on map*: “Bashar Masalha”
*Click to view bulletin*

_Bashar Masalha - 22-year-old Palestinian terrorist who carried out a stabbing attack, murdering Taylor Force, an American tourist, and injuring 11, in Tel Aviv-Jaffa on March 8, 2016. Masalha was shot and killed by Israeli police._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Leila Sansour*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?

Al-Aquds and Birzeit University students form "chain of readers" in terrorist’s honor

Al-Aquds and Birzeit University students form "chain of readers" in terrorist’s honor - Glorifying terrorists and terror | PMW


Al-Aquds and Birzeit University students form "chain of readers" in terrorist’s honor
Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Feb. 21, 2016

Headline: "Baha Alyan - the body is no longer, but the idea lives"
     "At 10:00 a.m. reading and Martyr time, more than 500 students of Birzeit University gathered at the entrance to the humanities faculty and waited for Muhammad Alyan, father of Martyr Baha Alyan (i.e., terrorist who participated in attack where 3 Israelis were murdered) the first who had the idea of a chain of readers, and the family of Martyr Muhannad Halabi (i.e., terrorist who murdered 2), who all came in order to commemorate the idea of a chain of readers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?

They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.


----------



## RoccoR

Hollie, et al,

When I first read this, I immediately thought in terms of Interpal, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, and the International Humanitarian Aid Organization ( Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation).



Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.


*(COMMENT)*

But now I think a bit differently.  The Palestinians get a huge amount of aid.  Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself.  It is 124 Donor  $1,323,855,183.

2014 List  or remnants since 2006 of Terrorist Organizations in Palestine alone:


Fatah Movement (Sectarian Palestinian, Nationalist-Separatist)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Sunni Al-Quds Brigade = Military Wing; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (Fatah Ally; Sectarian Palestinian Nationalists)
Popular Resistance Committees (Military Wing = Al-Nasser-Salahaddin Brigades; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist
*HAMAS (Military Wing = al-Qassam Brigades ; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)*
Jund Ansar Allah (AQ; Safafi-Wahhabi JIhadist)
Jund-Allah (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
Jundallah in Palestine (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
Abu Nidal Organization (Sunni)
Islamic Renewal Organization in Sinai - Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
Palestine Liberation Front (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
Palestine Liberation Organization (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist--Separatist)
Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, et al,
> 
> When I first read this, I immediately thought in terms of Interpal, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, and the International Humanitarian Aid Organization ( Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But now I think a bit differently.  The Palestinians get a huge amount of aid.  Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself.  It is 124 Donor  $1,323,855,183.
> 
> 2014 List  or remnants since 2006 of Terrorist Organizations in Palestine alone:
> 
> 
> Fatah Movement (Sectarian Palestinian, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Sunni Al-Quds Brigade = Military Wing; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (Fatah Ally; Sectarian Palestinian Nationalists)
> Popular Resistance Committees (Military Wing = Al-Nasser-Salahaddin Brigades; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist
> *HAMAS (Military Wing = al-Qassam Brigades ; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)*
> Jund Ansar Allah (AQ; Safafi-Wahhabi JIhadist)
> Jund-Allah (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Jundallah in Palestine (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Abu Nidal Organization (Sunni)
> Islamic Renewal Organization in Sinai - Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Palestine Liberation Front (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestine Liberation Organization (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist--Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

 
Are there* any* organizations in Palestine that are *not* terrorists to the third grade name callers in the "west?"


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, et al,
> 
> When I first read this, I immediately thought in terms of Interpal, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, and the International Humanitarian Aid Organization ( Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But now I think a bit differently.  The Palestinians get a huge amount of aid.  Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself.  It is 124 Donor  $1,323,855,183.
> 
> 2014 List  or remnants since 2006 of Terrorist Organizations in Palestine alone:
> 
> 
> Fatah Movement (Sectarian Palestinian, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Sunni Al-Quds Brigade = Military Wing; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (Fatah Ally; Sectarian Palestinian Nationalists)
> Popular Resistance Committees (Military Wing = Al-Nasser-Salahaddin Brigades; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist
> *HAMAS (Military Wing = al-Qassam Brigades ; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)*
> Jund Ansar Allah (AQ; Safafi-Wahhabi JIhadist)
> Jund-Allah (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Jundallah in Palestine (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Abu Nidal Organization (Sunni)
> Islamic Renewal Organization in Sinai - Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Palestine Liberation Front (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestine Liberation Organization (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist--Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself. It is 124 Donor $1,323,855,183.​
Indeed, Israel costs everyone a lot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?
*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, et al,
> 
> When I first read this, I immediately thought in terms of Interpal, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, and the International Humanitarian Aid Organization ( Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But now I think a bit differently.  The Palestinians get a huge amount of aid.  Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself.  It is 124 Donor  $1,323,855,183.
> 
> 2014 List  or remnants since 2006 of Terrorist Organizations in Palestine alone:
> 
> 
> Fatah Movement (Sectarian Palestinian, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Sunni Al-Quds Brigade = Military Wing; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (Fatah Ally; Sectarian Palestinian Nationalists)
> Popular Resistance Committees (Military Wing = Al-Nasser-Salahaddin Brigades; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist
> *HAMAS (Military Wing = al-Qassam Brigades ; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)*
> Jund Ansar Allah (AQ; Safafi-Wahhabi JIhadist)
> Jund-Allah (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Jundallah in Palestine (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Abu Nidal Organization (Sunni)
> Islamic Renewal Organization in Sinai - Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Palestine Liberation Front (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestine Liberation Organization (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist--Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself. It is 124 Donor $1,323,855,183.​
> Indeed, Israel costs everyone a lot.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the so-called Pal'istanians have learned that Islamic terrorism pays. An invented people with an invented national identity have managed to maintain the world's largest welfare scam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr Ghada Karmi*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dr Ghada Karmi*


The tragedy of '_Pal'istanian Mentaity™_


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?

Iran pledges thousands of dollars for Palestinian terrorists

*Iran pledges thousands of dollars for Palestinian terrorists*


Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists - a disposable commodity to serve the interests of IJH addled Iranian Mullocrats and manipulative Arabs. 

Dead Palis. A dime a' dozen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noura Erakat*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Tala Alfoqaha*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
Click to expand...








 Only if you can prove it using an unbiased  non partisan source that does not link to an islamonazi propagandist site.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a *regular practice* of Israel to demolish homes, bulldoze or poison crops, uproot trees, destroy cisterns and wells.
> 
> All of these fall in the description of acts of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, Israel does none of these things other than demolishing homes of terrorists and those which are illegally built.
> 
> But acts of genocide also require INTENT.  And there is no such intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's intent has always been:
> 
> To cleans Palestinians from their land.
> To wipe Palestine off the map.
> To erase Palestinians from history.
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Does that count?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As genocide?  No.  You have proven neither the conditions necessary for genocide (destruction of the group) nor intent.
> 
> 1.  Ethnic cleansing (heinous as it is) is not equivalent to genocide.
> 2.  Shifting national borders and names is not equivalent to genocide.
> 3.  Creating a historical narrative from one's own pov is not equivalent to genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My last post was to show intent. My previous post listed some acts of genocide.
Click to expand...






 That are about as valid as your use of islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?








 Going on the numbers murdered in the last year I would say NO THEY ARE NOT


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooo, terrorists.
Click to expand...






 Are you denying that even the arab world see's the Palestinians as being terrorists ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, et al,
> 
> When I first read this, I immediately thought in terms of Interpal, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, and the International Humanitarian Aid Organization ( Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But now I think a bit differently.  The Palestinians get a huge amount of aid.  Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself.  It is 124 Donor  $1,323,855,183.
> 
> 2014 List  or remnants since 2006 of Terrorist Organizations in Palestine alone:
> 
> 
> Fatah Movement (Sectarian Palestinian, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Sunni Al-Quds Brigade = Military Wing; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (Fatah Ally; Sectarian Palestinian Nationalists)
> Popular Resistance Committees (Military Wing = Al-Nasser-Salahaddin Brigades; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist
> *HAMAS (Military Wing = al-Qassam Brigades ; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)*
> Jund Ansar Allah (AQ; Safafi-Wahhabi JIhadist)
> Jund-Allah (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Jundallah in Palestine (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Abu Nidal Organization (Sunni)
> Islamic Renewal Organization in Sinai - Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Palestine Liberation Front (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestine Liberation Organization (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist--Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are there* any* organizations in Palestine that are *not* terrorists to the third grade name callers in the "west?"
Click to expand...






 No and there are none that are not terrorists to the civilised nations Either. It is only morons like you that deny the truth


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, et al,
> 
> When I first read this, I immediately thought in terms of Interpal, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, and the International Humanitarian Aid Organization ( Internationale Humanitäre Hilfsorganisation).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> They're the Islamic terrorists who run the world's most successful welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But now I think a bit differently.  The Palestinians get a huge amount of aid.  Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself.  It is 124 Donor  $1,323,855,183.
> 
> 2014 List  or remnants since 2006 of Terrorist Organizations in Palestine alone:
> 
> 
> Fatah Movement (Sectarian Palestinian, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Sunni Al-Quds Brigade = Military Wing; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)
> Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (Fatah Ally; Sectarian Palestinian Nationalists)
> Popular Resistance Committees (Military Wing = Al-Nasser-Salahaddin Brigades; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist
> *HAMAS (Military Wing = al-Qassam Brigades ; Mainstream Islamist, Nationalist-Separatist)*
> Jund Ansar Allah (AQ; Safafi-Wahhabi JIhadist)
> Jund-Allah (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Jundallah in Palestine (Sunni Safafi-JIhadist)
> Abu Nidal Organization (Sunni)
> Islamic Renewal Organization in Sinai - Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)
> Palestine Liberation Front (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist-Separatist)
> Palestine Liberation Organization (Mainstream Islamist; Nationalist--Separatist)
> Jaish al-Ummah in Palestine (Sunni, Pro-AQ)​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hell, the 2014 donor contribution list for the UNRWA alone is unbelievable just by itself. It is 124 Donor $1,323,855,183.​
> Indeed, Israel costs everyone a lot.
Click to expand...






 Does it, I wonder how you would fare if Israel stopped supporting you. I wonder when the Palestinians are going to start bringing out new chips for car ECU systems to allow them to be more economical and fuel efficient ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Mennel*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanans?

*Killer of Israeli teen is "heroic prisoner," according to PA Governorate - PMW Bulletins

Killer of Israeli teen is “heroic prisoner”*
[Ramallah Facebook page]

*Governor of Ramallah meets with family of killer of 16-year-old Ofir Rahum and is “counting the days until it can receive Abd Al-Fattah (i.e., the killer) as a free man”*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?





Yet another meaningful post Tinnie..........you are such a superior poster,compared to the abnormal Dross on here..steve


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins

*Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians, 
including 12 children *

*- Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”*


*- PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”*

*- Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs”*


----------



## RoccoR

Hollie,  et al,

I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.

_*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
*SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
_Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​


Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.

Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).

Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

•   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
•   Prevent such conduct;
•   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:

•  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
•  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
•  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
•  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
•  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
•  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.

It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ramzy Baroud *~ My Father Was a Freedom Fighter


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? *Ramzy Baroud *~ My Father Was a Freedom Fighter


And fought freedom, and freedom died.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ramzy Baroud *~ My Father Was a Freedom Fighter








 ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA LIES


----------



## Mindful

Muslim Woman in Hijab Walks Through The Streets of Israel, What Happens Next Will Shock The UN | JewTube.tv


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Muslim Woman in Hijab Walks Through The Streets of Israel, What Happens Next Will Shock The UN | JewTube.tv


It isn't as much of a problem between Muslims and Jews as it is with the assholes in the government.

It is Israel's policies that drive the conflict.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim Woman in Hijab Walks Through The Streets of Israel, What Happens Next Will Shock The UN | JewTube.tv
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't as much of a problem between Muslims and Jews as it is with the assholes in the government.
> 
> It is Israel's policies that drive the conflict.
Click to expand...







 So never Islam's policies though, even with such commands as " KILL THE JEWS " and  " STRIKE TERROR IN THEIR HEARTS " as fundamental aspects of their religion.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim Woman in Hijab Walks Through The Streets of Israel, What Happens Next Will Shock The UN | JewTube.tv
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't as much of a problem between Muslims and Jews as it is with the assholes in the government.
> 
> It is Israel's policies that drive the conflict.
Click to expand...

Press tv. The tv of choice for conspiracy theorists, Islamist retrogrades and the propaganda groupies.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim Woman in Hijab Walks Through The Streets of Israel, What Happens Next Will Shock The UN | JewTube.tv
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't as much of a problem between Muslims and Jews as it is with the assholes in the government.
> 
> It is Israel's policies that drive the conflict.
Click to expand...



Yawn.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim Woman in Hijab Walks Through The Streets of Israel, What Happens Next Will Shock The UN | JewTube.tv
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't as much of a problem between Muslims and Jews as it is with the assholes in the government.
> 
> It is Israel's policies that drive the conflict.
Click to expand...

I feel slighted that you didn't include the Great Satan in your list of those responsible for Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.
> 
> _*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
> The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
> *SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
> _Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.
> 
> Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).
> 
> Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> •   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> •   Prevent such conduct;
> •   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:
> 
> •  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
> •  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
> •  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
> •  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
> •  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
> •  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
> Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
> Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.
> 
> It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,

You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.



P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.


*(COMMENT)*

The general criteria used in Central Europe is:

*SUMMARY*
The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.

Definitions

"Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.

"Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:

attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
kidnapping or hostage-taking;
causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
*Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*

The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.

List of individuals and entities concerned

The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:

CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
*Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
*SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.

*Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013


"The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*

The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The list of terrorist acts includes:

attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
kidnapping or hostage-taking;
causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
This is Israel to a T. And the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands while they are attacked on their own land.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



"_I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that..._"

I was thinking about the wisdom of giving a pro-Arab/Moslem terrorist bullets....

Oh, never mind.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> This is Israel to a T. And the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands while they are attacked on their own land.
Click to expand...


Yes, tinmore. Aside from working for a living, Israelis have nothing better to do than antagonize the Islamic terrorists occupying disputed territories next to them.

Working for a living. Building a productive society. Those are some life priorities that much of the relevant first world is focused on. Arab-Moslems living with a 1,400 year old hate and war manual and a dedicated welfare agency to provide for them, well, the results are obvious.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians.​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians.​
Click to expand...


It's a shame that the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories feel an entitlement to further acts of Islamic terrorism. 

But hey, life is cheap in the twisted calculus of Islamic terrorists, especially when dead Arabs-Moslems make such good copy on the nightly news after taking another humiliating beating.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.

I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?



Do you think anyone watches these biased, one-sided videos?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
*
Fatah sanctions stabbing attacks against Israelis

Fatah sanctions stabbing attacks against Israelis - PMW Bulletins*

*Emphasizing its support for stabbing attacks against Israelis, Abbas' Fatah movement posted a photo of a knife on Twitter, claiming that young Palestinians "follow this path" because Israel "forces" them to:
"Israel is forcing the young Palestinians to follow this path to Jerusalem. 
Leave our land, you, your occupation, and your soldiers, and let us live in peace."
[Official Fatah Twitter account, March 27, 2016]
*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
Click to expand...


World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
Related: WORLD
*EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT

EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list

EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think anyone watches these biased, one-sided videos?
Click to expand...

Sure, some people want to learn.

Some people don't.

It is their choice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
> Related: WORLD
> *EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
> BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT
> 
> EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list
> 
> EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.
Click to expand...

What dumbshit wrote this report?

Hamas has fought several wars with Israel since seizing power from Fatah in Gaza in 2007.​
Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office.

So what does this clown mean by seizing power?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
> Related: WORLD
> *EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
> BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT
> 
> EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list
> 
> EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dumbshit wrote this report?
> 
> Hamas has fought several wars with Israel since seizing power from Fatah in Gaza in 2007.​
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office.
> 
> So what does this clown mean by seizing power?
Click to expand...


He was likely just referring to politics as usual in the land of the Islamist retrograde. Political power is so often the result of the islamo-tribe with the largest caliber of weapon slaughtering the opposing tribe.

There were reports that the retrogrades in Hamas used torture and summary executions in the war with the Fatah knuckle draggers. More than 600 islamo's died rather brutal deaths at the hand of their fellow islamo's. 

Allahu certainly is Akbar.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.
> 
> _*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
> The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
> *SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
> _Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.
> 
> Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).
> 
> Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> •   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> •   Prevent such conduct;
> •   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:
> 
> •  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
> •  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
> •  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
> •  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
> •  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
> •  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
> Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
> Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.
> 
> It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
Click to expand...







 Cant you read the list that details the criteria needed to be put on it, it is there for all to see. Start with the many definitions of what constitutes terrorism,


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.
> 
> _*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
> The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
> *SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
> _Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.
> 
> Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).
> 
> Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> •   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> •   Prevent such conduct;
> •   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:
> 
> •  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
> •  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
> •  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
> •  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
> •  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
> •  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
> Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
> Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.
> 
> It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
Click to expand...







 Cant you read the list that details the criteria needed to be put on it, it is there for all to see. Start with the many definitions of what constitutes terrorism,


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.
> 
> _*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
> The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
> *SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
> _Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.
> 
> Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).
> 
> Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> •   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> •   Prevent such conduct;
> •   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:
> 
> •  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
> •  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
> •  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
> •  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
> •  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
> •  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
> Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
> Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.
> 
> It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
Click to expand...







 Their terrorist actions of course, what else could it have been


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> This is Israel to a T. And the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands while they are attacked on their own land.
Click to expand...






 Nope as Israel responds to terrorist acts with force, they do not try and terrorise a group to force them to accede to their ideology, religion or political views


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians.​
Click to expand...









 Showing that hamas uses civilians and children as human shields when they are fighting the Israelis


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
Click to expand...





 Did they, then how come they are still on every EU nations list of terrorist groups. Showing that the EU courts have less clout than the UN in these matters. It was done as a paper exercise to quieten the left wing lunatics and the muslim hordes before the expulsions start. Lets just say that the muslims in the EU will very soon be running back to " Syria " for safety.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?








 Read the comments and see how the world views the Palestinians now


 You know, I've been open minded enough to watch these ask a palestinian videos for a while, and never ceases to amaze *how much Palestinians lie*. You can't ever grt a straight answer from them.

 The guy admitted that there was freedom of movement when he grew up. So what happened? *Palestinians infiltrated Israel and killed innocent Israelis, so they are the ones who created the checkpoints and security fence*. Then snipers started shooting Israeli kids on their way to school through the fence, so they are the ones who built the wall


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
> Related: WORLD
> *EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
> BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT
> 
> EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list
> 
> EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dumbshit wrote this report?
> 
> Hamas has fought several wars with Israel since seizing power from Fatah in Gaza in 2007.​
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office.
> 
> So what does this clown mean by seizing power?
Click to expand...







 Exactly what the world saw when hamas ran amok in gaza and started killing anyone suspected of having ties to fatah. They mass murdered children by throwing them from buildings or spraying them with bullets. This caused a backlash in the west bank that resulted in another bloodbath which now has the Palestinians virtually stateless again and no proper government. And it is all the fault of the Palestinian terrorists.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I get a good laugh from the Arab-Palestinian movement and their constant whining about Israel being a terrorist country.



P F Tinmore said:


> The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> This is Israel to a T. And the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands while they are attacked on their own land.


*(COMMENT)*

There is a big difference between the more traditional combat operations characteristics of Second and Third Generation Warfare and the Asymmetric and Jihadist activities conducted by the Fourth Generational radicalized Islamist.

There is a huge difference between the immoral and radicalized Islamist that cannot tell the difference between a conventional warfare operation by the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) and the slaughter unleashed by Palestinian terrorists at the 1972 Olympics in Munich.  In trying to justify their actions and blur the distinctions between the intentional targeting of non-combatant civilians.

There is a very huge difference between assembling forces along a line of departure to engage Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in open combat - and - policy of no advance warnings (Rule 20), distinguishing the difference between military targets and civilians in target selection (Rule 21), the puposeful location and concealment of military objectives and launch facilities in densely populated areas (Rule 23), and the intentional objection to the removal of civilians from the vicinity of military operations (Rule 24) in order to  render certain points HoAP immune from IDF counterattacks.

There is a certain immoral Islamic character to the HoAP using Medical Transports (Ambulances) to shuttle insurgents and jihadist to-and-from engagements (Rule 29); and the use of hospital, safety and neutral zones to conceal HoAP military operations, hostile command and control activities, and weapons storage  from destruction (Rule 35).

There is a big difference between the kidnapping and murder of noncombatants or the murder of captured and kidnapped protected persons and civilians during the piracy of  ships and the hijacking of aircraft; and any operation of the IDF.

There is a difference between the initiation indiscriminate fire on civilian targets, and the specific selection and targeting of HoAP operations (Rule 11).​
And I could drag the list on and on.  The point being is that it is childish and ignorant to suggest that one cannot see that there is a big difference between Jihadist, Terrorist, Insurgent and Asymmetric Operations of the HoAP that specifically target the weak, unarmed, old and infirm, children and women, at markets, bus stops, schools and gathering places and the Operations of the IDF.  Yes, Arab-Palestinians civilians, non- combatants, and protected persons are inadvertantly killed in the struggle.  But that is almost entirely based on the total disregard of Rules 20 thru 24.  It is a sacrifice strategy to create the appearance that the IDF has no regard for Palestinians that initiate hostilities.

There is nothing so despicable in this world than radicalized Islamists, terrorist, jihadist and insurgent that hides behind the coattails and skirts of women as a means of cover and concealment in combat.  And rarely, throughout history, has there ever been a more cowardly and spineless opponent than that exemplified by the HoAP.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Most counterterrorist information is not in the public domain; but in protected or classified channels for law enforcement purposes only.



P F Tinmore said:


> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.


*(COMMENT)*

There is not a single country in Europe that has not, at one time or another, been struck by Hostile Arab Palestinians.  In recent times the  Salafi Mujahideen _(jihadist outfits in various countries)_ and the Radicalized Islamist _(hostility oriented mixing of Islam and politics)_ have become acutely aware of the danger posed by these unrestrained Islamic elements that are caught in an endless cycle of violence.

Much of what is learned about the foundation of Radicalized and Hostility comes from what the leadership of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) tells us about itself.




			
				[SIZE=4 said:
			
		

> Hamas leader: No peace under Israeli occupation][/SIZE]
> "When Israel practically commits itself to withdraw from Gaza completely and the West Bank without any settlements, and if we have Jerusalem as our capital and the return of the refugees is there, then we will reach peace," Meshaal said through a translator in an exclusive interview with Charlie Rose, which will appear in full on PBS.
> 
> He compared the Hamas-Israel conflict to the American Revolution.
> 
> "Was it peaceful? Did you not kick the British out? So the nations, if they have the peaceful window to reach peace then they will better. Because we don't like to kill our sons and daughters. But if you don't have the peace then the resistance is legitimate. So the world has two choices: they need to help us peacefully reach [statehood] or we will expel this occupation from our land."
> 
> Meshaal expressed his frustration with how the international community was responding to the conflict.
> 
> "Why do you call for security for Israel and why don't you call for lifting the siege and stopping the occupation on the Palestinians? Why don't you give the right to live for the Palestinians as the other nations? This is actually the last occupation in the world," said Meshaal.
> 
> *SOURCE:* By JEAN SONG CBS NEWS 28 July 2014



As several generations before him, Khaled Meshaal, tries to paint the picture that there is a similarity between the American Revolution and the Arab Palestinian attempt to undermine the UN Recommendations that led Israel to declare Independence.  It is an unsophisticated ploy to draw sympathy for the adoption of the argument that the less leadership of a lesser developed people should have control over one of the most productive and developed countries in the world.

Open Source material, such as news accounts, are often used as part of complex investigations.  There is nothing new in this.

You are not going to sit there and tell us that the HoAP did not ambush the old and infirm, kidnap and murder the unarmed and defenseless, hijack airliners, were involved in piracy, or participated in suicide bombings.  You are not going to tell us that HAMAS and FATAH have never celebrated a Palestinians terrorist attack .  ----  Come on!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Most counterterrorist information is not in the public domain; but in protected or classified channels for law enforcement purposes only.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is not a single country in Europe that has not, at one time or another, been struck by Hostile Arab Palestinians.  In recent times the  Salafi Mujahideen _(jihadist outfits in various countries)_ and the Radicalized Islamist _(hostility oriented mixing of Islam and politics)_ have become acutely aware of the danger posed by these unrestrained Islamic elements that are caught in an endless cycle of violence.
> 
> Much of what is learned about the foundation of Radicalized and Hostility comes from what the leadership of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) tells us about itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader: No peace under Israeli occupation][/SIZE]
> "When Israel practically commits itself to withdraw from Gaza completely and the West Bank without any settlements, and if we have Jerusalem as our capital and the return of the refugees is there, then we will reach peace," Meshaal said through a translator in an exclusive interview with Charlie Rose, which will appear in full on PBS.
> 
> He compared the Hamas-Israel conflict to the American Revolution.
> 
> "Was it peaceful? Did you not kick the British out? So the nations, if they have the peaceful window to reach peace then they will better. Because we don't like to kill our sons and daughters. But if you don't have the peace then the resistance is legitimate. So the world has two choices: they need to help us peacefully reach [statehood] or we will expel this occupation from our land."
> 
> Meshaal expressed his frustration with how the international community was responding to the conflict.
> 
> "Why do you call for security for Israel and why don't you call for lifting the siege and stopping the occupation on the Palestinians? Why don't you give the right to live for the Palestinians as the other nations? This is actually the last occupation in the world," said Meshaal.
> 
> *SOURCE:* By JEAN SONG CBS NEWS 28 July 2014
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As several generations before him, Khaled Meshaal, tries to paint the picture that there is a similarity between the American Revolution and the Arab Palestinian attempt to undermine the UN Recommendations that led Israel to declare Independence.  It is an unsophisticated ploy to draw sympathy for the adoption of the argument that the less leadership of a lesser developed people should have control over one of the most productive and developed countries in the world.
> 
> Open Source material, such as news accounts, are often used as part of complex investigations.  There is nothing new in this.
> 
> You are not going to sit there and tell us that the HoAP did not ambush the old and infirm, kidnap and murder the unarmed and defenseless, hijack airliners, were involved in piracy, or participated in suicide bombings.  You are not going to tell us that HAMAS and FATAH have never celebrated a Palestinians terrorist attack .  ----  Come on!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


You are such a partisan racist Rocco. What's wrong with you. Experts on terrorism have studied the subject and Israel has killed far more of the infirm, women and children than the Palestinians will ever kill. You are so blinded by your hate of Arabs, Christians and Muslim that you are unable to think straight.  For you, murdering thousands of women and children with F16s or artillery barrages is less an act of terrorism than a resistance fighter stabbing an occupation soldier. You are sick in the head.

*Edward Herman* and *Gerry O'Sullivan*
Excerpt from *The "Terrorism" Industry*
Pantheon Books, 1989






THE TERRORISM INDUSTRY: Edward S. Herman: 9780394580807: Amazon.com: Books

And the table above does not even include the last two murderous massacres of thousands of Palestinian civilians by the Israelis in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

PMW SPECIAL REPORT





PMW letter to Danish Minister of Foreign Affairs: Fatah promotes terror - PMW Bulletins

Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) calls on Danish Minister for Foreign Affairs to reassess Denmark's relationship to Fatah due to Fatah's ongoing terror support

Responding to Palestinian Media Watch documentation, Danish Minister for Foreign Affairs Kristian Jensen admitted he "opposes" a Fatah official's terror glorification. However, the minister continues to view Fatah as "moderate" because the official, he believes, did not speak "on behalf of Fatah, the PLO, the Palestinian Authority or the Palestinian government." [Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jan. 22, 2016]

This PMW report corrects the Danish minister's mistake. It documents that numerous senior Fatah leaders, Abbas' advisors, Mahmoud Abbas himself, the Fatah Central Committee headed by Mahmoud Abbas, and official Fatah media are all actively supporting and glorifying the current terror. Neither Fatah, nor any of its leaders, have condemned even one murder of an Israeli during the last 5 months of terror. To the contrary, they have glorified the terror and the terrorists.




It's unconscionable that the West continues to shower Islamic retrogrsdes with welfare dollars when these retrogrades openly announce their promotion of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## montelatici

You are a hoot.  Now you are quoting the Hasbara propaganda site par excellence, Palestine Media Watch and passing it off as factual.  This is embarrassing. 

Should we start posting links to Electronic Intifada in response? Grow up.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> You are a hoot.  Now you are quoting the Hasbara propaganda site par excellence, Palestine Media Watch and passing it off as factual.  This is embarrassing.
> 
> Should we start posting links to Electronic Intifada in response? Grow up.



What a hoot. It seems you're just embarrassed that your islamic terrorist heroes are called out for being the retrogrades they are.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Oh. give me a break!!!!!



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Most counterterrorist information is not in the public domain; but in protected or classified channels for law enforcement purposes only.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is not a single country in Europe that has not, at one time or another, been struck by Hostile Arab Palestinians.  In recent times the  Salafi Mujahideen _(jihadist outfits in various countries)_ and the Radicalized Islamist _(hostility oriented mixing of Islam and politics)_ have become acutely aware of the danger posed by these unrestrained Islamic elements that are caught in an endless cycle of violence.
> 
> Much of what is learned about the foundation of Radicalized and Hostility comes from what the leadership of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) tells us about itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader: No peace under Israeli occupation][/SIZE]
> "When Israel practically commits itself to withdraw from Gaza completely and the West Bank without any settlements, and if we have Jerusalem as our capital and the return of the refugees is there, then we will reach peace," Meshaal said through a translator in an exclusive interview with Charlie Rose, which will appear in full on PBS.
> 
> He compared the Hamas-Israel conflict to the American Revolution.
> 
> "Was it peaceful? Did you not kick the British out? So the nations, if they have the peaceful window to reach peace then they will better. Because we don't like to kill our sons and daughters. But if you don't have the peace then the resistance is legitimate. So the world has two choices: they need to help us peacefully reach [statehood] or we will expel this occupation from our land."
> 
> Meshaal expressed his frustration with how the international community was responding to the conflict.
> 
> "Why do you call for security for Israel and why don't you call for lifting the siege and stopping the occupation on the Palestinians? Why don't you give the right to live for the Palestinians as the other nations? This is actually the last occupation in the world," said Meshaal.
> 
> *SOURCE:* By JEAN SONG CBS NEWS 28 July 2014
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As several generations before him, Khaled Meshaal, tries to paint the picture that there is a similarity between the American Revolution and the Arab Palestinian attempt to undermine the UN Recommendations that led Israel to declare Independence.  It is an unsophisticated ploy to draw sympathy for the adoption of the argument that the less leadership of a lesser developed people should have control over one of the most productive and developed countries in the world.
> 
> Open Source material, such as news accounts, are often used as part of complex investigations.  There is nothing new in this.
> 
> You are not going to sit there and tell us that the HoAP did not ambush the old and infirm, kidnap and murder the unarmed and defenseless, hijack airliners, were involved in piracy, or participated in suicide bombings.  You are not going to tell us that HAMAS and FATAH have never celebrated a Palestinians terrorist attack .  ----  Come on!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are such a partisan racist Rocco. What's wrong with you. Experts on terrorism have studied the subject and Israel has killed far more of the infirm, women and children than the Palestinians will ever kill. You are so blinded by your hate of Arabs, Christians and Muslim that you are unable to think straight.  For you, murdering thousands of women and children with F16s or artillery barrages is less an act of terrorism than a resistance fighter stabbing an occupation soldier. You are sick in the head.
> 
> *Edward Herman* and *Gerry O'Sullivan*
> Excerpt from *The "Terrorism" Industry*
> Pantheon Books, 1989
> 
> View attachment 69388
> 
> THE TERRORISM INDUSTRY: Edward S. Herman: 9780394580807: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> And the table above does not even include the last two murderous massacres of thousands of Palestinian civilians by the Israelis in Gaza.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Hell, I can go to the Global Terrorism Database, type in one Palestinian Terrorist organizational Name and draw-up over 400 events (20 pages) of attacks. 

*SEARCH RESULTS: 410 INCIDENTS*
*Search Terms: (Islamic Resistance Movement HAMAS)*​


​
This is not including the attacks made by:

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)
PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
In any conflict of a duration of a Century or more, the concepts of humanity will change over time.  But there is very little question that the attacks made by the emergent Palestinian terrorist have become more and more blood thirsty since the Independence of Israel (more than half century ago).

Yes, --- NO QUESTION, if you dig may have made some poor decisions --- but in the last Quarter Century, by comparison, Israel has been the straight arrow.



montelatici said:


> "For you, murdering thousands of women and children with F16s or artillery barrages is less an act of terrorism than a resistance fighter stabbing an occupation soldier. You are sick in the head."


*(COMMENT)*

I neither said that, nor implied that.  What I implied was that the Palestinian Terrorist Organizations have a history and pattern of behavior where by putting their own people in harm's way (violating the Rules of Customary and IHL), they blame the outcome on their initiated hostile activity on the Israelis.  That is a sad commentary on the Arab-Palestinians as a culture and a people.

Don't pretend, after trying to justify the use of "any and all means," they have one once of enlightenment and dignity between them.  Any culture and way of life that glorifies suicide bombers, hijackers pirates, kidnappers and murders as a theme and policy for three-quarters of a century, better relook at themselves; morally, ethically and intellectually.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

I am embarrassed that anyone would actually post material from one of the most fanatical Zionist propaganda sites in an attempt to make a point. You don't even realize how counterproductive it is.  Your friends that try to make serious contributions are certainly embarrassed, as it reinforces the fact that  the pro-Zionist side has only propaganda and few facts to support their position.  At least don't provide a link to the Hasbara site, take a cue from your buddy Boston who does not provide sources to the Hasbara material he posts.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Oh. give me a break!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Most counterterrorist information is not in the public domain; but in protected or classified channels for law enforcement purposes only.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is not a single country in Europe that has not, at one time or another, been struck by Hostile Arab Palestinians.  In recent times the  Salafi Mujahideen _(jihadist outfits in various countries)_ and the Radicalized Islamist _(hostility oriented mixing of Islam and politics)_ have become acutely aware of the danger posed by these unrestrained Islamic elements that are caught in an endless cycle of violence.
> 
> Much of what is learned about the foundation of Radicalized and Hostility comes from what the leadership of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) tells us about itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader: No peace under Israeli occupation][/SIZE]
> "When Israel practically commits itself to withdraw from Gaza completely and the West Bank without any settlements, and if we have Jerusalem as our capital and the return of the refugees is there, then we will reach peace," Meshaal said through a translator in an exclusive interview with Charlie Rose, which will appear in full on PBS.
> 
> He compared the Hamas-Israel conflict to the American Revolution.
> 
> "Was it peaceful? Did you not kick the British out? So the nations, if they have the peaceful window to reach peace then they will better. Because we don't like to kill our sons and daughters. But if you don't have the peace then the resistance is legitimate. So the world has two choices: they need to help us peacefully reach [statehood] or we will expel this occupation from our land."
> 
> Meshaal expressed his frustration with how the international community was responding to the conflict.
> 
> "Why do you call for security for Israel and why don't you call for lifting the siege and stopping the occupation on the Palestinians? Why don't you give the right to live for the Palestinians as the other nations? This is actually the last occupation in the world," said Meshaal.
> 
> *SOURCE:* By JEAN SONG CBS NEWS 28 July 2014
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As several generations before him, Khaled Meshaal, tries to paint the picture that there is a similarity between the American Revolution and the Arab Palestinian attempt to undermine the UN Recommendations that led Israel to declare Independence.  It is an unsophisticated ploy to draw sympathy for the adoption of the argument that the less leadership of a lesser developed people should have control over one of the most productive and developed countries in the world.
> 
> Open Source material, such as news accounts, are often used as part of complex investigations.  There is nothing new in this.
> 
> You are not going to sit there and tell us that the HoAP did not ambush the old and infirm, kidnap and murder the unarmed and defenseless, hijack airliners, were involved in piracy, or participated in suicide bombings.  You are not going to tell us that HAMAS and FATAH have never celebrated a Palestinians terrorist attack .  ----  Come on!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are such a partisan racist Rocco. What's wrong with you. Experts on terrorism have studied the subject and Israel has killed far more of the infirm, women and children than the Palestinians will ever kill. You are so blinded by your hate of Arabs, Christians and Muslim that you are unable to think straight.  For you, murdering thousands of women and children with F16s or artillery barrages is less an act of terrorism than a resistance fighter stabbing an occupation soldier. You are sick in the head.
> 
> *Edward Herman* and *Gerry O'Sullivan*
> Excerpt from *The "Terrorism" Industry*
> Pantheon Books, 1989
> 
> View attachment 69388
> 
> THE TERRORISM INDUSTRY: Edward S. Herman: 9780394580807: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> And the table above does not even include the last two murderous massacres of thousands of Palestinian civilians by the Israelis in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hell, I can go to the Global Terrorism Database, type in one Palestinian Terrorist organizational Name and draw-up over 400 events (20 pages) of attacks.
> 
> *SEARCH RESULTS: 410 INCIDENTS*
> *Search Terms: (Islamic Resistance Movement HAMAS)*​
> View attachment 69401​
> This is not including the attacks made by:
> 
> Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)
> PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
> In any conflict of a duration of a Century or more, the concepts of humanity will change over time.  But there is very little question that the attacks made by the emergent Palestinian terrorist have become more and more blood thirsty since the Independence of Israel (more than half century ago).
> 
> Yes, --- NO QUESTION, if you dig may have made some poor decisions --- but in the last Quarter Century, by comparison, Israel has been the straight arrow.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "For you, murdering thousands of women and children with F16s or artillery barrages is less an act of terrorism than a resistance fighter stabbing an occupation soldier. You are sick in the head."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I neither said that, nor implied that.  What I implied was that the Palestinian Terrorist Organizations have a history and pattern of behavior where by putting their own people in harm's way (violating the Rules of Customary and IHL), they blame the outcome on their initiated hostile activity on the Israelis.  That is a sad commentary on the Arab-Palestinians as a culture and a people.
> 
> Don't pretend, after trying to justify the use of "any and all means," they have one once of enlightenment and dignity between them.  Any culture and way of life that glorifies suicide bombers, hijackers pirates, kidnappers and murders as a theme and policy for three-quarters of a century, better relook at themselves; morally, ethically and intellectually.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> I am embarrassed that anyone would actually post material from one of the most fanatical Zionist propaganda sites in an attempt to make a point. You don't even realize how counterproductive it is.  Your friends that try to make serious contributions are certainly embarrassed, as it reinforces the fact that  the pro-Zionist side has only propaganda and few facts to support their position.  At least don't provide a link to the Hasbara site, take a cue from your buddy Boston who does not provide sources to the Hasbara material he posts.


Your embarrassment is, as usual, self inflicted.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Most counterterrorist information is not in the public domain; but in protected or classified channels for law enforcement purposes only.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is not a single country in Europe that has not, at one time or another, been struck by Hostile Arab Palestinians.  In recent times the  Salafi Mujahideen _(jihadist outfits in various countries)_ and the Radicalized Islamist _(hostility oriented mixing of Islam and politics)_ have become acutely aware of the danger posed by these unrestrained Islamic elements that are caught in an endless cycle of violence.
> 
> Much of what is learned about the foundation of Radicalized and Hostility comes from what the leadership of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) tells us about itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader: No peace under Israeli occupation][/SIZE]
> "When Israel practically commits itself to withdraw from Gaza completely and the West Bank without any settlements, and if we have Jerusalem as our capital and the return of the refugees is there, then we will reach peace," Meshaal said through a translator in an exclusive interview with Charlie Rose, which will appear in full on PBS.
> 
> He compared the Hamas-Israel conflict to the American Revolution.
> 
> "Was it peaceful? Did you not kick the British out? So the nations, if they have the peaceful window to reach peace then they will better. Because we don't like to kill our sons and daughters. But if you don't have the peace then the resistance is legitimate. So the world has two choices: they need to help us peacefully reach [statehood] or we will expel this occupation from our land."
> 
> Meshaal expressed his frustration with how the international community was responding to the conflict.
> 
> "Why do you call for security for Israel and why don't you call for lifting the siege and stopping the occupation on the Palestinians? Why don't you give the right to live for the Palestinians as the other nations? This is actually the last occupation in the world," said Meshaal.
> 
> *SOURCE:* By JEAN SONG CBS NEWS 28 July 2014
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As several generations before him, Khaled Meshaal, tries to paint the picture that there is a similarity between the American Revolution and the Arab Palestinian attempt to undermine the UN Recommendations that led Israel to declare Independence.  It is an unsophisticated ploy to draw sympathy for the adoption of the argument that the less leadership of a lesser developed people should have control over one of the most productive and developed countries in the world.
> 
> Open Source material, such as news accounts, are often used as part of complex investigations.  There is nothing new in this.
> 
> You are not going to sit there and tell us that the HoAP did not ambush the old and infirm, kidnap and murder the unarmed and defenseless, hijack airliners, were involved in piracy, or participated in suicide bombings.  You are not going to tell us that HAMAS and FATAH have never celebrated a Palestinians terrorist attack .  ----  Come on!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are such a partisan racist Rocco. What's wrong with you. Experts on terrorism have studied the subject and Israel has killed far more of the infirm, women and children than the Palestinians will ever kill. You are so blinded by your hate of Arabs, Christians and Muslim that you are unable to think straight.  For you, murdering thousands of women and children with F16s or artillery barrages is less an act of terrorism than a resistance fighter stabbing an occupation soldier. You are sick in the head.
> 
> *Edward Herman* and *Gerry O'Sullivan*
> Excerpt from *The "Terrorism" Industry*
> Pantheon Books, 1989
> 
> View attachment 69388
> 
> THE TERRORISM INDUSTRY: Edward S. Herman: 9780394580807: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> And the table above does not even include the last two murderous massacres of thousands of Palestinian civilians by the Israelis in Gaza.
Click to expand...







 Not really experts are they freddy, more like islamonazi propaganda liars like you


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> You are a hoot.  Now you are quoting the Hasbara propaganda site par excellence, Palestine Media Watch and passing it off as factual.  This is embarrassing.
> 
> Should we start posting links to Electronic Intifada in response? Grow up.








 About time you did as your constant use of one term shows that you don't have a leg to stand on.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

I think you might be confused...



montelatici said:


> I am embarrassed that anyone would actually post material from one of the most fanatical Zionist propaganda sites in an attempt to make a point. You don't even realize how counterproductive it is.  Your friends that try to make serious contributions are certainly embarrassed, as it reinforces the fact that  the pro-Zionist side has only propaganda and few facts to support their position.  At least don't provide a link to the Hasbara site, take a cue from your buddy Boston who does not provide sources to the Hasbara material he posts.


*(COMMENT)*

The National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) is the national leader in cutting-edge research on the behavior of terrorists, terrorist organizations,and communities threatened by terrorism. START maintains the Global Terrorism Database(GTD), the world’s largest and most comprehensive open-source database on international and domestic terrorism events.  It is a resource made possible (22 USC § 2656f) through the assocaitation with UofM and collaboration of:

Department of Homeland Security
Department of State, Bureau of Counterterrorism 
Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism
National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism
National Counterterrorism Center, Office of the Director of National Intelligence,
Worldwide Incidents Tracking System (WITS).
The releasable 2015 Codebook (GTD staff - CODEBOOK: INCLUSION CRITERIA AND VARIABLES ) is available.

I have no Idea where you get your information from.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

I am not sure what all that nonsense has to do with the fact that Israelis have killed thousands of Palestinian women and children while Palestinians have killed, at most, dozens of Israeli women and children.

Try to stick to the Israel/Palestine issue.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> I am not sure what all that nonsense has to do with the fact that Israelis have killed thousands of Palestinian women and children while Palestinians have killed, at most, dozens of Israeli women and children.
> 
> Try to stick to the Israel/Palestine issue.


Islamic terrorism carries consequences. When your heroes in the Islamic terrorist Death Cult wage war by explicitly putting women and children in harms way, the results are predictable. 

You're flailing your Pom Poms for the losing side of humanity.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Well, that is just nonsense.



montelatici said:


> I am not sure what all that nonsense has to do with the fact that Israelis have killed thousands of Palestinian women and children while Palestinians have killed, at most, dozens of Israeli women and children.
> 
> Try to stick to the Israel/Palestine issue.


*(COMMENT)*

In the world of evaluating the effectiveness of safety, security countermeasures and protection, the number of casualties suffered is not part of the first tier criteria.  The variables that throw that argument off are;

The Palestinians put more citizens in harm's way than the Israelis.
The countermeasures and counterstrikes of the Israelis are better than the execution and success of Palestinian attacks.
Total reported casualties from terrorist attacks 1948-2016 (including attacks not listed in the Chronology) are 3,549 killed and 14,227 injured (these figures include terrorists). Casualties in these terrorist attacks include at least 222 children killed and 239 injured (these figures are incomplete). So far the 2001-2006 wave of terrorism in Israel is the worst period to date.



 Data base on the material from *Wm. Robert Johnston
Ph.D. (Physics), M.S. (Physics), B.A. (Astronomy)*​
•  Israel:  The threat exposure is based on the potential that is faced with the number of attacks that occur as a result of Hostile Arab Palestinian activity.  And the relative randomness of indiscriminate fire into civilian locations; as well as the protection afforded from hostile fire and the reaction time.

•  Palestine:  The threat is based on the probability of a counterstrike in which the Hostile Arab Palestinians have left behind the numbers of civilian noncombatants and the density of the Rule 23/24 prohibition in proximity to the valid target.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> I am not sure what all that nonsense has to do with the fact that Israelis have killed thousands of Palestinian women and children while Palestinians have killed, at most, dozens of Israeli women and children.
> 
> Try to stick to the Israel/Palestine issue.








 Shown up again as a propagandist and just cant stand being ridiculed. The Palestinians have killed their own by using them as human shields, and now the press is on to them and telling the world how vile they are


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
> Related: WORLD
> *EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
> BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT
> 
> EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list
> 
> EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dumbshit wrote this report?
> 
> Hamas has fought several wars with Israel since seizing power from Fatah in Gaza in 2007.​
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office.
> 
> So what does this clown mean by seizing power?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was likely just referring to politics as usual in the land of the Islamist retrograde. Political power is so often the result of the islamo-tribe with the largest caliber of weapon slaughtering the opposing tribe.
> 
> There were reports that the retrogrades in Hamas used torture and summary executions in the war with the Fatah knuckle draggers. More than 600 islamo's died rather brutal deaths at the hand of their fellow islamo's.
> 
> Allahu certainly is Akbar.
Click to expand...

He was likely just referring to politics as usual​
Indeed, misinformation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.
> 
> _*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
> The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
> *SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
> _Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.
> 
> Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).
> 
> Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> •   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> •   Prevent such conduct;
> •   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:
> 
> •  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
> •  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
> •  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
> •  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
> •  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
> •  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
> Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
> Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.
> 
> It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cant you read the list that details the criteria needed to be put on it, it is there for all to see. Start with the many definitions of what constitutes terrorism,
Click to expand...

That wasn't my question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*LINDA SARSOUR*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
> Related: WORLD
> *EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
> BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT
> 
> EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list
> 
> EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dumbshit wrote this report?
> 
> Hamas has fought several wars with Israel since seizing power from Fatah in Gaza in 2007.​
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office.
> 
> So what does this clown mean by seizing power?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what the world saw when hamas ran amok in gaza and started killing anyone suspected of having ties to fatah. They mass murdered children by throwing them from buildings or spraying them with bullets. This caused a backlash in the west bank that resulted in another bloodbath which now has the Palestinians virtually stateless again and no proper government. And it is all the fault of the Palestinian terrorists.
Click to expand...

How does this mindless rant relate to my post?


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.



You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population. 

Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
Click to expand...


You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.

_"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_

_-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
Click to expand...


As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to. 

Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.


----------



## Shusha

Thank you for completely ignoring my actual post about the difference between terror and defensive actions which are currently legal.  But ... addressing your comments...



montelatici said:


> What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?



What would I have Palestinians do?  First, I would have them recognize that ALL peoples (yes, including the Jewish people) have a right to live free from foreign rule and to have national self-determination.  Then I would suggest that all terrorism cease -- no more rockets, no more stabbing people in the streets, no more running over moms and babies at bus stops, no more suicide/homicide bombs, no more kidnapping, no more tunnels.  It all stops.  Then I would suggest the Palestinians invest their time, money, energy, resources and intelligence into creating a viable infrastructure for their nation.  Then they should negotiate a mutually beneficial peace and resource management and trade agreement with Israel, Jordan and Egypt.  After that, they should apply for full membership into the UN.  That would be the practical and civilized thing to do. 

What do YOU think the Palestinians should do?  Continue to commit small, ultimately useless terror attacks on the State of Israel in the hopes that one day this will lead to Israel giving Palestinians some sort of magical Judenrein kingdom from the river to the sea that the Palestinians still don't have to be actually responsible for?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to.
> 
> Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to.
> 
> Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Absent your typical cutting and pasting of spam that you litter thread after thread with, such are the musings of the vacant minded.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> Thank you for completely ignoring my actual post about the difference between terror and defensive actions which are currently legal.  But ... addressing your comments...
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would I have Palestinians do?  First, I would have them recognize that ALL peoples (yes, including the Jewish people) have a right to live free from foreign rule and to have national self-determination.  Then I would suggest that all terrorism cease -- no more rockets, no more stabbing people in the streets, no more running over moms and babies at bus stops, no more suicide/homicide bombs, no more kidnapping, no more tunnels.  It all stops.  Then I would suggest the Palestinians invest their time, money, energy, resources and intelligence into creating a viable infrastructure for their nation.  Then they should negotiate a mutually beneficial peace and resource management and trade agreement with Israel, Jordan and Egypt.  After that, they should apply for full membership into the UN.  That would be the practical and civilized thing to do.
> 
> What do YOU think the Palestinians should do?  Continue to commit small, ultimately useless terror attacks on the State of Israel in the hopes that one day this will lead to Israel giving Palestinians some sort of magical Judenrein kingdom from the river to the sea that the Palestinians still don't have to be actually responsible for?
Click to expand...


You really want to know what I think.  I think the Jews will never allow the creation of a sovereign state ruled by non-Jews in Eretz Israel, as stated by the Likud Charter.  So, the Palestinians have two peaceful, relatively good options that would result in not being ruled by the Israeli Jews or living in a Jewish state indefinitely.

1. Negotiate reparations for each Palestinian (man, woman and child), those in the occupied territories, those in refugee camps and for Israeli Arabs combined with firm offers from countries around the world that include immediate citizenship and a suitable residence in those countries.  I am talking about a monthly stipend of 500 USD monthly for each man, woman and child for say 10 years. That should result in an acceptable lifestyle in most countries, particularly for families, and provide time for integration into the economy of the new country.  There is a huge Palestinian diaspora that could facilitate the operation.  

Assuming 10 million Palestinians take the deal, it would cost donors 60 billion USD per year.  The U.S. could stop paying Israel, Egypt and Jordan the 10 billion or so yearly in military aid and contribute it to the fund plus what it pays to the Palestinians already and bump it to 15 billion.  The EU can afford to cover the same amount at least.  The wealthy Gulf States and Saudi Arabia can afford at least as much.  The other 15 billion could easily be covered by Japan, China and the rest of the world.  

The departure of all the Muslims and Christians now under Jewish Israeli rule would insure that Israel could remain a Jewish state indefinitely.  Non-Jews don't want to live in a state that proclaims itself a state for Jews and Israeli Jews don't want to live in a secular state for all religions, that's why they went to Israel. 

2. Stop resisting and accept occupation for 2-3  generations when demographics will make it impossible for Israeli Jews to continue to maintain absolute rule over what will become a heavily majority non-Jewish population in the lands now ruled/controlled by Israel. 

Of course, this latter option is not a good option for the Jews.  But, I can't think of another "god" option for the Palestinians given the fact that the Israelis will not permit the establishment of a sovereign non-Jewish state in Eretz Israel.

Conversely, the bad option for the non-Jews is a decision by the Jews to forcibly expel the non-Jews or otherwise eliminate them.  As the Israeli Jews turn further and further to the right this option is no longer unthinkable.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to.
> 
> Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absent your typical cutting and pasting of spam that you litter thread after thread with, such are the musings of the vacant minded.
Click to expand...


You are posting nonsense, don't interrupt the grownups.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to.
> 
> Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absent your typical cutting and pasting of spam that you litter thread after thread with, such are the musings of the vacant minded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are posting nonsense, don't interrupt the grownups.
Click to expand...

The "swaggering teenager" thing is an embarrassment. 

You can't separate the actions of the Islamic terrorist Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories from the worldwide plague of Islamist terrorism girdling the globe. It's precisely the same ideology.


----------



## montelatici

A national liberation movement made up of Muslims and Christians contrasting a foreign occupation has little to do with Islamic terrorism. Grow up.  

Listen to this Christian Palestinian.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> A national liberation movement made up of Muslims and Christians contrasting a foreign occupation has little to do with Islamic terrorism. Grow up.
> 
> Listen to this Christian Palestinian.



The arabs-moslems occupying the disputed territories have nearly purged all Christians from the territories.

You were clueless about that until now.


----------



## montelatici

No, the Christians have left as a result of being expelled by the Jews in 1947-1948 and as a result of the occupation.  This Christian Palestinian tells it like it was.


----------



## montelatici

You see, Holly, you just babble nonsense.  I have the facts, and links to those facts. Give it up.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici 

Wow.  I'm actually surprised.  So your solution to the conflict is to give each Palestinian 60,000 USD and forcibly displace them to other countries?  Or to feign submission to foreign rule until the Jewish people can be overtaken by demographics?

You have no interest in pursuing some sort of self-determination in a two (four) state solution?


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici
> 
> Wow.  I'm actually surprised.  So your solution to the conflict is to give each Palestinian 60,000 USD and forcibly displace them to other countries?  Or to feign submission to foreign rule until the Jewish people can be overtaken by demographics?
> 
> You have no interest in pursuing some sort of self-determination in a two (four) state solution?



A sovereign non-Jewish state in Eretz Israel is not acceptable to the Israelis.  It would not be a forced displacement, it would be an offer that the Palestinians would probably accept.  The yearly stipend I proposed is 6K not 60K per annum.

The second option is what the Palestinians are left with if the first is not viable financially.  

Self determination for the Palestinians is, unfortunately, a non-starter.   Some people get screwed, it's the way of the world.  All you can do is soften the blow to avoid retaliatory violence from those screwed.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I'm not even sure that I consider her a real Arab-Palestinian; although she was an Arab-Palestinian Terrorist.  She was actually born and raised in Lebanon; become first a Lebanese Militant then recruited and transplanted into the Palestine Liberation Organization _(and the Fatah)_.  There is no question that Dalal Mughrabi was a psychopath.   If it wasn't obvious before, it was certainly obvious when she shot and killed the (unarmed) American Nature Photographer Gail Rubin_ (Back in the 1970' it was the Palestinian way to attack soft targets and kill women and children)_.  Such heroic actions can be rewarded with the gold medal (attached to a red, green and white ribbon) the Arab-Palestinian Medal of Honor for Martyrdom.
> 
> _*Quote/Paraphrased:*_
> The motivations and characteristics of females within the terrorist organization are slightly different.   Galvin suggests that women, being more idealistic than men, may be more easily compelled to perpetrate terrorist activities for vengeance _(for the death or injury to a loved one - not so different from "vendetta" by unremorsefully lethal and ruthless)_.  Galvin also argues that the female terrorist enters into terrorism with different motivations and expectations than the male terrorist. In contrast to men, who Galvin characterizes as being enticed into terrorism by the promise of “power and glory,” females embark on terrorism “attracted by promises of a better life for their children and the desire to meet people’s needs that are not being met by an intractable establishment.”
> *SOURCEs: * Galvin, Deborah M. “The Female Terrorist: A Socio-Psychological Perspective,” Behavioral Science and the Law, 1, 1983, 19–32.
> _Library of Congress – Federal Research Division *The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism*_​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts terror-honoring event - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian Red Crescent hosts Fatah ceremony honoring terrorists who killed 37 civilians,
> including 12 children
> 
> - Ceremony honored leader of most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history - Dalal Mughrabi - as “Bride of Palestine”
> 
> - PA official, Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam “expressed great pride in Martyr Dalal... and said that the title Sisters of Dalal is an honor to all Palestinian women”
> 
> - Abbas’ advisor Sultan Abu Al-Einein said the attackers “wanted the operation to unite the brothers and friends of all Arab countries, and wished to convey the message that Palestine is the cause of all Arabs*”*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP), much of what the Arab-Palestinian is, itself wrapped-up in the way they honor their (terrorist) Martyrdom; and in the way they recognize, without shame,  how terrorists may feel that their personal honor depends on the degree of violence that they carry out against the enemy.
> 
> Neither the UN, the Arab League, or the European Union are going to condemn or comment the fact that the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or *glorification* (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts, are condemned (UN Security Council Resolution 1624).
> 
> Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> •   Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> •   Prevent such conduct;
> •   Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), calls upon Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:
> 
> •  Criminalize the financing of terrorism
> •  Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
> •  Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
> •  Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
> •  Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
> •  Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
> Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.​
> Since the time the UN passed the Resolution (A/RES/2/110) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war, that all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression were condemned.
> 
> It is just an open affront to the international community, that they Hostile Arab Palestinians can promote Hostile Measures and carry-out any Heinous Act, and honor their sociopathic murdered without fear of a repercussion.  It is further evidence of their moral and values system and a clash between cultures.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cant you read the list that details the criteria needed to be put on it, it is there for all to see. Start with the many definitions of what constitutes terrorism,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't my question.
Click to expand...









 Yes it was as shown here

 BTW, you have never specified what criteria was used to place Hamas on the terrorist list.


 Why do you LIE so much when you are caught out ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *LINDA SARSOUR*
> 
> **









 And what does this have to do with who are the Palestinians. It is common practise to bring in outside experts to train people on new methods of policing.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> You can't demand something that is not in the Public Domain.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general criteria used in Central Europe is:
> 
> *SUMMARY*
> The extraordinary European Council of 21 September 2001 defined terrorism as one of the main challenges facing the world and identified the fight against terrorism as one of the European Union’s (EU) priority objectives. The purpose of this common position is to apply further measures to combat terrorism, in addition to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001). Specifically, it establishes a list of individuals, groups and entities involved in terrorism whose funds and other financial assets are to be frozen as part of the fight against the financing of terrorism.
> 
> Definitions
> 
> "Persons, groups and entities involved in terrorist acts" means individuals, groups and entities on whom there is accurate information proving that they have committed, are attempting to commit or are facilitating the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> "Terrorist acts" are defined as intentional acts that may seriously damage a country or an international organisation by intimidating a population, exerting undue compulsion of various types or by destabilising or destroying its fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures. The list of terrorist acts includes:
> 
> attacks on a person’s life or physical integrity;
> kidnapping or hostage-taking;
> causing extensive destruction to a public or private facility, including information systems;
> seizure of means of public transport, such as aircrafts and ships;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport or use of weapons, explosives, or nuclear, biological or chemical weapons;
> release of dangerous substances or causing fires, explosions or floods;
> interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource;
> directing or participating in the activities of a terrorist group, including by funding its activities or supplying material resources.
> *Merely threatening to commit any of these criminal acts is also to be treated as a terrorist offence.*
> 
> The common position also defines "terrorist groups" as structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts, regardless of their composition or the level of development of their structure.
> 
> List of individuals and entities concerned
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries. It must be revised at least every six months, so as to keep it up to date. The list comprises revolutionary activist groups, as well as the names of individuals belonging to such groups, including:
> 
> CIRA (Continuity Irish Republican Army);
> E.T.A (Basque Fatherland and Liberty);
> G.R.A.P.O (the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group);
> *Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);*
> *SPECIAL INSERT for P F TINMORE:  HAMAS POLICY *
> With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, it must be clear that this does not imply that Palestine needs only Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad – as national Islamic Palestinian powers – are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction and firm position on the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements: Islamists, nationalists, liberals and leftists. This is our nation, we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain an issue for the whole nation.
> 
> *Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel’s Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide — And The Interests Of Its Allies, Headed By The U.S.*
> ByPAMELA GELLER on July 19, 2013
> 
> 
> "The Palestinian resistance is entitled to expand and diversify its means and tools of resistance;
> this is a legitimate resistance that defends a defenseless people that has fallen under an oppressive occupation which is supported by the global forces of evil. No one has the right to condemn the
> resistance for any of the methods that it adopts, because it knows better than everyone else what is good for it and for its noble objectives.​*PRESS RELEASE 3330th Council meeting Foreign Affairs Brussels, 22 July 2014*
> 
> The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts. The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence. All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm. The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.​Jihad and armed resistance is the correct and authentic means for the liberation of Palestine and the restoration of all rights. This battle must, of course, be accompanied by all forms of political, diplomatic, media, national and legal resistance, as well as the investment of the entire nation’s energies and the summoning of all the various strengths we possess.​
> LVF (Loyalist Volunteer Force)
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> I thought I would give you an assortment of bullets that you might find interesting.  However, the vast majority of Multinational Counterterrorism materials, actions and assets directed against self-identified Jihadist and Islamist is not yet in Open Source Material.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The list annexed to the common position is drawn up on the basis of investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries.​
> The court in the EU took Hamas off the terrorist list because their "investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities" were taken from news reports.
> 
> I can speculate that the investigation in the US was not that stringent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> World| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:29am EST
> Related: WORLD
> *EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list*
> BRUSSELS | BY ADRIAN CROFT
> 
> EU to appeal ruling that Hamas should be off terror list
> 
> EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini noted in a statement that the General Court made its ruling on procedural grounds. As a result of the appeal, Hamas will remain on the EU's terrorism list and its assets will remain frozen pending a judgment by the Court of Justice, the highest legal authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dumbshit wrote this report?
> 
> Hamas has fought several wars with Israel since seizing power from Fatah in Gaza in 2007.​
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office.
> 
> So what does this clown mean by seizing power?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what the world saw when hamas ran amok in gaza and started killing anyone suspected of having ties to fatah. They mass murdered children by throwing them from buildings or spraying them with bullets. This caused a backlash in the west bank that resulted in another bloodbath which now has the Palestinians virtually stateless again and no proper government. And it is all the fault of the Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does this mindless rant relate to my post?
Click to expand...








 If you cant see why then it is time to get a new hobby, I hear shark baiting is all the rage amongst elderly American wasters who have nothing.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
Click to expand...





COWFLOP you don't have a clue as to what occupation means, and why it is being employed by Israel. You forget that under international law gaza is not occupied and so Israel can respond with force when the Palestinians fire illegal weapons into Israel. Time they started operation rolling thunder and did a two pronged attack meeting in the middle using standard munitions to take out every military target after warning the UN they intend to start bombing the next time an illegal weapon is fired and will stop when hamas surrenders


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh FFS.  You are comparing thousands of civilian deaths as a result of Israeli terrorism with dozens as a result of Palestinian "terrorism".  Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to.
> 
> Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...








 And once again a member of team islamomoron shows that they are immature and childish when they need to get the last word but cant find anything adult or intelligent to post.  The evidence of the islamonazi violence and mass murder is on nearly every page of the M.E. history books


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for completely ignoring my actual post about the difference between terror and defensive actions which are currently legal.  But ... addressing your comments...
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would I have Palestinians do?  First, I would have them recognize that ALL peoples (yes, including the Jewish people) have a right to live free from foreign rule and to have national self-determination.  Then I would suggest that all terrorism cease -- no more rockets, no more stabbing people in the streets, no more running over moms and babies at bus stops, no more suicide/homicide bombs, no more kidnapping, no more tunnels.  It all stops.  Then I would suggest the Palestinians invest their time, money, energy, resources and intelligence into creating a viable infrastructure for their nation.  Then they should negotiate a mutually beneficial peace and resource management and trade agreement with Israel, Jordan and Egypt.  After that, they should apply for full membership into the UN.  That would be the practical and civilized thing to do.
> 
> What do YOU think the Palestinians should do?  Continue to commit small, ultimately useless terror attacks on the State of Israel in the hopes that one day this will lead to Israel giving Palestinians some sort of magical Judenrein kingdom from the river to the sea that the Palestinians still don't have to be actually responsible for?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really want to know what I think.  I think the Jews will never allow the creation of a sovereign state ruled by non-Jews in Eretz Israel, as stated by the Likud Charter.  So, the Palestinians have two peaceful, relatively good options that would result in not being ruled by the Israeli Jews or living in a Jewish state indefinitely.
> 
> 1. Negotiate reparations for each Palestinian (man, woman and child), those in the occupied territories, those in refugee camps and for Israeli Arabs combined with firm offers from countries around the world that include immediate citizenship and a suitable residence in those countries.  I am talking about a monthly stipend of 500 USD monthly for each man, woman and child for say 10 years. That should result in an acceptable lifestyle in most countries, particularly for families, and provide time for integration into the economy of the new country.  There is a huge Palestinian diaspora that could facilitate the operation.
> 
> Assuming 10 million Palestinians take the deal, it would cost donors 60 billion USD per year.  The U.S. could stop paying Israel, Egypt and Jordan the 10 billion or so yearly in military aid and contribute it to the fund plus what it pays to the Palestinians already and bump it to 15 billion.  The EU can afford to cover the same amount at least.  The wealthy Gulf States and Saudi Arabia can afford at least as much.  The other 15 billion could easily be covered by Japan, China and the rest of the world.
> 
> The departure of all the Muslims and Christians now under Jewish Israeli rule would insure that Israel could remain a Jewish state indefinitely.  Non-Jews don't want to live in a state that proclaims itself a state for Jews and Israeli Jews don't want to live in a secular state for all religions, that's why they went to Israel.
> 
> 2. Stop resisting and accept occupation for 2-3  generations when demographics will make it impossible for Israeli Jews to continue to maintain absolute rule over what will become a heavily majority non-Jewish population in the lands now ruled/controlled by Israel.
> 
> Of course, this latter option is not a good option for the Jews.  But, I can't think of another "god" option for the Palestinians given the fact that the Israelis will not permit the establishment of a sovereign non-Jewish state in Eretz Israel.
> 
> Conversely, the bad option for the non-Jews is a decision by the Jews to forcibly expel the non-Jews or otherwise eliminate them.  As the Israeli Jews turn further and further to the right this option is no longer unthinkable.
Click to expand...







 As is delinetated by the UN in 242, that says it will be done by all parties. Then do the same for the over 1 million Jewish refugees and their families that were expelled from their lands by the Palestinians.   I would say $20 million for each Jew should just about cover it.
 By the way your 10 million Palestinians would be reduced to less than 5,000 if the letter of the law was strictly adhered to as the vast majority of Palestinians have never even seen Palestine.


 The demographics will never get to that point as you lump in Palestine to muddle the figures, the simple answer is for Israel to keep on as they are and let the UN take care of any attempt at all out war by the arab terrorists. If they don't then just bomb the Palestinians into the stone age.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici
> 
> Wow.  I'm actually surprised.  So your solution to the conflict is to give each Palestinian 60,000 USD and forcibly displace them to other countries?  Or to feign submission to foreign rule until the Jewish people can be overtaken by demographics?
> 
> You have no interest in pursuing some sort of self-determination in a two (four) state solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A sovereign non-Jewish state in Eretz Israel is not acceptable to the Israelis.  It would not be a forced displacement, it would be an offer that the Palestinians would probably accept.  The yearly stipend I proposed is 6K not 60K per annum.
> 
> The second option is what the Palestinians are left with if the first is not viable financially.
> 
> Self determination for the Palestinians is, unfortunately, a non-starter.   Some people get screwed, it's the way of the world.  All you can do is soften the blow to avoid retaliatory violence from those screwed.
Click to expand...







 And who would stump up this sum, bearing in mind that the original offer along these lines was turned down by the arab's as they would pay the largest amount being the most culpable. Nothing has changed since then to apportion moreblame on the Jews.

 The second option is a pipe dream of yours that would see your final solution restart and the mass murder of the Jews. A pity that the Jews are too strong for that to work anymore. And all you would see is the death of thousands of Palestinian militia needlessly


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing defensive actions to terrorism and using the criteria such as quantity of civilian deaths as the measuring stick while placing the entire blame of those civilian deaths on the particular attacker in each exchange with no regard to the need for and the desirablity of defense or securing safety for one's own civilian population.
> 
> Thus those who minimize their own civilian deaths are demonized while those encouraging or actively supporting their own civilian deaths are glorified.  And those who attempt to minimize the civilian deaths of the opponent are given the impossible task of reducing that to zero (especially difficult considering the above) or else be labelled evil or excessive while those actively attempting to maximize the opponent's civilian deaths are granted leisure to pursue such a course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and many others that blindly support Israel seem to ignore the fact that Israel has been occupying the land and ruling over the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine for over half a century.  Any other country that behaved as Israel behaves as an occupying power would have been under severe sanctions long ago. What would you have the Palestinians do, meekly submit to foreign rule?  It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with foreign conquest and colonization. Israel should be demonized as the Germans were demonized when they responded disproportionally to violence perpetrated by the people they ruled under occupation.
> 
> _"Had all of us in France meekly, lawfully carried out the orders of the German master, no Frenchman could have ever looked another man in the face. Such submission would have saved the lives of many -- some very dear to me -- but France would have lost its soul."_
> 
> _-- Commandant le Baron de Vomécourt_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you're clueless. The Arabs -Moslems occupying the disputed territories are unwilling to adhere to some pretty basic standards of law and order that the relevant first world holds to.
> 
> Retrogrades that hold to a standard of behavior delineated in a 1,400 year old hate and war manual represent a global plague on humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absent your typical cutting and pasting of spam that you litter thread after thread with, such are the musings of the vacant minded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are posting nonsense, don't interrupt the grownups.
Click to expand...








 You are the one doing that with your immature posts


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> A national liberation movement made up of Muslims and Christians contrasting a foreign occupation has little to do with Islamic terrorism. Grow up.
> 
> Listen to this Christian Palestinian.









 Just more islamonazi pallywood propaganda. Why wont this group tell the world about the genocide of the Christians in Palestine by the muslims. The population has been reduced by 90% and leaves very few Christians left, just as Daesh is doing to the north.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> No, the Christians have left as a result of being expelled by the Jews in 1947-1948 and as a result of the occupation.  This Christian Palestinian tells it like it was.









 And again just islamonazi pallywood propaganda to feed the gullible. The Bible is not a work of reference as this person claims, as it was written with the sole intention of disenfranchising the Jews of their heritage.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> You see, Holly, you just babble nonsense.  I have the facts, and links to those facts. Give it up.


Actually, you do nothing but mindlessly cut and paste.

How silly that anyone would suggest that the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories should receive more welfare to continue their existing welfare fraud.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> No, the Christians have left as a result of being expelled by the Jews in 1947-1948 and as a result of the occupation.  This Christian Palestinian tells it like it was.


Oh really.


----------



## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Christians have left as a result of being expelled by the Jews in 1947-1948 and as a result of the occupation.  This Christian Palestinian tells it like it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really.
Click to expand...








 The church has shown that since 2007 90% of the Christians from Palestine have been cleansed, forcibly converted or murdered by hamas and fatah because they are easier to deal with than the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A national liberation movement made up of Muslims and Christians contrasting a foreign occupation has little to do with Islamic terrorism. Grow up.
> 
> Listen to this Christian Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more islamonazi pallywood propaganda. Why wont this group tell the world about the genocide of the Christians in Palestine by the muslims. The population has been reduced by 90% and leaves very few Christians left, just as Daesh is doing to the north.
Click to expand...

You call a speech by a Christian to the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation islamonazi?


----------



## montelatici

Now a real Christian Palestinian priest, not Hasbarawood Productions:


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?




Persecution of non-islamists is typical in Islamist colonial projects.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Now a real Christian Palestinian priest, not Hasbarawood Productions:


This Priest is in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Persecution of non-islamists is typical in Islamist colonial projects.


Why is it that every report of Muslims attacking Christians is from someone connected to Israel.

Coincident that!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Persecution of non-islamists is typical in Islamist colonial projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that every report of Muslims attacking Christians is from someone connected to Israel.
> 
> Coincident that!
Click to expand...

What is a common theme among totalitarian Islamist fear societies? Suppression of free speech. 

What do you think would happen if a kuffar was to openly criticize the Islamic terrorists in Gaza? In so many Islamist hell holes, an islamo- mob will form and any offence to Islamist ideology can result in death for the kuffar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Voices from Palestine", a day long festival of Palestinian films


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> "Voices from Palestine", a day long festival of Palestinian films


In the meantime, the Islamic terrorists can eat a jdam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Persecution of non-islamists is typical in Islamist colonial projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that every report of Muslims attacking Christians is from someone connected to Israel.
> 
> Coincident that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is a common theme among totalitarian Islamist fear societies? Suppression of free speech.
> 
> What do you think would happen if a kuffar was to openly criticize the Islamic terrorists in Gaza? In so many Islamist hell holes, an islamo- mob will form and any offence to Islamist ideology can result in death for the kuffar.
Click to expand...

Two women talk about Gaza.

Start @ 10:25


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Maysoon Zayid*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?

The comedy runs deep.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Najla Said*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the 'Pal'istanian' Islamic terrorists?

*The Death Cult said*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Usamah Hamdan*

\


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?

A festival of child "martyrs".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> A festival of child "martyrs".


Israel kills children by the thousands and this asshole gets on TV to whine about* one.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?

It's a mental illness.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Whoare the Palestinians?

*Vivien Sansour *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Harazeen*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rima Najjar Kapitan*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A national liberation movement made up of Muslims and Christians contrasting a foreign occupation has little to do with Islamic terrorism. Grow up.
> 
> Listen to this Christian Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more islamonazi pallywood propaganda. Why wont this group tell the world about the genocide of the Christians in Palestine by the muslims. The population has been reduced by 90% and leaves very few Christians left, just as Daesh is doing to the north.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You call a speech by a Christian to the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation islamonazi?
Click to expand...






 No I call the video islamonazi propaganda, along with the person who brings it to the board in support of his claims


----------



## Penelope

aris2chat said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.
> 
> Jesus In The Talmud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jesus couldn't have studied the talmud if it was written after his birth
> Jesus was not an uncommon name of his time.  He taught the torah
> The references in the talmud are clearly not what art implied
> 
> thank you for posting the talmud quotes
Click to expand...


Sure Jesus heard the Talmud teachings, from the Pharisees. He call those the Teachings of the Elders. Remember the Babylon Talmud was wrote in Babylon and many scribes can back and wrote the Torah from it, that is in Ezra, who supposedly went back and forth from Babylon and Jerusalem. He really got down on the Hebrews for intermarriage, even the Priests were intermarrying with everyone.

Get this they sent their wife's and children away, to fend for themselves, shameful. Just like Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away. Apparently Hebrew men did not like Hebrew women!!

Anyhow the Babylon Talmud was wrote in Babylon long before the birth of Jesus. Remember now we have 400 years between the 1st and 2nd testament, unless one is a RC , we have Macc 1 and II so we only have around 100ish years between.

A lot can happen in a century.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Now a real Christian Palestinian priest, not Hasbarawood Productions:








 Again islamonazi propaganda


P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Persecution of non-islamists is typical in Islamist colonial projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that every report of Muslims attacking Christians is from someone connected to Israel.
> 
> Coincident that!
Click to expand...







 Why is it every report about how evil Israel is comes from an islamonazi source that twists the words around to show the wrong meaning,


----------



## Hollie

Who the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> "Voices from Palestine", a day long festival of Palestinian films









 Sponsored by terrorists-r-us and pallywood productions


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Persecution of non-islamists is typical in Islamist colonial projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that every report of Muslims attacking Christians is from someone connected to Israel.
> 
> Coincident that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is a common theme among totalitarian Islamist fear societies? Suppression of free speech.
> 
> What do you think would happen if a kuffar was to openly criticize the Islamic terrorists in Gaza? In so many Islamist hell holes, an islamo- mob will form and any offence to Islamist ideology can result in death for the kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two women talk about Gaza.
> 
> Start @ 10:25
Click to expand...







 Just more islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rima Najjar Kapitan*









 Islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art__Allm
> How can Jesus be mentioned in the Talmud when he himself studied the Talmud?  Have you ever thought that Phoenall is practicing the Golden Rule?  As for the Muslims, why not read how they believe that when Jesus returns he will break all the crosses and preach Islam.
> 
> According to muslims Jesus preached... - Apostates of Islam Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Talmud contains all kind of crap about Jesus and Mary. Jesus was torah learned not Talmud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that what they told you down at the Bund Hall?  I didn't know that you went to the Yeshiva with Jesus so that you knew what he studied.
> 
> Jesus In The Talmud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jesus couldn't have studied the talmud if it was written after his birth
> Jesus was not an uncommon name of his time.  He taught the torah
> The references in the talmud are clearly not what art implied
> 
> thank you for posting the talmud quotes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure Jesus heard the Talmud teachings, from the Pharisees. He call those the Teachings of the Elders. Remember the Babylon Talmud was wrote in Babylon and many scribes can back and wrote the Torah from it, that is in Ezra, who supposedly went back and forth from Babylon and Jerusalem. He really got down on the Hebrews for intermarriage, even the Priests were intermarrying with everyone.
> 
> Get this they sent their wife's and children away, to fend for themselves, shameful. Just like Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away. Apparently Hebrew men did not like Hebrew women!!
> 
> Anyhow the Babylon Talmud was wrote in Babylon long before the birth of Jesus. Remember now we have 400 years between the 1st and 2nd testament, unless one is a RC , we have Macc 1 and II so we only have around 100ish years between.
> 
> A lot can happen in a century.
Click to expand...








 And you were there to see that this took place were you. Or are you just repeating the islamonazi blood libel you are told every Friday afternoon.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>







 As expected just more islamonazi propaganda and lies


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


>


She had better watch out for the bulldozers. We don't need another pancake.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



The Palestinians and international organizations are building illegal structures in a closed military zone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians and international organizations are building illegal structures in a closed military zone.
Click to expand...

Why should the Palestinians have to get permits from foreign assholes?

And the question she asked. Who would destroy a kindergarten? That is lower than whale shit.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why should the Palestinians have to get permits from foreign assholes?
> 
> And the question she asked. Who would destroy a kindergarten? That is lower than whale shit.



Haha. Foreign assholes?  Funny given that the village itself was founded by people from Jordan, and they had been there only a handful of years before the war.

The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.  Why would people be exempt from the law because it is a kindergarten?  Is that how you can circumvent the law?  Just build an illegal kindergarten and then Israel will HAVE to let you stay?  And then you can build a bunch of houses around it and whamo!  cool new village that Israel can't touch.  

The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.  A zone where soldiers perform live fire exercises.  Its DANGEROUS.  Why would you let your children live in the middle of a military zone?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should the Palestinians have to get permits from foreign assholes?
> 
> And the question she asked. Who would destroy a kindergarten? That is lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Foreign assholes?  Funny given that the village itself was founded by people from Jordan, and they had been there only a handful of years before the war.
> 
> The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.  Why would people be exempt from the law because it is a kindergarten?  Is that how you can circumvent the law?  Just build an illegal kindergarten and then Israel will HAVE to let you stay?  And then you can build a bunch of houses around it and whamo!  cool new village that Israel can't touch.
> 
> The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.  A zone where soldiers perform live fire exercises.  Its DANGEROUS.  Why would you let your children live in the middle of a military zone?
Click to expand...

The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.

So, what foreign assholes called it a closed military zone?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what foreign assholes called it a closed military zone?



Um.  The ones with the guns who won the war defending themselves and their indigenous peoples against an enemy which announced it was going to massacre them and deny them self-determination on their ancestral lands.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what foreign assholes called it a closed military zone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  The ones with the guns who won the war defending themselves and their indigenous peoples against an enemy which announced it was going to massacre them and deny them self-determination on their ancestral lands.
Click to expand...

Israel just wants to steal that land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel just wants to steal that land.



But you think it is ALL stolen land and that Israel should have no land. How is the conflict going to be resolved as long as that is the Palestinian position?  It can't be.  It can never be resolved.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you think it is ALL stolen land and that Israel should have no land. How is the conflict going to be resolved as long as that is the Palestinian position?  It can't be.  It can never be resolved.
Click to expand...

Recognizing that the residents of Aqabah own clear title to approximately 3,500 dunams of registered (_Tabo_) land,

Aqabah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​
Israel just wants to steal that land.


----------



## Shusha

Israel wants to prevent lawless people from building without permits and without community planning. Israel wants to discourage small villages all over the map in Area C, and build modern communities instead.  Israel wants to ensure its security against its enemies.  

Israel is not trying to steal the land of that particular family.  Seriously, its 3500 dunams, who cares?  Its trying to prevent illegal growth of a community where is makes no sense to have a larger community.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Israel wants to prevent lawless people from building without permits and without community planning. Israel wants to discourage small villages all over the map in Area C, and build modern communities instead.  Israel wants to ensure its security against its enemies.
> 
> Israel is not trying to steal the land of that particular family.  Seriously, its 3500 dunams, who cares?  Its trying to prevent illegal growth of a community where is makes no sense to have a larger community.


Link?


----------



## Shusha

Think of it from an American or Canadian perspective.  Your family bought a patch of agricultural land in the 1930's.  It is surrounded by State lands in all directions.  There is a town a few miles off.  

Most of the land in the area is not being used as agricultural land, except for your families small plot.  The city planners want to turn that State land into, oh, say an industrial zone and build a highway through to the next town.  It makes sense for the broad plan for the growing industry.  

Obviously, the government can't just go in and steal the land owned by your family.  That would be wrong.  What they should do is offer you incentives to sell and move.  

But, by the same token, obviously, you and your family can't build houses and schools and medical clinics and businesses on the land, even if it is owned by you, without consulting with the city planners.  You certainly can't invite a bunch of friends to come over and do that.  And you especially can't build on land which does not belong to your family.  In other words, you are obligated not to change the character of the land.and its use without permission.  You may end up with a small plot of farmland in the middle of an industrial zone.  In which case, you deal with the consequences of that.  

This is no different from anywhere in the US.  You keep what you have -- but you don't get to add to it.  

What any nation in this situation should do is grandfather the land in question for its original purpose.  The owners can continue to use it for that purpose for as long as they want.  But they can not make changes.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants to prevent lawless people from building without permits and without community planning. Israel wants to discourage small villages all over the map in Area C, and build modern communities instead.  Israel wants to ensure its security against its enemies.
> 
> Israel is not trying to steal the land of that particular family.  Seriously, its 3500 dunams, who cares?  Its trying to prevent illegal growth of a community where is makes no sense to have a larger community.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Link to what?  

What do you want me to demonstrate?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Think of it from an American or Canadian perspective.  Your family bought a patch of agricultural land in the 1930's.  It is surrounded by State lands in all directions.  There is a town a few miles off.
> 
> Most of the land in the area is not being used as agricultural land, except for your families small plot.  The city planners want to turn that State land into, oh, say an industrial zone and build a highway through to the next town.  It makes sense for the broad plan for the growing industry.
> 
> Obviously, the government can't just go in and steal the land owned by your family.  That would be wrong.  What they should do is offer you incentives to sell and move.
> 
> But, by the same token, obviously, you and your family can't build houses and schools and medical clinics and businesses on the land, even if it is owned by you, without consulting with the city planners.  You certainly can't invite a bunch of friends to come over and do that.  And you especially can't build on land which does not belong to your family.  In other words, you are obligated not to change the character of the land.and its use without permission.  You may end up with a small plot of farmland in the middle of an industrial zone.  In which case, you deal with the consequences of that.
> 
> This is no different from anywhere in the US.  You keep what you have -- but you don't get to add to it.
> 
> What any nation in this situation should do is grandfather the land in question for its original purpose.  The owners can continue to use it for that purpose for as long as they want.  But they can not make changes.


It is not the state. it is foreigners.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ms Hind Khoury Bethlehem Secretary General of Kairos Palestine *

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is not the state. it is foreigners.



No, its not.  Neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinians are foreigners.  

But even if they were, the concept I outlined above would apply to a (foreign) Japanese family buying land in Ohio.  People, individuals in a country, do not get to make their own rules about zoning and community planning.  It would result in chaos.  The government has the responsibility to create order and laws and then enforce them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the state. it is foreigners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, its not.  Neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinians are foreigners.
> 
> But even if they were, the concept I outlined above would apply to a (foreign) Japanese family buying land in Ohio.  People, individuals in a country, do not get to make their own rules about zoning and community planning.  It would result in chaos.  The government has the responsibility to create order and laws and then enforce them.
Click to expand...

Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Diana Buttu*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians and international organizations are building illegal structures in a closed military zone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should the Palestinians have to get permits from foreign assholes?
> 
> And the question she asked. Who would destroy a kindergarten? That is lower than whale shit.
Click to expand...







 because that is what they agreed to do, they cant make agreements and then go back on them when it does not suit them


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should the Palestinians have to get permits from foreign assholes?
> 
> And the question she asked. Who would destroy a kindergarten? That is lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Foreign assholes?  Funny given that the village itself was founded by people from Jordan, and they had been there only a handful of years before the war.
> 
> The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.  Why would people be exempt from the law because it is a kindergarten?  Is that how you can circumvent the law?  Just build an illegal kindergarten and then Israel will HAVE to let you stay?  And then you can build a bunch of houses around it and whamo!  cool new village that Israel can't touch.
> 
> The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.  A zone where soldiers perform live fire exercises.  Its DANGEROUS.  Why would you let your children live in the middle of a military zone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The kindergarten was illegally built in a closed military zone.
> 
> So, what foreign assholes called it a closed military zone?
Click to expand...







 Why don't you tell us, as the occupying nation are not foreign, they meet the criteria for citizenship of the area.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what foreign assholes called it a closed military zone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  The ones with the guns who won the war defending themselves and their indigenous peoples against an enemy which announced it was going to massacre them and deny them self-determination on their ancestral lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
Click to expand...






 So why haven't they, and put rocks and sand in its place ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you think it is ALL stolen land and that Israel should have no land. How is the conflict going to be resolved as long as that is the Palestinian position?  It can't be.  It can never be resolved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognizing that the residents of Aqabah own clear title to approximately 3,500 dunams of registered (_Tabo_) land,
> 
> Aqabah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
Click to expand...






Who issued the title and when. If it was after 1948 and by Jordan then it is illegal


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the state. it is foreigners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, its not.  Neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinians are foreigners.
> 
> But even if they were, the concept I outlined above would apply to a (foreign) Japanese family buying land in Ohio.  People, individuals in a country, do not get to make their own rules about zoning and community planning.  It would result in chaos.  The government has the responsibility to create order and laws and then enforce them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
Click to expand...






 Who says this is so?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Diana Buttu*








 Yet more islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think of it from an American or Canadian perspective.  Your family bought a patch of agricultural land in the 1930's.  It is surrounded by State lands in all directions.  There is a town a few miles off.
> 
> Most of the land in the area is not being used as agricultural land, except for your families small plot.  The city planners want to turn that State land into, oh, say an industrial zone and build a highway through to the next town.  It makes sense for the broad plan for the growing industry.
> 
> Obviously, the government can't just go in and steal the land owned by your family.  That would be wrong.  What they should do is offer you incentives to sell and move.
> 
> But, by the same token, obviously, you and your family can't build houses and schools and medical clinics and businesses on the land, even if it is owned by you, without consulting with the city planners.  You certainly can't invite a bunch of friends to come over and do that.  And you especially can't build on land which does not belong to your family.  In other words, you are obligated not to change the character of the land.and its use without permission.  You may end up with a small plot of farmland in the middle of an industrial zone.  In which case, you deal with the consequences of that.
> 
> This is no different from anywhere in the US.  You keep what you have -- but you don't get to add to it.
> 
> What any nation in this situation should do is grandfather the land in question for its original purpose.  The owners can continue to use it for that purpose for as long as they want.  But they can not make changes.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the state. it is foreigners.
Click to expand...






 Yes islamonazi foreigners that have invaded Jewish land


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you think it is ALL stolen land and that Israel should have no land. How is the conflict going to be resolved as long as that is the Palestinian position?  It can't be.  It can never be resolved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognizing that the residents of Aqabah own clear title to approximately 3,500 dunams of registered (_Tabo_) land,
> 
> Aqabah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who issued the title and when. If it was after 1948 and by Jordan then it is illegal
Click to expand...

They were there during the Mandate period but offhand I don't know it they were there before that.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ms Hind Khoury Bethlehem Secretary General of Kairos Palestine *
> 
> **








Can you see who made the video. the letters are big enough


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you think it is ALL stolen land and that Israel should have no land. How is the conflict going to be resolved as long as that is the Palestinian position?  It can't be.  It can never be resolved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognizing that the residents of Aqabah own clear title to approximately 3,500 dunams of registered (_Tabo_) land,
> 
> Aqabah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​
> Israel just wants to steal that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who issued the title and when. If it was after 1948 and by Jordan then it is illegal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were there during the Mandate period but offhand I don't know it they were there before that.
Click to expand...






 Did not answer the question as many squatters were there during the still ongoing mandate


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.



On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
Click to expand...

THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY

It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
for heating may take priority.

Destruction of property.
The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.

Private property cannot be confiscated.
Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
and cultural property.

The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
population into the territory it occupies.

Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited

*The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.

ICRC service


----------



## Shusha

Yes, exactly.  I am not advocating for the rights to be removed from the Palestinian people.  I'm arguing FOR their rights.  Their rights do not, however, extend to lawlessness.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
Click to expand...



THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY <------ note the use of all caps for dramatic affect!

All seriousness aside, tinny. There is no implied duty for anyone TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY when the territory is not occupied _or _when an area is occupied by Islamic terrorists_.
_
Supplying islamic terrorists with the means to continue acts of Islamic terrorism is an obligation carried by anyone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY <------ note the use of all caps for dramatic affect!
> 
> All seriousness aside, tinny. There is no implied duty for anyone TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY when the territory is not occupied _or _when an area is occupied by Islamic terrorists_.
> _
> Supplying islamic terrorists with the means to continue acts of Islamic terrorism is an obligation carried by anyone.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh, playing the old terrorist card again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY <------ note the use of all caps for dramatic affect!
> 
> All seriousness aside, tinny. There is no implied duty for anyone TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY when the territory is not occupied _or _when an area is occupied by Islamic terrorists_.
> _
> Supplying islamic terrorists with the means to continue acts of Islamic terrorism is an obligation carried by anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhh, playing the old terrorist card again.
Click to expand...

Not at all. Just educating one Islamist terrorist Pom Pom flailer at a time.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
Click to expand...







 So seeing as according to International law gaza is not occupied then Israel can close its borders to the transport of aid into gaza.

 So according to your way of thinking the occupation will carry on for ever more because the parties cant make any treaties that could end the occupation. Sounds stupid to me, and will mean that Mexico could occupy part of the U.S. and the U.S could not claim it back.


Where has there been mass deportations of civilians from gaza or west bank then, remembering that under these rules those guilty of armed insurrection can be forcibly driven back from the "front line" or deported from the land they possess.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY <------ note the use of all caps for dramatic affect!
> 
> All seriousness aside, tinny. There is no implied duty for anyone TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY when the territory is not occupied _or _when an area is occupied by Islamic terrorists_.
> _
> Supplying islamic terrorists with the means to continue acts of Islamic terrorism is an obligation carried by anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhh, playing the old terrorist card again.
Click to expand...






 No that is you who sees it as a get out card, and does not realise that it failed once Islamic states claimed the Palestinians were terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. The military occupation is not the state. It is a foreign occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY <------ note the use of all caps for dramatic affect!
> 
> All seriousness aside, tinny. There is no implied duty for anyone TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY when the territory is not occupied _or _when an area is occupied by Islamic terrorists_.
> _
> Supplying islamic terrorists with the means to continue acts of Islamic terrorism is an obligation carried by anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhh, playing the old terrorist card again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No that is you who sees it as a get out card, and does not realise that it failed once Islamic states claimed the Palestinians were terrorists.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, is name calling all you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*LARISSA SANSOUR*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

ISIS lite


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## Mindful

Commentary magazine:

Something truly shocking happened this week: A UN official publicly called out Hamas for “stealing from their own people and adding to the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza.” The shocking part is that someone from the UN actually bothered to comment. Usually, international officials prefer to ignore such malfeasance, lest admitting it undercut their claim that Palestinian suffering is Israel’s fault. Yet exacerbating Palestinian suffering is actually standard practice for both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, as demonstrated by several media reports from the past two weeks alone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


The problem with this line of crap is that Hamas rocket launchers are not permanent, or heavy, or expensive.







They fire off some rockets and a minute later they are down the road. Israel knows that the perps are gone but they bomb the crap out of all of the civilians in the area anyway.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with this line of crap is that Hamas rocket launchers are not permanent, or heavy, or expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They fire off some rockets and a minute later they are down the road. Israel knows that the perps are gone but they bomb the crap out of all of the civilians in the area anyway.
Click to expand...


Freedom fighters™


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The problem with this line of crap is that Hamas rocket launchers are not permanent, or heavy, or expensive.



So it would be really, really easy to put them far away from civilians and schools, hospitals, and refugee stations, then, wouldn't it?


----------



## Shusha

And, of course, they also have the option of not firing illegal indiscriminate weapons at Israeli civilians in violation of international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> And, of course, they also have the option of not firing illegal indiscriminate weapons at Israeli civilians in violation of international law.


And Israel had the opportunity to prosecute Hamas for those alleged crimes but turned it down.

Maybe Israel knows something that you don't.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the other thread you are arguing that occupiers have the obligation to provide for the welfare of the people.  Which is it?  Are they obligated to do so, or are they not?  If they are -- surely they must not allow lawlessness.
> 
> 
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
> 
> It is the duty of the occupying power to ensure that the population is
> provided with supplies to the fullest extent that it can.
> What is meant by supplies? The law refers to basic needs and to other
> supplies essential to the survival of the civilian population in the occupied
> territory. It specifies basic food and medical supplies as well as clothing,
> bedding and means of shelter. Also included are objects necessary for
> religious worship. Obviously, a common-sense approach is required in
> meeting the requirements of the law. In cold climates, for example, fuel
> for heating may take priority.
> 
> Destruction of property.
> The occupying power is not allowed to destroy real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, to the State, to other public authorities or to social or co-operative organizations, except where such destruction is made absolutely necessary by military operations.
> 
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> Property used for religious purposes, for charity, education, or the arts
> and sciences, must be treated as private property even if it belongs to
> the State. Here the law is quite clear. It is forbidden to seize, destroy or
> willfully damage such property. The same applies to historical monuments
> and cultural property.
> 
> The occupying power must not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian
> population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> Individual or mass forcible transfers and deportations of the civilian population from occupied territory are prohibited
> 
> *The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.* This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THE DUTY TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY <------ note the use of all caps for dramatic affect!
> 
> All seriousness aside, tinny. There is no implied duty for anyone TO PROVIDE SUPPLIES TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY when the territory is not occupied _or _when an area is occupied by Islamic terrorists_.
> _
> Supplying islamic terrorists with the means to continue acts of Islamic terrorism is an obligation carried by anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhh, playing the old terrorist card again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No that is you who sees it as a get out card, and does not realise that it failed once Islamic states claimed the Palestinians were terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, is name calling all you got?
Click to expand...







What name calling are you on about, the facts speak for themselves. The Palestinians are called terrorists by their fellow arab muslims, then by the rest of the civilised world. So the name calling comes from you who cant handle the reality and see that the palestinians are disliked by the vast majority of civilised people.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *LARISSA SANSOUR*
> 
> **







 Is that all you have islamonazi pallywood propaganda from Tariq Ali ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?








 Not Palestinian at all as it does not cover the Jews who are also Palestinians. Just islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
Click to expand...







 One sided islamonazi propaganda from your usual source


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, they also have the option of not firing illegal indiscriminate weapons at Israeli civilians in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel had the opportunity to prosecute Hamas for those alleged crimes but turned it down.
> 
> Maybe Israel knows something that you don't.
Click to expand...






 When was that then, as Israel has not been in that position for many years, in fact decades.  It was fatah that was in that position and when it came out they would face the charges they dropped their claims.


 Maybe fatah knew more than they let on and just told you lies that you believed


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Strange, very strange indeed.   Just when did Israel have "the opportunity to prosecute Hamas for those alleged crimes but turned it down."



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, they also have the option of not firing illegal indiscriminate weapons at Israeli civilians in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel had the opportunity to prosecute Hamas for those alleged crimes but turned it down.
> 
> Maybe Israel knows something that you don't.
Click to expand...

*(QUESTIONS)*

Israel is not a party to the ICC.  

•  What court are we talking about?
•  Who offered the Israelis an opportunity to prosecute?
•  What did this unknown authority offer to prosecute?
•  Who extended the offer and who turned it down on behalf of the Israelis?​
Does the fact that allegations of HAMAS violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) are being investigated by Israeli Criminal Investigators having jurisdiction and the genuine ability to carry out the investigations make a difference?

In 1997, after the HAMAS bombings of the Mahane Yehuda Market, it is alleged that Israeli Operatives poisoned Khaled Mashal in his Amman Office of HAMAS.  Through the direct intervention of HM King Abdullah and threatening to sever diplomatic relations with Israel, Israel provided an antidote for the poison.   It is alleged that HAMAS coerced the Jordanian Government with violence if Khaled Mashal died.   In 1999, HM Government accused HAMAS of illegal activities geared at disrupting the Peace Treaty between Jordan and Israel.  As a consequence, King Abdullah banned HAMAS activities in Jordan and began arresting the key HAMAS officials in Jordan; to include Khaled Mashal _(who was the person Israel was accused of attempting to neutralize just two years before)_.  This was not the first time that Hostile Arab Palestinians had been involved in doing direct harm to Jordan.  In 1970 the PLO Fedayeen of Black September instigated a Jordanian Civil War _(the same Black September that kidnaped and murdered of 11 athletes during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich)_.  

Does it make a difference that the Chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau, Khaled Mashal, maintaining a residence in exile --- Doha, Qatar?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with this line of crap is that Hamas rocket launchers are not permanent, or heavy, or expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They fire off some rockets and a minute later they are down the road. Israel knows that the perps are gone but they bomb the crap out of all of the civilians in the area anyway.
Click to expand...






 And most are fixed as they fire grad as well as qassam rockets. These are the ones Israel targets and puts them out of action. It does not matter to the Geneva conventions as they are explicit in their wording, use a building to fire weapons from and that building is targeted as military from that day on.   The world has spoken out against these weapons and decreed them to be illegal and every one a war crime


----------



## Phoenall

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with this line of crap is that Hamas rocket launchers are not permanent, or heavy, or expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it would be really, really easy to put them far away from civilians and schools, hospitals, and refugee stations, then, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...






 That would mean the "brave" sic  Palestinian fighters would be out in the open and easily targeted by the IDF. We cant have that as the Palestinians would not have hundreds of casualties that they could claim were civilians


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

The Israelis don't bomb these kinds of target types.  Your assumption is wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with this line of crap is that Hamas rocket launchers are not permanent, or heavy, or expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They fire off some rockets and a minute later they are down the road. Israel knows that the perps are gone but they bomb the crap out of all of the civilians in the area anyway.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)
*
The tactic you describe is nothing new.  When I was in Vietnam, this was the typical strategy employed by the communists VC/NVA.

The Allied Powers are very familiar with these types of targets.  Typically, they are engaged "prior to launch" by stand-off direct fire systems like an AH-1 Cobra or an AH-64 Apache.  These orbit out as far as 5 miles and swoop-in to close for contact at 3.5 miles away.  The Israeli Apache can engaged with 70mm GATR-L (some are laser-guided) rockets and AGM-114 Hellfire Missiles.  They have excellent Target Acquisition and Designation Systems (TADS). 

I think you will find that in some cases (many cases in fact) Israeli C-RAM can detect and calculate incoming while still airborne and electronically enter the target data into a firing system and have counter-fire on the way back within seconds of the HAMAS first round hitting.

However, what is important here is not so much the question of "they bomb the crap out of all of the civilians in the area anyway" --- but that HAMAS is never called to task for having the exact policy you cite:

•  ICRC Customary IHL

23.Location of Military Objectives outside Densely Populated Areas
24.Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
If, as the picture depicts, there are no civilians in the vicinity, then --- of course ---  using the scenario you describe will not endanger civilians.  However, if HAMAS locates their launch sites in densely populated area which they failed to remove civilians from, then --- civilian are placed in harm's way by HAMAS. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One sided islamonazi propaganda from your usual source
Click to expand...

Sour grapes. You just don't like Noura kicking Israel's liar in the nuts.

And human shields was not his only lie. He shoveled shit throughout the interview.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

PA Ministry of Culture and Ministry of Education organize activity honoring murderer of 3 - PMW Bulletins 

Palestinian Authority Ministry of Culture and Ministry of Education organize activity at PA school honoring murder of three

Who better to "encourage reading" than a murderer of 3?

At least that's what officials in the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Culture and Ministry of Education seem to think. Adopting the idea of "human chains of readers" named after terrorist Baha Alyan who together with an accomplice murdered 3 Israeli civilians on a bus in Jerusalem last year, the two ministries organized such a chain at a PA school for boys in Qalqiliya.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One sided islamonazi propaganda from your usual source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sour grapes. You just don't like Noura kicking Israel's liar in the nuts.
> 
> And human shields was not his only lie. He shoveled shit throughout the interview.
Click to expand...








 And then the French and Indian journalists produced the pictures to prove that hamas was indeed using civilians as human shields and the whole LIE was exposed. Then it was shown that foreign nationals were used as human shields as well and the UN made the claims of illegal acts, and after the ICC/ICJ did as the palestinians demanded and looked at Israel's breaches of international law they decided that they did not have the power to try Israel but could try Palestine for war crimes and crimes against humanity. This led to fatah withdrawing their complaint as they faced questions they did not want to face


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **








 Still just islamonazi propaganda that should be banned until two unbiased sources support the claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Saed Bana*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ismail Haniyeh*

**
**


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? Ismail Haniyeh


A terrorist thug.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ahed Tamimi*


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?


P F Tinmore resorts to youcrap spamming, of course. Palistanians have never had and still have no land and no borders. Forget it.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## montelatici

Palestinians are Christians too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Queen Rania*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## montelatici




----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> Palestinians are Christians too.


Indeed, they are, sometimes.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


>


The Arab-Moslem gee-had must be confronted. 

Putting the _had_ in gee-had.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? Queen Rania


Weren't her relatives kicked out of Kuwait as result of the palistanian galactical stupidity? Anyway, seems like our noble landless-borderless P F Tinmore is reduced to youcrapping, which is boring.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh*
> 
> **
> **









 Just more islamonazi propaganda and LIES


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*









 If they did not resort to civil unrest and tried diplomacy they would not face occupaqtion. See how they are blaming all their problems on Israel when they resort to intimidation and violence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*



Thank you for that, Tinman.  I actually watched that one.  And it helped me understand the blind cognitive dissonance that the Palestinians have for recognizing their own responsibility towards the conflict and their own suffering.  It also reaffirms the Palestinian goal to "liberate" land which they see as theirs, while refusing to consider compromise and peace and the willingness to sacrifice their own dreams and goals for such an end.  

Its a little sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Tissue?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Tissue?


Celebration of death. It's what Pal'istanian retrogrades do.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Committee for justice in Hamas'istan


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> Committee for justice in Hamas'istan



OMG, their own people!  And this is who Tinmore wants to rule "Palestine".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> 
> 
> Celebration of death. It's what Pal'istanian retrogrades do.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian intifada against Pal'istanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal'istanian intifada against Pal'istanians.


These are the people who attempted a coup in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian intifada against Pal'istanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the people who attempted a coup in Gaza.
Click to expand...

That'll learn'em.


----------



## Hollie

Who _were_ the Pal'istanian tunnel rats?


----------



## P F Tinmore

**
*Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians, of course.*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the obedient Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

* I am Palestinian Christian + I am Original, First & Native *


----------



## José

Hollie said:


> Committee for justice in Hamas'istan



YOUTUBE COMMENTS:

Jalany Bravo 1 year ago
Dafuq.. this not from palestinians you moron. this is from syrian...... go research. damn asshole

Thisa GuyOkay 1 year ago
To save other viewers doing research - How do you know it's Syria?

Jalany Bravo 1 year ago
go find out your self. Moron I don't need more explanation to you..

Jalany Bravo 1 year ago
that video at 0:31 here is the translation 
1st Soldier: Ser. he was recording the video 
2nd Soldier: From Al-Qussair You Animal? 
Commander: that dog from Al-Qussair? 
2nd Soldier: Move Over, Let Me See this Animal 
2nd Soldier: From Al-Qussair You Animal, 
Commander: Bury Him, Bury 
Muslim : Oh Allah I have No One But you, Oh Allahi 
Commander: Bury The Animal 
Muslim : Oh Allah I have No One But you, Oh Allahi 
Muslim : Oh Allah! 
Muslim : I bare Witness that there is no GOD but Allah! 
Commander : *Say There Is No GOD but Bashar, you animal*. 
Muslim : I bare Witness that there is no God But Allah! 
Commander Bury This Animal, Bury Him

Bulshit Cracker 1 year ago
You might be right about this video I don't know. There are however plenty of videos released after Hamas took over Gaza showing similar things. ,  

John Johnny 1 year ago
+Bulshit Cracker you name said it all "Bulshit, this is in syria you jew, go back to auschwitz where you belong lol


----------



## José

ForeverYoung436 said:


> OMG, their own people!  And this is who Tinmore wants to rule "Palestine".



The desire to demonize the palestinian people is too great to resist.

Ethics be damned.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>









 Off topic deflection and no content spamming again.   Why the deflection away from the truth


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Tissue?









 Why do you need one after seeing the truth ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>







 Off topic deflection again, why do you find it so hard to stay on topic ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> 
> 
> Celebration of death. It's what Pal'istanian retrogrades do.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






 Is he still a politician or was he voted out ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian intifada against Pal'istanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the people who attempted a coup in Gaza.
Click to expand...







 These are Palestinians and are representative of all of Palestine the world over.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> **
> *Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians, of course.*







 Just because they are wearing civilian clothes does not mean they are civilians. Common practise in Palestine to ditch your uniform when on active duty


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, their own people!  And this is who Tinmore wants to rule "Palestine".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The desire to demonize the palestinian people is too great to resist.
> 
> Ethics be damned.
Click to expand...


Have you watched the video?  They do their own demonizing for themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **




Until they no longer exist.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **



On April 4, 2016, a 1500-year-old Byzantine Church was destroyed by a Palestinian bulldozer in Gaza, to make way for a shopping mall.  BTW, how can the poor, besieged Gazans even afford a shopping mall?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they no longer exist.
Click to expand...

Justus Reid Weiner is an Israeli propaganda hack.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they no longer exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justus Reid Weiner is an Israeli propaganda hack.
Click to expand...

Pretending you don't understand the purge of religious minorities (non-muhammedans), from the entirety of the Islamist Middle East is simply dishonest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they no longer exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justus Reid Weiner is an Israeli propaganda hack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretending you don't understand the purge of religious minorities (non-muhammedans), from the entirety of the Islamist Middle East is simply dishonest.
Click to expand...

Off topic. Wrong forum.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they no longer exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justus Reid Weiner is an Israeli propaganda hack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretending you don't understand the purge of religious minorities (non-muhammedans), from the entirety of the Islamist Middle East is simply dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. Wrong forum.
Click to expand...


Sidestepping. De'nile of the truth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza


Thanks for the link. 

The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.

“People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
Click to expand...


Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
Click to expand...

Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
Click to expand...

Why are you in De'nile of the truth?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you in De'nile of the truth?
Click to expand...

Israel's truth or the real truth?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) video. No credibility here.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian islamic terrorists?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?

*Fatah: “Glory and eternity” 
to female suicide bombers
*
Fatah: “Glory and eternity” to female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins


*Suicide bomber who murdered 6 is:
"The hero Andalib Takatka... carried out a Martyrdom-seeking operation in Jerusalem in which 6 Zionists were killed, and dozens injured"
*
*Suicide bomber Ayyat Al-Akhras who murdered 2 and wounded 28 is:“Bride of Palestine”*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


*Palestinian Authority Ministry of Culture
 and Ministry of Education 
organize activity at PA school
honoring murderer of three.

PA Ministry of Culture and Ministry of Education organize activity honoring murderer of 3 - PMW Bulletins

*
Yes. "education and culture" of the Islamic terrorist brand.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians and friends.


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanians and friendly advise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Laila Al-Arian*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Rashid Khalidi*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **







 But only just after the Palestinians ethnically cleansed 90% of them from their homes and property


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Christians In Palestine – Yes, They Exist *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they no longer exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justus Reid Weiner is an Israeli propaganda hack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretending you don't understand the purge of religious minorities (non-muhammedans), from the entirety of the Islamist Middle East is simply dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. Wrong forum.
Click to expand...








 No it is dealing with Palestinians that are being ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
Click to expand...







 PROOF that it is an Israeli propaganda video.

 No reply means that you are inciting again


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you in De'nile of the truth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's truth or the real truth?
Click to expand...







 Certainly not your islamonazi truth that is based on LIES and PALLYWOOD


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) video. No credibility here.
Click to expand...







 PROOF   or admit you are inciting


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians and friends.










 Look closely and all you see are neo Marxists, islamonazi and Nazi's, hardly a recipe for peaceful co existence as they are all guilty of mass murders, genocides and atrocities.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Laila Al-Arian*
> 
> **








 Saying KILL THE JEWS, KILL THE POPE and KILL THE UNBELIEVERS is not free speech it is hate speech and anyone saying it should be arrested and charged with inciting murder. The sentence should be one of 3 outcomes life in solitary, deportation for them and all their muslim enclave or summary execution.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*








 Did you read the comment

 Known to the police
 Involved in attacks on Jews
 easily led into buying weapons

 So how was a Palestinian.      Again of topic deflection


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## José

Folks, meet my wife Hollie...







I'm not into domestic violence but if she continues down her current path of demonizing the palestinian people 24\7 I won't be able to make any promises about her physical integrity.


----------



## Hollie

Your cheap threats impress no one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PROOF that it is an Israeli propaganda video.
> 
> No reply means that you are inciting again
Click to expand...

Posted by *Muslims Worship Satan!*

Surely an unbiased site.* *


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PROOF that it is an Israeli propaganda video.
> 
> No reply means that you are inciting again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted by *Muslims Worship Satan!*
> 
> Surely an unbiased site.* *
Click to expand...

It's pretty remarkable that you would be critical of "unbiased" websites.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Laila Al-Arian*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saying KILL THE JEWS, KILL THE POPE and KILL THE UNBELIEVERS is not free speech it is hate speech and anyone saying it should be arrested and charged with inciting murder. The sentence should be one of 3 outcomes life in solitary, deportation for them and all their muslim enclave or summary execution.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link for that crap.

BTW, the government got no convictions from the jury on any of their phony charges. *Not one.* It is just another sham trial based on its phony war on terror and persecution of Palestinian rights activists.

**


----------



## Hollie

Who were the Pal'istanians?


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> It is just another sham trial based on its phony war on terror and persecution of Palestinian rights activists.


Shouldn't palistanians be pimping their rights up in palistan?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> After 2,000 years, Christians disappearing from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and the highest unemployment rate in the world are prompting Christians to leave the besieged area in droves, some using the holiday season to their advantage.
> 
> “People might think we’re leaving because of Hamas, but no it’s because of ... (Israeli) policies on Gaza,” Jaber Jilder, an official with the Greek Orthodox Church said, referring to the militant group that governs Gaza and is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States and others.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does Gaza require control? Could it have anything to do with Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post an Israeli propaganda video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PROOF that it is an Israeli propaganda video.
> 
> No reply means that you are inciting again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted by *Muslims Worship Satan!*
> 
> Surely an unbiased site.* *
Click to expand...







So no proof of your claims, now why am I not surprised.


 Show the link to Israel ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who were the Pal'istanians?


And after many tries for the biggest mooched military in the world, there is Hamas a handful of resistance fighters armed with small arms and bottle rockets still a major threat.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after many tries for the biggest mooched military in the world, there is Hamas a handful of resistance fighters armed with small arms and bottle rockets still a major threat.
Click to expand...


The Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic gee-had pose the greatest threat to 'Pal'istanians who die as cheap currency for those groups. Hamas only acts as a resistance to the Pal'istanians clawing their way out of retrogression and welfare fraud.

How's that workin' out for ya'?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after many tries for the biggest mooched military in the world, there is Hamas a handful of resistance fighters armed with small arms and bottle rockets still a major threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic gee-had pose the greatest threat to 'Pal'istanians who die as cheap currency for those groups. Hamas only acts as a resistance to the Pal'istanians clawing their way out of retrogression and welfare fraud.
> 
> How's that workin' out for ya'?
Click to expand...

OK, every time Israel bombs the crap out of civilians in Gaza the support for Palestinians takes a big jump.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after many tries for the biggest mooched military in the world, there is Hamas a handful of resistance fighters armed with small arms and bottle rockets still a major threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic gee-had pose the greatest threat to 'Pal'istanians who die as cheap currency for those groups. Hamas only acts as a resistance to the Pal'istanians clawing their way out of retrogression and welfare fraud.
> 
> How's that workin' out for ya'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, every time Israel bombs the crap out of civilians in Gaza the support for Palestinians takes a big jump.
Click to expand...


Israel responds to provocations from one or more of the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza / West Bank. Pal'istanians dying as a result of acts of islamic terrorism is a calculated tactic of your Islamic terrorist heroes. 

What support for 'Pal'istanians takes a big jump? You somehow sweepingly miss the point that Arabs-Moslems in the islamist Middle East have largely abandoned any interest in providing material or political support to the pals. Your claim of some "big jump in support" is silly and naive.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Shireen Said*

Christian woman addresses 70,000 supporters in Gaza.






But the recent 42nd anniversary rally of the PFLP in Gaza, which attracted some 70,000 people, raised the profile of the Palestinian revolutionary left and also of the role of women: one young woman of the PFLP, called Shireen Said, stood on stage, giving a salute in military fatigues, and co-chaired the rally alongside her male comrade.  In an interview with the writer, Said explained a little about her background, stating that she was born in 1985 in the Jabalya refugee camp, from which the "children of the stones" started the first Intifada.  "My childhood memories are mostly of the first Intifada," she explains.  In her early teens she became involved in one of the student movements associated with the PFLP.

Leila Khaled and Shireen Said Interviewed by Sukant Chandan, "Palestinian Revolutionaries on International Women's Day"


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Shireen Said*
> 
> Christian woman addresses 70,000 supporters in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the recent 42nd anniversary rally of the PFLP in Gaza, which attracted some 70,000 people, raised the profile of the Palestinian revolutionary left and also of the role of women: one young woman of the PFLP, called Shireen Said, stood on stage, giving a salute in military fatigues, and co-chaired the rally alongside her male comrade.  In an interview with the writer, Said explained a little about her background, stating that she was born in 1985 in the Jabalya refugee camp, from which the "children of the stones" started the first Intifada.  "My childhood memories are mostly of the first Intifada," she explains.  In her early teens she became involved in one of the student movements associated with the PFLP.
> 
> Leila Khaled and Shireen Said Interviewed by Sukant Chandan, "Palestinian Revolutionaries on International Women's Day"



How many times have we seen these reruns already?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Shireen Said*
> 
> Christian woman addresses 70,000 supporters in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the recent 42nd anniversary rally of the PFLP in Gaza, which attracted some 70,000 people, raised the profile of the Palestinian revolutionary left and also of the role of women: one young woman of the PFLP, called Shireen Said, stood on stage, giving a salute in military fatigues, and co-chaired the rally alongside her male comrade.  In an interview with the writer, Said explained a little about her background, stating that she was born in 1985 in the Jabalya refugee camp, from which the "children of the stones" started the first Intifada.  "My childhood memories are mostly of the first Intifada," she explains.  In her early teens she became involved in one of the student movements associated with the PFLP.
> 
> Leila Khaled and Shireen Said Interviewed by Sukant Chandan, "Palestinian Revolutionaries on International Women's Day"


Might I suggest that you email the various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza'istan and advise that there may be additional military uniforms available.... even if they are in women's sizing.

I think your Islamic terrorist heroes would look absolutely stunning in 4" pumps, figure enhancing blouses and maybe a matching shoulder bag.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after many tries for the biggest mooched military in the world, there is Hamas a handful of resistance fighters armed with small arms and bottle rockets still a major threat.
Click to expand...








 I would not call grad missiles, mortars, grenade throwers and the like small arms. Those are normally sidearms.   And if a qassam landed 1 block away from where you live you would not call it a bottle rocket either, you would be looking for clean trousers


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after many tries for the biggest mooched military in the world, there is Hamas a handful of resistance fighters armed with small arms and bottle rockets still a major threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic gee-had pose the greatest threat to 'Pal'istanians who die as cheap currency for those groups. Hamas only acts as a resistance to the Pal'istanians clawing their way out of retrogression and welfare fraud.
> 
> How's that workin' out for ya'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, every time Israel bombs the crap out of civilians in Gaza the support for Palestinians takes a big jump.
Click to expand...







 Not any more as now the journalists are reporting the truth about using foreign nationals, women, children and the elderly as human shields. The world no longer likes what it sees and is rooting for Israel to take out the terrorists.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Shireen Said*
> 
> Christian woman addresses 70,000 supporters in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the recent 42nd anniversary rally of the PFLP in Gaza, which attracted some 70,000 people, raised the profile of the Palestinian revolutionary left and also of the role of women: one young woman of the PFLP, called Shireen Said, stood on stage, giving a salute in military fatigues, and co-chaired the rally alongside her male comrade.  In an interview with the writer, Said explained a little about her background, stating that she was born in 1985 in the Jabalya refugee camp, from which the "children of the stones" started the first Intifada.  "My childhood memories are mostly of the first Intifada," she explains.  In her early teens she became involved in one of the student movements associated with the PFLP.
> 
> Leila Khaled and Shireen Said Interviewed by Sukant Chandan, "Palestinian Revolutionaries on International Women's Day"








 There is only one thing worse that islamonazi propaganda, and that is neo Marxist islamonazi propaganda


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Zena Agha*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Zena Agha*
> 
> **








 OFF TOPIC DRIVEL AGAIN


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*LINDA SARSOUR: ISRAEL TRAINS US POLICE *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## Hollie

Who is ISIS-lite?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who is ISIS-lite?


* Israel's Foreign Affairs Min.*
A lying sack of crap site.


----------



## Hollie

Who is ISIS-lite?


----------



## Phoenall

OF TOPIC DEFLECTION again because you are losing the argument


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is ISIS-lite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Israel's Foreign Affairs Min.*
> A lying sack of crap site.
Click to expand...







 Of course it is, after all it destroys your arguments every time


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is ISIS-lite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Israel's Foreign Affairs Min.*
> A lying sack of crap site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it is, after all it destroys your arguments every time
Click to expand...

Those clowns wouldn't know the truth if it bit them an the ass.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is ISIS-lite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Israel's Foreign Affairs Min.*
> A lying sack of crap site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it is, after all it destroys your arguments every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those clowns wouldn't know the truth if it bit them an the ass.
Click to expand...

But they are your clowns.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is ISIS-lite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Israel's Foreign Affairs Min.*
> A lying sack of crap site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it is, after all it destroys your arguments every time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those clowns wouldn't know the truth if it bit them an the ass.
Click to expand...






Is that why you deflect and derail when they are used to disprove your islamonazi propagands, like you are doing here ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

PA seeks international recognition for "right" to kill Israelis - PMW Bulletins


*PA seeks international recognition 
for "right" to kill Israelis*


PA seeks Nobel Peace Prize for imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti - convicted for the murder of five, as* "a call to recognize the legitimacy of the 
prisoners' struggle,"* i.e., the legitimacy of the "right" to kill Israelis

PA calls to reject Israeli terminology that *"does not recognize the legitimacy of their struggle, and treat them as 'terrorists and criminals'"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> PA seeks international recognition for "right" to kill Israelis - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> *PA seeks international recognition
> for "right" to kill Israelis*
> 
> 
> PA seeks Nobel Peace Prize for imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti - convicted for the murder of five, as* "a call to recognize the legitimacy of the
> prisoners' struggle,"* i.e., the legitimacy of the "right" to kill Israelis
> 
> PA calls to reject Israeli terminology that *"does not recognize the legitimacy of their struggle, and treat them as 'terrorists and criminals'"*


*Do Occupied People have the Right to Resist their Occupation?*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Do Occupied People have the Right to Resist their Occupation?*



I haven't yet watched the video.  I'll try just now. 

But...my initial response to the question is that they have every right to resist "occupation" but no right to reject the self-determination of another peoples with historical, religious, national, ethnic and cultural claim to the land.  Especially since it is a prior claim.


----------



## Shusha

Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist. 

Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*









 Once more we get islamonazi propaganda as if it is the truth

 your source is   
American Muslims for Palestine


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> PA seeks international recognition for "right" to kill Israelis - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> *PA seeks international recognition
> for "right" to kill Israelis*
> 
> 
> PA seeks Nobel Peace Prize for imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti - convicted for the murder of five, as* "a call to recognize the legitimacy of the
> prisoners' struggle,"* i.e., the legitimacy of the "right" to kill Israelis
> 
> PA calls to reject Israeli terminology that *"does not recognize the legitimacy of their struggle, and treat them as 'terrorists and criminals'"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Do Occupied People have the Right to Resist their Occupation?*
> 
> **
Click to expand...








Right up until they start firing illegal weapons at children, and start targeting children in another country for their violence. Then they become vile psychopathic mass murderers and are prey to being shot on sight.


 Only a moron would support this action, making you a moron.


----------



## Phoenall

Shusha said:


> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.








 The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent


----------



## Mindful

I - Origin and identity of the so-called Palestinians

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

*The Palestinians:* No, they are not any ancient people, but claim to be. They were born in a single day, after a war that lasted six days in 1967 c.e. If they were true Canaanites, they would speak Hebrew and demand from Syria to give them back their occupied homeland in Lebanon, but they are not. If they were Philistines, they would claim back the Isle of Crete from Greece and would recognize that they have nothing to do with the Land of Israel, and would ask excuses to Israel for having stolen the Ark of the Covenant.

"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".


- Joseph Farah, "Myths of the Middle East" -



Read what the Arabs say:

Palestinian Myths


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
Click to expand...

Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
Click to expand...

You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
Click to expand...



arabs would not let them.  land that would have been part of palestinian state was annexed by jordan and occupied by egypt.  They had decades to declare a state for the palestinias but wouldn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
Click to expand...

The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.

The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.

Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.

Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rafeef Ziadah*

**


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rafeef Ziadah*
> 
> **




They teach death


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
Click to expand...

Well, that's all very nice. Why did you bother?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


*The PA's billion dollar fraud

The PA's Billion Dollar Fraud - PMW Bulletins*

The Palestinian Authority is deceiving Western donor countries, 
falsely claiming to have stopped paying salaries to terrorist prisoners, and reaping more than a billion dollars/year in return

This special report by Palestinian Media Watch reveals a major fraud by the Palestinian Authority, through which it is reaping more than a billion dollars in foreign aid yearly*. 
*


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
Click to expand...



The Palestinian Jews you mean?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> *The PA's billion dollar fraud
> 
> The PA's Billion Dollar Fraud - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is deceiving Western donor countries,
> falsely claiming to have stopped paying salaries to terrorist prisoners, and reaping more than a billion dollars/year in return
> 
> This special report by Palestinian Media Watch reveals a major fraud by the Palestinian Authority, through which it is reaping more than a billion dollars in foreign aid yearly*. *



Palestine Media Watch.  A neutral and objective news source.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> *The PA's billion dollar fraud
> 
> The PA's Billion Dollar Fraud - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is deceiving Western donor countries,
> falsely claiming to have stopped paying salaries to terrorist prisoners, and reaping more than a billion dollars/year in return
> 
> This special report by Palestinian Media Watch reveals a major fraud by the Palestinian Authority, through which it is reaping more than a billion dollars in foreign aid yearly*. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Media Watch.  A neutral and objective news source.
Click to expand...

Little angry Monty. He gets incensed when his Islamic terrorist heroes are exposed for the Death Cult they maintain.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
Click to expand...


Just look at the source.

I don't know how you have the nerve. 

Sort of thing George Galloway would write.


----------



## Mindful

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> *The PA's billion dollar fraud
> 
> The PA's Billion Dollar Fraud - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is deceiving Western donor countries,
> falsely claiming to have stopped paying salaries to terrorist prisoners, and reaping more than a billion dollars/year in return
> 
> This special report by Palestinian Media Watch reveals a major fraud by the Palestinian Authority, through which it is reaping more than a billion dollars in foreign aid yearly*. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Media Watch.  A neutral and objective news source.
Click to expand...


Like you.

lol


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> *The PA's billion dollar fraud
> 
> The PA's Billion Dollar Fraud - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is deceiving Western donor countries,
> falsely claiming to have stopped paying salaries to terrorist prisoners, and reaping more than a billion dollars/year in return
> 
> This special report by Palestinian Media Watch reveals a major fraud by the Palestinian Authority, through which it is reaping more than a billion dollars in foreign aid yearly*. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Media Watch.  A neutral and objective news source.
Click to expand...

... and with references to documents / Fatah Facebook page.

How about that? Islamic terrorists using kuffar technology to spread your ideology of hate.

Now, about those little Monty islamo-tap dancing shoes.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem



Except you forgot one very important part  The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine for the purpose of re-constituting the Jewish National Homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Amin Odeh*

**


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except you forgot one very important part  The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine for the purpose of re-constituting the Jewish National Homeland.
Click to expand...


That conflicts with "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."?  The religious and civil rights of the Christians and Muslims were certainly prejudiced.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

NARD Band
Maysa Daw - Vocal
Raymond Haddad - Bass,music &lyrics
Rami Nakhlee - Drums
Ehab Drubi - Guitar


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

"by Aubra Salt - The Oregon Herald Saturday October 4, 2014   12:55 PM

More Than 1500 Palestinian Children Murdered By Israel



Wonder why I'm publishing this story? You say it's too old? I don't think so. I may side with the Israel government generally, but what they did is murder and should be held totally responsible. We should accept no excuses for such slaughter.

The controlled mass media has been overwhelming in its coverage of the three murdered Israeli teens—but has completely suppressed the names and identities of the in excess of 1,500 Palestinian teens who have been murdered by Israeli state-sponsored terrorism since the year 2000."

Review: More Than 1500 Palestinian Children Murdered By Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


Pfffft. Chickenfeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Honey Thaljieh - Captain of Palestinian football team *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*SHADIA MANSOUR*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?


Israel really needs to stop its war.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...


When the last act of war is waged by the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the last act of war is waged by the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians.
Click to expand...

Not true but keep banging on that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the last act of war is waged by the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but keep banging on that.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can show me where the Hamas Charter allows for anything but war and conquest. 

Do you need links to the relevant sections?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel really needs to stop its war.



Given that the goal of the Palestinians is to destroy the State of Israel there is absolutely nothing Israel could do to "stop the war" short of destroying itself, which you seriously can't expect it to do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given that the goal of the Palestinians is to destroy the State of Israel there is absolutely nothing Israel could do to "stop the war" short of destroying itself, which you seriously can't expect it to do.
Click to expand...

Some Palestinians may say that but that is* because* of the war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian child abusers?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?



Go get educated.


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the last act of war is waged by the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but keep banging on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you can show me where the Hamas Charter allows for anything but war and conquest.
> 
> Do you need links to the relevant sections?
Click to expand...


Here:

*Article Thirty-One:*
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts.

Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that.

It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror. Everyone of them is at variance with his fellow-religionists, not to speak about followers of other religionists. Past and present history are full of examples to prove this fact.

"They will not fight against you in a body, except in fenced towns, or from behind walls. Their strength in war among themselves is great: thou thinkest them to be united; but their hearts are divided. This, because they are people who do not understand." (The Emigration - verse 14).
Islam confers upon everyone his legitimate rights. Islam prevents the incursion on other people's rights. The Zionist Nazi activities against our people will not last for long. "For the state of injustice lasts but one day, while the state of justice lasts till Doomsday."

"As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly." (The Tried - verse 8).


----------



## Challenger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given that the goal of the Palestinians is to destroy the State of Israel there is absolutely nothing Israel could do to "stop the war" short of destroying itself, which you seriously can't expect it to do.
Click to expand...

It could become an inclusive western secular democracy unlike the Herrenvolk version it is at the moment.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the last act of war is waged by the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but keep banging on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you can show me where the Hamas Charter allows for anything but war and conquest.
> 
> Do you need links to the relevant sections?
Click to expand...


Good luck with that.


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian child abusers?


 That would be the Zionists, 438 Palestinian children abused in Zionist Israeli prisons and as for torture...
Israeli torture of Palestinian children ‘increasing’


----------



## Mindful

**Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam.**

Up the Caliphate!

And D'himmitude.


----------



## Mindful

*Middle East Monitor’s Israel hatefest love-in.*


----------



## Mindful

“Palestine will be free!"

Yes, free from the women oppressors and anti-Semitic Jew killers of Hamas who also execute their own, Palestinian, people by thowing them off the tops of tall buildings while their hands are tied behind their backs if they don’t follow Hamas’s strict religious and political doctrines.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian child abusers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be the Zionists, 438 Palestinian children abused in Zionist Israeli prisons and as for torture...
> Israeli torture of Palestinian children ‘increasing’
Click to expand...

That does make for lovely islamo-hasbara.


----------



## montelatici

Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.


Sure it can. Obviously you have never studied language arts.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it can. Obviously you have never studied language arts.
Click to expand...


Shalom Aleichem is similar to Salaam Aleikum.  (They both mean Welcome to You.)


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.



P F Tinmore said:


> Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation


*(COMMENT)*

Apartheid means an entirely different thing.  There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side.  In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Challenger

montelatici said:


> Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.


Hollow Hollie obviously looked up "taqiyya" found out what it really means and so stopped using it.


----------



## Challenger

RoccoR said:


> The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.



It's a cynical land grab, you know it and we know it, otherwise it would have been built on the Zionist side of the green line and be half as long as it is.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie obviously looked up "taqiyya" found out what it really means and so stopped using it.
Click to expand...

Ah. Name calling.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Apartheid means an entirely different thing.  There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side.  In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.

"In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself. 

 By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together

https://www.kairosresponse.org/south_africa_report_icahd_1.html


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Apartheid means an entirely different thing.  There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side.  In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.
> 
> "In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.
> 
> By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together
> 
> Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary
Click to expand...

Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​
They must have missed this.


Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Apartheid means an entirely different thing.  There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side.  In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.
> 
> "In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.
> 
> By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together
> 
> Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​
> They must have missed this.
> 
> 
> Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.
Click to expand...

Of course, the problem with these cut and paste YouTube videos is that they are often impossible to verify as to authenticity.

Otherwise, the _genocide™_ label adds that lovely melodrama you require. 

(snicker)


----------



## flacaltenn

*This thread is in danger of being closed. It EXISTS to discuss "who are the Palestinians?"  
That should make it obvious what is ON TOPIC and what is off. 

As long as it remains opened -- you are subject to being warned for OFF-TOPIC posts. 
EVEN IF -- you are responding to previous off-topic posts. 
Get course corrected and keep this thread on the topic.. 

Thanks..  *


----------



## montelatici

In keeping with the subject of the thread.  This is the most exhaustive DNA study of the Palestinian people undertaken by a neutral European university.


ABSTRACT: The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition. Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001). ã American Society for Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, 2001. Published by Elsevier Science Inc.

http://www.rense.com/general48/palestinians.pdf


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

This is some much nonsense.  Even at the opening of the Article you cite, it give the very same definition.

Remembering that Israel, as a state, has the right to territorial integrity *(Chapter I, Article 2(4) - UN Charter)*.  In the case of Israel, the international boundaries were established by the Peace Treaties for *Egypt* (1979) and *Jordan* (1994); as may have been modified by the *Oslo Accords*.

his Working Group aims to provide guidance to Member States on implementation of the legal, institutional and practical counter-terrorism-related border control measures required. It focuses in particular on the following areas: 

•  terrorist mobility; 
•  integrity and security of travel documents; 
•  illicit movement of cash and bearer negotiable instruments; 
•  movement and processing of goods; 
•  illicit movement of small arms, light weapons, ammunition, explosives and weapons of mass destruction; • •  aviation and maritime security; 
•  early-warning and alert systems; 
•  and control of open borders.​*SOURCE:* Home › Working Groups › Border Management and Law Enforcement relating to Counter-Terrorism
*Compendium of Border Control Instruments, Standards and Recommended Practices Related to Counter-Terrorism*​
Nearly every nation has Border Management and Border Controls, even the Between the US and Canada --- the US and Mexico.  The Barrier between Israel and the Palestinian State (1988) which manages and controls illegal movement across the border is no more "apartheid" than the the US and Mexico controls to stop illegal movement across the border.



montelatici said:


> The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid.



*(COMMENT)*

*Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.*
It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

*RESPONSE: * The non-preferred groups are:

•  non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,
•  other border crossers without valid approval, 
•  and terrorist threats.  Border-control systems as set out in Pillar II, paragraphs 4, 5, 7, 8, 13 to 16 and Pillar III, paragraphs 2, 4 and 11 to 13 of the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy (*A/RES/60/288*).​*Pillar 2: The state segregates the population into geographic areas based on identity.*
The favored identity receives preferential access to land, water, other resources and to government benefits and services while the non-preferred group is confined to ever- shrinking, non-contiguous, besieged territorial enclaves.

*RESPONSE:*  There are two aspects that have to be considered here.

•  Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.  (Chapter I - Article 2(7), UN Charter)
•  Both sides agreed that a Palestinian Authority (PA) would be established and assume governing responsibilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over a five-year period. Then, permanent status talks on the issues of borders, refugees, and Jerusalem would be held.

•  Area A --- Full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority;
•  Area B --- Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control;
•  Area C --- Full Israeli civil and security control...​*Pillar 3: The state establishes security laws and policies designed to suppress any opposition to the regime.* 
The system of domination is reinforced through assassinations; administrative detention; torture; cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment; and arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of the non-preferred group.

*RESPONSE: *  As is demonstrable in this discussion group, there are those pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that believe their is some sort of exemption, in international law, that permits Palestinians to harm Israel interests.  This is an attempt either designed (likely to provoke) or encourage a breach of the peace, or promote acts of aggression, which the Palestinians do on a daily basis.

IF there is a preferred group in this regard, THEN it is that segment of Palestinian citizenry that encourages the dissemination of information designed to instill a desire for peace.​
If there is apartheid pattern in the construction of the Security Barrier, then it is to contain the threat that organize instigates, assists or participates in terrorist acts in in Israel. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> This is some much nonsense.  Even at the opening of the Article you cite, it give the very same definition.
> 
> Remembering that Israel, as a state, has the right to territorial integrity *(Chapter I, Article 2(4) - UN Charter)*.  In the case of Israel, the international boundaries were established by the Peace Treaties for *Egypt* (1979) and *Jordan* (1994); as may have been modified by the *Oslo Accords*.
> his Working Group aims to provide guidance to Member States on implementation of the legal, institutional and practical counter-terrorism-related border control measures required. It focuses in particular on the following areas:
> 
> •  terrorist mobility;
> •  integrity and security of travel documents;
> •  illicit movement of cash and bearer negotiable instruments;
> •  movement and processing of goods;
> •  illicit movement of small arms, light weapons, ammunition, explosives and weapons of mass destruction; • •  aviation and maritime security;
> •  early-warning and alert systems;
> •  and control of open borders.​*SOURCE:* Home › Working Groups › Border Management and Law Enforcement relating to Counter-Terrorism
> *Compendium of Border Control Instruments, Standards and Recommended Practices Related to Counter-Terrorism*​Nearly every nation has Border Management and Border Controls, even the Between the US and Canada --- the US and Mexico.  The Barrier between Israel and the Palestinian State (1988) which manages and controls illegal movement across the border is no more "apartheid" than the the US and Mexico controls to stop illegal movement across the border.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.*
> It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.
> *RESPONSE: * The non-preferred groups are:
> 
> •  non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,
> •  other border crossers without valid approval,
> •  and terrorist threats.  Border-control systems as set out in Pillar II, paragraphs 4, 5, 7, 8, 13 to 16 and Pillar III, paragraphs 2, 4 and 11 to 13 of the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy (*A/RES/60/288*).​*Pillar 2: The state segregates the population into geographic areas based on identity.*
> The favored identity receives preferential access to land, water, other resources and to government benefits and services while the non-preferred group is confined to ever- shrinking, non-contiguous, besieged territorial enclaves.
> *RESPONSE:*  There are two aspects that have to be considered here.
> •  Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.  (Chapter I - Article 2(7), UN Charter)
> •  Both sides agreed that a Palestinian Authority (PA) would be established and assume governing responsibilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over a five-year period. Then, permanent status talks on the issues of borders, refugees, and Jerusalem would be held.
> 
> •  Area A --- Full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority;
> •  Area B --- Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control;
> •  Area C --- Full Israeli civil and security control...​*Pillar 3: The state establishes security laws and policies designed to suppress any opposition to the regime.*
> The system of domination is reinforced through assassinations; administrative detention; torture; cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment; and arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of the non-preferred group.
> 
> *RESPONSE: *  As is demonstrable in this discussion group, there are those pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that believe their is some sort of exemption, in international law, that permits Palestinians to harm Israel interests.  This is an attempt either designed (likely to provoke) or encourage a breach of the peace, or promote acts of aggression, which the Palestinians do on a daily basis.
> 
> IF there is a preferred group in this regard, THEN it is that segment of Palestinian citizenry that encourages the dissemination of information designed to instill a desire for peace.​
> If there is apartheid pattern in the construction of the Security Barrier, then it is to contain the threat that organize instigates, assists or participates in terrorist acts in in Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.*
It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

*RESPONSE: * The non-preferred groups are:
• non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,​
Here again you plow through on false premise.

*Citizens of Israel.​*​
Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem *shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.*

This principle was not new. Its content had already been suggested in earlier proposals concerning the Palestine problem. The principle was also consistent (despite the fact that it was embodied in a political document)* with international law relating to nationality at the time of territorial succession.*

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

It is not about Immigration or non citizens. It is about citizens kept from entering their own country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Apartheid means an entirely different thing.  There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side.  In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.
> 
> "In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.
> 
> By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together
> 
> Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​
> They must have missed this.
> 
> 
> Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, the problem with these cut and paste YouTube videos is that they are often impossible to verify as to authenticity.
> 
> Otherwise, the _genocide™_ label adds that lovely melodrama you require.
> 
> (snicker)
Click to expand...

The first video is by the Christian Peacekeeping Team which is a very reputable organization.

And it is an act of genocide. Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Apartheid means an entirely different thing.  There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side.  In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do.  There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.
> 
> "In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.
> 
> By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together
> 
> Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​
> They must have missed this.
> 
> 
> Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, the problem with these cut and paste YouTube videos is that they are often impossible to verify as to authenticity.
> 
> Otherwise, the _genocide™_ label adds that lovely melodrama you require.
> 
> (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The first video is by the Christian Peacekeeping Team which is a very reputable organization.
> 
> And it is an act of genocide. Look it up.
Click to expand...


I do wonder why you embarrass yourself with the goofy _genocide™ _flailing about. The "g" word adds nothing but a sense of desperation and hysteria to otherwise innocuous, silly YouTube videos.

If you want the proscription for _genocide_™ I'll be happy to direct you to the Hamas Charter which spells out in no uncertain terms the Islamist terrorist retrograde notion of islamo-fascism.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I find it kind-of interesting at how pro-Palestinians --- _who want to believe they are being deprived of something_ --- begin to lose the ability to differentiate between reality and fantasy.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.*
> It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.
> 
> *RESPONSE: * The non-preferred groups are:
> • non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Here again you plow through on false premise.
> 
> *Citizens of Israel.*
> 
> Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem *shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.*
> 
> This principle was not new. Its content had already been suggested in earlier proposals concerning the Palestine problem. The principle was also consistent (despite the fact that it was embodied in a political document)* with international law relating to nationality at the time of territorial succession.*
> 
> https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​
> It is not about Immigration or non citizens. It is about citizens kept from entering their own country.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I notice that many pro-Palestinian arguments somehow often drift back to the mentality of a time closer to the 19th Century than the 21st Century.

There are virtually no Arab Palestinians _(a very low probability)_, under the age ≈ 68 year old, that lived in the Mandate Era Palestine Territory _(the territory to which the Mandate Applied)_.

•  Life expectancy at birth:  West Bank _(People 65 years of age and over: 3.85%)
_
√  Total population: 75.91 years

∆  Male: 73.79 years
∆  female: 78.17 years (2015 est.)​•  Life expectancy at birth:  Gaza Strip _(People 65 years of age and over: 2.67%)_

√  Total population: 74.87 years

∆  Male: 73.11 years
∆  Female: 76.74 years (2015 est.)​One aspect of the fantasy is the separation from the reality that less than 7% of the Arab Palestinians could have been born in the territory recognized as the State of Israel.  So it is NOT about the Arab Palestinians being kept from entering their own country; but as originally stated.  

These people, are NOT representative of Arab Palestinians displaced in the conflict between 1946 and 1949; coming from a territory (Israel) outside the country of citizenship (Palestine Citizenship Order).  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I find it kind-of interesting at how pro-Palestinians --- _who want to believe they are being deprived of something_ --- begin to lose the ability to differentiate between reality and fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.*
> It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.
> 
> *RESPONSE: * The non-preferred groups are:
> • non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Here again you plow through on false premise.
> 
> *Citizens of Israel.*
> 
> Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem *shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.*
> 
> This principle was not new. Its content had already been suggested in earlier proposals concerning the Palestine problem. The principle was also consistent (despite the fact that it was embodied in a political document)* with international law relating to nationality at the time of territorial succession.*
> 
> https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​
> It is not about Immigration or non citizens. It is about citizens kept from entering their own country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that many pro-Palestinian arguments somehow often drift back to the mentality of a time closer to the 19th Century than the 21st Century.
> 
> There are virtually no Arab Palestinians _(a very low probability)_, under the age ≈ 68 year old, that lived in the Mandate Era Palestine Territory _(the territory to which the Mandate Applied)_.
> 
> •  Life expectancy at birth:  West Bank _(People 65 years of age and over: 3.85%)
> _
> √  Total population: 75.91 years
> 
> ∆  Male: 73.79 years
> ∆  female: 78.17 years (2015 est.)​•  Life expectancy at birth:  Gaza Strip _(People 65 years of age and over: 2.67%)_
> 
> √  Total population: 74.87 years
> 
> ∆  Male: 73.11 years
> ∆  Female: 76.74 years (2015 est.)​One aspect of the fantasy is the separation from the reality that less than 7% of the Arab Palestinians could have been born in the territory recognized as the State of Israel.  So it is NOT about the Arab Palestinians being kept from entering their own country; but as originally stated.
> 
> These people, are NOT representative of Arab Palestinians displaced in the conflict between 1946 and 1949; coming from a territory (Israel) outside the country of citizenship (Palestine Citizenship Order).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The right of return includes offspring. It always has.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

While it is often interpreted that way, it is NOT actually law.



P F Tinmore said:


> The right of return includes offspring. It always has.


*(COMMENT)*

The UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES IN THE NEAR EAST (UNRWA) developed a totally "independent criteria for who qualifies for services."  It is called the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instruction (CERI) _(dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto)_. 

The persons and groups of persons listed below are eligible to receive UNRWA’s services upon being registered in the Agency’s Registration System and obtaining an UNRWA Registration Card as proof of registration. These eligible persons fall into two groups: those who meet UNRWA’s criteria to be described as Palestine Refugees, and those who do not meet those criteria. ​It is a type of fraud designed to increase the number of applicants eligible for services, such that the UNRWA will be in operation forever.  The number of the survivors and descendents of the roughly 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes during Israel's War of Independence are believed to number up to 4.5 million.  There has no record in the 20th Century of any Refugee Program expanding 6 fold, as has the Palestinians.  That is because the underlying objective of a "Refugee Program" is to 

CERI Section III - A(1) is where the derivation notion of dependents originates:

Persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services. ​
The fraud has been told over and over against some many times many just have assumed it to be true.  But it is merely the criteria for services.  While many Palestinians point to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR - 1948) Article 13(2) that "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country." as the source of the "right to return;" the UDHR was never actually adopted into law.  And Article 13 is not about establishing a "right of return" for internally displaced people as a result of hostile activity.  Further Article 13 does not make any mention of descendants.  

In the budget year 2006-2007, the comparison between the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the UNRWA looked something like this.

•  *UNHCR is present in 116 countries, has 262 offices worldwide with 6,260 staff members – 5,400 of whom are in the field. We work with 624 partners to provide help and assistance to 32.9 million refugees, displaced and stateless people.

•  UNRWA’s vital humanitarian and human development activities depend on the work of some 28,000 locally-recruited staff, many of whom have spent decades in the service of their fellow Palestinian refugees.*​
Now in case it escaped you, it takes 5 times as many Palestinian staff to handle 6 time fewer Refugees that grew by 6 fold from the same event.  Or, put another way, the UNHCR can handle 5 times as many refugees with 6 times fewer people.  This is all about stirring-up the pro-Palestinian Movement and the Islamic radicals so that a fee can line their pockets, and that the vast majority of the future generations of Palestinians remain in a non-productive environment.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> While it is often interpreted that way, it is NOT actually law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right of return includes offspring. It always has.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES IN THE NEAR EAST (UNRWA) developed a totally "independent criteria for who qualifies for services."  It is called the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instruction (CERI) _(dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto)_.
> 
> The persons and groups of persons listed below are eligible to receive UNRWA’s services upon being registered in the Agency’s Registration System and obtaining an UNRWA Registration Card as proof of registration. These eligible persons fall into two groups: those who meet UNRWA’s criteria to be described as Palestine Refugees, and those who do not meet those criteria.​It is a type of fraud designed to increase the number of applicants eligible for services, such that the UNRWA will be in operation forever.  The number of the survivors and descendents of the roughly 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes during Israel's War of Independence are believed to number up to 4.5 million.  There has no record in the 20th Century of any Refugee Program expanding 6 fold, as has the Palestinians.  That is because the underlying objective of a "Refugee Program" is to
> 
> CERI Section III - A(1) is where the derivation notion of dependents originates:
> 
> Persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services.​
> The fraud has been told over and over against some many times many just have assumed it to be true.  But it is merely the criteria for services.  While many Palestinians point to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR - 1948) Article 13(2) that "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country." as the source of the "right to return;" the UDHR was never actually adopted into law.  And Article 13 is not about establishing a "right of return" for internally displaced people as a result of hostile activity.  Further Article 13 does not make any mention of descendants.
> 
> In the budget year 2006-2007, the comparison between the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the UNRWA looked something like this.
> 
> •  *UNHCR is present in 116 countries, has 262 offices worldwide with 6,260 staff members – 5,400 of whom are in the field. We work with 624 partners to provide help and assistance to 32.9 million refugees, displaced and stateless people.
> 
> •  UNRWA’s vital humanitarian and human development activities depend on the work of some 28,000 locally-recruited staff, many of whom have spent decades in the service of their fellow Palestinian refugees.*​
> Now in case it escaped you, it takes 5 times as many Palestinian staff to handle 6 time fewer Refugees that grew by 6 fold from the same event.  Or, put another way, the UNHCR can handle 5 times as many refugees with 6 times fewer people.  This is all about stirring-up the pro-Palestinian Movement and the Islamic radicals so that a fee can line their pockets, and that the vast majority of the future generations of Palestinians remain in a non-productive environment.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The reason that the refugees have increased so much is that the world has been dragging its feet on implementing return for many generations.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

No that would not be correct.  Of the original 700,000 Refugees, there are only about and estimated (probably much less) 70,000 still living.  The rest or refugees that never lived in Israel.  



P F Tinmore said:


> The reason that the refugees have increased so much is that the world has been dragging its feet on implementing return for many generations.


*(COMMENT)*

As is usual, the Arab Palestinians participate in the civil war from 1946 to 1948, and the engage in the was of independence.  The are military unsuccessful and political unable to achieve through diplomacy their objective and thus use force and the aid of the external influence brought by the Arab League.  

Now they complain that the "world has been dragging its feet" on implementing the "right of return."  (Unable to accept the consequences for their actions.)

Help me out here.  I'm confused.  Where is the Law of binding resolution of treaty?

•  Just what do you cite as an authority for the "right of return" which is binding?
•  Where is there a "binding" law that included descendants?
•  What criteria is cited for the applicability of the law?

•  Does it say "refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours?"
 •  Or does it include the Arabs of Palestine that cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising?
•  Does it include The Arabs of Palestine which made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God, and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition?​
Some day the Arab Palestinians will have to face-up to the mistakes they have made and quit whining to the world that they did not get this or that.  Either they can stand-up (Article 22 Style) or the can't.  At some point even the Arab League will tire of the parasitic demeanor the Palestinians have.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either.  But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either.  But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.


You're getting typically hysterical. What _genocide_ ™ was committed? Were the events of that _genocide_ ™ reported only in some cut and paste wiki article you found? 

What _ethnic cleansing_ ™ was performed? Can you cut and paste something from wiki that identifies the event?

It seems these "histerical" (as opposed to historical events) occurred only in some alternate islamo-reality you inhabit.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Paid stooges for the Shia Islamists.

*Iran pledges thousands of dollars for 
Palestinian terrorists
*
Iran pledges thousands of dollars for Palestinian terrorists


*Tehran, flush with cash from sanctions relief, will give slain attackers’ families $7,000, envoy says, and $30,000 to terrorists’ families whose homes Israel demolishes.*



A rather odd dynamic. Across the Islamist Middle East, the two largest franchises of the cult that Muhammud (swish) invented are usually committing islamicide against each other. 

For those not familiar with islamo-history, the Sunni and Shia despise each other. It's a blood feud that dates back to ancient islamo-times and tales in connection with leadership of the islamo-cult after the death of Muhammud (swish).  

While the two competing versions of Islamic terrorist cults will happily slaughter each other by asplodin' its competing adherents in bright orange fireballs of explosive charges, the Shia cultists have somehow convinced the Sunni to become paid "Dead Man Walkin'" in the service of the competing tribe.


----------



## Challenger

The Times of Israel says so, so it must be true.  Hamas are Sunnis aren't they?


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> The Times of Israel says so, so it must be true.  Hamas are Sunnis aren't they?


You're just desperate for my attention. That's why you spammed the thread instead of offering a relevant comment?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

A diseased collection of retrogrades pushing another generation of islamo-bots on humanity.


----------



## montelatici

Who are the Palestinians?  The people the Jewish children are taught to hate by retrograde ZioNazi racists.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Well, I'm not actually prepared to accept this.

√  West Bank Age structure _(2015 estimate)_:

•  Male 45,303
•  Female 62,007​√  Gaza Strip Age structure _(2015 estimate)_:


•  Male 20,667
•  Female 29,155​Not all Arab Palestinians represented in these numbers are actually UNRWA eligible; nor are they subject to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.​While the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) _(dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto )_ throws in the qualifying limited factor of "descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services;"  the UN system describes people who were "internally displaced" as --- internally displaced persons (IDPs) who are forced to flee their homes but remain within the territory of their own country. (*See* A/58/393 26 September 2003)  Whereas the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article 1. The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion. (*See* the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees Text of the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees Resolution 2198 (XXI) adopted by the UN General Assembly)

*REMEMBERING: * The Convention also does not apply to those persons called refugees under the protection or assistance UNRWA. Nor does the Convention apply to those refugees who have a status equivalent to nationals in their country of asylum.​


montelatici said:


> The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either.  But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.


*(COMMENT)*

Currently, there is a legitimate argument between factions of the Arab Palestinians as to the territorial meaning of the term --- or place called Palestine.  People like our friend P F Tinmore, those under the solemn oath issued by the 1948 Arab Higher Committee, the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), and even some elements within the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) claim that the entire expanse of the territory once subject to the administration of the 1922 Mandate _(less the Hashemite Kingdom)_ is Palestine and Arab Territory.  In fact the various factions cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom.

*•  IF* we use the criteria of our friend P F Tinmore and these various factions --- *THEN* --- the Palestinians are not really refugees at all, but misidentified IDPs.​What does this mean.  In the one case Article 13 of the UDHR (often cited as the source of the "Right of Return),  --- “Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country” --- is not only nonbinding, but not relevant or applicable to IDPs --- since by their standard, they never left "their country."   _(This has to do with the inability of the Arab Palestinian to come together in common cause and understanding.) _ The status of IDPs is the conditions being described by P F Tinmore and associates.  But, there is no real single and unified Palestinian conception of what the "right of return" (RoR) actually means in practical terms and what it would look like if implemented.  

In any event, the RoR is not tied to the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide.  _(This is too far outside the intent here; but I would be happy to discuss Arab Palestinian accusations.)_ The belief that some fraction of Arab Palestinians have the RoR --- to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors, is rather fanciful.    The concept of "land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors" is a very slippery slope for the Arab Palestinians to assume.  It is just as applicable to the Israelis as it would be to the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Roudy

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

This declaration by a true "Palestinian" should have some significance for a sincerely neutral observer. Indeed, there is no such a thing like a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage. The present-day "Palestinians" are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. They have their own Arab states from where they came into the Land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth. They were Jordanians (another recent British invention, as there has never been any people known as "Jordanians"), and after the Six-Day War in which Israel utterly defeated the coalition of nine Arab states and took legitimate possession of Judea and Samaria, the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians - something they did not know the day before. Of course, these people having a new identity had to build themselves a history, namely, had to steal some others' history, and the only way that the victims of the theft would not complain is if those victims do no longer exist. Therefore, the Palestinian leaders claimed two contradictory lineages from ancient peoples that inhabited in the Land of Israel: the Canaanites and the Philistines.


----------



## montelatici

Still peddling your crap propaganda in an attempt to convince ignorant and uneducated people, that have been bombarded by Zionist propaganda from early childhood that a people don't exist.  The Palestinians have existed since ancient times, that's what the inhabitants of Roman Palaestina Prima were called. 

Do you think by claiming that Palestinian Muslims and Christians don't exist makes it ok to kill thousands of them, mostly women and children, at a whack as your brethren routinely do every 2 years or so?

You are a pathological liar.

Even in modern times the Christian and Muslims of Palestine considered themselves the people of Palestine. 

Posted again to make it clear that you are a pathological liar and propagandist. 

From the UN Archives correspondence from 1922, when the Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) pleaded with the British to stop their colonization of their land by European Jews.

*"PALESTINE.*
CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB 
DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.


No. 1.​*The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.​*​
HOTEL CECIL,
London, W.C.,
_February 21st, _1922.

Sir,
We wish to express our thanks to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for his courtesy in allowing us to see the draft of a proposed Palestine Order in Council embodying a scheme of Government for Palestine, and to discuss the same in our capacity of representatives of the Arab People of Palestine.




We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—

*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews,* many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _*put a stop to all alien immigration *and grant the* People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day *the People of Palestine* assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.

We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Still peddling your crap propaganda in an attempt to convince ignorant and uneducated people, that have been bombarded by Zionist propaganda from early childhood that a people don't exist.  The Palestinians have existed since ancient times, that's what the inhabitants of Roman Palaestina Prima were called.
> 
> Do you think by claiming that Palestinian Muslims and Christians don't exist makes it ok to kill thousands of them, mostly women and children, at a whack as your brethren routinely do every 2 years or so?
> 
> You are a pathological liar.
> 
> Even in modern times the Christian and Muslims of Palestine considered themselves the people of Palestine.
> 
> Posted again to make it clear that you are a pathological liar and propagandist.
> 
> From the UN Archives correspondence from 1922, when the Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) pleaded with the British to stop their colonization of their land by European Jews.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
> DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
> 
> 
> No. 1.
> *The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.*​
> HOTEL CECIL,
> London, W.C.,
> _February 21st, _1922.
> 
> Sir,
> We wish to express our thanks to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for his courtesy in allowing us to see the draft of a proposed Palestine Order in Council embodying a scheme of Government for Palestine, and to discuss the same in our capacity of representatives of the Arab People of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—
> 
> *Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews,* many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _*put a stop to all alien immigration *and grant the* People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day *the People of Palestine* assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.
> 
> We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


You need to peddle your islamo- agitprop elsewhere. There has not been a nation of "Palestine". There was only a geographic area loosely defined as the territory of Palestine.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Well, I'm not actually prepared to accept this.
> 
> √  West Bank Age structure _(2015 estimate)_:
> 
> •  Male 45,303
> •  Female 62,007​√  Gaza Strip Age structure _(2015 estimate)_:
> 
> 
> •  Male 20,667
> •  Female 29,155​Not all Arab Palestinians represented in these numbers are actually UNRWA eligible; nor are they subject to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.​While the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) _(dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto )_ throws in the qualifying limited factor of "descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services;"  the UN system describes people who were "internally displaced" as --- internally displaced persons (IDPs) who are forced to flee their homes but remain within the territory of their own country. (*See* A/58/393 26 September 2003)  Whereas the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article 1. The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion. (*See* the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees Text of the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees Resolution 2198 (XXI) adopted by the UN General Assembly)
> 
> *REMEMBERING: * The Convention also does not apply to those persons called refugees under the protection or assistance UNRWA. Nor does the Convention apply to those refugees who have a status equivalent to nationals in their country of asylum.​
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either.  But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Currently, there is a legitimate argument between factions of the Arab Palestinians as to the territorial meaning of the term --- or place called Palestine.  People like our friend P F Tinmore, those under the solemn oath issued by the 1948 Arab Higher Committee, the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), and even some elements within the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) claim that the entire expanse of the territory once subject to the administration of the 1922 Mandate _(less the Hashemite Kingdom)_ is Palestine and Arab Territory.  In fact the various factions cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom.
> 
> *•  IF* we use the criteria of our friend P F Tinmore and these various factions --- *THEN* --- the Palestinians are not really refugees at all, but misidentified IDPs.​What does this mean.  In the one case Article 13 of the UDHR (often cited as the source of the "Right of Return),  --- “Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country” --- is not only nonbinding, but not relevant or applicable to IDPs --- since by their standard, they never left "their country."   _(This has to do with the inability of the Arab Palestinian to come together in common cause and understanding.) _ The status of IDPs is the conditions being described by P F Tinmore and associates.  But, there is no real single and unified Palestinian conception of what the "right of return" (RoR) actually means in practical terms and what it would look like if implemented.
> 
> In any event, the RoR is not tied to the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide.  _(This is too far outside the intent here; but I would be happy to discuss Arab Palestinian accusations.)_ The belief that some fraction of Arab Palestinians have the RoR --- to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors, is rather fanciful.    The concept of "land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors" is a very slippery slope for the Arab Palestinians to assume.  It is just as applicable to the Israelis as it would be to the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


It is extraordinary that you would try to imply that the claims of Muslims and Christians,  most of whom havinghave the keys to their homes and deeds to their land and property are fanciful.  There is also no slippery slope with respect to the Muslims and Christians of Palestine.  Their land and homes were stolen by European colonists.  Full stop.   There is no question about that.  You propagandizing does not change the basic fact.  That the homes and lands of the Muslims and Christians  homes and land were "redeemed" by the Jewish National Fund is what is fanciful.

What is often forgotten by rabid Christian Zionists is that almost half of the homes and land was stolen by the Jews was from Christians, they being the largest land owners per capita.

As far as eligibility for refugee status by UNRWA.  It is clear and simple.


"1. Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria 

These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services. The Agency accepts new applications from persons who wish to be registered as Palestine Refugees. Once they are registered with UNRWA, persons in this category are referred to as Registered Refugees or as Registered Palestine Refugees."

http://www.unrwa.org/sites/default/files/ceri_24_may_2006_final.pdf


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Well, I'm not actually prepared to accept this.
> 
> √  West Bank Age structure _(2015 estimate)_:
> 
> •  Male 45,303
> •  Female 62,007​√  Gaza Strip Age structure _(2015 estimate)_:
> 
> 
> •  Male 20,667
> •  Female 29,155​Not all Arab Palestinians represented in these numbers are actually UNRWA eligible; nor are they subject to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.​While the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) _(dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto )_ throws in the qualifying limited factor of "descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services;"  the UN system describes people who were "internally displaced" as --- internally displaced persons (IDPs) who are forced to flee their homes but remain within the territory of their own country. (*See* A/58/393 26 September 2003)  Whereas the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article 1. The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion. (*See* the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees Text of the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees Resolution 2198 (XXI) adopted by the UN General Assembly)
> 
> *REMEMBERING: * The Convention also does not apply to those persons called refugees under the protection or assistance UNRWA. Nor does the Convention apply to those refugees who have a status equivalent to nationals in their country of asylum.​
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either.  But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Currently, there is a legitimate argument between factions of the Arab Palestinians as to the territorial meaning of the term --- or place called Palestine.  People like our friend P F Tinmore, those under the solemn oath issued by the 1948 Arab Higher Committee, the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), and even some elements within the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) claim that the entire expanse of the territory once subject to the administration of the 1922 Mandate _(less the Hashemite Kingdom)_ is Palestine and Arab Territory.  In fact the various factions cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom.
> 
> *•  IF* we use the criteria of our friend P F Tinmore and these various factions --- *THEN* --- the Palestinians are not really refugees at all, but misidentified IDPs.​What does this mean.  In the one case Article 13 of the UDHR (often cited as the source of the "Right of Return),  --- “Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country” --- is not only nonbinding, but not relevant or applicable to IDPs --- since by their standard, they never left "their country."   _(This has to do with the inability of the Arab Palestinian to come together in common cause and understanding.) _ The status of IDPs is the conditions being described by P F Tinmore and associates.  But, there is no real single and unified Palestinian conception of what the "right of return" (RoR) actually means in practical terms and what it would look like if implemented.
> 
> In any event, the RoR is not tied to the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide.  _(This is too far outside the intent here; but I would be happy to discuss Arab Palestinian accusations.)_ The belief that some fraction of Arab Palestinians have the RoR --- to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors, is rather fanciful.    The concept of "land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors" is a very slippery slope for the Arab Palestinians to assume.  It is just as applicable to the Israelis as it would be to the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is extraordinary that you would try to imply that the claims of Muslims and Christians,  most of whom havinghave the keys to their homes and deeds to their land and property are fanciful.  There is also no slippery slope with respect to the Muslims and Christians of Palestine.  Their land and homes were stolen by European colonists.  Full stop.   There is no question about that.  You propagandizing does not change the basic fact.  That the homes and lands of the Muslims and Christians  homes and land were "redeemed" by the Jewish National Fund is what is fanciful.
> 
> What is often forgotten by rabid Christian Zionists is that almost half of the homes and land was stolen by the Jews was from Christians, they being the largest land owners per capita.
> 
> As far as eligibility for refugee status by UNRWA.  It is clear and simple.
> 
> 
> "1. Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria
> 
> These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services. The Agency accepts new applications from persons who wish to be registered as Palestine Refugees. Once they are registered with UNRWA, persons in this category are referred to as Registered Refugees or as Registered Palestine Refugees."
> 
> http://www.unrwa.org/sites/default/files/ceri_24_may_2006_final.pdf
Click to expand...


So recent Arab immigrants, who only lived in "Palestine" for a paltry 2 years, qualify as refugees.  How comic!


----------



## RoccoR

ForeverYoung436, montelatici, et al,

One More Time:

CERI is NOT a law.  It is a fraud perpetrated on the donors to skim money.  
CERI is NOT a law.  It is a registration instruction (how to) on applying for "SERVICES."
Registration in CERI does not make you a "refugee" by law.  Why, because it is not law.  Nowhere in the entire world are any of the other of the 40 Million Refugees categorized or defined in the same manner.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Still peddling your crap propaganda in an attempt to convince ignorant and uneducated people, that have been bombarded by Zionist propaganda from early childhood that a people don't exist.  The Palestinians have existed since ancient times, that's what the inhabitants of Roman Palaestina Prima were called.
> 
> Do you think by claiming that Palestinian Muslims and Christians don't exist makes it ok to kill thousands of them, mostly women and children, at a whack as your brethren routinely do every 2 years or so?
> 
> You are a pathological liar.
> 
> Even in modern times the Christian and Muslims of Palestine considered themselves the people of Palestine.
> 
> Posted again to make it clear that you are a pathological liar and propagandist.
> 
> From the UN Archives correspondence from 1922, when the Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) pleaded with the British to stop their colonization of their land by European Jews.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
> DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
> 
> 
> No. 1.
> *The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.*​
> HOTEL CECIL,
> London, W.C.,
> _February 21st, _1922.
> 
> Sir,
> We wish to express our thanks to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for his courtesy in allowing us to see the draft of a proposed Palestine Order in Council embodying a scheme of Government for Palestine, and to discuss the same in our capacity of representatives of the Arab People of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—
> 
> *Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews,* many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _*put a stop to all alien immigration *and grant the* People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day *the People of Palestine* assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.
> 
> We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


And yet for the last 700 years, the Ottomans who ruled the land and were Muslims themselves, did not recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people.  Go figure.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
Click to expand...






 The Palestinians did no such thing, that was the Egyptians who hoped to steal some Of Israel just like Jordan had done. Once the Jews had declared then the land was no longer free for everyone


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
Click to expand...







 WRONG as there was no state of Palestine in existence until 1988. Time for the UN to declare the statute of limitations is up on Palestine and the nation dissolved.


 And why do you always go for the islamonazi propaganda sites that are proven to be a pack of lies every time.



 The mandate of Palestine did not terminate it changed hands to the UN and is still in existence




 For those interested this link is to the site of  Issa Nakhleh   the
Senior Advisor UN Palestinian Delegation
The Arab Higher Committee for Palestine
(December 14, 1915 — March 29, 2003)


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rafeef Ziadah*
> 
> **








 Once more islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Amin Odeh*
> 
> **








 And yet more  islamonazi propaganda that only islamonazi goons believe


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except you forgot one very important part  The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine for the purpose of re-constituting the Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That conflicts with "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."?  The religious and civil rights of the Christians and Muslims were certainly prejudiced.
Click to expand...







 WRONG AGAIN freddy as it was in line with just that in 1923. Stop trying to use international laws of 1960 for what happened in 1923.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> NARD Band
> Maysa Daw - Vocal
> Raymond Haddad - Bass,music &lyrics
> Rami Nakhlee - Drums
> Ehab Drubi - Guitar







 And yet more islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> "by Aubra Salt - The Oregon Herald Saturday October 4, 2014   12:55 PM
> 
> More Than 1500 Palestinian Children Murdered By Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder why I'm publishing this story? You say it's too old? I don't think so. I may side with the Israel government generally, but what they did is murder and should be held totally responsible. We should accept no excuses for such slaughter.
> 
> The controlled mass media has been overwhelming in its coverage of the three murdered Israeli teens—but has completely suppressed the names and identities of the in excess of 1,500 Palestinian teens who have been murdered by Israeli state-sponsored terrorism since the year 2000."
> 
> Review: More Than 1500 Palestinian Children Murdered By Israel








 And the source for your link is the same old islamonazi propaganda sites used all the time.  Now who has declared officially that Israel has murdered children, other than lying islamonazi propagandists


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. Chickenfeed.
Click to expand...







 Video of Israeli response to islamomazi terrorism and illegal weapons


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Honey Thaljieh - Captain of Palestinian football team *
> 
> **







 AND ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...






 They have tried but the perpetrators of the war don't want to know


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the last act of war is waged by the Islamic terrorist 'Pal'istanians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but keep banging on that.
Click to expand...







 Who declared war in 1921, 1923, 1929, 1931, 1933, 1947 and every year since, why the islamonazis of which the Palestinians are members. Find a declaration of war by Israel against the Palestinians if you can ?


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Still peddling your crap propaganda in an attempt to convince ignorant and uneducated people, that have been bombarded by Zionist propaganda from early childhood that a people don't exist.  The Palestinians have existed since ancient times, that's what the inhabitants of Roman Palaestina Prima were called.
> 
> Do you think by claiming that Palestinian Muslims and Christians don't exist makes it ok to kill thousands of them, mostly women and children, at a whack as your brethren routinely do every 2 years or so?
> 
> You are a pathological liar.
> 
> Even in modern times the Christian and Muslims of Palestine considered themselves the people of Palestine.
> 
> Posted again to make it clear that you are a pathological liar and propagandist.
> 
> From the UN Archives correspondence from 1922, when the Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) pleaded with the British to stop their colonization of their land by European Jews.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
> DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
> 
> 
> No. 1.
> *The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.*​
> HOTEL CECIL,
> London, W.C.,
> _February 21st, _1922.
> 
> Sir,
> We wish to express our thanks to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for his courtesy in allowing us to see the draft of a proposed Palestine Order in Council embodying a scheme of Government for Palestine, and to discuss the same in our capacity of representatives of the Arab People of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—
> 
> *Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews,* many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _*put a stop to all alien immigration *and grant the* People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day *the People of Palestine* assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.
> 
> We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


Once again, repetitive misleading deceptive crapola:

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3

163. *The Arabs of Palestine *consider themselves as having a "natural" right to that country, although* they have not been in possession of it as a sovereign nation.*

166. The desire of the Arab people of Palestine to safeguard their national existence is a very natural desire. However, *Palestinian nationalism, as distinct from Arab nationalism, is itself a relatively new phenomenon, which appeared only after the division of the "Arab rectangle" by the settlement of the First World War.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So I listened to the first three minutes which is basically, "yes, they have the right to resist" and it lists a whole pile of specific things they have a right to resist.
> 
> Here's the thing.  If Palestinians have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the negation of their self-determination.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to live free from dominion of another peoples.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist people who deny them their fundamental human rights.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist those people who try to harm them or kill them.  If the Palestinians have the right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them SO TOO the Jewish people have a right to resist those people who are trying to ethnically cleanse them (and to put right the wrongs of those who have successfully ethnically cleansed them in the past).  If the Palestinians have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist inhumane treatment and collective punishment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist the theft of their land, or their natural resources and their political imprisonment.  SO TOO the Jewish people have the right to resist torture and assassination and assassination attempts.  If the Palestinians have the right to secure their own freedom SO TOO do the Jewish people.  If the Palestinians have the right to live free from foreign domination and alien subjugation SO TOO do the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as there was no state of Palestine in existence until 1988. Time for the UN to declare the statute of limitations is up on Palestine and the nation dissolved.
> 
> 
> And why do you always go for the islamonazi propaganda sites that are proven to be a pack of lies every time.
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate of Palestine did not terminate it changed hands to the UN and is still in existence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those interested this link is to the site of  Issa Nakhleh   the
> Senior Advisor UN Palestinian Delegation
> The Arab Higher Committee for Palestine
> (December 14, 1915 — March 29, 2003)
Click to expand...

Issa Nakhleh was a Christian.


----------



## montelatici

So, what is all this about there not being Palestinians until 1967?  Or there not being Palestinians at all?  You just posted:

*"which appeared only after the division of the "Arab rectangle" by the settlement of the First World War."*

Ok, have it your way.  The Muslim and Christian inhabitants of Palestine became Palestinians in 1918. They were the people of the Ottoman Sanjak of Jerusalem prior.  

You are such a dummy. 

By the way, from your link. (I would quite linking to it if I were you, it alone debunks most of your propaganda.)

It affirms that the British policy ran counter to the principles set forth by the Covenant of the League of Nations with respect to self-determination of the native inhabitants.

176. With regard to the principle of self-determination, although international recognition was extended to this principle at the end of the First World War and it was adhered to with regard to the other Arab territories, at the time of the creation of the "A" Mandates, it was not applied to Palestine, obviously because of the intention to make possible the creation of the Jewish National Home there. Actually, *it may well be said that the Jewish National Home and the sui generis Mandate for Palestine run counter to that principle.*


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> The concept of "land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors" is a very slippery slope for the Arab Palestinians to assume.  It is just as applicable to the Israelis as it would be to the Palestinians.



Thank you.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian welfare scammers?

Abbas confirms that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists  - PMW Bulletins

In the Norwegian minister's meeting with Abbas today, according to the Norwegian daily _Dagen_, when Abbas was confronted with PMW's charge that the PA was still paying salaries to terrorists in prison, Abbas did not deny that the PA still funds salary payments to prisoners. Rather he confirmed that the salaries are still being paid, when he assured the Norwegian Foreign Minister that these salaries are just not paid with Norwegian money.

*Norwegian Foreign Minister Brende:*
"'In the meeting, I emphasized that this support program in which financial payments are increased the [longer] the prisoners serve time [in prison], is unacceptable and should be abolished. I emphasized that with the political and economic challenges that Palestinians now face, it is in their own best interest to abolish this program,' says [FM] Brende.
Abbas responded by repeating assurances that Norwegian funds are not going to finance the program."
[_Dagen_ (Norway), May 4, 2016]


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare scammers?
> 
> Abbas confirms that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists  - PMW Bulletins
> 
> In the Norwegian minister's meeting with Abbas today, according to the Norwegian daily _Dagen_, when Abbas was confronted with PMW's charge that the PA was still paying salaries to terrorists in prison, Abbas did not deny that the PA still funds salary payments to prisoners. Rather he confirmed that the salaries are still being paid, when he assured the Norwegian Foreign Minister that these salaries are just not paid with Norwegian money.
> 
> *Norwegian Foreign Minister Brende:*
> "'In the meeting, I emphasized that this support program in which financial payments are increased the [longer] the prisoners serve time [in prison], is unacceptable and should be abolished. I emphasized that with the political and economic challenges that Palestinians now face, it is in their own best interest to abolish this program,' says [FM] Brende.
> Abbas responded by repeating assurances that Norwegian funds are not going to finance the program."
> [_Dagen_ (Norway), May 4, 2016]



Palestinian Media Watch. LOL


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare scammers?
> 
> Abbas confirms that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists  - PMW Bulletins
> 
> In the Norwegian minister's meeting with Abbas today, according to the Norwegian daily _Dagen_, when Abbas was confronted with PMW's charge that the PA was still paying salaries to terrorists in prison, Abbas did not deny that the PA still funds salary payments to prisoners. Rather he confirmed that the salaries are still being paid, when he assured the Norwegian Foreign Minister that these salaries are just not paid with Norwegian money.
> 
> *Norwegian Foreign Minister Brende:*
> "'In the meeting, I emphasized that this support program in which financial payments are increased the [longer] the prisoners serve time [in prison], is unacceptable and should be abolished. I emphasized that with the political and economic challenges that Palestinians now face, it is in their own best interest to abolish this program,' says [FM] Brende.
> Abbas responded by repeating assurances that Norwegian funds are not going to finance the program."
> [_Dagen_ (Norway), May 4, 2016]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch. LOL
Click to expand...

The angry boy. LOL


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare scammers?
> 
> Abbas confirms that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists  - PMW Bulletins
> 
> In the Norwegian minister's meeting with Abbas today, according to the Norwegian daily _Dagen_, when Abbas was confronted with PMW's charge that the PA was still paying salaries to terrorists in prison, Abbas did not deny that the PA still funds salary payments to prisoners. Rather he confirmed that the salaries are still being paid, when he assured the Norwegian Foreign Minister that these salaries are just not paid with Norwegian money.
> 
> *Norwegian Foreign Minister Brende:*
> "'In the meeting, I emphasized that this support program in which financial payments are increased the [longer] the prisoners serve time [in prison], is unacceptable and should be abolished. I emphasized that with the political and economic challenges that Palestinians now face, it is in their own best interest to abolish this program,' says [FM] Brende.
> Abbas responded by repeating assurances that Norwegian funds are not going to finance the program."
> [_Dagen_ (Norway), May 4, 2016]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The angry boy. LOL
Click to expand...


Hollow Hollie confuses derision with anger.  You are the poster child for the hilarious ZioNutter. We need posters like you.  Keep it up.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare scammers?
> 
> Abbas confirms that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists  - PMW Bulletins
> 
> In the Norwegian minister's meeting with Abbas today, according to the Norwegian daily _Dagen_, when Abbas was confronted with PMW's charge that the PA was still paying salaries to terrorists in prison, Abbas did not deny that the PA still funds salary payments to prisoners. Rather he confirmed that the salaries are still being paid, when he assured the Norwegian Foreign Minister that these salaries are just not paid with Norwegian money.
> 
> *Norwegian Foreign Minister Brende:*
> "'In the meeting, I emphasized that this support program in which financial payments are increased the [longer] the prisoners serve time [in prison], is unacceptable and should be abolished. I emphasized that with the political and economic challenges that Palestinians now face, it is in their own best interest to abolish this program,' says [FM] Brende.
> Abbas responded by repeating assurances that Norwegian funds are not going to finance the program."
> [_Dagen_ (Norway), May 4, 2016]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The angry boy. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie confuses derision with anger.  You are the poster child for the hilarious ZioNutter. We need posters like you.  Keep it up.
Click to expand...

I'll note you're not actually challenging the data I posted. You're left to spam the thread with name-calling. LOL


----------



## montelatici

Hollow Hollie is a term of endearment. Anything out of a Hasbara propaganda organ is false ad priori.  That's why you won't find the story in a normal news outlet.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollow Hollie is a term of endearment. Anything out of a Hasbara propaganda organ is false ad priori.  That's why you won't find the story in a normal news outlet.


What is a " normal news outlet"? LOL


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie is a term of endearment. Anything out of a Hasbara propaganda organ is false ad priori.  That's why you won't find the story in a normal news outlet.
> 
> 
> 
> What is a " normal news outlet"? LOL
Click to expand...


Certainly not a Hasbara site.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question you need to ask is who has stopped the Palestinians from exercising their free determination and how was this done. The silence will be deafening and the replies non existent
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948. Who is in there with guns preventing that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The legal position of Palestine under international law was that it was a provisionally independent State receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine but it was a dormant sovereignty exercised on behalf of the people of Palestine by the Mandatory power.
> 
> The British administration set up the Government of Palestine. Palestine had its own fixed boundaries, its own nationality and its own currency. The Government of Palestine entered into hundreds of agreements on behalf of the people of Palestine with various Mandated territories or sovereign governments.
> 
> Article 28 of the Mandate contemplated that at the termination of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass to the control of "the Government of Palestine." The termination of the Mandate on the 15th day of May, 1948, fully vested sovereignty over Palestine in the inhabitants of the country. Palestine became a sovereign, independent nation in fulfillment of Paragraph 4 of Article XXII of the Covenant of the League of Nations, in accordance with the terms of the Mandate, the British White Paper of 1922, the British White Paper of 1939 and according to the inalienable rights of the people of Palestine to self-determination and independence.
> 
> Chapter : Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG as there was no state of Palestine in existence until 1988. Time for the UN to declare the statute of limitations is up on Palestine and the nation dissolved.
> 
> 
> And why do you always go for the islamonazi propaganda sites that are proven to be a pack of lies every time.
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate of Palestine did not terminate it changed hands to the UN and is still in existence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those interested this link is to the site of  Issa Nakhleh   the
> Senior Advisor UN Palestinian Delegation
> The Arab Higher Committee for Palestine
> (December 14, 1915 — March 29, 2003)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Issa Nakhleh was a Christian.
Click to expand...







 Does not stop him from spouting islamonazi propaganda does it ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> So, what is all this about there not being Palestinians until 1967?  Or there not being Palestinians at all?  You just posted:
> 
> *"which appeared only after the division of the "Arab rectangle" by the settlement of the First World War."*
> 
> Ok, have it your way.  The Muslim and Christian inhabitants of Palestine became Palestinians in 1918. They were the people of the Ottoman Sanjak of Jerusalem prior.
> 
> You are such a dummy.
> 
> By the way, from your link. (I would quite linking to it if I were you, it alone debunks most of your propaganda.)
> 
> It affirms that the British policy ran counter to the principles set forth by the Covenant of the League of Nations with respect to self-determination of the native inhabitants.
> 
> 176. With regard to the principle of self-determination, although international recognition was extended to this principle at the end of the First World War and it was adhered to with regard to the other Arab territories, at the time of the creation of the "A" Mandates, it was not applied to Palestine, obviously because of the intention to make possible the creation of the Jewish National Home there. Actually, *it may well be said that the Jewish National Home and the sui generis Mandate for Palestine run counter to that principle.*








 You do realise that it is your link that this is lifted from freddy, making you rather silly


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare scammers?
> 
> Abbas confirms that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists  - PMW Bulletins
> 
> In the Norwegian minister's meeting with Abbas today, according to the Norwegian daily _Dagen_, when Abbas was confronted with PMW's charge that the PA was still paying salaries to terrorists in prison, Abbas did not deny that the PA still funds salary payments to prisoners. Rather he confirmed that the salaries are still being paid, when he assured the Norwegian Foreign Minister that these salaries are just not paid with Norwegian money.
> 
> *Norwegian Foreign Minister Brende:*
> "'In the meeting, I emphasized that this support program in which financial payments are increased the [longer] the prisoners serve time [in prison], is unacceptable and should be abolished. I emphasized that with the political and economic challenges that Palestinians now face, it is in their own best interest to abolish this program,' says [FM] Brende.
> Abbas responded by repeating assurances that Norwegian funds are not going to finance the program."
> [_Dagen_ (Norway), May 4, 2016]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch. LOL
Click to expand...







 More truthfull than your pallywood propaganda outlets that you use.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie is a term of endearment. Anything out of a Hasbara propaganda organ is false ad priori.  That's why you won't find the story in a normal news outlet.
> 
> 
> 
> What is a " normal news outlet"? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly not a Hasbara site.
Click to expand...





 So you wont be using them anymore will you, and you can list all this hasbara sites with the evidence to support your claims ?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie is a term of endearment. Anything out of a Hasbara propaganda organ is false ad priori.  That's why you won't find the story in a normal news outlet.
> 
> 
> 
> What is a " normal news outlet"? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly not a Hasbara site.
Click to expand...

I note with amusement you're unable to refute the data which leaves you to spam the thread with silly name-calling


----------



## montelatici

What data?  It is propaganda from a known Hasbara site.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> What data?  It is propaganda from a known Hasbara site.


As I noted, you're unable to refute the data which leaves you no option but your agonizing and hand-wringing.


----------



## montelatici

The "data" as you call it, is refuted ad priori, it is from a Hasbara site.  It leaves stuttering and stammering, but that's how it works.  When "data" from Electronic Intifada is used as a source, I wouldn't expect anyone to refute it.  It is assumed to be propaganda ad priori.  You see how it works Hollow Hollie.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The "data" as you call it, is refuted ad priori, it is from a Hasbara site.  It leaves stuttering and stammering, but that's how it works.  When "data" from Electronic Intifada is used as a source, I wouldn't expect anyone to refute it.  It is assumed to be propaganda ad priori.  You see how it works Hollow Hollie.


So you agree. Your inability to refute the data leaves you stuttering and mumbling. Thank you for that bit of honesty.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "data" as you call it, is refuted ad priori, it is from a Hasbara site.  It leaves stuttering and stammering, but that's how it works.  When "data" from Electronic Intifada is used as a source, I wouldn't expect anyone to refute it.  It is assumed to be propaganda ad priori.  You see how it works Hollow Hollie.
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree. Your inability to refute the data leaves you stuttering and mumbling. Thank you for that bit of honesty.
Click to expand...


You are apparently unable to understand even the most common latin expressions. But, you are Holly Hollie.  No, if you were able to read English and comprehend the meaning of the words, you would have concluded that I disagreed.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Hollow Hollie.  Now you put up a news cast by a Christian Zionist television network.  You sure know how to make a point.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollow Hollie.  Now you put up a news cast by a Christian Zionist television network.  You sure know how to make a point.


Xtian vs.  Xtian-zionist? LOL. 

Does Monty, the self-appointed Big Kahuna of xtianity make those policy pronouncements?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Can't tell what those Jews were doing to that Arab girl, but I guess you enjoyed it.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?



That guy interviewed was part of the Fatah coup against the Palestinian Authority. Of course he got busted.

And they lied about Hamas taking over the Gaza strip by force.

This is just a bullshit Israeli propaganda video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That guy interviewed was part of the Fatah coup against the Palestinian Authority. Of course he got busted.
> 
> And they lied about Hamas taking over the Gaza strip by force.
> 
> This is just a bullshit Israeli propaganda video.
Click to expand...

Ya' just gotta' love Islamic terrorist politics. 

Rule of bearded loons carrying automatic weapons, at war with the competing bearded loons, all of them scurrying for a piece of the UNRWA welfare fraud.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## montelatici

Who are the Palestinians.


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> Who are the Palestinians.


What a DISHONEST Clip MontelCheati. Actually that 13 seconds! (with blackout to hide the camera corps) is a Tiny fraction of a well known 10 minute FAILED Provocation video/Pallywood.
*Note how the little trained slut waits for the cameras to get in position.*
More versions here.
palestinian girl provocation - Google Search
`


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Who are the Palestinians.


Funny stuff. 

A_ Pallywood Production, Inc.™ _video starring the infamous Shirley Temper.


----------



## Hollie

Can't _Pallywood Productions Inc_.,*™* please buy Shirley Temper some new clothes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Who are the Palestinians.


Big Palestinian girl Vs. Israeli soldiers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Huwaida Arraf *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


Shirley Temper is Israel's bullshit propaganda name. No surprise since Israel is a bullshit state.

Here real name is *Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## Hollie

The continuing adventures of Shirley Temper brought to you by 
_Pallywood Productions Inc.™

_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The continuing adventures of Shirley Temper brought to you by
> _Pallywood Productions Inc.™
> 
> _


Pffft, another Israeli propaganda video.


----------



## TheGreatKing

#Israel is fighting for their God given land. They have always suffered injustices of the devils. All the colored people are devils and they have no right to live anywhere on the earth and they want Israel to give their land to them! That is #insanity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

TheGreatKing said:


> #Israel is fighting for their God given land. They have always suffered injustices of the devils. All the colored people are devils and they have no right to live anywhere on the earth and they want Israel to give their land to them! That is #insanity.


God gave them the land if they would follow His commandments. They didn't so they got the boot.


----------



## TheGreatKing

Humans and anybody else cannot judge Israel. Who gave them the authority? We all know that the land from Nile to Euphrates belongs to Israel and we should give that to them. And their opponents are demons, should we be supporting them? They are the ones who did 9/11. They are nobody's friends. And btw God is no longer angry with Israel and that is why the nation of Israel has been formed. #Israel, #insanity


----------



## P F Tinmore

TheGreatKing said:


> Humans and anybody else cannot judge Israel. Who gave them the authority? We all know that the land from Nile to Euphrates belongs to Israel and we should give that to them. And their opponents are demons, should we be supporting them? They are the ones who did 9/11. They are nobody's friends. And btw God is no longer angry with Israel and that is why the nation of Israel has been formed. #Israel, #insanity


The Palestinians did 9/11?

Link?


----------



## TheGreatKing

The Palestinians did 9/11?

Link?[/QUOTE]

Come on friend, don't feign ignorance, that too for the enemy. All the Arabs, Palestinians and all the colored people are together. They are devils, who also possessed the Nazis. They are responsible for all that is wrong with this world. You KNOW that I am right!


----------



## TheGreatKing

You find that funny. Let us talk for a while. What happened to the snake of the Genesis? What happened to her children who were supposed to become the enemies of Mankind? Why do colored people look colored? Why is it that colored people in the entire history have produced nothing at all? The only things they do are begging and stealing and creating other troubles. You know that I am saying the TRUTH and soon you will too.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> What data?  It is propaganda from a known Hasbara site.








Only known to you, and not to anyone else


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Majd Almashharawi and Rawan Abdullatif







Two Palestinian female engineers made what could be a breakthrough discovery. Majd Almashharawi and Rawan Abdullatif developed a new bricks-mixture, adding coal ashes to it.

According to a report by Aljazeera Arabic, the two engineers have been testing their new discovery for the last year and a half. The drive behind their project was the weakness of bricks used in Gaza to build facilities.

Rising from Ruins: Gaza's Engineers Use Ashes to Make Bricks - Palestine Chronicle


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> Majd Almashharawi and Rawan Abdullatif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Palestinian female engineers made what could be a breakthrough discovery. Majd Almashharawi and Rawan Abdullatif developed a new bricks-mixture, adding coal ashes to it.
> 
> According to a report by Aljazeera Arabic, the two engineers have been testing their new discovery for the last year and a half. The drive behind their project was the weakness of bricks used in Gaza to build facilities.
> 
> Rising from Ruins: Gaza's Engineers Use Ashes to Make Bricks - Palestine Chronicle








 So they have invented the "cinder block" that has been in existence for nearly a century. But typical islamonazi mentality to claim they invented something that is already in use, something they have done many times in the past.


----------



## TheGreatKing

They cannot wipe their butts without cheating and they will invent anything! Even a fallen leaf is better than the likes of them. It was created by God and it served its purpose. They are shits of the universe.


----------



## Mindful

The tragic death of three Palestinian siblings, killed in a fire that destroyed their house in the Gaza Strip on May 6, demonstrates yet again the depth to which Palestinian leaders will go to exploit their children for political purposes and narrow interests.

The three children from the Abu Hindi family -- Mohamed, 3 years old, his brother Nasser, 2 years old and their two-month infant sister Rahaf, died in a fire caused by candles that were being used due to the recurring power outages in the Gaza Strip.

The electricity crisis in the Gaza Strip is the direct result of the continued power struggle between the two Palestinian rival forces, Hamas and the Palestinian Authority (PA).

In recent months, the crisis has deepened, leaving large parts of the Gaza Strip without electricity for most of the day. Hamas blames the Palestinian Authority for the crisis because of its failure to cover the costs of the fuel needed to operate the power plants in the Gaza Strip. The PA has retorted by blaming Hamas's "corruption" and "incompetence."

The Abu Hindi family resides in the Shati refugee camp, where Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other leaders of the Islamist movement live. But unlike the senior Hamas leaders, the Abu Hindi family could not afford to purchase their own power generator to supply them with electricity during the power outages. Instead, the tragedy-stricken family, like most families in the Gaza Strip, resorted to the cheapest alternative lighting method -- candles.

On that horrific evening, the Abu Hindi's three children went to sleep while the candles were burning. Hours later, the charred bodies of the three siblings were taken from the house while it was still on fire and engulfed with smoke.

In any other country, this incident would have been reported as a routine tragedy -- one of the kind that could happen in any city such as New York, London or Paris.

Palestinian Leaders and Child Sacrifice



Sent from my iPad


----------



## Mindful

For the umpteenth time:

In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.

In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.

The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians". 

It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.

Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.

Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).

History of Palestine and Palestinians


----------



## montelatici

Mindful said:


> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians



Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:

1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.


*"AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*

*PALESTINE,*

*during the period*
*1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*

_"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/349B02280A930813052565E90048ED1C

2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers. 

A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:

_X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.

Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.

3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.

_"UN Resolution A 364

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._

16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
*
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3
Click to expand...





*A Population Boom *
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. 

*This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.* The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> *This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.* The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
Click to expand...


Why do you post lies from a Hasbara site?  Do you think anyone believes the propaganda versus the facts from official archives?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> A/364 of 3 September 1947
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> *This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.* The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you post lies from a Hasbara site?  Do you think anyone believes the propaganda versus the facts from official archives?
Click to expand...


Your flailing about does nothing to refute what I linked to. You mistake your own ignorance of the facts as a reason to reject the facts.


----------



## Mindful

The Arabs' real grievance against the Jews.

The Arabs' Real Grievance against the Jews


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3
Click to expand...







 As your cut and paste says


_*Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania*_
*

So why so you deny what your own link says ?*


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> A/364 of 3 September 1947
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> *This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.* The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you post lies from a Hasbara site?  Do you think anyone believes the propaganda versus the facts from official archives?
Click to expand...







 Because an islamonazi lie is in the UN archives it does not make it true. It is still a lie, and you cant alter facts.

 Winston Churchill stated   ... So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have  
crowded into the country and multiplied till their  
population has increased more than even all world Jewry  
could lift up the Jewish population. 


And the British Governor of the Sinai from 1922 to 1936 said

 it is very difficult to make a case out for the 
misery of the Arabs if at the same time their 
compatriots from adjoining states could not be 
kept from going in to share that misery.


 Even your Anglo-American committee said

 By 1945, the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry would report that, although the Jewish population had risen from 84,000 in 1922 to 554,000, and "three-fourths of this ... [Jewish] expansion was accounted for by immigration," the Arabs had increased "by a greater number" than the Jews.


----------



## Mindful

*Bill Clinton: 'I killed myself to give the Palestinians a state'*


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> A/364 of 3 September 1947
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> *This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.* The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you post lies from a Hasbara site?  Do you think anyone believes the propaganda versus the facts from official archives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because an islamonazi lie is in the UN archives it does not make it true. It is still a lie, and you cant alter facts.
> 
> Winston Churchill stated   ... So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have
> crowded into the country and multiplied till their
> population has increased more than even all world Jewry
> could lift up the Jewish population.
> 
> 
> And the British Governor of the Sinai from 1922 to 1936 said
> 
> it is very difficult to make a case out for the
> misery of the Arabs if at the same time their
> compatriots from adjoining states could not be
> kept from going in to share that misery.
> 
> 
> Even your Anglo-American committee said
> 
> By 1945, the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry would report that, although the Jewish population had risen from 84,000 in 1922 to 554,000, and "three-fourths of this ... [Jewish] expansion was accounted for by immigration," the Arabs had increased "by a greater number" than the Jews.
Click to expand...


The lengths he goes to, to promulgate his lies, distortions, and myths. Breathtaking.

I'm surprised he has the energy. As he is flogging a dead horse, trying to convince us. With the few usual exceptions.


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time:
> 
> In recent history the area called Palestine includes the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, the modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to the British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.
> 
> In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
> 
> The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
> 
> It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
> 
> Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
> 
> Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
> 
> History of Palestine and Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting lies from a propaganda site, now the facts:
> 
> 1. There were more Christians than Jews in Palestine in 1921 and the Jews were recent squatters.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> _"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*_
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> 2. Trans-Jordania was a separate territory, formerly  the south western part of the Arab Kingdom of Syria under the direct rule of Arab Kingdom of Syria which was invaded by the French and transferred to the French Mandate. The royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria (Hashemites) fled to Amman, the provincial capital. The people of Trans-Jordania were bedouin and considered the Hashemites their traditional rulers.
> 
> A separate section in the reports was reserved for Trans-Jordania to wit:
> 
> _X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year._
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
> 
> With 350,000 Bedouin, it had about half the population of Palestine.
> 
> 3. There was no migration of non-Jews to Palestine, the only migration to Palestine was that of the European Jews.
> 
> _"UN Resolution A 364
> 
> 15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration.* From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent._
> 
> 16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."
> *
> A/364 of 3 September 1947
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> *This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.* The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you post lies from a Hasbara site?  Do you think anyone believes the propaganda versus the facts from official archives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because an islamonazi lie is in the UN archives it does not make it true. It is still a lie, and you cant alter facts.
> 
> Winston Churchill stated   ... So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have
> crowded into the country and multiplied till their
> population has increased more than even all world Jewry
> could lift up the Jewish population.
> 
> 
> And the British Governor of the Sinai from 1922 to 1936 said
> 
> it is very difficult to make a case out for the
> misery of the Arabs if at the same time their
> compatriots from adjoining states could not be
> kept from going in to share that misery.
> 
> 
> Even your Anglo-American committee said
> 
> By 1945, the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry would report that, although the Jewish population had risen from 84,000 in 1922 to 554,000, and "three-fourths of this ... [Jewish] expansion was accounted for by immigration," the Arabs had increased "by a greater number" than the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The lengths he goes to, to promulgate his lies, distortions, and myths. Breathtaking.
> 
> I'm surprised he has the energy. As he is flogging a dead horse, trying to convince us. With the few usual exceptions.
Click to expand...






 He has me on ignore thinking that he is blocking my posts, when all he is doing is blocking what he sees


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*At the Seams: a Political History of Palestinian Embroidery *


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Rania Khalek


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Sara Saleh *

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *At the Seams: a Political History of Palestinian Embroidery *










 Islamonazi propaganda from the Palestine museum.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sara Saleh *
> 
> **









 Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sara Saleh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points
Click to expand...

Is that all you have? Sour grapes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ramzy Baroud *

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> Rania Khalek








Just more islamonazi talking points that don't answer the questions


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sara Saleh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you have? Sour grapes?
Click to expand...







 No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sara Saleh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you have? Sour grapes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address
Click to expand...

Like?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ramzy Baroud *
> 
> **








 Once again islamonazi talking points and propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sara Saleh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you have? Sour grapes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
Click to expand...







 Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sara Saleh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you have? Sour grapes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters
Click to expand...

Not true.

Next?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have islamonazi propaganda and islamionazi talking points
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have? Sour grapes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Next?
Click to expand...







 evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you have? Sour grapes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?
Click to expand...

You are the one who made the claims. It is up to you to prove your points.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No sour grapes just truth and fact that you have failed to address
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who made the claims. It is up to you to prove your points.
Click to expand...







 I have done, and so have other posters. You have only one arrow and that is the wording of a LoN treaty that needs to be manipulated to say what you believe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who made the claims. It is up to you to prove your points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done, and so have other posters. You have only one arrow and that is the wording of a LoN treaty that needs to be manipulated to say what you believe.
Click to expand...

I say what it says. You are the one who tries to bend it into something else.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr Haidar Eid*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Jennifer Jajeh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Harazeen *

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Speed Sisters*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the nation did not exist until 1988, that the LoN gave the land to the Jews in 1923.   That is for starters
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who made the claims. It is up to you to prove your points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done, and so have other posters. You have only one arrow and that is the wording of a LoN treaty that needs to be manipulated to say what you believe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I say what it says. You are the one who tries to bend it into something else.
Click to expand...







LIAR   as it clearly says they are the borders of the mandate of Palestine   to be known as Palestine,    There is no mention of any nation of Palestine in any treaties until 1988.



What is so hard to understand about that, even a 6 year old would manage to take that in


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Speed Sisters*









 Blonde haired, blue eyed    making them Europeans and not arab


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Next?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who made the claims. It is up to you to prove your points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done, and so have other posters. You have only one arrow and that is the wording of a LoN treaty that needs to be manipulated to say what you believe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I say what it says. You are the one who tries to bend it into something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR   as it clearly says they are the borders of the mandate of Palestine   to be known as Palestine,    There is no mention of any nation of Palestine in any treaties until 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> What is so hard to understand about that, even a 6 year old would manage to take that in
Click to expand...

Your flop is that the Mandate was not a place. It was a temporarily appointed administration for Palestine. It had no land or borders of its own. Palestine and its international borders continued to exist after the Mandate left Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Suheir Hammad*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Your flop is that the Mandate was not a place. It was a temporarily appointed administration for Palestine. It had no land or borders of its own. Palestine and its international borders continued to exist after the Mandate left Palestine.



Your flop is continuing to ideny that the nation within those borders is Israel and continuing to insist that those borders can't be changed by treaty.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> evidence other than your islamonazi lies and propaganda then ?
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who made the claims. It is up to you to prove your points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done, and so have other posters. You have only one arrow and that is the wording of a LoN treaty that needs to be manipulated to say what you believe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I say what it says. You are the one who tries to bend it into something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR   as it clearly says they are the borders of the mandate of Palestine   to be known as Palestine,    There is no mention of any nation of Palestine in any treaties until 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> What is so hard to understand about that, even a 6 year old would manage to take that in
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your flop is that the Mandate was not a place. It was a temporarily appointed administration for Palestine. It had no land or borders of its own. Palestine and its international borders continued to exist after the Mandate left Palestine.
Click to expand...






 And yours is that there were two mandates and you get confused between the two.   The LoN mandate of Palestine was a legal entity that had borders and rulers, the British mandate was the temporarily appointed administration that answered to the LoN MANDATE OF PALESTINE.   Correct the mandate of Palestine borders did exist after the British handed over the reigns, in fact the Mandate of Palestine is still in existence today as the west bank and gaza are still disputed territories. All because the arab muslims refuse to accept to exercise their right to free determination


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Laila El Haddad *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Karma Nabulsi *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*RAFEEF ZIADAH*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Noura Erakat


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Leila Farsakh*


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


This is in Afghanistan by the looks of the attire,are you sure you are accurate in your post Hollie?steven


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Right of Return Conference Day 2: Palestinian Politics and Models for Return *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Queen Rania*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


Take you piddly shit little suicide bombing and shove it up your ass.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
Click to expand...

Strange that people like you define mass murderers as heroes.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?

Psychopaths / Islamic misfits as heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> Psychopaths / Islamic misfits as heroes.


The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from colonization and brutal occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Free the disputed territories from the disease of Isamism


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Palestine Strings Performing Sagolandet q *

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Right of Return Conference Day 2: Palestinian Politics and Models for Return *
> 
> **








 No legal right of return, stomped on by the arab muslims as it would mean letting all the Jews and Christians back to take over the lands


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 2: Palestinian Politics and Models for Return *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No legal right of return, stomped on by the arab muslims as it would mean letting all the Jews and Christians back to take over the lands
Click to expand...

Who mentioned a religion for the right to return?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Wo are the Palestinians?

*Leila Abdelrazaq*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


It is cool that the governor of Ramallah is a woman. I heard that they are suppressed in "Muslim" countries.

And the mayor of Ramallah is a Christian woman. Imagine that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is cool that the governor of Ramallah is a woman. I heard that they are suppressed in "Muslim" countries.
> 
> And the mayor of Ramallah is a Christian woman. Imagine that.
Click to expand...

Imagine that. An Islamist woman in her required Fem-Tent attire extolling the virtues of teenage "splodeydopes". 

How cool is that.. in the putrid backwaters of an islamist hell hole.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?
*Hanine Hassan *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 2: Palestinian Politics and Models for Return *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No legal right of return, stomped on by the arab muslims as it would mean letting all the Jews and Christians back to take over the lands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who mentioned a religion for the right to return?
Click to expand...






 The arab muslims who did not want the job of protecting tens of millions of Jews and Christians taking back their old property and evicting the arab thieves.   Like they have done in the West bank


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Wo are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Abdelrazaq*








 cant decide if it is islamonazi propaganda or off topic deflection ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> *Hanine Hassan *
> 
> **








 So nothing else for you to post so you post of topic spam


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani speaks to the Alameda BOS for Palestine Cultural Day *

On May 24th, 2016, the Alameda County Board of Supervisors proclaimed May 15th, 2016, the 68th anniversary of the occupation of Palestine, as "Palestine Cultural Day." It is the third proclamation from the board of supervisors recognizing the cultural richness of Palestine and the Palestinian community.

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

El-Funoun Dance Troupe


----------



## montelatici

Israeli peace and love.


----------



## montelatici

Kind IDF entertain disabled man.


----------



## Hollie

Brace yourselves. Another of the Pal'istanian Death Cultists is rattling on about that lovely "we love death more than you love life" ™ islamo-slogan.  It's abundantly clear why see these patterns of islamic terrorism and the retrogression of a society that insists it must promote murder / suicide.

 It's a disease that will continue because these are not random acts perpetrated by insane criminals; they are deliberately orchestrated by well-organized, deeply religious, welfare-funded jslamic terrorist organizations.  
                                                                                             PalestinianOfficial. Palestinians Will Win Because They Love Death More Than Life

Palestinian Presidency Secretary General: Palestinians Will Win Because They Love Death More Than Life

Palestinian Official: Palestinians Will Win Because They Love Death More Than Life

￼

HAZEM BADER/AFP/Getty

by DEBORAH DANAN25 May 2016134

TEL AVIV – The Secretary-General of the Palestinian Presidency delivered a speech this week on behalf of President Mahmoud Abbas extolling the Palestinian people for “loving death more than life” and promising that the Israeli “tyrants” and “aggressors will end up in the trash bin of history.”


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## montelatici

He never said "“loving death more than life”. Deborah Danan, a Zionist Israeli journalist was careful to not to include it in the text of the article.  The usual propagandist editor included it in the headline.  Typical Zionist propaganda, gobbled up by Hollow Hollie.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> He never said "“loving death more than life”. Deborah Danan, a Zionist Israeli journalist was careful to not to include it in the text of the article.  The usual propagandist editor included it in the headline.  Typical Zionist propaganda, gobbled up by Hollow Hollie.


It's a typical slogan for your Death Cult heroes.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi: The case for BDS*


**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the screeching, pompous Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Who are the screeching, pompous Pal'istanian Death Cultists?



This is how the nice Jews treat Christians and Muslims.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the screeching, pompous Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how the nice Jews treat Christians and Muslims.
Click to expand...


Maybe they deserve it?


----------



## Hollie

The making of little Arab-Moslem Islamicmo-bots.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> The making of little Arab-Moslem Islamicmo-bots.



The making of little Israeli ZioNazi murderers.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The making of little Arab-Moslem Islamicmo-bots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The making of little Israeli ZioNazi murderers.
Click to expand...

Resistance to Islamic terrorism takes work.


----------



## Hollie

Look into the gaping maw of the disease called Islamism.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Look into the gaping maw of the disease called Islamism.



Do you want to continue this silliness which confirms that the Jews are just as disgusting as the Muslims?  As  a Christian I am willing to continue, no skin off my b__lls.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look into the gaping maw of the disease called Islamism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want to continue this silliness which confirms that the Jews are just as disgusting as the Muslims?  As  a Christian I am willing to continue, no skin off my b__lls.
Click to expand...

So, you admit that the xtians are just as disgusting as you Islamists. Good for you.


----------



## Hollie

Who were the Pal'istanian terrorists?


----------



## RoccoR

Hollie, et al,

That is a good question when discussing vantage points of an:

•  International Nature
•  European Nature
•  Specific to a particular country and their strategic interests​
Security Council resolution 1269 (1999) on the responsibility of the Security Council in the maintenance of international peace and security
Condemning all acts of terrorism, irrespective of motive, wherever and by whomever committed,

UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/49/60  (1994) Measures to eliminate international terrorism
Acts, methods and practices of terrorism constitute a grave violation of the purposes and principles of the United Nations, which may pose a threat to international peace and security, jeopardize friendly relations among States, hinder international cooperation and aim at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and the democratic bases of society;

Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or anyother nature that may be invoked to justify them;



Hollie said:


> Who were the Pal'istanian terrorists?


*(OBSERVATIONS)*

*Hamas*
*Palestine Islamic Jihad*
*Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade*
*Popular Resistance Committees (PRC)*
*Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine(DFLP)*
*Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP)*
*Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)*
*Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC)*
*Harakat al-Sabireen*
Not Including:

Historicals  Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Armed Wings   Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Lebanon-based  Asbat al-Ansar Sunni extremist group composed primarily of Palestinians​*(COMMENT)*

It depends on the time period.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Challenger

RoccoR said:


> It depends on the time period.



Quite right. Those organisations you cite are national liberation or resistance movements, considered as "terrorist" organisations. In another time these national liberation and resistance movements were also known as "terrorist" organisations:
Belgian Resistance
Armée secrète (AS)
Front de l'Indépendance (FI)
Mouvement National Belge (MNB)
Groupe G
Organisation Militaire Belge de Résistance (OMBR)
Partisans Armés (PA)
Witte Brigade
Mouvement National Royaliste (MNR-NKB)
Légion Belge
Armée Belge Reconstituée (ABR)
Comité de Défense des Juifs (CDJ)
Milices Patriotiques (MP-PM)
Service D
Les Affranchis
Insoumis
Kempische Legioen (KL)
Czech resistance movement
Danish resistance movement
Dutch resistance movement
Valkenburg resistance
French resistance movement
Maquis
Francs-tireurs et Partisans (FTP)
French Forces of the Interior (FFI)
Conseil National de la Résistance (CNR)
Bureau Central de Renseignements et d'Action (BCRA)
Free French Forces (FFL)
The Stijkel Group, a Dutch resistance movement, which mainly operated around the S-Gravenhage area.
Greek Resistance
List of Greek Resistance organizations
Cretan resistance
National Liberation Front (EAM) and the Greek People's Liberation Army (ELAS), EAM's guerrilla forces
National Republican Greek League (EDES)
National and Social Liberation (EKKA)
_Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa_ (ZOB, the Jewish Fighting Organisation, in Poland)
_Zydowski Zwiazek Walki_ (ZZW, the Jewish Fighting Union, in Poland)
Luxembourgish resistance during World War II
Norwegian resistance movement
_Milorg_
XU
Norwegian Independent Company 1 (Kompani Linge)
_Nortraship_
Osvald Group
Armia Krajowa (the Home Army—mainstream: Authoritarian/Western Democracy)
Cursed soldiers (anti-communist)
_Narodowe Siły Zbrojne_ (National Armed Forces - Anti-Nazi, Anti-Communist)
_Bataliony Chłopskie_ (Farmers' Battalions—mainstream, apolitical, stress on private property)
_Armia Ludowa_ (the Peoples' Army—Soviet Proxies)
_Gwardia Ludowa_ (the Peoples' Guard—Soviet Proxies)
_Gwardia Ludowa WRN_ (The Peoples' Guard Freedom Equailty Independence—mainstream; Polish Socialist Party's underground; progressive, anti—nazi and anti—Soviet; believed firmly in private property; believed in Marx's critique of the capitalist system, but rejected his solution)
_Leśni_ (Forest People—various)
Polish Secret State
Slovak resistance movement
Ukrainian Insurgent Army (anti-German, anti-Soviet and anti-Polish resistance movement)
Ukrainian People's Revolutionary Army (anti-German, anti-Soviet and anti-Polish resistance movement) 

It is in fact a matter of  time period and who is doing the labelling and why.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, et al,
> 
> That is a good question when discussing vantage points of an:
> 
> •  International Nature
> •  European Nature
> •  Specific to a particular country and their strategic interests​
> Security Council resolution 1269 (1999) on the responsibility of the Security Council in the maintenance of international peace and security
> Condemning all acts of terrorism, irrespective of motive, wherever and by whomever committed,
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/49/60  (1994) Measures to eliminate international terrorism
> Acts, methods and practices of terrorism constitute a grave violation of the purposes and principles of the United Nations, which may pose a threat to international peace and security, jeopardize friendly relations among States, hinder international cooperation and aim at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and the democratic bases of society;
> 
> Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or anyother nature that may be invoked to justify them;
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Pal'istanian terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> *Hamas*
> *Palestine Islamic Jihad*
> *Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade*
> *Popular Resistance Committees (PRC)*
> *Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine(DFLP)*
> *Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP)*
> *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)*
> *Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC)*
> *Harakat al-Sabireen*
> Not Including:
> 
> Historicals  Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
> Armed Wings   Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
> Lebanon-based  Asbat al-Ansar Sunni extremist group composed primarily of Palestinians​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> It depends on the time period.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/49/60​(1994) Measures to eliminate international terrorism​
Hamas does not operate outside its own borders. How is that international?

Hamas only attacks the occupation to liberate Palestine. They have the right to do that. How is that terrorism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the time period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite right. Those organisations you cite are national liberation or resistance movements, considered as "terrorist" organisations. In another time these national liberation and resistance movements were also known as "terrorist" organisations:
> Belgian Resistance
> Armée secrète (AS)
> Front de l'Indépendance (FI)
> Mouvement National Belge (MNB)
> Groupe G
> Organisation Militaire Belge de Résistance (OMBR)
> Partisans Armés (PA)
> Witte Brigade
> Mouvement National Royaliste (MNR-NKB)
> Légion Belge
> Armée Belge Reconstituée (ABR)
> Comité de Défense des Juifs (CDJ)
> Milices Patriotiques (MP-PM)
> Service D
> Les Affranchis
> Insoumis
> Kempische Legioen (KL)
> Czech resistance movement
> Danish resistance movement
> Dutch resistance movement
> Valkenburg resistance
> French resistance movement
> Maquis
> Francs-tireurs et Partisans (FTP)
> French Forces of the Interior (FFI)
> Conseil National de la Résistance (CNR)
> Bureau Central de Renseignements et d'Action (BCRA)
> Free French Forces (FFL)
> The Stijkel Group, a Dutch resistance movement, which mainly operated around the S-Gravenhage area.
> Greek Resistance
> List of Greek Resistance organizations
> Cretan resistance
> National Liberation Front (EAM) and the Greek People's Liberation Army (ELAS), EAM's guerrilla forces
> National Republican Greek League (EDES)
> National and Social Liberation (EKKA)
> _Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa_ (ZOB, the Jewish Fighting Organisation, in Poland)
> _Zydowski Zwiazek Walki_ (ZZW, the Jewish Fighting Union, in Poland)
> Luxembourgish resistance during World War II
> Norwegian resistance movement
> _Milorg_
> XU
> Norwegian Independent Company 1 (Kompani Linge)
> _Nortraship_
> Osvald Group
> Armia Krajowa (the Home Army—mainstream: Authoritarian/Western Democracy)
> Cursed soldiers (anti-communist)
> _Narodowe Siły Zbrojne_ (National Armed Forces - Anti-Nazi, Anti-Communist)
> _Bataliony Chłopskie_ (Farmers' Battalions—mainstream, apolitical, stress on private property)
> _Armia Ludowa_ (the Peoples' Army—Soviet Proxies)
> _Gwardia Ludowa_ (the Peoples' Guard—Soviet Proxies)
> _Gwardia Ludowa WRN_ (The Peoples' Guard Freedom Equailty Independence—mainstream; Polish Socialist Party's underground; progressive, anti—nazi and anti—Soviet; believed firmly in private property; believed in Marx's critique of the capitalist system, but rejected his solution)
> _Leśni_ (Forest People—various)
> Polish Secret State
> Slovak resistance movement
> Ukrainian Insurgent Army (anti-German, anti-Soviet and anti-Polish resistance movement)
> Ukrainian People's Revolutionary Army (anti-German, anti-Soviet and anti-Polish resistance movement)
> 
> It is in fact a matter of  time period and who is doing the labelling and why.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel's (and its lackeys) third grade name calling is nothing new.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> El-Funoun Dance Troupe








 More off topic deflection, what has this to do with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Israeli peace and love.








 I wonder how long it took you and the rest of team Palestine to find this, and now you will ignore the fact that it shows a handful of extremists that don't speak for all of Israel spouting their POV.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli peace and love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how long it took you and the rest of team Palestine to find this, and now you will ignore the fact that it shows a handful of extremists that don't speak for all of Israel spouting their POV.
Click to expand...

So, MEMRI and PMW both scrape the bottom of the barrel for whackadoodles to present as Representatives of Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli peace and love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how long it took you and the rest of team Palestine to find this, and now you will ignore the fact that it shows a handful of extremists that don't speak for all of Israel spouting their POV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, MEMRI and PMW both scrape the bottom of the barrel for whackadoodles to present as Representatives of Palestine.
Click to expand...





NO YOU DO AS THIS CAME FROM NIETHER SOURCE BUT FROM A NEO MARXIST EXTREMIST WEBSITE


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli peace and love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how long it took you and the rest of team Palestine to find this, and now you will ignore the fact that it shows a handful of extremists that don't speak for all of Israel spouting their POV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, MEMRI and PMW both scrape the bottom of the barrel for whackadoodles to present as Representatives of Palestine.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's the whackadoodles, Islamic terrorists and all around social misfits who _are_ the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Ghada Karmi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


Occupations always have problems with security.

It comes with the territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.

Comes with the Koran.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
Click to expand...

So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
Click to expand...

What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.

I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
Click to expand...

By attacking civilians?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
Click to expand...

Who is attacking civilians?

All of your whining has been addressed before.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
Click to expand...

Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
Click to expand...

That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall. 

Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dr. Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **








 So you are saying that Palestine has given up all the land that is not green, have they told the UN about these new borders yet ?

 Otherwise just islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...






 And dealt with under prevalent international laws. This is why so many Palestinians get killed in the process.

 This also comes with the territory


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
Click to expand...






 So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
Click to expand...






 What Israeli war crimes, show were they have been accused of war crimes by the ICC/ICJ,   You know like Palestine was just this year


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
Click to expand...





What civilians, you need to read the Geneva conventions to fully understand that they are not civilians. Anyone that assists hamas in their attacks on Israel are militia and valid targets, I wish just one nation had the gonads to stand up in the UN and spell this out


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
Click to expand...

The truth escapes you, my friend.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have problems with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What civilians, you need to read the Geneva conventions to fully understand that they are not civilians. Anyone that assists hamas in their attacks on Israel are militia and valid targets, I wish just one nation had the gonads to stand up in the UN and spell this out
Click to expand...

It is you who needs to read up. Only those Palestinians in open combat are combatants.

On the other hand, the nationals of an occupying power are not considered "civilians."


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
Click to expand...






 No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> 
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism comes with dead Islamics.
> 
> Comes with the Koran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are cheering Israel's war crimes. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What civilians, you need to read the Geneva conventions to fully understand that they are not civilians. Anyone that assists hamas in their attacks on Israel are militia and valid targets, I wish just one nation had the gonads to stand up in the UN and spell this out
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is you who needs to read up. Only those Palestinians in open combat are combatants.
> 
> On the other hand, the nationals of an occupying power are not considered "civilians."
Click to expand...






And that is termed open combat, so you need to do some serious reading.

 Try this for size

ICRC service

 Art. 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following
provisions: 

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.

Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention.

In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...






 As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered
Click to expand...

Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and *(2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*

https://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/380-600007?OpenDocument


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What war crimes? Its odd that you would suggest Israel responding to acts of war by Islamic terrorists is a war crime.
> 
> I'm cheering successes at confronting Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you demand an entitlement to committ acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences. 


The cure for your ailment already exists:





Indeed!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and *(2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/380-600007?OpenDocument
Click to expand...



Good answer: "disregarding points of detail".

This also has been addressed for you on multiple occasions and in multiple threads.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demand an entitlement to committ acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences.
> 
> 
> The cure for your ailment already exists:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed!
Click to expand...

More war crimes against civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Diana Buttu*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is attacking civilians?
> 
> All of your whining has been addressed before.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel mostly attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure. It has always been like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been addressed for you more times than I can recall.
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage acts of war from areas that put civilians at risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you constantly shovel the same shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demand an entitlement to committ acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences.
> 
> 
> The cure for your ailment already exists:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More war crimes against civilians.
Click to expand...


What war crimes?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?

Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber - PMW Bulletins
*
Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber*

*"To honor she who watered the ground
 with her pure blood"*



Ayyat Al-Akhras was a Fatah terrorist who carried out a suicide attack in a supermarket in the Kiryat Yovel neighborhood in Jerusalem in March 2002. Two people were murdered in the terror attack, and 28 were injured


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber*
> 
> *"To honor she who watered the ground
> with her pure blood"*
> 
> 
> 
> Ayyat Al-Akhras was a Fatah terrorist who carried out a suicide attack in a supermarket in the Kiryat Yovel neighborhood in Jerusalem in March 2002. Two people were murdered in the terror attack, and 28 were injured


More bullshit from PMS..er...PMW


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now telling the truth is shovelling shit is it, or is it you projecting again.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and *(2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*
> 
> ICRC service
Click to expand...






 Which applies to the occupied territory, and not their own country. So any attacks on Jews in the borders of Jewish Palestine is illegal.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber*
> 
> *"To honor she who watered the ground
> with her pure blood"*
> 
> 
> 
> Ayyat Al-Akhras was a Fatah terrorist who carried out a suicide attack in a supermarket in the Kiryat Yovel neighborhood in Jerusalem in March 2002. Two people were murdered in the terror attack, and 28 were injured
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from PMS..er...PMW
Click to expand...







 Take the war to those parts of Palestine not inhabited and no children should be injured. Use civilian areas illegally to wage war and you will see dead children. Again we need a nation to stand up in the UN and say these words, making it clear the world will no longer tolerate Palestinian tactics


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth escapes you, my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and *(2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which applies to the occupied territory, and not their own country. So any attacks on Jews in the borders of Jewish Palestine is illegal.
Click to expand...

Stupid! 

Show me a map of Israel that does not use the 1949 armistice lines that are specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber*
> 
> *"To honor she who watered the ground
> with her pure blood"*
> 
> 
> 
> Ayyat Al-Akhras was a Fatah terrorist who carried out a suicide attack in a supermarket in the Kiryat Yovel neighborhood in Jerusalem in March 2002. Two people were murdered in the terror attack, and 28 were injured
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from PMS..er...PMW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take the war to those parts of Palestine not inhabited and no children should be injured. Use civilian areas illegally to wage war and you will see dead children. Again we need a nation to stand up in the UN and say these words, making it clear the world will no longer tolerate Palestinian tactics
Click to expand...

It is Israel that wages its war in Palestinian neighborhoods.


----------



## P F Tinmore

FYI


----------



## Hollie

FYI. 

The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.



You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
Click to expand...

Such silly melodrama. 

Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
Click to expand...


No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.
Click to expand...

You're "neutral".

Funny stuff. Your slogans and cliche's are even more comical.

Back to your silly melodrama.


----------



## Hollie

who _were_ the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


Cued in line for the virgins......


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're "neutral".
> 
> Funny stuff. Your slogans and cliche's are even more comical.
> 
> Back to your silly melodrama.
Click to expand...


Of course I am.  I want Jews, Muslims and Christians to be able to live peacefully in a secular democratic state. You want to kill all the non-Jews.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're "neutral".
> 
> Funny stuff. Your slogans and cliche's are even more comical.
> 
> Back to your silly melodrama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course I am.  I want Jews, Muslims and Christians to be able to live peacefully in secular democratic state. You want to kill all the non-Jews.
Click to expand...


You're obsessing over me, sweetie. You missed it, but this thread is not about your need to stalk me.

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're "neutral".
> 
> Funny stuff. Your slogans and cliche's are even more comical.
> 
> Back to your silly melodrama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course I am.  I want Jews, Muslims and Christians to be able to live peacefully in secular democratic state. You want to kill all the non-Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're obsessing over me, sweetie. You missed it, but this thread is not about your need to stalk me.
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
Click to expand...


Don't flatter yourself, you are the stalker.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc..


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc..



Or today's Nazis, the Israeli Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc..


Are you still pimping Israel's terrorism bullshit?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and *(2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which applies to the occupied territory, and not their own country. So any attacks on Jews in the borders of Jewish Palestine is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid!
> 
> Show me a map of Israel that does not use the 1949 armistice lines that are specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
Click to expand...






Why what will that prove other than you nit pick and get it wrong, the negotiated borders of Israel happen to be along the armistice lines making them the valid international borders  . How about a map of Palestine showing its borders that are not the borders of the mandate of palestine


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Diana Buttu*
> 
> **








 Now they wish they hadn't as the ICC has them in their sights for war crimes committed in 2014 on.


 They never miss an opportunity to get it wrong do they, and shoot themselves in the foot


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?
> 
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah event today to "honor" suicide bomber*
> 
> *"To honor she who watered the ground
> with her pure blood"*
> 
> 
> 
> Ayyat Al-Akhras was a Fatah terrorist who carried out a suicide attack in a supermarket in the Kiryat Yovel neighborhood in Jerusalem in March 2002. Two people were murdered in the terror attack, and 28 were injured
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from PMS..er...PMW
Click to expand...






What war on children.   How about you show this alleged war so we can destroy you line by line


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it escapes you, as proven by your inability to accept it.   Do international laws work in Israel's favour when they result in the Palestinians being punished. A simple yes or no answer  ?
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I suspected you don't want international laws to work for Israel, yet want them to work for the Palestinians even if it means Jews will be murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and *(2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*
> 
> ICRC service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which applies to the occupied territory, and not their own country. So any attacks on Jews in the borders of Jewish Palestine is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid!
> 
> Show me a map of Israel that does not use the 1949 armistice lines that are specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
Click to expand...





ANSWERED


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> Competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or today's Nazis, the Israeli Jews.
Click to expand...






Ex Jew unless you accept Jew as a race?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
Click to expand...







 Do you only like seeing Jews get fired on, is that your fetish ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.
Click to expand...






 Move them out of the war zone and they wont get killed, it is part of the Geneva conventions after all.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.
> 
> The deconstruction of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a murderous little turd, aren't you. Behind a computer, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such silly melodrama.
> 
> Why should a nation under attack by Islamic terrorists not resist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No drama, just intrigued by psychopaths like you.  You do enjoy contemplating the murder of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children.  You are a true heir to the Nazis.  Keep it, it allows us neutrals to understand the ZioNazi mindset.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're "neutral".
> 
> Funny stuff. Your slogans and cliche's are even more comical.
> 
> Back to your silly melodrama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course I am.  I want Jews, Muslims and Christians to be able to live peacefully in a secular democratic state. You want to kill all the non-Jews.
Click to expand...






 LIAR  you want what the Catholics have wanted for the last 2000 years, to see the Jews wiped out. That is why they were Hitlers allies


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>






Once the Palestinians stop breaking International laws and committing war crimes then no more children or civilians will get killed. But if a qassam fell half a mile from your location you would have a fit and need new trousers, that is how dangerous they are. Just look at the devastation when Israel hits a weapons dump


----------



## Mindful

If the PLO and other groups were only about liberating "Palestine", then why the anti semitism?

The Background Clue To The PLO’s Hatred Of Jews


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinians hatred of Jews may be  related to the fact that the Jews came as colonists, ethnically cleansed and dispossessed them.  Seems a normal reaction.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians hatred of Jews may be  related to the fact that the Jews came as colonists, ethnically cleansed and dispossessed them.  Seems a normal reaction.


The Arab-Moslem hatred of Jews derives from the hate and war manual inspired by a desert Arab warlord. 

The Arab-Moslem invaders / colonists ethnically cleansed and dispossessed many native inhabitants from entire swaths of the Middle East.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians hatred of Jews may be  related to the fact that the Jews came as colonists, ethnically cleansed and dispossessed them.  Seems a normal reaction.







 And yet no actual evidence of this taking place, even in the manipulated and altered links. Why cant you just admit they hate them for the same reason you catholics do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

We Teach Life, Sir:
 A music school in Gaza helps children with phenomenal ear for music


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

We teach death in the act of mass murder / suicide as the highest achievement for the retrograde Moslem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?








 Very Western European looking don't you think, hardly Arabic in looks


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> We Teach Life, Sir:
> A music school in Gaza helps children with phenomenal ear for music








 AND ? ? ?      Just what does this prove ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?








 Same old, same old islamonazi propaganda and talking points


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


Sleepless in Gaza'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan


Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
Click to expand...

...... or hiding in uniforms as your muhammedan heroes hike-up their man dresses and use women and children as human shields. 

Better weapons, better tactics and better training employed by the better Israeli military. 

Thanks. Your waging _a gee-had of none_ from behind a keyboard is comical.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...... or hiding in uniforms as your muhammedan heroes hike-up their man dresses and use women and children as human shields.
> 
> Better weapons, better tactics and better training employed by the better Israeli military.
> 
> Thanks. Your waging _a gee-had of none_ from behind a keyboard is comical.
Click to expand...

And as soon as Israel went in on the ground to fight man to man they got their ass handed to them


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...... or hiding in uniforms as your muhammedan heroes hike-up their man dresses and use women and children as human shields.
> 
> Better weapons, better tactics and better training employed by the better Israeli military.
> 
> Thanks. Your waging _a gee-had of none_ from behind a keyboard is comical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And as soon as Israel went in on the ground to fight man to man they got their ass handed to them
Click to expand...

You're so silly. Your keyboard gee-had is a hoot.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
Click to expand...





 Unlike the Palestinian hero's that hide I'm schools, mosques, hospitals, tunnels, behind children, behind women and wearing womens clothes.


 But if the palestinian cowards did not fire illegal rockets from civilian areas then the IDF would not need to drop bombs from planes, fire shells from tanks and demolish military structures with bulldozers. So why do you do all this tinny, after all you can only lose.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...... or hiding in uniforms as your muhammedan heroes hike-up their man dresses and use women and children as human shields.
> 
> Better weapons, better tactics and better training employed by the better Israeli military.
> 
> Thanks. Your waging _a gee-had of none_ from behind a keyboard is comical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And as soon as Israel went in on the ground to fight man to man they got their ass handed to them
Click to expand...






LINKS ?     As the results show otherwise when the IDF eliminated 2000 plus terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...... or hiding in uniforms as your muhammedan heroes hike-up their man dresses and use women and children as human shields.
> 
> Better weapons, better tactics and better training employed by the better Israeli military.
> 
> Thanks. Your waging _a gee-had of none_ from behind a keyboard is comical.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?



Trash removal from Gaza'istan


----------



## montelatici

Hollow Hollie gloating over the murder of non Jewish children.  Hollie, pride of the Jews.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollow Hollie gloating over the murder of non Jewish children.  Hollie, pride of the Jews.


You poor, dear. It's you doing the Pom Pom waving as it placates your Jew hatreds.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie gloating over the murder of non Jewish children.  Hollie, pride of the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> You poor, dear. It's you doing the Pom Pom waving as it placates your Jew hatreds.
Click to expand...


You are doing the pom pom waving watching videos of Israelis murdering children.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollow Hollie gloating over the murder of non Jewish children.  Hollie, pride of the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> You poor, dear. It's you doing the Pom Pom waving as it placates your Jew hatreds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are doing the pom pom waving watching videos of Israelis murdering children.
Click to expand...

What videos would those be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> Trash removal from Gaza'istan


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> Trash removal from Gaza'istan
Click to expand...



Talking to Islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> Trash removal from Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking to Islamic terrorists
Click to expand...

You can always tell an Israel supporter.

They cheer killing and destruction.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> Trash removal from Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking to Islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can always tell an Israel supporter.
> 
> They cheer killing and destruction.
Click to expand...

I can only give you a 2/10 for goofy melodrama.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Leanne Mohamad*

**
*Then what happened?*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> Sleepless in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Candy asses attack while hiding in airplanes. Or hiding in tanks. Or hiding in armored bulldozers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...... or hiding in uniforms as your muhammedan heroes hike-up their man dresses and use women and children as human shields.
> 
> Better weapons, better tactics and better training employed by the better Israeli military.
> 
> Thanks. Your waging _a gee-had of none_ from behind a keyboard is comical.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...







 Not propaganda at all it is a fact. Israel would not need to park a tank in the west bank if the Palestinian terrorists did not keep on attacking. That child could be fitted with a suicide vest to kill of maim Israelis for all this picture shows, or he could be a front for another person armed with an anti tank weapon


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollow Hollie gloating over the murder of non Jewish children.  Hollie, pride of the Jews.







 What murder, you engage in violence you expect to be the recipient of violence.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> Trash removal from Gaza'istan
Click to expand...







 Just more of your islamonazi propaganda and Palestinian talking points.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leanne Mohamad*
> 
> **
> *Then what happened?*
> 
> **








Islamonazi start very young now, I wonder if she has been sold to some old man yet ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> Trash removal from Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking to Islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can always tell an Israel supporter.
> 
> They cheer killing and destruction.
Click to expand...






Strange as most of that comes from team Palestine when  Jew is shot or stabbed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Welcome to the Death Cult called _Islamic Terrorism'istan


_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gaza'istan under the occupation of Islamic terrorists


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>









 How about a synopsis then so we don't waste our time on islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>







 Just your usual propaganda and Palestinian talking points. How about something that is real and fact for a change.


----------



## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> Gaza'istan under the occupation of Islamic terrorists







 A year old video that shows what happens when you fire illegal weapons, you get killed in the rersponces


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hamas Hitler Youth Corps


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist welfare fraud


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist Death Cult festival


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SAM BAHOUR - Friends of Sabeel and the Chicago Faith Coalition on Middle East Policy*


----------



## Hollie

Friends of the Death Cult Pal'istanians


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mariam Barghouti*

Israel is a shit state for sure.

**


----------



## Hollie

Justice for Pal'istanians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Justice for Pal'istanians


Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
Click to expand...


I thought that would launch you into another of your silly conspiracy theory tirades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought that would launch you into another of your silly conspiracy theory tirades.
Click to expand...

It was in the news. You must have missed it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought that would launch you into another of your silly conspiracy theory tirades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in the news. You must have missed it.
Click to expand...


Thought so. 

Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers. What a waste.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
Click to expand...







 No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought that would launch you into another of your silly conspiracy theory tirades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in the news. You must have missed it.
Click to expand...







 As was the result of the elections, and the attempts by hamas to take over as dictators in the west bank and gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
Click to expand...

The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pales...Government_of_March_2007#cite_note-arabnews-1
On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]

On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.

Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...







 AND ? ? ? ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
Click to expand...

I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
Click to expand...

And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
Click to expand...

Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
Click to expand...

How does that address my comment?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that address my comment?
Click to expand...

How did your comment address my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Sleepless Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Sleepless Gaza


Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice for Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
Click to expand...






 It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
Click to expand...






 No the evidence freely available has already set in the stone the reasons why, and you are just too dumb to admit to them. o propaganda that is left to you and your fellow islamonazi morons.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
Click to expand...






 Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the members of the coup against the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.
Click to expand...

Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.

So, what was the purpose of the split?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sleepless Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?
Click to expand...





 Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No the evidence freely available has already set in the stone the reasons why, and you are just too dumb to admit to them. o propaganda that is left to you and your fellow islamonazi morons.
Click to expand...

Could you share that with us?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sleepless Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one of the elected leaders that hamas don't want to share power with, it was not a 100% victory more like a 55/45 split so 45% of the Palestinian authority were not hamas
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> So, what was the purpose of the split?
Click to expand...






Power and control of all the money of course. When $10 billion is passing through your hands the chances of a few $million sticking to their greasy palms is a given. They are just following the example of Arafat the fraud from Egypt and lining their own nest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?
Click to expand...

Why is it that nobody in the world has taken any Palestinians to court.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No the evidence freely available has already set in the stone the reasons why, and you are just too dumb to admit to them. o propaganda that is left to you and your fellow islamonazi morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you share that with us?
Click to expand...







 What that you and your fellow islamomorons are the purveyors of most propaganda, just look at your posts that push the islamionazi propaganda every day


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sleepless Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






 Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007* (Arabic: *المجلس الفلسطيني لآذار 17 2007*‎‎) was a Palestinian Authority unity government from March to June 2007, headed by Ismail Haniyeh, the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
> On 8 February 2007, negotiations in Mecca brokered by Saudi Arabia produced the Fatah–Hamas Mecca Agreement, an agreement to form a Palestinian national unity government.[4] The agreement was signed by Mahmoud Abbas on behalf of Fatah and by Khaled Mashal on behalf of Hamas.[5] The agreement also contained a "letter of commission" from Abbas to Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, calling on Haniyeh as premier of the next government to achieve Palestinian national goals as approved by the Palestine National Council, the clauses of the Basic Law and the National Reconciliation Document (the Prisoners' Document) as well as the decisions of the Arab summit.[4]
> 
> On 17 March, Ismail Haniyeh presented his new national unity government before the Palestinian Legislative Council.[6] The Parliament approved the government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. The 25 ministers were sworn in by President Mahmoud Abbas at the ceremony, which was held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> So, what was the purpose of the split?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Power and control of all the money of course. When $10 billion is passing through your hands the chances of a few $million sticking to their greasy palms is a given. They are just following the example of Arafat the fraud from Egypt and lining their own nest.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Arafat, Abbas, and that crowd are the foreign appointed oligarchs of Palestine. They get paid to sell the Palestinians down the river.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'll have to advise that there is no unity among competing Islamo-fascist / Islamist terrorist groups. All of them will slit the throats of the competing Islamic terrorist group if it is their interest.
> 
> 
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that nobody in the world has taken any Palestinians to court.
Click to expand...







 Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.

 But ever thought that them being destitute the court could not give them any other punishment than prison, and they would have to build a lot of prisons to house the Palestinians involved.  In this case the P.A. withdrew its complaint as it could not afford the bad propaganda that would have been generated. Having say 1000 Palestinians branded terrorists in law and the regime being terrorist would lose them 80% of their current support.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND ? ? ? ?
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> So, what was the purpose of the split?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Power and control of all the money of course. When $10 billion is passing through your hands the chances of a few $million sticking to their greasy palms is a given. They are just following the example of Arafat the fraud from Egypt and lining their own nest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Arafat, Abbas, and that crowd are the foreign appointed oligarchs of Palestine. They get paid to sell the Palestinians down the river.
Click to expand...







Proving that the Palestinians are incapable of self determination and the ability to stand on their feet. So they are not ready to be a state without support from outside. The Palestinians never objected to the people being put in charge, so they must agree with them in principle


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>







Islamonazi talking points that is just propaganda and has no basis in truth or reality


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Israeli propaganda will not tell you why that is.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that nobody in the world has taken any Palestinians to court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> But ever thought that them being destitute the court could not give them any other punishment than prison, and they would have to build a lot of prisons to house the Palestinians involved.  In this case the P.A. withdrew its complaint as it could not afford the bad propaganda that would have been generated. Having say 1000 Palestinians branded terrorists in law and the regime being terrorist would lose them 80% of their current support.
Click to expand...

Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.

Israel's lackeys in the US veto everything.

Next?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would be over your head so I am not surprised that you missed the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> So, what was the purpose of the split?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Power and control of all the money of course. When $10 billion is passing through your hands the chances of a few $million sticking to their greasy palms is a given. They are just following the example of Arafat the fraud from Egypt and lining their own nest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Arafat, Abbas, and that crowd are the foreign appointed oligarchs of Palestine. They get paid to sell the Palestinians down the river.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proving that the Palestinians are incapable of self determination and the ability to stand on their feet. So they are not ready to be a state without support from outside. The Palestinians never objected to the people being put in charge, so they must agree with them in principle
Click to expand...

Blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you have a handy conspiracy theory that resolves your inability to hold Islamic terrorists responsible for their self-inflicted disasters.
> 
> 
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that nobody in the world has taken any Palestinians to court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> But ever thought that them being destitute the court could not give them any other punishment than prison, and they would have to build a lot of prisons to house the Palestinians involved.  In this case the P.A. withdrew its complaint as it could not afford the bad propaganda that would have been generated. Having say 1000 Palestinians branded terrorists in law and the regime being terrorist would lose them 80% of their current support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> Israel's lackeys in the US veto everything.
> 
> Next?
Click to expand...







 They cant veto the ICC/ICJ    so why hasn't Israel been charged.

 Or didn't you read the ICC report as to why, and how it shook up the UN to its foundations.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It made no point did it, it just rambled on about the failure of the Palestinians to work together and make a go of statehood. Which seems to be over your head when it comes to the reality.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> So, what was the purpose of the split?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Power and control of all the money of course. When $10 billion is passing through your hands the chances of a few $million sticking to their greasy palms is a given. They are just following the example of Arafat the fraud from Egypt and lining their own nest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Arafat, Abbas, and that crowd are the foreign appointed oligarchs of Palestine. They get paid to sell the Palestinians down the river.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proving that the Palestinians are incapable of self determination and the ability to stand on their feet. So they are not ready to be a state without support from outside. The Palestinians never objected to the people being put in charge, so they must agree with them in principle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blah, blah, blah.
Click to expand...






 In other words you admit defeat and accept that the Palestinians have no legal rights to the land and will never make a viable nation while the sun still shines


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card the best you can do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that nobody in the world has taken any Palestinians to court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> But ever thought that them being destitute the court could not give them any other punishment than prison, and they would have to build a lot of prisons to house the Palestinians involved.  In this case the P.A. withdrew its complaint as it could not afford the bad propaganda that would have been generated. Having say 1000 Palestinians branded terrorists in law and the regime being terrorist would lose them 80% of their current support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> Israel's lackeys in the US veto everything.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They cant veto the ICC/ICJ    so why hasn't Israel been charged.
> 
> Or didn't you read the ICC report as to why, and how it shook up the UN to its foundations.
Click to expand...

I must have missed that.

Could you provide a link?

Thanks.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that the majority of the world view Palestinians as terrorists, and with good reason. Would you call the ICC judgement flawed when it said that the Palestinians could face charges of war crimes because of their terrorism ?
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that nobody in the world has taken any Palestinians to court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> But ever thought that them being destitute the court could not give them any other punishment than prison, and they would have to build a lot of prisons to house the Palestinians involved.  In this case the P.A. withdrew its complaint as it could not afford the bad propaganda that would have been generated. Having say 1000 Palestinians branded terrorists in law and the regime being terrorist would lose them 80% of their current support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is it that the UN hasn't charged Israel with all the war crimes it is supposed to have carried out.
> 
> Israel's lackeys in the US veto everything.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They cant veto the ICC/ICJ    so why hasn't Israel been charged.
> 
> Or didn't you read the ICC report as to why, and how it shook up the UN to its foundations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I must have missed that.
> 
> Could you provide a link?
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...






 Strange the last 12 times I posted that link you went quiet and changed the subject, so you must be lying

 So here it is from another source


ICC issues first report on war crimes in Palestinian- Israeli conflict


The preliminary report noted that 4,881 rockets and 1,750 mortar rounds were fired by Hamas at Israel, indicating that these incidents could be claimed as potential war crimes. Additionally, the report echoed IDF Military Intelligence, stating that out of the more than 2,000 Palestinians killed, at least 1,000 were civilians, as opposed to the high of 1,600 civilians claimed by the United Nations and other human 30%. The report did note there were discrepancies regarding those numbers.

Next, the report mentions allegations that Hamas launched attacks from civilian locations, such as schools, hospitals and mosques.


Regarding the first in the series of triggers leading to the summer conflicts, the report partially backed another aspect of the Israeli narrative, emphasizing that Operation Brothers’ Keeper was initiated by the kidnapping and murder of Gil-Ad Shaer, 16, Naftali Fraenkel, 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19, three Israeli teens, a narrative which past reports have under-emphasized.

Further, the report noted Hamas’ rocket attacks on Israel in framing Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip, though it did not explicitly state a position on the legality of the blockade.
 Regarding the first in the series of triggers leading to the summer conflicts, the report partially backed another aspect of the Israeli narrative, emphasizing that Operation Brothers’ Keeper was initiated by the kidnapping and murder of Gil-Ad Shaer, 16, Naftali Fraenkel, 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19, three Israeli teens, a narrative which past reports have under-emphasized.

Further, the report noted Hamas’ rocket attacks on Israel in framing Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip, though it did not explicitly state a position on the legality of the blockade.


----------



## gt1085

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

Lol,Believe me, christian, are No different,in fact They are worst murders.By Far,Bar None.


----------



## gt1085

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...

Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.


----------



## Hossfly

gt1085 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
Click to expand...

Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.


----------



## gt1085

Hossfly said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
Click to expand...

If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
Click to expand...







 The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sleepless Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.

You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sleepless Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
Click to expand...







 Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.

 Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't bombing family homes targeting women and children?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
Click to expand...

You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.


----------



## Mindful

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
Click to expand...


One should take into consideration the history of the invasions, which date back to *610, *when Muhammad had a religious experience on Mount Hira that changed his life. It's been going on for centuries.


----------



## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One should take into consideration the history of the invasions, which date back to *610, *when Muhammad had a religious experience on Mount Hira that changed his life. It's been going on for centuries.
Click to expand...

Just the first of Mohammed's drug induced dreams.


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One should take into consideration the history of the invasions, which date back to *610, *when Muhammad had a religious experience on Mount Hira that changed his life. It's been going on for centuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the first of Mohammed's drug induced dreams.
Click to expand...



Then there were the giveaways.

The Hashemites in Palestine: A Royal Scam That Keeps On Scamming


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not when they have been warned of the intention to destroy a valid military target, they should be evacuated by hamas under those circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
Click to expand...







 No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.

 Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.

 The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE

 The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE

 The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE

 The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE

 The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE

 The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE

The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE

 The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
Click to expand...

Dividing people into different groups is racist.


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.

The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of: 

•  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
•  The West Bank Settlements.
•  The question of Jerusalem.
•  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.  

The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.  

It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.

Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.

Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.

The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​R



This is so on the money.  We really need to be looking forward rather than looking backwards.  

1.  Is there a competent government capable of making Palestine a legitimate State?
2.  Is each State to be expected to govern groups of mixed ethnicity/culture or is there some sort of ethnic cleansing or population transfer required?
3.  How are the Holy Places to be managed and under what criteria?
4.  Can we agree on territorial boundaries?
5.  Can an end-of-conflict agreement address Israel's security needs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.

Rights be damned.


----------



## gt1085

Mindful said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One should take into consideration the history of the invasions, which date back to *610, *when Muhammad had a religious experience on Mount Hira that changed his life. It's been going on for centuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the first of Mohammed's drug induced dreams.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then there were the giveaways.
> 
> The Hashemites in Palestine: A Royal Scam That Keeps On Scamming
Click to expand...

those are so-called white people


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its Their got dam land and not christians.Israel are the Terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose land? Who's the terrorists? Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes and Those are Fake Arabs.European Implants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
> It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.
> 
> Rights be damned.
Click to expand...


Your continued whining about the self-inflicted pratfalls, poor decisions and overall incompetence and ineptitudes displayed by the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is pointless. 

It's quite clear that in the realm of decision making, taking appropriate action and the ability for some cultures to build vibrant societies, there are those who can and those (Arabs-Moslems, specifically) who can't. 

The situation faced by Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is really no different than the various diseases afflicting the entirety of the Islamist Middle East. Whining as you do about your Islamist terrorist heroes in Gaza and the West Bank is little more than yammering that fails to address the retrogression and failed societies that define the Islamist Middle East.


----------



## gt1085

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
> It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.
> 
> Rights be damned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your continued whining about the self-inflicted pratfalls, poor decisions and overall incompetence and ineptitudes displayed by the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is pointless.
> 
> It's quite clear that in the realm of decision making, taking appropriate action and the ability for some cultures to build vibrant societies, there are those who can and those (Arabs-Moslems, specifically) who can't.
> 
> The situation faced by Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is really no different than the various diseases afflicting the entirety of the Islamist Middle East. Whining as you do about your Islamist terrorist heroes in Gaza and the West Bank is little more than yammering that fails to address the retrogression and failed societies that define the Islamist Middle East.
Click to expand...

Good information.So what would we call these people who invaded 
america and killed Millions,On Top Of Millions and so on.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we know you are mentally deranged because you deny the Jews the same rights you demand for the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
Click to expand...







 Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?

 Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.


 Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
> It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.
> 
> Rights be damned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your continued whining about the self-inflicted pratfalls, poor decisions and overall incompetence and ineptitudes displayed by the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is pointless.
> 
> It's quite clear that in the realm of decision making, taking appropriate action and the ability for some cultures to build vibrant societies, there are those who can and those (Arabs-Moslems, specifically) who can't.
> 
> The situation faced by Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is really no different than the various diseases afflicting the entirety of the Islamist Middle East. Whining as you do about your Islamist terrorist heroes in Gaza and the West Bank is little more than yammering that fails to address the retrogression and failed societies that define the Islamist Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good information.So what would we call these people who invaded
> america and killed Millions,On Top Of Millions and so on.
Click to expand...






 Invading colonists of course, just as the arab muslims that invaded Samaria and Judea, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Somalia, India, Tunisia, Morocco and Turkey.  Then we have the blacks who have invaded the Americas raping and pillaging as they go.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
> It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.
> 
> Rights be damned.
Click to expand...






 Which seems to be the muslims at the moment getting 30 times more than the next top 4 put together.    Over $7.5 billion to Afghanistan alone in monetary aid.

And that is how you view the Jews, as having no rights to anything


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don`t know then im not telling.the Israel thats there now,it not there birthright land,plain and simply.they are foreigners invaders,Stealing is what those fools do scumbags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One should take into consideration the history of the invasions, which date back to *610, *when Muhammad had a religious experience on Mount Hira that changed his life. It's been going on for centuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the first of Mohammed's drug induced dreams.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then there were the giveaways.
> 
> The Hashemites in Palestine: A Royal Scam That Keeps On Scamming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> those are so-called white people
Click to expand...






 No they are arab muslims as opposed to violent black afrocarribeans


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
Click to expand...

I have never seen "arab muslims" ever mentioned in international law.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never seen "arab muslims" ever mentioned in international law.
Click to expand...





DUCKING the question again, who mentioned arab muslims, and you have never read any International laws in reality.

 When will you give answers to questions posed that will show your hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to the Jews ?   But to make it easier for you it means the arab muslims that are the ones causing all the violence and trouble in Palestine.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never denied the rights of the native Jews.
> 
> You have proved once again that you are nothing but hot air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
Click to expand...

No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
> It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.
> 
> Rights be damned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your continued whining about the self-inflicted pratfalls, poor decisions and overall incompetence and ineptitudes displayed by the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is pointless.
> 
> It's quite clear that in the realm of decision making, taking appropriate action and the ability for some cultures to build vibrant societies, there are those who can and those (Arabs-Moslems, specifically) who can't.
> 
> The situation faced by Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is really no different than the various diseases afflicting the entirety of the Islamist Middle East. Whining as you do about your Islamist terrorist heroes in Gaza and the West Bank is little more than yammering that fails to address the retrogression and failed societies that define the Islamist Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good information.So what would we call these people who invaded
> america and killed Millions,On Top Of Millions and so on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invading colonists of course, just as the arab muslims that invaded Samaria and Judea, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Somalia, India, Tunisia, Morocco and Turkey.  Then we have the blacks who have invaded the Americas raping and pillaging as they go.
Click to expand...

If You Are Speaking About Blacks Here,You Are Lying,We Were Here Before Columbus And The Slave Trade.It Was The European Come Here Killing Over 12 Million Original People Of This Land.!@ Million Innocent People And The number Still Rises To This Very Hour,Innocent People Dying For No Reason Getting Murdered.


----------



## gt1085

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.  That has very little to do with it.  Decisions were made.  Apportionments were either awarded or given tacit approval.  Investments were established.  The same war was fought three time and is still not over.
> 
> The only contemporary questions that legitimately remains today are the question of:
> 
> •  The West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
> •  The West Bank Settlements.
> •  The question of Jerusalem.
> •  The legitimacy and competency of the alleged State of Palestine.  (Including the legitimacy of its government.)​
> But hashing and rehashing the League of Nations decisions made in the first two decades of the 20th Century, --- the Mid-Post War era by the United Nations, --- and the decisions relative to the three wars (1948, 1967, 1973) which were actually all the same war, --- is not going to solve much.
> 
> The Israelis are not going to be a party to its own nation-suicide by allowing hostile Arab Palestinians to flood inside its sovereignty.
> 
> It is not going to adopt or be a party to some sort of forced Arab Style, Treaty of Versailles like reparations, restitution, or monetary settlements that would bankrupt or serious strain the economy in favor of the failed entity of Palestine.
> 
> Israel is no going to allow the selfish policies of the radicalized Islamic extremist to claim control over all access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.
> 
> Remember, that Israel, given the violent history against its people and culture _(and the Jihadist within the Arab League)_, exercising its national sovereignty will decides that extraordinary events, related to the Israeli-Palestinian Relations will not  jeopardized the supreme interests of its country.  It will stand to protect and preserve the culture.
> 
> The solution rests in what will each side accept; for the sake of peace.  But their are limitations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it is not a matter of who had what rights when.​
> It is a matter of who could mooch the most guns, money, and political support.
> 
> Rights be damned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your continued whining about the self-inflicted pratfalls, poor decisions and overall incompetence and ineptitudes displayed by the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is pointless.
> 
> It's quite clear that in the realm of decision making, taking appropriate action and the ability for some cultures to build vibrant societies, there are those who can and those (Arabs-Moslems, specifically) who can't.
> 
> The situation faced by Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is really no different than the various diseases afflicting the entirety of the Islamist Middle East. Whining as you do about your Islamist terrorist heroes in Gaza and the West Bank is little more than yammering that fails to address the retrogression and failed societies that define the Islamist Middle East.
Click to expand...

Their is No Differents For Arab Muslims,And White christian Where christian are the Champion Murders no will beat the caucasians Record of Innocent killings Already over 200 Million and were all Blacks .but Animals will be Animals and are born from Lemurs.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thieves and invaders are the arab muslims who have 100's of 1,000,000's of deaths on their blood stained hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One should take into consideration the history of the invasions, which date back to *610, *when Muhammad had a religious experience on Mount Hira that changed his life. It's been going on for centuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the first of Mohammed's drug induced dreams.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then there were the giveaways.
> 
> The Hashemites in Palestine: A Royal Scam That Keeps On Scamming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> those are so-called white people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they are arab muslims as opposed to violent black afrocarribeans
Click to expand...

No thier is only 1 violent people and the are so-called White people.Fact.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never seen "arab muslims" ever mentioned in international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DUCKING the question again, who mentioned arab muslims, and you have never read any International laws in reality.
> 
> When will you give answers to questions posed that will show your hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to the Jews ?   But to make it easier for you it means the arab muslims that are the ones causing all the violence and trouble in Palestine.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by arab muslims and which Jews are you talking about?


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> 
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never seen "arab muslims" ever mentioned in international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DUCKING the question again, who mentioned arab muslims, and you have never read any International laws in reality.
> 
> When will you give answers to questions posed that will show your hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to the Jews ?   But to make it easier for you it means the arab muslims that are the ones causing all the violence and trouble in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean by arab muslims and which Jews are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Don`t know what your commenting on.But todays arabs are fake they are not the Original,Jews their are a few white Jews,which means they practice that religion,jew-ish is a None people meaning Fake they are khazars.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why wont you give the two year rule Jews the same rights you give the two year rule Palestinians. Your duck did not work as you are known to operate two sets of rules.
> 
> Just as we have never denied the rights of the pre 1920 arab muslim Palestinians, just the post 1920 illegal immigrant arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?
Click to expand...





Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are just bloviating again. You always misrepresent what I say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.
Click to expand...

No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.


----------



## Shusha

gt1085 said:


> What makes you say im racist?



I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.


----------



## gt1085

Shusha said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you say im racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.
Click to expand...

That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I am pinning you down to specifics to see just how far you will go to twist the truth.
> 
> Now can we start again with the same set of rules for both sides and see just what your views are.
> 
> The Jews and arab muslims that arrived after 1920 should be given the same rights in all matters   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The Jews lands bought under international law in the west bank should be handed back to them   TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslim lands in Israel bought under international law should be handed back to them TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The treaties formulated under international laws of the time should be enforced on the Jews and arab muslims  TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The UN resolutions should not be used as International laws TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The arab muslims should be kicked out of the UN for their use of illegal weapons against the Jews contrary to the UN charter TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of Palestine to the arab muslims east of the Jordan is the only land they can claim TRUE or FALSE
> 
> The granting of the land to the west of the Jordan is the only land that the Jews can claim TRUE or FALSE.
> 
> 
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.
Click to expand...






 No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you say im racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.
Click to expand...





Correct and you are no better when you look


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you say im racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and you are no better when you look
Click to expand...

lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dividing people into different groups is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago
Click to expand...

lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.


----------



## gt1085

*Adolf Hitler And The Black Jews.*
**


----------



## gt1085

*GERMANY'S BLACK HOLOCAUST 1890-1945 TRUTH FOR TRUTH SEEKERS!!!!*
**


----------



## gt1085

So i`m done with the conversation.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you say im racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and you are no better when you look
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.
Click to expand...






 Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like dividing pre 1920 Palestinians Jews from post 1920 Palestinian Jews ?
> 
> Something you are very proud of doing on here as it allegedly hides your racism.
> 
> 
> Now how about answering the questions instead of ducking them, something else you are very good at
> 
> 
> 
> No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.
Click to expand...







 You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No i`m not racist,hate the things or people that are,and their is plenty to go around.What makes you say im racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.
Click to expand...

Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you say im racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and you are no better when you look
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?
Click to expand...

All what you`ve posted


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your terminology in your posts for starters that show you are favouring one group over the others. The way you attack the Jews is racist in the extreme.
> 
> 
> 
> No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.
Click to expand...








 You understand nothing as it is your DNA and brainwashing talking.

 The khazars are a LIE and never existed, if they had then the history books would be full of them. Not a whisper or a mention until the mid 20C when Israel won the war in 1967 and reclaimed their stolen lands. So the Russians gave the arab muslims two books and told them to use them against Israel. A pity the Internet came along and blew them both out of the water.

 It is you in denial because your belief's have been burst apart and you have nothing left


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine it is your frequent use of racial terms to discuss human beings and groups of human beings.  Typically in Western culture, people are not identified by their skin color but by their ethnic, cultural, social or national groups.
> 
> 
> 
> That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and you are no better when you look
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All what you`ve posted
Click to expand...







 Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?


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## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That maybe true in other places except america,it`s skin color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and you are no better when you look
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All what you`ve posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
Click to expand...

You really can`t or don`t see it?


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No,Perhaps truth is being overlooked as it always is over looked unless dealing 1 particular people out of many.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand nothing as it is your DNA and brainwashing talking.
> 
> The khazars are a LIE and never existed, if they had then the history books would be full of them. Not a whisper or a mention until the mid 20C when Israel won the war in 1967 and reclaimed their stolen lands. So the Russians gave the arab muslims two books and told them to use them against Israel. A pity the Internet came along and blew them both out of the water.
> 
> It is you in denial because your belief's have been burst apart and you have nothing left
Click to expand...

lol,there land is still stole bbut the perpetrators,that are still there.Those would be khzarians that is not there land.There will be Peace when the Real Jews Have There Land Back.You just can`t seem to grasp this conceptual fact.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and you are no better when you look
> 
> 
> 
> lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All what you`ve posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can`t or don`t see it?
Click to expand...







 No because I come from a nation with very strict racism laws, so we learnt not to be racist in word or deed. Everything I have said is based on the truth meaning it cant be racist, unless you are a muslim then any criticism of islam or the muslims is racism


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you are a common or garden racist and wont admit it to yourself. You single out the Jews for "special" treatment just as the Germans did in the 1930's. You deny them their right to a home, a right to territorial integrity and a right to exercise their free determination. All this because they are a different skin tone to you. In fact you are racially abusive to all people who have a lighter skin tone than you do because of something that happened 1500 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand nothing as it is your DNA and brainwashing talking.
> 
> The khazars are a LIE and never existed, if they had then the history books would be full of them. Not a whisper or a mention until the mid 20C when Israel won the war in 1967 and reclaimed their stolen lands. So the Russians gave the arab muslims two books and told them to use them against Israel. A pity the Internet came along and blew them both out of the water.
> 
> It is you in denial because your belief's have been burst apart and you have nothing left
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,there land is still stole bbut the perpetrators,that are still there.Those would be khzarians that is not there land.There will be Peace when the Real Jews Have There Land Back.You just can`t seem to grasp this conceptual fact.
Click to expand...






LINK to the evidence of these khazars that have never existed outside of islamonazi fantasies. The real Jews are claiming back their lands now, and they come from all over this planet. They are not sub Saharan muslims pretending to be Jews that have invaded Israel, nor are they N.K. Jews who think they are the ruling class and should be kicked out of Israel.


 You cant grasp that there was never a place called khazaria and that the 6 million Jews in Israel originated from 4 Turkish women


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol,you talk Foolishly jewish,khazarian,khzars are in a land that is not it what your kind does steal everything its because you are a new species,only a racist would say i`m racist.You talk like a slave from slavs,you slavic.Beside you are onnly a baby still at your age but you are not in habitat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand nothing as it is your DNA and brainwashing talking.
> 
> The khazars are a LIE and never existed, if they had then the history books would be full of them. Not a whisper or a mention until the mid 20C when Israel won the war in 1967 and reclaimed their stolen lands. So the Russians gave the arab muslims two books and told them to use them against Israel. A pity the Internet came along and blew them both out of the water.
> 
> It is you in denial because your belief's have been burst apart and you have nothing left
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,there land is still stole bbut the perpetrators,that are still there.Those would be khzarians that is not there land.There will be Peace when the Real Jews Have There Land Back.You just can`t seem to grasp this conceptual fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LINK to the evidence of these khazars that have never existed outside of islamonazi fantasies. The real Jews are claiming back their lands now, and they come from all over this planet. They are not sub Saharan muslims pretending to be Jews that have invaded Israel, nor are they N.K. Jews who think they are the ruling class and should be kicked out of Israel.
> 
> 
> You cant grasp that there was never a place called khazaria and that the 6 million Jews in Israel originated from 4 Turkish women
Click to expand...

Okay we`re not going back over the same thing.I showed you the real Jew and they ARE NOT WHITE,THEY ARE DARK SKIN EVEN JET BLACK.Quit being stupid.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol,well we your not you below us.Your racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All what you`ve posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can`t or don`t see it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No because I come from a nation with very strict racism laws, so we learnt not to be racist in word or deed. Everything I have said is based on the truth meaning it cant be racist, unless you are a muslim then any criticism of islam or the muslims is racism
Click to expand...

Well im not muslim.see just the fact that you cannot see racism because you are racist 1,it benefits you 2.And it does benefit the caucasians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lara Kiswani*

**
**


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lara Kiswani*
> 
> **


the are in with the real or true  Palestinians.no doubt.The ones in your video are mixed.And it is not their land.


----------



## Hollie

Happy ram-odon-a-ding-dong



The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.


----------



## gt1085

Hollie said:


> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.


nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.


----------



## Hossfly

gt1085 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
Click to expand...

Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.

Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.


----------



## gt1085

Hossfly said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.


----------



## Hossfly

gt1085 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
Click to expand...


You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.


----------



## gt1085

Hossfly said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
Click to expand...

I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.


----------



## gt1085

Less simplified this true jews us are in our true land,Israel is still capture by those invaders that suckered all people except  a few,That whole land being run over by intruders Fake jew-ish scum in Israel,just as here america invaders captured this land it is not nor can be caucasians land.


----------



## RoccoR

gt1085,  et al,

Well, only some people in Morocco have the deep black complexion; not all.



gt1085 said:


> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.


*(COMMENT)*

Morocco is a very diverse culture with a very wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.  My Grandmother (born on the Island Majorca, Iberian Sea, Spain) had family in Morocco.  She took me there as a boy.  While everyone there (but me) has the Mediterranean Sea complexion; if   you look close, you will notice feature feature in the general population acquired from the old American Protectorate for Liberia, around the straits, and through North Africa and the Middle East to Lebanon.  As young men, we use to say it was a veritable Smörgåsbord for beautiful women.  I suppose it still is today. 




Morocco Moroccan People Pictures
1680 x 1050 · jpegasia-pictures.net
Morocco Happy girls photo collage​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## gt1085

RoccoR said:


> gt1085,  et al,
> 
> Well, only some people in Morocco have the deep black complexion; not all.
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Morocco is a very diverse culture with a very wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.  My Grandmother (born on the Island Majorca, Iberian Sea, Spain) had family in Morocco.  She took me there as a boy.  While everyone there (but me) has the Mediterranean Sea complexion; if   you look close, you will notice feature feature in the general population acquired from the old American Protectorate for Liberia, around the straits, and through North Africa and the Middle East to Lebanon.  As young men, we use to say it was a veritable Smörgåsbord for beautiful women.  I suppose it still is today.
> 
> View attachment 79253
> Morocco Moroccan People Pictures
> 1680 x 1050 · jpegasia-pictures.net
> Morocco Happy girls photo collage​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Well i see a mixed race we know this but the original is`nt diverse as you see today.


----------



## RoccoR

gt1085,  et al,

Well, as countries develop in a positive direction, they will also evolve in a positive direction.



gt1085 said:


> Well i see a mixed race we know this but the original is`nt diverse as you see today.


*(COMMENT)*

Morocco show signs of Human Development significantly greater than most of Africa.  And humanity tends to gravitate towards regions of greater development.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hossfly

gt1085 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
Click to expand...



A Moroccan, and even a Tunisian or Algerian, would be insulted if you called them Black.  I have met Berbers from North Africa who were as white as any light-skinned Caucasians.  Why are you so obsessed with race?  Go back to designing T-shirts for Melanin Apparel.  You can work on your obsession with new designs.  Hopefully for you that you get a lot of Black customers shopping on-line.

Instead of worrying about the Israelis and calling them scum, Israel is probably doing more to help the Africans than all your spouting off is doing.  What are you doing to help the poor Black people in Africa?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Elashi*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## gt1085

Hossfly said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Moroccan, and even a Tunisian or Algerian, would be insulted if you called them Black.  I have met Berbers from North Africa who were as white as any light-skinned Caucasians.  Why are you so obsessed with race?  Go back to designing T-shirts for Melanin Apparel.  You can work on your obsession with new designs.  Hopefully for you that you get a lot of Black customers shopping on-line.
> 
> Instead of worrying about the Israelis and calling them scum, Israel is probably doing more to help the Africans than all your spouting off is doing.  What are you doing to help the poor Black people in Africa?
Click to expand...

Your blind as well dumb.Moroccan are black all day whites are new to this planet the last to be made.By us Blacks.


----------



## gt1085

RoccoR said:


> gt1085,  et al,
> 
> Well, as countries develop in a positive direction, they will also evolve in a positive direction.
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well i see a mixed race we know this but the original is`nt diverse as you see today.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Morocco show signs of Human Development significantly greater than most of Africa.  And humanity tends to gravitate towards regions of greater development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Developed how?


----------



## Hossfly

gt1085 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Moroccan, and even a Tunisian or Algerian, would be insulted if you called them Black.  I have met Berbers from North Africa who were as white as any light-skinned Caucasians.  Why are you so obsessed with race?  Go back to designing T-shirts for Melanin Apparel.  You can work on your obsession with new designs.  Hopefully for you that you get a lot of Black customers shopping on-line.
> 
> Instead of worrying about the Israelis and calling them scum, Israel is probably doing more to help the Africans than all your spouting off is doing.  What are you doing to help the poor Black people in Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your blind as well dumb.Moroccan are black all day whites are new to this planet the last to be made.By us Blacks.
Click to expand...



Notable Moroccans


​



Moors


​



Ordinary Moroccans


​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## gt1085

Hossfly said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Moroccan, and even a Tunisian or Algerian, would be insulted if you called them Black.  I have met Berbers from North Africa who were as white as any light-skinned Caucasians.  Why are you so obsessed with race?  Go back to designing T-shirts for Melanin Apparel.  You can work on your obsession with new designs.  Hopefully for you that you get a lot of Black customers shopping on-line.
> 
> Instead of worrying about the Israelis and calling them scum, Israel is probably doing more to help the Africans than all your spouting off is doing.  What are you doing to help the poor Black people in Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your blind as well dumb.Moroccan are black all day whites are new to this planet the last to be made.By us Blacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Notable Moroccans
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Moors
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Ordinary Moroccans
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...

Well these are True Moroccans,before mixing blood with caucasians.


----------



## RoccoR

gt1085,  et al,

Yeah, that is a very good question.  And it is a dynamic answer.



gt1085 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085,  et al,
> 
> Well, as countries develop in a positive direction, they will also evolve in a positive direction.
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well i see a mixed race we know this but the original is`nt diverse as you see today.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Morocco show signs of Human Development significantly greater than most of Africa.  And humanity tends to gravitate towards regions of greater development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Developed how?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I took this from the UN Human Development Web Site.  I am very bad at explaining this, tending to use more political terms than I should; which doesn't do the justice the concept deserves.


> These ideas helped pave the way for the human development approach, which is about expanding the richness of human life, rather than simply the richness of the economy in which human beings live. It is an approach that is focused on creating fair opportunities and choices for all people. So how do these ideas come together in the human development approach?
> 
> 
> *People: *the human development approach focuses on improving the lives people lead rather than assuming that economic growth will lead, automatically, to greater opportunities for all. Income growth is an important means to development, rather than an end in itself.
> 
> *Opportunities: *human development is about giving people more freedom and opportunities to live lives they value. In effect this means developing people’s abilities and giving them a chance to use them. For example, educating a girl would build her skills, but it is of little use if she is denied access to jobs, or does not have the skills for the local labour market. The diagram below looks at aspects of human development that are foundational (that is they are a fundamental part of human development); and aspects that are more contextual (that is they help to create the conditions that allow people to flourish). Three foundations for human development are to live a healthy and creative life, to be knowledgeable, and to have access to resources needed for a decent standard of living. Many other aspects are important too, especially in helping to create the right conditions for human development, such as environmental sustainability or equality between men and women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enlarge diagram
> Once the basics of human development are achieved, they open up opportunities for progress in other aspects of life.
> 
> *Choices: *human development is, fundamentally, about more choice. It is about providing people with opportunities, not insisting that they make use of them. No one can guarantee human happiness, and the choices people make are their own concern. The process of development – human development - should at least create an environment for people, individually and collectively, to develop to their full potential and to have a reasonable chance of leading productive and creative lives that they value.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## gt1085

RoccoR said:


> gt1085,  et al,
> 
> Yeah, that is a very good question.  And it is a dynamic answer.
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085,  et al,
> 
> Well, as countries develop in a positive direction, they will also evolve in a positive direction.
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well i see a mixed race we know this but the original is`nt diverse as you see today.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Morocco show signs of Human Development significantly greater than most of Africa.  And humanity tends to gravitate towards regions of greater development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Developed how?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I took this from the UN Human Development Web Site.  I am very bad at explaining this, tending to use more political terms than I should; which doesn't do the justice the concept deserves.
> 
> 
> 
> These ideas helped pave the way for the human development approach, which is about expanding the richness of human life, rather than simply the richness of the economy in which human beings live. It is an approach that is focused on creating fair opportunities and choices for all people. So how do these ideas come together in the human development approach?
> 
> 
> *People: *the human development approach focuses on improving the lives people lead rather than assuming that economic growth will lead, automatically, to greater opportunities for all. Income growth is an important means to development, rather than an end in itself.
> 
> *Opportunities: *human development is about giving people more freedom and opportunities to live lives they value. In effect this means developing people’s abilities and giving them a chance to use them. For example, educating a girl would build her skills, but it is of little use if she is denied access to jobs, or does not have the skills for the local labour market. The diagram below looks at aspects of human development that are foundational (that is they are a fundamental part of human development); and aspects that are more contextual (that is they help to create the conditions that allow people to flourish). Three foundations for human development are to live a healthy and creative life, to be knowledgeable, and to have access to resources needed for a decent standard of living. Many other aspects are important too, especially in helping to create the right conditions for human development, such as environmental sustainability or equality between men and women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enlarge diagram
> Once the basics of human development are achieved, they open up opportunities for progress in other aspects of life.
> 
> *Choices: *human development is, fundamentally, about more choice. It is about providing people with opportunities, not insisting that they make use of them. No one can guarantee human happiness, and the choices people make are their own concern. The process of development – human development - should at least create an environment for people, individually and collectively, to develop to their full potential and to have a reasonable chance of leading productive and creative lives that they value.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OKay you have my respect and my ears,I love knowledge intellectual thinking,and their is not to much of thats.Thank You.Peace.


----------



## Hossfly

gt1085 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Moroccan, and even a Tunisian or Algerian, would be insulted if you called them Black.  I have met Berbers from North Africa who were as white as any light-skinned Caucasians.  Why are you so obsessed with race?  Go back to designing T-shirts for Melanin Apparel.  You can work on your obsession with new designs.  Hopefully for you that you get a lot of Black customers shopping on-line.
> 
> Instead of worrying about the Israelis and calling them scum, Israel is probably doing more to help the Africans than all your spouting off is doing.  What are you doing to help the poor Black people in Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your blind as well dumb.Moroccan are black all day whites are new to this planet the last to be made.By us Blacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Notable Moroccans
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Moors
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Ordinary Moroccans
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well these are True Moroccans,before mixing blood with caucasians.
Click to expand...


Have any of the posters ever seen someone so obsessed with race?  Race has nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine conflict, but this guy closes his eyes to it to concentrate on race.  Maybe he should go back to the country of his roots and try to convince everyone there that everyone on this planet was once actually Black so that could all raise their fist like he does and yell "Black Power" and start designing and selling clothing like he does for Melanin Aooarel,  Everyone should check out his site to see where he is coming from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Taghyeer - Palestinian National Nonviolence Movement *

**


----------



## Hollie

Hamas: clowns in ski masks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Sarah Abdulqader,* daughter of political prisoner.

**


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


> *Taghyeer - Palestinian National Nonviolence Movement *
> 
> **


Those are mixed breed and therefore cannot be the original people loli know you are that dumb ,well playing the part.One more more Documented Proof .


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Sarah Abdulqader,* daughter of political prisoner.
> 
> **


More i know it`s all confusing to you.But your Own people Manipulated you


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Know Thy Heritage Leadership Program “Live & Explore Palestine"*

**


----------



## Hollie

Know thy leadership - Islamic terrorist loons


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


> *Know Thy Heritage Leadership Program “Live & Explore Palestine"*
> 
> **


lol those are europeans .lol


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Bethlehem Museum - Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation *


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Crusading Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?



Who knew that Mendelssohn and Rachmaninoff were originally Balestinian composers??

.
So a bunch of arab kids who mostly don't even live in the PA playing Rachmaninoff, Mozart, Mendelssohn...conducted and paid by europeans- that's THEIR CULTURAL IDENTITY???
Do they have any original composers or music at all?

Sure.... Mendelssohn, Gershwin and Khachaturian.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hamas child soldiers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hamas child soldiers


So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
Click to expand...

What occupation Tinmore? Here, read this article about Terrorism not caused by occupation. When are you going to quit whining and wise up?


*No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'*
*by Efraim Karsh
The Jerusalem Post
June 21, 2016*


As the blood dried at the scene of the latest Tel Aviv massacre, the city's mayor rushed to empathize with the terrorists' motives. "We might be the only country in the world where another nation is under occupation without civil rights," he claimed. "You can't hold people in a situation of occupation and hope they'll reach the conclusion everything is alright."

This prognosis was quickly followed by the usual Israeli "hope" peddlers. "The terror will continue as long as the Palestinian people have no hope on the horizon," argued a _Haaretz_ editorial. "The only way to deal with terrorism is by freeing the Palestinian people from the occupation."

But this precisely what Israel did 20 years ago.

No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation Tinmore? Here, read this article about Terrorism not caused by occupation. When are you going to quit whining and wise up?
> 
> 
> *No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'*
> *by Efraim Karsh
> The Jerusalem Post
> June 21, 2016*
> 
> 
> As the blood dried at the scene of the latest Tel Aviv massacre, the city's mayor rushed to empathize with the terrorists' motives. "We might be the only country in the world where another nation is under occupation without civil rights," he claimed. "You can't hold people in a situation of occupation and hope they'll reach the conclusion everything is alright."
> 
> This prognosis was quickly followed by the usual Israeli "hope" peddlers. "The terror will continue as long as the Palestinian people have no hope on the horizon," argued a _Haaretz_ editorial. "The only way to deal with terrorism is by freeing the Palestinian people from the occupation."
> 
> But this precisely what Israel did 20 years ago.
> 
> No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'
Click to expand...

*Israel relinquished control over virtually all Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza many years ago.​*
No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.


----------



## Shusha

Hossfly said:


> What occupation Tinmore? Here, read this article about Terrorism not caused by occupation. When are you going to quit whining and wise up?



When they say "occupation", they mean any Jewish self-determination or sovereignty over any of the territory.  Thus all of Israel is "occupied Palestine".


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.



Oh, of course they did.  All of Gaza is self-governing.  And 97% of Palestinians are self-governed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course they did.  All of Gaza is self-governing.  And 97% of Palestinians are self-governed.
Click to expand...

No people or goods can enter or leave the West Bank or Gaza without Israeli approval.

That looks like total control to me.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course they did.  All of Gaza is self-governing.  And 97% of Palestinians are self-governed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No people or goods can enter or leave the West Bank or Gaza without Israeli approval.
> 
> That looks like total control to me.
Click to expand...


You have it backwards.  No foreigners are permitted on Israeli sovereign soil without Israel's permission.  Same as every other country in the world.  Or what?  Do you think Americans can just cross the border into Canada without Canada's permission? Don't be silly.  

And this does not, in any case, refute the idea that both Gaza and the Palestinians are self-governed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course they did.  All of Gaza is self-governing.  And 97% of Palestinians are self-governed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No people or goods can enter or leave the West Bank or Gaza without Israeli approval.
> 
> That looks like total control to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have it backwards.  No foreigners are permitted on Israeli sovereign soil without Israel's permission.  Same as every other country in the world.  Or what?  Do you think Americans can just cross the border into Canada without Canada's permission? Don't be silly.
> 
> And this does not, in any case, refute the idea that both Gaza and the Palestinians are self-governed.
Click to expand...

What I posted is true.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What I posted is true.



What you posted is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Gaza and Palestine are self-governed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I posted is true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you posted is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Gaza and Palestine are self-governed.
Click to expand...

That is not what that liar said.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
Click to expand...


So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.

You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.
> 
> You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with my post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.
> 
> You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

How does that address my comments?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation Tinmore? Here, read this article about Terrorism not caused by occupation. When are you going to quit whining and wise up?
> 
> 
> *No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'*
> *by Efraim Karsh
> The Jerusalem Post
> June 21, 2016*
> 
> 
> As the blood dried at the scene of the latest Tel Aviv massacre, the city's mayor rushed to empathize with the terrorists' motives. "We might be the only country in the world where another nation is under occupation without civil rights," he claimed. "You can't hold people in a situation of occupation and hope they'll reach the conclusion everything is alright."
> 
> This prognosis was quickly followed by the usual Israeli "hope" peddlers. "The terror will continue as long as the Palestinian people have no hope on the horizon," argued a _Haaretz_ editorial. "The only way to deal with terrorism is by freeing the Palestinian people from the occupation."
> 
> But this precisely what Israel did 20 years ago.
> 
> No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel relinquished control over virtually all Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza many years ago.*​No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.
Click to expand...

Anyone who criticizes the Palestinians is a lying sack of shit. Ain't that right, Tinmore?


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Bethlehem Museum - Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation *


We know who the *, Palestinian  are.I was talking about the original people.Yes who you`ve been showing are also , Palestinian,but they are a mixed group of people and as usual the original are being pushed out like here in america.I guess it`s in white people "so-called"Have this thing about  weeding out everyone.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.
> 
> You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that address my comments?
Click to expand...

OK, here.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.
> 
> You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that address my comments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here.
Click to expand...


Continually sidestepping the explicit language of the Hamas Charter that calls for Jew killing in furtherance of Islamo-fascist precepts suggests you're in deep denial of the facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.
> 
> You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that address my comments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Continually sidestepping the explicit language of the Hamas Charter that calls for Jew killing in furtherance of Islamo-fascist precepts suggests you're in deep denial of the facts.
Click to expand...

They should call it the Israeli charter. Nobody else uses it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation Tinmore? Here, read this article about Terrorism not caused by occupation. When are you going to quit whining and wise up?
> 
> 
> *No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'*
> *by Efraim Karsh
> The Jerusalem Post
> June 21, 2016*
> 
> 
> As the blood dried at the scene of the latest Tel Aviv massacre, the city's mayor rushed to empathize with the terrorists' motives. "We might be the only country in the world where another nation is under occupation without civil rights," he claimed. "You can't hold people in a situation of occupation and hope they'll reach the conclusion everything is alright."
> 
> This prognosis was quickly followed by the usual Israeli "hope" peddlers. "The terror will continue as long as the Palestinian people have no hope on the horizon," argued a _Haaretz_ editorial. "The only way to deal with terrorism is by freeing the Palestinian people from the occupation."
> 
> But this precisely what Israel did 20 years ago.
> 
> No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel relinquished control over virtually all Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza many years ago.*​No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone who criticizes the Palestinians is a lying sack of shit. Ain't that right, Tinmore?
Click to expand...

No, he just lied.


----------



## Shusha

If the Gazans and the Palestinians have the right to resist occupation, the Jewish people have the same rights.  

Except of course, Tinny and others, deny the Jewish people those rights, in a blatant double standard.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> If the Gazans and the Palestinians have the right to resist occupation, the Jewish people have the same rights.
> 
> Except of course, Tinny and others, deny the Jewish people those rights, in a blatant double standard.


Show me where occupiers have rights.

Links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're perpetually befuddled. The islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan are waging gee-had in furtherance of the Hamas Charter.
> 
> You should educate yourself regarding the Charter and its explicit calls for destruction of the Jewish state. You should understand the islamist concept of _waqf_ and what that means with regard to any pretense of negotiation with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that address my comments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Continually sidestepping the explicit language of the Hamas Charter that calls for Jew killing in furtherance of Islamo-fascist precepts suggests you're in deep denial of the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They should call it the Israeli charter. Nobody else uses it.
Click to expand...

Denial is no excuse. It is only the military strength of Israel that prevents the islamo-fascists in Gaza'istan from attempting their Jewish state ending gee-had.

Your denial of the basic premise of the Hamas Charter doesn't make the Charter any less a commitment for the islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas child soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians have the right to fight off the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation Tinmore? Here, read this article about Terrorism not caused by occupation. When are you going to quit whining and wise up?
> 
> 
> *No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'*
> *by Efraim Karsh
> The Jerusalem Post
> June 21, 2016*
> 
> 
> As the blood dried at the scene of the latest Tel Aviv massacre, the city's mayor rushed to empathize with the terrorists' motives. "We might be the only country in the world where another nation is under occupation without civil rights," he claimed. "You can't hold people in a situation of occupation and hope they'll reach the conclusion everything is alright."
> 
> This prognosis was quickly followed by the usual Israeli "hope" peddlers. "The terror will continue as long as the Palestinian people have no hope on the horizon," argued a _Haaretz_ editorial. "The only way to deal with terrorism is by freeing the Palestinian people from the occupation."
> 
> But this precisely what Israel did 20 years ago.
> 
> No, Palestinian Terrorism Isn't a Response to 'Occupation'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel relinquished control over virtually all Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza many years ago.*​No they didn't. This guy is a lying sack of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone who criticizes the Palestinians is a lying sack of shit. Ain't that right, Tinmore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, he just lied.
Click to expand...


Have you ever thought, Tinny, that there are those who think  you and your fellow Arabs are lying sacks of excrement?  You can't even come up for some air as you are so busy on this forum giving your slant on things.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Show me where occupiers have rights.
> 
> Links?



You said yourself that people have INHERENT rights.  Why would the Jewish people not have those same INHERENT rights?


----------



## montelatici

Judaism is a religion.  An American or Italian that practices Judaism forms part of the American or Italian people.  Why can't you understand that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*DR LAILA GHANAM, Governor of Ramallah*

**


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?


Did they grow up with these children's shows?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *DR LAILA GHANAM, Governor of Ramallah*
> 
> **



Nothing of what you link actually explains  WHO THE F/Balestinians are.

All I see is press releases and BDS lectures, nothing about heritage or distinct cultural traits as music, literature, cuisine etc.

I just wanna check again, have you dug something that shows a DISTINCT culture or ANYTHING 
of these Arabs?


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Judaism is a religion.  An American or Italian that practices Judaism forms part of the American or Italian people.  Why can't you understand that?



Oh I understand it alright.  Its just a way to delegitimize the Jewish people and deny rights to them.  You've already given me your objective criteria of what makes a people a cultural ethnicity and the Jewish people hit every one and more that you forgot to mention or intentionally left out.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> I just wanna check again, have you dug something that shows a DISTINCT culture or ANYTHING
> of these Arabs?



According to the research I've been able to come up with there are two things distinct about the Palestinian culture.  

1.  They pronounce a single consonant slightly differently than other Arabic speakers.  

2.  The embroidery designs on their women's clothing (though common throughout Syria, Jordan and "Palestine") may have slightly different variations in different villages.


----------



## yiostheoy

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

I don't believe the Palestinians want peace.  And the Jews don't want to give up land.

So negotiation is out of the question.

The Palestinians will simply continue to rot in Gaza, in Jordan, and in East Jerusalem.

There will continue to be gadfly bombings all over Israel until Israel finally gets the will to get serious about the root of the problem -- the Palestinians themselves.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Judaism is a religion.  An American or Italian that practices Judaism forms part of the American or Italian people.  Why can't you understand that?



Being religious is NOT Jewish, it's an addiction of it's own.
A Cohen stays Cohen even if he isn't religious, Italians, Americans and Arabs recognize that.

Jews, Cohens and Israelites became a distinct nation long before Romans became Italians and Europeans became Americans.

Why can't you understand that?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanna check again, have you dug something that shows a DISTINCT culture or ANYTHING
> of these Arabs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the research I've been able to come up with there are two things distinct about the Palestinian culture.
> 
> 1.  They pronounce a single consonant slightly differently than other Arabic speakers.
> 
> 2.  The embroidery designs on their women's clothing (though common throughout Syria, Jordan and "Palestine") may have slightly different variations in different villages.
Click to expand...


That's interesting:

1. Gaza is in the southern border of the Levantine Arabic, but that doesn't make these people any different than Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians.
Hebrew has different pronunciations too but all who use them are Jews.
Maybe I don't see something, but how a common dialect distinguishes Arabs in the Jerusalem area from other Arabs?

2. Same here, probably a tribe thing?


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanna check again, have you dug something that shows a DISTINCT culture or ANYTHING
> of these Arabs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the research I've been able to come up with there are two things distinct about the Palestinian culture.
> 
> 1.  They pronounce a single consonant slightly differently than other Arabic speakers.
> 
> 2.  The embroidery designs on their women's clothing (though common throughout Syria, Jordan and "Palestine") may have slightly different variations in different villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's interesting:
> 
> 1. Gaza is in the southern border of the Levantine Arabic, but that doesn't make these people any different than Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians.
> Hebrew has different pronunciations too but all who use them are Jews.
> Maybe I don't see something, but how a common dialect distinguishes Arabs in the Jerusalem area from other Arabs?
> 
> 2. Same here, probably a tribe thing?
Click to expand...


Not a distinct culture.  Just some regional anomalies.  

Not that I reject the idea of Palestinian self-determination and sovereignty.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanna check again, have you dug something that shows a DISTINCT culture or ANYTHING
> of these Arabs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the research I've been able to come up with there are two things distinct about the Palestinian culture.
> 
> 1.  They pronounce a single consonant slightly differently than other Arabic speakers.
> 
> 2.  The embroidery designs on their women's clothing (though common throughout Syria, Jordan and "Palestine") may have slightly different variations in different villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's interesting:
> 
> 1. Gaza is in the southern border of the Levantine Arabic, but that doesn't make these people any different than Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians.
> Hebrew has different pronunciations too but all who use them are Jews.
> Maybe I don't see something, but how a common dialect distinguishes Arabs in the Jerusalem area from other Arabs?
> 
> 2. Same here, probably a tribe thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a distinct culture.  Just some regional anomalies.
> 
> Not that I reject the idea of Palestinian self-determination and sovereignty.
Click to expand...



Yes I get that, what you post seems reasonable.
But doesn't Palestine mean the whole Levant area for Arabs?


----------



## rylah

Let's say Arabs in the Jerusalem area get the full package and full control.
In 50-70 years do you see them develop towards their tribal identity like Dubai and Emirates, aim at reuniting the great Syria, or something else?


----------



## RoccoR

rylah, Shusha, et al,

Sorry to just jump right in here and insert myself.  I hate this description.  Its use raises more questions than is intended.



rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a distinct culture.  Just some regional anomalies.
> Not that I reject the idea of Palestinian self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I get that, what you post seems reasonable.
> But doesn't Palestine mean the whole Levant area for Arabs?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The "Levant" is a fairly large and indeterminate area, with no fixed or defined parameter, on an arc from somewhere along the Mediterranean Coast, just north of Alexandretta in the vicinity of the  Anatolia Border ---- down to the Bi'r Adb on the shore of the Sinai Peninsula with the Mediterranean Sea.  The Levant stretches out very nearly to Cyprus, and totally encompasses modern day Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, covering two-thirds of Syria, the western Provinces of Iraq and western Saudi Arabia on an arc from Ar'ar to al-Bi'r.  Its boundaries are very subjective.

Palestine in the concept of the Ottoman Empire, loosely described the Sanjuks of Beriut, Acre, al-Balqa, the western portion of Maan and Hauran; including the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem.  

The Palestine recognized by the Order in Council was that defined by the Allied Powers _(territory to which the Mandate Applies)_, surveyed and Partitioned.  It extended westward from the Iraqi border to the Mediterranean Sea, and south from the Paulet-Newcombe Line; to a line from the shore of Aqaba through Ratah to the Mediterranean.

Palestine in the contemporary sense, is described by the UN _(relative to the 1988 Independence)_ as "the territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem."

When using the term, it has to be made clear which timeframe to which you trying to apply the term.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> rylah, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Sorry to just jump right in here and insert myself.  I hate this description.  Its use raises more questions than is intended.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a distinct culture.  Just some regional anomalies.
> Not that I reject the idea of Palestinian self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I get that, what you post seems reasonable.
> But doesn't Palestine mean the whole Levant area for Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Levant" is a fairly large and indeterminate area, with no fixed or defined parameter, on an arc from somewhere along the Mediterranean Coast, just north of Alexandretta in the vicinity of the  Anatolia Border ---- down to the Bi'r Adb on the shore of the Sinai Peninsula with the Mediterranean Sea.  The Levant stretches out very nearly to Cyprus, and totally encompasses modern day Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, covering two-thirds of Syria, the western Provinces of Iraq and western Saudi Arabia on an arc from Ar'ar to al-Bi'r.  Its boundaries are very subjective.
> 
> Palestine in the concept of the Ottoman Empire, loosely described the Sanjuks of Beriut, Acre, al-Balqa, the western portion of Maan and Hauran; including the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem.
> 
> The Palestine recognized by the Order in Council was that defined by the Allied Powers _(territory to which the Mandate Applies)_, surveyed and Partitioned.  It extended westward from the Iraqi border to the Mediterranean Sea, and south from the Paulet-Newcombe Line; to a line from the shore of Aqaba through Ratah to the Mediterranean.
> 
> Palestine in the contemporary sense, is described by the UN _(relative to the 1988 Independence)_ as "the territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem."
> 
> When using the term, it has to be made clear which timeframe to which you trying to apply the term.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Thanks for the effort,

My conclusion from what you and Shusha presented is that the contemporary Palestinians are connected by dialect to other different distinct states and cultures that were once united under Sunni caliphate (Sham and Levant or Greater Syria).

Does it mean that what numerous tribes are trying to achieve now in Syria and Iraq under a caliph includes most of Israel and all of Palestine? 
Aren't Palestinians currently represented by Sunni muslim tribe leaders as well, and aim at the same goal?


----------



## RoccoR

ryiah, et al,

As a matter of pure understanding, the "Arabs" _(everyone with a connection by the language)_ do not have a set cultural objectives on which they agree.  Some of the Arabs, distinctive only by political subdivisions, don't even think in terms of a cultural future _(Syrians as an example - they just want to survive)_.

The "Arabs" _(everyone with a connection by the language)_ are themselves a component of the larger "Islamic World."  And the "Arabs" are connected in a sense, to the larger body, sensitive to its evolution and suffering.

The "Arabs" _(everyone with a connection by the language)_ do not have within their culture -- something in their cultural immune system that serves as an adhesive --- that binds them together.  In fact, the "Arabs" _(everyone with a connection by the language)_ are infected by a cultural cancer that is self destructive.

Sunni 'vs' Shia
Caliphate _(Example: DAESH)_ 'vs' Theocratic Pseudo-republic _(Example: Iran)_





rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Sorry to just jump right in here and insert myself.  I hate this description.  Its use raises more questions than is intended.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a distinct culture.  Just some regional anomalies.
> Not that I reject the idea of Palestinian self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I get that, what you post seems reasonable.
> But doesn't Palestine mean the whole Levant area for Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Levant" is a fairly large and indeterminate area, with no fixed or defined parameter, on an arc from somewhere along the Mediterranean Coast, just north of Alexandretta in the vicinity of the  Anatolia Border ---- down to the Bi'r Adb on the shore of the Sinai Peninsula with the Mediterranean Sea.  The Levant stretches out very nearly to Cyprus, and totally encompasses modern day Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, covering two-thirds of Syria, the western Provinces of Iraq and western Saudi Arabia on an arc from Ar'ar to al-Bi'r.  Its boundaries are very subjective.
> 
> Palestine in the concept of the Ottoman Empire, loosely described the Sanjuks of Beriut, Acre, al-Balqa, the western portion of Maan and Hauran; including the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem.
> 
> The Palestine recognized by the Order in Council was that defined by the Allied Powers _(territory to which the Mandate Applies)_, surveyed and Partitioned.  It extended westward from the Iraqi border to the Mediterranean Sea, and south from the Paulet-Newcombe Line; to a line from the shore of Aqaba through Ratah to the Mediterranean.
> 
> Palestine in the contemporary sense, is described by the UN _(relative to the 1988 Independence)_ as "the territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem."
> 
> When using the term, it has to be made clear which timeframe to which you trying to apply the term.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the effort,
> 
> My conclusion from what you and Shusha presented is that the contemporary Palestinians are connected by dialect to other different distinct states and cultures that were once united under Sunni caliphate (Sham and Levant or Greater Syria).
> 
> Does it mean that what numerous tribes are trying to achieve now in Syria and Iraq under a caliph includes most of Israel and all of Palestine?
> Aren't Palestinians currently represented by Sunni muslim tribe leaders as well, and aim at the same goal?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

When boiling this down and decoding the goals and objectives --- relative to the future of Arab Palestinians, we can see the cancer at work on a smaller scale.
What do the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) want?

•  They want a multifaceted struggle to continue until the goal is achieved:  Islam "obliterates" Israel.​What are they willing to do?

•  Theologically, generations of Arab Palestinians may be justified and sacrificed by the Islamic Resistance and Jihadist Fighters, to achieve this goal.​What is expected to unfold to make this a reality:

•  Terrorize and inflict such pain upon the Jewish National Home to a degree they will begin to retreat and eventually abandon Israel.
•  Create such political noise within the international community, that the international community will abandon Israel --- giving the Islamic Resistance, radical Islamist, Jihadists, and terrorists the advantage.
•  Create an international environment such that the Jewish National Home will not be allowed to legitimately defend itself.​Any "Arab" that is inclined to become active in the conduct of any bullet point, can become culturally related over time.

In this regard, the HoAP are actively working towards another setting the Middle East as an all Arab Region.  It could be the case that, at some time into the distant future, an all Arab Levant may be achieved under one common leadership.  But that is speculative and characterized by a very low probability of happening before the various cancers eat away popular support.

*(FINAL NOTE)*

The international community is very prone to ignoring the expansion of sovereign entities until huge conflicts become inevitable.   The expansion of Islamic fundamentalism, totalitarian Islamic radicalism, Jihadism, and Terrorism is exemplified by _(but not limited to) _the expansion of DAESH and the HoAP.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dareen Tatour*

Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.


----------



## Hollie

One of many Israelis stabbed by Islamic terrorists due to incitement and hatred promoted by the islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.



And rightfully so, since she threatened on said Facebook post that she would "become the next martyr" -- meaning she would attempt to murder some Israeli Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And rightfully so, since she threatened on said Facebook post that she would "become the next martyr" -- meaning she would attempt to murder some Israeli Jews.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

I saw this on several different media outlets.  

Dareen Tatour is among dozens of Palestinians arrested by Israel for incitement allegations over social media posts.  al-Jazeera 20 June 2016​

Israel puts poet under house arrest
The Electronic Intifada 22 April 2016

Poetic Injustice: Free Palestinian Poet Dareen Tatour!
Free Haifa~ Reading, Writing and Freedom Arithmetics​


P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And rightfully so, since she threatened on said Facebook post that she would "become the next martyr" -- meaning she would attempt to murder some Israeli Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.

•   Incitement to violence;
•   Supporting a terrorist organization;
•   Communicating a threat;
•   Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).​
The principle problem here is that the Israeli Security is damned if they take preventative action --- or damned if they don't respond.

•  If the security services ignored the implications, take no action and then a connected event to Tatour did occur, the security services will be accused of failing to perform due diligence (misfeasance).
•  If the security services take action to neutralize a potential threat, and nothing happens connected to Tatour, then again, the security services will be accused of failing to properly perform (misfeasance).​
So, if the security services will be accused of failing to perform (misfeasance); then they sure error on the side of caution and act to protect the citizenry.

The security services have a tough job to perform in the detection, identification, exploitation and neutralization of activities potentially supporting espionage, sabotage, subversion, and sedition.  There are all sorts of Hostile Arab Palestinians that generate news media frenzies like this just to promote unrest.  And if Tatour's action create any sort of unrest of seditious outcome, then conventional wisdom says "prosecute." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I saw this on several different media outlets.
> Dareen Tatour is among dozens of Palestinians arrested by Israel for incitement allegations over social media posts.  al-Jazeera 20 June 2016
> 
> Israel puts poet under house arrest
> The Electronic Intifada 22 April 2016
> 
> Poetic Injustice: Free Palestinian Poet Dareen Tatour!
> Free Haifa~ Reading, Writing and Freedom Arithmetics​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And rightfully so, since she threatened on said Facebook post that she would "become the next martyr" -- meaning she would attempt to murder some Israeli Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
> 
> •   Incitement to violence;
> •   Supporting a terrorist organization;
> •   Communicating a threat;
> •   Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).​
> The principle problem here is that the Israeli Security is damned if they take preventative action --- or damned if they don't respond.
> 
> •  If the security services ignored the implications, take no action and then a connected event to Tatour did occur, the security services will be accused of failing to perform due diligence (misfeasance).
> •  If the security services take action to neutralize a potential threat, and nothing happens connected to Tatour, then again, the security services will be accused of failing to properly perform (misfeasance).​
> So, if the security services will be accused of failing to perform (misfeasance); then they sure error on the side of caution and act to protect the citizenry.
> 
> The security services have a tough job to perform in the detection, identification, exploitation and neutralization of activities potentially supporting espionage, sabotage, subversion, and sedition.  There are all sorts of Hostile Arab Palestinians that generate news media frenzies like this just to promote unrest.  And if Tatour's action create any sort of unrest of seditious outcome, then conventional wisdom says "prosecute."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.

• Incitement to violence;
• Supporting a terrorist organization;
• Communicating a threat;
• Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).​
You forgot defending their rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And rightfully so, since she threatened on said Facebook post that she would "become the next martyr" -- meaning she would attempt to murder some Israeli Jews.
Click to expand...

Israel is shooting itself in the foot again. More fuel for BDS.







Ooooooo, terrorist!


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

OH, you are confused again.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
> 
> • Incitement to violence;
> • Supporting a terrorist organization;
> • Communicating a threat;
> • Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot defending their rights.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCES)*

Hague Regulation 1907
Article. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Article 68.  *Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,* but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, *shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed.* Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a *protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death *under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.

*(COMMENT)*

Well, you can encourage them to defend whatever; --- BUT at the end of the day it is illegal and punishable under the Geneva Convention.

It is the responsibility of the Occupation Force to maintain public order and safety.  

If you incite or otherwise encourage protected persons (Arab Palestinians) to harm the Occupation Power, cause serious damage to Occupation property or facilities, you are punishable under the law.  If you encourage the use of deadly force, causing the death of members of the Occupation Power, you are punishable under the law.

Do not make the mistake of trying to encourage Arab Palestinian who don't know any better, to disrupt public order and safety, or harm the Occupation Power, making them think that it is internationally protected.  It is simply not so.  No matter what bogus argument you claim, no matter which non-binding resolution you cite, the fact of the matter is:  it is punishable by law.

End of Story!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I saw this on several different media outlets.
> Dareen Tatour is among dozens of Palestinians arrested by Israel for incitement allegations over social media posts.  al-Jazeera 20 June 2016
> 
> Israel puts poet under house arrest
> The Electronic Intifada 22 April 2016
> 
> Poetic Injustice: Free Palestinian Poet Dareen Tatour!
> Free Haifa~ Reading, Writing and Freedom Arithmetics​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> Dareen was placed under Israeli administrative detention for a post on facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And rightfully so, since she threatened on said Facebook post that she would "become the next martyr" -- meaning she would attempt to murder some Israeli Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
> 
> •   Incitement to violence;
> •   Supporting a terrorist organization;
> •   Communicating a threat;
> •   Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).​
> The principle problem here is that the Israeli Security is damned if they take preventative action --- or damned if they don't respond.
> 
> •  If the security services ignored the implications, take no action and then a connected event to Tatour did occur, the security services will be accused of failing to perform due diligence (misfeasance).
> •  If the security services take action to neutralize a potential threat, and nothing happens connected to Tatour, then again, the security services will be accused of failing to properly perform (misfeasance).​
> So, if the security services will be accused of failing to perform (misfeasance); then they sure error on the side of caution and act to protect the citizenry.
> 
> The security services have a tough job to perform in the detection, identification, exploitation and neutralization of activities potentially supporting espionage, sabotage, subversion, and sedition.  There are all sorts of Hostile Arab Palestinians that generate news media frenzies like this just to promote unrest.  And if Tatour's action create any sort of unrest of seditious outcome, then conventional wisdom says "prosecute."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
> 
> • Incitement to violence;
> • Supporting a terrorist organization;
> • Communicating a threat;
> • Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).​
> You forgot defending their rights.
Click to expand...

You make the mistake of promoting the notion that

"• Incitement to violence;
• Supporting a terrorist organization;
• Communicating a threat;
• Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement)."

is somehow defending ones rights. Obviously, for you and those like you, it's easy and convenient to urge others to do so when others will suffer the consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH, you are confused again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
> 
> • Incitement to violence;
> • Supporting a terrorist organization;
> • Communicating a threat;
> • Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot defending their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> Hague Regulation 1907
> Article. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> Article 68.  *Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,* but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, *shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed.* Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a *protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death *under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, you can encourage them to defend whatever; --- BUT at the end of the day it is illegal and punishable under the Geneva Convention.
> 
> It is the responsibility of the Occupation Force to maintain public order and safety.
> 
> If you incite or otherwise encourage protected persons (Arab Palestinians) to harm the Occupation Power, cause serious damage to Occupation property or facilities, you are punishable under the law.  If you encourage the use of deadly force, causing the death of members of the Occupation Power, you are punishable under the law.
> 
> Do not make the mistake of trying to encourage Arab Palestinian who don't know any better, to disrupt public order and safety, or harm the Occupation Power, making them think that it is internationally protected.  It is simply not so.  No matter what bogus argument you claim, no matter which non-binding resolution you cite, the fact of the matter is:  it is punishable by law.
> 
> End of Story!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Hague Regulation 1907​
Article. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.​
The rules of occupation places many obligations and restrictions on the occupying power. Israel thumbs its big fat nose at every one of them.

Article 68 is a thread all by itself. There is a lot more to it than punishing supposed criminals. Let's just say that Israel does not have the structures in place to invoke article 68.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH, you are confused again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
> 
> • Incitement to violence;
> • Supporting a terrorist organization;
> • Communicating a threat;
> • Purposefully creating a confrontation (another form of incitement).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot defending their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> Hague Regulation 1907
> Article. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> Article 68.  *Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,* but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, *shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed.* Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a *protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death *under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, you can encourage them to defend whatever; --- BUT at the end of the day it is illegal and punishable under the Geneva Convention.
> 
> It is the responsibility of the Occupation Force to maintain public order and safety.
> 
> If you incite or otherwise encourage protected persons (Arab Palestinians) to harm the Occupation Power, cause serious damage to Occupation property or facilities, you are punishable under the law.  If you encourage the use of deadly force, causing the death of members of the Occupation Power, you are punishable under the law.
> 
> Do not make the mistake of trying to encourage Arab Palestinian who don't know any better, to disrupt public order and safety, or harm the Occupation Power, making them think that it is internationally protected.  It is simply not so.  No matter what bogus argument you claim, no matter which non-binding resolution you cite, the fact of the matter is:  it is punishable by law.
> 
> End of Story!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hague Regulation 1907
> Article. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.​
> The rules of occupation places many obligations and restrictions on the occupying power. Israel thumbs its big fat nose at every one of them.
> 
> Article 68 is a thread all by itself. There is a lot more to it than punishing supposed criminals. Let's just say that Israel does not have the structures in place to invoke article 68.
Click to expand...


There's an obvious case to be made that Article 43 simply doesn't apply with reference to the two competing Islamic terrorist franchises occupying the West Bank and Gaza. Further, "The authority of the legitimate power..." remains undefined now as it has during the recent history of the various Islamic terrorist franchises which have claimed authority over the disputed territories.


----------



## Shusha

Since when is threatening to murder Israeli Jews "defending your rights"?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Yes, my posting was a thumbnail view of an involved but _(oddly enough)_ not so complex or even _(as legal and judicial systems go)_ complicated.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hague Regulation 1907
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hague Regulation 1907
> Article. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The rules of occupation places many obligations and restrictions on the occupying power. Israel thumbs its big fat nose at every one of them.
> 
> Article 68 is a thread all by itself. There is a lot more to it than punishing supposed criminals. Let's just say that Israel does not have the structures in place to invoke article 68.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This point of the exchanged dialog was that Israel has an obligation to maintain public order and safety, AND it has the authority to investigate and apprehend Hostile Arab Palestinians that commit such crime as intending to harm the Occupation Power _(misdemeanor, felony and capital crimes)_.

*THE POINT: * It is not at all like, as you and your cohorts suggest, legal to target Israelis or otherwise commit crimes against the Occupation Power.

*(SIDE NOTE)*

Your implication that Israel does not have a system in place is absolutely wrong --- 100% wrong.  The system is complex mixture of:


•  Ottoman protocols
•  Remnants from Orders in Council and Citizenship Laws (as amended)
•  Mandate Regulations
•  Jordanian Laws
•  Israeli Law​
In terms of the mechanism, it has:

•  Local Arab Magistrate Courts
•  Multiple District Courts
•  Military Courts and Tribunals
•  Appeals Court​
I'm not in the legal or judicial system.  But I can tell you that there is a system and set of procedures and protocols in place to deal with the entire array of civil and criminal law issues.

You may not like the system.  I'm not sure if there is a perfect system anywhere in the world, but it is there.  And Arab Palestinians contribute to the process.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Palestinian girl (tourist) dancing in Italy has gone viral in Italy.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to ramble because you have lost the argument. There is no such place as khazaria or khzars outside of literature. This is proven by the failure to provide one mention of them prior to the middle of the 20C.   They are a LIE told by the RACIST JEW HATERS to incite violence against the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand nothing as it is your DNA and brainwashing talking.
> 
> The khazars are a LIE and never existed, if they had then the history books would be full of them. Not a whisper or a mention until the mid 20C when Israel won the war in 1967 and reclaimed their stolen lands. So the Russians gave the arab muslims two books and told them to use them against Israel. A pity the Internet came along and blew them both out of the water.
> 
> It is you in denial because your belief's have been burst apart and you have nothing left
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,there land is still stole bbut the perpetrators,that are still there.Those would be khzarians that is not there land.There will be Peace when the Real Jews Have There Land Back.You just can`t seem to grasp this conceptual fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LINK to the evidence of these khazars that have never existed outside of islamonazi fantasies. The real Jews are claiming back their lands now, and they come from all over this planet. They are not sub Saharan muslims pretending to be Jews that have invaded Israel, nor are they N.K. Jews who think they are the ruling class and should be kicked out of Israel.
> 
> 
> You cant grasp that there was never a place called khazaria and that the 6 million Jews in Israel originated from 4 Turkish women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay we`re not going back over the same thing.I showed you the real Jew and they ARE NOT WHITE,THEY ARE DARK SKIN EVEN JET BLACK.Quit being stupid.
Click to expand...







 So explain the Jews that never left Palestine and kept their blood pure, resulting in fair skinned and fair haired people. You are employing racism once again to prove that the only real Jews are African negro's. The last 2000 years has been long enough for the people to acclimatise to their surroundings through genetic mutations. Any race can be any colour as shown by the afro Americans that are getting lighter skinned all the time.

 Now find one reference to Khazaria in any valid historical record prior to 1950 to prove your claims. When you do it will be the first one ever provided by anti Jew factions all over the world. All we have had is hanging heads and mumblings of " cos I say so "


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the racist terms and words in my posts ?
> 
> 
> 
> All what you`ve posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can`t or don`t see it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No because I come from a nation with very strict racism laws, so we learnt not to be racist in word or deed. Everything I have said is based on the truth meaning it cant be racist, unless you are a muslim then any criticism of islam or the muslims is racism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well im not muslim.see just the fact that you cannot see racism because you are racist 1,it benefits you 2.And it does benefit the caucasians.
Click to expand...






Yes I am racist, and with good cause due to the evidence available showing that certain races are inherently incapable of certain tasks.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Palestinian girl (tourist) dancing in Italy has gone viral in Italy.









 In Palestine she would have been stoned for being a prostitute and bringing dishonour on her family


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lara Kiswani*
> 
> **
> **







 Once again all you have is islamonazi propaganda and Palestinian talking points that have no basis in truth or reality. Proven by the recent  blood libel regarding poisoned wells.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lara Kiswani*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> the are in with the real or true  Palestinians.no doubt.The ones in your video are mixed.And it is not their land.
Click to expand...








 Those are Ethiopean Jews who were part of the diaspora 2000 years ago, of course they will be dark skinned after acclimatisation through mutation. As in a child born with blue eye's because both parents have blue eye's.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
Click to expand...







 Yes and they are olive skinned dark eyed Jews that have 4,500 years of history on the land. The arab muslims have no legal or moral claims to the land and should be evicted


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy ram-odon-a-ding-Don
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is teaching its population that the conflict with Israel is based on a religious ruling which is identical to a significant religious ruling of Hamas. This Islamic religious ruling holds that all the land of the State of Israel is an inalienable religious endowment - a _waqf_ - of which it is "forbidden to relinquish a single grain of soil." This means that Palestinians are prohibited from accepting Israel's existence in any borders as that is violating the _waqf_.
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
Click to expand...








 Actually you will as it is one of the laws of nature, and it is noticeable after just a short time of 3 to 5 generations. You don't need the carcinogenic pigments for protection so you lose them over time.


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Less simplified this true jews us are in our true land,Israel is still capture by those invaders that suckered all people except  a few,That whole land being run over by intruders Fake jew-ish scum in Israel,just as here america invaders captured this land it is not nor can be caucasians land.









 Nor can it be Negro's land, or Mongolian land. It is Judea that is inhabited by the Jews and no usurpers can claim that it is African land.  Look at the map and see how far north Israel is compared to the horn of Africa, and work out skin tones for that latitude right round the world


----------



## gt1085

Wow,Wrong,See caucasians should just do caucasians only,You do not about our history and you won`t until we teach it.So at this rate you will never know and we know this ,You just don`t.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nice reporting.But he mixed too and is not his birth right to that land,their are still original people left in that land .caucasians have`nt killed them all yet atleast not yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think that everyone in the Middle East is Black like you?  In fact, most appear to be of the Caucasian race, just a little darker than Europeans because they are closer to the Equator..  Perhaps you should stick to pushing your clothing line Melanin Apparel which was your avatar the other day.  The members of the Boko Harfam will really go for those clothes.
> 
> Of course there are those here who overlook something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not that it matters,Yes all like me, they were all black before the introduction to white people,and they slept with them the ones you see today are those,same thing in china,you want see the originals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too obsessed over race.  You can believe all you want to, but if you look at the people closer to the Equator, they are very dark and as you move further away you see they keep on getting lighter because they don't need a dark skin as protection against the sun.  Why do you think the Ethiopians are not as dark as those in the Congo, or why the people in Northern Africa,  for example Morocco, look quite Caucasian? Now instead of being concerned with what race the Arabs are, why don't you design more T-Shirts.  Perhaps a big department store will take on  your collection and you will have famous people like Kanye West buying dozens of them, or maybe some of the viewers will fall in love with your line and do some on-line shopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you,i do ,But Moroccoian are as black very dark,so were the true Arabs.And it doesn`t matter if stay in the pole or equator if you dark you will be dark 100 or more at the poles and nevr loose melanin.Maybe you need to research alil better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually you will as it is one of the laws of nature, and it is noticeable after just a short time of 3 to 5 generations. You don't need the carcinogenic pigments for protection so you lose them over time.
Click to expand...

you will need *melanin to be 100% percent either man or woman.i won`t get into all that people really would get confused.Have to keep it simple to try and get the very simple a piece of knowledge.*


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lara Kiswani*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> the are in with the real or true  Palestinians.no doubt.The ones in your video are mixed.And it is not their land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are Ethiopean Jews who were part of the diaspora 2000 years ago, of course they will be dark skinned after acclimatisation through mutation. As in a child born with blue eye's because both parents have blue eye's.
Click to expand...

lol no,no Africans are the first all others come from them,and caucasians were made by the Africans.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All what you`ve posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can`t or don`t see it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No because I come from a nation with very strict racism laws, so we learnt not to be racist in word or deed. Everything I have said is based on the truth meaning it cant be racist, unless you are a muslim then any criticism of islam or the muslims is racism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well im not muslim.see just the fact that you cannot see racism because you are racist 1,it benefits you 2.And it does benefit the caucasians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I am racist, and with good cause due to the evidence available showing that certain races are inherently incapable of certain tasks.
Click to expand...

i agree totally "certain" lol i won`t use that,I`ll use it real caucasians  races are inherently incapable of certain tasks,this is impossible for so-called white [people to do].


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look I Understand You Better Than You Think.Denial is in your dna make too even you know this,but like i said i`m done conversation grow up come back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand nothing as it is your DNA and brainwashing talking.
> 
> The khazars are a LIE and never existed, if they had then the history books would be full of them. Not a whisper or a mention until the mid 20C when Israel won the war in 1967 and reclaimed their stolen lands. So the Russians gave the arab muslims two books and told them to use them against Israel. A pity the Internet came along and blew them both out of the water.
> 
> It is you in denial because your belief's have been burst apart and you have nothing left
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,there land is still stole bbut the perpetrators,that are still there.Those would be khzarians that is not there land.There will be Peace when the Real Jews Have There Land Back.You just can`t seem to grasp this conceptual fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LINK to the evidence of these khazars that have never existed outside of islamonazi fantasies. The real Jews are claiming back their lands now, and they come from all over this planet. They are not sub Saharan muslims pretending to be Jews that have invaded Israel, nor are they N.K. Jews who think they are the ruling class and should be kicked out of Israel.
> 
> 
> You cant grasp that there was never a place called khazaria and that the 6 million Jews in Israel originated from 4 Turkish women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay we`re not going back over the same thing.I showed you the real Jew and they ARE NOT WHITE,THEY ARE DARK SKIN EVEN JET BLACK.Quit being stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So explain the Jews that never left Palestine and kept their blood pure, resulting in fair skinned and fair haired people. You are employing racism once again to prove that the only real Jews are African negro's. The last 2000 years has been long enough for the people to acclimatise to their surroundings through genetic mutations. Any race can be any colour as shown by the afro Americans that are getting lighter skinned all the time.
> 
> Now find one reference to Khazaria in any valid historical record prior to 1950 to prove your claims. When you do it will be the first one ever provided by anti Jew factions all over the world. All we have had is hanging heads and mumblings of " cos I say so "
Click to expand...

Masaaan,Africans are the PEOPLE OF THAT LAND THEY DO NOT MUTATE WHITE PEOPLE MUTATE,MUTATED,EVOLVED,YOU ARE OUR REASOLELUTION AND REVELOTION.PLEASE LESS JUST DROP THIS CONVERSATION.PEOPLE ARE JUST DUMB HEAR SAYERS IS ALL I HEAR.


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All what you`ve posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can`t or don`t see it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No because I come from a nation with very strict racism laws, so we learnt not to be racist in word or deed. Everything I have said is based on the truth meaning it cant be racist, unless you are a muslim then any criticism of islam or the muslims is racism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well im not muslim.see just the fact that you cannot see racism because you are racist 1,it benefits you 2.And it does benefit the caucasians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I am racist, and with good cause due to the evidence available showing that certain races are inherently incapable of certain tasks.
Click to expand...

ancient black people of europe | Black Spark, White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less simplified this true jews us are in our true land,Israel is still capture by those invaders that suckered all people except  a few,That whole land being run over by intruders Fake jew-ish scum in Israel,just as here america invaders captured this land it is not nor can be caucasians land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nor can it be Negro's land, or Mongolian land. It is Judea that is inhabited by the Jews and no usurpers can claim that it is African land.  Look at the map and see how far north Israel is compared to the horn of Africa, and work out skin tones for that latitude right round the world
Click to expand...

Black Arabians


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Wow,Wrong,See caucasians should just do caucasians only,You do not about our history and you won`t until we teach it.So at this rate you will never know and we know this ,You just don`t.








NO I AM RIGHT


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not good enough as that shows nothing, give examples of racism ?
> 
> 
> 
> You really can`t or don`t see it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No because I come from a nation with very strict racism laws, so we learnt not to be racist in word or deed. Everything I have said is based on the truth meaning it cant be racist, unless you are a muslim then any criticism of islam or the muslims is racism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well im not muslim.see just the fact that you cannot see racism because you are racist 1,it benefits you 2.And it does benefit the caucasians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I am racist, and with good cause due to the evidence available showing that certain races are inherently incapable of certain tasks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ancient black people of europe | Black Spark, White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe
Click to expand...







 If they did they left none  behind them


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


>


Thanks,But ,no thank you don`t watch propaganda.Not Until You Get It Right.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist parade.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Artist Emily Jacir Brings the Palestinian Experience to the Venice Biennale *

At the Venice Biennale, the oldest and most prestigious international biennial art exhibition in the world, we speak with one of the most celebrated Palestinian artists, Emily Jacir. In 2007, she won the Golden Lion here at the Venice Biennale for her work "Material for a Film," a large-scale installation based on the life of Palestinian writer Wael Zuaiter, who was assassinated near his home in Rome, Italy, by Israeli Mossad agents in 1972. For years Jacir has created groundbreaking art to capture the Palestinian experience and other issues. In 2001, she presented a piece titled "Memorial to 418 Palestinian Villages Destroyed, Depopulated, and Occupied by Israel in 1948," consisting of a large refugee tent on which the names of 418 Palestinians villages were embroidered. She later did a project called "ex libris" that commemorated the approximately 30,000 books from Palestinian homes, libraries and institutions that were looted by Israeli authorities in 1948.

**


----------



## gt1085

P F Tinmore said:


>


lol,those are caucasians,lol.Posing as something their not .as usual.


----------



## theliq

Wrong gt1085....look if you are going to Post on here at least have some semblance of honesty......if you find these piquant situations too difficult to handle,you do put yourself in the situation of being a Bore.Which you are...YAWN


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists and the Gaza experience.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>











 Off topic deflection again


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol,those are caucasians,lol.Posing as something their not .as usual.
Click to expand...









 RACIST CLOWN


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol,those are caucasians,lol.Posing as something their not .as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RACIST CLOWN
Click to expand...

lol,you common.


----------



## gt1085

theliq said:


> Wrong gt1085....look if you are going to Post on here at least have some semblance of honesty......if you find these piquant situations too difficult to handle,you do put yourself in the situation of being a Bore.Which you are...YAWN


Thanks but a chimp does`nt now how to study history and go by HEARSAY Kind Like You.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2010 Eqbal Ahmad Lecture • Karma Nabulsi • Hampshire College *

**


----------



## Phoenall

gt1085 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol,those are caucasians,lol.Posing as something their not .as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RACIST CLOWN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,you common.
Click to expand...







 No I am not.     but you are still a RACIST CLOWN as your every post shows


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *2010 Eqbal Ahmad Lecture • Karma Nabulsi • Hampshire College *
> 
> **









 And all this proves is that you can find videos that support your POV, usually presented by islamonazi propagandists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *2010 Eqbal Ahmad Lecture • Karma Nabulsi • Hampshire College *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And all this proves is that you can find videos that support your POV, usually presented by islamonazi propagandists
Click to expand...

islamonazi *islamonazi* *islamonazi* *islamonazi* *islamonazi *

Phoenall exposes the entirety of his knowledge.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arabs-Moslem Death Cultists?

SICK: Palestinian Family Gets Birthday Cake Commemorating Son’s Terrorism - Counter Jihad

*SICK: Palestinian Family Gets Birthday Cake Commemorating Son’s Terrorism*

A ghoulish birthday cake made for a Palestinian ‘martyr’ epitomizes the Islamist culture of death.


Palestinian news sites published on Wednesday photos of a “birthday cake” made for Muhammad Ali, who attacked two Israel Police officers at Nablus Gate in Jerusalem in October and was killed in the incident. He was 19 at the time. Printed on the cake is a photograph is a picture of his attack from security footage in which he is stabbing a policeman.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arabs-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## gt1085

Phoenall said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol,those are caucasians,lol.Posing as something their not .as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RACIST CLOWN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol,you common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I am not.     but you are still a RACIST CLOWN as your every post shows
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

gt1085 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong gt1085....look if you are going to Post on here at least have some semblance of honesty......if you find these piquant situations too difficult to handle,you do put yourself in the situation of being a Bore.Which you are...YAWN
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but a chimp does`nt now how to study history and go by HEARSAY Kind Like You.
Click to expand...

If only that were true GT,as I said Piquantly Boring but keep trying,because You are very Trying..steven


----------



## gt1085

theliq said:


> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong gt1085....look if you are going to Post on here at least have some semblance of honesty......if you find these piquant situations too difficult to handle,you do put yourself in the situation of being a Bore.Which you are...YAWN
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but a chimp does`nt now how to study history and go by HEARSAY Kind Like You.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If only that were true GT,as I said Piquantly Boring but keep trying,because You are very Trying..steven
Click to expand...

good then it`s not for you and you farytail stories.


----------



## theliq

gt1085 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gt1085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong gt1085....look if you are going to Post on here at least have some semblance of honesty......if you find these piquant situations too difficult to handle,you do put yourself in the situation of being a Bore.Which you are...YAWN
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but a chimp does`nt now how to study history and go by HEARSAY Kind Like You.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If only that were true GT,as I said Piquantly Boring but keep trying,because You are very Trying..steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good then it`s not for you and you farytail stories.
Click to expand...

So you are thinned skinned too


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *2010 Eqbal Ahmad Lecture • Karma Nabulsi • Hampshire College *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And all this proves is that you can find videos that support your POV, usually presented by islamonazi propagandists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> islamonazi *islamonazi* *islamonazi* *islamonazi* *islamonazi *
> 
> Phoenall exposes the entirety of his knowledge.
Click to expand...








 Proving yet again that you dont have a clue about source of your evidence, and blindly post what you believe to be unbiased links.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>










 Just more islamonazi propaganda from 2013. Have you any evidence that is not based on blood libels, lies and false testimony


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>









 Anything of any relevance to the topic other than your libels and lies you are so fond of


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **



So what's the issue?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **








 Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA


----------



## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what's the issue?
Click to expand...







 Islamonazi propaganda and blood libels, about all he has these days


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
Click to expand...

Court of law. 





BTW, what were the charges?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, what were the charges?



She plead guilty to I think 12 (?) different charges including belonging to a terrorist organization and incitement to terrorism. She apparently called for the kidnapping of IDF soldiers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She plead guilty to I think 12 (?) different charges including belonging to a terrorist organization and incitement to terrorism. She apparently called for the kidnapping of IDF soldiers.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She plead guilty to I think 12 (?) different charges including belonging to a terrorist organization and incitement to terrorism. She apparently called for the kidnapping of IDF soldiers.
Click to expand...

She apparently called for the kidnapping of IDF soldiers.​You capture soldiers. Kidnap is a term used by propaganda sites.


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
Click to expand...

It is unfortunate that one of Australia's national emblems has to be used in the cartoon,anyhow how did the term "KANGAROO COURT" come into being Tinnie!!!!
Keep up the fight Tinnie..Respect...steve


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
Click to expand...







 Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation
Click to expand...

That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.

BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She plead guilty to I think 12 (?) different charges including belonging to a terrorist organization and incitement to terrorism. She apparently called for the kidnapping of IDF soldiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...







 Read your own it is in there for all to see.


----------



## Phoenall

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is unfortunate that one of Australia's national emblems has to be used in the cartoon,anyhow how did the term "KANGAROO COURT" come into being Tinnie!!!!
> Keep up the fight Tinnie..Respect...steve
Click to expand...








 What fight, you lost the fight the day you where whelped. The truth will out and put you on your back foot again.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.
> 
> BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.
Click to expand...






 IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.

 Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.



KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT


----------



## P F Tinmore

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is unfortunate that one of Australia's national emblems has to be used in the cartoon,anyhow how did the term "KANGAROO COURT" come into being Tinnie!!!!
> Keep up the fight Tinnie..Respect...steve
Click to expand...

 I think the term is older than I am.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.
> 
> BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.
> 
> Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.
> 
> 
> 
> KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT
Click to expand...

All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
> 
> 
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.
> 
> BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.
> 
> Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.
> 
> 
> 
> KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)
Click to expand...








 Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.

 You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.
> 
> BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.
> 
> Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.
> 
> 
> 
> KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.
> 
> You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept
Click to expand...

She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt you read your own link where it said she was involved in a terrorist organisation
> 
> 
> 
> That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.
> 
> BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.
> 
> Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.
> 
> 
> 
> KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.
> 
> You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.
Click to expand...






 She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court. 


 DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a foreign, political designation. Where she lives the PFLP is a constitutionally protected political party.
> 
> BTW, parliamentarians are supposed to have diplomatic immunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.
> 
> Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.
> 
> 
> 
> KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.
> 
> You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept
> 
> Click to expand...
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> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.
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> She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court.
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> 
> DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF
Click to expand...

Link?


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.



THAT is actually a very good point.


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## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> theliq said:
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> *Khalida Jarrar*
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> Press TV is that the best you have, and she was tried in a court of law and found guilty of as crime that would have seen her go down for 10 years in the USA
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Court of law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, what were the charges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is unfortunate that one of Australia's national emblems has to be used in the cartoon,anyhow how did the term "KANGAROO COURT" come into being Tinnie!!!!
> Keep up the fight Tinnie..Respect...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the term is older than I am.
Click to expand...

It originated in the Gold Fields of the Yukon........steve


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> 
> IRRELEVANT as it is multi national designation, and it does not protect her from charges of terrorism or incitement to terrorism.
> 
> Only outside their own nation, you really need to look these things up. In the UK we have Parliamentary Privilege that means you cant be sued for libel or slander. It does not mean you cant be arrested and charged for other crimes in your own nation.
> 
> 
> 
> KEEP TRYING ONE DAY YOU WILL GET IT RIGHT
> 
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> 
> All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Dont you bother to read your own that said just this, shows how desperate you are to demonise the Jews in any way possible.
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> Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.
> 
> You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
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> 
> 
> She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court.
> 
> 
> DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> All political name calling aside, What did she do? She has never left Ramallah (except for medical treatment once)
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> Dont you bother to read your own that said just this, shows how desperate you are to demonise the Jews in any way possible.
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> 
> Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.
> 
> You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court.
> 
> 
> DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Link?


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Dont you bother to read your own that said just this, shows how desperate you are to demonise the Jews in any way possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing other than a deflection and a derailment.
> 
> You have been told what she did  and she paid the price for her crimes legally and above board. If she does not like Israeli jurisprudence she can always leave and give up her citizenship. With citizenship goes responsibilty, and you muslims cant seem to grasp that concept
> 
> 
> 
> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court.
> 
> 
> DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...







 Read the one you provided as it is in there, or do you just post what you are told to post ?


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> She violated no laws where she lives and works. She lives in area A. The PA should have handled any violations.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court.
> 
> 
> DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Read the one you provided as it is in there, or do you just post what you are told to post ?
Click to expand...

Here is the Amnesty International report.

PALESTINIAN PARLIAMENTARIAN SENTENCED: AMNESTY JAPAN

It shows you that Israel is a shit country.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> She often travels to Israel where she was in breach of the laws, and her crime is covered by the international arrest warrant. She committed the crimes in Israel so she faced an Israeli court.
> 
> 
> DO PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU ARE MAKING A RIGHT FOOL OF YOURSELF
> 
> 
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> Link?
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> 
> Read the one you provided as it is in there, or do you just post what you are told to post ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is the Amnesty International report.
> 
> PALESTINIAN PARLIAMENTARIAN SENTENCED: AMNESTY JAPAN
> 
> It shows you that Israel is a shit country.
Click to expand...



 And it clearly says that she admitted to the crimes, and as usual told a pack of lies to cover them up. A.I. did not say what you are trying to peddle, they said THIS IS WHAT SHE CLAIMS and until evidence is brought to bear it is just propaganda. She was convicted and got of lightly compared to what she would have got had she been in the USA, I believe they have a womens death row for criminals like her.  No court would sanction her plotting to kidnap people as a political statement, and she should have been given a life sentence in solitary for her crime against humanity.




 KEEP TRYING TO SUPPORT ISLAMONAZI TERRORISM AS ONE DAY IT WILL BITE YOUR ASS


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## yiostheoy

Right about now I don't believe anyone gives a flying fokk about the Palestinians.

All eyes are on Dallas, and wacko negroes protesting and rioting and shooting cops everywhere.

So give your Palestinian crap a rest for a couple of weeks while the USA recovers from the worst slaughter of law enforcement since Sept 11 2001.

And then we can get back to Palestinian terrorism afterwards.


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Abir Kopty*

**


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Abir Kopty*
> 
> **









 Nothing in English or that is not neo marxist/islamonazi. Is this all you have to play with after seeing all your other links debunked and destroyed because of the LIES and BLOOD LIBELS they contain


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Zena Agha*

**


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Zena Agha*
> 
> **









 Does she work for pallywood by any chance, as her words are pure islamonazi propaganda and iranian taliking points


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## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

PA Monument for Murder - PMW Bulletins

*PA Monument for Murder*

*PA and PLO dedicate monument to killer of 15*







Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Next week, the Palestinian Authority and the PLO will be dedicating a monument to Abu Sukkar, a terrorist who murdered 15 by filling a refrigerator with explosives and detonating it on Jaffa Street in Jerusalem in 1975.


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## gt1085

theliq said:


> gt1085 said:
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> Wrong gt1085....look if you are going to Post on here at least have some semblance of honesty......if you find these piquant situations too difficult to handle,you do put yourself in the situation of being a Bore.Which you are...YAWN
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but a chimp does`nt now how to study history and go by HEARSAY Kind Like You.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If only that were true GT,as I said Piquantly Boring but keep trying,because You are very Trying..steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good then it`s not for you and you farytail stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are thinned skinned too
Click to expand...

Taa.


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rania Khalek *

**


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek *
> 
> **









 Sourced from pakistan defence official making it islamonazi propaganda and palestinian talking points.


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek *
> 
> **
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> Sourced from pakistan defence official making it islamonazi propaganda and palestinian talking points.
Click to expand...

Is islamonazi the pinnacle of your intelligence?


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## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?

Another PA monument dedicated to “heroic” murderer - PMW Bulletins


The Palestinian Authority went through with its plans yesterday to establish a monument honoring the terrorist Ahmad Jabarah Abu Sukkar, who planned the detonation of a bomb-laden refrigerator in the center of Jerusalem, murdering 15 people in 1976. A few days ago, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu publicly asked Mahmoud Abbas to cancel the event because of the negative impact terror glorification has on children:

*Netanyahu: *"Rather than dedicate a statue to a mass-murderer, I ask that you consider honoring a champion of co-existence. This will help educate future generations to love peace over war, compassion over violence.”
[Israeli Prime Minister's YouTube channel, July 15, 2016]


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Who are the Palestinians?
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> *Rania Khalek *
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> **
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> Sourced from pakistan defence official making it islamonazi propaganda and palestinian talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is islamonazi the pinnacle of your intelligence?
Click to expand...







NOPE but it seems to be yours as that is all you rely on for evidence.    As here using a pakistani source which is an islamic state making it islamonazi propaganda.


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## P F Tinmore

*Mariam Barghouti*

Israel's "justice" system.

**


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mariam Barghouti*
> 
> Israel's "justice" system.
> 
> **







 A one sided anti Jewish rant by an islamonazi propagandist.   That is all you have these days to support your Jew hatred


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> *Mariam Barghouti*
> 
> Israel's "justice" system.
> 
> **
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> 
> A one sided anti Jewish rant by an islamonazi propagandist.   That is all you have these days to support your Jew hatred
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, islamonazi blah, blah. blah.

That's all you have.


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## yiostheoy

Ok I have just experimented to see how many spam posters I needed to put on the ignore list for this worthless thread to stop coming up.  Now I get to see if it worked.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mariam Barghouti*
> 
> Israel's "justice" system.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one sided anti Jewish rant by an islamonazi propagandist.   That is all you have these days to support your Jew hatred
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, islamonazi blah, blah. blah.
> 
> That's all you have.
Click to expand...






 No I have facts and reality supporting my claims, it is you that only has islamonazi propaganda. Where was the unbiased side of het argument showing that the palestinians are illegal immigrants and terrorists ?


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## Phoenall

yiostheoy said:


> Ok I have just experimented to see how many spam posters I needed to put on the ignore list for this worthless thread to stop coming up.  Now I get to see if it worked.








 You will still see the supporters of Israel posts against the nazi's who deny the rights of the Jews


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## yiostheoy

Looks like I still need to add a few more to the ignore list to kill this useless thread.


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## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek *
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> **
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> Sourced from pakistan defence official making it islamonazi propaganda and palestinian talking points.
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> 
> Is islamonazi the pinnacle of your intelligence?
Click to expand...

By Jove, your vocabulary is increasing by leaps and bounds,((( "Tinmore."))) Pretty soon we peasants will have to employ a lexicon to understand your blabber. Did you ingest some smart pills?


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## Phoenall

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek *
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> **
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> Sourced from pakistan defence official making it islamonazi propaganda and palestinian talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is islamonazi the pinnacle of your intelligence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By Jove, your vocabulary is increasing by leaps and bounds,((( "Tinmore."))) Pretty soon we peasants will have to employ a lexicon to understand your blabber. Did you ingest some smart pills?
Click to expand...






 He found a 10 year old to write his replies for him.................


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## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **








 And your source is the real news that well known bastion of islamonazi propaganda and LIES


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your source is the real news that well known bastion of islamonazi propaganda and LIES
Click to expand...

Islamonazi  You are a hoot!!!


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your source is the real news that well known bastion of islamonazi propaganda and LIES
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamonazi  You are a hoot!!!
Click to expand...







 No the source is an islamionazi propaganda outlet.   Just look it up on the interweb


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## Hollie

Who are the Pal'stanian Islamic terrorists?

Workin' for da' man. 

*Why Palestinians prefer to work
for Israeli employers

Why Palestinians prefer to work for Israeli employers - PMW Bulletins*


*PA Central Bureau of Statistics: Israelis pay Palestinian workers twice what they are paid by Palestinian employers *

*Israeli Arab attorney: The Israeli labor law is very good. Unfortunately Palestinian middlemen steal half or two thirds of women's salaries*

*Palestinian worker: Double salary draws Palestinian workers to Israel; in the PA they suffer exploitation*

*Statistic: "120,000 [Palestinians] work in Israel and the settlements" [Official PA TV, Workers' Affairs, May 11, 2016]*
*
*


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## Hollie

Once again, we peer into the Death Cult fantasy world of the Arabs-Moslems who fancifully refer to themselves as "Pal'istanians"

PA leaders honor killer of 15 at dedication of monument in his name:  Terrorist was "a real man, a fighter... We are proud of him as one of the symbols of the Palestinian national struggle" - Glorifying terrorists and terror | PMW

PA leaders honor killer of 15 at dedication of monument in his name: Terrorist was "a real man, a fighter... We are proud of him as one of the symbols of the Palestinian national struggle"
Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - July 18, 2016


It us truly a shame such a Death Cult is literally maintained and funded by a UN agency whose sole purpose is to fund various islamis terrorist organizations. It's truly a shame that Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians will willingly sacrifice themselves and those around them in the service of a UN funded Death Cult.

It's truly an inversion of rational thinking to propose the intentional mass slaughter of civilians as praiseworthy or heroic but then, the Death Cult otherwise called "Islam" does raise generation after generation of brain-dead islamo-bots who buy this nonsense hook, line and sinker.


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## Mindful

CONCLUSION: "This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan. 

So, enough of this nonsense about the Palestinians all being an ancient people going back to the Jebusites. 

The Arab Palestinian identity dates to after this encyclopedia entry was written."

The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian


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## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> CONCLUSION: "This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan.
> 
> So, enough of this nonsense about the Palestinians all being an ancient people going back to the Jebusites.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian identity dates to after this encyclopedia entry was written."
> 
> The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian


I just received my info E-mail ftom the ME Forum a few minutes ago with the same article by Pipes. The Pro-Palis won't open your link so I am printing the whole thing.

*The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian*
*by Daniel Pipes  •  Jul 31, 2016
Cross-posted from Danielpipes.org*

*The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian*








*Robert Alexander Stewart Macalister*

As several authors (Aryeh L. Avneri, Joan Peters, Fred M. Gottheil) have shown, the non-Jewish population of Palestine grew because of the many in-migrants who came to work at Zionist economic enterprises. But it's also worth noting that, even before that immigration began, this small territory was already filled with a wide range of peoples.

The famed _Encyclopædia Britannica_, 11th edition, dating from 1910-11, antedating the British conquest of the area, provides colorful information on these peoples. The entry _Palestine_ in vol. 20, by the Irish archeologist Robert Alexander Stewart Macalister, delineates Palestine

as the strip of land extending along the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea from the mouth of the Litany ... southward to ... a short distance south of Gaza. ... Eastward ... the line of the pilgrim road from Damascus to Mecca is the most convenient possible boundary. (p. 601)

The map below shows what's meant (in modern terms, more or less northern Israel and northeastern Jordan) by Palestine.

Macalister's section on the population of Palestine stresses its diversity.







*Map of Palestine, Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. vol. 20, p. 602.*

The inhabitants of Palestine are composed of a large number of elements, differing widely in ethnological affinities, language and religion. It may be interesting to mention, as an illustration of their hetereogeneousness, that early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages, spoken in Jerusalem as vernaculars, was there drawn up by a party of men whose various official positions enabled them to possess accurate information on the subject.

A footnote adds that only 30 languages are regularly used but that too is "a sufficient number ... to indicate the cosmopolitan nature of the city." This complexity makes it "no easy task to write concisely and at the same time with sufficient fullness on the ethnology of Palestine," whose population Macalister roughly estimates to be 650,000. Nevertheless, he plunges ahead in an 850-word summary, provided here in its entirety, with additional paragraphing inserted for easier reading:

There are two classes into which the population of Palestine can be divided - the nomadic and the sedentary. The former is especially characteristic of Eastern Palestine, though Western Palestine also contains its full share. The pure Arab origin of the Bedouins is recognized in common conversation in the country, the word "Arab" being almost restricted to denote these wanders and seldom applied to the dwellers in towns and villages.

It should be mentioned that there is a third, entirely independent, nomad race, the despised Nowar [Nawar], who correspond to the gipsies or tinkers of European countries. These people live under the poorest conditions, by doing smith's work; they speak among themselves a Romani dialect, much contaminated with Arabic in its vocabulary.

The _EB_ deals quickly with the sedentaries:

The sedentary population of the country villages - the fellahin, or agriculturists - is, on the whole, comparatively unmixed; but traces of various intrusive strains assert themselves. It is by no means unreasonable to suppose that there is a fundamental Canaanite element in this population: the "hewers of wood and drawers of water" often remain undisturbed through successive occupations of a land; and there is a remarkable correspondence of type between many of the modern fellahin and skeletons of ancient inhabitants which have been recovered in the course of excavation.

The focus is on the waves of foreign colonization:

New elements no doubt came in under the Assyrian, Persian and Roman dominations, and in more recent times there has been much contamination.

The spread of Islam introduced a very considerable Neo-Arabian infusion. Those from southern Arabia were known as the Yaman tribe, those from northern Arabia the Kais (Qais). These two divisions absorbed the previous peasant population, and still nominally exist; down to the middle of the 19th century they were a fruitful source of quarrels and of bloodshed. The two great clans were further subdivided into families, but these minor divisions are also being gradually broken down. In the 19th century the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages. These newcomers have not been completely assimilated with the villagers among whom they have found a home; the latter despise them, and discourage intermarriage.

Villages contain some Christians:

Some of the larger villages - notably Bethlehem - which have always been leavened by Christianity, and with the development of industry have become comparatively prosperous, show tangible results of these happier circumstances in a higher standard of physique among the men and of personal appearance among the women. It is not uncommon in popular writings to attribute this superiority to a crusader strain - a theory which no one can possibly countenance who knows what miserable degenerates the half-breed descendants of the crusaders rapidly became, as a result of their immoral life and their ignorance of the sanitary precautions necessary in a trying climate.







*A street in Jaffa, 1910.*

The towns are more diverse:

The population of the larger towns is of a much more complex nature. In each there is primarily a large Arab element, consisting for the greater part of members of important and wealthy families. Thus, in Jerusalem, much of the local influence is in the hands of the families of El-Khalidi, El-Husseini and one or two others, who derive their descent from the heroes of the early days of Islam. The Turkish element is small, consisting exclusively of officials sent individually from Constantinople. There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy, principally engaged in trade. The extraordinary development of Jewish colonization has since 1870 effected a revolution in the balance of population in some parts of the country, notably in Jerusalem.

Dispensing with Zionism in that one sentence, the _Encyclopædia Britannica_ goes on to the many other peoples of the region:

There are few residents in the country from the more eastern parts of Asia - if we except the Turkoman settlements in the Jaulan, a number of Persians, and a fairly large Afghan colony that since 1905 has established itself in Jaffa. The Mutāwileh (Motawila), who form the majority of the inhabitants of the villages north-west of Galilee, are probably long-settled immigrants from Persia. Some tribes of Kurds live in tents and huts near Lake Huleh.

If the inmates of the countless monastic establishments be excluded, comparatively few from northern or western Europe will remain: the German "Templar" colonies being perhaps the most important. There must also be mentioned a Bosnian colony established at Caesarea Palestina, and the Circassian settlements placed in certain centres of Eastern Palestine by the Turkish government in order to keep a restraint on the Bedouin: the latter are also found in Galilee. There was formerly a large Sudanese and Algerian element in the population of some of the large towns, but these have been much reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century: the Algerians however still maintain themselves in parts of Galilee.

The most interesting of all the non-Arab communities in the country, however, is without doubt the Samaritan sect in Nablus (Shechem); a gradually disappearing body, which has maintained an independent existence from the time when they were first settled by the Assyrians to occupy the land left waste by the captivity of the kingdom of Israel. (p. 604)







*Samaritans of Nablus.*

This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan.

So, enough of this nonsense about the Palestinians all being an ancient people going back to the Jebusites.

The Arab Palestinian identity dates to after this encyclopedia entry was written, to the year 1920.

*Daniel Pipes (**DanielPipes.org**, @DanielPipes) is president of the Middle East Forum.*

*Related Topics:* History, Palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rania Khalek*, reports from the DNC.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian Death Cultists?

Recap from the Dark Side.


PA law: Terror's reward - rise to rank of General in PA Security Forces - PMW Bulletins

*Terrorist who drove murderer of Mickey Mark*
*will reach rank of General in 20 years *
k
*PA law rewards terrorists from PA Security Forces *
*with promotions in rank based on years in prison:*

*5 years in prison - Lieutenant*
*10 years in prison - Lieutenant Colonel*
*20 years in prison - Brigadier General*
*This reward is in addition to:*

*high salary while in prison*
*large grant when released from prison*
*guaranteed high salary after release*


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

While this is marginally interesting, what does this have to do with the "Question of Palestine."



P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek*, reports from the DNC.


*(COMMENT)*

I suppose you are saying that TRNN Journalist Rania Khalek is a Palestinian-American.  But I think she has made a transition.  In two minutes of hearing her talk, she is clearly an enthusiastic self-starter; with a professional presence.  




​
But really, she is no more Palestinian than I am Italian.  But she does lean towards the Pro-Palestinian side of the "Question."  She is an Associate editor at https://electronicintifada.net/people/rania-khalek (which does not make her a bad person).

I do think it is time for her to change her Avatar.  this is a much better picture:



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek*, reports from the DNC.








 OFF TOPIC SPAMMING


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> While this is marginally interesting, what does this have to do with the "Question of Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek*, reports from the DNC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose you are saying that TRNN Journalist Rania Khalek is a Palestinian-American.  But I think she has made a transition.  In two minutes of hearing her talk, she is clearly an enthusiastic self-starter; with a professional presence.
> 
> View attachment 84351
> ​
> But really, she is no more Palestinian than I am Italian.  But she does lean towards the Pro-Palestinian side of the "Question."  She is an Associate editor at https://electronicintifada.net/people/rania-khalek (which does not make her a bad person).
> 
> I do think it is time for her to change her Avatar.  this is a much better picture:
> View attachment 84353​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, Rania Khalek is an interesting person. She is indicative of what Palestinians can accomplish when not under the boot of a colonial power.


There are many other Palestinians who have been successful. A woman from Gaza.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> While this is marginally interesting, what does this have to do with the "Question of Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek*, reports from the DNC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose you are saying that TRNN Journalist Rania Khalek is a Palestinian-American.  But I think she has made a transition.  In two minutes of hearing her talk, she is clearly an enthusiastic self-starter; with a professional presence.
> 
> View attachment 84351
> ​
> But really, she is no more Palestinian than I am Italian.  But she does lean towards the Pro-Palestinian side of the "Question."  She is an Associate editor at https://electronicintifada.net/people/rania-khalek (which does not make her a bad person).
> 
> I do think it is time for her to change her Avatar.  this is a much better picture:
> View attachment 84353​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Rania Khalek is an interesting person. She is indicative of what Palestinians can accomplish when not under the boot of a colonial power.
> 
> 
> There are many other Palestinians who have been successful. A woman from Gaza.
Click to expand...








 Which means when they are away from the jackboot of islamonazi dogma that would have her beaten or even stoned for her crimes. Dont you find it strange that these people beg for a regime that will make them virtual slaves and unable to think and act for themselves. Are they really that stupid that they will give up all they have worked for because some islamonazi extremist says they will still be allowed to carry on as normal.

 Now how about something that is not islamonazi propaganda and from an unbiased source, as all you seem to have lately is arab muslim talking points


----------



## Mindful

Boker tov, good morning

I love our apartheid in Israel, there is a Pizza place that I love in one of the Religious neighborhoods of Jerusalem, it’s close to my bank where I usually go there at night. The staff at the Pizza place know me by face, the normal hi how are you what can I get you with smiles almost always.

They know I’m Arab from my accent in Hebrew of course, but never ever felt any different than anyone else standing at the counter.
Last night, as I finished my banking I walked to the Pizza place, the gentleman there unusually just said hi and carried on serving other customers (Jews of course), I noticed that 2 people came after me were served before me, didn’t upset me just surprised me though. After few minutes he asked me if I will have the usual , and I said yes please, he started working on it and as we were alone at the counter he said in Hebrew , ” sorry I passed few people ahead of you, I have new Pizza in the oven and I wanted you to have a fresh Pizza, not reheated”

This is the apartheid everyone is taking about I guess, just saying
Good day!


Israeli Arab: “I Love Our ‘Apartheid’ In Israel”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Marah Zahalka*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists masquerading as Pal'istanians?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Marah Zahalka*
> 
> **









 Did you notice the uniform of a palestinian terrorist that she wore, makes her a valid military target doesn't it. Keep it up as every one of your videos just shows another terrorist that the IDF can target for action under international law


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nada Kiswanson*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Palestinian Dezth Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nada Kiswanson*








 Would the threats be coming from arab muslims by any chance, as your video is not very clear on this. The ICC/ICJ found Israel had no case to answer but the arab muslims did, so abu mazen withdrew the complaint before his people started to get arrested for war crimes. They are the most likely candidates for the threats after losing yet again to the Jews, truth and reality and being shown up


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nada Kiswanson*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would the threats be coming from arab muslims by any chance, as your video is not very clear on this. The ICC/ICJ found Israel had no case to answer but the arab muslims did, so abu mazen withdrew the complaint before his people started to get arrested for war crimes. They are the most likely candidates for the threats after losing yet again to the Jews, truth and reality and being shown up
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Nada Kiswanson*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would the threats be coming from arab muslims by any chance, as your video is not very clear on this. The ICC/ICJ found Israel had no case to answer but the arab muslims did, so abu mazen withdrew the complaint before his people started to get arrested for war crimes. They are the most likely candidates for the threats after losing yet again to the Jews, truth and reality and being shown up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...









ICC issues first report on war crimes in Palestinian- Israeli conflict

The preliminary report noted that 4,881 rockets and 1,750 mortar rounds were fired by Hamas at Israel, indicating that these incidents could be claimed as potential war crimes. Additionally, the report echoed IDF Military Intelligence, stating that out of the more than 2,000 Palestinians killed, at least 1,000 were civilians, as opposed to the high of 1,600 civilians claimed by the United Nations and other human 30%. The report did note there were discrepancies regarding those numbers.
Next, the report mentions allegations that Hamas launched attacks from civilian locations, such as schools, hospitals and mosques.


----------



## yiostheoy

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> CONCLUSION: "This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan.
> 
> So, enough of this nonsense about the Palestinians all being an ancient people going back to the Jebusites.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian identity dates to after this encyclopedia entry was written."
> 
> The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> I just received my info E-mail ftom the ME Forum a few minutes ago with the same article by Pipes. The Pro-Palis won't open your link so I am printing the whole thing.
> 
> *The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian*
> *by Daniel Pipes  •  Jul 31, 2016
> Cross-posted from Danielpipes.org*
> 
> *The 11th Encyclopædia Britannica on Who Is a Palestinian*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Robert Alexander Stewart Macalister*
> 
> As several authors (Aryeh L. Avneri, Joan Peters, Fred M. Gottheil) have shown, the non-Jewish population of Palestine grew because of the many in-migrants who came to work at Zionist economic enterprises. But it's also worth noting that, even before that immigration began, this small territory was already filled with a wide range of peoples.
> 
> The famed _Encyclopædia Britannica_, 11th edition, dating from 1910-11, antedating the British conquest of the area, provides colorful information on these peoples. The entry _Palestine_ in vol. 20, by the Irish archeologist Robert Alexander Stewart Macalister, delineates Palestine
> 
> as the strip of land extending along the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea from the mouth of the Litany ... southward to ... a short distance south of Gaza. ... Eastward ... the line of the pilgrim road from Damascus to Mecca is the most convenient possible boundary. (p. 601)
> 
> The map below shows what's meant (in modern terms, more or less northern Israel and northeastern Jordan) by Palestine.
> 
> Macalister's section on the population of Palestine stresses its diversity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Map of Palestine, Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. vol. 20, p. 602.*
> 
> The inhabitants of Palestine are composed of a large number of elements, differing widely in ethnological affinities, language and religion. It may be interesting to mention, as an illustration of their hetereogeneousness, that early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages, spoken in Jerusalem as vernaculars, was there drawn up by a party of men whose various official positions enabled them to possess accurate information on the subject.
> 
> A footnote adds that only 30 languages are regularly used but that too is "a sufficient number ... to indicate the cosmopolitan nature of the city." This complexity makes it "no easy task to write concisely and at the same time with sufficient fullness on the ethnology of Palestine," whose population Macalister roughly estimates to be 650,000. Nevertheless, he plunges ahead in an 850-word summary, provided here in its entirety, with additional paragraphing inserted for easier reading:
> 
> There are two classes into which the population of Palestine can be divided - the nomadic and the sedentary. The former is especially characteristic of Eastern Palestine, though Western Palestine also contains its full share. The pure Arab origin of the Bedouins is recognized in common conversation in the country, the word "Arab" being almost restricted to denote these wanders and seldom applied to the dwellers in towns and villages.
> 
> It should be mentioned that there is a third, entirely independent, nomad race, the despised Nowar [Nawar], who correspond to the gipsies or tinkers of European countries. These people live under the poorest conditions, by doing smith's work; they speak among themselves a Romani dialect, much contaminated with Arabic in its vocabulary.
> 
> The _EB_ deals quickly with the sedentaries:
> 
> The sedentary population of the country villages - the fellahin, or agriculturists - is, on the whole, comparatively unmixed; but traces of various intrusive strains assert themselves. It is by no means unreasonable to suppose that there is a fundamental Canaanite element in this population: the "hewers of wood and drawers of water" often remain undisturbed through successive occupations of a land; and there is a remarkable correspondence of type between many of the modern fellahin and skeletons of ancient inhabitants which have been recovered in the course of excavation.
> 
> The focus is on the waves of foreign colonization:
> 
> New elements no doubt came in under the Assyrian, Persian and Roman dominations, and in more recent times there has been much contamination.
> 
> The spread of Islam introduced a very considerable Neo-Arabian infusion. Those from southern Arabia were known as the Yaman tribe, those from northern Arabia the Kais (Qais). These two divisions absorbed the previous peasant population, and still nominally exist; down to the middle of the 19th century they were a fruitful source of quarrels and of bloodshed. The two great clans were further subdivided into families, but these minor divisions are also being gradually broken down. In the 19th century the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages. These newcomers have not been completely assimilated with the villagers among whom they have found a home; the latter despise them, and discourage intermarriage.
> 
> Villages contain some Christians:
> 
> Some of the larger villages - notably Bethlehem - which have always been leavened by Christianity, and with the development of industry have become comparatively prosperous, show tangible results of these happier circumstances in a higher standard of physique among the men and of personal appearance among the women. It is not uncommon in popular writings to attribute this superiority to a crusader strain - a theory which no one can possibly countenance who knows what miserable degenerates the half-breed descendants of the crusaders rapidly became, as a result of their immoral life and their ignorance of the sanitary precautions necessary in a trying climate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A street in Jaffa, 1910.*
> 
> The towns are more diverse:
> 
> The population of the larger towns is of a much more complex nature. In each there is primarily a large Arab element, consisting for the greater part of members of important and wealthy families. Thus, in Jerusalem, much of the local influence is in the hands of the families of El-Khalidi, El-Husseini and one or two others, who derive their descent from the heroes of the early days of Islam. The Turkish element is small, consisting exclusively of officials sent individually from Constantinople. There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy, principally engaged in trade. The extraordinary development of Jewish colonization has since 1870 effected a revolution in the balance of population in some parts of the country, notably in Jerusalem.
> 
> Dispensing with Zionism in that one sentence, the _Encyclopædia Britannica_ goes on to the many other peoples of the region:
> 
> There are few residents in the country from the more eastern parts of Asia - if we except the Turkoman settlements in the Jaulan, a number of Persians, and a fairly large Afghan colony that since 1905 has established itself in Jaffa. The Mutāwileh (Motawila), who form the majority of the inhabitants of the villages north-west of Galilee, are probably long-settled immigrants from Persia. Some tribes of Kurds live in tents and huts near Lake Huleh.
> 
> If the inmates of the countless monastic establishments be excluded, comparatively few from northern or western Europe will remain: the German "Templar" colonies being perhaps the most important. There must also be mentioned a Bosnian colony established at Caesarea Palestina, and the Circassian settlements placed in certain centres of Eastern Palestine by the Turkish government in order to keep a restraint on the Bedouin: the latter are also found in Galilee. There was formerly a large Sudanese and Algerian element in the population of some of the large towns, but these have been much reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century: the Algerians however still maintain themselves in parts of Galilee.
> 
> The most interesting of all the non-Arab communities in the country, however, is without doubt the Samaritan sect in Nablus (Shechem); a gradually disappearing body, which has maintained an independent existence from the time when they were first settled by the Assyrians to occupy the land left waste by the captivity of the kingdom of Israel. (p. 604)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Samaritans of Nablus.*
> 
> This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan.
> 
> So, enough of this nonsense about the Palestinians all being an ancient people going back to the Jebusites.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian identity dates to after this encyclopedia entry was written, to the year 1920.
> 
> *Daniel Pipes (**DanielPipes.org**, @DanielPipes) is president of the Middle East Forum.*
> 
> *Related Topics:* History, Palestinians
Click to expand...

They are not Jebusites they (the Palestinians) are ancient Greeks circa 15th Century BCE "Sea Peoples".

"Philistines" even sounds Greek -- friends.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Palestine Youth Orchestra, London Concert, 2nd encore - improvisation *


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Palestine Youth Orchestra, London Concert, 2nd encore - improvisation *



Will they be performing at the Proms?

Like the East West Divan orchestra. (Based in Spain; I wonder why)


----------



## Mindful

The West–Eastern Divan Orchestra is a youth orchestra based in Seville, Spain, consisting of musicians from countries in the Middle East, of Egyptian, Iranian, Israeli, Jordanian, Lebanese, Palestinian, Syrian and Spanish background. Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

Islamic terrorist (Hitler Youth wannabe) summer camp.

*An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids*

An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids

Hamas, the Palestinian Sunni-Islamic fundamentalist organization that's designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the US,  hosts annual youth camps that focus on military-style training. These camps are typically held from July 25 to August 1 near the Gaza Strip and have anywhere between 15,000to 25,000 students.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Islamic terrorist (Hitler Youth wannabe) summer camp.
> 
> *An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids*
> 
> An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Sunni-Islamic fundamentalist organization that's designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the US,  hosts annual youth camps that focus on military-style training. These camps are typically held from July 25 to August 1 near the Gaza Strip and have anywhere between 15,000to 25,000 students.


Oooooooo, terrorist. 

Is name calling all you have?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Islamic terrorist (Hitler Youth wannabe) summer camp.
> 
> *An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids*
> 
> An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Sunni-Islamic fundamentalist organization that's designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the US,  hosts annual youth camps that focus on military-style training. These camps are typically held from July 25 to August 1 near the Gaza Strip and have anywhere between 15,000to 25,000 students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooo, terrorist.
> 
> Is name calling all you have?
Click to expand...








 Only name calling to you because you are a supporter of terrorism and defend the actions of terrorists all the time.

 IT SEEMS ALL YOU HAVE IS LIES AND IMMATURE DENIAL OF THE TRUTH


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Terrorist is just the shorter noun nomenclature for those that come from the despicable culture that intentionally targets the innocent, hides behind the innocent, and pretend to be freedom fighters and patriots.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Islamic terrorist (Hitler Youth wannabe) summer camp.
> 
> *An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids*
> 
> An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Sunni-Islamic fundamentalist organization that's designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the US,  hosts annual youth camps that focus on military-style training. These camps are typically held from July 25 to August 1 near the Gaza Strip and have anywhere between 15,000to 25,000 students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooo, terrorist.
> 
> Is name calling all you have?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In case you forgot definition of a an Islamic Terrorist, let me help you out.  I do believe, that will our friend "Hollie" walks heavy --- she speaks the truth.



 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## fanger

When the prevailing government in any country is not legal, when it becomes a regime of oppression and tyranny, it is the right of its citizens—more than that, it is their duty—to fight this regime and to topple it. This is what Palestinian youth are doing and will continue to do until you quit this land, and hand it over to its rightful owners: the Palestinian people. For you should know this: there is no power in the world which can sever the tie between the Palestinian people and their one and only land.


----------



## Phoenall

fanger said:


> When the prevailing government in any country is not legal, when it becomes a regime of oppression and tyranny, it is the right of its citizens—more than that, it is their duty—to fight this regime and to topple it. This is what Palestinian youth are doing and will continue to do until you quit this land, and hand it over to its rightful owners: the Palestinian people. For you should know this: there is no power in the world which can sever the tie between the Palestinian people and their one and only land.








Which is why the arab muslims should pack their bags and leave Israel as it was never their land after 1099. And they only had a part of it for 22 years. look at the recorded International laws and treaties that all show the Jews to be the legal sovereign owners, not the arab muslims who had all of the M.E less Lebanon and Israel. Why are you muslims so greedy all the time, when you have already got nearly everything


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Vivien Sansour *

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Vivien Sansour *
> 
> **










 Just more islamonazi propaganda by a pallywood company


the name says it all     palestine note


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'estinian Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Pamla Olson, Author of Fast Times in Palestine *

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Interview with Pamla Olson, Author of Fast Times in Palestine *
> 
> **









 And once again you pass of islamonazi pallywood productions as facts and reality. Ask someone else about the arab muslims calling themselves palestinians and they will tell you they are the most surly, violent and intractable group on this planet.


----------



## Kondor3

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ-on-a-Crutch... is this lame-ass sorry excuse for a thread still going?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

Hitler Youth wannabes.


Palestinian scout instructor praised murderer of 3: Follow his path - PMW Bulletins
*
Palestinian scout instructor glorified murderer of 3
at course named after murderer Baha Alyan,
held by the Palestinian Scout Association:

“Baha remains among us, he remains in our hearts,
and emphasizes to you that 250,000 scouts and guides
in the Palestinian Scout Association are Baha!
And if Allah wills it, they are following Baha’s path”

“Symbolic funerals” held for the murderer
by two commissions 
of the Palestinian Scout Association*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Wrap Up of the 2016 Ottawa Palestinian Festival *

**


----------



## Hollie

*Who are the Pal'istanians?

Lawrence Solomon: The UN’s refugee welfare racket*

*Lawrence Solomon: The UN’s refugee welfare racket*
*
In UNRWA’s books, a refugee can be just about anyone who wants to be one


In the West, it’s known as welfare fraud. In the Palestinian Territories, it’s called refugee relief. In both places, the fraud can become a way of life, seen as an entitlement that children and then grandchildren adopt. Only in the Palestinian Territories, though, does the welfare agency see its goal as putting more people on welfare and keeping them there, the better to keep “the Palestinian refugee crisis” alive.

That welfare agency is called the United Nations Relief and Aid Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, or UNRWA as it’s commonly known. UNRWA doesn’t focus its efforts on resettling Palestinian refugees in foreign countries that would welcome them, as might be expected of a refugee agency, or even on resettling them in their own homeland when possible.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*26 Kilometres - Zena Agha*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem terrorists. The 7th century is not far away.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **








 Palestinian activist is turn speak for islamonazi propagandist, which is all you ever have


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Unshaken, a Muslim Millennial Navigates Post-9/11 America: Amani Al-Khatahtbeh *

**


----------



## Hollie

Post 9/11, we understand that Moslems came back to finish the attack they largely failed at in 1993.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh, revisited*


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem terrorism revisited.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

 *Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Amani Al-Khatahtbeh, revisited*










 So saying hamas are terrorist is not racism according to this piece of islamonazi propaganda shit


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Farah Chamma*
> 
> **








 If that is the best they have to offer then you can keep it


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

Knives, Car Used in Attacks as Violence Against Israelis Flares

Violence against Israelis flared in the West Bank and Jerusalem on Friday with attacks involving knives and a car-ramming.

Multiple attacks on a single day have become less common in recent months, making the three on Friday unusual. In the first assault, a Jordanian man tried to stab police officers at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem’s Old City, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said in a text message. The attacker was shot and killed, he said.

Hours later, Palestinian assailants rammed a vehicle into a bus stop at a junction near the Kiryat Arba settlement in the West Bank, wounding three Israeli civilians, the military said.


Soldiers fired at the vehicle, killing one of the attackers and wounding the other, it said in a statement. A knife was found in the vehicle, it said.

In late afternoon, a Palestinian man armed with a knife stabbed an Israeli soldier, and was shot to death by troops at the scene, the military said.



Lovely, lovely folks those Death Cult Pal'istanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Amani Al-Khatahtbeh, revisited*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So saying hamas are terrorist is not racism according to this piece of islamonazi propaganda shit
Click to expand...

You are just posting sour grapes because she exposes the dirty shit Israel supporters do to censor Palestinian voices. Israel is losing the debate so they try to shut it down. Israel is desperate to shut people up.


----------



## Hollie

Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.


And 100% protected freedom of speech.

Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...

Remarkable, don't you think? Here in the Great Satan, free speech is protected. That's obviously not the case in retrograde Islamist paradises.

Nice bit of deflection on your part, refusing to acknowledge Islamist fascism as a part of the norm in the areas occupied by Pal'istanian retrogrades.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...

Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
Click to expand...

The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.
Click to expand...

Propagandists such as yourself reiterate such silly slogans as a way to deflect incompetence and ineptitude on the part of Arab-Moslem terrorists pretending to manage civil affairs of government.

"I blame the Great Satan" is a worn out slogan, sweetie.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Amani Al-Khatahtbeh, revisited*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So saying hamas are terrorist is not racism according to this piece of islamonazi propaganda shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just posting sour grapes because she exposes the dirty shit Israel supporters do to censor Palestinian voices. Israel is losing the debate so they try to shut it down. Israel is desperate to shut people up.
Click to expand...





So saying hamas is terrorist is racism now according to YOU and this POS islamonazi propagandist. No sour grapes at all just facts that show you to be brainwashed into following the islamonazi party line.


 How about valid links from unbiased sources then to prove your claims, or will you just ignore this request because you know that there are as rare as hens teeth


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists? Hitler Youth wannabes.




Yep. Arab-Moslem terrorists who voted in an Islamic terrorist organization to manage government affairs are surprised to find that Islamic terrorists are incapable of operating the affairs of government.

It's the debilitating syndrome called _Pal'istanian_ _Mentality_™


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...





Is this why the islamic contingent of the UN tried to force through a resolution and turn it into international law forbidding the telling of the truth about muslims and islam. Did you miss that failed attempt at imposing sharia law on the world, and the hatred the muslims showed to the rest of the world for denying them the chance to take over.

No deflection if it mentions palestine and the palestinians as much as you want to alter the rules.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.
Click to expand...







 Only if you subscribe to the tinnmore school of shariah jurisprudence. If they did not exist the the nation of palestine would have collapsed in 2008 and there would be no UN observer status for them. That is what the many nations are accepting when they say they recognise palestine, the current P.A. and its legal right to represent the arab muslims.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cult tribes warring in Gaza'istan and the other Gaza'istan?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Propagandists such as yourself reiterate such silly slogans as a way to deflect incompetence and ineptitude on the part of Arab-Moslem terrorists pretending to manage civil affairs of government.
> 
> "I blame the Great Satan" is a worn out slogan, sweetie.
Click to expand...

Sad but true. It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the Arabs-Moslems (and the rabid Jew haters), who seek to stifle free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Propagandists such as yourself reiterate such silly slogans as a way to deflect incompetence and ineptitude on the part of Arab-Moslem terrorists pretending to manage civil affairs of government.
> 
> "I blame the Great Satan" is a worn out slogan, sweetie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sad but true. It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
Click to expand...

It is sad, that you embrace failure and ineptitude on the part of 
Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And 100% protected freedom of speech.
> 
> Nice piece of deflection though, bringing up all these issues that have nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Propagandists such as yourself reiterate such silly slogans as a way to deflect incompetence and ineptitude on the part of Arab-Moslem terrorists pretending to manage civil affairs of government.
> 
> "I blame the Great Satan" is a worn out slogan, sweetie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sad but true. It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is sad, that you embrace failure and ineptitude on the part of
> Arabs-Moslems.
Click to expand...

The imposition of a government by the point of a gun by the world superpower is a failure?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd that a Pom Pom flailer for Arab-Moslem terrorists would want to lecture anyone on free speech issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The propagandists who created this video neglected to state that the "PA" is an illegal government installed by the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Propagandists such as yourself reiterate such silly slogans as a way to deflect incompetence and ineptitude on the part of Arab-Moslem terrorists pretending to manage civil affairs of government.
> 
> "I blame the Great Satan" is a worn out slogan, sweetie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sad but true. It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is sad, that you embrace failure and ineptitude on the part of
> Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The imposition of a government by the point of a gun by the world superpower is a failure?
Click to expand...

If would be if it had happened, but it didn't.

You need to invent some other excuses for the failed islamic terrorist encampments occupied by Hamas and Fatah. Not surprisingly, those failed islamist societies reflect the same failed islamist societies across the islamist Middle East.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Daoud*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Noor Daoud*









 AND    just what are you trying to say with your islamonazi propaganda pallywood productions ?


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem nominee for Mother of the Year Award


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> **







Is this about the same person



So why do you use the words of a proven islamonazi propagandist and Jew hater ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this about the same person
Click to expand...

Indeed it is. Notice that she calls for equal rights for everybody including Jews.

Show me a Zionist who proposes equal rights.

I await your response.


----------



## Hollie

Articles: The Jihad Lawyer

The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U 


Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed it is. Notice that she calls for equal rights for everybody including Jews.
> 
> Show me a Zionist who proposes equal rights.



Really?  I didn't see her calling for the return of ALL Jewish people and ALL of their descendants to the land of their origin.  I only heard her call for the return of Arab Palestinian Muslims.  

I did see her call for the dismantlement of everything "Zionist" (read: Jewish).

I also heard her call for a return to the "Arab World".  

How is this equal?

And here is a Zionist who proposes equal rights:  two nations for two peoples allowing each self-governance in accordance to the desires of their peoples.  How is that not equal rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.


*By Pamela Geller?*

You are posting Pamela Geller?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
Click to expand...


You are posting Lamis Deek?

You and the screeching Islamist terrorist Pom Pom flailer. A gee-had of none.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

Breeding the next generation of the Hitler Youth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are posting Lamis Deek?
> 
> You and the screeching Islamist terrorist Pom Pom flailer. A gee-had of none.
Click to expand...

Thank you. She is great.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are posting Lamis Deek?
> 
> You and the screeching Islamist terrorist Pom Pom flailer. A gee-had of none.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. She is great.
Click to expand...


Oh, no. Thank you. I appreciate you showcasing the shrill, desperate voices promoting Arab-Moslem terrorists.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this about the same person
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed it is. Notice that she calls for equal rights for everybody including Jews.
> 
> Show me a Zionist who proposes equal rights.
> 
> I await your response.
Click to expand...







 Look at the Jews declaration of independence that I have posted many times in answer to this same inane question.  

 No doubt she means those Jews covered by the PLO/hamas/fatah charter that are extinct by now, we have all seen the criteria of only those living in palestine prior to 1875 will be seen as palestinian Jews


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are posting Lamis Deek?
> 
> You and the screeching Islamist terrorist Pom Pom flailer. A gee-had of none.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. She is great.
Click to expand...








 Opening shot shows her infront of her banner proclaiming the islamonazi blood libel   " Zionist terrorism and massacre in gaza". Dont need to watch any more as it is just more of your islamonazi pallywood productions propaganda


----------



## Hollie

Bugs Bunny Targets Muslims, Says Lawyer on Egyptian TV

Bugs Bunny Targets Muslims, at least according to Lamis Deek. 

Zionists and racists use the world media – including cartoons featuring Bugs Bunny – to perpetuate anti-Islamic notions, according to a "Palestinian-American" lawyer named Lamis Deek. Deek also accused the U.S. Department of Defense of financing anti-Islamic propaganda films.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
Click to expand...







 Does she call for the mass murder of the arab muslims and the theft of their lands so the Jews can rule the world, as your islamonazi friends do in just about every one of your video's


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does she call for the mass murder of the arab muslims and the theft of their lands so the Jews can rule the world, as your islamonazi friends do in just about every one of your video's
Click to expand...

Where does Lamis call for murdering anyone?

You are just shoveling shit.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with killing anyone?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with killing anyone?
Click to expand...


Nothing.  Just making a(n implied) comment on one of the points she made in that video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with killing anyone?
Click to expand...

She is aware that in the Great Satan,  incitement is a crime. Unlike television and media in, as you have described, the "countries" of Gaza and the West Bank where incitement of hate towards Jews is promoted and furthered  - and where pious moslems act upon that incitement - the rabid Jew hating Lamis Deek would quickly find herself in the kuffar hoosegow for the antics that your _ISIS-lite_ heroes in Pal'istan practice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with killing anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is aware that in the Great Satan,  incitement is a crime. Unlike television and media in, as you have described, the "countries" of Gaza and the West Bank where incitement of hate towards Jews is promoted and furthered  - and where pious moslems act upon that incitement - the rabid Jew hating Lamis Deek would quickly find herself in the kuffar hoosegow for the antics that your _ISIS-lite_ heroes in Pal'istan practice.
Click to expand...

WOW, so much hate.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with killing anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is aware that in the Great Satan,  incitement is a crime. Unlike television and media in, as you have described, the "countries" of Gaza and the West Bank where incitement of hate towards Jews is promoted and furthered  - and where pious moslems act upon that incitement - the rabid Jew hating Lamis Deek would quickly find herself in the kuffar hoosegow for the antics that your _ISIS-lite_ heroes in Pal'istan practice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so much hate.
Click to expand...

I agree, as it applies to Lamis Deek. Her shrill, Jew hating tirades paint her as quite the stereotype of the Arab-Moslem suffering the debilitating condition known as _Pal'istanian Mentality ™_


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Would you help an Israeli in need? *

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal'stanian helping an Israeli.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism - the Hamas tunnels


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Amena Ashkar*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


Thanks for posting an Israeli war crime.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting an Israeli war crime.
Click to expand...

Reacting to acts of islamic terrorism is a war crime?

Do you have an authoritative YouTube video on that? Something from Press TV  ( aka the _Death to the Great Satan_™ News Channel) would be helpful.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting an Israeli war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reacting to acts of islamic terrorism is a war crime?
> 
> Do you have an authoritative YouTube video on that? Something from Press TV  ( aka the _Death to the Great Satan_™ News Channel) would be helpful.
Click to expand...

Targeting a family home is targeting civilians. I don't need a link.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting an Israeli war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reacting to acts of islamic terrorism is a war crime?
> 
> Do you have an authoritative YouTube video on that? Something from Press TV  ( aka the _Death to the Great Satan_™ News Channel) would be helpful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting a family home is targeting civilians. I don't need a link.
Click to expand...

You must be so proud when your Islamic terrorist heroes use civilians as human shields and civilian infrastructure as cover for acts of war aimed at israel. 

Dead Islamics are worth all the propaganda value you can exploit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Leila Farsakh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem terrorist Mother of the week.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rashid Khalidi*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Suheir Hammad*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Linda Sarsour *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## abu afak

"Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda... As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis, the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.
- David Basch


"...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did Not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s. Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," - a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."
- westerndefense.org


"There is NO Language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents 1/10th of 1% of the landmass.
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
- Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist


_So before the creation of the State of Israel, Who were the Palestinians?_

Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST;
the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK;
the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY;
there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC.
All these were JEWISH organizations.
In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG" In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions. "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine.
The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon.
Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.
- 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ

*EDIT:
Note above and below: PJ Tinhead is NONCONVERSANT, and just puts up Pro-Palestinian Boob-tubes.
The board cannot survive this continuous Destructive practice, which Kills discussion.
Mods please take note.*​
`


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Hitler Youth?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rula Jebreal *

**


----------



## abu afak

OK.
I tried to stop this Youtube Nonsense through proper channels -- to no avail.


My specialty is Debating this conflict (and have destroyed PJ Tinhead at least a dozen times), not Picture show.

Have a Nice Page/Week/Month/YEAR
see y'all in 2017
`


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> OK.
> I tried to stop this Youtube Nonsense through proper channels -- to no avail.
> 
> 
> My specialty is Debating this conflict (and have destroyed PJ Tinhead at least a dozen times), not Picture show.
> 
> Have a Nice Page/Week/Month/YEAR
> see y'all in 2017
> `


Wow, all of Israel's bullshit talking points in one video.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists (next generation of the Hitler Youth?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dima Khalidi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


Drop in the bucket.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drop in the bucket.
Click to expand...

You can thank your Islamic terrorist heroes for waging acts of islamic terrorism while using civilians as human shields. 

Such a shame you use dead people as cheap propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian islamic terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian islamic terrorists?


So you post a major Israeli bullshit propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a major Israeli bullshit propaganda site.
Click to expand...

You poor, dear. You're uncomfortable with criticism of your islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian islamic terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a major Israeli bullshit propaganda site.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You poor, dear. You're uncomfortable with criticism of your islamic terrorist heroes.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, another bullshit Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


CBN (fake) Christian Bullshit Network


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Articles: The Jihad Lawyer
> 
> The _New York Times_ reported last week that the Islamic supremacist lawyer Lamis J. Deek, who is representing Ahmed Ferhani in his trial for a jihad plot to blow up a synagogue, also represented for a short time the undercover cop who helped put together the case against Ferhani.
> 
> Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/the_jihad_lawyer.html#ixzz4KvJHKH4U
> 
> 
> Lovey, lovely folks these 'Pal'istanian' Islamo-fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Pamela Geller?*
> 
> You are posting Pamela Geller?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does she call for the mass murder of the arab muslims and the theft of their lands so the Jews can rule the world, as your islamonazi friends do in just about every one of your video's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does Lamis call for murdering anyone?
> 
> You are just shoveling shit.
Click to expand...







Twisting words again so you can derail and divert away from the truth


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with killing anyone?
Click to expand...








 Everything when the islamonazis have made it their holy quest to do so


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to return, having Jews return, is key to the organic re-integration of Israel into the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with killing anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is aware that in the Great Satan,  incitement is a crime. Unlike television and media in, as you have described, the "countries" of Gaza and the West Bank where incitement of hate towards Jews is promoted and furthered  - and where pious moslems act upon that incitement - the rabid Jew hating Lamis Deek would quickly find herself in the kuffar hoosegow for the antics that your _ISIS-lite_ heroes in Pal'istan practice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so much hate.
Click to expand...







 No just tons and tons of provable facts that deatroy your islamonazi propaganda, lies and blood libels


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: Would you help an Israeli in need? *
> 
> **









 Usual cherry picked pieces to camera that will amount to barely 5% of the questioned. Even the first respondent was hesitant and had to be prompted


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CBN (fake) Christian Bullshit Network
Click to expand...








 Evidence from a non islamonazi source ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>










 Same old same old, dont you have anything new to attempt to prove your point with ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Amena Ashkar*
> 
> **









 Read International law and the Geneva conventions, then see if it applies to the 1 million Jews evicted from their homes in arab muslims lands after 1949. Any foreign national that is a danger to the state can be deported to another nation if it will take them in


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting an Israeli war crime.
Click to expand...







 What war crime as I have seen no trial records of this being a war crime. I have not even seen any official declaration of it being a war crime. Care to provide evidence to support your words, or admit you are spreading incitement to violence


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting an Israeli war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reacting to acts of islamic terrorism is a war crime?
> 
> Do you have an authoritative YouTube video on that? Something from Press TV  ( aka the _Death to the Great Satan_™ News Channel) would be helpful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting a family home is targeting civilians. I don't need a link.
Click to expand...







 Wrong as this was a military target under International law, or are you still denying the Jews the rights to be covered by International laws


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **









Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rashid Khalidi*
> 
> **








 Have you changed sources and went for pallywood productions instead of islamonazi propaganda ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Amena Ashkar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read International law and the Geneva conventions, then see if it applies to the 1 million Jews evicted from their homes in arab muslims lands after 1949. Any foreign national that is a danger to the state can be deported to another nation if it will take them in
Click to expand...

I have always agreed that the Jews who lost their homes around 1948 have the right to return to their former homes. When I see a Jewish organization demanding their right to return I will support it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again
Click to expand...

You slime the source but cannot refute the issues.

That's good to know.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You slime the source but cannot refute the issues.
> 
> That's good to know.
Click to expand...

Issues that are raised in your silly, scripted cut and paste YouTube videos are people's personal opinions. Where is your response to the videos that actually do refute your videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You slime the source but cannot refute the issues.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Issues that are raised in your silly, scripted cut and paste YouTube videos are people's personal opinions. Where is your response to the videos that actually do refute your videos?
Click to expand...

Do you mean the one where the cover photo is a rocket being launched in Syria?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You slime the source but cannot refute the issues.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Issues that are raised in your silly, scripted cut and paste YouTube videos are people's personal opinions. Where is your response to the videos that actually do refute your videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the one where the cover photo is a rocket being launched in Syria?
Click to expand...

No. the various ones showing your Islamic terrorist heroes launching rockets at Israel from civilian areas.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Amena Ashkar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read International law and the Geneva conventions, then see if it applies to the 1 million Jews evicted from their homes in arab muslims lands after 1949. Any foreign national that is a danger to the state can be deported to another nation if it will take them in
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have always agreed that the Jews who lost their homes around 1948 have the right to return to their former homes. When I see a Jewish organization demanding their right to return I will support it.
Click to expand...






 They dont they would prefer a land swap at a 2 for 1 rate, this would mean for every 2 acres of Jewish land stolen after 1947 the arab muslim give them 1 acre of palestine. Then when there is no more palestine the arab muslims can buy the stolen Jewish lands at 10 cents on the dollar to cover the costs of the demolition and transport of the carbuncles to a site of their choosing in Jordan. The Jews know that there is no such compulsion as the right of return and will take reparation instead.

But you are a known LIAR and have never once agreed or accepted that the lands were ever Jewish and so would ignore any such claims.   Why do you answer questions with answers that bear no relation to the question. The question was by what authority did the arab muslims evict the Jews who were not and never would be a danger to the country. Had they attacked their hosts, shown any belligerence or threatened them in any way


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You slime the source but cannot refute the issues.
> 
> That's good to know.
Click to expand...








 How many more times do you need to see them refuted and proven to be false before you accept they are false testimony. What is your favourite reply when ever your links are ripped apart and proven wrong again, something to do with Israeli talking points isnt it ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood industries propaganda presents the lies again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You slime the source but cannot refute the issues.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Issues that are raised in your silly, scripted cut and paste YouTube videos are people's personal opinions. Where is your response to the videos that actually do refute your videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the one where the cover photo is a rocket being launched in Syria?
Click to expand...





On who's say so, I bet it is some islamonazi with an axe to grind


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Village Histories: Geographies of the Displaced *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
Click to expand...

You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?
Click to expand...

When the Jews call for the right to return I will support them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the Jews call for the right to return I will support them.
Click to expand...

They already have called for and implemented a right of return. And let's be honest, the Jewish right of return was in spite of the screeching and acts of war waged and lost by your islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the Jews call for the right to return I will support them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have called for and implemented a right of return. And let's be honest, the Jewish right of return was in spite of the screeching and acts of war waged and lost by your islamic terrorist heroes.
Click to expand...

Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the Jews call for the right to return I will support them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have called for and implemented a right of return. And let's be honest, the Jewish right of return was in spite of the screeching and acts of war waged and lost by your islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?
Click to expand...


False premise.

But then, why would anyone grant a right of return for Egyptians. Syrians and Lebanese to some imagined place you call the country of Pal'istan, that never existed.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?



Oh please.  Enough with this argument that the Jewish people aren't "really" Jews and that you have some magic formula to determine exactly which Jews have ancestors from Israel and which do not.  

Would you care to present your plan for determining whether or not any particular person belongs or does not belong to an ethnic or national group that you would apply to any ethnic or national group?

How, for example, are we determining which Palestinians qualify for a right of return?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Enough with this argument that the Jewish people aren't "really" Jews and that you have some magic formula to determine exactly which Jews have ancestors from Israel and which do not.
> 
> Would you care to present your plan for determining whether or not any particular person belongs or does not belong to an ethnic or national group that you would apply to any ethnic or national group?
> 
> How, for example, are we determining which Palestinians qualify for a right of return?
Click to expand...

Oh please. Enough with this argument that the Jewish people aren't "really" Jews...​
I have never said that.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Oh please. Enough with this argument that the Jewish people aren't "really" Jews...​
> I have never said that.



Oh please.  You are creating a difference between those Jews who were not ethnically cleansed and those Jews who were forced into the Diaspora -- claiming that one group is from the territory and one group has no ties to the territory and are thus not really "Jews" but some sort of "other".


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the Jews call for the right to return I will support them.
Click to expand...







 They are and you are denying them. The Temple mount is Jewish, all the religious places in palestine are Jewish and you support the arab muslims when they use violence to stop the Jews from accessing these places.


 YOUR LIES ARE COMING BACK TO HAUNT YOU AND YOU ARE SEEN AS AN ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The reason for leaving is irrelevant to the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should screech at the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese about a right of return for their former residents. Why is it that islamo-supremacists deny Jews a right of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the Jews call for the right to return I will support them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already have called for and implemented a right of return. And let's be honest, the Jewish right of return was in spite of the screeching and acts of war waged and lost by your islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?
Click to expand...








 And your evidence of this is what exactly, the word of some islaqmonazi propagandist. Or is it the report on some hate site that says it is told in the Elders of Zion. Once it was shown that 90% of the arab muslims had never set foot in Israel the LIES started, even though geneticists had shown that the vast majority of the world Jews carry the distinctive Jewish genome. A genome that is singular to only the Jews, and can even distinguish the tribe they originated from.



 WANT TO TRY AGAIN WITHOUT THE LIES ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Enough with this argument that the Jewish people aren't "really" Jews and that you have some magic formula to determine exactly which Jews have ancestors from Israel and which do not.
> 
> Would you care to present your plan for determining whether or not any particular person belongs or does not belong to an ethnic or national group that you would apply to any ethnic or national group?
> 
> How, for example, are we determining which Palestinians qualify for a right of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please. Enough with this argument that the Jewish people aren't "really" Jews...​
> I have never said that.
Click to expand...







 Look up and you will see these words under your name

 Oh you mean the right to "return" to a place that they or none of their ancestors have ever been?


Means the same thing, and seeing as the link has been proven it shows that you will LIE twice to demonise the Jews and take away their rights


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanianz?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?










 From 70 C.E. to 1964 the palestinians were the Jews as this is the nasty word used by Christians and muslims to describe them. Then the world jumped on arafats claims of a filastin nation and called the arab muslims palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

_Mahmoud Shaalan
_

_On Feb. 26, Mahmoud Shaalan, a 16-year-old Palestinian-American born and raised in Florida, was shot by Israeli soldiers multiple times at a checkpoint near the Beit El settlement in the occupied Palestinian territory. The below letter was sent to the White House by 15 human rights organizations, including AFSC, on Sept. 28, 2016._

Dear Mr. President,

The undersigned organizations call on your administration to demand that Israel publicly release all evidence related to the recent investigation into the fatal shooting of U.S. citizen, Mahmoud Shaalan, by Israeli soldiers seven months ago.

We also urge your administration to conduct an investigation into the killing. As Mahmoud Shaalan was a U.S. citizen, the U.S. government has a particular responsibility to ensure that a thorough, proper and impartial investigation is conducted.  As the largest supplier of weapons, munitions and security equipment to Israel, the U.S. government bears the added responsibility of verifying that no U.S. supplied arms were used in an unlawful killing.

Human rights organizations urge Obama to investigate killing of U.S. citizen​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> _Mahmoud Shaalan
> _
> 
> _On Feb. 26, Mahmoud Shaalan, a 16-year-old Palestinian-American born and raised in Florida, was shot by Israeli soldiers multiple times at a checkpoint near the Beit El settlement in the occupied Palestinian territory. The below letter was sent to the White House by 15 human rights organizations, including AFSC, on Sept. 28, 2016._
> 
> Dear Mr. President,
> 
> The undersigned organizations call on your administration to demand that Israel publicly release all evidence related to the recent investigation into the fatal shooting of U.S. citizen, Mahmoud Shaalan, by Israeli soldiers seven months ago.
> 
> We also urge your administration to conduct an investigation into the killing. As Mahmoud Shaalan was a U.S. citizen, the U.S. government has a particular responsibility to ensure that a thorough, proper and impartial investigation is conducted.  As the largest supplier of weapons, munitions and security equipment to Israel, the U.S. government bears the added responsibility of verifying that no U.S. supplied arms were used in an unlawful killing.
> 
> Human rights organizations urge Obama to investigate killing of U.S. citizen​


If you do a search, the situation doesnt appear to be the conspiracy you want it to be.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *


----------



## Hollie

*Jews in Birzeit*:


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *



Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
Click to expand...

I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
You need better sources.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
Click to expand...

Mad Magazine suit you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mad Magazine suit you?
Click to expand...

It would be a step up from your current sources.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mad Magazine suit you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would be a step up from your current sources.
Click to expand...


Evidently you don't  botther to read about what your fellow Arabs are doing on campuses.  You are too busy watching all the videos sent you by some Hamas official.  Couldn't the Muslims have just listened to the speech at Irvine and then questioned the speaker afterward?  Was that too much to ask?

What  would be justice is if the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, etc. students start a protest against what the Muslims have done to their people.  What a great video that would be for you to pull up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mad Magazine suit you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would be a step up from your current sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidently you don't  botther to read about what your fellow Arabs are doing on campuses.  You are too busy watching all the videos sent you by some Hamas official.  Couldn't the Muslims have just listened to the speech at Irvine and then questioned the speaker afterward?  Was that too much to ask?
> 
> What  would be justice is if the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, etc. students start a protest against what the Muslims have done to their people.  What a great video that would be for you to pull up.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't believe in shouting people down. I prefer to allow him to make an ass of himself.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mad Magazine suit you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would be a step up from your current sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidently you don't  botther to read about what your fellow Arabs are doing on campuses.  You are too busy watching all the videos sent you by some Hamas official.  Couldn't the Muslims have just listened to the speech at Irvine and then questioned the speaker afterward?  Was that too much to ask?
> 
> What  would be justice is if the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, etc. students start a protest against what the Muslims have done to their people.  What a great video that would be for you to pull up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally I don't believe in shouting people down. I prefer to allow him to make an ass of himself.
Click to expand...


Just like you and your new sidekick do.  One thing it is obvious.  She really doesn't sound like you, and she certainly is more wordy in her posts.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> _Mahmoud Shaalan
> _
> 
> _On Feb. 26, Mahmoud Shaalan, a 16-year-old Palestinian-American born and raised in Florida, was shot by Israeli soldiers multiple times at a checkpoint near the Beit El settlement in the occupied Palestinian territory. The below letter was sent to the White House by 15 human rights organizations, including AFSC, on Sept. 28, 2016._
> 
> Dear Mr. President,
> 
> The undersigned organizations call on your administration to demand that Israel publicly release all evidence related to the recent investigation into the fatal shooting of U.S. citizen, Mahmoud Shaalan, by Israeli soldiers seven months ago.
> 
> We also urge your administration to conduct an investigation into the killing. As Mahmoud Shaalan was a U.S. citizen, the U.S. government has a particular responsibility to ensure that a thorough, proper and impartial investigation is conducted.  As the largest supplier of weapons, munitions and security equipment to Israel, the U.S. government bears the added responsibility of verifying that no U.S. supplied arms were used in an unlawful killing.
> 
> Human rights organizations urge Obama to investigate killing of U.S. citizen​










 What was he doing is a palestinian war zone where terrorist attacks were taking place. Any idiot can leave out the parts that show the incident was a terrorist getting shot in the act of attacking


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SDSU Muslim Students Meet with University President Over Hate Posters *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
Click to expand...







 Then why dont you provide them so we can see for ourselves ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of college students, Tinmore, did your friends really have to try to disrupt the Israeli Ambassador from speaking.  This appears to happen on many of the campuses in America and Canada by the Muslim Students Association whenever a speaker is pro Israel.  I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read about the Jews disrupting speeches by  your fellow Arabs..​
> You need better sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mad Magazine suit you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would be a step up from your current sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidently you don't  botther to read about what your fellow Arabs are doing on campuses.  You are too busy watching all the videos sent you by some Hamas official.  Couldn't the Muslims have just listened to the speech at Irvine and then questioned the speaker afterward?  Was that too much to ask?
> 
> What  would be justice is if the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, etc. students start a protest against what the Muslims have done to their people.  What a great video that would be for you to pull up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally I don't believe in shouting people down. I prefer to allow him to make an ass of himself.
Click to expand...






 Do you mean like we are doing to you when we let you post your pallywood propaganda on here ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

*Palestinian Activist Susan Abulhawa Speaks To Philly Justice Coalition and Black Lives Matter *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


What idiot wrote that headline?

Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
Click to expand...

Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
Click to expand...

I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...

Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.

Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.

The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:

The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA 
Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22) 

It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.

And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
“If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”

BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.



Oh give me a break.  You are trying to tell me that these violent individuals are combatants and that isolated individual LEO's are valid military objectives?  

The INTENT is to create pressure on the Israelis to conform to unreasonable demands by terrorizing them.  Thus, its terrorism.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.



Great post, as usual, Rocco.  Just want to touch on this part a bit.  

The political goals of the HoAP (destruction of the State of Israel, prevention of Jewish self-determination and sovereignty over any territory, Islamic waqf) *can not be achieved *by any means currently available.  

Peaceful means will bring them self-determination and sovereignty over some portion of the territory if they can scrape together the will to divert their energy from impossible ideological/religious goals and concentrate on nation-building.  

High-level, all-out, multi-national warfare will bring a catastrophic (for them) response from Israel, the US and, I expect, a number of the more rational Arab/Muslim nations.  

The low-level terrorism they are currently practicing buys them some time, but is ultimately a losing strategy as they gain nothing, drain their own resources, lose the interest and respect of the international community while Israel grows stronger and chips away at choice bits of territory.  

Time for them to stop pursuing their impossible goal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.​
I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.

Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.​
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh come-on.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.

Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.

I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.  

Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter...​
What part of the charter says that it was illegal for the Arab states to enter Palestine?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.​
Are they required to accept offers that suck?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.​
The Arabs were fighting Israeli forces in Palestine. How is that aggressive?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.​
> The Arabs were fighting Israeli forces in Palestine. How is that aggressive?
Click to expand...


Umm, the Arab-Moslem invaders from Arab-Moslem countries were the attacking force. Those forces pushed aside the Pal'istanians in your mythical country of Pal'istan in their attempted Jew killing gee-had. 

How do you get so much of this so completely wrong?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.​
> Are they required to accept offers that suck?
Click to expand...

"They" certainly have every intention to leech on to and suck the life out of their own dedicated welfare fraud. 

The "country" not of Pal'istan but the country of "Fraud and Misfits".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter...​
> What part of the charter says that it was illegal for the Arab states to enter Palestine?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

So.... your mythical country of Pal'istan was an accomplice that aided and abetted attacking armies waging war? 

Such acts carry consequences.

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’ *

The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.

The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.

All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Arabs were fighting Israeli forces in Palestine. How is that aggressive?



Um.  Because they were attacking a neighboring independent State with the purpose of destroying its government and murdering its people?  Seems pretty aggressive to me.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Are they required to accept offers that suck?



Palestinians and Team Palestine have a strange idea of what "sucks".

*Palestine handed everything they asked for on a silver platter*

Team Palestine:  "Ah, man, that sucks!"

Team Israel:  "How does that suck?"

Team Palestine:  "You are monitoring us so that we can't attack you!"


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’ *
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
Click to expand...


Just guessing here, but I suspect Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan would also represent islam as being.... wait for it.....
_The Religion of Peace™
_
Consider sending Jordan a Google link to "Black September". Let us know what you hear back.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/


*(COMMENT)*

There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.

The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee

It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.


Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version

Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.

Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.

It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.
> 
> The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee
> 
> It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.
> 
> Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.
> 
> It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.​
What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.
> 
> The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee
> 
> It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.
> 
> Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.
> 
> It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.​
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
Click to expand...

The Hamas Charter, as a function of retrograde Islamist ideology, concerns itself with exterminating Jews. Those attributes are not addressed in the principles of the UN. 

Your perceived entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism as fulfillment of an ancient theocratic code is met with a much stronger and more resilient purpose. Nearly seven decades of a useless gee-had. Your Arab-Moslem terrorist heroes are less relevant now than ever before.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.
> 
> The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee
> 
> It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.
> 
> Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.
> 
> It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.​
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas Charter, as a function of retrograde Islamist ideology, concerns itself with exterminating Jews. Those attributes are not addressed in the principles of the UN.
> 
> Your perceived entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism as fulfillment of an ancient theocratic code is met with a much stronger and more resilient purpose. Nearly seven decades of a useless gee-had. Your Arab-Moslem terrorist heroes are less relevant now than ever before.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.
> 
> The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee
> 
> It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.
> 
> Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.
> 
> It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.​
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas Charter, as a function of retrograde Islamist ideology, concerns itself with exterminating Jews. Those attributes are not addressed in the principles of the UN.
> 
> Your perceived entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism as fulfillment of an ancient theocratic code is met with a much stronger and more resilient purpose. Nearly seven decades of a useless gee-had. Your Arab-Moslem terrorist heroes are less relevant now than ever before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

Resigning _after_ you have been fired makes you weak and ineffectual.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

MEMRI: Hamas Sermon from the Gaza Strip: Our Doctrine Entails Exterminating the Jews


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

It must be remembered that the first two Articles of the Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism (Cairo Declaration) are written such that the Arab Palestinians cannot be accused of terrorism IF the Jihadis, Insurgents, Rebels, Fedayeen, Radical Islamic Followers, and other Arab Asymmetric Warfare Operators (AAWO) CLAIM to be conducting activities, by whatever means they find necessary, against foreign occupation to further for liberation and self-determination.   This set the AAWO outside the criticism of *UN Charter --- Chapter 1 --- Article 2(3)*  directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

In the words of Peace, security and stability will not be achieved unless the occupation ends .  We will together continue with you our national, political and legal struggle. _(Excerpts Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Speeches, October 14, 2015)_

*(IMPORTANT POINT OF CLARIFICATION)*

We often hear about what is legal, and what is not legal; as well as the nature of the Belligerent Occupation. 




​There is no exemption under international law, for Palestinians who take part in hostilities against the Israeli Occupation.  When the Arab Palestinians initiate hostilities, they become a combatant.  No matter how obscure the Arab Convention may make it, they are subject to consequences as a belligerent. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
Click to expand...

*(QUICK REFERENCE)*

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
*Article 68:*

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under *Article 66 [ Link ]* of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with *Articles 64 [ Link ]* and *65 [ Link ]* may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
Article 75 [ Link ] -- Fundamental guarantees

2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents:
(a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular:

(i) murder;

(ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental;

(iii) corporal punishment; and

(iv) mutilation;​(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form of indecent assault;

(c) the taking of hostages;

(d) collective punishments; and

(e) threats to commit any of the foregoing acts.​*(COMMENT)*

What I find to interesting is that lengths to which the Arab Palestinian will go to in order to justify their kidnapping and murder, and other violence to the directed against the life, health, or physical well-being of Civilians which are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

I though it was kind of interesting that the Arab Convention did not cover terrorist "Bombing" _(most of the activity by Palestinian Terrorist)_ or the *San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea* _(which is applicable to the Israeli Blockade)_.  But then, it is merely subterfuge to make it appear like the Arab League supports international counter-terrorism activity.  But any one that looks at the Palestinians that participated in the Munich Olympic Massacre, or the Beach Attack that killed the niece Senator Abraham Ribicoff, or the piracy of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in which a wheelchair bound American was killed, or when Palestinians hijacked TWA Flight 741, or when the Palestinians killed Americans at a Paris Restaurant, or any number of other Palestinian attacks directed solely at non-combatant civilians.  The does not count the thousands of rockets launched, deadly infiltrations, or the kidnap and Murder of civilians.

While the Arabs can use the color or law to alter the scope and nature of the crime, it cannot really change this pattern of criminal behaviors, or the fact that the general citizenry are taught as children --- these types of acts are rewarded in the next life.  You can make any claim you want, but the planks that reveal the Palestinian intention the conduct a widespread and systematic program of attacks directed against the Israeli population is obvious _(and even boasted by Palestinian Officials)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It must be remembered that the first two Articles of the Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism (Cairo Declaration) are written such that the Arab Palestinians cannot be accused of terrorism IF the Jihadis, Insurgents, Rebels, Fedayeen, Radical Islamic Followers, and other Arab Asymmetric Warfare Operators (AAWO) CLAIM to be conducting activities, by whatever means they find necessary, against foreign occupation to further for liberation and self-determination.   This set the AAWO outside the criticism of *UN Charter --- Chapter 1 --- Article 2(3)*  directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
> 
> In the words of Peace, security and stability will not be achieved unless the occupation ends .  We will together continue with you our national, political and legal struggle. _(Excerpts Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Speeches, October 14, 2015)_
> 
> *(IMPORTANT POINT OF CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> We often hear about what is legal, and what is not legal; as well as the nature of the Belligerent Occupation.
> 
> View attachment 93148​There is no exemption under international law, for Palestinians who take part in hostilities against the Israeli Occupation.  When the Arab Palestinians initiate hostilities, they become a combatant.  No matter how obscure the Arab Convention may make it, they are subject to consequences as a belligerent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUICK REFERENCE)*
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> *Article 68:*
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under *Article 66 [ Link ]* of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with *Articles 64 [ Link ]* and *65 [ Link ]* may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
> Article 75 [ Link ] -- Fundamental guarantees
> 
> 2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents:
> (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular:
> 
> (i) murder;
> 
> (ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental;
> 
> (iii) corporal punishment; and
> 
> (iv) mutilation;​(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form of indecent assault;
> 
> (c) the taking of hostages;
> 
> (d) collective punishments; and
> 
> (e) threats to commit any of the foregoing acts.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I find to interesting is that lengths to which the Arab Palestinian will go to in order to justify their kidnapping and murder, and other violence to the directed against the life, health, or physical well-being of Civilians which are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
> 
> I though it was kind of interesting that the Arab Convention did not cover terrorist "Bombing" _(most of the activity by Palestinian Terrorist)_ or the *San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea* _(which is applicable to the Israeli Blockade)_.  But then, it is merely subterfuge to make it appear like the Arab League supports international counter-terrorism activity.  But any one that looks at the Palestinians that participated in the Munich Olympic Massacre, or the Beach Attack that killed the niece Senator Abraham Ribicoff, or the piracy of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in which a wheelchair bound American was killed, or when Palestinians hijacked TWA Flight 741, or when the Palestinians killed Americans at a Paris Restaurant, or any number of other Palestinian attacks directed solely at non-combatant civilians.  The does not count the thousands of rockets launched, deadly infiltrations, or the kidnap and Murder of civilians.
> 
> While the Arabs can use the color or law to alter the scope and nature of the crime, it cannot really change this pattern of criminal behaviors, or the fact that the general citizenry are taught as children --- these types of acts are rewarded in the next life.  You can make any claim you want, but the planks that reveal the Palestinian intention the conduct a widespread and systematic program of attacks directed against the Israeli population is obvious _(and even boasted by Palestinian Officials)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.​
Such as?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It must be remembered that the first two Articles of the Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism (Cairo Declaration) are written such that the Arab Palestinians cannot be accused of terrorism IF the Jihadis, Insurgents, Rebels, Fedayeen, Radical Islamic Followers, and other Arab Asymmetric Warfare Operators (AAWO) CLAIM to be conducting activities, by whatever means they find necessary, against foreign occupation to further for liberation and self-determination.   This set the AAWO outside the criticism of *UN Charter --- Chapter 1 --- Article 2(3)*  directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
> 
> In the words of Peace, security and stability will not be achieved unless the occupation ends .  We will together continue with you our national, political and legal struggle. _(Excerpts Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Speeches, October 14, 2015)_
> 
> *(IMPORTANT POINT OF CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> We often hear about what is legal, and what is not legal; as well as the nature of the Belligerent Occupation.
> 
> View attachment 93148​There is no exemption under international law, for Palestinians who take part in hostilities against the Israeli Occupation.  When the Arab Palestinians initiate hostilities, they become a combatant.  No matter how obscure the Arab Convention may make it, they are subject to consequences as a belligerent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUICK REFERENCE)*
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> *Article 68:*
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under *Article 66 [ Link ]* of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with *Articles 64 [ Link ]* and *65 [ Link ]* may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
> Article 75 [ Link ] -- Fundamental guarantees
> 
> 2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents:
> (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular:
> 
> (i) murder;
> 
> (ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental;
> 
> (iii) corporal punishment; and
> 
> (iv) mutilation;​(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form of indecent assault;
> 
> (c) the taking of hostages;
> 
> (d) collective punishments; and
> 
> (e) threats to commit any of the foregoing acts.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I find to interesting is that lengths to which the Arab Palestinian will go to in order to justify their kidnapping and murder, and other violence to the directed against the life, health, or physical well-being of Civilians which are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
> 
> I though it was kind of interesting that the Arab Convention did not cover terrorist "Bombing" _(most of the activity by Palestinian Terrorist)_ or the *San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea* _(which is applicable to the Israeli Blockade)_.  But then, it is merely subterfuge to make it appear like the Arab League supports international counter-terrorism activity.  But any one that looks at the Palestinians that participated in the Munich Olympic Massacre, or the Beach Attack that killed the niece Senator Abraham Ribicoff, or the piracy of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in which a wheelchair bound American was killed, or when Palestinians hijacked TWA Flight 741, or when the Palestinians killed Americans at a Paris Restaurant, or any number of other Palestinian attacks directed solely at non-combatant civilians.  The does not count the thousands of rockets launched, deadly infiltrations, or the kidnap and Murder of civilians.
> 
> While the Arabs can use the color or law to alter the scope and nature of the crime, it cannot really change this pattern of criminal behaviors, or the fact that the general citizenry are taught as children --- these types of acts are rewarded in the next life.  You can make any claim you want, but the planks that reveal the Palestinian intention the conduct a widespread and systematic program of attacks directed against the Israeli population is obvious _(and even boasted by Palestinian Officials)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> Such as?
Click to expand...


"...directing all international disputes by peaceful means..."

From the Hamas Charter:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."



We seem to be on the horns of a dilemma here.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

There is the thing we have called the "Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR).  It states that for every real event _(not hypotheticals and excluding that which is buried in deceitfulness or deception)_ which appears to be characterized by observation, detection or imagery that differ from objective reality, --- has a rational explanation.  The Scholar, Diplomat, Statesman, or Leader may not know what the true explanation is, but in this reality there must be one.  This is true even if you travers between one reality _(the Western culture)_ to another reality _(the culture of the Arab Islamic World)_. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> --- directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered. --- ​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Such as?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

While I will admit that, having seen the cream of the crop in the Diplomatic Foreign Service, I suppose that the US will have to leave much of the diplomatic wrangling to a more competent nation.  But the entire reason for each nation having a diplomats of their own is to brilliantly develop alternatives when the tradition methonds are found wanting.

The recurring theme, goal and objective in the Charter of the United Nations is the maintenance and safeguarding peace.  To that end, the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations _(*A/RES/25/2625*)_ fosters that:  



Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.
States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by *negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice*. In seeking such a settlement the parties shall agree upon such peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute.

The parties to a dispute have the duty, in the event of failure to reach a solution by any one of the above peaceful means, to continue to seek a settlement of the dispute by other peaceful means agreed upon by them.

States parties to an international dispute, as well as other States shall refrain from any action which may aggravate the Situation so as to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, and shall act in accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

International disputes shall be settled on the basis of the Sovereign equality of States and in accordance with the Principle of free choice of means. Recourse to, or acceptance of, a settlement procedure freely agreed to by States with regard to existing or future disputes to which they are parties shall not be regarded as incompatible with sovereign equality.

Nothing in the foregoing paragraphs prejudices or derogates from the applicable provisions of the Charter, in particular those relating to the pacific settlement of international disputes.

Now this is diametrically opposed to the Arab Palestinian Policy that

√ Palestinian National Charter: 

•  The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void. Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood.

•  The Palestine Liberation Organization, representative of the Palestinian revolutionary forces, is responsible for the Palestinian Arab people's movement in its struggle - to retrieve its homeland, liberate and return to it and exercise the right to self-determination in it - in all military, political, and financial fields and also for whatever may be required by the Palestine case on the inter-Arab and international levels.

•  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.​
√  HAMAS Covenant:

•  Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

•  The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day.  This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law).

•  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> *Palestinian Activist Susan Abulhawa Speaks To Philly Justice Coalition and Black Lives Matter *
> 
> **









 Did you read the comments, here is the first one



"So sick of this lady's bullcrap. She is a Jew hating Muslim propagandist. Palestinians are only being attacked when THEY attack and Palis are ALWAYS the instigators!!"


So you see others call your sources islamonazi propaganda as well.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
Click to expand...






 According to islamonazi terrorists that dont see targetting children with illegal weapons as terrorism either. How many times have you been shown the UN view on this that shows the arab muslims are illegal immigrants and are committing illegal acts deemed to be terrorist acts under their charter. 


ANOTHER FAILURE BY YOU TO ALTER INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND TREATIES IN YOUR FAVOUR BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT IT IS TERRORISM UNDER THE AGREED DEFINITIONS. NO MENTION OF THIS BEING "ALLOWED" UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES IN ANY LEGAL TREATIES.


 WHAT IDIOT BELIEVE THAT BREACHING THE UN CHARTER IS NOT ILLEGAL AND CAN BE SEEN AS AN ACT OFTERRORISM


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.​
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
Click to expand...







 And where isyour evidence of any terrorist action by Israel then, how about you show the internationally agreed acts of terrorism as a starter. And islamonazi nations and their stooges do not apply


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter...​
> What part of the charter says that it was illegal for the Arab states to enter Palestine?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...









 They didnt enter palestine as that did not exist till 1988, they did enter the mandate of palestine that was granted under international laws to the Jews.In effect they invaded sovereign British lands which is covered by the UN charter. More precisely it is covered by this section

Chapter VII | United Nations


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.​
> Are they required to accept offers that suck?
Click to expand...






No they dont, but they are not allowed to fire illegal weapons across internationally recognised borders or to engage in terrorist actions against Israeli peacekeeping forces.

If they do accept any such offers they need to re-negociate the terms, not just tear up their copy and refuse to accept the terms any more


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.​
> The Arabs were fighting Israeli forces in Palestine. How is that aggressive?
Click to expand...








 Because the arab's had no legal rights to be there after invading MANDATE OF PALESTINE land granted to the Jews as their national home. It was not arab muslim sovereign land under any legal treaty so it was an act of aggressive invasion by the arab league that should have resulted in an all out attack by the combined UN forces to drive them all out and over the borders agreed by the LoN in 1923. Then point to the section that the arab muslims demanded be placed in the LoN treaty and mandate of palestine banning arab muslims from the Jewish national home


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’ *
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
Click to expand...









 AND!!!!!!!    all this shows is that the muslims wont face up to the truth about themselves, and how the rest of the world views them.    You are as blind and as stupid as they are when you deny their actions are terrorism and illegal


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.​
> The Arabs were fighting Israeli forces in Palestine. How is that aggressive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arab's had no legal rights to be there after invading MANDATE OF PALESTINE land granted to the Jews as their national home. It was not arab muslim sovereign land under any legal treaty so it was an act of aggressive invasion by the arab league that should have resulted in an all out attack by the combined UN forces to drive them all out and over the borders agreed by the LoN in 1923. Then point to the section that the arab muslims demanded be placed in the LoN treaty and mandate of palestine banning arab muslims from the Jewish national home
Click to expand...

after invading MANDATE OF PALESTINE​
You are full of crap, as usual.

The Mandate left Palestine the day before the Arabs armies entered Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What idiot wrote that headline?
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’ *
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND!!!!!!!    all this shows is that the muslims wont face up to the truth about themselves, and how the rest of the world views them.    You are as blind and as stupid as they are when you deny their actions are terrorism and illegal
Click to expand...

Still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign, I see.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.
> 
> The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee
> 
> It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.
> 
> Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.
> 
> It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.​
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
Click to expand...








 Because it is one sided, as it does not apply to arab muslim foreign occupation. In this case it is a right of the arab muslims to steal land belonging to other people because their god told them to take the whole world as theirs


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, yes...   We've seen this before, where the Arab Palestinians plead with governmental institutions to pressure a rewrite of history to fit their view.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’*
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no way, under the reasonable man concept, can productive and frank exchange on this topic happen with the Arab Community.
> 
> The Arab Community has their own definitions and program (The Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) that do not include the International Convention on the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing (or a number of other conventions).   See:  UN Security Council --- Counter-terrorism Committee
> 
> It is very important to understand that The Arab Convention For The Suppression Of Terrorism League of Arab States April 1998 cannot back-peddle or regroup.  Back in 1998, shortly after the First World Trade Center Arab Bombing (February 1993), the Arab League began to craft their own Convention.
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 1998 version
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.  ----  2011 version.​Under Arab unique law (which our friend P F Tinmore operates) The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not have to recognize the Fourth Geneva Convention or the International Convention on the Suppression of terrorist Bombing.  They believe, and have always believed, as Radical Islamist, they are above the law.
> 
> Article 2 of the Arab Convention is really interesting.  It makes it virtually impossible to challenge an Arab Terrorist Group as terrorist under Arab Law.
> 
> It is one of the reasons that Arabs in general are intrinsically tied to terrorism; the poster child if you will.  This is why that when an Arab League State claims to be involved in the suppression of terrorism, or will suppress terrorism, they cannot be held accountable because that pledge means absolutely nothing.  (100% empty words.)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.​
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas Charter, as a function of retrograde Islamist ideology, concerns itself with exterminating Jews. Those attributes are not addressed in the principles of the UN.
> 
> Your perceived entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism as fulfillment of an ancient theocratic code is met with a much stronger and more resilient purpose. Nearly seven decades of a useless gee-had. Your Arab-Moslem terrorist heroes are less relevant now than ever before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...






 No on topic and covering the subject matter at hand. 

 ANOTHER FAIL


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It must be remembered that the first two Articles of the Arab Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism (Cairo Declaration) are written such that the Arab Palestinians cannot be accused of terrorism IF the Jihadis, Insurgents, Rebels, Fedayeen, Radical Islamic Followers, and other Arab Asymmetric Warfare Operators (AAWO) CLAIM to be conducting activities, by whatever means they find necessary, against foreign occupation to further for liberation and self-determination.   This set the AAWO outside the criticism of *UN Charter --- Chapter 1 --- Article 2(3)*  directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
> 
> In the words of Peace, security and stability will not be achieved unless the occupation ends .  We will together continue with you our national, political and legal struggle. _(Excerpts Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Speeches, October 14, 2015)_
> 
> *(IMPORTANT POINT OF CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> We often hear about what is legal, and what is not legal; as well as the nature of the Belligerent Occupation.
> 
> View attachment 93148​There is no exemption under international law, for Palestinians who take part in hostilities against the Israeli Occupation.  When the Arab Palestinians initiate hostilities, they become a combatant.  No matter how obscure the Arab Convention may make it, they are subject to consequences as a belligerent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Affirming the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions. ---- 2011 version.
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this goes against international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUICK REFERENCE)*
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> *Article 68:*
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under *Article 66 [ Link ]* of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with *Articles 64 [ Link ]* and *65 [ Link ]* may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
> Article 75 [ Link ] -- Fundamental guarantees
> 
> 2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents:
> (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular:
> 
> (i) murder;
> 
> (ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental;
> 
> (iii) corporal punishment; and
> 
> (iv) mutilation;​(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form of indecent assault;
> 
> (c) the taking of hostages;
> 
> (d) collective punishments; and
> 
> (e) threats to commit any of the foregoing acts.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I find to interesting is that lengths to which the Arab Palestinian will go to in order to justify their kidnapping and murder, and other violence to the directed against the life, health, or physical well-being of Civilians which are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
> 
> I though it was kind of interesting that the Arab Convention did not cover terrorist "Bombing" _(most of the activity by Palestinian Terrorist)_ or the *San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea* _(which is applicable to the Israeli Blockade)_.  But then, it is merely subterfuge to make it appear like the Arab League supports international counter-terrorism activity.  But any one that looks at the Palestinians that participated in the Munich Olympic Massacre, or the Beach Attack that killed the niece Senator Abraham Ribicoff, or the piracy of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in which a wheelchair bound American was killed, or when Palestinians hijacked TWA Flight 741, or when the Palestinians killed Americans at a Paris Restaurant, or any number of other Palestinian attacks directed solely at non-combatant civilians.  The does not count the thousands of rockets launched, deadly infiltrations, or the kidnap and Murder of civilians.
> 
> While the Arabs can use the color or law to alter the scope and nature of the crime, it cannot really change this pattern of criminal behaviors, or the fact that the general citizenry are taught as children --- these types of acts are rewarded in the next life.  You can make any claim you want, but the planks that reveal the Palestinian intention the conduct a widespread and systematic program of attacks directed against the Israeli population is obvious _(and even boasted by Palestinian Officials)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> directing all international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.​
> Such as?
Click to expand...








 Not firing illegal rockets at Israeli children going to school, as this is not a military target. But firing legal guided rockets at the firing positions of the illegal rockets in school grounds is. The line is very clear so there can be no confusion.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh come-on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really. It is just that the Palestinians are pikers compared to Israel's terrorism. Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Yet Israel throws around the terrorist label like candy at a blossom time parade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, especially post-1967, have been whiners and crybabies about being on the wrong side of the law.  They start a fistfight and whiny when they get thumped.   They are offered opportunities to resolve the issues, and turn-them down saying:  We have the right to turn-down unfair offers.  And as the rekindle the conflict, they cry it is unfair for the Israelis to defend themselves.
> 
> Each rocket fired into Israel is just another brick in the wall of evidence of the Arab Palestinians intentionally and programmed policy of launching attacks in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated.
> 
> I think it is fairly understood that the invasion of 1948 was initiated by the Arab (the First use of armed force) by a State (the Arab League and irregular Arab Palestinian units) in contravention of the Charter --- _prima facie_ evidence of an act of aggression.  And while the two Arab League Nations that actually occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip have made peace with Israel, the Arab Palestinians never have; instead asking that ALL of _(what they considered)_ Palestine be turned over to them _(essentially a surrender)_.
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.  It is unreasonable to assume that Israel should surrender any part of the territory.  While it is relatively clear that Israel does not want the West Bank and Gaza Strip, assessing each of them as an economic and parasitic albatross, the Arab League aggressors have used the territory as a gateway for invasions.  And while today, about two-thirds of the borders are internationally recognized via treaty, the degree of strategic uncertainty for Israel,
> given current political views of the Arab League around it, is in flux.  This is just one of the simplified considerations included in the question of "defensible borders."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel successfully defended its bid for independence in the face of Arab Aggression.​
> The Arabs were fighting Israeli forces in Palestine. How is that aggressive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the arab's had no legal rights to be there after invading MANDATE OF PALESTINE land granted to the Jews as their national home. It was not arab muslim sovereign land under any legal treaty so it was an act of aggressive invasion by the arab league that should have resulted in an all out attack by the combined UN forces to drive them all out and over the borders agreed by the LoN in 1923. Then point to the section that the arab muslims demanded be placed in the LoN treaty and mandate of palestine banning arab muslims from the Jewish national home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> after invading MANDATE OF PALESTINE​
> You are full of crap, as usual.
> 
> The Mandate left Palestine the day before the Arabs armies entered Palestine.
Click to expand...








 You are confusing the mandate with the mandatory again. The Mandate of palestine is still in force as a small amount of the land is not a legal nation yet. It was the mandatory ( being the British government) that left, the actual legal process called the mandate of palestine passed into the UN hands in 1945. For the record the arab armies started their invasion in 1921 when the mufti mobilised paramilitary groups to remove the Jews. The arab league mobilised its forces the year preceeding the declaration of independence and the British handing the reign's to the UN as mandatory.


 CANT YOU READ THE HISTORY BOOKS BASED ON DOCUMENTED FACT AND REALITY AND SO RELY ON ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza Strip) is the hub of several affiliated and associated Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The "label" of "Terrorist" is assigned based on the effect of a technique relative to a target.
> 
> Attacking techniques such as hijacking, bombing, kidnapping and assassination to assert their demands of  Israel, are also real threats to Western world.
> 
> The characteristics of a most HoAP Terrorists usually include a campaign that violates the rules of modern warfare, established in acts called the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions.  In the case of the HoAP, we see:
> 
> The HoAP (protected persons) commit offense which are solely intended to harm the Israel (Occupying Power); taking action that endanger the life or limb of the occupying forces and administration.  The HoAP do represent a grave collective danger (HAMAS,Palestinian Islamic Jihad etc) inflicting seriously damage the property of the Israeli occupying forces and administration and the installations used by them. (Article 68, GCIV)​
> We observe that the HoAP apply technique of terrorism to achieve political change (the elimination of the Jewish State) and the establishment of a consecrated Islamic Waqf (HAMAS).  While the throw-weight behind an HoAP attacks, sometime even symbolic in nature, they are meant to impress fear; interrupting the tranquility of the day and replacing it with  panic, horror, and trepidation.  This is used to intimidate the public; and designed to draw the attention the public and media to the political demands and political objective that the HoAP could not achieve through the peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flailing your Pom Poms for your islamic terrorist heroes from behind the safety of your keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> I know everyone has to get on board of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether we talk about the Palestinian Terrorist by individual groups like HAMAS, or collectively as in the HoAP, we see the same process over and over again; placing and detonating an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.  ( 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings)
> Short Title / Abbreviations: 1997 Terrorist Bombing Convention ​Date & Place of Adoption: 15 December 1997, New York, USA
> Date of Entry into Force: 23 May 2001 (Article 22)
> 
> It is not Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign as you claim.  It is what it is.  The law was not written by Israel, but internationally.  It was be an untruth to say that HoAP does not (or has not) a past history of criminal behaviors described in the Terrorist Bombing Convention.  Whether we talk about the grenade attack near Rachel's Tomb, the nursery school struck by HAMAS rocket, the over 4000 rocket attacks from Gaza, the kidnapping and murders, the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, the Avivim school bus massacre, the public bus planted by Palestinian militants exploded in a bus near Tel Aviv, --- all of these describe the actions prohibited by International Conventions relative to counter-terrorism.
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned the Customary and International Humanitarian Law violations, or the Palestinians that have attempted to pervert the course of justice, or inciting violence and supporting terrorism.
> “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
> 
> BUT, please --- don't pretend that the Arab Palestinians have clean hands.  In fact, the Palestinians haven't had clean hands since the time Haj Amin al Husseini  was the Mufti of Jerusalem; inciting hatred and violence at every opportunity.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Textbook Withdrawn after Referencing Palestinian Resistance as ‘Terrorists’ *
> 
> The International School of Choueifat (ISC) in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan have been forced to withdraw textbooks which describe the Palestinian resistance as ‘terrorists’, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported yesterday.
> 
> The school confirmed to Doha News that the book was a Grade 9 history text entitled Technology, War and Independence, by Oxford University Press.
> 
> All copies of the book were removed and students were reimbursed for costs incurred, the ministry said, adding that the school was warned to seek approval before using any book.
> 
> http://www.palestinechronicle.com/textbook-withdrawn-referencing-palestinian-resistance-terrorists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND!!!!!!!    all this shows is that the muslims wont face up to the truth about themselves, and how the rest of the world views them.    You are as blind and as stupid as they are when you deny their actions are terrorism and illegal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign, I see.
Click to expand...








 WHAT ISRAELI TERRORIST PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN IS THAT THEN, HOW ABOUT A LINK TO SHOW IT ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rania Khalek*
> 
> **








Just more islamonazi talking points, LIES and propaganda


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Abir Kopty*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So then, why are women the staunchest supporters of Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Yafa Jarrar*

**


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Abir Kopty*
> 
> **









 I see and hear a lot about Israeli apartheid but I never see or hear ant evidence of this apartheid. All you have is islamonazi propaganda as shown by this video from BDS spreading blood libels and outright lies


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>










 And how is it Israel's fault that the arab muslims lost the war they started in 1947.   If you start a war you need to be sure that you will win at the end of hostilities


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>











 Just your usual islamonazi propaganda that has no basis in reality


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?









Then they wonder why they are hated so much and so many get killed in the reprisals. The world would be a much better and safer place if the muslims were to die out from a disease that only hit those with arab muslim blood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the war against Islamic terrorism will end when Islamic terrorists are no longer a threat.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Islamic terrorist knock, knock day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the war against Islamic terrorism will end when Islamic terrorists are no longer a threat.
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - Men in ski masks, women in their Shame Sacks


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the war against Islamic terrorism will end when Islamic terrorists are no longer a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?
Click to expand...


You spam the board with the above often enough.

_Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit? _™


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
Click to expand...







What war is that as Israel has never started a war in the last 68 years, the arab muslims declared war on the Jews in 1947 and only 2 islamic nations have rescinded the declaration.



 So who needs to end the war again ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies *
> 
> **









 A pity there are so few arab muslims willing to live in peace


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the war against Islamic terrorism will end when Islamic terrorists are no longer a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?
Click to expand...








Are you still spamming the board with your islamonazi propaganda and LIES


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Daoud Nassar*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the war against Islamic terrorism will end when Islamic terrorists are no longer a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spam the board with the above often enough.
> 
> _Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit? _™
Click to expand...

This reminds me of something that makes me laugh. In 2006 Netenyahu was touring the right wingnut radio circuit in the US selling Israel's war against Lebanon. He was on Bill Bennett's show and in an 8 minute segment he played the terrorist card 17 times. This was radio but I could picture Bennett nodding like a bobble head doll.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, he doesn't have to play the "Terrorist Card."   Even a elementary school child can tell the difference between an ordinary criminal, and an entire culture with a past history of crimal behaviors.



P F Tinmore said:


> This reminds me of something that makes me laugh. In 2006 Netenyahu was touring the right wingnut radio circuit in the US selling Israel's war against Lebanon. He was on Bill Bennett's show and in an 8 minute segment he played the terrorist card 17 times. This was radio but I could picture Bennett nodding like a bobble head doll.


*(COMMENT)*

In 1997, the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings was *Signed:* 15 December 1997, New York, and *Entered into force:* 23 May 2001.  It is not the only Treaty Convention on the Issue of Terrorism, but is a very relevant example of how a terrorist might be described:

*ARTICLE 2 *
1. Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: 
a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or 

b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss. 
​Similarly, in the *International Convention Against the Taking of Hostages, Adopted:* 17 December 1979, New York, *Entered into force:* 3 June 1983.  It describes a terrorist kidnapper as:

*ARTICLE 1*
1.        Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure or to continue to detain another person (hereinafter referred to as the "hostage") in order to compel a third party, namely, a State, an international intergovernmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage commits the offence of taking of hostages ("hostage-taking") within the meaning of this Convention.

2.        Any person who:
a.        attempts to commit an act of hostage-taking, or

b.        participates as an accomplice of anyone who commits or attempts to commit an act of hostage-taking likewise commits an offence for the purposes of this Convention.
​Now, in both descriptive cases, supra, This fits any number of incidents and events perpetrated by Arab Palestinian Terrorist going back to the Munich Massacre. The Reasonable Man Hypothesis suggests that there are literally hundreds of  events that fall in these categories, and that is only 2 out of 16 Conventions that have been put into force.  And we have not even touched the 161 Rules under Costmary International Humanitarian Law; such as the Rule that protects the intentional attacks against civilians not taking a direct part in hostilities.  This is not dissimilar to:

Palestinians Celebrate the Murder of Two Israelis in a Jerusalem Attack
Sunday’s shooting began at approximately 10:30 a.m., when the terrorist, who was driving a white vehicle, opened fire on a male and female civilian near the Ammunition Hill light rail stop, across the street from Police Headquarters.

“The terrorist opened fire on two people, and one woman in her 60s was wounded critically, and a man was moderately-to-seriously wounded,” said Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.
​One has to ask, are the people who celebrate martyrdom are acting in the furthering the general criminal activity, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offense or offenses concerned. 

The Poisoning Of A People - Palestinians Celebrate The Murder Of Jews
Originally published at Gatestone Institute - 
Abu Sbeih is now the latest "hero" of many Palestinians, and not only by his family. He is being hailed as a "brave" man and a "hero" because he woke up in the morning, grabbed an M-16 assault rifle and set out to kill as many Jews as possible. His mission was "successful": he managed to shoot and kill two Jews before he himself was eliminated by policemen.
Read more at The Poisoning Of A People - Palestinians Celebrate The Murder Of Jews​Under the Reasonable Man concept, I would recommend that you give the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin a little room to that thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, he doesn't have to play the "Terrorist Card."   Even a elementary school child can tell the difference between an ordinary criminal, and an entire culture with a past history of crimal behaviors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This reminds me of something that makes me laugh. In 2006 Netenyahu was touring the right wingnut radio circuit in the US selling Israel's war against Lebanon. He was on Bill Bennett's show and in an 8 minute segment he played the terrorist card 17 times. This was radio but I could picture Bennett nodding like a bobble head doll.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1997, the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings was *Signed:* 15 December 1997, New York, and *Entered into force:* 23 May 2001.  It is not the only Treaty Convention on the Issue of Terrorism, but is a very relevant example of how a terrorist might be described:
> 
> *ARTICLE 2 *
> 1. Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.
> ​Similarly, in the *International Convention Against the Taking of Hostages, Adopted:* 17 December 1979, New York, *Entered into force:* 3 June 1983.  It describes a terrorist kidnapper as:
> 
> *ARTICLE 1*
> 1.        Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure or to continue to detain another person (hereinafter referred to as the "hostage") in order to compel a third party, namely, a State, an international intergovernmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage commits the offence of taking of hostages ("hostage-taking") within the meaning of this Convention.
> 
> 2.        Any person who:
> a.        attempts to commit an act of hostage-taking, or
> 
> b.        participates as an accomplice of anyone who commits or attempts to commit an act of hostage-taking likewise commits an offence for the purposes of this Convention.
> ​Now, in both descriptive cases, supra, This fits any number of incidents and events perpetrated by Arab Palestinian Terrorist going back to the Munich Massacre. The Reasonable Man Hypothesis suggests that there are literally hundreds of  events that fall in these categories, and that is only 2 out of 16 Conventions that have been put into force.  And we have not even touched the 161 Rules under Costmary International Humanitarian Law; such as the Rule that protects the intentional attacks against civilians not taking a direct part in hostilities.  This is not dissimilar to:
> 
> Palestinians Celebrate the Murder of Two Israelis in a Jerusalem Attack
> Sunday’s shooting began at approximately 10:30 a.m., when the terrorist, who was driving a white vehicle, opened fire on a male and female civilian near the Ammunition Hill light rail stop, across the street from Police Headquarters.
> 
> “The terrorist opened fire on two people, and one woman in her 60s was wounded critically, and a man was moderately-to-seriously wounded,” said Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.
> ​One has to ask, are the people who celebrate martyrdom are acting in the furthering the general criminal activity, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offense or offenses concerned.
> 
> The Poisoning Of A People - Palestinians Celebrate The Murder Of Jews
> Originally published at Gatestone Institute -
> Abu Sbeih is now the latest "hero" of many Palestinians, and not only by his family. He is being hailed as a "brave" man and a "hero" because he woke up in the morning, grabbed an M-16 assault rifle and set out to kill as many Jews as possible. His mission was "successful": he managed to shoot and kill two Jews before he himself was eliminated by policemen.
> Read more at The Poisoning Of A People - Palestinians Celebrate The Murder Of Jews​Under the Reasonable Man concept, I would recommend that you give the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin a little room to that thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Even a elementary school child can tell the difference between an ordinary criminal, and an entire culture with a past history of crimal behaviors.​
Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.

I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.



P F Tinmore said:


> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.


*(COMMENT)*

And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.

Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:

"Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.

The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.

Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.

*(QUESTION)*

Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?

Most Respectfully,
R[]


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.
> 
> I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.
> 
> Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:
> 
> "Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.
> 
> The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.
> 
> Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R[]
Click to expand...

OK, I understand. It is your usual slime the Palestinians post.

And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.​
This is a true story. I called the State Department to ask why they were not negotiating with the elected government in Palestine. He said "Hold on let me get that." I was on hold for 15 - 20 minutes. He comes back on and says. "Can I call you back. We can't find Palestine." Since he said "We" I assumed that he was not the only one looking.

They designate virtually every political party in Palestine terrorists yet they can't find it.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies*




The irony being that this is a family of foreign invaders.  Yep.  Didn't come from Palestine.  Came from a foreign land to settle there.  So this family is no more or no less a "settler" than his neighbors from Gush Etzion.  I guess the whole family should return where they came from, huh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.
> 
> I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.
> 
> Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:
> 
> "Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.
> 
> The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.
> 
> Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R[]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I understand. It is your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.​
> This is a true story. I called the State Department to ask why they were not negotiating with the elected government in Palestine. He said "Hold on let me get that." I was on hold for 15 - 20 minutes. He comes back on and says. "Can I call you back. We can't find Palestine." Since he said "We" I assumed that he was not the only one looking.
> 
> They designate virtually every political party in Palestine terrorists yet they can't find it.
Click to expand...

Could it be in the scenario you claim to have occurred that the individual you claim you spoke with has been yanked around by clowns, my words, who waste his time with such silliness?

BTW, where is this place you call Pal'istan and what "government" represents the Arabs-Moslems who can't quite seem to decide which competing version of Islamist totalitarianism will enhance their retrogression, failures and ineptitudes?


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony being that this is a family of foreign invaders.  Yep.  Didn't come from Palestine.  Came from a foreign land to settle there.  So this family is no more or no less a "settler" than his neighbors from Gush Etzion.  I guess the whole family should return where they came from, huh?
Click to expand...


I retract that.  These foreign invader "settlers" are far more so than the Jewish returnees are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony being that this is a family of foreign invaders.  Yep.  Didn't come from Palestine.  Came from a foreign land to settle there.  So this family is no more or no less a "settler" than his neighbors from Gush Etzion.  I guess the whole family should return where they came from, huh?
Click to expand...

So, where did he come from?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony being that this is a family of foreign invaders.  Yep.  Didn't come from Palestine.  Came from a foreign land to settle there.  So this family is no more or no less a "settler" than his neighbors from Gush Etzion.  I guess the whole family should return where they came from, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, where did he come from?
Click to expand...


What difference would that make?  It was not from Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the war against Islamic terrorism will end when Islamic terrorists are no longer a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spam the board with the above often enough.
> 
> _Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit? _™
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This reminds me of something that makes me laugh. In 2006 Netenyahu was touring the right wingnut radio circuit in the US selling Israel's war against Lebanon. He was on Bill Bennett's show and in an 8 minute segment he played the terrorist card 17 times. This was radio but I could picture Bennett nodding like a bobble head doll.
Click to expand...






 How did he play the terrorist card if most nations declare the palestinians to be terrorists, including Egypt, Jordan, Saudi and UAE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tent of Nations: we refuse to be enemies*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony being that this is a family of foreign invaders.  Yep.  Didn't come from Palestine.  Came from a foreign land to settle there.  So this family is no more or no less a "settler" than his neighbors from Gush Etzion.  I guess the whole family should return where they came from, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, where did he come from?
Click to expand...






 He is what you despise a foriegn colonist that wants to cleanse the land of its rightful owners,   MAKING YOU A TWO FACED HYPOCRITE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, he doesn't have to play the "Terrorist Card."   Even a elementary school child can tell the difference between an ordinary criminal, and an entire culture with a past history of crimal behaviors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This reminds me of something that makes me laugh. In 2006 Netenyahu was touring the right wingnut radio circuit in the US selling Israel's war against Lebanon. He was on Bill Bennett's show and in an 8 minute segment he played the terrorist card 17 times. This was radio but I could picture Bennett nodding like a bobble head doll.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1997, the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings was *Signed:* 15 December 1997, New York, and *Entered into force:* 23 May 2001.  It is not the only Treaty Convention on the Issue of Terrorism, but is a very relevant example of how a terrorist might be described:
> 
> *ARTICLE 2 *
> 1. Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.
> ​Similarly, in the *International Convention Against the Taking of Hostages, Adopted:* 17 December 1979, New York, *Entered into force:* 3 June 1983.  It describes a terrorist kidnapper as:
> 
> *ARTICLE 1*
> 1.        Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure or to continue to detain another person (hereinafter referred to as the "hostage") in order to compel a third party, namely, a State, an international intergovernmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage commits the offence of taking of hostages ("hostage-taking") within the meaning of this Convention.
> 
> 2.        Any person who:
> a.        attempts to commit an act of hostage-taking, or
> 
> b.        participates as an accomplice of anyone who commits or attempts to commit an act of hostage-taking likewise commits an offence for the purposes of this Convention.
> ​Now, in both descriptive cases, supra, This fits any number of incidents and events perpetrated by Arab Palestinian Terrorist going back to the Munich Massacre. The Reasonable Man Hypothesis suggests that there are literally hundreds of  events that fall in these categories, and that is only 2 out of 16 Conventions that have been put into force.  And we have not even touched the 161 Rules under Costmary International Humanitarian Law; such as the Rule that protects the intentional attacks against civilians not taking a direct part in hostilities.  This is not dissimilar to:
> 
> Palestinians Celebrate the Murder of Two Israelis in a Jerusalem Attack
> Sunday’s shooting began at approximately 10:30 a.m., when the terrorist, who was driving a white vehicle, opened fire on a male and female civilian near the Ammunition Hill light rail stop, across the street from Police Headquarters.
> 
> “The terrorist opened fire on two people, and one woman in her 60s was wounded critically, and a man was moderately-to-seriously wounded,” said Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.
> ​One has to ask, are the people who celebrate martyrdom are acting in the furthering the general criminal activity, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offense or offenses concerned.
> 
> The Poisoning Of A People - Palestinians Celebrate The Murder Of Jews
> Originally published at Gatestone Institute -
> Abu Sbeih is now the latest "hero" of many Palestinians, and not only by his family. He is being hailed as a "brave" man and a "hero" because he woke up in the morning, grabbed an M-16 assault rifle and set out to kill as many Jews as possible. His mission was "successful": he managed to shoot and kill two Jews before he himself was eliminated by policemen.
> Read more at The Poisoning Of A People - Palestinians Celebrate The Murder Of Jews​Under the Reasonable Man concept, I would recommend that you give the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin a little room to that thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even a elementary school child can tell the difference between an ordinary criminal, and an entire culture with a past history of crimal behaviors.​
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
Click to expand...







 Why should it if they have not committed any crimes ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.
> 
> I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.
> 
> Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:
> 
> "Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.
> 
> The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.
> 
> Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R[]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I understand. It is your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.​
> This is a true story. I called the State Department to ask why they were not negotiating with the elected government in Palestine. He said "Hold on let me get that." I was on hold for 15 - 20 minutes. He comes back on and says. "Can I call you back. We can't find Palestine." Since he said "We" I assumed that he was not the only one looking.
> 
> They designate virtually every political party in Palestine terrorists yet they can't find it.
Click to expand...









 Get it right the post is 100% factual and based on reality, so cant be a "slime the palestinians" work. This is your only answer whenever you are faced with truth that you cant defend or prove wrong. You are making yourself a complete laughing stock


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.
> 
> I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.
> 
> Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:
> 
> "Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.
> 
> The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.
> 
> Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R[]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I understand. It is your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.​
> This is a true story. I called the State Department to ask why they were not negotiating with the elected government in Palestine. He said "Hold on let me get that." I was on hold for 15 - 20 minutes. He comes back on and says. "Can I call you back. We can't find Palestine." Since he said "We" I assumed that he was not the only one looking.
> 
> They designate virtually every political party in Palestine terrorists yet they can't find it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get it right the post is 100% factual and based on reality, so cant be a "slime the palestinians" work. This is your only answer whenever you are faced with truth that you cant defend or prove wrong. You are making yourself a complete laughing stock
Click to expand...

I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.

And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.
> 
> I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.
> 
> Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:
> 
> "Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.
> 
> The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.
> 
> Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R[]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I understand. It is your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.​
> This is a true story. I called the State Department to ask why they were not negotiating with the elected government in Palestine. He said "Hold on let me get that." I was on hold for 15 - 20 minutes. He comes back on and says. "Can I call you back. We can't find Palestine." Since he said "We" I assumed that he was not the only one looking.
> 
> They designate virtually every political party in Palestine terrorists yet they can't find it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get it right the post is 100% factual and based on reality, so cant be a "slime the palestinians" work. This is your only answer whenever you are faced with truth that you cant defend or prove wrong. You are making yourself a complete laughing stock
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
Click to expand...


"All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression."


Funny stuff. 

Yet another variation on the theme, _I blame the Jews_™

The flaw with such childish nonsense is that the Hamas Charter is very specific about destroying Israel, (Jews),  and seizing the land as an entitlement to Islamism per the concept of _waqf_.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or  

*Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in 
Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.​*
*Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014

*Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
Published September 12, 2014
The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.




P F Tinmore said:


> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.


On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, don't get me wrong here.  I am not trying to defend the US Department of State (DoS) or any of the senior diplomatics and foreign service officers.  I have met some smart younger FSO's and I have met some very incapable career diplomats.  But I have to put my criticisms in check.  Remember, the White House and Presidential Advisors and other appointments have a very strong influence over the character and nature of the work force.
> 
> I will accept your assessment of "clowns" in the DoS.  But I suspect that you and I might come to that conclusion for entirely different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently the clowns in our state Department can't. They don't have Israel on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.
> 
> Arab Palestinians are (for the most part) very much like those that promoted Geocentric (Ptolemaic) ideas, so to do the Arab Palestinians believe that most everything in the Middle East revolves around them.  They believe, much like the 17th Century _Roman Catholic Church,_ that they exhibit no characteristics of a terrorist.  But that anyone who opposes their acts of aggression, are terrorist.  And very much like the Pope Urban VIII, who had Galileo's offense works to be banned, collected and burned, the Arab Palestinian have, from time - to - time, rejected UNRWA textbooks and banned them from use.  The books did not present the History according to the Arab-Palestinian.  The Inquisition of Galileo over the publication of his Copernican views, nearly cost him his life; having to recant the view before the Religious Court.  Again, the UNRWA had to pull the textbooks so that the Arab Palestinian students would not be exposed a less confrontational view; promoting peacefully negotiations over the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> Even the Arab Palestinians themselves do not argue that they promote Jihad and Armed Struggle.  That the objective of this Jihad and Armed Struggle is to (as *Khalid Mishaal*) put it:
> 
> "Agreeing to a state on the 1967 borders: Some worry that this is following in the footsteps of those before us, and eventually the big dream will shrink. To this we say no, we are not necessarily convinced that the liberation of the occupied territory of 1967 is a practical goal. Personally, I believe, in terms of the practical objective aspect, that anyone who can liberate the territories occupied in 1967, is able to liberate the rest of Palestine. Furthermore, there is a need to unify the Palestinian as well as the Arab stance on a common denominator upon which all parties agree, regardless of how that program may vary from one party to another."​Now this is not a new statement.  It has been around since before Israel exercised self-determination and successfully defended itself against the act of aggression by coalition of Arab League State; not once, not twice, but three times.
> 
> The reason why Israel is reluctant to withdraw from the West Bank, is because it will begin to take the shape of Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians will not be just satisfied by with the sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967.  They want the whole enchilada.
> 
> Much like GEN Patton, the Israelis do not want to have to pay (blood and treasure) more than once for the same real estate.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you argue that the actions over the last 70 years meet the criteria of the Counter Terrorism Treaties?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R[]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I understand. It is your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> And just like the many clowns (your words not mine), you have skipped over the reasoning that came before the quote.​
> This is a true story. I called the State Department to ask why they were not negotiating with the elected government in Palestine. He said "Hold on let me get that." I was on hold for 15 - 20 minutes. He comes back on and says. "Can I call you back. We can't find Palestine." Since he said "We" I assumed that he was not the only one looking.
> 
> They designate virtually every political party in Palestine terrorists yet they can't find it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get it right the post is 100% factual and based on reality, so cant be a "slime the palestinians" work. This is your only answer whenever you are faced with truth that you cant defend or prove wrong. You are making yourself a complete laughing stock
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
Click to expand...







You mean the 9/10ths that take place in your fantasy world, Who was it that invaded and tried to wipe out the Jews in 1947 ?

Where was Israel in 635 C.E. when islamic arabs first became aggressive and wiped out the Jews in Medina and Mecca. Where was Israel in 1921 when the  mufti commanded his arab muslims to attack the Jews. Where was Israel in 1929 when the mufti lied and told the arab muslims to wipe out the Jews. Where was Israel in 1933 when the mufti met with Hitler and asked him to wipe out the Jews rather than send them to palestine.

SO WHO WAS THE ORIGINAL AGGRESSOR AGAIN, AS MANY ATROCITIES WERE CARRIED OUT AGAINST THE JEWS BEFORE ISRAEL WAS CREATED IN 1948


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or
> 
> *Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
> The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in
> Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.*​
> *Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
> Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
> BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014
> 
> *Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
> Published September 12, 2014
> The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
> At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or
> 
> *Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
> The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in
> Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.*​
> *Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
> Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
> BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014
> 
> *Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
> Published September 12, 2014
> The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
> At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
Click to expand...


A YouTube video from presstv can't be far behind.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or
> 
> *Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
> The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in
> Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.*​
> *Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
> Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
> BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014
> 
> *Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
> Published September 12, 2014
> The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
> At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A YouTube video from presstv can't be far behind.
Click to expand...

Rocco made a claim and he should prove his point.

Of course he won't.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or
> 
> *Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
> The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in
> Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.*​
> *Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
> Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
> BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014
> 
> *Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
> Published September 12, 2014
> The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
> At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A YouTube video from presstv can't be far behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rocco made a claim and he should prove his point.
> 
> Of course he won't.
Click to expand...


OK. So what does pressTV have to say on the matter.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, I take a step back.  Not because you are correct; but, because that is all you challenged.

Source: Department of state: Milestones
*The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.​*INTERVENTION OF THE ARAB STATES IN PALESTINE.*  Page #416 Chapter from UN Yearbook
On April 30 the Palestine Truce Commission informed the Security Council by cablegram (S/- 732) that the situation in Palestine was deteriorating rapidly, that government departments were closing daily and normal activities coming to a standstill and that the intensity of fighting was increasing steadily. By a telegram addressed to the President of the Security Council dated May 1, 1948 (S/730), the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the invasion of Palestine by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was en route towards Palestine.

The Secretary-General of the Arab League, in a cablegram dated May 15 (S/745), set forth at length the reasons which had prompted the Arab States to intervene in Palestine and expressed confidence that their action would receive the support of the United Nations.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Relative to your challenge, I am fully aware, as I am sure that most of the members know, there are two key perspective from the Arab Palestinians side that should be mention.  And it is as valid today, as it was 70 years ago:
•  *Arab-Israeli War *
Although Israel's independence on May 14, 1948, triggered the first full-scale war, armed conflicts between Jews and Arabs had been frequent since Great Britain received the League of Nations mandate for 
Palestine in 1920. From 1945 to 1948 Zionists waged guerrilla war against British troops and against Palestinian Arabs supported by the Arab League, and they had made substantial gains by 1948. The 1948–49 War reflected the opposition of the Arab states to the formation of the Jewish state of Israel in what they considered to be Arab territory.

As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce. This was followed in July by significant Israeli advances before another truce. Fighting erupted again in August and continued sporadically until the end of 1948. An Israeli advance in Jan., 1949, isolated Egyptian forces and led to a cease-fire (Jan. 7, 1949).

Protracted peace talks resulted in armistice agreements between Israel and Egypt, Syria, and Jordan by July, but no formal peace. In addition, about 400,000 Palestinian Arabs had fled from Israel and were settled in refugee camps near Israel's border; their status became a volatile factor in Arab-Israeli relations.

NOTE:  I cut-n-pasted directly from "infoplease" because it had thumbnail Arab-Palestinian view point, less the political rhetoric.​•  The *Secretary-General of the Arab League*, in a cablegram dated May 15 (S/745), set forth at length the reasons which had prompted the Arab States to intervene in Palestine and expressed confidence that their action would receive the support of the United Nations.

By a telegram of May 15 (S/743) the Government of Egypt informed the Security Council that Egyptian armed forces had started to enter Palestine "to establish security and order in place of chaos and disorder which prevailed and which rendered the country at the mercy of the Zionist terrorist gangs who persisted in attacking peaceful Arab inhabitants".

By a telegram dated May 16 (S/748) the King of Transjordan likewise informed the United Nations that Transjordanian forces had been "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres".​
The reality of this observation is, no matter what the answer might be is that it is better to contain an  infectious element of the Arab Culture, then to allow it to escape because a few blind humanitarians want to see this very dangerous subculture unrestrained.

By releasing the Hostile Arab Palestinian and withdrawing back to the current security barriers, this would endanger (not only) the various factions in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, but also Jordan and Egypt.  Syria is already burning; a shell of what it once was.  But in terms of Jordan, it puts the Radical parent of the very same source of armed Palestinian _Fedayeen _groups of the _(what the Kingdom calls "Palestinians guerrillas")_ The Conflict of 1970 which endangered the Royal Family and King on one-side of Jordan, and DAESH on the other frontier.




The Islamic Liberation Party _(with the same basic goals as the DAE Caliphate)_ is still around, but is currently heavily committed to DAESH objectives.  These organizations really never die completely; although they do go into remission every now and then.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Exactly what challenge did you make that I did not answer?



P F Tinmore said:


> Rocco made a claim and he should prove his point.
> Of course he won't.


*(COMMENT)*

Be specific and clear.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

In 1948, the Arab armies intervened in an attempt to prevent the Zionist invaders (mostly from Europe) from ethnically cleansing the native Muslim and Christians from a large part of Palestine after the Zionists declared a Jewish state on land inhabited by native Muslim and Christians. Let's get things straight.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I take a step back.  Not because you are correct; but, because that is all you challenged.
> 
> Source: Department of state: Milestones
> *The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.​*INTERVENTION OF THE ARAB STATES IN PALESTINE.*  Page #416 Chapter from UN Yearbook
> On April 30 the Palestine Truce Commission informed the Security Council by cablegram (S/- 732) that the situation in Palestine was deteriorating rapidly, that government departments were closing daily and normal activities coming to a standstill and that the intensity of fighting was increasing steadily. By a telegram addressed to the President of the Security Council dated May 1, 1948 (S/730), the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the invasion of Palestine by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was en route towards Palestine.
> 
> The Secretary-General of the Arab League, in a cablegram dated May 15 (S/745), set forth at length the reasons which had prompted the Arab States to intervene in Palestine and expressed confidence that their action would receive the support of the United Nations.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to your challenge, I am fully aware, as I am sure that most of the members know, there are two key perspective from the Arab Palestinians side that should be mention.  And it is as valid today, as it was 70 years ago:
> •  *Arab-Israeli War *
> Although Israel's independence on May 14, 1948, triggered the first full-scale war, armed conflicts between Jews and Arabs had been frequent since Great Britain received the League of Nations mandate for
> Palestine in 1920. From 1945 to 1948 Zionists waged guerrilla war against British troops and against Palestinian Arabs supported by the Arab League, and they had made substantial gains by 1948. The 1948–49 War reflected the opposition of the Arab states to the formation of the Jewish state of Israel in what they considered to be Arab territory.
> 
> As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce. This was followed in July by significant Israeli advances before another truce. Fighting erupted again in August and continued sporadically until the end of 1948. An Israeli advance in Jan., 1949, isolated Egyptian forces and led to a cease-fire (Jan. 7, 1949).
> 
> Protracted peace talks resulted in armistice agreements between Israel and Egypt, Syria, and Jordan by July, but no formal peace. In addition, about 400,000 Palestinian Arabs had fled from Israel and were settled in refugee camps near Israel's border; their status became a volatile factor in Arab-Israeli relations.
> 
> NOTE:  I cut-n-pasted directly from "infoplease" because it had thumbnail Arab-Palestinian view point, less the political rhetoric.​•  The *Secretary-General of the Arab League*, in a cablegram dated May 15 (S/745), set forth at length the reasons which had prompted the Arab States to intervene in Palestine and expressed confidence that their action would receive the support of the United Nations.
> 
> By a telegram of May 15 (S/743) the Government of Egypt informed the Security Council that Egyptian armed forces had started to enter Palestine "to establish security and order in place of chaos and disorder which prevailed and which rendered the country at the mercy of the Zionist terrorist gangs who persisted in attacking peaceful Arab inhabitants".
> 
> By a telegram dated May 16 (S/748) the King of Transjordan likewise informed the United Nations that Transjordanian forces had been "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres".​
> The reality of this observation is, no matter what the answer might be is that it is better to contain an  infectious element of the Arab Culture, then to allow it to escape because a few blind humanitarians want to see this very dangerous subculture unrestrained.
> 
> By releasing the Hostile Arab Palestinian and withdrawing back to the current security barriers, this would endanger (not only) the various factions in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, but also Jordan and Egypt.  Syria is already burning; a shell of what it once was.  But in terms of Jordan, it puts the Radical parent of the very same source of armed Palestinian _Fedayeen _groups of the _(what the Kingdom calls "Palestinians guerrillas")_ The Conflict of 1970 which endangered the Royal Family and King on one-side of Jordan, and DAESH on the other frontier.
> View attachment 94589​
> The Islamic Liberation Party _(with the same basic goals as the DAE Caliphate)_ is still around, but is currently heavily committed to DAESH objectives.  These organizations really never die completely; although they do go into remission every now and then.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You said:

Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.

the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​

Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.

That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **


Who are the Palestinians?  Invented people, of course.

Think-Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  Invented people, of course.
> 
> Think-Israel
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  Invented people, of course.
> 
> Think-Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Tinmore, you know as well as anyone else that the idea of Palestine as a country and a group of various Arabs from different countries who would call themselves "Palestinians" was created by the KGB in Moscow in 1964. Why don't you cease bullshitting yourself and everybody else and step into 2016?

.
The "peace process" is a charade. The revelations of the highest ranking Soviet bloc defector, Major General Ion Mihai Pacepa, show that the peace process is, and has from the outset, been nothing but a charade.

It all started with the creation of a fictitious "Palestinian People" who allegedly demand political self determination. This collective noun was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the Palestinian Liberation Organization, the "PLO". The term "Palestinian People" as a descriptive of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB.

Why in Moscow? The 1960s and 1970s were the years the Soviets were in the business of creating "liberation organizations": for Palestine and Bolivia in 1964, Columbia 1965, in the 70s "The Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia" that bombed US airline offices in Europe, and "The Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine that bombed Israelis." But the PLO, was by far its most enduring success.

Think-Israel


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Daoud Nassar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  Invented people, of course.
> 
> Think-Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Interesting.  So if you and your family have lived in "Palestine" for 100 years or so then you become "native from time immemorial".  I guess that makes both the Nassar family and the Jews of Gush Etzion "native from time immemorial".  

Does that mean they both get to stay?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, I cannot argue with a Arab Palestinian that denies the reality of what happened.



P F Tinmore said:


> You said:
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.
> 
> the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​
> Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.
> 
> That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.


*(COMMENT)*

1)  In this case, "Palestine" was the meaning originally assigned by the Palestine Order in Council.

2)  On May 1, when it was still Mandate Territory, and the constituents of the Jewish Community were still citizens of the Palestine Government under the Mandate,  Syria,  Lebanon, and Egyptian forces were already crossing the frontier (invasion) into the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.  

Remember the Jewish were also citizens of the Government of Palestine, in the very same way and under the very same authority as the Arab Palestinian _(setup by the Mandate and authorized by the Palestinian Citizenship order)_.  I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."  Your claim that the Zionist were attacking Palestine is a neat trick, and a good peace of propaganda and spin.  They can twist the reality any way they want, and shout their perspective as loud as they want.  But the reality is unchanged.  Arab League forces were infiltrating into Palestine _(the Territory under Mandate)_ as early as 1 May.  That makes the Arab League Armies the aggressor; no matter how you spin it.

3)  The claim that the Arab League was trying to prevent this or that, is irrelevant.  They crossed their respective frontiers for their own benefit and aggrandizement.  No matter what political smoke screen the Arab League sets in place as their "just cause," a prerequisite _jus ad bellum_, 
​

The serious implication is that any hostile engagement requires a "just cause" at the outset; but the continuation of hostilities lacks the justification and is therefore impermissible. Just cause thus determines the conditions for the termination of war.  The legal ethic behind the continuation of hostilities, based on the Arab League claim that they wanted to prevent the Jewish from exacting some evil has past.  It has long since dissipated with there "just cause" _(as the King of Jordan put it:   "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres")_.  The 1949 "just cause" ("_protect unarmed Arabs against massacres"_ )  has long since past and continuation of the conflict by (what is today) the Arab Palestinian is just another excuse to continue the war; absent any good faith effect to settle the dispute by peaceful means according to the Charter.

In 1949 Egypt got what it wanted, Jordan got what it wanted, and both Lebanon and Syria disingaged to prevent further losses.  And the perpetuation of the conflict by the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians gradually brought the current political conditions, security enhancements and counter-terrorism expansions, and the adjustment of territorial lines, continues to be based on the every growing and continuation of Arab Palestinian hostilities.

You call it a "*Big Fat lie*."  I like to think of it as reality, outside the childish mental health of the Arab Palestinian that prefers conflict to peace.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or
> 
> *Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
> The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in
> Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.*​
> *Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
> Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
> BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014
> 
> *Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
> Published September 12, 2014
> The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
> At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
Click to expand...









 Are you deny history again, and re-writting it to meet with your personal POV.   The arab league invaded the mandate of palestine with the remit to wipe out the Jews and take the land for the waqf. A pity they lost so badly that it became a stain on their ability to wage war and fight with honour.


No propaganda at all but historical reality and truth


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I try to not get entangled by your gross and blanket accusations.  I try to be specific, you just exaggerate or obfuscate your counter response:  (1/10th v 9/10th).  I generally say _*(as an example)*_, the Palestinians fired over 4000 rockets at Israel in the between January and August. Each Launch was a violation.   You claim I've maligned or
> 
> *Rule 11. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.
> The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in
> Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I, to Fourth Geneva Convention.*​
> *Hamas admits to rocket fire from residential areas*
> Terror group says ‘mistakes’ occurred, accuses Israel of ‘disproportionate response’; IDF: ‘Hamas’s excuses are outrageous, misleading and contrary to the evidence’
> BY HAMZA HENDAWI AND JOSEF FEDERMAN September 12, 2014
> 
> *Evidence growing that Hamas used residential areas as cover for firing rockets at Israel*
> Published September 12, 2014
> The Israeli army says Hamas fired almost 4,000 rockets at Israel, including 600 from close to schools, mosques and other civilian facilities, and scores of mortar shells. Israel carried out some 5,000 airstrikes, in addition to using powerful artillery and gunship fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say that because his  posts are half truths, or 1/10 truths. He constantly blabs about 1/10 of the crimes committed by the Palestinians but never mentions the 9/10 of the crimes committed by Israel.
> 
> And besides that Israel is the original aggressor. All of the Palestinian's crimes are responses to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.  It was they that crossed the threshold of the frontiers establishing their internationally recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> On the 14th May, at six o'clock exactly, according to Washington time, the end of the British Mandate over Palestine was declared. At one minute past six, the establishment of the State of Israel was declared. At eleven minutes past six, the USA recognized the State of Israel.  On 15 May 1948, Arab League Forces began their incursion.​
> At no time did the newly established Jewish State of Israel take an aggressive action over the threshold of the frontier.  The original aggressors (multiple) were Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> No it wasn't. You are just pimping Israeli propaganda again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A YouTube video from presstv can't be far behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rocco made a claim and he should prove his point.
> 
> Of course he won't.
Click to expand...





So when will you prove your many claims then, we have asked for links to verify your LIES and all you have is the same islamonazi moron that alters the wording of treaties to meet with his view


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I cannot argue with a Arab Palestinian that denies the reality of what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.
> 
> the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​
> Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.
> 
> That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1)  In this case, "Palestine" was the meaning originally assigned by the Palestine Order in Council.
> 
> 2)  On May 1, when it was still Mandate Territory, and the constituents of the Jewish Community were still citizens of the Palestine Government under the Mandate,  Syria,  Lebanon, and Egyptian forces were already crossing the frontier (invasion) into the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Remember the Jewish were also citizens of the Government of Palestine, in the very same way and under the very same authority as the Arab Palestinian _(setup by the Mandate and authorized by the Palestinian Citizenship order)_.  I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."  Your claim that the Zionist were attacking Palestine is a neat trick, and a good peace of propaganda and spin.  They can twist the reality any way they want, and shout their perspective as loud as they want.  But the reality is unchanged.  Arab League forces were infiltrating into Palestine _(the Territory under Mandate)_ as early as 1 May.  That makes the Arab League Armies the aggressor; no matter how you spin it.
> 
> 3)  The claim that the Arab League was trying to prevent this or that, is irrelevant.  They crossed their respective frontiers for their own benefit and aggrandizement.  No matter what political smoke screen the Arab League sets in place as their "just cause," a prerequisite _jus ad bellum_,
> ​
> 
> The serious implication is that any hostile engagement requires a "just cause" at the outset; but the continuation of hostilities lacks the justification and is therefore impermissible. Just cause thus determines the conditions for the termination of war.  The legal ethic behind the continuation of hostilities, based on the Arab League claim that they wanted to prevent the Jewish from exacting some evil has past.  It has long since dissipated with there "just cause" _(as the King of Jordan put it:   "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres")_.  The 1949 "just cause" ("_protect unarmed Arabs against massacres"_ )  has long since past and continuation of the conflict by (what is today) the Arab Palestinian is just another excuse to continue the war; absent any good faith effect to settle the dispute by peaceful means according to the Charter.
> 
> In 1949 Egypt got what it wanted, Jordan got what it wanted, and both Lebanon and Syria disingaged to prevent further losses.  And the perpetuation of the conflict by the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians gradually brought the current political conditions, security enhancements and counter-terrorism expansions, and the adjustment of territorial lines, continues to be based on the every growing and continuation of Arab Palestinian hostilities.
> 
> You call it a "*Big Fat lie*."  I like to think of it as reality, outside the childish mental health of the Arab Palestinian that prefers conflict to peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There are some things that you twist or leave out of your rant. But you do mention the basis of the conflict.

I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."​
Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.

What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.

The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.

Immigrants or foreign invaders?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I cannot argue with a Arab Palestinian that denies the reality of what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.
> 
> the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​
> Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.
> 
> That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1)  In this case, "Palestine" was the meaning originally assigned by the Palestine Order in Council.
> 
> 2)  On May 1, when it was still Mandate Territory, and the constituents of the Jewish Community were still citizens of the Palestine Government under the Mandate,  Syria,  Lebanon, and Egyptian forces were already crossing the frontier (invasion) into the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Remember the Jewish were also citizens of the Government of Palestine, in the very same way and under the very same authority as the Arab Palestinian _(setup by the Mandate and authorized by the Palestinian Citizenship order)_.  I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."  Your claim that the Zionist were attacking Palestine is a neat trick, and a good peace of propaganda and spin.  They can twist the reality any way they want, and shout their perspective as loud as they want.  But the reality is unchanged.  Arab League forces were infiltrating into Palestine _(the Territory under Mandate)_ as early as 1 May.  That makes the Arab League Armies the aggressor; no matter how you spin it.
> 
> 3)  The claim that the Arab League was trying to prevent this or that, is irrelevant.  They crossed their respective frontiers for their own benefit and aggrandizement.  No matter what political smoke screen the Arab League sets in place as their "just cause," a prerequisite _jus ad bellum_,
> ​
> 
> The serious implication is that any hostile engagement requires a "just cause" at the outset; but the continuation of hostilities lacks the justification and is therefore impermissible. Just cause thus determines the conditions for the termination of war.  The legal ethic behind the continuation of hostilities, based on the Arab League claim that they wanted to prevent the Jewish from exacting some evil has past.  It has long since dissipated with there "just cause" _(as the King of Jordan put it:   "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres")_.  The 1949 "just cause" ("_protect unarmed Arabs against massacres"_ )  has long since past and continuation of the conflict by (what is today) the Arab Palestinian is just another excuse to continue the war; absent any good faith effect to settle the dispute by peaceful means according to the Charter.
> 
> In 1949 Egypt got what it wanted, Jordan got what it wanted, and both Lebanon and Syria disingaged to prevent further losses.  And the perpetuation of the conflict by the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians gradually brought the current political conditions, security enhancements and counter-terrorism expansions, and the adjustment of territorial lines, continues to be based on the every growing and continuation of Arab Palestinian hostilities.
> 
> You call it a "*Big Fat lie*."  I like to think of it as reality, outside the childish mental health of the Arab Palestinian that prefers conflict to peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are some things that you twist or leave out of your rant. But you do mention the basis of the conflict.
> 
> I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."​
> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?
Click to expand...


"There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine"

That's really not true. Islam is, by mere claims of it's inventor, morally and legally correct to discriminate against non-moslems. You should not believe that the kuffar does not know their koranology. There are many examples of revulsion for Jews in Islamist ideology. Islam's theology, such as it is, is inseparable from its political program: conversion by the sword, suppression-via-oppression of all competing faiths, and ultimately, subjugation of the entire world under Islamic sharia law is a core element of islamist ideology. With a current perspective, the Western nations that have solicited Moslem immigration have hoped that the pleasures and opportunities of life in more advanced nations would seduce Moslems into abandoning the nastier bits of their creed. It was a vain hope; Islam's political commands are as much "the will of muhammud" (swish), as any of its moral ones, and are therefore, integral to its ideals of fascism..


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I cannot argue with a Arab Palestinian that denies the reality of what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.
> 
> the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​
> Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.
> 
> That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1)  In this case, "Palestine" was the meaning originally assigned by the Palestine Order in Council.
> 
> 2)  On May 1, when it was still Mandate Territory, and the constituents of the Jewish Community were still citizens of the Palestine Government under the Mandate,  Syria,  Lebanon, and Egyptian forces were already crossing the frontier (invasion) into the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Remember the Jewish were also citizens of the Government of Palestine, in the very same way and under the very same authority as the Arab Palestinian _(setup by the Mandate and authorized by the Palestinian Citizenship order)_.  I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."  Your claim that the Zionist were attacking Palestine is a neat trick, and a good peace of propaganda and spin.  They can twist the reality any way they want, and shout their perspective as loud as they want.  But the reality is unchanged.  Arab League forces were infiltrating into Palestine _(the Territory under Mandate)_ as early as 1 May.  That makes the Arab League Armies the aggressor; no matter how you spin it.
> 
> 3)  The claim that the Arab League was trying to prevent this or that, is irrelevant.  They crossed their respective frontiers for their own benefit and aggrandizement.  No matter what political smoke screen the Arab League sets in place as their "just cause," a prerequisite _jus ad bellum_,
> ​
> 
> The serious implication is that any hostile engagement requires a "just cause" at the outset; but the continuation of hostilities lacks the justification and is therefore impermissible. Just cause thus determines the conditions for the termination of war.  The legal ethic behind the continuation of hostilities, based on the Arab League claim that they wanted to prevent the Jewish from exacting some evil has past.  It has long since dissipated with there "just cause" _(as the King of Jordan put it:   "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres")_.  The 1949 "just cause" ("_protect unarmed Arabs against massacres"_ )  has long since past and continuation of the conflict by (what is today) the Arab Palestinian is just another excuse to continue the war; absent any good faith effect to settle the dispute by peaceful means according to the Charter.
> 
> In 1949 Egypt got what it wanted, Jordan got what it wanted, and both Lebanon and Syria disingaged to prevent further losses.  And the perpetuation of the conflict by the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians gradually brought the current political conditions, security enhancements and counter-terrorism expansions, and the adjustment of territorial lines, continues to be based on the every growing and continuation of Arab Palestinian hostilities.
> 
> You call it a "*Big Fat lie*."  I like to think of it as reality, outside the childish mental health of the Arab Palestinian that prefers conflict to peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are some things that you twist or leave out of your rant. But you do mention the basis of the conflict.
> 
> I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."​
> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?
Click to expand...







 They lost any rights they had once they sided with the Ottomans and the land was given away without a second's pause. They never owned the sovereignty of the land in all of the Ottomans reign, and the LoN deliberately left out the arab muslim filastins when they portioned up the former Ottoman empire. Right up until the 1960's the only palestinians were the Jews, and then the Russians told arafat he needed a name for his people to give them credibility so he stole palestinians, or more precisely filastins.
 What a LYING POS you are as you know the arab muslims were enforcing the dhimmi laws and Pact of Umar on all the non muslims in the syrian sanjak. This included what is now called Jordan, Israel and palestine, and as your own links have shown was the reason the Israeli Defence Forces were formed to protect the Jewish inhabitants from attack by the arab muslim invaders.
Yes the arab muslims were the invaders as the evidence shows, and they arrived in their tens of thousands yearly to wait for the chance to go on a rampage killing Jews and stealing their lands. The arab muslims invaded and claimed that they were the real land owners. Again the historical evidence shows that the migrant Jews who were legal immigrants under international laws were prepared to live side by side with the existing inhabitants and teach them the new improved farming methods from Europe
So where are the Jewish settlements in gaza, Egypt, Saudi, Jordan and Lebanon if they are out to create a wholly Jewish palestine ?   Why do you think that Jordan was formed with the blessing of the Jews to stop any one party gaining a wholly arab muslim or wholly Jewish nation.


So who in the eyes of the world and international law who are the invaders, and who are the invited migrants. I dont see many people rooting for the arab muslim terrorists, do you ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I cannot argue with a Arab Palestinian that denies the reality of what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.
> 
> the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​
> Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.
> 
> That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1)  In this case, "Palestine" was the meaning originally assigned by the Palestine Order in Council.
> 
> 2)  On May 1, when it was still Mandate Territory, and the constituents of the Jewish Community were still citizens of the Palestine Government under the Mandate,  Syria,  Lebanon, and Egyptian forces were already crossing the frontier (invasion) into the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Remember the Jewish were also citizens of the Government of Palestine, in the very same way and under the very same authority as the Arab Palestinian _(setup by the Mandate and authorized by the Palestinian Citizenship order)_.  I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."  Your claim that the Zionist were attacking Palestine is a neat trick, and a good peace of propaganda and spin.  They can twist the reality any way they want, and shout their perspective as loud as they want.  But the reality is unchanged.  Arab League forces were infiltrating into Palestine _(the Territory under Mandate)_ as early as 1 May.  That makes the Arab League Armies the aggressor; no matter how you spin it.
> 
> 3)  The claim that the Arab League was trying to prevent this or that, is irrelevant.  They crossed their respective frontiers for their own benefit and aggrandizement.  No matter what political smoke screen the Arab League sets in place as their "just cause," a prerequisite _jus ad bellum_,
> ​
> 
> The serious implication is that any hostile engagement requires a "just cause" at the outset; but the continuation of hostilities lacks the justification and is therefore impermissible. Just cause thus determines the conditions for the termination of war.  The legal ethic behind the continuation of hostilities, based on the Arab League claim that they wanted to prevent the Jewish from exacting some evil has past.  It has long since dissipated with there "just cause" _(as the King of Jordan put it:   "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres")_.  The 1949 "just cause" ("_protect unarmed Arabs against massacres"_ )  has long since past and continuation of the conflict by (what is today) the Arab Palestinian is just another excuse to continue the war; absent any good faith effect to settle the dispute by peaceful means according to the Charter.
> 
> In 1949 Egypt got what it wanted, Jordan got what it wanted, and both Lebanon and Syria disingaged to prevent further losses.  And the perpetuation of the conflict by the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians gradually brought the current political conditions, security enhancements and counter-terrorism expansions, and the adjustment of territorial lines, continues to be based on the every growing and continuation of Arab Palestinian hostilities.
> 
> You call it a "*Big Fat lie*."  I like to think of it as reality, outside the childish mental health of the Arab Palestinian that prefers conflict to peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are some things that you twist or leave out of your rant. But you do mention the basis of the conflict.
> 
> I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."​
> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost any rights they had once they sided with the Ottomans and the land was given away without a second's pause. They never owned the sovereignty of the land in all of the Ottomans reign, and the LoN deliberately left out the arab muslim filastins when they portioned up the former Ottoman empire. Right up until the 1960's the only palestinians were the Jews, and then the Russians told arafat he needed a name for his people to give them credibility so he stole palestinians, or more precisely filastins.
> What a LYING POS you are as you know the arab muslims were enforcing the dhimmi laws and Pact of Umar on all the non muslims in the syrian sanjak. This included what is now called Jordan, Israel and palestine, and as your own links have shown was the reason the Israeli Defence Forces were formed to protect the Jewish inhabitants from attack by the arab muslim invaders.
> Yes the arab muslims were the invaders as the evidence shows, and they arrived in their tens of thousands yearly to wait for the chance to go on a rampage killing Jews and stealing their lands. The arab muslims invaded and claimed that they were the real land owners. Again the historical evidence shows that the migrant Jews who were legal immigrants under international laws were prepared to live side by side with the existing inhabitants and teach them the new improved farming methods from Europe
> So where are the Jewish settlements in gaza, Egypt, Saudi, Jordan and Lebanon if they are out to create a wholly Jewish palestine ?   Why do you think that Jordan was formed with the blessing of the Jews to stop any one party gaining a wholly arab muslim or wholly Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> So who in the eyes of the world and international law who are the invaders, and who are the invited migrants. I dont see many people rooting for the arab muslim terrorists, do you ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever!


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Just Remember - There was no country of Palestine that was not an Artificial construct by the Allied Powers.

The Government of Palestine (The British Mandatory) was not an Arab sovereign State.  It was a portion of the surrendered territory placed under Mandate.



			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> If a people are invited by the Government to immigrate





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?


*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish immigrants did not use force to enter Palestine.  It was there to re-establish the Jewish National Home (JNH), not further defined.  It was the UN that invited the Jewish People to accept the partition and re-constitute the JNH.

No matter what you call it, the essential fact remains that the Jewish People were intended to be in the territory as determined as the territory for which the Mandate for Palestine applied; by the Allied Powers.

YES, you are absolutely and 100% correct.   The imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world.  *The Zionist Organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency _(later to be called the *Jewish Agency*)_.  And yes, it was an advantage for the Jewish agency to become a regular public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine.   It should be amplified that three attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.

Now it is important here notice this growing trend for the Arab Population to adopt this myopic view and NOT recognize that which is a tangible and functioning entity (The Jewish Agency).  This is a recurring _modus operandi_ which will cause them difficulty periodically through this adventure. 

•  The Jewish Agency link-up the Jewish People with the "historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home."

•  The Jewish Agency did take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the
co-operation of _*all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment*_ of the Jewish national home.​
Yes, the Jewish People did this.  They do not deny it.  And way should they?  They followed the Mandate for Palestine and the ruling body behind the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic that renounced *all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories* situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I cannot argue with a Arab Palestinian that denies the reality of what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
> Israel was attacked by an Arab League Army with components from each of the Arab States adjacent to Israel.​
> That is not true. You are spewing Israeli lies.
> 
> the Jewish Agency for Palestine drew the attention of the Security Council to reports of the *invasion of Palestine* by regular forces of Syria and Lebanon in the north and by Egyptian forces in the south. It was also reliably informed, the Agency stated, that a strong column of Iraqi troops was *en route towards Palestine.*​
> Israel was not attacked. The Arab armies fought Zionist/Israeli forces in Palestine because Palestine was under attack.
> 
> That Israel was fighting a defensive war is a big fat lie.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1)  In this case, "Palestine" was the meaning originally assigned by the Palestine Order in Council.
> 
> 2)  On May 1, when it was still Mandate Territory, and the constituents of the Jewish Community were still citizens of the Palestine Government under the Mandate,  Syria,  Lebanon, and Egyptian forces were already crossing the frontier (invasion) into the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Remember the Jewish were also citizens of the Government of Palestine, in the very same way and under the very same authority as the Arab Palestinian _(setup by the Mandate and authorized by the Palestinian Citizenship order)_.  I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."  Your claim that the Zionist were attacking Palestine is a neat trick, and a good peace of propaganda and spin.  They can twist the reality any way they want, and shout their perspective as loud as they want.  But the reality is unchanged.  Arab League forces were infiltrating into Palestine _(the Territory under Mandate)_ as early as 1 May.  That makes the Arab League Armies the aggressor; no matter how you spin it.
> 
> 3)  The claim that the Arab League was trying to prevent this or that, is irrelevant.  They crossed their respective frontiers for their own benefit and aggrandizement.  No matter what political smoke screen the Arab League sets in place as their "just cause," a prerequisite _jus ad bellum_,
> ​
> 
> The serious implication is that any hostile engagement requires a "just cause" at the outset; but the continuation of hostilities lacks the justification and is therefore impermissible. Just cause thus determines the conditions for the termination of war.  The legal ethic behind the continuation of hostilities, based on the Arab League claim that they wanted to prevent the Jewish from exacting some evil has past.  It has long since dissipated with there "just cause" _(as the King of Jordan put it:   "compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres")_.  The 1949 "just cause" ("_protect unarmed Arabs against massacres"_ )  has long since past and continuation of the conflict by (what is today) the Arab Palestinian is just another excuse to continue the war; absent any good faith effect to settle the dispute by peaceful means according to the Charter.
> 
> In 1949 Egypt got what it wanted, Jordan got what it wanted, and both Lebanon and Syria disingaged to prevent further losses.  And the perpetuation of the conflict by the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians gradually brought the current political conditions, security enhancements and counter-terrorism expansions, and the adjustment of territorial lines, continues to be based on the every growing and continuation of Arab Palestinian hostilities.
> 
> You call it a "*Big Fat lie*."  I like to think of it as reality, outside the childish mental health of the Arab Palestinian that prefers conflict to peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are some things that you twist or leave out of your rant. But you do mention the basis of the conflict.
> 
> I notice that the pro-Palestinian like to call the Jewish citizens of Palestine "foreign invaders."​
> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost any rights they had once they sided with the Ottomans and the land was given away without a second's pause. They never owned the sovereignty of the land in all of the Ottomans reign, and the LoN deliberately left out the arab muslim filastins when they portioned up the former Ottoman empire. Right up until the 1960's the only palestinians were the Jews, and then the Russians told arafat he needed a name for his people to give them credibility so he stole palestinians, or more precisely filastins.
> What a LYING POS you are as you know the arab muslims were enforcing the dhimmi laws and Pact of Umar on all the non muslims in the syrian sanjak. This included what is now called Jordan, Israel and palestine, and as your own links have shown was the reason the Israeli Defence Forces were formed to protect the Jewish inhabitants from attack by the arab muslim invaders.
> Yes the arab muslims were the invaders as the evidence shows, and they arrived in their tens of thousands yearly to wait for the chance to go on a rampage killing Jews and stealing their lands. The arab muslims invaded and claimed that they were the real land owners. Again the historical evidence shows that the migrant Jews who were legal immigrants under international laws were prepared to live side by side with the existing inhabitants and teach them the new improved farming methods from Europe
> So where are the Jewish settlements in gaza, Egypt, Saudi, Jordan and Lebanon if they are out to create a wholly Jewish palestine ?   Why do you think that Jordan was formed with the blessing of the Jews to stop any one party gaining a wholly arab muslim or wholly Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> So who in the eyes of the world and international law who are the invaders, and who are the invited migrants. I dont see many people rooting for the arab muslim terrorists, do you ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, whatever!
Click to expand...







 No international law of 1917 to 1949.   Learn about it and weep


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Just Remember - There was no country of Palestine that was not an Artificial construct by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Government of Palestine (The British Mandatory) was not an Arab sovereign State.  It was a portion of the surrendered territory placed under Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a people are invited by the Government to immigrate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish immigrants did not use force to enter Palestine.  It was there to re-establish the Jewish National Home (JNH), not further defined.  It was the UN that invited the Jewish People to accept the partition and re-constitute the JNH.
> 
> No matter what you call it, the essential fact remains that the Jewish People were intended to be in the territory as determined as the territory for which the Mandate for Palestine applied; by the Allied Powers.
> 
> YES, you are absolutely and 100% correct.   The imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world.  *The Zionist Organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency _(later to be called the *Jewish Agency*)_.  And yes, it was an advantage for the Jewish agency to become a regular public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine.   It should be amplified that three attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Now it is important here notice this growing trend for the Arab Population to adopt this myopic view and NOT recognize that which is a tangible and functioning entity (The Jewish Agency).  This is a recurring _modus operandi_ which will cause them difficulty periodically through this adventure.
> 
> •  The Jewish Agency link-up the Jewish People with the "historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home."
> 
> •  The Jewish Agency did take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the
> co-operation of _*all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment*_ of the Jewish national home.​
> Yes, the Jewish People did this.  They do not deny it.  And way should they?  They followed the Mandate for Palestine and the ruling body behind the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic that renounced *all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories* situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Just Remember - There was no country of Palestine that was not an Artificial construct by the Allied Powers.​
The same for Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan. Do you have a point?

The Jewish immigrants did not use force to enter Palestine.​
That is a lie. When the occupation of Transjordan changed to the Mandate, Britain withdrew its forces leaving a handful of advisors behind.

When the occupation of Palestine changed to the Mandate, Britain maintained a military force. They knew they were going to pull some shit and needed to keep their guns to pull it off.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?

CAIR's Lamis Deek Fetes Jerusalem Terrorist


A Palestinian man shot dead Sunday after waging a terrorist attack that killed two people in Jerusalem and wounded five others was hailed as "the Lion of Jerusalem" and a martyr by an official with the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

Mesbah Abu Sbeih, 39, engaged in "self-defense," Deek wrote Monday on Twitter. That is "...*not* an attack. Reporting otherwise perpetuates a false propaganda."

As we have shown, this kind of glorification of violence, when directed at Israelis, isconsistent for Deek, an attorney who serves on the board for CAIR's New York chapter. She has called Israel "the genocidal zionist regime."

In this case, she reposted a video tribute to Sbeih on Facebook, describing him as "this mountain of a man, how they envied him." The video shows footage of the shooting attack and its aftermath, including a Palestinian taping on his cell phone from a distance shouting, "Allahu Akhbar."

Deek's organization, CAIR, has roots in a Hamas support organization in the United States created by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. Witnesses and documentsestablish these connections, but CAIR officials refuse to confront the issue directly.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

The entire notion that there was an "invader 'vs' "immigrant" question is fallacious.   

The international understanding at the time was that:  "Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People."  And to meet this responsibility to establish of a Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble of the Mandate for Palestine, and the development of self-governing institutions.  *To that end*, and the Allied Powers at San Remo recognizing the historical connection of the Jewish People with Palestine,  the Administration of Palestine, shall facilitate Jewish immigration.

Now every one will recognize the special circumstances created by the official German Anti-Semitic Program 10 May 1933 Medieval Book Burning Night (_“Action Against the Un-German Spirit”_) when books by Jewish Authors_ __(including Einstein, Freud, HG Wells, and many others)_ were deemed inappropriate.  Now when you are a Jewish German _(proven loyalty not withstanding)_ and you are running for your life, you don't tend to worry about quotas.  So, during the period of about 1938 to 1944, there was a huge influx of Jewish Immigrants to territory under Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entire notion that there was an "invader 'vs' "immigrant" question is fallacious.
> 
> The international understanding at the time was that:  "Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People."  And to meet this responsibility to establish of a Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble of the Mandate for Palestine, and the development of self-governing institutions.  *To that end*, and the Allied Powers at San Remo recognizing the historical connection of the Jewish People with Palestine,  the Administration of Palestine, shall facilitate Jewish immigration.
> 
> Now every one will recognize the special circumstances created by the official German Anti-Semitic Program 10 May 1933 Medieval Book Burning Night (_“Action Against the Un-German Spirit”_) when books by Jewish Authors_ __(including Einstein, Freud, HG Wells, and many others)_ were deemed inappropriate.  Now when you are a Jewish German _(proven loyalty not withstanding)_ and you are running for your life, you don't tend to worry about quotas.  So, during the period of about 1938 to 1944, there was a huge influx of Jewish Immigrants to territory under Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


And this refutes my post how?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entire notion that there was an "invader 'vs' "immigrant" question is fallacious.
> 
> The international understanding at the time was that:  "Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People."  And to meet this responsibility to establish of a Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble of the Mandate for Palestine, and the development of self-governing institutions.  *To that end*, and the Allied Powers at San Remo recognizing the historical connection of the Jewish People with Palestine,  the Administration of Palestine, shall facilitate Jewish immigration.
> 
> Now every one will recognize the special circumstances created by the official German Anti-Semitic Program 10 May 1933 Medieval Book Burning Night (_“Action Against the Un-German Spirit”_) when books by Jewish Authors_ __(including Einstein, Freud, HG Wells, and many others)_ were deemed inappropriate.  Now when you are a Jewish German _(proven loyalty not withstanding)_ and you are running for your life, you don't tend to worry about quotas.  So, during the period of about 1938 to 1944, there was a huge influx of Jewish Immigrants to territory under Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> And this refutes my post how?
Click to expand...


_And this refutes my post how? _™


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

You have absolutely no correlation to a Jewish Invasion of Allied Powers territory under Mandate.



P F Tinmore said:


> And this refutes my post how?


*(COMMENT)*

Just where and when did the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic render the Hostile Arab Palestinians any territory, independence or sovereignty --- anywhere in the region?

As I said in a earlier post, this absurd notion that there was an armed invasion by Jewish Immigrants is just an attempt to spice-up the just cause issue in the minds of the general society.  The association of an armed invasion a blatant misrepresentation of the fact.  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have absolutely no correlation to a Jewish Invasion of Allied Powers territory under Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this refutes my post how?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just where and when did the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic render the Hostile Arab Palestinians any territory, independence or sovereignty --- anywhere in the region?
> 
> As I said in a earlier post, this absurd notion that there was an armed invasion by Jewish Immigrants is just an attempt to spice-up the just cause issue in the minds of the general society.  The association of an armed invasion a blatant misrepresentation of the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So you are back to the old the Palestinians had no rights canard.

Why did the British need its military to "render administrative assistance and advise" as specified in the LoN Covenant? That must have been some pretty heavy duty advice.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

Sometimes, I cannot tell what you are talking about.



P F Tinmore said:


> So you are back to the old the Palestinians had no rights canard.


*(COMMENT)*

I did not mention the issue of "rights" at all.  Where did that come from?

The people _(that were to eventually become known as the Arab Palestinian)_ of 1918, under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), had the same rights as the people of 1925 becoming citizens of the Government of Palestine (the British Mandatory); and the post-Mandate Period (14/15 May 1948); the same Arab people of the post-War of Independence for Israel (post-Armistice); the same people of the post-1950 Annexation of the West Bank and the establishment of the Egyptian Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip; the same people as the having declared a Jihad against Israel; the same Arabs of the post-Jordanian Sovereignty period, and the release from Egyptian Governorship; and the very same Arab Palestinian people that in 1988 declared Independence over the territory occupied since 1967.  AND, substantially the same Arab Palestinian People that signed the Oslo Accords.  

As various rights coming into existence for all other people, so did the rights of the Arab Palestinian people.  They never changed and they were never taken away. Not even the Treaty between the Israelis and Egypt/Jordan changed the rights of the Arab Palestinian.

The Arab Palestinian people do not have the right to demand something that was never theirs to begin with, and they just do not have the right to take by force what they want.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Why did the British need its military to "render administrative assistance and advise" as specified in the LoN Covenant? That must have been some pretty heavy duty advice.


*(COMMENT)*

As part of the Mandate and in observance of the 1907 Hague Regulation, the Administration of Palestine for the preservation of peace and order; and also for the defence of the country, subject to the supervision of the British Mandatory. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sometimes, I cannot tell what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are back to the old the Palestinians had no rights canard.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I did not mention the issue of "rights" at all.  Where did that come from?
> 
> The people _(that were to eventually become known as the Arab Palestinian)_ of 1918, under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), had the same rights as the people of 1925 becoming citizens of the Government of Palestine (the British Mandatory); and the post-Mandate Period (14/15 May 1948); the same Arab people of the post-War of Independence for Israel (post-Armistice); the same people of the post-1950 Annexation of the West Bank and the establishment of the Egyptian Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip; the same people as the having declared a Jihad against Israel; the same Arabs of the post-Jordanian Sovereignty period, and the release from Egyptian Governorship; and the very same Arab Palestinian people that in 1988 declared Independence over the territory occupied since 1967.  AND, substantially the same Arab Palestinian People that signed the Oslo Accords.
> 
> As various rights coming into existence for all other people, so did the rights of the Arab Palestinian people.  They never changed and they were never taken away. Not even the Treaty between the Israelis and Egypt/Jordan changed the rights of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people do not have the right to demand something that was never theirs to begin with, and they just do not have the right to take by force what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the British need its military to "render administrative assistance and advise" as specified in the LoN Covenant? That must have been some pretty heavy duty advice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As part of the Mandate and in observance of the 1907 Hague Regulation, the Administration of Palestine for the preservation of peace and order; and also for the defence of the country, subject to the supervision of the British Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sometimes, I cannot tell what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are back to the old the Palestinians had no rights canard.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I did not mention the issue of "rights" at all.  Where did that come from?
> 
> The people _(that were to eventually become known as the Arab Palestinian)_ of 1918, under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), had the same rights as the people of 1925 becoming citizens of the Government of Palestine (the British Mandatory); and the post-Mandate Period (14/15 May 1948); the same Arab people of the post-War of Independence for Israel (post-Armistice); the same people of the post-1950 Annexation of the West Bank and the establishment of the Egyptian Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip; the same people as the having declared a Jihad against Israel; the same Arabs of the post-Jordanian Sovereignty period, and the release from Egyptian Governorship; and the very same Arab Palestinian people that in 1988 declared Independence over the territory occupied since 1967.  AND, substantially the same Arab Palestinian People that signed the Oslo Accords.
> 
> As various rights coming into existence for all other people, so did the rights of the Arab Palestinian people.  They never changed and they were never taken away. Not even the Treaty between the Israelis and Egypt/Jordan changed the rights of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people do not have the right to demand something that was never theirs to begin with, and they just do not have the right to take by force what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the British need its military to "render administrative assistance and advise" as specified in the LoN Covenant? That must have been some pretty heavy duty advice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As part of the Mandate and in observance of the 1907 Hague Regulation, the Administration of Palestine for the preservation of peace and order; and also for the defence of the country, subject to the supervision of the British Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?
Click to expand...


The head tribal honchos would handle matters within their own little villages.  Perhaps your new sidekick can tell us how the head honchos figured out the pay scale, the uniforms they wore, and their retirement benefits.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Just Remember - There was no country of Palestine that was not an Artificial construct by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Government of Palestine (The British Mandatory) was not an Arab sovereign State.  It was a portion of the surrendered territory placed under Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a people are invited by the Government to immigrate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if this is true or false. The Mandate said that its purpose was to facilitate the immigration and acquisition of citizenship by Jews. Even though this policy was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun against their wishes it might not have been that bad. There was no inherent animosity between the Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Palestine. Ultimately the Mandate had control of this process.
> 
> What is the difference between immigrants and foreign invaders?
> 
> An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that country and live with the existing population.
> 
> The Zionists, however, imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world to live separate from the local population with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Immigrants or foreign invaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish immigrants did not use force to enter Palestine.  It was there to re-establish the Jewish National Home (JNH), not further defined.  It was the UN that invited the Jewish People to accept the partition and re-constitute the JNH.
> 
> No matter what you call it, the essential fact remains that the Jewish People were intended to be in the territory as determined as the territory for which the Mandate for Palestine applied; by the Allied Powers.
> 
> YES, you are absolutely and 100% correct.   The imported as many Jews as they could find from around the world.  *The Zionist Organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency _(later to be called the *Jewish Agency*)_.  And yes, it was an advantage for the Jewish agency to become a regular public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine.   It should be amplified that three attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Now it is important here notice this growing trend for the Arab Population to adopt this myopic view and NOT recognize that which is a tangible and functioning entity (The Jewish Agency).  This is a recurring _modus operandi_ which will cause them difficulty periodically through this adventure.
> 
> •  The Jewish Agency link-up the Jewish People with the "historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home."
> 
> •  The Jewish Agency did take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the
> co-operation of _*all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment*_ of the Jewish national home.​
> Yes, the Jewish People did this.  They do not deny it.  And way should they?  They followed the Mandate for Palestine and the ruling body behind the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic that renounced *all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories* situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just Remember - There was no country of Palestine that was not an Artificial construct by the Allied Powers.​
> The same for Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan. Do you have a point?
> 
> The Jewish immigrants did not use force to enter Palestine.​
> That is a lie. When the occupation of Transjordan changed to the Mandate, Britain withdrew its forces leaving a handful of advisors behind.
> 
> When the occupation of Palestine changed to the Mandate, Britain maintained a military force. They knew they were going to pull some shit and needed to keep their guns to pull it off.
Click to expand...








 Different scenarios as trans Jordan would have an islamic governemnt that would shoot first and ask questions later. Just look at what they did to the palestinians in the camps when 50,000 were massacred as an object lesson.

From day one the arab muslims flooded into palestine to wipe out the Jews, and so the British kept a garrison there to keep the arab muslims under control.As team palestine links show the arab muslims were attacking the British constantly


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sometimes, I cannot tell what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are back to the old the Palestinians had no rights canard.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I did not mention the issue of "rights" at all.  Where did that come from?
> 
> The people _(that were to eventually become known as the Arab Palestinian)_ of 1918, under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), had the same rights as the people of 1925 becoming citizens of the Government of Palestine (the British Mandatory); and the post-Mandate Period (14/15 May 1948); the same Arab people of the post-War of Independence for Israel (post-Armistice); the same people of the post-1950 Annexation of the West Bank and the establishment of the Egyptian Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip; the same people as the having declared a Jihad against Israel; the same Arabs of the post-Jordanian Sovereignty period, and the release from Egyptian Governorship; and the very same Arab Palestinian people that in 1988 declared Independence over the territory occupied since 1967.  AND, substantially the same Arab Palestinian People that signed the Oslo Accords.
> 
> As various rights coming into existence for all other people, so did the rights of the Arab Palestinian people.  They never changed and they were never taken away. Not even the Treaty between the Israelis and Egypt/Jordan changed the rights of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people do not have the right to demand something that was never theirs to begin with, and they just do not have the right to take by force what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the British need its military to "render administrative assistance and advise" as specified in the LoN Covenant? That must have been some pretty heavy duty advice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As part of the Mandate and in observance of the 1907 Hague Regulation, the Administration of Palestine for the preservation of peace and order; and also for the defence of the country, subject to the supervision of the British Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?
Click to expand...







 No as they had British police to keep the peace, the British were after all the de facto interim government


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entire notion that there was an "invader 'vs' "immigrant" question is fallacious.
> 
> The international understanding at the time was that:  "Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People."  And to meet this responsibility to establish of a Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble of the Mandate for Palestine, and the development of self-governing institutions.  *To that end*, and the Allied Powers at San Remo recognizing the historical connection of the Jewish People with Palestine,  the Administration of Palestine, shall facilitate Jewish immigration.
> 
> Now every one will recognize the special circumstances created by the official German Anti-Semitic Program 10 May 1933 Medieval Book Burning Night (_“Action Against the Un-German Spirit”_) when books by Jewish Authors_ __(including Einstein, Freud, HG Wells, and many others)_ were deemed inappropriate.  Now when you are a Jewish German _(proven loyalty not withstanding)_ and you are running for your life, you don't tend to worry about quotas.  So, during the period of about 1938 to 1944, there was a huge influx of Jewish Immigrants to territory under Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> And this refutes my post how?
Click to expand...







 Simply because it does as you have no argument other than your fantasy islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have absolutely no correlation to a Jewish Invasion of Allied Powers territory under Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this refutes my post how?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just where and when did the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic render the Hostile Arab Palestinians any territory, independence or sovereignty --- anywhere in the region?
> 
> As I said in a earlier post, this absurd notion that there was an armed invasion by Jewish Immigrants is just an attempt to spice-up the just cause issue in the minds of the general society.  The association of an armed invasion a blatant misrepresentation of the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are back to the old the Palestinians had no rights canard.
> 
> Why did the British need its military to "render administrative assistance and advise" as specified in the LoN Covenant? That must have been some pretty heavy duty advice.
Click to expand...





At that time in history they didn't, and this is what you have a problem understanding. You are under the impression that human rights have always been universal and cant understand that they are granted at various times in history. They are not to be used retrospectively as you think, and dont work before their date of implementation


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, what is this, a trick question?



P F Tinmore said:


> Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?


*(COMMENT)*

The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world.  They used the Colonial Police Service Model (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world.  So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the Palestine Colonial Police; originally all British Serving Officers and constables and a pure British Membership in the rank and file.  But as time moved on, just as in the other areas of the world where the British established a Civilian Police contingent, gradually phased in recruits from the general population.  This integrated force coving the entirety of the British Mandate of Palestine had, just prior to the 1929 riots, more than a couple thousand officers and constables of all ranks.  This mix fluctuated but generally had a few hundred Jews Police constables, a slightly larger number of Arab Christian Police constables, and more than a thousand Arabs Muslim constables.  Similar percentages were found in the leading officer ranks. 

To meet special security and police concerns, the Palestinian Administration --- shortly after the Arab Revolt --- saw the need for the establishment of a Jewish Settlement Police contingent, later augmented by a mix British-Jewish Special Nighttime Unit.  It is believe that it was these two groups that largely responsible for the success in the police manhunt that eventually surrounded and killed the leader of the Black Hand which murdered a   British Constable (Nov '35).  The leader of the Black Hand was (of course) the Muslim Cleric and anti-Semitic activist Izz ad-Din al-Qassam who was a very well known instigator of trouble and known to incite violence throughout the British Mandate Territory. 

*(ANSWER)*

No --- I *did not say* that had no local police departments.  

But all Colonial and Territorial Police in the British Mandate Territory, including the Settlement Police (Stations and Gendarmeries) and joint British-Jewish unit known as the Special Night Squads (forerunner of the Special Operations Units) were under the responsibility of the High Commissioner; the the Legislative Council and the Inspector-General of Police.  (Palestine Order in Council)

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what is this, a trick question?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world.  They used the Colonial Police Service Model (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world.  So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the Palestine Colonial Police; originally all British Serving Officers and constables and a pure British Membership in the rank and file.  But as time moved on, just as in the other areas of the world where the British established a Civilian Police contingent, gradually phased in recruits from the general population.  This integrated force coving the entirety of the British Mandate of Palestine had, just prior to the 1929 riots, more than a couple thousand officers and constables of all ranks.  This mix fluctuated but generally had a few hundred Jews Police constables, a slightly larger number of Arab Christian Police constables, and more than a thousand Arabs Muslim constables.  Similar percentages were found in the leading officer ranks.
> 
> To meet special security and police concerns, the Palestinian Administration --- shortly after the Arab Revolt --- saw the need for the establishment of a Jewish Settlement Police contingent, later augmented by a mix British-Jewish Special Nighttime Unit.  It is believe that it was these two groups that largely responsible for the success in the police manhunt that eventually surrounded and killed the leader of the Black Hand which murdered a   British Constable (Nov '35).  The leader of the Black Hand was (of course) the Muslim Cleric and anti-Semitic activist Izz ad-Din al-Qassam who was a very well known instigator of trouble and known to incite violence throughout the British Mandate Territory.
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> No --- I *did not say* that had no local police departments.
> 
> But all Colonial and Territorial Police in the British Mandate Territory, including the Settlement Police (Stations and Gendarmeries) and joint British-Jewish unit known as the Special Night Squads (forerunner of the Special Operations Units) were under the responsibility of the High Commissioner; the the Legislative Council and the Inspector-General of Police.  (Palestine Order in Council)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world. They used the *Colonial Police Service Model* (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world. So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the *Palestine Colonial Police;*​

So, it was to enforce their colonial project. The existing police would not enforce the "right" stuff.

That's good to know.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what is this, a trick question?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world.  They used the Colonial Police Service Model (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world.  So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the Palestine Colonial Police; originally all British Serving Officers and constables and a pure British Membership in the rank and file.  But as time moved on, just as in the other areas of the world where the British established a Civilian Police contingent, gradually phased in recruits from the general population.  This integrated force coving the entirety of the British Mandate of Palestine had, just prior to the 1929 riots, more than a couple thousand officers and constables of all ranks.  This mix fluctuated but generally had a few hundred Jews Police constables, a slightly larger number of Arab Christian Police constables, and more than a thousand Arabs Muslim constables.  Similar percentages were found in the leading officer ranks.
> 
> To meet special security and police concerns, the Palestinian Administration --- shortly after the Arab Revolt --- saw the need for the establishment of a Jewish Settlement Police contingent, later augmented by a mix British-Jewish Special Nighttime Unit.  It is believe that it was these two groups that largely responsible for the success in the police manhunt that eventually surrounded and killed the leader of the Black Hand which murdered a   British Constable (Nov '35).  The leader of the Black Hand was (of course) the Muslim Cleric and anti-Semitic activist Izz ad-Din al-Qassam who was a very well known instigator of trouble and known to incite violence throughout the British Mandate Territory.
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> No --- I *did not say* that had no local police departments.
> 
> But all Colonial and Territorial Police in the British Mandate Territory, including the Settlement Police (Stations and Gendarmeries) and joint British-Jewish unit known as the Special Night Squads (forerunner of the Special Operations Units) were under the responsibility of the High Commissioner; the the Legislative Council and the Inspector-General of Police.  (Palestine Order in Council)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world. They used the *Colonial Police Service Model* (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world. So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the *Palestine Colonial Police;*​
> 
> So, it was to enforce their colonial project. The existing police would not enforce the "right" stuff.
> 
> That's good to know.
Click to expand...


The British, as administrators of the area, would of course bear responsibility for law enforcement. You're so desperate to promote your usual _colonial project_ ™ meme that you are, as usual, left to spam the thread with your usual slogans and cliches.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rula Jebreal*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Hitler Youth?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what is this, a trick question?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the the Palestinian cities and villages had no local police departments?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world.  They used the Colonial Police Service Model (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world.  So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the Palestine Colonial Police; originally all British Serving Officers and constables and a pure British Membership in the rank and file.  But as time moved on, just as in the other areas of the world where the British established a Civilian Police contingent, gradually phased in recruits from the general population.  This integrated force coving the entirety of the British Mandate of Palestine had, just prior to the 1929 riots, more than a couple thousand officers and constables of all ranks.  This mix fluctuated but generally had a few hundred Jews Police constables, a slightly larger number of Arab Christian Police constables, and more than a thousand Arabs Muslim constables.  Similar percentages were found in the leading officer ranks.
> 
> To meet special security and police concerns, the Palestinian Administration --- shortly after the Arab Revolt --- saw the need for the establishment of a Jewish Settlement Police contingent, later augmented by a mix British-Jewish Special Nighttime Unit.  It is believe that it was these two groups that largely responsible for the success in the police manhunt that eventually surrounded and killed the leader of the Black Hand which murdered a   British Constable (Nov '35).  The leader of the Black Hand was (of course) the Muslim Cleric and anti-Semitic activist Izz ad-Din al-Qassam who was a very well known instigator of trouble and known to incite violence throughout the British Mandate Territory.
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> No --- I *did not say* that had no local police departments.
> 
> But all Colonial and Territorial Police in the British Mandate Territory, including the Settlement Police (Stations and Gendarmeries) and joint British-Jewish unit known as the Special Night Squads (forerunner of the Special Operations Units) were under the responsibility of the High Commissioner; the the Legislative Council and the Inspector-General of Police.  (Palestine Order in Council)
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British originally used the very same set-up as they did all around the world. They used the *Colonial Police Service Model* (administered most of Britain's overseas possessions) as they did all around the world. So as the civil administration took responsibility for security from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1920) was placed under the *Palestine Colonial Police;*​
> 
> So, it was to enforce their colonial project. The existing police would not enforce the "right" stuff.
> 
> That's good to know.
Click to expand...








What colonial project as the Ottomans were the first to invite the Jews to migrate and close colonise the land of palestine. Are they not guilty of the same crime as the British then in your eyes


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rula Jebreal*
> 
> **









All she has in islamonazi talking points


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*









 Not even muslim, never mind arab.   They are actors employed by Jews to play a part


----------



## Hollie

Who are the CAIR terrorists?

Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.

*Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
*IPT News

Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
*
_*




* Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).

The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. 
_


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab -Moslem Death Cultists?

A coming of age in the Death Cult




Khaled Mashal / Mahmoud (Arafat II) Abbas are laughing all the way to the bank, cashing their welfare checks. They need those masses of screeching, unwashed cultists to keep the welfare fraud spigot flowing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the CAIR terrorists?
> 
> Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.
> 
> *Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
> *IPT News
> 
> Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
> *
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> * Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).
> 
> The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. _


A hit piece on Lamis Deek by an Islamophobia hate site.

WOW what a surprise.

A regular over the years on Fox News, Steven Emerson, is a well known tool in the American Zionist establishment, beloved by AIPAC and other such lobby/advocacy organizations. Before his most recent idiocy, Emerson’s most famous gaffe was blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on Muslims, saying things like, _“Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centres of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East.”_

Over the years Emerson has made millions from the counter-terrorism/Islamophobia industries (check out: million$$$ of reasons to promote hate and suspicion of Muslims). He has made several movies depicting Muslim Americans as a Fifth Column. His website, *The Investigative Project on Terrorism* is known to publish articles promoting racism and Islamophobia.

In this context it becomes understandable why Emerson would make a complete and utter ass out of himself by claiming that the English city of Birmingham was “totally Muslim,” and that there are “no-go areas” all over the place. This got all of England (and the world) laughing at him, with the satirical Twitter hashtag #FoxNewsFacts trending:

Phony Terrorism Expert “Steven Emerson” Manages To Get All Of England Laughing At Him​----------------------------
*David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​*​
An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said

The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.

David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the CAIR terrorists?
> 
> Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.
> 
> *Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
> *IPT News
> 
> Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
> *
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> * Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).
> 
> The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. _
> 
> 
> 
> A hit piece on Lamis Deek by an Islamophobia hate site.
> 
> WOW what a surprise.
> 
> A regular over the years on Fox News, Steven Emerson, is a well known tool in the American Zionist establishment, beloved by AIPAC and other such lobby/advocacy organizations. Before his most recent idiocy, Emerson’s most famous gaffe was blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on Muslims, saying things like, _“Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centres of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East.”_
> 
> Over the years Emerson has made millions from the counter-terrorism/Islamophobia industries (check out: million$$$ of reasons to promote hate and suspicion of Muslims). He has made several movies depicting Muslim Americans as a Fifth Column. His website, *The Investigative Project on Terrorism* is known to publish articles promoting racism and Islamophobia.
> 
> In this context it becomes understandable why Emerson would make a complete and utter ass out of himself by claiming that the English city of Birmingham was “totally Muslim,” and that there are “no-go areas” all over the place. This got all of England (and the world) laughing at him, with the satirical Twitter hashtag #FoxNewsFacts trending:
> 
> Phony Terrorism Expert “Steven Emerson” Manages To Get All Of England Laughing At Him​----------------------------
> *David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'*
> 
> An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said
> 
> The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.
> 
> David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​
Click to expand...

_Nice dodge_™

Reporting the fact of your Death Cult hero glorifying Islamic terrorists is somehow islamo-phobic™

Did we hit a nerve Mr. Death Cultist?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the CAIR terrorists?
> 
> Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.
> 
> *Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
> *IPT News
> 
> Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
> *
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> * Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).
> 
> The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. _
> 
> 
> 
> A hit piece on Lamis Deek by an Islamophobia hate site.
> 
> WOW what a surprise.
> 
> A regular over the years on Fox News, Steven Emerson, is a well known tool in the American Zionist establishment, beloved by AIPAC and other such lobby/advocacy organizations. Before his most recent idiocy, Emerson’s most famous gaffe was blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on Muslims, saying things like, _“Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centres of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East.”_
> 
> Over the years Emerson has made millions from the counter-terrorism/Islamophobia industries (check out: million$$$ of reasons to promote hate and suspicion of Muslims). He has made several movies depicting Muslim Americans as a Fifth Column. His website, *The Investigative Project on Terrorism* is known to publish articles promoting racism and Islamophobia.
> 
> In this context it becomes understandable why Emerson would make a complete and utter ass out of himself by claiming that the English city of Birmingham was “totally Muslim,” and that there are “no-go areas” all over the place. This got all of England (and the world) laughing at him, with the satirical Twitter hashtag #FoxNewsFacts trending:
> 
> Phony Terrorism Expert “Steven Emerson” Manages To Get All Of England Laughing At Him​----------------------------
> *David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'*
> 
> An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said
> 
> The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.
> 
> David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nice dodge_™
> 
> Reporting the fact of your Death Cult hero glorifying Islamic terrorists is somehow islamo-phobic™
> 
> Did we hit a nerve Mr. Death Cultist?
Click to expand...

No, its just the standard Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the CAIR terrorists?
> 
> Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.
> 
> *Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
> *IPT News
> 
> Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
> *
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> * Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).
> 
> The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. _
> 
> 
> 
> A hit piece on Lamis Deek by an Islamophobia hate site.
> 
> WOW what a surprise.
> 
> A regular over the years on Fox News, Steven Emerson, is a well known tool in the American Zionist establishment, beloved by AIPAC and other such lobby/advocacy organizations. Before his most recent idiocy, Emerson’s most famous gaffe was blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on Muslims, saying things like, _“Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centres of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East.”_
> 
> Over the years Emerson has made millions from the counter-terrorism/Islamophobia industries (check out: million$$$ of reasons to promote hate and suspicion of Muslims). He has made several movies depicting Muslim Americans as a Fifth Column. His website, *The Investigative Project on Terrorism* is known to publish articles promoting racism and Islamophobia.
> 
> In this context it becomes understandable why Emerson would make a complete and utter ass out of himself by claiming that the English city of Birmingham was “totally Muslim,” and that there are “no-go areas” all over the place. This got all of England (and the world) laughing at him, with the satirical Twitter hashtag #FoxNewsFacts trending:
> 
> Phony Terrorism Expert “Steven Emerson” Manages To Get All Of England Laughing At Him​----------------------------
> *David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'*
> 
> An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said
> 
> The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.
> 
> David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nice dodge_™
> 
> Reporting the fact of your Death Cult hero glorifying Islamic terrorists is somehow islamo-phobic™
> 
> Did we hit a nerve Mr. Death Cultist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, its just the standard Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...


That's a curious observation. 

Your Islamic terrorist heroes glorifying acts of islamic terrorism is "Israeli bullshit?"

What a shame you have the same failings as the CAIR Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers.


----------



## Hollie

More Lamis Deek'isms. 

July 2015.

It's always interesting to see how many of the Islamic terrorist "rights advocates" so often do their advocating from the comforts and safety of the _Great Satan_ ™ they're so quick to vilify.

More Blind Hate Toward Israel From a CAIR Official

Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY), is a self-described "Human Rights Advocate" dedicated to promoting justice and human rights – except when it comes to Israel.

In a response to a report Monday that President Obama intends to grant clemency to nonviolent drug offenders, Deek called on the president to release "Political Prisoners" including convicted terrorist financiers and a convicted killer.

....

The "Holy Land Five" refers to five officials from the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation who were convicted in 2008 of illegally transferring over $12 million to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization committed to attacking Israeli civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.


Lovely, lovely folks these pious moslems.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> More Lamis Deek'isms.
> 
> July 2015.
> 
> It's always interesting to see how many of the Islamic terrorist "rights advocates" so often do their advocating from the comforts and safety of the _Great Satan_ ™ they're so quick to vilify.
> 
> More Blind Hate Toward Israel From a CAIR Official
> 
> Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY), is a self-described "Human Rights Advocate" dedicated to promoting justice and human rights – except when it comes to Israel.
> 
> In a response to a report Monday that President Obama intends to grant clemency to nonviolent drug offenders, Deek called on the president to release "Political Prisoners" including convicted terrorist financiers and a convicted killer.
> 
> ....
> 
> The "Holy Land Five" refers to five officials from the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation who were convicted in 2008 of illegally transferring over $12 million to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization committed to attacking Israeli civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely folks these pious moslems.


Holy land Foundation sham trial.

From your link:

*Hamas*
[NDTX] Richardson, Texas-based Muslim charity indicted, along with several of the group's leaders, for funneling millions of dollars to the terrorist group Hamas. The judge declared a mistrial: *The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on any count with respect to five defendants;* with respect to one defendant, Mohammad El-Mezain, the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on count one which charged him with conspiracy to provide material support and resources to Hamas. In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011.

Getting no convictions they made up a brand new batch of lies and retried.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Lamis Deek'isms.
> 
> July 2015.
> 
> It's always interesting to see how many of the Islamic terrorist "rights advocates" so often do their advocating from the comforts and safety of the _Great Satan_ ™ they're so quick to vilify.
> 
> More Blind Hate Toward Israel From a CAIR Official
> 
> Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY), is a self-described "Human Rights Advocate" dedicated to promoting justice and human rights – except when it comes to Israel.
> 
> In a response to a report Monday that President Obama intends to grant clemency to nonviolent drug offenders, Deek called on the president to release "Political Prisoners" including convicted terrorist financiers and a convicted killer.
> 
> ....
> 
> The "Holy Land Five" refers to five officials from the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation who were convicted in 2008 of illegally transferring over $12 million to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization committed to attacking Israeli civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely folks these pious moslems.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy land Foundation sham trial.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> *Hamas*
> [NDTX] Richardson, Texas-based Muslim charity indicted, along with several of the group's leaders, for funneling millions of dollars to the terrorist group Hamas. The judge declared a mistrial: *The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on any count with respect to five defendants;* with respect to one defendant, Mohammad El-Mezain, the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on count one which charged him with conspiracy to provide material support and resources to Hamas. In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011.
> 
> Getting no convictions they made up a brand new batch of lies and retried.
Click to expand...


From the link:

"In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011."


Isn't that a shame. Your Islamic terrorist heroes were given the benefit of a kuffar jury trial. That's a bit different than a tribal elder or mullah presiding over the decision of guilt or innocence.

You might want to consider floating a conspiracy theory that all of the jurors were _Zionist Entities_™


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the CAIR terrorists?
> 
> Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.
> 
> *Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
> *IPT News
> 
> Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
> *
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> * Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).
> 
> The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. _
> 
> 
> 
> A hit piece on Lamis Deek by an Islamophobia hate site.
> 
> WOW what a surprise.
> 
> A regular over the years on Fox News, Steven Emerson, is a well known tool in the American Zionist establishment, beloved by AIPAC and other such lobby/advocacy organizations. Before his most recent idiocy, Emerson’s most famous gaffe was blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on Muslims, saying things like, _“Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centres of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East.”_
> 
> Over the years Emerson has made millions from the counter-terrorism/Islamophobia industries (check out: million$$$ of reasons to promote hate and suspicion of Muslims). He has made several movies depicting Muslim Americans as a Fifth Column. His website, *The Investigative Project on Terrorism* is known to publish articles promoting racism and Islamophobia.
> 
> In this context it becomes understandable why Emerson would make a complete and utter ass out of himself by claiming that the English city of Birmingham was “totally Muslim,” and that there are “no-go areas” all over the place. This got all of England (and the world) laughing at him, with the satirical Twitter hashtag #FoxNewsFacts trending:
> 
> Phony Terrorism Expert “Steven Emerson” Manages To Get All Of England Laughing At Him​----------------------------
> *David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'*
> 
> An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said
> 
> The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.
> 
> David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​
Click to expand...









And take it from someone who lives in the UK we have plenty of muslim no-go areas, with Tower Hamlets being the best known. try looking on google for it and find out just how bad it is


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the CAIR terrorists?
> 
> Moslem girl - an expression of Islamism.
> 
> *Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?*
> *IPT News
> 
> Did We Hit a Nerve, Ms. Deek?
> *
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> * Last week, we showcased some pretty rabid, hateful rhetoric posted on social media by Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY).
> 
> The story showed how Deek's blind hate for Israel is consistent with many of her CAIR colleagues, including some who equate the marauding, beheading barbarians of the Islamic State terrorist group with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It featured a picture reposted on Deek's Facebook page last August, glorifying the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group's Al-Quds Brigades. _
> 
> 
> 
> A hit piece on Lamis Deek by an Islamophobia hate site.
> 
> WOW what a surprise.
> 
> A regular over the years on Fox News, Steven Emerson, is a well known tool in the American Zionist establishment, beloved by AIPAC and other such lobby/advocacy organizations. Before his most recent idiocy, Emerson’s most famous gaffe was blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on Muslims, saying things like, _“Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centres of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East.”_
> 
> Over the years Emerson has made millions from the counter-terrorism/Islamophobia industries (check out: million$$$ of reasons to promote hate and suspicion of Muslims). He has made several movies depicting Muslim Americans as a Fifth Column. His website, *The Investigative Project on Terrorism* is known to publish articles promoting racism and Islamophobia.
> 
> In this context it becomes understandable why Emerson would make a complete and utter ass out of himself by claiming that the English city of Birmingham was “totally Muslim,” and that there are “no-go areas” all over the place. This got all of England (and the world) laughing at him, with the satirical Twitter hashtag #FoxNewsFacts trending:
> 
> Phony Terrorism Expert “Steven Emerson” Manages To Get All Of England Laughing At Him​----------------------------
> *David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'*
> 
> An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said
> 
> The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.
> 
> David Cameron: US terror 'expert' Steve Emerson is a 'complete idiot'​
Click to expand...








And the real people that live in the UK know the truth, and we say that Birmingham is mostly no go because of the muslim gangs. We have plenty of other places but the best known are places like Tower Hamlets.

The reason people dont go is because of the muslims


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>








 The headline says it all     Aljazeera which means islamonazi propaganda and lies


----------



## Hollie

*Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*

*More Lamis Deek'isms*

_Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.

Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
_
“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter.


_
It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Lamis Deek'isms.
> 
> July 2015.
> 
> It's always interesting to see how many of the Islamic terrorist "rights advocates" so often do their advocating from the comforts and safety of the _Great Satan_ ™ they're so quick to vilify.
> 
> More Blind Hate Toward Israel From a CAIR Official
> 
> Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY), is a self-described "Human Rights Advocate" dedicated to promoting justice and human rights – except when it comes to Israel.
> 
> In a response to a report Monday that President Obama intends to grant clemency to nonviolent drug offenders, Deek called on the president to release "Political Prisoners" including convicted terrorist financiers and a convicted killer.
> 
> ....
> 
> The "Holy Land Five" refers to five officials from the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation who were convicted in 2008 of illegally transferring over $12 million to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization committed to attacking Israeli civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely folks these pious moslems.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy land Foundation sham trial.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> *Hamas*
> [NDTX] Richardson, Texas-based Muslim charity indicted, along with several of the group's leaders, for funneling millions of dollars to the terrorist group Hamas. The judge declared a mistrial: *The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on any count with respect to five defendants;* with respect to one defendant, Mohammad El-Mezain, the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on count one which charged him with conspiracy to provide material support and resources to Hamas. In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011.
> 
> Getting no convictions they made up a brand new batch of lies and retried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the link:
> 
> "In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011."
> 
> 
> Isn't that a shame. Your Islamic terrorist heroes were given the benefit of a kuffar jury trial. That's a bit different than a tribal elder or mullah presiding over the decision of guilt or innocence.
> 
> You might want to consider floating a conspiracy theory that all of the jurors were _Zionist Entities_™
Click to expand...

Indeed, the new batch of lies worked.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



U.S. Department of Justice

*Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
*Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Lamis Deek'isms.
> 
> July 2015.
> 
> It's always interesting to see how many of the Islamic terrorist "rights advocates" so often do their advocating from the comforts and safety of the _Great Satan_ ™ they're so quick to vilify.
> 
> More Blind Hate Toward Israel From a CAIR Official
> 
> Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY), is a self-described "Human Rights Advocate" dedicated to promoting justice and human rights – except when it comes to Israel.
> 
> In a response to a report Monday that President Obama intends to grant clemency to nonviolent drug offenders, Deek called on the president to release "Political Prisoners" including convicted terrorist financiers and a convicted killer.
> 
> ....
> 
> The "Holy Land Five" refers to five officials from the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation who were convicted in 2008 of illegally transferring over $12 million to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization committed to attacking Israeli civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely folks these pious moslems.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy land Foundation sham trial.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> *Hamas*
> [NDTX] Richardson, Texas-based Muslim charity indicted, along with several of the group's leaders, for funneling millions of dollars to the terrorist group Hamas. The judge declared a mistrial: *The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on any count with respect to five defendants;* with respect to one defendant, Mohammad El-Mezain, the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on count one which charged him with conspiracy to provide material support and resources to Hamas. In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011.
> 
> Getting no convictions they made up a brand new batch of lies and retried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the link:
> 
> "In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011."
> 
> 
> Isn't that a shame. Your Islamic terrorist heroes were given the benefit of a kuffar jury trial. That's a bit different than a tribal elder or mullah presiding over the decision of guilt or innocence.
> 
> You might want to consider floating a conspiracy theory that all of the jurors were _Zionist Entities_™
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the new batch of lies worked.
Click to expand...


Indeed, your retreat to silly conspiracy theories was as predictable as your Pom Pom flailing for Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ​No, its just the standard Israeli bullshit.



Its absolutely fascinating that she discusses labels and how they are used to discriminate and assign rights to a peoples (or remove rights from a peoples) while constantly using the label "Zionist" to differentiate between, you know, nice, normal Jews and the evil Jews who are supremacists and aim to take over the world.

In case that isn't perfectly clear, I'm calling her a hypocrite.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​No, its just the standard Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its absolutely fascinating that she discusses labels and how they are used to discriminate and assign rights to a peoples (or remove rights from a peoples) while constantly using the label "Zionist" to differentiate between, you know, nice, normal Jews and the evil Jews who are supremacists and aim to take over the world.
> 
> In case that isn't perfectly clear, I'm calling her a hypocrite.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't know. I see the lovely, screeching, shrill Lamis Deek as a consistent loon in view of her saliva-slinging tirades.


----------



## Shusha

That last one was twenty minutes of her screeching about absolutely nothing, rambling on about this or that, with absolutely no coherency or point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.


She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.


Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
Click to expand...


U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?

The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*

The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"

Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
Click to expand...


Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.


----------



## Shusha

Oh, her Twitter feed is illuminating.  She thinks shooting at innocent civilians is honorable.  Justified self-defense.  Something to be celebrated as noble resistance against evil.  She says calling such an action an "attack" is false propaganda. 

Her idea of "doing something right" is deeply flawed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
Click to expand...

For people who want to learn something.

The Holy Land Foundation Case:
The Collapse of American Justice
Nancy Hollander

Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”

This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
To this day none are on the list.

http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​

I know that is not you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
Click to expand...


Infidel justice obviously causes you tremendous angst. That your Islamic terrorist heroes went to jail is obviously infuriating to you.

Send an email to Lamis Deek and advise her of your outrage. Or, send your Islamic terrorist heroes enjoying their stay at the kuffar hoosegow a copy of the linked article.





N*o Cash for Terror*
Convictions Returned in Holy Land Case

Holy Land Foundation Convictions


11/25/08

*




*
Holy Land Foundation office in the Dallas, Texas suburb of Richardson in 2001.
The FBI’s fight against terrorism funding paid a big dividend yesterday when five former leaders of a U.S.-based Muslim charity were convicted of funneling more than $12 million to the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.

Guilty verdicts on all 108 counts against the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development were announced in federal court in Dallas, Texas, representing the largest victory against terrorist financing in the U.S. since the 9/11 attacks.

“For many years, the Holy Land Foundation used the guise of charity to raise and funnel millions of dollars to the infrastructure of the Hamas terror organization,” said Patrick Rowan, Assistant Attorney General for National Security. “This prosecution demonstrates our resolve to ensure that humanitarian relief efforts are not used as a mechanism to disguise and enable support for terrorist groups.”

The FBI first got involved in the Holy Land case nearly 15 years ago. In 1994, we began looking into the organization’s financial ties to Hamas. During the investigation, our agents traveled the globe to conduct more than 100 interviews, to sort through hundreds of boxes of documents (including many Arabic documents), to view hundreds of video and audio tapes in Arabic, and to review thousands of pages of bank records.

Noting that the FBI’s top investigative priority is counterterrorism, Robert E. Casey, Special Agent in Charge of our Dallas office, applauded yesterday’s verdicts and put terrorists on notice: “The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by actively investigating all forms of terrorist threats, whether that threat manifests itself in the planning or execution of a violent terrorist act or other crimes that provide support to terrorist organizations.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Infidel justice obviously causes you tremendous angst. That your Islamic terrorist heroes went to jail is obviously infuriating to you.
> 
> Send an email to Lamis Deek and advise her of your outrage. Or, send your Islamic terrorist heroes enjoying their stay at the kuffar hoosegow a copy of the linked article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N*o Cash for Terror*
> Convictions Returned in Holy Land Case
> 
> Holy Land Foundation Convictions
> 
> 
> 11/25/08
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Holy Land Foundation office in the Dallas, Texas suburb of Richardson in 2001.
> The FBI’s fight against terrorism funding paid a big dividend yesterday when five former leaders of a U.S.-based Muslim charity were convicted of funneling more than $12 million to the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.
> 
> Guilty verdicts on all 108 counts against the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development were announced in federal court in Dallas, Texas, representing the largest victory against terrorist financing in the U.S. since the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> “For many years, the Holy Land Foundation used the guise of charity to raise and funnel millions of dollars to the infrastructure of the Hamas terror organization,” said Patrick Rowan, Assistant Attorney General for National Security. “This prosecution demonstrates our resolve to ensure that humanitarian relief efforts are not used as a mechanism to disguise and enable support for terrorist groups.”
> 
> The FBI first got involved in the Holy Land case nearly 15 years ago. In 1994, we began looking into the organization’s financial ties to Hamas. During the investigation, our agents traveled the globe to conduct more than 100 interviews, to sort through hundreds of boxes of documents (including many Arabic documents), to view hundreds of video and audio tapes in Arabic, and to review thousands of pages of bank records.
> 
> Noting that the FBI’s top investigative priority is counterterrorism, Robert E. Casey, Special Agent in Charge of our Dallas office, applauded yesterday’s verdicts and put terrorists on notice: “The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by actively investigating all forms of terrorist threats, whether that threat manifests itself in the planning or execution of a violent terrorist act or other crimes that provide support to terrorist organizations.”
Click to expand...

“The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by lying our asses off.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Infidel justice obviously causes you tremendous angst. That your Islamic terrorist heroes went to jail is obviously infuriating to you.
> 
> Send an email to Lamis Deek and advise her of your outrage. Or, send your Islamic terrorist heroes enjoying their stay at the kuffar hoosegow a copy of the linked article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N*o Cash for Terror*
> Convictions Returned in Holy Land Case
> 
> Holy Land Foundation Convictions
> 
> 
> 11/25/08
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Holy Land Foundation office in the Dallas, Texas suburb of Richardson in 2001.
> The FBI’s fight against terrorism funding paid a big dividend yesterday when five former leaders of a U.S.-based Muslim charity were convicted of funneling more than $12 million to the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.
> 
> Guilty verdicts on all 108 counts against the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development were announced in federal court in Dallas, Texas, representing the largest victory against terrorist financing in the U.S. since the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> “For many years, the Holy Land Foundation used the guise of charity to raise and funnel millions of dollars to the infrastructure of the Hamas terror organization,” said Patrick Rowan, Assistant Attorney General for National Security. “This prosecution demonstrates our resolve to ensure that humanitarian relief efforts are not used as a mechanism to disguise and enable support for terrorist groups.”
> 
> The FBI first got involved in the Holy Land case nearly 15 years ago. In 1994, we began looking into the organization’s financial ties to Hamas. During the investigation, our agents traveled the globe to conduct more than 100 interviews, to sort through hundreds of boxes of documents (including many Arabic documents), to view hundreds of video and audio tapes in Arabic, and to review thousands of pages of bank records.
> 
> Noting that the FBI’s top investigative priority is counterterrorism, Robert E. Casey, Special Agent in Charge of our Dallas office, applauded yesterday’s verdicts and put terrorists on notice: “The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by actively investigating all forms of terrorist threats, whether that threat manifests itself in the planning or execution of a violent terrorist act or other crimes that provide support to terrorist organizations.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by lying our asses off.
Click to expand...


Lamis Deek laughs at your _gee-had of none. _


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?


General arabs from the hood, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Shusha said:


> Oh, her Twitter feed is illuminating.  She thinks shooting at innocent civilians is honorable.  Justified self-defense.  Something to be celebrated as noble resistance against evil.  She says calling such an action an "attack" is false propaganda.
> Her idea of "doing something right" is deeply flawed.


An obviously mentally disturbed individual she is.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Lamis Deek'isms.
> 
> July 2015.
> 
> It's always interesting to see how many of the Islamic terrorist "rights advocates" so often do their advocating from the comforts and safety of the _Great Satan_ ™ they're so quick to vilify.
> 
> More Blind Hate Toward Israel From a CAIR Official
> 
> Lamis Deek, a lawyer and board member for the Council on American-Islamic Relations-New York (CAIR-NY), is a self-described "Human Rights Advocate" dedicated to promoting justice and human rights – except when it comes to Israel.
> 
> In a response to a report Monday that President Obama intends to grant clemency to nonviolent drug offenders, Deek called on the president to release "Political Prisoners" including convicted terrorist financiers and a convicted killer.
> 
> ....
> 
> The "Holy Land Five" refers to five officials from the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation who were convicted in 2008 of illegally transferring over $12 million to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization committed to attacking Israeli civilians and the destruction of the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely folks these pious moslems.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy land Foundation sham trial.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> *Hamas*
> [NDTX] Richardson, Texas-based Muslim charity indicted, along with several of the group's leaders, for funneling millions of dollars to the terrorist group Hamas. The judge declared a mistrial: *The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on any count with respect to five defendants;* with respect to one defendant, Mohammad El-Mezain, the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on count one which charged him with conspiracy to provide material support and resources to Hamas. In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011.
> 
> Getting no convictions they made up a brand new batch of lies and retried.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the link:
> 
> "In the second trial in 2008 jurors found all the defendants guilty on all counts of helping finance terrorism. A fifth circuit judicial panel upheld the convictions against HLF and its senior leaders in December 2011."
> 
> 
> Isn't that a shame. Your Islamic terrorist heroes were given the benefit of a kuffar jury trial. That's a bit different than a tribal elder or mullah presiding over the decision of guilt or innocence.
> 
> You might want to consider floating a conspiracy theory that all of the jurors were _Zionist Entities_™
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the new batch of lies worked.
Click to expand...








 No the evidence was accepted as fact and the defense as the LIES


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
Click to expand...








 You are not worried about BDS policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank are you. All you seem to care about is sliming the Jews without any evidence of what you claim is happening. Still waiting for link that show palestine was a nation before the LoN took over the former Ottoman Empire. Or the International laws that make Israel an illegal state


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
Click to expand...







 They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Infidel justice obviously causes you tremendous angst. That your Islamic terrorist heroes went to jail is obviously infuriating to you.
> 
> Send an email to Lamis Deek and advise her of your outrage. Or, send your Islamic terrorist heroes enjoying their stay at the kuffar hoosegow a copy of the linked article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N*o Cash for Terror*
> Convictions Returned in Holy Land Case
> 
> Holy Land Foundation Convictions
> 
> 
> 11/25/08
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Holy Land Foundation office in the Dallas, Texas suburb of Richardson in 2001.
> The FBI’s fight against terrorism funding paid a big dividend yesterday when five former leaders of a U.S.-based Muslim charity were convicted of funneling more than $12 million to the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.
> 
> Guilty verdicts on all 108 counts against the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development were announced in federal court in Dallas, Texas, representing the largest victory against terrorist financing in the U.S. since the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> “For many years, the Holy Land Foundation used the guise of charity to raise and funnel millions of dollars to the infrastructure of the Hamas terror organization,” said Patrick Rowan, Assistant Attorney General for National Security. “This prosecution demonstrates our resolve to ensure that humanitarian relief efforts are not used as a mechanism to disguise and enable support for terrorist groups.”
> 
> The FBI first got involved in the Holy Land case nearly 15 years ago. In 1994, we began looking into the organization’s financial ties to Hamas. During the investigation, our agents traveled the globe to conduct more than 100 interviews, to sort through hundreds of boxes of documents (including many Arabic documents), to view hundreds of video and audio tapes in Arabic, and to review thousands of pages of bank records.
> 
> Noting that the FBI’s top investigative priority is counterterrorism, Robert E. Casey, Special Agent in Charge of our Dallas office, applauded yesterday’s verdicts and put terrorists on notice: “The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by actively investigating all forms of terrorist threats, whether that threat manifests itself in the planning or execution of a violent terrorist act or other crimes that provide support to terrorist organizations.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “The FBI will continue to keep the country safe by lying our asses off.
Click to expand...









 If that is what it takes to protect Americans from Nazi scum like you I applaud their efforts. All terrorists and terrorist supporters should be given a choice to die by their own hand or be executed and disposed of by the state


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
Click to expand...

Not true. The case was based on bullshit.

http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
Click to expand...


The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.

Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
Click to expand...

Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.

Stupid is your goal in life.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> 
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
Click to expand...


I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
_
You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
Click to expand...

So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
Click to expand...

So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity*
> 
> *More Lamis Deek'isms*
> 
> _Blind Hate Drives Islamists to Absurdity - Breitbart_.
> 
> Earlier this month, many of those same groups, [_the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), and garnered support from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and even a group of 124 feminist academics - ed.] _criticized the deportation of Sami Al-Arian, a former tenured professor at the University of South Florida who secretly served as a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s board of directors. He left for Turkey last Wednesday after agreeing in a 2006 plea agreement to be deported for conspiring to provide services to the terrorist group.
> 
> _“A great leader is exiled,” Lamis Deek, an attorney and board member for CAIR’s New York chapter, wrote on Twitter._
> 
> 
> 
> It's just... predictable, how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers find accolades such as "great leader" for Islamic terrorist misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> She must be doing something right. The lying sack of shit propagandists are sliming her.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice
> 
> *Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case*
> *Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> U.S. Department of Justice??? Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The Bush administration's "war on terror" paraded a feather in its tattered cap with the Holy Land Foundation convictions delivered last week. *Most observers accurately characterised this legal charade as a witch hunt, *using Muslims and Arabs, specifically Palestinians, as its targets. In doing so the administration shamelessly abuses to advance its failed security measures and pro-Israel policy initiatives that systematically punishes Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Indeed, the Bush administration suffered a humiliation in 2007 when its first prosecution against HLF ended in a mistrial, with the jurors deadlocked over the major counts. A juror from the 2007 trial * said the government "kept showing us blown-up buses and they kept showing us little kids in bomb belts reenacting Hamas leaders … it had nothing to do with the actual charges. It had nothing to do with the defendants."*
> 
> The prosecution continued this strategy the second time around. Moreno explained to me that *the US government "decided to use as much evidence of violence as they could get away with to inflame and scare the jury." *She continued: "The government conceded that my client, Ghassan Elashi, nor any of the other gentlemen, ever participated in any violence. There was not a single phone call or a scrap of evidence that showed Elashi supported violence; but there was evidence that he, along with all Palestinians, opposed the brutal Israeli occupation [of West Bank and Gaza.]"
> 
> Wajahat Ali: Abusing a charity to distract from US failings against the real terrorists​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
Click to expand...








Read the report again as it is not a legal document and is just one persons view of the situation. It carries no more weight that my word on any subject, or yours for that matter, and is why your posts are seen as comical by everyone.

The facts were proven in a court of law and if they thought they could produce evidence to the contrary the lawyers would have went for a re trial. All they have is these reports that might get support to help offset the costs of a new trial, but I would not hold my breath waiting


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
Click to expand...







 Yes if they are known to be hardened criminals that force the people to protect them. Unlike you I dont want it used to silence the dissenters


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even the *Bolded Text* won't help your *Conspiracy Theories*.
> 
> 
> 
> For people who want to learn something.
> 
> The Holy Land Foundation Case:
> The Collapse of American Justice
> Nancy Hollander
> 
> Of the specific zakat committees that Holy Land contributed to, not
> one, to this date, now several years after the Holy Land convictions, has
> ever been on a designated terrorist list in the U.S. and this is important to
> understand because the designation process serves two critical functions.
> The designation process is primarily handled through the Office of Foreign
> Assets Control for the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The head of that
> office explained at one time, and I will quote, that the designation of an
> entity, serves two critical functions: it “alert the world to [its] true
> nature” and “cut it off from the U.S. financial system.”
> 
> This list includes people and entities that the U.S. government believes
> to be “owned or controlled by, or to act for on behalf of Hamas.” Several
> Hamas officials appeared on the list starting in 1995, but not a single one of
> the zakat committees that the Holy Land ever gave money to was on the list.
> To this day none are on the list.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj​
> 
> I know that is not you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were raising money for terrorism, end of story. They knew who was receiving every penny they donated, and that it was all going to fund terrorist attacks. The Lawyers problem is her name was not enough to get them of, and so became a failure on her part to get the "right" sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
Click to expand...









 Did you, or did you only read the islamonazi propaganda version that missed out the damning evidence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The case was based on bullshit.
> 
> http://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=crsj
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
Click to expand...

I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
Click to expand...


It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
Click to expand...

All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.

The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The convictions stand. What a shame that the trial by jury was processed in the _Great Satan_ ™. How sad for you that we in kafir'istan don't have moments long trial by Islamic terrorist goons with AK-47.'s who put you up against a wall and volley fire.
> 
> Write a strongly worded email to your mullah.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the history of the case? Of course not.
> 
> Stupid is your goal in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
Click to expand...








 Because you only read one side of the story, like you do with everything. Only one side tells the truth about the nation of palestine, and that happens to be a LYING POS islamonazi terrorist supporter


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
Click to expand...








 You mean like hamas, fatah and islamic jihad. That is were the monies went to that they raised proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law. The defense did not have a big enough shovel to send it back, or the strength to wield anything but a kids toy. They lost the case end of story, and that is the end of it


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand you're angry and frustrated because kuffar justice put the _had _in Islamic terrorist gee-had_.
> _
> You have a simpleton's view of the world around you. In the same way you endlessly cut and paste YouTube videos with the slack-jawed view that_ "I saw it on YouTube so it must be true", _you similarly find an opinion piece with regard to the trial of your islamic terrorist heroes and expect everyone so simply accept your cutting and pasting as true.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
Click to expand...

You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with the government lying to put people in jail?
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
Click to expand...

The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.

What facts am I missing?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> 
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
Click to expand...

From the link I supplied earlier:

"Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."

I understood that facts are items you selectively ignore when they negatively affect your islamic terrorist heroes, but why would you expect others to do that?


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are OK with not understanding the trial circumstances?
> 
> 
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
Click to expand...









 The ones that show they did give aid to designated terrorist organisations, whether directly or indirectly does not matter the crime was committed. Just because islamonazi propagandists say they didnt does not make it a fact


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do. It was an obvious sham when it was happening. It looks the same now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the link I supplied earlier:
> 
> "Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."
> 
> I understood that facts are items you selectively ignore when they negatively affect your islamic terrorist heroes, but why would you expect others to do that?
Click to expand...

Nice deflection. You provided no facts.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> 
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the link I supplied earlier:
> 
> "Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."
> 
> I understood that facts are items you selectively ignore when they negatively affect your islamic terrorist heroes, but why would you expect others to do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You provided no facts.
Click to expand...


The facts remain, "Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."

Nice coma. If you emerge from your stupor, the facts delineated for you will still be facts..


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## montelatici

Sounds familiar, they are called kangaroo courts.

"An Iranian-American held in Tehran has reportedly been sentenced to 18 years in prison for "collaboration with a hostile government", yet another dual national convicted in a secret trial since Iran's nuclear deal with world powers.

The sentence handed down to Robin Shahini, a 46-year-old graduate student who lives in San Diego, California, is the harshest yet for those detained in what analysts believe is a plan to use them as bargaining chips in future negotiations."


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sounds familiar, they are called kangaroo courts.
> 
> "An Iranian-American held in Tehran has reportedly been sentenced to 18 years in prison for "collaboration with a hostile government", yet another dual national convicted in a secret trial since Iran's nuclear deal with world powers.
> 
> The sentence handed down to Robin Shahini, a 46-year-old graduate student who lives in San Diego, California, is the harshest yet for those detained in what analysts believe is a plan to use them as bargaining chips in future negotiations."



Sounds familiar, your profound ignorance.

Here in the _Great Satan_™, we have a thing called due process whereby procedures such as discovery, depositions, presentation of evidence and trial by jury are a part of trial. 

Ask the mullah at your madrassah during obligatory "Death to Kuffar" chants if sharia has anything similar.


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## montelatici

Politically biased legal judgements are evident everywhere, including the United States.  How many Muslims do you figure were on the jury in the U.S. case?  If it was a jury trial.


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Politically biased legal judgements are evident everywhere, including the United States.  How many Muslims do you figure were on the jury in the U.S. case?  If it was a jury trial.


As I thought, you have nothing to refute the facts of the case. I can understand your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended but that's your issue to deal with.


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## montelatici

What islmo sensibilities?  I despise Islam.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you define 'sham" as anything that places accountability on your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> 
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the link I supplied earlier:
> 
> "Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."
> 
> I understood that facts are items you selectively ignore when they negatively affect your islamic terrorist heroes, but why would you expect others to do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You provided no facts.
Click to expand...







 So trial transcripts are not facts now, or only those that go against the muslims ?


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> What islmo sensibilities?  I despise Islam.









 Not looking at your posts supporting and defending their actions, up to and including mass murder of children because you misunderstand a UN resolution


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## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Politically biased legal judgements are evident everywhere, including the United States.  How many Muslims do you figure were on the jury in the U.S. case?  If it was a jury trial.










 How many would have given an impartial verdict, bearing in mind they are not allowed to pass judgement on another muslim in an infidel court


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Politically biased legal judgements are evident everywhere, including the United States.  How many Muslims do you figure were on the jury in the U.S. case?  If it was a jury trial.


How many moslems _should have_ been on the jury in the US case? I wasn't aware that Moslem'ness was a factor in jury selection for cases involving Moslem terrorism. 

Discuss that with the prayer leader at your madrassah.


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## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of the money they gave went to charities that were not on the black list. In fact they gave to the same places that the US gave to through USAID.
> 
> The prosecutor shoveled shit and got the jury to buy it.
> 
> 
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the link I supplied earlier:
> 
> "Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."
> 
> I understood that facts are items you selectively ignore when they negatively affect your islamic terrorist heroes, but why would you expect others to do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You provided no facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So trial transcripts are not facts now, or only those that go against the muslims ?
Click to expand...

What trial transcripts?

What "facts" are you talking about.


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## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should educate on the facts of the case. Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is expected, just dismissed as such.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that they did not give aid to any designated terrorist organization.
> 
> What facts am I missing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the link I supplied earlier:
> 
> "Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization."
> 
> I understood that facts are items you selectively ignore when they negatively affect your islamic terrorist heroes, but why would you expect others to do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You provided no facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So trial transcripts are not facts now, or only those that go against the muslims ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What trial transcripts?
> 
> What "facts" are you talking about.
Click to expand...






Read the above and see, it is there for anyone with two brain cells to read it. It clearly says that the defendants had been found guilty of the crime of providing material support to hamas a known and designated terrorist organisation


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.

Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.






*EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*





​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
•  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
•  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
•  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:

§  Incorporate the territory.
§  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
§  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

While the native people in any colonial project usually have an inferior power position with respect to violent colonial invaders, in this case violent zionist colonial invaders(VCZIs), the native people  have a superior position morally and legally.

Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers.  

I don't see any other viable options.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> While the native people in any colonial project usually have an inferior power position with respect to violent colonial invaders, in this case violent zionist colonial invaders(VCZIs), the native people  have a superior position morally and legally.
> 
> Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers.
> 
> I don't see any other viable options.



Your continued misrepresentation of some "invasion" you claim happened suggests you're little more than just another
islamo-propagandist


----------



## Dogmaphobe

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.




 Just as it is impossible to discuss carbon dating with an ignorant fundamentalist who thinks the world is only 6000 years old.

 The combination of utter stupidity, an extreme herd instinct and an unquestioning nature allows for no rational discourse. 

 The best way to understand rabid Pallywood supporters is by understanding the psychology of cults, and the demented individuals who place the promotion of Arab interests as the centerpiece of their lives should be treated as members of a cult too far gone for any reasonable outcome.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the native people in any colonial project usually have an inferior power position with respect to violent colonial invaders, in this case violent zionist colonial invaders(VCZIs), the native people  have a superior position morally and legally.
> 
> Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers.
> 
> I don't see any other viable options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your continued misrepresentation of some "invasion" you claim happened suggests you're little more than just another
> islamo-propagandist
Click to expand...


What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?  Unless you are afflicted with a severe case of cognizant dissonance, it cannot be denied that it was a de facto invasion. But, if you have another name for it please share.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the native people in any colonial project usually have an inferior power position with respect to violent colonial invaders, in this case violent zionist colonial invaders(VCZIs), the native people  have a superior position morally and legally.
> 
> Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers.
> 
> I don't see any other viable options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your continued misrepresentation of some "invasion" you claim happened suggests you're little more than just another
> islamo-propagandist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?  Unless you are afflicted with a severe case of cognizant dissonance, it cannot be denied that it was a de facto invasion. But, if you have another name for it please share.
Click to expand...

An appropriate description for your "cognizant dissonance" would otherwise be profound ignorance. This has all been addressed before so your inability to fathom some pretty simple concepts is concerning. Your cutting and pasting of the same slogans and clichés is really comical. It reinforces the impression that you're simply a failed propagandist.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> While the native people in any colonial project usually have an inferior power position with respect to violent colonial invaders, in this case violent zionist colonial invaders(VCZIs), the native people  have a superior position morally and legally.
> 
> Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers.
> 
> I don't see any other viable options.








 LIAR     The arab muslims were not stopped from declaring a state in 1988, and they are the ones that have stopped themselves from taking the last steps towards full statehood and self determination. They know they will lose UNWRA the day they do so, and have to accept censure by the UN every time they resort to violence against Israel and/or the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the native people in any colonial project usually have an inferior power position with respect to violent colonial invaders, in this case violent zionist colonial invaders(VCZIs), the native people  have a superior position morally and legally.
> 
> Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers.
> 
> I don't see any other viable options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your continued misrepresentation of some "invasion" you claim happened suggests you're little more than just another
> islamo-propagandist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?  Unless you are afflicted with a severe case of cognizant dissonance, it cannot be denied that it was a de facto invasion. But, if you have another name for it please share.
Click to expand...







 It is called migration, and in this case the Jews were invited by the lands legal owners. The arab muslims invaded and tried to colonise the land illegally and by force, sent by the arab league for this very purpose. Historical records say this is fact, and only morons that support islamonazi terrorism say otherwise.


----------



## montelatici

Well, fantasists such as you with little education,  as can be discerned by your inarticulate writing style, can never accept the facts or simple definitions.  That is why it is clear that you are suffering under a severe case of cognizant dissonance. In other words, you are delusional for not accepting the fact that people from one place going to another place with the intent to subjugate the native people and take over the levers of power, is an invasion.  Full stop.

In any case, we are not discussing the invasion and subjugation of the native people here,  we are discussing the post-invasion/colonization situation and the possible solutions. 

I stated that:

"Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers."

And concluded that I did not see other options.  If you have another viable option present it.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Well, fantasists such as you with little education,  as can be discerned by your inarticulate writing style, can never accept the facts or simple definitions.  That is why it is clear that you are suffering under a severe case of cognizant dissonance. In other words, you are delusional for not accepting the fact that people from one place going to another place with the intent to subjugate the native people and take over the levers of power, is an invasion.  Full stop.
> 
> In any case, we are not discussing the invasion and subjugation of the native people here,  we are discussing the post-invasion/colonization situation and the possible solutions.
> 
> I stated that:
> 
> "Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers."
> 
> And concluded that I did not see other options.  If you have another viable option present it.


You're angry and emotive and left with nothing to bolster your failed argument. Your silly "invasion" slogan does nothing but reinforce your self-inflicted ignorance.


----------



## Hollie

It truly is a shame that a sinister cult personality can come to define a collection of people such as Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal'istanians. In no other society is mass murder, the infliction of death and suffering and willful suicide in the name of a "religion" given such glorification.


New PA school named after mastermind of Munich Olympics massacre - PMW Bulletins





PMW Bulletins
New PA school named after mastermind of Munich Olympics massacre

New PA school
named for mastermind 
of Munich Olympics massacre

PA official on importance of school's name:
"To commemorate the memory of this great national fighter"

School in West Bank named after Salah Khalaf, head of Black September terror group. Attacks he planned include murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics and murder of 2 American diplomats in Sudan

PA Ministry of Education is responsible for naming schools

This is the 4th PA school named after terrorist Salah Khalaf

PMW has written to the European Union which funds the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Education to condition its funding on the PA changing the names of all schools named after terrorists


----------



## montelatici

My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts. 

However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.

Do you see any other solution?


----------



## montelatici

The convicted terrorist Menachem Begin and other Zionist murderers have streets, schools and other sites named after them.  Why are you complaining?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts.
> 
> However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.
> 
> Do you see any other solution?


I see you're retreating from your silly "invasion" slogans, at least temporarily. Your simple minded reiteration of such silly slogans only serves to weaken your otherwise, ill considered and inarticulate sentence structuring around islamist propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The convicted terrorist Menachem Begin and other Zionist murderers have streets, schools and other sites named after them.  Why are you complaining?
> 
> View attachment 95352


I just find it remarkable that you glorify Islamic terrorists.


----------



## montelatici

All terrorists are evil, of whatever religion.

I just find it remarkable that you glorify Jewish terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> All terrorists are evil, of whatever religion.
> 
> I just find it remarkable that you glorify Jewish terrorists.


I wasn't aware I did that. Did that vision come to you during one of your comatose events?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts.
> 
> However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.
> 
> Do you see any other solution?
> 
> 
> 
> I see you're retreating from your silly "invasion" slogans, at least temporarily. Your simple minded reiteration of such silly slogans only serves to weaken your otherwise, ill considered and inarticulate sentence structuring around islamist propaganda.
Click to expand...


Again, let's set aside your  responses that are now taking the tack of repeating what I write.  Very childish, by the way.

Do you see other post-invasion solutions beyond ethnic cleansing, genocide or integration of the native people? If you don't have an answer, there is no need to respond.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts.
> 
> However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.
> 
> Do you see any other solution?
> 
> 
> 
> I see you're retreating from your silly "invasion" slogans, at least temporarily. Your simple minded reiteration of such silly slogans only serves to weaken your otherwise, ill considered and inarticulate sentence structuring around islamist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, let's set aside your  responses that are now taking the tack of repeating what I write.  Very childish, by the way.
> 
> Do you see other post-invasion solutions beyond ethnic cleansing, genocide or integration of the native people? If you don't have an answer, there is no need to respond.
Click to expand...

Well actually, you're sidestepping around questions and comments you are unable to address and that leaves you with no options but to parrot my earlier posts. It's in poor form to dance around that which you're too befuddled to address.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Well, fantasists such as you with little education,  as can be discerned by your inarticulate writing style, can never accept the facts or simple definitions.  That is why it is clear that you are suffering under a severe case of cognizant dissonance. In other words, you are delusional for not accepting the fact that people from one place going to another place with the intent to subjugate the native people and take over the levers of power, is an invasion.  Full stop.
> 
> In any case, we are not discussing the invasion and subjugation of the native people here,  we are discussing the post-invasion/colonization situation and the possible solutions.
> 
> I stated that:
> 
> "Given that the VCZIs have a this position of power sustained by other historical colonial invaders, and there is no intention of permitting the establishment of an autonomous state for the native people, the choices are to become a pariah and either ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the native presence in the area under the control of the colonizers or to integrate the native population into to the state established by the colonizers."
> 
> And concluded that I did not see other options.  If you have another viable option present it.








 So how is it that the arab muslims were allowed to create a state without hinderance, it is their free determination that is stopping them from from taking the last step towards full statehood.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts.
> 
> However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.
> 
> Do you see any other solution?
> 
> 
> 
> I see you're retreating from your silly "invasion" slogans, at least temporarily. Your simple minded reiteration of such silly slogans only serves to weaken your otherwise, ill considered and inarticulate sentence structuring around islamist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, let's set aside your  responses that are now taking the tack of repeating what I write.  Very childish, by the way.
> 
> Do you see other post-invasion solutions beyond ethnic cleansing, genocide or integration of the native people? If you don't have an answer, there is no need to respond.
Click to expand...







 The native people have been integrated, it is the illegal arab muslim insurgents that have not been allowed to set down roots. The evidence of Winston Churchill alone shows that the arab muslims illegally migrated in their hordes with the intent of colonisation and genocide of the Jews. They failed because they cant trust one another, and so fought as individuals and not a cohesive force.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts.
> 
> However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.
> 
> Do you see any other solution?









 How about the UN enforce international laws of 1923 and 1925 created by the LoN and force the arab muslims to submit to being evicted as they demanded be done and relocated in Jordan


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?



If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> My being amused is a far cry from your emotional and angry retorts.
> 
> However, as stated, the issue is not whether or not there was an invasion, but rather post invasion, what the possible solutions are.  I stated that I could see three, ethnic cleansing of the native people, elimination of the native people by other means. e.g. successful genocide, or integration of the native people.
> 
> Do you see any other solution?



If Israel had cleansed herself of the Arabs at the time of her founding, as the Arab nations ALL did, there would be no conflict.  An irony that Israel, alone, attempted to do the morally correct thing.

The solution is a "population transfer" through land swaps and two states each with a reasonably homogeneous population.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _
Click to expand...


The people that invaded Palestine were Europeans.  There was no return.  

The indigenous people of Palestine are the same people that were there when the Europeans invaded. That they converted in time to Christianity and Islam did not change their indigenous status.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people that invaded Palestine were Europeans.  There was no return.
> 
> The indigenous people of Palestine are the same people that were there when the Europeans invaded. That they converted in time to Christianity and Islam did not change their indigenous status.
Click to expand...

As there was no invasion, your frantic cutting and pasting of the same slogans and clichés serves no purpose but to waste bandwidth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.

One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people that invaded Palestine were Europeans.  There was no return.
> 
> The indigenous people of Palestine are the same people that were there when the Europeans invaded. That they converted in time to Christianity and Islam did not change their indigenous status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As there was no invasion, your frantic cutting and pasting of the same slogans and clichés serves no purpose but to waste bandwidth.
Click to expand...


To get an answer out of you, let's fantasize that the indigenous people welcomed the arrival of the Europeans in great numbers (so now it is no longer an invasion) and for whatever reason these Europeans created a state for themselves named the state after their (and not the indigenous people's religions). expelled many of the indigenous people and we arrived at the same point we are now.

Are there any other solutions beyond those I specified?  I think not.


----------



## montelatici

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


Of course there was an invasion, by the way.  There is no other definition for what happened.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there was an invasion, by the way.  There is no other definition for what happened.
Click to expand...


"... because I say so."


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people that invaded Palestine were Europeans.  There was no return.
> 
> The indigenous people of Palestine are the same people that were there when the Europeans invaded. That they converted in time to Christianity and Islam did not change their indigenous status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As there was no invasion, your frantic cutting and pasting of the same slogans and clichés serves no purpose but to waste bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To get an answer out of you, let's fantasize that the indigenous people welcomed the arrival of the Europeans in great numbers (so now it is no longer an invasion) and for whatever reason these Europeans created a state for themselves named the state after their (and not the indigenous people's religions). expelled many of the indigenous people and we arrived at the same point we are now.
> 
> Are there any other solutions beyond those I specified?  I think not.
Click to expand...

In part, you have identified, all by yourself, the issues that cause you such angst: you spend too much time fantasizing and too little time dealing with objective reality.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al

As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


*(QUESTION)*

What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are trying to smokescreen the issue.

The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
Click to expand...



Ya Allah, dude. The smokescreen is yours with your nonsensical "...gun in their face....", slogan. That's simply unsupportable. The Arabs were offered self-determination and sovereignty as a part of the territories under the mandate as was territory for the re-establishment of the Jewish National Home.

Your nonsensical use of the term "Palestinians" is itself a smokescreen and only serves to throw a burqa over the Arab claim to sovereignty in the entirety of the geographic area called "Palestine" to the exclusion of non-Arab residents

The term "Palestinians" was a 1964 invention that was a part of the original, fascist PLO Charter that whined:

The Original Palestine National Charter (1964) | Jewish Virtual Library


*Article 1. Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the large Arab homeland.
*
Did you happen to notice the term "Arab," disqualifying any non-Arabs from being classified as Pal'istanian.

Do yourself a favor and read the rest of the Arab-Moslem fascist diatribe.

The "gun in their face" of the Arab-Moslem fascists was actually the gun they aimed at their own heads.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.

What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​


P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.


*(COMMENT)*

The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:

*ARTICLE 27*.

No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.

It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:

12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.

Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Promoting the colonization of Palestine by Europeans "molested" the opportunity of the native people to pursue autonomous development.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are trying to smokescreen the issue.

The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.


RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
More crapola from Rocco.

CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY

It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."

Oh jeese.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
Click to expand...


*"PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY"

Ya Allah. The Arab owners of a country called Pal'istan?

Here again we're alerted to a "country" that never existed, "owned" by arabs. 

Funny stuff.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Promoting the colonization of Palestine by Europeans "molested" the opportunity of the native people to pursue autonomous development.
Click to expand...

As we know, the Arab portion of the mythical "Country of Pal'istan" never had the abiity to achieve either governance or self-determination. They couldn't succeed decades ago and they can't succeed now.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.



I agree with you.  The "Palestinians" have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne.  And SOME of the "Palestinians" exercised that right to sovereignty -- the Jewish people.  (Actually, imo, the Jewish people have MORE rights to that sovereignty, but I'm not going to quibble a hundred years later).  

The question is NOT (I repeat NOT) about whether the Arab Palestinian Muslims and Christians have the "right" to a self-determinative sovereignty.  They do.  We all agree they do.  The question is whether they self-determine they would prefer to have that sovereignty under Jordan's rule (a decision they made in 1947, which appears to have been un-made, both by them and Jordan); under Israeli rule (clearly unlikely) or under their own sovereign rule on a portion of the territory where the other "Palestinians" have ALSO declared sovereignty (as is their right as acknowledged above).  There is nothing, in law, preventing two groups, two very distinct cultural groups, from EACH forming their own sovereignty within their rights (as acknowledged above).  There are practical considerations which prevent that second group (STILL!) from sovereignty.  Not the least of which is to learn to play in the sandbox with others.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.  The "Palestinians" have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne.  And SOME of the "Palestinians" exercised that right to sovereignty -- the Jewish people.  (Actually, imo, the Jewish people have MORE rights to that sovereignty, but I'm not going to quibble a hundred years later).
> 
> The question is NOT (I repeat NOT) about whether the Arab Palestinian Muslims and Christians have the "right" to a self-determinative sovereignty.  They do.  We all agree they do.  The question is whether they self-determine they would prefer to have that sovereignty under Jordan's rule (a decision they made in 1947, which appears to have been un-made, both by them and Jordan); under Israeli rule (clearly unlikely) or under their own sovereign rule on a portion of the territory where the other "Palestinians" have ALSO declared sovereignty (as is their right as acknowledged above).  There is nothing, in law, preventing two groups, two very distinct cultural groups, from EACH forming their own sovereignty within their rights (as acknowledged above).  There are practical considerations which prevent that second group (STILL!) from sovereignty.  Not the least of which is to learn to play in the sandbox with others.
Click to expand...

You are posting clutter. Can you prove anything you said?


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Yes, and not a single one of the Arab Palestinians took advantage of the opportunity to "develop on their own."



montelatici said:


> Promoting the colonization of Palestine by Europeans "molested" the opportunity of the native people to pursue autonomous development.


*(COMMENT)*

We've talked about  "development" before.  The Arab Palestinians don't even try.  And every time the issue is raised, they try and blame the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

Is this too difficult for you to follow? 

Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> Is this too difficult for you to follow?
> 
> Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.


Not true. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.

Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Where were the "Palestinian Jews?" These were all foreigners.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, and not a single one of the Arab Palestinians took advantage of the opportunity to "develop on their own."
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Promoting the colonization of Palestine by Europeans "molested" the opportunity of the native people to pursue autonomous development.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We've talked about  "development" before.  The Arab Palestinians don't even try.  And every time the issue is raised, they try and blame the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Of course they tried, the British disregarded all their attempts at nation building.  The British never allowed the Christians and Muslims to pursue autonomous development.  It started in 1922 where in correspondence between the Palestinian Delegation in London the British Foreign Office  stated:

"Mr. Churchill has already explained in paragraph 4 of this letter why His Majesty's Government are not prepared at the present stage to provide for the creation of a national independent Government in Palestine"

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

This policy never changed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Joudie Kalla*

“My home is Palestine. Even though where I grew up wasn’t geographically in Palestine, everything about our family life was Palestinian. Palestinian families have this innate yearning for community and it starts in the home. I lived with my siblings, aunties, and parents and we were always together. Whether it was going on holiday, enjoying parties or simply having dinner, being together was what was important. The food we ate was always traditionally Palestinian, exactly what my parents had enjoyed when they were children. As we grew up, the dishes stayed the same, the food bonded us and helped to create a real sense of family — a Palestinian family." *From “Palestine on a Plate: Memories from My Mother’s Kitchen,” by Joudie Kalla.*

*



*
read more: A new generation of Palestinian chefs poised to conquer the world - Middle East News


----------



## Shusha

She's not Palestinian -- she's European.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.


Why do you say that?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
Click to expand...


She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people that invaded Palestine were Europeans.  There was no return.
> 
> The indigenous people of Palestine are the same people that were there when the Europeans invaded. That they converted in time to Christianity and Islam did not change their indigenous status.
Click to expand...







 No they were arab muslims as their own leader says


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...








 Are you arguing with history again, do you like being shown up as a LIAR

Jordan Formally Annexes the West Bank | History Today


 Richard Cavendish describes the events leading up to Jordan's annexation of the West Bank, on April 24th, 1950.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it called when people from one place go to another place, on another continent in this case,  take over the land and expel and/or subjugate the native inhabitants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an indigenous people were expelled from their place of origin it is called a "return", or in the words of the legal documentation:  _the reconstitution of their National Homeland. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people that invaded Palestine were Europeans.  There was no return.
> 
> The indigenous people of Palestine are the same people that were there when the Europeans invaded. That they converted in time to Christianity and Islam did not change their indigenous status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As there was no invasion, your frantic cutting and pasting of the same slogans and clichés serves no purpose but to waste bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To get an answer out of you, let's fantasize that the indigenous people welcomed the arrival of the Europeans in great numbers (so now it is no longer an invasion) and for whatever reason these Europeans created a state for themselves named the state after their (and not the indigenous people's religions). expelled many of the indigenous people and we arrived at the same point we are now.
> 
> Are there any other solutions beyond those I specified?  I think not.
Click to expand...






Only that is what your islamonazi fantasy says happened, and not the reality.You are altering your fantasy more and more after being hit by the bombshell that no nation sent the Jews to palestine as colonists, so you have to invent a fictitious ruling power. Every time you come to palestine you ignore and deny the Jews still living there that had ancestral ties going back 4,400 years, you do this at your peril because when the latest research bears fruit you will be left looking stupid


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there was an invasion, by the way.  There is no other definition for what happened.
Click to expand...








 Yes by the arab muslims who saw a way to make any easy buck, a pity the Jews were prepared to fight for their survival and so killed the arab muslim invaders.


Unless you believe the truth and accept that the Ottomans and then the LoN invited the Jews to migrate and colonise the land bereft of arab muslims


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
Click to expand...








 And they were given the Lions share to play with, the JEWS WERE GIVEN JUST 22% OF WHAT THEY WERE PROMISED.

 What law says the arab muslims had the right to land they had never seen ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Promoting the colonization of Palestine by Europeans "molested" the opportunity of the native people to pursue autonomous development.
Click to expand...








 You mean like the native JEWISH people that outnumbered the arab muslim itinerant farm workers ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
Click to expand...







 They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?

Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you.  The "Palestinians" have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne.  And SOME of the "Palestinians" exercised that right to sovereignty -- the Jewish people.  (Actually, imo, the Jewish people have MORE rights to that sovereignty, but I'm not going to quibble a hundred years later).
> 
> The question is NOT (I repeat NOT) about whether the Arab Palestinian Muslims and Christians have the "right" to a self-determinative sovereignty.  They do.  We all agree they do.  The question is whether they self-determine they would prefer to have that sovereignty under Jordan's rule (a decision they made in 1947, which appears to have been un-made, both by them and Jordan); under Israeli rule (clearly unlikely) or under their own sovereign rule on a portion of the territory where the other "Palestinians" have ALSO declared sovereignty (as is their right as acknowledged above).  There is nothing, in law, preventing two groups, two very distinct cultural groups, from EACH forming their own sovereignty within their rights (as acknowledged above).  There are practical considerations which prevent that second group (STILL!) from sovereignty.  Not the least of which is to learn to play in the sandbox with others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are posting clutter. Can you prove anything you said?
Click to expand...








 Much more than you can prove your claims to what you see as reality. As in the letter sent 5 months after the BRitish handed the mandate to the UN and the Jews had declared the land Israel


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Is this too difficult for you to follow?
> 
> Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Where were the "Palestinian Jews?" These were all foreigners.
Click to expand...








 WRONG Israel was created by the Jews that were legal citizens of palestine under current international laws. They were all in Palestine the day the declaration was made. 

The arab muslims were not cohesive and were split into 8 factions each wanting its own slice of the cake, and the Egyptians got there first and tried to steal Jewish lands by legal subterfuge.

 Your smokescreen is dispersed as soon as you deploy it because the Zionists were legally accepted as being the spokesman for the Jews, the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, and not a single one of the Arab Palestinians took advantage of the opportunity to "develop on their own."
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Promoting the colonization of Palestine by Europeans "molested" the opportunity of the native people to pursue autonomous development.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We've talked about  "development" before.  The Arab Palestinians don't even try.  And every time the issue is raised, they try and blame the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they tried, the British disregarded all their attempts at nation building.  The British never allowed the Christians and Muslims to pursue autonomous development.  It started in 1922 where in correspondence between the Palestinian Delegation in London the British Foreign Office  stated:
> 
> "Mr. Churchill has already explained in paragraph 4 of this letter why His Majesty's Government are not prepared at the present stage to provide for the creation of a national independent Government in Palestine"
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> This policy never changed.
Click to expand...







 And what was the reasons given then monte, or is that what destroys your stance again.



 Here are the reasons


 2. I am to point out in the first place that, while your Delegation is recognised by Mr. Churchill as representing a large section of the Moslem and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, and while the Secretary of State is anxious to discuss his present proposals informally with recognised representatives, such as yourselves, of any important section of the community, he is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine, since no official machinery for representation has as yet been constituted. It is with the object of providing the people of Palestine with a constitutional channel for the expression of their opinions and wishes that the draft constitution has been framed.

3. Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations into which they have entered towards the Jewish people. He has informed you on more than one occasion that he cannot discuss the future of Palestine upon any other basis than that of the letter addressed by the Right Honourable A. J. Balfour to Lord Rothschild on the 2nd November, 1917, commonly known as the "Balfour Declaration." You state in your letter that the people of Palestine cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion. Mr. Churchill is unable for the reasons stated above to regard your Delegation as officially representing the People of Palestine. He presumes that your statement is not in any case intended to apply to the existing Jewish population of Palestine, which, so far as he is aware, your Delegation makes no claim to represent.

4. With regard to Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, I am to observe that this Article, in so far as it applies to territories severed from the Ottoman Empire, has been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in Articles 94 to 97 of the Treaty of Sevres, Syria and Iraq are explicitly referred to in Article 94 of that Treaty as having been provisionally recognised as Independent States, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Article 95, on the other hand, makes no such reference to Palestine. The reason for this is that, as stated in that Article, the Mandatory is to be responsible for putting into effect the Declaration originally made on the 2nd November, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, and the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. There is no question of treating the people of Palestine as less advanced than their neighbours in Iraq and Syria; the position is that His Majesty's Government are bound by a pledge which is antecedent to the Covenant of the League of Nations, and they cannot allow a constitutional position to develop in a country for which they have accepted responsibility to the Principal Allied Powers, which may make it impracticable to carry into effect a solemn undertaking given by themselves and their Allies.

5. For this reason Mr. Churchill is unable to accede to the second of the six requests made by your Delegation at the close of your letter under reply. If your Delegation really represents the present attitude of the majority of the Arab population of Palestine, and Mr. Churchill has no grounds for suggesting that this is not the case, it is quite clear that the creation at this stage of a national Government would preclude the fulfilment of the pledge made by the British Government to the Jewish people. It follows that the Principal Allied Powers, concerned as they were to ensure the fulfilment of a policy adopted before the Covenant was drafted, were well advised in applying to Palestine a somewhat different interpretation of paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the Covenant than was applied to the neighbouring countries of Iraq and Syria. His Majesty's Government are ready and willing to grant to the people of Palestine the greatest measure of independence consistent with the fulfilment of the pledges referred to. They readily endorse the five remaining requests made at the close of your letter, and it is in the hope of ensuring their realisation that the Secretary of State has invited your Delegation to discuss with him and with members of his department the practical steps which shall be taken to attain these objects.

6. The references in your letter under reply to "a great immigration of alien Jews," "a flood of alien immigration," and "a flood of alien Jewish immigration," coupled with the request that the British Government should "put a stop to all alien immigration," and the reference to the Zionist Organisation in Clause 2 of paragraph _(d) _of your letter, indicate that your Delegation and the community which they represent, imperfectly apprehend the interpretation placed by His Majesty's Government upon the policy of the National Home for the Jewish people. This interpretation was publicly given in Palestine on the 3rd June, 1921, by the High Commissioner in the following words :—




" These words (National Home) mean that the Jews, who are a people scattered throughout the world, but whose hearts are always turned to Palestine should be enabled to found here their home, and that some amongst them, within the limits fixed by numbers and the interests of the present population, should come to Palestine in order to help by their resources and efforts to develop the country to the advantage of all its inhabitants."

This interpretation was endorsed by the Secretary of State in his speech to the House of Commons on the 14th June, 1921. Mr. Churchill is reluctant to believe that your Delegation, or the people whom they represent, can entertain any objection in principle to the policy as thus interpreted.




Want to comment on the facts and reality that show as far back as 1922 the British knew how vile and evil the arab muslims were.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
Click to expand...







 For the same reason you are European, as that is your homeland


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you arguing with history again, do you like being shown up as a LIAR
> 
> Jordan Formally Annexes the West Bank | History Today
> 
> 
> Richard Cavendish describes the events leading up to Jordan's annexation of the West Bank, on April 24th, 1950.
Click to expand...

On April 24, 1950, the Jordan House of Deputies and House of Notables, in a joint session, adopted a Resolution making the West Bank and Jerusalem part of Jordan. This act had no  basis in international law; it was only the de facto act of Trans-Jordan as a conquerer.The other Arab countries denied formal recognition of the Jordanian move and only two governments – Great Britain and Pakistan – formally recognized the Jordanian takeover. The rest of the world, including the United States, never did.

Jordan Annexed West Bank after 1948 War

*Jordan’s Illegal Annexation *
In 1950, Jordan annexed the territories it had captured in the 1948 war–-eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank. The April 24th resolution declared “its support for complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one State, which is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, at whose head reigns King Abdullah Ibn al Husain...”

While Great Britain and Pakistan were the only countries that recognized Jordan’s annexation – all other nations, including the Arab states, rejected it -- Great Britain recognized only the annexation of the West Bank. It never recognized either Jordan or Israel’s sovereignty over any sector of Jerusalem, viewing both Jordan’s 1950 annexation and Israel’s  annexation of west Jerusalem as illegal.

1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem

Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."[16] The annexation formed part of Jordan’s "Greater Syria Plan" expansionist policy,[17] and in response, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Syria joined Egypt in demanding Jordan’s expulsion from the Arab League.[18][19] A motion to expel Jordan from the League was prevented by the dissenting votes of Yemen and Iraq.[20] On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?
> 
> Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again
Click to expand...

Not true. Every Palestinian who made a move to self determination was arrested, exiled, or killed by the British.

The Palestinians only claimed land inside their own international borders. What part of Israel would be inside Palestine's international borders? That the Palestinians claimed land already designated by the Jews is just an Israeli lie. Show me a 1948 map of Israel or a document defining its borders and where the Palestinian declaration encroaches on that territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Is this too difficult for you to follow?
> 
> Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Where were the "Palestinian Jews?" These were all foreigners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG Israel was created by the Jews that were legal citizens of palestine under current international laws. They were all in Palestine the day the declaration was made.
> 
> The arab muslims were not cohesive and were split into 8 factions each wanting its own slice of the cake, and the Egyptians got there first and tried to steal Jewish lands by legal subterfuge.
> 
> Your smokescreen is dispersed as soon as you deploy it because the Zionists were legally accepted as being the spokesman for the Jews, the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.
Click to expand...

the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.​
Refused to take part in what?

The formation of the APG and its declaration of independence was 100% legal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
Click to expand...

Forced exile does not change your nationality.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you arguing with history again, do you like being shown up as a LIAR
> 
> Jordan Formally Annexes the West Bank | History Today
> 
> 
> Richard Cavendish describes the events leading up to Jordan's annexation of the West Bank, on April 24th, 1950.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On April 24, 1950, the Jordan House of Deputies and House of Notables, in a joint session, adopted a Resolution making the West Bank and Jerusalem part of Jordan. This act had no  basis in international law; it was only the de facto act of Trans-Jordan as a conquerer.The other Arab countries denied formal recognition of the Jordanian move and only two governments – Great Britain and Pakistan – formally recognized the Jordanian takeover. The rest of the world, including the United States, never did.
> 
> Jordan Annexed West Bank after 1948 War
> 
> *Jordan’s Illegal Annexation *
> In 1950, Jordan annexed the territories it had captured in the 1948 war–-eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank. The April 24th resolution declared “its support for complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one State, which is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, at whose head reigns King Abdullah Ibn al Husain...”
> 
> While Great Britain and Pakistan were the only countries that recognized Jordan’s annexation – all other nations, including the Arab states, rejected it -- Great Britain recognized only the annexation of the West Bank. It never recognized either Jordan or Israel’s sovereignty over any sector of Jerusalem, viewing both Jordan’s 1950 annexation and Israel’s  annexation of west Jerusalem as illegal.
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Jordan's annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. Elihu Lauterpacht described it as a move that "entirely lacked legal justification."[16] The annexation formed part of Jordan’s "Greater Syria Plan" expansionist policy,[17] and in response, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Syria joined Egypt in demanding Jordan’s expulsion from the Arab League.[18][19] A motion to expel Jordan from the League was prevented by the dissenting votes of Yemen and Iraq.[20] On 12 June 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a “trustee” pending a future settlement.
> 
> Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
Click to expand...







 So now you admit that the west bank was annexed by Jordan, talk about a U turn


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Is this too difficult for you to follow?
> 
> Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Where were the "Palestinian Jews?" These were all foreigners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG Israel was created by the Jews that were legal citizens of palestine under current international laws. They were all in Palestine the day the declaration was made.
> 
> The arab muslims were not cohesive and were split into 8 factions each wanting its own slice of the cake, and the Egyptians got there first and tried to steal Jewish lands by legal subterfuge.
> 
> Your smokescreen is dispersed as soon as you deploy it because the Zionists were legally accepted as being the spokesman for the Jews, the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.​
> Refused to take part in what?
> 
> The formation of the APG and its declaration of independence was 100% legal.
Click to expand...






 The UN partition plan for starters. And it goes all the way back to 1917 when they refused as a body to be involved with any of the details of the mandate. So they lost everything they could have had


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forced exile does not change your nationality.
Click to expand...







 Correct and it still makes the Jews of the world Israeli's doesnt it and gives them a better claim to the lands than the illegal arab muslim migrants


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> It is virtually impossible to discuss any facet of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute with the pro-Palestinians.It really doesn't matter what aspect of the dispute you address, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believe that they have the superior position.
> 
> Again, the HoAP hold the position that in 1967, Israel occupied Palestinian territory.  However, in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 95318​This is a very subtle twist in the actual facts.  While it sounds truthful, it is actually a very good piece of fallacious propaganda.
> •  The Armistice Line CANNOT BE the "internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Why?  Because in 1967 there was no State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine is not declared until November 1988.
> •  In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom dissolved all ties with the West Bank Territory it annexed in April 1950.  Upon cutting all ties, the West Bank _(formerly the Israel occupied sovereign territory of Jordan)_.  When the Jordanians cut all ties, and politically abandon the West Bank, it became unincorporated _*terra nullius*_ in the hands of the Israeli government.
> •  In this key PLO-NAD position, the claim is that (as you can see) "no state may acquire territory by force."  While the applicability of this "concept" is debatable, the true fact remains that Israel did NOT:
> 
> §  Incorporate the territory.
> §  The territory was "abandon" by Jordan as the sovereign power.
> §  With the exception of the land in Jerusalem, annexed by Israel, Israel DID NOT claim sovereignty over any part of the West Bank.  Israel maintains effective control as required by the Hague Regulation.​While the PLO-NAD makes some valid points concerning the various disputes, the one most often heard repeated is that of territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?
> 
> Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Every Palestinian who made a move to self determination was arrested, exiled, or killed by the British.
> 
> The Palestinians only claimed land inside their own international borders. What part of Israel would be inside Palestine's international borders? That the Palestinians claimed land already designated by the Jews is just an Israeli lie. Show me a 1948 map of Israel or a document defining its borders and where the Palestinian declaration encroaches on that territory.
Click to expand...








 LIAR if that was true you would have posted the links. What you mean is every arab muslim illegal migrant that resorted to violence, acts of war and terrorism were arrested. The same happened to the Jews

 What international borders as none existed and still dont, your one and only link actually states the borders are those of the mandate of palestine.

I have given you the 1922 definitive delination of the LoN grant for the Jewish national home, others have given you the partition plan map. Where is your map of the nation of palestine from 1917 then that you have been asked for and refuse to produce, or even 1948 or 1988 ?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forced exile does not change your nationality.
Click to expand...


Thank you.  I'll remember you said that.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forced exile does not change your nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you.  I'll remember you said that.
Click to expand...


With the caveat that changing religion doesn't change nationality.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forced exile does not change your nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you.  I'll remember you said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the caveat that changing religion doesn't change nationality.
Click to expand...






And that taking people as slaves to another land does not remove their nationality or culture. So when they get the chance to return they should not find morons and idiots telling them they have no rights


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Is this too difficult for you to follow?
> 
> Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Where were the "Palestinian Jews?" These were all foreigners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG Israel was created by the Jews that were legal citizens of palestine under current international laws. They were all in Palestine the day the declaration was made.
> 
> The arab muslims were not cohesive and were split into 8 factions each wanting its own slice of the cake, and the Egyptians got there first and tried to steal Jewish lands by legal subterfuge.
> 
> Your smokescreen is dispersed as soon as you deploy it because the Zionists were legally accepted as being the spokesman for the Jews, the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.​
> Refused to take part in what?
> 
> The formation of the APG and its declaration of independence was 100% legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN partition plan for starters. And it goes all the way back to 1917 when they refused as a body to be involved with any of the details of the mandate. So they lost everything they could have had
Click to expand...

Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.

All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I have stated before, the PLO started going weird in the 1970s and have since gone off the rails. And then you critique what they say through your misinformation. Your post is so incoherent I don't know where to start.
> 
> One thing you always get wrong is that Jordan annexed the West Bank. That did not happen. The West Bank was occupied Palestinian territory. Israel took over that occupation in 1967. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?
> 
> Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Every Palestinian who made a move to self determination was arrested, exiled, or killed by the British.
> 
> The Palestinians only claimed land inside their own international borders. What part of Israel would be inside Palestine's international borders? That the Palestinians claimed land already designated by the Jews is just an Israeli lie. Show me a 1948 map of Israel or a document defining its borders and where the Palestinian declaration encroaches on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR if that was true you would have posted the links. What you mean is every arab muslim illegal migrant that resorted to violence, acts of war and terrorism were arrested. The same happened to the Jews
> 
> What international borders as none existed and still dont, your one and only link actually states the borders are those of the mandate of palestine.
> 
> I have given you the 1922 definitive delination of the LoN grant for the Jewish national home, others have given you the partition plan map. Where is your map of the nation of palestine from 1917 then that you have been asked for and refuse to produce, or even 1948 or 1988 ?
Click to expand...

Nice deflection. You did not refute anything in my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forced exile does not change your nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you.  I'll remember you said that.
Click to expand...

OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history. That does not say that any Muslim or Christian from anywhere can "return" there because they share a religion.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history.



The expulsion of the Jewish people is also recorded history.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Jewish people is also recorded history.
Click to expand...

Anyone who can trace their ancestry there has the right to return.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Jewish people is also recorded history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone who can trace their ancestry there has the right to return.
Click to expand...


Trace their ancestry how?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Haya Ayoub*

**


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.


*(COMMENT)*

First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.

BUT!

•  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
•  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
•  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."


 
UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
•  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
•  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
•  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Is this too difficult for you to follow?
> 
> Prove what?  There is nothing in my post which requires "proof".  That there are two distinct groups in "Palestine"?  Self-evident. The one of them has exercised their right to sovereignty?  Self-evident.  That there is nothing in law which prevents a State from forming two States based on the self-determination of two distinct cultural groups?  One can't prove a negative.  If you think you have some sort of proof to negate my claim -- present it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Where were the "Palestinian Jews?" These were all foreigners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG Israel was created by the Jews that were legal citizens of palestine under current international laws. They were all in Palestine the day the declaration was made.
> 
> The arab muslims were not cohesive and were split into 8 factions each wanting its own slice of the cake, and the Egyptians got there first and tried to steal Jewish lands by legal subterfuge.
> 
> Your smokescreen is dispersed as soon as you deploy it because the Zionists were legally accepted as being the spokesman for the Jews, the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the A.P.G. had refused to take part and so were not accepted as being legal.​
> Refused to take part in what?
> 
> The formation of the APG and its declaration of independence was 100% legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN partition plan for starters. And it goes all the way back to 1917 when they refused as a body to be involved with any of the details of the mandate. So they lost everything they could have had
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
Click to expand...










 How many times have you been shown using UN archives that it was implemented, do you ignore everything that proves you to be a LIAR ?

Correct and in doing so the arab muslims lost any rights they had to claim the land

Give examples of them being denied the right to exercise free determination and independence.

Their actions trying to force the UN to hand them the reigns of a fully functioning nation once belonging to the Jews is illegal, as is their violence, acts of war, war crimes and terrorist attacks


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> As tou say My "post is so incoherent I don't know where to start."
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think that you might want to reassess the _Republic_, the _Statesman_, the _Laws_.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no smoke screen.  You can either answer the questions or you can't.  The answers will point directly to the status of the West Bank at the time of the alleged theft from the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> What country relinquished all ties and withdrew all claims to the West Bank on 31 July 1988?
> What Arab activity of any description, maintained sovereign control over the West Bank on 1 Aug 1988?​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne really does not address any global right --- either of sovereignty or self-determination.  As has been said several times, Article 16 places the title and rights of the territory in the hands of the Allied Powers.  NOT in the hand of the indigenous population.    This is further covered under Article 27:
> *ARTICLE 27*.
> 
> No power or jurisdiction in political, legislative or administrative matters shall be exercised outside Turkish territory by the Turkish Government or authorities, for any reason whatsoever, over the nationals of a territory *placed under the sovereignty or protectorate* of the other Powers signatory of the present Treaty, or over the nationals of a territory detached from Turkey.
> 
> It is understood that the spiritual attributions of the Moslem religious authorities are in no way infringed.​
> Now, in the 14 Points under President Wilson's post-War Peace, it is important to remember that, Point #12, directly applicable to the Middle East, is limited in scope:
> 
> 12. The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely *unmolested opportunity of autonomous development*, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.​
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity." Self-determination was simply not fully developed.  In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), self-determination was not addressed until 1988, by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Again, this is not a "smokescreen;" but, an acknowledgement of a lack of dedication and commitment to the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?
> 
> Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Every Palestinian who made a move to self determination was arrested, exiled, or killed by the British.
> 
> The Palestinians only claimed land inside their own international borders. What part of Israel would be inside Palestine's international borders? That the Palestinians claimed land already designated by the Jews is just an Israeli lie. Show me a 1948 map of Israel or a document defining its borders and where the Palestinian declaration encroaches on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR if that was true you would have posted the links. What you mean is every arab muslim illegal migrant that resorted to violence, acts of war and terrorism were arrested. The same happened to the Jews
> 
> What international borders as none existed and still dont, your one and only link actually states the borders are those of the mandate of palestine.
> 
> I have given you the 1922 definitive delination of the LoN grant for the Jewish national home, others have given you the partition plan map. Where is your map of the nation of palestine from 1917 then that you have been asked for and refuse to produce, or even 1948 or 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You did not refute anything in my post.
Click to expand...








 What deflection, until you provide the evidence all you are posting is LIES. You repeatedly ask for links and evidence and when you get them you ignore them and ask for them again. The map from 1922 is the one the Jews used to define the nation of Israel.
Why do you claim the arab's arrested for violent crimes and terrorism were indigenous to the area and were deported or executed illegally.
Where is the map of the arab muslim nation from 1948 or 1988, if such is so important to you.
Why do you claim everything that goes against your POV is an Israeli lie.


That is every topic in your post refuted by simple logic and reality


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's not Palestinian -- she's European.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She wasn't born in Palestine.  She has never even visited.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forced exile does not change your nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you.  I'll remember you said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history. That does not say that any Muslim or Christian from anywhere can "return" there because they share a religion.
Click to expand...








 As is their illegal migration between 1917 and the present day, so DNA tests to see where their country of origin is would be in order and any that are showing less than 4 generations to be returned.

That is the only criteria that the muslims are going on a shared religion.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Jewish people is also recorded history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone who can trace their ancestry there has the right to return.
Click to expand...







 And the Jews have done so by taking DNA tests, and what law says there is a right of return. Produce it and you will see Mecca and Medina returned to Jewish ownership along with Jerusalem and the west bank


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Haya Ayoub*
> 
> **









 Trying to slime the Jews again with your islamonazi propaganda and LIES


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Haya Ayoub*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to slime the Jews again with your islamonazi propaganda and LIES
Click to expand...

What slime and lies? She seemed like a level headed young woman.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Jewish people is also recorded history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone who can trace their ancestry there has the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trace their ancestry how?
Click to expand...

The British, the UN, and others have records of Palestinian citizenship.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The native Christians and Muslims of Palestine were unhelpful, recalcitrant and unwilling to help facilitate the takeover and repopulation of lands their ancestors had lived on for centuries by Europeans needing a National Home.  Who would have thought!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
Indeed, but Jordan and Egypt no longer occupy any Palestinian territory. Israel does.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> The Palestinians have had the right to sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne. That they have had an occupation gun in their face since their inception preventing them from exercising that right does not negate that right.
> In the  post-conflict phase of the Israeli War of independence (mid-1949), *self-determination was not addressed until 1988*, by the Arab Palestinians.​
> More crapola from Rocco.
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED *28 SEPTEMBER 1948* FROM THE PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE *NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION* WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD* PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE*, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> It is important to understand that self-determination was not recognized as a "right" but as a "unmolested opportunity."
> 
> Oh jeese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?
> 
> Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Every Palestinian who made a move to self determination was arrested, exiled, or killed by the British.
> 
> The Palestinians only claimed land inside their own international borders. What part of Israel would be inside Palestine's international borders? That the Palestinians claimed land already designated by the Jews is just an Israeli lie. Show me a 1948 map of Israel or a document defining its borders and where the Palestinian declaration encroaches on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR if that was true you would have posted the links. What you mean is every arab muslim illegal migrant that resorted to violence, acts of war and terrorism were arrested. The same happened to the Jews
> 
> What international borders as none existed and still dont, your one and only link actually states the borders are those of the mandate of palestine.
> 
> I have given you the 1922 definitive delination of the LoN grant for the Jewish national home, others have given you the partition plan map. Where is your map of the nation of palestine from 1917 then that you have been asked for and refuse to produce, or even 1948 or 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You did not refute anything in my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What deflection, until you provide the evidence all you are posting is LIES. You repeatedly ask for links and evidence and when you get them you ignore them and ask for them again. The map from 1922 is the one the Jews used to define the nation of Israel.
> Why do you claim the arab's arrested for violent crimes and terrorism were indigenous to the area and were deported or executed illegally.
> Where is the map of the arab muslim nation from 1948 or 1988, if such is so important to you.
> Why do you claim everything that goes against your POV is an Israeli lie.
> 
> 
> That is every topic in your post refuted by simple logic and reality
Click to expand...

You called me a liar.

Prove your point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

• You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined...​
If both people accepted, there would have been a treaty. If both sides did not accept, there is nothing. There is no such thing as a one sided treaty. Some tried to push forward with parts of the resolution anyway but without authority.

You always step over the most important part. What was the core of this "offer?" It was to partition Palestine. The Palestinians were to agree to cede half of their country to the Zionist colonial project.

What other people would agree to that?

Give me some names.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The native Christians and Muslims of Palestine were unhelpful, recalcitrant and unwilling to help facilitate the takeover and repopulation of lands their ancestors had lived on for centuries by Europeans needing a National Home.  Who would have thought!
Click to expand...


The invading Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese Arab-Moslem squatters wanted to maintain their piece of Arab Ummah'istan. 

Who would have doubted that?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Haya Ayoub*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to slime the Jews again with your islamonazi propaganda and LIES
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What slime and lies? She seemed like a level headed young woman.
Click to expand...






 NO YOU as that is all you are doing dragging up islamonazu LIES and BLOOD LIBELS to slime the Jews.


 Now about this map of palestine from 1917 that shows the international borders again, and not the map of the borders of the Jewish portion of palestine you usually drag up......................


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the expulsion of the Palestinians is recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Jewish people is also recorded history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone who can trace their ancestry there has the right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trace their ancestry how?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British, the UN, and others have records of Palestinian citizenship.
Click to expand...






 Actually they dont as none were kept of illegal immigrants, just those that are resident in Israel who were legal.

 The only litmus test is their DNA that can show how many generations they have lived in the area


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The native Christians and Muslims of Palestine were unhelpful, recalcitrant and unwilling to help facilitate the takeover and repopulation of lands their ancestors had lived on for centuries by Europeans needing a National Home.  Who would have thought!
Click to expand...








 Well it did not stop them when it came to foriegn muslims coming in and taking their lands for other foriegn muslims to rule over and claim as theirs did it. Unfortunately international laws of that time worked against them and they ended up nearly losing everything in the process. 
BUT YOU DONT WANT ANY LAWS OR TREATIES TO WORK IN THE JEWS FAVOUR BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION SEES THEM AS THE MURDERER OF GOD


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Indeed, but Jordan and Egypt no longer occupy any Palestinian territory. Israel does.
Click to expand...






I thought you said palestine was stopped from ever existing by Israel ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They had 30 years to declare their self determination to a state, and it was only after the Egyptians with the arab League formed the All palestinian government and tried to claim land already designated by the Jews as their national home. Does this mean that the US can send a letter to the UN stating that as of 1st November 2016 the lands of mecca and medina will be American sovereign lands and it will be legal ?
> 
> Now why do you think the UN ignored this letter, and told Egypt to try again
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Every Palestinian who made a move to self determination was arrested, exiled, or killed by the British.
> 
> The Palestinians only claimed land inside their own international borders. What part of Israel would be inside Palestine's international borders? That the Palestinians claimed land already designated by the Jews is just an Israeli lie. Show me a 1948 map of Israel or a document defining its borders and where the Palestinian declaration encroaches on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR if that was true you would have posted the links. What you mean is every arab muslim illegal migrant that resorted to violence, acts of war and terrorism were arrested. The same happened to the Jews
> 
> What international borders as none existed and still dont, your one and only link actually states the borders are those of the mandate of palestine.
> 
> I have given you the 1922 definitive delination of the LoN grant for the Jewish national home, others have given you the partition plan map. Where is your map of the nation of palestine from 1917 then that you have been asked for and refuse to produce, or even 1948 or 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. You did not refute anything in my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What deflection, until you provide the evidence all you are posting is LIES. You repeatedly ask for links and evidence and when you get them you ignore them and ask for them again. The map from 1922 is the one the Jews used to define the nation of Israel.
> Why do you claim the arab's arrested for violent crimes and terrorism were indigenous to the area and were deported or executed illegally.
> Where is the map of the arab muslim nation from 1948 or 1988, if such is so important to you.
> Why do you claim everything that goes against your POV is an Israeli lie.
> 
> 
> That is every topic in your post refuted by simple logic and reality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You called me a liar.
> 
> Prove your point.
Click to expand...







 Simple you are asked repeatedly for a link to your claim that a nation of palestine has existed since 1917 and have constantly refused to supply that link. It is not mentioned in the Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of Lausanne or the mandate of palestine which are the only links you use making you a rabid LIAR.

You ask for links and get them, usually the above mentioned that you ignore or claim are LIES


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined...​
> If both people accepted, there would have been a treaty. If both sides did not accept, there is nothing. There is no such thing as a one sided treaty. Some tried to push forward with parts of the resolution anyway but without authority.
> 
> You always step over the most important part. What was the core of this "offer?" It was to partition Palestine. The Palestinians were to agree to cede half of their country to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> What other people would agree to that?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...

The obvious error causing your befuddled stammering is your belief that these imagined Pal'istanians were living in an imagined country you call Pal'istan. 

The Islamist Colonial Project was composed of Arab-Moslem squatters from foreign lands. There was no reason for the British to cede lands to Arab-Moslem squatters when they, (the British), controlled the area.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For the hundredth time, your understanding of this is wrong.  But in every good piece of Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda, there are slight pieces of "truth."  That is what makes it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was a non binding recommendation that was not implemented by the Security Council. There was no legal requirement to comply.
> 
> All during the mandate period the Palestinians pushed for their right to self determination and independence. There is nothing illegal about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, --- you are correct.  A/RES/181(II) was a "Recommendation" and a "Non-binding" Resolution.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> •  It was not implemented in the same sense by the Security Council because it was not a "Binding Resolution."
> •  The Implementation was overseen by the Security Council through the eyes of the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC); which reported to the Security Council.
> •  The UNPC did make it clear in its last sentence of Clause #5 PAL/169:  "In fact the resolution of last November 29 was implemented."
> 
> View attachment 95705
> UNPC PAL/169 17 MAY 1948​•  You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary  Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined _(not unexpected - following their established pattern of belligerent uncooperativeness)_; and the Jewish Agency accepting the offer and recommendations.
> •  With the exception of the obstructiveness applied by the Arab League, and the initiation of hostilities as the aggressor --- crossing their internationally recognized frontiers, the Jewish Agency/Provisional Government attempted to comply with the Steps Preparatory to Independence as recommended in A/RES/181 (II) --- and as overseen by the UNPC and the International Community.
> •  Intervention by the Arab League use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly established State of Israel _[(Declarative Form ••• Self-Determination)(as recommended by the UN Resolution)]_ prevented further development towards the objectives of A/RES/181(II).
> •  The combat outcome of the 1948 War opened by the unsanctioned intervention of Arab League Forces attempting to attain that which they were unsuccessful in achieving though peace means, was not favorable to the Arab League.  While the Egyptians were successful in taking by force territory _(Gaza Strip)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine --- and --- the Jordanians were successful in taking by force the territory _(West Bank)_ formally under the Mandate for Palestine, other areas were lost to Israel after the Israeli Defense Force pursued retreating Arab Forces.​
> Given the unproductive, unhelpful, recalcitrant attitude of the Arab Palestinians --- and the general unwillingness to achieve anything even close to the intentions of the Allied Powers to establish a safe and secure national home for the Jewish people, it was not difficult to conclude that the opening of hostilities was  the preferred solution to the dispute.  The UNPC had already detected Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, that were defying and attempting to subvert the recommendations contained in the UN Resolution of 29 November 1947; an obvious and deliberate effort to alter the peaceful outcome.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • You are correct, the recommendation was in the form of an "Offer Extended by the UN and a voluntary Acceptance by either of the clients under the Mandate;" and which the Arab Palestinians declined...​
> If both people accepted, there would have been a treaty. If both sides did not accept, there is nothing. There is no such thing as a one sided treaty. Some tried to push forward with parts of the resolution anyway but without authority.
> 
> You always step over the most important part. What was the core of this "offer?" It was to partition Palestine. The Palestinians were to agree to cede half of their country to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> What other people would agree to that?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...






 How about Isreal when it gave up 78% of its original grant so that Britain could create trans Jordan. Then in 1947 they agreed to give up 23% of the remainder so that the arab muslims could have the best farm lands and control of all the Jewish holy site. All this so they could live in peace.

By the way it was to partition the mandate of palestine not the nation of palestine as you are trying to claim.

It was not a treaty as the arab muslims denied it and so lost any claim to the land in the process


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure your are understanding this just yet.  Please understand what you are saying here...



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, but Jordan and Egypt no longer occupy any Palestinian territory. Israel does.​



*(QUESTION)*

These are critical questions.


Exactly which sovereignty took control of what territory --- from what other sovereignty (in 1967)?

In August of 1988, which sovereignty abandoned what territory, leaving it in _*Terra Nulles*_ and in the effective control --- solely in the hands of what other sovereignty?​*(DEFINITIONAL)*

_*Terra Nullius*_ is a territory over which any prior sovereign of Jordan has publicly and expressly relinquished its sovereignty.  Sovereignty over territory which is *Terra Nullius* can be acquired through occupation.​
Public international law, and more particularly the rules governing title to territory, does not recognise any territorial rights for nomadic peoples, remaining constant in its approach that only a settled state can exercise territorial sovereignty. The criterion of statehood requiring that a state have a defined territory has not yet been read as possibly including the nomadic use of such territory, and nomadic peoples must fit into the structure of a state in which the majority is settled. As there are very few places in the world that have a predominately nomadic population that could potentially claim statehood and challenge the present understanding of territorial sovereignty, 54 nomadic peoples must look beyond the rules governing title to territory to find ways that would allow them to claim rights over their traditional transient territories. Such an avenue has been developed for nomadic peoples under the banner of indigenous peoples’ rights, under which international law has started to acknowledge that cultural ties to territory could be the source of rights over territories for indigenous peoples. (Gilbert, 2007)

54 See Castellino, ‘Territory and Identity in International Law: The Struggle for Self-Determination in the Western Sahara’, (1999) 28 Journal of International Studies 523.​*Disengagement from the West Bank*

On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, _*on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. *_Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
*(COMMENT)*

The administrative severance from the1950, unanimously approved _(Jordanian & Palestinian)_​Unification of the Two Banks​ divided by the Jordan River _(an Annexation approved under self-determination)_, withdrew both the sovereignty and the protection of the West Bank.  This knowingly and effectively left the West Bank to the Israelis.  There was no effective Arab Palestinian government _(provisional or otherwise)_ in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  The Egyptian Military Governorship rapidly withdrew rapidly in the face of an overwhelming superior force.  _(Remembering:  The All Palestine Government (APG) having been dissolved in 1959 by the Egyptian Government.  The APG, upon it disillusionment, had no further claim.)_

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure your are understanding this just yet.  Please understand what you are saying here...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, but Jordan and Egypt no longer occupy any Palestinian territory. Israel does.​
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> These are critical questions.​
> Exactly which sovereignty took control of what territory --- from what other sovereignty (in 1967)?
> 
> In August of 1988, which sovereignty abandoned what territory, leaving it in _*Terra Nulles*_ and in the effective control --- solely in the hands of what other sovereignty?​*(DEFINITIONAL)*
> 
> _*Terra Nullius*_ is a territory over which any prior sovereign of Jordan has publicly and expressly relinquished its sovereignty.  Sovereignty over territory which is *Terra Nullius* can be acquired through occupation.​Public international law, and more particularly the rules governing title to territory, does not recognise any territorial rights for nomadic peoples, remaining constant in its approach that only a settled state can exercise territorial sovereignty. The criterion of statehood requiring that a state have a defined territory has not yet been read as possibly including the nomadic use of such territory, and nomadic peoples must fit into the structure of a state in which the majority is settled. As there are very few places in the world that have a predominately nomadic population that could potentially claim statehood and challenge the present understanding of territorial sovereignty, 54 nomadic peoples must look beyond the rules governing title to territory to find ways that would allow them to claim rights over their traditional transient territories. Such an avenue has been developed for nomadic peoples under the banner of indigenous peoples’ rights, under which international law has started to acknowledge that cultural ties to territory could be the source of rights over territories for indigenous peoples. (Gilbert, 2007)
> 
> 54 See Castellino, ‘Territory and Identity in International Law: The Struggle for Self-Determination in the Western Sahara’, (1999) 28 Journal of International Studies 523.​*Disengagement from the West Bank*
> 
> On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, _*on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. *_Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The administrative severance from the1950, unanimously approved _(Jordanian & Palestinian)_
> Unification of the Two Banks
> divided by the Jordan River _(an Annexation approved under self-determination)_, withdrew both the sovereignty and the protection of the West Bank.  This knowingly and effectively left the West Bank to the Israelis.  There was no effective Arab Palestinian government _(provisional or otherwise)_ in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  The Egyptian Military Governorship rapidly withdrew rapidly in the face of an overwhelming superior force.  _(Remembering:  The All Palestine Government (APG) having been dissolved in 1959 by the Egyptian Government.  The APG, upon it disillusionment, had no further claim.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...

You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)

Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.


----------



## elektra

Palestine, a section of Syria, not a state or a territory, a geographic part. Like the Mojave desert or the Rocky Mountains. In this case, Palestine referred to an area within Syria.


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> Palestine, a section of Syria, not a state or a territory, a geographic part. Like the Mojave desert or the Rocky Mountains. In this case, Palestine referred to an area within Syria.



So what?  Does that mean that it was ok to remove and dispossess the Christians and Muslims who's ancestors had lived their for centuries to make room for European Jews.  Plus having been the Roman province of Palestine for several centuries, with important cities and a large population of Christians during Roman Byzantine rule, ir wasn't the Mojave desert or the Rocky mountains, you ignorant fool.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think I said that.  And again you don't quite understand.



P F Tinmore said:


> You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)​
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.


*(COMMENT*)

And I don't think you read the links.

Did you read?   "_*terra nullius *-  _territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it."

Or did you read?  "*In international law*, a territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty is _*terra nullius*_. Sovereignty over territory which is *terra nullius* can be acquired through occupation."​
Now, there are several other legal sources I could cite, and have cited in the past.  But I'll just simplifiy this the best I can.

But what I can say is that these issues are not isolated concepts.  There are relationships between them.  You have this idea that only a single source or concept is relevant. 

Sovereignty is an extension of authority.  "*But if sovereignty is a matter of authority, it is not a matter of mere authority, but of supreme authority.*"

Sovereignty is:

•  the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies. 

•In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme authority over some polity. It is a basic principle underlying the dominant Westphalian model of state foundation.​
You never answered the previous questions (Post #2988), so I assume you are not aware of the answers or do not understand how they relate.  "*Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order.*"  In the case of the Arab Palestinians, they cannot really be considered sovereign it they cannot exercise power and authority.  And with the Possible exception of Area "A" --- and --- in a very limited respect, the Gaza Strip, the Arab Palestinians can talk all they want about "rights;" but in fact if they don't have control or authority, they simply do not have Sovereignty.

What is Sovereignty.

The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent.

Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary) ​
In the case of the West Bank, the Sovereignty was handed over to the Israelis by default when the Jordanians severed all ties.  It went terra nullius (Jordan abandon sovereignty).  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> So what?  Does that mean that it was ok to remove and dispossess the Christians and Muslims who's ancestors had lived their for centuries to make room for European Jews.  Plus having been the Roman province of Palestine for several centuries, with important cities and a large population of Christians during Roman Byzantine rule, ir wasn't the Mojave desert or the Rocky mountains, you ignorant fool.


Technically, what I said is 100% accurate. You on the other hand would have a tough time showing that Christians and Moslems were forcibly removed. Under the Romans, Palestine was a Judea! You made the case that Palestine is of the Jews, as in Judea, for centuries, under the Romans. Thanks for helping.


----------



## montelatici

From recently declassified British intelligence reports it shows that the European Jews initiated the ethnic cleansing and the Christians and Muslims were forced to flee or be killed by the Jews. the only hope for the Christians and Muslims was a successful intervention by the Arab states, according to the British.  Unfortunately, the Arab states were unable to save the Christians and Muslims from EuropeanJew aggression.


"Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'

"After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, British officials reported later in 1946: "Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".


"By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."

British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948

No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.  

You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> From recently declassified British intelligence reports it shows that the European Jews initiated the ethnic cleansing and the Christians and Muslims were forced to flee or be killed by the Jews. the only hope for the Christians and Muslims was a successful intervention by the Arab states, according to the British.  Unfortunately, the Arab states were unable to save the Christians and Muslims from EuropeanJew aggression.
> 
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'
> 
> "After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, British officials reported later in 1946: "Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.


1. "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'

There is no UK report of that time that refers to Palestinians. If so, produce it, it should be all over the internet. The fact is, that in 1948 and earlier, if someone spoke of Palestinians, it was assumed or known they were speaking of Jews. If you can not be truthful about this little bit of history then you are simply a liar. Not ignorant, for I have now, educated you .


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> "After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, British officials reported later in 1946: "Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".


Anybody who knows a little of the history of Israel, knows the Irgun, were not Zionists, nor were there "militant Zionists" in the Irgun. Technically, the Zionists opposed the Irgun, a completely separate group. Out of fear the Irgun would cease power. 

You have zero understanding of history and simply repeat lies, propaganda.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."


Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.



You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
Click to expand...


The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.

*"PALESTINE.*

*CORRESPONDENCE *
*WITH THE*
*PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION*
*AND THE *
*ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*

*Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.*
*JUNE, 1922.*
*LONDON:*
*
"*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.

If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."


UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
Click to expand...


I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...


Oh, my. You are on another of your cut and paste tirades, cutting and pasting the same articles you cut and paste across multiple threads on multiple occassions. 

Let's just remind you again that your silly "Jew invasion" slogan is just another of your misconceptions and misrepresentations.

It's a bit silly to suggest that itinerant Arabs-Moslems from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon are a "native population" of some "country of Pal'istan". You have the same skewed version of history shared by another poster who is of the "I saw it on YouTube do it must be true", cabal.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, my. You are on another of your cut and paste tirades, cutting and pasting the same articles you cut and paste across multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> Let's just remind you again that your silly "Jew invasion" slogan is just another of your misconceptions and misrepresentations.
> 
> It's a bit silly to suggest that itinerant Arabs-Moslems from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon are a "native population" of some "country of Pal'istan". You have the same skewed version of history shared by another poster who is of the "I saw it on YouTube do it must be true", cabal.
Click to expand...


Just historical fact and not your Zionist propaganda.  I know it upsets you, but Palestine was inhabited by native Christians and Muslims before the Zionists began their invasion.  There is even documentary film confirming this fact from the late 1800s.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, my. You are on another of your cut and paste tirades, cutting and pasting the same articles you cut and paste across multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> Let's just remind you again that your silly "Jew invasion" slogan is just another of your misconceptions and misrepresentations.
> 
> It's a bit silly to suggest that itinerant Arabs-Moslems from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon are a "native population" of some "country of Pal'istan". You have the same skewed version of history shared by another poster who is of the "I saw it on YouTube do it must be true", cabal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just historical fact and not your Zionist propaganda.  I know it upsets you, but Palestine was inhabited by native Christians and Muslims before the Zionists began their invasion.  There is even documentary film confirming this fact from the late 1800s.
Click to expand...


I understand you're emotionally invested in your I_nvasion of Pal!istan™ _clichés and slogans but such tirades are not supportable by the facts.


----------



## montelatici

And for the coup de grace to your Zionist claim that there were no Christians and Muslims in Palestine when the Jew invasion began. I certainly enjoy posting source material. It puts morons like you in their place little Hollie.

From the UN archives.


*"AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*

*PALESTINE,*

*during the period*
*1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*


*AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*
*PALESTINE.*

*I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.*


There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*
*
Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)*


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> And for the coup de grace to your Zionist claim that there were no Christians and Muslims in Palestine when the Jew invasion began. I certainly enjoy posting source material. It puts morons like you in their place little Hollie.
> 
> From the UN archives.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> 
> *AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF
> PALESTINE.*
> 
> *I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.*
> 
> 
> There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)*



Your attempted coup has failed.


----------



## Hollie

*The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library*

*A Population Boom *
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. 

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Our friend "*elektra*" has it correct. 



montelatici said:


> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> *PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION*
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.


*(COMMENT)*

The "Palestine" referred to in your examples is the "Palestine" as defined in the Palestine Order in Council.  It is the short title for the "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine." 

The phrase Palestine Arabs is ment to identify regional decendents. 

The Government of Palestine administered by the High Commissioner; also defined in the Palestine Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...

Jews were invaders from Europe, in 1922? You have confused yourself, that is a very ignorant statement indeed. How about us going back to October of 1918, why did the Arabs of Palestine conquer Damascus, ignoring Jerusalem? The fact of the matter is, no Arab in 1922 ever called himself a "Palestinian". Produce any document that states what you have claimed, twice now.

This is now the second time I am asking you to simply offer some sort of History that demonstrates that Arabs in Palestine called themselves Palestinians. 

If you continue to ignore simple facts, then you are a liar and not someone that anyone can have a real discussion with.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> *The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library*
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.



Now, fiction from the Jewish Virtual Library trumps fact from official archives.  You are making a fool of yourself.


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews were invaders from Europe, in 1922? You have confused yourself, that is a very ignorant statement indeed. How about us going back to October of 1918, why did the Arabs of Palestine conquer Damascus, ignoring Jerusalem? The fact of the matter is, no Arab in 1922 ever called himself a "Palestinian". Produce any document that states what you have claimed, twice now.
> 
> This is now the second time I am asking you to simply offer some sort of History that demonstrates that Arabs in Palestine called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If you continue to ignore simple facts, then you are a liar and not someone that anyone can have a real discussion with.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians conquered Damascus.  LOL 

The Palestinian Delegation's correspondence with the British Foreign Office wasn't proof enough you idiot?


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.
Click to expand...

You are a fucking moron, literally, first you state this;


> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.


Now you refer to the Battle of Bar, which was Jews againt the Romans, how is that possible when you made the claim
there were no Jews during Roman rule.

For the record, the Battle of Bar, was in the Roman providence of Judea, after which, you can make the claim that the Romans called this area;
*Syria Palaestina*


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians conquered Damascus.  LOL
> 
> The Palestinian Delegation's correspondence with the British Foreign Office wasn't proof enough you idiot?


Who made that claim? I guess in order for you to continue your ridiculous claims, you can not quote in this thread? You must actually lie about what I stated? 

It is clear you really are an ignorant moron.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library*
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, fiction from the Jewish Virtual Library trumps fact from official archives.  You are making a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...


I understand you get angry and emotive when your attempt at argument is shown to be weak, but your silly _official archives_™ slogan is another slogan that relies on your "because I say so" demand.


----------



## rylah

MONTELATICI

I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?

Thanks for the effort.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians conquered Damascus.  LOL
> 
> The Palestinian Delegation's correspondence with the British Foreign Office wasn't proof enough you idiot?


*Howeitat*


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fucking moron, literally, first you state this;
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you refer to the Battle of Bar, which was Jews againt the Romans, how is that possible when you made the claim
> there were no Jews during Roman rule.
> 
> For the record, the Battle of Bar, was in the Roman providence of Judea, after which, you can make the claim that the Romans called this area;
> *Syria Palaestina*
Click to expand...


I stated that there were no Jews after Christianity was made the state religion of Rome. The Byzantines (a term adopted by later historians) were Romans.  Try to keep up.


----------



## elektra

rylah said:


> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.


He is confused, he/she should be stating, Druze, not Christian, or he/she should be stating three to four peoples. And lets not forget, all Arabs were not Moslems! Not at all, that is a bigoted stereotype.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fucking moron, literally, first you state this;
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you refer to the Battle of Bar, which was Jews againt the Romans, how is that possible when you made the claim
> there were no Jews during Roman rule.
> 
> For the record, the Battle of Bar, was in the Roman providence of Judea, after which, you can make the claim that the Romans called this area;
> *Syria Palaestina*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I stated that there were no Jews after Christianity was made the state religion of Rome. The Byzantines (a term adopted by later historians) were Romans.  Try to keep up.
Click to expand...

That is not what you stated, I corrected you, and now you must lie in order to try and seem credible. You should simply admit you have zero intelligence in regards to what you speak. You literally, are restating and ignoring at least 6 things I have specifically addressed that you misstated or lied about.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.



The Christians and Muslims of Palestine (when the European Zionists began migrating to the area) were the native people that lived in Palestine prior to the arrival of the European Zionists.  Is that a difficult concept to understand?


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine (when the European Zionists began migrating to the area) were the native people that lived in Palestine prior to the arrival of the European Zionists.  Is that a difficult concept to understand?
Click to expand...

No Druze? No Arabs? Every person was either Christian or Moslem? Now that is extreme ignorance, bigotry, and stereotyping of the Middle Eastern peoples.


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fucking moron, literally, first you state this;
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you refer to the Battle of Bar, which was Jews againt the Romans, how is that possible when you made the claim
> there were no Jews during Roman rule.
> 
> For the record, the Battle of Bar, was in the Roman providence of Judea, after which, you can make the claim that the Romans called this area;
> *Syria Palaestina*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I stated that there were no Jews after Christianity was made the state religion of Rome. The Byzantines (a term adopted by later historians) were Romans.  Try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what you stated, I corrected you, and now you must lie in order to try and seem credible. You should simply admit you have zero intelligence in regards to what you speak. You literally, are restating and ignoring at least 6 things I have specifically addressed that you misstated or lied about.
Click to expand...


I misstated nothing.  When Christianity was made the state religion of Rome, all non-believers were forced to convert.  Most practiced the Roman religions and were others that practiced Judaism, Zoroastrian, etc.  They became Christian.


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine (when the European Zionists began migrating to the area) were the native people that lived in Palestine prior to the arrival of the European Zionists.  Is that a difficult concept to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Druze? No Arabs? Every person was either Christian or Moslem? Now that is extreme ignorance, bigotry, and stereotyping of the Middle Eastern peoples.
Click to expand...


Arabs were Christians and Muslims, you are confusing religion with ethnicity.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine (when the European Zionists began migrating to the area) were the native people that lived in Palestine prior to the arrival of the European Zionists.  Is that a difficult concept to understand?
Click to expand...


Yes, the concept is quiet simplistic, very much vague.
What people did they constitute as a whole or were they merely religious groups? What makes them distinct from other Christians and Muslims?
What tribes did they come from?

Do you want me to rephrase those simple questions?

Thanks for the effort.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> Arabs were Christians and Muslims, you are confusing religion with ethnicity.


All Arabs practiced religion? Again, you are stereotyping people. Still no mention of the Druze? What about Bedouins? So many people left out of your simple minded equation.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine (when the European Zionists began migrating to the area) were the native people that lived in Palestine prior to the arrival of the European Zionists.  Is that a difficult concept to understand?
Click to expand...

"European Zionists began migrating"

I thought we were to understand there was a _Zionist_ _Invasion_™

Gee whiz.


----------



## montelatici

They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fucking moron, literally, first you state this;
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you refer to the Battle of Bar, which was Jews againt the Romans, how is that possible when you made the claim
> there were no Jews during Roman rule.
> 
> For the record, the Battle of Bar, was in the Roman providence of Judea, after which, you can make the claim that the Romans called this area;
> *Syria Palaestina*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I stated that there were no Jews after Christianity was made the state religion of Rome. The Byzantines (a term adopted by later historians) were Romans.  Try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what you stated, I corrected you, and now you must lie in order to try and seem credible. You should simply admit you have zero intelligence in regards to what you speak. You literally, are restating and ignoring at least 6 things I have specifically addressed that you misstated or lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I misstated nothing.  When Christianity was made the state religion of Rome, all non-believers were forced to convert.  Most practiced the Roman religions and were others that practiced Judaism, Zoroastrian, etc.  They became Christian.
Click to expand...


So those who converted suddenly lost their native tribal blood? Cohen's and Levite's ceased to exist?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?


So... the native people that lived in the Pal'istanian territories (having largely migrated from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon) suddenly became native Pal'istanian?


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs were Christians and Muslims, you are confusing religion with ethnicity.
> 
> 
> 
> All Arabs practiced religion? Again, you are stereotyping people. Still no mention of the Druze? What about Bedouins? So many people left out of your simple minded equation.
Click to expand...


You are confused.  Arab is a linguistic and cultural identification.  Much like Hispanic.  Tunisians are Arabs but they have little in common with Bedouins who are the original Arabians. Tunisians are mostly Berbers ethnically. I fear you are the simple minded one.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?



Yes, you see those nations you've mentioned have very close ties and history, but let's say French Christians are different from German, Iran Muslims are not like Saudis- an it has nothing to do with religion, those are simply different people with distinct cultures, languages and cuisines.

Is there a Palestinians language, or maybe they came from tribes unique to Palestine?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> So... the native people that lived in the Pal'istanian territories (having largely migrated from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon) suddenly became native Pal'istanian?
Click to expand...


No, Palestinians are the natives of Palestine.  The European Jews migrated to Palestine from Europe.  Try to keep up.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you see those nations you've mentioned have very close ties and history, but let's say French Christians are different from German, Iran Muslims are not like Saudis- an it has nothing to do with religion, those are simply different people with distinct cultures, languages and cuisines.
> 
> Is there a Palestinians language, or maybe they came from tribes unique to Palestine?
Click to expand...


Palestinians now speak Arabic, just as Colombians speak Spanish or Americans speak English.  Palestinians spoke Aramaic, Latin, Greek at various times.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?


Yet, you admitted you were referring to Arabs? Arabs come from Arabia, not Palestine. There are also countless examples of peoples from Palestine calling themselves, proudly, Arabs. No righteous Arab would ever claim to be of Palestine, even though they live there. They are a proud people who's ancestry is of the utmost importance. Hence they refer to themselves as Arabs first and foremost. If you knew the history, you would know that Arabs of Palestine, originated in Yemen. Sadly for you, the Arabian Peninsula was a poverty stricken hell hole, hence Arabs went to the only place with money, opportunity, and even more important, medical care. Palestine of the Jews.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> Palestinians now speak Arabic, just as Colombians speak Spanish or Americans speak English.  Palestinians spoke Aramaic, Latin, Greek at various times.


Again, another admission that you are speaking of Arabs, not Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are simply the native people that had lived in Palestine for several centuries.  They practiced different religions through the centuries.   Would you like to rephrase your question. What makes a Christian from Austria different from a Christian from Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> So... the native people that lived in the Pal'istanian territories (having largely migrated from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon) suddenly became native Pal'istanian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, Palestinians are the natives of Palestine.  The European Jews migrated to Palestine from Europe.  Try to keep up.
Click to expand...


How can Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese suddenly become native Pal'istanians?

Secondly, what happened to the _Zionist_ _Invasion_™ you have consistently rattled on about? Was that just more of your hysterical, ignorant pleading?


----------



## montelatici

Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?


----------



## montelatici

elektra said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians now speak Arabic, just as Colombians speak Spanish or Americans speak English.  Palestinians spoke Aramaic, Latin, Greek at various times.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, another admission that you are speaking of Arabs, not Palestinians.
Click to expand...


No, people from Morocco speak Arabic but they are not Arabians.  You are confused.


----------



## montelatici

montelatici said:


> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?



When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?



Yes but we don't call Germans, Irish and Dutch "native Americans" do we?

So YES in explaining who the Palestinians are IT IS important...by your standard it seems they are not more native than Americans...


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?


Which Pal'istanians spoke Arabic?  Aramaic would have been the language used most during the first century.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.
Click to expand...


Ok, then where the Jews aka Juden Cohen's and Levite's origonate from?
Russia?


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?





​


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.
Click to expand...

So... obviously you have never studied the history of the Pal'istanian territory. From one post to the next, you're befuddled about some Zionist Migration vs. a Zionist Invasion you have imagined. What is causing your befuddlement.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then where the Jews aka Juden Cohen's and Levite's origonate from?
> Russia?
Click to expand...


I have no idea.  But, the Zionist Jews were from Europe, that's a simple fact. 

*"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*

*Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... obviously you have never studied the history of the Pal'istanian territory. From one post to the next, you're befuddled about some Zionist Migration vs. a Zionist Invasion you have imagined. What is causing your befuddlement.
Click to expand...


Well, the Jews were Europeans that went to Palestine and dispossessed the people that were living there of their land.  You can call it whatever you like.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?


So... there were no other religions or ethnicities within the Pal'istanian territories? Why would you exclude the Egyptians, Syrian and Lebanese invaders in your exclusive list? Be honest, you're just trolling Wikipedia for your history, right?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?



Yes, and what about their origins? Today a Palestinian is anyone who lives in Gaza or WB (Judea) for 2 years...

We know that Jews, Levite's and Cohen's originated from Judea and Levi tribes, also lived there throughout millenniums.

What tribes constitute the Palestinians who are not Jews?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> So... there were no other religions or ethnicities within the Pal'istanian territories? Why would you exclude the Egyptians, Syrian and Lebanese invaders in your exclusive list? Be honest, you're just trolling Wikipedia for your history, right?
Click to expand...


Because there weren't any Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese invaders that transferred populations to Palestine.  No I never use Wiki as a source.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... obviously you have never studied the history of the Pal'istanian territory. From one post to the next, you're befuddled about some Zionist Migration vs. a Zionist Invasion you have imagined. What is causing your befuddlement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the Jews were Europeans that went to Palestine and dispossessed the people that were living there of their land.  You can call it whatever you like.
Click to expand...

That's remarkable. Are you claiming that the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese invaders were dispossessed of their land? Did this happen in the "country of Pal'istan"?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and what about their origins? Today a Palestinian is anyone who lives in Gaza or WB (Judea) for 2 years...
> 
> We know that Jews, Levite's and Cohen's originated from Judea and Levi tribes, also lived there throughout millenniums.
> 
> What tribes constitute the Palestinians who are not Jews?
Click to expand...


No, the European Jews are not from Palestine.  They are Europeans. You need to keep up.  They were simply European invaders that dispossessed the native people of the area.  

"The majority of Ashkenazi genetic heritage derives not from diasporic movement northward from the biblical homeland or from Near Eastern friends, but from within the indigenous peoples of Western and Central Europe.

To reach this conclusion, the researchers sequenced 74 mitochondrial genomes and analyzed more than 3,500 such genomes spanning Europe, the Caucasus, and the Near East, sweeping the entirety of Ashkenazi genealogical history. "

Genes Of Most Ashkenazi Jews Trace Back To Europe, Not Middle East


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> So... there were no other religions or ethnicities within the Pal'istanian territories? Why would you exclude the Egyptians, Syrian and Lebanese invaders in your exclusive list? Be honest, you're just trolling Wikipedia for your history, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because there weren't any Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese invaders that transferred populations to Palestine.  No I never use Wiki as a source.
Click to expand...

So.   None of the people living in the "country of Pal'istan" you apparently believe existed came from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon? 

I'll require a wiki reference for that.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter that Palestinians speak Arabic as do many other people? Does the fact that America does not have a unique language make Americans less of a people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people from another continent go to a place on another continent to take land and dispossess the native people, it's an invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... obviously you have never studied the history of the Pal'istanian territory. From one post to the next, you're befuddled about some Zionist Migration vs. a Zionist Invasion you have imagined. What is causing your befuddlement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the Jews were Europeans that went to Palestine and dispossessed the people that were living there of their land.  You can call it whatever you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's remarkable. Are you claiming that the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese invaders were dispossessed of their land? Did this happen in the "country of Pal'istan"?
Click to expand...



There were no Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese invaders that transferred populations to Palestine.  Just European Jew invaders.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> So... there were no other religions or ethnicities within the Pal'istanian territories? Why would you exclude the Egyptians, Syrian and Lebanese invaders in your exclusive list? Be honest, you're just trolling Wikipedia for your history, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because there weren't any Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese invaders that transferred populations to Palestine.  No I never use Wiki as a source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.   None of the people living in the "country of Pal'istan" you apparently believe existed came from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon?
> 
> I'll require a wiki reference for that.
Click to expand...


There are many Palestinians in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon in refugee camps, if that is what you are getting at.  But not the other way around.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and what about their origins? Today a Palestinian is anyone who lives in Gaza or WB (Judea) for 2 years...
> 
> We know that Jews, Levite's and Cohen's originated from Judea and Levi tribes, also lived there throughout millenniums.
> 
> What tribes constitute the Palestinians who are not Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the European Jews are not from Palestine.  They are Europeans. You need to keep up.  They were simply European invaders that dispossessed the native people of the area.
> 
> "The majority of Ashkenazi genetic heritage derives not from diasporic movement northward from the biblical homeland or from Near Eastern friends, but from within the indigenous peoples of Western and Central Europe.
> 
> To reach this conclusion, the researchers sequenced 74 mitochondrial genomes and analyzed more than 3,500 such genomes spanning Europe, the Caucasus, and the Near East, sweeping the entirety of Ashkenazi genealogical history. "
> 
> Genes Of Most Ashkenazi Jews Trace Back To Europe, Not Middle East
Click to expand...

The Tribes went to the Diaspora, mainly Europe, with the hope of eventually returning. Eventually they returned to Israel and reclaimed a portion of the land. WTF is that so difficult to get into your gray matter?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> So... there were no other religions or ethnicities within the Pal'istanian territories? Why would you exclude the Egyptians, Syrian and Lebanese invaders in your exclusive list? Be honest, you're just trolling Wikipedia for your history, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because there weren't any Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese invaders that transferred populations to Palestine.  No I never use Wiki as a source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.   None of the people living in the "country of Pal'istan" you apparently believe existed came from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon?
> 
> I'll require a wiki reference for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many Palestinians in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon in refugee camps, if that is what you are getting at.  But not the other way around.
Click to expand...

There were many Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese in this country of Pal'istan that you seem to believe existed. What a shame the host nations won't accept a right of return for their own.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and what about their origins? Today a Palestinian is anyone who lives in Gaza or WB (Judea) for 2 years...
> 
> We know that Jews, Levite's and Cohen's originated from Judea and Levi tribes, also lived there throughout millenniums.
> 
> What tribes constitute the Palestinians who are not Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the European Jews are not from Palestine.  They are Europeans. You need to keep up.  They were simply European invaders that dispossessed the native people of the area.
> 
> "The majority of Ashkenazi genetic heritage derives not from diasporic movement northward from the biblical homeland or from Near Eastern friends, but from within the indigenous peoples of Western and Central Europe.
> 
> To reach this conclusion, the researchers sequenced 74 mitochondrial genomes and analyzed more than 3,500 such genomes spanning Europe, the Caucasus, and the Near East, sweeping the entirety of Ashkenazi genealogical history. "
> 
> Genes Of Most Ashkenazi Jews Trace Back To Europe, Not Middle East
Click to expand...


Yes, there're European genes mixed of course, but Levite's and Cohen's have their own special DNA marker.
When you read actual scientific studies, not posts for commercial blogs, you'll find that all Jews- Mizrahi, Sephardic and Askenazi have much more in common with themselves than with surrounding ethnicities, and the common thing is the ME and Mediterranean origins.

So what tribes are Palestinians  comprised of ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I said that.  And again you don't quite understand.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)​
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT*)
> 
> And I don't think you read the links.
> 
> Did you read?   "_*terra nullius *-  _territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it."
> 
> Or did you read?  "*In international law*, a territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty is _*terra nullius*_. Sovereignty over territory which is *terra nullius* can be acquired through occupation."​
> Now, there are several other legal sources I could cite, and have cited in the past.  But I'll just simplifiy this the best I can.
> 
> But what I can say is that these issues are not isolated concepts.  There are relationships between them.  You have this idea that only a single source or concept is relevant.
> 
> Sovereignty is an extension of authority.  "*But if sovereignty is a matter of authority, it is not a matter of mere authority, but of supreme authority.*"
> Sovereignty is:
> 
> •  the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies.
> 
> •In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme authority over some polity. It is a basic principle underlying the dominant Westphalian model of state foundation.​
> You never answered the previous questions (Post #2988), so I assume you are not aware of the answers or do not understand how they relate.  "*Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order.*"  In the case of the Arab Palestinians, they cannot really be considered sovereign it they cannot exercise power and authority.  And with the Possible exception of Area "A" --- and --- in a very limited respect, the Gaza Strip, the Arab Palestinians can talk all they want about "rights;" but in fact if they don't have control or authority, they simply do not have Sovereignty.
> What is Sovereignty.
> 
> The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary) ​
> In the case of the West Bank, the Sovereignty was handed over to the Israelis by default when the Jordanians severed all ties.  It went terra nullius (Jordan abandon sovereignty).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are ignoring the different layers of sovereignty. The people are the sovereigns. Governments derive their legitimacy from the will of the people. The sovereignty of governments and states are the extension of the sovereignty of the people.

Whenever you see the standard rights to self determination, independence and sovereignty, they are always the rights of the people. States and governments are never mentioned.

From your link:

"The freedom of the nation has its correlate in the sovereignty of the nation. *Political sovereignty is the assertion of the self-determinate will of the organic people*, and in this there is the manifestation of its freedom.

Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary)​

It is a false narrative when sovereignty is passed around from government to government like poker chips. The sovereignty in Palestine always remained in the hands of the Palestinians.


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> No, people from Morocco speak Arabic but they are not Arabians.  You are confused.


now you want to talk about Morocco, I get it, you do not understand Palestine, you have been unable to address your previous posts, so now you hope to start and new argument. You really are a fool.

Your argument no longer has any relation to any point you failed to make that I called you on.


----------



## elektra

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I said that.  And again you don't quite understand.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)​
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT*)
> 
> And I don't think you read the links.
> 
> Did you read?   "_*terra nullius *-  _territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it."
> 
> Or did you read?  "*In international law*, a territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty is _*terra nullius*_. Sovereignty over territory which is *terra nullius* can be acquired through occupation."​
> Now, there are several other legal sources I could cite, and have cited in the past.  But I'll just simplifiy this the best I can.
> 
> But what I can say is that these issues are not isolated concepts.  There are relationships between them.  You have this idea that only a single source or concept is relevant.
> 
> Sovereignty is an extension of authority.  "*But if sovereignty is a matter of authority, it is not a matter of mere authority, but of supreme authority.*"
> Sovereignty is:
> 
> •  the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies.
> 
> •In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme authority over some polity. It is a basic principle underlying the dominant Westphalian model of state foundation.​
> You never answered the previous questions (Post #2988), so I assume you are not aware of the answers or do not understand how they relate.  "*Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order.*"  In the case of the Arab Palestinians, they cannot really be considered sovereign it they cannot exercise power and authority.  And with the Possible exception of Area "A" --- and --- in a very limited respect, the Gaza Strip, the Arab Palestinians can talk all they want about "rights;" but in fact if they don't have control or authority, they simply do not have Sovereignty.
> What is Sovereignty.
> 
> The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary) ​
> In the case of the West Bank, the Sovereignty was handed over to the Israelis by default when the Jordanians severed all ties.  It went terra nullius (Jordan abandon sovereignty).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the different layers of sovereignty. The people are the sovereigns. Governments derive their legitimacy from the will of the people. The sovereignty of governments and states are the extension of the sovereignty of the people.
> 
> Whenever you see the standard rights to self determination, independence and sovereignty, they are always the rights of the people. States and governments are never mentioned.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> "The freedom of the nation has its correlate in the sovereignty of the nation. *Political sovereignty is the assertion of the self-determinate will of the organic people*, and in this there is the manifestation of its freedom.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary)​
> 
> It is a false narrative when sovereignty is passed around from government to government like poker chips. The sovereignty in Palestine always remained in the hands of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Yet, there is not a Palestinian people, a term made up in the late 60's, yes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

elektra said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I said that.  And again you don't quite understand.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)​
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT*)
> 
> And I don't think you read the links.
> 
> Did you read?   "_*terra nullius *-  _territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it."
> 
> Or did you read?  "*In international law*, a territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty is _*terra nullius*_. Sovereignty over territory which is *terra nullius* can be acquired through occupation."​
> Now, there are several other legal sources I could cite, and have cited in the past.  But I'll just simplifiy this the best I can.
> 
> But what I can say is that these issues are not isolated concepts.  There are relationships between them.  You have this idea that only a single source or concept is relevant.
> 
> Sovereignty is an extension of authority.  "*But if sovereignty is a matter of authority, it is not a matter of mere authority, but of supreme authority.*"
> Sovereignty is:
> 
> •  the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies.
> 
> •In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme authority over some polity. It is a basic principle underlying the dominant Westphalian model of state foundation.​
> You never answered the previous questions (Post #2988), so I assume you are not aware of the answers or do not understand how they relate.  "*Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order.*"  In the case of the Arab Palestinians, they cannot really be considered sovereign it they cannot exercise power and authority.  And with the Possible exception of Area "A" --- and --- in a very limited respect, the Gaza Strip, the Arab Palestinians can talk all they want about "rights;" but in fact if they don't have control or authority, they simply do not have Sovereignty.
> What is Sovereignty.
> 
> The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary) ​
> In the case of the West Bank, the Sovereignty was handed over to the Israelis by default when the Jordanians severed all ties.  It went terra nullius (Jordan abandon sovereignty).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the different layers of sovereignty. The people are the sovereigns. Governments derive their legitimacy from the will of the people. The sovereignty of governments and states are the extension of the sovereignty of the people.
> 
> Whenever you see the standard rights to self determination, independence and sovereignty, they are always the rights of the people. States and governments are never mentioned.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> "The freedom of the nation has its correlate in the sovereignty of the nation. *Political sovereignty is the assertion of the self-determinate will of the organic people*, and in this there is the manifestation of its freedom.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary)​
> 
> It is a false narrative when sovereignty is passed around from government to government like poker chips. The sovereignty in Palestine always remained in the hands of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet, there is not a Palestinian people, a term made up in the late 60's, yes?
Click to expand...

No, that is just Israeli bullshit.


----------



## elektra

P F Tinmore said:


> No, that is just Israeli bullshit.


Prove it. Show us one example, like from 1894, give or take.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I said that.  And again you don't quite understand.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)​
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT*)
> 
> And I don't think you read the links.
> 
> Did you read?   "_*terra nullius *-  _territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it."
> 
> Or did you read?  "*In international law*, a territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty is _*terra nullius*_. Sovereignty over territory which is *terra nullius* can be acquired through occupation."​
> Now, there are several other legal sources I could cite, and have cited in the past.  But I'll just simplifiy this the best I can.
> 
> But what I can say is that these issues are not isolated concepts.  There are relationships between them.  You have this idea that only a single source or concept is relevant.
> 
> Sovereignty is an extension of authority.  "*But if sovereignty is a matter of authority, it is not a matter of mere authority, but of supreme authority.*"
> Sovereignty is:
> 
> •  the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies.
> 
> •In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme authority over some polity. It is a basic principle underlying the dominant Westphalian model of state foundation.​
> You never answered the previous questions (Post #2988), so I assume you are not aware of the answers or do not understand how they relate.  "*Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order.*"  In the case of the Arab Palestinians, they cannot really be considered sovereign it they cannot exercise power and authority.  And with the Possible exception of Area "A" --- and --- in a very limited respect, the Gaza Strip, the Arab Palestinians can talk all they want about "rights;" but in fact if they don't have control or authority, they simply do not have Sovereignty.
> What is Sovereignty.
> 
> The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary) ​
> In the case of the West Bank, the Sovereignty was handed over to the Israelis by default when the Jordanians severed all ties.  It went terra nullius (Jordan abandon sovereignty).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the different layers of sovereignty. The people are the sovereigns. Governments derive their legitimacy from the will of the people. The sovereignty of governments and states are the extension of the sovereignty of the people.
> 
> Whenever you see the standard rights to self determination, independence and sovereignty, they are always the rights of the people. States and governments are never mentioned.
> 
> From your link:
> 
> "The freedom of the nation has its correlate in the sovereignty of the nation. *Political sovereignty is the assertion of the self-determinate will of the organic people*, and in this there is the manifestation of its freedom.
> 
> Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary)​
> 
> It is a false narrative when sovereignty is passed around from government to government like poker chips. The sovereignty in Palestine always remained in the hands of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet, there is not a Palestinian people, a term made up in the late 60's, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, that is just Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...

Tinmore, you know that the KGB brought Arafat the Egyptian to Moscow in 1964 and they invented the name Palestinian. Dumb ass.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, Muslim and Christians were the native people that the European Jews found living in Palestine.  They, the Christians and Muslims, are the native people of Palestine.  Or, do you think there were no people in Palestine before the European Jews invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and what about their origins? Today a Palestinian is anyone who lives in Gaza or WB (Judea) for 2 years...
> 
> We know that Jews, Levite's and Cohen's originated from Judea and Levi tribes, also lived there throughout millenniums.
> 
> What tribes constitute the Palestinians who are not Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the European Jews are not from Palestine.  They are Europeans. You need to keep up.  They were simply European invaders that dispossessed the native people of the area.
> 
> "The majority of Ashkenazi genetic heritage derives not from diasporic movement northward from the biblical homeland or from Near Eastern friends, but from within the indigenous peoples of Western and Central Europe.
> 
> To reach this conclusion, the researchers sequenced 74 mitochondrial genomes and analyzed more than 3,500 such genomes spanning Europe, the Caucasus, and the Near East, sweeping the entirety of Ashkenazi genealogical history. "
> 
> Genes Of Most Ashkenazi Jews Trace Back To Europe, Not Middle East
Click to expand...


Again when referring to actual scientific research we can see that Jews throughout diaspora have very distinct similarities- DNA and culture wise:

_"Here we use high-density bead arrays to genotype individuals from 14 Jewish Diaspora communities and compare these patterns of genome-wide diversity with those from 69 Old World non-Jewish populations, of which 25 have not previously been reported. These samples were carefully chosen to provide comprehensive comparisons between Jewish and non-Jewish populations in the Diaspora, as well as with non-Jewish populations from the Middle East and north Africa. Principal component and structure-like analyses identify previously unrecognized genetic substructure within the Middle East. Most Jewish samples form a remarkably tight subcluster that overlies Druze and Cypriot samples but not samples from other Levantine populations or paired Diaspora host populations... *These results cast light on the variegated genetic architecture of the Middle East, and trace the origins of most Jewish Diaspora communities to the Levant*."

The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people.  - PubMed - NCBI_

**Now that the obvious is out the way, may I kindly ask you again to  explain specifically-  what distinct culture do Palestinians have, and most importantly what are the tribes they're comprised of?

Thanks for the effort.


----------



## P F Tinmore

elektra said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is just Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it. Show us one example, like from 1894, give or take.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?

The amended text of the Order of 24 July 1925 is worded as follows:
"Turkish citizens habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 6th day of August 1924 shall become Palestinian citizens."​Palestine Citizenship Order 1925 (articles/books/maps/cartoons/photographs/video or audio clips)


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> So what?  Does that mean that it was ok to remove and dispossess the Christians and Muslims who's ancestors had lived their for centuries to make room for European Jews.



So what?  Does that mean that it was okay to remove and dispossess the Jewish people whose ancestors had lived there for centuries to make room for Romans and Arabs?  

Why do you insist on only acknowledging Christian Romans and Arab Muslims?


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.



And you will find that after the Arab aggressions of 1948, the Israeli government RE-named the sovereign territory Israel.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> I know it upsets you, but Palestine was inhabited by native Christians and Muslims before the Zionists began their invasion.



I know it upsets you, but Israel was inhabited by native Jewish people before either the Christians or the Muslims began their invasion.  If you are going to play the we-were-here-first-game you should start with the people who were, you know, there first.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Because there weren't any Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese invaders that transferred populations to Palestine.



Neither was there any Jewish invaders who transferred populations to (territory in question).  

Certainly, Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese people bought property and moved there.  Certainly, Jewish people also did.  Why would an Arab migrating from (wherever) to the territory in question have rights there while a Jew migrating from (wherever) to the territory in question have NO rights?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure your are understanding this just yet.  Please understand what you are saying here...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, but Jordan and Egypt no longer occupy any Palestinian territory. Israel does.​
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> These are critical questions.​
> Exactly which sovereignty took control of what territory --- from what other sovereignty (in 1967)?
> 
> In August of 1988, which sovereignty abandoned what territory, leaving it in _*Terra Nulles*_ and in the effective control --- solely in the hands of what other sovereignty?​*(DEFINITIONAL)*
> 
> _*Terra Nullius*_ is a territory over which any prior sovereign of Jordan has publicly and expressly relinquished its sovereignty.  Sovereignty over territory which is *Terra Nullius* can be acquired through occupation.​Public international law, and more particularly the rules governing title to territory, does not recognise any territorial rights for nomadic peoples, remaining constant in its approach that only a settled state can exercise territorial sovereignty. The criterion of statehood requiring that a state have a defined territory has not yet been read as possibly including the nomadic use of such territory, and nomadic peoples must fit into the structure of a state in which the majority is settled. As there are very few places in the world that have a predominately nomadic population that could potentially claim statehood and challenge the present understanding of territorial sovereignty, 54 nomadic peoples must look beyond the rules governing title to territory to find ways that would allow them to claim rights over their traditional transient territories. Such an avenue has been developed for nomadic peoples under the banner of indigenous peoples’ rights, under which international law has started to acknowledge that cultural ties to territory could be the source of rights over territories for indigenous peoples. (Gilbert, 2007)
> 
> 54 See Castellino, ‘Territory and Identity in International Law: The Struggle for Self-Determination in the Western Sahara’, (1999) 28 Journal of International Studies 523.​*Disengagement from the West Bank*
> 
> On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, _*on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. *_Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The administrative severance from the1950, unanimously approved _(Jordanian & Palestinian)_
> Unification of the Two Banks
> divided by the Jordan River _(an Annexation approved under self-determination)_, withdrew both the sovereignty and the protection of the West Bank.  This knowingly and effectively left the West Bank to the Israelis.  There was no effective Arab Palestinian government _(provisional or otherwise)_ in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  The Egyptian Military Governorship rapidly withdrew rapidly in the face of an overwhelming superior force.  _(Remembering:  The All Palestine Government (APG) having been dissolved in 1959 by the Egyptian Government.  The APG, upon it disillusionment, had no further claim.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. (Must be that old government service. You people think funny like that.)
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. Look it up.
Click to expand...







 They do when the occupied accept the occupiers as the soveriegns which is what happoned in gaza and the west bank. Now you are arguing against your own links because it suits you to show the arab muslims were always under foriegn control


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, a section of Syria, not a state or a territory, a geographic part. Like the Mojave desert or the Rocky Mountains. In this case, Palestine referred to an area within Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Does that mean that it was ok to remove and dispossess the Christians and Muslims who's ancestors had lived their for centuries to make room for European Jews.  Plus having been the Roman province of Palestine for several centuries, with important cities and a large population of Christians during Roman Byzantine rule, ir wasn't the Mojave desert or the Rocky mountains, you ignorant fool.
Click to expand...







But they had not lived there for centuries had they as they were periodically removed by other factions to make way for their people. The only population unaffected was the Jews because they were not seen as a concern. You yourself have posted links explaining this and then deny that such things took place. As the world knows palestine was a term used by the Romans as an insult to the Jews, and this stuck and became the same thing in the Lingua Franca of the Christians and muslims after the demise of the Roman empire. All it was in reality was an undefined area on the map of a part of the M.E. that became a Roman province, just like the Russian Steppes or the South American Pamapas.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a very naive and over simplified concept. 



P F Tinmore said:


> It is a false narrative when sovereignty is passed around from government to government like poker chips. The sovereignty in Palestine always remained in the hands of the Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

"False Narrative?"  Authority IS NOT projected by a narrative.  Nowhere in the world is a national sovereignty maintained by a narrative.  Sovereignty is protected by a "force" --- the ability to physically answer a challenge to incursion on authority.  Sovereignty is about the rest of the territory recognizing the authority and the international recognition to the boundary to which that sovereignty extends.

Israel's international boundaries is recognized because ALL the adjacent nations realize that at the perimeter of Israeli is a force that maintains that sovereignty.  Every Palestinian, no matter what they might think of Israel, understands that beyond the threshold of the frontier  – the interior remains under full Israeli control, not because of a narrative, but because it is enforced.  And every nationality, no matter what they might think of Israel, clearly understands that the enter and exit sovereign Israeli territory under Israeli Law.  This is not dissimilar to nearly every other sovereignty in the world.

In your interpretation of:

"The freedom of the nation has its correlate in the sovereignty of the nation. *Political sovereignty is the assertion of the self-determinate will of the organic people*, and in this there is the manifestation of its freedom."​You must first understand what "assertion" means:




 ​ The part we are most interested in, is: "or exercising authority confidently and forcefully"

In 1948, the newly declared Israel HAD TO "exercising authority confidently and forcefully" in the defense of the territory, its new constituent population, and its sovereignty --- against the coalition of Arab League Forces attempting to overthrow the self-determination of the people of the Jewish National Home.  

DO NOT think for a moment, that merely putting pen-to-paper and saying you have a "right" to this that or the other thing, is sufficient to establish and maintain possession of sovereign territory.  While that might be true in an "idealized world" of the Arab Palestinians, it certainly IS NOT a reality; just ask them what territory they have sovereign control over -- supreme political authority. 

The Arab Palestinians only pretend to be a nation, as a pretext to bilk "donor nations" of their contributions.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...









 Worthless spam as the arab's had already made it clear that they would not be taking part in any meettings to discuss the formation of anything other than an islamonazi nation.  Much later the letter threatens violence and terrorism to which the LoN should have withdrawn all offers of nations and taken control as the Ottomans did. Leaving the arab muslims with nothing at all for their stupidity and behaviour. The arab leaders had already accepted the formation of a Jewish national home until the pan arab nationalist movement decided to renege on this treaty and do what they do best.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, my. You are on another of your cut and paste tirades, cutting and pasting the same articles you cut and paste across multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> Let's just remind you again that your silly "Jew invasion" slogan is just another of your misconceptions and misrepresentations.
> 
> It's a bit silly to suggest that itinerant Arabs-Moslems from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon are a "native population" of some "country of Pal'istan". You have the same skewed version of history shared by another poster who is of the "I saw it on YouTube do it must be true", cabal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just historical fact and not your Zionist propaganda.  I know it upsets you, but Palestine was inhabited by native Christians and Muslims before the Zionists began their invasion.  There is even documentary film confirming this fact from the late 1800s.
Click to expand...








 And once again you alter history to suit your POV lifted from the hate sites. The Zionists were there long before any Christian or muslim was invented , even your god was a zionist before being killed by the Romans because of his beliefs. Like all neo nazi's you think Zionism started the day it was given a name, when the reality is the concept had been around for close on 2000 years


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> And for the coup de grace to your Zionist claim that there were no Christians and Muslims in Palestine when the Jew invasion began. I certainly enjoy posting source material. It puts morons like you in their place little Hollie.
> 
> From the UN archives.
> 
> 
> *"AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF*
> 
> *PALESTINE,*
> 
> *during the period
> 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*
> 
> 
> *AN INTERIM REPORT
> ON THE
> CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
> OF
> PALESTINE.*
> 
> *I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.*
> 
> 
> There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)*








 It also says this

 It is obvious to every passing traveller, and well-known to every European resident, that the country was before the War, and is now, undeveloped and under-populated. The methods of agriculture are, for the most part, primitive; the area of land now cultivated could yield a far greater product. There are in addition large cultivable areas that are left untilled. The summits and slopes of the hills are admirably suited to the growth of trees, but there are no forests. Miles of sand dunes that could be redeemed, are untouched, a danger, by their encroachment, to the neighbouring tillage. The Jordan and the Yarmuk offer an abundance of water-power; but it is unused. Some industries--fishing and the culture and manufacture of tobacco are examples--have been killed by Turkish laws; none have been encouraged; the markets of Palestine and of the neighbouring countries are supplied almost wholly from Europe. The seaborne commerce, such as it is, is loaded and discharged in the open roadsteads of Jaffa and Haifa: there are no harbours. The religious and historical associations that offer most powerful attractions to the whole of the Western, and to a large part of the Eastern world, have hitherto brought to Palestine but a fraction of the pilgrims and travellers, who, under better conditions, would flock to her sacred shrines and famous sites.


Giving the LIE to your claims that the arab muslims owned and worked the landsand created an abundance of food............


 And your cut and paste should have as its opening   * The country is under-populated because of this lack of development.  * which would destroy your claim so you manipulate the cut and paste to suit


 Then we see this putting the Jews at the top of the tree once more

 The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. Jewish agricultural colonies were founded. They developed the culture of oranges and gave importance to the Jaffa orange trade. They cultivated the vine, and manufactured and exported wine. They drained swamps. They planted eucalyptus trees. They practised, with modern methods, all the processes of agriculture. There are at the present time 64 of these settlements, large and small, with a population of some 15,000. * Every traveller in Palestine who visits them is impressed by the contrast between these pleasant villages, with the beautiful stretches of prosperous cultivation about them and the primitive conditions of life and work by which they are surrounded.*


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library*
> 
> *A Population Boom *
> As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.
> 
> This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.
> 
> The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, fiction from the Jewish Virtual Library trumps fact from official archives.  You are making a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...







 No answer to the charges brought I see, just a deflection away from the reality that you are a proven LIAR once again


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "By early 1948 British officials were reporting that "the Arabs have suffered a series of overwhelming defeats." They added: "Jewish victories … have reduced Arab morale to zero and, following the cowardly example of their inept leaders, they are fleeing from the mixed areas in their thousands. It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, now you have it right, Jews fought Arabs, not Palestinians. The Arab's had no morale, and fled, simply because they had a fear, which, seeings how Arabs are very superstitious and prone to believing rumor, it is easy to see how they would easily flee back to the lands where they came from on hearing the Jews were defeating the Arabs. It is written in, "The Revolt", in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews were invaders from Europe, the Palestinians were the native people of Palestine.  I don't see how you can be so confused.  The Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim, were a people that attempted to stop the invasion through negotiation just after the British took over from the Ottomans, as confirmed in correspondence between the Palestinians and the British and the Zionists and the British. You are just parroting Zionist propaganda.  The facts are in the UN archives.  But, you have never done any research and have just accepted Zionist fiction.  Read the source material and weep.  The Christians and Muslims were the people of Palestine.  The European Jews were the Zionists of the Zionist Organisation.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> 
> "*Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the *People of Palestine* full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *end the Zionist *_*con-dominium, *_*put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine *— who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews were invaders from Europe, in 1922? You have confused yourself, that is a very ignorant statement indeed. How about us going back to October of 1918, why did the Arabs of Palestine conquer Damascus, ignoring Jerusalem? The fact of the matter is, no Arab in 1922 ever called himself a "Palestinian". Produce any document that states what you have claimed, twice now.
> 
> This is now the second time I am asking you to simply offer some sort of History that demonstrates that Arabs in Palestine called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If you continue to ignore simple facts, then you are a liar and not someone that anyone can have a real discussion with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians conquered Damascus.  LOL
> 
> The Palestinian Delegation's correspondence with the British Foreign Office wasn't proof enough you idiot?
Click to expand...









 NO nothing written by you is proof of anything but your constant need to LIE


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> You really should stop reading Jewish/Zionist propaganda and read some source historical material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should learn history, I would suggest Gibbons. The Fall and Decline of the Roman Empire. Romans called Judea, just that, Judea. As far as Palestine goes, they did not call the area, simply Palestine. Again, the source is Gibbons. Not Jews/Zionists, which you seem to think is one and the same, they are not. They are separate entities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would suggest you read the source documentation.  Once you do, you will find that after the battle of Bar Kokhba in 134 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the province Palaestina.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fucking moron, literally, first you state this;
> 
> 
> 
> No, Palestine was Palestine under Roman rule and was Christian for centuries. There were no Jews, it was illegal to be anything but Christian once Christianity became the Roman state religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you refer to the Battle of Bar, which was Jews againt the Romans, how is that possible when you made the claim
> there were no Jews during Roman rule.
> 
> For the record, the Battle of Bar, was in the Roman providence of Judea, after which, you can make the claim that the Romans called this area;
> *Syria Palaestina*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I stated that there were no Jews after Christianity was made the state religion of Rome. The Byzantines (a term adopted by later historians) were Romans.  Try to keep up.
Click to expand...







 So who were the people that prayed at the western wall and entered the Synagogues under Roman rule


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> MONTELATICI
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say Christians and Muslims in Palestine,but it still doesn't explain who the Palestinians were as a nation. Can you be more specific about them as a whole, what tribes did they come from, and what people did they constitute as a whole?
> Also like any other people what distinct cultural traits did they have?
> 
> Thanks for the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine (when the European Zionists began migrating to the area) were the native people that lived in Palestine prior to the arrival of the European Zionists.  Is that a difficult concept to understand?
Click to expand...






 So who were the Jews that had lived there for 4.500 years uninterupted then. Were they not also Zionists and palestinians and had as much right to the land as any of the other groups ?

 THIS SEEMS TO BE A COMPLEX AND DIFFICULT CONCEPT FOR YOU TO TAKE IN AND ACCEPT AS REALITY. YOU HAVE READ THAT THE JEWS WERE WIPED OUT AND SO THAT IS THE END OF THE JEWS IN YOUR WARPED NAZI MIND


----------



## montelatici

As confirmed by declassified British intelligence reports, the Arab armies were the only hope to prevent the illegal taking of land by force (from the native Christians and Muslims) on the part of the invading European Jews.  That they did not succeed in preventing the crime perpetrated by the murderous aggressive, marauding Jews, MaMJs is a shame, but nevertheless the Arab states are to be commended in attempting to prevent a war crime.

"Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, *Jewish* public's endorsement of their leaders'* pro-terrorist* stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'...*
The documents, which have a remarkable contemporary resonance,* reveal how British officials looked on as Jewish settlers took over more and more Arab land....*
"*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition* so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".....It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."

Far from from the* assertion *of our resident clown, AKA Rocco, and as confirmed from source material consisting of declassified contemporaneous British intelligence reports, it was the invading Jews that were the hostile murderers and the Arabs that were trying to avoid conflict.  The Christians and Muslims were, unfortunately, taken in by the British who had pledged to protect their rights.  More violent opposition to the Jewish invasion early on in the 1920s would have saved the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.






*
*


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> As confirmed by declassified British intelligence reports, the Arab armies were the only hope to prevent the illegal taking of land by force (from the native Christians and Muslims) on the part of the invading European Jews.  That they did not succeed in preventing the crime perpetrated by the murderous aggressive, marauding Jews, MaMJs is a shame, but nevertheless the Arab states are to be commended in attempting to prevent a war crime.
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, *Jewish* public's endorsement of their leaders'* pro-terrorist* stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'...*
> The documents, which have a remarkable contemporary resonance,* reveal how British officials looked on as Jewish settlers took over more and more Arab land....*
> "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition* so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".....It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> Far from from the* assertion *of our resident clown, AKA Rocco, and as confirmed from source material consisting of declassified contemporaneous British intelligence reports, it was the invading Jews that were the hostile murderers and the Arabs that were trying to avoid conflict.  The Christians and Muslims were, unfortunately, taken in by the British who had pledged to protect their rights.  More violent opposition to the Jewish invasion early on in the 1920s would have saved the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.
> 
> 
> View attachment 95895


The Lad is on another cut and paste tirade.

Anyway, I'm not convinced that commending Arab-Islamist intransigence, ineptitude and incompetence is necessarily productive or helpful.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

We are a Century apart in our conversation.



montelatici said:


> Far from from the* assertion *of our resident clown, AKA Rocco, and as confirmed from source material consisting of declassified contemporaneous British intelligence reports, it was the invading Jews that were the hostile murderers and the Arabs that were trying to avoid conflict.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm in the 21st Century.  I'm not assessing what happened over the first few decades of the 20th Century.  The issues of today are about the safety and security of the region, Israel  and the protection of the Jewish National Home.

Nothing that happened over a 100 years, sanctioned by the Allied Powers, and at the direction through a Mandate by the Council of the League of Nations is going to change the outcomes in place today. 

You  may call it an "invasion" if you want.  I'll just read my - clown script - "putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty (having full title and rights to the territory), and adopted by the Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," - and the intent of His Britannic Majesty's Government to "facilitate Jewish immigration" --- as well as the intent --- to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home.

BTW:  In my past life, I have had the opportunity to read many - many - Intelligence Information Reports (IIRs), Diplomatic Cables, Contact Reports (CRs) and Agent Reports (ARs).  These things are written by the boat load.  One report, without any significant collaboration means less than nothing.  And having written many IIRs, CRs and ARs, I can tell you that they are not all as accurate as we would like them to be.  In my entire career, I don't think ever saw a level anyone who had a complete picture of any situation or condition.  And that alone makes a difference in the perception between someone at the grassroots level (like myself) and the pie in the sky White NSC that never worked a day in the field.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## elektra

montelatici said:


> As confirmed by declassified British intelligence reports, the Arab armies were the only hope to prevent the illegal taking of land by force (from the native Christians and Muslims) on the part of the invading European Jews.  That they did not succeed in preventing the crime perpetrated by the murderous aggressive, marauding Jews, MaMJs is a shame, but nevertheless the Arab states are to be commended in attempting to prevent a war crime.
> 
> "Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, *Jewish* public's endorsement of their leaders'* pro-terrorist* stance and declare *armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'...*
> The documents, which have a remarkable contemporary resonance,* reveal how British officials looked on as Jewish settlers took over more and more Arab land....*
> "*Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition* so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".....It is now obvious that the only hope of regaining their position lies in the regular armies of the Arab states."
> 
> Far from from the* assertion *of our resident clown, AKA Rocco, and as confirmed from source material consisting of declassified contemporaneous British intelligence reports, it was the invading Jews that were the hostile murderers and the Arabs that were trying to avoid conflict.  The Christians and Muslims were, unfortunately, taken in by the British who had pledged to protect their rights.  More violent opposition to the Jewish invasion early on in the 1920s would have saved the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.
> 
> 
> View attachment 95895


Quote and link to the report so we can see if they used the term Palestinian. The report does not call Arabs, Palestinians. That is why I have challenged you to prove another of your assertions. Thus far you have now ignored 8 assertions you have made that I proved were lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very naive and over simplified concept.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a false narrative when sovereignty is passed around from government to government like poker chips. The sovereignty in Palestine always remained in the hands of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "False Narrative?"  Authority IS NOT projected by a narrative.  Nowhere in the world is a national sovereignty maintained by a narrative.  Sovereignty is protected by a "force" --- the ability to physically answer a challenge to incursion on authority.  Sovereignty is about the rest of the territory recognizing the authority and the international recognition to the boundary to which that sovereignty extends.
> 
> Israel's international boundaries is recognized because ALL the adjacent nations realize that at the perimeter of Israeli is a force that maintains that sovereignty.  Every Palestinian, no matter what they might think of Israel, understands that beyond the threshold of the frontier  – the interior remains under full Israeli control, not because of a narrative, but because it is enforced.  And every nationality, no matter what they might think of Israel, clearly understands that the enter and exit sovereign Israeli territory under Israeli Law.  This is not dissimilar to nearly every other sovereignty in the world.
> 
> In your interpretation of:
> 
> "The freedom of the nation has its correlate in the sovereignty of the nation. *Political sovereignty is the assertion of the self-determinate will of the organic people*, and in this there is the manifestation of its freedom."​You must first understand what "assertion" means:
> 
> View attachment 95871​The part we are most interested in, is: "or exercising authority confidently and forcefully"
> 
> In 1948, the newly declared Israel HAD TO "exercising authority confidently and forcefully" in the defense of the territory, its new constituent population, and its sovereignty --- against the coalition of Arab League Forces attempting to overthrow the self-determination of the people of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> DO NOT think for a moment, that merely putting pen-to-paper and saying you have a "right" to this that or the other thing, is sufficient to establish and maintain possession of sovereign territory.  While that might be true in an "idealized world" of the Arab Palestinians, it certainly IS NOT a reality; just ask them what territory they have sovereign control over -- supreme political authority.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians only pretend to be a nation, as a pretext to bilk "donor nations" of their contributions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You did not address the most important part of my post.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

*I apologize.*



P F Tinmore said:


> You did not address the most important part of my post.


*(QUESTION)*

What did I miss?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *I apologize.*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not address the most important part of my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What did I miss?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The parts that explains my conclusion and your rant ignores.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *I apologize.*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not address the most important part of my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What did I miss?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The parts that explains my conclusion and your rant ignores.
Click to expand...

That sidestepping and deflection was totally predictable. 

_How does that address my comments?_™


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *I apologize.*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not address the most important part of my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What did I miss?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The parts that explains my conclusion and your rant ignores.
Click to expand...








 He did it is just that you ignored them again because you had no argument to respond with, other than your usual deflections and derailments.

 Cue islamonazi propaganda youtube video


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Vivien Sansour*

*First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops *

Vivien Sansour, the library founder said, “What’s more symbolic and yet literal than the seed itself?” Farmers who have been role models in terms of developing seeds and passing them down over generations, are now losing this identity. We, as Palestinians, are losing what makes us who we are, which is our seed.”

“We make it a point to highlight that this is not a seed bank but a library, because you plant a seed that’s borrowed with the hope that it will grow, and you return it so other generations can make use of it,” said Nader Wahbeh, director of the science education project at the Qattan Foundation.

*First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops (VIDEO)*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Vivien Sansour*
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops *
> 
> Vivien Sansour, the library founder said, “What’s more symbolic and yet literal than the seed itself?” Farmers who have been role models in terms of developing seeds and passing them down over generations, are now losing this identity. We, as Palestinians, are losing what makes us who we are, which is our seed.”
> 
> “We make it a point to highlight that this is not a seed bank but a library, because you plant a seed that’s borrowed with the hope that it will grow, and you return it so other generations can make use of it,” said Nader Wahbeh, director of the science education project at the Qattan Foundation.
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops (VIDEO)*










Old technology as we have had these in the UK for over 100 years, the only stipulation is that you return a viable seed to the repository. This is why we have so many heritage crops available to the amateur gardener, purple carrots anyone ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Vivien Sansour*
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops *
> 
> Vivien Sansour, the library founder said, “What’s more symbolic and yet literal than the seed itself?” Farmers who have been role models in terms of developing seeds and passing them down over generations, are now losing this identity. We, as Palestinians, are losing what makes us who we are, which is our seed.”
> 
> “We make it a point to highlight that this is not a seed bank but a library, because you plant a seed that’s borrowed with the hope that it will grow, and you return it so other generations can make use of it,” said Nader Wahbeh, director of the science education project at the Qattan Foundation.
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops (VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old technology as we have had these in the UK for over 100 years, the only stipulation is that you return a viable seed to the repository. This is why we have so many heritage crops available to the amateur gardener, purple carrots anyone ?
Click to expand...

Indeed, people are doing that all over the world. Otherwise the world will have nothing but Monsanto Frankenfood.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Vivien Sansour*
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops *
> 
> Vivien Sansour, the library founder said, “What’s more symbolic and yet literal than the seed itself?” Farmers who have been role models in terms of developing seeds and passing them down over generations, are now losing this identity. We, as Palestinians, are losing what makes us who we are, which is our seed.”
> 
> “We make it a point to highlight that this is not a seed bank but a library, because you plant a seed that’s borrowed with the hope that it will grow, and you return it so other generations can make use of it,” said Nader Wahbeh, director of the science education project at the Qattan Foundation.
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops (VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old technology as we have had these in the UK for over 100 years, the only stipulation is that you return a viable seed to the repository. This is why we have so many heritage crops available to the amateur gardener, purple carrots anyone ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, people are doing that all over the world. Otherwise the world will have nothing but Monsanto Frankenfood.
Click to expand...

Indeed. It's too bad that the Arab-Moslem Death Cult cares more for plant life than human life.


----------



## SAYIT

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Old technology as we have had these in the UK for over 100 years, the only stipulation is that you return a viable seed to the repository...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, people are doing that all over the world. Otherwise the world will have nothing but Monsanto Frankenfood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. It's too bad that the Arab-Moslem Death Cult cares more for plant life than human life.
Click to expand...


According to the son of Hamas's co-founder that is true at least of Hamasniks and is actually taught to Arab kids starting at age 5. Teaching and preaching hate to 5 yr olds is child abuse ... these kids don't stand a chance of being productive adults:

“Hamas does not care about the lives of Palestinians, or the lives of Israelis, or Americans; they don’t care about their own lives,” Yousef told CNN in a recent interview. “They consider dying for their ideology a way of worship.”

“In the mosques, Hamas taught us that without shedding innocent blood for the sake of the ideology, we wouldn’t be able to build an Islamic state. They were preparing us from the age as young as 5 years old. This is the ideology that Hamas was feeding us. And honestly, it’s impossible almost for anybody to break through and see the truth and real face of Hamas and be able to leave at some point,” he said.

“As you see in my case, I had to lose everything just to say no to Hamas. And today when I look at the children of Gaza and I know what they’re fed, I know that they have no choice.”

Israel praised by Hamas co-founder’s son | New York Post


----------



## montelatici

Should Palestinian children be taught to thank the Israeli Jews for invading Palestine, dispossessing them and expelling them and/or oppressing them?  Just curious as to what you think Palestinian children should be taught vis-a-vis the Israeli Jews.  

Polish children were certainly not taught to thank the Germans for invading Poland during occupation. Why do you think the Christians and Muslims of Palestine should think differently about the Israeli Jews?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Should Palestinian children be taught to thank the Israeli Jews for invading Palestine, dispossessing them and expelling them and/or oppressing them?  Just curious as to what you think Palestinian children should be taught vis-a-vis the Israeli Jews.
> 
> Polish children were certainly not taught to thank the Germans for invading Poland during occupation. Why do you think the Christians and Muslims of Palestine should think differently about the Israeli Jews?


Well, actually, Arab-Moslem children are fed a lot of ideologically inspired hate not only directed at Jews but for all kuffar. The same polluted backwash that you learn at your madrassah and dump into these forums is the same polluted backwash that is hammered into the little hateful islamo-bots in the areas occupied by Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal'istanians.


----------



## montelatici

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.

But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.



You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land. 

You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
Click to expand...

Typical colonialist thinking.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
Click to expand...


The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".
Click to expand...

Palestine was created by post WWI treaties. That was before my time.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created by post WWI treaties. That was before my time.
Click to expand...

That's curious about this mythical country of Pal'istan as it was not until the late 1960's that Yassir "I don't have aids" Arafat invented the 'Pal'istanian' people and assigned an invented national identity.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created by post WWI treaties. That was before my time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's curious about this mythical country of Pal'istan as it was not until the late 1960's that Yassir "I don't have aids" Arafat invented the 'Pal'istanian' people and assigned an invented national identity.
Click to expand...


Interesting that the Palestine Arab Delegation was in London in 1922 negotiating with the British for their independence. Seems that your Zionist propaganda is debunked again. Give it up, fool.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created by post WWI treaties. That was before my time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's curious about this mythical country of Pal'istan as it was not until the late 1960's that Yassir "I don't have aids" Arafat invented the 'Pal'istanian' people and assigned an invented national identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting that the Palestine Arab Delegation was in London in 1922 negotiating with the British for their independence. Seems that your Zionist propaganda is debunked again. Give it up, fool.
> 
> View attachment 96856
Click to expand...


It seems you're a believer in whatever propaganda is slathered on you by the prayer leader at your madrassah.

You found a pamphlet with the label "Pal'istan". How silly.

Be sure to next cut and paste the "Pal'istanian" passport that is a staple of the more excitable cut and pasters. Unfortunately, it's a British passport.

Islamist propaganda debunked as usual.

What a hoot.


----------



## montelatici

No, it is the cover page of the official report of the British Foreign office that compiled the correspondence between the British Foreign Office the Palestinian Delegation and the Zionist Organization. 

You must enjoy looking the fool. Posting fantasy and nonsense propaganda when it so easily debunked through official, archived Government documents. What a hoot you are.

*"PALESTINE.*​*CORRESPONDENCE 
WITH THE
PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
AND THE 
ZIONIST ORGANISATION.​*​*Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
JUNE, 1922.
LONDON:
​If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.

*




*PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.*
*To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the*
*following address:*
*Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:*
*York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;*
*15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*


*1922.*
*
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...48a7e5584ee1403485256cd8006c3fbe?OpenDocument*


----------



## Hollie

I suppose we only have to grind through the first article of the fascist PLO charter to understand what islamo-fascism is all about. 

*The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter*

*Text of the Charter:*
*Article 1:*
Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.


----------



## montelatici

Of course Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Of course Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people.



Well actually, it was the "homeland" of absentee land grabbers / foreign invaders from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon as per the official records.

www.haaretz.com/news/turkey-transfers-ottoman-land-records-to-palestinian-authority-1.171734


----------



## montelatici

No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.

"These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."

read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority



Well actually, the desert lands didn't flourish until Israel brought modern farming techniques unknown to the arabs-moslems.

I'm actually grateful that you originally posted the link not knowing that the article thoroughly refuted your position.

Thanks for that.

Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority


----------



## Hossfly

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well actually, the desert lands didn't flourish until Israel brought modern farming techniques unknown to the arabs-moslems.
> 
> I'm actually grateful that you originally posted the link not knowing that the article thoroughly refuted your position.
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
Click to expand...

One thing we do know, Hollie, is that it was the Jews who represented the Palestine region at the 1939 World's Fair.

Jewish Palestine Pavilion - Community Interests Zone


----------



## Hollie

Hossfly said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well actually, the desert lands didn't flourish until Israel brought modern farming techniques unknown to the arabs-moslems.
> 
> I'm actually grateful that you originally posted the link not knowing that the article thoroughly refuted your position.
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One thing we do know, Hollie, is that it was the Jews who represented the Palestine region at the 1939 World's Fair.
> 
> Jewish Palestine Pavilion - Community Interests Zone
Click to expand...


Yep. And it was the Pal'istanians who later represented themselves at the 1972 Olympics.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well actually, the desert lands didn't flourish until Israel brought modern farming techniques unknown to the arabs-moslems.
> 
> I'm actually grateful that you originally posted the link not knowing that the article thoroughly refuted your position.
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
Click to expand...

 

More Zionist propaganda.  Here are the facts, on film you idiot.

Watch Full Episodes Online of 1913: Seeds of Conflict on PBS | A Zionist Slogan


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well actually, the desert lands didn't flourish until Israel brought modern farming techniques unknown to the arabs-moslems.
> 
> I'm actually grateful that you originally posted the link not knowing that the article thoroughly refuted your position.
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More Zionist propaganda.  Here are the facts, on film you idiot.
> 
> Watch Full Episodes Online of 1913: Seeds of Conflict on PBS | A Zionist Slogan
Click to expand...


Something for the angry monty.

Palestinian Terrorism | Jewish Virtual Library


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Vivien Sansour*
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops *
> 
> Vivien Sansour, the library founder said, “What’s more symbolic and yet literal than the seed itself?” Farmers who have been role models in terms of developing seeds and passing them down over generations, are now losing this identity. We, as Palestinians, are losing what makes us who we are, which is our seed.”
> 
> “We make it a point to highlight that this is not a seed bank but a library, because you plant a seed that’s borrowed with the hope that it will grow, and you return it so other generations can make use of it,” said Nader Wahbeh, director of the science education project at the Qattan Foundation.
> 
> *First Seed Library in Palestine to Preserve Ancient Seeds Crops (VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old technology as we have had these in the UK for over 100 years, the only stipulation is that you return a viable seed to the repository. This is why we have so many heritage crops available to the amateur gardener, purple carrots anyone ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, people are doing that all over the world. Otherwise the world will have nothing but Monsanto Frankenfood.
Click to expand...






 So why try and claim that it is something really special when the arab muslims calling themselves palestinians steal it and use it as theirs ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Should Palestinian children be taught to thank the Israeli Jews for invading Palestine, dispossessing them and expelling them and/or oppressing them?  Just curious as to what you think Palestinian children should be taught vis-a-vis the Israeli Jews.
> 
> Polish children were certainly not taught to thank the Germans for invading Poland during occupation. Why do you think the Christians and Muslims of Palestine should think differently about the Israeli Jews?








 They could start with the truth that you fail to hide even when you put posters on ignore. That islam was not invented until 627 C.E. and stole Jewish lands starting with Medina in 635 C.E. That according to their god palestine was the Jewish home and they should be allowed to live there in peace. That the arab muslims waging war on the Jews are breaching islamic holy laws and should face islamic justice.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.







They should be thankfull they were treated as the arab muslims would have treated them, there would not be a filastin left alive today would there. They were late arrivals to the lands if you want to use your usual criteria making the Jews the rightful owners.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
Click to expand...







 And it was the arab muslims colonists thinking this way


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I think you are trying to propagate the Zionist fantasy that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionist began their invasion.  That is pure propaganda and fantasy.  Everyone knows you are full of shit on that issue.
> 
> But, I ask again, should Christian and Muslim native Palestinians be taught to thank the Jews for dispossessing, evicting and now oppressing them?  I think you people are loonies.  It's like asking the Jews to thank the Nazis FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created by post WWI treaties. That was before my time.
Click to expand...








 WRONG it was created by the Roman Empire back in 70 C.E. as an insult to the Jews and their nation. So the only thing you got right was it was before your time


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're still befuddled. The invasion of your invented "county of Pal'istan" (you don't yet understand that there never was a "country of Pal'istan"), was actually a function of foreigners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon squatting the land.
> 
> You should thank the Jews for bringing an educated, modern society to the geographic area.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical colonialist thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamist mindset is one that presumes an entitlement. As we know from the official Ottoman records, it was foreign islamist colonists / land grabbers who you nonsensically label as "Pal'istanians" who inhabited your farcical invention of a "country" you invented and which you call "Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created by post WWI treaties. That was before my time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's curious about this mythical country of Pal'istan as it was not until the late 1960's that Yassir "I don't have aids" Arafat invented the 'Pal'istanian' people and assigned an invented national identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting that the Palestine Arab Delegation was in London in 1922 negotiating with the British for their independence. Seems that your Zionist propaganda is debunked again. Give it up, fool.
> 
> View attachment 96856
Click to expand...








 The name given by the LoN and the British, not by the arab delegation


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> No, it is the cover page of the official report of the British Foreign office that compiled the correspondence between the British Foreign Office the Palestinian Delegation and the Zionist Organization.
> 
> You must enjoy looking the fool. Posting fantasy and nonsense propaganda when it so easily debunked through official, archived Government documents. What a hoot you are.
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:
> *​*If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
> To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
> following address:
> Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
> York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
> 15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*
> 
> 
> *1922.
> 
> https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...48a7e5584ee1403485256cd8006c3fbe?OpenDocument*








The name given by the LoN and the British, not by the arab muslims.    Read your own links and see what they say


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Of course Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people.










 But not the Jewish palestinian people or the Christian palestinian people, as this is what you have just stated


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority









 So youi dont understand English now,   previously as in before this time, as opposed to now at this moment in time. So who was the land leaded to at the time of the report ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the article states clearly that the lands were farmed by the native Palestinians.  Try to keep up.  While I am grateful that you post links that debunk your positions, it's not necessary.
> 
> "These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers...."
> 
> read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well actually, the desert lands didn't flourish until Israel brought modern farming techniques unknown to the arabs-moslems.
> 
> I'm actually grateful that you originally posted the link not knowing that the article thoroughly refuted your position.
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More Zionist propaganda.  Here are the facts, on film you idiot.
> 
> Watch Full Episodes Online of 1913: Seeds of Conflict on PBS | A Zionist Slogan
Click to expand...








 Cant see the signs round the actors necks saying Jew, Christian or terrorist ?


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  et al,

Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.



montelatici said:


> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine,​*end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​


*(COMMENT)*

*First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.

*Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.

*Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.  

*Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.

*Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council." ​
In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.

I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.



			
				  The Quote for the Day!  said:
			
		

> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Posting from propaganda sites again.  Try using historical fact rather than propaganda to make your point (as difficult as that will be), you will look a little less the fool, if that's possible.


----------



## SAYIT

montelatici said:


> Should Palestinian children be taught to thank the Israeli Jews for invading Palestine, dispossessing them and expelling them and/or oppressing them?



They need to be taught hate in order to serve the nefarious agenda of people like ... YOU. Perhaps teaching them the truth rather than the electronicintifada BS you spew here would be appropriate. Teaching them hate simply insures the next generation of cannon fodder for your "cause." 

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...ds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHXPE2u4k2BHtuCT_rNsn46USWb6g


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Posting from propaganda sites again.  Try using historical fact rather than propaganda to make your point (as difficult as that will be), you will look a little less the fool, if that's possible.












Is your you tube channel historical fact then, or is it your islamocatholic propaganda


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."​
So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.

Good plan!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."​
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> 
> Good plan!
Click to expand...


If you had bothered to study history, you would have discovered that it was the arabs (arab league nations), that, beginning in 1948, started wars aimed at the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."​
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> 
> Good plan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you had bothered to study history, you would have discovered that it was the arabs (arab league nations), that, beginning in 1948, started wars aimed at the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

Pffft! Load of Israeli crap.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."​
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> 
> Good plan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you had bothered to study history, you would have discovered that it was the arabs (arab league nations), that, beginning in 1948, started wars aimed at the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! Load of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...


I see. So you have your own version of history?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."​
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> 
> Good plan!
Click to expand...








 NO   that was the arab muslims that stuck to their religious commands and paid a heavy price. From 1914 every act of war has originated from an arab muslim action, and you try to paint them as lily white peaceful farmers. Who attacked the peaceful Jews in Jerusalem from 1919 and then instigated a civil war against them in 1929 leading to mass murders in Hebron ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."​
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> 
> Good plan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you had bothered to study history, you would have discovered that it was the arabs (arab league nations), that, beginning in 1948, started wars aimed at the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! Load of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...






This is not supporting your claim, it is just showing you as a complete idiot who stamps his feet when he cant get his own way.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

The point is that the British Mandatory, having been appointed and approved by the Allied Powers of the day, no intention withdrawing from the obligation to assist in the "Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds
for reconstituting their national home."

While it was envisioned _*(as an element of the process)*_ that the Jewish People would develop the country to the advantage of all its inhabitants --- it was not envisioned that Arabs of Palestine would actively resist positive development and encourage violent and unlawful behavior.  In the first decades of the 20th Century, the Allied Powers and the Mandatory saw regional economic growth as a means of expanding human choices should be the ultimate criteria for assessing development results.  History has shown that the level of development achieved by the Jewish National Home (JNH) would have _(and did)_ greatly benefited all the inhabitants.  And that benefit would have extended and included the displaced Arab Palestinian --- had they not actively posed a threat to the sovereignty and independence of the JNH.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."
> 
> 
> 
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> Good plan!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Some pro-Palestinian viewers and supporters hold this view.  Certainly, the British Mandatory was a catalyst --- increasing the growth of a Jewish-Arab Conflict without itself undergoing any permanent political change.  However, the Arab Community, in general, maintained various corrosive policies, which are still visible today.  And the Arab Community began to assume that discussions and conference decisions that were held between the Allied Powers and then introduced to the defeated Central Powers (in this case the Ottoman Empire) were for the benefit of the Arab Inhabitants; and somehow represented a binding commitment obligations to the various Arab Communities.  THAT WOULD BE INCORRECT.  The Treaties of Sevres, and later Lausanne, no matter its impact on the various Arab Communities, does not establish a binding obligation to the Arabs.  Nor did the Covenant of the League of Nations form the basis of any obligation or promises to the various Arab Communities.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic entered into a treaty and set of agreements with the Allied Powers; NOT any aspect of the Arab Communities.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounced in favor of the Allied Powers --- all rights and title to the territory under this discussion.  And while the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) might argue that this or that agreement of binding device compels the Allied Powers to do this or that, from 1922 until the conclusion of WWII, the future of these territories settled or to be settled by the parties concerned were in the hands of the Allied Powers; NOT in the hands of the defeated inhabitants under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and the follow-on Civil Administration.

The question of who "the dumbfuck" was that "started a hundred year (and counting) war" is probably based on the agitator _*(Haj Muhammad Amin al-Husseini, a demobilized Ottoman Army Officer, turned cleric for unknown nefarious reasons)*_ of the *1920 Nebi Musa (Old City of Jerusalem) riots*, under British OETA control.   

*In March, the coup was carried out in Damascus and Faisal was installed as king, in Palestine there were riots - against the Jews*

The spring of 1920 was chosen for action. In March, the coup was carried out in Damascus and Faisal was installed as king. In order to achieve a sizeable riot in Palestine, the country (in the words of the subsequent military Court of Enquiry) was "infested with Sherifian officers." who carried on a lurid agitation against the Jews. As the court noted euphemistically, the administration took no action against them.

On the Wednesday before Easter, Col. Waters-Taylor had a meeting in Jerusalem with Haj Amin el Husseini and told him "that he had a great opportunity at Easter to show the world that the Arabs of Palestine would not tolerate Jewish domination in Palestine; that Zionism was unpopular not only with the Palestine Administration but in Whitehall; and if disturbances of sufficient violence occurred in Jerusalem at Easter, both General Bols and General Allenby would advocate the abandonment of the Jewish Home" _*(Meinertzhagen, pp. 81-82)*_. ​
It might be easy to claim that the actions of one man _*("the dumbfuck")*_, who you blame for starting the Century long war (Churchill).   There is evidence that the violence was started by a small cliche of British Military Officers  actively working against the Crown and Whitehall.  They set the conditions for the 1920 Riots.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding, blah, blah, blah.​
You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.

IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The point is that the British Mandatory, having been appointed and approved by the Allied Powers of the day, no intention withdrawing from the obligation to assist in the "Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds
> for reconstituting their national home."
> 
> While it was envisioned _*(as an element of the process)*_ that the Jewish People would develop the country to the advantage of all its inhabitants --- it was not envisioned that Arabs of Palestine would actively resist positive development and encourage violent and unlawful behavior.  In the first decades of the 20th Century, the Allied Powers and the Mandatory saw regional economic growth as a means of expanding human choices should be the ultimate criteria for assessing development results.  History has shown that the level of development achieved by the Jewish National Home (JNH) would have _(and did)_ greatly benefited all the inhabitants.  And that benefit would have extended and included the displaced Arab Palestinian --- had they not actively posed a threat to the sovereignty and independence of the JNH.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."
> 
> 
> 
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> Good plan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some pro-Palestinian viewers and supporters hold this view.  Certainly, the British Mandatory was a catalyst --- increasing the growth of a Jewish-Arab Conflict without itself undergoing any permanent political change.  However, the Arab Community, in general, maintained various corrosive policies, which are still visible today.  And the Arab Community began to assume that discussions and conference decisions that were held between the Allied Powers and then introduced to the defeated Central Powers (in this case the Ottoman Empire) were for the benefit of the Arab Inhabitants; and somehow represented a binding commitment obligations to the various Arab Communities.  THAT WOULD BE INCORRECT.  The Treaties of Sevres, and later Lausanne, no matter its impact on the various Arab Communities, does not establish a binding obligation to the Arabs.  Nor did the Covenant of the League of Nations form the basis of any obligation or promises to the various Arab Communities.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic entered into a treaty and set of agreements with the Allied Powers; NOT any aspect of the Arab Communities.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounced in favor of the Allied Powers --- all rights and title to the territory under this discussion.  And while the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) might argue that this or that agreement of binding device compels the Allied Powers to do this or that, from 1922 until the conclusion of WWII, the future of these territories settled or to be settled by the parties concerned were in the hands of the Allied Powers; NOT in the hands of the defeated inhabitants under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and the follow-on Civil Administration.
> 
> The question of who "the dumbfuck" was that "started a hundred year (and counting) war" is probably based on the agitator _*(Haj Muhammad Amin al-Husseini, a demobilized Ottoman Army Officer, turned cleric for unknown nefarious reasons)*_ of the *1920 Nebi Musa (Old City of Jerusalem) riots*, under British OETA control.
> 
> *In March, the coup was carried out in Damascus and Faisal was installed as king, in Palestine there were riots - against the Jews*
> 
> The spring of 1920 was chosen for action. In March, the coup was carried out in Damascus and Faisal was installed as king. In order to achieve a sizeable riot in Palestine, the country (in the words of the subsequent military Court of Enquiry) was "infested with Sherifian officers." who carried on a lurid agitation against the Jews. As the court noted euphemistically, the administration took no action against them.
> 
> On the Wednesday before Easter, Col. Waters-Taylor had a meeting in Jerusalem with Haj Amin el Husseini and told him "that he had a great opportunity at Easter to show the world that the Arabs of Palestine would not tolerate Jewish domination in Palestine; that Zionism was unpopular not only with the Palestine Administration but in Whitehall; and if disturbances of sufficient violence occurred in Jerusalem at Easter, both General Bols and General Allenby would advocate the abandonment of the Jewish Home" _*(Meinertzhagen, pp. 81-82)*_.​
> It might be easy to claim that the actions of one man _*("the dumbfuck")*_, who you blame for starting the Century long war (Churchill).   There is evidence that the violence was started by a small cliche of British Military Officers  actively working against the Crown and Whitehall.  They set the conditions for the 1920 Riots.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The question of who "the dumbfuck" was that "started a hundred year (and counting) war" is probably based on, blah, blah, blah.​
No it was the British dumbfucks. There would be no war without them.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding, blah, blah, blah.​
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
Click to expand...






WRONG AGAIN  as this is what the arab muslims want. They have it in their power to bring an end to the occupation and the blockade, but they refuse to take the steps needed as it will mean they would have to start working for a living. Under international laws Israel has to lift the blockade and lift the occupation if the arab muslims stop all forms of violence, terrorism and belligerence for the period of 1 year. Going on past evidence they would be lucky to last 1 week.


 The palestinian economy is doing very well, that is the true palestinian economy of Israel and Jordan. It is the terrorist enclaves economy that sucks because they refuse to be human being and live in peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding, blah, blah, blah.​
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG AGAIN  as this is what the arab muslims want. They have it in their power to bring an end to the occupation and the blockade, but they refuse to take the steps needed as it will mean they would have to start working for a living. Under international laws Israel has to lift the blockade and lift the occupation if the arab muslims stop all forms of violence, terrorism and belligerence for the period of 1 year. Going on past evidence they would be lucky to last 1 week.
> 
> 
> The palestinian economy is doing very well, that is the true palestinian economy of Israel and Jordan. It is the terrorist enclaves economy that sucks because they refuse to be human being and live in peace.
Click to expand...

This is all part of Britain's war.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The point is that the British Mandatory, having been appointed and approved by the Allied Powers of the day, no intention withdrawing from the obligation to assist in the "Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds
> for reconstituting their national home."
> 
> While it was envisioned _*(as an element of the process)*_ that the Jewish People would develop the country to the advantage of all its inhabitants --- it was not envisioned that Arabs of Palestine would actively resist positive development and encourage violent and unlawful behavior.  In the first decades of the 20th Century, the Allied Powers and the Mandatory saw regional economic growth as a means of expanding human choices should be the ultimate criteria for assessing development results.  History has shown that the level of development achieved by the Jewish National Home (JNH) would have _(and did)_ greatly benefited all the inhabitants.  And that benefit would have extended and included the displaced Arab Palestinian --- had they not actively posed a threat to the sovereignty and independence of the JNH.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."
> 
> 
> 
> So the dumbfuck started a hundred year (and counting) war.
> Good plan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some pro-Palestinian viewers and supporters hold this view.  Certainly, the British Mandatory was a catalyst --- increasing the growth of a Jewish-Arab Conflict without itself undergoing any permanent political change.  However, the Arab Community, in general, maintained various corrosive policies, which are still visible today.  And the Arab Community began to assume that discussions and conference decisions that were held between the Allied Powers and then introduced to the defeated Central Powers (in this case the Ottoman Empire) were for the benefit of the Arab Inhabitants; and somehow represented a binding commitment obligations to the various Arab Communities.  THAT WOULD BE INCORRECT.  The Treaties of Sevres, and later Lausanne, no matter its impact on the various Arab Communities, does not establish a binding obligation to the Arabs.  Nor did the Covenant of the League of Nations form the basis of any obligation or promises to the various Arab Communities.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic entered into a treaty and set of agreements with the Allied Powers; NOT any aspect of the Arab Communities.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounced in favor of the Allied Powers --- all rights and title to the territory under this discussion.  And while the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) might argue that this or that agreement of binding device compels the Allied Powers to do this or that, from 1922 until the conclusion of WWII, the future of these territories settled or to be settled by the parties concerned were in the hands of the Allied Powers; NOT in the hands of the defeated inhabitants under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and the follow-on Civil Administration.
> 
> The question of who "the dumbfuck" was that "started a hundred year (and counting) war" is probably based on the agitator _*(Haj Muhammad Amin al-Husseini, a demobilized Ottoman Army Officer, turned cleric for unknown nefarious reasons)*_ of the *1920 Nebi Musa (Old City of Jerusalem) riots*, under British OETA control.
> 
> *In March, the coup was carried out in Damascus and Faisal was installed as king, in Palestine there were riots - against the Jews*
> 
> The spring of 1920 was chosen for action. In March, the coup was carried out in Damascus and Faisal was installed as king. In order to achieve a sizeable riot in Palestine, the country (in the words of the subsequent military Court of Enquiry) was "infested with Sherifian officers." who carried on a lurid agitation against the Jews. As the court noted euphemistically, the administration took no action against them.
> 
> On the Wednesday before Easter, Col. Waters-Taylor had a meeting in Jerusalem with Haj Amin el Husseini and told him "that he had a great opportunity at Easter to show the world that the Arabs of Palestine would not tolerate Jewish domination in Palestine; that Zionism was unpopular not only with the Palestine Administration but in Whitehall; and if disturbances of sufficient violence occurred in Jerusalem at Easter, both General Bols and General Allenby would advocate the abandonment of the Jewish Home" _*(Meinertzhagen, pp. 81-82)*_.​
> It might be easy to claim that the actions of one man _*("the dumbfuck")*_, who you blame for starting the Century long war (Churchill).   There is evidence that the violence was started by a small cliche of British Military Officers  actively working against the Crown and Whitehall.  They set the conditions for the 1920 Riots.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question of who "the dumbfuck" was that "started a hundred year (and counting) war" is probably based on, blah, blah, blah.​
> No it was the British dumbfucks. There would be no war without them.
Click to expand...









 Who instigated the war, and under what terms was it instigated. The last I looked it was the arab muslims led by the mufti who told his serfs to attack the Jews and take their land from them. Nothing to do with the British that is just the islamonazi excuse for them starting all the wars.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  et al,
> 
> Yes, well the passage you copied is quite interesting.  These exchanges start months before the formal Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, *
> end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First:*  While the implementation of the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate, was a pre-framed policy, the policy was in keeping with the Agreement and Mandate.  The British Government did not simply pull it out of the air.
> 
> *Second:*  There simply was NO the joint control of the territory's affairs.  The control of the territory was invested in His Majesty's Government, as outlined in the San Remo Agreement through the Council Mandate.  This single accent of control began with the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), and the follow-on Civil Administration that began in mid-1920.
> 
> *Third:*  In terms of the ---- "Right and Experience" to best judges as to "what is good and bad" for the territory under the Civil Administration --- the following 95 years of Arab Palestinian leadership result would surely demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> *Fourth:*  Immigration:  In the response to the Letter you cited, the response by the Colonial Office included:  "Mr. Churchill regrets to observe that his personal explanations have apparently failed to convince your Delegation that His Majesty's Government have no intention "of repudiating the obligations" into which they have entered towards the Jewish people."  This was a clear _(most crystal clear)_ that the British Government reject or reverse policies associated with previous leaders or decisions made by the Allied Powers on the matter.
> 
> *Finally:*  The response also stated that "Mr. Churchill takes this opportunity of explaining to you that no administrative action will be taken in Palestine, whether on the advice of the Zionist Organisation or otherwise, except through the constitutional channels ultimately prescribed by the Constitution in its final form. He is ready if it is considered necessary to insert a provision to this effect in the draft Order in Council."​
> In the time, close to a century now, the Arab Palestinians _(excluding the citizens of Jordan or Israel)_ have yet to establish any unified law at the highest level; let alone any meet the Article 22 Criteria.  Even today, dependeng of the Palestinian you talk to, and the attitude of their faction, will disagree on who is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian People.
> 
> I reccommend that you don't waste time looking backwards to find flaws; since the timeline cannot be changed; what is --- is --- what is.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian should look to the future.  IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quote for the Day!  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given events in Arab states today, the question remains an open one. *T*_*he Arab Spring also refuted the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the central problem in the Arab world today.*_ This issue is at present not at the heart of the Arab agenda today, but it may return there due to unexpected events or the decisions of Arab rulers. It should be noted that most liberals do not see the conflict as the cause which delayed the democratization of the Arab world, but rather an issue exploited by Arab rulers to distract their subjects from their poor condition.
> *Source:* *Why Arab Liberals Had No Chance*
> _Tzvi Mazel, an orientalist and Israeli diplomat, served as Israel’s ambassador in Egypt, Romania, and Sweden. Today he serves as a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding, blah, blah, blah.​
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG AGAIN  as this is what the arab muslims want. They have it in their power to bring an end to the occupation and the blockade, but they refuse to take the steps needed as it will mean they would have to start working for a living. Under international laws Israel has to lift the blockade and lift the occupation if the arab muslims stop all forms of violence, terrorism and belligerence for the period of 1 year. Going on past evidence they would be lucky to last 1 week.
> 
> 
> The palestinian economy is doing very well, that is the true palestinian economy of Israel and Jordan. It is the terrorist enclaves economy that sucks because they refuse to be human being and live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is all part of Britain's war.
Click to expand...









 Nothing to do with Britain as we were not around when mo'mad issued the command from his god to " KILL THE JEWS "


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come-on now ---- get real.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.

That is not illegal.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
Click to expand...

Isn't that interesting. The 'Pal'istanian' Islamic terrorist attacks at the Munich Olympics was "legal" in your mind?

Pal'istanians attacking Israeli citizens with knives is a legal act?

How courageous of you to flail your Pom Poms for such degenerate acts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't that interesting. The 'Pal'istanian' Islamic terrorist attacks at the Munich Olympics was "legal" in your mind?
> 
> Pal'istanians attacking Israeli citizens with knives is a legal act?
> 
> How courageous of you to flail your Pom Poms for such degenerate acts.
Click to expand...

Why should they have to follow the law when Israel doesn't?

The solution is for the world to start enforcing the law. BDS is trying to kick that loose.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't that interesting. The 'Pal'istanian' Islamic terrorist attacks at the Munich Olympics was "legal" in your mind?
> 
> Pal'istanians attacking Israeli citizens with knives is a legal act?
> 
> How courageous of you to flail your Pom Poms for such degenerate acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should they have to follow the law when Israel doesn't?
> 
> The solution is for the world to start enforcing the law. BDS is trying to kick that loose.
Click to expand...

That's really quite interesting. You excuse criminal acts / acts of islamic terrorism for the fulfillment of the Hamas Charter.

Your comment in connection with "the world" enforcing the law is quite interesting. Should "the world" not enforce the law as it relates to acts of Pal'istanian Islamic terrorism?


----------



## RoccoR

_P F Tinmore, et al,_

Yeah, and you are, by trying to justify this, are inciting the continuation of violence.  Normally we talk, using the mentally deranged and psychopathic Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an example.  But I thought I would change-up here and use the Palestinian Authority (PA) as an example.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

For the moment, we will set aside *Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention* _(commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ and *Rule #6 the Customary International Humanitarian Law* (IHL)_(Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities)_.  We will just look at the Rome Statue _(Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity)_ of the international Criminal Court .

_*Palestinian Authority Immediately Honors Terrorist Who Murdered 2, Wounded 6*_
Published Oct 9, 2016 _By: Itamar Marcus/Palestinian Media Watch_

_PA President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party rushed to declare the Palestinian terrorist who carried out a deadly attack on Sunday a martyr._

In two separate posts on its official Facebook page, Palestinian Authority (PA) leader Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement honored the terrorist murderer who went on a shooting spree in Jerusalem Sunday, targeting people who were waiting at train stations from his car. Terrorist Musbah Abu Sbeih murdered a 60-year-old woman and a policeman, and injured 6.

Fatah referred to the murderer as a “_Shahid_,” an Islamic Martyr – someone who died for Allah – a status the Palestinian Authority presents as the highest achievement a Muslim can reach in life.​This is an example of the Palestinian People and their Government praising an act which in turn encourages more of the same; as opposed to UN *Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624* (2005) _(imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and incitement to violence)_, Paragraphs 1-4; which we will also set aside.  NO! We will just look at *Article 7 (1) (a) Murder*...

[Excerpt]
Since article 7 pertains to international criminal law, its provisions, consistent with article 22, must be strictly construed, taking into account that *crimes against humanity as defined in article 7 are among the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole*, warrant and entail individual criminal responsibility, and require conduct which is impermissible under generally applicable international law, as recognized by the principal legal systems of the world.​


√  Element 1:  Yes Murdered 2
√  Element 2:  Yes:  The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) conduct was committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population since 1968, as part of the Armed Struggle in Article 9,  Palestine National Charter.  As praised by the PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

*MAJORITY OF PALESTINIANS SUPPORT KNIFE ATTACKS, UNLESS THE ATTACKER IS A YOUNG GIRL*
BY JACK MOORE ON 12/16/15
Two-thirds of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip support the current spate of knife attacks against Israelis on the streets of Israel and the Palestinian territories—but almost three-quarters disapprove of young girls doing the stabbing, according to a new poll released on Tuesday.​√  Element 3:  Yes,* incitement to violence and glorification of terrorism* emanating from PA and Fatah officials and institutions. 

*Fatah Militants Mull Resuming Terror Against Israel*
by AARON KLEIN AND ALI WAKED 2 Nov 2016
*The commanders of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Fatah’s military wing, have been mulling the possibility of turning their guns against Israel and the Palestinian Authority’s “despots,” a top Brigade militant told Breitbart Jerusalem.​​*The militant said that since the end of the second intifada, and the amnesty agreement that was reached with Israel shortly after Hamas’ takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, “the occupation only deepened, and corruption in the PA only widened. The people are desperate for a game change that would turn the tables and bring the Palestinian question back to the top of the agenda.”​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
Click to expand...







 Depends on your definition of resistance. Attacking civilians is not resistance, targetting children is not resistance, breaching international laws is not resistance, committing war crimes is not resistance. Firing illegal weapons across borders is not resistance, breaching the UN charter is not resistance and breaching UN resolutions is not resistance.


 So how have they resisted the occupation that is not illegal or a breach of law


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't that interesting. The 'Pal'istanian' Islamic terrorist attacks at the Munich Olympics was "legal" in your mind?
> 
> Pal'istanians attacking Israeli citizens with knives is a legal act?
> 
> How courageous of you to flail your Pom Poms for such degenerate acts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should they have to follow the law when Israel doesn't?
> 
> The solution is for the world to start enforcing the law. BDS is trying to kick that loose.
Click to expand...








 And when has Israel not followed " the law" give instances of the acts and the resulting court cases ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on your definition of resistance. Attacking civilians is not resistance, targetting children is not resistance, breaching international laws is not resistance, committing war crimes is not resistance. Firing illegal weapons across borders is not resistance, breaching the UN charter is not resistance and breaching UN resolutions is not resistance.
> 
> 
> So how have they resisted the occupation that is not illegal or a breach of law
Click to expand...

Look at the rules of occupation. Israel violates virtually all of them.

Settlers are a necessary and integral part of the occupation. Are they "innocent" civilians?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.



In point of fact the specific actions the Palestinians have taken are most certainly illegal.  

The best way for the Palestinians to "resist the occupation" is not low-level terrorism and murder of innocents. That accomplishes nothing but entrenching the Palestinian mentality.  If Palestine really wanted to "resist" the occupation they would properly elect a government, develop an economy and trade relations with their neighbors, funnel the humanitarian aide they receive into building world-class (or at least Arab-class) education facilities, hospitals, and infrastructure for the management of resources (especially water).  That would sure show them evil Zionists, wouldn't it?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Settlers are a necessary and integral part of the occupation. Are they "innocent" civilians?



Oh come now.  Are you REALLY asking this?  In the context of international law?  Let alone morality and basic human decency.


----------



## Shusha

Some not innocent civilians:  








It is perfectly acceptable to kill them, because they are not actually "innocents".

You, Tinman, are vile for even suggesting such a thing.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settlers are a necessary and integral part of the occupation. Are they "innocent" civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come now.  Are you REALLY asking this?  In the context of international law?
Click to expand...

The lad has an unhealthy fascination with inciting others to violence. I believe his world revolves around hoping for the next 'Pal'istanian' terror attack. Dead Pal'istanians, as the result of the inevitable IDF response, gives him justification for his hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> Yeah, and you are, by trying to justify this, are inciting the continuation of violence.  Normally we talk, using the mentally deranged and psychopathic Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an example.  But I thought I would change-up here and use the Palestinian Authority (PA) as an example.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the moment, we will set aside *Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention* _(commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ and *Rule #6 the Customary International Humanitarian Law* (IHL)_(Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities)_.  We will just look at the Rome Statue _(Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity)_ of the international Criminal Court .
> _*Palestinian Authority Immediately Honors Terrorist Who Murdered 2, Wounded 6*_
> Published Oct 9, 2016 _By: Itamar Marcus/Palestinian Media Watch_
> 
> _PA President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party rushed to declare the Palestinian terrorist who carried out a deadly attack on Sunday a martyr._
> 
> In two separate posts on its official Facebook page, Palestinian Authority (PA) leader Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement honored the terrorist murderer who went on a shooting spree in Jerusalem Sunday, targeting people who were waiting at train stations from his car. Terrorist Musbah Abu Sbeih murdered a 60-year-old woman and a policeman, and injured 6.
> 
> Fatah referred to the murderer as a “_Shahid_,” an Islamic Martyr – someone who died for Allah – a status the Palestinian Authority presents as the highest achievement a Muslim can reach in life.​This is an example of the Palestinian People and their Government praising an act which in turn encourages more of the same; as opposed to UN *Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624* (2005) _(imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and incitement to violence)_, Paragraphs 1-4; which we will also set aside.  NO! We will just look at *Article 7 (1) (a) Murder*...
> [Excerpt]
> Since article 7 pertains to international criminal law, its provisions, consistent with article 22, must be strictly construed, taking into account that *crimes against humanity as defined in article 7 are among the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole*, warrant and entail individual criminal responsibility, and require conduct which is impermissible under generally applicable international law, as recognized by the principal legal systems of the world.​View attachment 97235​√  Element 1:  Yes Murdered 2
> √  Element 2:  Yes:  The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) conduct was committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population since 1968, as part of the Armed Struggle in Article 9,  Palestine National Charter.  As praised by the PA President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> *MAJORITY OF PALESTINIANS SUPPORT KNIFE ATTACKS, UNLESS THE ATTACKER IS A YOUNG GIRL*
> BY JACK MOORE ON 12/16/15
> Two-thirds of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip support the current spate of knife attacks against Israelis on the streets of Israel and the Palestinian territories—but almost three-quarters disapprove of young girls doing the stabbing, according to a new poll released on Tuesday.​√  Element 3:  Yes,* incitement to violence and glorification of terrorism* emanating from PA and Fatah officials and institutions.
> *Fatah Militants Mull Resuming Terror Against Israel*
> by AARON KLEIN AND ALI WAKED 2 Nov 2016
> *The commanders of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Fatah’s military wing, have been mulling the possibility of turning their guns against Israel and the Palestinian Authority’s “despots,” a top Brigade militant told Breitbart Jerusalem.
> *
> The militant said that since the end of the second intifada, and the amnesty agreement that was reached with Israel shortly after Hamas’ takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, “the occupation only deepened, and corruption in the PA only widened. The people are desperate for a game change that would turn the tables and bring the Palestinian question back to the top of the agenda.”​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you post half a page about *two* Israelis.

Where was your post about the Palestinian deaths?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> Yeah, and you are, by trying to justify this, are inciting the continuation of violence.  Normally we talk, using the mentally deranged and psychopathic Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an example.  But I thought I would change-up here and use the Palestinian Authority (PA) as an example.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the moment, we will set aside *Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention* _(commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ and *Rule #6 the Customary International Humanitarian Law* (IHL)_(Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities)_.  We will just look at the Rome Statue _(Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity)_ of the international Criminal Court .
> _*Palestinian Authority Immediately Honors Terrorist Who Murdered 2, Wounded 6*_
> Published Oct 9, 2016 _By: Itamar Marcus/Palestinian Media Watch_
> 
> _PA President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party rushed to declare the Palestinian terrorist who carried out a deadly attack on Sunday a martyr._
> 
> In two separate posts on its official Facebook page, Palestinian Authority (PA) leader Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement honored the terrorist murderer who went on a shooting spree in Jerusalem Sunday, targeting people who were waiting at train stations from his car. Terrorist Musbah Abu Sbeih murdered a 60-year-old woman and a policeman, and injured 6.
> 
> Fatah referred to the murderer as a “_Shahid_,” an Islamic Martyr – someone who died for Allah – a status the Palestinian Authority presents as the highest achievement a Muslim can reach in life.​This is an example of the Palestinian People and their Government praising an act which in turn encourages more of the same; as opposed to UN *Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624* (2005) _(imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and incitement to violence)_, Paragraphs 1-4; which we will also set aside.  NO! We will just look at *Article 7 (1) (a) Murder*...
> [Excerpt]
> Since article 7 pertains to international criminal law, its provisions, consistent with article 22, must be strictly construed, taking into account that *crimes against humanity as defined in article 7 are among the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole*, warrant and entail individual criminal responsibility, and require conduct which is impermissible under generally applicable international law, as recognized by the principal legal systems of the world.​View attachment 97235​√  Element 1:  Yes Murdered 2
> √  Element 2:  Yes:  The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) conduct was committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population since 1968, as part of the Armed Struggle in Article 9,  Palestine National Charter.  As praised by the PA President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> *MAJORITY OF PALESTINIANS SUPPORT KNIFE ATTACKS, UNLESS THE ATTACKER IS A YOUNG GIRL*
> BY JACK MOORE ON 12/16/15
> Two-thirds of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip support the current spate of knife attacks against Israelis on the streets of Israel and the Palestinian territories—but almost three-quarters disapprove of young girls doing the stabbing, according to a new poll released on Tuesday.​√  Element 3:  Yes,* incitement to violence and glorification of terrorism* emanating from PA and Fatah officials and institutions.
> *Fatah Militants Mull Resuming Terror Against Israel*
> by AARON KLEIN AND ALI WAKED 2 Nov 2016
> *The commanders of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Fatah’s military wing, have been mulling the possibility of turning their guns against Israel and the Palestinian Authority’s “despots,” a top Brigade militant told Breitbart Jerusalem.
> *
> The militant said that since the end of the second intifada, and the amnesty agreement that was reached with Israel shortly after Hamas’ takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, “the occupation only deepened, and corruption in the PA only widened. The people are desperate for a game change that would turn the tables and bring the Palestinian question back to the top of the agenda.”​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you post half a page about *two* Israelis.
> 
> Where was your post about the Palestinian deaths?
Click to expand...

The deaths of Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal'istanians are directly attributable to your heroes in one or more of the Islamic terrorist syndicates finding support and financing in Gaza and the West Bank. Your heroes, Islamic terrorist kingpins, have every reason to maintain the conflict as it keeps the UNRWA welfare spigot flowing. Dead Pal'istanians are a cost of doing business.

 Islam means "submission", right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> Yeah, and you are, by trying to justify this, are inciting the continuation of violence.  Normally we talk, using the mentally deranged and psychopathic Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an example.  But I thought I would change-up here and use the Palestinian Authority (PA) as an example.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the moment, we will set aside *Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention* _(commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ and *Rule #6 the Customary International Humanitarian Law* (IHL)_(Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities)_.  We will just look at the Rome Statue _(Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity)_ of the international Criminal Court .
> _*Palestinian Authority Immediately Honors Terrorist Who Murdered 2, Wounded 6*_
> Published Oct 9, 2016 _By: Itamar Marcus/Palestinian Media Watch_
> 
> _PA President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party rushed to declare the Palestinian terrorist who carried out a deadly attack on Sunday a martyr._
> 
> In two separate posts on its official Facebook page, Palestinian Authority (PA) leader Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement honored the terrorist murderer who went on a shooting spree in Jerusalem Sunday, targeting people who were waiting at train stations from his car. Terrorist Musbah Abu Sbeih murdered a 60-year-old woman and a policeman, and injured 6.
> 
> Fatah referred to the murderer as a “_Shahid_,” an Islamic Martyr – someone who died for Allah – a status the Palestinian Authority presents as the highest achievement a Muslim can reach in life.​This is an example of the Palestinian People and their Government praising an act which in turn encourages more of the same; as opposed to UN *Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624* (2005) _(imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and incitement to violence)_, Paragraphs 1-4; which we will also set aside.  NO! We will just look at *Article 7 (1) (a) Murder*...
> [Excerpt]
> Since article 7 pertains to international criminal law, its provisions, consistent with article 22, must be strictly construed, taking into account that *crimes against humanity as defined in article 7 are among the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole*, warrant and entail individual criminal responsibility, and require conduct which is impermissible under generally applicable international law, as recognized by the principal legal systems of the world.​View attachment 97235​√  Element 1:  Yes Murdered 2
> √  Element 2:  Yes:  The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) conduct was committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population since 1968, as part of the Armed Struggle in Article 9,  Palestine National Charter.  As praised by the PA President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> *MAJORITY OF PALESTINIANS SUPPORT KNIFE ATTACKS, UNLESS THE ATTACKER IS A YOUNG GIRL*
> BY JACK MOORE ON 12/16/15
> Two-thirds of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip support the current spate of knife attacks against Israelis on the streets of Israel and the Palestinian territories—but almost three-quarters disapprove of young girls doing the stabbing, according to a new poll released on Tuesday.​√  Element 3:  Yes,* incitement to violence and glorification of terrorism* emanating from PA and Fatah officials and institutions.
> *Fatah Militants Mull Resuming Terror Against Israel*
> by AARON KLEIN AND ALI WAKED 2 Nov 2016
> *The commanders of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Fatah’s military wing, have been mulling the possibility of turning their guns against Israel and the Palestinian Authority’s “despots,” a top Brigade militant told Breitbart Jerusalem.
> *
> The militant said that since the end of the second intifada, and the amnesty agreement that was reached with Israel shortly after Hamas’ takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, “the occupation only deepened, and corruption in the PA only widened. The people are desperate for a game change that would turn the tables and bring the Palestinian question back to the top of the agenda.”​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you post half a page about *two* Israelis.
> 
> Where was your post about the Palestinian deaths?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deaths of Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal'istanians are directly attributable to your heroes in one or more of the Islamic terrorist syndicates finding support and financing in Gaza and the West Bank. Your heroes, Islamic terrorist kingpins, have every reason to maintain the conflict as it keeps the UNRWA welfare spigot flowing. Dead Pal'istanians are a cost of doing business.
> 
> Islam means "submission", right?
Click to expand...

What Israeli propaganda site did you get all that crap?

Link?


----------



## Shusha

Hey, here's a fun test of your morality:

When is it permissible to target innocent people?

Whenever you can feign a moral high ground by claiming the ends justify the means.
Whenever its legal, as long as you get to define the laws.
Whenever it is not legal, as long as someone else is also breaking laws.
When they live on land that is "yours".
Whenever you feel like it, as long as you don't kill too many.
Whenever you want, if your society glorifies it.
When they belong to an ethnic group different from your own. 
Whenever Allah tells you to.
When you can purchase heaven for yourself with the death of one. 
Never.  Ever.  


Tinman has hit the first five in only the last few posts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settlers are a necessary and integral part of the occupation. Are they "innocent" civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come now.  Are you REALLY asking this?  In the context of international law?  Let alone morality and basic human decency.
Click to expand...

Speaking about morality and basic human decency.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Speaking about morality and basic human decency.



You dodged my question.  So what do you want me to say?  Do you want me to AGREE with you that children aren't innocents? And are therefore legitimate targets for killing?

Nope.  Won't do it.  People who live in a place where you don't want them to live are innocents.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking about morality and basic human decency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dodged my question.  So what do you want me to say?  Do you want me to AGREE with you that children aren't innocents? And are therefore legitimate targets for killing?
> 
> Nope.  Won't do it.  People who live in a place where you don't want them to live are innocents.
Click to expand...

Where is your outrage about the Samouni family?


----------



## Shusha

Where is your own outrage for your own suggestion that targeting and killing babies is permissible!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Where is your own outrage for the suggestion that targeting and killing babies is permissible!


Where is yours?


----------



## montelatici

Do you think that the American Indians would have been justified in being more aggressive in attacking (and killing) European settlers in attempt to save their people and culture?


----------



## Shusha

You want my outrage for the Samouni family?  Here it is:

People, like you, who portray innocents as viable targets for killing because you don't like them living on land which you think belongs to you exclusively or who are of the "wrong" ethnic group are vile, heinous, toxic and barbaric.  

People, like you, who justify the ideology of jihad are vile, heinous, toxic and barbaric.

People like the Palestinians who prolong a war because sharing is inconceivable and "normalizing" relations with Jews is abhorrent are vile, heinous, toxic and barbaric.  

Governments who rob their citizens of resources needed to live healthy lives and waste it on some futile low-impact battle of ideology which says no one else can ever live here except us, especially not the Jews, are vile, heinous, toxic and barbaric.  

That enough outrage for you?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your own outrage for the suggestion that targeting and killing babies is permissible!
> 
> 
> 
> Where is yours?
Click to expand...


I have NEVER said that targeting and killing babies is permissible.  You have suggested this very thing.  

The fact that you turn tables is a decoy to avoid discussing your own vile ideology.  If you have the GUTS to post it, you should have the GUTS to discuss it.  Own it or take it back.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Do you think that the American Indians would have been justified in being more aggressive in attacking (and killing) European settlers in attempt to save their people and culture?



Well, "more" is ambiguous.

Do you think the American peoples are justified in attacking First Nations peoples should the First Nations peoples ask for and attempt to achieve self-determination?  Do you think that the American peoples should use violence as a method of preventing First Nations sovereignty over a portion of the territory?  Do you think it is legit for the US to invite Canada and Mexico to the party to prevent First Nations independence?


----------



## montelatici

It has nothing to do with now.  The native American's culture has been destroyed their numbers were reduced to a point they could no longer resist they have been concentrated into "reservations" and are under complete control of the invading Europeans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your own outrage for the suggestion that targeting and killing babies is permissible!
> 
> 
> 
> Where is yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have NEVER said that targeting and killing babies is permissible.  You have suggested this very thing.
> 
> The fact that you turn tables is a decoy to avoid discussing your own vile ideology.  If you have the GUTS to post it, you should have the GUTS to discuss it.  Own it or take it back.
Click to expand...

*Own this!*

Last updated July 25, 2014

Children killed.

TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 131

TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Palestinians: 1656

Remember These Children


----------



## Shusha

So, no, you don't have the GUTS to own up to what you said and have to change the subject to hide your own vile ideology.  Gotcha.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Do you think that the American Indians would have been justified in being more aggressive in attacking (and killing) European settlers in attempt to save their people and culture?


Do you think that the Jewish people are not justified in defending themselves from Islamic terrorists who have a written charter that outlines their intention to kill every last Jew?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking about morality and basic human decency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dodged my question.  So what do you want me to say?  Do you want me to AGREE with you that children aren't innocents? And are therefore legitimate targets for killing?
> 
> Nope.  Won't do it.  People who live in a place where you don't want them to live are innocents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your outrage about the Samouni family?
Click to expand...

Hamas laughs at them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> So, no, you don't have the GUTS to own up to what you said and have to change the subject to hide your own vile ideology.  Gotcha.


I didn't justify killing children. I am just pointing out your racism.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, no, you don't have the GUTS to own up to what you said and have to change the subject to hide your own vile ideology.  Gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't justify killing children. I am just pointing out your racism.
Click to expand...


So you take back what you implied then and agree with me that killing children and other innocents is a vile ideology and you apologize for making the implication that it was permissible to kill children or that children are not "innocents".


----------



## montelatici

Could you point out the part of this "written charter" where it "outlines their intention to kill every last Jew"?  I must have missed it with all the nutty Islamist hyperbole it contains if it is the Hamas Covenant you are referring to.  

While invading/settling lands the native people will usually exhibit resistance by said native people.  The invaders/settlers have the right to defend themselves from the attacks of the native people, but the native people have the right to attempt resist the invasion/settlement/colonization their ancestors had lived on for generations.  Of course, it would have been preferable had the Zionists not invaded Palestine which is the cause of the conflict.


----------



## RoccoR

_P F Tinmore, et al,_

Oh --- get off the "perpetual victim" crutch.... 



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you post half a page about *two* Israelis.
> Where was your post about the Palestinian deaths?


*(OBSERVATION)*

In the mid-19th Century, there was a Prussian Major General (Carl von Clausewitz) who wrote on the Western theory of War; focused on the moral and political components.  But MG von Clausewitz is most famous for noting the realization that:

•  "war is the continuation of politics by other means"​This is very applicable in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP).  In the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) Report of  A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948 --- it was conspicuously noted that "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."  This was a practical application of the von Clausewitz observation:

In the case of the HoAP, what they could not achieve through diplomatic and political efforts, they chose to adopt a quisi-militaristic and asymmetric strategy wherein they attempt to establish the perception that they are NOT subject to the Rules of War _(Law of Land Warfare)_.   And, as part of the continuation - the strategy would be to lure the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) into a series of ethical dilemmas where each tactical choice is equally damaging to the the world perception of Israel.  The damned if you do --- damned if you don't position.

In the months immediately prior to the Israeli Operation Protective Edge, the HoAP had fired some 4000 Rockets into Israel --- and --- abducted and murdered three Israeli teenagers.  In the year 2013, in the run-up to the 2014 confrontation, the IDF, the General Security Services _(Israeli Counterintelligence and Internal Security)_, in conjunction with the Palestinian Authority (PA) neutralized more than 5 dozen terrorist events. The stated goals and intention _(Saleh al-Arouri, a HAMAS Leader based in Turkey)_: "Our goal was to ignite an intifada in the West Bank and Jerusalem, as well as within the 1948 borders..."​There was very little question that the HoAP wanted to initiate a confrontation; but in order to make it appear that the Arab Palestinians were the victims of aggression, the HoAP had to induce the Israelis to launch first.  In that way, under the UN Definition, the FIRST use of armed force by Israel  constitute _*prima facie*_ evidence of an act of aggression.  This is not a new tactic, but a tried and true tactic used by hostile Arab nations attempting to garner political support and sympathy.  It was used very effectively in the 1967 Six-Day War by the Egyptians by forcing the UNEF-I (First UN Emergency Force) and then running up nearly 800,000 troops and nearly 900 Russian Tanks up to the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Line, triggering a preemptive attackby the Israelis.​
*(COMMENT)*

You are not paying attention.  The discussion was actually based on the morality and ethics of the action.  Not the effectiveness of the force itself.  The ratio of Israelis to Arab Palestinians that are killed is a matter of competence and effectiveness of the fighting force.  It has nothing to do with the question of legality.

In the case of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge, the HoAP in Gaza intentionally, with purpose and intent --- with the grave measure of depraved indifference to human life, set-out with the intention of luring the IDF into the dilemma of responding to engagements.  The HoAP set the conditions to place the maximum number of civilian casualties by:

•  The HoAP, to the extent feasible, intentionally placed military objectives in close proximity to (or actually in) densely populated areas.
•  The HoAP, intentionally ignored the requirement to relocate civilians and protected facilities under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
By doing so, the IDF can either not responde, giving the HoAP a location immune from counterattack; or --- the IDF can attack, nuetralizing the HoAP military advantage, under the condition of causing an exagerrated number of civilian casualties.  In either choice, the advantage goes to the HoAP in the tactical effort or the propaganda effort.

*(AGAIN)*

This has absolutley nothing to do with the ratios of Israeli to Arab Palestinian dead.  In fact, you use of that response is example of one side of the dilemma.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Could you point out the part of this "written charter" where it "outlines their intention to kill every last Jew"?  I must have missed it with all the nutty Islamist hyperbole it contains if it is the Hamas Covenant you are referring to.
> 
> While invading/settling lands the native people will usually exhibit resistance by said native people.  The invaders/settlers have the right to defend themselves from the attacks of the native people, but the native people have the right to attempt resist the invasion/settlement/colonization their ancestors had lived on for generations.  Of course, it would have been preferable had the Zionists not invaded Palestine which is the cause of the conflict.


_The Zionists_™ invaded a "country of Pal'istan"? Never found any indication of that. 

Have you banged your head too hard on your prayer mat again?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> Oh --- get off the "perpetual victim" crutch....
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you post half a page about *two* Israelis.
> Where was your post about the Palestinian deaths?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> In the mid-19th Century, there was a Prussian Major General (Carl von Clausewitz) who wrote on the Western theory of War; focused on the moral and political components.  But MG von Clausewitz is most famous for noting the realization that:
> 
> •  "war is the continuation of politics by other means"​This is very applicable in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP).  In the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) Report of  A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948 --- it was conspicuously noted that "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."  This was a practical application of the von Clausewitz observation:
> In the case of the HoAP, what they could not achieve through diplomatic and political efforts, they chose to adopt a quisi-militaristic and asymmetric strategy wherein they attempt to establish the perception that they are NOT subject to the Rules of War _(Law of Land Warfare)_.   And, as part of the continuation - the strategy would be to lure the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) into a series of ethical dilemmas where each tactical choice is equally damaging to the the world perception of Israel.  The damned if you do --- damned if you don't position.
> 
> In the months immediately prior to the Israeli Operation Protective Edge, the HoAP had fired some 4000 Rockets into Israel --- and --- abducted and murdered three Israeli teenagers.  In the year 2013, in the run-up to the 2014 confrontation, the IDF, the General Security Services _(Israeli Counterintelligence and Internal Security)_, in conjunction with the Palestinian Authority (PA) neutralized more than 5 dozen terrorist events. The stated goals and intention _(Saleh al-Arouri, a HAMAS Leader based in Turkey)_: "Our goal was to ignite an intifada in the West Bank and Jerusalem, as well as within the 1948 borders..."​There was very little question that the HoAP wanted to initiate a confrontation; but in order to make it appear that the Arab Palestinians were the victims of aggression, the HoAP had to induce the Israelis to launch first.  In that way, under the UN Definition, the FIRST use of armed force by Israel  constitute _*prima facie*_ evidence of an act of aggression.  This is not a new tactic, but a tried and true tactic used by hostile Arab nations attempting to garner political support and sympathy.  It was used very effectively in the 1967 Six-Day War by the Egyptians by forcing the UNEF-I (First UN Emergency Force) and then running up nearly 800,000 troops and nearly 900 Russian Tanks up to the Israeli-Egyptian Armistice Line, triggering a preemptive attackby the Israelis.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are not paying attention.  The discussion was actually based on the morality and ethics of the action.  Not the effectiveness of the force itself.  The ratio of Israelis to Arab Palestinians that are killed is a matter of competence and effectiveness of the fighting force.  It has nothing to do with the question of legality.
> 
> In the case of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge, the HoAP in Gaza intentionally, with purpose and intent --- with the grave measure of depraved indifference to human life, set-out with the intention of luring the IDF into the dilemma of responding to engagements.  The HoAP set the conditions to place the maximum number of civilian casualties by:
> 
> •  The HoAP, to the extent feasible, intentionally placed military objectives in close proximity to (or actually in) densely populated areas.
> •  The HoAP, intentionally ignored the requirement to relocate civilians and protected facilities under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
> By doing so, the IDF can either not responde, giving the HoAP a location immune from counterattack; or --- the IDF can attack, nuetralizing the HoAP military advantage, under the condition of causing an exagerrated number of civilian casualties.  In either choice, the advantage goes to the HoAP in the tactical effort or the propaganda effort.
> 
> *(AGAIN)*
> 
> This has absolutley nothing to do with the ratios of Israeli to Arab Palestinian dead.  In fact, you use of that response is example of one side of the dilemma.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?


----------



## RoccoR

_P F Tinmore, et al,_

This is just another evasive response.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?


*(COMMENT)*

Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.

We are Looking at:


•  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
•  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
MostRespectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you point out the part of this "written charter" where it "outlines their intention to kill every last Jew"?  I must have missed it with all the nutty Islamist hyperbole it contains if it is the Hamas Covenant you are referring to.
> 
> While invading/settling lands the native people will usually exhibit resistance by said native people.  The invaders/settlers have the right to defend themselves from the attacks of the native people, but the native people have the right to attempt resist the invasion/settlement/colonization their ancestors had lived on for generations.  Of course, it would have been preferable had the Zionists not invaded Palestine which is the cause of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> _The Zionists_™ invaded a "country of Pal'istan"? Never found any indication of that.
> 
> Have you banged your head too hard on your prayer mat again?
Click to expand...


You have a reading comprehension problem.  Where was the word "country" in the post you responded to.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> MostRespectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.

Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.

Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you point out the part of this "written charter" where it "outlines their intention to kill every last Jew"?  I must have missed it with all the nutty Islamist hyperbole it contains if it is the Hamas Covenant you are referring to.
> 
> While invading/settling lands the native people will usually exhibit resistance by said native people.  The invaders/settlers have the right to defend themselves from the attacks of the native people, but the native people have the right to attempt resist the invasion/settlement/colonization their ancestors had lived on for generations.  Of course, it would have been preferable had the Zionists not invaded Palestine which is the cause of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> _The Zionists_™ invaded a "country of Pal'istan"? Never found any indication of that.
> 
> Have you banged your head too hard on your prayer mat again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a reading comprehension problem.  Where was the word "country" in the post you responded to.
Click to expand...

You have a syndrome identified as IJH (Irrational Jew Hatred). Your silly "Invasion" slogan is pointless and irrelevant, but then, pointless and irrelevant describes your various slogans and clichés.


----------



## montelatici

What would you call people going forth from one continent to another continent to displace the people of that continent to make room for said people from the other continent?  A picnic?  It is not hatred to criticize the taking of land by conquest, just a statement of fact.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
Click to expand...

Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> What would you call people going forth from one continent to another continent to displace the people of that continent to make room for said people from the other continent?  A picnic?  It is not hatred to criticize the taking of land by conquest, just a statement of fact.


I see you have retreated from your pointless and irrelevant "Invasion" slogan and have now tried a pointless and irrelevant "conquest" cliche. 

What are shame you are so profoundly ignorant of the history surrounding the area and so befuddled with coherent sentence structure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
Click to expand...

Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would you call people going forth from one continent to another continent to displace the people of that continent to make room for said people from the other continent?  A picnic?  It is not hatred to criticize the taking of land by conquest, just a statement of fact.
> 
> 
> 
> I see you have retreated from your pointless and irrelevant "Invasion" slogan and have now tried a pointless and irrelevant "conquest" cliche.
> 
> What are shame you are so profoundly ignorant of the history surrounding the area and so befuddled with coherent sentence structure.
Click to expand...


What does the "surrounding area" have to do with the area that was inhabited by Christians and Muslims and placed under what was called the Palestine Mandate?  You can't even write a proper sentence.  LOL


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would you call people going forth from one continent to another continent to displace the people of that continent to make room for said people from the other continent?  A picnic?  It is not hatred to criticize the taking of land by conquest, just a statement of fact.
> 
> 
> 
> I see you have retreated from your pointless and irrelevant "Invasion" slogan and have now tried a pointless and irrelevant "conquest" cliche.
> 
> What are shame you are so profoundly ignorant of the history surrounding the area and so befuddled with coherent sentence structure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does the "surrounding area" have to do with the area that was inhabited by Christians and Muslims and placed under what was called the Palestine Mandate?  You can't even write a proper sentence.  LOL
Click to expand...

What is the purpose of all that whining? Your obvious retreat from pointless and irrelevant slogans when your ignorance of history is pointed out only serves to point an illuminating light on your stuttering and mumbling as you try and assemble words into meaningful sentences.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
Click to expand...

Oh, well, now you're on to something... probably over-medicated. Ten times is the obvious standard by which we define country' hood or is it country'dom?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, well, now you're on to something... probably over-medicated. Ten times is the obvious standard by which we define country' hood or is it country'dom?
Click to expand...

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, well, now you're on to something... probably over-medicated. Ten times is the obvious standard by which we define country' hood or is it country'dom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...


Why don't you give us some data on this "country of Pal'istan" you claim exists and has existed in the past.

I have found at least ten mentions of the "Bible Belt" yet, I'm struggling to find when that geographic area became a "country".

Maybe it takes mentioning more than ten times for "country'hood" to be bestowed to a kuffar country?


----------



## RoccoR

_P F Tinmore, et al,_

No, not the same narrative at all.

But this still does not answer the allegations in *Posting #3178*.  This would refer to the single example:

• Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas. § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
• Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives. § Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
See Posting #3175



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.


*(COMMENT)*

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity or political independence to intimidate the citizens of Israel. 

Israel fires in the direction of a demonstrated armed threat to sovereignty and integrity of a State and its citizens in an effort through coercion to achieve that which Palestinians could not achieve.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

You are trying to imply that the use of the term "country" implies some sovereignty and/or independence. This is the difference in the expression in common usage and technical usage.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Your attempt to suggest that the usage of the term country gives some special status to the territory.  The "country" is defined by the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate in that the Government of Palestine is created to avoid the "statelessness" of the people.

The phrase "Government of Palestine" is the established by British Administration.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> No, not the same narrative at all.
> 
> But this still does not answer the allegations in *Posting #3178*.  This would refer to the single example:
> 
> • Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas. § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> • Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives. § Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> See Posting #3175
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity or political independence to intimidate the citizens of Israel.
> 
> Israel fires in the direction of a demonstrated armed threat to sovereignty and integrity of a State and its citizens in an effort through coercion to achieve that which Palestinians could not achieve.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are trying to imply that the use of the term "country" implies some sovereignty and/or independence. This is the difference in the expression in common usage and technical usage.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all this Israeli propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your attempt to suggest that the usage of the term country gives some special status to the territory.  The "country" is defined by the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate in that the Government of Palestine is created to avoid the "statelessness" of the people.
> 
> The phrase "Government of Palestine" is the established by British Administration.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

As the trustee of Palestine, Britain was to render administrative assistance and advise until the Palestinians could stand alone. After 24 years of Mandate/military occupation, Britain failed to establish a representative government. They could have been in and out of there in 10-15 years leaving an independent state, but they failed to follow the LoN Covenant.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on your definition of resistance. Attacking civilians is not resistance, targetting children is not resistance, breaching international laws is not resistance, committing war crimes is not resistance. Firing illegal weapons across borders is not resistance, breaching the UN charter is not resistance and breaching UN resolutions is not resistance.
> 
> 
> So how have they resisted the occupation that is not illegal or a breach of law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the rules of occupation. Israel violates virtually all of them.
> 
> Settlers are a necessary and integral part of the occupation. Are they "innocent" civilians?
Click to expand...







 Why dont you post them then, and then show actual instances of Israel breaching them. Or will this be binned as another failed LIE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come-on now ---- get real.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians are as good as they claim they are, then they should invest their funding and monetary streams into the resources they have and change the face of Arab Palestine, making it something that evry regional player envies --- rather than the parasite that is is.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do not know that the West Bank is under siege as well as Gaza. It is just not as severe.  Nobody can leave or enter the West Bank without Israeli approval including international academics who are barred from teaching in Palestinian universities. Nothing can be imported or exported without Israel approval. No aid or projects can enter Palestine without Israeli approval.
> 
> IOW, the Palestinian economy sucks because that is what Israel wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every restriction the Arab Palestinian faces today is a consequence of their past history of criminal behavior.  The legacy is what it is.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get serious. Everything the Palestinians have done is to resist the occupation.
> 
> That is not illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on your definition of resistance. Attacking civilians is not resistance, targetting children is not resistance, breaching international laws is not resistance, committing war crimes is not resistance. Firing illegal weapons across borders is not resistance, breaching the UN charter is not resistance and breaching UN resolutions is not resistance.
> 
> 
> So how have they resisted the occupation that is not illegal or a breach of law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the rules of occupation. Israel violates virtually all of them.
> 
> Settlers are a necessary and integral part of the occupation. Are they "innocent" civilians?
Click to expand...







 YES as they migrated back to lands they hold title to before the palestinians voted their deeds were illegal.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> No, not the same narrative at all.
> 
> But this still does not answer the allegations in *Posting #3178*.  This would refer to the single example:
> 
> • Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas. § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> • Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives. § Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> See Posting #3175
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity or political independence to intimidate the citizens of Israel.
> 
> Israel fires in the direction of a demonstrated armed threat to sovereignty and integrity of a State and its citizens in an effort through coercion to achieve that which Palestinians could not achieve.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
Click to expand...






 Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are trying to imply that the use of the term "country" implies some sovereignty and/or independence. This is the difference in the expression in common usage and technical usage.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is just another evasive response.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let me know when you are readyt to challenge the allegations.
> 
> We are Looking at:
> 
> •  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.  § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> •  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.  §  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​MostRespectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your attempt to suggest that the usage of the term country gives some special status to the territory.  The "country" is defined by the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate in that the Government of Palestine is created to avoid the "statelessness" of the people.
> 
> The phrase "Government of Palestine" is the established by British Administration.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the trustee of Palestine, Britain was to render administrative assistance and advise until the Palestinians could stand alone. After 24 years of Mandate/military occupation, Britain failed to establish a representative government. They could have been in and out of there in 10-15 years leaving an independent state, but they failed to follow the LoN Covenant.
Click to expand...







 It was not their job as mandatory to establish a government, just to help those willing to establish a government to do so under the terms of the Mandate. Tell me again who refused to have any part in that function ? The LoN Covenant said that the Jewish NATIONal home was a priority in palestine, and to stop any violence they gave 72% of palestine to the arab muslims and called it trans Jordan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> No, not the same narrative at all.
> 
> But this still does not answer the allegations in *Posting #3178*.  This would refer to the single example:
> 
> • Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas. § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> • Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives. § Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> See Posting #3175
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity or political independence to intimidate the citizens of Israel.
> 
> Israel fires in the direction of a demonstrated armed threat to sovereignty and integrity of a State and its citizens in an effort through coercion to achieve that which Palestinians could not achieve.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
Click to expand...

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are trying to imply that the use of the term "country" implies some sovereignty and/or independence. This is the difference in the expression in common usage and technical usage.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> 
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> 
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your attempt to suggest that the usage of the term country gives some special status to the territory.  The "country" is defined by the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate in that the Government of Palestine is created to avoid the "statelessness" of the people.
> 
> The phrase "Government of Palestine" is the established by British Administration.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the trustee of Palestine, Britain was to render administrative assistance and advise until the Palestinians could stand alone. After 24 years of Mandate/military occupation, Britain failed to establish a representative government. They could have been in and out of there in 10-15 years leaving an independent state, but they failed to follow the LoN Covenant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was not their job as mandatory to establish a government, just to help those willing to establish a government to do so under the terms of the Mandate. Tell me again who refused to have any part in that function ? The LoN Covenant said that the Jewish NATIONal home was a priority in palestine, and to stop any violence they gave 72% of palestine to the arab muslims and called it trans Jordan
Click to expand...

The Palestinians consistently lobbied Britain for a democratic government. Britain always refused.


----------



## RoccoR

_P F Tinmore, et al,_

I have always answered that question.  I don't duck the question!  You just don't like the answer.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> 
> 
> 
> ​You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish State of Israel maintains and exercises sovereignty over everything in "White" (or Beige like) on this Map.




However, this map is not all inclusive of Israeli Sovereignty.  There are things like the Exclusive Economic Zone that further extend Israeli Sovereignty.

 Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.



P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid. 

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

•  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
•  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
•  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

In this Rocco is correct, while the legal borders of Israel are those of the 1949 Armistice, de facto the borders are those that Israel says they are.  Much like Russia's borders are those Russia says they are, though legally the world does not recognize Crimea and the parts of Georgia acquired by force on the part of Russia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
Click to expand...

"Their territory", which it was not. How about "their territory" in the mythical "country of Pal'istan" which never existed. 

What a hoot.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.



Oh give me a break.  You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile?  Pah-leeze.  

The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas.  Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens. 

Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.  

Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL.  And it can not be tolerated.  Just acknowledge that and move on.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

It was never their territory.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign. 

*(QUESTION)*

What do you consider Palestinian Territory?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

montelatici said:


> What would you call people going forth from one continent to another continent to displace the people of that continent to make room for said people from the other continent?  A picnic?  It is not hatred to criticize the taking of land by conquest, just a statement of fact.


*OLD SCHOOL:  Manifest Destiny  ///   NEW AGE:  Many Fuzzy Desktops*

Those of us who are proud of our American history have no problem with conquest.  The land belongs to whoever can get the most out of it, not to backward criminal fugitives who got there ahead of superior groups, hogged the land, and let it go to waste.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile?  Pah-leeze.
> 
> The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas.  Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.
> 
> Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.
> 
> Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL.  And it can not be tolerated.  Just acknowledge that and move on.
Click to expand...

You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine...​
Uhhh,


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It was never their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you consider Palestinian Territory?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> I have always answered that question.  I don't duck the question!  You just don't like the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> 
> 
> 
> ​You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel maintains and exercises sovereignty over everything in "White" (or Beige like) on this Map.
> View attachment 97438​
> However, this map is not all inclusive of Israeli Sovereignty.  There are things like the Exclusive Economic Zone that further extend Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

If there is no longer a green line around Gaza and the West Bank, whose territory is it?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It was never their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you consider Palestinian Territory?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.
Click to expand...

All of what territory?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile?  Pah-leeze.
> 
> The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas.  Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.
> 
> Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.
> 
> Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL.  And it can not be tolerated.  Just acknowledge that and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine...​
> Uhhh,
Click to expand...


Ha!  Oops.  All of Israel is Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Where is "their territory?"
Who said it was their territory?
Where do the Arab Palestinian now exercise sovereignty?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was never their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you consider Palestinian Territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The The Arab Summit in 1974 recognized the "Palestine Liberation Organization" as the “sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;”  (actually it says more than that but we'll leave that for another time).  And even the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) contests that voice.

*Hamas: PLO does not represent Palestinian people*
Dr. Faiz Abu Shamala, journalist at official Hamas newspaper, 'Falastin,' challenges PLO’s ability to represent PA Arabs.
Contact Editor  Dalit Halevy , 26/09/16 07:31​
I cannot simply send a telegram to the UN Secretary-General, and say my block is the sovereign territory of the State of Rosano.  I can meet all the requirements to be a sovereign state. But I don't exercise any sovereign authority exclusive to me.   I don't think the Police will recognize my border control point and show me a Passport and buy a visa; at least until they stop laughing.

I believe the Arab Palestinians have a similar problem with that, if not more.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> No, not the same narrative at all.
> 
> But this still does not answer the allegations in *Posting #3178*.  This would refer to the single example:
> 
> • Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas. § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
> • Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives. § Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I​
> See Posting #3175
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
> Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
> Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity or political independence to intimidate the citizens of Israel.
> 
> Israel fires in the direction of a demonstrated armed threat to sovereignty and integrity of a State and its citizens in an effort through coercion to achieve that which Palestinians could not achieve.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
Click to expand...








Try reading the mandate of palestine that sets in stone the borders of the proposed Jewish national home. No mention of part of it being an arab muslim national home.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are trying to imply that the use of the term "country" implies some sovereignty and/or independence. This is the difference in the expression in common usage and technical usage.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc_., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your attempt to suggest that the usage of the term country gives some special status to the territory.  The "country" is defined by the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate in that the Government of Palestine is created to avoid the "statelessness" of the people.
> 
> The phrase "Government of Palestine" is the established by British Administration.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As the trustee of Palestine, Britain was to render administrative assistance and advise until the Palestinians could stand alone. After 24 years of Mandate/military occupation, Britain failed to establish a representative government. They could have been in and out of there in 10-15 years leaving an independent state, but they failed to follow the LoN Covenant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was not their job as mandatory to establish a government, just to help those willing to establish a government to do so under the terms of the Mandate. Tell me again who refused to have any part in that function ? The LoN Covenant said that the Jewish NATIONal home was a priority in palestine, and to stop any violence they gave 72% of palestine to the arab muslims and called it trans Jordan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians consistently lobbied Britain for a democratic government. Britain always refused.
Click to expand...







 The palestinians refusedc to take part in any negotiations so were refused their demands. As the LoN stated, and you constantly post, they were not about to make ALL of palestine a wholly arab muslim state. So they already had 78% in trans jordan and they were not going to get the last 28%. Britain was just the mandatory and as such had no say in the matter, the LoN was the authority they should have went to, but knowing that the LoN would demand they join in the discusions as part of the Mandate they refused.

3 reasons why the arab muslims failed in their endeavours to steal land that was never theirs, and why they are constantlt at war with each other and the world.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
Click to expand...









 And here is the 64 million dollar question


 WHAT IS THAT TERRITORY AND WHO GRANTED IT TO THEM POST 1922 ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile?  Pah-leeze.
> 
> The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas.  Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.
> 
> Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.
> 
> Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL.  And it can not be tolerated.  Just acknowledge that and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine...​
> Uhhh,
Click to expand...








 Yes a simple concept that the area on the map designate palestine is palestine and it takes in trans Jordan, Israel, west bank, gaza, parts of Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. It is not delineated as the extent can change from one day to the next.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It was never their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer.  Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.
> 
> "This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states."  (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010)  The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades.  Its control is undisputed by any challengers.
> 
> If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:
> 
> •  Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
> •  Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined."  There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> • Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​
> The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you consider Palestinian Territory?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.
Click to expand...








 Then they have to declare it, then show it and finally prove it. So when will they take these steps towards being a sovereign, as violence goes against each of these steps.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> I have always answered that question.  I don't duck the question!  You just don't like the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​
> 
> 
> 
> ​You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel maintains and exercises sovereignty over everything in "White" (or Beige like) on this Map.
> View attachment 97438​
> However, this map is not all inclusive of Israeli Sovereignty.  There are things like the Exclusive Economic Zone that further extend Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there is no longer a green line around Gaza and the West Bank, whose territory is it?
Click to expand...






 Who ever holds it under international law, and agreed borders


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Showcase: Palestinian politics and culture through embroidery *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bir Zeit opens the Palestinian Heritage Path *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories *

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian culture. 

Brought to you by Shirley Temper. Star of Pallywood Productions, Inc.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal'istanian culture.
> 
> Brought to you by Shirley Temper. Star of Pallywood Productions, Inc.


Indeed, she is always harassing Israeli goontards.


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian culture of Death


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Showcase: Palestinian politics and culture through embroidery *
> 
> **








 So all you have is islamonazi talking points from an islamonazi source.   Have you nothing at all that comes from a western source?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal'istanian culture of Death


Last updated July 25, 2014

TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 131

TOTALS FOR 2000:
*Israelis: 0 *

TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
 Palestinians: 1656

TOTALS FOR 2000:
*Palestinians: 91 

Remember These Children 2000 Memorial*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories *
> 
> **










 A one sided islamonazi monologue that tells it from just one side, and because it is islamonazi propaganda at its best you run with it.. Anything to slime Israel and the Jews while trying to hide your denial of their rights.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian culture.
> 
> Brought to you by Shirley Temper. Star of Pallywood Productions, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, she is always harassing Israeli goontards.
Click to expand...









 And your words show that you are hell bent on removing all rights from all Jews so that you can then call for their mass murder in the name of islam and allah


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one sided islamonazi monologue that tells it from just one side, and because it is islamonazi propaganda at its best you run with it.. Anything to slime Israel and the Jews while trying to hide your denial of their rights.
Click to expand...

OK, what is Israel's side of this story?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian culture of Death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last updated July 25, 2014
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Israelis: 0 *
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Palestinians: 91
> 
> Remember These Children 2000 Memorial*
Click to expand...





* YES REMEMBER THAT IT WAS THEIR ELECTED LEADERS THAT FORCED THEM TO BE HUMAN SHIELDS AND GET KILLED FOR THE GLORY OF ISLAM. REMEMBER THAT IT IS HAMAS THAT THE PEOPLE ELECTED WHO IS CONSTANTLY IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, UN CHARTER, UN RESOLUTIONS AND THE PROMISES THEY MADE IN 1988. REMEMBER THAT ISRAEL IS DEFENDING AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS, VIOLENCE AND WAR CRIMES. IT IS NOT THE ARAB MUSLIMS UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK AS THEY ARE THE PROVEN AGGRESSORS*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian culture of Death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last updated July 25, 2014
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Israelis: 0 *
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Palestinians: 91
> 
> Remember These Children 2000 Memorial*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * YES REMEMBER THAT IT WAS THEIR ELECTED LEADERS THAT FORCED THEM TO BE HUMAN SHIELDS AND GET KILLED FOR THE GLORY OF ISLAM. REMEMBER THAT IT IS HAMAS THAT THE PEOPLE ELECTED WHO IS CONSTANTLY IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, UN CHARTER, UN RESOLUTIONS AND THE PROMISES THEY MADE IN 1988. REMEMBER THAT ISRAEL IS DEFENDING AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS, VIOLENCE AND WAR CRIMES. IT IS NOT THE ARAB MUSLIMS UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK AS THEY ARE THE PROVEN AGGRESSORS*
Click to expand...

Pfffft, Load of Israeli crap.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian culture of Death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last updated July 25, 2014
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Israelis: 0 *
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Palestinians: 91
> 
> Remember These Children 2000 Memorial*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * YES REMEMBER THAT IT WAS THEIR ELECTED LEADERS THAT FORCED THEM TO BE HUMAN SHIELDS AND GET KILLED FOR THE GLORY OF ISLAM. REMEMBER THAT IT IS HAMAS THAT THE PEOPLE ELECTED WHO IS CONSTANTLY IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, UN CHARTER, UN RESOLUTIONS AND THE PROMISES THEY MADE IN 1988. REMEMBER THAT ISRAEL IS DEFENDING AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS, VIOLENCE AND WAR CRIMES. IT IS NOT THE ARAB MUSLIMS UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK AS THEY ARE THE PROVEN AGGRESSORS*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, Load of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one sided islamonazi monologue that tells it from just one side, and because it is islamonazi propaganda at its best you run with it.. Anything to slime Israel and the Jews while trying to hide your denial of their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, what is Israel's side of this story?
Click to expand...








 Defending against arab muslim terrorist attacks, violence and war crimes. Proven by those who look at the full picture. 

And there is no palestinian culture for the arab muslims as they are from all over the M.E. and follow the culture of their own lands. Only the original Jewish palestinians have any real palestinian culture, and you want to deny that along with their human, civil and legal rights


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian culture of Death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last updated July 25, 2014
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Israelis: 0 *
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> TOTALS FOR 2000:
> *Palestinians: 91
> 
> Remember These Children 2000 Memorial*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * YES REMEMBER THAT IT WAS THEIR ELECTED LEADERS THAT FORCED THEM TO BE HUMAN SHIELDS AND GET KILLED FOR THE GLORY OF ISLAM. REMEMBER THAT IT IS HAMAS THAT THE PEOPLE ELECTED WHO IS CONSTANTLY IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, UN CHARTER, UN RESOLUTIONS AND THE PROMISES THEY MADE IN 1988. REMEMBER THAT ISRAEL IS DEFENDING AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS, VIOLENCE AND WAR CRIMES. IT IS NOT THE ARAB MUSLIMS UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK AS THEY ARE THE PROVEN AGGRESSORS*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, Load of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...






 NO FACTS PROVEN THOUSANDS OF TIMES AND DENIED BY YOU CONSTANTLY BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT THE JEWS TO HAVE ANY RIGHTS WHAT SO EVER


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian Death Cult Heritage


----------



## member

montelatici said:


> 400 watt receivers?  Now that's novel. LOL
> 
> By the way, you should call them transceivers.  You mean the UHF band, not range.  You designed nothing, low noise receivers in nearly any band are cheap and available off-the-shelf.
> 
> A full wavelength VLF antenna would be about 60 miles long, so it better be electrically short.  LOL


I wonder what kind of _*"transceivers"*_ Arafat had when he listened to his radio..............




​

*"RAMALLAH, West Bank –  Palestinians* 

 *will soon get a chance to glimpse the small bedroom where their longtime leader Yasser Arafat spent his final years."*






_*The 54-square-foot room is the centerpiece of the new Arafat Museum...*_


*........... which opens to the public* 

 

 

 


.....*on Thursday to coincide with the 12th anniversary of Arafat's death*. 

​




*"The room has only a single bed and small closet that barely *

* holds four suits,"*



_*JOHN PHILLIPS OF LONDON* _













 


_*a few checkered headscarves *_


 


_*and shirts. There is also a nightstand and lamp, a prayer carpet and a painting by his then-young daughter Zahwa.*_​

_*"Arafat spent most of the last three years of his life in this bedroom*_ 

 _*on the ground floor of his Ramallah headquarters,*_ 

 *known as the Muqata."*



*"Israel confined him* 

 *to the building on Dec. 8, 2001, accusing him of masterminding a violent uprising at the time. He remained holed up there until Oct. 29, 2004...*

 *...when Israel allowed* *him* *to travel to France for* 

 *emergency medical care. He died from a mysterious illness at the age of 75 two weeks later.*




* "The bedroom, left largely untouched since Arafat's death, is housed in a vacant wing of the Muqata that is connected to the new $7 million, 28,000 square foot museum by a bridge."*


_"Arafat's story is the story of the Palestinian people in their struggle for freedom and independence," said Nasser Kidwa, Arafat's nephew and head of the Arafat Foundation. The museum tracks Arafat's life, saying he was born on Aug. 4, 1929, in the Old City of Jerusalem, though other accounts have said he was born in either Gaza or Cairo."_



*"It displays many of his famous belongings:

the old radio he used when he was working underground"*

 _*in the West Bank after Israel captured the territory in 1967, his last pair of eyeglasses, pens, handwritten papers and a gun he kept on his office desk.*_


*"It also traces the history of the Palestinians, including the "naqba," or catastrophe, the term they use to describe the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who either fled or were forced from their homes in the war surrounding Israel's creation in 1948; the 1993 Oslo peace accord with Israel; the Israeli siege on his headquarters; his illness and death and burial in Ramallah.

Revered at home as the father of the Palestinian national struggle and seen in parts of the world as a symbol of liberation, he was reviled by many in Israel and the West as promoting violence. The museum portrays some periods, such as plane hijackings in the 1970s and the second Palestinian uprising, as part of the national struggle and avoids mention of some attacks carried out by the Palestine Liberation Organization under his watch, such as a deadly attack on Israeli Olympic athletes in Munich, in the years before the Oslo accord.

The museum displays photos of Arafat in the main stations of his life, including the Nobel Peace Prize Medal he shared in 1994 with Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres.
*
*The medal was among many of Arafat's belongings that were looted when the rival Hamas militant group seized control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Hamas recently returned *

* the medal at the request of the museum.*
*
The museum tour ends with images of Israeli bulldozers razing buildings at his headquarters and reaching the walls of his bedroom. In his office, Arafat kept posters of two foreign activists killed in clashes with the Israeli military, American Rachel Corrie and Tom Hurndall of the U.K. The guards' room includes two beds and their Kalashnikov rifles and a rocket-propelled grenade launcher."*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hatem Bazian,* The man Islamaphobes love to hate

****


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Hatem Bazian,* The man Islamaphobes love to hate
> 
> ****








 Can you produce a link to any verified case of islamophobia, you do know what the word means I take it
 AN IRRATIONAL FEAR OF ANYTHING ISLAMIC THAT WILL SEND THE SUFFERER INTO A STATE OF HEIGHTENED HEART RATE, BREATHING RATE AND ABJECT FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES. THEY WILL BE FROZEN IN PLACE, SWEATING PROFUSELY AND EVEN SCREAMING INCOHERENTLY.


 Secondly why does he call for a violent uprising of muslims in the US to take over and turn it into an islamonazi cess pit state


----------



## Hollie

Just another so-called Pal'istanian calling for violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Maha*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Maha*










 Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is


 It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".

OR

In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas


So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Maha*



Great! Another video comparing da Jooos to flies and mosquitoes... no antisemitism here at all

So I guess people are merely "shaking off" flies when approaching pregnant women and stubbing them in the belly...

Wonder how people around the world misunderstand the peace reaching process of 'iintifada' (uprising, rebellion in arabic)???


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
Click to expand...

It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
Indeed, that is the propaganda version.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
> Indeed, that is the propaganda version.
Click to expand...


She actually says "rebellion" herself at 3:10, so it's according to YOUR OWN propaganda,


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
> Indeed, that is the propaganda version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She actually says "rebellion" herself at 3:10, so it's according to YOUR OWN propaganda,
Click to expand...

Rebel against what?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
> Indeed, that is the propaganda version.
Click to expand...






 NO IT IS THE ARABIC TRANSLATION BY MUSLIMS UNTIL IT NO LONGER SUITS THEM. THE SAME WITH JIHAD THAT MEANS WAR, VIOLENCE. IT IS ALL DOWN TO CONTEXT AND THE WAY IT IS USED WITH OTHER WORDS.


THE ONLY PROPAGANDA IS YOURS WHEN YOU ATTEMPT TO SLIME THE JEWS AND INCITE VIOLENCE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
> Indeed, that is the propaganda version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She actually says "rebellion" herself at 3:10, so it's according to YOUR OWN propaganda,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rebel against what?
Click to expand...







 The Jews rights under international laws to live on the land granted to them in 1923


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
> Indeed, that is the propaganda version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She actually says "rebellion" herself at 3:10, so it's according to YOUR OWN propaganda,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rebel against what?
Click to expand...


The relevant first world.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Maha*



Islamic terrorist infantile Intifada - an explanation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist infantile Intifada - an explanation.
Click to expand...

Oh goody, Israeli war crimes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist infantile Intifada - an explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh goody, Israeli war crimes.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorist obedience training.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist infantile Intifada - an explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh goody, Israeli war crimes.
Click to expand...






 Have they been charged with them, or did the ICC/ICJ say they had no case to answer. Unlike the palestinians that were threatened with mass arrests and charges being brought


 You bleating Israeli war crimes does not make them true, responding to hamas terrorist attacks are not war crimes


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more pallywood lies to spread islamonazi propaganda as the real definition when translated is
> 
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".
> 
> OR
> 
> In the Palestinian context, with which it is particularly associated, the word refers to attempts to "shake off" the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the First and Second Intifadas
> 
> 
> So just another name for islamonazi terrorism and violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is often rendered into English as "uprising", "resistance", or "rebellion".​
> Indeed, that is the propaganda version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She actually says "rebellion" herself at 3:10, so it's according to YOUR OWN propaganda,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rebel against what?
Click to expand...


Don't you watch the propaganda you regurgitate?

She said clearly with a smile.... the intifada is against "flies and mosquitoes", you know the Jewish insects, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Funny, none of Israel's tools were smiling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Funny, none of Israel's tools were smiling.


Funny, not much interest in flailing Pom Poms for an Islamic Death Cult.


----------



## Hollie

I always get a chuckle from Arab-Moslem terrorists taking center stage in YouTube videos wherein they rail against the _Great Satan™_, _The Zionists_ ™ and their whining about their miserable lot in life.

How soon will it be before these same Arab-Moslem terrorists come begging like underpaid prostitutes for the kuffar to shower them with welfare dollars.
*



Fatah official: 
Trump's "true face" - "Zionist and racist"

Fatah official: Trump’s “true face” – “Zionist and racist” - PMW Bulletins
*


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. It seems that the arabs-moslems occupying the disputed territories are doing a lot of chest-heaving and blustering. Their empty threats are a bit of a joke. 

What will they do, threaten to refuse our kuffar welfare dollars? Yeah, that'll teach us. 



Palestinian UN envoy threatens US if Trump moves embassy to Jerusalem
Palestinian UN envoy threatens US if Trump moves embassy to Jerusalem

BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) -- In response to a pledge by US President-elect Donald Trump to move the American embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, Palestinian ambassador to the United Nations Riyad Mansour threatened to “[unleash] all of the weapons that we have in the UN” against the United States, Israeli media reported on Sunday.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Funny, none of Israel's tools were smiling.









Dont see any tools, is this the new anti semitic word from the hate sites that is derogatory towards Jews ?





 By the way did you tell that woman that Israel has not committed any war crimes, but hamas does every time it fires into Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The "country of Pal'istan". Post Arab-Moslem terrorist.


----------



## Phoenall

And again all you have is a pallywood production spreading islamonazi propaganda


 The source                                            
*قبل الاحتلال *


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The "country of Pal'istan". Post Arab-Moslem terrorist.


Collaborators are complicit in murder.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "country of Pal'istan". Post Arab-Moslem terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators are complicit in murder.
Click to expand...








 And you have proof that they were collaborators have you, and not just dissidents that spoke out against the hamas government


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "country of Pal'istan". Post Arab-Moslem terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators are complicit in murder.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "country of Pal'istan". Post Arab-Moslem terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators are complicit in murder.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course you know that. I'm sure the islamic terrorist death squads have trial transcripts, records of depositions and a judgement from a tribal elder / bearded loon who turned the death squad loose. 

I guess in the areas of the planet ruled by a politico-religious ideology that has changed little since the 7th century, justice and social mores are still in accordance with those as they were on the burning sands of the Arabian Peninsula.


----------



## montelatici

French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France. 

Collaborators


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators


I can't say I'm opposed to Islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan rounding up alleged collaborators of the Islamic terrorist variety. Who needs a justice system when islamo-goons gun down Islamics?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators







 Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.

 No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.
> 
> No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members
Click to expand...

That is a history you will never know.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.
> 
> No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a history you will never know.
Click to expand...







 They have already admitted that this is the case when they bragged about how they are more evil than daesh


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.
> 
> No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a history you will never know.
Click to expand...


Speaking of history you will never know, you were quick to scurry off when challenged to provide any information regarding the justice system employed by the Hamas islamo-goon squads to determine the guilt of the alleged collaborators. I suppose Islamic terrorists waving the business end of an AK-47 in your face is all the evidence you require? 

What a wonderful thing: Islamic terrorists, sharia and automatic weapons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.
> 
> No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a history you will never know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of history you will never know, you were quick to scurry off when challenged to provide any information regarding the justice system employed by the Hamas islamo-goon squads to determine the guilt of the alleged collaborators. I suppose Islamic terrorists waving the business end of an AK-47 in your face is all the evidence you require?
> 
> What a wonderful thing: Islamic terrorists, sharia and automatic weapons.
Click to expand...

You don't make any sense. Collaboration is a problem. Killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.
> 
> No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a history you will never know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of history you will never know, you were quick to scurry off when challenged to provide any information regarding the justice system employed by the Hamas islamo-goon squads to determine the guilt of the alleged collaborators. I suppose Islamic terrorists waving the business end of an AK-47 in your face is all the evidence you require?
> 
> What a wonderful thing: Islamic terrorists, sharia and automatic weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't make any sense. Collaboration is a problem. Killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem.
Click to expand...

I think we can agree that Islamic terrorists are going to be meticulous in their review of facts and evidence and careful to assure the rule of law is followed before dragging hapless Islamists into the street and blowing their brains out. 

Gimme' that islamo-high five.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*



How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
Click to expand...

Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.

*Susan Abulhawa​*(Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.

She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.

She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.

Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]

In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”

Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Susan Abulhawa PennBDS Opening Keynote from PennBDS on Vimeo


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
Click to expand...

I have no desire to be a supporter of islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Yep. Another typical flaming, Jew hating BDS'er flailing her Pom Poms for islamic terrorists from the safety of the _Great Satan™_

Progressivism’s New Hate on Campus

Palestinian writer Susan Abulhawa has shown bitter animosity towards Israel on Facebook, describing Israeli policies as “reminiscent of Nazi mentality.” Overlooking Arab countries, among others, she has counterfactually condemned Israel as a “country with one of the worst human rights records in the world”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
Click to expand...

You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **



Just another slogan pusher, who calls the Israelis "white" and the palestinians "brown people"...nothing original.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.
Click to expand...

Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.
Click to expand...

It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.
Click to expand...

Ooooooo, terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> 
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
Click to expand...



Foreign Terrorist Organizations

HAMAS

Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)

Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)


Simple enough even for you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations
> 
> HAMAS
> 
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> 
> 
> Simple enough even for you?
Click to expand...

Those who illegally invaded Iraq killing a million civilians are calling the Palestinians terrorists.

That's rich.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. I will never be the person she is: an Islamic terrorist groupie.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations
> 
> HAMAS
> 
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> 
> 
> Simple enough even for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who illegally invaded Iraq killing a million civilians are calling the Palestinians terrorists.
> 
> That's rich.
Click to expand...

_Nice dodge_™

Pretty typical. You're unable to address the salient points so you put on your islamo-dancing shoes and spam the thread with something totally irrelevant.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the terrorist card the only one in your had.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations
> 
> HAMAS
> 
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> 
> 
> Simple enough even for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who illegally invaded Iraq killing a million civilians are calling the Palestinians terrorists.
> 
> That's rich.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nice dodge_™
> 
> Pretty typical. You're unable to address the salient points so you put on your islamo-dancing shoes and spam the thread with something totally irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Those clowns calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not in my "had". I'm reacting to the islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers in the silly YouTube videos you cut and paste. Your YouTube stars are predictable in their saliva-slinging tirades aimed at _The Zionists™. _The predictable whining is predictably drenched in the predictable "blame game" such that Arab-Moslem terrorists are indignant that they are held accountable for their actions.
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations
> 
> HAMAS
> 
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> 
> 
> Simple enough even for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who illegally invaded Iraq killing a million civilians are calling the Palestinians terrorists.
> 
> That's rich.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nice dodge_™
> 
> Pretty typical. You're unable to address the salient points so you put on your islamo-dancing shoes and spam the thread with something totally irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those clowns calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
Click to expand...


Actually, no. Calling the Pal'istanians terrorists is just assigning responsibility for their behavior. 

Flail your Pom Poms, sweetie.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooo, terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations
> 
> HAMAS
> 
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> 
> 
> Simple enough even for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who illegally invaded Iraq killing a million civilians are calling the Palestinians terrorists.
> 
> That's rich.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nice dodge_™
> 
> Pretty typical. You're unable to address the salient points so you put on your islamo-dancing shoes and spam the thread with something totally irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those clowns calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, no. Calling the Pal'istanians terrorists is just assigning responsibility for their behavior.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms, sweetie.
Click to expand...

Cheap, third grade, political, name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations
> 
> HAMAS
> 
> Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
> 
> 
> Simple enough even for you?
> 
> 
> 
> Those who illegally invaded Iraq killing a million civilians are calling the Palestinians terrorists.
> 
> That's rich.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Nice dodge_™
> 
> Pretty typical. You're unable to address the salient points so you put on your islamo-dancing shoes and spam the thread with something totally irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those clowns calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, no. Calling the Pal'istanians terrorists is just assigning responsibility for their behavior.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms, sweetie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cheap, third grade, political, name calling.
Click to expand...

That's another _Nice dodge_™ you have used repeatedly. Your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended because the actions of the Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians fit precisely that definition.


----------



## P F Tinmore

SJP at UCLA


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> SJP at UCLA



In many parts of the Islamist world, dancing and not being bagged in their Fem Tents could get them killed to save the family honor.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hossfly

Hollie said:


>


Speaking of UCLA, there are probably many students who feel harassed by this BDS movement.

UCLA student president leaves due to pro-BDS harassment

When you get down to it, many of the BDSers are just a bunch of common thugs.

BDS activists vandalize restaurant in Portugal?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> Speaking of UCLA, there are probably many students who feel harassed by this BDS movement.
> 
> UCLA student president leaves due to pro-BDS harassment


The UCLA Discrimination Prevention Office concluded that Chatterjee violated the university’s policy of viewpoint neutrality.​
He violated the rules.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of UCLA, there are probably many students who feel harassed by this BDS movement.
> 
> UCLA student president leaves due to pro-BDS harassment
> 
> 
> 
> The UCLA Discrimination Prevention Office concluded that Chatterjee violated the university’s policy of viewpoint neutrality.​
> He violated the rules.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorism has rules?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99164
> 
> 
> French traitors executed by firing squad, in the public square of Grenoble, France.
> 
> Collaborators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried in a court of law and found guilty of the crime.
> 
> No comparison with hamas murdering fatah members
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a history you will never know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of history you will never know, you were quick to scurry off when challenged to provide any information regarding the justice system employed by the Hamas islamo-goon squads to determine the guilt of the alleged collaborators. I suppose Islamic terrorists waving the business end of an AK-47 in your face is all the evidence you require?
> 
> What a wonderful thing: Islamic terrorists, sharia and automatic weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't make any sense. Collaboration is a problem. Killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem.
Click to expand...







 You are the one not making any sense as the facts were spelt out and you failed to reply.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> **









 JUST THE SAME OLD SAME OLD ISLAMONAZI TALKING POINTS


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much more UNRWA welfare fraud money would it take to make her go away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft! You will never be the person that she is.
> 
> *Susan Abulhawa*
> (Arabic: سوزان أبو الهوى‎‎, born June 3, 1970) is a Palestinian American writer and human rights activist. She is the author of a bestselling novel, _Mornings in Jenin_ (2010) and the founder of a non-governmental organization, Playgrounds for Palestine.[1] She lives in Yardley, Pennsylvania.[2] Her second novel, _The Blue Between Sky And Water_, was sold in 19 languages before its release.
> 
> She majored in Biology in college and attended USC School of Medicine as a graduate student in the Department of Biomedical Science, where she completed a master's degree in Neuroscience.
> 
> She later turned to journalism and fiction. She has contributed to several anthologies and has been published in major and minor US and international newspapers and other periodicals. _Mornings in Jenin_ (originally published in 2006 as _The Scar of David_) was her debut novel.[4][5] It is an international bestseller, published in at least 26 languages. In 2013, Abulhawa published a collection of poetry entitled "My Voice Sought The Wind" and it has been announced that she completed and sold her second novel manuscript.
> 
> Abulhawa is the founder of _Playgrounds for Palestine,_ [6] an NGO that advocates for Palestinian children by building playgrounds in Palestine and UN refugee camps in Lebanon. The first playground was erected in early 2002.[7]
> 
> In addition to her fiction writing and activism, Abulhawa continues to do “medical writing for journals and drug companies.”
> 
> Susan Abulhawa - Wikipedia​
Click to expand...








 She cant be palestinian and American at the same time, it is against her religion. So what is she American or palestinian ?



 Dont those swing sets look like qassam launchers to you ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of UCLA, there are probably many students who feel harassed by this BDS movement.
> 
> UCLA student president leaves due to pro-BDS harassment
> 
> 
> 
> The UCLA Discrimination Prevention Office concluded that Chatterjee violated the university’s policy of viewpoint neutrality.​
> He violated the rules.
Click to expand...







 And the islamonazi speakers dont ?


----------



## Mindful

It is no secret that Arab countries have long mistreated their Palestinian brothers and sisters, governing them with inhumane laws and imposing severe restrictions on their public freedoms and basic rights. Building a wall around a Palestinian community to prevent terrorists from entering or leaving, however, has raised the bar on such infringements.

This is precisely what is happening in Lebanon these days. The construction of a security wall around Ain al-Hilweh, the largest Palestinian refugee camp (with a population of nearly 120,000), has drawn sharp criticism from Palestinians and revived memories of the abuse they regularly receive at the hands of their Arab brethren.


The Gatestone Institute.


----------



## RoccoR

Mindful, et al,

Well I can't really disagree; but I look at this another way.



Mindful said:


> It is no secret that Arab countries have long mistreated their Palestinian brothers and sisters, governing them with inhumane laws and imposing severe restrictions on their public freedoms and basic rights. Building a wall around a Palestinian community to prevent terrorists from entering or leaving, however, has raised the bar on such infringements.
> 
> This is precisely what is happening in Lebanon these days. The construction of a security wall around Ain al-Hilweh, the largest Palestinian refugee camp (with a population of nearly 120,000), has drawn sharp criticism from Palestinians and revived memories of the abuse they regularly receive at the hands of their Arab brethren.
> 
> The Gatestone Institute.


*(COMMENT)*

The security quarantine about the Arab Palestinians is an Adult and Mature form of the application applied when children misbehave.  "Send them to their room and close the door:  with no TV, no Video Games and no Supper."  

This is very similar to the response to the misbehaviors of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

RoccoR said:


> Mindful, et al,
> 
> Well I can't really disagree; but I look at this another way.
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is no secret that Arab countries have long mistreated their Palestinian brothers and sisters, governing them with inhumane laws and imposing severe restrictions on their public freedoms and basic rights. Building a wall around a Palestinian community to prevent terrorists from entering or leaving, however, has raised the bar on such infringements.
> 
> This is precisely what is happening in Lebanon these days. The construction of a security wall around Ain al-Hilweh, the largest Palestinian refugee camp (with a population of nearly 120,000), has drawn sharp criticism from Palestinians and revived memories of the abuse they regularly receive at the hands of their Arab brethren.
> 
> The Gatestone Institute.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The security quarantine about the Arab Palestinians is an Adult and Mature form of the application applied when children misbehave.  "Send them to their room and close the door:  with no TV, no Video Games and no Supper."
> 
> This is very similar to the response to the misbehaviors of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...










 In other words act like spoilt brats and we will treat you like spoilt brats, even if team palestine accuses us of collective punishment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Where are you from? *

**


----------



## RoccoR

Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.

Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law. 

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law. ​
The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.

Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization. 



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.

Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.

Most Respectfully,
R

​


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


Who are the Zionist Jews? They are the culture that utilized violent Zionism, Zealotry, Hostile Insurgency Operations, radicalized Jewish Behaviors and Asymmetric Violence to achieve their goals rather than seeking a peaceful solution. Who do you think the Palestinians learned from?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
Click to expand...

You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
Click to expand...

Several designated islamic terrorist franchises occupying the disputed territories you define as "peaceful people".

I suppose Hamas, ie._ Isis lite _are those "Peaceful Inner Strugglers" we read about.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ​You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.



Once again demonstrating that the mere presence of Jews is enough to turn "peaceful people" into jihadis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again demonstrating that the mere presence of Jews is enough to turn "peaceful people" into jihadis.
Click to expand...

They don't have a problem with Jews.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again demonstrating that the mere presence of Jews is enough to turn "peaceful people" into jihadis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't have a problem with Jews.
Click to expand...

Read the Hamas Charter.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **








Just your usual palestinian talking points and islamonazi propaganda lies


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: Where are you from? *
> 
> **








 Did you watch your own link, as not one is more than 4th generation, and the majority are from arab league nations that invaded Israel from 1947


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again demonstrating that the mere presence of Jews is enough to turn "peaceful people" into jihadis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't have a problem with Jews.
Click to expand...








 As long as they are dead, or living on the sun


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are the Zionist Jews? They are the culture that utilized violent Zionism, Zealotry, Hostile Insurgency Operations, radicalized Jewish Behaviors and Asymmetric Violence to achieve their goals rather than seeking a peaceful solution. Who do you think the Palestinians learned from?
Click to expand...






So in effect they only exist in your warped fantasy world that you have built inside your head so you can justify to yourself your hatred of the Jews. 
There is no violent Zionism like violent Catholicism, look at the Catholic nations that are embroiled in violent behaviour
There are very few radicalised Jews and they are mostly the Jews that you claim are the real Jews because they are anti Israel ( yet still live there claiming welfare because they are too lazy to work)
The Jews have tried time and time again to reach a peaceful conclusion only to be told that the only solution is the ethnic cleansing of all the Jews and the destruction of Israel. 
From the koran of course that is just above the Catholic bible when it comes to being a manual for violent actions


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
Click to expand...






So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
Click to expand...

So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?



The presence of Jewish people in their own homeland, whether by long residence or return, is not an aggression.


----------



## montelatici

The invasion of a place with the intent to either rule over, expel or otherwise eliminate the native people of that place is aggression. How can it not be?


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> The invasion of a place with the intent to either rule over, expel or otherwise eliminate the native people of that place is aggression. How can it not be?



Well, the Jewish people better get on with ending the Arab Muslim aggression then, don't you think?  Its been a few hundred years, after all.


----------



## montelatici

The Jews can try whatever they want.  The non-Jews will continue to resist until the Jews manage to kill every last one of them.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Jews can try whatever they want.  The non-Jews will continue to resist until the Jews manage to kill every last one of them.


I'm afraid your understanding of the situation with the Arab-Moslem terrorists is little more than juvenile and simplistic. The Islamist gee-had is entirely about a perceived entitlement to mayhem and murder in furtherance of the fascist Hamas charter. Of course, the Hamas charter is little more than a re-statement of Islamist ideology. 

The Islamic fascists have met a much more capable and determined foe in the state of Israel. If the Islamic fascists choose to die in pursuit of their fascism, that is their choice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Linda Sarsour*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


Drop in the bucket compared to Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
Click to expand...






 Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929


1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews 
3   1931 another civil war 
4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews




Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The invasion of a place with the intent to either rule over, expel or otherwise eliminate the native people of that place is aggression. How can it not be?









 Then tell it to the Roman Catholics and the arab muslims as they are not from palestine


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Jews can try whatever they want.  The non-Jews will continue to resist until the Jews manage to kill every last one of them.








 It is not resistance though is it, it is aggression in an attempt at stealing the land


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Linda Sarsour*
> 
> **







AND ! ! ! ! !


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to Israel.
Click to expand...








 How many children have Israeli terrorists killed then, and you cant count those killed in war because hamas placed them as human shields.

 Guess your numbers just went way below the ones for hamas and fatah terrorists


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to Israel.
Click to expand...

Arab-Moslem terrorists choose violence and depravity vs. a productive life.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
Click to expand...

We were discussing pre Zionist colonization.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We were discussing pre Zionist colonization.
Click to expand...






 Not in your question so you lose again for trying to change the rules because you were beaten

 But that would go back to 1850 and the arab muslims were rampaging through palestine then raping, stealing and killing


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We were discussing pre Zionist colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in your question so you lose again for trying to change the rules because you were beaten
> 
> But that would go back to 1850 and the arab muslims were rampaging through palestine then raping, stealing and killing
Click to expand...

Which arab muslims are you talking about?

Link?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We were discussing pre Zionist colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in your question so you lose again for trying to change the rules because you were beaten
> 
> But that would go back to 1850 and the arab muslims were rampaging through palestine then raping, stealing and killing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which arab muslims are you talking about?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...





The few that were roaming the M.E. at that time, as none had any roots or permanent abode. They would ride in on their camels, rape the females, steal their money and food, destroy a few houses, beat up the men and then ride out again after enforcing jizya and dhimmi laws. Then they would move to the next village and the next and so on. All detailed in the real history books, not your islamonazi propaganda ones


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
Click to expand...

Those are all post Zionist colonization.

You lose.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.



So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
Click to expand...

The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
Click to expand...


Of course not. Anywhere Arab-Moslems are in a significant majority, they purge the area of Jews.

Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times - PMW Bulletins

Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times


Nope. No problem at all with Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. Anywhere Arab-Moslems are in a significant majority, they purge the area of Jews.
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times
> 
> 
> Nope. No problem at all with Jews.
Click to expand...

Jews were not mentioned once in that article.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> as none had any roots or permanent abode.


Full of crap, as usual.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
Click to expand...


Oh give me a break.  Of course the Arab Muslim Palestinians have problems with Jews.  You keep trying to make it seem like there are "good" Jews and "evil" Jews.  You are just more subtle about it than steve is.  "Good" Jews don't want self-determination and self-government and, you know, equal rights.  "Good" Jews don't want a State and independence.  "Good" Jews don't want to walk on the Temple Mount, let alone (gasp!) pray there!  "Good" Jews understand that if they take their children to pizza restaurant, or walk along the street or are laying at night in their beds and are stabbed or run over with a car or bombed with nails and little pieces of scrap metal that its all their own fault for existing in a place where they shouldn't be.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. Anywhere Arab-Moslems are in a significant majority, they purge the area of Jews.
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times
> 
> 
> Nope. No problem at all with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews were not mentioned once in that article.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. Anywhere Arab-Moslems are in a significant majority, they purge the area of Jews.
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times
> 
> 
> Nope. No problem at all with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews were not mentioned once in that article.
Click to expand...

Wearing your islamo-tap dancing shoes.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, Negative Propaganda can be an ugly business.   The amplification in public, as well as in private, and can be direct and explicit --- as well as implicit indirect.  One of the aspect levels of propaganda is its its character as a ‘‘inchoate’’ type crime.  Encouragement through adoration and praise by prominent leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Khaled Mashal can not be a intellectually felt by opponents to violence; but, cannot be directly tied to a fatal event as the principle initiating cause or primary agent which leads to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> 
> The notion of incitement to violence by Arab Palestinian Leaders implies that there is no possibility to hold these Arab Palestinians accountable.   This is actually the primary weakness and flaw in the system of Human Rights promotion.
> 
> Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), described as being “among the strongest condemnations of hate speech” and the prohibition on incitement, states:
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> The "Electronic Intifada" (ei) is a classic example _(but by far not the only one)_ of an outlet prinicple designed to incite hatred and violence on a mass media level.  While the Human Rights Law (Article 20)  does not to prohibit advocacy of hatred in private --- that instigates non-violent acts of racial or religious discrimination;” effective remedies applies further prohibition enforcement of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred? by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) toward the Jewish People is non-existent.  This is called tunnel vision by selective enforcement by the pro-Arab Palestinian movement.
> 
> Just as the HoAP advocates _(among many things)_ that the Arab League did not attack _(commit acts of aggression)_ against Israel in 1948, it communicate the idea that the HoAP fight to retrieve that which was taken; the instigation of an International Armed Conflict (IAC) by the HoAP and leaders is denied, overlooked or ignored.  While the Israeli defense against HoAP activity is condemned, the attacks by the HoAP carried out with the aim of seriously intimidating the citizens of Israel, or intimidation a frightened Government or an international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a conflict induced by the HoAP (in its various incarnations) for nearly seven decades, there is no question that Israel can be found to have taken improper actions and make poor decisions.  And it is no big deal and hardly surprising, that of the thousands of interactions each day with Arab Palestinians, some adverse events will occur that the Electronic Intifada (ei) might capitalize on.   But at the end of the day, the confrontations could stop if the Arab Palestinians actually wanted to focus their attentions to nationalization development projects that the West Bank and Gaza Strip need.
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?  They are the culture that would rather glorify Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence than seek a peaceful solutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
Click to expand...







 How so as you did not stipulate any end date in your original request,   it is 12 lines right above this one and deals with the period from Zionist implementation


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
Click to expand...








 Then why are they saying they will wipe them out  ?   And have travelled to other countries to do so


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So once again, your argument is that the mere presence of Jews justifies murderous behaviour ("resistance").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians don't have problems with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. Anywhere Arab-Moslems are in a significant majority, they purge the area of Jews.
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Fatah TV broadcasts terror promoting song 72 times
> 
> 
> Nope. No problem at all with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews were not mentioned once in that article.
Click to expand...








Implied old boy, implied.    And if you dont like it take it up with the hamas leaders


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> as none had any roots or permanent abode.
> 
> 
> 
> Full of crap, as usual.
Click to expand...








 Proves nothing as it does not show the source of the arab muslims who migrated illegally to the mandate of palestine. You have yet to prove that they can trace their occupation back more than 4 or 5 generations


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ignoring the fact the Zionist/Israeli settler colonialism was/is the initial and continuing aggression against a peaceful people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so as you did not stipulate any end date in your original request,   it is 12 lines right above this one and deals with the period from Zionist implementation
Click to expand...

You are the one who defined the time period

So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ramadan - a ding dong. A time for beating up women.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ramadan - a ding dong. A time for beating up women.


Time for jail.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims. Questions you constantly refuse to answer due to the answers showing that you are just spreading propaganda to incite violence against the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> So, what aggression have the Palestinians initiated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on what you class as a palestinian, but going on any arab muslim that lives in the former mandate of palestine is a palestinian then I will start back in 1929
> 
> 
> 1   1929 the mufti ( a palaestinian ) instigated an attack on the Jews of Hebron and Jerusalem that led to a massacre.
> 2   1930 the mufti instigated a civil war that led to arabs killing Jews
> 3   1931 another civil war
> 4   1947 a civil uprising in protest at the UN reccomendation that was a cover for attacks on the Jews and British
> 5   1948 an invasion of Israel with the intent to wipe out the Jews
> 6   1967 an invasion of Israel to wipe out the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want the 3 terrorism campaigns from gaza, the 3 intifada's and the recent attacks on unarmed children, about 3000 incidents in all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are all post Zionist colonization.
> 
> You lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so as you did not stipulate any end date in your original request,   it is 12 lines right above this one and deals with the period from Zionist implementation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who defined the time period
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.​
Click to expand...






WHERE   show the post. I never define a time period were islamonazi's are concerned I go back to 625 when they where invented and to the present day. This shows they have never changed one iota


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>








 They dont really fast, they just dont eat during daylight hours, but they pig out on fatty unhealthy foods as soon as the sun sets. A proper fast you dont eat or drink at all no matter what the time is


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ramadan - a ding dong. A time for beating up women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for jail.
Click to expand...






 I agree and they should then be deported for their crime


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
"Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.



P F Tinmore said:


> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."  

"Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*

The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​

BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.

Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
Click to expand...









 Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started
Click to expand...

Two separate and unrelated issues.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
Click to expand...

Tinmore, Tinmore, Tinmore.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
Click to expand...


Nonsense. We know from the Ottoman land records that the major land owners were absentee owners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. _The Zionists_™ didn't kick them out of their homes in foreign lands.

We know from the Ottoman land records that the major, absentee land owners sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.

Your claims of people being kicked out of their homes and their land stolen, are, in a nut shell, utterly bogus.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes,,, that is why I linked that reference.



P F Tinmore said:


> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.


*(COMMENT)*

It demonstrates that your abstract concept of "Zionism" was not universal by any means.  As for "kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land,"  I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War (Palestinian 'vs' Palestinian) - the conflict before the Declaration of Independence in May 1948.  The Arab Palestinians did not like the outcome, and periodically want a replay.

The various Humanitarian Law and contemporary values that Arab Palestinians most often cry about are just attempts under the color of law to prolong the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.  And each time the Arab Palestinians make such a new attempt, their outcome is less favorable then the time before.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. We know from the Ottoman land records that the major land owners were absentee owners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. _The Zionists_™ didn't kick them out of their homes in foreign lands.
> 
> We know from the Ottoman land records that the major, absentee land owners sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.
> 
> Your claims of people being kicked out of their homes and their land stolen, are, in a nut shell, utterly bogus.
Click to expand...


No, you don't "know that from Ottoman land records".  You are lying, as usual. The Ottoman land records and ownership changes during the Mandate were used to produce this map.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. We know from the Ottoman land records that the major land owners were absentee owners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. _The Zionists_™ didn't kick them out of their homes in foreign lands.
> 
> We know from the Ottoman land records that the major, absentee land owners sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.
> 
> Your claims of people being kicked out of their homes and their land stolen, are, in a nut shell, utterly bogus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you don't "know that from Ottoman land records".  You are lying, as usual. The Ottoman land records and ownership changes during the Mandate were used to produce this map.
Click to expand...


Yes, yes. Another cut and paste of the same map that means nothing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War


What civil war?

The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
Click to expand...

You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?


----------



## montelatici

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
Click to expand...


Hollie has never quite understood that the Zionists came from Europe, a different continent.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

You crack me up.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hollie has never quite understood that the Zionists came from Europe, a different continent.
Click to expand...


As opposed to the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese absentee landowners who (so you understand what absentee means) did not live in your mythical "country of Pal'istan.

You also don't understand that the Mandate for Palestinian had a goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

Hamas is always looking for a few good lackeys. Trade in your ineffectual on-line gee-had for a more emphatic one, Mahmoud.


----------



## montelatici

The owners were Palestinian, as confirmed by the UN.  Stop making things up.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The owners were Palestinian, as confirmed by the UN.  Stop making things up.


Substantial portions of the land area was owned by absentee landlords in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

Come to terms with your ignorance.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Do you mean the order that was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the order that was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun?
Click to expand...

What was imposed on the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese absentee landowners? They sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers. 

You whine and moan about the history you want to re-write. 

Hamas is hiring. Get a job.


----------



## montelatici

Still making things up.  No facts just propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the order that was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was imposed on the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese absentee landowners? They sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.
> 
> You whine and moan about the history you want to re-write.
> 
> Hamas is hiring. Get a job.
Click to expand...

OK, but by 1948 that was only about 7% of Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but by 1948 that was only about 7% of Palestine.



And only about 5% of land in Palestine was Arab _mulk_ land (privately owned).  

The problem is not the small percentages of land which was privately owned.  The problem is what to do with the concept of _miri _land -- land which is not privately purchased and owned, per se, but belongs to the State and is leased under certain conditions in perpetuity.  The land isn't owned, but the right to the fruits of the land and the continued right of cultivation is owned.  The principle behind it is that land which land which can be cultivated, but currently isn't being cultivated, can be taken up by anyone who wants to cultivate it and by paying tithe and taxes, the rights to the cultivation become owned.  

Its a useful system when there are vast tracts of land which can be cultivated and aren't being utilized.  It encourages growth and provides additional taxes for the Government.  But its a shitty system when land becomes scarce or when there disputes over territory.  

The really nasty problem for Team Palestine is that the underlying concept is that if you cultivate or use the land -- you own it.  Which means, under Ottoman law (you know, the law that the "occupying power" is required to follow) anyone who uses or cultivates the land becomes the owner.  So settlements are actually, in reality, legitimized by Ottoman law.


----------



## Hossfly

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the order that was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was imposed on the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese absentee landowners? They sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.
> 
> You whine and moan about the history you want to re-write.
> 
> Hamas is hiring. Get a job.
Click to expand...


What I don't understand, Hollie, is all this constant talk about the  indigenous Palestinians.  Imagine if you have only been in an area for two years, you can be  considered a refugee.  Maybe all the Central Americans and Mexicans who have only been here for two years can be considered a refugee and get all the benefits.  After all, they are coming here for the same reason the Arabs moved into Palestine -- to participate in the economic growth promoted by our country and for employment opportunities.

*'Who Are the Refugees?*

The number of Arabs in Palestine, and particularly in Jewish areas, was increased by the attraction of economic growth promoted by Zionist investment, and later by employment opportunities afforded by the British due to WW II. Until 1938, the British did not regulate immigration from Jordan at all, and did not record it. Anyone who had been in Palestine for at least two years prior to the war, was considered a refugee."


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
Click to expand...







 BULLSHIT      it is the arab muslims that kick people out for nothing, not the Jews. The arab muslims have it within their power to bring a halt to all violence and terrorism and refuse to do so.

 The issue's are related, it is just that the Jews are once again having international law support them and you dont like it.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. We know from the Ottoman land records that the major land owners were absentee owners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. _The Zionists_™ didn't kick them out of their homes in foreign lands.
> 
> We know from the Ottoman land records that the major, absentee land owners sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.
> 
> Your claims of people being kicked out of their homes and their land stolen, are, in a nut shell, utterly bogus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you don't "know that from Ottoman land records".  You are lying, as usual. The Ottoman land records and ownership changes during the Mandate were used to produce this map.
Click to expand...









 LIAR     as this was drawn by a committee before the UN was even invented, and was based on false information


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
Click to expand...








 Thats the one, when arab muslims from Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Saudi attacked the palestinian Jews


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've fallen down and bumped your head again, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hollie has never quite understood that the Zionists came from Europe, a different continent.
Click to expand...







 Just like the Catholic Christians then went to palestine, South America and parts of Europe.

 Monte does not understand that most Zionists are not Jewish, and so did not migrate when invited to do so by the LoN


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The owners were Palestinian, as confirmed by the UN.  Stop making things up.









 Then why haven't you produced an official UN document, and not the anti semitic rubbish you try and palm of as being from the UN


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the order that was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun?
Click to expand...







Was it indeed, they did not have to comply with it they could have done nothing and lost all chances of getting something out of it. Hold on that is exactly what they did do and have lost it all as a result. It was never imposed on them at the point of a gun, this is just one of your many LIES that you have failed to prove


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Still making things up.  No facts just propaganda.








Projection again


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that the Arab Palestinians lost the Civil War
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> The one where the foreign colonists attacked the natives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, the two factions of the Citizens of the Territory;  both under the Palestine Citizenship Oder.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the order that was imposed on the Palestinians at the point of a gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was imposed on the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese absentee landowners? They sold large tracts of land to Jewish buyers.
> 
> You whine and moan about the history you want to re-write.
> 
> Hamas is hiring. Get a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but by 1948 that was only about 7% of Palestine.
Click to expand...









AND what rights did they have after they were in receipt of their own homelands, they could not be dual, triple or quad nationalities


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the problem prior to the invention of Zionism in 1875 and the settler/colonialism prior to 1925 by arab muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLSHIT      it is the arab muslims that kick people out for nothing, not the Jews. The arab muslims have it within their power to bring a halt to all violence and terrorism and refuse to do so.
> 
> The issue's are related, it is just that the Jews are once again having international law support them and you dont like it.
Click to expand...

Of course you have never been able to elaborate on that assertion.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/who-are-the-real-heirs-of-zionism.html?_r=0
> "Zionism" was not invented.  In this discussion group, there are pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist.  It is an evolving, but fading philosophy, first brought forward by Nathan Birnbaum  (≈ 1890).  Zionism _*alla*_ Birnbaum was somewhat  ideologically different from the "Zionism" which Theodor Herzl would come to promote.  And we can see the gradual evolutionary processes in Zionism even today; including the politicalization of "Zionism."  Herzl moved "Zionism" to the next level in the mid-1890s, with the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO), a funding stream and the practical application of "zionism."   With the next major leap for "zionism" was the moving to Jewish Corporate based system.   Since the declaration of Israel, "zionism" went through an evolutionary change yet again -- although it almost went unnoticed.  More enlightened then before the adoption of the Partition Plan, the "Zionist" component of Jewish national development became focused on issue of peace and security --- with the emphasis of a Defense Force and government that was more secular in nature.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, --- it must be understood that within the Jewish Community in both Europe and Palestine, with a major trigger in 1933 onward _(the party inspired boycott of business, academic/scientific involvement, and professional practices)_, from which the Palestinians and Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) mimic from a page in the NAZI Playbook --- was not of one mind.  There was a diversity in views as to what was happening, what was meant, and what to do about it.  "Zionism" between 1933 and 1939, was not of a single mind, and would become much more concerned with the escape and evasion form the "Holocaust."  It was more about survival than about the politics of the time.      Zionism and the WZO would not become cohesive and symbiotic until the post-war era _(a reconstruction period)_.  There was a very interesting _New York Times_ piece (*Who Are the True Heirs of Zionism? *By STEVEN ERLANGERFEB. 4, 2016) which talks of about the difference the different facets of "Zionism."
> 
> "Zionism" is the process, yet again, in making another leap in its evolution.  We are not sure what the "New Zionist" are going to become; but it seems to focus on Peace and Security.  Whatever you think the "Zionist" were --- or --- whatever you might think the "Zionist" are, I'm willing to bet they will become something different yet again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLSHIT      it is the arab muslims that kick people out for nothing, not the Jews. The arab muslims have it within their power to bring a halt to all violence and terrorism and refuse to do so.
> 
> The issue's are related, it is just that the Jews are once again having international law support them and you dont like it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have never been able to elaborate on that assertion.
Click to expand...







 It is done all the time, and you just switch of and ignore what was written. Then demand the same link a few posts later because you want the answer you expected and did not get.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM — ZIONISM was never the gentlest of ideologies. The return of the Jewish people to their biblical homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty there *have always carried within them the displacement of those already living on the land.*
> 
> The Israeli general and politician Yigal Allon defined Zionism in 1975 as “the national liberation movement of a people exiled from its historic homeland and dispersed among the nations of the world.” Some years later, and more crudely, perhaps, another general and politician, Rehavam Ze’evi, a tough right-winger, said,* “Zionism is in essence the Zionism of transfer,” adding, “If transfer is immoral, then all of Zionism is immoral.”*​
> 
> BTW, transfer is a euphemism for kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land.
> 
> Of course that is the I/P conflict in a nutshell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLSHIT      it is the arab muslims that kick people out for nothing, not the Jews. The arab muslims have it within their power to bring a halt to all violence and terrorism and refuse to do so.
> 
> The issue's are related, it is just that the Jews are once again having international law support them and you dont like it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have never been able to elaborate on that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is done all the time, and you just switch of and ignore what was written. Then demand the same link a few posts later because you want the answer you expected and did not get.
Click to expand...

Same old duck.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct as the evidence proves the arab muslims are good at kicking people out of their homes and stealing their land. Over 1 million Jews were so treated in 1949 when the UN stepped in and stopped the Israelis from finishing the Job the arab muslims started
> 
> 
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLSHIT      it is the arab muslims that kick people out for nothing, not the Jews. The arab muslims have it within their power to bring a halt to all violence and terrorism and refuse to do so.
> 
> The issue's are related, it is just that the Jews are once again having international law support them and you dont like it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have never been able to elaborate on that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is done all the time, and you just switch of and ignore what was written. Then demand the same link a few posts later because you want the answer you expected and did not get.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old duck.
Click to expand...







 No a fact shown by the number of times you ask for the same link because you are not getting the answers you want. Most members are commenting on your inability to take in simple concepts and use them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Majd Al-Masharawy*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## montelatici

Who are the Israeli-Jewish terrorists?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Who are the Israeli-Jewish terrorists?








 Yes who indeed when yiou look at the evidence you find the homes were actually Jewish stolen by the arab muslims. Now the Jews are reclaiming them


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour






Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.

But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,

- See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.
> 
> But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,
> 
> - See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour



Oh, what a shame. Shirley Temper was denied a stop on the Islamic terrorist propaganda tour. 

Chuckle.


----------



## Hollie

Pallywood Studios, Inc., in cooperation with Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., brings you the habitual pattern of Arabs-Moslems exploiting children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.
> 
> But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,
> 
> - See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, what a shame. Shirley Temper was denied a stop on the Islamic terrorist propaganda tour.
> 
> Chuckle.
Click to expand...

It is funny that this little girl scares the crap out of Nutandyahoo and his worthless lackeys in our state department.

BTW, Friends of Sabeel is a Christian group.


----------



## montelatici

Hollie despises Christians.


----------



## Hossfly

Hollie said:


> Pallywood Studios, Inc., in cooperation with Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., brings you the habitual pattern of Arabs-Moslems exploiting children.



Do you think, Hollie, I can sign up that little blond girl for her own reality show?  What a little actress!!!


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.
> 
> But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,
> 
> - See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour










 Known terrorist and agitator so the laws of the USA come into force. She is better known as Shirley Temper and she is looking very old these days. No longer the innocent little girl she was when she was the poster child of fatah, now she is a hard faced brainwashed typical islamonazi terrorist.

 The tour should be stopped on the grounds of it inciting violence and drumming up support for islamonazi terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Hollie despises Christians.







 No just you plastic fake Christians that preach islamonazi  propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.
> 
> But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,
> 
> - See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, what a shame. Shirley Temper was denied a stop on the Islamic terrorist propaganda tour.
> 
> Chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is funny that this little girl scares the crap out of Nutandyahoo and his worthless lackeys in our state department.
> 
> BTW, Friends of Sabeel is a Christian group.
Click to expand...







 In the real world she would have been taken away and cured of her insanity, along with her "Christian" friends.She is a poster child for islamonazi terrorism and so should be given the chance to die as a martyr, she might don the black tent and become a fat old brood mare in the next year or so.

IT IS NOT THE GIRL BUT WHAT SHE PROMOTES THAT HAS PEOPLE WORRIED, AND SO SHE SHOULD BE QUIETLY ELIMINATED SO SHE IS NO LONGER A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY.


----------



## Phoenall

Hossfly said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood Studios, Inc., in cooperation with Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., brings you the habitual pattern of Arabs-Moslems exploiting children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think, Hollie, I can sign up that little blond girl for her own reality show?  What a little actress!!!
Click to expand...







 Give her a taste of KFC and McD's and watch her turn her back on islam. She would renounce her faith as long as she could keep eating those Bic Mac's and fries


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.
> 
> But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,
> 
> - See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, what a shame. Shirley Temper was denied a stop on the Islamic terrorist propaganda tour.
> 
> Chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is funny that this little girl scares the crap out of Nutandyahoo and his worthless lackeys in our state department.
> 
> BTW, Friends of Sabeel is a Christian group.
Click to expand...


Isn't it funny that you believe a tool of Islamic terrorists scares anyone.


----------



## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was slated to be part of the No Child Behind Bars/Living Resistance speaking tour that is to tour the US beginning on January 15, 2017, but according to an email sent out yesterday by the Friends of Sabeel North America (FOSNA), she has been denied a visa to enter the country.
> 
> But the tour, it seems, will proceed anyway, and even though Ahed will not be here physically, plans nonetheless are being made to link her to US audiences via live-stream video,
> 
> - See more at: 15-year-old Ahed Tamimi denied visa by State Dept for US speaking tour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, what a shame. Shirley Temper was denied a stop on the Islamic terrorist propaganda tour.
> 
> Chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is funny that this little girl scares the crap out of Nutandyahoo and his worthless lackeys in our state department.
> 
> BTW, Friends of Sabeel is a Christian group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't it funny that you believe a tool of Islamic terrorists scares anyone.
Click to expand...








 What she promotes should be scaring tinny  the most as he is not immune to the violence and terrorism once it starts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Speculation city.

You people are too funny.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rafeef Ziadah - The Palestine I Know*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Speculation city.
> 
> You people are too funny.


Flailing your Pom Poms for further exploitation of children.

That's not funny at all but rather a sad commentary on the lengths that people like you will go to promote your hatreds / self-hate.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem terrorists-in-training that so many exploited islamo-bots know.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Rafeef Ziadah - The Palestine I Know*
> 
> **










 Again all you have is islamonai talking points and arab muslim propaganda, nothing of any substance to prove any of your claims. Even her name is not of palestine and most likely Iraqi or Iranian


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*ZENA AGHA*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian talent showcased at "Let's All Be Free" Festival *

**


----------



## Hollie

Showcasing the Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Fida Qishta*

*Where Should the Birds Fly? (2014 Palestinian Film Festival Australia) 
*

**


----------



## Hollie

Where shall the Islamic terrorists die?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Wrap up of another wasted life. Such are the wages of Islamic Terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Nth Annual Death Cult Festival


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Huwaida Arraf*

**


----------



## Hollie

Holding Islamic terrorists accountable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Suheir Hammad*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ramzy Baroud:*


----------



## Hollie

Islamo-knocking.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamo-knocking.


Thank you for posting all of these Israeli war crimes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamo-knocking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting all of these Israeli war crimes.
Click to expand...

What war crimes? 

Indeed, another conspiracy theory of yours.


----------



## Hollie

Pallywood Disinformation Service


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Diana Buttu*

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian Mother of the Year Nominee


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa *

**


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had Denied.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dana Dajani*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - knife play


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor daoud *

****


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

Muhammud al muhammud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

* Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> Muhammud al muhammud.


----------



## Hollie

Free Pal'istan from the Pal'istanian terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Amena El Ashkar*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who _were_ the Arab-Moslem terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


Where does she say anything about hating Jews? She specifically calls for the equality of everyone including the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who _were_ the Arab-Moslem terrorists


Israel bombing more civilians. WOW!


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now that is interesting.  Look at how centered on the target the camera is, waiting for the event.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who _were_ the Arab-Moslem terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel bombing more civilians. WOW!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

My first reaction is that this was a staged event.  The cameraman knew it was coming in advance of the single strike.

Second, the people giving material support to the HAMAS leadership in Gaza knew that strike was coming and had the opportunity evade.

Customary and IHL Rules:

23.  Location of Military Objectives outside Densely Populated Areas
24.  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Rocco just can't help it.  He makes up the most fantastic excuses for Israeli war crimes.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Rocco just can't help it.  He makes up the most fantastic excuses for Israeli war crimes.


Defending oneself from Islamic terrorism is certainly not a war crime


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now that is interesting.  Look at how centered on the target the camera is, waiting for the event.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who _were_ the Arab-Moslem terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel bombing more civilians. WOW!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> My first reaction is that this was a staged event.  The cameraman knew it was coming in advance of the single strike.
> 
> Second, the people giving material support to the HAMAS leadership in Gaza knew that strike was coming and had the opportunity evade.
> 
> Customary and IHL Rules:
> 
> 23.  Location of Military Objectives outside Densely Populated Areas
> 24.  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nathalie Handal *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Noor Harazeen*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


Pfffft. chickenfeed.

*Mona Samouni*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nadia Hijab*


----------



## Hollie

Breaking through Islamist terrorist barriers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. chickenfeed.
> 
> *Mona Samouni*
Click to expand...


Where should the islamo-rocks fly?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. chickenfeed.
> 
> *Mona Samouni*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where should the islamo-rocks fly?
Click to expand...

The Palestinians fighting foreign troops. Cool. They have the right to do that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. chickenfeed.
> 
> *Mona Samouni*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where should the islamo-rocks fly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians fighting foreign troops. Cool. They have the right to do that.
Click to expand...


Fail your Pom Poms as Arab-Moslem terrorists die. They have a right to die. Waging war against a sovereign state gives them that right. 

Don't break a nail waging your gee-had from behind a keyboard... you delicate flower.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. chickenfeed.
> 
> *Mona Samouni*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where should the islamo-rocks fly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians fighting foreign troops. Cool. They have the right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fail your Pom Poms as Arab-Moslem terrorists die. They have a right to die. Waging war against a sovereign state gives them that right.
> 
> Don't break a nail waging your gee-had from behind a keyboard... you delicate flower.
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. chickenfeed.
> 
> *Mona Samouni*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where should the islamo-rocks fly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians fighting foreign troops. Cool. They have the right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fail your Pom Poms as Arab-Moslem terrorists die. They have a right to die. Waging war against a sovereign state gives them that right.
> 
> Don't break a nail waging your gee-had from behind a keyboard... you delicate flower.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit?
Click to expand...


_Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit? ™_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Actually, I read _Al-Shabaka_ (AKA: The Network) occasionally _(The Palestinian Policy Network)_.  But I don't think that they are a real Think Tank.   They are registered in California in 2009 as Middle East Policy Network doing business as Al-Shabaka.  (Credit where Credit is due:  Al-Shabaka ranks 33 of 80 Best Think Tank Network, as rated by the _2015 Global Go To Think Tank Index Report_, The Lauder Institute ---The University of Pennsylvania.  (Just for Comparison the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) (United States) ranks 27th)

Think tanks are public-policy research analysis and engagement organizations that generate policy-oriented research, analysis, and advice on domestic and international issues, thereby enabling policymakers and the public to make informed decisions about public policy.​
_Al-Shabaka_ produces some interesting perspectives, but as far as being an independent investigatory arm, they are biased.  They appear to often have preconceived --- for which they then dig-out material to support their position and conclusion.  It does educate and foster public debate in the directions in their agenda; which is not all that dissimilar to University of Bath --- Institute for Policy Research (IPR). 



P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> *Nadia Hijab*


*(COMMENT)*

Q:  Who are the Palestinians?

A:  People who want to make you believe that they are _Aspiring_ Muslims trying to be honest to himself and to others... staying truthful in all matters and under all conditions.
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _Al-Shabaka_ produces some interesting perspectives, but as far as being an independent investigatory arm, they are biased.


*All *think tanks shovel shit. That is their reason for being although I have not seen anything outrageous out of Al-Shabaka.


RoccoR said:


> They appear to often have preconceived --- for which they then dig-out material to support their position and conclusion.


Examples?


----------



## P F Tinmore

An independent, non-partisan, and non-profit organization whose mission is to educate and foster public debate on Palestinian human rights and self determination within the framework of international law.

Home - Al-Shabaka


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> An independent, non-partisan, and non-profit organization whose mission is to educate and foster public debate on Palestinian human rights and self determination within the framework of international law.
> 
> Home - Al-Shabaka



"foster public debate on Palestinian human rights and self determination within the framework of international law."

Well, isn't that interesting? Those attributes above being pursued by various, designated Islamic terrorist franchises. Wow. The things you learn  at islamic terrorist propaganda networks.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Where does she say anything about hating Jews? She specifically calls for the equality of everyone including the Jews.



No, she doesn't.  She calls for the dismantlement of all "Zionist" structures, all "Zionist" laws, all "Zionist" institutions.  She calls for the return of "Palestine" to the Arab world.  She is not calling for Jewish equality, she is calling for Arab supremacy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi:*
*‘Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalise oppression’*

*



*

Nakba is not an isolated incident in history. Not a single memory that stands distant and frozen on the pages of time. Its commemoration is a reminder of the beginning of an ongoing crime. It forces us to reflect on a relentless inescapable reality. We carry it in our collective conscience, a precious pain that cannot be extracted from our identity. We are Palestinians and we cannot forget what has not yet ceased to be.

We cannot forget the 1948 massacre of Deir Yassin, nor wash away from our eyes the images of scattered children limbs in Gaza in 2014. Same crimes, same excuses and same ideology. Same criminals, same rhetoric and same international complicity. But we know that no perfect crime can stand the scrutiny of time. So we carry our Palestine in our hearts and in our living memory.

Sixty-eight years ago Palestine was erased from the map, but no map is set in stone. Maps have no heart and soul. Maps don’t reflect the sanctity and beauty of life. So let them keep their map, and let us look erasure in the eye. We tell our occupiers that we are here and it is here that we will stay. Demolish our homes, steal our land, detain our children…oh … but if only they can leave our children alone. Here, in the native place of our existence, on the soil of our ancestors, we will survive and we will transcend their brutality with infinite persistence. With beauty and resistance. So let them keep their map and draw the lines as they please. In the end, lines on pages do not determine our people’s destiny.

‘We’re Still Here’: What Nakba Day Means In Australia - New Matilda


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalise oppression’*
> 
> Nakba is not an isolated incident in history. Not a single memory that stands distant and frozen on the pages of time. Its commemoration is a reminder of the beginning of an ongoing crime. It forces us to reflect on a relentless inescapable reality. We carry it in our collective conscience, a precious pain that cannot be extracted from our identity. We are Palestinians and we cannot forget what has not yet ceased to be.
> 
> We cannot forget the 1948 massacre of Deir Yassin, nor wash away from our eyes the images of scattered children limbs in Gaza in 2014. Same crimes, same excuses and same ideology. Same criminals, same rhetoric and same international complicity. But we know that no perfect crime can stand the scrutiny of time. So we carry our Palestine in our hearts and in our living memory.
> 
> Sixty-eight years ago Palestine was erased from the map, but no map is set in stone. Maps have no heart and soul. Maps don’t reflect the sanctity and beauty of life. So let them keep their map, and let us look erasure in the eye. We tell our occupiers that we are here and it is here that we will stay. Demolish our homes, steal our land, detain our children…oh … but if only they can leave our children alone. Here, in the native place of our existence, on the soil of our ancestors, we will survive and we will transcend their brutality with infinite persistence. With beauty and resistance. So let them keep their map and draw the lines as they please. In the end, lines on pages do not determine our people’s destiny.



Oh, the irony.


----------



## Hollie

_Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._

"... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> _Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._
> 
> "... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".


Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._
> 
> "... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.
Click to expand...


Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._
> 
> "... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

You didn't watch the video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._
> 
> "... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't watch the video.
Click to expand...


How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._
> 
> "... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't watch the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?
Click to expand...

You posted it but didn't watch it.

What is the first thing they said?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Our people will not be silenced nor will we normalize oppression._
> 
> "... except by the Islamic terrorists we idolize. Then it's alright".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't watch the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You posted it but didn't watch it.
> 
> What is the first thing they said?
Click to expand...


Are you furthering a conspiracy?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, not that old video about the US coup in Gaza again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't watch the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You posted it but didn't watch it.
> 
> What is the first thing they said?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you furthering a conspiracy?
Click to expand...

No, you just do not understand your post.

That is why you are ducking my question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no. Not another of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't watch the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You posted it but didn't watch it.
> 
> What is the first thing they said?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you furthering a conspiracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you just do not understand your post.
> 
> That is why you are ducking my question.
Click to expand...

Your conspiracy theories are your own.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't watch the video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You posted it but didn't watch it.
> 
> What is the first thing they said?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you furthering a conspiracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you just do not understand your post.
> 
> That is why you are ducking my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are your own.
Click to expand...

They are in your video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many of your silly conspiracies are presented on YouTube?
> 
> 
> 
> You posted it but didn't watch it.
> 
> What is the first thing they said?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you furthering a conspiracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you just do not understand your post.
> 
> That is why you are ducking my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are in your video.
Click to expand...

Your conspiracy theories are in the video?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.
Click to expand...

Another of your conspiracy theories?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another of your conspiracy theories?
Click to expand...

The first thing he said was a lie.

You didn't watch your own post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another of your conspiracy theories?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie.
> 
> You didn't watch your own post?
Click to expand...

OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another of your conspiracy theories?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie.
> 
> You didn't watch your own post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Its your post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another of your conspiracy theories?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie.
> 
> You didn't watch your own post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its your post.
Click to expand...

It's your conspiracy theory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie. I just turned it off.
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your conspiracy theories?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie.
> 
> You didn't watch your own post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its your post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

Why would you post lies?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your conspiracy theories?
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie.
> 
> You didn't watch your own post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its your post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you post lies?
Click to expand...

Why are you promoting conspiracy theories?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing he said was a lie.
> 
> You didn't watch your own post?
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its your post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you post lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you promoting conspiracy theories?
Click to expand...

Pointing out your lie Is a conspiracy theory?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so this is another of your conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> Its your post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you post lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you promoting conspiracy theories?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pointing out your lie Is a conspiracy theory?
Click to expand...

Yet a continuation of your conspiracy theory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?
*Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian Journalism


----------



## Phoenall

Hollie said:


> Pal'istanian Journalism








 Not very arab looking are they, they could almost be Europeans with their blue eyes and blonde hair. Could they be illegal immigrants


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanian Journalism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not very arab looking are they, they could almost be Europeans with their blue eyes and blonde hair. Could they be illegal immigrants
Click to expand...

Who said Palestinians have to be Arab...or Muslim?


----------



## Phoenall

YOU


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Edward Said National Conservatory of Music Video *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

Fatah: “To be a real Palestinian you must be a self-sacrificing fighter” - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah: “To be a real Palestinian
you must be a self-sacrificing fighter”*

Fatah honored the founders and heads of terror organizations responsible for murdering hundreds as part of its 52nd anniversary celebration:

-   Ahmad Yassin, founder of Hamas  
-   Fathi Shaqaqi, founder Islamic Jihad 
-   Abu Ali Mustafa, head of PFLP

Fatah cited as role models:
-   Terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led killing of 37 
    *  Mughrabi is “Bride of Palestine” 

-    Arch-terrorist Abu Jihad who orchestrated the murder of at least 125 people


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Fatah honored the founders and heads of terror organizations, blah, blah, blah...


Ooooo terrorists! 

Are you still pimping that crap?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Yeah, the facts speak for themselves.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah honored the founders and heads of terror organizations, blah, blah, blah...
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo terrorists!
> 
> Are you still pimping that crap?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Hollie's choice of the tag is absolutely correct.  BUT!  if you like , I'm sure our friend Hollie would not mind if you substituted one of these:  Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.

In the end, the reduce notion of the equation is that the Arab Palestinian holding "peace" as hostage for political ransom --- those demands which they could not achieve or mucked-up, through legitimate diplomacy.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Yeah, the facts speak for themselves.


Indeed, what the Palestinians do to defend their country is a drop in the bucket compared to Israel's illegal acts of aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I'm sure our friend Hollie would not mind if you substituted one of these: Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.


Name calling is a sign of losing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In the end, the reduce notion of the equation is that the Arab Palestinian holding "peace" as hostage for political ransom --- those demands which they could not achieve or mucked-up, through legitimate diplomacy.


WTF are you talking about?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

OK, and again.  If you are going to make an allegation, be specific.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what the Palestinians do to defend their country is a drop in the bucket compared to Israel's illegal acts of aggression.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Immigration between 1922 and 1948 was under the Authority granted by the International Community.

What act of aggression are you referring to?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Immigration between 1922 and 1948 was under the Authority granted by the International Community.


Do you mean the group of old colonial powers?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

IS IT TRUE: That the Arab Palestinian policy is to conduct Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands? 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, the reduce notion of the equation is that the Arab Palestinian holding "peace" as hostage for political ransom --- those demands which they could not achieve or mucked-up, through legitimate diplomacy.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

That is holding "peace" hostage.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> What act of aggression are you referring to?


People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires aggression to remove the people and replace them with foreigners. Aggression is a necessary part of settler colonialism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?


Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

You can call them anything that you what.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Immigration between 1922 and 1948 was under the Authority granted by the International Community.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the group of old colonial powers?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

During WWI (The Great War), Empires and Colonial Powers were dropping like flies; four great empires fell like dominos _(German, Russian, Ottoman & Austro-Hungarian)_.  There were more that two dozen constituent territories, ruled by royal families, that came apart _(although some survived, like the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg)_.  

The world was changing at light speed.  YES!  Many of the Allied Powers were also colonial powers.  It does not diminish their authority in any way.  That was the way business was done a century ago.  You cannot roll back the clock and apply 21st Century thinking to the Powers at the ready in the early 20th Century.  By the way, the US and the UK are still _(technically)_  Colonial Powers _(albeit a Benevolent Colonial Power)_.  It does not diminish there authority.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come off it.  You are using this propaganda technique to incite emotions.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What act of aggression are you referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires aggression to remove the people and replace them with foreigners. Aggression is a necessary part of settler colonialism.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Between 1920 and 1945, there was not displace of Arab Palestinians.  

But Im curious, as to what laws you are applying and when?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah honored the founders and heads of terror organizations, blah, blah, blah...
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo terrorists!
> 
> Are you still pimping that crap?
Click to expand...







 Are you still into self denial, rather than face up to the reality that you are wrong


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Here you go again with incitement.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.

If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.

So, you can put that horse in the barn.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what the Palestinians do to defend their country is a drop in the bucket compared to Israel's illegal acts of aggression.
Click to expand...








 That you pimp outrageously all the time without once showing any evidence to support your claims.

 Responding to war crimes is not illegal

 returning fire is not illegal

 shooting an armed aggressor is not illegal

What does this leave you ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure our friend Hollie would not mind if you substituted one of these: Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> Name calling is a sign of losing.
Click to expand...








 Not as much as telling lies to cover up the violence, or being unable to substantiate your claims


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, the reduce notion of the equation is that the Arab Palestinian holding "peace" as hostage for political ransom --- those demands which they could not achieve or mucked-up, through legitimate diplomacy.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
Click to expand...







 Dont you understand English ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Immigration between 1922 and 1948 was under the Authority granted by the International Community.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the group of old colonial powers?
Click to expand...








The winners who set the rules, and they gave 22% of the land to the indigenous Jews. The arab muslims got the remaining 78%


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What act of aggression are you referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires aggression to remove the people and replace them with foreigners. Aggression is a necessary part of settler colonialism.
Click to expand...









 Which did not take place in the years from 1850 to 1948, other than by the arab muslims. So once again you fail to prove your case because you have no evidence.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
Click to expand...









 The Jews have been asking for the arab muslims to do that since 1948, and still they refuse


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Too late to close the barn door. That horse has already left.

Israel's colonialism is talked about all over the place. It is getting harder for Israel to hide that fact.

BTW, since when was the UN perfect?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*The Empire Files: How Palestine Became Colonized *

**


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are still being nebulas....



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too late to close the barn door. That horse has already left.
> 
> Israel's colonialism is talked about all over the place. It is getting harder for Israel to hide that fact.
> 
> BTW, since when was the UN perfect?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Hide what facts?  That the immigration was authorized by international authorities?????

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are still being nebulas....
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too late to close the barn door. That horse has already left.
> 
> Israel's colonialism is talked about all over the place. It is getting harder for Israel to hide that fact.
> 
> BTW, since when was the UN perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hide what facts?  That the immigration was authorized by international authorities?????
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The immigration policies were imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun.

And you are OK with that?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too late to close the barn door. That horse has already left.
> 
> Israel's colonialism is talked about all over the place. It is getting harder for Israel to hide that fact.
> 
> BTW, since when was the UN perfect?
Click to expand...







 Must be in your hate groups and the mosques because I have never come across anyone even mentioning it other than team palestine


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are still being nebulas....
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too late to close the barn door. That horse has already left.
> 
> Israel's colonialism is talked about all over the place. It is getting harder for Israel to hide that fact.
> 
> BTW, since when was the UN perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hide what facts?  That the immigration was authorized by international authorities?????
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The immigration policies were imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> And you are OK with that?
Click to expand...








You keep saying this, yet you have no evidence to support it. Are you still denying that the majority of palestinians at that time were Jews and welcomed the creation of the Jewish national home


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are still being nebulas....
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too late to close the barn door. That horse has already left.
> 
> Israel's colonialism is talked about all over the place. It is getting harder for Israel to hide that fact.
> 
> BTW, since when was the UN perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hide what facts?  That the immigration was authorized by international authorities?????
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The immigration policies were imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> And you are OK with that?
Click to expand...

This is another of your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Empire Files: How Palestine Became Colonized *
> 
> **
Click to expand...







meaningless maps as there was never a nation of palestine, just a land area and a mandate


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Empire Files: How Palestine Became Colonized *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaningless maps as there was never a nation of palestine, just a land area and a mandate
Click to expand...

Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Empire Files: How Palestine Became Colonized *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaningless maps as there was never a nation of palestine, just a land area and a mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


 WRONG AGAIN as it is a proven fact. Shown to you many times and still you ignore it


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Empire Files: How Palestine Became Colonized *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaningless maps as there was never a nation of palestine, just a land area and a mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WRONG AGAIN as it is a proven fact. Shown to you many times and still you ignore it
Click to expand...

See, there is your proof right there.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
Click to expand...


Worse, its the demand to remove people from a territory based on ethnicity, aka ethnic cleansing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Worse, its the demand to remove people from a territory based on ethnicity, aka ethnic cleansing.
Click to expand...

If you check out BDS, not one person calls for the removal of Jews.


----------



## rylah

Who were the Palestinians

Palestinian Jews of 'Kerem Avraham', Jerusalem 1855 :


----------



## montelatici

Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, the British counsel in Jerusalem, nothing ever changes.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, the British counsel in Jerusalem, nothing ever changes.


Of course things change. Earlier, xtian Crusaders bought xtianity to the area.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, the British counsel in Jerusalem, nothing ever changes.



It's 1855, 30 years before the 1st Zionist immigration.
This are the people who were expelled from Safed and Hebron and flee to Jerusalem.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If you check out BDS, not one person calls for the removal of Jews.



*newsflash* YOU called for ethnic cleansing with your demand that "Palestine" be decolonized of Jews.  Don't misdirect to BDS.  Own your shit.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is misdirection.



P F Tinmore said:


> If you check out BDS, not one person calls for the removal of Jews.


*(COMMENT)*

The BSD Movement is just one aspect of Arab Palestinian incitement.  Many of the members of the BSD are also member of activists and those that provide material supporters for Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

Which one of these novel Palestinian groups is dedicated to the settlement of disputes by peaceful means.


Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)
Palestinian Authority (PA)
The Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Al-Aqsa Brigade
Tanzim-Fatah​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, the British counsel in Jerusalem, nothing ever changes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's 1855, 30 years before the 1st Zionist immigration.
> This are the people who were expelled from Safed and Hebron and flee to Jerusalem.
Click to expand...


They are Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, a Christian Zionist ahead of his time.  Again, nothing ever changes.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, the British counsel in Jerusalem, nothing ever changes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's 1855, 30 years before the 1st Zionist immigration.
> This are the people who were expelled from Safed and Hebron and flee to Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, a Christian Zionist ahead of his time.  Again, nothing ever changes.
Click to expand...


There were Palestinian Jews before 1839, before England opened its' first council in Palestine.
Otherwise to whom would Napoleon propose establish a Jewish homeland there?


----------



## montelatici

Napoleon's letter proclaimed that since "his young army" conquered Palestine he was invited Jews around the to go to Palestine under a French colonial protectorate.  Not too much different than what the British proposed later.  Still, Napoleon was promoting the replacement of the native people of Palestine with Jews from elsewhere.  

"In 1799, the French armies under Napoleon were camped outside of Acre. Napoleon issued a letter offering Palestine as a homeland to the Jews under French protection. The project was stillborn because Napoleon was defeated and was forced to withdraw from the Near East. The letter is remarkable because it marks the coming of age of enlightenment philosophy, making it respectable at last to integrate Jews as equal citizens in Europe and because it marked the beginning of nineteenth century projects for Jewish autonomy in Palestine under a colonial protectorate."

Napoleon's Proclamation of a Jewish State - 1799


----------



## rylah

Of course he emancipated the Jews in Europe, however since we're discussing the time around the Acre siege it was directed towards Jews who lived allover the Galilee area.


----------



## montelatici

No, the letter was directed to the Jewish Nation, as he called it.  Not the handful of Jews that may or may not have been in Palestine at the time.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> No, the letter was directed to the Jewish Nation, as he called it.  Not the handful of Jews that may or may not have been in Palestine at the time.



If You're trying to deny the existence of Jews in Palestine You're in big trouble.

Haim Farkhi, the de facto ruler of Acre was in Napoleon's mind. He was a Jew and he was a Palestinian along with thousands of other Jews who lived in Tiberias, Safed, Hebron and Jerusalem.


----------



## montelatici

There were a handful of Jews in Palestine at the time, not "thousands".  

The original French text of the letter makes it clear who Napoleon was writing to.

 "Alors, debout dans la joie, vous les exilés! (Then stand in joy, you the exiles!). Par une guerre sans exemple dans les annales de l’histoire, guerre engagée pour son auto-défense par une nation dont les territoires héréditaires étaient considérés par l’ennemi comme un butin à partager arbitrairement.........."

PROCLAMATION DE BONAPARTE SUR LA PALESTINE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> If you look at the table of Non-Self Governing Territories by Committee 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization), you will not find Israel listed by the International activity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization.  You will find World Powers like the US, UK, FR, NZ listed; but NOT Israel.
> 
> So, you can put that horse in the barn.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> *The Empire Files: How Palestine Became Colonized *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaningless maps as there was never a nation of palestine, just a land area and a mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WRONG AGAIN as it is a proven fact. Shown to you many times and still you ignore it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See, there is your proof right there.
Click to expand...








 So you admit these maps are meaningless, and that there was never a nation of palestine. And all your claims are centered on the mandate's existence


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Worse, its the demand to remove people from a territory based on ethnicity, aka ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you check out BDS, not one person calls for the removal of Jews.
Click to expand...







 Try again as it is an underlying principle, and you have been shown this many times


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Russian Jews brought to Palestine by an Englishman, the British counsel in Jerusalem, nothing ever changes.











 Actually invited by the Ottomans because the arab muslims refused to do any work


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine at the time, not "thousands".
> 
> The original French text of the letter makes it clear who Napoleon was writing to.
> 
> "Alors, debout dans la joie, vous les exilés! (Then stand in joy, you the exiles!). Par une guerre sans exemple dans les annales de l’histoire, guerre engagée pour son auto-défense par une nation dont les territoires héréditaires étaient considérés par l’ennemi comme un butin à partager arbitrairement.........."
> 
> PROCLAMATION DE BONAPARTE SUR LA PALESTINE



Maybe You overlook the simple fact that when Napoleon wrote it he was in Palestine with his army.
In addition any basic research according to either McCarthy, Scholch or the Ottoman Consensus shows Jews to be 2%-6% of the population in the area Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre Sanjaks.
In The Ottoman Census of 1878 there're  15000 Jews with additional 5000-10000 more foreign citizens estimated by different studies.

Indeed THOUSANDS of Palestinian Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> until the Jewish State of Israel concedes to Arab Palestinian Demands?
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Worse, its the demand to remove people from a territory based on ethnicity, aka ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you check out BDS, not one person calls for the removal of Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as it is an underlying principle, and you have been shown this many times
Click to expand...

And saying it a thousand times more still won't make it true.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine at the time, not "thousands".
> 
> The original French text of the letter makes it clear who Napoleon was writing to.
> 
> "Alors, debout dans la joie, vous les exilés! (Then stand in joy, you the exiles!). Par une guerre sans exemple dans les annales de l’histoire, guerre engagée pour son auto-défense par une nation dont les territoires héréditaires étaient considérés par l’ennemi comme un butin à partager arbitrairement.........."
> 
> PROCLAMATION DE BONAPARTE SUR LA PALESTINE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe You overlook the simple fact that when Napoleon wrote it he was in Palestine with his army.
> In addition any basic research according to either McCarthy, Scholch or the Ottoman Consensus shows Jews to be 2%-6% of the population in the area Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre Sanjaks.
> In The Ottoman Census of 1878 there're  15000 Jews with additional 5000-10000 more foreign citizens estimated by different studies.
> 
> Indeed THOUSANDS of Palestinian Jews.
Click to expand...


Well, fortunately I have access to the actual census, translated into English. The area in question is called the Kudus (Jerusalem) Special District. In that district there were 104 Jewish females and 112 Jewish males.  In the whole of the Ottoman Empire there were less than 200,000 Jews and almost all were in Istanbul and the European part of the Empire.






Ottoman Population, 1830-1914 by Kemal H. Karpat - UNZ.org


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Here you go again with incitement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the demand to decolonize Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is NOT a COLONIAL POWER.  The "demand to decolonize Palestine" is just another way of demanding Israel surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Worse, its the demand to remove people from a territory based on ethnicity, aka ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you check out BDS, not one person calls for the removal of Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as it is an underlying principle, and you have been shown this many times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And saying it a thousand times more still won't make it true.
Click to expand...







 And proving it just once will, and no matter how many times you deny this it wont alter the facts


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine at the time, not "thousands".
> 
> The original French text of the letter makes it clear who Napoleon was writing to.
> 
> "Alors, debout dans la joie, vous les exilés! (Then stand in joy, you the exiles!). Par une guerre sans exemple dans les annales de l’histoire, guerre engagée pour son auto-défense par une nation dont les territoires héréditaires étaient considérés par l’ennemi comme un butin à partager arbitrairement.........."
> 
> PROCLAMATION DE BONAPARTE SUR LA PALESTINE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe You overlook the simple fact that when Napoleon wrote it he was in Palestine with his army.
> In addition any basic research according to either McCarthy, Scholch or the Ottoman Consensus shows Jews to be 2%-6% of the population in the area Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre Sanjaks.
> In The Ottoman Census of 1878 there're  15000 Jews with additional 5000-10000 more foreign citizens estimated by different studies.
> 
> Indeed THOUSANDS of Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, fortunately I have access to the actual census, translated into English. The area in question is called the Kudus (Jerusalem) Special District. In that district there were 104 Jewish females and 112 Jewish males.  In the whole of the Ottoman Empire there were less than 200,000 Jews and almost all were in Istanbul and the European part of the Empire.
> 
> View attachment 105796
> 
> Ottoman Population, 1830-1914 by Kemal H. Karpat - UNZ.org
> 
> 
> View attachment 105798
Click to expand...








 So where is the population figures for palestine then, all you have copied is those for parts of Turkey


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine at the time, not "thousands".
> 
> The original French text of the letter makes it clear who Napoleon was writing to.
> 
> "Alors, debout dans la joie, vous les exilés! (Then stand in joy, you the exiles!). Par une guerre sans exemple dans les annales de l’histoire, guerre engagée pour son auto-défense par une nation dont les territoires héréditaires étaient considérés par l’ennemi comme un butin à partager arbitrairement.........."
> 
> PROCLAMATION DE BONAPARTE SUR LA PALESTINE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe You overlook the simple fact that when Napoleon wrote it he was in Palestine with his army.
> In addition any basic research according to either McCarthy, Scholch or the Ottoman Consensus shows Jews to be 2%-6% of the population in the area Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre Sanjaks.
> In The Ottoman Census of 1878 there're  15000 Jews with additional 5000-10000 more foreign citizens estimated by different studies.
> 
> Indeed THOUSANDS of Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, fortunately I have access to the actual census, translated into English. The area in question is called the Kudus (Jerusalem) Special District. In that district there were 104 Jewish females and 112 Jewish males.  In the whole of the Ottoman Empire there were less than 200,000 Jews and almost all were in Istanbul and the European part of the Empire.
> 
> View attachment 105796
> 
> Ottoman Population, 1830-1914 by Kemal H. Karpat - UNZ.org
> 
> 
> View attachment 105798
Click to expand...


Do You have a link where we can see the headlines of these tables?


----------



## montelatici

Not without payment.  This is not a free document unfortunately.  I had the actual book scanned years ago on a primitive scanner when I was doing research as an assistant professor for a short while.   I can try to clip a bigger portion of the page on the left tomorrow when I have access to a different computer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

_*Israeli forces who turned up to demolish a home in the West Bank village of Budrus were met with an unexpected obstacle: dozens of Palestinian women protecting the house with their bodies.*_

WATCH: Palestinian women prevent West Bank home demolition | +972 Magazine


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Not without payment.  This is not a free document unfortunately.  I had the actual book scanned years ago on a primitive scanner when I was doing research as an assistant professor for a short while.   I can try to clip a bigger portion of the page on the left tomorrow when I have access to a different computer.







 In other words it is just another of your fakes


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> _*Israeli forces who turned up to demolish a home in the West Bank village of Budrus were met with an unexpected obstacle: dozens of Palestinian women protecting the house with their bodies.*_
> 
> WATCH: Palestinian women prevent West Bank home demolition | +972 Magazine









 Now say they are not acting as human shields, and not being killed as a result


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Not without payment.  This is not a free document unfortunately.  I had the actual book scanned years ago on a primitive scanner when I was doing research as an assistant professor for a short while.   I can try to clip a bigger portion of the page on the left tomorrow when I have access to a different computer.



Make it clear so we can see the headlines on both pages, and the year of this data. Without it we cannot draw any conclusions due to the  Falah's (Peasant) Revolt that began with infiltration of the Jewish quarter in Jerusalem and the earthquakes around that time.

In addition if You have the book please include the population of the Jews in the northern area where Safed, Acre, and Tiberias -  the center of Jewish communities at the time.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine at the time, not "thousands".
> 
> The original French text of the letter makes it clear who Napoleon was writing to.
> 
> "Alors, debout dans la joie, vous les exilés! (Then stand in joy, you the exiles!). Par une guerre sans exemple dans les annales de l’histoire, guerre engagée pour son auto-défense par une nation dont les territoires héréditaires étaient considérés par l’ennemi comme un butin à partager arbitrairement.........."
> 
> PROCLAMATION DE BONAPARTE SUR LA PALESTINE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe You overlook the simple fact that when Napoleon wrote it he was in Palestine with his army.
> In addition any basic research according to either McCarthy, Scholch or the Ottoman Consensus shows Jews to be 2%-6% of the population in the area Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre Sanjaks.
> In The Ottoman Census of 1878 there're  15000 Jews with additional 5000-10000 more foreign citizens estimated by different studies.
> 
> Indeed THOUSANDS of Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, fortunately I have access to the actual census, translated into English. The area in question is called the Kudus (Jerusalem) Special District. In that district there were 104 Jewish females and 112 Jewish males.  In the whole of the Ottoman Empire there were less than 200,000 Jews and almost all were in Istanbul and the European part of the Empire.
> 
> View attachment 105796
> 
> Ottoman Population, 1830-1914 by Kemal H. Karpat - UNZ.org
> 
> 
> View attachment 105798
Click to expand...


This is closer to what the majority of scholars like McCarthy and Schloch described.

Population of Jerusalem as reported by Cesar Famin, a French diplomat in 1853 (p.49):

Jews - - - - - - - - - 8,000
Muslims - - - - - - - 4,000
Christians - - - - -  3,490
--------------------------------
Total - - - - - - - - 15,490


----------



## rylah

Here's another example with information from a variety of source depicting the same situation as above. Mind You most scholars reported such numbers (with tolerable variations).

Jerusalem and Its Environs - p. 28-29


----------



## montelatici

Most scholars you are referencing did not have access to the source Ottoman census data nor could they understand it.  The first accurate translation and compilation of the Ottoman censuses  was performed in 1985, what I am providing information from.  Plus, something published by Hebrew University must be taken with a grain of salt.

As promised, here are the top level categories.  As you can discern the categories of the source material are far different from the ones of the "scholars" who did not know how to read the source census material.  That alone should tell how reliable that information is.


----------



## montelatici

Now, to provide more evidence.  

This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.






This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).





The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe





The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
Female  Male




Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.









 So nothing to do with Israel or palestine then, just more of your deflection because the LIES are coming home to roost


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Most scholars you are referencing did not have access to the source Ottoman census data nor could they understand it.  The first accurate translation and compilation of the Ottoman censuses  was performed in 1985, what I am providing information from.  Plus, something published by Hebrew University must be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> As promised, here are the top level categories.  As you can discern the categories of the source material are far different from the ones of the "scholars" who did not know how to read the source census material.  That alone should tell how reliable that information is.
> 
> View attachment 105964



Monte this:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




is *clearly not* from these 2 pages:





All I asked You was to show the FULL table, including the headlines on BOTH pages and the exact years. But if we look at the two page that You've attached (above), it's clear that the left and the right pages and lines do not correspond with the lines on the left and right pages below.

Where are the headline and years I've asked You initially?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.





montelatici said:


> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.



Monte what is this again, an answer to my request to take in account the population of Jews in Galilee? 

You look everywhere but not where Palestine was:
The Acre, Nablus and Damascus districts where the Jews of Sefad, Tiberias, Acre and Haifa lived. And of course Jerusalem district which I'm still waiting to see unaltered.

C'mon You claim You have access to this book, why all the hard work to cut and link little pcitures while with the Balkan and Roman data You did it the easy way and simply copied all the table fully?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most scholars you are referencing did not have access to the source Ottoman census data nor could they understand it.  The first accurate translation and compilation of the Ottoman censuses  was performed in 1985, what I am providing information from.  Plus, something published by Hebrew University must be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> As promised, here are the top level categories.  As you can discern the categories of the source material are far different from the ones of the "scholars" who did not know how to read the source census material.  That alone should tell how reliable that information is.
> 
> View attachment 105964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monte this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is *clearly not* from these 2 pages:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I asked You was to show the FULL table, including the headlines on BOTH pages and the exact years. But if we look at the two page that You've attached (above), it's clear that the left and the right pages and lines do not correspond with the lines on the left and right pages below.
> 
> Where are the headline and years I've asked You initially?
Click to expand...


The lines don't match because it is manually scanned document and the table extends over two pages of a book that with difficulty .  However I will try to do better tomorrow.  However, the consolidated tables prove the point anyway.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Monte what is this again, an answer to my request to take in account the population of Jews in Galilee?
> 
> You look everywhere but not where Palestine was:
> The Acre, Nablus and Damascus districts where the Jews of Sefad, Tiberias, Acre and Haifa lived. And of course Jerusalem district which I'm still waiting to see unaltered.
> 
> C'mon You claim You have access to this book, why all the hard work to cut and link little pcitures while with the Balkan and Roman data You did it the easy way and simply copied all the table fully?
Click to expand...


The places you mention are in the Kudus Special Region, which includes Jerusalem. There are no separate tables of the Kudus Special Region, it is a tiny entity not like the Balkans, Rumelia etc.


----------



## rylah

Monte denying the numerous scholars I've referenced with such a childish argument "they didn't know how to read the data" is telling allot.

*Prof. J. McCarthy* is a demograph and historian, his expertise is exactly in the late Ottoman period. He also has a honorary doctorate from a Turkish university.

*Seetzen*, the German explorer lived in Aleppo for 2 years for the sole purpose of learning Arabic.

*Alexander Scholch* is a former Professor of Modern Middle East Studies at the University of Erlangen in Germany.

*Alan Dawty* is a Professor of Political Science Emeritus, University of Notre Dame.

*Abraham Luncz *was a Russian scholar and journalist who lived in Jerusalem from the age of 14.

*Cesar Famin* was a French consul in the District of Damascus.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## rylah

But let's see what data was provided by a Palestinian scholar:

*Dr. Mutaz M. Qafisheh* is Dean and Professor of International Law, College of Law, Hebron University, Palestine. He received a PhD in International Law from the Graduate Institute of International Studies, Geneva, and is a practicing international lawyer, advising a number of global organizations, including the *UN *and the *PLO*.

He has formerly worked as *Human Rights Officer at the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in Geneva*, Beirut and Ramallah; Regional Director of Penal Reform International, Middle East and North Africa, Amman; Director of Security Sector Reform, Birzeit; Director of Legal Education at Palestinian Law Schools, *Al-Quds; Legal Advisor to the Palestinian Parliament*; and Co-Founder of the Human Rights Program at Al-Quds-Bard Honors College, Jerusalem-New York. Mutaz has authored and edited seven books,including _Palestine Membership in the United Nations: Legal and Practical Implications_ with Cambridge Scholars Publishing, and twenty refereed journal articles published across the globe.











The International Law Foundations of Palestinian Nationality


----------



## montelatici

I am providing you with the source data. You can read the Ottoman data for yourself I'll clip more sections as you asked tomorrow. Even the British census of 1922 showed that only 83,000 Jews were in all of Palestine, that's after after several decades of Zionist migration. This  1922 census is readily available.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, to provide more evidence.
> 
> This is the total ethnic distribution of in the Balkans.
> 
> 
> View attachment 105967
> 
> This the ethnic distribution of Rumelia (the Roman lands, mostly Greece).
> 
> View attachment 105968
> 
> The total distribution of religions of Ottoman Europe
> 
> View attachment 105969
> 
> The Grand total of Jews in the whole of the empire 1890:
> Female  Male
> View attachment 105970
> 
> Out of 194,006 Jews in the 1881-93 census period 190,000 were in Europe.  That leaves about 4,000 distributed through the non-European part of the empire.  Obviously, census data is not 100% accurate, but you can see why it is impossible for Jerusalem to have had 20+ thousand Jews in the 1880-90s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Monte what is this again, an answer to my request to take in account the population of Jews in Galilee?
> 
> You look everywhere but not where Palestine was:
> The Acre, Nablus and Damascus districts where the Jews of Sefad, Tiberias, Acre and Haifa lived. And of course Jerusalem district which I'm still waiting to see unaltered.
> 
> C'mon You claim You have access to this book, why all the hard work to cut and link little pcitures while with the Balkan and Roman data You did it the easy way and simply copied all the table fully?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The places you mention are in the Kudus Special Region, which includes Jerusalem. There are no separate tables of the Kudus Special Region, it is a tiny entity not like the Balkans, Rumelia etc.
Click to expand...


The north border of the Jerusalem district is the river Auja- today Tel Aviv area. It's also the southern border of Damascus district which includes the Galilee sea, Tiberias and Sefad...then of course the Acre district.

Where do You see Galilee included in the map of Mastariffate Jerusalem?


----------



## rylah

REALLY *Montelatici* I've provided with more than 10 sources that are referred to in other studies. and gave You the EXACT data. Then You proceeded claiming to have the only credible source, cutting it in bits and pieces...

It really makes one wonder- why all the manipulation and omitting?
I'm not sure the next presentation won't be the work of the same technique,
a Paintbrush or a Photoshop editor.

However I'l try my best to give You the benefit of the doubt. Let's see what You'll come up with


----------



## montelatici

I provided the frigging British census which alone debunks all the Zionist bullshit historians. Is that not enough?  Do you have an upload location, I'll send you the whole damn Ottoman census data.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> I provided the frigging British census which alone debunks all the Zionist bullshit historians. Is that not enough?  Do you have an upload location, I'll send you the whole damn Ottoman census data.


Edit:
Did You really? And how does the British census help to figure the population of Jews before the first Zionist immigration?
Funny how recognized professors and PLO advisors turn into "zionist bullshit historians" 

How about a link in a private conversation, here on USMB?
Upload it, share a link...do whatever is convenient.
However best place would be here in this thread- *the whole Ottoman census.

*


----------



## montelatici

There are no free links, you have to pay for it.  It is many MBs of data. It could not be uploaded to the thread. I already sent a link, here is another link from Cambridge.  Give it your best shot.


Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82–1893 | International Journal of Middle East Studies | Cambridge Core


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most scholars you are referencing did not have access to the source Ottoman census data nor could they understand it.  The first accurate translation and compilation of the Ottoman censuses  was performed in 1985, what I am providing information from.  Plus, something published by Hebrew University must be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> As promised, here are the top level categories.  As you can discern the categories of the source material are far different from the ones of the "scholars" who did not know how to read the source census material.  That alone should tell how reliable that information is.
> 
> View attachment 105964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monte this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is *clearly not* from these 2 pages:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I asked You was to show the FULL table, including the headlines on BOTH pages and the exact years. But if we look at the two page that You've attached (above), it's clear that the left and the right pages and lines do not correspond with the lines on the left and right pages below.
> 
> Where are the headline and years I've asked You initially?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The lines don't match because it is manually scanned document and the table extends over two pages of a book that with difficulty .  However I will try to do better tomorrow.  However, the consolidated tables prove the point anyway.
Click to expand...







 BULLSHIT    I did manual scanning 20 years ago with a hand held device, followed the instructions and had a good copy all in line


----------



## Phoenall

rylah said:


> REALLY *Montelatici* I've provided with more than 10 sources that are referred to in other studies. and gave You the EXACT data. Then You proceeded claiming to have the only credible source, cutting it in bits and pieces...
> 
> It really makes one wonder- why all the manipulation and omitting?
> I'm not sure the next presentation won't be the work of the same technique,
> a Paintbrush or a Photoshop editor.
> 
> However I'l try my best to give You the benefit of the doubt. Let's see what You'll come up with










 You will soon realise that monte is the only world authority on every subject, and if he says the author of a work is not telling the truth then his word stands


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> I provided the frigging British census which alone debunks all the Zionist bullshit historians. Is that not enough?  Do you have an upload location, I'll send you the whole damn Ottoman census data.









 So now islamonazi scholars are Zionist bullshit historians,   COS YOU SAY SO


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> There are no free links, you have to pay for it.  It is many MBs of data. It could not be uploaded to the thread. I already sent a link, here is another link from Cambridge.  Give it your best shot.
> 
> 
> Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82–1893 | International Journal of Middle East Studies | Cambridge Core



I guess that's Your problem then.

Montelatici, for one claiming to be a professor You really dazzle me when reviewing the way You present the data here, all along the conversation.

I've presented You more than enough examples from expert scientists, historians, and govt officials all cross referred by other scholars . I even included a PLO advisor! And all of them are talking about THOUSANDS of PALESTINIAN JEWS.

ALL my sources are open for everyone to check:

post #3570 - Population of Jerusalem as reported by Cesar Famin, a French diplomat in 1853 (p.49)

post #3571 - Jerusalem And It's Environs -
The population of Jerusalem 1806-1945

post #3579 

post #3580 -  Dr. Mutaz M. Qafisheh (PLO advisor)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's no reason to pay when there's enough open data.
If Your statement was true You could've prove it from a number of other available sources.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?



There was one statement I could partially agree with:

3:14-3:17:
"We're all happy. There might be Jews and Muslims who are happy because the saints are from our land"

The rest...usual slogans and logical inconsistencies.
How come there's all this occupation but the Muslim population more than doubled while the Christians in Gaza and PA are vanishing?

You know what they say about Saturday and Sunday...there's already not a singe Jewish soul in Gaza.

How many Palestinian Christians live in Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was one statement I could partially agree with:
> 
> 3:14-3:17:
> "We're all happy. There might be Jews and Muslims who are happy because the saints are from our land"
> 
> The rest...usual slogans and logical inconsistencies.
> How come there's all this occupation but the Muslim population more than doubled while the Christians in Gaza and PA are vanishing?
> 
> You know what they say about Saturday and Sunday...there's already not a singe Jewish soul in Gaza.
> 
> How many Palestinian Christians live in Israel?
Click to expand...

How many Palestinian Christians in Israel have the same land they had before 1948?

Why is the Christian population in Israel controlled Jerusalem declining more than in the Palestinian controlled Bethlehem? (Don't forget that a refugee camp was incorporated into Bethlehem reducing the percentage of Christians without reducing their numbers.)

The Christian population is centered around the Jerusalem, Bethlehem area. We constantly hear of settlement expansion in that area but it is never reported how many Christians are evicted to make that expansion possible.

There are several reasons why Christians are more likely to emigrate than Muslims but you wouldn't know anything about that.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanians?


So you post a fake Christian site.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Click to expand...
So you post a fake Christian site.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow, you mean Christians are actually "tolerated" by the fanatic Muslims in Gaza?


----------



## montelatici

The Christians of Palestine and the ones in the Diaspora are the descendants of the original Christians.  Many of their ancestors converted to Islam, but unlike the Jews they are the native people of Palestine.  The Zionist Jews were from Europe and European invaders.


If you are a Christian, your support of the Israeli Jews is helping the Jews to oppress Christians.  Get it?


----------



## montelatici

Even more to the point.


----------



## rylah

So when data manipulation doesn't work, team Palestine is back to square one-
pushing Pallywood propaganda and slogans 

*Do You think supporting Israel helps Jews in Iran, Yemen, Egypt or Lebanon?

What did the Palestinian Muslims and Christians do to Palestinian Jews when they wanted self determination?

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> So when data manipulation doesn't work, team Palestine is back to square one-
> pushing Pallywood propaganda and slogans
> 
> *Do You think supporting Israel helps Jews in Iran, Yemen, Egypt or Lebanon?
> 
> What did the Palestinian Muslims and Christians do to Palestinian Jews when they wanted self determination?
> *


Nothing. The all had the same right to self determination.


----------



## Hollie

More to the point


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a fake Christian site.
Click to expand...








 So now You Tube is a fake Christian site, so you will stop using it for pushing islamonazi propaganda


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


>









 You are only fooling yourself with this islamonazi propaganda, the Christian population of gaza has been reduced to 1% and no Jews in sight


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when data manipulation doesn't work, team Palestine is back to square one-
> pushing Pallywood propaganda and slogans
> 
> *Do You think supporting Israel helps Jews in Iran, Yemen, Egypt or Lebanon?
> 
> What did the Palestinian Muslims and Christians do to Palestinian Jews when they wanted self determination?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. The all had the same right to self determination.
Click to expand...






Bullshit as they declared war on them and then blamed the Jews for it. They concocted BLOOD LIBELS and propaganda LIES around the Jews arrival in palestine and revoked their right to international law working in their favour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> More to the point


Posted by "Muslims Worship Satan!"

Good choice!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when data manipulation doesn't work, team Palestine is back to square one-
> pushing Pallywood propaganda and slogans
> 
> *Do You think supporting Israel helps Jews in Iran, Yemen, Egypt or Lebanon?
> 
> What did the Palestinian Muslims and Christians do to Palestinian Jews when they wanted self determination?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. The all had the same right to self determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit as they declared war on them and then blamed the Jews for it. They concocted BLOOD LIBELS and propaganda LIES around the Jews arrival in palestine and revoked their right to international law working in their favour.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when data manipulation doesn't work, team Palestine is back to square one-
> pushing Pallywood propaganda and slogans
> 
> *Do You think supporting Israel helps Jews in Iran, Yemen, Egypt or Lebanon?
> 
> What did the Palestinian Muslims and Christians do to Palestinian Jews when they wanted self determination?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. The all had the same right to self determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit as they declared war on them and then blamed the Jews for it. They concocted BLOOD LIBELS and propaganda LIES around the Jews arrival in palestine and revoked their right to international law working in their favour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...









 Not paying attention again I see as these have been given over the last 24 hours on this board numerous times. You really do need to start reading the links provided the first time round then you wont show yourself up as often asking for them to be repeated every day.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> The Christians of Palestine and the ones in the Diaspora are the descendants of the original Christians.



Funny how Christian Palestinians in the diaspora are still Christian Palestinians and still descendants of the original Christians, but Jewish "Palestinians" in the diaspora are neither.  

Double standards, much?


----------



## montelatici

The Zionists were Europeans that were descendants of European converts to Judaism.   The Christian Palestinians in Chile, for example, are Christian descendants of Palestinians whose parents, grandparents or great grandparents were born in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Munther Isaac: Palestinian Christian Response to Christian Zionism *

**


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The Zionists were Europeans that were descendants of European converts to Judaism.   The Christian Palestinians in Chile, for example, are Christian descendants of Palestinians whose parents, grandparents or great grandparents were born in Palestine.









As where the Jewish exiles who were stolen by the roman Catholics all those years ago. Once again you twist words to meet with your beliefs and show yiu are prepared to use any lies to twist things to your POV. DOUBLE STANDARDS and rank HYPOCRISY


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Zena Agha *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Akram*

*Why should students come to BU Law to study international human rights law?*

**


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians of Palestine and the ones in the Diaspora are the descendants of the original Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how Christian Palestinians in the diaspora are still Christian Palestinians and still descendants of the original Christians, but Jewish "Palestinians" in the diaspora are neither.
> 
> Double standards, much?
Click to expand...


Europeans, even if they convert to Judaism, are not from Palestine.  Europeans, even if they become Hindus, do not magically change their ethnic origin and can suddenly claim they are from India.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians of Palestine and the ones in the Diaspora are the descendants of the original Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how Christian Palestinians in the diaspora are still Christian Palestinians and still descendants of the original Christians, but Jewish "Palestinians" in the diaspora are neither.
> 
> Double standards, much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans, even if they convert to Judaism, are not from Palestine.  Europeans, even if they become Hindus, do not magically change their ethnic origin and can suddenly claim they are from India.
Click to expand...






 Nor are the ones that converted to Catholicism, yet you seem to think they are . Remember your link that showed every Christian was wiped out by the arab muslims and so more had to go when it was safe to do so, they invaded and took the lands by force under the banner of theCrusades


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians of Palestine and the ones in the Diaspora are the descendants of the original Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how Christian Palestinians in the diaspora are still Christian Palestinians and still descendants of the original Christians, but Jewish "Palestinians" in the diaspora are neither.
> 
> Double standards, much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans, even if they convert to Judaism, are not from Palestine.  Europeans, even if they become Hindus, do not magically change their ethnic origin and can suddenly claim they are from India.
Click to expand...

Similarly, Christian invaders from Europe to the geographic area of Pal'istan are not _from_ Pal'istan. They do not magically become Pal'istanians from your invented "country of Pal'istan".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

* Amani Al Khatahtbeh*

**


----------



## Art__Allm

Shusha said:


> Funny how Christian Palestinians in the diaspora are still Christian Palestinians and still descendants of the original Christians, but Jewish "Palestinians" in the diaspora are neither.
> 
> Double standards, much?



The Christian Palestinians can prove that they are Palestinians, they still have the keys from their Palestinian houses they were expelled from.

What do you mean with Jewish Palestinians?
The descendants of Khazars?
Can they prove that their ancestors lived in Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Huwaida Arraf*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ramzy Baroud*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinans?

*Diana Buttu*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## Hollie

The energy of the Arab Moslem Death Cilt


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Archbishop Elias Chacour*

A Palestinian Christian Working for Peace in Israel


----------



## Hollie

Arab Moslem terrorists working the gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists sleeping with the fishes.


----------



## Phoenall

Art__Allm said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how Christian Palestinians in the diaspora are still Christian Palestinians and still descendants of the original Christians, but Jewish "Palestinians" in the diaspora are neither.
> 
> Double standards, much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christian Palestinians can prove that they are Palestinians, they still have the keys from their Palestinian houses they were expelled from.
> 
> What do you mean with Jewish Palestinians?
> The descendants of Khazars?
> Can they prove that their ancestors lived in Palestine?
Click to expand...








 As in keys that were bought from the market that never fitted any locks.
 Proven to be a fallacy as no mention of these mysterious people until the mid 20C
 Yes they have with DNA studies


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Huwaida Arraf*
> 
> **









 A legal blockade that the terrorists tried to breach, making their intentions known beforehand. Thus making this nothing but a pack of lies


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dana Dajani*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Fatin Jarara*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ghada karmi *

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab Moslem Death Cultists - from the cradle to the grave.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek*


----------



## Hollie

Lamis Deek - screeching and whining


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Leanne Mohamad


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


This is too funny. There is a shootout and the people across the street are standing around watching. You can't get more fake than that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is too funny. There is a shootout and the people across the street are standing around watching. You can't get more fake than that.
Click to expand...


The Pali crowd will likely frisk the dead for watches, rings and wallets. 

Great folks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ahed Tamimi*

Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Fatin Jarara*
> 
> **







All you got, the usual unproven looney left talking points


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Fatin Jarara*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you got, the usual unproven looney left talking points
Click to expand...

All you got is...well...nothing.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*










 Just your usual pallywood productions talking points. How does your constant cut and paste answer the questions posed ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*








 Was he found guilty of the crimes ?    And how does this answer the questions posed ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> Leanne Mohamad








 Where is the mention of the Jews in your video, the original palestinians ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier









 Not very arab looking is she, I would say more likely a convert from Europe


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just your usual pallywood productions talking points. How does your constant cut and paste answer the questions posed ?
Click to expand...

Still got nothing, huh?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Fatin Jarara*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you got, the usual unproven looney left talking points
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All you got is...well...nothing.
Click to expand...






 Apart from the truth and reality


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just your usual pallywood productions talking points. How does your constant cut and paste answer the questions posed ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing, huh?
Click to expand...







 I have the truth, which is more than you ever will have


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not very arab looking is she, I would say more likely a convert from Europe
Click to expand...

Palestine was a multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious place until the Zionists came to pig the place for themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just your usual pallywood productions talking points. How does your constant cut and paste answer the questions posed ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the truth, which is more than you ever will have
Click to expand...

You are a hoot!


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not very arab looking is she, I would say more likely a convert from Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was a multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious place until the Zionists came to pig the place for themselves.
Click to expand...







 But ruled by muslims, who enforced sharia laws against the wishes of the Ottomans. The non muslims had no rights and no hope until the LoN gave them the chance to declare a homeland, and then the arab muslims saw they would lose their jizya taxes and no longer be able to enforce the dhimmi laws and Pact of Umar


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just your usual pallywood productions talking points. How does your constant cut and paste answer the questions posed ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the truth, which is more than you ever will have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot!
Click to expand...







 And I still have the truth, which you will never have


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not very arab looking is she, I would say more likely a convert from Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was a multi-ethnic, multi-racial and multi-religious place until the Zionists came to pig the place for themselves.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid this is another of your "episodes". Your invented, happy-fun, wondrous "country of Pal'istan" was the subject of many invasions by various entities, all of which established their own socio-political norms at the expense of the formers. 

Let's understand that Arab islamo-history is undeniable in its intolerance of competing religions and ethnicities. At no time in Islamist history have the infidels been treated with anything but disgust and scorn.

You're silly invention of some magical Kingdom of Oz your invented "Palistan" is a hoot.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier



Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
Click to expand...

The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
Click to expand...


Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)

The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.  

You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.


Every video should have some humor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
Click to expand...

*Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **



Well, okay.  I wasn't going to embarrass you by displaying all the violence (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting) committed by the Palestinian family on the LEO in the full length video.  But now that you have proven my point -- do you have one?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)


Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
Click to expand...


How silly. That Pallywood Production Studios Inc., staged event may appeal to you, how shall we say... Shirley Temper groupies, but you shouldn't think anyone else would take it seriously.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
Click to expand...


Thank you for admitting that violence was committed by the Palestinians.  You have NO idea how hard it is to actually get that kind of admission.  Now, you move on to trying to justify that violence.  Fine. 

Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?


Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
Click to expand...


His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it was just a coincidence that Shirley Temper, a gaggle of "protestors" and a cameraman just happened to be there to film the infomercial.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
Click to expand...

The only violence was from the Israeli side.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
Click to expand...


What was your job when you were illegally patrolling Vietnam?  Would you have liked to be attacked like that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was your job when you were illegally patrolling Vietnam?  Would you have liked to be attacked like that?
Click to expand...

I was a school teacher in Vietnam.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
Click to expand...

"..... because Pal'istanians are representatives of the Religion of Peace"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "..... because Pal'istanians are representatives of the Religion of Peace"
Click to expand...

Israel always attacks peaceful protestors. That is what starts the violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "..... because Pal'istanians are representatives of the Religion of Peace"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always attacks peaceful protestors. That is what starts the violence.
Click to expand...


Yes, yes. _I blame the Zionists_™

It's always the same script.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,

I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.


* *
*Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​


P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
•  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
•  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:

§  Public Security,
§  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
§  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
§  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
§  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.

Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
•  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:

§  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.

§  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
Click to expand...


Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.  You did forget to post the video which shows the protests and the people throwing rocks, but there is that as well.  Quit waffling.  You got two choices:  

1.  That there was no violence by the Palestinians.  (You'd seriously be stupid to go for this one.  There is the video.  Which you posted.  It shows it clearly.)

2.  That the Palestinian violence is justified.  

Pick one.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "..... because Pal'istanians are representatives of the Religion of Peace"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always attacks peaceful protestors. That is what starts the violence.
Click to expand...


So, to be clear here, throwing rocks at LEOs and civilians is "peaceful protest" and should not be responded to with any police action?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...

They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.


There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.

Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
Click to expand...


Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.  

According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.
> 
> According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.
Click to expand...

The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
Click to expand...








 Then you are turning of your monitor when the palestinians are being violent, or being highly selective again


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.
> 
> 
> 
> Every video should have some humor.
Click to expand...









 Nothing as funny as team palestine complaining about being hurt when the palestinians get their own medicine and then whinge about the Jews responce to the violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.
> 
> 
> 
> Every video should have some humor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing as funny as team palestine complaining about being hurt when the palestinians get their own medicine and then whinge about the Jews responce to the violence.
Click to expand...

Israeli settler colonialism is the initial violence. It is the Palestinians who respond.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.
> 
> According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.
Click to expand...








 And your evidence of this is eiher highly edited video's or the word of palestinian terrorists. No actual true evidence of the Jews instigating any violence at all. In most cases it is the responce to arab muslim terrorist attacks, illegal weapons and war crimes by the IDF


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.
> 
> 
> 
> Every video should have some humor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing as funny as team palestine complaining about being hurt when the palestinians get their own medicine and then whinge about the Jews responce to the violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli settler colonialism is the initial violence. It is the Palestinians who respond.
Click to expand...







 Your get out of jail card that has been shown to be false many times over. There was no proven settler colonialism ever taking place, it is a construct of the islamonazi's and the neo marxists to justify the ongoing violence. No mention of it until 2014, proving that it is just the latest ploy.



 Remember the arab muslims have no legal or moral right to the lands being illegal immigrants


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.
> 
> According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your evidence of this is eiher highly edited video's or the word of palestinian terrorists. No actual true evidence of the Jews instigating any violence at all. In most cases it is the responce to arab muslim terrorist attacks, illegal weapons and war crimes by the IDF
Click to expand...

Settler colonialism is violence. People do not get colonized voluntarily.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **
Click to expand...






You get your female friends to do that to a cop in America and see what happens to them. And the girl does not look very arab, more like some European sex slave or an illegal immigrant from Europe.  So who are the colonists now in view of your video's showing European terrorists


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
Click to expand...







 YES unless you want to deny that the palestinian goontards do not deserve all they get when they attack Israeli children


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES unless you want to deny that the palestinian goontards do not deserve all they get when they attack Israeli children
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Interview with Palestinian bold girl who escaped her brother from Israeli soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get your female friends to do that to a cop in America and see what happens to them. And the girl does not look very arab, more like some European sex slave or an illegal immigrant from Europe.  So who are the colonists now in view of your video's showing European terrorists
Click to expand...

That depends on the circumstance. One of the most noticeable was the man who killed a federal agent at Ruby Ridge. The jury acquitted him of murder on the grounds that it was a case of self defense.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
Click to expand...





 Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders. They gave solemn promises to do so and have reneged on them ever since. They just want it all and if they get it we will see a war in the M.E. that will result in millions of dead civilians and a crisis for Europe


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders.


There is no legal requirement for them to do so.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
Click to expand...








 So no biting, scratching, gouging and other forms of violence took place in the making if this pallywood productions


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.
> 
> According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your evidence of this is eiher highly edited video's or the word of palestinian terrorists. No actual true evidence of the Jews instigating any violence at all. In most cases it is the responce to arab muslim terrorist attacks, illegal weapons and war crimes by the IDF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is violence. People do not get colonized voluntarily.
Click to expand...







 And that is why the Jews respond to the arab muslim settler colonialism. Or are you denying the existence of Jews in the mandate now ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So no biting, scratching, gouging and other forms of violence took place in the making if this pallywood productions
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.

I should have said that the initial violence was from the Israeli side.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES unless you want to deny that the palestinian goontards do not deserve all they get when they attack Israeli children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...







 NO on topic and putting you in your place. If the Jews deserve it then so do the palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.
> 
> According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your evidence of this is eiher highly edited video's or the word of palestinian terrorists. No actual true evidence of the Jews instigating any violence at all. In most cases it is the responce to arab muslim terrorist attacks, illegal weapons and war crimes by the IDF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is violence. People do not get colonized voluntarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why the Jews respond to the arab muslim settler colonialism. Or are you denying the existence of Jews in the mandate now ?
Click to expand...

The Mandate left Palestine in 1948.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get your female friends to do that to a cop in America and see what happens to them. And the girl does not look very arab, more like some European sex slave or an illegal immigrant from Europe.  So who are the colonists now in view of your video's showing European terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That depends on the circumstance. One of the most noticeable was the man who killed a federal agent at Ruby Ridge. The jury acquitted him of murder on the grounds that it was a case of self defense.
Click to expand...








 Of topic deflection as this is not about ruby ridge


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES unless you want to deny that the palestinian goontards do not deserve all they get when they attack Israeli children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO on topic and putting you in your place. If the Jews deserve it then so do the palestinians
Click to expand...

The Palestinians do not attack children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get your female friends to do that to a cop in America and see what happens to them. And the girl does not look very arab, more like some European sex slave or an illegal immigrant from Europe.  So who are the colonists now in view of your video's showing European terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That depends on the circumstance. One of the most noticeable was the man who killed a federal agent at Ruby Ridge. The jury acquitted him of murder on the grounds that it was a case of self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of topic deflection as this is not about ruby ridge
Click to expand...

It was just an example of the LEO assholes thinking they are above the law. They are not.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for them to do so.
Click to expand...








 Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.


 YOU LOSE AGAIN


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for them to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
Click to expand...

The initial declaration of independence or the replays.

BTW, where did they say that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when data manipulation doesn't work, team Palestine is back to square one-
> pushing Pallywood propaganda and slogans
> 
> *Do You think supporting Israel helps Jews in Iran, Yemen, Egypt or Lebanon?
> 
> What did the Palestinian Muslims and Christians do to Palestinian Jews when they wanted self determination?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. The all had the same right to self determination.
Click to expand...


There's plenty of historical evidence to show that Jewish communities in Palestine before Zionist immigration were targeted and expelled in their thousands, or murdered each time there was civil unrest or change of power.

Anyone can look up the destruction of Sefad, Tiberias and the massacres of Hebron and Jerusalem. Or the expulsion of 1500 wealthy Jews from Palestine to Cyprus. 

All this was before Jews decided to use their right the right to their self determination AS YOU CLAIM THEY HAD IN PALESTINE.


----------



## rylah

Rabbi Israel Najara (1555 Sefad - 1625 Gaza) - a revolutionary poet, Torah scholar, the rabbi of Gaza and of course a Palestinian Jew.

This is from "Zemirot Israel"- Songs of Israel:


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So no biting, scratching, gouging and other forms of violence took place in the making if this pallywood productions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I stand corrected.
> 
> I should have said that the initial violence was from the Israeli side.
Click to expand...








 Want to go back to the birth of the violence, which happens to be shortly after the birth of islam. When mo'mad declared open war on the Jews and Christians, and proclaimed that god had told him " KILL THE JEWS" and  " KILL THE UNBELIEVERS "


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, you are back to saying that the Palestinians did, in fact, commit violence, but that it is justified.  Jeez -- make up your mind already.
> 
> According to you, Team Palestine and half the Palestinians the mere presence of a Jew in the vicinity is an initiation of violence.
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your evidence of this is eiher highly edited video's or the word of palestinian terrorists. No actual true evidence of the Jews instigating any violence at all. In most cases it is the responce to arab muslim terrorist attacks, illegal weapons and war crimes by the IDF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is violence. People do not get colonized voluntarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why the Jews respond to the arab muslim settler colonialism. Or are you denying the existence of Jews in the mandate now ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate left Palestine in 1948.
Click to expand...








 WRONG AGAIN

 Showing youe stupidity now as you have been tole the mandate is still in force, it was the mandatory that left in 1948.


 BRITAIN WAS NOT THE MANDATE, BRITAIN ENFORCED THE MANDATE.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> (punching, hitting, scraping, clawing, biting)
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that goontard did not deserve any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES unless you want to deny that the palestinian goontards do not deserve all they get when they attack Israeli children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO on topic and putting you in your place. If the Jews deserve it then so do the palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not attack children.
Click to expand...







 They admit doing so and see them as valid targets for their terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get your female friends to do that to a cop in America and see what happens to them. And the girl does not look very arab, more like some European sex slave or an illegal immigrant from Europe.  So who are the colonists now in view of your video's showing European terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That depends on the circumstance. One of the most noticeable was the man who killed a federal agent at Ruby Ridge. The jury acquitted him of murder on the grounds that it was a case of self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of topic deflection as this is not about ruby ridge
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was just an example of the LEO assholes thinking they are above the law. They are not.
Click to expand...








 Nor are the palestinian terrorists and their supporters, yet you seem to think you are


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was your job when you were illegally patrolling Vietnam?  Would you have liked to be attacked like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was a school teacher in Vietnam.
Click to expand...







 For the communists ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His job is to prevent people from being hurt during violent protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only violence was from the Israeli side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "..... because Pal'istanians are representatives of the Religion of Peace"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always attacks peaceful protestors. That is what starts the violence.
Click to expand...









 Going armed with molotov cocktails and rocks is not the action of a peaceful protestor. And in every nation when a protest is deemed illegal and should be dispersed then the protestors must follow the commands.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper all upset because there are consequences to violent actions and she thinks Palestinians should be immune from consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> The only violence I saw was from those assholes with the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, of course.  Its a heavily edited Palestinian propaganda film.  (Though Ahed biting the soldiers hand is perfectly visible.)
> 
> The context is that her brother was throwing rocks.  The soldier was arresting him.  If you watch the entire, unedited video you will see that the soldier is being attacked by several people who punch him, pull at him and bite him.  At the conclusion of this particular event, the soldier was ordered by his superior to not arrest the boy and to let everyone go.
> 
> You are trying to paint the Palestinian girl as some sort of hero for "rescuing" her brother from a bad man.  That's not the truth.  That's just silly propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Palestinian women, teenage girl bite, fight off IDF soldier trying to arrest 12-yo boy *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get your female friends to do that to a cop in America and see what happens to them. And the girl does not look very arab, more like some European sex slave or an illegal immigrant from Europe.  So who are the colonists now in view of your video's showing European terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That depends on the circumstance. One of the most noticeable was the man who killed a federal agent at Ruby Ridge. The jury acquitted him of murder on the grounds that it was a case of self defense.
Click to expand...


You do realize that comparing US law with its myriad establishments of due process, discovery, presumption of innocence before guilt, trial by jury, etc., is a bit different than the Islamist terrorist method of jurisprudence where the accused and the guilty (same parties) are dragged into the street and have their brains blown out by islamo-goons. 

You do realize your attempt at comparison is a laughable joke, right?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
Click to expand...







Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on. You posted the video SHOWING the Palestinian violence.
> 
> 
> 
> There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos on youtube of clashes during protests.
> 
> Can you post one where Israel did not initiate the violence?
Click to expand...








 Any that you want as they all show the responses to islamonazi violence. Something that you have not yet grasped. Fire a rocket at Israeli children watch what the responce will be


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
Click to expand...

Passage and link granting land.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for them to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The initial declaration of independence or the replays.
> 
> BTW, where did they say that?
Click to expand...








 The only one accepted by the world  of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an LEO, in the course of acting out his duties, deserve to be assaulted by multiple attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
Click to expand...










Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:



PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

_ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

_ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

_ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

_ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for them to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The initial declaration of independence or the replays.
> 
> BTW, where did they say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only one accepted by the world  of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way
Click to expand...

Recognition by other states is not a requirement.

You wouldn't point out those lies, would you?

Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the asshole deserved it. His job is to protect those who are stealing land. Law enforcement he is not.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
Click to expand...

OK, those are Palestine's international borders.

Where is the land transfer to the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then the palestinians deserve all they get by refusing to start talks on peace and mutual borders.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for them to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The initial declaration of independence or the replays.
> 
> BTW, where did they say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only one accepted by the world  of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognition by other states is not a requirement.
> 
> You wouldn't point out those lies, would you?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...






 But acceptance is, and you should look at the difference between the two words. As you say no one accepts Israel as being sovereign over the O.T.


 So when did the UN accept that the arab muslims showed a small ability to self determination and accepted them as observers ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> 
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
Click to expand...








 Did you miss this part

*Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:*

No mention of palestine the nation or mandate


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss this part
> 
> *Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:*
> 
> No mention of palestine the nation or mandate
Click to expand...

What did they say the Jewish National home was to be?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  Shusha,  et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  LEO's do not normally have within their jurisdiction the responsibility to enforce international law, created outside the legislative authority of their nation.
> 
> 
> *View attachment 106859 *
> *Political crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_crime​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would think that you would understand that the Israeli IDF, Border Police and Security Services would, in the thumbnail view, be enforcing the laws:
> •  That cover the Article 43 requirements of the Hague Regulation, punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention;
> ---------------------------------------------------------- or ----------------------------------------------------------
> •  Those directives for operations in compliance with the Police Act of 1971 and additional articles of legislation. In the context of those powers, the Israel Police is responsible for the following areas:
> 
> §  Public Security,
> §  Local and National Law Enforcement Ordinances,
> §  Maintaining Order and Public Safety.
> §  Fighting crime and Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.
> §  Ensuring the smooth flow and safety of traffic and public transportation.​Most of the discussions that we have within this group are concerned with the International Issues that are generally unenforceable without the assumption of extrajudicial authority.
> 
> Just after the close of hostilities for WWII:  Post War international law allowed states to use military force to resolve disputes.  Since the creation of the UN (1945), all member states are required to refrain from the *threat or use* of force against another state.
> •  UN Charter --- Chapter I --- Article 2(4): There are two exceptions to general prohibition on the use of force:
> 
> §  Self-defense in response to an armed attack (Chapter VII - Article 51); _(ie the 1948 Invasion by Arab League --- the 1967 Threat of Military Force by the Arab League, 1973 use of force by the Arab League, --- AND --- numerous cases in which the Arab Palestinians have launched various attacks)_.
> 
> §  Collective security measures authorized by the UN security council.​In cases of National Recognition by legislative authority to annex, in which a state has officially extended its sovereignty and taken responsibility of certain territories _(ie East Jerusalem, Golan Heights)_, the Basic Laws and the Police Act of 1971 come into play.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> 
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
Click to expand...


No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.

Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They defend theft and other crimes. That makes them criminal not law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
Click to expand...

Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.

The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> 
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
Click to expand...


Nice dodge™

So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.

Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
Click to expand...

I offered. You didn't look.

Ignorant by choice. Good plan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I offered. You didn't look.
> 
> Ignorant by choice. Good plan.
Click to expand...

That's quite the Tinmore shuffle. 

As usual, challenges to your false claims leaves you to evade and backtrack. 

So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders for your invented "country of Pal'istan as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.

Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I offered. You didn't look.
> 
> Ignorant by choice. Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's quite the Tinmore shuffle.
> 
> As usual, challenges to your false claims leaves you to evade and backtrack.
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders for your invented "country of Pal'istan as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
Click to expand...

I already posted the answer.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I offered. You didn't look.
> 
> Ignorant by choice. Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's quite the Tinmore shuffle.
> 
> As usual, challenges to your false claims leaves you to evade and backtrack.
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders for your invented "country of Pal'istan as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted the answer.
Click to expand...

Never saw any mention of International Borders for your invented "country of Pal'istan as you claimed. Where is that again?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> 
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss this part
> 
> *Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:*
> 
> No mention of palestine the nation or mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did they say the Jewish National home was to be?
Click to expand...









 The NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS where all the worlds Jews could go and live in peace and safety.

 Where did they saythe arab muslims could go that did not want to be ruled by the Jews ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only in your fantasy world as international treaty says the land is Jewish. Unless you have an international treaty that says differently ?
> 
> 
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
Click to expand...








 BULLSHIT

 It cleary stated that for the purpose of the mandate it would be called palestine and not the mandate of palestine for ease. You have been told this and been shown the official documents that spell this out endless numbers of times. 

WHY DO YOU IGNORE REALITY SO MUCH


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I offered. You didn't look.
> 
> Ignorant by choice. Good plan.
Click to expand...









 We looked but could not see any nation of palestine, just the mandate of palestine to be called palestine for ease of use


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for them to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The initial declaration of independence or the replays.
> 
> BTW, where did they say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only one accepted by the world  of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognition by other states is not a requirement.
> 
> You wouldn't point out those lies, would you?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But acceptance is, and you should look at the difference between the two words. As you say no one accepts Israel as being sovereign over the O.T.
> 
> 
> So when did the UN accept that the arab muslims showed a small ability to self determination and accepted them as observers ?
Click to expand...

They don't need to show anybody any ability to self determination.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
> 
> 
> 
> The initial declaration of independence or the replays.
> 
> BTW, where did they say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only one accepted by the world  of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognition by other states is not a requirement.
> 
> You wouldn't point out those lies, would you?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But acceptance is, and you should look at the difference between the two words. As you say no one accepts Israel as being sovereign over the O.T.
> 
> 
> So when did the UN accept that the arab muslims showed a small ability to self determination and accepted them as observers ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't need to show anybody any ability to self determination.
Click to expand...


We can agree on that. Their failures are clear demonstration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Passage and link granting land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLSHIT
> 
> It cleary stated that for the purpose of the mandate it would be called palestine and not the mandate of palestine for ease. You have been told this and been shown the official documents that spell this out endless numbers of times.
> 
> WHY DO YOU IGNORE REALITY SO MUCH
Click to expand...

You could say the same thing about all of the new states in the region.

The Mandates never claimed title and rights to the territories. It was not theirs to give away and they did not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I offered. You didn't look.
> 
> Ignorant by choice. Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We looked but could not see any nation of palestine, just the mandate of palestine to be called palestine for ease of use
Click to expand...

The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Where did they saythe arab muslims could go that did not want to be ruled by the Jews ?


Good question. What is the answer?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The IDF goes someplace to attack people then whine about people throwing rocks at them.



Do you have evidence of the IDF attacking anyone in this instance prior to the rock throwing?  If so, present it.  

Otherwise you are just confirming that the mere presence of a Jew (gasp!  the horror!) is reason enough to try to harm or kill a Jew.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians do not attack children.



Are you kidding me?  You can't actually believe this, can you?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It was just an example of the LEO assholes thinking they are above the law. They are not.



How so?  The LEO was arresting someone who was throwing rocks (a crime for obvious reasons).  How is an LEO arresting someone "above the law"?  They are enforcing the law.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.



Jews were "Palestinians".  Why would land need to be transferred to people who already hold the rights to sovereignty?


----------



## RoccoR

Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't get entangled in this.



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were "Palestinians".  Why would land need to be transferred to people who already hold the rights to sovereignty?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Our friend P F Tinmore cannot demonstrate of show where there is any requirement for a "transfer" in the case of self-determination, or acquisition of territory through an act of defense.

One might ask the question, where is the (imaginary) "transfer" of territory to which the Palestinians lay claim.

As long as the Israelis can defend themselves, the spirit of the Convention signed at Montevideo applies_._
​
*ARTICLE 6 
CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

*ARTICLE 7
CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.

*ARTICLE 8
CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.
​ 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> One might ask the question, where is the (imaginary) "transfer" of territory to which the Palestinians lay claim.


There is no need to "transfer" territory to the native population. Their right to that territory is inherent. If foreigners want any land it must be transferred to them. This requires a treaty or other agreement to transfer that land. In that process specific land defined by borders is transferred.

Therefor Israel would have specific borders not just non border armistice lines.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> One might ask the question, where is the (imaginary) "transfer" of territory to which the Palestinians lay claim.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no need to "transfer" territory to the native population. Their right to that territory is inherent. If foreigners want any land it must be transferred to them. This requires a treaty or other agreement to transfer that land. In that process specific land defined by borders is transferred.
> 
> Therefor Israel would have specific borders not just non border armistice lines.
Click to expand...


Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.  And the fact that North and South Korea are separated by armistice lines does not mean they aren't nations.  In fact, Israel is a member of the U.N.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.


Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.

Interesting legal concept.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.



P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.

•  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*. 

•  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.

The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).

2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:

•  Palestine Order in Council: 

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:

Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are ducking my post.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my post.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I didn't "duck" anything.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I didn't "duck" anything.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no need to "transfer" territory to the native population. Their right to that territory is inherent.


Yes.  Exactly.  And part of holding sovereignty is, of course, controlling immigration.



> If foreigners want any land it must be transferred to them. This requires a treaty or other agreement to transfer that land. In that process specific land defined by borders is transferred.



Link?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,

Oh come on...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I didn't "duck" anything.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You said: 

•  Israel claims borders...
A:  I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​
•  Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...
A:  I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​
•  Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...
A:  I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​
I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this.  I'll have to be more careful in future.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,
> 
> Oh come on...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I didn't "duck" anything.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You said:
> •  Israel claims borders...
> A:  I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​•  Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...
> A:  I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​•  Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...
> A:  I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​
> I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this.  I'll have to be more careful in future.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

From your link:
The following matters are agreed between the parties:

(fl)The full exercise of Egyptian sovereignty up to the internationally recognized border between Egypt and mandated Palestine;​
First let me say that the 1949 UN Armistice Agreement called that border the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They also called the land on the Palestinians side of that border Palestine.

Why would they use the term mandated Palestine? What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine? Why did it still have international borders?

If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.
> 
> 
> YOU LOSE AGAIN
> 
> 
> 
> The initial declaration of independence or the replays.
> 
> BTW, where did they say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only one accepted by the world  of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Recognition by other states is not a requirement.
> 
> You wouldn't point out those lies, would you?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But acceptance is, and you should look at the difference between the two words. As you say no one accepts Israel as being sovereign over the O.T.
> 
> 
> So when did the UN accept that the arab muslims showed a small ability to self determination and accepted them as observers ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't need to show anybody any ability to self determination.
Click to expand...







 They do if they want to be seen as a nation and being able to live on their own. It is a pre-requisite for the entry into the UN as a full member. Until then they are just another puppet state for the islamonazi terrorists


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE
> 
> 
> INTRODUCTORY.
> 
> 
> POSITION, ETC.
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
> 
> On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
> 
> _ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
> 
> _ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
> 
> _ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
> 
> _ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, those are Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Where is the land transfer to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLSHIT
> 
> It cleary stated that for the purpose of the mandate it would be called palestine and not the mandate of palestine for ease. You have been told this and been shown the official documents that spell this out endless numbers of times.
> 
> WHY DO YOU IGNORE REALITY SO MUCH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could say the same thing about all of the new states in the region.
> 
> The Mandates never claimed title and rights to the territories. It was not theirs to give away and they did not.
Click to expand...









 You mean the mandatories, as the mandates were the legal aspects of being a state. The mandates were run by the LoN and not by Britain, France or Russia who where the mandatories who administered the states for the LoN until they could show self determination.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.
> 
> The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge™
> 
> So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.
> 
> Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I offered. You didn't look.
> 
> Ignorant by choice. Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We looked but could not see any nation of palestine, just the mandate of palestine to be called palestine for ease of use
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration.
Click to expand...








 It was both if you read the various treaties. But this confuses you so much that you need to go and lie down in a darkened room until the fit passes


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did they saythe arab muslims could go that did not want to be ruled by the Jews ?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. What is the answer?
Click to expand...









 You gave the link that stated it, and you did not even know it at the time. They were given trans Jordan as the arab portion of palestine. All in the LoN treaties that have been posted on here an endless number of times to satisfy an imbecile who repeatedly asks for the same links.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> Oh come on...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I didn't "duck" anything.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You said:
> •  Israel claims borders...
> A:  I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​•  Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...
> A:  I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​•  Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...
> A:  I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​
> I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this.  I'll have to be more careful in future.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> The following matters are agreed between the parties:
> 
> (fl)The full exercise of Egyptian sovereignty up to the internationally recognized border between Egypt and mandated Palestine;​
> First let me say that the 1949 UN Armistice Agreement called that border the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They also called the land on the Palestinians side of that border Palestine.
> 
> Why would they use the term mandated Palestine? What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine? Why did it still have international borders?
> 
> If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?
Click to expand...









 Even when you cut and paste yourself you miss the word mandated or mandate. Showing that you are not interested in the truth one iota.
 The mandate never left, it was the mandatory that left. Learn the difference


 The Mandate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate


 The Mandatory

The UK, Britain, Great Britain, The British Isles, England - what's the difference?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> One might ask the question, where is the (imaginary) "transfer" of territory to which the Palestinians lay claim.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no need to "transfer" territory to the native population. Their right to that territory is inherent. If foreigners want any land it must be transferred to them. This requires a treaty or other agreement to transfer that land. In that process specific land defined by borders is transferred.
> 
> Therefor Israel would have specific borders not just non border armistice lines.
Click to expand...





So the same applies to the arab muslims that are proven to be illegal immigrants doesnt it. making your claim a two edged sword slicing of the palestinians heads when they try and use it against the Jews. But you forgot about the mandate of palestine being a treaty that delineates and transfers the land to the Jews of the world. 

 So twice in one post you prove yourself to be an imbecile, and yiu claim you were a teacher ? ? ? ? ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
Click to expand...







 But not the nation of palestine which you seem to have a problem understanding how two palestines can exist at the same time in the same place. So no longer an interesting legal concept when you apply logic, we have palestine the proto nation that is taking for ever to stand on its own feet and the area that includes Israel. The treaties were accepted by the UN so that is another nail in your coffin


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my post.
Click to expand...






No you are just not liking the answers you are getting with evidence to back them up. So we will now call it the call of the lesser spotted failed islamonazi supporter


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,
> 
> Oh come on...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
> Volume 2042, 1-35325  *UN Treaty Collection*.
> 
> •  TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement."  Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict.  They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.
> 
> The UN calls Israel, _(wait for it)_ "Israel."  UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).
> 
> 2. Decides to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:
> 
> •  Palestine Order in Council:
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​•  UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:
> 
> Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I didn't "duck" anything.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You said:
> •  Israel claims borders...
> A:  I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​•  Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...
> A:  I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​•  Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...
> A:  I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​
> I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this.  I'll have to be more careful in future.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> The following matters are agreed between the parties:
> 
> (fl)The full exercise of Egyptian sovereignty up to the internationally recognized border between Egypt and mandated Palestine;​
> First let me say that the 1949 UN Armistice Agreement called that border the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They also called the land on the Palestinians side of that border Palestine.
> 
> Why would they use the term mandated Palestine? What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine? Why did it still have international borders?
> 
> If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?
Click to expand...






 The operative word being MANDATED, showing it does not mean nation or state.

 Because the mandate never left, it was transferred to the UN in 1945. It was the original mandatory that left.

 Because everyone knows what is meant by the borders of mandated palestine, apart from you of course


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, et al,

If you link to the treaty collection page (EG IL_790326_Egypt and Israel) you can read it clearly.  But remember, the date of acquisition is not always the same as the date of treaty ascension.


RoccoR said:


> • TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
> No. 17813 *United Nations — Treaty Series* •​





P F Tinmore said:


> What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

The date of "acquisition" _(of which there are several different means)_ is essentially when sovereignty is established and protected under the Montevideo Convention.  International recognition is not required; wherein the "political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states."

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination.  And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

In 1948, Egypt was one of the Arab League States that crossed the line of departure and entered the former Mandate of Palestine and Israel.  At the time of the Armistice, Egypt occupied and held a Military Governorship over the Gaza Strip.  It was a much smaller territory that was once designated as an allocation for an Arab State _(reject territory by the Arab Palestinian)_.  In 1967, after Egypt demanded the removal of the UN Emergency Force acting as the buffer between Egypt and Israel, the Egyptian Forces staged on the Israeli Border were made combat ineffective (Six Day War) and the Egyptian Military Contingent in the Gaza Strip were forced to withdraw.  The Egyptian Third Army attempted to retake the Gaza Strip in 1973 (The Yom Kipper Sneak Attack).  The Third Army was eventually encircled and cut-off by Israeli Forces.  In 1979, Egypt and Israel concluded a Peace Treaty which dissolved and replaced the 1949 Armistice Agreement.

Article II. The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, 1 without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
Here, the phrase "Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine" = "Egypt and Israel"...  But it also shows that the Mandated Territory is "former" --- as in --- no longer there.  There was, once -- a place identified as the "Mandated Territory;" but, no longer.

Make no mistake!  Whether or not Egypt recognized the State of Israel prior to the 1979 treaty _(part and parcel of the political stance of the __Khartoum Resolution)_, makes no difference.  Israel existed independently of Egyptian or Arab Palestinian recognition.



P F Tinmore said:


> Why did it still have international borders?


*(COMMENT)*

The former Yugoslavia is now partitioned into six independent states.  Each of those states, as it happens, shares a segment of its border with the "former Yugoslavia."  The State and Borders of Yugoslavia are long gone.  But the former Yugoslavia will be there forever.

The artifical boundaries for the territory under the Mandate for Palestine, as determined by the Allied Powers, are also indelibly printed into the annals of history.  Yet the official territory under the Mandate has passed on to form something newer; including Israel.




P F Tinmore said:


> If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?


*(COMMENT)*

Well, because they chose to say it in the English form of:  "permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel;" or, "Frontière Internationale."



P F Tinmore said:


> Why would they use the term mandated Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

Well, this has to do with the fact that the pre-War "Palestine" was not a formal territorial entity and political subdivision.  It was a territory that stretched across half of the Vilayet of Beirut, the Sanjuk of Jerusalem, Maan, Hauran, and Damascus.

The "mandated" adjective refers directly to the Title definition outlined in the Palestine Order in Council; meaning "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.


I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh, yes I did.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
Click to expand...








 Whar you mean is you want the treaty to be wrong as it does not meet with your definition that your read into it.


No it was answered in full, just not with the one you wanted


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.

Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]

http://www.exploringgeopolitics.org...court_justice_montevideo_genocide_convention/​
Also

*ARTICLE 4*

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​
And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.

So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?

How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is historically wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.
> 
> Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.
> 
> The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]
> 
> Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​
> Also
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​
> And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.
> 
> So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?
> 
> How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?
Click to expand...

*(HISTORICAL RECORD)*

REPORT

*BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE*
*OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN **FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924*
The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.

The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.

*(COMMENT)*

There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations.  I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine.  That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.

Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination.  No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state.  They declared it and they defended it (more than once).  

It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.

BUT once more.  Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.
> 
> Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.
> 
> The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]
> 
> Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​
> Also
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​
> And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.
> 
> So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?
> 
> How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?
Click to expand...









 Remember the criteria you laid out on the table in regards to international treaty. Then where is the international treaty naming palestine as a nation ?

Isreal gets recognition through the UN and the LoN, palestine being nothing more than an are has nothing


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is historically wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.
> 
> Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.
> 
> The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]
> 
> Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​
> Also
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​
> And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.
> 
> So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?
> 
> How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(HISTORICAL RECORD)*
> 
> REPORT
> 
> *BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE*
> *OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN **FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924*
> The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.
> 
> The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations.  I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine.  That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.
> 
> Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination.  No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state.  They declared it and they defended it (more than once).
> 
> It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.
> 
> BUT once more.  Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The LoN called it a state. The Treaty of Lausanne considered it a state although indirectly with a blanket reference. It was called a state by other legal entities. The US considered it a state. The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements called it Palestine and referenced its international borders.

So, who has the authority to dismantle a state?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is historically wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.
> 
> Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.
> 
> The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]
> 
> Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​
> Also
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​
> And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.
> 
> So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?
> 
> How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(HISTORICAL RECORD)*
> 
> REPORT
> 
> *BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE*
> *OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN **FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924*
> The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.
> 
> The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations.  I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine.  That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.
> 
> Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination.  No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state.  They declared it and they defended it (more than once).
> 
> It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.
> 
> BUT once more.  Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The LoN called it a state. The Treaty of Lausanne considered it a state although indirectly with a blanket reference. It was called a state by other legal entities. The US considered it a state. The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements called it Palestine and referenced its international borders.
> 
> So, who has the authority to dismantle a state?
Click to expand...

There was never a state to dismantle. It is you who has invented a "state of Pal'istan" where none has ever existed.  I understand you're desperate to rewrite history and invent your own interpretations, but have you considered that your invented "country of Pal'istan" exists, as you have identified, by mere "indirect reference"?

I have land for sale in the "country of the Bible Belt". Make me an offer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the *international status of Palestine* as a territory detached from Turkey and *administered* under a Mandate* entrusted *to His Majesty's Government.


There is nothing here or anywhere else in your post that says that Palestine was not a state.

I posted things that said it was.


----------



## montelatici

The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.



Yet another desperate attempt at rewriting history. 

"Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey."

Did you notice the terms Turkeys Arab territories [lets understand _former_ territories].

Did you notice the term Class A mandates? You should have noticed that. It was in your cut and paste.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Dr. Manal Fakhoury*

**


----------



## Hollie

IDF on responsibility of Islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> IDF on responsibility of Islamic terrorists


Thank you. Another Israeli crime. A police station is a civilian infrastructure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is historically wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are incorrect here.
> 
> BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.
> 
> Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.
> 
> The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]
> 
> Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​
> Also
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States​
> And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.
> 
> So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?
> 
> How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(HISTORICAL RECORD)*
> 
> REPORT
> 
> *BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE*
> *OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN **FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924*
> The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.
> 
> The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations.  I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine.  That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.
> 
> Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination.  No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state.  They declared it and they defended it (more than once).
> 
> It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.
> 
> BUT once more.  Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The LoN called it a state. The Treaty of Lausanne considered it a state although indirectly with a blanket reference. It was called a state by other legal entities. The US considered it a state. The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements called it Palestine and referenced its international borders.
> 
> So, who has the authority to dismantle a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was never a state to dismantle. It is you who has invented a "state of Pal'istan" where none has ever existed.  I understand you're desperate to rewrite history and invent your own interpretations, but have you considered that your invented "country of Pal'istan" exists, as you have identified, by mere "indirect reference"?
> 
> I have land for sale in the "country of the Bible Belt". Make me an offer.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is historically wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes I did.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I answered several questions.  I cited your question and answered it.  You just don't like the answer.  In fact you just copied the answer back.
> 
> Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process _(suggested and recommended by the UN)_, the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.​
> Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948.  Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.
> 
> Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.
> 
> The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]
> 
> Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​
> Also
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States​
> And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.
> 
> So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?
> 
> How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(HISTORICAL RECORD)*
> 
> REPORT
> 
> *BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE*
> *OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN **FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924*
> The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.
> 
> The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations.  I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine.  That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.
> 
> Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination.  No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state.  They declared it and they defended it (more than once).
> 
> It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.
> 
> BUT once more.  Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The LoN called it a state. The Treaty of Lausanne considered it a state although indirectly with a blanket reference. It was called a state by other legal entities. The US considered it a state. The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements called it Palestine and referenced its international borders.
> 
> So, who has the authority to dismantle a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was never a state to dismantle. It is you who has invented a "state of Pal'istan" where none has ever existed.  I understand you're desperate to rewrite history and invent your own interpretations, but have you considered that your invented "country of Pal'istan" exists, as you have identified, by mere "indirect reference"?
> 
> I have land for sale in the "country of the Bible Belt". Make me an offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Palestine never existed as an independent state.  It was the name of a territory or geographic location, like North America.  It was not even mentioned in the Lausanne Treaty, or whatever it's called.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Palestine never existed as an independent state.


It doesn't have to. The people have the same rights with or without a state.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> A police station is a civilian infrastructure.



So interesting that Palestinian police officers and stations are always "civilians" and Israeli police officers are always combatants and fair game for stabbing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A police station is a civilian infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So interesting that Palestinian police officers and stations are always "civilians" and Israeli police officers are always combatants and fair game for stabbing.
Click to expand...

I thought that police had no authority outside of their district.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A police station is a civilian infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So interesting that Palestinian police officers and stations are always "civilians" and Israeli police officers are always combatants and fair game for stabbing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought that police had no authority outside of their district.
Click to expand...


Relevance?  Are police civilians or combatants?  I don't really care so much which you choose, as long as you apply it consistently.  (Though I do think international law is clear).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A police station is a civilian infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So interesting that Palestinian police officers and stations are always "civilians" and Israeli police officers are always combatants and fair game for stabbing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought that police had no authority outside of their district.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Relevance?  Are police civilians or combatants?  I don't really care so much which you choose, as long as you apply it consistently.  (Though I do think international law is clear).
Click to expand...

Police are civilians. However, they have no authority outside their own district. A cop from Cleveland cannot go to Detroit and start arresting people. He is just another guy with a gun.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A police station is a civilian infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So interesting that Palestinian police officers and stations are always "civilians" and Israeli police officers are always combatants and fair game for stabbing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought that police had no authority outside of their district.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Relevance?  Are police civilians or combatants?  I don't really care so much which you choose, as long as you apply it consistently.  (Though I do think international law is clear).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Police are civilians. However, they have no authority outside their own district. A cop from Cleveland cannot go to Detroit and start arresting people. He is just another guy with a gun.
Click to expand...


.... and an Islamic terrorist attacking a civilian with a knife accepts the risk of becoming just another dead islamic terrorist.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, your analogy is almost right.  The credentials of Law Enforcement Officers in the US is a matter of the venue and appointing authority.  Usually, a City Police Officer is held to the city limits with exceptions;  Township Constables within the township, County Sheriffs to the county, State LEO within the state; lastly, federal officers (with exceptions) to federal limits.  And of course, there are Letters of Marque and Extra-judicial authorities.

But your use of this analogy is incorrect in the case.  Totally incorrect.



P F Tinmore said:


> Police are civilians. However, they have no authority outside their own district. A cop from Cleveland cannot go to Detroit and start arresting people. He is just another guy with a gun.


*(AS A MATTER OF INTERST)

Federal Law
*
18 U.S. Code § 926C - Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

I thought you might find this interesting.
*
(COMMENT)*

Inside the sovereign territory, there are protocols, but little in terms of enforcement limitation.  In the case of the Gaza Strip, Israel exercises virtually no general law enforcement duties of authorities, with the exception of the Naval Blockade.  However, the West Bank is an entirely different story.  Under Article 43 of the Hague Regulation, Israel has the responsibility to establish public order and safety.  Additionally, the venue is a mutually agreed upon jurisdiction that is internationally recognized:


•  Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority)

•  Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control)

•  Area C (full Israeli civil and security control)​
In the Middle East, and especially when dealing with the lawless Arab Palestinians, nothing is ever as simple as it appears.  The Arab Palestinians like to have it both ways.  They like to say they are sovereign, yet then complain that Israel does perform the duties of an Occupying Power correctly.  They say that their definition of "Palestine" is everything west of the Jordan River and Dead Sea.  Yet they argue about boundaries of civil war combatants.  They want peace but start civil confrontations.

In Areas "B" and "C" --- the Israeli Government determines what agencies are responsible for security controls; to include the establishment of barriers necessary to protect the interests of the State of Israel.  That would not be a decision made by Arab Palestinians that provide material support or are active partys to Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

What a blowhard Rocco is.   Resistance to occupation is not terrorism.  If that were the case the French resistance and the Italian and Yugoslav partisans would have been prosecuted for terrorism after the war. Just shut your ignorant trap Rocco.  You don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> What a blowhard Rocco is.   Resistance to occupation is not terrorism.  If that were the case the French resistance and the Italian and Yugoslav partisans would have been prosecuted for terrorism after the war. Just shut your ignorant trap Rocco.  You don't know what you are talking about.


It's comically tragic how the Islamic terrorist huggers use slogans and clichés to promote their fascist heroes. The Hamas charter is literally about offensive gee-had as a means to further Islamic doctrine. Well, sorry  but once again, your propaganda is just fraudulent. There is every reason to believe that Islamics who commit the most horrendous mass murders are deeply religious, pious Moslems who derive inspiration for their acts from their religious perspectives.

We rarely read of any of the enablers and promoters of islamic terrorism being brought to justice by the islamist governments which support and shelter the terrorists. Is that because the enablers and promoters of islamic terrorism are enabled and promoted by islamist governments? That's a rhetorical question, BTW.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici, et al,

I find it is important for the Arab Palestinians to attempt to draw an association between true patriots defending their homeland during a time of war --- and --- the Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters as state and non-state actors in violation of Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.



montelatici said:


> What a blowhard Rocco is.   Resistance to occupation is not terrorism.  If that were the case the French resistance and the Italian and Yugoslav partisans would have been prosecuted for terrorism after the war. Just shut your ignorant trap Rocco.  You don't know what you are talking about.


*(COMMENT)*

Anytime one of you pro-Jihadist and Radical Islamic fighters tells me to "shut your ignorant trap," I get that _Detective Columbo_ type feeling that I'm close to something (if not on target).

Oh, just one more thing...  The next time one of you Radical Islamic Jihadist does something patriotic; let me know.  I get confused between kidnapping and murder, bombing and hijacking, attacks on women and children, and other such criminal behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, et al,
> 
> I find it is important for the Arab Palestinians to attempt to draw an association between true patriots defending their homeland during a time of war --- and --- the Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters as state and non-state actors in violation of Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a blowhard Rocco is.   Resistance to occupation is not terrorism.  If that were the case the French resistance and the Italian and Yugoslav partisans would have been prosecuted for terrorism after the war. Just shut your ignorant trap Rocco.  You don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Anytime one of you pro-Jihadist and Radical Islamic fighters tells me to "shut your ignorant trap," I get that _Detective Columbo_ type feeling that I'm close to something (if not on target).
> 
> Oh, just one more thing...  The next time one of you Radical Islamic Jihadist does something patriotic; let me know.  I get confused between kidnapping and murder, bombing and hijacking, attacks on women and children, and other such criminal behaviors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oh gee, another slime the Palestinians post.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici, et al,
> 
> I find it is important for the Arab Palestinians to attempt to draw an association between true patriots defending their homeland during a time of war --- and --- the Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters as state and non-state actors in violation of Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a blowhard Rocco is.   Resistance to occupation is not terrorism.  If that were the case the French resistance and the Italian and Yugoslav partisans would have been prosecuted for terrorism after the war. Just shut your ignorant trap Rocco.  You don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Anytime one of you pro-Jihadist and Radical Islamic fighters tells me to "shut your ignorant trap," I get that _Detective Columbo_ type feeling that I'm close to something (if not on target).
> 
> Oh, just one more thing...  The next time one of you Radical Islamic Jihadist does something patriotic; let me know.  I get confused between kidnapping and murder, bombing and hijacking, attacks on women and children, and other such criminal behaviors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


When the absurdity of your assertions becomes overwhelming, the suggestion of shutting your trap is a helpful recommendation.  The Israeli Jews almost exclusively kill Arab women and children.  In Gaza 70% of the casualties were civilians and more than 50% were women and children.  The Palestinians are far less reckless.

What would something an occupied resistance could do that would be patriotic in your opinion.  Would ANC or Algerian FLN tactics be patriotic?  They were successful after all.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, et al,
> 
> I find it is important for the Arab Palestinians to attempt to draw an association between true patriots defending their homeland during a time of war --- and --- the Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters as state and non-state actors in violation of Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a blowhard Rocco is.   Resistance to occupation is not terrorism.  If that were the case the French resistance and the Italian and Yugoslav partisans would have been prosecuted for terrorism after the war. Just shut your ignorant trap Rocco.  You don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Anytime one of you pro-Jihadist and Radical Islamic fighters tells me to "shut your ignorant trap," I get that _Detective Columbo_ type feeling that I'm close to something (if not on target).
> 
> Oh, just one more thing...  The next time one of you Radical Islamic Jihadist does something patriotic; let me know.  I get confused between kidnapping and murder, bombing and hijacking, attacks on women and children, and other such criminal behaviors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the absurdity of your assertions becomes overwhelming, the suggestion of shutting your trap is a helpful recommendation.  The Israeli Jews almost exclusively kill Arab women and children.  In Gaza 70% of the casualties were civilians and more than 50% were women and children.  The Palestinians are far less reckless.
> 
> What would something an occupied resistance could do that would be patriotic in your opinion.  Would ANC or Algerian FLN tactics be patriotic?  They were successful after all.
Click to expand...


What a shame you're whining about how unfair it is that Islamics die in greater numbers than Israelis. Your Islamic terrorist heroes create the conditions that cause Israel to retaliate. 

Let's be honest here; the deaths of islamic civilians serves as little more than cheap propaganda for you and the Islamic terrorist franchises. How often do we need to hear the "martyr" slogan ascribed to the latest (and now very dead), islamo-bot who was raised from childhood on a steady diet of Islamic hate and direction toward self destruction. This is a core component of islamist religious doctrine; life tends to be cheap because the adherent's believe that life continues after death; that there are rewards for martyrdom and that life is replaceable by the gods. There is an allowance for killing because you are "going to a better place" and an allowance for being the victim because there are rewards for being martyred. Most of stand in shocked disbelief at the carnage that Moslems are so willing to inflict on themselves and others. Or, at least we used to be shocked. Now we just count the bodies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Suheir Hammad- *''First Writing Since.''


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Susan Abulhawa*

*Palestinian Activist Susan Abulhawa Speaks To Philly Justice Coalition and Black Lives Matter 
*

**


----------



## Hollie

A handful of knuckleheads and a misfit "activist". 

Very strange who Islamic trrrorist huggers define as their heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Hala Alyan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Fatin Jarara*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **



You watch too many of these videos.  That's why you are brainwashed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watch too many of these videos.  That's why you are brainwashed.
Click to expand...

I hear a lot of complaints, however, nobody has refuted any of the issues.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watch too many of these videos.  That's why you are brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear a lot of complaints, however, nobody has refuted any of the issues.
Click to expand...


Refuted what issues?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watch too many of these videos.  That's why you are brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear a lot of complaints, however, nobody has refuted any of the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Refuted what issues?
Click to expand...

The issues that I am supposedly brainwashed about.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watch too many of these videos.  That's why you are brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hear a lot of complaints, however, nobody has refuted any of the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Refuted what issues?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issues that I am supposedly brainwashed about.
Click to expand...


There must be a YouTube video dealing with the issues you're brainwashed about.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


Music videos for Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> Music videos for Death Cultists.


The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.

You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> Music videos for Death Cultists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide. 

Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane. 

Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> Music videos for Death Cultists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide.
> 
> Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane.
> 
> Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.
Click to expand...

Israel can stop its war any time it wants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Bina Ahmed*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> Music videos for Death Cultists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide.
> 
> Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane.
> 
> Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...


What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> Music videos for Death Cultists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide.
> 
> Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane.
> 
> Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
Click to expand...

I see Israel's war. Where have you been?


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cultists.

Breeding the next generation of murder / suicide Islamo-bots.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?
> 
> 
> Music videos for Death Cultists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide.
> 
> Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane.
> 
> Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see Israel's war. Where have you been?
Click to expand...


What war?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide.
> 
> Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane.
> 
> Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see Israel's war. Where have you been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war?
Click to expand...

The one Israel is always whining about.


----------



## Hollie

Those excitable Death Cutists are already preparing their children to be heaped upon the piles of Islamo-bot "martyrs".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Death Cultists are just celebrating the glory of grooming their children for acts of murder / suicide.
> 
> Such a lovely walk down Death Cult memory lane.
> 
> Cheer up. The recent wave of Arab-Moslem Death Cult stabbings aimed at Israeli citizens can cause you to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see Israel's war. Where have you been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The one Israel is always whining about.
Click to expand...


What war is Israel whining about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see Israel's war. Where have you been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The one Israel is always whining about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war is Israel whining about?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What war? Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> 
> 
> I see Israel's war. Where have you been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The one Israel is always whining about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war is Israel whining about?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Another old, tired YouTube video


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.



You need to update your information.


----------



## RoccoR

Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

There are probably a couple thinks I thought of here.



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to update your information.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Suicide attacks by bomb vest have declined considerable, mostly because the survivor benefits payments have stopped, suicide attacks (as opposed to bombings) are still happening.  The mechanism has changed.




			
				Bus Bomb Attack said:
			
		

> 21 victims were wounded in a terror attack on Monday according to initial reports, targeting a bus in the Pat Junction region of southern central Jerusalem.
> UPDATE – TERROR ATTACK CONFIRMED: Police confirm bus explosion was caused by an explosive device placed by an Arab terrorist and that the terrorist is probably the person in critical condition.  (THE SOURCE)



Hamas *says Jerusalem bus bombing proof of ‘resistance*’
Last week’s *Jerusalem* *bus* *bombing* carried out by a member of Hamas ... including a teenage girl who was seriously hurt, in the *April* *18* *attack*. Haniyeh said the *bombing* “shows that Hamas and the sons of Hamas …

*Palestinians Praise Jerusalem Bus Bombing Targeting Israelis*
Palestinian factions from across the political spectrum are celebrating the latest terrorist *bombing* of *a bus* *in Jerusalem* on Monday afternoon ... political officials celebrated a terrorist *attack* *targeting* unarmed …​
Just as a side note.  This is one of the greatest success stories against terrorist of all time.

2000 and July 2003 (completion of the "first continuous segment" of the Israeli-West Bank barrier)



 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> 2000 and July 2003 (completion of the "first continuous segment" of the Israeli-West Bank barrier)


Another Israeli talking point.

Actually, the Palestinians ended suicide bombing as a policy in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official.

At least one of those attacks since was against soldiers so it was not a terrorist attack.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2000 and July 2003 (completion of the "first continuous segment" of the Israeli-West Bank barrier)
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli talking point.
> 
> Actually, the Palestinians ended suicide bombing as a policy in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official.
> 
> At least one of those attacks since was against soldiers so it was not a terrorist attack.
Click to expand...

The islamo murder / suicide bombings stopped only because Israel made a choice to mete out retaliation that made those Islamic Death Cult activities too costly for the Islamic terrorists. 

You are free to make any and all excuses for acts of islamic terrorism you wish. Just be aware that your Islamic terrorist heroes have no entitlement to murder / suicide free from consequences.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2000 and July 2003 (completion of the "first continuous segment" of the Israeli-West Bank barrier)
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli talking point.
> 
> Actually, the Palestinians ended suicide bombing as a policy in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official.
> 
> At least one of those attacks since was against soldiers so it was not a terrorist attack.
Click to expand...


_"Actually, the Palestinians ended *suicide bombing as a policy *in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official."_
_

Golden! _
You're actually telling us that Palestinian govt had an official policy of suicide bombing??


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2000 and July 2003 (completion of the "first continuous segment" of the Israeli-West Bank barrier)
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli talking point.
> 
> Actually, the Palestinians ended suicide bombing as a policy in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official.
> 
> At least one of those attacks since was against soldiers so it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _"Actually, the Palestinians ended *suicide bombing as a policy *in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official."
> 
> 
> Golden! _
> You're actually telling us that Palestinian govt had an official policy of suicide bombing??
Click to expand...

No I didn't say that. Suicide bombing was common among the resistance groups. Hamas campaigned against this in its campaign in the 2006 elections. When Hamas won they called for a truce. Hamas stopped its attacks on Israel and the other factions , more or less, went along. Of course Israel did not reciprocate. Hamas held its truce for 16 months until Israel shelled a family on a Gaza beach. With rare exception, suicide bombing did not return.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Ramzy Baroud *

**


----------



## rylah

Who are the Palestinians and their culture?

Rabbi Chaim Vital - born in Sefad (1542- 1620) was a prominent Palestinian Jew, Kabbalist who studied with the giants of that time.
His works like the magnum opus "Tree of Life", are being studied today in depth by scholars around the world:


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When Hamas won they called for a truce. Hamas stopped its attacks on Israel and the other factions , more or less, went along. Of course Israel did not reciprocate. Hamas held its truce for 16 months until Israel shelled a family on a Gaza beach.



Which 16 month period are you claiming was free from rocket fire?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2000 and July 2003 (completion of the "first continuous segment" of the Israeli-West Bank barrier)
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli talking point.
> 
> Actually, the Palestinians ended suicide bombing as a policy in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official.
> 
> At least one of those attacks since was against soldiers so it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _"Actually, the Palestinians ended *suicide bombing as a policy *in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official."
> 
> 
> Golden! _
> You're actually telling us that Palestinian govt had an official policy of suicide bombing??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I didn't say that. Suicide bombing was common among the resistance groups. Hamas campaigned against this in its campaign in the 2006 elections. When Hamas won they called for a truce. Hamas stopped its attacks on Israel and the other factions , more or less, went along. Of course Israel did not reciprocate. Hamas held its truce for 16 months until Israel shelled a family on a Gaza beach. With rare exception, suicide bombing did not return.
Click to expand...


So... even though you wrote out:

"Actually, the Palestinians ended suicide bombing as a policy in 2005/2006. There have been a few stragglers since then but nothing official."

Were to understand that you qualified your comment with, "No, I didn't say that."


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinians and their culture:


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians and their culture:


Joking right? 

Paul was  a Greek speaking Turk, born in Tarsus, a center of Greek culture and philosophy at the time.
His reliance on Greek translation of the Torah  - reveals a lack of basic knowledge in Hebrew.

However I understand he's a saint to You, please don't take it as an insult. These are simple fact You Yourself can confirm, I'll be glad to present You with specific examples- in a dedicated forum.

P.S.: If we're going to include people who weren't born in Palestine, and present them as Palestinians- let me know...


----------



## montelatici

There are plenty of apostles born in Palestine.






P.S. The Palestinians are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine, their ancestors were the first Christians, that most converted to Islam doesn't change their ancestors.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Who are the Palestinians and their culture?
> 
> Rabbi Chaim Vital - born in Sefad (1542- 1620) was a prominent Palestinian Jew, Kabbalist who studied with the giants of that time.
> His works like the magnum opus "Tree of Life", are being studied today in depth by scholars around the world:


The Jews of Safed came from Spain after 1492.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians and their culture?
> 
> Rabbi Chaim Vital - born in Sefad (1542- 1620) was a prominent Palestinian Jew, Kabbalist who studied with the giants of that time.
> His works like the magnum opus "Tree of Life", are being studied today in depth by scholars around the world:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews of Safed came from Spain after 1492.
Click to expand...


The Palestinian Jews I've referred to were born in Palestine.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> There are plenty of apostles born in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. The Palestinians are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine, their ancestors were the first Christians, that most converted to Islam doesn't change their ancestors.



Have to prove that 
However this bogus claim contradicts the historical experience and tendencies of conquered communities which basically, throughout history, especially in the ME didn't adopt conquering cultures.

Yazidis, Kurds and the Druze communities in the ME today are a proof.


----------



## montelatici

Palestine was under close and direct Roman rule, after 380 AD inhabitants of Palestine could only be Christian, by law.  Those that had not already converted to Christianity converted to remain residents of Jerusalem and Palestine.  That's just a fact.  There were no Jews in Palestine when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> There are plenty of apostles born in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. The Palestinians are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine, their ancestors were the first Christians, that most converted to Islam doesn't change their ancestors.


That's pretty silly. The geographic area of Pal'istan has been the subject of many invasions by various conquering cultures. The "people that have always lived in Pal'istan" is obviously a false claim.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Palestine was under close and direct Roman rule, after 380 AD inhabitants of Palestine could only be Christian, by law.  Those that had not already converted to Christianity converted to remain residents of Jerusalem and Palestine.  That's just a fact.  There were no Jews in Palestine when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem.



So how was The Jerusalem Talmud written at the time?
Where did  Abu Isa Obadiah find so many Jews to fight for Jerusalem?


----------



## montelatici

You need to read real historical records, not religious bullshit.  

Jews had been excluded from Jerusalem for 500 years until the Persians (Sassanids) conquered Jerusalem and allowed Jews to re-enter for a short time.  This is from a Jewish historical site which I use when Zionists try to produce alternative facts.

In 602 AD "After they took Jerusalem, the Persians allowed the Jews back into their city, after an absence of 500 years caused by the Romans and the Byzantines. This had a great echo in the Jewish diaspora who believe that this capture was a sign of the upcoming Messianic times. But the situation did not last long as the Sassanid ruler reversed his decision to allow the Jews in the city, by fears of many rebellions across his empire."

In 627 AD "The Judea (or Palestine) and the city of Jerusalem was reconquered by the army of Byzantine emperor Heraclius in 628. So the Jews had only been able to remain over their city for about 7 years until 628. Heraclius started to reign in 610. He was from Cappadocia, a region of Asia Minor, in modern-day Turkey, but of Armenian descent. "

"And indeed, the return of Byzantine rule over Jerusalem was very bad news for the Jews. Although Heraclius had given them his oath of protection, once in Jerusalem he was influenced by the local Christians to carry out a massacre in Jerusalem and of Galilee because of their support to the Persians in the previous war, as reported by Eutychius, Patriarch of Alexandria:

"Heraclius said to them [the Christians of Jerusalem]: “What do you want, then?”“That you give us satisfaction,” they replied. “Kill every Jew who is found around Jerusalem and in Galilee, because if another hostile people come to us, we don’t want them to help them again against us, just as they have helped the Persians.”--- Annals of Eutychius (see text online)"

*"638 CE – The Muslims take Jerusalem*
Two years after the death of Muhammad, Omar ibn al-Khattab, one of his fathers-in-law, became the second Caliph and directed the army of Muslims into the Levant. They took several cities from the Byzantines, often with the help of the Jews who saw them as liberators against the oppression exerted upon them by the Christian rulers. 

"Jerusalem alone stood in the midst of the Muslim conquest. The Christian religious authority of the city preferred to surrender it, with suitable peace guarantees, rather than seeing it destroyed. So Omar entered Jerusalem in 638 without a battle."
SEDER OLAM REVISITED - Chronology of the Jewish History


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> You need to read real historical records, not religious bullshit.
> 
> Jews had been excluded from Jerusalem for 500 years until the Persians (Sassanids) conquered Jerusalem and allowed Jews to re-enter for a short time.  This is from a Jewish historical site which I use when Zionists try to produce alternative facts.
> 
> In 602 AD "After they took Jerusalem, the Persians allowed the Jews back into their city, after an absence of 500 years caused by the Romans and the Byzantines. This had a great echo in the Jewish diaspora who believe that this capture was a sign of the upcoming Messianic times. But the situation did not last long as the Sassanid ruler reversed his decision to allow the Jews in the city, by fears of many rebellions across his empire."
> 
> In 627 AD "The Judea (or Palestine) and the city of Jerusalem was reconquered by the army of Byzantine emperor Heraclius in 628. So the Jews had only been able to remain over their city for about 7 years until 628. Heraclius started to reign in 610. He was from Cappadocia, a region of Asia Minor, in modern-day Turkey, but of Armenian descent. "
> 
> "And indeed, the return of Byzantine rule over Jerusalem was very bad news for the Jews. Although Heraclius had given them his oath of protection, once in Jerusalem he was influenced by the local Christians to carry out a massacre in Jerusalem and of Galilee because of their support to the Persians in the previous war, as reported by Eutychius, Patriarch of Alexandria:
> 
> "Heraclius said to them [the Christians of Jerusalem]: “What do you want, then?”“That you give us satisfaction,” they replied. “Kill every Jew who is found around Jerusalem and in Galilee, because if another hostile people come to us, we don’t want them to help them again against us, just as they have helped the Persians.”--- Annals of Eutychius (see text online)"
> 
> *"638 CE – The Muslims take Jerusalem*
> Two years after the death of Muhammad, Omar ibn al-Khattab, one of his fathers-in-law, became the second Caliph and directed the army of Muslims into the Levant. They took several cities from the Byzantines, often with the help of the Jews who saw them as liberators against the oppression exerted upon them by the Christian rulers.
> 
> "Jerusalem alone stood in the midst of the Muslim conquest. The Christian religious authority of the city preferred to surrender it, with suitable peace guarantees, rather than seeing it destroyed. So Omar entered Jerusalem in 638 without a battle."
> SEDER OLAM REVISITED - Chronology of the Jewish History



 HILLLARIOUS!


First You claimed (post #3845) that "there were no Jews in Palestine".
Second You claimed I was reading "religious bs" (what specifically the facts about Jerusalem Talmud?)

Anyway now You're quoting from Christian and Jewish sources that actually contradict EVERYTHING You've just claimed! 

So how and where was the Jerusalem Talmud written?


----------



## montelatici

You read the history.  There were no Jews from 380 AD until the Persians conquered Palestine and then they were removed when the Christians (Romans) defeated the Persians 7 years later.  As far as the Jerusalem Talmud, it seems to have been written before Rome made Christianity the state religion in 380 AD, before Jews and followers of other religions were obliged to adopt the state religion of Rome.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> You read the history.  There were no Jews from 380 AD until the Persians conquered Palestine and then they were removed when the Christians (Romans) defeated the Persians 7 years later.  As far as the Jerusalem Talmud, it seems to have been written before Rome made Christianity the state religion in 380 AD, before Jews and followers of other religions were obliged to adopt the state religion of Rome.



Good luck proving any of that. I'm really here to learn.

When You have anything to present, rather than documents that actually contradict Your claims (didn't You read?), or simply Your 'say so'-

I'll be more than glad to read.

However If You're going that way, You'll have to prove Your other claim that current Arab Palestinians have ALWAYS resided in Palestine- which You can't


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You read the history.  There were no Jews from 380 AD until the Persians conquered Palestine and then they were removed when the Christians (Romans) defeated the Persians 7 years later.  As far as the Jerusalem Talmud, it seems to have been written before Rome made Christianity the state religion in 380 AD, before Jews and followers of other religions were obliged to adopt the state religion of Rome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck proving any of that. I'm really here to learn.
> 
> When You have anything to present, rather than documents that actually contradict Your claims (didn't You read?), or simply Your 'say so'-
> 
> I'll be more than glad to read.
> 
> However If You're going that way, You'll have to prove Your other claim that current Arab Palestinians have ALWAYS resided in Palestine- which You can't
Click to expand...


Doesn't need to be proven, it's historical fact.

The current Muslims and Christians in Palestine are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine, that's a fact too.

Nothing contradicts my claims, because they are not claims.  It is fact.

More importantly, the Zionists from Europe are not descendants of people that have always lived in Palestine.  Their ancestors are Europeans.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You read the history.  There were no Jews from 380 AD until the Persians conquered Palestine and then they were removed when the Christians (Romans) defeated the Persians 7 years later.  As far as the Jerusalem Talmud, it seems to have been written before Rome made Christianity the state religion in 380 AD, before Jews and followers of other religions were obliged to adopt the state religion of Rome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck proving any of that. I'm really here to learn.
> 
> When You have anything to present, rather than documents that actually contradict Your claims (didn't You read?), or simply Your 'say so'-
> 
> I'll be more than glad to read.
> 
> However If You're going that way, You'll have to prove Your other claim that current Arab Palestinians have ALWAYS resided in Palestine- which You can't
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't need to be proven, it's historical fact.
> 
> The current Muslims and Christians in Palestine are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine, that's a fact too.
> 
> Nothing contradicts my claims, because they are not claims.  It is fact.
> 
> More importantly, the Zionists from Europe are not descendants of people that have always lived in Palestine.  Their ancestors are Europeans.
Click to expand...


And we're back to* Your usual 'say so'.*
One would think a highly educated person like You would have a variety of sources to prove that.


Isn't this a bit infantile Professor?


----------



## montelatici

I provided the sources, you just don't accept historical fact.  You have only been exposed to Zionist propaganda.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> I provided the sources, you just don't accept historical fact.  You have only been exposed to Zionist propaganda.



Your sources actually contradict Your claims. And the way You pound on the *"You're a Zionist, only I have the right sources"*  proves that You have no real argument here.

It's always easier to belittle someone than actually defend Your position.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lamis Deek*


----------



## Hollie

Screeching on behalf of CAIR terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


Twice this month Palestinian Authority TV’s children’s program _The Best Home_had young children recite poems encouraging violence. One poem called for murder of Israelis “as we slaughtered them in your streets, Beirut.” The poem also urged Palestinians to seek death, emphasizing that if you are a member of Fatah, Mahmoud Abbas’ party, your “blood is food for the revolution”:


Young boy on PA TV kid’s program recites poem encouraging “slaughter” of Israelis, glorifying death


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Raneem Nabulsi*

**


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I provided the sources, you just don't accept historical fact.  You have only been exposed to Zionist propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your sources actually contradict Your claims. And the way You pound on the *"You're a Zionist, only I have the right sources"*  proves that You have no real argument here.
> 
> It's always easier to belittle someone than actually defend Your position.
Click to expand...


The sources I provide confirm all my claims, which come directly from the sources.  That's how I work.  Your saying it isn't so (typical tack for alternate fact purveyors) doesn't change the facts.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You read the history.  There were no Jews from 380 AD until the Persians conquered Palestine and then they were removed when the Christians (Romans) defeated the Persians 7 years later.  As far as the Jerusalem Talmud, it seems to have been written before Rome made Christianity the state religion in 380 AD, before Jews and followers of other religions were obliged to adopt the state religion of Rome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck proving any of that. I'm really here to learn.
> 
> When You have anything to present, rather than documents that actually contradict Your claims (didn't You read?), or simply Your 'say so'-
> 
> I'll be more than glad to read.
> 
> However If You're going that way, You'll have to prove Your other claim that current Arab Palestinians have ALWAYS resided in Palestine- which You can't
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't need to be proven, it's historical fact.
> 
> The current Muslims and Christians in Palestine are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine, that's a fact too.
> 
> Nothing contradicts my claims, because they are not claims.  It is fact.
> 
> More importantly, the Zionists from Europe are not descendants of people that have always lived in Palestine.  Their ancestors are Europeans.
Click to expand...

"Monty facts" tend to be less fact and more creative interpretation. As we know, the geographic area of Pal'istan has been invaded and conquered several times. With those conquerers and invaders came new populations. It's quite nonsensical to suggest that your alternate facts of "The current Muslims and Christians in Palestine are the descendants of the people that have always lived in Palestine" is anything other than just another of your "invented facts".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Laila El Haddad*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cultist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

A Hysterical Pal'istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek*


----------



## Hollie

IDF letters to Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Khaled Jarrar*


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


IDF resistance to Islamic terrorism


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Muslims participate in Christmas festivities...like Palestinian Christians participate in Eid festivities....always have, don't let the sectarians of *any* religious sect tell u otherwise...One People, One Land, One History, One Future.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian Muslims participate in Christmas festivities...like Palestinian Christians participate in Eid festivities....always have, don't let the sectarians of *any* religious sect tell u otherwise...One People, One Land, One History, One Future.



Then why are Christians fleeing the PA-controlled areas of the West Bank in droves?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Muslims participate in Christmas festivities...like Palestinian Christians participate in Eid festivities....always have, don't let the sectarians of *any* religious sect tell u otherwise...One People, One Land, One History, One Future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are Christians fleeing the PA-controlled areas of the West Bank in droves?
Click to expand...

It is worse in Jerusalem that is Israeli controlled.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Muslims participate in Christmas festivities...like Palestinian Christians participate in Eid festivities....always have, don't let the sectarians of *any* religious sect tell u otherwise...One People, One Land, One History, One Future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are Christians fleeing the PA-controlled areas of the West Bank in droves?
Click to expand...


They aren't.  You are making it up or are parroting Zionist propaganda.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I provided the sources, you just don't accept historical fact.  You have only been exposed to Zionist propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your sources actually contradict Your claims. And the way You pound on the *"You're a Zionist, only I have the right sources"*  proves that You have no real argument here.
> 
> It's always easier to belittle someone than actually defend Your position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sources I provide confirm all my claims, which come directly from the sources.  That's how I work.  Your saying it isn't so (typical tack for alternate fact purveyors) doesn't change the facts.
Click to expand...


What sources have You provided that confirmed Your claims:
1."All Palestinian Arabs are the only indigenous inhabitants that always stayed in Palestine"
2. "There were no Jews in Palestine since Roman conquest"

Just once show a valid open source that confirms anything You parrot.

PS- meanwhile there's plenty official documents confirming otherwise. 
About Palestinian Jews and Arab immigration in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Peel Commission is one such example.


----------



## montelatici

Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction, not a racial or genetic distinction.  A Berber in Algeria or an Arabian (Bedouin) from the Arabian peninsula is nothing like a Levantine from Palestine or Lebanon. They just speak the same language and share literature, foods etc. 

While many people in Palestine  had already converted to Christianity before 380 AD, after 380 AD, the Roman Empire made Christianity the state religion.  Most non-Christians throughout the empire converted to Christianity.  In the province of Palestine, because of its importance to Christianity, to be a resident one had to be a Christian.  Hence, permanent residents were Christians that had converted from other religions, including Judaism.

Besides residency requirements, Emperor Theodosius I issued heresy laws, which made it imprudent to practice any religion but Christianity.

 "We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom we adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of our own initiative, which we shall assume in accordance with divine judgement."

The Christian Church and the Persecution of Heretics


"Almost overnight, Christianity was propelled to the status of global, theological powerhouse. Roman citizens and subjects converted in droves, as Christians were afforded special tax breaks and other amenities not available to any other religious affiliations. Despite its favored status, other religions were now outlawed by Constantine. It would not be until later in the 4th century (380), when Christianity would be named the official state religion of Rome, illegalizing all other models of worship.  ................................Failing to convert typically elicited deportation or execution."

How Christianity Rose to Dominate Europe


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction, not a racial or genetic distinction.  A Berber in Algeria or an Arabian (Bedouin) from the Arabian peninsula is nothing like a Levantine from Palestine or Lebanon. They just speak the same language and share literature, foods etc.
> 
> While many people in Palestine  had already converted to Christianity before 380 AD, after 380 AD, the Roman Empire made Christianity the state religion.  Most non-Christians throughout the empire converted to Christianity.  In the province of Palestine, because of its importance to Christianity, to be a resident one had to be a Christian.  Hence, permanent residents were Christians that had converted from other religions, including Judaism.
> 
> Besides residency requirements, Emperor Theodosius I issued heresy laws, which made it imprudent to practice any religion but Christianity.
> 
> "We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom we adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of our own initiative, which we shall assume in accordance with divine judgement."
> 
> The Christian Church and the Persecution of Heretics
> 
> 
> "Almost overnight, Christianity was propelled to the status of global, theological powerhouse. Roman citizens and subjects converted in droves, as Christians were afforded special tax breaks and other amenities not available to any other religious affiliations. Despite its favored status, other religions were now outlawed by Constantine. It would not be until later in the 4th century (380), when Christianity would be named the official state religion of Rome, illegalizing all other models of worship.  ................................Failing to convert typically elicited deportation or execution."
> 
> How Christianity Rose to Dominate Europe




So is a law written on another continent a precise representation of the reality in place, or just a wish to see things that way?

The Jerusalem Talmud was complied in 450 CE, in 614 Shahrabaraz found enough Jews led by Nehemia ben Hushiel and Benjamin of Tiberias in Palestina, to reinforce his army and recapture Jerusalem.

This are just 2 more examples along numerous others I've presented, historic FACTS that can be checked by any 3rd grade pupil.

And still no concrete evidence of 'No Jews in Palestina' or "Arab Palestinians are the only indigenous inhabitants".

What scholars confirm those claims?


----------



## montelatici

Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction ....



No, get hung up on culture.  Entire cultures don't just magically transform themselves into other cultures, you know.  It takes a tremendous amount of exposure and influence.  Those types of drastic transformations don't happen without events (invasion, conquest, expulsion, forced conversion, ethnic cleansing, genocide, wars) to make them happen.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, get hung up on culture.  Entire cultures don't just magically transform themselves into other cultures, you know.  It takes a tremendous amount of exposure and influence.  Those types of drastic transformations don't happen without events (invasion, conquest, expulsion, forced conversion, ethnic cleansing, genocide, wars) to make them happen.
Click to expand...


And how does that change the ancestry of the Palestinians?  So, the people of the Roman province of Palestina who practiced different religions became Christian after 380 AD, forcefully or otherwise.  They are still the ancestors of the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine. The ancestors of the Zionist Europeans were, on the other hand, overwhelmingly Europeans.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, get hung up on culture.  Entire cultures don't just magically transform themselves into other cultures, you know.  It takes a tremendous amount of exposure and influence.  Those types of drastic transformations don't happen without events (invasion, conquest, expulsion, forced conversion, ethnic cleansing, genocide, wars) to make them happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how does that change the ancestry of the Palestinians?  So, the people of the Roman province of Palestina who practiced different religions became Christian after 380 AD, forcefully or otherwise.  They are still the ancestors of the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine. The ancestors of the Zionist Europeans were, on the other hand, overwhelmingly Europeans.
Click to expand...


Should we go through the documents showing a flood of Arab immigrant, You call today 'palestinians'?...You know some of the documents You use state exactly that.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.



Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.



Then contradict them, otherwise just Your usual 'SAY-SO'...


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, get hung up on culture.  Entire cultures don't just magically transform themselves into other cultures, you know.  It takes a tremendous amount of exposure and influence.  Those types of drastic transformations don't happen without events (invasion, conquest, expulsion, forced conversion, ethnic cleansing, genocide, wars) to make them happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how does that change the ancestry of the Palestinians?  So, the people of the Roman province of Palestina who practiced different religions became Christian after 380 AD, forcefully or otherwise.  They are still the ancestors of the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine. The ancestors of the Zionist Europeans were, on the other hand, overwhelmingly Europeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Should we go through the documents showing a flood of Arab immigrant, You call today 'palestinians'?...You know some of the documents You use state exactly that.
Click to expand...


The documents I use, from official archives, show the opposite. There was no flood of Arab immigrants, that's just Hasbara propaganda. There was a flood of European Zionists though.






A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get hung up on "Arab".  It is a cultural and linguistic distinction ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, get hung up on culture.  Entire cultures don't just magically transform themselves into other cultures, you know.  It takes a tremendous amount of exposure and influence.  Those types of drastic transformations don't happen without events (invasion, conquest, expulsion, forced conversion, ethnic cleansing, genocide, wars) to make them happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how does that change the ancestry of the Palestinians?  So, the people of the Roman province of Palestina who practiced different religions became Christian after 380 AD, forcefully or otherwise.  They are still the ancestors of the Muslim and Christian people of Palestine. The ancestors of the Zionist Europeans were, on the other hand, overwhelmingly Europeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Should we go through the documents showing a flood of Arab immigrant, You call today 'palestinians'?...You know some of the documents You use state exactly that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The documents I use, from official archives, show the opposite. There was no flood of Arab immigrants, that's just Hasbara propaganda. There was a flood of European Zionists though.
> 
> View attachment 111612
> 
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 1  | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University
Click to expand...


However, we know there is more than your selected article to use a resource. 

*The Arabs in Palestine*

*A Population Boom *
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. 

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab -Moslem terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
Click to expand...



About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians. 

"O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .

*Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."

Antonius Straegos

Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD

Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab -Moslem terrorists


Israel should have allowed Dalal Mughrabi to go back home. Then shit like that would not have happened.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab -Moslem terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel should have allowed Dalal Mughrabi to go back home. Then shit like that would not have happened.
Click to expand...

Actually, no.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians.
> 
> "O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .
> 
> *Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."
> 
> Antonius Straegos
> 
> Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD
> 
> Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.
Click to expand...


Hhh an angry monk who's blaming the 'wicked Jews' for all his troubles- thats NEW 

Thanks for the info.
While trying so hard to erase Jews from Palestine, You actually find more proof to contradict Your bogus repetitive claims 

The use of 'vile Jews'  is consistent with Your other expressions towards the Jews allover this forum:
#139


> Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult.


#9
[QUOTE]As a Christian, I would favor a new Crusade to return Palestine to its rightful owners, we Christians. Muslims and Jews are both just a bunch of troublemakers.[/QUOTE]

#26


> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could just go with the 'Synagogue of satan' sermon and everything would be clear from the beginning.
Anyway seems You still don't realize that Your source still contradicts Your claim 

*Note that next time we're arguing history I'll be able to use Jewish sources to confirm my claims as You did above.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians.
> 
> "O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .
> 
> *Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."
> 
> Antonius Straegos
> 
> Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD
> 
> Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hhh an angry monk who's blaming the 'wicked Jews' for all his troubles- thats NEW
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> While trying so hard to erase Jews from Palestine, You actually find more proof to contradict Your bogus repetitive claims
> 
> The use of 'vile Jews'  is consistent with Your other expressions towards the Jews allover this forum:
> #139
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #9
> [QUOTE]As a Christian, I would favor a new Crusade to return Palestine to its rightful owners, we Christians. Muslims and Jews are both just a bunch of troublemakers.
Click to expand...


#26


> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could just go with the 'Synagogue of satan' sermon and everything would be clear from the beginning.
Anyway seems You still don't realize that Your source still contradicts Your claim 

*Note that next time we're arguing history I'll be able to use Jewish sources to confirm my claims as You did above.[/QUOTE]

What Jewish sources.  There were no Jews in Palestine, just about 20,000 among the Persian troops.

And, the link sustains my reporting of fact.  I make no claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rafeef Ziadah on Palestine, G4S and the Prison Industrial Complex *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?

BTW, when did this attack take place?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?
> 
> BTW, when did this attack take place?
Click to expand...


Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?
> 
> BTW, when did this attack take place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?
> 
> BTW, when did this attack take place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?
Click to expand...


You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?
> 
> BTW, when did this attack take place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.
Click to expand...

That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians.
> 
> "O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .
> 
> *Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."
> 
> Antonius Straegos
> 
> Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD
> 
> Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hhh an angry monk who's blaming the 'wicked Jews' for all his troubles- thats NEW
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> While trying so hard to erase Jews from Palestine, You actually find more proof to contradict Your bogus repetitive claims
> 
> The use of 'vile Jews'  is consistent with Your other expressions towards the Jews allover this forum:
> #139
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #9
> [QUOTE]As a Christian, I would favor a new Crusade to return Palestine to its rightful owners, we Christians. Muslims and Jews are both just a bunch of troublemakers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #26
> 
> 
> 
> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You could just go with the 'Synagogue of satan' sermon and everything would be clear from the beginning.
> Anyway seems You still don't realize that Your source still contradicts Your claim
> 
> *Note that next time we're arguing history I'll be able to use Jewish sources to confirm my claims as You did above.
Click to expand...


When did a report by an angry monk become a fact? Maybe we should take the words of Mark Twain too then.

Fact is the Jerusalem Talmud was compiled in Eretz Israel (around 4111) and it contains generations long discussion about the Mishnah, all written by rabbis who lived in Israel.

The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour, and some 1948 years later Edom recognized the Jewish nation and connection leading other nations to do so. Hashem promises and covenants are forever.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?
> 
> BTW, when did this attack take place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


It's actually comical reading appeals to "phacts" from an Islamic terrorist supporter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 8 members of her family. What did Israel expect? Flowers and candy?
> 
> BTW, when did this attack take place?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's actually comical reading appeals to "phacts" from an Islamic terrorist supporter.
Click to expand...

Oooooo,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel responded to attacks from Islamic terrorists. Why would you expect an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequences?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's actually comical reading appeals to "phacts" from an Islamic terrorist supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooooo,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,
Click to expand...


It's hilarious that spam is your best effort.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's actually comical reading appeals to "phacts" from an Islamic terrorist supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooooo,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's hilarious that spam is your best effort.
Click to expand...

You are the one who keeps spamming terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're still cutting and pasting that same slogan because you aren't prepared to address the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's actually comical reading appeals to "phacts" from an Islamic terrorist supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooooo,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's hilarious that spam is your best effort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who keeps spamming terrorist.
Click to expand...


Being honest about your Islamic terrorist heroes is not spamming.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is fact. That is Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually comical reading appeals to "phacts" from an Islamic terrorist supporter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooooo,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,terrorist,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's hilarious that spam is your best effort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who keeps spamming terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being honest about your Islamic terrorist heroes is not spamming.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Salwa Srour*- See more at: Gaza gets its first woman bus driver


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your religious examples have nothing to do with reality and historical fact.  The Jews that helped the Persians conquer Jerusalem were very few and were from outside of Palestine.  The Jews were a tiny part of the Persian army.  Don't flatter yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians.
> 
> "O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .
> 
> *Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."
> 
> Antonius Straegos
> 
> Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD
> 
> Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hhh an angry monk who's blaming the 'wicked Jews' for all his troubles- thats NEW
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> While trying so hard to erase Jews from Palestine, You actually find more proof to contradict Your bogus repetitive claims
> 
> The use of 'vile Jews'  is consistent with Your other expressions towards the Jews allover this forum:
> #139
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #9
> [QUOTE]As a Christian, I would favor a new Crusade to return Palestine to its rightful owners, we Christians. Muslims and Jews are both just a bunch of troublemakers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #26
> 
> 
> 
> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You could just go with the 'Synagogue of satan' sermon and everything would be clear from the beginning.
> Anyway seems You still don't realize that Your source still contradicts Your claim
> 
> *Note that next time we're arguing history I'll be able to use Jewish sources to confirm my claims as You did above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did a report by an angry monk become a fact? Maybe we should take the words of Mark Twain too then.
> 
> Fact is the Jerusalem Talmud was compiled in Eretz Israel (around 4111) and it contains generations long discussion about the Mishnah, all written by rabbis who lived in Israel.
> 
> The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour, and some 1948 years later Edom recognized the Jewish nation and connection leading other nations to do so. Hashem promises and covenants are forever.
Click to expand...


_"The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour"_

The Romans did not invent Jesus you vile Jew.  The Romans agreed to crucify our Lord at the insistence of you vile Jews.

Be careful, the useful idiot Christians may begin to understand how your kind feels about us Christians.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians.
> 
> "O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .
> 
> *Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."
> 
> Antonius Straegos
> 
> Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD
> 
> Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hhh an angry monk who's blaming the 'wicked Jews' for all his troubles- thats NEW
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> While trying so hard to erase Jews from Palestine, You actually find more proof to contradict Your bogus repetitive claims
> 
> The use of 'vile Jews'  is consistent with Your other expressions towards the Jews allover this forum:
> #139
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #9
> [QUOTE]As a Christian, I would favor a new Crusade to return Palestine to its rightful owners, we Christians. Muslims and Jews are both just a bunch of troublemakers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #26
> 
> 
> 
> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You could just go with the 'Synagogue of satan' sermon and everything would be clear from the beginning.
> Anyway seems You still don't realize that Your source still contradicts Your claim
> 
> *Note that next time we're arguing history I'll be able to use Jewish sources to confirm my claims as You did above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did a report by an angry monk become a fact? Maybe we should take the words of Mark Twain too then.
> 
> Fact is the Jerusalem Talmud was compiled in Eretz Israel (around 4111) and it contains generations long discussion about the Mishnah, all written by rabbis who lived in Israel.
> 
> The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour, and some 1948 years later Edom recognized the Jewish nation and connection leading other nations to do so. Hashem promises and covenants are forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _"The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour"_
> 
> The Romans did not invent Jesus you vile Jew.  The Romans agreed to crucify our Lord at the insistence of you vile Jews.
> 
> Be careful, the useful idiot Christians may begin to understand how your kind feels about us Christians.
Click to expand...


Maybe people who You call "idiot Christians" will understand how You feel towards any non-Christian after reading Your calls for a new crusade to cleanse the Holy Land of non-Christians


It would take hundreds of pages to show all the rooted anti-Semitism in the church, and all the instances it was expressed in action.
There's not one verse in the original Torah about Christians, but there're plenty of "Sons of the devil" verses referring to Jews in the New Testament. Even the early Christian Jews were constantly reminded of them being "vile Jews who killed..."

After 2000 years of inflicted suffering of my people in the Christian communities,
maybe such answers to " vile Jews" actually show that such voice is still strong in the Christian community?











*Letter from Pope Pius XII to Adolf Hitler*

_"To the illustrious, Herr Adolf Hitler, Führer and Chancellor of the German Reich!

Here at the beginning of our pontificate we wish to assure you that we remain devoted to the spiritual welfare of the German people entrusted to your leadership. For them we implore God the Almighty to grant them that true felicity which springs from religion.

We recall with great pleasure the many years we spent in Germany as Apostolic Nuncio, when we did all in our power to establish harmonious relations between Church and State. Now that the responsibilities of our pastoral function have increased our opportunities, how much more ardently do we pray to reach that goal...."_
Pope Pius' Letter to Hitler


----------



## rylah

Palestinian Jews and their culture- ancient Shalom al Yisrael synagogue in Jericho 6th-early 7th CE


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> Palestinian Jews and their culture- ancient Shalom al Yisrael synagogue in Jericho 6th-early 7th CE



Wasn't that ancient synagogue destroyed by the Palestinians, unfortunately, in an effort to erase Jewish history from the Land?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really teach me Professor- how many Jews were added into the Persian army to capture Jerusalem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 20,000 from what I have read.  But, we Christians have a record of what happened. And we that are true Christians and are not brainwashed know how the Jews allied themselves with the Persians.
> 
> "O my brethren, who can estimate the hardships and privations which befell the Christians on that day ? For the multitude of people suffocated one the other, and fathers and mothers perished together owing to the confinement of the place. Like sheep devoted to slaughter, so were the crowd of believers got ready for massacre. Death on every side declared itself, since the intense heat, like fire, consumed the multitude of people, as they trampled on one another in the press, and many perished without the sword. . . .
> 
> *Thereupon the vile Jews, enemies of the truth and haters of Christ,* when they perceived that the Christians were given over into the hands of the enemy, rejoiced exceedingly, because they detested the Christians ; and they conceived an evil plan in keeping with their vileness about the people. For in the eyes of the Persians their importance was great, because they were the betrayers of the Christians. And in this season then the Jews approached the edge of the reservoir _27 _and called out to the children of God, while they were shut up therein, and said to them : 'If ye would escape from death, become Jews and deny Christ; and then ye shall step up from your place and join us. We will ransom you with our money, and ye shall be benefited by us.' But their plot and desire were not fulfilled, their labours proved to be in vain ; because the children of Holy Church chose death for Christ's sake rather than to live in godless-ness : and they reckoned it better for their flesh to be punished, rather than their souls ruined, so that their portion were not with the Jews. And when the unclean Jews saw the steadfast uprightness of the Christians and their immovable faith, then they were agitated with lively ire, like evil beasts, and thereupon imagined another plot. As of old they bought the Lord from the Jews with silver, so they purchased Christians out of the reservoir ; for they gave the Persians silver, and they bought a Christian and slew him like a sheep. The Christians however rejoiced because they were being slain for Christ's sake and shed their blood for His blood, and took on themselves death in return for His death. . ."
> 
> Antonius Straegos
> 
> Antiochus Strategos, The Capture of Jerusalem by the Persians in 614 AD
> 
> Persian rule lasted only 14 years and the Byzantine Christians defeated the Persians and retook Palestine.  The vile Jews were treated accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hhh an angry monk who's blaming the 'wicked Jews' for all his troubles- thats NEW
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> While trying so hard to erase Jews from Palestine, You actually find more proof to contradict Your bogus repetitive claims
> 
> The use of 'vile Jews'  is consistent with Your other expressions towards the Jews allover this forum:
> #139
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #9
> [QUOTE]As a Christian, I would favor a new Crusade to return Palestine to its rightful owners, we Christians. Muslims and Jews are both just a bunch of troublemakers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #26
> 
> 
> 
> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You could just go with the 'Synagogue of satan' sermon and everything would be clear from the beginning.
> Anyway seems You still don't realize that Your source still contradicts Your claim
> 
> *Note that next time we're arguing history I'll be able to use Jewish sources to confirm my claims as You did above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did a report by an angry monk become a fact? Maybe we should take the words of Mark Twain too then.
> 
> Fact is the Jerusalem Talmud was compiled in Eretz Israel (around 4111) and it contains generations long discussion about the Mishnah, all written by rabbis who lived in Israel.
> 
> The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour, and some 1948 years later Edom recognized the Jewish nation and connection leading other nations to do so. Hashem promises and covenants are forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _"The Romans (Edom) already tried to erase Jews and their connection to Zion. A result was them inventing a pagan Jew as their Saviour"_
> 
> The Romans did not invent Jesus you vile Jew.  The Romans agreed to crucify our Lord at the insistence of you vile Jews.
> 
> Be careful, the useful idiot Christians may begin to understand how your kind feels about us Christians.
Click to expand...


monte finally shows his true anti-Jewish colors.  While telling about this little-known episode about how the Jews and Persians took Jerusalem, he shows that Jews indeed lived in the Land.  Like rylah has said, many great Jewish works were compiled during this period.  He also shows his contempt for Muslims, who comprise more than 90% of Palestinians.


----------



## montelatici

The Jews did not live in Palestine prior to the Persian invasion, they invaded Palestine with the Persians.  Only Christians could legally reside in Palestine after the Edict of Thessalonica of 380 AD, when Theodosius I made Christianity the Empires sole authorized religion.  Non-Christians were required to convert to Christianity, Jews included.


"..... In the seventh century, as Jerusalem came into Muslim hands, the ban on Jewish residence was lifted. After approximately 500 years of being Judenrein..."

http://www1.american.edu/TED/hpages/jeruselum/muslim.htm#r3


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> The Jews did not live in Palestine prior to the Persian invasion, they invaded Palestine with the Persians.  Only Christians could legally reside in Palestine after the Edict of Thessalonica of 380 AD, when Theodosius I made Christianity the Empires sole authorized religion.  Non-Christians were required to convert to Christianity, Jews included.
> 
> 
> "..... In the seventh century, as Jerusalem came into Muslim hands, the ban on Jewish residence was lifted. After approximately 500 years of being Judenrein..."
> 
> http://www1.american.edu/TED/hpages/jeruselum/muslim.htm#r3



Here're refferences in Christian sources that contradict Your obsessive parroting:

*A History Of Palestine From 135 A.d To Modern Times - James Parkes (priest and historian)*


 
A History Of Palestine From 135 A.d To Modern Times

Here's another refferecne to Sebeos, an Armenian bishop, historian:


 

A History of the Jewish People

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However all these are irrelevant, because You still haven't produced 1 evidence that "there were no Jews in Palestine". Seems You've changed the goalpost again, Palestine is not only Jerusalem, and the history does not revolve around single dates that You choose.


----------



## Hollie

This is an interesting article that encapsulates the reality that quite clearly, _some_ political ideologies, masquerading as religions are not given to improve or to refine humanities moral compass. In terms of civilization, it was, and still is islamism which clings to an ancient theocratic code that _demonstrably_ denigrates and condemns non-moslems. It is _demonstrably_ the case that one specific component of the world's ideologies / cultures / "religion" is profoundly dysfunctional.



Palestinian Terrorism: No Different Than ISIS and Al Qaeda

*Embracing and celebrating the same violence for the same reasons.*


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> The Romans did not invent Jesus you vile Jew.  The Romans agreed to crucify our Lord at the insistence of you vile Jews.



Oh my.  "vile Jew".  And in the context of "deicide".  Nope, no anti-semitism going on around here.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

^^^ Indisputable proof that these Jews lived in Palestine and joined the Persian invaders only AFTER they arrived.  Thanks rylah.  (see post #3916)


----------



## montelatici

"A History of the Jewish People" written by a Jewish partisan, versus an American University publication.  

"..... In the seventh century, as Jerusalem came into Muslim hands, the ban on Jewish residence was lifted. After approximately 500 years of being Judenrein..."

http://www1.american.edu/TED/hpages/jeruselum/muslim.htm#r3


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> "A History of the Jewish People" written by a Jewish partisan, versus an American University publication.
> 
> "..... In the seventh century, as Jerusalem came into Muslim hands, the ban on Jewish residence was lifted. After approximately 500 years of being Judenrein..."
> 
> http://www1.american.edu/TED/hpages/jeruselum/muslim.htm#r3


So tell us about the status of the non-Moslem dhimmi. Islamic fascism rears its ugly head with the persecution of non-Moslems in Islamist controlled societies which occurs currrently just as it did more than a thousand years ago.


----------



## rylah

Monte Your lies and faul language crossed a certain line:
1. You have a problem with Jewish writers for solely being Jews (this is Your main argument against sources),
2. You confirmed You've graphically manipulated documents and sliced them to match Your propaganda. 
3.,You're calling openly for genocide against all non Christians in Jerusalem, and as a cherry on the top- 
4,You call Palestinian officials and Christian historians "Zionist propaganda". It really becomes hard to take You seriously.

If this is the level of education You get in the US universities, if this is how they teach You to deal with information...Yeshiva boys can put Professors like You in their small pocket, and will do it much more elegantly and rationally.

*Next time deal with the fact in the literature, not the race of the writer.*


----------



## montelatici

There are no lies or no foul language in my posts.

1. Zionist Jews are not neutrals with respect to Palestine. Anything written by Zonist Jews is guaranteed to be propaganda when it addresses the Israel/Palestine issue.

2. Documents have never been manipulated by me. It is Hasbara libel. 

3. I have never called for genocide, you have. 

4. Being a Habara laueate, you exclusively post Zionist propaganda.  You can't be taken seriously


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> There are no lies or no foul language in my posts.
> 
> 1. Zionist Jews are not neutrals with respect to Palestine. Anything written by Zonist Jews is guaranteed to be propaganda when it addresses the Israel/Palestine issue.
> 
> 2. Documents have never been manipulated by me. It is Hasbara libel.
> 
> 3. I have never called for genocide, you have.
> 
> 4. Being a Habara laueate, you exclusively post Zionist propaganda.  You can't be taken seriously



1. Who're "Zionist Jews" - *priest *James Parkes and *bishop *Sebeos*  *or *Dr. Mutaz M. Qafisheh the PLO advisor* (whom You called 'bull**t zionist historian' ) ??

2. Yes You have just recently and confirmed that later.

3. Yes You have - post #139 , post #9, post #26 and my personal favorite from the Montelatici collection:


> A new Christian Crusade would solve a lot of problems. Start with liberating the Holy Land from Jewish and Muslim pretenders and that would send a signal. The Christian Republic of Palestine sounds good to me. From there start kicking ass eastwards and westwards, Lebanon and Egypt, put Christians in power. Syria is secular enough, so they can remain as they are. We have the power now to do so. Russia, Europe, the U.S. and the other Christians lands are so much more powerful than even China and India put together, much less the Muslim world.



4. see 1, 2, 3 above

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Regarding foul language - one only needs to look at the previous page, post#3890, or read how You respond to those who disagree:
"Piece of sh**t (3 pages full of posts)
"Just shut up!" quiet much (5 pages full of posts)
"IDIOT" seems to be another favorite (12 pages full of posts)

However You see, in spite Your  "idiot vile Jew' comments I'm still here listening and returning with arguments. Because You see there's a strong indication, that without all the slogans and melodrama, intellectually Your arguments hold no water.


----------



## montelatici

1.  Yes, there are Christian Zionists.  You weren't aware of that?

2. Never confirmed, the two pages in the original were not aligned and the alignment was made for ease of reading.  It did not change the facts. We have the Hasbara manual you idiot, we know what you are trying to do. LOL

3. My "Deus Vult" (the new Crusade) piece, is what it is what it was tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.

4. No comment.

My use of facts that debunk your bullshit are the reason you are stalking me.  It's in the Hasbara manual. LOL


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> 1.  Yes, there are Christian Zionists.  You weren't aware of that?
> 
> 2. Never confirmed, the two pages in the original were not aligned and the alignment was made for ease of reading.  It did not change the facts. We have the Hasbara manual you idiot, we know what you are trying to do. LOL
> 
> 3. My "Deus Vult" (the new Crusade) piece, is what it is what it was tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.
> 
> 4. No comment.
> 
> My use of facts that debunk your bullshit are the reason you are stalking me.  It's in the Hasbara manual. LOL



1. Yes but You original complaint was about them being *Jews*, which are none, neither Sebeus nor James Parkes.
Zionist Christians must be a great pain for You...there are millions of them in the US.

2 & 3. Well You can say what You want I don't care. The quotes and links were provided for all to see, and confirm the rooted anti-Semitism and Christian supremacy of the Roman church brethren- You were merely a convenient caricature of that.

What 'my bull**t' did You see in our recent arguments HERE that wasn't backed AND cross-referenced by a variety of open sources?


----------



## montelatici

1. Zionists
2. I do think we Christians are more evolved than Jews and Muslims.  Call me a racist. 
3.  You are only following the manual as you were taught in your Hasbara school. We have access to your propaganda manual. 

http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> 1. Zionists
> 2. I do think we Christians are more evolved than Jews and Muslims.  Call me a racist.
> 3.  You are only following the manual as you were taught in your Hasbara school. We have access to your propaganda manual.
> 
> http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf



Armenian bishop Sebeus who lived 1300 years ago was a Zionist??
Another one of Your nonsense non-arguments.

Should I present the writings of the fathers of the church -  the oldest anti-Semitic manual?

You see again, if You had a real argument, not the usual racist projections- You wouldn't need the name calling Professor.


----------



## montelatici

Please present the writings of the fathers of the Church.  If the fathers of our Church were anti-Jewish, they had good reason to be. Most of the early ones were semites and former Jews so it would be crazy to call them ant-semitic.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Please present the writings of the fathers of the Church.  If the fathers of our Church were anti-Jewish, they had good reason to be. Most of the early ones were semites and former Jews so it would be crazy to call them ant-semitic.



And I will in great length if Hashem wants after Shabat.

But suddenly You stop claiming that Sebeus was a Zionist Jew? How so?
I thought You ALWAYS had the only right facts...


----------



## montelatici

Sebeus is your invention.


----------



## rylah

*SEBEOS*, a seventh-century Armenian historian. 



> Who then was the author, if he was not Sebeos or Khosrov?  He has left various clues to his identity. His writing is infused with biblical language and allusions. His inclusion of the full text of the defense of the Armenian church’s Monophysite doctrinal stance (agreed at the Council of Dvin in 649) points to a strong interest in theology. He seems to have had access to the archives of the catholicosate at Dvin, since he includes the text of a fundraising letter sent from Jerusalem by Modestus, deputizing for the deported Patriarch Zacharias, and the Catholicos Komitas’ polite but unforthcoming reply (pp. 116-21, 148-61; cf. Thomson, Armenian History, pp. xlix-lii, liv-lvii). All of this points to a churchman. Confirmation is obtainable from a scene, vividly evoked, which takes place at Dvin late in 653. A recalcitrant bishop tries to avoid taking communion with the Emperor Constans II on the occasion of his visit to the city. He is finally compelled to do so, but not before he has referred to the doctrinal statement of the Council of Dvin (pp. 166-68). It is hard to escape the conclusion that a piece of autobiography, discreetly put in the third person, has been slipped into the history.



SEBEOS – Encyclopaedia Iranica






A History of the Jewish People


----------



## montelatici

Sebeus is not Sebeos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?


So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?

That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?

I know. Too stupid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?
> 
> That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?
> 
> I know. Too stupid.
Click to expand...


Actually, Israeli retaliation to acts of Islamic terrorism certainly has worked at suppressing further attacks. As much as you flail your Pom Poms for your Islamic terrorist heroes, the 2014 beat down delivered by Israel to your heroes in Hamas was an emphatic statement that Islamic terrorism carries consequences. 

Your _gee-had of none_ is a laughable joke.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?
> 
> That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?
> 
> I know. Too stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Israeli retaliation to acts of Islamic terrorism certainly has worked at suppressing further attacks. As much as you flail your Pom Poms for your Islamic terrorist heroes, the 2014 beat down delivered by Israel to your heroes in Hamas was an emphatic statement that Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Your _gee-had of none_ is a laughable joke.
Click to expand...

Duh, bomb'm.

How many times now?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?
> 
> That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?
> 
> I know. Too stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Israeli retaliation to acts of Islamic terrorism certainly has worked at suppressing further attacks. As much as you flail your Pom Poms for your Islamic terrorist heroes, the 2014 beat down delivered by Israel to your heroes in Hamas was an emphatic statement that Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Your _gee-had of none_ is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh, bomb'm.
> 
> How many times now?
Click to expand...


How many times have the Islamic terrorists provoked a response?

Why do you presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without a requisite beat-down?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?
> 
> That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?
> 
> I know. Too stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Israeli retaliation to acts of Islamic terrorism certainly has worked at suppressing further attacks. As much as you flail your Pom Poms for your Islamic terrorist heroes, the 2014 beat down delivered by Israel to your heroes in Hamas was an emphatic statement that Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Your _gee-had of none_ is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh, bomb'm.
> 
> How many times now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many times have the Islamic terrorists provoked a response?
> 
> Why do you presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without a requisite beat-down?
Click to expand...

Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?
> 
> That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?
> 
> I know. Too stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Israeli retaliation to acts of Islamic terrorism certainly has worked at suppressing further attacks. As much as you flail your Pom Poms for your Islamic terrorist heroes, the 2014 beat down delivered by Israel to your heroes in Hamas was an emphatic statement that Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Your _gee-had of none_ is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh, bomb'm.
> 
> How many times now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many times have the Islamic terrorists provoked a response?
> 
> Why do you presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without a requisite beat-down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
Click to expand...


Why are you so befuddled?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel going to do besides duh bomb'm?
> 
> That hasn't worked for years. When are those dumb asses going to think of something that works?
> 
> I know. Too stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Israeli retaliation to acts of Islamic terrorism certainly has worked at suppressing further attacks. As much as you flail your Pom Poms for your Islamic terrorist heroes, the 2014 beat down delivered by Israel to your heroes in Hamas was an emphatic statement that Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Your _gee-had of none_ is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh, bomb'm.
> 
> How many times now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many times have the Islamic terrorists provoked a response?
> 
> Why do you presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without a requisite beat-down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are you so befuddled?
Click to expand...

I'm not confused about anything.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?



What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?
Click to expand...

There was a ceasefire in 2014 and they were to agree on a long term truce. What happened to those besides Israel sitting around with its thumb up its ass.

It was simple. Both sides stop their aggression is what the Palestinians want. Why can't Israel agree to that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was a ceasefire in 2014 and they were to agree on a long term truce. What happened to those besides Israel sitting around with its thumb up its ass.
> 
> It was simple. Both sides stop their aggression is what the Palestinians want. Why can't Israel agree to that?
Click to expand...

It might have something to do with Islamic terrorists from Gaza'istan firing rockets at Israel, Fatah incitement and encouragement of islamo-bots toward knife attacks aimed at Israelis, islamo-tunneling, etc.

If you emerge from your coma, you can consider the above.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was a ceasefire in 2014 and they were to agree on a long term truce. What happened to those besides Israel sitting around with its thumb up its ass.
> 
> It was simple. Both sides stop their aggression is what the Palestinians want. Why can't Israel agree to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It might have something to do with Islamic terrorists from Gaza'istan firing rockets at Israel, Fatah incitement and encouragement of islamo-bots toward knife attacks aimed at Israelis, islamo-tunneling, etc.
> 
> If you emerge from your coma, you can consider the above.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, not that old terrorist canard again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was a ceasefire in 2014 and they were to agree on a long term truce. What happened to those besides Israel sitting around with its thumb up its ass.
> 
> It was simple. Both sides stop their aggression is what the Palestinians want. Why can't Israel agree to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It might have something to do with Islamic terrorists from Gaza'istan firing rockets at Israel, Fatah incitement and encouragement of islamo-bots toward knife attacks aimed at Israelis, islamo-tunneling, etc.
> 
> If you emerge from your coma, you can consider the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, not that old terrorist canard again.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, your usual retreat to sidestepping and deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel always whine about rockets but never does anything for a permanent solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was a ceasefire in 2014 and they were to agree on a long term truce. What happened to those besides Israel sitting around with its thumb up its ass.
> 
> It was simple. Both sides stop their aggression is what the Palestinians want. Why can't Israel agree to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It might have something to do with Islamic terrorists from Gaza'istan firing rockets at Israel, Fatah incitement and encouragement of islamo-bots toward knife attacks aimed at Israelis, islamo-tunneling, etc.
> 
> If you emerge from your coma, you can consider the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, not that old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, your usual retreat to sidestepping and deflection.
Click to expand...

You are the one calling names.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of permanent solution do you think would be best, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> There was a ceasefire in 2014 and they were to agree on a long term truce. What happened to those besides Israel sitting around with its thumb up its ass.
> 
> It was simple. Both sides stop their aggression is what the Palestinians want. Why can't Israel agree to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It might have something to do with Islamic terrorists from Gaza'istan firing rockets at Israel, Fatah incitement and encouragement of islamo-bots toward knife attacks aimed at Israelis, islamo-tunneling, etc.
> 
> If you emerge from your coma, you can consider the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, not that old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, your usual retreat to sidestepping and deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one calling names.
Click to expand...


You're befuddled by the facts. You should fix that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Deleted member 61768

Thank G_d Israel has the Jericho Missile system but the difference is they have not used it although Israel has had it since before the Yom Kippur War. So though Israel has had the ability to turn every hostile Arab Muslim capital into a smoking cinder since before the Yom Kippur War they have chosen NOT TO! Gee, I wonder if the Arab Muslims had that ability if they would have used it Israel? You Think? Israel use the "Knock" before they bomb a terror target if it is in a populated area along with, phone calls, and leaflet drops to try to keep from killing civilians while Arab Terrorists deliberately Target Israeli Civilians. 

I trained alongside both Israeli and Syrian Officers while I was in the U.S. Army.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian youth performing gee-had


----------



## P F Tinmore

*BDS activist raises $56,000 for vandalized Jewish cemetery*

Palestinian-American Linda Sarsour says she hopes crowdfunding effort will help bring ‘a sense of security’ to US Jews

A Palestinian-American activist who has voiced support for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement against Israel launched a crowdfunding campaign to raise money to help repair a St. Louis-area Jewish cemetery where at least 170 gravestones were toppled over the weekend.

*BDS activist raises $56,000 for vandalized Jewish cemetery*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salman Abu Sitta: The Geography of Occupation *

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - the geography of warring terrorists


----------



## louie888

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists gee-had'en the bejeesus out of each other.


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists gee-had'en the bejeesus out of each other.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists gee-had'en the bejeesus out of each other.
Click to expand...


I think spamming the board with the same pointless, cut and paste multiple times across multiple threads makes you look quite foolish.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists gee-had'en the bejeesus out of each other.


*Laila El-Haddad reporting on Gaza violence *
*Uploaded on May 18, 2007*

**


----------



## louie888

And your opinion is not my reality. But it's fun watching you work.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> And your opinion is not my reality. But it's fun watching you work.



Yep. All the same cut and paste photos dumped multiple times into multiple threads.


----------



## louie888

I was responding to the thread sweety. Try and follow along.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> I was responding to the thread sweety. Try and follow along.


Not by spamming.


----------



## louie888




----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


>



Yep. More mindless cutting and pasting of what you don't understand.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Malaka Mohammed*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Sheffield- IUG Twinning Project  *


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun *

**


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your opinion is not my reality. But it's fun watching you work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. All the same cut and paste photos dumped multiple times into multiple threads.
Click to expand...

But RGHT all the same which completely and totally DISPELLS YOUR ZIONIST BULLSHIT>>TOTALLY......Hollie>>>>>Just think how sophisticated,modern and  beautiful Palestine would be today if the Terrorist Zionist Hordes(THE SYNTHETICS) had Never been allowed into Palestine>>>Jews and Palestinians living in Peace and Harmony


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?

Facebook shuts down Fatah's terror promoting page - PMW Bulletins

*Facebook shuts down Fatah's terror promoting page*

*Page glorifies terrorist murderers,
promotes and endorses violence*

In 2016 alone, PMW reported on over 130 Fatah posts glorifying terror and murder 

Recent posts in 2017: 

glorified arch-terrorist Abu Jihad who planned attacks that killed 125 

promoted dying for “Palestine”: 
“The path to victory and to the certain return will be paved with our skulls”

endorsed violence: 
“I will live as a self-sacrificing fighter until [Palestine] returns”


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Walled Off Hotel, Bethlehem


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Walled Off Hotel, Bethlehem



Indeed. Maybe Hamas can build another tunnel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Walled Off Hotel, Bethlehem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Maybe Hamas can build another tunnel.
Click to expand...

 Terror tunnels  This is part of Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign. These tunnels were 0% used against civilians and 100% used against invading forces. They are legitimate defensive tools. There is nothing terrorist about them. Just more bullshit from the bullshit state of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Lara Kiswani*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They are legitimate defensive tools.



Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are legitimate defensive tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?
Click to expand...


The Israelis already bomb schools, hospitals and civilian residences claiming that they are military objectives now the Zionists want the Palestinian civilians to be crowded into tunnels to protect them.  These Hasbara maniacs are incorrigible.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are legitimate defensive tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Walled Off Hotel, Bethlehem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Maybe Hamas can build another tunnel.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terror tunnels  This is part of Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign. These tunnels were 0% used against civilians and 100% used against invading forces. They are legitimate defensive tools. There is nothing terrorist about them. Just more bullshit from the bullshit state of Israel.
Click to expand...


Indeed, another of your goofy conspiracy theories.

Such a paranoid little twit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are legitimate defensive tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign?
Click to expand...


What do Hamas tunnel rats have to do with your conspiracy theories?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are legitimate defensive tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do Hamas tunnel rats have to do with your conspiracy theories?
Click to expand...

Those are different tunnels for a different purpose.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are legitimate defensive tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do Hamas tunnel rats have to do with your conspiracy theories?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are different tunnels for a different purpose.
Click to expand...


That's a different conspiracy theory for a different conspiracy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are legitimate defensive tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will use them to protect their innocent women and children in future conflict.  That would be a really good defensive use of them.  Hmmm.  Why haven't they been used that way?  Do you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do Hamas tunnel rats have to do with your conspiracy theories?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are different tunnels for a different purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a different conspiracy theory for a different conspiracy.
Click to expand...

Not at all The tunnels into Egypt are for trade and the tunnels into Israel are for defense.


----------



## Shusha

The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!


They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
Click to expand...


What invading troops? The invaders were the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What invading troops? The invaders were the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, you are full of crap, as usual.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What invading troops? The invaders were the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, you are full of crap, as usual.
Click to expand...


No need to get angry with me because your conspiracy theory was a bust.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What invading troops? The invaders were the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, you are full of crap, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to get angry with me because your conspiracy theory was a bust.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy theory is a CIA propaganda tool.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What invading troops? The invaders were the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, you are full of crap, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to get angry with me because your conspiracy theory was a bust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conspiracy theory is a CIA propaganda tool.
Click to expand...


That's the same goofy slogan you have cut and pasted multiple times across multiple threads.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
Click to expand...


For clarity, when you say "invading troops" do you mean IDF soldiers infiltrating Gaza?  Or do you mean the presence of Jews on "Arab land"?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For clarity, when you say "invading troops" do you mean IDF soldiers infiltrating Gaza?  Or do you mean the presence of Jews on "Arab land"?
Click to expand...


The second option.  All of Israel is Arab land according to him.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting weirder and weirder while I watch.  The tunnels into Israel are for defense?!
> 
> 
> 
> They were only used against invading troops. What else could you call them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For clarity, when you say "invading troops" do you mean IDF soldiers infiltrating Gaza?  Or do you mean the presence of Jews on "Arab land"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The second option.  All of Israel is Arab land according to him.
Click to expand...

Why do you people always try to divide people into different categories?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Nour Freteikh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Malaka Mohammed*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Poetic Injustice: Writings on Resistance and Palestine by Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Janna Jihad Ayyad*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Breeding the next generation of Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Comedian Mo Amer Shared His Refugee Background With Eric Trump *

**


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult comedy show


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Maysoon Zayid*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Grassroots Governing in Bethlehem: A Talk with Mayor Vera Baboun *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*RAFEEF ZIADAH*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek speaks at the International Women's Strike - NYC - 8 March 2017 *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

We really need to NOT support a women's movement which has Lamis Deek, Linda Sarsour and Rasmea Odeh as figureheads and leaders.  

We need to support people like Raheel Raza, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Raquel Evita Saraswati, and Qanta Ahmed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> We really need to NOT support a women's movement which has Lamis Deek, Linda Sarsour and Rasmea Odeh as figureheads and leaders.


Why not?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We really need to NOT support a women's movement which has Lamis Deek, Linda Sarsour and Rasmea Odeh as figureheads and leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
Click to expand...


Because none of them are actually advocates for women's rights.  Because they are usurping a human rights cause in order to further their own political agendas.  Because their speech is riddled with hatred and demonization and anti-semitism.  Because we should never support someone who plants bombs in grocery stores to kill innocent people, regardless of their cause or what we think of their cause.  Because self-sacrifice in bringing violence to another is not beautiful.  Because the women's movement is a movement which demands that we treat each other better and not worse, which demands peace and equal treatment for all.  And these women DO.  NOT.  DO. THAT.  

Did you watch the video that you posted about Lamis Deek?  Did you listen to it?  I put on my new special enhancing earplugs so I could hear that one.  I heard what she said.  She is NOT supporting women.  She is NOT demanding the equality of women.  She is not demanding that the women of Gaza, and the children of Gaza are treated with dignity and respect, along with their Israeli sisters.  This is not feminism.  Its the same masculine toxicity that we endure everywhere, wrapped in a dress and a headscarf.  

These women are not heroes.  

Did you look at the video I posted about the Honor Diaries?  That is a women's movement I can support.  

The power of women is not found in Lamis Deek and her hate speech, the true power of women is found here:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Equality is hating Jews?

Interesting concept.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equality is hating Jews?
> 
> Interesting concept.
Click to expand...


Islamic fascists have no tolerance for equality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equality is hating Jews?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic fascists have no tolerance for equality.
Click to expand...

Equality is not the issue in Palestine like it is in some other places.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equality is hating Jews?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic fascists have no tolerance for equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equality is not the issue in Palestine like it is in some other places.
Click to expand...


Of course not.  Its easy enough to claim equality in a homogeneous population


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equality is hating Jews?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic fascists have no tolerance for equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equality is not the issue in Palestine like it is in some other places.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not.  Its easy enough to claim equality in a homogeneous population
Click to expand...

Everyone is equal under the law in Palestine. I don't know of any law based on religion or sex.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We really need to NOT support a women's movement which has Lamis Deek, Linda Sarsour and Rasmea Odeh as figureheads and leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because none of them are actually advocates for women's rights.  Because they are usurping a human rights cause in order to further their own political agendas.  Because their speech is riddled with hatred and demonization and anti-semitism.  Because we should never support someone who plants bombs in grocery stores to kill innocent people, regardless of their cause or what we think of their cause.  Because self-sacrifice in bringing violence to another is not beautiful.  Because the women's movement is a movement which demands that we treat each other better and not worse, which demands peace and equal treatment for all.  And these women DO.  NOT.  DO. THAT.
> 
> Did you watch the video that you posted about Lamis Deek?  Did you listen to it?  I put on my new special enhancing earplugs so I could hear that one.  I heard what she said.  She is NOT supporting women.  She is NOT demanding the equality of women.  She is not demanding that the women of Gaza, and the children of Gaza are treated with dignity and respect, along with their Israeli sisters.  This is not feminism.  Its the same masculine toxicity that we endure everywhere, wrapped in a dress and a headscarf.
> 
> These women are not heroes.
> 
> Did you look at the video I posted about the Honor Diaries?  That is a women's movement I can support.
> 
> The power of women is not found in Lamis Deek and her hate speech, the true power of women is found here:
Click to expand...

Rasmieh Yousef Odeh, the associate director of the Chicago-based Arab American Action Network. As a leader in the Arab-American community, Odeh developed the Arab Women's Committee, a female collective aimed at promoting leadership among Arab immigrant and Arab-American women.

Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equality is hating Jews?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic fascists have no tolerance for equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Equality is not the issue in Palestine like it is in some other places.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not.  Its easy enough to claim equality in a homogeneous population
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone is equal under the law in Palestine. I don't know of any law based on religion or sex.
Click to expand...


Again, its easy enough to claim equality in a homogeneous population.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We really need to NOT support a women's movement which has Lamis Deek, Linda Sarsour and Rasmea Odeh as figureheads and leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because none of them are actually advocates for women's rights.  Because they are usurping a human rights cause in order to further their own political agendas.  Because their speech is riddled with hatred and demonization and anti-semitism.  Because we should never support someone who plants bombs in grocery stores to kill innocent people, regardless of their cause or what we think of their cause.  Because self-sacrifice in bringing violence to another is not beautiful.  Because the women's movement is a movement which demands that we treat each other better and not worse, which demands peace and equal treatment for all.  And these women DO.  NOT.  DO. THAT.
> 
> Did you watch the video that you posted about Lamis Deek?  Did you listen to it?  I put on my new special enhancing earplugs so I could hear that one.  I heard what she said.  She is NOT supporting women.  She is NOT demanding the equality of women.  She is not demanding that the women of Gaza, and the children of Gaza are treated with dignity and respect, along with their Israeli sisters.  This is not feminism.  Its the same masculine toxicity that we endure everywhere, wrapped in a dress and a headscarf.
> 
> These women are not heroes.
> 
> Did you look at the video I posted about the Honor Diaries?  That is a women's movement I can support.
> 
> The power of women is not found in Lamis Deek and her hate speech, the true power of women is found here:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rasmieh Yousef Odeh, the associate director of the Chicago-based Arab American Action Network. As a leader in the Arab-American community, Odeh developed the Arab Women's Committee, a female collective aimed at promoting leadership among Arab immigrant and Arab-American women.
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh
Click to expand...


Is she teaching them to make bombs?  People who make bombs and plant them in grocery stores to kill innocent people are not heroes.  I will NOT support her or any organization which puts her in a leadership role.  She is not what women or feminists stand for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We really need to NOT support a women's movement which has Lamis Deek, Linda Sarsour and Rasmea Odeh as figureheads and leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because none of them are actually advocates for women's rights.  Because they are usurping a human rights cause in order to further their own political agendas.  Because their speech is riddled with hatred and demonization and anti-semitism.  Because we should never support someone who plants bombs in grocery stores to kill innocent people, regardless of their cause or what we think of their cause.  Because self-sacrifice in bringing violence to another is not beautiful.  Because the women's movement is a movement which demands that we treat each other better and not worse, which demands peace and equal treatment for all.  And these women DO.  NOT.  DO. THAT.
> 
> Did you watch the video that you posted about Lamis Deek?  Did you listen to it?  I put on my new special enhancing earplugs so I could hear that one.  I heard what she said.  She is NOT supporting women.  She is NOT demanding the equality of women.  She is not demanding that the women of Gaza, and the children of Gaza are treated with dignity and respect, along with their Israeli sisters.  This is not feminism.  Its the same masculine toxicity that we endure everywhere, wrapped in a dress and a headscarf.
> 
> These women are not heroes.
> 
> Did you look at the video I posted about the Honor Diaries?  That is a women's movement I can support.
> 
> The power of women is not found in Lamis Deek and her hate speech, the true power of women is found here:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rasmieh Yousef Odeh, the associate director of the Chicago-based Arab American Action Network. As a leader in the Arab-American community, Odeh developed the Arab Women's Committee, a female collective aimed at promoting leadership among Arab immigrant and Arab-American women.
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is she teaching them to make bombs?  People who make bombs and plant them in grocery stores to kill innocent people are not heroes.  I will NOT support her or any organization which puts her in a leadership role.  She is not what women or feminists stand for.
Click to expand...

Now you are just blowing shit.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Now you are just blowing shit.



Translation:  I have no reasoned argument to present.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just blowing shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  I have no reasoned argument to present.
Click to expand...

You're right. I have no argument for shit.


----------



## Shusha

Oh please.   Are you trying to argue that Odeh is innocent or is justified?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Oh please.   Are you trying to argue that Odeh is innocent or is justified?


You only know the Israeli propaganda version.

After 10 years in prison, Odeh was released through a prisoner exchange, subsequently testifying before a United Nations committee about the physical and psychological torture she says she underwent in Israeli custody, including sexual abuse by her interrogators in front of her father. She has denied any role in the bombing and maintains that a confession she signed was forced.

This treatment is not unusual. Israel regularly uses administrative detention to hold Palestinians without charge for extended periods of time. In its most recent report on human rights, published earlier this year, Amnesty International reported that "torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife and was committed with impunity."

Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.   Are you trying to argue that Odeh is innocent or is justified?
> 
> 
> 
> You only know the Israeli propaganda version.
> 
> After 10 years in prison, Odeh was released through a prisoner exchange, subsequently testifying before a United Nations committee about the physical and psychological torture she says she underwent in Israeli custody, including sexual abuse by her interrogators in front of her father. She has denied any role in the bombing and maintains that a confession she signed was forced.
> 
> This treatment is not unusual. Israel regularly uses administrative detention to hold Palestinians without charge for extended periods of time. In its most recent report on human rights, published earlier this year, Amnesty International reported that "torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife and was committed with impunity."
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh​
Click to expand...



You didn't answer my question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.   Are you trying to argue that Odeh is innocent or is justified?
> 
> 
> 
> You only know the Israeli propaganda version.
> 
> After 10 years in prison, Odeh was released through a prisoner exchange, subsequently testifying before a United Nations committee about the physical and psychological torture she says she underwent in Israeli custody, including sexual abuse by her interrogators in front of her father. She has denied any role in the bombing and maintains that a confession she signed was forced.
> 
> This treatment is not unusual. Israel regularly uses administrative detention to hold Palestinians without charge for extended periods of time. In its most recent report on human rights, published earlier this year, Amnesty International reported that "torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife and was committed with impunity."
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer my question.
Click to expand...

Yes I did. the conviction was bogus.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.   Are you trying to argue that Odeh is innocent or is justified?
> 
> 
> 
> You only know the Israeli propaganda version.
> 
> After 10 years in prison, Odeh was released through a prisoner exchange, subsequently testifying before a United Nations committee about the physical and psychological torture she says she underwent in Israeli custody, including sexual abuse by her interrogators in front of her father. She has denied any role in the bombing and maintains that a confession she signed was forced.
> 
> This treatment is not unusual. Israel regularly uses administrative detention to hold Palestinians without charge for extended periods of time. In its most recent report on human rights, published earlier this year, Amnesty International reported that "torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife and was committed with impunity."
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace: We stand in solidarity with Rasmieh Yousef Odeh​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I did. the conviction was bogus.
Click to expand...


A common complaint among the conspiracy theorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Malaka Mohammed*

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2017-03/malaka_for_podcast.mp3


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rosary Sisters Catholic High School in Jerusalem, Palestine *

**


----------



## Hollie

A sister of the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist occupation of Gaza


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian Terrorist Rasmea Odeh to Be Deported From U.S. Under Plea Deal*

Palestinian Terrorist Rasmea Odeh to Be Deported From U.S. Under Plea Deal

A Palestinian terrorist who was convicted of killing two university students in a terrorist attack in Jerusalem accepted a plea deal that will force her to leave the United States, her legal representatives announced Thursday.



A win is still a win when an Islamic terrorist gets the boot back to their Islamic paradise. For all the whining and complaining done by these lowlifes, they sure do everything they can to exploit the advantages of life in the _Great Satan_™

I would have preferred lengthy jail time for this waste of oxygen. But the greatest punishment / humiliation is probably that she will be relegated to an existence among her fellow lowlifes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Brave IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) @1:36


----------



## Hollie

Brave Islamic terrorists killing Pal'istanians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Brave Islamic terrorists killing Pal'istanians


This is too fucking funny. There is a gunfight and people are standing around in the street watching like it is a film set.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists have often used schools to wage war from.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Women in Gaza belong in their Shame Sacks.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Did they build a bomb shelter into the school?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Women in Gaza belong in their Shame Sacks.


BTW, when women lawyers were told they had to wear a hijab in court they all said no so it didn't happen. The same for many other rules. They don't happen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Women in Gaza belong in their Shame Sacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, when women lawyers were told they had to wear a hijab in court they all said no so it didn't happen. The same for many other rules. They don't happen.
Click to expand...


".... because I say so"


----------



## Hollie

New Islamic terrorist'istan, same as the old isamic terrorist'istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Poetry night for retrograde Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud: My Father Was A Freedom Fighter - Gaza's Untold Story*

**


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ramzy Baroud: My Father Was A Freedom Fighter - Gaza's Untold Story*
> 
> **


Only 1Hr 59min?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ramzy Baroud: My Father Was A Freedom Fighter - Gaza's Untold Story*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Only 1Hr 59min?
Click to expand...

A Palestinian story not told by Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Another Palestinian story not told by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

State of failure and incompetence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> State of failure and incompetence


Good discussion, thanks. It would be more interesting with a more diverse panel. The author states that he gets much information from Dennis Roth and Aaron Davis Miller. Both of these are pro Israel so his information is flawed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> State of failure and incompetence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good discussion, thanks. It would be more interesting with a more diverse panel. The author states that he gets much information from Dennis Roth and Aaron Davis Miller. Both of these are pro Israel so his information is flawed.
Click to expand...


Not to offend your tender sensibilities but your bellicose pronouncements carry with them a lot of preconceptions. 

Your silly "... because I say so...", spam is duly noted and ignored


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> State of failure and incompetence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good discussion, thanks. It would be more interesting with a more diverse panel. The author states that he gets much information from Dennis Roth and Aaron Davis Miller. Both of these are pro Israel so his information is flawed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not to offend your tender sensibilities but your bellicose pronouncements carry with them a lot of preconceptions.
> 
> Your silly "... because I say so...", spam is duly noted and ignored
Click to expand...

He is right in his assessment that the "Palestinian leadership" has failed the Palestinians. What he does not say is that the Palestinian leadership has been foreign appointed oligarchs whose corruption and "incompetence" was built into those appointments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> State of failure and incompetence


It was said in the beginning that everyone has rights but throughout the remainder of the talks the rights of the Palestinians were not mentioned.

It was also mentioned that all states have the right and responsibility to defend themselves. Here again the Palestinians right to defend themselves was not mentioned.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> State of failure and incompetence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was said in the beginning that everyone has rights but throughout the remainder of the talks the rights of the Palestinians were not mentioned.
> 
> It was also mentioned that all states have the right and responsibility to defend themselves. Here again the Palestinians right to defend themselves was not mentioned.
Click to expand...

You confuse the "rights" of Islamic terrorists as an entitlement toward acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.

Thank you for acknowledging the rights shared by Israel and others to defend themselves from Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> State of failure and incompetence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was said in the beginning that everyone has rights but throughout the remainder of the talks the rights of the Palestinians were not mentioned.
> 
> It was also mentioned that all states have the right and responsibility to defend themselves. Here again the Palestinians right to defend themselves was not mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You confuse the "rights" of Islamic terrorists as an entitlement toward acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.
> 
> Thank you for acknowledging the rights shared by Israel and others to defend themselves from Islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

Is playing the terrorist card all you have?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Two Palestinians meet to buy one pair of shoes.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> State of failure and incompetence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was said in the beginning that everyone has rights but throughout the remainder of the talks the rights of the Palestinians were not mentioned.
> 
> It was also mentioned that all states have the right and responsibility to defend themselves. Here again the Palestinians right to defend themselves was not mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You confuse the "rights" of Islamic terrorists as an entitlement toward acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.
> 
> Thank you for acknowledging the rights shared by Israel and others to defend themselves from Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card all you have?
Click to expand...


Is cutting and pasting the same piffle all you have?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Professor at Oxford University, *Karma Nabulsi*, won the prestigious Inspiring Leader Award at the Guardian University Awards 2017 in London last night.

British-Palestinian wins Guardian leadership award


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cultist wins prestigious "Death Cult Mother of the Year" award.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hala Alyan*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist poetry


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Natalie Tahhan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *

Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.

More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).

- See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor



Such nonsense. They changed nothing in their Death Cult Charter.

Yeah, you gotta love the Islamic terrorists in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan with their silly pronouncements. But hey, they're just keepin' it medieval for Muhammud (swish), and they're droppin' the pimp talk straight up bad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such nonsense. They changed nothing in their Death Cult Charter.
> 
> Yeah, you gotta love the Islamic terrorists in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan with their silly pronouncements. But hey, they're just keepin' it medieval for Muhammud (swish), and they're droppin' the pimp talk straight up bad.
Click to expand...

They took out the antisemitic stuff that Israel's proponents always bitched about. So what is your bitch now?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor




I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They took out the antisemitic stuff that Israel's proponents always bitched about. So what is your bitch now?



No, they didn't.  They just put a pretty "zionist" dress on it.  Its like saying it is illegal to rape women, but its permissible to rape wives and daughters.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such nonsense. They changed nothing in their Death Cult Charter.
> 
> Yeah, you gotta love the Islamic terrorists in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan with their silly pronouncements. But hey, they're just keepin' it medieval for Muhammud (swish), and they're droppin' the pimp talk straight up bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They took out the antisemitic stuff that Israel's proponents always bitched about. So what is your bitch now?
Click to expand...


Oh, I don't know, maybe that the Death Cultists haven't changed a single element that defines them as hyper-religious / Jew hating misfits.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

Where did you get all that?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get all that?
Click to expand...


From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get all that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.
Click to expand...

Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get all that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.
Click to expand...


I did get a chuckle from the nonsense that was a part of the Death Cult's charter. 

"...repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9)"

I'm guessing that people like you simply choose to ignore the intolerance, immoderation, and imposition of oppression based upon religion that defines the Islamist world.

Can you truly read the putrid bile of the Hamas charter and so sweepingly ignore the reality of Islamic fascism?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get all that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.
Click to expand...



Where do they say they grant Jewish rights to national self-expression?  Bring it if it exists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get all that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did get a chuckle from the nonsense that was a part of the Death Cult's charter.
> 
> "...repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9)"
> 
> I'm guessing that people like you simply choose to ignore the intolerance, immoderation, and imposition of oppression based upon religion that defines the Islamist world.
> 
> Can you truly read the putrid bile of the Hamas charter and so sweepingly ignore the reality of Islamic fascism?
Click to expand...

I don't understand your rant. Where do you get that stuff?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor *
> 
> Most commentary will likely focus on this article (19) which is less interesting to other aspects of the document, as it merely puts in writing what has been said by Hamas leaders for many years in one form or another, while getting rid of the anti-Jewish and freemasonry references that were in its 1988 charter, when the movement first launched, and which its critics loved to attack it for.
> 
> More interesting in my reading is how the document appears very conscious of regional and international trends (of sectarianism and “war on terror”/ islamophobia) and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9). It extrapolates further on this in articles 15 and 16 to make a clear distinction between Zionism and Judaism, emphasizing: the non-essentialist religious basis of its struggle (i.e. it opposes “Zionists” and “the Zionist project” and “all who attempt to aggress the Palestinian people, defile its rights, and occupy its lands irrespective of religion, nationality or identity”–not “Jews qua Jews”) (15); the European basis of anti-semitism (16); and Hamas’ rejection of any oppression based on national, religious or sectarian lines (16).
> 
> - See more at: Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get all that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where do they say they grant Jewish rights to national self-expression?  Bring it if it exists.
Click to expand...

They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Female students from Gaza develop super strong cement*

Four female students from the Islamic University of Gaza have succeeded in creating a brand new type of cement made from discarded materials like broken glass.

“The final product is an environmentally friendly cement which is more than twice as strong as normal cement,” said one of the students.







Female students from Gaza develop super strong cement


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Khaled*

**


----------



## yiostheoy

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

spam bot.

ignore list.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.



Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
Click to expand...

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
Click to expand...


There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to how you see this as progress.  It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression.  In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get all that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article you posted.  If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did get a chuckle from the nonsense that was a part of the Death Cult's charter.
> 
> "...repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9)"
> 
> I'm guessing that people like you simply choose to ignore the intolerance, immoderation, and imposition of oppression based upon religion that defines the Islamist world.
> 
> Can you truly read the putrid bile of the Hamas charter and so sweepingly ignore the reality of Islamic fascism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand your rant. Where do you get that stuff?
Click to expand...


I was certain you would scurry off.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
Click to expand...


I'm guessing that people like you simply choose to ignore the intolerance, immoderation, and imposition of oppression based upon religion that defines the Islamist world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".
Click to expand...

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...


I have no reason to believe you know any "Pal'istanians".

Secondly, it is the Islamic terrorists in Hamas who "govern" the retrograde Islamic terrorist enclave called Gaza'istan. 

It was arabs-moslems posing as Pal'istanians who elected Hamas into office. Your taqiyya needs a shiny new veneer of _dismissed as bunk._


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...


Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights.  There are no new ideas there.  They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist.  Meaning hasn't changed.

Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights.  There are no new ideas there.  They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist.  Meaning hasn't changed.
> 
> Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.
Click to expand...

Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?

Good question. Look it up and post some links.


----------



## fanger

The Hamas charter is simply  that of a political party. It is not a state charter, or a declaration of statehood direction or a legally binding document on the State of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> 
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights.  There are no new ideas there.  They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist.  Meaning hasn't changed.
> 
> Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Good question. Look it up and post some links.
Click to expand...

When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean *the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.*

The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
• When population groups sharing a common existence* in their own region* are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, *or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;*

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Good question. Look it up and post some links.



Well, in point of fact they DO have those historical rights.  You DO live in the US, do you not?

But again, the Jewish people returning to their ancestral homeland are NOT colonial settlers.  The Jewish people originated on that land, they came from that land, they were removed from that land.  

You posted a video yesterday or the day before which whined that the Palestinians in the Diaspora were not being considered and that they must be.  The Jewish people in the Diapsora are no different.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?
> 
> 
> 
> and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship
> 
> Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights.  There are no new ideas there.  They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist.  Meaning hasn't changed.
> 
> Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Good question. Look it up and post some links.
Click to expand...

Yes, you should do that.  The Ottoman Turks were the colonial settlers who invaded and colonized the geographic area you falsely believe to be your invented "country of Pally'land".


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean *the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.*
> 
> The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
> • When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;



The Jewish people are not an alien power.  They are an indigenous peoples who have the exact same rights to sovereignty over the region.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean *the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.*
> 
> The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
> • When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not an alien power.  They are an indigenous peoples who have the exact same rights to sovereignty over the region.
Click to expand...


The Zionists were Europeans, they were not indigenous to Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>



Also, from your link:

_When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

_When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
Click to expand...


Well no.  The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe.  They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe,  not Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well no.  The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe.  They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe,  not Palestine.
Click to expand...


Well, similarly, the Turk invaders and the European xtian Crusaders were colonists planning to evict the competing religions. Your phony outrage is meant to appeal to your Jew hatreds while ignoring the true colonists / invaders.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean *the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.*
> 
> The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
> • When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not an alien power.  They are an indigenous peoples who have the exact same rights to sovereignty over the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists were Europeans, they were not indigenous to Palestine.
Click to expand...

The xtian Crusaders were European. That might suggest they were invaders, not indigenous to your invented "country of Pally'land"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.


Links?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well no.  The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe.  They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe,  not Palestine.
Click to expand...


The Jewish homeland was never Europe with its pogroms and blood libels and inquisitions and holocausts.  And even here in America, which Jews called the "goldene medina" (golden country), the Italian-American hoodlums in Bensonhurst told my dad,  "Go back to Palestine!"


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Don't be daft.  IF it applies to one group, it applies equally to the other.  That was my point. 

But if you really need proof that resolutions support the rights of the Jewish people to self-determination start with this one, which the Palestinians haven't managed to achieve yet, after a hundred years:

_The General Assembly_,

_Acting_ in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,

1. _Decides_ that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;

2. _Decides_ to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.


Now, don't waste our time with such silly requests for links.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to  Self-Determination</b>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also, from your link:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:
> 
> _When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well no.  The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe.  They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe,  not Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish homeland was never Europe with its pogroms and blood libels and inquisitions and holocausts.  And even here in America, which Jews called the "goldene medina" (golden country), the Italian-American hoodlums in Bensonhurst told my dad,  "Go back to Palestine!"
Click to expand...


Protestants and Catholics in Europe were subject to blood libels, pogroms and inquisitions depending on where they lived. They remained European, just as Europeans that practiced Judaism. Europeans did not have a homeland in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Now, don't waste our time with such silly requests for links.


I asked because I knew would come back empty handed.

Now you are just blowing smoke so you could have the last word.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lubna Masarwa


----------



## Hollie

Another Pallywood Productions Studios Propaganda stunt?

The last one was a flaming disaster for the flotilla'ists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi *

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab Moslem Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cultists - a Time to Celebrate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Shadia Mansour*


----------



## Hollie

Splodey Dope


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Splodey Dope


This dumbfuck doesn't give any context.

*Gaza Children in Israeli Hospital After Drone Attack *


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist hugger just aches for dead civilians to placate his passion for Jew hating.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The symbol of Arab-Moslem incompetence and child exploitation.

I bring you, Shirley Temper


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Teenager Being Denied a Visa*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Teenager Being Denied a Visa*



The will of Allah!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Youngest Arab-Moslem terrorist?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza graduate rebuilds lost libraries – one book at a time*

*




*

Abu Toha, an English literature graduate from Gaza, has launched a campaign to bring libraries back to Gaza after over half were destroyed or closed during the 2014 war.

“Freedom is a state of mind… with books, you’re liberating yourself by living in an imaginary world where there are no boundaries ... If I choose to be free, I can be free through my writing, through speaking," Toha told Journalists.

A 2016 study undertaken by the Palestinian Museum discovered that of the 41 libraries previously in Gaza, 21 have closed and seven were completely leveled in the 2014 Israeli offensive.

*Gaza graduate rebuilds lost libraries - one book at a time*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza graduate rebuilds lost libraries – one book at a time*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Abu Toha, an English literature graduate from Gaza, has launched a campaign to bring libraries back to Gaza after over half were destroyed or closed during the 2014 war.
> 
> “Freedom is a state of mind… with books, you’re liberating yourself by living in an imaginary world where there are no boundaries ... If I choose to be free, I can be free through my writing, through speaking," Toha told Journalists.
> 
> A 2016 study undertaken by the Palestinian Museum discovered that of the 41 libraries previously in Gaza, 21 have closed and seven were completely leveled in the 2014 Israeli offensive.
> 
> *Gaza graduate rebuilds lost libraries - one book at a time*



There is something fishy about this article.  I can find no consensus about the actual number of libraries in Gaza.  Nor anything about this mysterious survey by the Palestinian Museum.  And nearly every search I conduct leads me back to a single source article.  All evidence that something is not right here and this is yet another attempt to blame Israel for something.  If someone can find me some links, that'd be great.  

Interestingly, I did find this article which claims on five children a week visit the public library in Gaza during the school year due to the heavy requirements of schoolwork and exams.  It claims that children are discouraged from reading for pleasure.  It points out a fundamental cause of the failure of libraries in Gaza is the general reluctance to read.

It is also worth noting that the Ministry of Culture apparently tracks all library books to ensure they contain nothing which is morally or religiously offensive.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hamas on governance.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Suheir Hammad*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

One on one with the retrograde Death Cultists


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Mansour*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Muslim women's voices smacked shut


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Muslim women's voices smacked shut


Is wife beating in Palestine any worse than it is here?

Links?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Is wife beating in Palestine any worse than it is here?



You tell me.  Is it worse for it to be explicitly endorsed by religion and law?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim women's voices smacked shut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is wife beating in Palestine any worse than it is here?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Is wife beating allowed here in the _Great Satan_™ ?

Iinks?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Laila El-Haddad*


----------



## Hollie

Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult


You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.

You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


You have only attempted to put a shiny new veneer of retrogression on the Death Cult. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have simply changed their tactics from encouraging Islamo-splodeydopes to self immolate in a crowd of Israeli citizens to street stabbing, running down with cars and building tunnels for terrorist attacks.

Islamic retrogression is still hurtling into the most base elements of societal dysfunction.

Flail your Pom Poms for the very worst elements that the 7th century arabia has been inflicted on humanity, understanding you and those like you have safely ensconced yourself in your Western lifestyle where you are protected from the very Death Cult you champion.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-moslem terrorists on the influence of a retrograde theocratic ideology.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have only attempted to put a shiny new veneer of retrogression on the Death Cult. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have simply changed their tactics from encouraging Islamo-splodeydopes to self immolate in a crowd of Israeli citizens to street stabbing, running down with cars and building tunnels for terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic retrogression is still hurtling into the most base elements of societal dysfunction.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for the very worst elements that the 7th century arabia has been inflicted on humanity, understanding you and those like you have safely ensconced yourself in your Western lifestyle where you are protected from the very Death Cult you champion.
Click to expand...

building tunnels for terrorist attacks.​
There you go again, selling Israel's terrorist propaganda crap.

Those tunnels were *never* used against civilians. They were only used against invading foreign troops. That is a perfectly legal defensive use. That is not terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have only attempted to put a shiny new veneer of retrogression on the Death Cult. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have simply changed their tactics from encouraging Islamo-splodeydopes to self immolate in a crowd of Israeli citizens to street stabbing, running down with cars and building tunnels for terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic retrogression is still hurtling into the most base elements of societal dysfunction.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for the very worst elements that the 7th century arabia has been inflicted on humanity, understanding you and those like you have safely ensconced yourself in your Western lifestyle where you are protected from the very Death Cult you champion.
Click to expand...

Occupations always have a problem with security.

It comes with the territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have only attempted to put a shiny new veneer of retrogression on the Death Cult. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have simply changed their tactics from encouraging Islamo-splodeydopes to self immolate in a crowd of Israeli citizens to street stabbing, running down with cars and building tunnels for terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic retrogression is still hurtling into the most base elements of societal dysfunction.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for the very worst elements that the 7th century arabia has been inflicted on humanity, understanding you and those like you have safely ensconced yourself in your Western lifestyle where you are protected from the very Death Cult you champion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> building tunnels for terrorist attacks.​
> There you go again, selling Israel's terrorist propaganda crap.
> 
> Those tunnels were *never* used against civilians. They were only used against invading foreign troops. That is a perfectly legal defensive use. That is not terrorism.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have only attempted to put a shiny new veneer of retrogression on the Death Cult. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have simply changed their tactics from encouraging Islamo-splodeydopes to self immolate in a crowd of Israeli citizens to street stabbing, running down with cars and building tunnels for terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic retrogression is still hurtling into the most base elements of societal dysfunction.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for the very worst elements that the 7th century arabia has been inflicted on humanity, understanding you and those like you have safely ensconced yourself in your Western lifestyle where you are protected from the very Death Cult you champion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> building tunnels for terrorist attacks.​
> There you go again, selling Israel's terrorist propaganda crap.
> 
> Those tunnels were *never* used against civilians. They were only used against invading foreign troops. That is a perfectly legal defensive use. That is not terrorism.
Click to expand...


There you go again, making pronouncements on legal matters you know nothing about. It's remarkable how you keyboard gee-hadees rattle on with your silly gee-had from the safety of the Great Satan™. I'd suggest you avoid dispensing advise on legal matters as your buffoonish legal briefs cause you legal wedgies. 

I find it comical that while you wannabes are flailing your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorist tunnel rats, your islamic terrorist heroes at the top of the gee-had pyramid scheme are getting rich on the supplies and materials used for islamo-tunnels... which are readily destroyed by both Israel and Egyptian forces. 

But hey, a few more dead islamic terrorists is doing the world a service.

I suppose, however, it's a vain expectation that your impotent gee-had will ever leave your basement?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breeding opportunities in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have all these old suicide bombing videos. However, the Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have only attempted to put a shiny new veneer of retrogression on the Death Cult. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have simply changed their tactics from encouraging Islamo-splodeydopes to self immolate in a crowd of Israeli citizens to street stabbing, running down with cars and building tunnels for terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic retrogression is still hurtling into the most base elements of societal dysfunction.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for the very worst elements that the 7th century arabia has been inflicted on humanity, understanding you and those like you have safely ensconced yourself in your Western lifestyle where you are protected from the very Death Cult you champion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorism has the result of dead islamic terrorists. That comes with the retrograde ideology of islamism. 

How's that working out for you stay-at-home wannabes?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You need to update your propaganda.



Actually, you need to update your facts.  Hamas suicide bombing plots foiled by Israel.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you need to update your facts.  Hamas suicide bombing plots foiled by Israel.
Click to expand...

Your Jewish lies from your Jewish sources are meaningless.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you need to update your facts.  Hamas suicide bombing plots foiled by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your Jewish lies from your Jewish sources are meaningless.
Click to expand...


Wrong thread for your usual cut and paste spam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashid Khalidi: Obama's Condemnation of Israeli Occupation Doesn't Match His Last 8 Years in Office *

**


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult and Islamic terrorist glorification of murder / suicide




Glorification of other people taking one for the gee-had. Sounds familiar as the Pom Pom flailing Islamic terrorist supporters are so quick to do... from behind the safety of the western keyboards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek speaks at the International Women's Strike - NYC - 8 March 2017 *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians in Gaza hold vigil for 44 killed in Egypt bombings*

Residents of Gaza have gathered in Gaza city to commemorate the tragic bombings in Egypt on Palm Sunday that killed at least 44 and injured over 100.

The Palestinian crowds lit candles, placed floral crosses and waved the Egyptian flag as a sign of solidarity.











Palestinians in Gaza hold vigil for 44 killed in Egypt bombings


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi*


----------



## Hollie

Meet Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Meet Hamas


Be careful. The boogyman will getcha.

The tunnels are a very effective part of Palestinian defense. Once the IDF came out of hiding in their tanks and airplanes they got their butt kicked. Even though they only experienced about 70 deaths their wounded numbered between 500 - 700. (depending on who you ask) Either way, that is a substantial number. That is why Israel freaked out about the tunnels.

BTW, there were no attacks on any civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Will Hamas Party Charter Accept a Two State Solution? *


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Hamas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful. The boogyman will getcha.
> 
> The tunnels are a very effective part of Palestinian defense. Once the IDF came out of hiding in their tanks and airplanes they got their butt kicked. Even though they only experienced about 70 deaths their wounded numbered between 500 - 700. (depending on who you ask) Either way, that is a substantial number. That is why Israel freaked out about the tunnels.
> 
> BTW, there were no attacks on any civilians.
Click to expand...


Be careful. Don't break a nail while flailing your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Huwaida Arraf: Holding Israel Accountable *


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems making excuses for their own incompetence


----------



## P F Tinmore

TEDxRamallah - Khaled Al Sabawi - Keeping Palestine Cool: A Different Kind of Underground Movement


----------



## P F Tinmore

TEDxRamallah - *Suad Amiry* - My work My Hobby. Simply look inside you never at others.


----------



## Hollie

Simply look inside you


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fida Qishta*

**


----------



## Hollie

Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?


Was the Nofal family in Gaza?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
Click to expand...


Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?
Click to expand...

You forget that the colonizers are the aggressors.

People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force against the people.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget that the colonizers are the aggressors.
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force against the people.
Click to expand...


The Jewish people didn't get colonized voluntarily either.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget that the colonizers are the aggressors.
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force against the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people didn't get colonized voluntarily either.
Click to expand...

What? Idiot!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget that the colonizers are the aggressors.
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force against the people.
Click to expand...


So, your answer is yes, the place _was_ used by Islamic terrorists to wage war. 

People do not allow themselves to be attacked by islamic terrorists voluntarily. There are consequences to acts of Islamic terrorism,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget that the colonizers are the aggressors.
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force against the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your answer is yes, the place _was_ used by Islamic terrorists to wage war.
> 
> People do not allow themselves to be attacked by islamic terrorists voluntarily. There are consequences to acts of Islamic terrorism,
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do the Hellfire Missiles fly when islamic terrorists require a beat down?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the Nofal family in Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was the place used by Islamic terrorists to wage war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget that the colonizers are the aggressors.
> 
> People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires military force against the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, your answer is yes, the place _was_ used by Islamic terrorists to wage war.
> 
> People do not allow themselves to be attacked by islamic terrorists voluntarily. There are consequences to acts of Islamic terrorism,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?
Click to expand...


Same old slogans. 

They come in handy when you're befuddled.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashid Khalidi*
Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Easter Eve in Gaza City*

Orthodox Christian worshippers hold a service on Easter Eve at the St. Porphyrios church in Gaza City, Palestine. Easter Eve is important for many Christians as the day after Good Friday and before Easter Sunday.







Easter Eve in Gaza City


----------



## Hollie

The purge is nearly complete.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The purge is nearly complete.


His first sentence was a lie. Should I believe the rest.

Wyizzit that *every* report like this come from Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purge is nearly complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His first sentence was a lie. Should I believe the rest.
> 
> Wyizzit that *every* report like this come from Israel?
Click to expand...


You're letting your Islamic terrorist biases shield you from the truth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purge is nearly complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His first sentence was a lie. Should I believe the rest.
> 
> Wyizzit that *every* report like this come from Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're letting your Islamic terrorist biases shield you from the truth.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purge is nearly complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His first sentence was a lie. Should I believe the rest.
> 
> Wyizzit that *every* report like this come from Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're letting your Islamic terrorist biases shield you from the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...

Trying on your islamo-dancing shoes?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


This is over 10 years old. Do you have something current?

BTW, this is from another Israeli hate site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is over 10 years old. Do you have something current?
> 
> BTW, this is from another Israeli hate site.
Click to expand...

indeed, the expulsion of non-Muhammedans has been a deliberate process just as it has been across the Islamist middle east. 

Indeed, your definition oh "hate site" includes any outlet critical of islamics and their fascist agenda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Walk the walk


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza Women Lead Local Water and Sanitation Project*

Om Ahmed is a role model for the women in her community. Not only is she highly influential, but she’s called the leader by her neighbors. It’s not hard to see why—this grandmother never stops. Each morning, she slips on her sneakers and her traditional embroidered dress and goes for a walk on the seashore. In the afternoons, she spends time with her grandsons. And in between, she’s leading a women’s initiative to bring health and hygiene to her water-scarce community.

*




*

Gaza Women Lead Local Water and Sanitation Project | ANERA


----------



## Hollie

Gaza women lead the gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

In support of the gee-had.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh look.  Another exploited child.  Shirley Temper's cousin.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  Another exploited child.  Shirley Temper's cousin.
Click to expand...


There are any number of issues that are really disturbing in connection with Islamic ideology and its attitudes / treatment of women and female children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*One of the largest dairy farms in West Bank converts cow dung into electricity*

Using heat, the cow waste produces methane and biogas to generate 380 kilowatt hours. Enough power for the farm and company which sells yogurt, milk and other dairy products across the West Bank.

This means no more energy bills, no more reliance upon Israeli power and no more power cuts for the family and their business.

"In the next phase, we are going to use another generator to produce 650 kilowatt hours, and over the long-term we will reach one megawatt hour, we could supply between 200 and 300 houses," said Magalsay.

One of the largest dairy farms in West Bank converts cow dung into electricity


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad

*Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*


Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others

You may recall the name Janna Jihad.

Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.



Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad
> 
> *Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*
> 
> 
> Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others
> 
> You may recall the name Janna Jihad.
> 
> Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.


Reporting Israel's crimes is child abuse?

Interesting concept.

What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda site?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad
> 
> *Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*
> 
> 
> Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others
> 
> You may recall the name Janna Jihad.
> 
> Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Reporting Israel's crimes is child abuse?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda site?
Click to expand...


Such an angry convert. I suppose exploitation of young girls is something you find acceptable as it is an illness that afflicts the islamist psyche. And honestly, for those like you who are safely ensconced in the Great Satan ™, there is no downside for you. You can just sit back and urge others to do your Jew hating for you.


*Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine*

Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine

A 10-year-old Palestinian firebrand “journalist” who sent social media into a frenzy recently over her bravery for documenting Israeli “injustice” in Palestine can be unmasked as an anti-Israel propaganda tool  – a  child being used by a family of terrorists.

This murderous clan, responsible for a restaurant bombing that killed eight children, used a then seven year old Janna to demand for the murder of Israeli police officers in Jerusalem.

They have been exploiting the child for terror propaganda since she was just five.


Yep. Just another female child being abused by islamists.

Why not abuse a female child? Mo' (swish), the model for all Moslems, set the pattern of behavior that the modern, relevant world finds deplorable, except for the pious Islamist and goofy converts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad
> 
> *Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*
> 
> 
> Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others
> 
> You may recall the name Janna Jihad.
> 
> Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Reporting Israel's crimes is child abuse?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry convert. I suppose exploitation of young girls is something you find acceptable as it is an illness that afflicts the islamist psyche. And honestly, for those like you who are safely ensconced in the Great Satan ™, there is no downside for you. You can just sit back and urge others to do your Jew hating for you.
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine*
> 
> Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine
> 
> A 10-year-old Palestinian firebrand “journalist” who sent social media into a frenzy recently over her bravery for documenting Israeli “injustice” in Palestine can be unmasked as an anti-Israel propaganda tool  – a  child being used by a family of terrorists.
> 
> This murderous clan, responsible for a restaurant bombing that killed eight children, used a then seven year old Janna to demand for the murder of Israeli police officers in Jerusalem.
> 
> They have been exploiting the child for terror propaganda since she was just five.
> 
> 
> Yep. Just another female child being abused by islamists.
> 
> Why not abuse a female child? Mo' (swish), the model for all Moslems, set the pattern of behavior that the modern, relevant world finds deplorable, except for the pious Islamist and goofy converts.
Click to expand...

You are just pissed because this little girl is blowing the whistle on your crimes.

The more the merrier. The world is starting to wake up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad
> 
> *Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*
> 
> 
> Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others
> 
> You may recall the name Janna Jihad.
> 
> Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Reporting Israel's crimes is child abuse?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry convert. I suppose exploitation of young girls is something you find acceptable as it is an illness that afflicts the islamist psyche. And honestly, for those like you who are safely ensconced in the Great Satan ™, there is no downside for you. You can just sit back and urge others to do your Jew hating for you.
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine*
> 
> Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine
> 
> A 10-year-old Palestinian firebrand “journalist” who sent social media into a frenzy recently over her bravery for documenting Israeli “injustice” in Palestine can be unmasked as an anti-Israel propaganda tool  – a  child being used by a family of terrorists.
> 
> This murderous clan, responsible for a restaurant bombing that killed eight children, used a then seven year old Janna to demand for the murder of Israeli police officers in Jerusalem.
> 
> They have been exploiting the child for terror propaganda since she was just five.
> 
> 
> Yep. Just another female child being abused by islamists.
> 
> Why not abuse a female child? Mo' (swish), the model for all Moslems, set the pattern of behavior that the modern, relevant world finds deplorable, except for the pious Islamist and goofy converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just pissed because this little girl is blowing the whistle on your crimes.
> 
> The more the merrier. The world is starting to wake up.
Click to expand...


That's nonsense of course. The child is just one more victim of abuse that arabs-moslems and their convert Pom Pom flailers are all too willing to throw youngsters into.


----------



## Hollie

The Tamini Death Cultists are a family of murderers. 

Let the goofy converts flail their Pom Poms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Thousands gather in Netherlands for annual “Palestinians in Europe” conference*

THOUSANDS of Palestinians and Europeans have congregated in the Netherlands to celebrate a message of “hope and determination”.

Gathering in Rotterdam, the Netherlands’ second largest city, huge crowds came together under the slogan “100 years on, a victorious nation and unbreakable determination”.

This year marked the 15th successive Palestinian event in the Netherlands. Besides cultural celebrations and catch-ups, there were conferences dedicated to Palestinian prisoners, the siege of Gaza, illegal settlements, refugee camps and Palestinian children.

Thousands gather in Netherlands for annual “Palestinians in Europe” conference


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad
> 
> *Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*
> 
> 
> Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others
> 
> You may recall the name Janna Jihad.
> 
> Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Reporting Israel's crimes is child abuse?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry convert. I suppose exploitation of young girls is something you find acceptable as it is an illness that afflicts the islamist psyche. And honestly, for those like you who are safely ensconced in the Great Satan ™, there is no downside for you. You can just sit back and urge others to do your Jew hating for you.
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine*
> 
> Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine
> 
> A 10-year-old Palestinian firebrand “journalist” who sent social media into a frenzy recently over her bravery for documenting Israeli “injustice” in Palestine can be unmasked as an anti-Israel propaganda tool  – a  child being used by a family of terrorists.
> 
> This murderous clan, responsible for a restaurant bombing that killed eight children, used a then seven year old Janna to demand for the murder of Israeli police officers in Jerusalem.
> 
> They have been exploiting the child for terror propaganda since she was just five.
> 
> 
> Yep. Just another female child being abused by islamists.
> 
> Why not abuse a female child? Mo' (swish), the model for all Moslems, set the pattern of behavior that the modern, relevant world finds deplorable, except for the pious Islamist and goofy converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just pissed because this little girl is blowing the whistle on your crimes.
> 
> The more the merrier. The world is starting to wake up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nonsense of course. The child is just one more victim of abuse that arabs-moslems and their convert Pom Pom flailers are all too willing to throw youngsters into.
Click to expand...

What abuse? You are being vague.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Tamini Death Cultists are a family of murderers.
> 
> Let the goofy converts flail their Pom Poms.


It is not up to me how people resist the occupation. How people respond to the killing and destroying the lives of Palestinians can sometimes be in kind.

If Israel does not like it, perhaps they should end the occupation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Child Exploitation - 10-year old "Journalist" Janna Jihad
> 
> *Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad*
> 
> 
> Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others
> 
> You may recall the name Janna Jihad.
> 
> Janna is a member of the Tamimi clan from Nabi Saleh. Among the more infamous Tamimi members is Ahlam Tamimi, the woman who organized the Sbarro Pizza restaurant suicide bombing in 2001, and then broke out with a huge smile when she learned that more children actually were killed than she thought.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - very disturbing that child abuse is hailed as a means to promote Islamic gee-had. But we need to consider that the religions inventor and the "model for life" for Islamics set the pattern of behavior for abuse of young girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Reporting Israel's crimes is child abuse?
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda site?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry convert. I suppose exploitation of young girls is something you find acceptable as it is an illness that afflicts the islamist psyche. And honestly, for those like you who are safely ensconced in the Great Satan ™, there is no downside for you. You can just sit back and urge others to do your Jew hating for you.
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine*
> 
> Janna Jihad Unmasked: 10-Year-Old Media Darling Is a False Heroine
> 
> A 10-year-old Palestinian firebrand “journalist” who sent social media into a frenzy recently over her bravery for documenting Israeli “injustice” in Palestine can be unmasked as an anti-Israel propaganda tool  – a  child being used by a family of terrorists.
> 
> This murderous clan, responsible for a restaurant bombing that killed eight children, used a then seven year old Janna to demand for the murder of Israeli police officers in Jerusalem.
> 
> They have been exploiting the child for terror propaganda since she was just five.
> 
> 
> Yep. Just another female child being abused by islamists.
> 
> Why not abuse a female child? Mo' (swish), the model for all Moslems, set the pattern of behavior that the modern, relevant world finds deplorable, except for the pious Islamist and goofy converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just pissed because this little girl is blowing the whistle on your crimes.
> 
> The more the merrier. The world is starting to wake up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nonsense of course. The child is just one more victim of abuse that arabs-moslems and their convert Pom Pom flailers are all too willing to throw youngsters into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What abuse? You are being vague.
Click to expand...


The abuse. You are dim.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Tamini Death Cultists are a family of murderers.
> 
> Let the goofy converts flail their Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not up to me how people resist the occupation. How people respond to the killing and destroying the lives of Palestinians can sometimes be in kind.
> 
> If Israel does not like it, perhaps they should end the occupation.
Click to expand...


Oh, come on. Flail your Pom Poms. Celebrate your heroes who you urge to commit suicide / mass murder.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale *

This is special: On Sunday afternoon at Yale, Omar Barghouti, a leader of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign (BDS), will receive a Gandhi peace award, along with Ralph Nader. At the last minute Barghouti was allowed by an Israeli judge to travel to the States.

Omar Barghouti is a Palestinian human rights defender. He is a co-founder of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) and the Palestinian-led Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. He holds bachelors and master’s degrees in Electrical Engineering from Columbia University, NY, and a master’s in Philosophy (ethics) from Tel Aviv University. He is the author of, BDS: The Global Struggle for Palestinian Rights . His commentaries and interviews have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Financial Times, the Guardian, Politico, and on Bloomberg TV, MSNBC, CNN, BBC, among others. He spoke at Yale University in 2013.

See more at: Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale *
> 
> This is special: On Sunday afternoon at Yale, Omar Barghouti, a leader of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign (BDS), will receive a Gandhi peace award, along with Ralph Nader. At the last minute Barghouti was allowed by an Israeli judge to travel to the States.
> 
> Omar Barghouti is a Palestinian human rights defender. He is a co-founder of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) and the Palestinian-led Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. He holds bachelors and master’s degrees in Electrical Engineering from Columbia University, NY, and a master’s in Philosophy (ethics) from Tel Aviv University. He is the author of, BDS: The Global Struggle for Palestinian Rights . His commentaries and interviews have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Financial Times, the Guardian, Politico, and on Bloomberg TV, MSNBC, CNN, BBC, among others. He spoke at Yale University in 2013.
> 
> See more at: Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale



He's Qatari. 

But hey, like Arafat and others, if there's money to be swindled by exploiting the "Pal'istanian" label along with screeching out Jooooo hatreds, let the fraud continue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale *
> 
> This is special: On Sunday afternoon at Yale, Omar Barghouti, a leader of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign (BDS), will receive a Gandhi peace award, along with Ralph Nader. At the last minute Barghouti was allowed by an Israeli judge to travel to the States.
> 
> Omar Barghouti is a Palestinian human rights defender. He is a co-founder of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) and the Palestinian-led Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. He holds bachelors and master’s degrees in Electrical Engineering from Columbia University, NY, and a master’s in Philosophy (ethics) from Tel Aviv University. He is the author of, BDS: The Global Struggle for Palestinian Rights . His commentaries and interviews have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Financial Times, the Guardian, Politico, and on Bloomberg TV, MSNBC, CNN, BBC, among others. He spoke at Yale University in 2013.
> 
> See more at: Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's Qatari.
> 
> But hey, like Arafat and others, if there's money to be swindled by exploiting the "Pal'istanian" label along with screeching out Jooooo hatreds, let the fraud continue.
Click to expand...

Omar Barghouti hates Jews?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale *
> 
> This is special: On Sunday afternoon at Yale, Omar Barghouti, a leader of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign (BDS), will receive a Gandhi peace award, along with Ralph Nader. At the last minute Barghouti was allowed by an Israeli judge to travel to the States.
> 
> Omar Barghouti is a Palestinian human rights defender. He is a co-founder of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) and the Palestinian-led Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. He holds bachelors and master’s degrees in Electrical Engineering from Columbia University, NY, and a master’s in Philosophy (ethics) from Tel Aviv University. He is the author of, BDS: The Global Struggle for Palestinian Rights . His commentaries and interviews have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Financial Times, the Guardian, Politico, and on Bloomberg TV, MSNBC, CNN, BBC, among others. He spoke at Yale University in 2013.
> 
> See more at: Freed to travel, Barghouti will receive Gandhi award on Sunday at Yale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's Qatari.
> 
> But hey, like Arafat and others, if there's money to be swindled by exploiting the "Pal'istanian" label along with screeching out Jooooo hatreds, let the fraud continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Omar Barghouti hates Jews?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


A clueless convert?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah gives the classic interview.*

Ali Abunimah was being interviewed on a corporate media news show. (I forget which one. It doesn't matter. They all read from the same script.) The host started out asking about rockets, terrorism, blah, blah, blah like they always do.

Ali's response:

"Before we discuss Israel's talking points, let me tell you what is happening in Gaza."


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *One of the largest dairy farms in West Bank converts cow dung into electricity*
> 
> Using heat, the cow waste produces methane and biogas to generate 380 kilowatt hours. Enough power for the farm and company which sells yogurt, milk and other dairy products across the West Bank.
> 
> This means no more energy bills, no more reliance upon Israeli power and no more power cuts for the family and their business.
> 
> "In the next phase, we are going to use another generator to produce 650 kilowatt hours, and over the long-term we will reach one megawatt hour, we could supply between 200 and 300 houses," said Magalsay.
> 
> One of the largest dairy farms in West Bank converts cow dung into electricity




Palestinian self-sufficiency?!  Hallelujah!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> “100 years on, a victorious nation and unbreakable determination”.



You want to see unbreakable determination?!  Witness the Jewish people.  Three thousand years on.  And the only indigenous peoples to regain sovereignty over lost historical and ancestral lands.  That's unbreakable.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah gives the classic interview.*
> 
> Ali Abunimah was being interviewed on a corporate media news show. (I forget which one. It doesn't matter. They all read from the same script.) The host started out asking about rockets, terrorism, blah, blah, blah like they always do.
> 
> Ali's response:
> 
> "Before we discuss Israel's talking points, let me tell you what is happening in Gaza."



Oh, yeah. Islamic terrorism. How dare anyone mention Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah gives the classic interview.*
> 
> Ali Abunimah was being interviewed on a corporate media news show. (I forget which one. It doesn't matter. They all read from the same script.) The host started out asking about rockets, terrorism, blah, blah, blah like they always do.
> 
> Ali's response:
> 
> "Before we discuss Israel's talking points, let me tell you what is happening in Gaza."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah. Islamic terrorism. How dare anyone mention Islamic terrorism.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is one of Israel's talking points.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah gives the classic interview.*
> 
> Ali Abunimah was being interviewed on a corporate media news show. (I forget which one. It doesn't matter. They all read from the same script.) The host started out asking about rockets, terrorism, blah, blah, blah like they always do.
> 
> Ali's response:
> 
> "Before we discuss Israel's talking points, let me tell you what is happening in Gaza."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah. Islamic terrorism. How dare anyone mention Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, it is one of Israel's talking points.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you would like to ignore Islamic terrorism as corollary to islamist ideology.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So you post a speech by a dumbfuck Zionist stooge.

Notice this asshole did not mention Rachel Corrie.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a speech by a dumbfuck Zionist stooge.
> 
> Notice this asshole did not mention Rachel Corrie.
Click to expand...


I noticed that no one mentioned your damaged islamo-hurt feelings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a speech by a dumbfuck Zionist stooge.
> 
> Notice this asshole did not mention Rachel Corrie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I noticed that no one mentioned your damaged islamo-hurt feelings.
Click to expand...

No problem. I am used to Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a speech by a dumbfuck Zionist stooge.
> 
> Notice this asshole did not mention Rachel Corrie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I noticed that no one mentioned your damaged islamo-hurt feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No problem. I am used to Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


The one you invent to appease your tender islamo-hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So, where is your video about the thousands of Palestinian children killed by Israel?


----------



## Hollie

You can address Pal'istanian martyrs with your Islamic terrorist heroes in Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> You can address Pal'istanian martyrs with your Islamic terrorist heroes in Hamas.


Still doing your double standard thing.

1 July 2014

Muhammad Hussein Abu Khdeir, 16, of the Arab East Jerusalem suburb of Shuafat,_* forced into a car and murdered in apparent retaliation for the June 12 killing of three Israeli teenagers in the occupied West Bank.*_

8 July 2014

Hussein Yousef Hussein Karawe, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with five other children, when an IDF missile struck the home of alleged Hamas activist Odeh Ahmad Mohammad Kaware.*_

  Basem Salem Hussein Karawe, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with five other children, when an IDF missile struck the home of alleged Hamas activist Odeh Ahmad Mohammad Kaware.*_
  Mohammad Ali Faraj Karawe, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with five other children, when an IDF missile struck the home of alleged Hamas activist Odeh Ahmad Mohammad Kaware.*_
  Abdullah Hamed Karawe, 6, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with five other children, when an IDF missile struck the home of alleged Hamas activist Odeh Ahmad Mohammad Kaware.*_
  Kasem Jaber Adwan Karawe, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with five other children, when an IDF missile struck the home of alleged Hamas activist Odeh Ahmad Mohammad Kaware.*_
  Seraj Abed al-Aal, 8, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with five other children, when an IDF missile struck the home of alleged Hamas activist Odeh Ahmad Mohammad Kaware.*_
  Ahmad Nael Mahdi, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF air attack on his Sheikh Radwan neighborhood.*_
9 July 2014

Mohammad Ibrahim Fayeq al-Masri, 14, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his family home.*_

  Mohammad Iyad Salem Areef, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed when an IDF bomb struck his Al-Shujaiyah neighborhood. He was playing outside with his older brother when the attack took place.*_
  Amir Iyad Salem Areef, 11, of Gaza City, _*killed when an IDF bomb struck his Al-Shujaiyah neighborhood. He was playing outside with his younger brother when the attack took place.*_
  Mohammad Fakher Mustafa Jamal Malaka, 3, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with his mother, by an IDF bomb that struck the Zeitoun neighborhood.*_
  Mohammad Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 1, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.*_
  Nidal Khalaf Odeh al-Nawasra, 3, of Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza, _*killed in an IDF missile strike on his home.*_
  Ranim Jawdat Abdul-Karim Abdul-Ghafoor, 1, of Al-Qarara, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when an IDF missile hit her home.*_
10 July 2014

Mousa Mohammad Taher al-Astal, 14, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF missile while watching the World Cup with friends on the beach.*_

  Suleiman Saleem Mousa al-Astal, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF missile while watching the World Cup with friends on the beach.*_
  Abdullah Ramadan Abu Ghazal, 5, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed instantly upon being hit with shrapnel fragments from an IDF missile that exploded near his home. *_
11 July 2014

Nour Marwan an-Ajdi, 10, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when the roof of her home collapsed from the impact of an IDF rocket that struck a nearby home.*_

  Sahar Salman Abu Namous, 3, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed when she was hit by shrapnel from an explosion near her home.*_
  Bassam Abul-Rahman Khattab, 6, of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF drone strike that targeted his home. *_
12 July 2014

Anas Yousef Qandil, 17, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF drone strike that targeted an area where he was sitting with friends and family.*_

  Mohammad Issam al-Batsh, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home. *_
  Manar Majed al-Batsh, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit her family’s home.*_
  Anas Ala’ al-Batsh, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home. *_
  Qusai Issam al-Batsh, 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed along with 16 family members in an IDF airstrike that hit his family’s home.*_
  Mohammad Arif, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF air strike.*_
  Qassem Jaber Odah, 16, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip.
13 July 2014

Mo’ayyad al-‘Araj, 3, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died in the hospital several hours after being hit with shrapnel from an IDF drone strike.*_

  Husam Ibrahim Najjar, 14, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF drone strike on his home while he was sleeping. *_
14 July 2014

Ziad Maher an-Najjar, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF missile while he was driving.*_

  Sara Omar Sheikh al-Eid, 4, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her home.*_
  Kamal Atef Yousef Abu Taha, 16, of Khan Younis, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
16 July 2014

Ibrahim Ramadan Abu Doqqa, 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed when an IDF missile struck the car his family was driving in.*_

  Ahed Atef Bakr, 10, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with three other children, by artillery fire from an Israeli naval ship. The children were playing on the beach at the time of the incident.*_
  Zakariya Ahed Bakr, 10, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with three other children, by artillery fire from an Israeli naval ship. The children were playing on the beach at the time of the incident.*_
  Mohammad Ramiz Bakr, 11, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with three other children, by artillery fire from an Israeli naval ship. The children were playing on the beach at the time of the incident.*_
  Ismail Mahmoud Bakr, 9, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with three other children, by artillery fire from an Israeli naval ship. The children were playing on the beach at the time of the incident.*_
  Yasmin al-Astal, 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed by IDF fire near a local mosque.*_
  Hamza Raed Thary, 6, of Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF air strike while playing in the sand at the beach.*_
  Usama Mahmoud Al-Astal, 6, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died of wounds he suffered earlier in the week during an IDF attack on a mosque.*_
17 July 2014

Fulla Tariq Shuhaibar, 8, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_

  Jihad Issam Shuhaibar, 10, of Gaza City,_* killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Wasim Issam Shuhaibar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Rahaf Khalil al-Jbour, 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
  Yassin al-Humaidi, 4, of Gaza City, _*died of injures sustained during an IDF air attack on his home earlier in the week. *_
  Mohammad Shadi Ntheir, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
  Mohammad Salem Ntheir, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
18 July 2014

Faris Juma’ al-Mahmoum, 5 months, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by IDF shelling near the Egyptian border.*_

  Ahmad Ismael Abu Musallam, 14, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment.*_
  Mohammad Ismael Abu Musallam, 15, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with two of his siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit his family’s apartment. *_
  Wala’ Ismael Abu Musallam, 13, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with two of her siblings, when an IDF artillery shell hit her family’s apartment. *_
  Haniyya Abdul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 3, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at his home.*_
  Samih Naim Abu Jarad, 1, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.*_
  Mousa Abul-Rahman Abu Jarad, 6 months, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of his home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.*_
  Ahlam Mousa Abu Jarad, 13, of Beit Hanoun, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF tank shelling of her home. Six other family members were also killed in the attack.*_
  Abdullah Jamal as-Smeiri, 17, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF air strike on his home.*_
  Imad Hamed E’lawwan, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.*_
  Qassem Hamed E’lawwan, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed when the IDF fired an artillery shell at his home.*_
  Sarah Mohammad Bustan, 13, of Gaza City,_* killed by IDF artillery fire. *_
  Rezeq Ahmad al-Hayek, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed when the IDF fired two artillery shells at her home.*_
  Amjad Salem Sha’at, 15, of Khan Younis,_* in the southern Gaza Strip, killed in an IDF rocket attack on his home.*_
19 July 2014

Mohammad Bassam as-Serry, 17,of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF drone missile as he stood with a group of neighbors near a local store.*_

  Waseem Rida Salhiyya, 15, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed by an IDF drone missile as he stood with a group of neighbors near a local store.*_
  Ibrahim Jamal Kamal Nassr, 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF drone missile as he stood with a group of neighbors near a local store. *_
  Mohammad Ziad ar-Rohhal, 6, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by flying shrapnel caused by a nearby IDF explosion.*_
  Rowiya Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 6, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.*_
  Naghm Mahmoud al-Zweidi, 2, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that struck her family’s apartment.*_
  Amr Hamouda, 7, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike near his home.*_
  Mahmoud Anwar Abu Shabab, 16, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that landed near a street where he was playing with his brothers.*_
20 July 2014

Anas Yousef Moammar, 16, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*died in the hospital of wounds suffered in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.*_

  Abdullah Yusef Daraji, 3, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Mohammed Raja Handam, 15, of Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF artillery attack on his family’s home.*_
  Shoeban Jamil Ziada, 12, of Al Bureij refugee camp, in the central Gaza Strip, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
  Mohammad Hani Mohammad al-Hallaq, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Kenan Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 6, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Saje Hasan Akram al-Hallaq, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Asem Khalil Abed Ammar, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Eman Khalil Abed Ammar, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
  Ibrahim Khalil Abed Ammar, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on his family’s home.*_
  Rahaf Akram Ismael Abu Joma, 4, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 others, in an IDF airstrike on the home she was staying in.*_
  Aya Bahjat Abu Sultan, 15, of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip,_* killed in an IDF drone strike on her family’s home.*_
  Umama Osama Khalil al-Hayya, 9, of Gaza City,_* killed in an IDF airstrike that targeted her father, senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya.*_
  Khalil Osama Khalil al-Hayya, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike that targeted his father, senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya.*_
  Tala Akram Ahmad al-Atawy, 7, of Gaza City, _*killed by IDF artillery shells as she was running away from the scene of an attack.*_
  Adel Abdullah Eslayyem, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that hit near her home. *_
  Dina Roshdi Abdullah Eslayyem, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that hit near her home.*_
  Shadi Ziad Hasan Eslayyem, 15, of Gaza City,_* killed by an IDF artillery shell that hit near his home.*_
  Ala Ziad Hasan Eslayyem, 11, of Gaza City,_* killed by an IDF artillery shell that hit near his home.*_
  Fadi Ziad Hasan Eslayyem, 10, of Gaza City, _*killed by an IDF artillery shell that hit near his home.*_
  Heba Hamed Mohammad Sheikh Khalil, 13, of Gaza City, _*killed in an IDF airstrike on her family’s home.*_
  Omar Jamil Sobhi Hammouda, 10, of Gaza City, _*killed by an IDF drone missile that landed next to him while he was standing in the city center with his cousin.*_
  Ghada Jamil Sobhi Hammouda, 10, of Gaza City, _*killed by an IDF drone missile that landed next to her while she was standing in the city center with her cousin.*_
  Mohammad Ashraf Rafiq Ayyad, 6, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with 9 others, by the IDF as he was attempting to leave the site of an IDF missile strike.*_
  Ghada Sobhi Saadi Ayyad, 9, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 9 others, by the IDF as she was attempting to leave the site of an IDF missile strike.*_
  Mohammad Raed Ehsan Ayyad, 6, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 9 others, by the IDF as he was attempting to leave the site of an IDF missile strike.*_
  Mohammad Rami Fathi Ayyad, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 9 others, by the IDF as he was attempting to leave the site of an IDF missile strike.*_
  Marah Shaker Ahmad al-Jammal, 2, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with her cousin, by an IDF artillery shell that hit her family’s home.*_
  Ahmed Sofian al-Jammal, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with his cousin, by an IDF artillery shell that hit his family’s home.*_
  Razan Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 14, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Jawdat Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 13, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Aya Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Haifaa Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 9, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Ahmad Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 8, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Maysaa Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 7, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Tawfiq Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame', 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Fatmeh Taysir Ahmad Abu Jame', 12, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Ayub Taysir Ahmad Abu Jame', 10, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Rayan Taysir Ahmad Abu Jame', 5, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Rinat Taysir Ahmad Abu Jame', 2, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip,_* killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Nujud Taysir Ahmad Abu Jame', 4 months, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Bitul Bassam Ahmad Abu Jame', 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Soheila Bassam Ahmad Abu Jame', 3, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Bisan Bassam Ahmad Abu Jame', 6 months, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Sajedah Yasser Ahmad Abu Jame', 7, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Siraj Yasser Ahmad Abu Jame', 4, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
  Nur Yasser Ahmad Abu Jame', 2, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed her home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time.*_
  Husam Husam Abu Qeins, 7, of Khan Younis, _*in the southern Gaza Strip, killed, along with 24 other family members, when the IDF bombed his home in an apparent attempt to kill Hamas member Ahmad Suliman Sahmoud, who was visiting a member of the family at the time. *_
21 July 2014

Shahinaz Walid Mohammad Abu Hamad, 1, of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, _*killed when an IDF missile struck her family’s home.*_

  Ahmad Ayman Mahrous Siyam, 17, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 other family members, in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
  Mustafa Nabil Mahrous Siyam, 12, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 other family members, in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
  Ghaida Nabil Mahrous Siyam, 8, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 other family members, in an IDF airstrike on her home.*_
  Dalal Nabil Mahrous Siyam, 8 months, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with 10 other family members, in an IDF airstrike on her home.*_
  Abdullah Matroud Abu Hjeir, 16, of Nusseirat refugee camp, in central Gaza Strip,_* killed when an IDF missile struck his motorcycle.*_
  Mayar al-Yazeji, 2, of Gaza City, _*killed when an IDF missile struck her family’s home.*_
  Anas al-Yazeji, 5, of Gaza City, _*killed when an IDF missile struck his family’s home.*_
  Yassr Ibrahim Deib al-Kilani, 8, of Gaza City,_* killed, along with his parents and 4 siblings, in an IDF airstrike on his home. *_
  Elias Ibrahim Deib al-Kilani, 4, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with his parents and 4 siblings, in an IDF airstrike on his home.*_
  Susan Ibrahim Deib al-Kilani, 11,of Gaza City, _*killed, along with her parents and 4 siblings, in an IDF airstrike on her home.*_
  Reem Ibrahim Deib al-Kilani, 12, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with her parents and 4 siblings, in an IDF airstrike on her home.*_
  Yasmeen Ibrahim Deeb al-Kilani, 9, of Gaza City, _*killed, along with her parents and 4 siblings, in an IDF airstrike on her home.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
*_
Targeting family homes is targeting civilians.


----------



## Hollie

That's nice. You wish to honor your Islamic terrorist heroes in Hamas and the consequences of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Are you still whining about the Palestinian's piddly little, so called terrorist attacks.


----------



## Hollie

Are you still whining about piddly little islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Are you still whining about piddly little islamic terrorists


More Israeli war crimes. Thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still whining about piddly little islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli war crimes. Thanks.
Click to expand...


Responding to acts of Islamic terrorism is not a war crime.


----------



## Hollie

Honestly, the truth is not that difficult to fathom for those not embalmed in the Islamic Death Cult. People like you just need a willingness to be honest with yourself and others. One truth is that people are murdered most every day, often _en mass_, by those like you who truly believe they are doing the work of their god and his partner. Truth for them is that they will receive carnal rewards in the afterlife. Another truth is that adherents to only one particular politico-religious ideology on the planet actively promote and further that madness. 
*

Palestinian mission in London changes venue of Barghouti film screening - PMW Bulletins

Palestinian mission in London continues
with event honoring terrorist Marwan Barghouti, 
but changes venue following complaints
 after Palestinian Media Watch exposure
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie

Two posts. Two terrorist cards.

I know, you can't help yourself.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie
> 
> Two posts. Two terrorist cards.
> 
> I know, you can't help yourself.



I understand your tender convert sensibilities are offended but your Islamic terrorist heroes being defined as Islamic terrorists is something you will need to deal with.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Two posts. Two terrorist cards.
> 
> I know, you can't help yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand your tender convert sensibilities are offended but your Islamic terrorist heroes being defined as Islamic terrorists is something you will need to deal with.
Click to expand...

Now it's two terrorist cards in one post.

Cool.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Two posts. Two terrorist cards.
> 
> I know, you can't help yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand your tender convert sensibilities are offended but your Islamic terrorist heroes being defined as Islamic terrorists is something you will need to deal with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now it's two terrorist cards in one post.
> 
> Cool.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Two posts. Two terrorist cards.
> 
> I know, you can't help yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand your tender convert sensibilities are offended but your Islamic terrorist heroes being defined as Islamic terrorists is something you will need to deal with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now it's two terrorist cards in one post.
> 
> Cool.
Click to expand...

Yep. It just gets you incensed when your islamic terrorist heroes are identified for their retrograde ideology.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
Click to expand...


Isn't it great that your Islamic terrorist heroes give you dead bodies to parade around?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Give it up. You are not going to out terrorist Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil. 

Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.

THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
artist.”
———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)

VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
Abdullah Azzam (2003)

DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.” 
———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981


Which leads us here:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil.
> 
> Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.
> 
> THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
> of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
> Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
> artist.”
> ———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)
> 
> VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
> build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
> established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
> ———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
> Abdullah Azzam (2003)
> 
> DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
> calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.”
> ———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981
> 
> 
> Which leads us here:


Israel really need to stop its war.


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> ...The true face of evil....



*ISRAEL TORTURES CHILDREN*

*Despite hundreds of complaints of Shin Bet torture, Israel yet to launch single investigation
Torture, Israeli-style - as described by the interrogators themselves
Opinion Will the U.S. stop importing Israeli torture techniques? 
read more: Israel tortures Palestinian children, Amnesty report says*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil.
> 
> Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.
> 
> THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
> of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
> Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
> artist.”
> ———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)
> 
> VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
> build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
> established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
> ———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
> Abdullah Azzam (2003)
> 
> DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
> calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.”
> ———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981
> 
> 
> Which leads us here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really need to stop its war.
Click to expand...


The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.

As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil.
> 
> Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.
> 
> THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
> of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
> Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
> artist.”
> ———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)
> 
> VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
> build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
> established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
> ———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
> Abdullah Azzam (2003)
> 
> DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
> calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.”
> ———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981
> 
> 
> Which leads us here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really need to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.
> 
> As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.
Click to expand...

What is IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil.
> 
> Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.
> 
> THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
> of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
> Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
> artist.”
> ———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)
> 
> VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
> build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
> established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
> ———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
> Abdullah Azzam (2003)
> 
> DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
> calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.”
> ———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981
> 
> 
> Which leads us here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really need to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.
> 
> As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?
Click to expand...


Ridding the area of Islamic terrorists. 



JDAMS are allah's way of saying, happy Ramadan' a ding dong.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil.
> 
> Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.
> 
> THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
> of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
> Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
> artist.”
> ———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)
> 
> VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
> build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
> established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
> ———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
> Abdullah Azzam (2003)
> 
> DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
> calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.”
> ———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981
> 
> 
> Which leads us here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really need to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.
> 
> As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridding the area of Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> JDAMS are allah's way of saying, happy Ramadan' a ding dong.
Click to expand...

Like I say, you can't out terrorist Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem terrorism. The true face of evil.
> 
> Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. In their own words.
> 
> THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love
> of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
> Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful
> artist.”
> ———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)
> 
> VIOLENCE: “History does not write its lines except with. Glory does not
> build its lofty edifice except with skulls. Honor and respect cannot be
> established except on a foundation of cripples and corpses.”
> ———Brotherhood Leader and Osama bin Laden’s Teacher,
> Abdullah Azzam (2003)
> 
> DEMOCRACY: “Democracy contradicts and wages war on Islam. Whoever
> calls for democracy means they are raising banners contradicting God’s plan and fighting Islam.”
> ———Brotherhood Supreme Spiritual Leader, Mustapha Mashour (1981
> 
> 
> Which leads us here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really need to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.
> 
> As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridding the area of Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> JDAMS are allah's way of saying, happy Ramadan' a ding dong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I say, you can't out terrorist Israel.
Click to expand...


Like you say, you're befuddled. 


If you take the time to understand facts (not that I'm accusing you of that), you will understand that your Islamic terrorist heros are causing the greatest number of islamo-deaths.

Have you considered that Allah has played a cruel joke on you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really need to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.
> 
> As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridding the area of Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> JDAMS are allah's way of saying, happy Ramadan' a ding dong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I say, you can't out terrorist Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like you say, you're befuddled.
> 
> 
> If you take the time to understand facts (not that I'm accusing you of that), you will understand that your Islamic terrorist heros are causing the greatest number of islamo-deaths.
> 
> Have you considered that Allah has played a cruel joke on you?
Click to expand...

Is that a deflection or just irrelevant?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The war on Islamic terrorists wil not end. It's important to confront Islamic terrorism with a will and determination to overcome it.
> 
> As an impotent keyboard wannabe, safely ensconced in the infidel west, you're left only to flail your Pom Poms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridding the area of Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> JDAMS are allah's way of saying, happy Ramadan' a ding dong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I say, you can't out terrorist Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like you say, you're befuddled.
> 
> 
> If you take the time to understand facts (not that I'm accusing you of that), you will understand that your Islamic terrorist heros are causing the greatest number of islamo-deaths.
> 
> Have you considered that Allah has played a cruel joke on you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that a deflection or just irrelevant?
Click to expand...


You're definitely deflecting _and_ irrelevant. But aren't you always?

The internecine hatreds that divide the sunni and shia have smoldered for 1,400 years and occasionally combust into raging kill-fests.  

While Islamic terrorist franchises are many in the muhammedan Middle East, I think it should be pointed out that we should view these franchises not as monolithic organs or apparatus, but rather a philosophy which pervades the muhammedan ummah--a worldwide nation of retrogrades, not contained within specific borders--under the auspices of Islamism, and specifically united by the sacred duty of gee-had.

This is a philosophy which, while it has existied since Islam's invention by an Arab warlord, was crystallized in modern times in the form of the retrograde motto of the Muslim Brotherhood: 
Allah is our objective. 
The Prophet is our leader. 
Qur'an is our law. 
Jihad is our way. 
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. 


As Death Cults go, Islamism got nothin' on Marshall Applewhite.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) doing in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridding the area of Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> JDAMS are allah's way of saying, happy Ramadan' a ding dong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I say, you can't out terrorist Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like you say, you're befuddled.
> 
> 
> If you take the time to understand facts (not that I'm accusing you of that), you will understand that your Islamic terrorist heros are causing the greatest number of islamo-deaths.
> 
> Have you considered that Allah has played a cruel joke on you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that a deflection or just irrelevant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're definitely deflecting _and_ irrelevant. But aren't you always?
> 
> The internecine hatreds that divide the sunni and shia have smoldered for 1,400 years and occasionally combust into raging kill-fests.
> 
> While Islamic terrorist franchises are many in the muhammedan Middle East, I think it should be pointed out that we should view these franchises not as monolithic organs or apparatus, but rather a philosophy which pervades the muhammedan ummah--a worldwide nation of retrogrades, not contained within specific borders--under the auspices of Islamism, and specifically united by the sacred duty of gee-had.
> 
> This is a philosophy which, while it has existied since Islam's invention by an Arab warlord, was crystallized in modern times in the form of the retrograde motto of the Muslim Brotherhood:
> Allah is our objective.
> The Prophet is our leader.
> Qur'an is our law.
> Jihad is our way.
> Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.
> 
> 
> As Death Cults go, Islamism got nothin' on Marshall Applewhite.
Click to expand...

Ah, deflection it is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abir Kopty*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Abir Kopty*
> 
> **





It's a shame you're incapable of doing anything but cutting and pasting irrelevant piffle.

Alas, I expected little of your abilities and was rewarded with even less.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Are you trying to impress someone with these minuscule attacks.

You can't out terrorist Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What is IDF ... doing in Palestine?



Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is IDF ... doing in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.
Click to expand...

Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is IDF ... doing in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is IDF ... doing in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is IDF ... doing in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is IDF ... doing in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

*Israel’s Colonialism Must End*

In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.

The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0

Now where is your link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
Click to expand...


Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.

Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism

*Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, defending Israel's illegal settler colonial project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
Click to expand...

Swiss Cheese article.

How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?

All of the Palestinians do.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
Click to expand...


How can you know that for certain?  A leader of Hamas claimed that many Palestinians have Egyptian or Syrian surnames.  And ironically, Sherri once posted a document from the 1920's, or thereabouts, that claimed that Palestine's population was constantly being replenished by nomads from Arabia.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
Click to expand...

I understand you're incensed that anyone would dare challenge your hysterical vs. historical presumptions regarding your invented Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. However, your silly ..."because I say so" commandments regarding "all Pal'istanians" is totally unsupported. 

What hystetical data you learn at your madrassah doesn't pass muster in the realm of facts and history.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, pushing aside the Arab-Moslem land grabbers / colonists.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
Click to expand...

Indeed, your usual tactic when confronted with facts that you refuse to acknowledge is to whine like a petulant child who has been scolded and sent for a time out.

"Whine" with your Swiss cheese?

From my earlier link:

"There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.

There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.

The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.

The only reason there’s a debate about the Temple Mount is because Caliph Omar conquered Jerusalem and ordered a mosque built on a holy Jewish site. The only reason there’s a debate about East Jerusalem is because invading Muslim armies seized half the city in 1948, bombed synagogues and ethnically cleansed the Jewish population to achieve an artificial Muslim settler majority.

The only Muslim claim to Jerusalem or to any other part of Israel is based purely on the enterprise of colonial violence. There is no Muslim claim to Israel based on anything other than colonialism, invasion and settlement.

Israel is littered with Omar mosques, including one built in the courtyard of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, because Islam is a colonial entity whose mosques testify to their invasive origins by celebrating colonialism as their true religion. The faith of Islam is the sworn religion of the sword.

Islam is a religion of colonialism that spread through invasion, settlement and conquest. Its caliphs, from the original invaders, including Omar, to the current Caliph of ISIS, wielded and wield religious authority in the service of the Islamic colonial enterprise."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, your usual tactic when confronted with facts that you refuse to acknowledge is to whine like a petulant child who has been scolded and sent for a time out.
> 
> "Whine" with your Swiss cheese?
> 
> From my earlier link:
> 
> "There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.
> 
> There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.
> 
> The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.
> 
> The only reason there’s a debate about the Temple Mount is because Caliph Omar conquered Jerusalem and ordered a mosque built on a holy Jewish site. The only reason there’s a debate about East Jerusalem is because invading Muslim armies seized half the city in 1948, bombed synagogues and ethnically cleansed the Jewish population to achieve an artificial Muslim settler majority.
> 
> The only Muslim claim to Jerusalem or to any other part of Israel is based purely on the enterprise of colonial violence. There is no Muslim claim to Israel based on anything other than colonialism, invasion and settlement.
> 
> Israel is littered with Omar mosques, including one built in the courtyard of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, because Islam is a colonial entity whose mosques testify to their invasive origins by celebrating colonialism as their true religion. The faith of Islam is the sworn religion of the sword.
> 
> Islam is a religion of colonialism that spread through invasion, settlement and conquest. Its caliphs, from the original invaders, including Omar, to the current Caliph of ISIS, wielded and wield religious authority in the service of the Islamic colonial enterprise."
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you're incensed that anyone would dare challenge your hysterical vs. historical presumptions regarding your invented Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. However, your silly ..."because I say so" commandments regarding "all Pal'istanians" is totally unsupported.
> 
> What hystetical data you learn at your madrassah doesn't pass muster in the realm of facts and history.
Click to expand...

Duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand you're incensed that anyone would dare challenge your hysterical vs. historical presumptions regarding your invented Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. However, your silly ..."because I say so" commandments regarding "all Pal'istanians" is totally unsupported.
> 
> What hystetical data you learn at your madrassah doesn't pass muster in the realm of facts and history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duck.
Click to expand...


You certainly did. In a most cowardly way.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel’s Colonialism Must End*
> 
> In the eyes of an occupying power, the humanity of those under its thumb depends on the degree of their submission to, or collaboration with, the occupation. If the occupied population chooses to stand in the way of the occupier’s goals, then they are demonized, which allows the occupier the supposed moral excuse of confronting them with all possible means, no matter how harsh.
> 
> The Israeli occupation of Palestine is one of the only remaining settler-colonial occupations in the world today.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/ali-jarbawi-israels-colonialism-must-end.html?_r=0
> 
> Now where is your link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, it's right here, you angry little convert.
> 
> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel as they did in other places, like India, that had an indigenous population. Advocates for 'Palestine' are not fighting colonialism, they are promoting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swiss Cheese article.
> 
> How many Jews have ancestors from the holy land?
> 
> All of the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you know that for certain?  A leader of Hamas claimed that many Palestinians have Egyptian or Syrian surnames.  And ironically, Sherri once posted a document from the 1920's, or thereabouts, that claimed that Palestine's population was constantly being replenished by nomads from Arabia.
Click to expand...

So now you are holding up Hamas as the beacon of truth?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*See Omar Barghouti, co-founder of BDS talk about the movement as he receives the Gandhi Peace Award at Yale.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *See Omar Barghouti, co-founder of BDS talk about the movement as he receives the Gandhi Peace Award at Yale.*



It's not unheard of for Islamic terrorists to receive rewards for Islamic terrorism. Just ask Yassir "_money in France_" Arafat.

Interesting how Barghouti, with a degree from _The Zionist Entity_™, is the head propagandist in charge of the vacant minded BDS'ers.

Any school boy knows the absurdity of the "do as I say, not as I do" weasel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *See Omar Barghouti, co-founder of BDS talk about the movement as he receives the Gandhi Peace Award at Yale.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not unheard of for Islamic terrorists to receive rewards for Islamic terrorism. Just ask Yassir "_money in France_" Arafat.
> 
> Interesting how Barghouti, with a degree from _The Zionist Entity_™, is the head propagandist in charge of the vacant minded BDS'ers.
> 
> Any school boy knows the absurdity of the "do as I say, not as I do" weasel.
Click to expand...

One of the most hated people in Israel gets a peace award.

Does that mean that Israel hates peace?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *See Omar Barghouti, co-founder of BDS talk about the movement as he receives the Gandhi Peace Award at Yale.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not unheard of for Islamic terrorists to receive rewards for Islamic terrorism. Just ask Yassir "_money in France_" Arafat.
> 
> Interesting how Barghouti, with a degree from _The Zionist Entity_™, is the head propagandist in charge of the vacant minded BDS'ers.
> 
> Any school boy knows the absurdity of the "do as I say, not as I do" weasel.
Click to expand...

Ha! interesting point.
After Eli Cohen, I wouldn't be surprised about Barghouti.
With all the opportunities BDS brought Israel economy, and the way it helps Israelis clearly distinguish between partners and foes.

Makes one think.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *See Omar Barghouti, co-founder of BDS talk about the movement as he receives the Gandhi Peace Award at Yale.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not unheard of for Islamic terrorists to receive rewards for Islamic terrorism. Just ask Yassir "_money in France_" Arafat.
> 
> Interesting how Barghouti, with a degree from _The Zionist Entity_™, is the head propagandist in charge of the vacant minded BDS'ers.
> 
> Any school boy knows the absurdity of the "do as I say, not as I do" weasel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the most hated people in Israel gets a peace award.
> 
> Does that mean that Israel hates peace?
Click to expand...


Flailing your Pom Poms for Barghouti, another Jew hater who makes a good living feeding off of _The Plight of the Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians ™_


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leanne Mohamad, Winner, Jack Petchey’s “Speak Out” Challenge! Redbridge Regional Final 2015 16 *

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *See Omar Barghouti, co-founder of BDS talk about the movement as he receives the Gandhi Peace Award at Yale.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not unheard of for Islamic terrorists to receive rewards for Islamic terrorism. Just ask Yassir "_money in France_" Arafat.
> 
> Interesting how Barghouti, with a degree from _The Zionist Entity_™, is the head propagandist in charge of the vacant minded BDS'ers.
> 
> Any school boy knows the absurdity of the "do as I say, not as I do" weasel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the most hated people in Israel gets a peace award.
> 
> Does that mean that Israel hates peace?
Click to expand...


Didn't Obama receive a Nobel for Peace before launching attacks on Libya?
As well as the Nazi leader in 1939, along with Ghandi the same year for the same prize,

My stinky broom has more dignity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rana Burqan - Global Study Awards winner from Palestine *

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist Mother of the Year nominee.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christian woman talk about the Israeli apartheid and Zionist occupation in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So you post a ten year old report from a fake Christan source.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a ten year old report from a fake Christan source.
Click to expand...


Did I offend your tender Islamo-sensibilities?

Your whining is what is fake.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a ten year old report from a fake Christan source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I offend your tender Islamo-sensibilities?
> 
> Your whining is what is fake.
Click to expand...

Why should fake bother me. Most everything about Israel is fake.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a ten year old report from a fake Christan source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I offend your tender Islamo-sensibilities?
> 
> Your whining is what is fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should fake bother me. Most everything about Israel is fake.
Click to expand...

The "angry islamist" thing makes you just a stereotype. 

Your denial of reality is your own pathology to deal with.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Anaheed Al-Hardan discusses her book "Palestinians in Syria" *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are are the arab-moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mustafa Barghouti *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversations with History: Palestinian Voice Hanan Ashrawi *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Keep pimping that terrorist propaganda crap.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep pimping that terrorist propaganda crap.
Click to expand...


Your bruised islamo-sensitivities troubling you?


----------



## Hollie

*PA TV honors murderer by joining family’s birthday party - PMW Bulletins

PA TV honors murderer
by joining family's birthday party:
He is a source of "pride for all of Palestine"*

*Murderers of Israelis are PA TV's "heroes"*

As'ad Zo'rob is a Palestinian murderer. In 2002, he shot and killed his Israeli employer who was giving him a ride in his car. Zo'rob is serving a life sentence for the murder. Official Palestinian Authority TV called him "heroic" and decided to join the family's birthday celebrations in his honor. At the party earlier this month, the PA TV host referred to the murderer as "the heroic prisoner" and a source of "pride" for "all of Palestine":






As we see with the Arab-Moslem Death Cult, there is every reason to believe that the people who commit the most horrendous mass murders are deeply religious, pious Moslems who derive inspiration for their acts from their religious perspectives.

Death Cult apologetics / moral equivalence notwithstanding, can anyone find any ideology in the world today which compares to the cultish, widespread, and ongoing systematic savagery that follows Islamist ideology? There is something very, very wrong with offering apologetics for an ideology that has not changed since it was invented on the scorched sands of the Arabian peninsula fourteen hundred years ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?


Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.

And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.
> 
> And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.
Click to expand...

I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.
> 
> And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.
> 
> And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.

As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.

As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.

Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development. 

Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.
> 
> And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.
> 
> As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.
> 
> As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development.
> 
> Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.
Click to expand...

Babble on.

Post your version of what happened.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Pal'istanian welfare cheats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.
> 
> And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.
> 
> As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.
> 
> As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development.
> 
> Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Babble on.
> 
> Post your version of what happened.
Click to expand...


_Nice duck_™. 

I heard the pitter patter of little islamo-dancing shoes. 

What is the common thread that connects failed, theocratic totalitarian fear societies across the Islamic Middle East to include the two, competing versions of welfare fraud recipients in Gaza and the West Bank?

Hint: there's a clue I left for you in the above.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that Arafat and Abbas are foreign appointed so called Palestinian leaders.
> 
> And the abuses mostly come from the security forces that are armed, paid, and trained by the US and work in conjunction with the Israeli military.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.
> 
> As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.
> 
> As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development.
> 
> Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Babble on.
> 
> Post your version of what happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Nice duck_™.
> 
> I heard the pitter patter of little islamo-dancing shoes.
> 
> What is the common thread that connects failed, theocratic totalitarian fear societies across the Islamic Middle East to include the two, competing versions of welfare fraud recipients in Gaza and the West Bank?
> 
> Hint: there's a clue I left for you in the above.
Click to expand...

Deflection is your version?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not forgetting that you're reduced to goofy conspiracy theories as a means to explain the failure of Islamic terrorists to manage a workable government.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.
> 
> As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.
> 
> As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development.
> 
> Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Babble on.
> 
> Post your version of what happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Nice duck_™.
> 
> I heard the pitter patter of little islamo-dancing shoes.
> 
> What is the common thread that connects failed, theocratic totalitarian fear societies across the Islamic Middle East to include the two, competing versions of welfare fraud recipients in Gaza and the West Bank?
> 
> Hint: there's a clue I left for you in the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection is your version?
Click to expand...


There's the pitter patter of those little islamo-dancing shoes again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.
> 
> As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.
> 
> As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development.
> 
> Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Babble on.
> 
> Post your version of what happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Nice duck_™.
> 
> I heard the pitter patter of little islamo-dancing shoes.
> 
> What is the common thread that connects failed, theocratic totalitarian fear societies across the Islamic Middle East to include the two, competing versions of welfare fraud recipients in Gaza and the West Bank?
> 
> Hint: there's a clue I left for you in the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection is your version?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's the pitter patter of those little islamo-dancing shoes again.
Click to expand...

Indeed, deflection it is.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know that "I 'dun seen it on YouTube, so it must be true", is not an argument.
> 
> As always, you are bereft a substantiated argument.
> 
> As always, you need excuses for arab-moslem incompetence at managing the civil affairs of government. The failure of the two competing versions of Pal'istanians (Hamas Death Cult and the Fatah Death Cult), share precisely the same failures at governing which pervade the arab-islamist Middle East.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is a model of government that exists only in Islamist controlled fear societies and all share the same afflictions to include limited human rights, forced religion and stunted economic development.
> 
> Unless and until you Islamic retrogrades can fix those things that cause your own retrogression, you will always be the perfect victims you choose to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Babble on.
> 
> Post your version of what happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Nice duck_™.
> 
> I heard the pitter patter of little islamo-dancing shoes.
> 
> What is the common thread that connects failed, theocratic totalitarian fear societies across the Islamic Middle East to include the two, competing versions of welfare fraud recipients in Gaza and the West Bank?
> 
> Hint: there's a clue I left for you in the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection is your version?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's the pitter patter of those little islamo-dancing shoes again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, deflection it is.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you're befuddled so.... on go the islamo-dancing shoes.


----------



## Hollie

*MUSLIM [Arab-Moslem Death Cult] "PEACE TOUR" ENDS WITH 4 STABBED*

Muslim "Peace Tour" Ends With 4 Stabbed

The Natural Peace Tours NGO, which arranges for one day entry passes for PA Arabs wishing to tour and become acquainted with Israeli society, confessed they had no idea one of their clients would grab a sharp object and stab four innocent Israeli civilians – one out on the street near Tel Aviv’s Atarim Square and three more inside Leonardo Beach Hotel.




The attack detailed above by Pal'istanian Death Cultists, like many others, I suspect, is indicative of the somewhat new trend of many disparate Islamic terror groups and even Islamic individuals who, while viewing gee-had all-stars like bin Laden, al-Zarqawi, and al-Zawahiri (interesting that the two former gee-had kingpins are no longer breathing), with reverence, are not dependent on them as they plan and carry out Islamic terror operations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Mansour*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cult writing identities


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hundreds of students in London protest “propaganda” visit from Israeli ambassador*

27 April 2017 - Countless students from the University of London School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) have rallied today to protest the visit of Israeli ambassador Mark Regev.

“By giving Mark Regev a platform to defend Israel’s oppression of Palestinians, SOAS is helping Israel to whitewash its violations of international law and showing complete disregard for the welfare of members of SOAS community who are directly impacted by Israeli state violence.” said SOAS student Joane Cremesty.

Hundreds of students and staff members signed a letter to SOAS Director Valerie Amos urging her to scrap plans for the visit, “We fear that if this provocative event proceeds as planned, it will cause substantial distress and harm to many of our students and staff who are, have been or will be affected by the actions of what a recent UN report refers to as the Israeli ‘apartheid regime.’

Hundreds of students in London protest “propaganda” visit from Israeli ambassador


----------



## Hollie

Who are the arab-moslem Death Cultists?

Palestinian blood cult: Water the soil with your blood - PMW Bulletins

*Palestinian blood cult:
Water the soil with your blood


A cartoon in the official Palestinian Authority daily illustrated the blood cult ideology often disseminated by the PA and Fatah, which promotes the message that the land needs Palestinian blood in order to thrive. In the cartoon above, a prisoner is watering the soil with blood directly from his vein and a plant is successfully sprouting.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

PA cuts salaries to Gaza workers, but not to terrorist prisoners - PMW Bulletins


*PA cuts salaries to Gaza workers, 
but not to terrorist prisoners* 

*With deepening economic crisis, PA government cuts salaries to productive workers in Gaza but not to non-productive terrorists in prison*
*PLO Director of Prisoners’ Affairs:
“The cuts approved by the [PA] Palestinian government to the salaries of the state employees in Gaza will not harm the released prisoners or the prisoners in the Israeli occupation’s prisons”*

*o
PA Prime Minister calls for release of Palestinian murderers:
We need “to release all of the prisoners without exception”*


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> *...PA cuts salaries to Gaza workers,
> but not to terrorist prisoners*...


My G-d, you are an idiot!


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *...PA cuts salaries to Gaza workers,
> but not to terrorist prisoners*...
> 
> 
> 
> My G-d, you are an idiot!
Click to expand...


What a shame your bruised Islamo-sensibilities cause you such angst.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A thousand Palestinian prisoners are on a hunger strike. This woman is fighting for their rights.*






Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar gestures as she is carried by Palestinian activists after her release from an Israeli jail at Israeli Jbara checkpoint near the West Bank city of Tulkarm in 2016. (Abed Omar Qusini/Reuters)


RAMALLAH — Khalida Jarrar’s neat office and smart appearance offer little indication that this time last year she was serving out a 15-month sentence in an Israeli jail cell.

She’s an elected Palestinian parliamentarian, a lawyer, a wife and a mother. She is also, according to Israel, an agitator and a danger to its security. Her travel has been restricted for years by Israel and she has not left the occupied West Bank since 1998.

In April 2015, an Israeli military court convicted her of incitement and membership in an illegal terrorist organization, among other things — charges she still denies.

A thousand Palestinian prisoners are on a hunger strike. This woman is fighting for their rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cult Rights


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arab-Moslem Death Cult Rights


Israeli propaganda bullshit. Those are the people who were trying to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem Death Cult Rights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli propaganda bullshit. Those are the people who were trying to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.
Click to expand...


*The Tinmore Vortex*™

It's truly comical that Arabs-Moslems self created disasters are always the fault of the Joooooos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem Death Cult Rights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli propaganda bullshit. Those are the people who were trying to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Tinmore Vortex*™
> 
> It's truly comical that Arabs-Moslems self created disasters are always the fault of the Joooooos.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about Jews?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-moslem Death Cultists?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem Death Cult Rights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli propaganda bullshit. Those are the people who were trying to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Tinmore Vortex*™
> 
> It's truly comical that Arabs-Moslems self created disasters are always the fault of the Joooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about Jews?
Click to expand...


_The Zionists™_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Oh gee, A Ziowood Productions video.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Holding Islamic terrorists accountable


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Don't Recognize Islamic State! I Don't Recognize Jewish State!" Hanan Ashrawi *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


 Thank you. I needed a good laugh to start my day. 

What a dumbard.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I needed a good laugh to start my day.
> 
> What a dumbard.
Click to expand...


You're welcome. Always willing to show Islamic retrogrades for what they are.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Stand With Us is an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*US body on religious freedom rebuffed Palestinian Christians– and Zogby says group was ‘bullied’*







Zogby is the director of the Arab American Institute and was appointed eight years ago to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) by President Obama. With less than three weeks left in his term, Zogby went public with his dissenting opinion to the religious committee’s decision to excuse Israel from an investigation.

US body on religious freedom rebuffed Palestinian Christians– and Zogby says group was ‘bullied’


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stand With Us is an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


You will characterize any organization that's exposes the beastly nature of Islamic ideology as propaganda.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Straight from the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force)


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Straight from the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force)
Click to expand...


The "angry islamist" thing is so cute.


----------



## Hollie

Hellfire missiles clean even those hard to reach places.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Inminds Protest over Sotheby's sale of Israel Blood Diamonds 4 Apr 2017 *


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
Click to expand...


Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.
Click to expand...

Not true. Why people leave is irrelevant.

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Why people leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...


Why people leave is relevant. 

Learn something.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Why people leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why people leave is relevant.
> 
> Learn something.
Click to expand...

No proof for what you say?

Of course not.

You just rattle on about Israeli talking points like they were true.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Why people leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why people leave is relevant.
> 
> Learn something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No proof for what you say?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> You just rattle on about Israeli talking points like they were true.
Click to expand...


I understand you're furious. You made a baseless claim and were forced to slip in to your islamo-taqiyya dancing shoes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Why people leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why people leave is relevant.
> 
> Learn something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No proof for what you say?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> You just rattle on about Israeli talking points like they were true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand you're furious. You made a baseless claim and were forced to slip in to your islamo-taqiyya dancing shoes.
Click to expand...

You made the claim with your propaganda video. Now you are stuck because you cannot prove it to be true.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ramzy Baroud


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why they left is relevant. Yet another disaster created by muhammedans who won't accept responsibility for their self-created disasters.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Why people leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why people leave is relevant.
> 
> Learn something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No proof for what you say?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> You just rattle on about Israeli talking points like they were true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand you're furious. You made a baseless claim and were forced to slip in to your islamo-taqiyya dancing shoes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made the claim with your propaganda video. Now you are stuck because you cannot prove it to be true.
Click to expand...


You're just enraged because anyone would dare challenge your pointless propaganda and Pom Pom flailing for Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

*A FAKE MUSEUM FOR A FAKE PALESTINE*

*A Fake Museum for a Fake Palestine
*
The same is true of the Palestinian Museum which opened with much fanfare and one slight problem. While admission is free, there’s nothing inside for any of the visitors to see except the bare walls.

The Palestinian Museum had been in the works since 1998, but has no exhibits. The museum cost $24 million. All it has to show for it are a few low sloping sandy buildings indistinguishable from the dirt and a “garden” of scraggly bushes and shrubs. The Palestinian Museum is open, but there’s nothing inside.

It’s hard to think of a better metaphor for Palestine than a bunch of empty buildings designed by Irish and Chinese architects whose non-existent exhibits were the brainchild of its former Armenian-American director. It’s as Palestinian as bagels and cream cheese. Or skiing, hot cocoa and fjords.

Over the Palestinian Museum flies the proud flag of Palestine, which was originally the flag of the Iraqi-Jordanian Federation before the PLO “borrowed” it, and visitors might be greeted by the Palestinian anthem composed by Greek Communist Mikis Theodorakis. If it sounds anything like the soundtrack from Zorba the Greek, that’s because they both share the same composer.


----------



## Hollie

Nakba Hoax


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rana Burqan - Global Study Awards winner from Palestine *


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian global gee-had award winner.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hamas kills Pal'istanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Irene Calis*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have the right to return to their homes. Why they left is not relevant.
Click to expand...


You are not just arguing that (individual) people have a right to return to their homes -- but that a peoples have the right to return to their homeland.  

You just need to apply that concept universally.  To all peoples.  Including the Jewish peoples.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A WOMAN OF 100 TALENTS – DANA DAJANI *


----------



## Hollie

A woman with no talents


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion show


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


>



Thank you for the thanks.

I'm always willing to identify your fascist, Jew hating heroes for misfits they are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the thanks.
> 
> I'm always willing to identify your fascist, Jew hating heroes for misfits they are.
Click to expand...

Where did she say anything about hating Jews?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the thanks.
> 
> I'm always willing to identify your fascist, Jew hating heroes for misfits they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did she say anything about hating Jews?
Click to expand...


You just managed to suck yourself into the *Tinmore Vortex™*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Najla Said*

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanians are fake.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal'istanians are fake.


So now you are holding up Hamas as the beacon of truth?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Manal Fakhoury I am a moderate Muslim Micanopy, Florida September 8, 2013 *

**


----------



## Hollie

Moderate Islamic terrorists


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal'istanians are fake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you are holding up Hamas as the beacon of truth?
Click to expand...


So now you are in denial regarding the invented Pal'istanians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


*The never answered question!*

Fatah lost the elections. How did they get to be the government?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question!*
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. How did they get to be the government?
Click to expand...


One of your many conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question!*
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. How did they get to be the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of your many conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question!*
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. How did they get to be the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of your many conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The *Tinmore Shuffle ™*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question!*
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. How did they get to be the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of your many conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The *Tinmore Shuffle ™*
Click to expand...

The usual dance around the never answered question.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




"We don't hate them because they practice Judaism -- we hate them because they are Jewish."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Noor Harazeen


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## abu afak

Whenever I seed PF Tinhead showing at the end of a string..
I KNOW it's a Boobtube withOUT a word.
Tinhead is a Non-conversant TROLL. (3 today alone)
.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Islamic terrorism and incitement to islamic terrorism carries consequences.

It's the will of Allah.


Can I get an _Infidel Akbar_ brothas' and sista's?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism and incitement to islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> It's the will of Allah.
> 
> 
> Can I get an _Infidel Akbar_ brothas' and sista's?
Click to expand...

Everyone is a terrorist to those assholes.

Name a political party in Palestine that is not called terrorists by Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism and incitement to islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> It's the will of Allah.
> 
> 
> Can I get an _Infidel Akbar_ brothas' and sista's?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone is a terrorist to those assholes.
> 
> Name a political party in Palestine that is not called terrorists by Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


Do not question the will of Allah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism and incitement to islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> It's the will of Allah.
> 
> 
> Can I get an _Infidel Akbar_ brothas' and sista's?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone is a terrorist to those assholes.
> 
> Name a political party in Palestine that is not called terrorists by Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do not question the will of Allah.
Click to expand...

Khalida Jarrar is a Christian.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi on Palestine and BDS - Witness Palestine Rochester *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Ghada Karmi "Israels Policies Are Those Of Outlaws & Criminals. It's Not A Valid State!" *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dima Khalidi*

Anti-BDS Campaign Aims to Undermine Academic Freedom and Free Speech on Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So you post a fake Christian site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dima Khalidi*
> 
> Anti-BDS Campaign Aims to Undermine Academic Freedom and Free Speech on Palestine



Do you post Islamic propaganda?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Eloy

Clearly BDS frightens the Israelis because they know they are running an apartheid state, on the wrong side of history, and living on borrowed time.


----------



## Hollie

Eloy said:


> Clearly BDS frightens the Israelis because they know they are running an apartheid state, on the wrong side of history, and living on borrowed time.



Actually, BDS is another failure by muhammedans and their Pom Pom flailers to make the Islamist Middle East _Judenrein_. 

You Hitler / Islamic terrorist wannabes are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dima Khalidi*
> 
> Anti-BDS Campaign Aims to Undermine Academic Freedom and Free Speech on Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you post Islamic propaganda?
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly BDS frightens the Israelis because they know they are running an apartheid state, on the wrong side of history, and living on borrowed time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, BDS is another failure by muhammedans and their Pom Pom flailers to make the Islamist Middle East _Judenrein_.
> 
> You Hitler / Islamic terrorist wannabes are a hoot.
Click to expand...

Israel is reduced to deflection and name calling. It is a strategy that is failing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dima Khalidi*
> 
> Anti-BDS Campaign Aims to Undermine Academic Freedom and Free Speech on Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you post Islamic propaganda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly BDS frightens the Israelis because they know they are running an apartheid state, on the wrong side of history, and living on borrowed time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, BDS is another failure by muhammedans and their Pom Pom flailers to make the Islamist Middle East _Judenrein_.
> 
> You Hitler / Islamic terrorist wannabes are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is reduced to deflection and name calling. It is a strategy that is failing.
Click to expand...


Actually, you really are just clueless.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Good thing that dumbfuck crashed and burned in the elections.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani*

Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Historicizing the Palestinian Struggle: Jennifer Moghannam *

**


----------



## Hollie

*Pallywood Undercover*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Are you still on Israel's terrorist propaganda kick?

Drop in the bucket compared to Israel's terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Daoud Nassar


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Words by Islamic tarrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Natalie Tahhan*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Sara Saleh *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Suha Najjar*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*susan abulhawa*

Like all corporate media hosts, she pounds on Israel's talking points. She follows the script.

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Randa Abdel-Fattah *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Zena Agha*


----------



## Hollie

How the Death Cult made me a feminist..... in a Fem Tent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Akram*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*

How MuslimGirl Founder Turned Her Blog Into A Business


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


As an occupied people have the right to do.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As an occupied people have the right to do.
Click to expand...


Such a whiny little Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailer.

Back to your keyboard gee-had wannabe Islamic terrorist.

Such a goofy clown.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


*Was Convicted Palestinian-American Rasmea Yousef Odeh Allowed a Fair Defense? *

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Was Convicted Palestinian-American Rasmea Yousef Odeh Allowed a Fair Defense? *
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Ya' Allah. Another conspiracy theory.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion show.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Was Convicted Palestinian-American Rasmea Yousef Odeh Allowed a Fair Defense? *
> 
> **
Click to expand...

*Why was the Government Looking Into a 20 Year Old Citizenship Application? *

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Was Convicted Palestinian-American Rasmea Yousef Odeh Allowed a Fair Defense? *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why was the Government Looking Into a 20 Year Old Citizenship Application? *
> 
> **
Click to expand...


This is the wrong forum for your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - stunted manhood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Was Convicted Palestinian-American Rasmea Yousef Odeh Allowed a Fair Defense? *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya' Allah. Another conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

Israel tortures Palestinians into confessions then runs those confessions down to their kangaroo courts where they get a virtually 100% conviction rate. This is not a conspiracy theory. This has been well documented for many decades. There has even been a US report on this consistent practice.


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist fashion show.


----------



## P F Tinmore

For those propagandists who constantly whine about Israel being singled out.

*Interview with Huwaida Arraf from Witness Bahrain after deportation *


----------



## Hollie

Islamist terrorism aimed at purging the Christians from Islamic Terrorist'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamist terrorism aimed at purging the Christians from Islamic Terrorist'istan


Are you still posting this 10 year old video from a fake Christian site?


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Was Convicted Palestinian-American Rasmea Yousef Odeh Allowed a Fair Defense? *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya' Allah. Another conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel tortures Palestinians into confessions then runs those confessions down to their kangaroo courts where they get a virtually 100% conviction rate. This is not a conspiracy theory. This has been well documented for many decades. There has even been a US report on this consistent practice.
Click to expand...

*Why is the Government Going after a Torture Victim? *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Is PMW your only source. That is an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is PMW your only source. That is an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...

Is deflection and denial your only tactic?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is PMW your only source. That is an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection and denial your only tactic?
Click to expand...

At least I do not single source all of my posts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is PMW your only source. That is an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection and denial your only tactic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At least I do not single source all of my posts.
Click to expand...


You're the hero of the ummah.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Where is the Palestinian Gandhi?

*Mustafa Barghouti Interview on Apartheid, Obama, Netanyahu, BDS, Nonviolence, Human Rights *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Still single sourcing all of your posts to an Israeli propaganda site, I see.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on UNSC resolution on Israeli settlements *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still single sourcing all of your posts to an Israeli propaganda site, I see.
Click to expand...

Still islamo-tap dancing around the fact of the Islamist Death Cult I see.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Are you running out of Propaganda videos? You posted this subject several times.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Rana Abu Diab*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


When Israel ends its war, that won't happen.


----------



## Hollie

Bride of "Frankenstein". An islamist monster.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*APARTHEID Israel Palestine - Endless conflict Interview w. Diana Butto *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Bride of "Frankenstein". An islamist monster.


Israel starts a war then whines about the blow back.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bride of "Frankenstein". An islamist monster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel starts a war then whines about the blow back.
Click to expand...


Befuddled as usual.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> Befuddled as usual.


Indeed!

Please remember this post as it is your first honest post since I have been posting here. Thank-you and keep up the good work.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bride of "Frankenstein". An islamist monster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel starts a war then whines about the blow back.
Click to expand...


Actually Israel lives and develops further and creates value.
Palestinians on the other hand develop their professional victimhood:


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Befuddled as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Please remember this post as it is your first honest post since I have been posting here. Thank-you and keep up the good work.
Click to expand...


Thank you. Myself and others enjoy watching your self-humiliation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel could stop those rockets today if they wanted to. But they don't.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes in Israel.
Click to expand...


Especially the Islamic terrorists. 

It's never surprising that your heroes are typically Islamic terrorist social misfits connected to the most extreme Joooo hating Islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Especially the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> It's never surprising that your heroes are typically Islamic terrorist social misfits connected to the most extreme Joooo hating Islamic terrorist franchises.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that she was a staunch supporter of Bernie Sanders for president.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Especially the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> It's never surprising that your heroes are typically Islamic terrorist social misfits connected to the most extreme Joooo hating Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to mention that she was a staunch supporter of Bernie Sanders for president.
Click to expand...


And who cares?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Especially the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> It's never surprising that your heroes are typically Islamic terrorist social misfits connected to the most extreme Joooo hating Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to mention that she was a staunch supporter of Bernie Sanders for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And who cares?
Click to expand...

Only those who want to catch you in your constant lies.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Especially the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> It's never surprising that your heroes are typically Islamic terrorist social misfits connected to the most extreme Joooo hating Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to mention that she was a staunch supporter of Bernie Sanders for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And who cares?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only those who want to catch you in your constant lies.
Click to expand...


Which you haven't, you angry little wannabe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Germany: Activists hold pro-Palestinian rally in Berlin ahead of Nakba day *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Wasn't she a refugee wanting to go back to her home?

Sounds like a simple enough problem to solve.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't she a refugee wanting to go back to her home?
> 
> Sounds like a simple enough problem to solve.
Click to expand...


Problem solving the Islamic terrorist way.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult Talk show.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't she a refugee wanting to go back to her home?
> 
> Sounds like a simple enough problem to solve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Problem solving the Islamic terrorist way.
Click to expand...

Israel can choose to let the refugees back home or have its people killed.

Israel chooses to have its people killed.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't she a refugee wanting to go back to her home?
> 
> Sounds like a simple enough problem to solve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Problem solving the Islamic terrorist way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can choose to let the refugees back home or have its people killed.
> 
> Israel chooses to have its people killed.
Click to expand...

Then the solution is simple.

The Israelis must wipe out those seeking to kill them.

Sounds like grand fun.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't she a refugee wanting to go back to her home?
> 
> Sounds like a simple enough problem to solve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Problem solving the Islamic terrorist way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can choose to let the refugees back home or have its people killed.
> 
> Israel chooses to have its people killed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then the solution is simple.
> 
> The Israelis must wipe out those seeking to kill them.
> 
> Sounds like grand fun.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians outside of Palestine are a bigger threat than those still inside.

Israel's great killing machine is a detriment in that context.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't she a refugee wanting to go back to her home?
> 
> Sounds like a simple enough problem to solve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Problem solving the Islamic terrorist way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can choose to let the refugees back home or have its people killed.
> 
> Israel chooses to have its people killed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then the solution is simple.
> 
> The Israelis must wipe out those seeking to kill them.
> 
> Sounds like grand fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians outside of Palestine are a bigger threat than those still inside.
> 
> Israel's great killing machine is a detriment in that context.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorists, so-called Pal'istanian or otherwise certainly are a threat.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian killed by sniper.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian killed by sniper.



Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian killed by sniper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
Click to expand...

Jewish terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Abbas is irrelevant. He doesn't represent anybody.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He doesn't represent anybody.
Click to expand...


Except the people he represents. 

As the self-designated spokes-turban for the West Bank version of _Pal'istanian Welfare Fraud Intl., Inc.,_ you might want to abdicate your title and assign it to one of the West Bank islamo-crooks cashing a welfare check.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian killed by sniper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jewish terrorism carries consequences.
Click to expand...


Plagiarism makes you a complete buffoon. 

But then, you're a serial buffoon.


----------



## Hollie

Aww. It makes you miss those days when the Islamic terrorist free-for-all caused those angry, competing mini-caliphate'ists to mow each down in the streets.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The rise of Palestinian citizen journalists in Gaza *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


WOW so many terrorist card played by an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW so many terrorist card played by an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...

Ya' Allah. Such de'Nile on the part of the Islamist terrorist Pom Pom flailer.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You're a Shirley Temper groupie, right?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Blue Between Sky and Water - by Susan Abulhawa *


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Electronic Intifada's Ali Abunimah on Israel & the UN *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour on Islamaphobes attacking her for being invited to give CUNY commencement speech*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel could stop those rockets today if they wanted to. But they don't.
Click to expand...


Do tell.


----------



## montelatici

End the occupation/blockade.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> End the occupation/blockade.



How will we know the occupation/blockade is ended?


----------



## Shusha

What are the consequences for the Gazans if they continue to attack after the occupation/blockade is ended?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> End the occupation/blockade.



End Islamic terrorism.  Maybe you could bring that up after Friday prayers at the madrassah. 


The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).


----------



## P F Tinmore

At PayPal delivering 180,000 petitions and activists, leaders and community members speak and eventually we were able to hear from PayPal - (minute 18.40).


So, why is it that they do not serve Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'Welcome to the Facebook Generation' - Zena Agha *

**


----------



## Hollie

Iinda Sarsour - Islamic terrorist wannabe


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Iinda Sarsour - Islamic terrorist wannabe


 Everybody is a terrorist to those Israeli fuckers.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The bag lady / Islamic terrorist sympathizer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Let the haters hate. If you do not get a lot of push back, you are not doing a good job.


----------



## Hollie

Let the haters hate. That would certainly apply to your Islamic terrorist heroes. 


SERIOUS BULLSH*T OF LINDA


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Islam - breeding the next litter of disposable islamo-bots.

"To war that will smash the oppressor and destroy the Zionist's soul" - PMW Bulletins

*"To war that will smash the oppressor
and destroy the Zionist's soul"*

*Once again, a young child recites poem calling for war
on PA TV kids' program.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islam'istan. It's where people go to hate themselves and hate each other.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Interview with the next generation of Islamic Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The issue of Islamic Death Cultists - the next litter.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Wore the Veil" ( Eu Usei o Véu ) - Um Poema por Farah Chamma. *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cultists in training.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Child care - of the Islamic terrorist kind.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cultists - Breeding the Clones


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Abused children of the Islamist Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Better they target islamics than targeting all those violent, radical Lutherans.


----------



## Hollie

Muhammed (swish) said "get'em while they're young"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist "Kill the Jews" week... well actually, Islamic terrorists and child abuse is an everyday occurrence.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hitler Youth in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Growing up in Nazi-islam.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Def Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit, I see.


----------



## Hollie

Growing up in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Against Israel's Colonial Tide: Palestinian Initiatives to Shape Their Future *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Growing up in the Death Cult


What dumbshit lies about that the Palestinian map is geographically correct.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Growing up in the Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbshit lies about that the Palestinian map is geographically correct.
Click to expand...


Arab-moslem terrorist dumbshits?


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - building a better future.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## fanger

Life Before the Expulsion in Palestine


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Life Before the Expulsion in Palestine


Shame on those A-rabs starting a war.


----------



## fanger

Shame on those illegal immigrant J-Ews invading Palestine
_*Aliyah Bet*_ (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions,
Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Shame on those illegal immigrant J-Ews invading Palestine
> _*Aliyah Bet*_ (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions,
> Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia



It's actually comical to watch you cut and paste / plagiarize from wiki and other sources anyone can edit.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shame on those illegal immigrant J-Ews invading Palestine
> _*Aliyah Bet*_ (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions,
> Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually comical to watch you cut and paste / plagiarize from wiki and other sources anyone can edit.
Click to expand...

Well this one will make you piss yourself laughing...it's jewish
*ALIYAH BET*



_Aliyah Bet_ is the Hebrew term that refers to the clandestine immigration of Jews to Palestine between 1920 and 1948, when Great Britain controlled the area.

The Hebrew word "aliyah" (literally, "ascent") commonly refers to immigration to the Land of Israel, while "bet" (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter "B") here implies something unofficial or secret. The phrase Aliyah Bet describes the movement of Jewish refugees, many of them survivors of theHolocaust, not permitted to enter Palestine by the British authorities. Initiated by Zionist activists as the urgency for Jews to leave Europe intensified, this phenomenon was referred to by the British as "illegal" immigration. 
Aliyah Bet


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shame on those illegal immigrant J-Ews invading Palestine
> _*Aliyah Bet*_ (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions,
> Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually comical to watch you cut and paste / plagiarize from wiki and other sources anyone can edit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well this one will make you piss yourself laughing...it's jewish
> *ALIYAH BET*
> 
> 
> _Aliyah Bet_ is the Hebrew term that refers to the clandestine immigration of Jews to Palestine between 1920 and 1948, when Great Britain controlled the area.
> 
> The Hebrew word "aliyah" (literally, "ascent") commonly refers to immigration to the Land of Israel, while "bet" (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter "B") here implies something unofficial or secret. The phrase Aliyah Bet describes the movement of Jewish refugees, many of them survivors of theHolocaust, not permitted to enter Palestine by the British authorities. Initiated by Zionist activists as the urgency for Jews to leave Europe intensified, this phenomenon was referred to by the British as "illegal" immigration.
> Aliyah Bet
Click to expand...


Doesn't make sense.

Cut and paste it again .


----------



## fanger

Approximately 80,000 _illegal immigrants_ reached _Palestine _during 1945-48.
Aliyah Bet (1939-1948)

Amazing how they ever found Palestine, if (as your oft to imply) it was never there?


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shame on those illegal immigrant J-Ews invading Palestine
> _*Aliyah Bet*_ (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions,
> Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually comical to watch you cut and paste / plagiarize from wiki and other sources anyone can edit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well this one will make you piss yourself laughing...it's jewish
> *ALIYAH BET*
> _Aliyah Bet_ is the Hebrew term that refers to the clandestine immigration of Jews to Palestine between 1920 and 1948, when Great Britain controlled the area.
> 
> The Hebrew word "aliyah" (literally, "ascent") commonly refers to immigration to the Land of Israel, while "bet" (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter "B") here implies something unofficial or secret. The phrase Aliyah Bet describes the movement of Jewish refugees, many of them survivors of theHolocaust, not permitted to enter Palestine by the British authorities. Initiated by Zionist activists as the urgency for Jews to leave Europe intensified, this phenomenon was referred to by the British as "illegal" immigration.
> Aliyah Bet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't make sense.
> 
> Cut and paste it again .
Click to expand...

While you never bring a link to back up your opinion, it remain just that the Hollow opinion of Hollow Hollie


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shame on those illegal immigrant J-Ews invading Palestine
> _*Aliyah Bet*_ (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions,
> Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually comical to watch you cut and paste / plagiarize from wiki and other sources anyone can edit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well this one will make you piss yourself laughing...it's jewish
> *ALIYAH BET*
> _Aliyah Bet_ is the Hebrew term that refers to the clandestine immigration of Jews to Palestine between 1920 and 1948, when Great Britain controlled the area.
> 
> The Hebrew word "aliyah" (literally, "ascent") commonly refers to immigration to the Land of Israel, while "bet" (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter "B") here implies something unofficial or secret. The phrase Aliyah Bet describes the movement of Jewish refugees, many of them survivors of theHolocaust, not permitted to enter Palestine by the British authorities. Initiated by Zionist activists as the urgency for Jews to leave Europe intensified, this phenomenon was referred to by the British as "illegal" immigration.
> Aliyah Bet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't make sense.
> 
> Cut and paste it again .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While you never bring a link to back up your opinion, it remain just that the Hollow opinion of Hollow Hollie
Click to expand...


I knew you would shuffle off.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## louie888

fanger said:


> It's actually comical to watch you cut and paste / plagiarize from wiki and other sources anyone can edit.


Well this one will make you piss yourself laughing...it's jewish
*ALIYAH BET*


_Aliyah Bet_ is the Hebrew term that refers to the clandestine immigration of Jews to Palestine between 1920 and 1948, when Great Britain controlled the area.

The Hebrew word "aliyah" (literally, "ascent") commonly refers to immigration to the Land of Israel, while "bet" (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter "B") here implies something unofficial or secret. The phrase Aliyah Bet describes the movement of Jewish refugees, many of them survivors of theHolocaust, not permitted to enter Palestine by the British authorities. Initiated by Zionist activists as the urgency for Jews to leave Europe intensified, this phenomenon was referred to by the British as "illegal" immigration.
Aliyah Bet[/QUOTE]
Wow, this in itself destroys the whole Palestine never existed thing.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


>


I think she was being too polite... "*Fuck you Israel*" would have been shorter


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Approximately 80,000 _illegal immigrants_ reached _Palestine _during 1945-48.
> Aliyah Bet (1939-1948)
> 
> Amazing how they ever found Palestine, if (as your oft to imply) it was never there?


You're, is the term "you're" befuddled with.

As you and others are quick to define "your" Magical Kingdom of Disney I mean Pally'land as a "country", I suppose advising you that Pal'istan was a geographic area, not a "country" will leave you slack-jawed and utterly befuddled.

Now would be a good time to steal material from elsewhere and post it as your own.


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think she was being too polite... "*Fuck you Israel*" would have been shorter
Click to expand...

You would still be a loser.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Shirley Temper - lite.


----------



## louie888

P F Tinmore said:


>


I love little Janna. She's truly incredible.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love little Janna. She's truly incredible.
Click to expand...


Abusing female children - good enough for Mo', (swish), good enough for you.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love little Janna. She's truly incredible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abusing female children - good enough for Mo', (swish), good enough for you.
Click to expand...

The only abuse she will get will be from Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza takes on Cannes film festival*







Gaza is a place of limitation. Yet, once in a while, a ray of optimism (or at least escapism) breaks through the decade-long blockade.

Friday 12 May saw a 100-metre long red carpet rolled out for the annual Festival of Human Rights Films in Gaza City Port where over 40 films were shown over the weekend.

Gaza’s main port was transformed into a film fest extravaganza where thousands of residents had the chance to strut their stuff down a red carpet.

Gaza takes on Cannes film festival


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The assholes strike again.*


----------



## Hollie

I


P F Tinmore said:


> *The assholes strike again.*




They sure do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ghada Karmi at the Edinburgh International Book Festival *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Holding Israel Accountable From Bottom Up: What You Can Do | Interview with Rania Khalek 

*


----------



## Hollie

Kids of the muhammedan Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dima Khalidi*


----------



## P F Tinmore

* RASHID KHALIDI*


----------



## Hollie

Monsters of the Death Cult


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


The problem is that all these Israeli lying sacks of shit say they left Gaza and offered the Palestinians most of the West Bank.

Israel=bullshit


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mohammed Qraiqae






He has been called the "Picasso of Palestine" - but the teenager, who rejects this title, deserves it nonetheless. Mohammed Qraiqae uses art to channel the suffering and pain he experienced growing up under constant threat from Israeli soldiers and bombs in Gaza.

His art has been featured across the United States, and he's already met with politicians and leaders from around the world, helping raise global awareness through art about the suffering of his people.

"I am [a] quiet boy and reflect my madness only in my paintings," Qraiqae told Middle East Eye in 2016.

Taking up drawing at the tender age of 5, Qraiqae pursued his passion despite shelling, airstrikes, and the daily reality of living under Israeli occupation.

Our list of the top 20 Arab activists for 2017


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli goontard punches woman in the face.


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult - Bringing hatred and misery for 1,400 years


----------



## fanger

Palwatch.org - Ilan Mazuz, 61 Malchei st Netivot, Israel
one mans opinion


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Palwatch.org - Ilan Mazuz, 61 Malchei st Netivot, Israel
> one mans opinion



Just one plagiarists opinion.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palwatch.org - Ilan Mazuz, 61 Malchei st Netivot, Israel
> one mans opinion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one plagiarists opinion.
Click to expand...

Probably true, but do you have any proof or a link to confirm Ilan Mazuz has Plagiarized someone else's words?


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palwatch.org - Ilan Mazuz, 61 Malchei st Netivot, Israel
> one mans opinion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one plagiarists opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably true, but do you have any proof or a link to confirm Ilan Mazuz has Plagiarized someone else's words?
Click to expand...

No. You don't either.

On the other hand, your plagiarizing of Juan Cole (and the other site), leaves you as a dishonest, laughable joke.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palwatch.org - Ilan Mazuz, 61 Malchei st Netivot, Israel
> one mans opinion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one plagiarists opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably true, but do you have any proof or a link to confirm Ilan Mazuz has Plagiarized someone else's words?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You don't either.
> 
> On the other hand, your plagiarizing of Juan Cole (and the other site), leaves you as a dishonest, laughable joke.
Click to expand...

Quote an example of me claiming Juan Cole's work as mine, or cease and desist in your Libel


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palwatch.org - Ilan Mazuz, 61 Malchei st Netivot, Israel
> one mans opinion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one plagiarists opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably true, but do you have any proof or a link to confirm Ilan Mazuz has Plagiarized someone else's words?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You don't either.
> 
> On the other hand, your plagiarizing of Juan Cole (and the other site), leaves you as a dishonest, laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote an example of me claiming Juan Cole's work as mine, or cease and desist in your Libel
Click to expand...

Already did. 

Do a search.


----------



## fanger

No you Didn't, and I'm not going to run around looking for some "proof" that you didn't post, you are a liar and a Libeler


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> No you Didn't, you are a liar and a Libeler



You poor, dear. You can't escape your own fraud and plagiarism.


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> No you Didn't, and I'm not going to run around looking for some "proof" that you didn't post, you are a liar and a Libeler



Fanger'ism is the extremist idea that you can steal from someone else's blog and fraudulently represent it as your own.


----------



## fanger

Have you stopped beating your Girlfriend?


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Have you stopped beating your Girlfriend?



You can dance all you wish, plagiarist.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you Didn't, and I'm not going to run around looking for some "proof" that you didn't post, you are a liar and a Libeler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fanger'ism is the extremist idea that you can steal from someone else's blog and fraudulently represent it as your own.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you Didn't, and I'm not going to run around looking for some "proof" that you didn't post, you are a liar and a Libeler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fanger'ism is the extremist idea that you can steal from someone else's blog and fraudulently represent it as your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You're dancing, now. Do a search for Juan Cole. I'll help you in a bit. It's funny to watch you wearing your islamo-dancing shoes, plagiarist.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you Didn't, and I'm not going to run around looking for some "proof" that you didn't post, you are a liar and a Libeler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fanger'ism is the extremist idea that you can steal from someone else's blog and fraudulently represent it as your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're dancing, now. Do a search for Juan Cole. I'll help you in a bit. It's funny to watch you wearing your islamo-dancing shoes, plagiarist.
Click to expand...

You are the one making the claim, you should post proof of your accusation, you won't because you cant


----------



## fanger

Your posts are hollow hollie, and your stupidity is stupendous


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Your posts are hollow hollie, and your stupidity is stupendous



Resorting to name-calling. You're losin' it. 

I gave you an assignment to post the link to your plagiarism. Do it now.


----------



## fanger

Go fuck yourself, I gave you a simple request, back up you claim via a link, you havent done that and can't


----------



## Hollie

OOPS


fanger said:


> Go fuck yourself, I gave you a simple request, back up you claim via a link, you havent done that and can't




Such an angry plagiarist. You know the thread still exists. Post the link


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> OOPS
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go fuck yourself, I gave you a simple request, back up you claim via a link, you havent done that and can't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such an angry plagiarist. You know the thread still exists. Post the link
Click to expand...

Post what doesn't exit, if it did you would have posted it by now, quit doing your JAP dance and post a link


----------



## fanger

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

back on track,
How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> OOPS
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go fuck yourself, I gave you a simple request, back up you claim via a link, you havent done that and can't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such an angry plagiarist. You know the thread still exists. Post the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post what doesn't exit, if it did you would have posted it by now, quit doing your JAP dance and post a link
Click to expand...


Such an angry plagiarist. I understand you're not at all embarrassed about being a dishonest hack. 

Post the link, plagiarist.


----------



## fanger

You would post a link yourself, if you had one, together with a link to someone else's post, as you claim but you can't because you are a lying hack


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> You would post a link yourself, if you had one, together with a link to someone else's post, as you claim but you can't because you are a lying hack



I guess you missed the link? 

Really, you dishonest hack, did you think your plagiarism would not go unnoticed?


----------



## fanger

Your Libel is noted, you fail to post a link to your wild claim


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Your Libel is noted, you fail to post a link to your wild claim



Such an angry plagiarist. Your defending such dishonesty is noted now as it was when you first hoped to islamo-tap dance around your plagiarism.


----------



## fanger

I'm off to eat, we're having roast pork, it smells like nothing you could imagine, well you could imagine, as it toasts in the oven, should I save some crackling for you?


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> I'm off to eat, we're having roast pork, it smells like nothing you could imagine, well you could imagine, as it toasts in the oven, should I save some crackling for you?



Be sure to let us know how it feels to be a plagiarist who denies his own dishonesty.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm off to eat, we're having roast pork, it smells like nothing you could imagine, well you could imagine, as it toasts in the oven, should I save some crackling for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to let us know how it feels to be a plagiarist who denies his own dushonesty.
Click to expand...

Learn to spell, and go boil a bunny


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm off to eat, we're having roast pork, it smells like nothing you could imagine, well you could imagine, as it toasts in the oven, should I save some crackling for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to let us know how it feels to be a plagiarist who denies his own dushonesty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learn to spell, and go boil a bunny
Click to expand...


Learn not to plagiarize and then deny your dishonest behavior.


----------



## fanger

fuck off bunny boiler


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> fuck off bunny boiler



Such an angry plagiarist. Why get pissy with me when your plagiarism and dishonesty is the cause of your anger and frustration.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


It is not up to me, or to you, to criticize how people resist their occupiers.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not up to me, or to you, to criticize how people resist their occupiers.
Click to expand...


Your phony "occupiers" slogan is as phony now as before. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have been given multiple opportuniies for self governance in the context of the modern, relevant first world but like the rest of the Islamist Middle East, can't seem to manage that task.

It is up to me and anyone with a conscience to make value judgements about ideologies. So, copy and paste your usual pointless slogans and silly YouTube videos to explain the failures and ineptitudes that define the Joooos, the _Great Satan_™ and all the other bogeymen you create to defend the failures of islamist societies. Make your usual excuses for the rampant abuse of human rights, anti-Semitism, religious intolerance, violent Islamic terror, economic stagnation, illiteracy, gender apartheid, and corrupt totalitarian regimes which are routine in the Muhammedan world which are all the direct result of someone else’s fault. 

You must have a YouTube video, right?


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not up to me, or to you, to criticize how people resist their occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your phony "occupiers" slogan is as phony now as before. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have been given multiple opportuniies for self governance in the context of the modern, relevant first world but like the rest of the Islamist Middle East, can't seem to manage that task.
> 
> It is up to me and anyone with a conscience to make value judgements about ideologies. So, copy and paste your usual pointless slogans and silly YouTube videos to explain the failures and ineptitudes that define the Joooos, the _Great Satan_™ and all the other bogeymen you create to defend the failures of islamist societies. Make your usual excuses for the rampant abuse of human rights, anti-Semitism, religious intolerance, violent Islamic terror, economic stagnation, illiteracy, gender apartheid, and corrupt totalitarian regimes which are routine in the Muhammedan world which are all the direct result of someone else’s fault.
> 
> You must have a YouTube video, right?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Your Islamic terrorist heroes have been given multiple opportuniies for self governance



More Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not up to me, or to you, to criticize how people resist their occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your phony "occupiers" slogan is as phony now as before. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have been given multiple opportuniies for self governance in the context of the modern, relevant first world but like the rest of the Islamist Middle East, can't seem to manage that task.
> 
> It is up to me and anyone with a conscience to make value judgements about ideologies. So, copy and paste your usual pointless slogans and silly YouTube videos to explain the failures and ineptitudes that define the Joooos, the _Great Satan_™ and all the other bogeymen you create to defend the failures of islamist societies. Make your usual excuses for the rampant abuse of human rights, anti-Semitism, religious intolerance, violent Islamic terror, economic stagnation, illiteracy, gender apartheid, and corrupt totalitarian regimes which are routine in the Muhammedan world which are all the direct result of someone else’s fault.
> 
> You must have a YouTube video, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes have been given multiple opportuniies for self governance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...


More of your ineptitudes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.


Ooooo, terrorists. 

More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit.
Click to expand...


More angry muhammedan drivel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More angry muhammedan drivel.
Click to expand...

How often do you post without playing the terrorist card?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More angry muhammedan drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How often do you post without playing the terrorist card?
Click to expand...


How often do you post glorifying Islamic terrorists... often, the now very dead ones.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More angry muhammedan drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How often do you post without playing the terrorist card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How often do you post glorifying Islamic terrorists... often, the now very dead ones.
Click to expand...

Nice duck. You always pimp Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists - legitimizing Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More angry muhammedan drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How often do you post without playing the terrorist card?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How often do you post glorifying Islamic terrorists... often, the now very dead ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck. You always pimp Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit.
Click to expand...

Nice Dodge. You always make heroes of Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*How Media Beats The Drums Of War, Discredits Alternative Voices | Mnar Muhawesh *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## fanger




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Daoud Nassar*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Fida Qishta


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Like all main stream media stooges, the host keeps pounding on Israeli talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

Well according to Montelatici's linked study, Gazan's and Jews are actually very close, they have common ancestors- Lebanese Egyptian and Cretans.
However the study didn't include any Palestinians outside Gaza - the historic territory of the Philistines.



Let's see what reaction it triggers


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism - the Pal'istan we know


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult faith, fashion and fusion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi, "The Side of Peace: A Personal Account" (Ford Hall Forum, 1995) *

*The so called peace process as of 1995.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

As I understand, per Montelatici's study- a part of Gazan Palestinians are the closest brothers of the Jews, before any other people in the area.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mustafa Barghouti*

REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers



Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?

In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.

Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?
> 
> In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.
> 
> Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?
Click to expand...

I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.

Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.

Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?
> 
> In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.
> 
> Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.
> 
> Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.
> 
> Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.
Click to expand...


So no proof yet? 

Again Barghouti clan power struggle against other Palestinian clans... You're naive.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?
> 
> In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.
> 
> Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.
> 
> Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.
> 
> Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So no proof yet?
> 
> Again Barghouti clan power struggle against other Palestinian clans... You're naive.
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof of that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?
> 
> In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.
> 
> Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.
> 
> Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.
> 
> Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So no proof yet?
> 
> Again Barghouti clan power struggle against other Palestinian clans... You're naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of that?
Click to expand...


pft You Yourself say Abbas is no the leader of the Palestinians.
Do You need the proof there're Palestinian clans who control separate areas and towns?

Really?? I thought You knew Palestinians.

And still no proof from You.... I'll prove it after You respect my initial request, then we'll proceed...or You'll just go back to Your usual  cut n' paste of Palestinian propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> REPLAY Presidential candidate alleges assault by Israeli soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?
> 
> In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.
> 
> Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.
> 
> Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.
> 
> Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So no proof yet?
> 
> Again Barghouti clan power struggle against other Palestinian clans... You're naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pft You Yourself say Abbas is no the leader of the Palestinians.
> Do You need the proof there're Palestinian clans who control separate areas and towns?
> 
> Really?? I thought You knew Palestinians.
> 
> And still no proof from You.... I'll prove it after You respect my initial request, then we'll proceed...or You'll just go back to Your usual  cut n' paste of Palestinian propaganda.
Click to expand...

What do you want proof of?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do You actually have a video of the incident. Or is it another one of the Barghouti clan struggles for control?
> 
> In other words, he looks totally uninjured, not a sign of violence.
> 
> Why should we take the word of an Israeli, who studies in Israel and at the same time promotes boycotting Israel and its' universities?
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.
> 
> Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.
> 
> Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So no proof yet?
> 
> Again Barghouti clan power struggle against other Palestinian clans... You're naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pft You Yourself say Abbas is no the leader of the Palestinians.
> Do You need the proof there're Palestinian clans who control separate areas and towns?
> 
> Really?? I thought You knew Palestinians.
> 
> And still no proof from You.... I'll prove it after You respect my initial request, then we'll proceed...or You'll just go back to Your usual  cut n' paste of Palestinian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you want proof of?
Click to expand...


post #4811


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen several reports of this from various sources. This was the 2005 presidential election. The reports said that he suffered a broken knee.
> 
> Israel and the US wanted Abbas so he was given money and other support for his campaign. Israel allowed Abbas to travel freely to campaign while Barghouti was detained, beaten, and arrested.
> 
> Why they wanted Abbas and not Barghouti.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So no proof yet?
> 
> Again Barghouti clan power struggle against other Palestinian clans... You're naive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pft You Yourself say Abbas is no the leader of the Palestinians.
> Do You need the proof there're Palestinian clans who control separate areas and towns?
> 
> Really?? I thought You knew Palestinians.
> 
> And still no proof from You.... I'll prove it after You respect my initial request, then we'll proceed...or You'll just go back to Your usual  cut n' paste of Palestinian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you want proof of?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> post #4811
Click to expand...

*Foreign Interference*ï¿½

Israel’s treatment of Dr. Barghouthi and his campaigners, when contrasted to its handling of the Abbas campaign, provides further evidence to which candidate benefits whom.ï¿½ When Dr. Barghouthi campaigned in East Jerusalem, he was detained for several hours.ï¿½ Just last week, he was beaten up at an Israeli checkpoint for coming to the aid of one of his campaigners who was being harassed by the Israeli soldiers.ï¿½ And a few days ago,ï¿½a 17 year-old volunteer was shot dead asï¿½he put up campaign posters in a Gaza refugee camp.ï¿½ Abbas and his campaigners, on the other hand, enjoy unrestricted movement within and without the occupied territories.

The U.S., Britain, and the Arab states have also been actively supporting Abbas.ï¿½ U.S. officials have been coordinating with Abbas when an official visit might be most suitable to boost him, and British Prime Minister Blair has reportedly made his proposed conference contingent on Abbas winning the election.ï¿½ Arab leaders also prefer someone who will preserve the status quo, and Egyptian President Husni Mubarak (who has recently announced his confidence in Sharonï¿½s desire for peace) has openly stated his preference for Abbas.ï¿½ And of course, the international media has given Abbas immensely greater coverage.

Dr. Barghouthi notes that the U.S. and Israel “are trying to force a particular candidate on us. It’s very strange, because all the people who are running as candidates in these coming elections are pro-peace: so why would they prefer one person to another? If they are just looking for someone who will give in to them, then that person will fail to represent the Palestinian people. I am planning to represent our people, not anybody else’s interests.”

Palestinian Elections ï¿½ Charting the Palestinian Future


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult


----------



## Hollie

Islam - Men in Ski Masks


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muslim Refugees Sheltered by Gaza City Church *


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult child enrichment.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Muhammud the social misfit.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Digging out the Islamist terrorist tunnel rats academies.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


The old will die and the young will forget.

*Not!*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Oh jeese, another Ziowood Productions video.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Farah Nabulsi


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the muhammedan Death Cultists?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult Child Enrichment


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Urgent appeal from Gaza to the citizens of the world, Help us! - Noor Harazeen *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Larissa Sansour, creating a Palestinian state with Science Fiction *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab*


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult Kids


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar speaks on Israeli Restrictions, Collective Punishments and Palestinian Resistance. *

**


----------



## Hollie

IDF speaks to Islamic terrorist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Ghada Karmi*


----------



## Hollie

How do you define retrogression?


----------



## Hollie

A Day in The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*

Israel Attacks Syria prefers al-Qaeda and ISIS


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dima Khalidi: Pressures on universities to discipline students & faculty for speech activities. *

**


----------



## Hollie

The Gaping Maw of the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lubna Masarwa*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Yousef Munayyer: "We are the only people on earth that asked to guarantee security for our occupier"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Malaka Mohammed


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Mnar Muhawesh of Mint Press News*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Then again, are illegal settlers living on stolen land innocent civilians?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, are illegal settlers living on stolen land innocent civilians?
Click to expand...


Then again, just more of your usual slogans.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Good video, thanks.

A response to Israel's crimes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good video, thanks.
> 
> A response to Israel's crimes.
Click to expand...


What crimes?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good video, thanks.
> 
> A response to Israel's crimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What crimes?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Came by boat from where?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good video, thanks.
> 
> A response to Israel's crimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What crimes?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

The forever UNRWA Welfare Fraud


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The forever UNRWA Welfare Fraud


The Palestinians are taught the truth.

Israel always had a serious problem with the truth.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The forever UNRWA Welfare Fraud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are taught the truth.
> 
> Israel always had a serious problem with the truth.
Click to expand...


Yes. Islamic terrorist welfare fraud is certainly a truth.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


You posted fucks news.

You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted fucks news.
> 
> You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Click to expand...


You poor, angry wannabe. You are just incensed that your Islamic terrorist heroes are exposed as welfare cheats.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted fucks news.
> 
> You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor, angry wannabe. You are just incensed that your Islamic terrorist heroes are welfare cheats.
Click to expand...

Nobody was on welfare until Israel stole their stuff.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Who is this lying sack of shit.

No preconditions?

Israel's precondition is to keep everything it has stolen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is this lying sack of shit.
> 
> No preconditions?
> 
> Israel's precondition is to keep everything it has stolen.
Click to expand...


Aww. You poor, angry Islamic terrorist hugger.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

What Islamic terrorist welfare fraud actually buys.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization.

When Palestinians are allowed to return...poof... no more UNRWA.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> When Palestinians are allowed to return...poof... no more UNRWA.
Click to expand...


Your islamo-fantasies are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

The UNRWA welfare fraud. 

Making Islamic terrorists, one litter at a time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


By "innocent Israelis" do they mean illegal settlers?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is this lying sack of shit.
> 
> No preconditions?
> 
> Israel's precondition is to keep everything it has stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww. You poor, angry Islamic terrorist hugger.
Click to expand...

Ooooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is this lying sack of shit.
> 
> No preconditions?
> 
> Israel's precondition is to keep everything it has stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww. You poor, angry Islamic terrorist hugger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


All your usual slogans. 

Your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended. 

It's good to offend Islamic terrorist huggers.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is this lying sack of shit.
> 
> No preconditions?
> 
> Israel's precondition is to keep everything it has stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww. You poor, angry Islamic terrorist hugger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All your usual slogans.
> 
> Your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended.
> 
> It's good to offend Islamic terrorist huggers.
Click to expand...

Another terrorist card.

You are on a roll.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The disease of Islamism shared by Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians"


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar speaks on Israeli Restrictions, Collective Punishments and Palestinian Resistance. *


----------



## P F Tinmore

*March 5th 2012: Student organizing and movement building in the global campaign for BDS *

A public lecture and discussion with YAFA JARRAR


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MSNBC's Sole Palestinian Voice Rula Jebreal Takes on Pro-Israeli Gov't Bias at Network & in US Media *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Session 14A Capitalizing on the changing American sentiment toward Israeli aggression *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Arab Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*On Contact: Israel’s Secret Weapons with Rania Khalek *


----------



## Hollie

The Arab Death Cult


----------



## Hollie

Arab Death Cult  - Losers in Life, Losers in Death


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Inductees to the Arab Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Yousef Munayyer*


----------



## Hollie

Muhammud, his brother muhammud, his other brother muhammud, his other, other brother muhammud, his cousin muhammud, his other 18 cousins muhammud....


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


 Stand with us is a bought and paid for Israeli bullshit propaganda organization.

It would take its own thread to pull the lies out of this one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stand with us is a bought and paid for Israeli bullshit propaganda organization.
> 
> It would take its own thread to pull the lies out of this one.
Click to expand...


Just your usual whining.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stand with us is a bought and paid for Israeli bullshit propaganda organization.
> 
> It would take its own thread to pull the lies out of this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just your usual whining.
Click to expand...

More shit in there than an outhouse.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stand with us is a bought and paid for Israeli bullshit propaganda organization.
> 
> It would take its own thread to pull the lies out of this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just your usual whining.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More shit in there than an outhouse.
Click to expand...


You're certainly an authority on excrement and outhouses.


----------



## Hollie

Al-ski mask Arab islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Al-ski mask Arab islamic terrorists


Does Israel provide you with all of those terrorist cards or do you have to buy your own?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stand with us is a bought and paid for Israeli bullshit propaganda organization.
> 
> It would take its own thread to pull the lies out of this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just your usual whining.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More shit in there than an outhouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're certainly an authority on excrement and outhouses.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-ski mask Arab islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel provide you with all of those terrorist cards or do you have to buy your own?
Click to expand...


Aww, gee. Your tender al-islamo feelings are al-hurt. 

I'm guessing you're trying to flirt another conspiracy theory... because that's what you do?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-ski mask Arab islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel provide you with all of those terrorist cards or do you have to buy your own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww, gee. Your tender al-islamo feelings are al-hurt.
> 
> I'm guessing you're trying to flirt another conspiracy theory... because that's what you do?
Click to expand...

More deflection.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-ski mask Arab islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel provide you with all of those terrorist cards or do you have to buy your own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww, gee. Your tender al-islamo feelings are al-hurt.
> 
> I'm guessing you're trying to flirt another conspiracy theory... because that's what you do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
Click to expand...


Waving the Arab-Islamist flag of defeat. But then, you're accustomed to that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


If there was never a Palestinian state, what did Jordan illegally occupy between 1949 and 1967?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-ski mask Arab islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel provide you with all of those terrorist cards or do you have to buy your own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww, gee. Your tender al-islamo feelings are al-hurt.
> 
> I'm guessing you're trying to flirt another conspiracy theory... because that's what you do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Waving the Arab-Islamist flag of defeat. But then, you're accustomed to that.
Click to expand...

I was defeated by deflection.

Good point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was never a Palestinian state, what did Jordan illegally occupy between 1949 and 1967?
Click to expand...


Mexico?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was never a Palestinian state, what did Jordan illegally occupy between 1949 and 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mexico?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was never a Palestinian state, what did Jordan illegally occupy between 1949 and 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mexico?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


_Deflection™
_


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was never a Palestinian state, what did Jordan illegally occupy between 1949 and 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mexico?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Deflection™_
Click to expand...

Every question gets ducked.

Is it because you do not know the answer or that you do not like the answer?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was never a Palestinian state, what did Jordan illegally occupy between 1949 and 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mexico?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Deflection™_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every question gets ducked.
> 
> Is it because you do not know the answer or that you do not like the answer?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Shakira La La La Tribute - Radiance Remix Palestine *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

What better to spend your welfare dollars on than building tunnels in the service of arab-islamic terrorism?


----------



## Hollie

The "Prince" of Gaza'istan, at least until....


----------



## fanger

Zionist Dog celebrates airstrike on an old man in a wheelchair?


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Zionist Dog celebrates airstrike on an old man in a wheelchair?



Did Juan Cole write that?


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> What better to spend your welfare dollars on than building tunnels in the service of arab-islamic terrorism?


Here's one the izzy's missed


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Dog celebrates airstrike on an old man in a wheelchair?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did Juan Cole write that?
Click to expand...

I wrote that, you would know, you appear to have a fixation on him


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What better to spend your welfare dollars on than building tunnels in the service of arab-islamic terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one the izzy's missed
Click to expand...



You will enjoy this one:


----------



## fanger

You'll enjoy this one


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> You'll enjoy this one
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available



As opposed to this one?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour claims supporters of Israel are anti-black lives *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*TED Talk - "Challenging the Establishment" | Mnar Muhawesh *


----------



## Hollie

It's always comical to see the the groupies for Islamist fascism are the very groupies who live in the _Great Satan_ and are protected from the very Islamic fascism they flail their Pom Pom for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>





Hollie said:


>


Ooooo, terrorists. 

Is name calling all you got?


----------



## Hollie

Linda Sarsour - Islamic fascist and failure at taqiyya.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
Click to expand...


Your usual cut and paste slogans.

Yes, that's all you've got.


----------



## Hollie

Kildare Sarsour - Islamic terrorist hugger / taqiyya failure


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Lunda Sarsour - Islamist terrorist enabler


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2010 Eqbal Ahmad Lecture • Karma Nabulsi • Hampshire College *

**


----------



## Hollie

Linda Sarsour - Islamic terrorist


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamo-bot Islamic terrorist training.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINIAN LAWYER: JONATHAN KUTTAB; FIDA QISHTA--WORLD CAN'T WAIT*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamo-bot Islamic terrorist training.


Tissue?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamo-bot Islamic terrorist training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
Click to expand...


Over Islamic terrorists and their child abuse?

Nope. It's expected.


----------



## Hollie

Death Cultists in training.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamo-bot Islamic terrorist training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
Click to expand...


Priceless. 'PRO' Palestinian freedom fighter.


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamo-bot Islamic terrorist training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Priceless. 'PRO' Palestinian freedom fighter.
Click to expand...


It's preparing the young Death Cultists to apply themselves in a technical world where jobs and careers depend on education and training in marketable skills. 

Or,

Nah. UNRWA, the Koran and an AK-47 is all any future Hellfire missile target needs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Koranic prophesy.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist training. Get'em while they're young.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Sansour*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PRC Live in Conversation with Randa Abdel-Fattah *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Palestinian women have always been an important part of the resistance.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa - The Blue Between Sky and Water *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian women have always been an important part of the resistance.
Click to expand...

Especially the dead ones.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Palestine is their country too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is their country too.
Click to expand...

Your invented "country of Pal'istan"?


----------



## Hollie

Abusing young female children. There's an entire history of that in the Islamic Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is their country too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your invented "country of Pal'istan"?
Click to expand...

Some people didn't get Israel's bullshit memo.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion show.


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult, in their fashionable ski masks.

Odd how Islamic terrorists find military uniforms for their fashion shows but not when they're waging acts of war. 

What a collection of cowards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorist fashion show.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem female child abuse


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Susan Akram


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist child abuse.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorist child abuse.


More Israeli bullshit propaganda. Capturing on duty foreign soldiers is not kidnapping or terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Because hate and retrogression defines Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel teaching the next generation to hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Teach the little islamo-bots when they're young.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Teach the little islamo-bots when they're young.


----------



## Hollie

Get'em while they're children, especially the little girls. As it was in the 7th century for the inventor of islamism, good enough for today.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist heroes


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorist heroes


Israel is always whining about the blow back from its war.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Monther Jawabreh


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult. Any questions?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult Yearning


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian women’s football team on UK tour*

In what is set to be a nail-biting 90 minutes, Bethlehem based women’s football team - The Diyar Ladies - will travel to Bath, England and put their skills to the test.

When the the Diyar team was founded almost ten years ago, there was no women’s football in Palestine. Now, women’s football is played all across the region and the pioneering team is heading to Liverpool, Leeds and Bristol as part of a friendly UK tour, reported the Bath Chronicle.

Palestinian women’s football team on UK tour


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Tissue?

Occupiers always have problems with security. It comes with the territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel always whines about chickenfeed.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) the most moral army in the world.

Another big fat Israeli lie.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The hidden aftermath of war | Eman Mohammed | TEDxHarvardCollege *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.

Why do you have a problem with that?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorism carries consequences, wherever the Islamic terrorist attacks come from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences, wherever the Islamic terrorist attacks come from.
Click to expand...

Is third grade name calling all you got?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences, wherever the Islamic terrorist attacks come from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is third grade name calling all you got?
Click to expand...


I was simply noting those who fought against islamic terrorism 

Why do you have a problem with that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences, wherever the Islamic terrorist attacks come from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is third grade name calling all you got?
Click to expand...

Is whining all you have?

Noting that attacks by Islamic terrorists have underpinnings in Islamist ideology is just expressing a truth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, he praises those who fought against illegal Zionist colonization.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences, wherever the Islamic terrorist attacks come from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is third grade name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is whining all you have?
> 
> Noting that attacks by Islamic terrorists have underpinnings in Islamist ideology is just expressing a truth.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, more name calling.


----------



## Hollie

Let's celebrate Arab-Moslem "culture"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamist terrorist talking heads.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Amena El Ashkar


----------



## Hollie

Female Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Muhiba Khorshid, a Palestinian woman and the founder of "The Daisy Flower" organization in 1948. The first feminine organization for armed resistance. 

Muhiba used the gun and taught men and women on how to use it against the Zionist occupation.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nour Freteikh*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

"Waltz of Dream" by Nathalie Handal


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab*

*The Challenges Posed by the Vacuum in Palestinian Political Leadership *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Child abuse in Gaza'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Child abuse in Gaza'istan


Some Israeli schools provide military training to high school students.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Child abuse in Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some Israeli schools provide military training to high school students.
Click to expand...

Do they get those fashionable ski masks?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Campaign to stop Linda Sarsour from speaking at CUNY was an epic flop *

After months of campaigning to disinvite civil rights activist and co-organizer of the Women’s March, Linda Sarsour, from giving a graduation speech at the City University of New York (CUNY), Sarsour’s keynote went off without a hitch Thursday night.

No one booed as they did Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, the commencement speaker at a historically black university in Florida last month. No one stormed out of the auditorium, like the 100 students who turned their backs and walked to the door while VP Mike Pence spoke at a Notre Dame podium last week.

By contrast, when Sarsour threw her fist into the air during her talk, the room applauded.

- See more at: Campaign to stop Linda Sarsour from speaking at CUNY was an epic flop


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Campaign to stop Linda Sarsour from speaking at CUNY was an epic flop *
> 
> After months of campaigning to disinvite civil rights activist and co-organizer of the Women’s March, Linda Sarsour, from giving a graduation speech at the City University of New York (CUNY), Sarsour’s keynote went off without a hitch Thursday night.
> 
> No one booed as they did Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, the commencement speaker at a historically black university in Florida last month. No one stormed out of the auditorium, like the 100 students who turned their backs and walked to the door while VP Mike Pence spoke at a Notre Dame podium last week.
> 
> By contrast, when Sarsour threw her fist into the air during her talk, the room applauded.
> 
> - See more at: Campaign to stop Linda Sarsour from speaking at CUNY was an epic flop


Here in the Great Satan™ even Islamist terrorists are allowed a voice.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Does my head look big in this Islamist Shame Sack?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Does my head look big in this Islamist Shame Sack?


So she invites a former IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) putz to complain about Sarsour. He deflects to Saudi Arabia Iran. He plays the terrorist card.

So, how are women treated by Israel?


Hmmm, it looks like they have no room to talk.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does my head look big in this Islamist Shame Sack?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So she invites a former IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) putz to complain about Sarsour. He deflects to Saudi Arabia Iran. He plays the terrorist card.
> 
> So, how are women treated by Israel?
> 
> 
> Hmmm, it looks like they have no room to talk.
Click to expand...


So, I thought it was comical how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers like Linda Sarsour (and you), are so enthusiastic about fascistic Islamic sharia law but live in the _Great Satan_™ Where you are both protected from it.

Is that YouTube video another Pallywood Production staged confrontation? Another Shirley Temper comedy?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Does my head look big in this Islamist Shame Sack?


Here is another video by this person. Actually I agree with her on this issue. She has many videos on free speech. And for the most part I agree with her.


But where are these hypocrites on this free speech issue?


Crickets.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does my head look big in this Islamist Shame Sack?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So she invites a former IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) putz to complain about Sarsour. He deflects to Saudi Arabia Iran. He plays the terrorist card.
> 
> So, how are women treated by Israel?
> 
> 
> Hmmm, it looks like they have no room to talk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, I thought it was comical how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers like Linda Sarsour (and you), are so enthusiastic about fascistic Islamic sharia law but live in the _Great Satan_™ Where you are both protected from it.
> 
> Is that YouTube video another Pallywood Production staged confrontation? Another Shirley Temper comedy?
Click to expand...

More deflection.

Do you have a link to a Sharia law book we can look at?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does my head look big in this Islamist Shame Sack?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So she invites a former IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) putz to complain about Sarsour. He deflects to Saudi Arabia Iran. He plays the terrorist card.
> 
> So, how are women treated by Israel?
> 
> 
> Hmmm, it looks like they have no room to talk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, I thought it was comical how Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers like Linda Sarsour (and you), are so enthusiastic about fascistic Islamic sharia law but live in the _Great Satan_™ Where you are both protected from it.
> 
> Is that YouTube video another Pallywood Production staged confrontation? Another Shirley Temper comedy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
> 
> Do you have a link to a Sharia law book we can look at?
Click to expand...


I'm sure you have one you can borrow from your madrassah.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Madeleine Kolab*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Galilee Quartet*


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel teaching children to hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel teaching children to hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel teaching children to hate.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hate campaign attacks largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe*

The Palestinian Expo, promoting the culture, art, food, history and people of Palestine has been subject to a wave of attacks aimed at cancelling the event on July 8.

The event is titled as the “perfect space to unleash your inner child” and is the biggest Palestinian cultural and entertainment event in Europe. However, Twitter campaigns and a recent legal letter have claimed that the event is a ‘festival of hate’, promoting ‘Jew hate’ with ‘terrorist links’.

Robert Festenstein - of RHF Solicitors in Manchester - is representing Jewish Human Rights Watch (JHRW); he has sent a letter on behalf of JHRW to the host location, the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in Westminster, demanding that they cancel the event.

Every unsubstantiated allegation in the letter contained no reference or source to support RHF’s accusations. RHF Solicitors have so far not responded to any requests for a comment.

The letter makes numerous unreferenced and damaging allegations against sponsors of the event - the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and Friends of Al-Aqsa. Both groups have strongly denied the claims and have consulted their legal counsel. If the accusations are viewed as defamation then legal action against the author may be pursued.

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*67 Years of Occupation*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Khalida Jarra

All this for a Christian woman in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*YAFA JARRAR*


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult Islamic terrorist enclave worships mass murdering Death Cultists


----------



## Hollie

Islam's man-god liked his female child chattel really young. 

That pathology stills exists today with Arabs-Moslems


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Janna Jihad*


----------



## Hollie

Because they're Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi - This Divestment Bill Hurts My Feelings *

**


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems. Being killed hurts my feelings


----------



## Bleipriester




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Ghada Karmi "Israels Policies Are Those Of Outlaws & Criminals. It's Not A Valid State!" *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reem Kelani *

Everywoman - Xin Ran and Reem Kelani


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek Discusses Bakari Sellers' Letter of Unwavering Support of Israel *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Mnar Muhawesh


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

As usual it is IDF goontards attacking Palestinian civilians.


----------



## Hollie

Where has the UNRWA welfare fraud money gone?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Where has the UNRWA welfare fraud money gone?


What a stupid video. But what can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem welfare fraud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Why do you post chickenfeed?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post chickenfeed?
Click to expand...



You poor, dear. Don't be offended by the behavior of your Islamic terrorist heroes. You have 1,400 years of islamic  depravity to celebrate. Flail your Pom Poms.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Shadia Mansour ~ On this Earth is what makes life worth living (LIVE PERFORMANCE) *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Mnar Muhawesh


----------



## Hollie

ISIS Death Cult indoctrination vs. the competing Death Cults in the disputed territories. 

There is no difference.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> ISIS Death Cult indoctrination vs. the competing Death Cults in the disputed territories.
> 
> There is no difference.


*Off topic!*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS Death Cult indoctrination vs. the competing Death Cults in the disputed territories.
> 
> There is no difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Off topic!*
Click to expand...

Arab-Moslem terrorism of the Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan kind is on topic.


----------



## Hollie

Welfare fraud of the Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan kind.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mnar Muhawesh




Hollie said:


> Welfare fraud of the Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan kind.


The money does not go to economic development which is what is needed the most.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion shows are always a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Karma Nabulsi on the Russell Tribunal on Palestine *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


*Terrorist,* *terrorist,* *terrorist.*

Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign in full force.


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah version of Arab-Moslem Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Awww, Islamic terrorist Death Cultists are so cute when they're in the crosshairs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Fatah version of Arab-Moslem Islamic terrorists.


WOW, they played a whole deck of terrorist cards in this one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah version of Arab-Moslem Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, they played a whole deck of terrorist cards in this one.
Click to expand...


Aww, are your islamo-feelings hurt?

Islamic terrorist is, as Islamic terrorist does.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Where Should the Birds Fly Film Discussion - Fida Qishta *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Where is your video of Israel dropping bombs on family homes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your video of Israel dropping bombs on family homes.
Click to expand...


You can find them on youtube. 

When your Islamic terrorist heroes use homes as places to wage war, they become valid military targets. 

Why are you whining about civilians and civilian homes being put in the crosshairs? They are a valuable source of propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your video of Israel dropping bombs on family homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can find them on youtube.
> 
> When your Islamic terrorist heroes use homes as places to wage war, they become valid military targets.
> 
> Why are you whining about civilians and civilian homes being put in the crosshairs? They are a valuable source of propaganda.
Click to expand...

Load of Israeli bullshit, of course.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your video of Israel dropping bombs on family homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can find them on youtube.
> 
> When your Islamic terrorist heroes use homes as places to wage war, they become valid military targets.
> 
> Why are you whining about civilians and civilian homes being put in the crosshairs? They are a valuable source of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli bullshit, of course.
Click to expand...


I can't be responsible for your hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Why did Israel attack? It wanted to expand its buffer zone.


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute with silly bluster.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Meet the only female brewster in Palestine*

Defying gender and age stereotypes, Madees Khoury, 31, is the only female brewster in Palestine - possibly the Middle East.

“Really? You make beer?” Khoury says is the most common response when she tells people what she does.

Khoury has been brewing beer for 10 years and is taking control of the company from her father and uncle. She says that younger generations of bar owners prefer doing business with her, and that older, more traditional generations still ask to deal with her dad.

She believes she can be a role model for other aspiring Palestinian girls; but that her plans don’t finish there - as she aims to start exporting Taybeh beer all around the world.

Few people would expect to find a beer brewery at the end of a winding road in the village of Taybeh, West Bank. Even fewer would expect to see a woman working on the batch, lugging crates and making sure every step, from brew to bottle, follows strict German beer purity laws.

**


----------



## Hollie

Meet the goofy Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Meet the goofy Islamic terrorists.


There are about 12 million Palestinians in the world. Only about 20,000 are Hamas. So, why does Hamas dominate your view on Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the goofy Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are about 12 million Palestinians in the world. Only about 20,000 are Hamas. So, why does Hamas dominate your view on Palestinians?
Click to expand...


Oh my. Here I was, about to write a strongly worded email to UNRWA to demand action on the "genocide of the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians".


----------



## Hollie

These goofy Islamic terrorist info-mercials are a hoot.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Where Should the Birds Fly Film Discussion - Fida Qishta *
> 
> **



The Qishta family:

Qishta said his team had continued well beyond the border before digging upward in Egypt. In May 2004, they finally opened the "eye" and brought four shipments into the Gaza Strip, totaling 900 Kalashnikovs, 400 handguns and 200,000 rounds of ammunition.

The guns, tied into bundles and packed in empty flour sacks, were pulled through the tunnel with the same cables and electrical motors that the tunnelers had used to remove the sand while they were digging.

"Everyone got $23,000 and a Kalashnikov," Qishta said, adding that the tunnel's initial investor made $150,000. Qishta said he had sold the gun and last year worked briefly on another tunnel that netted him $5,000. He has been asked to work on other tunnels, but said he did not want to press his luck and has gone back to work for his father instead.

Gaza tunnels: A risk worth taking?

***BTW  'kishta' in Arabic means - 'get lost' or 'go away'...and I'm being polite


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Where Should the Birds Fly Film Discussion - Fida Qishta *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Qishta family:
> 
> Qishta said his team had continued well beyond the border before digging upward in Egypt. In May 2004, they finally opened the "eye" and brought four shipments into the Gaza Strip, totaling 900 Kalashnikovs, 400 handguns and 200,000 rounds of ammunition.
> 
> The guns, tied into bundles and packed in empty flour sacks, were pulled through the tunnel with the same cables and electrical motors that the tunnelers had used to remove the sand while they were digging.
> 
> "Everyone got $23,000 and a Kalashnikov," Qishta said, adding that the tunnel's initial investor made $150,000. Qishta said he had sold the gun and last year worked briefly on another tunnel that netted him $5,000. He has been asked to work on other tunnels, but said he did not want to press his luck and has gone back to work for his father instead.
> 
> Gaza tunnels: A risk worth taking?
> 
> ***BTW  'kishta' in Arabic means - 'get lost' or 'go away'...and I'm being polite
Click to expand...

Indeed, private enterprise at work.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion show?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:

_Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*

Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.

According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
_
*Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:
> 
> _Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*
> 
> Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.
> 
> According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
> _
> *Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*
Click to expand...

Relevance?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:
> 
> _Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*
> 
> Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.
> 
> According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
> _
> *Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Relevance?
Click to expand...


Palestinian nationalism is just a new word for Arab Muslim colonialism of  tribal domination.
Also it has a relevance in understanding how Palestinian or any other Arab society works.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:
> 
> _Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*
> 
> Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.
> 
> According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
> _
> *Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is just a new word for Arab Muslim colonialism of  tribal domination.
> Also it has a relevance in understanding how Palestinian or any other Arab society works.
Click to expand...

 You don't make any sense.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:
> 
> _Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*
> 
> Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.
> 
> According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
> _
> *Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is just a new word for Arab Muslim colonialism of  tribal domination.
> Also it has a relevance in understanding how Palestinian or any other Arab society works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...


Sense has left You the moment You chose to justify Arab Muslim colonialism over the rights of indigenous people, and use 'justice'  and 'rights' as a tool to continue this brutal discrimination.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:
> 
> _Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*
> 
> Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.
> 
> According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
> _
> *Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is just a new word for Arab Muslim colonialism of  tribal domination.
> Also it has a relevance in understanding how Palestinian or any other Arab society works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sense has left You the moment You chose to justify Arab Muslim colonialism over the rights of indigenous people, and use 'justice'  and 'rights' as a tool to continue this brutal discrimination.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the "indigenous" people who have no ancestors from that area?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Edward Said: Claims to the Holy Land (Israel and the Occupation of Palestine) *

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samah Sabawi another Palestinian from an Iraqi tribe:
> 
> _Today, 2nd of November Amnesty International declared that Sunni Militia *fighters from a tribe called Sabawi have publicly humiliated, unlawfully detained and tortured the boys and men in the villages near Mosul that were retaken from ISIS.*
> 
> Amnesty International reporters and researchers interviewed with the villagers who described how the Tribal Mobilization militia (Hashd al-Ashair) from the Sabawi tribe carried out revenge attacks against the villagers.
> 
> According to eyewitnesses and and residents, m*ilitia fighters who belong to the same tribe as the villagers, started torturing and humiliating boys as soon as they arrived.*
> _
> *Amnesty International: Tribal militia tortured detainees during Mosul offensive*
> 
> 
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is just a new word for Arab Muslim colonialism of  tribal domination.
> Also it has a relevance in understanding how Palestinian or any other Arab society works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sense has left You the moment You chose to justify Arab Muslim colonialism over the rights of indigenous people, and use 'justice'  and 'rights' as a tool to continue this brutal discrimination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the "indigenous" people who have no ancestors from that area?
Click to expand...


This is a deflection to Your usual Arab Muslim talking points.

We are discussing 'who're the Palestinians', they're NOT the indigenous people. Longstanding occupation alone is not enough.
Systematic eradication of indigenous culture and people isn't enough too.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas terrorists in their fashionable ski masks.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Edward Said: Claims to the Holy Land (Israel and the Occupation of Palestine) *
> 
> **



Jews have the longest presence.
Both Christian and Muslim culture support Zionism and even state that Jews will gather back into their homeland. The reason why Christians and Muslims are even in that land is because of the Jews and THEIR culture.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edward Said: Claims to the Holy Land (Israel and the Occupation of Palestine) *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have the longest presence.
> Both Christian and Muslim culture support Zionism and even state that Jews will gather back into their homeland. The reason why Christians and Muslims are even in that land is because of the Jews and THEIR culture.
Click to expand...

That is not what he said.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edward Said: Claims to the Holy Land (Israel and the Occupation of Palestine) *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have the longest presence.
> Both Christian and Muslim culture support Zionism and even state that Jews will gather back into their homeland. The reason why Christians and Muslims are even in that land is because of the Jews and THEIR culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what he said.
Click to expand...


Keep on dancing. 
Meanwhile Palestinian nationalism is still another word for colonialism of the most barbaric form today.


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edward Said: Claims to the Holy Land (Israel and the Occupation of Palestine) *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have the longest presence.
> Both Christian and Muslim culture support Zionism and even state that Jews will gather back into their homeland. The reason why Christians and Muslims are even in that land is because of the Jews and THEIR culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep on dancing.
> Meanwhile Palestinian nationalism is still another word for colonialism of the most barbaric form today.
Click to expand...

Keep on dancing.
Meanwhile israeli nationalism is still another word for colonialism of the most barbaric form today.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edward Said: Claims to the Holy Land (Israel and the Occupation of Palestine) *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have the longest presence.
> Both Christian and Muslim culture support Zionism and even state that Jews will gather back into their homeland. The reason why Christians and Muslims are even in that land is because of the Jews and THEIR culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep on dancing.
> Meanwhile Palestinian nationalism is still another word for colonialism of the most barbaric form today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep on dancing.
> Meanwhile israeli nationalism is still another word for colonialism of the most barbaric form today.
Click to expand...


It's comical that your only ability at posting is to plagiarize the comments of others.


----------



## Hollie

The future of the Arab-islamist Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The UNRWA Welfare Fraud. Teaching the little islamo-bots to hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


You put truth and Danny Ayalon in the same sentence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You put truth and Danny Ayalon in the same sentence.
Click to expand...


Your usual islamo-tap dancing.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Message to College Students | Author Najla Said *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## montelatici

UNRWA was set up especially for the Palestinians because unlike other refugee situations, the Palestinian refugees were as a result of actions (or more exactly inaction) by the League of Nations and its heir the UN.

The UN failed to insure that pursuant to the Palestine Mandate that:

 "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

In fact, both the civil and religious rights of the existing population of Palestine were prejudiced by the UN by its partition of Palestine, leaving a third of the Palestinian people within a partition to be ruled by Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa PennBDS Opening Keynote*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist MTV.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Conversation with tunnel rats


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nation Estate ( extract ) of and with Larissa Sansour *

**


----------



## Hollie

Indoctrinating future Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UpFront - Muslim Americans and US liberal values *

**


----------



## Hollie

That'll teach them-there Jooooooos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem" *

**


----------



## Hollie

The heartbreaking story of Islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*
*Democrats Are Out of Step with Their Base on Israel-Palestine *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist Cult of Hamas , ie, ISIS-lite, has been getting lessons in how to improve the cinematography in their goofy propaganda videos.


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> The islamic terrorist Cult of Hamas , ie, ISIS-lite, has been getting lessons in how to improve the cinematography in their goofy propaganda videos.


Lots of dumb there, honey.

Because actually the jewish terrorist Cult of chabad/lubavitch , ie, likud-lite, has been getting lessons in how to improve the cinematography in their goofy hollywood (no pun intended) propaganda videos.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic terrorist Cult of Hamas , ie, ISIS-lite, has been getting lessons in how to improve the cinematography in their goofy propaganda videos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of dumb there, honey.
> 
> Because actually the jewish terrorist Cult of chabad/lubavitch , ie, likud-lite, has been getting lessons in how to improve the cinematography in their goofy hollywood (no pun intended) propaganda videos.
Click to expand...


Just your usual plagiarism, muhammud. 

Do you realize that your plagiarized comment makes no sense?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Akram*


----------



## Hollie

Why should little islamo-bots come to Arab-Moslem Hitler Youth camps to study the ways of The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*


----------



## Hollie

The importance of role models.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Project "move that way you disposable little islamo-bot"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Authorized! 

The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

A bunch of sorry Hitler wannabes.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rev. Dr. Naim Ateek*


----------



## Hollie

Hamas el "Dead muhammudan Walking"  brigades.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*

As usual, the Lame Stream Media host pounds on the Israeli talking points that were given to him.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Diana Buttu*


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Farah Chamma*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> * Farah Chamma*



Why did you latch onto this cause?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Farah Chamma*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you latch onto this cause?
Click to expand...

What cause?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Poor Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Manal Fakhoury Interview - The Leadership Conference*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **



"They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."  

"The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."

The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."
> 
> "The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."
> 
> The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.
Click to expand...


Can't stomach the facts.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."
> 
> "The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."
> 
> The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't stomach the facts.
Click to expand...


She doesn't speak any facts.  She speaks a false narrative in order to demonize Jews.


----------



## montelatici

So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.



First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.

Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)

And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?




But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.  

I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.



Do you believe the Hamas charter speaks to anything but "not nice" treatment of the Jewish people?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.


Indeed, defending a settler colonial project against the trampled and expelled native population can be a problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."
> 
> "The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."
> 
> The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.
Click to expand...

*Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel *

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, defending a settler colonial project against the trampled and expelled native population can be a problem.
Click to expand...


Palestinian nationalism is Arab Muslim colonial imeprialism, at the expense of the numerous indigenous people all over the ME - *this is exactly what You defend.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."
> 
> "The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."
> 
> The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.
Click to expand...

*Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel *

**


rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, defending a settler colonial project against the trampled and expelled native population can be a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is Arab Muslim colonial imeprialism, at the expense of the numerous indigenous people all over the ME - *this is exactly what You defend.
> *
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the Palestinians have no right to self defense?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."
> 
> "The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."
> 
> The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, defending a settler colonial project against the trampled and expelled native population can be a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is Arab Muslim colonial imeprialism, at the expense of the numerous indigenous people all over the ME - *this is exactly what You defend.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that the Palestinians have no right to self defense?
Click to expand...


In the rational, grown-up world, self defense is not a matter of islamic Death Cultists randomly attacking / stabbing Israeli citizens along streets and pedestrian ways. Those attacks are promoted and glorified by the Arab-Moslem Death Cult "governments".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They unleashed settlers throughout the West Bank to attack and kill Palestinians in the West bank."
> 
> "The few Palestinians that were spared ...  a lot of the Palestinians were enslaved, they were enslaved for a long time.... the children where pulled out of school and forced to work, tied, and forced to work the land.  I'm not talking about past history, I'm talking about the 1980s 1990s and it still happens, even today."
> 
> The language that she uses is deliberately inflammatory and false.  I can't stomach more than 5 minutes with her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, defending a settler colonial project against the trampled and expelled native population can be a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian nationalism is Arab Muslim colonial imeprialism, at the expense of the numerous indigenous people all over the ME - *this is exactly what You defend.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that the Palestinians have no right to self defense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the rational, grown-up world, self defense is not a matter of islamic Death Cultists randomly attacking / stabbing Israeli citizens along streets and pedestrian ways. Those attacks are promoted and glorified by the Arab-Moslem Death Cult "governments".
Click to expand...

No, they are promoted by Zionist settler colonialism.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.
> 
> Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)
> 
> And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.
> 
> I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.
Click to expand...


What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.  

Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.
> 
> Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)
> 
> And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.
> 
> I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.
Click to expand...


Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.

Actually, make it from the 1820s on.

You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.

And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.

Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.

GO AHEAD.  Make our day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.


Actually, the Zionists mooched Britain's military to cover for their invasion.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.
> 
> Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)
> 
> And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.
> 
> I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.
> 
> Actually, make it from the 1820s on.
> 
> You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
> You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.
> 
> And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.
> 
> Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> GO AHEAD.  Make our day.
Click to expand...


The intent of the Jews since 1820 was always to colonize Palestine and remove the non-Jews, that is called an invasion.  The Ottomans passed laws to prevent Jews from settling in Palestine, knowing the Jew's intentions, but the invasion continued.

Repulsing invading, colonizing Jews during the mandate period, in an effort to prevent the colonization of their land and their eventual eviction, seems like what any people, including the Muslim and Christian Palestinians should do.  Unfortunately, the British military prevented the native people from defending themselves as well as they could have.  

That Jews were expelled from Europe or other countries, Muslim or Christian, does not have anything to do with the Palestinians.  They should not be made to suffer for the actions of others.

Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism.  Palestine is the ancient homeland of the Palestinians, the native and indigenous people of Palestine.  That they converted to other religions does not change the fact that they are the native people of Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.
> 
> Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)
> 
> And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.
> 
> I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.
> 
> Actually, make it from the 1820s on.
> 
> You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
> You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.
> 
> And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.
> 
> Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> GO AHEAD.  Make our day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The intent of the Jews since 1820 was always to colonize Palestine and remove the non-Jews, that is called an invasion.  The Ottomans passed laws to prevent Jews from settling in Palestine, knowing the Jew's intentions, but the invasion continued.
> 
> Repulsing invading, colonizing Jews during the mandate period, in an effort to prevent the colonization of their land and their eventual eviction, seems like what any people, including the Muslim and Christian Palestinians should do.  Unfortunately, the British military prevented the native people from defending themselves as well as they could have.
> 
> That Jews were expelled from Europe or other countries, Muslim or Christian, does not have anything to do with the Palestinians.  They should not be made to suffer for the actions of others.
> 
> Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism.  Palestine is the ancient homeland of the Palestinians, the native and indigenous people of Palestine.  That they converted to other religions does not change the fact that they are the native people of Palestine.
Click to expand...


<<Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism. >>

This is where your lies begin and end.

Not one shred of truth or proof to that.
Nothing but Arab Muslim BDS nonsense to take away the land from the Jews, the indigenous people of the land.

ALL Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.  They all know that their ancient homeland is Arabia, just as the Turks know that Turkey is their indigenous land.

Jews come from Judea, and no number of lies about "European" Jews being ALL converts to Judaism is going to change that.

You are a Jew hater and you lie as easily as you breath.

None of your lies is going to take any more land away from the indigenous people of that land - The Jewish People - no matter if they spent centuries in one place or another on the planet:

The were

They are

They will forever be

The indigenous people of their ancient homeland -

The land of Israel

(How many people have you recruited so far with your outlandish lies? Who believes you, except those who already turned against Jews from birth, or later on because their personalities can only see hatred for Jews? )


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.



Sure.  And that's not a series of facts.  That's a narrative.  Here's how you can tell.  I can write a narrative that is just as true:

The Jewish people, who were living in diaspora all over the world having been forcibly removed, returned to their native historical, ancestral and religious homeland, where they have always maintained a presence,  bought land and tried to live in peace with their Arab neighbors and now having re-constituted their sovereignty, live with constant antisemitic violence directed toward them and under threats of genocide and destruction of their history and homeland and being ethnically cleansed (again) from Israel, Judea and Samaria.  



> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.



Really?  You mean States like Morocco and Indonesia and Russia and Turkey and China?  All of whom occupy territory under someone else's sovereignty and none of them having been condemned on the world stage like Israel.  None of them have been condemned by "international law".  In fact, "international law" that is used to condemn Israel has been deemed not to apply to them, even though they have all committed much more clear infractions of the law used to accuse Israel.  

What other country is expected to not respond to attacks against its citizens?  

Everyone on this board knows how many were killed in the 2014 conflict with Gaza.  Do they know how many died in Syria that year?  In Nigeria?  In Afghanistan?  Who is getting the pass, here?

When was the last time Sears was selling "Free Western Sahara" shirts?  Where is there a Students for Justice in Cyprus?


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you believe that the Jews are treating the Palestinians well in Gaza and the WB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.
> 
> Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)
> 
> And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.
> 
> I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.
> 
> Actually, make it from the 1820s on.
> 
> You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
> You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.
> 
> And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.
> 
> Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> GO AHEAD.  Make our day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The intent of the Jews since 1820 was always to colonize Palestine and remove the non-Jews, that is called an invasion.  The Ottomans passed laws to prevent Jews from settling in Palestine, knowing the Jew's intentions, but the invasion continued.
> 
> Repulsing invading, colonizing Jews during the mandate period, in an effort to prevent the colonization of their land and their eventual eviction, seems like what any people, including the Muslim and Christian Palestinians should do.  Unfortunately, the British military prevented the native people from defending themselves as well as they could have.
> 
> That Jews were expelled from Europe or other countries, Muslim or Christian, does not have anything to do with the Palestinians.  They should not be made to suffer for the actions of others.
> 
> Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism.  Palestine is the ancient homeland of the Palestinians, the native and indigenous people of Palestine.  That they converted to other religions does not change the fact that they are the native people of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> <<Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism. >>
> 
> This is where your lies begin and end.
> 
> Not one shred of truth or proof to that.
> Nothing but Arab Muslim BDS nonsense to take away the land from the Jews, the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> ALL Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.  They all know that their ancient homeland is Arabia, just as the Turks know that Turkey is their indigenous land.
> 
> Jews come from Judea, and no number of lies about "European" Jews being ALL converts to Judaism is going to change that.
> 
> You are a Jew hater and you lie as easily as you breath.
> 
> None of your lies is going to take any more land away from the indigenous people of that land - The Jewish People - no matter if they spent centuries in one place or another on the planet:
> 
> The were
> 
> They are
> 
> They will forever be
> 
> The indigenous people of their ancient homeland -
> 
> The land of Israel
> 
> (How many people have you recruited so far with your outlandish lies? Who believes you, except those who already turned against Jews from birth, or later on because their personalities can only see hatred for Jews? )
Click to expand...


People from Europe whose ancestors converted to Judaism could not be indigenous to Palestine, they are indigenous to Europe, (Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Spain, etc.) 

There are no "Jewish people", there are people that practice Judaism. An American, part of the American people, can practice Judaism, for example. An Inuit, part of the Inuit people, can practice Judaism, but he remains part of the Inuit people.   If there were a Jewish people and anyone practicing Judaism would be considered part of that people, it would not bode well for those practicing Judaism in other countries.  They would not be trusted.

I state fact. There is no hate associated with stating fact.  

 The outlandish lies, that attempt to support the Zionist myth, come from you.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, it is extremely difficult to objectively quantify such a broad statement, including all of the relevant factors, from a strictly objective standpoint.  Your framing of the statement requires moral judgments be made.  As such, your statement is not a "fact" but an opinion, or narrative.  "Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt" is a fact.  "The Jews are big meanies" is an opinion.  "Gazans typically have access to electricity for only four hours a day" is a fact.  "Jews are responsible for all the suffering in the Gaza strip" is an opinion, or narrative.  So, no, she did not provide any facts.  She only told a narrative.
> 
> Second, do you think that is what she said in her narrative?  That the "Jews are not treating the Palestinians well?"  Her narrative went a lot further than that.  Further, her narrative had the purpose (all her narratives have the purpose) of demonizing Jews.  Her intent is to tell a very well-rehearsed and reasonable-sounding set of outright lies, exaggerations, and myths without the corresponding counter-narrative in order to make Jews appear evil and Jewish goals unthinkable.  (How DARE Jews have self-determination and sovereignty over part of their ancestral and historical homeland!  The HORROR!  How could the Palestinians ever SURVIVE such a horrible thing?)
> 
> And third, do you think she was objectively offering solutions to a conflict between two peoples, equally deserving of fair treatment and human rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, further to all that, I will answer your question.  I think Israel, as a government, has acted admirably given the extraordinarily difficult circumstances she has been forced to endure in the past 70 years.  I can't imagine how she could have or can act better than she has and does, with a few exceptions of polices which I do not agree with.  She has acted, and continues to act, with restraint and generosity in the face of an unspeakable threat against her people and her nation.
> 
> I do not intend to imply that the Palestinian people do not suffer.  They do.  And there needs to be a solution to their suffering.  However, the responsibility for that suffering is, at the least, shared with the Palestinian governments and how they continue to hold the Palestinians in their suffering rather than working towards a better future in peace with Israel.  Arab Palestinians are victims of their own ideology and actions, much more so than any oppression by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.
> 
> Actually, make it from the 1820s on.
> 
> You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
> You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.
> 
> And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.
> 
> Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> GO AHEAD.  Make our day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The intent of the Jews since 1820 was always to colonize Palestine and remove the non-Jews, that is called an invasion.  The Ottomans passed laws to prevent Jews from settling in Palestine, knowing the Jew's intentions, but the invasion continued.
> 
> Repulsing invading, colonizing Jews during the mandate period, in an effort to prevent the colonization of their land and their eventual eviction, seems like what any people, including the Muslim and Christian Palestinians should do.  Unfortunately, the British military prevented the native people from defending themselves as well as they could have.
> 
> That Jews were expelled from Europe or other countries, Muslim or Christian, does not have anything to do with the Palestinians.  They should not be made to suffer for the actions of others.
> 
> Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism.  Palestine is the ancient homeland of the Palestinians, the native and indigenous people of Palestine.  That they converted to other religions does not change the fact that they are the native people of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> <<Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism. >>
> 
> This is where your lies begin and end.
> 
> Not one shred of truth or proof to that.
> Nothing but Arab Muslim BDS nonsense to take away the land from the Jews, the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> ALL Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.  They all know that their ancient homeland is Arabia, just as the Turks know that Turkey is their indigenous land.
> 
> Jews come from Judea, and no number of lies about "European" Jews being ALL converts to Judaism is going to change that.
> 
> You are a Jew hater and you lie as easily as you breath.
> 
> None of your lies is going to take any more land away from the indigenous people of that land - The Jewish People - no matter if they spent centuries in one place or another on the planet:
> 
> The were
> 
> They are
> 
> They will forever be
> 
> The indigenous people of their ancient homeland -
> 
> The land of Israel
> 
> (How many people have you recruited so far with your outlandish lies? Who believes you, except those who already turned against Jews from birth, or later on because their personalities can only see hatred for Jews? )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People from Europe whose ancestors converted to Judaism could not be indigenous to Palestine, they are indigenous to Europe, (Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Spain, etc.)
> 
> There are no "Jewish people", there are people that practice Judaism. An American, part of the American people, can practice Judaism, for example. An Inuit, part of the Inuit people, can practice Judaism, but he remains part of the Inuit people.   If there were a Jewish people and anyone practicing Judaism would be considered part of that people, it would not bode well for those practicing Judaism in other countries.  They would not be trusted.
> 
> I state fact. There is no hate associated with stating fact.
> 
> The outlandish lies, that attempt to support the Zionist myth, come from you.
Click to expand...



What an amazing practice from Muslims and even Christians for the past 100 years to turn the truth on its head.

It does not work.

You show no proof to one word you say.

Because there is no proof to anything you say.

You are a Jew Hater, trained in the BDS movement of lies in order to destroy the State of Israel, and the Jewish People with it.

There were a Jewish People/Nation long before there ever was an Arab people, and much less a Muslim people.

You know it.

Now have the courage to state it.

Read the Quran.  It is all in there about the Jewish people being the owners of the land of Israel.

No mention, before the 20th century, AFTER the 1948 war, and only after the 1967 war of Jews "not being Jews", of Jews not being the indigenous people of the land of Israel.

Lying and murdering is part of Islamic actions and thinking.
Continue to practice it.

Why not?

IT IS RAMADAN, the time when Muslims now choose to lie more and kill more Jews than ever before.

Say goodbye to introspection and peace and respect during Ramadan.

Destroying Israel and the Jews is now more important than what the Muslim invented holiday is supposed to be about.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?  The European Jews were living in Europe, invaded Palestine, evicted the native people from their homes and land, and now oppress, confine and rule over the Palestinians (and their descendants) that they were unable to evict from the area of Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> Few states would be given the pass that Israel gets from the international community with its behavior.  Killing thousands of civilians at a time periodically to maintain the terror level up, is something the guy in Sudan (wanted by the ICC) does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.
> 
> Actually, make it from the 1820s on.
> 
> You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
> You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.
> 
> And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.
> 
> Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> GO AHEAD.  Make our day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The intent of the Jews since 1820 was always to colonize Palestine and remove the non-Jews, that is called an invasion.  The Ottomans passed laws to prevent Jews from settling in Palestine, knowing the Jew's intentions, but the invasion continued.
> 
> Repulsing invading, colonizing Jews during the mandate period, in an effort to prevent the colonization of their land and their eventual eviction, seems like what any people, including the Muslim and Christian Palestinians should do.  Unfortunately, the British military prevented the native people from defending themselves as well as they could have.
> 
> That Jews were expelled from Europe or other countries, Muslim or Christian, does not have anything to do with the Palestinians.  They should not be made to suffer for the actions of others.
> 
> Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism.  Palestine is the ancient homeland of the Palestinians, the native and indigenous people of Palestine.  That they converted to other religions does not change the fact that they are the native people of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> <<Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism. >>
> 
> This is where your lies begin and end.
> 
> Not one shred of truth or proof to that.
> Nothing but Arab Muslim BDS nonsense to take away the land from the Jews, the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> ALL Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.  They all know that their ancient homeland is Arabia, just as the Turks know that Turkey is their indigenous land.
> 
> Jews come from Judea, and no number of lies about "European" Jews being ALL converts to Judaism is going to change that.
> 
> You are a Jew hater and you lie as easily as you breath.
> 
> None of your lies is going to take any more land away from the indigenous people of that land - The Jewish People - no matter if they spent centuries in one place or another on the planet:
> 
> The were
> 
> They are
> 
> They will forever be
> 
> The indigenous people of their ancient homeland -
> 
> The land of Israel
> 
> (How many people have you recruited so far with your outlandish lies? Who believes you, except those who already turned against Jews from birth, or later on because their personalities can only see hatred for Jews? )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People from Europe whose ancestors converted to Judaism could not be indigenous to Palestine, they are indigenous to Europe, (Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Spain, etc.)
> 
> There are no "Jewish people", there are people that practice Judaism. An American, part of the American people, can practice Judaism, for example. An Inuit, part of the Inuit people, can practice Judaism, but he remains part of the Inuit people.   If there were a Jewish people and anyone practicing Judaism would be considered part of that people, it would not bode well for those practicing Judaism in other countries.  They would not be trusted.
> 
> I state fact. There is no hate associated with stating fact.
> 
> The outlandish lies, that attempt to support the Zionist myth, come from you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What an amazing practice from Muslims and even Christians for the past 100 years to turn the truth on its head.
> 
> It does not work.
> 
> You show no proof to one word you say.
> 
> Because there is no proof to anything you say.
> 
> You are a Jew Hater, trained in the BDS movement of lies in order to destroy the State of Israel, and the Jewish People with it.
> 
> There were a Jewish People/Nation long before there ever was an Arab people, and much less a Muslim people.
> 
> You know it.
> 
> Now have the courage to state it.
> 
> Read the Quran.  It is all in there about the Jewish people being the owners of the land of Israel.
> 
> No mention, before the 20th century, AFTER the 1948 war, and only after the 1967 war of Jews "not being Jews", of Jews not being the indigenous people of the land of Israel.
> 
> Lying and murdering is part of Islamic actions and thinking.
> Continue to practice it.
> 
> Why not?
> 
> IT IS RAMADAN, the time when Muslims now choose to lie more and kill more Jews than ever before.
> 
> Say goodbye to introspection and peace and respect during Ramadan.
> 
> Destroying Israel and the Jews is now more important than what the Muslim invented holiday is supposed to be about.
Click to expand...


Show proof of what?  That the Jews were Europeans that intended to colonize Palestine?  They announced their intent to colonize Palestine in the New York Times.

*An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times depicts how the Conference sought to “colonize Palestine” and discussed the purchasing of land with English Zionists.*










Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin

There was a captive nation, ruled by the Romans, called Judea, that had a Roman puppet King an Arab (Edomite) whose father converted to Judaism and his mother never converted to Judaism, so it is up to those that know the rules to determine if he was even "Jewish".  Historical evidence of the nature or even the existence of a nation called Israel (before the current Israel was established) is problematic.  And, to say that even the Jews during Christ's time were direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews is as dibious as claiming the Tuscans of today are the direct descendants of the Etruscans.

Why would I read or believe anything in the Koran?  I am a Roman Catholic.

It is the Jews a who have been on a killing spree for decades killing thousands of Palestinian Muslims and Christians, not the other way around.

As a Christian, I see a lot of lying and killing by the Israeli Jews as well as Muslims.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do show us how from 1892 on the Jews came into Palestine armed to their teeth and began to invade and evict anyone from their homes or lands, be it other Jews, Arabs, Turks, Bedouins, Druze, etc, who were already living on the land at that time.
> 
> Actually, make it from the 1820s on.
> 
> You do know that what you write is not true, but you insist on it.
> You do know that it was Jews who were attacked and evicted from their homes and lands from 1920, with all of Hebron, Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem being totally emptied of Jews in 1929 and 1948.
> 
> And do let us count ALL OF THE JEWS attacked and evicted from their homes and lands in TransJordan by 1925.
> 
> Let us not forget ONE of those Jews who were attacked, raped, maimed, or murdered because the Husseini Clan decided that Jews should NEVER have sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> GO AHEAD.  Make our day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intent of the Jews since 1820 was always to colonize Palestine and remove the non-Jews, that is called an invasion.  The Ottomans passed laws to prevent Jews from settling in Palestine, knowing the Jew's intentions, but the invasion continued.
> 
> Repulsing invading, colonizing Jews during the mandate period, in an effort to prevent the colonization of their land and their eventual eviction, seems like what any people, including the Muslim and Christian Palestinians should do.  Unfortunately, the British military prevented the native people from defending themselves as well as they could have.
> 
> That Jews were expelled from Europe or other countries, Muslim or Christian, does not have anything to do with the Palestinians.  They should not be made to suffer for the actions of others.
> 
> Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism.  Palestine is the ancient homeland of the Palestinians, the native and indigenous people of Palestine.  That they converted to other religions does not change the fact that they are the native people of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> <<Palestine is not the ancient homeland of Europeans that happened to convert to Judaism. >>
> 
> This is where your lies begin and end.
> 
> Not one shred of truth or proof to that.
> Nothing but Arab Muslim BDS nonsense to take away the land from the Jews, the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> ALL Arabs are indigenous of Arabia.  They all know that their ancient homeland is Arabia, just as the Turks know that Turkey is their indigenous land.
> 
> Jews come from Judea, and no number of lies about "European" Jews being ALL converts to Judaism is going to change that.
> 
> You are a Jew hater and you lie as easily as you breath.
> 
> None of your lies is going to take any more land away from the indigenous people of that land - The Jewish People - no matter if they spent centuries in one place or another on the planet:
> 
> The were
> 
> They are
> 
> They will forever be
> 
> The indigenous people of their ancient homeland -
> 
> The land of Israel
> 
> (How many people have you recruited so far with your outlandish lies? Who believes you, except those who already turned against Jews from birth, or later on because their personalities can only see hatred for Jews? )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People from Europe whose ancestors converted to Judaism could not be indigenous to Palestine, they are indigenous to Europe, (Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Spain, etc.)
> 
> There are no "Jewish people", there are people that practice Judaism. An American, part of the American people, can practice Judaism, for example. An Inuit, part of the Inuit people, can practice Judaism, but he remains part of the Inuit people.   If there were a Jewish people and anyone practicing Judaism would be considered part of that people, it would not bode well for those practicing Judaism in other countries.  They would not be trusted.
> 
> I state fact. There is no hate associated with stating fact.
> 
> The outlandish lies, that attempt to support the Zionist myth, come from you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What an amazing practice from Muslims and even Christians for the past 100 years to turn the truth on its head.
> 
> It does not work.
> 
> You show no proof to one word you say.
> 
> Because there is no proof to anything you say.
> 
> You are a Jew Hater, trained in the BDS movement of lies in order to destroy the State of Israel, and the Jewish People with it.
> 
> There were a Jewish People/Nation long before there ever was an Arab people, and much less a Muslim people.
> 
> You know it.
> 
> Now have the courage to state it.
> 
> Read the Quran.  It is all in there about the Jewish people being the owners of the land of Israel.
> 
> No mention, before the 20th century, AFTER the 1948 war, and only after the 1967 war of Jews "not being Jews", of Jews not being the indigenous people of the land of Israel.
> 
> Lying and murdering is part of Islamic actions and thinking.
> Continue to practice it.
> 
> Why not?
> 
> IT IS RAMADAN, the time when Muslims now choose to lie more and kill more Jews than ever before.
> 
> Say goodbye to introspection and peace and respect during Ramadan.
> 
> Destroying Israel and the Jews is now more important than what the Muslim invented holiday is supposed to be about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show proof of what?  That the Jews were Europeans that intended to colonize Palestine?  They announced their intent to colonize Palestine in the New York Times.
> 
> *An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times depicts how the Conference sought to “colonize Palestine” and discussed the purchasing of land with English Zionists.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin
> 
> There was a captive nation, ruled by the Romans, called Judea, that had a Roman puppet King an Arab (Edomite) whose father converted to Judaism and his mother never converted to Judaism, so it is up to those that know the rules to determine if he was even "Jewish".  Historical evidence of the nature or even the existence of a nation called Israel (before the current Israel was established) is problematic.  And, to say that even the Jews during Christ's time were direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews is as dibious as claiming the Tuscans of today are the direct descendants of the Etruscans.
> 
> Why would I read or believe anything in the Koran?  I am a Roman Catholic.
> 
> It is the Jews a who have been on a killing spree for decades killing thousands of Palestinian Muslims and Christians, not the other way around.
> 
> As a Christian, I see a lot of lying and killing by the Israeli Jews as well as Muslims.
Click to expand...


Final proof Mr. Christian, I hate the Jews so much, that you ARE nothing but a Jew hater.

<<And, to say that even the Jews during Christ's time were direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews is as dibious as claiming the Tuscans of today are the direct descendants of the Etruscans.>>>

You keep on spilling your venom anywhere you want.

The Jewish People ARE the indigenous people of the Land of Israel.

The Jewish People went through 1700 years of Christian oppression and murder and also 1300 years of Muslim oppression and murder.

You are simply a continuation of that hatred.

The hatred which will not go away because Christianity is not about love for Jesus, but about superiority over Judaism and the Jews, and a need, a must of replacing that religion with the "new" religion.

You have a lot to answer to, Mr. Roman Catholic, for the 1700 years of Roman Catholic hatred of anything and everything Catholicism chose to pursue against the Jewish people.

You are not on these threads to protect Arabs as the indigenous people of the land, which you do know they are not.

You are here to deceive all who can be deceived, and teach them to hate the Jewish people as much as you were taught to hate them by your replacement religion.

Christianity is a weak ideology and you are a perfect example of how weak Christians always have been.

Lies, Attacks, rape, steal, torture, burn , murder and expel.

You and your replacement ideology can take a flying leap as you insist in REPLACING the indigenous Jewish people of the land, with an ideology which as been just as bad at lying, attacking, raping, stealing, torturing, burning, murdering and expelling the Jewish people from their rightful ancient homeland.

Are you aware, Mr. Catholic, that you bought your ticket to hell, and not to be in front of Jesus the moment you embraced all of these lies?

Does it matter to you?

Apparently not anymore than it has bothered all of those who committed all of those crimes for the past 1700 years during all the pogroms, the inquisition and the Holocaust.

Your job as a Christian is not done until all Jews are gone from these planet.

Lie some more, Mr. Christian.
After all, your place in heaven is long gone.
As long as you continue in your sad path of lying and denying Jews their humanity, their rights and their sovereignty on their own ancient homeland, you will only end up in the same place all other Christians like you have ended.

Surprise !!!!!!    (Is what will greet you ......you know where)


Well, I am so glad that you did clear up that you are not a Muslim, but an even sadder being than any Muslim who likes to kill Jews usually is.

Replace all Jews with fake ones all you want.  

The Jewish Nation lives.

Am Israel Chai !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Joudie Kalla, author of _Palestine On A Plate
_
Laila El-Haddad, contributor to The Electronic Intifada and co-author of _The Gaza Kitchen_, sat down with Kalla for a one-on-one interview about cuisine, identity and what she wants to cook for the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*People for Palestine: Vivien Sansour *

**
*A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage 

*


----------



## Hollie

UNRWA - "A Way of Life"

Yes. A forever welfare fraud for Arabs-Moslems


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> UNRWA - "A Way of Life"
> 
> Yes. A forever welfare fraud for Arabs-Moslems


Yup! Israel would not exist if unless "A Way of Life" for her was as a forever welfare fraud.
 Fanger started a very informative thread (while intensely disturbing) on this very topic...

Israel's welfare mooch


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA - "A Way of Life"
> 
> Yes. A forever welfare fraud for Arabs-Moslems
> 
> 
> 
> Yup! Israel would not exist if unless "A Way of Life" for her was as a forever welfare fraud.
> Fanger started a very informative thread (while intensely disturbing) on this very topic...
> 
> Israel's welfare mooch
Click to expand...


Eyup. 

I noticed the time stamp and my creepy stalker was, as usual, trolling the board waiting for me to post. 

Back to your basement, stalker. I'll let you know when you can post again.


----------



## Hollie

The legacy of UNRWA.

Another litter of Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> UNRWA - "A Way of Life"
> 
> Yes. A forever welfare fraud for Arabs-Moslems


Let the refugees go back home.

Poof! No more UNWRA.

This isn't rocket science.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians urge World Council of Churches ‘this is no time for shallow diplomacy’*

On Monday June 12, 2017, Palestinian Christians of the National Coalition of Christian Organizations in Palestine (NCCOP) issued an open letter to the World Council of Churches (WCC) ahead of their upcoming gathering in occupied Bethlehem, asking the WCC to adopt several critical points on the issue of Palestine.

The call comes on the 10th anniversary of the Amman Call, which was adopted at the WCC gathering in 2007, and asserted support for Palestinian self-determination and the right of return.

- See more at: Palestinian Christians urge World Council of Churches ‘this is no time for shallow diplomacy’


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*India approves huge agricultural partnership pact with Palestine*

The Indian Cabinet has approved a groundbreaking agricultural pact with Palestine; set to boost the Palestinian economy.

The two countries had signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) in India last month during a visit by the Palestinian minister of foreign affairs, Dr. Riad Al-Malki.

The pact will offer cooperation in agricultural research, irrigation and climate change along with advancements in veterinary and animal health.

"Under the MoU" an official statement said, "an agricultural steering committee will be constituted to determine the programmes and action plans to achieve the objectives provided in the MoU. It will also set the agenda for cooperation."

The plans will also extend to the exchange of experience in sanitary and phytosanitary (health of plants, especially with respect to international trade) legislation, animal husbandry, plant protection, modern irrigation technology and general training and capacity.

India approves huge agricultural partnership pact with Palestine


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *India approves huge agricultural partnership pact with Palestine*
> 
> The Indian Cabinet has approved a groundbreaking agricultural pact with Palestine; set to boost the Palestinian economy.
> 
> The two countries had signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) in India last month during a visit by the Palestinian minister of foreign affairs, Dr. Riad Al-Malki.
> 
> The pact will offer cooperation in agricultural research, irrigation and climate change along with advancements in veterinary and animal health.
> 
> "Under the MoU" an official statement said, "an agricultural steering committee will be constituted to determine the programmes and action plans to achieve the objectives provided in the MoU. It will also set the agenda for cooperation."
> 
> The plans will also extend to the exchange of experience in sanitary and phytosanitary (health of plants, especially with respect to international trade) legislation, animal husbandry, plant protection, modern irrigation technology and general training and capacity.
> 
> India approves huge agricultural partnership pact with Palestine



"The two countries had signed..."

The "country of Pal'istan".


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *India approves huge agricultural partnership pact with Palestine*
> 
> The Indian Cabinet has approved a groundbreaking agricultural pact with Palestine; set to boost the Palestinian economy.
> 
> The two countries had signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) in India last month during a visit by the Palestinian minister of foreign affairs, Dr. Riad Al-Malki.
> 
> The pact will offer cooperation in agricultural research, irrigation and climate change along with advancements in veterinary and animal health.
> 
> "Under the MoU" an official statement said, "an agricultural steering committee will be constituted to determine the programmes and action plans to achieve the objectives provided in the MoU. It will also set the agenda for cooperation."
> 
> The plans will also extend to the exchange of experience in sanitary and phytosanitary (health of plants, especially with respect to international trade) legislation, animal husbandry, plant protection, modern irrigation technology and general training and capacity.
> 
> India approves huge agricultural partnership pact with Palestine


 
This comes from a site called "Welcome to Palestine."  Not a bad site because it only talks about cities in the West Bank, and not cities in the State of Israel.  With compromises and accommodations by both sides, perhaps the conflict might come to an end, once and for all.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult for Pal'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Death Cult for Pal'istan


Tissue?

Occupations always have a problem with security.

It comes with the territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death Cult for Pal'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...


Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.

It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.

Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death Cult for Pal'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
Click to expand...

Israel only defends its settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death Cult for Pal'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.

Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
Islamo-duty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death Cult for Pal'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.
> 
> Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
> Islamo-duty.
Click to expand...

You are just blabbing Israeli shit.

I am not Muslim.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death Cult for Pal'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.
> 
> Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
> Islamo-duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blabbing Israeli shit.
> 
> I am not Muslim.
Click to expand...

What? They wouldn't have you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.
> 
> Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
> Islamo-duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blabbing Israeli shit.
> 
> I am not Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What? They wouldn't have you?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I never asked.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death Cult for Pal'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.
> 
> Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
> Islamo-duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blabbing Israeli shit.
> 
> I am not Muslim.
Click to expand...


That makes it even worse because you're just a tool of the Muslims.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.
> 
> Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
> Islamo-duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blabbing Israeli shit.
> 
> I am not Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That makes it even worse because you're just a tool of the Muslims.
Click to expand...


How can supporting Palestinian Christians make one a tool of the Muslims?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Acts of Islamic terrorism result in dead Islamics.
> 
> It comes as the result of the ranting s of a 7th century Arab warlord.
> 
> Let's not hear your whining when Israel defends itself by retaliating.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel only defends its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply cutting and lasting your usual slogans.
> 
> Gee-had is both personal and collective. You're failing your is
> Islamo-duty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blabbing Israeli shit.
> 
> I am not Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That makes it even worse because you're just a tool of the Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can supporting Palestinian Christians make one a tool of the Muslims?
Click to expand...


How can supporting Islamic fascists be supportive of the few remaining Christians not yet purged from the two, competing islamist mini-caliphates?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Samar AlHallaq 1985-2014​
We learned last night that Samar AlHallaq, our assistant coordinator in Gaza was killed, along with her two young sons aged four and six, by Israeli bombing in Rimal.  She was carrying her third child.

Her husband Hassan is critically ill in hospital.  Several other members of their family were killed in the same attack.

We are heartbroken beyond belief.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*To have lived in Gaza is to have loved Gaza*

To have lived in Gaza is to have loved Gaza. In 1969/70 when I was in my early 20s I lived and worked for two years in an UNRWA Palestinian refugee camp in the Gaza Strip as a maternal and child health nurse. It was one the most remarkable and enlightening times of my life.

The people are amongst the most generous, loving and fun people I have ever known. The land around the villages, the length and breadth of The Strip, was cultivated with every fruit and vegetable imaginable. The land was lovingly tended by the farmers and their families. The sea was plentiful and generous with its fruits. Small family-owned fishing boats could be seen on the horizon all day, and at night, with their lights, they were known as the road to Cairo.

It was a bustling busy place with a food market, shops, falafel stalls and wonderful restaurants with delicious Palestine cuisine. The beach with its sparkling yellow sand was used by all to eat al fresco and spend lazy afternoons sleeping in the sun. The Strip was occupied by the IDF at this time, but the Palestinian people had picked themselves up after the June 1967 six day war attack on Egypt which took place on Gaza soil.

To have lived in Gaza is to have loved Gaza


----------



## Hollie

To have lived in Gaza'istan is to have been "off'ed" by the Islamic terrorist Gaza'istanians.


----------



## Hollie

The way of "The _Proffett_"

"Kill'em all"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The way of "The _Proffett_"
> 
> "Kill'em all"


You cheer when Israel kill killers.

You bitch when Hamas kill killers.

Why the double standard?


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## montelatici




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The way of "The _Proffett_"
> 
> "Kill'em all"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cheer when Israel kill killers.
> 
> You bitch when Hamas kill killers.
> 
> Why the double standard?
Click to expand...


You make no sense.


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## Hollie

montelatici said:


> View attachment 134309



As pointless as your usual cut and paste cartoons.


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## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> View attachment 134309


But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.

Another double standard.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 134309
> 
> 
> 
> But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.
> 
> Another double standard.
Click to expand...


Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl. 

You pompous little wannabe.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 134309
> 
> 
> 
> But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.
> 
> Another double standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl.
> 
> You pompous little wannabe.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to deflect from candy ass IDF troops attacking women?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 134309
> 
> 
> 
> But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.
> 
> Another double standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl.
> 
> You pompous little wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to deflect from candy ass IDF troops attacking women?
Click to expand...


Are you still threatening to beat up women?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 134309
> 
> 
> 
> But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.
> 
> Another double standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl.
> 
> You pompous little wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to deflect from candy ass IDF troops attacking women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still threatening to beat up women?
Click to expand...

What a stupid post. You need to get with your handlers for some better material.


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 134309
> 
> 
> 
> But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.
> 
> Another double standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl.
> 
> You pompous little wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to deflect from candy ass IDF troops attacking women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still threatening to beat up women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post. You need to get with your handlers for some better material.
Click to expand...


Such an angry little Islamist.


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## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


>


And those fake Christians, like that fat fuck Hagee, support Israels treatment of Christians.


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## Hollie

Israel celebrates "knock-knock" also.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it is illegal to hit any of those IDF candy asses.
> 
> Another double standard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl.
> 
> You pompous little wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to deflect from candy ass IDF troops attacking women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still threatening to beat up women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post. You need to get with your handlers for some better material.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry little Islamist.
Click to expand...

You should get fired like your predecessor if that is the best you can do.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel celebrates "knock-knock" also.


Thank you for posting more Israeli war crimes.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel celebrates "knock-knock" also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting more Israeli war crimes.
Click to expand...


Link?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
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> Keep your hands to yourself, Habib. Or get smacked down by a girl.
> 
> You pompous little wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to deflect from candy ass IDF troops attacking women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still threatening to beat up women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post. You need to get with your handlers for some better material.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry little Islamist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should get fired like your predecessor if that is the best you can do.
Click to expand...


Islamists laugh at your gee-had.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel celebrates "knock-knock" also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting more Israeli war crimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Link? You already posted the video. The crime is right there on tape.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> Israel celebrates "knock-knock" also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting more Israeli war crimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link? You already posted the video. The crime is right there on tape.
Click to expand...


Link?


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Arabs celebrate their humanity


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arabs celebrate their humanity


You played another terrorist card.

Good girl.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs celebrate their humanity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played another terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


You copied and pasted another of your slogans. 

Good muhammud.


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Al Islamic terrorist fashion show day.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Al Islamic terrorist fashion show day.


Thank you. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.

This is why the IDF got its ass kicked the last time they tried to enter Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*AFP SYMPOSIUM 2016: SESSION ONE - Randa Abdel-Fattah *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore

*Plight Of Christians Under Zionist Occupation / Holy Land Report *

**


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## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So you post a report from fake Christians.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Plight Of Christians Under Zionist Occupation / Holy Land Report *
> 
> **



So you cut and paste from faux xtians?


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## P F Tinmore

*One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict *

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict *
> 
> **



This video is 2 hours long.  People have lives.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*

11 PEOPLE WE SHOULD BAN INSTEAD OF MUSLIMS (ft. Lilly Singh / iiSuperwomanii)


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UK elects first Member of Parliament of Palestinian heritage*

Britain’s first elected Member of Parliament (MP) has overturned a Conservative Majority to win the Oxford West and Abingdon seat in the recent general election.

MP Layla Moran won the closely contested election by 816 votes, earning 26,252 in total.

Prior to the election, Moran told The New Arab that she will be “a representative of our community in parliament, and it will be a great honour which I take humbly.”

UK elects first Member of Parliament of Palestinian heritage


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## P F Tinmore




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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:

Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:


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## louie888

rylah said:


> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe....


BDS is now a massive movement and it appears that there is no end in site.

It has been only 10 years Palestinian civil society issued the call for BDS.

Check it out...

*May 10, 2017 – Associated Students, Inc. Senate at Cal State University – Long Beach (CSULB) passes resolution to divest from Israel – Long Beach, California


April 25, 2017 – University of California at Riverside Student Senate calls for divestment – Riverside, California


April 19, 2017 – Pitzer College passes new bylaws prohibiting use of student funds for companies or products associated with Israeli occupation – Claremont, California


April 9, 2017 – Tufts Community Union Senate passes divestment – Medford, Massachusetts


March 21, 2017 – Sacramento City College becomes first city college to pass divestment resolution – Sacramento, California


March 15, 2017 – De Anza becomes first Community College Student Senate to pass divestment – Cupertino, California


March 3, 2017 – University of South Florida students pass referendum to divest from Israeli apartheid, fossil fuels, private prisons, human rights violations – Tampa, Florida


February 2, 2017 – University of California at Riverside Associated Students vote unanimously to remove Israeli military-associated company Sabra hummus from campus – Riverside, California


November 13, 2016 – Manchester University — home of first Peace Studies in world — Student Senate votes unanimously in support of BDS, divestment – North Manchester, Indiana


October 26, 2016 – Associated Students of Portland State University Pass Divestment Resolution In Support of Palestinian Human Rights – Portland, Oregon


May 31, 2016 – Evergreen State College students vote to condemn the presence of Caterpillar equipment on campus – Olympia, Washington


May 31, 2016 – Overwhelming 73.9% Vote by Evergreen State College Students to Deshelve Sabra Hummus on Campus – Olympia, Washington


May 19, 2016 – University of Wisconsin at Madison Graduate Student Union Endorses BDS – Madison, Wisconsin


May 17, 2016 – Religious Studies Scholars Endorse BDS


April 26, 2016 – University of California at Merced Student Government Passes Divestment Resolution – Merced, California


April 12, 2016 – University of Minnesota student government passes divestment – Minneapolis, Minnesota


April 12, 2016 – University of Chicago College Council Votes to Divest from Israeli Apartheid – Chicago, Illinois


April 4, 2016 – Rutgers University-Newark Student Governing Association Passes Divestment Resolution – Newark, NJ


April 2, 2016 – University of Indianapolis Student Senate passes resolution to divest from companies profiting from occupation, deshelve Sabra hummus – Indianapolis, IN


March 6, 2016 – Vassar Student Association Passes Resolution Endorsing the BDS Movement – Arlington, NY


February 22, 2016 – Thirty Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis Faculty and Staff Group Endorses Boycott of Israel – Indianapolis, IN


February 16, 2016 – University of Illinois at Chicago Undergraduate Student Government Assembly Passes Divestment Resolution Unanimously – Chicago, Illinois


January 19, 2016 – University of South Florida Student Government Senate Passes Joint Resolution for Divestment – Tampa, Florida


November 18, 2015 – San Jose State University Students Pass Resolution to Divest from Corporations that profit from the Israeli Occupation – San Jose, California


June 22, 2015 – Columbia University divests from private prisons including G4S, following coalition-led campaign – Manhattan, New York


April 30, 2015 – Oglethorpe University student goverment passes resolution to divest from Israeli occupation – Atlanta, Georgia


April 29, 2015 – Princeton graduate students pass divestment referendum – Princeton, New Jersey


April 22, 2015 – Earlham Student Senate passes resolution in support of divestment from Israeli occupation – Richmond, Indiana


April 16, 2015 – Wesleyan University president agrees to divest university from prisons as first step when Wesleyan students call for divestment from fossil fuels, prisons, and Israeli occupation – Middletown, Connecticut


March 25, 2015 – Student Government of Loyola Chicago passes resolution to divest – Chicago, Illinois


March 2, 2015 – Toledo student government calls for University divestment by margin of 21:4 – Toledo, Ohio


February 19, 2015 – Northwestern University Student Government calls for university divestment – Evanston, Illinois


February 17, 2015 – Stanford divestment passes in a landslide victory – Stanford, California


February 8, 2015 – University of California Student Association — representing hundreds of thousands of UC students statewide — endorses call for UC divestment in support of Palestinian rights – State of California


May 29, 2015 – University of California at Davis Associated Students pass divestment bill – Davis, California


December 5, 2014 – Wesleyan University Dining Facilities Remove Sabra Following Successful Boycott Campaign – Middletown, Connecticut


November, 2014 – University of California at Los Angeles undergraduate student government passes divestment resolution – Los Angeles, California


August 9-10, 2014 – United Students Against Sweatshops Endorses BDS


May 28, 2014 – University of California at Santa Cruz student government passes divestment resolution – Santa Cruz, California


May 23, 2014 – DePaul student body votes for divestment despite Israeli government interference – Chicago, Illinois


May, 2014 – Wesleyan Students Association divests its student endowment from Israeli occupation, calls for full university divestment – Middletown, Connecticut


April, 2014 – More than 10,000 Univ. of South Florida students call for divestment — largest petition in state’s history – Tampa, Florida


April, 2014 – University of New Mexico Graduate & Professional Student Association vote for divestment from companies involved in human rights violations in Palestine and on U.S.-Mexico border – Albuquerque, New Mexico


May 5, 2013 – Oberlin College Student Senate passes divestment Resolution – Oberlin, OH


April, 2013 – University of California at Berkeley Student Senate passes divestment – Berkeley, California


March 7,  2013  –  University of California at Riverside Associated Students Council pass resolution calling for divestment – Riverside, California


March, 2013 – University of California at San Diego Associated Students Council pass resolution calling for divestment – San Diego, California


November 14, 2012 – Brown University Advisory Committee on Corporate Responsibility in Investment Policies calls on Brown Corporation to divest from the Israeli occupation – Providence, Rhode Island


November, 2012 – University of California at Irvine Associated Students unanimously pass resolution urging divestment from companies that profit from Israel’s occupation of Palestine – Irvine, California


September 2012 – Swarthmore College Deshelves Sabra Following Student Petition – Philadelphia, PA


September 5, 2012 – Earlham College Dining Services Stops Selling Sabra in Response to Student and Faculty Concerns – Richmond, Indiana


June 5, 2012 – Arizona State University Student Government Votes to Divest from Israel – Tempe, Arizona


June 4, 2012 – The Evergreen State College Flaming Eggplant Cafe Announces Boycott of Israeli Products – Olympia, Washington


April 18, 2012 – UMass-Boston Student Government passes resolution to divest from Boeing – Boston, Massachusetts


March 30 , 2012 – National Movimiento Estudiantil Chican@ de Aztlán (MEChA) Endorses Palestinian Boycott of Israel


May/November, 2011 – Majority of DePaul students vote to boycott Sabra Hummus; force ethical alternatives offered – Chicago, Illinois


June 2, 2010 – Evergreen State College student body votes for boycott of Caterpillar equipment, becoming “CAT-free campus”; Student Senate votes unanimously to support BDS


Spring, 2010 – Evergreen State College Student Body votes for divestment from companies involved in Israeli occupation – Olympia, Washington


February 12, 2009 – Hampshire College becomes first campus to divest from the Israeli occupation – Amherst, Massachusetts


2005, 2006, 2010, 2014 – University of Michigan at Dearborn Student Government passes divestment resolution – Dearborn, Michigan


April, 2003 – Wayne State University student council votes for divestiture – Detroit, Michigan


Cultural Boycott

(See joint Cultural/Academic Boycott victories listed below under Academic Boycott)


February 23, 2017 – U.S. Literary Festival PEN America proceeds without Israeli government sponsorship following appeals from leading writers – National


February 22, 2017 – Oscars Celebrities #Skipthetrip to Israel – National


February 9, 2017 – Super Ball star Michael Bennett boycotts trip to Israel, says he won’t be used by Israel – National


December, 2015 – American journalist Doug Henwood refuses to have his book on Hillary Clinton translated into Hebrew


July, 2015 – Thurstoj Moore of Sonic Youth endorses BDS


June 19-21, 2015 – Three Queer Cultural Organizations Cut Ties with Frameline SF International LGBT Film Festival Over Israeli Sponsorship – San Francisco, California


June, 2015 – Queer Women of Color Media Arts Project Announces Support for BDS, boycotts Frameline LGBT Festival – San Francisco, California


May 4, 2015 – Lauryn Hill cancels performance in Israel in response to calls for boycott


May, 2015 – Black Lives Matter Co-founder Patrisse Cullors endorses BDS


October, 2014 – Musician and Poet Boots Riley of The Coup endorses the call for the cultural and academic boycott of Israel


October, 2014 – Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist and MacArthur “genius award” recipient Junot Diaz endorses BDS


May 26, 2014 – American Rapper Talib Kweli cancels Israel gig


April 7, 2014 – Milwaukee People’s Books Coop endorses BDS – Milwaukee, Wisconsin


Spring, 2014 – Public Enemy’s Chuck D endorses BDS


August 14, 2013 – Influential jazz drummer Chris Daddy Dave cancels participation in Red Sea Jazz Festival


July 11, 2013 – Rock band The Killers pulls out of of Tel Aviv concert


November 29, 2012 – Stevie Wonder cancels performance for Friends of Israeli Defense Forces in response to calls for boycott


October, 2012 – Hip Hop duo Rebel Diaz cancel performance at Creative Time Summit, 2012, due to sponsorship by Israeli government-funded institution


June 21, 2013 – Mira Nair boycotts Haifa Film Festival


June 20, 2012 – Pulitzer Prize-winning author Alice Walker refuses permission to Israeli publisher, Yedhiot Books, to publish The Color Purple


March, 2012 – Seattle LGBT Commission Cancels “Pinkwashing” Event Sponsored by Israeli Consulate (Events in Olympia and Tacoma Also Canceled) – Seattle, Olympia, and Tacoma, Washington


February, 2012 – Singer-songwriter Cat Power cancels Tel Aviv concert


February, 2012 – American jazz singer Cassandra Wilson cancels performance at Holon International Women’s Festival


February, 2012 – American Indie Pop Band “The Pains of Being Pure at Heart” cancels Tel Aviv show


January, 2012 – Tune-Yards band cancels gig in Israel; Merrill Garbus, lead singer, is a signatory of the Artists Against Israeli Apartheid pledge


Summer, 2011 – 11 Indigenous and Women of Color Feminists, including prominent intellectual & activist Angela Davis, unequivocally endorse BDS


June, 2011 – Basketball legend and actor Kareem Abdul-Jabbar cancels visit to Israel in response to “Nakba Day violence”


April, 2011 – Washington University Hip-Hop Program Revokes Invitation to Israeli Cultural Ambassador – St. Louis, Missouri


July 7, 2010 – Dustin Hoffman & Meg Ryan pull out of 2010 Film Festival after Mavi Marmara massacre


June, 2010 – Carlos Santana cancels concert in Tel Aviv following boycott calls


June, 2010 – The Pixies cancel concert in wake of Mavi Marmara massacre


May, 2010 – Renowned American poet and musician Gil Scott-Heron cancels concert in Israel


November, 2009 – New Orleans Theatre Zeitgeist signs on to BDS guidelines– New Orleans, Louisiana


August 17, 2009 – Amnesty International Withdraws from Leonard Cohen’s Israel Concert Fund


December 2008 – Stars’ Photos Removed from Leviev Website as Celebs Seek Distance from Rights Abuser


July 23, 2008 – Snoop Dogg cancels performance in Israel


Academic Boycott

April 15, 2016 – CUNY Graduate Students Vote for Academic Boycott of Israel – New York, NY


November 27, 2015 – National Women’s Studies Association Members Join the BDS Movement


November 21, 2015 – American Anthropological Association (AAA) Conference Passes BDS Resolution with 88% Majority


April, 2015 – National Association of Chicana and Chicano Studies endorses boycott of Israeli academic institutions


January 14, 2014 & November 10, 2015 – Green Party of the U.S. defends and endorses ASA and AAA boycotts of Israeli academic institutions


November 15, 2014 – Peace and Justice Studies Association endorses BDS – International


July 18, 2014 – Critical Ethnic Studies Association passes BDS resolution supporting academic boycott – International


December 15, 2013 – Native American and Indigenous Studies Association endorses boycott of Israeli academic institutions


December, 2013 – American Studies Association endorses academic boycott of Israel by sweeping majority membership vote after national council passes unanimously


October 24, 2013 – Association for Humanist Sociology Votes to Support the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel – International


April, 2013 – General Membership of Association for Asian American Studies votes to support academic boycott of Israel


September, 2012 – Prominent academic Judith Butler reaffirms support for BDS


May 4, 2012 – Columbia University Prof. Franke boycotts conference with “featured nation” Israel & Israeli Ambassador keynote speech


November, 2009 – Prominent intellectual Sarah Schulman boycotts Lesbian & Gay Studies conference at Tel Aviv


Faith-Based Actions

January 19, 2017 – Majilis Ash-Shura / Islamic Leadership Council of New York endorse BDS – New York, New York


December 10, 2016 – Pax Christi International endorses BDS – International


August 13, 2016 – Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Overwhelmingly Passes Investment Screen


August 13, 2016 – Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Votes 82% Against Unconditional U.S. Aid to Israel


April 10, 2016 – Alliance of Baptists Divests from Companies Profiting from Israel’s Occupation of Palestinian Land


April 7, 2016 – Unitarian Universalists Divest from Companies Profiting from Israel’s Occupation


March 30, 2016 – Catholic Conference of Major Superiors of Men Calls for Boycott of Illegal Settlements


January, 2016 – United Methodist Church Excludes Top 5 Israeli Banks for Involvement in Illegal Settlements


December 2015 – United Methodist Church declares Israeli company Elbit Systems, long excluded for weapons production, also ineligible for investment due to involvement in human rights violations


June 30, 2015 – United Church of Christ General Synod votes overwhelmingly to boycott and divest from Israeli occupation


June, 2015 – National Council of Fellowship of Reconciliation Unanimously Endorses BDS


July 31, 2014 – No Más Muertes endorses Palestinian call for BDS


June 20, 2014 – Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly divests from companies involved in Israeli occupation


June 12, 2014 – United Methodist Church divests from G4S in response to role in Israeli prisons


Winter 2013/2014 – United Methodist Church General Board of Church and Society Boycotts Sodastream


March 16, 2013 – Mennonite Central Committee unanimously adopts AFSC 29-company no-buy list for divestment


18 Victories spanning 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 – 18 Quaker Meetings Across 15 States Endorse Boycott, Divestment, and, in some cases, Both


September, 2012 – Quaker Friends Fiduciary Corporation divests from HP, Veolia


July, 2012 – Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly votes to boycott settlement products


May, 2012 – United Methodist Church General Conference votes to boycott settlement products


May, 2012 – Quaker Friends Fiduciary Corporation divests from Caterpillar


June, 2010 – Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly calls for U.S. Government to place sanctions on military assistance to Israel


March 8, 2008 – American Friends Service Committee approves Israel-Palestine Investment Screen


October 21, 2007 – National Coalition of American Nuns Publicly Urges Boycott of Caterpillar


Summer, 2005 – United Church of Christ General Synod calls for the use of Economic Leverage — including ending military aid and divestment — to promote peace in Middle East


Dozens of Victories spanning 2005 – 2015 – 18 United Methodist Church Annual Conferences — representing thousands of churches and hundreds of thousands of members — adopt 30 resolutions and statements calling for divestment; several divest their own conference funds


Pensions & Other Investment Funds

(Not otherwise listed above)


August 3, 2014 – Soros Fund Management drops SodaStream


June 6, 2014 – Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation divests from G4S


Between July and November, 2013 – Pension giant TIAA-CREF divests Social Choice fund from Veolia


Between March and August, 2013 – TIAA-CREF divests from SodaStream


July, 2012 – Abigail Disney renounces shares of Ahava


June, 2012 – Morgan Stanley Capital International removes Caterpillar from socially responsible companies list


May/June, 2012 – Pension giant TIAA-CREF divests Social Choice fund from Caterpillar


September 12, 2009 – TIAA-CREF divests from Africa-Israel company due to violations of “human rights and international law”


Boycotting & De-Shelving Israeli Products

(Many more listed above in other sections)


April 21, 2014 – Earth Day Network cuts ties with Sodastream


July, 2014 – Cambridge fixture Pemberton Farms stops selling Sabra following Boston BDS campaign – Cambridge, Massachusetts


2014 – Balady Foods deshelves Sabra hummus – Brooklyn, New York


January 24, 2014 – KQED Public Radio Pulls SodaStream from Gifts to Donors – Bay Area, California


January, 2014 – Hollywood Star Scarlett Johansson resigns as Oxfam International Global Ambassador due to deal with Sodastream


December, 2013 – Harvest Coop deshelves Sabra following boycott Boston BDS campaign – Cambridge and Boston, Massachusetts


January, 2012 – Lincoln-Way High School deshelves Sabra hummus – Chicago, Illinois


March, 2011 – National Cathedral gift store affiliated with Episcopal Church removes Ahava products after complaints from patrons – Washington, DC


July 15, 2010 – Olympia Food Co-op removes Israeli goods from shelves; first US store to institute boycott – Olympia, Washington


January 18, 2010 – Costco stops selling Ahava


Municipal & State Victories

April 6, 2017 – Portland City Council Permanently Halts All Investments in Private Corporations Following Historic Campaign – Portland, Oregon


December 21, 2016 – In Historic Vote, City of Portland Votes to Temporarily Cease Investments in All Corporate Securities Including Occupation Profiteer Caterpillar and Prison Profiteer Wells Fargo – Portland, Oregon


July 19, 2016 – City of Berkeley divests from G4S – Berkeley, CA


Spring 2016 – Denver Water Board Drops G4S Following BDS Campaign – Denver, CO


March 17, 2016 – Portland’s Socially Responsible Investment Committee Recommends City Boycott of Caterpillar – Portland, OR


January 2016 – Delaware Neighbors Against the Occupation Defeats Anti-BDS Bill – New Castle County, DE


October 12, 2015 – Portland Human Rights Commission Unanimously Endorses Placing 4 Companies on No-Buy List, First Step Towards Becoming Occupation Free City – Portland, Oregon


April, 2015 – Oregon Dept of Justice Mandates that SodaStream Change Misleading Product Labels – Portland, Oregon


December 3, 2014 – Baltimore Rejects Veolia following coalition campaign – Baltimore, Maryland


November, 2014 – Durham severs ties with G4S – Durham, North Carolina


January 8, 2014 – Veolia loses Massachusetts commuter rail contract – Boston, Massachusetts


October 29, 2013 – St. Louis Dumps Veolia – St. Louis, Missouri


January, 2013 – Veolia Withdraws from California Water Contract Bidding -Yolo County (Woodland and Davis), California


Corporate Announcements

(Not listed elsewhere)


December 2, 2016 – Following years of BDS campaigns, G4S ends most illegal business in Israel, sells most Israel business – International


March 9, 2016 – Ahava Announces Factory Relocation Outside of Occupied West Bank


August 28, 2015 – Veolia divests completely from Israeli market


October 29, 2014 – SodaStream moves factory out of Palestinian West Bank


Labor, Diplomatic, & Other

August 1, 2016 – Movement for Black Lives Platform Calls for BDS


June 6, 2016 – Green Party Candidate for President Endorses BDS


April 22, 2016 – New York University Graduate Employee Union Becomes First Private University Labor Union to Support Full BDS – New York, NY


April 14, 2016 – UMass Amherst Graduate Employee Union (UAW) Overwhelmingly Endorses BDS – Amherst, Massachusetts


October 22, 2015 – Connecticut AFL-CIO Convention Calls on National Federation to Adopt BDS – Connecticut


August 16-20, 2015 – United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers (UE) Becomes First National Union in U.S. to Endorse BDS


August, 2015 – Over 1,000 Black activists, artists, scholars, students and organizations sign Black Solidarity Statement with Palestine, endorsing BDS


March 3, 2015 – 60 U.S. elected officials publicly #SkiptheSpeech by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, effectively boycotting him


December 10, 2014 – Members of University of California Graduate Student-Worker’s Union UAW 2865 ratify resolution to join BDS movement – State of California


November, 2014 – Dream Defenders endorse BDS at National Conference


Fall, 2014 – West Coast “Block the Boat” Port Actions Prevent Zim Lines from Docking – West Coast


July 7, 2010 – California International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) Local 10 Branch refuses to unload Israeli cargo ship – Oakland, California


October, 2008 – Oxfam International publicly denounces donor Lev Leviev due to support for Israeli settlements


June 21, 2008 – UNICEF severs ties with Israeli mogul Lev Leviev over settlement building


November 28, 2005 – Greens, Calling for Palestinian Rights, Urge Divestment from Israel*

*UPDATED: List of 200+ U.S. BDS Victories! - US Campaign for Palestinian Rights*


----------



## rylah

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe....
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is now a massive movement and it appears that there is no end in site.
> 
> It has been only 10 years Palestinian civil society issued the call for BDS.
> 
> Check it out...
> 
> *May 10, 2017 – Associated Students, Inc. Senate at Cal State University – Long Beach (CSULB) passes resolution to divest from Israel – Long Beach, California
> 
> 
> April 25, 2017 – University of California at Riverside Student Senate calls for divestment – Riverside, California
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017 – Pitzer College passes new bylaws prohibiting use of student funds for companies or products associated with Israeli occupation – Claremont, California
> 
> 
> April 9, 2017 – Tufts Community Union Senate passes divestment – Medford, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> March 21, 2017 – Sacramento City College becomes first city college to pass divestment resolution – Sacramento, California
> 
> 
> March 15, 2017 – De Anza becomes first Community College Student Senate to pass divestment – Cupertino, California
> 
> 
> March 3, 2017 – University of South Florida students pass referendum to divest from Israeli apartheid, fossil fuels, private prisons, human rights violations – Tampa, Florida
> 
> 
> February 2, 2017 – University of California at Riverside Associated Students vote unanimously to remove Israeli military-associated company Sabra hummus from campus – Riverside, California
> 
> 
> November 13, 2016 – Manchester University — home of first Peace Studies in world — Student Senate votes unanimously in support of BDS, divestment – North Manchester, Indiana
> 
> 
> October 26, 2016 – Associated Students of Portland State University Pass Divestment Resolution In Support of Palestinian Human Rights – Portland, Oregon
> 
> 
> May 31, 2016 – Evergreen State College students vote to condemn the presence of Caterpillar equipment on campus – Olympia, Washington
> 
> 
> May 31, 2016 – Overwhelming 73.9% Vote by Evergreen State College Students to Deshelve Sabra Hummus on Campus – Olympia, Washington
> 
> 
> May 19, 2016 – University of Wisconsin at Madison Graduate Student Union Endorses BDS – Madison, Wisconsin
> 
> 
> May 17, 2016 – Religious Studies Scholars Endorse BDS
> 
> 
> April 26, 2016 – University of California at Merced Student Government Passes Divestment Resolution – Merced, California
> 
> 
> April 12, 2016 – University of Minnesota student government passes divestment – Minneapolis, Minnesota
> 
> 
> April 12, 2016 – University of Chicago College Council Votes to Divest from Israeli Apartheid – Chicago, Illinois
> 
> 
> April 4, 2016 – Rutgers University-Newark Student Governing Association Passes Divestment Resolution – Newark, NJ
> 
> 
> April 2, 2016 – University of Indianapolis Student Senate passes resolution to divest from companies profiting from occupation, deshelve Sabra hummus – Indianapolis, IN
> 
> 
> March 6, 2016 – Vassar Student Association Passes Resolution Endorsing the BDS Movement – Arlington, NY
> 
> 
> February 22, 2016 – Thirty Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis Faculty and Staff Group Endorses Boycott of Israel – Indianapolis, IN
> 
> 
> February 16, 2016 – University of Illinois at Chicago Undergraduate Student Government Assembly Passes Divestment Resolution Unanimously – Chicago, Illinois
> 
> 
> January 19, 2016 – University of South Florida Student Government Senate Passes Joint Resolution for Divestment – Tampa, Florida
> 
> 
> November 18, 2015 – San Jose State University Students Pass Resolution to Divest from Corporations that profit from the Israeli Occupation – San Jose, California
> 
> 
> June 22, 2015 – Columbia University divests from private prisons including G4S, following coalition-led campaign – Manhattan, New York
> 
> 
> April 30, 2015 – Oglethorpe University student goverment passes resolution to divest from Israeli occupation – Atlanta, Georgia
> 
> 
> April 29, 2015 – Princeton graduate students pass divestment referendum – Princeton, New Jersey
> 
> 
> April 22, 2015 – Earlham Student Senate passes resolution in support of divestment from Israeli occupation – Richmond, Indiana
> 
> 
> April 16, 2015 – Wesleyan University president agrees to divest university from prisons as first step when Wesleyan students call for divestment from fossil fuels, prisons, and Israeli occupation – Middletown, Connecticut
> 
> 
> March 25, 2015 – Student Government of Loyola Chicago passes resolution to divest – Chicago, Illinois
> 
> 
> March 2, 2015 – Toledo student government calls for University divestment by margin of 21:4 – Toledo, Ohio
> 
> 
> February 19, 2015 – Northwestern University Student Government calls for university divestment – Evanston, Illinois
> 
> 
> February 17, 2015 – Stanford divestment passes in a landslide victory – Stanford, California
> 
> 
> February 8, 2015 – University of California Student Association — representing hundreds of thousands of UC students statewide — endorses call for UC divestment in support of Palestinian rights – State of California
> 
> 
> May 29, 2015 – University of California at Davis Associated Students pass divestment bill – Davis, California
> 
> 
> December 5, 2014 – Wesleyan University Dining Facilities Remove Sabra Following Successful Boycott Campaign – Middletown, Connecticut
> 
> 
> November, 2014 – University of California at Los Angeles undergraduate student government passes divestment resolution – Los Angeles, California
> 
> 
> August 9-10, 2014 – United Students Against Sweatshops Endorses BDS
> 
> 
> May 28, 2014 – University of California at Santa Cruz student government passes divestment resolution – Santa Cruz, California
> 
> 
> May 23, 2014 – DePaul student body votes for divestment despite Israeli government interference – Chicago, Illinois
> 
> 
> May, 2014 – Wesleyan Students Association divests its student endowment from Israeli occupation, calls for full university divestment – Middletown, Connecticut
> 
> 
> April, 2014 – More than 10,000 Univ. of South Florida students call for divestment — largest petition in state’s history – Tampa, Florida
> 
> 
> April, 2014 – University of New Mexico Graduate & Professional Student Association vote for divestment from companies involved in human rights violations in Palestine and on U.S.-Mexico border – Albuquerque, New Mexico
> 
> 
> May 5, 2013 – Oberlin College Student Senate passes divestment Resolution – Oberlin, OH
> 
> 
> April, 2013 – University of California at Berkeley Student Senate passes divestment – Berkeley, California
> 
> 
> March 7,  2013  –  University of California at Riverside Associated Students Council pass resolution calling for divestment – Riverside, California
> 
> 
> March, 2013 – University of California at San Diego Associated Students Council pass resolution calling for divestment – San Diego, California
> 
> 
> November 14, 2012 – Brown University Advisory Committee on Corporate Responsibility in Investment Policies calls on Brown Corporation to divest from the Israeli occupation – Providence, Rhode Island
> 
> 
> November, 2012 – University of California at Irvine Associated Students unanimously pass resolution urging divestment from companies that profit from Israel’s occupation of Palestine – Irvine, California
> 
> 
> September 2012 – Swarthmore College Deshelves Sabra Following Student Petition – Philadelphia, PA
> 
> 
> September 5, 2012 – Earlham College Dining Services Stops Selling Sabra in Response to Student and Faculty Concerns – Richmond, Indiana
> 
> 
> June 5, 2012 – Arizona State University Student Government Votes to Divest from Israel – Tempe, Arizona
> 
> 
> June 4, 2012 – The Evergreen State College Flaming Eggplant Cafe Announces Boycott of Israeli Products – Olympia, Washington
> 
> 
> April 18, 2012 – UMass-Boston Student Government passes resolution to divest from Boeing – Boston, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> March 30 , 2012 – National Movimiento Estudiantil Chican@ de Aztlán (MEChA) Endorses Palestinian Boycott of Israel
> 
> 
> May/November, 2011 – Majority of DePaul students vote to boycott Sabra Hummus; force ethical alternatives offered – Chicago, Illinois
> 
> 
> June 2, 2010 – Evergreen State College student body votes for boycott of Caterpillar equipment, becoming “CAT-free campus”; Student Senate votes unanimously to support BDS
> 
> 
> Spring, 2010 – Evergreen State College Student Body votes for divestment from companies involved in Israeli occupation – Olympia, Washington
> 
> 
> February 12, 2009 – Hampshire College becomes first campus to divest from the Israeli occupation – Amherst, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> 2005, 2006, 2010, 2014 – University of Michigan at Dearborn Student Government passes divestment resolution – Dearborn, Michigan
> 
> 
> April, 2003 – Wayne State University student council votes for divestiture – Detroit, Michigan
> 
> 
> Cultural Boycott
> 
> (See joint Cultural/Academic Boycott victories listed below under Academic Boycott)
> 
> 
> February 23, 2017 – U.S. Literary Festival PEN America proceeds without Israeli government sponsorship following appeals from leading writers – National
> 
> 
> February 22, 2017 – Oscars Celebrities #Skipthetrip to Israel – National
> 
> 
> February 9, 2017 – Super Ball star Michael Bennett boycotts trip to Israel, says he won’t be used by Israel – National
> 
> 
> December, 2015 – American journalist Doug Henwood refuses to have his book on Hillary Clinton translated into Hebrew
> 
> 
> July, 2015 – Thurstoj Moore of Sonic Youth endorses BDS
> 
> 
> June 19-21, 2015 – Three Queer Cultural Organizations Cut Ties with Frameline SF International LGBT Film Festival Over Israeli Sponsorship – San Francisco, California
> 
> 
> June, 2015 – Queer Women of Color Media Arts Project Announces Support for BDS, boycotts Frameline LGBT Festival – San Francisco, California
> 
> 
> May 4, 2015 – Lauryn Hill cancels performance in Israel in response to calls for boycott
> 
> 
> May, 2015 – Black Lives Matter Co-founder Patrisse Cullors endorses BDS
> 
> 
> October, 2014 – Musician and Poet Boots Riley of The Coup endorses the call for the cultural and academic boycott of Israel
> 
> 
> October, 2014 – Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist and MacArthur “genius award” recipient Junot Diaz endorses BDS
> 
> 
> May 26, 2014 – American Rapper Talib Kweli cancels Israel gig
> 
> 
> April 7, 2014 – Milwaukee People’s Books Coop endorses BDS – Milwaukee, Wisconsin
> 
> 
> Spring, 2014 – Public Enemy’s Chuck D endorses BDS
> 
> 
> August 14, 2013 – Influential jazz drummer Chris Daddy Dave cancels participation in Red Sea Jazz Festival
> 
> 
> July 11, 2013 – Rock band The Killers pulls out of of Tel Aviv concert
> 
> 
> November 29, 2012 – Stevie Wonder cancels performance for Friends of Israeli Defense Forces in response to calls for boycott
> 
> 
> October, 2012 – Hip Hop duo Rebel Diaz cancel performance at Creative Time Summit, 2012, due to sponsorship by Israeli government-funded institution
> 
> 
> June 21, 2013 – Mira Nair boycotts Haifa Film Festival
> 
> 
> June 20, 2012 – Pulitzer Prize-winning author Alice Walker refuses permission to Israeli publisher, Yedhiot Books, to publish The Color Purple
> 
> 
> March, 2012 – Seattle LGBT Commission Cancels “Pinkwashing” Event Sponsored by Israeli Consulate (Events in Olympia and Tacoma Also Canceled) – Seattle, Olympia, and Tacoma, Washington
> 
> 
> February, 2012 – Singer-songwriter Cat Power cancels Tel Aviv concert
> 
> 
> February, 2012 – American jazz singer Cassandra Wilson cancels performance at Holon International Women’s Festival
> 
> 
> February, 2012 – American Indie Pop Band “The Pains of Being Pure at Heart” cancels Tel Aviv show
> 
> 
> January, 2012 – Tune-Yards band cancels gig in Israel; Merrill Garbus, lead singer, is a signatory of the Artists Against Israeli Apartheid pledge
> 
> 
> Summer, 2011 – 11 Indigenous and Women of Color Feminists, including prominent intellectual & activist Angela Davis, unequivocally endorse BDS
> 
> 
> June, 2011 – Basketball legend and actor Kareem Abdul-Jabbar cancels visit to Israel in response to “Nakba Day violence”
> 
> 
> April, 2011 – Washington University Hip-Hop Program Revokes Invitation to Israeli Cultural Ambassador – St. Louis, Missouri
> 
> 
> July 7, 2010 – Dustin Hoffman & Meg Ryan pull out of 2010 Film Festival after Mavi Marmara massacre
> 
> 
> June, 2010 – Carlos Santana cancels concert in Tel Aviv following boycott calls
> 
> 
> June, 2010 – The Pixies cancel concert in wake of Mavi Marmara massacre
> 
> 
> May, 2010 – Renowned American poet and musician Gil Scott-Heron cancels concert in Israel
> 
> 
> November, 2009 – New Orleans Theatre Zeitgeist signs on to BDS guidelines– New Orleans, Louisiana
> 
> 
> August 17, 2009 – Amnesty International Withdraws from Leonard Cohen’s Israel Concert Fund
> 
> 
> December 2008 – Stars’ Photos Removed from Leviev Website as Celebs Seek Distance from Rights Abuser
> 
> 
> July 23, 2008 – Snoop Dogg cancels performance in Israel
> 
> 
> Academic Boycott
> 
> April 15, 2016 – CUNY Graduate Students Vote for Academic Boycott of Israel – New York, NY
> 
> 
> November 27, 2015 – National Women’s Studies Association Members Join the BDS Movement
> 
> 
> November 21, 2015 – American Anthropological Association (AAA) Conference Passes BDS Resolution with 88% Majority
> 
> 
> April, 2015 – National Association of Chicana and Chicano Studies endorses boycott of Israeli academic institutions
> 
> 
> January 14, 2014 & November 10, 2015 – Green Party of the U.S. defends and endorses ASA and AAA boycotts of Israeli academic institutions
> 
> 
> November 15, 2014 – Peace and Justice Studies Association endorses BDS – International
> 
> 
> July 18, 2014 – Critical Ethnic Studies Association passes BDS resolution supporting academic boycott – International
> 
> 
> December 15, 2013 – Native American and Indigenous Studies Association endorses boycott of Israeli academic institutions
> 
> 
> December, 2013 – American Studies Association endorses academic boycott of Israel by sweeping majority membership vote after national council passes unanimously
> 
> 
> October 24, 2013 – Association for Humanist Sociology Votes to Support the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel – International
> 
> 
> April, 2013 – General Membership of Association for Asian American Studies votes to support academic boycott of Israel
> 
> 
> September, 2012 – Prominent academic Judith Butler reaffirms support for BDS
> 
> 
> May 4, 2012 – Columbia University Prof. Franke boycotts conference with “featured nation” Israel & Israeli Ambassador keynote speech
> 
> 
> November, 2009 – Prominent intellectual Sarah Schulman boycotts Lesbian & Gay Studies conference at Tel Aviv
> 
> 
> Faith-Based Actions
> 
> January 19, 2017 – Majilis Ash-Shura / Islamic Leadership Council of New York endorse BDS – New York, New York
> 
> 
> December 10, 2016 – Pax Christi International endorses BDS – International
> 
> 
> August 13, 2016 – Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Overwhelmingly Passes Investment Screen
> 
> 
> August 13, 2016 – Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Votes 82% Against Unconditional U.S. Aid to Israel
> 
> 
> April 10, 2016 – Alliance of Baptists Divests from Companies Profiting from Israel’s Occupation of Palestinian Land
> 
> 
> April 7, 2016 – Unitarian Universalists Divest from Companies Profiting from Israel’s Occupation
> 
> 
> March 30, 2016 – Catholic Conference of Major Superiors of Men Calls for Boycott of Illegal Settlements
> 
> 
> January, 2016 – United Methodist Church Excludes Top 5 Israeli Banks for Involvement in Illegal Settlements
> 
> 
> December 2015 – United Methodist Church declares Israeli company Elbit Systems, long excluded for weapons production, also ineligible for investment due to involvement in human rights violations
> 
> 
> June 30, 2015 – United Church of Christ General Synod votes overwhelmingly to boycott and divest from Israeli occupation
> 
> 
> June, 2015 – National Council of Fellowship of Reconciliation Unanimously Endorses BDS
> 
> 
> July 31, 2014 – No Más Muertes endorses Palestinian call for BDS
> 
> 
> June 20, 2014 – Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly divests from companies involved in Israeli occupation
> 
> 
> June 12, 2014 – United Methodist Church divests from G4S in response to role in Israeli prisons
> 
> 
> Winter 2013/2014 – United Methodist Church General Board of Church and Society Boycotts Sodastream
> 
> 
> March 16, 2013 – Mennonite Central Committee unanimously adopts AFSC 29-company no-buy list for divestment
> 
> 
> 18 Victories spanning 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 – 18 Quaker Meetings Across 15 States Endorse Boycott, Divestment, and, in some cases, Both
> 
> 
> September, 2012 – Quaker Friends Fiduciary Corporation divests from HP, Veolia
> 
> 
> July, 2012 – Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly votes to boycott settlement products
> 
> 
> May, 2012 – United Methodist Church General Conference votes to boycott settlement products
> 
> 
> May, 2012 – Quaker Friends Fiduciary Corporation divests from Caterpillar
> 
> 
> June, 2010 – Presbyterian Church (USA) General Assembly calls for U.S. Government to place sanctions on military assistance to Israel
> 
> 
> March 8, 2008 – American Friends Service Committee approves Israel-Palestine Investment Screen
> 
> 
> October 21, 2007 – National Coalition of American Nuns Publicly Urges Boycott of Caterpillar
> 
> 
> Summer, 2005 – United Church of Christ General Synod calls for the use of Economic Leverage — including ending military aid and divestment — to promote peace in Middle East
> 
> 
> Dozens of Victories spanning 2005 – 2015 – 18 United Methodist Church Annual Conferences — representing thousands of churches and hundreds of thousands of members — adopt 30 resolutions and statements calling for divestment; several divest their own conference funds
> 
> 
> Pensions & Other Investment Funds
> 
> (Not otherwise listed above)
> 
> 
> August 3, 2014 – Soros Fund Management drops SodaStream
> 
> 
> June 6, 2014 – Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation divests from G4S
> 
> 
> Between July and November, 2013 – Pension giant TIAA-CREF divests Social Choice fund from Veolia
> 
> 
> Between March and August, 2013 – TIAA-CREF divests from SodaStream
> 
> 
> July, 2012 – Abigail Disney renounces shares of Ahava
> 
> 
> June, 2012 – Morgan Stanley Capital International removes Caterpillar from socially responsible companies list
> 
> 
> May/June, 2012 – Pension giant TIAA-CREF divests Social Choice fund from Caterpillar
> 
> 
> September 12, 2009 – TIAA-CREF divests from Africa-Israel company due to violations of “human rights and international law”
> 
> 
> Boycotting & De-Shelving Israeli Products
> 
> (Many more listed above in other sections)
> 
> 
> April 21, 2014 – Earth Day Network cuts ties with Sodastream
> 
> 
> July, 2014 – Cambridge fixture Pemberton Farms stops selling Sabra following Boston BDS campaign – Cambridge, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> 2014 – Balady Foods deshelves Sabra hummus – Brooklyn, New York
> 
> 
> January 24, 2014 – KQED Public Radio Pulls SodaStream from Gifts to Donors – Bay Area, California
> 
> 
> January, 2014 – Hollywood Star Scarlett Johansson resigns as Oxfam International Global Ambassador due to deal with Sodastream
> 
> 
> December, 2013 – Harvest Coop deshelves Sabra following boycott Boston BDS campaign – Cambridge and Boston, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> January, 2012 – Lincoln-Way High School deshelves Sabra hummus – Chicago, Illinois
> 
> 
> March, 2011 – National Cathedral gift store affiliated with Episcopal Church removes Ahava products after complaints from patrons – Washington, DC
> 
> 
> July 15, 2010 – Olympia Food Co-op removes Israeli goods from shelves; first US store to institute boycott – Olympia, Washington
> 
> 
> January 18, 2010 – Costco stops selling Ahava
> 
> 
> Municipal & State Victories
> 
> April 6, 2017 – Portland City Council Permanently Halts All Investments in Private Corporations Following Historic Campaign – Portland, Oregon
> 
> 
> December 21, 2016 – In Historic Vote, City of Portland Votes to Temporarily Cease Investments in All Corporate Securities Including Occupation Profiteer Caterpillar and Prison Profiteer Wells Fargo – Portland, Oregon
> 
> 
> July 19, 2016 – City of Berkeley divests from G4S – Berkeley, CA
> 
> 
> Spring 2016 – Denver Water Board Drops G4S Following BDS Campaign – Denver, CO
> 
> 
> March 17, 2016 – Portland’s Socially Responsible Investment Committee Recommends City Boycott of Caterpillar – Portland, OR
> 
> 
> January 2016 – Delaware Neighbors Against the Occupation Defeats Anti-BDS Bill – New Castle County, DE
> 
> 
> October 12, 2015 – Portland Human Rights Commission Unanimously Endorses Placing 4 Companies on No-Buy List, First Step Towards Becoming Occupation Free City – Portland, Oregon
> 
> 
> April, 2015 – Oregon Dept of Justice Mandates that SodaStream Change Misleading Product Labels – Portland, Oregon
> 
> 
> December 3, 2014 – Baltimore Rejects Veolia following coalition campaign – Baltimore, Maryland
> 
> 
> November, 2014 – Durham severs ties with G4S – Durham, North Carolina
> 
> 
> January 8, 2014 – Veolia loses Massachusetts commuter rail contract – Boston, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> October 29, 2013 – St. Louis Dumps Veolia – St. Louis, Missouri
> 
> 
> January, 2013 – Veolia Withdraws from California Water Contract Bidding -Yolo County (Woodland and Davis), California
> 
> 
> Corporate Announcements
> 
> (Not listed elsewhere)
> 
> 
> December 2, 2016 – Following years of BDS campaigns, G4S ends most illegal business in Israel, sells most Israel business – International
> 
> 
> March 9, 2016 – Ahava Announces Factory Relocation Outside of Occupied West Bank
> 
> 
> August 28, 2015 – Veolia divests completely from Israeli market
> 
> 
> October 29, 2014 – SodaStream moves factory out of Palestinian West Bank
> 
> 
> Labor, Diplomatic, & Other
> 
> August 1, 2016 – Movement for Black Lives Platform Calls for BDS
> 
> 
> June 6, 2016 – Green Party Candidate for President Endorses BDS
> 
> 
> April 22, 2016 – New York University Graduate Employee Union Becomes First Private University Labor Union to Support Full BDS – New York, NY
> 
> 
> April 14, 2016 – UMass Amherst Graduate Employee Union (UAW) Overwhelmingly Endorses BDS – Amherst, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> October 22, 2015 – Connecticut AFL-CIO Convention Calls on National Federation to Adopt BDS – Connecticut
> 
> 
> August 16-20, 2015 – United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers (UE) Becomes First National Union in U.S. to Endorse BDS
> 
> 
> August, 2015 – Over 1,000 Black activists, artists, scholars, students and organizations sign Black Solidarity Statement with Palestine, endorsing BDS
> 
> 
> March 3, 2015 – 60 U.S. elected officials publicly #SkiptheSpeech by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, effectively boycotting him
> 
> 
> December 10, 2014 – Members of University of California Graduate Student-Worker’s Union UAW 2865 ratify resolution to join BDS movement – State of California
> 
> 
> November, 2014 – Dream Defenders endorse BDS at National Conference
> 
> 
> Fall, 2014 – West Coast “Block the Boat” Port Actions Prevent Zim Lines from Docking – West Coast
> 
> 
> July 7, 2010 – California International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) Local 10 Branch refuses to unload Israeli cargo ship – Oakland, California
> 
> 
> October, 2008 – Oxfam International publicly denounces donor Lev Leviev due to support for Israeli settlements
> 
> 
> June 21, 2008 – UNICEF severs ties with Israeli mogul Lev Leviev over settlement building
> 
> 
> November 28, 2005 – Greens, Calling for Palestinian Rights, Urge Divestment from Israel*
> 
> *UPDATED: List of 200+ U.S. BDS Victories! - US Campaign for Palestinian Rights*
Click to expand...


And to that Sheikh Jaabri said:

_"These people - we've realized that the damage they cause is much greater than the benefit. And every place they go they cause friction, and cause us social and financial damage._* I insist that they leave; that they allow us - the Arabs and Jews to settle our difference on our own"

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Tensions Rise Over Mural in Arab Bakery*

*A painting of Rasmeah Odeh is causing controversy in Oakland







*
Whether intentional or not, Reem’s prominent mural depicting Rasmea Odeh is a shot fired. Odeh is a Palestinian activist who was convicted by the Israeli government in 1970 for her connection to a 1969 grocery store bombing in Jerusalem that killed two university students.

The bakery’s positive depiction of her has spawned a controversy as summarized in this sharply worded op-ed in J., the Jewish News of Northern California. In the piece, venture capitalist Daniel Frankenstein criticized Assil’s decision to feature a mural of Odeh. A series of coordinated Yelp attacks followed, in which users claimed there was blood in the bakery’s dough and an open endorsements of terrorism on the walls.

To her supporters, Odeh’s confession is another symbol of oppression — a forced admission of guilt made after she allegedly suffered 45 days of torture and interrogation in the weeks after her arrest. The life sentence she received in Israel was eventually cut short 10 years later, when she was freed as part of a prisoner exchange with the U.S. in 1979. Upon her release, Odeh testified before a U.N. special committee that she was tortured, beaten, and sexually abused at the hands of her Israeli interrogators. Her father told the U.N. that he witnessed some of the torture.

Updated: Tensions Rise Over Mural in Arab Bakery


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Tensions Rise Over Mural in Arab Bakery*
> 
> *A painting of Rasmeah Odeh is causing controversy in Oakland*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Whether intentional or not, Reem’s prominent mural depicting Rasmea Odeh is a shot fired. Odeh is a Palestinian activist who was convicted by the Israeli government in 1970 for her connection to a 1969 grocery store bombing in Jerusalem that killed two university students.
> 
> The bakery’s positive depiction of her has spawned a controversy as summarized in this sharply worded op-ed in J., the Jewish News of Northern California. In the piece, venture capitalist Daniel Frankenstein criticized Assil’s decision to feature a mural of Odeh. A series of coordinated Yelp attacks followed, in which users claimed there was blood in the bakery’s dough and an open endorsements of terrorism on the walls.
> 
> To her supporters, Odeh’s confession is another symbol of oppression — a forced admission of guilt made after she allegedly suffered 45 days of torture and interrogation in the weeks after her arrest. The life sentence she received in Israel was eventually cut short 10 years later, when she was freed as part of a prisoner exchange with the U.S. in 1979. Upon her release, Odeh testified before a U.N. special committee that she was tortured, beaten, and sexually abused at the hands of her Israeli interrogators. Her father told the U.N. that he witnessed some of the torture.
> 
> Updated: Tensions Rise Over Mural in Arab Bakery



Who is surprised that Arabs would celebrate a mass murderer?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tensions Rise Over Mural in Arab Bakery*
> 
> *A painting of Rasmeah Odeh is causing controversy in Oakland*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Whether intentional or not, Reem’s prominent mural depicting Rasmea Odeh is a shot fired. Odeh is a Palestinian activist who was convicted by the Israeli government in 1970 for her connection to a 1969 grocery store bombing in Jerusalem that killed two university students.
> 
> The bakery’s positive depiction of her has spawned a controversy as summarized in this sharply worded op-ed in J., the Jewish News of Northern California. In the piece, venture capitalist Daniel Frankenstein criticized Assil’s decision to feature a mural of Odeh. A series of coordinated Yelp attacks followed, in which users claimed there was blood in the bakery’s dough and an open endorsements of terrorism on the walls.
> 
> To her supporters, Odeh’s confession is another symbol of oppression — a forced admission of guilt made after she allegedly suffered 45 days of torture and interrogation in the weeks after her arrest. The life sentence she received in Israel was eventually cut short 10 years later, when she was freed as part of a prisoner exchange with the U.S. in 1979. Upon her release, Odeh testified before a U.N. special committee that she was tortured, beaten, and sexually abused at the hands of her Israeli interrogators. Her father told the U.N. that he witnessed some of the torture.
> 
> Updated: Tensions Rise Over Mural in Arab Bakery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is surprised that Arabs would celebrate a mass murderer?
Click to expand...

Says the guy who cheers when Israel kills thousands of Palestinians.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:
> 
> Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:
Click to expand...


Now Rylah is on another propaganda tack. He now wants everyone to believe that Palestinians, who are Levantines, are members of Arabian tribes.  Must be orders from the Hasbara as the old propaganda doesn't work anymore.  Familial clans are not tribes ,you idiot. The Levis aren't a tribe.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:
> 
> Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now Rylah is on another propaganda tack. He now wants everyone to believe that Palestinians, who are Levantines, are members of Arabian tribes.  Must be orders from the Hasbara as the old propaganda doesn't work anymore.  Familial clans are not tribes ,you idiot. The Levis aren't a tribe.
Click to expand...


The Levis ARE NOT A TRIBE.

Geesh, what could have happened?

Were they thrown out of Jacob's Family?
Disinherited?
What could possibly have been their crime?


DO TELL !!!!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:
> 
> Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now Rylah is on another propaganda tack. He now wants everyone to believe that Palestinians, who are Levantines, are members of Arabian tribes.  Must be orders from the Hasbara as the old propaganda doesn't work anymore.  Familial clans are not tribes ,you idiot. The Levis aren't a tribe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Levis ARE NOT A TRIBE.
> 
> Geesh, what could have happened?
> 
> Were they thrown out of Jacob's Family?
> Disinherited?
> What could possibly have been their crime?
> 
> 
> DO TELL !!!!
Click to expand...

 
Maybe he's talking about Levi's blue jeans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:
> 
> Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now Rylah is on another propaganda tack. He now wants everyone to believe that Palestinians, who are Levantines, are members of Arabian tribes.  Must be orders from the Hasbara as the old propaganda doesn't work anymore.  Familial clans are not tribes ,you idiot. The Levis aren't a tribe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Levis ARE NOT A TRIBE.
> 
> Geesh, what could have happened?
> 
> Were they thrown out of Jacob's Family?
> Disinherited?
> What could possibly have been their crime?
> 
> 
> DO TELL !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe he's talking about Levi's blue jeans.
Click to expand...


Even THAT Levi came from the Levi Tribe.

Did he not?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:
> 
> Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now Rylah is on another propaganda tack. He now wants everyone to believe that Palestinians, who are Levantines, are members of Arabian tribes.  Must be orders from the Hasbara as the old propaganda doesn't work anymore.  Familial clans are not tribes ,you idiot. The Levis aren't a tribe.
Click to expand...


Well Palestinians themselves identify with Arabian tribes, have tribal clans as an authority higher than the govt. just like anywhere in Arabia.
The majority of their elected leaders are of Arabian tribes, while the major cities are still ruled by specific tribal clans.

Lebanon for example has a majority of Arabians. You can't run away from the obvious.

Nobody pulled this Hamas member by the tongue to say what  he said at 1:44:


*The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*

SUMMARY 
The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDS is organized mainly by the Barghouti tribe. Palestinians have some 6-7 main tribal clans each ruling the area in and around major cities, not one tribe speaks for the other:
> 
> Here's the Sheikh of the al-Jaabri tribe that rules Hebron:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now Rylah is on another propaganda tack. He now wants everyone to believe that Palestinians, who are Levantines, are members of Arabian tribes.  Must be orders from the Hasbara as the old propaganda doesn't work anymore.  Familial clans are not tribes ,you idiot. The Levis aren't a tribe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Palestinians themselves identify with Arabian tribes, have tribal clans as an authority higher than the govt. just like anywhere in Arabia.
> The majority of their elected leaders are of Arabian tribes, while the major cities are still ruled by specific tribal clans.
> 
> Lebanon for example has a majority of Arabians. You can't run away from the obvious.
> 
> Nobody pulled this Hamas member by the tongue to say what  he said at 1:44:
> 
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> SUMMARY
> The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.
Click to expand...


So, according to this video, half the Palestinians are Egyptian and the other half are from Arabia.  Interesting.  That would mean they're not indigenous to Palestine!  (I had heard about this video and was looking for it.)  Thanx.


----------



## montelatici

That is truly a reliable historically accurate video from a an authoritative historian. LOL

*"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*

*Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> That is truly a reliable historically accurate video from a an authoritative historian. LOL
> 
> *"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"*
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted*



The problem with Your narrative is that You don't read beyond the headlines

From the same book:

p. 245:

_"The only plausible answer is that at least the reminder of roughly *82,000 of the Muslim-Arabic *speaking 'settled' population *in Palestine in 1895 had to be immigrants and in-migrants whose arrival coincided exactly with the time Jewish development commenced . *" _

p. 256:

_"In other words, *by the most conservative calculation, 170,000 Arab in-migrants* were never recorded by the government, were never figured into the political equations. *And yet the had moved in*."_

From time immemorial


----------



## rylah

And the from the same link You've presented:

Palestine inhabited by a mixed population

_From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1 * Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars.*

John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all  the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2

*Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine. By the mid-seventeenth century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about twenty percent of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3 *
 Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some five hundred houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4....
_


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab-Palestinian Leader Anwar Nusseibeh was no friend of Israel, but in the documentary Pillar of Fire (which I posted about yesterday here), he admitted that right after World War I, there was no separate “palestinian” identity – they were just part of Syria.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **



And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
Click to expand...


Arabs, telling the indigenous people of the lands, Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc that they have NO RIGHTS TO THEIR Indigenous ancient lands.

Imagine that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UK government approves largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe*

The largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe has been given the green light by the UK Government after fears it would be shut down.

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG), the body responsible for the event venue, wrote a letter of warning to the organisers on behalf of the Secretary of State, Sajid Javid, on June 14.

The letter expressed “concerns that your organisation and those connected with it have expressed public support for a proscribed organisation, namely Hamas, and that you have supported events at which Hamas and Hezbollah – also proscribed – have been praised”.

The letter added that Javid was considering terminating the contract with organisers Friends of Al-Aqsa for the use of the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in Westminster on July 8/9 2017.

Nonetheless, Jewish News reported on Tuesday 27 June that the DCLG stated, “We have worked with the QEII Centre to carry out checks following concerns raised about the Palestine Expo 2017. Following these checks, we have agreed the event can take place as planned.”

The UK Government approved the event less than a week after losing a legal battle to the Palestine Solidarity (PSC) campaign for their attempts to stifle peaceful protest of Israel’s policies towards Palestine.

UK government approves largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
Click to expand...


It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.

It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.

Anwar Nusseibeh was the minister of public affairs, this is what he said (0:31) -


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
Click to expand...

Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.

So, do you have a point?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.
> 
> So, do you have a point?
Click to expand...


Didn't the Jews and Arabs become officially Palestinians in 1924?
And anyway Israel is the govt of all Israelis and had an effective control, the Palestinian protectorate  had only a symbolic meaning and jurisdiction.

Remind You Jews were a minority, but were effective, the Arabs were a majority and were still short of forming any effective government of their own. All their political moves were based on denial of others, they were NOT interested in self rule, as much as to go back into a big Arab colony, because the actually never governed themselves on that land. They were yarning to remain Syrians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.
> 
> So, do you have a point?
Click to expand...


Obviously, you're fine with muhammedan invaders / colonists who conquered the area. Your insensate Joooo hatreds is what causes you such angst. 

Jihad is an obligation. Obviously you're not willing to meet that obligation.

So what's your point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *UK government approves largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe*
> 
> The largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe has been given the green light by the UK Government after fears it would be shut down.
> 
> The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG), the body responsible for the event venue, wrote a letter of warning to the organisers on behalf of the Secretary of State, Sajid Javid, on June 14.
> 
> The letter expressed “concerns that your organisation and those connected with it have expressed public support for a proscribed organisation, namely Hamas, and that you have supported events at which Hamas and Hezbollah – also proscribed – have been praised”.
> 
> The letter added that Javid was considering terminating the contract with organisers Friends of Al-Aqsa for the use of the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in Westminster on July 8/9 2017.
> 
> Nonetheless, Jewish News reported on Tuesday 27 June that the DCLG stated, “We have worked with the QEII Centre to carry out checks following concerns raised about the Palestine Expo 2017. Following these checks, we have agreed the event can take place as planned.”
> 
> The UK Government approved the event less than a week after losing a legal battle to the Palestine Solidarity (PSC) campaign for their attempts to stifle peaceful protest of Israel’s policies towards Palestine.
> 
> UK government approves largest Palestinian cultural event in Europe



Ya' just have to hope that Arabs-Moslems don't start spontaneously a'splodin. 

Arab-Moslem "cultural" event. What's that, a celebration of retrogression by the Death Cult?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Salman Abu Sitta Keynote *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.
> 
> So, do you have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't the Jews and Arabs become officially Palestinians in 1924?
> And anyway Israel is the govt of all Israelis and had an effective control, the Palestinian protectorate  had only a symbolic meaning and jurisdiction.
> 
> Remind You Jews were a minority, but were effective, the Arabs were a majority and were still short of forming any effective government of their own. All their political moves were based on denial of others, they were NOT interested in self rule, as much as to go back into a big Arab colony, because the actually never governed themselves on that land. They were yarning to remain Syrians.
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you have?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And still, amazingly, no Arab living outside of Israel proper EVER claimed a RIGHT OF RETURN , or a Palestinian identity or Nationality, before 1964 when Arafat and the KGB created that nationality in order to have one more thing to try to destroy sovereign Israel with, just as the Arabs had tried to do after 1948 when they expelled nearly One Million Jews from Arab CONQUERED  lands.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.
> 
> So, do you have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't the Jews and Arabs become officially Palestinians in 1924?
> And anyway Israel is the govt of all Israelis and had an effective control, the Palestinian protectorate  had only a symbolic meaning and jurisdiction.
> 
> Remind You Jews were a minority, but were effective, the Arabs were a majority and were still short of forming any effective government of their own. All their political moves were based on denial of others, they were NOT interested in self rule, as much as to go back into a big Arab colony, because the actually never governed themselves on that land. They were yarning to remain Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you have?
Click to expand...


You wanted to play the game of 'find the Palestinian'.

I gave You an explanation of that declaration, and its' implications on the definition of 'Palestinian', from the minister of that govt.

You can sell the Egyptian client state as the origin of Palestinian nationalism, but no matter what cover they used it was all Pan-Arabism, and an independent Palestine isn't a part of it:


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Please explain the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.
> 
> So, do you have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't the Jews and Arabs become officially Palestinians in 1924?
> And anyway Israel is the govt of all Israelis and had an effective control, the Palestinian protectorate  had only a symbolic meaning and jurisdiction.
> 
> Remind You Jews were a minority, but were effective, the Arabs were a majority and were still short of forming any effective government of their own. All their political moves were based on denial of others, they were NOT interested in self rule, as much as to go back into a big Arab colony, because the actually never governed themselves on that land. They were yarning to remain Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wanted to play the game of 'find the Palestinian'.
> 
> I gave You an explanation of that declaration, and its' implications on the definition of 'Palestinian', from the minister of that govt.
> 
> You can sell the Egyptian client state as the origin of Palestinian nationalism, but no matter what cover they used it was all Pan-Arabism, and an independent Palestine isn't a part of it:
Click to expand...

I don't think they ever withdrew their declaration of independence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers.



So, when discussing the right of return for the Arabs, we get to call them "foreign settlers", right?  Because they weren't born in Israel, right?  Just foreign settlers.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a client state of Egypt, governed by 12 ministers of different Arab countries, including former Ottoman officer, a Lebanese minister and much of the al-Hussaini clan. This puppet  govt, although had only limited effective jurisdiction only in Gaza (using the Mandate laws), proclaimed independence over all of Palestine, months after the Israeli proclamation.
> Its' armed force was called *The Holy War Army*.
> 
> It was dismantled by Egypt, in favor of Nasser's imperialist ambitions to unite Syria and Egypt, however from its' inception it was a tool in the hands of the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers. Israel is a foreign government in Palestine.
> 
> So, do you have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't the Jews and Arabs become officially Palestinians in 1924?
> And anyway Israel is the govt of all Israelis and had an effective control, the Palestinian protectorate  had only a symbolic meaning and jurisdiction.
> 
> Remind You Jews were a minority, but were effective, the Arabs were a majority and were still short of forming any effective government of their own. All their political moves were based on denial of others, they were NOT interested in self rule, as much as to go back into a big Arab colony, because the actually never governed themselves on that land. They were yarning to remain Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wanted to play the game of 'find the Palestinian'.
> 
> I gave You an explanation of that declaration, and its' implications on the definition of 'Palestinian', from the minister of that govt.
> 
> You can sell the Egyptian client state as the origin of Palestinian nationalism, but no matter what cover they used it was all Pan-Arabism, and an independent Palestine isn't a part of it:
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think they ever withdrew their declaration of independence.
Click to expand...


We are actually talking about a body that had no effective control of any significance, neither self-rule. They could be equally successful or correct in declaring independence over the whole of Europe.


----------



## rylah

In other words, if the people in who's name You declare independence still identify as Syrians on a national level, there's not much sense in declaring them as_ 'independent Palestinians'_, it's just dissonance...and badly used paper.


----------



## montelatici

Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian. 
Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214



So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.

You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
Click to expand...


The Third Palestine Congress called for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon - Hussein agreement.  





The map  shows that Palestine was in the area promised to Hussein by McMahon. Only Lebanon and part of current Syria to the North were excluded.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of foreign settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, when discussing the right of return for the Arabs, we get to call them "foreign settlers", right?  Because they weren't born in Israel, right?  Just foreign settlers.
Click to expand...

Could you translate that post to English please?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
Click to expand...

OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Third Palestine Congress called for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon - Hussein agreement.
> 
> View attachment 136217
> 
> The map  shows that Palestine was in the area promised to Hussein by McMahon. Only Lebanon and part of current Syria to the North were excluded.
Click to expand...


Oh, my. Someone broke a promise.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.
Click to expand...


OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination. 

How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination.
> 
> How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.
Click to expand...

You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
--------------
The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​


----------



## Shusha

But that did not create a sovereign nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> But that did not create a sovereign nation.


It doesn't have to. The people are the sovereigns.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination.
> 
> How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
Click to expand...


Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.

You are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third Palestinian Congress, 1920. It says Palestinian, not Syrian.
> Arabic reads: "Palestine is the cradle of Jesus"; "Preserve al-Aqsa Mosque"; "Palestine is Arab."
> View attachment 136214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination.
> 
> How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.
> 
> You are a hoot.
Click to expand...

You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the declaration by the same congress, just a year prior to that was nonexistent?
> They clearly said it then in 1919, in the 1st congress and the people they represent today still identify with that.
> 
> You should read carefully what they declared in the 3rd congress, it wasn't an independent Palestine, but a fusion of the area into a bigger Arab colony.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination.
> 
> How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.
Click to expand...


Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:

The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but Palestine's international borders were not set until 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination.
> 
> How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:
> 
> The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
Click to expand...

It seems that it went over your head before.

I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, that must be your invented "country of Pally'land". The country that exists only in your imagination.
> 
> How interesting. Yassir Arafat invented the "Pal'istanians" in the late 1960's.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:
> 
> The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems that it went over your head before.
> 
> I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?
Click to expand...


It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web. 

Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination. 

You need some magic slippers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:
> 
> The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems that it went over your head before.
> 
> I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web.
> 
> Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination.
> 
> You need some magic slippers.
Click to expand...

Debunked? You say it but never prove it.

Where is your proof?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. That is same sentence you cut and paste in the hope to represent that your invented "country of Pally'land" was something more than it was.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:
> 
> The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems that it went over your head before.
> 
> I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web.
> 
> Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination.
> 
> You need some magic slippers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked? You say it but never prove it.
> 
> Where is your proof?
Click to expand...


What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really need to get off of that Israeli bullshit.
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which *affirm the right of the Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Notice that it says Palestinian people in Palestine, not government or state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:
> 
> The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems that it went over your head before.
> 
> I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web.
> 
> Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination.
> 
> You need some magic slippers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked? You say it but never prove it.
> 
> Where is your proof?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".
Click to expand...

You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.

It is up to you to prove your point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual tactic of spamming threads with cutting and pasting to promote your invented "country of Pally'land" are best dumped here:
> 
> The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that it went over your head before.
> 
> I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web.
> 
> Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination.
> 
> You need some magic slippers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked? You say it but never prove it.
> 
> Where is your proof?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> It is up to you to prove your point.
Click to expand...


My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that it went over your head before.
> 
> I post actual documents and you keep coming back with the same old Israeli bullshit. Why do you always do that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web.
> 
> Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination.
> 
> You need some magic slippers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked? You say it but never prove it.
> 
> Where is your proof?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> It is up to you to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.
Click to expand...

The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*

The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
So, what do you have besides deflection?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you're just cutting and pasting the same debunked snippets of articles you scour from the web.
> 
> Odd, don't you think, but your fantasies notwithstanding, the invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ exists only in your imagination.
> 
> You need some magic slippers.
> 
> 
> 
> Debunked? You say it but never prove it.
> 
> Where is your proof?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> It is up to you to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*
> 
> The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
> So, what do you have besides deflection?
Click to expand...


Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.

Is nonsense all you have?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Debunked? You say it but never prove it.
> 
> Where is your proof?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> It is up to you to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*
> 
> The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
> So, what do you have besides deflection?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.
> 
> Is nonsense all you have?
Click to expand...

Grasping at straws.

Both the US and the International Court (and others) recognized Palestine as a state.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it that you expect me to prove? Your claim is the existence of some imagined "country of Pal'istan".
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> It is up to you to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*
> 
> The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
> So, what do you have besides deflection?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.
> 
> Is nonsense all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Both the US and the International Court (and others) recognized Palestine as a state.
Click to expand...


You're grasping at korans.

Maybe you can show us where and how your claimed "recognition" applies statehood. Which Islamic terrorist enclave (Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan), was granted statehood?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one making all the unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> It is up to you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*
> 
> The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
> So, what do you have besides deflection?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.
> 
> Is nonsense all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Both the US and the International Court (and others) recognized Palestine as a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're grasping at korans.
> 
> Maybe you can show us where and how your claimed "recognition" applies statehood. Which Islamic terrorist enclave (Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan), was granted statehood?
Click to expand...

You are starting to dance again.

Why don't you take a deep breath, calm down, and address my posts?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that you are making the positive claim to some imagined _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land. _It is not up to me to prove such a place ever existed.
> 
> 
> 
> The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*
> 
> The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
> So, what do you have besides deflection?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.
> 
> Is nonsense all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Both the US and the International Court (and others) recognized Palestine as a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're grasping at korans.
> 
> Maybe you can show us where and how your claimed "recognition" applies statehood. Which Islamic terrorist enclave (Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan), was granted statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are starting to dance again.
> 
> Why don't you take a deep breath, calm down, and address my posts?
Click to expand...


I addressed your post, Louie888, jr.  Why don't you address how the Great Satan "recognizing" the area known as "Pal'istan" confers statehood? Was the State Department in 1932 tasked with conferring statehood? I wasn't aware of that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that *the United States considered that Palestine was a state.*
> 
> The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because *the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state* that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil​
> So, what do you have besides deflection?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.
> 
> Is nonsense all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Both the US and the International Court (and others) recognized Palestine as a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're grasping at korans.
> 
> Maybe you can show us where and how your claimed "recognition" applies statehood. Which Islamic terrorist enclave (Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan), was granted statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are starting to dance again.
> 
> Why don't you take a deep breath, calm down, and address my posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I addressed your post, Louie888, jr.  Why don't you address how the Great Satan "recognizing" the area known as "Pal'istan" confers statehood? Was the State Department in 1932 tasked with conferring statehood? I wasn't aware of that.
Click to expand...

Whether a state exists is a matter of law. Recognition of a state is a matter of politics.

Legally, Palestine has been a state since 1924. It was generally recognized as such by courts and other countries until the creation of Israel when there was a shift in politics. Israel held the dominant narrative until the last decade or two. Now that narrative is beginning to shift. Zionists are wringing their hands over the "delegitimization" of Israel that exists in Palestinian territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I see. So, in 1932 the Great Satan considered your _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land_ a "state". I wasn't aware that the Great Satan ™ was tasked with granting statehood.
> 
> Is nonsense all you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Both the US and the International Court (and others) recognized Palestine as a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're grasping at korans.
> 
> Maybe you can show us where and how your claimed "recognition" applies statehood. Which Islamic terrorist enclave (Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan), was granted statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are starting to dance again.
> 
> Why don't you take a deep breath, calm down, and address my posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I addressed your post, Louie888, jr.  Why don't you address how the Great Satan "recognizing" the area known as "Pal'istan" confers statehood? Was the State Department in 1932 tasked with conferring statehood? I wasn't aware of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether a state exists is a matter of law. Recognition of a state is a matter of politics.
> 
> Legally, Palestine has been a state since 1924. It was generally recognized as such by courts and other countries until the creation of Israel when there was a shift in politics. Israel held the dominant narrative until the last decade or two. Now that narrative is beginning to shift. Zionists are wringing their hands over the "delegitimization" of Israel that exists in Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


".... because I say so", is hardly a compelling argument.

"....generally recognized..." is hardly a compelling reason to accept your "..,because I say so" argument for assigning statehood to your invented "country of Pally'land".

There are many reasons why your legal opinions on civil and international law are met with 360 degree eye-rolls.


----------



## Hollie

Why yes, the narrative is beginning to shift.



Why donor countries are giving less to the Palestinians

Read more: Why donor countries are giving less to the Palestinians


Declining international support to the PA coincided with reduced international interest in the Palestinian cause, as international decision-makers grew more concerned about other issues such as Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and the influx of hundreds of thousands of Syrian and Iraqi refugees to European countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

D


Hollie said:


> Why yes, the narrative is beginning to shift.
> 
> 
> 
> Why donor countries are giving less to the Palestinians
> 
> Read more: Why donor countries are giving less to the Palestinians
> 
> 
> Declining international support to the PA coincided with reduced international interest in the Palestinian cause, as international decision-makers grew more concerned about other issues such as Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and the influx of hundreds of thousands of Syrian and Iraqi refugees to European countries.


Don't confuse the PA with the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Jennifer Jajeh, and Her one woman show I Heart Hamas *

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Don't confuse the PA with the Palestinians.



Exactly. Don't confuse the Palestinians as a people with some fictional State or with an ineffective and corrupt quasi-government. (Or two). 

The former deserve acknowledgement and respect. But they have not yet been able to develop into a functioning State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't confuse the PA with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Don't confuse the Palestinians as a people with some fictional State or with an ineffective and corrupt quasi-government. (Or two).
> 
> The former deserve acknowledgement and respect. But they have not yet been able to develop into a functioning State.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, not another slime post. What did this add to the discussion?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Oh jeese, not another slime post. What did this add to the discussion?



You've said you are not fond of either the PA or Hamas.  You've said they don't represent the Palestinian people.  

This conflict is not going to get solved until the Palestinian people develop into something other than victims who send their young people out stabbing random Jews or lobbing ineffectual rockets at Israeli towns.  They need to be something more than that.  They need a plan.  They need a proper, representative government (likely two).  They need to move their resources to building and not to destroying.  They need to stop doing stupid ass things like denying fellow Palestinians access to simple things like electricity, medical care, clean water.  They need to start acting, on the world stage, like they are a State and not a couple of terrorist groups acting like whining children.


----------



## fanger

*Why Are Countless Palestinian Photos and Films Buried in Israeli Archives?*
*Palestinian photos and films seized by Israeli troops have been gathering dust in the army and Defense Ministry archives until Dr. Rona Sela, a curator and art historian, exposed them. The material presents an alternative to the Zionist history that denied the Palestinians’ existence here, she says

Why are countless Palestinian photos and films buried in Israeli archives?
*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem welfare thieves?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian artist Noel Kharman


----------



## Hollie

The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program


Allow the Palestinians the right to go home.

Poof, no more UNWRA!

This isn't rocket science, folks. Duh


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allow the Palestinians the right to go home.
> 
> Poof, no more UNWRA!
> 
> This isn't rocket science, folks. Duh
Click to expand...


Or to get compensation, and to build up their lives and be productive wherever they happen to live.  Many creative solutions can be found.  It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allow the Palestinians the right to go home.
> 
> Poof, no more UNWRA!
> 
> This isn't rocket science, folks. Duh
Click to expand...

Egypt, Jordan and Syria won't accept the political and financial liability of their former citizens. 

Poof, just your usual ignorance of history.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allow the Palestinians the right to go home.
> 
> Poof, no more UNWRA!
> 
> This isn't rocket science, folks. Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or to get compensation, and to build up their lives and be productive wherever they happen to live.  Many creative solutions can be found.  It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.
Click to expand...

The UNWRA is only allowed to deliver aid. The UNCCP is charged with durable solutions based on resolution 194 and international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allow the Palestinians the right to go home.
> 
> Poof, no more UNWRA!
> 
> This isn't rocket science, folks. Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria won't accept the political and financial liability of their former citizens.
> 
> Poof, just your usual ignorance of history.
Click to expand...

Does Israel feed you this shit or do you make it up yourself?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist maintenance program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allow the Palestinians the right to go home.
> 
> Poof, no more UNWRA!
> 
> This isn't rocket science, folks. Duh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria won't accept the political and financial liability of their former citizens.
> 
> Poof, just your usual ignorance of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does Israel feed you this shit or do you make it up yourself?
Click to expand...

Such an angry muhammedan. Being reality challenged is something of a syndrome for you.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Zena Agha*


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem welfare fraud.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> *Zena Agha*


How does it feel to be living in a revisionist reality?
Lord knows what you would be doing without the Internet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Arab-Moslem welfare fraud.


Ahhh, the ol' UNWRA boogyman.

UNWRA is an Israeli creation. Why don't they bitch to Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab-Moslem welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the ol' UNWRA boogyman.
> 
> UNWRA is an Israeli creation. Why don't they bitch to Israel?
Click to expand...


Always a handy conspiracy theory for the angry Jooo haters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab-Moslem welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the ol' UNWRA boogyman.
> 
> UNWRA is an Israeli creation. Why don't they bitch to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Always a handy conspiracy theory for the angry Jooo haters.
Click to expand...

Its true. No Israel. No UNWRA. You can't refute that.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab-Moslem welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the ol' UNWRA boogyman.
> 
> UNWRA is an Israeli creation. Why don't they bitch to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Always a handy conspiracy theory for the angry Jooo haters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. No Israel. No UNWRA. You can't refute that.
Click to expand...


Your silly conspiracies belong in a dedicated forum.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


>


Tinmore commits murder by boring his victims to death.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cult poetry.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

[All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]

Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.

As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.

In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.

(full article online)

Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite all her verbiage, Arraf does not, and cannot, dispute that (a) no one, including Issawi himself, has made the case that he was innocent of the charges; and (b) ISM didn’t just call him (and every other terrorist in Israeli jails) a political prisoner, and didn’t justprovide a forum for him on its website, *but called him a “freedom fighter.”*

Arraf purports to be outraged that I suggested that ISM considers Israeli students and professors legitimate targets, but the man ISM calls a freedom fighter, among other crimes, “fired at two students walking from the Hebrew University campus to their car in a nearby parking lot.”

(full article online)

Is the International Solidarity Movement “pro-terrorist”? A response to Huwaida Arraf


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers


WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
Click to expand...


Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.

Call it Hasbara.

Call it Propaganda.

You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
Click to expand...

2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.

2 Israelis killed = terrorism.

I can see what direction your propaganda is going.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.
> 
> 2 Israelis killed = terrorism.
> 
> I can see what direction your propaganda is going.
Click to expand...


You misunderstand. 2000 glorious martyrs were sacrificed at the altar of the Death Cult. It's truly remarkable that you believe the Death Cult can committ acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence. 

How lucky for you and your heroes in the Islamic Death Cult of Hamas. You can jointly parade those dead bodies around like a Death Cult trophy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.
> 
> 2 Israelis killed = terrorism.
> 
> I can see what direction your propaganda is going.
Click to expand...


No, you cannot.

You pull that number out of your trick hat.

Get the facts about who those Palestinians were, where they were, if they were armed or unarmed, how many of them give their lives for the Palestinian cause by not leaving the places where the AIF was going to attack, after warning them......etc....etc....etc

And the real number of "innocent" Palestinians who were killed in 2014 were ( that is the war you are talking about, right?  Where you got that out of the blue number? )

And yes, tin man, when Palestinians attack with cars, knives, screw drivers, rocks, molotov cocktails or explosives and KILL people, it is called  TERRORISM.

In any part of the world.

Snifffffff.....


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.
> 
> 2 Israelis killed = terrorism.
> 
> I can see what direction your propaganda is going.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You misunderstand. 2000 glorious martyrs were sacrificed at the altar of the Death Cult. It's truly remarkable that you believe the Death Cult can committ acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.
> 
> How lucky for you and your heroes in the Islamic Death Cult of Hamas. You can jointly parade those dead bodies around like a Death Cult trophy.
Click to expand...

You are one sick fuck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.
> 
> 2 Israelis killed = terrorism.
> 
> I can see what direction your propaganda is going.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you cannot.
> 
> You pull that number out of your trick hat.
> 
> Get the facts about who those Palestinians were, where they were, if they were armed or unarmed, how many of them give their lives for the Palestinian cause by not leaving the places where the AIF was going to attack, after warning them......etc....etc....etc
> 
> And the real number of "innocent" Palestinians who were killed in 2014 were ( that is the war you are talking about, right?  Where you got that out of the blue number? )
> 
> And yes, tin man, when Palestinians attack with cars, knives, screw drivers, rocks, molotov cocktails or explosives and KILL people, it is called  TERRORISM.
> 
> In any part of the world.
> 
> Snifffffff.....
Click to expand...

Israel starts a war and whines about a few casualties.


----------



## montelatici

Years from now people will look back on Israel's enablers and shake their heads in shame. I don't know of any nation over the past decades that confines millions of people to areas and then periodically bombs them killing thousands at a time.  It's an absurd situation that Israel gets a pass for that kind of behavior.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.
> 
> 2 Israelis killed = terrorism.
> 
> I can see what direction your propaganda is going.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You misunderstand. 2000 glorious martyrs were sacrificed at the altar of the Death Cult. It's truly remarkable that you believe the Death Cult can committ acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.
> 
> How lucky for you and your heroes in the Islamic Death Cult of Hamas. You can jointly parade those dead bodies around like a Death Cult trophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are one sick fuck.
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. You're left quite befuddled.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Years from now people will look back on Israel's enablers and shake their heads in shame. I don't know of any nation over the past decades that confines millions of people to areas and then periodically bombs them killing thousands at a time.  It's an absurd situation that Israel gets a pass for that kind of behavior.



Winning the war against the gee-had. It's a noble undertaking.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [All of Tin man's heroes are terrorists, or pro terrorists who have killed, or helped kill Jews ]
> 
> Arraf, a Christian Arab from the Detroit suburb of Roseville, majored in Hebrew at the University of Michigan. But she took Hebrew only to further her cause of helping Islamic terrorists against Israel. Shapiro was a counselor and top official for “Seeds of Peace,” the Islamic-Jewish moral equivalency summer camp in New England, the alumni of which include many Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As I frequently tell people, not all Christian Arabs are the good guys. In fact, many are not, as they have chosen–a la Huwaida Arraf–to be the water-carriers and warrior-dhimmis for Islam and its terrorists. But, if tomorrow, they took over, Arraf would be the first one they’d slaughter.
> 
> In 2002, a number of Islamic terrorists involved in homicide bombings and slaughter of American and Israeli civilians and soldiers hid in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Adam Shapiro’s and Huwaida Arraf’s group helped them. When the terrorists left and were, unfortunately, given safe passage to and freedom in Cyprus, they left behind a lot of garbage in the church, including used condoms.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are Huwaida Arraf & Adam Shapiro? Gaza Flotilla Leaders Sheltered “Mike’s Bar” Homicide Bombers
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, all of this terrorist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.  You keep showing that you do not have any response to these people's actions, which constantly lead to the murder of hundreds of innocent Jews and Non-Jews worldwide.
> 
> Call it Hasbara.
> 
> Call it Propaganda.
> 
> You are always the empty tin man you insist on being, as you continue to NEVER debunk anything that we post about your favorite people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2000 Palestinians killed in Gaza = self defense.
> 
> 2 Israelis killed = terrorism.
> 
> I can see what direction your propaganda is going.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you cannot.
> 
> You pull that number out of your trick hat.
> 
> Get the facts about who those Palestinians were, where they were, if they were armed or unarmed, how many of them give their lives for the Palestinian cause by not leaving the places where the AIF was going to attack, after warning them......etc....etc....etc
> 
> And the real number of "innocent" Palestinians who were killed in 2014 were ( that is the war you are talking about, right?  Where you got that out of the blue number? )
> 
> And yes, tin man, when Palestinians attack with cars, knives, screw drivers, rocks, molotov cocktails or explosives and KILL people, it is called  TERRORISM.
> 
> In any part of the world.
> 
> Snifffffff.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel starts a war and whines about a few casualties.
Click to expand...


You Islamics whine about a few cracked windows and broken screen doors. The dedicated Islamic terrorist welfare fraud will replace them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi*

As usual, the Lame Stream Media host dives right in with Israeli talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mohammad Assaf*


----------



## Hollie

Another muhammud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Another muhammud.


Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and has the nerve to play the terrorist card.

You people are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another muhammud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and has the nerve to play the terrorist card.
> 
> You people are a hoot.
Click to expand...


You Islamics kill islamics by the tens of thousands and you're whining about a few welfare thieves?

You are a hoot and a half.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another muhammud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and has the nerve to play the terrorist card.
> 
> You people are a hoot.
Click to expand...


I think Arabs killed the most Palestinians, and in shorter time...although Arabs are not at war with them. But why loose the opportunity to blame it all on da JOOOO right?


----------



## Hollie

Arab idol loser.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another muhammud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and has the nerve to play the terrorist card.
> 
> You people are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You Islamics kill islamics by the tens of thousands and you're whining about a few welfare thieves?
> 
> You are a hoot and a half.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians did that?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arab idol loser.


Indeed, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another muhammud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and has the nerve to play the terrorist card.
> 
> You people are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You Islamics kill islamics by the tens of thousands and you're whining about a few welfare thieves?
> 
> You are a hoot and a half.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians did that?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


It's that lovely Death Cult slogan that is so inspiring.

"We love death more than you love life" 

Slogans that keeps the Islamist Death Cult churning out the dead bodies.

How lucky you are that the Death Cult provides you cut and paste slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another muhammud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and has the nerve to play the terrorist card.
> 
> You people are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You Islamics kill islamics by the tens of thousands and you're whining about a few welfare thieves?
> 
> You are a hoot and a half.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians did that?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's that lovely Death Cult slogan that is so inspiring.
> 
> "We love death more than you love life"
> 
> Slogans that keeps the Islamist Death Cult churning out the dead bodies.
> 
> How lucky you are that the Death Cult provides you cut and paste slogans.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Interview with the Arab-islamist Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Profiłes in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist beat-down.

You love Death as much as the kuffar loves delivering it to you.

Win - win.




Muhamnedans - such silly slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leanne Mohamad, Winner, Jack Petchey’s “Speak Out” Challenge! Redbridge Regional Final 2015 16 *

**


----------



## Hollie

Hamas terrorist. Winner of the _Hellfire Missile Delivered Early Retirement Award_.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Winners announced at the Palestine Book Awards 2016 *


----------



## Hollie

Winners announced in the _*Dead Islamic Terrorist Walking*_ Awards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muslim youth gather in Istanbul to support Palestine*
*Youth from 30 countries take part in two-day conference aimed to show solidarity with the Palestinian people.*

Youth organisations and student unions from 30 countries gathered in the Turkish city of Istanbul for a conference aimed to show solidarity with the Palestinian people.

The two-day event, which tackles recent developments in the Palestinian territories, is organised by Turkey-based Anadolu Youth Association and the International Coalition of Youth and Student Unions to Support Palestine.

"We are organising this conference for the second year in a row with Palestine, al-Quds (Jerusalem) and al-Aqsa Mosque topping its agenda," Salih Turan, head of Anadolu Youth Association, said in his opening speech on Saturday.

"We represent the youth of all Muslim world who have the same feelings we hold towards Palestine," he said.

Muslim youth gather in Istanbul to support Palestine


----------



## Hollie

Hitler Youth Wannabes gather in Islamic terrorist summer camp.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour addressing at 54th Annual ISNA Convention  *


----------



## Hollie

Linda Sarsour - typical Islamist fascist


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Linda Sarsour - typical Islamist fascist


This is funny. Ben Shapiro always reminds me of Max Headroom.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour - typical Islamist fascist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is funny. Ben Shapiro always reminds me of Max Headroom.
Click to expand...


That's funny. You remind me of Linda Sarsour, an Islamist fascist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem terrorist short movie.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult ideology


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Death Cult ideology


So?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Death Cult ideology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
Click to expand...


So... stop whining... wannabe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Death Cult ideology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So... stop whining... wannabe.
Click to expand...

WOW, Israel can *MOOCH *planes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Death Cult ideology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So... stop whining... wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, Israel can *MOOCH *planes.
Click to expand...


And, deliver an uncompromising beat down to Islamic terrorists, since 1948. 

Just think, even with a dedicated, UN welfare fraud that perpetuates the invention of "Pal'istanians", you people still can't cobble together a functioning society. 

So much welfare handed out to Arab-Moslem beggars - so much incompetence and ineptitude bought and paid for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Death Cult ideology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So... stop whining... wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, Israel can *MOOCH *planes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, deliver an uncompromising beat down to Islamic terrorists, since 1948.
> 
> Just think, even with a dedicated, UN welfare fraud that perpetuates the invention of "Pal'istanians", you people still can't cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> So much welfare handed out to Arab-Moslem beggars - so much incompetence and ineptitude bought and paid for.
Click to expand...

Ooooo, you played the terrorist card.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Death Cult ideology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So... stop whining... wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, Israel can *MOOCH *planes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, deliver an uncompromising beat down to Islamic terrorists, since 1948.
> 
> Just think, even with a dedicated, UN welfare fraud that perpetuates the invention of "Pal'istanians", you people still can't cobble together a functioning society.
> 
> So much welfare handed out to Arab-Moslem beggars - so much incompetence and ineptitude bought and paid for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooo, you played the terrorist card.
Click to expand...



Oooooo, you're as befuddled as ever.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Life is full of dark humour for Palestine comedians in Gaza *


----------



## Hollie

Islam is no laughing matter

Khomeini himself put it this way: "Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious."


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Axis Of Evil Comedy - Maz Jobrani, Ahmed Ahmed, Aron Kader, Dena Obeidallah *

**


----------



## Hollie

Axis of evil - the two competing Islamist Death Cults.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist'istan now.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


PressTV. The "Mullah News Network"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The world today - the tragedy of Islamism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The world today - the tragedy of Islamism.


Ziowood Productions.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world today - the tragedy of Islamism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ziowood Productions.
Click to expand...


Angry muhammedan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Palestinian Poet Samah Sabawi *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rehab Nazzal, "Aerial Colonialism and the Struggle of Civilians on the Ground” *

**


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem degenerates?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who _were_ the Arab-Moslem terrorists




Shirley, Raytheon is Akbar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mnar Muhawesh


----------



## Hollie

Arab-moslem Death Cultist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rasha Nahas*


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult churning


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Expo draws thousands in London despite smear campaign *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Randa Abdel-Fattah *

**


----------



## Hollie

UNRWA fraud


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Susan Albuhawa - where's my welfare check?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Susan Albuhawa - where's my welfare check?


*International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation? *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Aww. Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists have lost their way.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorist welfare cheats


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Aww. Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists have lost their way.


What does he mean by the division in Fatah?


----------



## Hollie

Life is good for the welfare fraudsters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Life is good for the welfare fraudsters.


How much money did they make on their exports?


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Susan Akram - Russell Tribunal on Palestine - New York *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Amani Al-Khatahtbeh


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Amani Al-Khatahtbeh


You got a problem?
Take it up with the billionaire, Mrs. Araphart.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Aspiring young photographer launches crowdfunding campaign*

A young, talented and aspiring photographer, *Asmaa Elkhaldi,* 20, has embarked upon a LaunchGood crowdfunding campaign to help tell Gaza’s story.

With a mission of delivering hope and empowerment to the stories and people she documents, Elkhaldi aims to inspire her audience to change the world. “We as individuals can't change politics; but we can narrate stories in a way that makes a change in the lives of everyone watching,” Elkhaldi wrote, “Inspiration is a gift.”

**
*Aspiring young photographer launches crowdfunding campaign*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Note that the Lame Stream Media host kept trying to insert Israel's talking points like they always do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MOHAMMED ASSAF*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Mindful

No Palestine on this Turkish map.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So, the refugees (who are Israel's greatest victims.) cannot resist their oppressors? If Israel has a problem, it needs to address its oppression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> No Palestine on this Turkish map.


That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
Click to expand...


You have been told numerous times that the treaty of Lausanne never once mentions you mythical Pal'istan.

Why continue with your nonsense claims when you look like a buffoon for repeating such nonsense?


----------



## Indeependent

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have been told numerous times that the treaty of Lausanne never once mentions you mythical Pal'istan.
> 
> Why continue with your nonsense claims when you look like a buffoon for repeating such nonsense?
Click to expand...

Why bother with TinBrain; he's obviously mentally disturbed.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
Click to expand...



There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
Click to expand...

The Mandate was not a place. It was an appointed administration.

Palestine was the place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a place. It was an appointed administration.
> 
> Palestine was the place.
Click to expand...


Indeed, but never a state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
Click to expand...

Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a place. It was an appointed administration.
> 
> Palestine was the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, but never a state.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for denying what happened in 1948.
But why am I surprised.
It must be rather embarrassing to be a member of a tribe that thrives on murder.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for denying what happened in 1948.
> But why am I surprised.
> It must be rather embarrassing to be a member of a tribe that thrives on murder.
Click to expand...


In this conflict it's the not the Muslims and Christians that are thriving on murder.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for denying what happened in 1948.
> But why am I surprised.
> It must be rather embarrassing to be a member of a tribe that thrives on murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this conflict it's the not the Muslims and Christians that are thriving on murder.
Click to expand...

Sure, Monty Python, whatever you blather.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for denying what happened in 1948.
> But why am I surprised.
> It must be rather embarrassing to be a member of a tribe that thrives on murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this conflict it's the not the Muslims and Christians that are thriving on murder.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when foreigners came down from Europe to attack them and steal their land.

The Palestinians have never been the aggressors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat - Israel's War on Gaza, Interview by David Barsamian *

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for denying what happened in 1948.
> But why am I surprised.
> It must be rather embarrassing to be a member of a tribe that thrives on murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this conflict it's the not the Muslims and Christians that are thriving on murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when foreigners came down from Europe to attack them and steal their land.
> 
> The Palestinians have never been the aggressors.
Click to expand...


When were the invading / land stealing Egyptian, Syrisn and Lebanese squatters labeled as Pal'istanians?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestine on this Turkish map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was true until Turkey ceded the land to the new state of Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There was a British Mandate Palestine, including what is now Jordan. But never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine and Jordan were separated before they became states. Jordan is irrelevant  to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for denying what happened in 1948.
> But why am I surprised.
> It must be rather embarrassing to be a member of a tribe that thrives on murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this conflict it's the not the Muslims and Christians that are thriving on murder.
Click to expand...


Actually, Islamic terrorists are making incredible personal fortunes by exploiting the conflict.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


That is what foreign appointed oligarchs do. They sell their people down the river for their own gain.

BTW, this is a rerun.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what foreign appointed oligarchs do. They sell their people down the river for their own gain.
> 
> BTW, this is a rerun.
Click to expand...


How strange that foreign oligarchs have infiltrated hamas, fatah and so many of the Islamic states across the Islamic Middle East. 

It's as though there's a global conspiracy that has been in place for centuries. 

Can you cut and paste a link to a YouTube video?


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what foreign appointed oligarchs do. They sell their people down the river for their own gain.
> 
> BTW, this is a rerun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How strange that foreign oligarchs have infiltrated hamas, fatah and so many of the Islamic states across the Islamic Middle East.
> 
> It's as though there's a global conspiracy that has been in place for centuries.
> 
> Can you cut and paste a link to a YouTube video?
Click to expand...


Is Tin man still at it? Can't he give it a rest?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what foreign appointed oligarchs do. They sell their people down the river for their own gain.
> 
> BTW, this is a rerun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How strange that foreign oligarchs have infiltrated hamas, fatah and so many of the Islamic states across the Islamic Middle East.
> 
> It's as though there's a global conspiracy that has been in place for centuries.
> 
> Can you cut and paste a link to a YouTube video?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



That doesn't shed light on the global _Foreign Oligarchs have Infiltrated Hamas and Fatah™ conspiracy_ theory.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians]

The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.

But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.

The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.

The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.

Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.

The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.

Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.

(full article online)

Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats


Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.

What about Janet Mikhail?

Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


I was not putting the Mayor  the


P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


I was not putting down Mayor Baboun.  The article points out how the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians.

About Mayor Kkhail, this is what an article about her says about Ramallah:

*Traditionally, Ramallah was designated as a Christian city, meaning the mayor must be Christian by law. Yet Christians have long been a declining minority. Should that be updated?*

The fact that I am a Christian gives me a unique distinction. And the fact that I am the first female mayor in Palestine, and maybe in the entire Middle East, is also unique. This is proof of the liberal mind-set of the Palestinian people and particularly the people of Ramallah. I was elected by both men and women.

Since this city is traditionally Christian, the mayor should be Christian. This is what the Palestinian law says in order to protect minority rights.

Palestinian mayor presides over boom times in Ramallah
--------------

Tin man, do you have anything to say about the way the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians in Bethlehem, Ramallah, or any other part of Areas A, B, or Gaza?

How about how Jordanian or Lebanese Muslims treat the Palestinian Muslims and Christians in those country?  How about in Syria?

All I see is what Mohammad tried to avoid by forcing all clans, Tribes to become Muslim in Arabia.   They are mainly part of a clan, a tribe, then Arabs, and then Muslims.

And Christians and Jews must be submissive to Muslims at all times.

The "Palestinians" are nothing more than a continuation of the Muslim/Arab mind set
where the whole world must follow Islam.

What a pity that you do continue to fail to make the proper research and learn from it.

In other words, you are ok with Muslims suppressing, oppressing, threatening and attacking Palestinian, Israeli, Gaza, Areas A and B of the PA, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Egyptian,  and any other Christians.

Thanks Tin.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting the Mayor  the
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting down Mayor Baboun.  The article points out how the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians.
> 
> About Mayor Kkhail, this is what an article about her says about Ramallah:
> 
> *Traditionally, Ramallah was designated as a Christian city, meaning the mayor must be Christian by law. Yet Christians have long been a declining minority. Should that be updated?*
> 
> The fact that I am a Christian gives me a unique distinction. And the fact that I am the first female mayor in Palestine, and maybe in the entire Middle East, is also unique. This is proof of the liberal mind-set of the Palestinian people and particularly the people of Ramallah. I was elected by both men and women.
> 
> Since this city is traditionally Christian, the mayor should be Christian. This is what the Palestinian law says in order to protect minority rights.
> 
> Palestinian mayor presides over boom times in Ramallah
> --------------
> 
> Tin man, do you have anything to say about the way the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians in Bethlehem, Ramallah, or any other part of Areas A, B, or Gaza?
> 
> How about how Jordanian or Lebanese Muslims treat the Palestinian Muslims and Christians in those country?  How about in Syria?
> 
> All I see is what Mohammad tried to avoid by forcing all clans, Tribes to become Muslim in Arabia.   They are mainly part of a clan, a tribe, then Arabs, and then Muslims.
> 
> And Christians and Jews must be submissive to Muslims at all times.
> 
> The "Palestinians" are nothing more than a continuation of the Muslim/Arab mind set
> where the whole world must follow Islam.
> 
> What a pity that you do continue to fail to make the proper research and learn from it.
> 
> In other words, you are ok with Muslims suppressing, oppressing, threatening and attacking Palestinian, Israeli, Gaza, Areas A and B of the PA, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Egyptian,  and any other Christians.
> 
> Thanks Tin.
Click to expand...

For one, the only reports I have seen about Christians being persecuted in Palestine were from sources connected to Israel.

Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Christians. Why would that be if they were persecuted there?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI detect bias in news media " CNN " *

As usual, the Lame Stream Media host starts out with Israeli talking points. Who hands out those talking points?

**


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting the Mayor  the
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting down Mayor Baboun.  The article points out how the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians.
> 
> About Mayor Kkhail, this is what an article about her says about Ramallah:
> 
> *Traditionally, Ramallah was designated as a Christian city, meaning the mayor must be Christian by law. Yet Christians have long been a declining minority. Should that be updated?*
> 
> The fact that I am a Christian gives me a unique distinction. And the fact that I am the first female mayor in Palestine, and maybe in the entire Middle East, is also unique. This is proof of the liberal mind-set of the Palestinian people and particularly the people of Ramallah. I was elected by both men and women.
> 
> Since this city is traditionally Christian, the mayor should be Christian. This is what the Palestinian law says in order to protect minority rights.
> 
> Palestinian mayor presides over boom times in Ramallah
> --------------
> 
> Tin man, do you have anything to say about the way the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians in Bethlehem, Ramallah, or any other part of Areas A, B, or Gaza?
> 
> How about how Jordanian or Lebanese Muslims treat the Palestinian Muslims and Christians in those country?  How about in Syria?
> 
> All I see is what Mohammad tried to avoid by forcing all clans, Tribes to become Muslim in Arabia.   They are mainly part of a clan, a tribe, then Arabs, and then Muslims.
> 
> And Christians and Jews must be submissive to Muslims at all times.
> 
> The "Palestinians" are nothing more than a continuation of the Muslim/Arab mind set
> where the whole world must follow Islam.
> 
> What a pity that you do continue to fail to make the proper research and learn from it.
> 
> In other words, you are ok with Muslims suppressing, oppressing, threatening and attacking Palestinian, Israeli, Gaza, Areas A and B of the PA, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Egyptian,  and any other Christians.
> 
> Thanks Tin.
Click to expand...


This is another Zionist myth that conflates Arabian tribes with Palestinians, who were Levantine Christians when they were conquered and subsequently ruled by Arabians.  When the Crusaders reconquered Palestine, the majority of the people were still Christians and remained so for hundreds of years after Saladin evicted the Crusaders. The Palestinians did not magically become Arabian when they converted to Islam from Christianity.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting the Mayor  the
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting down Mayor Baboun.  The article points out how the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians.
> 
> About Mayor Kkhail, this is what an article about her says about Ramallah:
> 
> *Traditionally, Ramallah was designated as a Christian city, meaning the mayor must be Christian by law. Yet Christians have long been a declining minority. Should that be updated?*
> 
> The fact that I am a Christian gives me a unique distinction. And the fact that I am the first female mayor in Palestine, and maybe in the entire Middle East, is also unique. This is proof of the liberal mind-set of the Palestinian people and particularly the people of Ramallah. I was elected by both men and women.
> 
> Since this city is traditionally Christian, the mayor should be Christian. This is what the Palestinian law says in order to protect minority rights.
> 
> Palestinian mayor presides over boom times in Ramallah
> --------------
> 
> Tin man, do you have anything to say about the way the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians in Bethlehem, Ramallah, or any other part of Areas A, B, or Gaza?
> 
> How about how Jordanian or Lebanese Muslims treat the Palestinian Muslims and Christians in those country?  How about in Syria?
> 
> All I see is what Mohammad tried to avoid by forcing all clans, Tribes to become Muslim in Arabia.   They are mainly part of a clan, a tribe, then Arabs, and then Muslims.
> 
> And Christians and Jews must be submissive to Muslims at all times.
> 
> The "Palestinians" are nothing more than a continuation of the Muslim/Arab mind set
> where the whole world must follow Islam.
> 
> What a pity that you do continue to fail to make the proper research and learn from it.
> 
> In other words, you are ok with Muslims suppressing, oppressing, threatening and attacking Palestinian, Israeli, Gaza, Areas A and B of the PA, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Egyptian,  and any other Christians.
> 
> Thanks Tin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is another Zionist myth that conflates Arabian tribes with Palestinians, who were Levantine Christians when they were conquered and subsequently ruled by Arabians.  When the Crusaders reconquered Palestine, the majority of the people were still Christians and remained so for hundreds of years after Saladin evicted the Crusaders. The Palestinians did not magically become Arabian when they converted to Islam from Christianity.
Click to expand...


It is funny how the invading / colonizing European Christian Crusaders magically became Arabs.... so-called Pal'estanian Arabs.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting the Mayor  the
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians]
> 
> The good news is that Bethlehem has its first female mayor.
> 
> But the bad news is that Mayor Vera Baboun, elected in October 2012, has since been facing a smear campaign that reached it peak last week when assailants damaged her private vehicle.
> 
> The assault on the mayor's car serves as a reminder of the ongoing tensions between the Christian minority and Muslim majority of Bethlehem. It also highlights the huge challenges facing Palestinian women in a conservative society.
> 
> The leaders of the Christian community in Bethlehem rarely talk in public about the tensions with their Muslim neighbors; they prefer instead to direct their criticism against Israel. By turning a blind eye to the problems facing Christians, these leaders are doing a disservice to their own community.
> 
> Ever since she was elected, Baboun, a mother of five who was headmistress of the Roman Catholic High School in the nearby town of Beit Sahour, has been forced to deal with a well-organized campaign aimed at discrediting her and removing her from her job.
> 
> The campaign is being waged by some Muslim residents of Bethlehem and its surrounding refugee camps.
> 
> Some Palestinians clearly find it difficult to accept a woman as mayor of one of the most important Palestinian cities.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bethlehem's Female Mayor Faces Smears, Threats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course this is from Gatestone so you have to take it with a couple tons of salt.
> 
> What about Janet Mikhail?
> 
> Janet Mikhail - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was not putting down Mayor Baboun.  The article points out how the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians.
> 
> About Mayor Kkhail, this is what an article about her says about Ramallah:
> 
> *Traditionally, Ramallah was designated as a Christian city, meaning the mayor must be Christian by law. Yet Christians have long been a declining minority. Should that be updated?*
> 
> The fact that I am a Christian gives me a unique distinction. And the fact that I am the first female mayor in Palestine, and maybe in the entire Middle East, is also unique. This is proof of the liberal mind-set of the Palestinian people and particularly the people of Ramallah. I was elected by both men and women.
> 
> Since this city is traditionally Christian, the mayor should be Christian. This is what the Palestinian law says in order to protect minority rights.
> 
> Palestinian mayor presides over boom times in Ramallah
> --------------
> 
> Tin man, do you have anything to say about the way the Palestinian Muslims treat the Palestinian Christians in Bethlehem, Ramallah, or any other part of Areas A, B, or Gaza?
> 
> How about how Jordanian or Lebanese Muslims treat the Palestinian Muslims and Christians in those country?  How about in Syria?
> 
> All I see is what Mohammad tried to avoid by forcing all clans, Tribes to become Muslim in Arabia.   They are mainly part of a clan, a tribe, then Arabs, and then Muslims.
> 
> And Christians and Jews must be submissive to Muslims at all times.
> 
> The "Palestinians" are nothing more than a continuation of the Muslim/Arab mind set
> where the whole world must follow Islam.
> 
> What a pity that you do continue to fail to make the proper research and learn from it.
> 
> In other words, you are ok with Muslims suppressing, oppressing, threatening and attacking Palestinian, Israeli, Gaza, Areas A and B of the PA, Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Egyptian,  and any other Christians.
> 
> Thanks Tin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For one, the only reports I have seen about Christians being persecuted in Palestine were from sources connected to Israel.
> 
> Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Christians. Why would that be if they were persecuted there?
Click to expand...


I for one usually get a chuckle with your babbling. 

For the reality averse, it's worth pointing out that life is tenuous for Christians in Islamist hellholes. The horrific use of blasphemy laws in Pakistan is basically the model for islamic fascism. Its nothing more than state-sanctioned vigilantism ready to step in at any point whenever a Moslem has a dispute with a Christian. Christians are barely three percent of the population in both of the Islamic terrorist controlled enclaves of Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan. 

I suppose we can presume that a Christian first having inexplicably determined that life for him or her as a tiny minority in any of the Islamist totalitarian societies like the Pal'istanian Death Cult can most certainly be made better by finding creative ways to provoke Islamic fascists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Conversation with Dubai Initiative Research Fellow Diana Buttu *

**


----------



## Hollie

A conversation with Death Cultist


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## Hollie

More of the wholesome goodness that is the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dana Dajani


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Dana Dajani



*al-Dajani family:
*
Claiming *descent from the Prophet Muhhamad* (d. 632) *through al-Hassayn ibn-Ali *(d. 680), Jerusalem's al-Dajany family began its more immediate history with Shaykh Ahmad Shihab al-Din (1480-1562), who in 1523 was appointed by ottoman sultan Sulayman (1521-66) *steward over the traditional tombs of King David and Solomon, along with two adjacent mosques.The appointment entailed control of the Waqfs....*

For any questions look at the family tree on page 96:
دراسات عربية وإسلامية


----------



## montelatici

You are so obsessed with this fake tribe thing.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> You are so obsessed with this fake tribe thing.



Tribalism is a dominant feature of the Palestinian, or any other Arab society. The tribes and tribal clans run the cities on the ground.* Arafat even had a special office for tribal relations.*
Why do You keep running from such an obvious thing?

Seems You see something wrong with the Palestinian society.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so obsessed with this fake tribe thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tribalism is a dominant feature of the Palestinian, or any other Arab society. The tribes and tribal clans run the cities on the ground.* Arafat even had a special office for tribal relations.*
> Why do You keep running from such an obvious thing?
> 
> Seems You see something wrong with the Palestinian society.
Click to expand...


No more than the Jews.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so obsessed with this fake tribe thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tribalism is a dominant feature of the Palestinian, or any other Arab society. The tribes and tribal clans run the cities on the ground.* Arafat even had a special office for tribal relations.*
> Why do You keep running from such an obvious thing?
> 
> Seems You see something wrong with the Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No more than the Jews.
Click to expand...


It's  remarkable how little you know. 

Pakistani council orders "revenge rape" of 16-year-old girl


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so obsessed with this fake tribe thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tribalism is a dominant feature of the Palestinian, or any other Arab society. The tribes and tribal clans run the cities on the ground.* Arafat even had a special office for tribal relations.*
> Why do You keep running from such an obvious thing?
> 
> Seems You see something wrong with the Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No more than the Jews.
Click to expand...


One of the first moves by Arafat in '94 was to establish a *Tribal Department.*

Tribalism is very much alive in the Palestinian society as in any other Arab society (like in Saudi Arabia, Qatar or Yemen):

*Will tribalism dominate upcoming Palestinian elections?*


_"As electoral lists form in the runup to the local Palestinian elections, various political factions worry that *tribal and family loyalties will trump political affiliations.*"_
_





Will tribalism dominate upcoming Palestinian elections?_


Keep promoting that_ 'secular independent' _caliphate, You'd make a good dhimmi.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Lamis Deek*



The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.
Click to expand...

Lamis Deek is a big defender of the US constitution.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lamis Deek is a big defender of the US constitution.
Click to expand...


So are the Taliban.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lamis Deek is a big defender of the US constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are the Taliban.
Click to expand...

Off topic. The Taliban is not in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lamis Deek is a big defender of the US constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are the Taliban.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. The Taliban is not in Palestine.
Click to expand...


Off topic, neither is Lamis Deek.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lamis Deek is a big defender of the US constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are the Taliban.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. The Taliban is not in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off topic, neither is Lamis Deek.
Click to expand...

She can't help it that she has been ethnically cleansed from her homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Manal Fakhoury *

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The NYPD was targeting those elements of radical Lutherans for a while but decided _The War on Islam_™ made better press for Islamic fascists like Lamis Deek.
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek is a big defender of the US constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are the Taliban.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. The Taliban is not in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off topic, neither is Lamis Deek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She can't help it that she has been ethnically cleansed from her homeland.
Click to expand...


Of course she can, not being "ethnically cleansed". Like so many of your Islamic terrorist heroes, they enjoy the freedoms they exploit here in _The Great Satan™. _They're safely ensconced in their western lifestyles, protected from the very Islamic fascists you idolize.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Malak Mattar


----------



## P F Tinmore

Noel Kharman


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Great performance at Islamic terrorist festival.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Great performance at Islamic terrorist festival.


Attacking the occupation is not terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Maysoon Zayid*


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist festival 2017


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorist festival 2017


Reruns already? Are you running out of PMW propaganda videos?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist festival 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reruns already? Are you running out of PMW propaganda videos?
Click to expand...


A little defensive?  What does your whining about propaganda have to do with Islamic terrorists desecrating yet another religious / historical site?

OK, flail your Pom Poms.


----------



## Hollie

Festival Time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nour Freteikh*


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists desecrating a holy / historical site


----------



## Hollie




----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


>


It is not libel.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not libel.
Click to expand...


You wouldn't know.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Haidar Eid from Al Aqsa University on Turkey-Israel relations *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Laila Halaby reads an excerpt from the novel 'Fila Perez, Warrior' *

**


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> *Laila Halaby reads an excerpt from the novel 'Fila Perez, Warrior' *
> 
> **


Let's stick to historical facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic festival at Temple Mount


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gaza'istan. A contemporary Islamic terrorist welfare fraud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Khaled Jarrar


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Living under occupation in Palestine with Janna Jihad *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


>


A...video!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Welcome to Islamic Terrorist'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Now, why isn't she and all other Arabs advocating for the right to return to the Arabian Peninsula, where they all came from?

Oh, wait, the Saudis, the EUA, Qatar.....

They do not want them back.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Should people instead tour the apartheid Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan? Lots of history and culture there.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Maysoon Zayid*



All those speaking about how religions can get along should get their asses up to the Temple Mount and start insisting that the Jewish people have equal rights to prayer and worship.  

One wonders why they don't.


----------



## Shusha

Where ARE those people, anyway?  Why don't any of them post on message boards like this?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Apartheid Gaza]

Hamas executed  23 Palestinians under cover of Gaza conflict, says Amnesty


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maysoon Zayid*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All those speaking about how religions can get along should get their asses up to the Temple Mount and start insisting that the Jewish people have equal rights to prayer and worship.
> 
> One wonders why they don't.
Click to expand...

And the Muslims and Christians should flood Synagogues and call it freedom of religion.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Maysoon Zayid*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All those speaking about how religions can get along should get their asses up to the Temple Mount and start insisting that the Jewish people have equal rights to prayer and worship.
> 
> One wonders why they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the Muslims and Christians should flood Synagogues and call it freedom of religion.
Click to expand...


Christians and Muslims have been flooding Synagogues for 1700 years and calling it their right to discriminate and destroy those Synagogues if they so wanted.

Jordan alone destroyed 58 Synagogues in Jerusalem once it took over the Jewish Quarter of that city in 1948.

Yes, Habib.....THAT is what "freedom of religion" means to some Muslims....and some Christians alike.


Chai


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli court extends the detention of Palestinian politician Khalida Jarrar *

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli court extends the detention of Palestinian politician Khalida Jarrar *
> 
> **



*Again troubles with the Tuqan tribe?*

Apparently no appartheid or Jews in Jordan. They should consider.

Jarrar clan - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.


Ha, the first sentence was a lie. I didn't bother watching the rest.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, the first sentence was a lie. I didn't bother watching the rest.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you're offended that the apartheid nature of Islamic terrorist enclaves is exposed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Salfit City Profile 

*Location and Physical Characteristics *
Salfit city, which includes Khirbet Qeis (Qeis ruins) within its borders, is the only city in Salfit Governorate. It is bordered by Al Lubban ash Sharqiya (in Ramallah Governorate) and Iskaka to its east, Bani Zeid ash Sharqiya and „Ammuriyya (in Ramallah Governorate) to the south, Farkha and Bruqin villages to its west, and Haris, Kifl Haris and Marda villages to its north (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

*History *
Salfit city is known for its cultivation of grape and fig vines and its ancient wine presses which are used in the present day. The word “Salfit” consists of two syllables; “Sal” meaning baskets and “Fit” meaning grapes. The city was established in the Canaanite era (15th century AD), with its residents descending from the Bani Nimra family, originating from East Jordan. The city is also home to members of the Al Hawatra family descending from the prophet Al Abbas.* They left Al Hijaz in Saudi Arabia, travelled through to East Jordan, then moved to the neighboring village of Farkha before residing in Salfit city, which includes Khirbet Qeis locality (Salfit Municipality, 2012).*
http://vprofile.arij.org/salfit/pdfs/vprofile/Salfit_cp_en.pdf
*
Mahmoud Abbas - *the PA leader
*








*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian leaders claim that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanite people who lived in the Land of Canaan before the Israelite tribes settled in it.
What is the source of the name “Palestine?” It is not Arab; it is derived from the name “Palestina,” by which the Roman Emperor Hadrian chose to call the land after the defeat of the Bar Kokhba Revolt in 135 CE. His aim was to erase “Judea.”


According to Palestinian historian Muhammad Y. Muslih, during the entire 400 year period of Ottoman rule (1517-1918), before the British set up the 30-year-long Palestine Mandate, “There was no political unit known as Palestine.” In Arabic, the area was known as _al-Ard al-Muqadassa_(the holy land), or _Surya al-Janubiyya_ (southern Syria), but not Palestine.


Not a single Palestinian tribe identifies its roots in Canaan; instead, they all see themselves as proud Arabs descended from the most notable Arab tribes of the Hejaz, today’s Iraq, or Yemen. Even the Kanaan family of Nablus locates its origins in Syria. Some Palestinian clans are Kurdish or Egyptian in origin, and in Mount Hebron, there are traditions of Jewish origins.


This study does not deny the right of the Palestinian clans as a whole to define themselves as a Palestinian people. It would be better, however, if the Palestinian leadership were to choose a positive and constructive narrative and not a baseless one that is intended to negate that of the Jews of Israel.
(full article online)

Who Are the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, the first sentence was a lie. I didn't bother watching the rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're offended that the apartheid nature of Islamic terrorist enclaves is exposed.
Click to expand...

If the first sentence is a lie, how much can you trust the rest?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian leaders claim that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanite people who lived in the Land of Canaan before the Israelite tribes settled in it.
> What is the source of the name “Palestine?” It is not Arab; it is derived from the name “Palestina,” by which the Roman Emperor Hadrian chose to call the land after the defeat of the Bar Kokhba Revolt in 135 CE. His aim was to erase “Judea.”
> 
> 
> According to Palestinian historian Muhammad Y. Muslih, during the entire 400 year period of Ottoman rule (1517-1918), before the British set up the 30-year-long Palestine Mandate, “There was no political unit known as Palestine.” In Arabic, the area was known as _al-Ard al-Muqadassa_(the holy land), or _Surya al-Janubiyya_ (southern Syria), but not Palestine.
> 
> 
> Not a single Palestinian tribe identifies its roots in Canaan; instead, they all see themselves as proud Arabs descended from the most notable Arab tribes of the Hejaz, today’s Iraq, or Yemen. Even the Kanaan family of Nablus locates its origins in Syria. Some Palestinian clans are Kurdish or Egyptian in origin, and in Mount Hebron, there are traditions of Jewish origins.
> 
> 
> This study does not deny the right of the Palestinian clans as a whole to define themselves as a Palestinian people. It would be better, however, if the Palestinian leadership were to choose a positive and constructive narrative and not a baseless one that is intended to negate that of the Jews of Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Who Are the Palestinians?


The Palestinians have had legal status since the Treaty of Lausanne.

So, what is all this other crap about?


----------



## montelatici

Not to mention the fact that Herodotus called it Palestine a few centuries before Rome was established. What ignorant asses these Zionists are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Palestinian Youth Activists Janna Jihad & Ahed Tamimi on ITV *

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Interview with Palestinian Youth Activists Janna Jihad & Ahed Tamimi on ITV *
> 
> **



Shirley Temper and Shirley Jr. Symbols of Arab-Moslem child abuse.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Interview with Palestinian Youth Activists Janna Jihad & Ahed Tamimi on ITV *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper and Shirley Jr. Symbols of Arab-Moslem child abuse.
Click to expand...

If anybody abuses them it will be Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Sorry chuckles but the tactic of using / abusing a fair-haired, light skinned female as a means to appeal to Westerners was a fail. She managed to fill the role of the angry, violent Islamic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversation with Palestinian-American poet Remi Kanazi *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Ghada Karmi "Israels Policies Are Those Of Outlaws & Criminals. It's Not A Valid State!" *

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]

Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.

The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)

The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!

(full article online)

Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Interview with Palestinian Youth Activists Janna Jihad & Ahed Tamimi on ITV *
> 
> **



Ahed Tamimi -the Palestinian poster child

















*Banu Tamim*

The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt,[1][2] Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine. The word _Tamim_ in Arabic means strong and solid. It can also mean perfection.[3]

Before the advent of Wahhabism there was very little history of Islamic education amongst Banu Tamim


*Dynasties*

*
The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
Al Khater – a prestigious family of the middle east based primarily in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain
*


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians and this is how they negotiate ]

WATCH: Driving Through a Violent Palestinian Lynch Mob


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]
> 
> Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.
> 
> The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


He may have a point.


Sixties Fan said:


> After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)


That is true. Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
Those are the rules of state succession laid down in international law. The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became the citizens of that successor state. The Palestinians are the sovereigns of that territory.

As far as laws go, I am not too sure. Again, the rules of state succession say that the laws of the predecessor state rule until the people of the successor state change them. I don't know what the Turkish laws were in regard to immigration and land purchase. However, I do know that Turkey was opposed to the Zionist colonial project so there may be something there.

The British never would allow the Palestinians to pass their own laws so whatever Turkey had would be the laws he may be referring to.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Interview with Palestinian Youth Activists Janna Jihad & Ahed Tamimi on ITV *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper and Shirley Jr. Symbols of Arab-Moslem child abuse.
Click to expand...

Two amazing young ladies.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]
> 
> Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.
> 
> The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> He may have a point.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> Those are the rules of state succession laid down in international law. The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became the citizens of that successor state. The Palestinians are the sovereigns of that territory.
> 
> As far as laws go, I am not too sure. Again, the rules of state succession say that the laws of the predecessor state rule until the people of the successor state change them. I don't know what the Turkish laws were in regard to immigration and land purchase. However, I do know that Turkey was opposed to the Zionist colonial project so there may be something there.
> 
> The British never would allow the Palestinians to pass their own laws so whatever Turkey had would be the laws he may be referring to.
Click to expand...



"As far as laws go, I am not too sure."

Obviously. That's why it's always worth a chuckle when you issue your legal briefs. They're briefly amusing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Poor fucking IDF goontard. They can dish it out but they can't take it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]
> 
> Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.
> 
> The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> He may have a point.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> Those are the rules of state succession laid down in international law. The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became the citizens of that successor state. The Palestinians are the sovereigns of that territory.
> 
> As far as laws go, I am not too sure. Again, the rules of state succession say that the laws of the predecessor state rule until the people of the successor state change them. I don't know what the Turkish laws were in regard to immigration and land purchase. However, I do know that Turkey was opposed to the Zionist colonial project so there may be something there.
> 
> The British never would allow the Palestinians to pass their own laws so whatever Turkey had would be the laws he may be referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "As far as laws go, I am not too sure."
> 
> Obviously. That's why it's always worth a chuckle when you issue your legal briefs. They're briefly amusing.
Click to expand...

And you don't know either. However, the Zionist settler colonial project is a violation of international law. Local laws? They were not even mentioned in the article.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian prisoner of conscience Bassem Tamimi speaks out *

*As always, it is Israel's military attacking Palestinian civilians.*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]
> 
> Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.
> 
> The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> He may have a point.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> Those are the rules of state succession laid down in international law. The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became the citizens of that successor state. The Palestinians are the sovereigns of that territory.
> 
> As far as laws go, I am not too sure. Again, the rules of state succession say that the laws of the predecessor state rule until the people of the successor state change them. I don't know what the Turkish laws were in regard to immigration and land purchase. However, I do know that Turkey was opposed to the Zionist colonial project so there may be something there.
> 
> The British never would allow the Palestinians to pass their own laws so whatever Turkey had would be the laws he may be referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "As far as laws go, I am not too sure."
> 
> Obviously. That's why it's always worth a chuckle when you issue your legal briefs. They're briefly amusing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you don't know either. However, the Zionist settler colonial project is a violation of international law. Local laws? They were not even mentioned in the article.
Click to expand...


Your typical cut and paste slogans are a hoot. 

Lecture us further with your in depth knowledge of International Law. Or, thrill us with more cliche's and slogans such as your Pom Pom flailing_ Zionist settler colonial project ™_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian prisoner of conscience Bassem Tamimi speaks out *
> 
> *As always, it is Israel's military attacking Palestinian civilians.*
> 
> **



Another welfare recipient for the Fatah sponsored, UNRWA funded welfare fraud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian prisoner of conscience Bassem Tamimi speaks out *
> 
> *As always, it is Israel's military attacking Palestinian civilians.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another welfare recipient for the Fatah sponsored, UNRWA funded welfare fraud.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli bullshit talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]
> 
> Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.
> 
> The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> He may have a point.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> Those are the rules of state succession laid down in international law. The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became the citizens of that successor state. The Palestinians are the sovereigns of that territory.
> 
> As far as laws go, I am not too sure. Again, the rules of state succession say that the laws of the predecessor state rule until the people of the successor state change them. I don't know what the Turkish laws were in regard to immigration and land purchase. However, I do know that Turkey was opposed to the Zionist colonial project so there may be something there.
> 
> The British never would allow the Palestinians to pass their own laws so whatever Turkey had would be the laws he may be referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "As far as laws go, I am not too sure."
> 
> Obviously. That's why it's always worth a chuckle when you issue your legal briefs. They're briefly amusing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you don't know either. However, the Zionist settler colonial project is a violation of international law. Local laws? They were not even mentioned in the article.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your typical cut and paste slogans are a hoot.
> 
> Lecture us further with your in depth knowledge of International Law. Or, thrill us with more cliche's and slogans such as your Pom Pom flailing_ Zionist settler colonial project ™_
Click to expand...

Do you mean the colonial project that Britain and the Zionists talked openly about in their own documentation.

Now the lying sacks of shit in Israel try to rewrite their own history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[The partners for Peace.  From birth to death ]





Bang snaps are not dangerous, of course, but the idea that 2-year old kids are being taught from the cradle to throw explosive devices on Jews would be considered shocking in any context - except when the attackers are Palestinians.

(full article online)

Even two-year old Palestinians are taught to attack Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ["International Law"  according to a Palestinian ]
> 
> Ma'an publishes, with a straight face, an article by a self-described international law expert named Samir Dweikat describing exactly why Jews have no right to buy land in British Mandate Palestine under international law.
> 
> The "logic" is fairly bizarre, but the argument seems to go like this: After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> The laws that governed the area of what became British Mandate Palestine were -Palestinian Arab laws!
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lawyer says all Jewish land purchases, ever, violate international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> He may have a point.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, the Palestinian Arabs gained legal ownership of everything from the river to the sea (even though these boundaries were created by the British and French.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> Those are the rules of state succession laid down in international law. The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became the citizens of that successor state. The Palestinians are the sovereigns of that territory.
> 
> As far as laws go, I am not too sure. Again, the rules of state succession say that the laws of the predecessor state rule until the people of the successor state change them. I don't know what the Turkish laws were in regard to immigration and land purchase. However, I do know that Turkey was opposed to the Zionist colonial project so there may be something there.
> 
> The British never would allow the Palestinians to pass their own laws so whatever Turkey had would be the laws he may be referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "As far as laws go, I am not too sure."
> 
> Obviously. That's why it's always worth a chuckle when you issue your legal briefs. They're briefly amusing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you don't know either. However, the Zionist settler colonial project is a violation of international law. Local laws? They were not even mentioned in the article.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your typical cut and paste slogans are a hoot.
> 
> Lecture us further with your in depth knowledge of International Law. Or, thrill us with more cliche's and slogans such as your Pom Pom flailing_ Zionist settler colonial project ™_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the colonial project that Britain and the Zionists talked openly about in their own documentation.
> 
> Now the lying sacks of shit in Israel try to rewrite their own history.
Click to expand...


I think you mean the Islamist colonial / settler project undertaken by the Turks and detailed within the Hamas charter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [The partners for Peace.  From birth to death ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bang snaps are not dangerous, of course, but the idea that 2-year old kids are being taught from the cradle to throw explosive devices on Jews would be considered shocking in any context - except when the attackers are Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Even two-year old Palestinians are taught to attack Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


The settler colonialists are the attackers. People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires aggression.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Here is a new one, on the Palestinian way to "victory" ]

This means that these Arab youths are deliberately trying to be stopped and searched by Israeli police, slowing down their ability to visit their supposedly holy site - all because they think that it makes the Israeli police frustrated to search a bag and not find any weapons. And if they are traveling in groups then all of them must wait for every bag to be inspected.

This makes them happy.

While normally, being stopped and searched is considered humiliation for the Arabs, but now that they consider it humiliation for the police they _want_ to be stopped and searched.

Even more insane is that metal detectors would allow them a much faster path to praying (and playing soccer) on the Haram al-Sharif - but that is too "humiliating" so they'd rather be inspected one by one.

But that isn't shameful when they believe that they are humiliating the police instead of being humiliated, which was what they considered being frisked a week ago.

This also illustrates the zero-sum game mentality - if we aren't humiliated, then the enemy must be feeling shamed. And vice versa.
----------
The Palestinians don't need aid. They need an army of social workers and psychologists to help their self-esteem (=honor.)  If they were half as confident in themselves as they pretend to be, they would be able to make concessions for real peace instead of symbolic victories like supposedly frustrating the police.

(full article online)

Now Arabs WANT to be frisked by police on way to Al Aqsa. You can't make this up. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [The partners for Peace.  From birth to death ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bang snaps are not dangerous, of course, but the idea that 2-year old kids are being taught from the cradle to throw explosive devices on Jews would be considered shocking in any context - except when the attackers are Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Even two-year old Palestinians are taught to attack Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The settler colonialists are the attackers. People do not get colonized voluntarily. It requires aggression.
Click to expand...


Tell that to the followers of Mohammad and their Islamic military which invaded the land of Israel, as they did everywhere else from the 7th century CE on, and conquered and did nothing with what they had.  

The Arab settler colonialists need to stop crying over spilled water.  They have land from Arabia to North Africa.  All invaded, conquered, and done nothing with.
Even the Turk Ottomans did nothing with it when they conquered all of the land the Arabs had conquered before, and more of it.
Nor did the Moors.

Arabs, Moors, Turk Ottomans are the settler colonialists and they are not going to change history by saying that the Jews are settler colonialists on their own ancient homeland.

Zero win for you Habib.


----------



## Sixties Fan

["Kill the Jews", but by all means have them save your life ]


A source of pride is the consistent headlines of Israel providing medical assistance to other countries, even those that are not friendly.

For instance, recently, a medical team from Israel was in Fiji providing medical assistance

Also, over the past few years, Israel has not only brought Syrians in need of medical attention into the country, Israel has also built clinics inside Syria and provided tons of food, medicine and clothes.

But what about closer to home? What kind of medical help does Israel provide to Palestinian Arabs?

The medical help that Palestinian leaders get from Israeli hospitals is an open secret, not the least because of the irony of these Arab leaders accusing the Jewish state of all manner of war crimes and apartheid -- all while availing themselves of those medical facilities.

(full article online )

It isn't only Saeb Erekat that uses Israeli hospitals (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]

World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.

PA slashes permits for sick Gazans


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]
> 
> World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.
> 
> PA slashes permits for sick Gazans


The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]
> 
> World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.
> 
> PA slashes permits for sick Gazans
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.
Click to expand...


Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]
> 
> World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.
> 
> PA slashes permits for sick Gazans
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.
Click to expand...

It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]
> 
> World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.
> 
> PA slashes permits for sick Gazans
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
Click to expand...


Your legal opinion was in the news? 

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]
> 
> World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.
> 
> PA slashes permits for sick Gazans
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your legal opinion was in the news?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.

The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hurting sick people to force another group to cave ]
> 
> World Health Organization says PA not letting sick people leave Gaza for treatment in order to pressure Hamas.
> 
> PA slashes permits for sick Gazans
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your legal opinion was in the news?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.
> 
> The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.
Click to expand...


Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya. 

What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "PA" in the West Bank is not a legal government. It is a US/Israeli creation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your legal opinion was in the news?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.
> 
> The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya.
> 
> What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?
Click to expand...

The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Floating conspiracy theories as a means to excuse Arab-Moslem ineptitude and incompetence is pretty standard fare for Islamic terrorist apologists.
> 
> 
> 
> It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your legal opinion was in the news?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.
> 
> The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya.
> 
> What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.
Click to expand...


Another of your hysterical rants.


----------



## louie888

Art__Allm said:


> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.


But, but, but... hamas... yeah... and rockets, rockets everywhere...


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
> 
> 
> 
> But, but, but... hamas... yeah... and rockets, rockets everywhere...
Click to expand...


About 11,000 since 2005. 

You feel stupider and stupider.... stupider...er, right?


----------



## louie888

I would if you could back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> I would if you could back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true.


I typically pound your vacant mind with facts and watch in amusement as you launch into your usual conspiracy theory addled tirade.

Use the search term: "number of rockets fired into israel". Tell us what you find.


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> "number of rockets fired into israel"


I did, all you find is the debunking of jewish lies. Go ahead now, pound your chest, claim jewish lies as truth, it seems to be working real well for you.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "number of rockets fired into israel"
> 
> 
> 
> I did, all you find is the debunking of jewish lies. Go ahead now, pound your chest, claim jewish lies as truth, it seems to be working real well for you.
Click to expand...

Tell us what you found. Your islamo-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> Tell us what you found. Your islamo-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?


Tell us what you found and back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true. 

Your jew-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?

Post actual proof.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found. Your islamo-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found and back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true.
> 
> Your jew-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> Post actual proof.
Click to expand...


I knew with a little poke and prod you would resort to plagiarizing my posts as you reel in defensive posturing. 

You are so predictable. I found sources to support about 11,000 rockets fired into Israel since 2005. 

Rocket Attacks on Israel From Gaza |

Tell us what you found. Post your source.

You feel stupider and stupider.... stupider...er, right?


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found. Your islamo-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found and back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true.
> 
> Your jew-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> Post actual proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew with a little poke and prod you would resort to plagiarizing my posts as you reel in defensive posturing.
> 
> You are so predictable. I found sources to support about 11,000 rockets fired into Israel since 2005.
> 
> Rocket Attacks on Israel From Gaza |
> 
> Tell us what you found. Post your source.
> 
> You feel stupider and stupider.... stupider...er, right?
Click to expand...

Ah, the idf blog. What could possibly go wrong believing anything they say on this subject?

Those numbers have been debunked already, and by honest jews.

This is why people constantly point and laugh at you. This is why I asked you to back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true. So I could point and laugh. You don't even understand the concept of proof. Thanks for playing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found. Your islamo-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found and back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true.
> 
> Your jew-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> Post actual proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew with a little poke and prod you would resort to plagiarizing my posts as you reel in defensive posturing.
> 
> You are so predictable. I found sources to support about 11,000 rockets fired into Israel since 2005.
> 
> Rocket Attacks on Israel From Gaza |
> 
> Tell us what you found. Post your source.
> 
> You feel stupider and stupider.... stupider...er, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the idf blog. What could possibly go wrong believing anything they say on this subject?
> 
> Those numbers have been debunked already, and by honest jews.
> 
> This is why people constantly point and laugh at you. This is why I asked you to back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true. So I could point and laugh. You don't even understand the concept of proof. Thanks for playing.
Click to expand...


Just shows us the source of the debunking and honest Jews 

Inquiring minds want to know


----------



## Sixties Fan

Oh, look, BBC debunking you Louie:

According to UN data, more than 4,800 rockets and 1,700 mortars were fired from Gaza towards Israel between 8 July and 26 August. Around 224 projectiles are believed to have struck Israeli residential areas.

(full article online)

Amnesty: Hamas rocket attacks amounted to war crimes - BBC News

(Now, when were all the other 10,000 rockets fired from Gaza?
Since which year? )


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found. Your islamo-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you found and back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true.
> 
> Your jew-clown dancing is amusing but your refusal to do anything but cower and clown dance makes you look rather cowardly and dishonest. What terms for your behavior would you use?
> 
> Post actual proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew with a little poke and prod you would resort to plagiarizing my posts as you reel in defensive posturing.
> 
> You are so predictable. I found sources to support about 11,000 rockets fired into Israel since 2005.
> 
> Rocket Attacks on Israel From Gaza |
> 
> Tell us what you found. Post your source.
> 
> You feel stupider and stupider.... stupider...er, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the idf blog. What could possibly go wrong believing anything they say on this subject?
> 
> Those numbers have been debunked already, and by honest jews.
> 
> This is why people constantly point and laugh at you. This is why I asked you to back that with actual proof instead of your usual pounding of your chest and declaring jewish lies to be true. So I could point and laugh. You don't even understand the concept of proof. Thanks for playing.
Click to expand...


You're so predictable, Habib. Your last series of islamo-clown dancing cutting and pasting has been your stuttering and mumbling as you carelessly plagiarized my comments.

Tell us what you found regarding the number of rockets fired into Israel. Include both rockets and mortar rounds. That will push the number I gave you even higher.

I'm hearing the sound of chickens clucking, Habib.  It must be you.

Post what you found. Supply a link.


----------



## louie888

You did that already, from the idf who constantly lie like you.



Sixties Fan said:


> Just shows us the source of the debunking and honest Jews



*In this brief study, I examine the many numbers cited by the Israeli military relating to Gaza rocket attacks into Israel.


To begin, Israeli spokespeople frequently remind the world that a million Israeli citizens are within range of Gaza rockets, twelve thousand of which have been fired into Israel in the last twelve years, inflicting thousands of injuries and several dead.


However, we are rarely told exactly how many people have been killed by these rocket attacks.


Counting the dead


Below is a list of all the fatalities of rocket and mortar attacks fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel in the entire history of these attacks. Throughout the years of rocket attacks into Israel, a total of 26 people have been killed altogether....
Dissecting IDF propaganda: The numbers behind the rocket attacks

Tools!*


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> You did that already, from the idf who constantly lie like you.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just shows us the source of the debunking and honest Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In this brief study, I examine the many numbers cited by the Israeli military relating to Gaza rocket attacks into Israel.
> 
> 
> To begin, Israeli spokespeople frequently remind the world that a million Israeli citizens are within range of Gaza rockets, twelve thousand of which have been fired into Israel in the last twelve years, inflicting thousands of injuries and several dead.
> 
> 
> However, we are rarely told exactly how many people have been killed by these rocket attacks.
> 
> 
> Counting the dead
> 
> 
> Below is a list of all the fatalities of rocket and mortar attacks fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel in the entire history of these attacks. Throughout the years of rocket attacks into Israel, a total of 26 people have been killed altogether....
> Dissecting IDF propaganda: The numbers behind the rocket attacks
> 
> Tools!*
Click to expand...


How many rockets, Habib?

You're still islamo-clown dancing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was in the news. Sorry you missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your legal opinion was in the news?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.
> 
> The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya.
> 
> What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your hysterical rants.
Click to expand...

It is not my fault that you are stupid. Don't blame me. I could post evidence until the cows come home and you will respond with stupid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your legal opinion was in the news?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.
> 
> The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya.
> 
> What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your hysterical rants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not my fault that you are stupid. Don't blame me. I could post evidence until the cows come home and you will respond with stupid.
Click to expand...

I suppose that's your way of islamo-clown dancing your way around defending your indefensible conspiracy theory.

Be sure to pick up after your cows.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian constitution requires that the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers be approved by parliament before they can be sworn in or assume office. The same as in the US where presidential appointments must have senate approval.
> 
> The "PA" that Abbas formed in the West Bank in 2007 never met this requirement. To my knowledge, none of the subsequent governments (The Prime Minister and his cabinet.) have met this requirement. It even states in Wikipedia that Salem Fayyed never met this requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya.
> 
> What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your hysterical rants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not my fault that you are stupid. Don't blame me. I could post evidence until the cows come home and you will respond with stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suppose that's your way of islamo-clown dancing your way around defending your indefensible conspiracy theory.
> 
> Be sure to pick up after your cows.
Click to expand...

You never want proof. You just want an excuse to post something stupid.

Thanks for proving my point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. Arab-Moslem terrorists don't obey the law. My world just turned upside down. I'm devastated... devastated I tell 'ya.
> 
> What's next, Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting a UN funded welfare fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your hysterical rants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not my fault that you are stupid. Don't blame me. I could post evidence until the cows come home and you will respond with stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suppose that's your way of islamo-clown dancing your way around defending your indefensible conspiracy theory.
> 
> Be sure to pick up after your cows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never want proof. You just want an excuse to post something stupid.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.
Click to expand...


Settle down there, chuckles. I don't have any desire to prompt you toward cutting and pasting dozens of YouTube videos as a part of your internet gee-had. Your conspiracy theories will find an audience with those vacant-minded types (you know who they are), so why not entertain yourselves in a more innocuous way. 


Now, about your cows...,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US paid for that job. They installed that government like they do all over the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your hysterical rants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not my fault that you are stupid. Don't blame me. I could post evidence until the cows come home and you will respond with stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suppose that's your way of islamo-clown dancing your way around defending your indefensible conspiracy theory.
> 
> Be sure to pick up after your cows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never want proof. You just want an excuse to post something stupid.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Settle down there, chuckles. I don't have any desire to prompt you toward cutting and pasting dozens of YouTube videos as a part of your internet gee-had. Your conspiracy theories will find an audience with those vacant-minded types (you know who they are), so why not entertain yourselves in a more innocuous way.
> 
> 
> Now, about your cows...,
Click to expand...

Too stupid for a response.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your hysterical rants.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not my fault that you are stupid. Don't blame me. I could post evidence until the cows come home and you will respond with stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suppose that's your way of islamo-clown dancing your way around defending your indefensible conspiracy theory.
> 
> Be sure to pick up after your cows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You never want proof. You just want an excuse to post something stupid.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Settle down there, chuckles. I don't have any desire to prompt you toward cutting and pasting dozens of YouTube videos as a part of your internet gee-had. Your conspiracy theories will find an audience with those vacant-minded types (you know who they are), so why not entertain yourselves in a more innocuous way.
> 
> 
> Now, about your cows...,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too stupid for a response.
Click to expand...


Well, in that case, just cut and paste a YouTube video. You will feel better about yourself... and appease your limitations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## Hollie

Friends of the Arab-Islamist Death Cult


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Proof that we need a stupid post button.



You can always cut and paste a YouTube video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can always cut and paste a YouTube video.
Click to expand...

Off topic trolling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can always cut and paste a YouTube video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic trolling.
Click to expand...


"Proof that we need a stupid post button". 

That was your post, chuckles.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian prisoner of conscience Bassem Tamimi speaks out *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Holding Israel Accountable From Bottom Up: What You Can Do | Interview with Rania Khalek *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Adele - Hello & فيروز - كيفك إنت ( cover by Noel kharman ) *


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization *

**


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

* This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Nina Turner Show: Call In Culture with Linda Sarsour *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **



Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?

She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?
> 
> She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_
Click to expand...

I don't understand your premise. If you are British and white, do you have to choose which one you are? Or, do both of those define who you are? Why would you have to choose?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?
> 
> She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?
> 
> She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_
Click to expand...


About the same distinction between Hispanic and Mexican, Argentinian, Colombian and Spanish heritage.  Hispanic is to Spanish as Arab is to Arabian.


----------



## Hollie

"Pal'istanian" history.


----------



## louie888

Hollie said:


> "Pal'istanian" history.


Wow, a youtube video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Saed Atshan


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?
> 
> She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> About the same distinction between Hispanic and Mexican, Argentinian, Colombian and Spanish heritage.  Hispanic is to Spanish as Arab is to Arabian.
Click to expand...


Are You trying to say that indigenous Americans didn't have their distinct culture? 
Or are You saying that Rap songs is this _'distinct Palestinian culture'_?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?
> 
> She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What is it another book on Arabic?

Let's listen to this "_distinct Palestinian language"_:

Wonder, did You hear Arabic or....Arabic?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * This is Palestine - Shadia Mansour*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any distinction between Arab and 'palestinian' identity?
> 
> She should be proud of her Arabian heritage, and stop pretending Rap songs ar_e 'palestinian culture'_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand your premise. If you are British and white, do you have to choose which one you are? Or, do both of those define who you are? Why would you have to choose?
Click to expand...


You too with this obsession of whites/blacks??
What a day for bds supporters...


But let's play.
Is Rap what You call _'white' _culture? Is it indigenous American culture?
I've been asking for a year for examples of some distinct Palestinian culture, and I got close to nothing.
Maybe because Arab tribes from Yemen and Saudi Arabia were just looking to make another colony of Arabia in Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here, happily, things are not entirely bleak. My research finds, and Polisar’s confirms, that about 20 percent of Palestinians are ready to live peaceably with the Jewish state. The challenge is to increase this number to 60 percent and more, so that this group at last can wrest control of the Palestinian national movement from rejectionists.

This process will be neither easy nor pleasant, for there is no avoiding the bitter crucible of defeat. The Palestinian Authority and Hamas will violently repress readiness to accommodate Israel, making the transition all the more painful. They will not, however, manage to reverse their populations’ demoralization and restiveness, or stop the movement favoring an end to hostilities. As the reality of defeat sinks in, new voices will inexorably be heard and will strengthen, calling for an end to the century-long catastrophe of rejectionism.

When Palestinians emerge from this ordeal, they will greatly benefit from throwing off the burden of anti-Zionism. Finally, they can begin to build their own polity, economy, society, and culture. Finally, they can learn from their remarkable neighbor. All will gain when this proud people turns its attention to creating the institutions of civil society and to teaching children skills rather than hatred.

(full article online)

The Israel-Palestinian Peace Process Has Been a Massive Charade


----------



## Sixties Fan

Christian convert Sandra Solomon from Ramallah recalls jubilation in Arab society during the intifada 'even when children were killed'; says prevalence of hateful education and vilification of Israel convinces her 'Palestinians don't want peace.'

(full article online)

Ynetnews News - Palestinian 'taught to hate Israel' turns Zionist


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

There's even a welfare funded museum dedicated to Pal'Istanian "culture".

It's as phony as a $3 dollar bill.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?

Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized. 
Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.

Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
_
Arab sheikh of Hebron






Saudi Arabia king


----------



## Sixties Fan

[And these.....are the Palestinians]





Yes, that is the Dome of the Rock - which most Palestinians use as symbolism for the Al Aqsa Mosque, their supposedly holy site.

Although the promotion has been out for at least a few days, I have not seen a single negative word about placing the supposedly third holiest site in Islam on a popcorn cup to sell mobile minutes.

I guess the Palestinian definition of "holy" is a bit different than others'. I cannot imagine the Kaaba in Saudi Arabia being used in such a fashion.

(full article online)

Third holiest site news: Al Aqsa "popcorn" ad used to sell mobile services ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
Click to expand...

Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry but this desperate attemt at portraying  kaffiyeh as distinctively_ 'Palestinian culture' _a joke_. _And the Rap song just emphasizes my point - distinct *Palestinian culture is a myth.
Didn't You hear her sing - "Kuffiyeh Arabie"??
*
And no - a football fan wearing his team scarf - is not stealing anything _"Palestinian"._
It's the Arabian tribes in Palestine that try to usurp the Jewish history, culture and homeland.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this desperate attemt at portraying  kaffiyeh as distinctively_ 'Palestinian culture' _a joke_. _And the Rap song just emphasizes my point - distinct *Palestinian culture is a myth.
> Didn't You hear her sing - "Kuffiyeh Arabie"??
> *
> And no - a football fan wearing his team scarf - is not stealing anything _"Palestinian"._
> It's the Arabian tribes in Palestine that try to usurp the Jewish history, culture and homeland.
Click to expand...


Are the Afghans stelaing _"Palestinian" _culture:






 Arabs in IRAN _"steal"_ this mythical distinct_ "Palestinian culture"_ too:





Palestinian culture, is nothing more than Arabian culture. As it is in every country in the ME, that's been invaded and colonized by Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Lubna Masarwa, Survivor of the Mavi Marmara Massacre Speaks Out.*

****


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this desperate attemt at portraying  kaffiyeh as distinctively_ 'Palestinian culture' _a joke_. _And the Rap song just emphasizes my point - distinct *Palestinian culture is a myth.
> Didn't You hear her sing - "Kuffiyeh Arabie"??
> *
> And no - a football fan wearing his team scarf - is not stealing anything _"Palestinian"._
> It's the Arabian tribes in Palestine that try to usurp the Jewish history, culture and homeland.
Click to expand...

And your point is?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[And this is the Palestinian Partner for Peace in negotiations with Israel]

"Article 31 outlaws any attempt to bypass website blocking or use any system or app to access a blocked website.
Articles 35 mandates the court to give the Public Prosecutor’s office the right to monitor and record online communications as well as obtaining any log-in data it deems necessary for investigations."

So not only does it chill expression, but it also punishes those who try to read things that are banned.

While it is a bit surprising to see AP publish this, a quick look through Google News and Bing News shows that only Voice of America and Fox News have published this as of this writing.

(full article online)

Abbas goes after anyone saying (or reading!) anything he doesn't like on social media ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [And this is the Palestinian Partner for Peace in negotiations with Israel]
> 
> "Article 31 outlaws any attempt to bypass website blocking or use any system or app to access a blocked website.
> Articles 35 mandates the court to give the Public Prosecutor’s office the right to monitor and record online communications as well as obtaining any log-in data it deems necessary for investigations."
> 
> So not only does it chill expression, but it also punishes those who try to read things that are banned.
> 
> While it is a bit surprising to see AP publish this, a quick look through Google News and Bing News shows that only Voice of America and Fox News have published this as of this writing.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas goes after anyone saying (or reading!) anything he doesn't like on social media ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


And Abbas is only there because the US wants him. The Palestinians don't.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this desperate attemt at portraying  kaffiyeh as distinctively_ 'Palestinian culture' _a joke_. _And the Rap song just emphasizes my point - distinct *Palestinian culture is a myth.
> Didn't You hear her sing - "Kuffiyeh Arabie"??
> *
> And no - a football fan wearing his team scarf - is not stealing anything _"Palestinian"._
> It's the Arabian tribes in Palestine that try to usurp the Jewish history, culture and homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your point is?
Click to expand...


Boy do You get confused when facing simple facts.
I think it's pretty easy to point to the distinct Indigenous American culture.
Yet when asking about Palestinian culture and identity - You give me Rap songs in Arabic, and kaffiyeh...or simply go into discussing Jewish culture.

So how can people who claim to be the natives, have no distinguishable culture, or language of the place? *They're simply occupiers of Jewish homeland. *And that's why the Arabs try so hard to usurp their heritage.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this desperate attemt at portraying  kaffiyeh as distinctively_ 'Palestinian culture' _a joke_. _And the Rap song just emphasizes my point - distinct *Palestinian culture is a myth.
> Didn't You hear her sing - "Kuffiyeh Arabie"??
> *
> And no - a football fan wearing his team scarf - is not stealing anything _"Palestinian"._
> It's the Arabian tribes in Palestine that try to usurp the Jewish history, culture and homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your point is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Boy do You get confused when facing simple facts.
> I think it's pretty easy to point to the distinct Indigenous American culture.
> Yet when asking about Palestinian culture and identity - You give me Rap songs in Arabic, and kaffiyeh...or simply go into discussing Jewish culture.
> 
> So how can people who claim to be the natives, have no distinguishable culture, or language of the place? *They're simply occupiers of Jewish homeland. *And that's why the Arabs try so hard to usurp their heritage.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, Israeli talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [And this is the Palestinian Partner for Peace in negotiations with Israel]
> 
> "Article 31 outlaws any attempt to bypass website blocking or use any system or app to access a blocked website.
> Articles 35 mandates the court to give the Public Prosecutor’s office the right to monitor and record online communications as well as obtaining any log-in data it deems necessary for investigations."
> 
> So not only does it chill expression, but it also punishes those who try to read things that are banned.
> 
> While it is a bit surprising to see AP publish this, a quick look through Google News and Bing News shows that only Voice of America and Fox News have published this as of this writing.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas goes after anyone saying (or reading!) anything he doesn't like on social media ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> And Abbas is only there because the US wants him. The Palestinians don't.
Click to expand...


Conspiracy theories always make a convenient excuse.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> * Lubna Masarwa, Survivor of the Mavi Marmara Massacre Speaks Out.*
> 
> ****



[From BBC, which is mostly anti-Israel, debunks the "massacre" which never happened]

Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.


The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the Mavi Marmara.
-------
“Jane Corbin and her team reduced the Israeli navy’s violent attack on six ships down to the attack on the Mavi Marmara.

(full article online)

BBC’s flotilla film slammed as ‘biased’

[There was no "Israeli navy's violent attack on six ships.  First five ships allowed inspection, had humanitarian aid to distribute and were allowed to move on.  Only the Mavi Marmara did not have any humanitarian aid on it.  What it had, it was Turkish nationals and others who had prepared themselves to attack the Israeli navy when they embarked to inspect that ship.

The videos taken by the passengers themselves on that ship show that no "massacre" or anything like it occurred.  What happened was that when the Navy boarded the ship, they were attacked and had to defend themselves.

If one Muslim at a time stopped lying about Jews and Israel, there would be peace and progress in that area as there should have been from 1920 on. ]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Lubna Masarwa, Survivor of the Mavi Marmara Massacre Speaks Out.*
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [From BBC, which is mostly anti-Israel, debunks the "massacre" which never happened]
> 
> Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.
> 
> 
> The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the Mavi Marmara.
> -------
> “Jane Corbin and her team reduced the Israeli navy’s violent attack on six ships down to the attack on the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> BBC’s flotilla film slammed as ‘biased’
> 
> [There was no "Israeli navy's violent attack on six ships.  First five ships allowed inspection, had humanitarian aid to distribute and were allowed to move on.  Only the Mavi Marmara did not have any humanitarian aid on it.  What it had, it was Turkish nationals and others who had prepared themselves to attack the Israeli navy when they embarked to inspect that ship.
> 
> The videos taken by the passengers themselves on that ship show that no "massacre" or anything like it occurred.  What happened was that when the Navy boarded the ship, they were attacked and had to defend themselves.
> 
> If one Muslim at a time stopped lying about Jews and Israel, there would be peace and progress in that area as there should have been from 1920 on. ]
Click to expand...

Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Lubna Masarwa, Survivor of the Mavi Marmara Massacre Speaks Out.*
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [From BBC, which is mostly anti-Israel, debunks the "massacre" which never happened]
> 
> Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.
> 
> 
> The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the Mavi Marmara.
> -------
> “Jane Corbin and her team reduced the Israeli navy’s violent attack on six ships down to the attack on the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> BBC’s flotilla film slammed as ‘biased’
> 
> [There was no "Israeli navy's violent attack on six ships.  First five ships allowed inspection, had humanitarian aid to distribute and were allowed to move on.  Only the Mavi Marmara did not have any humanitarian aid on it.  What it had, it was Turkish nationals and others who had prepared themselves to attack the Israeli navy when they embarked to inspect that ship.
> 
> The videos taken by the passengers themselves on that ship show that no "massacre" or anything like it occurred.  What happened was that when the Navy boarded the ship, they were attacked and had to defend themselves.
> 
> If one Muslim at a time stopped lying about Jews and Israel, there would be peace and progress in that area as there should have been from 1920 on. ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...


10,000 rockets fired from Gaza'istan since 2005. Islamic Death Cultists stabbing, shooting and running down Israelis in the street.

Yes. The israelis have to defend themselves from your Islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Lubna Masarwa, Survivor of the Mavi Marmara Massacre Speaks Out.*
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [From BBC, which is mostly anti-Israel, debunks the "massacre" which never happened]
> 
> Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.
> 
> 
> The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the Mavi Marmara.
> -------
> “Jane Corbin and her team reduced the Israeli navy’s violent attack on six ships down to the attack on the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> BBC’s flotilla film slammed as ‘biased’
> 
> [There was no "Israeli navy's violent attack on six ships.  First five ships allowed inspection, had humanitarian aid to distribute and were allowed to move on.  Only the Mavi Marmara did not have any humanitarian aid on it.  What it had, it was Turkish nationals and others who had prepared themselves to attack the Israeli navy when they embarked to inspect that ship.
> 
> The videos taken by the passengers themselves on that ship show that no "massacre" or anything like it occurred.  What happened was that when the Navy boarded the ship, they were attacked and had to defend themselves.
> 
> If one Muslim at a time stopped lying about Jews and Israel, there would be peace and progress in that area as there should have been from 1920 on. ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10,000 rockets fired from Gaza'istan since 2005. Islamic Death Cultists stabbing, shooting and running down Israelis in the street.
> 
> Yes. The israelis have to defend themselves from your Islamic terrorist heroes.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the old rocket canard again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Lubna Masarwa, Survivor of the Mavi Marmara Massacre Speaks Out.*
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [From BBC, which is mostly anti-Israel, debunks the "massacre" which never happened]
> 
> Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.
> 
> 
> The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the Mavi Marmara.
> -------
> “Jane Corbin and her team reduced the Israeli navy’s violent attack on six ships down to the attack on the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> BBC’s flotilla film slammed as ‘biased’
> 
> [There was no "Israeli navy's violent attack on six ships.  First five ships allowed inspection, had humanitarian aid to distribute and were allowed to move on.  Only the Mavi Marmara did not have any humanitarian aid on it.  What it had, it was Turkish nationals and others who had prepared themselves to attack the Israeli navy when they embarked to inspect that ship.
> 
> The videos taken by the passengers themselves on that ship show that no "massacre" or anything like it occurred.  What happened was that when the Navy boarded the ship, they were attacked and had to defend themselves.
> 
> If one Muslim at a time stopped lying about Jews and Israel, there would be peace and progress in that area as there should have been from 1920 on. ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10,000 rockets fired from Gaza'istan since 2005. Islamic Death Cultists stabbing, shooting and running down Israelis in the street.
> 
> Yes. The israelis have to defend themselves from your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the old rocket canard again.
Click to expand...


Yep. What s shame for islamics that Israel chooses to respond to acts of war by Islamic terrorists. 

Not yo worry. You're safe, waging your _gee-had of none _from behind your infidel keyboard.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now anybody wearing a soccer scarf is "_stealing Palestinian culture_?
> 
> Give me a break. The kafiyeh is worn in every country in the ME that Arabian tribes have colonized.
> Also falafel is_ Palestinian _culture?? Maybe shawarma too? What a scam.
> 
> Maybe King of Saudi Arabia as well "_stole it from Palestinians"?
> _
> Arab sheikh of Hebron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia king
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Israelis want to wear it? David Whorowitz calls it a terrorist scarf.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this desperate attemt at portraying  kaffiyeh as distinctively_ 'Palestinian culture' _a joke_. _And the Rap song just emphasizes my point - distinct *Palestinian culture is a myth.
> Didn't You hear her sing - "Kuffiyeh Arabie"??
> *
> And no - a football fan wearing his team scarf - is not stealing anything _"Palestinian"._
> It's the Arabian tribes in Palestine that try to usurp the Jewish history, culture and homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your point is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Boy do You get confused when facing simple facts.
> I think it's pretty easy to point to the distinct Indigenous American culture.
> Yet when asking about Palestinian culture and identity - You give me Rap songs in Arabic, and kaffiyeh...or simply go into discussing Jewish culture.
> 
> So how can people who claim to be the natives, have no distinguishable culture, or language of the place? *They're simply occupiers of Jewish homeland. *And that's why the Arabs try so hard to usurp their heritage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


So what, don't Israelis have a say in his conflict?
*Usual Palestinian tactic to silence people.
*

You're not aginst occupation or ethnic cleansing but all for it.
It's a Jewish homeland, yet You and the Arab occupiers demand a Jew free Palestine.

Who's talking points do You have, Hamas' or their Qatari handlers??


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Important Highlights from Malaka Mohammed about Palestine *

**


----------



## Hollie

Important highlights from the _Great Satan_™ about Islamic terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Important Highlights from Malaka Mohammed about Palestine *
> 
> **



["But I tell you....any and all criticism of me and what I say about Israel is Islamophobia.  It is.  I am telling you.....  ]

Anti-Semitism investigated at the University of Exeter | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Sixties Fan

[This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]

This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.

And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.

During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.

“This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”

(full article online)

Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe


----------



## Sixties Fan

[But....these are the Palestinian leaders]

Military wing of terrorist group Hamas presents political leadership with dramatic proposal that would create governmental vacuum in Gaza Strip; according to proposal, Hamas will relinquish civilian control, thereby ruling through military rule alone; proposal's goal seemingly to pressure PA Pres. Abbas to lift sanctions and avoid military escalation.

(full article online)

Ynetnews News - Hamas considering replacing its civilian rule in Gaza with military rule in ...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Important Highlights from Malaka Mohammed about Palestine *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ["But I tell you....any and all criticism of me and what I say about Israel is Islamophobia.  It is.  I am telling you.....  ]
> 
> Anti-Semitism investigated at the University of Exeter | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...

Instead of just a snippet, let's watch the entire interview.


This is the same group of Zionist assholes making the same bogus claims of antiselitism. They pull that same shit everywhere.


----------



## Hollie

Yep, just another angry, Jew-hating, kuffar loathing Islamic. 





She recently led campus protests against U.S. President Donald Trump, but it is her comments about Israel that have most concerned Jewish students, with Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) highlighting past comments, such as a tweet to mark Holocaust Memorial Day, reading: “The shadow of the Holocaust continues to fall over us from the continuous Israeli occupation of Palestine to the election of Trump”.


Student who used ‘deeply anti-Semitic rhetoric’ elected at Exeter Uni


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Important Highlights from Malaka Mohammed about Palestine *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ["But I tell you....any and all criticism of me and what I say about Israel is Islamophobia.  It is.  I am telling you.....  ]
> 
> Anti-Semitism investigated at the University of Exeter | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Instead of just a snippet, let's watch the entire interview.
> 
> 
> This is the same group of Zionist assholes making the same bogus claims of antiselitism. They pull that same shit everywhere.
Click to expand...


Islamophobia   YES

Antisemitism   NO


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Yep, just another angry, Jew-hating, kuffar loathing Islamic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She recently led campus protests against U.S. President Donald Trump, but it is her comments about Israel that have most concerned Jewish students, with Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) highlighting past comments, such as a tweet to mark Holocaust Memorial Day, reading: “The shadow of the Holocaust continues to fall over us from the continuous Israeli occupation of Palestine to the election of Trump”.
> 
> 
> Student who used ‘deeply anti-Semitic rhetoric’ elected at Exeter Uni





Hollie said:


> Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA)


Like I say, the same group of Zionist assholes making the same bogus claims of antiselitism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just another angry, Jew-hating, kuffar loathing Islamic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She recently led campus protests against U.S. President Donald Trump, but it is her comments about Israel that have most concerned Jewish students, with Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) highlighting past comments, such as a tweet to mark Holocaust Memorial Day, reading: “The shadow of the Holocaust continues to fall over us from the continuous Israeli occupation of Palestine to the election of Trump”.
> 
> 
> Student who used ‘deeply anti-Semitic rhetoric’ elected at Exeter Uni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I say, the same group of Zionist assholes making the same bogus claims of antiselitism.
Click to expand...


But you never prove anything.  You only make allegations of it.

Come on Tin man.  Prove it.
Just once.
Prove the "bogusness" of the Zionist claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe


Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
  
Now *that* is funny.

Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?

There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
Click to expand...


Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
Click to expand...


Do you have a lawyer to represent you over all the slanderous allegations you just posted in a public forum?

Are the "Palestinians" doing business freely via Egypt or are they subservient to Egypt?  How about to Jordan?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just another angry, Jew-hating, kuffar loathing Islamic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She recently led campus protests against U.S. President Donald Trump, but it is her comments about Israel that have most concerned Jewish students, with Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) highlighting past comments, such as a tweet to mark Holocaust Memorial Day, reading: “The shadow of the Holocaust continues to fall over us from the continuous Israeli occupation of Palestine to the election of Trump”.
> 
> 
> Student who used ‘deeply anti-Semitic rhetoric’ elected at Exeter Uni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I say, the same group of Zionist assholes making the same bogus claims of antiselitism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you never prove anything.  You only make allegations of it.
> 
> Come on Tin man.  Prove it.
> Just once.
> Prove the "bogusness" of the Zionist claims.
Click to expand...

Same group of assholes trying to stifle free speech.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.
Click to expand...

Off topic troll.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic troll.
Click to expand...


No reason to get snippy with me, chuckles. Your conspiracy theories presented as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem failures are of your own making.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No reason to get snippy with me, chuckles. Your conspiracy theories presented as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem failures are of your own making.
Click to expand...

Don't just hit and run like a troll. Show where my information is incorrect.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [This should be the Arab Palestinians, Israel should be negotiating a Peace Treaty with]
> 
> This July was a month full of depressing news regarding diplomacy among Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
> 
> And yet, far from the headlines, cooperation across these populations was thriving at the Galilee International Management Institute (GIMI) in Nahalal, a city in northern Israel.
> 
> During July alone, GIMI gave a training course to Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli olive-oil producers, taught farmers from Palestinian Authority territories to grow avocados for export, and began planning a tele-course for Gazan computer engineers meant to lead to remote employment at Israeli companies.
> 
> “This is nothing new for us,” says GIMI President Joseph “Yossie” Shevel. “We’ve been cooperating with the Palestinians for the last 30 years.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Institute Trains Palestinian Farmers to Grow Avocados for Export to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No reason to get snippy with me, chuckles. Your conspiracy theories presented as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem failures are of your own making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't just hit and run like a troll. Show where my information is incorrect.
Click to expand...


What information would that be, chuckles?


----------



## Hollie

STOP FUNDING PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS

*July 25, 2017*
Mr. Speaker, last Friday night, an Israeli family sat down for Shabbat dinner to celebrate the birth of a new grandchild, but a 19- year-old Palestinian terrorist put an end to this joyous occasion. 

The terrorist brutally attacked the Salomon family with a large knife. Pictures of the family’s home show a white floor stained red with the blood of the innocents. 

A father and two of his children were murdered that night. Upon learning of the tragic event, Palestinians in Gaza took to the streets to sing, dance, and celebrate. No Palestinian leader has even condemned this grizzly attack. 

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, this is our U.S. tax dollars at work. The millions the United States sends to the Palestinians are funneled to terrorists and their families through the socalled martyrs fund. The leaders we prop up glorify terrorists and incite violence. 

The American people refuse to continue this insanity. We refuse to continue enabling terror against the Israeli people. 

And that is just the way it is. 


STOP FUNDING PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like Israel is going to teach the Palestinians about olives.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> Avocados? Israel steals Palestinian water and land. So how is that going to work? Also, would the Palestinians be allowed to export directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> There are already software companies in the West Bank and Gaza. They have some problems. Israel restricts internet speed to Palestine. Israeli banking restrictions make it difficult to get paid for their work. Again, would the Palestinians be able to access their customers directly, or would they be subservient to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No reason to get snippy with me, chuckles. Your conspiracy theories presented as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem failures are of your own making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't just hit and run like a troll. Show where my information is incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What information would that be, chuckles?
Click to expand...

The information you usually ignore and go on to slime my posts


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Another whining, conspiracy theory addled mess.
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No reason to get snippy with me, chuckles. Your conspiracy theories presented as a way to excuse Arab-Moslem failures are of your own making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't just hit and run like a troll. Show where my information is incorrect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What information would that be, chuckles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The information you usually ignore and go on to slime my posts
Click to expand...


No one is better at sliming your attempts at posting than you are... chuckles.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh*


----------



## Hollie

Let's hope infidel justice will find common cause among many more western nations which fund the vast majority of the Islamic terrorist franchises operating in the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan. 



*Senate panel approves bill to suspend US aid to Palestinians*

Senate panel approves bill to suspend US aid to Palestinians


A Senate committee approved legislation Thursday that would suspend U.S. financial assistance to the Palestinian Authority until it ends what lawmakers said is a long-standing practice of rewarding Palestinians who kill Americans and Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Yousef Munayyer*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Karma Nabulsi - The 'Treasure' of Revolutions: A Tradition of Thought and Practice. *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Opening for the censored exhibit, "A Child's View From Gaza," in the courtyard outside of MOCHA September 24, 2011. Despite MOCHA's refusal to show the art of Palestinian children, the exhibit opened and is showing at 917 Washington St., Oakland, CA.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
Click to expand...


What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
This is not the Holocaust denier thread


----------



## Hugo Furst

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
Click to expand...


what does a boy dying in a swimming pool have to do with the topic?


----------



## Sixties Fan

WillHaftawaite said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what does a boy dying in a swimming pool have to do with the topic?
Click to expand...


The answer is in what I wrote above the video.  
Arabs like to call Gaza a concentration camp.  What concentration camps in the world have luxurious swimming pools?

THAT, is who the Palestinians are.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
Click to expand...


It demonstrates that you are using Nazi techniques to downplay the oppression of the Palestinian people of Gaza.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what does a boy dying in a swimming pool have to do with the topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The answer is in what I wrote above the video.
> Arabs like to call Gaza a concentration camp.  What concentration camps in the world have luxurious swimming pools?
> 
> THAT, is who the Palestinians are.
Click to expand...


This is what the Israelis are you disgusting piece of crap.  How many swimming pools do you see you prick?


----------



## Sixties Fan

WillHaftawaite said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what does a boy dying in a swimming pool have to do with the topic?
Click to expand...





WillHaftawaite said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what does a boy dying in a swimming pool have to do with the topic?
Click to expand...


The article was about how the Palestinians say one thing but the reality they live in is another.

You deleted a post which did have its place on this thread.  I am fine with it.   Thanks.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It demonstrates that you are using Nazi techniques to downplay the oppression of the Palestinian people of Gaza.
Click to expand...


The oppression of the Arabs-Moslems in your invented "country of Pal'Istan" by the Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting the UNRWA welfare fraud is an issue that Arabs-Moslems need to take accountability for.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what does a boy dying in a swimming pool have to do with the topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The answer is in what I wrote above the video.
> Arabs like to call Gaza a concentration camp.  What concentration camps in the world have luxurious swimming pools?
> 
> THAT, is who the Palestinians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is what the Israelis are you disgusting piece of crap.  How many swimming pools do you see you prick?
Click to expand...


Let that be a lesson to you Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers that acts of war committed by Islamic terrorists carries consequences. 

So.... what's the big deal with some cracked windows and a few broken screen doors? The UNRWA welfare fraud will pay for it.


----------



## rylah

*An Najada Village Profile*

Location and Physical Characteristics
An Najada is a small village in the Yatta area. It is located 19 km southeast of Hebron city in the southern part of the West Bank. An Najada is bordered by the Dead Sea to the East, Arab As Saryea' (Bedouins) to the North, Yatta city lands to the West, and 1949 Armistice Line (Green Line) to the South (See map 1).

History
The history of An Najada village dates back to the Ottoman and British periods of rule, the village is related to *a tribe which migrated from Najed Area in the Arabian Peninsula to Palestine and settled in the Yatta area. The village name is derived from the name of a tribe name "An Najada"*. For a long time two tribes were included in the locality, Al Baraqa ( ةѧالبراق (and Al Qureb .(القرب) 

http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/An Najada_pro.pdf


----------



## montelatici

Jaffa was the largest city in historic Palestine during the years of the British mandate, with a population of more than 80,000 Palestinians in addition to the 40,000 persons living in the towns and villages in its immediate vicinity. In the period between the UN Partition resolution (UNGA 181) of 29 November 1947, and the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel, Zionist military forces displaced 95 percent of Jaffa’s indigenous Arab Palestinian population. Jaffa’s refugees accounted for 15 percent of Palestinian refugees in that fateful year, and today they are dispersed across the globe, still banned from returning by the state responsible for their displacement.

Jaffa was the epicenter of the Palestinian economy before the 1948 Nakba. Beginning in the early 19th century, the people of Jaffa had cultivated citrus groves, particularly oranges, on their land. International demand for Jaffa oranges propelled the city onto the world stage, earning the city an important place in the global economy. By the 1930s, Jaffa was exporting tens of millions of citrus crates to the rest of the world, which provided thousands of jobs for the people of the city and its environs, and linking them to the major commercial centers of the Mediterranean coast and the European continent.

With the success of its citrus exports, the city witnessed the emergence and growth of various related economic sectors, from banks to land and sea transportation enterprises to import and export firms, and many others. As the city grew, Jaffa’s entrepreneurs began to develop local industrial production with the opening of metal-work factories, and others producing glass, ice, cigarettes, textiles, sweets, transportation-related equipment, mineral and carbonated water, and various foodstuffs, among others.

In addition to commerce and industry, a third major pillar of Jaffa’s economy in the mandate years was tourism. Tens of thousands of tourists and pilgrims visited the historic city every year, both for its sites of historical and religious significance, its beautiful buildings, and the Christian holy sites scattered throughout the city. As Jaffa’s tourism industry grew, so too did its communications infrastructure, and the transportation network connecting it to the rest of Palestine and the Arab world. More investments and jobs were also created for Jaffa’s residents through the increasing number of hotels, transportation companies, and the growing number of tourism-related services.

Jaffa was also the cultural capital of Palestine, being home to tens of the most important newspapers and publication houses in the country, including the dailies _Filastin_ and _al-Difa’_. The most important and ornate cinemas were in Jaffa, as were tens of athletics clubs and cultural societies. The headquarters of some of these societies, like the Orthodox Club and the Islamic Club, have themselves become historic sites still testifying to the city’s cultural history. During the Second World War, the British Mandate authorities moved the headquarters of the Near East Radio broadcast studios to Jaffa, the studios becoming a cultural hub in the city from 1941 to 1948. With the growing cultural importance of Jaffa came increasing cultural exchange and interconnection with the main cultural centers in the region such as Cairo and Beirut, which further established the city as a cultural minaret in the region — lovingly dubbed the Bride of the Sea.

The story of Jaffa’s ongoing Nakba is the story of the transformation of this thriving modern urban center into a marginalized neighborhood suffering from poverty, discrimination, gentrification, crime and demolition since the initial wave of mass expulsion in 1948 to the present day.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> *An Najada Village Profile*
> 
> Location and Physical Characteristics
> An Najada is a small village in the Yatta area. It is located 19 km southeast of Hebron city in the southern part of the West Bank. An Najada is bordered by the Dead Sea to the East, Arab As Saryea' (Bedouins) to the North, Yatta city lands to the West, and 1949 Armistice Line (Green Line) to the South (See map 1).
> 
> History
> The history of An Najada village dates back to the Ottoman and British periods of rule, the village is related to *a tribe which migrated from Najed Area in the Arabian Peninsula to Palestine and settled in the Yatta area. The village name is derived from the name of a tribe name "An Najada"*. For a long time two tribes were included in the locality, Al Baraqa ( ةѧالبراق (and Al Qureb .(القرب)
> 
> http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/An Najada_pro.pdf



Still with the propaganda.  Do you think anyone believes your propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It demonstrates that you are using Nazi techniques to downplay the oppression of the Palestinian people of Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The oppression of the Arabs-Moslems in your invented "country of Pal'Istan" by the Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting the UNRWA welfare fraud is an issue that Arabs-Moslems need to take accountability for.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> in your invented "country of Pal'Istan"


Link?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *An Najada Village Profile*
> 
> Location and Physical Characteristics
> An Najada is a small village in the Yatta area. It is located 19 km southeast of Hebron city in the southern part of the West Bank. An Najada is bordered by the Dead Sea to the East, Arab As Saryea' (Bedouins) to the North, Yatta city lands to the West, and 1949 Armistice Line (Green Line) to the South (See map 1).
> 
> History
> The history of An Najada village dates back to the Ottoman and British periods of rule, the village is related to *a tribe which migrated from Najed Area in the Arabian Peninsula to Palestine and settled in the Yatta area. The village name is derived from the name of a tribe name "An Najada"*. For a long time two tribes were included in the locality, Al Baraqa ( ةѧالبراق (and Al Qureb .(القرب)
> 
> http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/An Najada_pro.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still with the propaganda.  Do you think anyone believes your propaganda.
Click to expand...


Just according to the Palestinian Institute:
The Applied Research Institute Jerusalem - الصفحة الرئيسية


*Beit Mirsim Village Profile*

Location and Physical Characteristics
Beit Mirsim is a village in the Dura area which is located 30 kilometers southwest of the city of Hebron in the southern part of West Bank. It is bordered by Beit ar Rush al Fauqa to the east and north, and Al Burj and the Segregation Wall to the west, and the south (See Map 1).

History
The name Beit Mirsim derives from the Canaanite word “Qarya Safar” and “Beir sefer” which means an educational city. The village has also had another two names in past, these were: Beit Sena, (which means Palm Branch), and ‘Dbeer’. *The history of the village dates back to ancient Arab tribes who migrated from the Arabian Peninsula and settled in the land of Palestine, most of the families settled in the village during the Islamic and Ottoman period*, and this can be proved by the ‘Place of Handal’ (a building similar to a mosque). Similarly some of the inhabitants of the village are also descendents of people expelled from Israel in 1949 (predominately from Mrat and Al Za’aq villages).

http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Beit Mirsim_pr_en.pdf


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Historic Palestine?  Does the Hebrew Scriptures, Egypt and others refer to that area or city as Historical Palestine? And no reference in 5000 years to any Palestinians.  Why?  Odd how one mentions Jaffa since the British Mandate, but how about before that?  ]

*Bronze Age[edit]*
Further information: The Taking of Joppa
The natural harbour of Jaffa has been in use since the Bronze Age.

Jaffa is mentioned in an Ancient Egyptian letter from 1440 BCE, glorifying its conquest by Pharaoh Thutmose III, whose general, Djehuty hid armed Egyptian warriors in large baskets and sent the baskets as a present to the Canaanite city's governor.

The city is also mentioned in the Amarna letters under its Egyptian name _Ya-Pho_, ( _Ya-Pu, EA 296, l.33_). The city was under Egyptian rule until around 800 BCE.

*Iron Age[edit]*
Jaffa is mentioned four times in the Hebrew Bible, as a city opposite the territory given to the Hebrew Tribe of Dan (Book of Joshua 19:46), as port-of-entry for the cedars of Lebanon for Solomon's Temple (2 Chronicles 2:16), as the place whence the prophet Jonah embarked for Tarshish (Book of Jonah 1:3) and again as port-of-entry for the cedars of Lebanon for the Second Temple of Jerusalem (Book of Ezra 3:7). Jaffa is mentioned in the Book of Joshua as the territorial border of the Tribe of Dan, hence the modern term "Gush Dan" for the center of the coastal plain. The tribe of Dan did not manage to dislocate the Philistines from Jaffa, but many descendants of Dan lived along the coast and earned their living from shipmaking and sailing. In the "Song of Deborah" the prophetess asks: "דן למה יגור אוניות": "Why doth Dan dwell in ships?"[4]

After Canaanite and Philistine dominion, King David and his son King Solomon conquered Jaffa and used its port to bring the cedars used in the construction of the First Temple from Tyre.
---------
[Muslim time]

Saladin conquered Jaffa in 1187. The city surrendered to King Richard the Lionheart on 10 September 1191, three days after the Battle of Arsuf. Despite efforts by Saladin to reoccupy the city in July 1192 (Battle of Jaffa) the city remained in the hands of the Crusaders. On 2 September 1192, the Treaty of Jaffa was formally signed, guaranteeing a three-year truce between the two armies. Frederick II fortified the castle of Jaffa and had two inscriptions carved into city wall, one Latin and the other Arabic. The inscription, deciphered in 2011, describes him as the "Holy Roman Emperor" and bears the date "1229 of the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus the Messiah."[9] In 1268, Jaffa was conquered by Egyptian Mamluks, led by Baibars.




Jaffa in the early 17th century
The traveller Jean Cotwyk (Cotovicus) described Jaffa as a heap of ruins when he visited in 1598.[10][11]

(full article online)

Jaffa - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Jaffa was the largest city in historic Palestine during the years of the British mandate, with a population of more than 80,000 Palestinians in addition to the 40,000 persons living in the towns and villages in its immediate vicinity. In the period between the UN Partition resolution (UNGA 181) of 29 November 1947, and the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel, Zionist military forces displaced 95 percent of Jaffa’s indigenous Arab Palestinian population. Jaffa’s refugees accounted for 15 percent of Palestinian refugees in that fateful year, and today they are dispersed across the globe, still banned from returning by the state responsible for their displacement.
> 
> Jaffa was the epicenter of the Palestinian economy before the 1948 Nakba. Beginning in the early 19th century, the people of Jaffa had cultivated citrus groves, particularly oranges, on their land. International demand for Jaffa oranges propelled the city onto the world stage, earning the city an important place in the global economy. By the 1930s, Jaffa was exporting tens of millions of citrus crates to the rest of the world, which provided thousands of jobs for the people of the city and its environs, and linking them to the major commercial centers of the Mediterranean coast and the European continent.
> 
> With the success of its citrus exports, the city witnessed the emergence and growth of various related economic sectors, from banks to land and sea transportation enterprises to import and export firms, and many others. As the city grew, Jaffa’s entrepreneurs began to develop local industrial production with the opening of metal-work factories, and others producing glass, ice, cigarettes, textiles, sweets, transportation-related equipment, mineral and carbonated water, and various foodstuffs, among others.
> 
> In addition to commerce and industry, a third major pillar of Jaffa’s economy in the mandate years was tourism. Tens of thousands of tourists and pilgrims visited the historic city every year, both for its sites of historical and religious significance, its beautiful buildings, and the Christian holy sites scattered throughout the city. As Jaffa’s tourism industry grew, so too did its communications infrastructure, and the transportation network connecting it to the rest of Palestine and the Arab world. More investments and jobs were also created for Jaffa’s residents through the increasing number of hotels, transportation companies, and the growing number of tourism-related services.
> 
> Jaffa was also the cultural capital of Palestine, being home to tens of the most important newspapers and publication houses in the country, including the dailies _Filastin_ and _al-Difa’_. The most important and ornate cinemas were in Jaffa, as were tens of athletics clubs and cultural societies. The headquarters of some of these societies, like the Orthodox Club and the Islamic Club, have themselves become historic sites still testifying to the city’s cultural history. During the Second World War, the British Mandate authorities moved the headquarters of the Near East Radio broadcast studios to Jaffa, the studios becoming a cultural hub in the city from 1941 to 1948. With the growing cultural importance of Jaffa came increasing cultural exchange and interconnection with the main cultural centers in the region such as Cairo and Beirut, which further established the city as a cultural minaret in the region — lovingly dubbed the Bride of the Sea.
> 
> The story of Jaffa’s ongoing Nakba is the story of the transformation of this thriving modern urban center into a marginalized neighborhood suffering from poverty, discrimination, gentrification, crime and demolition since the initial wave of mass expulsion in 1948 to the present day.



I think The _Monty_ needs to be reminded that cutting and pasting articles implies that those articles be properly attributed.

The Electronic Gee-had?

Jaffa: from eminence to ethnic cleansing


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A concentration camp with swimming pools? ]
> 
> A 5-year old boy drowned in the Gaza Strip in a swimming pool on Saturday.
> 
> In other news, Gaza has lots of swimming pools.
> 
> Here are some that are in Gaza City itself all from a Facebook page of Gaza City swimming pools.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In other news, Gaza has swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How utterly braindead, ignorant or devious one must be to even think about using the Auschwitz swimming pool as a PR trick in the name of "revisionism"?"
> 
> Holocaust Controversies: The dumbest Holocaust denial icon: the Auschwitz swimming pool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does your link have to do with the subject of this thread?
> This is not the Holocaust denier thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It demonstrates that you are using Nazi techniques to downplay the oppression of the Palestinian people of Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The oppression of the Arabs-Moslems in your invented "country of Pal'Istan" by the Arab-Moslem terrorists exploiting the UNRWA welfare fraud is an issue that Arabs-Moslems need to take accountability for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> in your invented "country of Pal'Istan"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Yes, link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Rafah'farians - "where's my welfare check"?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanans". The art of depravity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!' *

**


----------



## rylah

*Kafr ad Dik Town Profile*

Location and Physical Characteristics
Rafat is a Palestinian village in the Salfit Governorate located 13 km west of Salfit City. It is bordered by Kafr ad Dik village to the east, Deir Ballut to the south, Kafr Qasem (of 1948 lands) to the west, and Az Zawiya town to the north (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

History
Kafr ad Dik town is said to be named after a man called “Ad Dik” who is believed to have come from the Arabian Peninsula and lived in the Jordan Valley area for a period of time before he moved to the town and settled in it. Prior re to his arrival the region was called “Kafir Ben Muhanna.” *The town was established in 1700 with its residents descending from Arab al Masa‟id tribe from the Arabian Peninsula (Kafr ad Dik Municipality, 2012).*

http://vprofile.arij.org/salfit/pdfs/vprofile/Kafr ad Dik_tp_en.pdf

*




*


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Apartheid


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanans". The art of depravity.


The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.

You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Vivien Sansour*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanans". The art of depravity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


They simply changed the way they send their young islamo-bots to die via suicide / mass murder. 

You need to update the number of dead islamo- bodies you can parade around.


----------



## Hollie

Adjusting the terrain used by islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Adjusting the terrain used by islamic terrorists.


Mostly civilians including five children.

Israel attacking civilians again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adjusting the terrain used by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly civilians including five children.
> 
> Israel attacking civilians again.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorists complaining about their perceived entitlement. 

Acts of war by islamic terrorists carry consequences. How lucky for you that you have islamo-bodies to parade around like trophies.

You Death Cultists truly are a retrograde lot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cultists - perpetually angry


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

No gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Not so speedy....


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Funny.

Pallywood Production Studios helping islamic terrorist parents exploit children. 

What an awful sickness - to breed litters of disposable children.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

*Turmus’ayya Town Profile*

*History *
Turmus'ayya town was originally named „Thormasia‟. The word may be a combination of three shorter words: Tar, Masha, and Ayya. Tar is a distortion of the word „Tawr‟ („mountain‟), Masha is the remains of grapes after being squeezed, and Ayya is from the word „Awi‟, meaning ruins (Al Dabbagh, 1991). *The town‟s residents are originally Majaziyoon from the Murra tribe*, descended from inhabitants of Al Batani and Al Jib villages (Turmus‟ayya Municipality, 2011).

http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/pdfs/vprofile/Turmus'ayya_tp_en.pdf







The *Al Murrah* (Arabic: قبيلة آل مرة‎‎)* is a noble or a sharif Arab tribe descended from the well-known Banu Yam tribe*. The members of the Al Murrah end their names with "Al Murry" also spelled "Al Marri" and "Al Masarri" to correspond to the Arabic pronunciation. *They reside in countries such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Bahrain and Wadi Amad of Yemen. Historically, Al Murrah was a tribe of camel-herding nomads, who controlled and travelled through a vast area of the Arabian Peninsula.*

There's a saying in Saudi Arabia, Fi al Sama barqiyah, Fi al ard Marriyah, which means, "In the sky the telegraph; on the ground Al Murrah." The saying, in couplet form, pays a subtle tribute to the tribe of nomads which more than any other has given birth—and considerable substance—to the colorful image of the desert Bedouins: *Al Murrah, one of the largest and most important tribes of the country*.[1]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Truth and Deception: Calling Out Linda Sarsour on Al Aqsa | Clarion Project


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Truth and Deception: Calling Out Linda Sarsour on Al Aqsa | Clarion Project


So you post a propaganda site.

Like Linda says: If nobody attacks you, you are not doing a good job.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truth and Deception: Calling Out Linda Sarsour on Al Aqsa | Clarion Project
> 
> 
> 
> So you post a propaganda site.
> 
> Like Linda says: If nobody attacks you, you are not doing a good job.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel *

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem unwanted children.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Essentially, the only Muslim families who can claim to have been in Palestine 2000 years ago were converts from Judaism or Christianity. By far most of them come from other areas of the Middle East or Europe.

I have looked at this topic a number of times over the years, and here is my latest list of 100 Palestinian families and their origins (although I've seen some contradictory origins listed for some families):

(full article online)

The only indigenous Palestinian Arab families, it seems, are descended from Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lamis Deek


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> Essentially, the only Muslim families who can claim to have been in Palestine 2000 years ago were converts from Judaism or Christianity. By far most of them come from other areas of the Middle East or Europe.
> 
> I have looked at this topic a number of times over the years, and here is my latest list of 100 Palestinian families and their origins (although I've seen some contradictory origins listed for some families):
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The only indigenous Palestinian Arab families, it seems, are descended from Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Elder of Ziyon.  Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## Sixties Fan

The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
(full article online)

UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, the only Muslim families who can claim to have been in Palestine 2000 years ago were converts from Judaism or Christianity. By far most of them come from other areas of the Middle East or Europe.
> 
> I have looked at this topic a number of times over the years, and here is my latest list of 100 Palestinian families and their origins (although I've seen some contradictory origins listed for some families):
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The only indigenous Palestinian Arab families, it seems, are descended from Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elder of Ziyon.  Hahahahahahaha!
Click to expand...


Monte truly believes that if he laughs it off, the facts will go away.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
> But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
> This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
> The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
> Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
> Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity


You're being misinformed.


----------



## rylah

Salfit City Profile 

*Location and Physical Characteristics *
Salfit city, which includes Khirbet Qeis (Qeis ruins) within its borders, is the only city in Salfit Governorate. It is bordered by Al Lubban ash Sharqiya (in Ramallah Governorate) and Iskaka to its east, Bani Zeid ash Sharqiya and „Ammuriyya (in Ramallah Governorate) to the south, Farkha and Bruqin villages to its west, and Haris, Kifl Haris and Marda villages to its north (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

*History *
Salfit city is known for its cultivation of grape and fig vines and its ancient wine presses which are used in the present day. The word “Salfit” consists of two syllables; “Sal” meaning baskets and “Fit” meaning grapes. The city was established in the Canaanite era (15th century AD), with its residents descending from the Bani Nimra family, originating from East Jordan. The city is also home to members of the *Al Hawatra family descending from the prophet Al Abbas.** They left Al Hijaz in Saudi Arabia, travelled through to East Jordan, then moved to the neighboring village of Farkha before residing in Salfit city, which includes Khirbet Qeis locality (Salfit Municipality, 2012).*
http://vprofile.arij.org/salfit/pdfs/vprofile/Salfit_cp_en.pdf


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, the only Muslim families who can claim to have been in Palestine 2000 years ago were converts from Judaism or Christianity. By far most of them come from other areas of the Middle East or Europe.
> 
> I have looked at this topic a number of times over the years, and here is my latest list of 100 Palestinian families and their origins (although I've seen some contradictory origins listed for some families):
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The only indigenous Palestinian Arab families, it seems, are descended from Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elder of Ziyon.  Hahahahahahaha!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Monte truly believes that if he laughs it off, the facts will go away.
Click to expand...


Facts from a propaganda site?  You have to be kidding.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
> But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
> This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
> The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
> Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
> Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity
> 
> 
> 
> You're being misinformed.
Click to expand...


Gosh, another one of your "I want a One State Solution" from an Arab/Muslim/Palestinian who wants to see Israel gone and all become the "State of Palestine"

Good one Tin man !!!


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
> But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
> This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
> The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
> Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
> Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity
> 
> 
> 
> You're being misinformed.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh, another one of your "I want a One State Solution" from an Arab/Muslim/Palestinian who wants to see Israel gone and all become the "State of Palestine"
> 
> Good one Tin man !!!
Click to expand...


And a single Apartheid state, as now with Jews in control of a population of non-Jews as large as its own, or a single democratic secular with equality for all the inhabitants are the only two options left.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
> But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
> This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
> The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
> Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
> Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity
> 
> 
> 
> You're being misinformed.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh, another one of your "I want a One State Solution" from an Arab/Muslim/Palestinian who wants to see Israel gone and all become the "State of Palestine"
> 
> Good one Tin man !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a single Apartheid state, as now with Jews in control of a population of non-Jews as large as its own, or a single democratic secular with equality for all the inhabitants are the only two options left.
Click to expand...


That's obviously clueless. A secular democratic state is not in keeping with  the goals of the Hamas charter or Islamist ideology. Here's a thought, identify a single example of a secular democratic state in the Islamist Middle East with an Arab-Moslem majority that is not threatened by the "Peaceful Inner Strugglers".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
> But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
> This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
> The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
> Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
> Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity
> 
> 
> 
> You're being misinformed.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh, another one of your "I want a One State Solution" from an Arab/Muslim/Palestinian who wants to see Israel gone and all become the "State of Palestine"
> 
> Good one Tin man !!!
Click to expand...

I notice that you did not refute one word she said.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” (UNRWA) was established by the UN General Assembly in December 1949 as a distinctly temporary entity to assist in reintegration, repatriation, or resettlement, with a view to furthering peace.
> But according to UNRWA’s mandate, refugee status extends to cover all future generations of Palestinians, and specifically “descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.” Rather than narrowing the problem, this definition has extended it, with refugee status now applying into the fourth generation of Palestinians, exploding the number of registered refugees from an estimated 700,000 back in 1949 (per UNRWA’s claims) to 5,000,000.1
> This UNRWA mandate is far beyond the accepted international definitions and criteria for refugees that are the basis for the much more successful model for international refugee relief – the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), formed in 1950. The UNHCR seeks to _resettle refugees, not perpetuate their camp existence._
> The UNHRC operates on the basis of the 1951 Refugee Convention, which does not say a word about passing refugee status to descendants. Refugee status, according to the convention, is not permanent.
> Refugees who become naturalized in their host countries, according to the convention, lose their refugee status. In contrast, in the UNRWA system, a Palestinian refugee who was born in Zurich and has a Swiss passport is still defined as a refugee.
> Any attempt to reach a final Israeli-Palestinian peace must require a complete suspension of UNRWA funding and financing with a view to dissolving the agency and dismantling the refugee camps. New housing should replace them. Funding should be transformed into direct assistance to the appropriate agencies to carry out this task. If the goal of a future agreement is to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all, then UNRWA’s current configuration makes a final peace impossible to achieve.
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA Condemns the Palestinians to Refugee Status in Perpetuity
> 
> 
> 
> You're being misinformed.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh, another one of your "I want a One State Solution" from an Arab/Muslim/Palestinian who wants to see Israel gone and all become the "State of Palestine"
> 
> Good one Tin man !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice that you did not refute one word she said.
Click to expand...


Nothing to refute regarding the goals and aspirations of Islamic fascists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Dr. RASHID KHALIDI*

**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Is playing the terrorist card all you have?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card all you have?
Click to expand...



Are slogans all you have?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card all you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are slogans all you have?
Click to expand...

Israel occupied Gaza before there was a Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The hidden aftermath of war | Eman Mohammed | TEDxHarvardCollege*


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *The hidden aftermath of war | Eman Mohammed | TEDxHarvardCollege*



What exactly is Hamas' responsibility for any and all of the deaths and destruction of the Arabs and cities in Gaza since they took over the area after Israel took all of its people out of a part of Gaza in 2005?

Where is this presenter's acknowledgment that Israel did disengage from Gaza hoping that Abbas and others would make peace with Israel?

Where is the showing in these presentation, or any other , of the Hamas Charter, Hamas incitement, Hamas using a Hospital as its Headquarters, Hamas hiding missiles and weapons in schools, mosques, etc ?

Where Tin man?

Where is the truth about what is really going on in Gaza and who keeps causing it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The hidden aftermath of war | Eman Mohammed | TEDxHarvardCollege*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly is Hamas' responsibility for any and all of the deaths and destruction of the Arabs and cities in Gaza since they took over the area after Israel took all of its people out of a part of Gaza in 2005?
> 
> Where is this presenter's acknowledgment that Israel did disengage from Gaza hoping that Abbas and others would make peace with Israel?
> 
> Where is the showing in these presentation, or any other , of the Hamas Charter, Hamas incitement, Hamas using a Hospital as its Headquarters, Hamas hiding missiles and weapons in schools, mosques, etc ?
> 
> Where Tin man?
> 
> Where is the truth about what is really going on in Gaza and who keeps causing it?
Click to expand...

Not from you, for sure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult making feminists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Death Cult making feminists


Ahhh, the old Hamas canard again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Rania Masri's Speech at "Crisis in Gaza and West Bank: Context and Action" Forum *

*** *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult in context


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

We are the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc., Hamas franchise, offers a taste of the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult overseas


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's attempts to divide Palestinian Christians from Muslims*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Blacklisted, Smeared & Silenced For Exposing NATO Destabilization Of Syria *


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

For over 3000 years Hebron had been the most ancient of all Jewish cities, with always a majority Jewish population.
Then in 1929 the Arabs came incited by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Al Husseini.
How many Jews were left after the massacre?
How many were allowed to return?
How many years did it take until Jews managed to return to their ancient city?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> For over 3000 years Hebron had been the most ancient of all Jewish cities, with always a majority Jewish population.
> Then in 1929 the Arabs came incited by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Al Husseini.
> How many Jews were left after the massacre?
> How many were allowed to return?
> How many years did it take until Jews managed to return to their ancient city?


He didn't mention that this was a response to the Zionist colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*IT disruption panics Gaza’s new Internet entrepreneurs*

No Internet?

Hussain Mahdi, 24, looked shocked. “Our lives would be paralyzed,” the young T-shirt designer said.

Large areas of the Gaza Strip were left without IT services for 90 minutes before Gaza’s electricity company – which manages severely limited fuel availability through rolling blackouts – intervened to supply Paltel with electricity off-schedule.

For impoverished Gaza – cut off from the rest of the world as a result of a now decade-old blockade imposed by Israel – such disruption could spell further disaster. Many Palestinians in Gaza rely on the Internet for their livelihood.

IT disruption panics Gaza’s new Internet entrepreneurs


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gazans turn to their rooftops for sustenance*

The decade-old Israeli blockade on Gaza has dramatically undermined the coastal strip’s agriculture sector. The
electricity crisis has exacerbated this problem. With electricity available for only three to four hours a day, most productive sectors in Gaza are debilitated to the point of paralysis.

But Palestinians in Gaza have long had to rely on their own resourcefulness to survive. They’ve powered cars with cooking oil, built homes from mud bricks and, at one point, created a tunnel industry that, according to the United Nations, became a lifeline for Palestinians in Gaza before Egypt mostly shut it down in 2015.

This resourcefulness has also been brought to bear on the agriculture sector. With overcrowding causing urban spread from one side, and an Israeli military no-go area infringing on mostly agricultural land on the other, arable land is at a premium. Palestinians in Gaza have – yet again – had to think outside the box. With no land outward, they’ve moved upward to the rooftops.

Gazans turn to their rooftops for sustenance


----------



## P F Tinmore

Maybe by the time they grow up Israel will allow tourism.


----------



## Hollie

Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.


Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
Click to expand...


Indeed, cool. As long as Arabs-Moslems die by "defending themselves" by way of attacking Israel, you will be a happy wannabe.

You really do like having those dead islamo- bodies to parade around.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
Click to expand...



 How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense". 

 What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dogmaphobe said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
Click to expand...

It is not that they are Jews. It is that they are criminals. It would not matter if they were Hindus.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that they are Jews. It is that they are criminals. It would not matter if they were Hindus.
Click to expand...


Nonsense. Being a Pom Pom flailer for Islamic terrorists makes you quite the accomplice to Islamic terrorism. 

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.


----------



## montelatici

Dogmaphobe said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are resisting occupation and colonization the same way the all colonized people have throughout history.  Do you single them out because the oppressors and colonizers happen to practice Judaism?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are resisting occupation and colonization the same way the all colonized people have throughout history.  Do you single them out because the oppressors and colonizers happen to practice Judaism?
Click to expand...


Actually, it is the Jewish people who are resisting Islamic terrorism. For your education: 10,000 rockets fired from the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan, mass murder / suicide attacks as the result of a program of indoctrination is not "resisting". Hamas has the same goals and uses the same tactics as ISIS, Boko Haram and any of the other cabal of Islamic terrorist organizations.

Flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorists as you wish. They're still Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are resisting occupation and colonization the same way the all colonized people have throughout history.  Do you single them out because the oppressors and colonizers happen to practice Judaism?
Click to expand...

Bzzzzt. Wrong,  They're trying to kill Jews because they are Jews.


----------



## louie888

Roudy said:


> They're trying to kill Jews because they are Jews.


Based on what? Your beliefs/brainwashing?


----------



## Hollie

I'm not sure what the issue is related to the "suffering children" in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan. With a dedicated welfare fraud financed by the UN and that welfare money diverted to the personal bank accounts of Islamic terrorist crooks, send the little islamo-darlings to the Hamas run Hitler Youth Camps and all is right with the world.




*Gaza's children suffer as Hamas, PA continue conflict*
Dr. Ra'ad Haj Yehia, a member of the Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHRI) organization, returned June 26 from the Gaza Strip. He says he still hasn’t recovered from the scenes he saw in the hospitals there. Yehia was summoned to Gaza by medical teams in the Strip who asked the PHRI organization “to come and save lives.”

Ever since Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas decided to sever the Palestinian Authority (PA) from the Strip and stop transferring money to it in April 2017, the health system in Gaza has been collapsing. The Gaza Health Ministry reported at the end of June on infants and children who died because the PA refused to underwrite life-saving medical treatment for them in Israel or other hospitals in the West Bank

Read more: Gaza's children suffer as Hamas, PA continue conflict


----------



## Roudy

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're trying to kill Jews because they are Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what? Your beliefs/brainwashing?
Click to expand...

Based on their history and the facts.


----------



## louie888

Roudy said:


> Based on their history and the facts.


What history and facts are these?


----------



## Roudy

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on their history and the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> What history and facts are these?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should stay of the antisemitic neoNazi IslamoNazi sites that pollute your mind and read some actual history.  Start with the Nazi Mufti, and then to his nephew Arafat Hussein who took up his uncle's IslamoNazi mantle.  It will help you discover exactly "who are the Palestinians".


----------



## louie888

LOL, they don't hate Jews for being Jewish, they hate jews who commit crimes, carry out slaughters... they hate israel's behavior (which takes place in our Jewish name) in general.


----------



## Roudy

louie888 said:


> LOL, they don't hate Jews for being Jewish, they hate jews who commit crimes, carry out slaughters... they hate israel's behavior (which takes place in our Jewish name) in general.


LOL you are so ignorant its comic. Still trying to play the role of a Jew, Achmed?   

Let me fill you in on "Who are the Palestinians?"  They are the bastard children of the marriage between Nazism, and Arab Islamic nationalism.

Hitler's Mufti | Catholic Answers

Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism. 

Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. "Hitler’s Mufti," as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil. 

According to the testimony of Adolf Eichmann’s chief deputy Dieter Wisliceny (who was hanged for war crimes) the Mufti played a role in encouraging the Final Solution and was a close friend and advisor to Eichmann in the Holocaust’s implementation across Europe. Wisliceny testified further that al-Husseini had a close association with Heinrich Himmler and visited the gas chambers at Auschwitz, where he exhorted the staff to be even more dedicated in its important work.

To assist the practical slaughter of Jews and Christians, al-Husseini built an army of Muslim volunteer units for the _Waffen-SS_ (the combat units of the dread SS) to operate for the Nazi cause in the Balkans. While the appeal for volunteers from among Muslims always struggled to meet the demands for new recruits, al-Husseini was able to organize three divisions of Bosnian Muslims who were then trained as elements of the _Waffen-SS_. The largest radical Muslim unit was the 13th _Waffen-SS Handzar_ ("Dagger") division that boasted over 21,000 men. They were joined by the Bosnian 23rd _Waffen-SS Kama_ Division and the Albanian Skanderbeg 21st _Waffen-SS_Division. The Muslim _Waffen-SS_ forces fought across the Balkans against Communist partisans and then assisted in the genocide of Yugoslavian Jews and in the persecution and slaughter of Gypsies and Christian Serbs in 1944 and 1945. The brutality extended to Catholics as well, for the Muslim _Waffen-SS_ cut a path of destruction across the Balkans that encompassed a large number of Catholic parishes, churches, and shrines and resulted in the deaths of thousands of Catholics. By the end of the war, al-Husseini’s fanatical soldiers had killed over 90 percent of the Jews in Bosnia. 

Hajj Amin al-Husseini’s legacy was to inspire generations of terrorists, Islamic jihadists, and such dictators as Saddam Hussein of Iraq. The foremost exemplar of his influence was a young terrorist and distant relative who became one of his most ardent students: Yasser Arafat, the future leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organization. Rabbi David Dalin—one of Pope Pius XII’s greatest defenders—offers a fitting final word:

The "most dangerous" cleric in modern history, to use John Cornwell’s phrase, was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini, whose anti-Jewish Islamic fundamentalism was as dangerous in World War II as it is today . . . The grand mufti was the Nazi collaborator par excellence. "Hitler’s mufti" is truth. "Hitler’s pope" is myth. (_The Myth of Hitler’s Pope_, 137)

*Child Murderer*

In late 1942, Heinrich Himmler gave his permission for 10,000 Jewish children to be transferred from Poland to Theresienstadt with the eventual aim of allowing them to go to Palestine in exchange for German civilian prisoners, through the International Red Cross. The plan was abandoned, however, because of the protests of the Grand Mufti.

The following year, al-Husseini blocked the emigration of 4,000 Jewish children and 500 accompanying adults to Palestine that was proposed by the governments of Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary. The children were sent instead to the gas chambers.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Actually, it is the Jewish people who are resisting Islamic terrorism.



The Jewish people aren't just resisting Islamic and Arab Palestinian terrorism -- they are resisting the occupation and colonization of their ancestral and historical lands.


----------



## montelatici

The Europeans (of the Judaic faith) with the help of the British, invaded and colonized Palestine and evicted and dispossessed a large proportion of the native indigenous population.  The invaders and colonizers would be resisted by the native Muslims and Christians whatever religion the the colonizers  practiced.  It should be mentioned that the Europeans proudly described themselves as colonizers in print. 

*Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committee*

“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said."


Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ


----------



## Shusha

*
Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;*


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> *Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;*



Well, isn't that precious, the British decide that a bunch of Europeans should have the right to evict native people from their ancestral home and create a colony.  Like they hadn't done it before.  You are truly an idiot.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;


Would you be OK with Canada giving Texas to Mexico?


----------



## Shusha

The world leaders of the time, rightly, gave recognition of the connection of the Jewish people to their ancestral and historical lands in order to re-constitute their nation.  It was entirely the correct and responsible thing to do.  Denying the Jewish people their ancestral and historical homeland is morally abhorrent.


----------



## Shusha

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be OK with Canada giving Texas to Mexico?
Click to expand...


I am okay with any indigenous peoples being recognized for their historical connection to their ancestral lands and reconstituting their national home.  Including First Nations peoples of Texas and Mexico and Canada.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> Denying the Jewish people their ancestral and historical homeland is morally abhorrent.


Stealing and murdering is morally abhorrent, but you wouldn't know.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> I am okay with any indigenous peoples being recognized for their historical connection to their ancestral lands and reconstituting their national home. Including First Nations peoples of Texas and Mexico and Canada.


You didn't answer the question.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Denying the Jewish people their ancestral and historical homeland is morally abhorrent.
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing and murdering is morally abhorrent, but you wouldn't know.
Click to expand...

Stealing and murdering defines Islamist history. But then, you knew that.


----------



## Shusha

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am okay with any indigenous peoples being recognized for their historical connection to their ancestral lands and reconstituting their national home. Including First Nations peoples of Texas and Mexico and Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer the question.
Click to expand...


Sure I did.  You just didn't like the answer.  You set up a false premise.  I answered, adjusting to correct the premise.  Countries can not "give away" land belonging to other countries.  So Canada can not "give" Texas to Mexico.  Its a false premise.  

The dissolution of the Ottoman Empire created a vacuum of sovereignty.  The sovereignty was intended to pass to the peoples of the land in question, after a period of supervision.  One of the peoples of that land, the Jewish people, were specifically given worldwide acknowledgement of their connection to the land and their right to reconstitute their State on that land.  

The equivalent in your scenario would be if the US was dissolved by war, subsequent treaty and new States were created from that vacuum and the First Nations peoples of Texas were acknowledged to be a separate group with rights to their own independent sovereignty on their ancestral territories.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> Countries can not "give away" land belonging to other countries. So Canada can not "give" Texas to Mexico. Its a false premise.


Thank-you for your honesty. Keep what you just said in mind when you post your now obviously hypocritical crap elsewhere.


----------



## Shusha

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Countries can not "give away" land belonging to other countries. So Canada can not "give" Texas to Mexico. Its a false premise.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank-you for your honesty. Keep what you just said in mind when you post your now obviously hypocritical crap elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Britian did not "give" land to from one country to another.  Try to improve your reading comprehension.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> Britian did not "give" land to from one country to another. Try to improve your reading comprehension.


You proved again that they don't teach history at your temple.

HOMEWORK: Google "Balfour Declaration"


----------



## Shusha

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britian did not "give" land to from one country to another. Try to improve your reading comprehension.
> 
> 
> 
> You proved again that they don't teach history at your temple.
> 
> HOMEWORK: Google "Balfour Declaration"
Click to expand...


Really?  You must do better if you want to keep up.  The Balfour Declaration is not a treaty which transfers land between two sovereign states at the demand of a third.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> Really? You must do better if you want to keep up. The Balfour Declaration is not a treaty which transfers land between two sovereign states at the demand of a third.


I never said it was, illiterate.


----------



## Shusha

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You must do better if you want to keep up. The Balfour Declaration is not a treaty which transfers land between two sovereign states at the demand of a third.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was, illiterate.
Click to expand...


Then why did you bring it up as relevant to "Britain didn't give land from one country to another?"


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You must do better if you want to keep up. The Balfour Declaration is not a treaty which transfers land between two sovereign states at the demand of a third.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was, illiterate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why did you bring it up as relevant to "Britain didn't give land from one country to another?"
Click to expand...


Britain provided security for the Europeans and provided the land for European colonists to settle.  More importantly, they prevented the vast majority of non-Jews from establishing self goverment while facilitating the flooding of the land with Europeans.  Britain effectively gave the land to the colonists.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You must do better if you want to keep up. The Balfour Declaration is not a treaty which transfers land between two sovereign states at the demand of a third.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was, illiterate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why did you bring it up as relevant to "Britain didn't give land from one country to another?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain provided security for the Europeans and provided the land for European colonists to settle.  More importantly, they prevented the vast majority of non-Jews from establishing self goverment while facilitating the flooding of the land with Europeans.  Britain effectively gave the land to the colonists.
Click to expand...


It's another of the slogans you endlessly cut and paste multiple time across multiple threads: 'they [the British -ed,] prevented the vast majority of non-Jews from establishing self goverment...".

Of course that's nonsense. Given every opportunity to support that nonsense, you shuffle off with no ability to offer substantiation. 

Such silly propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You must do better if you want to keep up. The Balfour Declaration is not a treaty which transfers land between two sovereign states at the demand of a third.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was, illiterate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why did you bring it up as relevant to "Britain didn't give land from one country to another?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain provided security for the Europeans and provided the land for European colonists to settle.  More importantly, they prevented the vast majority of non-Jews from establishing self goverment while facilitating the flooding of the land with Europeans.  Britain effectively gave the land to the colonists.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the bottom line is that Palestine belonged to the Palestinians. It did not belong to the British, the League of Nations, or the UN. None of them had any authority to give it away.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the bottom line is that Palestine belonged to the Palestinians. It did not belong to the British, the League of Nations, or the UN. None of them had any authority to give it away.



"Palestine" belonged to ALL the Palestinians, not just the Arab ones.  The Jewish peoples existing claims and rights were acknowledged by the international community.  *Note:  Britain, the League of Nations, the UN did not GIVE or GRANT rights to the Jewish people, they simply acknowledged the Jewish peoples existing rights. * It was no different than the British or the French, the League of Nations, the UN recognizing the rights of the Syrian people, the Lebanese people, the Iraqi people, the Jordanian people.  (And, for that matter, the Indian people, the Pakistani people, the Bangladeshi people, the Serbians, the Czechs, the Bosnians, the Croatians, the Koreans (N and S), Vietnamese, South Sudan, Belarus, Montenegro, Timore-Leste, or any of dozens and dozens of new nations which have come in to being in the past century).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the bottom line is that Palestine belonged to the Palestinians. It did not belong to the British, the League of Nations, or the UN. None of them had any authority to give it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" belonged to ALL the Palestinians, not just the Arab ones.  The Jewish peoples existing claims and rights were acknowledged by the international community.  *Note:  Britain, the League of Nations, the UN did not GIVE or GRANT rights to the Jewish people, they simply acknowledged the Jewish peoples existing rights. * It was no different than the British or the French, the League of Nations, the UN recognizing the rights of the Syrian people, the Lebanese people, the Iraqi people, the Jordanian people.  (And, for that matter, the Indian people, the Pakistani people, the Bangladeshi people, the Serbians, the Czechs, the Bosnians, the Croatians, the Koreans (N and S), Vietnamese, South Sudan, Belarus, Montenegro, Timore-Leste, or any of dozens and dozens of new nations which have come in to being in the past century).
Click to expand...

The question is where did the Jews get the right to give the Palestinians the boot and steal their land?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The question is where did the Jews get the right to give the Palestinians the boot and steal their land?



Again, the Jewish people AS "Palestinians" got their right in the SAME place and in the SAME manner as the Arabs did.  No one stole any land.  No one gave away any land.  The Jewish people, as inhabitants, have the SAME rights as ALL of the surrounding Arabs.  Its really quite simple.


----------



## Shusha

I'll add that I believe the Jewish people have the BETTER claim, as the pre-conquest, pre-invasion indigenous peoples.  But the Arab Palestinians and their long existence in the land must also be recognized.


----------



## Sixties Fan

These include gems such as that Jews are descendants of “apes and pigs” that is ingrained in young Palestinian children from birth, the public embrace and praise of terrorists, the purposeful misinformation campaigns aimed at inciting violence against Jews, (note, not Israelis, but “Yahood”). As long as this continues and Europe ignores it, what evidence do we have that they’ve learned anything at all from the Holocaust? Many Germans, at least initially, wanted to see their country rise again after the disaster of WWI, possibly motivated not as much by racism as by the well-being of their country. They felt they had been given unfair treatment following the Treaty of Versailles and were taught the Jews were to blame. How is this different from what Palestinians teach their children? European governments continue to fund the PA, which utilizes many of the same dehumanizing tactics that the Nazis used.

It is these same tactics which made it far too easy for an entire country to ignore the murder of an ethnic group of six million people.

(full article online)

Well-intentioned antisemitism


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the bottom line is that Palestine belonged to the Palestinians. It did not belong to the British, the League of Nations, or the UN. None of them had any authority to give it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" belonged to ALL the Palestinians, not just the Arab ones.  The Jewish peoples existing claims and rights were acknowledged by the international community.  *Note:  Britain, the League of Nations, the UN did not GIVE or GRANT rights to the Jewish people, they simply acknowledged the Jewish peoples existing rights. * It was no different than the British or the French, the League of Nations, the UN recognizing the rights of the Syrian people, the Lebanese people, the Iraqi people, the Jordanian people.  (And, for that matter, the Indian people, the Pakistani people, the Bangladeshi people, the Serbians, the Czechs, the Bosnians, the Croatians, the Koreans (N and S), Vietnamese, South Sudan, Belarus, Montenegro, Timore-Leste, or any of dozens and dozens of new nations which have come in to being in the past century).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is where did the Jews get the right to give the Palestinians the boot and steal their land?
Click to expand...

It's called the version of the 1948 war that isn't described in a realistic manner on any Arab website.
And guess what?
With all your complaining, they ain't getting it back.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the bottom line is that Palestine belonged to the Palestinians. It did not belong to the British, the League of Nations, or the UN. None of them had any authority to give it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" belonged to ALL the Palestinians, not just the Arab ones.  The Jewish peoples existing claims and rights were acknowledged by the international community.  *Note:  Britain, the League of Nations, the UN did not GIVE or GRANT rights to the Jewish people, they simply acknowledged the Jewish peoples existing rights. * It was no different than the British or the French, the League of Nations, the UN recognizing the rights of the Syrian people, the Lebanese people, the Iraqi people, the Jordanian people.  (And, for that matter, the Indian people, the Pakistani people, the Bangladeshi people, the Serbians, the Czechs, the Bosnians, the Croatians, the Koreans (N and S), Vietnamese, South Sudan, Belarus, Montenegro, Timore-Leste, or any of dozens and dozens of new nations which have come in to being in the past century).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is where did the Jews get the right to give the Palestinians the boot and steal their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's called the version of the 1948 war that isn't described in a realistic manner on any Arab website.
> And guess what?
> With all your complaining, they ain't getting it back.
Click to expand...

Giving the Palestinians the boot and stealing their land started before the 1948 war.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the bottom line is that Palestine belonged to the Palestinians. It did not belong to the British, the League of Nations, or the UN. None of them had any authority to give it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" belonged to ALL the Palestinians, not just the Arab ones.  The Jewish peoples existing claims and rights were acknowledged by the international community.  *Note:  Britain, the League of Nations, the UN did not GIVE or GRANT rights to the Jewish people, they simply acknowledged the Jewish peoples existing rights. * It was no different than the British or the French, the League of Nations, the UN recognizing the rights of the Syrian people, the Lebanese people, the Iraqi people, the Jordanian people.  (And, for that matter, the Indian people, the Pakistani people, the Bangladeshi people, the Serbians, the Czechs, the Bosnians, the Croatians, the Koreans (N and S), Vietnamese, South Sudan, Belarus, Montenegro, Timore-Leste, or any of dozens and dozens of new nations which have come in to being in the past century).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question is where did the Jews get the right to give the Palestinians the boot and steal their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's called the version of the 1948 war that isn't described in a realistic manner on any Arab website.
> And guess what?
> With all your complaining, they ain't getting it back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Giving the Palestinians the boot and stealing their land started before the 1948 war.
Click to expand...

Giving people money is giving them the boot?
You really should try an education.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Another day in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult*

Islamism truly is the ultimate totalitarianism. The ideology demands unthinking allegiance and absolute authority. The pious clergy sanctifies the use of violence to spread the Cult with promises of carnal rewards in the afterlife to those who die in the service of the Cult. 


*What did the terrorist write in his will?*
17-year-old terrorist stabs Border Police officer, is eliminated.

What did the terrorist write in his will?

A Palestinian Arab terrorist stabbed an Israeli Border Police officer at Tapuah Junction in Samaria.

Other officers succeeded in eliminating the terrorist.

The officer was transferred, conscious and lightly wounded, to Petah Tikva's Beilinson Hospital.

Initial investigations show that the 17-year-old terrorist arrived by foot to the junction's southern hitchhiking station. The terrorist carried a bag, and when Border Police officers approached him to perform a security check, the terrorist drew his knife and stabbed one of the officers.


----------



## Hollie

Because Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians" are raised from birth with nothing but self-hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Flotilla Passengers Huwaida Arraf Responds to Assault*

**
**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Brought to you by a Pallywood Production Studios, Inc.


----------



## Hollie

Pallywood. What a hoot.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that they are Jews. It is that they are criminals. It would not matter if they were Hindus.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you support the death of Arabs in Israel down in that murderous black place that exists where your heart should be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*I am a girl- **Yara Jouda, *Gaza






*I am a girl* who has no dreams and maybe no future. In a blink of an eye, I could be without hands, heart and soul.

*I am a girl *who lives under a roof which is under a sky occupied by thousands of planes full of rockets, who is surrounded by land without anyone to work it, because everyone is afraid of being killed by soldiers in the watch towers, hidden but ready to fire at any time—without caring who they target and how their families will survive without them.

*Beyond that, there is a sea* that, as much as we love it, terrifies us, because it carries huge and creepy ships that can kill us as well.

Shall I also tell you about the beautiful park turned into scarred, barren land? Shall I tell you I would love to fly on a plane, but it I am so scared of being killed by one? Shall I tell you that I am scared to look at the sky and count the stars, because maybe they will suddenly turn into the lights that kill? I can't even write about these things that threaten my life without fearing I will die as a result.

See more at: I am a girl


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Wafaa Elnjaily *


See more at: A songbird's struggle


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## P F Tinmore




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## montelatici

Dogmaphobe said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that they are Jews. It is that they are criminals. It would not matter if they were Hindus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you support the death of Arabs in Israel down in that murderous black place that exists where your heart should be?
Click to expand...


Those, lbrainwashed like you,  that celebrate the death of thousands of Arab women and children at a  pop by the Israelis every 2-3 years, claiming they are collateral damage, are in a black hole not merely a dark place.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that they are Jews. It is that they are criminals. It would not matter if they were Hindus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you support the death of Arabs in Israel down in that murderous black place that exists where your heart should be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those, lbrainwashed like you,  that celebrate the death of thousands of Arab women and children at a  pop by the Israelis every 2-3 years, claiming they are collateral damage, are in a black hole not merely a dark place.
Click to expand...


Flail your Pom Poms in celebration as you parade the dead islamo-bodies around. The Arabs-Moslems celebrate those deaths as "martyrs". 'Human shields for Islamic terrorists" would be the more accurate term, but hey, when have you ever let facts get in the way of your propaganda?


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## Hollie

"Shirley Temper" - I am a girl tool


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Masood Al Dreemly **Feat. Wafaa Elnjaily*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

"Pallywierd" Now


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## Dogmaphobe

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by the time they grow up, the Death Cult will have killed them... or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How easily are you programmed by propaganda that you would actually characterize the intentional murder of innocent people based upon ethnicity as "self defense".
> 
> What is it in your background that has led you to the point you support the murder of Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not that they are Jews. It is that they are criminals. It would not matter if they were Hindus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you support the death of Arabs in Israel down in that murderous black place that exists where your heart should be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those, lbrainwashed like you,  that celebrate the death of thousands of Arab women and children at a  pop by the Israelis every 2-3 years, claiming they are collateral damage, are in a black hole not merely a dark place.
Click to expand...



Ah, so THAT'S why you support the murder of Jews.

It's because of things I have never said.

Got it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reason, of course, is that Palestinians were the ones who innovated these kinds of attacks, and they were reported in Arabic media in terms of being heroic military operations against Israelis. The phrase stuck even when reporting on Nice or Barcelona, since the shorthand that implicitly finds these attacks to be heroic remains as part of modern Arabic.

The first vehicle attack I am aware of was indeed Palestinian. It was in 2001 when an Arab bus driver aimed his bus at a group of soldiers at the Azor junction, killing seven soldiers and one civilian and injuring 26.

It was the first "heroic ramming operation." It occurred some nine years before Al Qaeda first recommended that tactic in its "Inspire" magazine.

Every time that the media reports on these types of attacks and pretends that they are a new European phenomenon, they are purposefully obscuring the fact that these attacks are yet another gift that Palestinian terrorists have given the world.

(full article online)

In Hebrew, they are terror attacks. In Arabic, they are "operations." ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The first vehicle attack I am aware of was indeed Palestinian. It was in 2001 when an Arab bus driver aimed his bus at a group of soldiers at the Azor junction, killing seven soldiers and one civilian and injuring 26.


Well at least it was not terrorism. It is legal to attack foreign troops.


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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore

*Naim Ateek*


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## P F Tinmore

*Vera Baboun*


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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*


----------



## Hollie




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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*



Oh give me a break.  There is so much BS here I don't know where to start.  Oh, let's start with this.  Israel was just looking for an excuse to put metal detectors up and they were waiting for the excuse.  Therefore, Arab violence is mostly Israel's fault.  

Palestinians needs to do better.  Arab violence gets a response -- the responsibility lies squarely on the Arabs.  End of story.


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## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*


Bu, bu, bu, bu, bu, bu, bu, bu...bullshit!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

*An example of young Arab-Moslem virgin seekers last will. 

Crucial Facts About Latest Palestinian Terrorist Attack You May Have Missed

Crucial Facts About Latest Palestinian Terrorist Attack You May Have Missed*

_*
My will:

My will for you, my family, is that nobody cries during my procession to paradise, but rather distribute dates and utter trilling cries of joy during my martyrdom wedding.

And finally, I will say: see you soon in a paradise, whose width is only equal to heaven and earth and has been prepared for God-fearing people.

Our last prayer is thanks be to God, the lord of the worlds.

Living martyr,

Qutayba Ziad Zahran




*_
In other words, he did it out of a religious desire to die a martyr and reach paradise. Note he makes no mention of life being unbearable or the “occupation.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

2017 Palestinian Authority Budget Shows: Salaries, Benefits For Prisoners, Released Prisoners Several Times Higher Than Welfare For Needy


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the “Palestinians’” attempt to rewrite history and claim falsely that they and not the Jews are the indigenous people of the land of Israel, they have taken to claiming they have descended from the Canaanites. Since the Canaanites preceded the ancient Jews’ conquest of the land, that would make the Palestinians the rightful inheritors. 

Problem with this claim is that it is utterly ridiculous from all points of view. First off, it means the Palestinians aren’t Arabs. Which they are, by their own lights. Arabs, though, came from Arabia and most certainly were not around in the Biblical land of Israel. 

Second, there’s not a shred of evidence that the “Palestinians” were descended from the Canaanites. Nor is there any evidence they descended from any other unified people or tribe, for the simple reason they did not. The immediate forefathers of today’s “Palestinians” either considered themselves southern Syrians or just part of the Arab nation; many others immigrated to pre-Israel Palestine in the first half of the last century from a variety of non-Arab countries. And of course, since the invading Romans tried to erase the Jews’ claim to the land by giving Judea/Israel the meaningless name Palestina, there was never any such people as “the Palestinians”.

(full article online)

The Canaan falsehood | MelaniePhillips.com


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> In the “Palestinians’” attempt to rewrite history and claim falsely that they and not the Jews are the indigenous people of the land of Israel, they have taken to claiming they have descended from the Canaanites. Since the Canaanites preceded the ancient Jews’ conquest of the land, that would make the Palestinians the rightful inheritors.
> 
> Problem with this claim is that it is utterly ridiculous from all points of view. First off, it means the Palestinians aren’t Arabs. Which they are, by their own lights. Arabs, though, came from Arabia and most certainly were not around in the Biblical land of Israel.
> 
> Second, there’s not a shred of evidence that the “Palestinians” were descended from the Canaanites. Nor is there any evidence they descended from any other unified people or tribe, for the simple reason they did not. The immediate forefathers of today’s “Palestinians” either considered themselves southern Syrians or just part of the Arab nation; many others immigrated to pre-Israel Palestine in the first half of the last century from a variety of non-Arab countries. And of course, since the invading Romans tried to erase the Jews’ claim to the land by giving Judea/Israel the meaningless name Palestina, there was never any such people as “the Palestinians”.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Canaan falsehood | MelaniePhillips.com



Of course the Palestinians are the indigenous people.  They are descendants of the Jews, Samaritans, Pagans and others that converted to Christianity after Christianity became the state religion of Rome.  When the Arabians conquered Palestine it was a Christian land inhabited by Christians.  Your silly fake history is easily debunked. And, the inhabitants of Palestine were Palestinians at the time.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the “Palestinians’” attempt to rewrite history and claim falsely that they and not the Jews are the indigenous people of the land of Israel, they have taken to claiming they have descended from the Canaanites. Since the Canaanites preceded the ancient Jews’ conquest of the land, that would make the Palestinians the rightful inheritors.
> 
> Problem with this claim is that it is utterly ridiculous from all points of view. First off, it means the Palestinians aren’t Arabs. Which they are, by their own lights. Arabs, though, came from Arabia and most certainly were not around in the Biblical land of Israel.
> 
> Second, there’s not a shred of evidence that the “Palestinians” were descended from the Canaanites. Nor is there any evidence they descended from any other unified people or tribe, for the simple reason they did not. The immediate forefathers of today’s “Palestinians” either considered themselves southern Syrians or just part of the Arab nation; many others immigrated to pre-Israel Palestine in the first half of the last century from a variety of non-Arab countries. And of course, since the invading Romans tried to erase the Jews’ claim to the land by giving Judea/Israel the meaningless name Palestina, there was never any such people as “the Palestinians”.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Canaan falsehood | MelaniePhillips.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the Palestinians are the indigenous people.  They are descendants of the Jews, Samaritans, Pagans and others that converted to Christianity after Christianity became the state religion of Rome.  When the Arabians conquered Palestine it was a Christian land inhabited by Christians.  Your silly fake history is easily debunked. And, the inhabitants of Palestine were Palestinians at the time.
Click to expand...


It's truly comical to read your befuddled commentaries on indigenous people. How did the invading Christians from Europe magically transform into indigenous people?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Aziz Abu Sarah


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Aziz Abu Sarah




Just tell the tourists that living conditions might not include electricity or indoor plumbing.


----------



## longknife

Where is Palestine?


----------



## montelatici

longknife said:


> Where is Palestine?



Another cartoon Hasbara map. They certainly do pump them out.


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## montelatici

How about a real map.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another cartoon Hasbara map. They certainly do pump them out.
Click to expand...

Internet Jihadis always call whatever facts they encounter that they don't like to face, "Hasbara".  

Yawn.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> How about a real map.


Yeah, after the Roman invasion and renaming.  Duh.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another cartoon Hasbara map. They certainly do pump them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internet Jihadis always call whatever facts they encounter that they don't like to face, "Hasbara".
> 
> Yawn.
Click to expand...


Hasbara does not have facts, just propaganda.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another cartoon Hasbara map. They certainly do pump them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internet Jihadis always call whatever facts they encounter that they don't like to face, "Hasbara".
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hasbara does not have facts, just propaganda.
Click to expand...

"Hasbara" is a figment of internet jihadi imaginations.  It's an excuse they make for being embarrassed by the truth and facts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another cartoon Hasbara map. They certainly do pump them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internet Jihadis always call whatever facts they encounter that they don't like to face, "Hasbara".
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hasbara does not have facts, just propaganda.
Click to expand...


Hasbara has no facts to Jihadists like you who are intent in stealing all of the land which belongs to the Jews.  80% is never enough for the followers of Mohammad, the thief.


----------



## montelatici

But the Palestinians are Christians too.  It would be a Crusade not a Jihad.  The Jews stole the land from my fellow Christians. A third of the Palestinians in Palestine and in the Diaspora are Christians.


----------



## Roudy

This is about Muslim violence and intolerance towards non Muslims.  It has never been anything else.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## longknife

montelatici said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another cartoon Hasbara map. They certainly do pump them out.
Click to expand...


Instead of an inane comment, refute it!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fighting Islamophobia and Education Apartheid: Lamis Deek and Fahd Ahmed & Chicago Teachers *

**


----------



## Roudy

Maybe they should be fighting Muslim hatred and violence towards non Muslims?  in other words a real problem afflicting modern humanity as opposed to a fictional problem created by terrorist apologists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Linda's speech @ 112:00


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour: Moving Muslim Women's Voices from Margin to Center in 2016-NYU School of Law*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Global Empire - A Conversation With Edward Said 
*
**


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Being able to say that I am Palestinian and this is the food of my people...is inherently a political thing."


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> "Being able to say that I am Palestinian and this is the food of my people...is inherently a political thing."



So MANY possible responses:  


"Reem hopes to counteract a rising tide of xenophobia", you know, by encouraging xenophobia against Jews.  

"Reem wanted to start a bakery while visiting her father's native Lebanon", while proudly proclaiming her Palestinian heritage.

"You could use food as an essential tool, then you could do alot", to celebrate and support terrorism.  I could have painted a picture of food on my walls, but I really needed a better tool to celebrate Palestine -- so I chose terrorism instead.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*10 Years of the Palestine Festival of Literature*


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem festival of tribal war


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Ghada Karmi*

The World Today - THE TRAGEDY OF PALESTINE


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prosor will present these results to the UN, which explains why he is calling the people getting aid from UNRWA  "refugees." 

In fact, they aren't, a fact that is obvious when you consider that no Palestinian Arab has ever successfully applied for and received official asylum from other countries as a refugee from Israel (or "Palestine.") The few who have received asylum get that status because they are fleeing persecution by Syria or Hamas, not Israel.

So in reality it isn't that Palestinian refugees are getting quadruple the aid per capita, and about 30 times the manpower per capita, as other refugees.

The real story is that fake refugees are taking aid money away from real refugees.

(full article online)

Fake Palestinian refugees get quadruple the aid per person that real refugees get ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Prosor will present these results to the UN, which explains why he is calling the people getting aid from UNRWA  "refugees."
> 
> In fact, they aren't, a fact that is obvious when you consider that no Palestinian Arab has ever successfully applied for and received official asylum from other countries as a refugee from Israel (or "Palestine.") The few who have received asylum get that status because they are fleeing persecution by Syria or Hamas, not Israel.
> 
> So in reality it isn't that Palestinian refugees are getting quadruple the aid per capita, and about 30 times the manpower per capita, as other refugees.
> 
> The real story is that fake refugees are taking aid money away from real refugees.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fake Palestinian refugees get quadruple the aid per person that real refugees get ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Let them go back home.

Problem solved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prosor will present these results to the UN, which explains why he is calling the people getting aid from UNRWA  "refugees."
> 
> In fact, they aren't, a fact that is obvious when you consider that no Palestinian Arab has ever successfully applied for and received official asylum from other countries as a refugee from Israel (or "Palestine.") The few who have received asylum get that status because they are fleeing persecution by Syria or Hamas, not Israel.
> 
> So in reality it isn't that Palestinian refugees are getting quadruple the aid per capita, and about 30 times the manpower per capita, as other refugees.
> 
> The real story is that fake refugees are taking aid money away from real refugees.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fake Palestinian refugees get quadruple the aid per person that real refugees get ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Let them go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Welfare is far more attractive to these people than going home to Lebanon or Syria.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prosor will present these results to the UN, which explains why he is calling the people getting aid from UNRWA  "refugees."
> 
> In fact, they aren't, a fact that is obvious when you consider that no Palestinian Arab has ever successfully applied for and received official asylum from other countries as a refugee from Israel (or "Palestine.") The few who have received asylum get that status because they are fleeing persecution by Syria or Hamas, not Israel.
> 
> So in reality it isn't that Palestinian refugees are getting quadruple the aid per capita, and about 30 times the manpower per capita, as other refugees.
> 
> The real story is that fake refugees are taking aid money away from real refugees.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fake Palestinian refugees get quadruple the aid per person that real refugees get ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Let them go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Welfare is far more attractive to these people than going home to Lebanon or Syria.
Click to expand...


Or to Arabia.  Why doesn't Arabia take its indigenous population back?  Uhmmmm...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ireland: Don’t do it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hitler wannabe addresses the crowd of Islamic terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas has finally come up with his own detailed peace plan. Instead of waiting for others to present him with plans that he invariably rejects, he has shown the initiative and created a seven point plan to finally bring peace to an intractable conflict.

Oh, not with Israel. Abbas' peace plan is with the internationally designated terror group Hamas!

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas presents a peace plan. But with whom? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prosor will present these results to the UN, which explains why he is calling the people getting aid from UNRWA  "refugees."
> 
> In fact, they aren't, a fact that is obvious when you consider that no Palestinian Arab has ever successfully applied for and received official asylum from other countries as a refugee from Israel (or "Palestine.") The few who have received asylum get that status because they are fleeing persecution by Syria or Hamas, not Israel.
> 
> So in reality it isn't that Palestinian refugees are getting quadruple the aid per capita, and about 30 times the manpower per capita, as other refugees.
> 
> The real story is that fake refugees are taking aid money away from real refugees.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fake Palestinian refugees get quadruple the aid per person that real refugees get ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Let them go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Welfare is far more attractive to these people than going home to Lebanon or Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or to Arabia.  Why doesn't Arabia take its indigenous population back?  Uhmmmm...
Click to expand...


How are Palestinians Arabians?  They are Arabs, Arabic speaking people, but not Arabians.  Arabians are indigenous to Arabia, not Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prosor will present these results to the UN, which explains why he is calling the people getting aid from UNRWA  "refugees."
> 
> In fact, they aren't, a fact that is obvious when you consider that no Palestinian Arab has ever successfully applied for and received official asylum from other countries as a refugee from Israel (or "Palestine.") The few who have received asylum get that status because they are fleeing persecution by Syria or Hamas, not Israel.
> 
> So in reality it isn't that Palestinian refugees are getting quadruple the aid per capita, and about 30 times the manpower per capita, as other refugees.
> 
> The real story is that fake refugees are taking aid money away from real refugees.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fake Palestinian refugees get quadruple the aid per person that real refugees get ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Let them go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Welfare is far more attractive to these people than going home to Lebanon or Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or to Arabia.  Why doesn't Arabia take its indigenous population back?  Uhmmmm...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How are Palestinians Arabians?  They are Arabs, Arabic speaking people, but not Arabians.  Arabians are indigenous to Arabia, not Palestine.
Click to expand...

How have the European Christian Crusaders become indigenous Pal'istanians. 

Shirley, your magical "country of Pal'istan" has magical powers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Politics and Parenting in Palestine: Laila El-Haddad *

**


----------



## Hollie

Parenting in the Death Cult


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Politics and Parenting in Palestine: Laila El-Haddad *
> 
> **



*Palestinian- Politics and "Parenting":*


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Arabians are indigenous to Arabia, not Palestine.



Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile

History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.*
*http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf*







*Shammar tribe*

The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. *It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million in Saudi Arabia(concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrian population thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1] The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq.* In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city of Mosul, their current stronghold


----------



## P F Tinmore

Farah Nabulsi


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Farah Nabulsi




This Arab _"freedom fighting"_ against Jews in Palestine has been going long before Israel was reestablished.
Even when they were not involved, Arabs massacred the Jews and stole their property.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farah Nabulsi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Arab _"freedom fighting"_ against Jews in Palestine has been going long before Israel was reestablished.
> Even when they were not involved, Arabs massacred the Jews and stole their property.
Click to expand...

Was this before or after the start of the Zionist settler colonial project?


----------



## Sixties Fan

All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."

In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."

This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."

And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."
> 
> In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."
> 
> And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."


That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.

Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."
> 
> In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."
> 
> And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.
> 
> Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.
Click to expand...


Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."
> 
> In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."
> 
> And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.
> 
> Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, why do you post here when you know so little?

I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il, you don't know anything about it.

The ambush left three soldiers dead. Two Israeli soldiers were abducted and taken by Hezbollah to Lebanon. Five more were killed in Lebanon, in a failed rescue attempt. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers.

2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."
> 
> In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."
> 
> And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.
> 
> Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il, you don't know anything about it.
> 
> The ambush left three soldiers dead. Two Israeli soldiers were abducted and taken by Hezbollah to Lebanon. Five more were killed in Lebanon, in a failed rescue attempt. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers.
> 
> 2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia​
Click to expand...


Oh, I see !!!!

So, Lebanese commit terrorist acts (probably Hezbollah) and are apprehended and imprisoned by Israel, and  Israel is the bad guy.

Hezbollah starts a war, and Israel is the bad guy.

Terrorists who commit murder or attempt to commit murder  belong in prison.  But not if they are "fighting Israel".

"Political Prisoners"  my foot !!!!

You are such a farce !!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."
> 
> In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."
> 
> And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.
> 
> Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il, you don't know anything about it.
> 
> The ambush left three soldiers dead. Two Israeli soldiers were abducted and taken by Hezbollah to Lebanon. Five more were killed in Lebanon, in a failed rescue attempt. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers.
> 
> 2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I see !!!!
> 
> So, Lebanese commit terrorist acts (probably Hezbollah) and are apprehended and imprisoned by Israel, and  Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Hezbollah starts a war, and Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Terrorists who commit murder or attempt to commit murder  belong in prison.  But not if they are "fighting Israel".
> 
> You are such a farce !!!!
Click to expand...

Is name calling all you have?

Sad.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farah Nabulsi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Arab _"freedom fighting"_ against Jews in Palestine has been going long before Israel was reestablished.
> Even when they were not involved, Arabs massacred the Jews and stole their property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was this before or after the start of the Zionist settler colonial project?
Click to expand...


Yes the Arab neighbors massacred and looted the Jewish community in Palestine, long before the 1st Zionist immigration. People were killed and their property stolen, many fled to Northern- Syria. Mind You those communities were already in a dire state, due to special Jew tax imposed on them.

1517 Sefad.
1660 Tiberias
1660 Sefad
1834 Sefad
1838 Sefad

The massacres that followed later were just the same,and I didn't even include the Ottomans or the Egyptians, just the Arab neighbors.
_"Freedom fighters"_ is a myth.


----------



## Sixties Fan

THESE are the Palestinians:


PA then lied, claiming Guterres expressed “understanding” of prisoners’ “suffering,” vowing to “put an end to it”


UN spokesman:
“All of the quotes attributed to the Secretary-General
 are fabricated"

(full article online)

PA entraps UN Sec. Gen. to meet with mother of 5 terrorists - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farah Nabulsi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Arab _"freedom fighting"_ against Jews in Palestine has been going long before Israel was reestablished.
> Even when they were not involved, Arabs massacred the Jews and stole their property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was this before or after the start of the Zionist settler colonial project?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes the Arab neighbors massacred and looted the Jewish community in Palestine, long before the 1st Zionist immigration. People were killed and their property stolen, many fled to Northern- Syria. Mind You those communities were already in a dire state, due to special Jew tax imposed on them.
> 
> 1517 Sefad.
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Sefad
> 1834 Sefad
> 1838 Sefad
> 
> The massacres that followed later were just the same, _"freedom fighters"_ is a myth.
Click to expand...

So you had to go back a hundred years?

Now there is a systematic problem!


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of these "desecrations" are just as upsetting to the Palestinian Authority as Jews calmly walking around the Temple Mount, what they call "storming Al Aqsa."
> 
> In other words, when Israel is pressured to compromise on any part of Jerusalem or the Land of Israel, its "peace partner" will go just as crazy and incite just as much terror as they insist on the next part. If Israel withdraws from territory, they ask for more. If Israel gives up all the West Bank, they would ask for more. We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> This is a long game, and the West simply doesn't understand any mentality that goes beyond an election cycle. The Palestinians might pretend to negotiate for short term gains but they never give up on their objective of taking over all of Israel. After all, that's the entire reason for insisting on the "right of return."
> 
> And when a PA minister lists Jews paying at the Kotel as a "violation of Al Aqsa," the real outrage is that no one is reporting on what reveals the true Palestinian position, that Jews simply don't belong in Jerusalem altogether.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority officially against Jews praying at the Western Wall ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We saw it in Lebanon when Israel left every square centimeter according to the UN - and Hezbollah made up excuses to continue to "resist."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.
> 
> Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il, you don't know anything about it.
> 
> The ambush left three soldiers dead. Two Israeli soldiers were abducted and taken by Hezbollah to Lebanon. Five more were killed in Lebanon, in a failed rescue attempt. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers.
> 
> 2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I see !!!!
> 
> So, Lebanese commit terrorist acts (probably Hezbollah) and are apprehended and imprisoned by Israel, and  Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Hezbollah starts a war, and Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Terrorists who commit murder or attempt to commit murder  belong in prison.  But not if they are "fighting Israel".
> 
> You are such a farce !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is name calling all you have?
> 
> Sad.
Click to expand...


I named called you?  What name did I call you?

Liar, farce, delusional ?

That is "name calling",  Mr  Farce?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farah Nabulsi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Arab _"freedom fighting"_ against Jews in Palestine has been going long before Israel was reestablished.
> Even when they were not involved, Arabs massacred the Jews and stole their property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was this before or after the start of the Zionist settler colonial project?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes the Arab neighbors massacred and looted the Jewish community in Palestine, long before the 1st Zionist immigration. People were killed and their property stolen, many fled to Northern- Syria. Mind You those communities were already in a dire state, due to special Jew tax imposed on them.
> 
> 1517 Sefad.
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Sefad
> 1834 Sefad
> 1838 Sefad
> 
> The massacres that followed later were just the same, _"freedom fighters"_ is a myth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you had to go back a hundred years?
> 
> Now there is a systematic problem!
Click to expand...


The problem arouse with the founding of Islam.  Ever since then Arabs have been made to believe that Jews are worthless and should be treated as such.

That is 1400 years of Mohammad decapitating Jews, forcing what was left of the tribe into slavery, expelling the other two Jewish tribes from Arabia, and his followers at any time later on deciding to do whatever they wished to do with anyone who was a Jew.

Taxes, attacks, rapes, false accusations, destruction of Jewish communities.

Yes, it is indeed as much a systematic disease as it is with Christianity.

Laugh, clown, laugh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was because Israel still held Lebanese political prisoners.
> 
> Leave it up to lying Israeli propaganda organizations to give half of the story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il, you don't know anything about it.
> 
> The ambush left three soldiers dead. Two Israeli soldiers were abducted and taken by Hezbollah to Lebanon. Five more were killed in Lebanon, in a failed rescue attempt. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers.
> 
> 2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I see !!!!
> 
> So, Lebanese commit terrorist acts (probably Hezbollah) and are apprehended and imprisoned by Israel, and  Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Hezbollah starts a war, and Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Terrorists who commit murder or attempt to commit murder  belong in prison.  But not if they are "fighting Israel".
> 
> You are such a farce !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is name calling all you have?
> 
> Sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I named called you?  What name did I call you?
> 
> Liar, farce, delusional ?
> 
> That is "name calling",  Mr  Farce?
Click to expand...

Not to mention playing a few terrorist cards.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do show us an article about Israel "still holding Lebanese political prisoners".
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il, you don't know anything about it.
> 
> The ambush left three soldiers dead. Two Israeli soldiers were abducted and taken by Hezbollah to Lebanon. Five more were killed in Lebanon, in a failed rescue attempt. Hezbollah demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel in exchange for the release of the abducted soldiers.
> 
> 2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I see !!!!
> 
> So, Lebanese commit terrorist acts (probably Hezbollah) and are apprehended and imprisoned by Israel, and  Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Hezbollah starts a war, and Israel is the bad guy.
> 
> Terrorists who commit murder or attempt to commit murder  belong in prison.  But not if they are "fighting Israel".
> 
> You are such a farce !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is name calling all you have?
> 
> Sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I named called you?  What name did I call you?
> 
> Liar, farce, delusional ?
> 
> That is "name calling",  Mr  Farce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to mention playing a few terrorist cards.
Click to expand...


Take a nap, tinman.  You need it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Greenblatt, said following his tour: "I visited the Gaza border today. I learned a lot about the difficult challenges facing the IDF, Israeli residents living in nearby areas and the residents of Gaza as a result of Hamas's misuse of humanitarian aid and its commitment to terrorism and violence. It is clear that the PA must resume its role in managing the Gaza Strip, since Hamas has severely harmed the residents and failed to meet their most basic needs."

"I call upon Hamas to return the Israeli soldiers, Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul, who were taken by them and release the Israeli citizens they hold - Avera Mengistu, Hisham al-Sayed, and d Jumaa Abu Ghanima," added Greenblatt.

(full article online)

'We will not have development in Gaza without captive's return'


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farah Nabulsi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Arab _"freedom fighting"_ against Jews in Palestine has been going long before Israel was reestablished.
> Even when they were not involved, Arabs massacred the Jews and stole their property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was this before or after the start of the Zionist settler colonial project?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes the Arab neighbors massacred and looted the Jewish community in Palestine, long before the 1st Zionist immigration. People were killed and their property stolen, many fled to Northern- Syria. Mind You those communities were already in a dire state, due to special Jew tax imposed on them.
> 
> 1517 Sefad.
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Sefad
> 1834 Sefad
> 1838 Sefad
> 
> The massacres that followed later were just the same, _"freedom fighters"_ is a myth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you had to go back a hundred years?
> 
> Now there is a systematic problem!
Click to expand...

 How much is 1881-1834? 

You're sick. And then You go pretending You _"care about rights, justice and equality"_
Please remember that laughter next time You're going to pass pictures of dead Arabs.

The systematic problem begins when You guys pretend that it all started with political Zionism, when in fact Arabs have been targeting Jews in Palestine long before that. And live in a fantasy, where the world didn't exist prior to the 20th century.
You with Your_ "freedom fighters"_ are frauds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem" *

**
**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem" *
> 
> **
> **




Bethlehem, since 1995 it has seen its Christian population go from 85% to 15 % due to Muslim harassment and threats.

"The Wall" built because Arab Muslims chose to kill Jews instead of protesting their leaders who keep forcing them, and all other Palestinian Arab Muslims to "sacrifice themselves for the cause of keeping the Jews from having sovereignty on any part of their own ancient homeland.

Bethlehem, the place were Jesus The Jew was born.

But according to modern Islamic history, Jesus was a "Palestinian" and Muslims do not mind that lie at all.
Such respect for Christianity.

These Arabs do not like that wall, they would not like the wall built by China, Britain, Egypt or any other country forced to build those walls to keep invaders and murderers out.

Do they have a Bethlehem passport, asks the interviewer?

So, now Bethlehem is a country?


----------



## rylah

*Turmus’ayya Town Profile*

*History *
Turmus'ayya town was originally named „Thormasia‟. The word may be a combination of three shorter words: Tar, Masha, and Ayya. Tar is a distortion of the word „Tawr‟ („mountain‟), Masha is the remains of grapes after being squeezed, and Ayya is from the word „Awi‟, meaning ruins (Al Dabbagh, 1991). *The town‟s residents are originally Majaziyoon from the Murra tribe*, descended from inhabitants of Al Batani and Al Jib villages (Turmus‟ayya Municipality, 2011).

http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/pdfs/vprofile/Turmus'ayya_tp_en.pdf







The *Al Murrah* (Arabic: قبيلة آل مرة‎‎)* is a noble or a sharif Arab tribe descended from the well-known Banu Yam tribe*. The members of the Al Murrah end their names with "Al Murry" also spelled "Al Marri" and "Al Masarri" to correspond to the Arabic pronunciation. *They reside in countries such asQatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Bahrain and Wadi Amad of Yemen. Historically, Al Murrah was a tribe of camel-herding nomads, who controlled and travelled through a vast area of the Arabian Peninsula.*

There's a saying in Saudi Arabia, Fi al Sama barqiyah, Fi al ard Marriyah, which means, "In the sky the telegraph; on the ground Al Murrah." The saying, in couplet form, pays a subtle tribute to the tribe of nomads which more than any other has given birth—and considerable substance—to the colorful image of the desert Bedouins: *Al Murrah, one of the largest and most important tribes of the country*.[1]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem" *
> 
> **
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem, since 1995 it has seen its Christian population go from 85% to 15 % due to Muslim harassment and threats.
> 
> "The Wall" built because Arab Muslims chose to kill Jews instead of protesting their leaders who keep forcing them, and all other Palestinian Arab Muslims to "sacrifice themselves for the cause of keeping the Jews from having sovereignty on any part of their own ancient homeland.
> 
> Bethlehem, the place were Jesus The Jew was born.
> 
> But according to modern Islamic history, Jesus was a "Palestinian" and Muslims do not mind that lie at all.
> Such respect for Christianity.
> 
> These Arabs do not like that wall, they would not like the wall built by China, Britain, Egypt or any other country forced to build those walls to keep invaders and murderers out.
> 
> Do they have a Bethlehem passport, asks the interviewer?
> 
> So, now Bethlehem is a country?
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Bethlehem, since 1995 it has seen its Christian population go from 85% to 15 % due to Muslim harassment and threats.


Do you have a link for that that is not connected to Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!' *

**


----------



## rylah

*Qarawat Bani Zeid Village Profile *

*History*
Qarawat Bani Zeid village was named after the tribe of Bani Zeid. The establishment of the village dates back to more than 500 years ago, and its *residents are originally from Egypt and Yemen* (Qarawat Bani Zeid Village Council, 2011) (See photo below for Qarawat Bani Zeid village).

http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/pdfs/vprofile/Qarawat Bani Zeid_Vp_En.pdf


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## montelatici

*Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin*
In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "They "were small," and were "decimated" by epidemics within two years after the capture of Jerusalem. 
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!' *
> 
> **


All these pathetic anti Isrsel movements including BDS have been correctly identified for what they are, and are being outlawed in the US and now even Europe is beginning to do the same.  Don't you think you're pissing in the wind with all these propaganda clips?


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin*
> In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "They "were small," and were "decimated" by epidemics within two years after the capture of Jerusalem.
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted


and....
"Thus, not only was Arab rule "extraordinarily short," but the "pure Arab peoples in Palestine for millennia" -- a romanticized notion discredited by serious scholars -- actually consisted of a non-Arabian, multi-ethnic procession of immigrants."

More proof today's Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are frauds.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem" *
> 
> **
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Nabil Giacaman, a Christian shop owner of the “Christmas House” store on Manger Square, said that the focus on Christian-only emigration is an attempt to drive a wedge between Christians and Muslims and foster division within Palestinian society. Since the Christian population is so much smaller, their shrinking numbers are felt that much more acutely, he said.
> 
> “It’s not about Christians and Muslims, it’s not that I’m facing these issues only because I’m a Christian,” said Giacaman.* “As Muslims suffer, Christians also suffer. At the end, we are all Palestinian*, we get the same permits and the same treatment at the checkpoints.”
> 
> 
> Christians worry ‘Silent Night’ may soon refer to their community in Bethlehem
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin*
> In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "They "were small," and were "decimated" by epidemics within two years after the capture of Jerusalem.
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> 
> 
> and....
> "Thus, not only was Arab rule "extraordinarily short," but the "pure Arab peoples in Palestine for millennia" -- a romanticized notion discredited by serious scholars -- actually consisted of a non-Arabian, multi-ethnic procession of immigrants."
> 
> More proof today's Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are frauds.
Click to expand...


LOL Palestinian Martyrs written about Palestinian Christians martyred by the Romans prior to Christianity becoming the state religion of Rome.  We're talking before 380 AD.  


*Martiri palestinesi (Palestinian Martyrs)nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi(BHL 7298) *

Though Eusebio of Caesarea’s _De martyribus Palestinae_ has never been translated in latin during the Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, it is the source of some martyrdom accounts known in the latin West. In this paper the author draws a list of latin and greek versions of two of these hagiographies, notably the _Passio Theodosiae virginis_ and the _Passio Romani monachi_, and clarifies the relationship between them : the two texts show some analogies in their transmission. In particular, the most ancient versions of both texts are included in the codex Vat. lat. 5771, a _passionarium_ written at Bobbio in the IXthcentury. This manuscript collects many _Passiones_ translated from Greek and has been classified by Delehaye and Siegmund as a ‘gallic’ _passionarium_. Some internal and external evidences seem to strengthen the hypothesis of the circulation of these two texts in southern Gallia in the first centuries of the Middle Ages.

*Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theo...*


----------



## Sixties Fan

THIS...is the future on endless number of children born to Palestinian Arabs:

2017 Summer Camps In The Palestinian Authority – Part I: Military Training, Glorification Of 'Martyrs' In Camps Run By Higher Council For Youth And Sports Headed By Jibril Rajoub


----------



## Sixties Fan

2017 Summer Camps In The Palestinian Authority – Part II: Military Training, Glorification Of 'Martyrs' At Camps Held By Fatah And National Security Forces


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!' *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> All these pathetic anti Isrsel movements including BDS have been correctly identified for what they are, and are being outlawed in the US and now even Europe is beginning to do the same.  Don't you think you're pissing in the wind with all these propaganda clips?
Click to expand...

Those government tools can't make BDS illegal.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!' *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> All these pathetic anti Isrsel movements including BDS have been correctly identified for what they are, and are being outlawed in the US and now even Europe is beginning to do the same.  Don't you think you're pissing in the wind with all these propaganda clips?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those government tools can't make BDS illegal.
Click to expand...


Just wait until those governments in the USA, Europe and elsewhere do something about not making BDS "illegal", as BDS is going to continue to try to strive in all of those places.

Lets BDS Hamas, and Abbas, and Hezbollah, and Iran, and Assad?

What do you say?

No??????


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!' *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> All these pathetic anti Isrsel movements including BDS have been correctly identified for what they are, and are being outlawed in the US and now even Europe is beginning to do the same.  Don't you think you're pissing in the wind with all these propaganda clips?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those government tools can't make BDS illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just wait until those governments in the USA, Europe and elsewhere do something about not making BDS "illegal", as BDS is going to continue to try to strive in all of those places.
> 
> Lets BDS Hamas, and Abbas, and Hezbollah, and Iran, and Assad?
> 
> What do you say?
> 
> No??????
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Lets BDS Hamas, and Abbas, and Hezbollah, and Iran, and Assad?


Help yourself. It is a free country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem" *
> 
> **
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem, since 1995 it has seen its Christian population go from 85% to 15 % due to Muslim harassment and threats.
> 
> "The Wall" built because Arab Muslims chose to kill Jews instead of protesting their leaders who keep forcing them, and all other Palestinian Arab Muslims to "sacrifice themselves for the cause of keeping the Jews from having sovereignty on any part of their own ancient homeland.
> 
> Bethlehem, the place were Jesus The Jew was born.
> 
> But according to modern Islamic history, Jesus was a "Palestinian" and Muslims do not mind that lie at all.
> Such respect for Christianity.
> 
> These Arabs do not like that wall, they would not like the wall built by China, Britain, Egypt or any other country forced to build those walls to keep invaders and murderers out.
> 
> Do they have a Bethlehem passport, asks the interviewer?
> 
> So, now Bethlehem is a country?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

No wonder they flee to Israel

This Country is the Only Safe Haven for Christians in the Middle East


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> No wonder they flee to Israel
> 
> This Country is the Only Safe Haven for Christians in the Middle East


Does this mean that the Christians will get their land back?

I didn't think so.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No wonder they flee to Israel
> 
> This Country is the Only Safe Haven for Christians in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that the Christians will get their land back?
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...


What land did the Christians ever hold in the Land of Israel ?   LOL
Another bunch of invading, colonizers who came to the "Holy Land" in the name of Jesus to "pass the word".

The Crusaders are long gone


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Palestinian Martyrs written about Palestinian Christians martyred by the Romans prior to Christianity becoming the state religion of Rome.  We're talking before 380 AD.



Eusebius the paid Roman propagandist??
Give me a break.



_"[Eusebius was] the first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity."_



--- *Jakob Burckhardt*, 
Swiss historian (1818-1897)

 








_"The first Christian scholar to engage in researching and writing a complete history of the Christian church, Eusebius of Caesarea, reveals the embarrassing complexity of the development of the Christian canon, despite his concerted attempt to cover this with a pro-orthodox account.

Two things must be known:

*first, Eusebius was either a liar or hopelessly credulous
(see note. 6), and either way not a very good historian;*

second, Eusebius rewrote his History of the Church at least five times 
(cf. M 202, n. 29), in order to accommodate changing events, including 
the ever-important Council of Nicea ..."
_
*Richard Carrier*


----------



## Roudy

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Martyrs written about Palestinian Christians martyred by the Romans prior to Christianity becoming the state religion of Rome.  We're talking before 380 AD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eusebius the paid Roman propagandist??
> Give me a break.
> 
> 
> 
> _"[Eusebius was] the first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity."_
> 
> --- *Jakob Burckhardt*,
> Swiss historian (1818-1897)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"The first Christian scholar to engage in researching and writing a complete history of the Christian church, Eusebius of Caesarea, reveals the embarrassing complexity of the development of the Christian canon, despite his concerted attempt to cover this with a pro-orthodox account.
> 
> Two things must be known:
> 
> *first, Eusebius was either a liar or hopelessly credulous
> (see note. 6), and either way not a very good historian;*
> 
> second, Eusebius rewrote his History of the Church at least five times
> (cf. M 202, n. 29), in order to accommodate changing events, including
> the ever-important Council of Nicea ..."_
> 
> *Richard Carrier*
Click to expand...

He does have a habit of misquoting and using questionable sources in order to promote false narratives.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself (3/5)*

**


----------



## Roudy

So what...let's have yet another terrorist shithole named the "Islamic Caliphate of Palestine" in lieu of Israel, as Hamas keeps braying?   Yeah right, the world really needs yet another one of those!

We of course need a Mooslime named Ali Abu to tell us whether Israel has a right o exist as a Jewish state.  Ha ha ha!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Roudy

And they wonder people call them animals?


----------



## Roudy

Such nice kids...


----------



## Roudy

Yup,they really care for their own kids...NOT.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself (3/5)*
> 
> **



No other State has expressed an abstract right to exist?  

You've got to be kidding me.


----------



## Sixties Fan

These are the Palestinians 

David Bedein, who has done more than almost anyone to expose the hate taught in UNRWA schools, has looked at the latest crop of textbooks published under the auspices of the Palestinian Authority in 2017.

I've spoken to him and he expends a great deal of effort and money to ensure that his translations are as accurate as possible.

Here is some of what he found (images of the pages can be seen at the link):

 Zionists adopted Canaanite place names (Social Studies, Grade 6, Part 1, 2017, p. 54)
“The Zionist occupation named its own settlements by these Canaanite names, [thus] having stolen and forged Palestinian national heritage and history.”

(full article online)

2017 Palestinian textbooks (used by @UNRWA) remain as false and hateful as ever ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[And then one wonders when it may look as if IDF soldiers are abusing Palestinians, thanks to Pallywood ]

Border Police early Thursday morning raided a makeshift arms factory in the West Bank village of Beit Arush, arresting one man and seizing a cache of illegal rifles, improvised automatic weapons, IDF uniforms, binoculars and ammunition.

(full article online)

Border Police seize cache of automatic weapons, IDF uniforms from West Bank village


----------



## Hollie

The attention seeking, sharia promoting, Islamic terrorist hugging Linda Sarsour is a classic example of everything that is wrong with the politburo mouthpieces for Islamists. 



Linda Sarsour Exploits Hurricane Harvey to Fund Community Organizing

Linda Sarsour seems unable to pass up any opportunity to make a quick buck, even at the expense of vulnerable Americans. Her latest target? Caring people all across the country who are looking for ways to help the hundreds of thousands of Texans who have lost everything as the result of Hurricane Harvey. Sarsour recently requested donations for the Harvey Hurricane Relief Fund, which, on its face, sounds innocuous enough. But it turns out that this fund is, in fact, a thinly veiled front for leftist community organizing. 

From the fund’s website: Together we will organize and advocate for our devastated communities, shining a spotlight on inequalities that emerge in the restoration of lives, livelihoods, and homes, amplifying the needs of hard-hit communities, and providing legal assistance for residents wrongfully denied government support.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh Speech: Corporate Media Manipulates Conflict Narratives To Justify War, hate*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Roudy

Yet another propaganda video by Tiny Tin nobody bothers clicking on.  Way to go.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Voices from the Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Roudy




----------



## Roudy




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nour Freteikh*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Roudy




----------



## Roudy




----------



## Roudy




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Roudy




----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians]

.@UNRWA supports animal cruelty ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the mothers who attended the meeting with the UN chief was Latifa Abu Hmaid. Four of her sons, Nasser, Sharif, Nasr and Mohammed are serving multiple life sentences for their role in terrorism. The Palestinian Authority (PA) chose the mother of these terrorists because they are all members of President Mahmoud Abbas's ruling Fatah faction, which is regularly described by Western media outlets as a moderate and pragmatic Palestinian party that believes in the two-state solution and peace with Israel.


The minimum the UN chief and his aides could have done is to call out the PA leadership and condemn it for the ambush and the fabricated report from the official Palestinian news agency. Had Israel been involved in a similar incident, we would have witnessed a diplomatic crisis, prompted by the UN secretary general and his spokesmen as well as the international media. Palestinians, as usual, are given a pass.


The lie about "Jewish extremists" setting fire to the Al-Aqsa Mosque has become so widespread and accepted that even senior Muslim scholars such as Abbas's Grand Mufti, Sheikh Mohamed Hussein, has also been spreading the blood libel. He and most Palestinians continue to describe the Australian Christian arsonist as a "Jewish extremist."


According to the Palestinian propaganda machine, nearly without exception, the terrorists were on their way to buy bread for their mothers or visit their grandmothers. These were innocent victims, the story goes, arrested or shot by Israel for no reason. Then there are the lies about Israelis "planting" knives near the bodies of terrorists who stab or try to murder Jews. Western journalists and others accept these lies as facts.

(full article online)

UN Chief Guterres, the Media and Palestinian Fake News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Her principle argument was that the presence of Jews in Judea and Samaria represents a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, which prohibits states from moving people into territories occupied through war. As a skilled attorney and professional harasser of anything connected to Israel, Erakat acted as though her interpretation of international law is self-evident when, in fact, it is highly dubious.

Whatever the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention in terms of Jewish people building housing for themselves on Jewish land, Erakat rightly noted that Israel has faced major international push-back for these actions.

Naturally, Erakat also dragged out the whiskered canard that Israel has used national security as a mere “cover for further colonization.”

But if the 1967 war was a war of national self-defense, which it was, then Israel is not merely an occupier. But, according to Erakat, the Six-Day War was not defensive — despite the fact that Israel only launched military operations after it was evident that it was about to face an overwhelming Arab invasion. Despite this undisputed history, however, Erakat claims that the war was one of Israeli-Jewish aggression against its largely innocent Muslim neighbors.

(full article online)

Noura Erakat: Bashing Israel at UC-Berkeley


----------



## Roudy

Oh gee, UC Berkeley, the bastion of hate speech, Islam apologists, anti Americanism, antisemtism, and leftist fascism.  Where else would this presentation occur?!


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> Oh gee, UC Berkeley, the bastion of hate speech, Islam apologists, anti Americanism, antisemtism, and leftist fascism.  Where else would this presentation occur?!



"Leftist fascism", Ruddy is such a comedian.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh gee, UC Berkeley, the bastion of hate speech, Islam apologists, anti Americanism, antisemtism, and leftist fascism.  Where else would this presentation occur?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Leftist fascism", Ruddy is such a comedian.
Click to expand...

and you are so ignorant and delusional.

'Antifa' violence in Berkeley spurs soul-searching within leftist activist community

Nancy Pelosi finally condemns Antifa for Berkeley violence

Antifa: Left-wing militants on the rise - BBC News

"They have no allegiance to liberal democracy": an expert on antifa explains the group


----------



## montelatici

Do you even know what Antifa stands for you dimwit.

"Leftist fascism", Ruddy is such a comedian.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Do you even know what Antifa stands for you dimwit.
> 
> "Leftist fascism", Ruddy is such a comedian.


Oooh.  Who cares what a group of violent commies, Marxists, and anarchists say they stand for.  They claim to be anti fascist while behaving exactly like fascistic thugs.  You must be a fan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_The first photo shows a girl wearing an Arab headdress and playing the part of a terrorist, as she faces off against a boy playing an Israeli. The second and third photos show the Palestinian girl "dead" on the ground with a knife in her hand after the "Israelis" who "shot" her standing next to her. The fourth photo shows a number of children standing behind the terrorist "Martyr" lying on the ground with a Palestinian flag draped over her, as is common practice at the funeral of "Martyrs." 
[Facebook page of the National Committee for Summer Camps, Aug. 3, 2017]

_
These photos and others that PMW posted of play-acting terror attacks don't seem to be on the Facebook page of the National Committee for Summer Camps page any more, so there may have been some sensitivity about that after PMW reported it.

But this shows that the PA is no different in teaching their kids to support and idolize terror than Hamas is. The world's embrace of the Palestinian Authority while considering Hamas a terror group is completely political and not based on their actions nor attitudes.

(full article online)

Not only Hamas: PA summer camps teach terror too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Her principle argument was that the presence of Jews in Judea and Samaria represents a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, which prohibits states from moving people into territories occupied through war. As a skilled attorney and professional harasser of anything connected to Israel, Erakat acted as though her interpretation of international law is self-evident when, in fact, it is highly dubious.
> 
> Whatever the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention in terms of Jewish people building housing for themselves on Jewish land, Erakat rightly noted that Israel has faced major international push-back for these actions.
> 
> Naturally, Erakat also dragged out the whiskered canard that Israel has used national security as a mere “cover for further colonization.”
> 
> But if the 1967 war was a war of national self-defense, which it was, then Israel is not merely an occupier. But, according to Erakat, the Six-Day War was not defensive — despite the fact that Israel only launched military operations after it was evident that it was about to face an overwhelming Arab invasion. Despite this undisputed history, however, Erakat claims that the war was one of Israeli-Jewish aggression against its largely innocent Muslim neighbors.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Noura Erakat: Bashing Israel at UC-Berkeley





Sixties Fan said:


> But if the 1967 war was a war of national self-defense, which it was, then Israel is not merely an occupier.


That is sooooo debunked.


----------



## Roudy

How about we hear it from the donkey's mouths?

*Arab Threats Against Israel*

In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War, Arab leaders repeatedly threatened Israel with annihilation. Together with Egypt's ejection of United Nations forces, the closing of the Straits of Tiran, and the massing of troops on Israel's northern and southern borders, the fiery rhetoric created a state of existential fear in Israel.

*Egypt* 

"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965 

"Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967 

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967 

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967 

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein 

"We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967 

"Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – _El Akhbar _newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967 

_Cairo Radio Statements:_

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land" 

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map" 

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab." 

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America." 

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation." 

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East." 

May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches." 

*Jordan*

"All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan, after signing the pact with Egypt May 30*, *1967 

Iraq

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967 

*Palestinians*

"D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967 

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967 

"We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." –  Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem 

*Syria*

Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967

"Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo

*Others*

"The freedom of the homeland will be completed by the destruction of the Zionist entity and the expulsion of the Americans and the British from the region." – Algerian Prime Minister Houari Boumedienne

"We want war. War is the only way to settle the problem of Israel. The Arabs are ready." – Yemeni Foreign Minister Salam


----------



## montelatici

The attempts to return the land to the native inhabitants may have been futile given the U.S. military support of Israel, but there is nothing wrong with the goal of returning the land to the native people.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The attempts to return the land to the native inhabitants may have been futile given the U.S. military support of Israel, but there is nothing wrong with the goal of returning the land to the native people.



By "native people", you're referring to the Turk invaders and the European xtian Crusaders? Maybe the Arab-Moslem colonists / land grabbers?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Najla Said*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

"Palestinian" flag:





Syrian Baath party flag:





Still think they want an independent state?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muhiba Khorshid*, a Palestinian woman and the founder of "The Daisy Flower" organization in 1948. The first feminine organization for armed resistance.

Muhiba used the gun and taught men and women on how to use it against the Zionist occupation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Muhiba Khorshid*, a Palestinian woman and the founder of "The Daisy Flower" organization in 1948. The first feminine organization for armed resistance.
> 
> Muhiba used the gun and taught men and women on how to use it against the Zionist occupation.



Yeah, how to make the indigenous Jews feel the wrath of Islam.
Did she become a martyr or a bride?  Or both?
What, no Arab women attacking Jews between 1920 and 1948?
What kept them?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Muhiba Khorshid*, a Palestinian woman and the founder of "The Daisy Flower" organization in 1948. The first feminine organization for armed resistance.
> 
> Muhiba used the gun and taught men and women on how to use it against the Zionist occupation.



And she too was fighting for Syria, not independent Palestine.

But here's something interesting:
The *Khorshidi dynasty* (Ḵoršīdī, Kurdish: Xurşîdiyan‎, 1184? - 1597[1]) was a dynasty that ruled Little Lorestan[2] (Persian: لر کوچک‎‎, _Lor-e kūchek_, Lori: _Lor-e Kūček_, Kurdish: _Lûrê Piçûk_ ) between 1155[_citation needed_] - 1597[1] from Khorramabad.[1] The dynasty was stemmed from the Jangardi tribe (Jangrūʾī or Jangardī).[1]


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muhiba Khorshid*, a Palestinian woman and the founder of "The Daisy Flower" organization in 1948. The first feminine organization for armed resistance.
> 
> Muhiba used the gun and taught men and women on how to use it against the Zionist occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And she too was fighting for Syria, not independent Palestine.
> 
> But here's something interesting:
> The *Khorshidi dynasty* (Ḵoršīdī, Kurdish: Xurşîdiyan‎, 1184? - 1597[1]) was a dynasty that ruled Little Lorestan[2] (Persian: لر کوچک‎‎, _Lor-e kūchek_, Lori: _Lor-e Kūček_, Kurdish: _Lûrê Piçûk_ ) between 1155[_citation needed_] - 1597[1] from Khorramabad.[1] The dynasty was stemmed from the Jangardi tribe (Jangrūʾī or Jangardī).[1]
Click to expand...


How is she different to Dalal Mughrabi?

*Dalal Mughrabi* (Arabic: دلال المغربي‎‎, Dalāl al-Muɣrabī; _c._ 1959 – 11 March 1978) was a Palestinian militant who was a member of the Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and participated in the 1978 Coastal Road massacre in Israel. The attack resulted in the death of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.[1] Mughrabi and eight other militants were also killed in the course of the operation.[2][3] She has been hailed as a martyr and a national hero among some Palestinians,[4][5]


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muhiba Khorshid*, a Palestinian woman and the founder of "The Daisy Flower" organization in 1948. The first feminine organization for armed resistance.
> 
> Muhiba used the gun and taught men and women on how to use it against the Zionist occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And she too was fighting for Syria, not independent Palestine.
> 
> But here's something interesting:
> The *Khorshidi dynasty* (Ḵoršīdī, Kurdish: Xurşîdiyan‎, 1184? - 1597[1]) was a dynasty that ruled Little Lorestan[2] (Persian: لر کوچک‎‎, _Lor-e kūchek_, Lori: _Lor-e Kūček_, Kurdish: _Lûrê Piçûk_ ) between 1155[_citation needed_] - 1597[1] from Khorramabad.[1] The dynasty was stemmed from the Jangardi tribe (Jangrūʾī or Jangardī).[1]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is she different to Dalal Mughrabi?
> 
> *Dalal Mughrabi* (Arabic: دلال المغربي‎‎, Dalāl al-Muɣrabī; _c._ 1959 – 11 March 1978) was a Palestinian militant who was a member of the Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and participated in the 1978 Coastal Road massacre in Israel. The attack resulted in the death of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.[1] Mughrabi and eight other militants were also killed in the course of the operation.[2][3] She has been hailed as a martyr and a national hero among some Palestinians,[4][5]
Click to expand...

Good question. They both fought against the occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

_Amena El-Ashkar and Khawla Hammad will speak at more than 30 events across the U.S. and Canada this fall on the North America Nakba Tour. To learn more about the 2017 Nakba Tour, visit __nakbatour.com__ or the __North America Nakba Tour Facebook page__._


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Good question. They both fought against the occupation.


We both know Palestinian Arabs massacred civilian Jews before 1948, and even before 1881.
So no, Your '_freedom fighters_' - are frauds.

Find the differences- does this look like an independent Palestine flag to You?

"Palestinian" flag





Syrian Baath  party emblem





Baath Party FLAG:









Report back when You find the differences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr, Karma Nabulsi*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Vivien Sansour*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The struggle for Arabs-Moslems to kill Jews


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Harazeen*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **



She couldn't hold more than 1 min 20 sec without a LIE, why does she put HER words into quotation?
"Reaction" is when You respond, not when You attack first.

What a fraud.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **


Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She couldn't hold more than 1 min 20 sec without a LIE, why does she put HER words into quotation?
> "Reaction" is when You respond, not when You attack first.
> 
> What a fraud.
Click to expand...

You claiming that Lamis Deek lies.

That's rich.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
Click to expand...

What a stupid post. She is Christian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post. She is Christian.
Click to expand...


What a stupid comment. Are xtians a part of the various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post. She is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a stupid comment. Are xtians a part of the various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan?
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post. She is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a stupid comment. Are xtians a part of the various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?
Click to expand...


Have saved that slogan as a Microsoft Word file?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Arabs acted according to their tradition, refusing compromise with inferiors. For over a millennium, Islamic empires had spread by the sword from Arabia across the Middle East and North Africa to much of Europe and as far east as India. God bestowed upon Muslims a right — no, a duty — to dominate _Dar al-Islam_ (the house of Islam) forevermore. Not only did Jews, long a subservient and despised minority in _Dar al-Islam_, lack the right to have an independent state in Palestine, but the Arab residents of Palestine had no right to concede it to them.

The Arabs in Palestine thought that the Jews could not and would not stand up to them, and they acted on that well-established cultural principle. However, the thousand-year-old conditions did not obtain this time around. The Jews they faced were not a _dhimma_, and they did not cower. Against the odds, and with little outside help, they fought and won. Again and again. 

While maintaining their uncompromising rejection of any Jewish state in the Holy Land, the Arabs eventually abandoned their triumphalist rhetoric in favor of a more useful narrative. In this retelling, Israel is responsible for seven decades of mayhem, not the victim of unremitting hostility. That role would now be played by the Arab residents of Palestine, now called “Palestinians” — indeed, they would be forced to play it by the refusal of Arab states to naturalize, or even provide humane accommodations, to the so-called “refugees.”

(full article online)

https://whttps://www.algemeiner.com...er.com/2017/09/03/the-true-palestinian-nakba/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Finally, there is the matter of a separate Palestinian ethno-national consciousness and its relationship to settler-colonialism. Claims to find a separate Palestinian ethnic identity as far back as the 17th century are unpersuasive. Instead, the idea developed as an elite concept in the years immediately before and especially after World War I, vying with far deeper and more resilient tribal and religious identities. The nationalization of the masses occurred gradually over the next few decades, propelled in part by tragedies largely foisted on them by their leaders, notably the “Arab Revolt” of 1936-39, the rejection of partition in 1947, the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49, and the subsequent, rather local, dispersal of refugees into the 1950s. Palestinian nationalism and identity are largely reactive and secondary, pointing to the fact that settler-colonial identity was primarily tribal and religious, the latter imperial by definition.

During the 19th and 20th centuries, a mythology of the “timeless” Palestinians took root. During the earlier period, this was a European Orientalist trope: the Palestinians as living “fossils” who reflected the lifeways of the Bible. It was later adopted for strategic reasons by the Palestinians themselves as a political and cultural retort to the Zionist return to the land. That usage was perhaps understandable, if ironic; but it reaches a _reductio ad absurdum_ in Erekat’s claim to have had Upper Paleolithic ancestors.

It is, then, the Palestinians who are the settler-colonialists, not the Jews or even the Zionists. Does this realization change anything? Does removing a term from the rejectionist toolbox bring the cause of negotiation and peace any closer? This seems unlikely. But in the longer term, facing certain truths will be necessary for Palestinians and Israelis alike. One is that rejection of Israel, at its core, is not a function of Palestinian nationalism and local identity but Islamic religious opposition to Jewish autonomy and sovereignty. Another is that tendentious categories like “settler-colonialism,” which ironically undermine Palestinian claims to indigenous status, should be dispensed with in favor of honest appraisals of history.

(full article online)

Palestinian Settler-Colonialism


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She couldn't hold more than 1 min 20 sec without a LIE, why does she put HER words into quotation?
> "Reaction" is when You respond, not when You attack first.
> 
> What a fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claiming that Lamis Deek lies.
> 
> That's rich.
Click to expand...


Dude, she read a quote, then inserted her own words to twist it 180 degrees to the opposite direction.
How can I react to that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49


Independent from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> the rejection of partition in 1947


What was to be partitioned?

Why was it rejected?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
Click to expand...


Recovering a sovereign nation, free in its' land. Independence from captivity of Jerusalem.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> the rejection of partition in 1947
> 
> 
> 
> What was to be partitioned?
> 
> Why was it rejected?
Click to expand...


Palestine and Jewish Homeland, the mandate, the land ,the rule whatever term You choose.
It was rejected because from both sides' point of view - it was done by a foreign rule. And added to that both Arabs and Jews considered themselves strangers to the land.  Jews were more realistic.

No matter how thin You slice it, always two sides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Women, children and men of Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem expel the Israeli army after trying to arrest a young man.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> the rejection of partition in 1947
> 
> 
> 
> What was to be partitioned?
> 
> Why was it rejected?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jewish Homeland, the mandate, the land ,the rule whatever term You choose.
> It was rejected because from both sides' point of view - it was done by a foreign rule. And added to that both Arabs and Jews considered themselves strangers to the land.  Jews were more realistic.
> 
> No matter how thin You slice it, always two sides.
Click to expand...


Which Jews considered themselves strangers to the land?
It was their ancient homeland, and they were recreating their sovereign Nation.
Only the Arabs rejected the Partition of what was left of the Mandate.
Both in 1937 and 1947 because of Islamic beliefs.  Nothing else.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



LOL, She "violently shoved the student"  LOL

Some shoving.

It is all there in color and still.....the woman "shoved the student"


P F Tinmore said:


>



Such a beautifully edited video.

The woman with the IDF "charged" a student.  She "violently" attacked him.

Not what it looks like.....
Where is the rest of this Pallywood show?

Such Pallywood.  The best fake studio in the world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here is one better:

Now, Students Supporting Israel is calling on the university to suspend the Palestinian support group for an academic year and took to Facebook to encourage students to email UCI Vice Chancellor Thomas Parham.

“We want the university to take action against them and the students involved,” Kevin Brum, president of Students Supporting Israel, said Tuesday. *“They received a warning last year and they (interrupted) our event again.* There’s a clear and present pattern to clearly disrupt.”

UCI reviews pro-Palestinian student group’s protest during Israeli veterans panel

Repeat offenders.
Did not simply sit down and respect the venue.
Became confrontational.

As I said, Pallywood to a T.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is some more about that UCI event:

Sophomore Eliana Kopley had just left a Holocaust-related event when she was walking toward the facility featuring a screening of “Beneath the Helmet,” a documentary about the Israel Defense Forces. As she arrived at the event hosted by Students Supporting Israel, Ms. Kopley _*was met by an angry crowd pounding on the doors and windows—engaged in violent chants targeting the Jewish state.*_
_*---
*_
With the crowd physically forbidding Ms. Kopley from attending the event and chants inciting violence against Jews and Israel such as “Intifada, Intifada—Long live the Intifada!” and “F**k Israel!” Ms. Kopley walked away from the scene.
_*
*_
(full article online)

Jewish Woman Forced to Hide From Anti-Israel Activists at UC-Irvine

Peaceful SJP just doing what they think they have the right to do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one better:
> 
> Now, Students Supporting Israel is calling on the university to suspend the Palestinian support group for an academic year and took to Facebook to encourage students to email UCI Vice Chancellor Thomas Parham.
> 
> “We want the university to take action against them and the students involved,” Kevin Brum, president of Students Supporting Israel, said Tuesday. *“They received a warning last year and they (interrupted) our event again.* There’s a clear and present pattern to clearly disrupt.”
> 
> UCI reviews pro-Palestinian student group’s protest during Israeli veterans panel
> 
> Repeat offenders.
> Did not simply sit down and respect the venue.
> Became confrontational.
> 
> As I said, Pallywood to a T.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone want war criminals pimping their propaganda on US campuses?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Recovering a sovereign nation, free in its' land. Independence from captivity of Jerusalem.
Click to expand...


It was a settler colonial invasion undertaken through the support of the British.  No more, no less. Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one better:
> 
> Now, Students Supporting Israel is calling on the university to suspend the Palestinian support group for an academic year and took to Facebook to encourage students to email UCI Vice Chancellor Thomas Parham.
> 
> “We want the university to take action against them and the students involved,” Kevin Brum, president of Students Supporting Israel, said Tuesday. *“They received a warning last year and they (interrupted) our event again.* There’s a clear and present pattern to clearly disrupt.”
> 
> UCI reviews pro-Palestinian student group’s protest during Israeli veterans panel
> 
> Repeat offenders.
> Did not simply sit down and respect the venue.
> Became confrontational.
> 
> As I said, Pallywood to a T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would anyone want war criminals pimping their propaganda on US campuses?
Click to expand...



The already warned SJP were the pimps in this case.
Not only they were warned to not interrupt any other pro Israel or anything else on campus, they were shown to be violent by chanting incitements against anyone who attempted to go to that event.

Pay attention.

The war criminals are on the Arab/Muslim side.  You simply choose not to notice it.

All thanks to "Pallywood" !!!


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Recovering a sovereign nation, free in its' land. Independence from captivity of Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a settler colonial invasion undertaken through the support of the British.  No more, no less. Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.
Click to expand...


I find no historical (vs. your hysterical) claim to support your nonsense "invasion" meme. It's remarkable that you just make stuff up and expect others to accept your hysterics as anything but nonsense.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.



Actually, the opposite is true.  Trying to pretend that the Jewish return to their ancestral homeland is in any way equivalent to invasion and colonization by exploitative, dominant cultures is bullshit.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the opposite is true.  Trying to pretend that the Jewish return to their ancestral homeland is in any way equivalent to invasion and colonization by exploitative, dominant cultures is bullshit.
Click to expand...


Just because the invading settler colonists practiced Judaism, doesn't change the facts.  The European Jews stated formally they planned to colonize Palestine with British help, subjugating the native people was a side issue.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the opposite is true.  Trying to pretend that the Jewish return to their ancestral homeland is in any way equivalent to invasion and colonization by exploitative, dominant cultures is bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because the invading settler colonists practiced Judaism, doesn't change the facts.  The European Jews stated formally they planned to colonize Palestine with British help, subjugating the native people was a side issue.
Click to expand...


There is a fundamental difference between returning to one's ancestral homeland and Imperialist invasion and colonization.  Trying to make those things equivalent because they are Jooooos rings hollow, at best, and venomously antisemitic at worse.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the opposite is true.  Trying to pretend that the Jewish return to their ancestral homeland is in any way equivalent to invasion and colonization by exploitative, dominant cultures is bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because the invading settler colonists practiced Judaism, doesn't change the facts.  The European Jews stated formally they planned to colonize Palestine with British help, subjugating the native people was a side issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a fundamental difference between returning to one's ancestral homeland and Imperialist invasion and colonization.  Trying to make those things equivalent because they are Jooooos rings hollow, at best, and venomously antisemitic at worse.
Click to expand...

Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the opposite is true.  Trying to pretend that the Jewish return to their ancestral homeland is in any way equivalent to invasion and colonization by exploitative, dominant cultures is bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because the invading settler colonists practiced Judaism, doesn't change the facts.  The European Jews stated formally they planned to colonize Palestine with British help, subjugating the native people was a side issue.
Click to expand...

Well, similarly, just because the invading, settler colonists as represented by the Turks, Islamist hordes and European xtian Crusaders practiced various religions doesn't change the facts. 

Do you know what facts are?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?



What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?  

For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
Click to expand...

Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.

Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?
Click to expand...


1)  Show us those records of citizenship.

2)  Judea is the birthplace of Christianity.

At the time Jesus was born, and even when he died, the area was known as Judea.  That is where he and all Jews around Jerusalem, Galilllee, etc were born.
That is the area the Romans changed the name.
From Judea to :

Judea (Roman province) - Wikipedia

The Roman province of *Judea* (Hebrew: יהודה, Standard _Yehuda_ Tiberian_Yehûḏāh_; Arabic: يهودا‎‎; Greek: Ἰουδαία _Ioudaia_; Latin: _Iūdaea_), sometimes spelled in its original Latin forms of *Iudæa* or *Iudaea* to distinguish it from the geographical region of Judea, incorporated the regions of Judea, Samaria and Idumea, and extended over parts of the former regions of the Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel. It was named after Herod Archelaus's Tetrarchy of Judea, but the Roman province encompassed a much larger territory. The name "Judea" was derived from the Kingdom of Judah of the 6th century BCE.

The province of Judea was the scene of unrest at its founding in 6 CE during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish–Roman Wars. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE as part of the Great Jewish Revolt, resulting in the institution of the Fiscus Judaicus, and after Bar Kokhba's revolt (132–135), the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to _Syria Palaestina_ and Jerusalem to _Aelia Capitolina_, which certain scholars conclude was an attempt to remove the relationship of the Jewish people to the region.





---------------
You are a Christian.  You should respect the place where Jesus was born and not keep changing its name because you were taught to hate Jews.

There was no _Syria Palaestina_  or _Aelia Capitolina_, at the time Jesus was born and Christianity came to be.

Use the terms which existed then.  Judea, Samaria, Galilee.

There was no Palestine, and there were no Palestinians.

There were Jews, like Jesus, living in a place known as the Roman Province of Judea until 135 CE when the Romans changed the names of Judea and Jerusalem to attempt to make the Jews forget about their ancient homeland.

The End.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1)  Show us those records of citizenship.
> 
> 2)  Judea is the birthplace of Christianity.
> 
> At the time Jesus was born, and even when he died, the area was known as Judea.  That is where he and all Jews around Jerusalem, Galilllee, etc were born.
> That is the area the Romans changed the name.
> From Judea to :
> 
> Judea (Roman province) - Wikipedia
> 
> The Roman province of *Judea* (Hebrew: יהודה, Standard _Yehuda_ Tiberian_Yehûḏāh_; Arabic: يهودا‎‎; Greek: Ἰουδαία _Ioudaia_; Latin: _Iūdaea_), sometimes spelled in its original Latin forms of *Iudæa* or *Iudaea* to distinguish it from the geographical region of Judea, incorporated the regions of Judea, Samaria and Idumea, and extended over parts of the former regions of the Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel. It was named after Herod Archelaus's Tetrarchy of Judea, but the Roman province encompassed a much larger territory. The name "Judea" was derived from the Kingdom of Judah of the 6th century BCE.
> 
> The province of Judea was the scene of unrest at its founding in 6 CE during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish–Roman Wars. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE as part of the Great Jewish Revolt, resulting in the institution of the Fiscus Judaicus, and after Bar Kokhba's revolt (132–135), the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to _Syria Palaestina_ and Jerusalem to _Aelia Capitolina_, which certain scholars conclude was an attempt to remove the relationship of the Jewish people to the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> You are a Christian.  You should respect the place where Jesus was born and not keep changing its name because you were taught to hate Jews.
> 
> There was no _Syria Palaestina_  or _Aelia Capitolina_, at the time Jesus was born and Christianity came to be.
> 
> Use the terms which existed then.  Judea, Samaria, Galilee.
> 
> There was no Palestine, and there were no Palestinians.
> 
> There were Jews, like Jesus, living in a place known as the Roman Province of Judea until 135 CE when the Romans changed the names of Judea and Jerusalem to attempt to make the Jews forget about their ancient homeland.
> 
> The End.
Click to expand...

That's funny. The maps in my Bible call the place Palestine Pastors I have heard call the Place Palestine.

Just sayin'.


----------



## rylah

Before anything...have You been reading here recently, or do You only read Your own stuff?



P F Tinmore said:


> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews.



Don't be ridiculous,
Yes You can, in every demographic record of the land there're Jews. The people of the land.



P F Tinmore said:


> It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.



Deek tactic. You dodge what You just said and twist it to the opposite.
It's a tiny ethno-religious group, that is a tribe with a land a and a culture centered around the land that bears its' name.
Or do You need* Ottoman *records of ALL the Jews and Israelis that have been buried there through the 3500 yrs?



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity.


יהודה וגליל are the birth places of that Jewish sect. Or يهودا and الجليل الغربي



P F Tinmore said:


> I am a Christian.
> Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?



You have tried. Romans then the Crusades did that. Jews remained a minority in their ancestral lands.
Even the infamous al-Quds Mufti recognized that his furniture stands upon the ruins, and BECAUSE of the ruins of the Jewish people.

However You have about 13 officially recognized Christian nations. Not including Russian church and all their related national churches.
Christian state - Wikipedia

Only one Jewish Hebrew nation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to claim the European invasion and colonization of Palestine is different from any other European colonial project is bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the opposite is true.  Trying to pretend that the Jewish return to their ancestral homeland is in any way equivalent to invasion and colonization by exploitative, dominant cultures is bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because the invading settler colonists practiced Judaism, doesn't change the facts.  The European Jews stated formally they planned to colonize Palestine with British help, subjugating the native people was a side issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a fundamental difference between returning to one's ancestral homeland and Imperialist invasion and colonization.  Trying to make those things equivalent because they are Jooooos rings hollow, at best, and venomously antisemitic at worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
Click to expand...


You never deal with that, always dodge that point.
And there's of course the appropriate thread that claims to make it "less difficult" for You to understand, and why You should stop being pretentious. The conversation about furniture, too is appropriate there.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1)  Show us those records of citizenship.
> 
> 2)  Judea is the birthplace of Christianity.
> 
> At the time Jesus was born, and even when he died, the area was known as Judea.  That is where he and all Jews around Jerusalem, Galilllee, etc were born.
> That is the area the Romans changed the name.
> From Judea to :
> 
> Judea (Roman province) - Wikipedia
> 
> The Roman province of *Judea* (Hebrew: יהודה, Standard _Yehuda_ Tiberian_Yehûḏāh_; Arabic: يهودا‎‎; Greek: Ἰουδαία _Ioudaia_; Latin: _Iūdaea_), sometimes spelled in its original Latin forms of *Iudæa* or *Iudaea* to distinguish it from the geographical region of Judea, incorporated the regions of Judea, Samaria and Idumea, and extended over parts of the former regions of the Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel. It was named after Herod Archelaus's Tetrarchy of Judea, but the Roman province encompassed a much larger territory. The name "Judea" was derived from the Kingdom of Judah of the 6th century BCE.
> 
> The province of Judea was the scene of unrest at its founding in 6 CE during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish–Roman Wars. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE as part of the Great Jewish Revolt, resulting in the institution of the Fiscus Judaicus, and after Bar Kokhba's revolt (132–135), the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to _Syria Palaestina_ and Jerusalem to _Aelia Capitolina_, which certain scholars conclude was an attempt to remove the relationship of the Jewish people to the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> You are a Christian.  You should respect the place where Jesus was born and not keep changing its name because you were taught to hate Jews.
> 
> There was no _Syria Palaestina_  or _Aelia Capitolina_, at the time Jesus was born and Christianity came to be.
> 
> Use the terms which existed then.  Judea, Samaria, Galilee.
> 
> There was no Palestine, and there were no Palestinians.
> 
> There were Jews, like Jesus, living in a place known as the Roman Province of Judea until 135 CE when the Romans changed the names of Judea and Jerusalem to attempt to make the Jews forget about their ancient homeland.
> 
> The End.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's funny. The maps in my Bible call the place Palestine Pastors I have heard call the Place Palestine.
> 
> Just sayin'.
Click to expand...


Can Your pastor spell 'Palestine' in its' original  language, and explain to You what the word actually means in the local language?
The best thing You can do is claim ownership of Arabian tribes through the legendary_ "sea people'_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Finally, there is the matter of a separate Palestinian ethno-national consciousness and its relationship to settler-colonialism. Claims to find a separate Palestinian ethnic identity as far back as the 17th century are unpersuasive. Instead, the idea developed as an elite concept in the years immediately before and especially after World War I, vying with far deeper and more resilient tribal and religious identities. The nationalization of the masses occurred gradually over the next few decades, propelled in part by tragedies largely foisted on them by their leaders, notably the “Arab Revolt” of 1936-39, the rejection of partition in 1947, the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49, and the subsequent, rather local, dispersal of refugees into the 1950s. Palestinian nationalism and identity are largely reactive and secondary, pointing to the fact that settler-colonial identity was primarily tribal and religious, the latter imperial by definition.
> 
> During the 19th and 20th centuries, a mythology of the “timeless” Palestinians took root. During the earlier period, this was a European Orientalist trope: the Palestinians as living “fossils” who reflected the lifeways of the Bible. It was later adopted for strategic reasons by the Palestinians themselves as a political and cultural retort to the Zionist return to the land. That usage was perhaps understandable, if ironic; but it reaches a _reductio ad absurdum_ in Erekat’s claim to have had Upper Paleolithic ancestors.
> 
> It is, then, the Palestinians who are the settler-colonialists, not the Jews or even the Zionists. Does this realization change anything? Does removing a term from the rejectionist toolbox bring the cause of negotiation and peace any closer? This seems unlikely. But in the longer term, facing certain truths will be necessary for Palestinians and Israelis alike. One is that rejection of Israel, at its core, is not a function of Palestinian nationalism and local identity but Islamic religious opposition to Jewish autonomy and sovereignty. Another is that tendentious categories like “settler-colonialism,” which ironically undermine Palestinian claims to indigenous status, should be dispensed with in favor of honest appraisals of history.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Settler-Colonialism


_Alex Joffe is an archaeologist and historian. He is a Shillman-Ginsburg Fellow at the Middle East Forum. 
_
No bias here.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, there is the matter of a separate Palestinian ethno-national consciousness and its relationship to settler-colonialism. Claims to find a separate Palestinian ethnic identity as far back as the 17th century are unpersuasive. Instead, the idea developed as an elite concept in the years immediately before and especially after World War I, vying with far deeper and more resilient tribal and religious identities. The nationalization of the masses occurred gradually over the next few decades, propelled in part by tragedies largely foisted on them by their leaders, notably the “Arab Revolt” of 1936-39, the rejection of partition in 1947, the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49, and the subsequent, rather local, dispersal of refugees into the 1950s. Palestinian nationalism and identity are largely reactive and secondary, pointing to the fact that settler-colonial identity was primarily tribal and religious, the latter imperial by definition.
> 
> During the 19th and 20th centuries, a mythology of the “timeless” Palestinians took root. During the earlier period, this was a European Orientalist trope: the Palestinians as living “fossils” who reflected the lifeways of the Bible. It was later adopted for strategic reasons by the Palestinians themselves as a political and cultural retort to the Zionist return to the land. That usage was perhaps understandable, if ironic; but it reaches a _reductio ad absurdum_ in Erekat’s claim to have had Upper Paleolithic ancestors.
> 
> It is, then, the Palestinians who are the settler-colonialists, not the Jews or even the Zionists. Does this realization change anything? Does removing a term from the rejectionist toolbox bring the cause of negotiation and peace any closer? This seems unlikely. But in the longer term, facing certain truths will be necessary for Palestinians and Israelis alike. One is that rejection of Israel, at its core, is not a function of Palestinian nationalism and local identity but Islamic religious opposition to Jewish autonomy and sovereignty. Another is that tendentious categories like “settler-colonialism,” which ironically undermine Palestinian claims to indigenous status, should be dispensed with in favor of honest appraisals of history.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Settler-Colonialism
> 
> 
> 
> _Alex Joffe is an archaeologist and historian. He is a Shillman-Ginsburg Fellow at the Middle East Forum.
> _
> No bias here.
Click to expand...


You are an expert in what ?
You teach History and Archeology, where?
Your pastor is an expert in what?
He teaches History and Archeology, where?

Either one of you know the History of Judaism or Islam?

Either one of you actually know how the Roman Province of Judea ended up being called Syria Palestinia in 135 CE?

Either one of you actually know who the Romans fought against to keep the Province in their hands from the time they took over the area to the time the Roman Empire ceased to exist?

Do not shrink from any of these questions.

You and your pastor either know what you are talking about, or neither one of you does.

As the thread asks, Who Are the Palestinians?
Where do they come from?
What connection do they have to the land?
Was there ever a "Historical Palestine" as the Arabs continue to say?
Was there ever an "Ancient Palestine" with a Palestinian People and a history?
Where is the documented proof of it?
Where are the Archeological remains of these people, of their ruins, or their cities, of their lives on that land?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



I ask you for archeological and historical proof that those who call themselves Palestinians, and are Arabs, and all you continue to post are Arabs who since 1964 have come to call themselves "Palestinians', with their very recent "Palestinian" history - all thanks to the Ottomans losing WWI and all the land they held on to, and a Mandate named Palestine.

As the Arabs have said it themselves, they considered themselves to be Syrians, and wanted to belong to Greater Syria after WWI.
NOT  Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1)  Show us those records of citizenship.
> 
> 2)  Judea is the birthplace of Christianity.
> 
> At the time Jesus was born, and even when he died, the area was known as Judea.  That is where he and all Jews around Jerusalem, Galilllee, etc were born.
> That is the area the Romans changed the name.
> From Judea to :
> 
> Judea (Roman province) - Wikipedia
> 
> The Roman province of *Judea* (Hebrew: יהודה, Standard _Yehuda_ Tiberian_Yehûḏāh_; Arabic: يهودا‎‎; Greek: Ἰουδαία _Ioudaia_; Latin: _Iūdaea_), sometimes spelled in its original Latin forms of *Iudæa* or *Iudaea* to distinguish it from the geographical region of Judea, incorporated the regions of Judea, Samaria and Idumea, and extended over parts of the former regions of the Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel. It was named after Herod Archelaus's Tetrarchy of Judea, but the Roman province encompassed a much larger territory. The name "Judea" was derived from the Kingdom of Judah of the 6th century BCE.
> 
> The province of Judea was the scene of unrest at its founding in 6 CE during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish–Roman Wars. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE as part of the Great Jewish Revolt, resulting in the institution of the Fiscus Judaicus, and after Bar Kokhba's revolt (132–135), the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to _Syria Palaestina_ and Jerusalem to _Aelia Capitolina_, which certain scholars conclude was an attempt to remove the relationship of the Jewish people to the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> You are a Christian.  You should respect the place where Jesus was born and not keep changing its name because you were taught to hate Jews.
> 
> There was no _Syria Palaestina_  or _Aelia Capitolina_, at the time Jesus was born and Christianity came to be.
> 
> Use the terms which existed then.  Judea, Samaria, Galilee.
> 
> There was no Palestine, and there were no Palestinians.
> 
> There were Jews, like Jesus, living in a place known as the Roman Province of Judea until 135 CE when the Romans changed the names of Judea and Jerusalem to attempt to make the Jews forget about their ancient homeland.
> 
> The End.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's funny. The maps in my Bible call the place Palestine Pastors I have heard call the Place Palestine.
> 
> Just sayin'.
Click to expand...


Palestine was the name for a loosely defined geographic area. 

Indeed. 

I've heard the geographic area of the mid-south of _The Great Satan_™ called The Bible Belt, also a loosely defined geographic area. 

Just sayin'.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1)  Show us those records of citizenship.
> 
> 2)  Judea is the birthplace of Christianity.
> 
> At the time Jesus was born, and even when he died, the area was known as Judea.  That is where he and all Jews around Jerusalem, Galilllee, etc were born.
> That is the area the Romans changed the name.
> From Judea to :
> 
> Judea (Roman province) - Wikipedia
> 
> The Roman province of *Judea* (Hebrew: יהודה, Standard _Yehuda_ Tiberian_Yehûḏāh_; Arabic: يهودا‎‎; Greek: Ἰουδαία _Ioudaia_; Latin: _Iūdaea_), sometimes spelled in its original Latin forms of *Iudæa* or *Iudaea* to distinguish it from the geographical region of Judea, incorporated the regions of Judea, Samaria and Idumea, and extended over parts of the former regions of the Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel. It was named after Herod Archelaus's Tetrarchy of Judea, but the Roman province encompassed a much larger territory. The name "Judea" was derived from the Kingdom of Judah of the 6th century BCE.
> 
> The province of Judea was the scene of unrest at its founding in 6 CE during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish–Roman Wars. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE as part of the Great Jewish Revolt, resulting in the institution of the Fiscus Judaicus, and after Bar Kokhba's revolt (132–135), the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to _Syria Palaestina_ and Jerusalem to _Aelia Capitolina_, which certain scholars conclude was an attempt to remove the relationship of the Jewish people to the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> You are a Christian.  You should respect the place where Jesus was born and not keep changing its name because you were taught to hate Jews.
> 
> There was no _Syria Palaestina_  or _Aelia Capitolina_, at the time Jesus was born and Christianity came to be.
> 
> Use the terms which existed then.  Judea, Samaria, Galilee.
> 
> There was no Palestine, and there were no Palestinians.
> 
> There were Jews, like Jesus, living in a place known as the Roman Province of Judea until 135 CE when the Romans changed the names of Judea and Jerusalem to attempt to make the Jews forget about their ancient homeland.
> 
> The End.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's funny. The maps in my Bible call the place Palestine Pastors I have heard call the Place Palestine.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was the name for a loosely defined geographic area.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I've heard the geographic area of the mid-south of _The Great Satan_™ called The Bible Belt, also a loosely defined geographic area.
> 
> Just sayin'.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Palestine was the name for a loosely defined geographic area.


With international borders and citizens.

Who are you trying to fool?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship. I don't see similar records for the Jews. It is possible that some do, but you can't broad brush an entire religion.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that mean I can go there, kick somebody out of his house, and start carrying in furniture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1)  Show us those records of citizenship.
> 
> 2)  Judea is the birthplace of Christianity.
> 
> At the time Jesus was born, and even when he died, the area was known as Judea.  That is where he and all Jews around Jerusalem, Galilllee, etc were born.
> That is the area the Romans changed the name.
> From Judea to :
> 
> Judea (Roman province) - Wikipedia
> 
> The Roman province of *Judea* (Hebrew: יהודה, Standard _Yehuda_ Tiberian_Yehûḏāh_; Arabic: يهودا‎‎; Greek: Ἰουδαία _Ioudaia_; Latin: _Iūdaea_), sometimes spelled in its original Latin forms of *Iudæa* or *Iudaea* to distinguish it from the geographical region of Judea, incorporated the regions of Judea, Samaria and Idumea, and extended over parts of the former regions of the Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel. It was named after Herod Archelaus's Tetrarchy of Judea, but the Roman province encompassed a much larger territory. The name "Judea" was derived from the Kingdom of Judah of the 6th century BCE.
> 
> The province of Judea was the scene of unrest at its founding in 6 CE during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish–Roman Wars. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE as part of the Great Jewish Revolt, resulting in the institution of the Fiscus Judaicus, and after Bar Kokhba's revolt (132–135), the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to _Syria Palaestina_ and Jerusalem to _Aelia Capitolina_, which certain scholars conclude was an attempt to remove the relationship of the Jewish people to the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> You are a Christian.  You should respect the place where Jesus was born and not keep changing its name because you were taught to hate Jews.
> 
> There was no _Syria Palaestina_  or _Aelia Capitolina_, at the time Jesus was born and Christianity came to be.
> 
> Use the terms which existed then.  Judea, Samaria, Galilee.
> 
> There was no Palestine, and there were no Palestinians.
> 
> There were Jews, like Jesus, living in a place known as the Roman Province of Judea until 135 CE when the Romans changed the names of Judea and Jerusalem to attempt to make the Jews forget about their ancient homeland.
> 
> The End.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's funny. The maps in my Bible call the place Palestine Pastors I have heard call the Place Palestine.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was the name for a loosely defined geographic area.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I've heard the geographic area of the mid-south of _The Great Satan_™ called The Bible Belt, also a loosely defined geographic area.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was the name for a loosely defined geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With international borders and citizens.
> 
> Who are you trying to fool?
Click to expand...


You should learn to define your terms. The geographic area called The Bible Belt has a population of people living within its loosely defined geographic area. They are citizens of a country you might call _The Great Satan_™. Despite your insistence, ranting and false premises, the geographic area called Palestine was never a "country". The area was controlled by the Turks. 

I would never try to fool a fool. They're better at foolishness than I am.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel plants trees
Arabs destroy them, again and again

Arson intifada in Israel's north


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

That's too bad. The Islamic holy month of violence and killing is over. 

Well good. Now time for gluttony and more violence and killing.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship.
Click to expand...


But citizenship is not ancestry.  You imply that ancestry gives some sort of legitimacy but then refuse to apply that definition to all peoples.  You demand proof of ancestry for one group, while only proof of citizenship for the other.  Thus an Arab family from elsewhere who buys a farm in "Palestine" in the 1930s is, according to you, a legitimate Palestinian while a Jewish family from elsewhere who buys a farm in "Palestine" in the 1930s is, according to you, a foreign invader. 

You can't have it both ways.  Either citizenship is the criteria we are using -- in which case both families listed above are legitimate.  OR foreign familial birth is the criteria -- in which case neither of the families listed above are legitimate.  Or ancestry is the criteria, which you have been unable to provide a definition for. 

What criteria are you using to determine, in practice, who are "settler colonists" and "foreign invaders"?  YOU are actually defining people as "foreign invaders" using their cultural and religious background as the criteria for that definition.  You never use the terms "foreign invaders" or "settler colonists" when referring to people of Arabic cultural and religious background -- you use that exclusively for Jewish people.

So how about if I use the same criteria that you use -- their cultural and religious background?  How to prove ancestry? Easy.  Does their cultural and religious background match with the indigenous, pre-invasion culture?  Well, let's check.  Same language.  Same religion.  Same system of laws.  Same holidays.  Same life celebrations.  Same traditional foods.  Same traditional names.  Same clothing.  (etc, etc, etc).  Well, well.  It appears that it DOES, indeed, match.  Ancestry proven.  Using, actually, the same criteria that you use. 

Now, let's check to see if I can apply that universally and objectively.  I'm of Scots ancestry.  I actually know that for certain because we have physical documentation of my family moving to Canada from Scotland.  But let's say I didn't have that documentation.  But I spoke Gaelic.  And I celebrated uniquely Scottish holidays.  And I wore a plaid which was passed down from generation to generation.  And I named my children traditional Gaelic names.  And we had parritch for breakfast most mornings.  Would you be reasonably convinced that I had Scots ancestry?  Of course you would.

See how that works?  Works pretty well, I think.  And we can apply it anywhere.  To all cultures.  To all peoples.  And it turns out that its pretty easy to recognize a Jew.  Jewish culture is pretty darn definitive.  Much easier than recognizing a Scot.  Or a Dane.  Or a Swede.

Now, you can accept that criteria and keep using it to define your "foreign invaders", but you are a hypocrite if you do not ALSO use that same criteria for proof of ancestry. 

Or you can reject that criteria and reject the premise of ancestry all together and stick to using only non-cultural definitions of "foreign invaders", but you will be a hypocrite if you do not ALSO do that when describing the Jewish people. 

My, my. Quite a corner you have painted yourself into, isn't it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> That's too bad. The Islamic holy month of violence and killing is over.
> 
> Well good. Now time for gluttony and more violence and killing.


I didn't see any violence until Israel sent in its goons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But citizenship is not ancestry.  You imply that ancestry gives some sort of legitimacy but then refuse to apply that definition to all peoples.  You demand proof of ancestry for one group, while only proof of citizenship for the other.  Thus an Arab family from elsewhere who buys a farm in "Palestine" in the 1930s is, according to you, a legitimate Palestinian while a Jewish family from elsewhere who buys a farm in "Palestine" in the 1930s is, according to you, a foreign invader.
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  Either citizenship is the criteria we are using -- in which case both families listed above are legitimate.  OR foreign familial birth is the criteria -- in which case neither of the families listed above are legitimate.  Or ancestry is the criteria, which you have been unable to provide a definition for.
> 
> What criteria are you using to determine, in practice, who are "settler colonists" and "foreign invaders"?  YOU are actually defining people as "foreign invaders" using their cultural and religious background as the criteria for that definition.  You never use the terms "foreign invaders" or "settler colonists" when referring to people of Arabic cultural and religious background -- you use that exclusively for Jewish people.
> 
> So how about if I use the same criteria that you use -- their cultural and religious background?  How to prove ancestry? Easy.  Does their cultural and religious background match with the indigenous, pre-invasion culture?  Well, let's check.  Same language.  Same religion.  Same system of laws.  Same holidays.  Same life celebrations.  Same traditional foods.  Same traditional names.  Same clothing.  (etc, etc, etc).  Well, well.  It appears that it DOES, indeed, match.  Ancestry proven.  Using, actually, the same criteria that you use.
> 
> Now, let's check to see if I can apply that universally and objectively.  I'm of Scots ancestry.  I actually know that for certain because we have physical documentation of my family moving to Canada from Scotland.  But let's say I didn't have that documentation.  But I spoke Gaelic.  And I celebrated uniquely Scottish holidays.  And I wore a plaid which was passed down from generation to generation.  And I named my children traditional Gaelic names.  And we had parritch for breakfast most mornings.  Would you be reasonably convinced that I had Scots ancestry?  Of course you would.
> 
> See how that works?  Works pretty well, I think.  And we can apply it anywhere.  To all cultures.  To all peoples.  And it turns out that its pretty easy to recognize a Jew.  Jewish culture is pretty darn definitive.  Much easier than recognizing a Scot.  Or a Dane.  Or a Swede.
> 
> Now, you can accept that criteria and keep using it to define your "foreign invaders", but you are a hypocrite if you do not ALSO use that same criteria for proof of ancestry.
> 
> Or you can reject that criteria and reject the premise of ancestry all together and stick to using only non-cultural definitions of "foreign invaders", but you will be a hypocrite if you do not ALSO do that when describing the Jewish people.
> 
> My, my. Quite a corner you have painted yourself into, isn't it?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> YOU are actually defining people as "foreign invaders" using their cultural and religious background as the criteria for that definition.


No I don't. I go by the reason they are there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's too bad. The Islamic holy month of violence and killing is over.
> 
> Well good. Now time for gluttony and more violence and killing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see any violence until Israel sent in its goons.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Of course you didn't. Islamism is, after all, _The Religion of Peace_™. 

That's why there's such peace and happiness across the Islamist Middle East.


----------



## fanger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of those Jews "returning" have any evidence that they have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you require for "proof" that could be applied objectively and universally?
> 
> For example, how would you apply the concept of "proof" to First Nations Americans?  Or to Catalans?  Or to Kurds?  Or to Scots?  Or, for that matter, to "Palestinians"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, the Palestinians have records of citizenship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But citizenship is not ancestry.  You imply that ancestry gives some sort of legitimacy but then refuse to apply that definition to all peoples.  You demand proof of ancestry for one group, while only proof of citizenship for the other.  Thus an Arab family from elsewhere who buys a farm in "Palestine" in the 1930s is, according to you, a legitimate Palestinian while a Jewish family from elsewhere who buys a farm in "Palestine" in the 1930s is, according to you, a foreign invader.
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  Either citizenship is the criteria we are using -- in which case both families listed above are legitimate.  OR foreign familial birth is the criteria -- in which case neither of the families listed above are legitimate.  Or ancestry is the criteria, which you have been unable to provide a definition for.
> 
> What criteria are you using to determine, in practice, who are "settler colonists" and "foreign invaders"?  YOU are actually defining people as "foreign invaders" using their cultural and religious background as the criteria for that definition.  You never use the terms "foreign invaders" or "settler colonists" when referring to people of Arabic cultural and religious background -- you use that exclusively for Jewish people.
> 
> So how about if I use the same criteria that you use -- their cultural and religious background?  How to prove ancestry? Easy.  Does their cultural and religious background match with the indigenous, pre-invasion culture?  Well, let's check.  Same language.  Same religion.  Same system of laws.  Same holidays.  Same life celebrations.  Same traditional foods.  Same traditional names.  Same clothing.  (etc, etc, etc).  Well, well.  It appears that it DOES, indeed, match.  Ancestry proven.  Using, actually, the same criteria that you use.
> 
> Now, let's check to see if I can apply that universally and objectively.  I'm of Scots ancestry.  I actually know that for certain because we have physical documentation of my family moving to Canada from Scotland.  But let's say I didn't have that documentation.  But I spoke Gaelic.  And I celebrated uniquely Scottish holidays.  And I wore a plaid which was passed down from generation to generation.  And I named my children traditional Gaelic names.  And we had parritch for breakfast most mornings.  Would you be reasonably convinced that I had Scots ancestry?  Of course you would.
> 
> See how that works?  Works pretty well, I think.  And we can apply it anywhere.  To all cultures.  To all peoples.  And it turns out that its pretty easy to recognize a Jew.  Jewish culture is pretty darn definitive.  Much easier than recognizing a Scot.  Or a Dane.  Or a Swede.
> 
> Now, you can accept that criteria and keep using it to define your "foreign invaders", but you are a hypocrite if you do not ALSO use that same criteria for proof of ancestry.
> 
> Or you can reject that criteria and reject the premise of ancestry all together and stick to using only non-cultural definitions of "foreign invaders", but you will be a hypocrite if you do not ALSO do that when describing the Jewish people.
> 
> My, my. Quite a corner you have painted yourself into, isn't it?
Click to expand...

"parritch" would make you of parrot decent, a true Scot would eat porridge


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> No I don't. I go by the reason they are there.



Oh give me a break.  You assign meaning to "the reason they are there" based on their cultural background.  You posted a story of a family of (Arab) foreign invaders from elsewhere as a heroes of "Palestine".  Why weren't they "stealing land"?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sarsour magically changed from white to a "woman of color" in an instant!

She's the new Rachel Dolezal!

By the way, you are not allowed to criticize my blog anymore. I wear a yarmulka, which make me a "Jew of color" and therefore immune to criticism. At least by the logic of some people.

(full article online)

The amazing color-changing Linda Sarsour ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>




There are no 5 Million Palestinian refugees. 
Those who lett in 1948 because their leaders told them to, or were expelled because they fought against Israel are dead, or nearly all dead.
The number is more like 20,000 now.

When the Muslims and UNWRA does build a conscience and stops using unwanted human beings to destroy Israel and kill Jews, the Palestinian refugee plight will come to an end and they will be treated like any other refugee.
Meaning:  They will be allowed to become citizens of their host countries, be it Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, USA, Saudi Arabia, England, France, etc etc where they have moved to.

And when Hamas and Fatah put an end to their desire to destroy Israel, those people will become citizens of Gaza and or the Palestinian State once both declare Independence, just as Israel did, as the Kurds wish to do.

As it was done with Iraq, Syria, Lebanon once they accomplished what was required to become a State.  As Jordan did.  As Israel did.

Cry the poor victims of Jew hatred a river. 

Get rid of that hatred and one will get rid of the suffering imposed on so many by groups like Hamas and Fatah and other Arab Leaders.


GET RID OF THE HATRED FOR JEWS !!


Treat Jews and Arabs who have no money or power like people.

They all deserve it.

It will end the Arab-Israel conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no 5 Million Palestinian refugees.
> Those who lett in 1948 because their leaders told them to, or were expelled because they fought against Israel are dead, or nearly all dead.
> The number is more like 20,000 now.
> 
> When the Muslims and UNWRA does build a conscience and stops using unwanted human beings to destroy Israel and kill Jews, the Palestinian refugee plight will come to an end and they will be treated like any other refugee.
> Meaning:  They will be allowed to become citizens of their host countries, be it Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, USA, Saudi Arabia, England, France, etc etc where they have moved to.
> 
> And when Hamas and Fatah put an end to their desire to destroy Israel, those people will become citizens of Gaza and or the Palestinian State once both declare Independence, just as Israel did, as the Kurds wish to do.
> 
> As it was done with Iraq, Syria, Lebanon once they accomplished what was required to become a State.  As Jordan did.  As Israel did.
> 
> Cry the poor victims of Jew hatred a river.
> 
> Get rid of that hatred and one will get rid of the suffering imposed on so many by groups like Hamas and Fatah and other Arab Leaders.
> 
> 
> GET RID OF THE HATRED FOR JEWS !!
> 
> 
> Treat Jews and Arabs who have no money or power like people.
> 
> They all deserve it.
> 
> It will end the Arab-Israel conflict.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, more Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no 5 Million Palestinian refugees.
> Those who lett in 1948 because their leaders told them to, or were expelled because they fought against Israel are dead, or nearly all dead.
> The number is more like 20,000 now.
> 
> When the Muslims and UNWRA does build a conscience and stops using unwanted human beings to destroy Israel and kill Jews, the Palestinian refugee plight will come to an end and they will be treated like any other refugee.
> Meaning:  They will be allowed to become citizens of their host countries, be it Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, USA, Saudi Arabia, England, France, etc etc where they have moved to.
> 
> And when Hamas and Fatah put an end to their desire to destroy Israel, those people will become citizens of Gaza and or the Palestinian State once both declare Independence, just as Israel did, as the Kurds wish to do.
> 
> As it was done with Iraq, Syria, Lebanon once they accomplished what was required to become a State.  As Jordan did.  As Israel did.
> 
> Cry the poor victims of Jew hatred a river.
> 
> Get rid of that hatred and one will get rid of the suffering imposed on so many by groups like Hamas and Fatah and other Arab Leaders.
> 
> 
> GET RID OF THE HATRED FOR JEWS !!
> 
> 
> Treat Jews and Arabs who have no money or power like people.
> 
> They all deserve it.
> 
> It will end the Arab-Israel conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, more Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...

I relayed your thoughts to the Israeli Knesset and they still don't give a shit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no 5 Million Palestinian refugees.
> Those who lett in 1948 because their leaders told them to, or were expelled because they fought against Israel are dead, or nearly all dead.
> The number is more like 20,000 now.
> 
> When the Muslims and UNWRA does build a conscience and stops using unwanted human beings to destroy Israel and kill Jews, the Palestinian refugee plight will come to an end and they will be treated like any other refugee.
> Meaning:  They will be allowed to become citizens of their host countries, be it Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, USA, Saudi Arabia, England, France, etc etc where they have moved to.
> 
> And when Hamas and Fatah put an end to their desire to destroy Israel, those people will become citizens of Gaza and or the Palestinian State once both declare Independence, just as Israel did, as the Kurds wish to do.
> 
> As it was done with Iraq, Syria, Lebanon once they accomplished what was required to become a State.  As Jordan did.  As Israel did.
> 
> Cry the poor victims of Jew hatred a river.
> 
> Get rid of that hatred and one will get rid of the suffering imposed on so many by groups like Hamas and Fatah and other Arab Leaders.
> 
> 
> GET RID OF THE HATRED FOR JEWS !!
> 
> 
> Treat Jews and Arabs who have no money or power like people.
> 
> They all deserve it.
> 
> It will end the Arab-Israel conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, more Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...



Yeap, all I wrote would be Israeli bullshit to a peace loving, full of goodness for his fellowman, Christian like you.

You truly love the Palestinian people and want them to be free.

Or you truly hate the Jewish people and want them all to be dead.

I think the latter is closer to the truth.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces have detained a prominent activist after he called for PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas to resign, _The Associated Press_ reported Monday.

A lawyer representing Issa Amro, an activist from Hevron, said his client was arrested after posting his comments on Facebook.

In addition, according to _AP_, Ayman Qawasmi, a Palestinian Arab reporter, was arrested on Sunday after writing that Abbas should resign for “failing to protect the Palestinian people.”

(full article online)

PA activist detained after calling for Abbas to resign


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Fascinating:

A Muslim tradition, not a Palestinian one, where the Muslims claim that the Al Aqsa Mosque is the third most important site of Islam (never before 1948), where Clowns are allowed to perform and so many other things not worthy of worshiping a religious place are allowed to happen.

All to celebrate something the Muslims borrowed 100% from the Jews.
The Patriarch Abraham sacrifice of his son, and all the Jewish history after it, transferred to his other son Ishmael, who did not marry an Arab and did not create the Arab people they now insist is their ancestral history.

It is absolutely sad that so much Arab tribal history has been now forgotten or destroyed to give place to the amazingly endless robbery of the Jewish History, culture, etc.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Sacrifice a lamb, sacrifice a Jew....on the Temple Mount, Islam's third holiest site, cough, cough]


IDF and Shin Bet forces arrested an Arab from the village of Beit Awwa in the South Hevron Hills on suspicions of incitement and support for a hostile organization.

The suspect, Nagy Mohammed Alswiti, a senior employee in the office of the PA preventive security chief in Jenin, published content on Facebook in which he called for violent acts against Jews, and expressed praise and support for acts of terror.

(full article online)

Incitement on Facebook: 'Spill blood on the Dome of the Rock'


----------



## Sixties Fan

At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering. 

Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?

To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well. 

And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.

(full article online)

Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Looks like a peaceful protest to me.


----------



## Shusha

Besides, they have the right to resist occupation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tamimi was included in a list of “human rights defenders” in a recent report by S. Michael Lynk, the UN special rapporteur on human rights in the disputed territories.

In response, NGO Monitor, a Jerusalem-based organization that tracks the activities and funding of self-described human rights groups, informed the U.N. Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights that Tamimi has during the past two years authored tweets such as: “Vampire zionist celebrating their Kebore day [written on Yom Kippur] by drinking Palestinian bloods, yes our blood is pure & delicious but it will kill u at the end.” In another tweet Aug. 1, 2015, she said, “I do hate israel, i do hate zionism, i wish a third Intefada coming soon and people rais up and kills all these zionist settlers everywhere.”

In a Twitter exchange Aug. 20 with NGO Monitor spokesman Daniel Laufer, Tamimi wrote, “I’m not a Jew heater [sic], I have a very good Jew friends, I hate Zionists & I’m not denying that, Zionism, KKK and ISIS R all same 4 me.”

In response to the NGO Monitor complaint, the U.N. agency removed Tamimi from the roster of “human rights defenders” in Lynk’s report.

(full article online)

(full article online)

Palestinian ‘Supermom’ Says ‘Vampire Zionists’ Drink Arab Blood


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering.
> 
> Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?
> 
> To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well.
> 
> And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?


Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.

How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering.
> 
> Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?
> 
> To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well.
> 
> And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?
> 
> 
> Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.
> 
> How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.
Click to expand...


(Video 1)  
From a comment of the video on youtube
"what is the reason that the army is doing this? If you dig you will find that these shopkeepers have built their shops on land that is not theirs. If you build a store on land you don't own - then you have to move."

[What, Palestinian Arabs building on land which is not theirs, in 2007?]
-----------------
(Video 2 )Oops!!!  No Permit !!!  Tsk, tsk, tsk !!!

The Dutch gamble
------------------
(video 3)  Ooops, another State Land

*Here is what really happened.*

On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.

The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN

----------------

Horrible Israelis or thieving Palestinians and their European supporters?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering.
> 
> Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?
> 
> To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well.
> 
> And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?
> 
> 
> Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.
> 
> How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (Video 1)
> From a comment of the video on youtube
> "what is the reason that the army is doing this? If you dig you will find that these shopkeepers have built their shops on land that is not theirs. If you build a store on land you don't own - then you have to move."
> 
> [What, Palestinian Arabs building on land which is not theirs, in 2007?]
> -----------------
> (Video 2 )Oops!!!  No Permit !!!  Tsk, tsk, tsk !!!
> 
> The Dutch gamble
> ------------------
> (video 3)  Ooops, another State Land
> 
> *Here is what really happened.*
> 
> On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.
> 
> The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Horrible Israelis or thieving Palestinians and their European supporters?
Click to expand...

How can Israel have "state land" in Palestine?

And then these assholes are too stupid to figure out why people throw stones and shoot rockets.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



This looks bad. Although they certainly began filming in the middle of what was going on. But looks bad.

However Hebron is a special case. It needs solution as much as Jerusalem. An preferably no just a political one. 
It's where Ishmael and Israel buried Abraham our Father together in respect.

There're people to talk to in Hebron on both sides, again it's much more than politics:


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering.
> 
> Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?
> 
> To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well.
> 
> And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?
> 
> 
> Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.
> 
> How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (Video 1)
> From a comment of the video on youtube
> "what is the reason that the army is doing this? If you dig you will find that these shopkeepers have built their shops on land that is not theirs. If you build a store on land you don't own - then you have to move."
> 
> [What, Palestinian Arabs building on land which is not theirs, in 2007?]
> -----------------
> (Video 2 )Oops!!!  No Permit !!!  Tsk, tsk, tsk !!!
> 
> The Dutch gamble
> ------------------
> (video 3)  Ooops, another State Land
> 
> *Here is what really happened.*
> 
> On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.
> 
> The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Horrible Israelis or thieving Palestinians and their European supporters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can Israel have "state land" in Palestine?
> 
> And then these assholes are too stupid to figure out why people throw stones and shoot rockets.
Click to expand...


LOl, there you go again.

How can the STATE of Israel have State Land?

You figure it out.  Take your time.

You want an answer to your comment?
Look up the Arab/Muslim education (from the Quran to present) and you should find the answer .


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> *Here is what really happened.*
> 
> On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.
> 
> The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN



A really good article.  Thank you.  And I'll just point out that the Nassar family are settlers, not Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This looks bad. Although they certainly began filming in the middle of what was going on. But looks bad.
> 
> However Hebron is a special case. It needs solution as much as Jerusalem. An preferably no just a political one.
> It's where Ishmael and Israel buried Abraham our Father together in respect.
> 
> There're people to talk to in Hebron on both sides, again it's much more than politics:
Click to expand...


Looking bad is not the same as being bad, as the reason for those Israelis throwing rocks is not clear, and I could not find a comment as to what happened in the video.

History wise, the Jews were attacked and murdered and then expelled from Hebron in 1929.  Not allowed to return until after 1967.

From the same year as the video in question:

Three children were lightly injured on Tuesday when Palestinians threw stones at a kindergarten in the Avraham Avinu neighborhood of Hebron. The children were treated by local paramedics.

One of the injured children was the sister Shalhevet Pass, an infant who was killed by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron in 2001, the Hebrew news site Ynet reported.

Three Jewish children lightly hurt in Hebron stoning


Jews are having a hard time getting back their properties in Hebron and other areas of Judea and Samaria, taken by the Arabs and later by the Hashemites of Jordan in 1948.


Who is the settler and who was the one with 3000 years of continuous presence in that city and all over Israel ?

Who wants to expel whom? (And who has already done it, several times, from several areas of Israel and by force?)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering.
> 
> Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?
> 
> To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well.
> 
> And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?
> 
> 
> Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.
> 
> How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (Video 1)
> From a comment of the video on youtube
> "what is the reason that the army is doing this? If you dig you will find that these shopkeepers have built their shops on land that is not theirs. If you build a store on land you don't own - then you have to move."
> 
> [What, Palestinian Arabs building on land which is not theirs, in 2007?]
> -----------------
> (Video 2 )Oops!!!  No Permit !!!  Tsk, tsk, tsk !!!
> 
> The Dutch gamble
> ------------------
> (video 3)  Ooops, another State Land
> 
> *Here is what really happened.*
> 
> On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.
> 
> The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Horrible Israelis or thieving Palestinians and their European supporters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can Israel have "state land" in Palestine?
> 
> And then these assholes are too stupid to figure out why people throw stones and shoot rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOl, there you go again.
> 
> How can the STATE of Israel have State Land?
> 
> You figure it out.  Take your time.
> 
> You want an answer to your comment?
> Look up the Arab/Muslim education (from the Quran to present) and you should find the answer .
Click to expand...

Israel can have state land inside its own borders.

Oh wait!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, the “Palestinian narrative” is winning, hands down. This should not be happening, not only because the facts do not support that story but because the Jewish story is so much more glorious and empowering.
> 
> Why would you root for the story of the perpetual victim when you could choose the story of those who miraculously overcame all odds? Why would you choose the story of violence and hate over the story of self-sacrifice and love?
> 
> To put it in a completely different light, the “Palestinian” narrative is most damaging to Arabs. Their story does not inspire the creation of a better life for the downtrodden. In fact, it is a story that keeps the downtrodden, down. It teaches Arab youth that they are victims of the Jew, that the path to improving their lives is to throw their own lives away in attempt to be rid of the Jews. Instead of teaching life, this story teaches death – for the Jew and often for the Arab as well.
> 
> And while the majority of the Arab population is busy hating the Jew, fighting the Jew, Arab rulers are busy enjoying the opulence of their corruption. The Arab people suffer while their rulers have access to all the comforts and pleasures of life. More than it is used against the Jewish people, the “Palestinian” narrative is used by Arab and Muslim leaders to distract, control and retain power over their own people.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unravelling the “narrative” (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?
> 
> 
> Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.
> 
> How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (Video 1)
> From a comment of the video on youtube
> "what is the reason that the army is doing this? If you dig you will find that these shopkeepers have built their shops on land that is not theirs. If you build a store on land you don't own - then you have to move."
> 
> [What, Palestinian Arabs building on land which is not theirs, in 2007?]
> -----------------
> (Video 2 )Oops!!!  No Permit !!!  Tsk, tsk, tsk !!!
> 
> The Dutch gamble
> ------------------
> (video 3)  Ooops, another State Land
> 
> *Here is what really happened.*
> 
> On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.
> 
> The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Horrible Israelis or thieving Palestinians and their European supporters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can Israel have "state land" in Palestine?
> 
> And then these assholes are too stupid to figure out why people throw stones and shoot rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOl, there you go again.
> 
> How can the STATE of Israel have State Land?
> 
> You figure it out.  Take your time.
> 
> You want an answer to your comment?
> Look up the Arab/Muslim education (from the Quran to present) and you should find the answer .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can have state land inside its own borders.
> 
> Oh wait!!!
Click to expand...


The US can have State land inside its own borders.

Oh, wait!!!!   Yes it can !!!!

To be more precise, in the US it is called Federal land

Federal land ownership by state - Ballotpedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are full of shit, as usual. Why don't the Palestinians build a life?
> 
> 
> Daoud Nassar talks about saving his family's land, the Tent of Nations. In May 2014 *1,500 trees were uprooted* in the middle of the night.
> 
> How can Palestinians build a life when the assholes keep destroying it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Video 1)
> From a comment of the video on youtube
> "what is the reason that the army is doing this? If you dig you will find that these shopkeepers have built their shops on land that is not theirs. If you build a store on land you don't own - then you have to move."
> 
> [What, Palestinian Arabs building on land which is not theirs, in 2007?]
> -----------------
> (Video 2 )Oops!!!  No Permit !!!  Tsk, tsk, tsk !!!
> 
> The Dutch gamble
> ------------------
> (video 3)  Ooops, another State Land
> 
> *Here is what really happened.*
> 
> On May 11 2014 Nassar received an order from the Israeli authorities to stop cultivating the orchards. The order stated that the orchards were on ‘state land’ and that cultivating the land was forbidden by law. The authorities ordered the removal of the trees. The plots in question are situated in a valley hundreds of meters away from Nassar’s farm.
> 
> The missing piece in the story about Daoud Nassar’s trees | Missing Peace | missingpeace.eu | EN
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Horrible Israelis or thieving Palestinians and their European supporters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can Israel have "state land" in Palestine?
> 
> And then these assholes are too stupid to figure out why people throw stones and shoot rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOl, there you go again.
> 
> How can the STATE of Israel have State Land?
> 
> You figure it out.  Take your time.
> 
> You want an answer to your comment?
> Look up the Arab/Muslim education (from the Quran to present) and you should find the answer .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can have state land inside its own borders.
> 
> Oh wait!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US can have State land inside its own borders.
> 
> Oh, wait!!!!   Yes it can !!!!
Click to expand...

How much state land does the US claim in Canada?


----------



## rylah

Rabi Yaakov Elyashr, son of Rabi Haim Yosef Elyashr.
Born in Hebron 1730, studied Torah in the schools of Hebron and became one of the leaders of the community. In 1773 he went abroad on a mission to represent the Sephardic  schools of Hebron. And later on a mission to represent the  community of Jerusalem in the towns of Kurdistan.
While in Basra the Persian shah declared war on the city and all the Jews were in great danger, however the the threats were in vain. In remembrance of that incident he composed a long scroll, 
the "Persian scroll" or "Scroll of Elyashr" that the Jews of Basra and their families usually read on 2nd of Nisan.
3834 | Encyclopedia of the Founders and Builders of Israel


in the the picture is his son Rabi Yaakov Shaul Elyashr


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How much state land does the US claim in Canada?



Canada and the US have a treaty which defines the borders between their two States (with some disputes).

Jordan and Israel ALSO have a treat which defines the borders between their two States.  

Why do you accept the one and not the other?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much state land does the US claim in Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada and the US have a treaty which defines the borders between their two States (with some disputes).
> 
> Jordan and Israel ALSO have a treat which defines the borders between their two States.
> 
> Why do you accept the one and not the other?
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> [
> Nice deflection.



Not in the slightest.  You were asking how one State could claim land belonging to another State.  I'm demonstrating that you are applying different rules to the States of Canada and the US than you are to Israel and Jordan.  See Canada and the US have a border based on a treaty which states clearly which land is our land and which land is your land.  We know whose land is whose because of that treaty.  With Israel and Jordan it is the same.  There is a border based on a treaty between these two States which says clearly which land is our land and which land is your land.  We know whose land is whose because of that treaty.  Its actually simple in the extreme.  

You are (again) trying to set up a false premise:  that the US claiming Canada's land is the equivalent to Israel claiming "Palestinian" land.  But the equivalent would be Israel claiming Jordan's land.  It is those two States which have an agreement about borders and whose land is whose.  "Palestine" has no treaties with anyone and therefore no borders with anyone.  So there would be no legal way to tell what is hers and what is her neighbors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Nice deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the slightest.  You were asking how one State could claim land belonging to another State.  I'm demonstrating that you are applying different rules to the States of Canada and the US than you are to Israel and Jordan.  See Canada and the US have a border based on a treaty which states clearly which land is our land and which land is your land.  We know whose land is whose because of that treaty.  With Israel and Jordan it is the same.  There is a border based on a treaty between these two States which says clearly which land is our land and which land is your land.  We know whose land is whose because of that treaty.  Its actually simple in the extreme.
> 
> You are (again) trying to set up a false premise:  that the US claiming Canada's land is the equivalent to Israel claiming "Palestinian" land.  But the equivalent would be Israel claiming Jordan's land.  It is those two States which have an agreement about borders and whose land is whose.  "Palestine" has no treaties with anyone and therefore no borders with anyone.  So there would be no legal way to tell what is hers and what is her neighbors.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> "Palestine" has no treaties with anyone and therefore no borders with anyone. So there would be no legal way to tell what is hers and what is her neighbors.


Not true. Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. These borders have not changed since 1922.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Not true. Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. These borders have not changed since 1922.



The State of Israel (formerly known by the geographical term "Palestine") has borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt (easily demonstrated with treaties signed by the Government of Israel). We agree those borders have not changed.  

What you fail to come up with is a Government of Palestine (as differentiated from the Government of Israel which is now the State with sovereignty over the territory formerly called Palestine) and evidence that that Government has the capacity to enter into agreements with other States.  Show me the treaties!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. These borders have not changed since 1922.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The State of Israel (formerly known by the geographical term "Palestine") has borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt (easily demonstrated with treaties signed by the Government of Israel). We agree those borders have not changed.
> 
> What you fail to come up with is a Government of Palestine (as differentiated from the Government of Israel which is now the State with sovereignty over the territory formerly called Palestine) and evidence that that Government has the capacity to enter into agreements with other States.  Show me the treaties!
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman.

Palestine's borders have not changed since 1922.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nabi Saleh: 'It's a silent ethnic cleansing'*

Residents of the West Bank village stage frequent protests to fight back against Israel's occupation.

*



*
*In Nabi Saleh, the Tamimi family became famous after a video showed Ahed, then 14, biting an Israeli soldier's hand in an attempt to free her brother from his grasp [Jaclynn Ashly/Al Jazeera]*

Meanwhile, hundreds of dunams of Nabi Saleh's lands have been confiscated for the purposes of building Israel's illegal Halamish settlement, whose residents have burned hundreds of the village's olive trees - attacks that escalated after the protests began. In 2009, the village's water spring was also confiscated for the use of the settlers.

*Nabi Saleh: 'It's a silent ethnic cleansing'*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's borders have not changed since 1922.



We agree.  They have not.  The State of Israel has not given away a bit of that land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nabi Saleh: 'It's a silent ethnic cleansing'*



Silent ethnic cleansing.  You know, where no one is actually ethnically cleansed.  

Kinda like slow genocides where the population is exploding.  

And apartheids where the only discriminatory laws actually favor the "oppressed".  

Sheesh.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nabi Saleh: 'It's a silent ethnic cleansing'*
> 
> Residents of the West Bank village stage frequent protests to fight back against Israel's occupation.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *In Nabi Saleh, the Tamimi family became famous after a video showed Ahed, then 14, biting an Israeli soldier's hand in an attempt to free her brother from his grasp [Jaclynn Ashly/Al Jazeera]*
> 
> Meanwhile, hundreds of dunams of Nabi Saleh's lands have been confiscated for the purposes of building Israel's illegal Halamish settlement, whose residents have burned hundreds of the village's olive trees - attacks that escalated after the protests began. In 2009, the village's water spring was also confiscated for the use of the settlers.
> 
> *Nabi Saleh: 'It's a silent ethnic cleansing'*



A rulling Qatari tribe fights the "occupation of THEIR lands"??


----------



## Sixties Fan

Murderer who slaughtered 3 Israelis 
honored in the PA 

PA and PLO officials visited the murderer's family

Op-ed in official PA daily praised murderer:
"Your name has been perpetuated in the Palestinian wedding songs"

Song performed at wedding glorified murderer:
"He crossed the mountain top with a knife...
he laid the Zionists down to sleep...
[He] avenged the Al-Aqsa Mosque...
He stood before the [Israeli] judge with his head held up high"


Family of murderer: "We are pleased with what he did"

Comments to Fatah Facebook post of murderer in court:
"May Allah release him"
"A crown on the heads of men"

(full article online)

Slaughterer of 3 Israelis honored in the PA - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

_“Palestine” is actually the nation of Israel, asserts a Palestinian Christian who used to hate the Jewish state._

A Palestinian Christian growing up in America was taught by his parents that Israel stole their land and murdered their people. College students in America and Palestinians he met on a visit to Ramallah strengthened those beliefs, inspiring him to join the incitement and violence against the Jewish state.

Since then, however, Mazzen has learned the truth and speaks up for Israel.

(vide video online)

WATCH: Palestinian Christian Says ‘There is No Such Thing as Palestine’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ayman Qawasmeh and Issa Amro would have been better off being arrested by Israeli authorities. Had that happened, their stories would have made it to the pages of major Western newspapers. CNN or NBC might have dedicated an entire program to their ordeal. Without a way for the Western media outlets to implicate Israel, however, their tale remains buried -- along with their freedom.


The group also points out that it has documented some 472 cases of deaths consequent to torture in Syrian detention centers and prisons over the past few years.


Would anyone like to know about the true apartheid laws applied to Palestinians in different Arab countries? The information is readily available: all that needs to happen is for the Western media and the rest of the international community to reconsider their obsession with Israel and to start paying attention to the real Palestinian victims -- those living in the Arab countries.

(full article online)

The Forgotten Palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Ayman Qawasmeh and Issa Amro would have been better off being arrested by Israeli authorities. Had that happened, their stories would have made it to the pages of major Western newspapers. CNN or NBC might have dedicated an entire program to their ordeal. Without a way for the Western media outlets to implicate Israel, however, their tale remains buried -- along with their freedom.
> 
> 
> The group also points out that it has documented some 472 cases of deaths consequent to torture in Syrian detention centers and prisons over the past few years.
> 
> 
> Would anyone like to know about the true apartheid laws applied to Palestinians in different Arab countries? The information is readily available: all that needs to happen is for the Western media and the rest of the international community to reconsider their obsession with Israel and to start paying attention to the real Palestinian victims -- those living in the Arab countries.
> (full article online)
> 
> The Forgotten Palestinians


Palestinians are foreigners in those other countries. The solution is to allow them back home.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ayman Qawasmeh and Issa Amro would have been better off being arrested by Israeli authorities. Had that happened, their stories would have made it to the pages of major Western newspapers. CNN or NBC might have dedicated an entire program to their ordeal. Without a way for the Western media outlets to implicate Israel, however, their tale remains buried -- along with their freedom.
> 
> 
> The group also points out that it has documented some 472 cases of deaths consequent to torture in Syrian detention centers and prisons over the past few years.
> 
> 
> Would anyone like to know about the true apartheid laws applied to Palestinians in different Arab countries? The information is readily available: all that needs to happen is for the Western media and the rest of the international community to reconsider their obsession with Israel and to start paying attention to the real Palestinian victims -- those living in the Arab countries.
> (full article online)
> 
> The Forgotten Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are foreigners in those other countries. The solution is to allow them back home.
Click to expand...


Arabia is calling them !!!!

Go, Arabs, go home to Arabia -  Egyptians, Lebanese, Iranian, Syrian, Moroccan, Lybian Arabs.

Allah is calling you and awaits with open arms.   

Salam


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **



Why do You post the same videos of people who intentionally twist quotes for $$$?
If only she could bear full 2 minutes before she starts to falsify information.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians are foreigners in those other countries. The solution is to allow them back home.





Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile

History
Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.* 
*http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf*








*Shammar tribe*
The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with an estimated around *12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million in Saudi Arabia(concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrian population thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar*.[1] The current seat of the* tribe's leadership is in the city of **Mosul** in Northern Iraq. *In its "golden age",* around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.Should every Arabian tribe get a piece of of that tiny land??
2.When are Jews getting back their lands in Medina?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority is a Genocidal Terrorist Entity and Should be Treated as Such | The Jewish Press | Guy Millière | 16 Elul 5777 – September 7, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat*


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noura Erakat*



Can diplomacy make Hamas destroy its charter of destruction of Israel?

Can Hamas not hide amongst civilian towns and people?

Isn't it amazing how they count bodies.
If we have more of them, we are the victims.
And in a sense they are.  They are victims of Islamic mentality where life is absolutely meaningless.
If Muslims must choose between territory and life, they will choose territory.

Do you have anything more recent than this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can diplomacy make Hamas destroy its charter of destruction of Israel?
> 
> Can Hamas not hide amongst civilian towns and people?
> 
> Isn't it amazing how they count bodies.
> If we have more of them, we are the victims.
> And in a sense they are.  They are victims of Islamic mentality where life is absolutely meaningless.
> If Muslims must choose between territory and life, they will choose territory.
> 
> Do you have anything more recent than this?
Click to expand...

More Israeli talking points just like that Israeli clown in the video.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can diplomacy make Hamas destroy its charter of destruction of Israel?
> 
> Can Hamas not hide amongst civilian towns and people?
> 
> Isn't it amazing how they count bodies.
> If we have more of them, we are the victims.
> And in a sense they are.  They are victims of Islamic mentality where life is absolutely meaningless.
> If Muslims must choose between territory and life, they will choose territory.
> 
> Do you have anything more recent than this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli talking points just like that Israeli clown in the video.
Click to expand...


Diplomacy is an Israeli talking point?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Noura Erakat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can diplomacy make Hamas destroy its charter of destruction of Israel?
> 
> Can Hamas not hide amongst civilian towns and people?
> 
> Isn't it amazing how they count bodies.
> If we have more of them, we are the victims.
> And in a sense they are.  They are victims of Islamic mentality where life is absolutely meaningless.
> If Muslims must choose between territory and life, they will choose territory.
> 
> Do you have anything more recent than this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli talking points just like that Israeli clown in the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Diplomacy is an Israeli talking point?
Click to expand...

Diplomacy is an excuse. "Let's talk forever while we steal more land."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Islamist talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cults Terrorist Expo


----------



## Sixties Fan

After explaining what happened, Amnesty International takes the PA to task for clamping down on free speech:

Issa Amro, a Hebron-based coordinator for Youth Against Settlements and a former field researcher for the Israeli NGO B’Tselem, was detained at around midday local time today by Palestinian Preventive Security Forces, after he posted comments on his Facebook page criticizing the arrest of a local radio journalist [Ayman Qawasmeh] yesterday by the same Palestinian security forces.


(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Arrests Human Rights Activist - Must Be Israel's Fault! - Israel Diaries


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Nina Turner Show: On Solidarity with Linda Sarsour and Winnie Wong*

**


----------



## Hollie

Linda Sarsour’s Terrorist Friend Stripped Of Citizenship, Permanently Banned From U.S.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Nina Turner Show: Call In Culture with Linda Sarsour*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh*
*Rania Khalek*

Blacklisted, Smeared & Silenced For Exposing NATO Destabilization Of Syria
**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Revealed: Munich Olympic terror mastermind’s drunken life in Prague


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Child Abuse  
By the Palestinians
Who insist that this child's land has been stolen
Who do not disperse when they are told to
Well taught child about how the "Zionists stole 'Palestine' "
Where is the whole video, tin man?
Provide the one off youtube if you have it, please.

What a nice group of "Palestinians" to have a child do the job of an adult


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Janna Jihad: Meet Palestine's 10-year-old journalist

----------
Same village the Tamimi Clan comes from.

Enough said ?

Nabi Salih - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janna Jihad: Meet Palestine's 10-year-old journalist
> 
> ----------
> Same village the Tamimi Clan comes from.
> 
> Enough said ?
> 
> Nabi Salih - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is always Israeli goontards attacking civilians on their own land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Janna Jihad: Meet Palestine's 10-year-old journalist


Such a lovely young lady.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists dressed as civilians.  Tin man's heroes.  
The poor, poor Palestinians  
The Tamimi family which uses and abuses its children to continue a anti Israel narrative (story)
They live in Area A of Judea and Samaria, administered by Fatah.  It would become the State of Palestine if only they would all put their weapons down and demand that their government, the very messed up government, negotiates a Peace Treaty with Israel.
What they want is ALL of Israel.

But, lets get to the truth:

The IDF did not kill Mustafa Tamimi


----------



## Hollie

Poor, Tinmore. The forever Jooooo hater, flailing his Pom Poms for his Death Cult heroes, even when those heroes are abused children.  

Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred

*Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred*

By now, Janna is ten and is known as “Janna Jihad” — the Tamimi clan’s newest child star who is cleverly employed to mask their well-documented support for terror and Jew-hatred by presenting the “resistance” they advocate as entirely innocent and outright heart-warming.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Poor, Tinmore. The forever Jooooo hater, flailing his Pom Poms for his Death Cult heroes, even when those heroes are abused children.
> 
> Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred
> 
> *Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred*
> 
> By now, Janna is ten and is known as “Janna Jihad” — the Tamimi clan’s newest child star who is cleverly employed to mask their well-documented support for terror and Jew-hatred by presenting the “resistance” they advocate as entirely innocent and outright heart-warming.


Interesting hit piece.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Terrorists dressed as civilians.  Tin man's heroes.
> The poor, poor Palestinians
> The Tamimi family which uses and abuses its children to continue a anti Israel narrative (story)
> They live in Area A of Judea and Samaria, administered by Fatah.  It would become the State of Palestine if only they would all put their weapons down and demand that their government, the very messed up government, negotiates a Peace Treaty with Israel.
> What they want is ALL of Israel.
> 
> But, lets get to the truth:
> 
> The IDF did not kill Mustafa Tamimi


Oooo, you plated the terrorist card.

Good boy.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor, Tinmore. The forever Jooooo hater, flailing his Pom Poms for his Death Cult heroes, even when those heroes are abused children.
> 
> Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred
> 
> *Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred*
> 
> By now, Janna is ten and is known as “Janna Jihad” — the Tamimi clan’s newest child star who is cleverly employed to mask their well-documented support for terror and Jew-hatred by presenting the “resistance” they advocate as entirely innocent and outright heart-warming.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting hit piece.
Click to expand...


Nice deflection.

Yours is a creepy fascination with pre-teen female children.


----------



## Hollie

The linked article nicely incapsulates the insanity that we in the West continue to make allowances for: Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises masquerading as "Pal'istanians".

Hard lessons tell us that there is no “peace process” Islamics of the Middle East will respect. Similarly, no amount of infidel money thrown at the Arabs-Moslems parading around as "Pal'istanians" is going to assuage the Islamist beast.


Perspective | Palestinians are rewarding terrorists. The U.S. should stop enabling them.

Palestinians are rewarding terrorists. The U.S. should stop enabling them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The linked article nicely incapsulates the insanity that we in the West continue to make allowances for: Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises masquerading as "Pal'istanians".
> 
> Hard lessons tell us that there is no “peace process” Islamics of the Middle East will respect. Similarly, no amount of infidel money thrown at the Arabs-Moslems parading around as "Pal'istanians" is going to assuage the Islamist beast.
> 
> 
> Perspective | Palestinians are rewarding terrorists. The U.S. should stop enabling them.
> 
> Palestinians are rewarding terrorists. The U.S. should stop enabling them.


Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The linked article nicely incapsulates the insanity that we in the West continue to make allowances for: Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises masquerading as "Pal'istanians".
> 
> Hard lessons tell us that there is no “peace process” Islamics of the Middle East will respect. Similarly, no amount of infidel money thrown at the Arabs-Moslems parading around as "Pal'istanians" is going to assuage the Islamist beast.
> 
> 
> Perspective | Palestinians are rewarding terrorists. The U.S. should stop enabling them.
> 
> Palestinians are rewarding terrorists. The U.S. should stop enabling them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


Your usual deflection by way of worn out cut and paste slogans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Children should be taught to love and respect, not to hate and kill


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Children should be taught to love and respect, not to hate and kill


Says the guy who killed thousands of Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Children should be taught to love and respect, not to hate and kill
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who killed thousands of Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Why the whining? Your Islamic terrorist heroes have launched 10,000 rockets at Israel since 2006 in addition to suicide bombings, street killings and other acts of Islamic terrorism. 

Israelis have the right to resist Islamic terrorist attacks and to respond to those attacks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Children should be taught to love and respect, not to hate and kill
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who killed thousands of Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the whining? Your Islamic terrorist heroes have launched 10,000 rockets at Israel since 2006 in addition to suicide bombings, street killings and other acts of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Israelis have the right to resist Islamic terrorist attacks and to respond to those attacks.
Click to expand...

Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Children should be taught to love and respect, not to hate and kill
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who killed thousands of Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the whining? Your Islamic terrorist heroes have launched 10,000 rockets at Israel since 2006 in addition to suicide bombings, street killings and other acts of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Israelis have the right to resist Islamic terrorist attacks and to respond to those attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
Click to expand...


Link? (To your usual chicken feed).


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians, to whom every loss is a win ]
[Inspecting cars in East Jerusalem, formerly the Jewish Quarter until 1948, FOR  JEWS  ]

An Israeli singer and his family were attacked by an Arab lynch mob in eastern Jerusalem Saturday night, following a concert at a hotel near the Mount of Olives.

Avi Miller, a haredi singer who performed for guests at the Seven Arches Hotel Saturday evening, says he and his family were attacked by a mob of some 150 local Arabs who had blocked traffic in the Abu Tor neighborhood of the capital and were inspecting passing cars for Jews.

(vide video online)

'They were hunting for Jews car by car, I had no choice'


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.



This from the guy who defines crimes by the ethnicity of the victim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This from the guy who defines crimes by the ethnicity of the victim.
Click to expand...

Only Israel can commit all the crimes it wants and they don't count.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Only Israel can commit all the crimes it wants and they don't count.



Of course crimes committed by the Israeli government, or by individual Israelis "count".  But we never get to talk about that because we are too busy fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.  

If we could spend less time addressing the fundamentally repugnant ideas you and others present, we would be able to discuss ways in which Israel could improve her behaviour.  

As Humanity has already point out today, you do no service to the Palestinian people as a whole and their seeking self-determination in particular.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This from the guy who defines crimes by the ethnicity of the victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only Israel can commit all the crimes it wants and they don't count.
Click to expand...


You know that is not true, but you will say it anyway.

I'll tell you what !

Let us all, and I do mean ALL ...write to the Knesset and have them pass laws which will

1) forbid Israel from hiring Arabs from Gaza
2) forbid Israel from hiring Arabs from Judea and Samaria
3) forbid Israel from giving medical assistance to Arabs in Gaza
4) forbid Israel from giving medical assistance to Arabs in Judea and Samaria, and let us include Jordan as well.
5) forbid Israel from allowing any Arabs to come to Israel to    study in any of its schools and Universities
6) forbid all Arabs from coming into Israel during Ramadan
7) forbid all Arabs who live outside  Israel to come in as tourists
8) forbid anymore electricity or water to be serviced for Gaza and Areas A and B
9) Demand that Gaza and the PA pay all debts incurred for electricity and water which Israel has supplied, and put an end to that service once and for all
10) Demand that all the Arabs who took over the homes of Jews
in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem post 1948 return those homes and move out of Israel if not happy.
11) Make all Imams who live in Israel and preach against Israel....leave Israel.
12)  Make all Arabs who are against the State of Israel leave Israel.  They do not feel like Israelis, they do not have to be one.
13)  During any next war, the IDF should stop Roof knocking and simple attack.  Enough with the saving of lives.
14)  If Gaza starts another war, put an end to Hamas and all the other terrorist groups in it, once and for all. Message to Iran received.
15)  If Hezbollah decides to use the thousands of rockets/weapons (courtesy of Iran ) for another war, put an end to Hezbollah and send a strong message to Iran. Free Lebanon!
16)  Repeat medicine as needed, where needed.

------------
Then tin man you can cry on any forum that the Israeli actions are "unacceptable".

What is truly unacceptable  is Israel allowing the Arabs to continue to behave as they do, and not doing much to stop them.

Jews are not Dhimmis anymore.  They do not have to be treated or behave as if they were.

No extortions from the Hashemites, or threats, no nothing from any Arab or Arab countries.

Done.

Israel lives.
The people of Israel live.
And bring progress to the part of the world where they prefer to live like cave people.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(These are the Arab Palestinian Leaders.  Arrest all who befriend Israelis)

PA arrests Hebron man for hosting Likud MK for Eid holiday


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.


I have never said that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never said that.
Click to expand...


What exactly did you say.  Clarify.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly did you say.  Clarify.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean.

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly did you say.  Clarify.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


No links necessary.
Reread what Susha said.
What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.

You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly did you say.  Clarify.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No links necessary.
> Reread what Susha said.
> What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.
> 
> You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.
Click to expand...

She is always saying I said things I didn't.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> fending off ridiculous arguments like the one you make saying that international law permits the killing of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What exactly did you say.  Clarify.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No links necessary.
> Reread what Susha said.
> What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.
> 
> You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is always saying I said things I didn't.
Click to expand...


That is not so and you know it.
Are you going to make us believe that you do not know what you are saying in your posts?

Should you revisit all of your posts and remind yourself of the things you have written so far?

We do not have a bad memory about what you say.

Is that the issue?  Bad memory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never said that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly did you say.  Clarify.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No links necessary.
> Reread what Susha said.
> What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.
> 
> You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is always saying I said things I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not so and you know it.
> Are you going to make us believe that you do not know what you are saying in your posts?
> 
> Should you revisit all of your posts and remind yourself of the things you have written so far?
> 
> We do not have a bad memory about what you say.
> 
> Is that the issue?  Bad memory?
Click to expand...

No links, huh.

Nice duck.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly did you say.  Clarify.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No links necessary.
> Reread what Susha said.
> What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.
> 
> You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is always saying I said things I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not so and you know it.
> Are you going to make us believe that you do not know what you are saying in your posts?
> 
> Should you revisit all of your posts and remind yourself of the things you have written so far?
> 
> We do not have a bad memory about what you say.
> 
> Is that the issue?  Bad memory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No links, huh.
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


That is your homework to do, not mine.

Link your head off.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No links necessary.
> Reread what Susha said.
> What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.
> 
> You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She is always saying I said things I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not so and you know it.
> Are you going to make us believe that you do not know what you are saying in your posts?
> 
> Should you revisit all of your posts and remind yourself of the things you have written so far?
> 
> We do not have a bad memory about what you say.
> 
> Is that the issue?  Bad memory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No links, huh.
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is your homework to do, not mine.
> 
> Link your head off.
Click to expand...

So I am supposed to find something I didn't say?

Uhhh, OK.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No links necessary.
> Reread what Susha said.
> What is it exactly that you believe in and what is it exactly that you may have said at one point or another.
> 
> You are the one who knows what you believe in, so tell us what is it that you believe in that would contradict Susha's evaluation of what you usually say.
> 
> 
> 
> She is always saying I said things I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not so and you know it.
> Are you going to make us believe that you do not know what you are saying in your posts?
> 
> Should you revisit all of your posts and remind yourself of the things you have written so far?
> 
> We do not have a bad memory about what you say.
> 
> Is that the issue?  Bad memory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No links, huh.
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is your homework to do, not mine.
> 
> Link your head off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So I am supposed to find something I didn't say?
> 
> Uhhh, OK.
Click to expand...


Next you are going to say that you do not play games with your short sentences  

Folks!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians ]

The terrorist uploaded to his Facebook page a video titled "May your morning be perfumed with the scene of shahids." In the video, the terrorist said his goodbyes to his family and friends, and praised previous martyrs. He also said he was "leaving to Israel to carry out an 'act' and may not return. Those close to the terrorist responded, "May God accept you[r sacrifice]."

The terrorist then sold his cellular phone for 400 shekels ($114) and paid a professional to smuggle him into pre-1967 Israel. He reached the city of Netanya at approximately 5:00 p.m. and walked around a few hours in search of an appropriate victim.

(full article online)

'He published a farewell video - then went to murder Jews'


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*There truly is a sickness that afflicks those in the Islamic terrorist enclaves of fatah'istan. 



PA Governor lauds Martyrs’ perfumed blood - PMW Bulletins


PA Governor lauds Martyrs’ perfumed blood:*

*Gov. of Ramallah:*

*The Martyrs “perfume[d] the ground with the scent of their blood” and “saturated the land of Palestine with the fragrance of their blood”*
*Fatah:*

*“Glory and eternal life to our righteous Martyrs; your participation [in a ceremony] is loyalty to the Martyrs' blood"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the early years after 1967, infidels could go in the mosques when there was no prayer; and the Esplanade was open to the public. Now the Waqf has declared the entire site sacred. They tightly control access, keeping infidels, especially Jews, out, and by Israelis trying to control weapons from getting smuggled in. That hardly seems like a healthy situation, at least not to anyone hoping for a two-state solution of democracies living side-by-side.

Can a journalist tell the story so it looks like Israel’s fault? Easily: it’s about Palestinian anger. And it so pleases the Palestinians to tell it that way. Why not? On the contrary, there are many “good” reasons not to tell it any other way. Few journalists seem eager to cross the Palestinians.

The dilemma this incident presents to Israel is a paradigmatic one.

Says the Caliphater: I’m invading; don’t resist. If you resist, I’ll go crazy with violence, so go quietly. Da’wa phase or Jihad phase? Your choice.

This dynamic is obviously a burning issue in the “holy” land, where Palestinians constantly push for further concessions, where suicide bombing first got its sanctified start, and the threat of another explosion always hangs in the air. But infidels around the world need to understand that this is also how Caliphaters plan to defeat the rest of the Western world. And given their astonishing success on Western campuses, they have good reason to believe it will work.

(full article online)

Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In the early years after 1967, infidels could go in the mosques when there was no prayer; and the Esplanade was open to the public. Now the Waqf has declared the entire site sacred. They tightly control access, keeping infidels, especially Jews, out, and by Israelis trying to control weapons from getting smuggled in. That hardly seems like a healthy situation, at least not to anyone hoping for a two-state solution of democracies living side-by-side.
> 
> Can a journalist tell the story so it looks like Israel’s fault? Easily: it’s about Palestinian anger. And it so pleases the Palestinians to tell it that way. Why not? On the contrary, there are many “good” reasons not to tell it any other way. Few journalists seem eager to cross the Palestinians.
> 
> The dilemma this incident presents to Israel is a paradigmatic one.
> 
> Says the Caliphater: I’m invading; don’t resist. If you resist, I’ll go crazy with violence, so go quietly. Da’wa phase or Jihad phase? Your choice.
> 
> This dynamic is obviously a burning issue in the “holy” land, where Palestinians constantly push for further concessions, where suicide bombing first got its sanctified start, and the threat of another explosion always hangs in the air. But infidels around the world need to understand that this is also how Caliphaters plan to defeat the rest of the Western world. And given their astonishing success on Western campuses, they have good reason to believe it will work.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount


Hmm, he didn't mention that the site is in occupied Palestinian territory.

Perhaps that is why he is confused.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount



That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.

Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:

_The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.

...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?

...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement. 

...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.

...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.

The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hmm, he didn't mention that the site is in occupied Palestinian territory.



If you have read the article in its entirety, you would see that you have just made his point for him.  This is not a conflict about metal detectors or reasonable responses to security needs.  Its a battle for absolute dominance and exclusive control over the entire territory.  

_Says the Caliphater: I’m invading; don’t resist. If you resist, I’ll go crazy with violence, so go quietly. Da’wa phase or Jihad phase? Your choice._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,


Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.



Again, completely making the point of the article.  Palestinian rage is a force of nature which is not rational, not to be criticized and not to be confronted.  The right to use violence and to incite violence is just something that the world needs to cope with and appease.  Because if we don't appease it, its going to get more violent.  Its the threat that an abusive person uses against their target when making an irrational request.  "If you don't do what I say -- I'm going to get angry.  And you won't like me when I'm angry."


----------



## Shusha

And the problem with that is that an abusive person will only get more abusive over time, in scope and frequency, when they are appeased.  It legitimizes their irrational behaviour and justifies their use of violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...

You sweepingly miss the point. The Arab-Moslem inability and refusal to concede accommodation regarding the Temple Mount and the refusal to accept the existence of Israel itself is a function of Islamist ideology we see across the Islamist Middle East. Israel's very existence is unthinkable to the devout ummah'ist with regard to the Islamist claim that all of Israel is an Islamic _waqf_ (an entitlement from muhammud (swish)  granted to Muslims in perpetuity).
This sort of unhinged hyperreligious ranting would be absolutely comical, except these idiots are serious. The various islamic terrorist franchises in the disputed territories are the voice of Moslems who feel robbed of the seventh century promise of supremacy over the infidel that was left as a legacy by their religion's inventor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **



Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?
Click to expand...

Good point. I think it is actually 44%.


----------



## Linkiloo

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...

That must be why Berlin, Barcelona and London are facing terror.


----------



## Linkiloo

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sweepingly miss the point. The Arab-Moslem inability and refusal to concede accommodation regarding the Temple Mount and the refusal to accept the existence of Israel itself is a function of Islamist ideology we see across the Islamist Middle East. Israel's very existence is unthinkable to the devout ummah'ist with regard to the Islamist claim that all of Israel is an Islamic _waqf_ (an entitlement from muhammud (swish)  granted to Muslims in perpetuity).
> This sort of unhinged hyperreligious ranting would be absolutely comical, except these idiots are serious. The various islamic terrorist franchises in the disputed territories are the voice of Moslems who feel robbed of the seventh century promise of supremacy over the infidel that was left as a legacy by their religion's inventor.
Click to expand...

To be fair, that thinking goes beyond the middle east with a war being waged against non-believers in Europe today too. That is the main reason why I do not believe the palestinians want peace or ever will.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Linkiloo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That must be why Berlin, Barcelona and London are facing terror.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Different issue.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. I think it is actually 44%.
Click to expand...



Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.


----------



## Shusha

And it hasn't been annexed.  Its a buffer zone.


----------



## Linkiloo

P F Tinmore said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That must be why Berlin, Barcelona and London are facing terror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. Different issue.
Click to expand...

I thought occupation is what causes terror in your view. Now you say "dunno", "different issue" and fail to see that the war against the non-believer is at the root of islamic terror worldwide.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinian Leaders ]

These warm statements by the organizers have clearly failed to impress the Palestinians, who have launched a vicious campaign against the festival and have issued threats against Palestinian participants. The campaign is yet another sign of the Palestinians' growing extremism and rejection of any form of cooperation and coexistence with Israel.

What is particularly disturbing is that the Palestinian Authority (PA), which is backed and funded by the US and EU, is also playing an active role in the campaign against the festival and the Palestinian participants. It would be easier to understand if Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad were opposed to the festival, but the PA's opposition sends the unambiguous message to Palestinians from their leaders in Ramallah: it is that Israel is unacceptable, plain and simple.

(full article online)

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2


----------



## Sixties Fan

In July, the Jerusalem District Court gave an unprecedented ruling stating that the Palestinian Authority (PA) was responsible for the unlawful detention and torture of collaborators with Israel since the 1990's, which cleared the way for victims to file a lawsuit against the PA.

However, the lawyers representing the plaintiffs - all of whom are Arabs - were faced with a problem: Every human rights organization they turned to for assistance in finding a doctor to determine damages refused to help them. "Every NGO we turned to refused to help us. They said they only assist people that sue Israel" attorney Barak Kedem told _NRG.

(full article _online)

Human rights NGOs refuse to help Arab victims of PA torture


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. I think it is actually 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.
Click to expand...

Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Linkiloo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Victory on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That  is a brilliant piece, articulating a concept I have tried to explain many times on this board.
> 
> Here is another quote, concerning the murders on the Temple Mount and the metal detectors which were subsequently installed:
> 
> _The dynamics here are all about honor and shame, and the decision actually threw out any “rational considerations” in an effort to appease the anger of Muslims over a perceived insult to their honor and desecration of the site.
> 
> ...One might have expected outside forces to urge the Palestinians to de-escalate and stop “defending the indefensible”: Arab “moderates” and Western diplomats alike. After all, wouldn’t a reasonable response by Abbas, admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns, have reassured the UN General Assembly?
> 
> ...On the contrary, he and other “moderate” Arab leaders did everything they could to aggravate the tensions (including denying the initial Palestinian attack). They were joined by dhimmi Arab Christians. And the Western leaders, eager to soothe savage breasts and calm troubled waters, counseled appeasement.
> 
> ...The Palestinian side plays a hard zero-sum game, using the threat of violence, inciting to violence, spreading wild rumors (the detectors see through clothing, Israelis will see Muslim women naked) and pseudo-spirituality (Muslim prayer will not ascend to heaven if the faithful pass through the detectors). Like so often when it comes to the Esplanade, they spread wild accusations (projections) of Israel’s plans to take over and drive the Muslim out.
> 
> ...Muslim outrage and violence: a force of nature.
> 
> The result of this humanitarian racism is to treat the results of poisonous and deliberately false Jihadi propaganda that constantly incites violence, as “realities” in the international “security equilibrium.” It doesn’t matter that it’s not true; they believe it. It’s part of reality, and nothing you say will change it._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> admitting the problem and recognizing Israel’s legitimate security concerns,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That must be why Berlin, Barcelona and London are facing terror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. Different issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought occupation is what causes terror in your view. Now you say "dunno", "different issue" and fail to see that the war against the non-believer is at the root of islamic terror worldwide.
Click to expand...

You are confusing terror with resistance to occupation. That is why your gears don't mesh.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. I think it is actually 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.
Click to expand...


Show us, in a map, what your are referring to.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. I think it is actually 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us, in a map, what your are referring to.
Click to expand...

Sure, note that Shajailya was totally destroyed. Whatever excuses Israel gave does not hide the fact that it was inside the planned buffer expansion and had to go.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel has annexed 90% of Gaza and the Palestinians don't have anything left?!  Who writes this BS?
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. I think it is actually 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us, in a map, what your are referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, note that Shajailya was totally destroyed. Whatever excuses Israel gave does not hide the fact that it was inside the planned buffer expansion and had to go.
Click to expand...


This was in 2014.  Lots of families were forced to move.

Egypt Flattens Neighborhoods to Create a Buffer With Gaza

This one is more recent:

Sources in Gaza told Haaretz that the works will force a lot of families out of their homes. Hamas will have to either pay these families compensation or find them alternative housing. The main question that remains to be answered is the effect these works will have on the tunnels under the border, which remain a major artery connecting the coastal enclave to Egypt.
read more: Hamas preparing buffer zone along Gaza-Egypt border

So, in so many words from that map, you are complaining about Israel protecting its population with the buffer zone.  But not Egypt.  

"The barrier has been effective in preventing terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.[10][11]From 1994 until 2004 a suicide bomber originating from within the Gaza Strip successfully carried out an attack in Israel (the March 14, 2004 attack in Ashdod).[12]

Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia

And look at what Abbas has said about the Gaza-Egypt barrier (wikipedia, same page)

*Support for a similar Egypt–Gaza barrier*
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared support for the Egypt–Gaza barrier, adding: "It is the Egyptians’ sovereign right in their own country. Legitimate supplies should be brought through the legal crossings",[20] although he made no such comment towards Israel's sovereign rights. The United States announced its support for the Egypt-Gaza barrier saying it would prevent weapons smuggling.[21] Cairo's main Al-Azhar University officially backed the government's decision for an Egypt-Gaza barrier saying that it was the "state's right to build along its walls facilities and obstacles that will enhance its security."[22]

---------------------------
SEE ????   All in all, barriers around Gaza are a good thing.  Prevent attacks, smuggling and all the other nasty ideas Hamas and other groups there keep getting all the time.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinian's Friends ]

Pro-Palestinian activism. Violent, intolerant, dangerous and racist


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. I think it is actually 44%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us, in a map, what your are referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, note that Shajailya was totally destroyed. Whatever excuses Israel gave does not hide the fact that it was inside the planned buffer expansion and had to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was in 2014.  Lots of families were forced to move.
> 
> Egypt Flattens Neighborhoods to Create a Buffer With Gaza
> 
> This one is more recent:
> 
> Sources in Gaza told Haaretz that the works will force a lot of families out of their homes. Hamas will have to either pay these families compensation or find them alternative housing. The main question that remains to be answered is the effect these works will have on the tunnels under the border, which remain a major artery connecting the coastal enclave to Egypt.
> read more: Hamas preparing buffer zone along Gaza-Egypt border
> 
> So, in so many words from that map, you are complaining about Israel protecting its population with the buffer zone.  But not Egypt.
> 
> "The barrier has been effective in preventing terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.[10][11]From 1994 until 2004 a suicide bomber originating from within the Gaza Strip successfully carried out an attack in Israel (the March 14, 2004 attack in Ashdod).[12]
> 
> Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia
> 
> And look at what Abbas has said about the Gaza-Egypt barrier (wikipedia, same page)
> 
> *Support for a similar Egypt–Gaza barrier*
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared support for the Egypt–Gaza barrier, adding: "It is the Egyptians’ sovereign right in their own country. Legitimate supplies should be brought through the legal crossings",[20] although he made no such comment towards Israel's sovereign rights. The United States announced its support for the Egypt-Gaza barrier saying it would prevent weapons smuggling.[21] Cairo's main Al-Azhar University officially backed the government's decision for an Egypt-Gaza barrier saying that it was the "state's right to build along its walls facilities and obstacles that will enhance its security."[22]
> 
> ---------------------------
> SEE ????   All in all, barriers around Gaza are a good thing.  Prevent attacks, smuggling and all the other nasty ideas Hamas and other groups there keep getting all the time.
Click to expand...

The difference is that Egypt put their buffer on their own side of the border. The freeloaders in Israel put their buffer on the Gaza side.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. More like 4% of total land.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us, in a map, what your are referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, note that Shajailya was totally destroyed. Whatever excuses Israel gave does not hide the fact that it was inside the planned buffer expansion and had to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was in 2014.  Lots of families were forced to move.
> 
> Egypt Flattens Neighborhoods to Create a Buffer With Gaza
> 
> This one is more recent:
> 
> Sources in Gaza told Haaretz that the works will force a lot of families out of their homes. Hamas will have to either pay these families compensation or find them alternative housing. The main question that remains to be answered is the effect these works will have on the tunnels under the border, which remain a major artery connecting the coastal enclave to Egypt.
> read more: Hamas preparing buffer zone along Gaza-Egypt border
> 
> So, in so many words from that map, you are complaining about Israel protecting its population with the buffer zone.  But not Egypt.
> 
> "The barrier has been effective in preventing terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.[10][11]From 1994 until 2004 a suicide bomber originating from within the Gaza Strip successfully carried out an attack in Israel (the March 14, 2004 attack in Ashdod).[12]
> 
> Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia
> 
> And look at what Abbas has said about the Gaza-Egypt barrier (wikipedia, same page)
> 
> *Support for a similar Egypt–Gaza barrier*
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared support for the Egypt–Gaza barrier, adding: "It is the Egyptians’ sovereign right in their own country. Legitimate supplies should be brought through the legal crossings",[20] although he made no such comment towards Israel's sovereign rights. The United States announced its support for the Egypt-Gaza barrier saying it would prevent weapons smuggling.[21] Cairo's main Al-Azhar University officially backed the government's decision for an Egypt-Gaza barrier saying that it was the "state's right to build along its walls facilities and obstacles that will enhance its security."[22]
> 
> ---------------------------
> SEE ????   All in all, barriers around Gaza are a good thing.  Prevent attacks, smuggling and all the other nasty ideas Hamas and other groups there keep getting all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that Egypt put their buffer on their own side of the border. The freeloaders in Israel put their buffer on the Gaza side.
Click to expand...


It is a small price the people of Gaza pay for allowing Hamas to fire 14,000 rockets into Israel.  

It was  a huge price the ancient city of Rafah had to pay, because the terrorists in Gaza wanted to conquer Egypt by attacking it.

And it is the PEOPLE of Gaza who are always losing, and not Hamas and all other terror groups.

They are "resisting" What against Egypt?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Calling all Vampires !!!!
----------------------------------
District Governor of Ramallah Laila Ghannam declared that the Palestinians will stay faithful to the “path” of the “martyrs,” whose blood “perfumes the ground.”

During a visit to the “monument in memory of the martyrs” on the Muslim holiday Eid Al-Adha earlier this month, together with representatives of the Palestinian security forces, Ghannam glorified the so-called Palestinian _Shahids_ (martyrs), the majority of whom are terrorists killed during their attacks against Israelis. Ghannam thanked the eliminated terrorists for “perfuming the ground with the scent of their blood,” which was “spilled for the epic of struggle whose title is Palestine.”

(full article online)

Palestinian Governor: Terrorists ‘Perfume Ground with Scent of Their Blood ‘


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.



You can _believe_ anything you want.  The border between Israel and Gaza is 51km long.  The buffer zone is 300m deep.  The total area of Gaza is 365 square km.  Do the math.  

The video you posted is crap propaganda which uses outright lies to demonize Israel.  This is a discussion board about current politics and a serious conflict.  Do better.


----------



## LaDexter

Who are the Palestinians?

A: the legit owners of the land over there


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has stolen that land for its own exclusive use. And I believe it is about 44%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show us, in a map, what your are referring to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, note that Shajailya was totally destroyed. Whatever excuses Israel gave does not hide the fact that it was inside the planned buffer expansion and had to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was in 2014.  Lots of families were forced to move.
> 
> Egypt Flattens Neighborhoods to Create a Buffer With Gaza
> 
> This one is more recent:
> 
> Sources in Gaza told Haaretz that the works will force a lot of families out of their homes. Hamas will have to either pay these families compensation or find them alternative housing. The main question that remains to be answered is the effect these works will have on the tunnels under the border, which remain a major artery connecting the coastal enclave to Egypt.
> read more: Hamas preparing buffer zone along Gaza-Egypt border
> 
> So, in so many words from that map, you are complaining about Israel protecting its population with the buffer zone.  But not Egypt.
> 
> "The barrier has been effective in preventing terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.[10][11]From 1994 until 2004 a suicide bomber originating from within the Gaza Strip successfully carried out an attack in Israel (the March 14, 2004 attack in Ashdod).[12]
> 
> Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia
> 
> And look at what Abbas has said about the Gaza-Egypt barrier (wikipedia, same page)
> 
> *Support for a similar Egypt–Gaza barrier*
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared support for the Egypt–Gaza barrier, adding: "It is the Egyptians’ sovereign right in their own country. Legitimate supplies should be brought through the legal crossings",[20] although he made no such comment towards Israel's sovereign rights. The United States announced its support for the Egypt-Gaza barrier saying it would prevent weapons smuggling.[21] Cairo's main Al-Azhar University officially backed the government's decision for an Egypt-Gaza barrier saying that it was the "state's right to build along its walls facilities and obstacles that will enhance its security."[22]
> 
> ---------------------------
> SEE ????   All in all, barriers around Gaza are a good thing.  Prevent attacks, smuggling and all the other nasty ideas Hamas and other groups there keep getting all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that Egypt put their buffer on their own side of the border. The freeloaders in Israel put their buffer on the Gaza side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a small price the people of Gaza pay for allowing Hamas to fire 14,000 rockets into Israel.
> 
> It was  a huge price the ancient city of Rafah had to pay, because the terrorists in Gaza wanted to conquer Egypt by attacking it.
> 
> And it is the PEOPLE of Gaza who are always losing, and not Hamas and all other terror groups.
> 
> They are "resisting" What against Egypt?
Click to expand...

What a pantload.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Sansour*


----------



## Hollie

The results of a Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The results of a Death Cult


Chickenfeed.

Children killed.
TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 131
TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
 Palestinians: 1656

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The results of a Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> Children killed.
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
Click to expand...


How lucky for you. Lots of dead Islamics to parade around.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The results of a Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> Children killed.
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
Click to expand...


Israelis do not kill children, or even civilian adults on purpose.  Especially when it happens during a war where their leaders encourage those adults and children to stay in harms way for the sake of martyrdom.

There has not been ONE instance of Israeli IDF, or police, guards, etc who killed Palestinian children on purpose.

If there is, you show it to us.

On Purpose!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The results of a Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> Children killed.
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis do not kill children, or even civilian adults on purpose.  Especially when it happens during a war where their leaders encourage those adults and children to stay in harms way for the sake of martyrdom.
> 
> There has not been ONE instance of Israeli IDF, or police, guards, etc who killed Palestinian children on purpose.
> 
> If there is, you show it to us.
> 
> On Purpose!!!!
Click to expand...

OF course they don't. They are just so stupid that they kill by the thousands by accident.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The results of a Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> Children killed.
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis do not kill children, or even civilian adults on purpose.  Especially when it happens during a war where their leaders encourage those adults and children to stay in harms way for the sake of martyrdom.
> 
> There has not been ONE instance of Israeli IDF, or police, guards, etc who killed Palestinian children on purpose.
> 
> If there is, you show it to us
> 
> On Purpose!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OF course they don't. They are just so stupid that they kill by the thousands by accident.
Click to expand...



Tin man, the expert in Gaza and warfare and Israeli Military "Intelligence".   Witness to all things which happen in Gaza 

Dempsey: Israel went to 'extraordinary length' to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The results of a Death Cult
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> Children killed.
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis do not kill children, or even civilian adults on purpose.  Especially when it happens during a war where their leaders encourage those adults and children to stay in harms way for the sake of martyrdom.
> 
> There has not been ONE instance of Israeli IDF, or police, guards, etc who killed Palestinian children on purpose.
> 
> If there is, you show it to us
> 
> On Purpose!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OF course they don't. They are just so stupid that they kill by the thousands by accident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tin man, the expert in Gaza and warfare and Israeli Military "Intelligence".   Witness to all things which happen in Gaza
> 
> Dempsey: Israel went to 'extraordinary length' to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza
Click to expand...

How did a dumbfuck get to be a general?


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## P F Tinmore




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## jamesduncan

*12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes*

*Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000*
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/sniper.html

*The sad story of the never ending killing of Palestinian children by the Israeli Defense Force all in the name of self-defense.*
Murdering little girls is an Israeli sport it seems
*Gaza girl said killed*
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
Thu., October 28, 2004
*IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp *
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

*UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
 An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire *IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit  *a fifth-grade student at the school. *Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at  the same school.*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

*United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004* At 07:45 *10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head* by Israeli  fire while sitting  at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary

Girl's School On June 1 this year *two ten-year old children* in UNRWA's
Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School  in Rafah *were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank*
In March 2003
*12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet* fired *Two 10 year-old schoolchildren were shot* in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, *when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*

*Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window*, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html


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## jamesduncan

*Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot* by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

*Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and ead while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004*
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2785.shtml

*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk

*Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
September 8, 2003
*The bullet ridden corpse* of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm

*Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
 28 July 2003
*She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying*,
'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head*, one straight after the other.
She was still in my arms and she died."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1007051,00.html

*This boy was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy  fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.*
Tuesday December 23, 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1112055,00.html

*Israel Baby is born then dies*
September 11, 2003
*Birth and death at the checkpoint*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html

*Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers*, one a 15-year-old boy
*Siege off Nablus
January, 2004*

*15 year old boy* who was *shot* while standing in front of his house. The sniper bulet hit Amjad *in the back. * He died on his way to the hospital. The second is  *Amer Kathym Arafat* who was also *shot in the back* by a sniper bullet. The third is *Rouhi Hazem Shouman, 25*, who was also *shot in the back by a sniper.*

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

*Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends. *
*5 June 2004*
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2785.shtml

*15 year old boy* &  Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all *shot in the back* by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk

*IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets * and then the *IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again* to make sure she was dead
 Tue., October 05, 2004
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

*“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." *
http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/children.html

http://tinyurl.com/8rmn2g3


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## P F Tinmore




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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Arrests Peace Activist For Hosting Israeli MK


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## P F Tinmore

*Lina Sleibi*

**


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## P F Tinmore




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## Sixties Fan

Watch: WCJ uncovers 'lethal reporting' in Arab-Israeli conflict


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## GHook93

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


Lol you are delusional. Israel shows amazing restraint against her enemies. They don't desire world domination like Islam does. They desire ownership over their homeland, which is one of the smallest countries in the world.

It is Islam that is the threat to the world. They seek world domination, similar to the NAZIs. They believe all non-Muslims are inferior and worthy of death (similar to how the NAZIs viewed non-Aryans). They have no problem will killing innocent people, including fellow Muslims. They desire nuclear arms to accomplish this goal. 

So take your delusional antisemitism and shove it up your ass


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Naturally, being in the all-propaganda-all-the-time business, the Ma'an people fail to mention the open incitement to stabbings that have become a prominent feature of the Palestinian Arab establishment's messaging to its public throughout the past two years.

Widely circulated posters like these, putting stabbers on a pedestal and encouraging lethal knifings of ordinary Israelis, set the tone that enables the ongoing weaponization of their badly educated, intensively indoctrinated children:

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 12-Sep-17: Knives and boys


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Watch: WCJ uncovers 'lethal reporting' in Arab-Israeli conflict


WOW, this guy has a terminal case of sour grapes.


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## Sixties Fan

A new report from the UN calls sex with girls under the age of 15 - "marriage" - at least if you are a Palestinian. In the rest of the world, the phenomenon would be called rape or sexual slavery. Though hidden in UN jargon, the report from the UN's children's agency, UNICEF, shockingly reveals: "2% of all Palestinian women aged 15 to 49 years married before the age of 15." One-quarter of Palestinian girls "marry" before 18.

The UNICEF report on "Palestinian children and women in Jordan, Lebanon, the Syrian Arab Republic and the State of Palestine," was produced to justify how the agency plans to spend 80 million dollars on Palestinians over the next three years. The driving premise of their planning is that "occupation" is the root cause of the problems of Palestinian children and women. In UNICEF's alternative universe, successive attempts by Arabs to eradicate a Jewish state over seven decades are morally neutral "conflict cycles."

UNICEF's effort to place the blame for Palestinian behavior on everyone but Palestinians, results in other shocking conclusions. According to the report, having sex with children is some kind of understandable "coping" mechanism. In UNICEF's words: "Child labour and child marriage are increasingly used as coping mechanisms, especially in countries affected by the Syrian conflict."

The UNICEF report also reveals that Palestinians routinely beat their children. It says: "In the community, schools and households, violent disciplinary practices prevail. In the State of Palestine, 70 per cent of students are exposed to violence at school. A staggering 92 per cent of children aged 1 to 14 years experienced violent disciplining at home in the month prior to a 2014 survey and 27.4 per cent of males were exposed to severe physical punishment, compared with 18.9 per cent of females."

(full article online)

Developments - Area programme document: Palestinian children and women in Jordan, Lebanon, the Syrian Arab Republic and the State of Palestine, E/ICEF/2017/P/L.20


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## jamesduncan

GHook93 said:


> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome.



You know that just isn't true.



GHook93 said:


> Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third..



You know that just isn't true.



GHook93 said:


> They desire ownership over their homeland, which is one of the smallest countries in the world...



Israel was never their homeland.

(Gen 41:44 KJV)  And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

(Gen 41:46 KJV)  And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.

(Gen 47:3 KJV)  And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV)  They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV)  And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [*ISRAEL*] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV)  The land of Egypt is before thee; _in the best of the land_ make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

The only homeland the Israelites ever knew was Egypt but even Egypt was not considered their homeland.

Further proof~~None of the great leaders were buried in "Egypt" which is further proof that a place called "Israel" never existed. They would still be in Egypt today if Moses hadn't murdered a man in cold blood in a public place for all to see.

such is life


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## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: WCJ uncovers 'lethal reporting' in Arab-Israeli conflict
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, this guy has a terminal case of sour grapes.
Click to expand...

described yourself to the T with that one.


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## Sixties Fan

The already disgusting Holocaust inversion done routinely by Palestinian Arabs and their antisemitic defenders (where Jews are accused of being just as bad as Nazis) becomes even more grotesque here, as these images are meant to erase the Holocaust altogether and replace it with Palestinians as the victims.

(full article and photos online)

Palestinians show Holocaust-era images as photos of "Israeli massacres" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## P F Tinmore

*Noel Kharman*

**


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## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noel Kharman*
> 
> **


Tinhead try to be relevant.  What does this stupid video of an Arab woman singing Adele's "hello" have to do with anything.  Are you trying to say that nobody else has ever tried copying that song?


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



More welfare money for the islamic terrorist franchises.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.

Let there be peace already !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.
> 
> Let there be peace already !
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.


*Stupid post of the day.*


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.
> 
> Let there be peace already !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Stupid post of the day.*
Click to expand...


Stupid only to those who know nothing about life in Gaza and what Hamas is, and what Hamas does, like you.


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.
> 
> Let there be peace already !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Stupid post of the day.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stupid only to those who know nothing about life in Gaza and what Hamas is, and what Hamas does, like you.
Click to expand...

Your life does not extend beyond Israel's bullshit talking points.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.
> 
> Let there be peace already !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Stupid post of the day.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stupid only to those who know nothing about life in Gaza and what Hamas is, and what Hamas does, like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your life does not extend beyond Israel's bullshit talking points.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your second stupid quote of the day


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hamas better get there shit together, then, huh?


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.
> 
> Let there be peace already !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Stupid post of the day.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stupid only to those who know nothing about life in Gaza and what Hamas is, and what Hamas does, like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your life does not extend beyond Israel's bullshit talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for your second stupid quote of the day
Click to expand...

When was the last time you posted something that was not an Israeli talking point?

Link?


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## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas better get there shit together, then, huh?
Click to expand...

What would you suggest?


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> If it becomes unlivable, and apparently only to the poor people not connected to government, then Hamas is the one and only one responsible for the selfish decisions it has been making since 2007.
> 
> Let there be peace already !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas keeps choosing war on Israel rather than building a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Stupid post of the day.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stupid only to those who know nothing about life in Gaza and what Hamas is, and what Hamas does, like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your life does not extend beyond Israel's bullshit talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for your second stupid quote of the day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time you posted something that was not an Israeli talking point?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Fascinating how, when you cannot respond with something you can actually prove what you are talking about you resort to "talking points"  

Your ignorance about Hamas and Fatah, and where Billions of dollars have gone is showing


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What would you suggest?



1.  A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
2.  An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
3.  Ensure NO resources are funneled to any sort of hostilities toward Israel or Egypt.
4.  International funding and supervision of a water treatment plant and repair of water infrastructure.
5.  International funding and supervision of production of electricity.
6.  Trade and export agreements with Israel and Egypt.
7.  Expansion of tourist trade, in particular welcoming Israel and Egyptians.


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## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.


Already been offered by Hamas.

I agree. Both sides should disarm.


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
Click to expand...



I said nothing about disarming.  

And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
Click to expand...

OK, but the violence needs to stop on both sides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
Click to expand...

Israel rejected the Hamas offer.


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but the violence needs to stop on both sides.



Belligerence needs to stop by the Party doing the provoking.  The other side will take care of itself when the first Party stops the belligerence.

In other words, sure, "both" sides need to stop attacking the other, but since really there is only one side which is attacking and the other defending, its only one side which needs to stop.  The other can self-manage.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
Click to expand...


Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
Click to expand...

Opinion | Pause for Peace


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
Click to expand...


That article is from 2006. AFTER Israel UNOCCUPIED  the part of Gaza where the Jews lived.

BEFORE the civil war between Hamas and Fatah.
BEFORE Abbas was made to run to Ramallah.

Now, do you know the meaning of the word Hudna?
Why was Hamas still using the word "occupation"?
Was it using it towards Gaza, still?

Or was it using towards the State of Israel, as in the State of Israel is occupying land which does not belong to her?

-------
We Palestinians are prepared to enter into a hudna to bring about an immediate end to the occupation and to initiate a period of peaceful coexistence during which both sides would refrain from any form of military aggression or provocation.

Opinion | Pause for Peace
--------------
Tactical Hudna and Islamist Intolerance
-----------
Do you remember when Mohammad offered a hudna to the Jewish tribe of Medina?

What happened then?

That is exactly what the Muslims/Arabs are continuing to expect to happen with Israel in time.

Get your act together.

Where is the thinking of Hamas and the PA today?
What are they doing?  What do they teach?
What are they preparing for?


Get a brain !!!!!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
Click to expand...


Nice opinion piece. 

It does not, in fact, fulfill the requirements I laid out in my post.  

Also, Hamas has repeatedly stated that they have not and will not give up the goal of asserting Arab Muslim control over the entire territory.  They have NEVER renounced that idea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That article is from 2006. AFTER Israel UNOCCUPIED  the part of Gaza where the Jews lived.
> 
> BEFORE the civil war between Hamas and Fatah.
> BEFORE Abbas was made to run to Ramallah.
> 
> Now, do you know the meaning of the word Hudna?
> Why was Hamas still using the word "occupation"?
> Was it using it towards Gaza, still?
> 
> Or was it using towards the State of Israel, as in the State of Israel is occupying land which does not belong to her?
> 
> -------
> We Palestinians are prepared to enter into a hudna to bring about an immediate end to the occupation and to initiate a period of peaceful coexistence during which both sides would refrain from any form of military aggression or provocation.
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
> --------------
> Tactical Hudna and Islamist Intolerance
> -----------
> Do you remember when Mohammad offered a hudna to the Jewish tribe of Medina?
> 
> What happened then?
> 
> That is exactly what the Muslims/Arabs are continuing to expect to happen with Israel in time.
> 
> Get your act together.
> 
> Where is the thinking of Hamas and the PA today?
> What are they doing?  What do they teach?
> What are they preparing for?
> 
> 
> Get a brain !!!!!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Already been offered by Hamas.
> 
> I agree. Both sides should disarm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice opinion piece.
> 
> It does not, in fact, fulfill the requirements I laid out in my post.
> 
> Also, Hamas has repeatedly stated that they have not and will not give up the goal of asserting Arab Muslim control over the entire territory.  They have NEVER renounced that idea.
Click to expand...

You claimed that Hamas never made that offer. That was not true. Now you are trying to blow it off.

You people are impossible. When proven wrong you continue to blabber on.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about disarming.
> 
> And Hamas has most definitively NOT offered that nor achieved that.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice opinion piece.
> 
> It does not, in fact, fulfill the requirements I laid out in my post.
> 
> Also, Hamas has repeatedly stated that they have not and will not give up the goal of asserting Arab Muslim control over the entire territory.  They have NEVER renounced that idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claimed that Hamas never made that offer. That was not true. Now you are trying to blow it off.
> 
> You people are impossible. When proven wrong you continue to blabber on.
Click to expand...


Hamas offered a Hudna and not what Shusha suggested.
--------------

"1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel."
-------
"Already been offered by Hamas." you said.
---------------

You do not know or understand what a Hudna is, and do not seem to care what it is or what it means.

In other words, we have not been proven wrong by you.
You have not proven that Hamas offered the suggestions Susha was speaking of.
---------------
When a “Cease-Fire” is Not a Cease-Fire

From November 26, 2006, until May 15, 2007, a Hudna between Hamas and Israel went on for almost six months. One cannot ignore the statement made by Hamas five days before the hudna went into effect: "Hamas's military wing will stop the rocket fire when residents evacuate the city of Sderot." (from November 21, 2006)

During that hudna, Gazans launched 315 missiles targeted at Sderot and the western Negev, according to an IDF spokesman.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Is the purpose of aid to help people become self-sufficient, or to ensure that they ossify and become more and more dependent?

The answer should be clear, but for UNRWA, it is the latter.

UNRWA's original intentions were noble - it was meant to be temporary until the Arabs displaced in 1948 could find homes and citizenship - but within only a few years it morphed into a welfare institution and no longer encouraged people to take responsibility for their lives.

The Arab recipients of UNRWA aid, for their part, thought of these extensive benefits - free medical services, free housing, free schooling that in many ways is better than that of surrounding Arab states - were their right. And over time, as UNRWA grew, they felt that employment was an additional right as well. Nearly all UNRWA employees are Palestinian Arab.

There was a protest in Gaza last week against UNRWA - because the fake refugees demand not that their own Hamas _de facto_ government takes care of them, and not that the PA takes care of all their needs, but that the world should continue to bankroll everything they demand. For free.
---------

Free electricity! A new demand for the world to pay for.
--------------

(full article online)

UNRWA gives out free education, housing, medical - but Palestinians want far more ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Arab terrorist enterprise occasionally drops its guard and allows some of its semi-concealed lethal malevolence to be exposed to the light of day.

Here's an extract from a media report of a heavily-promoted publicity release issued yesterday (Thursday) by several NGOs that agitate for the rights of Palestinian Arab prisoners:
-----
(*Wikipedia *says Daily Sabah - the word means _morning_ - is regarded as a propaganda outlet for Turkey's media-tough government and Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP). In March 2017, after investigating complaints that the paper had an editorial agenda of "spreading hate", the president of the European Parliament banned its distribution there.)




Video grab from a Pal Arab source

The focus of the report and the message of its promoters in obviously concerned with arousing outrage at the notion that barbaric Israelis would consider imprisoning children, women and (gasp) members of parliament.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 15-Sep-17: Women, children, parliamentarians, editors and terror


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rejected the Hamas offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas NEVER made such an offer.  NEVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Opinion | Pause for Peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice opinion piece.
> 
> It does not, in fact, fulfill the requirements I laid out in my post.
> 
> Also, Hamas has repeatedly stated that they have not and will not give up the goal of asserting Arab Muslim control over the entire territory.  They have NEVER renounced that idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claimed that Hamas never made that offer. That was not true. Now you are trying to blow it off.
> 
> You people are impossible. When proven wrong you continue to blabber on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas offered a Hudna and not what Shusha suggested.
> --------------
> 
> "1. A renunciation of all hostilities toward Israel (preferrably in conjunction with a recognition of Israel as a Jewish State)
> 2. An actual cessation of all hostilities toward Israel."
> -------
> "Already been offered by Hamas." you said.
> ---------------
> 
> You do not know or understand what a Hudna is, and do not seem to care what it is or what it means.
> 
> In other words, we have not been proven wrong by you.
> You have not proven that Hamas offered the suggestions Shusha was speaking of.
> ---------------
> When a “Cease-Fire” is Not a Cease-Fire
> 
> From November 26, 2006, until May 15, 2007, a Hudna between Hamas and Israel went on for almost six months. One cannot ignore the statement made by Hamas five days before the hudna went into effect: "Hamas's military wing will stop the rocket fire when residents evacuate the city of Sderot." (from November 21, 2006)
> 
> During that hudna, Gazans launched 315 missiles targeted at Sderot and the western Negev, according to an IDF spokesman.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  Hamas has also publicly confirmed just this year:

“The movement does not concede any part of occupied Palestine, and does not concede the right of return of Palestinian refugees. This cannot be changed by any authority — Palestinian or international,”

...asserts that resistance for the liberation of Palestine will remain “a legitimate right, a duty and an honour”, 

...“armed resistance is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and rights of the Palesinian people”.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Consider: For almost two decades, Israelis have been told that Mahmoud Abbas was the most reasonable Palestinian leader they could hope for; that he was Israel’s best partner for peace; that he was the moderate with whom a grand compromise deal could be reached. Israelis wanted to believe this so very much.

But then came the Abbas who walked away from prime minister Ehud Olmert’s outrageously generous territorial offer in 2008; and the Abbas who refused peace talks with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu even after Netanyahu froze settlement construction; and the Abbas who left US secretary of state John Kerry out in the cold in 2014.

Then there was the “PaliLeaks” opportunity to ready the Palestinian public for compromise with Israel. But Abbas ran away from that gateway, too, vigorously denying the hints of compromise with Israel (about refugees, Jerusalem, and borders) that were in the leaked documents.

Ever since then, Abbas has used every international forum to spew forth extremist vitriol against Israel and seek the criminalization of Israel. His record of speech-making at the UN General Assembly is particularly appalling.

(full article online)

Know comment: Abbas's appalling record


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian Arab terrorist enterprise occasionally drops its guard and allows some of its semi-concealed lethal malevolence to be exposed to the light of day.
> 
> Here's an extract from a media report of a heavily-promoted publicity release issued yesterday (Thursday) by several NGOs that agitate for the rights of Palestinian Arab prisoners:
> -----
> (*Wikipedia *says Daily Sabah - the word means _morning_ - is regarded as a propaganda outlet for Turkey's media-tough government and Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP). In March 2017, after investigating complaints that the paper had an editorial agenda of "spreading hate", the president of the European Parliament banned its distribution there.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video grab from a Pal Arab source
> 
> The focus of the report and the message of its promoters in obviously concerned with arousing outrage at the notion that barbaric Israelis would consider imprisoning children, women and (gasp) members of parliament.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 15-Sep-17: Women, children, parliamentarians, editors and terror





Sixties Fan said:


> The focus of the report and the message of its promoters in obviously concerned with arousing outrage at the notion that barbaric Israelis would consider imprisoning children, women and (gasp) members of parliament.


All true. What's the bitch?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Arab terrorist enterprise occasionally drops its guard and allows some of its semi-concealed lethal malevolence to be exposed to the light of day.
> 
> Here's an extract from a media report of a heavily-promoted publicity release issued yesterday (Thursday) by several NGOs that agitate for the rights of Palestinian Arab prisoners:
> -----
> (*Wikipedia *says Daily Sabah - the word means _morning_ - is regarded as a propaganda outlet for Turkey's media-tough government and Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP). In March 2017, after investigating complaints that the paper had an editorial agenda of "spreading hate", the president of the European Parliament banned its distribution there.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video grab from a Pal Arab source
> 
> The focus of the report and the message of its promoters in obviously concerned with arousing outrage at the notion that barbaric Israelis would consider imprisoning children, women and (gasp) members of parliament.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 15-Sep-17: Women, children, parliamentarians, editors and terror
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the report and the message of its promoters in obviously concerned with arousing outrage at the notion that barbaric Israelis would consider imprisoning children, women and (gasp) members of parliament.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All true. What's the bitch?
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Women Rise Up In Silicon Wadi*

East Jerusalem entrepreneur Abeer al-Natsheh, founder of  My Pink Electronics, speaks with a quick smile and thick Arabic accent whether her words come out in English, Hebrew, or international high-tech jargon.

*




*

“I don’t want to be a foreigner in my own country,” al-Natsheh told International Business Times. “I felt like I was being pushed away from their [Israeli] industry.” High-tech and tech-savvy startups are now a key part of local job markets from  Nazareth in the north to the Palestinian city of  Ramallah. The region’s flourishing tech industry is often called “Silicon Wadi,” with the latter word meaning “valley” in Arabic. However, Arabic is otherwise noticeably absent from the industry’s ecosystem. Al-Natsheh is part of a new generation of Palestinian women rising up in the industry despite unique challenges. 

*Palestinian Women Rise Up In Silicon Wadi*


----------



## Sixties Fan

JUNE 11, 2017

Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.

For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.

“I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.

Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.

“It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”

Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator

====
Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> JUNE 11, 2017
> 
> Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.
> 
> For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.
> 
> “I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.
> 
> Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.
> 
> “It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”
> 
> Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator
> 
> ====
> Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
> Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.


Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> JUNE 11, 2017
> 
> Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.
> 
> For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.
> 
> “I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.
> 
> Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.
> 
> “It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”
> 
> Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator
> 
> ====
> Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
> Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.
Click to expand...


The racist government allows Arabs to become successful?
The racist government stops them from studying, getting jobs, being successful?

What an absolutely racist thing for you to say, along with all the other racists things you have said so far.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> JUNE 11, 2017
> 
> Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.
> 
> For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.
> 
> “I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.
> 
> Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.
> 
> “It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”
> 
> Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator
> 
> ====
> Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
> Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The racist government allows Arabs to become successful?
> The racist government stops them from studying, getting jobs, being successful?
> 
> What an absolutely racist thing for you to say, along with all the other racists things you have said so far.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, another stupid post.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> JUNE 11, 2017
> 
> Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.
> 
> For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.
> 
> “I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.
> 
> Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.
> 
> “It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”
> 
> Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator
> 
> ====
> Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
> Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The racist government allows Arabs to become successful?
> The racist government stops them from studying, getting jobs, being successful?
> 
> What an absolutely racist thing for you to say, along with all the other racists things you have said so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, another stupid post.
Click to expand...


Pffft, another brilliant post you cannot counter, so all you can say about it is "stupid".

What a stupid brain you have.
Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.
Want to compare to Sandi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Lybia, etc 

Where are the Jews in the Parliaments there?
Where are the Jews in the good jobs?
Where are the Jews, period in most of those countries?

Go ahead, have another fart in your brain, and distort how good a life Arabs have in Israel, that they prefer to live there rather than any future "Palestine State" which is never going to materialize.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> JUNE 11, 2017
> 
> Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.
> 
> For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.
> 
> “I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.
> 
> Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.
> 
> “It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”
> 
> Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator
> 
> ====
> Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
> Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The racist government allows Arabs to become successful?
> The racist government stops them from studying, getting jobs, being successful?
> 
> What an absolutely racist thing for you to say, along with all the other racists things you have said so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, another stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pffft, another brilliant post you cannot counter, so all you can say about it is "stupid".
> 
> What a stupid brain you have.
> Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.
> Want to compare to Sandi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Lybia, etc
> 
> Where are the Jews in the Parliaments there?
> Where are the Jews in the good jobs?
> Where are the Jews, period in most of those countries?
> 
> Go ahead, have another fart in your brain, and distort how good a life Arabs have in Israel, that they prefer to live there rather than any future "Palestine State" which is never going to materialize.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.


How many laws proposed by the Arabs were voted into law?

How many times has an Arab party been a part of a coalition government?

Your answer will reveal the quality of your post.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> JUNE 11, 2017
> 
> Abeer al-Natsheh, the founder and managing director of My Pink Electronics, said that she first found about OGS through the OneVoice Movement, a global initiative supporting Israeli and Palestinian grassroots activists, where she has been volunteering for the past decade.
> 
> For Natsheh, OGS offered an attractive “new idea of not only talking to your community, but talking to the Israeli community, too – knowing them on the basis of economics, doing projects with them.” Prior to participating in the program last summer, she said she knew very little about the Israeli community, despite living in such close proximity to Israelis in east Jerusalem.
> 
> “I was aiming to get to know people more than anything else, have a chance to live with a community,” she told the Post.
> 
> Her time at Brandeis helped open her eyes not only to the Israeli community, but also to the Palestinian community in Gaza and the obstacles the population there faces, Natsheh explained. As the program brings more and more people together each year, a growing team of OGS alumni can remain in touch with one and other and continue to speak freely, she added.
> 
> “It brings people together on a different level – an economic level,” Natsheh said. “We’ll have leaders with financial ability that can create a change.”
> 
> Israelis, Palestinians build start-ups together at Brandeis incubator
> 
> ====
> Jews and Arabs working together in Israel.  That is the way of the future.  For the same rights Israel gives to all living there, citizens or residents,  who look to live in peace and build a better country.
> Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduins, Bahai, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The racist government allows Arabs to become successful?
> The racist government stops them from studying, getting jobs, being successful?
> 
> What an absolutely racist thing for you to say, along with all the other racists things you have said so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, another stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pffft, another brilliant post you cannot counter, so all you can say about it is "stupid".
> 
> What a stupid brain you have.
> Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.
> Want to compare to Sandi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Lybia, etc
> 
> Where are the Jews in the Parliaments there?
> Where are the Jews in the good jobs?
> Where are the Jews, period in most of those countries?
> 
> Go ahead, have another fart in your brain, and distort how good a life Arabs have in Israel, that they prefer to live there rather than any future "Palestine State" which is never going to materialize.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laws proposed by the Arabs were voted into law?
> 
> How many times has an Arab party been a part of a coalition government?
> 
> Your answer will reveal the quality of your post.
Click to expand...


The quality of my post is wonderful.

You do not know how Israeli Knesset works.

If there are laws proposed by the Arabs in the Knesset which help instead of hindering all the Arabs in Israel's ability to grow, let me know.  
I can think of many laws the Arabs in the Knesset tried to pass which were meant to harm Israel, only.

The Arab party does not work for making Arab lives better.  Or maybe you thought they did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, only if they could get rid of that racist government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The racist government allows Arabs to become successful?
> The racist government stops them from studying, getting jobs, being successful?
> 
> What an absolutely racist thing for you to say, along with all the other racists things you have said so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, another stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pffft, another brilliant post you cannot counter, so all you can say about it is "stupid".
> 
> What a stupid brain you have.
> Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.
> Want to compare to Sandi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Lybia, etc
> 
> Where are the Jews in the Parliaments there?
> Where are the Jews in the good jobs?
> Where are the Jews, period in most of those countries?
> 
> Go ahead, have another fart in your brain, and distort how good a life Arabs have in Israel, that they prefer to live there rather than any future "Palestine State" which is never going to materialize.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs, Druze, etc, vote, are members of the Knesset, etc in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laws proposed by the Arabs were voted into law?
> 
> How many times has an Arab party been a part of a coalition government?
> 
> Your answer will reveal the quality of your post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The quality of my post is wonderful.
> 
> You do not know how Israeli Knesset works.
> 
> If there are laws proposed by the Arabs in the Knesset which help instead of hindering all the Arabs in Israel's ability to grow, let me know.
> I can think of many laws the Arabs in the Knesset tried to pass which were meant to harm Israel, only.
> 
> The Arab party does not work for making Arab lives better.  Or maybe you thought they did.
Click to expand...

So, what was your score?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists from Islamic terrorism'istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Government conferring 'permission to hate' Muslims: Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Government conferring 'permission to hate' Muslims: Randa Abdel-Fattah*
> 
> **




She says:  States confer permission to hate and the way they do that is that when they encounter a certain population, a certain community as the enemy ... they give a moral permission to encounter that community as an enemy and its almost as though they embolden (them).  Its the language of division, its the language of exclusion.


Yep.  Agree with her 100%.  But you have to apply that to BOTH sides and not to just one.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Government conferring 'permission to hate' Muslims: Randa Abdel-Fattah*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says:  States confer permission to hate and the way they do that is that when they encounter a certain population, a certain community as the enemy ... they give a moral permission to encounter that community as an enemy and its almost as though they embolden (them).  Its the language of division, its the language of exclusion.
> 
> 
> Yep.  Agree with her 100%.  But you have to apply that to BOTH sides and not to just one.
Click to expand...


The video is about Muslims in Australia.
I must ask what States she is talking about.
For the past 10 or so years, Australia has been going through a lot of changes with the Muslim immigration into.
These are not Palestinians, maybe some are, but look at the other videos on youtube about the subject just below this video.
Look at the titles:
Sharia law in Australia.
Islam's flag will fly over Australia
Muslims want their own State in Australis.  No Go zones are not enough.

Sounds familiar?

Be it Europe, Americas, Australia, what has been happening with the Muslim population, not all of them, in each and every country? 

Why is the message the same one?

Is this not what keeps coming out of Mosques and Imams?  And ISIS, and all other groups?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas at the UN again: Who cares? «  David M. Weinberg


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


The Palestinians have the right to fight the occupation.

End the occupation.

Problem solved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to fight the occupation.
> 
> End the occupation.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...


The Israelis have the tight to self determination.

End Islamic terrorism.

Problem solved.


----------



## Hollie

The muhammedan problem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to fight the occupation.
> 
> End the occupation.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis have the tight to self determination.
> 
> End Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Terrorism.

Israel's stupid excuse to steal land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to fight the occupation.
> 
> End the occupation.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis have the tight to self determination.
> 
> End Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorism.
> 
> Israel's stupid excuse to steal land.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorism. How dare anyone interrupt the Islamist colonial project.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ikhras documents how Sarsour is a fake:

 Former friends of Sarsour tell us ....She has also cultivated a public persona that those who knew her tell us is dramatically unlike the Sarsour they had encountered and previously worked with. Even Palestinian-Americans who do not know Sarsour personally recognize a caricature type quality to her public behavior. In what is apparently an attempt to adhere to some stereotypical Brooklynite image, complete with an exaggerated and pretentious accent, she now comes across as an Arab parody of Rosie Perez. 

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour is derided as a fake by Arab-Americans too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



LOL, truly LOL and how disgusting.

Real News, indeed.  

BDS waste of time, endless waste of all of those people's time, because they do not know any better, and there  isn't one of them with a mind clear enough to want to know.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*100Ways For Peace From Palestine-samih abu zakieh*

**


----------



## Hollie

Peace from Arab-Moslem terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult


----------



## Sixties Fan

[So much for any future peace between Israelis and Palestinians]

Fatah Spokesman: Fatah will never recognize Israel - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [So much for any future peace between Israelis and Palestinians]
> 
> Fatah Spokesman: Fatah will never recognize Israel - PMW Bulletins


Where does it say that they have to?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[This is basically what a UDNA is in Islam.  Words are cheap, actions speak volumes, and it is all a waiting game, waiting for the enemy to give in and give up .  In other words, the Oslo Accords never was, and it it ever was, it has been dead for a long time.  Which means what for Israel?  ]
[PLO, Fatah, Hamas.  Who speaks for the poor Arabs stuck in Gaza and Areas A and B because their leaders insist in destroying Israel no matter what? Who speaks for all of those stuck in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan because their leaders demand the destruction of Israel before they can allow these people to have any form of descent life, if they ever meant to give them any? ]
------------

*Fatah Spokesman Osama Al-Qawasmi*: “Certainly not. This is not required, and we will not recognize Israel… I declare this clearly and in a satellite channel broadcast: ‘My friends, Hamas, you should not recognize Israel, you are not required to. 

“The PLO, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, sent a letter of mutual recognition of the State of Israel, on Sept. 12, 1993. You are not required to.’
_

Text of Letter to Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin from PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat_

September 9, 1993
Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East.

In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security. The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations. 

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators. 

In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel’s right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

Sincerely,
Yasser Arafat Chairman
The Palestine Liberation Organization

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...cords-will-never-recognize-israel/2017/09/18/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability.


He was duped big rime.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability.
> 
> 
> 
> He was duped big rime.
Click to expand...


He duped Israel big time.  Did not go through with one of the requirements set in the Accord so that a Peace treaty would eventually happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.

He did a Hudna.  
Hudna = fooling the enemy into thinking that you actually want peace, when in reality you are just giving them time for the Muslims to come and destroy them.  

Hudna, since the 7th century CE, started by Mohammad against his "enemies".  

Hudna, because Muslims HATE to lose.
Hudna, because losing face is a dishonor in Islam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa*


----------



## Hollie

Another Death Cultist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Akram*

**


----------



## Hollie

Just another Death Cultist


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

The number of tunnel deaths has definitely been going up, which indicates that Hamas is really working hard to get as many tunnels as possible finished before Israel finishes its underground barrier meant to stop them, a project that is two years from completion.

Which means either Hamas thinks that their tunnels will manage to remain undetected by the barrier - or they are planning a major terror attack in Israel, complete with kidnapping civilians or soldiers, within a year or two.

(full article online)

Another Hamas terrorist goes from a tunnel to his 70 virgins ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

On November 13th, 1974, arch terrorist Yasser Arafat was granted the honor to address the UNGA. He did so while wearing a gun holster. And although some, like the BBC, like to describe his speech as “advocating peace”, he was really threatening more violence if the establishment of a palestinian state would not take place.

Almost exactly a year later, on November 10th, 1975, the UNGA adopted the infamous “Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination” resolution.

(full article/video online)

Shameful Moments in UNGA History: Arafat’s 1974 Address


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek*

A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'

**


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslem terrorists letters to UNRWA


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Saying goodbye to Rasmea.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Introducing Khaldi Twins!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Ooh.  The wild boar libel.  One of my favourites.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Saying goodbye to Rasmea.*



She taught you how to be human?!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

[These....continue to be the "Palestinians"  ]

Claiming that the Palestine of 1917 was a “prosperous, progressive” country, Abbas said that the Balfour Declaration and the subsequent imposition of the British Mandate amounted to a “historical injustice.”

In UN General Assembly Speeches, Palestinian and Iranian Leaders Savage Israel and Zionism


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Najla Said*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Solidarity Demonstration in Nazareth : Ferguson to Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Solidarity Demonstration: Arab-Moslems posing as Pal*istanians with Arab-Moslem terrorists.


*


----------



## Sixties Fan

[How so many Arab and non Arab countries STILL do not care for those Arabs they call Palestinians]

I don't know whether any Palestinian Syrians are among the 50,000. This article from January implies that Turkey makes it difficult for many Palestinians to enter, while this one says that their legal status in Turkey is unclear, thanks to UNRWA being their official agency and not UNHCR.

But while 50,000 is still a small number compared to the total number of Syrian refugees in Turkey, the government's willingness to allow tens of thousands to become citizens after a few years stands in stark contrast to the refusal of nearly every Arab state to allow Palestinians to become citizens after nearly 70 years of statelessness.

Turkey granting citizenship to 50K Syrians. Palestinians still shafted. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[And here is 77% of Palestine's, aka Jordan, treatment of all non Hashemite Arabs on its land]

Isn't it curious that Jordan considers over 2 million of its own citizens - people who have been citizens of Jordan for nearly 70 years - to still be "refugees" that are a burden on its resources like Syrian and Iraqi refugees are?

This has not been the only casual disparagement of Palestinians by Jordan's royal family this year. In an interview with the Washington Post in May, Jordan's King Abdullah mentioned a startling statistic:
 In 2016, for the first time, we captured and killed 40 ISIS terrorists in two major incidents. Ninety-six percent of them were of Palestinian origin.

Jordan's royal family doesn't quite consider its Palestinian citizens to be - citizens ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[And this is the Palestinians latest moves towards peace with Israel]


The agreement makes no reference to Hamas's security control over the Gaza Strip. This means that Hamas and its armed wing, Ezaddin Al-Qassam, will remain the main "law-enforcers" in the Gaza Strip. The idea that Hamas would allow Mahmoud Abbas's security forces to return to the Gaza Strip is pure illusion.


There is no mention in the agreement of Hamas's political and ideological agenda. The agreement does not require Hamas to abandon its charter, which calls for the elimination of Israel. Nor does it require Hamas to lay down its arms and accept Israel's right to exist.


The agreement absolves Hamas of its financial responsibilities towards its constituents in the Gaza Strip. The resumption of Palestinian Authority (PA) funds to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip will allow Hamas to redirect its resources and energies to building up its military capabilities in preparation for war with Israel. Hamas will no longer have to worry about salaries and electricity and medical supplies to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip because Abbas will be taking care of that.


The agreement facilitates Hamas's effort to project itself as a legitimate player in the Palestinian arena and win international recognition and sympathy. Hamas will now be able to market itself as a legitimate partner in Abbas's Western-funded PA governments.

(full article online)

The True Enemies of the Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of Rasmea’s main support groups, the U.S. Palestinian Community Network, knew better. It tweeted out images of Rasmea’s family and friends waiting for her at the airport in Amman, Jordan:






(full article online)

Terrorist Rasmea Odeh lies one last time as she is deported


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Jordan is Palestine, or it will be someday]

Jordanian officials tell their concerned friends in the West that Jordan has a free press, and, besides, these views are for domestic consumption, and should not be taken literally, writes Sharnoff, who notes that the free press argument is weak, seeing as in June 2017 Jordan revoked Al Jazeera’s license.

Sharnoff warns that “the Kingdom’s toleration of anti-Semitic propaganda violates the spirit of the 1994 peace treaty and actually harms Jordanian and Israeli interests.”

There may be another explanation to this phenomenon: why do Jordanians, who are about 80% “Palestinians,” hate Israel and the Jews with such a fervor despite the enormous advantages, economic and security-wise, Jordan receives from Israel? Because Jordanian anti-Semitism is another proof of the vast distance between the ruling Bedouin King Abdullah II and his citizenry, or, in other words – Jordan is actually Palestine. Sooner or later, that will become the reality in a post-Hashemite Jordan.

(full article online)

Jordan’s Media’s Depraved Anti-Semitism Puts in Question Close Ties with US | The Jewish Press | David Israel | 5 Tishri 5778 – September 24, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ms Hind Khoury Bethlehem Secretary General of Kairos Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



_"So if those whites get close, You know to take flight as quickly as possible"_

Racism -is one of the main reasons violent Palestinian activism is being banned in the world.
This cynical BS, is in the heart of any Palestinian conversation.  And I mean real racism - when Your whole argument is centered around defining people by skin color. And using it as a weapon to attack any opposition.

Like this Palestinian activist uses it


----------



## rylah

"The Ayyubi families of Palestine have relations in the Kurdistan Region.
We would like to be connected with other Kurds from Kurdistan.
Their numbers have increased to 70,000 families in Khalil (Hebron) city"








*Kurds of Palestine hoping to connect with home*


----------



## Sixties Fan

U.N. Clash: Son of Hamas Chief Calls PA 'Enemy of the Palestinian People' - UN Watch


----------



## Sixties Fan

Leaders of Hamas maintain that under no circumstances will they agree to lay down their weapons. Hamas is, in fact, continuing full-speed-ahead digging tunnels under the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel. Hamas is planning to use the tunnels to smuggle armed terrorists into Israel.


The accord with Hamas requires Mahmoud Abbas to lift the sanctions he recently imposed on the Gaza Strip, such as refusing to pay Israel for the electricity it supplies to Gaza. It also requires Abbas to resume payment of salaries to thousands of Palestinians who served time in Israeli prison for terror-related offenses.


Above all, Hamas wants to use the agreement to be removed from the U.S. State Department List of Foreign Terror Organizations.


The Russians are closing their ears to what Hamas itself declares day after day: that its true goal is to eliminate Israel and that it has no intention of abandoning its murderous, genocidal agenda.

(full article online)

Palestinian 'Reconciliation': Jihad is Calling!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas confidant says, the measures will end when Gaza is under PA rule


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Leaders of Hamas maintain that under no circumstances will they agree to lay down their weapons. Hamas is, in fact, continuing full-speed-ahead digging tunnels under the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel. Hamas is planning to use the tunnels to smuggle armed terrorists into Israel.
> 
> 
> The accord with Hamas requires Mahmoud Abbas to lift the sanctions he recently imposed on the Gaza Strip, such as refusing to pay Israel for the electricity it supplies to Gaza. It also requires Abbas to resume payment of salaries to thousands of Palestinians who served time in Israeli prison for terror-related offenses.
> 
> 
> Above all, Hamas wants to use the agreement to be removed from the U.S. State Department List of Foreign Terror Organizations.
> 
> 
> The Russians are closing their ears to what Hamas itself declares day after day: that its true goal is to eliminate Israel and that it has no intention of abandoning its murderous, genocidal agenda.
> 
> (full article online)
> Palestinian 'Reconciliation': Jihad is Calling!


WOW, they played 21 terrorist cards in one article!

Must be an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ynetnews Opinion - Mohammad Bakri, enemy of the Palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mnar Muhawesh Breaks The Set On Israel's Genocide of Palestinians, Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **



It’s comical how you clowns hurl the silly _genocide_™ slogan.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

The 3 Israelis murdered this morning by a Palestinian terrorist have not yet been buried and Abbas’ Fatah Movement is already celebrating the killings.

Right after this morning’s terror attack in Har Adar northwest of Jerusalem, where terrorist Nimr Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jamal shot and murdered an Israeli border police officer, two security guards and wounded another Israeli, Fatah’s Nablus Branch hurried and glorified the attack and the terrorist’s “Martyrdom” with this post on Facebook:

“What is the homeland?
It is the longing to die in order to return the right and the land that were stolen.
A morning scented with the fragrance of the Martyrs (_Shahids_).”
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Nablus Branch, Sept. 26, 2017]

(full article online)

Fatah glorifies this morning’s murderer - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The 3 Israelis murdered this morning by a Palestinian terrorist have not yet been buried and Abbas’ Fatah Movement is already celebrating the killings.
> 
> Right after this morning’s terror attack in Har Adar northwest of Jerusalem, where terrorist Nimr Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jamal shot and murdered an Israeli border police officer, two security guards and wounded another Israeli, Fatah’s Nablus Branch hurried and glorified the attack and the terrorist’s “Martyrdom” with this post on Facebook:
> 
> “What is the homeland?
> It is the longing to die in order to return the right and the land that were stolen.
> A morning scented with the fragrance of the Martyrs (_Shahids_).”
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Nablus Branch, Sept. 26, 2017]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah glorifies this morning’s murderer - PMW Bulletins





Sixties Fan said:


> The 3 Israelis murdered this morning by a Palestinian terrorist


Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 3 Israelis murdered this morning by a Palestinian terrorist have not yet been buried and Abbas’ Fatah Movement is already celebrating the killings.
> 
> Right after this morning’s terror attack in Har Adar northwest of Jerusalem, where terrorist Nimr Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jamal shot and murdered an Israeli border police officer, two security guards and wounded another Israeli, Fatah’s Nablus Branch hurried and glorified the attack and the terrorist’s “Martyrdom” with this post on Facebook:
> 
> “What is the homeland?
> It is the longing to die in order to return the right and the land that were stolen.
> A morning scented with the fragrance of the Martyrs (_Shahids_).”
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Nablus Branch, Sept. 26, 2017]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah glorifies this morning’s murderer - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 3 Israelis murdered this morning by a Palestinian terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?
Click to expand...


Tell us again why you hate the invading Arab Muslims as much as you do, that you wish to see each and every one of them dead, after they kill each and every Jew on the planet?

Such hatred over two different people simply because they are not Christians.

Let the Christians survive, that seems to be your goal.

Muslims kill the Jews.  Christians get Jerusalem.  It becomes a Christian city, all of Israel becomes Christian.

Or any of the many Christian fables and delusions so many of them tell themselves on a daily basis to EXCUSE murdering Jews.

Tin man/woman, whatever = one of the endless sad humans in the world who simply cannot stop hating Jews....because their "religion" tells them to do so.

Worse, the endless Jew hating probably comes from one of those sub denominations of Christianity which all the other denominations do not, nor will ever acknowledge as being Christian.

By all means do not care that Arabs have jobs in that Jewish community, which they depend on to make a living.

Call the Jews invaders, foreigners and terrorists.

Those Arabs who work and live WITH Jews, totally disagree with your "Christian" heartless ideas.

We all know where you got your endless Jew hating crap.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



When I "acknowledged" that the ISM "cooperates with Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine," I was offering *concrete examples of the ways in which these groups were engaging in nonviolent resistance.*

Both the ISM and the Palestine Solidarity Movement advocate nonviolent resistance to Israel's human rights abuses -- the ISM through organized action in the occupied territories and the PSM by promoting international divestment from companies that profit from occupation.

HUWAIDA ARRAF

Washington

Allowing a Mideast Conference at Georgetown

Did she just use "nonviolent" and "Hamas" in the same sentence??
And then compared it to BDS? 
Game over for this one sick puppy.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Barghouti's BDS Kumbaya in the NYT*

Barghouti is arguing that this is not a problem, because the new state would give equal rights to all and Jews would not have to worry about being persecuted as a minority under the benevolent Palestinian Arab leadership that would be democratically elected.

These assumptions are not spelled out explicitly, but they are hiding behind the soothing phrases "human rights" and "equality" and "democracy" and "non-violence."

Let's talk about these concepts and how well they would apply to a single state.

Human rights - in Egypt, Copts are second-class citizens by any definition. I just posted about an Egyptian TV show where the way to insult Islamists was by saying that they are even worse than Christians and Jews.

Similarly, Palestinians are second-class citizens in Jordan, fearful of losing their citizenship. They are treated like dirt in Lebanon. Kurds are reviled throughout the Arab world.

We don't even need to speak about human rights in Syria or Iraq or Yemen.

Even within the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Fatah are still at loggerheads, and they had a civil war not too long ago. Journalists are threatened. Christians are intimidated.

The only place in the Middle East with decent human rights for all its citizens is Israel. It isn't perfect, but it is a far sight better than in any Arab country. But Barghouti is trying to fool the West into thinking that Arabs will certainly grant equal rights to Jews when they cannot even grant Arab minorities a modicum of right.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?



The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. 

Private security guards are not "troops". 

And who do you think the real targets were?  He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town.  He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.  

Of course, he is a terrorist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.
> 
> Private security guards are not "troops".
> 
> And who do you think the real targets were?  He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town.  He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.
> 
> Of course, he is a terrorist.
Click to expand...

"Innocent" Israeli civilians.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.
> 
> Private security guards are not "troops".
> 
> And who do you think the real targets were?  He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town.  He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.
> 
> Of course, he is a terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Innocent" Israeli civilians.
Click to expand...



Oh give me a break.  You wanna play Battle-of-the-Emotional-Images? 

Innocent Israeli Jewish citizens:

















Don't you DARE try and turn the tables and make this about Israeli Jews.  This is about Palestinian terrorism. 

Your argument is that the Palestinians have a right to commit terrorism and kill (or attempt to kill) innocent people as "defense against the occupation'.  Its moral bullshit.  Its abhorrent.  Its disgusting.

A State has the obligation to protect its citizens from people who try to harm them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.
> 
> Private security guards are not "troops".
> 
> And who do you think the real targets were?  He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town.  He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.
> 
> Of course, he is a terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Innocent" Israeli civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  You wanna play Battle-of-the-Emotional-Images?
> 
> Innocent Israeli Jewish citizens:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you DARE try and turn the tables and make this about Israeli Jews.  This is about Palestinian terrorism.
> 
> Your argument is that the Palestinians have a right to commit terrorism and kill (or attempt to kill) innocent people as "defense against the occupation'.  Its moral bullshit.  Its abhorrent.  Its disgusting.
> 
> A State has the obligation to protect its citizens from people who try to harm them.
Click to expand...

How many of those did not live on stolen land?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How many of those did not live on stolen land?



So now you want to double down on the disgusting?  If they lived on stolen land, then its just darn fine for Palestinians to murder them.  Its the argument that there are no innocent Jews and that they all deserve to be killed.  Now, where have I heard THAT before?


----------



## Shusha

Seriously, its times like this when people feel justified in the deliberate murder of children and innocents that I just shake my head and want to give up trying to make peace.  How can the Jewish people live with a people who feel this way?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many of those did not live on stolen land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you want to double down on the disgusting?  If they lived on stolen land, then its just darn fine for Palestinians to murder them.  Its the argument that there are no innocent Jews and that they all deserve to be killed.  Now, where have I heard THAT before?
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Seriously, its times like this when people feel justified in the deliberate murder of children and innocents that I just shake my head and want to give up trying to make peace.  How can the Jewish people live with a people who feel this way?


I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nice deflection.



Deflection?  We WERE talking about a specific act of Palestinian terrorism.  And you are DEFENDING it by claiming that its morally acceptable to murder Jews, using an old antisemitic canard the no Jew is innocent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection?  We WERE talking about a specific act of Palestinian terrorism.  And you are DEFENDING it by claiming that its morally acceptable to murder Jews, using an old antisemitic canard the no Jew is innocent.
Click to expand...

You think Palestinian self defense is terrorism?

You need to get off that Israeli propaganda.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.



Worked for all of the ME Arab nations who expelled their Jews.

Seems to me the problems come when trying to make peace with a people who wants to kill you.  Perhaps better for the expulsion to have been mutual, as ugly as that is.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You think Palestinian self defense is terrorism?



You think violating a family's home and murdering a child in her sleep is "self-defense"?  You think violating a family's Shabbat meal and murdering a father protecting his wife and children is "self-defense"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Worked for all of the ME Arab nations who expelled their Jews.
> 
> Seems to me the problems come when trying to make peace with a people who wants to kill you.  Perhaps better for the expulsion to have been mutual, as ugly as that is.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when foreigners came down to give them the boot and steal their stuff.

How can you blame the Palestinians for defending themselves from that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Worked for all of the ME Arab nations who expelled their Jews.
> 
> Seems to me the problems come when trying to make peace with a people who wants to kill you.  Perhaps better for the expulsion to have been mutual, as ugly as that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when foreigners came down to give them the boot and steal their stuff.
> 
> How can you blame the Palestinians for defending themselves from that?
Click to expand...


Oh, me, oh, my.

The Jews had always lived on THEIR HOMELAND.  They must be considered Palestinians, too, if you insist in calling the area Palestine.

The Arab Palestinians, like all other Palestinians were not "minding their own business".  They were being treated badly by the Ottoman Turks, because it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

The only ones who saw themselves being given the boot and having their "stuff" stolen were the Jews, from 1920 to 1948.

Not only "given the boot" but murdered and raped as well.

You insist in painting a Palestine where the Jews never had a Nation on it, where there were actually no Jews at all living on the land, and they just came, out of nowhere (the brutes), to steal a land, etc which had never belonged to them.

JEWS, and not ARABS, are the indigenous, rightful owners of the land.

JEWS, and not ARABS, have the right to call themselves Palestinians, as the name was given to their LAND, Judea, etc by the Romans who defeated them, and not any Arab clan - there were no Arab clans living on the land at the time, not until 500 years later when the Arab Muslims invaded en masse.

Go tell the Arab foreigners to go back to where they came from, Arabia.
It will be a much more peaceful world, once the Muslim Arabs go back where they used to be semi peaceful and did not spend as much time stealing each other clan's lands.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How can you blame the Palestinians for defending themselves from that?



But they are NOT defending themselves. No one is attacking them.

They are using terrorism to remove another people's from land.

It's not the same thing. And those other people's have an equal right to be there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews had always lived on THEIR HOMELAND. They must be considered Palestinians, too, if you insist in calling the area Palestine.


You are banging on an issue that is not disputed. The Jews who had lived there forever became Palestinians with the rest of the Palestinians after WWI.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews had always lived on THEIR HOMELAND. They must be considered Palestinians, too, if you insist in calling the area Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> You are banging on an issue that is not disputed. The Jews who had lived there forever became Palestinians with the rest of the Palestinians after WWI.
Click to expand...

The Jews became "Palestinians" like the Arabs and all others because the Mandate used the word Palestine and not Israel, that is all.

Once the Mandate came to a full fruition, once the British finally gave up the Mandate in 1947, the UN approved that the Jews could establish their State.  The Arabs refused to establish theirs.

Israel exists because the Jews did everything necessary from 1920 on to create a State, from infrastructure to everything else.

The Arabs only attacked and wanted to keep Israel (The Mandate for Palestine) from happening.

NOW, it is a matter for them to destroy the State they never wanted to see being established via all the attacks and the wars the Arab League started each and every time, in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.

It was never the "Palestinians" and their rights to a homeland, a State, but the rights of the Muslims to keep the land in Muslim hands.

And it is that way till today.  No matter how many Arabs are fooled into believing that their problems come from the Jews.

Islam is a conquering ideology.  They HATE losing land.  Just ask them about Andalusia, Vienna and many other parts of Europe they once had control over. 

Muslims Only.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Once the Mandate came to a full fruition, once the British finally gave up the Mandate in 1947, the UN approved that the Jews could establish their State. The Arabs refused to establish theirs.


You are full of shit. That is not what happened.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> It was never the "Palestinians" and their rights to a homeland, a State, but the rights of the Muslims to keep the land in Muslim hands.


Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think Palestinian self defense is terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You think violating a family's home and murdering a child in her sleep is "self-defense"?  You think violating a family's Shabbat meal and murdering a father protecting his wife and children is "self-defense"?
Click to expand...

*Between our life and our mother Algeria, we chose our mother: Excerpt from ‘Inside the Battle of Algiers: Memoir of a Woman Freedom Fighter’*

Former Algerian female fighter Zohra Drif writes in her new memoir, "Perhaps the reader of today expects me to regret having placed bombs in public places frequented by European civilians. I do not. To do so would be to obscure the central problem of settler colonialism by trying to pass off the European civilians of the day for (at best) mere tourists visiting Algeria or (at worst) the 'natural' inheritors of our land in place of its legitimate children."

*Between our life and our mother Algeria, we chose our mother: Excerpt from ‘Inside the Battle of Algiers: Memoir of a Woman Freedom Fighter’*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You are banging on an issue that is not disputed. The Jews who had lived there forever became Palestinians with the rest of the Palestinians after WWI.



And THOSE Jews are part of a collective of the Jewish people, who, as a collective, have the right to sovereignty in their homeland. It IS their homeland.  It doesn't matter if they were forced into a diaspora ten years ago or a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago -- that is their native land.  And ALL Peoples have a right to sovereignty on their native land.  

Trying to remove the Jewish people from lands over which they have rights to sovereignty is not defending yourself. Its just denying rights to others -- the right to self-determination, the right to sovereignty, the right to life.  

Its just ugly.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> It doesn't matter if they were forced into a diaspora ten years ago or a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago


So, the right to return applies to future generations.

That's good to know.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> "Perhaps the reader of today expects me to regret having placed bombs in public places frequented by European civilians. I do not. To do so would be to obscure the central problem of settler colonialism by trying to pass off the European civilians of the day for (at best) mere tourists visiting Algeria or (at worst) the 'natural' inheritors of our land in place of its legitimate children."



Yes.  I am fully aware that there are people in the world who believe that it is morally permissible to murder civilians.  And yes.  I am fully aware that you are one of them.  

It is a reprehensible and abhorrent ideology.  


Thank G-d the Jewish people have never adopted such a vile ideology.  The question for the Jewish people is what to DO with those who hold this vile ideology.  What is the SOLUTION?!  Clearly the long-term solution is education.  Its raising the next generations to believe in the sacredness of life and of respect for the rights of all peoples and not just some.  

The job of repairing the world may not be completed in my lifetime, but this does not give me leave to stop trying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.


So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, the right to return applies to future generations.
> 
> That's good to know.



That has always been my argument (obviously).  I uphold that argument for the Palestinian people as well. 

In a world where EACH People have a sovereign, independent, self-governing and self-determining State -- return is NOT a problem and will not result in conflict.  But, of course, you can't imagine that sort of equality.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think Palestinian self defense is terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You think violating a family's home and murdering a child in her sleep is "self-defense"?  You think violating a family's Shabbat meal and murdering a father protecting his wife and children is "self-defense"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Between our life and our mother Algeria, we chose our mother: Excerpt from ‘Inside the Battle of Algiers: Memoir of a Woman Freedom Fighter’*
> 
> Former Algerian female fighter Zohra Drif writes in her new memoir, "Perhaps the reader of today expects me to regret having placed bombs in public places frequented by European civilians. I do not. To do so would be to obscure the central problem of settler colonialism by trying to pass off the European civilians of the day for (at best) mere tourists visiting Algeria or (at worst) the 'natural' inheritors of our land in place of its legitimate children."
> 
> *Between our life and our mother Algeria, we chose our mother: Excerpt from ‘Inside the Battle of Algiers: Memoir of a Woman Freedom Fighter’*
Click to expand...


What to make of your eternal jokes.

This woman was an indigenous person in Algeria fighting French colonialism.  They would have fought the Turks if they had been able to before the Ottoman Empire fell.  Their ancestors could not.  They did not want to go from Ottoman colonialism to someone else's colonialism.  It is the Algerian people's land.

Jews are the indigenous people of Palestine, and were fighting the British and Arab colonialism which tried to deny them sovereignty over their traditional ancient Jewish Homeland.  ONLY the Jewish ancient homeland.
WHICH, they lost 77% of because the British simply GAVE it away to colonizing Arabs from Arabia, the poor, poor Hashemites.

You are such a hoot !!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.
> 
> 
> 
> So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?
Click to expand...


You start by saying, "The Jewish people got the boot and had their stuff stolen.  We came along afterward to land which belonged to them.  And we should most heartily welcome them home."


----------



## Shusha

Then you can say, (and it would be true), "We are not very different from the Syrians and the Jordanians.  We are all the same people.  We have Syria.  We have Jordan.  We have Gaza.  We have parts of the West Bank.  The Jewish people should have a homeland too.  We can live with them, if you'd like, but it is their home and they will decide what it looks like.  It will be their culture which will be most prominent.  And that's okay.  There is plenty to love about Jewish culture.  And they will not forbid us our own.  And they will treat us with respect and equality.  If we want to live immersed in our culture, we will need to move.  And that's okay too.  And in our countries, we will not forbid them their own culture.  And we will treat them with respect and equality.  There is space enough in the world for both of us."


Why is this so HARD?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.
> 
> 
> 
> So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?
Click to expand...


They got the deserved BOOT in 1948 because they were dumb enough to listen to their violent, thieving Arab Leaders who promised that they would have the Jews killed and Israel destroyed in about two weeks time.

Those thieving violent Arab leaders lost, just as all the Arabs from the Mandate lost because they chose WAR of Israel and the Jews and destroy them, instead of living side be side and build and make things better for everyone.

Those expelled by Israel were the ones who stupidly followed their Arab leaders into wanting to kill all the Jews, they lost, and being enemy combatants, they were BOOTED OUT of Israel, for the safety sake of all Israelis, Jews, Arabs, etc, who were put through a war of annihilation of all Jews.

When a violent religion makes its people declare war and want to kill all the people on the other side, when they lose, THEY LOSE.

Stuff Stolen!!!!!

Go tell that to those who were murdered in 1929 in Sfad and Hevron, or all the Jews from TransJordan in 1920, or all the Jews kicked out of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem (only one touched) in 1948.

THEY were BOOTED OUT.
THEY were KILLED.
THEY had their "stuff" (homes, lands, businesses, etc) stolen by the thieving Arabs.


Give the Jews back their STUFF!!!

From homes and lands and businesses in Gaza.
From homes and lands and businesses in TranJordan.
From homes and lands and business in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.

Go cry a river for the thieves somewhere else !!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Yes. I am fully aware that there are people in the world who believe that it is morally permissible to murder civilians. And yes. I am fully aware that you are one of them.


Indeed, and they do it with colonization.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.
> 
> 
> 
> So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They got the deserved BOOT in 1948 because they were dumb enough to listen to their violent, thieving Arab Leaders who promised that they would have the Jews killed and Israel destroyed in about two weeks time.
> 
> Those thieving violent Arab leaders lost, just as all the Arabs from the Mandate lost because they chose WAR of Israel and the Jews and destroy them, instead of living side be side and build and make things better for everyone.
> 
> Those expelled by Israel were the ones who stupidly followed their Arab leaders into wanting to kill all the Jews, they lost, and being enemy combatants, they were BOOTED OUT of Israel, for the safety sake of all Israelis, Jews, Arabs, etc, who were put through a war of annihilation of all Jews.
> 
> When a violent religion makes its people declare war and want to kill all the people on the other side, when they lose, THEY LOSE.
> 
> Stuff Stolen!!!!!
> 
> Go tell that to those who were murdered in 1929 in Sfad and Hevron, or all the Jews from TransJordan in 1920, or all the Jews kicked out of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem (only one touched) in 1948.
> 
> THEY were BOOTED OUT.
> THEY were KILLED.
> THEY had their "stuff" (homes, lands, businesses, etc) stolen by the thieving Arabs.
> 
> 
> Give the Jews back their STUFF!!!
> 
> From homes and lands and businesses in Gaza.
> From homes and lands and businesses in TranJordan.
> From homes and lands and business in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.
> 
> Go cry a river for the thieves somewhere else !!!!
Click to expand...

Too stupid to warrant a response.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, the right to return applies to future generations.
> 
> That's good to know.




And, btw, don't take liberties with that.  It is a collective right, not an individual one.  And it applies in the context of EACH people having a place to return to that is their sovereign homeland.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.
> 
> 
> 
> So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They got the deserved BOOT in 1948 because they were dumb enough to listen to their violent, thieving Arab Leaders who promised that they would have the Jews killed and Israel destroyed in about two weeks time.
> 
> Those thieving violent Arab leaders lost, just as all the Arabs from the Mandate lost because they chose WAR of Israel and the Jews and destroy them, instead of living side be side and build and make things better for everyone.
> 
> Those expelled by Israel were the ones who stupidly followed their Arab leaders into wanting to kill all the Jews, they lost, and being enemy combatants, they were BOOTED OUT of Israel, for the safety sake of all Israelis, Jews, Arabs, etc, who were put through a war of annihilation of all Jews.
> 
> When a violent religion makes its people declare war and want to kill all the people on the other side, when they lose, THEY LOSE.
> 
> Stuff Stolen!!!!!
> 
> Go tell that to those who were murdered in 1929 in Sfad and Hevron, or all the Jews from TransJordan in 1920, or all the Jews kicked out of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem (only one touched) in 1948.
> 
> THEY were BOOTED OUT.
> THEY were KILLED.
> THEY had their "stuff" (homes, lands, businesses, etc) stolen by the thieving Arabs.
> 
> 
> Give the Jews back their STUFF!!!
> 
> From homes and lands and businesses in Gaza.
> From homes and lands and businesses in TranJordan.
> From homes and lands and business in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.
> 
> Go cry a river for the thieves somewhere else !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too stupid to warrant a response.
Click to expand...


No, my dear, your mind is too empty to acknowledge any of the above and ever be able to respond to what happened to all the Jews from 1920 to 1948.

You are a thief.  Plain and simple.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the right to return applies to future generations.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw, don't take liberties with that.  It is a collective right, not an individual one.  And it applies in the context of EACH people having a place to return to that is their sovereign homeland.
Click to expand...

OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.
> 
> 
> 
> So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They got the deserved BOOT in 1948 because they were dumb enough to listen to their violent, thieving Arab Leaders who promised that they would have the Jews killed and Israel destroyed in about two weeks time.
> 
> Those thieving violent Arab leaders lost, just as all the Arabs from the Mandate lost because they chose WAR of Israel and the Jews and destroy them, instead of living side be side and build and make things better for everyone.
> 
> Those expelled by Israel were the ones who stupidly followed their Arab leaders into wanting to kill all the Jews, they lost, and being enemy combatants, they were BOOTED OUT of Israel, for the safety sake of all Israelis, Jews, Arabs, etc, who were put through a war of annihilation of all Jews.
> 
> When a violent religion makes its people declare war and want to kill all the people on the other side, when they lose, THEY LOSE.
> 
> Stuff Stolen!!!!!
> 
> Go tell that to those who were murdered in 1929 in Sfad and Hevron, or all the Jews from TransJordan in 1920, or all the Jews kicked out of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem (only one touched) in 1948.
> 
> THEY were BOOTED OUT.
> THEY were KILLED.
> THEY had their "stuff" (homes, lands, businesses, etc) stolen by the thieving Arabs.
> 
> 
> Give the Jews back their STUFF!!!
> 
> From homes and lands and businesses in Gaza.
> From homes and lands and businesses in TranJordan.
> From homes and lands and business in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.
> 
> Go cry a river for the thieves somewhere else !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too stupid to warrant a response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, my dear, your mind is too empty to acknowledge any of the above and ever be able to respond to what happened to all the Jews from 1920 to 1948.
> 
> You are a thief.  Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

The Zionist colonial project started before 1920.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the right to return applies to future generations.
> 
> That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw, don't take liberties with that.  It is a collective right, not an individual one.  And it applies in the context of EACH people having a place to return to that is their sovereign homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
Click to expand...


NONE of the Palestinians, being Arabs, have ancestors going back thousands of years, as the Jewish People do.



And they are not "European" settlers.  They are Jews from Asia Minor who lives in Europe for a period of time and then returned to their Ancient ancestral homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> NONE of the Palestinians, being Arabs, have ancestors going back thousands of years, as the Jewish People do.


Links?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the SOLUTION?! Clearly the long-term solution is education.
> 
> 
> 
> So, how do you educate away the fact that they got the boot and had their stuff stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They got the deserved BOOT in 1948 because they were dumb enough to listen to their violent, thieving Arab Leaders who promised that they would have the Jews killed and Israel destroyed in about two weeks time.
> 
> Those thieving violent Arab leaders lost, just as all the Arabs from the Mandate lost because they chose WAR of Israel and the Jews and destroy them, instead of living side be side and build and make things better for everyone.
> 
> Those expelled by Israel were the ones who stupidly followed their Arab leaders into wanting to kill all the Jews, they lost, and being enemy combatants, they were BOOTED OUT of Israel, for the safety sake of all Israelis, Jews, Arabs, etc, who were put through a war of annihilation of all Jews.
> 
> When a violent religion makes its people declare war and want to kill all the people on the other side, when they lose, THEY LOSE.
> 
> Stuff Stolen!!!!!
> 
> Go tell that to those who were murdered in 1929 in Sfad and Hevron, or all the Jews from TransJordan in 1920, or all the Jews kicked out of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem (only one touched) in 1948.
> 
> THEY were BOOTED OUT.
> THEY were KILLED.
> THEY had their "stuff" (homes, lands, businesses, etc) stolen by the thieving Arabs.
> 
> 
> Give the Jews back their STUFF!!!
> 
> From homes and lands and businesses in Gaza.
> From homes and lands and businesses in TranJordan.
> From homes and lands and business in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.
> 
> Go cry a river for the thieves somewhere else !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too stupid to warrant a response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, my dear, your mind is too empty to acknowledge any of the above and ever be able to respond to what happened to all the Jews from 1920 to 1948.
> 
> You are a thief.  Plain and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionist colonial project started before 1920.
Click to expand...


The Zionist return of the Jewish People to sovereignty on their ancestral homeland never stopped, from the time some Jews were taken to Babylon some 2700 years before the present.

They simply did not get to achieve that full sovereignty again until 1948.
And returning to their homeland was a constant thing with Jews, as explained to you a few thousand times.

Arabs were never RETURNING to their ancestral homeland in Palestine.
They could return to Arabia which is their ancestral homeland.
ALL other lands invaded outside of Arabia by Arabs after the 7th century are not the ancestral homelands of the Arabs, but of all indigenous people who were already living on the land at the time they invaded it.

Zionism is not an ugly word.  It means freedom to be sovereign on the Jewish own ancestral homeland, and no one else's.

Zionism happened because of people like you who deny the Jewish people their rights.
Israel happened because it was time for it to be sovereign again.

Neither is going away.  

Israel, or its sovereignty over its ancient land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?



The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.  

Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.  

It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman.

That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
Click to expand...


This is how you work.

Christians and Muslims steal "stuff".  It is ok.

Jews get sovereignty over their ancient homeland, only, it is stealing people's stuff.

One rule for Christians and Muslims.
Another rule for Jews.

Quick, Robin, leave the thief to cry over his "stuff" all alone.

Thieves always cry and cry and cry, and this one is one of the worse we have seen, if not THE worse.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
Click to expand...


What excused the Arabs to loot and massacre the Jewish community in Palestine, before Zionism?


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What excused the Arabs to loot and massacre the Jewish community in Palestine, before Zionism?
Click to expand...


Islam, and always Islam, the RIGHT of Islam,  was the excuse the Arabs used to attack, steal, rape the Jews BEFORE Zionism.

And he knows it too well.


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What excused the Arabs to loot and massacre the Jewish community in Palestine, before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam, and always Islam, the RIGHT of Islam,  was the excuse the Arabs used to attack, steal, rape the Jews BEFORE Zionism.
> 
> And he knows it too well.
Click to expand...


And today, Sharia is officially at the basis of Palestinian law.
And the Palestinian ambassador openly promotes eviction of ALL Jews from a future Palestinian state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What excused the Arabs to loot and massacre the Jewish community in Palestine, before Zionism?
Click to expand...

Like what?
How many generations ago?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What excused the Arabs to loot and massacre the Jewish community in Palestine, before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
> How many generations ago?
Click to expand...


Just prior to political Zionism. Look 1 generation before that, look 2, look 3...
 Arabs massacred their Jewish neighbors in Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, collectively speaking, how many of those European settlers have ancestors from that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are a people collectively.  They ALL have ancestors from that territory.  *Else they would not BE Jewish.*  Its the act of being Jewish -- culturally, ethnically, religiously -- that MAKES them part of the Jewish collective.
> 
> Its not a matter of having the correct paperwork from 345 or 702 or 1121 or 1725 or 1814 or 1949. There is no way to have some sort of documentation from a diaspora which began so many thousands of years ago.  Its a matter of self-identifying and being accepted by that People.  Its a matter of being connected to the Jewish culture which arose on that territory.
> 
> It is the same measurement which is used to define indigenous peoples all over the world.  What is WRONG with measuring it in that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> That is a pretty lame excuse to steal people's stuff.
Click to expand...


Put the shoe on the other foot, Tinmore.  According to your argument, the only Palestinians are those who are still in the land who have some sort of proof that they had ancestors from that territory earlier than 1925.  The rest of them aren't really Palestinians.  They are Jordanians, or Chilean or American or whatever.  They don't count.  They don't have rights.  And if they return -- they are "settlers" stealing Jewish stuff.

So, I told you how I define a People.  How do you?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamics on Islamic degeneracy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians, whose PA was just accepted into the (who knows who the members are) Interpol ]

31 PA schools named after terrorists
3 PA schools named after Nazi collaborators
41 PA school names glorify Martyrs or Martyrdom School funded by Belgium given name of terrorist 

(full article online)

http://palwatch.org/STORAGE/special...schools named after terrorists, Sept 2017.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore

A 1995 talk that could me made today.

*Hanan Ashrawi, "The Side of Peace: A Personal Account" (Ford Hall Forum, 1995)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek: Women Against Imperialism Panel*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

Conspicuously, the Swedes are totally oblivious to the fact that Human Rights pertain to all humans not just Palestinians. Ashrawi has been an advocate for and an apologist of violence through decades of her "activism" as a Palestinian "legislator" and an official of the Arab League having and had little to do with peace or with coexistence. The Palme Center and the current Swedish Foreign Minister are doing a disservice to humanity and to the cause of peace by this dubious honor. And Ashrawi? She is laughing all the way to the (west) bank..... 

Ashrawi represents a group that is actively engaged in violence and for the convenience of the occasional propaganda campaign(s) she utters words like "peace" that are absolutely obsequious and mean nothing other than serving as a deceptive component in a campaign of disinformation. This campaign takes place at several levels but the most important one is that of the Arab public which is being fed an overdose of anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish, and anti-American convoluted propaganda that became the "objectified reality" for millions of captive consumers who are not offered other views or the option of choosing between them. The infamous Egyptian TV series has now reached the stage of the blatant blood libel against the Jews suggesting "they have a plan to rule all of humanity" ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: "The Jew's racist plan to rule all of humanity," Itamar Marcus, Palestinian Media Watch Bulletin, November 21, 2002). 

Some Arab writers maintain that airing this TV series has little to do with freedom-of-expression (one notes that it does not exist in the Arab world) and they debunk Arab arguments that they are Semites too and hence "cannot be anti-Semitic." However, the majority of the Arab press supports the airing of the defaming series as a given truth, as a right, and as a good move to bring the "word" to the viewers ("Arab Press Debates Antisemitic Egyptian Series: 'Knight Without a Horse' - Part II," MEMRI, Inquiry and Analysis - Egypt/Arab Antisemitism, November 20, 2002, No. 113; see MEMRI's synopsis of the series at the end of the article).

-------
Perhaps it might be helpful to examine Who are the Palestinians? (Yashiko Sagamori, National Unity Coalition, November 18, 2002, Our Jerusalem, 11/20/2002) in order to develop a better understanding to one of the greatest international frauds ever concocted. What the Palestinians and Arabs want can be best described as a child of a very large family who wants to take away the toys AND the playground of the neighbors' only child. When the police think that this is a simple feud between two children that could be resolved, it turns out that the family and other neighbors lay (unsubstantiated) claims to the toys and to the playground alike and have beaten up the kid. Even when the court later rules that the claims for the property are unfounded, those decisions are ignored and not respected. Appeasing the bullies will work only if there is a readiness to give up. The bully will not change his way with appeasement. Short of that it is imperative to do exactly the opposite ("A return to Jacksonian Zionism, "Caroline B. Glick, The Jerusalem Post, Nov. 22, 2002).
------------------
The head of the (Palestinian) Islamic Jihad (Sheikh Assad Tamimi, author of a 1982 booklet "The Obliteration of Israel: A Koranic Imperative" - see "The Islamic Jihad: the Imperative of Holy War," A Special Report, Boaz Ganor, ICT) stated in 1990 that "The Jews have to return to the countries from which they came. We shall not accede to a Jewish state on our land, even if it is only one village." And shortly before his death, Faysal Al-Husseini gave an interview to an Egyptian newspaper where he openly admitted that the Oslo peace overture with Israel was a Trojan Horse aimed to dismantle Israel. Thus past Palestinian "peace offerings" (not to mention signed agreements) were nothing but a deception campaign. Interestingly enough, one could point out to Sheikh Tamimi that the Jews have indeed returned to the country they came from, namely, Israel.

(full article online)

With Peace Like This Who Needs War?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Conspicuously, the Swedes are totally oblivious to the fact that Human Rights pertain to all humans not just Palestinians. Ashrawi has been an advocate for and an apologist of violence through decades of her "activism" as a Palestinian "legislator" and an official of the Arab League having and had little to do with peace or with coexistence. The Palme Center and the current Swedish Foreign Minister are doing a disservice to humanity and to the cause of peace by this dubious honor. And Ashrawi? She is laughing all the way to the (west) bank.....
> 
> Ashrawi represents a group that is actively engaged in violence and for the convenience of the occasional propaganda campaign(s) she utters words like "peace" that are absolutely obsequious and mean nothing other than serving as a deceptive component in a campaign of disinformation. This campaign takes place at several levels but the most important one is that of the Arab public which is being fed an overdose of anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish, and anti-American convoluted propaganda that became the "objectified reality" for millions of captive consumers who are not offered other views or the option of choosing between them. The infamous Egyptian TV series has now reached the stage of the blatant blood libel against the Jews suggesting "they have a plan to rule all of humanity" ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: "The Jew's racist plan to rule all of humanity," Itamar Marcus, Palestinian Media Watch Bulletin, November 21, 2002).
> 
> Some Arab writers maintain that airing this TV series has little to do with freedom-of-expression (one notes that it does not exist in the Arab world) and they debunk Arab arguments that they are Semites too and hence "cannot be anti-Semitic." However, the majority of the Arab press supports the airing of the defaming series as a given truth, as a right, and as a good move to bring the "word" to the viewers ("Arab Press Debates Antisemitic Egyptian Series: 'Knight Without a Horse' - Part II," MEMRI, Inquiry and Analysis - Egypt/Arab Antisemitism, November 20, 2002, No. 113; see MEMRI's synopsis of the series at the end of the article).
> 
> -------
> Perhaps it might be helpful to examine Who are the Palestinians? (Yashiko Sagamori, National Unity Coalition, November 18, 2002, Our Jerusalem, 11/20/2002) in order to develop a better understanding to one of the greatest international frauds ever concocted. What the Palestinians and Arabs want can be best described as a child of a very large family who wants to take away the toys AND the playground of the neighbors' only child. When the police think that this is a simple feud between two children that could be resolved, it turns out that the family and other neighbors lay (unsubstantiated) claims to the toys and to the playground alike and have beaten up the kid. Even when the court later rules that the claims for the property are unfounded, those decisions are ignored and not respected. Appeasing the bullies will work only if there is a readiness to give up. The bully will not change his way with appeasement. Short of that it is imperative to do exactly the opposite ("A return to Jacksonian Zionism, "Caroline B. Glick, The Jerusalem Post, Nov. 22, 2002).
> ------------------
> The head of the (Palestinian) Islamic Jihad (Sheikh Assad Tamimi, author of a 1982 booklet "The Obliteration of Israel: A Koranic Imperative" - see "The Islamic Jihad: the Imperative of Holy War," A Special Report, Boaz Ganor, ICT) stated in 1990 that "The Jews have to return to the countries from which they came. We shall not accede to a Jewish state on our land, even if it is only one village." And shortly before his death, Faysal Al-Husseini gave an interview to an Egyptian newspaper where he openly admitted that the Oslo peace overture with Israel was a Trojan Horse aimed to dismantle Israel. Thus past Palestinian "peace offerings" (not to mention signed agreements) were nothing but a deception campaign. Interestingly enough, one could point out to Sheikh Tamimi that the Jews have indeed returned to the country they came from, namely, Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With Peace Like This Who Needs War?


Sour grapes post by Israeli propagandists.

Nobody worth their salt is not slimed by the criminal class.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Somehow, Palestinians and Interpol do not go together, considering the description of what Interpol was created for]

Interpol, the world’s biggest international organization after the United Nations, enables member states to exchange intelligence and to work together to find ways to cope with international crime, from terrorism to human trafficking.

In blow to Israel, Interpol admits Palestine as full member


----------



## Sixties Fan

Which Came First – Arab Terror or the ‘Occupation’?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Which Came First – Arab Terror or the ‘Occupation’?


The occupation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Came First – Arab Terror or the ‘Occupation’?
> 
> 
> 
> The occupation.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right.

First came the Arab occupation in the 7th Century, then came terror upon terror on the Jewish indigenous people of the land.  How dare they not convert to Islam.

How dare they think that they can become sovereign of their own ancient homeland when it was once conquered by Arab Muslims and it must remain in any Muslim's hand.

The Arab, Muslim occupation of some part of the land of Israel is OVER !


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Came First – Arab Terror or the ‘Occupation’?
> 
> 
> 
> The occupation.
Click to expand...


For Tinmore, the "occupation" started somewhere in the mid 1800s when the mere presence of Jews on Jewish ancestral land was a violation of inviolable Arab sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha

He's not as bad as some.  Some say that the Jewish usurping of the Islamic stories of Abraham and Solomon are the original "occupation".


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Came First – Arab Terror or the ‘Occupation’?
> 
> 
> 
> The occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For Tinmore, the "occupation" started somewhere in the mid 1800s when the mere presence of Jews on Jewish ancestral land was a violation of inviolable Arab sovereignty.
Click to expand...


There were attacks on Jews way before that, whenever one Caliph, or Sheik, or another felt like having the people riot on the Jews and stealing all they had worked for.

1834 is one such example.

1834 looting of Safed - Wikipedia

[But, but, but....the Jews started it.  It is all the Jew's fault....but, but, but....]


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [But, but, but....the Jews started it.  It is all the Jew's fault....but, but, but....]



Of course the Jews started it.  The Jews are not to be PERMITTED to be there.  The very act of being there is a violation of Palestinian human rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Came First – Arab Terror or the ‘Occupation’?
> 
> 
> 
> The occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For Tinmore, the "occupation" started somewhere in the mid 1800s when the mere presence of Jews on Jewish ancestral land was a violation of inviolable Arab sovereignty.
Click to expand...

You are mixing stories. That is why you are confused.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The difference between the Kurdish nationality and the Palestinian nationality lies in the ability to survive as an independent state and in the price of this kind of independence. With the Palestinians, it means harming Israel’s security, which is why the interest is reduced independence, somewhere between an autonomy and Netanyahu’s “state minus.” With the Kurds, nationality means a contribution to regional stability. And that’s, very briefly, the entire difference between interest and theory.

(full article online)

Ynetnews Opinion - Kurds and Palestinians? There’s no comparison


----------



## Sixties Fan

‘Palestinians’ who work for Israeli businesses get a much higher salary and all the social benefits according to Israeli law than they can ever hope to receive working in PA territory. Even so, this cannot compete with the salaries the PA provides for terrorists, prisoners and ‘martyrs’.







For example, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute, the allowances for terrorists in Israeli prisons range from $364 (NIS 1,500) a month for a term of up to three years to $3,120 (NIS 13,000) for a term of 30 years and more. There is a monthly $78 supplement for terrorists from Jerusalem and a $130 supplement for Arab Israeli terrorists.






When prisoners are released, they get a grant and are promised a job at the Palestinian Authority. They get a military rank that’s determined according to the number of years they’ve served in jail.

They get money for Jewish blood. Blood money.

This money comes from the budget of the Palestinian Authority. That money comes from foreign aid sent by EU countries, the United States etc.

You need to know that if your country is sending foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority, your money, your taxes are blood money for dead Jews.

You are funding our murder.

That is what you need to know.

(full article online)

3 Things You Should Know About the Terror Attack in Har Adar | The Jewish Press | Forest Rain | 8 Tishri 5778 – September 28, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah does not cease to promote terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi as a role model for Palestinian youth. During a visit by Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki to Fatah's Al-Asifa Pioneers Summer Camp in Hebron this August, girls paraded with two flags: one, the official Palestinian flag, and the other had the image of terrorist Mughrabi. Mughrabi led the bus hijacking and murder of 37 civilians, 12 of them children, during what is known as the Coastal Road massacre, in 1978.

The picture of Mughrabi on the flag holding an automatic rifle is a well-known photo, often used by Fatah when praising her as a "role model" and "Martyr." For example, when members of Fatah's Central Committee celebrated the attack and praised the female terrorist on the anniversary of her attack, the photo was displayed on stage at the event.  

(full article online)

Fatah summer camp glorified terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...es-exposed-by-former-hamas-leader/2017/09/28/


----------



## Sixties Fan

And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.

(full article online)

Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Why Palestinians are who they are and think the way they do.
And why they will never allow future generations to have normal, peaceful lives ]

The study also shows that cities established by Jews in modern times, including Tel Aviv, are sometimes not shown on maps. “Israel is not a legitimate state according to the PA schoolbooks studied at UNRWA schools,” the study says. “The name ‘Israel’ does not appear on the map at all.”

In many cases, “Palestine” appears instead and covers Israel's pre-1967 territories as well. The almost complete erasure of the name "Israel" from the newly published PA schoolbooks of 2016-2017 is “a disturbing development,” the researchers wrote. “[As are] the numerous demonizing descriptions of the Jewish state and its replacement by the expression ‘Zionist occupation.’”

(full article online)

New UNRWA textbooks for Palestinians demonize Israel and Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

The current head of the PA police is modestly referred to in formal documents and press releases as "*His Excellency Major General Hazim Attallah*". He was appointed to the role in March 2008, promoting a US official to submit this brief backgrounder up the reporting chain from where it eventually found its way into *Wikileaks*.

Some highlights [italics mean direct quotes]:

Attallah previously served as "_the military secretary and a security advisor in the Office of the President_" of the PA. 
He became "_a security advisor to President Abbas in 2005 and military secretary to PM Salam Fayyad in September 2007_."
A "_savvy internal operator who has managed to effectively navigate between PM Salam Fayyad and President Abbas and make himself necessary to both... [An] unusual choice for police chief--he spent most of his security time in the Preventive Security Organization (PSO) and his recent assignments have been advisory/political, not management_."
"_The PA police headquarters is full of senior figures who will, at least initially, *view Attallah as a political interloper*_." 
"_Born in 1959 in Bayt Surik (near Jerusalem)_..." That's an interesting note: it's the small village from where the Palestinian Arab shooter who murdered three Israelis at Har Adar two days ago ["*26-Sep-17: At Har Adar's entrance, an Arab-on-Israeli shooter with problems and a solution*"] came. 
"_Attended Bulgaria's military academy from 1980 to 1984... the son of Husni Muhammad Attallah ("Abu Za'im"), a former head of Fatah military intelligence and senior PLO official until a high-profile break with Arafat in 1986.._." 

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 28-Sep-17: Now that the Palestinian Arabs are embraced by Interpol...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017
Click to expand...



Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."

Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel. 

We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations. 

Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."
> 
> Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel.
> 
> We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations.
> 
> Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.
> 
> I am going to try to go back and stomach some more of that video.  But only because I'm waiting for my hair dye to set.
Click to expand...


Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.

Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."
> 
> Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel.
> 
> We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations.
> 
> Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.
> 
> I am going to try to go back and stomach some more of that video.  But only because I'm waiting for my hair dye to set.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.
> 
> Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?
Click to expand...

This was in response to a post about supposed antisemitism in the Labour Party.

Do try to keep up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."
> 
> Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel.
> 
> We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations.
> 
> Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.
> 
> I am going to try to go back and stomach some more of that video.  But only because I'm waiting for my hair dye to set.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.
> 
> Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This was in response to a post about supposed antisemitism in the Labour Party.
> 
> Do try to keep up.
Click to expand...


It is not supposed.  Everyone knows that the Labour Party in England has too many anti Israel/ anti-Jewish problems.

And I was answering Susha.  Thank you so much.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is why everyone is running into trouble. In the Labour mainstream, ‘Palestine solidarity’ is being confused with a movement of peace.  This is a dangerously false appraisal, that has allowed for maximalist Arab political demands, to become the basis for acceptance into the Labour fold.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Facing raw antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."
> 
> Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel.
> 
> We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations.
> 
> Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.
> 
> I am going to try to go back and stomach some more of that video.  But only because I'm waiting for my hair dye to set.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.
> 
> Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This was in response to a post about supposed antisemitism in the Labour Party.
> 
> Do try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not supposed.  Everyone knows that the Labour Party in England has too many anti Israel/ anti-Jewish problems.
> 
> And I was answering Susha.  Thank you so much.
Click to expand...

People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."
> 
> Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel.
> 
> We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations.
> 
> Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.
> 
> I am going to try to go back and stomach some more of that video.  But only because I'm waiting for my hair dye to set.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.
> 
> Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This was in response to a post about supposed antisemitism in the Labour Party.
> 
> Do try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not supposed.  Everyone knows that the Labour Party in England has too many anti Israel/ anti-Jewish problems.
> 
> And I was answering Susha.  Thank you so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
Click to expand...


You think so?  Unfounded?

Amazing how every inch of you hates Jews.

People who support Palestine, and you do not even know what that means, 
make false claims of anti semitism.

You are a true belly laugh.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



When is she and all the other powerless Arabs going to revolt against Hamas and all the other Arab groups in power and make them stop the mindless attacks on Israel and work on BUILDING infrastructure and everything else they need out of all of the money which keeps pouring into UNWRA.

What is done with all the building material sent via the crossings, and everything else which is sent via the Israeli and Egyptian crossings.

STOP Hamas from turning that area, freed of all Jews in 2005, into this never ending hell for those who are not part of Hamas and all the other groups which have weapons and power.

FREE GAZA of Hamas, already !!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.



Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When is she and all the other powerless Arabs going to revolt against Hamas and all the other Arab groups in power and make them stop the mindless attacks on Israel and work on BUILDING infrastructure and everything else they need out of all of the money which keeps pouring into UNWRA.
> 
> What is done with all the building material sent via the crossings, and everything else which is sent via the Israeli and Egyptian crossings.
> 
> STOP Hamas from turning that area, freed of all Jews in 2005, into this never ending hell for those who are not part of Hamas and all the other groups which have weapons and power.
> 
> FREE GAZA of Hamas, already !!!!
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okaay.  So, I've only watched about 48 seconds of that video and the speaker states, "We should not boycott Israel because of the debt we owe to the Jewish people."
> 
> Right away this marks this video as propaganda.  The Jewish people are not asking for special consideration because of the Shoah.  That is a false notion and NOT one ever put forth by the Jewish people or Israel.
> 
> We are asking simply to be treated on equal footing to all other ethnic and national groups.  That means you treat us with the SAME brush that you paint all other nations.
> 
> Antisemitism is NOT the rejection of special treatment for Jews.  It is the rejection of double and different standards for Jews.  Learn the difference.
> 
> I am going to try to go back and stomach some more of that video.  But only because I'm waiting for my hair dye to set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.
> 
> Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This was in response to a post about supposed antisemitism in the Labour Party.
> 
> Do try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not supposed.  Everyone knows that the Labour Party in England has too many anti Israel/ anti-Jewish problems.
> 
> And I was answering Susha.  Thank you so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think so?  Unfounded?
> 
> Amazing how every inch of you hates Jews.
> 
> People who support Palestine, and you do not even know what that means,
> make false claims of anti semitism.
> 
> You are a true belly laugh.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, the speaker talks about boycotting or not boycotting Israel, and tin man posts the video on this thread and not the boycott one.
> 
> Is there anything on the video about the Palestinians?  Showing who they are?
> 
> 
> 
> This was in response to a post about supposed antisemitism in the Labour Party.
> 
> Do try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not supposed.  Everyone knows that the Labour Party in England has too many anti Israel/ anti-Jewish problems.
> 
> And I was answering Susha.  Thank you so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think so?  Unfounded?
> 
> Amazing how every inch of you hates Jews.
> 
> People who support Palestine, and you do not even know what that means,
> make false claims of anti semitism.
> 
> You are a true belly laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Take a nap, tin.
You are way overworking today


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.


----------



## Shusha

The request for links is nothing more than a retreat into a dark cave to avoid facing reality.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> The request for links is nothing more than a retreat into a dark cave to avoid facing reality.


Saul Alinsky 13 rules of radicals.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.
Click to expand...

If you say there is, prove it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Politics and Parenting in Palestine: Laila El-Haddad*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you say there is, prove it.
Click to expand...


Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who support Palestine always get that unfounded smear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you say there is, prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"
Click to expand...

IOW, you have nothing.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, unbelievably laughable given the blatant antisemitism found on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you say there is, prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, you have nothing.
Click to expand...


IOW I could link four posts which say, "I hate Jews" from four different posters just from the past two days and you would respond, "that doesn't mean they are anti Semitic".


----------



## Hollie

Politics and parenting in the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you say there is, prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, you have nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IOW I could link four posts which say, "I hate Jews" from four different posters just from the past two days and you would respond, "that doesn't mean they are anti Semitic".
Click to expand...

So post some, or do you have nothing?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


I would love to see Arab Palestinian poems, etc of their love for Palestine before WWI.

Would you have any?


----------



## P F Tinmore

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2017-09/reemaudiodocpodcast.mp3


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your point being that there is no antisemitism on this board?!  FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> If you say there is, prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, you have nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IOW I could link four posts which say, "I hate Jews" from four different posters just from the past two days and you would respond, "that doesn't mean they are anti Semitic".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So post some, or do you have nothing?
Click to expand...


Read both the Why Support Israel and the What Is Zionism threads. 

We've got the whole range on those two threads from, "I hate Jews" to "Jews are of their father the devil" to "Jews control all the money". 

And that is just the blatant stuff.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you say there is, prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, you have nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IOW I could link four posts which say, "I hate Jews" from four different posters just from the past two days and you would respond, "that doesn't mean they are anti Semitic".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So post some, or do you have nothing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read both the Why Support Israel and the What Is Zionism threads.
> 
> We've got the whole range on those two threads from, "I hate Jews" to "Jews are of their father the devil" to "Jews control all the money".
> 
> And that is just the blatant stuff.
Click to expand...

OK, I don't visit those threads.


----------



## GHook93

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


You antisemite are delusional. Very low intelligence,  but delusional. The Israelis haven't even threatened the annihilation of there neighbors and enemies! 

You fuckos have it wrong. The Muslims are the one to destroy the planet. Everywhere Muslims go their is insurgencies, chaos, war and terrorism.

Islam is the threat. The Jews just want peace in their tiny country!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its blatant and obvious to anyone who reads.  It matters not one bit what evidence I bring (witness the "Israel does not exist" thread), you will just deny it and put your fingers in your ears and say, "la la la la la" , or rather "link? link? link? link? link?"
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you have nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IOW I could link four posts which say, "I hate Jews" from four different posters just from the past two days and you would respond, "that doesn't mean they are anti Semitic".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So post some, or do you have nothing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read both the Why Support Israel and the What Is Zionism threads.
> 
> We've got the whole range on those two threads from, "I hate Jews" to "Jews are of their father the devil" to "Jews control all the money".
> 
> And that is just the blatant stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I don't visit those threads.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you should. Perhaps it will give you a better idea of what we have to deal with every day.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 'victory' that changed the Middle East


----------



## Sixties Fan

The mega-weapons ship capture that turned the tide on US-Palestinian ties


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


This is not Palestinian Poetry from before WWI


----------



## Art__Allm

GHook93 said:


> ...



Are you unable to understand what Van Creveld was talking about?

*
Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's The Gun and the Olive Branch(2003) as saying:

We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:

 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' 

I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.

We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[30]


Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
*

How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you unable to understand what Van Creveld was talking about?
> 
> *
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's The Gun and the Olive Branch(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.'
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


For you to repeat those last two sentences only shows how little you know about the Jewish people and of Israel itself.

Those quotes you wrote would depend of when they were said, or why they were said.
Israel, and the USA, and India, and a few other countries would be the last ones to ever use Nuclear weapons.  They are a deterrence against those who have also achieved some Nuclear weapons, or wish to have them, but their intentions are the opposite of what Israel, the USA, India, etc use them, or would ever end up using them for.

Look at how many countries want Nuclear weapons right now, and how many of those have many time threatened Israel with destroying it with Nuclear missiles.

Iran, North Korea.

The first missiles Hamas got a hold of came from North Korea, via Iran.  For what purpose?
It was not for New Year's celebrations, that is for sure.

Know what you are talking about.
Do the proper research for it.

Repeating words said by Israelis, as if the end of the world would actually come from Israel 
is the sign of a simple mind which is fearful of everything under the sun, and looks for the answer to its fears by blaming Israel. 

 Yes, blame the Jews.
Who in the past 1950 years of Christian and Muslim violent takeover of land on the planet have not blamed the Jews and now Israel for anything and everything that goes wrong with them, their country or the planet?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*An interview with Larissa Sansour: In the Future, They Ate from the Finest Porcelain*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Faith, fashion, fusion :: Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cult Child Art Center


----------



## Hollie

It’s what Death Cult memories are made of.


----------



## JoelT1

The term “palestinian” was first coined by the British during the British Mandate and originally applied to Jews. “Palestinian” is a made up, Western term



Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...




Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Prosecutes Journalist for Exposing Its Corruption in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> The term “palestinian” was first coined by the British during the British Mandate and originally applied to Jews. “Palestinian” is a made up, Western term
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Britain called it Palestine because that was its name.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The term “palestinian” was first coined by the British during the British Mandate and originally applied to Jews. “Palestinian” is a made up, Western term
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain called it Palestine because that was its name.
Click to expand...

The name of the region.  Not a country.  Never a country.
Never a country started by Muslims to create a Nation in that area where the Jews had established the Nation of Israel centuries before.

The Mandate of Palestine was set up, along with the other 3 other Mandates post WWI.
3 were to become Muslim countries. Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.
Palestine was to recreate the Jewish Nation/country on Jewish ancient land.

You posted article 7 of the Mandate not caring to recognize what was written before it, and who that Mandate was set up for.

You never care.  Stealing from Jews is like stealing from kids, be it by Christians or Muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You posted article 7 of the Mandate not caring to recognize what was written before it, and who that Mandate was set up for.


The Jewish National Home was Jews getting Palestinian citizenship.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted article 7 of the Mandate not caring to recognize what was written before it, and who that Mandate was set up for.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish National Home was Jews getting Palestinian citizenship.
Click to expand...


Ah, well, then.  The Palestinian national home is where they get Israeli citizenship in the Jewish State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted article 7 of the Mandate not caring to recognize what was written before it, and who that Mandate was set up for.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish National Home was Jews getting Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, well, then.  The Palestinian national home is where they get Israeli citizenship in the Jewish State.
Click to expand...

According the the rules of state succession in international law, all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.

So, why can't they enter their country?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted article 7 of the Mandate not caring to recognize what was written before it, and who that Mandate was set up for.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish National Home was Jews getting Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, well, then.  The Palestinian national home is where they get Israeli citizenship in the Jewish State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According the the rules of state succession in international law, all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.
> 
> So, why can't they enter their country?
Click to expand...


Um.  Because they are foreign settler colonial invaders?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted article 7 of the Mandate not caring to recognize what was written before it, and who that Mandate was set up for.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish National Home was Jews getting Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, well, then.  The Palestinian national home is where they get Israeli citizenship in the Jewish State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According the the rules of state succession in international law, all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.
> 
> So, why can't they enter their country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um.  Because they are foreign settler colonial invaders?
Click to expand...

With citizenship?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Salah-al-Din Brigades of the Popular Resistance Committees held a "celebration" of the 17th anniversary of the beginning of the Second Intifada. (So did many other groups.)

Here are some photos of this celebration of terror that includes kids:

(vide online)

Kids in Gaza celebrating terror. Like every other day. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The term “palestinian” was first coined by the British during the British Mandate and originally applied to Jews. “Palestinian” is a made up, Western term
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain called it Palestine because that was its name.
Click to expand...


Indeed, it was the name for a loosely defined land area not unlike the loosely defined land area here in the Great Satan™ known as the “Bible Belt”.

Indeed, your invented _Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally’land_ was never a country. It’s remarkable that you have been schooled on this dozens of times yet refuse to acknowledge an obvious fact.


----------



## Hollie

The spirit of the _Hitler Youth_ is kept alive in the retrograde reality of the dark place called the Islamic terrorist psyche.





Fatah summer camp glorified terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins

Fatah summer camp glorified terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi

*Fatah summer camp for youth 
glorified terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi,*

*Girls waved flag with terrorist's picture
 during Fatah official's visit*


----------



## Hollie

_What is that smell!_

There’s an acrid, putrid odor about..... I just can’t tell exactly what it is....

Oh yeah. There it is. It’s the smell of the Islamic Death Cult.




*Fatah glorifies this morning’s murderer - PMW Bulletins

Fatah glorifies this morning’s murderer:
“A morning scented with the fragrance of the Martyrs”*

*Terrorist murderer’s family will be rewarded by the PA:*


*6,000 shekels paid immediately *
*2,600 shekels each month for life*
*On its official page, Fatah honored the killer by posting his picture, calling the attack “an operation” and the murderer a “Martyr”:

Posted text: “The one who carried out the operation in Jerusalem (sic., Har Adar) is Martyr (Shahid) Nimr Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jamal.”
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Sept. 26, 2017]

Fatah’s referring to the terrorist murderer as a Shahid (Martyr), is the highest praise that Fatah could give. Defining the terrorist as a “Shahid” means that he “died for Allah.” Fatah is telling Palestinians that murdering Israelis is something that their god, Allah, desires, and for which the “Martyr” will be rewarded in Heaven. 


*


----------



## Hollie

One of the consequences of the Islamic Death Cult is that life tends to be cheap. We saw that dynamic in Gaza’Istan when Hamas was engaged in a bloody civil war with the competing Islamic terrorists representing the Fatah franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc._ 

Hamas eventually won that Islamic terrorist slug-fest through attrition with the end of islamo-hostilities resulting in a pile of dead bodies, many showing signs of torture.

That’s exactly what we see today with Islamics literally slaughtering each other on the thousands across the retrograde Islamic Middle East. Now, unfortunately, the Islamic Death Cult has brought its special kind of hate and retrogression to Europe with the expected results.


*Fatah: Munich Olympic massacre was “excellent operation” - PMW Bulletins


Fatah: Munich Olympic massacre was 
"excellent operation"*

Fatah: "The Munich operation... will continue to be remembered and recorded in history"

45 years after the massacre of the Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, Abbas' Fatah Movement still sees the attack as "*the excellent operation*" and the attackers as "*the heroes of the Munich operation*"


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Leila Khaled’s Antisemitism and Genocidal Wishes Receives Applause In European Parliament


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> WATCH: Leila Khaled’s Antisemitism and Genocidal Wishes Receives Applause In European Parliament


Indeed, Palestinian women can be pretty spicy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Leila Khaled’s Antisemitism and Genocidal Wishes Receives Applause In European Parliament
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestinian women can be pretty spicy.
Click to expand...

Yes, they can murder Jews as easily as their male counterparts to become Martyrs and have their families receive a lifetime salary from the PA.

Aren't they sweet?  Shouldn't all women be like that?  If only all other organizations in the world paid them to kill, maybe, just maybe they would do it.

Alas, it is only the women who are abused, harassed and killed for no reason by the Israeli "occupation" who get the privilege to do that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Leila Khaled’s Antisemitism and Genocidal Wishes Receives Applause In European Parliament
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestinian women can be pretty spicy.
Click to expand...


Indeed. If you define “spicy” in terms of a mental illness.



Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Leila Khaled’s Antisemitism and Genocidal Wishes Receives Applause In European Parliament
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestinian women can be pretty spicy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they can murder Jews as easily as their male counterparts to become Martyrs and have their families receive a lifetime salary from the PA.
> 
> Aren't they sweet?  Shouldn't all women be like that?  If only all other organizations in the world paid them to kill, maybe, just maybe they would do it.
> 
> Alas, it is only the women who are abused, harassed and killed for no reason by the Israeli "occupation" who get the privilege to do that.
Click to expand...

You are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Leila Khaled’s Antisemitism and Genocidal Wishes Receives Applause In European Parliament
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestinian women can be pretty spicy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed. If you define “spicy” in terms of a mental illness.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...

Ooooo. terrorist!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

UNRWA, Bedein explained, paints itself as a humanitarian organization that’s doing good work, but it hides its ties to Hamas and that organization’s terrorist network.

“The people in PR for UNRWA paint themselves as Mother Theresa. They do a good job selling their product, like the cigarette industry,” he said, adding that donor nations are often taken in by the slick propaganda.

At one point, there was widespread acceptance of UNRWA’s claim that it was introducing a Holocaust curriculum in its schools. That never happened, Bedein said, but “very sophisticated guys in the Israeli administration fell for it, as did Jewish organizations.”

And according to Groiss’s report, “The books used in UNRWA’s schools in its various areas of operation often advocate an armed struggle against Israel, which is denied legitimacy as a sovereign state and severely demonized.”

(full article online)

Canada urged to monitor funds sent to UNRWA - The Canadian Jewish News


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

IQ’less in Islamic terrorist’istan.


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



It's actually comical when you YouTube groupies cut and paste these silly YouTube videos claiming "apartheid" when both you and the YouTube'ers don't understand the definition.


----------



## Art__Allm

Sixties Fan said:


> Irael, and the USA, and India, and a few other countries would be the last ones to ever use Nuclear weapons.



What about addressing the facts I have quoted?
USA already used nukes against civilians, and I have quoted a prominent Jewish expert who said in plain English that Israel will destroy the European capitals, if the Zionist regime is doomed.
Official Israel never disavowed this expert.



> *Martin Levi van Creveld* (Hebrew: מרטין ון קרפלד‎‎; born 5 March 1946) is an Israeli military historian and theorist.
> Martin van Creveld - Wikipedia


----------



## Art__Allm

Hollie said:


> Indeed, it was the name for a loosely defined land area not unlike the loosely defined land area ....



Palestine was a real land with real people.
The "Kingdom of David" was just a fairy tale, David was just a warlord of a tiny village.

The Bible Unearthed - Wikipedia
https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Uneart...dp/0684869136#reader_0684869136&tag=ff0d01-20


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Irael, and the USA, and India, and a few other countries would be the last ones to ever use Nuclear weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about addressing the facts I have quoted?
> USA already used nukes against civilians, and I have quoted a prominent Jewish expert who said in plain English that Israel will destroy the European capitals, if the Zionist regime is doomed.
> Official Israel never disavowed this expert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Martin Levi van Creveld* (Hebrew: מרטין ון קרפלד‎‎; born 5 March 1946) is an Israeli military historian and theorist.
> Martin van Creveld - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Art, have you done the research on what Van Creveld may have said?
Did you read David Hirst's book?

Where did you find the idea that Van Cleveld said that Israel meant to destroy the world if it did not get its way?

Please give me the source of where you read it.  Thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually comical when you YouTube groupies cut and paste these silly YouTube videos claiming "apartheid" when both you and the YouTube'ers don't understand the definition.
Click to expand...

I do. You don't.


----------



## Art__Allm

Sixties Fan said:


> Where did you find the idea that Van Cleveld said that Israel meant to destroy the world if it did not get its way?
> 
> Please give me the source of where you read it.  Thanks.



Read my previous posts, you will find the quotes and the links.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you find the idea that Van Cleveld said that Israel meant to destroy the world if it did not get its way?
> 
> Please give me the source of where you read it.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read my previous posts, you will find the quotes and the links.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I do not have the time to peruse all of your posts.  I checked the first few pages of this thread.
It does not answer my questions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you find the idea that Van Cleveld said that Israel meant to destroy the world if it did not get its way?
> 
> Please give me the source of where you read it.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read my previous posts, you will find the quotes and the links.
Click to expand...

Ok, let us go back to your first post on this "Part 2" thread, which is supposed to deal with "Who are the Palestinians", but you are using this title not for the purpose of discussing who are the Palestinians, but to attempt to discuss something which was said by Moshe Dayan, how many years ago, and of which you are scared to death, as you do live in Europe.

This is some of what your first post says:

[Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:

We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:

*'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *

I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.

*We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]


Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia]

Now, we are about 15 years away from what Van Creveld allegedly said.  Since then, we have had
1) a massive immigration of Muslims into Europe
2) an increase of Muslim terrorist attacks in Europe
3) Iran has been somewhat freed to work on Nuclear capabilities, and has threatened Israel and the USA with destroying each of them.
4) North Korea has been firing missiles over Japan, and threatening Israel and the USA with those missiles.
------
First of all, without understanding why anyone in Israel would have said the above, if indeed they did, you seem to be hiding in your panic room and screaming for help.

Here is an article I found showing how sound Van Cleverd's words are,
assuming he ever said them:

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2010/03/12/martin-van-creveld-victim-of-intellectual-fraud/

Read it. Several times.
If you do realize that indeed Frontstorrm or any other anti Israel site is where you got all this panicky idea that Israel has every intention of destroying Europe first, then you do have something to work on.

Ask yourself this question:
1) If Israel was at war with Hamas, PLO and Hezbollah, as it is,  and was dealing with Intifadas and wars from all of them which were killing hundreds of Jews in Israel, why in the world would Israel bother to nuke Europe and not any of its enemies?

So in other words, you take the "Sampson Option" as some others have brought up "Plan Dalet" and try to make omelet out of it.

But what you are truly coming up with, without knowing it, is rotten eggs.

You are attempting to force an "option" as if it was the "first option".

The USA and all other countries have "options" and the USA does have the "nuclear option" as well in case Iran, North Korea or any other country actually attempted to fire a nuclear missile against it.

Does it mean that it is going to fire a Nuclear missile first, or just because?  Of course not.

The USA, Israel, India and many others, have the Nuclear option as a deterrent against those who have many times expressed the desire to obliterate those countries.  Especially in the case of Israel and the USA.

Art, drink some tea.  Have some cumprets or whichever delicatessen you enjoy the most.

Stop worrying, and especially stop accusing Israel of what it has no intention of doing, especially first.

If you are not worried about Iran, North Korea, and a few others instead of Israel, then you truly have some issues to deal with.

No one, in their right mind, is taking your severe panics seriously.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Here is a Muslim threatening Israel with.....what exactly?]

A few points for those who don't follow Hezbollah closely.

When Nasrallah says "settlers" he means all Jews in Israel.

When he says "occupied territories" he means all of Israel.

He is saying that Jews should leave to save their lives in the next war - but strangely he doesn't call for 2 million Arabs to leave. Meaning that either he wants to see them killed or he's blustering.

Since he is so interested in having people go back to their countries of origin, perhaps it is time for Nasrallah - who claims to be a direct descendant of Mohammed through his daughter (that's what Sayyed means) - to return to the areas where Mohammed lived.

Because Mohammed sure never lived in Israel. And the Jews sure did.

[Full article online]

Nasrallah calls for Jews to "return to where they came from." (Maybe he should move to Arabia.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

There you have it. Love isn't the most powerful force on Earth. Neither is gravity or electromagnetism. Not hurricanes or earthquakes. Nor the desire for food or sex or fame. There is no political or ideological or biological or physical force today more powerful than Zionism.

We rock!

Yet somehow Israel still takes up less than 0.004% of the world's surface area. Somehow Israel can't just annex the territories it supposedly controls and expel the Arabs, which people like Najjar know is what Zionism is all about. The most powerful and insidious force on the planet can't do what countless nations have done to far more people in the most barbaric ways without an ounce of guilt.

What is wrong with us Zionists? By now you would have thought we'd have taken over Asia at least, and killed a couple of million Arabs. Especially since we're so immoral and intent on expansionism and colonialism, addicted to destroying other peoples and (probably) poisoning wells and killing prophets and killing gentile children to drink their blood.

Najjar also calls Zionism a "Jewish supremacist ideology that is dismissive of the human rights of non-Jews." This coming from someone whose entire article is dismissive of the human rights of Jews to self-determination.

(full article online)

Palestinian academic: "Zionism is the most insidiously powerful force on the planet" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"One of the hardest things I have ever done is combating anti-black racism in the Arab-American community, challenging my own people on issues around racism, around anti-Semitism.That is my job to do, not your job to do."
---
Really? Because when an Arab American looked into Sarsour last year, it was found that she is indeed a racist herself:

 It turns out Sarsour is known to harbor an ugly racism towards African-Americans which makes her latching onto the BLM movement all the more galling. She rarely associated with or interacted with African-Americans (this explains why she views African-Americans through the prism of racist, media stereotypes) until the “activist” with political aspirations realized it can be to her benefit. Sarsour’s racism which she is now trying to hide is common knowledge among the Arab-American community in NY.

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour claims she fights Arab antisemitism and racism. Really? When?? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[If only the Arabs would stop teaching hatred in their schools]

Fatah presents arch-terrorist Abu Jihad 
and planner of Munich Olympics massacre Salah Khalaf 
as role models for youth






Faces from left to right: Yasser Arafat, Abu Jihad, and Salah Khalaf.
[Facebook page of the Dar Salah High School for Girls in the Bethlehem District, Sept., 17. 2017]

Cover of free diary distributed by Fatah's youth movement Shabiba to high school students shows photos of Abu Jihad who was responsible for murder of 125 Israelis and Salah Khalaf, head of Black September and planner of murders of 11 Israeli athletes in Munich Olympics in 1972

(full article online)

Fatah’s educational message to youth - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [If only the Arabs would stop teaching hatred in their schools]
> 
> Fatah presents arch-terrorist Abu Jihad
> and planner of Munich Olympics massacre Salah Khalaf
> as role models for youth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faces from left to right: Yasser Arafat, Abu Jihad, and Salah Khalaf.
> [Facebook page of the Dar Salah High School for Girls in the Bethlehem District, Sept., 17. 2017]
> 
> Cover of free diary distributed by Fatah's youth movement Shabiba to high school students shows photos of Abu Jihad who was responsible for murder of 125 Israelis and Salah Khalaf, head of Black September and planner of murders of 11 Israeli athletes in Munich Olympics in 1972
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah’s educational message to youth - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [If only the Arabs would stop teaching hatred in their schools]
> 
> Fatah presents arch-terrorist Abu Jihad
> and planner of Munich Olympics massacre Salah Khalaf
> as role models for youth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faces from left to right: Yasser Arafat, Abu Jihad, and Salah Khalaf.
> [Facebook page of the Dar Salah High School for Girls in the Bethlehem District, Sept., 17. 2017]
> 
> Cover of free diary distributed by Fatah's youth movement Shabiba to high school students shows photos of Abu Jihad who was responsible for murder of 125 Israelis and Salah Khalaf, head of Black September and planner of murders of 11 Israeli athletes in Munich Olympics in 1972
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah’s educational message to youth - PMW Bulletins
Click to expand...


Teaching life skills in the Death Cult.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA money that has been coming to the Awads (and will continue to the end of their days unless the PA expires first - tax-free) puts them well above the earnings level of ordinary Palestinian Arabsand even of senior members of the Palestinian Authority's civil service. That's of course, deliberate. The more Israelis the prisoner kills, and the longer the prison sentence he or she gets, the higher the monthly payment that reaches him/her and the family.  

It's an image that the relative few - we among them - who pay attention to the human price of catastrophic releases of unrepentant terrorists need to keep in our minds. It's not just that Palestinian Arab society puts shooters like the Awads on a pedestal. It's that *foreign aid*, provided by _unwitting taxpayers in European, American and other Western countries_ whose governments pretend goes to improve the lives of ordinary Palestinian Arabs, is the indispensable fuel for the Abbas' regime's unspeakable and well-lubricated ["*25-Jul-17: The scale of the PA's terror-funding scheme keeps growing*"] incitement and encouragement of the murder of Jews. And as payment schemes go, it's been proven to get relatively law-abiding Palestinian Arabs to consider killing one of their Israeli neighbours for the sake of their families ["*11-Jul-17: Incitement to terror: Sometimes it really is all about the money*"]

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 03-Oct-17: Released in Shalit Deal, a pious Pal Arab murderer is going back (too late) to life in an Israeli prison


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Vivien Sansour*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

The king pushed for that appointment for his cousin. Why? What for? To advance the rights of Jordanian women? To supervise the king's treatment of Jordan's Palestinian Arab majority? To check on what happens to the international aid sent for the Syrian refugees in Jordan as it makes its tortuous way to those tent-dwelling unfortunates?

Of course not. The king pushed for his relative's appointment for one reason alone - to malign Israel and to destroy its name and reputation by means of damning reports issued by this relative, all intended to force Israel to establish another Palestinian Arab terror state in Judea and Samaria whose capital is in eastern Jerusalem. This way, the king and his extended family, including Mr. Zaid ben Raad himself, will be able to  continue to rule over the millions of Palestinians living in the artificial country named "The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan" instead of granting the Palestinians a state in northwest Jordan where, as it happens, they constitute the majority of residents. 

(full article online)

Another Jordanian knife in Israel's back


----------



## Sixties Fan

Women's March co-organizer Linda Sarsour encouraged those at a social justice rally in New York City Sunday to be ready to "put their lives on the line" for "the movement," according to footage of her speech seen by the Washington Free Beacon.

"I am willing to die for black people, for indigenous people. I am willing to die for Muslim people, I am willing to die for the most marginalized people in this country. I am not afraid. The question is, are you ready to do that?" chanted Sarsour at the March for Racial Justice.
----
Sarah Friedson, a hip hop instructor and long time pro-Israel advocate, said Sarsour is "the biggest hypocrite of them all."

"She wants to preach about ‘shoving issues,' but meanwhile, the second she gets up on that stage she starts about Palestinians and Zionists. She can think it's related all she wants, but it's not," said Friedson. "She believes Zionism is racism against Palestinians, but that's utterly ridiculous."

Misha Vilenchuk—chairman of the budding American Union of Jewish Students, a pilot program modeled on national, democratic student organizations outside of North America—said that Sarsour was "distracting" from successful efforts by his group and others to get young Jews to stand up against racism.

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour Tells Social Justice Rally Goers to Be Ready to ‘Put Their Lives on the Line’


----------



## Hollie

The linked article explains in detail how these monsters believe they are appeasing their bloodthirsty Cult by destroying themselves.



*Faces of arch terrorists adorn Fatah school diary - PMW Bulletins

Faces of arch terrorists adorn Fatah school diary*

*Fatah presents arch-terrorist Abu Jihad 
and planner of Munich Olympics massacre Salah Khalaf 
as role models for youth*


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Post 1993 signing of the Oslo Accords, the PA was to stop all incitements against Jews and Israel and prepare their people for peace and living along side with Israel.  This is an example of what they chose to do instead]

​
















Jews are “wicked,” “oppressors,” and “evil” in rebroadcast of 1996 PA TV show - PMW Bulletins

(full article online)


----------



## Sixties Fan

The "reconciliation" accord they reached in Cairo paves the way for creating a state within a state in the Gaza Strip. The Egyptian-sponsored deal does not require Hamas to dismantle its security forces and armed wing, Ezaddin Al-Qassam. Nor does the agreement require Hamas to lay down its weapons or stop amassing weapons and preparing for war.


This is a very comfortable situation for Hamas, which has effectively been absolved of any responsibility toward the civilian population. Hamas could not have hoped for a better deal. Like Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in the Gaza Strip will be permitted to maintain its own security force, while Abbas's government oversees civilian affairs and pays salaries to civil servants.


Offloading this responsibility frees up Hamas to fortify its military capabilities. Hamas is not being asked to recognize Israel's right to exist or accept any peace process.
(full article online)

Palestinians: A State Within a State?


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore

*Reformers and Rebels: Exclusive conversation with Hanan Ashrawi*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

The asymmetry of the Israel-Palestinian conflict – Israel Hayom


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

I don’t think so. While there are plenty of Palestinian advocates who are trying to find ways to bring about peace and fight for their cause while respecting Jewish sovereignty, I have not seen evidence of Sarsour attempting or succeeding at her self-assigned task of “challenging my own people around issues of anti-Semitism.”

I have seen the opposite. Sarsour has explicitly diminished the significance of anti-Semitism, qualifying its noxiousness in a video for Jewish Voice for Peace in April. “I want to make the distinction that while anti-Semitism is something that impacts Jewish Americans, it’s different than anti-black racism or Islamophobia because it’s not systemic,” she said. “Of course, you may experience vandalism or an attack on a synagogue, or maybe on an individual level, but it’s not systemic, and we need to make that distinction.”

Read more: Practice What You Preach, Linda Sarsour


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli Avihai Shorshan decided to visit Ramallah, and took this photo outside of their municipality building.





He writes (translated into English from Hebrew):

I made a short visit to Ramallah and the surrounding area.

When I have time, I will write about it at length, but in the meantime this picture taken outside the town hall of al-Bireh, from my perspective says it all.

In Ramallah no one is interested in Yitzhar, Ma’aleh Adumim, Ariel or the Nativ Ha’avot. Their vision is to return to their homes in Jaffa, Lod, Acre, the Baka neighborhood of Jerusalem, Be’er Sheva and other places they lost when they did not agree to the Partition Plan in 1948.

They understand it well and are aiming for there with all their might, nothing else will satisfy them. I wish that the Israeli public would understand this declaration of intentions seriously and grasp it.

(full article online)

The PA’s Monumental Declaration of Intent


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Online portal offers Palestinian diaspora a piece of home*


GAZA CITY — In Palestinian tradition, when people in the countryside visited each other, they brought along gifts arranged in traditional baskets that also contained a sachet of henna and flowers. The gift was called "talleh," and it inspired a Palestinian entrepreneur, Asmahan Ilian, to develop a successful business to help Palestinian women by providing them employment. Hence Talleh, an online gift platform, is this month one year old.

“The idea for the project was inspired by the longing of Palestinians abroad for something reminiscent of their homeland,” Ilian told Al-Monitor by phone from Jerusalem, where she lives. “I also wanted to use the Palestinian tradition of gift giving.”

Talleh's offerings focus on traditional gifts. Among them are small decorative wooden boxes for holding such items as cigarettes and jewelry, ceramic pots with Middle Eastern motifs and home accessories, such as tablecloths, towels and trays, all handcrafted from local cotton and wood, especially olive wood. Most of the fabrics carry traditional Palestinian designs.

“Thanks to the project, you can get a talleh wherever you are,” she said. “Not all Palestinians abroad can visit their homeland but Talleh can send them traditional gifts to ease their homesickness and nostalgia.”

Read more: Online portal offers Palestinian diaspora a piece of home


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cults life skills training.


----------



## Hollie

Training the Hitler Youth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


*Dumbfuck of the month.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

[Palestinians, destroying their "ancient history" ] 


Much of the 4,500-year-old Bronze Age city known as Tel Es-Sakan is being bulldozed to make way for construction projects and military bases

(full article online)

In Gaza, Hamas levels an ancient Canaanite archaeological treasure


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult music therapy


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion show.

Muhammedans in fashionable Ski Masks


----------



## P F Tinmore

PHOTO: Young Palestinian men smile during banana harvest season in Jericho, circa 1930.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

East Jerusalem Village Head: We Want to be Under Israel, Not PA

(full article online)

MUST WATCH: Palestinian Leader in East Jerusalem: “We Want to be Under Israel, Not the PA”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-terrorist “Arab Idol” singer tours Canada


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Just like what upset the Arabs in 1920-1921 riots.  Jews doing what Jews do. Jews in the "West Bank" = settlers.  Jews in Israel = settlers.  Jews on any Muslim conquered land = invaders ]

This prompted Palestinian media to recoil in horror that Friedman was performing "Talmudic rituals" with "thousands of settlers" at the "western wall of Al Aqsa Mosque."

(ful article online)

Palestinians upset that Ambassador Friedman "performed Talmudic rituals" at Kotel today ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> PHOTO: Young Palestinian men smile during banana harvest season in Jericho, circa 1930.


Except that they would not have caught themselves even dead calling themselves "Palestinians".  Many called themselves Syrians.  They wanted to be part of Greater Syria post Ottoman Empire.


----------



## Sixties Fan

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: “Occupation” has become an all-purpose Palestinian tool. On the one hand, the Palestinians claim the Israeli “occupation” makes serious negotiations with Israel impossible. On the other, they claim the “occupation” makes the development of local institutions and civil society impossible. Western and Israeli diplomats have largely avoided criticism of this strategy, possibly because it has become a central tenet of Palestinian identity. 
--------------
A consistent Palestinian strategy for seeking statehood while blaming Israel for its absence has been codified through the narrative of “occupation.” The anniversary of the 1967 war brought this to the forefront in endless accusations regarding the Israeli “occupation” of the West Bank. There is even an assertion that Gaza is still “occupied.” 

Occupation is a Palestinian tool to avoid negotiations, since “no tactical brilliance in negotiations, no amount of expert preparation, no perfect alignment of the stars can overcome that obstacle.” Nor is progress in Palestinian economics, institution-building, or civil society possible, because –  as Nabeel Kassis, Palestinian Minister for Finance, put it – “Development under occupation is a charade.” Even the Palestinian Authority’s own repression and crackdown on freedom of the press is, according to Hanan Ashrawi, caused “of course [by] the Israeli occupation.” And despite the palpable underdevelopment of Palestinian institutions and civil society, Europe must keep funding them, since “Preparedness for several possible scenarios with a long-term focus on functioning institutions is what is required from the EU and other donors in Palestine.”

(full article online)

How Palestine “Occupies” Itself


----------



## Sixties Fan

As readers may recall, the BBC did not report al Arouri’s claim of Hamas responsibility for the kidnappings and murders of the three Israeli teenagers in 2014 or his designation by the US Treasury in 2015. Neither did it inform audiences of al Arouri’s forced relocation from Turkey to Qatar and subsequently to Beirut or of his visit to Tehran in August.

Similarly, BBC audiences have yet to see any coverage of al Arouri’s appointment to the second most important position in the Hamas terror organisation.  

(full article online)

BBC ignores appointment of new Hamas deputy chief


----------



## Sixties Fan

The complaint was submitted in collaboration with the Jewish community of Ibiza, Spain. It details how Khaled used her position in the PFLP to “trivialize the Holocaust, compare Israel to Nazi Germany and advocate for indiscriminate violence against civilians,” the group said in a statement. Additionally, The Lawfare Project has applied for a European warrant for the arrest of Khaled and for her inclusion in the European Union (EU) and Interpol criminal databases.

Khaled, 73, hijacked a civilian American airplane in 1969 and forced it to land in Damascus, Syria, handing two Israeli civilians to Syrian authorities. Syria held the Israelis in custody for three months before trading them for Syrian prisoners of war held by Israel.

A year later, she was arrested by Israeli security officials while in possession of two hand grenades ahead of an attempt to hijack an El Al flight from Amsterdam to Tel Aviv.

(full article online)

Organization Files Terrorism Charges with Spanish Court Against Palestinian Hijacker


----------



## Sixties Fan

Normalizing Muslims in the minds of the masses is on the agenda of social justice warriors.

Tommy Robinson does a great job breaking down how “normal” people who have been thrown our way in order to show us what truly peaceful Muslims are really like.

In truth, these are people who support terrorist groups – in England and Israel.

Not only are these Muslims nothing even close to moderates – the presenter of the show himself is also no moderate either.

Sometimes the stereotypes that we have are well-deserved.

(vide video online)

Tommy Robinson: Channel 4's "Moderate" Muslims


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since a Palestinian terrorist murdered 3 Israelis last month, Fatah, which is headed by Mahmoud Abbas, has repeatedly emphasized his status as hero. Palestinian Media Watch reported that only a few hours after the murders, Fatah celebrated the morning scented with the fragrance of the Martyrs.

Subsequently, Fatah has issued and distributed a poster glorifying murderer Nimr Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jamal who shot and murdered an Israeli border police officer and two security guards and wounded another Israeli at the entrance to Har Adar, northwest of Jerusalem, on Sept. 26, 2017.

In a PA TV News broadcast, the murderer's children and others were seen holding the Fatah issued poster which displays a large picture of terrorist murderer Nimr Al-Jamal, together with pictures Mahmoud Abbas and Yasser Arafat, with the text:

"With all honor and pride,
The Fatah Movement, Jerusalem district, Beit Surik branch, mourns the death of its heroic Martyr Nimr Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jamal."
[Official PA TV News, Sept. 29, 2017

(full article online)

Fatah glorifies murderer of 3 Israelis - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Youssef, who styles himself as a human rights activist, called the Supreme Court decision "ridiculous," adding how ironic it was that Israel allowed Jews to "break into the sanctities of others and desecrate the Al-Aqsa Mosque continuously" while pretending to care about the holiness of the site by banning soccer.

Youssef heads a previously unheard-of NGO, the  "Integrity Foundation for Humanitarian and Human Rights (Hayat Haq)". Before that he headed a similarly sketchy organization called the International Public Foundation to Aid Gaza which seems to have done nothing to actually help anyone in Gaza.

Essam Youssef is not the first Palestinian to try to grab headlines by characterizing himself as a human rights leader when in fact he is using a fake interest in human rights as a way to enrich himself. NGOs are a big business in the territories.

(full article online)

Palestinians say Muslim soccer on the Temple Mount is a "human right" - as is no Jews there ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Thousands of Israeli, Palestinian women march for peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

[National Liberation = putting an end to Israel and connecting all parts as Muslim parts, because Gaza was ok from 1948 to 1967 but is no more since Muslims lost it to Israel.  And getting Jews out of it is not enough.  We are still "occupied".  All of Palestine must be returned to Muslim hands, ALL Muslim hands]

“I won’t accept the reproduction of the Hezbollah experience in Lebanon” in Gaza, Abbas said in an interview late last Monday with the Egyptian news station CBC.

On Saturday, Hamas spokesperson and political bureau member Hasam Bardan pushed back against Abbas’s comparison.

“It is not logical to compare any regional situation to the Palestinian situation, neither the case of Hezbollah nor anyone else. We are a people living under occupation,” Bardan told the Palestinian daily Al-Quds in an interview.

(full article online)

Hamas rebuffs comparison by Abbas to Hezbollah terror group


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Can one imagine if all prisoners in all conflicts got paid a salary while still in prison?  Only Palestinians can come up with this.
First, forever refugees (or until Israel is destroyed).  Now this ! 
Oh, yes, and Jerusalem is their "eternal" Capital.]

According to the official PA news agency Wafa, Fatah leader and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas said at the meeting that Jerusalem was "the eternal capital of the state of Palestine."

He praised the 'victory' of the Arab residents of Jerusalem for the "tyranny of the occupation" after the thwarting of the installation of metal detectors at the entrance to the Temple Mount.

Abbas stated that there was an inherent danger in the Balfour Declaration, which was issued 100 years ago, and stressed the importance of calling for Britain to apologize for the "historic injustice" caused to the Palestinian Arabs by the declaration, as well as for the cancellation of all events marking the anniversary of the declaration.

(full article online)

Abbas says 'no' to Trump


----------



## Sixties Fan

[if you repeat a lie long enough.....]

The play is based on an event that took place between April 2 and May 10, 2002, during which 39 armed terrorists barricaded themselves in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, taking 46 monks and 200 civilians, including children, hostage. The terrorists booby-trapped the holy site and threatened to blow it up and kill the hostages. At the end of long negotiations, 13 of the terrorists were deported abroad, the rest were expelled to the Gaza Strip, and Israeli military sappers defused the explosives that threatened one of Christianity's holiest sites.

But the playbill seems to have twisted the facts in favor of a clear anti-Israeli agenda.

(full article online)

Anti-Israel play about terrorists twists facts, sparks outrage – Israel Hayom


----------



## Sixties Fan

I have finished reading The Anti-Israel Agenda, Inside the Political War on the Jewish State, edited by Alex Ryvchin

A book review is forthcoming, but I wanted to look up something that Seth Frantzman, op-ed editor at the Jerusalem Post,  wrote in his chapter on media bias.

 An essay by James Estrin in the Times in 2014 claimed to show a Palestinian girl throwing a javelin at Al Quds University with the Israeli security barrier in the background. This writer happens to teach at Al Quds University and in four years there has never seen javelin practice conducted in the area in which the photo was taken. The photographer created a perfect political backdrop to suggest that Palestinians cannot practice javelin except under the shadow of an Israeli wall.

Here is the article and the photo:

(vide photos online)

Some 2014 Pallywood scenes of Al Quds University sports practice ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The murderer, interviewed by the ever-eager media (take a bow *Associated Press* and *Al Jazeera*) has lately been responding to their questions by saying she's _innocent_, she did _nothing wrong_, she's _shocked _that the American authorities, the Department of Justice, the FBI are going after her "_for no obvious reasons_". Those are all direct quotes.

There's an unusually large body of readily-accessible video material in which Ahlam Tamimi, the psychopathic Hamas jihadist, boasts of the murders she executed, reinforcing again and again that she has no regrets and why should she.

Here are some screen shots from just one: it's available via YouTube [*here*] for anyone wanting to see the whole clip.

(full article and photos online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 08-Oct-17: Why kill religious Jewish children? Because, says Hamas celebrity-jihadist, this is a religious struggle


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Arab Idol Mohammed Assaf interviewed in London*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab idols - The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nora Arsenian-Carmi*


----------



## Sixties Fan

An Arab Muslim Zionist??? You do not hear those 3 words together very often.

Yahya Mahamed grew up in the 3rd largest Arab city in Israel. He wants to share the truth about Israel, despite what he grew up learning about the Jewish state. 

This guy may not be representative of a silent majority. But, he does say it like it is.

In 2002, something happened and he changed his mind.

Arab-Israeli StandWithUs Educator Yahya speaks out at WITS University in South Africa


----------



## Sixties Fan

Naturally, the "moderate" Fatah movement headed by Mahmoud Abbas is on the side of the terrorist, not the US.

(full article online)

Islamic Jihad leader on FBI Most Wanted Terrorist list - Fatah members support him ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Expo draws thousands in London despite smear campaign*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*

*Scrap the so-called terrorist list*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*
> 
> *Scrap the so-called terrorist list*
> 
> **




How ironic. Israel IS the liberation movement (a successful one) of the Jewish people.  And the international community has managed to criminalize the presence of Jews.  Just being in a place has become a crime, if your Jewish.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*
> 
> *Scrap the so-called terrorist list*
> 
> **



I watched the first six minutes.  Its an inversion of the truth and the standard demonizing of Jews and Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mustafa Barghouthi: The Issue of Palestine is the Mother of All Middle East Conflicts*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mustafa Barghouthi: The Issue of Palestine is the Mother of All Middle East Conflicts*
> 
> **



"The mother of all nonsensical banter"

How strange that the past and current history of Moslems slaughtering each other wholesale has such little relevance for Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

Another PMW success as Belgium freezes funding of PA schools  - PMW Bulletins

*Another PMW success 
as Belgium freezes funding of PA schools* 

*Two weeks ago PMW exposed and notified the Belgium government that a Palestinian school it had funded was renamed after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
*In response to PMW’s report the Belgium Foreign Ministry’s spokesman has now announced:*

“*Belgium will put on hold any projects related to the construction or equipment of Palestinian schools”*
*“The Belgian government was unaware of this name change”*
*“Belgium ‘unequivocally condemns the glorification of terrorist attacks,’ and ‘will not allow itself to be associated with the names of terrorists in any way.’” [The Algemeiner, Oct. 7, 2017]*


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult rolls on.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar Barghouti on BDS: The South African Moment for the Palestinian Struggle*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on Palestinian Academic Freedom.*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cultists on Islamic terrorist freedom to teach hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rana Burqan - Global Study Awards winner from Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism. The gift that keeps the Hitler Youth flourishing.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

My trip to the Islamist hell hole.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

[Tell a lie enough times.......]

Most of these incidents never happened, of course. The monks were hostages. The church was desecrated. Nuns took care of the wounded, not the terrorists. They never killed four Israeli soldiers. The idea that no one in Bethlehem could go to the hospital for weeks is ludicrous. The story of the mother being forced to speak at gunpoint is fiction.

To have such a play glorifying terror to be performed at NYU is outrageous.

(full article online)

Scene-by-scene description of anti-Israel play, The Siege, at NYU theatre ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Irene Calis*

Emancipated Palestinian Futures? Hard Lessons from the South African Dream Deferred


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Let the Palestinians return home.

Problem solved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let the Palestinians return home.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...


Their countries of origin won't take them.

Big problem.

Aside from that, the Arabs-Moslems exploiting the UNRWA welfare fraud aren't going to let go of that perceived entitlement.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

*They do not, properly speaking, form a nation. There is among them neither coherency nor spirit of patriotism. *Just as the wild Bedaween are divided into distinct and generally hostile tribes, so the peasantry (Fellahheen) are divided into clans governed by their respective sheikhs. They speak a common, language, they possess a common religion; their manners and customs are generally the same all over the country. Yet of national unity there is absolutely none.They never combine for any purpose excepting when occasionally some clans aid each other in their faction fights. They are all classed, it is true, under the two great divisions of Yemeny and Kais, wearing white or red as the badge of these parties; but even then *there is nothing among them approaching to the co-operation of patriots as a nation,* ready and willing to join hand in hand for the mother country. The Turkish government well understand this important fact and take it into practical account in. their method of ruling the land. This state of things is in itself enough to explain in great measure the backward condition of the people at large. *They have no national life. Every district lives in and for itself, and wages its own petty wars with its neighbours, but has neither interests nor action in common with any other.*

(full article online)

1872 researcher says explicitly that Palestine Arabs had no national character ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Welfare: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.
_Websters Online_

The Palestinian Authority's current "Pay for Slay" program to reward Palestinian terrorists for murdering Jews can be traced back as far as 1964, when Nobel Prize-winning terrorist Yasser Arafat first initiated the idea:



(full article online)

Palestinian Terrorists Get The Best "Welfare Plan" Western Money Can Buy (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Sixties Fan said:


> *They do not, properly speaking, form a nation. There is among them neither coherency nor spirit of patriotism. *Just as the wild Bedaween are divided into distinct and generally hostile tribes, so the peasantry (Fellahheen) are divided into clans governed by their respective sheikhs. They speak a common, language, they possess a common religion; their manners and customs are generally the same all over the country. Yet of national unity there is absolutely none.They never combine for any purpose excepting when occasionally some clans aid each other in their faction fights. They are all classed, it is true, under the two great divisions of Yemeny and Kais, wearing white or red as the badge of these parties; but even then *there is nothing among them approaching to the co-operation of patriots as a nation,* ready and willing to join hand in hand for the mother country. The Turkish government well understand this important fact and take it into practical account in. their method of ruling the land. This state of things is in itself enough to explain in great measure the backward condition of the people at large. *They have no national life. Every district lives in and for itself, and wages its own petty wars with its neighbours, but has neither interests nor action in common with any other.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 1872 researcher says explicitly that Palestine Arabs had no national character ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



 .....and little had changed by the 1920s-40s when the Al Husayni and Nashashibi clans were at odds with each other.

 Needless to say, had the Nashibi rather than the al Husayni clan won out in the end, the world would be a vastly more peaceful place today.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Here are the people who won't negotiate for peace, won't put their weapons down, because ALL of the Mandate for Palestine is MUSLIM land, and must be returned to Muslims. Here is the party Abbas is President of.  The "Moderate" one willing to make peace with Israel ]

*Fatah: "From the sea of the blood of the Martyrs 
we will create the State of Palestine"*

Fatah: Dying for Allah “will create the State of Palestine” - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [Here are the people who won't negotiate for peace, won't put their weapons down, because ALL of the Mandate for Palestine is MUSLIM land, and must be returned to Muslims. Here is the party Abbas is President of.  The "Moderate" one willing to make peace with Israel ]
> 
> *Fatah: "From the sea of the blood of the Martyrs
> we will create the State of Palestine"*
> 
> Fatah: Dying for Allah “will create the State of Palestine” - PMW Bulletins


So, when will Israel lay down its arm for peace?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek*

*CAIR-NY Rep on Al Jazeera to Discuss Ruling That No-Fly List is Unconstitutional*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Here are the people who won't negotiate for peace, won't put their weapons down, because ALL of the Mandate for Palestine is MUSLIM land, and must be returned to Muslims. Here is the party Abbas is President of.  The "Moderate" one willing to make peace with Israel ]
> 
> *Fatah: "From the sea of the blood of the Martyrs
> we will create the State of Palestine"*
> 
> Fatah: Dying for Allah “will create the State of Palestine” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> So, when will Israel lay down its arm for peace?
Click to expand...

You know exactly what would have happened from 1936-1939 if Jews did not start to arm themselves.  They would be all dead from the endless incitement by Al Husseini.

You know exactly what would have happened in 1948 if the Jews and others in Israel had not been armed to fight the 5 Arab armies invasion into their new country. They would all be dead.

You know exactly what would have happened in 1967, in 1973 if Israel had not been armed to defend itself again from Arab invasion.  They would all be dead.

You know exactly what would happen if Israel had given in after the 1st and 2nd Intifada to the endless attacks by the Arabs.  All Jews would be dead.

You know exactly that All extremist Arab Muslim want the end of Israel and the Jews to either leave or be again nothing but dhimmis to the Muslims as Jews were for 1300 years before that.

So, when is Israel laying down its weapons for peace?

When the Arabs come to the table and really want peace and really want to finally create a Palestine State BUT NOT on the back of Israel, or with Israel SIX FEET UNDER.
------------
What a Christian you are.  You are for hatred and not for love.  For war and not peace.
For Jews always giving in and never having rights.

Gratefully not all Christians are like you and many respect the Jewish people for the Human beings they are.  Whereas You do not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You know exactly what would have happened from 1936-1939 if Jews did not start to arm themselves.


Indeed, they would have to set their settler colonial project aside.

Settler colonialism, by its nature, is aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> What a Christian you are. You are for hatred and not for love.


Not so. It just bothers me greatly that Israel is destroying the holy land.

Unlike the fake Christians in the US who support this destruction.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know exactly what would have happened from 1936-1939 if Jews did not start to arm themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they would have to set their settler colonial project aside.
> 
> Settler colonialism, by its nature, is aggression.
Click to expand...

The Jews cannot and will not set aside their rights over their own ancient land.
Especially to people who's Koran instructs them not only mistreat Jews, but to kill them wherever they are.

Either Hamas and Fatah can come to the table and make peace and renounce any more aggressions against Jews in Israel and everywhere else in the world, or they are going to continue to experience the shortcoming of declaring war on Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a Christian you are. You are for hatred and not for love.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. It just bothers me greatly that Israel is destroying the holy land.
> 
> Unlike the fake Christians in the US who support this destruction.
Click to expand...

You are a laugh a second.

Who has been destroying antiquities in the Holy Land?
According to you, not the Arabs who just destroyed some in Gaza.

You are a total hoot!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hold on - there is a luxury car dealership in the most oppressed region on Earth?

You mean that normal Palestinians don't look like this:






...but like this?





Does Breaking the Silence include this on their tours of the West Bank where they show the searing oppression of Israeli "occupation"?

(full article online)

Oppression: The Land Rover Experience in "Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/isr...s-into-sukkah-mobile-in-jerusalem/2017/10/10/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hold on - there is a luxury car dealership in the most oppressed region on Earth?
> 
> You mean that normal Palestinians don't look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Breaking the Silence include this on their tours of the West Bank where they show the searing oppression of Israeli "occupation"?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Oppression: The Land Rover Experience in "Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Actually both. Palestine, like everywhere else, has a wide spectrum of wealth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a Christian you are. You are for hatred and not for love.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. It just bothers me greatly that Israel is destroying the holy land.
> 
> Unlike the fake Christians in the US who support this destruction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a laugh a second.
> 
> Who has been destroying antiquities in the Holy Land?
> According to you, not the Arabs who just destroyed some in Gaza.
> 
> You are a total hoot!!!
Click to expand...

Actually I was talking about Israel bulldozing Christian homes and farmland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know exactly what would have happened from 1936-1939 if Jews did not start to arm themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they would have to set their settler colonial project aside.
> 
> Settler colonialism, by its nature, is aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews cannot and will not set aside their rights over their own ancient land.
> Especially to people who's Koran instructs them not only mistreat Jews, but to kill them wherever they are.
> 
> Either Hamas and Fatah can come to the table and make peace and renounce any more aggressions against Jews in Israel and everywhere else in the world, or they are going to continue to experience the shortcoming of declaring war on Israel.
Click to expand...

Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on - there is a luxury car dealership in the most oppressed region on Earth?
> 
> You mean that normal Palestinians don't look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Breaking the Silence include this on their tours of the West Bank where they show the searing oppression of Israeli "occupation"?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Oppression: The Land Rover Experience in "Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Actually both. Palestine, like everywhere else, has a wide spectrum of wealth.
Click to expand...


It's really quite remarkable that Western donors have continued to finance an islamic terrorist pyramid scheme that has brought incredible wealth to a relatively few islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know exactly what would have happened from 1936-1939 if Jews did not start to arm themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they would have to set their settler colonial project aside.
> 
> Settler colonialism, by its nature, is aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews cannot and will not set aside their rights over their own ancient land.
> Especially to people who's Koran instructs them not only mistreat Jews, but to kill them wherever they are.
> 
> Either Hamas and Fatah can come to the table and make peace and renounce any more aggressions against Jews in Israel and everywhere else in the world, or they are going to continue to experience the shortcoming of declaring war on Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
Click to expand...


Indeed, settler colonialism defines the history of Arab-islamist conquests across the Middle East and North Africa.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.


Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on - there is a luxury car dealership in the most oppressed region on Earth?
> 
> You mean that normal Palestinians don't look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Breaking the Silence include this on their tours of the West Bank where they show the searing oppression of Israeli "occupation"?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Oppression: The Land Rover Experience in "Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Actually both. Palestine, like everywhere else, has a wide spectrum of wealth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's really quite remarkable that Western donors have continued to finance an islamic terrorist pyramid scheme that has brought incredible wealth to a relatively few islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

Look at the Ramallah bubble where the oligarchs live.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Indeed, settler colonialism defines the history of Arab-islamist conquests across the Middle East and North Africa.



Its an aggression which has been going on for 1400 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?
Click to expand...

Do you mean like the Indians in the US?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like the Indians in the US?
Click to expand...


Sure.  That is one example.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like the Indians in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.  That is one example.
Click to expand...

Is that peace or prison?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like the Indians in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.  That is one example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that peace or prison?
Click to expand...


We’re still left to examine why some societies / cultures can adapt and thrive while others cannot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like the Indians in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.  That is one example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that peace or prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We’re still left to examine why some societies / cultures can adapt and thrive while others cannot.
Click to expand...


Next question?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Jewish return to their ancestral homeland was settler colonialism (and its NOT), many nations which have been affected by settler colonialism have ceased the violence and made some sort of peace.  Why won't Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like the Indians in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.  That is one example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that peace or prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We’re still left to examine why some societies / cultures can adapt and thrive while others cannot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Next question?
Click to expand...


Next question: 

Do you believe you’re taken as anything but a buffoon for a cut and paste YouTube video produced by the Iranian PressTV?


----------



## JoelT1

Palestine was just a Roman name for ancient Israel and the word referred to Philistines, who were Greek.

So, who are the palestinians?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.



Utter nonsense.
Arab aggression towards Palestinian Jews existed long before Zionism.

Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:

_"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
*On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages  joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_

Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where would You run now, need a safe space?


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is the initial aggression that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Utter nonsense.
> Arab aggression towards Palestinian Jews existed long before Zionism.
> 
> Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:
> 
> _"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
> *On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages  joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
> The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_
> 
> Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Where would You run now, need a safe space?
Click to expand...


Ancient Israel dates back 3000+ years and the State of Israel is almost three quarters of a century old. #DealWithIt


----------



## Hollie

Aww. The Death Cultists are so cute when they launch these recruitment drives for vacant minded islamo-bots 



Fatah: Dying for Allah “will create the State of Palestine” - PMW Bulletins

In a post on Facebook, Abbas' Fatah Movement encourages Palestinians to die for Allah. It is Palestinians dying for Allah, the spilling of "the blood of the Martyrs," Fatah says, that *"will create the State of Palestine."*

Fatah posted the following text together with a collage of photos of terrorists:

*"#Palestine"*
*"From the sea of the blood of the Martyrs (Shahids) *
*we will create the State of Palestine"*
*"Fatah Movement - The official page"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

The annexation of American history is the latest in the Palestinian takeover of U.S. protest movements on various issues: Linda Sarsour, for example, became the official spokeswoman of women's groups when she created a unique link between feminism and Islamism in the name of fighting racism. Sarsour, a native of Brooklyn who led the so-called Women's March on Inauguration Day, also became one of the leaders of the Black Lives Matter protest movement, whose official colors have become black, white, red and green – the colors of the Palestinian flag.

Israel can't ignore this growing trend of Palestinians' co-opting the narratives of minorities in American society, especially in light of the fact that the anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist dialogue ignores the fact that Muslim Arabs, including the Palestinians, were and are a colonialist phenomenon, not victims of history, even if for a short period of their existence they were under colonial rule.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/columbus-in-palestine/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Islam, using the West in its war against Israel.  For  a little piece of land ]

In addition to this post, on October 14, 2017, AFPS 34 will host an event “From the Balfour Declaration till today, a colonial tragedy- Keys to understand, keys to act!” supported by “departmental Council of Hérault” – a French regional government branch. Despite that boycotts and calls for boycotts are illegal under French law, topics at the event will include discussions regarding past BDS (boycott, divestment, and sanctions) campaigns against Israeli banks and the Orange-Partner mobile phone network in Israel. B’Tselem researcher, Adam Aloni, and Ayman Odeh, head of Israel’s Joint (Arab) List in the Israeli Knesset, are included in the program.

(full article online)

Local Branch of French Government Funded Organization Promotes Violence


----------



## JoelT1

Hollie said:


> Aww. The Death Cultists are so cute when they launch these recruitment drives for vacant minded islamo-bots
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Dying for Allah “will create the State of Palestine” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> In a post on Facebook, Abbas' Fatah Movement encourages Palestinians to die for Allah. It is Palestinians dying for Allah, the spilling of "the blood of the Martyrs," Fatah says, that *"will create the State of Palestine."*
> 
> Fatah posted the following text together with a collage of photos of terrorists:
> 
> *"#Palestine"
> "From the sea of the blood of the Martyrs (Shahids)
> we will create the State of Palestine"
> "Fatah Movement - The official page"*



Palestine: Roman name for Jews’ land


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Most Christian peacemakers would consider it bad form to engage in exultant displays of solidarity with a political movement that uses anti-Jewish violence and hatred as a unifying agenda, but Raheb has been offering displays like this for years. From Raheb’s perspective as an anti-Israel agitator and approval-seeking dhimmi, his visit to Al Aqsa was a smashing success. It allowed him an opportunity to shroud jihadist violence behind veils of “creative resistance” and inter-religious “unity” between Christians and Muslims – never mind that the unity he lauded is rooted in a shared contempt for Jews and their state.

(full article online)

OUT OF BETHLEHEM: MITRI RAHEB'S EMPIRE OF LIES ...by Dexter Van Zile


----------



## Sixties Fan

This report by Mike Lanchin is not, as noted above, timed to coincide with an anniversary and its featured interviewee does not have a particularly historically important story to tell. One might therefore wonder why Lanchin travelled all the way to the Gaza Strip to interview a specific person who was a child at the time of the disengagement.

Maisoon Bashir describes herself as follows:

“I have been asked to introduce myself. I am wondering how I should, as an activist or a journalist, who tries to raise the voice of Palestine? Both are true, but I prefer to introduce myself just as a Palestinian girl, because my nationality is a testament to the authenticity of my homeland and the injustices borne by my people.”

Her activism is given a platform at a site called ‘We Are Not Numbers’ that is linked to a political NGO currently called ‘Euro Med Rights’ (which has Richard Falk as chair of its board of trustees) and which was founded by a self-described “social justice activist” called Pam Bailey who is also associated with Code Pink. Bashir’s writings have also been posted at the Hamas linked outlet MEMO.

BBC audiences, however, were not informed that they were in fact listening to a political activist (in breach of BBC editorial guidelines on impartiality) and neither were they given any insight into how Mike Lanchin was introduced to her story or why he visited the Gaza Strip (where the BBC has a staffed local office) to interview her.

(full article online)

BBC WS history show yet again promotes political narrative


----------



## Sixties Fan

The most widespread conspiracy theory, which has been floating around for decades and can be heard in almost every coffee shop on the streets of Cairo, Amman, Ramallah and Beirut, is that Zionist Jews, together with American capitalists and imperialists, have a secret plan to take control over the Arab and Islamic countries and their resources.


How exactly are the "Zionists and imperialists" trying to "undermine" the Palestinian "national project"? And what, precisely, is this project? Is it the project of Hamas and many other Palestinians that seeks the destruction of Israel?


The corrupt Arab and Palestinian leaders spread such rumors to divert attention from problems at home, such as corruption and dictatorship. These leaders want their people too busy hating Jews and Westerners to demand reform, democracy and transparency from their leaders. Those valuables, of course, are what Arab and Palestinian leaders still refuse to offer their people.


Why do many Palestinians prefer peace with Hamas? Because they identify with Hamas's dream of destroying Israel and killing Jews. It may be an unpleasant a truth, but that is the bottom line.

(full article online)


Palestinian Normalization -- With Hamas, Not Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The most widespread conspiracy theory, which has been floating around for decades and can be heard in almost every coffee shop on the streets of Cairo, Amman, Ramallah and Beirut, is that Zionist Jews, together with American capitalists and imperialists, have a secret plan to take control over the Arab and Islamic countries and their resources.


----------



## JoelT1

Arab leaders pray that “palestinians” disappear Abd Al-Bari Atwan: The Arab Leaders Are Praying That Israel Will Get Rid of the Palestinians Once and for All


----------



## Hollie

IQ’less in the Death Cult


----------



## Sixties Fan

Cornell Prof Dissects the Many Lies of Rasmieh Odeh


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## JoelT1

Who are the “palestinians”?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]

Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> [These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]
> 
> Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’



Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]
> 
> Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!
Click to expand...

It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.

But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.

And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]
> 
> Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.
> 
> But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.
> 
> And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?
Click to expand...


True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]
> 
> Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.
> 
> But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.
> 
> And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.
Click to expand...

It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.

That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]
> 
> Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.
> 
> But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.
> 
> And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
> They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.
> 
> That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.
Click to expand...


Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinians.  Once they write a charter, it becomes a charter for all eternity.  Change it?  Do away with it?  Not in Islam. ]
> 
> Hamas: Unity deal is so we can all ‘work together against Zionist enterprise’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.
> 
> But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.
> 
> And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
> They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.
> 
> That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are funny: Their own Koran has Allah being a Zionist!
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.
> 
> But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.
> 
> And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
> They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.
> 
> That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
> They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.
Click to expand...


Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on who wrote that passage.  They prefer the passages where Jews are Apes and pigs and must be hunted down behind trees.
> 
> But.....that is only the extremist Muslims who choose the conquest parts of the Quran.  And then....Mohammad was in the mood of conquering and not of being conquered.
> 
> And that is how we now have about, how many (?) Muslim conquered lands/countries in Asia and Africa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
> They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.
> 
> That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
> They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.
Click to expand...


It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.

Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. Muslims embrace “palestine” a PAGAN ROMAN name referring to PAGAN GREEK Philistines.
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
> They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.
> 
> That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
> They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.
> 
> Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
> Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
> And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.
Click to expand...


Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what they call the land.  The extremist ones believe that once they conquered a land, that it is forever theirs.
> They still dream of taking back their part of Spain, Vienna, etc in Europe, which Muslims had once conquered.
> 
> That is the reason for the conflict with Israel.  It is not a Muslim sovereign country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
> They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.
> 
> Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
> Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
> And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
Click to expand...

Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.

Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only Arab Muslim land is Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
> They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.
> 
> Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
> Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
> And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
Click to expand...


Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek


----------



## rylah

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it is the whole Arabian Peninsula.  Yemen, Qatar, EUA.
> They are all Arabs.  Different clans. There are hundreds of Arab clans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.
> 
> Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
> Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
> And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek
Click to expand...


Gaza or עזה in Hebrew, comes from the root ע-ז,
as in עז מצח -  insolent
or עז פנים - shameless.
Gaza is such a place.

Heard about the false prophet Nathan of Gaza?


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews inhabited Arabia long before Muslims existed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.
> 
> Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
> Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
> And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza or עזה in Hebrew, comes from the root ע-ז,
> as in עז מצח -  insolent
> or עז פנים - shameless.
> Gaza is such a place.
> 
> Heard about the false prophet Nathan of Gaza?
Click to expand...


Gaza is the Greek form of Azzah, the Hebrew word for fortress. Nothing to do with Arabs


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is one thing to live in a part of the world, and another to be indigenous of that area.
> 
> Islam put an end to the Jews being allowed to reside in that Peninsula.
> Now they have done the same with TransJordan and Gaza.
> And both of those are Jewish ancient homelands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza or עזה in Hebrew, comes from the root ע-ז,
> as in עז מצח -  insolent
> or עז פנים - shameless.
> Gaza is such a place.
> 
> Heard about the false prophet Nathan of Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is the Greek form of Azzah, the Hebrew word for fortress. Nothing to do with Arabs
Click to expand...

What are the Hebrew words for "so what?"


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza or עזה in Hebrew, comes from the root ע-ז,
> as in עז מצח -  insolent
> or עז פנים - shameless.
> Gaza is such a place.
> 
> Heard about the false prophet Nathan of Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is the Greek form of Azzah, the Hebrew word for fortress. Nothing to do with Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the Hebrew words for "so what?"
Click to expand...


In Hebrew :
"So What" = Tin More


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza or עזה in Hebrew, comes from the root ע-ז,
> as in עז מצח -  insolent
> or עז פנים - shameless.
> Gaza is such a place.
> 
> Heard about the false prophet Nathan of Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is the Greek form of Azzah, the Hebrew word for fortress. Nothing to do with Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the Hebrew words for "so what?"
Click to expand...





The more we dig into the what "Philistine" and "Gaza" mean in* the local language*, the more clears up.

Gaza - is a place if insolence.
Philistine - is the land of the invaders.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is Hebrew in origin, Azzah. Jews’ history is really old!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is.  3800 years, and 3000 years since King David created Israel with the capital of Jerusalem.
> 
> Gaza was mainly inhabited by the Philistines for a long time until David defeated them.
> Now, it is governed by Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Azzah means fortress in Hebrew, referring to the Philistine fortress. Philistines were not “palestinians” Philistines were Greek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza or עזה in Hebrew, comes from the root ע-ז,
> as in עז מצח -  insolent
> or עז פנים - shameless.
> Gaza is such a place.
> 
> Heard about the false prophet Nathan of Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is the Greek form of Azzah, the Hebrew word for fortress. Nothing to do with Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the Hebrew words for "so what?"
Click to expand...


Doesn’t require a high IQ to understand Gaza’s Hebrew origins reflect its ancient Jewish history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli-Arab couple welcomes all in Sukkah of Hope


----------



## Sixties Fan

[I prefer her cousins, who are loyal to Israel as citizens. They do not attempt to demonize or try to destroy Israel with their words.  They know Arabs have a better life in Israel, as a Jewish State, than in any Arab country. ]

Arab MK: Jews have no right to self-determination


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> [I prefer her cousins, who are loyal to Israel as citizens. They do not attempt to demonize or try to destroy Israel with their words.  They know Arabs have a better life in Israel, as a Jewish State, than in any Arab country. ]
> 
> Arab MK: Jews have no right to self-determination



Arabs are jealous of Jews. Jewish history dates back thousands of years before Arabs’ Every page of the Koran plagiarizes the Jewish Bible


----------



## Ventura77

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...



LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sorry, but it is not jealousy which sparks this Arab MK and many other Arabs to want to destroy Israel.  It is what Mohammed thought and did with the Jews who lived in Arabia and ended up being written in the Quran.

Islam is a replacement religion.  It takes that idea from Christianity which sought to replace Judaism as well.

Both borrow heavily from the Hebrew strictures.

And this Christian MK, and many other Arab Christians and Muslims, is only doing what their extremist fellow men and women follow.

Jews have no right to land, to sovereignty, on land once conquered by Muslims.

That is why the "Palestinians" exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
Click to expand...


It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.

But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.


----------



## JoelT1

Ventura77 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
Click to expand...


Nonsense.

First, Jews were called palestinians until Israeli statehood. Second, multiple Arab armies attacked Israel. Populations are inevitably displaced in war and Arab leaders urged Arabs to relocate in order to facilitate victory that never occurred

Read, learn The U.N. Can't Deliver a Palestinian State


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
Click to expand...


Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
Click to expand...


First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.

Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?

LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.

Let us have some evidence of anything you said.

And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.

And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.

Look them up.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> As previously stated, the proof of my assertions are the first round of Israeli leaders---including Ben Gurion himself...you are a robotic liar, but then again lies are all you have...your nation was built on lies, blood and signature cowardice...
> 
> Look them up.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
Click to expand...



I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
Click to expand...


If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.

So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.

Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.

In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.

And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.

Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine.



You have created quite a paradox for yourself here.  If the objective condition for holding the "right of return" is whether or not one has set foot in the territory -- then neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinian "refugees" have a right of return absent of that condition.  If one is being objective, either they are both restricted by that condition, or neither is.  You can't impose a condition on the one group and not on the other without revealing your hypocrisy.


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have created quite a paradox for yourself here.  If the objective condition for holding the "right of return" is whether or not one has set foot in the territory -- then neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinian "refugees" have a right of return absent of that condition.  If one is being objective, either they are both restricted by that condition, or neither is.  You can't impose a condition on the one group and not on the other without revealing your hypocrisy.
Click to expand...


There is no such right of return in international law nor the UN Charter It is a myth

Furthermore, Arabs, who attacked Israel and fled or were displaced, have no moral right to return And for most so-called “palestinians” who are merely Arabs from various Arab countries identifying as such, there is nothing to return to except the Arab countries of origin


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  If I ever encounter a defender of Israel who can identify the facts without instinctively twisting them I fear I will go into cardiac arrest..
> What should be interpreted here as routine Jewish arrogance and stalling only becomes that much more egregious the longer one considers it...in 1948 some 800,000 native Palestinians were driven from their property at gunpoint in a Zionist ethnic-cleansing and terror campaign that is ludicrously referred to now as "Israel's War for Independence"...given the obvious fact that no "dependent' Israel existed we should take this slogan as nothing more than typical Jewish propaganda. Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine. And now as a pre-condition for peace the subject population that has been robbed blind by the nefarious Machiavellian Jews are being told to grant legitimacy and "recognition" to a criminal state that illegally expelled them and stole their land...
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
Click to expand...



Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged. 

International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”


----------



## JoelT1

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus
Click to expand...




Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like the only "arrogant" one would be you.
> 
> But, thank you for all the ignorant words you bothered to type on this thread, just because you had nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
Click to expand...


Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation 

Google Groups

Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force.



Oh please.  International law says no such thing. 



> The only “right” Israel can claim is ... “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”



There is no conceivable way for Israel to end its "occupation" because there is no treaty delineating "Palestinian" territory and therefore no withdrawal from territory will be seen as complete. (Witness Gaza, whose border is not even in dispute). The only way through this mess is a peace treaty between Israel and the governing authority in "Palestine".  The sooner the better.


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  International law says no such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only “right” Israel can claim is ... “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no conceivable way for Israel to end its "occupation" because there is no treaty delineating "Palestinian" territory and therefore no withdrawal from territory will be seen as complete. (Witness Gaza, whose border is not even in dispute). The only way through this mess is a peace treaty between Israel and the governing authority in "Palestine".  The sooner the better.
Click to expand...


Um, there is no government in the mythical entity of “palestine”


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  International law says no such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only “right” Israel can claim is ... “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no conceivable way for Israel to end its "occupation" because there is no treaty delineating "Palestinian" territory and therefore no withdrawal from territory will be seen as complete. (Witness Gaza, whose border is not even in dispute). The only way through this mess is a peace treaty between Israel and the governing authority in "Palestine".  The sooner the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, there is no government in the mythical entity of “palestine”
Click to expand...


Arguable.  But the sooner the Arabs get their crap together and make a government and become a proper State and sign a peace treaty with Israel, the better for all of us.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mohammed Assaf*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nour Freteikh*


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the fakestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gaza is Hebrew in origin, azzah. Not Arabic. Jews’ ancient land


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Boycott Divestment & Sanctions: An Interview in Gaza with Haidar Eid*

**


----------



## JoelT1

Ara


P F Tinmore said:


> *Boycott Divestment & Sanctions: An Interview in Gaza with Haidar Eid*
> 
> **



Funny: Boycotting Israel but using Israeli computer technology Keep it up!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*words speech about surfing in gaza from suheir hammad*

**


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> *words speech about surfing in gaza from suheir hammad*
> 
> **



Gaza is Hebrew in origin, azzah, reflecting its ancient Jewish history. It’s not Arabic


----------



## P F Tinmore

*POET IN ANDALUCIA The poet: Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Deliberately Targeting Children and Whole Families - Max Igan & Noor Harazeen*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Free the children from the Arab-Islamist Death Cult


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→ _ et al,_

*(BACKGROUND)* 

*•••  Palestinian rivals Fatah, Hamas sign reconciliation accord  •••*
GAZA/CAIRO (Reuters) - Rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah signed a reconciliation deal on Thursday after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
SOURCE:  REUTERS - World News Service by Nidal al-Mughrabi, Omar Fahmy 12 October 2017​
*(COMMENT)*

Evidently, the Egyptians have been successful in brokering a deal between Fatah and HAMAS on the agreement to transfer administrative powers.  HAMAS has exhibited major anxiety on financial and political issues after it principle benefactor (Qatar) came under fire from other key Arab League Nations for supporting Islamist militants [transgression, of S/RES/1373 (2001) _(Prevent and suppress the financing of terrorist acts)_ and S/RES/1624 (2005) _(Prohibition against incitement to commit terrorist acts)_]. 

*•••  Arab powers sever Qatar ties, citing support for militant  •••*
DUBAI (Reuters) - The Arab world’s biggest powers cut ties with Qatar on Monday, accusing it of support for Islamist militants and Iran, and reopening a festering wound two weeks after U.S. President Donald Trump’s demand for Muslim states to fight terrorism.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain severed diplomatic relations with Qatar in a coordinated move. Yemen, Libya’s eastern-based government and the Maldives joined later. Transport links shut down, triggering supply shortages.

Closing all transport links with Qatar, the three Gulf states gave Qatari visitors and residents two weeks to leave, and Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Egypt banned Qatari planes from landing and forbade them from crossing their air space.
SOURCE:  REUTERS - World News Service by N[URL='https://www.reuters.com/journalists/noah-browning']oah Browning[/URL] 5 June 2017​
*(COMMENT)*

The importance here _(the point)_ is that HAMAS, following the same economic path as most of the Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions. HAMAS with its ties to Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence can not continue without the serious support of the donors.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.


You gatta love fake news.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

Wow!  You have a lot of nerve, after you and your choir have posted old videos as if it was representative of today's news.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> You gatta love fake news.
Click to expand...

*(QUESTION)*

Exactly what are you calling "fake?"

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Wow!  You have a lot of nerve, after you and your choir have posted old videos as if it was representative of today's news.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> You gatta love fake news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Exactly what are you calling "fake?"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The "Hamas coup" is fake news.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ _ et al,_
> 
> *(BACKGROUND)*
> 
> *•••  Palestinian rivals Fatah, Hamas sign reconciliation accord  •••*
> GAZA/CAIRO (Reuters) - Rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah signed a reconciliation deal on Thursday after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> SOURCE:  REUTERS - World News Service by Nidal al-Mughrabi, Omar Fahmy 12 October 2017​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Evidently, the Egyptians have been successful in brokering a deal between Fatah and HAMAS on the agreement to transfer administrative powers.  HAMAS has exhibited major anxiety on financial and political issues after it principle benefactor (Qatar) came under fire from other key Arab League Nations for supporting Islamist militants [transgression, of S/RES/1373 (2001) _(Prevent and suppress the financing of terrorist acts)_ and S/RES/1624 (2005) _(Prohibition against incitement to commit terrorist acts)_].
> 
> *•••  Arab powers sever Qatar ties, citing support for militant  •••*
> DUBAI (Reuters) - The Arab world’s biggest powers cut ties with Qatar on Monday, accusing it of support for Islamist militants and Iran, and reopening a festering wound two weeks after U.S. President Donald Trump’s demand for Muslim states to fight terrorism.
> 
> Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain severed diplomatic relations with Qatar in a coordinated move. Yemen, Libya’s eastern-based government and the Maldives joined later. Transport links shut down, triggering supply shortages.
> 
> Closing all transport links with Qatar, the three Gulf states gave Qatari visitors and residents two weeks to leave, and Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Egypt banned Qatari planes from landing and forbade them from crossing their air space.
> SOURCE:  REUTERS - World News Service by Noah Browning 5 June 2017​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The importance here _(the point)_ is that HAMAS, following the same economic path as most of the Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions. HAMAS with its ties to Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence can not continue without the serious support of the donors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Your usual slime piece.


RoccoR said:


> Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions.


After Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed most of their production capacity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ _ et al,_
> 
> *(BACKGROUND)*
> 
> *•••  Palestinian rivals Fatah, Hamas sign reconciliation accord  •••*
> GAZA/CAIRO (Reuters) - Rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah signed a reconciliation deal on Thursday after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> SOURCE:  REUTERS - World News Service by Nidal al-Mughrabi, Omar Fahmy 12 October 2017​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Evidently, the Egyptians have been successful in brokering a deal between Fatah and HAMAS on the agreement to transfer administrative powers.  HAMAS has exhibited major anxiety on financial and political issues after it principle benefactor (Qatar) came under fire from other key Arab League Nations for supporting Islamist militants [transgression, of S/RES/1373 (2001) _(Prevent and suppress the financing of terrorist acts)_ and S/RES/1624 (2005) _(Prohibition against incitement to commit terrorist acts)_].
> 
> *•••  Arab powers sever Qatar ties, citing support for militant  •••*
> DUBAI (Reuters) - The Arab world’s biggest powers cut ties with Qatar on Monday, accusing it of support for Islamist militants and Iran, and reopening a festering wound two weeks after U.S. President Donald Trump’s demand for Muslim states to fight terrorism.
> 
> Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain severed diplomatic relations with Qatar in a coordinated move. Yemen, Libya’s eastern-based government and the Maldives joined later. Transport links shut down, triggering supply shortages.
> 
> Closing all transport links with Qatar, the three Gulf states gave Qatari visitors and residents two weeks to leave, and Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Egypt banned Qatari planes from landing and forbade them from crossing their air space.
> SOURCE:  REUTERS - World News Service by Noah Browning 5 June 2017​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The importance here _(the point)_ is that HAMAS, following the same economic path as most of the Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions. HAMAS with its ties to Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence can not continue without the serious support of the donors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual slime piece.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed most of their production capacity.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Wow!  You have a lot of nerve, after you and your choir have posted old videos as if it was representative of today's news.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> You gatta love fake news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Exactly what are you calling "fake?"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Hamas coup" is fake news.
Click to expand...


Shirley, you have a PressTV produced YouTube video.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Watch: WCJ uncovers 'lethal reporting' in Arab-Israeli conflict



In point of fact 'Anti=Zionism' is the moral and ethical position that a group of lying, piratical European Jews had no legal right to usurp the 13 century residency rights of the native population of Historic Palestine, and conduct an ethnic-cleansing offensive which culminated in the unlawful construct of modern Israel...


----------



## Ventura77

GHook93 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol you are delusional. Israel shows amazing restraint against her enemies. They don't desire world domination like Islam does. They desire ownership over their homeland, which is one of the smallest countries in the world.
> 
> It is Islam that is the threat to the world. They seek world domination, similar to the NAZIs. They believe all non-Muslims are inferior and worthy of death (similar to how the NAZIs viewed non-Aryans). They have no problem will killing innocent people, including fellow Muslims. They desire nuclear arms to accomplish this goal.
> 
> So take your delusional antisemitism and shove it up your ass
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
Click to expand...



'amazing restraint???"  ROTFLMAO!!!!  and you call others 'delusional?"   We've all sampled the 'amazing restraint' of the Jewish cowards, who indiscriminately target hospitals...schools...mosques...Red Cross facilities...UN refugee shelters...apartment blocks...even playgrounds...you lacked the spine to fight back against the SS and Gestapo, yet puff yourselves up by tormenting and murdering people who are without a comparable military deterrent...COWARDS!


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

I don't think anyone used the word "coup."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Wow!  You have a lot of nerve, after you and your choir have posted old videos as if it was representative of today's news.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> You gatta love fake news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Exactly what are you calling "fake?"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Hamas coup" is fake news.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Anytime a conflict starts between HAMAS and Fatah, that is Palestinian → on → Palestinian; or a conflict between opposing groups of citizens (HAMAS and Fatah) of the same country. Palestine  We typically call this a civil war; especially when it is over the issue of which side will maintain sovereign control.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: WCJ uncovers 'lethal reporting' in Arab-Israeli conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In point of fact 'Anti=Zionism' is the moral and ethical position that a group of lying, piratical European Jews had no legal right to usurp the 13 century residency rights of the native population of Historic Palestine, and conduct an ethnic-cleansing offensive which culminated in the unlawful construct of modern Israel...
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Palestine, fake Roman name for ancient Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think anyone used the word "coup."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Wow!  You have a lot of nerve, after you and your choir have posted old videos as if it was representative of today's news.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> after Hamas agreed to hand over administrative control of Gaza, including the key Rafah border crossing, a decade after seizing the enclave in a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> You gatta love fake news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Exactly what are you calling "fake?"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Hamas coup" is fake news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Anytime a conflict starts between HAMAS and Fatah, that is Palestinian → on → Palestinian; or a conflict between opposing groups of citizens (HAMAS and Fatah) of the same country. Palestine  We typically call this a civil war; especially when it is over the issue of which side will maintain sovereign control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Coup, civil war, violent takeover, blah, blah, blah...whatever. It is just a lie. Brought to you by the serial liars - The US and Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab | Shaping a Different US Policy Toward Palestinians: What Would It Take?*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Shaping a Different US Policy Toward Islamic Terrorists: What Would It Take?*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Ventura77, et al,

I am pretty sure you don't have a clue.



Ventura77 said:


> amazing restraint???"  ROTFLMAO!!!!  and you call others 'delusional?"   We've all sampled the 'amazing restraint' of the Jewish cowards, who indiscriminately target hospitals...schools...mosques...Red Cross facilities...UN refugee shelters...apartment blocks...even playgrounds...you lacked the spine to fight back against the SS and Gestapo, yet puff yourselves up by tormenting and murdering people who are without a comparable military deterrent...COWARDS!


*(COMMENT)*

In 1948, the Israelis faced-off with the Arab League Multinational forces which the bulk consisting of conventional formation, but did utilize Asymmetric Forces with included Irregulars and organized volunteers.  There are lots of people who have studied the combat history of the 1948 War of Independence (Arab-Israeli).  For a complete order of battle listing --- see:

•  √  Arab Order of Battle in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War  √
•  √ Israeli Order of Battle in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War  √​
In the 1967 Six Day War.  See: The Israeli and Arab Order of Battle, 

Arab Forces
12 Syrian Brigades
12 Jordanian Brigades
6 Egyptian Divisions + 1 Brigade Size Task Force + 3 Additional Brigades​Israeli Forces
12 brigades of various types​
In the 1973 Yom Kipper War by an Arab Surprise attack, the Israeli's encircled and captured the entire Egyptian 3d Army; approximately 80,000 personnel killed or captured.  On the Syrian Front less than 200 Israeli tanks oppose more than 1,000 Syrian tanks. 

However, today -- the typical threat is not from a conventional force.  The Israelis have to face the Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence that is incited and promoted by various Pro-Palestinian sympathizers.

Yes, you can run your mouth about how terrible the Israelis are: "puff yourselves up by tormenting and murdering people who are without a comparable military deterrent."  But the Israelis did not hijack any aircraft, kill unarmed passengers and throw their body on the tarmac, takeover a Cruise-liner and kill a wheelchair bound passenger, line-up and machine gun unarmed passengers off a bus, kidnap and murder teenagers, bomb restaurants and cafes, deliberately attach school buses and tourist conveyances.   And much much more...

*IF* you are, for one second, trying to present the picture of the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinians, who intentionally conduct operations in close proximity to schools, hostiles and densely populated residential areas, etc, is the underdog and hero in this drama prolonged by them --- *THEN* you should write fairy tales.  While there is no government or culture does everything right _(except maybe for the Australian Aborigines)_, there is no culture like the Arab Palestinian for the model of how to do it wrong. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

Oh come on.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions.
> 
> 
> 
> After Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed most of their production capacity.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

For half a century, from every imaginable international resource for reconstruction,  dollars have rolled-in to the Arab Palestinians.  And the intelligent, grateful, creative and and resourceful Arab Palestinian squanders it away.   

Any punishment or retaliation they receive is only awards for their grater misdeeds.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Oh come on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions.
> 
> 
> 
> After Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed most of their production capacity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For half a century, from every imaginable international resource for reconstruction,  dollars have rolled-in to the Arab Palestinians.  And the intelligent, grateful, creative and and resourceful Arab Palestinian squanders it away.
> 
> Any punishment or retaliation they receive is only awards for their grater misdeeds.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What does have to do with my post?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Oh come on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians in the region, has become a totally dependent parasite on donor contributions.
> 
> 
> 
> After Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed most of their production capacity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For half a century, from every imaginable international resource for reconstruction,  dollars have rolled-in to the Arab Palestinians.  And the intelligent, grateful, creative and and resourceful Arab Palestinian squanders it away.
> 
> Any punishment or retaliation they receive is only awards for their grater misdeeds.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Where is the link for all of this destruction you are alleging?

And if it was during any one of the wars started by Hamas, if any Hamas member is firing rockets from those "production areas" you are crying about, then yes, they are military targets, Hamas knows that very well but keeps firing from inside the cities, from Mosques, 
schools, etc.

There are consequences for engaging war from civilian areas instead of all the open area they could be doing it from.

Stolen?  Your endless mantra.  The Hashemites stole 78% of the mandate for Palestine in 1925.  You will not hear Israel demand it back or attacking Jordan to try to get any back.

Egypt does the same thing to Hamas.  It punishes Gaza if Hamas or any other group dare to attack Egyptian soldiers or civilians.

Mr. "Israel does not Exist".

Israel has stolen nothing.
Palestine is Israel and Israel is Palestine.
The Jews are the indigenous people of the land with over 3800 years of recorded history on it.
Arabs have 1700 of invaded history on the land where the indigenous Jews were still living, and acknowledge it in their early writings.

Hamas refuses to disarm because it wants to start another war, possibly at the same time as Hezbollah.

Both will be the losers, big time.

Then, you will plenty to cry about, again and again.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Palestine and Transjordan are one, for Palestine is the coastline and Transjordan is the hinterland of the same country_ -King Abdullah, Cairo, April 12, 1948.

_Jordanians and Palestinians are considered by the PLO as one people _-Farouk Kaddoumi, Head of the PLO Political Department, Newsweek, March 14, 1977.

_Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine_… -Prince Hassan, Jordanian National Assembly, February 2, 1970.

_The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan_ -King Hussein of Jordan, Amman, 1981.

_Let us not forget the East Bank of the Jordan [River] where seventy percent of the inhabitants belong to the Palestinian nation_.  George Habash, leader of the PFLP of the PLO, February 1970
--------
Of course, one does not have to be a “radical Right-wing extremist” to embrace the “Jordan-is-Palestine” concept. 

To the contrary, as the introductory excerpts clearly show, it has been embraced for decades by leading political figures—both Jordanian and Palestinian. Indeed, both admit that a separate “Palestinian national identity” is no more than a contrived construct to undermine Jewish claims to sovereignty over the Land of Israel.

Thus, in 1987, while still claiming all of Judea-Samaria as part of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, King Hussein declared “The appearance of the Palestinian national personality comes as an answer to Israel’s claim that Palestine is Jewish.” Clearly, this necessarily implies that, had there been no Jewish national claims, no Palestinian national claims would have been raised. Accordingly, we are compelled to conclude that the “Palestinian national personality” is devoid of any independent existence, and merely a fictional derivative, fabricated to counteract Jewish territorial claims.

Significantly, precisely this position was expressed ten years earlier by PLO executive council member, Zuhir Muhsein, in an oft-cited, but never rebuffed, 1977 interview: “[It is] just for political reasons [that]we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.

(full article online)

The “Jordan-is-Palestine” Conference-Why I agreed to participate


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have created quite a paradox for yourself here.  If the objective condition for holding the "right of return" is whether or not one has set foot in the territory -- then neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinian "refugees" have a right of return absent of that condition.  If one is being objective, either they are both restricted by that condition, or neither is.  You can't impose a condition on the one group and not on the other without revealing your hypocrisy.
Click to expand...



Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...by contrast the other began emigrating into Historic Palestine in the late 19th century...the native refugees who were expelled in 48 hold legal 'right of return'...the Ashkenazi trash who usurped their residency right are entitled to nothing!!


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation
> 
> Google Groups
> 
> Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School
Click to expand...




JoelT1 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation
> 
> Google Groups
> 
> Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School
Click to expand...




JoelT1 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation
> 
> Google Groups
> 
> Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School
Click to expand...




JoelT1 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation
> 
> Google Groups
> 
> Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School
Click to expand...




JoelT1 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like the typical obscurantist: please note that you offer not even a bare shred of an argument, merely the standard mindless, self-embarrassing denial...I deeply regret to inform you that your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders who were quite frank about what they'd done...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First two posts since you joined in.  Congratulations.
> 
> Exactly where is the proof of what you said, except that you felt like saying it?
> 
> LOL say us, because without evidence what you have is the Jihadist side teaching you what to believe.
> 
> Let us have some evidence of anything you said.
> 
> And I would like to see you start your history from 1920, and not from 1948.
> 
> And if you cannot find some videos of Arab villagers telling the world that their Arab Leaders had told them via the radio to leave their villages and wait until they killed all the Jews and destroyed the new State of Israel, do not worry, I will post them for you.
> There are also those who tell of the Hashemite Jordanians telling them to leave while they destroy Israel and all the Jews.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would bid you to 'look them up'...not that difficult to the extent that every notable Zionist figure essentially confirms my comments...face the dismal fact that lies are all you can offer...and not even clever lies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you do have that every notable ZIonist confirms what you say, than please post them here. Bring videos  as well.
> Just make sure that it is the whole quotation and not an edited version of it, without time or context as to what was happening at the time.
> 
> So far, all you have done is give lip service as to how bad Israel, Zionist, etc are.
> 
> Zionism is the indigenous Jewish people of the land acquiring sovereignty over what is even now, only 20% of their traditional ancient land.  80% has been taken by Arabs who are not the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> In that context, give us the Zionist vision where they are not the native, indigenous people of the land and came and stole the land from their rightful owners.
> Or....had every intention of sending all Arabs away, especially after the endless Arab attacks on Jews where Jews were not only attacked, but raped, murdered and those who survived ....expelled.
> 
> And that was going on from 1920 to 1948 all during the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Please, show us where Jews do not have the right to protect and defend themselves , on their ancient homeland, from attacks by those who wished to see them all dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently your elective ignorance is only confirmed in the febrile interiors of your tiny brain...you literally know nothing of the critical history or the facts that immutably inform it...but then I remind myself that lies are the life's blood of Israeli defenders, without these crude, often hilarious lies you would be obliged to concede the obvious: European Jews had zero claim to one square foot of Palestine...you are essentially a pack of scoundrels and spineless cowards who prefer to murder defenseless Arab women and children than face-off with an equal or greater military force. Someone should explain to you that Jews aren't the one's defending themselves, rather they are the plunderers and killers, the pirates and thieves whose lies take on the cancer of savages the longer they go unchallenged.
> 
> International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle. Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures. In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is — in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate — “to withdraw its administration … immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation
> 
> Google Groups
> 
> Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School
Click to expand...



LOL!!!!   the ICC and United Nations would beg to differ...let's briefly weigh the perspective of a Zionist 'legal scholar' against the international consensus...shall we?


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have created quite a paradox for yourself here.  If the objective condition for holding the "right of return" is whether or not one has set foot in the territory -- then neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinian "refugees" have a right of return absent of that condition.  If one is being objective, either they are both restricted by that condition, or neither is.  You can't impose a condition on the one group and not on the other without revealing your hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...by contrast the other began emigrating into Historic Palestine in the late 19th century...the native refugees who were expelled in 48 hold legal 'right of return'...the Ashkenazi trash who usurped their residency right are entitled to nothing!!
Click to expand...


Oh yay!  Yet another person who doesn't think the Jewish people have anything to do with ... well... the Jewish people.  Ooooh....and it comes with a side of anti-semitic toxicity like "Ashkenazi trash" in every post.  Why is it so hard to find intelligent, thoughtful participants on Team Palestine?  


So, objectively, then, people who have never "set foot" in "Palestine" DO have rights according to your view.  You might want to retract and rewrite your post.  Really, what you meant to say was that people who have never set foot in "Palestine" have every right to return there, as long as they aren't JOOOOOOOOs.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...



The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Where is the link for all of this destruction you are alleging?


You would already know if you looked at real news not that Israeli bullshit stuff.

One of hundreds. I could post this stuff all day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
Click to expand...

You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.

But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.

Of course not.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...



Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the link for all of this destruction you are alleging?
> 
> 
> 
> You would already know if you looked at real news not that Israeli bullshit stuff.
> 
> One of hundreds. I could post this stuff all day.
Click to expand...


Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?


----------



## JoelT1

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
Click to expand...



Bill Clinton: Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools, populated areas Bill Clinton: 'I killed myself to give Palestinians a state'


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Clinton: Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools, populated areas Bill Clinton: 'I killed myself to give Palestinians a state'
Click to expand...

Who handed Clinton that list of Israeli talking points?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
Click to expand...

It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the link for all of this destruction you are alleging?
> 
> 
> 
> You would already know if you looked at real news not that Israeli bullshit stuff.
> 
> One of hundreds. I could post this stuff all day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas. Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
Click to expand...

Ooooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested. 

And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


The palestinians? Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel. No such palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Leaked: the six clauses of the Fatah-Hamas deal


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians? Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel. No such palestinians
Click to expand...

Did you just come here to regurgitate Israeli talking points. We already have plenty of people doing that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
Click to expand...

When did I mention Arabs?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Clinton: Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools, populated areas Bill Clinton: 'I killed myself to give Palestinians a state'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who handed Clinton that list of Israeli talking points?
Click to expand...


Arab talking points...

Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
Click to expand...

Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.

Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:

The Arabs of Palestine


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians? Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel. No such palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you just come here to regurgitate Israeli talking points. We already have plenty of people doing that.
Click to expand...


Palestine originating as a Roman name for ancient Israel is well-documented history. Try educating yourself


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
Click to expand...


“Palestinians” are Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manifestly incorrect: One group in question---the native Palestinians--boast a residency right that goes back to the late period of the 7th century...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
Click to expand...

OK, so most are.

What is the relevance?


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians? Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel. No such palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you just come here to regurgitate Israeli talking points. We already have plenty of people doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine originating as a Roman name for ancient Israel is well-documented history. Try educating yourself
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, another tired old Israeli talking point


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
Click to expand...

You tell me.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ JoelT1, Hollie, Shusha, et al,_

This is an intentional derailment.  But!!!   By attempting to avoid a response _(answering)_ by failing to acknowledge it _(how does that answer the question)_ give  credibility to the audience that there is some credence their argument,and that you are unable to answer their point-of-view.



P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians? Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel. No such Palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you just come here to regurgitate Israeli talking points. We already have plenty of people doing that.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You avoid the opponents perspective quite frequently by throwing-out responses like:

•  How does that answer the question?
•  Did you just come here to regurgitate Israeli talking points?​
AND, you stress the unique rights of the Palestinians, and yet challenge the right of the Israelis.

•  But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.​It is not a human right if only the Arab Palestinians have the right.  Just as in any other country in the Middle East, the government exercises authority that only the government can.  The Arab Palestinian today, has not had the authority of sovereignty in a 1000 years.  It has not had an Arab Palestinian government  with sovereignty over any territory _(with the exception of Area "A")_ in over a 1000 years.

•  Under what authority does the Arab Palestinian attempt to overthrow the Sovereignty of Israel?
•  Under what authority does any Arab Palestinian Party claim sovereignty over any territory?​
You mention "Talking Points," yet you cannot answer the challenge; or specify what points consider Israeli Talking Points. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • Under what authority does any Arab Palestinian Party claim sovereignty over any territory?


They are the legal citizens of Palestine.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
Click to expand...


You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their Arabic langu


P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With reference to “But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.”, what does the Hamas Charter suggest to you?
> 
> 
> 
> It suggest that Hamas came on the scene decades after Israel's initial assault on the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians? Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel. No such palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you just come here to regurgitate Israeli talking points. We already have plenty of people doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine originating as a Roman name for ancient Israel is well-documented history. Try educating yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another tired old Israeli talking point
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name imposed on Jews’ land


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.

Take your case to them and watch their response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • How does that answer the question?


Well, if they just go off on deflection...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Under what authority does any Arab Palestinian Party claim sovereignty over any territory?
> 
> 
> 
> They are the legal citizens of Palestine.
Click to expand...

They are "legal" citizens of a non existent country?  How can that be?
One needs a country in order for one to be citizen of such a place.

There is no country of Palestine.
Never has been.
The Mandate referred to all of those living in the Mandate.
You like to refer only to those who are not Jewish.

The Arabs want a country in Gaza and Areas A and B.

THEY MUST WORK for Peace and bring it about.
NOT continue to want to destroy Israel to make the whole area
"Palestine".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
> They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.
> 
> Take your case to them and watch their response.
Click to expand...

What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • How does that answer the question?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if they just go off on deflection...
Click to expand...

What are the deflections?
You do not answer any questions. You constantly "deflect"

So, what is it that you are trying to say?

You can deflect or say that people are deflecting and that is it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> They are "legal" citizens on a non existent country? How can that be?


Good question.

Look it up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • How does that answer the question?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if they just go off on deflection...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the deflections?
> You do not answer any questions. You constantly "deflect"
> 
> So, what is it that you are trying to say?
> 
> You can deflect or say that people are deflecting and that is it?
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> You do not answer any questions. You constantly "deflect"


Examples?

Links?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
> They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.
> 
> Take your case to them and watch their response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.
Click to expand...

Mr. I do not care about History.

Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
Show me how that happened.

Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
Yes.
Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
Yes, it did.

Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?

And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • How does that answer the question?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if they just go off on deflection...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the deflections?
> You do not answer any questions. You constantly "deflect"
> 
> So, what is it that you are trying to say?
> 
> You can deflect or say that people are deflecting and that is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do not answer any questions. You constantly "deflect"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Examples?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

No one is playing your deflecting games.
This was another example of your deflections.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are "legal" citizens on a non existent country? How can that be?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...

Look it up yourself.
The problem is that you are not going to be able to find the answer if it takes the rest of your life.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
> They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.
> 
> Take your case to them and watch their response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr. I do not care about History.
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> Show me how that happened.
> 
> Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
> Yes.
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> Yes, it did.
> 
> Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?
> 
> And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?


No.


Sixties Fan said:


> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?


How did Egypt lose something that was not theirs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are "legal" citizens on a non existent country? How can that be?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up yourself.
> The problem is that you are not going to be able to find the answer if it takes the rest of your life.
Click to expand...

It is a false question. There is no answer.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
> They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.
> 
> Take your case to them and watch their response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr. I do not care about History.
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> Show me how that happened.
> 
> Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
> Yes.
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> Yes, it did.
> 
> Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?
> 
> And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did Egypt lose something that was not theirs?
Click to expand...


So, how did the Arabs lose a land, a region, which was never theirs?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are "legal" citizens on a non existent country? How can that be?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up yourself.
> The problem is that you are not going to be able to find the answer if it takes the rest of your life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a false question. There is no answer.
Click to expand...

You asked me to look it up, and now it is a "false question".
Were you sending me on a goose chase?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
> They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.
> 
> Take your case to them and watch their response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr. I do not care about History.
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> Show me how that happened.
> 
> Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
> Yes.
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> Yes, it did.
> 
> Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?
> 
> And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did Egypt lose something that was not theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, how did the Arabs lose a land, a region, which was never theirs?
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show this video to Hamas.  They are the government in Gaza.
> They are the ones responsible for everything which has been happening to the poor people in Gaza since 2007.
> 
> Take your case to them and watch their response.
> 
> 
> 
> What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr. I do not care about History.
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> Show me how that happened.
> 
> Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
> Yes.
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> Yes, it did.
> 
> Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?
> 
> And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did Egypt lose something that was not theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, how did the Arabs lose a land, a region, which was never theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You look it up, fool.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are "legal" citizens on a non existent country? How can that be?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up yourself.
> The problem is that you are not going to be able to find the answer if it takes the rest of your life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a false question. There is no answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked me to look it up, and now it is a "false question".
> Were you sending me on a goose chase?
Click to expand...

Like when you asked a false question. I just returned your goose chase.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When did I mention Arabs?



You never mention Arabs.  Yet in any discussion where you say "Palestinians" you mean Arabs almost exclusively.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the 1967 occupation. That was long before there was a Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. I do not care about History.
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> Show me how that happened.
> 
> Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
> Yes.
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> Yes, it did.
> 
> Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?
> 
> And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did Egypt lose something that was not theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, how did the Arabs lose a land, a region, which was never theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look it up, fool.
Click to expand...

You made the claim. Prove it or shut your yap.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never mention Arabs.  Yet in any discussion where you say "Palestinians" you mean Arabs almost exclusively.
Click to expand...

So, what is the relevance?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never mention Arabs.  Yet in any discussion where you say "Palestinians" you mean Arabs almost exclusively.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what is the relevance?
Click to expand...


The relevance is that there are two ethnic and cultural groups in the territory.  One of them is the Arab Palestinians.  We can't very well discuss the conflict if we are prohibited from bringing up one of the groups that has a claim to it, now, can we?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. I do not care about History.
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> Show me how that happened.
> 
> Did Egypt attack Israel, along with other Arab countries in 1967, again?
> Yes.
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> Yes, it did.
> 
> Why do you bring 1967 when Egypt would not take Gaza back no matter how Israel asked them to?
> 
> And most importantly, why do you not blame Egypt for not annexing Gaza to Egypt, or demanding to get it back after 1967?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Egypt have a legal right to Gaza?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did it lose Gaza in that war, as it had gained it in another war, the one in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did Egypt lose something that was not theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, how did the Arabs lose a land, a region, which was never theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look it up, fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made the claim. Prove it or shut your yap.
Click to expand...

I am fascinated by your love for Palestinians, that you do not know that they are Arabs, or do not care that they are Arabs, that you do not know where the Arabs originate from, or that ALL land outside where they came from is invaded, conquered land, which then was conquered by another group of Muslims, and then lost again.

So, when one invades the land belonging to another people, does the land belong to the invaders?  Does most of Europe and Asia, still belong to the Romans, Greeks or Ottoman Turks?
After all they were on those lands for hundreds of years.
So, why don't those lands still belong to all of those groups, and why are they not claiming them?

Are the indigenous people of any land the rightful owners of that land, or not?

Who are the rightful owners of the land of Israel, which the Romans and the British chose to call "Palestine"?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They are the legal citizens of Palestine.



We don't disagree.  Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries.  We agree.

Here's where we part ways.  The reason this did not happen has SOLELY to do with the rejection of the second partition of Palestine and the hostile acts, continuing to this day, of the Arab population of the new State and the invasion of that State by Arab allies to that population.  Its the hostility of the population which caused their lack of citizenship.  This is evidenced, in point of fact, by the reality that all those who remained in the new State, where the new State had sovereign control, gained the citizenship of that State.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

Your biggest problem (and the Arab Palestinians) is your absolute refusal to understand that there is no prohibition on dividing the territory into two (more) States, each to fulfill the demands for self-determination for one group.  Its not rocket science.  This is the source of the conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.


The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.

Can you refute that?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other group in question -- the Jewish people -- boast a residency right that goes back nearly 4000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
Click to expand...


You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language


P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> 
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, more Israeli talking points.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> 
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Jews were originally


P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, more Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Princeton Univ. Professor Bernard Lewis, Dean of Middle East historians: Romans rename Jews’ land palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab | Shaping a Different US Policy Toward Palestinians: What Would It Take?*


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, more Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

Yes ... indeed...


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about an issue that is not contested.
> 
> But, do they have the right to kill people, destroy and steal their stuff.
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
Click to expand...

Why do you hate Palestinians?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously didn't read the post I was responding to. You know. Where that is contested.
> 
> And this whole conflict can be resolved easily and quickly if the Arab half of the Palestinian people -- both Arabs and Jews -- would realize that it's NOT Arab stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
Click to expand...


Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did I mention Arabs?
> 
> 
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word
Click to expand...

No. Not made up.

A descriptor of very real people that live there.  Real people.  Just like the Jews are.  Your persistent effort to diminish and demean them is not unlike that of the antisemites who do the same to the Jews.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tin brain does not think that Palestinians are Arabs.
> 
> Here is a pro Palestinian article which may just clear things for him:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree. Normally, when a territory transfers from one sovereign to another (in this case from the Ottoman Empire to the Jewish homeland) ALL of the citizens transfer with that territory, along with its boundaries. We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Not made up.
> 
> A descriptor of very real people that live there.  Real people.  Just like the Jews are.  Your persistent effort to diminish and demean them is not unlike that of the antisemites who do the same to the Jews.
Click to expand...


The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so most are.
> 
> What is the relevance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Not made up.
> 
> A descriptor of very real people that live there.  Real people.  Just like the Jews are.  Your persistent effort to diminish and demean them is not unlike that of the antisemites who do the same to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.
Click to expand...

Coined or not, Palestinians are a people in today's world.  Why is it so important to diminish them?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were clueless that “palestinians” are Arabs? Their native Arabic language
> History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Not made up.
> 
> A descriptor of very real people that live there.  Real people.  Just like the Jews are.  Your persistent effort to diminish and demean them is not unlike that of the antisemites who do the same to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coined or not, Palestinians are a people in today's world.  Why is it so important to diminish them?
Click to expand...


“Palestinian” coined by the British for Jews. There’s no p in Arabic


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.



It doesn't matter one tiny bit where the name came from.  Coyote is right.  The Arab Palestinians, regardless of their origins, exist now.  They are a real people and they have every right to be there.  Same as the Jewish people.  

We can't support the rights of one people, while denying the rights of the other.  THAT works both ways.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jennifer Jajeh*


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. Not made up.
> 
> A descriptor of very real people that live there.  Real people.  Just like the Jews are.  Your persistent effort to diminish and demean them is not unlike that of the antisemites who do the same to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coined or not, Palestinians are a people in today's world.  Why is it so important to diminish them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Palestinian” coined by the British for Jews. There’s no p in Arabic
Click to expand...

Why do you feel the need to diminish Palestinians by playing semantical games?


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter one tiny bit where the name came from.  Coyote is right.  The Arab Palestinians, regardless of their origins, exist now.  They are a real people and they have every right to be there.  Same as the Jewish people.
> 
> We can't support the rights of one people, while denying the rights of the other.  THAT works both ways.
Click to expand...


“Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews

Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British. Made-up word
> 
> 
> 
> No. Not made up.
> 
> A descriptor of very real people that live there.  Real people.  Just like the Jews are.  Your persistent effort to diminish and demean them is not unlike that of the antisemites who do the same to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British coined the word “palestinian” originally for Jews in the British Mandate temporarily named British palestine. Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coined or not, Palestinians are a people in today's world.  Why is it so important to diminish them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Palestinian” coined by the British for Jews. There’s no p in Arabic
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you feel the need to diminish Palestinians by playing semantical games?
Click to expand...


Arabs laugh: Palestinians never existed


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> “Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews
> 
> Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms



Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews
> 
> Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.
Click to expand...


They’re simply Arabs


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews
> 
> Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They’re simply Arabs
Click to expand...



Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews
> 
> Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They’re simply Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?
Click to expand...


There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews
> 
> Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They’re simply Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
Click to expand...

How many European countries are there? Does that mean one or more do not have the right of self determination?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestine” originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel And “palestinian” originated as a British name for Jews
> 
> Palestine & palestinian are made-up Western terms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They’re simply Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many European countries are there? Does that mean one or more do not have the right of self determination?
Click to expand...


Um, Europe is comprised of different ethnicities.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?



Can I refute that the territory was ceded to some imaginary notion you happen to call "Palestine"?  Easily.  

I never tried to refute the idea that the residents who were formerly Ottoman citizens and the Jewish immigrants gained Palestinian citizenship.  And I never claimed anything different in my last post.  

My last post simply explained WHY those people didn't remain citizens of Palestine (now called Israel).  Did you want to try to refute that?


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians got Palestinian citizenship.
> 
> Can you refute that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I refute that the territory was ceded to some imaginary notion you happen to call "Palestine"?  Easily.
> 
> I never tried to refute the idea that the residents who were formerly Ottoman citizens and the Jewish immigrants gained Palestinian citizenship.  And I never claimed anything different in my last post.
> 
> My last post simply explained WHY those people didn't remain citizens of Palestine (now called Israel).  Did you want to try to refute that?
Click to expand...


Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel, later the temporary name of the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood

Now you know


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”



You agree that Arabs, including these particular Arabs, should have self-determination, just not in Israel, then?  Yes?


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You agree that Arabs, including these particular Arabs, should have self-determination, just not in Israel, then?  Yes?
Click to expand...


Pay attention: Arabs have 22 countries.


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel, later the temporary name of the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
> 
> Now you know



Joel, no offense, but I've been involved in debates on the Arab/Israeli conflict for a really really long time.  Not a lot new.  I like debating with people who come up with interesting and compelling arguments.  You posting this a gazillion times all over these boards is boring me.  (Which is why I haven't bothered to respond to you until now).  And its disruptive.


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You agree that Arabs, including these particular Arabs, should have self-determination, just not in Israel, then?  Yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay attention: Arabs have 22 countries.
Click to expand...


So what is your solution to the conflict, then?


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine originated as a Roman name for ancient Israel, later the temporary name of the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
> 
> Now you know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joel, no offense, but I've been involved in debates on the Arab/Israeli conflict for a really really long time.  Not a lot new.  I like debating with people who come up with interesting and compelling arguments.  You posting this a gazillion times all over these boards is boring me.  (Which is why I haven't bothered to respond to you until now).  And its disruptive.
Click to expand...


You’re unable to debate because you’re unknowledgeable of the subject matter and illogical.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pick another name for the people we are talking about then.  I don't care what silly name you choose, or how many drive-bys you do on different threads with your comments about the name.  Its irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They’re simply Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many European countries are there? Does that mean one or more do not have the right of self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europe is comprised of different ethnicities.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? They are all Europeans right?  Or are suggesting that there is no difference between the different Arab cultures?  Is there a difference between the Irish and English?  Americans and Canadians? Guatemalans and Peruvians?  Which ones should be told they aren't real, have no right to self determination or that there are a multitude of other countries they can go to?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They’re simply Arabs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many European countries are there? Does that mean one or more do not have the right of self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europe is comprised of different ethnicities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? They are all Europeans right?  Or are suggesting that there is no difference between the different Arab cultures?  Is there a difference between the Irish and English?  Americans and Canadians? Guatemalans and Peruvians?  Which ones should be told they aren't real, have no right to self determination or that there are a multitude of other countries they can go to?
Click to expand...


Arabs are one ethnic group, defined by their native Arabic language and Arab tribes originating in Arabia

There are absolutely no differences between Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc etc etc. They are all Arabs


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> You’re unable to debate because you’re unknowledgeable of the subject matter and illogical.



In my experience people who resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than discussing the actual subject matter lack the ability to  formulate a logical argument.  Further, people who continue to demonize one side, rather than presenting their arguments -- even when asked a direct and relatively simple question -- usually do so out of a deep seated illogical hatred.  We are constantly battling that here on this board.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is rather broad.  But let's call them Arabs, then.  Do you think these particular Arabs have rights to self-determination and sovereignty and to be able to control their own destiny?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many European countries are there? Does that mean one or more do not have the right of self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europe is comprised of different ethnicities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? They are all Europeans right?  Or are suggesting that there is no difference between the different Arab cultures?  Is there a difference between the Irish and English?  Americans and Canadians? Guatemalans and Peruvians?  Which ones should be told they aren't real, have no right to self determination or that there are a multitude of other countries they can go to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are one ethnic group, defined by their native Arabic language and Arab tribes originating in Arabia
> 
> There are absolutely no differences between Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc etc etc. They are all Arabs
Click to expand...

You might want to inform them then.


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re unable to debate because you’re unknowledgeable of the subject matter and illogical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience people who resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than discussing the actual subject matter lack the ability to  formulate a logical argument.  Further, people who continue to demonize one side, rather than presenting their arguments -- even when asked a direct and relatively simple question -- usually do so out of a deep seated illogical hatred.  We are constantly battling that here on this board.
Click to expand...


You have nothing of substance to add.


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> Arabs are one ethnic group, defined by their native Arabic language and Arab tribes originating in Arabia
> 
> There are absolutely no differences between Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc etc etc. They are all Arabs



Are you suggesting they should only be permitted to have one State?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are 22 Arab countries More than enough “self-determination”
> 
> 
> 
> How many European countries are there? Does that mean one or more do not have the right of self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europe is comprised of different ethnicities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? They are all Europeans right?  Or are suggesting that there is no difference between the different Arab cultures?  Is there a difference between the Irish and English?  Americans and Canadians? Guatemalans and Peruvians?  Which ones should be told they aren't real, have no right to self determination or that there are a multitude of other countries they can go to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are one ethnic group, defined by their native Arabic language and Arab tribes originating in Arabia
> 
> There are absolutely no differences between Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc etc etc. They are all Arabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You might want to inform them then.
Click to expand...


All Arabs originate from Arabia. Shouldn’t be difficult to grasp.


----------



## Shusha

I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1 

You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.


----------



## JoelT1

Shusha said:


> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.





Shusha said:


> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.



The conflict is theological not territorial: Islamic rejection of Jewish political independence ie Israel. The matter is way beyond your grasp,


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conflict is theological not territorial: Islamic rejection of Jewish political independence ie Israel. The matter is way beyond your grasp,
Click to expand...

How does that relate to the right of self determination?  Are you saying because some Muslims refuse to recognize Jewish right to self determination we should therefore reject the palestinian's right?  Rights are based on who we like or dislike?


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> The conflict is theological not territorial: Islamic rejection of Jewish political independence ie Israel. The matter is way beyond your grasp,



Which is startlingly funny given that I said that SAME thing to Tinmore about six pages ago.  Do you read my posts?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conflict is theological not territorial: Islamic rejection of Jewish political independence ie Israel. The matter is way beyond your grasp,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to the right of self determination?  Are you saying because some Muslims refuse to recognize Jewish right to self determination we should therefore reject the palestinian's right?  Rights are based on who we like or dislike?
Click to expand...


Evidently, you have a learning disability. There are no palestinians They’re just Arabs, absolutely no different than Arabs in the 22 Arab countries.

Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews, about 2000 years ago. There was no Arab population and Muslims did not exist. Arabs began calling themselves palestinians in the 1960s, The British, who first made up the word, first applied it to Jews until 1948,

You’re done


----------



## Shusha

Coyote 

Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.  

Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.  

This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## thetor

Shusha said:


> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.


It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR


----------



## thetor

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conflict is theological not territorial: Islamic rejection of Jewish political independence ie Israel. The matter is way beyond your grasp,
Click to expand...


No Jews lived in all arab?islamic States....a few still do...but most were expelled or left after 1948,some went to Israel,others to the US and Europe.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land


*
It's simple - when Israelis give lands to Arabs rockets and riots follow.*
Palestinians already got Jew free Gaza and the whole of Jordan (77% of the mandate).
Now, after trying to overthrow the govt in Jordan, they demand a Jew free Palestine.

See the pattern?


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs



From a Palestinian institute

Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile

History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf





*

*Shammar tribe*

The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrian population thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR



 Arabs massacred their Jewish neighbors in Palestine long before any Zionist ever shot a bullet.

Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:

_"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
*On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_

Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q.Harmony much?


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why this matters, JoelT1
> 
> You see, you actually have a really viable and compelling argument.  You just aren't able to put it into the form of a compelling argument because it gets all tangled up with your hate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The conflict is theological not territorial: Islamic rejection of Jewish political independence ie Israel. The matter is way beyond your grasp,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No Jews lived in all arab?islamic States....a few still do...but most were expelled or left after 1948,some went to Israel,others to the US and Europe.
Click to expand...


The condition of Jews in Palestine was worse than in any Arab Muslim country.
Added to the Arab massacres, there were Turks that made sure to bankrupt the weak Jewish communities, especially in Jerusalem.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

And here is a huge mistake in understanding.

*√ *  There is a huge difference between having "citizenship" and having "sovereignty."​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Under what authority does any Arab Palestinian Party claim sovereignty over any territory?
> 
> 
> 
> They are the legal citizens of Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Under the first, the Palestine Election Order, which set the language for the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925, was establishing the citizenship to the territory under the Mandate; which was arbitrary and set at the discretion of the Allied Powers.

Prior to the Election Order and the Citizenship Order, both authored by the British as the Mandatory Power.  The issue evolved first with the surrender and formal occupation 1918 (Armistice of Mudros) and remained in transition until the enactment of the Election Order (1922) and the Citizenship Order (1925).   The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
nationality.”  BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.  Thus, in the interim period between the the establishment of the Mandate and the release of the Mandate, the Palestinian Citizenship was governed by the Mandatory Power.

Like the Palestinians, Syria and Lebanon established there own laws concerning nationalities  --- which were enacted under the authority of the French High Commissioner (not so coincidentally in 1925).  

In this case → Citizenship and Nationality are established follow the Sovereignty; which the respective High Commissioners held in trust.  

*(DEFINITION)*  Sovereignty in the sense of contemporary public international law denotes the basic
international legal status of a state that is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the
governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign state or to foreign law
other than public international law.

*What is SOVEREIGNTY?*
The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent.
Law Dictionary: What is SOVEREIGNTY? *Definition of SOVEREIGNTY (Black's Law Dictionary)* ​
Citizenship is dependent on the rules of the Sovereign, not the other way around.  Citizenship is not a prerequisite for Territorial Sovereignty.  The Ottoman Emperor was not Arab, but was the sovereign over all the territory in the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

Joseph Farah: Myths of palestine and palestinians http://www.wnd.com/2000/10/1696/


----------



## JoelT1

Joseph Farah: Myths of palestine and palestinians http://www.wnd.com/2000/10/1696/


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *√ * There is a huge difference between having "citizenship" and having "sovereignty."


So, sovereignty is not for the citizens. It belongs to some assholes from Europe.

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.


So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Songs / poetry for the Death Cult.


----------



## Hollie

Songs / poetry for the Death Cult.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

You have twisted this for so long, you are beginning to believe it.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
Click to expand...

*(CASE EXAMPLES)*

I am an American Citizen in Ohio.   If I step over the border into Ontario, I am still an American Citizen.  In the first case, I am an American in Sovereign US Territory.  In the second case, I am an American in sovereign Canadian Territory.

On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia.  On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty.  On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty.  The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:

The inhabitants of the ceded territory, according to their choice, reserving their natural allegiance, may return to Russia within three years; but if they should prefer to remain in the ceded territory, they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion. The uncivilized tribes will be subject to such laws and regulations as the United States may, from time to time, adopt in regard to aboriginal tribes of that country.​
Article III was a variant of self-determination.

Citizenship follows Sovereignty; sovereignty does not follow citizenship.

*(COMMENT)*

At the end of the War, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1918) and the formality of cession of the territory by the Republic of Turkey (1924), the territory under Mandate was NOT the sovereign territory of any nation.  

•  ARTICLE I6.  Treaty of Lausanne  •

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. *

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries. ​Article 16 to the Treaty of Lausanne replaced Article 132 in the Treaty of Sevres:
http://www.hri.org/docs/sevres/part3.html
 •  ARTICLE 132  Treaty of Sevres  • 

Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.

*Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers,* in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
Final Point:  I did not say that the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers determined what powers the Mandatory would exercise over the territory.  It was always envisioned that the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, placed in the hands of the  Mandatory Power.

Some argue that Article 132 was more explicit and some favor Article 16.  In any event, the indigenous population (habitual residents) did not transfer with any authority --- none.  Even citizenship was determined at the pleasure of the Citizenship Order (and the Election Order before it) written by the Mandatory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.





Shusha said:


> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.



It is an interesting arguement and not one I had considered before.  I think though, there are a couple of points to consider.  One is that we now have years and generations who self identify as Palestinians.  All peoples start the peopleshood process somewhere whether ancient or relatively recent. The other is about ties.  Deep ties to the land itself.  For many Jews it's based on their ancient historical cultural heritage, for many Palestinians it is living there and passing the same parcels down through the generations.  I think self identification is important to the right of self determination.


----------



## Coyote

thetor said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.

I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.


----------



## Shusha

thetor said:


> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land


The trick, of course, is determining which land should be "their" land (territory under their own separate sovereignty).  



> the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally


The silly Khazar theory has been thoroughly debunked.  The Jewish people have survived a thousands-year-long Diaspora.  It included intermarriage, long years living away from their homeland, changes in their religion and culture.  But all Jews are Jews.  And the only people who have a right to decide who is and who is not a Jew are the Jewish people.

This is EXACTLY the same problem I have with JoelT1 and most of the other pro-Palestinian posters here -- they reject the very existence of the people on the other side of the conflict.



> The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????


I have no hate for the Palestinians. I am one of their strongest supporters on these boards.  I think they SHOULD have sovereignty over territory and self-determination.  The sooner the better for everyone.  (And no, they did not live in harmony for thousands of years.  Like in many places, the Jews suffered under Arab rule.  The problems occurred when the Jewish people asked for, and received international recognition for, a return to their homeland and a restoration of their sovereignty.  And yet, why shouldn't the Jewish people have that?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people



People have no sovereignty.  States have sovereignty.  In the absence of a State, such as the Mandate period, the people are administered by another sovereign.  But they have no sovereignty of their own until they develop it and meet the four criteria of a State (a people, a territory, a government and capacity to interact with other States).  The Arab Palestinians, as separate from the Jewish Palestinians, have not yet met this criteria.  They are getting there, though.  Slow as it is.  

People may have a right to self-determination in international law, but the process of turning that right into a sovereignty is not clear or complete (hence all the conflicts in the world over this process).  

But your assumption that sovereignty passed immediately from the Ottoman Empire to "Palestine" has no basis in law or reality.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Deep ties to the land itself ... for many Palestinians it is living there and passing the same parcels down through the generations.



I agree entirely with the rest of your post, so I just quoted this part.  I don't disagree with it, but I want to point out how problematic it is for those people's future.  

Its NOT actually a problem of sovereignty or self-determination -- its fundamentally a conflict between small subsistence farming and urbanization.  That way of life is inevitably changing.  The solutions aren't found in who has sovereignty over that territory -- they are found in how to balance agriculture and urbanization.  Does a State continue to protect those agricultural areas?  Should they marked off as farmland unavailable to building?  What do you do about the growth of those small villages and family farms?  How do you handle ownership?  Is the parcel to be kept whole, and each owner owns only a share of the production?  Is that ownership passed down collectively to all heirs?  Only those heirs who remain resident on the property?  Can the solutions be different, based on the wishes of each village or collection of farms?  These problems are difficult, but not unsolvable. 


However, that said, the Arab Palestinians are USING this conflict between agriculture and urbanization in order to attempt to further their political cause.  They are claiming land that traditionally would not have been "theirs" as "theirs" and labeling the land further as "(Arab) Palestinian land".


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *√ * There is a huge difference between having "citizenship" and having "sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> So, sovereignty is not for the citizens. It belongs to some assholes from Europe.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Jesus and his followers were European? LOL


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
Click to expand...


Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British who made up the word. Britain temporarily called the British Mandate “palestine” which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Long after Jews became Israelis, Arabs, looking around for something to call themselves, adopted the bogus palestinian identity

Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews, referring to Philistines who were Greek. Arabs did not populate Israel until 500+ years later


----------



## abi

JoelT1 said:


> Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British who made up the word.





JoelT1 said:


> Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> You have twisted this for so long, you are beginning to believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(CASE EXAMPLES)*
> 
> I am an American Citizen in Ohio.   If I step over the border into Ontario, I am still an American Citizen.  In the first case, I am an American in Sovereign US Territory.  In the second case, I am an American in sovereign Canadian Territory.
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia.  On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty.  On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty.  The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> The inhabitants of the ceded territory, according to their choice, reserving their natural allegiance, may return to Russia within three years; but if they should prefer to remain in the ceded territory, they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion. The uncivilized tribes will be subject to such laws and regulations as the United States may, from time to time, adopt in regard to aboriginal tribes of that country.​
> Article III was a variant of self-determination.
> 
> Citizenship follows Sovereignty; sovereignty does not follow citizenship.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the end of the War, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1918) and the formality of cession of the territory by the Republic of Turkey (1924), the territory under Mandate was NOT the sovereign territory of any nation.
> 
> •  ARTICLE I6.  Treaty of Lausanne  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. *
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​Article 16 to the Treaty of Lausanne replaced Article 132 in the Treaty of Sevres:
> •  ARTICLE 132  Treaty of Sevres  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> *Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers,* in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> Final Point:  I did not say that the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers determined what powers the Mandatory would exercise over the territory.  It was always envisioned that the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, placed in the hands of the  Mandatory Power.
> 
> Some argue that Article 132 was more explicit and some favor Article 16.  In any event, the indigenous population (habitual residents) did not transfer with any authority --- none.  Even citizenship was determined at the pleasure of the Citizenship Order (and the Election Order before it) written by the Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia. On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty. On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty. The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:


In some ways these are different and in some ways they are the same. The territory was ceded to another state by purchase. Following international law, the citizens of the predecessor state would become the citizens of the successor state. These citizens would still have sovereignty, however it was to be shared with the other citizens of the state.


RoccoR said:


> they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion.


The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.

_Guided​_by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> You have twisted this for so long, you are beginning to believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(CASE EXAMPLES)*
> 
> I am an American Citizen in Ohio.   If I step over the border into Ontario, I am still an American Citizen.  In the first case, I am an American in Sovereign US Territory.  In the second case, I am an American in sovereign Canadian Territory.
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia.  On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty.  On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty.  The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> The inhabitants of the ceded territory, according to their choice, reserving their natural allegiance, may return to Russia within three years; but if they should prefer to remain in the ceded territory, they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion. The uncivilized tribes will be subject to such laws and regulations as the United States may, from time to time, adopt in regard to aboriginal tribes of that country.​
> Article III was a variant of self-determination.
> 
> Citizenship follows Sovereignty; sovereignty does not follow citizenship.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the end of the War, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1918) and the formality of cession of the territory by the Republic of Turkey (1924), the territory under Mandate was NOT the sovereign territory of any nation.
> 
> •  ARTICLE I6.  Treaty of Lausanne  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. *
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​Article 16 to the Treaty of Lausanne replaced Article 132 in the Treaty of Sevres:
> •  ARTICLE 132  Treaty of Sevres  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> *Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers,* in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> Final Point:  I did not say that the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers determined what powers the Mandatory would exercise over the territory.  It was always envisioned that the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, placed in the hands of the  Mandatory Power.
> 
> Some argue that Article 132 was more explicit and some favor Article 16.  In any event, the indigenous population (habitual residents) did not transfer with any authority --- none.  Even citizenship was determined at the pleasure of the Citizenship Order (and the Election Order before it) written by the Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia. On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty. On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty. The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In some ways these are different and in some ways they are the same. The territory was ceded to another state by purchase. Following international law, the citizens of the predecessor state would become the citizens of the successor state. These citizens would still have sovereignty, however it was to be shared with the other citizens of the state.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.
> 
> _Guided_
> by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
Click to expand...


Um, there is no palestinian people. Palestine referred to Philistines who were Greek invaders to ancient Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Leaked: The six clauses of the Fatah-Hamas deal


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> You have twisted this for so long, you are beginning to believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(CASE EXAMPLES)*
> 
> I am an American Citizen in Ohio.   If I step over the border into Ontario, I am still an American Citizen.  In the first case, I am an American in Sovereign US Territory.  In the second case, I am an American in sovereign Canadian Territory.
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia.  On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty.  On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty.  The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> The inhabitants of the ceded territory, according to their choice, reserving their natural allegiance, may return to Russia within three years; but if they should prefer to remain in the ceded territory, they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion. The uncivilized tribes will be subject to such laws and regulations as the United States may, from time to time, adopt in regard to aboriginal tribes of that country.​
> Article III was a variant of self-determination.
> 
> Citizenship follows Sovereignty; sovereignty does not follow citizenship.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the end of the War, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1918) and the formality of cession of the territory by the Republic of Turkey (1924), the territory under Mandate was NOT the sovereign territory of any nation.
> 
> •  ARTICLE I6.  Treaty of Lausanne  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. *
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​Article 16 to the Treaty of Lausanne replaced Article 132 in the Treaty of Sevres:
> •  ARTICLE 132  Treaty of Sevres  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> *Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers,* in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> Final Point:  I did not say that the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers determined what powers the Mandatory would exercise over the territory.  It was always envisioned that the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, placed in the hands of the  Mandatory Power.
> 
> Some argue that Article 132 was more explicit and some favor Article 16.  In any event, the indigenous population (habitual residents) did not transfer with any authority --- none.  Even citizenship was determined at the pleasure of the Citizenship Order (and the Election Order before it) written by the Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia. On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty. On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty. The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In some ways these are different and in some ways they are the same. The territory was ceded to another state by purchase. Following international law, the citizens of the predecessor state would become the citizens of the successor state. These citizens would still have sovereignty, however it was to be shared with the other citizens of the state.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.
> 
> _Guided_
> by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, there is no palestinian people. Palestine referred to Philistines who were Greek invaders to ancient Israel
Click to expand...

You and your Israeli talking points are a hoot.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> You have twisted this for so long, you are beginning to believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(CASE EXAMPLES)*
> 
> I am an American Citizen in Ohio.   If I step over the border into Ontario, I am still an American Citizen.  In the first case, I am an American in Sovereign US Territory.  In the second case, I am an American in sovereign Canadian Territory.
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia.  On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty.  On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty.  The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> The inhabitants of the ceded territory, according to their choice, reserving their natural allegiance, may return to Russia within three years; but if they should prefer to remain in the ceded territory, they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion. The uncivilized tribes will be subject to such laws and regulations as the United States may, from time to time, adopt in regard to aboriginal tribes of that country.​
> Article III was a variant of self-determination.
> 
> Citizenship follows Sovereignty; sovereignty does not follow citizenship.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the end of the War, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1918) and the formality of cession of the territory by the Republic of Turkey (1924), the territory under Mandate was NOT the sovereign territory of any nation.
> 
> •  ARTICLE I6.  Treaty of Lausanne  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. *
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​Article 16 to the Treaty of Lausanne replaced Article 132 in the Treaty of Sevres:
> •  ARTICLE 132  Treaty of Sevres  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> *Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers,* in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> Final Point:  I did not say that the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers determined what powers the Mandatory would exercise over the territory.  It was always envisioned that the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, placed in the hands of the  Mandatory Power.
> 
> Some argue that Article 132 was more explicit and some favor Article 16.  In any event, the indigenous population (habitual residents) did not transfer with any authority --- none.  Even citizenship was determined at the pleasure of the Citizenship Order (and the Election Order before it) written by the Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia. On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty. On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty. The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In some ways these are different and in some ways they are the same. The territory was ceded to another state by purchase. Following international law, the citizens of the predecessor state would become the citizens of the successor state. These citizens would still have sovereignty, however it was to be shared with the other citizens of the state.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.
> 
> _Guided_
> by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, there is no palestinian people. Palestine referred to Philistines who were Greek invaders to ancient Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You and your Israeli talking points are a hoot.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> You have twisted this for so long, you are beginning to believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The customary international law of the time was that the “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of
> nationality.” BUT, there was no sovereignty under the trusteeship of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(CASE EXAMPLES)*
> 
> I am an American Citizen in Ohio.   If I step over the border into Ontario, I am still an American Citizen.  In the first case, I am an American in Sovereign US Territory.  In the second case, I am an American in sovereign Canadian Territory.
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia.  On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty.  On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty.  The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> The inhabitants of the ceded territory, according to their choice, reserving their natural allegiance, may return to Russia within three years; but if they should prefer to remain in the ceded territory, they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion. The uncivilized tribes will be subject to such laws and regulations as the United States may, from time to time, adopt in regard to aboriginal tribes of that country.​
> Article III was a variant of self-determination.
> 
> Citizenship follows Sovereignty; sovereignty does not follow citizenship.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the end of the War, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1918) and the formality of cession of the territory by the Republic of Turkey (1924), the territory under Mandate was NOT the sovereign territory of any nation.
> 
> •  ARTICLE I6.  Treaty of Lausanne  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. *
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​Article 16 to the Treaty of Lausanne replaced Article 132 in the Treaty of Sevres:
> •  ARTICLE 132  Treaty of Sevres  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> *Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers,* in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> Final Point:  I did not say that the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers determined what powers the Mandatory would exercise over the territory.  It was always envisioned that the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, placed in the hands of the  Mandatory Power.
> 
> Some argue that Article 132 was more explicit and some favor Article 16.  In any event, the indigenous population (habitual residents) did not transfer with any authority --- none.  Even citizenship was determined at the pleasure of the Citizenship Order (and the Election Order before it) written by the Mandatory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On March 30th. 1867, the US purchased the Alaskan Territory from Russia. On March 30, the people of Alaska were Russian under Russian Sovereignty. On April 1st, the Territory was under US Sovereignty. The Treaty of Cessions (Article IIII) stipulated that:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In some ways these are different and in some ways they are the same. The territory was ceded to another state by purchase. Following international law, the citizens of the predecessor state would become the citizens of the successor state. These citizens would still have sovereignty, however it was to be shared with the other citizens of the state.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> they, with the exception of uncivilized native tribes, shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States, and shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.
> 
> _Guided_
> by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, there is no palestinian people. Palestine referred to Philistines who were Greek invaders to ancient Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You and your Israeli talking points are a hoot.
Click to expand...


Arabs laugh: When were there any palestinians? LOL!


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Snapshots: Where's the Coverage of Torture in Gaza Prisons?


----------



## JoelT1

Arab-American journalist Joseph Farah: Palestinians Do Not Exist

http://www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/


----------



## thetor

Coyote said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
Click to expand...

Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)

In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here

By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

Remember that Turkey renounced all rights and title to the territories → with the future of these territories being settled → or to be settled → by the parties concerned.

The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.  At the time of the Treaty of Lausanne, there were no borders to and political territorial entity called "Palestine."



P F Tinmore said:


> The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.
> 
> _Guided_
> by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​


*(COMMENT)*

Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.

More importantly is that the rights of one cannot interfere with the right of another.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not only have the rights of these Palestinian refugees been ignored or dismissed for 65 years, but the piratical Jews extend a paradoxical "right of return" to Jews from around the world who have never set foot in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have created quite a paradox for yourself here.  If the objective condition for holding the "right of return" is whether or not one has set foot in the territory -- then neither the Jewish people nor the Palestinian "refugees" have a right of return absent of that condition.  If one is being objective, either they are both restricted by that condition, or neither is.  You can't impose a condition on the one group and not on the other without revealing your hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such right of return in international law nor the UN Charter It is a myth
> 
> Furthermore, Arabs, who attacked Israel and fled or were displaced, have no moral right to return And for most so-called “palestinians” who are merely Arabs from various Arab countries identifying as such, there is nothing to return to except the Arab countries of origin
Click to expand...



LOL!!!!  typically you have no faint clue as to what you spout...the Arab/Palestinian population of historic Palestine had residency rights tracing back 13--count em fool---centuries, whereas the Euro-trash Jews who usurped their residency rights had zero legal authority...keep lying dummy


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
Click to expand...


What a boring racist rant.

But it's very important that the pro-Palestinian side get this shit about RACE and BLOOD PURITY out of their chest, in each and every discussion.

*Now tell us, what is the meaning of 'Semitic', where the term originated and how old is it?*

BTW about a 100 years before any Arab identified as 'Palestinian', Jews in Europe were already mentioned as 'Palestinians among us', in a similar racist rant by Emmanuel Kant.


----------



## JoelT1

Israel is a state for almost three quarters of a century. Everything else is nonsense. Move on, people


----------



## thetor

rylah said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a boring racist rant.
> 
> But it's very important that the pro-Palestinian side get this shit about RACE and BLOOD PURITY out of their chest, in each and every discussion.
> 
> *Now tell us, what is the meaning of 'Semitic', where the term originated and how old is it?*
> 
> BTW about a 100 before any Arab as 'Palestinian', Jews in Europe were already mentioned as 'Palestinians among us', in a similar racist rant by Emmanuel Kant.
Click to expand...

Stop being a Bore,as you must realize Ry...I am Superior to you....and it is I that ask the questions(just teasing you,actually I like your posts,I reckon you could be quite interesting)


----------



## thetor

JoelT1 said:


> Israel is a state for almost three quarters of a century. Everything else is nonsense. Move on, people


And they were nothing for over 2000 years,They moved on alright an Stole Land That Was Not Theirs To Take


----------



## thetor

You seem a S


RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Remember that Turkey renounced all rights and title to the territories → with the future of these territories being settled → or to be settled → by the parties concerned.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.  At the time of the Treaty of Lausanne, there were no borders to and political territorial entity called "Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that Turkey did not cede territory to other existing states. It ceded territory to new states by treaty. States that never existed. Those new states had territory defined by international borders and those people became citizens of their respective states.
> 
> _Guided_
> by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> More importantly is that the rights of one cannot interfere with the right of another.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

m


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> ]I am Superior to you....and it is I that ask the questions



You just summed up the WHOLE of the Arab non - argument.
This is the Palestinians.

btw - You never answer my questions, You just dodge them with childish slogans.
Are You capable of holding a straight line without resorting to racist rants?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.


Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.

You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> More importantly is that the rights of one cannot interfere with the right of another.


I will remember you said that.


----------



## Coyote

I never really thought about


Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have no sovereignty.  States have sovereignty.  In the absence of a State, such as the Mandate period, the people are administered by another sovereign.  But they have no sovereignty of their own until they develop it and meet the four criteria of a State (a people, a territory, a government and capacity to interact with other States).  The Arab Palestinians, as separate from the Jewish Palestinians, have not yet met this criteria.  They are getting there, though.  Slow as it is.
> 
> People may have a right to self-determination in international law, but the process of turning that right into a sovereignty is not clear or complete (hence all the conflicts in the world over this process).
> 
> But your assumption that sovereignty passed immediately from the Ottoman Empire to "Palestine" has no basis in law or reality.
Click to expand...

I never really thought about the distinction between sovereignty and self determination before, but that makes sense. Sovereignty comes from the state and ends when the state ends.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.


Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.

Why are you trying to confuse the issue?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> I never really thought about
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that people follow the sovereignty but the sovereignty vanished? The Mandate was an administration. It had no sovereignty. The sovereignty stayed with the people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have no sovereignty.  States have sovereignty.  In the absence of a State, such as the Mandate period, the people are administered by another sovereign.  But they have no sovereignty of their own until they develop it and meet the four criteria of a State (a people, a territory, a government and capacity to interact with other States).  The Arab Palestinians, as separate from the Jewish Palestinians, have not yet met this criteria.  They are getting there, though.  Slow as it is.
> 
> People may have a right to self-determination in international law, but the process of turning that right into a sovereignty is not clear or complete (hence all the conflicts in the world over this process).
> 
> But your assumption that sovereignty passed immediately from the Ottoman Empire to "Palestine" has no basis in law or reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never really thought about the distinction between sovereignty and self determination before, but that makes sense. Sovereignty comes from the state and ends when the state ends.
Click to expand...

The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.

Who has the authority to end a state?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Coffee in Palestine Nabi Saleh Through the lens

*


----------



## Coyote

thetor said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
Click to expand...


I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...

On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.  

jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:



Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here's an example of how even the Palestinian citizens of the west can be confused by mainstream media.
She barely lived in Palestine, most of her life was in the west, and she's out of touch of the facts on the ground. Especially about the deep rooted tribalism in the Arab society, in Palestine and elsewhere.

However, she said :* "The Arab spring is the voice of the 1st Intifada". *
And I'm not sure if she really understood the "Arab social justice" propaganda through the glasses of Western values. But she was correct, in a sense, because the results were the same.

*Tribes and Tribalism in the Arab Spring*

Q. Who remembers the outcomes of the Arab spring movement, after the Youth's outrage calmed, and they had ZERO REAL SOLUTIONS to propose? What happened?
Muslim Brotherhood filled the vacuum. With a detailed plan.
And the Arab Spring movement begged the military to take control from the Islamists.

Her main mistake- in forgetting that Intifada's were inspired and backed up by the Palestinian govt., while the Arab Spring was mainly sold by Al-Jazeera and instigators in the social media.
But the result was the same - Palestinian Arabs chose tribalism over central government.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
Click to expand...

The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.

So, who is the initial aggressor?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
Click to expand...

You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.

There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.

Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.

Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.

The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves. 
That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.

You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
You do not specify what agreement that was.
Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.

The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.

It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc

So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.

Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.

And you cannot see where the issue is.

You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.

The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.

Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.

And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.

Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.

Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.

You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Thank you for reminding me to call out all the hate, and not just one side's.
> 
> Here's the compelling argument which I think can be found here.  Part of self-determination is the right to self-identification.  Many Arab Palestinians identify strongly with both Jordanians and Syrians, and claim that all three are the same people.  In fact, many argue that the current problems of those peoples are a direct result of the artificial separation of what really is ONE people.
> 
> This opens up the potential for a number of different solutions to the Arab Palestinians plight.  We are not just restricted to a tiny piece of land adjoining Israel if we think in this way.  There are other options.  And it might provide all sorts of benefits to Arabs in all three/four places.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
Click to expand...


That's a fairytail

Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?


----------



## Coyote

Apples and oranges.


rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
Click to expand...


The pogroms are one issue, this is another.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
Click to expand...

Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?

The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.


----------



## JoelT1

Um, “palestinians” are Arabs. 22 Arab countries exist More than ample self-determination

Jews were originally called “palestinians” in the British Mandate It’s a bogus name


Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...





Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...


----------



## JoelT1

Multiple Arab militaries attacked the nascent state of Israel in 1947.

Now you know



Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...

Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.

It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.

Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.

One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.

To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.

Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.

Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.

Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
Click to expand...


It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.

Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.

Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?


----------



## JoelT1

Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”

Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination  






Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any contest is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
Click to expand...


----------



## JoelT1

Most Israeli Jews today are indigenous to Israel and the Middle East or descendants of native Jews. 

Arabs are indigenous to (Saudi) Arabia,




rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
> Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
> Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.
> 
> Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.
> 
> Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
> Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
> Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.
> 
> Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.
> 
> Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

JoelT1 said:


> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination




Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.

But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with a pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.


----------



## JoelT1

Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine

And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate

So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination




rylah said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
Click to expand...


----------



## JoelT1

Here’s a brief history lesson: When Jordan seized Judea and Samaria and Egypt seized Gaza in the ‘48 War, they did not create a “palestinian” state because there was no such people.



Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

JoelT1 said:


> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Yes, I'm one of those descendants of Palestinian Jews.

Actually if You want to understand what 'Palestinian' really meant - You should look into marriage patterns of the community within the geographic area.
The only people who were really bonded and were driven to erase all differences, as the cause of staying in the land - were the Palestinian Jews through their marriage, in, an to the land.

While Jews who came from Europe, Morocco and Yemen marry each other, Arabs from Ramallah don't usually marry those in Gaza or Hebron due to tribal connection. And they call it a society.

You can find many interesting stuff about Palestinian society, by looking into Arab sources using Google translate.


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm one of those descendants of Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Actually if You want to understand what 'Palestinian' really meant - You should look into marriage patterns of the community within the geographic area.
> The only people who were really bonded and were driven to erase all differences, as the cause of staying in the land - were the Palestinian Jews through their marriage, in, an to the land.
> 
> While Jews who came from Europe, Morocco and Yemen marry each other, Arabs from Ramallah don't usually marry those in Gaza or Hebron due to tribal connection. And they call it a society.
> 
> You can find many interesting stuff about Palestinian society, by looking into Arab sources using Google translate.
Click to expand...


Winston Churchill was, in effect, Secretary of State of the British Mandate, He stated that Arabs flooded in; they were not an established population  ⤵️


----------



## JoelT1

Actually there are no histories of palestine and palestinians written in Arabic before the 20th century. 



rylah said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm one of those descendants of Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Actually if You want to understand what 'Palestinian' really meant - You should look into marriage patterns of the community within the geographic area.
> The only people who were really bonded and were driven to erase all differences, as the cause of staying in the land - were the Palestinian Jews through their marriage, in, an to the land.
> 
> While Jews who came from Europe, Morocco and Yemen marry each other, Arabs from Ramallah don't usually marry those in Gaza or Hebron due to tribal connection. And they call it a society.
> 
> You can find many interesting stuff about Palestinian society, by looking into Arab sources using Google translate.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Saleh Arouri and Hamas view the "reconciliation" agreement as Fatah moving closer to Hamas and not the other way around....The "reconciliation" agreement requires from Hamas only to dissolve its shadow government in the Gaza Strip. Hamas is not being asked to recognize Israel's right to exist, or renounce terrorism or lay down its arms. Hamas is not being asked to change its anti-Semitic charter, which openly calls for the elimination not only of Israel but of Jews: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). (Hamas Charter, Article 7)


The "reconciliation" agreement is clearly a Fatah submission to Hamas and not vice versa. In his accord with Hamas, Abbas has signed onto Hamas's version of violent "resistance" against Israel and Jews. This is the real meaning of this Abbas-Hamas deal.
(full article online)

What is Really Uniting the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*10 Years of the Palestine Festival of Literature*

**


----------



## thetor

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all so simple...Just give the Palestinians their land........and Joe The Palestinians are not the same as other Arabs as they are a Semitic People like some Jews are........But not all Jews of course(the European Zionist Type who are converts to Judiaism but are other peoples from central asia originally)The Question I ask Shusha is,why do you Hate the cousins of the Jews,the Palestinians,what have they ever done to real Jews,who they lived WITH,... IN harmony FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS??????obviously that changed after 1948...due to Terrorism,Murder and mayhem by the Jews 1948 onwards.../TOR
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
Click to expand...

Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
Click to expand...

No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite reports that Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have agreed to work together, a Fatah Central Committee meeting held today did not remove the restrictions that Mahmoud Abbas' PA  has placed on Gaza.

This includes electricity, fuel, medicines, and other essentials.

For some reason, human rights groups are silent.

Despite "unity," Fatah keeps restrictions on Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
Click to expand...


Jews had always returned to their homeland.  Israel.
Even more in the 19th century.
From 1850 on, since the Ottomans began to sell their land, the Jews began, like some Arabs and others, to buy land. That was even before the advent of Theodore Herzl and the idea of returning to the land for good and be sovereign, once again, over it - in time.

What year did the Irgun and Stern Gang start with their aggression?
It was not in 1892.  It was not in 1920 or 1921 or in 1929.

Seriously, what year did those groups get together and start using any aggression on the Arabs, or the British, and what events led to these groups to come together and act as they did?
Was it to expel the Arabs, as many as they were, or was it to protect themselves against any more Arab aggression, and British inadequate behavior?

There was a plan, just in case, and that was way after endless violent attacks by the Arabs.  If it got to it.  But it never did.
If you may recall in 1967 Israel got Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter back from Jordan.
Were the Arabs expelled?  No.

Let us go back to 1920 to 1948.
1920 - Jews expelled from Gaza
1925 - Jews expelled from TranJordan
1929 - Jews expelled from Hebron (oldest Jewish community of 3800 years)
1948  -  Jews are expelled from Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem ( no other quarter was ethnically cleansed)


Please, tell me now, what is more important:

1) Planning a expulsion of a people because they are continuously threatening the life of your people and all others who stayed in Israel?

or

2) The actual actions of a group against the other where they managed to constantly ethnically cleanse the other group from various areas of their ancient homeland in a period of 28 years?

Are there Arabs living in Israel ?  Yes, about 2 Million of them.

Are there any Jews living in Gaza or Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.  Or Jordan?  No

So, I will ask you again.

What is it that you have been reading, or watching, that has led you to believe that Israel or the Jewish people were about to keep all of the mandate for Palestine to themselves, when they are the ones who were expelled from various areas of that Mandate, and the Arab leaders continue to have written in their charters that they mean to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews (ethnic cleansing by any other words)

If most Arabs never owned any land, and they merely worked on it, or only arrived on the land in the 20th century, why is it that they are considered the owners of the land if they never bought any from the
absentee owners, which were usually wealthy Arabs, or other Muslims?

There are Arabs who did buy land from the Ottomans, or absentee owners and have shown the papers in Israeli court and gotten their land back.

Even those who have no papers and just say that the land is theirs are getting that land given to them by the Israeli courts, despite the fact that the Jews have the title to the land in question. It has become, make the Arabs happy and the Jews, to heck with them in the courts in Israel.  How about that for justice.

Israel is following exactly how the Ottoman and British land laws were.  Nothing has been changed. If Arabs, or Druze, or Bedouins, or Jews can show the title to their land, that they bought it, then they will have that land, or home, or building. 
It is not one sided.

Do you have any other questions, Coyote, feel free to bring them up.


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that include Arabs and other peoples who have been in that area since ancient times.
> 
> I'm not sure why you single out the "European Zionist Type" as if they are a separate species.  They aren't.  All peoples who where split in migrations or overrun in conquests would most likely would have to intermarry to survive.  What defines them as a people though is the continuity of a culture more then genetics.  If you are going to attempt to split them that way then you have to recognize the same in the Palestinians who's population includes relatively recent immigrants from other Arab areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
Click to expand...


I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.

Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.

1517 Safed
1660 Tiberias
1660 Safed
1834 Safed Pogrom
1834 - Hebron Pogrom
1840- Damascus
1850 - Aleppo
1860 -Damascus

Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
Click to expand...

I am curious:
With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
(Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)

Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.

Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?


----------



## thetor

I did not say there were no disputes


rylah said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
Click to expand...

,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy


----------



## Indeependent

thetor said:


> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
Click to expand...

Things were always good between Jews and Arabs when Jews paid their tax.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
Click to expand...

Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
Click to expand...

You did:

"No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to the entire mandate but to the area Israel finally claimed for its state.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> 
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't referring to the entire mandate but to the area Israel finally claimed for its state.
Click to expand...

And when did it happen and how?  What was going on at the time?
Who planned for the Arabs to leave and for what reason and for how long?


----------



## Indeependent

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> 
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't referring to the entire mandate but to the area Israel finally claimed for its state.
Click to expand...

If you knew the Biblical size of Israel, you'd have a heart attack.
It's 4 times more then the current size.


----------



## rylah

thetor said:


> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
Click to expand...


Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.

When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem. The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.

Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.

Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?  

Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
*
*Q. How about paying protection to both Ottomans, then an extra to their appointed Arab sheikhs in Syria-Palestine for 500 years?*


----------



## JoelT1

Indeependent said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Things were always good between Jews and Arabs when Jews paid their tax.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I and all other Jews have believed that the Arabs, call them what one wishes, who lived in the region of Palestine do have the right to self determination.
> 
> It has never been the Jews who have opposed a separate State for the Arabs, it has been the Arab Leaders.
> Jews did not get to agree with losing 78% of their homeland, but they did not go around attacking the Hashemites to force them to give it up.
> 
> Saying the Jews have been aggressive towards Palestinians without any context is, to me, attempting to give the Arabs the right to attack Jews.
> 
> One cannot divorce the history of the conflict by cutting off 28 years of total aggression against the Jews by the Arabs, which is what so many do.
> 
> To them, the history of the region starts in 1948 and Israel is the aggressor for "daring" to declare Independence as a State.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the Peel report of partitioning the Mandate in 1937 between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, they did.
> 
> Did the Jews accept the UN Partition of what was left of the Mandate
> between Jews and Arabs?  Yes, it did.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is it that Arabs continue to accuse Jews of, unless one looks at the very first riot against Jews in 1920, to the wars against Israel, to the proposed partitions, and proposed Peace treaties, and tell me that the Arab Leaders are actually wanting to allow a Jewish sovereign State "anywhere" on the ancient Jewish Homeland, if they can really help it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
Click to expand...


Multiple Arab armies attacked Israel in 1947 in an attempt to drive the Jews into the Sea. This is a matter of history


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.
> 
> When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem.
> The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.
> 
> Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?
> 
> Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
> *
Click to expand...


Seriously ignorant people. Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel and the Middle East


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists,They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES...As most derive from the Askenarzi sic Jews but more importantly,they are only JEWS BY CONVERSION...they have NO link to Palestine at all,because they are a hotch pot of mainly central Asians and others,just converts to Judaism....Only the Shepardic Jews and the Palestinians have direct link to Abraham and both are Semitic People,...Most Zionists and Askanazi Jews are not SEMITIC at all,yet the cry that anyone who challenge them,are Anti-Semetic (it is all crap,they use it as a defence against critique charged against them and their horrible cult)
> 
> In fact,Israel is no longer a true Semitic majority any more as none Semetics outnumber Semetic Jews...something often over looked here
> 
> By the way Zionists have a Culture of sorts,but dispite all their hollering it is Not the Culture of Real Jews,the Ultras and the Secular Jews...You should Stop trying to make out that Israel is a harmonious Country and that all Jews who live there are in harmony...They are not.That is why many Russian Jews have left Israel for Europe and America....these educated Jews see Israel in a different light to the hordes that invaded Palestine,from 1920 onwards,No Israel is just not for them,they have been to the mountain top and don't like the view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
Click to expand...




Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't referring to the entire mandate but to the area Israel finally claimed for its state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you knew the Biblical size of Israel, you'd have a heart attack.
> It's 4 times more then the current size.
Click to expand...


Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East, mostly undeveloped. Still, not enough!


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*



I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.  

If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
Click to expand...

And here, we are speaking of those acts against King David Hotel, etc "before" the British finally were forced to leave the Mandate and Israel declared Independence.
And we must not forget the endless sniper shootings on Israeli civilians after Jordan took over the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.

Or from the Golan Heights.


----------



## thetor

Indeependent said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Things were always good between Jews and Arabs when Jews paid their tax.
Click to expand...

Goodness Indeependent....I must say you have excellent mirth


----------



## thetor

JoelT1 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> 
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.
> 
> When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem.
> The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.
> 
> Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?
> 
> Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously ignorant people. Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel and the Middle East
Click to expand...

They certainly are NOT,they are the REVERSE of that


----------



## thetor

JoelT1 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't referring to the entire mandate but to the area Israel finally claimed for its state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you knew the Biblical size of Israel, you'd have a heart attack.
> It's 4 times more then the current size.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East, mostly undeveloped. Still, not enough!
Click to expand...

You miss the point...COMPLETELY


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.


I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.

Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.


----------



## Sixties Fan

thetor said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.
> 
> When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem.
> The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.
> 
> Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?
> 
> Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously ignorant people. Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel and the Middle East
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They certainly are NOT,they are the REVERSE of that
Click to expand...

And of course you have a degree in genetics, or are an expert on this or that, or something else, with a Pulizer Prize and a Nobel Prize  to boot.

The absolute and total refusal to give Jews their due.

MOST of them did go into Europe and other areas of the world, from the time of the First Temple.  It does not make them Germans if they lived in Germany, or Italians if the lived in Rome, and then Italy as witnessed by all the descendants of Jews who either went with Caesar to Rome, or later on in 70 CE after the destruction of the Second Temple.

You cannot and never will, be able to prove that the indigenous people of the land of Israel, the Jews, are not the indigenous people of the land of Israel.

You do not have the knowledge, the tools or anything else which would help you prove such a statement.

All you have is the word of the Arabs, who are invaders to the land since the 7th century and even have acknowledged that the Land of Israel does belong to the Jews.

It was an Arab, in the 7th Century, who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem, while the Christians before them had done as the Romans had done.  Keep the Jews out of Jerusalem to insult them.

There are good Muslims, there are bad Muslims.  The good ones have always wanted to live in peace with the Jews, on the ancient Jewish Homeland.
The bad ones, they like to humiliate, kick, beat, steal, worse even ( and they have done all of those things in the examples Rylah gave and which neither you, nor the other ones care about, because it is about Jews, any Jews getting the worse.

The truth about the Jewish people is not dependent on people like you or anyone else who thinks like you.

It is exactly because of this kind of thinking that Herzl and others realized that there was only one thing to do.
Return to their homeland and become sovereign over part of it.

It is simple.  The simplest thing in the world.

When any place treats one badly, or worse,  one tends to go back home.  Jews had been doing that for centuries, not just in the 19th, or 20th century.  Home is home.  Home for the Jews is Israel.

End of story.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.
> 
> Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.
Click to expand...

The Arabs were "shoved aside" to where?
What lands did they lose in 1892?
What lands did they lose in 1920?
In 1921?
In 1929?
In 1936 to 1939?

They never had a country and you keep creating one out of thin air.

You are full of crap, as always.

You go ahead.  You address the problems of all of those Arab leaders refusing from 1920 on to live in peace with the indigenous Jews of the land of Israel.

You deal with them starting riots and wars and expelling the Jews from their homes and lands from 1920 to 1948.  And then coming back for more, only they lost and Muslims do not like to lose.

Deal with Arab colonialism since the 7th century which extends from Syria, Mesopotamia, Phonecia, Israel, North Africa, Spain, etc.

Go ahead, tin.  DEAL WITH THAT !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.
> 
> Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs were "shoved aside" to where?
> What lands did they lose in 1892?
> What lands did they lose in 1920?
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> They never had a country and you keep creating one out of thin air.
> 
> You are full of crap, as always.
> 
> You go ahead.  You address the problems of all of those Arab leaders refusing from 1920 on to live in peace with the indigenous Jews of the land of Israel.
> 
> You deal with them starting riots and wars and expelling the Jews from their homes and lands from 1920 to 1948.  And then coming back from more, only they lost and Muslims do not like to lose.
> 
> Deal with Arab colonialism since the 7th century which extends from Syria, Mesopotamia, Phonecia, Israel, North Africa, Spain, etc.
> 
> Go ahead, tin.  DEAL WITH THAT !
Click to expand...

Wow, you are well versed in Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.
> 
> Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs were "shoved aside" to where?
> What lands did they lose in 1892?
> What lands did they lose in 1920?
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> They never had a country and you keep creating one out of thin air.
> 
> You are full of crap, as always.
> 
> You go ahead.  You address the problems of all of those Arab leaders refusing from 1920 on to live in peace with the indigenous Jews of the land of Israel.
> 
> You deal with them starting riots and wars and expelling the Jews from their homes and lands from 1920 to 1948.  And then coming back from more, only they lost and Muslims do not like to lose.
> 
> Deal with Arab colonialism since the 7th century which extends from Syria, Mesopotamia, Phonecia, Israel, North Africa, Spain, etc.
> 
> Go ahead, tin.  DEAL WITH THAT !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are well versed in Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...

The bullshit is all in your very uneducated and very anti Jewish head


And as always, you cannot DEAL WITH IT,  LOL


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.
> 
> Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs were "shoved aside" to where?
> What lands did they lose in 1892?
> What lands did they lose in 1920?
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> They never had a country and you keep creating one out of thin air.
> 
> You are full of crap, as always.
> 
> You go ahead.  You address the problems of all of those Arab leaders refusing from 1920 on to live in peace with the indigenous Jews of the land of Israel.
> 
> You deal with them starting riots and wars and expelling the Jews from their homes and lands from 1920 to 1948.  And then coming back from more, only they lost and Muslims do not like to lose.
> 
> Deal with Arab colonialism since the 7th century which extends from Syria, Mesopotamia, Phonecia, Israel, North Africa, Spain, etc.
> 
> Go ahead, tin.  DEAL WITH THAT !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are well versed in Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bullshit is all in your very uneducated and very anti Jewish head
> 
> 
> And as always, you cannot DEAL WITH IT,  LOL
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?


Why did those happen?

Oh, that's right, Israeli bullshit will not tell you that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.
> 
> Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs were "shoved aside" to where?
> What lands did they lose in 1892?
> What lands did they lose in 1920?
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> They never had a country and you keep creating one out of thin air.
> 
> You are full of crap, as always.
> 
> You go ahead.  You address the problems of all of those Arab leaders refusing from 1920 on to live in peace with the indigenous Jews of the land of Israel.
> 
> You deal with them starting riots and wars and expelling the Jews from their homes and lands from 1920 to 1948.  And then coming back from more, only they lost and Muslims do not like to lose.
> 
> Deal with Arab colonialism since the 7th century which extends from Syria, Mesopotamia, Phonecia, Israel, North Africa, Spain, etc.
> 
> Go ahead, tin.  DEAL WITH THAT !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are well versed in Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bullshit is all in your very uneducated and very anti Jewish head
> 
> 
> And as always, you cannot DEAL WITH IT,  LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did those happen?
> 
> Oh, that's right, Israeli bullshit will not tell you that.
Click to expand...

Your bullshit will not tell you that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.  It was an act of self-defense against aggressors -- including irregular forces among the Arab population.  It was not aggression -- but a determined response to aggression against the Jewish people and State.
> 
> If we think back to how warfare was conducted at that time -- including the resulting population exchanges -- it was quite normal.  We have different expectations now.  But apply those actions by today's standard's is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to chime in here and say that while there are some instances of atrocious acts of terrorism on the Jewish side, the primary objective was never to ethnically cleanse the territory of its Arab inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that may have been true initially. But from day one the Palestinians were shoved aside. They were left out of the loop both politically and economically. They had no say in what was happening. Their country was disappearing out from under their feet. Any resistance to that outcome was called "attacking the Jews." We still hear that crap today.
> 
> Colonialism is a structural, daily violence against the Palestinians. Addressing that problem is the only path to peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs were "shoved aside" to where?
> What lands did they lose in 1892?
> What lands did they lose in 1920?
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> They never had a country and you keep creating one out of thin air.
> 
> You are full of crap, as always.
> 
> You go ahead.  You address the problems of all of those Arab leaders refusing from 1920 on to live in peace with the indigenous Jews of the land of Israel.
> 
> You deal with them starting riots and wars and expelling the Jews from their homes and lands from 1920 to 1948.  And then coming back from more, only they lost and Muslims do not like to lose.
> 
> Deal with Arab colonialism since the 7th century which extends from Syria, Mesopotamia, Phonecia, Israel, North Africa, Spain, etc.
> 
> Go ahead, tin.  DEAL WITH THAT !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are well versed in Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bullshit is all in your very uneducated and very anti Jewish head
> 
> 
> And as always, you cannot DEAL WITH IT,  LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1921?
> In 1929?
> In 1936 to 1939?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did those happen?
> 
> Oh, that's right, Israeli bullshit will not tell you that.
Click to expand...

Let us see you explain why these ones happened:

1517 Safed
1660 Tiberias
1660 Safed
1834 Safed Pogrom
1834 - Hebron Pogrom
1840- Damascus
1850 - Aleppo
1860 -Damascus


----------



## Sixties Fan

This timeline sounds a lot like what has been happening for the past decade against Jews around the world.  Coincidence ?
Anything to do with the teachings of Islam?
Where are the Arab "Palestinians" and their country in all of this ?
Any of what happens in this timeline has to do with any Christian or Muslim teachings to their followers?
Any of what has been happening for the past 100 years?
When will all of this end?
Maybe when Christianity and Islam are ready to teach peace with the Jews, and treat them as human beings?

Who am I kidding.

Timeline of antisemitism - Wikipedia


----------



## thetor

Sixties Fan said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> 
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.
> 
> When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem.
> The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.
> 
> Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?
> 
> Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously ignorant people. Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel and the Middle East
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They certainly are NOT,they are the REVERSE of that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And of course you have a degree in genetics, or are an expert on this or that, or something else, with a Pulizer Prize and a Nobel Prize  to boot.
> 
> The absolute and total refusal to give Jews their due.
> 
> MOST of them did go into Europe and other areas of the world, from the time of the First Temple.  It does not make them Germans if they lived in Germany, or Italians if the lived in Rome, and then Italy as witnessed by all the descendants of Jews who either went with Caesar to Rome, or later on in 70 CE after the destruction of the Second Temple.
> 
> You cannot and never will, be able to prove that the indigenous people of the land of Israel, the Jews, are not the indigenous people of the land of Israel.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge, the tools or anything else which would help you prove such a statement.
> 
> All you have is the word of the Arabs, who are invaders to the land since the 7th century and even have acknowledged that the Land of Israel does belong to the Jews.
> 
> It was an Arab, in the 7th Century, who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem, while the Christians before them had done as the Romans had done.  Keep the Jews out of Jerusalem to insult them.
> 
> There are good Muslims, there are bad Muslims.  The good ones have always wanted to live in peace with the Jews, on the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> The bad ones, they like to humiliate, kick, beat, steal, worse even ( and they have done all of those things in the examples Rylah gave and which neither you, nor the other ones care about, because it is about Jews, any Jews getting the worse.
> 
> The truth about the Jewish people is not dependent on people like you or anyone else who thinks like you.
> 
> It is exactly because of this kind of thinking that Herzl and others realized that there was only one thing to do.
> Return to their homeland and become sovereign over part of it.
> 
> It is simple.  The simplest thing in the world.
> 
> When any place treats one badly, or worse,  one tends to go back home.  Jews had been doing that for centuries, not just in the 19th, or 20th century.  Home is home.  Home for the Jews is Israel.
> 
> End of story.
Click to expand...

Well the Palestinian were there before the Romans ....Most Illegal Jews from 1920 onwards were Converts to Judaism,something you seriously do not comprehend they had not material desire other than Doctorine re Palestine because they were from Central Asia originally and that is thousands of miles away...Herzl was an athiest,and had no interest in Your God...In fact Herzl's Zionists collaborated with the Nazis aND HELP SEND jEWS TO THE cHARNALS .O for such ignorance on Jewish history would be hard to find...I like most Jews and their contribution to mankind cannot be equated,so great it has been(like others)

for you perusal and education


----------



## Sixties Fan

thetor said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.
> 
> When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem.
> The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.
> 
> Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?
> 
> Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously ignorant people. Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel and the Middle East
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They certainly are NOT,they are the REVERSE of that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And of course you have a degree in genetics, or are an expert on this or that, or something else, with a Pulizer Prize and a Nobel Prize  to boot.
> 
> The absolute and total refusal to give Jews their due.
> 
> MOST of them did go into Europe and other areas of the world, from the time of the First Temple.  It does not make them Germans if they lived in Germany, or Italians if the lived in Rome, and then Italy as witnessed by all the descendants of Jews who either went with Caesar to Rome, or later on in 70 CE after the destruction of the Second Temple.
> 
> You cannot and never will, be able to prove that the indigenous people of the land of Israel, the Jews, are not the indigenous people of the land of Israel.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge, the tools or anything else which would help you prove such a statement.
> 
> All you have is the word of the Arabs, who are invaders to the land since the 7th century and even have acknowledged that the Land of Israel does belong to the Jews.
> 
> It was an Arab, in the 7th Century, who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem, while the Christians before them had done as the Romans had done.  Keep the Jews out of Jerusalem to insult them.
> 
> There are good Muslims, there are bad Muslims.  The good ones have always wanted to live in peace with the Jews, on the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> The bad ones, they like to humiliate, kick, beat, steal, worse even ( and they have done all of those things in the examples Rylah gave and which neither you, nor the other ones care about, because it is about Jews, any Jews getting the worse.
> 
> The truth about the Jewish people is not dependent on people like you or anyone else who thinks like you.
> 
> It is exactly because of this kind of thinking that Herzl and others realized that there was only one thing to do.
> Return to their homeland and become sovereign over part of it.
> 
> It is simple.  The simplest thing in the world.
> 
> When any place treats one badly, or worse,  one tends to go back home.  Jews had been doing that for centuries, not just in the 19th, or 20th century.  Home is home.  Home for the Jews is Israel.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well the Palestinian were there before the Romans ....Most Illegal Jews from 1920 onwards were Converts to Judaism,something you seriously do not comprehend they had not material desire other than Doctorine re Palestine because they were from Central Asia originally and that is thousands of miles away...Herzl was an athiest,and had no interest in Your God...In fact Herzl's Zionists collaborated with the Nazis aND HELP SEND jEWS TO THE cHARNALS .O for such ignorance on Jewish history would be hard to find...I like most Jews and their contribution to mankind cannot be equated,so great it has been(like others)
> 
> for you perusal and education
Click to expand...

The "Palestinians" were there before the Romans?
The Jews of today are from Central Asia?
And they were illegal immigrants? Doctrine? From 1920 on?
Only from 1920 on?
What does Herzl being an Atheist have anything to do with him knowing that Israel was his homeland because that is where his ancestors came from?
The only thing the German Jews collaborated with the Germans was to get the Jews the heck out of Germany to save them from the Nazis.

You like most Jews.

What a sweetheart.  We need more people like you in the world


----------



## thetor

Sixties Fan said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disputes?? What a nice Islamist doublespeak.
> 
> When the Arabs rioted against the Egyptians in Palestine - Jews were still targeted FIRST in Jerusalem.
> The'y weren't a even part of the argument between the two.
> 
> Do You know what was one of the main "disputes" between the Egyptians and Arabs in Palestine, beside conscription to army?] It was that all of a sudden Arab Muslims had to be equal to Jews and Christians, in status and taxation. This apparently was enough. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> Q. *How about Arabs raping both men and women of Safed - as a way to solve a non-existent "dispute" that Jews weren't a part of?
> 
> Q. How about an attraction in a marketplace where one can excite the public with "predictions" on possible dates of next Arab pogroms ? Sounds like harmony or sectarian disorder?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously ignorant people. Most Israeli Jews are native to Israel and the Middle East
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They certainly are NOT,they are the REVERSE of that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And of course you have a degree in genetics, or are an expert on this or that, or something else, with a Pulizer Prize and a Nobel Prize  to boot.
> 
> The absolute and total refusal to give Jews their due.
> 
> MOST of them did go into Europe and other areas of the world, from the time of the First Temple.  It does not make them Germans if they lived in Germany, or Italians if the lived in Rome, and then Italy as witnessed by all the descendants of Jews who either went with Caesar to Rome, or later on in 70 CE after the destruction of the Second Temple.
> 
> You cannot and never will, be able to prove that the indigenous people of the land of Israel, the Jews, are not the indigenous people of the land of Israel.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge, the tools or anything else which would help you prove such a statement.
> 
> All you have is the word of the Arabs, who are invaders to the land since the 7th century and even have acknowledged that the Land of Israel does belong to the Jews.
> 
> It was an Arab, in the 7th Century, who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem, while the Christians before them had done as the Romans had done.  Keep the Jews out of Jerusalem to insult them.
> 
> There are good Muslims, there are bad Muslims.  The good ones have always wanted to live in peace with the Jews, on the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> The bad ones, they like to humiliate, kick, beat, steal, worse even ( and they have done all of those things in the examples Rylah gave and which neither you, nor the other ones care about, because it is about Jews, any Jews getting the worse.
> 
> The truth about the Jewish people is not dependent on people like you or anyone else who thinks like you.
> 
> It is exactly because of this kind of thinking that Herzl and others realized that there was only one thing to do.
> Return to their homeland and become sovereign over part of it.
> 
> It is simple.  The simplest thing in the world.
> 
> When any place treats one badly, or worse,  one tends to go back home.  Jews had been doing that for centuries, not just in the 19th, or 20th century.  Home is home.  Home for the Jews is Israel.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well the Palestinian were there before the Romans ....Most Illegal Jews from 1920 onwards were Converts to Judaism,something you seriously do not comprehend they had not material desire other than Doctorine re Palestine because they were from Central Asia originally and that is thousands of miles away...Herzl was an athiest,and had no interest in Your God...In fact Herzl's Zionists collaborated with the Nazis aND HELP SEND jEWS TO THE cHARNALS .O for such ignorance on Jewish history would be hard to find...I like most Jews and their contribution to mankind cannot be equated,so great it has been(like others)
> 
> for you perusal and education
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Palestinians" were there before the Romans?
> The Jews of today are from Central Asia?
> And they were illegal immigrants? Doctrine? From 1920 on?
> Only from 1920 on?
> What does Herzl being an Atheist have anything to do with him knowing that Israel was his homeland because that is where his ancestors came from?
> The only thing the German Jews collaborated with the Germans was to get the Jews the heck out of Germany to save them from the Nazis.
> 
> You like most Jews.
> 
> What a sweetheart.  We need more people like you in the world
Click to expand...

For YouJudenrat - Wikipedia

www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

Dream on with you contrived Bull _hit


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

(_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?

(_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.

If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:

"Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.

Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)

"In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
*(NOTE) * 
_International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely: 
_
_•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and 

•  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,”


How is defending yourself from attack be a declaration of war. Aren't the attacking parties responsible for their war?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only.


What about foreign non governmental armed forces attacking a civilian population?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.



P F Tinmore said:


> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?


*(COMMENT)*

This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another. 

There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.

While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.

But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?

(1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?

(2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?

(3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?

(4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​


P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?


*(COMMENT)*

OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.

So, who is the initial aggressor?
*(COMMENT)*

OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
It fits exactly.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.


Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Coyote,  _et al,_

Well, may be we should look at some of the chronology here.  Remember, absent  the provocation like that of imminent attack, the first use of armed force = aggression...



Coyote said:


> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.


*(COMMENT)*

Not including the 1920 Jerusalem riots _(provoked by Islamic Religious Leaders)_ or the 1929 Arab riots _(Arab attacks on Jews)_:

√  The *Palestinian Black Hand* was an anti-Zionist and anti-British Jihadist militant organization founded in  1930.
•  The Irgun was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931.
•  Lehi, (AKA: Stern Gang) was a Zionist paramilitary organization founded  in 1940.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
Click to expand...


Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian

Jews were first called palestinians by the British

Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
Click to expand...


Jews’ home in ancient Israel thousands of years ago http://en.unesco.org/galleries/whc-2015-beth-she-arim-necropolis-landmark-jewish-revival-israel


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Like the drama Queens that they are, there was no attack.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,”
> 
> 
> 
> How is defending yourself from attack be a declaration of war. Aren't the attacking parties responsible for their war?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

UP and until the UN Resolution 181(II), Mandate authority had no power, under the terms of the Mandate, to award the country either to the Arabs or to the Jews, or even to partition it between them.

•  For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of sovereign Jewish State.
•  For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine.​
In July 1947, the Mandate Authority asked the United Nations to consider the report on the irreconcilable differences, and to recommend a settlement of the problem.

Almost immediately the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) opened hearings.  Prominent among those giving testimony were the Representative of the Arab States which rejecting the report of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine, and declared that the Arabs of Palestine were determined to oppose with all the means at their disposal, any scheme that provided for segregation or partition; or that would give to a minority special and preferential status.  And as we all know, on 29 November 1947, The Resolution 181(II).  Hostilities almost immediately began (Civil War → Arabs 'vs' Jews).

From that point, until the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians rejected any peace agreements.  The Arab Palestinian favors armed conflict as the means of dispute resolution.  Conflict is seen as a meas to achieve what they cold not achieve through diplomacy and peaceful meas.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

History Lesson: When Jews were first called “palestinians”


----------



## JoelT1

History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name imposed on Jews’ land


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

That falls into the category and ICRC led discussion on typology of armed conflicts and related issues:

•  Armed Groups and International Law  •​
In this case, the court has to decide:

Some Arab Palestinians consider the May 1948 Conflict as being a conflict between citizens of the territory formerly under the Mandate.  (That is a Civil War NIAC.)

Some Arab Palestinians consider the conflict between Israel and the territories formerly under the Mandate.

Some Outside Observers see the conflict between Israel and the territories occupied since 1967.

Still other Outside Observers see the conflict as a struggle between first ceased from Jordan then abandon by Jordan; placed in the hands of Israel.

There are all sorts of views that are considered that could change the entire outlook on the sovereignty and the type of conflict.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only.
> 
> 
> 
> What about foreign non governmental armed forces attacking a civilian population?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Depending in the Rules of Land Warfare being used, the scope and nature of the  may fall under Article 4, Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land (Hague V) wherein:  "Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents."  Remember that this was written in 1907, the intention here may have broader implications in a Poost-WWII era.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This is the consequence of the "Right of Self-Determination."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian decided it was in their best interest to choose conflict _(the threat of and use of force)_ as a means to achieve their ends.  They choose a different path and lost.  

They have to accept the consequences.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

History Lesson: “For Arabs, there was no country called palestine”


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> Well, may be we should look at some of the chronology here.  Remember, absent  the provocation like that of imminent attack, the first use of armed force = aggression...
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not including the 1920 Jerusalem riots _(provoked by Islamic Religious Leaders)_ or the 1929 Arab riots _(Arab attacks on Jews)_:
> 
> √  The *Palestinian Black Hand* was an anti-Zionist and anti-British Jihadist militant organization founded in  1930.
> •  The Irgun was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931.
> •  Lehi, (AKA: Stern Gang) was a Zionist paramilitary organization founded  in 1940.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Ok, point taken.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
Click to expand...

Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> (_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?
> 
> (_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.
> 
> If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:
> 
> "Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
> The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
> *(NOTE) *
> _International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> _
> _•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
> *In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
Click to expand...


Palestine originally and directly referred to Jews and ancient Israel, and reflects the ancient Jewish heritage and history of the land


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
Click to expand...


Coyote, 

The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.

It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.

Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.

I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?

What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.

The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.

Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.

Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.

How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> (_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?
> 
> (_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.
> 
> If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:
> 
> "Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
> The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
> *(NOTE) *
> _International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> _
> _•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
> *In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
Click to expand...


Renowned legal scholar Eugene Rostow: There is no Israeli occupation. Settlements are lawful

> Google Groups

Eugene V. Rostow '37: Dean, Scholar, Statesman - Yale Law School


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
> Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.
> 
> It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.
> 
> Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.
> 
> I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?
> 
> What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.
> 
> The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.
> 
> Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.
> 
> Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?
Click to expand...


Winston Churchill, Secretary of State of British Mandate: Arabs crowd into the land


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> (_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?
> 
> (_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.
> 
> If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:
> 
> "Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
> The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
> *(NOTE) *
> _International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> _
> _•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
> *In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
Click to expand...


It is occupied by Israel, but between 1948 and 1967 it was not occupied by Jordan, as Gaza was occupied by Egypt?

Building is in Area C only, as the Oslo Accords allow.
Israel is not building in areas A and B, Arabs only.  No Jews work there either.
Israel builds for Jews in Area C, and for the 300,000 Arabs who live in Area C as well.
Arabs who get to work for Jews, and sometimes enter their Jewish homes and kill them, as it has happened how many times now?

These are disputed territories because Jordan was the last one to have control of it for 19 years.  No one had sovereignty over it, no country.  Therefore they are not occupied by Israel .

The Oslo Accords were to start solving the issue of educating the Arabs to co-exist with Israel.  Arafat went the other way and so has Abbas.

Those are the issues which need to be solved.  Again....the LEADERS and their insistence that Israel keep giving up land without getting nothing in return.

If one does not understand Arab/Muslim mindset since Mohammad, of how he went about winning his wars, etc, one can never understand why Al Husseini, Arafat, Abbas and all other Muslim leaders continue to teach hatred for Jews and Israel in their own schools.

The Leaders.  How to make them want peace.

Does it take two sides, or is it only one side which always must give in whether for peace or to surrender?


----------



## JoelT1

Jews are the indigenous People of Israel since antiquity

Arabs are indigenous to Arabia


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jewish aggression?  How about Irgun? Sterns Gang?  The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out, further reinforced by absentee landowner laws that made it almost impossible to reclaim property?  Like I said, there were no angels.
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious:
> With what weapons, with what army, with what numbers, with what power or anything else, could the Jews have  planned to ethnically cleanse the Mandate for Palestine of Arabs before 1948?
> (Even if there was a Plan Dalet, which was never implemented, how were the Jews supposed to win against so many Arabs?  Make all of them move away from their homeland, if they did not manage to get TranJordan back from the Hashemites, or Gaza?)
> 
> Let us consider the number of Arabs in the Mandate by 1948.
> Let us consider the number of Arab countries surrounding what was to become Israel in 1948.
> 
> Just what plan could that have been which would have succeeded in getting rid of all the Arabs in the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said anything about driving all the Arabs out of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did:
> 
> "No Jewish aggression? How about Irgun? Sterns Gang? *The plan to and actions to drive Palestinians out,"*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't referring to the entire mandate but to the area Israel finally claimed for its state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And when did it happen and how?  What was going on at the time?
> Who planned for the Arabs to leave and for what reason and for how long?
Click to expand...


It is said that the victor gets to write history and that is certainly true in this case.  The " official" narrative was that the Arab leaders told them to flee and they would then drive out the Jews and they could return.  The historical record is somewhat different.  Some fled as per the claim but most fled either out of fear of war or were deliberately targeted and driven out as part of an ethnic cleansing effort in that area.

According to Israeli author Benny Morris and recently declassified Israeli documents:



> Another crucial precondition was the penchant among Yishuv leaders to regard transfer as a legitimate solution to the "Arab problem." *Recently declassified Zionist documents demonstrated the virtual consensus emerged among the Zionist leadership, the the wake of the publication in July 1937 of the  Peel Commission recommendations, in favor of the transfer of at least several hundred thousand Palestinian Arabs--if not all of them-- out of the areas of the Jewish state-to-be*. The tone was set by Ben-Gurion himself in June 1938:
> 
> "I support compulsory [Palestinian Arab population] transfer. I do not see in it anything immoral."
> 
> Ben-Gurion's views did not change--though he was aware of the need, for a tactical reasons, to be discreet. In 1944, at a meeting of the Jewish Agency Executive discussing how the Zionist movement should deal with the British Labor Party decision to recommend the transfer of Palestinian Arabs, he said:
> 
> "When I heard these things. . . I had to ponder the matter long and hard ....[but] I reached the conclusion that this matter [had best] remain [in the Labor Party Program] . . . Were I asked what should be our program, it would not occur to me to tell them transfer . . . because speaking about the matter might harm [us] . . . in world opinion, because it might give the impression that there is no room in the Land of Israel without ousting the Arabs [and] . . . it would alert and antagonize the Arabs . . ."



Also,  to Benny Morris noted, the Palestinians who fled in 1947 left mostly due to _Israeli military attacks,  fear of impending attacks; and deliberate expulsions. While there was no centralized policy - expulsions were ordered by the Israeli high command as needed_. 

Morris has written several books based on information from documents in government and university archives that contained a great deal of information from that period that had never been made public.

In his book:  _The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949_ Morris documents atrocities by the Israelis, including cases of rape and torture. Out of 228 empty Palestinian villages, the 4inhabitants were expelled by the IDF from 41 and in another 90, they fled due to attacks on neighboring villages.  Only in six could he confirm that they left under orders from Arab authorities.  For the remaining 46, he could not find a reason for why they were abandoned.

Benny Morris himself is an interesting figure and is hardly a Palestinian sympathizer.  He clearly points out culpability for the refugee problem in both Israel's actions and those of the Arabs and defies the white-washed version of Israel's history.  He is a professor of Middle East history in Ben-Gurion University, and he considers himself a Zionist.  After publishing his first book he was denounced as an anti-Semite and compared with Holocaust deniers, a well worn tactic against those that depart from the accepted history of Israel.


----------



## JoelT1

Renowned Arab scholar, historian and intellectual Fouad Ajami: Arabs attacked Israel and fled The U.N. Can't Deliver a Palestinian State


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty. Governments and states are merely extensions of the People's sovereignty.
> 
> Who has the authority to end a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
> Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.
> 
> It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.
> 
> Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.
> 
> I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?
> 
> What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.
> 
> The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.
> 
> Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.
> 
> Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?
Click to expand...

Per your first paragraph, genetics shows the Palestinians closely related to Jews, a mixture of indigenous peoples and Arabs.  Not much different then the fact that Jews also include some European blood.

And like those who attempt to disenfranchise certain groups of Jews, you are doing the same to the Palestinians by claiming they are Arab invaders.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
> Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.
> 
> It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.
> 
> Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.
> 
> I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?
> 
> What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.
> 
> The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.
> 
> Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.
> 
> Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per your first paragraph, genetics shows the Palestinians closely related to Jews, a mixture of indigenous peoples and Arabs.  Not much different then the fact that Jews also include some European blood.
> 
> And like those who attempt to disenfranchise certain groups of Jews, you are doing the same to the Palestinians by claiming they are Arab invaders.
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Jews were first called palestinians Read, learn


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.



Palestinian Arabs have a  functioning state for a decade - called Gaza.
This state power was used for 2 purposes only:

1. Subjugate it's own population, for aid money and propaganda
2. War against Israel and the Jews as a whole.

On the other hand, Israel evicted all of it's people - using their state force to enable a Jew free Gaza as the Palestinians demanded. Israel even left them some active businesses so that they could start producing and exporting on their own.

Q. When did EVER the Palestinian Arabs use ANY of it's force, state, military or economic - in_ good faith_ and _peaceful means_?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
> Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.
> 
> It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.
> 
> Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.
> 
> I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?
> 
> What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.
> 
> The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.
> 
> Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.
> 
> Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per your first paragraph, genetics shows the Palestinians closely related to Jews, a mixture of indigenous peoples and Arabs.  Not much different then the fact that Jews also include some European blood.
> 
> And like those who attempt to disenfranchise certain groups of Jews, you are doing the same to the Palestinians by claiming they are Arab invaders.
Click to expand...


Complete nonsense.

Jews are linked to Israel by DNA. There is no such thing as European blood LOL!!!


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
> Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.
> 
> It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.
> 
> Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.
> 
> I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?
> 
> What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.
> 
> The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.
> 
> Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.
> 
> Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per your first paragraph, genetics shows the Palestinians closely related to Jews, a mixture of indigenous peoples and Arabs.  Not much different then the fact that Jews also include some European blood.
> 
> And like those who attempt to disenfranchise certain groups of Jews, you are doing the same to the Palestinians by claiming they are Arab invaders.
Click to expand...


The vast majority of Palestinian Arabs do indeed, identify with a variety of Arabian tribes by ancestry and tradition. They're divided between 2 fractions - Northern tribes and tribes of Yemen, like in EVERY society in Arabia up till today.
 The Kurds are the descendants of Saladin army, the Husseinis are Hashemites, the Banu Abbas are Arabian noble tribe, the Tamimis of Hebron belong to the royal tribe of Qatar etc.

Again this is not name calling - this is what the Palestinians openly identify with.
And when another Hashemite king from Iraq conquered the lands in recent history they all accepted him as a king - no claims of_ foreign influence_ were voiced.


But let's call the things by their name - Arab Muslims ARE invaders and colonizers of the Levant. *And this is not to say they don't have rights due to their longstanding presence.
It's just when You use words such as 'indigenous', it's crucial to clear this things up.
*
Jews are indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> I don't think I am confusing the issues at all.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The isolated sentence here, only serves to illuminate that the Arab Palestinians have never been treated significantly different from that of the other populations in the Middle East carve-outs.  The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very naive perspective.  The entire Arabian World history is filled to the brim with monarchies of one sort or another.
> 
> There are many many states that were deposed only to be reconstituted into another form.  The question - "Who has the authority to end a state" - is absurd; no more enlightened than asking who has the right to breath air.
> 
> While it may be very ideologically sounding to talk about the relationship between "sovereignty" and the "people;" in reality, it is the government that exercises territorial sovereignty every single day.
> 
> But when you make such arguments, you open yourself to the question:  "What Arab Palestinian every exercised sovereignty over anything?"  To say that the government is an "extensions of the People's sovereignty" means what?  Exactly how is that applied daily?  Sovereignty, as we apply it in these discussions is the application of fundamental norms that regulates the conduct of states in the international community (ie Article 2 stuff in the UN Charter).  And in that vein, you judge the extent of sovereignty by a comparative analysis.  SO;  in comparison to every other Middle Eastern State, how to the Arab Palestinians compare?
> 
> (1) That States are juridically equal;  have the Arab Palestinians even attempted to establish a judicial landscape comparable to any other regional neighbor?
> 
> (2) That each State enjoys the right inherent in full sovereignty; every other state has established internationally recognized borders and control those borders.  Do the Arab Palestinians now, or at any time in the past 1000 years, have this independent and self-governing territory?
> 
> (3) That the personality of the State is respected, as well as its territorial integrity?  Have the people of the Arab Palestinian State actually assembled and constructed a framework of a State anywhere reassembling any neighbor?
> 
> (4) That the State should, perform the duties and obligations similar to any other state?  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians do not now, and have not done so in the past for more than a 1000 years.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad.  Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home _(where they had lived for centuries)_ minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH, this is just so sad. Honestly, does this have any resemblance to the historical record?​
> It fits exactly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s. Arafat was Egyptian
> 
> Jews were first called palestinians by the British
> 
> Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Ever hear of the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, we get the point you want to make, however irrelevant.  You made claims that it was the Romans and the British and the philistines....who coined the name.  None of it matters at all. Every people starts somewhere and the Palestinians, whatever you choose to call them have roots that go back a long ways.  The rest is semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote,
> 
> The Arabs have roots which go a long way. In Arabia. And then they branched out into the areas they conquered.  They are now Morrocans, Lybians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, etc.
> Now there are the Palestinians who borrowed the name in 1964, but wanted to be Syrian.
> 
> It is important to learn why they are Palestinians and not Syrians, today.  Why their leaders chose that Nationality and so late after Israel became Independent.
> 
> Call them Arabs, call them Palestinians, they were offered Statehood four times so far and the leaders have rejected it.  THE LEADERS.
> 
> I will ask again, HOW is the world going to make the Palestinian leaders give up their aim to destroy Israel, come to the table, negotiate as Egypt and Jordan did, and come to a Peace treaty as it was done with them?
> 
> What is the process for the Arabs to give up destroying Israel and killing all the Jews, as it continues to be part of their charter, and they have no intention of changing it Ever.
> 
> The negative, destructive ideas of the Arab leaders, from Al-Husseini to Abbas, need to go, be done with in order for any chance for peace to happen.
> 
> Agree, disagree, or what is your other solution.
> 
> Those are the issues which continue to take over the Arabs living in what was the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> How to solve the most important issue of them all.  The Arab leaders and their refusal to change what their goal has been since 1920?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per your first paragraph, genetics shows the Palestinians closely related to Jews, a mixture of indigenous peoples and Arabs.  Not much different then the fact that Jews also include some European blood.
> 
> And like those who attempt to disenfranchise certain groups of Jews, you are doing the same to the Palestinians by claiming they are Arab invaders.
Click to expand...

Coyote, seriously,

Did the Arab Muslims invade the Land of Israel in the 7th century or not?  Yes or no?
Am I "claiming it", or the Arab invasion actually happened and the Arabs who lived in the region of "Palestine" and their descendants, and those who immigrated at the end of the 19th century or early 20th century, are all descendants of people whose indigenous land is called Arabia?
Never mind all that.  Why are the Arabs insisting that the Jews who went to Europe from Asia thousands of years ago, are only Europeans and not indigenous of the land of Israel?
Why are the Palestinians insisting that there is no Jewish History in the land of Israel, on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem, at the Cave of the Patriarchs, etc?

Do you see a pattern here of delegitimizing Jews and their right to any part of their homeland, or not?  There is none happening?  How to stop it if it is happening?

Having some Jews forced into Islam, or in recent times choosing to become Muslims, and then their descendants having some Jewish blood, does not make All of the Arabs who now reside in Gaza, Israel, or Judea and Samaria "related" to Jews or having any rights to any part of the Jewish Homeland.  Why? Because they are not Jews anymore.  They are not following Judaism.
You are repeating "genetic" tests which have been debunked several times.
How many of those Arabs who allegedly took the test, which would show that about "80%
of Palestinian Arabs are related to Jews" have taken any other tests to confirm it?
What are their names?  From which Arab clans?

But again, I have said, and others have said it as well.  The Arabs have been offered several offers to create their State on the Mandate for Palestine.  A second one actually, since the Hashemite clan ended up with 78% of it.

Why won't the leaders come to the table without preconditions and work out a peace agreement the way the Arab Jordanians and Egyptians were capable of doing?

When can the PLO, Fatah and Hamas bury their charters where they vow the destruction of Israel and killing all the Jews?

Should not that be a good starting point? 

Teach towards co-existance.  How about that?


----------



## Indeependent

thetor said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say there were no disputes
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> 
> 
> Come off it Ry,the Pogroms were from Russia circa 1890's,Europe and Spain(not under the Moors rule but the Catholic Barbarians,in fact if you had bothered to enquire about Jewish History,you would know  like me,that the Moors and Jews joined forces to fight off the Catholic invasion,incidentally the fleeing Jews were given safe heaven in Islamic Constantinople which is Istanbul Turkey today...so the Jews flourished in Muslim Spain and Muslim Constantinople)since 760 AD onwards and those filthy Nazis (who the Zionists collaborated with)1930 onwards,there were few problems with the Palestinians until the 1920's when the realization of the Zionists intentions were fully understood...you must know that these Zionists were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and Christian Europe despised them,and gave them No safe heaven against the barbarity of the Nazis and others.tor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't "come off it" simply because it doesn't fit Your narrative.
> Your Palestine Kumbaya fairytale is just that - Arab fairytale of 1001 nights.
> 
> Whole communities of Palestinian Jews had to flee to Damascus and Egypt because of those  Arab Pogroms - prior to Zionism.
> 
> 1517 Safed
> 1660 Tiberias
> 1660 Safed
> 1834 Safed Pogrom
> 1834 - Hebron Pogrom
> 1840- Damascus
> 1850 - Aleppo
> 1860 -Damascus
> 
> Q. So what was the Arab excuse for Pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,I did not say there were no disputes,but very few,you will also note Damascus and Aleppo are not in Palestine,most of the nearly 2000 years the Jews(you say Palestinian Jews,and I thank you Ry for that aknowlegment) things were harmonious.......moreover when we compare to Europe and the Christians,the Palestinian-Jewish disputes are just a Piss in the Ocean...You have completely exaggerated the situations,you should Love your Palestinian brethren more as I do, the very fine Jews throughout history...you are saying your inaccurate statements are the facts...they are not...Why do you Never criticize the Christians,Catholics,Russians and Germans...yet you continually rabbit on about how terrible the Palestinians are.and considering what the Jews have done to the Palestinians makes your prose churlish indeed..it shows a very ignorant and weak attitude in my opinion,I hope in future instead of an inaccurate one-liners Ry,you like me delve deeper into the facts....Have a good day Ry...I am not your enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Things were always good between Jews and Arabs when Jews paid their tax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goodness Indeependent....I must say you have excellent mirth
Click to expand...

One of my favorite drinks.


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs invaded Syria and to a lesser degree Israel. Umayyad Arab Muslims were based in Damascus


----------



## Sixties Fan

Veneer of positivity fades in Palestinian unity talks as tough issues surface


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Snapshots:  Fatah: A ‘Sea of Blood’ Will ‘Create the State of Palestine’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Under Cover of Jewish Holidays, Rampant PA Illegal Construction Mocked High Court’s Rulings | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 26 Tishri 5778 – October 16, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


"The state of Israel was established in my country"  she says.

Which country was that?
At what point during the 1300 years was there a country called Palestine?

Why is she advocating the destruction of Israel so that she can have "her country" in its place?
Why can she not live in Israel, being born in Jerusalem, as so many other Arab Palestinians are willing to do, in peace, co-existing, accepting Israel as their country and being proud of it, and helping build it for a better world?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[When is the reversal of these teachings going to start happening? Palestinian lives are important, too.  Why not for the Arab leaders? ]

Using these accounts, the suspect published words of praise, support, sympathy for Hamas and the Al-Kotla Al-Islamiya student cell, which is related to Hamas. He also expressed support for the Marabataat organization, which is active on the Temple Mount.

Khalaf published comments praising, expressing solidarity with, and encouragement for terror attacks. Khalaf also signaled his support for the Hamas terror organization on his social media pages, hinting that given the chance, he would also carry out a terror attack.

(full article online)

Arab college student arrested for inciting terror


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sarona Terrorists Convicted on 4 Murders, 41 Attempted Murders in Tel Aviv | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Hana Levi Julian | 27 Tishri 5778 – October 16, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Unification Must Honor Palestinian Commitments


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The state of Israel was established in my country"  she says.
> 
> Which country was that?
> At what point during the 1300 years was there a country called Palestine?
> 
> Why is she advocating the destruction of Israel so that she can have "her country" in its place?
> Why can she not live in Israel, being born in Jerusalem, as so many other Arab Palestinians are willing to do, in peace, co-existing, accepting Israel as their country and being proud of it, and helping build it for a better world?
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> "The state of Israel was established in my country" she says.
> 
> Which country was that?


More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## JoelT1

Jews are the indigenous People of the land for thousands of years.

Ancient Jewish village in ancient Israel Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)


----------



## JoelT1

History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name imposed on Jews’ land


----------



## JoelT1

History Lesson: “For Arabs, there was no country called palestine”


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> History Lesson: “For Arabs, there was no country called palestine”


Ahhh, the Israeli talking points guy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> History Lesson: “For Arabs, there was no country called palestine”
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the Israeli talking points guy.
Click to expand...


Dean of Middle East historians


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> History Lesson: “For Arabs, there was no country called palestine”
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the Israeli talking points guy.
Click to expand...


Encyclopedia of Islam: Romans rename Jews’ land palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

Gaza: Hebrew in origin, azzah, reflecting its Jewish history dating back thousands of years.


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the “palestinians”? An amusing look


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Blacklisted, Smeared & Silenced For Exposing NATO Destabilization Of Syria*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

But now that Egypt is forcing Hamas to confront ISIS supporters in Gaza, it’s of course time to trot out the usual variations of the Nazi slogan “The Jews are our misfortune” – so here goes:

“Some also see an Israeli hand in the area.
Akram Attalla, a political analyst and columnist for al-Ayyam newspaper, speculated that Islamic State in Gaza and the Sinai is funded by Israel in order to undermine Hamas.
‘Israel is aware that the Palestinians have adapted to the division among them and the siege,’ he told The Electronic Intifada. ‘Hence, Israel is trying to create groups that can wear Hamas down.’
Omar Jaara, an Israel affairs expert and lecturer at An-Najah National University in the West Bank, echoed this theory. Islamic State, he said, is a ‘tool controlled by Israel to maintain instability’ at the boundary with Egypt. As the group’s threat to Egypt grows, he added, it becomes a ‘wild card’ that Israel can wield against Hamas.”

(full article online)

Guess who is to blame for ISIS terrorists in Gaza? (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.



You can't say Israel has made good faith attempts to achieve peace?  Really?

You mean like accepting the (first and second) Partition plans?  Like offering peace treaties giving Arab Palestinians everything they asked for with land swaps -- three times, or is it four?  Like the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza?  Like not building any new settlements in Area C for 20 years?  Like a full building freeze that lasted for years?  Like voluntarily restricting the freedom of worship for Jews at their most holy site for fear of upsetting Muslims?  Like removing perfectly reasonable security precautions from the Temple Mount?  Like granting a foreign country special privileges over your holy sites and territory? Like enshrining equality for all peoples into Israeli laws, with special acknowledgements to the Arab people?  Like continuing to offer medical treatment and other services to the people of Gaza, even though that is supposed to be handled by the Palestinian governments?  Like releasing thousands of criminals and terrorists on good faith, despite knowing they will (and have) attack innocent Israelis again?  Come on.

The whole "settlements in occupied territories" is an EXCUSE that is used by the Arab Palestinians in order to continue to reject peace.  It is only an excuse.

Why? 

1.  It invalidates a peace treaty which grants Israel control over that territory.
2.  It assumes a border already exists between Israel and some other entity, which is not true.
3.  It assumes that the presence of Jews on a piece of land is a barrier to peace (while also rejecting any idea that the presence of Arabs in Israel is a barrier to peace -- a blatant hypocrisy.)
4.  It neglects the Israeli restraint in not building new "settlements" and only allowing for natural expansion in existing "settlements" which it intends to keep in final negotiations..
5.  It places pre-conditions on the negotiation process, effectively making some parts of the negotiation non-negotiable. 
6.  It creates a false representation of the conflict by focusing on only a very small minority of Arab Palestinians.  (Nearly all Arab Palestinians live under direct Palestinian government rule).


----------



## thetor

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
Click to expand...

You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF


----------



## thetor

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say Israel has made good faith attempts to achieve peace?  Really?
> 
> You mean like accepting the (first and second) Partition plans?  Like offering peace treaties giving Arab Palestinians everything they asked for with land swaps -- three times, or is it four?  Like the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza?  Like not building any new settlements in Area C for 20 years?  Like a full building freeze that lasted for years?  Like voluntarily restricting the freedom of worship for Jews at their most holy site for fear of upsetting Muslims?  Like removing perfectly reasonable security precautions from the Temple Mount?  Like granting a foreign country special privileges over your holy sites and territory? Like enshrining equality for all peoples into Israeli laws, with special acknowledgements to the Arab people?  Like continuing to offer medical treatment and other services to the people of Gaza, even though that is supposed to be handled by the Palestinian governments?  Like releasing thousands of criminals and terrorists on good faith, despite knowing they will (and have) attack innocent Israelis again?  Come on.
> 
> The whole "settlements in occupied territories" is an EXCUSE that is used by the Arab Palestinians in order to continue to reject peace.  It is only an excuse.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 1.  It invalidates a peace treaty which grants Israel control over that territory.
> 2.  It assumes a border already exists between Israel and some other entity, which is not true.
> 3.  It assumes that the presence of Jews on a piece of land is a barrier to peace (while also rejecting any idea that the presence of Arabs in Israel is a barrier to peace -- a blatant hypocrisy.)
> 4.  It neglects the Israeli restraint in not building new "settlements" and only allowing for natural expansion in existing "settlements" which it intends to keep in final negotiations..
> 5.  It places pre-conditions on the negotiation process, effectively making some parts of the negotiation non-negotiable.
> 6.  It creates a false representation of the conflict by focusing on only a very small minority of Arab Palestinians.  (Nearly all Arab Palestinians live under direct Palestinian government rule).
Click to expand...

You are NUTS


----------



## Sixties Fan

thetor said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
Click to expand...

The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines. 

Have them banned.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
Click to expand...


Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

thetor said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say Israel has made good faith attempts to achieve peace?  Really?
> 
> You mean like accepting the (first and second) Partition plans?  Like offering peace treaties giving Arab Palestinians everything they asked for with land swaps -- three times, or is it four?  Like the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza?  Like not building any new settlements in Area C for 20 years?  Like a full building freeze that lasted for years?  Like voluntarily restricting the freedom of worship for Jews at their most holy site for fear of upsetting Muslims?  Like removing perfectly reasonable security precautions from the Temple Mount?  Like granting a foreign country special privileges over your holy sites and territory? Like enshrining equality for all peoples into Israeli laws, with special acknowledgements to the Arab people?  Like continuing to offer medical treatment and other services to the people of Gaza, even though that is supposed to be handled by the Palestinian governments?  Like releasing thousands of criminals and terrorists on good faith, despite knowing they will (and have) attack innocent Israelis again?  Come on.
> 
> The whole "settlements in occupied territories" is an EXCUSE that is used by the Arab Palestinians in order to continue to reject peace.  It is only an excuse.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 1.  It invalidates a peace treaty which grants Israel control over that territory.
> 2.  It assumes a border already exists between Israel and some other entity, which is not true.
> 3.  It assumes that the presence of Jews on a piece of land is a barrier to peace (while also rejecting any idea that the presence of Arabs in Israel is a barrier to peace -- a blatant hypocrisy.)
> 4.  It neglects the Israeli restraint in not building new "settlements" and only allowing for natural expansion in existing "settlements" which it intends to keep in final negotiations..
> 5.  It places pre-conditions on the negotiation process, effectively making some parts of the negotiation non-negotiable.
> 6.  It creates a false representation of the conflict by focusing on only a very small minority of Arab Palestinians.  (Nearly all Arab Palestinians live under direct Palestinian government rule).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are NUTS
Click to expand...

History is not your strength, we see.
Geography is not your strength.
Treaties are not your strength.

Remind me what your strengths about this conflicts are


----------



## Sixties Fan

JoelT1 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were treated the same as the the people which formed Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL
Click to expand...

Take it up with the Palestinian leaders.  They have come up with the idea, not me.  You are Oops ing the wrong person.

Tracking the Philistines

Unfortunately, the Philistines were neither Arabs nor Semites (which the current Palestinians certainly claim to be), and the name Palestine was assigned to the region after the Romans put down the Bar Kochba rebellion around A.D. 135.

------------
Take it up with the Arab leaders


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

Thanking liq for calling me nuts is beneath you.  If you have an argument -- make it.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take it up with the Palestinian leaders.  They have come up with the idea, not me.  You are Oops ing the wrong person.
> 
> Tracking the Philistines
> 
> Unfortunately, the Philistines were neither Arabs nor Semites (which the current Palestinians certainly claim to be), and the name Palestine was assigned to the region after the Romans put down the Bar Kochba rebellion around A.D. 135.
> 
> ------------
> Take it up with the Arab leaders
Click to expand...


Oh, I didn’t know that


Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take it up with the Palestinian leaders.  They have come up with the idea, not me.  You are Oops ing the wrong person.
> 
> Tracking the Philistines
> 
> Unfortunately, the Philistines were neither Arabs nor Semites (which the current Palestinians certainly claim to be), and the name Palestine was assigned to the region after the Romans put down the Bar Kochba rebellion around A.D. 135.
> 
> ------------
> Take it up with the Arab leaders
Click to expand...


Oh I didn’t know that


----------



## thetor

Sixties Fan said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say Israel has made good faith attempts to achieve peace?  Really?
> 
> You mean like accepting the (first and second) Partition plans?  Like offering peace treaties giving Arab Palestinians everything they asked for with land swaps -- three times, or is it four?  Like the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza?  Like not building any new settlements in Area C for 20 years?  Like a full building freeze that lasted for years?  Like voluntarily restricting the freedom of worship for Jews at their most holy site for fear of upsetting Muslims?  Like removing perfectly reasonable security precautions from the Temple Mount?  Like granting a foreign country special privileges over your holy sites and territory? Like enshrining equality for all peoples into Israeli laws, with special acknowledgements to the Arab people?  Like continuing to offer medical treatment and other services to the people of Gaza, even though that is supposed to be handled by the Palestinian governments?  Like releasing thousands of criminals and terrorists on good faith, despite knowing they will (and have) attack innocent Israelis again?  Come on.
> 
> The whole "settlements in occupied territories" is an EXCUSE that is used by the Arab Palestinians in order to continue to reject peace.  It is only an excuse.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 1.  It invalidates a peace treaty which grants Israel control over that territory.
> 2.  It assumes a border already exists between Israel and some other entity, which is not true.
> 3.  It assumes that the presence of Jews on a piece of land is a barrier to peace (while also rejecting any idea that the presence of Arabs in Israel is a barrier to peace -- a blatant hypocrisy.)
> 4.  It neglects the Israeli restraint in not building new "settlements" and only allowing for natural expansion in existing "settlements" which it intends to keep in final negotiations..
> 5.  It places pre-conditions on the negotiation process, effectively making some parts of the negotiation non-negotiable.
> 6.  It creates a false representation of the conflict by focusing on only a very small minority of Arab Palestinians.  (Nearly all Arab Palestinians live under direct Palestinian government rule).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are NUTS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History is not your strength, we see.
> Geography is not your strength.
> Treaties are not your strength.
> 
> Remind me what your strengths about this conflicts are
Click to expand...

O yeah...try 99% for Geography A Level
97% History.........Not bad,See you around Pal


----------



## thetor

Sixties Fan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. They all continue to live in their own country while the Palestinians live elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take it up with the Palestinian leaders.  They have come up with the idea, not me.  You are Oops ing the wrong person.
> 
> Tracking the Philistines
> 
> Unfortunately, the Philistines were neither Arabs nor Semites (which the current Palestinians certainly claim to be), and the name Palestine was assigned to the region after the Romans put down the Bar Kochba rebellion around A.D. 135.
> 
> ------------
> Take it up with the Arab leaders
Click to expand...

Not correct on either statement...Try harder in future because Banality is just that


----------



## thetor

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> Thanking liq for calling me nuts is beneath you.  If you have an argument -- make it.


Why do you find the Truth so hard to accept ? because you are NUTS

Really Coyote,you should not encourage her


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> Thanking liq for calling me nuts is beneath you.  If you have an argument -- make it.


You know I love you anyway.


----------



## Sixties Fan

thetor said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel referring to Greek Philistines: Are palestinians Italian, Greek or Jewish? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take it up with the Palestinian leaders.  They have come up with the idea, not me.  You are Oops ing the wrong person.
> 
> Tracking the Philistines
> 
> Unfortunately, the Philistines were neither Arabs nor Semites (which the current Palestinians certainly claim to be), and the name Palestine was assigned to the region after the Romans put down the Bar Kochba rebellion around A.D. 135.
> 
> ------------
> Take it up with the Arab leaders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not correct on either statement...Try harder in future because Banality is just that
Click to expand...

Not correct on what?
What exactly are you quoting and defying as not being true.

Where is your evidence to what you believe to be true.

What is it that you do believe to be true?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

thetor said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Thanking liq for calling me nuts is beneath you.  If you have an argument -- make it.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you find the Truth so hard to accept ? because you are NUTS
> 
> Really Coyote,you should not encourage her
Click to expand...

This is a discussion thread.

Make your case and show the evidence for it.

Name calling and constant insults is the only way you deal with  anything.

Let us try it the grown ups way.

You show your case.
You show the evidence.
We discuss it.


----------



## jamesduncan

JoelT1 said:


> Actually there are no historical of palestine and palestinians written in Arabic before the 20th century.



Actually, there is no history and/or a map of the land of "Israel", before 1947ad; , zip, nil, nada

.,.,.,.just thought I'd add this to the discussion

But there are many ancient maps that label/show the area of Egypt/Arabia. But no "Israel".


-


----------



## JoelT1

jamesduncan said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there are no histories of palestine and palestinians written in Arabic before the 20th century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, there is no history and/or a map of the land of "Israel", before 1947ad; , zip, nil, nada
> 
> .,.,.,.just thought I'd add this to the discussion
> 
> -
Click to expand...


Um, maps are a recent European invention, genius.

Ancient Israel appears in archaeology http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/mesha-stele


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh (1 of 2)*


*Is BuzzFeed a Mouthpiece for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF)? | Mnar Muhawesh 2 of 2*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh (1 of 2)*
> 
> 
> *Is BuzzFeed a Mouthpiece for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF)? | Mnar Muhawesh 2 of 2*
> 
> **


[Another anti USA organization Tinfoil has no problem embracing.
Anyone who may be paid by Iran, or writes against Israel - no matter what it is, not matter how accurate or not,  is a friend, indeed.]

The mystery of MintPress News


----------



## jamesduncan

JoelT1 said:


> Ancient Israel appears in archaeology The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris



As a favor would you please _paraphrase _it for me?
If what you say sounds interesting I'll look at the link.

Ok -?


----------



## Shusha

Oh please would everyone STOP talking about the names and labels as though they mean anything!  They don't. 

There are two peoples. You can call them anything you want. But stop denying that either exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This led to me doing some Googling and discovering this video of her making the same complaints back in April 2016. Only she gives away a lot more in this video – such as the reason SJP objects to the antisemitism and genocidal statements. Clue: not because such things are wrong or evil.


Meanwhile, this genocidal lunatic and apologist for antisemites is currently speaking in the US on a Nakba tour.

(full article online)

Hater Admits SJP Only “Pretends” To Object to Idea Israel Has No Right to Exist


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say Israel has made good faith attempts to achieve peace?  Really?
Click to expand...


It has made SOME.



> You mean like accepting the (first and second) Partition plans?  Like offering peace treaties giving Arab Palestinians everything they asked for with land swaps -- three times, or is it four?



They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides, something between the 6.3 % Olmert wanted and the 1.9% Abbas wanted but Olmert was himself being targeted for corruption leaving him to politically weak to follow through.

Olmert is the one I am familiar with, what were the other landswap deals that were deals actually offered not just talked about?

In terms of "giving them everything they asked for" what was offered on the right of return and Jerusalem?  Add to that, Israel was going to keep security control indefinately, over the border between the West Bank and Jordan. A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.




> Like the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza?  Like not building any new settlements in Area C for 20 years?  Like a full building freeze that lasted for years?  Like voluntarily restricting the freedom of worship for Jews at their most holy site for fear of upsetting Muslims?  Like removing perfectly reasonable security precautions from the Temple Mount?  Like granting a foreign country special privileges over your holy sites and territory? Like enshrining equality for all peoples into Israeli laws, with special acknowledgements to the Arab people?  Like continuing to offer medical treatment and other services to the people of Gaza, even though that is supposed to be handled by the Palestinian governments?  Like releasing thousands of criminals and terrorists on good faith, despite knowing they will (and have) attack innocent Israelis again?  Come on.



You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.  Some of those examples aren't quite what they seem on the surface.  For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.




> The whole "settlements in occupied territories" is an EXCUSE that is used by the Arab Palestinians in order to continue to reject peace.  It is only an excuse.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 1.  It invalidates a peace treaty which grants Israel control over that territory.
> 2.  It assumes a border already exists between Israel and some other entity, which is not true.
> 3.  It assumes that the presence of Jews on a piece of land is a barrier to peace (while also rejecting any idea that the presence of Arabs in Israel is a barrier to peace -- a blatant hypocrisy.)
> 4.  It neglects the Israeli restraint in not building new "settlements" and only allowing for natural expansion in existing "settlements" which it intends to keep in final negotiations..
> 5.  It places pre-conditions on the negotiation process, effectively making some parts of the negotiation non-negotiable.
> 6.  It creates a false representation of the conflict by focusing on only a very small minority of Arab Palestinians.  (Nearly all Arab Palestinians live under direct Palestinian government rule).



I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.  There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.

By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh (1 of 2)*
> 
> 
> *Is BuzzFeed a Mouthpiece for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF)? | Mnar Muhawesh 2 of 2*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> [Another anti USA organization Tinfoil has no problem embracing.
> Anyone who may be paid by Iran, or writes against Israel - no matter what it is, not matter how accurate or not,  is a friend, indeed.]
> 
> The mystery of MintPress News
Click to expand...

*Who is MintPress and why are they doing all this hiring?*

*Who is MintPress and why are they doing all this hiring?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> This led to me doing some Googling and discovering this video of her making the same complaints back in April 2016. Only she gives away a lot more in this video – such as the reason SJP objects to the antisemitism and genocidal statements. Clue: not because such things are wrong or evil.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, this genocidal lunatic and apologist for antisemites is currently speaking in the US on a Nakba tour.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hater Admits SJP Only “Pretends” To Object to Idea Israel Has No Right to Exist


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> From that point, until the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians rejected any peace agreements.


The PLO offered a peace agreement in the early 70s where there would be one secular state with equal rights for all people including the Jews.

Israel rejected the offer because they wanted to pig the place for themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part of Palestine.*


I think there is a hint there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In July 1947, the Mandate Authority asked the United Nations to consider the report on the irreconcilable differences, and to recommend a settlement of the problem.


Between a colonial project and the Palestinians.

They had two reports. One would have lead to peace and one that lead to war.

They chose war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> That falls into the category and ICRC led discussion on typology of armed conflicts and related issues:
> 
> •  Armed Groups and International Law  •​
> In this case, the court has to decide:
> 
> Some Arab Palestinians consider the May 1948 Conflict as being a conflict between citizens of the territory formerly under the Mandate.  (That is a Civil War NIAC.)
> 
> Some Arab Palestinians consider the conflict between Israel and the territories formerly under the Mandate.
> 
> Some Outside Observers see the conflict between Israel and the territories occupied since 1967.
> 
> Still other Outside Observers see the conflict as a struggle between first ceased from Jordan then abandon by Jordan; placed in the hands of Israel.
> 
> There are all sorts of views that are considered that could change the entire outlook on the sovereignty and the type of conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only.
> 
> 
> 
> What about foreign non governmental armed forces attacking a civilian population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Depending in the Rules of Land Warfare being used, the scope and nature of the  may fall under Article 4, Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land (Hague V) wherein:  "Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents."  Remember that this was written in 1907, the intention here may have broader implications in a Poost-WWII era.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where is it that the Palestinians were faced with a colonial project.

What are the legalities of that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority TV documentary presents Israel's coastal cities as "Palestine"


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinian decided it was in their best interest to choose conflict


It was the Palestinians who were attacked.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> (_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?
> 
> (_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.
> 
> If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:
> 
> "Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
> The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
> *(NOTE) *
> _International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> _
> _•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
> *In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> I don't think you can say Israel has either. Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.


Indeed, Israel uses peaceful means like airplanes, bombs, missiles, tanks,...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Photos from another camp posted on Facebook by the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs showed a large map of "Palestine" that erased Israel painted by girls in the camp:







*Posted text:* "Pictures from the summer camps of 2017
The Wonderful [Girls] of Palestine [Summer] Camp
Asira Al-Shimaliya - Nablus"
[Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs, Aug. 7, 2017]

(full article online)

PA summer camps teach terror and Martyrdom-death for kids - PMW Bulletins


----------



## thetor

Sixties Fan said:


> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thetor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should be BANNED...Why? for total IGNORANCE.........Palestinian are Greek Philistines!!!!!!!!!!WTF
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian leaders today love to say that they are descendants of the ancients Philistines.
> 
> Have them banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just 1 problem: Philistines were Greek Do “palestinians” like souvlaki? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take it up with the Palestinian leaders.  They have come up with the idea, not me.  You are Oops ing the wrong person.
> 
> Tracking the Philistines
> 
> Unfortunately, the Philistines were neither Arabs nor Semites (which the current Palestinians certainly claim to be), and the name Palestine was assigned to the region after the Romans put down the Bar Kochba rebellion around A.D. 135.
> 
> ------------
> Take it up with the Arab leaders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not correct on either statement...Try harder in future because Banality is just that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not correct on what?
> What exactly are you quoting and defying as not being true.
> 
> Where is your evidence to what you believe to be true.
> 
> What is it that you do believe to be true?
Click to expand...

Your mixed metaphors exasperate


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Photos from another camp posted on Facebook by the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs showed a large map of "Palestine" that erased Israel painted by girls in the camp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Posted text:* "Pictures from the summer camps of 2017
> The Wonderful [Girls] of Palestine [Summer] Camp
> Asira Al-Shimaliya - Nablus"
> [Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs, Aug. 7, 2017]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA summer camps teach terror and Martyrdom-death for kids - PMW Bulletins


Show me an official map of Israel without those phony armistice lines.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> (_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?
> 
> (_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.
> 
> If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:
> 
> "Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
> The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
> *(NOTE) *
> _International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> _
> _•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
> *In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either. Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel uses peaceful means like airplanes, bombs, missiles, tanks,...
Click to expand...


Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos from another camp posted on Facebook by the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs showed a large map of "Palestine" that erased Israel painted by girls in the camp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Posted text:* "Pictures from the summer camps of 2017
> The Wonderful [Girls] of Palestine [Summer] Camp
> Asira Al-Shimaliya - Nablus"
> [Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs, Aug. 7, 2017]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA summer camps teach terror and Martyrdom-death for kids - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> Show me an official map of Israel without those phony armistice lines.
Click to expand...


Ancient Israel in archaeology The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos from another camp posted on Facebook by the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs showed a large map of "Palestine" that erased Israel painted by girls in the camp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Posted text:* "Pictures from the summer camps of 2017
> The Wonderful [Girls] of Palestine [Summer] Camp
> Asira Al-Shimaliya - Nablus"
> [Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs, Aug. 7, 2017]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA summer camps teach terror and Martyrdom-death for kids - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> Show me an official map of Israel without those phony armistice lines.
Click to expand...


Israel in the Old Testament


----------



## JoelT1

Israel in the New Testament


----------



## JoelT1

Palestine does not appear in archaeology. Israel does
Palestine does not appear in the Old Testament. Israel does
Palestine does not appear in the New Testament. Israel does


----------



## JoelT1

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> The question as to why they are not laws, is that they do not direct any particular action to be taken; nor do they prohibit any particular action.  These two things lea you directly to why the Resolutions are not enforceable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of these are enforceable Resolutions; and neither are laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Rocco, now you are getting deep into Israeli bullshit territory. UN General Assembly resolutions are non binding but the international laws they reference are binding.
> 
> You are just trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> (_a_)  WHAT is the right to self-determination without external interference?
> 
> (_b_)  WHAT is the right to national independence and sovereignty?​The way you employ these two resolution, promulgated in 1974, is to suggest that someone ---- somehow ---- denied these rights to the Arab Palestinian.  But it does not actually make that accusation.
> 
> If you examine the UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Acknowledgement of the Proclamation of the State of Palestine (1988), you will notice that it says:
> 
> "Aware of the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council in line with General Assembly resolution 181 (II) _*and in exercise of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people*_,"​
> The two resolutions you cite serve to remind the Palestinians that they have options ⇒ that only they can fulfill their rights and expectation.  The State of Israel could not then, or at any time Declare Independence for the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Further, Resolution 43/177 assert strongly and publicly that some effort "needs to be made to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967."  This is made difficult by the fact that "the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) of Palestine sent to the United Nations a formal _*declaration of war*_ (A/AC.21/10) in “self-defense” against any attempt to partition the Holy Land." (See:  UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION DAILY NEWS SUMMARY – 10, dated 7 February 1948)
> 
> "In a letter to the Secretary-General signed by Isa Nakleh, the committee declared that the Arabs would fight “to the last man” against any force going to Palestine to partition that country,” and charged the United States with having exercised “flagrant interference and pressure” to force votes favoring partition. (Browne; N.Y. Times)"​
> *(NOTE) *
> _International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> _
> _•  International Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> •  Non-international Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II._​
> *In the last 20 years, that Arab Palestinian has made no attempt at a good faith effort in the settle or their disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter. *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either.  Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.  Building and expanding Jewish only settlements in occupied territories is good faith or peaceful means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can say Israel has either. Where the Palestinians have used violence, Israel has used the power of its state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel uses peaceful means like airplanes, bombs, missiles, tanks,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace
Click to expand...


Bill Clinton: Hamas fires rockets from hospitals, schools, populated areas Bill Clinton: 'I killed myself to give Palestinians a state'


----------



## JoelT1

Son of Hamas: Hamas wants death


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> It has made SOME.


I listed a bunch of them.  I listed enough that it SHOULD have solved the conflict.  Did you want to list the steps toward peace that the Palestinians have made?  



> They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides,


It gave them everything they ask for including Jerusalem and control over ALL the Jewish holy sites (and THAT will never happen again), and an equal amount of territory to swap for areas of significant Jewish habitation, and a temporary demilitarization with an exchange that Israel will protect them in the event of an external attack AND a right of return for more than 10,000 Palestinians.

In what way is this unfair, uneven or lacking?  What more could they possibly want or ask for?  Seriously?  What else could Israel GIVE that wouldn't be an invitation to Israel's destruction?



> A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.


Whims?  You mean whims like preventing the importation of weapons that will be used indiscriminately against innocent Israeli civilians?  Whims?  Seriously?  If Gaze or an eventual Palestine want peace and prosperity they have to ACT with peace and prosperity.  That means a gradual release of security precautions happens AFTER a set amount of time with NO security or peace problems.  International law suggests one year free from attacks is a good starting point.  



> You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.


Really?  Do you think any of my comments are not factual?  If so, name the untruth.  I didn't claim any altruism.  I literally just made a list of all the things Israel has actually DONE.




> For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.


All true.  So?  Israel withdrew.  Israel effectively granted complete control over Gaza to the Arab Palestinians.  And yet STILL everyone whines that Israel was in the wrong or that Israel hasn't done enough?  Really?




> I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.


No, it actually doesn't.  

1.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is not "Palestinian land".
2.  It doesn't confiscate anything because there have been no new settlements in more than 20 years.
3.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the presence of Jews does not preclude sovereignty by Arab Palestine.
4.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the negotiations haven't happened yet and many outcomes are possible.
5.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is fully in keeping with the treaty signed by the Palestinian representative.
6.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it involves only a tiny fraction of the Arab Palestinian people.



> There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.


Really?  People talk alot about Israel's "real" intentions (which are almost always in direct contradiction to her actions).  See the Jewish REAL intentions is considered some sort of evil idea which is sneaky and underhanded.  Something inherently wrong or evil.  What do you think Israel's REAL intentions are?



> By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.


List them and I will respond.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It was the Palestinians who were attacked.



Look!  There's a Jew!  I see a Jew!  We are under attack!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has made SOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I listed a bunch of them.  I listed enough that it SHOULD have solved the conflict.  Did you want to list the steps toward peace that the Palestinians have made?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It gave them everything they ask for including Jerusalem and control over ALL the Jewish holy sites (and THAT will never happen again), and an equal amount of territory to swap for areas of significant Jewish habitation, and a temporary demilitarization with an exchange that Israel will protect them in the event of an external attack AND a right of return for more than 10,000 Palestinians.
> 
> In what way is this unfair, uneven or lacking?  What more could they possibly want or ask for?  Seriously?  What else could Israel GIVE that wouldn't be an invitation to Israel's destruction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whims?  You mean whims like preventing the importation of weapons that will be used indiscriminately against innocent Israeli civilians?  Whims?  Seriously?  If Gaze or an eventual Palestine want peace and prosperity they have to ACT with peace and prosperity.  That means a gradual release of security precautions happens AFTER a set amount of time with NO security or peace problems.  International law suggests one year free from attacks is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Do you think any of my comments are not factual?  If so, name the untruth.  I didn't claim any altruism.  I literally just made a list of all the things Israel has actually DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All true.  So?  Israel withdrew.  Israel effectively granted complete control over Gaza to the Arab Palestinians.  And yet STILL everyone whines that Israel was in the wrong or that Israel hasn't done enough?  Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it actually doesn't.
> 
> 1.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is not "Palestinian land".
> 2.  It doesn't confiscate anything because there have been no new settlements in more than 20 years.
> 3.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the presence of Jews does not preclude sovereignty by Arab Palestine.
> 4.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the negotiations haven't happened yet and many outcomes are possible.
> 5.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is fully in keeping with the treaty signed by the Palestinian representative.
> 6.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it involves only a tiny fraction of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  People talk alot about Israel's "real" intentions (which are almost always in direct contradiction to her actions).  See the Jewish REAL intentions is considered some sort of evil idea which is sneaky and underhanded.  Something inherently wrong or evil.  What do you think Israel's REAL intentions are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> List them and I will respond.
Click to expand...

Keep Jerusalem.
Keep settlements.
Keep the Jordan Valley.
Keep everything it has stolen.
Refugees are off the table.
Water is off the table.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Keep Jerusalem.
> Keep settlements.
> Keep the Jordan Valley.
> Keep everything it has stolen.
> Refugees are off the table.
> Water is off the table.



None of those are pre-conditions.  None of those are conditions required to be in place before the start of negotiations.  They are assumed starting points from the Israeli side.  And poorly presented at that.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has made SOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I listed a bunch of them.  I listed enough that it SHOULD have solved the conflict.  Did you want to list the steps toward peace that the Palestinians have made?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It gave them everything they ask for including Jerusalem and control over ALL the Jewish holy sites (and THAT will never happen again), and an equal amount of territory to swap for areas of significant Jewish habitation, and a temporary demilitarization with an exchange that Israel will protect them in the event of an external attack AND a right of return for more than 10,000 Palestinians.
> 
> In what way is this unfair, uneven or lacking?  What more could they possibly want or ask for?  Seriously?  What else could Israel GIVE that wouldn't be an invitation to Israel's destruction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whims?  You mean whims like preventing the importation of weapons that will be used indiscriminately against innocent Israeli civilians?  Whims?  Seriously?  If Gaze or an eventual Palestine want peace and prosperity they have to ACT with peace and prosperity.  That means a gradual release of security precautions happens AFTER a set amount of time with NO security or peace problems.  International law suggests one year free from attacks is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Do you think any of my comments are not factual?  If so, name the untruth.  I didn't claim any altruism.  I literally just made a list of all the things Israel has actually DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All true.  So?  Israel withdrew.  Israel effectively granted complete control over Gaza to the Arab Palestinians.  And yet STILL everyone whines that Israel was in the wrong or that Israel hasn't done enough?  Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it actually doesn't.
> 
> 1.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is not "Palestinian land".
> 2.  It doesn't confiscate anything because there have been no new settlements in more than 20 years.
> 3.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the presence of Jews does not preclude sovereignty by Arab Palestine.
> 4.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the negotiations haven't happened yet and many outcomes are possible.
> 5.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is fully in keeping with the treaty signed by the Palestinian representative.
> 6.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it involves only a tiny fraction of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  People talk alot about Israel's "real" intentions (which are almost always in direct contradiction to her actions).  See the Jewish REAL intentions is considered some sort of evil idea which is sneaky and underhanded.  Something inherently wrong or evil.  What do you think Israel's REAL intentions are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> List them and I will respond.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep Jerusalem.
> Keep settlements.
> Keep the Jordan Valley.
> Keep everything it has stolen.
> Refugees are off the table.
> Water is off the table.
Click to expand...


Jews are the indigenous People of Israel for thousands of years Houses of Ancient Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has made SOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I listed a bunch of them.  I listed enough that it SHOULD have solved the conflict.  Did you want to list the steps toward peace that the Palestinians have made?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It gave them everything they ask for including Jerusalem and control over ALL the Jewish holy sites (and THAT will never happen again), and an equal amount of territory to swap for areas of significant Jewish habitation, and a temporary demilitarization with an exchange that Israel will protect them in the event of an external attack AND a right of return for more than 10,000 Palestinians.
> 
> In what way is this unfair, uneven or lacking?  What more could they possibly want or ask for?  Seriously?  What else could Israel GIVE that wouldn't be an invitation to Israel's destruction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whims?  You mean whims like preventing the importation of weapons that will be used indiscriminately against innocent Israeli civilians?  Whims?  Seriously?  If Gaze or an eventual Palestine want peace and prosperity they have to ACT with peace and prosperity.  That means a gradual release of security precautions happens AFTER a set amount of time with NO security or peace problems.  International law suggests one year free from attacks is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Do you think any of my comments are not factual?  If so, name the untruth.  I didn't claim any altruism.  I literally just made a list of all the things Israel has actually DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All true.  So?  Israel withdrew.  Israel effectively granted complete control over Gaza to the Arab Palestinians.  And yet STILL everyone whines that Israel was in the wrong or that Israel hasn't done enough?  Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it actually doesn't.
> 
> 1.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is not "Palestinian land".
> 2.  It doesn't confiscate anything because there have been no new settlements in more than 20 years.
> 3.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the presence of Jews does not preclude sovereignty by Arab Palestine.
> 4.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the negotiations haven't happened yet and many outcomes are possible.
> 5.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is fully in keeping with the treaty signed by the Palestinian representative.
> 6.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it involves only a tiny fraction of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  People talk alot about Israel's "real" intentions (which are almost always in direct contradiction to her actions).  See the Jewish REAL intentions is considered some sort of evil idea which is sneaky and underhanded.  Something inherently wrong or evil.  What do you think Israel's REAL intentions are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> List them and I will respond.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep Jerusalem.
> Keep settlements.
> Keep the Jordan Valley.
> Keep everything it has stolen.
> Refugees are off the table.
> Water is off the table.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews are the indigenous People of Israel for thousands of years Houses of Ancient Israel
Click to expand...

Are you still doing Israeli talking points?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has made SOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I listed a bunch of them.  I listed enough that it SHOULD have solved the conflict.  Did you want to list the steps toward peace that the Palestinians have made?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It gave them everything they ask for including Jerusalem and control over ALL the Jewish holy sites (and THAT will never happen again), and an equal amount of territory to swap for areas of significant Jewish habitation, and a temporary demilitarization with an exchange that Israel will protect them in the event of an external attack AND a right of return for more than 10,000 Palestinians.
> 
> In what way is this unfair, uneven or lacking?  What more could they possibly want or ask for?  Seriously?  What else could Israel GIVE that wouldn't be an invitation to Israel's destruction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whims?  You mean whims like preventing the importation of weapons that will be used indiscriminately against innocent Israeli civilians?  Whims?  Seriously?  If Gaze or an eventual Palestine want peace and prosperity they have to ACT with peace and prosperity.  That means a gradual release of security precautions happens AFTER a set amount of time with NO security or peace problems.  International law suggests one year free from attacks is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Do you think any of my comments are not factual?  If so, name the untruth.  I didn't claim any altruism.  I literally just made a list of all the things Israel has actually DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All true.  So?  Israel withdrew.  Israel effectively granted complete control over Gaza to the Arab Palestinians.  And yet STILL everyone whines that Israel was in the wrong or that Israel hasn't done enough?  Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it actually doesn't.
> 
> 1.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is not "Palestinian land".
> 2.  It doesn't confiscate anything because there have been no new settlements in more than 20 years.
> 3.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the presence of Jews does not preclude sovereignty by Arab Palestine.
> 4.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the negotiations haven't happened yet and many outcomes are possible.
> 5.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is fully in keeping with the treaty signed by the Palestinian representative.
> 6.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it involves only a tiny fraction of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  People talk alot about Israel's "real" intentions (which are almost always in direct contradiction to her actions).  See the Jewish REAL intentions is considered some sort of evil idea which is sneaky and underhanded.  Something inherently wrong or evil.  What do you think Israel's REAL intentions are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> List them and I will respond.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep Jerusalem.
> Keep settlements.
> Keep the Jordan Valley.
> Keep everything it has stolen.
> Refugees are off the table.
> Water is off the table.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews are the indigenous People of Israel for thousands of years Houses of Ancient Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still doing Israeli talking points?
Click to expand...


Harvard Semitic Museum: Houses of Ancient Israel Houses of Ancient Israel


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Are you still doing Israeli talking points?



Still rambling on about the same irrelevant, boring stuff.  Sigh.  Zzzzzzzzzz.  (Him, not you).


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Keep Jerusalem.
> Keep settlements.
> Keep the Jordan Valley.
> Keep everything it has stolen.
> Refugees are off the table.
> Water is off the table.



*Did Arabs ever had a capital in Jerusalem? I think they built Ramallah 30km away specifically for that.
* We let the Arabs keep their settlement.
*Jordan was given wholly to Arabs, how much is Jordan bigger than Israel?
* Nothing was stolen. War is war, especially sectarian - Palestinian Arabs initiated it.
* Refugees were not off the table -  Hamas/PLO version of flooding Israel with millions of Arabs, while at the same time cleansing Palestine of  Jews is an illusion You will never be able to sell or realize. 
* Water is not off the table. What Palestinians need is reconstruction of infrastructure instead of building tunnels for smuggling weapons and using pipes for rockets. Simple math.

Are slogans Your only solution?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The PA, following the Oslo Accords.....NOT ]

At another camp organized by the National Committee for Summer Camps, a drawing of the PA's map of "Palestine" was accompanied by the following text, emphasizing both in pictures and in "data" that there is no State of Israel:









*Text next to map:* "Palestine
Location: The continent of Asia, eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea
Territory: 27,009 square kilometers (the combined size of Israel and the PA areas is roughly 27,000 square kilometers -Ed.)
Borders of Palestine: Lebanon on the north
The Gulf of Aqaba and Egypt on the south
Jordan on the east
The Mediterranean Sea on the west"
[Posted on the Facebook page of the National Committee for Summer Camps, Aug. 2, 2017]

(full article online)

PA summer camps teach terror and Martyrdom-death for kids - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ The PA, following the Oslo Accords.....NOT ]
> 
> At another camp organized by the National Committee for Summer Camps, a drawing of the PA's map of "Palestine" was accompanied by the following text, emphasizing both in pictures and in "data" that there is no State of Israel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Text next to map:* "Palestine
> Location: The continent of Asia, eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea
> Territory: 27,009 square kilometers (the combined size of Israel and the PA areas is roughly 27,000 square kilometers -Ed.)
> Borders of Palestine: Lebanon on the north
> The Gulf of Aqaba and Egypt on the south
> Jordan on the east
> The Mediterranean Sea on the west"
> [Posted on the Facebook page of the National Committee for Summer Camps, Aug. 2, 2017]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA summer camps teach terror and Martyrdom-death for kids - PMW Bulletins





Sixties Fan said:


> Borders of Palestine: Lebanon on the north
> The Gulf of Aqaba and Egypt on the south
> Jordan on the east
> The Mediterranean Sea on the west"


That is correct. Those are the borders of Palestine according to the *1949 *UN Armistice agreements. (That Israel signed.)


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has made SOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I listed a bunch of them.  I listed enough that it SHOULD have solved the conflict.  Did you want to list the steps toward peace that the Palestinians have made?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did not give them everything they asked for But Olmert' plan might have eventually been negotiated into something acceptable to both sides,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It gave them everything they ask for including Jerusalem and control over ALL the Jewish holy sites (and THAT will never happen again), and an equal amount of territory to swap for areas of significant Jewish habitation, and a temporary demilitarization with an exchange that Israel will protect them in the event of an external attack AND a right of return for more than 10,000 Palestinians.
> 
> In what way is this unfair, uneven or lacking?  What more could they possibly want or ask for?  Seriously?  What else could Israel GIVE that wouldn't be an invitation to Israel's destruction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestine state would not have free access to its own international borders and that would leave its economy and ability to conduct trade up to the whims of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whims?  You mean whims like preventing the importation of weapons that will be used indiscriminately against innocent Israeli civilians?  Whims?  Seriously?  If Gaze or an eventual Palestine want peace and prosperity they have to ACT with peace and prosperity.  That means a gradual release of security precautions happens AFTER a set amount of time with NO security or peace problems.  International law suggests one year free from attacks is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You make it sound as if Israel is an altruistic force for good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Do you think any of my comments are not factual?  If so, name the untruth.  I didn't claim any altruism.  I literally just made a list of all the things Israel has actually DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example the much proclaimed unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.  What is unsaid was Gaza was Ann expensive and politically divisive albatross around Israel's neck.  The decision was based on an economic calculus that determined the cost of protecting a few Jews in Gaza simply wasn't worth it any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All true.  So?  Israel withdrew.  Israel effectively granted complete control over Gaza to the Arab Palestinians.  And yet STILL everyone whines that Israel was in the wrong or that Israel hasn't done enough?  Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree it is only an excuse.  Maybe that is so in the eyes of the Israelis but to the Palestinians it represents the gradual confiscation of the area they hope to have as a future state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it actually doesn't.
> 
> 1.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is not "Palestinian land".
> 2.  It doesn't confiscate anything because there have been no new settlements in more than 20 years.
> 3.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the presence of Jews does not preclude sovereignty by Arab Palestine.
> 4.  It doesn't confiscate anything because the negotiations haven't happened yet and many outcomes are possible.
> 5.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it is fully in keeping with the treaty signed by the Palestinian representative.
> 6.  It doesn't confiscate anything because it involves only a tiny fraction of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a gulf of mistrust of motivations layered in as well.  What you call an excuse is seen as proof of israel's real intentions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  People talk alot about Israel's "real" intentions (which are almost always in direct contradiction to her actions).  See the Jewish REAL intentions is considered some sort of evil idea which is sneaky and underhanded.  Something inherently wrong or evil.  What do you think Israel's REAL intentions are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way ... Israel has also insisted on preconditions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> List them and I will respond.
Click to expand...


I will try and respond at more length but I'm short on time.  So for the moment, a couple of things:

Could Olmert have delivered something that would undoubted be unpalatable to the bulk of the Israeli politic?  

Secondly...I said from the Palestinian view, put yourselves in their shoes. They certainly see it as their land taken in a war and never returned.  Who's view is right?   A lot of arguments for both sides there and most of these issues don't involve facts but deep emotional ties to the same bit of land.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part of Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> I think there is a hint there.
Click to expand...

Why can't the Jews have sovereignty too?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

•  Palestine Liberation Organization (Founded 1964)  •

Until 1993, the only promoted option was armed struggle. From the signing of the Oslo Accords, negotiation and diplomacy became the only official policy. I​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> From that point, until the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians rejected any peace agreements.
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO offered a peace agreement in the early 70s where there would be one secular state with equal rights for all people including the Jews.
> 
> Israel rejected the offer because they wanted to pig the place for themselves.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

A lot of people say that, but the Arab Palestinians_ (the PLO Specifically) _did not offer forth a peace  acceeptance, treaty or agreement between 1964 and the Oslo Accords (1993).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, generally speaking, the meaning of "Palestine" does present Problems.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part of Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> I think there is a hint there.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Both the PLO (by the Palestine National Charter) and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) (by the Covenant) consider the entire landscape, formerly the territory subject to the Mandate of Palestine, is exclusively Arab.

*•   Article 2, Palestine National Charter:*
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, the feared British Colonialism vicariously through the Jewish National Home.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In July 1947, the Mandate Authority asked the United Nations to consider the report on the irreconcilable differences, and to recommend a settlement of the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Between a colonial project and the Palestinians.
> 
> They had two reports. One would have lead to peace and one that lead to war.
> 
> They chose war.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."  That is just a Palestinian Dogma to incite violence.  Even the 24 Committee knows better.

Yes, the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) submitted two recommendations for consideration.  The UN selected what became known as A/RES/181(II) (AKA: The Partition Plan)...

Remember, the original intent → by the Allied Powers → who had the authority to make the determination on the "Future of Palestine" → called for the establishment of a Jewish National Home; and Jordan, East of the Jordan River.  The recommendation selected setup the framework for an Arab State, a Jewish State, and Jerusalem separate.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> •  Palestine Liberation Organization (Founded 1964)  •
> 
> Until 1993, the only promoted option was armed struggle. From the signing of the Oslo Accords, negotiation and diplomacy became the only official policy. I​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> From that point, until the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians rejected any peace agreements.
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO offered a peace agreement in the early 70s where there would be one secular state with equal rights for all people including the Jews.
> 
> Israel rejected the offer because they wanted to pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A lot of people say that, but the Arab Palestinians_ (the PLO Specifically) _did not offer forth a peace  acceeptance, treaty or agreement between 1964 and the Oslo Accords (1993).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In 1969, for example, the PLO proposed the establishment of a binational state over the whole of the former British Mandate territory.

The fifth national council of the Palestine Liberation Organisation in February 1969 passed a resolution confirming that the PLO's objective was "to establish a free and democratic society in Palestine for all Palestinians whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews".

History of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep Jerusalem.
> Keep settlements.
> Keep the Jordan Valley.
> Keep everything it has stolen.
> Refugees are off the table.
> Water is off the table.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Did Arabs ever had a capital in Jerusalem? I think they built Ramallah 30km away specifically for that.
> * We let the Arabs keep their settlement.
> *Jordan was given wholly to Arabs, how much is Jordan bigger than Israel?
> * Nothing was stolen. War is war, especially sectarian - Palestinian Arabs initiated it.
> * Refugees were not off the table -  Hamas/PLO version of flooding Israel with millions of Arabs, while at the same time cleansing Palestine of  Jews is an illusion You will never be able to sell or realize.
> * Water is not off the table. What Palestinians need is reconstruction of infrastructure instead of building tunnels for smuggling weapons and using pipes for rockets. Simple math.
> 
> Are slogans Your only solution?
Click to expand...


Jerusalem has never been an Arab or Muslim Capital. Not even an administrive center. Jerusalem doesn’t appear in the Koran


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> •  Palestine Liberation Organization (Founded 1964)  •
> 
> Until 1993, the only promoted option was armed struggle. From the signing of the Oslo Accords, negotiation and diplomacy became the only official policy. I​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> From that point, until the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians rejected any peace agreements.
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO offered a peace agreement in the early 70s where there would be one secular state with equal rights for all people including the Jews.
> 
> Israel rejected the offer because they wanted to pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A lot of people say that, but the Arab Palestinians_ (the PLO Specifically) _did not offer forth a peace  acceeptance, treaty or agreement between 1964 and the Oslo Accords (1993).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 1969, for example, the PLO proposed the establishment of a binational state over the whole of the former British Mandate territory.
> 
> The fifth national council of the Palestine Liberation Organisation in February 1969 passed a resolution confirming that the PLO's objective was "to establish a free and democratic society in Palestine for all Palestinians whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews".
> 
> History of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Palestine liberation Funny! Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel LOL


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, generally speaking, the meaning of "Palestine" does present Problems.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part of Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> I think there is a hint there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Both the PLO (by the Palestine National Charter) and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) (by the Covenant) consider the entire landscape, formerly the territory subject to the Mandate of Palestine, is exclusively Arab.
> 
> *•   Article 2, Palestine National Charter:*
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

Yes, the "Colonial Project" whining.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where is it that the Palestinians were faced with a colonial project.
> 
> What are the legalities of that?


*(COMMENT)*

That is simply an illusion by the illiterate.  The is nothing in the Middle East that is currently listed as a 
Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT); subject to the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples _(also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24)_ --- General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."


Do you have any proof for your assertion?


----------



## JoelT1

History Lesson: Palestine, Roman name imposed on Jews’ land


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
Click to expand...


Britain named the British Mandate “palestine”


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain named the British Mandate “palestine”
Click to expand...

Britain called it Palestine because that was what it was.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain named the British Mandate “palestine”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain called it Palestine because that was what it was.
Click to expand...


Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land. Britain called the British Mandate “palestine” ⤵️


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

This is another one of those nebulous claims.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian decided it was in their best interest to choose conflict
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Palestinians who were attacked.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What _(presumably Jewish)_ military force attacked what Palestinian Government?   When was this alleged attack?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This was actually a One-State Solution, with the Arab Majority in power.



P F Tinmore said:


> This proposal was rejected by Israel, as it would have amounted to the disbanding of the state of Israel.



*(COMMENT)*

This was an ffer to dismantle the Jewish State.  It was not a Peace Settlement.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain named the British Mandate “palestine”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain called it Palestine because that was what it was.
Click to expand...


History Lesson: “For Arabs, there was no country called palestine” ⤵️


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This is another strange Arab Palestinian Notion thing.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•   Article 2, Palestine National Charter:*
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The "right to Territorial Integrity" ASSUMES that there is some sovereign territory to have integrity over.

What territory did the Arab Palestinians have sovereignty over in which the integrity was violated?

ANSWER:  None

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Yes, the "Colonial Project" whining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is it that the Palestinians were faced with a colonial project.
> 
> What are the legalities of that?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That is simply an illusion by the illiterate.  The is nothing in the Middle East that is currently listed as a
> Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT); subject to the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples _(also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24)_ --- General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Reaffirming the importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, national sovereignty and territorial integrity and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples as imperatives for the full enjoyment of all human rights,

 12.  Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> Yes, the "Colonial Project" whining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is it that the Palestinians were faced with a colonial project.
> 
> What are the legalities of that?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That is simply an illusion by the illiterate.  The is nothing in the Middle East that is currently listed as a
> Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT); subject to the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples _(also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24)_ --- General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reaffirming the importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, national sovereignty and territorial integrity and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples as imperatives for the full enjoyment of all human rights,
> 
> 12.  Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
Click to expand...


Um, there are 22 Arab countries


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs admit: “Palestinians” are a hoax Palestinian people do not exist


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This was actually a One-State Solution, with the Arab Majority in power.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This proposal was rejected by Israel, as it would have amounted to the disbanding of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This was an ffer to dismantle the Jewish State.  It was not a Peace Settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So any offer to dismantle Palestine is not a peace Settlement?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This was actually a One-State Solution, with the Arab Majority in power.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This proposal was rejected by Israel, as it would have amounted to the disbanding of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This was an ffer to dismantle the Jewish State.  It was not a Peace Settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So any offer to dismantle Palestine is not a peace Settlement?
Click to expand...


Palestine was a Western colonial creation. Britain’s temporary name for the British Mandate, based on Roman Empire’s name for ancient Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anti-Israel, pro-BDS groups whitewash the obstructionism of the Palestinian Authority and the cynical use of the Ja’alin and Nawajah families as pawns in the PA’s corrupt game.

(full article online)

Sussiya and Khan al Akhmar: Truth and lies


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I just gave it to you.  Example: 

•  Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples
A/55/497  20 October 2000​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

For this year, see the following table Page 5: 

•  TERRITORIES TO WHICH THE DECLARATION ON THE GRANTING 
OF INDEPENDENCE TO COLONIAL COUNTRIES AND PEOPLES 
CONTINUES TO APPLY (AS OF 2016)


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> This is another one of those nebulous claims.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian decided it was in their best interest to choose conflict
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Palestinians who were attacked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What _(presumably Jewish)_ military force attacked what Palestinian Government?   When was this alleged attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

British military, Zionist gangs, IDF attacking Palestinian civilians. Starting around1917 and continuing today.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_
> 
> This is another one of those nebulous claims.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian decided it was in their best interest to choose conflict
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Palestinians who were attacked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What _(presumably Jewish)_ military force attacked what Palestinian Government?   When was this alleged attack?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> British military, Zionist gangs, IDF attacking Palestinian civilians. Starting around1917 and continuing today.
Click to expand...


Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British who made-up the fake name ⤵️


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I just gave it to you.  Example:
> 
> •  Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples
> A/55/497  20 October 2000​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For this year, see the following table Page 5:
> 
> •  TERRITORIES TO WHICH THE DECLARATION ON THE GRANTING
> OF INDEPENDENCE TO COLONIAL COUNTRIES AND PEOPLES
> CONTINUES TO APPLY (AS OF 2016)
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I see that the UN disagrees with itself.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _ et al,_

Like all political persuasion:  
*This Resolution Does Not Say What You Think It Says!*



P F Tinmore said:


> Reaffirming the importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, national sovereignty and territorial integrity and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples as imperatives for the full enjoyment of all human rights,
> 
> 12.  Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights


*(COMMENT)*

Nothing issued by the UN has ever directly said that there are territories in the Middle East where the Resolution identifies colonial holdings.

You will not find the resolution saying that the "territories occupied since 1967" are colonial holdings.  All the resolution says is that people have these rights.  As do all people everywhere.

BUT when you actually go to the Listing in which the UN directly identifies the Administering Powers having colonial territories, you will NOT FIND:


Israel listed as an Administering Power.
Any Middle eastern territory to which the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Counties and Peoples  continues to apply.
Palestine or any subdivision associated with Palestine listed as a Colonial Holding.
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is another strange Arab Palestinian Notion thing.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•   Article 2, Palestine National Charter:*
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "right to Territorial Integrity" ASSUMES that there is some sovereign territory to have integrity over.
> 
> What territory did the Arab Palestinians have sovereignty over in which the integrity was violated?
> 
> ANSWER:  None
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof for your assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain named the British Mandate “palestine”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain called it Palestine because that was what it was.
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Ancient palestine never existed ⤵️


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is another strange Arab Palestinian Notion thing.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•   Article 2, Palestine National Charter:*
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "right to Territorial Integrity" ASSUMES that there is some sovereign territory to have integrity over.
> 
> What territory did the Arab Palestinians have sovereignty over in which the integrity was violated?
> 
> ANSWER:  None
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.
Click to expand...


Arab-American journalist Joseph Farah: Palestinians Do Not Exist http://www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is another strange Arab Palestinian Notion thing.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•   Article 2, Palestine National Charter:*
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "right to Territorial Integrity" ASSUMES that there is some sovereign territory to have integrity over.
> 
> What territory did the Arab Palestinians have sovereignty over in which the integrity was violated?
> 
> ANSWER:  None
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.
Click to expand...


Palestine was merely Britain’s name for the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Jews were called palestinians. Arabs refused to acknowledge palestine a Western invention ⤵️


----------



## Sixties Fan

Union threatened Palestinian artists with expulsion if they engaged in "normalization" with Israel - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians, like Al-Husseini (The Farhoud in Baghdad in 1942) and the Palestinian mentioned in this article, seem to have the need to travel outside of Palestine to kill Jews.  Why? ]

More than 450 people were scheduled to attend a bar mitzvah at Istanbul’s Neve Shalom Synagogue on September 6, 1986 — but the congregants’ prayers were short-lived.

On that day, terrorists working with Palestinian militant Abu Nidal, opened fire with automatic weapons inside the synagogue, killing 22 people, before dousing their bodies with gasoline and setting them on fire.

Among the casualties were three Persian Jews, including one of my relatives — Mizrah Babazadeh.

(full article online)

The Neve Shalom Synagogue Massacre in Turkey


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Palestinians, like Al-Husseini (The Farhoud in Baghdad in 1942) and the Palestinian mentioned in this article, seem to have the need to travel outside of Palestine to kill Jews.  Why? ]
> 
> More than 450 people were scheduled to attend a bar mitzvah at Istanbul’s Neve Shalom Synagogue on September 6, 1986 — but the congregants’ prayers were short-lived.
> 
> On that day, terrorists working with Palestinian militant Abu Nidal, opened fire with automatic weapons inside the synagogue, killing 22 people, before dousing their bodies with gasoline and setting them on fire.
> 
> Among the casualties were three Persian Jews, including one of my relatives — Mizrah Babazadeh.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Neve Shalom Synagogue Massacre in Turkey



Most Arabs in the British Mandate called “palestine” entered illegally from other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian,

Churchill, who functioned as Prime Minister of British “palestine”, spoke of the Arab invasion. He won a Nobel Prize for historical literature. ⤵️


----------



## fanger

The *Churchill White Paper* of 3 June 1922, officially *Correspondence with the Palestine Arab Delegation and the Zionist Organisation* was drafted at request of Sir Winston Churchill in response to the 1921 Jaffa Riots which began with intra-Jewish violence escalated into Arab attacks against Jews. Although the attacks were primarily facilitated by the Arabs, the British White Paper concluded that the violence was sparked by resentment towards Jewish Zionists and the perceived favoritism towards them by the British, as well as Arab fears of subjugation. While maintaining Britain's commitment to the Balfour declaration and its promise of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, "internationally guaranteed" and "recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection," the paper emphasized that the establishment of a Jewish National Home would not impose a Jewish nationality on the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, and "the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian".[1] To reduce tensions between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine the paper called for a limitation of Jewish immigration to "the economic capacity of the country to absorb new arrivals".[2] This limitation was considered a great setback to many in the Zionist movement,[3] though unlike the later White Paper of 1939, it acknowledged the necessity that "the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration", "as of right not of sufferance".
Churchill White Paper - Wikipedia


----------



## JoelT1

fanger said:


> The *Churchill White Paper* of 3 June 1922, officially *Correspondence with the Palestine Arab Delegation and the Zionist Organisation* was drafted at request of Sir Winston Churchill in response to the 1921 Jaffa Riots which began with intra-Jewish violence escalated into Arab attacks against Jews. Although the attacks were primarily facilitated by the Arabs, the British White Paper concluded that the violence was sparked by resentment towards Jewish Zionists and the perceived favoritism towards them by the British, as well as Arab fears of subjugation. While maintaining Britain's commitment to the Balfour declaration and its promise of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, "internationally guaranteed" and "recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection," the paper emphasized that the establishment of a Jewish National Home would not impose a Jewish nationality on the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, and "the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian".[1] To reduce tensions between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine the paper called for a limitation of Jewish immigration to "the economic capacity of the country to absorb new arrivals".[2] This limitation was considered a great setback to many in the Zionist movement,[3] though unlike the later White Paper of 1939, it acknowledged the necessity that "the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration", "as of right not of sufferance".
> Churchill White Paper - Wikipedia



Palestine originated as a Roman name for Jews’ land, about 2000 years ago. Ancient Israel existed 500+ years before Rome. And Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British ⤵️

Modern palestinians are merely Arabs originating from Arabia.


----------



## JoelT1

fanger said:


> The *Churchill White Paper* of 3 June 1922, officially *Correspondence with the Palestine Arab Delegation and the Zionist Organisation* was drafted at request of Sir Winston Churchill in response to the 1921 Jaffa Riots which began with intra-Jewish violence escalated into Arab attacks against Jews. Although the attacks were primarily facilitated by the Arabs, the British White Paper concluded that the violence was sparked by resentment towards Jewish Zionists and the perceived favoritism towards them by the British, as well as Arab fears of subjugation. While maintaining Britain's commitment to the Balfour declaration and its promise of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, "internationally guaranteed" and "recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection," the paper emphasized that the establishment of a Jewish National Home would not impose a Jewish nationality on the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, and "the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian".[1] To reduce tensions between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine the paper called for a limitation of Jewish immigration to "the economic capacity of the country to absorb new arrivals".[2] This limitation was considered a great setback to many in the Zionist movement,[3] though unlike the later White Paper of 1939, it acknowledged the necessity that "the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration", "as of right not of sufferance".
> Churchill White Paper - Wikipedia



Zion is the Biblical reference to Israel, making Zionism an ancient ideology predating Islam by thousands of years

UNESCO-certified ancient Jewish landmark in ancient Israel Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Ghassan Daghles, monitoring Israeli settlement activity in the north of the West Bank, told WAFA settlers coming from 'Eli’ and 'Shilo’; two illegal Israeli settlements located along Nablus-Ramallah highway, attacked Palestinians harvesting olives in the village of Qaruot.

Locals scuffled with settlers and managed to fend off their attack. No injuries were reported."


Yisrael Medad, who lives in Shiloh, checked out the story and it is complete fiction.

Long time readers of the blog may recognize the name of the person who made this accusation, Ghassan Daghlas. 

Over the years, his accusations have been published in Arab media - almost invariably without a single photo or video to corroborate his accusations.

He is literally paid by the Palestinian Authority to make up these stories. His job is to "monitor Israeli settler activity." And he knows that no one will check his stories.

(full story online)

Time for the annual olive harvest lies by the Palestinian Authority ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Secondly...I said from the Palestinian view, put yourselves in their shoes. They certainly see it as their land taken in a war and never returned.



Don't you see?  I AM putting myself in their shoes.  The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing.  Their land was taken in war and never returned.  The only people who have rights to that land are the Jewish people.  This is true not only as a narrative, but factually true in law.  

But when the Jewish people look at that singular narrative where only one people have rights - the Jewish people find it unpalatable.  The consensus in Jewish society and Israel is, and has always been, that it is morally wrong to view only one people as having rights or as having been harmed or as having had land stolen from them.  

There is only one right answer here.  BOTH peoples have rights.  BOTH peoples have been harmed.  BOTH peoples have had land stolen from them.  The only morally correct answer here is an arrangement which somehow shares the land. The Jewish people have known and accepted this for a hundred years. 



> Who's view is right?   A lot of arguments for both sides there and most of these issues don't involve facts but deep emotional ties to the same bit of land.


The Arab Palestinians have constructed a narrative which absolves them of all responsibility both for the conflict and for creating a solution to the conflict.  Its a narrative which denies reality.  Their view is not right.  Neither factually, nor morally.  

Examine events on the Temple Mount as evidence.  They are representative of the entire conflict.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.


The right to territorial integrity means that a State has the right not to have its borders violated by other States.  It does not prohibit the division of a State into two or more parts as outlined in a peace treaty.  Witness Yugoslavia.  Was Yugoslavia's "territorial integrity" violated when she split into the numerous new States?  Of course not.  

You are using legal terms and concepts incorrectly.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So any offer to dismantle Palestine is not a peace Settlement?



Who is offering to dismantle Palestine?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.


The Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (all of them) were citizens of territory defined by international borders.  Both peoples have the right to independence and sovereignty.  The intent was for Jordan to be the place for Arab sovereignty and Israel to be the place for Jewish sovereignty.  Failing that, the next best thing is to divide "Palestine" into two areas -- one for each to have sovereignty.  Easy peasy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity means that a State has the right not to have its borders violated by other States.  It does not prohibit the division of a State into two or more parts as outlined in a peace treaty.  Witness Yugoslavia.  Was Yugoslavia's "territorial integrity" violated when she split into the numerous new States?  Of course not.
> 
> You are using legal terms and concepts incorrectly.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and there has never been a treaty ceding any Palestinian land to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (all of them) were citizens of territory defined by international borders.  Both peoples have the right to independence and sovereignty.  The intent was for Jordan to be the place for Arab sovereignty and Israel to be the place for Jewish sovereignty.  Failing that, the next best thing is to divide "Palestine" into two areas -- one for each to have sovereignty.  Easy peasy.
Click to expand...

Easy except for those people who get the boot for living on the wrong side of the line.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.


That is the zionist narrative.



Shusha said:


> Examine events on the Temple Mount as evidence. They are representative of the entire conflict.


I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as *Haram esh-Sharif.* Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
Wailing at the wrong wall?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So any offer to dismantle Palestine is not a peace Settlement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is offering to dismantle Palestine?
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the zionist narrative.
Click to expand...


Oh please.  Tell me you are not one of those people who don't believe that the territory in question is the ancestral, historical and religious homeland of the Jewish people.  

Its the most ridiculous, absurd belief.


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the zionist narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Examine events on the Temple Mount as evidence. They are representative of the entire conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as *Haram esh-Sharif.* Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
> Wailing at the wrong wall?
Click to expand...



See what I mean, Coyote ?

The Arab narrative is that the Jewish people have no connection, no history, no ancestral claim, no monuments, no rights.  Its morally wrong.


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as *Haram esh-Sharif.* Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
> Wailing at the wrong wall?



The article you are citing gives evidence that the ENTIRE Temple Mount complex is revered and holy to the Jewish people.  It is known as Har Habayit.  

And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> Oh please. Tell me you are not one of those people who don't believe that the territory in question is the ancestral, historical and religious homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> Its the most ridiculous, absurd belief.


I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity means that a State has the right not to have its borders violated by other States.  It does not prohibit the division of a State into two or more parts as outlined in a peace treaty.  Witness Yugoslavia.  Was Yugoslavia's "territorial integrity" violated when she split into the numerous new States?  Of course not.
> 
> You are using legal terms and concepts incorrectly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and there has never been a treaty ceding any Palestinian land to Israel.
Click to expand...


We agree.  So, by your misuse of the term "territorial integrity" you are actually arguing that Israel is prohibited from ceding any territory to Arabs or anyone else.  (Which concept, oddly enough, also exists in Article 5 of the Palestine Mandate).


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.


C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be? 

The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.
> 
> Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?


----------



## fanger

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the zionist narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Tell me you are not one of those people who don't believe that the territory in question is the ancestral, historical and religious homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> Its the most ridiculous, absurd belief.
Click to expand...

While maintaining Britain's commitment to the Balfour declaration and its promise of a Jewish National Home in *Palestine*, "internationally guaranteed" and "recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection," the paper emphasized that the establishment of a Jewish National Home would not impose a Jewish nationality on the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, and "the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be *Palestinian*".


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.
> 
> Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?
Click to expand...

Instead of banging your head on the wall, you might want to try reading and then comparing what you have read with the narrative you post on every thread.


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?
Click to expand...


Really?  Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind:  The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more.  The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them.  It is their ancestral and historical home.  Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.  


Now, with that thought in mind -- where is the conflict?


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.
> 
> Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Instead of banging your head on the wall, you might want to try reading and then comparing what you have read with the narrative you post on every thread.
Click to expand...


Abi, the idea that there is NO connection between the Jewish people and the territory in question is the most absurd argument.  EVER.


----------



## abi

Your narrative.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Guest on PA TV: Hebrew word "Gilboa" is "Arabic-Canaanite-Palestinian" name stolen by Israel 
Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Mar. 16, 2017
_Official PA TV program _Palestine This Morning_, on the launching of the National Flower of Palestine – Gilboa Iris campaign, hosting Green Life Association Chairman Faisal Zakarneh

_
[ Palestinian Narrative]
*Green Life Association Chairman Faisal Zakarneh:* “This is a flower that grows in the Gilboa Mountains (i.e., in northern Israel). At this opportunity, let me explain that Gilboa is an ancient Palestinian-Canaanite-Arabic word, and not Hebrew-Israeli. This needs to be clear. In our minds [the name Gilboa] is connected to the Gilboa Prison... but the occupier has always made us used to him using our language and stealing it and its Arabic-Canaanite-Palestinian names.”


[ Historical fact ]
_Mount Gilboa has been the Hebrew name of the location since Biblical times, and notably appears in Samuel 1 Chapter 31 as the location where Saul, the first king of Israel, died in battle._


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Your narrative.



Please.  Give me a list of objective criteria for determining whether or not a people can be shown to have a connection to a historical area.  Be sure that your list of objective criteria can be applied universally.


----------



## Shusha

Here, I'll give you an example.  

What criteria would you use to demonstrate the connection of the Al-Aqsa Mosque to the Arab Palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.
> 
> Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Instead of banging your head on the wall, you might want to try reading and then comparing what you have read with the narrative you post on every thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abi, the idea that there is NO connection between the Jewish people and the territory in question is the most absurd argument.  EVER.
Click to expand...


It is possible that Abi will never understand that Jewish history does not change.  It is documented by all the invading powers to the land, and the merchants it did business with.

On the other hand, Mohammad having been in Jerusalem, 
the importance of the Temple Mount and Cave of the Patriarchs to Muslims, etc is very recent.
None of that is part of the Quran, or any Muslim history book, 
documents, observations, etc by any Muslims before WWI, literally - before the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine came to be.

Until 1964, the Arabs in Palestine thought of themselves as part of Greater Syria.  That is documented.

Until Israel took back the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, the Temple Mount was of no importance to Muslims including the Arabs of Palestine, or Israel.

Some people can call one's history a narrative (story) all they want.

The proof of the pudding is always in the evidence.  Recent or from the very far past.

How did Jews always feel towards the land of Israel and Jerusalem and the Temple Mount?

How did Muslims, Arab, Kurds, Turks, etc, always feel about the Land of Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount?


Evidence tells which one is history, and which one is narrative.


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> How did Jews always feel towards the land of Israel and Jerusalem and the Temple Mount?


I think it is far more important and far easier to discern how they feel today.

I just put a thread up for you guys on this exact thing.
I found this shocking. Why do so many Jews in Israel wish to leave?


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> It is possible that Abi will never understand that Jewish history does not change.


Of course, Abi/Louie will never understand factual evidence, because she doesn't start with factual evidence.  She, like the majority who hold a demonizing view of Jews and Israel, begins from the point of view that the Jewish people have no rights and are inherently evil and then back-builds her narrative from that point.  The only possible way to accomplish that is a wild denial of truth.  



> Until 1964, the Arabs in Palestine thought of themselves as part of Greater Syria.


The Palestinians still think of themselves as being no different than Syrians or Jordanians.  All one people.  To this day.  You've seen Corey Gil-Shuster's video on the topic?


----------



## abi

Enough already, I never said Jews had no connection, those are your words.  Here is what I said that triggered you which was an answer to your point about "the entire source of the conflict."

C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be? 

The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did Jews always feel towards the land of Israel and Jerusalem and the Temple Mount?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is far more important and far easier to discern how they feel today.
> 
> I just put a thread up for you guys on this exact thing.
> I found this shocking. Why do so many Jews in Israel wish to leave?
Click to expand...


That is a phony response.  You are trying to diminish the importance of any part of Israel for the Jews today.

As explained before, just as with citizens from any other country, people get job opportunities elsewhere for a few years, or go and check for opportunities somewhere else.
It does not mean that most of them have immigrated for good to any other country.

But that is the false appearance you are trying to create.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Enough already, I never said Jews had no connection, those are your words.  Here is what I said that triggered you which was an answer to your point about "the entire source of the conflict."
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?


You may repeat your nonsense all you like.

The indigenous people are the JEWS.  Arabs being born in the land of Israel for the past 1400 years, does not make them the indigenous people of the land, anymore than the Portuguese born in Brazil for the past 500 years, makes them indigenous of 
Brazil.

The "massive" immigration of Muslims from Bosnia, Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, etc into the land of Israel since 1892 has nothing to do with the Muslims wanting to ethnically cleanse the Jews , and succeeded in doing so, since 1920 out 
Gaza, TranJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. 
No, that ethnic cleansing is not important and has nothing to do with it.

Keep repeating your mantra.  Memorex is always useful.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is possible that Abi will never understand that Jewish history does not change.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Abi/Louie will never understand factual evidence, because she doesn't start with factual evidence.  She, like the majority who hold a demonizing view of Jews and Israel, begins from the point of view that the Jewish people have no rights and are inherently evil and then back-builds her narrative from that point.  The only possible way to accomplish that is a wild denial of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until 1964, the Arabs in Palestine thought of themselves as part of Greater Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians still think of themselves as being no different than Syrians or Jordanians.  All one people.  To this day.  You've seen Corey Gil-Shuster's video on the topic?
Click to expand...

I may have.
Could you post it here?
Abi/Louie = that would make sense


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind:  The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more.  The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them.  It is their ancestral and historical home.  Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> 
> Now, with that thought in mind -- where is the conflict?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more.


You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.

Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.

Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.

But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> I may have.
> Could you post it here?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.



How so?


----------



## Coyote

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the zionist narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Examine events on the Temple Mount as evidence. They are representative of the entire conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as *Haram esh-Sharif.* Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
> Wailing at the wrong wall?
Click to expand...


You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are.   Are you?  Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected.  I do think Israel has done a decent job there.  Can you grant them that?


----------



## Coyote

abi said:


> Enough already, I never said Jews had no connection, those are your words.  Here is what I said that triggered you which was an answer to your point about "the entire source of the conflict."
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?


What about the immigration of non Palestinian Arabs?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind:  The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more.  The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them.  It is their ancestral and historical home.  Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> 
> Now, with that thought in mind -- where is the conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.
Click to expand...

No it was not, and you are just as much a Memorex tape as Abi.

There were clans of Arabs who were for the Jews regaining their sovereignty over their ancient homeland.  They were beat up by another Arab Muslim clan, the Al- Husseini, of Arafat fame.

Had it not been for the Husseini clan, all the Arabs would have been educated to accept the future Jewish State under the Mandate for Palestine, they would have continued to get jobs created by Jews, just as they do today.

One clan is responsible for inciting all other clans into refusing a Jewish on its rightful land.

Stop with the "Zionist project" garbage.

Zionism means ONLY  - recreating a sovereign Jewish State on the ancient Jewish Homeland, WITHOUT expelling any existing population, be it Muslims or Christians.
Which is exactly what the Mandate for Palestine meant to do on all the Mandate, including TransJordan, until the Hashemites got 78% of it in 1925.

Or until the Arab violence made the British want to split the rest into two States, one for each people.  Arabs and Jews.

Cleanse your mind of this nonsense of "Zionist Project" which exists only in the mind of Jew haters.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

I am not seeing what you are responding to unless I press to reply?  Why is that ?  Do you know Coyote?  Are we having some problems today? Thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

Define immigration.

Define settler colonialism.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing what you are responding to unless I press to reply?  Why is that ?  Do you know Coyote?  Are we having some problems today? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I dont tjink thete are problemd...not sure why you arent seeing it, I can...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.
Click to expand...

Define indigenous.

Define invaders.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a basic misunderstanding of the conflict.
> 
> Do the Jews have the right to immigrate to Palestine to live in the holy land? Probably so.
> 
> Would the existing population have a problem with that? Probably not.
> 
> But the Zionist settler colonial project was a completely different thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing what you are responding to unless I press to reply?  Why is that ?  Do you know Coyote?  Are we having some problems today? Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dont tjink thete are problemd...not sure why you arent seeing it, I can...
Click to expand...

In some posts I will see the quotes to be able to see what one is responding to.  In others, I figured I had to click on Reply in order to see what the quote being answered to was.
Puzzling


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.



Right.  This is where I thought you were heading with this. 

The difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  So, let's go back to what I said:

Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored. 

Its not enough for the Jewish people to be 'permitted' to live in the territory.  The requirement is for sovereignty.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enough already, I never said Jews had no connection, those are your words.  Here is what I said that triggered you which was an answer to your point about "the entire source of the conflict."
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?
> 
> 
> 
> You may repeat your nonsense all you like.
> 
> The indigenous people are the JEWS.  Arabs being born in the land of Israel for the past 1400 years, does not make them the indigenous people of the land, anymore than the Portuguese born in Brazil for the past 500 years, makes them indigenous of
> Brazil.
> 
> The "massive" immigration of Muslims from Bosnia, Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, etc into the land of Israel since 1892 has nothing to do with the Muslims wanting to ethnically cleanse the Jews , and succeeded in doing so, since 1920 out
> Gaza, TranJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.
> No, that ethnic cleansing is not important and has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Keep repeating your mantra.  Memorex is always useful.
Click to expand...

There actually wasnt a "massive" immigration of Arabs during that time...some of that is propoganda designed to delegitimize Palestinian rogjts.  There is no way ti know exact numbers other than there was some.

MidEast Web - Population of Palestine


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enough already, I never said Jews had no connection, those are your words.  Here is what I said that triggered you which was an answer to your point about "the entire source of the conflict."
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?
> 
> 
> 
> You may repeat your nonsense all you like.
> 
> The indigenous people are the JEWS.  Arabs being born in the land of Israel for the past 1400 years, does not make them the indigenous people of the land, anymore than the Portuguese born in Brazil for the past 500 years, makes them indigenous of
> Brazil.
> 
> The "massive" immigration of Muslims from Bosnia, Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, etc into the land of Israel since 1892 has nothing to do with the Muslims wanting to ethnically cleanse the Jews , and succeeded in doing so, since 1920 out
> Gaza, TranJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.
> No, that ethnic cleansing is not important and has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Keep repeating your mantra.  Memorex is always useful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There actually wasnt a "massive" immigration of Arabs during that time...some of that is propoganda designed to delegitimize Palestinian rogjts.  There is no way ti know exact numbers other than there was some.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
Click to expand...


Can we understand this information compared to the number of Jews who were at first immigrating to the land, and later severely cut down by the White Paper?
---------------------
(from your link)
* It is not possible to estimate illegal Arab immigration directly, but apparently there was some immigration. *
The total Arab immigration to Palestine recorded or estimated by the Mandate government was in the neighborhood of 45,000. Illegal immigration that was not recorded would not register in the final population figures for 1945, because those figures were estimates.

--------------
The number of Muslim immigrants until 1945, legal or illegal, is not by any means a small one. 45,000 plus how many more came in illegally, would still be a higher number of Muslim Arabs who immigrated to the area than the Jews who were allowed to now legally immigrate, or ended up immigrating illegally to save themselves from what was going on in Europe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.  This is where I thought you were heading with this.
> 
> The difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  So, let's go back to what I said:
> 
> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> Its not enough for the Jewish people to be 'permitted' to live in the territory.  The requirement is for sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enough already, I never said Jews had no connection, those are your words.  Here is what I said that triggered you which was an answer to your point about "the entire source of the conflict."
> 
> C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?
> 
> The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?
> 
> 
> 
> You may repeat your nonsense all you like.
> 
> The indigenous people are the JEWS.  Arabs being born in the land of Israel for the past 1400 years, does not make them the indigenous people of the land, anymore than the Portuguese born in Brazil for the past 500 years, makes them indigenous of
> Brazil.
> 
> The "massive" immigration of Muslims from Bosnia, Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, etc into the land of Israel since 1892 has nothing to do with the Muslims wanting to ethnically cleanse the Jews , and succeeded in doing so, since 1920 out
> Gaza, TranJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.
> No, that ethnic cleansing is not important and has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Keep repeating your mantra.  Memorex is always useful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There actually wasnt a "massive" immigration of Arabs during that time...some of that is propoganda designed to delegitimize Palestinian rogjts.  There is no way ti know exact numbers other than there was some.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
Click to expand...

One thing to mention is that the citizenship order of 1925 gave Palestinians who were out of the country for any reason something like 3 years to return to Palestine to claim their citizenship or lose it. This may have contributed to a bump in the "Arab" population for that time.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.  This is where I thought you were heading with this.
> 
> The difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  So, let's go back to what I said:
> 
> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> Its not enough for the Jewish people to be 'permitted' to live in the territory.  The requirement is for sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Come on.  How is that a duck?  You would phrase it as:

Immigration is moving with the intention of assimilating into a place.  Settler colonialism is taking over the place.  

But, at its essence, the difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  

You are saying that Jews should be permitted to be present but must not have self-determination or sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.  This is where I thought you were heading with this.
> 
> The difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  So, let's go back to what I said:
> 
> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> Its not enough for the Jewish people to be 'permitted' to live in the territory.  The requirement is for sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on.  How is that a duck?  You would phrase it as:
> 
> Immigration is moving with the intention of assimilating into a place.  Settler colonialism is taking over the place.
> 
> But, at its essence, the difference is self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> You are saying that Jews should be permitted to be present but must not have self-determination or sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Not so. Immigration means that you would share sovereignty with the existing population.

Nobody has the right to exclusive sovereignty.

Settler colonialism is claiming exclusive sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nobody has the right to exclusive sovereignty.



Really?  So Serbia has no right to exist?  Croatia?  Bosnia and Herzegovina?  Macedonia and Montenegro and Slovenia and Kosovo?  

Catalans have no right to sovereignty?  Nor Kurds?  Nor First Nations peoples?  Nor Tibetans?  Scots?  Irish?  Quebecois?  

Or Jordan?  Or Palestine?

Or India and Pakistan and Bangladesh?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> British military, Zionist gangs, IDF attacking Palestinian civilians. Starting around1917 and continuing today.




After about a 100 years of Arab pogroms in Syria-Palestine (and paying protection)  Jews eventually organized armed militias to respond.
How shocking!!!

Q. So what was the excuse for Arab aggression against Jews in Syria-Palestine, before any Zionist shot a bullet?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Settler colonialism is claiming exclusive sovereignty.



No it's not.
The establishment of Israel did not expand the territory of any already existing state, imperial power. Which country did Israel expand, Britain, Russia, Morroco?

But If we go with Your criteria universally - then Palestinian Arabs with their support for King Faisal from Mecca, claimed an exclusive Arab right to sovereignty.
Therefore I can easily claim, that Arabs that joined Faisal, including in Palestine, attempted to  expand the rule of a Hashemite King from Mecca into the territory of Palestine.


----------



## JoelT1

*Mod Edit: the repetitive posting of the same material constitutes spam. Please find some new material to contribute.

*


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Visual:_
A photoshopped picture shows Zionist leader Theodor Herzl wearing a _keffiyeh _(Arab headdress).

(full article online)

PA TV: Israel is “Judaizing” Palestine, committing acts of “forgery and robbery” against holy sites, and “steals our Canaanite heritage” - All media


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> _Visual:_
> A photoshopped picture shows Zionist leader Theodor Herzl wearing a _keffiyeh _(Arab headdress).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA TV: Israel is “Judaizing” Palestine, committing acts of “forgery and robbery” against holy sites, and “steals our Canaanite heritage” - All media



Funny: Arabs descend from Canaanites? Just 1 problem: Canaanites were not Arabs! Arabs didn’t populate that land until the Middle Ages, thousands of years later

Jews are related to Canaanites, El in Israel was a Canaanite god


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> _Visual:_
> A photoshopped picture shows Zionist leader Theodor Herzl wearing a _keffiyeh _(Arab headdress).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA TV: Israel is “Judaizing” Palestine, committing acts of “forgery and robbery” against holy sites, and “steals our Canaanite heritage” - All media



Get this: Palestine doesn’t appear in Arabs’ Koran But, in it, Allah decrees the land to Children of Israel (17:104)

Unfortunately, many Arabs, Muslims are pathological liars


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> _Visual:_
> A photoshopped picture shows Zionist leader Theodor Herzl wearing a _keffiyeh _(Arab headdress).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA TV: Israel is “Judaizing” Palestine, committing acts of “forgery and robbery” against holy sites, and “steals our Canaanite heritage” - All media



Kafiyeh Hertzel.....Hipster ben-Gurion:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has the right to exclusive sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So Serbia has no right to exist?  Croatia?  Bosnia and Herzegovina?  Macedonia and Montenegro and Slovenia and Kosovo?
> 
> Catalans have no right to sovereignty?  Nor Kurds?  Nor First Nations peoples?  Nor Tibetans?  Scots?  Irish?  Quebecois?
> 
> Or Jordan?  Or Palestine?
> 
> Or India and Pakistan and Bangladesh?
Click to expand...

You are trying to confuse the issue.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,
_
I think you MISREAD the comment.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was actually a One-State Solution, with the Arab Majority in power.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This proposal was rejected by Israel, as it would have amounted to the disbanding of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This was an ffer to dismantle the Jewish State.  It was not a Peace Settlement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So any offer to dismantle Palestine is not a peace Settlement?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Any offer that requires the dismantlement of the Jewish State is effectively a requirement for the Israeli people to forfeit their right to independence, territorial integrity, and self-determination. 

That it is essentially demanding of the Israelis _(with a Jewish Minority)_ to submit to domination of a failed state, totally inferior people on the Human Development Index _(with an Arab Palestinian Majority)_.

That becomes a One-State solution.

This is not a Peace Agreement but an unconditional surrender.  It is totally unacceptable.  No state, able to defend itself as often as it has, against the Arab League, would agree to become submissive to any Arab State with Islamist or Jihadist tendencies.  And no member of the Arab League would want the Israelis to surrender its domestic holding _(including military firepower)_ to an Arab Palestinian community that has had close and continuous ties with the Iranians, of any of the Regional Jihadist, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters that might become a threat to their respective nations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has the right to exclusive sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So Serbia has no right to exist?  Croatia?  Bosnia and Herzegovina?  Macedonia and Montenegro and Slovenia and Kosovo?
> 
> Catalans have no right to sovereignty?  Nor Kurds?  Nor First Nations peoples?  Nor Tibetans?  Scots?  Irish?  Quebecois?
> 
> Or Jordan?  Or Palestine?
> 
> Or India and Pakistan and Bangladesh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to confuse the issue.
Click to expand...


No, I'm not confusing the issue.  This IS the issue.  

Do people have the rights to self-determination and sovereignty over territory or do they not?  

Do the Serbs have this right or not?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> No, I'm not confusing the issue. This IS the issue.
> 
> Do people have the rights to self-determination and sovereignty over territory or do they not?
> 
> Do the Serbs have this right or not?




For the most part you're a good, serious debater....

But you also like to play dumb and confuse the issues.

Right now, you're trying to create a false, pathetic equivalence between a genuine independence movement of the native peoples of Catalonia, Tibet, Kurdistan and a colonialist, ethnocratic movement where:

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

2 A colonialist movement created by europeans of jewish faith that, between 1880 and well into the 20th century, was supported by a *TINY* minority of the people/religious group they claimed to represent, was allowed by the invading european power to create a *TOTALLY SEPARATED* society from the existing native society (one of the defining traits of a colony).

3 After the war against the European Power that acted as a typical "metropolis" of the classic cases of colonialism in the Americas, *protecting* the colonization of the region for 30 years, the colonists drove the native inhabitants into ethnic enclaves where they are kept to this day under the threat of death.


----------



## José

What the hell a legitimate, nativist independence movement like the one in Catalonia has to do with a colonialist movement that ended up as a racial dictatorship like the one described above?

Some members of the Board have the mistaken belief that just because they are debating through the Internet instead of face to face their fellow debaters can't distinguish the occasions when they try to create confusion, when they try to play dumb.

I have bad news for them.... 

Just like it is perfectly possible to separate the serious debaters like Rocco, Challenger, etc, etc... from trolls who say things they don't actually believe just to irritate others it's also perfectly possible to perceive when a SERIOUS, GOOD debater is just playing dumb in an attempt to create confusion.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.  This is where I thought you were heading with this.
> 
> The difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  So, let's go back to what I said:
> 
> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> Its not enough for the Jewish people to be 'permitted' to live in the territory.  The requirement is for sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on.  How is that a duck?  You would phrase it as:
> 
> Immigration is moving with the intention of assimilating into a place.  Settler colonialism is taking over the place.
> 
> But, at its essence, the difference is self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> You are saying that Jews should be permitted to be present but must not have self-determination or sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Immigration means that you would share sovereignty with the existing population.
> 
> Nobody has the right to exclusive sovereignty.
> 
> Settler colonialism is claiming exclusive sovereignty.
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Jews, the indigenous People, established sovereignty over Israel 3000+ years ago. Israel has been the only historically legitimate name of the land since that time to today. Palestine was an illegitimate Roman name imposed on ancient Israel

Ancient synagogue in Israel Surprising Mosaics Revealed in Ancient Synagogue in Israel


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define immigration.
> 
> Define settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.  This is where I thought you were heading with this.
> 
> The difference is self-determination and sovereignty.  So, let's go back to what I said:
> 
> Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.
> 
> Its not enough for the Jewish people to be 'permitted' to live in the territory.  The requirement is for sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on.  How is that a duck?  You would phrase it as:
> 
> Immigration is moving with the intention of assimilating into a place.  Settler colonialism is taking over the place.
> 
> But, at its essence, the difference is self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> You are saying that Jews should be permitted to be present but must not have self-determination or sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Immigration means that you would share sovereignty with the existing population.
> 
> Nobody has the right to exclusive sovereignty.
> 
> Settler colonialism is claiming exclusive sovereignty.
Click to expand...


Hey “genius”: Were Jesus, a devout Jew called King of Israel in the Bible, his devout Jewish Apostles and devout Jewish disciples, settlers in Israel? LOL

Most Israeli Jews are indigenous to Israel and to the region, birthplace of the Jewish People dating back thousands of years.

The ignorance in your posts is embarrassing


----------



## rylah

José said:


> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> No, I'm not confusing the issue. This IS the issue.
> 
> Do people have the rights to self-determination and sovereignty over territory or do they not?
> 
> Do the Serbs have this right or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the most part you're a good, serious debater....
> 
> But you also like to play dumb and confuse the issues.
> 
> Right now, you're trying to create a false, pathetic equivalence between a genuine independence movement of the native peoples of Catalonia, Tibet, Kurdistan and a colonialist, ethnocratic movement where:
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 2 A colonialist movement created by europeans of jewish faith that, between 1880 and well into the 20th century, was supported by a *TINY* minority of the people/religious group they claimed to represent, was allowed by the invading european power to create a *TOTALLY SEPARATED* society from the existing native society (one of the defining traits of a colony).
> 
> 3 After the war against the European Power that acted as a typical "metropolis" of the classic cases of colonialism in the Americas, *protecting* the colonization of the region for 30 years, the colonists drove the native inhabitants into ethnic enclaves where they are kept to this day under the threat of death.
Click to expand...


Nice speech, nothing more. Factually wrong on most points.
I'll explain later in the evening.

In the meanwhile please explain, what is this_ "right to ethnic composition" ?_


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ José, Shusha, _et al,_

I am not sure this is accurate at all.



José said:


> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.


*(COMMENT)*

To a degree this is true; but misleading.

•  When the Joint Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (EOTA) (British and French), the Allied Powers had defeated the the Middle East which had been under the Sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire.  There was no attempt, on the part of the EOTA, to deny the native inhabitants of their society; at least no more so than The *Peace of Westphalia *(1648) had in all previous wars  relative to sovereignty and territorial integrity.

√  (* The Economic Policy That Made the Peace of Westphalia* )  Similarly, it is only with a return to the Peace of Westphalia's principle of "forgiving the sins of the past," and of mutually beneficial economic development _(see Treaty principles, the "*benefit of the other*'')_, that the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict could be solved on the basis of two mutually-recognized sovereign states.​
Nor was there any intent, more than any other previous war, to manipulate the Regional ethnic composition any more than necessary.  For instance, one of the objectives of the Westphalia Treaty was to allow for the Independence of the Dutch Republic; which was intended to (with marginal success) provided a safe country for European Jews.

But the Peace of Westphalia did not prohibit territorial occupation by the victors over the defeated; not then and not through the era of WW II.  The EOTA did not more than what was customary.

•  The Occupation of the Jordanian Sovereign territory of the West Bank, whether it is argued by any quarter as legal or not, was a very typical outcome of establishing effective control, in the wake of an Army in rout, as in the case of the Jordanian Military; a defeat attended with disorderly flight.  This would ultimately lead to the abandonment of the West Bank in the Hands of the Israelis. 



José said:


> 2 A colonialist movement created by europeans of jewish faith that, between 1880 and well into the 20th century, was supported by a *TINY* minority of the people/religious group they claimed to represent, was allowed by the invading european power to create a *TOTALLY SEPARATED* society from the existing native society (one of the defining traits of a colony).


*(COMMENT)*

As is very often the case, the protection and preservation of a small - minority culture.  In the last half century, the role of human rights organizations as defenders to ensure that the rights of national or ethnic, religious and linguistic minorities like the Israelis represent, has been subverted by the cries of foul by the Arab Majority of the Middle East.  The most vocal being the Arab Palestinians which have been the very violent Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.  

The Arab Palestinian has proven totally uncooperative for more than a century in the Islamic 'vs' Jewish struggle as first sparked by the Mufti of Jerusalem and the Islamic Cleric that started the Palestinian Black Hand.  As honest as the dogma of --- create a *TOTALLY SEPARATED* society --- might sound, it is important to remember that Israel _(per capita)_ is more diverse than either the Gaza Strip or the West Bank.

Illiterate:  Once the Arab Palestinian get some mantra stuck in their head (colonialism or apartheid), they absolutely refuse to look as the true definitions and intent of the terminology.  You simply cannot have a meaningful discussion with them as they are embedded in the quicksand of propaganda.

The concept of the separation of cultures and societies did NOT come from the wisdom of the Allied Powers; but, was drawn upon in the opening post-War period _(conveniently forgotten by the Arab Palestinians)_:

Written By:  *The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica*
"A _millet_ was an autonomous self-governing religious community, each organized under its own laws and headed by a religious leader, who was responsible to the central government for the fulfillment of _millet_ responsibilities and duties, particularly those of paying taxes and maintaining internal security."

*Millet System in the Ottoman Empire*  ---  By: Efrat Aviv LAST MODIFIED: 28 November 2016​


José said:


> 3 After the war against the European Power that acted as a typical "metropolis" of the classic cases of colonialism in the Americas, *protecting* the colonization of the region for 30 years, the colonists drove the native inhabitants into ethnic enclaves where they are kept to this day under the threat of death.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, yes... Americans are always the bad guys.  This mantra is so old as to have virtually no impact any more.  The Arabs _(through the Arab Higher Committee)_ have made this claim so often, some have set the mantra to music.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

José said:


> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> No, I'm not confusing the issue. This IS the issue.
> 
> Do people have the rights to self-determination and sovereignty over territory or do they not?
> 
> Do the Serbs have this right or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the most part you're a good, serious debater....
> 
> But you also like to play dumb and confuse the issues.
> 
> Right now, you're trying to create a false, pathetic equivalence between a genuine independence movement of the native peoples of Catalonia, Tibet, Kurdistan and a colonialist, ethnocratic movement where:
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 2 A colonialist movement created by europeans of jewish faith that, between 1880 and well into the 20th century, was supported by a *TINY* minority of the people/religious group they claimed to represent, was allowed by the invading european power to create a *TOTALLY SEPARATED* society from the existing native society (one of the defining traits of a colony).
> 
> 3 After the war against the European Power that acted as a typical "metropolis" of the classic cases of colonialism in the Americas, *protecting* the colonization of the region for 30 years, the colonists drove the native inhabitants into ethnic enclaves where they are kept to this day under the threat of death.
Click to expand...


Palestine, originally a name imposed on ancient Israel by the colonialist Roman Empire, was later the name of the colonialist British Mandate (British palestine) which eventuated in the restoration of the historical Jewish Homeland of Israel


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> For the most part you're a good, serious debater....
> 
> But you also like to play dumb and confuse the issues.
> 
> Right now, you're trying to create a false, pathetic equivalence between a genuine independence movement of the native peoples of Catalonia, Tibet, Kurdistan and a colonialist, ethnocratic movement ...



I am neither confusing the issue nor playing dumb.  Again, this IS the issue.  And what I am doing is challenging the foundation of the majority of team Palestine's argument.  It needs to be challenged.  

The implication in your post, though you did not say it directly, is that you DO believe that all peoples do have a right to self-determination and sovereignty.  

The Catalans have a right to self-determination.  The Serbs have a right to self-determination.  The Croats, the Macedonians, the Montenegrins, the Bosnians, the Slovenians.  Czechs have the right to self-determination, as do the Slovaks.  So do the Kurds.  The Tibetans.  The Cypriots.  The Hawaiians. The First Nations Peoples of the Americas.  

The Palestinians.

And so then I say, the Jewish people have the right to self-determination.  And suddenly, team Palestine is all, "whoa, whoa, whoa.  No they don't."

Why is that, Jose?  Why is it that when it comes to the Jewish people, suddenly there are all sorts of excuses about why _that particular people_ should not have self-determination?  

The reason you gave is that the Jewish people don't fall into the category of "genuine independence movements".  Every other people who has a desire for self-determination and sovereignty is put into the category of "genuine independence movements", except the Jewish people.  Tell me what to make of that. Why is the self-determination of the Jewish peoples, alone of all the peoples of the world, not valid?.

Forget about the events of the past 100 years.  Just for a moment.  (We'll come back to them.)  Go back to 1916.  Jews are about 10% of the total population of the territory.  They are a majority in Jerusalem.  They would like to have self-determination and sovereignty.  Should they be prevented from having it?  If yes, why?


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
Click to expand...


You clearly grasp of basic cause-n-effect moron...unfortunately your argument is with people like Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...Begin...Dyan...Ben Gurion...etc. These individuals were quite candid in what they planned and executed...by contrast your crude Jew lies propose to contradict the stated aims and conspiracies that all of these men admitted to many times...


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> ... maintain their society and ethnic composition ...
> 
> ... *TOTALLY SEPARATED* society ...
> 
> ... ethnic enclaves ...



Did Serbia maintain its society and ethnic composition?  Is Serbia totally separated?  Is Serbia an "ethnic enclave"?

What about Catalan?  When it separates from Spain, will it be "totally separated"?  Will it be an "ethnic enclave"?  Or, I guess the correct question to ask is if Spain will be an "ethnic enclave"?

I guess my question is what makes something the bad thing which is an "ethnic enclave" as opposed to a good thing like a successful independence movement?


----------



## Sixties Fan

*DCI-P Claims*
“International law is clear: children should only be detained as a last resort, for the shortest appropriate period of time, and under absolutely no circumstances should they be subjected to torture or ill-treatment,” said Khaled Quzmar, DCIP general director. “And yet, year after year, we see Palestinian children experiencing widespread ill-treatment and the systematic denial of their due process rights by Israeli forces and the military law framework.”

*NGO Monitor Analysis*
Israel does not question that children should only be detained as a last resort and, like adults, should never be the subject of torture or ill treatment. At the same time, individuals committing violent crimes, including assault and murder, are not immune from accountability simply because they are minors.

In order to ensure that fundamental rights are granted to all suspects, including Palestinian minors, Israel operates multi-faceted law enforcement systems both within its recognized boundaries and in the areas controlled by the Israeli Military pursuant to the mutually agreed to and internationally guaranteed Oslo Accords. These systems provide comprehensive rights for all those who violate the law.

(full article online)

No Way to Represent a Child: Defense for Children International Palestine’s Distortions of the Israeli Justice System


----------



## abi

Coyote said:


> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?


NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.



Coyote said:


> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?


A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> *DCI-P Claims*
> “International law is clear: children should only be detained as a last resort, for the shortest appropriate period of time, and under absolutely no circumstances should they be subjected to torture or ill-treatment,” said Khaled Quzmar, DCIP general director. “And yet, year after year, we see Palestinian children experiencing widespread ill-treatment and the systematic denial of their due process rights by Israeli forces and the military law framework.”
> 
> *NGO Monitor Analysis*
> Israel does not question that children should only be detained as a last resort and, like adults, should never be the subject of torture or ill treatment. At the same time, individuals committing violent crimes, including assault and murder, are not immune from accountability simply because they are minors.
> 
> In order to ensure that fundamental rights are granted to all suspects, including Palestinian minors, Israel operates multi-faceted law enforcement systems both within its recognized boundaries and in the areas controlled by the Israeli Military pursuant to the mutually agreed to and internationally guaranteed Oslo Accords. These systems provide comprehensive rights for all those who violate the law.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> No Way to Represent a Child: Defense for Children International Palestine’s Distortions of the Israeli Justice System



Palestinian minors? Do they speak palestinian? Nope, Arabic is their native language. Is their religion palestinian? Nope, mostly Muslim, a few Christian Arabs


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> And so then I say, the Jewish people have the right to self-determination. And suddenly, team Palestine is all, "whoa, whoa, whoa. No they don't."


Self-determination stops where war criminality and crimes against humanity begins. You don't seem to understand that even though every sane person on earth does.


----------



## JoelT1

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And so then I say, the Jewish people have the right to self-determination. And suddenly, team Palestine is all, "whoa, whoa, whoa. No they don't."
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination stops where war criminality and crimes against humanity begins. You don't seem to understand that even though every sane person on earth does.
Click to expand...


22 Arab countries, 57 Islamic countries are inadequate self-determination


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Self-determination stops where war criminality and crimes against humanity begins. You don't seem to understand that even though every sane person on earth does.



So, the Serbs, the Croats, the Macedonians, the Montenegrins, the Bosnians and the Slovenians lost their rights to self-determination because they fought a nasty war?   Odd, since they seem to have it now.  Should it be taken away from them?

Should the people of Gaza be denied any sort of self-determination because of their illegal attempts to murder Israelis with rockets and suicide bombs?

Should the Palestinians be denied self-determination because several of them blew up a pizza parlour?  Or murdered Olympic athletes?


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.



A.  The article you posted proves there is no wrong wall.  All the walls are the right walls.  As are all the gates.  And all the courtyards.  Even the surrounding hillsides are the "right" places.  

B.  Are you arguing that there should be NO SECURITY on the Temple Mount?  Security is incitement?!  You know, as opposed to the storing of weapons by Muslims in holy places?!  

Out of curiosity, what would you do to "rethink" the whole Mount situation?  What is your solution?


----------



## Coyote

abi said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
Click to expand...

How would you change it?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you change it?
Click to expand...


Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once

Jerusalem is the Jewish National Capital since antiquity


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And so then I say, the Jewish people have the right to self-determination. And suddenly, team Palestine is all, "whoa, whoa, whoa. No they don't."
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination stops where war criminality and crimes against humanity begins. You don't seem to understand that even though every sane person on earth does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries, 57 Islamic countries are inadequate self-determination
Click to expand...

How many European countried are there?

How many Christian countries?

Apparently self determination is dependent on the number of countries with similar ethnic and religious attributes...


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you change it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once
Click to expand...


Reality check. 

Al-Aqsa Mosque. Dome of the Rock.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you change it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once
> 
> Jerusalem is the Jewish National Capital since antiquity
Click to expand...

It does not have to be mentioned in the Koran to have legitimacy.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you change it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once
> 
> Jerusalem is the Jewish National Capital since antiquity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not have to be mentioned in the Koran to have legitimacy.
Click to expand...


Jerusalem’s total absence in the Koran reflects its total lack of holiness in Islam.

Now you know


----------



## abi

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have an area that contains holy sites importent to three closely intertwined world religions. The same archaeologists that dispute which is the right wall don't dispute the evidence of Jewish history in that place and it sounds like you are. Are you?
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Places like these must be preserved and acess by all relevent faiths protected. I do think Israel has done a decent job there. Can you grant them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you change it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once
> 
> Jerusalem is the Jewish National Capital since antiquity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not have to be mentioned in the Koran to have legitimacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem’s total absence in the Koran reflects its total lack of holiness in Islam.
> 
> Now you know
Click to expand...

You have never read the Quran and the whole 72 virgins thing is not in the Quran, does that mean that that is not an Islamic teaching?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

abi said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you change it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once
> 
> Jerusalem is the Jewish National Capital since antiquity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not have to be mentioned in the Koran to have legitimacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem’s total absence in the Koran reflects its total lack of holiness in Islam.
> 
> Now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have never read the Quran and the whole 72 virgins thing is not in the Quran, does that mean that that is not an Islamic teaching?
Click to expand...


Um, there is no “teaching” of the “72 virgins thing” Now you know


----------



## JoelT1

abi said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO! OK? You are reading what Shusha claims I say. She does this to repeat her nonstop argument. She does this on multiple threads. This is known as creating a straw man. It is the cause of all these same circular debates on nearly every thread. As a mod, you should already know this. And if "the 3 strike rule" was actually implemented, we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.
> 
> A) If they are wailing at the wrong wall, they are wailing at the wrong wall, period. B) They are running around with guns after removing them from all Christians and Muslims. The incitement that this causes along with Israel's ability to close the area off to anyone they choose and whenever they choose is probably difficult for any of us to understand. So, no, the whole Mount situation needs to be seriously rethought.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you change it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reality Check: Jerusalem has zero legitimate religious sanctity in Islam. It’s not even mentioned in the Koran Not even once
> 
> Jerusalem is the Jewish National Capital since antiquity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does not have to be mentioned in the Koran to have legitimacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem’s total absence in the Koran reflects its total lack of holiness in Islam.
> 
> Now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have never read the Quran and the whole 72 virgins thing is not in the Quran, does that mean that that is not an Islamic teaching?
Click to expand...


Point to “Jerusalem” in the original Koran text and I’ll give you a cookie


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]

TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> we could probably have some decent discussion and actually find out what points all sides agree on, which I believe to be many.



If you want to discuss points of agreement and solutions to the conflict, why don't you weigh in on one of the three "solutions" threads in the stickies?


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration



No palestinian history because they’re invented. Much history of the Jews


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration


So,what is wrong with the ad?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration
> 
> 
> 
> So,what is wrong with the ad?
Click to expand...

The Arabs are alive.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration
> 
> 
> 
> So,what is wrong with the ad?
Click to expand...


You mean besides the COLOSSAL lie that a society was stamped out?

And the COLOSSAL omission of Arab complicity?

And the complete fabrication that Arabs rights are being removed?

And the entire neglect to tell the other side of the story?

And the blatant appeal to emotion at the expense of reality?


----------



## Indeependent

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration
> 
> 
> 
> So,what is wrong with the ad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean besides the COLOSSAL lie that a society was stamped out?
> 
> And the COLOSSAL omission of Arab complicity?
> 
> And the complete fabrication that Arabs rights are being removed?
> 
> And the entire neglect to tell the other side of the story?
> 
> And the blatant appeal to emotion at the expense of reality?
Click to expand...

Leeennnk?


----------



## Shusha

Before:







After:


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration
> 
> 
> 
> So,what is wrong with the ad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean besides the COLOSSAL lie that a society was stamped out?
> 
> And the COLOSSAL omission of Arab complicity?
> 
> And the complete fabrication that Arabs rights are being removed?
> 
> And the entire neglect to tell the other side of the story?
> 
> And the blatant appeal to emotion at the expense of reality?
Click to expand...



But aside from all that....let me tell what is really wrong with any campaign which opposes the Balfour Declaration specifically.  The Balfour Declaration is the recognition of a people to their right to reconstitute their Nation in their ancestral and historical homeland. 

Any movement which fundamentally rejects that concept is fundamentally rejecting the rights of all people to self-determination and sovereignty OR is specifically rejecting the rights of just ONE people to self-determination and sovereignty. 

The former is in direct conflict with what the Arab Palestinians hope to achieve and the latter is anti-semitism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration
> 
> 
> 
> So,what is wrong with the ad?
Click to expand...

*Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda*

The coming months mark the centennial of Palestine’s forcible incorporation into the British Empire. In November 1917, British foreign secretary Lord Arthur Balfour declared his government’s support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”; in December, Jerusalem fell to British troops. One hundred years later, the effects of these events continue to reverberate. This should be a time of sombre reflection about international responsibility for the unfolding tragedy in Palestine.

This responsibility should weigh heavily on the West. Walid Khalidi put it well: “The Zionists were the initiators. But they were also, as they still are, the protégés of their Anglo–American sponsors and the emanations of their power, resources, and will.” The fact is that the Israeli state can’t be credited for much originality – either in its brutality or in the hypocrisy deployed to cover it. And it is all too fitting that it was British imperialism that propelled the Zionist movement onto the world stage.

Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *rylah*
> In the meanwhile please explain, what is this "right to ethnic composition" ?



The natural right of the chinese people to preserve the han chinese majority of their homeland by controlling immigration.

Their natural right to prevent millions of whites, blacks or even other asians from turning them into a minority in their own homeland.

The same natural right of the arab population of Palestine that was raped by Britain.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *RoccoR*
> But the *Peace of Westphalia did not prohibit territorial occupation by the victors over the defeated*; not then and not through the era of WW II. The EOTA did not more than what was customary.



So you recognize the historic fact that during the first half of the last century Britain exerted imperialism on the native people of Palestine.

The region of Palestine was militarily occupied by the army of an european people who took away the right of the native people to govern their homeland, decide whether they wanted to create a state in Palestine or join a larger arab state and preserve the ethnic make up of their land.

Virginia, the homeland of the Powhatan, Roanoke and Hokan Sioux peoples, occupied by british colonization companies and british subjects acting under the authority of the british crown who took away their right to control their homeland and preserve their ethnic majority in their homeland.




> Originally posted by *RoccoR*
> Nor was there any intent, more than any other previous war, *to manipulate the Regional ethnic composition any more than necessary*.



So you recognize the fact that Britain, against the will of the natives, allowed the destruction of the regional ethnic composition that ended up turning the native population in a minority in the western half of their homeland.

And what was "necessary" to fulfill the Zionist dream of a "classic" nation state for the Jews where they would constitute 80 to 90% of the population was much greater than the narrow jewish majority that Britain's military occupation and the Zionist movement could create in 30 years even after WWII.

So an overwhelming jewish majority had to be "created" by other means.

By the mid-17th century, the indigenous population of Virginia had already been supplanted by the english colonists.



> *JOSÉ:* A colonialist movement was allowed by the invading european power to create a *TOTALLY SEPARATED society* from the existing native society





> RoccoR: *As is very often the case, the protection and preservation of a small - minority culture*. As honest as the dogma of --- create a TOTALLY SEPARATED society --- might sound.



So you recognize the fact that the british occupiers allowed the Zionists to create a totally separated society from the arab society, complete with a jewish press, jewish school system, farms, industries, banks, political institutions and leadership, proto-army, etc, etc...

The settlement of Jamestown and the future Colony of Virginia, were, respectively, a community and a society totally separated from the Algonquian and Iroquoian native societies that existed in Virginia.



> JOSÉ: the colonists drove the native inhabitants into ethnic enclaves where they are kept to this day under the threat of death.





> RoccoR: *Yes, yes*... Americans are always the bad guys. This mantra is so old as to have virtually no impact any more. The Arabs (through the Arab Higher Committee) have made this claim so often, some have set the mantra to music.



So you are, more or less, obliquely, reluctantly recognizing the fact that the new, separate society Britain allowed the Zionists to create in Palestine led to the collapse of the pre-existing society?

Pay attention...

I'm not talking about the killing or imprisonment of the tiny fraction of arabs who took up arms against the new colonial society built on their homeland during the last 2 months of 1947 and the first half of 1948...

I'm talking about the collapse of an entire society, with hundreds of villages, towns and cities depopulated, that were later razed to the ground, with hundreds of thousands of refugees dispersed throughout the region, massacres, the placement of snipers along the borders of the new society to prevent their return, their leadership exiled, their economy destroyed.

I assume you are grudgingly recognizing that the new separate, ethnocratic society whose establishment Britain facilitated in Palestine effectively destroyed the native one.

At the turn of the century (1700) mere 90 years after the founding of Jamestown, the native societies of Virginia had lost their entire homeland to the new colonial society and most of the original tribes have now disappeared from History.


----------



## José

Rocco

You reject most of the comparisons between Israel and America, Canada, Mexico, South Africa, Australia, etc...



> *RoccoR*:
> The territory subject to the Mandate was never a "colonial project."
> 
> Yes, the "Colonial Project" whining.
> 
> That is simply an illusion by the illiterate.



But your description of the creation of the state of Israel (from the british military occupation, denial of natives' rights, destruction of the racial composition of their homeland, creation of a parallel and separate society to the collapse of the native society and confinement of the native population in ethnic enclaves) fits the definition and description of a colonial society and a future ethnocratic state to a T.

You see an animal in front of you that barks, wags its tail, eats meat, gnaw bones, likes to follow its owner wherever he goes, doesn't climb trees but you insist on calling it a cat.

Something is wrong with your ideas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Settlements myth *
The panel states,

“There are upwards of 600,000 Israeli settlers moving illegally into Palestinian land. They represent the greatest obstacle to the creation of a Palestinian state and realization of a two state solution.”

“They [Palestinians] are removed from their homes and displaced to create new settlements… We have to embark on a process of settler decolonization … Israel is a settler colony.”
------------
First, it is untrue that the establishment of Jewish communities in the West Bank displaced Palestinians. These communities are located almost entirely, if not entirely, either on Jewish-owned land or land owned by the previous governing authority (Jordan, Britain, the Turkish Ottoman empire).
---------------------
Israel is the obligatory and legal military occupational authority of the West Bank, having taken the territory from Jordanian occupation in self-defense in the 1967 Six-Day War. But the land is not "Palestinian." It is disputed. Hence the need for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations according to U.N. Security Council Resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973), and the 1995 Israeli-Palestinian interim agreement. Meanwhile, Jewish villages and towns built in the West Bank since 1967 are no more deserving of condemnation than are Arab villages built since then in previously existing Arab villages and towns.

The panel's claim, “… in 1948, when they [Israel] kicked out Palestinians from what we now call Israel at the green line” is misleading. The vast majority of Arabs who fled Israel (many remained) did so as a result of pressure from Arab leaders during the Arab-initiated 1948 war. The descendants of these Arabs have suffered at the hands of their own leaders and those of the broader Muslim world.

(full article online)

CAMERA: C-SPAN Pairs with Palestinian Panelists Purveying Anti-Israel Propaganda


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The coming months mark the centennial of Palestine’s forcible incorporation into the British Empire.



Really?!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Later on in the interview (40:53) listeners heard the following statements from Bethlehem born, Saudi raised, US educated Annemarie Jacir:

Jacir: “I think the Palestinians that are living in, you know, historic Palestine in a city like Nazareth – which is the biggest Palestinian city [sic] in Israel – they aren’t…who are they represented by? You know they are Israeli citizens on paper but they’re second, third class citizens. They don’t have the same rights. They’re not represented by the Israeli government for sure. They’re definitely not represented by the Palestinian Authority and so I feel like it is a community that lives a contradictory life and they’re struggling to find an identity…the identity and also, yeah, a political representative.”

Arab-Israelis living in Nazareth or anywhere else in Israel of course have the same rights as any other citizen – including the right to vote for their chosen parliamentary representatives. Eighteen (i.e. over 20% – reflecting the proportion of minorities in the population as a whole) of the current members of the Knesset are Arab-Israelis, Druze or Bedouin representing six different political parties (three of which – in contrast to Jacir’s claim – are part of the current coalition government) and surveys repeatedly indicate that the majority of Arab-Israelis view Israel in a positive light.

(full article online)

BBC WS radio listeners told that Nazareth is a ‘Palestinian city’


----------



## Sixties Fan

But as a recent poll of Israeli Arabs proves, the community is changing—and not in Zoabi’s favor.

Perhaps most striking was the fact that a decisive majority of respondents identified primarily as Israeli rather than Palestinian, which is something that wasn’t true even a few years ago. In 2012, for instance, just 32.5 percent of Israeli Arabs defined themselves as “Israeli” rather than Palestinian. But the figure has risen fairly steadily, and this year, asked “which term best describes you,” 54 percent of respondents chose some variant of “Israeli” (the most popular choice was “Israeli Arab,” followed by “Arab citizen of Israel,” “Israeli,” and “Israeli Muslim”). That’s more than double the 24 percent who chose some variant of “Palestinian” (15 percent chose simply “Palestinian.” The others chose “Palestinian in Israel,” “Palestinian citizen in Israel,” or “Israeli Palestinian”).

(full article online)

Israeli Arabs’ Growing Israeli Identity | Evelyn Gordon


----------



## JoelT1

History For Dummies: Palestine originated as a bogus Roman name imposed on Jews’ land. And Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British who coined the bogus term.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]
> 
> TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration
> 
> 
> 
> So,what is wrong with the ad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda*
> 
> The coming months mark the centennial of Palestine’s forcible incorporation into the British Empire. In November 1917, British foreign secretary Lord Arthur Balfour declared his government’s support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”; in December, Jerusalem fell to British troops. One hundred years later, the effects of these events continue to reverberate. This should be a time of sombre reflection about international responsibility for the unfolding tragedy in Palestine.
> 
> This responsibility should weigh heavily on the West. Walid Khalidi put it well: “The Zionists were the initiators. But they were also, as they still are, the protégés of their Anglo–American sponsors and the emanations of their power, resources, and will.” The fact is that the Israeli state can’t be credited for much originality – either in its brutality or in the hypocrisy deployed to cover it. And it is all too fitting that it was British imperialism that propelled the Zionist movement onto the world stage.
> 
> Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda
Click to expand...


Um, “palestine” is an English word and was merely the temporary name of the British Mandate after WW1, and ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. There’s no p in Arabic

There was no such “palestine” in existence prior to WW1 during 400 years of the Ottoman Empire. Arabs called Syria Bilad al-Sham “land to the left”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ynetnews Opinion - Israeli Arabs are breaking their silence


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> The region of Palestine was militarily occupied by the army of a people who took away the right of the native people to govern their homeland, decide whether they wanted to create a state in Palestine ... and preserve the ethnic make up of their land.



Good.  Now apply that to the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> But your description of the creation of the state ... (from the military occupation, denial of natives' rights, destruction of the racial composition of their homeland, creation of a parallel and separate society to the collapse of the native society and confinement of the native population in ethnic enclaves) fits the definition and description of a colonial society and a future ethnocratic state to a T.



It fits the description of the dissolution of retired nations like Yugoslavia and the creation of new States as well.  You are okay with Yugoslavia splitting up, right?


----------



## rylah

José said:


> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.



This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
Click to expand...



Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews

Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews


----------



## rylah

JoelT1 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews
> 
> Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews
Click to expand...


Agree, wasn't Medina a Jewish center once?

Nevertheless, the condition of the Jewish community in Palestine was much worse, than of other communities in the middle east.


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews
> 
> Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree, wasn't Medina a Jewish center once?
> 
> Nevertheless, the condition of the Jewish community in Palestine was much worse, than of other communities in the middle east.
Click to expand...


Jews (and Christians) inhabited Medina long before Muhammad and Muslims, and lived elsewhere in Arabia such as Khaybar which Arab Muslims attacked and subjugated

Jews generally were treated well under Ottoman Turkish rule which ended with its collapse in WW1. Of course, Turks are different than Arabs


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ "José, _et al,_

Well, you tend to see only what you want to see.

The Allied Powers wrote all these guidelines you like to think extend some special privilege to the Arab Palestinians.

You cannot apply concepts of the 21st Century to common practice and understanding at the turn of the 19th Century into the very beginning of the 20th Century.

If you study history, you will notice that Imperialism (used as a propaganda term even up through today) was on the decline.  At the end of the Great War (WWI) four great empires fell.

*(COMMENT)*

Against the "will of the natives" sends a totally bad interpretation.  The Allied Powers set the stage for what was to become of the territories under the Mandate.

*(COMMENT*)

It was often considered counterproductive for the Arab Palestinians to be given the care of a minority sub-culture in the Middle East.  And while it might have been a decision at risk by the Allied Powers that implemented the Mandate System, it was later proven that the Arab Palestinians were untrustworthy in any true political sense.  Not long after the creation of the PLO , they uncovered their true colors:

*The Conflict of 1970, Jordan History*
The Jordanian civil war of September *1970*, also known in the Arab world as Black September, was an attempt by the *Palestine* Liberation Organization (PLO) and the more radical Popular Front for the Liberation of *Palestine* (PFLP) to topple Jordanian King Hussein and seize control of the country.   

*Jordan Premier Assassinated by Palestinian Extremist Group*
Egyptian prosecutor Gen. Muhammad Maher Hassan said four men had been arrested. He said three belonged to an extremist Palestinian group called "the Black Hand of September." This is apparently a reference to the September, 1970, civil war in Jordan between Palestinian guerrillas and government troops.​
Yes, yes, yes,  The Americans are such bad people.  And the Arab Palestinians have such clean hands.

The concept of  Rights of Indigenous Peoples (A/RES/61/295 SEP 2007) only gained marginal consensus in the first decade of the 21st Century; long after the wars have been fought and the decisions had been made.

So you recognize the fact that the british occupiers allowed the Zionists to create a totally separated society from the arab society, complete with a jewish press, jewish school system, farms, industries, banks, political institutions and leadership, proto-army, etc, etc...

The settlement of Jamestown and the future Colony of Virginia, were, respectively, a community and a society totally separated from the Algonquian and Iroquoian native societies that existed in Virginia.

*(COMMENT*)

Yes, that would be the "*millet* system" of the Ottoman Empire.

Don't confuse the mission and purpose of Jamestown with anything relevant to today.  Different standards applied.

The conflict instigated by the Mufti of Jerusalem _(Mohammed Amin al-Husseini)_ was all about power, shrouded in the cloak of nationalism.  The Mufti was later to make a bid for power via the Egyptian financed "All Palestine Government.

*(COMMENT*)

There is nothing oblique about it.

Oh hell yes.  But it was more then just the Mandate Power (Great Britain).  The Jewish National Home was endorsed by the Principle Allied Powers (WWI era) and the Allied Command Europe (Allied Powers WWII).

In fact the UNSCOP made a two-state recommendation.

*(COMMENT*)

The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in the process.  Not for the first time either.  So it comes as no surprise that their preferences where less than prominent.

*(COMMENT*)

If you are talking about the economy on the territory over which the Israelis cover, you will notice that it did not collapse at all.  In fact it is many time more prosperous that anything the Arabs have done in any of the 22 Member States.

As for the refugees, the UNRWA has made absolutely no attempt to provide the same placement services as the UN Refugee Agency.

*(COMMENT*)

It was a decision set with more input than not.  The Arab State and the Jewish State were outlined in A/RES/181(II).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?



Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
Click to expand...


So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
Click to expand...


Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?


Israel calls equal rights for all as destroying Israel.

What does that say about Israel?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calls equal rights for all as destroying Israel.
> 
> What does that say about Israel?
Click to expand...


Not sure what you mean?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calls equal rights for all as destroying Israel.
> 
> What does that say about Israel?
Click to expand...


Barack Obama: Democratic Israel is the future of the world


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
Click to expand...


Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat: Leveraging Our Collective Expertise*


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
Click to expand...


Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
Click to expand...


Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc
> 
> But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity
Click to expand...

What difference does it make?


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc
> 
> But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity
Click to expand...



You might find that the Egyptians and the Saudi's quite disagree with you...kind of like the Germans and French....or the Irish and English....


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them
Click to expand...


You need to read up on what a theocracy is.  Saudi is a MONARCHY.  I believe Iran is the closest to a theocracy so I'll give you points for that.  Religion influencing government - while DISTASTFUL is not a theocracy.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc
> 
> But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity
Click to expand...


Wrong.  I think Europe and Mid East/North Africa are multiple ethnic groups.  Try to keep up.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
> Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
> A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.
> 
> If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
> Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.
> 
> When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a_ "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". _And I should mention that_ "ethnic composition"_ sounds much worse than_ "maintain society"._
> 
> Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews
> 
> Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews
Click to expand...


Actually I don't think the Arabs "mass slaughtered" them or "ethnically cleansed" them until way late, when the fighting over Israel's formation occurred when the Arab states got their knickers in a knot and expelled Jews.  Sure there were wars but historically - there were large periods of peaceful coexistence and even flourishing.  Certainly not ethnic cleansing since ancient Jewish communities existed until relatively recently.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc
> 
> But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  I think Europe and Mid East/North Africa are multiple ethnic groups.  Try to keep up.
Click to expand...


You thought Europeans were an ethnic group. Wrong. And you thought Arabs consisted of different ethnic groups. Wrong, again.

You have a perfect record: Always wrong!


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc
> 
> But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  I think Europe and Mid East/North Africa are multiple ethnic groups.  Try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You thought Europeans were an ethnic group. Wrong. And you thought Arabs consisted of different ethnic groups. Wrong, again.
> 
> You have a perfect record: Always wrong!
Click to expand...


You seem to lack reading comprehension skills or perhaps you don't understand using examples and sarcasm.
Multiple ethnicities that share common religious cultures.  Easy peasy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noel Kharman*


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read up on what a theocracy is.  Saudi is a MONARCHY.  I believe Iran is the closest to a theocracy so I'll give you points for that.  Religion influencing government - while DISTASTFUL is not a theocracy.
Click to expand...


Um, the Arabia part of Saudi Arabia was the birthplace of Islam; Saudi Arabia is governed by Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy Read, learn Countries With A Theocratic Government Today


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## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> How many do Europeans have?
> How many do Christians have?
> 
> Again...does this personally threaten you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.
> 
> If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies.  You have one I believe.
> 
> You need to decide on your terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read up on what a theocracy is.  Saudi is a MONARCHY.  I believe Iran is the closest to a theocracy so I'll give you points for that.  Religion influencing government - while DISTASTFUL is not a theocracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, the Arabia part of Saudi Arabia was the birthplace of Islam; Saudi Arabia is governed by Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy Read, learn Countries With A Theocratic Government Today
Click to expand...


I don't think you understand what a "theocracy" is...but, ok...so you have six of seven governments with theocratic monarchies or theocratic democracies, and one that is Christian.

Six is not 57.


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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore

*Role of Hamas in Middle East Peace Process*

*Role Hamas Middle East Peace Process, Apr 11 2008 | C-SPAN.org*


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## Coyote

*I Come from There - Poem by Mahmoud Darwish*

I come from there and I have memories
Born as mortals are, I have a mother
And a house with many windows, 
I have brothers, friends, 
And a prison cell with a cold window. 
Mine is the wave, snatched by sea-gulls, 
I have my own view, 
And an extra blade of grass. 
Mine is the moon at the far edge of the words, 
And the bounty of birds, 
And the immortal olive tree. 
I walked this land before the swords 
Turned its living body into a laden table. 
I come from there. I render the sky unto her mother 
When the sky weeps for her mother
And I weep to make myself known 
To a returning cloud. 
I learnt all the words worthy of the court of blood 
So that I could break the rule. 
I learnt all the words and broke them up 
To make a single word: Homeland..... 

Mahmoud Darwish


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## Coyote

*He Is Quiet And So Am I*

He's quiet and so am I. 
He asks the waiter something. 
I ask the waiter something… 
A black cat walks between us. 
I feel the midnight of its fur 
and he feels the midnight of its fur… 
I don't say to him: The sky today 
is clear and blue. 
He doesn't say to me: The sky today is clear. 
He's watched and the one watching 
and I'm watched and the one watching. 
I move my left foot. 
He moves his right foot. 
I hum the melody of a song 
and he hums the melody of a similar song. I wonder: Is he the mirror in which I see myself? 
And turn to look in his eyes…but I don't see him. 
I hurry from the café. 
I think: Maybe he's a killer… 
or maybe a passerby who thinks 
I am a killer. 
He's afraid…and so am I. 

Mahmoud Darwish


----------



## Coyote

Mahmoud Darwish

Mahmoud Darwish (Arabic: محمود درويش‎) (13 March 1941 – 9 August 2008) was a Palestinian poet and author who won numerous awards for his literary output and was regarded as the Palestinian national poet. In his work, Palestine became a metaphor for the loss of Eden, birth and resurrection, and the anguish of dispossession and exile. He has been described as incarnating and reflecting "the tradition of the political poet in Islam, the man of action whose action is poetry".

Mahmoud Darwish was born in the village of al-Birwa in the Western Galilee. He was the second child of Salim and Houreyyah Darwish. His family were landowners. His mother was illiterate, but his grandfather taught him to read. After Israeli forces assaulted his village of al-Birwa in June 1948 the family fled to Lebanon, first to Jezzin and then Damour. The village was then razed and destroyed by the Israeli army to prevent its inhabitants from returning to their homes inside the new Jewish state. A year later, Darwish's family returned to the Acre area, which was now part of Israel, and settled in Deir al-Asad. Darwish attended high school in Kafr Yasif, two kilometers north of Jadeidi. He eventually moved to Haifa.

He published his first book of poetry, Asafir bila ajniha or Wingless Birds, at the age of nineteen. He initially published his poems in Al Jadid, the literary periodical of the Israeli Communist Party, eventually becoming its editor. Later, he was Assistant Editor of Al Fajr, a literary periodical published by the Israeli Workers Party (Mapam). Darwish was impressed by the Arab poets Abed al-Wahab al Bayati and Bader Shaker al-Sayab.
Darwish left Israel in 1970 to study in the USSR. He attended the University of Moscow for one year, before moving to Egypt and Lebanon. When he joined the PLO in 1973, he was banned from reentering Israel. In 1995, he returned to attend the funeral of his colleague, Emile Habibi and received a permit to remain in Haifa for four days. Darwish was allowed to settle in Ramallah in 1995, although he said he felt he was living in exile there, and did not consider the West Bank his "private homeland."

Darwish was twice married and divorced. His first wife was the writer Rana Kabbani. In the mid-1980s, he married an Egyptian translator, Hayat Heeni. He had no children. Darwish had a history of heart disease, suffering a heart attack in 1984, followed by two heart operations, in 1984 and 1998.

His final visit to Israel was on 15 July 2007, to attend a poetry recital at Mt. Carmel Auditorium in Haifa, in which he criticized the factional violence between Fatah and Hamas as a "suicide attempt in the streets".
Darwish published over thirty volumes of poetry and eight books of prose. He was editor of Al-Jadid, Al-Fajr, Shu'un Filistiniyya and Al-Karmel (1981). On 1 May 1965 when the young Darwish read his poem “Bitaqat huwiyya” to a crowd in a Nazareth movie house, there was a tumultuous reaction. Within days the poem had spread throughout the country and the Arab world. Published in his second volume "Leaves of Olives" (Haifa 1964), the six stanzas of the poem repeat the cry “Write down: I am an Arab.”
In the 1970s, “Darwish, as a Palestinian poet of the Resistance committed himself to the . . . objective of nurturing the vision of defeat and disaster (after the June War of 1967), so much so that it would ‘gnaw at the hearts’ of the forthcoming generations.”

Palestinian poetry often addresses the Nakba and the resultant tragedies. The mid 1980s saw the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and preceded the outbreak of the first Intifada (uprising) on the West Bank and Gaza Strip in December 1987. Mahmoud Darwish addressed these and other issues in Ward aqall [Fewer Roses] (1986), and more specifically in one poem, “Sa-ya’ti barabira akharun” [Other Barbarians Will Come”].

Darwish's work won numerous awards, and has been published in 20 languages. A central theme in Darwish's poetry is the concept of watan or homeland. The poet Naomi Shihab Nye wrote that Darwish "is the essential breath of the Palestinian people, the eloquent witness of exile and belonging...."


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Shadia Mansour ~ "On this earth is what makes life worth living" by Mahmoud Darwish*


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## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Janna Jihad*


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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Linkiloo

Coyote said:


> Mahmoud Darwish
> 
> Mahmoud Darwish (Arabic: محمود درويش‎) (13 March 1941 – 9 August 2008) was a Palestinian poet and author who won numerous awards for his literary output and was regarded as the Palestinian national poet. In his work, Palestine became a metaphor for the loss of Eden, birth and resurrection, and the anguish of dispossession and exile. He has been described as incarnating and reflecting "the tradition of the political poet in Islam, the man of action whose action is poetry".
> 
> Mahmoud Darwish was born in the village of al-Birwa in the Western Galilee. He was the second child of Salim and Houreyyah Darwish. His family were landowners. His mother was illiterate, but his grandfather taught him to read. After Israeli forces assaulted his village of al-Birwa in June 1948 the family fled to Lebanon, first to Jezzin and then Damour. The village was then razed and destroyed by the Israeli army to prevent its inhabitants from returning to their homes inside the new Jewish state. A year later, Darwish's family returned to the Acre area, which was now part of Israel, and settled in Deir al-Asad. Darwish attended high school in Kafr Yasif, two kilometers north of Jadeidi. He eventually moved to Haifa.
> 
> He published his first book of poetry, Asafir bila ajniha or Wingless Birds, at the age of nineteen. He initially published his poems in Al Jadid, the literary periodical of the Israeli Communist Party, eventually becoming its editor. Later, he was Assistant Editor of Al Fajr, a literary periodical published by the Israeli Workers Party (Mapam). Darwish was impressed by the Arab poets Abed al-Wahab al Bayati and Bader Shaker al-Sayab.
> Darwish left Israel in 1970 to study in the USSR. He attended the University of Moscow for one year, before moving to Egypt and Lebanon. When he joined the PLO in 1973, he was banned from reentering Israel. In 1995, he returned to attend the funeral of his colleague, Emile Habibi and received a permit to remain in Haifa for four days. Darwish was allowed to settle in Ramallah in 1995, although he said he felt he was living in exile there, and did not consider the West Bank his "private homeland."
> 
> Darwish was twice married and divorced. His first wife was the writer Rana Kabbani. In the mid-1980s, he married an Egyptian translator, Hayat Heeni. He had no children. Darwish had a history of heart disease, suffering a heart attack in 1984, followed by two heart operations, in 1984 and 1998.
> 
> His final visit to Israel was on 15 July 2007, to attend a poetry recital at Mt. Carmel Auditorium in Haifa, in which he criticized the factional violence between Fatah and Hamas as a "suicide attempt in the streets".
> Darwish published over thirty volumes of poetry and eight books of prose. He was editor of Al-Jadid, Al-Fajr, Shu'un Filistiniyya and Al-Karmel (1981). On 1 May 1965 when the young Darwish read his poem “Bitaqat huwiyya” to a crowd in a Nazareth movie house, there was a tumultuous reaction. Within days the poem had spread throughout the country and the Arab world. Published in his second volume "Leaves of Olives" (Haifa 1964), the six stanzas of the poem repeat the cry “Write down: I am an Arab.”
> In the 1970s, “Darwish, as a Palestinian poet of the Resistance committed himself to the . . . objective of nurturing the vision of defeat and disaster (after the June War of 1967), so much so that it would ‘gnaw at the hearts’ of the forthcoming generations.”
> 
> Palestinian poetry often addresses the Nakba and the resultant tragedies. The mid 1980s saw the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and preceded the outbreak of the first Intifada (uprising) on the West Bank and Gaza Strip in December 1987. Mahmoud Darwish addressed these and other issues in Ward aqall [Fewer Roses] (1986), and more specifically in one poem, “Sa-ya’ti barabira akharun” [Other Barbarians Will Come”].
> 
> Darwish's work won numerous awards, and has been published in 20 languages. A central theme in Darwish's poetry is the concept of watan or homeland. The poet Naomi Shihab Nye wrote that Darwish "is the essential breath of the Palestinian people, the eloquent witness of exile and belonging...."




Wow only the Jews can assault a village...LOL. I'd love to know where that summary of his life really emanates from....also if Palestine is a metaphor for loss of Eden, then perhaps Eden is his real Homeland?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?



Since there was no mass immigration to Egypt and Palestine from the beggining of the christian calendar to the 19th century there's only one way to explain it:

The ancient Egyptians went through a process of arabization and conversion to Islam and Christianity.

The ancient Jews and other pagan peoples of the region went through the same process of arabization.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *José*
> The region of Palestine was militarily occupied by the army of a people who took away the right of the native people to govern their homeland, decide whether they wanted to create a state in Palestine ... and preserve the ethnic make up of their land.





> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Good.  Now apply that to the Jewish people.



To the ancient, semitic jewish people suffering under the Roman occupation... yes... applied in a heartbeat, without any problems.

To Poles and Ukrainians of jewish faith... hell no!! 

This is using a shared religion to legitimize european colonialism, dehumanization and ethnic supremacism.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> It fits the description of the dissolution of retired nations like Yugoslavia and the creation of new States as well. You are okay with Yugoslavia splitting up, right?



The main strategy used by people who try to defend racial dictatorships is precisely the one Shusha is using right now:

Doing everything in their power to hide, to blur, to erase all the differences that separate a racial dictatorship like Israel and any other state in the world...

In this particular example, she's trying to erase the differences between a classic ethnocratic conflict (*american settlers* x *native americans*, *eastern european settlers* x *native arabs*) and a *LEGITIMATE* civil war waged between two or more native groups (Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, etc...)


----------



## José

Coyote considered her post an olympic winner because, having been born in the US, a society that's almost as zionist as Israel itself, she absorbed, probably at an early age, the foundational myth of the state of Israel according to which the europeans of jewish faith that founded the country had any kind of legitimate claim over a territory located thousands of miles from their european homelands.

If the Poles, Germans and Russians of jewish faith who founded Israel are natives of Palestine it is indeed a civil war between two groups of natives just like in Yugoslavia.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Rocco*
> You cannot apply concepts of the 21st Century to common practice and understanding at the turn of the 19th Century into the very beginning of the 20th Century.



It is true that imperialism/colonialism were much more socially accepted in 18th, 19th century Europe than today.

But if colonial domination were universally accepted in human history no historian could explain the Jewish Revolt in Palestine against the roman occupation, the Indian Wars in the US and the American Revolution itself....

Your argument that imperialism was more socially accepted in the West 120 years ago than it is now is absolutely true....

As a definitive proof that you are right, we just have to look at the complete lack of shame with which the zionist movement talked openly about the colonization of Palestine to the point of naming their organizations with overt, blatant references to colonialism:

Jewish Colonization Association - Wikipedia

Palestine Jewish Colonization Association - Wikipedia

But let's not forget that the fundamental difference is not the historical period.... but *which end of the imperialist cannonball you happen to find yourself at a given moment*.


----------



## thetor

Linkiloo said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud Darwish
> 
> Mahmoud Darwish (Arabic: محمود درويش‎) (13 March 1941 – 9 August 2008) was a Palestinian poet and author who won numerous awards for his literary output and was regarded as the Palestinian national poet. In his work, Palestine became a metaphor for the loss of Eden, birth and resurrection, and the anguish of dispossession and exile. He has been described as incarnating and reflecting "the tradition of the political poet in Islam, the man of action whose action is poetry".
> 
> Mahmoud Darwish was born in the village of al-Birwa in the Western Galilee. He was the second child of Salim and Houreyyah Darwish. His family were landowners. His mother was illiterate, but his grandfather taught him to read. After Israeli forces assaulted his village of al-Birwa in June 1948 the family fled to Lebanon, first to Jezzin and then Damour. The village was then razed and destroyed by the Israeli army to prevent its inhabitants from returning to their homes inside the new Jewish state. A year later, Darwish's family returned to the Acre area, which was now part of Israel, and settled in Deir al-Asad. Darwish attended high school in Kafr Yasif, two kilometers north of Jadeidi. He eventually moved to Haifa.
> 
> He published his first book of poetry, Asafir bila ajniha or Wingless Birds, at the age of nineteen. He initially published his poems in Al Jadid, the literary periodical of the Israeli Communist Party, eventually becoming its editor. Later, he was Assistant Editor of Al Fajr, a literary periodical published by the Israeli Workers Party (Mapam). Darwish was impressed by the Arab poets Abed al-Wahab al Bayati and Bader Shaker al-Sayab.
> Darwish left Israel in 1970 to study in the USSR. He attended the University of Moscow for one year, before moving to Egypt and Lebanon. When he joined the PLO in 1973, he was banned from reentering Israel. In 1995, he returned to attend the funeral of his colleague, Emile Habibi and received a permit to remain in Haifa for four days. Darwish was allowed to settle in Ramallah in 1995, although he said he felt he was living in exile there, and did not consider the West Bank his "private homeland."
> 
> Darwish was twice married and divorced. His first wife was the writer Rana Kabbani. In the mid-1980s, he married an Egyptian translator, Hayat Heeni. He had no children. Darwish had a history of heart disease, suffering a heart attack in 1984, followed by two heart operations, in 1984 and 1998.
> 
> His final visit to Israel was on 15 July 2007, to attend a poetry recital at Mt. Carmel Auditorium in Haifa, in which he criticized the factional violence between Fatah and Hamas as a "suicide attempt in the streets".
> Darwish published over thirty volumes of poetry and eight books of prose. He was editor of Al-Jadid, Al-Fajr, Shu'un Filistiniyya and Al-Karmel (1981). On 1 May 1965 when the young Darwish read his poem “Bitaqat huwiyya” to a crowd in a Nazareth movie house, there was a tumultuous reaction. Within days the poem had spread throughout the country and the Arab world. Published in his second volume "Leaves of Olives" (Haifa 1964), the six stanzas of the poem repeat the cry “Write down: I am an Arab.”
> In the 1970s, “Darwish, as a Palestinian poet of the Resistance committed himself to the . . . objective of nurturing the vision of defeat and disaster (after the June War of 1967), so much so that it would ‘gnaw at the hearts’ of the forthcoming generations.”
> 
> Palestinian poetry often addresses the Nakba and the resultant tragedies. The mid 1980s saw the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and preceded the outbreak of the first Intifada (uprising) on the West Bank and Gaza Strip in December 1987. Mahmoud Darwish addressed these and other issues in Ward aqall [Fewer Roses] (1986), and more specifically in one poem, “Sa-ya’ti barabira akharun” [Other Barbarians Will Come”].
> 
> Darwish's work won numerous awards, and has been published in 20 languages. A central theme in Darwish's poetry is the concept of watan or homeland. The poet Naomi Shihab Nye wrote that Darwish "is the essential breath of the Palestinian people, the eloquent witness of exile and belonging...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow only the Jews can assault a village...LOL. I'd love to know where that summary of his life really emanates from....also if Palestine is a metaphor for loss of Eden, then perhaps Eden is his real Homeland?
Click to expand...

If you knew your Jewish/Zionist history,you would not make such stupid and flippant comment....You need to Grow Up,only Ignorant people speak such unadulterated untrue rubbish,

So back to the Gutter for you,where you truly belong


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Coyote, _et al,_

Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.

"Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:

•  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions; 
•  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status; 
•  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
•  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
"Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
*SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_

So, what do we mean when we say:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

 (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
Within the concepts of a "right," what is:

Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
Who may, must, or must not to what to who?



Coyote said:


> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?


*(THE RUB)*

Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?

When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*] 

This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"

Political Status, 

Economic Development, 

Social Development, 

Cultural Development,
The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."

*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.

It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.

*(SIDEBAR)*

While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law. 

You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

No “palestinian” history for an invented ppl

Ancient Jewish history Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)


----------



## Sixties Fan

Readers might be interested to know that the Arabic version of the same *Ma'an* news organization has the same surreal accounting - innocent fellow, minding his own business, rushing to catch a bus and shot down in cold-blood by "occupation forces" - adding the not-so-inconsequential detail that *the Arab was killed.* No other report says he was, and it's fairly clear he wasn't.

This would-be killer is someone's son. If we were his parents, we would be busy this moment composing a heart-felt thank you note to the commanding officer of the young, cool-headed Nahal soldier doing guard duty at the Gush Etzion Junction where innumerable Arab-on-Israeli knifing attacks have resulted in deaths on both sides during the past two years. We would be saying thank you for sparing the life of our misguided, brain-washed, irresponsible and undeserving son who will now have the opportunity to either regret or to relive today's events.

That soldier, in the space of the handful of seconds available to him, had the power and the equipment to stop the knife attacker permanently. Instead he stuck to instructions and incapacitated him, leaving the medical professionals to bring the Pal Arab terrorist back to health - and a future.

A future which will now - as of this afternoon - include a guaranteed monthly salary from the terror-fixated Abbas regime and its appalling *Rewards for Terror* scheme. He's unlikely to ever be able to otherwise earn anything close to what the PA - thanks to unwitting or merely apathetic European and North American taxpayers - is about to start paying him for what he did in the Gush this afternoon.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 18-Oct-17: The luckiest Arab in the entire Gush


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ José, _et al,_

Great Post...   But I would offer this one last piece of an observation.



José said:


> Rocco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot apply concepts of the 21st Century to common practice and understanding at the turn of the 19th Century into the very beginning of the 20th Century.
> 
> 
> 
> As a definitive proof that you are right, we just have to look at the complete lack of shame with which the zionist movement talked openly about the colonization of Palestine to the point of naming their organizations with overt, blatant references to colonialism:
> 
> Jewish Colonization Association - Wikipedia
> 
> Palestine Jewish Colonization Association - Wikipedia
> 
> But let's not forget that the fundamental difference is not the historical period.... but *which end of the imperialist cannonball you happen to find yourself at a given moment*.
Click to expand...

*(OBSEVATION)*

*Definition of colonialization*
SOURCE:  Merriam-Wester on-line Dictionary.
*:*the act of colonializing or being colonialized;  especially *:*subjugation by colonial policies

outcries against colonialization and economic imperialism —_Economist_
*Definition of colonization*
SOURCE:  Merriam-Wester on-line Dictionary.
*:*an act or instance of colonizing​*(COMMENT)*

•  All acts of colonialism have elements of colonization. 

•  Not all acts of colonization include colonialization.​
Neither the Mandate nor the Jewish Agency, had any vision of colonial policies.  BUT, certainly there were elements of colonization since the very reason for Article 6 of the Mandate instructed The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes; for the establishment of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R
​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.


You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.

People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.

Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.

The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.


----------



## rylah

José said:


> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since there was no mass immigration to Egypt and Palestine from the beggining of the christian calendar to the 19th century there's only one way to explain it:
> 
> The ancient Egyptians went through a process of arabization and conversion to Islam and Christianity.
> 
> The ancient Jews and other pagan peoples of the region went through the same process of arabization.
Click to expand...


How convenient,  I'm sure You imagine that Native Americans became a tiny minority in their homeland, by magically "converting" to British or American. I guess You think they're only 1.6% of the US population because of convenience.

No mass migration??  For Jews, 2000 years of foreign occupation and migration of Arabian tribes, Greeks, Kurds, Bosnians, Egyptians and Greeks into their homeland - looks exactly like mass migration AND ethnic cleansing. Palestine was a hot point for invasion and demographic change, at the times that Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

You have villages and towns in Palestine that are wholly populated by Arabian tribes, each in his village.
And a whole quarter in Jerusalem for Moroccans, named after them...just to name a few.
The majority of Arabs in Palestine identify with either the northern Hejaz/Saudi tribes or southern tribes from Yemen.


If You think the Native Americans became a minority of 1.6% of the population in their homeland, simply by conversion into "British" or "Spanish", then You're just an apologist for ethnic cleansing.
In this case for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homeland. And let me remind You, team-Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine.

Q. Did the Native Americans call their homeland "America" as the the US citizens do?
Q. Did the Kurds call their homeland "Iraq" or "Iran"?
Q. What does the word "Palestine" mean in the language of the place?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
Click to expand...

By all means, insist in putting this link again and again.

1974.  After FOUR failed attempts at destroying Israel with military force.
-----------------
In 1974, the UN General Assembly invited Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, to address the General Assembly during the annual debate on Palestine. Arafat appeared before the UN in fatigue uniform, with his pistol showing. This period, following the Yom Kippur war, marked the ascendancy of the Palestinian in the UN for many years, and culminated in the Zionism is Racism resolution in 1975. On November 22, the UN General Assembly passed two resolutions 3326 and 3327, that recognized the cause of Palestinian self-determination and the status of the PLO as representing the Palestinian people, and gave the PLO observer status at the UN. 

Particularly interesting and problematic is the following: 

5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

The above phrase is a masterpiece of ambiguity. It could mean that the Palestinians have the right to use all means (including indiscriminate terror against civilians) to attain their rights, in accordance with the fact that the UN Charter supports self-determination. However,  it could mean that they have the right to attain their rights only using means that are in accordance with the purposes and principles of the charter, which does not support war crimes. Though it is hard to believe, since at the time of adoption of the resolution, the PLO and other Palestinian groups were engaged in hijacking air planes and killing school children, the former interpretation may be the correct one.

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

[By all means, let us not forget how the "Palestinians" were going about attempting to force Israel to cease to exist.

1972  Munich kidnapping and murder of the Israeli team

1973  Yom Kippur war

One could say that after the Yom Kippur war and their loss, is when the Arabs, now calling themselves Palestinians for the past 9 years, decided to switch the way they were going to go about to succeed in destroying Israel.

When military war does not work, the word of mouth may do the trick.  Just ask the Russians and any other authoritarian country what they do when they want to get their way, outside of invading another country ]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By all means, insist in putting this link again and again.
> 
> 1974.  After FOUR failed attempts at destroying Israel with military force.
> -----------------
> In 1974, the UN General Assembly invited Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, to address the General Assembly during the annual debate on Palestine. Arafat appeared before the UN in fatigue uniform, with his pistol showing. This period, following the Yom Kippur war, marked the ascendancy of the Palestinian in the UN for many years, and culminated in the Zionism is Racism resolution in 1975. On November 22, the UN General Assembly passed two resolutions 3326 and 3327, that recognized the cause of Palestinian self-determination and the status of the PLO as representing the Palestinian people, and gave the PLO observer status at the UN.
> 
> Particularly interesting and problematic is the following:
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> The above phrase is a masterpiece of ambiguity. It could mean that the Palestinians have the right to use all means (including indiscriminate terror against civilians) to attain their rights, in accordance with the fact that the UN Charter supports self-determination. However,  it could mean that they have the right to attain their rights only using means that are in accordance with the purposes and principles of the charter, which does not support war crimes. Though it is hard to believe, since at the time of adoption of the resolution, the PLO and other Palestinian groups were engaged in hijacking air planes and killing school children, the former interpretation may be the correct one.
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> [By all means, let us not forget how the "Palestinians" were going about attempting to force Israel to cease to exist.
> 
> 1972  Munich kidnapping and murder of the Israeli team
> 
> 1973  Yom Kippur war
> 
> One could say that after the Yom Kippur war and their loss, is when the Arabs, now calling themselves Palestinians for the past 9 years, decided to switch the way they were going to go about to succeed in destroying Israel.
> 
> When military war does not work, the word of mouth may do the trick.  Just ask the Russians and any other authoritarian country what they do when they want to get their way, outside of invading another country ]
Click to expand...

Irrelevant to my post.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Coyote, _et al,_

The law applies equally to everyone.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

No, you are misrepresenting the covanent; with your own interpretation and application. You are implying that the Arab Palestinians have rights above all other; that they are so special that they have a unique set of rights.

*PART I *

_*Article 1  
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights 
entry into force 23 March 1976
*_
1. All *peoples* have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By all means, insist in putting this link again and again.
> 
> 1974.  After FOUR failed attempts at destroying Israel with military force.
> -----------------
> In 1974, the UN General Assembly invited Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, to address the General Assembly during the annual debate on Palestine. Arafat appeared before the UN in fatigue uniform, with his pistol showing. This period, following the Yom Kippur war, marked the ascendancy of the Palestinian in the UN for many years, and culminated in the Zionism is Racism resolution in 1975. On November 22, the UN General Assembly passed two resolutions 3326 and 3327, that recognized the cause of Palestinian self-determination and the status of the PLO as representing the Palestinian people, and gave the PLO observer status at the UN.
> 
> Particularly interesting and problematic is the following:
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> The above phrase is a masterpiece of ambiguity. It could mean that the Palestinians have the right to use all means (including indiscriminate terror against civilians) to attain their rights, in accordance with the fact that the UN Charter supports self-determination. However,  it could mean that they have the right to attain their rights only using means that are in accordance with the purposes and principles of the charter, which does not support war crimes. Though it is hard to believe, since at the time of adoption of the resolution, the PLO and other Palestinian groups were engaged in hijacking air planes and killing school children, the former interpretation may be the correct one.
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> [By all means, let us not forget how the "Palestinians" were going about attempting to force Israel to cease to exist.
> 
> 1972  Munich kidnapping and murder of the Israeli team
> 
> 1973  Yom Kippur war
> 
> One could say that after the Yom Kippur war and their loss, is when the Arabs, now calling themselves Palestinians for the past 9 years, decided to switch the way they were going to go about to succeed in destroying Israel.
> 
> When military war does not work, the word of mouth may do the trick.  Just ask the Russians and any other authoritarian country what they do when they want to get their way, outside of invading another country ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant to my post.
Click to expand...

Inconvenient to your post, ne pas?


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since there was no mass immigration to Egypt and Palestine from the beggining of the christian calendar to the 19th century there's only one way to explain it:
> 
> The ancient Egyptians went through a process of arabization and conversion to Islam and Christianity.
> 
> The ancient Jews and other pagan peoples of the region went through the same process of arabization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How convenient,  I'm sure You imagine that Native Americans became a tiny minority in their homeland, by magically "converting" to British or American. I guess You think they're only 1.6% of the US population because of convenience.
> 
> No mass migration??  For Jews, 2000 years of foreign occupation and migration of Arabian tribes, Greeks, Kurds, Bosnians, Egyptians and Greeks into their homeland - looks exactly like mass migration AND ethnic cleansing. Palestine was a hot point for invasion and demographic change, at the times that Jews were banned from Jerusalem.
> 
> You have villages and towns in Palestine that are wholly populated by Arabian tribes, each in his village.
> And a whole quarter in Jerusalem for Moroccans, named after them...just to name a few.
> The majority of Arabs in Palestine identify with either the northern Hejaz/Saudi tribes or southern tribes from Yemen.
> 
> 
> If You think the Native Americans became a minority of 1.6% of the population in their homeland, simply by conversion into "British" or "Spanish", then You're just an apologist for ethnic cleansing.
> In this case for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homeland. And let me remind You, team-Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine.
> 
> Q. Did the Native Americans call their homeland "America" as the the US citizens do?
> Q. Did the Kurds call their homeland "Iraq" or "Iran"?
> Q. What does the word "Palestine" mean in the language of the place?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since there was no mass immigration to Egypt and Palestine from the beggining of the christian calendar to the 19th century there's only one way to explain it:
> 
> The ancient Egyptians went through a process of arabization and conversion to Islam and Christianity.
> 
> The ancient Jews and other pagan peoples of the region went through the same process of arabization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How convenient,  I'm sure You imagine that Native Americans became a tiny minority in their homeland, by magically "converting" to British or American. I guess You think they're only 1.6% of the US population because of convenience.
> 
> No mass migration??  For Jews, 2000 years of foreign occupation and migration of Arabian tribes, Greeks, Kurds, Bosnians, Egyptians and Greeks into their homeland - looks exactly like mass migration AND ethnic cleansing. Palestine was a hot point for invasion and demographic change, at the times that Jews were banned from Jerusalem.
> 
> You have villages and towns in Palestine that are wholly populated by Arabian tribes, each in his village.
> And a whole quarter in Jerusalem for Moroccans, named after them...just to name a few.
> The majority of Arabs in Palestine identify with either the northern Hejaz/Saudi tribes or southern tribes from Yemen.
> 
> 
> If You think the Native Americans became a minority of 1.6% of the population in their homeland, simply by conversion into "British" or "Spanish", then You're just an apologist for ethnic cleansing.
> In this case for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homeland. And let me remind You, team-Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine.
> 
> Q. Did the Native Americans call their homeland "America" as the the US citizens do?
> Q. Did the Kurds call their homeland "Iraq" or "Iran"?
> Q. What does the word "Palestine" mean in the language of the place?
Click to expand...


Um, Arab palestine? No p in Arabic


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> The law applies equally to everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, you are misrepresenting the covanent; with your own interpretation and application. You are implying that the Arab Palestinians have rights above all other; that they are so special that they have a unique set of rights.
> 
> *PART I *
> 
> _*Article 1
> International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
> entry into force 23 March 1976
> *_
> 1. All *peoples* have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

That is correct. That does not refute my post at all.


----------



## rylah

JoelT1 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since there was no mass immigration to Egypt and Palestine from the beggining of the christian calendar to the 19th century there's only one way to explain it:
> 
> The ancient Egyptians went through a process of arabization and conversion to Islam and Christianity.
> 
> The ancient Jews and other pagan peoples of the region went through the same process of arabization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How convenient,  I'm sure You imagine that Native Americans became a tiny minority in their homeland, by magically "converting" to British or American. I guess You think they're only 1.6% of the US population because of convenience.
> 
> No mass migration??  For Jews, 2000 years of foreign occupation and migration of Arabian tribes, Greeks, Kurds, Bosnians, Egyptians and Greeks into their homeland - looks exactly like mass migration AND ethnic cleansing. Palestine was a hot point for invasion and demographic change, at the times that Jews were banned from Jerusalem.
> 
> You have villages and towns in Palestine that are wholly populated by Arabian tribes, each in his village.
> And a whole quarter in Jerusalem for Moroccans, named after them...just to name a few.
> The majority of Arabs in Palestine identify with either the northern Hejaz/Saudi tribes or southern tribes from Yemen.
> 
> 
> If You think the Native Americans became a minority of 1.6% of the population in their homeland, simply by conversion into "British" or "Spanish", then You're just an apologist for ethnic cleansing.
> In this case for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homeland. And let me remind You, team-Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine.
> 
> Q. Did the Native Americans call their homeland "America" as the the US citizens do?
> Q. Did the Kurds call their homeland "Iraq" or "Iran"?
> Q. What does the word "Palestine" mean in the language of the place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since there was no mass immigration to Egypt and Palestine from the beggining of the christian calendar to the 19th century there's only one way to explain it:
> 
> The ancient Egyptians went through a process of arabization and conversion to Islam and Christianity.
> 
> The ancient Jews and other pagan peoples of the region went through the same process of arabization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How convenient,  I'm sure You imagine that Native Americans became a tiny minority in their homeland, by magically "converting" to British or American. I guess You think they're only 1.6% of the US population because of convenience.
> 
> No mass migration??  For Jews, 2000 years of foreign occupation and migration of Arabian tribes, Greeks, Kurds, Bosnians, Egyptians and Greeks into their homeland - looks exactly like mass migration AND ethnic cleansing. Palestine was a hot point for invasion and demographic change, at the times that Jews were banned from Jerusalem.
> 
> You have villages and towns in Palestine that are wholly populated by Arabian tribes, each in his village.
> And a whole quarter in Jerusalem for Moroccans, named after them...just to name a few.
> The majority of Arabs in Palestine identify with either the northern Hejaz/Saudi tribes or southern tribes from Yemen.
> 
> 
> If You think the Native Americans became a minority of 1.6% of the population in their homeland, simply by conversion into "British" or "Spanish", then You're just an apologist for ethnic cleansing.
> In this case for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homeland. And let me remind You, team-Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine.
> 
> Q. Did the Native Americans call their homeland "America" as the the US citizens do?
> Q. Did the Kurds call their homeland "Iraq" or "Iran"?
> Q. What does the word "Palestine" mean in the language of the place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, Arab palestine? No p in Arabic
Click to expand...


Exactly to the point.
*
Talking about foreign mass migration*... barely any Arab in Palestine, if at all, can pronounce the 1st letter of his supposed fictional homeland - the letter "P".
Take any Jew who came from an Arab country, and he can pronounce BOTH "Palestine" and "Israel".
_
"Palestinians"_ in a nutshell.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
Click to expand...


Wait a second...

What about Palestinian Jews??


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians? Watch


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I'm sorry.



P F Tinmore said:


> That is correct. That does not refute my post at all.


*(COMMENT)*

I got the impression that you thought I had it wrong.

v/r
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Hamas recognizes that Israel exists. But just wants to wipe it out ]

Hamas chief: We won’t discuss recognizing Israel, only wiping it out


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is correct. That does not refute my post at all.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I got the impression that you thought I had it wrong.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

The issue with Tinmore is that he does not recognize the Jews as being native to the land, only the Arabs.

Jews are European, as the Arabs have been circulating since 1964, and have absolutely no right to any part of the Mandate for Palestine.

He often states that Israel does not exist.  Only Palestine.
(He chooses who the Palestinians are. No mention of TransJordan.  Of the Hashemite clan which now holds that area as they are not considered Palestinians)


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is correct. That does not refute my post at all.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I got the impression that you thought I had it wrong.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue with Tinmore is that he does not recognize the Jews as being native to the land, only the Arabs.
> 
> Jews are European, as the Arabs have been circulating since 1964, and have absolutely no right to any part of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> He often states that Israel does not exist.  Only Palestine.
> (He chooses who the Palestinians are. No mention of TransJordan.  Of the Hashemite clan which now holds that area as they are not considered Palestinians)
Click to expand...


Israel is attested to in the ancient sources. Palestine never existed. Watch


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Mass murderers honored at Palestinian University*

*New students at Al-Quds University 
taught that terrorist murderers are heroes*






[Official Fatah Facebook page, Oct. 15, 2017]

*Main banner at reception for new students featured photos of terror leaders responsible for the deaths of many hundreds of Israeli civilians*
(From left to right on banner) 


*Abu Ali Mustafa, head of PLFP*
*Fathi Shaqaqi, founder of Islamic Jihad*
*Ahmad Yassin, founder of Hamas*
*Yasser Arafat, former PLO, Fatah and PA Chairman*
*Salah Khalaf, head of Black September*
*Abu Jihad, head of the PLO terror organization's military wing
*

*Senior Fatah official Jamal Muhaisen spoke at reception*

(full article online)

Mass murderers honored at Palestinian University  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is correct. That does not refute my post at all.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I got the impression that you thought I had it wrong.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue with Tinmore is that he does not recognize the Jews as being native to the land, only the Arabs.
> 
> Jews are European, as the Arabs have been circulating since 1964, and have absolutely no right to any part of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> He often states that Israel does not exist.  Only Palestine.
> (He chooses who the Palestinians are. No mention of TransJordan.  Of the Hashemite clan which now holds that area as they are not considered Palestinians)
Click to expand...


Which ancient People wrote the Bible, in Israel? Watch

The Hebrew Bible | The Story of the Jews | PBS


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is correct. That does not refute my post at all.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I got the impression that you thought I had it wrong.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The issue with Tinmore is that he does not recognize the Jews as being native to the land, only the Arabs.
> 
> Jews are European, as the Arabs have been circulating since 1964, and have absolutely no right to any part of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> He often states that Israel does not exist.  Only Palestine.
> (He chooses who the Palestinians are. No mention of TransJordan.  Of the Hashemite clan which now holds that area as they are not considered Palestinians)
Click to expand...


Which ancient People wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls? Watch

Dead Sea Scrolls – Cultural Institute


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pictures posted on the Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Bethlehem Branch

The pictures show diaries distributed by the Bethlehem Branch of the Fatah youth movement Shabiba to all of the schools in the Bethlehem district. On the front cover of the diaries is a photo of Yasser Arafat together with the logos of Fatah and the PLO which include the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas. 

On the back cover is a photo of Abu Jihad, arch-terrorist responsible for the murder of 125 Israelis and a photo of Salah Khalaf, who was the head of the terror organization Black September, a secret branch of Fatah. Attacks Salah Khalaf planned included the murder of the 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972.

(full article online)

Fatah youth movement distributes diaries with images of terrorist "Martyrs" Abu Jihad and Salah Khalaf on covers to high schoolers - PA and Fatah social media|PMW


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> To the ancient, semitic jewish people suffering under the Roman occupation... yes... applied in a heartbeat, without any problems.
> 
> To Poles and Ukrainians of jewish faith... hell no!!
> 
> This is using a shared religion ....



So, theoretically, if we found any of those ancient, semitic, Jewish people or their descendants you would wholeheartedly grant them self-determination on their ancestral and historical lands?  How would you know if you found them? 

They would obviously be different than the Jewish people in Poland and the Ukraine.  Because you've eliminated Polish and Ukrainian Jews from that group. 

How would be able to tell if a Jewish person was a descendant of a "real" Jew or a synthetic Jew?


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> To Poles and Ukrainians of jewish faith... hell no!!
> 
> This is using a shared religion to legitimize ... colonialism ...



Okay, so no Jews who lived in Poland.  No Jews who lived in the Ukraine.

What about Jews who lived in Spain?  Yes or no and why?

What about Jews who lived in the Arab countries?  Yes or no and why?

What about Jews who lived in the African countries?  Yes or no and why?

What about Jews who lived in the territory, such as Jerusalem?  Yes or no and why?


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> The main strategy used by people who try to defend racial dictatorships is precisely the one Shusha is using right now:
> 
> Doing everything in their power to hide, to blur, to erase all the differences that separate a racial dictatorship like Israel and any other state in the world...
> 
> In this particular example, she's trying to erase the differences between a classic ethnocratic conflict (*american settlers* x *native americans*, *eastern european settlers* x *native arabs*) and a *LEGITIMATE* civil war waged between two or more native groups (Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, etc...)



On the contrary, the Palestinians and those on their team do everything in their power to hide, blur and erase the undeniable connection of the Jewish people (all of them) and their ancestral and historical homeland.  The Jewish people (all of them) believe they are returning home.  Which makes it very distinctly NOT like the European settlers to the Americas where there is no such connection.  And makes it very much a LEGITIMATE civil war waged between two or more native groups.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.



Both the Jewish people and the Arab "Palestinian" people have national rights in Palestine.  

_Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of *the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

*Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;*_


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait a second...
> 
> What about Palestinian Jews??
Click to expand...

They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Mahmoud Darwish
> 
> Mahmoud Darwish was born in the village of al-Birwa in the Western Galilee. After Israeli forces assaulted his village of al-Birwa in June 1948 the family fled to Lebanon, first to Jezzin and then Damour. The village was then razed and destroyed by the Israeli army to prevent its inhabitants from returning to their homes inside the new Jewish state. A year later, Darwish's family returned to the Acre area, which was now part of Israel, and settled in Deir al-Asad. Darwish attended high school in Kafr Yasif, two kilometers north of Jadeidi. He eventually moved to Haifa.



I'm just going to add to this that the village was a place of heavy fighting and resistance which went on for some time.


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
Click to expand...


Common “palestinian” surnames: al-Masri “the Egyptian, al-Iraqi, Maghrebi (North Africa) 

No self-determination?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.


Oh the kumbaya fairytale again... 

Now for facts:

The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.

Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Coyote, _et al,_
> 
> Certainly their are some great differences between the opinions; at least in this discussion group.  BUT, it is a good question, because it asks us to review what a "Right" is.
> 
> "Rights" is the generalized term for an indeterminate entitlements _(not to be confused with a grant or benefit)_ either:
> 
> •  TO perform → or → NOT to perform certain actions;
> •  TO be placed in → or → NOT to be placed in a certain condition or status;
> •  That others perform → or → NOT perform certain actions;
> •  That others be in → or → NOT be in certain condition or status.​
> "Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as it is currently perceived. To *accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority*, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done."
> *SOURCE:* _First published Mon Dec 19, 2005 - *Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015_
> 
> So, what do we mean when we say:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
> Within the concepts of a "right," what is:
> 
> Being directed to perform (or not to perform)?
> What condition or state is being set (or not set)?
> Who may, must, or must not to what to who?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people?  Is it personally threatening?  Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?  Is it a zero sum game?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE RUB)*
> 
> Before we can discuss the 'right of self-determination," we must define what constitutes "self-determination?" dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours?
> 
> When we talk about the right of self-determination; the Covenant says that:  "All peoples have the right of self-determination.  → By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."  [See:  Article 1:  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) 1966* (entered into force in 1976)*]
> 
> This _[and not the UN Charter Article 1(2)]_ that actually defines the constituent parts of "self-determination:"
> 
> Political Status,
> 
> Economic Development,
> 
> Social Development,
> 
> Cultural Development,
> The CCPR even recognizes the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved "if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians consider their "rights" to be be something owed to them and paramount above all others; conveniently forgetting the clause that means if conditions are created whereby* both the Palestinian and Israeli may enjoy his civil and political rights, *as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.
> 
> It is not that anyone denies rights; but that what they means and how the Palestinians attempt to apply them.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> While there are several unenforceable resolutions that mention these rights, A/RES/49/148 (Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination) and A/RES/3236 (the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination), what you think it says, is not necessarily what it means.  Neither changes how the Covenant (International Law) treats those rights.  This is really a legal argument that is subject to the 1970 Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/26/25).  And it is in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States that stipulates that international disputes must be resolved by peaceful means; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  Once the Arab Palestinians, with the support of the Arab League, threatened and then staged force to violate the existing Armistice Lines, the question ceased to be a matter of "rights" but a violation of the Rule of Law.
> 
> You may notice that neither the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) or the CCPR makes any mention of → self-determination, sovereignty or independence in the context as discussed; except as stipulated above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All *peoples* have the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflating or confusing peoples and people. Those are two different categories with two different systems of rights.
> 
> People/person/persons have individual rights like the right to life, liberty, etc. without regard to where they are.
> 
> Peoples/a people have national/collective rights within a defined territory. (Montevideo requires a defined territory, and peoples have the right to territorial integrity.) The French are "a people" with national rights in France. The British are "a people" with national rights in Britain.
> 
> The French have individual rights in Britain, but they do not have national rights there. The British have individual rights in France, but they do not have national rights there.
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:...
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> The Palestinians have national rights in Palestine. Others don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait a second...
> 
> What about Palestinian Jews??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
Click to expand...


No difference between Judaism and Islam?


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
Click to expand...


D


rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
Click to expand...



Everyone knows Jesus was a palestinian Muslim


rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
Click to expand...


No differences between Arabs and Jews, EXCEPT origins, histories,  languages, and religions LOL


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
Click to expand...

It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Non-political?

Ashrawi gave a speech at another PCRF gathering in 2015 where she accused Israel of attempting to destroy Palestinians not only physically (11:27 -"Israel is a settler colonial project is attempting to complete the Nakba that started in 1947-48") but culturally (" a people [Jews] are attempting to eradicate the very
presence, the very history,  the very culture,  the very identity of another nation and to take over not just that land but that narrative.") She claimed that Israel created towns where they stole Arabic names and Hebraized them, which is the exact thing Arabs have done to Biblical-era sites.

(full article and video online)

"Non-political" Palestinian children's charity features anti-Israel rhetoric ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.
Click to expand...

 
You misunderstood my question - I wasn't talking about Zionists, but Palestinian Jews and their relationship with the Arabs in Palestine ( before Zionists came to Palestine).

Let's try again:


Q. Who divided the Jews from the rest of the Palestinian population, during the Arab pogroms against them in Palestine,* before Zionism*?


----------



## abi

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my question - I wasn't talking about Zionists, but Palestinian Jews and their relationship with the Arabs in Palestine ( before Zionists came to Palestine).
> 
> Let's try again:
> 
> 
> Q. Who divided the Jews from the rest of the Palestinian population, during the Arab pogroms against them in Palestine,* before Zionism*?
Click to expand...

You are starting from a false premise. You do this in many of your posts.


----------



## rylah

abi said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my question - I wasn't talking about Zionists, but Palestinian Jews and their relationship with the Arabs in Palestine ( before Zionists came to Palestine).
> 
> Let's try again:
> 
> 
> Q. Who divided the Jews from the rest of the Palestinian population, during the Arab pogroms against them in Palestine,* before Zionism*?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are starting from a false premise. You do this in many of your posts.
Click to expand...


So there were no Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews, before Zionism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Non-political?
> 
> Ashrawi gave a speech at another PCRF gathering in 2015 where she accused Israel of attempting to destroy Palestinians not only physically (11:27 -"Israel is a settler colonial project is attempting to complete the Nakba that started in 1947-48") but culturally (" a people [Jews] are attempting to eradicate the very
> presence, the very history,  the very culture,  the very identity of another nation and to take over not just that land but that narrative.") She claimed that Israel created towns where they stole Arabic names and Hebraized them, which is the exact thing Arabs have done to Biblical-era sites.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> "Non-political" Palestinian children's charity features anti-Israel rhetoric ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Thanks.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Non-political?
> 
> Ashrawi gave a speech at another PCRF gathering in 2015 where she accused Israel of attempting to destroy Palestinians not only physically (11:27 -"Israel is a settler colonial project is attempting to complete the Nakba that started in 1947-48") but culturally (" a people [Jews] are attempting to eradicate the very
> presence, the very history,  the very culture,  the very identity of another nation and to take over not just that land but that narrative.") She claimed that Israel created towns where they stole Arabic names and Hebraized them, which is the exact thing Arabs have done to Biblical-era sites.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> "Non-political" Palestinian children's charity features anti-Israel rhetoric ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


Q. How many Arab pogroms took place in Palestine against Jews, before a Zionist ever shot a bullet?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.



I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).

Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.

That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.


If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.

Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.



It was the Jewish people who wanted to have their own form of self-determination separate from the Arabs.  The HORROR!


How is this different from the Serbs who wanted to their own self-determination separate from the Bosnians?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.
Click to expand...


Get this: No palestine or palestinians in Arabs’ own Koran BUT Allah decrees Israel to Children of Israel


----------



## JoelT1

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who wanted to divide everybody up by religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Get this: No palestine or palestinians in Arabs’ own Koran BUT Allah decrees Israel to Children of Israel
Click to expand...


Turns out, in Arabs’ own Koran, Allah is a Zionist!


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


>



You wanna renounce your Koran for decreeing Israel to Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben-Youssef: Congressional Briefing - 50 Years of Occupation and Life for Palestinian Children*

**


----------



## Hollie

Children of The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Mother of terrorist daughter: “All of us, praise Allah, present our children [as sacrifices], and we do not regret a thing” 
Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Sept. 29, 2016

*Maryam Al-Khaddour, mother of terrorist Majd Al-Khaddour: *“We in the land of _Ribat _(i.e., religious conflict/war over land claimed to be Islamic) stand firm, Allah willing. And we are all on this path. May Allah have mercy on all of our Martyrs (_Shahids_). We are no better than Al-Khansa (woman in earliest period of Islam who rejoiced when her sons all died as Martyrs –Ed.)… All of us, praise Allah, present our children [as sacrifices], and we do not regret a thing.”

*Majd Al-Khaddour*_ – Palestinian female terrorist who carried out a car ramming attack outside of Kiryat Arba, near Hebron, on June 24, 2016. Al-Khaddour attempted to ram her car into a hitchhiking station but hit another car, wounding the two Israelis inside. During the attack Al-Khaddour was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers.

*Al-Khansa* - an Arab woman and poet from the earliest period of Islam (7th century) famous and honored in Islamic tradition for rejoicing when all four of her sons died in battle as Martyrs. She has been lauded by the PA and often presented as a role model for mothers, and the PA has named 8 schools after her._


----------



## JoelT1

No palestinian history for an invented people

Ancient Jewish history Surprising Mosaics Revealed in Ancient Synagogue in Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why does there have to be a relationship between two completely different marches in Manhattan on a single day? Because Puar wants there to be one. After all, she was equidistant from both - that must have some sort of divine (sorry, intersectional) meaning, right?

And, of course, Puar succeeds in finding that link, which is the basis for this entire book!

This isn't research. This isn't innovation. This is simply hate dressed up in academic clothing, and the hate that Puar has is just as toxic and noxious as the racism she pretends to oppose.

(full article online)

Jasbir Puar's intersectional anti-Israel academic gibberish ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here are the results of a poll of 500 Gazans carried out 12-14 October 2017 by An-Najah National University Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies 

From your own point view, what is the most ideal solution for the arms of resistance? 

37.8% Collecting all arms and there should be no arms other than the arms of 
one authority 
27.8% Restoring the situation to how it was before the dominance of Hamas 
over the Gaza Strip 
20.6% Leaving the situation as it is now 
13.8% No opinion/I do not know 

That's right - only 20.6% of Gazans support Hamas' demand that it keep its 
weapons.

(full article online)

IMRA - Thursday, October 19, 2017 Weekly Commentary: If a Mother Teresa was running Gaza She Couldn't Possess Rockets


----------



## Sixties Fan

Smardon knows that Gaza’s electricity and medicine crisis — and it really is a crisis — is the result of the Palestinian Authority decision to cut services that they had always provided.

But UNRWA’s fundraising arm will never demand that Palestinians take responsibility for other Palestinians.

No, instead, Smardon insists that Israel is the guilty party – even though Israel provides all the fuel that Gaza (and its sponsors) are willing to pay for, and even though Israel was supplying all the electricity that it could before Abbas demanded that it reduce the amount, and stopped paying for it.

(full article online)

UNRWA-USA Blames Israel for Abbas Cutting Services to Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Police: Palestinian nabbed with stolen truck, planned ramming attack on soldiers


----------



## Sixties Fan

The official Palestinian mission to Colombia on Thursday night tweeted a quote from former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat calling for the destruction of the State of Israel.

The tweet read, “Our goal is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromises or mediations…. We don’t want peace. We want WAR and victory — Yasser Arafat,” according to a spokesperson for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

(full article online)

Quoting Arafat, Palestinian mission in Colombia calls for Israel’s destruction


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arafat deceived the world about terror, says Palestinian leader


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah official: Jewish patriarch Abraham was a Muslim, “which refutes the Zionists’ (i.e., Jewish) claims” about the Cave of the Patriarchs and the Temple Mount 
Source: Al-Bawaba, Egyptian news website, Sept. 1, 2017

_Headline:_ “Fatah leader: The [Eid Al-Adha] holiday prayers at the Ibrahimi Mosque are a challenge against the occupation”

       “Fatah Movement Central Committee member and [Fatah] Commissioner for Arab and China Relations Abbas Zaki emphasized… in a statement to [the Egyptian news website] Al-Bawaba News today, Friday [Sept. 1, 2017], that… Israel is moving in the direction of unprecedented extremism, which makes it necessary to leave the deceptive illusion of peace and prepare to confront the occupation on all levels. He explained that Ibrahim (i.e., the Biblical figure Abraham), the father of the prophets, was a monotheistic Muslim (sic., in Jewish traition Abraham was the first Jew and lived over 2,000 years before Islam began), which refutes the Zionists’ claims about the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., Cave of the Patriarchs) and the Al-Aqsa Mosque (i.e., the Temple Mount). Therefore, the Arab and Islamic nation must have an active presence in order to deter the occupation and its steps against the Palestinian people, its land, and its holy sites.”

Jewish history rewritten | PMW


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the “palestinians”? In a region of ancient civilizations, how come no history of them, not even mentioned?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Interviewer: "Has the Palestinian leadership ever officially declared that it is no longer bound by the Oslo Accords?"

Salwa Hudaib: "The Vienna Convention stipulates that if any party breaches an agreement, that agreement becomes null and void. Israel did not implement the agreement within five years, and it continued its activities of settlement, of Judaization, of deportation, killings, and oppression, and only intensified its occupation and settlements, and therefore, we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. President Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] has not declared this officially, except for when he said, during the [2017] Al-Aqsa Uprising, that we were halting the [security] coordination and all bilateral relations with the Israelis. This started on July 14th, 2017, and it continues to this day. In addition, the popular resistance has intensified. So we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. I say, on my own behalf and on behalf of the Fatah movement, that we are not bound by the Oslo Accords, because these accords no longer exist on the ground."
----
The Oslo Accords created the Palestinian Authority. it is what gave the Palestinians self-rule over Areas A and B. 

So if they say it is abrogated, then Israel has every legal right to take over the entire West Bank again, and control it legally under international law, since there is no Palestinian legal entity.

(full article/video online)

If the PA isn't bound by the Oslo accords, then it should self-destruct, right? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
Click to expand...


Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.



> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?


So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?

The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
Click to expand...


Arabs admit “palestinians” are a complete scam They’re simply Arabs, no different than Arabs in 22 other Arab countries http://www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/

Bogus cause.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
Click to expand...



If you want to support a worthy cause for self-determination, support the Kurds: About 30 million Kurds and, unlike “palestinians” who are simply rebranded Arabs refusing to live in peace with Israel, Kurds are a legitimate People who do seek peaceful co-existence and are deserving of a state


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to support a worthy cause for self-determination, support the Kurds: About 30 million Kurds and, unlike “palestinians” who are simply rebranded Arabs refusing to live in peace with Israel, Kurds are a legitimate People who do seek peaceful co-existence and are deserving of a state
Click to expand...

Is it impossible to support both?

What do think is the solution?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
Click to expand...

Coyote,

The Hashemite Arabs were not Jordanians. They moved into the area around WWI being made to flee their ancient homeland.  But they did receive TransJordan in 1925 and that was that.  It became a State in 1946 as it was ready for it via the Mandate.

The Arabs who lived in the rest of the Mandate for Palestine got leaders who would not accept any Jewish sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.  Call them Arabs, Muslims, or Palestinians, the leaders refused partition into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, in 1937 and in 1947.

There have been continuous refusal for creating a Palestinian Arab State, besides Jordan since 1937.

We do say that the Palestinians are fake, because that is exactly what their leaders have said and exactly why Arafat, in Moscow with the KGB, created such a nationality.

This nationality has been intent in imposing false history via their narrative of being the most ancient people on the land.  They are not.

And they are not descendants of the Philistines, or the Canaanites, or of Abraham or any other people or person the leaders have decided to use in order to demand, yes demand, equal or more rights to the land than the Jews have over it.

Jews, and Israel, are not denying the 1400 year Arab/Muslim presence on the land since the Arab invasion.

The Muslims, some of them, are denying any Jewish connection to their ancient land by telling people that the Jews are nothing but European converts with no rights to the land at all.
That has also been going on since 1948.

Judea and Samaria were to be part of the Jewish part of the Mandate especially because that is where the beginning of Judaism is.
The Hashemites held on to it, after 1948, for 19 years keeping the Jews any access to their most holy of sites, all of them in those areas.
And the Temple Mount.

Do you accept that Israel and most Jews are for the partition which Israel did accept in 1937 and 1947, no matter where the negotiated borders will eventually be?

Israel has not delegitimized the Arabs rights to have their own state.
How many videos, etc, the charters from Hamas, the PLO and Fatah, how many sermons at Mosques or teachings via school curriculum or social media, have I posted where the Muslims are intent in destroying Israel.  Not living beside it.

Destroying Israel IS the intent, written, spoken and otherwise by the ARAB LEADERS.  They say it all the time.
Hamas just said that they will never give up their arms. That the Hamas/Fatah recent reunion is meant to destroy Israel.

ISRAEL =  living in peace in secure borders

Muslim leaders = destroy Israel


Are you reading anywhere where Hamas, PLO, Fatah and all others are really considering building an infrastructure as Israel did, and everything else that is required to be accepted as a Nation by the UN?

I check a lot of sites.  Articles and videos.  Arab countries are tired of what the Palestinians are doing.  Not all.  Then there is Iran which is funding Hamas and others to destroy Israel.

As the Arabs have said themselves, they considered themselves Syrian, and part of Greater Syria.  And that is what they wanted after WWI.  No Israel.  No sovereign Jewish State.

Hamas has talked about destroying Israel and starting its own Caliphate.

To create a Nationality, not to create a Nation, but to destroy another.
That is what Arafat did.
That is why we need to say that the Palestinians are an invention.
And a terrible one at that, especially for those poor Arab clans who 
got caught in the middle of Al-husseini's dream of another Muslim State, only.  Arafat is from the same clan.
Look at what Arafat has done from 1964 until his death.

Arafat had the chance to create that State on all of the West Bank.
He did not want to be assassinated and planned the intifada even before the meetings and negotiations.

When the people can force the leaders to create their own State, there will be a Palestinian state.
When Iran can be made to not meddle in the region for their own sake and power, there will be a Palestinian State.

It is nowhere near at this time.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Is this is a low month. Which country puts up with this? ]

103 terror attacks during month of September, lowest for that month since 2012

September terror attacks against Israelis at 5-year low


----------



## Sixties Fan

At a rally in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, Hamas’ second highest ranking military leader, Yahya Sinwar, not only denounced Greenblatt and the Trump administration’s demand, but declared that Hamas still has every intention of annihilating the State of Israel.

"Gone is the time in which Hamas discussed recognition of Israel. The discussion now is about when we will wipe out Israel," said Sinwar.

"No one has the ability to extract from us recognition of the occupation."

"No one will disarm us. No one can disarm Hamas."

(full article online)

Hamas to Trump: We want to wipe out Israel, not recognize it


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to support a worthy cause for self-determination, support the Kurds: About 30 million Kurds and, unlike “palestinians” who are simply rebranded Arabs refusing to live in peace with Israel, Kurds are a legitimate People who do seek peaceful co-existence and are deserving of a state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it impossible to support both?
> 
> What do think is the solution?
Click to expand...


Support peaceful ppl. Arabs themselves are fed up with “palestinians” Abd Al-Bari Atwan: The Arab Leaders Are Praying That Israel Will Get Rid of the Palestinians Once and for All


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

Arabs hate “palestinians” and pray they disappear Abd Al-Bari Atwan: The Arab Leaders Are Praying That Israel Will Get Rid of the Palestinians Once and for All


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.



It is not the same.  

There is a world of difference between saying:

"Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"

and saying:

"The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same.
> 
> There is a world of difference between saying:
> 
> "Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"
> 
> and saying:
> 
> "The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."
Click to expand...

That is not what they are saying though.

They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.

When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?

Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same.
> 
> There is a world of difference between saying:
> 
> "Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"
> 
> and saying:
> 
> "The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what they are saying though.
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
Click to expand...

Who is THEY?

Israel is not saying it, never did, and the negotiation is between Israel and the Palestinian leader, whoever that might be.

When do a people become a people?
When their leaders stop using them to destroy another people. Would that be asking too much?
The Arabs have chosen the Palestinian identity since 1964.
Now, it is a matter of making the Arab leaders of those Palestinians to choose to live in peace, side by side, with Israel and the Jews.

The identity is not the point.

The leaders demand that Israel be destroyed, is.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same.
> 
> There is a world of difference between saying:
> 
> "Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"
> 
> and saying:
> 
> "The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what they are saying though.
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is THEY?
> 
> Israel is not saying it, never did, and the negotiation is between Israel and the Palestinian leader, whoever that might be.
> 
> When do a people become a people?
> When their leaders stop using them to destroy another people. Would that be asking too much?
> The Arabs have chosen the Palestinian identity since 1964.
> Now, it is a matter of making the Arab leaders of those Palestinians to choose to live in peace, side by side, with Israel and the Jews.
> 
> The identity is not the point.
> 
> The leaders demand that Israel be destroyed, is.
Click to expand...

The they is some of the pro-Israel members on this thread.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same.
> 
> There is a world of difference between saying:
> 
> "Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"
> 
> and saying:
> 
> "The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what they are saying though.
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
Click to expand...


Arabs began identifying as “palestinians” in the 1960s. Just 1 problem: No p in Arabic to write or even say “palestinian” LOL


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same.
> 
> There is a world of difference between saying:
> 
> "Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"
> 
> and saying:
> 
> "The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what they are saying though.
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs began identifying as “palestinians” in the 1960s. Just 1 problem: No p in Arabic to write or even say “palestinian” LOL
Click to expand...


Arabs historically called Syria “Sham” not palestine, nor have they identified as “palestinians” for generations

Arabs identifying with the word “palestine” which originally referred to Greek Philistines, is plainly bogus


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the same.
> 
> There is a world of difference between saying:
> 
> "Of course! the Arab Palestinians should have self-determination -- here's 3/4 of Palestine!  Its all yours!"
> 
> and saying:
> 
> "The Jewish people have no right to self-determination or a nation."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what they are saying though.
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is THEY?
> 
> Israel is not saying it, never did, and the negotiation is between Israel and the Palestinian leader, whoever that might be.
> 
> When do a people become a people?
> When their leaders stop using them to destroy another people. Would that be asking too much?
> The Arabs have chosen the Palestinian identity since 1964.
> Now, it is a matter of making the Arab leaders of those Palestinians to choose to live in peace, side by side, with Israel and the Jews.
> 
> The identity is not the point.
> 
> The leaders demand that Israel be destroyed, is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The they is some of the pro-Israel members on this thread.
Click to expand...

What THEY have been saying is that Israel has accepted the partition since 1937 when it was first offered.  The Arab leaders have been rejecting any negotiation or compromise ever since.

What THEY are saying is that since 1920 the Arab/Muslim leaders have yelled nothing but death to Israel and death to the Jews, denying the Jews any sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland.

WHAT they are saying is that the Arab clan known as Hashemites ended up with 78% of the ancient land which was to go to the Jews, and ended up in Arab hands since 1925.

What THEY are saying, and I have shown many articles and videos, is that the Arab/Muslim leaders continue to demand nothing but the end of Israel so that they can create their Palestinian Nation over ALL of Gaza, West Bank and Israel.

Are you going to deny that 3/4 of the land which the Jews had total rights to become sovereign of, as of 1920, became the Land and country a clan of Arabs who did not belong on that land?

Will you deny that the Arab leaders have wanted nothing but the destruction of Israel and continue to educate their populations in Gaza and the PA that ALL of the land is theirs, stolen from them and they must give their lives and become martyrs for the cause of getting rid of Israel and the Jews living on it?

Peace does not depend on what some people on these threads say.
Peace depends on what the Arab leaders are going to continue to allow to be taught to their people, and if their people do not believe in it and do not want what the leaders want, the destruction of Israel, then how are they going to depose those leaders for those they can trust that they will be creating for them a better life, based on peace with Israel, and not the endless teachings of war against Israel and the Jews?

Do you understand some of the facts on the ground?


----------



## Mindful

The perfidy of the British:

The Balfour betrayal: How the British Empire failed Zionism


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.


Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.  



> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.


That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.  

There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".

The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)



> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?


THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?  

Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?  

Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?      


And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Coyote, _et al,_

Are you sure that is what they are saying.



Coyote said:


> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> When does a people  become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.


*(COMMENT)*

Before the Israeli Declaration of Independence, *the Arab Higher Committee made their position clear*.  And while there is no one clear voice talking on behalf of the Arab Palestinians, the has been no substantive change  in this position for more than half a century.

The Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following _(A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)_:


(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.

(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
There was no one actually saying, officially, that the Arab Palestinians have not right.  What was said was that  the Arab Palestinian did not have in 1920, and did not have in 1948, any exclusive right that would preclude the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

Further more, the Arab Palestinian constantly declined to participate with a voice in the self-governing process:

Paragraph 23, "Political History of Palestine under British Administration"
In 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.​That position did not change 'through the entire period the Mandate was active.  The position the Arab Palestinians finds itself in today has its origins in a time of the very creation of the Mandate superstructure and political framework.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

JoelT1 said:


> .
> Arabs began identifying as “palestinians” in the 1960s.



I would argue that it was later than that.  The UN first uses the term "Palestinians" (as opposed to Arabs or Arab civilians) in 1974.  (I think).


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Arabs began identifying as “palestinians” in the 1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would argue that it was later than that.  The UN first uses the term "Palestinians" (as opposed to Arabs or Arab civilians) in 1974.  (I think).
Click to expand...

1974 is also the year the article Tinmore loves to post is dated.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
Click to expand...


First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.

Second i want clarify a few things.

The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.

When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.

If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.



> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".



Agree.



> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)



Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?



> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
Click to expand...

Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.




> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
Click to expand...

All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
Click to expand...


Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL
Click to expand...

So what is your solution?


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Arabs began identifying as “palestinians” in the 1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would argue that it was later than that.  The UN first uses the term "Palestinians" (as opposed to Arabs or Arab civilians) in 1974.  (I think).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1974 is also the year the article Tinmore loves to post is dated.
Click to expand...


The significant change is the recognition of a quasi-governmental organization which represented the Palestinian people (as distinct).


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
Click to expand...


Arabs laugh: When were there any “palestinians?”


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your solution?
Click to expand...


Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
Click to expand...

Do you wont give a straight answer?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
Click to expand...


22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> Agree.
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
Click to expand...

So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
Click to expand...


Coyote, with all due respect:

"The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."


You are confusing the people.

The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.

The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".

The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)

Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.

That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.

And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.

Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?

The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.

Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny: “Palestinians” who are Arabs identify with “palestine” an English/Latin/Greek word referring to Philistines who were Greek LOL
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
Click to expand...

Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.

Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.

One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.

Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.

The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.

And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
Click to expand...


Birdbrain, you don’t know me, so STFU


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, Coyote, _et al,_

The names we use as placeholders for the various parties is, in the final analysis, really unimportant.



Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> You are confusing the people.
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The greater questions here are about political contentment of the 366 million Arab People in the world; and the preservation of the Jewish People ≈ 15 million in number _(24 times smaller by comparison)_.   You can call them Brand "X" and Brand "Y" the effect is still the same.

If we examine Brand "X" we find a huge cultural difference with that of Brand "Y".  

•  One _(in the 21st Century)_ embraces the concept that humanity must care for the Planet -- to preserve that which has been created.  It was once called the _Principle of Bal Tashchit (do not destroy)_, which forbids needless destruction both that living and that of treasure.

•  One embraces destruction of the world’s heritage and artifacts.   It is not uncommon to discover the burning ancient manuscripts, stealing art  --- and --- demolishing ancient architecture that is not in keeping with a particular interpretation of a code. 

•  One Brand forbids a destructive act that will cause the extinction of a species.  The other encourages the elimination of alternative Brands.​The identity names means nothing.  What the values and morals are do.  Theoretically, both Brands should be valued the same and both should have similar ideals.  BUT!  They don't.  Violent extremism grows in the vacuum of an identity crisis between brands.

Just My Thought,
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

“Palestinians” are Arabs, so how come there are no histories of them in Arabic nor any mention of them in Arab history?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Chomsky on how Hamas policies are more conducive to peace than the U.S.'s or Israel's*

**


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the “palestinians”? Do they speak “palestinian”? Is their religion “palestinian”?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Chomsky on how Hamas policies are more conducive to peace than the U.S.'s or Israel's*
> 
> **




Seriously?  So a temporary promise not to use violence while demanding the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel and proposing to resurrect violence at any time it feels the need is PREFERABLE to a permanent pact of peaceful mutual recognition and co-operation?  Get bent.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.



No worries, my friend.  I'm happy you find my comments worthy of a serious response.



> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people.


Sure.  Maybe.  But their peoplehood is predicated on opposition to a Jewish State.  Now, that might be a perfectly fine criterion for peoplehood -- to make oneself distinct from another cultural group solely for the purpose of making oneself distinct.  BUT I would argue that the intent of this distinction is the opposition to Jewish self-determination.  



> It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.


Which seems to suggest that self-identity is the sole criterion.



> They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.


Sure.  But I would argue that the ties to a land are distinctly different than the desire for sovereignty as a people.  And that they are not necessarily mutually compatible.  Thus the Arab Palestinians MAY have to choose between the desire to be attached to that particular piece of land under Jewish sovereignty OR find a new piece of land to embrace their distinctive Palestinian sovereignty.  The Jewish people certainly had to embrace that choice -- giving up any ties to land and country and nationality and wealth and possessions in order to become part of the Israeli sovereignty.  The Jewish people who settle in land which MAY become part of Palestine are also make that, very distinct, choice. 



> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?


I said absolutely nothing about them "going" anywhere.  Why would you assume that of me?  What I mean is that we can't keep carving off chunks of the Jewish State to satisfy Arabs who don't want there to BE a Jewish State.  Sooner or later we have to say, "enough".  This part is the Jewish State.  That part is the Arab Palestinian State.  If you want to hold on to your private piece of land, you have to live under Jewish sovereignty.  If you want to live under Arab sovereignty, you have to go to a place of Arab sovereignty.  

And THIS leads to the very uncomfortable, but entirely real end game.  The Jewish State will not be comfortably and safely the Jewish State until it is relatively ethnically homogeneous.  I can't see any way around it.  Its a yucky thing to face.  But its the price of peace.  



> It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.


Um.  Its the same except for all the differences.  I'm just going to leave this alone.  Because I think its a terrible comparison.  Namely, the Arab Palestinians do have a name, and citizenship and international recognition and an identity and are not actually being systematically murdered and removed (despite the bullshit TP will try to sell you).  



> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?


Yes.  I believe that is EXACTLY what they are saying.  The Jewish people are not eligible for self-determination.  Everyone on TP with exceptions of Humanity and yourself, essentially disregards the Israeli (Jewish) right to self-determination.  They all have slightly different takes on the "why".  For some, the Jewish people are "just a religion".  For others the Jewish people of today are synthetic, and not real Jews.  For some the Jewish people are European or some other nationality and therefore can't be Jewish.  Others say its because Jews are inherently evil.  Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.


----------



## Coyote

Ok...now I'm in a position to better answer (ie type  ) - so I'll try to answer the various posts.



Shusha said:


> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLcriteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?



I think there are multiple questions:
When does a people become a people?
When does a people cease to be a people?
When does a people cease to belong to a broader cultural group (a people)?

No clear answers.

We have the European Union and the common label of "Europeans" and European values.
Then we have the Germans, British, French, Spanish etc.
Then we have the Catalonians, Basquess, Scots, Welsh, Shetland Islanders, Cornish....
The Basques straddle both France and Spain.
You have the Kurds but - despite being Kurds there are huge cultural differences between Iranian Kurds, Turkish Kurds and Iraqi Kurds.
You have the so-called Arabs...but are Moroccan Arabs the same as Saudi Arabs?  What are the Lebonese?

Self identification is not the only criteria, but it's a one.  I think other criteria would be a shared heritage, common values and culture and traditions.  I don't think they need to be unique from all others to be valid.




> Where does it end? Any country can make that argument.  This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?


 

Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.  The Palestinians were not invented - no more than the Jews.  Every people has to start somewhere.  Just because they coalesced as a distinct group later doesn't invalidate them.

And the issue of sovereign rights does not necessarily follow.  There are many people's recognized as people's, without individual sovereignty and there are many sovereign countries comprised of multiple peoples.



> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?



Do they have roots there?  Have they or their families lived there?  What ties do they have to those regions that would justify such a claim?



> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.



I know...you are totally cool Shusha


----------



## thetor

Coyote said:


> Ok...now I'm in a position to better answer (ie type  ) - so I'll try to answer the various posts.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLcriteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are multiple questions:
> When does a people become a people?
> When does a people cease to be a people?
> When does a people cease to belong to a broader cultural group (a people)?
> 
> No clear answers.
> 
> We have the European Union and the common label of "Europeans" and European values.
> Then we have the Germans, British, French, Spanish etc.
> Then we have the Catalonians, Basquess, Scots, Welsh, Shetland Islanders, Cornish....
> The Basques straddle both France and Spain.
> You have the Kurds but - despite being Kurds there are huge cultural differences between Iranian Kurds, Turkish Kurds and Iraqi Kurds.
> You have the so-called Arabs...but are Moroccan Arabs the same as Saudi Arabs?  What are the Lebonese?
> 
> Self identification is not the only criteria, but it's a one.  I think other criteria would be a shared heritage, common values and culture and traditions.  I don't think they need to be unique from all others to be valid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? Any country can make that argument.  This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.  The Palestinians were not invented - no more than the Jews.  Every people has to start somewhere.  Just because they coalesced as a distinct group later doesn't invalidate them.
> 
> And the issue of sovereign rights does not necessarily follow.  There are many people's recognized as people's, without individual sovereignty and there are many sovereign countries comprised of multiple peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do they have roots there?  Have they or their families lived there?  What ties do they have to those regions that would justify such a claim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know...you are totally cool Shusha
Click to expand...

You may think so Coyote,I and others do not


----------



## thetor

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...

Both


----------



## thetor

aris2chat said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
Click to expand...

Israel included


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Ok...now I'm in a position to better answer (ie type  ) - so I'll try to answer the various posts.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLcriteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are multiple questions:
> When does a people become a people?
> When does a people cease to be a people?
> When does a people cease to belong to a broader cultural group (a people)?
> 
> No clear answers.
> 
> We have the European Union and the common label of "Europeans" and European values.
> Then we have the Germans, British, French, Spanish etc.
> Then we have the Catalonians, Basquess, Scots, Welsh, Shetland Islanders, Cornish....
> The Basques straddle both France and Spain.
> You have the Kurds but - despite being Kurds there are huge cultural differences between Iranian Kurds, Turkish Kurds and Iraqi Kurds.
> You have the so-called Arabs...but are Moroccan Arabs the same as Saudi Arabs?  What are the Lebonese?
> 
> Self identification is not the only criteria, but it's a one.  I think other criteria would be a shared heritage, common values and culture and traditions.  I don't think they need to be unique from all others to be valid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? Any country can make that argument.  This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.  The Palestinians were not invented - no more than the Jews.  Every people has to start somewhere.  Just because they coalesced as a distinct group later doesn't invalidate them.
> 
> And the issue of sovereign rights does not necessarily follow.  There are many people's recognized as people's, without individual sovereignty and there are many sovereign countries comprised of multiple peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do they have roots there?  Have they or their families lived there?  What ties do they have to those regions that would justify such a claim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know...you are totally cool Shusha
Click to expand...


Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.

But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
Click to expand...


I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.

Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.

Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.

You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
Click to expand...


There’s no palestinian ppl. It’s a hoax. They’re simply Arab ppl


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
Click to expand...



Must be difficult for “palestinians” who are Arabs to write and say “palestinian” in Arabic: No p


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
Click to expand...


A couple of things.  Joel's position is not unique, there are other members here who have presented similar points of view.  Israeli's and Jews are as diverse as any other group imo.

On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.  Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.

The real conflict arose with the mandate, the rise of pan-Arab and of Jewish nationalism, and - yes - the unwillingness of the Arabs to accept a Jewish state on "Muslim land".  But all that - and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There’s no palestinian ppl. It’s a hoax. They’re simply Arab ppl
Click to expand...


Joel honey...you are trolling.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There’s no palestinian ppl. It’s a hoax. They’re simply Arab ppl
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Joel honey...you are trolling.
Click to expand...


Translation: You’re uninformed and unable to debate me


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A couple of things.  Joel's position is not unique, there are other members here who have presented similar points of view.  Israeli's and Jews are as diverse as any other group imo.
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.  Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> The real conflict arose with the mandate, the rise of pan-Arab and of Jewish nationalism, and - yes - the unwillingness of the Arabs to accept a Jewish state on "Muslim land".  But all that - and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
Click to expand...


Uninformed, as usual. Muslims perpetrated the first holocaust of Jews. Not a good start


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries, my friend.  I'm happy you find my comments worthy of a serious response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  Maybe. * But their peoplehood is predicated on opposition to a Jewish State.*  Now, that might be a perfectly fine criterion for peoplehood -- to make oneself distinct from another cultural group solely for the purpose of making oneself distinct.  BUT I would argue that the intent of this distinction is the opposition to Jewish self-determination.
Click to expand...


I can agree that is where it STARTED...but now, it has gone beyond that.  In addition...boiling it down to that ignores the realities of their dispossion and loss of belonging.



> It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.
> 
> 
> 
> Which seems to suggest that self-identity is the sole criterion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  But I would argue that the ties to a land are distinctly different than the desire for sovereignty as a people.  And that they are not necessarily mutually compatible.  Thus the Arab Palestinians MAY have to choose between the desire to be attached to that particular piece of land under Jewish sovereignty OR find a new piece of land to embrace their distinctive Palestinian sovereignty.  The Jewish people certainly had to embrace that choice -- giving up any ties to land and country and nationality and wealth and possessions in order to become part of the Israeli sovereignty.  The Jewish people who settle in land which MAY become part of Palestine are also make that, very distinct, choice.
Click to expand...


Interesting point and in the long view - that which accepts the idea of a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state - I totally agree.



> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?
> 
> 
> 
> I said absolutely nothing about them "going" anywhere.  Why would you assume that of me?  What I mean is that we can't keep carving off chunks of the Jewish State to satisfy Arabs who don't want there to BE a Jewish State.  Sooner or later we have to say, "enough".  This part is the Jewish State.  That part is the Arab Palestinian State.  If you want to hold on to your private piece of land, you have to live under Jewish sovereignty.  If you want to live under Arab sovereignty, you have to go to a place of Arab sovereignty.
Click to expand...


And that is reasonable - I just am not so sure it's what some of your fellow Team Israel'ers think.



> And THIS leads to the very uncomfortable, but entirely real end game.  The Jewish State will not be comfortably and safely the Jewish State until it is relatively ethnically homogeneous.  I can't see any way around it.  Its a yucky thing to face.  But its the price of peace.



Woah.  What exactly are you suggesting?  If it involves any forced transfers of people...that's a no-go for me.



> It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Its the same except for all the differences.  I'm just going to leave this alone.  Because I think its a terrible comparison.  *Namely, the Arab Palestinians do have a name, *and citizenship and international recognition and an identity and are not actually being systematically murdered and removed (despite the bullshit TP will try to sell you).
Click to expand...


No it isn't a terrible comparison - not when taken only in the sense of erasing an identity.  I'm not talking about the "real world" per se but about people here on this forum and the ceaseless attempt to erase the Palestinian identity by labeling them just Arabs, Palestinians were invented, they are a fake people etc etc. Do you deny that occurs?  Btw - I specifically noted that unlike Myanmar there is no systemic genocide going on.  But I read how Myanmar denied the Rohinga even an identity and that is exactly what folks here on this forum attempt to do with the Palestinians.



> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  I believe that is EXACTLY what they are saying.  The Jewish people are not eligible for self-determination.  Everyone on TP with exceptions of Humanity and yourself, essentially disregards the Israeli (Jewish) right to self-determination.  They all have slightly different takes on the "why".  For some, the Jewish people are "just a religion".  For others the Jewish people of today are synthetic, and not real Jews.  For some the Jewish people are European or some other nationality and therefore can't be Jewish.  Others say its because Jews are inherently evil.  Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I totally agree.  Yes - there are some notable people who say Jews have no rights to self determination period - but many define it in terms of Palestine only, and regards to the rights of Palestinians.  I don't think I've heard anyone express the thought that they have no rights anywhere in the world.  Realistically - I do think some of those arguments against Jewish rights and in support of Palestinian rights are transparent efforts to negate the recognition of any rights for Jews at ....but...I've seen some here saying the same for Palestinians...send them to Jordan.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.



Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries, my friend.  I'm happy you find my comments worthy of a serious response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  Maybe. * But their peoplehood is predicated on opposition to a Jewish State.*  Now, that might be a perfectly fine criterion for peoplehood -- to make oneself distinct from another cultural group solely for the purpose of making oneself distinct.  BUT I would argue that the intent of this distinction is the opposition to Jewish self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can agree that is where it STARTED...but now, it has gone beyond that.  In addition...boiling it down to that ignores the realities of their dispossion and loss of belonging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which seems to suggest that self-identity is the sole criterion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  But I would argue that the ties to a land are distinctly different than the desire for sovereignty as a people.  And that they are not necessarily mutually compatible.  Thus the Arab Palestinians MAY have to choose between the desire to be attached to that particular piece of land under Jewish sovereignty OR find a new piece of land to embrace their distinctive Palestinian sovereignty.  The Jewish people certainly had to embrace that choice -- giving up any ties to land and country and nationality and wealth and possessions in order to become part of the Israeli sovereignty.  The Jewish people who settle in land which MAY become part of Palestine are also make that, very distinct, choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting point and in the long view - that which accepts the idea of a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state - I totally agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said absolutely nothing about them "going" anywhere.  Why would you assume that of me?  What I mean is that we can't keep carving off chunks of the Jewish State to satisfy Arabs who don't want there to BE a Jewish State.  Sooner or later we have to say, "enough".  This part is the Jewish State.  That part is the Arab Palestinian State.  If you want to hold on to your private piece of land, you have to live under Jewish sovereignty.  If you want to live under Arab sovereignty, you have to go to a place of Arab sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is reasonable - I just am not so sure it's what some of your fellow Team Israel'ers think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And THIS leads to the very uncomfortable, but entirely real end game.  The Jewish State will not be comfortably and safely the Jewish State until it is relatively ethnically homogeneous.  I can't see any way around it.  Its a yucky thing to face.  But its the price of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Woah.  What exactly are you suggesting?  If it involves any forced transfers of people...that's a no-go for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um.  Its the same except for all the differences.  I'm just going to leave this alone.  Because I think its a terrible comparison.  *Namely, the Arab Palestinians do have a name, *and citizenship and international recognition and an identity and are not actually being systematically murdered and removed (despite the bullshit TP will try to sell you).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't a terrible comparison - not when taken only in the sense of erasing an identity.  I'm not talking about the "real world" per se but about people here on this forum and the ceaseless attempt to erase the Palestinian identity by labeling them just Arabs, Palestinians were invented, they are a fake people etc etc. Do you deny that occurs?  Btw - I specifically noted that unlike Myanmar there is no systemic genocide going on.  But I read how Myanmar denied the Rohinga even an identity and that is exactly what folks here on this forum attempt to do with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I believe that is EXACTLY what they are saying.  The Jewish people are not eligible for self-determination.  Everyone on TP with exceptions of Humanity and yourself, essentially disregards the Israeli (Jewish) right to self-determination.  They all have slightly different takes on the "why".  For some, the Jewish people are "just a religion".  For others the Jewish people of today are synthetic, and not real Jews.  For some the Jewish people are European or some other nationality and therefore can't be Jewish.  Others say its because Jews are inherently evil.  Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I totally agree.  Yes - there are some notable people who say Jews have no rights to self determination period - but many define it in terms of Palestine only, and regards to the rights of Palestinians.  I don't think I've heard anyone express the thought that they have no rights anywhere in the world.  Realistically - I do think some of those arguments against Jewish rights and in support of Palestinian rights are transparent efforts to negate the recognition of any rights for Jews at ....but...I've seen some here saying the same for Palestinians...send them to Jordan.
Click to expand...


Uninformed.

Jews lived in palestine for thousands of years. In fact, palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel, about 2000 years ago. Arabs did not populate the land and Muslims didn’t exist


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
Click to expand...


Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries, my friend.  I'm happy you find my comments worthy of a serious response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  Maybe. * But their peoplehood is predicated on opposition to a Jewish State.*  Now, that might be a perfectly fine criterion for peoplehood -- to make oneself distinct from another cultural group solely for the purpose of making oneself distinct.  BUT I would argue that the intent of this distinction is the opposition to Jewish self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can agree that is where it STARTED...but now, it has gone beyond that.  In addition...boiling it down to that ignores the realities of their dispossion and loss of belonging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which seems to suggest that self-identity is the sole criterion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  But I would argue that the ties to a land are distinctly different than the desire for sovereignty as a people.  And that they are not necessarily mutually compatible.  Thus the Arab Palestinians MAY have to choose between the desire to be attached to that particular piece of land under Jewish sovereignty OR find a new piece of land to embrace their distinctive Palestinian sovereignty.  The Jewish people certainly had to embrace that choice -- giving up any ties to land and country and nationality and wealth and possessions in order to become part of the Israeli sovereignty.  The Jewish people who settle in land which MAY become part of Palestine are also make that, very distinct, choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting point and in the long view - that which accepts the idea of a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state - I totally agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said absolutely nothing about them "going" anywhere.  Why would you assume that of me?  What I mean is that we can't keep carving off chunks of the Jewish State to satisfy Arabs who don't want there to BE a Jewish State.  Sooner or later we have to say, "enough".  This part is the Jewish State.  That part is the Arab Palestinian State.  If you want to hold on to your private piece of land, you have to live under Jewish sovereignty.  If you want to live under Arab sovereignty, you have to go to a place of Arab sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is reasonable - I just am not so sure it's what some of your fellow Team Israel'ers think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And THIS leads to the very uncomfortable, but entirely real end game.  The Jewish State will not be comfortably and safely the Jewish State until it is relatively ethnically homogeneous.  I can't see any way around it.  Its a yucky thing to face.  But its the price of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Woah.  What exactly are you suggesting?  If it involves any forced transfers of people...that's a no-go for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um.  Its the same except for all the differences.  I'm just going to leave this alone.  Because I think its a terrible comparison.  *Namely, the Arab Palestinians do have a name, *and citizenship and international recognition and an identity and are not actually being systematically murdered and removed (despite the bullshit TP will try to sell you).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't a terrible comparison - not when taken only in the sense of erasing an identity.  I'm not talking about the "real world" per se but about people here on this forum and the ceaseless attempt to erase the Palestinian identity by labeling them just Arabs, Palestinians were invented, they are a fake people etc etc. Do you deny that occurs?  Btw - I specifically noted that unlike Myanmar there is no systemic genocide going on.  But I read how Myanmar denied the Rohinga even an identity and that is exactly what folks here on this forum attempt to do with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I believe that is EXACTLY what they are saying.  The Jewish people are not eligible for self-determination.  Everyone on TP with exceptions of Humanity and yourself, essentially disregards the Israeli (Jewish) right to self-determination.  They all have slightly different takes on the "why".  For some, the Jewish people are "just a religion".  For others the Jewish people of today are synthetic, and not real Jews.  For some the Jewish people are European or some other nationality and therefore can't be Jewish.  Others say its because Jews are inherently evil.  Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I totally agree.  Yes - there are some notable people who say Jews have no rights to self determination period - but many define it in terms of Palestine only, and regards to the rights of Palestinians.  I don't think I've heard anyone express the thought that they have no rights anywhere in the world.  Realistically - I do think some of those arguments against Jewish rights and in support of Palestinian rights are transparent efforts to negate the recognition of any rights for Jews at ....but...I've seen some here saying the same for Palestinians...send them to Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uninformed.
> 
> Only Jews lived in palestine for thousands of years. In fact, palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel, about 2000 years ago. Arabs did not populate the land and Muslims didn’t exist
Click to expand...

 You've only said that about 324 times.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
Click to expand...


People are classified by language. Is there a palestinian language?


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People are classified by language. Is there a palestinian language?
Click to expand...


That is one of many classifications.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries, my friend.  I'm happy you find my comments worthy of a serious response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  Maybe. * But their peoplehood is predicated on opposition to a Jewish State.*  Now, that might be a perfectly fine criterion for peoplehood -- to make oneself distinct from another cultural group solely for the purpose of making oneself distinct.  BUT I would argue that the intent of this distinction is the opposition to Jewish self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can agree that is where it STARTED...but now, it has gone beyond that.  In addition...boiling it down to that ignores the realities of their dispossion and loss of belonging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which seems to suggest that self-identity is the sole criterion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  But I would argue that the ties to a land are distinctly different than the desire for sovereignty as a people.  And that they are not necessarily mutually compatible.  Thus the Arab Palestinians MAY have to choose between the desire to be attached to that particular piece of land under Jewish sovereignty OR find a new piece of land to embrace their distinctive Palestinian sovereignty.  The Jewish people certainly had to embrace that choice -- giving up any ties to land and country and nationality and wealth and possessions in order to become part of the Israeli sovereignty.  The Jewish people who settle in land which MAY become part of Palestine are also make that, very distinct, choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting point and in the long view - that which accepts the idea of a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state - I totally agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said absolutely nothing about them "going" anywhere.  Why would you assume that of me?  What I mean is that we can't keep carving off chunks of the Jewish State to satisfy Arabs who don't want there to BE a Jewish State.  Sooner or later we have to say, "enough".  This part is the Jewish State.  That part is the Arab Palestinian State.  If you want to hold on to your private piece of land, you have to live under Jewish sovereignty.  If you want to live under Arab sovereignty, you have to go to a place of Arab sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is reasonable - I just am not so sure it's what some of your fellow Team Israel'ers think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And THIS leads to the very uncomfortable, but entirely real end game.  The Jewish State will not be comfortably and safely the Jewish State until it is relatively ethnically homogeneous.  I can't see any way around it.  Its a yucky thing to face.  But its the price of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Woah.  What exactly are you suggesting?  If it involves any forced transfers of people...that's a no-go for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um.  Its the same except for all the differences.  I'm just going to leave this alone.  Because I think its a terrible comparison.  *Namely, the Arab Palestinians do have a name, *and citizenship and international recognition and an identity and are not actually being systematically murdered and removed (despite the bullshit TP will try to sell you).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't a terrible comparison - not when taken only in the sense of erasing an identity.  I'm not talking about the "real world" per se but about people here on this forum and the ceaseless attempt to erase the Palestinian identity by labeling them just Arabs, Palestinians were invented, they are a fake people etc etc. Do you deny that occurs?  Btw - I specifically noted that unlike Myanmar there is no systemic genocide going on.  But I read how Myanmar denied the Rohinga even an identity and that is exactly what folks here on this forum attempt to do with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I believe that is EXACTLY what they are saying.  The Jewish people are not eligible for self-determination.  Everyone on TP with exceptions of Humanity and yourself, essentially disregards the Israeli (Jewish) right to self-determination.  They all have slightly different takes on the "why".  For some, the Jewish people are "just a religion".  For others the Jewish people of today are synthetic, and not real Jews.  For some the Jewish people are European or some other nationality and therefore can't be Jewish.  Others say its because Jews are inherently evil.  Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I totally agree.  Yes - there are some notable people who say Jews have no rights to self determination period - but many define it in terms of Palestine only, and regards to the rights of Palestinians.  I don't think I've heard anyone express the thought that they have no rights anywhere in the world.  Realistically - I do think some of those arguments against Jewish rights and in support of Palestinian rights are transparent efforts to negate the recognition of any rights for Jews at ....but...I've seen some here saying the same for Palestinians...send them to Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uninformed.
> 
> Only Jews lived in palestine for thousands of years. In fact, palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel, about 2000 years ago. Arabs did not populate the land and Muslims didn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've only said that about 324 times.
Click to expand...



Jews originally were called palestinians, by the British in the 20th century. Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s

The word palestinian does not appear in Middle East history before the 20th century. But, you think palestinians have a history of thousands of years?


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries, my friend.  I'm happy you find my comments worthy of a serious response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  Maybe. * But their peoplehood is predicated on opposition to a Jewish State.*  Now, that might be a perfectly fine criterion for peoplehood -- to make oneself distinct from another cultural group solely for the purpose of making oneself distinct.  BUT I would argue that the intent of this distinction is the opposition to Jewish self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can agree that is where it STARTED...but now, it has gone beyond that.  In addition...boiling it down to that ignores the realities of their dispossion and loss of belonging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which seems to suggest that self-identity is the sole criterion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  But I would argue that the ties to a land are distinctly different than the desire for sovereignty as a people.  And that they are not necessarily mutually compatible.  Thus the Arab Palestinians MAY have to choose between the desire to be attached to that particular piece of land under Jewish sovereignty OR find a new piece of land to embrace their distinctive Palestinian sovereignty.  The Jewish people certainly had to embrace that choice -- giving up any ties to land and country and nationality and wealth and possessions in order to become part of the Israeli sovereignty.  The Jewish people who settle in land which MAY become part of Palestine are also make that, very distinct, choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting point and in the long view - that which accepts the idea of a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state - I totally agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said absolutely nothing about them "going" anywhere.  Why would you assume that of me?  What I mean is that we can't keep carving off chunks of the Jewish State to satisfy Arabs who don't want there to BE a Jewish State.  Sooner or later we have to say, "enough".  This part is the Jewish State.  That part is the Arab Palestinian State.  If you want to hold on to your private piece of land, you have to live under Jewish sovereignty.  If you want to live under Arab sovereignty, you have to go to a place of Arab sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is reasonable - I just am not so sure it's what some of your fellow Team Israel'ers think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And THIS leads to the very uncomfortable, but entirely real end game.  The Jewish State will not be comfortably and safely the Jewish State until it is relatively ethnically homogeneous.  I can't see any way around it.  Its a yucky thing to face.  But its the price of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Woah.  What exactly are you suggesting?  If it involves any forced transfers of people...that's a no-go for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um.  Its the same except for all the differences.  I'm just going to leave this alone.  Because I think its a terrible comparison.  *Namely, the Arab Palestinians do have a name, *and citizenship and international recognition and an identity and are not actually being systematically murdered and removed (despite the bullshit TP will try to sell you).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't a terrible comparison - not when taken only in the sense of erasing an identity.  I'm not talking about the "real world" per se but about people here on this forum and the ceaseless attempt to erase the Palestinian identity by labeling them just Arabs, Palestinians were invented, they are a fake people etc etc. Do you deny that occurs?  Btw - I specifically noted that unlike Myanmar there is no systemic genocide going on.  But I read how Myanmar denied the Rohinga even an identity and that is exactly what folks here on this forum attempt to do with the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I believe that is EXACTLY what they are saying.  The Jewish people are not eligible for self-determination.  Everyone on TP with exceptions of Humanity and yourself, essentially disregards the Israeli (Jewish) right to self-determination.  They all have slightly different takes on the "why".  For some, the Jewish people are "just a religion".  For others the Jewish people of today are synthetic, and not real Jews.  For some the Jewish people are European or some other nationality and therefore can't be Jewish.  Others say its because Jews are inherently evil.  Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I totally agree.  Yes - there are some notable people who say Jews have no rights to self determination period - but many define it in terms of Palestine only, and regards to the rights of Palestinians.  I don't think I've heard anyone express the thought that they have no rights anywhere in the world.  Realistically - I do think some of those arguments against Jewish rights and in support of Palestinian rights are transparent efforts to negate the recognition of any rights for Jews at ....but...I've seen some here saying the same for Palestinians...send them to Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uninformed.
> 
> Only Jews lived in palestine for thousands of years. In fact, palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel, about 2000 years ago. Arabs did not populate the land and Muslims didn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've only said that about 324 times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jews originally were called palestinians, by the British in the 20th century. Arabs began identifying as palestinians in the 1960s
> 
> The word palestinian does not appear in Middle East history before the 20th century. But, you think palestinians have a history of thousands of years?
Click to expand...


325


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People are classified by language. Is there a palestinian language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is one of many classifications.
Click to expand...


Anthropologists generally classify people by language Do people speak palestinian? Can you even show me a history of palestinians?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Woah.  What exactly are you suggesting?  If it involves any forced transfers of people...that's a no-go for me.



Not suggesting anything -- yet.  Just pointing out that we (humanity) don't yet seem capable of creating stable nation states consisting of disparate ethnic groups.  The solution to that seems, at this point, to create stable nation states of homogeneous ethnic groups, at least for now.  In that regard, in terms of size of territory, Israel made a mistake in not ethnically cleansing the territory the way all the ME Arab states did.  Realistically, as horrible as it is, if she had done so, all the Palestinians would be living in Jordan and probably content with it.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.


I call bullshit.  Or, because I like you and you usually have good arguments, I respectfully disagree.  Its kinda like saying that women and men get along great in the US.  I mean, only three women a day get killed by their intimate partners and only 1 in 4 women are raped before they graduate college.  Compared to Arab ME countries where we aren't allowed to drive, or show our ankles, or go to school or have a sexuality, or go to the grocery store without a male escort. 


 Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.



> and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.


Again, calling bullshit, but nicely.  Anti-semitism of the Arab/Muslim people CHANGED with the importation of Christian European ideas in the early 1900s but it existed consistently throughout thousands of years of history.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.



"Benign" conversion can only happen in a place of equality.  There was never such a thing, until VERY recently, and then only in certain places, the ME not being one of them, except for Israel.  So, no, I'm not buying what you are selling.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Benign" conversion can only happen in a place of equality.  There was never such a thing, until VERY recently, and then only in certain places, the ME not being one of them, except for Israel.  So, no, I'm not buying what you are selling.
Click to expand...


Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.

Spread of Islam - Wikipedia


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
Click to expand...


Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.  

My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.  

It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
Click to expand...


But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?

I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Benign" conversion can only happen in a place of equality.  There was never such a thing, until VERY recently, and then only in certain places, the ME not being one of them, except for Israel.  So, no, I'm not buying what you are selling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.
> 
> Spread of Islam - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Islam spread by forced conversion. Now you know


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
Click to expand...


Show me “palestinian” history before the 20th century.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
Click to expand...


"Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."

Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.

What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.

They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.

But that is not the issue.

The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.

It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.

The conflict is as basic as that.

Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.

You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.

Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.

Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.

All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.  
The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.

I will say it again.
Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.

Someday, who knows


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullshit.  Or, because I like you and you usually have good arguments, I respectfully disagree.  Its kinda like saying that women and men get along great in the US.  I mean, only three women a day get killed by their intimate partners and only 1 in 4 women are raped before they graduate college.  Compared to Arab ME countries where we aren't allowed to drive, or show our ankles, or go to school or have a sexuality, or go to the grocery store without a male escort.
Click to expand...


Historically - religious minorities did not fare well in countries with a ruling religious majority.  Values were very different then and tolerance was not considered a virtue.  So - my references were HISTORICALLY.  Jews and Muslims in Christian majority countries were a minority.  Jews and Christians in Muslim majority countries were a minority.  Minorities did not get treated with equality.  That doesn't make it "anti-semitism" though and it wasn't directed at one religion but at those who were minorities.  Despite that - there are historic periods where Jews flourished in Islamic countries.  No, they weren't "equal" but equality was not a value in those times.



> Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
Click to expand...




> Again, calling bullshit, but nicely.  Anti-semitism of the Arab/Muslim people CHANGED with the importation of Christian European ideas in the early 1900s but it existed consistently throughout thousands of years of history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since “palestinians” identify with Greek Philistines, let them go to Greece LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A couple of things.  Joel's position is not unique, there are other members here who have presented similar points of view.  Israeli's and Jews are as diverse as any other group imo.
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.  Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> The real conflict arose with the mandate, the rise of pan-Arab and of Jewish nationalism, and - yes - the unwillingness of the Arabs to accept a Jewish state on "Muslim land".  But all that - and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
Click to expand...


You have read the romanticized version of the lives Jews had under Islamic control.  It goes against many books and records and reports of how Jews suffered frequently under one Muslim government or another.

The conflict - arose from Jews daring to want sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland.  Islam does not allow that.  Especially for Jews.  And Christians as well.  Not as long as those lands have been conquered at any time by Islam.

You have no idea how "virulent" the anti Jewish feelings and actions were during those 1300 years.

As I have said above, you seem to have read some very romanticized book of what life was like for Jews under Islamic control on their very own land or anywhere else.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.



Oh.  My.  

Okay.  Phew.  Um.  

Benign conversion can only happen when there is political, ethnic, racial and gender equality.  Benign conversion can only happen when individuals are free to choose, without oppression or "advantages". I would argue that this rarely, if ever, happened historically where religion was almost always paired with politics and conquest and the competition between tribes or nations or whatever you want to call them.  

Further, I think you are "barbarian blaming" when you say that monotheistic religious offer the poor and the downtrodden more than the polytheistic faiths of any particular region.  I think that is a very unfair and incorrect view of the pagan religions as well as an overly positive perception of the monotheistic religions.  

And when a ruler or king converts, and everyone follows, that is not at all necessarily a benign conversion.  

And the spread of Christianity was a series of brutal waves of persecution, "convert or die", J-man or hell.  Still is in many parts of the world.  As is Islam.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Benign" conversion can only happen in a place of equality.  There was never such a thing, until VERY recently, and then only in certain places, the ME not being one of them, except for Israel.  So, no, I'm not buying what you are selling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.
> 
> Spread of Islam - Wikipedia
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullshit.  Or, because I like you and you usually have good arguments, I respectfully disagree.  Its kinda like saying that women and men get along great in the US.  I mean, only three women a day get killed by their intimate partners and only 1 in 4 women are raped before they graduate college.  Compared to Arab ME countries where we aren't allowed to drive, or show our ankles, or go to school or have a sexuality, or go to the grocery store without a male escort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historically - religious minorities did not fare well in countries with a ruling religious majority.  Values were very different then and tolerance was not considered a virtue.  So - my references were HISTORICALLY.  Jews and Muslims in Christian majority countries were a minority.  Jews and Christians in Muslim majority countries were a minority.  Minorities did not get treated with equality.  That doesn't make it "anti-semitism" though and it wasn't directed at one religion but at those who were minorities.  Despite that - there are historic periods where Jews flourished in Islamic countries.  No, they weren't "equal" but equality was not a value in those times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, calling bullshit, but nicely.  Anti-semitism of the Arab/Muslim people CHANGED with the importation of Christian European ideas in the early 1900s but it existed consistently throughout thousands of years of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Islam is deeply antiSemitic. An Islamic edict exhorts their genocide.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
Click to expand...


Where has this been debunked?


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People are classified by language. Is there a palestinian language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is one of many classifications.
Click to expand...


Just say you want a 23rd Arab state It’s easier than going through the farce of inventing a palestinian ppl but with no language, religion, place of origin or history of their own


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...



Be clear here.  Either people who immigrate to a land have some sort of claim "extending back X number of years" or they don't.  You gotta pick.  You can't have it both ways. 

Either the Irish have developed an attachment to American soil and thus have rights to sovereignty on it.  Or the Irish, no matter how long they have lived here, will never have rights to sovereignty here. 

Choose.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where has this been debunked?
Click to expand...


Arabs and Jews are not related. Hebrew is related to Canaanite not Arabic


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.  My.
> 
> Okay.  Phew.  Um.
> 
> Benign conversion can only happen when there is political, ethnic, racial and gender equality.  Benign conversion can only happen when individuals are free to choose, without oppression or "advantages". I would argue that this rarely, if ever, happened historically where religion was almost always paired with politics and conquest and the competition between tribes or nations or whatever you want to call them.
> 
> Further, I think you are "barbarian blaming" when you say that monotheistic religious offer the poor and the downtrodden more than the polytheistic faiths of any particular region.  I think that is a very unfair and incorrect view of the pagan religions as well as an overly positive perception of the monotheistic religions.
Click to expand...


I'm not particularly enamored with monotheistic religions but, when I was reading the history of early Islam and Christianity in particular - they do offer certain things that would attract followers.  A way of escaping restrictive class and cast systems, dignity for the poor, mandated charity to widows, orphans and disadvantaged and - heaven.  Life sucks - you can have eternity in heaven if you follow the proper procedure. 

It may be we have differing definitions of "benign" - I'm using it to mean with out violent coercion.  Conversion occurred both benignly and forceably in these religions.



> And when a ruler or king converts, and everyone follows, that is not at all necessarily a benign conversion.
> 
> *And the spread of Christianity was a series of brutal waves of persecution, "convert or die", J-man or hell.  Still is in many parts of the world.  As is Islam*.



True but not in all cases.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be clear here.  Either people who immigrate to a land have some sort of claim "extending back X number of years" or they don't.  You gotta pick.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Either the Irish have developed an attachment to American soil and thus have rights to sovereignty on it.  Or the Irish, no matter how long they have lived here, will never have rights to sovereignty here.
> 
> Choose.
Click to expand...


Well the all Palestinians didn't immigrate.  Their ancestors have been there as long as they know.  Excluding those who were known to have immigrated.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.  My.
> 
> Okay.  Phew.  Um.
> 
> Benign conversion can only happen when there is political, ethnic, racial and gender equality.  Benign conversion can only happen when individuals are free to choose, without oppression or "advantages". I would argue that this rarely, if ever, happened historically where religion was almost always paired with politics and conquest and the competition between tribes or nations or whatever you want to call them.
> 
> Further, I think you are "barbarian blaming" when you say that monotheistic religious offer the poor and the downtrodden more than the polytheistic faiths of any particular region.  I think that is a very unfair and incorrect view of the pagan religions as well as an overly positive perception of the monotheistic religions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not particularly enamored with monotheistic religions but, when I was reading the history of early Islam and Christianity in particular - they do offer certain things that would attract followers.  A way of escaping restrictive class and cast systems, dignity for the poor, mandated charity to widows, orphans and disadvantaged and - heaven.  Life sucks - you can have eternity in heaven if you follow the proper procedure.
> 
> It may be we have differing definitions of "benign" - I'm using it to mean with out violent coercion.  Conversion occurred both benignly and forceably in these religions.
> 
> 
> And when a ruler or king converts, and everyone follows, that is not at all necessarily a benign conversion.
> 
> And the spread of Christianity was a series of brutal waves of persecution, "convert or die", J-man or hell.  Still is in many parts of the world.  As is Islam.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Islam started merely as Judaism and Christianity adapted for Arabs. Everyone was forced to convert or were killed or expelled


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> No, they weren't "equal" but equality was not a value in those times.



But you are bringing it up NOW as though it has relevance NOW and should be part of the discussion.  You claimed that "Jews and Muslims got along historically".  Now you admit that that historic "getting along" was based on a system of INEQUALITY.  So why are you bringing up an historical inequality as a plus for your arguments.  It seems to me just the opposite.  It seems to me to be saying that Jews and Muslims would CONTINUE to get along -- if only Jews would go back to accepting the inequality and oppression of history.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be clear here.  Either people who immigrate to a land have some sort of claim "extending back X number of years" or they don't.  You gotta pick.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Either the Irish have developed an attachment to American soil and thus have rights to sovereignty on it.  Or the Irish, no matter how long they have lived here, will never have rights to sovereignty here.
> 
> Choose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the all Palestinians didn't immigrate.  Their ancestors have been there as long as they know.  Excluding those who were known to have immigrated.
Click to expand...


Arabs originate from Arabia They’re descendants of immigrants


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually...benign conversion is quite frequent historically.  For example - people simply decide that the other faith has more to offer than the original one.  In the case of Islam, it had more to offer the poor and down trodden than the polytheistic faiths in the region.  In other cases - the ruler or king converts and as a result his subjects do.  It's no different than the way Christianity spread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.  My.
> 
> Okay.  Phew.  Um.
> 
> Benign conversion can only happen when there is political, ethnic, racial and gender equality.  Benign conversion can only happen when individuals are free to choose, without oppression or "advantages". I would argue that this rarely, if ever, happened historically where religion was almost always paired with politics and conquest and the competition between tribes or nations or whatever you want to call them.
> 
> Further, I think you are "barbarian blaming" when you say that monotheistic religious offer the poor and the downtrodden more than the polytheistic faiths of any particular region.  I think that is a very unfair and incorrect view of the pagan religions as well as an overly positive perception of the monotheistic religions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not particularly enamored with monotheistic religions but, when I was reading the history of early Islam and Christianity in particular - they do offer certain things that would attract followers.  A way of escaping restrictive class and cast systems, dignity for the poor, mandated charity to widows, orphans and disadvantaged and - heaven.  Life sucks - you can have eternity in heaven if you follow the proper procedure.
> 
> It may be we have differing definitions of "benign" - I'm using it to mean with out violent coercion.  Conversion occurred both benignly and forceably in these religions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when a ruler or king converts, and everyone follows, that is not at all necessarily a benign conversion.
> 
> *And the spread of Christianity was a series of brutal waves of persecution, "convert or die", J-man or hell.  Still is in many parts of the world.  As is Islam*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True but not in all cases.
Click to expand...


Islam has 2 choices: Convert or die. Jews, Christians and perhaps Zoroastrians were tolerated as a subjugated class


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
Click to expand...


In reality, the Arab people do not have a "heritage" in the land of Israel.
They, as usual, built a Mosque on top of the other culture's church or synagogue, or temple, in order to erase their history.

The Jewish Holy Places were never sacred to Muslims during the whole 1300 years they came and went, or stayed.
Jerusalem was never important to them, until Israel became Independent and they took the Jewish Quarter away from Israel in 1948.  And Judea and Samaria were never important, either.

They call the Temple Mount the "third holiest" in Islam.
But mostly what they do is play soccer, have picnics, throw rocks at Jews, bring weapons and bombs into their own mosques to use against the Jews, etc, etc.

They did nothing but destroy synagogues, the Jewish cemetery and anything else they could from 1948 to 1967 while they had those parts in their hands, and not allow Jews and Christians any rights to go to their holy sites.  As they had been doing for the past 1300 years, one Muslim group or another.

Some Muslims were nice and did the right thing, like allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem in the 7th Century.  They are very few and far between.

As you say, the Irish, and the Germans and all other Europeans and Asian who came to the Americas do not really have a heritage going back as far back as the First Nations of those lands.

It is the same thing with the Arabs, the Turks, the British, the Greeks, etc.
Unlike the Americas, the Arabs did not create Nations, they do consider themselves ONE nation, and Islam is one Nation as well.
All the world is, or will be Muslim, with no separation, no borders.
That is how they think.

Which is why they will say it on videos, etc, that they are one people.
No difference between them, as there usually is between the Germans, French, Russians, Maoris, Hawaiians, etc.

They are Arabs, speak Arabic and belong to one Nation.  A Muslim, Arab Nation.

If it is possible to understand.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they weren't "equal" but equality was not a value in those times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you are bringing it up NOW as though it has relevance NOW and should be part of the discussion.  You claimed that "Jews and Muslims got along historically".  Now you admit that that historic "getting along" was based on a system of INEQUALITY.  So why are you bringing up an historical inequality as a plus for your arguments.  It seems to me just the opposite.  It seems to me to be saying that Jews and Muslims would CONTINUE to get along -- if only Jews would go back to accepting the inequality and oppression of history.
Click to expand...


Hold on a second.  You are cherry picking what I said.

This was what I said originally - I did not change anything or "now" say anything different:

_On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically. Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values? Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras. It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman). But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe._​
It's not a "plus" OR a negative.  You can't take things out of historical context - what we value today did not exist centuries ago.  So yes - *it is relative*.  Those values did not exist then.  

You said:  _It seems to me to be saying that Jews and Muslims would CONTINUE to get along -- if only Jews would go back to accepting the inequality and oppression of history.
_
I am not saying that AT ALL.  You are putting your own spin on it.  When you claim historic anti-semitism, I am pointing out that no, it wasn't - most of the Islamic anti-semitism occurred in the twentieth century.  Inequality isn't antisemitism - Christians were treated the same in Islamic countires and Muslims were treated the same as Jews in Christian countries.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> It may be we have differing definitions of "benign" - I'm using it to mean with out violent coercion.



Yes.  We are using different definitions.  Coercion, by definition is not benign.  It doesn't have to be violent to be malignant.  Date rape may not be violent.  But it certainly isn't benign.  "Have sex with me or I'll fire you" is not violent, but it sure isn't benign.  "I will give you the starring role in my movie only if you have sex with me" isn't violent, but it sure isn't benign.  

Benign can only happen in a society of equality and compassion.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be clear here.  Either people who immigrate to a land have some sort of claim "extending back X number of years" or they don't.  You gotta pick.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Either the Irish have developed an attachment to American soil and thus have rights to sovereignty on it.  Or the Irish, no matter how long they have lived here, will never have rights to sovereignty here.
> 
> Choose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the all Palestinians didn't immigrate.  Their ancestors have been there as long as they know.  Excluding those who were known to have immigrated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs originate from Arabia They’re descendants of immigrants
Click to expand...


Yes dear.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where has this been debunked?
Click to expand...


Where does it come from?  Which source?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Hold on a second.  You are cherry picking what I said.
> 
> This was what I said originally - I did not change anything or "now" say anything different:
> 
> _On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically. Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values? Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras. It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman). But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe._​
> It's not a "plus" OR a negative.  You can't take things out of historical context - what we value today did not exist centuries ago.  So yes - *it is relative*.  Those values did not exist then.



You brought it up because you thought it was relevant.  So, HOW is it relevant?  When you say, "Muslims and Jews got along historically" -- how is that relevant to today and our topic?


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In reality, the Arab people do not have a "heritage" in the land of Israel.
> They, as usual, built a Mosque on top of the other culture's church or synagogue, or temple, in order to erase their history.
> 
> The Jewish Holy Places were never sacred to Muslims during the whole 1300 years they came and went, or stayed.
> Jerusalem was never important to them, until Israel became Independent and they took the Jewish Quarter away from Israel in 1948.  And Judea and Samaria were never important, either.
> 
> They call the Temple Mount the "third holiest" in Islam.
> But mostly what they do is play soccer, have picnics, throw rocks at Jews, bring weapons and bombs into their own mosques to use against the Jews, etc, etc.
> 
> They did nothing but destroy synagogues, the Jewish cemetery and anything else they could from 1948 to 1967 while they had those parts in their hands, and not allow Jews and Christians any rights to go to their holy sites.  As they had been doing for the past 1300 years, one Muslim group or another.
> 
> Some Muslims were nice and did the right thing, like allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem in the 7th Century.  They are very few and far between.
> 
> As you say, the Irish, and the Germans and all other Europeans and Asian who came to the Americas do not really have a heritage going back as far back as the First Nations of those lands.
> 
> It is the same thing with the Arabs, the Turks, the British, the Greeks, etc.
> Unlike the Americas, the Arabs did not create Nations, they do consider themselves ONE nation, and Islam is one Nation as well.
> All the world is, or will be Muslim, with no separation, no borders.
> That is how they think.
> 
> Which is why they will say it on videos, etc, that they are one people.
> No difference between them, as there usually is between the Germans, French, Russians, Maoris, Hawaiians, etc.
> 
> They are Arabs, speak Arabic and belong to one Nation.  A Muslim, Arab Nation.
> 
> If it is possible to understand.
Click to expand...


Palestinians - Wikipedia
The Palestinian people (Arabic: الشعب الفلسطيني‎‎, _ash-sha‘b al-Filasṭīnī_), also referred to as Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون‎‎, _al-Filasṭīniyyūn_, Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים‎) or Palestinian Arabs (Arabic: العربي الفلسطيني‎‎, _al-'arabi il-filastini_), are an ethnonational group[29][30][31][32][33][34][35] comprising t*he modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries, including Jews and Samaritans*, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> most of the Islamic anti-semitism occurred in the twentieth century.



No.  Anti-semitism has been a continuous problem since antiquity.  It is not a modern phenomena.  It changed with the importation of specifically Christian forms of anti-semitism.  But "Jews are apes and pigs" is specifically Islamic and originated far longer than 100 years ago.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be clear here.  Either people who immigrate to a land have some sort of claim "extending back X number of years" or they don't.  You gotta pick.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Either the Irish have developed an attachment to American soil and thus have rights to sovereignty on it.  Or the Irish, no matter how long they have lived here, will never have rights to sovereignty here.
> 
> Choose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the all Palestinians didn't immigrate.  Their ancestors have been there as long as they know.  Excluding those who were known to have immigrated.
Click to expand...


"Well the all Palestinians didn't immigrate.  Their ancestors have been there as long as they know."

Sorry, no. The "Palestinians" know that they have "been there" since the Arabs invaded in the 7th Century.  They are Arabs.  They are not made up of any other group.
All of them immigrated, or were born there afterwards, at some point or another for the past 1300 years before 1948.
There was a greater immigration of Arabs at the end of the 19th century because of Ottoman tumult and because Jews were creating Jobs on their ancient homeland, and they wanted a better life.

None of those who immigrated between 1892 and 1948 had any idea that eventually future Arab leaders would not agree to a State next to a Jewish one, and would not allow them to have a normal life and education, if ever was possible, while Israel existed.

Again, you are repeating things you have read somewhere which have no foundation on facts.

The Arabs are saying that they, as Palestinians, have been on the land since time immemorial.  It is totally non factual.  Most, unless travelers, etc, were living on the Arabian Peninsula and remained there until the 7th century CE when Islam was founded, and conquest became their main ideology and they immigrated to many parts of Asia, North Africa and Europe at the same time conquering the lands they crossed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In reality, the Arab people do not have a "heritage" in the land of Israel.
> They, as usual, built a Mosque on top of the other culture's church or synagogue, or temple, in order to erase their history.
> 
> The Jewish Holy Places were never sacred to Muslims during the whole 1300 years they came and went, or stayed.
> Jerusalem was never important to them, until Israel became Independent and they took the Jewish Quarter away from Israel in 1948.  And Judea and Samaria were never important, either.
> 
> They call the Temple Mount the "third holiest" in Islam.
> But mostly what they do is play soccer, have picnics, throw rocks at Jews, bring weapons and bombs into their own mosques to use against the Jews, etc, etc.
> 
> They did nothing but destroy synagogues, the Jewish cemetery and anything else they could from 1948 to 1967 while they had those parts in their hands, and not allow Jews and Christians any rights to go to their holy sites.  As they had been doing for the past 1300 years, one Muslim group or another.
> 
> Some Muslims were nice and did the right thing, like allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem in the 7th Century.  They are very few and far between.
> 
> As you say, the Irish, and the Germans and all other Europeans and Asian who came to the Americas do not really have a heritage going back as far back as the First Nations of those lands.
> 
> It is the same thing with the Arabs, the Turks, the British, the Greeks, etc.
> Unlike the Americas, the Arabs did not create Nations, they do consider themselves ONE nation, and Islam is one Nation as well.
> All the world is, or will be Muslim, with no separation, no borders.
> That is how they think.
> 
> Which is why they will say it on videos, etc, that they are one people.
> No difference between them, as there usually is between the Germans, French, Russians, Maoris, Hawaiians, etc.
> 
> They are Arabs, speak Arabic and belong to one Nation.  A Muslim, Arab Nation.
> 
> If it is possible to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians - Wikipedia
> The Palestinian people (Arabic: الشعب الفلسطيني‎‎, _ash-sha‘b al-Filasṭīnī_), also referred to as Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون‎‎, _al-Filasṭīniyyūn_, Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים‎) or Palestinian Arabs (Arabic: العربي الفلسطيني‎‎, _al-'arabi il-filastini_), are an ethnonational group[29][30][31][32][33][34][35] comprising t*he modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries, including Jews and Samaritans*, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab
Click to expand...


Could you explain why, right after WWI, the Palestinians were identifying themselves as Syrians and wanting to be part of Greater Syria?  
Why did they not refer themselves as Palestinians and want their land to be known as Palestine from the very beginning of the Mandate?


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> Agree.
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where has this been debunked?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where does it come from?  Which source?
Click to expand...


Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In reality, the Arab people do not have a "heritage" in the land of Israel.
> They, as usual, built a Mosque on top of the other culture's church or synagogue, or temple, in order to erase their history.
> 
> The Jewish Holy Places were never sacred to Muslims during the whole 1300 years they came and went, or stayed.
> Jerusalem was never important to them, until Israel became Independent and they took the Jewish Quarter away from Israel in 1948.  And Judea and Samaria were never important, either.
> 
> They call the Temple Mount the "third holiest" in Islam.
> But mostly what they do is play soccer, have picnics, throw rocks at Jews, bring weapons and bombs into their own mosques to use against the Jews, etc, etc.
> 
> They did nothing but destroy synagogues, the Jewish cemetery and anything else they could from 1948 to 1967 while they had those parts in their hands, and not allow Jews and Christians any rights to go to their holy sites.  As they had been doing for the past 1300 years, one Muslim group or another.
> 
> Some Muslims were nice and did the right thing, like allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem in the 7th Century.  They are very few and far between.
> 
> As you say, the Irish, and the Germans and all other Europeans and Asian who came to the Americas do not really have a heritage going back as far back as the First Nations of those lands.
> 
> It is the same thing with the Arabs, the Turks, the British, the Greeks, etc.
> Unlike the Americas, the Arabs did not create Nations, they do consider themselves ONE nation, and Islam is one Nation as well.
> All the world is, or will be Muslim, with no separation, no borders.
> That is how they think.
> 
> Which is why they will say it on videos, etc, that they are one people.
> No difference between them, as there usually is between the Germans, French, Russians, Maoris, Hawaiians, etc.
> 
> They are Arabs, speak Arabic and belong to one Nation.  A Muslim, Arab Nation.
> 
> If it is possible to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians - Wikipedia
> The Palestinian people (Arabic: الشعب الفلسطيني‎‎, _ash-sha‘b al-Filasṭīnī_), also referred to as Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون‎‎, _al-Filasṭīniyyūn_, Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים‎) or Palestinian Arabs (Arabic: العربي الفلسطيني‎‎, _al-'arabi il-filastini_), are an ethnonational group[29][30][31][32][33][34][35] comprising t*he modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries, including Jews and Samaritans*, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you explain why, right after WWI, the Palestinians were identifying themselves as Syrians and wanting to be part of Greater Syria?
> Why did they not refer themselves as Palestinians and want their land to be known as Palestine from the very beginning of the Mandate?
Click to expand...


WW1 is now a hundred years ago.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on a second.  You are cherry picking what I said.
> 
> This was what I said originally - I did not change anything or "now" say anything different:
> 
> _On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically. Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values? Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras. It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman). But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe._​
> It's not a "plus" OR a negative.  You can't take things out of historical context - what we value today did not exist centuries ago.  So yes - *it is relative*.  Those values did not exist then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You brought it up because you thought it was relevant.  So, HOW is it relevant?  When you say, "Muslims and Jews got along historically" -- how is that relevant to today and our topic?
Click to expand...


I brought it up because it was in *response to a comment in another post* about the historic relationship between Muslims and Jews.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where has this been debunked?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where does it come from?  Which source?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots
Click to expand...


No. Modern palestinians are Arabs. Jews and Arabs are not related


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.  Let me clarify my concern.
> 
> My concern is that we make new people over and over and over until the OTHER people still exist, but no longer have any territory to claim.
> 
> It would be like the Irish claiming a part of the US.  And the British.  And the French.  And the Scots.  And the Germans.  And the Dutch.  And they claim so much land, there is none left over for the First Nations People.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you do when both people's have roots extending back thousand or more years?
> 
> I don't see how it would be like the Irish claiming part of the US - no portion of their heritage is there...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In reality, the Arab people do not have a "heritage" in the land of Israel.
> They, as usual, built a Mosque on top of the other culture's church or synagogue, or temple, in order to erase their history.
> 
> The Jewish Holy Places were never sacred to Muslims during the whole 1300 years they came and went, or stayed.
> Jerusalem was never important to them, until Israel became Independent and they took the Jewish Quarter away from Israel in 1948.  And Judea and Samaria were never important, either.
> 
> They call the Temple Mount the "third holiest" in Islam.
> But mostly what they do is play soccer, have picnics, throw rocks at Jews, bring weapons and bombs into their own mosques to use against the Jews, etc, etc.
> 
> They did nothing but destroy synagogues, the Jewish cemetery and anything else they could from 1948 to 1967 while they had those parts in their hands, and not allow Jews and Christians any rights to go to their holy sites.  As they had been doing for the past 1300 years, one Muslim group or another.
> 
> Some Muslims were nice and did the right thing, like allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem in the 7th Century.  They are very few and far between.
> 
> As you say, the Irish, and the Germans and all other Europeans and Asian who came to the Americas do not really have a heritage going back as far back as the First Nations of those lands.
> 
> It is the same thing with the Arabs, the Turks, the British, the Greeks, etc.
> Unlike the Americas, the Arabs did not create Nations, they do consider themselves ONE nation, and Islam is one Nation as well.
> All the world is, or will be Muslim, with no separation, no borders.
> That is how they think.
> 
> Which is why they will say it on videos, etc, that they are one people.
> No difference between them, as there usually is between the Germans, French, Russians, Maoris, Hawaiians, etc.
> 
> They are Arabs, speak Arabic and belong to one Nation.  A Muslim, Arab Nation.
> 
> If it is possible to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians - Wikipedia
> The Palestinian people (Arabic: الشعب الفلسطيني‎‎, _ash-sha‘b al-Filasṭīnī_), also referred to as Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون‎‎, _al-Filasṭīniyyūn_, Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים‎) or Palestinian Arabs (Arabic: العربي الفلسطيني‎‎, _al-'arabi il-filastini_), are an ethnonational group[29][30][31][32][33][34][35] comprising t*he modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries, including Jews and Samaritans*, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you explain why, right after WWI, the Palestinians were identifying themselves as Syrians and wanting to be part of Greater Syria?
> Why did they not refer themselves as Palestinians and want their land to be known as Palestine from the very beginning of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WW1 is now a hundred years ago.
Click to expand...

You have not answered my question mainly because you do not know how the Arabs who were living in the region of Palestine thought about themselves, and especially as the Ottoman Empire was going to be carved amongst Arabs especially, how the Leaders and others saw themselves or wanted to be part of.


----------



## JoelT1

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on a second.  You are cherry picking what I said.
> 
> This was what I said originally - I did not change anything or "now" say anything different:
> 
> _On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically. Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values? Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras. It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman). But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe._​
> It's not a "plus" OR a negative.  You can't take things out of historical context - what we value today did not exist centuries ago.  So yes - *it is relative*.  Those values did not exist then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You brought it up because you thought it was relevant.  So, HOW is it relevant?  When you say, "Muslims and Jews got along historically" -- how is that relevant to today and our topic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I brought it up because it was in *response to a comment in another post* about the historic relationship between Muslims and Jews.
Click to expand...


Muslims historically have been hostile to Jews, Ottoman Turks an exception.


----------



## Coyote

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where has this been debunked?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where does it come from?  Which source?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Modern palestinians are Arabs. Jews and Arabs are not related
Click to expand...


326


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other."
> 
> Sorry, but genetic studies do not support what you are saying.
> 
> What you are saying comes from allegations, and not from actual DNA tests done on some Palestinians to see if they are closely related to Jews.  These genetic studies have been debunked and it does not help for people who do not know that they are false, to keep repeating them.
> 
> They are more than Arab invaders.  Some clans have been there for a thousand years.
> 
> But that is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is how Islam views Jews.  What rights does Islam gives to Jews.  What rights Islam has ever given to Jews for the past 1400 years, which is something which some people truly cannot understand.
> 
> It has led to 1300 years of oppression.
> It has led to 100 years of rejection of any sovereignty for Jews on their ancient homeland.
> 
> The conflict is as basic as that.
> 
> Islam has replaced Judaism and they tell the Jews what rights they have.
> 
> You assume that the Jewish people after the 7th century converted to Islam, or Christianity.  They did not, unless forced to.
> 
> Records show that the Jewish presence was constant, with Jews always returning to their ancient homeland, and even more so in the 19th century.
> 
> Arabs are not mainly invaders, like all the others.  As Muslims they do believe that any land they have conquered will always remain under Islam, no matter which group.  That is why one does not have any wars between the Turks and the Arabs for the 500 years of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> All of these Muslims and Christian Arabs who have roots on the Land of Israel, born there, can live there.  As I have said before, Jews never meant to expel them but to live with them in peace if possible.
> The Al-Husseini clan chose otherwise and won the leadership of the Arab people by force.
> 
> I will say it again.
> Get rid of the Arab leaders of today, sometime in the future, and peace will be possible.
> No Iran, no Qatar, no other Arab or Muslim country meddling between the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating and wanting peace, and it will happen as it did with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Someday, who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where has this been debunked?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where does it come from?  Which source?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots
Click to expand...


That graphic is not in that article.

The fact that some Jews have been either forced to convert to Islam, or at any point, or recently have chosen to convert to Islam, does not make them brothers or cousins of the Arabs.

There have been very few instances of Jews marrying Arabs, and I am saying Arabs, one can call them Palestinians all one wants, when they actually identify with coming from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and many other parts of the conquered Muslim world.

There is no "Arabs are descendants of Ishmael".  That is a total myth which only came to be after Islam was founded to try to make it look as if there has ever been any connection between Jews and Arabs blood wise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


"The problem was not with Jews.  It was with the settlers who came."

Um.  Who were Jews.  And not Arabs.  The problem was not with settlers, because Arab settlers were readily accepted (and not called settlers).  But with settlers who were Jews.  Hence, the problem is with the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Sorry, no. The "Palestinians" know that they have "been there" since the Arabs invaded in the 7th Century. They are Arabs. They are not made up of any other group.


Are you saying that before the "Arab invasion" there was nobody there but Jews?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


This is who your sweetheart is: (So glad to see that she is for peace with Israel (sic)   )  Palestine is for Arabs, but not Jews, unless the Jews return to being dhimmis.  She, who lives in Boston, knows all about Apartheid in Israel     ) 


*Leila Farsakh*
Leila Farsakh supports a one-state framework and claims “[t]he area is heading to the abyss of an apartheid state system rather than to a viable two-state solution, let alone peace.” Farsakh also edited a book entitled “Commemorating the Naksa [a term which refers to results of the 1967 war] Evoking the Nakba,” which states that the security barrier “signaled the existence of the last apartheid regime of the 21st century” and says that Israel turned “the territories” into “incarceration camps” (Editor’s Note p.8). Farsakh teaches at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. 

One State Conference at Harvard: Analysis of Speakers and NGO Involvement


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The problem was not with Jews.  It was with the settlers who came."
> 
> Um.  Who were Jews.  And not Arabs.  The problem was not with settlers, because Arab settlers were readily accepted (and not called settlers).  But with settlers who were Jews.  Hence, the problem is with the Jews.
Click to expand...

You are still confusing immigrants and settlers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, no. The "Palestinians" know that they have "been there" since the Arabs invaded in the 7th Century. They are Arabs. They are not made up of any other group.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that before the "Arab invasion" there was nobody there but Jews?
Click to expand...

You just keep falling for your own tricks. Why is that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The problem was not with Jews.  It was with the settlers who came."
> 
> Um.  Who were Jews.  And not Arabs.  The problem was not with settlers, because Arab settlers were readily accepted (and not called settlers).  But with settlers who were Jews.  Hence, the problem is with the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still confusing immigrants and settlers.
Click to expand...

Right !!!!

Arabs are immigrants.
Jews are settlers.

Got it


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You are still confusing immigrants and settlers.



Uh uh.  Sure.  If you are an Arab who wants self-determination -- good.  But if you are a Jew who wants self-determination -- evil.  

How DARE those Jew-people want to return to their ancestral and historical homeland and have self-determination there.  The HORROR!  We must make sure that NO ONE is ever allowed to do that.  Because - awful.  

Oh wait.  But the Arabs must be allowed to return there.  Oh jeeze.  Hypocrisy much?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing immigrants and settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh uh.  Sure.  If you are an Arab who wants self-determination -- good.  But if you are a Jew who wants self-determination -- evil.
> 
> How DARE those Jew-people want to return to their ancestral and historical homeland and have self-determination there.  The HORROR!  We must make sure that NO ONE is ever allowed to do that.  Because - awful.
> 
> Oh wait.  But the Arabs must be allowed to return there.  Oh jeeze.  Hypocrisy much?
Click to expand...

I rest my case.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is who your sweetheart is: (So glad to see that she is for peace with Israel (sic)   )  Palestine is for Arabs, but not Jews, unless the Jews return to being dhimmis.  She, who lives in Boston, knows all about Apartheid in Israel     )
> 
> 
> *Leila Farsakh*
> Leila Farsakh supports a one-state framework and claims “[t]he area is heading to the abyss of an apartheid state system rather than to a viable two-state solution, let alone peace.” Farsakh also edited a book entitled “Commemorating the Naksa [a term which refers to results of the 1967 war] Evoking the Nakba,” which states that the security barrier “signaled the existence of the last apartheid regime of the 21st century” and says that Israel turned “the territories” into “incarceration camps” (Editor’s Note p.8). Farsakh teaches at the University of Massachusetts, Boston.
> 
> One State Conference at Harvard: Analysis of Speakers and NGO Involvement
Click to expand...

Nice lineup. Thanks for the link.


----------



## thetor

JoelT1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you wont give a straight answer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A couple of things.  Joel's position is not unique, there are other members here who have presented similar points of view.  Israeli's and Jews are as diverse as any other group imo.
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.  Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> The real conflict arose with the mandate, the rise of pan-Arab and of Jewish nationalism, and - yes - the unwillingness of the Arabs to accept a Jewish state on "Muslim land".  But all that - and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uninformed, as usual. Muslims perpetrated the first holocaust of Jews. Not a good start
Click to expand...

What complete rot,Mohammed had freedom of religion....your wrath should be directed to the Romans,Christians of Spain,Russians and Germans...your grasp of Jewish history is Zilch

By the way Palestinians are Christian,Muslim etc.,your prose is so riddled with holes,much like Swiss Cheese.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> They were all just Palestinians. There was no distinction. Religion was irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the kumbaya fairytale again...
> 
> Now for facts:
> 
> The distinction between Arabs and Jews was pretty clear, during the years of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. Prior to Zionism.
> 
> Q. But let's pretend You were right, and there was no distinction. Then why didn't Jews deserve all those rights You claim Arab do?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.

Palestine never existed


----------



## JoelT1

thetor said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> 
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A couple of things.  Joel's position is not unique, there are other members here who have presented similar points of view.  Israeli's and Jews are as diverse as any other group imo.
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.  Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> The real conflict arose with the mandate, the rise of pan-Arab and of Jewish nationalism, and - yes - the unwillingness of the Arabs to accept a Jewish state on "Muslim land".  But all that - and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uninformed, as usual. Muslims perpetrated the first holocaust of Jews. Not a good start
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What complete rot,Mohammed had freedom of religion....your wrath should be directed to the Romans,Christians of Spain,Russians and Germans...your grasp of Jewish history is Zilch
> 
> By the way Palestinians are Christian,Muslim etc.,your prose is so riddled with holes,much like Swiss Cheese.
Click to expand...


Muhammad forcibly converted Arabia.


----------



## JoelT1

thetor said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 22 Arab countries to accommodate “palestinians” including nearby Jordan. In fact, they have similar flags
> 
> 
> 
> So you are talking about forced deportationn of millions of people? That is what you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coyote,  Joel is not Jewish.  Nor Israeli.
> He is speaking for himself and what he believes in.
> That is not the Israeli or Jewish position, and you need to consider that.
> 
> Reacting to what one poster or another says, instead of looking at the facts on the ground, and what the history has been since 1920 needs to be the starting point of thinking and discussing about this.
> 
> One cannot sweep before 1948 or before 1967 under the rug.
> 
> Or the Muslim, Arab culture and mentality in regards to the Jewish people, either.
> 
> The previous 1300 years tell a lot about how Muslims were taught about the Jewish people and how they should be treated.
> 
> And, yes, that matters a lot and is at the bottom of this conflict, and why the Arab leaders (not the population) have refused a State in 1937, 1947 and after that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A couple of things.  Joel's position is not unique, there are other members here who have presented similar points of view.  Israeli's and Jews are as diverse as any other group imo.
> 
> On how Muslims feel about Jewish people - Muslims and Jews largely got along historically.  Was it a 20th century relationship of human rights, religious tolerance and democratic values?  Of course not - that did not exist in any culture of those eras.  It sucked to be the minority religions/ethnicities (and sucked worse to be a woman).   But Jews in many areas flourished in ways they could not in Christian Europe.
> 
> The real conflict arose with the mandate, the rise of pan-Arab and of Jewish nationalism, and - yes - the unwillingness of the Arabs to accept a Jewish state on "Muslim land".  But all that - and the virulant anti-semitism is relatively recent in the long history of both those faiths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uninformed, as usual. Muslims perpetrated the first holocaust of Jews. Not a good start
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What complete rot,Mohammed had freedom of religion....your wrath should be directed to the Romans,Christians of Spain,Russians and Germans...your grasp of Jewish history is Zilch
> 
> By the way Palestinians are Christian,Muslim etc.,your prose is so riddled with holes,much like Swiss Cheese.
Click to expand...


99% of fakestinians are Muslims


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Interviewer: "Has the Palestinian leadership ever officially declared that it is no longer bound by the Oslo Accords?"
> 
> Salwa Hudaib: "The Vienna Convention stipulates that if any party breaches an agreement, that agreement becomes null and void. Israel did not implement the agreement within five years, and it continued its activities of settlement, of Judaization, of deportation, killings, and oppression, and only intensified its occupation and settlements, and therefore, we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. President Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] has not declared this officially, except for when he said, during the [2017] Al-Aqsa Uprising, that we were halting the [security] coordination and all bilateral relations with the Israelis. This started on July 14th, 2017, and it continues to this day. In addition, the popular resistance has intensified. So we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. I say, on my own behalf and on behalf of the Fatah movement, that we are not bound by the Oslo Accords, because these accords no longer exist on the ground."
> ----
> The Oslo Accords created the Palestinian Authority. it is what gave the Palestinians self-rule over Areas A and B.
> 
> So if they say it is abrogated, then Israel has every legal right to take over the entire West Bank again, and control it legally under international law, since there is no Palestinian legal entity.
> 
> (full article/video online)
> 
> If the PA isn't bound by the Oslo accords, then it should self-destruct, right? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Oslo expired in1999.

The Palestinians established a new government with the Palestinian Basic Law (constitution) of 2003. There was no mention of Israel, no mention of Oslo, no mention of occupation, no mention of changing borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> " Why do Arabs need another state"


They don't. They just want the one they have been living in for centuries.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interviewer: "Has the Palestinian leadership ever officially declared that it is no longer bound by the Oslo Accords?"
> 
> Salwa Hudaib: "The Vienna Convention stipulates that if any party breaches an agreement, that agreement becomes null and void. Israel did not implement the agreement within five years, and it continued its activities of settlement, of Judaization, of deportation, killings, and oppression, and only intensified its occupation and settlements, and therefore, we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. President Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] has not declared this officially, except for when he said, during the [2017] Al-Aqsa Uprising, that we were halting the [security] coordination and all bilateral relations with the Israelis. This started on July 14th, 2017, and it continues to this day. In addition, the popular resistance has intensified. So we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. I say, on my own behalf and on behalf of the Fatah movement, that we are not bound by the Oslo Accords, because these accords no longer exist on the ground."
> ----
> The Oslo Accords created the Palestinian Authority. it is what gave the Palestinians self-rule over Areas A and B.
> 
> So if they say it is abrogated, then Israel has every legal right to take over the entire West Bank again, and control it legally under international law, since there is no Palestinian legal entity.
> 
> (full article/video online)
> 
> If the PA isn't bound by the Oslo accords, then it should self-destruct, right? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo expired in1999.
> 
> The Palestinians established a new government with the Palestinian Basic Law (constitution) of 2003. There was no mention of Israel, no mention of Oslo, no mention of occupation, no mention of changing borders.
Click to expand...


Palestine was merely Britain’s name for the British Mandate where Jews were originally called palestinians ⤵️


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→   P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_

Don't get tied up over synonyms; it is an unimportant distraction.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing immigrants and settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh uh.  Sure.  If you are an Arab who wants self-determination -- good.  But if you are a Jew who wants self-determination -- evil.
> 
> How DARE those Jew-people want to return to their ancestral and historical homeland and have self-determination there.  The HORROR!  We must make sure that NO ONE is ever allowed to do that.  Because - awful.
> 
> Oh wait.  But the Arabs must be allowed to return there.  Oh jeeze.  Hypocrisy much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

And don't make a Gordian Knot where none should be.

*IF* you are Arab _(“people who belong to culture, and ethnicity "X”)_ who wants self-determination ⇒ good.   

*IF *you are Jew _(“people who belong to culture, and ethnicity "Y”)_ who wants self-determination ⇒ evil.
Just on the face value of this "good and evil" comparison, anyone can discern that there is something wrong; they are caught by a false equivalence *IF and ONLY IF* all "peoples" (Arab and Jew) have the same right to self-determination.

*※→*  The process by which a country determines its own statehood and forms its own allegiances and government:
*※→*  Contemporary notions of self-determination usually distinguish between “internal” and “external” self-determination, suggesting that "self-determination" exists on a spectrum.  _Internal self-determination_ may refer to various political and social rights; by contrast, _external self-determination_ refers to full legal independence/secession for the given 'people' from the larger politico-legal state.​
The basic practical problem here is that the Arab Palestinians fail to accept that the all the issues were settled in a "Trial by Combat."  They want the "Trial by Combat" to continue.

*•  Arab Palestinians* would like the Israelis to move out of Palestine and give back the land they have taken since 1948. 

•  A more moderate *demand* is for Israelis to give back only the land they have taken since 1967.​
*IF* one of these positions satisfies the Arab Palestinians, *THEN* it is not a question of "self-determination," but one of sovereign control.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> _* *_
> Thst is really informative, and puts it in a way I had not thought of.  I will argue though that in regards to rights and self determination many on this board do not think they should be extended to Palestinians simply because they are Arabs or fake people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  I think everyone on Team Israel believes in self-determination for the Arabs.  (Yes, even Joel).
> 
> Some notice that the Arabs who identify as Syrian, Jordanian and Palestinian don't actually recognize a distinction between these three identifications and say they are all one.  Thus they self-identify as belonging to a larger group -- a group which ALREADY has self-determination in two sovereign States, PLUS all of Gaza, PLUS Areas A and B.
> 
> That is NOT the same thing as denying self-determination to Arabs or calling certain Arabs a "fake" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is the same. Once you label people fake you take the first step in deligitimizing them and negating their regional rights.  When certain members of Team Israel do this it is coupled with " Why do Arabs need another state" or send them to Jordan. You are effectivelly negating their right to self identify as a people belonging to that region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we extrapolate this further -- yes, I'm going to take it to a bit of an extreme for demonstration purposes -- let's take the Arab population in and around Nazareth.  In the Northern District of Israel, the population is roughly 50/50 Arab and Jewish.  It is squarely and clearly in Israel.  Let's imagine that we actually settle this whole conflict and divide the territory under dispute roughly along the 1949 lines and create the State of Palestine.  Now.  Imagine the Arab population of the Northern District says that they are Nazarenes.  Not Israeli.  Not Palestinian.  At the same time they recognize that Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians and Nazarenes are all the same people.  They self-identify as unified.   Yet the Nazarenes wish to also have self-determination.
> 
> Do you see how this whittles away the State of Israel?  Do you see how this has the function (whether or not it is intentional) of denying Jewish self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So are you effectively saying the only way to have Jewish self dermination is to delegitimize the Palestinians because it sur sounds like it and it is exactly what peoe like Joel are doing.  How is it any different than the many attempts some on here make to delegitimize Jews as a people from claims that an entire branch are just Europeans to denying their right to self identify?
> 
> The Palestinians have been self identifying as Palestinans for quite a few generations now.  If they also identify with Syrians how is that any different then French Jews who also identify as French?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> " Why do Arabs need another state"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't. They just want the one they have been living in for centuries.
Click to expand...


What “state” would that be?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> You are confusing the people.
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such. It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.


The Palestinians declared independence in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self identification is important and most self identify as Palestians now and for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most acknowledge that there is no difference between Palestinians and Jordanians and Syrians.  That they are one people.  They self-identify as one people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are saying the Palestinians have no right to self determination or a nation because other Arab peoples have it already and they are doing it by denying them their rights as a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is NOT what team Israel are saying.  No one on team Israel is saying that the Palestinians can't have a State of any kind on any territory.  Not even Joel is saying that.  Joel is simply saying that the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have yet ANOTHER State or three on territory that was granted to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I want to apologize for the scarcity of my answers as I am relying on my phone and it sucks to type and produces a ton of typos.  I would rather be more verbose snd use sources.  Tonight i will try to be on the computer.
> 
> Second i want clarify a few things.
> 
> The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity.
> 
> When you are saying they should not have another state on the territory granted to Jews what exactly do you mean?  They should go to Africa...South America? Or shift tbem to Jordan and Syria?  See I havent seen Joel state snything beyond denying them any rights of place or identity.  It isnt too disimilar to the ways that Myanmar is erasing the Rohinga identity (without the murder and violence Myanmar is conducting) banning even the word.  They are nobody. A people with no name or citizenship. I see a systemic effort to deny the Palestinians an identity.
> 
> If what you mean is the territory that is currently recognized as Israel then i agree with you. There is Gaza and the West Bank (exactly what parts to be negotiated) then that is reasonable as many will still be in the area where they have cultural and familial ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very significant difference between "You can not have a State ANYWHERE on this territory (or anywhere in the world) because you do not exist" and saying, "You can't have a State HERE because this is the place for the Jewish people, but you can have one THERE because that is the place for the Arab Palestinian people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The equivalent would be for team Israel to say, "The Arab Palestinians can not have a State anywhere in the world because they do not exist."  (And we are going to stay at war with them until their State is destroyed.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is anyone saying the Jews can not have state anywhere in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does a people become a people?  Is there a magical line where it is decided no new peoples can come into being or is it only Palestinians held to that line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THAT is a fascinating question.  Actually, I think the question should be reversed.  When does a people cease to belong to a broad cultural group (a people)?  Is self-identification the ONLY criteria?  Or is there some requirement for some sort of significant cultural change or difference?  If yes, what criteria would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great questions...and i am not sure I have an answer but it deserves a post of its own and fits into the topic perfectly.  I am going to answer this part later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it end? This creation of new peoples and disappearance of Israel?  Where does this creation of "new" peoples become an encroachment on the rights of the Jewish people to ALSO have a State?  When 75% is removed?  When 90% is removed?  When 95% is removed?  100%?  How to we prevent the Jewish State from growing smaller, and smaller and smaller with the continuous invention of new peoples?
> 
> Let's put shoe on other foot.  Let's say the Jewish people decide they are actually four different peoples, based on their long history in so many places.  They demand a sovereign State in Jordan.  Another in Syria.  Another in Lebanon.  Yay or nay?  And why?
> 
> 
> And keep in mind, I am asking these questions because I'm a shit disturber (grin) and am looking for a higher level of conversation here (which you graciously provide).  You know I believe that the Arab Palestinian people in the "West Bank" and Gaza should have another State if they want one.  Or they should be able to join with Jordan or Egypt if they so desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are great discussion points so i sill answer them later when i am not so constrained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, with all due respect:
> 
> "The Palestinians are now a people. They consider themselves a people. It should not mstter if they are culturally very similar to others.  They have lived in the area referred to as Palestine for thousands of years.  They have been overrun and conquered and married into other peoples and they include immigrants from other Arab countries. They have deep family ties to place that is equal to thogh different from the ties claimed by the Jews.  This is one thing some here will not recognize as having any validity."
> 
> 
> *You are confusing the people.*
> 
> The Jews have been in, if one prefers to call it, Palestine.
> They are the Palestinians the Romans changed the name into Syria Palestinia.
> 
> The Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the same ethnicity of Arabs who invaded the area in the 7th century, while Jews were still living there, and continued to live there.  The Arabs did not call the Jews or any other people of the area "Palestinians".
> 
> The idea of calling Jews and Arabs, Druze, etc Palestinians, came from the British Mandate for Palestine (it should have been called after Israel, but it was not)
> 
> Not being able to stop the descendants of the ancient Jews from recreating their ancient nation, or destroy it after 1948, the Arabs leaders - Arafat - decided to adopt the identity of Palestinians, in 1964.
> 
> That was not because they wanted to create a State called Palestine because they identified as such.  It was to continue to try to destroy Israel.
> 
> And these facts seem to be something you cannot absorb and think about.
> 
> Since the first Arab riot in 1920, the Jewish leaders have been able to share the land.  78 % was taken without asking the Jews and given to the Hashemites.
> In 1937 the Jewish leaders agreed to a partition for Jews and Arabs.
> What were they in the middle of?  Did the Arab leaders accept?
> 
> The same thing for 1947 and the UN proposed partition.
> 
> Q:  If the Arab leaders so identify with a Palestinian identity, and I am not speaking about the rest of the population, why are they so intent in destroying Israel in order to have their State on top of it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not confusing anyone Sixties...but you are mixing issues.  Let's stick to one argument at the time.
> 
> Are the Palestinian a "people" - at this point in time?  Yes.
> 
> Do they have a heritage and roots in those lands they inhabit?  Yes.
> 
> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders.  Think on this a moment.   The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions.  The people who lived there - what of them?  Did they automatically disappear?  No.  They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds.  Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today.  Genetic studies support that.  Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other.  So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> You say they are nothing more than Arab invaders. Think on this a moment. The Arab culture and Muslim religion spread widely - by conquest and also by benign conversion as with most religions. The people who lived there - what of them? Did they automatically disappear? No. They converted, intermarried, whatever - but they are the same people who's ancestors were Christians, Jews and pagans and who farmed those same lands and grazed their herds. Those - plus immigrants from other Arab countries are who the Palestinians are today. Genetic studies support that. Palestinians are very close to Jews - infact closer than some Jewish groups are to each other. So saying they are nothing more than Arab invaders is dishonest.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_

Yes, this is position that → the Oslo Accords "expired" → is the radicals way of justifying continuation of "armed struggle" _(their principle objective)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interviewer: "Has the Palestinian leadership ever officially declared that it is no longer bound by the Oslo Accords?"
> 
> Salwa Hudaib: "The Vienna Convention stipulates that if any party breaches an agreement, that agreement becomes null and void. Israel did not implement the agreement within five years, and it continued its activities of settlement, of Judaization, of deportation, killings, and oppression, and only intensified its occupation and settlements, and therefore, we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. President Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] has not declared this officially, except for when he said, during the [2017] Al-Aqsa Uprising, that we were halting the [security] coordination and all bilateral relations with the Israelis. This started on July 14th, 2017, and it continues to this day. In addition, the popular resistance has intensified. So we are not bound by the Oslo Accords. I say, on my own behalf and on behalf of the Fatah movement, that we are not bound by the Oslo Accords, because these accords no longer exist on the ground."
> ----
> The Oslo Accords created the Palestinian Authority. it is what gave the Palestinians self-rule over Areas A and B.
> 
> So if they say it is abrogated, then Israel has every legal right to take over the entire West Bank again, and control it legally under international law, since there is no Palestinian legal entity.
> 
> (full article/video online)
> 
> If the PA isn't bound by the Oslo accords, then it should self-destruct, right? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo expired in1999.
> 
> The Palestinians established a new government with the Palestinian Basic Law (constitution) of 2003. There was no mention of Israel, no mention of Oslo, no mention of occupation, no mention of changing borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The domestic "Basic Law" is not an international accord. 

•  A/48/486  S/26560  11 October 1993  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
  (AKA:  Oslo I Accord)
•  A/51/889  S/1997/357  5 May 1997  Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
(AKA:  Oslo II Accord)

√  Neither Article XVII of Oslo I --- or --- Article XXXI of Oslo II have an expiration date.
√  Neither Article XVII of Oslo I --- or --- Article XXXI of Oslo II have a date corresponding to 1999. 
⇒  I do not believe the Accords are expired.​
Article XV is the process for Dispute Resolution within Oslo I, corresponding to Article XXI on the Settlement of Differences.  This process usually start with the standard arrangements.

•  UN Guide to Resolving Disputes
•  Mediation Service was established by the General Assembly as part of the United Nations Ombudsman and Mediation Services (UNOMS)​
To the best of my knowledge, the Arab Palestinians never even tried to activate the Dispute Resolution Process.  They jumped immediately to a bastardized Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) Process _(AKA:  bDRP)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each group that wants to be recognized as a "people" has to make a case for it first - you can't just negate them automatically based on the premise they will eventually swallow a land.  In fact, that isn't happening.  No other group is fighting for same territories or claiming any rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by this.  I'm not sure I understand and don't want to assume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...who decides when a people is a people?  I don't know.  I think each group that wants that recognition must make a case for it.  I guess self identitification  is a major part of it.  Despite the seeming ease of it we don't have hundreds of groups clammering for recognition and rights.  Does that clarify at all?
Click to expand...

The Palestinians became Palestinians according to international law, the Treaty of Lausanne, and the Citizenship Order of 1925.

Did they self identify with the new name? Good question. I think of Saigon. Saigon was the name for a long time. When the name was changed to Ho Chi Min City, how long did it take for the locals to identify themselves to the new name? I still think of it as Saigon because that is what it was called when I was there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> To the best of my knowledge, the Arab Palestinians never even tried to activate the Dispute Resolution Process.


What Dispute Resolution Process?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The domestic "Basic Law" is not an international accord.


Neither is the US Constitution.

What is your point? No state needs permission to form a government.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, the Arab Palestinians never even tried to activate the Dispute Resolution Process.
> 
> 
> 
> What Dispute Resolution Process?
Click to expand...


Someone's never read the Oslo Accords.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Yes, this is position that → the Oslo Accords "expired" → is the radicals way of justifying continuation of "armed struggle"


Oslo was not a valid agreement to begin with.

The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory. This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.

Similarly, the inhabitants of the occupied territory cannot renounce their rights under the Fourth Geneva Convention. This again is a safeguard. It prevents the occupying power from exploiting the vulnerability of the occupied territory by exerting undue pressure to undermine and weaken the protection which the law affords.

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/law9_final.pdf​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
Click to expand...


The Real (tm) Jews who lived in The territory in 1925 didn't want self-determine or a nation. They thought the place should remain under Arab control. That's what you've told me before.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Real (tm) Jews who lived in The territory in 1925 didn't want self-determine or a nation. They thought the place should remain under Arab control. That's what you've told me before.
Click to expand...

Well sure. What minority ethnicity / religious group wouldn't want to share the dhimmi status under Islamist rule?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Real (tm) Jews who lived in The territory in 1925 didn't want self-determine or a nation. They thought the place should remain under Arab control. That's what you've told me before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well sure. What minority ethnicity / religious group wouldn't want to share the dhimmi status under Islamist rule?
Click to expand...

The Ottoman Empire did away with the dhimmi status in the mid 19th century. Palestine has not considered bringing it back.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

There may be Arab Palestinians that follow this logic, but that was not the intent of by the Hague Regulation  (HR) and the Geneva Convention (GCIV) Set.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, this is position that → the Oslo Accords "expired" → is the radicals way of justifying continuation of "armed struggle"
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo was not a valid agreement to begin with.
> 
> The legal rights of the inhabitants of occupied territory cannot be curtailed by any agreement or other arrangement between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory. This is intended to prevent national authorities from being put under pressure to make concessions which might not be in the population’s best interests or weaken its legal rights.
> 
> Similarly, the inhabitants of the occupied territory cannot renounce their rights under the Fourth Geneva Convention. This again is a safeguard. It prevents the occupying power from exploiting the vulnerability of the occupied territory by exerting undue pressure to undermine and weaken the protection which the law affords.
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/law9_final.pdf​
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There will always be those that are embittered by outcomes they cannot agree with; and like the Arab Palestinian, will go to any lengths to impede progress.  The West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem are filled with those create obstacles for those that have actually achieved something that was greater than themselves.





​
Even though their collective accomplishments were, from the outset, politically entangled, they still brought enemies to the table to talk peace.  They were recognized for their efforts by the most renouned body on the planet.    The internationally community had an incite into what was prohibited.  That is more than any other Arab Palestinian has done since.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, the Arab Palestinians never even tried to activate the Dispute Resolution Process.
> 
> 
> 
> What Dispute Resolution Process?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I think I supplied the links to how the process brings it together.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


>


OMG, the three stooges. What were those people thinking? Then war monger Obama got one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I think I supplied the links to how the process brings it together.


Is that the one that Israel has to agree to before it can happen?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> There may be Arab Palestinians that follow this logic, but that was not the intent of by the Hague Regulation (HR) and the Geneva Convention (GCIV) Set.


Why do you say that?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore says that the Jewish people (the real ones) aren't eligible for self-determination because they don't want self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Real (tm) Jews who lived in The territory in 1925 didn't want self-determine or a nation. They thought the place should remain under Arab control. That's what you've told me before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well sure. What minority ethnicity / religious group wouldn't want to share the dhimmi status under Islamist rule?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire did away with the dhimmi status in the mid 19th century. Palestine has not considered bringing it back.
Click to expand...


Well actually, the Ottoman Empire effectively collapsed under the dead weight of its own irrelevance long before 1924. There was simply no mechanism for a failed "Empire" to enforce islamic supremacy. While you are loathe to admit it, Islamism has never taught equality as it relates to Moslems and the kuffar / non-moslems. Islamic ideology strikes a clear line of demarcation between those two entities. At no time in islamist history have Moslems equated non-Moslems as equals.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, I'm talking about the processes facilitate the mediation; not the agreement themselves.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I supplied the links to how the process brings it together.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the one that Israel has to agree to before it can happen?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The way International Law works today, Israel will not be able to fight and make a decisive victory.  The International Rules of Law are such that the insurgency will last fr another decade or more.  Israel is not allowed to set the condition such that the Arab Palestinians noloner have the will to fight.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Karma Nabulsi - Gaza One Year On - Lift the Siege*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Ottoman Empire did away with the dhimmi status in the mid 19th century. Palestine has not considered bringing it back.



Um.  That would be because there are NO Jews anywhere in "Palestine" under Arab control.


----------



## Sixties Fan

40 PA Arab minors and 27 adults illegally cross security fence, steal over 25 tons of produce from Jewish greenhouses.

(full article online)

PA Arabs steal over 25 tons of produce from Jewish greenhouses


----------



## Sixties Fan

The idea is to help Gaza move beyond one of its darkest chapters — the weeklong round of internecine fighting that ended with Hamas’ takeover of the territory in 2007. More than 700 Palestinians were killed in the infighting between the Fatah and Hamas factions, which was characterized by pitched gunbattles on Gaza’s streets and scenes of people being thrown off the rooftops of high-rise buildings.

(full article online)

To help unity deal, Gaza families get $50,000 payments to end blood feuds


----------



## Sixties Fan

Justice needed for American victims of Palestinian terrorism


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Part 3- Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Just to be clear, this response is in relationship to comment made in *Posting #7604* by P F Tinmore.   Its concerns the ability of the Occupying Power (State of Israel) to enter into treaty relationships with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated, → as it effects the legitimacy of the Oslo Accords.

Paul has copied a passage from the ICRC 2002 Lesson Plan (#9) and *Slide (#4) found on page 4-9 in this link*, on the topic of Belligerent Occupation. 

It should be noted that Slide #4 consists of three passages.  The first and the third passages have reference citations from both the Hague Regulation IV (HRIV) and the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There may be Arab Palestinians that follow this logic, but that was not the intent of by the Hague Regulation (HR) and the Geneva Convention (GCIV) Set.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE LOOKUP on SLIDE #4)*

Hague Regulation (HR),
•  Article:  43  ⇒  The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
•  Article:  46  ⇒  This Article deals with Family honour, private property, and religious convictions.​
Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV),
•  Article:    8  ⇒  This Article deals with the limitation that a Protected Person may not renounce protections under the GCIV.
•  Article:  13  ⇒  This Article secures  protections against adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, nationality, religion or political opinion.
•  Article:  27  ⇒  This Article deals with to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions, protections against rape, enforced prostitution, and indecent assault.  It also stipulates protections against prejudice relating to their state of health, age and sex.
•  Article:  33  ⇒  This Article deals with protections against a collective punishment for intimidation or of terrorism.  Pillage is prohibited.  Reprisals against protected persons.
•  Article:  34  ⇒  The taking of hostages is prohibited.
•  Article:  47  ⇒  Protected persons in occupied territory shall not be deprived of the benefits of the GCIV.
•  Article:  64  ⇒   Penal Laws and Legislation​
As you can see, none of the references cited have anything at all to do with the issue of agreements or other arrangements between the occupying power and the authorities of the occupied territory.  In regards to the question at hand, the excerpt is unsupported except by extrapolation.​*
(COMMENT)*

New Reference:  Pertaining to the Question
*Occupation and other forms of Administration of Foreign Territory (ICRC Meeting of Experts)
International Committee of the Red Cross © ICRC, March 2012 See Page 59*

There is little question that the Occupying Power (Israel) is prohibited, under Article 7 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, from entangling the people of the territory occupied (the Palestinians) in a treaty _(international agreement, arrangement or other obligation)_ with a third party state.   

But there is nothing in either Treaty Law, the Hague Regulation, or the Geneva Convention, that prohibits the Occupying Power from entering into a treaty with the sole representative of the territory being occupied.  In fact, most Peace Treaties of Major Conflicts (WWI - WWII etc).   A treaty is non--binding if it is procured by the coercion of its representative through threats of force, or the use of force; as stipulated in Article 51 of Treaty Law.

P F Tinmore's assertion that the paramount concern is the prevention in the exploitation of the population and citizenry of the occupied territory.  But at the conclusion of a conflict, there is always one side that is at a disadvantage to the other.  So, in nearly every case, the victor gains some reparation and restitution for the cost and damages of a conflict.  At the conclusion of WWI, Turkey had renounced all rights and title over the territories situated outside the frontiers Turkey.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*. 

Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins

Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
following PMW exposure that 
PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*

*Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*

*Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
*PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
*PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*

*PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Hollie, et al,

Boy I have to chuckle over this one.



Hollie said:


> Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*.
> 
> Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
> following PMW exposure that
> PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
> which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*
> 
> *Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
> 
> *Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
> *PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
> *PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*
> 
> *PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*


*(COMMENT)*

You know that among the Hostile Arab Palestinians, *Dalal Mughrabi* was a particularly nasty psychopath.

When you talk about state supported terrorist, it is on two levels.

•  One level is when the government and its policies provide support to the cause of a Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.

•  Another level is when specific NGOs provide funds and other financial assets or economic resources of persons who commit, or attempt to commit, terrorist acts or participate in or facilitate the commission of terrorist acts.

•  Member of the general population present a form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists.  The general population not only support a government that sponsors terrorism and viollence; but, they endorse forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage:

√  threat to the peace, 
√  breach of the peace, 
√  act of aggression;​
I've had a number of people tell me that a vast majority of the Arab Palestinians do not support endorse terrorism;  Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  But the reality is very different.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 22-Oct-17: The mass-murdering fugitive savage sends her apologies


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Boy I have to chuckle over this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*.
> 
> Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
> following PMW exposure that
> PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
> which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*
> 
> *Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
> 
> *Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
> *PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
> *PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*
> 
> *PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know that among the Hostile Arab Palestinians, *Dalal Mughrabi* was a particularly nasty psychopath.
> 
> When you talk about state supported terrorist, it is on two levels.
> 
> •  One level is when the government and its policies provide support to the cause of a Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> •  Another level is when specific NGOs provide funds and other financial assets or economic resources of persons who commit, or attempt to commit, terrorist acts or participate in or facilitate the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> •  Member of the general population present a form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists.  The general population not only support a government that sponsors terrorism and viollence; but, they endorse forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage:
> 
> √  threat to the peace,
> √  breach of the peace,
> √  act of aggression;​
> I've had a number of people tell me that a vast majority of the Arab Palestinians do not support endorse terrorism;  Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  But the reality is very different.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Wow, 8 terrorist cards.


----------



## Art__Allm

JoelT1 said:


> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!



Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.

If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Colonial settlers are not immigrants.


----------



## Shusha

I guess the Arabs better hurry up and assimilate into the indigenous Jewish people then. By adopting their language, their religion, their culture and their system of values and by becoming a part of their soviety and under their government.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Boy I have to chuckle over this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*.
> 
> Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
> following PMW exposure that
> PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
> which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*
> 
> *Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
> 
> *Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
> *PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
> *PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*
> 
> *PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know that among the Hostile Arab Palestinians, *Dalal Mughrabi* was a particularly nasty psychopath.
> 
> When you talk about state supported terrorist, it is on two levels.
> 
> •  One level is when the government and its policies provide support to the cause of a Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> •  Another level is when specific NGOs provide funds and other financial assets or economic resources of persons who commit, or attempt to commit, terrorist acts or participate in or facilitate the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> •  Member of the general population present a form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists.  The general population not only support a government that sponsors terrorism and viollence; but, they endorse forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage:
> 
> √  threat to the peace,
> √  breach of the peace,
> √  act of aggression;​
> I've had a number of people tell me that a vast majority of the Arab Palestinians do not support endorse terrorism;  Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  But the reality is very different.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, 8 terrorist cards.
Click to expand...



Would you clarify why you continually post the comments about terrorist cards?

Are we not allowed to talk about terrorism?  Is their no such thing as terrorism when conducted by Arabs in Israel?  Is terrorism not supported by the Arab Palestinian people and government?

What exactly do you mean by this?


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→ P F Tinmore, Art__Allm, JoelT1, _et al_,

No matter what you label the parties concerned, it doesn't effect the reality of today's territorial control --- or --- the political framework of the Middle East.  You can call them Martians if you want. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Colonial settlers are not immigrants.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It really don't matter at then end of the day, if YOU call them "Colonial Settlers" or "Immigrants."  It doesn't effect.   Whatever they are, you have to address their true impact; NOT what you want of them. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab Palestinians dealing with Zionism, and loving it:

A Growing Trend: Brave Muslim Zionists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Boy I have to chuckle over this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*.
> 
> Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
> following PMW exposure that
> PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
> which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*
> 
> *Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
> 
> *Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
> *PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
> *PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*
> 
> *PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know that among the Hostile Arab Palestinians, *Dalal Mughrabi* was a particularly nasty psychopath.
> 
> When you talk about state supported terrorist, it is on two levels.
> 
> •  One level is when the government and its policies provide support to the cause of a Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> •  Another level is when specific NGOs provide funds and other financial assets or economic resources of persons who commit, or attempt to commit, terrorist acts or participate in or facilitate the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> •  Member of the general population present a form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists.  The general population not only support a government that sponsors terrorism and viollence; but, they endorse forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage:
> 
> √  threat to the peace,
> √  breach of the peace,
> √  act of aggression;​
> I've had a number of people tell me that a vast majority of the Arab Palestinians do not support endorse terrorism;  Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  But the reality is very different.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, 8 terrorist cards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Would you clarify why you continually post the comments about terrorist cards?
> 
> Are we not allowed to talk about terrorism?  Is their no such thing as terrorism when conducted by Arabs in Israel?  Is terrorism not supported by the Arab Palestinian people and government?
> 
> What exactly do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

Terrorism is an Israeli name calling campaign.


----------



## Sixties Fan

What a Muslim American Learned from Zionists


----------



## Sixties Fan

Cleaning the hate: The story of a 'Zionist Muslim'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Boy I have to chuckle over this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*.
> 
> Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
> following PMW exposure that
> PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
> which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*
> 
> *Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
> 
> *Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
> *PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
> *PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*
> 
> *PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know that among the Hostile Arab Palestinians, *Dalal Mughrabi* was a particularly nasty psychopath.
> 
> When you talk about state supported terrorist, it is on two levels.
> 
> •  One level is when the government and its policies provide support to the cause of a Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> •  Another level is when specific NGOs provide funds and other financial assets or economic resources of persons who commit, or attempt to commit, terrorist acts or participate in or facilitate the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> •  Member of the general population present a form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists.  The general population not only support a government that sponsors terrorism and viollence; but, they endorse forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage:
> 
> √  threat to the peace,
> √  breach of the peace,
> √  act of aggression;​
> I've had a number of people tell me that a vast majority of the Arab Palestinians do not support endorse terrorism;  Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  But the reality is very different.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, 8 terrorist cards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Would you clarify why you continually post the comments about terrorist cards?
> 
> Are we not allowed to talk about terrorism?  Is their no such thing as terrorism when conducted by Arabs in Israel?  Is terrorism not supported by the Arab Palestinian people and government?
> 
> What exactly do you mean by this?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Are we not allowed to talk about terrorism?


Sure, let's talk about Israeli terrorism, or do you hold a double standard?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?
Click to expand...

Semitic refers to languages.

The Native Indigenous people of Ancient Canaan, are the Jews.

Palestinians are Arabs, indigenous of Arabia.

They speak a semitic language called Arabic, which is similar to Hebrew and other semitic languages like Aramaic, but they were never the native people of the land, even if some of them continued to live in the Region called by the Romans after 135 CE, as Syria Palestinia , after the Arab Muslim invasion during the 7th Century.   

Some Muslims and Arabs do mind, very much, that the Jews have achieved sovereignty over their own ancient homeland, in spite of the endless attacks on them perpetrated against them since 1920.
In spite of all the land they lost during those attacks, regardless of the fact that they had bought that land to live on, where Arabs did not live, nor wanted to live on.

Someday one can hope that you and others will afford the Jewish people the same rights you afford to every other people.

Or maybe you and others do not afford the same rights to many other people as well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Art__Allm, JoelT1, _et al_,
> 
> No matter what you label the parties concerned, it doesn't effect the reality of today's territorial control --- or --- the political framework of the Middle East.  You can call them Martians if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Colonial settlers are not immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It really don't matter at then end of the day, if YOU call them "Colonial Settlers" or "Immigrants."  It doesn't effect.   Whatever they are, you have to address their true impact; NOT what you want of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I know *you *can't tell the difference.

Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.

Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.

That is no small difference.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Terrorism is an Israeli name calling campaign.



Ah.  So its only purpose is to demonize?  Kinda like using terms like "foreign thieves", right?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.



But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.  

I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?

How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is an Israeli name calling campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  So its only purpose is to demonize?  Kinda like using terms like "foreign thieves", right?
Click to expand...

It is a standard colonial practice to demonize the natives.

I used the term foreign thieves because they are foreigners who steal.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is a standard colonial practice to demonize the natives.


Clearly, since you and the rest of Team P do it so often.



> I used the term foreign thieves because they are foreigners who steal.


Which generally suggests that you are permitted to demonize Israel because the demonization is essentially "true".  (Even though anyone can see that the Jewish people are obviously not foreigners on their ancestral and historical homelands).

So why can't we talk about terrorism, which is also true?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sure, let's talk about Israeli terrorism, or do you hold a double standard?



Baruch Goldstein was an evil man, with evil ideas, who committed an evil act.  The bombings of supermarkets by the Stern Gang were evil acts.  Elor Azaria committed an evil act.  

That should about cover it.  Your turn.


----------



## fanger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a standard colonial practice to demonize the natives.
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, since you and the rest of Team P do it so often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the term foreign thieves because they are foreigners who steal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which generally suggests that you are permitted to demonize Israel because the demonization is essentially "true".  (Even though anyone can see that the Jewish people are obviously not foreigners on their ancestral and historical homelands).
> 
> So why can't we talk about terrorism, which is also true?
Click to expand...

Well I take it you're jewish, does that make you a palestinian?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
Click to expand...

This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: Prickly discussion on the 'Right of Return' for Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.
Click to expand...

Eve Spangler says in the video that Phillistine is the "Arabic" word for Palestine.

Fails to tell any of the history from 1920 to 1948 and the endless ethnic cleansing of Jews from their lands over that period.

The "indigenous" people were expelled (in 1948)

Most level headed, indeed !

Discuss !


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.
Click to expand...


Gotta be kidding. Not one of the guests in the panel is in favor of Jewish rights, bot anti-Israel.

Q. Why do You think, ALL such discussions start at the Balfour Declaration, but not the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Preventing Families of Islamic State Terrorists Killed in Sinai from Erecting Gaza Mourning Tents


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: Prickly discussion on the 'Right of Return' for Palestinians


*Haaretz​has been carrying an interesting exchange on the Palestinian 'right of return' for refugees. The radical leftist Uri Avnery breezily ignores the rights of Jewish refugees in the discussion. While a rebuttal letter in response mentions Jewish refugees,​*
The two refugees are completely different and unrelated issues.

The Palestinians have claims against Israel.

The Jews have claims against Arab states. If the Jews start a BDS I will support it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


Where else in the world do people throw stones at foreign invading troops?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotta be kidding. Not one of the guests in the panel is in favor of Jewish rights, bot anti-Israel.
> 
> Q. Why do You think, ALL such discussions start at the Balfour Declaration, but not the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before that?
Click to expand...

What do you mean? They both spoke of equal rights for all.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: Prickly discussion on the 'Right of Return' for Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> *Haaretz
> has been carrying an interesting exchange on the Palestinian 'right of return' for refugees. The radical leftist Uri Avnery breezily ignores the rights of Jewish refugees in the discussion. While a rebuttal letter in response mentions Jewish refugees,*​The two refugees are completely different and unrelated issues.
> 
> The Palestinians have claims against Israel.
> 
> The Jews have claims against Arab states. If the Jews start a BDS I will support it.
Click to expand...

1)You do know that you do not mean what you said about supporting a Jewish BDS movement against the Palestinians.

2)  There were Jewish refugees from the Arab countries because the Arabs realized and hoped that if they flooded the new State of Israel with thousands of Jewish refugees, Israel would soon be destroyed.

3)  The Arabs of Mandate Palestine along with other Arab newly formed states, hoped to destroy Israel in 1948, but only managed to cause the Arab inhabitants of Israel to lose their homes for listening to their leaders who promised them a swift return in about two weeks, once Israel was destroyed and all Jews were killed or sent packing.


BUT, if you say that the two refugee issues are not related (an attempt to destroy Israel and the Jews) then.......


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotta be kidding. Not one of the guests in the panel is in favor of Jewish rights, bot anti-Israel.
> 
> Q. Why do You think, ALL such discussions start at the Balfour Declaration, but not the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? They both spoke of equal rights for all.
Click to expand...

Equal rights for all before the Balfour Declaration?
In Ottoman Empire?

Who were the parties to that equality, please tell.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The PLO mission in Colombia tweeted a Yasser Arafat quote: ‘Our goal is the end of Israel…We don’t want peace. We want war and victory’,” reported Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin
-----
“For the first time, the Palestinians spoke the truth, not in Arabic but in Spanish, and that such action must be taken seriously because, otherwise why do  they not accept the right of self-determination of Jews in their own state,”  Sermoneta said in an interview with Diario de las Americas.

Read more: Palestinian Diplomats Tweet Call For Destruction Of Israel


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

OK, let's bring just a bit of realism here → to the discussion.  

Since the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964, there have been more than more than a dozen (or so) organizations that have come and some of them which have gone:


al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (first Palestinian terrorist group to introduce female suicide bombers)
Asbat an-Ansar (Palestinians and associated with Osama bin Ladin)

Fatah Revolutionary Councl [AKA: Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)]
Hezbollah [AKA:  Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine]
Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)

Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC) 
Some of the organizations have become dormant, and others are attempting to re-brand themselves.  They were all once holding an extremist interpretation of Islam → that justifies violence against civilian targets to achieve political ends.  Many once strict adherence to Sharia (Islamic law); and some were more focused on the aim of driving the Israeli military and settlers from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem, and establishing a Palestinian state. 

Some would say that what makes them *what they are* is the intent to intimidate the Israeli population and stimulate domestic pressure → and → a campaign of coercion that will compelling the Jewish State to perform or ascend to their political aims...  It is an effort at seriously destabilize and damage or destroy the framework that constitutes the backbone of Israel; including, political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Boy I have to chuckle over this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. It would seem that the Belgian government has a bit of a problem with its welfare money gifted to a Death Cult being spent in celebration of islamic terrorists*.
> 
> Belgium and PA officials to meet in response to PMW report - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian and Belgian officials to meet on Wednesday
> following PMW exposure that
> PA named Belgian-funded school after terrorist
> which led Belgium to freeze funding of PA school construction*
> 
> *Belgium froze aid for PA school construction following PMW's exposure of the PA's renaming of a school built with Belgian money after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*
> 
> *Meeting between Belgian and PA officials is this Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, according to official PA daily *
> *PMW spoke with the Embassy of Belgium and urged that Belgium take this opportunity to create a more peace promoting environment in PA education. Belgium can use its leverage as donor to demand the PA change the names, not only of the Dalal Mughrabi School Belgium helped build, but also of the other 4 schools named after the same terrorist - and preferably all the 31 schools PMW has documented the PA has named after terrorists*
> *PA Ministry of Education expressed "great sorrow" over Belgium's freeze of its support to school construction*
> 
> *PA ministry noted that the reason Belgium suspended its support was over the naming of the school after Dalal Mughrabi but did not distance itself from the name or its policy of honoring terrorists. The PA also did not mention anything about the other schools named after terrorists or any plans to rename them*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know that among the Hostile Arab Palestinians, *Dalal Mughrabi* was a particularly nasty psychopath.
> 
> When you talk about state supported terrorist, it is on two levels.
> 
> •  One level is when the government and its policies provide support to the cause of a Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> •  Another level is when specific NGOs provide funds and other financial assets or economic resources of persons who commit, or attempt to commit, terrorist acts or participate in or facilitate the commission of terrorist acts.
> 
> •  Member of the general population present a form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists.  The general population not only support a government that sponsors terrorism and viollence; but, they endorse forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage:
> 
> √  threat to the peace,
> √  breach of the peace,
> √  act of aggression;​
> I've had a number of people tell me that a vast majority of the Arab Palestinians do not support endorse terrorism;  Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  But the reality is very different.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, 8 terrorist cards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Would you clarify why you continually post the comments about terrorist cards?
> 
> Are we not allowed to talk about terrorism?  Is their no such thing as terrorism when conducted by Arabs in Israel?  Is terrorism not supported by the Arab Palestinian people and government?
> 
> What exactly do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorism is an Israeli name calling campaign.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is true that, terrorism was a word seldom used but has been bandied around some much in recent years, that any of use have reduced its meaning to a "name calling campaign."  However, it is anything but a "name calling campaign."  Its meaning --- as I have stated in the above preface, is merely short-titled to the word "terrorism."  The actual sadistic or psychopathic acts, like those of the Arab Palestinian Honored Martyr *Dalal Mughrabi* who machine-gunned 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children *(how heroic of her)*.  But in the broader sense, the very distinguished Hostile Arab Palestinian Groups have done one or more of these acts:

These include:

attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.  Well, what I say to that is, I  have not heard of the Israelis lining up a dozen school children and gunning them down for no apparent reason; that take a very special kind of person.  You really have to like killing in order to do that; thinking of the Jewish as less than human.  And the fact that a significant number of Arab Palestinians support such action, ad actually justify such action as --- by any means necessary.  Yes it takes a special kind of person, a true psychopath, to do that and then openly honor it.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotta be kidding. Not one of the guests in the panel is in favor of Jewish rights, bot anti-Israel.
> 
> Q. Why do You think, ALL such discussions start at the Balfour Declaration, but not the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? They both spoke of equal rights for all.
Click to expand...


Gee whiz. I can’t identity a single instance of an Islamic majority nation furthering and promoting equal rights for all. 

Help us out here and provide some relevant examples.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Massad, another academic fraud, is lying. There are more Syrian Jews(115,000) in Israel than in the US or any other country. And how many 700,000 Jews who lived in Palestine before 1948 moved away? Unless Massad is saying that they don't count, and the only "Palestinian Jews" are the religious Jews in Jerusalem and Tzfat before 1900.

Furthermore, falafel is part of Iraqi cuisine. 

More importantly, it was brought to Israel by Yemeni Jews in the 1950s, where falafel is also popular, contrary to Massad's lie that it is simply not eaten in Yemen.

(full article online)

After complaints, some Arab papers remove article on "Jewish foods Arabs eat" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a third option.  A peoples return to a place.
> 
> I'm not convinced the distinctions between the three are as clear as you would like to pretend them to be.  How can you tell if people are "part of the fabric of society" or if they "pig the place"?
> 
> How would you be able to tell if people have successfully assimilated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the most level headed conversation of the issues I have ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotta be kidding. Not one of the guests in the panel is in favor of Jewish rights, bot anti-Israel.
> 
> Q. Why do You think, ALL such discussions start at the Balfour Declaration, but not the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? They both spoke of equal rights for all.
Click to expand...

Equal rights...more like polished lies

Palestinians having 2 Arab states on BOTH sides of the river is equality?
A will to create a 23rd Arab state at the expense of a tiny Jewish one is equality?


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?
Click to expand...


Which of the invading or settling Arab tribes assimilated with culture and language *of the place*?
Anywhere?? 
Arabs barely assimilated within themselves, they're still a tribal community underneath.Anywhere they settled, like Palestine, those divisions were kept up until these days, when Palestinian Arabs are electing a majority of tribal delegates over political ones. 

Do they even marry outside of their tribal clans?

On the other hand in Israel it's natural to see people of different backgrounds joining families.
Broadly saying Jews of Yemenite background marry Jews who came from Russia and Morocco.
And when they came to Palestine they became a part of a longstanding Jewish community that was already there, at all times.They assimilated, with a 3500 years old community. 

Arabs not so much, they renamed all the cities, forced their language and religion.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Art__Allm, JoelT1, _et al_,
> 
> No matter what you label the parties concerned, it doesn't effect the reality of today's territorial control --- or --- the political framework of the Middle East.  You can call them Martians if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs entered “palestine” during the British Mandate, called “palestine” from Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, N. Africa etc. Arafat was Egyptian.
> 
> But, they’re magically “palestinians’? Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is possible that some Arabs moved from Egypt to Palestine, but they did not have any intention to ethnically cleanse Palestine from their native Semites and create an exclusive state. They just assimilated with Palestinians and their descendants call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> If Zionists behaved like other migrants to Palestine, if they respected the native Semites and assimilated with them, instead of planning an ethnic cleansing, who would mind it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Colonial settlers are not immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It really don't matter at then end of the day, if YOU call them "Colonial Settlers" or "Immigrants."  It doesn't effect.   Whatever they are, you have to address their true impact; NOT what you want of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know *you *can't tell the difference.
> 
> Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
> 
> Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> That is no small difference.
Click to expand...


YES!! THANK YOU 

let me quote those clear simple words:

_"I know *you *can't tell the difference.
Immigrants move to a place to be a part of the fabric of that society.
Colonial settlers move to a place to take it over for themselves.

That is no small difference." - PF Tinmore






_
Tell us about assimilation when Arabs start speaking one of the Levantine languages in any other country, like they do in Israel...Hebrew. Assimilation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.


This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.

And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
Click to expand...

Jews recreating their own Nation on their own ancestral homeland is always effrontery to the Muslim Arabs.

Jews existing was always an effrontery to Muslim Arabs.

Every "piddly" thing Jews did before WWI, walk, talk, breath - was always met with brutal force against the Jews. Because they were Jews.

They are still Jews.  And must pay for it, according to very sick Muslims who follow Mohammad's ideology of a future Muslim world.....only.

Jews = Indigenous people of the Land of Israel
Kurds = Indigenous people of Kurdistan

Arabs =  invaders, settlers who keep attacking both people and trying to destroy them and take the land all to themselves.


----------



## Sixties Fan

She isn't calling for a Palestinian state on the territories. She is saying that the state whose parliament she is a member of is illegitimate altogether and should be replaced with another Arab state.

(full article online)

Arab MK Hanin Zoabi essentially calls for Israel to be destroyed ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

OK  --- You are making two separate points here.

•  Plays a deck of terrorist cards.
•  Israel's settler colonial project.​


P F Tinmore said:


> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.


*(COMMENT)*

•  Plays a deck of terrorist cards.https://unmik.unmissions.org/secretary-general-remarks-g7-working-session-terrorism
(_UN SecGen's remarks on terrorism._)
√  Violent extremism is a fundamental threat to all countries and people. 
√  Missiles may kill terrorists.  But I am convinced that good governance is what will kill terrorism.​The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) attempt to camouflage and conceal the injustice and moral deviance of their continued struggle outside the boundaries to the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; as well as the Disputed resolution process.  The HoAP believe that they have some specially dispensation to continue the Israeli War of Independence in which the Egyptians and the Jordanians have settled by Peace Treaty.

The HoAP also believe that they have the right to take by force that territory _(in fact any territory) _they have determined is theirs.  Even territory abandoned into the hands of the Occupying Force; well before the PLO was established, as the sole representative of the Palestinians, pressed any claim.​•  Israel's settler colonial project.
√  Israel has never been the colonial proxy of any Colonial Power.
√  Israel has never established a colonial enclave.
√  Israel HAS NOT used an armed force to deprive the Palestinians of their right to self-determination, freedom and independence. 
√  Israel HAS NOT disrupted the territorial Integrity of any Sovereign Palestinian Territory.

The HoAP believe that if they circulate the "colonialization" story long enough, everyone will believe that Israel is a colonial proxy on behalf of an invisible of a phantom power, they will garner the greater sympathy vote because of the misunderstanding of the difference between a colonial settlement and an independent colony.​Without regard to the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States, the HoAP have HAVE NOT attempted to seriously establish contact to begin the Dispute Resolution process.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) attempt to camouflage and conceal the injustice and moral deviance of their continued struggle outside the boundaries to the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; as well as the Disputed resolution process.


Such as?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The HoAP also believe that they have the right to take by force that territory _(in fact any territory) _they have determined is theirs.


Only that inside their international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP also believe that they have the right to take by force that territory _(in fact any territory) _they have determined is theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> Only that inside their international borders.
Click to expand...

What are the international borders of the waqf that Hamas has declared belongs as an entitlement to Moslems?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The HoAP believe that if they circulate the "colonialization" story long enough, everyone will believe that Israel is a colonial proxy on behalf of an invisible of a phantom power, they will garner the greater sympathy vote because of the misunderstanding of the difference between a colonial settlement and an independent colony.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rebab Nazzal*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Raneem Nabulsi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had performed by Arab-Moslem Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Just by way of a quick reminder: Two close relatives of Bassem Tamimi are convicted terrorist murderers, and one of them – Bassem Tamimi’s nephew Nizar – has married his cousin Ahlam Tamimi, the convicted mastermind and facilitator of the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria bombing that killed 15 people, including 7 children, and left some 130 injured. Ahlam Tamimi has repeatedly told interviewers how proud she is of the massacre she helped perpetrate, and prominent members of the Tamimi clan have repeatedly emphasized in interviews and on social media how much admiration and love their murderous relatives enjoy.

(full article online)

Issa Amro is no "Palestinian Gandhi"


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Let's see if I both in one shot; and not an evasive "yes."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) attempt to camouflage and conceal the injustice and moral deviance of their continued struggle outside the boundaries to the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; as well as the Disputed resolution process.
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP also believe that they have the right to take by force that territory _(in fact any territory) _they have determined is theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> Only that inside their international borders.
Click to expand...


*(COMMENT)* 

The current voice that claims to speak for the Arab Palestinians is:



Logo is link → SoP/PLO-NAD



			
				State of Palestine - Negotiation Affairs said:
			
		

> Historic Palestine (pre-1948) encompasses all of Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem. In 1922, historic Palestine was placed under a British Mandate by the League of Nations.
> In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the partitioning of Palestine, against the wishes of the majority of our inhabitants. The Partition Plan allocated 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state. At the time, the Jewish population living in Palestine represented only one third of the total population and owned less than seven percent of the land.




*(COMMENT)*

In every piece of good propaganda, there are splinters of truth framed in a misdirection.

*√  *Carefully worded, it the first bullet says the pre-1948 territory was "encompasses all of Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem" (TRUE as far as it goes.)  But then next it says "In 1922, historic Palestine was placed under a British Mandate by the League of Nations."  (Close enough to the TRUTH)  But is misleading to think that the Mandate consisted only of "Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem."  This little misdirection becomes important when the discussion shits to percentages.  But in point of fact Trans-Jordan was included into the Mandate.



			
				Paragraph 2 said:
			
		

> His Britannic Majesty is the Mandatory for Transjordan to which the terms of the mandate for Palestine, with the exception of the provisions dealing with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people, are applicable.  (*SOURCE:*  REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION  UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE 1924)






			
				State of Palestine - Negotiation Affairs said:
			
		

> During the June 1967 war, Israel militarily occupied the remaining 22 percent of historic Palestine, comprising the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, No Man’s Land, and the Gaza Strip. Only two weeks after the war’s end, Israel unilaterally annexed East Jerusalem, applying Israeli law to the Palestinian half of the city. Within one month, Israel began building illegal settlements in the occupied State of Palestine, in direct violation of international law. The international community immediately rejected Israel’s illegal annexation of the occupied Palestinian territory and continues to do so today. Up to 2014, Israel has illegally transferred more than 600,000 settlers into the occupied State of Palestine. More than 200,000 settler of those are residing illegally in East Jerusalem.


*(COMMENT)*

Let's get the percentages understood here.

•  Before the 1948 Independence of Israel:

≈ 77% Of the Mandate was allocated to be an Arab autonomous government of Trans-Jordan
≈ 23% The remainder of the territory yet to be allocated.​
•  After the 1948 War of Independence for Israel:

≈ 12.6% of the original Mandate Territory was apportioned and claimed independent by Israel.
≈  10.4% of the original Mandate Territory remained unallocate/unapportioned.  This unallocate portion of the original Mandate included the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem.​


			
				State of Palestine - Negotiation Affairs said:
			
		

> Since 2002, Israel has been constructing its Wall in the occupied State of Palestine, grabbing more Palestinian land in an attempt to unilaterally set its borders. Israel has de-facto annexed land that falls between the 1967 border and the Wall by severely restricting Palestinian access to these areas while at the same time facilitating Israeli access to them. In October 2003, Israel declared as “closed zones” all of the land that falls between the 1967 border and the Wall in the northern West Bank, requiring that Palestinian obtain hard-to-come-by Israeli permits to continue to live on, or otherwise access, their land in these areas.


*(COMMENT)*

√  "Wall in the occupied State of Palestine, grabbing more Palestinian land in an attempt to unilaterally set its borders."
⇒  The construct of the Security Barrier that would run near the “Green Line” between Israel and the West Bank was an attempt to prevent Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) from infiltrating Israel and conducting terrorist operations intentionally directed against Israeli citizens.
⇒ Any sovereign state (including Israel) has - not simply the right to protect itself, but a duty to protect its citizens from harm.
⇒ Any sovereign state (including Israel) has a right to control its borders.  It is not a matter of allowing (or not allowing) Arab Palestinians access to traverse the border (in either direction).  It is a matter of controlling the border to minimize the threat posed by HoAP.
⇒  The "Green Line" was not a 1967 Border between Israel and the State of Palestine.  It was an Armistice Line between the forces of Israel and Jordan.  While many people make reference to the former Armistice Line as a 1967 Border, that Armistice Line became meaningless in 1967 when Jordanian Forces were routed back across the Jordan River.  The Armistice Line, pursuant to Article XII(2) of the General Armistice Agreement, dissolved when:  "a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved" which occurred with the Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan And The State of Israel October 26, 1994.  The treaty established the "International Boundary" between Jordan and Israel in Article 3 (and Annex I).  
⇒  The West Bank and Jerusalem were abandoned into the hands of Israel (terra nullius) in August 1988, after Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank.​*(IF -THEN STATEMENT)*
√  Now the PLO-NAD contends:  "The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  
⇒  *IF* that is true, *THEN* there is no border since the Armistice Agreement says n Article XII:
2. This Agreement, having been negotiated and concluded in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948 calling for the establishment of an armistice in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved except as provided in paragraph 3 of this article.​√  Now the PLO-NAD contends: "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967."
⇒  I know that many of you heard this, over and over again.  That is not what the basic prohibition says:



			
				UNSC Resolution A/RES/242 said:
			
		

> Emphasizing: the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,
> 
> 
> 
> Various Sources as Annoted said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 3: “_All Members shall settle *their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”_
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 4: “_All Members shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”_
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations (1970) Principle 1: “_Every State has the duty to *refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force *constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations *and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues._“
Click to expand...

Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian.  Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians.  In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian. Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians. In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.


The West Bank is Palestinian territory that was occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967.

Now, how Jordan end up occupying Palestinian land when they were not at war has always been a mystery to me.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Let's see if I both in one shot; and not an evasive "yes."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) attempt to camouflage and conceal the injustice and moral deviance of their continued struggle outside the boundaries to the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; as well as the Disputed resolution process.
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP also believe that they have the right to take by force that territory _(in fact any territory) _they have determined is theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only that inside their international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The current voice that claims to speak for the Arab Palestinians is:
> 
> 
> 
> Logo is link → SoP/PLO-NAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine - Negotiation Affairs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Historic Palestine (pre-1948) encompasses all of Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem. In 1922, historic Palestine was placed under a British Mandate by the League of Nations.
> In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the partitioning of Palestine, against the wishes of the majority of our inhabitants. The Partition Plan allocated 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state. At the time, the Jewish population living in Palestine represented only one third of the total population and owned less than seven percent of the land.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In every piece of good propaganda, there are splinters of truth framed in a misdirection.
> 
> *√  *Carefully worded, it the first bullet says the pre-1948 territory was "encompasses all of Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem" (TRUE as far as it goes.)  But then next it says "In 1922, historic Palestine was placed under a British Mandate by the League of Nations."  (Close enough to the TRUTH)  But is misleading to think that the Mandate consisted only of "Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem."  This little misdirection becomes important when the discussion shits to percentages.  But in point of fact Trans-Jordan was included into the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paragraph 2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His Britannic Majesty is the Mandatory for Transjordan to which the terms of the mandate for Palestine, with the exception of the provisions dealing with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people, are applicable.  (*SOURCE:*  REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION  UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE 1924)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine - Negotiation Affairs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the June 1967 war, Israel militarily occupied the remaining 22 percent of historic Palestine, comprising the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, No Man’s Land, and the Gaza Strip. Only two weeks after the war’s end, Israel unilaterally annexed East Jerusalem, applying Israeli law to the Palestinian half of the city. Within one month, Israel began building illegal settlements in the occupied State of Palestine, in direct violation of international law. The international community immediately rejected Israel’s illegal annexation of the occupied Palestinian territory and continues to do so today. Up to 2014, Israel has illegally transferred more than 600,000 settlers into the occupied State of Palestine. More than 200,000 settler of those are residing illegally in East Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's get the percentages understood here.
> 
> •  Before the 1948 Independence of Israel:
> 
> ≈ 77% Of the Mandate was allocated to be an Arab autonomous government of Trans-Jordan
> ≈ 23% The remainder of the territory yet to be allocated.​•  After the 1948 War of Independence for Israel:
> 
> ≈ 12.6% of the original Mandate Territory was apportioned and claimed independent by Israel.
> ≈  10.4% of the original Mandate Territory remained unallocate/unapportioned.  This unallocate portion of the original Mandate included the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem.​
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine - Negotiation Affairs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since 2002, Israel has been constructing its Wall in the occupied State of Palestine, grabbing more Palestinian land in an attempt to unilaterally set its borders. Israel has de-facto annexed land that falls between the 1967 border and the Wall by severely restricting Palestinian access to these areas while at the same time facilitating Israeli access to them. In October 2003, Israel declared as “closed zones” all of the land that falls between the 1967 border and the Wall in the northern West Bank, requiring that Palestinian obtain hard-to-come-by Israeli permits to continue to live on, or otherwise access, their land in these areas.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> √  "Wall in the occupied State of Palestine, grabbing more Palestinian land in an attempt to unilaterally set its borders."
> ⇒  The construct of the Security Barrier that would run near the “Green Line” between Israel and the West Bank was an attempt to prevent Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) from infiltrating Israel and conducting terrorist operations intentionally directed against Israeli citizens.
> ⇒ Any sovereign state (including Israel) has - not simply the right to protect itself, but a duty to protect its citizens from harm.
> ⇒ Any sovereign state (including Israel) has a right to control its borders.  It is not a matter of allowing (or not allowing) Arab Palestinians access to traverse the border (in either direction).  It is a matter of controlling the border to minimize the threat posed by HoAP.
> ⇒  The "Green Line" was not a 1967 Border between Israel and the State of Palestine.  It was an Armistice Line between the forces of Israel and Jordan.  While many people make reference to the former Armistice Line as a 1967 Border, that Armistice Line became meaningless in 1967 when Jordanian Forces were routed back across the Jordan River.  The Armistice Line, pursuant to Article XII(2) of the General Armistice Agreement, dissolved when:  "a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved" which occurred with the Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan And The State of Israel October 26, 1994.  The treaty established the "International Boundary" between Jordan and Israel in Article 3 (and Annex I).
> ⇒  The West Bank and Jerusalem were abandoned into the hands of Israel (terra nullius) in August 1988, after Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank.​*(IF -THEN STATEMENT)*
> √  Now the PLO-NAD contends:  "The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."
> ⇒  *IF* that is true, *THEN* there is no border since the Armistice Agreement says n Article XII:
> 2. This Agreement, having been negotiated and concluded in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948 calling for the establishment of an armistice in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved except as provided in paragraph 3 of this article.​√  Now the PLO-NAD contends: "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967."
> ⇒  I know that many of you heard this, over and over again.  That is not what the basic prohibition says:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSC Resolution A/RES/242 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emphasizing: the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,
> 
> 
> 
> Various Sources as Annoted said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 3: “_All Members shall settle *their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”_
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 4: “_All Members shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”_
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations (1970) Principle 1: “_Every State has the duty to *refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force *constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations *and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues._“
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian.  Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians.  In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*.


That is how Israel acquired all of its territory in 1948.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Channel 20 _also reported that representatives of the Jewish community in Hevron's Tel Rumeida neighborhood, the number of attacks by Arabs against Jews is increasing. The main person responsible for the incitement to violence is Fatah member Tayssir Abu Sneinah, the newly-elected mayor of Hevron.

Abu Sneinah is a convicted terrorist who murdered 6 people in a 1980 terror attack. and was handed a life sentence. He was freed in the prisoner swaps of the 1980s.

(full article online)

'They threw a rock at your head'


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
Click to expand...


False, it's a lie You keep parroting. 

Arab aggression, pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Jews occurred long before any Zionist ever settles in the land.  

Q. How can there be any serious and sincere debate, when such things are totally ignored by the pro-Arab side?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, it's a lie You keep parroting.
> 
> Arab aggression, pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Jews occurred long before any Zionist ever settles in the land.
> 
> Q. How can there be any serious and sincere debate, when such things are totally ignored by the pro-Arab side?
Click to expand...

There were a few incidents posted, many years apart with no context given.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Raneem Nabulsi*
> 
> **



Palestinians who are _"natives"_:  

*Bushnak* (Arabic: بشناق‎‎, meaning "Bosnian" or "Bosniak", also transliterated *Bushnaq*, *Boshnak* and *Bouchnak*) is a surname common among Palestinians who are of Bosnian origin.[1][2][3] Those sharing this surname are the descendants of Bosnian Muslims apprehensive of living under Christian rule after the Austro-Hungarian occupation of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1878, who emigrated to Palestine within the Ottoman empire.

Some Bosnian movement to Palestine occurred when Bosnian Muslim soldiers were brought to Palestine in the late 1800s to provide reinforcements for the Ottoman army.[1][3]

More substantial movement occurred after 1878, when the Austro-Hungarian empire, ruled by the House of Habsburg, occupied Bosnia. Bosnian Muslim emigration continued through this period, escalating after the Austro-Hungarian's 1908 annexation of Bosnia.....

Bushnak - Wikipedia


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, it's a lie You keep parroting.
> 
> Arab aggression, pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Jews occurred long before any Zionist ever settles in the land.
> 
> Q. How can there be any serious and sincere debate, when such things are totally ignored by the pro-Arab side?
Click to expand...


Here is a perfect article explaining the haters of Jews' mindset:

Rising to the Bait (Divest This!) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, it's a lie You keep parroting.
> 
> Arab aggression, pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Jews occurred long before any Zionist ever settles in the land.
> 
> Q. How can there be any serious and sincere debate, when such things are totally ignored by the pro-Arab side?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were a few incidents posted, many years apart with no context given.
Click to expand...


There were given at least 6-7 Arab pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine prior to Zionism.
There were only some thousands of Jew to massacre...

They spared some Jews at a time, to enjoy some later.
These are Palestinian Arabs.

Q. Which of the Arab pogroms do You want to discuss 1st?
 Safed, Tiberias, Jerusalem, Hebron, Damascus?


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Netanyahu compared to Hitler by PA TV hosts  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, it's a lie You keep parroting.
> 
> Arab aggression, pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Jews occurred long before any Zionist ever settles in the land.
> 
> Q. How can there be any serious and sincere debate, when such things are totally ignored by the pro-Arab side?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were a few incidents posted, many years apart with no context given.
Click to expand...


If You want context , look at what happened in close districts when the new Ottoman reforms imposed equality between Muslims, Jews and Christians, in taxation and status.
Look exclusively at the Arab response towards Jews and Christians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
> attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
> kidnapping or hostage taking and murder;
> causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
> seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
> manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons and explosives;
> participating in the activities, including by supplying information or material resources, or by funding its activities in any way, with knowledge of the fact that such participation will contribute to the criminal activities of the group.
> Yes, some still trivialize the actions of these groups, saying that the Israelis have done much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> This defines Israel in spades. Then Israel plays a deck of terrorist cards on every piddly little thing the Palestinians do.
> 
> And, you have to remember that Israel's settler colonial project was the initial aggression in this conflict. None of this would have happened without that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, it's a lie You keep parroting.
> 
> Arab aggression, pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Jews occurred long before any Zionist ever settles in the land.
> 
> Q. How can there be any serious and sincere debate, when such things are totally ignored by the pro-Arab side?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were a few incidents posted, many years apart with no context given.
Click to expand...

Professor Tinmore.
PHD and Masters in   - Denializm


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Muslims supporting Muslims against Jewish Sovereignty ]

Deputy Hamas Chief: Iran to continue support for 'resistance'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The following are some of the main points of the document. This analysis is based on Hamas' own English translation:

• Hamas’ affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood has been omitted, but the document is still Islamic religious in nature. It mentions Allah several times and although there is no reference in the document to “the Land of Palestine” as an Islamic Waqf (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law), as in the Hamas’ charter, the new document opens by stating that “Palestine is a land whose status has been elevated by Islam…” It goes on to say that Hamas’ “frame of reference is Islam, which determines its principles, objectives and means,” and that “Palestine is an Arab Islamic land… a blessed sacred land…” The document further dedicates two whole paragraphs in praise of Islam, stating among other things that “Hamas believes that the message of Islam upholds the values of truth, justice, freedom and dignity…”

• Hamas still does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and describes “Palestine” as reaching “from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea,” while “the establishment of ‘Israel’ is entirely illegal.” The document emphasizes that "there is no compromise on any part of Palestine under any conditions,” and that “no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded.”

• The document mentions a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders only as “a national, agreed-upon, and joint formula” and emphasizes that “Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine.”

(full article online)

Hamas Document of Principles and General Policies (2017) - Official Palestinian charters | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, look.  The Palestinian Arabs do recognize that they are a part of the  ARAB NATION and their struggle is not just against Israel and Jews.  Colonialism and Imperialism = Europe.  But it should also mean the Colonial and Empirial advances of the Muslim Empire.  They have had such a good one for 1400 years.  No end in sight.  Who will end that colonialism on the Muslim side? ]

The Movement's Essential Principles
Article (1) Palestine is part of the Arab World, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab Nation, and their struggle is part of its struggle. 
Article (2) The Palestinian people have an independent identity. They are the sole authority that decides their own destiny, and they have complete sovereignty on all their lands. 
Article (3) The Palestinian Revolution plays a leading role in liberating Palestine. 
Article (4) The Palestinian struggle is part and parcel of the world-wide struggle against Zionism, colonialism and international imperialism. 
Article (5) Liberating Palestine is a national obligation which necessities the materialistic and human support of the Arab Nation. 
Article (6) UN projects, accords and resolutions, or those of any individual which undermine the Palestinian people's right in their homeland are illegal and rejected.
---------
-------------
Article (12) Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence. 
Article (13) Establishing an independent democratic state with complete sovereignty on all Palestinian lands, and Jerusalem is its capital city, and protecting the citizens' legal and equal rights without any racial or religious discrimination. 
Article (14) Setting up a progressive society that warrants people's rights and their public freedom. 
Article (15) Active participation in achieving the Arab Nation's goals in liberation and building an independent, progressive and united Arab society. 
Article (16) Backing up all oppressed people in their struggle for liberation and self-determination in order to build a just, international peace. 
Method
Article (17) Armed public revolution is the inevitable method to liberating Palestine. 
Article (18) Entire dependence on the Palestinian people which is the pedestal forefront and on the Arab Nation as a partner in the fight, and realising actual interaction between the Arab Nation and the Palestinian people by involving the Arab people in the fight through a united Arab front. 
Article (19) Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People's armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.

(full article online)

Fatah Charter - Official Palestinian charters | PMW


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I would like to clarify some points




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION to your SOURCE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> √  Now the PLO-NAD contends: "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967." ※→ SoP/PLO-NAD was the source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is how Israel acquired all of its territory in 1948.
Click to expand...

What I said:


			
				VARIOUS SOURCE AS ANNOTATED said:
			
		

> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 3: “_All Members shall settle *their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”_
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 4: “_All Members shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”_
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations (1970) Principle 1: “_Every State has the duty to *refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force *constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations *and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues._“




*(COMMENT)*
You will notice that it does not prohibit the occupation of defensive positions acquire under Article 51.  You are quoting, as do a number of people, an "emphasis line" from UNSC Resolution 242:  "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war."  Again, that is an emphasis line, not law; not even the historical practice of the ways things have been done.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian. Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians. In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank is Palestinian territory that was occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967.
> 
> Now, how Jordan end up occupying Palestinian land when they were not at war has always been a mystery to me.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

At the time of the Armistice (1949), Jordan - the Arab Power over the region, encompassed that area we call the West Bank.  It was s stipulated in the Armistice.

Jordan only occupied the territory for a very short time.  The Jordanian Parliament, Arabs all, equal numbers of as far as Palestinian representation was concerned, --- unanimously voted to Annex the West Bank.  It does not matter what the Arab League say, or what the UN says; recognition by other countries is not required, and a lack of recognition did NOT trump Self-Determination.  The Arab Palestinians do what they want to do.  After April 1950, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.  AND, the Arab Palestinians cannot come back a half century latter and call a "do over" just because they don't like the outcome and cannot take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

Anyway, that is how, in 1967, the IDF --- while in pursuit of Jordanian Forces took effective control of the West Bank --- which was Sovereign Jordanian territory.  It was not Palestinian territory; any more than the Crimea is Ukrainian territory.  It is the way things are done, and have been done for hundreds of years.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I would like to clarify some points
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION to your SOURCE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> √  Now the PLO-NAD contends: "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967." ※→ SoP/PLO-NAD was the source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is how Israel acquired all of its territory in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I said:
> 
> 
> 
> VARIOUS SOURCE AS ANNOTATED said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 3: “_All Members shall settle *their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”_
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 4: “_All Members shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”_
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations (1970) Principle 1: “_Every State has the duty to *refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force *constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations *and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues._“
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> You will notice that it does not prohibit the occupation of defensive positions acquire under Article 51.  You are quoting, as do a number of people, an "emphasis line" from UNSC Resolution 242:  "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war."  Again, that is an emphasis line, not law; not even the historical practice of the ways things have been done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian. Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians. In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West Bank is Palestinian territory that was occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967.
> 
> Now, how Jordan end up occupying Palestinian land when they were not at war has always been a mystery to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the time of the Armistice (1949), Jordan - the Arab Power over the region, encompassed that area we call the West Bank.  It was s stipulated in the Armistice.
> 
> Jordan only occupied the territory for a very short time.  The Jordanian Parliament, Arabs all, equal numbers of as far as Palestinian representation was concerned, --- unanimously voted to Annex the West Bank.  It does not matter what the Arab League say, or what the UN says; recognition by other countries is not required, and a lack of recognition did NOT trump Self-Determination.  The Arab Palestinians do what they want to do.  After April 1950, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.  AND, the Arab Palestinians cannot come back a half century latter and call a "do over" just because they don't like the outcome and cannot take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
> 
> Anyway, that is how, in 1967, the IDF --- while in pursuit of Jordanian Forces took effective control of the West Bank --- which was Sovereign Jordanian territory.  It was not Palestinian territory; any more than the Crimea is Ukrainian territory.  It is the way things are done, and have been done for hundreds of years.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either. Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I would like to clarify some points
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION to your SOURCE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> √  Now the PLO-NAD contends: "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967." ※→ SoP/PLO-NAD was the source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is how Israel acquired all of its territory in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I said:
> 
> 
> 
> VARIOUS SOURCE AS ANNOTATED said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 3: “_All Members shall settle *their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”_
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 4: “_All Members shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”_
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations (1970) Principle 1: “_Every State has the duty to *refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force *constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations *and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues._“
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> You will notice that it does not prohibit the occupation of defensive positions acquire under Article 51.  You are quoting, as do a number of people, an "emphasis line" from UNSC Resolution 242:  "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war."  Again, that is an emphasis line, not law; not even the historical practice of the ways things have been done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian. Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians. In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West Bank is Palestinian territory that was occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967.
> 
> Now, how Jordan end up occupying Palestinian land when they were not at war has always been a mystery to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the time of the Armistice (1949), Jordan - the Arab Power over the region, encompassed that area we call the West Bank.  It was s stipulated in the Armistice.
> 
> Jordan only occupied the territory for a very short time.  The Jordanian Parliament, Arabs all, equal numbers of as far as Palestinian representation was concerned, --- unanimously voted to Annex the West Bank.  It does not matter what the Arab League say, or what the UN says; recognition by other countries is not required, and a lack of recognition did NOT trump Self-Determination.  The Arab Palestinians do what they want to do.  After April 1950, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.  AND, the Arab Palestinians cannot come back a half century latter and call a "do over" just because they don't like the outcome and cannot take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
> 
> Anyway, that is how, in 1967, the IDF --- while in pursuit of Jordanian Forces took effective control of the West Bank --- which was Sovereign Jordanian territory.  It was not Palestinian territory; any more than the Crimea is Ukrainian territory.  It is the way things are done, and have been done for hundreds of years.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either. Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?
Click to expand...

Have you found any document or article  about the Arab Palestinians going against the decision in 1922 to give TransJordan to the Hashemites (not Jordan until 1950) ?

Have you found any document or article by the Palestinian Arabs going against the Hashemites deciding to annex Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem to what was now Jordan?

What part of the world think between 1920 and 1948, that the Land of Israel was Palestinian Land?
Which countries, and what were their reasons for thinking that way?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iran's goal in this move? For Hamas to maintain and enhance its preparation for war against Israel.


Iran's message to Hamas: If you want us to continue providing you with financial and military aid, you must continue to hold on to your weapons and reject demands to disarm.


Iran wants Hamas to retain its security control over the Gaza Strip so that the Iranians can hold onto another power base in the Middle East, as it does with Hezbollah in Lebanon.

(full article online)

The Iran-Hamas Plan to Destroy Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I would like to clarify some points
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION to your SOURCE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> √  Now the PLO-NAD contends: "A basic principle of international law is that *no state may acquire territory by force*. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967." ※→ SoP/PLO-NAD was the source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is how Israel acquired all of its territory in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I said:
> 
> 
> 
> VARIOUS SOURCE AS ANNOTATED said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 3: “_All Members shall settle *their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”_
> UN Charter (1945) Article 2: Paragraph 4: “_All Members shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”_
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations (1970) Principle 1: “_Every State has the duty to *refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force *constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations *and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues._“
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> You will notice that it does not prohibit the occupation of defensive positions acquire under Article 51.  You are quoting, as do a number of people, an "emphasis line" from UNSC Resolution 242:  "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war."  Again, that is an emphasis line, not law; not even the historical practice of the ways things have been done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not acquire any territory by force from the Arab Palestinian. Israel took effective control over the territory from the Jordanians. In 1988, Israel maintained control after Jordan abandoned the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West Bank is Palestinian territory that was occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967.
> 
> Now, how Jordan end up occupying Palestinian land when they were not at war has always been a mystery to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the time of the Armistice (1949), Jordan - the Arab Power over the region, encompassed that area we call the West Bank.  It was s stipulated in the Armistice.
> 
> Jordan only occupied the territory for a very short time.  The Jordanian Parliament, Arabs all, equal numbers of as far as Palestinian representation was concerned, --- unanimously voted to Annex the West Bank.  It does not matter what the Arab League say, or what the UN says; recognition by other countries is not required, and a lack of recognition did NOT trump Self-Determination.  The Arab Palestinians do what they want to do.  After April 1950, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.  AND, the Arab Palestinians cannot come back a half century latter and call a "do over" just because they don't like the outcome and cannot take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
> 
> Anyway, that is how, in 1967, the IDF --- while in pursuit of Jordanian Forces took effective control of the West Bank --- which was Sovereign Jordanian territory.  It was not Palestinian territory; any more than the Crimea is Ukrainian territory.  It is the way things are done, and have been done for hundreds of years.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either. Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you found any document or article  about the Arab Palestinians going against the decision in 1922 to give TransJordan to the Hashemites (not Jordan until 1950) ?
> 
> Have you found any document or article by the Palestinian Arabs going against the Hashemites deciding to annex Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem to what was now Jordan?
> 
> What part of the world think between 1920 and 1948, that the Land of Israel was Palestinian Land?
> Which countries, and what were their reasons for thinking that way?
Click to expand...

Only Britain and Pakistan recognized Jordan's annexation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either. Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?



The Arabs in Palestine were never sovereign over any territory to cede.  You could argue (and you do) that they wanted sovereignty.  You could argue (and you do) that they had some sort of right to sovereignty.  But arguing that they HAD actual sovereignty is simply incorrect.  

The Arab Palestinians never had a government which had any sovereign control over any part of the territory (until Oslo).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either. Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine were never sovereign over any territory to cede.  You could argue (and you do) that they wanted sovereignty.  You could argue (and you do) that they had some sort of right to sovereignty.  But arguing that they HAD actual sovereignty is simply incorrect.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians never had a government which had any sovereign control over any part of the territory (until Oslo).
Click to expand...

Indeed, I think Palestine is the only country in the world that has been occupied its whole life.

That does not negate their rights though,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either. Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine were never sovereign over any territory to cede.  You could argue (and you do) that they wanted sovereignty.  You could argue (and you do) that they had some sort of right to sovereignty.  But arguing that they HAD actual sovereignty is simply incorrect.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians never had a government which had any sovereign control over any part of the territory (until Oslo).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, I think Palestine is the only country in the world that has been occupied its whole life.
> 
> That does not negate their rights though,
Click to expand...


Pal’istan was never a country. 

Terms and definitions have meaning. 

That does not negate your right to promote falsehoods, though.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



I was looking to counter with a YouTube video regarding Israeli-Arab rights in Gaza.

Nothing to be found. 

It seems Gaza is another of those Islamic majority locations made _Judenrein_ by _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_™


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Another Arab-Moslem Death Cultist and let’s get on with the Jew killing.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

because of my Peaceful Inner Struggler™ Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, this is why the Arab Palestinians don't want to use the processes for these issues:

*The UN Dispute Tribunal*
When no resolution through informal means can be arrived at, and when the result of the management evaluation is not to the satisfaction of the staff member, the staff member can file an application to the United Nations Dispute Tribunal (UNDT), as a court of first instance.

Read more about the UNDT​
*UN Appeals Tribunal*
Decisions by the Dispute Tribunal may be appealed, either by staff or the administration, to the United Nations Appeals Tribunal (UNAT). The Statute of the UNAT allow for appeals in cases where it is alleged that the UNDT has either exceeded its jurisdiction or failed to exercise it; or that it has erred on question of fact or law or procedure. The UNAT is also competent to hear cases filed by other entities subject to special agreement with the Secretary General.

Read more about the UNAT ​I did notice that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) run for the hills whenever an independent, transparent _(outside the influence of Arab Palestinian coercion)_, professionalized, system of administration of justice under international law and the principles of the rule of law.



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't agree with your assessment. Apparently the rest of the world did not agree at that time either.


*(COMMENT)*

Yet, here were are, three wars later, more than a half century later, and the HoAP are still crying that they they are the poor and downtrodden, treated unfairly, with the right to indiscriminately hunt and kill as many Israelis that they can.  The Arab Palestinians have continuously and incessantly pouted about the security barrier that served to mitigate HoAP criminal activities.  Crying still more that HoAP efforts in murder and kidnapping, suicide attack, hijacking and bombings, gunning down bus loads of men - women - and - children, the indiscriminate firing of thousands of rockets and mortars, have been yet unsuccessful for more than 70 years to achieve by force what they could not achieve through exercising the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; or, settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security are not endangered.

Of course the standard comment and return rhetoric is that the Israelis _(not mentioning the aforementioned provocations)_ have done many times worse (not that the HoAP didn't compare for a lack of trying). 

The HoAP whining has not really changed since the Arab Higher Committee issued their threat in February 1948.  Yes a few choruses were added, but essentially the HoAP has been repeating the same the threats and using various conflict tactics against the territorial integrity and political independence for seven decades.



P F Tinmore said:


> Were the Palestinians asked if they wanted to cede any land to Jordan?


*(COMMENT)*

Almost every time this question is asked, those HoAP Hardliners always conter with something like, these aren't the right kind of Palestinians, or there is a fault in the process.  This is not to mention that the Arab Palestinians were not coordinated enough to accomplish even the simplest of diplomatic of Political task.



			
				Unification of the Two Banks - Official Jordanian History said:
			
		

> [LINK The Tragedy of Palestine]
> "As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new *Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented*. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> 
> "The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordan’s lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees."



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Of course the standard comment and return rhetoric is that the Israelis _(not mentioning the aforementioned provocations)_ have done many times worse (not that the HoAP didn't compare for a lack of trying).


Israeli settler colonialism is the provocation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour | Race in the U.S. | A free public course at The New School*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Life of Palestinian School Children - Four Corners Documentary*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult kindergarten graduation,


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

The Mandated facilitation of Jewish immigration into a territory that was NOT an action deliberately calculated to induce angry within the Arab populations, anywhere in the Middle East, where all rights and title territories situated outside the frontiers of Turkey; where the future of these territories was to be settled by the Allied Powers concerned.

_See_: 

•  Treaty of Lausanne - Article 16
•  Treaty of Sevres - Article 132​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the standard comment and return rhetoric is that the Israelis _(not mentioning the aforementioned provocations)_ have done many times worse (not that the HoAP didn't compare for a lack of trying).
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli settler colonialism is the provocation.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is just another example of the Hostile Arab Palestinian attempting to create the illusion of an Allied Power trying to use Jewish Immigration to bring the Arab Population under their dominant control.

The purpose of the Jewish Immigration was a decision _(Allied Powers 1920 San Remo)_ to establish a Jewish National Home.



			
				British White Paper → June 1922 said:
			
		

> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.



*(COMMENT)*

The idea that the Arab Palestinian had some provocation to violence, based on some colonialist notion is absurd.  While the immigrants were colonists, they were NOT colonials under Article 6 Immigration.

The political relevance of the Immigration Status a half century ago is negotiable.  The fact of reality tell us they two parties (Arab-Israeli in conflict) is here and now.  It is the continuations of the struggle.  Even if the two parties never reach agreement; where a solution is unattainable, it is important to have a clear view of the 21st Century View *(not the view of 50 or 100 years ago) *the Arab-Palestinian holds of the Israeli:
​“the sanctity of the blood of women, young children, and elderly infidels is not absolute. There are cases under which it is permitted to kill them, if they are part of a nation of war…._f only one of these circumstances holds true, then he must permit the operations because the circumstances are not conditional upon fulfilling all of them, but only one will suffice. …
Muslims are permitted to kill infidel innocents reciprocally; if the infidels are targeting the women, the young children and the elderly Muslims, then it is permissible for the Muslims to act reciprocally, and kill just as they were killed. in Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, and other places”
(Communique from Qu’idat al- Jihad Concerning the Testaments of the Heroes and the Legality of the Washington and New York Operations, April 24, 2002, in David Cook, * Understanding Jihad*, U of California Press, 2004, pp 175 et seq.)_​_

Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Ziowood Productions. This is too funny. There is a gun battle and people are casually walking around in the street watching.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The political relevance of the Immigration Status a half century ago is negotiable.


Colonial settlers are not immigrants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This is just another example of the Hostile Arab Palestinian attempting to create the illusion of an Allied Power trying to use Jewish Immigration to bring the Arab Population under their dominant control.


Oh, like that isn't what happened.

Who writes this crap for you?


----------



## Sixties Fan

But throughout the Hamas delegation visit to Iran there were many other statements making it clear that Hamas is sworn to fight Israel forever.

 [Deputy head of Hamas' Political Bureau Saleh al-Arouri] cautioned Arab countries about normalization of ties with the Zionist regime of Israel, adding that Hams will never recognize Israeli regime and will not give up its right of resistance.
“Despite the existing difficulties, fighting the Zionist occupiers and resisting against them is our option," al-Arouri added.
He emphasized that the resistance’s weapon is not negotiable and the issue has not been and will not be discussed in the reconciliation talks between Palestinians.But we are constantly told that the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian people and Mahmoud Abbas in particular support peace with Israel.

(full article online0

Abbas' silence over Hamas partner's genocidal statements against Israel proves he isn't interested in peace ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> But throughout the Hamas delegation visit to Iran there were many other statements making it clear that Hamas is sworn to fight Israel forever.
> 
> [Deputy head of Hamas' Political Bureau Saleh al-Arouri] cautioned Arab countries about normalization of ties with the Zionist regime of Israel, adding that Hams will never recognize Israeli regime and will not give up its right of resistance.
> “Despite the existing difficulties, fighting the Zionist occupiers and resisting against them is our option," al-Arouri added.
> He emphasized that the resistance’s weapon is not negotiable and the issue has not been and will not be discussed in the reconciliation talks between Palestinians.But we are constantly told that the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian people and Mahmoud Abbas in particular support peace with Israel.
> 
> (full article online0
> 
> Abbas' silence over Hamas partner's genocidal statements against Israel proves he isn't interested in peace ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Do you think it would be different if Israel didn't have its fat ass parked on Palestinian land?


----------



## Sixties Fan

He is using the language of the anti-Israel crowd - emphasizing "fundamental rights" and "justice," the keywords that the haters misuse to the point of parody - but the people he is speaking about as victims of injustice are specifically the Christians under Palestinian rule! No one else is fleeing from their land out of fear. 

Unfortunately, any such intended rebuke will go unnoticed or ignored. Arab media is reporting his speech as a straight criticism of Israel. His use of the words "justice" and "rights" will (ironically) hearten the Israel haters.

But there was a criticism of the Muslims who have forced hundred of thousands of Christians to flee the West Bank since 1948. It is too bad that this - one of the major stories out of the Holy Land of the past 70 years - will continue to go virtually unreported.

(full article online)

Pope Francis backhandedly criticizes Palestinian Muslims for forcing Christians to flee ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> He is using the language of the anti-Israel crowd - emphasizing "fundamental rights" and "justice," the keywords that the haters misuse to the point of parody - but the people he is speaking about as victims of injustice are specifically the Christians under Palestinian rule! No one else is fleeing from their land out of fear.
> 
> Unfortunately, any such intended rebuke will go unnoticed or ignored. Arab media is reporting his speech as a straight criticism of Israel. His use of the words "justice" and "rights" will (ironically) hearten the Israel haters.
> 
> But there was a criticism of the Muslims who have forced hundred of thousands of Christians to flee the West Bank since 1948. It is too bad that this - one of the major stories out of the Holy Land of the past 70 years - will continue to go virtually unreported.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Pope Francis backhandedly criticizes Palestinian Muslims for forcing Christians to flee ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.

In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.

Forgotten Christians


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Good propaganda only has to be convincing; the propaganda does not have to be valid.  Most of the Arab Palestinians don't even understand what criteria there is to establish peace.  Arguing about the origins _(50 to 100 years ago)_ of the Arab - Israeli Conflict, while vastly entertaining, is not relevant to the development of a solution. 

The Demand According to the *PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department* (PLO-NAD) || Press Releases October 04, 2017
The Arab-Palestinian wants the US to recognize the State of Palestine on the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital. This is the way to achieve the ultimate deal with the State of Israel to live side by side the State of Palestine in peace and security.​
This is not only ambiguous, but an unrealistic demand.  The PLO-NAD, as do most most Arab-Palestinians, know that Israel will never agree to such a demand that will have the consequence of



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is just another example of the Hostile Arab Palestinian attempting to create the illusion of an Allied Power trying to use Jewish Immigration to bring the Arab Population under their dominant control.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, like that isn't what happened.
> 
> Who writes this crap for you?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

※→ P F Tinmore:  "Oh, like that isn't what happened."  What is that?  Some sort of sarcasm!

There was no attempt on the part of the Allied Powers to use immigration as a proxy strategy.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The political relevance of the Immigration Status a half century ago is negotiable.
> 
> 
> 
> Colonial settlers are not immigrants.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

TRUE
And Article 6 of the Mandate address immigration...  Therefore the Jewish Immigrants are not talking about "colonialism."

BUT, you skipped the entire allegation here.  How Israel came into existence is not the issue (immigrant, - colonial or otherwise)?  Today, the power brokers in the Arab-Israeli world want the sovereign territory for their own exploitation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


[Not a Palestinian]

*Dhafer Youssef* (Arabic: ظافر يوسف‎‎; born 19 November 1967 in Teboulba, Tunisia) is a composer, singer and oud player.

Youssef developed an interest in jazz at an early age and clandestinely listened to it during his education at a Qur'anic school.[1] He later left Tunisia to start a jazz career and has lived in Europe since 1990, usually in Paris or Vienna.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> TRUE
> And Article 6 of the Mandate address immigration... Therefore the Jewish Immigrants are not talking about "colonialism."


Britain and the Zionists both spoke openly about colonizing Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[These are the Palestinian Leaders]

Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; 
Neither Fatah nor Hamas will give up violence

Fatah Central Committee members endorse continued Fatah terror:

Jibril Rajoub: Fatah-Hamas unity government will not give up "resistance" - i.e.,  PA euphemism for terror

Azzam Al-Ahmad: Fatah principles remain "popular resistance, armed struggle, and negotiations"
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 














(full article online)

Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; Neither will give up violence - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [These are the Palestinian Leaders]
> 
> Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas;
> Neither Fatah nor Hamas will give up violence
> 
> Fatah Central Committee members endorse continued Fatah terror:
> 
> Jibril Rajoub: Fatah-Hamas unity government will not give up "resistance" - i.e.,  PA euphemism for terror
> 
> Azzam Al-Ahmad: Fatah principles remain "popular resistance, armed struggle, and negotiations"
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; Neither will give up violence - PMW Bulletins


Israel's colonization was the initial violence. People do not get colonized voluntarily.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [These are the Palestinian Leaders]
> 
> Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas;
> Neither Fatah nor Hamas will give up violence
> 
> Fatah Central Committee members endorse continued Fatah terror:
> 
> Jibril Rajoub: Fatah-Hamas unity government will not give up "resistance" - i.e.,  PA euphemism for terror
> 
> Azzam Al-Ahmad: Fatah principles remain "popular resistance, armed struggle, and negotiations"
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; Neither will give up violence - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's colonization was the initial violence. People do not get colonized voluntarily.
Click to expand...

Bull, you never get upset that the Ottoman Turks colonized Palestine.
Nor that the "Palestinian" Arabs never revolted against them and fought for their independence from the Turks.

Jews do not like being colonized on their own ancient homeland.  Never did.
The land continues to be theirs.

It is called Israel.  The Nation of Israel.  The People of Israel.   

Christians and Muslims know that.

Jew haters try to destroy that.


----------



## Hollie

Shades of The Peaceful Inner Struggle


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


[When did this Palestinian ever experience life in Gaza or "West Bank". What treatment do Palestinians get from the Lebanese government? ]

*Rafeef Ziadah* (born 1979 in Beirut, Lebanon) is a Palestinian-Canadian poet and human rights activist who currently lives in London. She released the spoken word album, _Hadeel._
_
Ziadah was born in Beirut, Lebanon to Palestinian refugee parents[1] and began writing at a young age.[2] She grew up in Tunisia.[1] She attended York University in Toronto.[2] In 2004, she gave her first public performance after she was motivated by her experience of racism to write a poem.[2]_

Rafeef Ziadah - Wikipedia

[What fascinates me more is this video:]


[Was the bombing she experienced caused by Hezbollah attacking Israel and its response to it? 
Does she think that it was against the Palestinians (who need to practice their "Ps"  to pronounce the word with a foreign consonant to them?
When are these Palestinians going to manage to reverse the brainwashing of "this is occupied land, this is Palestinian land, and the Jews and Israel must go "home"? ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.

It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.

Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.

Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.

How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?

Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.

Time for the Arabs, to do the same.

An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians



This narration of events is disingenuous.  "...spectacular attacks on a Christian target...launched by Zionist force"?  Pahleeeze.  A truthful presentation of the events would NOT portray the targets as intentionally "Christian" and apparently empty buildings, or buildings full of innocents being attacked by the awful Zionists.  Where are the Arabs in this representation of events?  A glaring and deliberate omission.  Its like they weren't even there.  

But they were, of course.  The Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem was the focus of heavy fighting between Arab forces -- including irregulars -- and the Israeli army defending their newly-declared State in the face of armed hostility.  An eye-witness, hiding in a church compound writes:

_We kept the Compound gate locked with the object of trying to keep the Compound free of armed men of either party, as we knew that once armed men took up their positions in the Compound they would draw fire on us from the opposite side._

Which is exactly what happened, of course.  

_At midnight the Jews launched their most determined attack on the Jaffa Gate. The attack lasted for about three hours, but they were unable to make any headway against withering fire which hundreds of Arab irregulars kept up without a break from the Citadel and Jaffa Gate. The acrid smoke from all this intensive firing was wafted across into the Compound and into my house where the smell was so thick that it was quite unpleasant to have to breathe._

War diary: An eyewitness account



The article posted by you also makes another glaring omission of fact.  It claims there are only 175,000 remaining Christians in the territory.  The article is a little old.  What it FAILS to mention is that 155,000 of those lived in Israel and only a small percentage remained in West Bank (50,000) and Gaza (3,000).  The numbers in West Bank and Gaza have been further reduced in the past thirteen years since the article was written.  While the numbers in Israel has increased.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

On September 11, 1970 -- a date that only took on haunting overtones with the attacks on New York and Washington in 2001 -- Nixon became the first U.S. president to try to protect air travelers from extremists who sensed gaping vulnerabilities in security for commercial airliners, issuing a statement listing a string of measures including the introduction of 100 air marshals on U.S. planes.
---
"Terrorism has a long history, going back centuries, but we began to see at the very tail end of the 1960s, (and) clearly evident in the 1970s, the emergence of contemporary international terrorism," said Brian Michael Jenkins, a RAND Corporation analyst.

Timothy Naftali, the former head of the Nixon Presidential Library, said that the 37th president was the first to approach terrorism as a federal government issue.

"The '70s are a pivot in how the U.S. deals with terrorism," Naftali said.


(full article online)

Nixon's 9/11: When terrorism came of age - CNNPolitics


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News





Sixties Fan said:


> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


So Palestinian Arabs didn't plan for Jews to fight back?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*

*Tatour’s case has been the focus of a global campaign of support, including from PEN International. And the good news is that PEN America has full-throatedly joined that campaign: the poet is PEN America’s “October featured case.”

PEN gives an excellent description of the crudeness of the Israeli case:

The prosecution of Tatour is of particular concern, as it not only threatens principles of free expression for Palestinian authors, but also represents more broadly an attempt by the Israeli government to litigate the meaning of a piece of literature. The government has based their case primarily on Tatour’s use of the word shahid, both within her poem and in an October 9, 2015, Facebook post of a photograph of Isra’a Abed, an Arab-Israeli woman shot by security officers.

PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet​*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Speaking of knocking.....


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of knocking.....
Click to expand...

IAF? Is that Israeli Asshole Force?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*
> 
> *Tatour’s case has been the focus of a global campaign of support, including from PEN International. And the good news is that PEN America has full-throatedly joined that campaign: the poet is PEN America’s “October featured case.”*
> 
> *PEN gives an excellent description of the crudeness of the Israeli case:*
> 
> *The prosecution of Tatour is of particular concern, as it not only threatens principles of free expression for Palestinian authors, but also represents more broadly an attempt by the Israeli government to litigate the meaning of a piece of literature. The government has based their case primarily on Tatour’s use of the word shahid, both within her poem and in an October 9, 2015, Facebook post of a photograph of Isra’a Abed, an Arab-Israeli woman shot by security officers.*
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*​


[Let us study her poem ]

*Resist, My People, Resist Them*
Resist, my people, resist them.

In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows

And carried the soul in my palm

For an *Arab Palestine*.

*I will not succumb to the “peaceful solution,*”

Never lower my flags

*Until I evict them from my land*.

I cast them aside for a coming time.

Resist, my people, resist them.

Resist the *settler’s robbery*

And follow the caravan of martyrs.

Shred the disgraceful constitution

Which imposed degradation and humiliation

And deterred us from restoring justice.

*They burned blameless children;*

*As for Hadil, they sniped her in public,

Killed her in broad daylight.*

Resist, my people, resist them.

Resist the* colonialist’s onslaught*.

Pay no mind to his agents among us

Who chain us with the peaceful illusion.

Do not fear doubtful tongues;

The truth in your heart is stronger,

As long as you resist in a land

That has lived through raids and victory.

So Ali called from his grave:

Resist, my rebellious people.

Write me as prose on the agarwood;

My remains have you as a response.

Resist, my people, resist them.

Resist, my people, resist them.
------------------

I must say that those words are incitement to kill Jews.
To take Israel by force.
Same words about any other country would lead to the same result.  Jail.
Isn't the PA arresting all of those writing or expressing their demise for a "better" government which will fight and destroy Israel ?

She is most definitely NOT an Arab Voice For Peace.

The "meaning" of this poetry is "Kill the Jews and destroy Israel".
Nothing more and nothing less.

Let us see how long before PEN gets back to its senses.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of knocking.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IAF? Is that Israeli Asshole Force?
Click to expand...

You do not want them to knock on the people's roof to save their lives just send a letter to the IAF and demand that they stop that policy!!!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of knocking.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IAF? Is that Israeli Asshole Force?
Click to expand...


You poor dear. The IAF acts with restraint and that denies you the dead bodies you could otherwise parade around.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*
> 
> *Tatour’s case has been the focus of a global campaign of support, including from PEN International. And the good news is that PEN America has full-throatedly joined that campaign: the poet is PEN America’s “October featured case.”*
> 
> *PEN gives an excellent description of the crudeness of the Israeli case:*
> 
> *The prosecution of Tatour is of particular concern, as it not only threatens principles of free expression for Palestinian authors, but also represents more broadly an attempt by the Israeli government to litigate the meaning of a piece of literature. The government has based their case primarily on Tatour’s use of the word shahid, both within her poem and in an October 9, 2015, Facebook post of a photograph of Isra’a Abed, an Arab-Israeli woman shot by security officers.*
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*​



Am I to understand you believe that publicly calling for ethnic cleansing and the murder of people of a specific ethnic origin is morally permissible?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*
> 
> *Tatour’s case has been the focus of a global campaign of support, including from PEN International. And the good news is that PEN America has full-throatedly joined that campaign: the poet is PEN America’s “October featured case.”*
> 
> *PEN gives an excellent description of the crudeness of the Israeli case:*
> 
> *The prosecution of Tatour is of particular concern, as it not only threatens principles of free expression for Palestinian authors, but also represents more broadly an attempt by the Israeli government to litigate the meaning of a piece of literature. The government has based their case primarily on Tatour’s use of the word shahid, both within her poem and in an October 9, 2015, Facebook post of a photograph of Isra’a Abed, an Arab-Israeli woman shot by security officers.*
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*​
> 
> 
> 
> [Let us study her poem ]
> 
> *Resist, My People, Resist Them*
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
> 
> And carried the soul in my palm
> 
> For an *Arab Palestine*.
> 
> *I will not succumb to the “peaceful solution,*”
> 
> Never lower my flags
> 
> *Until I evict them from my land*.
> 
> I cast them aside for a coming time.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist the *settler’s robbery*
> 
> And follow the caravan of martyrs.
> 
> Shred the disgraceful constitution
> 
> Which imposed degradation and humiliation
> 
> And deterred us from restoring justice.
> 
> *They burned blameless children;*
> 
> *As for Hadil, they sniped her in public,
> 
> Killed her in broad daylight.*
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist the* colonialist’s onslaught*.
> 
> Pay no mind to his agents among us
> 
> Who chain us with the peaceful illusion.
> 
> Do not fear doubtful tongues;
> 
> The truth in your heart is stronger,
> 
> As long as you resist in a land
> 
> That has lived through raids and victory.
> 
> So Ali called from his grave:
> 
> Resist, my rebellious people.
> 
> Write me as prose on the agarwood;
> 
> My remains have you as a response.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> ------------------
> 
> I must say that those words are incitement to kill Jews.
> To take Israel by force.
> Same words about any other country would lead to the same result.  Jail.
> Isn't the PA arresting all of those writing or expressing their demise for a "better" government which will fight and destroy Israel ?
> 
> She is most definitely NOT an Arab Voice For Peace.
> 
> The "meaning" of this poetry is "Kill the Jews and destroy Israel".
> Nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Let us see how long before PEN gets back to its senses.
Click to expand...

Israel - be afraid, very afraid!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of knocking.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IAF? Is that Israeli Asshole Force?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do not want them to knock on the people's roof to save their lives just send a letter to the IAF and demand that they stop that policy!!!
Click to expand...

Where would those assholes be if they did not *mooch* all those planes from the US?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*
> 
> *Tatour’s case has been the focus of a global campaign of support, including from PEN International. And the good news is that PEN America has full-throatedly joined that campaign: the poet is PEN America’s “October featured case.”*
> 
> *PEN gives an excellent description of the crudeness of the Israeli case:*
> 
> *The prosecution of Tatour is of particular concern, as it not only threatens principles of free expression for Palestinian authors, but also represents more broadly an attempt by the Israeli government to litigate the meaning of a piece of literature. The government has based their case primarily on Tatour’s use of the word shahid, both within her poem and in an October 9, 2015, Facebook post of a photograph of Isra’a Abed, an Arab-Israeli woman shot by security officers.*
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*​
> 
> 
> 
> [Let us study her poem ]
> 
> *Resist, My People, Resist Them*
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
> 
> And carried the soul in my palm
> 
> For an *Arab Palestine*.
> 
> *I will not succumb to the “peaceful solution,*”
> 
> Never lower my flags
> 
> *Until I evict them from my land*.
> 
> I cast them aside for a coming time.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist the *settler’s robbery*
> 
> And follow the caravan of martyrs.
> 
> Shred the disgraceful constitution
> 
> Which imposed degradation and humiliation
> 
> And deterred us from restoring justice.
> 
> *They burned blameless children;*
> 
> *As for Hadil, they sniped her in public,
> 
> Killed her in broad daylight.*
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist the* colonialist’s onslaught*.
> 
> Pay no mind to his agents among us
> 
> Who chain us with the peaceful illusion.
> 
> Do not fear doubtful tongues;
> 
> The truth in your heart is stronger,
> 
> As long as you resist in a land
> 
> That has lived through raids and victory.
> 
> So Ali called from his grave:
> 
> Resist, my rebellious people.
> 
> Write me as prose on the agarwood;
> 
> My remains have you as a response.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> ------------------
> 
> I must say that those words are incitement to kill Jews.
> To take Israel by force.
> Same words about any other country would lead to the same result.  Jail.
> Isn't the PA arresting all of those writing or expressing their demise for a "better" government which will fight and destroy Israel ?
> 
> She is most definitely NOT an Arab Voice For Peace.
> 
> The "meaning" of this poetry is "Kill the Jews and destroy Israel".
> Nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Let us see how long before PEN gets back to its senses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel - be afraid, very afraid!
Click to expand...


Outside of islamic terrorist enclaves there are laws that address incitement to violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The things one learns tend to shape one's future.  And it is a pity that her grandparents or parents did not stay in Haifa, as they were asked to by the Jews,  as so many did and where they still live.
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> It is never too late to learn, but how does one teach a young person like this one who only has what her fellow Arab people tell her to be the truth and never exercises her power to learn what the historical facts of the time were, and why UNWRA still exists, and why only the Palestinian Arabs are made to remain refugees out of all of the refugees in the world.
> 
> Time for UNWRA to be dismantled. Time for Arabs like these to chose where they want to live and love the place where they want to live and help the country they are in.
> 
> Time for all Palestinians to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders and take action to change the plans their leaders continue to have for them.  Endless refugee status, which does not really exist anymore as most of those who were really made to leave by their leaders are around no more.
> 
> How long must those who are ignorant of their leaders plans, like this young woman, continue to pay for the dreams of Israel's destruction the leaders endlessly propagate, on a daily basis?
> 
> Descendants of Iraqi Jewish refugees do not call themselves Iraqi.  They call themselves the nationality of the country they were born in.
> 
> Time for the Arabs, to do the same.
> 
> An interview with Palestinian poet, Rafeef Ziadah | Women's Views on News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many excuses to attack Israel, when the whole Arab refugee problem was made by all the Arab leaders who incited all Arabs to leave in order to have a clear path to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of knocking.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IAF? Is that Israeli Asshole Force?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do not want them to knock on the people's roof to save their lives just send a letter to the IAF and demand that they stop that policy!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where would those assholes be if they did not *mooch* all those planes from the US?
Click to expand...


They might be as they were in 1948 when they had no Great Satan aircraft.

You look so cute in your pointy dunce hat.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*
> 
> *Tatour’s case has been the focus of a global campaign of support, including from PEN International. And the good news is that PEN America has full-throatedly joined that campaign: the poet is PEN America’s “October featured case.”*
> 
> *PEN gives an excellent description of the crudeness of the Israeli case:*
> 
> *The prosecution of Tatour is of particular concern, as it not only threatens principles of free expression for Palestinian authors, but also represents more broadly an attempt by the Israeli government to litigate the meaning of a piece of literature. The government has based their case primarily on Tatour’s use of the word shahid, both within her poem and in an October 9, 2015, Facebook post of a photograph of Isra’a Abed, an Arab-Israeli woman shot by security officers.*
> 
> *PEN America slams Israel for effort to criminalize Dareen Tatour’s poetry and denying her access to internet*​
> 
> 
> 
> [Let us study her poem ]
> 
> *Resist, My People, Resist Them*
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
> 
> And carried the soul in my palm
> 
> For an *Arab Palestine*.
> 
> *I will not succumb to the “peaceful solution,*”
> 
> Never lower my flags
> 
> *Until I evict them from my land*.
> 
> I cast them aside for a coming time.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist the *settler’s robbery*
> 
> And follow the caravan of martyrs.
> 
> Shred the disgraceful constitution
> 
> Which imposed degradation and humiliation
> 
> And deterred us from restoring justice.
> 
> *They burned blameless children;*
> 
> *As for Hadil, they sniped her in public,
> 
> Killed her in broad daylight.*
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist the* colonialist’s onslaught*.
> 
> Pay no mind to his agents among us
> 
> Who chain us with the peaceful illusion.
> 
> Do not fear doubtful tongues;
> 
> The truth in your heart is stronger,
> 
> As long as you resist in a land
> 
> That has lived through raids and victory.
> 
> So Ali called from his grave:
> 
> Resist, my rebellious people.
> 
> Write me as prose on the agarwood;
> 
> My remains have you as a response.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> 
> Resist, my people, resist them.
> ------------------
> 
> I must say that those words are incitement to kill Jews.
> To take Israel by force.
> Same words about any other country would lead to the same result.  Jail.
> Isn't the PA arresting all of those writing or expressing their demise for a "better" government which will fight and destroy Israel ?
> 
> She is most definitely NOT an Arab Voice For Peace.
> 
> The "meaning" of this poetry is "Kill the Jews and destroy Israel".
> Nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Let us see how long before PEN gets back to its senses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel - be afraid, very afraid!
Click to expand...


We already discussed her case.

Incitement to violence is still a criminal offense, no matter how wide she smiles.


----------



## rylah

Palestinian Jews : Rafael Abulafia

He was born in Rishon L'Zion, on the 11th of Nissan 5739 (28.3.1893).
To his father Solomon  and to his mother Rivka, daughter of Yaakov Perez Freiman.

On his father's side, he is a descendant of learned people, famous poets, and prominent rabbis, who served as rabbis in various periods at the head of the rabbinate in Jerusalem and in the other holy cities of Eretz Israel and neighboring countries. Among them was Rabbi Chaim Abulafia  who was invited by Shaikh Taher al-Omar ("king of the Galilee") in 1740 and who restored Tiberias more than two hundred years ago.







*His grandfather, on his mother's side, was one of the ten founders of Rishon L'Zion in 1882, and his parents Shlomo and Rivka were among the founders of Ahuzat Bayit (Tel Aviv) and their names engraved at the top of the list of founders on the monument To the founders of the city on Rothschild Boulevard*.

From 1911 to 1914 he was a French and Arabic teacher in Nes Ziona.
With the declaration of the First World War in 1914 he returned to Tel Aviv and was appointed by the Turkish Authority to manage the first post district in Tel Aviv.
He was among the founders and first Maccabees in Israel and its operators.

When the days of accessibility and persecution of General Jamal Pasha, the military commander of Syria and Eretz Israel, and his assistant Hassan Bayyi the governor of Jaffa, began in the Jewish community and the expulsion of foreign subjects abroad, he was touched by the cruel deportations and decided not to conscript to the Ottoman army that persecuted its' own people.
He then managed to secretly move out to Egypt,  Alexandria - where most of the deportees from Eretz Israel, including many members of the community and young people were concentrated.
The situation in Eretz Israel raised a discontent  *and an idea arose, to organize a regiment of Hebrew soldiers, who together with the British army, would fight the Ottomans and expel them from Eretz Israel*
It was created mainly by the initiative of Ze'ev Jabot Naski and Joseph Trumpeldor and called 'ZION MULE CORPS'. He volunteered immediately and was sent to Gallipoli (Turkey) as a battalion sergeant...

2386 | Encyclopedia of the Founders and Builders of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Does her head look big wearing her Islamist Shame Sack?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nevertheless, al-Sinwar dismissed the possibility that Hamas would turn over its arms to the government in Ramallah under any circumstances. “The weapons of the [Hamas military wing] Qassam Brigades are the property of the Palestinian people and we see you and develop our weapons for use in the liberation project and not for the internal conflict,” he promised.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-reconciliation-with-pa-in-danger/2017/10/25/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Nevertheless, al-Sinwar dismissed the possibility that Hamas would turn over its arms to the government in Ramallah under any circumstances. “The weapons of the [Hamas military wing] Qassam Brigades are the property of the Palestinian people and we see you and develop our weapons for use in the liberation project and not for the internal conflict,” he promised.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-reconciliation-with-pa-in-danger/2017/10/25/


Good article, thanks.

There are two reasons why Hamas will not give up their arms.

In the West Bank Israel can enter whenever they want. They arrest who they want. They kill who they want. They destroy whatever they want. They steal whatever they want.

Not so in Gaza.

The security forces in the West Bank regularly violate domestic and international law and the rights of the people. That is why Hamas kicked those criminals out of Gaza in 2007.

Hamas does not want them back in Gaza unchecked.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, al-Sinwar dismissed the possibility that Hamas would turn over its arms to the government in Ramallah under any circumstances. “The weapons of the [Hamas military wing] Qassam Brigades are the property of the Palestinian people and we see you and develop our weapons for use in the liberation project and not for the internal conflict,” he promised.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-reconciliation-with-pa-in-danger/2017/10/25/
> 
> 
> 
> Good article, thanks.
> 
> There are two reasons why Hamas will not give up their arms.
> 
> In the West Bank Israel can enter whenever they want. They arrest who they want. They kill who they want. They destroy whatever they want. They steal whatever they want.
> 
> Not so in Gaza.
> 
> The security forces in the West Bank regularly violate domestic and international law and the rights of the people. That is why Hamas kicked those criminals out of Gaza in 2007.
> 
> Hamas does not want them back in Gaza unchecked.
Click to expand...


More importantly, the welfare thieves represented by the Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc. will want weapons and ammunition as a way to protect their welfare fraud money in the event that the Fatah terrorists try to gain full control of the welfare fraud.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The tweet was posted — and then quickly deleted — by the PLO’s mission in Columbia. As of this writing, not a single major US news outlet has reported on the  tweet.

The PLO, established in 1964, was a US-designated terrorist group until after the Madrid Conference in the early 1990s. As the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) noted in a February 2016 Algemeiner op-ed, Arafat’s decision to side with Saddam Hussein in the first US-Iraq War resulted in a loss of support from his Arab donors. This loss of crucial funds, coupled with the fall of its patron — the USSR — put Arafat and the PLO in a corner.

In response, the PLO agreed to the Oslo Accords, which created the PA, and allowed for Palestinian leaders to come to the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and Gaza.

(full article online)

Fatah Admits Its True Goals — but the Media Won’t Retweet


----------



## Sixties Fan

Officials at Al-Quds University in east Jerusalem greeted Palestinian freshmen last week in front of a banner containing the likenesses of some of the most notorious terrorists in history. These included, according to the Palestinian Media Watch organization, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, Islamic Jihad's Fathi Shiqaqi and Abu Ali Mustafa of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

The sign also proudly displayed a picture of Salah Khalaf, the former leader of Black September, which perpetrated the 1972 Munich Olympic Massacre of 11 Israelis. Of course, an image of Yasser Arafat was front and center, he being widely recognized as the father of modern terrorism before ostensibly agreeing to pursue peace with Israel.

(full article online)

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...the-stagnant-Arab-Israeli-negotiations-508248


----------



## Sixties Fan

Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan instructed police this afternoon to close down a conference organized by PA officials that was to be held this afternoon at the Saint George Hotel in central Jerusalem, _0404_ reported.

According to the report, the PA conference was to have dealt with the topic of Muslim and Christian-owned property sales to Jews.

Under Palestinian Authority (PA) law, selling of land to Jews is criminal and *punishable by death*. However, such sentences must be approved by the PA chairman, and current chairman Mahmoud Abbas has preferred to authorize life sentences for such offenses, possibly wary of an international backlash.

(full article online)

PA event against selling property to Jews shut down


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas threatens to bomb Tel Aviv


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jewish educator uses analogies to explain Middle Eastern conflict


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh*
> 
> **




The projection is strong in this one.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yusef Daher really ought to be ashamed of himself. 

For at least a decade, he has used his status as executive secretary of the Jerusalem Interchurch Center — currently located in St. Anne’s Monastery near the Lion’s Gate of the Old City — to de-legitimize the Jewish state. 

It’s bad enough that Daher, a Christian, has posted images on social media that valorize Palestinian violence against Israeli civilians, but to make matters worse, he has used his status as a “Christian peacemaker” to portray legitimate Israeli security measures as a violation of religious freedom in Jerusalem. The problem is that if Israeli officials did not impose some sort of crowd control on Christian celebrations in Jerusalem, people might get killed in stampedes. It's happened in the past.

Here are the details.

(full article online)

CAMERA Snapshots: Another Chapter in Yusef Daher’s One-Man Propaganda War


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...hway-in-israeli-controlled-area-c/2017/10/26/


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Rabbi Kook represents Religious Zionism. Do you connect with that idea?*

“I connect with Rabbi Kook’s idea. Rabbi Kook and Religious Zionism recognize and believe in peace and human rights and coexistence. The character of Rabbi Kook is a vision, and we must go on according to it.”

*I am accompanying you here in the Knesset, and I see MKs surprised and confused by your request.*

“For MKs, it’s something new for an Arab Muslim from eastern Jerusalem to be talking about Rabbi Kook. We must learn from the past, and talk is not enough - we must act.”

(Full article online)

The Arab working to commemorate Rabbi Kook


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Art Exhibition -100 ways for peace(samih abu zakieh)*

**


----------



## Hollie

101 ways how _*not*_ to address your Islamic terrorist problem.

*
Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; Neither will give up violence - PMW Bulletins*

*Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; *
*Neither Fatah nor Hamas will give up violence*

*Fatah Central Committee members endorse continued Fatah terror:*

*Jibril Rajoub: Fatah-Hamas unity government will not give up "resistance" - i.e.,  PA euphemism for terror*

*Azzam Al-Ahmad: Fatah principles remain "popular resistance, armed struggle, and negotiations"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> 101 ways how _*not*_ to address your Islamic terrorist problem.
> 
> *
> Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; Neither will give up violence - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> *Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas;
> Neither Fatah nor Hamas will give up violence*
> 
> *Fatah Central Committee members endorse continued Fatah terror:*
> 
> *Jibril Rajoub: Fatah-Hamas unity government will not give up "resistance" - i.e.,  PA euphemism for terror*
> 
> *Azzam Al-Ahmad: Fatah principles remain "popular resistance, armed struggle, and negotiations"*


PMW is an Israeli propaganda organization. *Everything* they do is to slime the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 101 ways how _*not*_ to address your Islamic terrorist problem.
> 
> *
> Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas; Neither will give up violence - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> *Fatah seeks "true partnership" with Hamas;
> Neither Fatah nor Hamas will give up violence*
> 
> *Fatah Central Committee members endorse continued Fatah terror:*
> 
> *Jibril Rajoub: Fatah-Hamas unity government will not give up "resistance" - i.e.,  PA euphemism for terror*
> 
> *Azzam Al-Ahmad: Fatah principles remain "popular resistance, armed struggle, and negotiations"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW is an Israeli propaganda organization. *Everything* they do is to slime the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Don't let your hurt feelings cause you to make statements you should know are nonsensical. The contents at my earlier post contains a direct link to an interview broadcast on Lebanese TV.

Links to the islamic terrorist Facebook account maintained by fatah and expressing their Death Cult preoccupations is hardly "sliming" anyone. 

Your Death Cult heroes are simply victims of their self-created, miserable existence.

You choose to align with and make heroes of misfits and retrogrades. Enjoy the show.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[When the Muslim/Christian Jew haters led UN cannot destroy Israel one way, it finds another.  And the Peace Loving/Oslo Accords co-signers PA are right there with them ]

UN Launching $5 Billion Plan to ‘End Occupation,’ Blame Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 7 Heshvan 5778 – October 27, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The notion that Hamas would ever dismantle its security apparatus and deliver the Gaza Strip to Mahmoud Abbas's forces is a fantasy.


It is estimated that there are about 50 different militias operating in the Gaza Strip. These militias are said to be in possession of about a million pieces of weaponry.


If Hamas refuses to disarm, that is one thing, but when Abbas's supposed loyalists also come out with similar statements, that this is akin to spitting in the face of the Palestinian Authority president.

(full article online)

Militias vs. Palestinian "Reconciliation"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Video: U.N. Palestine rapporteur 'unaware' he could address Palestinian human rights violations - UN Watch


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report by U.N. Palestine investigator calls for boycott, ignores Palestinian rights violations - UN Watch


----------



## Sixties Fan

"It is inconceivable that a girl of 13 gave birth as part of an _'urf_ marriage, which means that she was taken captive and led [to the slaughter] at the age of 12. When this happens to a girl so young, or to [any] underage girl, it can only be characterized as captivity and is comparable to kidnap and torture – even if the sinner [who did this to her] bound her with [chains of] gold or lay her in a bed of honey!...

"This is happening in our land while we brandish slogans of liberation and rights, and vie with [other] nations in joining international organizations [dedicated to] women's and children's rights, and while Palestinian jurists are drafting the most modern laws, compatible with international conventions. However, we are apparently afraid to touch the flames of heritage and of customs that lack validity under both shari'a and civil law – even though we know the fire will eventually reach [and burn] us. Like others, we wait for fate to surprise us or for change to be imposed upon us.

(full article online)

Palestinian Columnist: While Calling For National Liberation And Advocating Human Rights, We Continue To Allow Underage Marriage


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's response to BDS betrays its weakness | Susan Abulhawa at "Free (Speech) Palestine), 9/18/17*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel's response to BDS betrays its weakness | Susan Abulhawa at "Free (Speech) Palestine), 9/18/17*
> 
> **



A joooo hater living in the _Great Satan_™

Don’t you know know that Joooooos control the media, that includes YouTube,


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salah Allam*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

Palestinian Jews.... _"by the virtue of Bar-Yochai the nation of Israel lives" _

__


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border Police detectives and South District police officers arrested three Palestinian Arabs on suspicion of stealing hundreds of kilograms of agricultural produce from southern Israel.

(full article online)

Arabs arrested for agricultural theft - again


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Such peace loving people ]

Anti-Israel Rioters Crash Israeli-Arab Pro-IDF Event in Lincoln Square Synagogue | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | JNi.Media | 9 Heshvan 5778 – October 28, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Palestinian Jews.... _"by the virtue of Bar-Yochai the nation of Israel lives" _
> 
> __


Off topic but I think you might like this.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Jews.... _"by the virtue of Bar-Yochai the nation of Israel lives" _
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic but I think you might like this.
Click to expand...


"Off-topic" because Shimon Bar-Yochai wasn't an Arab?

You'll have it hard time separating "Palestinian" for "Palestinian Jews"


----------



## rylah

Palestinian Jews - Rabbi Israel ben Moshe Najara


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinian Jews - 19th century ]

5.  Also note the advertisement for "Valero." The Jewish Valero family arrived in the 1840s and opened the first private bank in the land.  Their office was inside the Old City. A detailed feature on the Valeros appeared in these pages in July 2012. The family also held valuable areas of Jerusalem real estate outside of the Old City.

*

*




*

*

Picture a Day - The Holy Land Revealed


----------



## rylah

Interesting why is it that Tinmore tends to go offline when we mention Palestinian Jews?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Palestinian Jews  -  WWI  ]




_Jewish recruits for the 40th (Palestine) Battalion, Royal Fusiliers in Jerusalem, summer 1918. Imperial War Museum Q 12670.

Picture a Day - The Holy Land Revealed_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Palestinian Jews - WWI  ]

*The Turks Bear Down* 

Across Palestine, the Turks ruled with cruelty and rapaciousness. All suffered, but especially Jews and Armenian Christians. Since Russia was part of the alliance ranged against Germany and the Ottoman empire, Jews of Russian origin were viewed as a potential fifth column. In December 1914, the Turks expelled 6,000 of them from Jaffa. (Thanks to the U.S. Navy, they were safely evacuated to Alexandria.) In April 1917, another 8,000-10,000 Jews would be expelled from Jaffa and Tel Aviv.




_Expelled Jews arriving in Alexandria, Egypt, in late 1914 or early 1915 on the USS Tennessee. Department of the Navy, Naval Historical Center_.

Picture a Day - The Holy Land Revealed


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Palestinian Jews - 19th Century Painting ]




_Jews Praying at the Wailing Wall_ by Johann Martin Bernatz. The Ottoman Archives provided a date of 1868. 
(_Author's digital photograph collection_)

Picture a Day - The Holy Land Revealed


----------



## montelatici




----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> View attachment 157101


Again, it not only shows how the invading Muslims have populated all of the land outside of their native indigenous land of Arabia, but are intent on keeping all of it under Muslim hands for perpetuity.

Sorry, but.....Muslims have 80% of what is native Palestine, by nook and by crook since 1922.

The rest belongs to its indigenous people, the Jewish people, and they are going to remain sovereign over it, you like it or not.

Keep crying Nazi Christian you!  Keep showing what Christianity and Islam are all about


----------



## Sixties Fan

She then suggests that she does not come to the movement and tell people to accept her as a palestinian, but rather has only brought that up after people ask. This is also false. She wastes no opportunity in shoving the fact that she is palestinian in everyone’s face at all movement rallies. For example, see here. Note not just what she says but what she is wearing.

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour Once Again Flat-Out Lying


----------



## Sixties Fan

For Muslims and Christians, the description mentions specific myths and events that supposedly happened in Jerusalem. For Jews, it is merely a "symbol" that is somehow "tied" toJudaism - not the location of the Temples, not the central point of holiness for all Jews, not the place rhapsodized about by King David, but merely somehow connected to Judaism.

The goal of the conference was, of course, to wrest control of Jerusalem away from the Jewish state - the only political entity in history that gave equal access to the city for all religions:
 This symposium will focus on East Jerusalem and will provide details on the current and evolving conditions in the Holy City. It will explore practical ways by which resilient development could be stimulated via a robust economy, infrastructural projects, and tourism, as well as seek to identify opportunities to intensify local, regional, and international support for East Jerusalem to safeguard its status.And one of their star speakers to help reach that goal was Husam Zomlot, Head of the PLO General Delegation to the US.

Zumlot said that peace is impossible unless east Jerusalem - "ALL of East Jerusalem," he emphasized - is the capital of a Palestinian state.

(full article online)

PLO rep: "No peace without Palestinian control of ALL E. Jerusalem" (including Western Wall, Jewish Quarter) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago, it has built a huge security apparatus that consists of thousands of militiamen, most of them members of Ezaddin Al-Qassam, the movement's military wing. Hamas has also smuggled large amounts of weapons into the Gaza Strip and dug dozens of tunnels along the borders with Israel and Egypt.

The notion that Hamas would ever dismantle its security apparatus and deliver the Gaza Strip to Mahmoud Abbas's forces is a fantasy. Hamas has no problem allowing Abbas loyalists to return to the Rafah border crossing with Egypt, as was the situation before 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip. But this is the most Hamas would be willing to sacrifice to support the success of the "reconciliation" accord with Abbas and his Fatah faction.

(full article online)

Militias vs. Palestinian "Reconciliation"


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The existence of a tunnel under an UNRWA facility in unacceptable and places the children and staff at huge risk,” the agency said.

(full article online)

UN finds underground tunnel coming from UNWRA school in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

The two suspects entered Israel illegally, with the assistance of a “coyote,” and worked in Israel for about two weeks. At some point, as they revealed to their Shin Bet interrogators, the two decided to carry out a stabbing attack and kill Jews – as revenge for the killing of their friend, Ahmed Abu al-Rob, who had been killed during an attempted stabbing attack at the Gilboa crossing. They also wanted to avenge what they perceived as the Israeli violations of the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/isr...en-shmerlings-murder-in-arab-city/2017/10/29/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Arab Child Shoots at IDF Force at Gaza Border | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 9 Heshvan 5778 – October 29, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,


Do you still believe that crap?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
Click to expand...


Are you still in deep denial?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
Click to expand...

Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.
Click to expand...


Peace protests?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peace protests?
Click to expand...

They don't mention why there was a conflict,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.
Click to expand...


That’s fine. And the civil war fought by the Hamas Islamic terrorists vs. the fatah Islamic terrorists didn’t include running street battles, targeted assassinations and torture. 

Because as we know, Islamism is _The Religion of Peace_™

Join in on the 2nd chorus:

*Row, row, row your boat*.....


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s fine. And the civil war fought by the Hamas Islamic terrorists vs. the fatah Islamic terrorists didn’t include running street battles, targeted assassinations and torture.
> 
> Because as we know, Islamism is _The Religion of Peace_™
> 
> Join in on the 2nd chorus:
> 
> *Row, row, row your boat*.....
Click to expand...

Still no mention of why the conflict.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peace protests?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't mention why there was a conflict,
Click to expand...


Wait. I think I know. The _Tinmore Vortex_™ that answers 1,400 years of Islamic intransigence and uninterrupted war:

_*I Blame The Joooooos*_™


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's refusal to disarm should come as no surprise. Since Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip ten years ago,
> 
> 
> 
> Do you still believe that crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still in deep denial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I just don't believe that lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s fine. And the civil war fought by the Hamas Islamic terrorists vs. the fatah Islamic terrorists didn’t include running street battles, targeted assassinations and torture.
> 
> Because as we know, Islamism is _The Religion of Peace_™
> 
> Join in on the 2nd chorus:
> 
> *Row, row, row your boat*.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still no mention of why the conflict.
Click to expand...


No mention of your conspiracy theory. Come on, you’re just aching to barf it out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Canaantes, Phillistines, Arabs, Muslims, ancient Palestine.  Now, why in the world does the UN need to "strengthen" any identity in the world, one which says it is as old as ancient Canaan/Palestine itself?  Whose's money is the UN 
spending on this? Who is authorizing it? ]

The UN Charter says "Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state." What can possibly be a more domestic matter than strengthening national identity?

Why is it in the world's interest to strengthen Palestinian "national identity" unless the real purpose is to weaken Israel? And if the Palestinian national identity is so weak that it needs outside funding to strengthen it, then what does that say about the need for a Palestinian state altogether? Certainly Palestinian national identity is a comparatively recent development. Why does it deserve international support if not to be used as a weapon against Israel?

Of course, the last sentence shows the agenda. The UN wants to ensure that Israel has no rights over the sacred parts of Jerusalem. By declaring that Jerusalem is in fact the "future Palestinian capital" the UN is declaring a kind of war on Israel and Jews worldwide who have regarded Jerusalem as their capital since King David.

This is what the UN is spending its money on.

Any reasonable person should be outraged.

(full article online)

UN to spend $32M to strengthen Palestinian "national identity,"  $18M to demonize Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Joudie Kalla educating and building community with food*


----------



## Hollie

Nothing like a heapin’ helpin’ of Islamic Terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Canaantes, Phillistines, Arabs, Muslims, ancient Palestine.  Now, why in the world does the UN need to "strengthen" any identity in the world, one which says it is as old as ancient Canaan/Palestine itself?  Whose's money is the UN
> spending on this? Who is authorizing it? ]
> 
> The UN Charter says "Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state." What can possibly be a more domestic matter than strengthening national identity?
> 
> Why is it in the world's interest to strengthen Palestinian "national identity" unless the real purpose is to weaken Israel? And if the Palestinian national identity is so weak that it needs outside funding to strengthen it, then what does that say about the need for a Palestinian state altogether? Certainly Palestinian national identity is a comparatively recent development. Why does it deserve international support if not to be used as a weapon against Israel?
> 
> Of course, the last sentence shows the agenda. The UN wants to ensure that Israel has no rights over the sacred parts of Jerusalem. By declaring that Jerusalem is in fact the "future Palestinian capital" the UN is declaring a kind of war on Israel and Jews worldwide who have regarded Jerusalem as their capital since King David.
> 
> This is what the UN is spending its money on.
> 
> Any reasonable person should be outraged.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UN to spend $32M to strengthen Palestinian "national identity,"  $18M to demonize Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> Why is it in the world's interest to strengthen Palestinian "national identity"


That is because for the last hundred years the Zionists/Israel consistently denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians. It has only been in recent decades that the Palestinians have had the means to set that record straight.

The UN has been dropping the ball on the Palestinians since 1945. They pass resolutions reaffirming Palestinian national rights then throw them on the shelf to collect dust.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  Canaantes, Phillistines, Arabs, Muslims, ancient Palestine.  Now, why in the world does the UN need to "strengthen" any identity in the world, one which says it is as old as ancient Canaan/Palestine itself?  Whose's money is the UN
> spending on this? Who is authorizing it? ]
> 
> The UN Charter says "Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state." What can possibly be a more domestic matter than strengthening national identity?
> 
> Why is it in the world's interest to strengthen Palestinian "national identity" unless the real purpose is to weaken Israel? And if the Palestinian national identity is so weak that it needs outside funding to strengthen it, then what does that say about the need for a Palestinian state altogether? Certainly Palestinian national identity is a comparatively recent development. Why does it deserve international support if not to be used as a weapon against Israel?
> 
> Of course, the last sentence shows the agenda. The UN wants to ensure that Israel has no rights over the sacred parts of Jerusalem. By declaring that Jerusalem is in fact the "future Palestinian capital" the UN is declaring a kind of war on Israel and Jews worldwide who have regarded Jerusalem as their capital since King David.
> 
> This is what the UN is spending its money on.
> 
> Any reasonable person should be outraged.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UN to spend $32M to strengthen Palestinian "national identity,"  $18M to demonize Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it in the world's interest to strengthen Palestinian "national identity"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is because for the last hundred years the Zionists/Israel consistently denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians. It has only been in recent decades that the Palestinians have had the means to set that record straight.
> 
> The UN has been dropping the ball on the Palestinians since 1945. They pass resolutions reaffirming Palestinian national rights then throw them on the shelf to collect dust.
Click to expand...


It was only in the late 1960’s that Yassir “_it’s not aids_” Arafat invented “Pal’Istanian” as a national identity. 

You might want to send a strongly worded email to the UN identifying your dissatisfaction.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*VIDEO: Meet the 73-year-old bicycle mechanic Palestinian grandmother from Nablus*


https://vid.alarabiya.net/2017/10/2...p4?versionId=jCsBsgb1WYl1JsM9CJig5nDkyUBg97Gf


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF destroys terror tunnels along Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

“This is a murderous ideology that is being passed on to these children at a young age, leaving no hope for a peace deal, since the hatred they spread has only worsened over the years.”

“From the very neighborhood where the police department’s national headquarters are located, [students] are taken on a field trip like this. We see their support for the criminal Arafat, whom they see as a hero. We support these people as residents [of Israel], and they receive healthcare services and are covered by the National Insurance Institute. We need to deal with these girls’ teachers. I think they should be residents of the Palestinian Authority, and that [the PA] should pay for their healthcare and national insurance needs.”

(full article online)

Jerusalem girls' school organizes field trip to Arafat's grave


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> IDF destroys terror tunnels along Gaza border


Terror tunnels?

*Stupid post of the day.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “This is a murderous ideology that is being passed on to these children at a young age, leaving no hope for a peace deal, since the hatred they spread has only worsened over the years.”
> 
> “From the very neighborhood where the police department’s national headquarters are located, [students] are taken on a field trip like this. We see their support for the criminal Arafat, whom they see as a hero. We support these people as residents [of Israel], and they receive healthcare services and are covered by the National Insurance Institute. We need to deal with these girls’ teachers. I think they should be residents of the Palestinian Authority, and that [the PA] should pay for their healthcare and national insurance needs.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jerusalem girls' school organizes field trip to Arafat's grave





Sixties Fan said:


> leaving no hope for a peace deal,


A deal is something you get from a used car salesman.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF destroys terror tunnels along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels?
> 
> *Stupid post of the day.*
Click to expand...


Maybe you're thinking islamic terrorists used their welfare fraud money to build the tunnels as a Halloween fright house...you know...
do
It
for
the children, right?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “This is a murderous ideology that is being passed on to these children at a young age, leaving no hope for a peace deal, since the hatred they spread has only worsened over the years.”
> 
> “From the very neighborhood where the police department’s national headquarters are located, [students] are taken on a field trip like this. We see their support for the criminal Arafat, whom they see as a hero. We support these people as residents [of Israel], and they receive healthcare services and are covered by the National Insurance Institute. We need to deal with these girls’ teachers. I think they should be residents of the Palestinian Authority, and that [the PA] should pay for their healthcare and national insurance needs.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jerusalem girls' school organizes field trip to Arafat's grave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> leaving no hope for a peace deal,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A deal is something you get from a used car salesman.
Click to expand...


Gee-had is what you get from the Hamas charter.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Most of you have probably already heard about Michael Chikindas, a professor at Rutgers’ Department of Food Science. His research interests sound professional and include “Bacillus subtilis and lactic acid bacteria spp. as a host for overproduction of biomolecules,” but the professor’s problem is an acute and apparently untreated overproduction of bigotry. His numerous vile posts on Facebook were first exposed on _Israellycool_ and then reported by many other sites, including _The Algemeiner_ and _Tablet_. The writer John-Paul Pagano, who authored the _Tablet _piece, also posted an archive with screenshots of the Facebook posts Chikindas shared with the world – though he apparently didn’t have many Facebook “friends” who noticed. (As I am writing this, I see that John-Paul Pagano keeps finding more.)

While most of the material is shockingly vile, I was particularly struck by one image – because it could have served as the perfect illustration of one of Linda Sarsour’s tweets that I documented earlier this year. As I noted back then, Sarsour wrote several tweets with a similar message, but the one I immediately recalled when I saw the Chikindas post is: “Homeless on the streets, Americans who haven’t recovered from natural disasters, unemployment, and we have extra $$$ for Israel. Smh. [Shaking my head].”

(full article online)

When an antisemitic picture is worth a thousand words: Michael Chikindas and Linda Sarsour (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Laila al Marayati*

**


----------



## Hollie

Friends of The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*NYU staging of Palestinian fighters in ‘The Siege’ marked a breakthrough*

The production has now ended, and it turns out that all I sensed that night was affirmed during the run. The show was a triumph. It brought in an audience of 3500 over 10 performances; it drew scarcely any of the attacks/demonstrations/official smears that were anticipated, thereby vindicating NYU’s brave decision to go forward in spite of inside pressure; and last but not least it gave the Palestinian production company the thrilling realization that they were welcome at last in American culture.

The importance of this production is that after it was crushed by the lobby, it defeated the lobby; progressive New York embraced it. Thus it will pave the way for other Palestinian artists to bring out their works with far less interference.

NYU staging of Palestinian fighters in ‘The Siege’ marked a breakthrough


----------



## Hollie

Heroic Islamic terrorists teaching children the ways of The Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


>




Palestine: Roman name for ancient Israel. Palestine is bogus ⤵️


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


>




Palestine, Jerusalem, al Quds are not even mentioned in Arabs’  Koran. In fact, there is no letter p in Arabic

But Children of Israel appear


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine: Roman name for ancient Israel. Palestine is bogus ⤵️
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. Israeli talking points.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


>



Renowned scholar of Arab history: “For Arabs, there was no country of palestine”


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine: Roman name for ancient Israel. Palestine is bogus ⤵️
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Encyclopedia of Islam: Palestine, Roman name for Jews’ land


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine: Roman name for ancient Israel. Palestine is bogus ⤵️
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Jesus is King of Israel in the Bible. Palestine doesn’t appear as it didn’t exist


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine: Roman name for ancient Israel. Palestine is bogus ⤵️
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Arabs’ own Koran even acknowledges Children of Israel. Palestine doesn’t appear as it didn’t exist. And, there’s no letter p in Arabic


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's response to BDS betrays its weakness | Susan Abulhawa at "Free (Speech) Palestine), 9/18/17*

**


----------



## JoelT1

Jesus walked in the land of Israel in the Bible. Palestine doesn’t appear as it didn’t exist


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself (3/5)*

**


----------



## JoelT1

Jesus is called King of the Jews, in addition to King of Israel, in the Bible. “Palestinians” never existed


----------



## JoelT1

Get this: Arabs’ own Koran says Allah decreed Israel to Children of Israel. Palestinians never existed


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

Jesus’ Jewish geneology detailed in the Bible. “Palestinians” never existed


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself (3/5)*
> 
> **



Does France have a right to exist as a French State?  Does Catalonia have a right to exist as a Catalan State?  Does Palestine have a right to exist as a Palestinian State?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself (3/5)*
> 
> **



Oh give me a break.  The opening sentence of this video defeats your purpose.  The claim, in the opening sentence is that States either exist or they do not exist -- there is no "right" to exist.

If we are going with that (are you?) then Israel exists and Palestine does not.  Sheesh.  Defeat your own argument much?


----------



## Shusha

On the other hand, the next sentence says that States only exist via the right of people to self-determination.  That would certainly not exclude the rights of Jews, now, would it?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## JoelT1

Who are the “palestinians” and where did they come from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Technically, the statue was sponsored by the Arab Liberation Front (ALF), not the municipality of Qalqilya or the PA itself. But the PA’s district governor for the Qalqilya District, Rafi Rawajba, attended the unveiling ceremony. Rawajba is a representative of the Fatah movement, which PA President Mahmoud Abbas chairs.

You can see from the photos distributed by The Associated Press that the statue is 20 feet tall, with lights so everyone can see it at night, too. And it’s situated smack in the middle of a major street. If the mayor or Abbas didn’t want there, it would be gone in five minutes. 

In fact, the ALF has erected statues of Saddam in several other PA-controlled cities, too, and Abbas has not ordered them taken down, either. That’s because he was always one of Saddam’s biggest fans. Abbas could have written the Arabic inscription on the statue himself: “Allah is great, long live the nation, Palestine and Iraq, the Lord of the era’s martyrs Saddam Hussein.”

(full article online)

With Saddam statue, Abbas thumbs his nose at the US


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Fatah terrorist wing, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, celebrated the  "martyrdom" of the terrorists and said:

 We affirm that the blood of the martyrs will not be wasted and that the Zionist enemy bears the consequences of this sinful crime. We also affirm that the blood of the martyrs will be the fuel for the continuation of the resistance until the occupation is defeated from all of Palestine.

The Fatah Facebook page showed a picture of the dead "martyrs" saying that they are alive in paradise, and claiming that they are smiling in death.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas' "moderate" Fatah praises dead tunnel terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an, the independent press agency, refers to the dead terrorists as "martyrs" and describes the attack on the tunnel not as occurring in Israel but "east of Khan Younis" to inflame passions of Palestinians as if this was an attack on Gaza.

The Gaza Ministry of Health is claiming that Israel used poison gas in the tunnels, and is calling for an international investigation. Because, of course, they care so much about international law.

Of course, Islamic Jihad and Hamas and the other terror groups all issued statements about how this "crime" will not go unpunished. No Palestinian is decrying this "cycle of violence" that they are threatening to start.

The head of the secular and pro-democracy Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, described the bombing as "a crime aimed at reconciliation and aimed at provocation. It shows the criminal and provocative nature of the Netanyahu government and its ministers who want to use Palestinian blood for their internal rivalries."

Not a word against the idea of terrorists building tunnels into Israel to perform kidnapping and massacres.No chiding Islamic Jihad for provoking Israel to defend itself. Israel's actions, across the board, are portrayed as aggressive and unwarranted. 

(full article online)

Palestinian support for terror tunnels is across the board ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Ma'an, the independent press agency, refers to the dead terrorists as "martyrs" and describes the attack on the tunnel not as occurring in Israel but "east of Khan Younis" to inflame passions of Palestinians as if this was an attack on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Ministry of Health is claiming that Israel used poison gas in the tunnels, and is calling for an international investigation. Because, of course, they care so much about international law.
> 
> Of course, Islamic Jihad and Hamas and the other terror groups all issued statements about how this "crime" will not go unpunished. No Palestinian is decrying this "cycle of violence" that they are threatening to start.
> 
> The head of the secular and pro-democracy Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, described the bombing as "a crime aimed at reconciliation and aimed at provocation. It shows the criminal and provocative nature of the Netanyahu government and its ministers who want to use Palestinian blood for their internal rivalries."
> 
> Not a word against the idea of terrorists building tunnels into Israel to perform kidnapping and massacres.No chiding Islamic Jihad for provoking Israel to defend itself. Israel's actions, across the board, are portrayed as aggressive and unwarranted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian support for terror tunnels is across the board ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Tunnels are a violation of international law too, just sayin'?​
How so?

Whether the crimes are to kidnap civilians, kidnap soldiers, or to pop out of the tunnel and shoot everyone on sight,​
Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.

BTW, soldiers are captured not kidnapped.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ma'an, the independent press agency, refers to the dead terrorists as "martyrs" and describes the attack on the tunnel not as occurring in Israel but "east of Khan Younis" to inflame passions of Palestinians as if this was an attack on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Ministry of Health is claiming that Israel used poison gas in the tunnels, and is calling for an international investigation. Because, of course, they care so much about international law.
> 
> Of course, Islamic Jihad and Hamas and the other terror groups all issued statements about how this "crime" will not go unpunished. No Palestinian is decrying this "cycle of violence" that they are threatening to start.
> 
> The head of the secular and pro-democracy Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, described the bombing as "a crime aimed at reconciliation and aimed at provocation. It shows the criminal and provocative nature of the Netanyahu government and its ministers who want to use Palestinian blood for their internal rivalries."
> 
> Not a word against the idea of terrorists building tunnels into Israel to perform kidnapping and massacres.No chiding Islamic Jihad for provoking Israel to defend itself. Israel's actions, across the board, are portrayed as aggressive and unwarranted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian support for terror tunnels is across the board ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Tunnels are a violation of international law too, just sayin'?​
> How so?
> 
> Whether the crimes are to kidnap civilians, kidnap soldiers, or to pop out of the tunnel and shoot everyone on sight,​
> Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.
> 
> BTW, soldiers are captured not kidnapped.
Click to expand...

Dunce, digging tunnels into a sovereign territory IS a violation of international law, you like it or not.

Against civilians, against soldiers, against the wind.....

Just saying!!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Exploded tunnel was dug for soldier abductions, Gaza terror leader says


----------



## Sixties Fan

Say that "peace" means "destroy Israel" enough times, soon people will believe it ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Calling Out the Tellers of Anti-Israel Lies | RealClearPolitics


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine: Roman name for ancient Israel. Palestine is bogus ⤵️
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


This renowned historian does not use the name “palestine” because it was an illegitimate Roman name imposed on the indigenous Jewish population


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ma'an, the independent press agency, refers to the dead terrorists as "martyrs" and describes the attack on the tunnel not as occurring in Israel but "east of Khan Younis" to inflame passions of Palestinians as if this was an attack on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Ministry of Health is claiming that Israel used poison gas in the tunnels, and is calling for an international investigation. Because, of course, they care so much about international law.
> 
> Of course, Islamic Jihad and Hamas and the other terror groups all issued statements about how this "crime" will not go unpunished. No Palestinian is decrying this "cycle of violence" that they are threatening to start.
> 
> The head of the secular and pro-democracy Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, described the bombing as "a crime aimed at reconciliation and aimed at provocation. It shows the criminal and provocative nature of the Netanyahu government and its ministers who want to use Palestinian blood for their internal rivalries."
> 
> Not a word against the idea of terrorists building tunnels into Israel to perform kidnapping and massacres.No chiding Islamic Jihad for provoking Israel to defend itself. Israel's actions, across the board, are portrayed as aggressive and unwarranted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian support for terror tunnels is across the board ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Tunnels are a violation of international law too, just sayin'?​
> How so?
> 
> Whether the crimes are to kidnap civilians, kidnap soldiers, or to pop out of the tunnel and shoot everyone on sight,​
> Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.
> 
> BTW, soldiers are captured not kidnapped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dunce, digging tunnels into a sovereign territory IS a violation of international law, you like it or not.
> 
> Against civilians, against soldiers, against the wind.....
> 
> Just saying!!!!
Click to expand...

Those tunnels did not cross any borders.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ma'an, the independent press agency, refers to the dead terrorists as "martyrs" and describes the attack on the tunnel not as occurring in Israel but "east of Khan Younis" to inflame passions of Palestinians as if this was an attack on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Ministry of Health is claiming that Israel used poison gas in the tunnels, and is calling for an international investigation. Because, of course, they care so much about international law.
> 
> Of course, Islamic Jihad and Hamas and the other terror groups all issued statements about how this "crime" will not go unpunished. No Palestinian is decrying this "cycle of violence" that they are threatening to start.
> 
> The head of the secular and pro-democracy Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, described the bombing as "a crime aimed at reconciliation and aimed at provocation. It shows the criminal and provocative nature of the Netanyahu government and its ministers who want to use Palestinian blood for their internal rivalries."
> 
> Not a word against the idea of terrorists building tunnels into Israel to perform kidnapping and massacres.No chiding Islamic Jihad for provoking Israel to defend itself. Israel's actions, across the board, are portrayed as aggressive and unwarranted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian support for terror tunnels is across the board ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Tunnels are a violation of international law too, just sayin'?​
> How so?
> 
> Whether the crimes are to kidnap civilians, kidnap soldiers, or to pop out of the tunnel and shoot everyone on sight,​
> Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.
> 
> BTW, soldiers are captured not kidnapped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dunce, digging tunnels into a sovereign territory IS a violation of international law, you like it or not.
> 
> Against civilians, against soldiers, against the wind.....
> 
> Just saying!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those tunnels did not cross any borders.
Click to expand...

Tinbrain can see the Israeli/Gaza "border from his living room.

Oh, wait, there is no Israel, therefore there can be no borders.....
and the "Palestinians" have broken no law, much less International law.

Yeah......


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ma'an, the independent press agency, refers to the dead terrorists as "martyrs" and describes the attack on the tunnel not as occurring in Israel but "east of Khan Younis" to inflame passions of Palestinians as if this was an attack on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Ministry of Health is claiming that Israel used poison gas in the tunnels, and is calling for an international investigation. Because, of course, they care so much about international law.
> 
> Of course, Islamic Jihad and Hamas and the other terror groups all issued statements about how this "crime" will not go unpunished. No Palestinian is decrying this "cycle of violence" that they are threatening to start.
> 
> The head of the secular and pro-democracy Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, described the bombing as "a crime aimed at reconciliation and aimed at provocation. It shows the criminal and provocative nature of the Netanyahu government and its ministers who want to use Palestinian blood for their internal rivalries."
> 
> Not a word against the idea of terrorists building tunnels into Israel to perform kidnapping and massacres.No chiding Islamic Jihad for provoking Israel to defend itself. Israel's actions, across the board, are portrayed as aggressive and unwarranted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian support for terror tunnels is across the board ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Tunnels are a violation of international law too, just sayin'?​
> How so?
> 
> Whether the crimes are to kidnap civilians, kidnap soldiers, or to pop out of the tunnel and shoot everyone on sight,​
> Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.
> 
> BTW, soldiers are captured not kidnapped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dunce, digging tunnels into a sovereign territory IS a violation of international law, you like it or not.
> 
> Against civilians, against soldiers, against the wind.....
> 
> Just saying!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those tunnels did not cross any borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinbrain can see the Israeli/Gaza "border from his living room.
> 
> Oh, wait, there is no Israel, therefore there can be no borders.....
> and the "Palestinians" have broken no law, much less International law.
> 
> Yeah......
Click to expand...

Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.


----------



## JoelT1

No history of palestinians They never existed

Ancient history of the Jews


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews


Another Israeli lie.
--------------
The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...


No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land

American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
Click to expand...

*Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.

The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
------------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​

The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.
> 
> The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> ------------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...


It’s hilarious to watch you repeatedly cut and paste snippets from different documents at different points in time and ipso facto invent your 
_Magical Kingdom of Pally’Land_


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.



P F Tinmore said:


> Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.



*(COMMENT)*

There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.

The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979). 

Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.

With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.

And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):  

"Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.

"It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.

Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

From today PA controls Gaza crossings


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979).
> 
> Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.
> 
> And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):
> 
> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.
> 
> 
> "It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.
> 
> Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.


That is true. Even though the war was fought inside Palestine, Palestine (who had no army) was not a party of the conflict. The armistice lines were drawn around and through Palestine to separate the armed forces of those involved. Since the armistice lines specifically were not to be political or territorial boundaries, they had no affect on Palestine's territory or international borders. Palestine remained intact but was divided into three areas of occupation.

Since the armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza went through Palestine, and since they were not borders, it was still Palestine on both sides. To say that the Palestinians violate Israel's territorial integrity is simply not true.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,

In both cases here, it is entirely an open and boldface misrepresentation of the facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.
> 
> The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> ------------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The passage in question does not say:  Palestine was the Successor State to Turkey --- not at all.  It says *"the Permanent Court of International Justice a suit arising out of the alleged refusal on the part of the Government of Palestine, and consequently also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, since the year 1921."*  You may recall from your history, that the Mandate Civil Administration assumed control over the territory in June 1921.  Both the two PCIJ Judgments use the same language:

 •  A02 --- *Judgment No. 2 30 August 1924 
•  A05 --- Judgment of 26 March 1925  (See Page 7)
*​

While Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne deals with nationality, it does not establish political sovereignty.  Even in the case of nationality, the assignment is to the Government of Palestine under the Administration of the Allied Powers selected Mandate; Great Britain.  British civil administration of Palestine began in 1920.  Absent the British Administration, there was no Arab self-governing framework.  

Most Respectfully,
R










Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This is mostly gibberish.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979).
> 
> Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.
> 
> And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):
> 
> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.
> 
> 
> "It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.
> 
> Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Even though the war was fought inside Palestine, Palestine (who had no army) was not a party of the conflict. The armistice lines were drawn around and through Palestine to separate the armed forces of those involved. Since the armistice lines specifically were not to be political or territorial boundaries, they had no affect on Palestine's territory or international borders. Palestine remained intact but was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Since the armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza went through Palestine, and since they were not borders, it was still Palestine on both sides. To say that the Palestinians violate Israel's territorial integrity is simply not true.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There are no Armistice Line today.  Other than a set of Historical Reference points, with relationship to the Arab Palestinians bounded by Jordan and Egypt, the borders are with Israel.

Israel exercised the right of self-determination...  *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.  

CHAPTER I *- Article 2(7) - *UN CHARTER
Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are *essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter*; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
To say that Israel, under the current configuration in which the territorial sovereignty is recognized nw expanded to the limits to which the former Mandate of Palestine once applied.  That would make the conflict a "Civil War" between factions _*(as opposed to an occupation)*_ and the West Bank and Gaza Strip rogue territories.  That means "no occupation" under the Arab Palestinian criteria.

IF it is a purely domestic issue (as you claim) THEN the complaint that Israel has done this or that is in violation of Customary and IHL is not more serious than the Annexation f the Crimea by Russia, or the reincorporation of Tibet by China.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> In both cases here, it is entirely an open and boldface misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.
> 
> The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> ------------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The passage in question does not say:  Palestine was the Successor State to Turkey --- not at all.  It says *"the Permanent Court of International Justice a suit arising out of the alleged refusal on the part of the Government of Palestine, and consequently also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, since the year 1921."*  You may recall from your history, that the Mandate Civil Administration assumed control over the territory in June 1921.  Both the two PCIJ Judgments use the same language:
> 
> •  A02 --- *Judgment No. 2 30 August 1924
> •  A05 --- Judgment of 26 March 1925  (See Page 7)
> *​
> 
> While Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne deals with nationality, it does not establish political sovereignty.  Even in the case of nationality, the assignment is to the Government of Palestine under the Administration of the Allied Powers selected Mandate; Great Britain.  British civil administration of Palestine began in 1920.  Absent the British Administration, there was no Arab self-governing framework.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.


Indeed, that was before Palestine became a state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is mostly gibberish.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979).
> 
> Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.
> 
> And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):
> 
> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.
> 
> 
> "It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.
> 
> Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Even though the war was fought inside Palestine, Palestine (who had no army) was not a party of the conflict. The armistice lines were drawn around and through Palestine to separate the armed forces of those involved. Since the armistice lines specifically were not to be political or territorial boundaries, they had no affect on Palestine's territory or international borders. Palestine remained intact but was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Since the armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza went through Palestine, and since they were not borders, it was still Palestine on both sides. To say that the Palestinians violate Israel's territorial integrity is simply not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are no Armistice Line today.  Other than a set of Historical Reference points, with relationship to the Arab Palestinians bounded by Jordan and Egypt, the borders are with Israel.
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination...  *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> CHAPTER I *- Article 2(7) - *UN CHARTER
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are *essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter*; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
> To say that Israel, under the current configuration in which the territorial sovereignty is recognized nw expanded to the limits to which the former Mandate of Palestine once applied.  That would make the conflict a "Civil War" between factions _*(as opposed to an occupation)*_ and the West Bank and Gaza Strip rogue territories.  That means "no occupation" under the Arab Palestinian criteria.
> 
> IF it is a purely domestic issue (as you claim) THEN the complaint that Israel has done this or that is in violation of Customary and IHL is not more serious than the Annexation f the Crimea by Russia, or the reincorporation of Tibet by China.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Israel exercised the right of self-determination... *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.


Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is mostly gibberish.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979).
> 
> Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.
> 
> And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):
> 
> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.
> 
> 
> "It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.
> 
> Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Even though the war was fought inside Palestine, Palestine (who had no army) was not a party of the conflict. The armistice lines were drawn around and through Palestine to separate the armed forces of those involved. Since the armistice lines specifically were not to be political or territorial boundaries, they had no affect on Palestine's territory or international borders. Palestine remained intact but was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Since the armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza went through Palestine, and since they were not borders, it was still Palestine on both sides. To say that the Palestinians violate Israel's territorial integrity is simply not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are no Armistice Line today.  Other than a set of Historical Reference points, with relationship to the Arab Palestinians bounded by Jordan and Egypt, the borders are with Israel.
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination...  *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> CHAPTER I *- Article 2(7) - *UN CHARTER
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are *essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter*; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
> To say that Israel, under the current configuration in which the territorial sovereignty is recognized nw expanded to the limits to which the former Mandate of Palestine once applied.  That would make the conflict a "Civil War" between factions _*(as opposed to an occupation)*_ and the West Bank and Gaza Strip rogue territories.  That means "no occupation" under the Arab Palestinian criteria.
> 
> IF it is a purely domestic issue (as you claim) THEN the complaint that Israel has done this or that is in violation of Customary and IHL is not more serious than the Annexation f the Crimea by Russia, or the reincorporation of Tibet by China.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination... *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
Click to expand...


I'm not finding anything in the news to confirm your claim.

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> In both cases here, it is entirely an open and boldface misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians They never existed
> 
> Ancient history of the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.
> 
> The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> ------------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The passage in question does not say:  Palestine was the Successor State to Turkey --- not at all.  It says *"the Permanent Court of International Justice a suit arising out of the alleged refusal on the part of the Government of Palestine, and consequently also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, since the year 1921."*  You may recall from your history, that the Mandate Civil Administration assumed control over the territory in June 1921.  Both the two PCIJ Judgments use the same language:
> 
> •  A02 --- *Judgment No. 2 30 August 1924
> •  A05 --- Judgment of 26 March 1925  (See Page 7)
> *​
> 
> While Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne deals with nationality, it does not establish political sovereignty.  Even in the case of nationality, the assignment is to the Government of Palestine under the Administration of the Allied Powers selected Mandate; Great Britain.  British civil administration of Palestine began in 1920.  Absent the British Administration, there was no Arab self-governing framework.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that was before Palestine became a state.
Click to expand...


A state of Pal'istan?

Link?


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Um, “palestinians” are Arabs. 22 Arab countries exist More than ample self-determination
> 
> Jews were originally called “palestinians” in the British Mandate It’s a bogus name
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were not a Party to the agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.
> 
> Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clearly show that you do not know the issue and do not care to know it.
> 
> There were FOUR Mandates after WWI out of the Ottoman Empire.
> The ARABS/Muslims got 99% of the land, which was not theirs, but had been conquered over a period of 1300 years by Arab Muslims, Christians and the Ottoman Turks.
> 
> Lebanon and Syrian were under French management.  Iraq and Palestine/Israel were under the British.
> 
> Jordan is part of the Mandate for Palestine. It was known as TransJordan.  It was to be part of the Jewish homeland until 1922 when the British decided that the Jews did not need that land, without asking them, and gave it to descendants of Mohammad who had just been kicked out of Arabia, their very ancient homeland.
> 
> The British decided that the Jews did not, after all, need a sovereign homeland, and they decided to keep the rest for themselves.
> That upset the Jews and the Arabs living on the land.
> 
> You confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the other three Mandates for some reason.
> You do not specify what agreement that was.
> Who was supposed to agree about it and for what purpose.
> 
> The Ottomans LOST the war for siding with Germany.
> 
> It was up to the Allies to decide what to do with it.
> No complaints from the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon, Iraq and Syrian.
> But then, the minority indigenous of those lands were not allowed to have any voice and had no power to stop the Allies from cutting the land as they did.
> Not the Kurds, the Yazidis, the Assyrians, etc, etc, etc
> 
> So, as long as those three mandates ended up fully in Arab Muslim hands, the Muslims were happy.
> 
> Jews win sovereignty over just a little 20% of what had been promised them on their traditional Ancient Homeland , and all hell breaks lose.
> 
> And you cannot see where the issue is.
> 
> You cannot explain why the indigenous people of the land should have less of a right to sovereignty to the land then the Arabs who invaded, or the Turks who invaded, or any other invader to the land of Israel.
> 
> The explanation to the refusal to allow Jews to have sovereignty on their ancient homeland is easy to know.  It can be found very easily in the writings by Christians and Muslims of the first 7 centuries of the modern era.
> 
> Jews did not attack Arabs when the were expelled from Gaza in 1920.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from TranJordan in 1925.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from Hebron and Sfad in 1929.
> Jews did not attack Arabs when they were expelled from the very Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem or from all of Judea and Samaria in 1948.
> 
> And I am talking about firing rockets, suicide belts, or any other out of this world way of attacking Arabs which would have forced them to give up those areas, as Arabs have been doing in order to force Jews to give up more and more of what is sovereign or historically important to them as the indigenous people of the land.
> 
> Be it the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Arabs have refused to share.  Be it any place where Jews consider it important to their history, culture or religion, the Muslims, for 1400 years, have found a way to deny the Jews any rights to them.
> 
> Jews must keep the sovereignty of their land.  As much of it as possible.  They do share it with the Arabs.  They do not attack Arabs if they come to visit or work for them or with them.
> The same is not true almost every time a Jew accidentally ends up on Areas A or B or Judea/Samaria.
> No Jew works in Areas A or B.  They are not allowed.
> Many Arabs work in Area C or in Jerusalem.
> 
> You, and quite a few others are indeed very confused about all the issues.  You do the confusing all on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe the Palestinians have a right to self determination?
> 
> The Jews engaged in aggression against the Palestinians as well.  There are no angels here.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




I hear Jews mindlessly spouting this rationale as if it contains some esoteric point of merit...the poster explains that because there are other Arab nation the Palestinians should excuse the organized theft of their lands and property and the forced expulsions...the position speaks volumes!!!!


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> In both cases here, it is entirely an open and boldface misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie.
> --------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.
> 
> The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> ------------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The passage in question does not say:  Palestine was the Successor State to Turkey --- not at all.  It says *"the Permanent Court of International Justice a suit arising out of the alleged refusal on the part of the Government of Palestine, and consequently also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, since the year 1921."*  You may recall from your history, that the Mandate Civil Administration assumed control over the territory in June 1921.  Both the two PCIJ Judgments use the same language:
> 
> •  A02 --- *Judgment No. 2 30 August 1924
> •  A05 --- Judgment of 26 March 1925  (See Page 7)
> *​
> 
> While Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne deals with nationality, it does not establish political sovereignty.  Even in the case of nationality, the assignment is to the Government of Palestine under the Administration of the Allied Powers selected Mandate; Great Britain.  British civil administration of Palestine began in 1920.  Absent the British Administration, there was no Arab self-governing framework.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that was before Palestine became a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A state of Pal'istan?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...




Palestine was a Colonial-Protectorate for most of its long history, applying nation/state qualifications is a weak ploy by uneducated Zionists like yourself...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is mostly gibberish.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice lines are specifically not to be political of territorial borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979).
> 
> Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.
> 
> And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):
> 
> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.
> 
> 
> "It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.
> 
> Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Even though the war was fought inside Palestine, Palestine (who had no army) was not a party of the conflict. The armistice lines were drawn around and through Palestine to separate the armed forces of those involved. Since the armistice lines specifically were not to be political or territorial boundaries, they had no affect on Palestine's territory or international borders. Palestine remained intact but was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Since the armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza went through Palestine, and since they were not borders, it was still Palestine on both sides. To say that the Palestinians violate Israel's territorial integrity is simply not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are no Armistice Line today.  Other than a set of Historical Reference points, with relationship to the Arab Palestinians bounded by Jordan and Egypt, the borders are with Israel.
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination...  *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> CHAPTER I *- Article 2(7) - *UN CHARTER
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are *essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter*; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
> To say that Israel, under the current configuration in which the territorial sovereignty is recognized nw expanded to the limits to which the former Mandate of Palestine once applied.  That would make the conflict a "Civil War" between factions _*(as opposed to an occupation)*_ and the West Bank and Gaza Strip rogue territories.  That means "no occupation" under the Arab Palestinian criteria.
> 
> IF it is a purely domestic issue (as you claim) THEN the complaint that Israel has done this or that is in violation of Customary and IHL is not more serious than the Annexation f the Crimea by Russia, or the reincorporation of Tibet by China.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination... *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not finding anything in the news to confirm your claim.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Its not news. It is olds.


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Why on Earth would British administrators refer to a Jewish minority as 'Palestinians?"


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> In both cases here, it is entirely an open and boldface misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of palestinians. Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land
> 
> American archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Lie,** lie,** lie,* Israel is based on lies.
> 
> The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that *Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.*
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> ------------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, *shall become Palestinian citizens.”*​
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The passage in question does not say:  Palestine was the Successor State to Turkey --- not at all.  It says *"the Permanent Court of International Justice a suit arising out of the alleged refusal on the part of the Government of Palestine, and consequently also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, since the year 1921."*  You may recall from your history, that the Mandate Civil Administration assumed control over the territory in June 1921.  Both the two PCIJ Judgments use the same language:
> 
> •  A02 --- *Judgment No. 2 30 August 1924
> •  A05 --- Judgment of 26 March 1925  (See Page 7)
> *​
> 
> While Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne deals with nationality, it does not establish political sovereignty.  Even in the case of nationality, the assignment is to the Government of Palestine under the Administration of the Allied Powers selected Mandate; Great Britain.  British civil administration of Palestine began in 1920.  Absent the British Administration, there was no Arab self-governing framework.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, and the meaning of Palestine, was defined as the territory to which the Mandate or Order in Council applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that was before Palestine became a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A state of Pal'istan?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a Colonial-Protectorate for most of its long history, applying nation/state qualifications is a weak ploy by uneducated Zionists like yourself...
Click to expand...


That's obviously not true...... You make yourself appear pompous.... and.....uneducate......with such......misinformed.....tirades.


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Most Israeli Jews today are indigenous to Israel and the Middle East or descendants of native Jews.
> 
> Arabs are indigenous to (Saudi) Arabia,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
> Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
> Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.
> 
> Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.
> 
> Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
> Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
> Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.
> 
> Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.
> 
> Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




JoelT1 said:


> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Wrong Canaanites were the original natives


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ventura77 said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would British administrators refer to a Jewish minority as 'Palestinians?"
Click to expand...

It was a political thing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is mostly gibberish.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is another one of those, propaganda sounds bites.  It has just enough truth in it to fool the casual observer.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The General *Armistice Agreement between the Egyptian-Israeli Governments* S/1264/Corr.1 23 February 1949 has been superseded by the Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel.  Article XII, Paragraph 2, states that  the Armistice l "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The peaces settlement between the parties was achieved through the *Peace Treaty between Egypt-Israel* (MAR 1979).
> 
> Article II of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty addresses the *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip.  The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable.  Each will *respect the territorial integrity of the other*, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> With the establishment of the treaty, the Armistice is dissolved.  There is no Armistice Line.
> 
> And even if there was, as in the time prior to the treaty, an Armistice Line is protected to the same degree as the permanent border.  Under the *Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States* (A/RES/25/2625 1970):
> 
> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines,* established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​The entire issue of Borders, as the *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) --- Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) very well knows as been a set element with the Permanent Status of Negotiation under the Article V of *The Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements* Oslo Accords.
> 
> 
> "It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest."​People should not allow themselves to be confused by claims of what the Arab Palestinians have massaged into something that sounds both sound and valid; it is far from it.
> 
> Finally:  As is "customary" in law *[a general and consistent practice of states --- from the time before the Greco-Turkish War (1897) ⇒ Gulf Wars]*, the Arab Palestinians should be subject to "War Reparation" penalties and payments intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during the Israeli-Arab Palestinian conflict _(1988 to present)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no (repeat: NO) General of Specific Armistice between the Israelis and any element representing themselves as acting on behalf of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Even though the war was fought inside Palestine, Palestine (who had no army) was not a party of the conflict. The armistice lines were drawn around and through Palestine to separate the armed forces of those involved. Since the armistice lines specifically were not to be political or territorial boundaries, they had no affect on Palestine's territory or international borders. Palestine remained intact but was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Since the armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza went through Palestine, and since they were not borders, it was still Palestine on both sides. To say that the Palestinians violate Israel's territorial integrity is simply not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are no Armistice Line today.  Other than a set of Historical Reference points, with relationship to the Arab Palestinians bounded by Jordan and Egypt, the borders are with Israel.
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination...  *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> CHAPTER I *- Article 2(7) - *UN CHARTER
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are *essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter*; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
> To say that Israel, under the current configuration in which the territorial sovereignty is recognized nw expanded to the limits to which the former Mandate of Palestine once applied.  That would make the conflict a "Civil War" between factions _*(as opposed to an occupation)*_ and the West Bank and Gaza Strip rogue territories.  That means "no occupation" under the Arab Palestinian criteria.
> 
> IF it is a purely domestic issue (as you claim) THEN the complaint that Israel has done this or that is in violation of Customary and IHL is not more serious than the Annexation f the Crimea by Russia, or the reincorporation of Tibet by China.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel exercised the right of self-determination... *IF* we follow your logic, - that everything west of the Jordan River is Arab Palestinians --- *THEN* it is a NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) and entirely a domestic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not finding anything in the news to confirm your claim.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not news. It is olds.
Click to expand...


You have been bumping your head too hard at Friday prayers?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would British administrators refer to a Jewish minority as 'Palestinians?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a political thing.
Click to expand...


Yours is a side-step thing.


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Most Israeli Jews today are indigenous to Israel and the Middle East or descendants of native Jews.
> 
> Arabs are indigenous to (Saudi) Arabia,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
> Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
> Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.
> 
> Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.
> 
> Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never claimed Israel Israel is harmonious, clearly you have not read my posts.  Israel is diverse, bringing in Jews and cultures from every where in the world.  On top of that you have tensions between the religious and the secular. You have a diversity of opinion on the Palestinian situation as well.  In fact Israel is like many other countries...
> 
> On the rest, I will fall back on genetics since you don't seem to recognize a cultural basis for rights.  You make the same arguments some of the pro-Israelis make when they insist the Palestinians have no real link to the area.  Even though they show some evidence of European stock they are far closer to the other Jewish groups and the Palestinians then they are to Europe.
> 
> jewish palestinian genetics - Google Search:
> 
> 
> 
> Which raises the question...why single them out and do you apply the same purity standard to the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home (where they had lived for centuries) minding their own business when the Zionists came down from Europe with the *stated goal* of colonizing Palestine and taking it over for themselves.
> 
> So, who is the initial aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fairytail
> 
> Who were the aggressors during the Arab Pogroms against Jews in Palestine before there was Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pogroms are one issue, this is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same issue, the same chain of events.
> Team Palestine always dodges the issue.
> Jewish state and return, was not just a "European project", it was a call that  from within the Jewish community in Palestine.The pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were the same as the pogroms in Europe, prior to Zionism.
> 
> Zionism was a natural answer, not the cause - to European aggression, as much as Arab aggression.
> 
> Q. You can understand who was the aggressor that lead to Kurdish independence movement, but not the  the movement for the Jews in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Not according to DNA evidence uncovered by a Jewish geneticist...90% of Israelis have no genetic relation to ancient Sephardic Jews...they are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...try educating yourself please...


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” originate from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt and other Arab countries. Arafat was Egyptian. Common “palestinian” surname is al-Masri “the Egyptian”
> 
> Arabs have more than sufficient self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would British administrators refer to a Jewish minority as 'Palestinians?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a political thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yours is a side-step thing.
Click to expand...



Yours is a propaganda thing...British officials referred to the Arab majority as Palestinians...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.



Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the original “palestinians” dating back to the Roman Empire renaming ancient Israel by that fake name palestine
> 
> And Jews were later first called “palestinians” in the British Mandate
> 
> So, the actual historical “palestinians” AKA Jews have self-determination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the 1st part of the post is correct.
> 
> But the 2nd part is just a conversation non-starter (if You want to have a conversation with the pro-Palestinian activist). There're always two sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would British administrators refer to a Jewish minority as 'Palestinians?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a political thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yours is a side-step thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is a propaganda thing...British officials referred to the Arab majority as Palestinians...
Click to expand...


Sorry, pointless. Here in the Great Satan there are references to folks as Bible Belt'ers. There are colloquial references to folks in the Appalachian mountains. Brits refer to us here in the Great Satan as Yanks.

Your.....propaganda.....is........pointless. <------(note my use of "......")


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...they are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...try educating yourself please...



The poster spouting the long and thoroughly debunked Khazar nonsense wants us to educate ourselves.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...they are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...try educating yourself please...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The poster spouting the long and thoroughly debunked Khazar nonsense wants us to educate ourselves.
Click to expand...


I'll bet $1.00 he isn't aware the former, wannbe, self-entitled "Pal'istanian"; Yassir "_guess how much money I stole_" Arafat was Egyptian.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
Click to expand...


There are no foreign governments involved in the conflict at this point.  The conflict (since the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan) is between two competing domestic governments.  

Immigration (return) is irrelevant to sovereignty.  So are majorities.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no foreign governments involved in the conflict at this point.  The conflict (since the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan) is between two competing domestic governments.
> 
> Immigration (return) is irrelevant to sovereignty.  So are majorities.
Click to expand...

What part of my post is not true?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
Click to expand...

Israel was born 3000 years ago.  It is the homeland of the Israelites who followed the G_D of Abraham, as it has been since then.

The vast majority you keep referring to are foreign Arabs, from Arabia, who as Muslims insist that Jews have no sovereign rights anywhere, including on their ancient homeland.

No one should follow the desires of foreign invaders who have been mistreating the indigenous people of the land, the followers of the G_D of Abraham, for 1300 years and continued to do so the whole 100 years after it.

If military force is what anyone understands.

The Jews understood the military power of the Muslim Arab invaders.

The Muslims understood the military power of the European Crusaders.

The Crusaders understood the military power of the Ottoman Empire.

The Ottoman Empire understood the military power of the Allies.

The Jews understood the military power of the Arabs and British.

The Arabs and British understood the military power of the Israeli Army.

The Arabs and Lebanese, and others, continue to understand the military power of Israel as it defends and protects its lands.

Military power is great, when it is truly necessary, when there is no other way to protect one's land and one's life/population from the endless attacks of any foreign power.  Arab, Muslim, Christian, Iranian, Lebanese, Syrian.

Am Israel Chai!


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no foreign governments involved in the conflict at this point.  The conflict (since the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan) is between two competing domestic governments.
> 
> Immigration (return) is irrelevant to sovereignty.  So are majorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my post is not true?
Click to expand...

Your endless mistake, or endless fake idea, that ONLY people born on the land have the right to the land.

The indigenous people have the first claim to the land.  That would be the Jewish people.
They were to share the land, the Muslim Jew haters would have none of it, due to their Islamic upbringing, which is a foreign concept in the Land of Israel, as it comes from Arabia.

Want to keep on playing the "Only those born on the land have any rights to it" game?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
Click to expand...


The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled for a period of time by the conquering Turks as part of an Islamist colonial project. The collapse of that colonial project was followed by the Turks releasing all rights and title to the territory. 

You always have the option to buy a horse and sword, declare gee-had and reconquer the area. 

Your caliphate of one. 

Super.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no foreign governments involved in the conflict at this point.  The conflict (since the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan) is between two competing domestic governments.
> 
> Immigration (return) is irrelevant to sovereignty.  So are majorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my post is not true?
Click to expand...



You like to post little half-truths, ignore large true sections of law and create red herrings with irrelevant comments.  There is no international sovereign government or State occupying any portion of the territory in question.  There are two (three) domestic governments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no foreign governments involved in the conflict at this point.  The conflict (since the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan) is between two competing domestic governments.
> 
> Immigration (return) is irrelevant to sovereignty.  So are majorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my post is not true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You like to post little half-truths, ignore large true sections of law and create red herrings with irrelevant comments.  There is no international sovereign government or State occupying any portion of the territory in question.  There are two (three) domestic governments.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no foreign governments involved in the conflict at this point.  The conflict (since the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan) is between two competing domestic governments.
> 
> Immigration (return) is irrelevant to sovereignty.  So are majorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my post is not true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You like to post little half-truths, ignore large true sections of law and create red herrings with irrelevant comments.  There is no international sovereign government or State occupying any portion of the territory in question.  There are two (three) domestic governments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...

That always seems to be your half baked response as you do not understand the laws, Accords, history, or anything else which is being dealt with.

None of our responses are deflections.
Your mind has a hard time analyzing and dealing with any facts.
At least.....the facts concerning any and all rights granted to the Jewish people, and ONLY the Jewish People.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...they are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...try educating yourself please...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The poster spouting the long and thoroughly debunked Khazar nonsense wants us to educate ourselves.
Click to expand...



LOL...Sorry but the DNA evidence for Khazar ancestry is confirmed by an Israeli geneticist...try educating yourself before posting


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
Click to expand...



To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!


----------



## Ventura77

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
Click to expand...



Exactly correct PF...literally every aspect of the Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly correct PF...literally every aspect of the Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE...
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nice deflection.



In other words, you have no response. And of course you don't because there is no foreign government operating in Israel/Palestine.

No more so than a foreign government is occupying Spain in Catalonia. Two domestic governments. One with sovereignty and one seeking sovereignty. It is the same in Israel.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
Click to expand...


The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time. 

The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
Click to expand...



Clearly you occupy a fantasy world in which you can parse and distort to your liking...here in the real world however we have the admission of leading Zionist Jew who were there in May of 48 and were quite candid about the 'ethnic cleansing' they conducted...Your argument is with David Ben Gurion...Begin...Dyan...etc...etc.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
Click to expand...

Susha,

Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?

Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?

How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you have no response. And of course you don't because there is no foreign government operating in Israel/Palestine.
> 
> No more so than a foreign government is occupying Spain in Catalonia. Two domestic governments. One with sovereignty and one seeking sovereignty. It is the same in Israel.
Click to expand...




Here yet again you lead with preferred ignorance: Israel is a criminal occupier according to all legitimate international legal consensus...how you can invoke a word like 'sovereignty' against criminal occupation is indicative of the delusional nature of the deranged Zionist mind


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
Click to expand...




No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you have no response. And of course you don't because there is no foreign government operating in Israel/Palestine.
> 
> No more so than a foreign government is occupying Spain in Catalonia. Two domestic governments. One with sovereignty and one seeking sovereignty. It is the same in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here yet again you lead with preferred ignorance: Israel is a criminal occupier according to all legitimate international legal consensus...how you can invoke a word like 'sovereignty' against criminal occupation is indicative of the delusional nature of the deranged Zionist mind
Click to expand...

How about you show us some links where it says what you have posted here?
In International Law and any other valid Accord, etc.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
Click to expand...

Palestine IS a Jewish Homeland.  THE ancient Jewish Homeland, which continued to be their ancient homeland, no matter how many invaders walked through it.

Palestine IS Israel.

Syria Palestinia was the artificial name given to Judea/Israel by the Romans.

The Christian British, who did not like Jews thanks to their teachings, named the Mandate Palestine, instead of its known name -  Israel.

Dream, have nightmares all you like.

For 3000 years it has been known as Israel, the land of the Israelites/Judeans/Jews.

The name may have changed, the people are the same.

STOP attempting to steal the land simply because it belongs to the Jews, the people both Christianity and Islam cannot stop insulting, attacking, harming and murdering on a daily basis.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
Click to expand...


What illegal immigration would that be, chuckles?

I'm prepared to point and laugh at your usual saliva slinging tirade of nonsensical banter so knock yourself out.


----------



## JoelT1

Palestine is from a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel, about 2000 years ago. Palestine referred to Philistines, ancient enemies of the Israelites. Philistines were a non-indigenous, non-Semitic people from the Aegean called the Sea Peoples.

There are no such things as palestinians


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...



No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.


----------



## JoelT1

Philistines, Greek invaders to ancient Israel to whom palestine referred, became extinct about 2500 years ago.

There are no such things as palestinians


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
Click to expand...



LMFAO!!!!!  You clearly have absolutely no idea of the gibberish you spout...you don't even appear to be a competent propaganda parrot...FYI: The Mandate for Palestine did not bid the Zionists to conduct an ethnic cleansing and steal whatever they could grad---or drive out 800,000 Palestinians...

The international community has made it clear that virtually the entire world considers the Israeli occupied territories to be illegal and contrary to the principles of international law. Every year since 1967 (up until the Oslo Process started), the UN General Assembly passed the same resolution (always with lopsided votes like 150-2), stating that Israel is obligated to vacate the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, in accordance with UN Resolution 242.
The only reason that Israel is able to maintain its occupation of Palestinian land is that the U.S. routinely vetoes every Security Council resolution that would insist that Israel live up to its obligations under international law.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine IS a Jewish Homeland.  THE ancient Jewish Homeland, which continued to be their ancient homeland, no matter how many invaders walked through it.
> 
> Palestine IS Israel.
> 
> Syria Palestinia was the artificial name given to Judea/Israel by the Romans.
> 
> The Christian British, who did not like Jews thanks to their teachings, named the Mandate Palestine, instead of its known name -  Israel.
> 
> Dream, have nightmares all you like.
> 
> For 3000 years it has been known as Israel, the land of the Israelites/Judeans/Jews.
> 
> The name may have changed, the people are the same.
> 
> STOP attempting to steal the land simply because it belongs to the Jews, the people both Christianity and Islam cannot stop insulting, attacking, harming and murdering on a daily basis.
Click to expand...



Wrong yet again...the overwhelming majority population of Palestine since the late 7th has been Arab Palestinians...the Eastern European descendants of Khazar-converts to Judaism have zero DNA relation to the ancient Sephardic Jews and have less than no claim to one square inch of historic Palestine...


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not exist outside of the territory in question.  Therefore, it is not a foreign entity, but a domestic one.  You sure seem to have difficulty understanding sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What illegal immigration would that be, chuckles?
> 
> I'm prepared to point and laugh at your usual saliva slinging tirade of nonsensical banter so knock yourself out.
Click to expand...



OMG you are amazingly uneducated...has no one on the board explained the British policy to halt illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine?  Does The White Paper ring a bell you clueless drone??????


----------



## Shusha

There is nothing inherently illegal about the creation of a sovereign homeland and State for a people. Indeed, this has been the normal course of events over the past several hundred years with the dissolution of empires. 

Further Israel has specific legal entitlement based on the legal instruments put in place since 1920. 

That is the bottom line.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO!!!!!  You clearly have absolutely no idea of the gibberish you spout...you don't even appear to be a competent propaganda parrot...FYI: The Mandate for Palestine did not bid the Zionists to conduct an ethnic cleansing and steal whatever they could grad---or drive out 800,000 Palestinians...
> 
> The international community has made it clear that virtually the entire world considers the Israeli occupied territories to be illegal and contrary to the principles of international law. Every year since 1967 (up until the Oslo Process started), the UN General Assembly passed the same resolution (always with lopsided votes like 150-2), stating that Israel is obligated to vacate the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, in accordance with UN Resolution 242.
> The only reason that Israel is able to maintain its occupation of Palestinian land is that the U.S. routinely vetoes every Security Council resolution that would insist that Israel live up to its obligations under international law.
Click to expand...



Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I like this:   "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE."   You need to listen to a better talk radio host.



Ventura77 said:


> Exactly correct PF...literally every aspect of the Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE...


*(COMMENT)*

I mean, we really have to chuckle at this; if this is all the mantra you offer.  This is intellectually dishonest.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.


*(COMMENT)*

It really doesn't matter what your culture is, → where your linage originates, → or where you were personally born.  We all _(even the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ have the right of self-determination AND may freely determine our political status and pursue our collective economic, social and cultural development.   

The Arab Palestinian has not exclusivity to this right.  

By the way, the "Jewish Agency" was a requirement of the Allied Powers; under Article 4 of the Mandate.  Now the Arab Palestinian can complain all they want; but the fact of the matter is that several times the Arab Higher Committee was ask to to form a "Arab Agency" → but declined to participate in the develop of any self-governing institutions in the territory.  

The Government was not imposed by force.  The outbreak of hostilities between the Allied Powers and the Central Powers had consequences.  One of those consequence was the fall of four Empires; one of which is the Ottoman Empire that included the Middle East.  The territory that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are trying to claim, was not under Arab Sovereignty to start with; not for more than a thousand years.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, certainly you can say that in May 1948, the Regional Area was invaded by a half dozen Arab League States.  So yes, 'there is some truth to that statement.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary, it appears that YOU are the one who has difficulty comprehending: Israel is essentially occupied Palestine...UN recognition was basically paid for by Jewish political insiders to the extent that the newly established UN violated the letter and spirit of its own charter in recognizing a state whose declaration of statehood took place in the wake of a criminal ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Arab Palestinians!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What illegal immigration would that be, chuckles?
> 
> I'm prepared to point and laugh at your usual saliva slinging tirade of nonsensical banter so knock yourself out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OMG you are amazingly uneducated...has no one on the board explained the British policy to halt illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine?  Does The White Paper ring a bell you clueless drone??????
Click to expand...


Your tirades are hilarious. 

I suppose this is another of your usual tirades launched in defensive posturing in order to deflect from your abysmal ignorance of the facts. 

I'll ask again, what was illegal about Jewish immigration to Pal'istan?

Clean that unseemly drool from your keyboard before another saliva slinging tirade. 

Thanks, Louie.


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I like this:   "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE."   You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly correct PF...literally every aspect of the Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I mean, we really have to chuckle at this; if this is all the mantra you offer.  This is intellectually dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It really doesn't matter what your culture is, → where your linage originates, → or where you were personally born.  We all _(even the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ have the right of self-determination AND may freely determine our political status and pursue our collective economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian has not exclusivity to this right.
> 
> By the way, the "Jewish Agency" was a requirement of the Allied Powers; under Article 4 of the Mandate.  Now the Arab Palestinian can complain all they want; but the fact of the matter is that several times the Arab Higher Committee was ask to to form a "Arab Agency" → but declined to participate in the develop of any self-governing institutions in the territory.
> 
> The Government was not imposed by force.  The outbreak of hostilities between the Allied Powers and the Central Powers had consequences.  One of those consequence was the fall of four Empires; one of which is the Ottoman Empire that included the Middle East.  The territory that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are trying to claim, was not under Arab Sovereignty to start with; not for more than a thousand years.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, certainly you can say that in May 1948, the Regional Area was invaded by a half dozen Arab League States.  So yes, 'there is some truth to that statement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Wrong yet again...I think I would go into cardiac arrest if I ever encountered one of you delusional cultists who was capable of articulating the facts: 
The "Invading Arab Armies" Israeli Zionist myth debunked!
Rasheed Khalidi in "The Iron Cage"
"To revisit one of the most important of these myths about the infant state of Israel, the number of Arab armies that invaded Israel after it's establishment is described in a range of standard accounts as ranging from five to seven. However, there were only seven independent Arab states in 1948 (some hardly independent, and some hardly sates in any meaningful sense of the word), two of which,Saudi Arabia and Yemen, did not even have regular armies and no means of getting any armed forces they might have had to Palestine.Beyond his, of the five Arab regular Arab regular armies, one(That of Lebanon) never crossed the international frontier with Palestine,two(those of Iraq and Transjordan) scrupulously refrained from crossing the frontiers of the Jewish state laid down in the United Nation plan as per secret Jordanian understandings with both Britain and the Zionist leadership and thus never "invaded" Israel, and one ( that of Syria) made only minor inroads across the new Israeli state's frontiers.The only serious and long lasting incursion into the territory of the Jewish state as laid under the partition plan was that of the Egyptian army. Meanwhile the fiercest fighting during 48 war took place with the Jordanian army during multiple Israeli OFFENSIVES into area assigned by the UN to the Arab state. This story of an invasion by multiple, massive Arab armies, and other legends, is not just an important element of the Israeli myth of origin: it's a nearly universal myth."


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only criminal ethnic cleansing was the removal of the Jewish people in the neighbouring Arab states contrary to IHL as well as specific legal instruments of the time.
> 
> The rest was an internal conflict -- a civil war-- which resulted in the displacement of people on BOTH sides. Which was -- and is -- a direct result of Arab hostility.
> 
> 
> 
> Susha,
> 
> Is it considered a civil war when in 1920 Gaza was ethnically cleansed of Jews by the British?
> 
> Or when the Hashemites ethnically cleansed TransJordan of all Jewish inhabitants?
> 
> How about 1929 when Arabs attacked unarmed Jews in Hebron and then the British expelled the other Jews from that city, not allowing them to return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you're aware that illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine was the catalyst behind your typically one-sided comments?  The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What illegal immigration would that be, chuckles?
> 
> I'm prepared to point and laugh at your usual saliva slinging tirade of nonsensical banter so knock yourself out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OMG you are amazingly uneducated...has no one on the board explained the British policy to halt illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine?  Does The White Paper ring a bell you clueless drone??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your tirades are hilarious.
> 
> I suppose this is another of your usual tirades launched in defensive posturing in order to deflect from your abysmal ignorance of the facts.
> 
> I'll ask again, what was illegal about Jewish immigration to Pal'istan?
> 
> Clean that unseemly drool from your keyboard before another saliva slinging tirade.
> 
> Thanks, Louie.
Click to expand...



JOURNAL ARTICLE
*Illegal Jewish Immigration to Palestine under the British Mandate*
Walid Khalidi
Journal of Palestine Studies
Vol. 35, No. 4 (Summer 2006), pp. 63-68
Published by: University of California Press on behalf of the Institute for Palestine Studies
DOI: 10.1525/jps.2006.35.4.63
Stable URL: Illegal Jewish Immigration to Palestine under the British Mandate on JSTOR
Page Count: 6


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO!!!!!  You clearly have absolutely no idea of the gibberish you spout...you don't even appear to be a competent propaganda parrot...FYI: The Mandate for Palestine did not bid the Zionists to conduct an ethnic cleansing and steal whatever they could grad---or drive out 800,000 Palestinians...
> 
> The international community has made it clear that virtually the entire world considers the Israeli occupied territories to be illegal and contrary to the principles of international law. Every year since 1967 (up until the Oslo Process started), the UN General Assembly passed the same resolution (always with lopsided votes like 150-2), stating that Israel is obligated to vacate the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, in accordance with UN Resolution 242.
> The only reason that Israel is able to maintain its occupation of Palestinian land is that the U.S. routinely vetoes every Security Council resolution that would insist that Israel live up to its obligations under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.
Click to expand...




funny I was thinking the same thing about you...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> There is nothing inherently illegal about the creation of a sovereign homeland and State for a people. Indeed, this has been the normal course of events over the past several hundred years with the dissolution of empires.
> 
> Further Israel has specific legal entitlement based on the legal instruments put in place since 1920.
> 
> That is the bottom line.





Wrong yet again...your head is ridiculously foggy and ignorant...the legal questions surrounding the ethnic cleansing of Historic Palestine in 48 are inarguable...please familiarize yourself with them so as to spare yourself future embarrassment ...referring to historic conquests and imperial seizures seems to cast aside the 20th century establishment of international law and the property rights of native populations...Israel had zero entitlement...your ignorance is astounding


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Philistines, Greek invaders to ancient Israel to whom palestine referred, became extinct about 2500 years ago.
> 
> There are no such things as palestinians




You might want to explain this to the pre-state Zionist leaders who plotted to overthrow and expel these fictive people...the idiocy is numbing


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs themselves laugh: When were there any palestinians?!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Faith-washing: Friends of Sabeel provides cover for Terror


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...





Shusha said:


> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.





Ventura77 said:


> funny I was thinking the same thing about you...





Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)

Preamble: 
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.

Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.


----------



## Art__Allm

Shusha said:


> I guess the Arabs better hurry up and assimilate into the indigenous Jewish people then.



What a BS! Most Zionist settlers were white Europeans (Ashkenazi), they were descendants of Slavs and Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 10th century or even later.
Semitic Jews (Mizrahi) were fooled by white Ashkenazi to move to Israel, due to Mossad's false flag attacks in Arab countries tensions were created between Arabs of Jewish and Muslim persuasion, and Jewish Arabs are de facto second class citizens in Israel, that is the reason why they hate white Ashkenazim so much.



Shusha said:


> By adopting their language...



Hebrew was a dead language even at the time of Jesus Christ, he spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was just a language, used in liturgy. Crazy Zionists invented "Ivrith" in the 20th century, this artificial language has nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew, because nobody knows how the words were pronounced in this ancient and for more than 2000 years dead language. Today Ivrith is basically a Slavic langauge in which some words are taken from Hebrew, with an invented pronounciation.

The native language of Ashkenazi was Yiddish, a Slavic language with German vocabulary.
The native language of Arab Jews is Arabic language.
So any Jew, who settles in Israel, has to learn an invented language (Ivrith), which was never a native language neither to Jews who were born before 1948, nor to their ancestors.




Shusha said:


> ...their religion...



Most Zionists are atheists, they do not care a rat's ass about Judaism. If you are a Russian who eats pork and speaks only Russian, but can prove that you had a Jewish grandmother, you can move to Israel and get Israeli citizenship.




Shusha said:


> ...their culture and their system of values and by becoming a part of their soviety and under their government.



Ashkenazim and Arab Jews have totally different cultures, they speak different languages, they hate each others in Israel. They even have segregated schools, because white Jews think that swarthy Oriental Jews have a lower IQ.

The only thing that unites Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews is their believe in their own "choosinesses", any Arab Jews is culturally and linguistically closer to Arabs, and any Russian Jew is culturally and linguistically closer to Russians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the Arabs better hurry up and assimilate into the indigenous Jewish people then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a BS! Most Zionist settlers were white Europeans (Ashkenazi), they were descendants of Slavs and Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 10th century or even later.
> Semitic Jews (Mizrahi) were fooled by white Ashkenazi to move to Israel, due to Mossad's false flag attacks in Arab countries tensions were created between Arabs of Jewish and Muslim persuasion, and Jewish Arabs are de facto second class citizens in Israel, that is the reason why they hate white Ashkenazim so much.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> By adopting their language...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebrew was a dead language even at the time of Jesus Christ, he spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was just a language, used in liturgy. Crazy Zionists invented "Ivrith" in the 20th century, this artificial language has nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew, because nobody knows how the words were pronounced in this ancient and for more than 2000 years dead language. Today Ivrith is basically a Slavic langauge in which some words are taken from Hebrew, with an invented pronounciation.
> 
> The native language of Ashkenazi was Yiddish, a Slavic language with German vocabulary.
> The native language of Arab Jews is Arabic language.
> So any Jew, who settles in Israel, has to learn an invented language (Ivrith), which was never a native language neither to Jews who were born before 1948, nor to their ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their religion...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Zionists are atheists, they do not care a rat's ass about Judaism. If you are a Russian who eats pork and speaks only Russian, but can prove that you had a Jewish grandmother, you can move to Israel and get Israeli citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their culture and their system of values and by becoming a part of their soviety and under their government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashkenazim and Arab Jews have totally different cultures, they speak different languages, they hate each others in Israel. They even have segregated schools, because white Jews think that swarthy Oriental Jews have a lower IQ.
> 
> The only thing that unites Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews is their believe in their own "choosinesses", any Arab Jews is culturally and linguistically closer to Arabs, and any Russian Jew is culturally and linguistically closer to Russians.
Click to expand...

The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism.

Speaking a language, the Arabic language, does not make one an Arab, any more than speaking English makes one an indigenous English person.

But, believe in all you wrote all you want.  You will never be able to change the truth, no matter how many times you repeat it or spit on the Jews, the way you were taught to do.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> It really doesn't matter what your culture is, → where your linage originates, → or where you were personally born.  We all _(even the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ have the right of self-determination AND may freely determine our political status and pursue our collective economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian has not exclusivity to this right.







> Well, certainly you can say that in May 1948, the* Regional Area *was invaded by a half dozen Arab League States.  So yes, 'there is some truth to that statement.





Ventura77 said:


> Wrong yet again...
> 
> Beyond his, of the five Arab regular Arab regular armies, one(That of Lebanon) never crossed the international frontier with Palestine,two(those of Iraq and Transjordan) scrupulously refrained from crossing the frontiers of the Jewish state laid down in the United Nation plan as per secret Jordanian understandings with both Britain and the Zionist leadership and thus never "invaded" Israel, and one ( that of Syria) made only minor inroads across the new Israeli state's frontiers.The only serious and long lasting incursion into the territory of the Jewish state as laid under the partition plan was that of the Egyptian army. Meanwhile the fiercest fighting during 48 war took place with the Jordanian army during multiple Israeli OFFENSIVES into area assigned by the UN to the Arab state. This story of an invasion by multiple, massive Arab armies, and other legends, is not just an important element of the Israeli myth of origin: it's a nearly universal myth."



The Regional Area, delineated by the Mandate for Palestine, was invaded by Jordan, Egypt, Syria by your own admission above, along with Iraqi forces.  

All of those four States crossed an international border into territory NOT under their sovereignty with military forces and the intention of removing the government of territory NOT under their sovereignty.  That is the very definition of an act of aggression and war.  

UNGA 181 was rejected by the Arabs.  Had it been accepted, there would have been NO need for military action.  The new borders between Israel and Jordan/Egypt would have been set with the swipe of a pen.  The invasion of armies across international lines was entirely unnecessary if a peaceful acceptance of UNGA 181 was the goal.


----------



## JoelT1

Most Israeli Jews are indigenous to Israel and the region, linked by DNA.

Archaeologists discover ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Interesting.



Ventura77 said:


> Wrong yet again...I think I would go into cardiac arrest if I ever encountered one of you delusional cultists who was capable of articulating the facts:
> The "Invading Arab Armies" Israeli Zionist myth debunked!
> Rasheed Khalidi in "The Iron Cage"
> "To revisit one of the most important of these myths about the infant state of Israel, the number of Arab armies that invaded Israel after it's establishment is described in a range of standard accounts as ranging from five to seven. However, there were only seven independent Arab states in 1948 (some hardly independent, and some hardly sates in any meaningful sense of the word), two of which,Saudi Arabia and Yemen, did not even have regular armies and no means of getting any armed forces they might have had to Palestine.Beyond his, of the five Arab regular Arab regular armies, one(That of Lebanon) never crossed the international frontier with Palestine,two(those of Iraq and Transjordan) scrupulously refrained from crossing the frontiers of the Jewish state laid down in the United Nation plan as per secret Jordanian understandings with both Britain and the Zionist leadership and thus never "invaded" Israel, and one ( that of Syria) made only minor inroads across the new Israeli state's frontiers.The only serious and long lasting incursion into the territory of the Jewish state as laid under the partition plan was that of the Egyptian army. Meanwhile the fiercest fighting during 48 war took place with the Jordanian army during multiple Israeli OFFENSIVES into area assigned by the UN to the Arab state. This story of an invasion by multiple, massive Arab armies, and other legends, is not just an important element of the Israeli myth of origin: it's a nearly universal myth."


*(COMMENT)*

Don't confuse the shear number of Arab League member participating in the 1948 War of Independence, which is different from the *Arab League Order of Battle* which outlines the magnitude and contributions made to the war effort --- and the overall organization.  This Arab OB was faced an Opposing Force (OPFOR) in the form of the *Israeli Order of Battle *for the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.







 ​
If you examine the OB, you will find the combat ration is about 3+:2, in favor of the Arabs.  (Ground Forces Only)  The Saudi Contingent of 1 Brigade was assigned to the Egyptian 3d Division.  The Egyptian Army had a paper strength of 50,000. But the initial deployment was ≈ 10,000 Israel and gradually grew to 40,000 by the end of 1948, and included volunteers from Sudan, Tunisia and Libya.

Yemeni Volunteers were assigned to support Jordanians moving on Jerusalem. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny I was thinking the same thing about you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
Click to expand...




Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )

The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again...I think I would go into cardiac arrest if I ever encountered one of you delusional cultists who was capable of articulating the facts:
> The "Invading Arab Armies" Israeli Zionist myth debunked!
> Rasheed Khalidi in "The Iron Cage"
> "To revisit one of the most important of these myths about the infant state of Israel, the number of Arab armies that invaded Israel after it's establishment is described in a range of standard accounts as ranging from five to seven. However, there were only seven independent Arab states in 1948 (some hardly independent, and some hardly sates in any meaningful sense of the word), two of which,Saudi Arabia and Yemen, did not even have regular armies and no means of getting any armed forces they might have had to Palestine.Beyond his, of the five Arab regular Arab regular armies, one(That of Lebanon) never crossed the international frontier with Palestine,two(those of Iraq and Transjordan) scrupulously refrained from crossing the frontiers of the Jewish state laid down in the United Nation plan as per secret Jordanian understandings with both Britain and the Zionist leadership and thus never "invaded" Israel, and one ( that of Syria) made only minor inroads across the new Israeli state's frontiers.The only serious and long lasting incursion into the territory of the Jewish state as laid under the partition plan was that of the Egyptian army. Meanwhile the fiercest fighting during 48 war took place with the Jordanian army during multiple Israeli OFFENSIVES into area assigned by the UN to the Arab state. This story of an invasion by multiple, massive Arab armies, and other legends, is not just an important element of the Israeli myth of origin: it's a nearly universal myth."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't confuse the shear number of Arab League member participating in the 1948 War of Independence, which is different from the *Arab League Order of Battle* which outlines the magnitude and contributions made to the war effort --- and the overall organization.  This Arab OB was faced an Opposing Force (OPFOR) in the form of the *Israeli Order of Battle *for the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
> 
> View attachment 158039
> View attachment 158042​
> If you examine the OB, you will find the combat ration is about 3+:2, in favor of the Arabs.  (Ground Forces Only)  The Saudi Contingent of 1 Brigade was assigned to the Egyptian 3d Division.  The Egyptian Army had a paper strength of 50,000. But the initial deployment was ≈ 10,000 Israel and gradually grew to 40,000 by the end of 1948, and included volunteers from Sudan, Tunisia and Libya.
> 
> Yemeni Volunteers were assigned to support Jordanians moving on Jerusalem.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Face the obvious fact that not unlike everything else the Jews claim the 'Five Arab Armies' was a bald-faced lie...the Jewish forces were numerically superior to the fragmented opposing forces, which entered the fray days after the Zionist ethnic-cleansing offensive began---and not---as Zionist propaganda affirms---after the declaration of statehood, which was also illegitimate...


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians” a made-up word by the British

Ancient Jewish village in Israel Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It really doesn't matter what your culture is, → where your linage originates, → or where you were personally born.  We all _(even the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ have the right of self-determination AND may freely determine our political status and pursue our collective economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian has not exclusivity to this right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, certainly you can say that in May 1948, the* Regional Area *was invaded by a half dozen Arab League States.  So yes, 'there is some truth to that statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again...
> 
> Beyond his, of the five Arab regular Arab regular armies, one(That of Lebanon) never crossed the international frontier with Palestine,two(those of Iraq and Transjordan) scrupulously refrained from crossing the frontiers of the Jewish state laid down in the United Nation plan as per secret Jordanian understandings with both Britain and the Zionist leadership and thus never "invaded" Israel, and one ( that of Syria) made only minor inroads across the new Israeli state's frontiers.The only serious and long lasting incursion into the territory of the Jewish state as laid under the partition plan was that of the Egyptian army. Meanwhile the fiercest fighting during 48 war took place with the Jordanian army during multiple Israeli OFFENSIVES into area assigned by the UN to the Arab state. This story of an invasion by multiple, massive Arab armies, and other legends, is not just an important element of the Israeli myth of origin: it's a nearly universal myth."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Regional Area, delineated by the Mandate for Palestine, was invaded by Jordan, Egypt, Syria by your own admission above, along with Iraqi forces.
> 
> All of those four States crossed an international border into territory NOT under their sovereignty with military forces and the intention of removing the government of territory NOT under their sovereignty.  That is the very definition of an act of aggression and war.
> 
> UNGA 181 was rejected by the Arabs.  Had it been accepted, there would have been NO need for military action.  The new borders between Israel and Jordan/Egypt would have been set with the swipe of a pen.  The invasion of armies across international lines was entirely unnecessary if a peaceful acceptance of UNGA 181 was the goal.
Click to expand...



Good Grief your ignorance is remarkable!!!  The Arabs rejected #181 because it ludicrously ceded 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority the legally owned less than 5% of the land...apparently you are completely ignorant of Plan Dalet and the pre-state conspiracy to drive all of the Arabs from Palestine once statehood is secured...those are the very words of Menachem Begin...once again your argument is with the first round of Israeli leaders...LOL


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> No history of “palestinians”
> 
> Ancient Jewish village in Israel Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)




Your historical ignorance is astonishing...perhaps you should briefly consult the writings of Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...Vladamir Jabotinsky...David Ben Gurion...etc---all of whom admitted to the long-standing residency rights of the majority Arab Palestinians...do you slugs really believe your own lies?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny I was thinking the same thing about you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
Click to expand...

Exactly how did the British and the French get in the position to administer 4 Mandates, not just Palestine?

How did it happen?  What led to it? 

If the Mandate for Palestine is not valid, than what about the other three Mandates?  How about Jordan?

The Zionists are a part of the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, change it as you like, as much as you like.
They are as much the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, as are the Jews who were living in Arab conquered land in Asia, or North Africa.
Or the Jews who were now living in the Americas.
Or the Jews still living in the land of Israel at that time.


One cannot change who the native indigenous people of any land are, simply because one of the groups happens to be Jewish.


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I like this:   "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE."   You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly correct PF...literally every aspect of the Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I mean, we really have to chuckle at this; if this is all the mantra you offer.  This is intellectually dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonial settlers. The foreign Jewish agency established the government of Israel against the wishes of the vast majority of the population. This government was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It really doesn't matter what your culture is, → where your linage originates, → or where you were personally born.  We all _(even the Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ have the right of self-determination AND may freely determine our political status and pursue our collective economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian has not exclusivity to this right.
> 
> By the way, the "Jewish Agency" was a requirement of the Allied Powers; under Article 4 of the Mandate.  Now the Arab Palestinian can complain all they want; but the fact of the matter is that several times the Arab Higher Committee was ask to to form a "Arab Agency" → but declined to participate in the develop of any self-governing institutions in the territory.
> 
> The Government was not imposed by force.  The outbreak of hostilities between the Allied Powers and the Central Powers had consequences.  One of those consequence was the fall of four Empires; one of which is the Ottoman Empire that included the Middle East.  The territory that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are trying to claim, was not under Arab Sovereignty to start with; not for more than a thousand years.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Palestine is under attack by foreign forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, certainly you can say that in May 1948, the Regional Area was invaded by a half dozen Arab League States.  So yes, 'there is some truth to that statement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



It is indeed ironic that you refer to the majority population of Palestine as 'hostile' considering the actions and intent of the Jewish terror-groups...European Jews had zero claim over any of the land in historic Palestine...HELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_

You are going to have to school me here.



Ventura77 said:


> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181


*(COMMENT)*

So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?  

The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.

The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(__the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny I was thinking the same thing about you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly how did the British and the French get in the position to administer 4 Mandates, not just Palestine?
> 
> How did it happen?  What led to it?
> 
> If the Mandate for Palestine is not valid, than what about the other three Mandates?  How about Jordan?
> 
> The Zionists are a part of the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, change it as you like, as much as you like.
> They are as much the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, as are the Jews who were living in Arab conquered land in Asia, or North Africa.
> Or the Jews who were now living in the Americas.
> Or the Jews still living in the land of Israel at that time.
> 
> 
> One cannot change who the native indigenous people of any land are, simply because one of the groups happens to be Jewish.
Click to expand...



No they are not for the umteenth time: the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Sephardic Jews...they are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism: Turks...Mongols...Russians...Poles...etc


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are going to have to school me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?
> 
> The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.
> 
> The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny I was thinking the same thing about you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly how did the British and the French get in the position to administer 4 Mandates, not just Palestine?
> 
> How did it happen?  What led to it?
> 
> If the Mandate for Palestine is not valid, than what about the other three Mandates?  How about Jordan?
> 
> The Zionists are a part of the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, change it as you like, as much as you like.
> They are as much the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, as are the Jews who were living in Arab conquered land in Asia, or North Africa.
> Or the Jews who were now living in the Americas.
> Or the Jews still living in the land of Israel at that time.
> 
> 
> One cannot change who the native indigenous people of any land are, simply because one of the groups happens to be Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No they are not for the umteenth time: the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Sephardic Jews...they are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism: Turks...Mongols...Russians...Poles...etc
Click to expand...


Where would the proof be that the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Israelites (it is not Sepharadic, you do not even know the meaning of the word )

I would guess that for you it would not matter posting links debunking the Khazar nonsense, so I will not bother.

Not counting that you do not know who from the Khazar Monarchy actually did convert to Judaism, which would have been but a drop in the bucket in Europe, considering all the Jews who had lived in Europe from the time of the destruction of the First Temple.

But..........go ahead, go on and believe what you wish.

Facts have never gotten in the way of anyone when it comes with alleging this or that about Jews.

Jews have only had nearly 2000 years of those endless allegations.

One must wonder where it started.

But it surely looks like there is no end in sight.


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are going to have to school me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?
> 
> The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.
> 
> The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



The point remaining that the Zionists completely disregarded the letter of the mandate insomuch as the right of the native majority were completely ignored...the Allied Powers lacked any authority to impose a demographic shift without the consent of the majority population...


----------



## Shusha

Art__Allm said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the Arabs better hurry up and assimilate into the indigenous Jewish people then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a BS! Most Zionist settlers were white Europeans (Ashkenazi), they were descendants of Slavs and Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 10th century or even later.
> Semitic Jews (Mizrahi) were fooled by white Ashkenazi to move to Israel, due to Mossad's false flag attacks in Arab countries tensions were created between Arabs of Jewish and Muslim persuasion, and Jewish Arabs are de facto second class citizens in Israel, that is the reason why they hate white Ashkenazim so much.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> By adopting their language...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebrew was a dead language even at the time of Jesus Christ, he spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was just a language, used in liturgy. Crazy Zionists invented "Ivrith" in the 20th century, this artificial language has nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew, because nobody knows how the words were pronounced in this ancient and for more than 2000 years dead language. Today Ivrith is basically a Slavic langauge in which some words are taken from Hebrew, with an invented pronounciation.
> 
> The native language of Ashkenazi was Yiddish, a Slavic language with German vocabulary.
> The native language of Arab Jews is Arabic language.
> So any Jew, who settles in Israel, has to learn an invented language (Ivrith), which was never a native language neither to Jews who were born before 1948, nor to their ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their religion...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Zionists are atheists, they do not care a rat's ass about Judaism. If you are a Russian who eats pork and speaks only Russian, but can prove that you had a Jewish grandmother, you can move to Israel and get Israeli citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their culture and their system of values and by becoming a part of their soviety and under their government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashkenazim and Arab Jews have totally different cultures, they speak different languages, they hate each others in Israel. They even have segregated schools, because white Jews think that swarthy Oriental Jews have a lower IQ.
> 
> The only thing that unites Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews is their believe in their own "choosinesses", any Arab Jews is culturally and linguistically closer to Arabs, and any Russian Jew is culturally and linguistically closer to Russians.
Click to expand...



Just another hate filled rant about how Jews are somehow not a "people" and don't "count" with respect to the rights other peoples have.  And the Hebrew language is not dead.  You wanna know how I know?  Because I can communicate with people in Hebrew  -- like this:

*עם ישראל חי*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are going to have to school me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?
> 
> The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.
> 
> The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
Click to expand...

When one's enemy has made it clear that they do intend to kill each and every one of your people, "ethnic cleansing" is a much more moral way of getting rid of the enemy than killing them all, which would have been not only  an impossibility, but something that Jews simply do not do.

Plan Dalet was a plan amongst many other plans, which was NEVER implemented.  They chose another plan.  

But what do you care.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are going to have to school me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?
> 
> The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.
> 
> The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point remaining that the Zionists completely disregarded the letter of the mandate insomuch as the right of the native majority were completely ignored...the Allied Powers lacked any authority to impose a demographic shift without the consent of the majority population...
Click to expand...

The NATIVES are the Jews, and it was the ARABS who first attacked Jews in 1920 and then afterwards until 1948, and after that.

Do you really think the Indigenous Jews were going to just sit there like ducks and allow themselves to end up being killed, slaughtered as they were in Europe, or as they usually were by the Muslim Arabs and Turks during the 1300 year Muslim conquest  over their land?

When are you going to bother to educate yourself about the history of the region and how Muslims treated Jews for 1300 years before WWI?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

The term "army or armies" meant different things to different people at the time; depending n how they terms are used.  Clearly, the Arab - Holy War Army was still smaller yet.



Ventura77 said:


> Face the obvious fact that not unlike everything else the Jews claim the 'Five Arab Armies' was a bald-faced lie...the Jewish forces were numerically superior to the fragmented opposing forces, which entered the fray days after the Zionist ethnic-cleansing offensive began---and not---as Zionist propaganda affirms---after the declaration of statehood, which was also illegitimate...


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Forces were actually superior in terms of numbers by a ratio of *3+:2 *---.  You would probably be correct that the Israeli Forces were superior in terms of tactics and resource allocation; as well as battlefield tactical intelligence.

It goes without saying that the Arab-Palestinians (and most of the Middle Eastern Arabs) will avoid the issue of contemporary solutions in favor of painting the Israeli in the darkest fashion as the villain.   It doesn't change the facts and the ground truth.  The Arab Palestinian is not interested in any way, shape or form, n forging a peaceful settlement.  They would rather argue about the decisions of the past by the Ottomans Empire//Turkish Republic, the Allied Powers, and the various factions that we called today "Arabs;" then attempt to approach the problem of settlement from a reasonable perspective.  This very trail of a dialog is an example of such.  And as long as the Arab Palestinian are pledged enemies of the Israelis, it is not likely that the Israelis will ever relinquish strategic territorial holding back to a people that will attempt to make a military advantage of it.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Congress was trying to artificially inflate the number of Jews in Palestine in the hopes of declaring Palestine a 'Jewish homeland'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you are aware that all this is fully in keeping with international law and the specific legal instruments of the time -- particularly the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Clearly you have not read the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny I was thinking the same thing about you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly how did the British and the French get in the position to administer 4 Mandates, not just Palestine?
> 
> How did it happen?  What led to it?
> 
> If the Mandate for Palestine is not valid, than what about the other three Mandates?  How about Jordan?
> 
> The Zionists are a part of the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, change it as you like, as much as you like.
> They are as much the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, as are the Jews who were living in Arab conquered land in Asia, or North Africa.
> Or the Jews who were now living in the Americas.
> Or the Jews still living in the land of Israel at that time.
> 
> 
> One cannot change who the native indigenous people of any land are, simply because one of the groups happens to be Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No they are not for the umteenth time: the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Sephardic Jews...they are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism: Turks...Mongols...Russians...Poles...etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where would the proof be that the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Israelites (it is not Sepharadic, you do not even know the meaning of the word )
> 
> I would guess that for you it would not matter posting links debunking the Khazar nonsense, so I will not bother.
> 
> Not counting that you do not know who from the Khazar Monarchy actually did convert to Judaism, which would have been but a drop in the bucket in Europe, considering all the Jews who had lived in Europe from the time of the destruction of the First Temple.
> 
> But..........go ahead, go on and believe what you wish.
> 
> Facts have never gotten in the way of anyone when it comes with alleging this or that about Jews.
> 
> Jews have only had nearly 2000 years of those endless allegations.
> 
> One must wonder where it started.
> 
> But it surely looks like there is no end in sight.
Click to expand...



NEXT TIME TAKE A STAB AT PROVING YOUR GIBBERISH:
Your lead with ignorance---BIG SHOCK....put aside your smugness a second: Sephardic Jews are 'Arabized' Jews who resided in East Jerusalem prior to the arrival of the Zionist Ashkenazis....An Israeli geneticist proved that 90% of Israelis have no DNA connection to the ancient Jews, and are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...

The newest DNA science finding is from Dr. Eran Elhaik (“a Jew”) and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. In research accepted December 5, 2012 and published by the Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society of Molecular Biology and Evolution, it was found that the “Khazarian Hypothesis” is scientifically correct.
What exactly is the “Khazarian Hypothesis?” Simply stated, it holds that the Jewry genome is a mosaic of ancestries which rise primarily out of the Khazars.

Jews are Khazars, not Israelites.

The “Jews” of America, Europe, and Israel are descendants not of Father Abraham but of King Bulan and the people of ancient Khazaria. Khazaria was an amalgam of Turkic clans who once lived in the Caucasus (Southern Russia) in the early centuries CE. These Turkic peoples were pagans who converted to Judaism in the eighth century. As converts, they called themselves “Jews,” but none of their blood comes from Israel.


Geneticists report that less than 2% of “Jews” living in Israel are actually Israelites. Later, the “Jews” (Khazars) emigrated, settling in Russia, Hungary, Poland, Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. As “Jews,” the Khazars then left the European nations in 1948 and settled the fledgling, new nation of Israel.
The people of Israel are not the seed, nor the ancestors, of Abraham. They call themselves “Jews,” but in fact, DNA science shows them to be Khazars. They say they are “Jew,” but they are not.

“There are no blood or family connections among the Jews,” said Dr. Elhaik in an interview with Haaretz, Israel’s daily newspaper. “The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. Their genome is largely Khazar.”


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the Arabs better hurry up and assimilate into the indigenous Jewish people then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a BS! Most Zionist settlers were white Europeans (Ashkenazi), they were descendants of Slavs and Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 10th century or even later.
> Semitic Jews (Mizrahi) were fooled by white Ashkenazi to move to Israel, due to Mossad's false flag attacks in Arab countries tensions were created between Arabs of Jewish and Muslim persuasion, and Jewish Arabs are de facto second class citizens in Israel, that is the reason why they hate white Ashkenazim so much.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> By adopting their language...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebrew was a dead language even at the time of Jesus Christ, he spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was just a language, used in liturgy. Crazy Zionists invented "Ivrith" in the 20th century, this artificial language has nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew, because nobody knows how the words were pronounced in this ancient and for more than 2000 years dead language. Today Ivrith is basically a Slavic langauge in which some words are taken from Hebrew, with an invented pronounciation.
> 
> The native language of Ashkenazi was Yiddish, a Slavic language with German vocabulary.
> The native language of Arab Jews is Arabic language.
> So any Jew, who settles in Israel, has to learn an invented language (Ivrith), which was never a native language neither to Jews who were born before 1948, nor to their ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their religion...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Zionists are atheists, they do not care a rat's ass about Judaism. If you are a Russian who eats pork and speaks only Russian, but can prove that you had a Jewish grandmother, you can move to Israel and get Israeli citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their culture and their system of values and by becoming a part of their soviety and under their government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashkenazim and Arab Jews have totally different cultures, they speak different languages, they hate each others in Israel. They even have segregated schools, because white Jews think that swarthy Oriental Jews have a lower IQ.
> 
> The only thing that unites Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews is their believe in their own "choosinesses", any Arab Jews is culturally and linguistically closer to Arabs, and any Russian Jew is culturally and linguistically closer to Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just another hate filled rant about how Jews are somehow not a "people" and don't "count" with respect to the rights other peoples have.  And the Hebrew language is not dead.  You wanna know how I know?  Because I can communicate with people in Hebrew  -- like this:
> 
> *עם ישראל חי*
Click to expand...



Apparently anyone who dare to question Jewish claims is axiomatically "hate filled'....LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly how did the British and the French get in the position to administer 4 Mandates, not just Palestine?
> 
> How did it happen?  What led to it?
> 
> If the Mandate for Palestine is not valid, than what about the other three Mandates?  How about Jordan?
> 
> The Zionists are a part of the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, change it as you like, as much as you like.
> They are as much the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, as are the Jews who were living in Arab conquered land in Asia, or North Africa.
> Or the Jews who were now living in the Americas.
> Or the Jews still living in the land of Israel at that time.
> 
> 
> One cannot change who the native indigenous people of any land are, simply because one of the groups happens to be Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No they are not for the umteenth time: the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Sephardic Jews...they are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism: Turks...Mongols...Russians...Poles...etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where would the proof be that the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Israelites (it is not Sepharadic, you do not even know the meaning of the word )
> 
> I would guess that for you it would not matter posting links debunking the Khazar nonsense, so I will not bother.
> 
> Not counting that you do not know who from the Khazar Monarchy actually did convert to Judaism, which would have been but a drop in the bucket in Europe, considering all the Jews who had lived in Europe from the time of the destruction of the First Temple.
> 
> But..........go ahead, go on and believe what you wish.
> 
> Facts have never gotten in the way of anyone when it comes with alleging this or that about Jews.
> 
> Jews have only had nearly 2000 years of those endless allegations.
> 
> One must wonder where it started.
> 
> But it surely looks like there is no end in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT TIME TAKE A STAB AT PROVING YOUR GIBBERISH:
> Your lead with ignorance---BIG SHOCK....put aside your smugness a second: Sephardic Jews are 'Arabized' Jews who resided in East Jerusalem prior to the arrival of the Zionist Ashkenazis....An Israeli geneticist proved that 90% of Israelis have no DNA connection to the ancient Jews, and are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...
> 
> The newest DNA science finding is from Dr. Eran Elhaik (“a Jew”) and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. In research accepted December 5, 2012 and published by the Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society of Molecular Biology and Evolution, it was found that the “Khazarian Hypothesis” is scientifically correct.
> What exactly is the “Khazarian Hypothesis?” Simply stated, it holds that the Jewry genome is a mosaic of ancestries which rise primarily out of the Khazars.
> 
> Jews are Khazars, not Israelites.
> 
> The “Jews” of America, Europe, and Israel are descendants not of Father Abraham but of King Bulan and the people of ancient Khazaria. Khazaria was an amalgam of Turkic clans who once lived in the Caucasus (Southern Russia) in the early centuries CE. These Turkic peoples were pagans who converted to Judaism in the eighth century. As converts, they called themselves “Jews,” but none of their blood comes from Israel.
> 
> 
> Geneticists report that less than 2% of “Jews” living in Israel are actually Israelites. Later, the “Jews” (Khazars) emigrated, settling in Russia, Hungary, Poland, Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. As “Jews,” the Khazars then left the European nations in 1948 and settled the fledgling, new nation of Israel.
> The people of Israel are not the seed, nor the ancestors, of Abraham. They call themselves “Jews,” but in fact, DNA science shows them to be Khazars. They say they are “Jew,” but they are not.
> 
> “There are no blood or family connections among the Jews,” said Dr. Elhaik in an interview with Haaretz, Israel’s daily newspaper. “The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. Their genome is largely Khazar.”
Click to expand...



Here, educate yourself and stop being annoyingly ignorant:

Sephardi Jews - Wikipedia

Sephardim

Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews | My Jewish Learning


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the Arabs better hurry up and assimilate into the indigenous Jewish people then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a BS! Most Zionist settlers were white Europeans (Ashkenazi), they were descendants of Slavs and Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 10th century or even later.
> Semitic Jews (Mizrahi) were fooled by white Ashkenazi to move to Israel, due to Mossad's false flag attacks in Arab countries tensions were created between Arabs of Jewish and Muslim persuasion, and Jewish Arabs are de facto second class citizens in Israel, that is the reason why they hate white Ashkenazim so much.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> By adopting their language...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebrew was a dead language even at the time of Jesus Christ, he spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was just a language, used in liturgy. Crazy Zionists invented "Ivrith" in the 20th century, this artificial language has nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew, because nobody knows how the words were pronounced in this ancient and for more than 2000 years dead language. Today Ivrith is basically a Slavic langauge in which some words are taken from Hebrew, with an invented pronounciation.
> 
> The native language of Ashkenazi was Yiddish, a Slavic language with German vocabulary.
> The native language of Arab Jews is Arabic language.
> So any Jew, who settles in Israel, has to learn an invented language (Ivrith), which was never a native language neither to Jews who were born before 1948, nor to their ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their religion...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Zionists are atheists, they do not care a rat's ass about Judaism. If you are a Russian who eats pork and speaks only Russian, but can prove that you had a Jewish grandmother, you can move to Israel and get Israeli citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...their culture and their system of values and by becoming a part of their soviety and under their government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashkenazim and Arab Jews have totally different cultures, they speak different languages, they hate each others in Israel. They even have segregated schools, because white Jews think that swarthy Oriental Jews have a lower IQ.
> 
> The only thing that unites Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews is their believe in their own "choosinesses", any Arab Jews is culturally and linguistically closer to Arabs, and any Russian Jew is culturally and linguistically closer to Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just another hate filled rant about how Jews are somehow not a "people" and don't "count" with respect to the rights other peoples have.  And the Hebrew language is not dead.  You wanna know how I know?  Because I can communicate with people in Hebrew  -- like this:
> 
> *עם ישראל חי*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently anyone who dare to question Jewish claims is axiomatically "hate filled'....LOL
Click to expand...

Nope, you are just blatantly ignorant with no hope of being educated in any manner or form


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are going to have to school me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?
> 
> The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.
> 
> The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point remaining that the Zionists completely disregarded the letter of the mandate insomuch as the right of the native majority were completely ignored...the Allied Powers lacked any authority to impose a demographic shift without the consent of the majority population...
Click to expand...




Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are going to have to school me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, in 1920, when the Allied Powers at San Remo made the determination --- What were the "civil rights" of an Arab in the Middle East in 1920?
> 
> The Mandate was written in 1920 by the Allied Powers and published in 1922.  The UN Charter was presented in San Fransisco in 1945.  The UN Charter rolled-over the Mandates pursuant to Article 77 of the Charter.
> 
> The Recommendations of the UN Special Commission of Palestine (UNSCOP) was approved by the GA in November 1947.  This was a consequence of the decision _(the only course now open was to submit the problem to the judgement of the United Nations)_ announced to the House of Commons by the Foreign Secretary on the 18th February 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
Click to expand...


Your “ethnic cleansing” slogan is another of the unsupported slogans that drench your tirades.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )



*Neither the presence of Jewish people nor the sovereignty of the Jewish people infringes upon the civil and religious rights of the Arab inhabitants. * No people have a right to prevent another peoples from self-determination and sovereignty.  Which means as bottom line that the rights of both peoples must be addressed.  



> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181



The majority argument is irrelevant and an intentional distraction from the legal facts.  The entire basis of human rights laws and international humanitarian law is based on the equality of peoples, especially the rights of minorities.  Are you going to try to argue that the Catalans have no rights to self-determination or sovereignty because they are a minority?  It would be a foolish argument.  And its just as foolish to make that argument against the Jewish people.  

ALL peoples have the right to self-determination and sovereignty.  ALL.  Not some.  ALL.  That includes the Jewish people.  

The British government had every legal right, granted by the international community, to uphold the already existing rights of the Jewish people to a sovereign homeland.  That homeland was written into international law by the international community acting at the time.  It fulfills the legal requirements of the Mandate, rather than violates them.


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> The term "army or armies" meant different things to different people at the time; depending n how they terms are used.  Clearly, the Arab - Holy War Army was still smaller yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Face the obvious fact that not unlike everything else the Jews claim the 'Five Arab Armies' was a bald-faced lie...the Jewish forces were numerically superior to the fragmented opposing forces, which entered the fray days after the Zionist ethnic-cleansing offensive began---and not---as Zionist propaganda affirms---after the declaration of statehood, which was also illegitimate...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Forces were actually superior in terms of numbers by a ratio of *3+:2 *---.  You would probably be correct that the Israeli Forces were superior in terms of tactics and resource allocation; as well as battlefield tactical intelligence.
> 
> It goes without saying that the Arab-Palestinians (and most of the Middle Eastern Arabs) will avoid the issue of contemporary solutions in favor of painting the Israeli in the darkest fashion as the villain.   It doesn't change the facts and the ground truth.  The Arab Palestinian is not interested in any way, shape or form, n forging a peaceful settlement.  They would rather argue about the decisions of the past by the Ottomans Empire//Turkish Republic, the Allied Powers, and the various factions that we called today "Arabs;" then attempt to approach the problem of settlement from a reasonable perspective.  This very trail of a dialog is an example of such.  And as long as the Arab Palestinian are pledged enemies of the Israelis, it is not likely that the Israelis will ever relinquish strategic territorial holding back to a people that will attempt to make a military advantage of it.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Only the Syrian and Egyptian forces crossed into Palestine and engaged the Zionist militias and terror-groups---Irgun, Hagganah, Stern Gang, Lehi...etc. The combined Arab forces were estimated at 40,000 contrasted with Zionist forces estimated at 125,000


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine (excerpts)
> 
> Preamble:
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the *historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the *establishment of the Jewish national home* and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the *establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh you apparently missed this trivial little line:   (  and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. )
> 
> The British Colonial Authority was in no legal/moral/ethical position to mandate the imposition of a Jewish Homeland where Jews were the minority...hence the Mandate is contradicted by the UN charter, which stipulates that the property right of native peoples shall be protected from encroachment...Zionists were in violation of both the Mandate and the Partition-Plan #181
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly how did the British and the French get in the position to administer 4 Mandates, not just Palestine?
> 
> How did it happen?  What led to it?
> 
> If the Mandate for Palestine is not valid, than what about the other three Mandates?  How about Jordan?
> 
> The Zionists are a part of the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, change it as you like, as much as you like.
> They are as much the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, as are the Jews who were living in Arab conquered land in Asia, or North Africa.
> Or the Jews who were now living in the Americas.
> Or the Jews still living in the land of Israel at that time.
> 
> 
> One cannot change who the native indigenous people of any land are, simply because one of the groups happens to be Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No they are not for the umteenth time: the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Sephardic Jews...they are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism: Turks...Mongols...Russians...Poles...etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where would the proof be that the Zionists have no DNA connection to the ancient Israelites (it is not Sepharadic, you do not even know the meaning of the word )
> 
> I would guess that for you it would not matter posting links debunking the Khazar nonsense, so I will not bother.
> 
> Not counting that you do not know who from the Khazar Monarchy actually did convert to Judaism, which would have been but a drop in the bucket in Europe, considering all the Jews who had lived in Europe from the time of the destruction of the First Temple.
> 
> But..........go ahead, go on and believe what you wish.
> 
> Facts have never gotten in the way of anyone when it comes with alleging this or that about Jews.
> 
> Jews have only had nearly 2000 years of those endless allegations.
> 
> One must wonder where it started.
> 
> But it surely looks like there is no end in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT TIME TAKE A STAB AT PROVING YOUR GIBBERISH:
> Your lead with ignorance---BIG SHOCK....put aside your smugness a second: Sephardic Jews are 'Arabized' Jews who resided in East Jerusalem prior to the arrival of the Zionist Ashkenazis....An Israeli geneticist proved that 90% of Israelis have no DNA connection to the ancient Jews, and are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...
> 
> The newest DNA science finding is from Dr. Eran Elhaik (“a Jew”) and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. In research accepted December 5, 2012 and published by the Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society of Molecular Biology and Evolution, it was found that the “Khazarian Hypothesis” is scientifically correct.
> What exactly is the “Khazarian Hypothesis?” Simply stated, it holds that the Jewry genome is a mosaic of ancestries which rise primarily out of the Khazars.
> 
> Jews are Khazars, not Israelites.
> 
> The “Jews” of America, Europe, and Israel are descendants not of Father Abraham but of King Bulan and the people of ancient Khazaria. Khazaria was an amalgam of Turkic clans who once lived in the Caucasus (Southern Russia) in the early centuries CE. These Turkic peoples were pagans who converted to Judaism in the eighth century. As converts, they called themselves “Jews,” but none of their blood comes from Israel.
> 
> 
> Geneticists report that less than 2% of “Jews” living in Israel are actually Israelites. Later, the “Jews” (Khazars) emigrated, settling in Russia, Hungary, Poland, Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. As “Jews,” the Khazars then left the European nations in 1948 and settled the fledgling, new nation of Israel.
> The people of Israel are not the seed, nor the ancestors, of Abraham. They call themselves “Jews,” but in fact, DNA science shows them to be Khazars. They say they are “Jew,” but they are not.
> 
> “There are no blood or family connections among the Jews,” said Dr. Elhaik in an interview with Haaretz, Israel’s daily newspaper. “The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. Their genome is largely Khazar.”
Click to expand...


I think it’s important to point out that plagiarizing / cutting and pasting entire portions of a religious fundamentalist blog is hardly a convincing argument.

"Jews" Are Not Descendants of Abraham


----------



## Sixties Fan

One really should know the people who write some anti Jewish articles to learn Why they do it

Texe Marrs - Wikipedia

Additionally, Texe Marrs has promoted a book, _The Greatest Lie on Earth: Proof That Our World is Not a Moving Globe_, by Edward Hendrie, which seriously argues that the planet Earth is immobile and flat, based on an interpretation of the Bible.[15][16] Marrs also offers Hendrie's book asserting this argument through his ministry,[17] and books by Hendrie alleging that the world is being manipulated by a vast Jewish-Catholic conspiracy.[18]

----------------
Ooops, the world is flat !!


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Good Grief your ignorance is remarkable!!!


Good grief your inability to address the topic being discussed is remarkable!  The question on the table was whether or not a number of Arab States illegally committed an act of aggression on territory that did not belong to them. 



> The Arabs rejected #181 because it ludicrously ceded 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority the legally owned less than 5% of the land..


And you, like many others, confuse the concepts of individual land ownership with sovereignty.  The Arabs rejected a 50/50ish split of the territory into to nations for two peoples.  There is nothing unfair or unreasonable about dividing the territory into two parts -- one for the Arabs and one for the Jewish people.  (Well, actually that is not true -- it is unfair in that the Arabs had already been given 77% of the territory, but....we won't get into that.) 

You are, in fact, confirming my point.  If the goal was to divide the territory into a place for the Jewish homeland and a place for the Arab "Palestinian" homeland -- there would have been no need for aggression and war.  A swipe of a pen.  The POINT of the aggression was to remove any Jewish sovereignty in the territory.  If you listen to Fatah and Hamas -- that is STILL the goal.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_

You are what you are. 



Ventura77 said:


> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...


*(COMMENT)*

In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:


(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.

(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.

BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?

How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan? 

Finally, who trampled on what when?

Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...



Are you aware of just how many ethnic cleansings and population transfers have occurred in the past 100 years?  Especially in the aftermath of WWs I and WWII?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> The term "army or armies" meant different things to different people at the time; depending n how they terms are used.  Clearly, the Arab - Holy War Army was still smaller yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Face the obvious fact that not unlike everything else the Jews claim the 'Five Arab Armies' was a bald-faced lie...the Jewish forces were numerically superior to the fragmented opposing forces, which entered the fray days after the Zionist ethnic-cleansing offensive began---and not---as Zionist propaganda affirms---after the declaration of statehood, which was also illegitimate...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Forces were actually superior in terms of numbers by a ratio of *3+:2 *---.  You would probably be correct that the Israeli Forces were superior in terms of tactics and resource allocation; as well as battlefield tactical intelligence.
> 
> It goes without saying that the Arab-Palestinians (and most of the Middle Eastern Arabs) will avoid the issue of contemporary solutions in favor of painting the Israeli in the darkest fashion as the villain.   It doesn't change the facts and the ground truth.  The Arab Palestinian is not interested in any way, shape or form, n forging a peaceful settlement.  They would rather argue about the decisions of the past by the Ottomans Empire//Turkish Republic, the Allied Powers, and the various factions that we called today "Arabs;" then attempt to approach the problem of settlement from a reasonable perspective.  This very trail of a dialog is an example of such.  And as long as the Arab Palestinian are pledged enemies of the Israelis, it is not likely that the Israelis will ever relinquish strategic territorial holding back to a people that will attempt to make a military advantage of it.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only the Syrian and Egyptian forces crossed into Palestine and engaged the Zionist militias and terror-groups---Irgun, Hagganah, Stern Gang, Lehi...etc. The combined Arab forces were estimated at 40,000 contrasted with Zionist forces estimated at 125,000
Click to expand...


As usual, there is an expectation that absent facts, you simply invent your nonsensical claims or plagiarize from some rather questionable online blogs.

The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.

A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948


Arab nations Attack Israel


What do the Flat Earth Society folks have to add?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.


Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.

Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.

We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.
> 
> A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948


It is clear that Asmam Pasha was here referring to the Arab League’s decision at Sofar in September 1947 “to make Palestine a unified independent Arab State”.8​
This would be in line with article 22 of the League of Nations, the UN charter, and international law.

Why would they call that aggression?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.
> 
> Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.
> 
> We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.
Click to expand...


Interesting that when it comes to Jews, some non Jews will give the darnedest interpretation as to what may or may not have been said by any Jew.

Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.

So, how did that "saying" get so lost in translation?

On the Origin, Meaning, Use and Abuse of a Phrase on JSTOR


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.
> 
> A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that Asmam Pasha was here referring to the Arab League’s decision at Sofar in September 1947 “to make Palestine a unified independent Arab State”.8​
> This would be in line with article 22 of the League of Nations, the UN charter, and international law.
> 
> Why would they call that aggression?
Click to expand...

What?  No Jewish State along side the Arab State?

And you think that is International law?

Do you realize that they were speaking of all which was left of the Mandate post the Hashemites taking 78 % of it?

ALL of what was left of it?

What do you think the exercise post Israeli Independence was all about?

To welcome the Jews amongst them as a sovereign State and wish them good luck?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.
> 
> A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that Asmam Pasha was here referring to the Arab League’s decision at Sofar in September 1947 “to make Palestine a unified independent Arab State”.8​
> This would be in line with article 22 of the League of Nations, the UN charter, and international law.
> 
> Why would they call that aggression?
Click to expand...


A unified Arab-Islamist state that was _Judenrein. 
_
When Arab-Islamist armies crossed the fromtiere subsequent to their stated goal to “drive the Jews into the sea”, I would call that aggression._ 
_

_
_


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.
> 
> A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that Asmam Pasha was here referring to the Arab League’s decision at Sofar in September 1947 “to make Palestine a unified independent Arab State”.8​
> This would be in line with article 22 of the League of Nations, the UN charter, and international law.
> 
> Why would they call that aggression?
Click to expand...


Nowhere did League of Nations or UN reference palestinians, because no such people existed


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> The term "army or armies" meant different things to different people at the time; depending n how they terms are used.  Clearly, the Arab - Holy War Army was still smaller yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Face the obvious fact that not unlike everything else the Jews claim the 'Five Arab Armies' was a bald-faced lie...the Jewish forces were numerically superior to the fragmented opposing forces, which entered the fray days after the Zionist ethnic-cleansing offensive began---and not---as Zionist propaganda affirms---after the declaration of statehood, which was also illegitimate...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Forces were actually superior in terms of numbers by a ratio of *3+:2 *---.  You would probably be correct that the Israeli Forces were superior in terms of tactics and resource allocation; as well as battlefield tactical intelligence.
> 
> It goes without saying that the Arab-Palestinians (and most of the Middle Eastern Arabs) will avoid the issue of contemporary solutions in favor of painting the Israeli in the darkest fashion as the villain.   It doesn't change the facts and the ground truth.  The Arab Palestinian is not interested in any way, shape or form, n forging a peaceful settlement.  They would rather argue about the decisions of the past by the Ottomans Empire//Turkish Republic, the Allied Powers, and the various factions that we called today "Arabs;" then attempt to approach the problem of settlement from a reasonable perspective.  This very trail of a dialog is an example of such.  And as long as the Arab Palestinian are pledged enemies of the Israelis, it is not likely that the Israelis will ever relinquish strategic territorial holding back to a people that will attempt to make a military advantage of it.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only the Syrian and Egyptian forces crossed into Palestine and engaged the Zionist militias and terror-groups---Irgun, Hagganah, Stern Gang, Lehi...etc. The combined Arab forces were estimated at 40,000 contrasted with Zionist forces estimated at 125,000
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, there is an expectation that absent facts, you simply invent your nonsensical claims or plagiarize from some rather questionable online blogs.
> 
> The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.
> 
> A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948
> 
> 
> Arab nations Attack Israel
> 
> 
> What do the Flat Earth Society folks have to add?
Click to expand...




Silly me how dare I actually quote men like Ben Gurion...Moshe Dayan...Begin...Shamir--all of whom were there and quite candid about events in question....Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation...Once the Arab States along with India voted down the farcical text of Resolution #181 the Zionists launched a well-planned ethnic-cleansing offensive to steal what they could not acquire through political channels, nearly all of the Arab towns and villages earmarked for the Palestinians in #181 were occupied by Zionist militias within the first day of the terror-offensive...Syrian and Egyptian troops didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist offensive began...so much for the lie of an Attack on a fictive Israel...


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.
> 
> Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.
> 
> We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.
Click to expand...


Israel has been a land for Jews, the indigenous People, for thousands of years. 

Ancient Jewish synagogue in Israel Surprising Mosaics Revealed in Ancient Synagogue in Israel


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware of just how many ethnic cleansings and population transfers have occurred in the past 100 years?  Especially in the aftermath of WWs I and WWII?
Click to expand...



LMFAO...and this excuses the atrocities and injustices perpetrated against the native Palestinians HOW????   What a demonstrably warped sense of debate you evidence...you seems to alternate between lies and Zionist fairy tales of heroic Jewish symbolism, and then essentially say 'Why shouldn't Jews be just as evil as everyone else?"  Can you say HYPOCRITE?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian leaders need to have ‘that’ Santa conversation with their people


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN and UPI news had a different reporting of the events.
> 
> A/AC.21/JA/12 of 2 February 1948
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that Asmam Pasha was here referring to the Arab League’s decision at Sofar in September 1947 “to make Palestine a unified independent Arab State”.8​
> This would be in line with article 22 of the League of Nations, the UN charter, and international law.
> 
> Why would they call that aggression?
Click to expand...


Palestine originated as a Roman name for Jews’ land, about 2000 years ago, reflecting the ancient Jewish heritage and history of the land

Had Romans not renamed ancient Israel “palaestina,” the word palestine, anglicized by Europeans, would not exist today


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware of just how many ethnic cleansings and population transfers have occurred in the past 100 years?  Especially in the aftermath of WWs I and WWII?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO...and this excuses the atrocities and injustices perpetrated against the native Palestinians HOW????   What a demonstrably warped sense of debate you evidence...you seems to alternate between lies and Zionist fairy tales of heroic Jewish symbolism, and then essentially say 'Why shouldn't Jews be just as evil as everyone else?"  Can you say HYPOCRITE?
Click to expand...

I gather you did not read or care to read any of the links I posted or anything else.

And the world will continue to be flat for you and all of those fanatics who have nothing else to do with their lives.

Keep reading your Tex articles and from all other sources. 

The loss is yours, not the Jewish People's.  They got back sovereignty over part of their ancient land.  They are not giving anymore of it to the thieving invading Arabs, who want to NOW call themselves Palestinians.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.
> 
> Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.
> 
> We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.
Click to expand...


Archaeology doesn’t lie: Ancient Israel The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

Ancient shekel of Israel Ancient Jewish Silver Shekel Coin from Year 1 of the First Revolt - 66 AD

Palestine never existed. Palestine is a lie.


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...





*Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
*by Alan Hart*

*On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.

As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.

The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:

“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”

Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.

By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:

“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”

A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:

“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”
*


----------



## abi

Ventura77 said:


> NEXT TIME TAKE A STAB AT PROVING YOUR GIBBERISH:
> Your lead with ignorance---BIG SHOCK....put aside your smugness a second: Sephardic Jews are 'Arabized' Jews who resided in East Jerusalem prior to the arrival of the Zionist Ashkenazis....An Israeli geneticist proved that 90% of Israelis have no DNA connection to the ancient Jews, and are the direct descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...
> 
> The newest DNA science finding is from Dr. Eran Elhaik (“a Jew”) and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. In research accepted December 5, 2012 and published by the Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society of Molecular Biology and Evolution, it was found that the “Khazarian Hypothesis” is scientifically correct.
> What exactly is the “Khazarian Hypothesis?” Simply stated, it holds that the Jewry genome is a mosaic of ancestries which rise primarily out of the Khazars.
> 
> Jews are Khazars, not Israelites.
> 
> The “Jews” of America, Europe, and Israel are descendants not of Father Abraham but of King Bulan and the people of ancient Khazaria. Khazaria was an amalgam of Turkic clans who once lived in the Caucasus (Southern Russia) in the early centuries CE. These Turkic peoples were pagans who converted to Judaism in the eighth century. As converts, they called themselves “Jews,” but none of their blood comes from Israel.
> 
> 
> Geneticists report that less than 2% of “Jews” living in Israel are actually Israelites. Later, the “Jews” (Khazars) emigrated, settling in Russia, Hungary, Poland, Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. As “Jews,” the Khazars then left the European nations in 1948 and settled the fledgling, new nation of Israel.
> The people of Israel are not the seed, nor the ancestors, of Abraham. They call themselves “Jews,” but in fact, DNA science shows them to be Khazars. They say they are “Jew,” but they are not.
> 
> “There are no blood or family connections among the Jews,” said Dr. Elhaik in an interview with Haaretz, Israel’s daily newspaper. “The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. Their genome is largely Khazar.”


This is all true and important for everyone in these discussions to wrap their mind around.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
Click to expand...

WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?

The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.

What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware of just how many ethnic cleansings and population transfers have occurred in the past 100 years?  Especially in the aftermath of WWs I and WWII?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO...and this excuses the atrocities and injustices perpetrated against the native Palestinians HOW????   What a demonstrably warped sense of debate you evidence...you seems to alternate between lies and Zionist fairy tales of heroic Jewish symbolism, and then essentially say 'Why shouldn't Jews be just as evil as everyone else?"  Can you say HYPOCRITE?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gather you did not read or care to read any of the links I posted or anything else.
> 
> And the world will continue to be flat for you and all of those fanatics who have nothing else to do with their lives.
> 
> Keep reading your Tex articles and from all other sources.
> 
> The loss is yours, not the Jewish People's.  They got back sovereignty over part of their ancient land.  They are not giving anymore of it to the thieving invading Arabs, who want to NOW call themselves Palestinians.
Click to expand...



I literally howl with laughter at the simpleminded arrogance commonly directed at critics of Israel who are invariably far more informed than them...Try to pay attention here...there will be a test!  'They' didn't get back anything...they are not genetically related to the ancient Jews, they are Ashkenazi Euro-trash...descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to JUDAISM...and even if they were related there is no legal instrument as a 13 century absentee claim...LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware of just how many ethnic cleansings and population transfers have occurred in the past 100 years?  Especially in the aftermath of WWs I and WWII?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO...and this excuses the atrocities and injustices perpetrated against the native Palestinians HOW????   What a demonstrably warped sense of debate you evidence...you seems to alternate between lies and Zionist fairy tales of heroic Jewish symbolism, and then essentially say 'Why shouldn't Jews be just as evil as everyone else?"  Can you say HYPOCRITE?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gather you did not read or care to read any of the links I posted or anything else.
> 
> And the world will continue to be flat for you and all of those fanatics who have nothing else to do with their lives.
> 
> Keep reading your Tex articles and from all other sources.
> 
> The loss is yours, not the Jewish People's.  They got back sovereignty over part of their ancient land.  They are not giving anymore of it to the thieving invading Arabs, who want to NOW call themselves Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I literally howl with laughter at the simpleminded arrogance commonly directed at critics of Israel who are invariably far more informed than them...Try to pay attention here...there will be a test!  'They' didn't get back anything...they are not genetically related to the ancient Jews, they are Ashkenazi Euro-trash...descendants of eastern European Khazar-converts to JUDAISM...and even if they were related there is no legal instrument as a 13 century absentee claim...LOL
Click to expand...

The LOL continues to be on you.

But we shall leave it at that


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
Click to expand...



Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
Click to expand...

I am still laughing.  STOP.

You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.


----------



## JoelT1

Ancient shekel of Israel

Silver shekel of the First Jewish Revolt from Rome - Google Arts & Culture

No coins of ancient palestine— Ancient palestine didn’t exist

.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
Click to expand...


I was hoping you could plagiarize more material from the folks at the Flat Earth Wannabe website you stole from before.

The folks are a hoot.

"Jews" Are Not Descendants of Abraham


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> This is all true and important for everyone in these discussions to wrap their mind around.



Have you read Dr. Elhaik's paper?  I took a look at it this afternoon.





The interpretation given above is not found in the actual paper, and the paper itself has problems -- not the least of which is trying to compare DNA of modern Ashkenazi Jews with modern Khazars (which do not exist).

Even if the above was true -- it is completely irrelevant to the conflict since the Jewish people are ONE people who have the same rights for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands as any other peoples do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.
> 
> Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.
> 
> We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting that when it comes to Jews, some non Jews will give the darnedest interpretation as to what may or may not have been said by any Jew.
> 
> Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
> They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.
> 
> So, how did that "saying" get so lost in translation?
> 
> On the Origin, Meaning, Use and Abuse of a Phrase on JSTOR
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
> They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.


Indeed, but the plan was to shove those people aside and pig the place for themselves. It was no secret. That was their stated goal and the root of the problem that we still have today.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.
> 
> Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.
> 
> We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting that when it comes to Jews, some non Jews will give the darnedest interpretation as to what may or may not have been said by any Jew.
> 
> Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
> They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.
> 
> So, how did that "saying" get so lost in translation?
> 
> On the Origin, Meaning, Use and Abuse of a Phrase on JSTOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
> They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but the plan was to shove those people aside and pig the place for themselves. It was no secret. That was their stated goal and the root of the problem that we still have today.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you are referring of course to the Hamas charter as a statement of islamic fascism.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like this: "Jewish narrative is a gargantuan LIE." You need to listen to a better talk radio host.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you joking? Almost everything you "know" about Israel is a lie.
> 
> Starting with a land without people for a people without a land.
> 
> We could have a whole thread about Israel's lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting that when it comes to Jews, some non Jews will give the darnedest interpretation as to what may or may not have been said by any Jew.
> 
> Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
> They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.
> 
> So, how did that "saying" get so lost in translation?
> 
> On the Origin, Meaning, Use and Abuse of a Phrase on JSTOR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say, the Zionists knew that the land was inhabited.
> They knew that there were Jews and non Jews inhabiting the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but the plan was to shove those people aside and pig the place for themselves. It was no secret. That was their stated goal and the root of the problem that we still have today.
Click to expand...


Joseph Farah: Invention of the palestinians http://www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

I have to admit, you are the greatest at distortion.



Ventura77 said:


> Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation...


*(COMMENT)*

At midnight, 14/15 May, the British completed their withdrawal from the territory formerly under the Mandate; and the Jewish Agency announced the formation of the Provisional Government and the Independence of Israel.



			
				History - Question of Palestine said:
			
		

> ∆  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  ∆
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the
> State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day,
> regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arab​





			
				EXCERPTS Representative to the United Nations of the Arab Higher Committee said:
			
		

> The Arab Higher Committee solicited assistance of the following Arab countries: Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Trans-Jordan, in order to reinstate peace and order in Palestine. Their purpose and task is one of pacification and not of invasion. It has been made clear that once peace and order are restored, the people of Palestine of all creeds will exercise freely their right of self-determination in a general plebiscite.
> ...
> When the regular Arab armies entered Palestine, the responsibility for the control of public security, and other kindred governmental responsibilities on the different areas they occupy have been placed in their hands. In the execution of these duties, both the Arab Higher Committee and the National Committees place their assistance and cooperation at the disposal of the military authorities.
> SOURCE:  S/775   24 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS Representative - On behalf of the Arab States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab armies themselves are not convinced that the Jewish forces will not at any sudden moment break without provocation a truce and attack them. What guarantee is there? For it must be forgotten that the Arab forces are not fighting a regular army but terrorist gangs trained in certain parts of Europe and other regions under the expert hands of forces which for a long time had visited on the world the worst evils. It is surprising that the regular Arab armies are being treated on an equal footing with terrorist bands of a minority intending to impose their will by force on the majority.
> SOURCE:  S/792 26 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS Continuation of the consideration of the consolidated tabulation prepared by the working group said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Jerusalem was surrounded on three sides by Arab armies and was still in a state of war, how could the Jewish military authorities be expected to allow any Arab to enter freely and remain in Jerusalem?
> SOURCE:  Continued Discussion 1 December 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I'm not exactly sure of the intent of your insinuation about the relative term "armies" in regards to it application to the Arab Intervention in 1948.  It's effect though, is to derail any meaningful discussion of the progress towards "peace."  I am suspicious.



Ventura77 said:


> Once the Arab States along with India voted down the farcical text of Resolution #181 the Zionists launched a well-planned ethnic-cleansing offensive to steal what they could not acquire through political channels, nearly all of the Arab towns and villages earmarked for the Palestinians in #181 were occupied by Zionist militias within the first day of the terror-offensive...


*(COMMENT)*

Again, I am very suspicious of the path and derailment purpose --- maybe with the intent to inflame emotions.



			
				History - Question of Palestine said:
			
		

> ∆  End of the British Mandate  ∆
> 
> The adoption of resolution 181 (II) was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine. As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special
> session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948.​


​


Ventura77 said:


> Syrian and Egyptian troops didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist offensive began...so much for the lie of an Attack on a fictive Israel...


*(COMMENT)*

This is ambiguous.  It looks like it says something, but does not.  Clearly this cannot be relative to the 1948 War of Independence for Israel...

What Zionist offensive?

*(SUMMATION)*

I don't recall, from any of my previous studies, when Civil Wars --- wherein factions of the same region of some common political subdivision were locked in conflict, did not turn ugly.  In this case, each side has claimed to hold the moral high ground.  And - in this case, no measure of combat outcome ends the conflict or results in peace.

In this case, the Arab Palestinian wants to play the part of the victim; where they fictitiously feign oppression, disenfranchisement, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves from the donor nations of the world.  The Arab Palestinian has become a very adept at the victim role _*("poor me")*_ by portraying themselves as victims of someone else's behavior _(in this case Israel and any ally)_ in order to gain pity and sympathy or to invoke hostile emotions and thereby rally political support ⇒ and direct anger towards Israel.

This, however, has not proven a very effective strategy in the past.  While the Arab Palestinian is very good at making lists of international laws that have been broken by Israel; many of the claims and counterclaims are contradictory.

••  Example:  The Arab Palestinians claim that all the territory formerly under Mandate is Arab Palestinian.  But if that is true, then how can Israel _(which would then be a political constituency with Palestine)_ be accused of being an invader; or transferring its own population, or illegal annexation etc etc etc...​
Many allies of the Israelis tend to begin to ignore the ranting and ravings of the Arab Palestinians as so much childishness and tantrum noise.  In the end, the world stage will begin to see just each Arab Palestinian tantrum as just that --- an additional piece to the never ending story;  and then it will filter-out the noise --- with nothing of interest left.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Think of Others - Janna Jihad Ayyad and Sumayya Kalla*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

Someone who has written dozens of articles for +972 and other sites, who literally hates Zionism, is upset at the "moralizing" of teaching children that some behaviors are good and some are bad???

One of the blurb-writers for Mya's anti-Israel book, Neve Gordon, refers to the Israeli government as representing "the intricate webs of evil." Mya doesn't object to that kind of moralizing. Only the kind that tells children that listening to parents is good and hurting others is bad.

What a thoroughly messed-up person. She wants to teach her daughter that there is no such thing as good and bad - except if course for the twin evils of Israel and the Jewish religion.

How terrible that she cannot find a community of like-minded people that trash their religion and their nationality while listening to Hebrew popular music.

We already knew that Guarnieri Jaradat was a hypocrite. But this is such self-absorbed crap - trying to damn the American Jewish community but unwittingly telling the world what a twisted and sick person she is.

No wonder that Haaretz considers it worthy of publication.

(full article online)

The world's smallest violin for  Mya Guarnieri Jaradat ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

Joseph Farah: Myths of Palestine & Palestinians http://www.wnd.com/2000/10/1696/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Batsh also spoke at the funerals of some of the terrorists who died after entering the tunnel following its explosion.

“Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) member Khaled al-Batsh alluded that the terrorist tunnel the IDF detonated on Monday on the Gaza border was intended for kidnapping Israeli civilians, who would then be exchanged for imprisoned PIJ terrorists.

“The freedom tunnel that was attacked yesterday by the enemy was meant for the release of our prisoners,” al-Batsh disclosed, adding that the PIJ are undeterred, and will have “another tunnel for the release of the prisoners” in the future. […]

“We will continue our battle out of determination,” he said. “We have the right—blood for blood; we will not give up our right to resist.” […]

“Our weapons will remain in our hands; we will not allow anyone to demilitarize us,” he concluded.”

(full article online)

Palestinian Islamic Jihad clarifies what the BBC did not


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two women from the radical leftist group Machsom Watch, which regularly badgers IDF soldiers serving at checkpoints, were in for an unpleasant surprise, after they were nearly lynched by Arabs in a Samarian village.

_0404_ reported that the incident unfolded when the two arrived at the Samarian village of Azzun to show their support for local Arabs. As one of the women extended her hand to give an item to some of the Arabs, another Arab at the scene snatched a bracelet from her wrist and started to run.

(full article online)

Radical leftists nearly lynched by Arab mob


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has been holding the bodies of two IDF soldiers, Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul, hostage for years, as well as other live Israeli civilians. Before that, Hamas held Gilad Shalit captive for years. Hamas has never allowed the Red Cross to visit their Israeli hostages even once, nor supplied the Red Cross with information about them.

Arab sources say the Gazans may turn to the UN next, in their attempts to cross the border to retrieve the dead terrorist bodies.

It apparently hasn’t occurred to them to first return the bodies of Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/glo...-to-retrieve-terror-tunnel-bodies/2017/11/02/


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again please endeavor to familiarize yourself with Plan-Dalet, and the writings of pre-state Zionists...the Zionist ethnic-cleansing of Palestine had no legal or moral precedent...it was a criminal action which trampled the dictates of both the British Mandate and 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
Click to expand...



Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the Supreme Leader, the “entire Muslim world” should take responsibility for what he called “Palestine.” However, the Iranian leader offered no details on what kind of responsibility he was referring to, nor why he felt the need to register his concern at this time.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/iran-claims-responsibility-for-palestine/2017/11/02/


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I have to admit, you are the greatest at distortion.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At midnight, 14/15 May, the British completed their withdrawal from the territory formerly under the Mandate; and the Jewish Agency announced the formation of the Provisional Government and the Independence of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History - Question of Palestine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ∆  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  ∆
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the
> State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day,
> regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arab​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS Representative to the United Nations of the Arab Higher Committee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Higher Committee solicited assistance of the following Arab countries: Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Trans-Jordan, in order to reinstate peace and order in Palestine. Their purpose and task is one of pacification and not of invasion. It has been made clear that once peace and order are restored, the people of Palestine of all creeds will exercise freely their right of self-determination in a general plebiscite.
> ...
> When the regular Arab armies entered Palestine, the responsibility for the control of public security, and other kindred governmental responsibilities on the different areas they occupy have been placed in their hands. In the execution of these duties, both the Arab Higher Committee and the National Committees place their assistance and cooperation at the disposal of the military authorities.
> SOURCE:  S/775   24 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS Representative - On behalf of the Arab States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab armies themselves are not convinced that the Jewish forces will not at any sudden moment break without provocation a truce and attack them. What guarantee is there? For it must be forgotten that the Arab forces are not fighting a regular army but terrorist gangs trained in certain parts of Europe and other regions under the expert hands of forces which for a long time had visited on the world the worst evils. It is surprising that the regular Arab armies are being treated on an equal footing with terrorist bands of a minority intending to impose their will by force on the majority.
> SOURCE:  S/792 26 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS Continuation of the consideration of the consolidated tabulation prepared by the working group said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Jerusalem was surrounded on three sides by Arab armies and was still in a state of war, how could the Jewish military authorities be expected to allow any Arab to enter freely and remain in Jerusalem?
> SOURCE:  Continued Discussion 1 December 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not exactly sure of the intent of your insinuation about the relative term "armies" in regards to it application to the Arab Intervention in 1948.  It's effect though, is to derail any meaningful discussion of the progress towards "peace."  I am suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once the Arab States along with India voted down the farcical text of Resolution #181 the Zionists launched a well-planned ethnic-cleansing offensive to steal what they could not acquire through political channels, nearly all of the Arab towns and villages earmarked for the Palestinians in #181 were occupied by Zionist militias within the first day of the terror-offensive...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, I am very suspicious of the path and derailment purpose --- maybe with the intent to inflame emotions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History - Question of Palestine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ∆  End of the British Mandate  ∆
> 
> The adoption of resolution 181 (II) was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine. As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special
> session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Syrian and Egyptian troops didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist offensive began...so much for the lie of an Attack on a fictive Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is ambiguous.  It looks like it says something, but does not.  Clearly this cannot be relative to the 1948 War of Independence for Israel...
> 
> What Zionist offensive?
> 
> *(SUMMATION)*
> 
> I don't recall, from any of my previous studies, when Civil Wars --- wherein factions of the same region of some common political subdivision were locked in conflict, did not turn ugly.  In this case, each side has claimed to hold the moral high ground.  And - in this case, no measure of combat outcome ends the conflict or results in peace.
> 
> In this case, the Arab Palestinian wants to play the part of the victim; where they fictitiously feign oppression, disenfranchisement, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves from the donor nations of the world.  The Arab Palestinian has become a very adept at the victim role _*("poor me")*_ by portraying themselves as victims of someone else's behavior _(in this case Israel and any ally)_ in order to gain pity and sympathy or to invoke hostile emotions and thereby rally political support ⇒ and direct anger towards Israel.
> 
> This, however, has not proven a very effective strategy in the past.  While the Arab Palestinian is very good at making lists of international laws that have been broken by Israel; many of the claims and counterclaims are contradictory.
> 
> ••  Example:  The Arab Palestinians claim that all the territory formerly under Mandate is Arab Palestinian.  But if that is true, then how can Israel _(which would then be a political constituency with Palestine)_ be accused of being an invader; or transferring its own population, or illegal annexation etc etc etc...​
> Many allies of the Israelis tend to begin to ignore the ranting and ravings of the Arab Palestinians as so much childishness and tantrum noise.  In the end, the world stage will begin to see just each Arab Palestinian tantrum as just that --- an additional piece to the never ending story;  and then it will filter-out the noise --- with nothing of interest left.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




"This is ambiguous. It looks like it says something, but does not. Clearly this cannot be relative to the 1948 War of Independence for Israel...

What Zionist offensive?"


HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...
Click to expand...


Well, lets be honest here, Louie. When your cutting and pasting amounts to entire paragraphs you plagiarize from Flat Earth Society loons, the validity of your plagiarized comments is called into question.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ventura77,  _et al,_
> 
> You are what you are.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation dispatched a letter to the UN that stress the following:
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> The "PLAN DALET" (now a more than a Half Century Old) was one of four suggestions presented in March 1948 in the shadow of the Arab Threat.
> 
> BTW:  Was there any real evidence that the Plan was actually acted upon?  And, was what the Arab Higher Committee Threatened any different from what you interpret the Israeli Plan to mean?
> 
> How do you know that "Zionist" wrote the Plan?
> 
> Finally, who trampled on what when?
> 
> Press Release *PAL/169* 17 MAY 1948
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  I*n fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...
Click to expand...

The United States has a plan in case someone threatens the US. 
Several I would say.
One of them, for sure, is using Nuclear Power.

It never uses it.

In your mind, just because they ever came up with that plan to protect America and American lives, but have never used it, and possibly never will......is reason for you to believe that you need to bash that plan.

All countries have many plans to deal with what may come up against it or against their people.

According to you, only Jews must be vilified for having any plans to protect their country and ALL the people in it, Jews and non Jews, because you cannot help believing that Jews have no right to defend themselves ON their OWN land, their own homeland.

Lets count the way one can believe in anything you have read and have taken to heart:

1)  The Earth is FLAT

2)  Dinosaurs and Humans roamed the Earth at the same time

3) Zionists are not Jews, they are converted Jews from Khazar


Houston, we have a problem.


----------



## Art__Allm

Sixties Fan said:


> :
> The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism.



Arabs in Yemen, Berbers in North Africa and other Semitic tribes converted to Judaism in the early Middle Ages, that are known historical facts. BTW, most Mizrahi sef-identified as Arabs.

Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia
Berber Jews - Wikipedia



Sixties Fan said:


> :
> Speaking a language, the Arabic language, does not make one an Arab, any more than speaking English makes one an indigenous English person.



If a Jew self-identifies as an Arab, how can you deny him this right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Partners for peace.  Or so they say]

*Statements by the Palestinian Authority and Fatah about the Balfour Declaration and Britain:*

*"The greatest political crime in the history of mankind" *[PA Ministry of Information] 
*"The crime of the century"* [Official PA daily] 
*"The most inhuman terrorist crime... creating a Zionist illegal state"* [The Fatah Movement] 
*"The most horrible crime in the history of mankind"* [Fatah Spokesman Osama Al-Qawasmi] 
*"Despicable crime"* [Official PA daily, Khaled Jamil Mismar, member of the Palestinian National Council] 
*"The greatest crime in the history of mankind and a political, legal, and moral sin"* [PA Ministry of Information] 
*"The greatest crime of the era... the slaughter of the basic moral and human values"* [Official PA daily] 
*"The level of the greatest war crimes that have been committed."* [Abbas Zaki, Fatah Central Committee member]

*"The dark promise"* [PA Ministry of Information] 
*"The black Balfour Promise"* [Official PA daily] 
*"The oppressive promise"* [Abbas Zaki, Fatah Movement Central Committee member] 
*"The wretched promise"* [The Fatah Movement]




"*The first organized state-terror is the terror of the British crown through the Balfour Promise" *[Official PA daily editorial] 
*"Britain bequeathed all of the means of oppression and violence against our people to the Zionist colonialism"*
[Issa Karake, Director PLO Commission of Prisoners Affairs]
*"The ceremony [celebrating the Balfour Declaration]... turns Britain into an enemy of the principles of justice and humanity."*
[PLO Executive Committee member Dr. Zakariya Al-Agha]
*"This [British] pride in the establishment of the racist entity on our land... is the definition of disgrace.'" *
[Secretary-General of Abbas' Office Tayeb Abd Al-Rahim]

*"A promise from those who do not own to those who are not entitled"* [Numerous PA leaders and the Fatah Movement]

(full article online)

The Balfour Declaration: "The greatest crime in the history of mankind" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs in Yemen, Berbers in North Africa and other Semitic tribes converted to Judaism in the early Middle Ages, that are known historical facts. BTW, most Mizrahi sef-identified as Arabs.
> 
> Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia
> Berber Jews - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> Speaking a language, the Arabic language, does not make one an Arab, any more than speaking English makes one an indigenous English person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew self-identifies as an Arab, how can you deny him this right?
Click to expand...


Oh, jeez, look.....All you did what repeat what I did say.

"The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism."

And sorry, really sorry, but Mizrahi Jews are not only NOT Arabs, but do not identify as Arabs.  If any Arab did enter the Nation and converted, then yes, that Arab (s) may call themselves Jews of Arab ethnicity.

Any more than Ashkenazi or Sepharadic Jews identify as "Europeans".

How do I know?


----------



## JoelT1

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs in Yemen, Berbers in North Africa and other Semitic tribes converted to Judaism in the early Middle Ages, that are known historical facts. BTW, most Mizrahi sef-identified as Arabs.
> 
> Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia
> Berber Jews - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> Speaking a language, the Arabic language, does not make one an Arab, any more than speaking English makes one an indigenous English person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew self-identifies as an Arab, how can you deny him this right?
Click to expand...


Jews identified as Arabs?  Except for different languages, religions, heritages, histories, cultures and origins.


----------



## JoelT1

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs in Yemen, Berbers in North Africa and other Semitic tribes converted to Judaism in the early Middle Ages, that are known historical facts. BTW, most Mizrahi sef-identified as Arabs.
> 
> Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia
> Berber Jews - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> Speaking a language, the Arabic language, does not make one an Arab, any more than speaking English makes one an indigenous English person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew self-identifies as an Arab, how can you deny him this right?
Click to expand...


BTW, “Semitic” applies to languages, not to “tribes” Now you know


----------



## Sixties Fan

You wouldn’t know it from consuming American media, for whom any mention of the Jewish state as anything but an aggressor is an inconvenience, but the sort of ramming attack we’ve witnessed yesterday afternoon in lower Manhattan was first used against Israelis by Palestinian terrorists. 

The very first such attack, according to most available records, occurred on Feburary 18, 1987, when an IDF force was patrolling the Askar refugee camp, just east of Nablus. At around 9:30 a.m., as the soldiers were approaching a school, a Mercedes driven by a Palestinian named Samir Ibrahim Harisha took a sharp turn, plowing into the group. One soldier, Nir Bitan, was tossed in the air and sustained a severe injury. He lay unconscious in his hospital bed for more than a year before succumbing. Another soldier was wounded in the attack. 

Less than two years later, on November 30, 1989, Avigdor Dahari, a father of six who operated a food stand just outside of the Gaza Strip, was closing up shop for a day. A hungry soldier approached him and asked for a quick sandwich, and Dahari was glad to abide. As he was preparing the food, however, a car driven by a Palestinian terrorist came careening down the road, hitting Dahari in the head and killing him on the spot.

(full article online)

A Short history of Ramming Attacks


----------



## Sixties Fan

UNRWA does indeed condemn Hamas activity underneath UNRWA schools. 

Yet UNRWA says nothing about Hamas activity inside the UNRWA schools.  

Hamas, defined as a terror group by the US, the UN, the EU, the UK, Canada and Australia, has won successive elections since 1999, to lead both the UNRWA workers union and the UNRWA teachers union.

Hamas influences generations of descendants of the 1948 war to engage in the 'right of return' through jihad - holy war - to take back Arab villages that existed before 1948. 

New school books used by UNRWA teach that the Jewish presence in Palestine is “temporary.” 

Since 2016, the name "Israel" has disappeared in all UNRWA texts, replaced by the expression "Zionist occupation." 

(full article online)

What goes ono under the surface of UNRWA schools is not the problem


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Samson Option (Vic Rosenthal) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel’s “Plan Dalet”: The Green Light for Zionism’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*
> *by Alan Hart*
> 
> *On that day in 1948, two months before Israel’s unilateral declaration of independence in defiance of the will of the organized international community as it then was at the UN, Zionism’s in-Palestine political and military leaders met in Tel Aviv to formally adopt PLAN DALET, the blueprint with operational military orders for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.*
> 
> *They did not and never would refer to the crime they authorised as ethnic cleansing. Their euphemism for it was “transfer”.*
> 
> *As noted in an excellent anniversary briefing paper by IMEU (the American-founded Institute for Middle East Understanding), from the earliest days of modern political Zionism its advocates grappled with the problem of creating a Jewish majority state in a part of the world where Palestinian Arabs were the overwhelming majority of the population.*
> 
> *The earliest insider information we have on Zionism’s thinking is from the diary of Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism’s colonial-like enterprise. He wrote:*
> 
> *“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country… expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”*
> 
> *Those words were committed to paper by Herzl in 1895 but they were not published (in other words they were suppressed) until 1962.*
> 
> *By August 1937 “transfer” was a discreet but hot topic for discussion at the 20th Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. All in attendance were aware that the process of dispossessing the Palestinian peasants (the fellahin) mainly by purchasing land from absentee owners had been underway for years. Referring to this David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, said:*
> 
> *“You are no doubt aware of the (Jewish National Fund’s) activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin…Jewish power (in Palestine), which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”*
> 
> *A year later Ben-Gurion told a meeting of the Jewish Agency that he supported compulsory transfer. He added:*
> 
> *“I don’t see anything immoral in it.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States has a plan in case someone threatens the US.
> Several I would say.
> One of them, for sure, is using Nuclear Power.
> 
> It never uses it.
> 
> In your mind, just because they ever came up with that plan to protect America and American lives, but have never used it, and possibly never will......is reason for you to believe that you need to bash that plan.
> 
> All countries have many plans to deal with what may come up against it or against their people.
> 
> According to you, only Jews must be vilified for having any plans to protect their country and ALL the people in it, Jews and non Jews, because you cannot help believing that Jews have no right to defend themselves ON their OWN land, their own homeland.
> 
> Lets count the way one can believe in anything you have read and have taken to heart:
> 
> 1)  The Earth is FLAT
> 
> 2)  Dinosaurs and Humans roamed the Earth at the same time
> 
> 3) Zionists are not Jews, they are converted Jews from Khazar
> 
> 
> Houston, we have a problem.
Click to expand...




Once yet again you favor me with more of the same weak deceptive gibberish...I suspect that even in the event that you were correctly educated your pulp-laden, atrophied little Zio-brain would impulsively revert back to this swill...Simply posting these assertions must, in your simple mind, equate to an axiomatic truth...as previously explained an Israeli geneticist proved that over 90% of Israeli Jews are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...if you dispute or ignore this fact you are obligated to disprove it with evidence and not empty swagger...


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> The only way there would be "Arab Jews" is if ethnically Arab people converted to Judaism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs in Yemen, Berbers in North Africa and other Semitic tribes converted to Judaism in the early Middle Ages, that are known historical facts. BTW, most Mizrahi sef-identified as Arabs.
> 
> Himyarite Kingdom - Wikipedia
> Berber Jews - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> Speaking a language, the Arabic language, does not make one an Arab, any more than speaking English makes one an indigenous English person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew self-identifies as an Arab, how can you deny him this right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews identified as Arabs?  Except for different languages, religions, heritages, histories, cultures and origins.
Click to expand...



Wrong yet again dunce: the ancient Jews were 'Arabized' to the extent that they spoke Aramaic and were of Semitic origin---unlike the fake Eastern European Jews who populate Israel as we speak...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all true and important for everyone in these discussions to wrap their mind around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read Dr. Elhaik's paper?  I took a look at it this afternoon.
> 
> View attachment 158098
> 
> The interpretation given above is not found in the actual paper, and the paper itself has problems -- not the least of which is trying to compare DNA of modern Ashkenazi Jews with modern Khazars (which do not exist).
> 
> Even if the above was true -- it is completely irrelevant to the conflict since the Jewish people are ONE people who have the same rights for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands as any other peoples do.
Click to expand...



Wrong yet again Shusha: DNA evidence presented by Elhaik is conclusive and beyond debate...to state that it is irrelevant because it topples one of the central pillars of Zionist justifications is equally foolish...claiming that an eastern European Jewish minority had valid claims for "for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands " demands proof which you do not furnish...the inherent paradox is that these fictive assertions of 'self-determination and sovereignty " for a non-native minority usurp the valid property rights of a people who have resided on these lands in overwhelming majority for 13 successive centuries!!!


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all true and important for everyone in these discussions to wrap their mind around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read Dr. Elhaik's paper?  I took a look at it this afternoon.
> 
> View attachment 158098
> 
> The interpretation given above is not found in the actual paper, and the paper itself has problems -- not the least of which is trying to compare DNA of modern Ashkenazi Jews with modern Khazars (which do not exist).
> 
> Even if the above was true -- it is completely irrelevant to the conflict since the Jewish people are ONE people who have the same rights for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands as any other peoples do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again Shusha: DNA evidence presented by Elhaik is conclusive and beyond debate...to state that it is irrelevant because it topples one of the central pillars of Zionist justifications is equally foolish...claiming that an eastern European Jewish minority had valid claims for "for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands " demands proof which you do not furnish...the inherent paradox is that these fictive assertions of 'self-determination and sovereignty " for a non-native minority usurp the valid property rights of a people who have resided on these lands in overwhelming majority for 13 successive centuries!!!
Click to expand...


These are just more of your hysterical tirades. In terms of the various Arab-Moslem/ Christian/ Mongol invasions, it’s ludicrous to pose your silly “13 successive centuries” nonsense. 

You might want to retreat to the similarly nonsense claim by Monty that Moslems have lived in “Pal’istan” for “thousands of years”. That’s curious as the politico-religious ideology of Islamism didn’t exist thousands of years ago. 

You flamers/ screamers are a hoot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> WAS IT  *EVER * IMPLEMENTED ?
> 
> The Jews were attacked from 1920 on, and that Plan Dalet idea was happening during the Arab aggression between 1936 and 1939.
> The Arabs wanted to expel or kill all Jews.
> 
> What plan would YOU come up with to deal with the Arab plan to kill all the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States has a plan in case someone threatens the US.
> Several I would say.
> One of them, for sure, is using Nuclear Power.
> 
> It never uses it.
> 
> In your mind, just because they ever came up with that plan to protect America and American lives, but have never used it, and possibly never will......is reason for you to believe that you need to bash that plan.
> 
> All countries have many plans to deal with what may come up against it or against their people.
> 
> According to you, only Jews must be vilified for having any plans to protect their country and ALL the people in it, Jews and non Jews, because you cannot help believing that Jews have no right to defend themselves ON their OWN land, their own homeland.
> 
> Lets count the way one can believe in anything you have read and have taken to heart:
> 
> 1)  The Earth is FLAT
> 
> 2)  Dinosaurs and Humans roamed the Earth at the same time
> 
> 3) Zionists are not Jews, they are converted Jews from Khazar
> 
> 
> Houston, we have a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you favor me with more of the same weak deceptive gibberish...I suspect that even in the event that you were correctly educated your pulp-laden, atrophied little Zio-brain would impulsively revert back to this swill...Simply posting these assertions must, in your simple mind, equate to an axiomatic truth...as previously explained an Israeli geneticist proved that over 90% of Israeli Jews are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...if you dispute or ignore this fact you are obligated to disprove it with evidence and not empty swagger...
Click to expand...

WOW.....Such Christian anger and hatred for Jews.

You are not saying anything new. Except that it is only 'new' since 1948.  Muslims hate losing.  Especially to Jews.  

Who cares what some alleged "Israeli" geneticist has come up with.
Not the Jews.

The Jewish People have all the proof, the history, the archeology, etc.
that they are "90%" from the land of Israel, you like it or not.

So, yawn, and yawn, and yawn again.

You are one of the clearest proofs as to why many of  the  Jewish Nation needed to return to their ancient homeland to rebuild and be sovereign over their own ancient homeland.

And they are not ever giving it up again.

Not to Crazy Christians.

And not to Crazy Muslims.

Both bastard religions have murdered enough Jews as it is.
This time, there will be something called Justice to take care of the crimes perpetrated on the Jewish People.

Never Again !!!! (Do you know where that saying comes from? )

Go ahead, of master of knowledge about the Jewish people.
Keep up the Inquisition.
Keep it going.

Israel is going nowhere and the Jewish People are never going to allow pogroms and holocausts against them to happen ever again.


Let me say it again:

*NEVER  AGAIN !!!*


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all true and important for everyone in these discussions to wrap their mind around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read Dr. Elhaik's paper?  I took a look at it this afternoon.
> 
> View attachment 158098
> 
> The interpretation given above is not found in the actual paper, and the paper itself has problems -- not the least of which is trying to compare DNA of modern Ashkenazi Jews with modern Khazars (which do not exist).
> 
> Even if the above was true -- it is completely irrelevant to the conflict since the Jewish people are ONE people who have the same rights for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands as any other peoples do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again Shusha: DNA evidence presented by Elhaik is conclusive and beyond debate...to state that it is irrelevant because it topples one of the central pillars of Zionist justifications is equally foolish...claiming that an eastern European Jewish minority had valid claims for "for self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands " demands proof which you do not furnish...the inherent paradox is that these fictive assertions of 'self-determination and sovereignty " for a non-native minority usurp the valid property rights of a people who have resided on these lands in overwhelming majority for 13 successive centuries!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These are just more of your hysterical tirades. In terms of the various Arab-Moslem/ Christian/ Mongol invasions, it’s ludicrous to pose your silly “13 successive centuries” nonsense.
> 
> You might want to retreat to the similarly nonsense claim by Monty that Moslems have lived in “Pal’istan” for “thousands of years”. That’s curious as the politico-religious ideology of Islamism didn’t exist thousands of years ago.
> 
> You flamers/ screamers are a hoot.
Click to expand...



Gosh you neglected any proof or link...how unusual...please endeavor to locate someone a tad better educated to explain the 7th century Muslim conquests of Persia, and the subsequent Arab residencies which follow for centuries...Palestine became entirely Arabized from the late period of the 7th century until the criminal seizure of Historic Palestine by Eastern European Khazar-convert Jewish trash...it genuinely bewilders me why someone of your obvious intellectual limitations participates in this forum...the sum of your posts are awkwardly smug bromides and vapid sarcasm...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite this institutional backing, the theory is absolutely without evidence. As any historian will tell you, generations of Jews, like generations of any people, leave historical traces behind them. These traces come in multiple forms. For starters, people leave behind them historical documents and archaeological data. Predictably, archaeologic evidence about the widespread existence of Jews in Khazaria is almost nonexistent. While a series of independent sources does testify to the existence in the 10th century of Jews in the Kingdom of Khazaria, and while some of these sources also indicate that the ruling elite of Khazaria embraced Judaism, the Khazarian state was destroyed by Russians during the 960s. In other words, we can be confident that Judaism was not particularly widespread in that kingdom.

Read more: Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense...the Arab aggression against the waves of Zionist immigration was based upon a genuine fear of their political and military intent...a fear that was later entirely justified...
> 
> 
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States has a plan in case someone threatens the US.
> Several I would say.
> One of them, for sure, is using Nuclear Power.
> 
> It never uses it.
> 
> In your mind, just because they ever came up with that plan to protect America and American lives, but have never used it, and possibly never will......is reason for you to believe that you need to bash that plan.
> 
> All countries have many plans to deal with what may come up against it or against their people.
> 
> According to you, only Jews must be vilified for having any plans to protect their country and ALL the people in it, Jews and non Jews, because you cannot help believing that Jews have no right to defend themselves ON their OWN land, their own homeland.
> 
> Lets count the way one can believe in anything you have read and have taken to heart:
> 
> 1)  The Earth is FLAT
> 
> 2)  Dinosaurs and Humans roamed the Earth at the same time
> 
> 3) Zionists are not Jews, they are converted Jews from Khazar
> 
> 
> Houston, we have a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you favor me with more of the same weak deceptive gibberish...I suspect that even in the event that you were correctly educated your pulp-laden, atrophied little Zio-brain would impulsively revert back to this swill...Simply posting these assertions must, in your simple mind, equate to an axiomatic truth...as previously explained an Israeli geneticist proved that over 90% of Israeli Jews are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...if you dispute or ignore this fact you are obligated to disprove it with evidence and not empty swagger...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW.....Such Christian anger and hatred for Jews.
> 
> You are not saying anything new. Except that it is only 'new' since 1948.  Muslims hate losing.  Especially to Jews.
> 
> Who cares what some alleged "Israeli" geneticist has come up with.
> Not the Jews.
> 
> The Jewish People have all the proof, the history, the archeology, etc.
> that they are "90%" from the land of Israel, you like it or not.
> 
> So, yawn, and yawn, and yawn again.
> 
> You are one of the clearest proofs as to why many of  the  Jewish Nation needed to return to their ancient homeland to rebuild and be sovereign over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> And they are not ever giving it up again.
> 
> Not to Crazy Christians.
> 
> And not to Crazy Muslims.
> 
> Both bastard religions have murdered enough Jews as it is.
> This time, there will be something called Justice to take care of the crimes perpetrated on the Jewish People.
> 
> Never Again !!!! (Do you know where that saying comes from? )
> 
> Go ahead, of master of knowledge about the Jewish people.
> Keep up the Inquisition.
> Keep it going.
> 
> Israel is going nowhere and the Jewish People are never going to allow pogroms and holocausts against them to happen ever again.
> 
> 
> Let me say it again:
> 
> *NEVER  AGAIN !!!*
Click to expand...



Not a Christian you mindless drone...typical to form you manage once again to post nothing of substance or proof of your febrile claims...its almost unfair to even argue with someone as dumb and void of general knowledge as you, but then I remind myself of the spineless, immoral nature of rank-n-file Zio-trash and I enjoy it


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Despite this institutional backing, the theory is absolutely without evidence. As any historian will tell you, generations of Jews, like generations of any people, leave historical traces behind them. These traces come in multiple forms. For starters, people leave behind them historical documents and archaeological data. Predictably, archaeologic evidence about the widespread existence of Jews in Khazaria is almost nonexistent. While a series of independent sources does testify to the existence in the 10th century of Jews in the Kingdom of Khazaria, and while some of these sources also indicate that the ruling elite of Khazaria embraced Judaism, the Khazarian state was destroyed by Russians during the 960s. In other words, we can be confident that Judaism was not particularly widespread in that kingdom.
> 
> Read more: Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.




again for the benefit of determined ignorance: Elhaik's DNA proofs are conclusive...keep spinning


----------



## Sixties Fan

That’s because the proof is based primarily on the absence of evidence rather than its presence – like the fact that an event as unprecedented as an entire kingdom’s conversion to Judaism merited no mention in contemporaneous sources. “The silence of so many sources about the Khazars’ Judaism is very suspicious,” Stampfer said. “The Byzantines, the geonim [Jewish religious leaders of the sixth to eleventh centuries], the sages of Egypt – none of them have a word about the Jewish Khazars.”

The research ended up taking him four years. “I thought I’d finish in two months, but I discovered that there was a huge amount of work. I had to check sources that aren’t in my field, and I consulted and got help from many people.”

Stampfer said his research had no political motives, though he recognizes that the topic is politically fraught. “It’s a really interesting historical question, but it has political implications,” he said. “As a historian, I’m naturally worried by the misuse of history. I think history should be removed from political discussions, but anyone who nevertheless wants to use history must at least present the correct facts. In this case, the facts are that the Khazars didn’t convert, the Jews aren’t descendants of the Khazars and the contemporary political problems between Israelis and Palestinians must be dealt with on the basis of current reality, not on the basis of a fictitious past.”


Jews are not descended from Khazars, Hebrew University historian says


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Despite this institutional backing, the theory is absolutely without evidence. As any historian will tell you, generations of Jews, like generations of any people, leave historical traces behind them. These traces come in multiple forms. For starters, people leave behind them historical documents and archaeological data. Predictably, archaeologic evidence about the widespread existence of Jews in Khazaria is almost nonexistent. While a series of independent sources does testify to the existence in the 10th century of Jews in the Kingdom of Khazaria, and while some of these sources also indicate that the ruling elite of Khazaria embraced Judaism, the Khazarian state was destroyed by Russians during the 960s. In other words, we can be confident that Judaism was not particularly widespread in that kingdom.
> 
> Read more: Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.





LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The link you posted does not disprove Elhaik's DNA-evidence...Forward is a form of Zionist propaganda you twit...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> That’s because the proof is based primarily on the absence of evidence rather than its presence – like the fact that an event as unprecedented as an entire kingdom’s conversion to Judaism merited no mention in contemporaneous sources. “The silence of so many sources about the Khazars’ Judaism is very suspicious,” Stampfer said. “The Byzantines, the geonim [Jewish religious leaders of the sixth to eleventh centuries], the sages of Egypt – none of them have a word about the Jewish Khazars.”
> 
> The research ended up taking him four years. “I thought I’d finish in two months, but I discovered that there was a huge amount of work. I had to check sources that aren’t in my field, and I consulted and got help from many people.”
> 
> Stampfer said his research had no political motives, though he recognizes that the topic is politically fraught. “It’s a really interesting historical question, but it has political implications,” he said. “As a historian, I’m naturally worried by the misuse of history. I think history should be removed from political discussions, but anyone who nevertheless wants to use history must at least present the correct facts. In this case, the facts are that the Khazars didn’t convert, the Jews aren’t descendants of the Khazars and the contemporary political problems between Israelis and Palestinians must be dealt with on the basis of current reality, not on the basis of a fictitious past.”
> 
> 
> Jews are not descended from Khazars, Hebrew University historian says





Please find someone to explain the critical difference between DNA evidence and contrary ( OPINION )...


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Khazar Myth and the New Anti-Semitism | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steven Plaut | 21 Iyyar 5767 – May 9, 2007 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> The Khazar Myth and the New Anti-Semitism | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steven Plaut | 21 Iyyar 5767 – May 9, 2007 | JewishPress.com




Attacking the 'Khazar ancestry' is entirely predictable given the propaganda requirements associated with the seizure of Palestine...a literal media-blitz has been mounted to convince millions that Jews are not direct descendants of Khazar-covnerts...Elhaik's DNA-evidence makes folly of these propaganda efforts...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am still laughing.  STOP.
> 
> You are becoming funnier than any Jewish comedian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another tepid pose...note how the fool cannot answer or refute the validity of my comments, thus posting a meaningless puerile jab...I suspect awkward laughter is all you have at your limited disposal...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States has a plan in case someone threatens the US.
> Several I would say.
> One of them, for sure, is using Nuclear Power.
> 
> It never uses it.
> 
> In your mind, just because they ever came up with that plan to protect America and American lives, but have never used it, and possibly never will......is reason for you to believe that you need to bash that plan.
> 
> All countries have many plans to deal with what may come up against it or against their people.
> 
> According to you, only Jews must be vilified for having any plans to protect their country and ALL the people in it, Jews and non Jews, because you cannot help believing that Jews have no right to defend themselves ON their OWN land, their own homeland.
> 
> Lets count the way one can believe in anything you have read and have taken to heart:
> 
> 1)  The Earth is FLAT
> 
> 2)  Dinosaurs and Humans roamed the Earth at the same time
> 
> 3) Zionists are not Jews, they are converted Jews from Khazar
> 
> 
> Houston, we have a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you favor me with more of the same weak deceptive gibberish...I suspect that even in the event that you were correctly educated your pulp-laden, atrophied little Zio-brain would impulsively revert back to this swill...Simply posting these assertions must, in your simple mind, equate to an axiomatic truth...as previously explained an Israeli geneticist proved that over 90% of Israeli Jews are the direct descendants of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism...if you dispute or ignore this fact you are obligated to disprove it with evidence and not empty swagger...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW.....Such Christian anger and hatred for Jews.
> 
> You are not saying anything new. Except that it is only 'new' since 1948.  Muslims hate losing.  Especially to Jews.
> 
> Who cares what some alleged "Israeli" geneticist has come up with.
> Not the Jews.
> 
> The Jewish People have all the proof, the history, the archeology, etc.
> that they are "90%" from the land of Israel, you like it or not.
> 
> So, yawn, and yawn, and yawn again.
> 
> You are one of the clearest proofs as to why many of  the  Jewish Nation needed to return to their ancient homeland to rebuild and be sovereign over their own ancient homeland.
> 
> And they are not ever giving it up again.
> 
> Not to Crazy Christians.
> 
> And not to Crazy Muslims.
> 
> Both bastard religions have murdered enough Jews as it is.
> This time, there will be something called Justice to take care of the crimes perpetrated on the Jewish People.
> 
> Never Again !!!! (Do you know where that saying comes from? )
> 
> Go ahead, of master of knowledge about the Jewish people.
> Keep up the Inquisition.
> Keep it going.
> 
> Israel is going nowhere and the Jewish People are never going to allow pogroms and holocausts against them to happen ever again.
> 
> 
> Let me say it again:
> 
> *NEVER  AGAIN !!!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not a Christian you mindless drone...typical to form you manage once again to post nothing of substance or proof of your febrile claims...its almost unfair to even argue with someone as dumb and void of general knowledge as you, but then I remind myself of the spineless, immoral nature of rank-n-file Zio-trash and I enjoy it
Click to expand...

It is of absolutely no interest if you are a Christian, Muslims, Atheist, Terrestrial, martian or anything else.

You have always been a loser about Jewish history and Jews and it really does not matter to them.

Pogroms since Christianity took over.  The Inquisition which does not end.  The Holocaust.

One lie after another of what Jews are "capable of doing" and it the Jew haters now think they can destroy the Jews with "You are not the Jews" poison.

Poison on, it does not change anything.

The Jewish Nation has regained sovereignty over less than 20% of their ancient homeland.  And they are keeping every inch of it, and are done giving land for peace, a peace Jew haters like the Arab leaders have no intention of ever agreeing to.

I am a Zionist = the national liberation movement of the Jewish people.

And proud of it, and will continue to be one, amongst many, not only Jews but non Jews who do know the truth.

Conspiracy theories and myths against the Jews have existed for almost 2000 years.

We do not expect it to ever change against such brilliant minds like yours.

Hate on !!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

A year ago, scientifically illiterate media started reporting on a study by Eran Elhaik of Johns Hopkins University that claimed that it proved decisively that Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars, and not the Middle East.

I showed then not only that Elhaik's paper was sloppy and that the methodology was problematic, but also that Elhaik was clearly painting the bullseye after shooting the arrow - he intended from the beginning to prove the bizarre Khazar theory before gathering data, the exact opposite of how a scientist is supposed to act.

It turns out that the researchers who gathered the datasets that Elhaik cherry-picked to reach his foregone conclusions have demonstratively debunked Elhaik and his methods.

From their paper, named "No Evidence from Genome-Wide Data of a Khazar Origin for the Ashkenazi Jews":
--------

Since this is a scientific paper, they can't say that Elhaik was a hack, but it is clear that his methods - using data from these very researchers - prove how low people will stoop to buttress their biases.

Of course, the media will never give this study (written last year) the same coverage that Elhaik's lies received.

(full article online)

"Khazar" study thoroughly debunked ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is only slight embarrassment in the book about this incident.
 As a result of this disturbance the Commander-in-Chief did not forward names of officers or men of Anzac Units which were camped at Surafend at the time and who had been recommended by the Divisional Commander for inclusion in the Peace Despatch; but subsequently he relented out of consideration for the good work of the Division and forwarded most of the names in a supplementary despatch.This is the sort of historical event  that no one wants to remember. It shows that the Arabs were murderers and thieves, and that the New Zealand army took matters into their own hands to destroy the entire Arab community in retaliation.

The former wouldn't be reported today because it sounds like anti-Arab racism. The latter makes it sound like enlightened armies engaged in routine gross violations of human rights.

And who wants to talk about that unless the army is Jewish?

(full article online)

New Zealand army units vs. thieving Palestinian Arabs, November 1917 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Wrong yet again Shusha: DNA evidence presented by Elhaik is conclusive and beyond debate...


It doesn't say what you think it says.  

But even if it did say what you think it says -- that some Jews are converts from hundreds of years ago -- it makes not one whit of difference in the rights of peoples.  

The rights of peoples are NOT based on their DNA.  DNA is not even a contributing factor to rights let alone the determining factor.  You want to play that game?  How about if we say that ANY Arab Palestinian without "enough" Canaanite blood has not rights to live in the territory in question?  How about if we say that no American without First Nations blood has a right to be a US citizen and live in the US?  

The very idea of it is ridiculous.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...Palestine became entirely Arabized from the late period of the 7th century until the criminal seizure of Historic Palestine by Eastern European Khazar-convert Jewish trash...it genuinely bewilders me ....



It bewilders me how someone can -- in the same sentence -- discuss the "Arabization" of Palestine vs. the "criminal seizure" of Palestine as though the one was benign and the other malignant.  

Palestine  Israel was Judaized *ahem RE-Judaized*.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again Shusha: DNA evidence presented by Elhaik is conclusive and beyond debate...
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't say what you think it says.
> 
> But even if it did say what you think it says -- that some Jews are converts from hundreds of years ago -- it makes not one whit of difference in the rights of peoples.
> 
> The rights of peoples are NOT based on their DNA.  DNA is not even a contributing factor to rights let alone the determining factor.  You want to play that game?  How about if we say that ANY Arab Palestinian without "enough" Canaanite blood has not rights to live in the territory in question?  How about if we say that no American without First Nations blood has a right to be a US citizen and live in the US?
> 
> The very idea of it is ridiculous.
Click to expand...




"what I think it says???"  You are so remarkably lost in this exchange that I almost pity you...you speak of 'rights' that are completely fictive, the DNA question merely resolves one of the central claims of Zionist polemics: that today's Jews are genetic relations to the ancient Jews, DNA proves not!  Yet you appear to dismiss the relevance of the DNA proof because it obliterates a long-standing Zionist lie.  But the real gem is your standard reference to native Americans...When the Christian Europeans were killing the native tribes there was no international law...no protections for the property rights of native peoples...however this was not the case in 1948...hence your analogy falls flat, as does your febrile bullshit...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again Shusha: DNA evidence presented by Elhaik is conclusive and beyond debate...
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't say what you think it says.
> 
> But even if it did say what you think it says -- that some Jews are converts from hundreds of years ago -- it makes not one whit of difference in the rights of peoples.
> 
> The rights of peoples are NOT based on their DNA.  DNA is not even a contributing factor to rights let alone the determining factor.  You want to play that game?  How about if we say that ANY Arab Palestinian without "enough" Canaanite blood has not rights to live in the territory in question?  How about if we say that no American without First Nations blood has a right to be a US citizen and live in the US?
> 
> The very idea of it is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "what I think it says???"  You are so remarkably lost in this exchange that I almost pity you...you speak of 'rights' that are completely fictive, the DNA question merely resolves one of the central claims of Zionist polemics: that today's Jews are genetic relations to the ancient Jews, DNA proves not!  Yet you appear to dismiss the relevance of the DNA proof because it obliterates a long-standing Zionist lie.  But the real gem is your standard reference to native Americans...When the Christian Europeans were killing the native tribes there was no international law...no protections for the property rights of native peoples...however this was not the case in 1948...hence your analogy falls flat, as does your febrile bullshit...
Click to expand...


You’re a bit slow on the uptake so I’ll make the point that your ill-formed and sloppy attempt at the “DNA argument” would similarly apply to the Moslem, Christian, Mongol ancestry of the people you carelessly and fraudulently assert had “lived there for 13 centuries”.

It’s actually comical to watch you refute your own attempt at argument. 

What a hoot.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.



Ventura77 said:


> HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL


*(COMMENT)*

•   What Zionist offensive?"  What "attacking military campaign?"

•  The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.”  The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).

§  Israeli 'War of Independence'  

The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.  (SOURCE:  Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)

As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce.  (SOURCE:  Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.  (SOURCE:  “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​
•  Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers  from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State.  I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming.  After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.

•  You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support.  (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC:  A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory) 

*(SALIENT POINT)*

No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant. 

As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625).  It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations. 


"Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
who are struggling to survive.
These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
— Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •   What Zionist offensive?"  What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> •  The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.”  The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).
> 
> §  Israeli 'War of Independence'
> 
> The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.  (SOURCE:  Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)
> 
> As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce.  (SOURCE:  Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.  (SOURCE:  “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​
> •  Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers  from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State.  I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming.  After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> •  You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support.  (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC:  A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)
> 
> *(SALIENT POINT)*
> 
> No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.
> 
> As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625).  It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.
> 
> 
> "Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
> who are struggling to survive.
> These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
> — Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.

First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •   What Zionist offensive?"  What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> •  The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.”  The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).
> 
> §  Israeli 'War of Independence'
> 
> The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.  (SOURCE:  Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)
> 
> As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce.  (SOURCE:  Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.  (SOURCE:  “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​
> •  Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers  from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State.  I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming.  After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> •  You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support.  (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC:  A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)
> 
> *(SALIENT POINT)*
> 
> No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.
> 
> As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625).  It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.
> 
> 
> "Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
> who are struggling to survive.
> These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
> — Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.
> 
> First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
> Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
> Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • What Zionist offensive?" What "attacking military campaign?"


Palestine was born under belligerent occupation. There were varying degrees of violence required to maintain that occupation.

When Britain was about to leave Palestine Israel rolled its military across Palestine attacking and expelling unarmed civilians from their homes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What Zionist offensive?" What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under belligerent occupation. There were varying degrees of violence required to maintain that occupation.
> 
> When Britain was about to leave Palestine Israel rolled its military across Palestine attacking and expelling unarmed civilians from their homes.
Click to expand...

Have some hot chocolate and go to sleep


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What Zionist offensive?" What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under belligerent occupation. There were varying degrees of violence required to maintain that occupation.
> 
> When Britain was about to leave Palestine Israel rolled its military across Palestine attacking and expelling unarmed civilians from their homes.
Click to expand...

You’re quite ignorant of history. The geographic area of Pal’istan was the subject of invasion by various conquerors, among them being the Turks. And yes, the Turk islamics used varying degrees of violence and repression to maintain control.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 ...


Repeat after me....

Land ownership is not sovereignty.

Land ownership is not sovereignty.

Land ownership is not sovereignty.

(And P F Tinmore , you know better than to have labelled that post a "Winner".)

Also, those statistics do no accurately reflect the reality of land ownership at the time.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> "what I think it says???"  You are so remarkably lost in this exchange that I almost pity you...you speak of 'rights' that are completely fictive, the DNA question merely resolves one of the central claims of Zionist polemics: that today's Jews are genetic relations to the ancient Jews, DNA proves not!  Yet you appear to dismiss the relevance of the DNA proof because it obliterates a long-standing Zionist lie.  But the real gem is your standard reference to native Americans...When the Christian Europeans were killing the native tribes there was no international law...no protections for the property rights of native peoples...however this was not the case in 1948...hence your analogy falls flat, as does your febrile bullshit...



1.  DNA evidence has consistently proven that all Jews have Levantine origins (yes, including the Ashkenazi).  This particular study that you quote does not say what you think it says.  Why?  Because there are no Khazars to compare DNA with!

2.  If DNA is the definitive determiner of human rights -- let's get ON with testing the Arab Palestinians.

3.  International law in 1948 upheld the already existing rights of the Jewish people to their historical and ancestral lands.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

I don't disagree with all of this.



Ventura77 said:


> The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no question that since the very outset of the San Remo principles, the Arab Higher Committee had stated their objections to the Allied Powers; and in particular, to the selected Mandatory (UK).

Missed opportunities can best be evaluated in the annuals of history.  It is about the opportunity costs versus the cost at the end of a long-term outcome.



Ventura77 said:


> First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).  Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
> Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.


*(COMMENT)*

As I have said before, the ownership of property, which is a civil law real estate matter, is completely different from:

•  Sovereignty and Independence
•  The Protection and Preservation of a Culture​
The idea of the "land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State," was not the specific intent at the time of the San Remo decision.  The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State."  The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.

By 1923, when the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation (several times) in the creation of an autonomous government --- to the development of the Muslim Mufti's active participation in antisemitic activities, --- to the Muslim Cleric that assembled the Palestinian Black Hand, the idea of an assimilated population (Jewish - Arab), peacefully living together, was becoming ever more distant possibility.  
Included in the 1930 White Paper on the development of self-governing institutions, the following observations was made:


“that the time has now come when the important question of the establishment of a measure of self-government in Palestine must, in the interests of the community as a whole, be taken in hand without further delay.”
But, there was no question that by the mid-to-late 1930's  _(sometimes called the Period of Arab Rebellion 1936-1939)_ The Supreme Arab Committee, _(becoming more and more popularly know as the Arab Higher Committee)_ heavily influenced by the Grand-Mufti of Jerusalem decreed that a called a general strike, which had started earlier --- (territorial wide work stoppage) --- should continue until *Jewish immigration* was suspended.  This was viewed as a form of coercion directed against the Palestine Administration; to attain what they could not achieve through diplomatic of political means.  Many outside and independent observers saw this as evidence that the Arab Palestinian was not yet able to stand-alone and an emerging government.  

_As history has shown, every single regional country immediately surrounding Israel since the end of WWII, as been involved in self-destructive and violent overthrows of the original self-government established at the termination of their associated Mandate._​
On the 1939 outbreak of war, the Jewish people were once again in peril.  And it appeared that the principle players in the Arab Community in Palestine, had sided with the Axis Powers.  This strained the Jewish-Arab relationship even more.  Following the conclusion of WWII, the animosity between the two cultures lead many to believe that a single-state solution would be unworkable and would destabilize almost immediately.

In the thumbnail view, this is what drove support for Jewish Nationalism independent of the Arab Community.  No one trusted the Arab Community in Palestine, to act as the guardian of the Jewish People.  No one trusted them then, no one trusts them now.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.


Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This strained the Jewish-Arab relationship even more.


No, it was the settler colonial project that did that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This strained the Jewish-Arab relationship even more.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was the settler colonial project that did that.
Click to expand...


That’s true. The Islamist settler colonial project was interrupted. 

The Islamist caliphate had long since collapsed and the Islamists could no longer impose their fascistic system of dhimmitude on the non-Islamists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Zionism emerged as a national movement in Eastern Europe in the 1880’s. Its founder, Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), a Hungarian Jew, dreamt of establishing a Jewish State in the land of Palestine, a dream which was to be realised through colonisation and land acquisition. According to Zionist archives, the leadership of early Zionism believed that the native population of Palestine, as a result of this colonisation, would simply *“fold their tents and slip away”* or, if they resisted, they would be *“spirited across the borders”.
*
The Zionist Project - 1948


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionism emerged as a national movement in Eastern Europe in the 1880’s. Its founder, Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), a Hungarian Jew, dreamt of establishing a Jewish State in the land of Palestine, a dream which was to be realised through colonisation and land acquisition. According to Zionist archives, the leadership of early Zionism believed that the native population of Palestine, as a result of this colonisation, would simply *“fold their tents and slip away”* or, if they resisted, they would be *“spirited across the borders”.
> *
> The Zionist Project - 1948
Click to expand...


So, I will await your usual sidestep when you are tasked with explaining Arab-Israelis in Israel vs. Israeli-Gazans in Gaza’istan. 

Thanks. I can hear you stuttering and mumbling already.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionism emerged as a national movement in Eastern Europe in the 1880’s. Its founder, Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), a Hungarian Jew, dreamt of establishing a Jewish State in the land of Palestine, a dream which was to be realised through colonisation and land acquisition. According to Zionist archives, the leadership of early Zionism believed that the native population of Palestine, as a result of this colonisation, would simply *“fold their tents and slip away”* or, if they resisted, they would be *“spirited across the borders”.
> *
> The Zionist Project - 1948
Click to expand...

Lets not forget that this article you are posting comes from a "Palestinian" source. "Palestine and the Nakba" Really????

It is from the point of view of Muslim Arabs who cannot accept Jews having sovereignty over any part of the Jewish ancient homeland.

<<<". According to Zionist archives, the leadership of early Zionism believed that the native population of Palestine, as a result of this colonisation, would simply *“fold their tents and slip away”* or, if they resisted, they would be *“spirited across the borders”.>>
*
Pure Muslim/Arab bullcrap.  Jews did not come with an army against the non native Arab Muslims to send them out of the land.  That is a fact which you and those who keep writing that garbage continue to want others to forget.
Nothing new about some Muslims or Christians twisting what may have been said by Jews to turn it against them.

Zionism is not something "invented" by Herzl in 1897 or any other year.

Jews always looked to return to Zion, Jerusalem, and be sovereign over the land again. There has always been the Zionist vision, except that it took until Herzl recognized how bad things were going to continue for Jews in Europe that he and others began to take action to become sovereign of their own ancient land again.

Read what you like. Continue to believe the Christian/Muslim lies about the Jews.  Any lies.
Spin it anyway you like.

As I have posted on Balfour, some of the Muslims are going against their own Quran which is very specific about the Land belonging to the Jews.

It would have been much easier for the Arabs to claim any land for  their own State, but that is not what the Al Husseini clan was about from the start.  They followed a strict Muslim idea that Jews are to forever be dhimmies of Muslims.
No sovereignty, no rights.  Always at the mercy of some of the Muslims.

Gratefully not all Muslims think that way.
Unfortunately they do not have the power to stop those in power and put an end to the hell they have brought to all other Arabs in the region, especially those who are forced to be seen under the umbrella of eternal refugees.

The leaders in power do not care about those other clans they have isolated to not have any rights, either.

And clearly neither do you and all of those who do believe any and all things written against Zionism and Israel.

What a shame !!!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionism emerged as a national movement in Eastern Europe in the 1880’s. Its founder, Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), a Hungarian Jew, dreamt of establishing a Jewish State in the land of Palestine, a dream which was to be realised through colonisation and land acquisition. According to Zionist archives, the leadership of early Zionism believed that the native population of Palestine, as a result of this colonisation, would simply *“fold their tents and slip away”* or, if they resisted, they would be *“spirited across the borders”.
> *
> The Zionist Project - 1948
Click to expand...


Factually incorrect, You won't see in any of the hate sites You quote but:

1.Herzl was not the founder of Zionism.
2.Neither Syria-Palestine, Morocco or Gibraltar, are in Eastern Europe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Lets not forget that this article you are posting comes from a "Palestinian" source.


I know, if it is not from israelibullshit.il it is not a valid source.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
Click to expand...


Q. Is that why Arabs used to expel and massacre Palestinian Jews before Zionism?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Danny Ayalon presents: A history of the Palestinian people


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


[THIS is a Palestinian]

Hanan Ashrawi, the PLO Executive Committee member much sought after by Western media outlets, has just earned a gold medal for historical revisionism.

In a recent article intended for an Arabic-speaking audience, she asserted there were no Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

Instead, according to her, there were only “emigrants,” who left their ancestral homes voluntarily. Jews were not singled out for persecution, and if they were, it was, in reality, a plot by “Zionists.” 

This line of Palestinian argumentation is of a piece with other efforts to delegitimize Jewish history.

In other words, the Palestinian strategy, of which Ashrawi has been an integral part, is essentially to try to eliminate any grounds for Jewish self-determination and nationhood.

Which brings us to her preposterous claim that there were no Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

To get personal, according to Ashrawi, my wife’s life must be based on a lie.
----------
Think back to Yasser Arafat’s assertion to President Bill Clinton that there was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, seeking to make the insultingly bogus point that no Jewish connection to Jerusalem ever existed.

Or, more recently, to Arafat’s successor, Mahmoud Abbas, who spoke at the UN General Assembly last September.

He mentioned Christian and Muslim links to the land. Yet he pointedly omitted any reference to the Jewish tie, though it predates the other religions’ claims by thousands of years, and is buttressed by a Bible that both Christianity and Islam invoke, not to mention countless archaeological findings.

Or consider the Palestinian refusal to recognize the Jewish character of the State of Israel — and the broader efforts to question its very right to exist, despite the Balfour Declaration (1917), Treaty of San Remo (1920), League of Nations Mandate for Palestine (1922), Peel Commission (1936), UN Special Committee on Palestine (August 1947), UN General Assembly (November 1947), and UN membership since 1949. 

Apropos, compare the legal and historical case for Israel as a sovereign state with those of several neighboring countries, including Iraq and Jordan. Quite a contrast!

(full article online)

Hanan Ashrawi Is to Truth What Smoking Is to Health | HuffPost


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.

She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
Click to expand...

But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.

How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.

That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.

Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.

From themselves.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Will Palestinian Reconciliation Reduce Hamas’ Cash Flow? | Evelyn Gordon


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
Click to expand...


What happened when Egyptians made Muslims equal in taxation to Jews and Christians in Palestine?
Arab revolts...the fellahin pogroms.

How is it so that the Jews were not convinced by the Sharia version of _"democracy"_ Arabs promoted with such love in Palestine, *preposterous right?>*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

You keep saying "Zionist" as if it represented the entire Jewish Culture and the only political position held by the Jewish People _(that would be a misrepresentation of the facts)_.   

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism.  This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.  BUT, the Zionist represented only a minority of Jews, mostly from Russia but led by Austrians _(like Theodore Herzl)_ and Germans.  

The wider view held by the Jewish → regarded assimilation as most desirable but, the wide-spread anti-Semitism of the era, trying to make the Jewish Culture and the Hebrew Language --- come to be accepted as just another accepted aspect of society and fully integrated.  However, given the magnitude and scope of the hostility --- prejudice --- and --- discrimination against the Jewish Culture --- the ideas of nationalism and cultural assimilation were not considered all that viable; an aspiration --- yet an impossible realization.

While "Antisemitism" is generally an associate form of racism today; at the turn into the 20th Century --- racism as an unacceptable concept was largely ignored.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit. The Zionists wanted an exclusive Jewish state from day one.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

At about the same time as the outbreak of hostilities, which was to open the doors to the Great War, there were there were two principle challenges to the _status quo_ _(replacing the void behind the Sultan Rule of the Ottoman Empire)_ emerging in the territories covered by the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916):  

Not including in the complicated views the position and implications as the Holy Land of three great religions, the interest which it held for Christians, as well as for Moslems and Jews.

•  Turkification _(influenced by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk)_
•  Arabism (_influence by the Anglo-Arab expectation of independence by Sherif Husain, Emir of Mecca)_
•  Zionism _(influenced by the Balfour Declaration)_

*※ *_ Pan-Arabism is a form of justification for racism against non-Arabs.  It is code for cultural and ethnic superiority of Arabs.  It is not quite the same as the Arabism of post-WWI._​
Nothing bout the Zionist Movement was any different from the activities of other post-War Considerations --- varies entities shaping the region.  Exclusivity as an objective is no different in terms of its evolution:

√  Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day.
√  It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis.
√  Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
Click to expand...

How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?
Click to expand...


Ashrawi is a member of a Palestinian govt that declared *Sharia Laws as "at the basis of all legislation".*
She's representing a govt with an overwhelming Muslim majority and control.


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What happened when Egyptians made Muslims equal in taxation to Jews and Christians in Palestine?
> Arab revolts...the fellahin pogroms.
> 
> How is it so that the Jews were not convinced by the Sharia version of _"democracy"_ Arabs promoted with such love in Palestine, *preposterous right?>*
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?
Click to expand...

It is about her being an Arab.
About how some Arabs have this superiority complex over Jews based on the Jews not converting neither to Christianity nor Islam, and BOTH saying that EACH one has replaced Judaism.

Some Muslims are violent towards Jews.
Some Christians are violent towards Jews.

Ashwari wishes nothing good to ANY Jew.

Figure it out


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.


There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashrawi is a member of a Palestinian govt that declared *Sharia Laws as "at the basis of all legislation".*
> She's representing a govt with an overwhelming Muslim majority and control.
Click to expand...

There are no laws in Palestine restricting religion.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
Click to expand...

LOL,  Palestine is "ARAB LAND"
Like North Africa, Syria, Mesopotamia, Spain, Austria, etc which the Muslims  invaded and conquered even if it was for a short period of time as the Greeks and Romans had done?

Like the Ottoman Turks who were the masters over all of that land for 500 years with not one cry coming from any Arab about it being "their land" ?

And STILL, the Quran, the very same one so many Arabs read on a daily basis, says very clearly that it is the Land of Israel and it does BELONG to the Jewish People.

Clearly you do not care about the wisdom of the Arab ancestors when it comes to whom the land belongs, and always will.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashrawi is a member of a Palestinian govt that declared *Sharia Laws as "at the basis of all legislation".*
> She's representing a govt with an overwhelming Muslim majority and control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no laws in Palestine restricting religion.
Click to expand...

Court Jester, you are on your prime today


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is a shame that the tour guide didn't go to the media. It was a golden opportunity to highlight the Muslim leaders' fright of the truth, and it would have put the Waqf on the defensive -- they would have to double down on their reasons that a map makes them go crazy, knowing that the western world would ridicule them, which would shame them.

Shame is the best weapon the West has to force  the Waqf to treat visitors with basic respect. Otherwise they will continue to act like toddlers who don't want to hear the truth..

It is worth repeating that Muslims all freely admitted that the First and Second Temples were on the Temple Mount before 1967. Which is one more reason why people should be especially skeptical when they make claims today - lying in the service of the Umma is not only tolerated but expected.

This is a translation of a 15th century work by a Muslim scholar all about the Jewish Temples.

(full article online)

Frightened Waqf confiscates a map of the Second Temple from Christian tour guide ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
Click to expand...


Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well. 

Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.
> 
> She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.
> 
> How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.
> 
> That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.
> 
> Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.
> 
> From themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ashrawi is a member of a Palestinian govt that declared *Sharia Laws as "at the basis of all legislation".*
> She's representing a govt with an overwhelming Muslim majority and control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no laws in Palestine restricting religion.
Click to expand...


Is there an open synagogue in Ramallah or Gaza?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
> The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.
> 
> Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.
Click to expand...

There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
> The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.
> 
> Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.
Click to expand...


Q. Is there an open synagogue in Ramallah or Gazah?
Q. Are Jews allowed in the future Palestinian state? 

They specifically declare that Jews are not allowed...*Sharia Law is indeed at the basis of all legislation for Hamas and PA  - *You support it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
> The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.
> 
> Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.
Click to expand...

Are there nationality or religious specific rights anywhere else in the world?

How come the Muslims seem to think that they have the right to ALL of Palestine, if your saying is true?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Abandons Their Dead, as IDF Allows Them To Approach Fence | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press News Briefs | 14 Heshvan 5778 – November 3, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
> The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.
> 
> Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.
Click to expand...


That’s especially true in Gaza’istan. Arab-Moslem is, with virtual exclusivity, the only national/politico-religious ideology allowed.


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians” 

Jesus “King of the Jews”


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

There is an argument to be made that to be "Arab" one must be from one of the many Semitic people or tribal cultures under the Ottoman Empire prior to the post-War disintegration.  Britannica says that Arabs are a "diverse assortment of peoples (that) defies physical stereotyping."

"The pastoral desert nomad, the traditional ideal of Arab culture, makes up barely 5 percent of the modern Arab population."  < *SOURCE:* *Arab People:*  Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica >​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But one can legitimately ask:  What is meant by "Arab land?   "Imru' al-Qays ibn 'Amr - is believed to have been the first  "King of all the Arabs" (≈ 300 BC).  But those territories have changed hands many times.

The land under discussion was under the Sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic.  The people of that territory may have made real estate transactions in the Region; but the last Sovereign Government was Ottoman; until each area was released from the associated Mandate.  The Arabs of Palestinian were never part of an autonomous self-governing institution.  IN FACT, the Arabs in place today actually declined to participate in the development of such self-governing institutions; refusing to accept responsibility for the further development.  

When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today, and for the last half century.  The validity of the map is not about who published it, but about the nations that understand the consequences if they transgress those lines.  

Now I know that you do not recognize the validity of the Map No 3584 Rev. 2 UNITED NATIONS January 2004 (Peacekeeping Operations), but it depicts a very - very - good Approximation of the Border that Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon recognize.  In fact, the sovereign control of such is no more readily recognized (Internationally) than on Aeronautical Charts of the region.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I don't disagree with all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no question that since the very outset of the San Remo principles, the Arab Higher Committee had stated their objections to the Allied Powers; and in particular, to the selected Mandatory (UK).
> 
> Missed opportunities can best be evaluated in the annuals of history.  It is about the opportunity costs versus the cost at the end of a long-term outcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).  Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
> Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I have said before, the ownership of property, which is a civil law real estate matter, is completely different from:
> 
> •  Sovereignty and Independence
> •  The Protection and Preservation of a Culture​
> The idea of the "land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State," was not the specific intent at the time of the San Remo decision.  The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State."  The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.
> 
> By 1923, when the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation (several times) in the creation of an autonomous government --- to the development of the Muslim Mufti's active participation in antisemitic activities, --- to the Muslim Cleric that assembled the Palestinian Black Hand, the idea of an assimilated population (Jewish - Arab), peacefully living together, was becoming ever more distant possibility.
> Included in the 1930 White Paper on the development of self-governing institutions, the following observations was made:
> 
> 
> “that the time has now come when the important question of the establishment of a measure of self-government in Palestine must, in the interests of the community as a whole, be taken in hand without further delay.”
> But, there was no question that by the mid-to-late 1930's  _(sometimes called the Period of Arab Rebellion 1936-1939)_ The Supreme Arab Committee, _(becoming more and more popularly know as the Arab Higher Committee)_ heavily influenced by the Grand-Mufti of Jerusalem decreed that a called a general strike, which had started earlier --- (territorial wide work stoppage) --- should continue until *Jewish immigration* was suspended.  This was viewed as a form of coercion directed against the Palestine Administration; to attain what they could not achieve through diplomatic of political means.  Many outside and independent observers saw this as evidence that the Arab Palestinian was not yet able to stand-alone and an emerging government.
> 
> _As history has shown, every single regional country immediately surrounding Israel since the end of WWII, as been involved in self-destructive and violent overthrows of the original self-government established at the termination of their associated Mandate._​
> On the 1939 outbreak of war, the Jewish people were once again in peril.  And it appeared that the principle players in the Arab Community in Palestine, had sided with the Axis Powers.  This strained the Jewish-Arab relationship even more.  Following the conclusion of WWII, the animosity between the two cultures lead many to believe that a single-state solution would be unworkable and would destabilize almost immediately.
> 
> In the thumbnail view, this is what drove support for Jewish Nationalism independent of the Arab Community.  No one trusted the Arab Community in Palestine, to act as the guardian of the Jewish People.  No one trusted them then, no one trusts them now.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "what I think it says???"  You are so remarkably lost in this exchange that I almost pity you...you speak of 'rights' that are completely fictive, the DNA question merely resolves one of the central claims of Zionist polemics: that today's Jews are genetic relations to the ancient Jews, DNA proves not!  Yet you appear to dismiss the relevance of the DNA proof because it obliterates a long-standing Zionist lie.  But the real gem is your standard reference to native Americans...When the Christian Europeans were killing the native tribes there was no international law...no protections for the property rights of native peoples...however this was not the case in 1948...hence your analogy falls flat, as does your febrile bullshit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  DNA evidence has consistently proven that all Jews have Levantine origins (yes, including the Ashkenazi).  This particular study that you quote does not say what you think it says.  Why?  Because there are no Khazars to compare DNA with!
> 
> 2.  If DNA is the definitive determiner of human rights -- let's get ON with testing the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 3.  International law in 1948 upheld the already existing rights of the Jewish people to their historical and ancestral lands.
Click to expand...




TRY TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION:

1.  DNA evidence has consistently proven that all Jews have Levantine origins (yes, including the Ashkenazi).  This particular study that you quote does not say what you think it says.  Why?  Because there are no Khazars to compare DNA with!
THIS IS AN ABSURD, EVEN MORONIC CLAIM TO THE EXTENT THAT DNA ANALYSIS CLEARLY ISOLATES KHAZAR DNA, AND DETERMINES THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF JEWS ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS...CLEARLY YOU DON'T BEGIN TO COMPREHEND ELIAK'S EVIDENCE...LOL 


2.  If DNA is the definitive determiner of human rights -- let's get ON with testing the Arab Palestinians.
HERE YET AGAIN THE POINT ELUDES YOU: FALSE CLAIMS OF DIRECT LINEAGE WITH THE ANCIENT SEMITIC JEWS WERE PROVEN FALSE BY ELIAK'S DNA ANALYSIS...

3.  International law in 1948 upheld the already existing rights of the Jewish people to their historical and ancestral lands.[/QUOTE]

NO ACTUALLY IT DID NOT, BECAUSE NO SUCH LAW OR PUTATIVE RIGHT EXISTED...TRY PROVING THIS STATEMENT WITH A SHRED OF DOCUMENTATION...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU SPOUT...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 ...
> 
> 
> 
> Repeat after me....
> 
> Land ownership is not sovereignty.
> 
> Land ownership is not sovereignty.
> 
> Land ownership is not sovereignty.
> 
> (And P F Tinmore , you know better than to have labelled that post a "Winner".)
> 
> Also, those statistics do no accurately reflect the reality of land ownership at the time.
Click to expand...



Repeat after me: LAND OWNERSHIP EQUATES TO PROPERTY RIGHTS...THE SAME TACTIC THAT ISRAELI JEWS NOW AFFIRM THROUGH CRIMINAL CONFISCATION AND OCCUPATION...FOR THE DOZENTH TIME: YOUR ARGUMENT IS WITH LEADING PRE-STATE ZIONISTS WHO ALL CONCEDED THE ARAB RESIDENCY RIGHTS TO 'their lands'...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •   What Zionist offensive?"  What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> •  The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.”  The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).
> 
> §  Israeli 'War of Independence'
> 
> The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.  (SOURCE:  Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)
> 
> As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce.  (SOURCE:  Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.  (SOURCE:  “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​
> •  Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers  from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State.  I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming.  After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> •  You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support.  (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC:  A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)
> 
> *(SALIENT POINT)*
> 
> No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.
> 
> As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625).  It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.
> 
> 
> "Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
> who are struggling to survive.
> These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
> — Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.
> 
> First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
> Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
> Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...



The information posted is effortlessly confirmed by a wide number of sources including the Israelis...if you propose to dispute any or all of it I would encourage you to try...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •   What Zionist offensive?"  What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> •  The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.”  The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).
> 
> §  Israeli 'War of Independence'
> 
> The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.  (SOURCE:  Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)
> 
> As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce.  (SOURCE:  Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.  (SOURCE:  “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​
> •  Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers  from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State.  I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming.  After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> •  You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support.  (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC:  A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)
> 
> *(SALIENT POINT)*
> 
> No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.
> 
> As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625).  It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.
> 
> 
> "Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
> who are struggling to survive.
> These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
> — Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.
> 
> First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
> Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
> Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The information posted is effortlessly confirmed by a wide number of sources including the Israelis...if you propose to dispute any or all of it I would encourage you to try...
Click to expand...


You have spent a great deal of effort avoiding such a claimed effortless confirmation, as usual.


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians” 

“Rabbi” Jesus “King of Israel”


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!!  The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!!  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •   What Zionist offensive?"  What "attacking military campaign?"
> 
> •  The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.”  The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).
> 
> §  Israeli 'War of Independence'
> 
> The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.  (SOURCE:  Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)
> 
> As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce.  (SOURCE:  Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.  (SOURCE:  “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​
> •  Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers  from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State.  I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming.  After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> •  You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support.  (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC:  A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)
> 
> *(SALIENT POINT)*
> 
> No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.
> 
> As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625).  It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.
> 
> 
> "Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
> who are struggling to survive.
> These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
> — Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.
> 
> First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
> Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
> Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The information posted is effortlessly confirmed by a wide number of sources including the Israelis...if you propose to dispute any or all of it I would encourage you to try...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have spent a great deal of effort avoiding such a claimed effortless confirmation, as usual.
Click to expand...



Unfortunately I have no control over those in denial such as yourself...again for the sake of the demonstrably under-educated:  YOU ARGUMENT IS WITH BOTH PRE-STATE AND POST-STATE ZIONIST LUMINARIES...if you can dispute or call into question their collective authority in the matter be my guest...LMFAO


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.

"you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.

"Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.



Ventura77 said:


> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!


*(Bottom Line Up Front)*

In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,

The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.

The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.

*(COMMENT)*

There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.

The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.

The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Says ‘No’ to Info on Missing Israelis in Exchange for Rescue Access | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steve | 14 Heshvan 5778 – November 3, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




Once again you are completely in error...Israel does not have 'territorial integrity' to the obvious extent that the state is a criminal occupier...you play the same blame game that is consciously wound through the spools of Zionist propaganda...to refer to the ridiculously unbalanced resistance of the Palestinians as 'terrorism' and the actions of Israel as legitimate is essentially to flip the roles of victims and aggressors. The Jews continue to brazenly steal Palestinian lands and build networks of illegal Jewish settlements---thereby deliberately inciting violence and the laughable claim that 'we Jews are under attack by Arab terrorists'...this argument will invariably go back to the documented public statements of leading 20th century Zionists, who were quite frank in their intent and its predicted consequences...


----------



## Sixties Fan

What goes for UNESCO goes also for the UN


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Chief Shari'a Justice, Advisor To Palestinian President 'Abbas, Speaks At 'Indo-Arab Solidarity Day' In Hyderabad, India, Where Center 'In Memory Of Palestinian Martyrs' In City Is Announced; Other Dignitaries At Conference: Islamic State Was Created By The West; 'One Can Understand Why... Hitler Carried Out The Massacre Of Jews'


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, _et al,_

Yeah, this is something that most Commissioners for Human Rights ignore.  Rarely, if ever, do you see the Reports of Inquiry conducted as a Palestinian detention facility.



Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas Says ‘No’ to Info on Missing Israelis in Exchange for Rescue Access | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steve | 14 Heshvan 5778 – November 3, 2017 | JewishPress.com


*(COMMENT)*

Relative to the Arab Palestinians, this is par for the course.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement _(established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl)_ was one faction _(of several factions) _within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
> The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.
> 
> Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are there nationality or religious specific rights anywhere else in the world?
> 
> How come the Muslims seem to think that they have the right to ALL of Palestine, if your saying is true?
Click to expand...

Do the Palestinians have the right to all of Palestine?

I don't see that as a bizarre concept.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Contradicting Abbas' historical revision, just a day before, PA official TV broadcast an interview with the historian Abd Al-Ghani Salameh, who explained that in 1917 there was no Palestinian people.
During the broadcast, the host of the program asked: 
"There always was a historical struggle over Palestine, and many wanted to rule it. How did the aspirations to rule affect the Palestinian existence, the Palestinians' options, and the Palestinians' possibilities of development?"

Salameh responded:

"Before the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration) when the Ottoman rule ended, *Palestine's political borders as we know them today did not exist*, and* there was nothing called a Palestinian people* with a political identity as we know today, since Palestine's lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people's political identity. However, Palestine as a geographic area and the people dwelling within it enjoyed prosperity."
 [Official PA TV, Nov. 1, 2017]

In his article, Abbas continued to revise history claiming: 
"I was 13 years old at the time of our expulsion from Safed."
This contradicts Abbas' own words, when he admitted on Palestinian TV that the residents of Safed were not expelled but rather left Israel in 1948 on their own:

(full article online)

PA historian: In 1917 “there was nothing called a Palestinian people”  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today,


Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.

So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Now I know that you do not recognize the validity of the Map No 3584 Rev. 2 UNITED NATIONS January 2004 (Peacekeeping Operations),


The UN is not too sure about it either. Look at the disclaimer at the bottom.

The designations employed and the presentation of material on this map do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of the Secretariat of the United Nations concerning the *legal status of any country*, territory, city or area or of its authorities *or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers or boundaries.*​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Britannica says that Arabs are a "diverse assortment of peoples (that) defies physical stereotyping."


Particularly in Palestine considering its history. Almost reminds me of the US.

As I have always said: Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. It was also the center of world trade  for many centuries. Many people have come and gone over the centuries.

However, there was a core group of people, of many stripes, who stayed and put down roots. These are the Palestinians of today who have legitimate sovereignty in their land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Now I know that you do not recognize the validity of the Map No 3584 Rev. 2 UNITED NATIONS January 2004 (Peacekeeping Operations), but it depicts a very - very - good Approximation of the Border that Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon recognize. In fact, the sovereign control of such is no more readily recognized (Internationally) than on Aeronautical Charts of the region.


You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one. 

For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today,
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.
Click to expand...

Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .

Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today,
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
Click to expand...

Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
Click to expand...

Answer this Tinmore:

According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.

If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?

Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?

From Hebron in 1929?

From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?

From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?

From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?

The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?


What is your answer to that ?
Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today,
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
Click to expand...

Link, please.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britannica says that Arabs are a "diverse assortment of peoples (that) defies physical stereotyping."
> 
> 
> 
> Particularly in Palestine considering its history. Almost reminds me of the US.
> 
> As I have always said: Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. It was also the center of world trade  for many centuries. Many people have come and gone over the centuries.
> 
> However, there was a core group of people, of many stripes, who stayed and put down roots. These are the Palestinians of today who have legitimate sovereignty in their land.
Click to expand...


Another of your utterly unsupported and unsupportable claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Answer this Tinmore:
> 
> According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.
> 
> If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?
> 
> Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?
> 
> From Hebron in 1929?
> 
> From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?
> 
> From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?
> 
> From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?
> 
> The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
> Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
> Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
> Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?
> 
> 
> What is your answer to that ?
> Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?
Click to expand...

You would have to ask all of those other countries. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

As for what happened in Palestine, the Zionist colonial project "poisoned the well" for non Zionist Jews.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Answer this Tinmore:
> 
> According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.
> 
> If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?
> 
> Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?
> 
> From Hebron in 1929?
> 
> From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?
> 
> From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?
> 
> From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?
> 
> The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
> Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
> Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
> Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?
> 
> 
> What is your answer to that ?
> Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would have to ask all of those other countries. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> As for what happened in Palestine, the Zionist colonial project "poisoned the well" for non Zionist Jews.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories really aren’t helpful.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Answer this Tinmore:
> 
> According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.
> 
> If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?
> 
> Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?
> 
> From Hebron in 1929?
> 
> From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?
> 
> From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?
> 
> From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?
> 
> The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
> Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
> Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
> Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?
> 
> 
> What is your answer to that ?
> Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would have to ask all of those other countries. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> As for what happened in Palestine, the Zionist colonial project "poisoned the well" for non Zionist Jews.
Click to expand...

Are you telling me that the Arabs could not tell the European Jews, nearly arrived to Palestine, from the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews who had also been there for a long time?

How can that be when I am usually reading How European the Zionist Jews from Europe look?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

Yeah yeah yeah,  What particular crime by statute is IIsrael in violation?



Ventura77 said:


> Once again you are completely in error...Israel does not have 'territorial integrity' to the obvious extent that the state is a criminal occupier...


*(COMMENT)*

If Israel has no "territorial Integrity," _(which would be great --- but damn incorrect)_ then that is all the better.  I F Israel is contained holey with the territory formerly under the Mandate,  T H E N the conflict between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians takes on the complexion of a *NIAC* (Civil War) which by definition is a "Domestic Issues" _(contained entirely in one jurisdiction)._



			
				 "Article 2(7) UN Charter" said:
			
		

> Nothing contained in the *present Charter* shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially *within the domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.


But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:

*√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")




​√  Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)



​※  Special Note of applicability:  *Article V:  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements*
*Transitional period and permanent status negotiations:*
1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.

2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people's representatives.

3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: *Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation* with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest.

4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or pre-empted by agreements reached for the interim period.​


Ventura77 said:


> you play the same blame game that is consciously wound through the spools of Zionist propaganda...to refer to the ridiculously unbalanced resistance of the Palestinians as 'terrorism' and the actions of Israel as legitimate is essentially to flip the roles of victims and aggressors.


*(COMMENT)*

Balanced -- Unbalanced makes no difference.  Tactically speaking, I don't know what that means.  What I do know is that since the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) historically there has been a escalating pattern of antisocial and criminal behavior perpetrated by the Palestinians --- premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against soft targets by subnational groups or by small cells of covert operators that engage in indiscriminate rocket launchings, psychopathic attacks on the defenseless, hijackings and skyjackings, kidnappings and murders, bombings, arson, and --- with growth in the expanding menu of attack options..

_Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) Jihadist, Fedayeen Operators, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamist, and other Asymmetric fighters out to commit a level of violence in a coercive manner to achieve objectives that they were unable to achieve through peaceful means._

Produce widesrpead fear
Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media
Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive
Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group
Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens
Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country's economy and support of the government in power
Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions
Free prisoners
Satisfy vengeance



Ventura77 said:


> The Jews continue to brazenly steal Palestinian lands and build networks of illegal Jewish settlements---thereby deliberately inciting violence and the laughable claim that 'we Jews are under attack by Arab terrorists'...this argument will invariably go back to the documented public statements of leading 20th century Zionists, who were quite frank in their intent and its predicted consequences...


*(COMMENT)*

Are you absolutely sure that Israel is not operating withing the framework of the agreement.  And if Israel was coloring outside the lines, would it have not been in the best interest of the HoAP to work through the Dispute Resolution Process?  But the record show that the PLO did not bring this to the Dispute Process even once in all this time.
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...d91c90a304f06ea4052564e60048c213?OpenDocument
*Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement* on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip

Chapter 2, Article XI 3c, Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip:  "Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.

Chapter 2, Article XII 5:  " For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip, as shown on attached map No. 2."​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today,
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
Click to expand...

The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague  than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Answer this Tinmore:
> 
> According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.
> 
> If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?
> 
> Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?
> 
> From Hebron in 1929?
> 
> From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?
> 
> From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?
> 
> From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?
> 
> The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
> Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
> Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
> Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?
> 
> 
> What is your answer to that ?
> Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would have to ask all of those other countries. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> As for what happened in Palestine, the Zionist colonial project "poisoned the well" for non Zionist Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling me that the Arabs could not tell the European Jews, nearly arrived to Palestine, from the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews who had also been there for a long time?
> 
> How can that be when I am usually reading How European the Zionist Jews from Europe look?
Click to expand...

Britain is the one who lumped all Jews together.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today,
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...


You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I try not to paint with broad brush strokes.  Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.
> 
> "you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"​I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point:  Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence.  And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.
> 
> "Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​
> The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations  in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.
> 
> *(Bottom Line Up Front)*
> 
> In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,
> 
> The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.
> 
> The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force _*(including that proscribed by law)*_ has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically.   I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true.  But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.
> 
> The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights *(including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity)*, privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.
> 
> The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others.  No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts.  The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Answer this Tinmore:
> 
> According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.
> 
> If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?
> 
> Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?
> 
> From Hebron in 1929?
> 
> From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?
> 
> From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?
> 
> From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?
> 
> The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
> Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
> Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
> Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?
> 
> 
> What is your answer to that ?
> Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would have to ask all of those other countries. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> As for what happened in Palestine, the Zionist colonial project "poisoned the well" for non Zionist Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling me that the Arabs could not tell the European Jews, nearly arrived to Palestine, from the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews who had also been there for a long time?
> 
> How can that be when I am usually reading How European the Zionist Jews from Europe look?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain is the one who lumped all Jews together.
Click to expand...

Endless infantile answers.  Why is that?

Europeans look like Europeans.
Mizrahi look like Mizrahi.
Sepharadic look like Sepharadic.
No European Jews in Iraq in 1941 when Palestinian leader went to Baghdad and started riots which killed more then 200 Jews.

Are you sure that the British are the ones responsible for it, or just maybe: at that time the Arabs of the region of Palestine knew that the Jews of Europe were indigenous of the land and were simply returning to it, even before the Mandate for Palestine post WWI?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that there is no border around Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> So the propaganda term of "into Israel" has a strange meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
Click to expand...

Because Zionists are stupid and require a lot of repetition.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow,  I don't even know where to start with this one.
> 
> For sure it is one of your slime the Palestinians posts.
> 
> 
> 
> Answer this Tinmore:
> 
> According to the Palestinian Arab side Zionist Jews were only the ones who came from Europe.
> 
> If that is what the Palestinian Arabs knew about the Zionists which was not acceptable to them as a foreign colonizing group, then why weren't Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in Palestine, and in the new Arab countries let be?
> 
> Why were all the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews in TransJordan attacked, murdered or expelled from TranJordan in 1925?
> 
> From Hebron in 1929?
> 
> From Palestine between 1936 and 1939?
> 
> From Iraq, the Farhoud, in 1941 by the Palestinian Arab leader, Husseini?
> 
> From all of Judea, Samaria, including the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948?
> 
> The converted Jews, according to the Arabs, were the European ones.
> Why attack, murder or expel all other Jews?
> Why go into another country, Iraq, and start riots against non European Jews over there?
> Why have Arab Palestinians never differentiated the Jews who came from Europe from the Mizrahi or Sepharadic Jews?
> 
> 
> What is your answer to that ?
> Do any of your sources say anything about it?  One word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would have to ask all of those other countries. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> As for what happened in Palestine, the Zionist colonial project "poisoned the well" for non Zionist Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling me that the Arabs could not tell the European Jews, nearly arrived to Palestine, from the Mizrahi and Sepharadic Jews who had also been there for a long time?
> 
> How can that be when I am usually reading How European the Zionist Jews from Europe look?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain is the one who lumped all Jews together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Endless infantile answers.  Why is that?
> 
> Europeans look like Europeans.
> Mizrahi look like Mizrahi.
> Sepharadic look like Sepharadic.
> No European Jews in Iraq in 1941 when Palestinian leader went to Baghdad and started riots which killed more then 200 Jews.
> 
> Are you sure that the British are the ones responsible for it, or just maybe: at that time the Arabs of the region of Palestine knew that the Jews of Europe were indigenous of the land and were simply returning to it, even before the Mandate for Palestine post WWI?
Click to expand...

Interesting speculation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because Zionists are stupid and require a lot of repetition.
Click to expand...


Indeed, that was as pointless as so much of your cutting and pasting.

Indeed, now that you have had a chance to review your childish outburst, perhaps you could address my earlier comment: you have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because Zionists are stupid and require a lot of repetition.
Click to expand...


Zionists have won 5 Nobel Prizes in science, among the most prodigious

Muslims have won none


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because Zionists are stupid and require a lot of repetition.
Click to expand...


Funny: You can’t use a computer without ingenious Zionist technology . Muslims produce nothing 

Intel: “What Israel has done for computing & the world is amazing!” Let a billion chips bloom: Intel Israel celebrates 40 years


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both Hamas and Israel know exactly where the border is .
> 
> Both Hamas and Egypt know where their border is as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because Zionists are stupid and require a lot of repetition.
Click to expand...


Funny: You couldn’t function without ingenious Zionist innovation. Muslims create nothing

Google Chairman: Israeli tech second only to Silicon Valley Google chief says Israeli tech second only to Silicon Valley


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> 
> 
> Link, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because Zionists are stupid and require a lot of repetition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, that was as pointless as so much of your cutting and pasting.
> 
> Indeed, now that you have had a chance to review your childish outburst, perhaps you could address my earlier comment: you have cut and pasted this many times before but are unable to identify why you are cutting and pasting it or why you believe it has any relevance.
Click to expand...

My post was clear. Too bad it went over your head.


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

Ancient Jewish shekel in Israel Silver shekel of the Second Jewish Revolt from Rome - Google Arts & Culture


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.



There was an international border between the Ottoman Empire/Turkey and Egypt at that time.  There is now an international border between Israel and Egypt.  There has never been an international border between "Gaza" and Egypt.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> THIS IS AN ABSURD, EVEN MORONIC CLAIM TO THE EXTENT THAT DNA ANALYSIS CLEARLY ISOLATES KHAZAR DNA, AND DETERMINES THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF JEWS ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS...CLEARLY YOU DON'T BEGIN TO COMPREHEND ELIAK'S EVIDENCE...LOL
> 
> 
> 2.  HERE YET AGAIN THE POINT ELUDES YOU: FALSE CLAIMS OF DIRECT LINEAGE WITH THE ANCIENT SEMITIC JEWS WERE PROVEN FALSE BY ELIAK'S DNA ANALYSIS...
> 
> 3.  NO ACTUALLY IT DID NOT, BECAUSE NO SUCH LAW OR PUTATIVE RIGHT EXISTED...TRY PROVING THIS STATEMENT WITH A SHRED OF DOCUMENTATION...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU SPOUT...



The screaming doesn't do anything to improve your theories , nor does it suddenly turn lies into truths.

Eliak could not have "isolated" Khazar DNA because there is no group of people surviving today who can be definitively linked to the Khazars of a thousand years ago.  And the study does not claim nor prove that the "vast majority" of Ashkenazis are descended from Khazars.  You are presenting false information. 

IF, however, you wish to use DNA as the determining factor for rights -- then it is incumbent upon you to apply that equally to ALL peoples who wish to have rights.  And that means we need to start testing the Arab Palestinians to see if they have enough of the "correct" DNA to have rights to the land.  If you are going to suggest criteria for rights -- then you need to apply it equally.  

No such law or right exists?  For self-determination of a people?  Really?  So, the Arab Palestinians have no such right either.  Neither do the Catalans.  Nor the First Nations.  Nor any other minority.  Where does THAT leave us in terms a solution?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Do the Palestinians have the right to all of Palestine?
> 
> I don't see that as a bizarre concept.



Its an overly simplistic concept.  Are you trying to argue that the entire area MUST NOT be divided.  Ever.  

That is rather like saying that Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia MUST NOT be divided.  Ooops.

And Palestine was divided.  Why are the Palestinians not freaking out about Jordan's occupation of "their" land?  I mean, dear lord, they took a huge section of Palestine and even changed the name of it!  The horror!


----------



## abi

P F Tinmore said:


> Do the Palestinians have the right to all of Palestine?
> 
> I don't see that as a bizarre concept.


I don't either. How much more obvious can it be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there is an international border between Gaza and Egypt that was established in 1906.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was an international border between the Ottoman Empire/Turkey and Egypt at that time.  There is now an international border between Israel and Egypt.  There has never been an international border between "Gaza" and Egypt.
Click to expand...

It is only an international border because Gaza is part of Palestine. Palestine has an international border with Egypt.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> And Palestine was divided. Why are the Palestinians not freaking out about Jordan's occupation of "their" land?


Jordan did not kick them out of their land like Israel did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Its an overly simplistic concept. Are you trying to argue that the entire area MUST NOT be divided. Ever.


Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestine was divided. Why are the Palestinians not freaking out about Jordan's occupation of "their" land?
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan did not kick them out of their land like Israel did.
Click to expand...


Not my point.  You deliberately side-stepped my point.  Can Palestine be divided?  Yes or no?  If it can be divided once with the removal of Jordan (and the kicking out of all Jews from that section as well as Gaza, the WB and the Temple Mount) -- then *why can't it be divided again*?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestine was divided. Why are the Palestinians not freaking out about Jordan's occupation of "their" land?
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan did not kick them out of their land like Israel did.
Click to expand...

No.....the Hashemites kicked the Jews out of TransJordan as Mohammad had done with them in the 7th century in Arabia.
No Jews are allowed to live in Arabia.  That is one thing.
No Jews allowed to live on their own ancient homeland?  That is theft.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.



THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestine was divided. Why are the Palestinians not freaking out about Jordan's occupation of "their" land?
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan did not kick them out of their land like Israel did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.....the Hashemites kicked the Jews out of TransJordan as Mohammad had done with them in the 7th century in Arabia.
> No Jews are allowed to live in Arabia.  That is one thing.
> No Jews allowed to live on their own ancient homeland?  That is theft.
Click to expand...

Unrelated to Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
Click to expand...

Oslo is not a valid treaty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
Click to expand...


Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Palestinians have the right to all of Palestine?
> 
> I don't see that as a bizarre concept.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't either. How much more obvious can it be?
Click to expand...


Neither is it a bizarre concept for the Jewish people to have rights to their historical, ancestral and religious homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
Click to expand...

You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> Neither is it a bizarre concept for the Jewish people to have rights to their historical, ancestral and religious homeland.


Is it a bizarre concept for the zionist people to have rights to Palestine?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Shusha said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
Click to expand...


Can Palestine sign a treaty with Israel?  Yes or no?  Is it possible for Palestine to enter into an international agreement with another sovereign State?  Yes or no?

Can that treaty delineate borders between their two States?  Yes or no?


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## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Shusha said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
Click to expand...


You need to read a history book. Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel, later, Britain’s name for the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood

Palestine is not Arab in origin In fact, there’s no letter p in Arabic


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is it a bizarre concept for the Jewish people to have rights to their historical, ancestral and religious homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it a bizarre concept for the zionist people to have rights to Palestine?
Click to expand...


Forget about "zionists" for the moment.  The Jewish people.  Do they or do they not have the rights to self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical homeland?  Yes or no?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
Click to expand...


Eminent Muslim scholar acknowledges palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> Forget about "zionists" for the moment. The Jewish people. Do they or do they not have the rights to self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical homeland? Yes or no?


That's your problem. You can't forget about that. And furthermore, for the umpteenth time, most Jews don't live in Israel, over 1/4 that do wish to leave, but can't, and Jewish people have been speaking out against Israel since before her creation and continue to up til this very day.

Please stop speaking for all of us. Many Jews find the zionists the greatest threat to Judaism. This has been stated since Israel was a thought and include Rabbinical opinions from multiple sects.


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> That's your problem. You can't forget about that.



Sure you can.  The Jewish people are a people.  They originated in the territory in question.  That is their ancestral and historical homeland.  Do you dispute this?

If you want, take away all the people that you don't think are "real" Jews and just talk about the real ones.  

Do the "real" Jews have a right to self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical homeland?  Its a real simple yes or no question.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
Click to expand...


Palestine was a name imposed on Jews’ land by Roman occupiers, about 2000 years ago, reflecting its ancient Jewish heritage and history


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
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> Shusha said:
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> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read a history book. Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel, later, Britain’s name for the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
> 
> Palestine is not Arab in origin In fact, there’s no letter p in Arabic
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. BS Israeli talking points.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read a history book. Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel, later, Britain’s name for the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
> 
> Palestine is not Arab in origin In fact, there’s no letter p in Arabic
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you always lose this argument, yet here you are, losing again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Shusha said:
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> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
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> Shusha said:
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> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless it is part of a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can Palestine sign a treaty with Israel?  Yes or no?  Is it possible for Palestine to enter into an international agreement with another sovereign State?  Yes or no?
> 
> Can that treaty delineate borders between their two States?  Yes or no?
Click to expand...

Good questions. Why don't you look that up and report what you find?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Good questions. Why don't you look that up and report what you find?



Got nothing, huh?

Come on.  The BASIS for international law is the idea treaties between States.  Surely you are not going to argue that this does not apply to "Palestine"?


----------



## Hollie

Somewhere in Fatah’istan there a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit on the (soon to be known as the former) Abd “_Dead Man Walking_” Al-Ghani Salameh,




*PA historian: In 1917 “there was nothing called a Palestinian people”  - PMW Bulletins

PA historian: In 1917
 "there was nothing called a Palestinian people" *

Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
To mark the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority published an op-ed in the British Guardian newspaper. After castigating Lord Balfour for promising "a land that was not his to promise" he went on to describe the Palestinian people as "a proud nation with a rich heritage of ancient civilisations, and the cradle of the Abrahamic faiths."

Contradicting Abbas' historical revision, just a day before, PA official TV broadcast an interview with the historian Abd Al-Ghani Salameh, who explained that in 1917 there was no Palestinian people.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Shusha said:
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read a history book. Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel, later, Britain’s name for the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
> 
> Palestine is not Arab in origin In fact, there’s no letter p in Arabic
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Eminent Muslim scholar, Encyclopedia of Islam: Palestine, Roman name imposed on Jews’ land


----------



## Shusha

Joel, can you PLEASE come up with some original content beyond the same over-and-over again posting of the same line?  I'm begging you, son.  

The conflict is SO much deeper and more complex than this.  Give it some respect.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Paul:  Oh this is so unfair.  You have three question here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q#1:  Can Palestine sign a treaty with Israel?  Yes or no?
> 
> Q#2:  Is it possible for Palestine to enter into an international agreement with another sovereign State?  Yes or no?
> 
> Q#3:  Can that treaty delineate borders between their two States?  Yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> Good questions. Why don't you look that up and report what you find?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I would like to answer these in reverse order.  But first, what is a Treaty?

Reference:  Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties  23 May 1969

√  ANS X:  For the purposes of the present Convention:

•  “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;  (Page #3 of the Convention

Are the Oslo Accords a Treaty?  Yes  They are international agreements concluded between States.​√  ANS to Q#3:  Can that treaty delineate borders between their two States?  Yes

•  OH, Hell Yes.  As an example: See the 
TO COMPLETE THE INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA
AND TO MAINTAIN THE DEMARCATION OF THAT BOUNDARY​
√  ANS to Q#2:  Is it possible for Palestine to enter into an international agreement with another sovereign State?  Yes

•  See the PLO --- State of Palestine UN Web Page that list all the various treaties and agreement it has already signed without objection.​
√  ANS to Q#1:  Can Palestine sign a treaty with Israel?  YES!

•  In the Case of Palestine and Israel, any agreement they sign must be free of any coercion.  In the example of the OSLO Accords, several witnesses signed which can verify that the agreement was not coerced:

Bjørn Tore GODAL  The Kingdom of Norway
Andrei V. KOZYREV  The Russian Federation
Amre MOUSSA  The Arab Republic of Egypt
Hussein IBN TALAL  The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
Felipe GONZALEZ  The European Union

I thought that this warranted a little more of an explanation.  Remember, at the conclusion of wars and the end of hostilities, the defeated parties are most often at a disadvantage.  So, I thought that this passage from the ICRC Expert Meeting on the Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory (2012).​
Taking the opportunity to comment on this very point, a large majority of the experts stressed that IHL and occupation law in particular did not constitute a self-contained regime and did not provide any criteria for evaluating consent. The experts said that the issue of consent should be interpreted in the light of current public international law, in particular by reference to the law of treaties, discarding a specific interpretation of the notion of consent for the purposes of occupation law. In this regard, it was noted that *Article 52 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties states that a treaty was void only when a State had been coerced by the threat or use of force in violation of the principles of international law* embodied in the UN Charter. Consequently, not every pressure or every threat or use of force would induce coerced consent. In others words, the threat or use of force in accordance with the UN Charter, resulting in a State consenting to the presence of foreign forces, could not lead to the application of occupation law.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Shusha said:
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> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!  (You mean like Oslo?)  Can we get ON with it then?
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo is not a valid treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Odd little catch-22 you have set up there.  Palestine can be divided as long as there is a treaty which Palestine agrees to.  But any treaty which Palestine agrees to is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on occupation and treaty law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read a history book. Palestine was a Roman name for ancient Israel, later, Britain’s name for the British Mandate which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
> 
> Palestine is not Arab in origin In fact, there’s no letter p in Arabic
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


This eminent historian does not refer to “palestine” because it was an illegitimate Roman name for the indigenous Jews’ land


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and *governed by international law*, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation; (Page #3 of the Convention


That is the rub with Oslo. It was devoid of any reference to international law. If an agreement calls for or allows the violation of international law, it is outside the legitimate framework of a valid agreement.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and *governed by international law*, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation; (Page #3 of the Convention
> 
> 
> 
> That is the rub with Oslo. It was devoid of any reference to international law. If an agreement calls for or allows the violation of international law, it is outside the legitimate framework of a valid agreement.
Click to expand...


Sure. An agreement which contracts a murder in exchange for compensation is not a valid contract and can not be upheld in law because the contract itself calls for a violation of law. I hear what you are saying.

BUT

What international law is violated in Oslo?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians? Nobody really knows...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JoelT1

Arabs laugh: When were there palestinians?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh come on.  What are you trying to say here?

That security measures which prevent loss of life are illegal or immoral?  Seriously?


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians” 

History of the Jewish People The Hebrew Bible | The Story of the Jews | PBS


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, this is something that most Commissioners for Human Rights ignore.  Rarely, if ever, do you see the Reports of Inquiry conducted as a Palestinian detention facility.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Says ‘No’ to Info on Missing Israelis in Exchange for Rescue Access | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steve | 14 Heshvan 5778 – November 3, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Relative to the Arab Palestinians, this is par for the course.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Gotta tell ya...there are very few examples that capture excruciating irony more than two Israeli defenders slandering the Palestinians...this is kind of like the Gestapo whining about poor table manners...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS IS AN ABSURD, EVEN MORONIC CLAIM TO THE EXTENT THAT DNA ANALYSIS CLEARLY ISOLATES KHAZAR DNA, AND DETERMINES THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF JEWS ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS...CLEARLY YOU DON'T BEGIN TO COMPREHEND ELIAK'S EVIDENCE...LOL
> 
> 
> 2.  HERE YET AGAIN THE POINT ELUDES YOU: FALSE CLAIMS OF DIRECT LINEAGE WITH THE ANCIENT SEMITIC JEWS WERE PROVEN FALSE BY ELIAK'S DNA ANALYSIS...
> 
> 3.  NO ACTUALLY IT DID NOT, BECAUSE NO SUCH LAW OR PUTATIVE RIGHT EXISTED...TRY PROVING THIS STATEMENT WITH A SHRED OF DOCUMENTATION...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU SPOUT...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The screaming doesn't do anything to improve your theories , nor does it suddenly turn lies into truths.
> 
> Eliak could not have "isolated" Khazar DNA because there is no group of people surviving today who can be definitively linked to the Khazars of a thousand years ago.  And the study does not claim nor prove that the "vast majority" of Ashkenazis are descended from Khazars.  You are presenting false information.
> 
> IF, however, you wish to use DNA as the determining factor for rights -- then it is incumbent upon you to apply that equally to ALL peoples who wish to have rights.  And that means we need to start testing the Arab Palestinians to see if they have enough of the "correct" DNA to have rights to the land.  If you are going to suggest criteria for rights -- then you need to apply it equally.
> 
> No such law or right exists?  For self-determination of a people?  Really?  So, the Arab Palestinians have no such right either.  Neither do the Catalans.  Nor the First Nations.  Nor any other minority.  Where does THAT leave us in terms a solution?
Click to expand...



Pray tell us how someone can 'scream' on a inaudible venue???  Who would know more about 'lies' than you dear?  Please disprove Elhaik's evidence Shush...the argument you post is so ridiculously stupid that it begs raucous laughter...instead of saying "You are presenting false information."  PROVE IT.  The Arab/Palestinians have rights derived from their tenure in Palestine, does this info penetrate that dense grey matter yet?  What do you imagine the UN charter refers to when it swears fealty to the "property right of native peoples????"  The Arab property right derive from tenure...by contrast the fictive claims of the Zio-trash have zero legal validity...any questions?


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah yeah yeah,  What particular crime by statute is IIsrael in violation?
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again you are completely in error...Israel does not have 'territorial integrity' to the obvious extent that the state is a criminal occupier...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If Israel has no "territorial Integrity," _(which would be great --- but damn incorrect)_ then that is all the better.  I F Israel is contained holey with the territory formerly under the Mandate,  T H E N the conflict between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians takes on the complexion of a *NIAC* (Civil War) which by definition is a "Domestic Issues" _(contained entirely in one jurisdiction)._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Article 2(7) UN Charter" said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing contained in the *present Charter* shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially *within the domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> View attachment 158472​√  Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> View attachment 158476​※  Special Note of applicability:  *Article V:  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements*
> *Transitional period and permanent status negotiations:*
> 1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
> 
> 2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people's representatives.
> 
> 3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: *Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation* with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest.
> 
> 4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or pre-empted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you play the same blame game that is consciously wound through the spools of Zionist propaganda...to refer to the ridiculously unbalanced resistance of the Palestinians as 'terrorism' and the actions of Israel as legitimate is essentially to flip the roles of victims and aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Balanced -- Unbalanced makes no difference.  Tactically speaking, I don't know what that means.  What I do know is that since the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) historically there has been a escalating pattern of antisocial and criminal behavior perpetrated by the Palestinians --- premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against soft targets by subnational groups or by small cells of covert operators that engage in indiscriminate rocket launchings, psychopathic attacks on the defenseless, hijackings and skyjackings, kidnappings and murders, bombings, arson, and --- with growth in the expanding menu of attack options..
> 
> _Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) Jihadist, Fedayeen Operators, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamist, and other Asymmetric fighters out to commit a level of violence in a coercive manner to achieve objectives that they were unable to achieve through peaceful means._
> 
> Produce widesrpead fear
> Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media
> Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive
> Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group
> Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens
> Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country's economy and support of the government in power
> Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions
> Free prisoners
> Satisfy vengeance
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews continue to brazenly steal Palestinian lands and build networks of illegal Jewish settlements---thereby deliberately inciting violence and the laughable claim that 'we Jews are under attack by Arab terrorists'...this argument will invariably go back to the documented public statements of leading 20th century Zionists, who were quite frank in their intent and its predicted consequences...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you absolutely sure that Israel is not operating withing the framework of the agreement.  And if Israel was coloring outside the lines, would it have not been in the best interest of the HoAP to work through the Dispute Resolution Process?  But the record show that the PLO did not bring this to the Dispute Process even once in all this time.
> *Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement* on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
> 
> Chapter 2, Article XI 3c, Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip:  "Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.
> 
> Chapter 2, Article XII 5:  " For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip, as shown on attached map No. 2."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




Rocky...I keep repeating the same stipulations which obliterate your circular argument...please familiarize yourself with the public statements of David Ben Gurion...Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Jabotinsky...etc


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Please disprove Elhaik's evidence Shush...the argument you post is so ridiculously stupid that it begs raucous laughter...instead of saying "You are presenting false information."  PROVE IT.




Okay.  You DO know what DNA and genome study is, don't you?  You know that the only thing it can possibly do is compare one population to another and see what commonalities they have, right?  And you know that in order to compare groups of people -- there needs to be, well, you know, groups to compare.  The claim you are supporting says that there has been a comparison of Ashkenazi Jews to Khazars and they are found to be similar.  Here's the problem -- THERE ARE NO KHAZARS TO COMPARE TO.  There is no way to make a comparison because there are no surviving, definitive group of Khazars with which to make a comparison.  Therefore any correlation built between the Ashkenazi Jews and the Khazars is unfounded.  



> The Arab/Palestinians have rights derived from their tenure in Palestine, does this info penetrate that dense grey matter yet?


Not arguing that.  I consistently support the rights of Arab Palestinians due to their long tenure in the territory.  




> ...by contrast the fictive claims of the Zio-trash have zero legal validity...


The Jewish people also have a long tenure in the territory.  Nearly four thousand years worth.  Longer, in point of fact, than the Arabs.  So why wouldn't the Jewish people ALSO have rights?  

Is it because they were forcibly removed?  Is it because there are no "real" Jews left?  Why would the Jewish people not ALSO have rights?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

And again, your explanation is a stream of names that relate to a conflict a half century ago.  A stream of names with no context. 



Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah yeah yeah,  What particular crime by statute is IIsrael in violation?
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again you are completely in error...Israel does not have 'territorial integrity' to the obvious extent that the state is a criminal occupier...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If Israel has no "territorial Integrity," _(which would be great --- but damn incorrect)_ then that is all the better.  I F Israel is contained holey with the territory formerly under the Mandate,  T H E N the conflict between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians takes on the complexion of a *NIAC* (Civil War) which by definition is a "Domestic Issues" _(contained entirely in one jurisdiction)._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Article 2(7) UN Charter" said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing contained in the *present Charter* shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially *within the domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> View attachment 158472​√  Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> View attachment 158476​※  Special Note of applicability:  *Article V:  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements*
> *Transitional period and permanent status negotiations:*
> 1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
> 
> 2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people's representatives.
> 
> 3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: *Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation* with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest.
> 
> 4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or pre-empted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you play the same blame game that is consciously wound through the spools of Zionist propaganda...to refer to the ridiculously unbalanced resistance of the Palestinians as 'terrorism' and the actions of Israel as legitimate is essentially to flip the roles of victims and aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Balanced -- Unbalanced makes no difference.  Tactically speaking, I don't know what that means.  What I do know is that since the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) historically there has been a escalating pattern of antisocial and criminal behavior perpetrated by the Palestinians --- premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against soft targets by subnational groups or by small cells of covert operators that engage in indiscriminate rocket launchings, psychopathic attacks on the defenseless, hijackings and skyjackings, kidnappings and murders, bombings, arson, and --- with growth in the expanding menu of attack options..
> 
> _Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) Jihadist, Fedayeen Operators, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamist, and other Asymmetric fighters out to commit a level of violence in a coercive manner to achieve objectives that they were unable to achieve through peaceful means._
> 
> Produce widesrpead fear
> Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media
> Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive
> Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group
> Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens
> Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country's economy and support of the government in power
> Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions
> Free prisoners
> Satisfy vengeance
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews continue to brazenly steal Palestinian lands and build networks of illegal Jewish settlements---thereby deliberately inciting violence and the laughable claim that 'we Jews are under attack by Arab terrorists'...this argument will invariably go back to the documented public statements of leading 20th century Zionists, who were quite frank in their intent and its predicted consequences...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you absolutely sure that Israel is not operating withing the framework of the agreement.  And if Israel was coloring outside the lines, would it have not been in the best interest of the HoAP to work through the Dispute Resolution Process?  But the record show that the PLO did not bring this to the Dispute Process even once in all this time.
> *Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement* on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
> 
> Chapter 2, Article XI 3c, Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip:  "Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.
> 
> Chapter 2, Article XII 5:  " For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip, as shown on attached map No. 2."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rocky...I keep repeating the same stipulations which obliterate your circular argument...please familiarize yourself with the public statements of David Ben Gurion...Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Jabotinsky...etc
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Public Statements of Men not a single one of which is still alive and not a single one of which has been in public office or made an significant public statement in ≈ three decades or more.  Yes, anyone can go to *www.brainyquote.com* and get old political quotes.  But old political quotes are not the same as current policy.

•  Ze'ev Jabotinsky  Lived: Oct 18, 1880 - Aug 04, 1940 (age 59) ---------- DIED 77 Years Ago
• Chaim Azriel Weizmann  Lived: Nov 27, 1874 - Nov 09, 1952 (age 77) - DIED 65 Years Ago
• David Ben-Gurion   Lived: Oct 16, 1886 - Dec 01, 1973 (age 87)  -------- DIED 44 Years Ago
• Moshe Dayan  Lived: May 20, 1915 - Oct 16, 1981 (age 66) -------------- DIED 36 Years Ago
• Menachem Begin  Lived: Aug 16, 1913 - Mar 09, 1992 (age 78) --------- DIED 25 Years Ago
• Yitzhak Rabin  Lived: Mar 01, 1922 - Nov 04, 1995 (age 73) -------------- DIED 22 Years Ago​Not a single one of these leaders represents today's 21st Century Strategic Approach to the basic issues that persist as an item for permanent negotiation status.

The one fragment of the 21st Century baseline of today is paraphrased in the press article ‘We Do Not Apologize for Killing Terrorists’ By JNi.Media – October 31, 2017:
"We must not apologize for our success in eliminating terrorists,” Bennett Tweeted, 
“These are terrorists who were digging a hellish tunnel into Israeli territory, 
designed to kill Israeli women and children.”
-----------------------------------------------------------  _Minister of Education *Naftali Bennett*_ ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)


4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
---------------------
(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
Click to expand...


When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?


----------



## Hollie

There’s always a touch of irony when various components of* Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc. (PA, PLO, Fatah, Islamic Gee-had, etc.), *work themselves into a froth defending acts of Islamic terrorism.
*
PA accuses Israel of using "poisonous gas" while exploding terror tunnel - PMW Bulletins*


*PA accuses Israel of using "poisonous gas" 
while exploding terror tunnel*

Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch

Yesterday, Israel carried out a controlled explosion to destroy an attack tunnel dug by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group that started in the Gazan city of Khan Younis and crossed into Israeli territory. 
A member of Islamic Jihad, Khaled Al-Batsh, explained [in Al-Dustour (Jordanian newspaper), Oct. 31, 2017] that the tunnel that Israel attacked "was intended for freeing prisoners from the Israeli occupation prisons." Al-Batsh was implying that the purpose of the tunnel was to facilitate the entry of Islamic Jihad terrorists into Israel, to kidnap Israelis who would then be used as hostages to force Israel to release prisoners.   
At least seven members of the Islamic Jihad and Hamas terror organizations, including senior terrorist commanders, were killed in the explosion of the tunnel. 

Instead of condemning the digging of the terror tunnel, Mahmoud Abbas's PA and Fatah chose to accuse Israel of using "poisonous gas" in breach of International law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There’s always a touch of irony when various components of* Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc. (PA, PLO, Fatah, Islamic Gee-had, etc.), *work themselves into a froth defending acts of Islamic terrorism.
> *
> PA accuses Israel of using "poisonous gas" while exploding terror tunnel - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> 
> *PA accuses Israel of using "poisonous gas"
> while exploding terror tunnel*
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> 
> Yesterday, Israel carried out a controlled explosion to destroy an attack tunnel dug by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group that started in the Gazan city of Khan Younis and crossed into Israeli territory.
> A member of Islamic Jihad, Khaled Al-Batsh, explained [in Al-Dustour (Jordanian newspaper), Oct. 31, 2017] that the tunnel that Israel attacked "was intended for freeing prisoners from the Israeli occupation prisons." Al-Batsh was implying that the purpose of the tunnel was to facilitate the entry of Islamic Jihad terrorists into Israel, to kidnap Israelis who would then be used as hostages to force Israel to release prisoners.
> At least seven members of the Islamic Jihad and Hamas terror organizations, including senior terrorist commanders, were killed in the explosion of the tunnel.
> 
> Instead of condemning the digging of the terror tunnel, Mahmoud Abbas's PA and Fatah chose to accuse Israel of using "poisonous gas" in breach of International law.


Oh my, so many terrorist cards.

They must be trying to sell something.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
Click to expand...

The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
Click to expand...


Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
Click to expand...

It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s always a touch of irony when various components of* Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc. (PA, PLO, Fatah, Islamic Gee-had, etc.), *work themselves into a froth defending acts of Islamic terrorism.
> *
> PA accuses Israel of using "poisonous gas" while exploding terror tunnel - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> 
> *PA accuses Israel of using "poisonous gas"
> while exploding terror tunnel*
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> 
> Yesterday, Israel carried out a controlled explosion to destroy an attack tunnel dug by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group that started in the Gazan city of Khan Younis and crossed into Israeli territory.
> A member of Islamic Jihad, Khaled Al-Batsh, explained [in Al-Dustour (Jordanian newspaper), Oct. 31, 2017] that the tunnel that Israel attacked "was intended for freeing prisoners from the Israeli occupation prisons." Al-Batsh was implying that the purpose of the tunnel was to facilitate the entry of Islamic Jihad terrorists into Israel, to kidnap Israelis who would then be used as hostages to force Israel to release prisoners.
> At least seven members of the Islamic Jihad and Hamas terror organizations, including senior terrorist commanders, were killed in the explosion of the tunnel.
> 
> Instead of condemning the digging of the terror tunnel, Mahmoud Abbas's PA and Fatah chose to accuse Israel of using "poisonous gas" in breach of International law.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so many terrorist cards.
> 
> They must be trying to sell something.
Click to expand...


Oh, my. Such denial. 

You must have been sold something. 

I’m sure you don’t understand that the Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanisns” have become little more than Baghdad Bob wannabes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Another of your Baghdad Bob’isms.


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Dead Sea Scrolls – Cultural Institute


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Zionist Jesus King of the Jews. No history of “palestinians”


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Dean of Middle East historians: Palestine, invented Roman name for Jews’ land


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Eminent Muslim scholar: Palestine, Roman invention on Jews’ land


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Dean of Middle East historians: For Arabs, palestine was an invention


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Zionist Jesus King of Israel. “Palestine” doesn’t appear in the Bible as it didn’t exist


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_

That is a timeline issue...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

•  In the case of Jordan, there is 45 years difference between the Armistice Arrangement and the Treaty.
•  In the case of Egypt, there s 30 years difference between the Armistice and the Armistice Arrangement and 'the Treaty.
※→  And finally, the name "Palestine" will be around for ever as a historical name of the Region (non-political subdivision).  

Depending on the Time-frame and usage, the description "Palestine" may mean any one of a number variously shaped territorial entities.

The borders established by the Treaties are dependent on the mutual recognition of the parties of each other.  In the case of Egypt:  The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt must recognize the Government of the State of Israel; and _vice versa_.  That is done in the first sentence of Article II.   Similarly with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, must recognize the Government of the State of Israel (and vice versa) in Sentence 3 of Article 3 of the Treaty.  

In both cases, what the UN said or did not say, is irrelevant to the Treaty between the two parties.  The UN was not a party to the 1949 Armistice Arrangements and the UN was not a party to the Treaties.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN cannot establish borders. They do, however, reference existing borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me guess, you’re suggesting the UN recognizes the border of your invented “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is only invented to Zionist propagandists.
Click to expand...


Koran: Children of Israel. “Palestine” doesn’t appear as it didn’t exist


----------



## JoelT1

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_
> 
> That is a timeline issue...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  In the case of Jordan, there is 45 years difference between the Armistice Arrangement and the Treaty.
> •  In the case of Egypt, there s 30 years difference between the Armistice and the Armistice Arrangement and 'the Treaty.
> ※→  And finally, the name "Palestine" will be around for ever as a historical name of the Region (non-political subdivision).
> 
> Depending on the Time-frame and usage, the description "Palestine" may mean any one of a number variously shaped territorial entities.
> 
> The borders established by the Treaties are dependent on the mutual recognition of the parties of each other.  In the case of Egypt:  The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt must recognize the Government of the State of Israel; and _vice versa_.  That is done in the first sentence of Article II.   Similarly with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, must recognize the Government of the State of Israel (and vice versa) in Sentence 3 of Article 3 of the Treaty.
> 
> In both cases, what the UN said or did not say, is irrelevant to the Treaty between the two parties.  The UN was not a party to the 1949 Armistice Arrangements and the UN was not a party to the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Palestine was a British invention named after the Roman invention of palestine imposed on ancient Israel


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please disprove Elhaik's evidence Shush...the argument you post is so ridiculously stupid that it begs raucous laughter...instead of saying "You are presenting false information."  PROVE IT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  You DO know what DNA and genome study is, don't you?  You know that the only thing it can possibly do is compare one population to another and see what commonalities they have, right?  And you know that in order to compare groups of people -- there needs to be, well, you know, groups to compare.  The claim you are supporting says that there has been a comparison of Ashkenazi Jews to Khazars and they are found to be similar.  Here's the problem -- THERE ARE NO KHAZARS TO COMPARE TO.  There is no way to make a comparison because there are no surviving, definitive group of Khazars with which to make a comparison.  Therefore any correlation built between the Ashkenazi Jews and the Khazars is unfounded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab/Palestinians have rights derived from their tenure in Palestine, does this info penetrate that dense grey matter yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not arguing that.  I consistently support the rights of Arab Palestinians due to their long tenure in the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...by contrast the fictive claims of the Zio-trash have zero legal validity...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jewish people also have a long tenure in the territory.  Nearly four thousand years worth.  Longer, in point of fact, than the Arabs.  So why wouldn't the Jewish people ALSO have rights?
> 
> Is it because they were forcibly removed?  Is it because there are no "real" Jews left?  Why would the Jewish people not ALSO have rights?
Click to expand...




Okay you do understand that DNA can be extracted from skeletal remains correct?  What you post above is mere opinion--and or propaganda...it has no scientific value...find someone better educated to explain that Elhaik doesn't engage in hypothesis or theories---he offers proof!  If you incorrectly believe that Jews with zero genetic relation to the ancient tribes have 'rights to the lands of Palestine present proof, your opinion is irrelevant...



Two human skeletons which were considered in this work, were obtained from two Khazar burial mounds in southern Russian steppes. The mounds, or kurgans, were typical Khazarian mounds surrounded by shallow square ritual ditches. Both burials are described in the literature (Ilyin, 1995; Parusimov, 1998; Glebov & Ivanov, 2007; Batieva, 2007). Both burials, named Kuteiniki II (mound 2, burial 1) and Talov II (mound 2, burial 1), are located in the South-East of the Rostov region on the left bank of Don river, about 70 kilometers from each other. The first was excavated in 1994, the second in 2004. The first burial was robbed in the past. The human skeleton belonged to a male of 40+ years old, the human bones were moved by the robbers, and the original burial position was uncertain. The burial was dated by the end of the VII to the beginning of the VIII century CE. The DNA sample obtained from the burial was assigned by the index 1251. The second burial was not robbed and was completely preserved. The human skeleton belonged to a male of 35 - 45 years old, positioned stretched on its back, the skull to the West. The burial was dated by the second half of the VIII to the beginning of the IX century CE. The DNA sample obtained from the burial was assigned by the index 1986. In the first half of the IX century kurgans with square ditches were seized to appear. The archaeological culture vanished. It seems that Khazars left the lower Don steppes during that time period; thus, Kuteiniki and Talovo burials mark early Khazar and late Khazar times, respectively, of their presence in the Don steppes. The DNA in both cases was extracted from teeth of the ancient skeletons. The teeth were cleaned and ground in a vibration mill, the DNA was isolated by phenol extraction, and other routine procedures were employed for quantitation of the isolated DNA, such as the polymerase chain reaction. In both cases the Y-chromosomal haplogroup of the ancient Khazars was identified as R1a, and the primers specific to SNP mutations R1a-Z280 and R1a-Z93 revealed that the both samples showed negative Z280 and positive Z93 mutations. Thus, both ancient Khazars’ DNA was interpreted to be of the R1a-Z93 “signature”. This is a very rare SNP in present-day ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, Poles and other Slavic male populations, approximately 50% of whom are estimated to carry the R1a haplogroup (www.eupedia; Rozhanskii & Klyosov, 2012). On the other hand, R1a-Z93 is very common in present-day Turkic-speaking peoples such as Caucasian Karachaevo-Balkars, also Tatars, Bashkirs, Kirgiz, and other populations who apparently descended from Scythians, and have their common ancestors in the R1a-Z93 subclade dated back to 1500 - 2500 years ago (Klyosov & Rozhanskii, 2012; Klyosov & Saidov, 2015). In addition to their haplogroups and subclades, Y-chromosome haplotypes were determined in samples 1251 and 1986. In the 20 marker format (DYS 393, 390, 19, 391, 385a, 385b, 439, 389-1, 392, 389-2–DYS 458, 447, 437, 448, 449, GATA H4, 456, 576, 438, 635), their haplotypes were as follows: A. A



Source:

Excavated DNA from Two Khazar Burials Anatole A. Klyosov1,2, Tatiana Faleeva3 1 The Academy of DNA Genealogy, Boston, USA 2 The Academy of DNA Genealogy, Moscow, Russia 3 The National Forensic Center, Rostov-on-Don, Russi


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> And again, your explanation is a stream of names that relate to a conflict a half century ago.  A stream of names with no context.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah yeah yeah,  What particular crime by statute is IIsrael in violation?
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again you are completely in error...Israel does not have 'territorial integrity' to the obvious extent that the state is a criminal occupier...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If Israel has no "territorial Integrity," _(which would be great --- but damn incorrect)_ then that is all the better.  I F Israel is contained holey with the territory formerly under the Mandate,  T H E N the conflict between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians takes on the complexion of a *NIAC* (Civil War) which by definition is a "Domestic Issues" _(contained entirely in one jurisdiction)._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Article 2(7) UN Charter" said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing contained in the *present Charter* shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially *within the domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> View attachment 158472​√  Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> View attachment 158476​※  Special Note of applicability:  *Article V:  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements*
> *Transitional period and permanent status negotiations:*
> 1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
> 
> 2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people's representatives.
> 
> 3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: *Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and co-operation* with other neighbours, and other issues of common interest.
> 
> 4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or pre-empted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you play the same blame game that is consciously wound through the spools of Zionist propaganda...to refer to the ridiculously unbalanced resistance of the Palestinians as 'terrorism' and the actions of Israel as legitimate is essentially to flip the roles of victims and aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Balanced -- Unbalanced makes no difference.  Tactically speaking, I don't know what that means.  What I do know is that since the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) historically there has been a escalating pattern of antisocial and criminal behavior perpetrated by the Palestinians --- premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against soft targets by subnational groups or by small cells of covert operators that engage in indiscriminate rocket launchings, psychopathic attacks on the defenseless, hijackings and skyjackings, kidnappings and murders, bombings, arson, and --- with growth in the expanding menu of attack options..
> 
> _Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) Jihadist, Fedayeen Operators, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamist, and other Asymmetric fighters out to commit a level of violence in a coercive manner to achieve objectives that they were unable to achieve through peaceful means._
> 
> Produce widesrpead fear
> Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media
> Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive
> Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group
> Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens
> Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country's economy and support of the government in power
> Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions
> Free prisoners
> Satisfy vengeance
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews continue to brazenly steal Palestinian lands and build networks of illegal Jewish settlements---thereby deliberately inciting violence and the laughable claim that 'we Jews are under attack by Arab terrorists'...this argument will invariably go back to the documented public statements of leading 20th century Zionists, who were quite frank in their intent and its predicted consequences...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you absolutely sure that Israel is not operating withing the framework of the agreement.  And if Israel was coloring outside the lines, would it have not been in the best interest of the HoAP to work through the Dispute Resolution Process?  But the record show that the PLO did not bring this to the Dispute Process even once in all this time.
> *Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement* on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
> 
> Chapter 2, Article XI 3c, Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip:  "Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.
> 
> Chapter 2, Article XII 5:  " For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip, as shown on attached map No. 2."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rocky...I keep repeating the same stipulations which obliterate your circular argument...please familiarize yourself with the public statements of David Ben Gurion...Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Jabotinsky...etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Public Statements of Men not a single one of which is still alive and not a single one of which has been in public office or made an significant public statement in ≈ three decades or more.  Yes, anyone can go to *www.brainyquote.com* and get old political quotes.  But old political quotes are not the same as current policy.
> 
> •  Ze'ev Jabotinsky  Lived: Oct 18, 1880 - Aug 04, 1940 (age 59) ---------- DIED 77 Years Ago
> • Chaim Azriel Weizmann  Lived: Nov 27, 1874 - Nov 09, 1952 (age 77) - DIED 65 Years Ago
> • David Ben-Gurion   Lived: Oct 16, 1886 - Dec 01, 1973 (age 87)  -------- DIED 44 Years Ago
> • Moshe Dayan  Lived: May 20, 1915 - Oct 16, 1981 (age 66) -------------- DIED 36 Years Ago
> • Menachem Begin  Lived: Aug 16, 1913 - Mar 09, 1992 (age 78) --------- DIED 25 Years Ago
> • Yitzhak Rabin  Lived: Mar 01, 1922 - Nov 04, 1995 (age 73) -------------- DIED 22 Years Ago​Not a single one of these leaders represents today's 21st Century Strategic Approach to the basic issues that persist as an item for permanent negotiation status.
> 
> The one fragment of the 21st Century baseline of today is paraphrased in the press article ‘We Do Not Apologize for Killing Terrorists’ By JNi.Media – October 31, 2017:
> "We must not apologize for our success in eliminating terrorists,” Bennett Tweeted,
> “These are terrorists who were digging a hellish tunnel into Israeli territory,
> designed to kill Israeli women and children.”
> -----------------------------------------------------------  _Minister of Education *Naftali Bennett*_ ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Are you honestly this dense Rocco?  Do you deliberately miss the significance of these Zionist luminaries?  It is completely irrelevant as to whether they are alive today...their public statements essentially support the argument of every critic of Zionism, and your entire argument is wiped away by their authority...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
Click to expand...



Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
Click to expand...


Even more curious is your nonsensical claim.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

I am not so naive as to think that over time, political positions and the conditions that molded them, are a constant.



Ventura77 said:


> Are you honestly this dense Rocco?  Do you deliberately miss the significance of these?  It is completely irrelevant as to whether they are alive today...their public statements essentially support the argument of every critic of Zionism, and your entire argument is wiped away by their authority...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?


*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish Community which had to address the Cleric and Muslims implicated as a leader of the 1920 Nebi Musa riots.

The Jewish Community in the day of the Palestinian Black Hand evolved to meet the new challenge.    And still again, the Jewish Community faced the developing Arab Palestinian Leaders that sought an alliance with the Axis Powers, and organized anti-Semitic riots.  And certainly, the badly mauled Jewish Community evolved and adapted to the post-War  politics and the realities of the strong opposition.

The transition of the Jewish Community emerging from its embryonic state of development and into a 20th Century state demonstrated again the resilience of the Jewish Community and its ability to focus on the establishment of self-governing institutions.

*______________________________________________________________________________*​
It is important to note that, unlike the Arab Palestinians, the Jewish Community understand the importance and value in looking forward, to be adaptive and far reaching. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, _et al,_

Not all Jewish People are Zionists.



Ventura77 said:


> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...


*(COMMENT)*

The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.

F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS

 When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_
> 
> That is a timeline issue...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  In the case of Jordan, there is 45 years difference between the Armistice Arrangement and the Treaty.
> •  In the case of Egypt, there s 30 years difference between the Armistice and the Armistice Arrangement and 'the Treaty.
> ※→  And finally, the name "Palestine" will be around for ever as a historical name of the Region (non-political subdivision).
> 
> Depending on the Time-frame and usage, the description "Palestine" may mean any one of a number variously shaped territorial entities.
> 
> The borders established by the Treaties are dependent on the mutual recognition of the parties of each other.  In the case of Egypt:  The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt must recognize the Government of the State of Israel; and _vice versa_.  That is done in the first sentence of Article II.   Similarly with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, must recognize the Government of the State of Israel (and vice versa) in Sentence 3 of Article 3 of the Treaty.
> 
> In both cases, what the UN said or did not say, is irrelevant to the Treaty between the two parties.  The UN was not a party to the 1949 Armistice Arrangements and the UN was not a party to the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still dancing around the question.


Are you saying that international borders expire with time? That the right to territorial integrity expires with time?

Explain what you mean.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_
> 
> That is a timeline issue...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  In the case of Jordan, there is 45 years difference between the Armistice Arrangement and the Treaty.
> •  In the case of Egypt, there s 30 years difference between the Armistice and the Armistice Arrangement and 'the Treaty.
> ※→  And finally, the name "Palestine" will be around for ever as a historical name of the Region (non-political subdivision).
> 
> Depending on the Time-frame and usage, the description "Palestine" may mean any one of a number variously shaped territorial entities.
> 
> The borders established by the Treaties are dependent on the mutual recognition of the parties of each other.  In the case of Egypt:  The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt must recognize the Government of the State of Israel; and _vice versa_.  That is done in the first sentence of Article II.   Similarly with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, must recognize the Government of the State of Israel (and vice versa) in Sentence 3 of Article 3 of the Treaty.
> 
> In both cases, what the UN said or did not say, is irrelevant to the Treaty between the two parties.  The UN was not a party to the 1949 Armistice Arrangements and the UN was not a party to the Treaties.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still dancing around the question.
> 
> 
> Are you saying that international borders expire with time? That the right to territorial integrity expires with time?
> 
> Explain what you mean.
Click to expand...

What is being said, but the deaf are hard of hearing IS, that .....

Borders are decided by the two or three (or more) entities involved in the matter.

Jordan and Israel had a Peace treaty and agreed on what the borders of each would be amongst themselves.

Egypt and Israel had a Peace Treaty and agreed on what the borders of each would be amongst themselves.

WHEN, if truly ever, the Arab palestinians are ready for a real peace Treaty as the ones set by Jordan, Egypt and Israel.....then.....those will be the decided borders between them.

There is a de facto border between Israel and Gaza.  When Hamas throws its charter into the garbage and gets real about giving a good life to all inhabitants in Gaza, and not just stealing anything and everything they can get their hands on.......THEN.......there will be decided borders between the two parties.

The same with the PA.

Dance on fool, because nothing which is clear to the UN and all interested, seems to ever get through to you.


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...


----------



## Ventura77

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I am not so naive as to think that over time, political positions and the conditions that molded them, are a constant.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you honestly this dense Rocco?  Do you deliberately miss the significance of these?  It is completely irrelevant as to whether they are alive today...their public statements essentially support the argument of every critic of Zionism, and your entire argument is wiped away by their authority...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Community which had to address the Cleric and Muslims implicated as a leader of the 1920 Nebi Musa riots.
> 
> The Jewish Community in the day of the Palestinian Black Hand evolved to meet the new challenge.    And still again, the Jewish Community faced the developing Arab Palestinian Leaders that sought an alliance with the Axis Powers, and organized anti-Semitic riots.  And certainly, the badly mauled Jewish Community evolved and adapted to the post-War  politics and the realities of the strong opposition.
> 
> The transition of the Jewish Community emerging from its embryonic state of development and into a 20th Century state demonstrated again the resilience of the Jewish Community and its ability to focus on the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> *______________________________________________________________________________*​
> It is important to note that, unlike the Arab Palestinians, the Jewish Community understand the importance and value in looking forward, to be adaptive and far reaching.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Once again you embrace self-delusions:  The Zionist Jews plotted to conquer Historic Palestine and conduct mass-expulsions, property and land theft, murder and criminal occupation---these are the professed values upon which the modern state of Israel was founded...it is no small wonder that the scale and resonance of the reality essentially determines the aggressive, delusional nature of the revised claims---all of which lie in stark contradiction to the stated aims and implementation of the Zionist plan...HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even more curious is your nonsensical claim.
Click to expand...




Yet another devastating refutation...how can we mere mortals ever hope to tangle successfully with intellectual giants such as Hokum-Hollie and Windy-Indie the feces king...????????


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> I am not so naive as to think that over time, political positions and the conditions that molded them, are a constant.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you honestly this dense Rocco?  Do you deliberately miss the significance of these?  It is completely irrelevant as to whether they are alive today...their public statements essentially support the argument of every critic of Zionism, and your entire argument is wiped away by their authority...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Community which had to address the Cleric and Muslims implicated as a leader of the 1920 Nebi Musa riots.
> 
> The Jewish Community in the day of the Palestinian Black Hand evolved to meet the new challenge.    And still again, the Jewish Community faced the developing Arab Palestinian Leaders that sought an alliance with the Axis Powers, and organized anti-Semitic riots.  And certainly, the badly mauled Jewish Community evolved and adapted to the post-War  politics and the realities of the strong opposition.
> 
> The transition of the Jewish Community emerging from its embryonic state of development and into a 20th Century state demonstrated again the resilience of the Jewish Community and its ability to focus on the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> *______________________________________________________________________________*​
> It is important to note that, unlike the Arab Palestinians, the Jewish Community understand the importance and value in looking forward, to be adaptive and far reaching.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once again you embrace self-delusions:  The Zionist Jews plotted to conquer Historic Palestine and conduct mass-expulsions, property and land theft, murder and criminal occupation---these are the professed values upon which the modern state of Israel was founded...it is no small wonder that the scale and resonance of the reality essentially determines the aggressive, delusional nature of the revised claims---all of which lie in stark contradiction to the stated aims and implementation of the Zionist plan...HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Click to expand...


Wow. That sloppy, incoherent and factually deficient tirade was among your more egregious violations of what we call "_Louie'isms_."


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the territorial integrity, at least as the West Bank and Gaza Strip Hostile Arab Palestinians are concerned are established by Treaty:
> 
> *√* Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (the "Parties")
> 
> √ Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel (the "Parties)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> ---------------------
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine*, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> So, how does Israel claim borders on territory that the UN calls Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did the UN become responsible for establishing borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even more curious is your nonsensical claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another devastating refutation...how can we mere mortals ever hope to tangle successfully with intellectual giants such as Hokum-Hollie and Windy-Indie the feces king...????????
Click to expand...


Another frantic tirade where you're reduced to childish name-calling and your usual vulgarities.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
Click to expand...

Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?

Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947

Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.

The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.

Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.  
If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of 
the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.

All of them must be dissolved.
And then what?

Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?

Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
Click to expand...



Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:  

"If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"    

Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...


----------



## Hollie

It's ironic that the Islamic terrorists in Fatah would include "No pride in Colonialism..." in their Facebook page when Islamic colonialism defines the history of Islamism.


Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”  - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW

Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”
Official Fatah Facebook page - Oct. 31, 2017

























_



_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
Click to expand...

Guess What !!!!!

The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
Why?  Because they were the victors.
The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
Same UN.

The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.

The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.

No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.

You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.

And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.

Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.

They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.

Am Israel Chai !


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
Click to expand...


Your tirades are as usual, pointless and time wasting.

*Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority*

The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority


From the attached link:

Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.

Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.

Ever since 1948, Palestinian institutions dealing with the refugee issue have been trying to obtain accurate records on the land and property that were lost when Israel was established. This effort has gained steam in recent years, but no Palestinian institution has come close to collecting all the relevant data. One reason for the lackadaisical effort may be the Palestinians' understanding that the data has little practical value other than for public relations. At most, it will be used in the bargaining over compensation for refugees, if and when such negotiations take place

read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious question given the mistaken Zionist claim that Israel's putative borders were determined by 181...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
Click to expand...


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
Click to expand...


Thank you hyena, we do thank you.

You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.

Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.

Never Again !

Am Israel Chai !


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> It's ironic that the Islamic terrorists in Fatah would include "No pride in Colonialism..." in their Facebook page when Islamic colonialism defines the history of Islamism.
> 
> 
> Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”  - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW
> 
> Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”
> Official Fatah Facebook page - Oct. 31, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _





OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  your absolute brilliance has left me once again without a sufficient reply...I beg you to consider mercy...how can we poor, empty-handed critics of Israel hope to leverage any points against such demonstrable brilliance as this?  sniff...sniff...I hate you


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
Click to expand...




'Sixties'...I almost feel a sense of gratitude because every time I post a comment to you the reply is not only predictable to the point of verbatim anticipation...but in addition your child-like indignation and pugnacious idiocy essentially make my point for me to the extent that any obligation to answer you is futile...if I laugh any harder I fear a blood vessel rupture...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
Click to expand...




To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ironic that the Islamic terrorists in Fatah would include "No pride in Colonialism..." in their Facebook page when Islamic colonialism defines the history of Islamism.
> 
> 
> Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”  - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW
> 
> Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”
> Official Fatah Facebook page - Oct. 31, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  your absolute brilliance has left me once again without a sufficient reply...I beg you to consider mercy...how can we poor, empty-handed critics of Israel hope to leverage any points against such demonstrable brilliance as this?  sniff...sniff...I hate you
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
Click to expand...

And with language like that is when the Jews understood that they were going to have to defend themselves from the "friendly Arabs"
who were rioting, incited by their Jihad Master Al - Husseini.

Just keep reminding Jews as to why it is that they need a sovereign country ON their ancient homeland, and to protect and defend ALL the population from people who want to see them forever Stateless and without protection.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ironic that the Islamic terrorists in Fatah would include "No pride in Colonialism..." in their Facebook page when Islamic colonialism defines the history of Islamism.
> 
> 
> Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”  - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW
> 
> Fatah Facebook post commemorating Balfour Declaration with image of bloody hand: “No Pride in Colonialism”
> Official Fatah Facebook page - Oct. 31, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  your absolute brilliance has left me once again without a sufficient reply...I beg you to consider mercy...how can we poor, empty-handed critics of Israel hope to leverage any points against such demonstrable brilliance as this?  sniff...sniff...I hate you
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




listen...to even refer to you as a moron would fall so short of what you actually are...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> 
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And with language like that is when the Jews understood that they were going to have to defend themselves from the "friendly Arabs"
> who were rioting, incited by their Jihad Master Al - Husseini.
> 
> Just keep reminding Jews as to why it is that they need a sovereign country ON their ancient homeland, and to protect and defend ALL the population from people who want to see them forever Stateless and without protection.
Click to expand...




Funny but the 'Jews' that you speak of are conspiratorial pirates, thieves, liars, terrorists, political opportunists, child-killers and scum-bags of the most revolting dimensions...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And with language like that is when the Jews understood that they were going to have to defend themselves from the "friendly Arabs"
> who were rioting, incited by their Jihad Master Al - Husseini.
> 
> Just keep reminding Jews as to why it is that they need a sovereign country ON their ancient homeland, and to protect and defend ALL the population from people who want to see them forever Stateless and without protection.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny but the 'Jews' that you speak of are conspiratorial pirates, thieves, liars, terrorists, political opportunists, child-killers and scum-bags of the most revolting dimensions...
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true Christian/Muslim/Atheist or whatever else Jew hater that you have become.
And only 1950 years of practice at doing it.  

Keep it up


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Ventura77, _et al,_
> 
> Not all Jewish People are Zionists.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNSCOP Recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) is just that, a recommendation.  *I F * the parties addressed follow these recommendations  *T H E N* special considerations would be given.
> 
> F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> 
> When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, *sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership* in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
Click to expand...


Nicely done. It's always funny to watch you launch into these screeching tirades when your feeble attempts at a rebuttal leave you stuttering and mumbling. Your most flaming tirades accompany your embarrassment at being schooled in the history you know so little of.

No brand of hatred has a more bloodstained lineage than your brand of Islamic inspired, genocidal Joooooo-hatred. It's difficult to call it mere "anti-Semitism;" as that label doesn't adequately capture the depths of self-hatred and projected Joooo-hatred that grips people like you. 

I have to note the source of your self-hate derives from how dramatically the Jewish people have managed to overcome and thrive during times of oppression, especially religious oppression. How else do you think Israel, in only a few short decades became a world economy and prospering society despite the cesspool of islamist backwaters surrounding them? Do you consider yourselves clever for providing the Israelis (and the rest of the modern, relevant western world), with the very fuel by which our successes has been propelled?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
Click to expand...


Your online gee-had is a hoot. 

You know what, my dear umma'ist? I don't care how much you loathe yourself for your inadequacies and self-inflicted pratfalls. Just get over your failures and your self-loathing in the name of your angry war deity. Maybe teach your kids to love and build instead of hate and destroy. Your women's rights policies could use a little work too.

Go work on that.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And with language like that is when the Jews understood that they were going to have to defend themselves from the "friendly Arabs"
> who were rioting, incited by their Jihad Master Al - Husseini.
> 
> Just keep reminding Jews as to why it is that they need a sovereign country ON their ancient homeland, and to protect and defend ALL the population from people who want to see them forever Stateless and without protection.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny but the 'Jews' that you speak of are conspiratorial pirates, thieves, liars, terrorists, political opportunists, child-killers and scum-bags of the most revolting dimensions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Spoken like a true Christian/Muslim/Atheist or whatever else Jew hater that you have become.
> And only 1950 years of practice at doing it.
> 
> Keep it up
Click to expand...




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA Dumb as crab grass...you posted yet another inadvertent confirmation of your blind idiocy...


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here yet again we are confronted with an ideological strain of cognitive-dissonance: because no ( DEPENDENT ) Israel was in existence one cannot logically use the terminology INDEPENDENT ISRAEL...you cannot appear to grasp the significance of Zionist statements prior to and following the criminal declaration of statehood...the public statements categorically refute the propaganda vessel which follows...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling us that the UN is a criminal organization?
> 
> Because it was that very same United Nations, which agreed for Israel to become Independent and declare that Independence in the absence of the Arabs also accepting the Partition of 1947
> 
> Either the UN organization IS responsible to accepting which places can become new countries and be welcomed to the UN, as Israel was, or it is not.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was the same as the other three Mandates.  Created to help those separate areas become countries with their own infrastructure, government, etc.
> 
> Iraq and Syria and Lebanon achieved that in the 30s.
> If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland, unlike the Hashemites who took over 78% of
> the Jewish homeland which was part of the Mandate for a Jewish Home/State, than NONE of those countries has a right to exist.
> 
> All of them must be dissolved.
> And then what?
> 
> Is it time for the Kurds to finally have their independent country, where they have always been, or are the Arabs  and Turks going to continue to fight them and call the Kurds "terrorists" because they are fighting legally and any other way to become independent from Iraq and Turkey, for now?
> 
> Or do the Kurds not have any rights and must be under Sunny or Shia Arab power, and terrorism, for as long as the Arab and Turkish leaders decide it should go on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nicely done. It's always funny to watch you launch into these screeching tirades when your feeble attempts at a rebuttal leave you stuttering and mumbling. Your most flaming tirades accompany your embarrassment at being schooled in the history you know so little of.
> 
> No brand of hatred has a more bloodstained lineage than your brand of Islamic inspired, genocidal Joooooo-hatred. It's difficult to call it mere "anti-Semitism;" as that label doesn't adequately capture the depths of self-hatred and projected Joooo-hatred that grips people like you.
> 
> I have to note the source of your self-hate derives from how dramatically the Jewish people have managed to overcome and thrive during times of oppression, especially religious oppression. How else do you think Israel, in only a few short decades became a world economy and prospering society despite the cesspool of islamist backwaters surrounding them? Do you consider yourselves clever for providing the Israelis (and the rest of the modern, relevant western world), with the very fuel by which our successes has been propelled?
Click to expand...




ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And with language like that is when the Jews understood that they were going to have to defend themselves from the "friendly Arabs"
> who were rioting, incited by their Jihad Master Al - Husseini.
> 
> Just keep reminding Jews as to why it is that they need a sovereign country ON their ancient homeland, and to protect and defend ALL the population from people who want to see them forever Stateless and without protection.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny but the 'Jews' that you speak of are conspiratorial pirates, thieves, liars, terrorists, political opportunists, child-killers and scum-bags of the most revolting dimensions...
Click to expand...


More of the unhinged rhetoric from the angry muhammedan.

Here's a list of the things your sophomoric _I'm a jihadi..wheeee!_ tantrum people care about*:




*


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again dummy...the UN sponsored a ridiculously one-sided partition plan which proposed to cede 56% of Palestine to a Jewish minority that legally owned less than 5% of the lands...the recommendation was rightly voted down by the Arab States and India...when the organization later granted 'recognition' to the illegally established state of Israel the UN violated the letter and spirit of its own Charter, sworn to protect the property rights of native peoples.  You next invoke this ridiculous sentence:
> 
> "If Israel does not have the right to be an independent State on its own ancient homeland"
> 
> Here again your ignorance leads...Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic relation to the ancient Hebrews, therefore they cannot 're-claim a homeland' which never belonged to them...your argument is with those Zionist leaders and politicians who plotted to steal the lands...
> 
> 
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your online gee-had is a hoot.
> 
> You know what, my dear umma'ist? I don't care how much you loathe yourself for your inadequacies and self-inflicted pratfalls. Just get over your failures and your self-loathing in the name of your angry war deity. Maybe teach your kids to love and build instead of hate and destroy. Your women's rights policies could use a little work too.
> 
> Go work on that.
Click to expand...




Hollie...listen hon you're clearly out of your preferred element here...the standardized 'Jihad' ...'Islamist' spiel only makes you appear convulsively dumber than you actually are...I'm betting you're a bit smarter than this but alas you aren't helping me prove this bet...try to back away from your pathetic Hasbara manual long enough to test your wings hon...c'mon now...no one could be as inherently stupid as this...he...he, he


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And with language like that is when the Jews understood that they were going to have to defend themselves from the "friendly Arabs"
> who were rioting, incited by their Jihad Master Al - Husseini.
> 
> Just keep reminding Jews as to why it is that they need a sovereign country ON their ancient homeland, and to protect and defend ALL the population from people who want to see them forever Stateless and without protection.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny but the 'Jews' that you speak of are conspiratorial pirates, thieves, liars, terrorists, political opportunists, child-killers and scum-bags of the most revolting dimensions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of the unhinged rhetoric from the angry muhammedan.
> 
> Here's a list of the things your sophomoric _I'm a jihadi..wheeee!_ tantrum people care about*:
> 
> 
> 
> *
Click to expand...




How sad...poor mindless Hollie pulls her replies straight from the trusty Hasbara manual...Hol:  I'm not Mulsim...in fact I loathe religion...try to work from another equally dumb angle butt-nik....HHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess What !!!!!
> 
> The VICTORS of WWI made the decisions.
> Why?  Because they were the victors.
> The Arabs had no say, except to agree to live in peace with the Jews under Jewish Sovereignty.
> Just as the Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrians, etc have had to live under Arab Muslim sovereignty.
> Same UN.
> 
> The Jews earned recreating sovereignty over their ancient homeland the LEGAL way, you accept Jewish rights or not.
> 
> The Ashenazi Jews ARE descendants of the 12 tribes.  You accept it or not.
> 
> No Jew in their right mind, and there are very few who are out of their minds, would agree that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> You lose with the Ashkenazi Jews.
> You lose with the Mizrahi Jews.
> You lose with the Sepharadic Jews.
> 
> And that makes basically MOST of the 15 Million Jews on the planet.
> 
> Jews agreed to allow the Hashemites to truly steal 78 % of their ancient homeland, then.....there is nothing else that the Arabs have to belly ache about.
> They now have 80% of the ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> They wish to undo it and return most if not all of the land to the rightful owners, the Jewish Nation, the Jewish Nation will be more than happy to accept all of that land back.
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your online gee-had is a hoot.
> 
> You know what, my dear umma'ist? I don't care how much you loathe yourself for your inadequacies and self-inflicted pratfalls. Just get over your failures and your self-loathing in the name of your angry war deity. Maybe teach your kids to love and build instead of hate and destroy. Your women's rights policies could use a little work too.
> 
> Go work on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie...listen hon you're clearly out of your preferred element here...the standardized 'Jihad' ...'Islamist' spiel only makes you appear convulsively dumber than you actually are...I'm betting you're a bit smarter than this but alas you aren't helping me prove this bet...try to back away from your pathetic Hasbara manual long enough to test your wings hon...c'mon now...no one could be as inherently stupid as this...he...he, he
Click to expand...


Yet another of your silly, "Louie" tirades. They're getting an increasingly strident tone. Come to terms with the fact that your gee-had brings you only ridicule.

Go play in the street.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet another ( F-student ) of Mid-east history...you idiots just seem to yank replies right out of your ass don't you?  Your assertions are so demonstrably, pathetically void of proof or substance that the only reaction I can manage is sheer laughter...to call you stupid would miss the mark by a mile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you hyena, we do thank you.
> 
> You keep on howling to the moon and laughing to it as well.
> 
> Israel and the Jews understand your language very well, and always will.
> 
> Never Again !
> 
> Am Israel Chai !
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the contrary---THANK YOU HEYENA...it is a rare occurrence indeed when an opposing poster literally grants such generous assistance in proving that he is a ridiculously ignorant moron...I cannot even express the scale and depth of my gratitude you bottom-feeding POS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your online gee-had is a hoot.
> 
> You know what, my dear umma'ist? I don't care how much you loathe yourself for your inadequacies and self-inflicted pratfalls. Just get over your failures and your self-loathing in the name of your angry war deity. Maybe teach your kids to love and build instead of hate and destroy. Your women's rights policies could use a little work too.
> 
> Go work on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie...listen hon you're clearly out of your preferred element here...the standardized 'Jihad' ...'Islamist' spiel only makes you appear convulsively dumber than you actually are...I'm betting you're a bit smarter than this but alas you aren't helping me prove this bet...try to back away from your pathetic Hasbara manual long enough to test your wings hon...c'mon now...no one could be as inherently stupid as this...he...he, he
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your silly, "Louie" tirades. They're getting an increasingly strident tone. Come to terms with the fact that your gee-had brings you only ridicule.
> 
> Go play in the street.
Click to expand...




One-trick pony...IQ estimate:  low 70s


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conference: the role of women in the palestinian popular struggle.*

*Leila Khaled, Sahar Francis and Ahed Tamimi.*

**


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Okay you do understand that DNA can be extracted from skeletal remains correct?



Had you read Elhaik's paper, you would know he did not use DNA extracted from skeletal remains.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay you do understand that DNA can be extracted from skeletal remains correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had you read Elhaik's paper, you would know he did not use DNA extracted from skeletal remains.
Click to expand...




I have read Elhaik's paper, several times in fact...clearly you have not...or you cannot comprehend the irrefutable significance of his DNA evidence...As for the skeletal remains you incorrectly claimed that Khazar DNA didn't exist...hence I once again exposed your ignorance...


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_

Boundaries do not "expire;" except by the will of the sovereign.

Territorial integrity is relinquished, abandoned, withdrawn or assumed; but does not expire.



P F Tinmore said:


> Are you saying that international borders expire with time? That the right to territorial integrity expires with time?
> 
> Explain what you mean.


*(COMMENT)*

There are all kinds of things that may alter an international boundary.

International boundaries _(as with Armistice Lines)_ are a form, one of many forms, in what are considered "demarcations."  And the status and location of demarcation lines are negotiable.  

You will have no doubt noticed that between the time the Ottoman Empire unconditionally surrendered in 1918, until as 1922, when the Allied Powers published the Mandate for Palestine that the administration of Palestine, was within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers.  This is an example of designation by authority.

You will no doubt notice that there is an US-Canadian International Boundary Commission to handle border disputes.  this can alter such demarcations by dispute resolution.  And it can be altered by natural occurrences; as in the case of the shift in course by the Rio Grande.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> I have read Elhaik's paper, several times in fact..


Clearly, you didn't read to the end.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read Elhaik's paper, several times in fact..
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you didn't read to the end.
Click to expand...



Clearly you are helpless to comprehend the paper or its evidence...cognitive-dissonance, once yet again you denied that Khazar DNA was available today, I exposed one of a number of your errors...keep spinning




That led geneticist Eran Elhaik of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland to try to reconcile those conflicting studies. And that led him to genetic data that he believes proves the Khazar Hypothesis is accurate.

Elhaik found ancestral genetic signatures that pointed clearly to the Caucasus. He also found such signatures that pointed the Middle East, but to a far, far smaller degree.

“We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans. Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan,” Elhaik claims.

Previous genetic studies appeared to support the Rhineland Hypothesis, which posits that Ashkenazi Jews descended from Jews who fled the Land of Israel after the Moslem conquest in 638 AD, settling in southern Europe and slowly working their way north. 50,000 supposedly later moved from the Rhineland into eastern Europe in the later Middle Ages.

But there are serious problems with the Rhineland Hypothesis – so serious that some of its proponents actually posited a Divine miracle to account for them.

For example, the population of Eastern European Jews surged from 50,000 in the 15th century CE to about 8 million by the start of the 20th century – a birthrate 10 times greater than the local non-Jewish population that surrounded them. That implausible population surge would have had to take place despite the economic hardship, wars and pogroms that ravaged those Jewish communities, and the plague that ravaged the entire region.

Another problem with the Rhineland Hypothesis is Yiddish, the language of Eastern European Jews.

“Yiddish, the language of Central and Eastern European Jews, began as a Slavic language,” Elhaik notes. It was classified as a dialect of High German later.

European Jews and their ancestral groups in the Caucasus and Middle East share a relatively high risk of diseases such as cystic fibrosis, as well – another possible indicator of origins.

Elhaik’s study, published in the British journal Genome Biology and Evolution, compares the genomes of 1,287 unrelated individuals who come from eight Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The trouble with obtaining Khazar DNA is that no population group today is recognized to have descended from the Khazars. Elhaik acknowledges this difficulty and deals with it efficiently. According to him, “Caucasus Georgians and Armenians were considered proto-Khazars because they are believed to have emerged from the same genetic cohort as the Khazars.” He bases this claim on “Polak 1951; Dvornik 1962; Brook 2006.” This appears quite convincing unless one is familiar with the names cited—and the ones missing. Polak and Dvornik were important scholars, but their work is a half-century old and outdated, while Kevin Brook is a talented but amateur Khazar enthusiast who has no first-hand knowledge of Central Asian studies. In fact, no contemporary scholarship supports this claim. Moreover, elsewhere in the article Elhaik himself refers to a study by Balanovsky et al., but fails to mention that it concludes that of all the national groups in the Black Sea region, the Georgians and Armenians were the _least_ likely to have absorbed significant populations from other national groups. In other words, while there was DNA from eight Ashkenazi males in Elhaik’s study, there was no Khazar DNA at all. This makes it a bit difficult to come to significant conclusions about the Khazarian ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews. The problems, however, do not end there.
-------
*Following Koestler* (whose _The Thirteenth Tribe_ Elhaik has told interviewers he read as a child), Elhaik says that after the downfall of the Khazarian empire, “Some Judeo-Khazars were left behind, mainly in the Crimea and the Caucasus, where they formed Jewish enclaves surviving into modern times . . . [a] vestige of the Khazar nation is the Mountain Jews in the North Eastern Caucasus.” Unfortunately, Koestler had no evidence for this whatsoever. But there is a more serious problem, at least for Elhaik’s argument. If the “Mountain Jews” are a “vestige of the Khazar nation,” why bother with the Georgians and the Armenians? Elhaik could have just gone directly to these “descendants” and compared them with Ashkenazi Jews. The only answer I can see is that this is a case of the dreaded academic syndrome “Cut and Paste Disease.”
-----------
When all is said and done, the accepted wisdom is still acceptable. There is no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Central Asian “Jews with swords,” and there is every reason to think that they simply came from Central Europe. The findings of other genetic researchers that the DNA of most Jews seems to link them with other Jews more than with any other group has not been disproven.

(full article online)

Jewish Review of BooksAre We All Khazars Now? - Jewish Review of Books


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_
> 
> Boundaries do not "expire;" except by the will of the sovereign.
> 
> Territorial integrity is relinquished, abandoned, withdrawn or assumed; but does not expire.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that international borders expire with time? That the right to territorial integrity expires with time?
> 
> Explain what you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are all kinds of things that may alter an international boundary.
> 
> International boundaries _(as with Armistice Lines)_ are a form, one of many forms, in what are considered "demarcations."  And the status and location of demarcation lines are negotiable.
> 
> You will have no doubt noticed that between the time the Ottoman Empire unconditionally surrendered in 1918, until as 1922, when the Allied Powers published the Mandate for Palestine that the administration of Palestine, was within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers.  This is an example of designation by authority.
> 
> You will no doubt notice that there is an US-Canadian International Boundary Commission to handle border disputes.  this can alter such demarcations by dispute resolution.  And it can be altered by natural occurrences; as in the case of the shift in course by the Rio Grande.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> “We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans. Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with *roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan*,” Elhaik claims.



The conclusions from the paper:

_We compared two genetic models for European Jewish ancestry depicting a mixed Khazarian–European–Middle Eastern and sole Middle Eastern origins. Contemporary populations were used as surrogates to the ancient Khazars and Judeans, and their relatedness to European Jews was compared over a comprehensive set of genetic analyses. Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis depicting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with Southern European, *Middle Eastern*, and Eastern European ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and written traditions. We conclude that the genome of European *Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including* Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, and* Judeans *and that their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga *with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.*_


So all your bullshit that the Jewish people have no rights to the territory in question because they have no ancestry there is just that -- bullshit.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.



Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read Elhaik's paper, several times in fact..
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you didn't read to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly you are helpless to comprehend the paper or its evidence...cognitive-dissonance, once yet again you denied that Khazar DNA was available today, I exposed one of a number of your errors...keep spinning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That led geneticist Eran Elhaik of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland to try to reconcile those conflicting studies. And that led him to genetic data that he believes proves the Khazar Hypothesis is accurate.
> 
> Elhaik found ancestral genetic signatures that pointed clearly to the Caucasus. He also found such signatures that pointed the Middle East, but to a far, far smaller degree.
> 
> “We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans. Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan,” Elhaik claims.
> 
> Previous genetic studies appeared to support the Rhineland Hypothesis, which posits that Ashkenazi Jews descended from Jews who fled the Land of Israel after the Moslem conquest in 638 AD, settling in southern Europe and slowly working their way north. 50,000 supposedly later moved from the Rhineland into eastern Europe in the later Middle Ages.
> 
> But there are serious problems with the Rhineland Hypothesis – so serious that some of its proponents actually posited a Divine miracle to account for them.
> 
> For example, the population of Eastern European Jews surged from 50,000 in the 15th century CE to about 8 million by the start of the 20th century – a birthrate 10 times greater than the local non-Jewish population that surrounded them. That implausible population surge would have had to take place despite the economic hardship, wars and pogroms that ravaged those Jewish communities, and the plague that ravaged the entire region.
> 
> Another problem with the Rhineland Hypothesis is Yiddish, the language of Eastern European Jews.
> 
> “Yiddish, the language of Central and Eastern European Jews, began as a Slavic language,” Elhaik notes. It was classified as a dialect of High German later.
> 
> European Jews and their ancestral groups in the Caucasus and Middle East share a relatively high risk of diseases such as cystic fibrosis, as well – another possible indicator of origins.
> 
> Elhaik’s study, published in the British journal Genome Biology and Evolution, compares the genomes of 1,287 unrelated individuals who come from eight Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations.
Click to expand...



As usual, you provided no source for what you cut and pasted. Either you intended to again plagiarize material pretending it's your own or you knew that the tabloid
"beforeitsnews.com" was not a site for reliable science data.

That's not surprising as your cutting and pasting comes from a tabloid web site. You have made it clear that your cutting and pasting requires fact checking as the sources of your cutting and pasting often includes some of the most notorious internet tabloids.

While the web can be a valuable source of data, it can also be a playground for those who have little background in promoting facts but have an obvious agenda to press.

New Genetic Study Reportedly Proves Khazar Ancestry For Ashkenazi Jews | Power Elite

"beforeitsnews.com".

Super.

The site you plagiarized from actually links to "failedmessiah.com"

Wow.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
Click to expand...

None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...


As an expert in international law, I'm sure the Jordanians and Egyptians will be reaching out to you for legal advice.  

Otherwise, can you email the parties involved and express your outrage?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...

Palestine = Israel

All of Palestine = Israel

Israel approved of those borders, those are the borders.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans. Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with *roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan*,” Elhaik claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The conclusions from the paper:
> 
> _We compared two genetic models for European Jewish ancestry depicting a mixed Khazarian–European–Middle Eastern and sole Middle Eastern origins. Contemporary populations were used as surrogates to the ancient Khazars and Judeans, and their relatedness to European Jews was compared over a comprehensive set of genetic analyses. Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis depicting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with Southern European, *Middle Eastern*, and Eastern European ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and written traditions. We conclude that the genome of European *Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including* Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, and* Judeans *and that their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga *with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.*_
> 
> 
> So all your bullshit that the Jewish people have no rights to the territory in question because they have no ancestry there is just that -- bullshit.
Click to expand...



LOL!!!!   You don't even understand my position you puerile propaganda drone...the argument that Jews are genetically related to the ancient Hebrews is false, that is what Elhaik proves, yet this is hardly the question upon which 'rights' hinge...even if Israeli Jews could prove a genetic link to the ancient tribes there is no precedent for an absentee land-claim spanning 13 centuries. The hilarious part is that you cannot understand Elhaik's paper at all...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!  We both know you cannot do that...go back to your Hasbara-studies...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As an expert in international law, I'm sure the Jordanians and Egyptians will be reaching out to you for legal advice.
> 
> Otherwise, can you email the parties involved and express your outrage?
Click to expand...

I am sure that would not override the billions a year the US gives them to sign those agreements.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!



List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> “We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans. Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with *roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan*,” Elhaik claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The conclusions from the paper:
> 
> _We compared two genetic models for European Jewish ancestry depicting a mixed Khazarian–European–Middle Eastern and sole Middle Eastern origins. Contemporary populations were used as surrogates to the ancient Khazars and Judeans, and their relatedness to European Jews was compared over a comprehensive set of genetic analyses. Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis depicting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with Southern European, *Middle Eastern*, and Eastern European ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and written traditions. We conclude that the genome of European *Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including* Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, and* Judeans *and that their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga *with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.*_
> 
> 
> So all your bullshit that the Jewish people have no rights to the territory in question because they have no ancestry there is just that -- bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!   You don't even understand my position you puerile propaganda drone...the argument that Jews are genetically related to the ancient Hebrews is false, that is what Elhaik proves, yet this is hardly the question upon which 'rights' hinge...even if Israeli Jews could prove a genetic link to the ancient tribes there is no precedent for an absentee land-claim spanning 13 centuries. The hilarious part is that you cannot understand Elhaik's paper at all...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!  We both know you cannot do that...go back to your Hasbara-studies...
Click to expand...


How does anyone refute your cutting and pasting from an authoritative source such as "failedmessiah.com"?

As I understand it, they are as authoritative as your earlier cutting and pasting from some loon who is apparently a member of the "Flat Earth Society".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine = Israel
> 
> All of Palestine = Israel
> 
> Israel approved of those borders, those are the borders.
Click to expand...

Israel also signed agreements saying that territory is Palestine.

But, then again, Israel is a lying sack of shit country. They will do anything hoping nobody will call then on it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As an expert in international law, I'm sure the Jordanians and Egyptians will be reaching out to you for legal advice.
> 
> Otherwise, can you email the parties involved and express your outrage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am sure that would no override the billions a year the US gives them to sign those agreements.
Click to expand...


Another retreat to a conspiracy theory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As an expert in international law, I'm sure the Jordanians and Egyptians will be reaching out to you for legal advice.
> 
> Otherwise, can you email the parties involved and express your outrage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am sure that would no override the billions a year the US gives them to sign those agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another retreat to a conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

It's true. Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine = Israel
> 
> All of Palestine = Israel
> 
> Israel approved of those borders, those are the borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel also signed agreements saying that territory is Palestine.
> 
> But, then again, Israel is a lying sack of shit country. They will do anything hoping nobody will call then on it.
Click to expand...


All the more reason to bring the full weight and authority of your international law presence to resolve this. 

Maybe you could, ya' know, sue the shit out of em'.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> 
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As an expert in international law, I'm sure the Jordanians and Egyptians will be reaching out to you for legal advice.
> 
> Otherwise, can you email the parties involved and express your outrage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am sure that would no override the billions a year the US gives them to sign those agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another retreat to a conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's true. Look it up.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
Click to expand...

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine = Israel
> 
> All of Palestine = Israel
> 
> Israel approved of those borders, those are the borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel also signed agreements saying that territory is Palestine.
> 
> But, then again, Israel is a lying sack of shit country. They will do anything hoping nobody will call then on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the more reason to bring the full weight and authority of your international law presence to resolve this.
> 
> Maybe you could, ya' know, sue the shit out of em'.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Palestinians are working on that as we speak.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
Click to expand...



I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.
Click to expand...

As a Christian, you well know that the Jewish Nation is regarded as a People.
They are the original People, citizens of what was known as the region of Palestine, where their Nation - Israel - was situated.

The Jewish People were the sovereign ones from King David on, 3000 years ago with very defined "international" borders (although they were not called that at the time)

Losing sovereignty to invading conquerors does not make the Jewish Nation less of the rightful owner within its own territories, no matter how long a time has passed since they had any sovereignty over it.

Israel, is not asking to be sovereign over Gaza. Or Lebanon, or Jordan, or Egypt.
Only over its own ancient land.  20 % of what was left after 78% was given to the Arabs, and another percent ended up also with Arabs, in Gaza.

Some percent is in Arab hands in Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria, known to be ancient Jewish Homeland.

Your examples keep being confused.

The Arabs, if we follow your examples, have no sovereignty over the 20 or so Arab countries outside of their original homeland/Country/Nation/Territory.  It should be given back to the indigenous people of those lands.

How are we going to accomplish that?

The more the Arab/Muslims have, the more they want.

Is it fair for the Arabs to have the 20% of the Jewish Homeland the Jews are now sovereign of, if the Arabs are not Jews, and it is not their territory?


----------



## Ventura77

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...
Click to expand...






Jews admit not Jewish




Jewish and other sources admit that they are not Israelites, but Khazars that came from Russia. They earlier were Gentiles that converted to Judaism. It doesn't say in these sources that before that they were Edomites, but other sources do.

The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah

 The Jews admit that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Israelites in their writings. Under the heading of "A brief History of the Terms for Jew" in the 1980 Jewish Almanac is the following:

"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."

(1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

Encyclopedia Americana (1985): 

"Khazar, an ancient Turkic speaking people who ruled a large and powerful state in the steppes North of the Caucasus Mountains from the 7th century to their demise in the mid 11th century A.D... In the 8th Century it's political and religious head... as well as the greater part of the Khazar nobility, abandoned paganism and converted to Judaism... (The Khazars are believed to be the ancestors of most Russian and Eastern European Jews)."


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> "A people" are the people inside a defined territory. ...
> 
> The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory.



This is a criteria based on residence.  So the Jewish people who live in the defined territory are people of the place.  And the Arab Palestinians who no longer dwell within the territory are no longer people of the place and have no further rights?

Did you want to go with that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> 
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine = Israel
> 
> All of Palestine = Israel
> 
> Israel approved of those borders, those are the borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel also signed agreements saying that territory is Palestine.
> 
> But, then again, Israel is a lying sack of shit country. They will do anything hoping nobody will call then on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the more reason to bring the full weight and authority of your international law presence to resolve this.
> 
> Maybe you could, ya' know, sue the shit out of em'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians are working on that as we speak.
Click to expand...


Indeed, they are. By building tunnels which become their coffins. 

And allah knows best.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,



So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Christian, you well know that the Jewish Nation is regarded as a People.
> They are the original People, citizens of what was known as the region of Palestine, where their Nation - Israel - was situated.
> 
> The Jewish People were the sovereign ones from King David on, 3000 years ago with very defined "international" borders (although they were not called that at the time)
> 
> Losing sovereignty to invading conquerors does not make the Jewish Nation less of the rightful owner within its own territories, no matter how long a time has passed since they had any sovereignty over it.
> 
> Israel, is not asking to be sovereign over Gaza. Or Lebanon, or Jordan, or Egypt.
> Only over its own ancient land.  20 % of what was left after 78% was given to the Arabs, and another percent ended up also with Arabs, in Gaza.
> 
> Some percent is in Arab hands in Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria, known to be ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Your examples keep being confused.
> 
> The Arabs, if we follow your examples, have no sovereignty over the 20 or so Arab countries outside of their original homeland/Country/Nation/Territory.  It should be given back to the indigenous people of those lands.
> 
> How are we going to accomplish that?
> 
> The more the Arab/Muslims have, the more they want.
> 
> Is it fair for the Arabs to have the 20% of the Jewish Homeland the Jews are now sovereign of, if the Arabs are not Jews, and it is not their territory?
Click to expand...




Dude you are exceptionally dense...the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms expired in the late 7th century...from that point on through history Arab/Palestinians have resided in overwhelming majority in historic Palestine...again your basic argument is with Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...David Ben Gurion...Menachem Begin...Moshe Dayan...etc...etc.  Think I'll go with their authority...LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...
Click to expand...

You mean like the piratical seizure by the Saudi Clan of Hashemite Land around the time of WWI?

Or the piratical seizure of all of TransJordan by the Hashemite Clan
post WWI?

Or the piratical seizure of Crimea by Russia?

Or the piratical seizure of Northern Cyprus by Turkey?

How many more piratical seizures are there which you do not give a darn about?

Only the "Zionist Pirates"  Oh, ho, ho


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A people" are the people inside a defined territory. ...
> 
> The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a criteria based on residence.  So the Jewish people who live in the defined territory are people of the place.  And the Arab Palestinians who no longer dwell within the territory are no longer people of the place and have no further rights?
> 
> Did you want to go with that?
Click to expand...




No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Christian, you well know that the Jewish Nation is regarded as a People.
> They are the original People, citizens of what was known as the region of Palestine, where their Nation - Israel - was situated.
> 
> The Jewish People were the sovereign ones from King David on, 3000 years ago with very defined "international" borders (although they were not called that at the time)
> 
> Losing sovereignty to invading conquerors does not make the Jewish Nation less of the rightful owner within its own territories, no matter how long a time has passed since they had any sovereignty over it.
> 
> Israel, is not asking to be sovereign over Gaza. Or Lebanon, or Jordan, or Egypt.
> Only over its own ancient land.  20 % of what was left after 78% was given to the Arabs, and another percent ended up also with Arabs, in Gaza.
> 
> Some percent is in Arab hands in Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria, known to be ancient Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Your examples keep being confused.
> 
> The Arabs, if we follow your examples, have no sovereignty over the 20 or so Arab countries outside of their original homeland/Country/Nation/Territory.  It should be given back to the indigenous people of those lands.
> 
> How are we going to accomplish that?
> 
> The more the Arab/Muslims have, the more they want.
> 
> Is it fair for the Arabs to have the 20% of the Jewish Homeland the Jews are now sovereign of, if the Arabs are not Jews, and it is not their territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude you are exceptionally dense...the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms expired in the late 7th century...from that point on through history Arab/Palestinians have resided in overwhelming majority in historic Palestine...again your basic argument is with Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...David Ben Gurion...Menachem Begin...Moshe Dayan...etc...etc.  Think I'll go with their authority...LOL
Click to expand...


History is not your forte


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...



All I am doing is confirming I understand Tinmore's belief system.  I haven't even got to the part yet where I point out his hypocrisy.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.
Click to expand...


As usual, you're just being silly. The various moslem colonists, Christian Crusaders and Mongol invaders all shared in the population churn that defined the geographic area of "Pal'istan". 

Why not promote the fraud that moslems have lived in "Pal'istan" for "thousands of years."  That's a good one.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
Click to expand...



Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I am doing is confirming I understand Tinmore's belief system.  I haven't even got to the part yet where I point out his hypocrisy.
Click to expand...




Maybe you could endeavor to point out your own hypocrisy?


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL



Okay.  So you are starting to build your criteria.  Residency grants rights.  Being ethnically cleansed (as the Jews were) removes rights.  

Did you want to go with that?


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I am doing is confirming I understand Tinmore's belief system.  I haven't even got to the part yet where I point out his hypocrisy.
Click to expand...


Been there, done that. It's called _The_ _Tinmore Vortex™
_


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Maybe you could endeavor to point out your own hypocrisy?



Shrug.  I have none.  The Jewish people have the same rights as all indigenous peoples.  The Arab Palestinian peoples have the same rights as all peoples of long tenure.  No hypocrisy.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean like the piratical seizure by the Saudi Clan of Hashemite Land around the time of WWI?
> 
> Or the piratical seizure of all of TransJordan by the Hashemite Clan
> post WWI?
> 
> Or the piratical seizure of Crimea by Russia?
> 
> Or the piratical seizure of Northern Cyprus by the Turkey?
> 
> How many more piratical seizures are there which you do not give a darn about?
> 
> Only the "Zionist Pirates"  Oh, ho, ho
Click to expand...



You seem to vacillate between two competing and irreconcilable narrative Goober: on the one hand you claim that Eastern European Jews had some fictive right ti invade and occupy Palestine...failing that angle you adopt a comparison-based argument...so far as I know there are no criminal occupations of a native people that share the specific details and basic character of the Israeli/Palestinian impasse...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
Click to expand...


Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.  So you are starting to build your criteria.  Residency grants rights.  Being ethnically cleansed (as the Jews were) removes rights.
> 
> Did you want to go with that?
Click to expand...



I'm still waiting for that proof you spoke of...could it be that you are full of shit Shusha?  Show me an absentee land claim which spans centuries okay? Then  topple Elhaik's proof that Israeli Jews are not Semites...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you could endeavor to point out your own hypocrisy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shrug.  I have none.  The Jewish people have the same rights as all indigenous peoples.  The Arab Palestinian peoples have the same rights as all peoples of long tenure.  No hypocrisy.
Click to expand...



Wrong again...the Jewish people were an ethnic minority in Palestine...they are not indigenous...once again post a document which proves your claim that Jews have a right to Palestine...


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> I'm still waiting for that proof you spoke of...could it be that you are full of shit Shusha?  Show me an absentee land claim which spans centuries okay?



I can not give you "proof" that will satisfy you until you provide your criteria for the rights of a people.  Why won't you answer a simple question?

You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).  So.  By your claim, ethnic cleansing leads to rights to the territory.  

I ask again -- did you want to go with that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you could endeavor to point out your own hypocrisy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shrug.  I have none.  The Jewish people have the same rights as all indigenous peoples.  The Arab Palestinian peoples have the same rights as all peoples of long tenure.  No hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...the Jewish people were an ethnic minority in Palestine...they are not indigenous...once again post a document which proves your claim that Jews have a right to Palestine...
Click to expand...

You mean, none of the three groups of Jews in Palestine?

The Ashkenazi, we understand you think they are Europeans.

But how about the Sepharadic group in Palestine?

And how about the Mizrahi group in Palestine?

Do they, or do they not have indigenous rights to the land?


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Wrong again...the Jewish people were an ethnic minority in Palestine...they are not indigenous...once again post a document which proves your claim that Jews have a right to Palestine...



Do indigenous peoples have rights to sovereignty and self-determination, yes or no?


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
Click to expand...


The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 

Look, you are just doing yet another variation on the same old trope which has been the cause of the conflict since day one.  Its the same tired canard that every anti-Israel/anti-Zionist/anti-semitic troll uses.

Indigenous peoples have rights to their homelands but the Jewish people of today have no connection to the Jewish people who have lived in that homeland for thousands of years.

or/and

The Jewish people once lived on that land, but they were successfully removed from that land (ethnically cleansed) and therefore no longer have rights to it.  


The former is just a silly, stupid, false argument.  The latter is a tragic support for invasion, colonialism and conquest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for that proof you spoke of...could it be that you are full of shit Shusha?  Show me an absentee land claim which spans centuries okay?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can not give you "proof" that will satisfy you until you provide your criteria for the rights of a people.  Why won't you answer a simple question?
> 
> You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).  So.  By your claim, ethnic cleansing leads to rights to the territory.
> 
> I ask again -- did you want to go with that?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).


I haven't seen any proof that those Jews from Europe were ethnically cleansed from Palestine thousands of years ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for that proof you spoke of...could it be that you are full of shit Shusha?  Show me an absentee land claim which spans centuries okay?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can not give you "proof" that will satisfy you until you provide your criteria for the rights of a people.  Why won't you answer a simple question?
> 
> You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).  So.  By your claim, ethnic cleansing leads to rights to the territory.
> 
> I ask again -- did you want to go with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't seen any proof that those Jews from Europe were ethnically cleansed from Palestine thousands of years ago.
Click to expand...

History is not your forte, either


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I haven't seen any proof that those Jews from Europe were ethnically cleansed from Palestine thousands of years ago.



But if they were....they would have rights to self-determination and sovereignty on their ancestral and historical lands, right?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.



Sure.  With all the rights this entails -- including the right to self-determination and sovereignty.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
Click to expand...

One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.

Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .

Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.

Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
They were not called Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

_This is Not a Border_ is an anthology of writing that celebrates the 10th anniversary of the Palestine Festival of Literature, or PalFest – a “cultural roadshow” which was established in 2008. Since then, the annual week-long event has brought about 200 authors and industry professionals to both the occupied West Bank and, in some years, the Gaza Strip.

"Cold violence" in Palestine


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> _This is Not a Border_ is an anthology of writing that celebrates the 10th anniversary of the Palestine Festival of Literature, or PalFest – a “cultural roadshow” which was established in 2008. Since then, the annual week-long event has brought about 200 authors and industry professionals to both the occupied West Bank and, in some years, the Gaza Strip.
> 
> "Cold violence" in Palestine


Have you got any such Palestinian Festivals pre WWI ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> _This is Not a Border_ is an anthology of writing that celebrates the 10th anniversary of the Palestine Festival of Literature, or PalFest – a “cultural roadshow” which was established in 2008. Since then, the annual week-long event has brought about 200 authors and industry professionals to both the occupied West Bank and, in some years, the Gaza Strip.
> 
> "Cold violence" in Palestine


How about a Palestinian Festival between 1948 and 1967 when Egypt and Jordan controlled Gaza and Judea and Samaria?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.


The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
http://bcrfj.revues.org/6405


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...

This is PAPER written by an Arab Muslim or Christian.
It is not the legal documents from the Mandates.
You have shown this PAPER once before.

The purpose of the name Palestine was only for the Mandate, with the Jewish People free to chose their own name for their country once it was approved by the UN.

As late as 1947 the Arabs were still referring to themselves as part of Greater Syria, with no intention of calling themselves Palestinians, as imposed on them and the Jews by the British.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mandatory Palestine's citizenship and the various means of obtaining it was defined in an Order in Council of 24 July 1925.[4] Turkish subjects habitually resident in Palestine (excluding Transjordan) on the first day of August 1925 automatically became citizens unless they opted to reject it.[4] Many other classes of people were able to apply for citizenship, which would be granted at the discretion of the High Commissioner.[4] An ordinance allowing the High Commissioner to issue passports to Mandatory Palestine's citizens was promulgated soon afterwards.[5]

(full article online)

Mandatory Palestine passport - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is PAPER written by an Arab Muslim or Christian.
> It is not the legal documents from the Mandates.
> You have shown this PAPER once before.
> 
> The purpose of the name Palestine was only for the Mandate, with the Jewish People free to chose their own name for their country once it was approved by the UN.
> 
> As late as 1947 the Arabs were still referring to themselves as part of Greater Syria, with no intention of calling themselves Palestinians, as imposed on them and the Jews by the British.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> The purpose of the name Palestine was only for the Mandate, with the Jewish People free to chose their own name for their country once it was approved by the UN.


Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...


Your befuddlement regarding the above has been addressed repeatedly. Why are you still befuddled?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your befuddlement regarding the above has been addressed repeatedly. Why are you still befuddled?
Click to expand...

Deflections do not address anything.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your befuddlement regarding the above has been addressed repeatedly. Why are you still befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflections do not address anything.
Click to expand...


So why are you deflecting? You know your befuddlement has been addressed yet you continually cut and paste a single sentence knowing full well you’re promoting a lie.

Why so dishonest when your dishonesty has been exposed many time before?


----------



## Sixties Fan

While, as noted above, the Guardian headline did aptly call it a tunnel FROM Gaza, rather than leaving the reader to think that perhaps the tunnel destroyed was IN Gaza, their subhead seems to question whether or not the land underneath Israel in fact belongs to Israel when they wrote that Israel “called” the tunnel constructed under it a ‘violation of Israeli sovereignty’ and put this phrase in inverted commas as shown here.

I am not sure if any news media aside from Times of Israel (TOI) made it clear that the tunnel demolition was carried out on the Israeli side of the border. TOI leaves no room for doubt:

The Israeli operation was certainly justified.  The demolition of the terror attack tunnel was carried out inside Israeli territory — showing clearly that the tunnel was an act of aggression by the Islamic Jihad terror organization, which dug into Israel with the goal of carrying out a terror attack at some point.

The Palestinian deaths and injuries occurred because the resultant cave-in stretched the length of the tunnel, hurting those who were in the tunnel on the Gaza side of the border. Reuters made no hint of this here.

(full article online)

Reuters’ Biased Neutrality: Israel Made Them Do It - Israel Diaries


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore,, _et al,_

There is a good reason for that.



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Although the name "PALESTINE" _(or its variants)_ has been around a very long time, it has never been associated with a "self-governing institution."

✪  If you define "Palestinians" as a culture and a people, that is fine - all well and good.  That is like saying "Bedouins."  But as you know, you can be a "Bedouin" and not be in a "self-governing"  nation state of "Bedu."  Up and until 1988 the ⇒ "Palestinians" had a NO single voice for the culture or the people.  And the "State of Palestine" (such that it is) did not become a potential "self-governing institution" until December 2012 (A/RES/67/19).  And even that determination is questionable.​
"Palestine," a name not further defined, is not geographically defined.  However, the "Palestine you are alluding to is the "Palestine" as determined by the Allied Powers; --- or ---  the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as "Palestine."  _(See the Order in Council 1922)_

✪ Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E._ (See as an example:  Report to the Administration of Palestine 1936)_​
In the post-War (WWI - The Great War) Political Conditions and Environment, the Allied Powers, which had effective control anyway, did not see the need for anything further, until such time that a self-governing institution was released from the Mandate.  Similarly, the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement (1919) made it pretty clear (Article I) that "The *Arab State and Palestine* in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by _the most cordial goodwill and understanding_ and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in their respective territories."  There was no misunderstanding as to the allocation of territory.  Things *(politically and confrontationally)* were never meant to get out of hand in the way they have today.  The leaders of the day _(whether ally or opponent)_ demonstrated a level of quality and personal refinement — displaying good taste, wisdom and subtlety rather than crudeness, stupidity and vulgarity that we see today.  In the perception of of the Israeli and the Arab Palestinians

While opponents today might argue over the territorial boundaries, in the era of the Balfour Declaration, there was no need to nick-pick every word and sentence.  They understood one another - and - the intentions and aspirations of each.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

See USMB Posting #8301



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.  

✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?

✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:

*ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*

Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is PAPER written by an Arab Muslim or Christian.
> It is not the legal documents from the Mandates.
> You have shown this PAPER once before.
> 
> The purpose of the name Palestine was only for the Mandate, with the Jewish People free to chose their own name for their country once it was approved by the UN.
> 
> As late as 1947 the Arabs were still referring to themselves as part of Greater Syria, with no intention of calling themselves Palestinians, as imposed on them and the Jews by the British.
Click to expand...


Good God your bristling, smug ignorance seems to have no limits...A 'Jewish nation' was not 'approved by the UN' you mindless propaganda-parrot: The UN sponsored a non-binding recommendation for partition which could not be implemented unless all involved parties agreed to its design...to the extent that this ( proposal ) granted 56% of Palestinian territory to a Jewish minority who legally owned less than 5% of the land the Arab States and India voted it down, therein setting the stage for a scrupulously planned Zionist terror-offensive and ethnic-cleansing campaign...Palestinians never referred to themselves as part of 'greater Syrian' or 'Jordanians' or any of the spate of puerile lies you scavengers spout here...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Mandatory Palestine's citizenship and the various means of obtaining it was defined in an Order in Council of 24 July 1925.[4] Turkish subjects habitually resident in Palestine (excluding Transjordan) on the first day of August 1925 automatically became citizens unless they opted to reject it.[4] Many other classes of people were able to apply for citizenship, which would be granted at the discretion of the High Commissioner.[4] An ordinance allowing the High Commissioner to issue passports to Mandatory Palestine's citizens was promulgated soon afterwards.[5]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Mandatory Palestine passport - Wikipedia




LOL...hate to break this to you but Wikipedia is not an academically valid source...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
Click to expand...



Pardon, but this central pillar of Zionist propaganda is cobwebbed and completely dead...Historic Palestine was a Colonial-Protectorate for most of its history, this semantic qualification made its majority population no less Arabic, and their 13 century residency right no less valid...Israel never existed as a 'nation' because that dispensation did not exist 3000 years ago fool...try actual education instead of spoon-fed  Zionist lies...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for that proof you spoke of...could it be that you are full of shit Shusha?  Show me an absentee land claim which spans centuries okay?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can not give you "proof" that will satisfy you until you provide your criteria for the rights of a people.  Why won't you answer a simple question?
> 
> You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).  So.  By your claim, ethnic cleansing leads to rights to the territory.
> 
> I ask again -- did you want to go with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are claiming, as did Tinmore, that the rights to a place are based on presence in the land (ie that "absentee's no longer have claims).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't seen any proof that those Jews from Europe were ethnically cleansed from Palestine thousands of years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History is not your forte, either
Click to expand...



Wrong again zipper-head...I majored in history and have most likely forgotten more of the relevant details than a mindless propaganda parrot like you is ever likely to acquire...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77
> 
> Look, you are just doing yet another variation on the same old trope which has been the cause of the conflict since day one.  Its the same tired canard that every anti-Israel/anti-Zionist/anti-semitic troll uses.
> 
> Indigenous peoples have rights to their homelands but the Jewish people of today have no connection to the Jewish people who have lived in that homeland for thousands of years.
> 
> or/and
> 
> The Jewish people once lived on that land, but they were successfully removed from that land (ethnically cleansed) and therefore no longer have rights to it.
> 
> 
> The former is just a silly, stupid, false argument.  The latter is a tragic support for invasion, colonialism and conquest.




Try to focus your propaganda-saturated brain for several seconds of clarity---if that is at all possible: you wrongly claimed that Jews have rights to Palestinian land...I demanded that you put up proof of this claim and you have yet to satisfy that demand because we both know its horseshit!!! You dodge the question and scatter out in futile circles of lies, distortions and standardized Zionist propaganda...Eastern European Jews have zero claim to one square foot of Palestinian territory...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
Click to expand...



Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
Click to expand...

Tinmore,

There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.

There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.

The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.

The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.

The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.

There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.

Not even today.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
Click to expand...

Link???

To :

"the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."

Which historian wrote that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
Click to expand...

Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
Click to expand...




Once more for the determined F-student: Palestine was correctly a Colonial-Protectorate for most of its history, that semantic qualification made its vast majority population no less Arabic and their 13 century residency rights no less valid...you cannot extinguish the history of historic Palestine through the mock prism of Zionist historical revision...there was never a nation called Israel, and when pre-state Zionist leaders conspired to seize and occupy this territory what name do you imagine they employed---that's right PALESTINE...your argument is with them dumbo


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
Click to expand...



are you honestly this ignorant???


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> 
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
Click to expand...

Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?


----------



## Ventura77

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
Click to expand...





The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.


World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
Click to expand...

YES, I  CONFESS !!!!!

I AM THAT IGNORANT


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
Click to expand...




A curious demand from someone who posts lies and propaganda which cannot be proven...if no one has taken the academic patience to correct your historical ignorance I pity you...there was never a nation/state of Israel...it was a kingdom and today's Jews have zero connection to it...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YES, I  CONFESS !!!!!
> 
> I AM THAT IGNORANT
Click to expand...



Indeed you are, a concomitant of posting toxic lies and Zionist propaganda I should think...go back to school


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Ahhhhhh
That is where the problem is, professor.

YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.

Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
Look it up.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
Click to expand...



Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A curious demand from someone who posts lies and propaganda which cannot be proven...if no one has taken the academic patience to correct your historical ignorance I pity you...there was never a nation/state of Israel...it was a kingdom and today's Jews have zero connection to it...
Click to expand...

Come on !!!!

There is historical evidence of Jewish constant presence on their ancient land.

Are you to tell me that there are no Crusaders, Ottoman, British, American, German, documents, books, records of any kind where a Nation, Country, Caliphate of Palestine is mentioned?
No King, Monarch, Caliph, head of that Nation, State, Caliphate, Country can be found?

Not even in the 19th Century?
How about just before WWI?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> 
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
Click to expand...


Palestine as a region is different from a Palestine where there was a Nation, there were Kings, etc, there was a government, infrastructure, history of dealings with other Nations.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine as a region is different from a Palestine where there was a Nation, there were Kings, etc, there was a government, infrastructure, history of dealings with other Nations.
Click to expand...




Once yet again you are consciously lost in semantics...Palestine was a 'Colonial-Protectorate under Ottoman and subsequent British colonial authorities---neither of these authorities imposed demographic shifts to the majority Arab population...you cannot erase the history of Palestine...bear in mind that there is no record of a 'nation' of Israel because nations did not exist...HELLLLOOOOOOO


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A curious demand from someone who posts lies and propaganda which cannot be proven...if no one has taken the academic patience to correct your historical ignorance I pity you...there was never a nation/state of Israel...it was a kingdom and today's Jews have zero connection to it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come on !!!!
> 
> There is historical evidence of Jewish constant presence on their ancient land.
> 
> Are you to tell me that there are no Crusaders, Ottoman, British, American, German, documents, books, records of any kind where a Nation, Country, Caliphate of Palestine is mentioned?
> No King, Monarch, Caliph, head of that Nation, State, Caliphate, Country can be found?
> 
> Not even in the 19th Century?
> How about just before WWI?
Click to expand...



No actually there isn't...after Palestine was completely 'Arabized' by the late 7th century the ancient Jewish tribes had immigrated toward Persia...in the 16th century a trickle of ARABIZED Jews settled in East Jerusalem, against a vast majority Arab population...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine as a region is different from a Palestine where there was a Nation, there were Kings, etc, there was a government, infrastructure, history of dealings with other Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you are consciously lost in semantics...Palestine was a 'Colonial-Protectorate under Ottoman and subsequent British colonial authorities---neither of these authorities imposed demographic shifts to the majority Arab population...you cannot erase the history of Palestine...bear in mind that there is no record of a 'nation' of Israel because nations did not exist...HELLLLOOOOOOO
Click to expand...

That is not what I wrote, professor.

You mentioned the Nation of Israel/Judea in the 7th Century BCE

As you yourself put it, A Nation of Israel did exist.  Even if it split into two and the Greeks and Romans dealt with the Nation of Judea, that Nation is still the same one, with Kings, infrastructure, culture, trading, etc, etc.

I will ask again, where are the historical documents, any at all, which will show that there was a NATION called Palestine which had dealings with all other Nations up until WWI ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A curious demand from someone who posts lies and propaganda which cannot be proven...if no one has taken the academic patience to correct your historical ignorance I pity you...there was never a nation/state of Israel...it was a kingdom and today's Jews have zero connection to it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come on !!!!
> 
> There is historical evidence of Jewish constant presence on their ancient land.
> 
> Are you to tell me that there are no Crusaders, Ottoman, British, American, German, documents, books, records of any kind where a Nation, Country, Caliphate of Palestine is mentioned?
> No King, Monarch, Caliph, head of that Nation, State, Caliphate, Country can be found?
> 
> Not even in the 19th Century?
> How about just before WWI?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No actually there isn't...after Palestine was completely 'Arabized' by the late 7th century the ancient Jewish tribes had immigrated toward Persia...in the 16th century a trickle of ARABIZED Jews settled in East Jerusalem, against a vast majority Arab population...
Click to expand...

Link?
What is your source?  
And why do you hide your sources?

Arabized, does not mean losing one's identity.  They did not become Muslims and began to follow Islam, therefore wiping out all Judaism from the land.

Sources, professor.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A curious demand from someone who posts lies and propaganda which cannot be proven...if no one has taken the academic patience to correct your historical ignorance I pity you...there was never a nation/state of Israel...it was a kingdom and today's Jews have zero connection to it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come on !!!!
> 
> There is historical evidence of Jewish constant presence on their ancient land.
> 
> Are you to tell me that there are no Crusaders, Ottoman, British, American, German, documents, books, records of any kind where a Nation, Country, Caliphate of Palestine is mentioned?
> No King, Monarch, Caliph, head of that Nation, State, Caliphate, Country can be found?
> 
> Not even in the 19th Century?
> How about just before WWI?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No actually there isn't...after Palestine was completely 'Arabized' by the late 7th century the ancient Jewish tribes had immigrated toward Persia...in the 16th century a trickle of ARABIZED Jews settled in East Jerusalem, against a vast majority Arab population...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> What is your source?
> And why do you hide your sources?
> 
> Arabized, does not mean losing one's identity.  They did not become Muslims and began to follow Islam, therefore wiping out all Judaism from the land.
> 
> Sources, professor.
Click to expand...




I already posted a source low-brow...thus far I've exposed all of your mindless lies...to recap: eastern European Jews had zero claim to Palestine...alert me when this immutable fact registers F-student


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine as a region is different from a Palestine where there was a Nation, there were Kings, etc, there was a government, infrastructure, history of dealings with other Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you are consciously lost in semantics...Palestine was a 'Colonial-Protectorate under Ottoman and subsequent British colonial authorities---neither of these authorities imposed demographic shifts to the majority Arab population...you cannot erase the history of Palestine...bear in mind that there is no record of a 'nation' of Israel because nations did not exist...HELLLLOOOOOOO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what I wrote, professor.
> 
> You mentioned the Nation of Israel/Judea in the 7th Century BCE
> 
> As you yourself put it, A Nation of Israel did exist.  Even if it split into two and the Greeks and Romans dealt with the Nation of Judea, that Nation is still the same one, with Kings, infrastructure, culture, trading, etc, etc.
> 
> I will ask again, where are the historical documents, any at all, which will show that there was a NATION called Palestine which had dealings with all other Nations up until WWI ?
Click to expand...




Wow you are truly dense aren't you? I've already stated repeatedly that one cannot apply 'nation/state' criteria to a Colonial-Protectorate...this is really becoming a bore...your primary problem is that you cannot successfully lie Palestinian history away...bye bye F-student


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine as a region is different from a Palestine where there was a Nation, there were Kings, etc, there was a government, infrastructure, history of dealings with other Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you are consciously lost in semantics...Palestine was a 'Colonial-Protectorate under Ottoman and subsequent British colonial authorities---neither of these authorities imposed demographic shifts to the majority Arab population...you cannot erase the history of Palestine...bear in mind that there is no record of a 'nation' of Israel because nations did not exist...HELLLLOOOOOOO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what I wrote, professor.
> 
> You mentioned the Nation of Israel/Judea in the 7th Century BCE
> 
> As you yourself put it, A Nation of Israel did exist.  Even if it split into two and the Greeks and Romans dealt with the Nation of Judea, that Nation is still the same one, with Kings, infrastructure, culture, trading, etc, etc.
> 
> I will ask again, where are the historical documents, any at all, which will show that there was a NATION called Palestine which had dealings with all other Nations up until WWI ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you are truly dense aren't you? I've already stated repeatedly that one cannot apply 'nation/state' criteria to a Colonial-Protectorate...this is really becoming a bore...your primary problem is that you cannot successfully lie Palestinian history away...bye bye F-student
Click to expand...

But, but .....professor, your link led to a site with maps.  Where is the page where it shows that the Jews had moved to Persia in the 7th century or either BCE or CE?

How could all the Jews be gone from their homeland and only returned in the 16th century, and Arabized, if the Crusaders found many of them on the land in the 10th Century living amongst the Muslims, especially in Jerusalem at that time?

Is that what is written in the link you gave, because it was not a direct link to what you were saying, professor, and I do not know those people to want to click on anything, know what I mean?

Where did those Jews come from ?
And whether they spoke Arabic or any other language, were they still not Jews, who continued to follow Judaism?

Professor?

Could you change my grade, please?

Maybe to a  G - Weez?

Hello, Professor.......!!!!!!


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong yet again: the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century...from that time on up to the mid-20th century the vast majority of residents were Arab/Palestinians and no onslaught of Jewish lies and historical revision can alter that truth...
> 
> 
> 
> Link???
> 
> To :
> 
> "the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms fragmented and vanished in the late period of the 7th century."
> 
> Which historian wrote that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you honestly this ignorant???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The destruction of the kingdom of Israel had a deep impact on the kingdom of Judah. A stream of refugees from Israel flooded into the kingdom, boosting its population. In the 7th century, Jerusalem expanded dramatically. However, Judah was now the only Israelite kingdom left, surrounded entirely by pagan peoples. Perhaps because of this, the rulers of Judah tended to emphasise the worship of Yahweh as a central part of their political programme. A state-sponsored religious reform movement culminated in the reign of king Josiah (reigned 641-609 BCE), which centred the religious life of Judah much more firmly on the Temple in Jerusalem, and called for a greater degree of obedience from the people to the faith’s teachings.
> 
> 
> World History Timeline The FREE atlas of world history › Encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhhh
> That is where the problem is, professor.
> 
> YOU did not mention BCE or CE to differentiate which 7th Century you were speaking of.
> 
> Either way, you are wrong.  There were other Monarchies after that.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
Click to expand...


It’s always underwhelming when you screech about your alleged sources being “widely available”. Oddly, on those rare occassions when you do provide a source, that source links to one or more of the most notoriously silly blogs on the web. Do you really consider a Flat Earth Society groupie as a reputable source?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
Click to expand...

Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
Click to expand...

Dear Tinmore,

Please, 

Before WWI

Before the Mandates came to be.

Thank you.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO I am not wrong low-brow...the information I am referring to is widely available...just as the documented and rich history of Palestine is easily explored...to mount a proposition that Palestine never existed is the motivation of a rank fool...surely you meet the qualification...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine as a region is different from a Palestine where there was a Nation, there were Kings, etc, there was a government, infrastructure, history of dealings with other Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once yet again you are consciously lost in semantics...Palestine was a 'Colonial-Protectorate under Ottoman and subsequent British colonial authorities---neither of these authorities imposed demographic shifts to the majority Arab population...you cannot erase the history of Palestine...bear in mind that there is no record of a 'nation' of Israel because nations did not exist...HELLLLOOOOOOO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what I wrote, professor.
> 
> You mentioned the Nation of Israel/Judea in the 7th Century BCE
> 
> As you yourself put it, A Nation of Israel did exist.  Even if it split into two and the Greeks and Romans dealt with the Nation of Judea, that Nation is still the same one, with Kings, infrastructure, culture, trading, etc, etc.
> 
> I will ask again, where are the historical documents, any at all, which will show that there was a NATION called Palestine which had dealings with all other Nations up until WWI ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you are truly dense aren't you? I've already stated repeatedly that one cannot apply 'nation/state' criteria to a Colonial-Protectorate...this is really becoming a bore...your primary problem is that you cannot successfully lie Palestinian history away...bye bye F-student
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, but .....professor, your link led to a site with maps.  Where is the page where it shows that the Jews had moved to Persia in the 7th century or either BCE or CE?
> 
> How could all the Jews be gone from their homeland and only returned in the 16th century, and Arabized, if the Crusaders found many of them on the land in the 10th Century living amongst the Muslims, especially in Jerusalem at that time?
> 
> Is that what is written in the link you gave, because it was not a direct link to what you were saying, professor, and I do not know those people to want to click on anything, know what I mean?
> 
> Where did those Jews come from ?
> And whether they spoke Arabic or any other language, were they still not Jews, who continued to follow Judaism?
> 
> Professor?
> 
> Could you change my grade, please?
> 
> Maybe to a  G - Weez?
> 
> Hello, Professor.......!!!!!!
Click to expand...




ROTFLMAO...now I am expected to fill in the critical history for someone entirely devoted to altering it? Face the fact that you spout scripted lies the invalidity of which you can scarcely comprehend...for perhaps the four-dozenth time: you argument is with the public statements of intent by leading pre-state Zionists...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dear Tinmore,
> 
> Please,
> 
> Before WWI
> 
> Before the Mandates came to be.
> 
> Thank you.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
Click to expand...


Here we go with another occurrence of _The Tinmore Vortex_™


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go with another occurrence of _The Tinmore Vortex_™
Click to expand...



As previously observed, why indeed does someone of your obvious intellectual disadvantages post comments here?  Invariably the sum of your posts are nothing more than awkwardly sarcastic jabs or simple-minded attack positions...you cannot appear to conduct anything which might approach an academic exchange, refute any post that you dispute or essentially satisfy anything but your own idiotic impulse to demonstrate how dumb you are...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore,
> 
> There was NO State of Palestine, not Kingdom of Palestine, No Caliphate of Palestine, there was no Nation of Palestine, there was no Country of Palestine.
> 
> There was a region sometimes called Palestine where the only Nation
> which ever existed on it for over a thousand years, was the Jewish Nation called Israel or Judah/Judea.
> 
> The territory was ceded to the Jews to recreate their Nation ON the land where their ancient Nation had been.
> 
> The British CHOSE the name Palestine for the Mandate for the Mandate for the same reason the Romans had done it.  To insult the Jews.
> 
> The British government continued to show how much they cared for a creation of a State for the Jews when they began to expel Jews from Gaza, did not put down the riots, did not arrest Al-Husseini, came up with the White Paper, and began to restrict immigration of Jews to their own ancient homeland.
> 
> There was never a State, Nation, Country, Caliphate, Empire, Monarchy, etc named Palestine.
> 
> Not even today.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go with another occurrence of _The Tinmore Vortex_™
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As previously observed, why indeed does someone of your obvious intellectual disadvantages post comments here?  Invariably the sum of your posts are nothing more than awkwardly sarcastic jabs or simple-minded attack positions...you cannot appear to conduct anything which might approach an academic exchange, refute any post that you dispute or essentially satisfy anything but your own idiotic impulse to demonstrate how dumb you are...
Click to expand...


Another of your pointless tirades. 

I expected your failure to address an utter lack of credibility with your links to Flat Earth groupies. 

Would you like to entertain us with more links to “failedmessiah.com”?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_

No, that is 100% incorrect.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Nothing was promised to, ⇒ or given to, ⇒ or transferred to, anyone other than the Allied Powers. 

Palestine was not a party to:

•  The Armistice of Mudros, where the Ottoman Empire Surrendered to the Allied Powers.
•  The Treaty of Severs, where the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic signed,
•  The Treaty of Lausanne, where the Republic of Turkey signed.​
In fact, Palestine was not even mentioned in the Treaty of Lausanne _(like it was in the Treaty of Sevres)_.

I know that, by means of extrapolation, that many Palestinians cling to Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne, as some sort of life-line to a _de facto_ statehood.  That is simply not the case.  Article 16 is in Section I - Territorial Clauses; whereas Article 30 is no Section II - Nationality Clauses.

"You can be a Bedouin - and not be a citizen of someplace called Bedo..."​That has to do with the the relatively new concept of the control in "stateless refugees" _(but that is another story for another time)_.  Those people that lived in the territory that the Allied Powers finally determined were in the British Mandate side of the Sykes-Picot Treaty Line, would be granted citizenship ship under the responsibility of the Mandatory _(Great Britain)_.  This was Covered in several documents beginning with the Election Order in Council and the Palestine Order in Council, and the Citizenship Order.

The Allied Powers who wrote the Treaty of Lausanne, never intended the Treaty if interfere in the post-War Civil Administration of the territory.  It is not a case of the left-hand not knowing what the right-hand was doing; nor a case of rival administrators.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you have no proof for all that horseshit, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go with another occurrence of _The Tinmore Vortex_™
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As previously observed, why indeed does someone of your obvious intellectual disadvantages post comments here?  Invariably the sum of your posts are nothing more than awkwardly sarcastic jabs or simple-minded attack positions...you cannot appear to conduct anything which might approach an academic exchange, refute any post that you dispute or essentially satisfy anything but your own idiotic impulse to demonstrate how dumb you are...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your pointless tirades.
> 
> I expected your failure to address an utter lack of credibility with your links to Flat Earth groupies.
> 
> Would you like to entertain us with more links to “failedmessiah.com”?
Click to expand...



Sincere thanks for basically proving my very point...this level of cooperation is indeed a rarity


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have proof of any of those I mentioned above?
> Capital, currency, Caliph, Kings, Emperors, etc, etc
> Documents and historians mentioning any of the above?
> 
> 
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go with another occurrence of _The Tinmore Vortex_™
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As previously observed, why indeed does someone of your obvious intellectual disadvantages post comments here?  Invariably the sum of your posts are nothing more than awkwardly sarcastic jabs or simple-minded attack positions...you cannot appear to conduct anything which might approach an academic exchange, refute any post that you dispute or essentially satisfy anything but your own idiotic impulse to demonstrate how dumb you are...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your pointless tirades.
> 
> I expected your failure to address an utter lack of credibility with your links to Flat Earth groupies.
> 
> Would you like to entertain us with more links to “failedmessiah.com”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sincere thanks for basically proving my very point...this level of cooperation is indeed a rarity
Click to expand...


Thanks for another pointless tirade. Your cooperation was expected.

Do you have more entertaining links to “failedmessiah.com”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> No, that is 100% incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but there has never been a treaty or agreement to alter Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Nothing was promised to, ⇒ or given to, ⇒ or transferred to, anyone other than the Allied Powers.
> 
> Palestine was not a party to:
> 
> •  The Armistice of Mudros, where the Ottoman Empire Surrendered to the Allied Powers.
> •  The Treaty of Severs, where the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic signed,
> •  The Treaty of Lausanne, where the Republic of Turkey signed.​
> In fact, Palestine was not even mentioned in the Treaty of Lausanne _(like it was in the Treaty of Sevres)_.
> 
> I know that, by means of extrapolation, that many Palestinians cling to Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne, as some sort of life-line to a _de facto_ statehood.  That is simply not the case.  Article 16 is in Section I - Territorial Clauses; whereas Article 30 is no Section II - Nationality Clauses.
> 
> "You can be a Bedouin - and not be a citizen of someplace called Bedo..."​That has to do with the the relatively new concept of the control in "stateless refugees" _(but that is another story for another time)_.  Those people that lived in the territory that the Allied Powers finally determined were in the British Mandate side of the Sykes-Picot Treaty Line, would be granted citizenship ship under the responsibility of the Mandatory _(Great Britain)_.  This was Covered in several documents beginning with the Election Order in Council and the Palestine Order in Council, and the Citizenship Order.
> 
> The Allied Powers who wrote the Treaty of Lausanne, never intended the Treaty if interfere in the post-War Civil Administration of the territory.  It is not a case of the left-hand not knowing what the right-hand was doing; nor a case of rival administrators.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is funny to watch you grasp at straws.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> No, that is 100% incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  >  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> See USMB Posting #8301
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.
> 
> 
> 
> None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Allied Powers that set the borders and boundaries to begin with.  The designer which can make a thing can alter and change a thing.
> 
> ✪  Who had the voice that could countermand the decisions made by the "Allied Powers" that dismantled the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> ✪  What is the authority of your voice that can insist that the "Allied Powers" had no authority?​
> The "Allied Powers" of the Great War, who defeated the Ottoman Empire and the Army of the Turkish Republic, where the very same powers that accepted:
> 
> *ARTICLE 16* ⇒ *Treaty of Lausanne*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces _*all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty*_ and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​
> The Allied Powers had all the authority they needed through battlefield victories and treaty negotiations to set the future of the territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but the territory was ceded to the state of Palestine (not the Mandate) where the Palestinians became the citizens. The Palestinians were the sovereigns of the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Nothing was promised to, ⇒ or given to, ⇒ or transferred to, anyone other than the Allied Powers.
> 
> Palestine was not a party to:
> 
> •  The Armistice of Mudros, where the Ottoman Empire Surrendered to the Allied Powers.
> •  The Treaty of Severs, where the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic signed,
> •  The Treaty of Lausanne, where the Republic of Turkey signed.​
> In fact, Palestine was not even mentioned in the Treaty of Lausanne _(like it was in the Treaty of Sevres)_.
> 
> I know that, by means of extrapolation, that many Palestinians cling to Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne, as some sort of life-line to a _de facto_ statehood.  That is simply not the case.  Article 16 is in Section I - Territorial Clauses; whereas Article 30 is no Section II - Nationality Clauses.
> 
> "You can be a Bedouin - and not be a citizen of someplace called Bedo..."​That has to do with the the relatively new concept of the control in "stateless refugees" _(but that is another story for another time)_.  Those people that lived in the territory that the Allied Powers finally determined were in the British Mandate side of the Sykes-Picot Treaty Line, would be granted citizenship ship under the responsibility of the Mandatory _(Great Britain)_.  This was Covered in several documents beginning with the Election Order in Council and the Palestine Order in Council, and the Citizenship Order.
> 
> The Allied Powers who wrote the Treaty of Lausanne, never intended the Treaty if interfere in the post-War Civil Administration of the territory.  It is not a case of the left-hand not knowing what the right-hand was doing; nor a case of rival administrators.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is funny to watch you grasp at straws.
Click to expand...


I found it to be a logical connection of supported data.

Your non-response, on the other hand, was a retreat to irrelevance.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...you wrongly claimed that Jews have rights to Palestinian land...I demanded that you put up proof of this claim and you have yet to satisfy that demand because we both know its horseshit!!!



I believe that indigenous and long-resident people have the right to self-determination and sovereignty. International law supports this concept.  This is evident in existence of nations such as the Czech Republic and Slovakia.  Of Serbia and Bosnia and Montenegro and and Croatia and Macedonia and Slovenia.  It is evident in the struggles of the Catalans and the Kurds and the Cypriots.  And in the votes which took place in Quebec and in Scotland. Its a simple concept.

Further it is self-evident that the Jewish people's ancestral and historical and religious homeland is in Israel and Judea and Samaria.  It is beyond ridiculous to claim otherwise. 


Neither of these concepts require "proof".  What proof would you give for the right of the Catalans to independence, self-determination and sovereignty from Spain?  What proof would you give for the right of the Arab Palestinian people to independence, self-determination and sovereignty from Jordan or Syria?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil



I don't think you are going to like this line of argument that you are going down. (But I do).

IF the 1923 Treay of Lausanne detached actually existing states from Turkey and those states came into existence at that time -- then Israel has been a State for the Jewish people since 1923.  Your argument that there was no intent for a state to be formed, despite Articles 4 and 11 of the Palestine Mandate in particular, is blown to bits by your own insistence that not only was a state intended -- a state was actually created in 1923. 

It was a State for the Jewish people, governed by the Jewish people.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you are going to like this line of argument that you are going down. (But I do).
> 
> IF the 1923 Treay of Lausanne detached actually existing states from Turkey and those states came into existence at that time -- then Israel has been a State for the Jewish people since 1923.  Your argument that there was no intent for a state to be formed, despite Articles 4 and 11 of the Palestine Mandate in particular, is blown to bits by your own insistence that not only was a state intended -- a state was actually created in 1923.
> 
> It was a State for the Jewish people, governed by the Jewish people.
Click to expand...



how interesting, because in 1919--a mere 3 years prior to your state estimation---the Arab population of historic Palestine approached nearly one-million, with a Jewish minority of less than 100,000...following your criterion for statehood the Chinese minority in the Philippines are entitled to establish a state of their own...LOL


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ..following your criterion for statehood the Chinese minority in the Philippines are entitled to establish a state of their own..



And your problem with that is what, exactly?  If the Chinese minority in the Phillippines were significantly distinct from the Chinese in China and wished to have independence and self-determination and sovereignty -- why shouldn't they have it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I. The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you are going to like this line of argument that you are going down. (But I do).
> 
> IF the 1923 Treay of Lausanne detached actually existing states from Turkey and those states came into existence at that time -- then Israel has been a State for the Jewish people since 1923.  Your argument that there was no intent for a state to be formed, despite Articles 4 and 11 of the Palestine Mandate in particular, is blown to bits by your own insistence that not only was a state intended -- a state was actually created in 1923.
> 
> It was a State for the Jewish people, governed by the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

Can you document that assertion?


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...you wrongly claimed that Jews have rights to Palestinian land...I demanded that you put up proof of this claim and you have yet to satisfy that demand because we both know its horseshit!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that indigenous and long-resident people have the right to self-determination and sovereignty. International law supports this concept.  This is evident in existence of nations such as the Czech Republic and Slovakia.  Of Serbia and Bosnia and Montenegro and and Croatia and Macedonia and Slovenia.  It is evident in the struggles of the Catalans and the Kurds and the Cypriots.  And in the votes which took place in Quebec and in Scotland. Its a simple concept.
> 
> Further it is self-evident that the Jewish people's ancestral and historical and religious homeland is in Israel and Judea and Samaria.  It is beyond ridiculous to claim otherwise.
> 
> 
> Neither of these concepts require "proof".  What proof would you give for the right of the Catalans to independence, self-determination and sovereignty from Spain?  What proof would you give for the right of the Arab Palestinian people to independence, self-determination and sovereignty from Jordan or Syria?
Click to expand...




"Further it is self-evident that the Jewish people's ancestral and historical and religious homeland is in Israel and Judea and Samaria. It is beyond ridiculous to claim otherwise. "

LMFAO!!!!!  Apparently we are supposed to consent to nothing beyond your opinion that any adjustment to this sentence is axiomatically 'ridiculous'...see if you can fit 'self-evident' into a framework for legal reference?  As previously explained to the point of futility the Eastern European Jews---direct descendants of Khazar-converts to Judaism-- have zero legal or ethical  claim to historic Palestine...if you believe otherwise present your putative proof of this fictive right or concede your inability to do so...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..following your criterion for statehood the Chinese minority in the Philippines are entitled to establish a state of their own..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your problem with that is what, exactly?  If the Chinese minority in the Phillippines were significantly distinct from the Chinese in China and wished to have independence and self-determination and sovereignty -- why shouldn't they have it?
Click to expand...




LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Click to expand...


Q. And how many Arabs became Palestinian citizens? How many opted to receive the passport?


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. And how many Arabs became Palestinian citizens? How many opted to receive the passport?
Click to expand...



your plaintive question is quite irrelevant to the issue of putative Zionist legitimacy in a majority Arab state...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Can you document that assertion?



Again?  Jeeze, I'll have to put this on perma-link to save me from doing it three times a day.

Mandate for Palestine:

Preamble:  Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

Article 6:  The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

Article 11:  The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.

The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.




If Palestine was already a State by the time this was written -- it was clearly a state for the Jewish people and to be developed by and eventually handed over to a Jewish government.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..following your criterion for statehood the Chinese minority in the Philippines are entitled to establish a state of their own..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your problem with that is what, exactly?  If the Chinese minority in the Phillippines were significantly distinct from the Chinese in China and wished to have independence and self-determination and sovereignty -- why shouldn't they have it?
Click to expand...

Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. If those Chinese are citizens the most they can legitimately get is shared sovereignty with the other citizens.

The same for the Jews in Palestine.


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have nearly four thousand years of consecutive, continuous residency.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. And how many Arabs became Palestinian citizens? How many opted to receive the passport?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your plaintive question is quite irrelevant to the issue of putative Zionist legitimacy in a majority Arab state...
Click to expand...

Usually ethnically cleansed people remain a minority in their homeland, look at the many Arab Muslim countries
The indigenous people are a tiny minority in Americas - yet they have ALL the legitimacy to self-determination.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you document that assertion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again?  Jeeze, I'll have to put this on perma-link to save me from doing it three times a day.
> 
> Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> Preamble:  Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> Article 6:  The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
> 
> The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Palestine was already a State by the time this was written -- it was clearly a state for the Jewish people and to be developed by and eventually handed over to a Jewish government.
Click to expand...

So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> LMFAO!!!!!  Apparently we are supposed to consent to nothing beyond your opinion that any adjustment to this sentence is axiomatically 'ridiculous'...see if you can fit 'self-evident' into a framework for legal reference?  As previously explained to the point of futility the Eastern European Jews---direct descendants of Khazar-converts to Judaism-- have zero legal or ethical  claim to historic Palestine...if you believe otherwise present your putative proof of this fictive right or concede your inability to do so...



You move straight into irrelevancies as an attempt to deflect from the issue.  

Where are the Jewish people from?  Where did they originate?  Where is the historical home for the Jewish people?  Are you seriously going to deny that the Jewish people, as a whole, originated and held thousands of years of history in THAT place?  You can't possibly deny it.  You said just today that there were ancient Jewish kingdoms in that territory.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you document that assertion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again?  Jeeze, I'll have to put this on perma-link to save me from doing it three times a day.
> 
> Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> Preamble:  Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> Article 6:  The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
> 
> The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Palestine was already a State by the time this was written -- it was clearly a state for the Jewish people and to be developed by and eventually handed over to a Jewish government.
Click to expand...



Your stupidity is awe-inspiring...not only was this not a bridge to Jewish statehood, it was no more than an instrument of western imperialism manipulated in favor of Jewish designs in a state where Jews did not even account for 20% of the population...an apparent irony in article #11 is the reference twice to Palestine as a 'country' therein contradicting another central staple of Zionist propaganda...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..following your criterion for statehood the Chinese minority in the Philippines are entitled to establish a state of their own..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your problem with that is what, exactly?  If the Chinese minority in the Phillippines were significantly distinct from the Chinese in China and wished to have independence and self-determination and sovereignty -- why shouldn't they have it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. If those Chinese are citizens the most they can legitimately get is shared sovereignty with the other citizens.
> 
> The same for the Jews in Palestine.
Click to expand...


The Hamas charter does not entertain the notion of shared sovereignty. In fact, it does not entertain the existence of the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?



Well, largely because the Arabs were having a hissy fit in the form of murderous violence and the British hope to find a peaceful solution.  But THAT is a deflection from my point.

IF Palestine was a state in 1923 then it was clearly a state for the Jewish people with a Jewish government.


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they became Palestinian citizens with the rest of the people living there.
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. And how many Arabs became Palestinian citizens? How many opted to receive the passport?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your plaintive question is quite irrelevant to the issue of putative Zionist legitimacy in a majority Arab state...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Usually ethnically cleansed people remain a minority in their homeland, look at the many Arab Muslim countries
> The indigenous people are a tiny minority in Americas - yet they have ALL the legitimacy to self-determination.
Click to expand...




Are you calling into question an ethnic-cleansing attested to by the leading Zionist voices of the time? Are you entertaining the notion that the remnants of native Americans enjoy any level of 'self-determination???"


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. If those Chinese are citizens the most they can legitimately get is shared sovereignty with the other citizens.
> 
> The same for the Jews in Palestine.



So different peoples can not have separate sovereignty over a territory?  Yugoslavia can not have been divided?  Oops.  Czechoslovakia can not have been divided?  Oops.  The Spanish and the Catalans can not divide?  How you going to explain that to them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, largely because the Arabs were having a hissy fit in the form of murderous violence and the British hope to find a peaceful solution.  But THAT is a deflection from my point.
> 
> IF Palestine was a state in 1923 then it was clearly a state for the Jewish people with a Jewish government.
Click to expand...

Was it?


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMFAO!!!!!  Apparently we are supposed to consent to nothing beyond your opinion that any adjustment to this sentence is axiomatically 'ridiculous'...see if you can fit 'self-evident' into a framework for legal reference?  As previously explained to the point of futility the Eastern European Jews---direct descendants of Khazar-converts to Judaism-- have zero legal or ethical  claim to historic Palestine...if you believe otherwise present your putative proof of this fictive right or concede your inability to do so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You move straight into irrelevancies as an attempt to deflect from the issue.
> 
> Where are the Jewish people from?  Where did they originate?  Where is the historical home for the Jewish people?  Are you seriously going to deny that the Jewish people, as a whole, originated and held thousands of years of history in THAT place?  You can't possibly deny it.  You said just today that there were ancient Jewish kingdoms in that territory.
Click to expand...




Unlike you I don't require 'deflections' ...the Jews who seized Palestine in 48 are from Eastern Europe---assorted Turks...Mongols...Poles and Urkranians...once yet again you posit some irrelevant personal authority with   "You can't possibly deny it"...to which I can only lament your impulse to idiocy,,,


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, largely because the Arabs were having a hissy fit in the form of murderous violence and the British hope to find a peaceful solution.  But THAT is a deflection from my point.
> 
> IF Palestine was a state in 1923 then it was clearly a state for the Jewish people with a Jewish government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was it?
Click to expand...


The Mandate clearly states that it was.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. If those Chinese are citizens the most they can legitimately get is shared sovereignty with the other citizens.
> 
> The same for the Jews in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So different peoples can not have separate sovereignty over a territory?  Yugoslavia can not have been divided?  Oops.  Czechoslovakia can not have been divided?  Oops.  The Spanish and the Catalans can not divide?  How you going to explain that to them?
Click to expand...



Yet another irrelevant deflection...gosh I'm still waiting for that promised proof of Jewish rights to Palestine...quite a long wait huh?


----------



## Ventura77

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. If those Chinese are citizens the most they can legitimately get is shared sovereignty with the other citizens.
> 
> The same for the Jews in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So different peoples can not have separate sovereignty over a territory?  Yugoslavia can not have been divided?  Oops.  Czechoslovakia can not have been divided?  Oops.  The Spanish and the Catalans can not divide?  How you going to explain that to them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another irrelevant deflection...gosh I'm still waiting for that promised proof of Jewish rights to Palestine...quite a long wait huh?
Click to expand...



Shusha the one thing that you cannot hide is that you are a textbook Hasbara-troll...each absurd answer is pre-scripted and in circulation online...


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Unlike you I don't require 'deflections' ...the Jews who seized Palestine in 48 are from Eastern Europe---assorted Turks...Mongols...Poles and Urkranians...once yet again you posit some irrelevant personal authority with   "You can't possibly deny it"...to which I can only lament your impulse to idiocy,,,



But, theoretically, according to your understanding, the Jewish people clearly had a history and origin in the territory.  Yes or no?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. If those Chinese are citizens the most they can legitimately get is shared sovereignty with the other citizens.
> 
> The same for the Jews in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So different peoples can not have separate sovereignty over a territory?  Yugoslavia can not have been divided?  Oops.  Czechoslovakia can not have been divided?  Oops.  The Spanish and the Catalans can not divide?  How you going to explain that to them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another irrelevant deflection...gosh I'm still waiting for that promised proof of Jewish rights to Palestine...quite a long wait huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha the one thing that you cannot hide is that you are a textbook Hasbara-troll...each absurd answer is pre-scripted and in circulation online...
Click to expand...


Such an angry islamist.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, largely because the Arabs were having a hissy fit in the form of murderous violence and the British hope to find a peaceful solution.  But THAT is a deflection from my point.
> 
> IF Palestine was a state in 1923 then it was clearly a state for the Jewish people with a Jewish government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mandate clearly states that it was.
Click to expand...



The mandate had no authority over the majority residents of Palestine...HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha the one thing that you cannot hide is that you are a textbook Hasbara-troll...each absurd answer is pre-scripted and in circulation online...



Translation:  I have no ability to provide reasonable responses to your claims.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you I don't require 'deflections' ...the Jews who seized Palestine in 48 are from Eastern Europe---assorted Turks...Mongols...Poles and Urkranians...once yet again you posit some irrelevant personal authority with   "You can't possibly deny it"...to which I can only lament your impulse to idiocy,,,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, theoretically, according to your understanding, the Jewish people clearly had a history and origin in the territory.  Yes or no?
Click to expand...



What part of "small minority' doesn't register dear?  Again for the sake of perpetual repetition: these were eastern European Jews without any history in Palestine...


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Palestine never existed as a Nation/Country.
> The Romans called the region where Judea and Samaria existed
> SYRIA Palestinia.   There were no Syrian Palestinians at any time.
> No one, not one inhabitant, not one invader ever called the people living on the land Syrian Palestinians .
> 
> Not the Romans, the Byzantine, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the British.
> Not the Americans, the Germans, the Italians, or anyone else who visited the region.
> 
> Israel did exist and had citizens to its Nation.
> They were not called Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> One cannot become a citizen of a country or Nation which does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. And how many Arabs became Palestinian citizens? How many opted to receive the passport?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your plaintive question is quite irrelevant to the issue of putative Zionist legitimacy in a majority Arab state...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Usually ethnically cleansed people remain a minority in their homeland, look at the many Arab Muslim countries
> The indigenous people are a tiny minority in Americas - yet they have ALL the legitimacy to self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you calling into question an ethnic-cleansing attested to by the leading Zionist voices of the time? Are you entertaining the notion that the remnants of native Americans enjoy any level of 'self-determination???"
Click to expand...


Simply pointing to the fact that Arabs didn't become a majority by peaceful means, as any other invader in another peoples homeland.Invaders can become a majority.
Romans, Greeks and Arabs are invaders in the Levant.

BTW team Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine...still deserve rights.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha the one thing that you cannot hide is that you are a textbook Hasbara-troll...each absurd answer is pre-scripted and in circulation online...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  I have no ability to provide reasonable responses to your claims.
Click to expand...




No translation necessary to the obvious extent that you have no binding argument...keep spinning


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?



What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?

So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. And how many Arabs became Palestinian citizens? How many opted to receive the passport?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your plaintive question is quite irrelevant to the issue of putative Zionist legitimacy in a majority Arab state...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Usually ethnically cleansed people remain a minority in their homeland, look at the many Arab Muslim countries
> The indigenous people are a tiny minority in Americas - yet they have ALL the legitimacy to self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you calling into question an ethnic-cleansing attested to by the leading Zionist voices of the time? Are you entertaining the notion that the remnants of native Americans enjoy any level of 'self-determination???"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Simply pointing to the fact that Arabs didn't become a majority by peaceful means, as any other invader in another peoples homeland.Invaders can become a majority.
> Romans, Greeks and Arabs are invaders in the Levant.
> 
> BTW team Palestine still claims that Jews are a minority in Palestine...still deserve rights.
Click to expand...



Sheer hypocrisy


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you document that assertion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again?  Jeeze, I'll have to put this on perma-link to save me from doing it three times a day.
> 
> Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> Preamble:  Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Article 2:  The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4:  An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> Article 6:  The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 11:  The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
> 
> The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Palestine was already a State by the time this was written -- it was clearly a state for the Jewish people and to be developed by and eventually handed over to a Jewish government.
Click to expand...

The Mandate was for Jews to become Palestinian citizens with the rest of the Palestinians.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> The mandate had no authority over the majority residents of Palestine...HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



This is no more than an appeal to lawlessness.  What other instruments of international law do you want to reject and discard?


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
Click to expand...



A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate was for Jews to become Palestinian citizens with the rest of the Palestinians.



As a State for the reconstitution of the Jewish homeland with a Jewish government.


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious



So you ARE, in fact, claiming that minorities have no rights.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate had no authority over the majority residents of Palestine...HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is no more than an appeal to lawlessness.  What other instruments of international law do you want to reject and discard?
Click to expand...



'lawlessness" as in say conducting an ethnic-cleansing terror campaign...?


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
Click to expand...


56%??
How many times is Jordan (with its' Palestinian majority) bigger than Israel? How many times?

Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you ARE, in fact, claiming that minorities have no rights.
Click to expand...




not to a state or to drive out the majority demographic


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you I don't require 'deflections' ...the Jews who seized Palestine in 48 are from Eastern Europe---assorted Turks...Mongols...Poles and Urkranians...once yet again you posit some irrelevant personal authority with   "You can't possibly deny it"...to which I can only lament your impulse to idiocy,,,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, theoretically, according to your understanding, the Jewish people clearly had a history and origin in the territory.  Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What part of "small minority' doesn't register dear?  Again for the sake of perpetual repetition: these were eastern European Jews without any history in Palestine...
Click to expand...


There, there, pumpkin. Because repetition provides slow adults like you an allowance, what part of Jews buying land from absentee land owners in Syria and Lebanon in your invented "country of Pal'istan" don't you yet understand?


Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was for Jews to become Palestinian citizens with the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a State for the reconstitution of the Jewish homeland with a Jewish government.
Click to expand...



irrelevant language to the extent that majority population is disregarded...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was for Jews to become Palestinian citizens with the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a State for the reconstitution of the Jewish homeland with a Jewish government.
Click to expand...

Documents?


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
Click to expand...




Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine


----------



## Ventura77

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was for Jews to become Palestinian citizens with the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a State for the reconstitution of the Jewish homeland with a Jewish government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Documents?
Click to expand...




Trust me here Tinmore, Shusha is posting this tripe directly from Hasbara software


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
Click to expand...


Where is this "historic Palestine"? Silly slogans you use are not irrelevant..


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
Click to expand...


Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?

Arabs received much more than half the land already.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was for Jews to become Palestinian citizens with the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a State for the reconstitution of the Jewish homeland with a Jewish government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Documents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me here Tinmore, Shusha is posting this tripe directly from Hasbara software
Click to expand...


Baghdad Bob claimed "trust me, Americans are not in the city."

You two have a lot in common.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Documents?



Your kidding, right?  I JUST posted this:

Mandate for Palestine:

Preamble: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Article 2: The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

Article 4: An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

Article 11: The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.

The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Documents?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your kidding, right?  I JUST posted this:
> 
> Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> Preamble: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Article 2: The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4: An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Article 11: The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
> 
> The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
Click to expand...

You forgot article 7.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You forgot article 7.



I did so.

Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

If you are trying to argue that Israel is a State and that it was created from the existing rights of the Jewish people to a national homeland but that it SHOULD have incorporated all of the Arabs into that state -- that is an entirely different argument.  Pick your poison and stick with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.


And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> If you are trying to argue that Israel is a State and that it was created from the existing rights of the Jewish people to a national homeland but that it SHOULD have incorporated all of the Arabs into that state -- that is an entirely different argument.  Pick your poison and stick with it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
Click to expand...


No, they did not have citizenship in any state. How many _more_ times does this need to be explained to you? Give us a number.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
Click to expand...


All other Palestinians?? Just how many do You imagine chose to become Palestinians?

The *Mandatory Palestine passport* refers to the travel document that was intended for residents of Mandatory Palestine between 1925 and 1948. The first brown-covered passport appeared around 1927, following the Nationality Law from 1925. *From 1926 to 1935 alone approximately 70,000 of such travel documents were granted.*[1]

Not so many Arabs became Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they did not have citizenship in any state. How many _more_ times does this need to be explained to you? Give us a number.
Click to expand...

I think it was about half million. The exact number is irrelevant.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.



Sure.  Citizenship in the reconstituted State of the Jewish national homeland with a Jewish governing body.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they did not have citizenship in any state. How many _more_ times does this need to be explained to you? Give us a number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it was about half million. The exact number is irrelevant.
Click to expand...


More like 70,000 the number tells A LOT about how many actually opted to receive the citizenship.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All other Palestinians?? Just how many do You imagine chose to become Palestinians?
> 
> The *Mandatory Palestine passport* refers to the travel document that was intended for residents of Mandatory Palestine between 1925 and 1948. The first brown-covered passport appeared around 1927, following the Nationality Law from 1925. *From 1926 to 1935 alone approximately 70,000 of such travel documents were granted.*[1]
> 
> Not so many Arabs became Palestinians.
Click to expand...

And all of those farmers in remote villages ran out to get passports. People in business or those seeking education needed them. The other people not so much.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.  Citizenship in the reconstituted State of the Jewish national homeland with a Jewish governing body.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All other Palestinians?? Just how many do You imagine chose to become Palestinians?
> 
> The *Mandatory Palestine passport* refers to the travel document that was intended for residents of Mandatory Palestine between 1925 and 1948. The first brown-covered passport appeared around 1927, following the Nationality Law from 1925. *From 1926 to 1935 alone approximately 70,000 of such travel documents were granted.*[1]
> 
> Not so many Arabs became Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of those farmers in remote villages ran out to get passports. People in business or those seeking education needed them. The other people not so much.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they did not have citizenship in any state. How many _more_ times does this need to be explained to you? Give us a number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it was about half million. The exact number is irrelevant.
Click to expand...


A half million times the facts were recited to you and you still don’t understand.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All other Palestinians?? Just how many do You imagine chose to become Palestinians?
> 
> The *Mandatory Palestine passport* refers to the travel document that was intended for residents of Mandatory Palestine between 1925 and 1948. The first brown-covered passport appeared around 1927, following the Nationality Law from 1925. *From 1926 to 1935 alone approximately 70,000 of such travel documents were granted.*[1]
> 
> Not so many Arabs became Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of those farmers in remote villages ran out to get passports. People in business or those seeking education needed them. The other people not so much.
Click to expand...


for 10 years while fighting Jewish self-determination?? Nah...
 Maybe they were ineligible on the conditions of "habitual residence".

The majority of Arabs didn't become Palestinian citizens.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All other Palestinians?? Just how many do You imagine chose to become Palestinians?
> 
> The *Mandatory Palestine passport* refers to the travel document that was intended for residents of Mandatory Palestine between 1925 and 1948. The first brown-covered passport appeared around 1927, following the Nationality Law from 1925. *From 1926 to 1935 alone approximately 70,000 of such travel documents were granted.*[1]
> 
> Not so many Arabs became Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of those farmers in remote villages ran out to get passports. People in business or those seeking education needed them. The other people not so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Passports are not required for citizenship. They are only necessary for those who want/need to travel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All other Palestinians?? Just how many do You imagine chose to become Palestinians?
> 
> The *Mandatory Palestine passport* refers to the travel document that was intended for residents of Mandatory Palestine between 1925 and 1948. The first brown-covered passport appeared around 1927, following the Nationality Law from 1925. *From 1926 to 1935 alone approximately 70,000 of such travel documents were granted.*[1]
> 
> Not so many Arabs became Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of those farmers in remote villages ran out to get passports. People in business or those seeking education needed them. The other people not so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passports are not required for citizenship. They are only necessary for those who want/need to travel.
Click to expand...


Then how can one prove citizenship without a passport?

Seems that this "sate of Palestine" with only 70,000 citizens is a biiiiiig smokescreen nobody bought into, neither Arabs nor Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot article 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they did not have citizenship in any state. How many _more_ times does this need to be explained to you? Give us a number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it was about half million. The exact number is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A half million times the facts were recited to you and you still don’t understand.
Click to expand...

In 1920, the British Government's _Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine_ stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine:

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years.

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.  Citizenship in the reconstituted State of the Jewish national homeland with a Jewish governing body.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Really?  Here it is again.  I'll highlight it again for you this time.  

Mandate for Palestine:

Preamble: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas *recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and

Article 2: The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will* secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions*, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

Article 4: An *appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine*, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government* to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home*.

Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, *shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.*

Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Article 11: The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, *shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country,* having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.

The Administration may arrange with *the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country*, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.  Citizenship in the reconstituted State of the Jewish national homeland with a Jewish governing body.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Here it is again.  I'll highlight it again for you this time.
> 
> Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> Preamble: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas *recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Article 2: The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will* secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions*, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4: An *appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine*, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government* to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, *shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.*
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11: The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, *shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country,* having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
> 
> The Administration may arrange with *the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country*, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
Click to expand...

It doesn't say Israel or Jewish state.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did so.
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of *Palestinian citizenship* by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they did not have citizenship in any state. How many _more_ times does this need to be explained to you? Give us a number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it was about half million. The exact number is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A half million times the facts were recited to you and you still don’t understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 1920, the British Government's _Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine_ stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine:
> 
> There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years.
> 
> Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


*http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-arabs-in-palestine*

*A Population Boom *
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. 

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all of the other Palestinians already had citizenship without religious distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.  Citizenship in the reconstituted State of the Jewish national homeland with a Jewish governing body.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Here it is again.  I'll highlight it again for you this time.
> 
> Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> Preamble: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the *establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
> 
> Whereas *recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country*; and
> 
> Article 2: The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will* secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions*, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> 
> Article 4: An *appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine*, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government* to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home*.
> 
> Article 6: The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, *shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.*
> 
> Article 7:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> Article 11: The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, *shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country,* having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
> 
> The Administration may arrange with *the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country*, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't say Israel or Jewish state.
Click to expand...


The state of Israel came later. The above doesn’t say gee-had or Islamist waqf.


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!  for the very same set of legal and ethical reasons that a self-entitled Jewish minority in Palestine shouldn't have it...capish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
Click to expand...



Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It doesn't say Israel or Jewish state.



It doesn't HAVE to, remember?  That was the ENTIRE point of this line of the questioning.  The territory was already a State in 1923.  You have already established that.  

What the Mandate agreement does then, is define that State and outline provisions for the government of that already existing State -- and that was the reconstitution of the Jewish national home with a Jewish government.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
Click to expand...


Did you know that punctuation was a Joooooo invention?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't say Israel or Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't HAVE to, remember?  That was the ENTIRE point of this line of the questioning.  The territory was already a State in 1923.  You have already established that.
> 
> What the Mandate agreement does then, is define that State and outline provisions for the government of that already existing State -- and that was the reconstitution of the Jewish national home with a Jewish government.
Click to expand...

Then what about all of the Palestinians who became citizens in 1925?


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> If you are trying to argue that Israel is a State and that it was created from the existing rights of the Jewish people to a national homeland but that it SHOULD have incorporated all of the Arabs into that state -- that is an entirely different argument.  Pick your poison and stick with it.





Tinmore...she is a propagandist...she works from pre-scripted material written expressly for the internet...even the act of engaging these snakes in debate is a losing proposition because---as I have demonstrated---even when they are confronted with unalterable facts they reply with double-doses of bullshit


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> If you are trying to argue that Israel is a State and that it was created from the existing rights of the Jewish people to a national homeland but that it SHOULD have incorporated all of the Arabs into that state -- that is an entirely different argument.  Pick your poison and stick with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore...she is a propagandist...she works from pre-scripted material written expressly for the internet...even the act of engaging these snakes in debate is a losing proposition because---as I have demonstrated---even when they are confronted with unalterable facts they reply with double-doses of bullshit
Click to expand...


I didn’t find any facts in your link to “failedmessiah.com”. As you have demonstrated, you’re fact-less.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Then what about all of the Palestinians who became citizens in 1925?



What about them?  They would have lived nice, enjoyable, peaceful lives in Israel if they hadn't been violently hostile.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about all of the Palestinians who became citizens in 1925?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about them?  They would have lived nice, enjoyable, peaceful lives in Israel if they hadn't been violently hostile.
Click to expand...

BS, virtually all of them were unarmed civilians at home.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> BS, virtually all of them were unarmed civilians at home.



Oh give me a break.  Like the Gazans of today?  Just innocent unarmed civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS, virtually all of them were unarmed civilians at home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  Like the Gazans of today?  Just innocent unarmed civilians.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about all of the Palestinians who became citizens in 1925?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about them?  They would have lived nice, enjoyable, peaceful lives in Israel if they hadn't been violently hostile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS, virtually all of them were unarmed civilians at home.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS, virtually all of them were unarmed civilians at home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  Like the Gazans of today?  Just innocent unarmed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese.
Click to expand...


Are you arguing that the resistance is over and there are no more attacks on Israel from Gaza?  When did that happen?

And you are also arguing that there has never been any resistance?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS, virtually all of them were unarmed civilians at home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break.  Like the Gazans of today?  Just innocent unarmed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you arguing that the resistance is over and there are no more attacks on Israel from Gaza?  When did that happen?
> 
> And you are also arguing that there has never been any resistance?
Click to expand...

Deflection. We were discussing 1948.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.



So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
Click to expand...

The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
Click to expand...

Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?

Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?

How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?

(Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")


----------



## Ventura77

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
Click to expand...



...by April of 1948 the number of expelled Palestinians had reached 800,000...the victors were quite frank and candid about the scavenger Zionist Jews who opportunistically took property and land abandoned by Arab Palestinians fleeing for their very lives...the Jew cowards re-wrote this episode as 'Israel's War for Independence' ...when we reflect on the salient fact that no 'dependent Israel' existed the sheer weight and scale of these vulgar lies rises to the surface like shit...


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
Click to expand...




a far better question is how were the native population expected to defend themselves against thieving Jew pirates and terrorists whose numbers---estimated at 125,000---clearly exceeded the combined Arab forces of Syria and Egypt?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a far better question is how were the native population expected to defend themselves against thieving Jew pirates and terrorists whose numbers---estimated at 125,000---clearly exceeded the combined Arab forces of Syria and Egypt?
Click to expand...


A better question still is why are you Arabs-Moslems still whing like petulant children for losing a war you initiated?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...by April of 1948 the number of expelled Palestinians had reached 800,000...the victors were quite frank and candid about the scavenger Zionist Jews who opportunistically took property and land abandoned by Arab Palestinians fleeing for their very lives...the Jew cowards re-wrote this episode as 'Israel's War for Independence' ...when we reflect on the salient fact that no 'dependent Israel' existed the sheer weight and scale of these vulgar lies rises to the surface like shit...
Click to expand...


Another of your plagiarized tirades.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a far better question is how were the native population expected to defend themselves against thieving Jew pirates and terrorists whose numbers---estimated at 125,000---clearly exceeded the combined Arab forces of Syria and Egypt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A better question still is why are you Arabs-Moslems still whing like petulant children for losing a war you initiated?
Click to expand...



It must be of no minor benefit to your tiny brain to literally invent history...on one side we had an unarmed civilian population...on the other well-armed Jewish terror groups---Irgun...Haganah...Stern Geng...Lehi...can you do the math idiot?


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...by April of 1948 the number of expelled Palestinians had reached 800,000...the victors were quite frank and candid about the scavenger Zionist Jews who opportunistically took property and land abandoned by Arab Palestinians fleeing for their very lives...the Jew cowards re-wrote this episode as 'Israel's War for Independence' ...when we reflect on the salient fact that no 'dependent Israel' existed the sheer weight and scale of these vulgar lies rises to the surface like shit...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your plagiarized tirades.
Click to expand...




Another of your tired delusions...IQ?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...by April of 1948 the number of expelled Palestinians had reached 800,000...the victors were quite frank and candid about the scavenger Zionist Jews who opportunistically took property and land abandoned by Arab Palestinians fleeing for their very lives...the Jew cowards re-wrote this episode as 'Israel's War for Independence' ...when we reflect on the salient fact that no 'dependent Israel' existed the sheer weight and scale of these vulgar lies rises to the surface like shit...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your plagiarized tirades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your tired delusions...IQ?
Click to expand...


You’re such an easy mark to leave stuttering and mumbling.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
Click to expand...




There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...by April of 1948 the number of expelled Palestinians had reached 800,000...the victors were quite frank and candid about the scavenger Zionist Jews who opportunistically took property and land abandoned by Arab Palestinians fleeing for their very lives...the Jew cowards re-wrote this episode as 'Israel's War for Independence' ...when we reflect on the salient fact that no 'dependent Israel' existed the sheer weight and scale of these vulgar lies rises to the surface like shit...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your plagiarized tirades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your tired delusions...IQ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re such an easy mark to leave stutteting and mumbling.
Click to expand...




Your level and degree of compensatory self-delusions suggests mental illness...or garden variety idiocy...take your pick


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...
Click to expand...


Your shrill screeching is a hoot.

The Arab-moslem “refugees” were the result of the Arab-Islamist invaders pushing aside the Arab-Moslem squatters. That gee-had to push the Jews into the sea with gunfire didn’t work out as planned for you Islamist invaders. You suffered a humiliating loss. Deal with your failures.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...by April of 1948 the number of expelled Palestinians had reached 800,000...the victors were quite frank and candid about the scavenger Zionist Jews who opportunistically took property and land abandoned by Arab Palestinians fleeing for their very lives...the Jew cowards re-wrote this episode as 'Israel's War for Independence' ...when we reflect on the salient fact that no 'dependent Israel' existed the sheer weight and scale of these vulgar lies rises to the surface like shit...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your plagiarized tirades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your tired delusions...IQ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re such an easy mark to leave stutteting and mumbling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your level and degree of compensatory self-delusions suggests mental illness...or garden variety idiocy...take your pick
Click to expand...


Your fumbling with terms and definitions you don’t understand suggests you’re a pompous know-nothing. 

But, I do acknowledge your inability to refute my arguments.


----------



## JoelT1

No history of fakestinians 

History of the Jewish People Brooklyn Museum: Tree of Paradise: Jewish Mosaics from the Roman Empire


----------



## Sixties Fan

Three Arab terrorists were captured last week while placing a bomb near a security fence outside of Jerusalem.

The three suspects are residents of the Palestinian Authority-controlled town of Beit Duqu, in Samaria, and ranged in age from 17 to 19.

Last Monday, the three terrorists were captured while planting an explosive device alongside a patrol road running parallel to a security fence outside of Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Watch: Terrorists caught in the act


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. We were discussing 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your shrill screeching is a hoot.
> 
> The Arab-moslem “refugees” were the result of the Arab-Islamist invaders pushing aside the Arab-Moslem squatters. That gee-had to push the Jews into the sea with gunfire didn’t work out as planned for you Islamist invaders. You suffered a humiliating loss. Deal with your failures.
Click to expand...

ON A COLD WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches on a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from vast areas of the country. The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centers; setting fire to homes, properties, and goods; expelling residents; demolishing homes; and, finally, planting mines in the rubble to prevent the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued its own list of villages and neighborhoods to target in keeping with the master plan. Code-named Plan D (Dalet in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of vaguer plans outlining the fate that was in store for the native population of Palestine. The previous three plans had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership intended to deal with the presence of so many Palestinians on the land the Jewish national movement wanted for itself. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.

http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your shrill screeching is a hoot.
> 
> The Arab-moslem “refugees” were the result of the Arab-Islamist invaders pushing aside the Arab-Moslem squatters. That gee-had to push the Jews into the sea with gunfire didn’t work out as planned for you Islamist invaders. You suffered a humiliating loss. Deal with your failures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ON A COLD WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches on a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from vast areas of the country. The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centers; setting fire to homes, properties, and goods; expelling residents; demolishing homes; and, finally, planting mines in the rubble to prevent the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued its own list of villages and neighborhoods to target in keeping with the master plan. Code-named Plan D (Dalet in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of vaguer plans outlining the fate that was in store for the native population of Palestine. The previous three plans had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership intended to deal with the presence of so many Palestinians on the land the Jewish national movement wanted for itself. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf
Click to expand...


Palestine: Roman name imposed on Jews’ land of Israel, about 2000 years ago, reflecting the ancient Jewish heritage and history of the land


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  "P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you've made this mistake several time in the last month.



P F Tinmore said:


> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?


*(OBSERVATION)*

The British transferred their authority to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC), not the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP).  the UNSCOP research and made the recommendations to the General Assembly in late 1947.  The UNPC was the recommendation of the UNSCOP in Part I of Resolution 181(II) and became the "Successor Government."

•  15 May 1948: Date officially communicated to the Commission by the representative of the United Kingdom Government as the ultimate date on which the Mandatory Power will terminate the Mandate and transfer administrative authority in Palestine to the Commission.

✪  “Legally the Mandate terminates midnight on the night of the 14th/15th May.

*✪ UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION** AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT *Press Release PAL/138 27 February 1948  The Government of the United Kingdom, in a memorandum on the "Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate", has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so far as the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.

*✪ *First Meeting of the United Nations Palestine Commission. 9 January 1948​
*(COMMENT)*

But I'm sure that we all knew what you meant.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your shrill screeching is a hoot.
> 
> The Arab-moslem “refugees” were the result of the Arab-Islamist invaders pushing aside the Arab-Moslem squatters. That gee-had to push the Jews into the sea with gunfire didn’t work out as planned for you Islamist invaders. You suffered a humiliating loss. Deal with your failures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ON A COLD WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches on a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from vast areas of the country. The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centers; setting fire to homes, properties, and goods; expelling residents; demolishing homes; and, finally, planting mines in the rubble to prevent the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued its own list of villages and neighborhoods to target in keeping with the master plan. Code-named Plan D (Dalet in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of vaguer plans outlining the fate that was in store for the native population of Palestine. The previous three plans had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership intended to deal with the presence of so many Palestinians on the land the Jewish national movement wanted for itself. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf
Click to expand...


It was a dark and stormy night......

Yes, yes, Louie and now you have attempted to make this conspiracy theory more than it was.

Plan D - Master Defense Plan of the Hagana

Nonetheless, contrary to the assertions of some, none of the following seem to be evident in the plan as published:


It was not a plan for mass expulsion or "ethnic cleansing" of Palestinians from wide areas



It was not an offensive plan-- it was meant to activated only in the event of an attack initiated by the Arab side, though that attack was thought to be inevitable. 



It did not call for massacres such as the massacre perpetrated at  Deir Yassin by the dissident Irgun and Lehi forces.



It was not an "expansionist" plan: "Generally, the aim of this plan is not an operation of occupation outside the borders of the Hebrew state."


----------



## JoelT1

The British dusted off the Roman name “palestine” first imposed on Jews’ land and called the British Mandate, established after WW1, “palestine” until it ceased to exist with Israeli statehood

“Palestine” was an illegitimate Western colonialist invention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you've made this mistake several time in the last month.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> The British transferred their authority to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC), not the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP).  the UNSCOP research and made the recommendations to the General Assembly in late 1947.  The UNPC was the recommendation of the UNSCOP in Part I of Resolution 181(II) and became the "Successor Government."
> 
> •  15 May 1948: Date officially communicated to the Commission by the representative of the United Kingdom Government as the ultimate date on which the Mandatory Power will terminate the Mandate and transfer administrative authority in Palestine to the Commission.
> 
> ✪  “Legally the Mandate terminates midnight on the night of the 14th/15th May.
> 
> *✪ UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION** AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT *Press Release PAL/138 27 February 1948  The Government of the United Kingdom, in a memorandum on the "Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate", has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so far as the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.
> 
> *✪ *First Meeting of the United Nations Palestine Commission. 9 January 1948​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But I'm sure that we all knew what you meant.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are correct, Thanks. 

Where was the UNPC when it was supposed to protect the people and territory in its trust?


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you've made this mistake several time in the last month.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why did the British hand Palestine over to the UNSCOP and not Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> The British transferred their authority to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC), not the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP).  the UNSCOP research and made the recommendations to the General Assembly in late 1947.  The UNPC was the recommendation of the UNSCOP in Part I of Resolution 181(II) and became the "Successor Government."
> 
> •  15 May 1948: Date officially communicated to the Commission by the representative of the United Kingdom Government as the ultimate date on which the Mandatory Power will terminate the Mandate and transfer administrative authority in Palestine to the Commission.
> 
> ✪  “Legally the Mandate terminates midnight on the night of the 14th/15th May.
> 
> *✪ UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION** AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT *Press Release PAL/138 27 February 1948  The Government of the United Kingdom, in a memorandum on the "Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate", has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so far as the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.
> 
> *✪ *First Meeting of the United Nations Palestine Commission. 9 January 1948​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But I'm sure that we all knew what you meant.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct, Thanks.
> 
> Where was the UNPC when it was supposed to protect the people and territory in its trust?
Click to expand...


The “people” were the indigenous Jews who have owned the land dating back 3000+ years. Israel is the only indigenous, historically legitimate name for those thousands of years


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> 
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your shrill screeching is a hoot.
> 
> The Arab-moslem “refugees” were the result of the Arab-Islamist invaders pushing aside the Arab-Moslem squatters. That gee-had to push the Jews into the sea with gunfire didn’t work out as planned for you Islamist invaders. You suffered a humiliating loss. Deal with your failures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ON A COLD WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches on a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from vast areas of the country. The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centers; setting fire to homes, properties, and goods; expelling residents; demolishing homes; and, finally, planting mines in the rubble to prevent the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued its own list of villages and neighborhoods to target in keeping with the master plan. Code-named Plan D (Dalet in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of vaguer plans outlining the fate that was in store for the native population of Palestine. The previous three plans had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership intended to deal with the presence of so many Palestinians on the land the Jewish national movement wanted for itself. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine: Roman name imposed on Jews’ land of Israel, about 2000 years ago, reflecting the ancient Jewish heritage and history of the land
Click to expand...



LOL...in point of fact 2000 years ago the history and heritage of the land was Canaanite...why are Jews so abysmal at basic history?


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  "P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah - 



P F Tinmore said:


> Where was the UNPC when it was supposed to protect the people and territory in its trust?


*(COMMENT)*

The UNPC was created when Resolution 181(II) was adopted.  Its first meeting was in January 1948.

When the UNPC attempted to bring all the parties together, as usual the Arab Higher Committee (AKA Arab Palestinians) declined.

(EXCERPT  UNPC First Monthly Progress Report A/AC.21/7  29 January 1948)

(d) The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine. The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission. The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan. The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok. As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January:


“ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission. The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.​
The Arab Palestinians have little room _(maybe even NO room)_ to complain if they chose not to participate in the process of establishing self-governing institutions.

Democracy in Government is a participatory activity and function.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> No history of “palestinians”
> 
> History of the Jewish People Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)




What a pathetic imbecile...right no history of the Palestinians---just a blank space in Palestine from the late 7th century to the present...the object of propaganda and lies is to appear credible, not to make statements so impossibly stupid that you virtually declare yourself a mindless liar...


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> The British dusted off the Roman name “palestine” first imposed on Jews’ land and called the British Mandate, established after WW1, “palestine” until it ceased to exist with Israeli statehood
> 
> “Palestine” was an illegitimate Western colonialist invention.






Oh but it didn't 'cease to exist fool...it merely became occupied Palestine...the real 'illegitimate Western Colonialist invention is Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of “palestinians”
> 
> History of the Jewish People Gallery: WHC 2015 – Beth She’arim Necropolis - a Landmark of Jewish Revival (Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a pathetic imbecile...right no history of the Palestinians---just a blank space in Palestine from the late 7th century to the present...the object of propaganda and lies is to appear credible, not to make statements so impossibly stupid that you virtually declare yourself a mindless liar...
Click to expand...

Have you been able to find a history book, documents, reports, etc referring to the Palestinian People, professor?

Does any one of your sources give us a glimpse of these people from the late 7th century to the end of WWI?


----------



## Ventura77

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are arguing that there was no resistance by Arabs in 1947/1948?  They were all peaceful, unarmed civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> The British disarmed the Palestinians and expelled all their leaders in 1939. They had almost nothing. That is how Israel could expel 300,000 people in a few months. The Palestinians were defenseless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then how do you think they rose up again in 1947 against the Jews after the UN partition?
> 
> Or how do you think about the British actually fighting on the side of the Hashemite Kingdom and training them as well in order to attack Israel in May of 1948?
> 
> How did all of those weapons find their way to the Arabs?
> 
> (Uhmmmm, could there have been any "contraband")
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no UN partition you mindless chimpanzee...there was an ethnic-cleansing and 800, 000 Palestinian refugees created by the Jew cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your shrill screeching is a hoot.
> 
> The Arab-moslem “refugees” were the result of the Arab-Islamist invaders pushing aside the Arab-Moslem squatters. That gee-had to push the Jews into the sea with gunfire didn’t work out as planned for you Islamist invaders. You suffered a humiliating loss. Deal with your failures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ON A COLD WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches on a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from vast areas of the country. The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centers; setting fire to homes, properties, and goods; expelling residents; demolishing homes; and, finally, planting mines in the rubble to prevent the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued its own list of villages and neighborhoods to target in keeping with the master plan. Code-named Plan D (Dalet in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of vaguer plans outlining the fate that was in store for the native population of Palestine. The previous three plans had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership intended to deal with the presence of so many Palestinians on the land the Jewish national movement wanted for itself. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf
Click to expand...



This atrocity is what the scavengers call 'Israel's War of Independence"...even their lies are cowardly...the Jewish cowards who participated in this atrocity must've studied the ground tactics of the SS...


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Silver shekel of the First Jewish Revolt from Rome - Google Arts & Culture


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Silver shekel of the Second Jewish Revolt from Rome - Google Arts & Culture


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Ancient Jewish Silver Shekel Coin from Year 1 of the First Revolt - 66 AD


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians” 

History of the Jewish People Clay Tablet 'Jackpot' Reveals How Jews Lived in Babylon - NBC News


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> *"Palestinians don't exist"*
> 
> Somebody did not get Israel's bullshit memo.



Palestine: Bogus Roman name for Jews’ land. D’oh! No history of “palestinians”


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Surprising Mosaics Revealed in Ancient Synagogue in Israel


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Bible Scenes Uncovered in Ruins of Ancient Synagogue


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Lachish Letter I - Google Arts & Culture


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No history of “palestinians”
> 
> History of the Jewish People Surprising Mosaics Revealed in Ancient Synagogue in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When one pauses to consider the period of Palestinian majority residency in historic Palestine---the late 7th century to the mid-20th century---it is quite extraordinary that anyone would be stupid enough to post a statement that read: " No history of Palestinians'...but then I remind myself that stupidity and moral cowardice are the immutable signatures of these bottom-feeders...
Click to expand...

Where does one find this alleged "historic Pal'istan" as opposed to the "regular Pal'istan"?


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Lachish Letter II - Google Arts & Culture


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People The Hebrew Bible | The Story of the Jews | PBS


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What legal or ethical reasons are those?  That only majorities should have rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> So, for example, the Catalans, as a minority, are prohibited from having rights to self-determination, sovereignty and independence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
Click to expand...


Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.

If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did. 

Q. Why are You so stressed?


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Jewish minority being granted 56%  of land in a proposed nation where they cumulatively own less than 5% of the land???  To the obvious extent that they were not a 'dependent minority' they are not entitled to state 'independence"   You're hilarious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.
> 
> If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did.
> 
> Q. Why are You so stressed?
Click to expand...



'stressed'????  Don't you correctly mean amused/disgusted?  Apparently you share the same condition of historical ignorance common to your co-parrots...please permit me to assist: Arab-Palestinians constituted the overwhelming majority residents of Palestine from the late 7th century up to the midway of the 20th century...the problem with you scavengers is that you wrongly assume that you can 'occupy' documented history with the same brazen signatures with which you criminally occupy Palestinian lands...


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 56%?? How many times is with its' Palestinian majority Jordan bigger than Israel? How many times?
> 
> Knock-knock - do Indians own most of the land in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.
> 
> If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did.
> 
> Q. Why are You so stressed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 'stressed'????  Don't you correctly mean amused/disgusted?  Apparently you share the same condition of historical ignorance common to your co-parrots...please permit me to assist: Arab-Palestinians constituted the overwhelming majority residents of Palestine from the late 7th century up to the midway of the 20th century...the problem with you scavengers is that you wrongly assume that you can 'occupy' documented history with the same brazen signatures with which you criminally occupy Palestinian lands...
Click to expand...



Which of the Arab tribes dominated Palestine in the 7th century?

And while at it : what is the percentage of the Indigenous peoples in the Americas today, are they a majority?


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is irrelevant to historic Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.
> 
> If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did.
> 
> Q. Why are You so stressed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 'stressed'????  Don't you correctly mean amused/disgusted?  Apparently you share the same condition of historical ignorance common to your co-parrots...please permit me to assist: Arab-Palestinians constituted the overwhelming majority residents of Palestine from the late 7th century up to the midway of the 20th century...the problem with you scavengers is that you wrongly assume that you can 'occupy' documented history with the same brazen signatures with which you criminally occupy Palestinian lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which of the Arab tribes dominated Palestine in the 7th century?
> 
> And while at it : what is the percentage of the Indigenous peoples in the Americas today, are they a majority?
Click to expand...



Both questions are entirely irrelevant to the 12 centuries of residency rights of native Palestinians...as for the weak argument for native Americans, guess what low-brow? When White European Christians---the same strain which support Israeli crimes---were busy slaughtering native American tribes there was no recognized form of international law or property rights...this was not the case in 1948...I eagerly await your next pre-scripted bit of idiocy...


----------



## rylah

From a Palestinian institute

Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile

History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf





*

*Shammar tribe*

The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrianpopulation thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why because it has a Palestinian majority?
> Because it's 100% Palestinian Arab state, where Jews were not allowed to live?
> 
> Arabs received much more than half the land already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.
> 
> If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did.
> 
> Q. Why are You so stressed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 'stressed'????  Don't you correctly mean amused/disgusted?  Apparently you share the same condition of historical ignorance common to your co-parrots...please permit me to assist: Arab-Palestinians constituted the overwhelming majority residents of Palestine from the late 7th century up to the midway of the 20th century...the problem with you scavengers is that you wrongly assume that you can 'occupy' documented history with the same brazen signatures with which you criminally occupy Palestinian lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which of the Arab tribes dominated Palestine in the 7th century?
> 
> And while at it : what is the percentage of the Indigenous peoples in the Americas today, are they a majority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Both questions are entirely irrelevant to the 12 centuries of residency rights of native Palestinians...as for the weak argument for native Americans, guess what low-brow? When White European Christians---the same strain which support Israeli crimes---were busy slaughtering native American tribes there was no recognized form of international law or property rights...this was not the case in 1948...I eagerly await your next pre-scripted bit of idiocy...
Click to expand...


I never denied Palestinian Arabs had rights to live in the land, as much as Americans have rights due to longstanding presence. It's the Arabs who openly admit "Jews are not allowed".

But with international law, or without it - Arabs didn't become a majority in Palestine by peaceful means.


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> From a Palestinian institute
> 
> Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile
> 
> History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
> http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Shammar tribe*
> 
> The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrianpopulation thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
> In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.




apologies but your point escapes me...how does this information in any way alter the majority Arab demographic of Palestine or the ethnic-cleaning offensive it fell victim to under the onslaught of Zionist terror?


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> From a Palestinian institute
> 
> Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile
> 
> History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
> http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Shammar tribe*
> 
> The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrianpopulation thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
> In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apologies but your point escapes me...how does this information in any way alter the majority Arab demographic of Palestine or the ethnic-cleaning offensive it fell victim to under the onslaught of Zionist terror?
Click to expand...


It actually exemplifies how Arabs become a majority in Palestine, and how they still identify as the colonizing invaders.


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typically you bottom-feeders assume that this level of flipping psychology is fool-proof---all the more pathetic...indeed the minority of Jews are permitted to 'live' in Palestine as was the case---NOT TO RAVAGE THE MAJORITY POPULATION AND STEAL FROM AND EXPEL 800,000 NATIVE PALESTINIANS...any questions Gestapo-girl???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.
> 
> If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did.
> 
> Q. Why are You so stressed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 'stressed'????  Don't you correctly mean amused/disgusted?  Apparently you share the same condition of historical ignorance common to your co-parrots...please permit me to assist: Arab-Palestinians constituted the overwhelming majority residents of Palestine from the late 7th century up to the midway of the 20th century...the problem with you scavengers is that you wrongly assume that you can 'occupy' documented history with the same brazen signatures with which you criminally occupy Palestinian lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which of the Arab tribes dominated Palestine in the 7th century?
> 
> And while at it : what is the percentage of the Indigenous peoples in the Americas today, are they a majority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Both questions are entirely irrelevant to the 12 centuries of residency rights of native Palestinians...as for the weak argument for native Americans, guess what low-brow? When White European Christians---the same strain which support Israeli crimes---were busy slaughtering native American tribes there was no recognized form of international law or property rights...this was not the case in 1948...I eagerly await your next pre-scripted bit of idiocy...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never denied Palestinian Arabs had rights to live in the land, as much as Americans have rights due to longstanding presence. It's the Arabs who openly admit "Jews are not allowed".
> 
> But with international law, or without it - Arabs didn't become a majority in Palestine by peaceful means.
Click to expand...



no stupid...not that 'Jews are not allowed"...Jews are a minority who have no legal or ethical right to impose their designs on a majority Arab population...


----------



## Ventura77

rylah said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> From a Palestinian institute
> 
> Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile
> 
> History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
> http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Shammar tribe*
> 
> The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrianpopulation thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
> In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apologies but your point escapes me...how does this information in any way alter the majority Arab demographic of Palestine or the ethnic-cleaning offensive it fell victim to under the onslaught of Zionist terror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually exemplifies how Arabs become a majority in Palestine, and how they still identify with the invaders.
Click to expand...




once again for the impenetrably dense: your argument is with Ben Gurion & company...good luck with that...LOL


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People Dead Sea Scrolls – Cultural Institute


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab tribes were as much "natives" as the average US citizen is a native of Milwaukee.
> 
> If You apply team Palestine logic, then it was a natural conclusion of all the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews. They had the right to resist, and they eventually did.
> 
> Q. Why are You so stressed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'stressed'????  Don't you correctly mean amused/disgusted?  Apparently you share the same condition of historical ignorance common to your co-parrots...please permit me to assist: Arab-Palestinians constituted the overwhelming majority residents of Palestine from the late 7th century up to the midway of the 20th century...the problem with you scavengers is that you wrongly assume that you can 'occupy' documented history with the same brazen signatures with which you criminally occupy Palestinian lands...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which of the Arab tribes dominated Palestine in the 7th century?
> 
> And while at it : what is the percentage of the Indigenous peoples in the Americas today, are they a majority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Both questions are entirely irrelevant to the 12 centuries of residency rights of native Palestinians...as for the weak argument for native Americans, guess what low-brow? When White European Christians---the same strain which support Israeli crimes---were busy slaughtering native American tribes there was no recognized form of international law or property rights...this was not the case in 1948...I eagerly await your next pre-scripted bit of idiocy...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never denied Palestinian Arabs had rights to live in the land, as much as Americans have rights due to longstanding presence. It's the Arabs who openly admit "Jews are not allowed".
> 
> But with international law, or without it - Arabs didn't become a majority in Palestine by peaceful means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no stupid...not that 'Jews are not allowed"...Jews are a minority who have no legal or ethical right to impose their designs on a majority Arab population...
Click to expand...


Exactly that - "Jews are not allowed":


*So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—*

Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.

*Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?*

Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after.

MAEN RASHID AREIKAT - Palestinian Ambassador


----------



## rylah

Ventura77 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> From a Palestinian institute
> 
> Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile
> 
> History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
> http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Shammar tribe*
> 
> The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrianpopulation thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
> In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apologies but your point escapes me...how does this information in any way alter the majority Arab demographic of Palestine or the ethnic-cleaning offensive it fell victim to under the onslaught of Zionist terror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually exemplifies how Arabs become a majority in Palestine, and how they still identify with the invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again for the impenetrably dense: your argument is with Ben Gurion & company...good luck with that...LOL
Click to expand...


----------



## JoelT1

No history of “palestinians”

History of the Jewish People


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs laugh: “Palestinians” are fake


----------



## flacaltenn

*This thread has been here for a couple years. It's TITLE remains the same. If posts dont address that concept, they should not be in THIS thread. NOTHING in the discussion should EVER be concerned with any political or social issues in the region AFTER the creation of the State of Israel. Except for discussion of how and where historically linked Palestinians live today.  Battle in OTHER threads about everything else. 

The thread and the violators have one more chance to discuss the topic. Otherwise, warnings will go out for PAST (or future) infractions. *


----------



## flacaltenn

bump


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...Jews are a minority who have no legal or ethical right to impose their designs on a majority Arab population...



rylah 

Ventura has taken the extremist view that no minority has rights to self-determination, sovereignty or independence -- that those rights belong only to the majority populations.  

Therefore, no rights to the Catalans, the Tibetans, the Kurds, the First Nations peoples and many others.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Jews are a minority who have no legal or ethical right to impose their designs on a majority Arab population...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah
> 
> Ventura has taken the extremist view that no minority has rights to self-determination, sovereignty or independence -- that those rights belong only to the majority populations.
> 
> Therefore, no rights to the Catalans, the Tibetans, the Kurds, the First Nations peoples and many others.
Click to expand...



Oh may bad...what was I thinking??? Of course a minority of Jews inhere the right to usurp the residency and property rights of the majority, expel 800,000 of them...loot their homes and property and declare a new state....not sure where this putative right is inscribed but I'll take your word for it...no 'extremist view' in these actions huh?  You must be sorrowfully warped...


----------



## JoelT1

History of the Jewish People Clay Tablet 'Jackpot' Reveals How Jews Lived in Babylon - NBC News

No history of “palestinians”


----------



## Boston1

There's no history of the palestinian people because there are no palestinian people. What we have  is a conglomeration of recent Arabic speaking immigrants from the North African area that have no common background. That and the area was Southern Syria and the people considered themselves Syrian under Ottoman rule until Jordan was invented and now they are Jordanian. Ask the Jordanian king ;-)

Israel on the other hand is a homogenous group of people carrying specific genetic markers, sharing a language and culture as well as a religion unique to that culture. So yeah, clearly a unique people.


----------



## abi

That sounds like a scripted answer and is historically inaccurate.



Boston1 said:


> Israel on the other hand is a homogenous group of people carrying specific genetic markers


This has never been shown.

Actually, I just posted a scientific paper on this very idea.

*Results*
 
Given the large number of scientific studies proclaiming that Jews are distinguishable from non-Jews (e.g., Need et al., 2009), we were surprised that only two individuals accepted the challenge. *Both individuals have failed to correctly identify even a single Jewish individual.* No criticism on the benchmark was received. 23andMe’s representative refused to participate in the challenge.
In Search of the jüdische Typus: A Proposed Benchmark to Test the Genetic Basis of Jewishness Challenges Notions of “Jewish Biomarkers”


----------



## JoelT1

History of the Jewish People The Hebrew Bible | The Story of the Jews | PBS

No history of “palestinians”


----------



## abi

JoelT1 said:


> No history of “palestinians”


That's an odd thing to assert. And then, what the heck is going here:


----------



## JoelT1

History of the Jewish People The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

No history of “palestinians”


----------



## Shusha

Boston1 said:


> There's no history of the palestinian people because there are no palestinian people. What we have  is a conglomeration of recent Arabic speaking immigrants from the North African area that have no common background. That and the area was Southern Syria and the people considered themselves Syrian under Ottoman rule until Jordan was invented and now they are Jordanian. Ask the Jordanian king ;-)
> 
> Israel on the other hand is a homogenous group of people carrying specific genetic markers, sharing a language and culture as well as a religion unique to that culture. So yeah, clearly a unique people.



The fundamental question as here, as is relevant to the Arab/Israel conflict, is how rights are determined.  And the criteria seems to be discriminatory -- with Jews having to prove some sort of "correct" DNA or pass some sort of cultural test while the Arab Palestinians are subjected to no such measurements.


----------



## JoelT1

History of the Jewish People Merneptah Stele

No history of “palestinians”


----------



## JoelT1

Boston1 said:


> There's no history of the palestinian people because there are no palestinian people. What we have  is a conglomeration of recent Arabic speaking immigrants from the North African area that have no common background. That and the area was Southern Syria and the people considered themselves Syrian under Ottoman rule until Jordan was invented and now they are Jordanian. Ask the Jordanian king ;-)
> 
> Israel on the other hand is a homogenous group of people carrying specific genetic markers, sharing a language and culture as well as a religion unique to that culture. So yeah, clearly a unique people.



No palestinian people? Who knew?


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians and where did they come from?


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Who are the palestinians and where did they come from?




Typically idiotic Jewish propaganda...please take an elective in mid-east history at the nearest community college...good grief the idiocy


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Boston1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no history of the palestinian people because there are no palestinian people. What we have  is a conglomeration of recent Arabic speaking immigrants from the North African area that have no common background. That and the area was Southern Syria and the people considered themselves Syrian under Ottoman rule until Jordan was invented and now they are Jordanian. Ask the Jordanian king ;-)
> 
> Israel on the other hand is a homogenous group of people carrying specific genetic markers, sharing a language and culture as well as a religion unique to that culture. So yeah, clearly a unique people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No palestinian people? Who knew?
Click to expand...




once again Joel, your argument is with people like Hiam Weitzman, Theodore Herzl, Menachem Begin and David Ben Gurion...explain to them in detail that they were conspiring to remove a people that didn't exist...


----------



## Sixties Fan

{These are the Partners for Peace ]

investigative report (excerpted here) on the negotiations between Israel, the US and the Palestinians in 2013 and 2014.

The report shows that Netanyahu approved a framework, created by John Kerry and his team, that would have resulted in a Palestinian state based on the 1967 lines with land swaps. When it was presented to Mahmoud Abbas, he angrily rejected it.

When Kerry came back with a sweeter offer that addressed Abbas' concerns - without consulting the Israelis - Abbas never responded and let the talks die.

This story, published in an ultra-left wing newspaper, it the biggest news story of the year for Israel.

It proves that Netanyahu is far more flexible towards a two-state solution than any reporter has ever written. It proves that Abbas is more intransigent and uninterested in peace than any reporter is willing to admit.

It completely up-ends the conventional wisdom about Israel and the Palestinians.

(full article online)

The biggest Israel-related story of the decade that no one (right or left) wants you to know ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[This is Fatah, the Party of Abbas, who is the moderate Arab Partner for Peace with Israel .
Palestinians do not have an army?  ]

Fatah glorifies the second Intifada in which over 1,000 Israelis were murdered
and promises more terror

"The only way to freedom and liberation is resistance to the occupier... There is no honor for the weak." [Mahmoud Abbas' Advisor, Sultan Abu Al-Einein]

"Resistance until the return [of the refugees], the state, and self determination.' 
  [Fatah Central Committee member Tawfiq Tirawi]






(full article oniine)

Fatah glorifies the second Intifada, promises more terror - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Art__Allm

JoelT1 said:


> BTW, “Semitic” applies to languages, not to “tribes” Now you know



In this case Ashkenazi are not Semites at all, because their native language was Yiddish, a bastardised Slavic language in which Slavic words were replaced with German words, but the Slavic grammatical structure remained. 

The Jewish linguist Paul Wexler wrote a book about it.

The term "Anti-Semitism" is an idiotic term, because Ashkenazi are not Semites, their spoken language was neither Semitic, nor oriental.

Ivrith is an invented language, like Esperanto, no ancestors of Ashkenazi ever spoke this language.


----------



## JoelT1

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, “Semitic” applies to languages, not to “tribes” Now you know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this case Ashkenazi are not Semites at all, because their native language was Yiddish, a bastardised Slavic language in which Slavic words were replaced with German words, but the Slavic grammatical structure remained.
> 
> The Jewish linguist Paul Wexler wrote a book about it.
> 
> The term "Anti-Semitism" is an idiotic term, because Ashkenazi are not Semites, their spoken language was neither Semitic, nor oriental.
> 
> Ivrith is an invented language, like Esperanto, no ancestors of Ashkenazi ever spoke this language.
Click to expand...


You know less than nothing.

Semitic applies to languages only. There is no such thing as semites

Go back to sleep


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, “Semitic” applies to languages, not to “tribes” Now you know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this case Ashkenazi are not Semites at all, because their native language was Yiddish, a bastardised Slavic language in which Slavic words were replaced with German words, but the Slavic grammatical structure remained.
> 
> The Jewish linguist Paul Wexler wrote a book about it.
> 
> The term "Anti-Semitism" is an idiotic term, because Ashkenazi are not Semites, their spoken language was neither Semitic, nor oriental.
> 
> Ivrith is an invented language, like Esperanto, no ancestors of Ashkenazi ever spoke this language.
Click to expand...

Oh, knowledgeable Master, do point us to the links which prove that ALL Jews in Europe had origins in Europe itself and did not come from Asia as far back as the destruction of the First Temple.

Yeah, Ivrit is an invented language, just like Arabic, English, Farsi, 
Latin, Greek, Aramaic, etc.
It was invented by the people who became known for it thousands of years ago.


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs ask: Where did palestinians come from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian teen caught smuggling knife into Hebron’s Tomb of the Patriarchs


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> {These are the Partners for Peace ]
> 
> investigative report (excerpted here) on the negotiations between Israel, the US and the Palestinians in 2013 and 2014.
> 
> The report shows that Netanyahu approved a framework, created by John Kerry and his team, that would have resulted in a Palestinian state based on the 1967 lines with land swaps. When it was presented to Mahmoud Abbas, he angrily rejected it.
> 
> When Kerry came back with a sweeter offer that addressed Abbas' concerns - without consulting the Israelis - Abbas never responded and let the talks die.
> 
> This story, published in an ultra-left wing newspaper, it the biggest news story of the year for Israel.
> 
> It proves that Netanyahu is far more flexible towards a two-state solution than any reporter has ever written. It proves that Abbas is more intransigent and uninterested in peace than any reporter is willing to admit.
> 
> It completely up-ends the conventional wisdom about Israel and the Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The biggest Israel-related story of the decade that no one (right or left) wants you to know ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



The story is pure bullshit...perhaps you can explain the brazen settlement expansion of the same period?   The last thing that Netanyahu wants is 'peace'...he wants what every Israeli leader has wanted: to steal more land...build more illegal settlements, and suck more billions out of U.S. taxpayers!


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Boston1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no history of the palestinian people because there are no palestinian people. What we have  is a conglomeration of recent Arabic speaking immigrants from the North African area that have no common background. That and the area was Southern Syria and the people considered themselves Syrian under Ottoman rule until Jordan was invented and now they are Jordanian. Ask the Jordanian king ;-)
> 
> Israel on the other hand is a homogenous group of people carrying specific genetic markers, sharing a language and culture as well as a religion unique to that culture. So yeah, clearly a unique people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No palestinian people? Who knew?
Click to expand...




ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!   a claim which raises the inexorable question: who exactly did pre-state Zionist leaders conspire to expel from Palestine?  No doubt you've heard the word ( CENSUS )????


----------



## Sixties Fan

In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:

 Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.

“The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.

If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."

The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:

(full article online)

"If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Five-year-old smuggles phones to terrorist father


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reconciliation, Anyone? PA, Hamas, Again Fighting over Military Control of Gaza Strip | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 19 Heshvan 5778 – November 8, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Spokesperson Dr. Musab Abu Arkoub called on the Islamic Umma to "assume its responsibilities and move their armies immediately to uproot the Jewish entity and liberate the blessed land."

The statement itself isn't surprising (although it is interesting that Hizb ut-Tahrir accepts that Israel is the "Jewish" entity, not the "Zionist" entity, so it doesn't hide its Jew-hatred.)

But the fact is that practically every single Arab agrees with every word. The only reason they don't attack Israel is because they would lose. It isn't moderation or a desire for peace that causes stability in the Middle East - it is Israel's strength.

That is one of the basic facts that most of the world chooses to ignore.

(full article online)

"All of Israel is an illegal settlement" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA resumes security coordination with Israel


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
Click to expand...


You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
Click to expand...




LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
Click to expand...

<<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>

Dates and links  !!!


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
Click to expand...


You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians? Palestine referred to Philistines, who were Greek invaders. So-called palestinians are Arabs.

Arabs identify as Greek invaders?


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
Click to expand...



Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
Click to expand...




There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
Click to expand...




There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL
Click to expand...


I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an article about how some Palestinian Arabs are biased against their "refugee" brethren, it says:
> 
> Ghassan Weshah, head of the history and archaeology department at the Islamic University of Gaza, says the role of institutions supporting refugees should not be reduced to simply providing relief. UNRWA, he notes as an example, plays an important relief role, especially as the general economic situation has deteriorated in Palestine. But its function is more than economic.
> 
> “The responsibility of UNRWA is to help refugees, but it must also continue this work to remind the world of the refugee issue and the right of return._ If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over._”In two sentences, Weshah accurately describes UNRWA's real purpose - not to help refugees but to perpetuate them.
> 
> If it would disappear or merge with UNHCR, the UN organization for all the other refugees in the world, then the refugee issue would go "poof."
> 
> The article mentions how the Palestinians resent their UNRWA-supported fellows:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "If UNRWA goes, the refugee issue is over" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
Click to expand...


You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.

The Israelis had no vote to lose. 

You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
Click to expand...




And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)

I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
Click to expand...


Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances. 

Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief? 

You really should educate yourself to the facts.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right because ethnic-cleansing doesn't really generate any 'refugee issues'...I can only marvel at the mindless determination to lie and distort facts that essentially make Zionist Jews a pack of ruthless pirates and cowards...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
Click to expand...




LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...


Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
Click to expand...



ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can thank your Islamist heroes for the "refugee crisis". Arab armies crossing the frontier as a part of their gee-had to destroy Israel pushed aside the hapless Arab-Moslem squatters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You poor dear. You're in denial of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier, pushing aside the Arab squatters and israel subsequently putting the _had_ in gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
Click to expand...


Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently. 

Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.  

You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!  It must be such a blessing to be able to flip reality on its head huh? Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began...hence your argument is with people like Ben Gurion...Begin...Dayan...etc...etc.  Good luck with that!!!
> 
> 
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no greater definition of irony than the spectacle of some crude Zionist propaganda-parrot delivering their spate of lies with the smugness of a fictional academic pedigree...these so-called 'Arab armies' were fragmented Syrian and Egyptian troops whose combined force was estimated at 40,000...the Zio/Gestapo forces numbered 125,000...so much for the 'heroic triumph' of the Jews over astronomical Arab numbers---literally everything Jews repeat is a scandalous lie...but then I remind myself that the facts really don't offer them much...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
Click to expand...



Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:

#1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...

#2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...

#3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?

#4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...


#5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
Click to expand...


Your silly tirades are a hoot. 

What a shame you choose ignorance when folks here have tried to help you. I can only take your ignorance to mean you _choose_ to be, you know, ignorant. If you had taken the time to do your homework you would have discovered that reso 181 passed affirmatively at the UN. To ease your learning curve, that means the resolution was past by the GA. That was positive for the Jewish population, but of course the Arabs-Moslems did what Arabs-Moslems do when events don’t go their way and they resorted to violence. As I explained to you, there was no vote the Israelis lost.

You can thank me now or later for helping to ease your frailties.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> <<Israel did not yet exist when the Zionist ethnic-cleansing began.>>
> 
> Dates and links  !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take that tirade to mean that you don't dispute the facts of the combined Arab armies crossing their frontiers and displacing the Arab-Moslem squatters, you're just hoping to avoid addressing it with another round of pointless piffle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
Click to expand...


I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand. 

When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who pays Palestinian rock-throwers?


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....



This is just foolishness.  The audacity of the Arabs (and their useful idiots) to say that a nation simply does not exist is beyond reason.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly tirades are a hoot.
> 
> What a shame you choose ignorance when folks here have tried to help you. I can only take your ignorance to mean you _choose_ to be, you know, ignorant. If you had taken the time to do your homework you would have discovered that reso 181 passed affirmatively at the UN. To ease your learning curve, that means the resolution was past by the GA. That was positive for the Jewish population, but of course the Arabs-Moslems did what Arabs-Moslems do when events don’t go their way and they resorted to violence. As I explained to you, there was no vote the Israelis lost.
> 
> You can thank me now or later for helping to ease your frailties.
Click to expand...




Wrong yet again low-brow...without the positive vote of the Arab states and India 181 could not be executed...did you forget 'non-binding' ? BTW:  still waiting on that link which satisfies your absurd claim that Arab armies were responsible for the ethnic cleansing...no doubt merely an oversight...


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is just foolishness.  The audacity of the Arabs (and their useful idiots) to say that a nation simply does not exist is beyond reason.
Click to expand...



And look who talks of 'foolishness'...a career liar and propagandist...Israel = Occupied Palestine


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
Click to expand...



...and why might I need help from a liar who cannot prove anything she posts?


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really that's news to you bumpkin? The Jews lost the 181 vote and executed Plan-D...there was no Israel when the ethnic-cleansing/terror offensive began, there was no recognition of Israel because Israel didn't exist...the brazen Jews had occupied all of the Arab towns and villages appointed to the Palestinians in 181...the so-called 'Arab armies' didn't enter the fray until days after the Zionist pirates embarked on their criminal ethnic cleansing...Egyptian and Syrian forces COMBINED were estimated at 40,000 contrast by Zionist terror groups and ancillary Zionist forces estimated in excess of 125,000...so much for the fairy-tale of the 'brave Jews' winning over astronomical number of Arab armies...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, once again for the benefit of the chronic learning-impaired, by the time the neighboring states intervened--only Syria and Egypt---following the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine. (And how can Arab irregulars attack Israel before Israel existed?)
> 
> I marvel at the sheer idiocy required to refer to native Palestinians as 'squatters'...13 successive centuries is one long 'squat' low-brow...I hope they pay more than minimum-wage for you to post lies 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
Click to expand...




Yes of course 'frontiers' is such an esoteric word...LOL


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and why might I need help from a liar who cannot prove anything she posts?
Click to expand...


.....because you need help learning what befuddles you.


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing of the facts. General Assembly resolution 181 was non-binding. G.A. resolutions have no force of law.
> 
> The Israelis had no vote to lose.
> 
> You had no facts to present. But, no one's surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Denying the fact of the combined Arab armies crossing the frontier suggests you're simply fact-averse. Your usual, silly tirades really don't provide cover for your abysmal lack of knowledge surrounding the circumstances.
> 
> Haven't you get discovered that your baseless ".... because I say so", outbursts are met with a great deal of cynicism and more often, outright disbelief?
> 
> You really should educate yourself to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes of course 'frontiers' is such an esoteric word...LOL
Click to expand...


It has a definition you don’t understand or comprehend.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and why might I need help from a liar who cannot prove anything she posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....because you need help learning what befuddles you.
Click to expand...



You appear to be projecting once again...


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...if it was 'non-binding'---as I have already stated innumerable times, then the agreement of both parties was the only lever to execute it...in your brazen idiocy you imply that SOMEHOW Jews were entirely justified in expelling 800,000 native Palestinians and stealing their property and land. You do understand that 181 was put up for a vote right dummy?...voting implies loss or win...good god go back to school and try for a C...
> ROTFLMAO    I have most likely forgotten more of the relevant facts involved than a mindless parrot like you is ever likely to learn...again your argument is with Zionist leaders who contradict the 'heroic battle against Arab hordes' narrative...let's face it lies are all you can spout because the truth doesn't offer you much...yeah 40,000 Egyptian and Syrian troops against 125,000 Zionist troops---mostly terrorist groups like Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, Stern Gang....cowardly Jew thugs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes of course 'frontiers' is such an esoteric word...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has a definition you don’t understand or comprehend.
Click to expand...




No doubt in your febrile, atrophied brain perhaps


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such an angry, Louie. As you’re having difficulty, Im happy to jump in and lend an assist. As you were told, GA resolutions are non-binding and carry no weight of law. As you should have learned by now, resolution 181 was never implemented. I’m shocked you are still so ignorant regarding the facts. There was no vote to lose. Your childish outbursts would be an embarrassment to anyone but you, apparently.
> 
> Lastly, I’m glad you recognize the fact that the combined Arab armies moved past the frontiers and were the aggressors. That aggressive force was, in large part responsible for the uprooting of so many arab squatters. The aggressors, were, in fact, delivered a humiliating defeat. That pains you. Deal with it. You people would go on to lose more wars of aggression and suffer similar humiliating defeats.
> 
> You can deny these facts to yourself but your lacking regarding the historical record is your own fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and why might I need help from a liar who cannot prove anything she posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....because you need help learning what befuddles you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You appear to be projecting once again...
Click to expand...


You are befuddled, as usual.


----------



## JoelT1

Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again...at least your consistent...let's list your errors in order of execution:
> 
> #1  I am not angry, merely a combo of disgusted amusement...but if it pleases you to believe that you make me angry knock yourself out...
> 
> #2  I an not 'Louie'...again if it pleases you to indulge this delusion by all means...
> 
> #3  Apparently you cannot grasp the significance of the word 'vote'...permit me---I briefly worked with retarded adults like you---why continue to state the obvious as to 'GA resolutions?  The Zionists participated in the 'vote' for 181, anticipating an Arab rejection...please explain how a criminal ethnic cleansing of the native population establishes the basis for a declaration of statehood?  To say that 'there was no vote to lose' reveals the extent of your ignorance...has no one explained that Zionists participated in the 'vote' dummy?
> 
> #4  There were no 'frontiers' because there was no recognized nation of Israel...does this register yet or shall I employ a set of IQ-appropriate crayon graphics?  The Syrian and Egyptian forces engaged the numerical superior Zionist terror militias...I absolutely delight at you lie that Egyptian and Syrian forces conducted the ethnic cleansing...I am literally wasting my time even answering a lying parrot like you...please try to prove one word of the nausea you posted...go ahead I'll wait right here...
> 
> 
> #5   THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ISRAEL...there is only occupied Palestine....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the term frontiers for a reason. You don’t understand.
> 
> When you need help, raise your hand and ask for help. You will be raising your hand a lot. That’s fine. However, demanding that everyone on a public discussion board acknowledge your self-imposed limitations is not necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and why might I need help from a liar who cannot prove anything she posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....because you need help learning what befuddles you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You appear to be projecting once again...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are befuddled, as usual.
Click to expand...




Projecting again...running low of BS?


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language




wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????
Click to expand...


Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who? 

Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders. 

You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to police, the suspect told the officers that the bag was not his, but that the knives were going to be used to carry out a terror attack.

(full article online)

Palestinian nabbed outside settlement with meat cleaver, Quran


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Shin Bet Seizes Ramallah Weed Lab Disguised as Wedding Hall | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 20 Heshvan 5778 – November 9, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## JoelT1

Myth of palestinians http://www.wnd.com/2000/10/1696/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs throw stones at bus near Tekoa, reports show massive increase in rock attacks.

(full article online)

Four murder attempts in an hour as attacks increase


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs admit: palestinians do not exist Palestinian people do not exist


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who?
> 
> Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders.
> 
> You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.
Click to expand...


Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...

BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who?
> 
> Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders.
> 
> You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...
> 
> BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL
Click to expand...


As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.

Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who?
> 
> Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders.
> 
> You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...
> 
> BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.
> 
> Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.
Click to expand...



As counter-noted you aren't too swift at basic literacy either...7th century to mid-twentieth century mongoloid...your tiny spun-atrophied brain has been so thoroughly saturated by the mind-numbing Hasbara disciplines that you scarcely communicate reality...the sad part is that you are sufficiently stupid to assume that your spate of cheap deflections and evasions---'your tirades...Islamo blablabla---actually work.  Has no one explained to you that these tactics merely reduce you to pathetic? A brain is a terrible thing to waste...wink, wink!


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/multimedia/video-picks/ari-in-a-car-with-a-palestinian-driver/2017/11/08/


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get this: No p in Arabic, so “palestinians” who are really Arabs can’t write or say “palestinian” or “palestine” in their own Arabic language
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who?
> 
> Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders.
> 
> You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...
> 
> BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.
> 
> Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As counter-noted you aren't too swift at basic literacy either...7th century to mid-twentieth century mongoloid...your tiny spun-atrophied brain has been so thoroughly saturated by the mind-numbing Hasbara disciplines that you scarcely communicate reality...the sad part is that you are sufficiently stupid to assume that your spate of cheap deflections and evasions---'your tirades...Islamo blablabla---actually work.  Has no one explained to you that these tactics merely reduce you to pathetic? A brain is a terrible thing to waste...wink, wink!
Click to expand...


I've noticed that your stereotypical tactic is to slog through these saliva slinging, juvenile tirades when your attempt at argument is totally eviscerated. You could gain a bit more respect if you perhaps set yourself on fire?


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow!!!!!  I guess you just wiped out 13 centuries of residency with that devastating observation...how can we fight such genius????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who?
> 
> Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders.
> 
> You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...
> 
> BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.
> 
> Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As counter-noted you aren't too swift at basic literacy either...7th century to mid-twentieth century mongoloid...your tiny spun-atrophied brain has been so thoroughly saturated by the mind-numbing Hasbara disciplines that you scarcely communicate reality...the sad part is that you are sufficiently stupid to assume that your spate of cheap deflections and evasions---'your tirades...Islamo blablabla---actually work.  Has no one explained to you that these tactics merely reduce you to pathetic? A brain is a terrible thing to waste...wink, wink!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've noticed that your stereotypical tactic is to slog through these saliva slinging, juvenile tirades when your attempt at argument is totally eviscerated. You could gain a bit more respect if you perhaps set yourself on fire?
Click to expand...




Gosh that is odd because for the life of me I cannot isolate the part of the thread where 'my argument is totally eviscerated'...obviously yet another symptom of your chronic self-delusion...empty swag and convulsive puerile gibberish are indeed your signatures, as previously observed you seem to actually believe that you gain credibility rather than hilarity...it is a reliable axiom that any putative defender of Israel cannot reference the truth...I've yet to encounter one of you viral slugs who could even accidentally brush up against the truth...and the explanation is hardly shrouded in secrecy: the truth is your enemy, hence you are predisposed to devote your immoral energies to lies so absurd and pathetic that they might foment convulsive laughter from a fifth-grader...lies are all you low-brow bottom-feeders can post...keep spinning and I'll keep laughing~!!!!


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another of your silly slogans. 13 centuries of residency by who?
> 
> Had you known anything of the history surrounding the area, you would have known of at least three separate conquests undertaken by the Turks, Mongols and Christian Crusaders.
> 
> You are the source of a great deal of laughter with your silly slogans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...
> 
> BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.
> 
> Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As counter-noted you aren't too swift at basic literacy either...7th century to mid-twentieth century mongoloid...your tiny spun-atrophied brain has been so thoroughly saturated by the mind-numbing Hasbara disciplines that you scarcely communicate reality...the sad part is that you are sufficiently stupid to assume that your spate of cheap deflections and evasions---'your tirades...Islamo blablabla---actually work.  Has no one explained to you that these tactics merely reduce you to pathetic? A brain is a terrible thing to waste...wink, wink!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've noticed that your stereotypical tactic is to slog through these saliva slinging, juvenile tirades when your attempt at argument is totally eviscerated. You could gain a bit more respect if you perhaps set yourself on fire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh that is odd because for the life of me I cannot isolate the part of the thread where 'my argument is totally eviscerated'...obviously yet another symptom of your chronic self-delusion...empty swag and convulsive puerile gibberish are indeed your signatures, as previously observed you seem to actually believe that you gain credibility rather than hilarity...it is a reliable axiom that any putative defender of Israel cannot reference the truth...I've yet to encounter one of you viral slugs who could even accidentally brush up against the truth...and the explanation is hardly shrouded in secrecy: the truth is your enemy, hence you are predisposed to devote your immoral energies to lies so absurd and pathetic that they might foment convulsive laughter from a fifth-grader...lies are all you low-brow bottom-feeders can post...keep spinning and I'll keep laughing~!!!!
Click to expand...


Your tirades are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

Islamism and child abuse.

It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.


Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins

Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">



Share |

*Palestinian children commit terror attacks
to enhance their status in society*

by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently in addition to being a demonstrable F-student in history you have problems with math as well...Arab Palestinian residency goes back to the late period of the 7th century drool queen...you need to calm down and stop spewing laughable lies here...if someone is paying you to do this that would reduce you to the status of an immoral propaganda-parrot, on the other hand if this is a sample of your pathetic hilariously distorted knowledge-base you must hold the IQ of sand...any time you require assistance I'll be only too happy to help...as previously explained I pulled a brief stint working with retarded adults, therefore I recognize the signatures...
> 
> BTW: Turks and Mongols are part of the prevalent DNA of contemporary Israelis...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.
> 
> Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As counter-noted you aren't too swift at basic literacy either...7th century to mid-twentieth century mongoloid...your tiny spun-atrophied brain has been so thoroughly saturated by the mind-numbing Hasbara disciplines that you scarcely communicate reality...the sad part is that you are sufficiently stupid to assume that your spate of cheap deflections and evasions---'your tirades...Islamo blablabla---actually work.  Has no one explained to you that these tactics merely reduce you to pathetic? A brain is a terrible thing to waste...wink, wink!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've noticed that your stereotypical tactic is to slog through these saliva slinging, juvenile tirades when your attempt at argument is totally eviscerated. You could gain a bit more respect if you perhaps set yourself on fire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh that is odd because for the life of me I cannot isolate the part of the thread where 'my argument is totally eviscerated'...obviously yet another symptom of your chronic self-delusion...empty swag and convulsive puerile gibberish are indeed your signatures, as previously observed you seem to actually believe that you gain credibility rather than hilarity...it is a reliable axiom that any putative defender of Israel cannot reference the truth...I've yet to encounter one of you viral slugs who could even accidentally brush up against the truth...and the explanation is hardly shrouded in secrecy: the truth is your enemy, hence you are predisposed to devote your immoral energies to lies so absurd and pathetic that they might foment convulsive laughter from a fifth-grader...lies are all you low-brow bottom-feeders can post...keep spinning and I'll keep laughing~!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your tirades are a hoot.
Click to expand...




See definition below...you misuse the word Hollie, a clear indication of insufficient education or low-IQ---or both!!!

ti·rade
ˈtīˌrād/
_noun_

a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.
"a tirade of abuse"
synonyms: diatribe, harangue, rant, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, condemnation, censure, invective, criticism, tongue-lashing; More


----------



## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Islamism and child abuse.
> 
> It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.
> 
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> 
> 
> 
> Share |
> 
> *Palestinian children commit terror attacks
> to enhance their status in society*
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
> For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."





..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?


----------



## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As noted, you quickly put on your islamo-dancing shoes and retreated from identifying who has had 13 centuries of residency in your invented "country of Pal'istan". You did, of course, acknowledge the various invaders I identified for you who have colonized the area thus contributing to the population churn.
> 
> Now would be a good time to wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As counter-noted you aren't too swift at basic literacy either...7th century to mid-twentieth century mongoloid...your tiny spun-atrophied brain has been so thoroughly saturated by the mind-numbing Hasbara disciplines that you scarcely communicate reality...the sad part is that you are sufficiently stupid to assume that your spate of cheap deflections and evasions---'your tirades...Islamo blablabla---actually work.  Has no one explained to you that these tactics merely reduce you to pathetic? A brain is a terrible thing to waste...wink, wink!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've noticed that your stereotypical tactic is to slog through these saliva slinging, juvenile tirades when your attempt at argument is totally eviscerated. You could gain a bit more respect if you perhaps set yourself on fire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh that is odd because for the life of me I cannot isolate the part of the thread where 'my argument is totally eviscerated'...obviously yet another symptom of your chronic self-delusion...empty swag and convulsive puerile gibberish are indeed your signatures, as previously observed you seem to actually believe that you gain credibility rather than hilarity...it is a reliable axiom that any putative defender of Israel cannot reference the truth...I've yet to encounter one of you viral slugs who could even accidentally brush up against the truth...and the explanation is hardly shrouded in secrecy: the truth is your enemy, hence you are predisposed to devote your immoral energies to lies so absurd and pathetic that they might foment convulsive laughter from a fifth-grader...lies are all you low-brow bottom-feeders can post...keep spinning and I'll keep laughing~!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your tirades are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See definition below...you misuse the word Hollie, a clear indication of insufficient education or low-IQ---or both!!!
> 
> ti·rade
> ˈtīˌrād/
> _noun_
> 
> a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.
> "a tirade of abuse"
> synonyms: diatribe, harangue, rant, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, condemnation, censure, invective, criticism, tongue-lashing; More
Click to expand...

Perfectly describes your drooling _tirades_.


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## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism and child abuse.
> 
> It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.
> 
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> 
> 
> 
> Share |
> 
> *Palestinian children commit terror attacks
> to enhance their status in society*
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
> For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?
Click to expand...


Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.


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## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism and child abuse.
> 
> It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.
> 
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> 
> 
> 
> Share |
> 
> *Palestinian children commit terror attacks
> to enhance their status in society*
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
> For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.
Click to expand...




One-trick-pony


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## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism and child abuse.
> 
> It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.
> 
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> 
> 
> 
> Share |
> 
> *Palestinian children commit terror attacks
> to enhance their status in society*
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
> For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One-trick-pony
Click to expand...


Typical Louie'ism. 

Spam with pointless cut and paste.


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## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism and child abuse.
> 
> It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.
> 
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> 
> 
> 
> Share |
> 
> *Palestinian children commit terror attacks
> to enhance their status in society*
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
> For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One-trick-pony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Louie'ism.
> 
> Spam with pointless cut and paste.
Click to expand...




Typical Holly-ism: stupidity paired with simple-minded lies...sorry drool-gal---I am not "Louie" however I surmise that he must've been smart


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## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Ventura77 said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism and child abuse.
> 
> It began with the inventor of islam and It continues today.
> 
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian children commit terror attacks to enhance their status in society
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
> Nov. 9, 2017 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> 
> 
> 
> Share |
> 
> *Palestinian children commit terror attacks
> to enhance their status in society*
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
> For almost a decade, the Palestinian NGO Defence for Children International - Palestine (DCI-P) has unjustifiably been accusing Israel of breaching the rights of Palestinian minors who are arrested on suspicion of committing terror attacks. Most recently, DCI-P launched a campaign in the US and in Canada under the title "No Way to Treat a Child", whose goal is "to challenge and end Israel's prolonged military occupation of Palestinians by exposing widespread and systematic ill treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One-trick-pony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Louie'ism.
> 
> Spam with pointless cut and paste.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Holly-ism: stupidity paired with simple-minded lies...sorry drool-gal---I am not "Louie" however I surmise that he must've been smart
Click to expand...


Come on, Louie, cut and paste more cartoons. Its what you do.


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## Hollie

Oh, my. Those fashion statements in ski masks are blustering again.


WATCH: Palestinian terror group threatens IDF, promises war with Israel

WATCH: PALESTINIAN TERROR GROUP THREATENS IDF, PROMISES WAR WITH ISRAEL
> PLO to UN: 'Hamas and PFLP are not terrorist organizations'
> Palestinian terror group lashes out at 'Post' exposés, Israeli parties
YASSER OKBI/ MAARIV HASHAVUA,JPOST.COM STAFF against the Jewish state and in particular its army.


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## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..and let me pitch a guess: 'terror attack' is defined as 'rock throwing' or disobeying the IDF scum who casually inflict the real terror?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One-trick-pony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Louie'ism.
> 
> Spam with pointless cut and paste.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Holly-ism: stupidity paired with simple-minded lies...sorry drool-gal---I am not "Louie" however I surmise that he must've been smart
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on, Louie, cut and paste more cartoons. Its what you do.
Click to expand...




You must have quite a bit of empty time on your hands Hollie...you are either a friendless shut-in or a 24/7 Hasbara-troll---or both...each one simply pathetic


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## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> Ventura77 said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pitch another silly tirade instead. They're funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One-trick-pony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Louie'ism.
> 
> Spam with pointless cut and paste.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Holly-ism: stupidity paired with simple-minded lies...sorry drool-gal---I am not "Louie" however I surmise that he must've been smart
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on, Louie, cut and paste more cartoons. Its what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must have quite a bit of empty time on your hands Hollie...you are either a friendless shut-in or a 24/7 Hasbara-troll---or both...each one simply pathetic
Click to expand...


Such an angry Louie.


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## Ventura77

Hollie said:


> Oh, my. Those fashion statements in ski masks are blustering again.
> 
> 
> WATCH: Palestinian terror group threatens IDF, promises war with Israel
> 
> WATCH: PALESTINIAN TERROR GROUP THREATENS IDF, PROMISES WAR WITH ISRAEL
> > PLO to UN: 'Hamas and PFLP are not terrorist organizations'
> > Palestinian terror group lashes out at 'Post' exposés, Israeli parties
> YASSER OKBI/ MAARIV HASHAVUA,JPOST.COM STAFF against the Jewish state and in particular its army.





OMG!!!!!!   those poor defenseless IDF soldiers...how dare the Palis fight back, hasn't anyone explained that JEWS have an axiomatic right to steal land, property and murder unarmed women and children with virtual impunity?


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## Hollie

US expected to pass bill slashing aid to PA over support of terrorists

US EXPECTED TO PASS BILL SLASHING AID TO PA OVER SUPPORT OF TERRORISTS

A mark-up vote on the Taylor Force Act is expected to pass with broad bipartisan support, clearing the way for full vote on the House floor.



Long overdue.


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## Sixties Fan

[  When an old horse insists on another old horse ]

In Article On Occasion Of Balfour Declaration Centenary, Palestinian Authority President 'Abbas Says Any Final Resolution Of Palestinian-Israeli Conflict Must Include Implementation Of UN Resolution 194 'To Restore Palestine Refugees To Their Homes'


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## Hollie

Ventura77 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. Those fashion statements in ski masks are blustering again.
> 
> 
> WATCH: Palestinian terror group threatens IDF, promises war with Israel
> 
> WATCH: PALESTINIAN TERROR GROUP THREATENS IDF, PROMISES WAR WITH ISRAEL
> > PLO to UN: 'Hamas and PFLP are not terrorist organizations'
> > Palestinian terror group lashes out at 'Post' exposés, Israeli parties
> YASSER OKBI/ MAARIV HASHAVUA,JPOST.COM STAFF against the Jewish state and in particular its army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!!!!!   those poor defenseless IDF soldiers...how dare the Palis fight back, hasn't anyone explained that JEWS have an axiomatic right to steal land, property and murder unarmed women and children with virtual impunity?
Click to expand...


Angry Louie. Axiomatic piffle.


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## Hollie

Lets hope the Taylor Force Act helps to remedy this.

*WHY IS THE WEST FINANCING PALESTINIAN TERRORISM?
Why is the West financing Palestinian terrorism?

Imagine terrorists who have killed hundreds of people in Europe and the U.S. receiving generous rewards for their crimes.

And imagine further this blood money being indirectly funded by Western taxpayers.

As outrageous as it sounds, this is exactly what the Palestinian Authority (PA)—financially dependent on U.S. and European generosity—is doing.
*


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## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Palestinian Terrorist Flag Raised in London, Police are Helpless


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## Sixties Fan

Arafat: Israel was 'really stupid' to withdraw from Lebanon


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## Sixties Fan

Thousands celebrate Arafat's terror legacy across PA, Gaza


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## Hollie

It's long past time that the Infidel stopped greasing the rails for the Kuffar money train that the Islamic terrorist "Pal'istanians" have been climbing aboard. Belgian is making a show of symbolically stepping down from visibly supporting the Islamic terrorist quasi-state that bleeds them.

*

Belgian Jews laud government’s aid freeze to PA over school named for terrorist
*
Belgian Jews laud government’s aid freeze to PA over school named for terrorist

Jewish leader says decision to halt education funding because of Dalal Mughrabi School shows 'there is no more sweeping under the carpet'

JTA — Belgian Jewish groups welcomed the decision by their country’s foreign ministry to freeze funding for Palestinian schools following the renaming of a recipient institution for a terrorist who killed Jewish civilians.

Tuesday’s move, which the Forum of Jewish Organizations of Belgium’s Flemish Region said was “the right thing to do,” was announced in a government statement that was unusual for the seniority of the undersigned: federal vice prime ministers Didier Reynders and Alexander De Croo.


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## JoelT1

Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.

Why would “palestinians” who are really just Arabs identify with a Roman name for Jews and their land? And there’s no letter p in Arabic!


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## rylah

Palestinian Jews - the Danon family.

Yom Tov Danon
One of the greatest sages of Izmir. He immigrated to Jerusalem before the year 1814. Here he was elected head of the rabbinical court and priest in this post until 1821. In the same year, the "Chacham Bashir" died, and Yosef Raphael Hazan was chosen to sit on his throne. In the preface to his book "Kavod Yom Tov" it says that he excelled in "all the good qualities". He was a great preacher and his words sound like planted nails. His power in the Torah was great and he was well versed in the nature of Gittin and Kiddushin. He authored a book about the Rambam called "Kavod Yom Tov" (Salonika 1926). The rest of his comrades were burned by the great fire that broke out in Izmir in 1825. His immigration to Eretz Israel was to be burred in her, and for this he made a grave for himself and engraved this tombstone on him: "This is my resting place, until the Lord sees from heaven. This is the tombstone that I laid down for me in Jerusalem. Who will bear the name of Yom Tov Danon, a Dayan from the city of Izmir, and chose another in Jerusalem. " Only two years he sat on the throne of the rabbinate in Jerusalem. He died in the month of Tammuz 1823. Tradition says that there was a dispute between him and R. Eliezer Chazan, the son of Rabbi Yosef Hazan, on an unknown matter "and they said that after there was no one who could perish below, one".
*865 | Encyclopedia of the Founders and Builders of Israel

*His grave on the Mount of Olives (Jerusalem):
כרטיס קבר: יום טוב דנון YomTov Danon » הר הזיתים, ירושלים


Danon family today:


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## Sixties Fan

Adalah is not fighting “for minorities, for the voiceless, and for the powerless,” as the New Israel Fund claims. Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists are not a persecuted minority. They are not “voiceless” or “powerless.” They have a voice through their many supporters around the world, and they have the power of their missiles, guns, and knives.

And when a few Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists get trapped in a tunnel they were going to use to murder Israeli children, they know they can count on Adalah, and its American Jewish donors, to ride to their rescue.

(full article online)

American Jews Trying To Save Gaza Tunnel Terrorists | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Stephen M. Flatow | 21 Heshvan 5778 – November 9, 2017 | JewishPress.com


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## Sixties Fan

The Arab villagers live in Gush Etzion along the planned route of one of the new bypass roads, according to a report by _Ynet_. A village elder contacted the leaders of the Jewish protest to offer his support, saying new roads are just as important to the Arab residents as they are to the Jews.
-------
There are many citizens of the Palestinian Authority who work in Jerusalem, particularly in the hospitals and the hotel industry.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...g-govt-to-hurry-funding-for-roads/2017/11/09/


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## Sixties Fan

There were 16 stoning attacks recorded over a seven-hour period, many causing damage and all carried out with the intent to murder their victims.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...ism-again-rising-in-judea-samaria/2017/11/09/


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## Sixties Fan

Arab students at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem protested Israel’s presence in the Golan Heights on Wednesday in a demonstration that also saw protesters call for the expulsion of “Zionists” from the country.

“Zionists, out. My land [must be] Arab and free. There is no solution, no solution, but to get rid of the occupier,” students said, according to footageobtained by Channel 2.

(full article online)

At Hebrew University rally, Arab students call for ‘Zionists, out’


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## Sixties Fan

[ Article by Noor DahriNoor Dahri is a director of Pakistan Israel Alliance (PIA) and Editor in Chief of the Newspaper Pak Israel News (PIN). He is an independent researcher based in London, UK. He has studied Counter Terrorism from International Institute for Counter Terrorism ICT- Herzliya - Israel. He is a honorary member of the ZF-UK.  ]


Therefore, I am going to help you learn to go about defeating the Israelis (and Zionists) in any debate. I will tell you three important formulas not to bring into the discussion so that you will never be shamed in arguments with any Israelis or Zionists. You just need to grasp and be able to have full knowledge of how to skip these three formulas.

Formula Number 1- No Religious Grounds:

Start by reading your holy Quran, Chapter Number 17, Verse Number 104

“And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, “Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, we will bring you forth in [one] gathering.”

وَقُلۡنَا مِنۢ بَعۡدِهِۦ لِبَنِىٓ إِسۡرَٲٓءِيلَ ٱسۡكُنُواْ ٱلۡأَرۡضَ فَإِذَا جَآءَ وَعۡدُ ٱلۡأَخِرَةِ جِئۡنَا بِكُمۡ لَفِيفً۬ا

Next read Chapter Number 05, Verse Number 21.

“O my people (the Jews)! Enter the Holy Land, which God has assigned unto you”

يَـٰقَوۡمِ ٱدۡخُلُواْ ٱلۡأَرۡضَ ٱلۡمُقَدَّسَةَ ٱلَّتِى كَتَبَ ٱللَّهُ لَكُمۡ وَلَا تَرۡتَدُّواْ عَلَىٰٓ أَدۡبَارِكُمۡ فَتَنقَلِبُواْ خَـٰسِرِينَ
---------
Let’s do that:

My advice is either you claim that Palestinians were the only indigenous people of the holy land and stick with it (despite the factual evidence to the contrary), or do not bring the history of the Palestinian people to any debate; otherwise you would be defeated again very badly. If we bring the discussion from the First World War and the Second World War or about the creation of Israel in 1948 or even since the Six Days War 1967, we will be defeated based on the ground realities which I will mention at some point in my next article. The best way is to deny everything, all the evidence Israelis or their supporters bring into the discussion and stick to those claims, which insist Palestinians’ history is older than Israelis, Palestinians are the indigenous people of the Holy land, Israel is the occupied country of the Palestine and that Jewish people have no right to claim the Palestinian land. Ignore everything and create a fake claim to win the debate, if you feel that you are losing the discussion, just leave the discussion and disappear.

If you understood my formulas and advice then Let’s Defame the Jewish State of Israel.

(full article online)

Let’s Defame the Jewish State of Israel


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## Sixties Fan

Gaza suffers from severe water pollution, with more than 95 percent of its groundwater unclean, leading to increased risk of serious diseases.

The strip has been ruled by the Hamas terrorist organization since 2007. Hamas has diverted funds and aid meant for civilian infrastructure to its military wing, including the construction of terror tunnels into Israel. The Palestinian Authority has accused Hamas of preventing the construction of a desalination plant which would provide clean water for Gaza's residents.

(full article online)

First pineapple farm opens in Gaza


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## Sixties Fan

Super Rich Palestinians


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## rylah

Palestinian Jews: Rabbi Hanon Hasson









He was born in Hebron, 1767 (1867), to his father Rabbi Mordecai, an affluent merchant and one of the best of the city, and his mother Rivka to the house of Benvenisti. He studied Talmud Torah and a Yeshiva of the Sephardim and was 15 years old in his knowledge of the Talmud and his literature.

He married Klara, the daughter of Rav Rachamim Yosef Franco and his wife Mazal Tov, the daughter of Rav Yitzchak Israel. She was born in Jerusalem in 1880 and moved with her parents to Hebron when her father was appointed a father-of-din. She was known for generosity, kindness and love People).

He taught Talmud for several years in the Talmud Torah of the Sephardic community. In 1939 he went abroad on behalf of the community and its institutions. In the meantime, his father-in-law passed away and was replaced by Rabbi Chaim Chizkia Medini, who immigrated from Karasu-Bazar in Crimea, author of the books Sdei Chemed. And when Rav Hasson returned from his journey he was appointed a member of the Beit Din and was the right hand of the gaon, who gave him the proof and printing of the final parts of his book Sdei Chemed.

After the demise of  gaon Medini he was appointed chief rabbi of the Sephardic community. He worked very hard in favor of the Jewish community in Hebron and in the fortification of the community and its institutions. He took an interest in the history of the city of Hebron and the history of the Jewish settlement there, and collected ancient documents on this matter.

In his old age, his sons persuaded him to move to Jerusalem, but he refused, so much so that he would not reduce the settlement there. In the summer of 1929, his wife spent a few months with her sons in Jerusalem, and when she returned in the month of Tammuz she continued to beg him to move to Jerusalem, and he refused.

On the day of the massacre, on Saturday, 18 Av, 1929, he and his wife were murdered by the Hebron rioters, as well as his writings in Torah novellae and in the history of Hebron.






322 | Encyclopedia of the Founders and Builders of Israel


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## Sixties Fan

So a fourth question:

If panel member ‘A’, agreed with panel member ‘B’, who agreed with panel member ‘C’, and the role of the Chair was to ensure the panelists were the only ones in the room allowed to speak freely, then how on earth were ‘all sides represented’?

The entire free speech argument is bogus. The only speech being denied is a right of response. So much so, that towards the end, I felt physically unwell. The attacks were relentless. Bouattia for example, claimed that in 2009 or  2011, the Israelis ‘carpet bombed’ the people of Gaza. Israel was even referred to as a ‘despotic regime’.

What is occurring is insidious. The argument of free speech is being turned on its head, in a perverse manipulation of the truth. Why won’t these lying cowards put their arguments up for challenge? Why is that cowardice supported by a university?

(full article online)

The University of Cambridge - teaching ignorance and hate


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## Sixties Fan

Sarsour has also minimized problems faced by women living in Arab countries. At least twice, she has lauded Saudi Arabia as a model of women’s rights. In doing so, she ignored the fact that in Saudi Arabia, all adult women must have a male guardian, whose permission they need just in order to get married, get a passport or travel. She also ignored that at the time she made those statements, Saudi women were prohibited from driving, and that in Saudi Arabia, girls as young as eight years old can be forced to marry old men.

(full article online)

When It Comes to Linda Sarsour, Where’s the ‘Glamour’ in Bigotry?


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## Sixties Fan

[In June of 1941  Palestinian Arab  Al-Husseini started riots against Jews in Iraq ]

Jewish Persecution in Iraq


----------



## Art__Allm

Sixties Fan said:


> Oh, knowledgeable Master, do point us to the links which prove that ALL Jews in Europe had origins in Europe itself and did not come from Asia as far back as the destruction of the First Temple.



Who cares if some Ashkenazi have oriental or Asian roots, most of them have European roots, almost all "founding mothers" of Ashkenazi communities are of European origin. If Judaism is transmitted via the maternal line, then Ashkenazi are neither Jews nor Semites.




Sixties Fan said:


> Yeah, Ivrit is an invented language, just like Arabic, English, Farsi,
> Latin, Greek, Aramaic, etc.
> It was invented by the people who became known for it thousands of years ago.



No,
English, Farsi, Latin, Greek, Aramaic and ancient Hebrew were naturally born languages, they evolved due to the evolution of these languages, which was a natural process that involved millions of people who spoke these languages.

Ivrith is like Esperanto, in did not evolve naturally, it was created from a dead language, it is like a Frankenstein.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, knowledgeable Master, do point us to the links which prove that ALL Jews in Europe had origins in Europe itself and did not come from Asia as far back as the destruction of the First Temple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares if some Ashkenazi have oriental or Asian roots, most of them have European roots, almost all "founding mothers" of Ashkenazi communities are of European origin. If Judaism is transmitted via the maternal line, then Ashkenazi are neither Jews nor Semites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Ivrit is an invented language, just like Arabic, English, Farsi,
> Latin, Greek, Aramaic, etc.
> It was invented by the people who became known for it thousands of years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No,
> English, Farsi, Latin, Greek, Aramaic and ancient Hebrew were naturally born languages, they evolved due to the evolution of these languages, which was a natural process that involved millions of people who spoke these languages.
> 
> Ivrith is like Esperanto, in did not evolve naturally, it was created from a dead language, it is like a Frankenstein.
Click to expand...

What language does the word Ivrit come from?

What does it mean?


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, knowledgeable Master, do point us to the links which prove that ALL Jews in Europe had origins in Europe itself and did not come from Asia as far back as the destruction of the First Temple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares if some Ashkenazi have oriental or Asian roots, most of them have European roots, almost all "founding mothers" of Ashkenazi communities are of European origin. If Judaism is transmitted via the maternal line, then Ashkenazi are neither Jews nor Semites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Ivrit is an invented language, just like Arabic, English, Farsi,
> Latin, Greek, Aramaic, etc.
> It was invented by the people who became known for it thousands of years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No,
> English, Farsi, Latin, Greek, Aramaic and ancient Hebrew were naturally born languages, they evolved due to the evolution of these languages, which was a natural process that involved millions of people who spoke these languages.
> 
> Ivrith is like Esperanto, in did not evolve naturally, it was created from a dead language, it is like a Frankenstein.
Click to expand...


Majority of Ashkenazi Jews cluster with the Druze from Lebanon and Galilee. 
It's is my conclusion as well that diaspora communities used to revolve around a small number of converted women. It were usually men who reached further places.
However while culture is passed by the mother from childhood, it is the father who gives the familial and tribal identity to the Jewish child. 
The language wasn't dead at all. It was used in legal documents, schools, books, songs and letters between the communities. Even when writing in Yiddish or Arabic - Hebrew letters AND words were used.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]

There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)

Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.

However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.

So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.

Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.

I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)

When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.

(full article online)

Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And they are being given tenure at American Universities ]

A tenured Columbia University professor is facing criticism for claiming in a column published Tuesday by Al Jazeera that Zionism is anti-Semitic and that the Jewish people who opposed Zionism and Israel died in the Holocaust, a notion that critics deemed anti-Semitic.

Columbia Arab politics professor Joseph Massad wrote that the Nazis successfully "killed the majority of Jewish enemies of Zionism," or those Jews who might oppose Israel today.

"While the majority of Jews continued to resist the anti-Semitic basis of Zionism and its alliances with anti-Semites, the Nazi genocide not only killed 90 percent of European Jews, but in the process also killed the majority of Jewish enemies of Zionism who died precisely because they refused to heed the Zionist call of abandoning their countries and homes," Massad wrote, before discussing "the affinity between Nazis and Zionists."

Massad also condemned America and the West for touting "pro-Zionist Nazi policies."

One of Massad's colleagues at Columbia said his piece "reflects profound ignorance of Jewish history."

"The notion that the Protestant Reformation is the basis for Jews’ belief in the continuity of Jewish life from ancient times, or for their ties to the land of Israel, reflects profound ignorance of Jewish history," Professor Paul S. Appelbaum, the university's Dollard Professor of Psychiatry, Medicine, and Law, said in an email.

Appelbaum said that Massad skews history in order to slander Jews and Christians.

(full article online)

Columbia prof unleashes ‘anti-Jewish screed’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And it gets better....]


According to Massad, a Palestinian Christian and disciple of the late Columbia professor Edward Said, the case for gay rights in the Middle East is an elaborate scheme hatched by activists in the West. Massad posited this thesis in a 2002 article, "Re-Orienting Desire: The Gay International and the Arab World," for the academic journal Public Culture, and he has expanded it into a book, Desiring Arabs, published this year by the University of Chicago Press. In it, he writes that such activists constitute the "Gay International" whose "discourse ... produces homosexuals as well as gays and lesbians, where they do not exist." The "missionary tasks" of this worldwide conspiracy are part of a broader attempt to legitimize American and Israeli global conquest by undermining the very moral basis of Muslim societies, as the "Orientalist impulse ... continues to guide all branches of the human rights community." Massad's intellectual project is a not-so-tacit apology for the oppression of people who identify openly as homosexual. In so doing, he sides with Islamist regimes over Islamic liberals.

(full article online)

Queer Theory


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Question: How do such politically motivated Professors of History ever get a job at any American University, much less Tenure?  ]

Student comments about Joseph Massad - Campus Watch


----------



## Sixties Fan

Germany’s federal prosecution charged a Palestinian man on Friday with murder and six counts of attempted murder.

Ahmad A., 26, wanted “to kill as many German nationals of the Christian faith as possible,” the prosecutor’s office said, according to the indictment.

(full article online)

Germany charges Palestinian with murder of Christians over Temple Mount tensions


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Daily: We Will Not Sit Idly By In Face Of Iran's Interference In The Palestinian Arena


----------



## Sixties Fan

Becoming a terrorist is a very profitable enterprise.

It is hard to believe that things are actually like this in Israel.

But, it is true.

This excellent Stand With Us video breaks down all of the financial incentives that exist for Arabs in the Middle East who are looking for a way out of the financial strain that their leaders make sure to keep them under.

These neglected people are being encouraged to become martyrs – and yes – US taxpayers are a big part of this.

Pay for Slay: The Palestinian Leadership's Terrorist Policy


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  If Jews since 1948 had behaved as the Arabs do, possibly these Arabs would have found their way to Arabia, or chosen to live in peace with Jews.  Very possibly.  ]

A general increase in the number of rock attacks in Israel has been reported with the number reaching at least 25 such murder attempts per day. Rocks hurled at a moving vehicles are murderous weapons, especially on highways, as the deaths of little Adele Bitton, teenager Amitai Kapach and Asher Palmer and his one-year-old son Yonatan prove. All these, and others, were killed because their vehicles went out of control due to a murderous barrage of rocks or a large rock hurled at them while driving.

In an attack reported last week, Arabs threw stones at a bus near the town of Tekoa. There were no casualties but the vehicle was damaged.

Besides this, three other attempted murders took place within the space of an hour in Judea and Samaria, including two stone-throwing attacks near the Tapuach junction and another stone-throwing attack in Gush Etzion, near El Aroub.

Another rock attack: Car damaged in Gush Etzion


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]
> 
> There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)
> 
> Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.
> 
> However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.
> 
> So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.
> 
> Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.
> 
> I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)
> 
> When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]
> 
> There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)
> 
> Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.
> 
> However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.
> 
> So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.
> 
> Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.
> 
> I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)
> 
> When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.
Click to expand...

Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notably, the mere name Arafat gathers orders of magnitude more people to a rally than a year's worth of preparation for anti-Balfour rallies, of which the largest one I could find in the territories was no more than a hundred people.

Meanwhile, Fatah still says that Israel is "politically and criminally responsible" for Arafat's death.

(full article online)

Arafat rally draws thousands in Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians and where did they come from? Nobody knows!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Question: How do such politically motivated Professors of History ever get a job at any American University, much less Tenure?  ]
> 
> Student comments about Joseph Massad - Campus Watch


"Wow, tensions were flying high in this class between Zionist- sympathizers and Massad (and, to a lesser extent, between Zionist-sympathizers and Palestinian-sympathizers). Massad is clearly pro-Palestine in outlook, and while some students find this troubling, others find it refreshing. His descriptions of the suffering endured by Palestinians make great scholarship -- but he seems unable at times to see why the Jews, in their own words, would support and perpetrate such horrible policies. I agree with Massad`s stance, and I am glad to be able to take a class where the professor isn`t afraid to condemn a country for chronic flouting of UN resolutions and international law. At the same time, the lack of zionist voices in the (generally mixed-quality, sometimes brilliant) reading list and the strict guidelines on paper topics (they steer you towards making Massad`s own points) make this class not as thought-provoking as it should be.​
It would be redundant to link to the Zionist narrative. That has been all over the place and in your face for decades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]
> 
> There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)
> 
> Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.
> 
> However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.
> 
> So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.
> 
> Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.
> 
> I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)
> 
> When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
> Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.
Click to expand...

What did he say that was incorrect?

Cue song and dance.
3
2
1


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Question: How do such politically motivated Professors of History ever get a job at any American University, much less Tenure?  ]
> 
> Student comments about Joseph Massad - Campus Watch
> 
> 
> 
> "Wow, tensions were flying high in this class between Zionist- sympathizers and Massad (and, to a lesser extent, between Zionist-sympathizers and Palestinian-sympathizers). Massad is clearly pro-Palestine in outlook, and while some students find this troubling, others find it refreshing. His descriptions of the suffering endured by Palestinians make great scholarship -- but he seems unable at times to see why the Jews, in their own words, would support and perpetrate such horrible policies. I agree with Massad`s stance, and I am glad to be able to take a class where the professor isn`t afraid to condemn a country for chronic flouting of UN resolutions and international law. At the same time, the lack of zionist voices in the (generally mixed-quality, sometimes brilliant) reading list and the strict guidelines on paper topics (they steer you towards making Massad`s own points) make this class not as thought-provoking as it should be.​
> It would be redundant to link to the Zionist narrative. That has been all over the place and in your face for decades.
Click to expand...


In Arabs’ own Koran, Zionist Allah decreed Israel to Children of Israel. No mention of fake palestine and fake palestinians


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Question: How do such politically motivated Professors of History ever get a job at any American University, much less Tenure?  ]
> 
> Student comments about Joseph Massad - Campus Watch
> 
> 
> 
> "Wow, tensions were flying high in this class between Zionist- sympathizers and Massad (and, to a lesser extent, between Zionist-sympathizers and Palestinian-sympathizers). Massad is clearly pro-Palestine in outlook, and while some students find this troubling, others find it refreshing. His descriptions of the suffering endured by Palestinians make great scholarship -- but he seems unable at times to see why the Jews, in their own words, would support and perpetrate such horrible policies. I agree with Massad`s stance, and I am glad to be able to take a class where the professor isn`t afraid to condemn a country for chronic flouting of UN resolutions and international law. At the same time, the lack of zionist voices in the (generally mixed-quality, sometimes brilliant) reading list and the strict guidelines on paper topics (they steer you towards making Massad`s own points) make this class not as thought-provoking as it should be.​
> It would be redundant to link to the Zionist narrative. That has been all over the place and in your face for decades.
Click to expand...


In the Christian Bible, Zionist Jesus is called King of Israel and King of the Jews. No mention of fake palestine and fake palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]

Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.

"We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.

"It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."

"We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.

(full article online)

Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]
> 
> There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)
> 
> Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.
> 
> However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.
> 
> So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.
> 
> Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.
> 
> I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)
> 
> When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
> Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did he say that was incorrect?
> 
> Cue song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question.
You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?

Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.

Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.

What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]
> 
> There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)
> 
> Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.
> 
> However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.
> 
> So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.
> 
> Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.
> 
> I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)
> 
> When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
> Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did he say that was incorrect?
> 
> Cue song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me ask you a question.
> You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?
> 
> Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.
> 
> Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
> Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.
> 
> What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?
Click to expand...

I love my country. I am even a veteran.

Unfortunately our government sucks.

Nice deflection though.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ From Professor Joseph Massad, born in Jordan of Palestinian Nationality ]
> 
> There is a lot of nonsense here, like calling Judaism and Christianity "Palestinian religions." That is an obvious attempt to claim some sort of special status for Palestinians today who have no relationship whatsoever with the biblical Land of Israel that is indeed the origin of both religions (and of course Islam is also modeled in no small part on Judaism.)
> 
> Mossad's flat assertion that Jews in Europe were converts is not footnoted so I cannot be sure which nonsense he is pushing. Outside the Khazar theory, there was a genetic study in 2013 that claimed that the matrilineal line of most Ashkenazic Jews came from women who converted to Judaism in Europe.
> 
> However, even that study was controversial and a more recent study shows that the women actually were from the Near East. And genetic studies of the patrilineal line have been almost unanimous in showing that Ashkenazic Jewish men also have origins in the Near East. Beyond that, a genetic linkage study of all Jews, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi, found them to be related and concluded "the most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant." Wikipedia has a fine roundup of the studies.
> 
> So Massad is a liar. His calling his lies an "established historical fact" is a bullying tactic to make anyone who disagrees pause - thinking that certainly a professor at Columbia wouldn't lie so blatantly. This is only one part of his writing where he is "thinking past the sale" - he wants to make it look like his assumptions for his hateful theories are "established facts" so that while you are thinking about his theories, he has already made you subconsciously believe that his assumptions are accurate.
> 
> Massad's lies are not innocent. He chooses his lies to be consistent with his anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian political beliefs (hence characterizing Judaism as a "Palestinian" religion.) And he couches them as "facts" in such a way that it takes time and effort to dissect his words to show how hollow his actual argument is.
> 
> I don't even have the time or the energy to refute Massad's other claims. (He circles back to his claim that the original Zionists were antisemites, for example.)
> 
> When the foundation of his argument is a lie, and one that is so easily disproven yet he insists is true without providing an iota of evidence, then he has already proven once again that he isn't interested in the academic pursuit of knowledge but in anti-Israel propaganda.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Academic fraud Joseph Massad claims Ashkenazic Jews are really European ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
> Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did he say that was incorrect?
> 
> Cue song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me ask you a question.
> You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?
> 
> Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.
> 
> Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
> Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.
> 
> What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love my country. I am even a veteran.
> 
> Unfortunately our government sucks.
> 
> Nice deflection though.
Click to expand...

Many governments suck.  But it is not what I asked.

Why do you tend to support people who live in the USA, but are against the USA and are doing everything to undermine the country, Mr. Veteran?

Are you going to tell me that the Professor is a proud American, only doing what a proud American would do?
Is he being against this government or every American government?

Do you understand the difference?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes about Joseph Massad because he does not shovel Israeli shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
> Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did he say that was incorrect?
> 
> Cue song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me ask you a question.
> You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?
> 
> Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.
> 
> Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
> Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.
> 
> What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love my country. I am even a veteran.
> 
> Unfortunately our government sucks.
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many governments suck.  But it is not what I asked.
> 
> Why do you tend to support people who live in the USA, but are against the USA and are doing everything to undermine the country, Mr. Veteran?
> 
> Are you going to tell me that the Professor is a proud American, only doing what a proud American would do?
> Is he being against this government or every American government?
> 
> Do you understand the difference?
Click to expand...

There is a big difference between a country, i.e. the people, and the government. In many places the people and the government are not on the same page.

Was there anything he said that was against our country?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, as it is noted in the articles I posted, he shovel's Arab, Islamic shit.
> Which by the way, the Arab shoveling, has been going on for 1400 years.
> 
> 
> 
> What did he say that was incorrect?
> 
> Cue song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me ask you a question.
> You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?
> 
> Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.
> 
> Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
> Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.
> 
> What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love my country. I am even a veteran.
> 
> Unfortunately our government sucks.
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many governments suck.  But it is not what I asked.
> 
> Why do you tend to support people who live in the USA, but are against the USA and are doing everything to undermine the country, Mr. Veteran?
> 
> Are you going to tell me that the Professor is a proud American, only doing what a proud American would do?
> Is he being against this government or every American government?
> 
> Do you understand the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference between a country, i.e. the people, and the government. In many places the people and the government are not on the same page.
> 
> Was there anything he said that was against our country?
Click to expand...

According to the articles there was.

You may have passed over it.  Reread the articles, and possibly the eyewitness of American Students to his classes.
What is he saying, as a Palestinian, about America and American Politics?  What is he after?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did he say that was incorrect?
> 
> Cue song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> 
> 
> Let me ask you a question.
> You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?
> 
> Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.
> 
> Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
> Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.
> 
> What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love my country. I am even a veteran.
> 
> Unfortunately our government sucks.
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many governments suck.  But it is not what I asked.
> 
> Why do you tend to support people who live in the USA, but are against the USA and are doing everything to undermine the country, Mr. Veteran?
> 
> Are you going to tell me that the Professor is a proud American, only doing what a proud American would do?
> Is he being against this government or every American government?
> 
> Do you understand the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference between a country, i.e. the people, and the government. In many places the people and the government are not on the same page.
> 
> Was there anything he said that was against our country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the articles there was.
> 
> You may have passed over it.  Reread the articles, and possibly the eyewitness of American Students to his classes.
> What is he saying, as a Palestinian, about America and American Politics?  What is he after?
Click to expand...

I don't know. You need to be more specific. I don't read through Israeli colored glasses so I may have missed it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me ask you a question.
> You say that you live in the Midwest.  Would that be Midwest of the USA or any other part of the world?
> 
> Are you pro America or, like the Professor at Columbia who was born in Jordan, are very anti the country you live and work in and would like to see it taken over by Islam or the Confederates, or the Communists, or the Nazis, etc, take your pick.
> 
> Are you a loyal resident of the United States of America? Yes ?
> Then, please, be aware of those who are not pro America and are working within the country to take over it.
> 
> What to you think?  Good idea, or it does not matter?
> 
> 
> 
> I love my country. I am even a veteran.
> 
> Unfortunately our government sucks.
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many governments suck.  But it is not what I asked.
> 
> Why do you tend to support people who live in the USA, but are against the USA and are doing everything to undermine the country, Mr. Veteran?
> 
> Are you going to tell me that the Professor is a proud American, only doing what a proud American would do?
> Is he being against this government or every American government?
> 
> Do you understand the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference between a country, i.e. the people, and the government. In many places the people and the government are not on the same page.
> 
> Was there anything he said that was against our country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the articles there was.
> 
> You may have passed over it.  Reread the articles, and possibly the eyewitness of American Students to his classes.
> What is he saying, as a Palestinian, about America and American Politics?  What is he after?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. You need to be more specific. I don't read through Israeli colored glasses so I may have missed it.
Click to expand...

I will not do your homework for you.  You are way too lazy.
And that is how the Arabs are slowly, but surely taking over American Academia, and others, in order to change history, politics and everything else they can change to help them.

But, hey, you are a Veteran - of what remains questionable.  Not of fighting for your country because it IS your country.  You are more than ready to give it away.

But the same goes in every country fighting the Jihadists.  Free Speech and the damage of not taking care of the baby before it grows up thinking who knows what.  

Professor, go ahead and continue your great job at Columbia as a Palestinian intent on making your people look the victims of what Arabs themselves started.   You have plenty of American supporters, like this person, to whom the hatred of Israel and Jews outshines protecting their own country from yourself or any other American and Non American whose intent is very clear, only for those who wish to see.

Am Israel Chai.

The People of Israel LIVE .
And will continue to LIVE.

Lechaim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love my country. I am even a veteran.
> 
> Unfortunately our government sucks.
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many governments suck.  But it is not what I asked.
> 
> Why do you tend to support people who live in the USA, but are against the USA and are doing everything to undermine the country, Mr. Veteran?
> 
> Are you going to tell me that the Professor is a proud American, only doing what a proud American would do?
> Is he being against this government or every American government?
> 
> Do you understand the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference between a country, i.e. the people, and the government. In many places the people and the government are not on the same page.
> 
> Was there anything he said that was against our country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the articles there was.
> 
> You may have passed over it.  Reread the articles, and possibly the eyewitness of American Students to his classes.
> What is he saying, as a Palestinian, about America and American Politics?  What is he after?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. You need to be more specific. I don't read through Israeli colored glasses so I may have missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will not do your homework for you.  You are way too lazy.
> And that is how the Arabs are slowly, but surely taking over American Academia, and others, in order to change history, politics and everything else they can change to help them.
> 
> But, hey, you are a Veteran - of what remains questionable.  Not of fighting for your country because it IS your country.  You are more than ready to give it away.
> 
> But the same goes in every country fighting the Jihadists.  Free Speech and the damage of not taking care of the baby before it grows up thinking who knows what.
> 
> Professor, go ahead and continue your great job at Columbia as a Palestinian intent on making your people look the victims of what Arabs themselves started.   You have plenty of American supporters, like this person, to whom the hatred of Israel and Jews outshines protecting their own country from yourself or any other American and Non American whose intent is very clear, only for those who wish to see.
> 
> Am Israel Chai.
> 
> The People of Israel LIVE .
> And will continue to LIVE.
> 
> Lechaim.
Click to expand...

Just as I said.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The series of maps pictured here and above are a propaganda tool of Hamas that have been spread across American campuses by SJP, MSA and their leftwing allies, often with funds and support provided by college administrations. These maps are genocidal lies, featured on every Israeli Apartheid Wall erected with the student funds provided to these groups. They purport to show a Palestinian state in 1947, which is steadily infiltrated and occupied by Jews who transform it into today’s Israel. Contrary to what is shown on these maps, there never was a state called Palestine, and the state of Israel was created by the UN, not out of land that belonged to the Arabs, but out of land that belonged to the Turks for 400 years until they joined the aggressors in World War I. (The same Turkish land was used to create the Arab states of Iraq, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.) These fraudulent maps were designed by Hamas to justify the extermination of the Jews, as called for in the Hamas Charter, and the destruction of the Jewish state.

*The Top Ten Colleges Most Friendly to Terrorists *
_(Note: the ranking is in alphabetical order)_


Brandeis University
Columbia University
Harvard University
Rutgers University-New Brunswick
San Francisco State University
University of California, Irvine
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, San Diego
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of New Mexico
(full article online)

Ten Top American Universities Most Friendly to Terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The series of maps pictured here and above are a propaganda tool of Hamas that have been spread across American campuses by SJP, MSA and their leftwing allies, often with funds and support provided by college administrations. These maps are genocidal lies, featured on every Israeli Apartheid Wall erected with the student funds provided to these groups. They purport to show a Palestinian state in 1947, which is steadily infiltrated and occupied by Jews who transform it into today’s Israel. Contrary to what is shown on these maps, there never was a state called Palestine, and the state of Israel was created by the UN, not out of land that belonged to the Arabs, but out of land that belonged to the Turks for 400 years until they joined the aggressors in World War I. (The same Turkish land was used to create the Arab states of Iraq, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.) These fraudulent maps were designed by Hamas to justify the extermination of the Jews, as called for in the Hamas Charter, and the destruction of the Jewish state.
> 
> *The Top Ten Colleges Most Friendly to Terrorists *
> _(Note: the ranking is in alphabetical order)_
> 
> 
> Brandeis University
> Columbia University
> Harvard University
> Rutgers University-New Brunswick
> San Francisco State University
> University of California, Irvine
> University of California, Los Angeles
> University of California, San Diego
> University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
> University of New Mexico
> (full article online)
> 
> Ten Top American Universities Most Friendly to Terrorists





Sixties Fan said:


> These maps are genocidal lies, featured on every Israeli Apartheid Wall erected with the student funds provided to these groups. They purport to show a Palestinian state in 1947, which is steadily infiltrated and occupied by Jews who transform it into today’s Israel. Contrary to what is shown on these maps, there never was a state called Palestine, and the state of Israel was created by the UN,


Wrong and wrong. Where do you get your shit?

Links?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror suspect found innocent by Israeli military court? I thought that never happens! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now a new study (also here, if doesn’t open) by the _Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education_ (IMPACT-se) documents how kids in Palestinian Authority-controlled areas are being further indoctrinated to hate through their schoolbooks.

Like earlier textbooks that were used to teach “over one million impressionable children”, the IMPACT-se report finds that the new textbooks—recently released as part of the PA’s first full reform of the educational curriculum since 2000—are still promoting the demonization of Israel.

But the IMPACT-se assessment also finds that the radicalization is pervasive across this new curriculum—to an even greater extent than before.

(full article online)

New Palestinian Authority textbooks teach “martyrdom as a life goal”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Zionist Organization of America chief Morton Klein ridiculed claims that Israel has ‘occupied’ Judea and Samaria, telling supporters at the ZOA annual gala Sunday night in New York that no Palestinian Arab nation ever existed.

“This was never their sovereign land,” said Klein. “And if it was their sovereign land, how could it be that they would have named it 'Palestine' - a Roman name, not an Arab name? We [the ZOA] are the only significant organization making it clear to Congress and the media and in public speeches that there is no 'occupation'. This is holy Jewish land, it has never been sovereign Arab land."

In addition, Klein noted, Israel has withdrawn from nearly all Arab population centers in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, granting autonomy to the overwhelming majority, 98%, of Arabs in those areas.

(full article online)

'This was never Palestinian land'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'





Sixties Fan said:


> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip


Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
Click to expand...

You know very well that Israel "bombs the crap out of Hamas and all other militias in Gaza who fire rockets into Israel and hide in civilian areas, and amongst civilians.

There is one way of curing that .

Hamas and all other groups in Gaza stay totally away from civilians and civilian areas when it fires rockets into Israel or it starts a war, as in 2014 or any of the others.

Some people never learn


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Stone a Day | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Asher Schwartz | 23 Heshvan 5778 – November 12, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Rajoub made these comments following the FIFA Council's announcement on Oct. 27, 2017 that it had decided to reject the Palestinian Football Association's (PFA) request to sanction Israel. Since FIFA's Israel-Palestine Monitoring Committee was created to examine only the claims of the PFA against Israel, it would appear that while rejecting the Palestinian claim, FIFA's Council attributed considerable weight to the complaint submitted by Palestinian Media Watch against the PFA and its president Rajoub for glorifying and inciting terror, for racism and Antisemitism. FIFA therefore decided to "refrain from imposing any sanctions or other measures on either the Israel FA or the Palestinian FA, as well as from requesting any other FIFA body to do so. The matter is declared closed..." [FIFA Council statement, Oct. 27, 2017] _

_Rajoub also holds the following positions: Head of the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs, Chairman of the Palestine Olympic Committee, and Chairman of the Palestinian Scout Association (PSA)._

(full article online)

Fatah official: Israel has a "fascist governmental plan, typical of Nazism"  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
Click to expand...


Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know very well that Israel "bombs the crap out of Hamas and all other militias in Gaza who fire rockets into Israel and hide in civilian areas, and amongst civilians.
> 
> There is one way of curing that .
> 
> Hamas and all other groups in Gaza stay totally away from civilians and civilian areas when it fires rockets into Israel or it starts a war, as in 2014 or any of the others.
> 
> Some people never learn
Click to expand...

All Israeli talking points aside, Israel will bomb the crap out of civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace
Click to expand...

Israel's version of peace - all of Palestine without the Palestinians.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know very well that Israel "bombs the crap out of Hamas and all other militias in Gaza who fire rockets into Israel and hide in civilian areas, and amongst civilians.
> 
> There is one way of curing that .
> 
> Hamas and all other groups in Gaza stay totally away from civilians and civilian areas when it fires rockets into Israel or it starts a war, as in 2014 or any of the others.
> 
> Some people never learn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All Israeli talking points aside, Israel will bomb the crap out of civilians.
Click to expand...


Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of peace - all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


History Lesson: Palestine originated as a fake Roman name for Jews’ land


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know very well that Israel "bombs the crap out of Hamas and all other militias in Gaza who fire rockets into Israel and hide in civilian areas, and amongst civilians.
> 
> There is one way of curing that .
> 
> Hamas and all other groups in Gaza stay totally away from civilians and civilian areas when it fires rockets into Israel or it starts a war, as in 2014 or any of the others.
> 
> Some people never learn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All Israeli talking points aside, Israel will bomb the crap out of civilians.
Click to expand...

Only if Hamas insists in putting those, sometimes more than willing Martyrdom civilians, where they should not be.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of peace - all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


No fake palestine or fake palestinians in Arabs’ Koran. Allah decreed Israel to Children of Israel Surat Al-'Isra' [17:104] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Why do Palestinian Leaders hide in Damascus and other places? ]
> 
> Major General Yoav Mordechai, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), on Saturday night warned the terrorist organizations in Gaza that Israel will respond to any act of retaliation for the destruction of the terror tunnel that was exposed in Israeli territory two weeks ago.
> 
> "We are aware of the plot being waged by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad against Israel. They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip and at the expense of internal Palestinian reconciliation and the region as a whole,” Mordechai said in an Arabic-language video he posted to YouTube.
> 
> "It should be clear," he added, "that for every Islamic Jihad response, wherever it is, Israel will respond with force and determination, not only to the Jihad but also to Hamas."
> 
> "We advise the Islamic Jihad leadership in Damascus to exercise caution and control matters,” Mordechai said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terror group: Israeli threats 'a declaration of war'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are playing with fire on the backs of the residents of the Gaza Strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel will respond by bombing the crap out of civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs: Israel embraces a culture of peace Member of Saudi delegation: Israeli society wants peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of peace - all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

It was never a Jewish/Israeli version.  It belongs to your fogged mind.
And those of the Arabs, like the Hashemites, who ethnically cleansed all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem in 1948, and then returned in 1967 wanting more land from the Mandate for Palestine.

78% of ALL of the Mandate for Palestine to the Arabs, Hashemites, was never enough.

Defog


----------



## JoelT1

Palestinians? Encyclopedia of Islam says palestine originated as a Roman name for Jews’ land


----------



## Sixties Fan

n 1974, 2nd Lt. Hiroo Onoda of the Imperial Japanese Army was still fighting for his emperor, hiding in a Philippine jungle. He had rejected many attempts to inform him of Japan's surrender 29 years earlier. During those many years, he senselessly murdered about one Filipino and injured three others each year. Only a concerted effort by his former commander finally convinced Onoda that the emperor had accepted defeat in 1945 and therefore he too must lay down arms.

The Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza are Onoda writ large. They formally acknowledged defeat by Israel 24 years ago, when Yasser Arafat stood on the White House lawn and recognized "the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security." Trouble was, Arafat himself did not sincerely offer this act of surrender and most Palestinians rejected it.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/why-palestinian-delusions-persist/?redirected=201069


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## Sixties Fan

Western “progressives” support the Palestinian Authority and support the Palestinan cause. What do they imagine Mahmoud al Habbash means by the world “purified”? How do they think he intends to put that word into practice in Israel? I’ll give them a clue. It will involve, at the very least, a war of annihilation, racist ethnic cleansing and mass murder.

This is what establishing a state of Palestine means to the Palestinian Authority. This is the agenda that western “progressives” not only support but have made into their cause of causes: an agenda which involves the purge of every single Jew from Israel, their own national home.

(full article online)

The signature cause of western progressives: purging every Jew from Israel | MelaniePhillips.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”

(full article online)

Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs historically called Syria by the Arabic word “Sham” “Land to the Left” Palestine is an English word derived from a Latin word palaestina, so, Arabs calling themselves “palestinians” makes no sense.

Also, no letter p in Arabic


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who said that Palestinians have no respect for Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Arab countries? They do.

Palestinians have respect for the money of their Arab brethren. The respect they lack is for the heads of the Arab states, and the regimes and royal families there.

It is important to take this into consideration in light of the growing talk about Saudi Arabia’s effort to help the Trump Administration market a comprehensive peace plan for the Middle East, the details of which remain intriguingly mysterious.

(full article online)

The U.S. Middle East Peace Plan? | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Bassam Tawil | 25 Heshvan 5778 – November 14, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
Click to expand...


The term “semite” has no legitimacy in anthropology. “Semitic” applies to languages only

Thus, the video is bullshit, like “palestinians”


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
Click to expand...


Not asking the dummies in the video too much to read a history book and learn that palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and their land of Israel.

There’s no letter p in Arabic, so Arabs can’t write or even say “palestine” in their native language, because it’s a foreign term


----------



## Sixties Fan

And what has Hamas gained for all that? The answer, ironically, is that the very things it lost are its most significant gain.

When it seized Gaza from Fatah in 2007, Hamas declared that the takeover validated its vision of an Islamic Palestine, that its rise against all odds, against the express wishes of the PA, Israel and much of the international community, proved that these opponents, for all their immense power, could be pushed back, and that pious Muslims could find themselves on the ascendant in their wake.

Hamas’s troubles may have begun when it made the mistake of believing its own propaganda. In the name of its pious devotion to the cause, it drove Gaza from one ideological clash to another, dragging its long-suffering population not only into repeated rounds of war with Israel, but even, inexplicably to outsiders, into the bloodstained mess of the civil war between the Egyptian army and the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas’s one-time patrons and ideological forebears.

Facing an Israeli blockade from the start of Hamas’s rule in 2007, as of 2014 Gazans found themselves under a ruthlessly tightening Egyptian one as well — the Egyptian army’s response to Hamas’s meddling. And beginning in 2017, Abbas’s PA began imposing its own financial stranglehold, denying the Hamas-led government in Gaza funds from the PA for the provision of basic services such as electricity.

Hamas could blame and bluster, but it was becoming increasingly difficult for it to argue it was leading Gaza to a better place.

(full article online)

The day Palestine gave up


----------



## JoelT1

Palestine was an old Roman name imposed on Jews, referring to Philistines who were Greek not Arab—So, who are the palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

As @UNRWA teaches hate, EU gives more money to UNRWA ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not asking the dummies in the video too much to read a history book and learn that palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and their land of Israel.
> 
> There’s no letter p in Arabic, so Arabs can’t write or even say “palestine” in their native language, because it’s a foreign term
Click to expand...




I sit back and laugh convulsively every time I sample a retarded post like this, NEWSFLASH "DUMMY" the Arabic pronunciation of Palestine is ( Falastine )...beyond that you repulsive second-graders cannot erase or alter the history of Arabic Palestine...ironically your central argument is Zionist architects Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...Begin...Jabotinsky...Rabin...Ben Gurion...etc. The one certainty in the rich history of Arabic Palestine is the noted absence of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism---Turks...Mongols...Ukranians...Poles...Russians!!!  Go back to your soiled Zionist coloring book Einstein...LMAO


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> And what has Hamas gained for all that? The answer, ironically, is that the very things it lost are its most significant gain.
> 
> When it seized Gaza from Fatah in 2007, Hamas declared that the takeover validated its vision of an Islamic Palestine, that its rise against all odds, against the express wishes of the PA, Israel and much of the international community, proved that these opponents, for all their immense power, could be pushed back, and that pious Muslims could find themselves on the ascendant in their wake.
> 
> Hamas’s troubles may have begun when it made the mistake of believing its own propaganda. In the name of its pious devotion to the cause, it drove Gaza from one ideological clash to another, dragging its long-suffering population not only into repeated rounds of war with Israel, but even, inexplicably to outsiders, into the bloodstained mess of the civil war between the Egyptian army and the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas’s one-time patrons and ideological forebears.
> 
> Facing an Israeli blockade from the start of Hamas’s rule in 2007, as of 2014 Gazans found themselves under a ruthlessly tightening Egyptian one as well — the Egyptian army’s response to Hamas’s meddling. And beginning in 2017, Abbas’s PA began imposing its own financial stranglehold, denying the Hamas-led government in Gaza funds from the PA for the provision of basic services such as electricity.
> 
> Hamas could blame and bluster, but it was becoming increasingly difficult for it to argue it was leading Gaza to a better place.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The day Palestine gave up





...and yet you omit the vital fact that the rise and dominance of Islamic Hamas was attributable to the Israeli leadership, who financed and politically sponsored the radical Islamic group against the increasingly moderate and secular PLO...CURIOUS HUH?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not asking the dummies in the video too much to read a history book and learn that palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and their land of Israel.
> 
> There’s no letter p in Arabic, so Arabs can’t write or even say “palestine” in their native language, because it’s a foreign term
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sit back and laugh convulsively every time I sample a retarded post like this, NEWSFLASH "DUMMY" the Arabic pronunciation of Palestine is ( Falastine )...beyond that you repulsive second-graders cannot erase or alter the history of Arabic Palestine...ironically your central argument is Zionist architects Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...Begin...Jabotinsky...Rabin...Ben Gurion...etc. The one certainty in the rich history of Arabic Palestine is the noted absence of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism---Turks...Mongols...Ukranians...Poles...Russians!!!  Go back to your soiled Zionist coloring book Einstein...LMAO
Click to expand...

Is the word Palestine an Arabic word?

Did the Arabs name the region Palestine 4000 years ago?

Did the Romans rename Judea after the Arabs as Syria Palestinea in 135 CE, or FOR the Arabs?

Find one historical document from the ancient Egyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans which refers to the region as Arabic Palestine.


----------



## Ventura77

Sixties Fan said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before I let you find out how you did, I should perhaps note what I just found out: my articles on Massad got me an honorary mention on _Stormfront_! As I noted in my post back then, _Stormfront_ members shared and debated Massad’s notorious _Al Jazeera_ column “The last of the Semites,” which Jeffrey Goldberg immediately denounced as “one of the most anti-Jewish screeds in recent memory.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Columbia professor Joseph Massad or Stormfront? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not asking the dummies in the video too much to read a history book and learn that palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and their land of Israel.
> 
> There’s no letter p in Arabic, so Arabs can’t write or even say “palestine” in their native language, because it’s a foreign term
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sit back and laugh convulsively every time I sample a retarded post like this, NEWSFLASH "DUMMY" the Arabic pronunciation of Palestine is ( Falastine )...beyond that you repulsive second-graders cannot erase or alter the history of Arabic Palestine...ironically your central argument is Zionist architects Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...Begin...Jabotinsky...Rabin...Ben Gurion...etc. The one certainty in the rich history of Arabic Palestine is the noted absence of Eastern European Khazar-converts to Judaism---Turks...Mongols...Ukranians...Poles...Russians!!!  Go back to your soiled Zionist coloring book Einstein...LMAO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the word Palestine an Arabic word?
> 
> Did the Arabs name the region Palestine 4000 years ago?
> 
> Did the Romans rename Judea after the Arabs as Syria Palestinea in 135 CE, or FOR the Arabs?
> 
> Find one historical document from the ancient Egyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans which refers to the region as Arabic Palestine.
Click to expand...



Spare all of us your regurgitated second-grader historical revision and focus your starved brain on the 13 consecutive centuries of Arabic residency that Herzl and Wetizman conceded in their sinister plan to expel the native population...your argument is with Zionist politics itself...LOL


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch reported recently that Fatah's Bethlehem Branch glorified the PA terror campaign - the second Intifada - and posted "a souvenir picture" from it, showing rows of masked men apparently belonging to Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades carrying rifles. 

Over 1,000 Israelis, the vast majority of whom were civilians, were murdered during the PA terror campaign, mostly in suicide bombings by Hamas and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is considered a terror organization by the US and the EU.

(full article online)

Fatah's narrative: Israel is a "monster" killing Palestinian "rebels" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## JoelT1

Children of Israel appear in Arabs’ own Koran But, no mention of palestine or palestinians—Fakey fakey


----------



## Ventura77

JoelT1 said:


> Children of Israel appear in Arabs’ own Koran But, no mention of palestine or palestinians—Fakey fakey





Oh right imbecile...because everyone knows there is no such thing as Palestine right moron?  If only you could have explained this to Ben Gurion and Herzl and Weitzman and Jabotinsky and Begin and Dayan and Rabin and Shamir it would've spared these poor men so much trouble...One has to wonder how long these 3rd grade drop-outs will try to erase Palestinian history...considering there was never a 'Nation of Israel'


----------



## Shusha

Ventura77 said:


> ...will try to erase Palestinian history...considering there was never a 'Nation of Israel'



Oh. The irony. 

Replacement history:  I'm going to deny your history existed while simultaneously usurping it as my own.  Replacement theology for the 21 century. 

Just as ridiculous and just as harmful.


----------



## Ventura77

Shusha said:


> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...will try to erase Palestinian history...considering there was never a 'Nation of Israel'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. The irony.
> 
> Replacement history:  I'm going to deny your history existed while simultaneously usurping it as my own.  Replacement theology for the 21 century.
> 
> Just as ridiculous and just as harmful.
Click to expand...




Oh but your comments are quite worthless Princess to the extent that you prove nothing beyond your pugnacious idiocy...denying Palestine history is the position of a fool to the extent that Zionism itself is an inexorable component of the existence of Palestine...by contrast there is no record of a 'nation' called Israel...


----------



## JoelT1

Jesus is called King of the Jews and King of Israel in the Bible No mention of fake palestine and fake palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israel Prison Service provides expensive psychiatric treatment to terrorists behind bars in Israel, including medicine which ordinary Israeli citizens find it difficult to obtain, according to a Tuesday report on Israel Radio’s Reshet Bet.

Psychiatrist Dr. Nimrod Keisar said he was proud of the treatment he provides to terrorists, as member of a team of senior psychiatrists hired by the IPS to treat imprisoned terrorists.

(full article online)

Israel Offers ‘Superior’ Psychiatric Treatment to Terrorists | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 26 Heshvan 5778 – November 15, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## JoelT1

Jesus’ Jewish synagogue in Israel. Where were the “palestinians”? Israeli Archeologists Discover "Jesus' Synagogue"


----------



## Sixties Fan

In fact, aerial photos taken as recently as 2004 show that there was no village – Beduin, Palestinian, or any other kind – in this area; aerial photos going back to 1999 debunk Jabareen’s claims altogether. At most, in certain seasons there were tents in the area, constructed for temporary shelter by the nomadic shepherds who passed through with their flocks. This hardly constitutes ownership, settlement, or historic claims to land.

(full article online)

Ein al Hilweh and Umm Jamal: Facts on the ground


----------



## Sixties Fan

It takes particular gall for European Union representatives to express "humanitarian" outrage at Israel for razing illegal structures in the West Bank -- while the EU is in league with Palestinian criminals who have been brazenly stealing Arab-owned land.


There has been massive "behind-the-scenes" Palestinian construction, the goal of which is "to create irreversible facts on the ground," and completely encircle Jerusalem. Once the buildings – which "do not meet even the most minimum standards required by engineers, architects and housing planners" – are erected, the apartments are sold cheaply ($25,000-$50,000), to guarantee they are purchased and populated quickly.


If there is any debt to pay here, it is not Israel's to Europe, but the other way around. Belgium and the rest of the EU should be embracing its natural ally, the democratic Jewish state, against all forces that support and perpetrate violence, while rejecting peace.
(full article online)

Europe's Collusion in Palestinian Illegal Land Grab


----------



## JoelT1

Any actual history of “palestinians”? Waiting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ventura77 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ventura77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...will try to erase Palestinian history...considering there was never a 'Nation of Israel'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. The irony.
> 
> Replacement history:  I'm going to deny your history existed while simultaneously usurping it as my own.  Replacement theology for the 21 century.
> 
> Just as ridiculous and just as harmful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but your comments are quite worthless Princess to the extent that you prove nothing beyond your pugnacious idiocy...denying Palestine history is the position of a fool to the extent that Zionism itself is an inexorable component of the existence of Palestine...by contrast there is no record of a 'nation' called Israel...
Click to expand...

It is not "Palestine" history one is denying, as in a region named Palestine, and the Jewish homeland of Judea renamed Syria Palestinea by the Romans.

It is the existence of a country, a Nation of Arabs who called themselves Palestinians and lived in ancient Canaan from time immemorial.

When you discover any vestige of these Arabs, do let us know.


----------



## JoelT1

Still waiting for history of “palestinians” Anything?


----------



## Sixties Fan

J-Street's new lying campaign against Israel proves how anti-Israel they are ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

If any history of the “palestinians” is produced, the Earth will spin off its axis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Love of the Land: A Mideast peace plan takes shape—and it’s not good - by Stephen M. Flatow


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Today's consequence of Islamic teachings about Jews ]

The terrorist ran over a 70-year-old man at the Efrat south junction, lightly injuring him.

The terrorist then continued to the Gush Etzion junction, where he ran over a 35-year-old man. The 35-year-old suffered a head injury and was evacuated to the Hadassah Ein Kerem Hospital in Jerusalem, MDA reported. He is currently in serious but stable condition.

The terrorist then attempted to stab a soldier and was shot and neutralized by the security forces at the scene.

“The soldiers responded by firing towards the attacker, resulting in his injury,” an IDF spokesperson said Friday morning.

Authorities say the terrorist is a 17-year-old Palestinian Authority resident. The wounded terrorist was treated on the scene by IDF medics before being evacuated to Ein Kerem Hospital.

(full article online)

2 injured in Gush Etzion terror attack


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians and where did they come from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

'The terrorist smiled at me - then hit me'


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs themselves laugh: When were there any palestinians?!


----------



## Sixties Fan

A recent interview with DCI-P's Accountability Program Director Ayed Abu Qteish on official PA TV, shows that the claims made by his own organization are false. Abu Qteish explained that Palestinian minors do in fact commit terror attacks, and they do it, not necessarily because they want to attack Israelis, but in order to enhance or maintain their status in Palestinian society.
_Ayed Abu Qteish: "There are children who, when they were in prison, told the lawyer: 'I want to be imprisoned.' The first time [the child] was imprisoned, he didn't confess, and they released him because there was no evidence to convict him in the Israeli military court. The second time, there was no evidence either. The third time, he wanted to be imprisoned so that his image won't be hurt in the eyes of his friends, even though he is actually innocent... In several cases [Palestinian children] carried out stabbing operations because of the way the public looks at them. They realized 'the best way to clear myself of this image [of helping Israel] is to participate in resistance operations.'"_ _[Official PA TV, Personal Encounter, Oct. 11, 2017]_ PMW correctly points out that this interview shows that, contrary to DCI-P's claims, Israel does not unjustly convict kids.

But I think the most important part of this is the sheer hypocrisy of DCI-P. They claim to "defend" Palestinian children's rights, but they have nothing to say about a society where the kids are brought up to hate. To lionize stabbers and suicide bombers. To aspire to martyrdom. To gain social status by becoming terrorists and criminals.

(full article online)

"Defending" Palestinian children by turning them into martyrdom-seekers ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Archbishop Abdallah Julio Brunella of the Melkite Catholic Church in Jerusalem was interviewed by Al Quds. And true to form of all Christian leaders who count Palestinian Arabs as their subjects, he is unrelentingly anti-Israel.

We've seen this phenomenon before with the Palestinian Catholic leaders of various stripes.

(full article online)

There are no dhimmis like Palestinian Catholic dhimmis ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Weapons of the resistance" are things like Qassam rockets, suicide bomb belts, bus bombs, and anti-tank weapons aimed at schoolbuses.

And this is the "peaceful, moderate" PA that is saying this.

(full article online)

PA and Hamas agree to maintain "armed resistance" (i.e., terror) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

“Palestine” and “palestinians” do not appear in the ancient Jewish, Christian and Islamic sources.

Israel appears in all three sources.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Threatens to Close Radio Station over Critical Female Journalist


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Ga...-PA-control-for-first-time-in-a-decade-514546


----------



## Sixties Fan

Book Culture Promoting Book Glorifying Palestinian Violence & Terrorism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Excerpts from an article yesterday on NRG on Dr. Ruchama Marton, the acting President of Physicians for Human Rights reveals the type of radical left organizations supported by the New Israel Fund. While Physicians for Human Rights claims to work towards  "a more fair and inclusive society in which the right to health is applied equally for all," this telling interview provides the reality that the organization stands with Israel’s enemies.

According to NGO Monitor, The New Israel Fund (NIF) gave $1,470,400 to Physicians for Human Rights since 2008.

As the article quotes this organization's head as saying:

“I view BDS as a movement that will help me end the occupation”

The radical left, she said, must “launch a “revolt” against the Israeli government by joining the BDS movement, participating in boycotts of public figures and institutions and causing the Jewish state to “to end the occupation, the apartheid and the privileged regime.” 

(full article online)

New Israel Fund grantee: 'BDS will help me end the occupation'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Study: Only 14% of Israeli Arabs See Themselves as ‘Palestinians’ | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | JNi.Media | 2 Kislev 5778 – November 19, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

A poem in the Palestinian youth magazine _Zayzafuna_ teaches children that throwing rocks at Jews is something mandated by Muhammad, Islam's prophet. The funders of the magazine include the Palestinian Authority.

The following lines were part of the poem printed in the magazine's October issue together with the image above of a kid throwing rocks:

"O children of my country, sing to the occupied homeland so it will be liberated...
*Sing by the order of Prophet [Muhammad] *
*that we carry a rock*
*That we will throw at the people of the Gharqad [tree]"*
[_Zayzafuna_, October 2017]

Muhammad ordered kids to throw rocks at Jews,  according to PA-funded PLO magazine for children  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## JoelT1

As the Dean of Middle East historians, Professor Bernard Lewis, writes, palestine originated as a foreign name imposed on Jews’ land by the Roman Empire about 2000 years ago, reflecting the Jewish heritage of the land

“Palestinians” do not exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Didn't it used to mean something to be a martyr? Kill a few Jews, or something?

Now, you can be a martyr from a tunnel collapse, a traffic accident and a heart attack from eating too many Hamasburgers.

Do you think Allah is concerned about martyr inflation? 

(full article online)

Fat Hamas terrorist drops dead - but is still a "martyr" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad and the PFLP explicitly denounced the Arab League as part of this "coalition." When this alliance was founded in 1993 in Damascus, it included 10 terror groups including Hamas, the DFLP, PFLP-GC, as-Saiqa, Fatah al-Intifada, the Palestinian Liberation Front (PLF, Abu Nidal Ashqar faction), the Palestinian Popular Struggle Front (PPSF, Khalid ‘Abd al-Majid faction) and the Palestinian Revolutionary Communist Party (PRCP). It is unclear who them members are today, and indeed it looks like the organization exists only on paper.

As of this writing, I have not seen official Hamas or Fatah reaction to the news. Their media have largely ignored the news because they know it puts them between a rock and a hard place. They know that whoever's side they choose means losing financial support from the other.

(full article online)

Palestinian terror groups choose Iran over fellow Sunnis ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

All people born in British Mandatory Palestine between 1923-1948 (today's Israel) had "Palestine" stamped on their passports at the time. But when they were called Palestinians, the Arabs were offended. They complained: "We are not Palestinians, we are Arabs. The Palestinians are the Jews".


After invading Arab armies were routed and the Arabs who had fled the war wanted to return, they were considered a fifth column and not invited back. The Arabs who had loyally remained in Israel during the war, however, and their descendants, are still there and make up one fifth of the population. They are known as Israeli Arabs; they have the same rights as Christians and Jews, except they are not required to serve in the army unless they wish to.


"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality, today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese." – PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen, interview in the Dutch newspaper _Trouw_, March 1977.
(full article online)

When Was the "Palestinian People" Created? Google Has the Answer.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In reality, there was never an independent Palestinian Arab state. Prior to the creation of the modern-day State of Israel, Palestine was the geographic name given to the area by the Romans after they destroyed Judea, became part of the British empire after WWI, and prior to that, was part of the Ottoman empire. The only time "Palestine" was independent was when it was ruled by Jews during the First and Second Temple periods. During the First Temple Period, it was called "Israel" in the north and "Judea" in the rest of the country..

*The concept of an Arab "Palestine" was born after the Six Day War, *when Jordan lost the Judea and Samaria region to Israel after attacking the Jewish State. It then relinquished control of Judea and Samaria, and the Jordanian citizens living in those areas refused to accept Israeli authority.

In the words of one man, "One day we were Jordanian citizens, and they promised us the war would be over and we would win. The next day, the war was over and we had lost. They took the star out of our flag and told us we're not Jordanians anymore, we're Palestinians."

Earlier this year, a book entitled "A History of the Palestinian People: From Ancient Times to the Modern Era" proved to contain nothing but blank pages, since, in the words of Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely (Likud), "The Palestinians don't have kings and they don't have heritage sites...[they] are appropriating Jewish heritage sites and displacing them. "

(full article online)

'P' is for Palestine, 'I' is for intifada


----------



## JoelT1

Arab-American journalist Joseph Farah: Palestine originated as a Roman name for Jews’ land, and palestinians are a hoax

Myths of the Middle East


----------



## Sixties Fan

Forty years ago, I worked in Washington as the Director of Research at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. My work focused on arguing against the Carter Administration’s push for an international peace conference in Geneva that would include the Soviet Union and radical Arab states and opposing American arms sales to Egypt.  At the same time, I was intrigued by a smattering of articles by Egyptian writers who hinted at prospects of co-existence with Israel.

In November 1977, I visited Israel for meetings and to attend a Tel Aviv conference of Israeli and Palestinian “peace activists.” Suddenly, like a lightning bolt, we heard Sadat might be coming to Israel.  Some Palestinians were dazed. “If it’s true,” one activist pledged, “I will kill the traitor with my own hands.” At the time, I relayed a more moderate message from the activist.

I went up to Jerusalem for Sadat’s electrifying visit, and I filed this dispatch, “Cautious Optimism in Jerusalem” for the Washington newsletter, Near East Report.

(full article online)

Sadat and Me in Jerusalem 40 Years Ago


----------



## Sixties Fan

"One worshipper told AFP it was the first time in 18 years that Jews were allowed to pray at the site, deep in a Palestinian-controlled area.

A military spokeswoman said the army and police forces accompanying the worshippers were attacked by Palestinians hurling "rocks and firebombs", with the forces responding with riot dispersal means to "prevent further escalation".18 years? And when the Jews finally go - Jews who are hardly Zionist - they get attacked with a barrage of rocks and Molotov cocktails."
---------

Could anyone trust Palestinian security to protect Jews wanting to worship in their holy places? Ever?

This is what "access to holy places" is like under Arab rule.
 According to tradition, the graves are located inside the mosque, but the Jewish worshippers did not enter the holy site, rather held an hour of pre-dawn prayers on the road outside before leaving, the photographer said.

Naturally, if there is a Jewish holy site, a mosque must be built on top of it. So Jews can't enter.

(full article online)

To Palestinians "freedom of worship" means "freedom to firebomb Jews" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mea culpa, mea culpa is all I can say: I’m afraid I was the first one to highlight this tweet of yours, along with a whole lot of similar ones…
But in any case, there can be little doubt that also Richard Spencer would just LOVE your “Pro Defamation League” quip – can you imagine that the evil ADL has accused him of trying “to mainstream racism and anti-Semitism”???

You see, the ADL isn’t just defaming Palestinians – they’re also defaming the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer, and of course, worst of all, they’re defaming you, dear Linda Sarsour!!! But isn’t it a consolation that you are in such great company???

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour’s white knights: Max Blumenthal, David Duke & Richard Spencer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Mea culpa, mea culpa is all I can say: I’m afraid I was the first one to highlight this tweet of yours, along with a whole lot of similar ones…
> But in any case, there can be little doubt that also Richard Spencer would just LOVE your “Pro Defamation League” quip – can you imagine that the evil ADL has accused him of trying “to mainstream racism and anti-Semitism”???
> 
> You see, the ADL isn’t just defaming Palestinians – they’re also defaming the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer, and of course, worst of all, they’re defaming you, dear Linda Sarsour!!! But isn’t it a consolation that you are in such great company???
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s white knights: Max Blumenthal, David Duke & Richard Spencer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Linda Sarsour must be doing something right. She has the criminal class on her case.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mea culpa, mea culpa is all I can say: I’m afraid I was the first one to highlight this tweet of yours, along with a whole lot of similar ones…
> But in any case, there can be little doubt that also Richard Spencer would just LOVE your “Pro Defamation League” quip – can you imagine that the evil ADL has accused him of trying “to mainstream racism and anti-Semitism”???
> 
> You see, the ADL isn’t just defaming Palestinians – they’re also defaming the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer, and of course, worst of all, they’re defaming you, dear Linda Sarsour!!! But isn’t it a consolation that you are in such great company???
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s white knights: Max Blumenthal, David Duke & Richard Spencer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour must be doing something right. She has the criminal class on her case.
Click to expand...


It really is remarkable how you define social misfits and Islamic terrorists as your heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mea culpa, mea culpa is all I can say: I’m afraid I was the first one to highlight this tweet of yours, along with a whole lot of similar ones…
> But in any case, there can be little doubt that also Richard Spencer would just LOVE your “Pro Defamation League” quip – can you imagine that the evil ADL has accused him of trying “to mainstream racism and anti-Semitism”???
> 
> You see, the ADL isn’t just defaming Palestinians – they’re also defaming the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer, and of course, worst of all, they’re defaming you, dear Linda Sarsour!!! But isn’t it a consolation that you are in such great company???
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s white knights: Max Blumenthal, David Duke & Richard Spencer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour must be doing something right. She has the criminal class on her case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It really is remarkable how you define social misfits and Islamic terrorists as your heroes.
Click to expand...

Ooooo, terrorists.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mea culpa, mea culpa is all I can say: I’m afraid I was the first one to highlight this tweet of yours, along with a whole lot of similar ones…
> But in any case, there can be little doubt that also Richard Spencer would just LOVE your “Pro Defamation League” quip – can you imagine that the evil ADL has accused him of trying “to mainstream racism and anti-Semitism”???
> 
> You see, the ADL isn’t just defaming Palestinians – they’re also defaming the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer, and of course, worst of all, they’re defaming you, dear Linda Sarsour!!! But isn’t it a consolation that you are in such great company???
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s white knights: Max Blumenthal, David Duke & Richard Spencer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour must be doing something right. She has the criminal class on her case.
Click to expand...


Linda Sarsour cannot write or even say her bogus “palestinian” identity in her native Arabic: No letter p. LOL


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mea culpa, mea culpa is all I can say: I’m afraid I was the first one to highlight this tweet of yours, along with a whole lot of similar ones…
> But in any case, there can be little doubt that also Richard Spencer would just LOVE your “Pro Defamation League” quip – can you imagine that the evil ADL has accused him of trying “to mainstream racism and anti-Semitism”???
> 
> You see, the ADL isn’t just defaming Palestinians – they’re also defaming the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer, and of course, worst of all, they’re defaming you, dear Linda Sarsour!!! But isn’t it a consolation that you are in such great company???
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s white knights: Max Blumenthal, David Duke & Richard Spencer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour must be doing something right. She has the criminal class on her case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It really is remarkable how you define social misfits and Islamic terrorists as your heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooo, terrorists.
Click to expand...


Your usual retreat to cartoons. 

Of course, you and your Islamic terrorist hero Linda share the same grinding pathology of wannabe’ism. For all the Pom Pom flailing you both engage in for your Islamic paradises, you both have made the conscious choice to safely ensconce yourselves in the Great Satan™️.

Ooooo, (Wannabe) terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the United Nations and Human Rights Watch regard Gaza as still occupied, Hamas' Mahmoud Zahar disagrees, stating in 2012: "Against whom could we demonstrate in the Gaza Strip? When Gaza was occupied, that model was applicable." 

In addition, a number of legal scholars disagree with the NGO position that Gaza is still occupied.

Indeed, after similarly stating that Gaza is occupied, _The Los Angeles Times _last year commendably published the following correction, the paper's second correction on this topic:

(full article online)

CAMERA Snapshots: NBC's Anachronism: Israel's 'Ongoing Occupation' of Gaza


----------



## JoelT1

Arab-American journalist Joseph Farah: Palestinians Do Not Exist Palestinian people do not exist


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians freeze all US contacts over threat to shutter PLO office in DC


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO’s campaign to get recognized as a state breached both of its agreements with Israel and the terms under which the US recognized it and permitted it to operate missions on US soil.

(full article online)

OUR WORLD: Holding the PLO accountable


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians have made up their mind: The Trump peace plan is bad for us and we will not accept it. The plan is bad because it does not force Israel to give the Palestinians everything.


If and when the Trump administration makes public its peace plan, the Palestinians will be the first to reject it, simply because it does not meet all their demands.


Trump will soon learn that for Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinians, 99% is just not enough.
(full article online)

Palestinians: If You Do Not Give Us Everything, We Cannot Trust You


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Government Facebook Page

(full article online)

PA Government, PA TV, and Fatah all present a world without Israel - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Sovereignty is responsibility for the people of Israel - and the Arabs. Most of the Arabs, when I talk to them, say that they want Israeli sovereignty. It sounds strange, but if you take a poll of Arabs in Judea and Samaria and Jerusalem, they jump over the wall to be on the Israeli side - the want Israeli sovereignty. And they are quite clever, they understand why. 

“We must say to the whole world: Sovereignty is responsibility for the people of this area, the future of this area.”

Arnon emphasized that the “Arabs don’t live in a free environment that allows them to speak out. But we have to know that this is the truth of this region.”

(full article online)

'Judea and Samaria Arabs want Israeli sovereignty'


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs laugh: When did palestinians ever exist?


----------



## Sixties Fan

They'll try anything: Indoctrinating US children against Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rutgers President Defends ‘Academic Freedom’ of Three Professors Blasted for Comments on Israel, Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Escorted from a crime scene in Jerusalem*
Israeli border policemen escort a boy away from a blocked alley after a stabbing attack inside the old city of Jerusalem according to Israeli police, April 1, 2017. (Photo: Ammar Awad/Reuters)

(Here, the caption clarifies the boy was not involved in the incident)

In other words, not only is this _not_ Israeli police detaining a palestinian boy, but it is them leading a boy (of unknown nationality) away from potential danger – the potential danger being a _palestinian Arab_ terrorist.

I’ll keep on saying the same thing: when the truth is not on your side, you have to lie. And boy do they lie.

(full article online)

Latest Blood Libel: The Case Of The Israeli Border Police & The Boy


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".

There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.

Why?

Well, Israel isn't listed:







Not nice. 

And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.

The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.

In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?

(full article online)

My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?


Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...


Arabs’ Koran says Israel belongs to Children of Israel. Surat Al-'Isra' [17:104] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

No mention of fake palestine and palestinians They never existed


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...


Jesus is ‘King of Israel” and “King of the Jews” in the Christian Gospels.

No mention of fake palestine and palestinians They never existed


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...


Encyclopedia of Islam: Palestine originated as a foreign Roman name imposed on indigenous Jews’ land


----------



## Sixties Fan

A is for Arab, that's what we were called
Before we made up the Palestinian myth to the world.

B is for Bomb, to blow up some Jews
That's how we manage to stay in the news.

C is for Car-rammings, a more recent mission
A great way to kill without using ammunition.

D is for Dhimmi, both Christians and Jews
Second class citizens in Islamic rules

E is for Everything, from the river to the sea
Until we gain it all we'll pretend we're not free

(full article online)

The real Palestinian alphabet book ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...


Sour grapes from an Islamist terrorist hugger.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abba Eban's address to the UN on UNSC 242, November 22, 1967 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from an Islamist terrorist hugger.
Click to expand...

Doesn't bother me any. They can make fools of themselves all they want.


----------



## JoelT1

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways to counter her arguments besides discounting her use of "colonial".
> 
> There is the easy way which is to point to the website of Jadaliyya where Ms. Erekat serves as co-editor. I signed up to receive its newsletter but I had to note I reside in "palestine" (yes, with a small P) which is not a country nor a state but a region.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, Israel isn't listed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not nice.
> 
> And she complains about Israel, which is a real state?  I hope I'm updated.
> 
> The second way, as she lectures in law, is to be a bit more serious.
> 
> In rejecting UNGA 181, the Arabs rejected the establishment of an Arab state in Palestine.  They also declared war against the nascent state of Israel and hostilities began on November 30.  In doing so, the violated UN resolutions.  What did they expect would result from all this?  That they would win even if they lost?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Right Word: Professor Erekat, Where'd "Israel" Go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from another Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sour grapes from an Islamist terrorist hugger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't bother me any. They can make fools of themselves all they want.
Click to expand...


Palestine: Fake Roman name for Jews’ land. “Palestinians” do not exist


----------



## Sixties Fan

After hijacker Leila Khaled spoke there, European Parliament bans terrorists  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Proud Palestinian parents about their "Martyred" kids:  

 "The blood of the Martyrs has watered the ground and made gardens bloom"

 "The blood of the Martyrs is a beacon that lights the path to liberation and freedom"

 Palestinian university honors terrorist "Martyrs" with memorial

(full article online)

Proud Palestinian parents of "Martyrs": "The blood... made gardens bloom" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Linda Sarsour is only the 2nd Most Inappropriate speaker at New School antisemitism event


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two Stanford administrators present -- Nanci Howe, associate dean and director of student affairs, and Snehal Naik, assistant dean and associate director of student affairs -- not only nodded approvingly at the walk-out, but actively aided it, first by denying entry to many students who actually wanted to attend the event, and then by not allowing them to enter after the walkout, despite the fact that the auditorium was largely empty. They also forbade the hosts from live-streaming the talk on the Internet.


The reason for having to smear Robert Spencer was clear. Portraying him as someone who has led to the killing of Muslims was the way to try to have him banned from the campus, without abandoning the principle of free speech. Yet no student or faculty member produced a shred of evidence linking Spencer to violence against Muslims at Stanford or anywhere else. All they were able to produce as "proof" of Spencer's incitement was the same libelous blurb on the Southern Poverty Law Center website.


What De Leon, Najaer, Beckman and Fine failed to mention was that a mere few months earlier, at the end of May, the Stanford student senate voted to fund an on-campus speech by the son of Palestinian terrorist Marwan Barghouti, serving five life sentences in an Israeli jail for orchestrating three deadly attacks.
(full article online)

Stanford University's Duplicitous Morality Police


----------



## JoelT1

Since “palestinians” are Arabs, how come there is no history of “palestinians” in Arabic?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Settler-Colonialism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian factions leave Cairo with little reconciliation progress


----------



## Sixties Fan

Captured Hamas Terrorist Reveals Extensive Terror Tunnel Information | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press News Briefs | 6 Kislev 5778 – November 23, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## JoelT1

Middle East is a region of ancient civilizations, but no record of “palestinians” In fact, “palestinians” are not even mentioned once in historical records or literature.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas – Palestinian Authority Announce Elections by the End of 2018 | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press News Briefs | 6 Kislev 5778 – November 23, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since Arabic has no P-sound, Arabic morphs the P-sound either into an F or into a B. Thus the Hebrew “tapuach” (apple) becomes the Arabic “tufacha”, and the Hebrew “parash” (horseman) becomes the Arabic “farres”. Arabic for “trousers” is “bantalon” from the French “pantalon”, Arabic for “post” (mail) is “bosta”, and Arabic for “tomato” is “bandora” from the Italian “pomodoro”. 

Arabic almost invariably morphs the “P”-sound in place-names into a “B”-sound. Hence the ancient Greek Tripolis (the League of Three Cities), which became the Latin Tripolitania, came into European languages as Tripoli (in Libya and Lebanon), and into Arabic as Tarabulus.

Similarly the Arabic name for Portugal is Bortugal, for Poland Bolanda (in some dialects Bolonya, indiscernible from Bologna), for Cyprus Kubressa, for Nepal Nibal, and for Paraguay Baraghwai.

When the Romans invaded and conquered Israel, they renamed the ancient Hebrew city of Shechem “New City” in Latin, or Nea*p*olis. This European colonialist name morphed into the Arabic Na*b*lus (that  P sound turning into a B again) which is the name the Arab colonialist invaders used from the 7th century onwards.
---------
Not content with destroying their cities, exiling a large part of the population, and ploughing their fields with salt to render them incapable of growing food and thereby starving them, he took an additional measure: he changed the very name of the country from Ivdæa (Judæa)to Syria-Palæstina, after the Philistines, the deadly enemies of the Jews from more than 1,000 years earlier.

The Philistines hadn’t existed since the days of King Hezekiah. But the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the Jews’ country for them, in a deliberate act of final humiliation to the Jews.

And this brings us to the question: What does the name “Philistine” mean?

– “Philistine” is the Anglicised form of the Hebrew name “P’lishti”, from the Hebrew “polesh”, “invader”. The P’lishtim (Philistines) were a sea-faring nation, invaders who came from the Aegean Islands (which is why they dwelt mainly along the Israeli coastline).

This is the true origin of the name “Palestine”. The name means nothing in Arabic, and indeed cannot possibly exist in Arabic. This alleged “Palestinian” nation is a nation which cannot even pronounce its own name.

(full article online)

'P' is not for 'Palestine,'  Ms. Golbard-Bashi


----------



## Sixties Fan

On the annual day celebrating the Arab headdress, the _keffiyeh_, the director of the Qalqilya district Directorate of Education - which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education - told Palestinian teenage girls that the blood of "Martyrs" is "the purest." His statement was broadcast on the school radio:

"Fahmawi reviewed the symbolism of the Palestinian _keffiyeh_... and added that* the Palestinian keffiyeh has been colored with the purest blood, the blood of the Martyrs (Shahids) of Palestine* during their resistance to the occupation, and* the keffiyeh has become the shroud of the Palestinian fighter who has sacrificed his soul for the homeland.*" 
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 17, 2017]

This glorification of Martyrdom-death to Palestinian youth is in line with general PA education as Palestinian Media Watch has detailed in its report _PA Education - A Recipe for Hate and Terror_. 

Two days ago, PMW reported on similar praise for "Martyrs' blood" expressed by parents of dead terrorists at another PA school.

(full article online)

PA educator praises “blood of Martyrs” in broadcast on school radio - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF forces, the Shin Bet internal security agency, and Border Police units arrested five terrorists who threw improvised explosive devices towards the tunnel road leading to Jerusalem from the village of Beit Jala in Judea, south of Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Watch: Israeli Forces arrest 'Tunnel Road' terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian factions leave Cairo with little reconciliation progress


Same sticking point they have had since 2006.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian factions leave Cairo with little reconciliation progress


Hamas has controlled Gaza since seizing the coastal enclave from Fatah in 2007 in a bloody coup,​
Are those liars still pushing that bullshit?


----------



## Art__Allm

rylah said:


> Majority of Ashkenazi Jews cluster with the Druze from Lebanon and Galilee.



No, they cluster with the population of North Caucasus / South Russia.

And even West- and Est Ashkenazim have different genes.


_*“All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.
Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking | Genome Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic*_

---
_* Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis de-
picting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with
Southern European, Middle Eastern, and Eastern European
ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and
written traditions. We conclude that the genome of
European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including
Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews,
and Judeans and that their population structure was formed
in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots
stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.

Eran Elhaik homepage at The University of Sheffield*_


----------



## JoelT1

Art__Allm said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Majority of Ashkenazi Jews cluster with the Druze from Lebanon and Galilee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they cluster with the population of North Caucasus / South Russia.
> 
> And even West- and Est Ashkenazim have different genes.
> 
> 
> _*“All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.
> Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking | Genome Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic*_
> 
> ---
> _* Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis de-
> picting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with
> Southern European, Middle Eastern, and Eastern European
> ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and
> written traditions. We conclude that the genome of
> European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including
> Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews,
> and Judeans and that their population structure was formed
> in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots
> stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.
> 
> Eran Elhaik homepage at The University of Sheffield*_
Click to expand...


Um, Khazar nonsense from a crackpot was discredited last century


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Majority of Ashkenazi Jews cluster with the Druze from Lebanon and Galilee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they cluster with the population of North Caucasus / South Russia.
> 
> And even West- and Est Ashkenazim have different genes.
> 
> 
> _*“All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.
> Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking | Genome Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic*_
> 
> ---
> _* Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis de-
> picting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with
> Southern European, Middle Eastern, and Eastern European
> ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and
> written traditions. We conclude that the genome of
> European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including
> Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews,
> and Judeans and that their population structure was formed
> in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots
> stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.
> 
> Eran Elhaik homepage at The University of Sheffield*_
Click to expand...

[How low will some people stoop in their hatred of Jews? ]


Figure 6 reports the mean genomic sharing between Ashkenazi Jews and the 11 population groups, and Supplemental Table 2 gives p-values for tests of the null hypotheses of equal mean IBD sharing with Ashkenazi Jews for pairs of population groups. The greatest level of sharing was observed with Sephardi Jews, considerably greater than with other populations. Substantial sharing with Eastern Europeans was also observed, though at a much lower level. Sharing with most other populations was lower still, and with Caucasus populations, the level of sharing was similar to that observed for the Middle East. In accordance with the results from other analyses, the IBD sharing of Caucasus populations with Ashkenazi Jews was relatively low. Since this is a scientific paper, they can't say that Elhaik was a hack, but it is clear that his methods - using data from these very researchers - prove how low people will stoop to buttress their biases.

Of course, the media will never give this study (written last year) the same coverage that Elhaik's lies received.

"Khazar" study thoroughly debunked ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

-------------
Elhaik used some of the same statistical tests as Behar and others, but he chose different comparisons. Elhaik compared “genetic signatures” found in Jewish populations with those of modern-day Armenians and Georgians, which he uses as a stand-in for the long-extinct Khazarians because they live in the same area as the medieval state.

“It’s an unrealistic premise,” said University of Arizona geneticist Michael Hammer, one of Behar’s co-authors, of Elhaik’s paper. Hammer notes that Armenians have Middle Eastern roots, which, he says, is why they appeared to be genetically related to Ashkenazi Jews in Elhaik’s study.

Hammer, who also co-wrote the first paper that showed modern-day Kohanim are descended from a single male ancestor, calls Elhaik and other Khazarian Hypothesis proponents “outlier folks… who have a minority view that’s not supported scientifically. I think the arguments they make are pretty weak and stretching what we know.”

Feldman, director of Stanford’s Morrison Institute for Population and Resource Studies, echoes Hammer. “If you take all of the careful genetic population analysis that has been done over the last 15 years… there’s no doubt about the common Middle Eastern origin,” he said. He added that Elhaik’s paper “is sort of a one-off.”

Elhaik’s statistical analysis would not pass muster with most contemporary scholars, Feldman said: “He appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.”

Read more: ‘Jews a Race’ Genetic Theory Comes Under Fierce Attack by DNA Expert



[Poor Elhaik, poor Art......such delusions, such replacement mentality ]


----------



## rylah

Art__Allm said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Majority of Ashkenazi Jews cluster with the Druze from Lebanon and Galilee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they cluster with the population of North Caucasus / South Russia.
> 
> And even West- and Est Ashkenazim have different genes.
> 
> 
> _*“All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.
> Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking | Genome Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic*_
> 
> ---
> _* Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis de-
> picting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with
> Southern European, Middle Eastern, and Eastern European
> ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and
> written traditions. We conclude that the genome of
> European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including
> Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews,
> and Judeans and that their population structure was formed
> in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots
> stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.
> 
> Eran Elhaik homepage at The University of Sheffield*_
Click to expand...


The same Khazars with roots to Canaan and banks of Jordan?
Only if You think that Levant is Arabia, and that all people in the ME are supposed to be Bedouins.

But then again it explains why Arabs in Palestine ceded the rule over the land to an Arabian Sheikh from Mecca.


----------



## JoelT1

rylah said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Majority of Ashkenazi Jews cluster with the Druze from Lebanon and Galilee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they cluster with the population of North Caucasus / South Russia.
> 
> And even West- and Est Ashkenazim have different genes.
> 
> 
> _*“All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.
> Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking | Genome Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic*_
> 
> ---
> _* Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis de-
> picting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with
> Southern European, Middle Eastern, and Eastern European
> ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and
> written traditions. We conclude that the genome of
> European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including
> Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews,
> and Judeans and that their population structure was formed
> in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots
> stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.
> 
> Eran Elhaik homepage at The University of Sheffield*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same Khazars with roots to Canaan and banks of Jordan?
> Only if You think that Levant is Arabia, and that all people in the ME are supposed to be Bedouins.
> 
> But then again it explains why Arabs in Palestine ceded the rule over the land to an Arabian Sheikh from Mecca.
Click to expand...


Khazar foolishness was discredited last century.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A lesson on air pollution said that one example was Israeli smokebombs in Gaza. The added material changed the example to  forest fires.

Teachers complained about the modifications to the curriculum, and UNRWA threatened to fire anyone who did not comply, according to the official Wafa news agency.

This news was published on November 9, two days before the riots.

The Hamas site says that after the riots, concerned parents met with UNRWA officials and UNRWA agreed that schools will be allowed to hold "national events" that were going to be curtailed. It's not clear to me if this is referring to a separate UNRWA edict to curtail school activities that were anti-Israel and antisemitic (as we've seen in the past) or if this is an oblique way of referring to the curriculum changes. They certainly seem to be related.

UNRWA caved to the threats and violence, which almost certainly were sparked by the parents and teachers themselves.

But no one reported on the riots to begin with, since this is Gaza and the hundreds of reporters there aren't interested in reporting news that is too uncomfortable.  Only after the agreement where UNRWA gave in to threats and violence - the desired outcome - was this mentioned in passing as a safety issue.

(full article online)

Why were @UNRWA schools attacked in Gaza with explosive devices?  And why wasn't it reported? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

N Is For You Know Nothing Nathan Lean


----------



## JoelT1

*Welcome To Islam! *

*Starving 20,000 at Damascus camp eating dogs, cats Starving 20,000 at Damascus camp eating dogs, cats*


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


>



Who are the palestinians and where did they come from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Golbarg Bashi Did Not Think This Hashtag Through


----------



## Sixties Fan

The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, meets with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Photo: German Federal Archives via Wikimedia Commons.


Haj Amin al-Husseini was one of the seminal figures of the 20th century. He was a founding father of Palestinian nationalism and a Nazi collaborator, whose support for terror and rejection of social and political equality for Jews in their ancestral homeland are imprinted on today’s Middle East.

Despite — or perhaps because of — his crimes, al-Husseini was often celebrated in life and whitewashed in death. And an obituary from The New York Times offers some clues as to why.

Born to a ruling Jerusalem family in 1895, al-Husseini did a stint in the Ottoman Army during World War I, and later served as an Arabic translator for Reuters‘ Jerusalem bureau in 1918. Shortly thereafter, he became a leading figure in violently opposing Zionism — the belief in Jewish self-determination.

He helped orchestrate the so-called Nebi Musa riots on April 4 and 5, 1920, in which Jerusalem’s Arab residents attacked Jewish men, women and children. Prior to the riot, posters were placed in the city’s Muslim quarter, exhorting residents to “Kill the Jews: There is no punishment for killing Jews.”

(full article online)

Hitler’s ‘Jolly Elf’ and The New York Times


----------



## Sixties Fan

Back in 2014, Linda Sarsour expressed her indignation over those behind the film Honor Diaries (which highlights the plight of women in Muslim societies, who are subject to honor killings and violence) by tweeting the following

(vide online)

Leaving aside the fact that Sarsour considers herself White, the hypocrisy here is astounding. I mean, this is coming from a woman who thinks she has the right to define what Jew hatred is, already speaking in a video about it and about to speak on a panel discussing it.

(full article online)

Another of Linda Sarsour’s Old Tweets Comes Back to Haunt Her


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Jarrar may not have written the headline, a further read of his opinion piece shows that Jarrar’s father died in Jordan. Not Israel. Not the Palestinian territories.

So no, Israel certainly did not prevent Jarrar from mourning his father.

(full article online)

Politicizing a Family Death in the New York Times | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

On November 17, 2017, the Israeli newspaper Makor Rishon exposed that the Ramallah office of the Heinrich Boell Stiftung (HBS) –  a German government funded political foundation affiliated with the German Green Party – was co-sponsoring a conference, “The 1987 Intifada: History and Memory,” in commemoration of “the thirtieth Anniversary of the First Palestinian Uprising against the Israeli Occupation.” The conference, scheduled to be held in Gaza on November 24-26 and in Beirut on November 28-30, will feature speakers that are former or current members of the Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terrorist organizations.

One speaker, Hasan Yusuf, is a “*Leader in the Hamas movement in the West Bank*” (emphasis added) and was “arrested for several years by the Israeli occupation authorities.” Other speakers include Younis Aljaro, “a former leader in the *Palestinian (sic) Front for the Liberation of Palestine [PFLP]*… and Chairman of Board of Directors of [Al-Dameer] Human Rights Association in Gaza” (emphasis added).

(full article online)

Pressure Works: Heinrich Boell Foundation Withdraws from Conference Featuring Member of Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Moreover, Asaf Romirowsky, Executive Director of Scholars for Peace in the Middle East, has told the _Duke Chronicle _that he “considered the book's thesis of ‘maiming individuals in order to dehumanize’ a ‘total fallacy.’… Romirowsky added that in conflict areas, violence exists on both sides, but Israel abides by rules of engagement.”

For a certain segment of the population, there is simply no right way that Israel can defend itself from attack. Unfortunately, such individuals are increasingly finding comfortable homes in academia.

(full article online)

CAMERA Snapshots: Duke University Press Criticized for Publication of Jasbir Puar’s “Right to Maim”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Back in 2014, Linda Sarsour expressed her indignation over those behind the film Honor Diaries (which highlights the plight of women in Muslim societies, who are subject to honor killings and violence) by tweeting the following
> 
> (vide online)
> 
> Leaving aside the fact that Sarsour considers herself White, the hypocrisy here is astounding. I mean, this is coming from a woman who thinks she has the right to define what Jew hatred is, already speaking in a video about it and about to speak on a panel discussing it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another of Linda Sarsour’s Old Tweets Comes Back to Haunt Her


----------



## JoelT1

Palestine originated as a Roman name for Jews’ land. “Palestinians” are a hoax


----------



## Sixties Fan

Remember that UNRWA claims  that there are 450,000 Palestinian "refugees" in Lebanon. We have noted for yearsthat roughly half of those have fled - but UNRWA still keeps counting them.

I couldn't find the original Felesteen article, but I found one from a few months ago quoting the same al-Hanafi about a study showing how Lebanese youth know that they have no future in Lebanon. 

59% of them believe that Palestinian identity is their main obstacle to achieving their aspirations to build a family and actively contribute to the development of society.

The study said that suffering is linked to the reality of "being a Palestinian" and linked this fact to "the practice of successive Lebanese governments of the policy of deprivation and harassment of the Palestinian, so that his life has become intolerable."

70.3 percent of the 18 to 20-year Palestinians in Lebanon would migrate if given the opportunity.

(full article online)

Palestinians trying to leave Lebanon - because of Israel? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

How Old Are You Jibril Rajoub? Twelve?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Released Palestinian Authority Terrorists to Receive $10 Million Grant | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press News Briefs | 6 Kislev 5778 – November 24, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Released Palestinian Authority Terrorists to Receive $10 Million Grant | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press News Briefs | 6 Kislev 5778 – November 24, 2017 | JewishPress.com



_In addition, the PA is working to pass a new law, named after the terrorist killed by IDF soldier Elor Azaria. PA officials hope the law will be the basis for prosecuting IDF soldiers who kill terrorists, in the International Criminal Court._

I can't find any further information on this, so I'm not entirely convinced of its veracity.  But it does strike me as Palestinian mentality that it wants IDF soldiers who kill terrorists to be prosecuted by the ICC, while the terrorists are not only not prosecuted but glorified and paid.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas sets conditions


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas sets conditions



Hamas means “Islamic resistance” in Arabic How come nothing about “palestinians”? And, how come Children of Israel are in their Koran?


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestine" and "Palestinian" are European settler colonial terms for the land of the Jewish people. I think we should cease to use those terms or, at least, put them in quotes.

Or perhaps go with _Palestinian-Arab_.

In truth, the greater Arab nation gave the world "Palestinians" - a word which used to mainly refer to Jews living under the British mandate - as a challenge to Jewish sovereignty on historically Jewish land.

The Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel.

The Arabs are settlers and colonists on Jewish land.

I certainly do not mind that Arabs live there. Nor do I mind that Chinese people or Venezuelans or the Easter Islandish live there.

But none of those folk can claim sovereignty because none of them are indigenous.

Only the Jewish people have a claim to indigeneity to that land and we must insist on this basic concept.

(full article online)

Israel Thrives: "Palestine" is a Wraith


----------



## Sixties Fan

Saturday was the "International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women."

The Palestinian Authority noted the day, in its usual way: by using it as a platform to blame Israel.

While one in four married Palestinian women report physical abuse, this is not mentioned in the official PA commemorations of the day. They brush aside any hint of those problems and only admit gender discrimination as a result of Arab heritage.

Instead, they say that all of the problems of Palestinian women are a result of the "occupation." At a conference last week, PA officials and ministers talked about how Palestinian women were fighting for Jerusalem against Israeli violence, how Jews are supposedly taking off their headscarves, and it called on the international community and international NGOs "to stand up against the violations committed against women in Jerusalem in particular and in Palestine in general through implementing  United Nations resolutions on ending the occupation and recognition of the Palestinian state."

(full article online)

How the "occupation" hurts Palestinian women ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Keep in mind that the media in Gaza, including religious media, is filled with calls to violence and murder. But not usually against other Muslims.

A mark of maturity is the ability to take responsibility for things. ISIS, Al Qaeda and other terror groups didn't appear out of a vacuum - their founders were all members of the Muslim Brotherhood, as were the founders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. There is no difference in their interpretations of the Koran that I am aware of. By claiming that these ISIS and ISIS-inspired attacks are really done on behalf of Israel (or, as Iran says, the US,) the Muslim world is not doing anything to actually solve the problem. On the contrary, they are trying to distance themselves from these groups - because they know that their own support for terror is not very far from that of ISIS and al-Qaeda and they do not have an ideological leg to stand on.

(full article online)

Palestinian religious leaders say Egyptian mosque attack is a Zionist plot ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The US recycles demands of the PA, will US ignore PA violations as in the past? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## jamesduncan

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel.
> The Arabs are settlers and colonists on Jewish land.
> Only the Jewish people have a claim to indigeneity to that land



*Wrong & yet this myth continues even today*​
Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried."  "I will do as you say," he said. ;

Genesis 50:14 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.

Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried."  "I will do as you say," he said. ;

Genesis 49:31 *There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.*

Genesis 50:10  And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, *which is beyond Jordan*, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation:

Genesis 50:14 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.

Genesis 50:15 After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.

You bury your great leaders in your own homeland

Which Is Not the land falsely called “Israel” today

The truth will set you free -​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jamjoun explained that someone they tried to interview for the exhibition had lived in Deir Yassin. Jamjoun told the audience what apparently happened there:

“There was a retributory attack on Deir Yassin. The bodies of the people who were killed and mutilated were then paraded around the Zionist neighbourhoods of western Jerusalem. It was a very intentional psychological warfare of getting stories of murder, rape and killing pregnant women to go far because it would scare and was extremely effective.”

A new book describes there being nothing of the sort having happened at Deir Yassin.

Jacqueline Reem Salloum told us how upset she was seeing Israelis cooking falafel which she described as being “our food”. She needs reminding that Jews have been living in Israel for over 2,000 years so it has been Israeli food also. She also told us that her cake exhibit was made of decommissioned bullets bought off the internet. So not even Israeli bullets, which kind of defeats her point.

She said they’d eventually expand the exhibition to include interviewees from Syria, Iraq and Yemen. I doubt that will come to fruition. Why would they want to dilute their anti-Israel propaganda?

(Full article online)

Students at SOAS told that Zionists paraded dead and mutilated Arab bodies through Jerusalem.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Palestinian President Mahmoud 'Abbas recently awarded a medal of honor to Egyptian writer Mohamed Salmawy, the former chairman of the Egyptian Writers Union and currently an advisor to the union, for his literary contribution to the Palestinian cause. The award ceremony, held at the Palestinian embassy in Cairo, was attended by Palestinian officials and writers. Speakers at the ceremony emphasized that Salmawy's works documented the stories of martyrs and served as "literary-ideological weapons" in the service of the Palestinian cause. One month ago, Salmawy was also awarded the "Yasser Arafat Africa Prize for Freedom and Peace" in Senegal, at the initiative of the Palestinian ambassador to the country. This prize was awarded at a festive event sponsored by the Senegalese president and attended by the Palestinian ambassador and by Senegalese and Arab officials._

_Salmawy, renowned in the Arab world and especially in Egypt, is known for his virulently antisemitic views. In February 1998, he published in the French-language Egyptian weekly _Al-Ahram Hebdo_ an article titled "Look for the Jews!", in which he argued, citing French Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy and American antisemite David Irving, that the Jews seek to harm anyone who does not support them. He implied that the Jews were behind the publicizing of the Lewinsky scandal with the aim of preventing then U.S. president Bill Clinton from pressuring the Israeli government into making concessions to the Palestinians. He also attacked the French law criminalizing Holocaust denial and the charges brought against Roger Garaudy based on this law, writing: "The thinker Roger Garaudy is being prosecuted on the basis of a law that seems to belong to the Middle-Ages, but which was passed in 1990. This law... bans the questioning of crimes against humanity. However, in this case the word 'humanity' does not refer to the human race, but only to six million Jews who were supposedly the victims of genocide during World War II."[1]_

(full article online)

Palestinian President Mahmoud 'Abbas Awards Medal Of Honor To Egyptian Writer Mohamed Salmawy, Known For His Extremist And Antisemitic Views


----------



## JoelT1

Arabs laugh: When were there palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Petra, the official Jordanian news agency:

"  Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, on Friday said that Jordanians and Palestinians are "one people living in two states", appreciating His Majesty King Abdullah II, who spared no occasion to defend the Palestinian cause and Jerusalem before the world."

If any Western leader would say this, there would be incredulous op-eds castigating him or her.

If Netanyahu would say this, the UN would call for a resolution condemning him.

When Abbas says something that puts into question whether there ever was a "Palestinian people" that was distinct from the rest of the Arab world - crickets.

(h/t This Ongoing War)

Mahmoud Abbas admits that Palestinians and Jordanians are the same people ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

Sixties Fan said:


> From Petra, the official Jordanian news agency:
> 
> "  Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, on Friday said that Jordanians and Palestinians are "one people living in two states", appreciating His Majesty King Abdullah II, who spared no occasion to defend the Palestinian cause and Jerusalem before the world."
> 
> If any Western leader would say this, there would be incredulous op-eds castigating him or her.
> 
> If Netanyahu would say this, the UN would call for a resolution condemning him.
> 
> When Abbas says something that puts into question whether there ever was a "Palestinian people" that was distinct from the rest of the Arab world - crickets.
> 
> (h/t This Ongoing War)
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas admits that Palestinians and Jordanians are the same people ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Jordan is Hebrew in origin, EverHaYarden. And palestine is Jewish in origin, a Roman name imposed on ancient Israel.

Jordanians and palestinians are invented people.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority knowingly put thousands of Gazans' lives at risk starting in March of this year - and the world didn't care.

Even the UN knows, and buries, the truth.

From the latest OCHA (UN) Gaza Crisis paper:

 A series of measures implemented by the Palestinian Authority since March 2017, following an escalation in the internal Palestinian divide,have led to a deterioration in the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip. ....These measures haveexacerbated Gaza’s energy crisis, resulting in increasing outages from 12-16 to 18-20 hours a day, worsened the salary crisis in the public sector, increased the shortage of essential drugs from around 33% in March to 45% in October and delayed the referral of patients for medical treatment outside Gaza.

(full article online)

The past 8 months prove (again) that "pro-Palestinian" really means "anti-Israel" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even Susan Rice told the Palestinians that they were at fault for not making peace ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians and where did they come from?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rather than disarm, Hamas vows to attack Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The description of the end of one of these meetings is quite revealing:

 At the end of the meeting, it was confirmed that the teachers and teachers refused to sign any papers or deal with the decisions of the Agency's administration. The aim of these measures is to steal  the toil and efforts of the teachers through a planned policy of piracy that begins with stealing the wages of the teachers and ends with doing away with the issue of the refugees .Every single time UNRWA threatens to cut a service because it doesn't have the money, the pushback from Palestinians is insanely over-the-top. They start with threats, move on to strikes and eventually go to violence, and that constant threat of terror causes UNRWA to find some Western country to donate and hold off the next "crisis."
--------

But the reason why they are so adamant against the slightest compromise is revealed here: The Palestinians think there is a slippery slope between losing a penny of UNRWA benefits - and UNRWA benefits disappearing altogether.

Which means that they will no longer be considered "refugees," uniquely defined among the 50 million real refugees in the world today.

(full article online)

Palestinians know if UNRWA disappears, so does their fake "refugee" status ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

An Arab Muslim in the Israeli Army


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 27-Nov-17: Children, knives, sacred places


----------



## Sixties Fan

I discovered this nearly ten years ago, and it is more relevant today.

Palestinian Arabs, especially those who live in the West, like to define themselves as "people of color" so they can pretend to have solidarity with non-white people. This is of course a cynical ploy - they don't care about the rights of others; they are trying to hijack other movements for their own gain.

But not too long ago, the infamous Mufti of Jerusalem, the first leader of Palestinian Arabs, became good friends with Heinrich Himmler - because he had blond hair and blue eyes.

From the Palestine Post, March 28, 1948:

(full article online)

The first Palestinian Arab leader had blue eyes and blond hair. He had Aryan privilege! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

No one even blinks at these lies any more.

Part of the lie is simple psychological projection. Because, indeed, Palestinian nationalism is not built on the desire for an independent nation state for the "Palestinian people." That goal could have been accomplished a half dozen times since 1947. Palestinian nationalism is centered around the destruction of the Jewish state by any and all means possible.

So naturally Palestinians see Zionism as a projection of what they themselves want. A goal that Palestinians freely admit in surveys.

Barghouti unwittingly admits this. Later on in this essay he says "the Zionist project has awakened Palestinian nationalism."

Exactly. There would be no Palestinian nationalism if it wasn't for Zionism. They would be part of a greater Jordan or Greater Syria or Greater Egypt - there never would be any interest in an independent Palestinian state if Israel never existed. 

(full article online)

Mustafa Barghouti accidentally admits that there would be no Palestinianism without Zionism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Khaled, a member of the PFLP terror group, spoke at the European Parliament in September, and the backlash was belated but fierce. The Parliament passed a motion not to allow members of known terror organizations to speak there again. In an era of Islamist bombers in European cities, it was realized that perhaps treating one of the earliest modern terrorists as a hero was not a good message to send.

(full article online)

Palestinian terrorist Leila Khaled turned back from Italian airport ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The description of the end of one of these meetings is quite revealing:
> 
> At the end of the meeting, it was confirmed that the teachers and teachers refused to sign any papers or deal with the decisions of the Agency's administration. The aim of these measures is to steal  the toil and efforts of the teachers through a planned policy of piracy that begins with stealing the wages of the teachers and ends with doing away with the issue of the refugees .Every single time UNRWA threatens to cut a service because it doesn't have the money, the pushback from Palestinians is insanely over-the-top. They start with threats, move on to strikes and eventually go to violence, and that constant threat of terror causes UNRWA to find some Western country to donate and hold off the next "crisis."
> --------
> 
> But the reason why they are so adamant against the slightest compromise is revealed here: The Palestinians think there is a slippery slope between losing a penny of UNRWA benefits - and UNRWA benefits disappearing altogether.
> 
> Which means that they will no longer be considered "refugees," uniquely defined among the 50 million real refugees in the world today.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians know if UNRWA disappears, so does their fake "refugee" status ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


UNRWA does not define refugee status.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> No one even blinks at these lies any more.
> 
> Part of the lie is simple psychological projection. Because, indeed, Palestinian nationalism is not built on the desire for an independent nation state for the "Palestinian people." That goal could have been accomplished a half dozen times since 1947. Palestinian nationalism is centered around the destruction of the Jewish state by any and all means possible.
> 
> So naturally Palestinians see Zionism as a projection of what they themselves want. A goal that Palestinians freely admit in surveys.
> 
> Barghouti unwittingly admits this. Later on in this essay he says "the Zionist project has awakened Palestinian nationalism."
> 
> Exactly. There would be no Palestinian nationalism if it wasn't for Zionism. They would be part of a greater Jordan or Greater Syria or Greater Egypt - there never would be any interest in an independent Palestinian state if Israel never existed.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti accidentally admits that there would be no Palestinianism without Zionism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Israeli bullshit, of course. The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.


----------



## admonit

P F Tinmore said:


> UNRWA does not define refugee status.


*Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*

Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*


P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.


Also wrong.


----------



## P F Tinmore

admonit said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not define refugee status.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also wrong.
Click to expand...

UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.

You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.


----------



## admonit

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not define refugee status.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
Click to expand...

All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.


> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.


How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.


----------



## P F Tinmore

admonit said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not define refugee status.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.
Click to expand...

Britain had the guns.


----------



## admonit

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not define refugee status.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain had the guns.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant.
You still didn't answer how "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence".


----------



## jamesduncan

Sixties Fan said:


> Part of the lie is simple psychological projection. Because, indeed, Palestinian nationalism is not built on the desire for an independent nation state for the "Palestinian people."



Face reality or live in la la land as if I cared. In the real world:​
[1] Part of the lie is simple psychological projection.
[2] Zionism is a terrorist cult
[3] Israel as a state; never existed before 1947
[4] Palestine exists in history books and everyone, including yourself continue to use this term
[5] Israel was a person, not a place

Facts are impossible to refute because; THEY ARE FACTS​the myth has been busted -


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians agree to delay Gaza handover as unity deal founders


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians agree to delay Gaza handover as unity deal founders



I find that shocking!


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas-run union for public employees said it had instructed its delegates to block former employees from returning to work at the ministries, saying their return came in a “random manner” and aimed at “creating great problems.”

Witnesses said dozens of former employees were prevented from going back to work at the finance, health and education ministries among others.

(full article online)

PA employees blocked from resuming work at Gaza ministries


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even worse, they are silent against the Palestinian Authority that maintains refugee camps in the territories that they control and administer!

How can you still be a Palestinian refugee when you live under the control of the Palestinian Authority?

How can you still be a Palestinian refugee when you live under the control of the Palestinian Authority?
Go figure, because I don’t have the answer. Perhaps BDS does.

People who don’t care a hoot about the Kurds, Yazidis or Druze, yell and scream about the Palestinian condition.

(full article online)

Pro-Palestinian Pretense | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Barry Shaw | 12 Kislev 5778 – November 30, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF spokesperson on Thursday afternoon announced that Israeli forces attacked four terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip. The attack was carried out in response to high-trajectory fire at an IDF post in the northern Gaza Strip.

The spokesperson reiterated that Israel sees the Hamas terror organization as responsible for anything happening in the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Mortar Shell Barrage from Gaza Strip, IDF Retaliates | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 12 Kislev 5778 – November 30, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[How some Arabs love rocks more than children, any children. PA education really works ]

And Arab man, 48, was killed Thursday morning by a parent accompanying a children’s bar mitzvah hike well outside the village of Qusra in the Shchem area. The IDF has announced that the shooting was carried out in self-defense after an Arab mob threw stones at the children.

According to Honenu, a group of children from Samaria who had left their homes Thursday morning for a planned trip that received the IDF’s approval, near the settlement of Migdalim and the Alon Road, was attacked by an Arab mob that tried to lynch them.

According to eyewitnesses, dozens of rioters participated in the lynch attempt. the rioters threw stones and rocks at the children for long minutes, pushing them and the supervising adults back down the rocky slope, exposing them to danger both by stoning them and by causing them to slip and fall on the dangerous slope.

(Full article online)

Arab Shot Dead as Mob Tries to Lynch Jewish Children Hiking in Samaria | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 12 Kislev 5778 – November 30, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Even worse than first reported ]

“After an hour and a half the soldiers arrived. We thought the guard had been killed, and that the [Arabs] were going to murder us.”

“They [the terrorists] told us that anyone over the age of 18 would be slaughtered, and that the children would be taken prisoner. The children were all crying and reciting ‘Shema Yisrael’ [said when a person believes he is about to die]. They ordered us not to speak, and yelled at us – they were constantly yelling at us in Arabic – and threw stones.”

(full article online)

'The Arabs threatened us with a gun, said they'd slaughter us'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Like most Arab countries, the Saudis too have finally realized that the Palestinians are ungrateful and untrustworthy. Saudi Arabia and most of the Arab countries are obviously fed up with the recurring attempts by the Palestinians to blackmail them and extort money from them.


The Palestinians are crying Wolf, Wolf! -- but only a few in the Arab world are listening to them. This, in a way, is encouraging and offers hope for them finally to be released from decades of repressive and corrupt governance.


These are just some of the challenges Saudi Crown Prince is facing. It is important to support him in the face of attacks by some Palestinians and other spoilers.

(full article online)

Saudis Fed Up: "Palestinians Milking Us for Decades"


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The significance of Abu Marzouq's objection to this Arab consensus [that Hizbullah is a terrorist organization] is that he and his movement are deviating from what is accepted [in the Arab world], are supporting the Rule of the Jurisprudent [of Iran], and are pleased with its [Iran's] criminal deeds. This behavior on the part of Abu Marzouq reflects a great deal of denial of the [years-]long efforts of Saudi Arabia and its steadfast positions vis-à-vis the Palestinian cause. These efforts are more significant than those of Abu Marzouq and the [other] ungrateful ideologues of his ilk. They are salient efforts discussed in history books since the era of the founding monarch King Abd Al-'Aziz Al-Rahman Aal-Saud, through [the eras of] all the Saudi kings up to our time.

(full article online)

https://www.memri.org/reports/editor-of-saudi-daily-attacks-hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Absolutely !  Lets have peace negotiations with Muslims who think this way. ]

 Song on PA TV promises to attack Jews:
"We will raise the Fatah flag with the rifle...
We will come at you from the sea...
We are soldiers, until we break the Jews"


Music video includes photos of terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led attack from the sea in which 37 Israeli civilians, among them 12 children, were murdered

Song glorifies death for "the homeland"

(full article online)

Song on PA TV promises to attack Jews - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

The first thing that happened after implementation of the deal in early November was that prices of merchandise imported to Gaza plummeted by up to 25 percent. Having your money go 25 percent further is an obvious boon to anyone, but especially for impoverished Gazans. Prices fell because, for the first time in a decade, Gazans weren’t paying taxes to two different governments–the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza–but only to one. As part of the reconciliation deal, Hamas handed control of Gaza’s borders to the PA and dismantled the tax collection checkpoints it had set up at the border crossings.

(full article online)

Gaza Continues to Suffer as Hamas Exploits the Reconciliation Deal


----------



## P F Tinmore

admonit said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not define refugee status.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians begged Britain for independence all during is occu...er...Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain had the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant.
> You still didn't answer how "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence".
Click to expand...

Here are some early corespondents. This was a problem all through the Mandate period.

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*Also wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain had the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant.
> You still didn't answer how "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some early corespondents. This was a problem all through the Mandate period.
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...

Wrong Thread


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*Also wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain had the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant.
> You still didn't answer how "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some early corespondents. This was a problem all through the Mandate period.
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...


It was an Arab pledge  to include whole of Palestine into a bigger Arab Syria.
This delegation spoke only on behalf of the Arabs, as written in the title, not the Palestinian Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Back in the 1990s, civil rights activists coined the term “DWB” (driving while black) to highlight the frequency of incidents in which African-American motorists were stopped by the police without just cause. It was as if the drivers were considered guilty of something simply because they were black.

In the wake of Thursday’s mob attack in Israel, it’s time to coin a new term: “WWJ,” walking while Jewish.

Two parents and a group of young Jewish children set out on a hike in the Shomron (Samaria) region, as part of a bar mitzvah celebration. The hike was coordinated in advance with the Israeli army, which gave its approval. Each of the parents carried a weapon, at the army’s request.

They didn’t hike through any Arab villages. They didn’t create a settlement. They didn’t bother anybody, violate any law or do anything wrong. Their only “crime” was that they were walking while Jewish.

Some Palestinian Arabs spotted the children. Keep in mind that these are Palestinians who have been educated in Palestinian schools. You would think that if the Palestinians were sincere when they signed the Oslo Accords, they would have changed the curricula in their schools, in order to encourage peace and coexistence.

But as Palestinian Media Watch and other groups have repeatedly documented, Palestinian school textbooks still teach vicious hatred of Israel. They portray all of Israel as “occupied Palestine.” They depict Jews as devils, rats, insects and butchers. They hail Arab murderers of Jews as “heroes” and “martyrs.”

(full article online)

The crime: walking while Jewish


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## Sixties Fan

[ Peace with Arab liars?  How is that supposed to happen? ]

Abbas demands international protection for Palestinians after West Bank shooting


----------



## admonit

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugees as Defined by UNRWA*
> 
> Anyone  whose  normal  place of  residence  was  in  Mandate Palestine during the period from 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of  livelihood  as  a  result  of  the 1948  Arab-Israeli  war  *qualifies as a Palestine refugee, as defined by  UNRWA*Also wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. Their definition is only for refugees who qualify for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All refugees need aid. Palestinian refugees are defined by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read up on Britain's actions during the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How Britain's actions during the Mandate period can support that "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence"? It should be Palestinian actions, not British.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain had the guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant.
> You still didn't answer how "the Palestinians begged Britain for independence".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some early corespondents. This was a problem all through the Mandate period.
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...

The presented correspondence discussed the Palestine Order in Council in 1922 before British mandate established.
The independence of Palestine was not a main subject of the discussion and was mentioned by Musa Kazim only as a possibility.
To "beg Britain for independence " Palestinian Arabs first needed clearly to formulate such important goal for themselves. And the Palestine Arab Congress failed in doing it.
First congress: Jerusalem, 1919: Palestine should be part of Arab Syria
Third congress: Haifa, 1920: Called for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state
Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia
Nothing about Palestinian independence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When faced with opposing accounts, I am usually skeptical of the palestinian one, for the sole reason that their track record in lying is very impressive. But I always endeavor to be intellectually honest, and try and work out who is telling the truth, based on the available information, looking at things like plausibility and inconsistencies in the accounts.

In this case, the palestinians made a huge error. They posted a video that aligns with the IDF version that the Israelis were trapped in a cave. Not only that, but the video shows they were mostly children!

(video online)

New Blood Libel: The Case of the “Murdered” Palestinian Farmer


----------



## jamesduncan

Sixties Fan said:


> [How some Arabs love rocks more than children,



Oh my.., just how much do the Zionists "love" to *murder children*~~~?​
I Googled “Israelis killing children”
About 537,000 results (0.39 seconds)
*Search Results*

*These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2016* | The ...
_https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/.../these-are-palestinian-children-killed-israel-2016_

Jan 27, 2017 - *Thirty-five Palestinian* *children* were *killed* by *Israeli* soldiers, police and armed civilians during the year, all but four of the deadly incidents ...
Invisible killings: Israel's daily toll of Palestinian children | The ...

_https://electronicintifada.net/content/invisible-killings-israels-daily-toll...children/4263_

Convincing the *Israeli* adults in control of this weaponry in civilian areas that they should not be using it to *kill children* who are merely stone throwers should not ...

Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months | News | Al Jazeera
_www.aljazeera.com/.../israel-killed-25-palestinian-children-months-16051414083314..._

May 14, 2016 - *Twenty-five Palestinian* *children* were *killed* in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-*Israeli* attacks and the number detained was ...
One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years ...

_One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years: statistics..._
 “The International Day for the Protection of *Children* is on June 1,” said a spokesman, “but Palestinian *children* are still subject to attacks by the *Israelis* and ...

Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000 – Middle ...
_Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000..._

Jun 1, 2017 - *Israel has killed more than 3,000 children since 28 September 2000* when the Second Intifada began until the end of April 2017, a new report ...
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia
_Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia_

*Children* in the *Israeli*–Palestinian conflict refers to the impact of the *Israeli*–Palestinian conflict .... Though *Israeli children* were *killed* in the conflict during the decades prior, the first acts of
*12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000*
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/sniper.html

*Gaza girl said killed*
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
Thu., October 28, 2004

*IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp *
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

*Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot* by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

*Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and dead while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004*
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2785.shtml

In March 2003
*12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet* fired *Two 10 year-old school children were shot* in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, *when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*

*Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window*, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk

*Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
September 8, 2003
*Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
 28 July 2003

*She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying*,
'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head*, one straight after the other.

*She was still in my arms and she died."*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1007051,00.html

*IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets * and then the *IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again* to make sure she was dead
 Tue.,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

*“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." *

http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/children.html

One might ask
why do the indigenous Palestinians
dislike the Israeli "occupation?????
Oh what's the problem
I just LOVE
*killing Palestinian children*
because they can't defend themselves​Just asking -


----------



## Hollie

jamesduncan said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [How some Arabs love rocks more than children,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my.., just how much do the Zionists "love" to *murder children*~~~?​
> I Googled “Israelis killing children”
> About 537,000 results (0.39 seconds)
> *Search Results*
> 
> *These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2016* | The ...
> _https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/.../these-are-palestinian-children-killed-israel-2016_
> 
> Jan 27, 2017 - *Thirty-five Palestinian* *children* were *killed* by *Israeli* soldiers, police and armed civilians during the year, all but four of the deadly incidents ...
> Invisible killings: Israel's daily toll of Palestinian children | The ...
> 
> _https://electronicintifada.net/content/invisible-killings-israels-daily-toll...children/4263_
> 
> Convincing the *Israeli* adults in control of this weaponry in civilian areas that they should not be using it to *kill children* who are merely stone throwers should not ...
> 
> Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months | News | Al Jazeera
> _www.aljazeera.com/.../israel-killed-25-palestinian-children-months-16051414083314..._
> 
> May 14, 2016 - *Twenty-five Palestinian* *children* were *killed* in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-*Israeli* attacks and the number detained was ...
> One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years ...
> 
> _One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years: statistics..._
> “The International Day for the Protection of *Children* is on June 1,” said a spokesman, “but Palestinian *children* are still subject to attacks by the *Israelis* and ...
> 
> Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000 – Middle ...
> _Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000..._
> 
> Jun 1, 2017 - *Israel has killed more than 3,000 children since 28 September 2000* when the Second Intifada began until the end of April 2017, a new report ...
> Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia
> _Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia_
> 
> *Children* in the *Israeli*–Palestinian conflict refers to the impact of the *Israeli*–Palestinian conflict .... Though *Israeli children* were *killed* in the conflict during the decades prior, the first acts of
> *12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
> Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000*
> http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/sniper.html
> 
> *Gaza girl said killed*
> By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
> and Haaretz Service
> Thu., October 28, 2004
> 
> *IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp *
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html
> 
> *Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot* by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
> http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/
> 
> *Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and dead while buying candy with her friends.
> 5 June 2004*
> http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2785.shtml
> 
> In March 2003
> *12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet* fired *Two 10 year-old school children were shot* in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, *when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*
> 
> *Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window*, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html
> 
> *An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
> http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk
> 
> *Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
> September 8, 2003
> *Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
> 28 July 2003
> 
> *She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying*,
> 'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head*, one straight after the other.
> 
> *She was still in my arms and she died."*
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1007051,00.html
> 
> *IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets * and then the *IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again* to make sure she was dead
> Tue.,
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html
> 
> *“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." *
> 
> http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/children.html
> 
> One might ask
> why do the indigenous Palestinians
> dislike the Israeli "occupation?????
> Oh what's the problem
> I just LOVE
> *killing Palestinian children*
> because they can't defend themselves​Just asking -
Click to expand...


Aren't you lucky that your islamic terrorist heroes supply a steady stream of disposable humans they can put in harms way as "martyrs".

Just sayin'


----------



## jamesduncan

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Absolutely !  Lets have peace negotiations with Muslims who think this way. ]
> 
> Song on PA TV promises to attack Jews:
> "We will raise the Fatah flag with the rifle...
> We will come at you from the sea...
> We are soldiers, until we break the Jews"
> 
> 
> Music video includes photos of terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led attack from the sea in which 37 Israeli civilians, among them 12 children, were murdered
> 
> Song glorifies death for "the homeland"
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Song on PA TV promises to attack Jews - PMW Bulletins



_Liar
-_​


----------



## Hollie

jamesduncan said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Absolutely !  Lets have peace negotiations with Muslims who think this way. ]
> 
> Song on PA TV promises to attack Jews:
> "We will raise the Fatah flag with the rifle...
> We will come at you from the sea...
> We are soldiers, until we break the Jews"
> 
> 
> Music video includes photos of terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led attack from the sea in which 37 Israeli civilians, among them 12 children, were murdered
> 
> Song glorifies death for "the homeland"
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Song on PA TV promises to attack Jews - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Liar
> -_​
Click to expand...


Someone of few words, and thoughts, and abilities.


----------



## Art__Allm

JoelT1 said:


> Khazar foolishness was discredited last century.



Before the creation of Israel and the invention of the "Jewish people" by Zionists the history of Khazaria was accepted by all major Jewish historians. And Jewish historians also agreed that Palestinians were the real descendants of Hebrews.

A century ago Zionists were just a small group of extremists, most Jews looked at Zionist as at crazy people. These crazy people first invented a language, called "Ivrith", the first speaker of this language was a boy that was not permitted to play with other kids.

And his father was beating his mother because tried tried to sing to her son songs in her native language, speak Russian songs.

So the first speaker of Ivrith was denied the right to speak the language of his mother, this language was born in a very violent way.

That was the first crazy act of Zionists.

After that they continued with their fraud, they became more and more influential, they re-wrote the history of Jews and now they even try to convince the scientists that conversion to Judaism changed the genes of pagans, and they are claiming that there is a "Jewish gene", and that a religious group can be defined by the DNA.

As we see, money and influence can create a virtual reality, but how long can this fake reality survive?


----------



## jamesduncan

Art__Allm said:


> .,.,.,.,_Before the creation of Israel and the invention of the "Jewish people" by Zionists the history of Khazaria was accepted by all major Jewish historians. And Jewish historians also agreed that Palestinians were the real descendants of Hebrews._
> 
> _A century ago Zionists were just a small group of extremists, most Jews looked at Zionist as at crazy people. These crazy people first invented a language, called "Ivrith", the first speaker of this language was a boy that was not permitted to play with other kids_.



Since you know all this then why don't you join others to condemn these acts of murder and
blasphemy?
Convince the Israelis to repent, return to the teachings of God, become the example of good, not evil.

Please visit this forum--it is here on this web site
What is Israel's legal "right to exist?"



-


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Khazar foolishness was discredited last century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before the creation of Israel and the invention of the "Jewish people" by Zionists the history of Khazaria was accepted by all major Jewish historians. And Jewish historians also agreed that Palestinians were the real descendants of Hebrews.
> 
> A century ago Zionists were just a small group of extremists, most Jews looked at Zionist as at crazy people. These crazy people first invented a language, called "Ivrith", the first speaker of this language was a boy that was not permitted to play with other kids.
> 
> And his father was beating his mother because tried tried to sing to her son songs in her native language, speak Russian songs.
> 
> So the first speaker of Ivrith was denied the right to speak the language of his mother, this language was born in a very violent way.
> 
> That was the first crazy act of Zionists.
> 
> After that they continued with their fraud, they became more and more influential, they re-wrote the history of Jews and now they even try to convince the scientists that conversion to Judaism changed the genes of pagans, and they are claiming that there is a "Jewish gene", and that a religious group can be defined by the DNA.
> 
> As we see, money and influence can create a virtual reality, but how long can this fake reality survive?
Click to expand...

<<Before the creation of Israel and the invention of the "Jewish people" by Zionists the history of Khazaria was accepted by all major Jewish historians. And Jewish historians also agreed that Palestinians were the real descendants of Hebrews.>>

Do offer evidence of that paragraph and not just allegations as to what it says.

Name each and every one of those Jewish Historians, who believed what you allege, before 1948.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Art__Allm said:


> JoelT1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Khazar foolishness was discredited last century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before the creation of Israel and the invention of the "Jewish people" by Zionists the history of Khazaria was accepted by all major Jewish historians. And Jewish historians also agreed that Palestinians were the real descendants of Hebrews.
> 
> A century ago Zionists were just a small group of extremists, most Jews looked at Zionist as at crazy people. These crazy people first invented a language, called "Ivrith", the first speaker of this language was a boy that was not permitted to play with other kids.
> 
> And his father was beating his mother because tried tried to sing to her son songs in her native language, speak Russian songs.
> 
> So the first speaker of Ivrith was denied the right to speak the language of his mother, this language was born in a very violent way.
> 
> That was the first crazy act of Zionists.
> 
> After that they continued with their fraud, they became more and more influential, they re-wrote the history of Jews and now they even try to convince the scientists that conversion to Judaism changed the genes of pagans, and they are claiming that there is a "Jewish gene", and that a religious group can be defined by the DNA.
> 
> As we see, money and influence can create a virtual reality, but how long can this fake reality survive?
Click to expand...

<<After that they continued with their fraud, they became more and more influential, they re-wrote the history of Jews and now they even try to convince the scientists that conversion to Judaism changed the genes of pagans, and they are claiming that there is a "Jewish gene", and that a religious group can be defined by the DNA.>>>>

Absolutely Masterful !!!!!

Bravo!!!!

When it comes to hatred of Jews, no evidence is EVER required.
Say anything, allege anything, and the ARTs of the world will fall hook, line and sinker into it.

Bravo ART


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamdallah said at the ceremony, "Despite the settlement activities carried out by Israel, the Palestinian people still believe in the culture of coexistence, brotherhood and peace that our Lord Jesus Christ has brought to them, and we call on the entire world to take a united stand to end the longest occupation and oppression of history. And the realization of the rights of our people and the recognition of its state, especially as the two-state solution is in real and serious danger due to Israel's persistence in its violations and its disregard for international law, human rights principles and signed agreements. "

The tree lighting isn't to remind people of peace on earth and goodwill towards men. it is meant to bash Israel, the only nation in the region that Christians aren't fleeing.

(full article online)

The cynical Palestinian lighting of a Christmas tree in a city that Christians are fleeing ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jewish Groups at UC Berkeley Call for Removal of Professor Who Shared Antisemitic Images


----------



## Sixties Fan

Linda Sarsour loves me; she loves me not


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Linda Sarsour loves me; she loves me not


It seems that every doofus in the world is climbing out from under his rock to criticize Linda Sarsour.

"If you are not being criticized, you are not doing enough." ~ Linda Sarsour


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour loves me; she loves me not
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that every doofus in the world is climbing out from under his rock to criticize Linda Sarsour.
> 
> "If you are not being criticized, you are not doing enough." ~ Linda Sarsour
Click to expand...


Indeed, as one would expect from a pious Moslem / extreme Jew hater like Linda Sarsour, all fault for her failures and ineptitudes fall squarely on the _Jew Controlled Media™️

Linda Sarsour Blames ‘Jewish Media’ For Her Unpopularity_



I suppose it would be _racist_™️, maybe even _islamophobic_™️ but definitely _Multiculturally Insensitive_™️ to suggest that Islamist fascists like Linda Sarsour are responsible for people’s views that she is just a wannabe Ayatollah, wearing her Islamic protective gear.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reason for the drop in medications, which result in more applications for medical treatment in Israel and therefore more delays? The Palestinian Authority.

The reasons for the drop in electricity and fuel, causing surgeries to not be possible in Gaza and causing more people to seek treatment in Israel, endangering their lives? The Palestinian Authority.

The reason that there are fewer patients being approved to leave Gaza? The Palestinian Authority!

But Haaretz and Hass downplay this. They barely mention enough to pretend to be even-handed (which, in Amira Hass' case, is an improvement), but the average reader comes away with this story with more hate for Israel, and none for the Palestinians who pursue a policy of directly hurting their own people.


(full article online)

Palestinian responsibility for Gaza patient deaths is all but ignored ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

What Ashrawi and Habash and other Palestinian officials are really saying is the same thing that Arabs have told the West over the years: _"Look, we Arabs are irrational, violent people. If you do something to upset us, we cannot be held responsible because, frankly, we are mentally unstable. Therefore, it is your responsibility to ensure that nothing happens that might upset us. _

_"Don't pretend that there is any rational basis for our threatening to burn half the world if you do something we don't like. There isn't. Treat us like we have severe psychological problems, like we have no free will or rational thought. Our violence is because of your actions._

_"And, by the way, you must grant statehood to this group of mentally unstable, violent people. Because who knows what we can do to you if you don't?"_

The way to react to threats is not to cave to them. The way to force people to act like adults is to force them to take responsibility for their own actions. Any violence is the fault of the people who do the violence and those who incite them.

(full article online)

Palestinians again threaten the world, and blame others ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour loves me; she loves me not
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that every doofus in the world is climbing out from under his rock to criticize Linda Sarsour.
> 
> "If you are not being criticized, you are not doing enough." ~ Linda Sarsour
Click to expand...


I wish I could take their vaginas away - they don't deserve to be women.
– _Linda Sarsour_


The existential threat resides in the White House, in the highest offices of these lands, we are now living under fascism – that’s what I believe – and we need all hands on deck.
– _Linda Sarsour_


Yes P.F. Tinmore, we need a theocratic state with an Ayatollah in the Whitehouse, and Linda Sarsour to serve as Minister Of Women's vaginas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In keeping with the habit of Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Movement to praise and elevate terrorists to the status of role models, the movement posted a photo of bomb maker Shadia Abu Ghazaleh as a teenager on its Facebook page on the anniversary of her death, with the text:




"On this exact day in 1968, self-sacrificing fighter (_Fida'iya_) Shadia Abu Ghazaleh died as a Martyr (_Shahid_) in the explosion of a bomb, while preparing it for carrying out an operation (i.e., terror attack) against occupation targets."
[Official Fatah Facebook page, 
Nov. 28, 2017]
'
Shadia Abu Ghazaleh was active in the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror organization and prepared bombs for many attacks against Israel. While she was preparing a bomb for an attack in Tel Aviv in 1968, it accidentally detonated and killed her.

That the Palestinian Authority wishes to promote Abu Ghazaleh as a role model for Palestinians is also evident from the fact that they have named a school after her. As documented by Palestinian Media Watch, girls attending this school view the bomb maker as a hero: 

"The school is named after her to commemorate her and memorialize her and encourage people to be like her."

"She was a model of the wonderful female Palestinian fighter. We follow her path in this school."
[Official PA TV, Dec. 5 and 9, 2013]

It is possible that Fatah chose a photo of the bomb maker as a teenager deliberately, so as to make young Palestinians identify with the terrorist and aspire to emulate her.

(full article online)

Fatah glorifies bomb makers and shooters - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Senior Palestinian news editor: Jews control Washington


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans gathered to demonstrate to urge the lifting of sanctions on Gaza on Sunday, and Gaza youth groups will do the same on Monday.

But they aren't saying a word about Israel.

The sanctions that they are referring to are those by the Palestinian Authority to limit fuel, electricity, healthcare, and environmental issues like sewage treatment.

(full article online)

Groups rally to lift sanctions on Gaza. Palestinian Authority sanctions! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Always with the cheap threats. I think the insanity of the US showering Arabs-Moslems with unending boat loads of welfare dollars needs to stop. 

The charade that the Arabs-Moslems occupying the West Bank and Gaza will ever accept a Jewish State has gone on long enough. 

*Hamas threatens ‘intifada’ over US moves on Jerusalem*


Hamas threatens ‘intifada’ over US moves on Jerusalem

The Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas which controls Gaza called Saturday for a new “intifada” if Washington recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel or moves its embassy to the disputed city.

Reports in Washington have suggested US President Donald Trump may on Monday fulfil a campaign pledge on the American embassy, which like all other foreign missions is currently located in the coastal city of Tel Aviv.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prince Salman's peace plan - another case of Palestinian rejectionism that the world accepts as normal ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.


And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.


While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.

(full article online)

Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Prince Salman's peace plan - another case of Palestinian rejectionism that the world accepts as normal ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


The plan sucks. Nobody would agree to that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.
> 
> 
> And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.
> 
> 
> While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities


Eight five percent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.

The janitor is more popular.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.
> 
> 
> And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.
> 
> 
> While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities
> 
> 
> 
> Eight five percent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.
> 
> The janitor is more popular.
Click to expand...


Whom do they want instead?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.
> 
> 
> And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.
> 
> 
> While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities
> 
> 
> 
> Eight five percent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.
> 
> The janitor is more popular.
Click to expand...


The janitor has an interest in his share of the UNRWA welfare fraud. 

Arabs-Moslems a whiners and complainers but they're not about to give up those infidel welfare dollars.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.
> 
> 
> And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.
> 
> 
> While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities
> 
> 
> 
> Eight five percent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.
> 
> The janitor is more popular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whom do they want instead?
Click to expand...

Here is one. *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*

**
*Or*

*Haidar Eid 

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.
> 
> 
> And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.
> 
> 
> While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities
> 
> 
> 
> Eight five percent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.
> 
> The janitor is more popular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whom do they want instead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is one. *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> **
> *Or*
> 
> *Haidar Eid *
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Are those the guys You would like the Arabs to choose, or do they actually vote for them?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PFLP, like Hamas and other Palestinian groups, makes no secret of its goal to "liberate Palestine, from the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea." All should be commended for their honesty. If anyone has any doubts, their plan means the total destruction of Israel. Thus, as chairman of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas cannot say that he represents the entire organization. He has no leverage with the PFLP, DFLP and the remaining terror groups operating under the umbrella of his PLO.
> 
> 
> And now we come to the million dollar question: Does Abbas really represent all of Fatah? The answer is simple and clear: No. Over the past few decades, Fatah has witnessed sharp divisions and disputes, resulting in a number of splinter groups that broke away and are now openly challenging Abbas's leadership and policies.
> 
> 
> While Abbas is making noises about a peace process, his own Fatah faction is inciting violence and calling for the destruction of Israel. While Abbas is talking about his interest in achieving a two-state solution, his partners in the PLO, including the PFLP and DFLP, are openly calling for the destruction of Israel and advocating an armed struggle. While Abbas is claiming that he is the legitimate president of the Palestinians, many Palestinians, including senior officials in his Fatah faction, are legitimately stating he has no mandate from his people to sign any agreement with Israel.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: More Missed Opportunities
> 
> 
> 
> Eight five percent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.
> 
> The janitor is more popular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whom do they want instead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is one. *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> **
> *Or*
> 
> *Haidar Eid *
> 
> **
Click to expand...


They're no different than what Hamas and the PA already have.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: New Palestinian Curriculum Praises ‘Martyrdom,’ Significantly ‘More Radical’ Than Before


----------



## Sixties Fan

The message is not overly subtle; the palestinians live in poverty, in shacks in densely populated areas, while the Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria on the other side of the security barrier live the good life.

If only this reflected the reality on the ground. While some palestinians live in densely populated neighborhoods in small houses (in refugee camps, which are deliberately kept in existence as a demographic weapon to ultimately destroy Israel), most residents of Judea and Samaria live in modest-size houses. Then there’s the fact that some palestinians live in houses like this:













(full article online)

Truth is Not a Luxury


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Living-with-the-Palestinian-No-517000


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Solidarity or The Illusion of Truth? Nakba Day at the UN


----------



## Sixties Fan

In order to buttress my certainty that the Palestinian leaders have violated their obligation to change the charter, I hereby offer a *$1,000,000 Wells Fargo check* to the first person who presents a validly voted written PNC resolution with the twelve (12) specifically annulled charter clauses and the new language of the sixteen (16) clauses which were allegedly partially annulled in Arafat's January 1998 letter to President Clinton.

It never happened.

(full article online)

The PLO Charter change never happened


----------



## Sixties Fan

PLO Washington office cancels Christmas reception


----------



## Sixties Fan

[All through 1948, Jews were expelled from their homes and lands in the Mandate for Palestine.  The idea continues with today's generation of Arabs.  Expel the Jews.
1967, Israel gets back Judea and Samaria.  Plus Gaza.  Number of Arabs expelled?  Zero.  ]

Hebrew U Arab Students Call to Expel Zionists from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 19 Kislev 5778 – December 7, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

8 Times Linda Sarsour Showed Her "Progressive" Values


----------



## Sixties Fan

The premise that the prosecution of terrorists, including unfortunately many minors who commit violent crimes (murder and attempted murder), offends American values and is an abuse of human rights is perverse. The arrest and prosecution of violent offenders, including terrorists, is a foundation of the rule of law and human rights. What contributes to human rights abuse and the degradation of moral values is the promotion of impunity by HRW and Van Esveld for Palestinian terrorists, and his erasing the systematic exploitation of Palestinian minors by Palestinian terror groups to commit violent crimes, the culture of incitement and antisemitism promoted by the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian terror groups and dircongressected at children from the time they are born, and the glorification of and financial rewards to those that act on such incitement.

(full article online)

Human Rights Watch Op-ed Repeats False and Distorted Claims on Palestinian Minors to Support Proposed BDS Legislation


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The premise that the prosecution of terrorists, including unfortunately many minors who commit violent crimes (murder and attempted murder), offends American values and is an abuse of human rights is perverse. The arrest and prosecution of violent offenders, including terrorists, is a foundation of the rule of law and human rights. What contributes to human rights abuse and the degradation of moral values is the promotion of impunity by HRW and Van Esveld for Palestinian terrorists, and his erasing the systematic exploitation of Palestinian minors by Palestinian terror groups to commit violent crimes, the culture of incitement and antisemitism promoted by the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian terror groups and dircongressected at children from the time they are born, and the glorification of and financial rewards to those that act on such incitement.
> (full article online)
> 
> Human Rights Watch Op-ed Repeats False and Distorted Claims on Palestinian Minors to Support Proposed BDS Legislation


Says an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The premise that the prosecution of terrorists, including unfortunately many minors who commit violent crimes (murder and attempted murder), offends American values and is an abuse of human rights is perverse. The arrest and prosecution of violent offenders, including terrorists, is a foundation of the rule of law and human rights. What contributes to human rights abuse and the degradation of moral values is the promotion of impunity by HRW and Van Esveld for Palestinian terrorists, and his erasing the systematic exploitation of Palestinian minors by Palestinian terror groups to commit violent crimes, the culture of incitement and antisemitism promoted by the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian terror groups and dircongressected at children from the time they are born, and the glorification of and financial rewards to those that act on such incitement.
> (full article online)
> 
> Human Rights Watch Op-ed Repeats False and Distorted Claims on Palestinian Minors to Support Proposed BDS Legislation
> 
> 
> 
> Says an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Be Warned: This Blood Is On Your Hands. | HuffPost


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Hamas starts it, but it is always Israel's fault ]


Hamas on Thursday had called for a new intifada against Israel, and on Friday urged Palestinians to confront soldiers and settlers. Its leader Ismail Haniyeh on Friday praised the “blessed intifada,” urged the liberation of Jerusalem, and made plain the group was seeking to intensify violence against Israel

(full article online)

After urging intifada, Hamas blames Israel for any escalation as 2 killed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Although Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh has enthusiastically described the Palestinians’ violent protests against US President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital as a “blessed intifada,” what has actually been taking place on the ground in the territories is nothing like the outbreak of the first intifada 30 years ago. It also does not remotely resemble the first days of the second intifada, in the wake of then-opposition leader Ariel Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount in September 2000.

At most, the two days of protests might be called “intifada lite,” and even that would be a bit of an exaggeration. Only a few thousand people have taken to the streets in the West Bank and Gaza.

(full article online)

To date, Palestinians’ Jerusalem protests are a case of ‘intifada lite’


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The rioters knew that security forces in the field would not employ riot dispersal tactics against an ambulance, and they used it to harm the forces while shielding themselves,” the army said in a statement.

Photographs released by the military showed Palestinians on at least two occasions throwing rocks while standing behind an ambulance. The Times of Israel could not independently verify where and when the pictures were taken.

(full article online)

IDF accuses Palestinians of using ambulance as shield for rock throwing


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians are about peace?  About creating their own State?
Then why this total lack of respect for everything which is part of Jewish History? ]

Palestinians to make play for Dead Sea scrolls at UNESCO – Israel Hayom


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Located, Neutralized New Terror Tunnel Crossing into Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 22 Kislev 5778 – December 10, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

In September, 2015, Abbas hailed Palestinian rioters on the Temple Mount, saying any blood spilled in “defense” of the holy site was “pure.” 

The following month, Abbas gave a speech justifying violence related to the Temple Mount, including the murder of Israelis, as a legitimate ‘defense’ of al-Aqsa.

In 2016, he praised as a “martyr” a young Palestinian woman who attempted to kill an Israeli soldier in a car ramming attack, writing “We see in her a martyr who watered the pure earth of Palestine with her blood,”

In July 2017, he encouraged ongoing violent rioting over al-Aqsa, even after Israelis removed controversial metal detectors from the Temple Mount which were installed following a deadly terror attack on the compound.

Bottom line: The Economist’s claim that the Palestinian President has “rejected violence” since 2005 fails to pass even the most minimum critical scrutiny. 

(full article online)

Economist: Abbas has “rejected violence” since 2005


----------



## Sixties Fan

"More journalists than protesters..." — Björn Stritzel, German journalist.


Protests against Israel and the US are not uncommon on the streets of Ramallah, Hebron and Bethlehem. But for the "war correspondents," there is nothing more exciting than standing behind burning tires and stone throwers and reporting from the heart of the "clashes." Such scenes make the journalists look as if they are in the middle of a battlefield and are risking their lives to bring the story home to their viewers. They might even receive an award for their "courageous" reporting from danger zones!


Jerusalem is tense, and has long been so, because the Palestinians have not yet managed to come to terms with Israel's right to exist. That is the real story. The Palestinians rage and rage for only one reason: because Israel exists. Put that in a story and publish it.

(full article online)

Newsflash: Jerusalem Not on Fire!


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## Sixties Fan

[ Muslim thinking, Palestinian thinking ]

Several years ago, when first in the United States on a teaching scholarship, one issue leapt out. A man asked an innocent enough question: Where I was from? I told him; then, as a courtesy, asked him the same question.

"I am a Muslim," he smiled.

Thinking that perhaps he had not understood the question -- he sounded American or English -- I asked if he was from the United States.

"I am not American," he said again; "I am a Muslim."

I subsequently learned that he was an Islamist, a preacher of strict religious teachings, and that many of the people to whom he preached held the same views.

In Iran and Syria, where I was born and raised, I had never before heard this answer.

Later, while speaking in Europe, these notions kept resurfacing. Radical Islamists, particularly in Britain and France, proclaim themselves first to be Muslim. Even when they speak with English, French or American accents, they do not name their countries -- even to me, someone from the Middle East.

Their response signals a reason for concern in the countries they live in now. To begin with, for Islamists, non-Muslim land is different from Muslim land. Many can never identify themselves with a Western land -- or with a flag or nationality -- even though they may have been born in that land and their families may have lived there for generations.

This view is far different from that in the Middle East.

One day, I asked an American imam why he did not identify himself as an American. Millions of people, I said to him, dream of coming to the US and becoming Americans; why would anyone want to reject this?

He quoted said one of the founding fathers of Islamist thoughts, Sayyid Qutb:

"The homeland of the Muslim, in which he lives and which he defends, is not a piece of land; the nationality of the Muslim, by which he is identified, is not the nationality determined by a government; the family of the Muslim, in which he finds solace and which he defends, is not blood relationships; the flag of the Muslim, which he honors and under which he is martyred, is not the flag of a country; and the victory of the Muslim, which he celebrates and for which he is thankful to God, is not a military victory."

"I am not American," said the Islamist; "I am Muslim"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dozens of activists gathered in front of the Erez crossing in the northern Gaza Strip on Monday morning to prevent a Bahraini Interfaith delegation from entering from the Israeli side, Ma’an reported. The activists torched tires and chanted slogans condemning normalization with Israel.

One activist said his group would not allow the delegation to enter and that they would treat them as enemies, while another said he had brought in rotten eggs to throw at the delegation members.

(full article online)

Gaza Protesters Gather to Stop Bahraini Peace Tour with Rotten Eggs | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | JNi.Media | 23 Kislev 5778 – December 11, 2017 | JewishPress.com


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian who vandalized Amsterdam kosher eatery says it’s not about Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Update]

Palestinian Authority is so anti-peace that they are arranging protests against the Bahrainis.

The Palestinian Ministry of Education and Higher Education announced its "absolute refusal to receive the Bahraini delegation coming from the Zionist entity in any of its schools and institutions of higher education affiliated with it" and instructed all schools under its control as well as UNRWA schools to snub any attempts by the Bahraini group to meet with them.

Palestinians gathered at the Erez crossing into Gaza, prepared to throw shoes and eggs at the delegation after rumors that they were going to visit there.

This was all reported approvingly at the Fatah Facebook page.













Reports also indicate that the delegation was blocked from visiting the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem by its guards.

This is how Palestinians treat fellow Arabs who make it clear that that they simply want peace.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority instructs schools not to meet with pro-peace Bahrainis  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Security footage shows ambulance being used to transport Arabs to locations of riots while pretending they are injured.

(video online)

Red Crescent drives Arab rioters


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## Sixties Fan

"The subject of Wadi Ara certainly deserves to be put on the agenda. Those who saw the attack on the Temple Mount and the funeral afterwards in which thousands participated of the three young men from the Jabarin clan who murdered two Druze policemen; those who heard the sermons in the mosques, those who saw the violent demonstration about three days agoin Wadi Ara, when you add to this the terrorist who carried out the attack in central Tel Aviv and then murdered the taxi driver and you see the trend there, you can't ignore the fact that there are simply people who do not want to be part of the State of Israel," Liberman said.






Israeli Arab child holding sign during protest against Trump decision to recognize Jerusalem capital of Israel
צילום: Flash 90

He added, "They're trying to hurt us from the inside; we're not talking about isolated people, we are not talking about stray misfits, and when you take all the quotes and all the speeches of the leadership here in the Knesset, all these things pass quietly for some reason."

(full article online)

'In Wadi Ara they're trying to harm us from within'


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## Sixties Fan

PA, Hamas miss reconciliation deadline


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## Sixties Fan

[ Should their wish be granted? ]

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a terrorist organization that is a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), on Sunday called on the Palestinian Authority (PA) and its chairman Mahmoud Abbas to renounce the Oslo Accords, stop the security coordination with Israel and revoke the recognition of Israel, in response to U.S President Donald Trump’s announcement recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

(full article online)

PFLP: Cancel the Oslo Accords


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## Sixties Fan

You can read a bit more detail about the history of this craft from the webpage of Armenian Ceramics in Jerusalem, whose Balian family were the original partners of the Karakashians mentioned above.

 The Balian Family of Jerusalem  has been producing exclusive hand painted ceramic tiles and pottery since 1922.
This makes us one of the oldest-if not the oldest- business in existence in Jerusalem.
The studio is currently being run by Neshan Balian Jr, whose grandfather Neshan Balian Sr came to Jerusalem in 1919 from Kutahya, Turkey.
Neshan Balian Sr. and Megerditch Karakashian- a master potter and artist respectively- were brought over to Jerusalem by the British governmentand David Ohanessian , who was a ceramist, linguist and head of the Kutahya Ceramic Association, to renovate the ceramic tiles of The Dome of the Rock.
Before the arrival of the Three Armenian families to then Palestine, the production of decorative ceramic tiles and pottery in this region did not exist at all. It was Neshan Balian with his partner the Megerditch Karakashian and David Ohanessian,, who established this unique form of world famous art known presently as the Armenian Pottery of Jerusalem. 

 So there is no "Palestinian" tradition of decorative ceramics. It is an Armenian tradition.

(full article online)

An age-old Palestinian craft that goes all the way back to 1922 - when the British imported Armenian families ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

In a Facebook post, Bashi blamed criticism of her book on what she called “self-proclaimed powerful neighborhoods of New York City.” That’s pretty obvious code language for “the Jews.”

But it’s also important to pay close attention to the explanations that Bashi and her supporters have presented in several recent interviews. “Intifada is part of Palestinian life, to resist occupation,” she told JTA. In an interview with Haaretz, Bashi elaborated, “Intifada is an aspect of Palestinian life just as Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus Christ.” An Israeli Arab educator named Areej Masarwa added, “It’s part of Palestinian identity.”

Exactly right. Mass violence against Jews is indeed a central part of “Palestinian” identity. And that tells us a lot about Palestinian identity.

(full article online)

‘P is for Palestine’ author got one thing right


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## Sixties Fan

[ Take away the money, the terrible curriculums, and endless incitement, and maybe these men, women and children will someday find out what having a normal life without bombs and weapons is all about.  And maybe someday these women will not have to hide their faces ever again ]

Dozens of female members of the Islamic Jihad’s Al-Quds Brigades marched through Gaza this week in protest of US President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

Accompanied by hundreds of burqa-clad women, the armed fighters, who are part of the military wing of the terrorist group, burned the US flag and vowed to “redeem Palestine with our souls and our blood,” according to video footage posted by Lebanese U-News on Monday and translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

(full article online)

Female terrorists in Gaza threaten intifada after Trump announcement


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## Sixties Fan

The blast comes amid increased tensions in Gaza. On Sunday, the military destroyed an attack tunnel belonging to the Hamas terror group, and there has been an increase in rocket fire against Israeli communities by terrorist groups, along with violent protests along the security fence against US President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital last week.

Shortly after midnight on Tuesday, Israeli forces attacked Hamas targets in the northern Gaza Strip after Palestinians fired a rocket toward the southern city of Ashkelon, the army said. The rocket was intercepted by an Iron Dome anti-missile battery.

After the rocket fire, Israeli aircraft and a tank attacked Hamas sites in the Strip, the army said, noting that it holds the terror group, which runs Gaza, responsible for all rocket attacks.

(full article online)

Two Islamic Jihad terrorists killed on ‘jihadi mission’ in Gaza


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Mr. Saeb Erekat, a senior Palestinian Arab diplomat, is now struggling to stop Mr. Trump from moving the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Yerushalayim. I must ask Mr. Erekat some questions because he has asserted that his people have lived in our Eretz Yisrael for thousands of years. 

1. When the Romans invaded Judea/Palestine in the first century CE, did your Palestinian, non-Jewish - there were no Muslims then - ancestors a) fight alongside the Jews?, b) fight alongside the Romans?, or c) remain non-combatants like today's Quakers? 

2. Since (as you assert) your ancestors were present in Palestine at the time of the Roman invasion, any choice above would have been significant. Why is it that not a single historian of that period mentions the choice that your ancestors made from the three alternatives above? 

3. Do you share the belief that, until recently, the Jews never held sovereignty or even lived in Palestine? 

If you are correct, how was it that Roman sculptors created a fictitious, Jewish-focused relief and chiseled it into the Arch of Titus? It is not credible that 1900 years ago, some early Italian Zionists paid those Roman sculptors to create a historical fraud and received permission to have it stand in Rome. How was it that no Roman writer mocked this historical fraud or mentioned it during the ensuing centuries?

Do you believe that an element in that relief, a 7-branched candelabrum (we call it a menorah), a relic from our ancient Temple, is really a lighting fixture from some pre-Muhammad Palestinian tavern? If your non-Jewish ancestors were in Palestine at that time, they probably frequented taverns or beer halls at night after work to drink liquor and eat ham sandwiches on pita. Obviously, they would have needed illumination there. We both agree that in the first century CE Muhammad had not yet been born so he had not yet provided humanity with his revelation which outlawed alcohol, pork, graven images, etc. 

4. If Yassir Arafat, who was born and raised in Egypt, can be a Palestinian, why can't David Ben Gurion, who was born and raised in Poland, be a Palestinian (i.e., an Israeli)? 

5. Do you believe both a) the Holocaust did not occur, and b) Israeli soldiers behave like Nazis? Well, if the Holocaust never occurred, then Nazis must have been good guys like the Brits and the Americans, smiling as they distributed candy to children. 

(full article online)

The Arch of Titus and Saeb Erekat


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## Sixties Fan

The Shin Bet said the alleged ringleader of the terror cell was Mu’ad Ashtiyah, a 26-year-old Palestinian from the village of Tell, near Nablus in the northern West Bank.






From left, Ahmad Ramadan, Mu’ad Ashtiyah and Mahmoud Ramadan, three Palestinians suspected of planning a kidnapping for the Hamas terrorist group, which was foiled by the Shin Bet security service in October 2017. (Shin Bet)

He recruited cousins Mahmoud and Ahmad Ramadan, both 19 and also of Tell, to assist him in the plot, the security service said.

According to the Shin Bet, the three men planned to “kidnap a soldier or settler from one of the bus stations at a central junction in Samaria” — the biblical term for the northern West Bank.

(full article online)

Israel foils Hamas kidnapping plot planned for Hanukkah


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## Sixties Fan

Abbas called upon the countries of the world to re-assess their recognition of the State of Israel "as long as it insists on violating the rules of international law and breaches all international resolutions since its establishment in 1948."

Yes, he is insisting that the world community gives recognition to the fake state of "Palestine." But he is simultaneously calling on the world to withdraw recognition of Israel!


And Abbas is pointedly not only talking about "occupation." He is saying that Israel is illegitimate to begin with, violating international law since it was reborn.
If he wanted peace with Israel he could have it. If he wanted two states side by side, it could have been done at least four times since 2000. 
But Palestinians don't want two states. They are still going by Arafat's playbook of taking what they can get and then using that to gain the rest of what they teach their children is "Palestine." (Of course, not the parts of Palestine that lie outside the boundaries of the British Mandate in today's Jordan and Lebanon and Syria...)

(full article online)

Abbas calls on countries to withdraw their recognition of Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Abbas' advisor incites religious war - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

[ "I demand this....I demand that.....why nobody listens to me....? ]
[Someone needs to call the Palestinians on their " The Oslo Accord is Dead" mantra ]

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday told the summit of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) that because of Israeli violations in the “occupied territories” and Israeli disregard for international law, his side is no longer bound by the 1994 Oslo agreements. And so, instead of waiting for Israel to complete its part in implementing Oslo, Abbas urged the full support of the OIC members for the PA’s quest to become a full member of the United Nations.

(full article online)

Abbas Defies Oslo Agreements, Demands Full UN membership | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 26 Kislev 5778 – December 13, 2017 | JewishPress.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ "Death to Israel"......wait, I have a pain....quick get me to an Israeli Hospital.....]

Despite his accusations of Israeli “genocide”, the senior PA official nevertheless checked in to an Israeli hospital recently, and was spotted Monday night as he was taken in for a CT scan.

In a report by _Channel 20_, Erekat was seen in Petah Tikva’s Beilinson Medical Center. Hospital officials confirmed that Erekat had checked into the hospital for treatment.

(full article online)

PA's anti-Israel spokesman seeks treatment in Israeli hospital


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## Sixties Fan

[ The "I hate you, really hate you"....."but I will take the money" syndrome ]

"In all our conferences and decisions, we have agreed that Jerusalem is a red line, and now we must translate all this into actions that force the United States to retreat from this crime and prevent other countries from taking similar steps.," Abbas said.

He added, "When the United States announced the closure of the PLO headquarters in Washington, we announced that we would not deal with the US consul. America must feel that any decision it takes is not easy and we can and will force it to pay the price."

Like a two-bit thug, Abbas then repeated his go-to threat: "If the State of Palestine does not have its capital in Jerusalem on the borders of June 4, 1967, there will be no peace in the region, the territories or the world, and they must choose [which it is going to be.]

What's wrong with this picture?

Last year, under the Obama administration, the Palestinian prime minister thanked the European countries for giving so much money to his government, but falsely claimed that the US didn't give them a dime. In fact, the
US gave $357 million to the PA, and $355 million more to UNRWA. The US is by far the biggest donor to the PA.

And the PA treats the US like dirt.

(full article online)

Abbas insults and threatens the US - but takes hundreds of millions of US dollars ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Pollard’s presentation of Barghouti as “a member of the Palestinian parliament” is of course misleading because not only has the Palestinian Legislative Council not functioned for over a decade since the Hamas coup in the Gaza Strip, but – like the rest of the PLC members – Barghouti’s term of office ended years ago.

Barghouti opened with a spurious reference to ‘international law’ that went completely unquestioned and went on – likewise unchallenged – to promote the ‘apartheid’ smear.

Barghouti: “It’s very significant but it’s very reckless – from a president who seems to be risk reckless on many issues. And it means the United States is officially participating in violating international law. And it is showing such a level of bias to Israel that it is killing any future role of the United States in any future peace process. As a matter of fact Mr Trump is aborting his own peace initiative before it is born. And the worst thing is that he’s making a dangerous move that will definitely destabilise the region and will consolidate, or help consolidate, a system of apartheid that Palestinians suffer from.”

Pollard: “Sorry. Let me just ask you about immediately what you think the consequences will be. First off, in the street – do you think that there is a risk of a violent response to this in terms of demonstrations and attacks?”

Barghouti: “No. From the Palestinian perspective we don’t want violence. We have opted for non-violent resistance but for mass popular non-violent resistance which was very successful last July in Jerusalem and we managed to defeat Netanyahu and force him to remove all obstacles he put in front of the people in Al Aqsa Mosque.”

Pollard failed to challenge Barghouti’s false claims of ‘non-violent resistance’ or to inform listeners of the incitement to violence from Hamas, the PA and Fatah even before the US announcement had been made. He also failed to clarify to listeners that his interviewee’s mention of “last July in Jerusalem” in fact refers to events triggered by a violent terror attack near Temple Mount or that those so-called “obstacles” were metal detectors and security cameras.

(full article online)

Inaccuracies and distortions go unchallenged on BBC WS ‘Newsday’ – part one


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## Sixties Fan

Inaccuracies and distortions go unchallenged on BBC WS ‘Newsday’ – part two


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## Sixties Fan

[Now, why would the PA say something like that and deliberately go against what the Quran says?  ]



*PA TV: There is "no documentation" the Western Wall was ever a "place of worship" for Jews before the Balfour Declaration was issued in 1917
l *
*Abbas' advisor: "[The Jews have] no connection to this land, not religiously or historically"*
 l
*PA minister: "Israel's claims regarding the finding of Jewish antiquities are a clear falsification of the city [of Jerusalem's] history"*

*PLO official: Jewish historical ties to the land are "a Zionist invention;"* 
*Jews are in "Palestine" only because "Europe wanted to get rid of them"
*
(full article online)

PA: Jews have no history in "Palestine" - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

[ It feels like between 1948 and 1967 for some Christians ]

Christmas celebrations in Nazareth — Jesus’ childhood hometown, according to Christian belief — have been canceled to protest the US president’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

The city council announced Thursday that Mayor Ali Salam, a Muslim, had ordered the axing of all planned artistic events, including a festival and large Christmas market.

(full article online)

Nazareth cancels Christmas celebrations to protest US move on Jerusalem


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ The "I hate you, really hate you"....."but I will take the money" syndrome ]
> 
> "In all our conferences and decisions, we have agreed that Jerusalem is a red line, and now we must translate all this into actions that force the United States to retreat from this crime and prevent other countries from taking similar steps.," Abbas said.
> 
> He added, "When the United States announced the closure of the PLO headquarters in Washington, we announced that we would not deal with the US consul. America must feel that any decision it takes is not easy and we can and will force it to pay the price."
> 
> Like a two-bit thug, Abbas then repeated his go-to threat: "If the State of Palestine does not have its capital in Jerusalem on the borders of June 4, 1967, there will be no peace in the region, the territories or the world, and they must choose [which it is going to be.]
> 
> What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> Last year, under the Obama administration, the Palestinian prime minister thanked the European countries for giving so much money to his government, but falsely claimed that the US didn't give them a dime. In fact, the
> US gave $357 million to the PA, and $355 million more to UNRWA. The US is by far the biggest donor to the PA.
> 
> And the PA treats the US like dirt.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas insults and threatens the US - but takes hundreds of millions of US dollars ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> In fact, the US gave $357 million to the PA, and $355 million more to UNRWA. The US is by far the biggest donor to the PA.


If not for Israel, the Palestinians would not need a penny of that.

Israel is an expensive place.


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## Sixties Fan

The decision to boycott a visit later this month by US Vice President Mike Pence comes in the context of absorbing the anger of the street. Abbas and his Palestinian Authority have also made it clear that they no longer consider the Trump administration an "honest" and "unbiased" broker in any peace process with Israel. As such, the Palestinian Authority leadership announced that it will reject any peace plan proposed by the Trump administration, even if the plan gains the support of Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt.


The Palestinian strategy now is to work hard to thwart any peace plan coming from the Trump administration. The Palestinians are convinced that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and other Arab leaders are cooking up a new "conspiracy" behind their backs -- with the aim of "liquidating" the Palestinian cause by imposing an acceptable solution on them. This, of course, has nothing to do with Trump's announcement on Jerusalem. This has been the Palestinian position even before Trump made his announcement, and it is unlikely to change after.


The question now is: How will the Arab regimes respond to this latest charge of fratricide leveled against them by their Palestinian brothers?


(full article online)

Palestinians: Arab Rulers are Traitors, Cowards


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## Sixties Fan

On December 14, 2017, Hamas commemorates its 30th anniversary.

But what is Hamas really commemorating? Here are 30 facts to remind you:

1. Hamas takes its name from an acronym that means “Islamic Resistance Movement” in Arabic.

2. Hamas refuses to recognize the State of Israel’s right to exist as an independent, sovereign nation, and is totally opposed to any agreement or arrangement that would recognize its right to exist. At the beginning of its 1988 charter there is a quotation attributed to Hassan Al-Bana, the Muslim Brotherhood’s founder, that “Israel will arise and continue to exist until Islam wipes it out, as it wiped out what went before.” (Contrary to some misleading news stories, Hamas’s 2017 “Political Document” does not replace the 1988 charter.)

3. Hamas is committed to jihad. Its charter stresses the importance of jihad (holy war) as the main means for the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) to achieve its goals: An uncompromising jihad must be waged against Israel. Jihad is the personal duty of every Muslim. (Again, contrary to some misleading news stories, Hamas’s 2017 “Political Document” does not replace the 1988 charter.)

4. Hamas is an anti-Semitic organization. According to its charter, the Jewish people have only negative traits and are presented as planning to take over the world. The charter uses myths taken from classical European and Islamic-based anti-Semitism. (Again, contrary to some misleading news stories, Hamas’s 2017 “Political Document” does not replace the 1988 charter.)

5. The Hamas Charter includes anti-Semitic myths taken from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (mentioned in Article 32) regarding Jewish control of the media, the film industry and education (Articles 17 and 22). The myths are constantly repeated to represent the Jews as responsible for the French and Russian revolutions and for all world and local wars: “No war takes place anywhere without the Jews’ being behind it” (Article 22). The charter demonizes the Jews and describes them as brutally behaving like Nazis toward women and children (Article 29). (Again, contrary to some misleading news stories, Hamas’s 2017 “Political Document” does not replace the 1988 charter.)

6. Hamas is the local Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which briefly took control of the Egyptian government, and  which promotes extremism and terror activities throughout the Muslim world.


(full article online)

Hamas: 30 Facts For 30 Years | HonestReporting


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## Sixties Fan

Note the vile antisemitism you just heard.

“I don’t want to discuss religion or history because *they are really excellent in faking and counterfeiting history and religion.* But if we read *the Torah* it says that the Canaanites were there before the time of our prophet Abraham and their [Canaanite] existence continued since that time, this is in the Torah itself. But if *they would like to fake this history, they are really masters in this and it is mentioned in the holy Quran they fabricate truth and they try to do that and they believe in that* but we have been there in this location for thousands of years.”

The “they” he refers to is, of course, the Jewish people. I guess speaking in Arabic makes poppy sloppy.

Note also how Abbas claims his people come from the ancient Canaanites 5,000 years ago, and even tries to use the Torah to show they therefore preceded the Jews. This is nothing new from the palestinians – as I have blogged before they have a number of contradictory versions:

(full article online)

MUST WATCH: Mahmoud Abbas’ Vile Antisemitism And Historical Negationism


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## Sixties Fan

The poll, conducted among 1,270 adults in the West Bank and Gaza Strip last week, shows widespread hostility among Palestinians toward the Sunni Arab states as well as Abbas personally.

More than 70 percent of respondents believed that the PA president — who has outstayed his term in office by almost nine years — should resign. Amid emphatic rejection of any American peace initiatives, 72 percent of respondents said they believed Sunni Arab states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia would fall into line behind Trump, and that Abbas would eventually resume contacts with the US.

Overall, the poll painted a bleak picture of Palestinian opinion. “More than three quarters believe that Palestine is no longer the Arabs first cause,” a commentary accompanying the poll observed. “Indeed, more than 70% believe that despite the continuation of Israeli occupation, an alliance already exists between Sunni Arab states and Israel.”

(full article online)

Abbas’ Fiery Rhetoric Toward US and Israel May Be Unconvincing to Palestinian Public, New Poll Suggests


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## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, the _Guardian _did what if often does: they published an op-ed designed to undermine Israel’s fundamental right to exist.  The op-ed was written by Karma Nabulsi, an Oxford academic and former* PLO *representative who, unsurprisingly, rejects a Jewish state within any borders.

The piece is putatively about the US recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, but ultimately simply uses the news as a springboard to a broader point she’s made previously at the _Guardian_ and elsewhere: that Israel is a ‘settler colonial entity’ that has ethnically cleansed ‘Palestine’ and has no political or moral legitimacy.

(full article online)

Guardian trots out Karma Nabulsi to attack Israel’s right to exist


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## Sixties Fan

Others say there were _four_, not three, and the difference points to something significant:

On Wednesday night, _*four*_ rockets were fired from Gaza at southern Israel. Two of them were intercepted by the Iron Dome missile defense system, a third struck an open field and the fourth fell short of the border and hit a school in the Gaza Strip, according to Israeli officials... [*Times of Israel*, today]

So that's five Arab-on-Israeli attack rockets intercepted in mid-air and brought down by the amazing, life-saving, defensive Iron Dome system so far this week. 

As far as we know, neither Haaretz nor any non-Israeli news source has drawn attention to how _yet-another *Fell Short *rocket_ dispatched on its murderous path towards Israel failed to cross the border and fell onto the heads of hapless Gazan Palestinian Arabs.

This time it struck a school according to Israeli assessments:
Beit Hanoun’s *Ghazi al-Shawa* public school, according to Maj. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, the Defense Ministry liaison with the Palestinians.Given the late-night hour, it was probably empty of students. But who really knows? And just imagine the reaction if it was an Israeli attack that view up a Gazan (almost certainly meaning UNRWA) school. Does anyone think The Guardian (which has a documented interest in Gazan schools being attacked) will give its readers any insight into this latest school bombing.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 14-Dec-17: Understanding what happened after Wednesday night's Gazan rocket attack on Israel


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The decision to boycott a visit later this month by US Vice President Mike Pence comes in the context of absorbing the anger of the street. Abbas and his Palestinian Authority have also made it clear that they no longer consider the Trump administration an "honest" and "unbiased" broker in any peace process with Israel. As such, the Palestinian Authority leadership announced that it will reject any peace plan proposed by the Trump administration, even if the plan gains the support of Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
> 
> 
> The Palestinian strategy now is to work hard to thwart any peace plan coming from the Trump administration. The Palestinians are convinced that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and other Arab leaders are cooking up a new "conspiracy" behind their backs -- with the aim of "liquidating" the Palestinian cause by imposing an acceptable solution on them. This, of course, has nothing to do with Trump's announcement on Jerusalem. This has been the Palestinian position even before Trump made his announcement, and it is unlikely to change after.
> 
> 
> The question now is: How will the Arab regimes respond to this latest charge of fratricide leveled against them by their Palestinian brothers?
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arab Rulers are Traitors, Cowards





Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas and his Palestinian Authority have also made it clear that they no longer consider the Trump administration an "honest" and "unbiased" broker in any peace process with Israel.


It only took them 25 years to figure that out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[   Ooooooooooops  ]

One of the rockets launched by terrorists in Gaza this evening fell short and landed inside Gaza, according to a YNet report.

The rocket hit an UNRWA school in Beit Hanoun, in northern Gaza, and damaged a classroom.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/un/gaza-rocket-hits-unrwa-school/2017/12/13/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, my.....]

Palestinian envoy draws heat for boasting he assaulted Israeli student in row over falafel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The terrorist group further stressed that it was continuing the path of liberation and the resistance in all its aspects until the last layer of historic Palestinian land is liberated, noting that it "bombed occupied Tel Aviv that was established on our occupied land in Jaffa."

The statement also called for an end to the Palestinian Authority’s security coordination with Israel and stressed that the "right of return" is a private and collective right that cannot be revoked by any party.

(full article online)

Hamas: We will liberate 'occupied Tel Aviv'


----------



## Sixties Fan

PLO Executive Member Saleh Rafat says it is a “Zionist invention” that Israel is the land of the Jewish patriarchs. Rather, all those living in the Land of Israel for thousands of years – including Muslims, Christians and Jews – belonged to the “Palestinian people,” he declares, despite the fact that Christianity was founded in the 1st century C.E. and Islam at the start of the 7th century.

Then he expands on his strange theory about why Jews were expelled from the Holy Land and later from European countries.

If you want to hear a creative distortion of history and the lies fed to the Arabs by the Palestinian Authority, this video is for you.

(vide video online)

WATCH: Jewish History in ‘Palestine’ is a ‘Zionist Invention,’ Says PLO Official


----------



## Sixties Fan

Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is a crime not only against “Palestine,” but against all of humanity, stated Mahmoud al-Habbash, PA Mahmoud Abbas’ adviser on Religious and Islamic Affairs and chairman of the Supreme Council for Sharia Justice.

In tune with the PA’s complete denial of the ancient and profound Jewish ties to the holy city, al-Habbash claims that Jerusalem has belonged to the Palestinians for 5,000 years and will remain Palestinian “until Allah will inherit the earth and whoever is on it.”

Making claims on Jerusalem going back 5,000 years would be laughable if not for the violence and terror provoked by al-Habbash’s statements. Trump is an enemy of Muslims and Christians throughout the world and his actions will “open the gates of hell,” he vows.

Watch the video for the full text of his outrageous speech.

(vide video online)

Jerusalem Has Belonged to the Palestinians for 5,000 years, Says Abbas Adviser


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sanaa is one of 300 Muslim volunteers for United Hatzalah and one of 320 women in the organization, but she is the only one who comes from both of these demographic groups. Her religious adherence has never proven to be an obstacle for her, and she is respected and loved by her fellow volunteers, especially those who work with her locally in the Umm-El Fahm and Shibli chapter – one of three all-Muslim groups in the organization to date. All the Muslim volunteers in the chapter and throughout the organization – just like their Jewish, Bedouin, Druze and Christian counterparts – provide emergency medical treatment to anyone who needs it in their vicinity regardless of ethnicity, gender or religion.

(full article online)

Religious Muslim Woman Spends Her Time Saving Lives in Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."

(full article online)

With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The terrorist group further stressed that it was continuing the path of liberation and the resistance in all its aspects until the last layer of historic Palestinian land is liberated, noting that it "bombed occupied Tel Aviv that was established on our occupied land in Jaffa."
> 
> The statement also called for an end to the Palestinian Authority’s security coordination with Israel and stressed that the "right of return" is a private and collective right that cannot be revoked by any party.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: We will liberate 'occupied Tel Aviv'


The Hamas terrorist organization declared on Wednesday that “Al-Quds [in its entirety] is the eternal capital of Palestine, not its eastern or western part, and is an Arabic Islamic city.”​
The first thing they do is play the terrorist card. Must be a propaganda site.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The terrorist group further stressed that it was continuing the path of liberation and the resistance in all its aspects until the last layer of historic Palestinian land is liberated, noting that it "bombed occupied Tel Aviv that was established on our occupied land in Jaffa."
> 
> The statement also called for an end to the Palestinian Authority’s security coordination with Israel and stressed that the "right of return" is a private and collective right that cannot be revoked by any party.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: We will liberate 'occupied Tel Aviv'
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas terrorist organization declared on Wednesday that “Al-Quds [in its entirety] is the eternal capital of Palestine, not its eastern or western part, and is an Arabic Islamic city.”​
> The first thing they do is play the terrorist card. Must be a propaganda site.
Click to expand...

Show us your knowledge of Arabic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> "Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town


It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.

But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.
> 
> But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?
Click to expand...

The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.

It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.

Be happy about that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“We believe the Trump administration is serious about bringing peace between Israelis and Arabs,” Saudi Foreign Minister Adel Al-Jubeir, a former ambassador to the US, told France 24 television late on Wednesday.

“They were working on ideas and were consulting with all parties, including Saudi Arabia, and they are incorporating the views represented to them by everybody. They have said they would need a little bit of time to put it together to present it.”
---------
This is not the narrative that the Palestinians want the world to think about the US and Trump.

(full article online)

Palestinians get really upset when Arab leaders don't fall into line ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.
> 
> But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.


Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.
> 
> But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
Click to expand...


That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed. 

Allah akbar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.
> 
> But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
Click to expand...

Not according to the UN.
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Egypt lose?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Their whole purpose in coming here is to disturb the residents," he explained. "For several weeks already, extreme leftist activists have brought shepherds from the Arab town of Hamam al-Maliah, and given them cameras to provoke us with. Today was especially bad - six herds surrounded the town, and the leftists encouraged them."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> With cameras and rocks: Arabs surround Jewish town
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.
> 
> But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
Click to expand...

They lost a war to Jews.

By doing so:

They lost Face.
They lost their Honor.

Those are the most important things for Muslims.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Is UNWRA paying for domestic damages caused by Hamas rockets? ]

Gaza rocket misses mark, damages local home


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a town. It is an illegal settlement.
> 
> But what can you expect from a propaganda rag?
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
Click to expand...

Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
Click to expand...

Keep believing that.
And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
All part of the armistice, still, right?
And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep believing that.
> And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
> All part of the armistice, still, right?
> And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?
Click to expand...

Holy deflection, Batman!


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep believing that.
> And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
> All part of the armistice, still, right?
> And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
Click to expand...

Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.

Look in the mirror for your deflections  

Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> 
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep believing that.
> And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
> All part of the armistice, still, right?
> And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.
> 
> Look in the mirror for your deflections
> 
> Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!
Click to expand...

Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep believing that.
> And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
> All part of the armistice, still, right?
> And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.
> 
> Look in the mirror for your deflections
> 
> Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.
Click to expand...

Here is where you are probably going wrong:
"The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."

Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.

Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?

I believe that there is a difference


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep believing that.
> And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
> All part of the armistice, still, right?
> And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.
> 
> Look in the mirror for your deflections
> 
> Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
Click to expand...

The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/pea...ptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep believing that.
> And the Muslims did not lose in 1956, 1967 or 1973 either.
> All part of the armistice, still, right?
> And the Muslims were all happy that, again, they did not destroy Israel and lost territory, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.
> 
> Look in the mirror for your deflections
> 
> Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;
> 
> https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension tin man.

First, the parties need to STOP fighting.  Then there is a truce.  Then an armistice.

From what you wrote, the UN "ordered them to stop the fighting and sign an armistice"

Reread what you wrote in your previous post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.
> 
> Look in the mirror for your deflections
> 
> Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;
> 
> https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reading comprehension tin man.
> 
> First, the parties need to STOP fighting.  Then there is a truce.  Then an armistice.
> 
> From what you wrote, the UN "ordered them to stop the fighting and sign an armistice"
> 
> Reread what you wrote in your previous post.
Click to expand...

The UN Security Council called for the armistice. Several truces were broken before the Security Council stepped in.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap tinman.  You are full of yourself, but not full of history at all.
> 
> Look in the mirror for your deflections
> 
> Israel strives, while the Muslim world cries.  Wahhhh!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;
> 
> https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reading comprehension tin man.
> 
> First, the parties need to STOP fighting.  Then there is a truce.  Then an armistice.
> 
> From what you wrote, the UN "ordered them to stop the fighting and sign an armistice"
> 
> Reread what you wrote in your previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN Security Council called for the armistice. Several truces were broken before the Security Council stepped in.
Click to expand...

Show me one source where it says that the UN called for the armistice.

Don't the parties have to agree to a truce and the armistice first?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response was a deflection. I just called you out on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;
> 
> https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reading comprehension tin man.
> 
> First, the parties need to STOP fighting.  Then there is a truce.  Then an armistice.
> 
> From what you wrote, the UN "ordered them to stop the fighting and sign an armistice"
> 
> Reread what you wrote in your previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN Security Council called for the armistice. Several truces were broken before the Security Council stepped in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me one source where it says that the UN called for the armistice.
> 
> Don't the parties have to agree to a truce and the armistice first?
Click to expand...

If that were the case, the Security Council would not need to demand one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> It is not talking either about how ALL the Jewish cities, villages and lands were taken over by Arabs who SETTLED on Jewish owned land.
> 
> Be happy about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda rag isn't even talking about how in 1948 ALL Jews were expelled from Judea and Samaria cities and villages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that happened in Israel's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was the war Israel won by delivering a humiliating defeat to the Arab-Moslem gee-had that failed.
> 
> Allah akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lost a war to Jews.
> 
> By doing so:
> 
> They lost Face.
> They lost their Honor.
> 
> Those are the most important things for Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not according to the UN. The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice. Nobody won or lost that war.
Click to expand...


I can see you're desperately trying to avoid the admission that you Arabs-Moslems were delivered a humiliating defeat. The war israel fought and won in 1948 was about the survival of the nascent state. The Arab-Moslem goal to destroy Israel was never realised. 

As we saw over the course of the next decades, you Arabs-Moslems tried and failed repeatedly for a hoped-for genocide that you couldn't accomplish against a better military.

Allah akbar.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
> 
> 
> 
> The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;
> 
> https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reading comprehension tin man.
> 
> First, the parties need to STOP fighting.  Then there is a truce.  Then an armistice.
> 
> From what you wrote, the UN "ordered them to stop the fighting and sign an armistice"
> 
> Reread what you wrote in your previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN Security Council called for the armistice. Several truces were broken before the Security Council stepped in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me one source where it says that the UN called for the armistice.
> 
> Don't the parties have to agree to a truce and the armistice first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that were the case, the Security Council would not need to demand one.
Click to expand...

You are using the word Demand.  It is the wrong word.
The UN can call for an armistice, can ask for one, but the parties do not have to listen to it if any one of them is intent of continuing the fight.

The word is Calling, not Demanding....which is exactly what I referred to above.

*Preamble*

The Parties to the present Agreement,

Responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948, calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, to negotiate an armistice;

Having decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;

The undersigned representatives of their respective Governments, having exchanged their full powers found to be in good and proper form, have agreed upon the following provisions:

(full article online)

Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (1949)


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is where you are probably going wrong:
> "The fighting ended by a UN Security Council resolution calling for an armistice."
> 
> Are you saying that the UN Security Council demanded a stop to the fighting and Then....the fighting ended.
> 
> Or.....the fighting ended....and then the UN got involved with the armistice?
> 
> I believe that there is a difference
> 
> 
> 
> The Parties to the present Agreement, responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948 calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine to negotiate an Armistice; having, decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolutions of 4 and 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;
> 
> https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reading comprehension tin man.
> 
> First, the parties need to STOP fighting.  Then there is a truce.  Then an armistice.
> 
> From what you wrote, the UN "ordered them to stop the fighting and sign an armistice"
> 
> Reread what you wrote in your previous post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN Security Council called for the armistice. Several truces were broken before the Security Council stepped in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me one source where it says that the UN called for the armistice.
> 
> Don't the parties have to agree to a truce and the armistice first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that were the case, the Security Council would not need to demand one.
Click to expand...


The Security Council can make whatever bellicose demands they wish. The Islamist beast understands retaliatory force of arms. That's why after multiple, humiliating defeats, there is no Islamist nation that is going to use force of arms against Israel on behalf of Pal'istanians.


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## abi

Hollie said:


> The Islamist beast understands retaliatory force of arms


Well, the truth is that all peoples that have been occupied have resisted their oppressors and violence, many times was the only choice they saw.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamist beast understands retaliatory force of arms
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the truth is that all peoples that have been occupied have resisted their oppressors and violence, many times was the only choice they saw.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I am so glad you do understand that the Jews, having been occupied and oppressed for 1300 by the Muslims, had no choice but to fight for their survival in 1948.


----------



## abi

Sixties Fan said:


> had no choice but to fight for their survival in 1948.


They marched into Palestine so bravely behind the British and French armed forces. After the British attacked, the Arabs fought back. Over 80% of the indigenous people were either slaughtered or expelled from their land.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> had no choice but to fight for their survival in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> They marched into Palestine so bravely behind the British and French armed forces. After the British attacked, the Arabs fought back. Over 80% of the indigenous people were either slaughtered or expelled from their land.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, how about a round of applause for those crusading Arabs-Moslems who forced the Arab-Moslem squatters off land they hoped to colonize.


----------



## abi

Hollie said:


> On the other hand, how about a round of applause for those crusading Arabs-Moslems who forced the Arab-Moslem squatters off land they hoped to colonize.


Is that not what the zionists did to the Iraqi Jews in '50-'51? Remember, the zionist terrorists in Iraq were murdering Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> had no choice but to fight for their survival in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> They marched into Palestine so bravely behind the British and French armed forces. After the British attacked, the Arabs fought back. Over 80% of the indigenous people were either slaughtered or expelled from their land.
Click to expand...

Such drama.  But you are talking about the end of WWI, where many Arabs also fought on the side of the British and French.

Yes, you are correct.  I am not sure about the numbers thought.

Many of the Indigenous Jews were slaughtered or expelled from 1920 to 1948 by the Arabs and the British.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamist beast understands retaliatory force of arms
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the truth is that all peoples that have been occupied have resisted their oppressors and violence, many times was the only choice they saw.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what the Jewish people understood in 1948. The Arab-Moslem invaders had one goal and that was to drive the Jewish people into the sea by armed attack. Unfortunately for you and those like you, the crusading Arabs-moslems were met by a better military.

You muhammedans have tried and failed repeatedly to destroy israel. How does it feel to be a laughable joke of a military force?


----------



## Sixties Fan

“They are destroying the future of Gaza residents with their own hands,” the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, Maj.-Gen. Yoav (Poli) Mordechai, addressed the residents of Gaza on his Facebook page.

In the post, headlined, “Rocket-propelled grenade fired a short while ago from the Gaza Strip to Israel hit home in Beit Hanoun,” Mordechai laments: “Once again, the terrorist organizations fired a number of rockets at the Gazans themselves. Only a few days ago, an educational room at the Ghazi Shawa public school was demolished in Beit Hanoun. This evening, in another incident, the home of the al-Masri family from Beit Hanun was severely damaged by a shell fired by terrorist operatives from Gaza.”

(full article online)

Rocket Shot at Israel Hits Home of Hamas Terrorist | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | JNi.Media | 29 Kislev 5778 – December 16, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Wait a minute !  The Muslims say that Joseph was one of their Muslim Patriarchs.
NOW....they want to destroy his tomb?  And not the first time since 1967...... 
By all means, keep showing that Muslims are "cousins" to Jews and that the Jewish Ancestors mean Everything in Islamic lives ]

On Saturday, Arabs disturbed the peace near Joseph's Tomb in Shechem (Nablus), throwing burning tires at the site.

Palestinian Authority Arabs published on social media calls to arrive at Joseph's Tomb and damage the site. Currently, rioters are parading towards Joseph's Tomb in order to desecrate it.

Joseph's Tomb is located in the Palestinian Authority created in the 1993 Oslo Accords, but since it is holy to Jews as well as Muslims, the site remained under IDF guard. IN 2000, it was attacked, looted and vandalized by Palestinian Arab rioters and a Druze IDF soldier bled to death because rescue forces could not reach him in time. In 2002, recurrent terrorist attacks led to IDF Operation Defensive Shield which returned Israeli security control to Nablus. Several years later, the tomb was refurbished by Israel and Jewish groups are once again allowed to coordinate visits to pray there

(full article online)

Arabs riot near Joseph's Tomb


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nearly 16 years ago, in early January 2002, the Israeli navy intercepted the Karine-A, a weapons laden ship, in the Red Sea on its way to the Palestinian Authority from Iran. The capture of the ship and the intelligence gleaned from it by Israel forced the United States to go “from viewing Arafat as an eccentric but necessary peace proponent, to viewing him as the heart of the terror problem.”

At the time, the so-called “Aqsa intifada” – a deadly  campaign that claimed hundreds of lives that was planned by the Palestinian leadership after Arafat turned down a peace offer from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak in July 2000 – had been going on for about 15 months. There was an international clamor to reduce the violence as Israel attempted to destroy the terror infrastructure that Arafat had overseen in the West Bank.

Yet, when Israel presented the U.S. evidence of Arafat’s involvement in terror, President George W. Bush responded by demanding the Palestinians find a new leader “not compromised by terror.”

After Arafat died in 2004, he was succeeded by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who still serves in that position even though he was elected in 2005 for a four-year term.

Abbas, who objected to the violence of the “Aqsa intifada,” has proven no more ready to make peace with Israel than Arafat, in addition to being corrupt.  He rejected a 2008 peace proposal from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and derailed two efforts by the Obama administration to achieve peace with Israel.

This week, in a shocking display of denial, Abbas accused Jews of “faking and counterfeiting history and religion” with their claims to Israel. He said this at an emergency meeting of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation in Turkey. According to a video of the talk, Abbas said:

I don’t want to discuss religion or history because they are really excellent in faking and counterfeiting history and religion. But if we read the Torah it says that the Canaanites were there before the time of our prophet Abraham and their existence continued since that time. This is in the Torah itself. But if [inaudible] would like to fake this history, they are really masters in this and it is mentioned in the holy Quran they fabricate truth and they try to do that and they believe in that but we have been there in this location for thousands of years.

Will this be Abbas’s Karine-A moment, when the U.S. and the rest of the world conclude that peace will be impossible to achieve with him leading the Palestinians?

Denying the Jewish connection to the land of Israel is an element of the Palestinian National Charter. But how can Abbas or the PA make peace with Israel if they don’t accept the basis for Israel’s existence? For Abbas to declare this so emphatically shows that his rejection of the Jewish state’s historical rights is a deeply held belief.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas’s Karine-A Moment?


----------



## Sixties Fan

_The nightmare stories of the Likud are well known. After all, they promised rockets from Gaza as well. For a year, Gaza has been largely under the rule of the Palestinian Authority. There has not been a single rocket. Nor will there be any .._. – *Yitzhak Rabin, Radio interview, July 24, 1995. *


In the history of international politics, there have been numerous ideas that proved both myopic and moronic. But few—if any—have proved more so than the ill-conceived idea of foisting statehood on the Palestinian-Arabs. Compounding the folly of this fatal fiasco is the fact that it was not only completely predictable—but persistently predicted.



Particularly puzzling—indeed perverse—is the fact that any prospective Palestinian state is almost certainly likely to embody the very antithesis of the values invoked for its inception by the liberal-Left Establishment.

*Corrupt kleptocracy or tyrannical theocracy*

After all, there is little reason to believe that any such state would be anything other than a misogynistic, homophobic Muslim majority tyranny and a bastion for Islamist terror groups--whose hallmarks would be gender discrimination against woman/girls; persecution of homosexuals, prosecution of political dissidents, and suppression of non-Muslim faiths. Indeed, its liberal-Left devotees have certainly never provided any remotely compelling argument why it would not be. Neither has the empirical precedent set since the ill-considered 1993 Oslo Accords began the ill-fated process of prodding the unprepared Palestinian-Arabs towards self-government.



After all, since Arafat’s triumphant return to Gaza in July 1994, despite massive financial aid, almost unanimous international endorsement, and a series of Israeli governments, whose pliant leniency towards repeated Palestinian malfeasance exceeded the bounds of reason and common sense, the Palestinian-Arabs have failed to create anything remotely resembling a sustainable, productive society. Indeed, all they have managed to produce is a corrupt keptocracy under Fatah and a tyrannical theocracy under Hamas.

Thus, after a quarter-century, notwithstanding the huge advantages it enjoyed —that, arguably far outstrip those that any other national liberation movement has had at its disposal—the Palestinian-Arab leadership has little to show for its efforts. All it has brought its people is an untenable and divided entity, with a dysfunctional polity, barely capable of holding even municipal elections; and an emaciated economy, crippled by corruption and cronyism, with a minuscule private sector and bloated public one, patently unsustainable without the largesse of its alleged “oppressor”, Israel.

(full article online)

INTO THE FRAY: A Palestinian State? What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian arrested outside West Bank military court with pipe bombs


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Nearly 16 years ago, in early January 2002, the Israeli navy intercepted the Karine-A, a weapons laden ship, in the Red Sea on its way to the Palestinian Authority from Iran. The capture of the ship and the intelligence gleaned from it by Israel forced the United States to go “from viewing Arafat as an eccentric but necessary peace proponent, to viewing him as the heart of the terror problem.”
> 
> At the time, the so-called “Aqsa intifada” – a deadly  campaign that claimed hundreds of lives that was planned by the Palestinian leadership after Arafat turned down a peace offer from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak in July 2000 – had been going on for about 15 months. There was an international clamor to reduce the violence as Israel attempted to destroy the terror infrastructure that Arafat had overseen in the West Bank.
> 
> Yet, when Israel presented the U.S. evidence of Arafat’s involvement in terror, President George W. Bush responded by demanding the Palestinians find a new leader “not compromised by terror.”
> 
> After Arafat died in 2004, he was succeeded by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who still serves in that position even though he was elected in 2005 for a four-year term.
> 
> Abbas, who objected to the violence of the “Aqsa intifada,” has proven no more ready to make peace with Israel than Arafat, in addition to being corrupt.  He rejected a 2008 peace proposal from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and derailed two efforts by the Obama administration to achieve peace with Israel.
> 
> This week, in a shocking display of denial, Abbas accused Jews of “faking and counterfeiting history and religion” with their claims to Israel. He said this at an emergency meeting of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation in Turkey. According to a video of the talk, Abbas said:
> 
> I don’t want to discuss religion or history because they are really excellent in faking and counterfeiting history and religion. But if we read the Torah it says that the Canaanites were there before the time of our prophet Abraham and their existence continued since that time. This is in the Torah itself. But if [inaudible] would like to fake this history, they are really masters in this and it is mentioned in the holy Quran they fabricate truth and they try to do that and they believe in that but we have been there in this location for thousands of years.
> 
> Will this be Abbas’s Karine-A moment, when the U.S. and the rest of the world conclude that peace will be impossible to achieve with him leading the Palestinians?
> 
> Denying the Jewish connection to the land of Israel is an element of the Palestinian National Charter. But how can Abbas or the PA make peace with Israel if they don’t accept the basis for Israel’s existence? For Abbas to declare this so emphatically shows that his rejection of the Jewish state’s historical rights is a deeply held belief.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas’s Karine-A Moment?





Sixties Fan said:


> But how can Abbas or the PA make peace with Israel if they don’t accept the basis for Israel’s existence?


Like ethnic cleansing, killing, and theft?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> _The nightmare stories of the Likud are well known. After all, they promised rockets from Gaza as well. For a year, Gaza has been largely under the rule of the Palestinian Authority. There has not been a single rocket. Nor will there be any .._. – *Yitzhak Rabin, Radio interview, July 24, 1995. *
> 
> 
> In the history of international politics, there have been numerous ideas that proved both myopic and moronic. But few—if any—have proved more so than the ill-conceived idea of foisting statehood on the Palestinian-Arabs. Compounding the folly of this fatal fiasco is the fact that it was not only completely predictable—but persistently predicted.
> 
> 
> 
> Particularly puzzling—indeed perverse—is the fact that any prospective Palestinian state is almost certainly likely to embody the very antithesis of the values invoked for its inception by the liberal-Left Establishment.
> 
> *Corrupt kleptocracy or tyrannical theocracy*
> 
> After all, there is little reason to believe that any such state would be anything other than a misogynistic, homophobic Muslim majority tyranny and a bastion for Islamist terror groups--whose hallmarks would be gender discrimination against woman/girls; persecution of homosexuals, prosecution of political dissidents, and suppression of non-Muslim faiths. Indeed, its liberal-Left devotees have certainly never provided any remotely compelling argument why it would not be. Neither has the empirical precedent set since the ill-considered 1993 Oslo Accords began the ill-fated process of prodding the unprepared Palestinian-Arabs towards self-government.
> 
> 
> 
> After all, since Arafat’s triumphant return to Gaza in July 1994, despite massive financial aid, almost unanimous international endorsement, and a series of Israeli governments, whose pliant leniency towards repeated Palestinian malfeasance exceeded the bounds of reason and common sense, the Palestinian-Arabs have failed to create anything remotely resembling a sustainable, productive society. Indeed, all they have managed to produce is a corrupt keptocracy under Fatah and a tyrannical theocracy under Hamas.
> 
> Thus, after a quarter-century, notwithstanding the huge advantages it enjoyed —that, arguably far outstrip those that any other national liberation movement has had at its disposal—the Palestinian-Arab leadership has little to show for its efforts. All it has brought its people is an untenable and divided entity, with a dysfunctional polity, barely capable of holding even municipal elections; and an emaciated economy, crippled by corruption and cronyism, with a minuscule private sector and bloated public one, patently unsustainable without the largesse of its alleged “oppressor”, Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: A Palestinian State? What could possibly go wrong?


What right wingnut fucktard wrote this shit?


----------



## Sixties Fan

First field lesson:

To hit the target there are three conditions:
1. Stand firmly, and balance well between your feet and your hands and your body ..
2. Keep your eyes on the center of your target, do not turn away,
3. Keep the balance between your body and your weapon, you are the one who controls the weapon, not the other way round.
If you do not understand the lesson, read it againThis is the "non-violence" that the Palestinian Authority teaches its youngsters.

It is child abuse - but you will not find a single children's advocacy group saying a word against it. Not UNICEF, not Defense for Children International, nobody.

(full article online)

Fatah gives lessons for children to attack Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 16 years ago, in early January 2002, the Israeli navy intercepted the Karine-A, a weapons laden ship, in the Red Sea on its way to the Palestinian Authority from Iran. The capture of the ship and the intelligence gleaned from it by Israel forced the United States to go “from viewing Arafat as an eccentric but necessary peace proponent, to viewing him as the heart of the terror problem.”
> 
> At the time, the so-called “Aqsa intifada” – a deadly  campaign that claimed hundreds of lives that was planned by the Palestinian leadership after Arafat turned down a peace offer from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak in July 2000 – had been going on for about 15 months. There was an international clamor to reduce the violence as Israel attempted to destroy the terror infrastructure that Arafat had overseen in the West Bank.
> 
> Yet, when Israel presented the U.S. evidence of Arafat’s involvement in terror, President George W. Bush responded by demanding the Palestinians find a new leader “not compromised by terror.”
> 
> After Arafat died in 2004, he was succeeded by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who still serves in that position even though he was elected in 2005 for a four-year term.
> 
> Abbas, who objected to the violence of the “Aqsa intifada,” has proven no more ready to make peace with Israel than Arafat, in addition to being corrupt.  He rejected a 2008 peace proposal from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and derailed two efforts by the Obama administration to achieve peace with Israel.
> 
> This week, in a shocking display of denial, Abbas accused Jews of “faking and counterfeiting history and religion” with their claims to Israel. He said this at an emergency meeting of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation in Turkey. According to a video of the talk, Abbas said:
> 
> I don’t want to discuss religion or history because they are really excellent in faking and counterfeiting history and religion. But if we read the Torah it says that the Canaanites were there before the time of our prophet Abraham and their existence continued since that time. This is in the Torah itself. But if [inaudible] would like to fake this history, they are really masters in this and it is mentioned in the holy Quran they fabricate truth and they try to do that and they believe in that but we have been there in this location for thousands of years.
> 
> Will this be Abbas’s Karine-A moment, when the U.S. and the rest of the world conclude that peace will be impossible to achieve with him leading the Palestinians?
> 
> Denying the Jewish connection to the land of Israel is an element of the Palestinian National Charter. But how can Abbas or the PA make peace with Israel if they don’t accept the basis for Israel’s existence? For Abbas to declare this so emphatically shows that his rejection of the Jewish state’s historical rights is a deeply held belief.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas’s Karine-A Moment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> But how can Abbas or the PA make peace with Israel if they don’t accept the basis for Israel’s existence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like ethnic cleansing, killing, and theft?
Click to expand...


You just described the goals that define Islamist ideology.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who Really Cares About Palestinian Human Rights?


----------



## Sixties Fan

So it’s come to this. The PA (Palestinian Authority) is upset with us…so upset that its leaders are threatening to cut ties with us here in the United States.

All that started soon after President Trump delivered on his promise to name Jerusalem the capital of Israel…to which we can only say Amen.

Come to think of it, this is actually the tenth time the Palestinian Arabs have made that threat…but who’s counting?

More to the point – who cares? 

Is there a downside to this? I see nothing but good. Are we supposed to be afraid?

I think Freud talked about this; about people with a false sense of importance. He did not have the Palestinian Arabs specifically in mind.

(full article online)

PA threatens to quit America - do you care?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> So it’s come to this. The PA (Palestinian Authority) is upset with us…so upset that its leaders are threatening to cut ties with us here in the United States.
> 
> All that started soon after President Trump delivered on his promise to name Jerusalem the capital of Israel…to which we can only say Amen.
> 
> Come to think of it, this is actually the tenth time the Palestinian Arabs have made that threat…but who’s counting?
> 
> More to the point – who cares?
> 
> Is there a downside to this? I see nothing but good. Are we supposed to be afraid?
> 
> I think Freud talked about this; about people with a false sense of importance. He did not have the Palestinian Arabs specifically in mind.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA threatens to quit America - do you care?


No. Israel does not need another lawyer.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah calls for violence: "Strap on your weapon" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  At what point, to any other country, this is a declaration of war and the need to put an end to all rockets coming from that area? ]

A rocket fired by a terrorist group in the Gaza Strip on Sunday night struck next to a home in an Israeli community north of the coastal enclave, causing damage but no injuries, according to media reports.

The army confirmed that two rockets were launched from the Gaza Strip and that both struck inside Israel, in the Hof Ashkelon region.

(full article online)

Gaza rocket smashes into Israeli town near border, damaging home


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hakim had previously said such controversial things as "The time has come for a new Middle East based on love, peace, coexistence and rejection of hatred, violence and extremism."

It is encouraging that a few Saudis can actually say things that are relatively normal and honest. But the backlash to Hakim's statement, especially in Palestinian media, illuminate something about the reaction to Donald Trump's Jerusalem speech.

In both cases, someone says something that is obviously true. In both cases, the backlash is not against the truth of the statement - but against the implications. To the Palestinians, the truth must be avoided at all costs.

And the world looks at one side that says the truth, the other side that fights with all its might against the truth, and concludes that the real truth must be closer to the side that makes a bigger noise.

That is the genius of the Palestinian Big Lie.

(full article online)

Saudi scholar mentions that Jerusalem is sacred to Jews. Of course he is denounced ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas vs. Donald Trump


----------



## Sixties Fan

Daphne Anson: David Singer: OIC in Legal Fantasyland over Trump, Jerusalem and Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Americans, meanwhile, give hundreds of millions of dollars a year to these people so they can be insulted.

But for some reason, no one seems to care about Palestinians insulting Americans and burning American officials in effigy.

(full article online)

Bethlehem Arabs use Christmas candles to burn photos of Pence and other American officials ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

After the agreement brokered by Egypt to reconcile the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, PA workers in various government ministries were supposed to return to their jobs after years of enforce (and paid) vacation.

On Sunday morning, 18 PA employees of the Ministry of Culture showed up to work. But the Hamas workers there didn't want to give up their positions of leadership.

So they took out guns and threatened to kill the PA workers if they went to work.

The Ramallah-based Ministry of Culture deplored the actions of the Hamas-run Gaza-based Ministry of Culture for threatening its employees, after two months of negotiations to allow them to return to their jobs. The Ministry noted that bringing guns to the workplace to threaten coworkers is not professional.

This is an indication of how well the much heralded reconciliation has been going.

(full article online)

Reconciliation! PA employees show up at their old jobs in Gaza - and Hamas workers stop them with guns ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It is a Muslim thing..... ]

Columnist For Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood Daily: U.S. Must Be Reminded Of The Days Of The Sacrifice Operations, Which Are The Palestinians' Only Option


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Is Ibrahim Abu Thuraya's death the latest Pallywood production?


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Live Fire': Media Falsely Accuse Israel | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anyone who knows anything about menorahs would instantly recognize this as one of the hundreds, if not thousands, of menorahs erected by the Chabad hasidic movement worldwide. Wanting to fulfill the Jewish mitzvah of "publicizing the miracle," they erect huge menorahs all over the place.

Including checkpoints, so soldiers can enjoy them for eight days out of the year.

It is not a political statement. It is not meant to rub anyone's nose in Judaism. It is meant to do a mitzvah, exactly the same as lighting a menorah in one's house.

But when your entire concept of Judaism is so perverted as Anne Baltzer's and that of the pro-BDS Jews, everything any Jew does in Israel is considered an affront to Palestinians.

They are the bigots.

Would they complain about how Muslims co-opt Jewish and Christian holy places? About how Muslims send their calls to prayer out at ear-splitting volume towards communities of non-Muslims?

Of course not. They are antisemites first, and they only pretend to care about people's feelings when it is convenient to them.

And only people who deeply hate their own religion would think of a menorah as primarily a tool of oppression.

(full article online)

BDS clowns say Chabad menorahs are meant to oppress Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Tamimi girl is at it again..... ]

IDF arrests Palestinian girl filmed hitting troops in apparent provocation


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, Palestinians are upset at a new synagogue. 

Ma'anreports it this way:

 Despite the tension in the Holy City and the popular and official Arab and international rejection of Trump's decisions regarding Jerusalem, the occupation authorities opened a new synagogue in the Al-Buraq Wall in Jerusalem.The reaction is so far muted, less angry than opening of other synagogues in the Old City, but it has been less than 24 hours and there hasn't been time for the PA to do its normal organizing of "spontaneous" anger.

(full article online)

Synagogue opens inside the Western Wall tunnels, Arabs angry ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian strategy seems to be a full court press to isolate the US on this issue the way the Arabs have tried to isolate Israel over the decades. They seem to believe that with Trump in office, the EU will side with them against the US, which is what the UNSC draft resolution by Egypt was about yesterday, which is likely to be followed by a similar symbolic UN General Assembly resolution in the coming days that the US cannot veto.

The question is whether other Western countries will go along with this strategy. The UNSC resolution indicates that, regrettably, they will - publicly siding with the Palestinians no matter what.

They seem to forget that the US funds the bulk of the UN budget, as well as being the biggest source of the Palestinian budget.

(full article online)

Fatah Youth Movement extends BDS to boycotting US programs in Palestinian universities ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Let's put aside how Linda Sarsour, who lives in the US, has a say in this "conversation" -- but not anyone critical of Palestinian Arabs who attack and kill Israeli civilians.

First of all, the Muslim attacks and persecution of indigenous Jews in that land is nothing new.

It has continued for over a millennium -- how could it be otherwise for non-Muslims under Sharia law which originated the requirement for Jews to wear a yellow star to distinguish them from Muslims and shame them, disallows non-Muslims to testify against Muslims outside of commercial cases and obligates non-Muslims to pay a special, onerous, jizya tax.

Arab attacks and mistreatment of Jews has nothing to do with Arabs being oppressed, but rather the continuation of their being the oppressors. For example, Muslims have a history of stoning Jews that predates the re-establishment of the state of Israel, going back to when the Arabs played host to Jews.

In 1955, S. D. Goitein, in his book Jews and Arabs: Their Contacts Through the Ages, wrote:

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour says all terrorism against Israel is moral  (Daled Amos and EoZ) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jerusalem Palestinians still seek Israeli citizenship despite Trump declaration


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Tamimi girl is at it again..... ]
> 
> IDF arrests Palestinian girl filmed hitting troops in apparent provocation


So, what were those IDF goontards doing in Nabi Saleh? That is a Palestinian village.

Did he cwy?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Tamimi girl is at it again..... ]
> 
> IDF arrests Palestinian girl filmed hitting troops in apparent provocation
> 
> 
> 
> So, what were those IDF goontards doing in Nabi Saleh? That is a Palestinian village.
> 
> Did he cwy?
Click to expand...

Shutting down homicide bomb factories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Let's put aside how Linda Sarsour, who lives in the US, has a say in this "conversation" -- but not anyone critical of Palestinian Arabs who attack and kill Israeli civilians.
> 
> First of all, the Muslim attacks and persecution of indigenous Jews in that land is nothing new.
> 
> It has continued for over a millennium -- how could it be otherwise for non-Muslims under Sharia law which originated the requirement for Jews to wear a yellow star to distinguish them from Muslims and shame them, disallows non-Muslims to testify against Muslims outside of commercial cases and obligates non-Muslims to pay a special, onerous, jizya tax.
> 
> Arab attacks and mistreatment of Jews has nothing to do with Arabs being oppressed, but rather the continuation of their being the oppressors. For example, Muslims have a history of stoning Jews that predates the re-establishment of the state of Israel, going back to when the Arabs played host to Jews.
> 
> In 1955, S. D. Goitein, in his book Jews and Arabs: Their Contacts Through the Ages, wrote:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour says all terrorism against Israel is moral  (Daled Amos and EoZ) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Your bullshit propaganda site lied. She never said that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Tamimi girl is at it again..... ]
> 
> IDF arrests Palestinian girl filmed hitting troops in apparent provocation
> 
> 
> 
> So, what were those IDF goontards doing in Nabi Saleh? That is a Palestinian village.
> 
> Did he cwy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shutting down homicide bomb factories.
Click to expand...

You are soooooooo full of shit.


----------



## Hollie

Women’s March co-founder Linda Sarsour accused of enabling sexual assault, harassment in workplace

Linda Sarsour, the Pro-Palestinian activist who helped spearhead the Women's March in Washington earlier this year, allegedly enabled the sexual assault and harassment of a woman who worked for her, according to a report Sunday night.

Allegations of groping and unwanted touching were brought to the attention of Sarsour during her time as executive director of the Arab American Association, The Daily Caller reported.

Asmi Fathelbab told the website Sarsour attacked her for bringing the allegations, often threatening and body-shaming her, because the accused was a “good Muslim” who was “always at the mosque,” The Daily Caller reported.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Tamimi girl is at it again..... ]
> 
> IDF arrests Palestinian girl filmed hitting troops in apparent provocation
> 
> 
> 
> So, what were those IDF goontards doing in Nabi Saleh? That is a Palestinian village.
> 
> Did he cwy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shutting down homicide bomb factories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooooo full of shit.
Click to expand...

And the Jews soooooooo have Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The “Israel speaks Arabic” page, which is owned and operated by Israel’s Foreign Ministry, is followed by close to 1.5 million people from around the Arab world, including the Gaza Strip, who trust it, as they do Israel’s radio and TV broadcast, more than they do the largely biased Arab media.

(full article online)

Hamas Warns Against ‘Liking’ Israel’s Arabic Facebook Page Fearing Recruitment | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | JNi.Media | 2 Tevet 5778 – December 20, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Those who see only giants and heroes in that hateful little Palestinian Arab town [*Nabi Saleh*] probably share the view, typical of its kind, that asserts
the village is struggling for humanity, justice, peace and dignity, and... they need their freedom [via a far-left Israeli publication, yesterday]But there are Arabic-language sources that tell us with far greater candor and clarity what really drives Nabi Saleh's Tamimis. Those Arabic texts naturally were never intended to be seen by people like us and those who read our posts. But web tools make them easy to find.

Take for example Wikipedia's Arabic-language entry on Nabi Saleh. As we wrote here on Saturday night, someone doctored the Wikipedia text shortly after we first publicized it. Every reference to the village people's adoration of jihad, martyrdom and death to the Israelis was erased. 

But this past weekend, we found the original Arabic text as it had appeared on Wikipedia in May 2013. We saved the original Arabic text to here, and a partial English translation to here. They are archived now thanks to the wonders of the Internet, and safe (we think) from the destructive attentions of those who feel compelled to re-invent the past. 

That deleted Wikipedia text is *the village of Nabi Saleh paying tribute to its own viciously violent true self: to its warriors, to its killers, to its dead fighters*, and above all to its favourite daughter, the one who smiles on-camera when she recalls how many innocent Jewish children she blew to pieces in the Sbarro pizzeria, our daughter Malki among them.

Virtually everyone in Nabi Saleh is a member of the Tamimi clan. That includes our daughter's murderer and the murderer's husband who is also her cousin - and also a convicted murder of Jews. And also freed in the catastrophic Shalit Deal [in 2011]. (They now live in Amman, Jordan). And also a hero of those self-proclaimed peace-loving, non-violent villagers.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 19-Dec-17: Uncovering some of Nabi Saleh's hideous buried secrets


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli NGOs have a role to play in this exploitation of children. First, videos produced by B’Tselem have featured prominently in the campaigns, including the AJ+ video. Second, B’Tselem and another Israeli group, HaMoked, published a joint report in October alleging that detention of Palestinian minors in Jerusalem reflects “systematic” and “extensive” abuse of children. As with other NWTTC materials, the context of heightened Palestinian violence and terrorism, including attacks by children, is completely missing. 

NGO Monitor research shows that campaign participants also make numerous false and misleading allegations about the IDF and Israeli military courts. One brazen NWTTAC distortion is the claim that Palestinian minors are subject to solitary confinement. In actuality, Israel’s separation of minors from adult detainees stems from international standards and Israeli law geared toward protecting children.

In fact, contrary to the NGO claims, Israeli procedures are consistent with international norms and the rule of law, and balance the rights of children with the need to stop violence and punish perpetrators. 

The video of Ahed Tamimi attacking a soldier, as well as the disingenuous social media campaign on her behalf, crystallizes the cynical calculus that lies at the heart of “No Way to Treat a Child.” Namely, Palestinian minors are encouraged to endanger themselves in the hopes of provoking a violent response that will help demonize Israel. 

(full article online)

#NoWayToTreatAChild: a cynical campaign to manipulate Palestinian children


----------



## Sixties Fan

The newest UNRWA-USA fundraising letter begins with:

 The original story of Christmas began over 2,000 years ago with a family from Palestine seeking refuge. In that spirit, we're collecting gifts this month to help refugees not only survive, but thrive.We might as well take the analogy further.
---------------------------

Joseph and Mary, being Palestinian "refugees," must have raised Jesus to hate the people who didn't let them into their inns.

That "resistance" (by killing all the innkeepers) would be justified as both moral and legal under international law.

Jesus must have learned in school that the oppressors must be fought by every means possible.

That Jews are dirty, as UNRWA schools teach.

(full article online)

UNRWA fund-raisers refer to Joseph and Mary as "a family from Palestine seeking refuge" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is no wheelchair visible.

Ibrahim's Hamas pals took him out of his wheelchair and placed him on the hard ground by himself, just so their complicit reporters could take a pathos-filled picture of a disabled man who cares so much about freedom that he goes out, alone, with only a flag to protect him.

The only reason that picture could be taken is if Abu Thuraya wanted to engage in his own Pallywood production of a poor legless man pathetically protesting while immobile.

Clearly, the man is happy to act as a pawn to make Israel look bad.

Could he also have been complicit in his own death? A man who probably has no marriage prospects, no ability to fight, and useless to his cause - except for becoming a martyr?

I have no evidence for this. It is all conjecture. I dislike conspiracy theories. But there is more to this story than is being reported, and there is a reason the Gaza officials aren't being transparent.

But our UN "human rights" official isn't calling for Hamas to cooperate. He's only calling on Israel to allow a kangaroo court to come and make their foregone conclusions.

(full article online)

UN official weeping for a double-amputee terrorist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA promotes suicide bombings - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Need Proof Israel Should Punish Parents When Kids Throw Stones? - Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ex-professor who wrote pro-intifada kids' book says 'Christmas is a Palestinian festival'
A former Pace University history professor has come under fire for writing a children’s book that claims “Christmas is a Palestinian festival” and that Jesus was an Abrahamic prophet born in a Palestinian city.

Golbarg Bashi’s book “P is for Palestine” has been labeled an “incitement for terrorism” and “anti-Semitic propaganda.” But the author told Fox News it’s “a fun diverse children’s rhyme book” that “tells a social justice story about Palestinian history and culture through each letter of the English alphabet.”

Bashi, a “kids’ author committed to BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions against Israel) and empowering, diversifying kids media,” was heavily criticized for writing “I is for intifada” and calling intifada a “peaceful resistance.”

But B for Bethlehem, C for Christmas, and J for Jesus also raised some flags – for another reason.

“As I have said repeatedly, I believe it is very important for American, Mexican, Canadian, Central and South American, British, Swedish and children from any region and nation whose most important holiday is Christmas to know that Christmas is a Palestinian festival, celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ, an Abrahamic Prophet who was born in Bethlehem, a Palestinian City,” wrote Bashi.

(full article online)

12/20 Links Pt2: Author of pro-intifada kids' book says 'Christmas is a Palestinian festival'; BuzzFeed attempts to wave off Linda Sarsour accusations, but only raises more questions ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A few days ago, Jewish Voice for Peace held a special reading of P is for Palestine – the book glorifying palestinian terrorism – for children. And it was billed as a special Hanukkah event.

(vide online)

Delightful?! What the hell is wrong with them?

As a reminder, Hanukkah is a Jewish holiday that commemorates the re-dedication of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem thousands of years ago. Hardly convenient to the “palestinian” narrative that this land belongs to them. But it just goes to show you how un-Jewish Jewish Voice for Peace truly is.

And unscrupulous. This was a reading for _children

(full article online)

JVP Holds Children’s Book Readings of Book Glorifying Terrorism_


----------



## Sixties Fan

BuzzFeed attempts to wave off Linda Sarsour accusations, but, if anything, it only raises more questions


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Jazeera Joins the Anti-Israel Child Campaign


----------



## Sixties Fan

In my previous post on the double-amputee Ibrahim Abu Thurayeh who was killed in Gaza last week, I quoted RT which interviewed the family:

" The Palestinian’s brother told Ruptly that Thurayeh knew he would not be coming back from the protest alive. “Yesterday my brother said to me while he was eating dinner us: ‘Brother, forgive me. This is the last night you will see me. And you, my mother, forgive me, and you my sisters, you all forgive me...’
“He kissed the hand and the leg of my father and said to him: Father, forgive me. This is the last night you will see me, as I intend to be a martyr. I am bored of this life, I have no legs and I have nothing. I want to die and rest from life.”
His mother told Ruptly that her son wanted to “sacrifice himself for the homeland,” adding that “he has become a martyr.” His father said that his son died for Jerusalem."
-----

So did he plan his own death - perhaps even at the hands of Hamas?

 A couple of other pieces of information might indicate that martyrdom wasn't his main goal - providing for his family was.

(full article online)

Did Ibrahim Abu Thurayeh want to die so his family would get "martyr" money? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an's headline was probably accurate when it slightly changed his words to say that he meant that not only Jerusalem but "Palestine is a side issue" in the Arab world.

It is true. At the same time that Arab leaders will mouth their support for Palestinians in forums like the UN, when the West isn't the audience they have been signaling their impatience and apathy towards the issue for years. 

We noticed this as far back as 2008, as the Arab world already then was reluctant to pay their pledges to the Palestinian Authority (holding back some $700 million!) because the Hamas/Fatah split proved that the Palestinians don't have their own act together.

When asked to protest against Israel, sure, the Palestinian factions can speak with a unified voice, but they have no unity outside of hate for Israel. They can't agree on anything - not even when to hold elections.

(full article online)

Foreign minister of Bahrain says  Jerusalem is a "side issue" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The filmed item – titled “Palestinian girl arrested after ‘slap’ video” – opens with footage marked “Courtesy Nariam Tamimi” who just happens to be the mother of that “Palestinian girl”. Viewers are told that:

“This is Ahed Tamimi and her cousin Noor with two Israeli soldiers. They are in the Palestinian village of Nabi Saleh during weekly protests. Three nights later 17-year-old Ahed was arrested. She’s accused of assault and taking part in violent riots. Just before the incident, the soldiers had been clashing with Palestinians around the Tamimis’ home who were protesting against the Israeli occupation and Donald Trump declaring Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”

The next part of the footage is marked “Courtesy Bilal Tamimi” – who is Ahed Tamimi’s uncle.

“This video of Ahed Tamimi (in pink) went viral in 2015. She is a prominent child activist. She was trying to prevent her 12-year-old brother’s arrest for throwing rocks. She bit the Israeli soldier’s hand. Following that incident, she and her family met Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.”

The video does not inform viewers that (despite the BBC’s effort to shoehorn the US president’s recent announcement on Jerusalem into the story) violent rioting has been taking place weekly in Nabi Saleh since December 2009. Neither does it clarify that Ahed Tamimi’s father Bassem is the main organiser of those Friday riots or that, together with other family members, he and his brother Bilal run a ‘news agency’ called ‘Tamimi Press’ which produces and distributes footage and images from those weekly riots, often featuring children from the Tamimi clan such as Ahed.

What this BBC video does do, however, is provide further PR for that particular Tamimi family business.

(full article online)

BBC News website promotes the Tamimi clan again


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is worth noting that the campaign against US institutions also states that the Palestinians' real goal is to "liberate Palestine, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river." In other words, this means that the true goal of the Palestinians is to destroy Israel.


Why do Mahmoud Abbas's remarks come as a surprise? He is simply reiterating the official, long-standing policy of the Palestinian Authority. Where has the West been when Palestinian leaders have declared outright, decade after decade, that Israel has no right to exist and Jewish history is nothing more than lies?


Let us get things straight, finally. The Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims cannot stomach the fact that Israel exists, period. Their real problem is not with Trump's recognition of the reality -- that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Rather, they have a problem with Israel's very existence.
(full article online)

Is It Really about Jerusalem?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The filmed item – titled “Palestinian girl arrested after ‘slap’ video” – opens with footage marked “Courtesy Nariam Tamimi” who just happens to be the mother of that “Palestinian girl”. Viewers are told that:
> 
> “This is Ahed Tamimi and her cousin Noor with two Israeli soldiers. They are in the Palestinian village of Nabi Saleh during weekly protests. Three nights later 17-year-old Ahed was arrested. She’s accused of assault and taking part in violent riots. Just before the incident, the soldiers had been clashing with Palestinians around the Tamimis’ home who were protesting against the Israeli occupation and Donald Trump declaring Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”
> 
> The next part of the footage is marked “Courtesy Bilal Tamimi” – who is Ahed Tamimi’s uncle.
> 
> “This video of Ahed Tamimi (in pink) went viral in 2015. She is a prominent child activist. She was trying to prevent her 12-year-old brother’s arrest for throwing rocks. She bit the Israeli soldier’s hand. Following that incident, she and her family met Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.”
> 
> The video does not inform viewers that (despite the BBC’s effort to shoehorn the US president’s recent announcement on Jerusalem into the story) violent rioting has been taking place weekly in Nabi Saleh since December 2009. Neither does it clarify that Ahed Tamimi’s father Bassem is the main organiser of those Friday riots or that, together with other family members, he and his brother Bilal run a ‘news agency’ called ‘Tamimi Press’ which produces and distributes footage and images from those weekly riots, often featuring children from the Tamimi clan such as Ahed.
> 
> What this BBC video does do, however, is provide further PR for that particular Tamimi family business.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> BBC News website promotes the Tamimi clan again


Motherhood and resistance in Palestine


----------



## Sixties Fan

The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.

The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.

(full article online)

Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com





Sixties Fan said:


> These are estimated at $145 million.


Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

[ "Drop in the bucket" with what Iraq intends to do with the Palestinians.  But you are not going to boycott Iraq, are you now?
Instead of giving them residency, after all they are ALL Arabs, they are treated like the poor relative they want nothing to do with.  Tsk, tsk, tsk ]

The new laws will cancel residence permits, exemption from tuition payments in schools, free medical care and free residency provided to the estimated 4,000 Palestinian refugees living in Iraq.

(full article online)

Iraqi gov't cancels rights of Palestinian refugees - Israel National News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How many are going to fall for this, and for how long.....]

Hamas leader: We will no longer rule in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Besides being Muslims and Arabs, what is it that Hezbollah has to do with Israel and Palestine, the Mandate or the State?  ]


Watch: Hezbollah Routinely Gathering Intelligence at Israel’s Border for the Future Confrontation | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [ "Drop in the bucket" with what Iraq intends to do with the Palestinians.  But you are not going to boycott Iraq, are you now?
> Instead of giving them residency, after all they are ALL Arabs, they are treated like the poor relative they want nothing to do with.  Tsk, tsk, tsk ]
> 
> The new laws will cancel residence permits, exemption from tuition payments in schools, free medical care and free residency provided to the estimated 4,000 Palestinian refugees living in Iraq.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Iraqi gov't cancels rights of Palestinian refugees - Israel National News
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ How many are going to fall for this, and for how long.....]
> 
> Hamas leader: We will no longer rule in Gaza


That will last until Abbas starts arresting people without warrants, charges, or trials like he does in the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

In part, you're correct. The islamic terrorists at the tip of the UNRWA welfare fraud syndicate have stolen uncountable amounts of welfare fraud money that has been siphoned off and stashed in foreign bank accounts.

Congratulate yourself on being an accomplice to welfare fraud.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian girl recited a poem on PA TV, which included antisemitic hate speech about Jews. The girl presented the poem in response to US President "Trump's decision [that] Jerusalem is the capital of Israel." 

In her poem the girl stated that Jews "defile Jerusalem and its great mosque."

The poem addresses former British Foreign Secretary, who issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917 that Britain supported "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people:" 









"This poem is because of [US President Donald] Trump's decision that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel:
[Former British Foreign Secretary] Balfour, you vile person, what did you do to our people?
Is your conscience quiet?
Go in your grave toward the blazing fire
You are the one that expelled us, do not ask for help
You drank our blood from a goblet, and brought this fate down upon us...
You brought to our people those who orphaned small children
You have turned the best of our people into Martyrs and prisoners
Why did you bring the Jews to us, who defile Jerusalem and its great mosque?"
[Official PA TV, _Giants of Endurance_, Dec. 15, 2017]

Palestinian Media Watch has documented similar hate speech by Palestinian children, who are taught to despise Jews as the "most evil among creations."  

Official PA TV likewise broadcast a statement of an Israeli Arab man in Jerusalem expressing antisemitic views at a demonstration against the American recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, stating that Jews are "the world's stench": 

(full article online)

Girl's antisemitic poem on PA TV: "Jews defile Jerusalem" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reports from the West Bank after the Six Day War show that the Arabs interviewed defined themselves as "Arabs" or "Jordanians", and evidently did not yet know that they were "the Palestinian people". Since then, they were taught it. They were also taught that it is their duty is to "liberate Palestine" by killing Jews. The Palestinians are the first people invented to serve as a weapon of mass destruction of another people.


"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality, today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese." — PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen, interview in the Dutch newspaper _Trouw_, March 1977.


Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the European Union has become the main financier of the "Palestinian cause", including its terrorism. They are also contributing to war.


Iran, strengthened enormously by the agreement passed in July 2015 and the massive US funding that accompanied it, has been showing its desire to become a hegemonic power in the Middle East.


The grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdulaziz ibn Abdullah Al ash-Sheikh, recently issued a _fatwa_ saying that "fighting the Jews" is "against the will" of Allah and that Hamas is a terrorist organization.


(full article online)

Twilight over the "Palestinian Cause"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In part, you're correct. The islamic terrorists at the tip of the UNRWA welfare fraud syndicate have stolen uncountable amounts of welfare fraud money that has been siphoned off and stashed in foreign bank accounts.
> 
> Congratulate yourself on being an accomplice to welfare fraud.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In part, you're correct. The islamic terrorists at the tip of the UNRWA welfare fraud syndicate have stolen uncountable amounts of welfare fraud money that has been siphoned off and stashed in foreign bank accounts.
> 
> Congratulate yourself on being an accomplice to welfare fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

UNWRA is part of the Palestinian problem.

Where is it "off topic"  ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sabah says that all 12 million Palestinians must get off their seats and walk, "barechested," and overrrun Israel. After all, Israel cannot possibly kill 12 million people, right?

As he writes it, "How many people can [an Israeli soldier] kill before he is trampled by the masses of men, women, children and the elderly, sick, disabled, and old?"

Tellingly, he refers to all 12 million alleged Palestinians as "12 million intercontinental missiles." This is exactly how the Arab leaders have traditionally looked at Palestinians - not as people but as cannon fodder, as pawns who can be used for propaganda purposes against Israel. Certainly not as human beings with human rights, at least not under Arab rule.

Of course, the idea that Palestinians must compromise and make peace with Israel so these millions would not have to be human weapons never occurs to Sabah - nor does it occur, as far as I can tell from over a decade of reading Arabic media, does it ever occur to a single Palestinian Arab published writer in Arabic.

(full article online)

Palestinian writer describes his people as "12 million intercontinental missiles" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The procedure was approved in 1988, in an attempt to force Arab debtors in Judea and Samaria to transfer payments to state authorities and private creditors, but according to members of the defense and justice ministries, the original procedure proved useless because the Palestinian Authority refused to help enforce it.
> 
> The new procedure was recently formulated by a professional team from both ministries, in an attempt to reduce the mounting collection orders in Israel’s law enforcement agencies against PA Arabs who owe Israel utility payments and fines, as well as debts to Israeli individuals and institutions. These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Liberman, Shaked, to Impose Law Banning PA Deadbeats from Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 3 Tevet 5778 – December 21, 2017 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are estimated at $145 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In part, you're correct. The islamic terrorists at the tip of the UNRWA welfare fraud syndicate have stolen uncountable amounts of welfare fraud money that has been siphoned off and stashed in foreign bank accounts.
> 
> Congratulate yourself on being an accomplice to welfare fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNWRA is part of the Palestinian problem.
> 
> Where is it "off topic"  ?
Click to expand...

Where does UNWRA give cash? And what does it have to do with the quoted post?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even though UNRWA knows how many Palestinians are in Lebanon and how many left, it claims that there are 450,000 "registered Palestine refugees" in the country - because it wants to screw the world out of more money.

I looked at this in 2012, when it was thought that there were still 260,000 Palestinians actually in Lebanon in a study that UNRWA itself funded - and buried.

Lebanon is where the world's hypocrisy about Palestinians is in full view. A country whose very laws are discriminatory against Palestinians, where Palestinians are barred from getting many jobs or to own land, where they are pushed into overcrowded camps where they are not allowed to build and that are not allowed to expand.





And in one case, the camp is literally surrounded by a brand new wall, complete with watchtowers, making it a literal prison. Now we know that the 100,000 Palestinians in this prison are more than half the total Palestinian population in Lebanon!

(full article online)

UNRWA claims (and takes funds) for 450,000 "refugees" in Lebanon. There are only 174,000 left. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anyone with enough smarts to understand that "Palestinian sovereignty = Iran next to Netanya" can almost instantly recognize just how silly it is to think, a Levin does, that it would be simple for Israel to get rid of a sovereign Palestinian state when things went sour. 

In the eyes of Israelis, Iran is no longer "just" a nuclear threat located far beyond the horizon. 

The Israeli street knows that the Iranians are already sitting in Syria. 

I daresay that the average Israeli can do the math today and understand that "Palestinian sovereignty = Iran next to Netanya."

(full article online)

IMRA - Thursday, December 21, 2017 Weekly Commentary: White House Security Document Offers Israel Opportunity To End Farce


----------



## Sixties Fan

In addition to the wording in this film, its visuals are also worthy of note. Throughout much of the film viewers see close-up shots of Awwad. However, they also see seven different images of photographs taken during the first Intifada – four of which show women in passive poses. None of the images including men – one of which features a priest – depict Palestinian acts of violence. Israeli soldiers with truncheons and guns are however shown in three of the images.

In the past the BBC has promoted the myth that the first Intifada was ‘non-violent’ (see ‘related articles’ below) and has completely erased Israeli casualties from its accounts. While it is therefore good to see those casualties finally acknowledged, this film nevertheless perpetuates the BBC’s long-standing romanticisation of type of Palestinian violence all too often euphemistically portrayed (if at all) as ‘protest’.

(full article online)

BBC News gives a sentimental account of the first Intifada


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Israeli Prime Minister's spokesman tweeted PMW's report that the PA is promoting suicide bombings*

*Fatah responded on Facebook: "Netanyahu's spokesman attacks PA TV"*

*Fatah posted PMW's video of PA TV's music video promoting suicide bombings*
 









(full article online)

PMW report sparks Israeli PM's spokesman - Fatah social media confrontation - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nothing about Israel, just greetings for Chanukah.

The responses that came in Arabic are nearly all insulting, because acknowledging a Jewish holiday means, to many Arabs, being pro-Israel.

So responses ranged from standard insults to things like this:





Arab media is covering this without any hint of their usual meme that Jews are good, Israelis are bad.

Clearly, these Arabs haven't received the memo that they supposedly love Jews and hate Zionists.

(full article online)

Arab antisemites upset at Turkish embassy in Israel giving Chanukah greetings ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Under preliminary questioning, according to Israel National News, the gentleman under arrest agreed with his interrogators that he had come with his knife to "_to carry out a terrorist attack against the officers_".

UNESCO decided by a vote in July that the Tomb of the Patriarchs is a "Palestinian heritage site". *Haaretz* reported at the time that 12 states on its World Heritage Committee voted for the resolution and three voted against. The vote also recognized the site "_as being in danger, meaning that each year UNESCO's World Heritage Committee will convene to discuss_" its case.

It would be nice to think the UNESCO concern stemmed from the long line of stabbers and would-be stabbers who have targeted the ancient site for their murderous purposes. But our impression is they have not the slightest interest in Palestinian Arab violence and their influence on sites of cultural significance.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 20-Dec-17: The Tomb of the Patriarchs: Another would-be stabber is intercepted in time


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Update ]

Analysis: Israel was widely condemned over the death of the 'innocent' double amputee Ibrahim Abu Thuraya in Gaza protests. But digging into his history shows he was a member of a terror group that morphed into Hamas and an agitator who wanted to 'die a martyr.'

Abu Thuraya’s alleged injury as an innocent civilian by an IDF bombing on his home in 2008, has also been found to be totally inaccurate. The Independent reported in 2005 that Abu Thuraya, a Fatah Force 17 member, was shot in the leg, in fighting between Hamas and Fatah. His membership in Fatah’s Force 17 is also reported in the 2010 book “Hamas: The Islamic Resistance Movement” By Beverley Milton-Edwards, Stephen Farrell“.

(Full article online)

Ynetnews Opinion - 'Innocent protestor' killed by IDF was a terrorist, told his family 'I In...


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Muslims recognize that Jews in Israel are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews/Israelites ]

A Hamas official speaking at a West Bank rally said US President Donald Trump, in recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, had given “Jerusalem to the descendants of pigs and apes.”

(full article online)

Hamas official: Trump gave Jerusalem to descendants of pigs and apes


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Who can scare a Jew? ]

Jews attacked while hiking in Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians stand to lose a lot if their leader continues to take a hard line with the only peace broker acceptable to Israel

(full article online)

Abbas breaks with US over Jerusalem — but for how long?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinians stand to lose a lot if their leader continues to take a hard line with the only peace broker acceptable to Israel
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas breaks with US over Jerusalem — but for how long?


It doesn't matter. Israel does not need another lawyer and the Palestinian do not need more fake peace process..


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah, the dominant party in the PLO, explicitly warned and threatened Christian tourists in 1967 and 1968. And Christian leaders, under Israeli rule, were confident enough to tell the world to ignore the terrorists and come anyway, even though some were scared off. And Israel took drastic steps to reduce the chance of terror attacks by banning non-Christians from Bethlehem.

This month, virtually the same thing happened. Fatah, led by Mahmoud Abbas, and other Palestinian groups warned of "days of rage" in Israel. However, Christians under Palestinian rule - who have been fleeing their homes in droves since the Palestinian Authority was established, under Muslim threats to them - are too frightened to blame their Muslim-dominated government, so they blame Israel and Trump.

And credulous reporters believe them:

(full article online)

How the PLO threatened Christmas tourists in 1967 - and today ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The idea that Hamas would disarm and stop digging tunnels and hand the Gaza Strip on a silver platter to Abbas and Fatah is pure fantasy*.*


Westerners are either ignorant and naïve or they are willfully deluding themselves.


Hamas simply cannot accept a situation where it is being asked to accept the so-called two-state solution....As made clear by the Hamas leaders, their goal remains to seek the "liberation of all of Palestine, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river." This is Hamas's mantra.
(full article online)

Palestinians: Another "Reconciliation" Bites the Dust


----------



## Sixties Fan

The head of the Shin Bet security service, Nadav Argaman, on Sunday morning told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that behind the relative calm of recent months hides a more realistic picture in which Hamas has being investing a great deal of effort to carry out attacks in Judea and Samaria, attacks which the Shin Bet has so far managed to thwart in 2017.

“It should be said that the terror threshold and the scale of the attacks we have experienced over the past year have declined, compared to the previous year, and the number of foiled attacks has increased,” Argaman reported.


Read more at Shin Bet Chief: We Foiled 400 Hamas Strikes in Judea and Samaria in 2017

(full article online)

Shin Bet Chief: We Foiled 400 Hamas Strikes in Judea and Samaria in 2017


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The idea that Hamas would disarm and stop digging tunnels and hand the Gaza Strip on a silver platter to Abbas and Fatah is pure fantasy*.*
> 
> 
> Westerners are either ignorant and naïve or they are willfully deluding themselves.
> 
> 
> Hamas simply cannot accept a situation where it is being asked to accept the so-called two-state solution....As made clear by the Hamas leaders, their goal remains to seek the "liberation of all of Palestine, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river." This is Hamas's mantra.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Another "Reconciliation" Bites the Dust


What a dumb article.

Abbas and his Fatah leaders have been begging Hamas to allow them to regain security control over the Gaza Strip as part of the "reconciliation" agreement, but to no avail. Hamas' response: "Over our dead bodies!"​
Fatah security works for Israel. There is no surprise that Hamas does not want them to have total control.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Hamas would disarm and stop digging tunnels and hand the Gaza Strip on a silver platter to Abbas and Fatah is pure fantasy*.*
> 
> 
> Westerners are either ignorant and naïve or they are willfully deluding themselves.
> 
> 
> Hamas simply cannot accept a situation where it is being asked to accept the so-called two-state solution....As made clear by the Hamas leaders, their goal remains to seek the "liberation of all of Palestine, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river." This is Hamas's mantra.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Another "Reconciliation" Bites the Dust
> 
> 
> 
> What a dumb article.
> 
> Abbas and his Fatah leaders have been begging Hamas to allow them to regain security control over the Gaza Strip as part of the "reconciliation" agreement, but to no avail. Hamas' response: "Over our dead bodies!"​
> Fatah security works for Israel. There is no surprise that Hamas does not want them to have total control.
Click to expand...

Either Hamas wants peace, even if Fatah does not as well, or it does not.

It was predicted from the start, again, that nothing was going to come out of it.

Dumb only to those who did not read the articles I have posted on this and other threads


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Hamas would disarm and stop digging tunnels and hand the Gaza Strip on a silver platter to Abbas and Fatah is pure fantasy*.*
> 
> 
> Westerners are either ignorant and naïve or they are willfully deluding themselves.
> 
> 
> Hamas simply cannot accept a situation where it is being asked to accept the so-called two-state solution....As made clear by the Hamas leaders, their goal remains to seek the "liberation of all of Palestine, from the [Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] river." This is Hamas's mantra.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Another "Reconciliation" Bites the Dust
> 
> 
> 
> What a dumb article.
> 
> Abbas and his Fatah leaders have been begging Hamas to allow them to regain security control over the Gaza Strip as part of the "reconciliation" agreement, but to no avail. Hamas' response: "Over our dead bodies!"​
> Fatah security works for Israel. There is no surprise that Hamas does not want them to have total control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Either Hamas wants peace, even if Fatah does not as well, or it does not.
> 
> It was predicted from the start, again, that nothing was going to come out of it.
> 
> Dumb only to those who did not read the articles I have posted on this and other threads
Click to expand...

I read it. It is a dumb article.


----------



## Sixties Fan

COGAT calls on Red Cross to release findings on death of disabled Gaza activist


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 24-Dec-17: Nabi Saleh, the media and a Tamimi child's journey


----------



## Sixties Fan

Really close. As in the film of 17-year-old Ahed Tamimi slapping an Israeli soldier square in the face, footage that instantly went viral on both Israeli and Palestinian Authority internet networks.

(full article online)

Tamimi Terrorist Family Claims B’Tselem Arms Them With Cameras & Training | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Hana Levi Julian | 7 Tevet 5778 – December 24, 2017 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 24-Dec-17: Nabi Saleh, the media and a Tamimi child's journey


She's the young woman many call *Shirley Temper*,​
Only by Israeli propagandists.

Israel really hates Palestinians who stand up for their rights.


That fucking Naftili Bennet should spend the rest of his life in prison.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 24-Dec-17: Nabi Saleh, the media and a Tamimi child's journey
> 
> 
> 
> She's the young woman many call *Shirley Temper*,​
> Only by Israeli propagandists.
> 
> Israel really hates Palestinians who stand up for their rights.
> 
> 
> That fucking Naftili Bennet should spend the rest of his life in prison.
Click to expand...


Easy on that keyboard, Mullah wannabe. 

*In Prison

Israelis call her ‘Shirley Temper.’ Palestinians call her a hero.
*
On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people, including the Tamimis. Some of the rioters, the army said in a statement, entered a nearby house and continued to throw rocks at troops. Then, it said, Tamimi and some women exited and started to “violently provoke” the soldiers.

Tamimi, her wild locks swept up in a hair band, can be seen on film slapping and kicking a soldier, as another young woman captures the exchange on her smartphone.



Yet another Islamic propaganda stunt, this time with consequences. It’s all fun and games until it’s not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people,


Who were they rioting against in their own village?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people,
> 
> 
> 
> Who were they rioting against in their own village?
Click to expand...


Who are you trying to make excuses for? Let’s be honest: the fair-haired, fair-skin, Caucasian looking female child was thought to be a propaganda gold mine by people like you. She’s less a child now and has become the delinquent that is out of control. 

What is it with you Islamics and your need to prey on female children and use them as a means to pursue your agenda of hate, an agenda of self destruction?

How excited you must be to have a female child to parade around like some Islamist terrorist trophy.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people,
> 
> 
> 
> Who were they rioting against in their own village?
Click to expand...


Against those who oppose pan-Arabism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people,
> 
> 
> 
> Who were they rioting against in their own village?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you trying to make excuses for? Let’s be honest: the fair-haired, fair-skin, Caucasian looking female child was thought to be a propaganda gold mine by people like you. She’s less a child now and has become the delinquent that is out of control.
> 
> What is it with you Islamics and your need to prey on female children and use them as a means to pursue your agenda of hate, an agenda of self destruction?
> 
> How excited you must be to have a female child to parade around like some Islamist terrorist trophy.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people,
> 
> 
> 
> Who were they rioting against in their own village?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you trying to make excuses for? Let’s be honest: the fair-haired, fair-skin, Caucasian looking female child was thought to be a propaganda gold mine by people like you. She’s less a child now and has become the delinquent that is out of control.
> 
> What is it with you Islamics and your need to prey on female children and use them as a means to pursue your agenda of hate, an agenda of self destruction?
> 
> How excited you must be to have a female child to parade around like some Islamist terrorist trophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

He then says that Abimelech, king of the Philistines, was really king of the Palestinians. "Abraham swore to Abimelech to preserve Palestine and the people of Palestine and live among them and live in the land with them in peace."

When the press reports on Neturei Karta "rabbis" waving the Palestinian flag, accoding to this nutcase, it is the embodiment of the divine covenant of Abraham, and in respect of these concepts and the law, who sought to live in peace with the "Kingdom of the Palestinians."

He ends off by saying "The bottom line is that Palestine existed before the waters of the sea knew their waves, and before the moon went into its orbit."

So, yes, he says that Palestine has existed for several billion years.

Which brings to mind this classic, originally from Latma:





(full article online)

"Maccabees are Palestinian" and other fun facts in Arab media ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, the army said, soldiers were in the village to contain a riot involving some 200 people,
> 
> 
> 
> Who were they rioting against in their own village?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you trying to make excuses for? Let’s be honest: the fair-haired, fair-skin, Caucasian looking female child was thought to be a propaganda gold mine by people like you. She’s less a child now and has become the delinquent that is out of control.
> 
> What is it with you Islamics and your need to prey on female children and use them as a means to pursue your agenda of hate, an agenda of self destruction?
> 
> How excited you must be to have a female child to parade around like some Islamist terrorist trophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...

I love duck!


----------



## Sixties Fan

“This year, we broke up 148 local Hamas cells in the West Bank. This high number of cells shows the increase in efforts by the Hamas high command in the Gaza Strip and abroad,” he said.

“Hamas sees the West Bank as being the main front for terror, with the intent of upsetting the security stability there, but it is having trouble doing that, mostly because of Israel’s efforts to stop it,” he said.






Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pictured here in Tehran with Prime Minister of Gaza Ismail Haniyeh, leads the world’s largest Shia country. (photo credit: AP)

The Shin Bet chief said the terrorist group appears to be deepening its ties with Iran, as the Middle East generally divides between the Shiite faction led by Islamic Republic and the Sunni one led by Saudi Arabia.

(full article online)

Shin Bet warns Hamas may be plotting West Bank takeover — report


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “This year, we broke up 148 local Hamas cells in the West Bank. This high number of cells shows the increase in efforts by the Hamas high command in the Gaza Strip and abroad,” he said.
> 
> “Hamas sees the West Bank as being the main front for terror, with the intent of upsetting the security stability there, but it is having trouble doing that, mostly because of Israel’s efforts to stop it,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pictured here in Tehran with Prime Minister of Gaza Ismail Haniyeh, leads the world’s largest Shia country. (photo credit: AP)
> 
> The Shin Bet chief said the terrorist group appears to be deepening its ties with Iran, as the Middle East generally divides between the Shiite faction led by Islamic Republic and the Sunni one led by Saudi Arabia.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Shin Bet warns Hamas may be plotting West Bank takeover — report


Hamas is Sunni.

How does that fit the propaganda?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “This year, we broke up 148 local Hamas cells in the West Bank. This high number of cells shows the increase in efforts by the Hamas high command in the Gaza Strip and abroad,” he said.
> 
> “Hamas sees the West Bank as being the main front for terror, with the intent of upsetting the security stability there, but it is having trouble doing that, mostly because of Israel’s efforts to stop it,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pictured here in Tehran with Prime Minister of Gaza Ismail Haniyeh, leads the world’s largest Shia country. (photo credit: AP)
> 
> The Shin Bet chief said the terrorist group appears to be deepening its ties with Iran, as the Middle East generally divides between the Shiite faction led by Islamic Republic and the Sunni one led by Saudi Arabia.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Shin Bet warns Hamas may be plotting West Bank takeover — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is Sunni.
> 
> How does that fit the propaganda?
Click to expand...

Sunni.....Shia.....tomato, tomatoe    
What is their common denominator?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel Hayom's Hebrew edition adds that Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are upset at how the Palestinian leadership has handled the Jerusalem issue. They were not enthusiastic about the Istanbul conference where Turkey and Iran dominated the discussion, and they fear that Abbas' rhetoric that the entire Arab world would ignite over the issue has been shown to be false, making him look like a fool.

Jordan in particular is upset because it feels that it has a special responsibility towards Jerusalem and Abbas' reaction, such as to try to isolate the US at the UN, could backfire for Jordan's efforts to be relevant in the holy city.

(full article online)

"Days of Rage" sputtering out and Arab states upset at Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And yes, they do mean ALL of Jerusalem, not only a part of it which has been offered twice and rejected twice ]

"The victory in Jerusalem is coming, it is coming. And Jerusalem is Palestine's capital forever, forever. *And the rubbish of the American president isn't worth - I say again - isn't worth the urine of one Jerusalem child*."

(full article and video online)

PA: Trump’s ‘rubbish’ isn’t worth a Jerusalem child’s urine - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas greeting Rafat Jawabra, commander of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the "military wing" of Fatah movement, after he was released from prison by Israel.





The Al Aqsa Brigades were supposedly dismantled by Abbas years ago - yet they still exist. And not only in Gaza, where they recently shot rockets at Israel, but in the West Bank as well.
---
If the hundreds of journalists drinking lattes in Tel Aviv would spend 1% of their time uncovering official Palestinian ties to terror, the world would look at the Middle East conflict in a completely different light.


(full article online)

Yes, Abbas still supports terrorists. Somehow, the media keeps missing it. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

This is very interesting.   Disappointment! 

Many observers doing analysis on the issues and conflict, have suspected that the crest for Arab Palestinian support was approaching the crest of the wave.   The majority of the observers thought that the peak of the crest would not appear for several years yet.  It's hard to say whether recent events, or the lack thereof, announce the close approach.

Criticizing the inept, corrupt and fraudulent Arab Palestinian Leadership has been fair game for quite some time.

One senior Palestinian Authority official told Israel Hayom that "the fact that the Palestinian public remains apathetic is worrying, and mostly infuriating. This is a failure by the Palestinian leadership."
*SOURCE:* Monday, December 25, 2017 Elder of Zion
​http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/12/days-of-rage-sputtering-out-and-arab.html



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel Hayom's Hebrew edition adds that Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are upset at how the Palestinian leadership has handled the Jerusalem issue. They were not enthusiastic about the Istanbul conference where Turkey and Iran dominated the discussion, and they fear that Abbas' rhetoric that the entire Arab world would ignite over the issue has been shown to be false, making him look like a fool.
> 
> Jordan in particular is upset because it feels that it has a special responsibility towards Jerusalem and Abbas' reaction, such as to try to isolate the US at the UN, could backfire for Jordan's efforts to be relevant in the holy city.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Days of Rage" sputtering out and Arab states upset at Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

Part of the problem that doused water on the "Day of Rage" and the general "Arab Incitement to Violence" is the separation of the Arab Leadership and the Arab Palestinian Plebeians.  

In the Gaza Strip, Unemployment of those males 18-24 year old, is male ≈ 36+%, female is ≈ 60+%; and in the West Bank the unemployment is ≈ 26.9%.   The Ramallah Government is more interested in international politics than it has for the concern of the general population. 

Sooner or later, the Arab Palestinians will turn to goals that directly  affect their lives. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is very interesting.   Disappointment!
> 
> Many observers doing analysis on the issues and conflict, have suspected that the crest for Arab Palestinian support was approaching the crest of the wave.   The majority of the observers thought that the peak of the crest would not appear for several years yet.  It's hard to say whether recent events, or the lack thereof, announce the close approach.
> 
> Criticizing the inept, corrupt and fraudulent Arab Palestinian Leadership has been fair game for quite some time.
> 
> One senior Palestinian Authority official told Israel Hayom that "the fact that the Palestinian public remains apathetic is worrying, and mostly infuriating. This is a failure by the Palestinian leadership."
> *SOURCE:* Monday, December 25, 2017 Elder of Zion
> ​
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Hayom's Hebrew edition adds that Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are upset at how the Palestinian leadership has handled the Jerusalem issue. They were not enthusiastic about the Istanbul conference where Turkey and Iran dominated the discussion, and they fear that Abbas' rhetoric that the entire Arab world would ignite over the issue has been shown to be false, making him look like a fool.
> 
> Jordan in particular is upset because it feels that it has a special responsibility towards Jerusalem and Abbas' reaction, such as to try to isolate the US at the UN, could backfire for Jordan's efforts to be relevant in the holy city.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Days of Rage" sputtering out and Arab states upset at Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Part of the problem that doused water on the "Day of Rage" and the general "Arab Incitement to Violence" is the separation of the Arab Leadership and the Arab Palestinian Plebeians.
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, Unemployment of those males 18-24 year old, is male ≈ 36+%, female is ≈ 60+%; and in the West Bank the unemployment is ≈ 26.9%.   The Ramallah Government is more interested in international politics than it has for the concern of the general population.
> 
> Sooner or later, the Arab Palestinians will turn to goals that directly  affect their lives.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I don't think Palestinian street is at all understood.
The majority of Palestinians vote for independent and tribal leaders while their voice is hijacked.
All we hear is Hamas, Fatah and the western liberal activists with zero knowledge of Arab culture.

Israel and the West need to understand who to talk to, there are alternatives.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is very interesting.   Disappointment!
> 
> Many observers doing analysis on the issues and conflict, have suspected that the crest for Arab Palestinian support was approaching the crest of the wave.   The majority of the observers thought that the peak of the crest would not appear for several years yet.  It's hard to say whether recent events, or the lack thereof, announce the close approach.
> 
> Criticizing the inept, corrupt and fraudulent Arab Palestinian Leadership has been fair game for quite some time.
> 
> One senior Palestinian Authority official told Israel Hayom that "the fact that the Palestinian public remains apathetic is worrying, and mostly infuriating. This is a failure by the Palestinian leadership."
> *SOURCE:* Monday, December 25, 2017 Elder of Zion
> ​
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Hayom's Hebrew edition adds that Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are upset at how the Palestinian leadership has handled the Jerusalem issue. They were not enthusiastic about the Istanbul conference where Turkey and Iran dominated the discussion, and they fear that Abbas' rhetoric that the entire Arab world would ignite over the issue has been shown to be false, making him look like a fool.
> 
> Jordan in particular is upset because it feels that it has a special responsibility towards Jerusalem and Abbas' reaction, such as to try to isolate the US at the UN, could backfire for Jordan's efforts to be relevant in the holy city.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Days of Rage" sputtering out and Arab states upset at Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Part of the problem that doused water on the "Day of Rage" and the general "Arab Incitement to Violence" is the separation of the Arab Leadership and the Arab Palestinian Plebeians.
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, Unemployment of those males 18-24 year old, is male ≈ 36+%, female is ≈ 60+%; and in the West Bank the unemployment is ≈ 26.9%.   The Ramallah Government is more interested in international politics than it has for the concern of the general population.
> 
> Sooner or later, the Arab Palestinians will turn to goals that directly  affect their lives.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think Palestinian street is at all understood.
> The majority of Palestinians vote for independent and tribal leaders while their voice is hijacked.
> All we hear is Hamas, Fatah and the western liberal activists with zero knowledge of Arab culture.
> 
> Israel and the West need to understand who to talk to, there are alternatives.
Click to expand...



RoccoR what do You think about this?
Palestinian Emirates Introduction

I do not see yet how this can be implemented, or if it's a viable solution, however I think his analysis has a point that is missing from the conversation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The typical, tired media explanation for Palestinian attacks is “frustration with the lack of progress towards peace” (as if peace were ever the terrorist’s goal) whilst painting Israels act of self defence as aggression towards peaceful civilians. Malaysian politicians, including Prime Minister Najib, have proven their innate hypocrisy by choosing sides in this matter. Turkish Premier Erdogan, who has repeatedly shown utter disregard for human rights by bombing and killing the Kurdish people in Turkey has also denounced Israel, but are we really supposed to take human rights advice from a tyrant?

Jerusalem has been the capital of three homeland states, all Jewish, in the past 3,000 years and has had a renewed Jewish majority since the Ottoman rule during the 1800’s. Palestinian Arabs have never ruled any part of Jerusalem, making their claim to the city vacuously null.

(full article online)

One Malaysian, standing with Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mary and Joseph refugees? I am not sure that seeking a room at an inn is quite the same as fleeing war or famine but UNWRA is re-writing history here so they aren’t too worried about insignificant details - like facts.

From Palestine? Palestine (Syria Palestina) is the name given to Israel by the Romans *at least one century after the death of Jesus and over 400 years before the birth of  Islam. Muslims first came to the Land of Israel when their armies left the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century C.E. to try to conquer the world. 
------*
(Note: Christians United for Israel are also up in arms at the PA's rewriting of Christian history.)

(full article online)

The night the UNRWA stole Xmas


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Here is finally... a full list of Palestinian contribution to the world ]





(full article online)

Confronting antisemitism and Israel hatred: 'Palestinian" ingenuity


----------



## Sixties Fan

Human Rights and International Humanitarian Law Secretariat: Abusing Public Funds to Perpetuate Conflict


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  ryiah,  et al,

Emirate ?



rylah said:


> I do not see yet how this can be implemented, or if it's a viable solution, however I think his analysis has a point that is missing from the conversation.


*(COMMENT)*

Dr Kedar might have a workable plan.  Bt for it to get support from the Arab League --- a powerful set of Arab Leaders is first going to have to take control.

It has been done before.  Jordan was an Emirate between 1923 and 1946.  The Treaty of Alliance between HM's Government and the Emirate of Jordan essentially was a Treaty of Peace and a Kingship all in one.  One Monarch made another. 



 ​
"And His Highness the Amir as the sovereign thereof."  The Sovereign --- "a supreme ruler, especially a monarch."  Customarily, it takes a King, or the Pope, to make a King (_*Westphalian sovereignty*)_..  So if you could get the one of the Kings in the Arab World to do what the His Majesty (King George VI) did.

The Saudi King would need the tacit support of the Arab League, but the League could do it just as the made the PLO the sole representative of the Palestinian people.

But the big deal here is what will the Israeli's do.  Their reason for being in the areas they are, is to provide a defensible border from further assaults.  From the Israeli POV, would an Emirate make a difference to the state defense of Israel?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is amazing that after all these years many of us still do not understand what this is all about. The conflict here is not a squabble among neighbors over borders. It is a religious battle between opposing civilizations. You don’t have to believe me. This is what they are saying. Our very presence here, let alone our defiant independence, is an affront to the Muslims, an insult to their very being.

As a Facebook friend of mine, Rod Lior wrote – “No military or terrorist organization ever laid down its weapons because the other side was less terrifying than they thought. The IDF does not need the image of being humanitarian among the Arabs. No one is afraid to go to war against a moral and humane army.”

In this region, fear pacifies and leads to quiet. For Arabs, compromise is an opportunity to obtain advantage. The chants of “Khybar, Khybar” we have been hearing from Muslims allude to precisely that. Only when they understand that our victory is total will they sue for peace.

(full article online)

The Quality of Mercy


----------



## Sixties Fan

When you have a starting point that says Israel is an occupying force, then you can more easily believe that we are not treating others with justice and dignity and respect and equality. But when you know that both sides signed the Oslo Accords as equals, the contract that created the facts on the ground as we see them now, then you know we went into the Oslo talks with hopes for mutual dignity and respect plus the hope that justice would be served to Jews and Arabs alike.

Nobody coerced Arafat into signing the Agreement. He signed as a responsible adult, as a leader representing his people, as an equal, even though the Arabs had lost the war (a situation which, in all other places in the world resulted in imposition of a solution and not a co-signed agreement). Even if there had been an occupation before that point, therefore, the signatures on the dotted lines did away with any justification for calling Israel an occupier. It is time for Sarah and all those like her to stop calling it an occupation. There are many other words in the dictionary, such as dispute, disagreement, war, etc, that would better serve the current situation.

(full article online)

Israeli Jews And Palestinian Arabs: Make Friends Not War - Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

NGO Monitor research shows that campaign participants also make numerous false and misleading allegations about the IDF and Israeli military courts. One brazen NWTTAC distortion is the claim that Palestinian minors are subject to solitary confinement. In actuality, Israel’s separation of minors from adult detainees stems from international standards and Israeli law geared toward protecting children.

In fact, contrary to the NGO claims, Israeli procedures are consistent with international norms and the rule of law, and balance the rights of children with the need to stop violence and punish perpetrators.

The video of Ahed Tamimi attacking a soldier, as well as the disingenuous social media campaign on her behalf, crystallizes the cynical calculus that lies at the heart of “No Way to Treat a Child.” Namely, Palestinian minors are encouraged to endanger themselves in the hopes of provoking a violent response that will help demonize Israel.

For those orchestrating these efforts, and the NGOs that try to advance a political agenda, a detained or injured Palestinian teenager is far more valuable than ensuring their safety and wellbeing.

(full article online)

Palestinians Cynically Manipulate Children for Anti-Israel Propaganda


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel does not limit medicines or medical equipment into Gaza (with the exception of a tiny number of devices that need to be approved individually because they contain radioactive material or the like.)

But the Palestinian Authority does limit them. And the world, obsessed with Israel's blockade, ignores the things that Mahmoud Abbas does to his own people, not unlike Syria's Assad.

Gaza health officials are alarmed as the shortage of medicines and other medical needs have reached a critical point.

There is now a shortage of materials needed for blood tests, such as tests for hepatitis C and B tests and HIV tests. There is also a shortage of PKU tests for newborns, and for thyroid diseases.

Also, anti-rejection drugs for people who have received organ transplants.

Out of 657 laboratory items needed, 383 of them are down to zero and 274 will run out within three months.

srael's restriction of materials to Gaza did not kill anyone (I did not see any such claims in Arab media) but these shortages, mandated by Mahmoud Abbas on his own people for some seven months already, are resulting in deaths.

So, where are the "human rights" NGOs complaining about the humanitarian crisis? Where is the media? 

They are discussing how a 18 year old "child" was arrested for assaulting a soldier on video.

(full article online)

PA continues its siege of Gaza - more crucial medicines are running out. But human rights NGOs don't care. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Art__Allm

Sixties Fan said:


> ...



Still spamming and calling names?
You write a lot, but there are no facts and no arguments in your posts. 
Just Hasbara...


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

A short Palestinian lexicon (poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

For ideologically insecure Islamists, rejecting a Jewish Jerusalem is a strategy to strengthen Islam’s position. By rejecting Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, Europe’s post-Christian political elite is ultimately rejecting Europe’s Judeo-Christian heritage.

Unlike the US, Europe is also trying to placate its huge, rapidly growing and increasingly radicalized Muslim population. By contrast, the United States is embracing its Christianity by reaffirming its bonds with Israel, Jerusalem and the Jewish people.

Paradoxically, for Islam, Jerusalem has only been valuable as a rallying cry against Jews and Christians. From 1517 until 1917, Jerusalem was a neglected backwater in the Muslim Ottoman Empire. From 1948 until 1967 when Jerusalem’s old city was occupied by Jordan, it was deliberately neglected in order to boost its own de facto capital, Amman.

Synagogues and historical Jewish artifacts where systematically demolished by the Muslim Arab occupiers while the world looked the other way. Jerusalem only became interesting again when it returned to its rightful owner: the Jewish people.

Turkey’s Sultan-aspiring leader Erdogan cynically uses Jerusalem and Israel to boost his own standing in the Islamic world. Enjoying being at the center of the Muslim summit in Istanbul, Erdogan repeated the lie that reborn Israel is built on “occupied Palestine”. It is especially ironic given the fact that Erdogan’s Ottoman predecessors occupied the land of Israel for four centuries and oppressed Arabs and Jews alike.

Never mind that there was no “Palestinian people” to be found anywhere during the Turkish occupation of the land of Israel. Erdogan appears to think that he is uniquely equipped to preach to Israel about “occupation” despite Turkey’s occupation of Kurdistan and northern Cyprus.

As a drunkard who accuses others of alcoholism, PLO leader Abbas ironically accused Israel of “fake news” when Pallywood epitomizes fake history and a systematic whitewashing of reality.

(full article online)

Obsessive Distraction from Muslim failure


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians say that what they are facing in Iraq is "ethnic cleansing." The new Iraqi law deprives Palestinians living in Iraq of their right to free education, healthcare and to travel documents, and denies them work in state institutions.


No one will pay any attention to the misery of the Palestinians in any Arab country. Major media outlets around the world will barely cover the news of the controversial Iraqi law or the displacement of thousands of Palestinian families in Iraq. Journalists are too busy chasing a handful of Palestinian stone-throwers near Ramallah. A Palestinian girl who punched an Israeli soldier in the face draws more media interest than Arab apartheid against the Palestinians.


Palestinian leaders, meanwhile care nothing about the plight of their own people in Arab countries. They are much too busy inciting Palestinians against Israel and Trump to pay such a paltry issue any mind at all.

(full article online)

Arab Apartheid Targets Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

For years, she has been at the center of more and more staged provocations (Ynetnews News - Palestinian girl filmed provoking IDF soldiers arrested). She always tries to get IDF soldiers to respond with violence, and she always fails (Ynetnews News - Watch: IDF soldiers provoked but refrain from responding). Because IDF soldiers are world champions in self-restraint. 

But in a region which holds the world record for cameras (https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5058947,00.html) per square meters, some kind of inappropriate behavior is found every few months. Not everyone is perfect. There are exceptions. Last week, soldiers were caught using unnecessary violence against a bound Palestinian. Certain organizations seize these opportunities eagerly. This is the IDF, they say. They’re lying, of course. 

Not all Western newspapers, which usually love the blonde, blue-eyed girl, got caught in the trap. In recent years, different newspapers in the world—including the British Daily Mail and the American Tower—have exposed the real story of Tamimi and her parents as part of a propaganda machine in Pallywood’s service. But they were exceptions.

(full article online)

Ynetnews Opinion - The blue-eyed poster girl of Palestinian propaganda


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## Sixties Fan

Senior Hamas Official: Gaza has an army that can be depended on


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ *Jews.*....not Zionists.....not just Zionists......]

The National Conciliation Document of 2006 was signed by  Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP and DFLP. Its wording can be interpreted to mean that all those factions agree to kill Jewish settlers, by using the formulation "_To affirm the right of the Palestinian people to resist the occupation, to preserve the option of resistance by various means, and to concentrate the resistance in the territories occupied in 1967, concomitantly with political action, negotiations and diplomacy."_

*Adwan is saying that all major Palestinian groups had already agreed to murder Jews, so why not get moving already?*


" Our heroic Palestinian people, and their courageous men, should not wait for permission from anyone to do what is a national duty and a religious duty .... The quickest way to prevent Jewish immigrants from thinking about migrating to Palestine or to settle in the West Bank is armed action, supported by all other resistance tactics. It is the responsibility of the national and Islamic forces to form an incubator for the West Bank Intifada by forming a leadership for it, providing material assistance to each injured person, granting lawyers to all the detainees and signing a document of honor to punish anyone who causes the arrest of a Palestinian because of his national revolutionary struggle."

(full article online)

Columnist reminds Palestinians they are obligated to kill Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

[ Who cares if there is no Apartheid or ethnic cleansing in Israel? ]


Arabs in Israel have higher life expectancy than in any Arab or Muslim country ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

You might want to note how:

The terror-minded suspect is about the same age as the young woman from Nabi Saleh of whom we wrote earlier this week ["*24-Dec-17: Nabi Saleh, the media and a Tamimi child's journey*"]. "Girls" of seventeen or eighteen are older, often by several years, than a steady stream of Palestinian Arab teens who have perpetrated (or been thwarted trying) terrorist Arab-on-Israeli attacks during the past two years. [Click on "*Weaponizing Children*" for dozens such recent cases.]
News about Jerusalem gets remarkably uneven coverage in the mainstream news industry. The decision of the Trump Administration to recognize that Israel's capital city for the past seventy years has been Jerusalem got vastly more coverage, even though no one's life was directly threatened by it.
In Qataneh (sometimes written Qatane), from where yesterday's would-be attacker lived, Israeli forces two years ago uncovered a massive weapons cache that included ammunition, knives, IDF uniforms and binoculars [source]. The village is located right next to the Israeli community of Har Adar, 12 km north of Jerusalem. The neighborhood has been in the news recently for the worst kind of reasons ["*26-Sep-17: At Har Adar's entrance, an Arab-on-Israeli shooter with problems and a solution*"] 
The security personnel who man the Qalandiya Crossing have realistic expectations by now of what some Palestinian Arabs, and in particular children, have on their minds. Consider for instance events that took place there just a few months back: "*20-May-17: A child, a knife and another thwarted stabbing today on Jerusalem's northern edge*". That attack-child was 14.
(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 28-Dec-17: At a northern Jerusalem security checkpoint, a girl with knives and stabbing victims on her mind


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## Sixties Fan

Terrorist who stabbed security guard wrote a will before carrying out attack quoting PA textbooks from his school days.
----------

Later, while traveling to Jerusalem to carry out the attack, the terrorist wrote a "will" which he saved on his cell phone. The wording of the will, which he remembered from school textbooks and which he intended to upload to Facebook before committing the attack, said, "My brother, take care of mother and father, and woe to you, my sister, if you worry for me. For the homeland I sacrificed my blood, all for you, Palestine." 

Shin Bet security forces noted in response that "this attack emphasizes the deep incitement to which Palestinians in Judea and Samaria are exposed, and the influence of material learned in PA schools as a spur and inspiration for terror attacks against Israelis."

(full article online)

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2


----------



## Sixties Fan

Santa is a rock-throwing Palestinian and victim of Israel - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Blame Israel For Injuries Sustained in Premature Explodation


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## Sixties Fan

[ When is it Not....a day of resistence ? ]

Miffed Fatah changes its plans for marking anniversary of its founding


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## Sixties Fan

And the ONLY reason there is no Palestinian state is because the Palestinian leadership has rejected every offer for one.

Every time.

Pointing this irrefutable fact out does a number of things. It shows that Israel doesn't want to control another people, it shows that Israel wants peace, and it shows that Palestinians prefer "occupation" to statehood.

Moreover, it puts the Israel-hater on the defensive, forced to stutter that the peace offers weren't good enough or whatever. To which the response is....then the "occupation" cannot really be so bad, can it?

When forced to answer this simple observation, the Israel-haters show that they don't want a state either. They will say that a state without Jerusalem or without "return" of "refugees" - not to Palestine, but to Israel - is not worth it.

Showing that they don't really care about "occupation" but about destroying Israel.

In the 1930s and 1940s, Zionists said they would accept a state the size of a handkerchief. They accepted a UN partition plan that wrested Jerusalem from them. They desperately needed a state for the Jews to live in without fear of being murdered.

Palestinians, however, don't have any sense of urgency in their supposed quest for a state. They are willing to wait decades.

If that is true, then they are the ones who are prolonging 'occupation," not Israel.

(full article online)

"But....but...what about the occupation????" (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

The narrative the Arabs feed people feels good, it’s a familiar narrative: they are a small oppressed minority who had their ancestral lands stolen by foreign imperialists who desecrate their sacred places and force them to live under foreign colonialist rule. The ones who are even allowed to remain after the majority are ethnically cleansed by the evil foreigners. They are treated horribly and barely eking out an existence due to this occupation and oppression, with many starving and the rest living in conditions not unlike the concentration camps in the middle part of the last century.

This narrative plays extremely well to anyone who is:

(full article online)

The Thing About The Conflict


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ten Basic Facts About the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict


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## Sixties Fan

“It’s Muslim and Christian population have been living there for *thousands of years*.”

Brilliant!


Christianity: began in first century CE (approx. 2,000 years ago) from Judaism, but have been present in “Palestine” since around 450 CE only (approx. 1,600 years ago)
Islam: began in early 7th century CE (approx. 1,400 years ago)
And while we are at it

“Jerusalem is Palestinian longer than London is English”

Anglo-Saxon settlements developed in London since the year 500 CE – before Islam.

(full article online)

WATCH: Al Jazeera Pushing Ridiculous Lies About Jerusalem


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## Sixties Fan

_Al Jazeera_ – or at least _Al Jazeera_ contributor Shenila Khoja-Moolji – is desperately clueless, stumped by the question: “Why is the West praising Malala, but ignoring Ahed?” So let’s help them out a bit.

Malala Yousafzai gained prominence as a teen blogger for _BBC_ Urdu, where she described her life under the harsh rule of the fundamentalist Islamist Taliban. The Taliban eventually decided to target Malala. On October 9, 2012, “[a] masked gunman boards Malala’s school bus and asks for her by name. He shoots Malala in the head, neck and shoulder.” 

As far as Ahed Tamimi is concerned, masked gunmen are great. In September, Ahed Tamimi posted a picture of gunmen masked with Palestinian keffiyeh scarves on her Facebook page and repeated the message written on the image in Arabic: “Tell the fighters all over the world that they are my friends.”

(full article online)

Al Jazeera needs help to see the difference between Malala Yousafzai and Ahed Tamimi (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> _Al Jazeera_ – or at least _Al Jazeera_ contributor Shenila Khoja-Moolji – is desperately clueless, stumped by the question: “Why is the West praising Malala, but ignoring Ahed?” So let’s help them out a bit.
> 
> Malala Yousafzai gained prominence as a teen blogger for _BBC_ Urdu, where she described her life under the harsh rule of the fundamentalist Islamist Taliban. The Taliban eventually decided to target Malala. On October 9, 2012, “[a] masked gunman boards Malala’s school bus and asks for her by name. He shoots Malala in the head, neck and shoulder.”
> 
> As far as Ahed Tamimi is concerned, masked gunmen are great. In September, Ahed Tamimi posted a picture of gunmen masked with Palestinian keffiyeh scarves on her Facebook page and repeated the message written on the image in Arabic: “Tell the fighters all over the world that they are my friends.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Al Jazeera needs help to see the difference between Malala Yousafzai and Ahed Tamimi (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Malala is for women's education.  Ahed is a hothead and Palestinian actress.  There's no comparison.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> And the ONLY reason there is no Palestinian state is because the Palestinian leadership has rejected every offer for one.
> 
> Every time.
> 
> Pointing this irrefutable fact out does a number of things. It shows that Israel doesn't want to control another people, it shows that Israel wants peace, and it shows that Palestinians prefer "occupation" to statehood.
> 
> Moreover, it puts the Israel-hater on the defensive, forced to stutter that the peace offers weren't good enough or whatever. To which the response is....then the "occupation" cannot really be so bad, can it?
> 
> When forced to answer this simple observation, the Israel-haters show that they don't want a state either. They will say that a state without Jerusalem or without "return" of "refugees" - not to Palestine, but to Israel - is not worth it.
> 
> Showing that they don't really care about "occupation" but about destroying Israel.
> 
> In the 1930s and 1940s, Zionists said they would accept a state the size of a handkerchief. They accepted a UN partition plan that wrested Jerusalem from them. They desperately needed a state for the Jews to live in without fear of being murdered.
> 
> Palestinians, however, don't have any sense of urgency in their supposed quest for a state. They are willing to wait decades.
> 
> If that is true, then they are the ones who are prolonging 'occupation," not Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "But....but...what about the occupation????" (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



The 1948 partition left a third of the Muslims and Christians, who with the Bedouins outnumbered the Jews, within the partition that was to be ruled by Jews.  How was that acceptable to the native people.

The Palestinians have never been offered a sovereign state.  The past deals all required that the Palestinians accept a continued Jewish military occupation.  It is the Jews who have insisted on continued occupation and continued control of non-Jews. There is no moral (or legal) rationale for punishing the native people of Palestine for crimes commited against the Jews by Europeans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ These are the Palestinians ]

WATCH: Gaza Missile Targets Ceremony for Fallen IDF Soldier, Crowd Runs for Safety


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## Sixties Fan

Photos of the al-Abed in court show him smiling widely, possibly because he knows that for every month he sits in prison, he and his family will receive dozens of thousands of shekels in monthly payments from the Palestinian Authority (PA).

In addition, al-Abed is aware of the fact that as he sits in prison, his colleagues are planning ways to release him.

Potential terrorists know that today, the most lucrative occupation in the PA is killing Jews.

The more Jews you kill, the more money you'll receive. Whether or not the bill to sentence terrorists to death becomes law, the Israeli government must understand that the PA's incentives and indulgences, as well as the terrorists' families' visits, must cease.

(full article online)

'Murdering Jews is the most lucrative profession'


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## Sixties Fan

COLUMN ONE: Facing a Tamimi government


----------



## Sixties Fan

So according to Abbas, Jesus was Palestinian and Jebusite Jerusalem was never the capital city of any nation other than the Palestinians since time immemorial. Furthermore, the Palestinians are actually Canaanites, and God promised them this holy city before Abraham came along, and so on.

We are laughing now, aren't we? It's not just one lie, but a culture of lies. The Arab leader's simple ability to stand in front of the world and lie in a way that almost seems like he is trying to convince himself. Jerusalem has always been the capital of the Palestinian nation? Really? But no nation ever ruled here other than the Jewish nation and its various Jewish kingdoms!

Before I begin a brief analysis of Abbas' text, I want to make a little side note: When Abbas says that it's "in the Torah," does he realize that, even if we accept the nonsense that the Palestinians are Canaanites, in the Torah, the Canaanites are actually expelled and the land is given to the Israelites? Not just to the sons of Abraham, but also to Isaac (over Ismael), and to Jacob (over Esau). The same thing appears in the Quran as well – that Allah gave this land to the Israelites and ordered the Canaanites expelled after they defiled it.

Here are a number of verses from Sura 5 of the Quran: "Recall that Moses said to his people, O my people, remember God's blessings upon you: He appointed prophets from among you, made you kings, and granted you what He never granted any other people. O my people, enter the holy land that God has decreed for you, and do not rebel, lest you become losers."

*You see, Mr. Abbas, it's not just in the Torah. The Quran, too, instructs the Jews not to retreat but rather to inherit the holy land.* When you fight your war of lies against our right to this good land, you are in fact fighting against Allah.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2017/12/29/the-palestinian-masquerade/


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## Sixties Fan

That is precisely what Hamas is gunning for. The most dramatic data in Argaman's briefing centered on the 148 Hamas terrorist cells apprehended in Judea and Samaria this year. This number means that while Hamas is putting on the breaks in Gaza, and doing its utmost to prevent a renewed conflict with Israel, in Judea and Samaria it has its foot firmly on the gas pedal, doing its utmost to carry out attacks. These efforts include a substantial financial investment and intensive recruitment in search of new human resources – the kind who would have a better shot at succeeding, like east Jerusalem Arabs and even Israeli Arabs.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2017/12/29/hamas-double-game/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  The day could come when all cultures will have their children deal with their enemies this way : ]





A young boy insults US President Donald Trump and threatens Israel during a Hamas rally in Gaza, December 2017. (Screen capture: MEMRI video)

In a rant over US President Donald Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, a young Palestinian child was filmed at a Hamas rally in Gaza earlier this month threatening “Trump the idiot” and “Netanyahu, son of a Jewish woman,” in a clip that has been widely shared on Palestinian social media.

The video, translated Thursday by MEMRI Middle East Media Research Institute, was from a December 15 rally in support of the Hamas terror group, which rules the coastal enclave and seeks to destroy Israel.

The child, Ahmad Idriss, who wore military uniform, including a face covering, had a message for Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Trump.

“This is a message to Trump the idiot. You idiot, your promise to Israel will not be successful. You idiot, Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine for all eternity,” Idriss screamed for the camera.

In an address earlier this month from the White House, Trump declared that — after repeated failures to achieve peace — a new approach was long overdue, describing his decision to recognize Jerusalem as the seat of Israel’s government as merely based on reality.

The move was hailed by Netanyahu and by leaders across much of the Israeli political spectrum. Trump stressed that he was not specifying the boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in the city, and called for no change in the status quo at the city’s holy sites.

“I say to that idiot Benjamin Netanyahu, you son of a Jewish woman, you don’t know your own origins,” the child can be seen saying. “Here in Gaza, we will trample the heads of your soldiers underfoot, like we did in Nahal Oz.”

(full article online)

At Hamas rally, Gazan kid threatens ‘idiot Trump’ and ‘son of a Jew Netanyahu’


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## Hollie

The affiliate of _*Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc.*_, DBA _Fatah_ seems a bit miffed that the Great Satan, otherwise known as _The Snake’s Head_™️ has affirmed Jerusalem as a place to be cured of the Islamist disease.

“Gee-had” Abu Zneid, AKA “Dalia Mogahed wannabe”, thought that hurling the “racism” slogan somehow made sense, in that alternate universe of the diseased Islamist mindset.

Odd how these Islamic terrorists are quick to hurl invectives at the Great Satan™️, but yet, they are quick to come begging to UNRWA like a gaggle of underpaid prostitutes for their welfare checks. UNRWA, of course, being an Islamic terrorist endowment fund to which the Great Satan™️ is a contributor. 

I sure wish President Trump would do the right thing and immediately stop funding both Islamic terrorism and UNRWA, one and the same, as a practical matter.


*"America is the snake's head... it is the source of racism," Says PA Parliament Member - PMW Bulletins

"America is the snake's head... 
it is the source of racism,"
Says PA Parliament Member*

*Fatah official: "Trump has joined the terror... [we will] have no contact with the snake's head"*

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Expressing her disgust with the United States after US President Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, PA Parliament Member Jihad Abu Zneid said on official PA radio that "America is the snake's head": 





"We have said in the past and we say today: As usual, the US is the snake's head. Therefore, this is not something new. The US is the one that plans. The US speaks about democracy, [but] it is the source of racism."
[Official PA radio station The Voice of Palestine, _A New Day_, Dec. 7, 2016]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mohammed Al-Dayeh has been under interrogation on suspicion of establishing and managing two Facebook pages -- "Sons of the Martyrs" and "No to Corruption." The Palestinian Authority claims that both accounts were used to wage a smear campaign against top Palestinian officials and accuse them of financial and administrative corruption.


There is only one small problem regarding the charges against Al-Dayeh: The man cannot read or write, and as such there is no way he could have posted the offensive remarks on Facebook.


This is about how Palestinian leaders continue to march their people towards yet more harm and grief. This is also about the ongoing failure of the international community to note any of the above.
(full article online)

How Palestinians Silence Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab League states discriminate against and exclude Palestinians because of their national identity.
Palestinian refugees have been denied citizenship for two generations or more in Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq.
Palestinians have been expelled from many Middle Eastern countries – e.g., Kuwait, Jordan, Libya, and Iraq.
In Lebanon, Palestinians must live in designated areas, cannot own homes, and are barred from 70 occupations.

(full article online)

The Islamic Brew of Racism, Apartheid, and Slavery


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## Sixties Fan

India harshly protested to the Palestinian Authority Friday, after the Palestinian ambassador to Pakistan shared a stage in a rally held in the Pakistani city of Rawalpindi with leader of the Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist organization and mastermind of the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks Hafiz Muhammad Saeed.


Indian media outlets reported the country's government announced its displeasure to the Palestinians in no uncertain terms. Spokesman for the Indian Foreign Ministry Raveesh Kumar said, "We are taking up the matter strongly with the Palestinian ambassador in New Delhi and with the Palestinian authorities."

(full article online)

Ynetnews News - Palestinian envoy to Pakistan shares stage with Mumbai attacks mastermind


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## Sixties Fan

These data are important not merely because they show that UNRWA has been defrauding its donors, since it receives funding based on the number of Palestinians it cares for. The data are important because they highlight the fraudulent nature of Palestinian demographic data.

Just as UNRWA massively exaggerated the number of Palestinians in Lebanon, so the PA massively exaggerated the number of Palestinians living in Judea and Samaria.

According to the American-Israel Demographic Research Group, a group of volunteer researchers who studied PA population data 12 years ago, the PA deliberately exaggerates the number of Palestinians living in Judea, Samaria and Gaza by more than a million people.

The PA counts Jerusalem’s Arabs even though they are included in Israel’s population data. It includes some 400,000 Palestinians who live abroad in its population rolls.

The PA pretends there is no emigration from the PA despite the fact that some 17,000 Palestinians emigrate annually.

And it overstates Palestinian birthrates.

Through these false data, the PA manufactured the argument that the number of Arabs living west of the Jordan River is equal to the number of Jews.

(full article online)

Facing a Tamimi government


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Fatah Facebook page is gearing up for the 53rd anniversary of its first terror attack, and it has created posters for its heroes.

Heroes like Zainab Abu Salem, who murdered two Israelis in 2004 with a suicide bomb.

(full article online)

Feminism, Palestinian style: Celebrating 53 years of female suicide bombers and terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Where the name "Palestine" really came from...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Today reports about a new poll of Palestinian Arabs where it is claimed that 81.8% of them want to cancel the Oslo Accords.

They probably aren't thinking this through.

The Palestinian Authority only exists because of Oslo. The autonomy they have in Areas A and B only exist because of Oslo.

Without Oslo, they all go back to being under Israeli control. There is no "State of Palestine."

And there are no legal claims to any territory.

(full article online)

82% of Palestinians want to cancel Oslo. Goodbye, Palestinian Authority! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Telling us what we already knew about Islam and Islamic terrorist franchises:

*Hezbollah and Hamas rank at top of Forbes’ ‘Richest Terror Groups’ list
Hezbollah and Hamas rank at top of Forbes' 'Richest Terror Groups' list*

*Hamas has $700 million*
The Gaza Strip’s Hamas, meanwhile, is now in third place, having actually dropped a rung from 2014. (The Taliban now occupy second place, with a revenue of $800 million). Forbes lists them as currently receiving about $700 million a year, vs. a billion dollars three years ago. They have two well-known state sponsors, Qatar and, again, Iran. But in the decade since it took over Gaza, Hamas also became expert in extracting money from its own citizens.

According to Forbes’ 2014 report, Hamas makes most of its money from a sophisticated tax system aimed at, among other things, pocketing large portions of the international aid that flows into Gaza. It also runs hundreds of businesses, controls several banks, and has levies on all consumer goods entering the Gaza Strip. All in all, the report says, about 15% of Gaza’s economy ends up in this organization’s pocket.


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## Sixties Fan

[ Let us notice that the "start of the revolution" was in 1965.  Jordan still had Judea and Samaria, and Egypt still had Gaza.  But the revolution is always only .....against Israel ]


Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas, who is also the leader of Fatah and of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), on Sunday delivered his annual speech marking the start of the "revolution" that began on January 1, 1965.

In his speech, Abbas presented the following red lines:

(full article online)

Abbas presents his 'red lines'


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## Sixties Fan

Terrorist freed in 'Shalit deal' planned terror attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And Arabs continue to chant the death chant against Jews.  All Jews.
And then.....it is "all" about Palestine and being pro- Palestinians" ]

In Milan's Place Cavour, on December 9th, the same terrible anti-Semitic slogan of Malmö resounded: "Khaybar, khaybar ya yahud, jaish Muhammad saya'ud". Translated, it reads: "Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return". A thunderous chorus repeated eight times by the protestors.

Khaybar is the name of the oasis inhabited by Jews that Muhammad conquered in 628. The place has a legendary and mythical meaning in the Islamist perspective of a final and violent submission of the Jews. Muhammad, at the head of an army of sixteen hundred men, assaulted, submitted, enslaved and killed the peaceful Jews settled in the oasis of Khaybar, north of Medina.

(full article online)

Chanting "Jews, remember Khaybar" in Italy


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## Sixties Fan

[ All of this to make peace with Israel after she withdrew in 2005 ? Hamas inviting friends for a party? ]

Iran is currently working on upgrading Hamas’s capabilities, Intelligence Minister Israel Katz told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Monday.

“In recent days, while we face the known threat from Gaza, there is a direct Iranian intervention. Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas are involved in operative preparations to upgrade the threat to Israel from the direction of Gaza,” he stated.

(full article online)

Intelligence Minister: Iran directly involved in upgrading Hamas threat


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## Sixties Fan

If the 1960s are your idea of “ancient times,” okay; consider the Beatles. They made their splash February 7, 1964.

That’s four months BEFORE the “Palestinians” got noticed and they, The Beatles, never asked for favors besides “I Wanna Hold Your Hand.”

(full article online)

Even the Beatles preceded the Palestinians


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## Sixties Fan

Remember the ISM of Rachel Corrie fame? No one wants to give them any money anymore. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

What happens to ordinary people who slap security personnel in the face (videos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> What happens to ordinary people who slap security personnel in the face (videos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Yeah but those were real cops not those criminal goontards in Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Funny, I never saw any Fatah-style posters glorifying terrorists in any official Israeli site.

So now the children, old men and other civilians murdered by these heroes are "gangs of murderers" that must be "fought.".

Good to know that Fatah is so public with its moral inversion. Not that any Western media will notice, though. 

Fatah also published a lengthy poem glorifying their heroes. Auto-translate does poorly on poetry but the poem does mention "apes and monkeys drinking whiskey" so it certainly has its share of Jew-hatred.

(full article online)

Fatah: Israelis are the terrorists, our suicide bombers are the heroes ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 01-Jan-18: Another reason we call it the catastrophic Shalit Deal


----------



## Sixties Fan

מה באמת קורה בעיר חברון | What's really happening in Hebron


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## Sixties Fan

The victims, two Haredi (Ultra-Orthodox) men from Jerusalem, approached Honenu on Monday with the shocking details of their ordeal. They reported that while they were being beaten, their two attackers forced them to utter the Arabic verses of the “testimony” of the conversion to Islam. They were also forced to praise the terrorist organization Hamas, and curse the State of Israel and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu –while their attackers were documenting the event on video.

Honenu Attorney Haim Bleicher, who immediately contacted the police and pushed for the rapid arrest of the terrorists, said that this was a serious anti-Semitic incident, which is unique even in these volatile times in the city.

(full article online)

Police Arrest Arabs Who Attacked Haredim on Shabbat, Forced Them to Convert to Islam | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 15 Tevet 5778 – January 2, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: The Truth about the Palestinians’ Blonde-Haired, Blue-Eyed, Soldier-Slapping Starlet


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nearly every day since Dec. 12, excluding the days around Christmas and New Years, the official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida _has published a full-page of pictures of protests including rioters throwing Molotov cocktails and rocks at Israelis. The only text on the pages is a giant headline repeated each day: "We shall not retreat." The locations of each event also appears on each picture, nearly are of which are from different Palestinian cities.

One page, from Dec. 18, shows pictures of peaceful demonstrations against US Pres. Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital from different countries around the world (Libya, Turkey, India, Pakistan, and Montenegro).

Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the Palestinian leadership and Fatah have been attempting to incite more violence against Israel ever since US Pres. Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. The following pictures are further evidence:

(full article online)

"We shall not retreat" – the PA’s daily battle cry for violence - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

PA to resume full payments for Gaza electricity amid reconciliation bid


----------



## Sixties Fan

Third Gaza Attack in 1 Day Strikes Southern Israel | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Hana Levi Julian | 17 Tevet 5778 – January 3, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Palestinian Media Watch has reported, both the Palestinian Authority and Abbas’ Fatah continuously called on Palestinians to participate in riots and to use violence at the end of 2017. Among these calls were the republishing of two old posters, both showing masked Palestinians carrying rifles and promoting violence.

The following text accompanied the poster above showing a masked Palestinian from behind, carrying a rifle:

“From the posters of the revolution on the anniversary of the Launch [of Fatah]:
*O fighters,*
*Tighten your iron grip on the rifles that create victory, the decision is yours and the future and victory are yours*”
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Dec. 28, 2017]

(full article online)

Abbas’ Fatah: “Tighten your iron grip on the rifles" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite rocket attacks, Israel to increase Gaza power supply


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Militant Chief in Lebanon Camp Says He’s Moved to Syria


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Three types of US assistance to the Palestinians*

According to the US Consulate in Jerusalem’s website, the United States has been the largest donor of aid to the Palestinians since the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1994. This aid has totaled around $600 million annually in recent years, and can be roughly divided into three categories.

The first is USAID, the conduit by which the State Department provides aid to countries across the world. The second is the economic support for law and order in the Palestinian Authority. These two categories were perhaps the aid that Trump had in mind in his tweet, though the president did not specify. The third is the US support for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, as addressed by Haley.

(full article online)

How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> *Three types of US assistance to the Palestinians*
> 
> According to the US Consulate in Jerusalem’s website, the United States has been the largest donor of aid to the Palestinians since the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1994. This aid has totaled around $600 million annually in recent years, and can be roughly divided into three categories.
> 
> The first is USAID, the conduit by which the State Department provides aid to countries across the world. The second is the economic support for law and order in the Palestinian Authority. These two categories were perhaps the aid that Trump had in mind in his tweet, though the president did not specify. The third is the US support for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, as addressed by Haley.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?




May it all be cut off soon.  Amen.


----------



## abi

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Three types of US assistance to the Palestinians*
> 
> According to the US Consulate in Jerusalem’s website, the United States has been the largest donor of aid to the Palestinians since the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1994. This aid has totaled around $600 million annually in recent years, and can be roughly divided into three categories.
> 
> The first is USAID, the conduit by which the State Department provides aid to countries across the world. The second is the economic support for law and order in the Palestinian Authority. These two categories were perhaps the aid that Trump had in mind in his tweet, though the president did not specify. The third is the US support for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, as addressed by Haley.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> How much aid does the US give Palestinians, and what’s it for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May it all be cut off soon.  Amen.
Click to expand...

Alter trombenik


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Water:*


West Bank has modern water infrastructure, and coordinates with Israel on regular improvements.
*Food:*


The West Bank produces and even _exports _olives, citrus fruit, vegetables, beef, and dairy products.
The travel web site Trip Advisor lists “The 10 Best West Bank Restaurants.” You can see the review, or even come see the restaurants, for yourself.
Two percent of West Bank residents are “food insecure,” an impressively low figure. For context, 7% of Americans are food insecure, over _three times more_ than the West Bank,  by percent.
*Healthcare:*


The West Bank has healthcare: with among the highest birth rates, lowest death rates and longest life expectancy rates  in the world.
*Justice:*


There is indeed a Palestinian justice system.  Depending on the matter, Palestinian courts or Israeli military courts may have jurisdiction, as required under the international Hague Convention.
Tamimi’s case is before the Israeli military juvenile court, where Tamimi is represented by a prominent, influential and highly experienced attorney, who is also the former director of Peace Now and sits on the Tel Aviv city council.
(full article online)

The Independent: Everything Wrong with Op-Ed on Tamimi | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA outraged over lamp in the Cave of the Patriarchs


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Palestinians threaten US in Arabic while claiming free money is a "natural right" in English (ElderToon) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

An article in Palestine Today says in Arabic what the  Palestinians try not to say in English.

If UNRWA cannot get funded, then the  "refugee" issue would fall to the UNHCR.

The UNHCR would not consider the vast majority of the people under UNRWA's mandate to be refugees.

As the article says, the entire point of UNRWA, from the Palestinian perspective, is to artificially keep the "refugee" issue alive - until the descendants of the refugees from 1948 are allowed to "return" to Israel.

Why would any self-respecting state, as the Palestinians consider themselves, want their own people to move to an enemy state? A state that they claim has an apartheid system against them, no less?

Absurdly, the demand for Arabs of Palestinian descent to move to Israel doesn't only apply to those who languish in "refugee" camps in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, but also to every single resident of the camps in the West Bank and Gaza - under Palestinian control!

Nothing makes the goals of Palestinian nationalism as clear as their demands to perpetuate and fund the fake "refugee" status of their people until they can "return."

(full article online)

"Palestine:" The only "state" that wants its people to move to an enemy state ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

I don’t recall hearing the word “scholar” in the introductions and discussion, but the word “activist” was repeatedly used to describe the participants and their work. The panel was organized by Seikaly, a historian from UC Santa Barbara, who is a co-founder and co-editor of Jadaliyya, “an independent ezine produced by the Arab Studies Institute.” If you visit the site, you will be invited to sign up for a newsletter and will be requested to choose your country. It appears that every country in the world is listed except one — Israel. One country that does not exist — Palestine — is listed.

Noura Erekat, a co-editor of Jadaliyya, is a law professor who admits that she is an activist. A gifted speaker, Erekat rattled off the standard leftist clichés about Israeli occupation, militarism, racism and settler colonialism. She displayed her ignorance of basic history by claiming armed groups took control of the PLO in 1968.

(full article online)

Middle East Studies Association (as Usual) Singles Out Israel for Attack, Excuses Palestinian Perfidy


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians also took to the streets to celebrate the 9/11 attacks carried out by al-Qaeda.


Another sign of Palestinian support for dictators and terrorists emerged in August 2017, when President Mahmoud Abbas sent the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-Un, a telegram congratulating him for "Liberation Day."


Something good has come out of the fiasco surrounding the Palestinian ambassador's association with a global terrorist: The Indians realize now that Israel is their ally in the war on terrorism -- certainly not the Palestinians, who again and again align themselves with those who seek death and destruction.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Always on the Wrong Side


----------



## Sixties Fan

Several additional rocket and mortar firings during these past few days fell on top of Gazan homes and land and perhaps people. They're what we know as _Fell Shorts_. The Arab side never reports these, perhaps out of embarrassment. It's exceedingly rare for them to be mentioned at all by the major news syndication agencies like Reuters, AFP and Associated Press.

This is a pity because, as we see it, nothing expresses contempt for the lives and well-being of Gaza's Palestinian Arab population more clearly than the steady stream of rockets that fall short and land in their midst.

Victims of the property damage and of the injuries that follow are right out of luck, because no news reporters come to hear their stories. For Gaza's Hamas rulers, if no one knows about the Fell Shorts, they never happened. Click *Fell Short* to see that we have reported on close to a hundred such own-goals.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 03-Jan-18: Wednesday rocket fire on southern Israel - and more Fell Shorts


----------



## Sixties Fan

Beyond that, Nasrallah calls to expand terror operations outside Israel to the entire world:

 Sayyed Nasrallah also emphasized that Hezbollah had repeatedly stressed the principle of coordination between the different Palestinian factions. "We discussed with the Palestinian factions activating the Intifada at home and abroad and providing support for it."

"Activating an intifada abroad" means Hezbollah is admitting to organizing terror attacks worldwide. We knew this, of course, but they don't normally admit it so explicitly. 

(full article online)

Nasrallah brags of Hezbollah getting new weapons and supporting international terrorism. Violating UNSC resolutions, but who cares? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Not the News Hamas was looking for ]

Islamic State in Sinai declares war on Hamas in gruesome execution video


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Not the News Hamas was looking for ]
> 
> Islamic State in Sinai declares war on Hamas in gruesome execution video




Good!  Let the animals kill each other.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> Beyond that, Nasrallah calls to expand terror operations outside Israel to the entire world:
> 
> Sayyed Nasrallah also emphasized that Hezbollah had repeatedly stressed the principle of coordination between the different Palestinian factions. "We discussed with the Palestinian factions activating the Intifada at home and abroad and providing support for it."
> 
> "Activating an intifada abroad" means Hezbollah is admitting to organizing terror attacks worldwide. We knew this, of course, but they don't normally admit it so explicitly.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Nasrallah brags of Hezbollah getting new weapons and supporting international terrorism. Violating UNSC resolutions, but who cares? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



No one takes that propaganda site seriously, why do you post lies?


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beyond that, Nasrallah calls to expand terror operations outside Israel to the entire world:
> 
> Sayyed Nasrallah also emphasized that Hezbollah had repeatedly stressed the principle of coordination between the different Palestinian factions. "We discussed with the Palestinian factions activating the Intifada at home and abroad and providing support for it."
> 
> "Activating an intifada abroad" means Hezbollah is admitting to organizing terror attacks worldwide. We knew this, of course, but they don't normally admit it so explicitly.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Nasrallah brags of Hezbollah getting new weapons and supporting international terrorism. Violating UNSC resolutions, but who cares? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one takes that propaganda site seriously, why do you post lies?
Click to expand...

To piss you off, Monte, what else??????

Now...... you post from your propaganda sties, alright?
I, or someone else, will actually read and do the necessary research about it.

Go ahead !!!


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beyond that, Nasrallah calls to expand terror operations outside Israel to the entire world:
> 
> Sayyed Nasrallah also emphasized that Hezbollah had repeatedly stressed the principle of coordination between the different Palestinian factions. "We discussed with the Palestinian factions activating the Intifada at home and abroad and providing support for it."
> 
> "Activating an intifada abroad" means Hezbollah is admitting to organizing terror attacks worldwide. We knew this, of course, but they don't normally admit it so explicitly.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Nasrallah brags of Hezbollah getting new weapons and supporting international terrorism. Violating UNSC resolutions, but who cares? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one takes that propaganda site seriously, why do you post lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To piss you off, Monte, what else??????
> 
> Now...... you post from your propaganda sties, alright?
> I, or someone else, will actually read and do the necessary research about it.
> 
> Go ahead !!!
Click to expand...


I never use propaganda sites or link to propaganda sites.  I deal in facts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beyond that, Nasrallah calls to expand terror operations outside Israel to the entire world:
> 
> Sayyed Nasrallah also emphasized that Hezbollah had repeatedly stressed the principle of coordination between the different Palestinian factions. "We discussed with the Palestinian factions activating the Intifada at home and abroad and providing support for it."
> 
> "Activating an intifada abroad" means Hezbollah is admitting to organizing terror attacks worldwide. We knew this, of course, but they don't normally admit it so explicitly.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Nasrallah brags of Hezbollah getting new weapons and supporting international terrorism. Violating UNSC resolutions, but who cares? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one takes that propaganda site seriously, why do you post lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To piss you off, Monte, what else??????
> 
> Now...... you post from your propaganda sties, alright?
> I, or someone else, will actually read and do the necessary research about it.
> 
> Go ahead !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never use propaganda sites or link to propaganda sites.  I deal in facts.
Click to expand...

What are the sources, again, where you only get facts,  to deal with facts?

Uhmmmmmmm


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Shin Bet said it has learned that Iranian intelligence has been using South Africa as a significant center for locating, recruiting and operating agents against Israel in Judea and Samaria.

“I would like to bring it to your attention that Iran is using terrorism against the State of Israel not only with the assistance of terrorist movements such as Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, but is also attempting to organize terrorist actions inside the State of Israel and against the citizens of Israel,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Tuesday.


Read more at Israel Discovers Covert Iranian Intelligence Operation Near Hebron


----------



## Sixties Fan

Keith Ellison Donor: 'Israelis Have to be Bombed,' Only Understand 'Resistance'


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The London-based Arabic newspaper reported that a senior Hamas official in Ramallah said that the terror group would agree to disarm if it can gain PLO representation.

(full article online)

Hamas said prepared to place its weapons under PLO’s control if it can join


----------



## Sixties Fan

This brilliant video explains why the organization continues to exist close to 70 years after its creation.

(vide video online)

WATCH: Why UN Wants ‘Palestinian ‘Refugees’ Around Forever


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Australian guy arranged for some inquiries to be made in Jordan and then got back to us saying his producers had decided not to interview us. Why? Nothing to do with us, he said, but because

it turned out Tamimi's spoken English isn't very good - somehow leading to the conclusion that if she doesn't speak well enough, why bother hearing what the parents of one of her victims (meaning the two of us) have to say. Or more sharply: Our audience is more interested in hearing what the murderer says about the extradition story than what any of her victims think; and 
Tamimi had been told by Jordan's government to lower her profile for a while. In simpler terms (our words) if Jordan was going to stick its finger in the eye of its American strategic ally, protector and benefactor (as it has and as it continues to do), it would be prudent not to publicly flaunt the gift of freedom that King Abdullah has given her. Its good to know that though it likes to call itself a constitutional monarchy, Jordan operates like an absolute monarchy. If King Abdullah wanted Tamimi extradited, she would be have been shipped to Washington the same morning.
Last weekend, in response to the intense media attention on Ahed "Shirley Temper" Tamimi, the Jordanian media reported on a public event that took place in Amman. (For some excellent background, see "_Why Is No One Talking About Ahed Tamimi’s Call For Stabbings?_" in *Forward*, January 4, 2018). Some prominent speakers were in the line-up which was heard by an audience filled with elderly men - and some women.

What caught our eye is that one of the speakers was Ahlam Tamimi, the murderer in the flesh. She appears to have decided to bring the keep-your-head-down phase to an end in order to do the Tamimi thing. And although her extradition was blocked by a Jordanian court ruling on extremely technical grounds (we have written about this several times), no voices in Jordan that we know of have called for Jordan to do something against her. She's a national treasure. Murderer, maybe; but she murdered Jews, so where's the problem?

(Full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 05-Jan-18: In Jordan, the FBI fugitive Ahlam Tamimi (among others) pays tribute to her slapping/taunting/kicking Tamimi cousin


----------



## montelatici

The reason the UN treats Palestinian refugees differently is because the flawed Partition Plan was implemented by the UN.  Hence, the UN caused the refugee problem.  With this in mind, those that had voted against the Partition Plan, and had predicted the disastorous result, had the votes in the UN to implement a special plan for Palestinian refugees.  It's really quite simple. The UN has to right the wrong it caused.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> The Australian guy arranged for some inquiries to be made in Jordan and then got back to us saying his producers had decided not to interview us. Why? Nothing to do with us, he said, but because
> 
> it turned out Tamimi's spoken English isn't very good - somehow leading to the conclusion that if she doesn't speak well enough, why bother hearing what the parents of one of her victims (meaning the two of us) have to say. Or more sharply: Our audience is more interested in hearing what the murderer says about the extradition story than what any of her victims think; and
> Tamimi had been told by Jordan's government to lower her profile for a while. In simpler terms (our words) if Jordan was going to stick its finger in the eye of its American strategic ally, protector and benefactor (as it has and as it continues to do), it would be prudent not to publicly flaunt the gift of freedom that King Abdullah has given her. Its good to know that though it likes to call itself a constitutional monarchy, Jordan operates like an absolute monarchy. If King Abdullah wanted Tamimi extradited, she would be have been shipped to Washington the same morning.
> Last weekend, in response to the intense media attention on Ahed "Shirley Temper" Tamimi, the Jordanian media reported on a public event that took place in Amman. (For some excellent background, see "_Why Is No One Talking About Ahed Tamimi’s Call For Stabbings?_" in *Forward*, January 4, 2018). Some prominent speakers were in the line-up which was heard by an audience filled with elderly men - and some women.
> 
> What caught our eye is that one of the speakers was Ahlam Tamimi, the murderer in the flesh. She appears to have decided to bring the keep-your-head-down phase to an end in order to do the Tamimi thing. And although her extradition was blocked by a Jordanian court ruling on extremely technical grounds (we have written about this several times), no voices in Jordan that we know of have called for Jordan to do something against her. She's a national treasure. Murderer, maybe; but she murdered Jews, so where's the problem?
> 
> (Full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 05-Jan-18: In Jordan, the FBI fugitive Ahlam Tamimi (among others) pays tribute to her slapping/taunting/kicking Tamimi cousin



Jews murder hundreds of Palestinians on an ongoing basis.  Israel will not extradite murderous Jews, why should Jordan extradite Palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Australian guy arranged for some inquiries to be made in Jordan and then got back to us saying his producers had decided not to interview us. Why? Nothing to do with us, he said, but because
> 
> it turned out Tamimi's spoken English isn't very good - somehow leading to the conclusion that if she doesn't speak well enough, why bother hearing what the parents of one of her victims (meaning the two of us) have to say. Or more sharply: Our audience is more interested in hearing what the murderer says about the extradition story than what any of her victims think; and
> Tamimi had been told by Jordan's government to lower her profile for a while. In simpler terms (our words) if Jordan was going to stick its finger in the eye of its American strategic ally, protector and benefactor (as it has and as it continues to do), it would be prudent not to publicly flaunt the gift of freedom that King Abdullah has given her. Its good to know that though it likes to call itself a constitutional monarchy, Jordan operates like an absolute monarchy. If King Abdullah wanted Tamimi extradited, she would be have been shipped to Washington the same morning.
> Last weekend, in response to the intense media attention on Ahed "Shirley Temper" Tamimi, the Jordanian media reported on a public event that took place in Amman. (For some excellent background, see "_Why Is No One Talking About Ahed Tamimi’s Call For Stabbings?_" in *Forward*, January 4, 2018). Some prominent speakers were in the line-up which was heard by an audience filled with elderly men - and some women.
> 
> What caught our eye is that one of the speakers was Ahlam Tamimi, the murderer in the flesh. She appears to have decided to bring the keep-your-head-down phase to an end in order to do the Tamimi thing. And although her extradition was blocked by a Jordanian court ruling on extremely technical grounds (we have written about this several times), no voices in Jordan that we know of have called for Jordan to do something against her. She's a national treasure. Murderer, maybe; but she murdered Jews, so where's the problem?
> 
> (Full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 05-Jan-18: In Jordan, the FBI fugitive Ahlam Tamimi (among others) pays tribute to her slapping/taunting/kicking Tamimi cousin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews murder hundreds of Palestinians on an ongoing basis.  Israel will not extradite murderous Jews, why should Jordan extradite Palestinians?
Click to expand...

Very few words this time, but the evidence of those murderous Jews........

Zilch, nothing, nada, shum  davar


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamci Jihad organized a rally in Gaza to denounce Trump (for the fifth Friday in a row.)

The biggest crowd scene I could find was this one:

(full article online)

Palestinian "rage" demonstrations over Jerusalem are getting smaller and smaller ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Australian guy arranged for some inquiries to be made in Jordan and then got back to us saying his producers had decided not to interview us. Why? Nothing to do with us, he said, but because
> 
> it turned out Tamimi's spoken English isn't very good - somehow leading to the conclusion that if she doesn't speak well enough, why bother hearing what the parents of one of her victims (meaning the two of us) have to say. Or more sharply: Our audience is more interested in hearing what the murderer says about the extradition story than what any of her victims think; and
> Tamimi had been told by Jordan's government to lower her profile for a while. In simpler terms (our words) if Jordan was going to stick its finger in the eye of its American strategic ally, protector and benefactor (as it has and as it continues to do), it would be prudent not to publicly flaunt the gift of freedom that King Abdullah has given her. Its good to know that though it likes to call itself a constitutional monarchy, Jordan operates like an absolute monarchy. If King Abdullah wanted Tamimi extradited, she would be have been shipped to Washington the same morning.
> Last weekend, in response to the intense media attention on Ahed "Shirley Temper" Tamimi, the Jordanian media reported on a public event that took place in Amman. (For some excellent background, see "_Why Is No One Talking About Ahed Tamimi’s Call For Stabbings?_" in *Forward*, January 4, 2018). Some prominent speakers were in the line-up which was heard by an audience filled with elderly men - and some women.
> 
> What caught our eye is that one of the speakers was Ahlam Tamimi, the murderer in the flesh. She appears to have decided to bring the keep-your-head-down phase to an end in order to do the Tamimi thing. And although her extradition was blocked by a Jordanian court ruling on extremely technical grounds (we have written about this several times), no voices in Jordan that we know of have called for Jordan to do something against her. She's a national treasure. Murderer, maybe; but she murdered Jews, so where's the problem?
> 
> (Full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 05-Jan-18: In Jordan, the FBI fugitive Ahlam Tamimi (among others) pays tribute to her slapping/taunting/kicking Tamimi cousin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews murder hundreds of Palestinians on an ongoing basis.  Israel will not extradite murderous Jews, why should Jordan extradite Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few words this time, but the evidence of those murderous Jews........
> 
> Zilch, nothing, nada, shum  davar
Click to expand...


Just facts, bozo.

"The UN says at least 2,104 Palestinian died, including 1,462 civilians, of whom 495 were children and 253 women."

Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Australian guy arranged for some inquiries to be made in Jordan and then got back to us saying his producers had decided not to interview us. Why? Nothing to do with us, he said, but because
> 
> it turned out Tamimi's spoken English isn't very good - somehow leading to the conclusion that if she doesn't speak well enough, why bother hearing what the parents of one of her victims (meaning the two of us) have to say. Or more sharply: Our audience is more interested in hearing what the murderer says about the extradition story than what any of her victims think; and
> Tamimi had been told by Jordan's government to lower her profile for a while. In simpler terms (our words) if Jordan was going to stick its finger in the eye of its American strategic ally, protector and benefactor (as it has and as it continues to do), it would be prudent not to publicly flaunt the gift of freedom that King Abdullah has given her. Its good to know that though it likes to call itself a constitutional monarchy, Jordan operates like an absolute monarchy. If King Abdullah wanted Tamimi extradited, she would be have been shipped to Washington the same morning.
> Last weekend, in response to the intense media attention on Ahed "Shirley Temper" Tamimi, the Jordanian media reported on a public event that took place in Amman. (For some excellent background, see "_Why Is No One Talking About Ahed Tamimi’s Call For Stabbings?_" in *Forward*, January 4, 2018). Some prominent speakers were in the line-up which was heard by an audience filled with elderly men - and some women.
> 
> What caught our eye is that one of the speakers was Ahlam Tamimi, the murderer in the flesh. She appears to have decided to bring the keep-your-head-down phase to an end in order to do the Tamimi thing. And although her extradition was blocked by a Jordanian court ruling on extremely technical grounds (we have written about this several times), no voices in Jordan that we know of have called for Jordan to do something against her. She's a national treasure. Murderer, maybe; but she murdered Jews, so where's the problem?
> 
> (Full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 05-Jan-18: In Jordan, the FBI fugitive Ahlam Tamimi (among others) pays tribute to her slapping/taunting/kicking Tamimi cousin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews murder hundreds of Palestinians on an ongoing basis.  Israel will not extradite murderous Jews, why should Jordan extradite Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few words this time, but the evidence of those murderous Jews........
> 
> Zilch, nothing, nada, shum  davar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts, bozo.
> 
> "The UN says at least 2,104 Palestinian died, including 1,462 civilians, of whom 495 were children and 253 women."
> 
> Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza
Click to expand...

Your source is the UN.  ROTFLOL

The UN post 1967 which has been taken over by every Muslim, Arab and Christian country which hates Jews, aka.....Israel.

Try another source. One which will give the cause and effect of firing in civilian areas, hiding in civilian areas, and making civilians become Martyrs while they stay in a house which Israel had warned was going to be hit, and for all civilians to move out.

"Long live the Martyrs or Islam, as it always ALL about how Islam is superior to other religions and how those dog Jews have no right to any part of what is forever considered Muslim land since they conquered the area 1400 years ago. "

Go ahead Palestinians. Put yourself in harms way for Allah.  Always.
Because those are the consequences since Muslims give NO VALUE at all to life, much less those they can put in harms way.


----------



## Sixties Fan

But the most interesting part is that the Israel haters are trying to get some interest in a bill before Congress called H.R.4391 - Promoting Human Rights by Ending Israeli Military Detention of Palestinian Children Act.

Under Palestinian law, Ahed Tamimi is an adult. And Israeli military law in the territories also considers 16 year olds to be adults.

But when Israel says it, it is a violation of human rights for children. When Palestinians say it....it is not even worth mentioning.

How many Arabs are in Palestinian jails between 16-18? No one knows....becauseno one cares. 

Hundreds of Arabs report being abused and tortured in Palestinian jails every year. The "pro-Palestinian" activists are silent.

(full article online)

Hypocrites decry Israel detaining "child" Ahed Tamimi - but she's a legal adult in "Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hundreds of Arabs report being abused and tortured in Palestinian jails every year. The "pro-Palestinian" activists are silent.


I have posted about that many times.

Palestinians mention it regularly.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the 1990s, international aid groups started looking at the bigger picture as they do their services. They realized that providing aid in a vacuum can cause other problems in the areas that they are trying to help.

One of the major potential issues is summarized here:

 "Aid is not neutral in the midst of conflict. Aid and how it is administered can cause harm or can strengthen peace capacities in the midst of conflicted communities. All aid programmes involve the transfer of resources (food, shelter, water, health care, training, etc.) into a resource-scarce environment. Where people are in conflict, these resources represent power and wealth and they become an element of the conflict. Some people attempt to control and use aid resources to support their side of the conflict and to weaken the other side. If they are successful or if aid staff fail to recognise the impact of their programming decisions, aid can cause harm. As a result, aid agencies have been incorporating the "Do No Harm" and "Conflict Sensitivity" framework in all of their activities, to be more sensitive to how their actions impact not only the intended recipients of aid, but also the surrounding people."

UNRWA ignores the concept.

(full article online)

How @UNRWA violates the most basic rule of NGOs: "Do No Harm" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Unlike UNRWA, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has been properly tasked with ending the plight of refugees, but UNRWA has perpetuated the status of refugees and has been essentially tasked of ensuring the Palestinians remain displaced. There is not other agency in the world that does that.

The U.N. has never asked that Hindus be allowed back to Pakistan or that Greek Cypriots be allowed back to the Turkish-controlled Cyprus, nor has insisted that Muslims be allowed to return to Bulgaria after being expelled.

Over the years, tens of millions of refugees from a whole host of ethnicities have been resettled in their new countries and rebuilt their lives.

But the sanity ends when the refugees – I mean the descendants of refugees – want to "return" to Tiberias, Lod, Nazareth, Acre, or Jaffa. In a way, UNRWA has created a lineage of displacement, almost genetic, that passes from father to son, and from one generation to the next.

(full article online)

UNRWA – the great refugee charade – Israel Hayom


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite ongoing attacks on Israel from Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, Israel restores 50 megawatt supply to Gaza.

(full article online)

Israel restores power transfers to Gaza


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## Sixties Fan

“Is UNRWA creating refugees,” Lapid asked at the time.

The shocking answer to Lapid’s last question finally came last week when the Lebanese Central Administration of Statistics and the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics released a census among Palestinian Arabs living in Lebanon.

The census revealed that only 174,422 Palestinian refugees and their descendants are living in UNRWA camps and Palestinian communities in Lebanon while the UN body claims that their number is about 450,000.

Saad Hariri, the Prime Minister of Lebanon, said after the publication of the data that the census ended all speculation about the exact number of Palestinian refugees in Lebanese UNRWA camps and villages but at the same time demanded an increase in aid to the UN organization.

Hariri also vowed Lebanon would never grant citizenship to the Palestinian refugees and demanded they return to Israel under the non-existing "right of return."

Observers in Israel now demand to know how donor money to UNRWA Lebanon was spent, since the annual budget of each UNRWA branch is based on the number of refugees it takes care of.

If you still doubt something is rotten in the wheelings and dealings of UNRWA, just consider this: UNRWA in Gaza has 12,500 employees who care for just 1.3 million 'refugees'.

The UNHCR, the other UN agency which cares for 22.5 million real refugees worldwide does so with a staff with of only 10,966 employees and a budget of $7.7 billion (2017).

This brings us back to the question if cutting US aid to UNRWA would cause a humanitarian catastrophe among Palestinian Arabs.

The answer is obviously that it would not, because one doesn’t have to be a genius to understand that UNRWA is wasting money (Gaza) and is inflating the number of refugees under its care.

(full article online)

Analysis: Cutting UNRWA aid will not cause a humanitarian crisis


----------



## Sixties Fan

We've discussed Ibrahim Abu Thurayeh, the Gaza double-amputee who regularly protested at the Gaza border with Israel without any incident.

The day before he was killed, he asked his family forgiveness and said he was sick of his life.

Here is his brother describing their last dinner together.

(full article online)

WATCH: Video of Gaza double amputee's brother describing how Ibrahim planned to die on the day he was shot ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why Israel uses checkpoints.

In 2016, over 30,000 people from the Gaza received medical treatment in Israel.  Over 7,000 tons of medical supplies were transferred to hospitals and clinics in the Gaza Strip.  Emergency ambulances were on-call 24 hours, 7 days a week at the Erez Crossing.  Israel takes its humanitarian obligations  to the people of Gaza very seriously.  Even when rockets targeting  Israeli civilians are launched from Gaza, the humanitarian aid continues to flow to Gaza.

Leave it to Hamas to take advantage of Israel's largese.

According to COGAT ( Israel's Coordination of Government activiities in the territories):

_Marwan Abu Rida, an ambulance driver for the Red Crescent, has been using his position to exploit patients seeking medical treatment in Israel for terrorist organizations._

(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Abuse of Power. Gaza ambulance driver puts patients at risk


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA TV host concurs: 
"We will come out at you from where you won't expect it. We will come out at you from underground, from above ground, from every burrow, from every angle because we have a right"*

*Two senior Fatah officials also posted song encouraging terror: "I'm coming with my rifle and my faith. I'm coming towards you, my enemy. Our war is a war of the streets" *
*Fatah poster shows young Palestinian with rocket launcher: "From my wounds, my weapon has emerged"*
**
Using music to incite murder, on PA TV - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Maybe....just maybe......it is time for these indigenous Greeks who do not respect the indigenous people of the Holy Land,  to return to..... what is it called......Greece......]

Jews have always lived in all the quarters of the Old City. The quarters were never exclusive to one group. The idea that Jews cannot legally purchase buildings in any part of the city is, to be blunt, antisemitic. The "status quo" doesn't mean that the Old City must look exactly as it did in 1967 or 1167.

The idea that Jews purchasing buildings is a threat to all Christians in the Holy Land is an insult, plai and simple. And so is the slander that Jews are attempting to make Jerusalem exclusively Jewish.

I don't recall the Greek Orthodox Church complaining about the "status quo" when Jordan ensured that no Jews could even visit the Old City.

(full article online)

Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem says Jews are the only threat to Christians in the Holy Land ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Palestine News Network:

 Hundreds of Palestinians unable to travel staged a protest in front of the Rafah Border Crossing calling upon the Palestinian Authority and Egypt to open the crossing, at least for students and humanitarian cases.

“We came here to send a message to the Palestinian government of national accord, as well as the Egyptian authorities, that it is necessary to open the Rafah Crossing for emergency humanitarian cases and students,” explained student Mohammed Nabil.

(full article online)

The Egyptian and PA  siege of Gaza continues ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

In 1950, UNRWA offered to help both Jewish and Arab refugees from the war inside Israel. Here is how UNRWA reported on Israel's reaction:

 REFUGEES IN ISRAEL

"30. In Israel, the Agency has provided relief to two types of refugees, Jews who fled inside the borders of Israel during the fighting, and Arabs in most instances displaced from one area in Palestine to another. Jewish refugees at first numbered 17,000 but, during the current summer, all but 3,000 of these have been absorbed into the economic life of the new State. Arabs on relief were first numbered at 31,000 but many have been placed in circumstances in which they are self-supporting, so that it was possible to reduce the number to 24,000 at the end of August 1950.
31. Recent discussions with the Israel Government indicate that the idea of relief distribution is repugnant to it, and the Agency was informed that already many of the 24,000 remaining refugees were employed and that all able-bodied refugees desiring employment could be absorbed on works projects if they would register at the government registry offices for that purpose. It was stated that they all have status as citizens of Israel and are entitled to treatment as such. It was claimed that after cessation of relief, aged and infirm refugees would be cared for under the normal social welfare machinery of Israel. The Agency was requested to share financially in a programme of re-establishment of displaced Arabs now within the boundaries of Israel."
--------
Israel, a newly sovereign nation with crippling debts, felt that the idea of having a UN agency in its borders doing the job of the state in taking care of its citizens was "repugnant." It created a plan to integrate all refugees, Jewish and Arab, into the state. It would accept monetary aid but not a parallel social infrastructure.

The contrast between 2 year old Israel and a 20-odd year old Palestinian Authority could not be more striking.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority cabinet rejects idea of defunding UNRWA, preferring to keep its own people in camps ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Another difference between Ahed Tamimi and Yifat Alkobi is that the Tamimi family is well known for its terrorist connections and loving aunt, Ahlam, was responsible for the Sbarro pizza place bombing and proud of having killed children. Ahed openly supports murdering Jews. The Alkobi family, on the other hand, has no connections with terrorists and they are working for the survival of the Jewish community in a place where Jews have always lived (except when Hebron was under Jordanian occupation).

(full article online)

Saying Tamimi And Alkobi In The Same Sentence Should Upset Your Stomach - Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Spends More Than NIS 1 Billion in Terrorist Payouts in 2017 | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | TPS / Tazpit News Agency | 23 Tevet 5778 – January 9, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

When later this month Netanyahu meets Modi in Delhi, India’s UN vote and Abu Ali’s embrace of Saeed will be on the agenda. And there is good reason to believe that Modi will recognize the linkage and vote differently in the future. Like Netanyahu, he recognizes that the PLO’s basic case is wrong. Peace is achieved by defeating terrorists, not by empowering them.

Moreover, Israel beckons. The economic and strategic realities of Israel cannot be ignored. Modi and his counterparts worldwide are now recognizing that the Palestinians have nothing to offer them, not even gratitude. When a critical mass of Palestinians recognize that the PLO’s jig is up, they will make peace with Israel. Until then, they will continue to serve as an irritating irrelevancy and nothing more.

(full article online)

Our World: The Palestinians’ race to the bottom


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror incitement broadcasts from past PA terror campaigns 
were rebroadcast last month at least 46 times by the PA

Official PA TV rebroadcasts 41 times Abbas' call to prevent Jews "in any way" from "defiling our holy places," which in 2014 was broadcast 32 times during the Palestinian terror wave in which 12 Israelis were murdered 

Song calling for murder repeatedly broadcast by official PA TV in 2000 when the PA launched its terror campaign - the second Intifada - has also been broadcast again 5 times

There was a dramatic rise of Palestinian terror attacks during December: from 84 in Nov. 2017, to 249 in Dec. 2017, according to the Israeli Security Agency 

(full article online)

Is the PA trying to launch a new terror campaign? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

As for Jerusalem, Johnson was right in his first statement. The status of Jerusalem will be determined by the involved parties and until the Palestinians are interested in peace, the status quo will remain. Jerusalem was, is, and will be, the eternal capital of the Jewish people. In truth, what most Israelis know is that this will never change. Life is good. The sun shines on the ancient stones of Jerusalem. Abbas smirks in Europe. The British chase their tails. And in the capital of Israel, we fill the streets, the cafes, the shops and the markets. For Israel, there is little to worry about.

(full article online)

Abbas Laughs His Way Thru London


----------



## Sixties Fan

A new umbrella organization linked to the Palestinian Authority bringing together several Arab bodies has been running an unprecedented incitement campaign in Judea and Samaria for several days.

The organization paid for large billboard space encouraging terrorists to disrupt the peace and throw rocks at Jews.

Otzma Yehudit movement Executive Director Zvi Sukkot and other Jewish activists surprised to see both the campaign itself and enforcement authority's inaction decided to remove an incitement billboard that was placed next to the town of Eli in Samaria, along with signs in other places.

(full article online)

Watch: Activists remove terror-inciting ads in Judea and Samaria


----------



## jillian

Sixties Fan said:


> A new umbrella organization linked to the Palestinian Authority bringing together several Arab bodies has been running an unprecedented incitement campaign in Judea and Samaria for several days.
> 
> The organization paid for large billboard space encouraging terrorists to disrupt the peace and throw rocks at Jews.
> 
> Otzma Yehudit movement Executive Director Zvi Sukkot and other Jewish activists surprised to see both the campaign itself and enforcement authority's inaction decided to remove an incitement billboard that was placed next to the town of Eli in Samaria, along with signs in other places.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Activists remove terror-inciting ads in Judea and Samaria



Judea and Samaria? You mean Israel, right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

jillian said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A new umbrella organization linked to the Palestinian Authority bringing together several Arab bodies has been running an unprecedented incitement campaign in Judea and Samaria for several days.
> 
> The organization paid for large billboard space encouraging terrorists to disrupt the peace and throw rocks at Jews.
> 
> Otzma Yehudit movement Executive Director Zvi Sukkot and other Jewish activists surprised to see both the campaign itself and enforcement authority's inaction decided to remove an incitement billboard that was placed next to the town of Eli in Samaria, along with signs in other places.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Activists remove terror-inciting ads in Judea and Samaria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judea and Samaria? You mean Israel, right?
Click to expand...

It was in area C of Judea and Samaria.  It has not been annexed into Israel, yet due to the conflict and other things.


----------



## jillian

Sixties Fan said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A new umbrella organization linked to the Palestinian Authority bringing together several Arab bodies has been running an unprecedented incitement campaign in Judea and Samaria for several days.
> 
> The organization paid for large billboard space encouraging terrorists to disrupt the peace and throw rocks at Jews.
> 
> Otzma Yehudit movement Executive Director Zvi Sukkot and other Jewish activists surprised to see both the campaign itself and enforcement authority's inaction decided to remove an incitement billboard that was placed next to the town of Eli in Samaria, along with signs in other places.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Activists remove terror-inciting ads in Judea and Samaria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judea and Samaria? You mean Israel, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in area C of Judea and Samaria.  It has not been annexed into Israel, yet due to the conflict and other things.
Click to expand...


ok. what area are you actually referring to? Sorry.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

jillian said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A new umbrella organization linked to the Palestinian Authority bringing together several Arab bodies has been running an unprecedented incitement campaign in Judea and Samaria for several days.
> 
> The organization paid for large billboard space encouraging terrorists to disrupt the peace and throw rocks at Jews.
> 
> Otzma Yehudit movement Executive Director Zvi Sukkot and other Jewish activists surprised to see both the campaign itself and enforcement authority's inaction decided to remove an incitement billboard that was placed next to the town of Eli in Samaria, along with signs in other places.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Activists remove terror-inciting ads in Judea and Samaria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judea and Samaria? You mean Israel, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was in area C of Judea and Samaria.  It has not been annexed into Israel, yet due to the conflict and other things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ok. what area are you actually referring to? Sorry.
Click to expand...



I think he just said it was Area C of Judea and Samaria.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

A pretty accurate political cartoon about Gaza from a Hamas newspaper ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A Muslim telling the truth about "Palestinian Land"  ]

Abdullah Khadra: "Our first _qibla_, dear brothers and sisters – it is not new that it is under occupation since 1967. It is not new that the other parts, the neighboring parts of Al-Quds, which is Palestine – Jaffa, Acre, and Haifa, those cities that have now been changed in their names and their people... We should never ever forget that this is a Muslim land."







[...]

"We should teach our children that it is our land and will remain our land, and will return to us sooner or later. But the question is: Will you be among those who will contribute to regaining it or not?"

(full article online)

Sermon In Raleigh, North Carolina-Area Mosque: 'Al-Quds [Jerusalem]... Jaffa, Acre, And Haifa... It Is Our Land... And Will Return To Us'; 'We Will Fight Those Jews Until The Rocks And The Trees' Say 'Oh Muslim, This Is A Jew Behind Me'; 'Those Occupiers Made Some Legends' About The 'Wall Of Buraq' And 'Made It Their Own Wall' And 'Distorted The Facts'


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Thamer Mashineesh, the president of the Iraqi Palestinians Association, told Al-Monitor, “The Iraqi law ends the permanent residency of Palestinians in Iraq, so they are now required to renew their residency through consulting the official agencies. They could risk being expelled from Iraq if they were to commit any violation. This could threaten their rights to compulsory and university education, which evidently affects their education and gradually turns them into an ignorant community. In addition, all health care services would decline and they would be unable to pay for expensive surgeries, increasing their daily suffering.”

A law specifically targeting and discriminating against Palestinians.

In an Arab country.

Which has been mentioned in Arabic news media for nearly three weeks.

And this is the first English language article I've seen about it.

(Full article online)

Iraq strips Palestinians of their rights. NGOs silent. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lasky is also one of the founders of Peace Now, one of the left-wing organizations that fund and support the Tamimi family and are now trying to portray her as an innocent child struggling with the occupation. In fact, she is simply a new stage in the Arab aspiration to delegitimize Israel and bring about its elimination by incessantly inciting against Jews .

So the next time you see another masterpiece, courtesy of Tamimi Productions, remember the dynasty of terror and hatred that these young women, who have become heroines in Arab society, have grown up with, and you will understand again what kind of enemy we are facing and what its real intentions are.

(full article online)

The Tamimi Family - a Dynasty of Arab Terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Lasky is also one of the founders of Peace Now, one of the left-wing organizations that fund and support the Tamimi family and are now trying to portray her as an innocent child struggling with the occupation. In fact, she is simply a new stage in the Arab aspiration to delegitimize Israel and bring about its elimination by incessantly inciting against Jews .
> 
> So the next time you see another masterpiece, courtesy of Tamimi Productions, remember the dynasty of terror and hatred that these young women, who have become heroines in Arab society, have grown up with, and you will understand again what kind of enemy we are facing and what its real intentions are.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Tamimi Family - a Dynasty of Arab Terrorists


Israel is freaking out about girls.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Only a few hours after Palestinian terrorists shot and murdered an Israeli man in a drive-by shooting near Nablus, Fatah glorified the murder in a post on Facebook, which presented the attack as a successful "operation" measured in figures: 



Posted text: 
"The Nablus operation in numbers:
The full duration of the operation: 30 seconds
The distance between the cars: 20 meters
The number of bullets that were fired: 22
The one who carried out the operation was skilled and experienced, and escaped the site
The result: a killed settler"
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Jan. 10, 2018]

(full article online)

Fatah celebrates “a killed settler” - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 10-Jan-18: Hamas praises a murderous drive-by shooting that orphans six young Israeli children


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Only a few hours after Palestinian terrorists shot and murdered an Israeli man in a drive-by shooting near Nablus, Fatah glorified the murder in a post on Facebook, which presented the attack as a successful "operation" measured in figures:
> 
> 
> 
> Posted text:
> "The Nablus operation in numbers:
> The full duration of the operation: 30 seconds
> The distance between the cars: 20 meters
> The number of bullets that were fired: 22
> The one who carried out the operation was skilled and experienced, and escaped the site
> The result: a killed settler"
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Jan. 10, 2018]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah celebrates “a killed settler” - PMW Bulletins


What was he doing in Palestine?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a few hours after Palestinian terrorists shot and murdered an Israeli man in a drive-by shooting near Nablus, Fatah glorified the murder in a post on Facebook, which presented the attack as a successful "operation" measured in figures:
> 
> 
> 
> Posted text:
> "The Nablus operation in numbers:
> The full duration of the operation: 30 seconds
> The distance between the cars: 20 meters
> The number of bullets that were fired: 22
> The one who carried out the operation was skilled and experienced, and escaped the site
> The result: a killed settler"
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Jan. 10, 2018]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah celebrates “a killed settler” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> What was he doing in Palestine?
Click to expand...


Of course. You Islamic fascists insist on a Jew free West Bank, Gaza, and anywhere else Islamic fascists congregate.


----------



## Hollie

Just when you think that Arabs-Moslems can’t get any more whacked-out, full-blown, over the rainbow, ain't comin' back loopy, they find a way to set human existence back a few more centuries.

Gaza’s next war looms as ISIS vows to overthrow Hamas in execution video

GAZA’S NEXT WAR: ISIS VOWS TO OVERTHROW RADICAL RIVAL HAMAS FOR FAILING TO STOP TRUMP. 

The Egyptian wing of the Islamic State militant group (ISIS) has declared war on Hamas for failing to stop President Donald Trump’s Jerusalem declaration, in a new propaganda video released Wednesday that purports to show the execution of a man who ISIS claims worked with the Palestinian militant group’s armed wing. 





In anticipation of how competing Islamic terrorist franchises can and do, willingly gee-had the bezeezus out of each other, this could be even more fun and games than the hamas vs. fatah slug-fest.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine refugee funding: Align UN with US law


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the 1948 war the Arab Liberation Army suffered a crippling defeat. The Arab League refused to accept defeat and, to save its reputation, decided to demand the implementation of the principle “status quo ante bellum.” Meaning to restore the Palestinian refugees to their homes.


The United Nations embraced the League’s demand and created a special UN agency – the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). The goal was not to rehabilitate the refugees, but rather to render the League refugees state services, like health, welfare and education.

Had the question of rehabilitation been on the agenda, the UN would have decided to let the International Refugee Organization (IRO – established in 1944) to take care of the Palestinian refugees.

Thus, the UN created a political unit/ entity of its own – UNRWA. A political Palestinian semi-entity, ruled by Arab states and/or organizations, depending on the location. Despite the fact that this political entity enjoys UN immunity, it is controlled by the PLO.

(full article online)

UNRWA – end the UN state


----------



## Sixties Fan

NYT anoints Hamas as a "national movement" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Mordechai also said the Palestinian Authority's (PA) budget is currently 15 billion NIS ($4,673,920). Until five years ago, 30% of the budget depended on external aid from Western countries. However, external aid has dropped by fifty percent, since the world began to understand that the Oslo Accords had not accomplished their purpose, and the money was not providing dividends.

Between the Oslo Accords (signed in 1993 and 1995) and 2014, the world provided the PA $16 billion.

"Think about what would have happened if this money was invested in developing infrastructure and places of employment," Mordechai noted. "This money currently goes to a bloated public system, more than a bit of corruption, and recently, we have heard about it being used to pay the families of imprisoned and dead terrorists, despite the fact that this is not legal."

(full article online)

'PA economy is completely dependent on Israel'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rev. Sara is saying that if his fellow evangelists we want to convert Muslims to Christianity - which is their main concern - then they cannot be seen as being pro-Israel, or else their job is twice as hard!

This is not a new concern for right wing Christians. Many were opposed to any part of Jerusalem being under Jewish control in 1948 for similar reasons - that Jewish control of the city would make it more difficult for them to convert Muslims.

But the underlying theme, whether Sara admits it or not, is that without antisemitism, the Arabs won't listen to the message of Christ.

(full article online)

A Palestinian Christian tries to convince American Christian evangelists to oppose Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is why security is so important]

[ Bringing weapons into a Holy Site to murder people.  This is Islam, and these are the Palestinians ]

Three Arab women suspected of plotting a stabbing attack in Hevron were arrested Thursday.

Border Police officers arrested the three women Thursday afternoon at checkpoint at the entrance to the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

The three suspects were arrested for apparently planning a stabbing attack on Israeli security forces. Border Police officers found a knife concealed on the person of one of the three suspects as the group attempted to pass through the security check.

(full article online)

Stabbing attack foiled near Tomb of the Patriarchs


----------



## Sixties Fan

After a stint in the Ottoman Army, al-Husseini worked as an Arabic translator for Reuters Press Service. According to Richard Rubenstein's 2011 work _Jihad and Genocide_, I.A. Abbady, a Jewish scholar who worked as al-Husseini's Hebrew translating counterpart, later recalled the young man's promises to massacre Zionists “to the last man. We want no progress, no prosperity [from Jewish immigration]. Nothing but the sword will decide the future of this country.”

Al-Husseini was true to his word. On April 4 and 5, 1920, the first _intifada _(uprising) against British rule occurred in Mandate Palestine. Responding to wall posters in the city's Muslim quarter exhorting readers to “Kill the Jews: There is no punishment for killing Jews,” the city's Arab residents attacked Jewish men, women and children.

Although the British held al-Husseini responsible for inciting the violence, he was later pardoned and appointed to the position of mufti of Jerusalem; the highest Muslim cleric in the land. Although there were other competitors for the post—including many who were less virulently antisemitic—the British were persuaded to help al-Husseini get appointed. As Dalin and Rothmann note, “With his election, radical Islam would prevail over more moderate Islamic voices within the Palestinian Arab community.”

Indeed, the Mufti repaid the favor by playing a double game against the ruling British power and continuing to foment anti-Jewish violence, such as the 1929 Hebron massacre in which 133 Jews were murdered and 339 were wounded. The British response was to often appease al-Husseini, who continued to reject political or social equality with Jews—including a 1937 Peel Commission recommendation that would have given 85% of the land west of the Jordan River to Arabs.

The Mufti saw kindred spirits with the rise of Hitler and European fascism. With aid from Nazi ally Fascist Italy, al-Husseini supported terror attacks against Jews living in Mandate Palestine.

(full article online)

CAMERA: CAMERA Op-Ed: An Overlooked Legacy of Arab Rejectionism


----------



## Sixties Fan

A POWERFUL Commons committee is to consider launching an inquiry into the way the Palestinian Authority is giving British taxpayers’ money to terrorists in prison.

(full article online)

Brit woman attacked by Palestinian terrorists demands probe as UK aid ‘used on prisoners'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Mordechai also said the Palestinian Authority's (PA) budget is currently 15 billion NIS ($4,673,920). Until five years ago, 30% of the budget depended on external aid from Western countries. However, external aid has dropped by fifty percent, since the world began to understand that the Oslo Accords had not accomplished their purpose, and the money was not providing dividends.
> 
> Between the Oslo Accords (signed in 1993 and 1995) and 2014, the world provided the PA $16 billion.
> 
> "Think about what would have happened if this money was invested in developing infrastructure and places of employment," Mordechai noted. "This money currently goes to a bloated public system, more than a bit of corruption, and recently, we have heard about it being used to pay the families of imprisoned and dead terrorists, despite the fact that this is not legal."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'PA economy is completely dependent on Israel'


Indeed, virtually nothing is given for economic development.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mordechai also said the Palestinian Authority's (PA) budget is currently 15 billion NIS ($4,673,920). Until five years ago, 30% of the budget depended on external aid from Western countries. However, external aid has dropped by fifty percent, since the world began to understand that the Oslo Accords had not accomplished their purpose, and the money was not providing dividends.
> 
> Between the Oslo Accords (signed in 1993 and 1995) and 2014, the world provided the PA $16 billion.
> 
> "Think about what would have happened if this money was invested in developing infrastructure and places of employment," Mordechai noted. "This money currently goes to a bloated public system, more than a bit of corruption, and recently, we have heard about it being used to pay the families of imprisoned and dead terrorists, despite the fact that this is not legal."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'PA economy is completely dependent on Israel'
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, virtually nothing is given for economic development.
Click to expand...



Because the money is used to pay families of terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA was formed as an interim governing body by the 1993 Oslo Accords—signed by then-prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and previous PLO chief Yasser Arafat—and was meant to be dissolved after no later than five years as part of a final peace agreement.

Two-and-a-half decades later, the PLO is now threatening to do just that, which, in its view, would release the Palestinians from political obligations stipulated in agreements with Israel.

According to PLO Executive Committee member Ahmed Majdalani, Israel "didn’t commit to any of the terms," thereby effectively absolving the PA of its responsibilities. "I believe we are late in making these decisions and implementing them," he told The Media Line, "which has created a gap between the Palestinian leadership and the Palestinian people."

(full article online)

PLO moves to withdraw recognition of, cut ties to Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> NYT anoints Hamas as a "national movement" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> NYT anoints Hamas as a "national movement" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...

Indeed, a collection of Islamic terrorist misfits.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The PA was formed as an interim governing body by the 1993 Oslo Accords—signed by then-prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and previous PLO chief Yasser Arafat—and was meant to be dissolved after no later than five years as part of a final peace agreement.
> 
> Two-and-a-half decades later, the PLO is now threatening to do just that, which, in its view, would release the Palestinians from political obligations stipulated in agreements with Israel.
> 
> According to PLO Executive Committee member Ahmed Majdalani, Israel "didn’t commit to any of the terms," thereby effectively absolving the PA of its responsibilities. "I believe we are late in making these decisions and implementing them," he told The Media Line, "which has created a gap between the Palestinian leadership and the Palestinian people."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO moves to withdraw recognition of, cut ties to Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

How a society treats strangers in need can be very revealing.

(full article online)

How to treat strangers in need: Israeli version, Palestinian version


----------



## Sixties Fan

After Arafat died in November 2004 and Abbas ascended to the presidency in January 2005, Abbas elevated Fayyad’s institution-building platform to a top national priority. Yet, Abbas also brought with him his own distinct style of nepotism. When Fayyad’s reform agenda ran too close to home – particularly when he challenged Abbas’ bid for statehood the United Nations – he was unceremoniously forced out. 

Admittedly, Abbas’ one earnest experiment in political reform was a failure. He pledged to hold legislative elections in his inaugural address in 2005, yet those elections saw Palestinians vote for his rivals in Hamas. Those elections fueled a civil war in 2007 in which Abbas lost the Gaza Strip, a seismic shock that has dictated his presidency since. 

Abbas has since increasingly clamped down on civil society, freedom of expression, and the activities of his political rivals. When thousands of PA teachers took to the streets to protest their working conditions, Abbas’ PA forces jailed the leaders and blocked their protest routes. When criticism of his presidency rapidly expanded online, Abbas enacted a draconian cybercrimes legislation that allows him to arrest anyone criticizing him on social media. And when members of his own Fatah faction have challenged his rule, he summarily purged them from the party’s organs. 

(full article online)

Thirteen Years into the Abbas Presidency, Corruption and Autocracy Dominate the West Bank |  			 				Foundation for Defense of Democracies


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA sees no need to take care of the refugees, since foreign taxpayers via UNRWA and other organizations are doing it for them. On the contrary, the “refugees” are more useful to the PA than having citizens in their would-be state who would have to be funded.

Only Palestinians can hold citizenship and refugee status at the same time. Are the Palestinians who make up a significant proportion of Jordan’s population, for example, really refugees if they have homes, passports and voting rights? 

The number of the Palestinian refugees keeps on growing. UNRWA itself says that in 1948 “more than 700,000 Palestine refugees [were] displaced as a result of the first Arab-Israeli war.” Naturally, it does not mention who started that war.

UNRWA now claims to care for “five million Palestinian refugees and their descendants living in the Middle East, including the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.” The word “descendants” makes a world of difference. Had UNRWA’s goals included facilitating the absorption of the “refugees,” by now there would be only a few thousands left who needed help – not millions more. But UNRWA’s mandate to resettle the Palestinian refugees was rescinded in 1965.

(full article online)

My Word: UNRWA’s unsettling impact


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Fahrud, when Arabs did not need an excuse to kill Jews and an Arab from Mandate for Palestine went to Iraq to incite against the Jews ]

An examination of the historical background reveals the Farhud’s causes: the opposing interests of the Iraqi government and the British Empire, Nazi Germany’s influence, internal Arab movements, and a struggle between groups of Iraqi intellectuals. The unfortunate Jews were caught in the middle.

(full article online)

Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab and Muslim Countries: How a pro-Nazi pogrom triggered the exodus from Iraq


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The PA sees no need to take care of the refugees, since foreign taxpayers via UNRWA and other organizations are doing it for them. On the contrary, the “refugees” are more useful to the PA than having citizens in their would-be state who would have to be funded.
> 
> Only Palestinians can hold citizenship and refugee status at the same time. Are the Palestinians who make up a significant proportion of Jordan’s population, for example, really refugees if they have homes, passports and voting rights?
> 
> The number of the Palestinian refugees keeps on growing. UNRWA itself says that in 1948 “more than 700,000 Palestine refugees [were] displaced as a result of the first Arab-Israeli war.” Naturally, it does not mention who started that war.
> 
> UNRWA now claims to care for “five million Palestinian refugees and their descendants living in the Middle East, including the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.” The word “descendants” makes a world of difference. Had UNRWA’s goals included facilitating the absorption of the “refugees,” by now there would be only a few thousands left who needed help – not millions more. But UNRWA’s mandate to resettle the Palestinian refugees was rescinded in 1965.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Word: UNRWA’s unsettling impact



The re-defining of the idea of "refugee" is one of the insidious and dangerous of the Arab Palestinians demands.  It completely re-writes former definitions, and applies the new definition uniquely to the Arab Palestinians.  (They argue that the Arab Palestinian situation is somehow unique, but no, its not. Actually, I take that back.  The Arab Palestinian situation is unique as they are the only peoples ever to claim that a competing indigenous or long term peoples must be prevented from having sovereignty over territory.)

According to the 1951 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugee a refugee is defined as:

_"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."_

If we were to properly adhere to the refugee definition, it would mean that:

Anyone inside the international borders of "Palestine/Israel" is not a refugee, as they are inside their country of nationality.

Anyone with another nationality is not a refugee, as they are inside their country of nationality, or able to avail themselves of their nationality.  


The question then -- How many actual Arab Palestinian refugees ARE there?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PA sees no need to take care of the refugees, since foreign taxpayers via UNRWA and other organizations are doing it for them. On the contrary, the “refugees” are more useful to the PA than having citizens in their would-be state who would have to be funded.
> 
> Only Palestinians can hold citizenship and refugee status at the same time. Are the Palestinians who make up a significant proportion of Jordan’s population, for example, really refugees if they have homes, passports and voting rights?
> 
> The number of the Palestinian refugees keeps on growing. UNRWA itself says that in 1948 “more than 700,000 Palestine refugees [were] displaced as a result of the first Arab-Israeli war.” Naturally, it does not mention who started that war.
> 
> UNRWA now claims to care for “five million Palestinian refugees and their descendants living in the Middle East, including the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.” The word “descendants” makes a world of difference. Had UNRWA’s goals included facilitating the absorption of the “refugees,” by now there would be only a few thousands left who needed help – not millions more. But UNRWA’s mandate to resettle the Palestinian refugees was rescinded in 1965.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> My Word: UNRWA’s unsettling impact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The re-defining of the idea of "refugee" is one of the insidious and dangerous of the Arab Palestinians demands.  It completely re-writes former definitions, and applies the new definition uniquely to the Arab Palestinians.  (They argue that the Arab Palestinian situation is somehow unique, but no, its not. Actually, I take that back.  The Arab Palestinian situation is unique as they are the only peoples ever to claim that a competing indigenous or long term peoples must be prevented from having sovereignty over territory.)
> 
> According to the 1951 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugee a refugee is defined as:
> 
> _"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."_
> 
> If we were to properly adhere to the refugee definition, it would mean that:
> 
> Anyone inside the international borders of "Palestine/Israel" is not a refugee, as they are inside their country of nationality.
> 
> Anyone with another nationality is not a refugee, as they are inside their country of nationality, or able to avail themselves of their nationality.
> 
> 
> The question then -- How many actual Arab Palestinian refugees ARE there?
Click to expand...

I have read where there are only about 20,000 left.  No need to keep UNWRA alive after that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians do not even feel the need to condemn terror attacks against Jews, because the international community is no longer demanding that they come out against terrorism.


Instead of condemning the murder, the Palestinian Authority has been condemning Israel for launching a manhunt for the terrorists.....


Why do the Palestinians not want anyone to call them out? Because they are planning ... a new intifada.





(full article online)

The Palestinian Terror Party: Celebrating Murder


----------



## Sixties Fan

"...Jesus a Palestinian? I am sure you haven’t heard that one before. He was actually Jewish and if he tried to get into Palestinian Authority controlled Bethlehem today, his chances of survival would be minimal, because my fellow Palestinian brethren very much tend to stone to death, kill and maim Jews who get lost in the West Bank."

As a result of this answer, Hussein was arrested and beaten by the Palestinian Authority. His wife Alia writes on his behalf on his Quora profile page:

(full article online)

Palestinian Arab hero advocates real peace with Israel online - so the Palestinian Authority detains and beats him ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Arabs say that Judaism's Patriarch's are their Patriarchs.  Then why has this happened?  ]

The prayer hall is in a courtyard that is used because the prayer halls in the building are too small to accommodate the worshipers. But it is only protected by a tarp, because no permission was given by the Muslim Waqf to build a more permanent roof and walls.

According to the State of Israel, the Muslim Waqf is responsible for the maintenance of the building itself.

The Waqf denies that there is any problem, and it is claiming that the Jews are the ones damaging the site. it says that any roof added to the courtyard would be a violation of the status quo and any repairs that would fix the situation would themselves be the causes of harm to the site.

With amazing nerve, the Waqf called on the international community and all legal, cultural and archaeological institutions to work to stop these violations by Jews for doing  "actions harmful to this historic religious site."

The Jewish residents of the area have prepared a plan for a glass roof and walls that would preserve the character of the courtyard and allow worshipers to pray.

(full article online)

Judaism's second holiest site flooded, Muslims stop any chance for repairs that would stop the flooding ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Group will have hard time explaining how it allowed -- or worse, ordered -- the construction of a passage giving Gaza terrorists access to Sinai

(full article online)

Latest tunnel strike puts Hamas leaders in a tough spot with Cairo


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Arabs say that Judaism's Patriarch's are their Patriarchs.  Then why has this happened?  ]
> 
> The prayer hall is in a courtyard that is used because the prayer halls in the building are too small to accommodate the worshipers. But it is only protected by a tarp, because no permission was given by the Muslim Waqf to build a more permanent roof and walls.
> 
> According to the State of Israel, the Muslim Waqf is responsible for the maintenance of the building itself.
> 
> The Waqf denies that there is any problem, and it is claiming that the Jews are the ones damaging the site. it says that any roof added to the courtyard would be a violation of the status quo and any repairs that would fix the situation would themselves be the causes of harm to the site.
> 
> With amazing nerve, the Waqf called on the international community and all legal, cultural and archaeological institutions to work to stop these violations by Jews for doing  "actions harmful to this historic religious site."
> 
> The Jewish residents of the area have prepared a plan for a glass roof and walls that would preserve the character of the courtyard and allow worshipers to pray.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Judaism's second holiest site flooded, Muslims stop any chance for repairs that would stop the flooding ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Because the Muslims are imbeciles.  They're suspicious of any moves the Jews do, even if it's necessary repairs.  The idiots think the Jews might build something to limit their entrance to the site, or something like that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Arabs say that Judaism's Patriarch's are their Patriarchs.  Then why has this happened?  ]
> 
> The prayer hall is in a courtyard that is used because the prayer halls in the building are too small to accommodate the worshipers. But it is only protected by a tarp, because no permission was given by the Muslim Waqf to build a more permanent roof and walls.
> 
> According to the State of Israel, the Muslim Waqf is responsible for the maintenance of the building itself.
> 
> The Waqf denies that there is any problem, and it is claiming that the Jews are the ones damaging the site. it says that any roof added to the courtyard would be a violation of the status quo and any repairs that would fix the situation would themselves be the causes of harm to the site.
> 
> With amazing nerve, the Waqf called on the international community and all legal, cultural and archaeological institutions to work to stop these violations by Jews for doing  "actions harmful to this historic religious site."
> 
> The Jewish residents of the area have prepared a plan for a glass roof and walls that would preserve the character of the courtyard and allow worshipers to pray.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Judaism's second holiest site flooded, Muslims stop any chance for repairs that would stop the flooding ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Muslims are imbeciles.  They're suspicious of any moves the Jews do, even if it's necessary repairs.  The idiots think the Jews might build something to limit their entrance to the site, or something like that.
Click to expand...

It is basically the same rights they would have afforded Jews in the previous 1300 years to repair anything.  Jews are dhimmis


----------



## Sixties Fan

PMW's Role in Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Salaries to Terrorist Prisoners - PMW Bulletins


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Arabs say that Judaism's Patriarch's are their Patriarchs.  Then why has this happened?  ]
> 
> The prayer hall is in a courtyard that is used because the prayer halls in the building are too small to accommodate the worshipers. But it is only protected by a tarp, because no permission was given by the Muslim Waqf to build a more permanent roof and walls.
> 
> According to the State of Israel, the Muslim Waqf is responsible for the maintenance of the building itself.
> 
> The Waqf denies that there is any problem, and it is claiming that the Jews are the ones damaging the site. it says that any roof added to the courtyard would be a violation of the status quo and any repairs that would fix the situation would themselves be the causes of harm to the site.
> 
> With amazing nerve, the Waqf called on the international community and all legal, cultural and archaeological institutions to work to stop these violations by Jews for doing  "actions harmful to this historic religious site."
> 
> The Jewish residents of the area have prepared a plan for a glass roof and walls that would preserve the character of the courtyard and allow worshipers to pray.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Judaism's second holiest site flooded, Muslims stop any chance for repairs that would stop the flooding ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Muslims are imbeciles.  They're suspicious of any moves the Jews do, even if it's necessary repairs.  The idiots think the Jews might build something to limit their entrance to the site, or something like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is basically the same rights they would have afforded Jews in the previous 1300 years to repair anything.  Jews are dhimmis
Click to expand...



For 700 years, until 1967, Jews were not allowed entry into the Tomb of the Patriarchs.  They had to pray outside on the seventh step, if they wanted to pray there at all.  When the Israelis took over in 1967, they blew up that humiliating staircase outside the Tomb.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Students for Justice in Palestine network serves as the leading student arm of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement in the United States.
SJP is not as they claim, a “grassroots” student organization; it is a terror-affiliated anti-Semitic network that currently operates with autonomy and impunity at colleges and universities across the United States.
SJP has adopted a policy of “anti-normalization” of relations with Zionist groups and most Jewish organizations with the exception of the equally radical, anti-Zionist and pro-BDS Jewish Voice for Peace. Students for Justice in Palestine advances their proprietary view of Palestinian justice by undertaking initiatives to isolate, demonize, and ultimately destroy the state of Israel.

(full article online)

Students for Justice in Palestine Unmasked


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Let us rejoice.  According to Abbas, the Oslo Accords are Nullified.
Which, if he does not know it, he is not a President of anything anymore, as there is no PA anymore.  Pop up the champaign  
Can we now have it in writing and officialized?  ]

During his address, Abbas also claimed that the Oslo agreements, beginning with the 1993 Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, better known as the Oslo I Accord, were nullified.

(full article online)

Abbas: 'Trump slapped us in the face, Oslo Accords are over'


----------



## Hollie

*U.S. set to cut UN money for Palestinian refugees

U.S. set to cut UN money for Palestinian refugees*

The Trump administration is preparing to withhold tens of millions of dollars from the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, cutting the year's first contribution by more than half or perhaps entirely, and making additional donations contingent on major changes to the organization, according to U.S. officials.



“Pay your respects, everybody tells you
You pay for what you get”   -_Dave Matthews_


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> *U.S. set to cut UN money for Palestinian refugees
> 
> U.S. set to cut UN money for Palestinian refugees*
> 
> The Trump administration is preparing to withhold tens of millions of dollars from the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, cutting the year's first contribution by more than half or perhaps entirely, and making additional donations contingent on major changes to the organization, according to U.S. officials.
> 
> 
> 
> “Pay your respects, everybody tells you
> You pay for what you get”   -_Dave Matthews_




It's about time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Let us rejoice.  According to Abbas, the Oslo Accords are Nullified.
> Which, if he does not know it, he is not a President of anything anymore, as there is no PA anymore.  Pop up the champaign
> Can we now have it in writing and officialized?  ]
> 
> During his address, Abbas also claimed that the Oslo agreements, beginning with the 1993 Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, better known as the Oslo I Accord, were nullified.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas: 'Trump slapped us in the face, Oslo Accords are over'


I'll believe that when he cuts his security coordination.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Let us rejoice.  According to Abbas, the Oslo Accords are Nullified.
> Which, if he does not know it, he is not a President of anything anymore, as there is no PA anymore.  Pop up the champaign
> Can we now have it in writing and officialized?  ]
> 
> During his address, Abbas also claimed that the Oslo agreements, beginning with the 1993 Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, better known as the Oslo I Accord, were nullified.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas: 'Trump slapped us in the face, Oslo Accords are over'




Interesting.  The nullification of the Oslo Accords does nothing practically except make the potential Arab Palestinian State more vulnerable and fragile.  If I were him, I'd be doing the opposite.  Rather than rejecting the Oslo Accords -- I'd be insisting that the principles of Oslo be upheld -- especially the principle that the final status of Jerusalem, borders, Jewish presence (aka "settlements") is to be negotiated and can not be determined by unilateral actions.  

By insisting that his own unilateral actions are valid -- he is SUPPORTING the unilateral actions of Israel and others.  He is fundamentally agreeing that unilateral actions have validity.  Its the wrong path to go down for him.  If it comes down to which unilateral actions will stick, Israel is holding all those cards.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  Let us rejoice.  According to Abbas, the Oslo Accords are Nullified.
> Which, if he does not know it, he is not a President of anything anymore, as there is no PA anymore.  Pop up the champaign
> Can we now have it in writing and officialized?  ]
> 
> During his address, Abbas also claimed that the Oslo agreements, beginning with the 1993 Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, better known as the Oslo I Accord, were nullified.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas: 'Trump slapped us in the face, Oslo Accords are over'
> 
> 
> 
> I'll believe that when he cuts his security coordination.
Click to expand...


You would love that, wouldn't you?  That would mean more settler deaths, like that father of six just a few days ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  Let us rejoice.  According to Abbas, the Oslo Accords are Nullified.
> Which, if he does not know it, he is not a President of anything anymore, as there is no PA anymore.  Pop up the champaign
> Can we now have it in writing and officialized?  ]
> 
> During his address, Abbas also claimed that the Oslo agreements, beginning with the 1993 Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, better known as the Oslo I Accord, were nullified.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas: 'Trump slapped us in the face, Oslo Accords are over'
> 
> 
> 
> I'll believe that when he cuts his security coordination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You would love that, wouldn't you?  That would mean more settler deaths, like that father of six just a few days ago.
Click to expand...

Why do those people want to live in Israel's war zone? They should take responsibility for their own safety.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why do those people want to live in Israel's war zone? They should take responsibility for their own safety.



Lol.  They are.  And so is Israel.  Didn't she just annex that town?  To ensure that the people of that town are safe?  Uh huh.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, Sixties Fan, et al,

At the current time, I'm not sure what is meant when someone says:  "Israel's war zone"



P F Tinmore said:


> Why do those people want to live in Israel's war zone? They should take responsibility for their own safety.


*(COMMENT)*

And isn't this some recurring theme on the part of the Palestinians that they wish to "stand-alone?"


			
				Mahmoud Abbas said:
			
		

> * 'Trump slapped us in the face, Oslo Accords are over'*
> By:  David Rosenberg, 14/01/18
> 
> Abbas to Trump: 'May your house be destroyed'. PA chief blasts Israel as European 'colonial' project, 'has no connection to Jewish people'.
> 
> Palestinian Authority chief Mahmoud Abbas slammed President Donald Trump Sunday evening, and decried the Jewish state as a “colonial” European project, unconnected to the Jewish people.


It seems like every year Abbas makes this threat.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> At the current time, I'm not sure what is meant when someone says: "Israel's war zone"


No surprise here.


----------



## Sixties Fan

So while Cromwell seems to have been open to the idea of God bringing the Jews home (and everyone of course knew where the Jewish home was,) he didn't seem to be advocating helping the Jews move there.

But, the book goes on the say, John Locke hinted that Jews would go back to their homeland and Isaac Newton said that it could be foreign nations like England that would help them along!

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas taught me something about Oliver Cromwell, Proto-Zionist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Yes, enough is more than enough.  Hamas wishes to kill Jews but still receive medical aid?  Enough. ]

The Israeli government announced Monday that it would no longer permit members of the Hamas terrorist group or their immediate family members in Gaza to enter Israel with entry permits issued out of humanitarian concerns, including to seek medical treatment in Israeli hospitals, as opposed to medical facilities in the Gaza Strip.

Hamas leaders barred from 'humanitarian visits' to Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Customs inspectors in Ashdod Harbor this week flagged a container intended for Gaza, and discovered in it a very large shipment military equipment, including thousands of military vests with attachments for carrying weapons.

In addition, the same inspectors found thousands of pairs of special military boots and thousands of camouflage thermal coats, for long-term operational conditions.

(full article online)

Custom Inspectors Thwart Smuggling of Thousands of Military Items into Gaza | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 28 Tevet 5778 – January 15, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The defense establishment fears the instability caused if the funding for UNRWA stops. In my view, there are U.N. organizations that are already active, like the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) and others, that can supply humanitarian services to answer the needs of these Palestinians relatively quickly. Many Palestinians who receive money and services from UNRWA would shed no tears if they would receive this aid from another organization, one that has not indoctrinated them. Will this be easy? No. Are some of the defense establishment's arguments rational? Yes. But this view looks at the long term. We have a ticking time bomb here, and if we do not defuse it now, in the long term it will blow up in our faces.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-problem-is-unrwa/?redirected=224289


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Say that again.....]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last but not least, here’s a revealing _Al Mayadeen_ clip about how Ahed Tamimi is presented to her fans in the Arab world – and you don’t have to know Arabic, because the pictures glorifying Ahed speak for themselves, showing clearly that her Arab fans know very well that the Tamimis are not fighting Israeli settlements or the occupation of the West Bank, but Israel’s existence as a Jewish state in any borders.



I was intrigued by one image in particular: it seemed to be cut at the bottom corners, which are also obstructed by the line of text displayed in the _Al Mayadeen_ clip. So I took a screenshot and did a reverse image search – which was worth it: the full image shows Ahed wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh and a shirt adorned with a map that presents Israel, the West Bank and Gaza as one country; two rats wearing caps with a Star of David viciously chew at her flowing hair. 
The image was apparently very popular on Facebook and Twitter; interestingly – and depressingly – it was also retweeted by Samya Ayish, who describesherself as a Palestinian “Journalist/ Producer in @CNNArabic.” Perhaps Ayish didn’t notice the antisemitic imagery of the two rats with the Star of David, but she surely didn’t have a problem reading the Arabic text of the tweet which praised Ahed for wearing (or representing) “the amulet of Palestine ... all of Palestine.” So it seems that at least at _CNN_ Arabic, they know what the Tamimis stand for.

(full article online)

Take two: Bassem Tamimi on his daughter Ahed in Arabic and English (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amnesty is encouraging children to assault armed soldiers, telling them that the soldiers do not have the right to defend themselves nor to arrest them. And that the human rights community will praise them and turn them into heroes.

Amnesty would never encourage children to attack armed Syrian or Russian soldiers. Because those soldiers would kill the children without a moment's hesitation - and without any fear of condemnation by Amnesty.

(full article online)

Amnesty tacitly encourages children to assault armed soldiers - but only if they are Israeli ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Amnesty is encouraging children to assault armed soldiers, telling them that the soldiers do not have the right to defend themselves nor to arrest them. And that the human rights community will praise them and turn them into heroes.
> 
> Amnesty would never encourage children to attack armed Syrian or Russian soldiers. Because those soldiers would kill the children without a moment's hesitation - and without any fear of condemnation by Amnesty.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty tacitly encourages children to assault armed soldiers - but only if they are Israeli ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.  I say a practical right, because it is NOT a legal right, though some (not me) may call it a moral right.  

Ahed, like all Palestinians, is not immune from the consequences of committing violence.  

We can not permit human rights organizations to support and encourage violence and then demand immunity for those committing violence.  It is the polar opposite of human rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.



And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.

You just can't make this stuff up.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.



I'm a trained martial artist and self-defense instructor.  I saw the video.  

Do you believe that men should be permitted to slap their wives?  Kick their wives knees out?  Punch their wives?  Do you think that is not violence?


----------



## Shusha

And if you want to play the reversal game,  do you believe that women should be permitted to slap their husbands?  Kick their husbands knees out?  Punch their husbands?  Because their husbands are bigger and stronger than them and therefore, their husbands are not really in danger?  Do you think that is not violence?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.
> 
> You just can't make this stuff up.
Click to expand...



Of course it's violence.  The self-restraint that those soldiers maintain is remarkable.  In the absence of a final peace arrangement, they are the authority in Areas B and C for the moment, and their authority can't be undermined.  Especially not by hysterical, bratty girls like that.


----------



## Shusha

One might consider that even with a peace treaty there will be those on either side of the border who will not comply with the terms of peace and will continue to act against the ruling authorities.  One might suggest that a condition of peace be that any unable to commit to peace (for example, people who protest the existence of peace, normalization or the ethnic makeup of their neighbors) are immediately and promptly deported to the other side.  Shrug.  Just an idea.  Because neither side, frankly, can afford to have to constantly police belligerents within their society.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a trained martial artist and self-defense instructor.  I saw the video.
> 
> Do you believe that men should be permitted to slap their wives?  Kick their wives knees out?  Punch their wives?  Do you think that is not violence?
Click to expand...

Deflection.

Everybody has the right to defend themselves from foreign invading troops.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.
> 
> You just can't make this stuff up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's violence.  The self-restraint that those soldiers maintain is remarkable.  In the absence of a final peace arrangement, they are the authority in Areas B and C for the moment, and their authority can't be undermined.  Especially not by hysterical, bratty girls like that.
Click to expand...

Israel stepped in it this time. Now what are they going to do?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.
> 
> You just can't make this stuff up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's violence.  The self-restraint that those soldiers maintain is remarkable.  In the absence of a final peace arrangement, they are the authority in Areas B and C for the moment, and their authority can't be undermined.  Especially not by hysterical, bratty girls like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel stepped in it this time. Now what are they going to do?
Click to expand...


They will proceed with charges of assault and battery. How sad that you are among those Islamist retrogrades who preys upon children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.
> 
> You just can't make this stuff up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's violence.  The self-restraint that those soldiers maintain is remarkable.  In the absence of a final peace arrangement, they are the authority in Areas B and C for the moment, and their authority can't be undermined.  Especially not by hysterical, bratty girls like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel stepped in it this time. Now what are they going to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They will proceed with charges of assault and battery. How sad that you are among those Islamist retrogrades who preys upon children.
Click to expand...

It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed, like all Palestinians, have the practical "right" to commit violence at any time, in any measure, in any capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel calls slapping a foreign goontard in her yard, violence.
> 
> You just can't make this stuff up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's violence.  The self-restraint that those soldiers maintain is remarkable.  In the absence of a final peace arrangement, they are the authority in Areas B and C for the moment, and their authority can't be undermined.  Especially not by hysterical, bratty girls like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel stepped in it this time. Now what are they going to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They will proceed with charges of assault and battery. How sad that you are among those Islamist retrogrades who preys upon children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.
Click to expand...


One of the YouTube videos you posted clearly showed she was the aggressor. What a shame you are among those Islamist retrograde types who uses children as cheap objects.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.



She was not defending herself.  This is a blatant misrepresentation.  *She was under no threat of harm or attack. * The soldiers involved were impeccable in their restraint.  She was not defending herself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was not defending herself.  This is a blatant misrepresentation.  *She was under no threat of harm or attack. * The soldiers involved were impeccable in their restraint.  She was not defending herself.
Click to expand...

He hit her first. That is when she went off on him.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was not defending herself.  This is a blatant misrepresentation.  *She was under no threat of harm or attack. * The soldiers involved were impeccable in their restraint.  She was not defending herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He hit her first. That is when she went off on him.
Click to expand...


That simply isn’t true. Your self-delusions are concerning.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was not defending herself.  This is a blatant misrepresentation.  *She was under no threat of harm or attack. * The soldiers involved were impeccable in their restraint.  She was not defending herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He hit her first. That is when she went off on him.
Click to expand...


Oh bullshit.  Again with the lies.  I've seen the video.  She lays hands on him first.  He never hits her.  

Go ahead -- pluck a video.  Give me the time that you think he hit her.  I'll respond.  Your choice of video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the assholes in Israel who have her in jail for defending herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was not defending herself.  This is a blatant misrepresentation.  *She was under no threat of harm or attack. * The soldiers involved were impeccable in their restraint.  She was not defending herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He hit her first. That is when she went off on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  Again with the lies.  I've seen the video.  She lays hands on him first.  He never hits her.
> 
> Go ahead -- pluck a video.  Give me the time that you think he hit her.  I'll respond.  Your choice of video.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.  

Let's recap.  

Officers striking Ahed = 0
Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)


You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.
Click to expand...


Prove me wrong.  When did he hit her?  Give me the number.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong.  When did he hit her?  Give me the number.
Click to expand...

0:24


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong.  When did he hit her?  Give me the number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 0:24
Click to expand...


First, she has already struck him three times by then.  So your assertion that he hit her first is just wrong.  

Second, she had her hand on his upper arm.  She grabbed him.  He didn't strike her.  He shook off her arm. 

She is clearly the aggressor here.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The only reason the army need to be there is to protect the Jews from mobs of stone throwers (and potential bombers.) Otherwise, the Jews could visit peacefully and leave peacefully, not having to come in groups of a thousand at midnight but coming throughout the day. Souvenir stands could be placed nearby and the economy of Nablus could improve.

It isn't the Jews who disrupt the lives of the resident of Nablus - it is the residents of Nablus who hate Jews so much that they must stone and firebomb them.

But B'Tselem shows that it really doesn't care about human rights at all. Palestinians have the absolute right to keep Jews out of their town, and Jews have no right to peacefully pray at their holy site.

(full article online)

Just an attempt to massacre scores of religious Jews. (And B'Tselem supports the side of the terrorists.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Should America Stop Funding UNRWA?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong.  When did he hit her?  Give me the number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 0:24
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, she has already struck him three times by then.  So your assertion that he hit her first is just wrong.
> 
> Second, she had her hand on his upper arm.  She grabbed him.  He didn't strike her.  He shook off her arm.
> 
> She is clearly the aggressor here.
Click to expand...

Israel steals their stuff and kills their people. And you say Ahed is the aggressor.

You  are a hoot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong.  When did he hit her?  Give me the number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 0:24
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, she has already struck him three times by then.  So your assertion that he hit her first is just wrong.
> 
> Second, she had her hand on his upper arm.  She grabbed him.  He didn't strike her.  He shook off her arm.
> 
> She is clearly the aggressor here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel steals their stuff and kills their people. And you say Ahed is the aggressor.
> 
> You  are a hoot.
Click to expand...

You have never been to Israel, could not care to.  You do not know history and hate Jews and Israel within an inch of your life.

And anyone is supposed to listen to what you have to say as you continue to live in your dungeon.

That is the hoot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the verses above, God punishes the Jews for their sin of refusing to fight the indigenous people in the land. And God is angry that the Jews refused to convert to Islam. The Quran is even harsher towards the Jews when recounting the stories of Muhammad's battles against them. Yet the verses are consistent in their assertion that God gave the Holy Land to the Jews.

The reason this is relevant today is that it exposes the hypocrisy of those radical Muslims who claim to believe in and adhere to the letter of the Quran, yet use the claim that Palestine and Jerusalem are Islamic for political purposes and propaganda.

This is not to say that because the land of Israel was a divine gift to the Jews, they therefore have all rights to it. On the contrary, no future peace between Israelis and Palestinians, both of whom reside there, will or should be determined by scripture. This proclamation, however, is as good a reason as any to stop misquoting it.

(full article online)

The Quran Says Jerusalem Belongs to the Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Because I’m an Israeli, an entire airline is not allowed to take me on their plane, even if I’m not going to Kuwait,” he said in the video, saying such behavior was discriminatory and “should be illegal.” 

He added: “Dear Kuwait: If you want to boycott Israel, be my guest, refuse me service. But also give me your USB flash drives, your phones, your safe-driving cars, your Viber, your Waze or your anti-virus – this is also Israel.”

Often when Yassin returns home to Israel, he hosts meet-ups for Palestinians and Israelis, as he did in July in Jerusalem, when tension in the city was high.

(full article online)

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Cu...ok-star-discovers-hes-1-percent-Jewish-536786


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Joseph, clearly being one of the Patriarchs of Islam, never thought that the Muslims would want to blow up his Tomb ]

The Jewish holy site has been targeted by Palestinians in the past. In October of 2015, hundreds of rioters set the tomb ablaze before being dispersed by Palestinian Authority police. The religious site suffered severe damage, but again, no one was wounded.

(full article online)

Israeli security forces find cell phone bomb in Joseph's Tomb


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She takes a swipe at him at 0:14, no contact.  She takes another swipe at him at 0:18 and makes contact.  She lays hand on him to grab him at 0:25.  He reacts by shaking it off, no contact.  She kicks his knee at 0:27.  Making hard contact against the side of the knee (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  Se strikes his arm at 0:28.  He shakes it off, makes no contact.  She kicks him in the knee again at 0:29 (a potentially disabling blow).  He shifts back to try to avoid damage.  He does not retaliate.  She strikes him in the face at 0:31 (a potentially disabling blow).  He does not retaliate.  She strikes at the face of the second officer with a closed fist, pulling her strike so as to avoid contact at 0:34.  He does not retaliate.  She kicks at the knee of the first officer again at 0:39 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.   She kicks him again at 0:49 (a potentially disabling blow).  He successfully avoids it.
> 
> Let's recap.
> 
> Officers striking Ahed = 0
> Ahed striking officers = 10 (5 potentially disabling)
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a judge in Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong.  When did he hit her?  Give me the number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 0:24
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, she has already struck him three times by then.  So your assertion that he hit her first is just wrong.
> 
> Second, she had her hand on his upper arm.  She grabbed him.  He didn't strike her.  He shook off her arm.
> 
> She is clearly the aggressor here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel steals their stuff and kills their people. And you say Ahed is the aggressor.
> 
> You  are a hoot.
Click to expand...



Then you're admitting you lied about the specific situations in these videos.  You come back with vague generic accusations.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On January 14, 2018, the Palestinian Authority (PA) Prisoners Affairs Authority, in conjunction with the governor of the Ramallah district and the Palestinian Prisoners Club, held an event in Ramallah to mark the 36th year of imprisonment of two Israeli-Arab terrorists – Kareem Younis, aka "The Eldest of Prisoners," and his cousin Maher Younis – serving life sentences in Israel for the 1980 kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg. During the event, senior Fatah officials heaped praise on the two, describing them as "national examples of steadfastness" and "one of the symbols of the Palestinian struggle."_






_Invitation to the event on the Facebook page of the PA Prisoners Affairs Authority (Source: Facebook.com/freedom2pal, January 11, 2018)._

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Honors Two Prisoners Serving Life Sentences For Kidnapping, Murder Of Israeli Soldier; Representative For PA President 'Abbas: 'The Two Prisoners Are A National Example'


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Joseph, clearly being one of the Patriarchs of Islam, never thought that the Muslims would want to blow up his Tomb ]
> 
> The Jewish holy site has been targeted by Palestinians in the past. In October of 2015, hundreds of rioters set the tomb ablaze before being dispersed by Palestinian Authority police. The religious site suffered severe damage, but again, no one was wounded.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli security forces find cell phone bomb in Joseph's Tomb




Muslims believe Joseph is buried in the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron.  As for the real Tomb of Joseph in Shechem, clearly respect and tolerance for the holy places and faiths of other ppl means nothing to Muslims.  Why Joseph's and Rachel's Tombs are not on UNESCO's endangered list is a mystery to me.


----------



## Sixties Fan

They bomb the Cave of the Patriarchs as well.  And are making sure that all of our holy sites are defined as Muslim by UNESCO.
We do know, now, what UNESCO stands for.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> They bomb the Cave of the Patriarchs as well.  And are making sure that all of our holy sites are defined as Muslim by UNESCO.
> We do know, now, what UNESCO stands for.




Actually, the Muslims desecrate the siddurim (prayer-books), Torahs and mezuzzot in the Jewish section of the Cave, when they get the Cave exclusively for 10 days a year.  (The Jews also get the Cave for 10 days annually, and the rest of the time it's divided.)  Can you imagine what would happen if the Jews tore up Muslim prayer rugs or damaged their mihrabs (pulpits)?  Not that Jews would ever descend to their level...


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They bomb the Cave of the Patriarchs as well.  And are making sure that all of our holy sites are defined as Muslim by UNESCO.
> We do know, now, what UNESCO stands for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Muslims desecrate the siddurim (prayer-books), Torahs and mezuzzot in the Jewish section of the Cave, when they get the Cave exclusively for 10 days a year.  (The Jews also get the Cave for 10 days annually, and the rest of the time it's divided.)  Can you imagine what would happen if the Jews tore up Muslim prayer rugs or damaged their mihrabs (pulpits)?  Not that Jews would ever descend to their level...
Click to expand...

Yes, they do.  I have posted an article about it.  
They cannot accept Jews being sovereign of anything or anyplace they once conquered, as it has been pointed out before.

They need to learn the hard way.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In short, Britain and the EU continue to support, validate and this connive at an agenda aimed at the extermination of Israel promoted by hallucinatory lies and libels about the Jewish people along with gross Holocaust denial. 

Abbas’s speech should be sent to every member of the British parliament, and the Prime Minister, Theresa May, should be asked how Britain can continue to give any money at all to such open antisemites and Holocaust deniers. She should be asked how the British government can continue to support giving such people a state of their own. She should be asked why the British government has ignored this horrifying reality, and the constant mortal danger it poses for the Israelis, for so long.

But then, many British people will be unaware of the appalling nature of Abbas’s speech since the BBC chose to bowdlerise it, as *BBC Watch* observes here.

(full article online)

Abbas tears off the mask | MelaniePhillips.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian narrative of Israel as European colonialists has several layers of appeal for Palestinian nationalism;


It validates Palestinian history while denying Jewish history. Under this theory Jews are not a nation or a race, but a predominantly European religion. This, again, ignores evidence of ancient Jewish presence in Israel, and the expulsion of Jewish natives of the region from states including Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Bangladesh, Bahrain, and Jordan.
It views suspiciously Europeans creating artificial Arab nation states in the region via the Sykes-Picot agreement. It is critical to contextualize Palestinian Holocaust denial in this view. The Holocaust, in this view, was a European hoax- the big lie- designed to justify Jewish European Colonialism as required by Sykes-Picot. (This was the subject of Abbas’s Doctoral Thesis)
This view argues that Zionism- like all other colonialist occupations in human history- will end with the occupiers returning to their homeland, and the natives retaining control of their indigenous land. This belief is not about land captured in 1967, but about the founding of Israel in 1948, and its existence thereafter. It was the basis for founding the Palestine Liberation Organization in 1964, three years before there was any occupation. Put another way, this belief is about Jaffa and Haifa, not Hebron and the Etzion Bloc.

(full article online)

Guest Post: Trading ‘67 for ‘48: Why Abu Mazen’s Tantrum Matters


----------



## Sixties Fan

Only about half a dozen PLO military officials remained in Tehran attached to the Guards as of August of 1980, according to the report.

The PLO's main presence was in Tehran. 

"Immediately after the revolution," Khomeni gave the PLO a Tehran office building that formerly housed Israel's diplomatic mission in Iran, the report claims. The office was accorded the status of an embassy and included a military attache, press offices for the Palestine News Agency (WAFA) and a few intelligence officers. The regime also granted the PLO small offices in several other cities, including  Mashhad, Shiraz, Ahvaz and Esfehan. 

The PLO presence in Iran was "dominated by Arafat's Fatah group which has sought to prevent other Palestinian organizations from gaining a position in the country," according to the document.

While Iran has maintained a relationship with the PLO since 1979, the Shi'ite regime is also seen as a major backer of Fatah's arch-nemesis Hamas, who ousted Fatah from Gaza in 2007. The two groups engaged in reconciliation talks in late 2017.

(full article online)

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/CIA-report-reveals-budding-Tehran-PLO-relationship-in-1979-536895


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Promises, Promises.....but when it comes to doing it........  ]

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...-upon-PLO-to-end-recognition-of-Israel-536845


----------



## Sixties Fan

Too many media reports whitewashed Abbas’ coverage. Perhaps editors didn’t attach enough importance to the speech to give their correspondents a longer word count, which might account for the short, sanitized reports by Reuters, BBC News, CNN and Sky News.

Other news services touched on Abbas’ rant, but didn’t delve into the significance, such as AFP, The Independent, Irish Times and the Financial Times.

While the New York Times gave a sense of the PA chairman’s verbosity, the paper unfortunately didn’t fact-check Abbas, giving a pass to the false quote.

(full article online)

Media Whitewashes Abbas' Revisionism and Rejectionism | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC censors parts of Mahmoud Abbas speech once again


----------



## Sixties Fan

This happened on Monday according to a report published late Monday night:
A rocket fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip struck a Palestinian home in Deir al-Balah by mistake, Arab media reported Monday. Located in the central Gaza Strip, two residents of Deir al-Balah were badly wounded and a third lightly wounded. ["_Rocket from Gaza Strip accidentally strikes Palestinian home_", *Jerusalem Post*, January 15, 2018]

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 16-Jan-18: In Gaza, another invisible "Fell Short" wrecks a Palestinian Arab home


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They bomb the Cave of the Patriarchs as well.  And are making sure that all of our holy sites are defined as Muslim by UNESCO.
> We do know, now, what UNESCO stands for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Muslims desecrate the siddurim (prayer-books), Torahs and mezuzzot in the Jewish section of the Cave, when they get the Cave exclusively for 10 days a year.  (The Jews also get the Cave for 10 days annually, and the rest of the time it's divided.)  Can you imagine what would happen if the Jews tore up Muslim prayer rugs or damaged their mihrabs (pulpits)?  Not that Jews would ever descend to their level...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they do.  I have posted an article about it.
> They cannot accept Jews being sovereign of anything or anyplace they once conquered, as it has been pointed out before.
> 
> They need to learn the hard way.
Click to expand...



Although it may be old news, can you re-post that article you say you have about Muslims bombing the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  Or was it vandalism of the Jewish section of the Cave?  Thanx in advance.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They bomb the Cave of the Patriarchs as well.  And are making sure that all of our holy sites are defined as Muslim by UNESCO.
> We do know, now, what UNESCO stands for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Muslims desecrate the siddurim (prayer-books), Torahs and mezuzzot in the Jewish section of the Cave, when they get the Cave exclusively for 10 days a year.  (The Jews also get the Cave for 10 days annually, and the rest of the time it's divided.)  Can you imagine what would happen if the Jews tore up Muslim prayer rugs or damaged their mihrabs (pulpits)?  Not that Jews would ever descend to their level...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they do.  I have posted an article about it.
> They cannot accept Jews being sovereign of anything or anyplace they once conquered, as it has been pointed out before.
> 
> They need to learn the hard way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Although it may be old news, can you re-post that article you say you have about Muslims bombing the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  Or was it vandalism of the Jewish section of the Cave?  Thanx in advance.
Click to expand...

There was this:

Palestinians Vandalize Jewish Artifact at Cave of Patriarchs

and several attacks at soldiers and others.

No the first time:

Hevron: Muslim Worshippers Desecrate Jewish Holy Site


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Happy ending ]

Palestinian Girl Reunited With Mother in Gaza After Being Abandoned in Jerusalem by Father Following Medical Treatment at Israeli Hospital


----------



## Sixties Fan

Black is quite sympathetic to Palestinian Arabs, but even he makes clear that they did not have that identity until relatively recently.

It makes the occasional article or tweet about "Palestine Airlines" or Palestine currency and stamps seem even more stupid than they already were.

And notice that even today, Arabs refer to Israel -not the territories, but Israel altogether - as "the occupation."

(full article online)

Guardian writer admits that really no Arabs were called "Palestinian" until the 1960s ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The terrorist Hamas movement, which supports the Persian Iranian regime, rejected [UNRWA's] curricula on human rights.[6] This caused a grave crisis between the Hamas government and UNRWA, following which the latter suspended these curricula in its Gaza schools... Hamas's complaint was that these curricula address everyone's human rights, including those of the Jewish and Israeli people, and contravene the culture and rights of the 'Palestinian' people. There are no signs on the horizon of any solution for this broad crisis that developed between the terrorist Hamas government... and UNRWA...

"Therefore, all forms of financial aid and international funding for UNRWA must stop, as long as it [continues] subjecting its decisions to the methodology of terror, exclusion, racism and lack of consideration for the rights of other peoples, namely to the methodology of the Persian Hamas movement that controls Gaza, which [Hamas] imposes upon the UNRWA curricula and schools."  

(full article online)

Kuwaiti Columnist: Stop Funding For Racist UNRWA Until It Dwindles And Dies


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA’s problem with women is not limited to Republicans. In its Oct. 3, 1997 issue, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida’s editor in chief denounced Arab leaders whom, he said, “would have sung love songs” to then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright “were it not for her advanced age and the fact that she has passed her prime.”

I wonder if the PA’s disturbing obsession with physical appearance of these female U.S. officials is a reflection of the anti-woman culture that the PA fosters in Palestinian society.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas has a problem with women


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA TV Music Video Promotes Suicide Bombings (video) | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Hana Levi Julian | 1 Shevat 5778 – January 16, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bedouin Recruitment to IDF Increases in 2017 | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Hana Levi Julian | 1 Shevat 5778 – January 16, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

What has changed between then and now? It is obvious: Nothing. Both then and now,  Arabs didn't care about who would administer Jerusalem as long as the people who controlled it weren't Jews. They wanted to reduce, however they could, the amount of land that Jews controlled - hence the absurd idea of not only including Nazareth in the _corpus separatum,_ but also the corridor that would need to be created to travel there from Jerusalem - cutting Israel nearly in half.

There is no rich Arab history in Jerusalem. It was never an Arab capital. The city was a terrible place to live when under Muslim rule.

The only time Muslims showed interest was when either Christians, during the Crusades, or Jews nowadays, controlled the city. Otherwise, the city was all but ignored, with only occasional pilgrims passing through.

The Palestinian Arab obsession with Jerusalem, plastering photos of the Dome of the Rock on every surface, is a new phenomenon. Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the original PLO charter written in 1964!

(full article online)

UN report from 1949 shows Arabs didn't want Jerusalem - they just wanted to take it away from Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch, It Finally Happened: Police Bewildered as 42 Jews Pray Aloud on Temple Mount | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 1 Shevat 5778 – January 17, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas’ speech has sparked a media frenzy. What went unreported is that Abbas’ Palestinian Authority — and his Fatah political party — were responsible for the murder of 35-year-old Raziel Shevach earlier this month.

This father of six young children was shot dead by a Palestinian terrorist in a drive-by shooting attack on Israel’s Route 60, which loosely follows the Road of the Patriarchs — an ancient North-South route traversing the hills of Israel.

The PA is liable for that attack — and so many others — because it publicly and without restraint pays terrorists and their families more than a billion shekels a year, thereby enabling and encouraging terrorism. Payments are given monthly to all Palestinian terrorists jailed in Israel, including the families of terrorists who have killed or seriously wounded Israeli civilians.


(full article online)

It’s Time to Outlaw Fatah


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prof. Oren Yiftachel of Ben-Gurion University explained that the rocket fire must be seen “as an attempt to remind the world, Israel, and also the Palestinian leadership, that the refugee problem is still alive and kicking.” 

They are against terrorism, but they’re providing justifications for terrorism. Germans have been expelled from many countries too. And Poles. And Hungarians. And Ukrainians. And Turks. And Greek. And many other people. Tens of millions. Yet we haven’t heard about rockets being launched, and we definitely haven’t heard justifications for the rocket terror. Because most of Europe would have turned into a show of fire and flames and fireworks. But that’s the rationality that has taken over the progressive elites in the Israeli-Palestinian context. Irrationality, I mean. 

And so it goes. They turned down the Partition Plan? Poor people. Why would anyone give up a room in their home just because someone invaded it? That’s a justification I’ve heard about a thousand times. 

It’s true that when Zionism began, there was no “Palestinian home.” And it’s true that the Palestine Exploration Fund (PEF), which produced the most accurate maps of the 19th century in the 1970s, discovered that the area had been poorly populated. And it’s true that most of today’s Palestinians arrived as work migrants or refugees from nearby countries in the past few centuries (the Zoabi family, for example, arrived at the invitation of the Ottoman government in 1873). And it’s true that Hamas’ interior minister, Fathi Hamad, admitted that the Palestinians are actually Egyptians and Saudis. 

But to hell with the facts, as long as Abbas can quote dozens of experts, journalists and academics who provide incitement and propaganda material for every delusional speech he makes.

(full article online)

Stop ‘understanding’ the Palestinians


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Watch, It Finally Happened: Police Bewildered as 42 Jews Pray Aloud on Temple Mount | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 1 Shevat 5778 – January 17, 2018 | JewishPress.com



Its sad and tragic that saying "Allah is great" or "G-d is One" has become a provocation.  

Still, it clearly has become so.  And given that truth it is a double standard for the former to be permissible and the latter to be forbidden.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I have not yet seen a transcript of what Mahmoud Abbas said at Al Azhar in Cairo on Wednesday, but the small pieces published in Arabic media are enough proof of his extremism.

Egypt's Masrawy reports that Abbas said, "There is no respectable Jew in the world who accepts the Zionist entity....There are Jews who say that Jerusalem is for Muslims and Christians and for the Arabs."

(full article online)

Abbas: "No respectable Jew in the world accepts the Zionist entity" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Hamas invited the world's Muslims to praise the murder of a rabbi. They came through. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The deeper understanding – based on a systematic survey of all available state practice – of the prohibition on settlements should inform legal discussions of the Arab-Israeli conflict, including potential investigations into such activity by the International Criminal Court. More broadly, the new understanding of Art. 49(6) developed here can also shed significant light on the proper treatment of several ongoing occupations, from Western Sahara and Northern Cyprus, to the Russian occupations of Ukraine and Georgia, whose settlement policies this Article is the first to document.

(full article online)

Unsettled: A Global Study of Settlements in Occupied Territories by Eugene Kontorovich :: SSRN


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last month, a video showing a man waving a Palestinian flag and smashing the windows of a kosher Amsterdam restaurant went viral. Thereafter, two policemen — who stood by during the vandalism — overpowered the attacker.

Two days later, the attacker was freed by the police with a warning that if he committed additional crimes, he would be rearrested. Later, it became known that the perpetrator is a Palestinian-Syrian asylum-seeker who’s lived in the Netherlands for several years. He reportedly promised not to repeat his hate/terror crime in Amsterdam. The prosecution also withheld several salient facts from the public — for example, that the man was an ex-combatant in Syria’s civil war.

(full article online)

The Dutch and Their Jews: The Never-Ending Shame of the Netherlands


----------



## Sixties Fan

Another notable point was Sackur’s adoption of Hamas’ own terminology and his breach [from 20:09] of the BBC Academy’s “journalists’ guide to facts and terminology” which, as noted here recently on two occasions, instructs the corporation’s staff not to use the term Palestine except in very specific circumstances.

_Sackur: “Is the resistance in Palestine now in the hands of ordinary people – young people particularly – not with veteran leaders like you?”_

Viewers and listeners may have noticed that during this interview some of the messaging they have previously received from the BBC was contradicted.

(full article online)

Hamas ‘Hardtalk’ interview rebuts BBC messaging, perpetuates inaccuracies – part one


----------



## Sixties Fan

Throughout the interview Zahar also promoted numerous falsehoods, smears and inaccuracies which went unchallenged by presenter Stephen Sackur – thereby leaving audiences with misleading impressions and false information.

[emphasis in italics in the original, emphasis in bold added]

1) Despite Hamas’ known misappropriation of thousands of tons of building materials intended for the repair and reconstruction of civilian homes damaged during the 2014 conflict and its spending of millions of dollars on tunnel construction and missile production rather than on public services for the impoverished residents of the Gaza Strip, Sackur failed to challenge Zahar’s claim that the poor quality of life in Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas “management”.

Zahar: “Yes, our life is very miserable – not because of bad management on our side but because of the crime committed by the Israeli occupation and by the cooperation of the Palestinian Authority with them and lastly by the impact of the international community, represented mainly by Mr Trump, against our human rights in the most important third shrine in Islam, al Aqsa Mosque.”

(full article online )

Hamas ‘Hardtalk’ interview rebuts BBC messaging, perpetuates inaccuracies – part two


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: IDF destroys Hamas terror tunnel


----------



## Sixties Fan

1967 | As long as the Arab world views Israel as a temporary aberration to be conquered, Israel will stand fast


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Although most do not realize, but the "Introduction" of the aforementioned paper does imply, there is a difference between between the International Criminal Code (Rome Statutes) anf the International Humanitarian Law (IHL • Geneva Convention) pertaining to this issue.  The Rome Statues make it just a bit clearer.



Sixties Fan said:


> The deeper understanding – based on a systematic survey of all available state practice – of the prohibition on settlements should inform legal discussions of the Arab-Israeli conflict, including potential investigations into such activity by the International Criminal Court. More broadly, the new understanding of Art. 49(6) developed here can also shed significant light on the proper treatment of several ongoing occupations, from Western Sahara and Northern Cyprus, to the Russian occupations of Ukraine and Georgia, whose settlement policies this Article is the first to document.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Unsettled: A Global Study of Settlements in Occupied Territories by Eugene Kontorovich :: SSRN


*(COMMENT)*

As often as Article 49(6) GCIV - Settlements is raised, it always amazes me how little people understand the legal consequences.  Everyone talks about the Geneva Code wording, but very few mention the three times it is mentioned in the Criminal Code:

*Article 6 • Genocide*
For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(e)  *Forcibly* transferring children of the group to another group.​
*Article 7 • Crimes against humanity*
1.  For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

(d)  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;​2.  For the purpose of paragraph 1:

(d)  "Deportation or * forcible* transfer of population" means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law;​*Article 8 • War crimes*
1.  The Court shall have jurisdiction in respect of war crimes in particular when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes.

(b)  Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:

(viii)  The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;​
The Article 6 citation and the Article 7 citation are out  -  simply because the action has to be "forced."  And in these two Articles one can readily see that the use of "force" is written directly into the code.  Now, some people argue that Article 8(b)(viii) • War Crime • does not stipulate that it must be "forced;" other argue that the intent s implied.  How do we tell who is correct? (Rhetorical)  Well we look-up the "Elements of the Offense:"

*Article 8 (2) (a) (vii)-1*
War crime of unlawful deportation and transfer

Elements
1.  The perpetrator deported or transferred one or more persons to another State or to another location.

2.  Such person or persons were protected under one or more of the Geneva Conventions of 1949.

3.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established that protected status.

4.  The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with an international
armed conflict.

5.  The perpetrator was aware of factual circumstances that established the existence of
an armed conflict.​Here it is plain...  The Article 8 accusation only applies to persons "protected under one or more of the Geneva Conventions of 1949."

Additionally,  there is an argument to be made that on a subordite level concerning the status of Area "C" lots/property and the jurisdiction of the Israelis relative to the agreement signed, as the sole representative of the Palestinian people.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the sand around Gaza, Israel and Hamas dig in a literal race to the bottom


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In the sand around Gaza, Israel and Hamas dig in a literal race to the bottom


What is Israel going to do when a sensor goes off?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the sand around Gaza, Israel and Hamas dig in a literal race to the bottom
> 
> 
> 
> What is Israel going to do when a sensor goes off?
Click to expand...


Bury more tunnel rats?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *Article 8 • War crimes*
> 1. The Court shall have jurisdiction in respect of war crimes in particular when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes.


plan or policy - indeed.


----------



## Hollie

Gaza in context, indeed.

Decades of silly Islamic terrorist fashion shows.

Indeed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As of 2014, Ma'an was still getting funding from Denmark, Sweden, United States, Catholic Relief Services, Save the Children, and others.

Maybe I'm sensitive, but I think calling for the ethnic cleansing of 6 million Jews is antisemitic. But Ma'an still is a respected news agency in the West.

(full article online)

Editor of Ma'an says the Jews' "visit to Palestine" is over, time for Arabs to take over ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmoore, et al,

You have to apply this a little more specifically.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 8 • War crimes*
> 1. The Court shall have jurisdiction in respect of war crimes in particular when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> plan or policy - indeed.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You have to do a lot better than that.  

•  What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?

•  What is the difference between a large-scale commission of such crimes and that of small-scale commission of such crimes?​
If jurisdiction was so easily to determine, we would not be finishing up on the third year of the Preliminary Investigation _(let alone the prosecutor's criminal investigation)_.  

*•  Jurisdiction – General status  •*

On 1 January 2015, the Government of Palestine lodged a declaration under article 12(3) of the Rome Statute accepting the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC) over _alleged crimes committed "in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since June 13, 2014"_. On 2 January 2015, the Government of Palestine acceded to the Rome Statute by depositing its instrument of accession with the UN Secretary-General. _*The Rome Statute entered into force on 1 April 2015.*_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

What do you think this UNRWA teacher is teaching her students? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"If the State Department is interested in resolving the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the number of actual refugees from Israel's War for Independence must be publicized," Kimball said. "For the approximately 5 million Palestinian Arabs in need of aid, they should be helped after acknowledging they are not refugees. By doing this, we can break the yoke of victimhood and oppression and give these ‘refugees' the human dignity they deserve. UNRWA has failed and it either needs to be drastically reformed or tossed into the dustbin of history."

(full article online)

State Department Hiding 'Game Changer' Report on Myth of Palestinian Refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Contrary to media claims, BDS activists are not “human rights” activists


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.

The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.



Show entries
Search:
*Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years

(full article online)

Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children


----------



## Sixties Fan

In his desperation, Abbas hurls abuse and in all directions. He has resorted to his old-new strategy of warning us that if his demands are not met, World War III will break out. Abbas would like us to believe that the Palestinian issue should remain at the center of the world's attention -- otherwise, there will be bloodshed and violence on the streets of most countries.


Should anyone take Abbas's threats seriously? The answer is simple: No.


The war to destroy Israel is still in full force. The Palestinians have not brought up a new generation that recognizes Israel's right to exist; on the contrary, they have brought up a generation that believes in jihad and death, one that denies any Biblical Jewish history or links to the Holy Land.


(full article online)

Palestinians: Abbas's Big Bluff - Again


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## Sixties Fan

BBC portrayals of the topic usually include the narrative seen in a frequently reused backgrounder on Jerusalem produced by Yolande Knell in which audiences were led to believe that a Palestinian capital in “east Jerusalem” is an already agreed component of the two-state solution rather than a topic to be discussed in final status negotiations.

“Of course, Palestinians see things starkly differently. They want east Jerusalem as their capital.

And that’s part of the long-standing international formula for peace here, known as the “two-state solution”.

Knell also portrayed the two-state solution in terms that dovetail with the PLO’s interpretation of that term.

“Basically the idea that an independent Palestinian state would be created alongside Israel, along the boundaries that existed before 1967, it’s written up in UN resolutions.” [emphasis added]

Of course the prime motivation behind Palestinian claims to a capital in the parts of Jerusalem occupied by Jordan between 1948 and 1967 is control over Temple Mount but the BBC repeatedly fails to adequately clarify that important point to its audiences.

Neither does it bother to inform them of the Palestinian Authority’s record on upholding agreements it has already signed with Israel regarding other holy places.

Under the terms of the Oslo Accords, freedom of access to and worship at holy sites was guaranteed.

“The agreement guarantees freedom of access to and freedom of worship at the holy sites, and defines access arrangements for the holy places located in Areas “A” and “B”. With regard to Rachel’s Tomb in Bethlehem and Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus, special arrangements are set out in the agreement which will also guarantee freedom of access and freedom of worship.”

(full article online)

The BBC’s narrative on ‘East Jerusalem’ omits relevant context


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children


What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
Click to expand...

" Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
They had troops when they invaded.

The Crusaders had troops when they invaded the Land of Israel.
The Ottomans had troops when they invaded the Land of Israel.
The British had troops when they invaded the Land of Israel.


The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

Not historical facts?

Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).

Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?

What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.

Show me the photos, reports, etc.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> "If the State Department is interested in resolving the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the number of actual refugees from Israel's War for Independence must be publicized," Kimball said. "For the approximately 5 million Palestinian Arabs in need of aid, they should be helped after acknowledging they are not refugees. By doing this, we can break the yoke of victimhood and oppression and give these ‘refugees' the human dignity they deserve. UNRWA has failed and it either needs to be drastically reformed or tossed into the dustbin of history."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> State Department Hiding 'Game Changer' Report on Myth of Palestinian Refugees


Israeli bullshit. Israel wants to remove all support for all Palestinians. This is just part of that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not historical facts?
> 
> Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).
> 
> Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Show me the photos, reports, etc.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.


They mooched British troops.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not historical facts?
> 
> Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).
> 
> Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Show me the photos, reports, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They mooched British troops.
Click to expand...

You are mooching your brain and it is not helping.

No proof of anything, do not make the statements.

Jews migrated BACK to their ancient homeland, where Jews have always been present.

Check the history books.

Your first statement was that the Jews were "Foreign invading troops"

And as always, you back it up with air - hot, cold, poisoned air.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
> 
> 
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not historical facts?
> 
> Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).
> 
> Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Show me the photos, reports, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They mooched British troops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are mooching your brain and it is not helping.
> 
> No proof of anything, do not make the statements.
> 
> Jews migrated BACK to their ancient homeland, where Jews have always been present.
> 
> Check the history books.
> 
> Your first statement was that the Jews were "Foreign invading troops"
> 
> And as always, you back it up with air - hot, cold, poisoned air.
Click to expand...

They are not Palestinians but are in Palestine stealing land and attacking civilians.

My assessment is correct.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not historical facts?
> 
> Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).
> 
> Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Show me the photos, reports, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They mooched British troops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are mooching your brain and it is not helping.
> 
> No proof of anything, do not make the statements.
> 
> Jews migrated BACK to their ancient homeland, where Jews have always been present.
> 
> Check the history books.
> 
> Your first statement was that the Jews were "Foreign invading troops"
> 
> And as always, you back it up with air - hot, cold, poisoned air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are not Palestinians but are in Palestine stealing land and attacking civilians.
> 
> My assessment is correct.
Click to expand...

Israel is Palestine and they have been on the land for over 3800 years, unlike the Arabs (call them Palestinians all you like) have been around mostly for the past 1400 years as INVADERS to the land.

Your assessments are as good as your logic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> Not historical facts?
> 
> Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).
> 
> Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Show me the photos, reports, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They mooched British troops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are mooching your brain and it is not helping.
> 
> No proof of anything, do not make the statements.
> 
> Jews migrated BACK to their ancient homeland, where Jews have always been present.
> 
> Check the history books.
> 
> Your first statement was that the Jews were "Foreign invading troops"
> 
> And as always, you back it up with air - hot, cold, poisoned air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are not Palestinians but are in Palestine stealing land and attacking civilians.
> 
> My assessment is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is Palestine and they have been on the land for over 3800 years, unlike the Arabs (call them Palestinians all you like) have been around mostly for the past 1400 years as INVADERS to the land.
> 
> Your assessments are as good as your logic.
Click to expand...

You keep banging away on an issue that is not contested.


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty’s claims that Israel’s legal enforcement is “discriminatory” are also false, as Western democracies’ juvenile legal codes also contain provisions regarding the minimum and maximum sentencing for assault against security officers and members of the armed forces, and incitement to terrorism.
> 
> The following chart compares the maximum sentences for chargers related to assaulting a security officer and incitement to terrorism under Israeli military law with civilian law in Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, and the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Show entries
> Search:
> *Israeli Military Law* *Australia* *Canada* *Germany* *Sweden* *UK*
> Assault on an Officer 5 years 3 years 5 years 3 years 4 years 6 months + fine
> Incitement to Terror 10 years 10 years Life 5 years 6 years 7 years
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amnesty International Ignores the Weaponization of Palestinian Children
> 
> 
> 
> What is the sentence for "assaulting" foreign invading troops?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> " Muslims invading the Land of Israel in the 7th century CE "
> They had troops when they invaded.
> 
> The Jews did not have troops at any time they returned to their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you, Mr. Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not historical facts?
> 
> Show me the evidence that this is not history, but only Israeli talking points (as in It never happened ).
> 
> Are you going to actually deny that what I wrote is historically correct?
> 
> What troops did the Jews invade with at the end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th century.
> 
> Show me the photos, reports, etc.
Click to expand...

British troops uncover an illegal Jewish arms dump at the Great Synagogue in Tel-Aviv.
Arms Dump Found In Palestine

Ashkenazi Jews Arrive in Palestine | 1913: Seeds of Conflict | PBS


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## fanger

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## Sixties Fan

A new kind of "honor" killing in Gaza: "Sorry, son, we hate Israel more than we love you." BANG! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## fanger

Spies are often shot.




A Palestinian man has been killed by his family in Gaza after he was found to be providing information to Israeli security forces, according to a statement released by the family.

Relatives of Ahmed Barhoum said they shot him in the city of Rafah after being told by the Hamas militant group that he had been spying for Israel. 

They said Mr Barhoum's information was used in an Israeli air strike during the 2014 Gaza war which killed three Hamas militants – including Mr Barhoum’s own kinsman.

The family statement said members had seen evidence against Mr Barhoum and heard his confession. 
Palestinian family shoot dead relative believed to be spying for Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Spies are often shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian man has been killed by his family in Gaza after he was found to be providing information to Israeli security forces, according to a statement released by the family.
> 
> Relatives of Ahmed Barhoum said they shot him in the city of Rafah after being told by the Hamas militant group that he had been spying for Israel.
> 
> They said Mr Barhoum's information was used in an Israeli air strike during the 2014 Gaza war which killed three Hamas militants – including Mr Barhoum’s own kinsman.
> 
> The family statement said members had seen evidence against Mr Barhoum and heard his confession.
> Palestinian family shoot dead relative believed to be spying for Israel


It has usually Hamas or other groups who kill the alleged collaborators.

It has never been the family of the person in question.

That is what is new.


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spies are often shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian man has been killed by his family in Gaza after he was found to be providing information to Israeli security forces, according to a statement released by the family.
> 
> Relatives of Ahmed Barhoum said they shot him in the city of Rafah after being told by the Hamas militant group that he had been spying for Israel.
> 
> They said Mr Barhoum's information was used in an Israeli air strike during the 2014 Gaza war which killed three Hamas militants – including Mr Barhoum’s own kinsman.
> 
> The family statement said members had seen evidence against Mr Barhoum and heard his confession.
> Palestinian family shoot dead relative believed to be spying for Israel
> 
> 
> 
> It has usually Hamas or other groups who kill the alleged collaborators.
> 
> It has never been the family of the person in question.
> 
> That is what is new.
Click to expand...

Kapo


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spies are often shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian man has been killed by his family in Gaza after he was found to be providing information to Israeli security forces, according to a statement released by the family.
> 
> Relatives of Ahmed Barhoum said they shot him in the city of Rafah after being told by the Hamas militant group that he had been spying for Israel.
> 
> They said Mr Barhoum's information was used in an Israeli air strike during the 2014 Gaza war which killed three Hamas militants – including Mr Barhoum’s own kinsman.
> 
> The family statement said members had seen evidence against Mr Barhoum and heard his confession.
> Palestinian family shoot dead relative believed to be spying for Israel
> 
> 
> 
> It has usually Hamas or other groups who kill the alleged collaborators.
> 
> It has never been the family of the person in question.
> 
> That is what is new.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kapo
Click to expand...

This article has nothing to do with Hamas and alleged spies for Israel who are killed by their own family.

But keep trying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?


Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.
Click to expand...

But you cannot post one source where there are actual discriminatory policies and practices against non Jews, much less facts on the ground.

And please, do not include Gaza or Areas A and B which are either in control of Hamas or the PA.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs naturally think that Jews obsess over their military defeats - because that is what Arabs do.

Arabs naturally think that Jews are pining to wreak vengeance and re-take the lands that were once theirs - because that's what Muslims are taught.

Jewish kids don't learn about Khybar in school. They aren't taught about their "humiliating" defeat. There are literally thousands of things that are more important to teach.

Arabs like to taunt Jews with the chant "Khybar, Khybar O Jews, the army of Mohammed will return." But the average Jew would not even get the reference. The battle is irrelevant in the scope of Jewish history.

(full article online)

Saudi makes "humiliating" video of ruins of destroyed Jewish community in Khybar ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you cannot post one source where there are actual discriminatory policies and practices against non Jews, much less facts on the ground.
> 
> And please, do not include Gaza or Areas A and B which are either in control of Hamas or the PA.
Click to expand...

UN ESCWA report on Israeli apartheid | Palestine Liberation Organization | West Bank


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmoore, et al,

Part of making the determination is an comparison and evaluation of the standing in Human Development with respect to all the surrounding nations.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The thumbnail view → or → "Facts on the Ground" → are telling.  Working clockwise around Israel, we see:

Israel --- $319B GDP
•  Inflation Rate ≈ 0.40%
•  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 4.3%​
Lebanon --- $48B GDP ↓
•  Inflation Rate ≈ 4.79% ↑
•  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 6.8% ↑​
Syria --- $74B GDP ↓
•  Inflation Rate ≈ 43.2% ↑
•  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 14.3% ↑​
Jordan --- $39B GDP ↓
•  Inflation Rate ≈ 3.20% ↓
•  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 18.5% ↑​
Egypt --- $336B GDP ↑
•  Inflation Rate ≈ 21.9% ↑
•  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 11.9% ↑

Palestine --- $8B GDP ↓
•  Inflation Rate ≈ -0.02 % ↓
•  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 29.2% ↑​
Two important factors that indicate the significant benefits of a competent and benevolent government, working in best interest of the general population and the overall quality of life are:  1)  The Inflation Rate and 2) the Unemployment/Jobless Rate.  Egypt's GDP is slightly higher than that of Israel; but the cost of that marginal difference is an Inflation Rate is over 50 time higher than that of Israel; and the Egyptian Jobless Rate is over six time that of Israel.  Syria, involved in a International Armed Conflict (IAC), so the Inflation Rate is not a true indicator in this case.

One cannot afford the luxury of viewing the Region through the glassy-eyed vision of the single-sided political idealist.  Either a government is successful when it delivers the beneficial outcome in favor of the citizenry --- or  --- it doesn't.


________________________
*"Do  or  DO NOT!.  ⇔  There is no Try."*
⇒  _Yoda, Grand Master of the Jedi Order_
________________________​
The Occupied Territories, are a nation of peope that "do not."  The have held that "do not" characteristic since they reinvented themselves in 1967 as the parasitic Palestine Liberation Organization.  And they are likely to remain that way until they can focus their energies and resources towards peaceful objectives.  And that will necessitate a new face of the government, cleansed of the blantat corruption for which they are renowned.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmoore, et al,
> 
> Part of making the determination is an comparison and evaluation of the standing in Human Development with respect to all the surrounding nations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thumbnail view → or → "Facts on the Ground" → are telling.  Working clockwise around Israel, we see:
> 
> Israel --- $319B GDP
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 0.40%
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 4.3%
> Lebanon --- $48B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 4.79% ↑
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 6.8% ↑​Syria --- $74B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 43.2% ↑
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 14.3% ↑​Jordan --- $39B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 3.20% ↓
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 18.5% ↑​Egypt --- $336B GDP ↑
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 21.9% ↑
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 11.9% ↑
> 
> Palestine --- $8B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ -0.02 % ↓
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 29.2% ↑​
> Two important factors that indicate the significant benefits of a competent and benevolent government, working in best interest of the general population and the overall quality of life are:  1)  The Inflation Rate and 2) the Unemployment/Jobless Rate.  Egypt's GDP is slightly higher than that of Israel; but the cost of that marginal difference is an Inflation Rate is over 50 time higher than that of Israel; and the Egyptian Jobless Rate is over six time that of Israel.  Syria, involved in a International Armed Conflict (IAC), so the Inflation Rate is not a true indicator in this case.
> 
> One cannot afford the luxury of viewing the Region through the glassy-eyed vision of the single-sided political idealist.  Either a government is successful when it delivers the beneficial outcome in favor of the citizenry --- or  --- it doesn't.
> 
> 
> ________________________
> *"Do  or  DO NOT!.  ⇔  There is no Try."*
> ⇒  _Yoda, Grand Master of the Jedi Order_
> ________________________​
> The Occupied Territories, are a nation of peope that "do not."  The have held that "do not" characteristic since they reinvented themselves in 1967 as the parasitic Palestine Liberation Organization.  And they are likely to remain that way until they can focus their energies and resources towards peaceful objectives.  And that will necessitate a new face of the government, cleansed of the blantat corruption for which they are renowned.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Typical colonial crap. Slime the natives.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Song on PA radio encourages Martyrdom for Jerusalem - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmoore, et al,
> 
> Part of making the determination is an comparison and evaluation of the standing in Human Development with respect to all the surrounding nations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thumbnail view → or → "Facts on the Ground" → are telling.  Working clockwise around Israel, we see:
> 
> Israel --- $319B GDP
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 0.40%
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 4.3%
> Lebanon --- $48B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 4.79% ↑
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 6.8% ↑​Syria --- $74B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 43.2% ↑
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 14.3% ↑​Jordan --- $39B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 3.20% ↓
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 18.5% ↑​Egypt --- $336B GDP ↑
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ 21.9% ↑
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 11.9% ↑
> 
> Palestine --- $8B GDP ↓
> •  Inflation Rate ≈ -0.02 % ↓
> •  Unemployment/Jobless Rate ≈ 29.2% ↑​
> Two important factors that indicate the significant benefits of a competent and benevolent government, working in best interest of the general population and the overall quality of life are:  1)  The Inflation Rate and 2) the Unemployment/Jobless Rate.  Egypt's GDP is slightly higher than that of Israel; but the cost of that marginal difference is an Inflation Rate is over 50 time higher than that of Israel; and the Egyptian Jobless Rate is over six time that of Israel.  Syria, involved in a International Armed Conflict (IAC), so the Inflation Rate is not a true indicator in this case.
> 
> One cannot afford the luxury of viewing the Region through the glassy-eyed vision of the single-sided political idealist.  Either a government is successful when it delivers the beneficial outcome in favor of the citizenry --- or  --- it doesn't.
> 
> 
> ________________________
> *"Do  or  DO NOT!.  ⇔  There is no Try."*
> ⇒  _Yoda, Grand Master of the Jedi Order_
> ________________________​
> The Occupied Territories, are a nation of peope that "do not."  The have held that "do not" characteristic since they reinvented themselves in 1967 as the parasitic Palestine Liberation Organization.  And they are likely to remain that way until they can focus their energies and resources towards peaceful objectives.  And that will necessitate a new face of the government, cleansed of the blantat corruption for which they are renowned.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonial crap. Slime the natives.
Click to expand...

You are the ones sliming the natives.

Arabs are natives of Arabia.  Arabia has not moved into ancient Canaan.  It is still in the same place and the Arabs are proud to have come from there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

What about Arab nations that are trying to get closer relations with Israel? Aloul's answer shows that the Palestinian leadership has almost given up on convincing the Arab leaders otherwise:

 Q: If Egypt and Saudi Arabia are making a regional peace plan, what do you do?

"A: We will not do anything. Our decision is clear. We never want to expand the front of our enemies. Our main enemy is the Israeli occupation and the American policy that advocates it. We have no other enemy. We seek to have positive relations with all, with our Arab nation and with the world. If the Arab nations have another position on our cause we leave it to their people and do not open a battle with them."


If I am reading this right, the Palestinians are now more convinced of support from the Europeans than from their fellow Arabs.

This is a "burn your bridges" strategy. Palestinians are betting that the demographic issue combined with BDS and political pressure from the EU will make Israel surrender without the Palestinians having to compromise at all. Of course they won't negotiate - they don't want to make concessions. 

The Arab states have woken up years ago to the fact that their investments in the Palestinian enterprise has been a waste of money. Their support since then has been vocal and symbolic, but not very concrete. 

America is reaching the same conclusion.

(full article online)

What is the Palestinian strategy without negotiations? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Suddenly, people care about hundreds of thousands of children who might attend Hamas-run schools. Yet for the past decade, more than that amount already attended Hamas-run schools in Gaza, and no one has complained about it one bit.  

And UNRWA schools have been using the Hamas curriculum.

If you take Dumper's concern seriously, than he is saying that the average Palestinian child in Gaza has already been recruited to terrorism. Where are the studies about the impact of Hamas on students in Gaza? Where has this concern been for the past ten years?

If anyone would have said that the average Gaza child is being indoctrinated into terror under Hamas rule a month ago, they would be castigated as a right-wing, Zionist, anti-Arab bigot. But suddenly, when UNRWA funding is in crisis, nowHamas schools are problematic.

The implication of these arguments is that Arab parents, media, peer pressure, and governmental messages are tacitly or explicitly supportive of terror, and only UNRWA can save these children from Muslim extremism.

That is bigoted.

(full article online)

People arguing for continuing UNRWA funding are anti-Arab bigots ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A British woman, Kay Wilson, apparently realized that when a Palestinian terrorist "plunged a knife into her chest", left her for dead and then murdered her friend, it was British taxpayers who had paid for it.

"Is the UK funding the terrorists who tried to murder me?", she asked.

Yes, it is. "According to data collected by Israel's Defense Ministry, the PA spent a total of 1.237 billion shekels ($358 million), or about 7% of the PA's total annual budget, on terrorist stipends last year."

International payments to Palestinians that are used to pay terrorists in jail, as well as their families, serve both as a "reward for bad behavior" and also as a powerful incentive for youths to become terrorists.

They are a jobs program.

Some Palestinians are complaining that Arab countries are discriminating against them, and even going as far as calling themselves victims of "shameless Arab Apartheid" against Palestinians.

Such an accusation is unfair to many Arab countries, especially Egypt, which has sacrificed the blood of hundreds of thousands of its citizens to support the Islamic jihad against Israel.

(full article online)

The Terrorism Jobs Program: Pampering the Palestinians Must End


----------



## Sixties Fan

Throughout history, nations and people knew when they were winning and when they were losing. Despite suffering spectacular failures and chronic defeat, Arab leaders in general, and the PLO leadership in particular, pretend as if they are the victors setting demands.

Can you imagine Hitler during the dying days of his Nazi empire, issuing threats and demands to the Allied victors from his Berlin bunker? Would the defeated Napoleon issue threatening demands to the victorious British Duke of Wellington in Waterloo? Of course not. Even fanatics like Hitler knew when the game was over.

Israel’s Muslim Arab enemies and their allies stand out as the only aggressors in human history that become more aggressive and threatening the more they lose.

After failing to prevent Israel’s rebirth in 1948, the Arabs and their allies have spent the past 70 years trying to destroy the Jewish state through military means, terrorism, boycotts, political propaganda, historical revisionism, and legal warfare through the UN and other international organizations. All attempts have failed. While facing many unresolved challenges, Israel thrives like never before.



Israel’s legendary Foreign Minister Abba Eban eloquently put this anomaly in perspective after Israel’s victory over the Arab states in the Six Day War in 1967:

“I think that this is the first war in history that on the morrow the victors sued for peace and the vanquished called for unconditional surrender.”

The US was not popular in post-1945 Japan. However, imperial Japan, which was immensely more powerful than the Arabs were, knew when the game was up and realized that it was in no position to demand anything from the victorious Americans.

For many years, Mahmoud Abbas was considered the “moderate” voice of PLO and a counterweight to the flamboyant and combative leader Yasser Arafat. After Arafat’s death, some Israeli and many Western pundits argued that with Abbas as the new PLO head, peace was just around the corner. For over a decade, Abbas has been the darling of the international Left. Abbas has mastered this double game with great skill in order to keep up the international pressure on Israel. When addressing his international audience, Abbas used carefully worded but false words of conciliation and “peace” with Israel. When addressing his own people, Abbas systematically revealed his opposition to Israel’s existence within any borders. In reality, “moderate” Abbas differed more in style than content from his predecessor Arafat.



(full article online)

Trump Dropped a Truth Bomb on the Middle East


----------



## Sixties Fan

We do not yet know the name of this child. If the father keeps up his training, then we will know his name one day. This kid needs to get over his innocence. Then he will know how he really should behave around Israeli soldiers. If his father is lucky, he will be the next Ahed Tamimi.

(full article online)

This Is How To Create An Ahed Tamimi - Israel Diaries


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is not new evidence.  This is the same people writing the same critique on a different platform.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • What evidence of a government plan or policy do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could look at Israel's laws, the rhetoric of its leader, the consistent and blatant discriminatory policies and practices, the facts on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you cannot post one source where there are actual discriminatory policies and practices against non Jews, much less facts on the ground.
> 
> And please, do not include Gaza or Areas A and B which are either in control of Hamas or the PA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN ESCWA report on Israeli apartheid | Palestine Liberation Organization | West Bank
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It s not authoritative.  It uses an "alternative definition" of apartheid.  But Apartheid can be viewed in terms of the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid [A/9030 (1974)] or •  Article 7 - Crimes against Humanity - Romes Statutes • International Criminal Code.

In essence:  "The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those
referred to in paragraph 1, Article 7 - Crimes against Humanity - Romes Statutes, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; 

Article 7 (1) (j) [Page 12]
*Crime against humanity of apartheid*
Elements

1.  The perpetrator committed an inhumane act against one or more persons.
2.  Such act was an act referred to in article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute, or was an act of a character similar to any of those acts.
3.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established the character of the act.
4.  The conduct was committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of *systematic** oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups.*
5.  The perpetrator intended to maintain such regime by that conduct.
6.  The conduct was committed as part of a  *widespread or systematic attack directed** against a civilian population.*
7.  The perpetrator knew that the conduct was part of or intended the conduct to be part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.​


			
				EXCERPTS:  Article 7 Crimes against humanity said:
			
		

> Introduction
> 
> 1.  Since Article 7 pertains to international criminal law, its provisions, consistent
> with Article 22, must be strictly construed, taking into account that crimes against
> humanity as defined in article 7 are among the most serious crimes of concern to
> the international community as a whole, warrant and entail individual criminal
> responsibility, and require conduct which is impermissible under generally applicable
> international law, as recognized by the principal legal systems of the world.
> 
> ...   ...   ...
> 
> 3.  “Attack directed against a civilian population” in these context elements is understood
> to mean a course of conduct involving the multiple commission of acts referred to in
> article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute against any civilian population, pursuant to or in
> furtherance of a State or organizational policy to commit such attack. The acts need
> not constitute a military attack. It is understood that “policy to commit such attack”
> requires that the State or organization actively promote or encourage such an attack
> against a civilian population.
> 
> A policy which has a civilian population as the object of the attack would be implemented by State or
> organizational action. Such a policy may, in exceptional circumstances, be implemented by a deliberate failure to take action, which is consciously aimed at encouraging such attack. The existence of such a policy cannot be inferred solely from the absence of governmental or organizational action.​



PART - 3.
GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
Article 22 • *Rome Statute* of the International Criminal Court_ RS-ICC _
_Nullum crimen sine lege_

1.  A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in
question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the
Court. 

2.  *The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by 
analogy.* In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.

3.  This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under
international law independently of this Statute.​
Now, the Elements of the Crime, for the RS-ICC, mentions the requirements of  a "racial group or groups;" in this one element alone, presents a dilemma.  IF all Arab Palestinians in the Occupied Territory are treated the same, for the purpose of Article 43, Hague Regulation, then how is the discrimination made?  Is it not true that Israel is much more culturally diverse than Arab Palestine?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Choosing war of destruction against Israel, instead of building an infrastructure for a future country.  Where has all the money for the tunnels gone?  Kaboom !  ]

Report: 97% of Gaza’s Drinking Water at Sewer Quality | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | JNi.Media | 5 Shevat 5778 – January 21, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## fanger

Due to the reduction of electricity to Gaza, the wastewater facility in the Gaza Strip has been shut down, causing overflow into Israel; Israel's Water Authority instructs Sderot and the Sha'ar Hanegev to absorb the sewage of Beit Lahiya and Beit Hanun.  Israel to build pipeline to absorb sewage from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Due to the reduction of electricity to Gaza, the wastewater facility in the Gaza Strip has been shut down, causing overflow into Israel; Israel's Water Authority instructs Sderot and the Sha'ar Hanegev to absorb the sewage of Beit Lahiya and Beit Hanun.  Israel to build pipeline to absorb sewage from Gaza


Well, thank you for that nice article about Israel helping Gaza to deal with their sewage.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Hamas is cultivating terror bases in hospitals, mosques and schools, and continues to invest its energy in military armament, tunnel construction, and planning attacks against the State of Israel. We are not complacent. We know that the next battle, if imposed on us, will be different and harder than the previous one. But we are determined that when it comes, we will be ready and trained. We will surprise and not be surprised, and we will strike the enemy with a hard and cutting blow," added Rivlin.

"The entire world must know and understand that the ones preventing the rehabilitation [of Gaza] are Hamas. Israel is the only entity in the region that transfers - regardless of the situation - the minimal needs to the residents so that they can maintain their well-being. Unfortunately, Hamas is exploiting the plight of Gaza's citizens and using the materials - which are sent to the Gaza Strip for the benefit of the lives of the residents - for terror purposes instead. We must not remain silent in the face of these injustices, and we will not be silent in the face of those who point an accusing finger at us. I appeal to all the nations of the world, to all those who have the ability, and the influence, to pressure the governmental system in Gaza, Hamas, to take responsibility for its actions and the lives of the residents.

(full article online)

'Hamas is turning hospitals into terrorist bases'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Absolutely nothing in White’s argument even slightly undermines the argument that descendants of refugees are not real refugees, that Palestinians are the only people in the world given the right to bestow “refugee” status and benefits to their descendants (and their descendants, in perpetuity), and that that there are only 20,000 or so real refugees from 1948 remaining.

The one example he provides from a UNHCR report, noting that some Afghans have been refugees in Pakistan for 30 years, does not contradict the fact that these Afghan refugees can not pass on their refugee status to children who were born in the host country and never lived in their parent’s country of birth.

He’s right that the mere “passage of time” shouldn’t necessarily remove refugee status from a genuine refugee, but dying most certainly should. 

Remarkably, not only does UNRWA still legitimise and defend the “right of return” and resist resettlement of Palestinian “refugees”, but consider, as refugees, people of Palestinian descent who are citizens of new states (like Jordan or Lebanon), and even Palestinian citizens of Palestinian ruled territories in the West Bank and Gaza.

As we’ve argued previously, if UNRWA’s definition was applied to the 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands between 1945 and 1967, it would make millions of Israeli Jews (who are descendants of those 800,000 refugees) eligible for UNRWA-style refugee status and benefits.

(full article online)

Ben White tries to refute fact that 99% of Palestinian “refugees” are NOT real refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/jewish-compassion-for-real-refugees/


----------



## Sixties Fan

In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.


Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.

(full article online)

EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers


She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.

Where is that illegitimate?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
Click to expand...



1)  Was that her actual yard?

2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.

3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
Click to expand...

OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
Click to expand...


OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
Click to expand...

Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
Click to expand...

They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.

The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.

The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"We have nothing against Jews - but the 'Zionists' control the world" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
Click to expand...

They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.
Click to expand...

Stop.....please stop.......!!!!!

They are the thieves of the Jewish homeland.

They have nothing to protest but against their own Muslim leaders who have distorted their minds into the mess they have become.

They are not getting Jewish homeland for themselves except what will be negotiated, if ever, between the "finally" moderate, peaceful leaders who will want what is best for their people, and not what the Quran continues to demand:  Muslim supremacy over the Jews at any time.

Go.....pass on the message


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Was that her actual yard?
> 
> 2)  In the absence of a peace agreement, Areas B and C are under Israeli authority for the time being.
> 
> 3)  It shows a lack of normal motherly instincts to put her own child in harm's way.  And then taping it?
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.
Click to expand...


You describe a staged confrontation as legitimate but how cowardly that you flail your Pom Poms when it is others who will face consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but they are supposed to protect civilians and their properties, not steal from them and kill them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You describe a staged confrontation as legitimate but how cowardly that you flail your Pom Poms when it is others who will face consequences.
Click to expand...

What they do is up to them. I have nothing to do with it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but the soldiers were not stealing anything and not killing anyone. This was just another staged Pally’wood event that went badly for Pally’wood Studios and went worse for the Pally’wood stooge who is now sitting in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You describe a staged confrontation as legitimate but how cowardly that you flail your Pom Poms when it is others who will face consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they do is up to them. I have nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...


Of course. You’re simply a wannabe, and a coward, who will coerce and push children into situations that will endanger them. You do your Jooooo hating using children as a shield.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why were those IDF goontards in their yard?
> 
> 
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You describe a staged confrontation as legitimate but how cowardly that you flail your Pom Poms when it is others who will face consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they do is up to them. I have nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. You’re simply a wannabe, and a coward, who will coerce and push children into situations that will endanger them. You do your Jooooo hating using children as a shield.
Click to expand...

Take your Jooooo hating and pound it up your ass.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, Nariman deliberately told her young daughter Ahed and cousin Nour to go down there and start trouble with the soldiers, in order to kick them off the property.
> 
> 
> Filming her young daughter attacking soldiers is bad enough; but actually _instructing_ her to do so is even worse child abuse.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Shirley Temper’s Mother Actually Instructed Her to Cause Trouble with the Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> She was telling foreign troops to get out of her yard.
> 
> Where is that illegitimate?
Click to expand...


Where you send a child to confront LEOs. No child should ever be engaged in that sort of activity. Children are to be protected.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were there doing their duty, arresting terrorists or those like Ahed's cousin who had been throwing rocks at civilians or soldiers.
> 
> The Tamimis need to learn to restrain themselves when they see soldiers and not hit, kick, throw rocks, molotov cocktails, or anything else.......and film it while they are doing it.
> 
> The Tamimis do not wish for the IDF to come to their village, stay away from attacks on soldiers and they will stay away from trouble, and the IDF will not have to come into their village and arrest those who are causing severe problems.
> 
> 
> 
> They are protesting land theft and water theft. That is perfectly legitimate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You describe a staged confrontation as legitimate but how cowardly that you flail your Pom Poms when it is others who will face consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they do is up to them. I have nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. You’re simply a wannabe, and a coward, who will coerce and push children into situations that will endanger them. You do your Jooooo hating using children as a shield.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take your Jooooo hating and pound it up your ass.
Click to expand...


Settle down, chuckles. It’s not unfair to call out a coward for shamelessly and recklessly using children to create a staged event that urges those children to use violence. 

You’re insensate Joooo hatreds shouldn't be used to put children in danger.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

Yes, I hve to agree.



Sixties Fan said:


> Absolutely nothing in White’s argument even slightly undermines the argument that descendants of refugees are not real refugees, that Palestinians are the only people in the world given the right to bestow “refugee” status and benefits to their descendants (and their descendants, in perpetuity), and that that there are only 20,000 or so real refugees from 1948 remaining.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------​Ben White tries to refute fact that 99% of Palestinian “refugees” are NOT real refugees


*(COMMENT)*

It should be remembered that there is no international aw, pertaining to Palestinians that exactly defines what the status of "refugee" might be.  The concept that a descendant is a refugee comes from CERI _[the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East *(UNRWA)* Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions *(CERI*)]_ a handbook for UNRWA workers to use in the processing of benefit applications _(UN welfare/unemployment)_.

The Customary Law (which does not describe the applicability to Palestine), in contemporary history, follows the 1951 Convention:

Article 1
DEFINITION OF THE TERM "REFUGEE"

A.  For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall
apply to any person who:

(1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization;

Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfil the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;

(2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.​
The 1951 Convention and/or its 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees also does not apply to those refugees who benefit from the protection or assistance of a United Nations Agency other than Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, such as refugees from Palestine who fall under the auspices of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). Nor does the Convention apply to those refugees who have a status equivalent to nationals in their country of asylum.  If the Palestinians followed the geeneral customary law pertaining to refugees, there would probably be very few.  Why?  (Rhetorical)

I don't know exactly how many remain, but the 1948 War will be some seven decades old this May.  The current life expectancy is less than 75 years.  In five more years, we should not see very many Palestinians that have UNRWA Status _(persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict)_ that have lived through the events.  In ten years, virtually none.

•  Life expectancy at birth:



total population: 74.2 years
male: 72.5 years
female: 75.9 years (2017 est.)

•  Age structure:



0-14 years: 44.78% (male 412,644/female 391,275)
15-24 years: 21.25% (male 192,292/female 189,166)
25-54 years: 28.02% (male 246,518/female 256,543)
55-64 years: 3.4% (male 31,961/female 29,119)
65 years and over: 2.54% (male 23,729/female 21,936) (2017 est.)
It is, in a way, the ability to have an endless supply of refugees as a need to maintain the UNRWA Workforce _(job security)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country;


Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.


----------



## admonit

RoccoR said:


> I don't know exactly how many remain, but the 1948 War will be some seven decades old this May.


Actually there are some estimates:
'However it is currently a matter of dispute whether Resolution 194 referred only to the estimated 50,000 remaining Palestine refugees from the 1948 Palestine War, or additionally to their UNRWA-registered 4,950,000 descendants'
Palestinian refugees - Wikipedia


----------



## ForeverYoung436

admonit said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know exactly how many remain, but the 1948 War will be some seven decades old this May.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there are some estimates:
> 'However it is currently a matter of dispute whether Resolution 194 referred only to the estimated 50,000 remaining Palestine refugees from the 1948 Palestine War, or additionally to their UNRWA-registered 4,950,000 descendants'
> Palestinian refugees - Wikipedia
Click to expand...



It is only the 50,000 remaining refugees.  My grandparents were also driven out of Poland, yet I never considered myself to be a refugee.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This song telling Muslims and Christians to “redeem” Jerusalem is but one example of the anti-Semitism rampant in Palestinian society under the leadership of the PA.

(full article/video online)

WATCH: Palestinian Authority Radio Encourages ‘Martyrdom’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two Israeli-trained Palestinian Arab doctors travel from Jerusalem to Gaza every two months to perform eye operations on local Gazans;

(full article online)

http://www.cogat.mod.gov.il/en/Our_Activities/Pages/Gaza-Corneal-Transplants-15.11.17.aspx


----------



## Sixties Fan

Around 70,000 Palestinians cross into Israel every day through different crossings throughout Judea and Samaria in order to work in Israel in various fields such as construction, industry, agriculture and trade. Many Palestinian workers leave early in the morning to the crossings, go through security checks, which can take time due to the number of workers and other factors, and then continue to their workplace. In order to improve and ease the crossing process the Civil Administration of Judea and Samaria has begun, in the past few months, to implement a new method at the Qalandia crossing for rapid security inspections using fingerprint scanners and tablets. This initiative was started by the officers of the Jerusalem Periphery District Coordination and Liaison and officers from the Civil Administration at Qalandia crossing are supervising the new method. Palestinian workers who have tried out this new system have expressed their satisfaction and its significant reduction of time in their commute.

(full article online)

http://www.cogat.mod.gov.il/en/Our_...the-Life-of-a-Palestinian-Worker-10.5.17.aspx


----------



## Sixties Fan

Around 240 Palestinian farmers and businessmen came to Tel Aviv this year for the Fresh Agro-Mashov exhibition. At the exhibition, they met with their Israeli-business counterparts, created business relations and became familiar with the latest innovations in agriculture.

(full article online)

http://www.cogat.mod.gov.il/en/Our_Activities/Pages/AgricultureConference_11.7.17.aspx


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Around 240 Palestinian farmers and businessmen came to Tel Aviv this year for the Fresh Agro-Mashov exhibition. At the exhibition, they met with their Israeli-business counterparts, created business relations and became familiar with the latest innovations in agriculture.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.cogat.mod.gov.il/en/Our_Activities/Pages/AgricultureConference_11.7.17.aspx


What good is that after Israel stole most of their farm land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 240 Palestinian farmers and businessmen came to Tel Aviv this year for the Fresh Agro-Mashov exhibition. At the exhibition, they met with their Israeli-business counterparts, created business relations and became familiar with the latest innovations in agriculture.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.cogat.mod.gov.il/en/Our_Activities/Pages/AgricultureConference_11.7.17.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> What good is that after Israel stole most of their farm land.
Click to expand...

Why don't you go over there and tell them to their faces that Israel "stole" their land?

Have guts, do some travel !!
No????

Israel could not have stolen anything which did not belong to the poor ancestors of these Arabs.  The land belonged to very few who sold it to Jews and non Jews LEGALLY.

And as we have seen, Egypt stole Gaza and Jordan stole Judea and Samaria in 1948.

Why did neither Egypt, nor Jordan give the land to the Arabs living on it?  Why did they never help them in any way for 19 years?

Keep crying about Jews being sovereign over part of their ancient homeland and being successful at it, as they have always been.

Sniff


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

You are talking in circles.

Listen carefully:

√  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country;
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
Click to expand...


*(COMMENT)*

The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.

No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. 

You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Around 240 Palestinian farmers and businessmen came to Tel Aviv this year for the Fresh Agro-Mashov exhibition. At the exhibition, they met with their Israeli-business counterparts, created business relations and became familiar with the latest innovations in agriculture.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.cogat.mod.gov.il/en/Our_Activities/Pages/AgricultureConference_11.7.17.aspx


Israel trying to destroy Palestinian agriculture.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country;
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;


You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country;
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
Click to expand...

Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?

The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.

And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
There were 4 Mandates.

It is acceptable only if you are going to accept what happened to all of the Mandates. The same has been done after every war. 
Losers lose.  Winners win.

And you lose.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country;
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.


And none of them annexed any territory.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> and owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country;
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And none of then annexed any territory.
Click to expand...

That sentence shows how out of touch you are.
But then, when are you not out of touch with reality?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And none of then annexed any territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That sentence shows how out of touch you are.
> But then, when are you not out of touch with reality?
Click to expand...



Indeed, I always thought Tinmore is wasting his time here.  He should be teaching a class in Abstract Philosophy instead.  He has said that he taught before in Vietnam, when he hypocritically joined in the illegal invasion of that country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Children of Palestinians are Palestinians. They are outside the country of their nationality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And none of then annexed any territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That sentence shows how out of touch you are.
> But then, when are you not out of touch with reality?
Click to expand...

Look it up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> Listen carefully:
> 
> √  There are NO (absolutely NONE) children (Palestinians under the age of 21 years old) that were either refugees from the 1946-1948 Civil War • or the • 1948-1949 Israeli War of Independence • or • the 1967 Six-Day War • or finally • the Sneak Attack of 1973 Yom Kipper War.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last Armistice was signed in July 1949; with Syria...  In order for anyone to hav been displaced prior to that, they would have to be over 68 Years old; over 50 years old to have been displaced from the 1967 War and 45 for the Yom Kipper War.  There are no children in those age ranges.
> 
> No Arab Palestinian was, as a result of any outcome associated with any of these conflicts were forcibly displaced into any of the surrounding Arab League Nations _(bordering or adjacent to)_ the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine; especially those claiming to be displaced in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> You'll have to clarify or amend your statement in order to make it clear.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And none of then annexed any territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That sentence shows how out of touch you are.
> But then, when are you not out of touch with reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...

Sure, lets see what you sources are:

Mondoweiss
Veterans Today
Al Jazeera
Palestinian Authority

May I remind you that the Government of Iraq attacked and killed many Kurds and Shia in Iraq....for their territory

And Sadam also invaded Kuwait, for territory.

So, you are worrying over a legal event which happened after the Allies won WWI, but it does not bother you that Iraq invades others for territories, or other countries for territories.  The same thing with Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc....

It is only the indigenous Jews of Judea that you have issues with about their sovereignty over less than 20% of their original land.

A Jew Hater is a Jew hater, it does not matter where they live.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And none of then annexed any territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That sentence shows how out of touch you are.
> But then, when are you not out of touch with reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, lets see what you sources are:
> 
> Mondoweiss
> Veterans Today
> Al Jazeera
> Palestinian Authority
> 
> May I remind you that the Government of Iraq attacked and killed many Kurds and Shia in Iraq....for their territory
> 
> And Sadam also invaded Kuwait, for territory.
> 
> So, you are worrying over a legal event which happened after the Allies won WWI, but it does not bother you that Iraq invades others for territories, or other countries for territories.  The same thing with Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc....
> 
> It is only the indigenous Jews of Judea that you have issues with about their sovereignty over less than 20% of their original land.
> 
> A Jew Hater is a Jew hater, it does not matter where they live.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection. The Mandates never annexed any territory.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you read or hear things like that, Tinmore?
> 
> The allies won the war, it was up to them to do with the Ottoman Empire conquered lands as they pleased, and so they did.
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> It is acceptable if you are accept about all of the Mandates, although who knows why.  The same has been done after every war.
> Losers lose.  Winners win.
> 
> And you lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And none of then annexed any territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That sentence shows how out of touch you are.
> But then, when are you not out of touch with reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, lets see what you sources are:
> 
> Mondoweiss
> Veterans Today
> Al Jazeera
> Palestinian Authority
> 
> May I remind you that the Government of Iraq attacked and killed many Kurds and Shia in Iraq....for their territory
> 
> And Sadam also invaded Kuwait, for territory.
> 
> So, you are worrying over a legal event which happened after the Allies won WWI, but it does not bother you that Iraq invades others for territories, or other countries for territories.  The same thing with Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc....
> 
> It is only the indigenous Jews of Judea that you have issues with about their sovereignty over less than 20% of their original land.
> 
> A Jew Hater is a Jew hater, it does not matter where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection. The Mandates never annexed any territory.
Click to expand...

You are an ignoramus about the Mandates so you truly have no say about them, period


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, et al

I'll help you read.

I did not say the Mandate had territory.  But there was definite territory to which the Mandate Applied, and was under the jurisdiction established by the Mandate.

What I wrote is not flawed.  You point is merely subterfuge to redirect the primary focus of the post.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> 
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
Click to expand...




			
				Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922 said:
			
		

> PART I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRELIMINARY.
> Title.  →  1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are *the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies*, hereinafter described as *Palestine*.


*(REFERENCE)*

•  "Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom)"  •
•  "establishment of the British mandate over Trans-Jordan,"  •  "proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate"

Sir John CHANCELLOR said that the settlement had been effected before his arrival in Palestine and he was therefore unable to say whether it had been inspired by Article 6. The regulations were, however, certainly in conformity with that article. Progress was being made with the transfer of certain Arab lands to the Jews.
​•  "in their capacity of Mandatory Powers over the countries formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire"
•  "BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE" APG Cablegram •​*(COMMENT)*

Just as a point of order, I very (very) often use my own words to paraphrase a fact in evidence.  It saves me time.  And while it is not impossible for me to be in error _(and I will admit acknowledge so)_ of material facts for which I will apologize.  The very first example _(referenced supra)_ comes from Memorandum "A" - Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate." _(25 Februarury 1948)_

Each Mandate applied to a specific territory.  In the case of the Mandate for Palestine, the Allied Powers Powers granted the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them.  On completion of the survey that final boundaries for which the Mandate was applied were:

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.

 On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.

 The boundaries are described as follows:--

_South._--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.

_East._--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.

_North._--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.

_West._--The Mediterranean Sea.
I find your point to be frivolous and misleading; as if it had some significant bearing on the point of discussion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over the past few years, both the PA and Hamas have been claiming that the terror attacks they celebrate have only targeted soldiers or "settlers."

But both this article and the similar biography of him in the Fatah Facebook page explicitly say that he was involved in the Munich Olympics massacre. It doesn't mention athletes but does say that the "operation" was "famous."

As the PA pivots towards the EU to impose a solution on Israel, as the Arab world and the US are finally treating the PA and the PLO it reports to as the terror group it is, one can only hope that the eyes of the Europeans will also finally open as to who they are dealing with.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority celebrates architect of Munich massacre ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Observations and Questions*

The fact that the UN Secretary-General and the ICC Prosecutor accepted the “State of Palestine” as party to the ICC statute enabled the Prosecutor to open a preliminary examination of the Palestinian complaints. However, there is a legal question as to whether acceptance of “Palestine” as a state, on the strength of a political, non-binding General Assembly resolution, duly follows the accepted criteria in international law for statehood and fulfills the definition of a state as required by the ICC statute.

International law does not recognize General Assembly resolutions as a source of legal authority for granting statehood. Following on from this, the Palestinians cannot give jurisdiction to the ICC over territory over which they do not exercise sovereignty and jurisdiction, and which is subject to an ongoing dispute and negotiation as to its final status.

In this context, one may ask how the ICC, as a juridical institution established on the basis of legal principles and norms, could, in light of the requirements of its statute, rely on a political, non-binding resolution of the General Assembly as a source of authority for accepting a non-state entity claiming to be a state?

The decision to accept “Palestine” as a party to the ICC statute, and to accept Palestinian complaints against Israel was rejected as illegal by the U.S. Administration, and the U.S. Congress adopted a resolution to the same effect on May 18, 2015.[9]

A further legal question is how is it  possible to impart to the ICC legal jurisdiction over disputed territory, the sovereign status of which has yet to be agreed upon between the parties to the dispute?

In this context, the Palestinian leadership and Israel agreed in the 1993-5 Oslo Accords that the permanent status of the territories would be resolved by negotiation between them and not through unilateral action or imposition by international bodies. The Oslo Accords were witnessed by international leaders including the United States, Russia, the EU, Egypt, Jordan, and Norway, and the Accords were endorsed in UN resolutions.[10]

(full article online)

Palestinian Manipulation of the International Criminal Court


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan,

I want to sincerely apologize.  I directly suggested that "YOU" were talking in circles, relative to Posting # 9349.



RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.


*(COMMENT)*

In my hast to compplete the '"comment,"  I addressed you instead of P F Tinmore.  While I did copy P F Tinmore's Post #9340, for some reason _(most probably carelessness and clumsiness on my part)_ I incorrectly addressed it to you.  I only just now noticed it.

Again, my apology.

Very Sincerely,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al
> 
> I'll help you read.
> 
> I did not say the Mandate had territory.  But there was definite territory to which the Mandate Applied, and was under the jurisdiction established by the Mandate.
> 
> What I wrote is not flawed.  You point is merely subterfuge to redirect the primary focus of the post.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine;
> 
> 
> 
> You have a clunker in all of your posts. The Mandate had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRELIMINARY.
> Title.  →  1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are *the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies*, hereinafter described as *Palestine*.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> •  "Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom)"  •
> •  "establishment of the British mandate over Trans-Jordan,"  •  "proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate"
> 
> Sir John CHANCELLOR said that the settlement had been effected before his arrival in Palestine and he was therefore unable to say whether it had been inspired by Article 6. The regulations were, however, certainly in conformity with that article. Progress was being made with the transfer of certain Arab lands to the Jews.
> ​•  "in their capacity of Mandatory Powers over the countries formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire"
> •  "BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE" APG Cablegram •​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as a point of order, I very (very) often use my own words to paraphrase a fact in evidence.  It saves me time.  And while it is not impossible for me to be in error _(and I will admit acknowledge so)_ of material facts for which I will apologize.  The very first example _(referenced supra)_ comes from Memorandum "A" - Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate." _(25 Februarury 1948)_
> 
> Each Mandate applied to a specific territory.  In the case of the Mandate for Palestine, the Allied Powers Powers granted the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them.  On completion of the survey that final boundaries for which the Mandate was applied were:
> 
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> 
> The boundaries are described as follows:--
> 
> _South._--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.
> 
> _East._--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.
> 
> _North._--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.
> 
> _West._--The Mediterranean Sea.
> I find your point to be frivolous and misleading; as if it had some significant bearing on the point of discussion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I did not say the Mandate had territory. But there was definite territory to which the Mandate Applied, and was under the jurisdiction established by the Mandate.


The same applies to all the other new states. Why do you always bring up the Mandate for Palestine but not for the others? Are you trying to confuse people with irrelevance?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It is somewhat difficult to discuss "annexation" during the period of the Mandate, given that none of the key authorities even discuss it; either in a negative sense or one of a positive sense.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have no problem with Lebanon, Syria or the Iraq Mandates.
> There were 4 Mandates.
> 
> 
> 
> And none of them annexed any territory.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*



			
				The Mandate System • [U]Series of League of Nations Publications[/U] VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1 • Part II The Principles of the Mandatory Regime said:
			
		

> *The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character.* While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, *it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.* By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that *"recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country".*
> _SOURCE:  Origin - Principles - Application, Geneva, April 1945_



*(COMMENT)*

The issue of "Annexation is not discussd in connection with the Mandate System.  Why?  (Rhetorical)  Simply because the concept of "Annexation" is a process of sovereign nations.  Territories under Mandate are not sovereign.  Conversely, once sovereign, limitations of the Mandate no longer are applicable.

To my knowledge, there has been no case of annexation during the period of a Mandate.  And there has been no case of annexation involving any territory sovereign to the Arab Palestinians _(not one)_. 

By annexation, we mean:

*Annexation*, a formal act whereby a state proclaims its sovereignty over territory hitherto outside its domain. Unlike cession, whereby territory is given or sold through treaty, annexation is a unilateral act made effective by actual possession and legitimized by general recognition.  (The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica)​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Now you are really confusing me.

•  IF I was involved in a Discussion Thread concerning "all the other new states," THEN I would have mentioned the appropriated material relevant to them.
•  IF I was involved in a Discussion Thread in which I had to discussion Customary Law applications and needed an example, THEN I would have mentioned the appropriated material relevant to them.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say the Mandate had territory. But there was definite territory to which the Mandate Applied, and was under the jurisdiction established by the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> The same applies to all the other new states. Why do you always bring up the Mandate for Palestine but not for the others? Are you trying to confuse people with irrelevance?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But, it was not necessary.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan,
> 
> I want to sincerely apologize.  I directly suggested that "YOU" were talking in circles, relative to Posting # 9349.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In my hast to compplete the '"comment,"  I addressed you instead of P F Tinmore.  While I did copy P F Tinmore's Post #9340, for some reason _(most probably carelessness and clumsiness on my part)_ I incorrectly addressed it to you.  I only just now noticed it.
> 
> Again, my apology.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
Click to expand...

Thank you. I was confused by that as well.

When it comes to nationality, nationality rights, and international law, the people are married to the land. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. It is what I call the people of the place. States, countries, or governments are irrelevant. The people belong to that place.

If someone is Palestinian, his children and grandchildren are Palestinians. Nationality is not lost in future generations. They still have rights to that place.


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan,
> 
> I want to sincerely apologize.  I directly suggested that "YOU" were talking in circles, relative to Posting # 9349.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In my hast to compplete the '"comment,"  I addressed you instead of P F Tinmore.  While I did copy P F Tinmore's Post #9340, for some reason _(most probably carelessness and clumsiness on my part)_ I incorrectly addressed it to you.  I only just now noticed it.
> 
> Again, my apology.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
Click to expand...

Thank you Rocco, I do not think I took it as meaning that you were addressing me.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I wonder if Jenin residents’ passionate support for terrorism and hatred of Jews and Israel has anything to do with the anti-Jewish textbooks that are used in PA schools, or the non-stop anti-Jewish incitement in the PA-controlled media and mosques.

Or maybe that’s all just a coincidence. Maybe how Palestinians behave has no connection whatsoever to what they watch, hear and read from their teachers, imams and political leaders 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Fortunately, the Israeli forces eventually caught up to two of the terrorists. They killed one and captured the other. They were both identified as members of a local Hamas cell.

_Wait, that can’t be! The Palestinian leadership promised, in the Oslo Accords, to disband all terrorist groups, seize their weapons and outlaw them. In other words, to put them out of business. How can it be that, 23 years after the PA took over, Hamas still has active terrorist cells in the city?_

Surely the PA has the means to do the job. After all, the PA has one of the largest per-capita security forces in the world. Yet the PA never outlawed Hamas. It never arrested its members or seized its weapons. The PA treats Hamas like brothers and allows them to operate freely in Jenin, and everywhere else.

But don’t take my word for it. Look at The New York Times. Every once in a while, the truth about the PA and the terrorists manages to slip into one of its articles. On March 23, 2014, The Times reported that Israeli troops were forced to enter the Jenin refugee camp in pursuit of terrorists because although Jenin is under the “full control” of the PA, “the Palestinian [security forces] did not generally operate in refugee camps.”

Let me repeat what The Times said: The PA’s security forces do not operate in refugee camps. It doesn’t matter what the Oslo Accords say about the PA’s obligation to fight terrorists. It doesn’t matter how many Israelis the terrorists murder. The PA is not going to shut them down. Never has, never will.

(full article online)

How one raid tells all you need to know about Israel’s predicament


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Knesset Speaker asked Mogherini to respond to the two-hour anti-Semitic rant Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas gave last week.

"Abbas said that Israel is a colonial project and I would expect a strong reaction from the EU," Edelstein said.

He warned Mogherini not to be taken in by Abbas' pledges in the international arena to pursue peace, as the Palestinian Authority chairman says exactly the opposite when addressing his own people.

"We must pay attention to Abbas' 'doublespeak.' as he speaks one way in English and another in Arabic."

Addressing the opening of a two-day meeting of the Palestinian Liberation Organization’s Central Council in Ramallah on Janurary 14,Abbas excoriated both President Donald Trump over his historic December 6th recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, and the State of Israel and Zionism.

Abbas stated in his speech that Zionism was a European colonial project dating back to the time of Oliver Cromwell and had nothing to do with Judaism, that Zionists cooperated with the Nazis, and uttered an Arabic imprecation hoping that US President Donald Trump's "house" is "destroyed."

(full article online)

'Abbas says one thing in English, another in Arabic


----------



## Sixties Fan

UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.

UNRWA maintains the refugee definition, even for those living in refugee camps within the Palestinian Authority.

UNRWA has 4X more staff member than UNHCR, while UNRWA deals 6X fewer refugees.

UNRWA spends twice as much per refugee each year than UNHCR does – and has never resettled a single refugee.

Conclusion? *Shut down UNRWA and transfer responsibility for resettling  UNRWA’s refugees to the UNHCR.*


(full article online)

UNRWA vs. UNHCR – The Numbers Will Shock You | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press Staff | 7 Shevat 5778 – January 23, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.
> 
> UNRWA maintains the refugee definition, even for those living in refugee camps within the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> UNRWA has 4X more staff member than UNHCR, while UNRWA deals 6X fewer refugees.
> 
> UNRWA spends twice as much per refugee each year than UNHCR does – and has never resettled a single refugee.
> 
> Conclusion? *Shut down UNRWA and transfer responsibility for resettling  UNRWA’s refugees to the UNHCR.*
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA vs. UNHCR – The Numbers Will Shock You | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press Staff | 7 Shevat 5778 – January 23, 2018 | JewishPress.com





Sixties Fan said:


> UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.


UNRWA is strictly an aid agency. They have no authority to work outside that box.

The UNCCP is charged with implementing durable solutions.


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.
> 
> UNRWA maintains the refugee definition, even for those living in refugee camps within the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> UNRWA has 4X more staff member than UNHCR, while UNRWA deals 6X fewer refugees.
> 
> UNRWA spends twice as much per refugee each year than UNHCR does – and has never resettled a single refugee.
> 
> Conclusion? *Shut down UNRWA and transfer responsibility for resettling  UNRWA’s refugees to the UNHCR.*
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA vs. UNHCR – The Numbers Will Shock You | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press Staff | 7 Shevat 5778 – January 23, 2018 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA is strictly an aid agency. They have no authority to work outside that box.
> 
> The UNCCP is charged with implementing durable solutions.
Click to expand...

Then it is the responsibily for the UNCCP to expel all the Convert Synthetic Non Semitic Zionists to their REAL COUNTRY OF ORIGIN,this is the Real Final Solution on this dreadful Crime Against Humanity against the Palestinian People and its Zionist leaders sent to Den Haag,of which the Belgians already have an Arrest Warrant to serve on The Nit and Yarwho,the moment he steps on Belgian soil.but I note the Criminal Bastard refuses to go there..typical gutless Zionist


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.
> 
> UNRWA maintains the refugee definition, even for those living in refugee camps within the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> UNRWA has 4X more staff member than UNHCR, while UNRWA deals 6X fewer refugees.
> 
> UNRWA spends twice as much per refugee each year than UNHCR does – and has never resettled a single refugee.
> 
> Conclusion? *Shut down UNRWA and transfer responsibility for resettling  UNRWA’s refugees to the UNHCR.*
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA vs. UNHCR – The Numbers Will Shock You | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press Staff | 7 Shevat 5778 – January 23, 2018 | JewishPress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA does not try or want to try to resettle the refugees, nor help the refugees move forward with their lives in a new host country, where some are already 3rd and 4th generation UN welfare recipients.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA is strictly an aid agency. They have no authority to work outside that box.
> 
> The UNCCP is charged with implementing durable solutions.
Click to expand...

As usual, you sweepingly miss the point. UNRWA in particular, has been criticized for fraud and mismanagement. It has become a bloated and directionless black hole that aids and abets a welfare fraud pyramid scheme.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What you are citing is a kind of "Fee Simple Absolute" idea:

*Fee* *simple*. In English law, a *fee* *simple* or *fee* *simple* *absolute* is an estate in land, a form of freehold ownership. It is a way that real estate may be owned in common law countries, and is the highest possible ownership interest that can be held in real property.
*Fee simple - Wikipedia*
Fee simple - Wikipedia​The "Fee Simple Absolute" that you describe is cmpletely separate and distinct from *Westphalian Sovereignty* • which is the "modern international system of states" that we see today (in most of the word).

Again, you are confusing estate property law ⇔ with ⇔ international governance law.  I happen to own my house and property, "Fee Simple Absolute."  I don't own the sovereignty and nor is my sovereignty tied to the land.  IF President Trump sells Ohio to the Canadians, I will still own my home and prperty "Fee Simple Absolute;" but the land would then be under the under the sovereignty of the British Comonwealth State of Canada _(a federal parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy, with Queen Elizabeth II being the head of state)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Thank you. I was confused by that as well.
> 
> When it comes to nationality, nationality rights, and international law, the people are married to the land. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. It is what I call the people of the place. States, countries, or governments are irrelevant. The people belong to that place.
> 
> If someone is Palestinian, his children and grandchildren are Palestinians. Nationality is not lost in future generations. They still have rights to that place.


*(COMMENT)*

Sovereignty is a "right" which all people have (including the Arab Palestinian; BUT t is a "right" which places absolutely no obligation on any other.  The Arab Palestinian "Right to Sovereignty" does not require or compel any other state, nation or culture to assist in the establishment of the Sovereignty.  NOR does it give an authority to take or intrude on the Rights of others.

*•  The Responsibilities of Sovereignty  •*
In all three of the situations I have just outlined – stopping genocide, fighting terrorism, and preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction – the principle remains the same: With rights come obligations. Sovereignty is not absolute. It is conditional. When states violate minimum standards by committing, permitting, or threatening intolerable acts against their own people or other nations, then some of the privileges of sovereignty are forfeited. (Source: The US Department of State)​
In the post–World War II  period the international community examined and reassessed several prinicples that were then made inviolate.  One of those principles upheld in WWII was the integrity of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when they were determined. It was an outcome of the Axis Powers jumping the borders of other and assimilating them into their sphere of economic and political control.  The concept had a worldwide impact; one of which was the view of Palestine.  While the Arab Palestinians have the "Right of Self-Determination" and the "Right to Sovereignty," these Arab Palestinians have these rights s long as they do not place an obligation on another to either:

•  take and action,
•  refrain from and action,
•  or forfeit something that is loss to them.



			
				Patricia Carley said:
			
		

> The third basic proposition about the legal context of self-determination is that it is not a “suicide pact” in that it does not oblige any state to subjugate its own self-interest. Law is basically an expression of self-interest and has evolved accordingly over time.
> (SOURCE:  SELF-DETERMINATION:  Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity, and the Right to Secession)


https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/pwks7.pdf​ The application here is simple.  While the State of Israel cannot be compelled to take some action, or refrain from such an action that, forfeit and advantage that would place the state, its citizens, or it survival in jeopardy or at risk ⇒ just to give something the Arab Palestinians what they think is theirs.  The Arab Palestinians and the Arab League Associates, confronted the Israelis militarily several times to achieve in following their anti-Jewish policy; each time losing ⇒ unable to achieve what they denied themselves through a cooperative effort in peace.  In that ⇒ there is no reason in the world why the State of Israel should forfeit any advantage, or return any control to any territory, that would amount to a reward for hostile activity on the part of the Arab Palestinians. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## fanger

*A pretty girl 17 years old did a terrible thing*

*And when a proud Israeli soldier*

*Again invaded her home*

*She gave him a slap.*

*She was born into it and in that slap*

*Were fifty years of occupation and humiliation.*

*And on the day that the story of the struggle will be told*

*You, Ahed Tamimi,*

*The redhead,*

*Like David who slapped Goliath,*

*You will be in the same ranks as*

*Joan of Arc, Chana Senesh and Anne Frank.”*

Israeli poet compares Ahed Tamimi to Anne Frank


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has reported that a host on official PA TV and the Palestinian Coordinator of the Project of the War on Drugs in Jerusalem accused Israel of being responsible for Palestinian drug problems: 









(full article online)

Abbas: "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians  in frightening amounts" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If someone is Palestinian, his children and grandchildren are Palestinians. Nationality is not lost in future generations. They still have rights to that place.



This assertion puts you in a bit of a bind as a philosophical ideal.  

Do you mean to say that my children are Irish, Scots and German nationals because their ancestors are from these territories?  That seems, well, awkward, to say the least.  

But if "nationality" is not lost to future generations and rights follow that generational line, then all Jews worldwide have rights to the place by virtue of their ancestral nationality. (This is exactly what the Balfour Declaration said).  Therefore, all this talk about foreigners and colonizing is false.


----------



## fanger

A Dog can  have puppies in a stable, that does not make them horses 

By the way there is no Scots nationality, they are British


----------



## Sixties Fan

In addition to glorifying terrorism, Fatah and Hamas appear to agree on the need to “escalate” the violence against Israel in response to Trump’s announcement.

Hardly a day passes without a call by both Fatah and Hamas for another “day of rage” against Israel.

Abdel Jaber Fukaha, a senior Hamas official, recently called for escalating Palestinian and Arab protests against Trump’s announcement by staging violent demonstrations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Fukaha also repeated calls by some Fatah leaders to the Arab countries to cut off their ties with the US and any country that recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

Fatah issued a similar call on January 19. In a statement published in Ramallah, Fatah called on Palestinians to “escalate the popular and comprehensive resistance” against Israel. Fatah also called on Palestinians to “turn the lives of Jewish settlers into hell.” This call is a clear message to Palestinians to launch more terror attacks like the one that resulted in the murder of Rabbi Shevach. This, in fact, is the real “license to kill” that Fatah has been talking about. It’s not Trump who gave Israel a “license to kill.” The real license is being issued here by Abbas’s Fatah.

(full article online)

Palestinian Factions Compete to Show Who Hates Israel and US More


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Sovereignty is a "right" which all people have (including the Arab Palestinian; BUT t is a "right" which places absolutely no obligation on any other. The Arab Palestinian "Right to Sovereignty" does not require or compel any other state, nation or culture to assist in the establishment of the Sovereignty. NOR does it give an authority to take or intrude on the Rights of others.


Indeed, that is what I have been saying for years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jane Eisner, editor-in-chief of The Forward and a strong proponent of Palestinian statehood, blasted Abbas in a Jan. 17 editorial. Regarding Abbas’s claims about Israel’s nature and its founding, Eisner wrote, “If Abbas really thinks that is what happened, then he has no business pretending to be a partner for peace. And if he is repeating ugly rhetoric only to please his ever-thinning crowds, then such irresponsibility also disqualifies him.”

(full article online)

Abbas Disqualified as Peace Partner, Concede Left-Wing Groups


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.
Click to expand...

Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.
Click to expand...

It is actually called Living in Peace with the indigenous people of the Land - the Jewish People - and never raising arms against them, as has been proposed since 1920.

Instead, they are living in the 1300 years dream they had of having the Jews under their feet, and continue to wish them underfoot, or nowhere in sight.

Stop ignoring history and using only 1948 as a yardstick, and the wrong way.

Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.

The Arabs lost, continue to lose, and there is no future victory of any kind for them but the needed road to peace and living side by side with a Sovereign Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.
Click to expand...

Or, they could continue to be shiftless dregs who know nothing but exploitation of a welfare fraud system while demanding an entitlement to failure and incompetence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.



You set up a completely false zero sum game.  As though the use of violence as resistance and being forced to leave are the only two possibilities.  They are not.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Journalist Analyzes Why Only A Small Number Of Palestinians Are Demonstrating Against Trump's Recognition Of Jerusalem As The Capital Of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is actually called Living in Peace with the indigenous people of the Land - the Jewish People - and never raising arms against them, as has been proposed since 1920.
> 
> Instead, they are living in the 1300 years dream they had of having the Jews under their feet, and continue to wish them underfoot, or nowhere in sight.
> 
> Stop ignoring history and using only 1948 as a yardstick, and the wrong way.
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> The Arabs lost, continue to lose, and there is no future victory of any kind for them but the needed road to peace and living side by side with a Sovereign Israel.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.


Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is actually called Living in Peace with the indigenous people of the Land - the Jewish People - and never raising arms against them, as has been proposed since 1920.
> 
> Instead, they are living in the 1300 years dream they had of having the Jews under their feet, and continue to wish them underfoot, or nowhere in sight.
> 
> Stop ignoring history and using only 1948 as a yardstick, and the wrong way.
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> The Arabs lost, continue to lose, and there is no future victory of any kind for them but the needed road to peace and living side by side with a Sovereign Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
Click to expand...

Zionists or not Zionists, some Muslims have been taught for 1400 years that Jews are inferior to them and can never have sovereignty over any Muslims.

Now, you go and teach them that living in a sovereign Jewish State is more than ok, and that it is time to negotiate peace for the sake of future generations of Muslims.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?

•  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
•  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
•  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today? 
•  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.

The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

European diplomats and officials told AFP that recognition of Palestine is not an option, that the EU leaves such a move in the hands of individual states, and that the best that Abbas could hope for is progress towards an “association agreement” with the bloc.

(full article online)

Abbas fails to garner European support for 'Palestine'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Journalists Come Out Against BDS Movement, Ramallah Municipality For Banning Lebanese Director Ziad Doueiri's Film In Ramallah


----------



## Sixties Fan

The video, released ahead of International Holocaust Remembrance Day, shows the disturbing statements from the SJP activists against the backdrop of footage from the Holocaust. The statements include the following:


“Hitler should have killed the Jews when he had the chance that dog.”
“Every time I read about Hitler, I fall in love all over again.”
“I feel like a Jew that just entered Auschwitz concentration camp #starving.”
“I honestly don’t feel that sympathetic about the Holocaust. #SorryNotSorry.”
“Hitler should have took you all.”
“We need to put Zionists in concentration camps. Now that would be a life experience for them.”
Watch the full video below (warning: could be offensive to some readers):

(full article online)

Campus anti-Semitism: Hitler should have taken you all


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have made huge strides in the last 20 years.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have made huge strides in the last 20 years.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, they are now the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid in the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have made huge strides in the last 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely, they are now the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid in the world.
Click to expand...

Thanks to Israel stealing or destroying their production capacity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have made huge strides in the last 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely, they are now the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks to Israel stealing or destroying their production capacity.
Click to expand...


Rather, thanks to Arab-Moslem society that is corrupt and incompetent.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have made huge strides in the last 20 years.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says the Palestinians have no choice but to "resist" (code word for commit assault, riot and murder).  Of course they have a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, they could let themselves get the boot like many did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is actually called Living in Peace with the indigenous people of the Land - the Jewish People - and never raising arms against them, as has been proposed since 1920.
> 
> Instead, they are living in the 1300 years dream they had of having the Jews under their feet, and continue to wish them underfoot, or nowhere in sight.
> 
> Stop ignoring history and using only 1948 as a yardstick, and the wrong way.
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> The Arabs lost, continue to lose, and there is no future victory of any kind for them but the needed road to peace and living side by side with a Sovereign Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
Click to expand...


Indeed, they did. Munich.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The most recent article I found was from Ma'an last year:

" Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA -- the UN agency responsible for providing services to some five million Palestinian refugees -- and residing in refugee camps across the West Bank are also barred from voting in elections. According to Palestinian rights group Badil, Palestinian refugees residing outside refugee camps are permitted to vote in national legislative council and municipal elections, while those residing in the camps are only allowed to participate in national elections."

Two things are clear: Palestinian "refugees" do not have full voting rights - and the hundreds of Western reporters and think-tanks who are so fast to warn about any potential erosion of Israeli democracy show zero interest in the fact that Palestinians treat their own so-called "refugees" with contempt.

No one is calling this "apartheid." 

But it is.

(full article online)

Palestinian apartheid against "Palestine refugees" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The night of January 17, 2018, we were witness to another reminder of the success of the hard-hitting strategy adopted by the IDF towards the Arabs in the West Bank – and the failure of containment in Gaza.  In Jenin, the murderer of Rabbi Raziel Shevah was killed and at least one other terrorist apprehended eight days after the crime. Gilad Shalit’s abductors were never punished and his abduction led to the release of over 1,000 terrorists. The lesson: peacemaking must be from the ground up.

(full article online)

In Jenin, Terrorists Get What They Deserve. In Gaza, They Don’t


----------



## Sixties Fan

[   ]

The Palestinian Authority on Tuesday denounced Israel’s finance ministry decision to cut $147,000 from the taxes it collects on behalf of the PA to “compensate collaborators.”

Back in June, the Jerusalem District Court sided with dozens of Arab plaintiffs who sued the PA for health and mental damages after its security forces arrested and imprisoned them in detention dungeons where the plaintiffs were tortured, their healthy teeth were pulled and urine was injected into their veins by PA interrogators.

(full article online)

Ramallah Annoyed with Israel’s Paying PA’s Victims with PA Taxes | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 8 Shevat 5778 – January 24, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

2 Israeli Policemen Shot after Obeying Rules of Engagement | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 9 Shevat 5778 – January 24, 2018 | JewishPress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah Deputy Chairman ignores billions of dollars

in US aid: 
"The American administrations... 
have not given the Palestinians anything of substance"
m 
Palestinians should "strengthen the popular resistance 
so the occupation will become expensive for Israel"

Fatah members are leading the "popular uprising"

All US administrations should be told: "May your houses be destroyed"
(full article online)

Abbas' deputy ignores US aid: The US administrations haven`t given us anything of substance  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today's UNRWA irony ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Daniel Pipes' $1 million offer for "Palestinian refugees"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Daniel Pipes: UN inflates Palestinian refugee figures


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have made huge strides in the last 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely, they are now the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks to Israel stealing or destroying their production capacity.
Click to expand...

lol  What production capacity?  They are clearly among the most incompetent people in the world, who acquiesce generation after generation to being ruled by murderous gangs who have executed thousands of them for simply not enthusiastically endorsing their policies and diverting all their energy and resources into hating Jews and murdering Jews.  This is clearly a basket case culture.


----------



## fanger

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sarcasm aside, that approach is not going to benefit the Arab Palestinians.  At some point, the Arab Palestinians have to ask themselves:  What has been achieved in the last Century that makes them think their are on the road to progress?
> 
> •  How much have they achieved through the armed struggle?
> •  What condition were the Arab Palestinians in a Century ago, in comparison with today?
> •  For all the arguments about the "rights of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity," what have the achieved today?
> •  What do they expect to achieve in the future? How long is it going to take?​
> ✪  _Just think how much further and better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they have accepted the Partition in 1948; and stopped the Arab League attack._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs chose to attack Jews, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether you believe this foreign invasion nonsense or not, it makes no difference.  You'll have to work with  what is real today; not what you dream about it being.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are exactly right where they chose to be in the decisions they made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)
The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The night of January 17, 2018, we were witness to another reminder of the success of the hard-hitting strategy adopted by the IDF towards the Arabs in the West Bank – and the failure of containment in Gaza.  In Jenin, the murderer of Rabbi Raziel Shevah was killed and at least one other terrorist apprehended eight days after the crime. Gilad Shalit’s abductors were never punished and his abduction led to the release of over 1,000 terrorists. The lesson: peacemaking must be from the ground up.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In Jenin, Terrorists Get What They Deserve. In Gaza, They Don’t


David weinberg, another immigrant  Biography


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## fanger

Thats rich coming from $30,000,000,000 welfare recipient, israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Thats rich coming from $30,000,000,000 welfare recipient, israel


Enumerate the things that the PA and UNWRA and Hamas give back to the US for the Millions or Billions they have gotten so far.....
compared to what the US does loan Israel or any other country.

You are definitely not interested in the meaning of loan vs welfare.

Much less in the ways Israel protects the USA and many other countries.

The Invaluable U.S.-Israeli Alliance

3 Reasons Why U.S.-Israel Economic Ties are Important

---------------

What does the USA and the world get out of the money it gives PA, UNWRA ( which ends up with Hamas ) ?

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

(Endless chants of "Death to America"  " America is the enemy", so on and so forth.  Burning of the American flag.

Where does the money go?
Mostly to teach the Gaza and PA Territories hatred for America unless the Arabs get their way in schools, media, etc. 

And even more ends up in the pockets of Hamas and Fatah, who live in luxury, expensive mansions and cars off American and EU and some Arab countries "donations".

Let us not forget how Arafat got to afford buying a place for his wife
in Paris.


One country, Israel, works and gives back for the good of the world.

Two territories, the PA and Gaza, live off the foolish belief of others that these Arabs really want to ever sign a Peace treaty with Israel, 
and are really making the lives of those territories better, rather than making the leaders richer than they ever thought possible.

It is the OIL they do not have in their territories, which just keeps coming and coming......


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Al Quds al Arabi, he quotes a Palestinian researcher called Nabil ‘Alqam. 'Alqam  who mentioned a statistic, which was taken from a book called “Orientalism, Zionism, and Popular Folklore”, by Mun’im Haddad, a professor at Haifa University.

According to Haddad, out of 18,500 stories that are purportedly from the Israeli heritage/folklore that Haddad recorded, 11,944 are really from Arab folklore, told by Jews from Arab and Islamic countries, and out of those, 215 are Palestinian stories.

So specific! It must be true!  (Although I'm surprised that there are over 18,000 Israeli folklore stories. Unless he means "Jewish.")

(full article online)

Palestinians claim that Israel, in the 1950s, had committees to steal Palestinian heritage ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In Al Quds al Arabi, he quotes a Palestinian researcher called Nabil ‘Alqam. 'Alqam  who mentioned a statistic, which was taken from a book called “Orientalism, Zionism, and Popular Folklore”, by Mun’im Haddad, a professor at Haifa University.
> 
> According to Haddad, out of 18,500 stories that are purportedly from the Israeli heritage/folklore that Haddad recorded, 11,944 are really from Arab folklore, told by Jews from Arab and Islamic countries, and out of those, 215 are Palestinian stories.
> 
> So specific! It must be true!  (Although I'm surprised that there are over 18,000 Israeli folklore stories. Unless he means "Jewish.")
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians claim that Israel, in the 1950s, had committees to steal Palestinian heritage ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Israel has consistently tried to erase Palestine out of history.


----------



## admonit

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Al Quds al Arabi, he quotes a Palestinian researcher called Nabil ‘Alqam. 'Alqam  who mentioned a statistic, which was taken from a book called “Orientalism, Zionism, and Popular Folklore”, by Mun’im Haddad, a professor at Haifa University.
> 
> According to Haddad, out of 18,500 stories that are purportedly from the Israeli heritage/folklore that Haddad recorded, 11,944 are really from Arab folklore, told by Jews from Arab and Islamic countries, and out of those, 215 are Palestinian stories.
> 
> So specific! It must be true!  (Although I'm surprised that there are over 18,000 Israeli folklore stories. Unless he means "Jewish.")
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians claim that Israel, in the 1950s, had committees to steal Palestinian heritage ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has consistently tried to erase Palestine out of history.
Click to expand...

You cannot erase something that never existed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Al Quds al Arabi, he quotes a Palestinian researcher called Nabil ‘Alqam. 'Alqam  who mentioned a statistic, which was taken from a book called “Orientalism, Zionism, and Popular Folklore”, by Mun’im Haddad, a professor at Haifa University.
> 
> According to Haddad, out of 18,500 stories that are purportedly from the Israeli heritage/folklore that Haddad recorded, 11,944 are really from Arab folklore, told by Jews from Arab and Islamic countries, and out of those, 215 are Palestinian stories.
> 
> So specific! It must be true!  (Although I'm surprised that there are over 18,000 Israeli folklore stories. Unless he means "Jewish.")
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians claim that Israel, in the 1950s, had committees to steal Palestinian heritage ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has consistently tried to erase Palestine out of history.
Click to expand...

Palestine IS Israel 

Israel IS Palestine

Just ask the Romans who renamed the Jewish homeland after the 135 CE JEWISH revolt of Bar Kochba.

What did they change the Jewish homeland's name to?

*Syria Palaestina* was a Roman province between 135 and about 390.[1] It was established by the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judaea, following the defeat of the Bar Kokhba revolt in AD 135. Shortly after 193, the northern regions were split off as Syria Coele in the north and Phoenice in the south, and the province Syria Palaestina was reduced to Judea

Syria Palaestina - Wikipedia


(Now, where exactly were the Arabs, who now call themselves Palestinians at this stage in time?)


----------



## P F Tinmore

admonit said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Al Quds al Arabi, he quotes a Palestinian researcher called Nabil ‘Alqam. 'Alqam  who mentioned a statistic, which was taken from a book called “Orientalism, Zionism, and Popular Folklore”, by Mun’im Haddad, a professor at Haifa University.
> 
> According to Haddad, out of 18,500 stories that are purportedly from the Israeli heritage/folklore that Haddad recorded, 11,944 are really from Arab folklore, told by Jews from Arab and Islamic countries, and out of those, 215 are Palestinian stories.
> 
> So specific! It must be true!  (Although I'm surprised that there are over 18,000 Israeli folklore stories. Unless he means "Jewish.")
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians claim that Israel, in the 1950s, had committees to steal Palestinian heritage ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has consistently tried to erase Palestine out of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot erase something that never existed.
Click to expand...

I rest my case.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine isn’t a Hebrew or Arabic word. The Greeks used it to describe the area. And when the Romans and their Arab mercenaries repressed the indigenous Jewish population, they renamed it all Palestine.

Palestine, after the Philistines: but why did the Greeks and Romans name the area after the Philistines?

The Philistines were one of the Greek origin sea peoples who had originally invaded and colonized the area. The Jewish resistance to Philistine colonialism is chronicled in the histories of Samson, King Saul and King David. It was natural for the Greek and Roman colonies that the Jews of the Second Temple era clashed with to use “Palestine”, the name associated with earlier colonies, to refer to their new colonies.

(full article online)

Sultan Knish: The Big Palestine Lie


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestine isn’t a Hebrew or Arabic word. The Greeks used it to describe the area. And when the Romans and their Arab mercenaries repressed the indigenous Jewish population, they renamed it all Palestine.
> 
> Palestine, after the Philistines: but why did the Greeks and Romans name the area after the Philistines?
> 
> The Philistines were one of the Greek origin sea peoples who had originally invaded and colonized the area. The Jewish resistance to Philistine colonialism is chronicled in the histories of Samson, King Saul and King David. It was natural for the Greek and Roman colonies that the Jews of the Second Temple era clashed with to use “Palestine”, the name associated with earlier colonies, to refer to their new colonies.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sultan Knish: The Big Palestine Lie


So?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestine isn’t a Hebrew or Arabic word. The Greeks used it to describe the area. And when the Romans and their Arab mercenaries repressed the indigenous Jewish population, they renamed it all Palestine.
> 
> Palestine, after the Philistines: but why did the Greeks and Romans name the area after the Philistines?
> 
> The Philistines were one of the Greek origin sea peoples who had originally invaded and colonized the area. The Jewish resistance to Philistine colonialism is chronicled in the histories of Samson, King Saul and King David. It was natural for the Greek and Roman colonies that the Jews of the Second Temple era clashed with to use “Palestine”, the name associated with earlier colonies, to refer to their new colonies.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sultan Knish: The Big Palestine Lie


So....

When you learn to love history and respect it....

Get back to us


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Unemployment is high, so is poverty......by Millions must be spent for Abbas' comfort ]

Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.

Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.

(full article online)

Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Unemployment is high, so is poverty......by Millions must be spent for Abbas' comfort ]
> 
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report




Outrageous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Unemployment is high, so is poverty......by Millions must be spent for Abbas' comfort ]
> 
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report


What can you expect for a foreign appointed oligarch?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Unemployment is high, so is poverty......by Millions must be spent for Abbas' comfort ]
> 
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
> 
> 
> 
> What can you expect for a foreign appointed oligarch?
Click to expand...


There you go again, denigrating a true hero of a mini-caliphate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Unemployment is high, so is poverty......by Millions must be spent for Abbas' comfort ]
> 
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
> 
> 
> 
> What can you expect for a foreign appointed oligarch?
Click to expand...

[He can only be a foreign appointed oligarch if YOU choose to continue to live under rocks, and you continue to insist that Israel does not exist, that the Jews are "polyester" Jews and not the indigenous people of the land which was invaded by Abbas' ancestors or fellow Arab clans]

Timeline:
1959 - Founding member of the Palestinian National Liberation Movement (Fatah), which became the largest political group of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO).
1964 - Fatah joins the PLO. 
1967 - Is appointed to Fatah's Central Committee. 
1968 - Joins the Palestinian National Council (PNC). 
1980 - Is elected to the PLO's Executive Committee. 
September 1993 - Accompanies Arafat to the White House to sign the Oslo Accords, or the Declaration of Principles.


----------



## admonit

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.


Prime minister’s private jet flying over-budget


----------



## Sixties Fan

admonit said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> 
> 
> Prime minister’s private jet flying over-budget
Click to expand...

He is yet to fly on it, if ever I would say.
Yeahp, the possible waste of money is a sting, but it is not coming from the endless donations Abbas gets to make his people's lives better, which he refuses to do.

Palestine, not a State.
Israel, a State.

Palestine, not a wealthy country which gives nothing but terrorism to the world.
Israel, a wealthy country which gives from health to agriculture to technology to the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> 
> 
> Prime minister’s private jet flying over-budget
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is yet to fly on it, if ever I would say.
> Yeahp, the possible waste of money is a sting, but it is not coming from the endless donations Abbas gets to make his people's lives better, which he refuses to do.
> 
> Palestine, not a State.
> Israel, a State.
> 
> Palestine, not a wealthy country which gives nothing but terrorism to the world.
> Israel, a wealthy country which gives from health to agriculture to technology to the world.
Click to expand...

What has Abbas ever done to make Palestinians life better?

Let me know if you find something.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s prime minister does not have and has never had a private plane.
> 
> 
> 
> Prime minister’s private jet flying over-budget
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is yet to fly on it, if ever I would say.
> Yeahp, the possible waste of money is a sting, but it is not coming from the endless donations Abbas gets to make his people's lives better, which he refuses to do.
> 
> Palestine, not a State.
> Israel, a State.
> 
> Palestine, not a wealthy country which gives nothing but terrorism to the world.
> Israel, a wealthy country which gives from health to agriculture to technology to the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Abbas ever done to make Palestinians life better?
> 
> Let me know if you find something.
Click to expand...

He is their President.
And how he and Arafat and all others misuse and squander the money "donated" to them, is the point.

That is what the article was about.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The misuse and squander of money and education ]

Since 1999, Hamas has been chosen in successive internal UNRWA elections in Gaza to lead the workers union and teachers union of UNRWA, as mentors who influence generations of Palestinian refugee descendants to launch a violent Jihad for the 'right of return' to Arab villages lost during the 1948 war.


In that context, the first comprehensive study of UNRWA school books, completed in July 2017, reflects the terrorist domination of UNRWA schools. This study found UNRWA texts to be characterized by de-legitimization of Israel, rejection of the Jews’ very presence in the country, demonization of Israel and the Jewish people, while promoting the violent liberation of all of Palestine – including Israel’s pre-1967 territories – instead of adhering to UN values of peace and co-existence.

Moreover, UNRWA schools encourage children to engage in acts of war by way of presenting war against Israel as an inevitable necessity, including the violent return of the descendants of Arab refugees to a liberated pre-67 Palestine, through veneration of Jihad, martyrdom and Palestinian individuals who participate in the armed rebellion (called Fidais – those who sacrifice themselves, or martyrs and prisoners-of-war when killed or imprisoned). A decisive element in the UNRWA indoctrination is the inclusion of the official anthems of both the Palestinian Authority and its dominant body – the Fatah organization – which are taught to students of the lower grades:

(full article online)

Should UNRWA schools be padlocked?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ The misuse and squander of money and education ]
> 
> Since 1999, Hamas has been chosen in successive internal UNRWA elections in Gaza to lead the workers union and teachers union of UNRWA, as mentors who influence generations of Palestinian refugee descendants to launch a violent Jihad for the 'right of return' to Arab villages lost during the 1948 war.
> 
> 
> In that context, the first comprehensive study of UNRWA school books, completed in July 2017, reflects the terrorist domination of UNRWA schools. This study found UNRWA texts to be characterized by de-legitimization of Israel, rejection of the Jews’ very presence in the country, demonization of Israel and the Jewish people, while promoting the violent liberation of all of Palestine – including Israel’s pre-1967 territories – instead of adhering to UN values of peace and co-existence.
> 
> Moreover, UNRWA schools encourage children to engage in acts of war by way of presenting war against Israel as an inevitable necessity, including the violent return of the descendants of Arab refugees to a liberated pre-67 Palestine, through veneration of Jihad, martyrdom and Palestinian individuals who participate in the armed rebellion (called Fidais – those who sacrifice themselves, or martyrs and prisoners-of-war when killed or imprisoned). A decisive element in the UNRWA indoctrination is the inclusion of the official anthems of both the Palestinian Authority and its dominant body – the Fatah organization – which are taught to students of the lower grades:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Should UNRWA schools be padlocked?


Israel has always been trying to get UNWRA to teach Israel's bullshit version of history.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ fanger, et al,

Well, you're really stretching the true when you say this.



fanger said:


> Thats rich coming from $30,000,000,000 welfare recipient, israel


*(COMMENT)*

The US does NOT render any monetary support for Israel use in the assistance provided to individuals and organizations to help the unemployed, those with illness or disability, the elderly, those with dependent children, veterans or the maintain Works Agency for Refugees.  This is what is considered welfare payments.  In this regard, Israel can independently maintain themselves.

The UN Relief and Works Agency - for Palestinians (UNRWA) Commissioner-General recently implied that the abrupt cut in US contributions to the UNRWA would be "harmful and risked destabilizing the Middle East."  This is a bit odd in that the Mahmoud Abbas made light about the insignificance of the US Donation, and saying the Palestinians do not need it.  Yet over twenty International Humanitarian Groups have requested the US to reconsider, citing "dire consequences" in the action.
BTW:  *IF* the US is placed in the position that it MUST make the contribution
or be responsible for regional destabilization and adverse consequences, *THEN*
the contribution is no longer a donation - but becomes a form of blackmail.
It becomes conditional:  Pay-up or else! (Be responsible for the consequences.)

*Q:  *What is the better position for the US to maintain?

✪ ⇒  America, while making contributions, take abuse from the
pro-Palestinian collaborators.  _(We pay for the abuse here.)_
✪ ⇒  America, stops making contributions, and takes abuse from
the pro-Palestinian collaborators. _(We get the abuse free here.)_​
There is no requirement for the Americans to explain why they would make certain contributions and not others; --- or why --- America gives certain types of aid to one country and not others.  Americans do not have to explain or justify these actions.  _(It does so as a matter of diplomatic protocol - in the maintenance of international peace and security and for the development of Friendly relations.)_  And America, as a nation, is not responsible for maintaining the Regional Peace in the Middle East, or elsewhere in the world.  America takes council from its own, and advise from others.  But at the end of the day, it must be (to a degree) utilitarian; working in its own best interest. 

While the US has agreed to provide $3Billion per year _(for the next 10 years)_ in military aid to Israel, it is not so dissimilar to the military aid it opened up to Egypt in 2014 ($575M).  But these military aid packages are contingent on the advancement of the US Agenda and Interests _(military, political, economic, industrial and commercial)_ which Israel might be able to assst the US with.  As in the case of Egypt, the US has decided _(this year)_ to withhold some military aid ($195M) and other developmental aid of the improvement of the impoverished ($96M) over a dispute about the restrictions placed on certain Human Rights groups.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

*1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.

*2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)

*3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.

*4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.

*5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.

(full article online)

Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Would the results be any different if the PA / UNWRA curriculum in the Palestinian schools were different than what they are ?  ]

A joint poll by the Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace Research (TSC), Tel Aviv University and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) shows that Palestinians are against any possible solution to the conflict.

(full article online)

New poll shows Palestinian Arabs don't want peace, under ANY circumstances ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

So it _is _possible. There's no cosmic force, no unbreachable journalistic rule, preventing mainstream American publications from focusing on Mahmoud Abbas's indiscretions. 

We know this because _The Atlantic_ did just that — addressed vile rhetoric by the Palestinian president — and nothing happened, aside from the expected: Readers were told what the Palestinian president said, and ended up more fully informed about the man and the conflict he has failed to resolve. 

Forthright reporting on Abbas shouldn't be so hard. But too many in the media have struggled with the task. The ugliest of utterances from his mouth have been concealed by those tasked with reporting on them, those same journalists who otherwise seem to believe the Arab-Israeli conflict is the epicenter of world news. So when Abbas recently said, in reference to Jews, that there is "no one better at falsifying history or religion than them," citing God himself to substantiate the anti-Semitic libel, the media silence was deafening.

(full article online)

CAMERA: Breaking the Media Silence on Mahmoud Abbas


----------



## Sixties Fan

There's a dispute among Arabists if Abbas' remark that "If you have weapons, go ahead. I'm with you, and I will help you. Anyone who has weapons can go ahead" was a cynical remark rather than a serious statement. 

They note that in the same remarks, Abbas said he supports only "peaceful popular resistance" - which is Arabic for trying to murder people "only" with fire bombs and rocks. 

But that's not the point. 

The question isn't the rhetoric. It’s the action. 

Pop quiz: 

Here are two statements: 

#1. If you have weapons, go ahead. I'm with you, and I will help you. 

#2. I support peaceful popular resistance. 

Here is a policy: 

Any Palestinian who is sent to Israeli prison for murdering Israelis - no matter what the circumstances - shall receive a salary for the rest of his life at the level of the highest security officer serving in the Palestinian Authority. 

Question: Which statement matches the policy? Statement #1 or Statement #2? 

If you answered "Statement #2" then you are what is known as a "useful idiot".

(full article online)

IMRA - Thursday, January 25, 2018 Weekly Commentary: Yes - Abbas Does Support Anyone Who Uses Weapons!


----------



## Sixties Fan

‘Oslo Accords are dead,’ Abbas tells Israeli left-wing leader


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.
> 
> *2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)
> 
> *3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.
> 
> *4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.
> 
> *5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA


What many do not understand is that most aid to the Palestinians benefit Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.
> 
> *2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)
> 
> *3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.
> 
> *4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.
> 
> *5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> What many do not understand is that most aid to the Palestinians benefit Israel.
Click to expand...

Name the benefits to Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.
> 
> *2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)
> 
> *3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.
> 
> *4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.
> 
> *5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> What many do not understand is that most aid to the Palestinians benefit Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name the benefits to Israel
Click to expand...

About 1/3 of Palestine's budget goes to security. This security is not allowed to protect Palestinians. It is to protect Israel.

Palestine is a captive market. Virtually everything they buy is purchased from Israel. Like going to the movies. There is only one source for refreshments. Nothing else is allowed in.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.
> 
> *2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)
> 
> *3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.
> 
> *4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.
> 
> *5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> What many do not understand is that most aid to the Palestinians benefit Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name the benefits to Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About 1/3 of Palestine's budget goes to security. This security is not allowed to protect Palestinians. It is to protect Israel.
> 
> Palestine is a captive market. Virtually everything they buy is purchased from Israel. Like going to the movies. There is only one source for refreshments. Nothing else is allowed in.
Click to expand...

Show your sources, since you have never been there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.
> 
> *2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)
> 
> *3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.
> 
> *4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.
> 
> *5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> What many do not understand is that most aid to the Palestinians benefit Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name the benefits to Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About 1/3 of Palestine's budget goes to security. This security is not allowed to protect Palestinians. It is to protect Israel.
> 
> Palestine is a captive market. Virtually everything they buy is purchased from Israel. Like going to the movies. There is only one source for refreshments. Nothing else is allowed in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show your sources, since you have never been there.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1)* That UNRWA hand over all of its responsibilities to UNHCR and close up shop, completely and permanently.
> 
> *2)* That UNHCR bring in its own personnel at least at the managerial level, and commit to ending all cooperation with terrorists. (e.g. by employing Hamas personnel and allowing Hamas to store weapons and tunnel entrances in its facilities.)
> 
> *3)* That UNHCR identify who/how many of the people registered as eligible for UNRWA services actually meet UNHCR’s definition of refugees. Only the latter would be eligible for services/aid from UNHCR.
> 
> *4)* That UNHCR review all educational materials and revise/remove anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda from them.
> 
> *5)* That UNHCR prepare a written plan to integrate Palestinian refugees into their host countries and/or resettle them in another country outside of the conflict zone.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Beyond the Money: A Modest Proposal to Remake UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> What many do not understand is that most aid to the Palestinians benefit Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name the benefits to Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About 1/3 of Palestine's budget goes to security. This security is not allowed to protect Palestinians. It is to protect Israel.
> 
> Palestine is a captive market. Virtually everything they buy is purchased from Israel. Like going to the movies. There is only one source for refreshments. Nothing else is allowed in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show your sources, since you have never been there.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

There is no "State of Palestine".

And this is a pro Palestinian News site.

Try giving me a non bipartisan source where it actually says how things are, and how the PA spends all the Millions/Billions the USA, EU and others give it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ These are the Pro Palestinians ]

While there were many kudos and expressions of support in response to a post by Israeli actress Gal Gadot – to some, better known as ‘Wonder Woman’ – who tweeted her support for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the world-renowned actress was viciously attacked by pro-Palestinian Authority anti-Semites as well.

(full article online)

Israeli Actress Gal Gadot Attacked for Holocaust Remembrance Day Stand


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ These are the Pro Palestinians ]
> 
> While there were many kudos and expressions of support in response to a post by Israeli actress Gal Gadot – to some, better known as ‘Wonder Woman’ – who tweeted her support for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the world-renowned actress was viciously attacked by pro-Palestinian Authority anti-Semites as well.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Actress Gal Gadot Attacked for Holocaust Remembrance Day Stand


You bitch about my source and your next post you link to a Jewish site.

Priceless.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ These are the Pro Palestinians ]
> 
> While there were many kudos and expressions of support in response to a post by Israeli actress Gal Gadot – to some, better known as ‘Wonder Woman’ – who tweeted her support for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the world-renowned actress was viciously attacked by pro-Palestinian Authority anti-Semites as well.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Actress Gal Gadot Attacked for Holocaust Remembrance Day Stand
> 
> 
> 
> You bitch about my source and your next post you link to a Jewish site.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...


Indeed, your sources are silly YouTube videos.

Clueless.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ These are the Pro Palestinians ]
> 
> While there were many kudos and expressions of support in response to a post by Israeli actress Gal Gadot – to some, better known as ‘Wonder Woman’ – who tweeted her support for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the world-renowned actress was viciously attacked by pro-Palestinian Authority anti-Semites as well.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Actress Gal Gadot Attacked for Holocaust Remembrance Day Stand
> 
> 
> 
> You bitch about my source and your next post you link to a Jewish site.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, your sources are silly YouTube videos.
> 
> Clueless.
Click to expand...

A Canadian Jew interviewing an Israeli Jew and you still bitch.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ These are the Pro Palestinians ]
> 
> While there were many kudos and expressions of support in response to a post by Israeli actress Gal Gadot – to some, better known as ‘Wonder Woman’ – who tweeted her support for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the world-renowned actress was viciously attacked by pro-Palestinian Authority anti-Semites as well.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli Actress Gal Gadot Attacked for Holocaust Remembrance Day Stand
> 
> 
> 
> You bitch about my source and your next post you link to a Jewish site.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, your sources are silly YouTube videos.
> 
> Clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Canadian Jew interviewing an Israeli Jew and you still bitch.
Click to expand...


I just find it comical that you so desperately cling to canned YouTube videos for the skewed “phacts” you want to believe.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian Activists in Bethlehem Burn Posters of VP Pence to Protest His Visit*

A group of Palestinian activists in Bethlehem staged a demonstration to protest the visit of U.S. Vice President Michael Pence. The activists chanted slogans such as "Palestine is free" and "America is the head of the serpent." Children stepped on Pence posters, which were later set on fire. One activist said that "the United States will be burned by the fire it ignited." Footage of the sermon was posted online by the Lebanese U-News agency on January 22, 2018.



“Children stepped on Pence posters, which were later set on fire.”

Well, gee whiz. They wasted a good opportunity by not setting the children on fire and making a proper islamo-protest.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"I forget - is this the 392nd Day of Rage, or the 393rd?" The Fatah party, of which Mahmoud Abbas is the leader, has declared this coming Friday to be a "Day of Rage."  It is also calling for Israeli Arabs to have demonstrations on Tuesday. Their press release includes lots of references to martyrs and blood, although they can claim that they don't directly call...

(full article online)

Fatah declares this Friday a "Day of Rage." Just like every Friday. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nowadays, Palestinian Arabs have two distinct sources for their antisemitism.

For Muslims, it is animated by their view of Jews as historically weak and their intense shame at having been defeated by these Jews who are supposed to be second class citizens in a Muslim-dominated area.

But for Palestinian Christians, who are mostly Catholic as well, Vatican II didn't apply to them. They still subscribe to the supercessionist thinking of the historic Catholic church. In many ways, they are more antisemitic that the Muslims are because it is part of their religious belief system. In my opinion they influenced and intensified Muslim antisemitism since modern Zionism began.

It is important to realize, especially when articles are written about Palestinian Christians, that they have two reasons to show hatred towards Israel. The obvious one is their dhimmi status so as not to say anything that would upset their Muslim neighbors who can and do make their lives miserable. But even more important is : their religious teachings themselves. They have never purged official Church antisemitism from their doctrines, and that is something that the West continues to ignore.

(full article online)

The Polish Holocaust story and Palestinian Christians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Name the similarities of what is happening in Germany to what goes on with the PA and Gaza ]

The Mass Brainwashing of Germany


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority has reopened its verbal attacks on Palestinian Media Watch. This follows PMW's repeated exposure of incitement to violence on official PA radio, including the broadcast of a recent song calling for Martyrdom for Jerusalem.

A few days after PMW reported that The Voice of Palestine station had broadcast a song encouraging Palestinians to "redeem" Jerusalem "with your life and blood", the station's Director-General Bassam Daghlas, accused PMW of "waging an incitement campaign" against the station.

"Director-General of [the official PA radio station] The Voice of Palestine Bassam Daghlas said that *'The incitement campaign that the Israeli center Palestinian Media Watch is waging against The Voice of Palestine radio station is not the first case*, as it has been subject to similar attacks in the past.' ...
He also emphasized that 'Our media message is clear and will not change, and if they consider playing national songs incitement, they can think what they want."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Jan. 25, 2018]

(full article online)

PA attacks PMW for "wild incitement campaign"  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A reminder of what Arab Palestinians know about their history, or the meaning of the word Palestine - sorry....Falestine, since they do not have the letter P in their alphabet ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Need we ask where are the Millions Hamas has, and why they have not invested in the water and electricity for their population? ]


Israel, International Donors to Supply Power, Water & Help Clean Up Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

$16.3 Billion For What?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gaza.....boycotting women ]

Gaza police block women from attending soccer game


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Birthday Party for Ahed Tamimi sponsored by local Israel Haters


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Birthday Party for Ahed Tamimi sponsored by local Israel Haters


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Birthday Party for Ahed Tamimi sponsored by local Israel Haters
Click to expand...


The child that you and those like you have groomed to be a symbol of Arab-Moslem hate and intolerance is not a political prisoner.

What a shame people like you will use children to promote your Jew hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Birthday Party for Ahed Tamimi sponsored by local Israel Haters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The child that you and those like you have groomed to be a symbol of Arab-Moslem hate and intolerance is not a political prisoner.
> 
> What a shame people like you will use children to promote your Jew hatreds.
Click to expand...

You are just saying that because you ran out of anti Semite cards.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Birthday Party for Ahed Tamimi sponsored by local Israel Haters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The child that you and those like you have groomed to be a symbol of Arab-Moslem hate and intolerance is not a political prisoner.
> 
> What a shame people like you will use children to promote your Jew hatreds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just saying that because you ran out of anti Semite cards.
Click to expand...


I'm writing that because it's worth pointing out the proclivity you people have toward use and abuse of female children.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Apparently, Hamas is more feminist than Scarlett Johansson ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

What do you do when your people suffer from an economic crisis?

You exacerbate it, of course!

When Vice President Pence visited Israel, Palestinian factions called for a general strike. Not only did they bully all shopkeepers to close their stores, depriving them of revenue as they often do when calling for these strikes, but they blockaded roads to stop their fellow Arabs from going to work in Israel, depriving them of a day of their salary.

(full article online)

Palestinians keep on cutting off their noses to spite their faces  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the UN's own definition, the status of "refugee" _cannot_ be passed from generation to generation -- as it conveniently has been for the Palestinians. A Palestinian with a European, American or Jordanian passport has no reason to be considered a refugee. Except by UNRWA.


"Since the UN took them over, the Palestinians started burying their dead at night, without declaring them, in order to share their rations. As a result, for nearly 20 years, the official death rate in the camps was close to zero. In addition, there was a lot of movement between the camps. But these displacements were rarely recorded, so that a Palestinian could appear in several camps at the same time..." — Said Aburish, Palestinian Refugee and biographer of the late Palestinian Chairman Yasser Arafat.


UNRWA is not just a humanitarian agency. Its political stance is evident at all levels of the organization. A report from the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education, says that the 2016-2017 curriculum for elementary schools in PA, partly funded by UNRWA, "teaches students to be martyrs, to demonize and deny the existence of Israel, and to focus on a 'return' to an exclusively Palestinian country."

(full article online)

UNRWA: The UN Agency that Creates Palestinian Refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians: Silencing and Intimidating Journalists


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> According to the UN's own definition, the status of "refugee" _cannot_ be passed from generation to generation -- as it conveniently has been for the Palestinians. A Palestinian with a European, American or Jordanian passport has no reason to be considered a refugee. Except by UNRWA.
> 
> 
> "Since the UN took them over, the Palestinians started burying their dead at night, without declaring them, in order to share their rations. As a result, for nearly 20 years, the official death rate in the camps was close to zero. In addition, there was a lot of movement between the camps. But these displacements were rarely recorded, so that a Palestinian could appear in several camps at the same time..." — Said Aburish, Palestinian Refugee and biographer of the late Palestinian Chairman Yasser Arafat.
> 
> 
> UNRWA is not just a humanitarian agency. Its political stance is evident at all levels of the organization. A report from the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education, says that the 2016-2017 curriculum for elementary schools in PA, partly funded by UNRWA, "teaches students to be martyrs, to demonize and deny the existence of Israel, and to focus on a 'return' to an exclusively Palestinian country."
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA: The UN Agency that Creates Palestinian Refugees




Very important article to be read.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sisters Maria and Esther have filed official complaints against the Mahatna family, but Palestinian Authority courts have failed to take any real action.

The convent remains partially occupied, despite the fact that the nuns filed their first complaint back in April of 2017, when a female member of the Muslim family, Rania Mahatna, assaulted Sister Maria and caused damage to the property.

It was when the nuns were on their way to the police station to file that initial complaint that a second major incident occurred. Rania's brother, Rami, along with a gang of friends, stopped the nuns' car and attacked it with iron bars.

(full article online)

Christian Nuns in Bethlehem Subjected to Violence, and the Media is Silent


----------



## Sixties Fan

Did Israel force the PA to resume electricity to Gaza? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Three new old Hamas "martyrs". Pass the candy! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dr.. Ismail Ibrahim writes in Al Ahram Gate on Monday that the Muslims need to unite to defeat the treacherous, evil Jews.

Not Israels - Jews.

" While Arab leaders are rushing to make agreements and  peace with the Jews, Israel clings to the Knesset with a painting showing  the area from the Nile to the Euphrates as part of Israel. doesn' t that mean Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and part of Saudi Arabia ?!"

This painting is fictional, of course.

(full article online)

Today's Arab media antisemitism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli government, which will be represented by Regional Cooperation Minister Tzachi Hanegbi, expressed its support for emergency aid, recognizing that if the Gaza regime collapsed, it could cause another war. While the basic needs of Gaza's civilian population, like electricity and potable water, are obvious to all, another round of funding won't solve the core problem there, especially given that the role Hamas is playing in the crisis is being ignored. So to prevent the next crisis, and the one after that, real change is necessary.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/israel-unrwa-and-the-emergency-meeting/


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## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians....never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity ......to miss any opportunity.  ]

The American diplomats had been invited by city officials to give a workshop on doing business over the internet.

(full article online)

US delegation flees Bethlehem as Palestinian protesters storm workshop


----------



## Sixties Fan

First the facts: Inequality exists across the globe, from east to west, and Gaza is no exception. But the depiction of Gaza in its entirety as wracked by poverty and destruction and in desperate need of the world's assistance is a lie – as has been shown not by Israeli propaganda but by BBC Arabic, and by none other than Al-Jazeera, Qatar's media arm.

Al-Jazeera has been broadcasting reports on a very different Gaza; a November 26, 2017 Al-Jazeera TV report on the development of Gaza shopping centers clearly show a commercial boom there. A January 13, 2018 Al-Jazeera program showed how youth unemployment in Gaza – a problem in many parts of the world, including India and Europe – is being addressed, with computer training that will allow distance employment. The video shows vocational training centers, universities, and vibrant student life in Gaza (to view the entire untranslated Al-Jazeera program, click here). In late 2016, BBC Arabic aired a story on Gaza restaurants, showing, in its words, "an aspect of luxury, vibrancy, and riches" in Gaza life.

(full article online)

Is Gaza In Need Of Qatar's Aid?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Goldberg is referring to a single street in Hebron, Shuhada Street, that all journalists and "peace tourists" get shown when they visit. It is a tiny part of Hebron showing boarded up shops that Israel shut down because of major terror attacks against Jews. 

Hebron itself is a large, vibrant city that few Western reporters bothers to visit.

Goldberg herself clearly has not visited the rest of Hebron, because if she did, she would have seen scenes like these:

(full article and photos online)

Two messages for Michelle Goldberg @michelleinbklyn, @NYTimes writer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In our words, some of Shragai's revelations (direct quotes are in italics):

No fewer than 420 of the 1,027 let loose in the Shalit Deal are again engaged in the satanic work of doing more terror. 210 of the 1,027 have already been re-arrested by the IDF. Some 100 are currently back in the Israeli prison system.
"_Terrorists freed in the Schalit deal have directly or indirectly been involved in the murder of seven Israelis, including the three teens abducted in Gush Etzion in June 2014, as well as *Rabbi Michael Mark* and *Baruch Mizrahi*._"
Shragai, referring to reports from the Palestinian Authority, says Shalit Deal releasees are currently "_working to carry out attacks in various parts of the West Bank and their main goal is another abduction of an Israeli_". 
The Gaza operations of Hamas are now led by graduates of the Shalit Deal who are keeping Gaza relatively quiet while they "_rebuild themselves _[and]_ hatching plans for terrorist attacks in Judea and Samaria, all while continuing to shake up the regime of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas._" 
One of those is *Yahya Sinwar* of whom we wrote recently ["*13-Feb-17: Another Shalit Deal milestone: Four terms of life imprisonment but this murdering jihadist now heads Hamas in Gaza*"]. He is aided by *Tawfiq Abu Naim* [we mentioned him in *2012*] and Zuhair Jabarin, another Shalit Deal graduate. Sinwar, while serving a term of four life sentences for planning terrorist attacks and before being freed by Israel, was involved in planning the lethal kidnapping of a young IDF service man, Nahshon Waxman.
In the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority, Shalit Deal beneficiaries play a major terrorist role as well. A Jordanian with close ties to Iran, *Maher Obeid *was put in charge of Arab-on-Israeli terror attacks in the West Bank in late-2017 [see this Ynet backgrounder] after *Saleh al-Arouri*, who was freed prior to the Shalit Deal, was promoted in October 2017 to become the deputy head of Hamas. 

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 29-Jan-18: Freeing unrepentant terrorists and the horrors it has brought


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs from village near Yitzhar in Samaria attack children's festive Tu Bishvat planting event. Security forces push attackers back.

(full article online)

Youth injured in Arab rock attack on children's planting event


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> Arabs from village near Yitzhar in Samaria attack children's festive Tu Bishvat planting event. Security forces push attackers back.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Youth injured in Arab rock attack on children's planting event



Despicable.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Said Walter Doehle, german consul in Jerusalem, wrote in 1937:

“Palestinian Arabs in all social strata have great sympathies for the new Germany and its Führer..…If a person identified himself as a German when faced with threats from an Arab crowd, this alone generally allowed him to pass freely. But when some identified themselves by making the ‘Heil Hitler’ salute, in most cases the Arabs’ attitude became expressions of open enthusiasm, and the German gave ovations, to which the Arabs responded loudly.”

Although he was not the only collaborator with Nazism—Fawzi al-Qawuqji, Rashid Ali al-Kelani, Abu Ibrahim al-Kabir, Hassan Salama and Arif Abd al-Raziq spring to mind—the role played by Palestinian leader and Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini in fomenting anti-Jewish incitement and violence, not just in British Palestine but across the Arab world, is key. From 1931, he conflated “Zionists” with “Jews.” Any Jewish community became fair game for collective punishment—and still is.

The Mufti met with Hitler in Berlin in November 1941 to discuss the extermination of the Jews in the Middle East. He spent the rest of the war as a guest of the Nazis.

Adolf Eichmann’s deputy Dieter Wisliceny (later executed as a war criminal) in his Nuremburg Trials testimony stated, “the Mufti was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures.”

On a visit to Auschwitz, the Mufti reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. Throughout the war, he broadcast regularly on German radio to the Middle East, preaching his pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic message to the Arab masses back home.

(full article online)

Arabs are torch-bearers for Nazi anti-Semitism


----------



## Sixties Fan

When UNHRC manages to bring real refugees back to their original countries, it doesn't insist that they move to the exact spot they used to live in. That is absurd and it is not the definition of "refugee." As long as they can integrate into their countries, they are no longer refugees and no longer in need of international assistance.

But UNRWA's official position is that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who live in what the UN call the State of Palestine are not full citizens of their statelet, but instead belong in Israel.

And it is demanding $400 million from the world to help keep this situation of intra-Palestinian apartheid, against "Palestine refugees" in "Palestine," alive.

The US reduction in aid to UNRWA should be explicit about why funding an agency that encourages discrimination against "refugees" inside Palestinian territories is wrong. Europeans should ask why they should fund an agency that is keeping a fake "refugee" issue alive, even in Jordan where the "refugees" are almost all citizens and in "Palestine" where they are literally home. Let UNRWA concentrate, for now, on people in need in Syria and Syrian refugees in Lebanon, where real money is needed even if there is a two-class system for Syrian refugees depending on where their great-grandparents lived.

(full article online)

UNRWA and the PLO agrees: Millions of Palestinians don't belong in "Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The entire point of the stories is to incite hatred on behalf of Arabs against Jews.

But when these visits are routine, the stories get boring after a while.New ways to report Jews peacefully and respectfully touring the perimeter of their holiest spot are needed in order to continue to stoke anger. Just calling them "settlers" and that they are "storming" the area with "provocative tours" isn't enough.

A month ago, the new angle was that they were performing "silent Talmudic rituals." Which means they were standing silently, obviously a horrible crime.

The Palestinian Authority came up with a new twist this week. Since invoking "Talmudic rituals" has been so successful in instilling fear and anger among their people, now they are dividing up the visitors into two hated groups: "settlers" and "students from Talmudic schools."

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority is frightened of "Students from Talmudic schools" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) for Palestinian refugees and their descendants is responsible for the education of about a quarter of Palestinian schoolchildren in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. UNRWA maintains and operates ninety-six schools throughout Judea and Samaria, in addition to 276 educational institutions in the Gaza Strip.

Arab terrorist organizations have used the institutions themselves as bases for terrorist activity and the digging of tunnels into Israel. In addition to that, an examination of the contents taught in schools reveals a comprehensive system of incitement and education for hatred from a very young age, all under the official auspices and assistance of the United Nations.

The vast majority of textbooks used in UN schools are produced and distributed by the Palestinian Authority. In schools in Gaza, students in addition to PA books, use books published by the Hamas government.

(full article online)

Incitement in UNRWA Schools Continues Unabated


----------



## Sixties Fan

“I strongly encourage all countries and institutional donors who are trying to assist the people of Gaza to take this tour to understand this difficult, tragic and complex situation,” he said, calling on them to work together to “help the people of Gaza, ensure Israel’s and Egypt’s security, and improve lives.”

(full article online)

US Envoy Slams Hamas for Sabotaging Gaza’s Chances for Success


----------



## Sixties Fan

A new children's program on PA TV called _From My Country_ teaches children that arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, who the PA has bragged was responsible for the murder of at least 125 Israelis, is a role model to be followed.

The opening of the weekly 10 minute program, which has been broadcast twice so far, shows a cube with photos of six different Palestinian personalities. One of them is terrorist Abu Jihad, who orchestrated numerous terror attacks against Israelis, among them the most lethal attack in Israel's history - the Coastal Road Massacre - in which Palestinian terrorists hijacked a bus and murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children.

Also included among the six personalities promoted to kids is Ghassan Kanafani - a writer and a leader of the terror organization Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).

(full article online)

PA TV to kids: "Follow the example" of arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, he is "a symbol" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: 'Arabs tortured by Palestinian Authority learn that human rights groups are only interested in cases that harm Israel’s reputation.'

(full article online)

Human rights orgs abandon PA's Arab torture victims


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## Sixties Fan

In plain language: Word to the Palestinians: Grow up!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> In plain language: Word to the Palestinians: Grow up!




Excellent article.  Tinmore, take note.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In plain language: Word to the Palestinians: Grow up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent article.  Tinmore, take note.
Click to expand...

I did. Stupid hit piece.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In plain language: Word to the Palestinians: Grow up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent article.  Tinmore, take note.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. Stupid hit piece.
Click to expand...


I’m afraid there are painful truths you and your co-religionists are unwilling to address.

From the preamble to the linked article: “For 70+ years, through three generations, the Palestinians have been fed, wet-nursed, coddled and accommodated by a global set of ‘parents.“

Yeah. The truth hurts. Three generations of welfare fraud recipients. UNRWA has managed only to bloat into an endowment for three generations of Islamic terrorist franchises which have managed to accumulate fabulous wealth for the few at the top of the pyramid.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Arab Palestinian contribution to the world ]

Makor Rishon reports that a forest in the area of Gush Etzion, Ya'ar Giv'ot, has been decimated over the years by neighboring Arabs who cut the trees down for firewood.

(full article and photos online)

Arabs cutting down thousands of trees ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Community | Palestinian Children Are The Child Soldiers No One Is Talking About


----------



## Sixties Fan

P is for Palestine, But B is for Bund


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## Sixties Fan

On Wednesday, a concerned community member alerted B’nai Brith to an article posted by the group on Jan. 27, International Holocaust Remembrance Day, in which the author denies that six-million Jews were killed by the Nazis and their collaborators, claiming that the Holocaust has been exaggerated by Jews in order to attract global sympathy.

The author of the article is none other than David Duke, a U.S. white supremacist and former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.

Other posts made by _Muslims in Calgary_ in January describe Israel as “a scourge, a cancer that needs to be dealt with” and tout infographics designed by Hamas, a Palestinian terrorist group committed to murdering Jews worldwide. Ironically, this antisemitic material is interspersed with other posts decrying anti-Muslim hatred in Canada.

The _Muslims in Calgary_ website solicits funds for four mosques in the Calgary area, including one run by the Muslim Association of Canada (MAC). In October, B’nai Brith filed a complaint with Vancouver police and relevant Canadian authorities after an imam at a local MAC mosque referred to Israelis as “an impure gang” and urged his congregantsto send “money, weapons and expertise” to the Palestinians for use against Israel.

(full article online)

B’nai Brith Canada Appalled by Antisemitism on “Muslims in Calgary” Website


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Community | Palestinian Children Are The Child Soldiers No One Is Talking About


Nobody mentioned what those foreign troops were doing in her yard in the first place.


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## fanger

*The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*

*Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.

In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: 


“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”

Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
*On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

fanger said:


> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*




Pence's performance in Jerusalem was a Kiddush Hashem or Sanctification of G-d's Name.  He told of how G-d kept His promise of gathering Jews from all over the globe and restoring them to the Promised Land, just as it was predicted in the Bible.  He also told of how they made the desert bloom with their blood, sweat and tears.  It was a speech for the ages.


----------



## P F Tinmore

fanger said:


> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*


OMG, what a fruitcake.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, what a fruitcake.
Click to expand...



Didn't you once call yourself a Christian?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, what a fruitcake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you once call yourself a Christian?
Click to expand...

I am.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, what a fruitcake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you once call yourself a Christian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am.
Click to expand...

I am glad to see that you are the True kind of Christian.

The kind which follows Paul of Tarsus' teachings to a T, as it had been done by the Catholics for over 1700 years before all the other denominations, which also follow Paul's teachings to a T. came up.

Basically it goes like this:

The only good Jew is a Christian one.

If one cannot convert to Jews to Christianity.....find a way of getting rid of them, for the sight and sound of them offends you.


Yes, Tinmore, you are a Christian, the best kind....the only kind of Christian there has ever been on this planet.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"With all due respect to the Palestinian Arab minority, you've been milking our economy for decades. We've given you billions upon billions of dollars. Our citizens needed that money, but it went to you.

"That's right, we gave preference you over ourselves. We gave to you, instead of to our citizens. And what have we gotten in return? You're a bunch of dogs, rabid dogs, who only bark at those that feed them. You've turned your [political] issues into a source of income. You've turned our shared religion [Islam] into a way of making money. You've turned our shared language into a way of making money.

"You're more hostile towards us than the Israelis are. You wish more for our destruction than you Israel's. You wish upon us the most horrible curses a person can conceive of.

"You are the ugliest page in our history - like a bad memory that we'd like to forget. We want to tear this page out of [our history] and get rid of it completely, now and forever.

"We've had to sacrifice having ties with Israel - the most advanced country in the Middle East because of you and your problems and your use of our religion, language, and the fact that you're Arabs [to demand our support].

"You've made a mockery of your own plight - that's why the world doesn't take you seriously. You were homeless, so we built you houses. You were sick, so we built you hospitals. You were hungry so we gave you billions of dollars. And what did we get in return for our support? In return for all that, you support our enemy [Iran], who didn't give you even one percent of what we've given you.

(full article online)

'The Palestinians can go to hell, they betrayed the Arab world'


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, what a fruitcake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you once call yourself a Christian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am.
Click to expand...



Well then, I heard a preacher on the TBN Network say that the promise to give Israel to the Jews is mentioned more often, in the Bible, than the promise of salvation--that's how important it is.  Yet you keep on calling the Jews in Israel "foreigners."


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> "With all due respect to the Palestinian Arab minority, you've been milking our economy for decades. We've given you billions upon billions of dollars. Our citizens needed that money, but it went to you.
> 
> "That's right, we gave preference you over ourselves. We gave to you, instead of to our citizens. And what have we gotten in return? You're a bunch of dogs, rabid dogs, who only bark at those that feed them. You've turned your [political] issues into a source of income. You've turned our shared religion [Islam] into a way of making money. You've turned our shared language into a way of making money.
> 
> "You're more hostile towards us than the Israelis are. You wish more for our destruction than you Israel's. You wish upon us the most horrible curses a person can conceive of.
> 
> "You are the ugliest page in our history - like a bad memory that we'd like to forget. We want to tear this page out of [our history] and get rid of it completely, now and forever.
> 
> "We've had to sacrifice having ties with Israel - the most advanced country in the Middle East because of you and your problems and your use of our religion, language, and the fact that you're Arabs [to demand our support].
> 
> "You've made a mockery of your own plight - that's why the world doesn't take you seriously. You were homeless, so we built you houses. You were sick, so we built you hospitals. You were hungry so we gave you billions of dollars. And what did we get in return for our support? In return for all that, you support our enemy [Iran], who didn't give you even one percent of what we've given you.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'The Palestinians can go to hell, they betrayed the Arab world'


An anonymous blog presented by Yuval King as?


----------



## fanger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, what a fruitcake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you once call yourself a Christian?
Click to expand...

To combat the deep-cover workers of iniquity like Mike Pence we need hundreds of thousands of Christians who have more knowledge of Judaism than merely that its holy book the Talmud disparages Jesus and Mary. The founding of an “Institute for the Advanced Study of Judaism” would go far toward arming the people with an education in this subject, so that they could readily discern from the Vice-President’s disgraceful speech to the Knesset, and his collaboration with Sacks, that whomever Mr. Pence professes to follow, it is not Jesus Christ or His Word.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "With all due respect to the Palestinian Arab minority, you've been milking our economy for decades. We've given you billions upon billions of dollars. Our citizens needed that money, but it went to you.
> 
> "That's right, we gave preference you over ourselves. We gave to you, instead of to our citizens. And what have we gotten in return? You're a bunch of dogs, rabid dogs, who only bark at those that feed them. You've turned your [political] issues into a source of income. You've turned our shared religion [Islam] into a way of making money. You've turned our shared language into a way of making money.
> 
> "You're more hostile towards us than the Israelis are. You wish more for our destruction than you Israel's. You wish upon us the most horrible curses a person can conceive of.
> 
> "You are the ugliest page in our history - like a bad memory that we'd like to forget. We want to tear this page out of [our history] and get rid of it completely, now and forever.
> 
> "We've had to sacrifice having ties with Israel - the most advanced country in the Middle East because of you and your problems and your use of our religion, language, and the fact that you're Arabs [to demand our support].
> 
> "You've made a mockery of your own plight - that's why the world doesn't take you seriously. You were homeless, so we built you houses. You were sick, so we built you hospitals. You were hungry so we gave you billions of dollars. And what did we get in return for our support? In return for all that, you support our enemy [Iran], who didn't give you even one percent of what we've given you.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'The Palestinians can go to hell, they betrayed the Arab world'
> 
> 
> 
> An anonymous blog presented by Yuval King as?
Click to expand...



There are a few good Arabs out there who see the light, like Mohammed Zoabi, a somewhat famous Arab-Israeli citizen.


----------



## fanger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "With all due respect to the Palestinian Arab minority, you've been milking our economy for decades. We've given you billions upon billions of dollars. Our citizens needed that money, but it went to you.
> 
> "That's right, we gave preference you over ourselves. We gave to you, instead of to our citizens. And what have we gotten in return? You're a bunch of dogs, rabid dogs, who only bark at those that feed them. You've turned your [political] issues into a source of income. You've turned our shared religion [Islam] into a way of making money. You've turned our shared language into a way of making money.
> 
> "You're more hostile towards us than the Israelis are. You wish more for our destruction than you Israel's. You wish upon us the most horrible curses a person can conceive of.
> 
> "You are the ugliest page in our history - like a bad memory that we'd like to forget. We want to tear this page out of [our history] and get rid of it completely, now and forever.
> 
> "We've had to sacrifice having ties with Israel - the most advanced country in the Middle East because of you and your problems and your use of our religion, language, and the fact that you're Arabs [to demand our support].
> 
> "You've made a mockery of your own plight - that's why the world doesn't take you seriously. You were homeless, so we built you houses. You were sick, so we built you hospitals. You were hungry so we gave you billions of dollars. And what did we get in return for our support? In return for all that, you support our enemy [Iran], who didn't give you even one percent of what we've given you.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'The Palestinians can go to hell, they betrayed the Arab world'
> 
> 
> 
> An anonymous blog presented by Yuval King as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are a few good Arabs out there who see the light, like Mohammed Zoabi, a somewhat famous Arab-Israeli citizen.
Click to expand...

Do not try to imply that the anonymous blogger presented above is Mohammed Zoabi, as it is not


----------



## ForeverYoung436

fanger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> *Vice President Mike Pence, standard bearer of America’s Protestant fundamentalists, addressed the Israeli parliament (“Knesset”) January 22. There he hailed the nation that has engaged in relentless war crimesand land theft, as God’s handiwork. No atheist could do as much damage to Christianity and the Bible as Mike Pence. By associating Biblical Christianity with a Christless ideology of mass murder, he casts the Word of God and the Faith based upon it, in severe disrepute.*
> 
> *In his Knesset address, Pence did the Israelis no favors when he encouraged the diabolic vice of pride among Judaic people: *
> 
> 
> *“Israel is like a tree that has grown deep roots in the soil of your forefathers, yet as it grows, it reaches ever closer to the heavens. And today and every day, the Jewish state of Israel, and all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness, as well as your own.”*
> 
> *Obviously Pence is making a racist statement when he puts forth the hyperbole that "all the Jewish people, bear witness to God’s faithfulness….” He’s not saying that he believes that not one of them is a bank robber, not one an adulterer or an embezzler. Rather, he’s saying without regard to any possible crimes they may have committed, they are all “Jews” and have a highly favored relationship with God simply by the circumstance of their supposed birth as alleged “Jews.” This is the heresy of Protestant fundamentalism.*
> *On the Contrary: The Travesty of Mike Pence in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, what a fruitcake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you once call yourself a Christian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To combat the deep-cover workers of iniquity like Mike Pence we need hundreds of thousands of Christians who have more knowledge of Judaism than merely that its holy book the Talmud disparages Jesus and Mary. The founding of an “Institute for the Advanced Study of Judaism” would go far toward arming the people with an education in this subject, so that they could readily discern from the Vice-President’s disgraceful speech to the Knesset, and his collaboration with Sacks, that whomever Mr. Pence professes to follow, it is not Jesus Christ or His Word.
Click to expand...



The Talmud does say some unkind things about Jesus, but considering how many Jews died because of him, isn't it understandable?  Besides, the Talmud isn't as authoritative as the Torah is.  And there has been a genocide of Christians in Muslim countries in the last few years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian anti-Americanism is notable given that the US has given more assistance to the Palestinians than any country other than Israel. Americans have spent the last 25 years pressuring Israel to make more and more concessions to the Palestinians.

In large part, anti-Americanism among Palestinians redounds to two things. First, incitement. For 25 years, the US-financed PA has used all the tools at its disposal to indoctrinate the Palestinians to hate America almost as much as they hate Israel.

Second, like the Iranian regime, the Palestinians view the US and Israel as two sides of the same coin. And indeed, their hatred for the US is the mirror image of Israelis’ love for it.

While the Palestinians topped the list of people who view the US as their enemy, Israel topped the list of nations that view the US as their partner. Ninety percent of Israelis view the US as their partner.

All Abbas needed to do was call for Trump’s house to be destroyed and mobs of Fatah members were only too happy to go into the streets and burn the president in effigy.

(full article online)

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Our-World-Time-for-Greenblatt-to-walk-away-540484


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.


While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.


Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian reconciliation deal dying slow death


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence


The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
Click to expand...

I would still have your head checked.

The South African black areas did not receive the Billions of dollars the PA receives from the US, Israel, EU, and many Arab/Muslim countries.

The South African black leaders did not incite their people to attack and kill the European African governors, etc. on a daily basis, in their schools, media, and at the UN.

The South Africa blacks, did not have a UN organization which helped educate the black population against the Europeans in South Africa.

------------

HAVE   YOUR   HEAD   CHECKED !!!




Bantustan | historical territory, South Africa


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would still have your head checked.
> 
> The South African black areas did not receive the Billions of dollars the PA receives from the US, Israel, EU, and many Arab/Muslim countries.
> 
> The South African black leaders did not incite their people to attack and kill the European African governors, etc. on a daily basis, in their schools, media, and at the UN.
> 
> The South Africa blacks, did not have a UN organization which helped educate the black population against the Europeans in South Africa.
> 
> ------------
> 
> HAVE   YOUR   HEAD   CHECKED !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bantustan | historical territory, South Africa
Click to expand...

How does that change what she said or are you just deflecting?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would still have your head checked.
> 
> The South African black areas did not receive the Billions of dollars the PA receives from the US, Israel, EU, and many Arab/Muslim countries.
> 
> The South African black leaders did not incite their people to attack and kill the European African governors, etc. on a daily basis, in their schools, media, and at the UN.
> 
> The South Africa blacks, did not have a UN organization which helped educate the black population against the Europeans in South Africa.
> 
> ------------
> 
> HAVE   YOUR   HEAD   CHECKED !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bantustan | historical territory, South Africa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that change what she said or are you just deflecting?
Click to expand...

The PA is not South Africa.

Israel is not an Apartheid country.

NOTHING she says applies to the Israel-Arab conflict where the 
PA is not like a batustan, at all.

You keep depending on those who seem to be educated, want to sound educated about the issue.....but are not.

As she is not.

As her friend Richard Falk is not.

You really get easily sucked into anyone's speech where they scream:


ISRAEL  IS  AN  APARTHEID  COUNTRY, AND KEEPS THE PALESTINIANS IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP.

ISRAEL OCCUPIES  "PALESTINIAN"  TERRITORIES

---------------
Your favorite songs about Israel 


Have your head examined.   Please.....


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would still have your head checked.
> 
> The South African black areas did not receive the Billions of dollars the PA receives from the US, Israel, EU, and many Arab/Muslim countries.
> 
> The South African black leaders did not incite their people to attack and kill the European African governors, etc. on a daily basis, in their schools, media, and at the UN.
> 
> The South Africa blacks, did not have a UN organization which helped educate the black population against the Europeans in South Africa.
> 
> ------------
> 
> HAVE   YOUR   HEAD   CHECKED !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bantustan | historical territory, South Africa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that change what she said or are you just deflecting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The PA is not South Africa.
> 
> Israel is not an Apartheid country.
> 
> NOTHING she says applies to the Israel-Arab conflict where the
> PA is not like a batustan, at all.
> 
> You keep depending on those who seem to be educated, want to sound educated about the issue.....but are not.
> 
> As she is not.
> 
> As her friend Richard Falk is not.
> 
> You really get easily sucked into anyone's speech where they scream:
> 
> 
> ISRAEL  IS  AN  APARTHEID  COUNTRY, AND KEEPS THE PALESTINIANS IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP.
> 
> ISRAEL OCCUPIES  "PALESTINIAN"  TERRITORIES
> 
> ---------------
> Your favorite songs about Israel
> 
> 
> Have your head examined.   Please.....
Click to expand...


He should at least take a trip and see what Life is really like over there.  After all, he's devoted his life to this issue.  One poster (I think he's called "harmonica") was shocked that Tinmore had never been there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would still have your head checked.
> 
> The South African black areas did not receive the Billions of dollars the PA receives from the US, Israel, EU, and many Arab/Muslim countries.
> 
> The South African black leaders did not incite their people to attack and kill the European African governors, etc. on a daily basis, in their schools, media, and at the UN.
> 
> The South Africa blacks, did not have a UN organization which helped educate the black population against the Europeans in South Africa.
> 
> ------------
> 
> HAVE   YOUR   HEAD   CHECKED !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bantustan | historical territory, South Africa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that change what she said or are you just deflecting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The PA is not South Africa.
> 
> Israel is not an Apartheid country.
> 
> NOTHING she says applies to the Israel-Arab conflict where the
> PA is not like a batustan, at all.
> 
> You keep depending on those who seem to be educated, want to sound educated about the issue.....but are not.
> 
> As she is not.
> 
> As her friend Richard Falk is not.
> 
> You really get easily sucked into anyone's speech where they scream:
> 
> 
> ISRAEL  IS  AN  APARTHEID  COUNTRY, AND KEEPS THE PALESTINIANS IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP.
> 
> ISRAEL OCCUPIES  "PALESTINIAN"  TERRITORIES
> 
> ---------------
> Your favorite songs about Israel
> 
> 
> Have your head examined.   Please.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He should at least take a trip and see what Life is really like over there.  After all, he's devoted his life to this issue.  One poster (I think he's called "harmonica") was shocked that Tinmore had never been there.
Click to expand...

Shhhhh.....if he finds out that Jesus is not telling him the truth, when he talks to him (or thinks he is talking to him and that is who he thinks is advising him about Israel and the Palestinians )......who knows what could happen......


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure what the standalone word "Explanization" _(sic)_ means.

But I am endlessly amused at how _(and to what lengths)_ the Arab Palestinians will go to imply an "apartheid" connection.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I find it difficult to even take the allegation of "apartheid" in any serious way when Arab Palestinians cannot even take intelligently about the subject; relative to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

•  What inhuman acts are actually applied?
•  What policies and practices stipulate laws in terms of race?
•  What racial segregation and discrimination does Israel employ in the West Bank and Gaza Strip?
•  What races are on each side of the segregation?Who does Israel implement the discrimination?​
"Bantustan"?  Give me a break.  Most Arab Palestinians cannot even tell you who established the borders of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure what the standalone word "Explanization" _(sic)_ means.
> 
> But I am endlessly amused at how _(and to what lengths)_ the Arab Palestinians will go to imply an "apartheid" connection.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel uses "administrative detention" as a tool to thwart terrorism, the Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership holds people without trial as a means to silence them and prevent them from voicing any form of criticism against Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders.
> 
> 
> While administrative detainees in Israel are entitled to see a lawyer, receive family visits and appeal against their incarceration, the Palestinians detained by the PA are denied basic rights. Yet, Israel-obsessed human rights organizations seem uninterested in this fact.
> 
> 
> Particularly disturbing, however, is not that the PA leadership is acting as a tyrannical regime, but the abiding silence and indifference of the international community and human rights organizations. Those who scream bloody murder about Israel's security measures against terrorism would do the Palestinians a better service by opening their mouths about how human rights are ravaged under the PA.
> Palestinians: Arbitrary Arrests, Administrative Detentions and World Silence
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government. Explanization @ 9:15
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I find it difficult to even take the allegation of "apartheid" in any serious way when Arab Palestinians cannot even take intelligently about the subject; relative to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> •  What inhuman acts are actually applied?
> •  What policies and practices stipulate laws in terms of race?
> •  What racial segregation and discrimination does Israel employ in the West Bank and Gaza Strip?
> •  What races are on each side of the segregation?Who does Israel implement the discrimination?​
> "Bantustan"?  Give me a break.  Most Arab Palestinians cannot even tell you who established the borders of Palestine.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I understood what she was saying.


----------



## Hollie

*Abbas’ advisor: “This nation will awaken and uproot evil from its land” - PMW Bulletins

Abbas’ advisor: “This nation will awaken 
and uproot evil from its land”*





Silence third world’er. For all your bluster and pointless rattling, let’s remember you’re just a welfare check away from fading into obscurity.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Let us see what comes out of this bold move ]


The Executive Committee, led by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, ordered the preparation of "plans and projects for disengagement steps with the Israeli government at the political, administrative, economic and security levels."

Last month the PLO's Central Council voted to suspend recognition of Israel until it recognizes "Palestine" and halts the building of Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria.

Western countries have been lobbying senior Palestinian officials to convince them not to take such a step, multiple diplomats said.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority preparing to 'disengage' from Israel


----------



## Hollie

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/erekat-slams-us-for-pushing-palestinian-coup-tells-nikki-haley-to-shut-up/*

*Erekat says US is pushing a Palestinian ‘coup,’ tells Nikki Haley to ‘shut up’*


*Top PLO official rails against the Trump administration for criticisms of PA President Mahmoud Abbas, but insists Palestinians are not looking for confrontation with US*
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 3 February 2018, 10:26 pm  36




PLO Secretary General Saeb Erekat in his Ramallah office, November 23, 2015. (AFP/Abbas Momani)


Senior Palestinian official Saeb Erekat on Saturday accused the Trump administration of trying depose the Palestinian leadership in a “coup” and told the “impudent” US envoy to the United Nations Nikki Haley she should “shut up” with her criticism of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.




Oh, 1,000 pardons effendi. What a shame that these impudent western women can’t be silenced. It’s just not fair, right Saeb? What a shame you dont have the “Islamist option” to deal with Nikki Haley.  “Honor killing” makes everything so simple, right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Confronting antisemitism and Israel hatred: Yachad perpetuates another blood libel against Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


*Hamas Mass 'Child' Wedding FAKE EXPOSED*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Money wasted.  Money lost. ]


Digging tunnels has been one of the specialties of Hamas in Gaza. The tunnels have served two purposes. One is to smuggle goods and weapons from Sinai, with the help of the local branch of ISIS, to Gaza. The second aim is to use the tunnels to infiltrate into Israel. 

Together with rockets, the tunnels have served as the most important strategic measures against Israel. During the last war (“Operation Protective Edge”) in the summer of 2014, Hamas managed to surprise the IDF by penetrating Israel via the tunnels twice and causing both casualties and damage. By the end of the war, which lasted nearly two months, the IDF had exposed and destroyed 31 tunnels.

(full article online)

Inside a Gaza terror tunnel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *https://www.timesofisrael.com/erekat-slams-us-for-pushing-palestinian-coup-tells-nikki-haley-to-shut-up/*
> 
> *Erekat says US is pushing a Palestinian ‘coup,’ tells Nikki Haley to ‘shut up’*
> 
> 
> *Top PLO official rails against the Trump administration for criticisms of PA President Mahmoud Abbas, but insists Palestinians are not looking for confrontation with US*
> By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 3 February 2018, 10:26 pm  36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLO Secretary General Saeb Erekat in his Ramallah office, November 23, 2015. (AFP/Abbas Momani)
> 
> 
> Senior Palestinian official Saeb Erekat on Saturday accused the Trump administration of trying depose the Palestinian leadership in a “coup” and told the “impudent” US envoy to the United Nations Nikki Haley she should “shut up” with her criticism of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, 1,000 pardons effendi. What a shame that these impudent western women can’t be silenced. It’s just not fair, right Saeb? What a shame you dont have the “Islamist option” to deal with Nikki Haley.  “Honor killing” makes everything so simple, right?


Saeb should step down and pass the torch to his niece.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Boy, have they misjudged things. Again.

The Arab world no longer cares about them. Egypt and Jordan, the two nations that they think are the most on their side, rely on Israel for their defense. The Saudis and the rest of the Gulf have been so hostile that Palestinian pundits have already written them off.

The think that UN votes indicate real support for them - it doesn't. There are lots of real refugees and real problems in the world, and a whiny wanna-be nation that refuses to talk to Israel is not in the world'd top 500 problems. Their ability to gain an automatic majority in the General Assembly or UNHRC is meaningless in the real world.

They think Europe is on their side. To an extent, that's true, but the EU is not nearly as relevant as it pretends to be in the Middle East.

They think that BDS is making serious inroads to hurting Israel. It isn't. There has always been a tiny but noisy minority of antisemites that have complained about Israel and its alleged human rights abuses since 1948. Most people think they are crackpots.

(full article online)

The PLO's rose-colored glasses gamble ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Money wasted.  Money lost. ]
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels has been one of the specialties of Hamas in Gaza. The tunnels have served two purposes. One is to smuggle goods and weapons from Sinai, with the help of the local branch of ISIS, to Gaza. The second aim is to use the tunnels to infiltrate into Israel.
> 
> Together with rockets, the tunnels have served as the most important strategic measures against Israel. During the last war (“Operation Protective Edge”) in the summer of 2014, Hamas managed to surprise the IDF by penetrating Israel via the tunnels twice and causing both casualties and damage. By the end of the war, which lasted nearly two months, the IDF had exposed and destroyed 31 tunnels.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Inside a Gaza terror tunnel


Terror tunnels. 
More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.



Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  Money wasted.  Money lost. ]
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels has been one of the specialties of Hamas in Gaza. The tunnels have served two purposes. One is to smuggle goods and weapons from Sinai, with the help of the local branch of ISIS, to Gaza. The second aim is to use the tunnels to infiltrate into Israel.
> 
> Together with rockets, the tunnels have served as the most important strategic measures against Israel. During the last war (“Operation Protective Edge”) in the summer of 2014, Hamas managed to surprise the IDF by penetrating Israel via the tunnels twice and causing both casualties and damage. By the end of the war, which lasted nearly two months, the IDF had exposed and destroyed 31 tunnels.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Inside a Gaza terror tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels.
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
Click to expand...


Such an apologist for Islamic terrorists. Continued vigilance on the part of Israeli defense forces has prevented your invading, Islamic terrorist tunnel rats from attacking civilian targets. Attacking civilian targets is what your Islamic terrorist heroes have a history of doing. Do you need a list of the suicide bombings against civilian targets that were performed by your Islamic terrorist heroes?

Your Islamic terrorist heroes have never worn customary uniforms of a military force to “engage foreign troops”. They use the tactics that define Islamic terrorists. Just a bunch of cowards and misfits.


----------



## harmonica

jackasses


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
Click to expand...

For the misinformed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
Click to expand...

Tinmore can see Israel from his house.........which of course keeps him informed and us uninformed or misinformed


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
Click to expand...


For the clueless:

Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt

The existence of tunnels used to smuggle terrorists into Israel was revealed in the initial days of the 2014 war between Hamas and Israel. During the night of July 21, 2014, two Hamas cells attempted to penetrate Israel. In one of the attacks, 10 Palestinians exited a tunnel wearing full Israeli army uniforms. Seven Israeli soldiers and at least 10 guerrilla fighters were killed during the nighttime combat, which took place in residential neighborhoods of Israeli border towns.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the clueless:
> 
> Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt
> 
> The existence of tunnels used to smuggle terrorists into Israel was revealed in the initial days of the 2014 war between Hamas and Israel. During the night of July 21, 2014, two Hamas cells attempted to penetrate Israel. In one of the attacks, 10 Palestinians exited a tunnel wearing full Israeli army uniforms. Seven Israeli soldiers and at least 10 guerrilla fighters were killed during the nighttime combat, which took place in residential neighborhoods of Israeli border towns.
Click to expand...

No civilians though, huh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the clueless:
> 
> Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt
> 
> The existence of tunnels used to smuggle terrorists into Israel was revealed in the initial days of the 2014 war between Hamas and Israel. During the night of July 21, 2014, two Hamas cells attempted to penetrate Israel. In one of the attacks, 10 Palestinians exited a tunnel wearing full Israeli army uniforms. Seven Israeli soldiers and at least 10 guerrilla fighters were killed during the nighttime combat, which took place in residential neighborhoods of Israeli border towns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No civilians though, huh?
Click to expand...


Your heroes weren’t given a chance.

Hurts your feelings, huh? Another Islamic terrorist fail.

Commander tinmore’s failed tactics.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the clueless:
> 
> Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt
> 
> The existence of tunnels used to smuggle terrorists into Israel was revealed in the initial days of the 2014 war between Hamas and Israel. During the night of July 21, 2014, two Hamas cells attempted to penetrate Israel. In one of the attacks, 10 Palestinians exited a tunnel wearing full Israeli army uniforms. Seven Israeli soldiers and at least 10 guerrilla fighters were killed during the nighttime combat, which took place in residential neighborhoods of Israeli border towns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No civilians though, huh?
Click to expand...

What soldiers do you think the Palestinians were going to find with a tunnel dug into a Kibbutz ?

Which Israeli communities did the Palestinians mean to attack where there were only soldiers living in them?

IDF confirms Hamas planned massive tunnel attack

IDF officials confirmed Tuesday that Hamas had planned to carry out a massive assault by penetrating Israeli communities via tunnels under the border from the Gaza Strip, and then killing or kidnapping as many people as possible.
------------
And the above was in 2014.

Did the plans change for 2018 with the intention of attacking and kidnapping ONLY soldiers? 

Answer:  NO.

ALL Jews are seen as legitimate military targets by Hamas and its other groups.  And non-Jews die as consequence of their attacks?
Who cares?  They certainly do not, and have not cared if non Jews have been killed in any attacks by Hamas or the P.A.

The charters have not changed one bit.

It is still and always, the destruction of Israel as a country, as the sovereign State of the Jewish People.

Please.....remain ignorant sitting on your roof where you can see Gaza and Israel from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the clueless:
> 
> Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt
> 
> The existence of tunnels used to smuggle terrorists into Israel was revealed in the initial days of the 2014 war between Hamas and Israel. During the night of July 21, 2014, two Hamas cells attempted to penetrate Israel. In one of the attacks, 10 Palestinians exited a tunnel wearing full Israeli army uniforms. Seven Israeli soldiers and at least 10 guerrilla fighters were killed during the nighttime combat, which took place in residential neighborhoods of Israeli border towns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No civilians though, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your heroes weren’t given a chance.
> 
> Hurts your feelings, huh? Another Islamic terrorist fail.
> 
> Commander tinmore’s failed tactics.
Click to expand...

You are just posting clutter.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> 
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the clueless:
> 
> Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt
> 
> The existence of tunnels used to smuggle terrorists into Israel was revealed in the initial days of the 2014 war between Hamas and Israel. During the night of July 21, 2014, two Hamas cells attempted to penetrate Israel. In one of the attacks, 10 Palestinians exited a tunnel wearing full Israeli army uniforms. Seven Israeli soldiers and at least 10 guerrilla fighters were killed during the nighttime combat, which took place in residential neighborhoods of Israeli border towns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No civilians though, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your heroes weren’t given a chance.
> 
> Hurts your feelings, huh? Another Islamic terrorist fail.
> 
> Commander tinmore’s failed tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just posting clutter.
Click to expand...


Your retreat to sidestepping was expected


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
Click to expand...


Because you want to remind us that Hams as is "good" for not using tunnels against civilians, even though its perfectly permissible to use tunnels against civilians?  I mean, its either morally acceptable or its not.  If it is (and your belief is that it is) -- why bother to make the distinction?  Unless you believe that it is generally not morally acceptable?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you want to remind us that Hams as is "good" for not using tunnels against civilians, even though its perfectly permissible to use tunnels against civilians?  I mean, its either morally acceptable or its not.  If it is (and your belief is that it is) -- why bother to make the distinction?  Unless you believe that it is generally not morally acceptable?
Click to expand...

The fact is that they didn't. so what is your point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you want to remind us that Hams as is "good" for not using tunnels against civilians, even though its perfectly permissible to use tunnels against civilians?  I mean, its either morally acceptable or its not.  If it is (and your belief is that it is) -- why bother to make the distinction?  Unless you believe that it is generally not morally acceptable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they didn't. so what is your point?
Click to expand...



The fact is, Israel has learned that it must protect itself from your Islamic terrorist heroes who have been prevented from attacking Israeli citizens.

You point is that you’re angry Islamic terrorist attacks have been prevented.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Friday's "Day of Rage" fizzled badly. Fatah is completely impotent. News media misses story ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah Al Aqsa Brigades makes a new video threatening Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda bullshit. Those tunnels were used exclusively to engage foreign invading troops. They have never been used against civilians. That is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have in the past argued that civilians in Israel are legitimate military targets -- why bother to make the distinction here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you want to remind us that Hams as is "good" for not using tunnels against civilians, even though its perfectly permissible to use tunnels against civilians?  I mean, its either morally acceptable or its not.  If it is (and your belief is that it is) -- why bother to make the distinction?  Unless you believe that it is generally not morally acceptable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is that they didn't. so what is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, Israel has learned that it must protect itself from your Islamic terrorist heroes who have been prevented from attacking Israeli citizens.
> 
> You point is that you’re angry Islamic terrorist attacks have been prevented.
Click to expand...

Oh my, more terrorist cards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers


Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
Click to expand...


Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:

*Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to


Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil

Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander

The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc

Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine

Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.

The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.

Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.

Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.

Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.

Oh, that is right......

You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.  
You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
Click to expand...


I'm surprised Bosnia is not on the list.  Ahed's blonde hair is not emblematic of the Middle East.  She is a foreigner.

Oh, I just saw a Swedish football player on the list.  That must've been her father.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm surprised Bosnia is not on the list.  Ahed's blonde hair is not emblematic of the Middle East.  She is a foreigner.
> 
> Oh, I just saw a Swedish football player on the list.  That must've been her father.
Click to expand...

The Wiki list may not be complete.  How long they lived in Bosnia?
Or any other place they called home?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abu Nawar is not an ancient community. It was set up in the mid-1960s, and as this explains, it was a nomadic community where people moved there seasonally.

There is nothing in the Geneva Conventions that says that buildings built illegally cannot be destroyed. On the contrary, the occupying authorities are expected to enforce existing laws, and certainly Jordanian and Ottoman law would not tolerate the willy-nilly building of shacks on hills without any permission.

The irony is that the UN is saying what a terrible crime it is to relocate a few dozen families who are nomadic anyway, but it insists that over a half million Jews who have lived in the same area for decades (and many of whose ancestors lived there much longer) must be ethnically cleansed from the area they call "Palestine."

(full article online)

EU continues to build illegal settlements - just to complain when Israel demolishes them ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The use of this tactic (declaring everything you disagree with as a violation of the law) has long since spilled over to other political contexts (with everything from the War on Terror to European immigration restrictions being declared “illegal,” based on nothing but the accuser’s desire to put their opponents on the defensive).  But it seems to have reached a somewhat hysterical degree in the case of the Arab-Israeli context lately, especially among those who write press releases such as this which would consist of little more than blank pages if shorn of the words “illegal” and “Apartheid.”

I suspect that part of this has to do with the PA’s all-but-official abandonment of the Oslo process and its choice of Hamas vs. Israel as negotiating partners.  After all, if you have no intention of ever negotiating in good faith or making any acceptable compromises, what better smokescreen than to declare yourself simply trying to force enforcement of (undefined) international law.

(full article online)

Stop Being So Illegal! (Divest This!) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Peace negotiations, with any Arab Muslim?  Any Palestinian ?  
They have their own ideas about what Israel and Jerusalem should become]

According to al-Khatib, the Palestinian Authority is "competing with us in their love for Jerusalem" but they are also the ones who negotiated Jerusalem during the Oslo Accords and were willing to negotiate regarding Jerusalem. Today, when Jerusalem is becoming more Jewish, they cry crocodile tears.

"The city of Al-Quds is the capital city of the Islamic Caliphate, which is run properly," al-Khatib wrote. "With the help of Allah, this will soon become reality."

(full article online)

'Jerusalem will be the capital of the Islamic Caliphate'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to


A very prominent family. They must be proud.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A very prominent family. They must be proud.
Click to expand...

Just as proud as all of these families below and many more like them:

Top 10 crime families of America


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A very prominent family. They must be proud.
Click to expand...


I think you're missing the point.  They are foreigners to "Palestine."


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A very prominent family. They must be proud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're missing the point.  They are foreigners to "Palestine."
Click to expand...

So, who isn't?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is where all of the Tamimis have lived since the name was created:
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> 
> Abdeljelil Temimi (born 1938), Tunisian historian
> Fondation Temimi pour la recherche scientifique et l'information, a Tunisian research institution founded by Abdeljelil
> 
> Abdul Aziz bin Hars bin Asad Yemeni Tamimi (816–944), Muslim saint
> Abdulla Al-Tamimi (born 1994), squash player who represents Qatar
> Abu Al Fazal Abdul Wahid Yemeni Tamimi (842–1034), Yemeni Sufi saint
> Ahlam Tamimi (born 1980), Palestinian militant
> Al-Hurr ibn Yazid al Tamimi, 7th century military general
> Al-Qaqa ibn Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century Arab general
> Alaa al-Tamimi (born 1952), Mayor of Baghdad
> Al-Tamimi, the physician, 10th century Arab physician
> Ali al-Tamimi (born 1963), American biologist and Islamic teacher
> Amal Tamimi (born 1960), Icelandic-Palestinian feminist, social activist, and politician
> Ammar Al-Tamimi (born 1988), squash player who represents Kuwait
> Asim ibn 'Amr al-Tamimi, 7th century military leader of Rashidun Caliphate
> Azzam Tamimi (born 1955), British Palestinian academic and political activist
> Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi, British Islamic scholar
> Bassem al-Tamimi (born c. 1967), Palestinian activist
> Ibn Abi Ramtha al-Tamimi, 7th-century physician
> Jassim Al Tamimi (born 1971), Qatari football midfielder
> Jonathan Tamimi (born 1994), Swedish football player
> Khazim ibn Khuzayma al-Tamimi (fl. 749–768), Khurasani Arab military leader
> Majed Al-Tamimi (born 1971), Saudi Arabian sport shooter
> Mohammed ibn Qasim al-Tamimi (1140/5-1207/8), Moroccan hadith
> Muhammed ibn Umail al-Tamimi, 10th century alchemist
> Munzir ibn Sawa Al Tamimi, 7th century governor of the Persian Sasanid Empire
> Musa ibn Ka'b al-Tamimi, 8th-century Arab commander
> Rafiq al-Tamimi (1889–1957), Palestinian Arab educator and political figure
> Salmann Tamimi (born 1955), Icelandic-Palestinian Muslim, brother of Amal
> Shihab al-Tamimi (died 2008), Iraqi journalist
> Taissir Tamimi, chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority
> Ya'qub ibn Ishaq al-Tamimi, 10th century naval commander
> 
> The common denominator for all of them, including Ahed Tamimi and her family is that they are ARABS, who are indigenous of ARABIA, who have spread around the world and have like all other ARABS taken over land from indigenous people, like the Assyrians, the Kurds, the Jews, etc, etc, etc
> 
> Jews are Jews and their indigenous homeland is Israel = Palestine
> 
> Arabs are Arabs and their indigenous homeland is the Arabian Peninsula.  It does not matter where they went to live, they are still Arabs.
> 
> The Hashemite clan took TransJordan and Judea and Samaria ONLY 100 years ago.  Lands belonging to the Jewish people where they decided NO JEW should live in again.
> 
> Jews are the indigenous, rightful owners of the Land of Israel = Palestine.
> 
> Arabs, like the Hashemites, Husseinis or the Tamimis are the THIEVES of lands from Syria to North Africa.
> 
> Just ask the Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis and all other indigenous peoples of the lands outside the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Oh, that is right......
> 
> You cannot go anywhere, or ask anyone.
> You are stuck on the roof where you live, where you can see the world........forever.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tamimi* or *Temimi* (Arabic: التميمي) is an Arabic surname that may refer to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A very prominent family. They must be proud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're missing the point.  They are foreigners to "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who isn't?
Click to expand...

The Jewish People, recognized as the indigenous people of the Land of Israel by the invading Arab Muslims themselves in the 7th Century and all other invaders to the land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Feb-18: The embarrassing violence of Ahed Tamimi and its fig-leafers
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this dumbfuck does not mention that they are protesting an illegal settlement on their stolen land.
Click to expand...


I find it especially distasteful of you to call the parents of a child blown to pieces in a pizza restaurant by Tamimi terrorists a "dumbfuck".  

The problem is that while they may be protesting what they see as an "illegal settlement on their stolen land" (meaning a Jewish State where there should only be Arabs) -- the Jewish people are ALSO protesting what they see as an "illegal settlement on THEIR stolen land".  

Violence is not the answer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> I find it especially distasteful of you to call the parents of a child blown to pieces in a pizza restaurant by Tamimi terrorists a "dumbfuck".


Then why does he only give the Israeli propaganda part of the story?

Sorry about his loss. Israel really needs to stop its war.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it especially distasteful of you to call the parents of a child blown to pieces in a pizza restaurant by Tamimi terrorists a "dumbfuck".
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does he only give the Israeli propaganda part of the story?
> 
> Sorry about his loss. Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...


Are you truly sorry for the parents' loss of their 15 year old daughter?

War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.

That is what has happened with Muslims against Jews since the Muslims learned that the Jews had gotten a promise to possibly recreate their sovereign on THEIR ancient homeland.

People returning to their ancient homeland is never a war, or stealing.  Jews did not steal any land, they bought what they could.

And from 1920 on, not only they lost Gaza and TransJordan and Hebron to the Muslims, but they also lost too many lives to Muslims who were being incited to believe that Jews were out to kill the Muslims.

So, the opposite happened.  Muslims killed Jews and expelled them from their homes and lands, when Jews never meant to attack Muslims and take over any Muslim homes or lands.

Islam has a war against Judaism and you do know that.

Stop lying to yourself and help the lies to end, and there will be no more war over that land, and there will be no more necessary deaths.

Islam demands that Muslims conquer the world and make people submit to them.

Judaism has never done that, and never will.

And on top of it, you miss the role played by Iran and other Muslim countries in their hatred of Jews (because of Islamic teachings) and do not see, as the Sunni countries see where the real issues are.

Fat, rich Palestinian leaders who would lose all donations into their pockets if they ever signed any Peace treaty with Israel as Egypt and Jordan have done.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it especially distasteful of you to call the parents of a child blown to pieces in a pizza restaurant by Tamimi terrorists a "dumbfuck".
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does he only give the Israeli propaganda part of the story?
> 
> Sorry about his loss. Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you truly sorry for the parents' loss of their 15 year old daughter?
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> That is what has happened with Muslims against Jews since the Muslims learned that the Jews had gotten a promise to possibly recreate their sovereign on THEIR ancient homeland.
> 
> People returning to their ancient homeland is never a war, or stealing.  Jews did not steal any land, they bought what they could.
> 
> And from 1920 on, not only they lost Gaza and TransJordan and Hebron to the Muslims, but they also lost too many lives to Muslims who were being incited to believe that Jews were out to kill the Muslims.
> 
> So, the opposite happened.  Muslims killed Jews and expelled them from their homes and lands, when Jews never meant to attack Muslims and take over any Muslim homes or lands.
> 
> Islam has a war against Judaism and you do know that.
> 
> Stop lying to yourself and help the lies to end, and there will be no more war over that land, and there will be no more necessary deaths.
> 
> Islam demands that Muslims conquer the world and make people submit to them.
> 
> Judaism has never done that, and never will.
> 
> And on top of it, you miss the role played by Iran and other Muslim countries in their hatred of Jews (because of Islamic teachings) and do not see, as the Sunni countries see where the real issues are.
> 
> Fat, rich Palestinian leaders who would lose all donations into their pockets if they ever signed any Peace treaty with Israel as Egypt and Jordan have done.
Click to expand...

Oh my, so many Israeli talking points.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it especially distasteful of you to call the parents of a child blown to pieces in a pizza restaurant by Tamimi terrorists a "dumbfuck".
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does he only give the Israeli propaganda part of the story?
> 
> Sorry about his loss. Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you truly sorry for the parents' loss of their 15 year old daughter?
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> That is what has happened with Muslims against Jews since the Muslims learned that the Jews had gotten a promise to possibly recreate their sovereign on THEIR ancient homeland.
> 
> People returning to their ancient homeland is never a war, or stealing.  Jews did not steal any land, they bought what they could.
> 
> And from 1920 on, not only they lost Gaza and TransJordan and Hebron to the Muslims, but they also lost too many lives to Muslims who were being incited to believe that Jews were out to kill the Muslims.
> 
> So, the opposite happened.  Muslims killed Jews and expelled them from their homes and lands, when Jews never meant to attack Muslims and take over any Muslim homes or lands.
> 
> Islam has a war against Judaism and you do know that.
> 
> Stop lying to yourself and help the lies to end, and there will be no more war over that land, and there will be no more necessary deaths.
> 
> Islam demands that Muslims conquer the world and make people submit to them.
> 
> Judaism has never done that, and never will.
> 
> And on top of it, you miss the role played by Iran and other Muslim countries in their hatred of Jews (because of Islamic teachings) and do not see, as the Sunni countries see where the real issues are.
> 
> Fat, rich Palestinian leaders who would lose all donations into their pockets if they ever signed any Peace treaty with Israel as Egypt and Jordan have done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, so many Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

Oh, my...so much hypocrisy.
So much hatred for facts and history.
So much love to how Christianity and Islam treated and continue to insist in treating Jews all over the world, NOT ONLY Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Secret Arafat diaries reveal covert deals with Italy after cruise ship hijacking


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.


Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
Click to expand...

You are a fake.

And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.

1948.....1948.....1948.......


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
Click to expand...

1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
Click to expand...

Here is your chance!!!  Create one and post it here


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is your chance!!!  Create one and post it here
Click to expand...

How can you draw a map with no borders? It is like a skinless balloon.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is your chance!!!  Create one and post it here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you draw a map with no borders? It is like a skinless balloon.
Click to expand...

You seem to be the only one with no borders.  But, what can be expected ?

Abbas has a map he prefers.  Maybe you can use that one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> War is when one attacks via riots and then murders with the hope of scaring those people into moving out of the land where they live.
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is your chance!!!  Create one and post it here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you draw a map with no borders? It is like a skinless balloon.
Click to expand...


A map of a loosely defined geographic area with no borders and a “country” that doesn’t exist which is occupied by an invented people people with an invented national identity, a result of the musings of an Egyptian. 

Let’s call that place “The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.



You are so cute.  Can't even follow your own arguments.  

Case in point.  According to the succession of states the territory follows the previous designation of boundaries.  

Further, treaties with all the other relevant States adjacent to the territory delineate the boundaries between States, according to law.  

We can all post a map, but you will come up with some random weird way of excusing it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are so cute.  Can't even follow your own arguments.
> 
> Case in point.  According to the succession of states the territory follows the previous designation of boundaries.
> 
> Further, treaties with all the other relevant States adjacent to the territory delineate the boundaries between States, according to law.
> 
> We can all post a map, but you will come up with some random weird way of excusing it.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it is illegal to acquire territory by force. You can occupy a territory by force but occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from Palestine in 1948?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is your chance!!!  Create one and post it here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you draw a map with no borders? It is like a skinless balloon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A map of a loosely defined geographic area with no borders and a “country” that doesn’t exist which is occupied by an invented people people with an invented national identity, a result of the musings of an Egyptian.
> 
> Let’s call that place “The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”
Click to expand...

Posting more meaningless clutter, I see.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Where does hate like that come from? It comes from Students for Justice in Palestine.

The campus hate group is a machine for indoctrinating students into anti-Semitism. It transmits the bigotry of Hatem Bazian, Shahid Alam, Steven Salaita and other bigots linked to the hate group to a new generation of students.

Canary Mission doesn’t just list bigotry on social media by SJP and MSA members, it also features messages from former members of these hate groups coming to termswith their indoctrination.

"As a former member of SJP, I now understand how my actions were anti-Semitic and wrong," one former SJP member wrote, describing an atmosphere of "blatant hatred" that "seems to extend to anyone who was Jewish."

"As a member of SJP, I was shown a lot of anti-Israel material," another wrote. "In retrospect, I recognize that these anti-Israel and anti-Semitic messages are lacking in their substance and depth."









(full article online)

“I Would Have Killed all the Jews in the World”: SJP’s Holocaust Hate


----------



## Sixties Fan

Stoffel writes that: “The Tamimi family is well known in international circles that support Palestinian resistance to the Israeli occupation, which has spanned half a century…” Regrettably, he fails to mention that Tamimi herself comes from a family of notorious Palestinian terrorists. Ahed’s aunt, Ahlam Tamimi, murdered 15 Israelis, (half were children) as a suicide bomber at the Sbarro pizzeria. She was just 20-years-old when she carried out this odious terror attack in Israel. Meanwhile, Ahed’s mother, Nariman, regularly incites terrorism against Israeli Jews on social media. Nariman spends her time by educating Palestinians on the best place on the body to stab Israeli Jews. Though parents are tasked to safeguard their children and not put them in the path of potential danger and yet, Ahed’s Father, Bassem, indoctrinates his daughter to be on the front lines, a would-be “martyr” for the Palestinian cause.

(full article online)

CBC Reporter Whitewashes Palestinian Teen Ahed Tamimi as "The New Face of Palestinian Resistance" | Honest Reporting Canada


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a fake.
> 
> And your endless "1948" mention is always proof of it.
> 
> 1948.....1948.....1948.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948 is Israel's greatest year. Interesting that nobody made a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is your chance!!!  Create one and post it here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you draw a map with no borders? It is like a skinless balloon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A map of a loosely defined geographic area with no borders and a “country” that doesn’t exist which is occupied by an invented people people with an invented national identity, a result of the musings of an Egyptian.
> 
> Let’s call that place “The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posting more meaningless clutter, I see.
Click to expand...


I can’t help but chuckle when you’re forced to sidestep and deflect.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Where does hate like that come from? It comes from Students for Justice in Palestine.
> 
> The campus hate group is a machine for indoctrinating students into anti-Semitism. It transmits the bigotry of Hatem Bazian, Shahid Alam, Steven Salaita and other bigots linked to the hate group to a new generation of students.
> 
> Canary Mission doesn’t just list bigotry on social media by SJP and MSA members, it also features messages from former members of these hate groups coming to termswith their indoctrination.
> 
> "As a former member of SJP, I now understand how my actions were anti-Semitic and wrong," one former SJP member wrote, describing an atmosphere of "blatant hatred" that "seems to extend to anyone who was Jewish."
> 
> "As a member of SJP, I was shown a lot of anti-Israel material," another wrote. "In retrospect, I recognize that these anti-Israel and anti-Semitic messages are lacking in their substance and depth."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> “I Would Have Killed all the Jews in the World”: SJP’s Holocaust Hate





Sixties Fan said:


> Canary Mission doesn’t just list bigotry on social media


WOW, so much hate and name calling. Can anyone take that site seriously?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. 

“The plight of the poor, oppressed Pal’istanians”

Western welfare money used to support Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Did the US give asylum and permanent residence to a woman who supports Palestinian suicide bombings? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*I repeat again. We dispossessed no Arabs*. Our toil in the deserts and marshes of Palestine created more habitable living space for both Arab and Jew. Until 1948 the Arabs of Palestine multiplied and flourished as the direct result of Zionist settlement. Whatever subsequent ills befell the Arabs were the inevitable result of the Arab design to drive us into the sea. Had Israel not repelled her would-be destroyers there would have been no Jewish refugees alive in the Middle East to concern the world.

Now, two years after the surprise attack of the Yom Kippur War, I am well aware of the potency of Arab petrobillions and I have no illusions about the moral fiber of the United Nations, most of whose members hailed gun-toting Yasir Arafat and shamefully passed the anti-Semitic resolution that described Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, as racist.

But though Israel is small and beset, I am not prepared to accede to the easy formula that in the Arab-Israeli conflict we witness two equal contending rights that demand further “flexibility” from Israel. Justice was not violated when in the huge territories liberated by the Allies from the Sultan, 1 percent was set aside for the Jewish homeland on its ancestral site, while in a parallel settlement 99 percent of the area was allotted for the establishment of independent Arab states.

We successively accepted the truncation of Transjordan, three-fourths of the area of historic Palestine, and finally the painful compromise of the 1947 partition resolution in the hope for peace. Yet though Israel arose in only one-fifth of the territory originally assigned for the Jewish homeland, the Arabs invaded the young state.

I ask again, as I have often asked, why did the Arabs not set up a Palestine state in their portion instead of cannibalizing the country by Jordan’s seizure of the West Bank and Egypt’s capture of the Gaza Strip? And, since the question of the 1967 borders looms heavily in the present discussions, why did the Arabs converge upon us in June 1967, when the West Bank, the Golan Heights, the Sinai, the Gaza Strip and old Jerusalem were in their hands?

(full article online)

Golda Meir: On the  Palestinians - and terror


----------



## Sixties Fan

Speaking to _Arutz Sheva _about his findings, Bedein said he is pushing for transparency, a concern of all the donor nations. He suggests that the foreign media ask their stringers on the scene in UNRWA to file stories which portray the stolen food and medical supplies that do not get to the people who need them and for whom they were sent.

Bedein said that two key questions await a response:

Will one news agency assign their UNRWA based stringers to film in real time what happens to humanitarian aid when it arrives to UNRWA?

Will someone organize a tour of UNRWA facilities for donor nations to examine allegations of disappearing humanitarian aid?

(full article online)

Reporter to UNRWA: 'Where has all the flour gone?'


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Why the need to keep reminding the world of the plight of the Palestinians in Syria? It is because the international community and pro-Palestinian groups around the world do not seem to care about the atrocities that are being committed against Palestinians in Syria or any Arab country because they were not committed by Israel.


The 82-year-old Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, has made clear where his priorities stand. Instead of searching for ways to help his people in Syria and the Gaza Strip, where hospitals are facing a deathly shortage of fuel and medicine, Abbas has just spent $50 million to purchase a "presidential plane."


Abbas, however, could not care less. In his view, the needs of his people are the responsibility of the world. He wants everyone but himself to continue funneling financial aid to the Palestinians. For him, delivering a speech before the EU Parliament or the UN General Assembly easily takes precedence over the Palestinians who are dying due to lack of medicine and food.
(full article online)

Palestinians: The Atrocities No One Talks About


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Oh, my.
> 
> “The plight of the poor, oppressed Pal’istanians”
> 
> Western welfare money used to support Islamic terrorists.


This woman hit the nail on the head. Why are all investments going to consumerism that removes money from the economy and not production that would bring money into the economy?
It is the same in the West Bank and Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Why the need to keep reminding the world of the plight of the Palestinians in Syria? It is because the international community and pro-Palestinian groups around the world do not seem to care about the atrocities that are being committed against Palestinians in Syria or any Arab country because they were not committed by Israel.
> 
> 
> The 82-year-old Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, has made clear where his priorities stand. Instead of searching for ways to help his people in Syria and the Gaza Strip, where hospitals are facing a deathly shortage of fuel and medicine, Abbas has just spent $50 million to purchase a "presidential plane."
> 
> 
> Abbas, however, could not care less. In his view, the needs of his people are the responsibility of the world. He wants everyone but himself to continue funneling financial aid to the Palestinians. For him, delivering a speech before the EU Parliament or the UN General Assembly easily takes precedence over the Palestinians who are dying due to lack of medicine and food.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: The Atrocities No One Talks About


All Abbas knows is that he has to suck up to Israel and the US in order to keep his job.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> *I repeat again. We dispossessed no Arabs*. Our toil in the deserts and marshes of Palestine created more habitable living space for both Arab and Jew. Until 1948 the Arabs of Palestine multiplied and flourished as the direct result of Zionist settlement. Whatever subsequent ills befell the Arabs were the inevitable result of the Arab design to drive us into the sea. Had Israel not repelled her would-be destroyers there would have been no Jewish refugees alive in the Middle East to concern the world.
> 
> Now, two years after the surprise attack of the Yom Kippur War, I am well aware of the potency of Arab petrobillions and I have no illusions about the moral fiber of the United Nations, most of whose members hailed gun-toting Yasir Arafat and shamefully passed the anti-Semitic resolution that described Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, as racist.
> 
> But though Israel is small and beset, I am not prepared to accede to the easy formula that in the Arab-Israeli conflict we witness two equal contending rights that demand further “flexibility” from Israel. Justice was not violated when in the huge territories liberated by the Allies from the Sultan, 1 percent was set aside for the Jewish homeland on its ancestral site, while in a parallel settlement 99 percent of the area was allotted for the establishment of independent Arab states.
> 
> We successively accepted the truncation of Transjordan, three-fourths of the area of historic Palestine, and finally the painful compromise of the 1947 partition resolution in the hope for peace. Yet though Israel arose in only one-fifth of the territory originally assigned for the Jewish homeland, the Arabs invaded the young state.
> 
> I ask again, as I have often asked, why did the Arabs not set up a Palestine state in their portion instead of cannibalizing the country by Jordan’s seizure of the West Bank and Egypt’s capture of the Gaza Strip? And, since the question of the 1967 borders looms heavily in the present discussions, why did the Arabs converge upon us in June 1967, when the West Bank, the Golan Heights, the Sinai, the Gaza Strip and old Jerusalem were in their hands?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Golda Meir: On the  Palestinians - and terror



Excellent article.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This week's dead Hamas terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why the need to keep reminding the world of the plight of the Palestinians in Syria? It is because the international community and pro-Palestinian groups around the world do not seem to care about the atrocities that are being committed against Palestinians in Syria or any Arab country because they were not committed by Israel.


The 82-year-old Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, has made clear where his priorities stand. Instead of searching for ways to help his people in Syria and the Gaza Strip, where hospitals are facing a deathly shortage of fuel and medicine, Abbas has just spent $50 million to purchase a "presidential plane."


Abbas, however, could not care less. In his view, the needs of his people are the responsibility of the world. He wants everyone but himself to continue funneling financial aid to the Palestinians. For him, delivering a speech before the EU Parliament or the UN General Assembly easily takes precedence over the Palestinians who are dying due to lack of medicine and food.

(full article online)

Palestinians: The Atrocities No One Talks About


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> All Abbas knows is that he has to suck up to Israel and the US in order to keep his job.


*"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, *as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable". 

*- by Abu Mazen*, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, March 1976
`


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the need to keep reminding the world of the plight of the Palestinians in Syria? It is because the international community and pro-Palestinian groups around the world do not seem to care about the atrocities that are being committed against Palestinians in Syria or any Arab country because they were not committed by Israel.
> 
> 
> The 82-year-old Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, has made clear where his priorities stand. Instead of searching for ways to help his people in Syria and the Gaza Strip, where hospitals are facing a deathly shortage of fuel and medicine, Abbas has just spent $50 million to purchase a "presidential plane."
> 
> 
> Abbas, however, could not care less. In his view, the needs of his people are the responsibility of the world. He wants everyone but himself to continue funneling financial aid to the Palestinians. For him, delivering a speech before the EU Parliament or the UN General Assembly easily takes precedence over the Palestinians who are dying due to lack of medicine and food.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: The Atrocities No One Talks About
> 
> 
> 
> All Abbas knows is that he has to suck up to Israel and the US in order to keep his job.
Click to expand...



Well, Abbas is doing a lousy job of that lately, telling Trump that his house should be destroyed, and saying that America can't be an honest mediator in the talks anymore.  Do you call that "sucking up" in that parallel universe that you live in?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has declared Ahmad Jarrar, the murderer of Rabbi Raziel Shevach, to be a "martyr" and a hero who followed the footsteps of his terrorist father:

(full article and photos online)

Fatah and Hamas agree: Murderer of rabbi is a hero ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is probably true that UNRWA schools outperform government schools. The answer is to help create a good standard for all, not to treat Palestinians as different, which breeds resentment. No modern NGOs would ever consider setting up a separate school system, and there is a good reason why: it violates the basic NGO dictum of "do no harm" and 'conflict sensitivity."

And it is also true that UNRWA teaches a human rights curriculum. However, it doesn't teach that Jews have any rights to live in Israel. It hardly fosters peace. On the contrary, it teaches children that there will be no peace as long as Israel exists as a Jewish state.

 A world that is willing to watch as hungry children cannot access food, students are shut out of their schools, and mothers can no longer access prenatal care is not the world any of us want to live in.Why cannot Palestinians be fed through the World Food Programme? Why can they not attend Palestinian or Jordanian public schools? Why do they need their own medical infrastructure separate from those of their fellow Arabs? Why, indeed, does the world tolerate Arabs discriminating against Palestinians in their midst?

(full article online)

UNRWA's straw man arguments ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Indy editors were clearly aware that the children were moved to nearby facilities to continue classes, but decided not to convey this information to readers. 

A more accurate photo showing the same children actually learning in the nearby guesthouse wouldn’t have been as evocative. The site depicted in the photo is not their new classroom, but merely a photo-op. 

The omission of this small detail gets to the heart of the double standards in coverage of the conflict: foreign journalists covering the region are so careful not to amplify or accept at face value the “hasbara” disseminated by the Israeli government or pro-Israel groups, yet seem perfectly willing to report (as real news) such staged protests and other forms of political street theatre.

(full article online)

Indy treats Palestinian street theatre as real life.


----------



## Sixties Fan

We're evidently in the midst of one of those periodic upticks in Arab-on-Israeli knifing attacks. 

Meanwhile the narrative-spinning of the Palestinian Arab news media continues in its customary manner:
HEBRON, February 7, 2018 (WAFA) – A Palestinian was shot dead by an Israeli security guard on Wednesday following an alleged stabbing attack at an illegal settlement north of Hebron, Palestinian and Israeli reports said. The Israeli army said a Palestinian stabbed a security guard at Karmi Tsur settlement near Halhoul, north of Hebron, before another guard shot him dead. The stabbed guard was taken to hospital where he was reported in light condition. The Palestinian coordinating office identified the alleged attacker as Hamzeh Yousef Zamaareh, 19, from Halhoul. Palestinians said Israeli soldiers raided the Zamaareh home following the incident. WAFA correspondent said residents of the area where the Zamaareh home is located clashed with the soldiers. No injuries were reported. ["_Palestinian shot dead following alleged stabbing attack north of Hebron_", *WAFA*, this morning]

Martyr-style portraits of Zamaareh (or Zamareh) are already circulating in the terrorism-friendly parts of the social media. Here's one that suggests he worked in a pizzeria. His family will now become eligible for payments from the terrorism-encouraging PA Martyr's Fund ("_Rewards for Terror_"). This however will not be mentioned in any mainstream media reports.

*Halhoul* appears frequently in our blog posts. No prizes for guessing why. The most recent murderous attack emanating from Halhoul that we reported is this one: "*17-Nov-17: Ramming/stabbing attack Friday morning at entrance to Efrat*"

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 07-Feb-18: In Gush Etzion's Karmei Tzur, another Arab-on-Israeli knifing Wednesday morning


----------



## Sixties Fan

When asked about the Palestinian Authority's policy of paying salaries to terrorists, Raza said, "The problem is, that when you start having conversations, you can talk about these issues. But if the other side won't even recognize the right of Israel to exist, how can you have a conversation?"

"Peace can only come when two parties want peace. If one party doesn't want peace, then you can't have peace....there has to be equal recognition, and then they can start a conversation.

"I do believe that this is the fault of the Palestinian leadership, because the ordinary person, the youth, are suffering. They want to live their everyday lives, they want to go 9-5 to work like everybody else. They want to bring up their children in peace. But the leadership is very problematic, because they do not allow this to happen. And if....this [sic] terrorist attacks go on, then you don't have time to sit down around the table and talk peace. So definitely there is a leadership problem."

"I'm glad that Jerusalem is going to become the capital of Israel, because I think it will force the world to take notice. And it will make them come round to the fact that this is a country that has a right to exist."

(full article online)

'If the other side doesn't want peace, how can you have peace?'


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  If the P. A.  does not want peace, how can the people be educated to want peace and peace be achieved?  ]

All of the suspects are PA youth and residents of the area. They have been transferred for interrogation.

Earlier on Wednesday, PA Arabs rioted and threw rocks at IDF soldiers operating in the town of Halhul, north of Hevron. The soldiers arrested one of the rioters, and handled the others using crowd dispersal methods.

(full article online)

Watch: Arabs riot near Rachel's Tomb


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Shirley Temper’s Father Bassem Tamimi Pays Tribute to Terrorist Murderer of Rabbi


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas meets with family of soldier-slapping teen


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Gazans who joined IS battling Hamas in Sinai


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why use the word “Zionist” in tandem with the word “settler”? Because the question asserts the untruth that there is some sort of reciprocity to the violence, using the words “Zionist” and “settler” tells anyone who reads the question to equate “Zionist” and “settler” with gratuitous violence against Arabs. Of course, there is no truth to this, as Jews are not attacking Arabs. The opposite is true and has been so for thousands of years. Arabs attack Jews. Period. There is no equivalent violent action toward the Arabs by the Jews.

The term “Palestinian” is also a piece of propaganda, as there has never been a sovereign Arab state known as “Palestine.” The term is used only to delegitimize the State of Israel, the Jewish State and in reality has no meaning.

My answer received 15 upvotes and may have received many more, except for the fact that the moderators collapsed my answer, and requested an edit, suggesting that my response violated Quora’s “Be Nice, Be Respectful” (BNBR) rule. Here is an excerpt from the official Quora explanation of its BNBR policy: 

(full article online)

When the Truth is Treated as Hate Speech (Judean Rose) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Why use the word “Zionist” in tandem with the word “settler”? Because the question asserts the untruth that there is some sort of reciprocity to the violence, using the words “Zionist” and “settler” tells anyone who reads the question to equate “Zionist” and “settler” with gratuitous violence against Arabs. Of course, there is no truth to this, as Jews are not attacking Arabs. The opposite is true and has been so for thousands of years. Arabs attack Jews. Period. There is no equivalent violent action toward the Arabs by the Jews.
> 
> The term “Palestinian” is also a piece of propaganda, as there has never been a sovereign Arab state known as “Palestine.” The term is used only to delegitimize the State of Israel, the Jewish State and in reality has no meaning.
> 
> My answer received 15 upvotes and may have received many more, except for the fact that the moderators collapsed my answer, and requested an edit, suggesting that my response violated Quora’s “Be Nice, Be Respectful” (BNBR) rule. Here is an excerpt from the official Quora explanation of its BNBR policy:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> When the Truth is Treated as Hate Speech (Judean Rose) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Much as I love Elder of Z, I can see room for improvement on that particular forum and with that particular response, even though he is entirely correct.  

It IS a slanted question.  But honestly, I think he attempted to answer above the questioner's pay grade.  There may have been better ways to enter into that conversation.  imo


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why use the word “Zionist” in tandem with the word “settler”? Because the question asserts the untruth that there is some sort of reciprocity to the violence, using the words “Zionist” and “settler” tells anyone who reads the question to equate “Zionist” and “settler” with gratuitous violence against Arabs. Of course, there is no truth to this, as Jews are not attacking Arabs. The opposite is true and has been so for thousands of years. Arabs attack Jews. Period. There is no equivalent violent action toward the Arabs by the Jews.
> 
> The term “Palestinian” is also a piece of propaganda, as there has never been a sovereign Arab state known as “Palestine.” The term is used only to delegitimize the State of Israel, the Jewish State and in reality has no meaning.
> 
> My answer received 15 upvotes and may have received many more, except for the fact that the moderators collapsed my answer, and requested an edit, suggesting that my response violated Quora’s “Be Nice, Be Respectful” (BNBR) rule. Here is an excerpt from the official Quora explanation of its BNBR policy:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> When the Truth is Treated as Hate Speech (Judean Rose) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much as I love Elder of Z, I can see room for improvement on that particular forum and with that particular response, even though he is entirely correct.
> 
> It IS a slanted question.  But honestly, I think he attempted to answer above the questioner's pay grade.  There may have been better ways to enter into that conversation.  imo
Click to expand...

Elder is a he, and Judean Rose is a she.  As you probably know, Elder posts his own comments plus articles from around the web, like this one.

I have tried to read Quora, but always had a problem going into it.
It seems to be a pro Palestinian site, where most of the questions about the conflict are not kind to Israel.

Being aware of it, Judea Rose could have written it better, but how are any one of us supposed to know what is going to be considered hate language, which Quora did not even allow her to edit.

I have seen this before, on another site which is now gone.

With Quora and others sites, one can only do so much when answering a question, which as you know.....was slanted.

Quora is basically telling readers that unless you write in a certain way.....you will be deleted for hate speech.

Where have we not seen this before when it comes to Israel and pro Israel people answering certain questions?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Settler-Colonialism


----------



## Sixties Fan

The two top stories at the Palestinian Ministry of Information website (autotranslated above) reveals much about how the West coddles a government whose ideals are completely at odds with civilized society.

The top story threatens any Arab journalist, and their employers, who would dare to visit Israel, in the wake of reports that nine journalists from Morocco. Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen and Syria are planning to come to Israel next week.
-------





Imagine the impact to peace if just once, a Western government would cancel a photo-op visit like this because of the outrageous lies and slanders and threats that come just from this one ministry. 

(full article online)

Palestinian Ministry of Information threatens Arab press freedoms - and welcomes clueless British delegation ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The question remains.....where does the money donated to Gaza by the US, EU and others go?  ]

Infusion should be enough to keep critical medical services in the Strip running for at least a few months

(full article online)

UAE donates $2 million to prevent shutdown of Gaza’s hospitals


----------



## Sixties Fan

An article in the official PA daily acknowledged that 161 Palestinians were killed while carrying out stabbing attacks during the Palestinian wave of terror in 2015-2016 during which 40 people were murdered by Palestinians and over 500 wounded.

Palestinian Media Watch documented at the time that the PA falsely claimed that Israel "fabricated" the stabbing attacks, and "planted knives" next to the dead bodies of "innocent Palestinian victims" after having "executed" them in "cold blood." 

One cartoon tweeted by Abbas' Fatah Movement in November 2015 visualized the PA libel showing an Israeli soldier dropping knives near the bodies of dead Palestinians:

(full article online)

Official PA daily admits 161 Palestinians did carry out stabbing attacks during Palestinian terror wave 2015-2016 - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What must wonder what these diaries say about the Camp Davis signing, the why he did not sign it, and the intifada which followed ]

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...e-thief-who-stole-yassers-diaries/2018/02/07/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades Establish 'Yasser Arafat' Military Base In Gaza, Announces: No One Will Take the Weapons Of Resistance From Us, Fatah Is True To The Path Of Armed Struggle


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/02/...rdered-israelis-alongside-living-politicians/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Running Scared


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hebrew on the poster is quite poor, but what it appears to say under the murdered rabbis is "Liquidated - Dead" (the word "Dead" is spelled backwards) and under the others it seems to say "Scheduled to be liquidated."

Just something else outrageous from "Palestine" that barely even makes the Israeli media, let alone the international media.

(full article online)

At terror rally, Hamas displays poster of rabbis they want to kill. (But don't call them antisemtiic.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The question whether Israel should rise above the terror and, despite facing a five-year drought itself, be generous with its water, is reminiscent of Aesop's fable about the ant and the grasshopper. The ant, who slaved all summer, was well fed in the winter. The ant's generosity does not have the power to help the grasshopper. The most Israel can do is to bring the liquid of life to the border, where it will only be met with chaos and darkness.

But even if it were to receive the millions of cubic meters of water that it lacks, Gaza is ill-equipped to collect it. This colossal failure is shared by the Hamas leadership, which prefers rockets over desalination membranes, and the U.N. agency UNRWA, which, after 69 years, still can't manage to provide a third generation of Palestinian refugees the proper living environment, as it is required to do under U.N. General Assembly Resolution 302.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/like-water-for-gaza/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Was today supposed to be a "day of rage"?  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Egyptian Journalist And TV Host Ibrahim Eissa: The Palestinians Who Carried Out The 1972 Olympics Massacre Were Terrorists, Not Fedayeen


----------



## Sixties Fan

With its easy access - located near major highways and half-way between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, Bi'in is host to an ongoing media-focused cottage industry of holding weekly "protests" to which members of the reporting industry have made their way on Friiday's throughout the past thirteen years [see *Al Jazeera* for background]

The underlying story, which is egregiously ignored by the mainstream media, is the way fifteen year-old Palestinian Arab children are front-line troops on behalf of the Palestinian Arab cause, having undergone a relentless and ongoing process of weaponization in their schools, social media and mosques.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 10-Feb-18: Two more Arab-on-Israeli stabbing attacks thwarted; both perpetrators are just 15


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 09-Feb-18: At the Tomb of Patriarchs, yet another thwarted Arab-on-Israeli stabbing attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

Participating in a panel discussion at St. Olaf College in Minnesota, *Robert Benne*—an expert on Lutheran theology—found himself deeply disturbed by one of his co-panelists, the prominent Palestinian Lutheran pastor Mitri Raheb. Raheb, “something of a celebrity” on the campus, has been influential in bringing the anti-Israel cause—including boycotts—to mainline Protestant churches. In his talk, Raheb repeated, to enthusiastic applause, the standard anti-Israel talking points about apartheid, colonialism, and the like, adding the claim that Jews have no ancestral connection to the ancient Judeans and Israelites. Even more troubling, Benne found in Raheb’s words a revival of supersessionism—the doctrine that the advent of Christianity has completely voided God’s prior covenant with Israel:

(full article online)

The Palestinian Theologian Trying to Turn Christian Churches against Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt closes Rafah again, many stranded ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas then explained that his definition of "negotiations" is very narrow:

"We have been ready for [negotiations,] and the formation of a multilateral mechanism emanating from multiple states is the best way to sponsor these negotiations. It is in this context that we count on India's role as an international force of great stature and weight to contribute to a just and desirable peace in our region, which has an impact on global peace and security," Abbas continued.

Abbas is saying that, as long as the outcome of negotiations can be determined ahead of time by including lots of players who he perceives as anti-Israel and not including the US, then "negotiations" are fine.

Modi, diplomatically, wanted nothing to do with Abbas' doubletalk.

"We hope for peace and stability in Palestine, we believe a permanent solution is possible with dialogue. Only diplomacy and far-sightedness can set free from violence and baggage of the past. We know it is not easy but we need to keep trying as a lot is at stake," Modi said.

Abbas is saying that he is against dialogue with Israel and wants to use the international community to force Israel to give up everything while the Palestinians give up nothing. Modi pointedly used the word "dialogue," by definition direct negotiations with Israel, that Abbas rejects.

(full article online)

India's PM politely rejects Abbas' warped idea of "negotiations" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Contradicting Mahmoud Abbas' claims that the PA "seeks peace," his Fatah Movement continues to glorify terrorists and promote terror. On Wednesday last week, just hours after a terror attack, Fatah was already honoring the terrorist. The terrorist, Hamza Yusuf Zamaarah, who was killed while trying to stab an Israeli security guard, was immediately hailed as the "*heroic Martyr... who carried out the heroic stabbing operation*," by Fatah's Bethlehem branch. Fatah also asked Allah to "have mercy on the Martyr, let him dwell in Paradise, and grant his family consolation and patience." 
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, Feb. 7, 2018]

(full article online)

Fatah glorified Wednesday`s terrorist: "Heroic Martyr... who carried out the heroic stabbing operation" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Section 212:

INA: ACT 212 - GENERAL CLASSES OF ALIENS INELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE VISAS AND INELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION; WAIVERS OF INADMISSIBILLITY
(VII) endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse
 or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization;Saying that " She walked proudly and with confident steps as if she were walking toward the gates of Heavens, and within minutes she blew herself up near the Bit Sira military checkpoint, killing scores of Israelis and injuring others" is espousing terrorist activity.

Zourob should not have received asylum, and should be deported, under US law.

(full article online)

Followup on Palestinian terror supporter given asylum in the US: She should be expelled under US law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Please, please do not attack us.....Pass the candy !!!!   ]


Palestinians on Saturday hailed the shooting down of an Israeli F-16 by Syria, with some celebrating in the streets and terror groups in the Gaza Strip calling the incident a “severe blow” to Israel.

(full article and photos online)

Palestinians cheer downing of F-16, warn Israel not to attack Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza’s largest hospital suspends surgeries due to cleaners’ strike


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Participating in a panel discussion at St. Olaf College in Minnesota, *Robert Benne*—an expert on Lutheran theology—found himself deeply disturbed by one of his co-panelists, the prominent Palestinian Lutheran pastor Mitri Raheb. Raheb, “something of a celebrity” on the campus, has been influential in bringing the anti-Israel cause—including boycotts—to mainline Protestant churches. In his talk, Raheb repeated, to enthusiastic applause, the standard anti-Israel talking points about apartheid, colonialism, and the like, adding the claim that Jews have no ancestral connection to the ancient Judeans and Israelites. Even more troubling, Benne found in Raheb’s words a revival of supersessionism—the doctrine that the advent of Christianity has completely voided God’s prior covenant with Israel:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Theologian Trying to Turn Christian Churches against Jews


In his own words. I don't see a problem.

*A Tough Calling: The Joys and Struggles of Pastoring in Palestine - Mitri Raheb*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Oh jeese, another Christian persecution article out of Israel.

What these liars do not tell you is that these guys who were "attacked" by Hamas were Fatah members performing the coup against the PA. Of course Hamas ran them out of Gaza and the coup failed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Christian persecution article out of Israel.
> 
> What these liars do not tell you is that these guys who were "attacked" by Hamas were Fatah members performing the coup against the PA. Of course Hamas ran them out of Gaza and the coup failed.
Click to expand...


Oh my. Another retreat to conspiracy theory as a means to sidestep Islamic fascism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why doesn't the PA return stolen Israeli cars to Israel? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Christian persecution article out of Israel.
> 
> What these liars do not tell you is that these guys who were "attacked" by Hamas were Fatah members performing the coup against the PA. Of course Hamas ran them out of Gaza and the coup failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my. Another retreat to conspiracy theory as a means to sidestep Islamic fascism.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Why doesn't the PA return stolen Israeli cars to Israel? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


They gain nothing from destroying the cars.​
What does Israel have to gain by destroying Palestinian stuff?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Christian persecution article out of Israel.
> 
> What these liars do not tell you is that these guys who were "attacked" by Hamas were Fatah members performing the coup against the PA. Of course Hamas ran them out of Gaza and the coup failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my. Another retreat to conspiracy theory as a means to sidestep Islamic fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


Don’t let your hurt feelings get in the way.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

To put this in context, the PLO budgets over $28 million a month to pay both prisoner salaries and and families of "martyrs."

They willingly pay 100 times the amount needed for keeping hospitals open - to terrorists.

The entire world is complicit with this.

Which is more important, UNRWA schools where they teach support for terror and destroying Israel, or hospitals? Obviously, UNRWA, because that's what gets the funding.

The World Bank looks at the PA budget every year and makes recommendations to help its economy - but doesn't say a word about the high percentage of the funds that go to pay terrorists and their families.

"Pro-Palestinian" NGOs? Don't be absurd - their money goes towards political initiatives to fight Israel, not to actually help Palestinians.

The hospital situation in Gaza shows, in no uncertain terms, what the priorities of the "State of Palestine" are - and they are not to help their own people.

Yet the world continues to fund these leaders who willingly sacrifice their own people.

(I have to wonder why the many NGOs in Gaza cannot find volunteers to clean up the hospitals. Chances are they'd be threatened.)

(full article online)

Palestinians continue to prioritize paying terrorists over paying hospital staff. (So does the world, incidentally.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ahed Tamimi's father praises murderer of rabbi, yet media still considers family to be icons of non-violence ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shin Bet arrests two terrorists who raised money in Turkey for Hamas, with goal of carrying out attacks against Jews.

(full article online)

Hamas operations exposed in Turkey


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> Ahed Tamimi's father praises murderer of rabbi, yet media still considers family to be icons of non-violence ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


"Glory, mercy, and peace on your soul in Heaven" is what Tamimi said


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi's father praises murderer of rabbi, yet media still considers family to be icons of non-violence ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> "Glory, mercy, and peace on your soul in Heaven" is what Tamimi said
Click to expand...


Gee whiz. Selectively editing.

How dishonest. 




"Glory, mercy, and peace on your soul in Heaven" is what Tamimi said about the murderer."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah celebrated the anniversary of the death of a "heroic Martyr" and "giant" who blew himself up on a bus in Jerusalem and murdered 11 Israelis and wounded dozens, on Jan. 29, 2004. The suicide bomber Ali Munir Yusuf Ja'ara was from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (Fatah's military wing) and a member of the PA police force.

Fatah's Bethlehem branch praised the murderer and celebrated his killing of "11 Zionists":

"Ali Munir Yusuf Ja'ara... This giant, who rose up, shattered the enemy's myth, crossed its separation fence, its fortifications, and its feeble Israeli Security Agency forces, got on bus number 19, and blew his body up in exactly the same neighborhood where arch-murderer [then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon lived. Martyrdom-seeker Ali Munir Ja'ara from the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem blew himself up inside a Zionist bus next to the home of the terrorist Sharon in occupied Jerusalem, which led to the death of 11 Zionists and the wounding of approximately 53 others."
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - 
Bethlehem Branch, Jan. 29, 2018]

(full article online)

Fatah: Suicide bomber is "the giant" who "blew himself up inside a Zionist bus" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

What’s today – Sunday? That’s the day Mahmoud Abbas threatened to cut off all ties with Israel.

On Friday, he threatened to cut off all ties with the United States.

On Thursday, he threatened to go to the Security Council to have Israel and the United States cut off from the United Nations.

On Wednesday, he threatened to go before the ICC, International Criminal Court to have everybody cut off and arrested.  

On Tuesday, through his propaganda minister Saeb Erekat who told her to “shut up,” Abbas threatened to cut off all ties with Nikki Haley.

On Monday, he threatened to cut off all ties with President Trump.

I may have the days wrong, off a day or two, but not the facts…clearly, that the man has lost his marbles.

(full article online)

How Mahmoud Abbas lost his marbles


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Zoabi does not like the Democracy she lives in.  Because it is Israel.  She certainly would prefer the Muslim caliphate where her Christian identity would become invisible ]

"Maybe you forgot some of your belongings on the Marmara, too," Moale-Refaeli pointed out.

Footage of Zoabi on the Turkish Mavi Marmara flotilla proves Zoabi's involvement in an attack on IDF soldiers. Zoabi has met with senior Hamas terrorists, said that Israel has "no right to a normal life," and stated that "Jews are not nationality, so we cannot talk about self-determination for the Jewish people."

In October 2017, Zoabi said, "We use this democracy - of course, there is a question of why you...give legitimacy to Israel when you are within the Knesset. This is true. So remember, I am telling you now that now we have the ability to use these tools, the democratic tools, for our own interests, for our own national approaching [sic].

(full article online)

Arab MK calls IDF soldiers 'murderers'


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: 5 Examples of Hamas Exploitation of Humanitarian Aid


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs last week hosted “special guests” from the Arab world in Jerusalem – a delegation of nine Moroccan, Lebanese, Syrian, Kurdish  and Yemeni journalists who came in order to “get to know Israel, its history and its society from up close,” the ministry said.

In response, the Palestinian Authority (PA) on Thursday denounced the journalists’ visit and called for their blacklisting.

(full article online)

Palestinians Enraged by Israel’s Welcome of ‘Special Guests’ from Arab World


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Next...the Inquisition .....]

However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."

The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."

Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."

It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.

(full article online)

Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).

The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.

Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:

(full article online)

The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House


----------



## Sixties Fan

My Right Word: Still Waiting Since 1939


----------



## Sixties Fan

In case you missed it, a map erasing Israel and making it all-Arab





(full article online)

My Right Word: Wearing Out Peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Billions of Dollars for the PA for infrastructure.  Nowhere to be seen ]

Marco Ben Shabat, director of the Civil Administration's monitoring unit, says that daily efforts are made to deal with hazards polluting the environment. "This is a flagrant violation of the law, and beyond that, causes severe harm to the environment. No one has the right to harm the natural environment that belongs to all of us and this is a common goal of all the bodies.We will continue to act to thwart and eradicate the phenomenon, in the hope that the entire population of the region will mobilize to put an end to crimes which harm the environment."

(full article online)

Israel shuts down illegal Arab garbage dump in Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Mirror Image: How the PLO Mimics Zionism, Pipes writes that "Palestinian nationalists have time and again modeled their institutions, ideas, and practices on the Zionist movement. This ironic tribute means that the peculiar nature of the PLO can be understood only with reference to its Zionist inspiration."

The similarities go beyond copying the purpose of the organization, such as the National Association of Arab-Americans emulating the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

Some Palestinian organizations mimic the original Zionist organization as well:

Palestinian Organization---Zionist Organization
Anti-Discrimination Committee-----Anti-Defamation League
the Holy Land Fund-----the Jewish National Fund
the United Palestinian Appeal------the United Jewish Appeal

Pipes writes that the emulation goes beyond organizations and agencies:

 o  Palestinian Arabs sometimes refer to themselves as the "Jews of the Middle East"
o  They claim that like Jews, they suffer prejudice, dispossession and expulsion despite being more educated than the majority population
o  Just as Jews were thrown out of multiple countries, they were forced out of Jordon, Lebanon and Kuwait in only 20 years
o  Palestinian Arabs claim their treatment by Israel is analogous to the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust
o  The Palestinian claim to a "Right of Return" mimics the Israeli "Law of Return"And then, of course, there is Jerusalem:
 Jerusalem is the only capital of a Jewish state, as well as a unique city in Jewish history, religion, and emotions. In contrast, the city is so minor in Islam, it is not even once mentioned in the Qur'an. Nor did it ever serve as a political capital or cultural center...

(full article online)

Do You Really Want To Argue That Israel Stole The Hora From The Palestinians? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bernard Lewis writes similarly in his book, The Arabs in History:
 The use of the adjective Arab to describe the various facets of this civilisation has often been challenged on the grounds that the contribution to "Arab medicine", "Arab philosophy", etc, of those who were of Arab descent was relatively small. Even the use of the word Muslim is criticised, since so many of the architects of this culture were Christians and Jews.

During the period of greatness of the Arab and Islamic Empires in the Near and Middle East a flourishing civilisation grew up that is usually known as Arabic. It was not brought ready-made by the Arab invaders from the desert, but was created after the conquests by the collaboration of many peoples, Arabs, Persians, Egyptians and others. Nor was it even purely Muslim, for many Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians were among its creators. (p.14, 131)With all that shared history and shared culture over 1,400 years, maybe the Arabs can share a dance or a falafel for old times sake.

https://www.amazon.com/Arabs-Histor...nard+lewis+the+arabs+in+history&tag=ff0d01-20


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel's Ambassador to the UN, Danny Danon, slammed Abushawesh's comments, saying, "The Palestinians are no longer trying to hide the truth. The Palestinian leadership and its representatives are inciting against Israel and openly encouraging terrorism. The international community must not allow it." 


"It cannot be that inside the UN, which is supposed to make peace and protect human rights, a diplomat will incite to violence and terrorism, which wound and even kill innocent Israelis," Danon added.

(full article online)

Palestinian diplomat: Well continue teaching our kids to throw stones


----------



## Sixties Fan

7-Year-Old Palestinian Girl Rouaa Al-Tamimi Recites Poem about Martyrdom on Radio, Then Addresses "Accursed Trump" in Meeting with Education Minister


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rivalry between Hamas, Fatah after Gaza coup


----------



## Sixties Fan

Every week, Rami Hamdallah, the "prime minister" of the Palestinian Authority, a person who has no real power, has a cabinet meeting where pronouncements are made and nothing is actually done.

The statements do show how much the Palestinian Authority likes to fool itself, and its own people.

This week the statements included:

(full article online)

The lies the Palestinians tell themselves and the world ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.

The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.



Sixties Fan said:


> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:

•  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:

√  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
√  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:

•  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel. 

•  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.

•  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The surviving Arabs (Palestinians)who fled or were expelled because they were attacking Israel have been getting plenty of compensation from all parties.  The main issue is, the leaders who continue to take the lion share of all the money and donations sent to them.

No compensation has ever been given or even considered for all the Jews expelled, etc from 1920 to 1948 from Gaza, Hebron or Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.

Or the nearly Million Jews expelled from Arab countries to flood Israel and try to destroy it that way in 1951.

In other words, the surviving Arab Palestinians (about 20,000 of them) do not get to cry victimhood from the Jews or anyone else but their leaders who have been dragging the survivors, and others, into an endless war of destruction of Israel and the Jews.

The Palestinians are not inventing being victims of the Holocaust, 
when they should be the ones giving back all that has been wasted in trying to build them a State since 1993.

The Oslo Accords had a meaning for Israel.
Not for Arafat and all Arabs who wish to see Israel destroyed.

Another 10 to 20 years, and the Arabs will not be able to say that there are any living Arab refugees to speak of from the 1948 war started by their leaders, while all other authentic refugees have mostly found another country which would take them in and become part of them.

Sooner than later all of this refugee issue will end, and it will not end well for the Arabs of Gaza and Judea and Samaria who have no power, no jobs and no money.  

Israel already helps as much as it can with giving jobs, education and health care to those who need it and are not a threat to the country, even if sometimes some abuse the good gesture.

Let us see what will happen with Iran's attempt to destroy Israel.

Stay tuned everyone


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Well, I'm sure there is an argument to be made.  I'm just not sure the Israelis should make it.



Sixties Fan said:


> The surviving Arabs (Palestinians)who fled or were expelled because they were attacking Israel have been getting plenty of compensation from all parties.  The main issue is, the leaders who continue to take the lion share of all the money and donations sent to them.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I agree...  The surviving Arab Palestinians have received plenty of compensation.  But that is one of the problems.  They were given compensation and welfare, and yet still promote conflict.  That should be stopped.  The entire point of the money flowing into the Arab Palestinians was to reset, at some point, the economy; such that the amount of external flow into Arab Palestine would gradually decrease as the Arab Palestinians become more profitable.

However, the Arab Palestinians, instead of becoming more productive, have become LESS productive and MORE violent.  Now, the tide has turned.  And the general consensus is that funding has only served to promote more violence and the fuel needs to be cut-off.

Domestic corruptions, where prominently place Arab Palestinian leaders skim income off the top of donor contributions and grants, is criminal; but, not a political crime.  It is up to the citizens of Arab Palestine, that should correct the matter --- just as any other country would.  Politicians bleeding funds for their own personal gain is not unique to Arab Palestine (West Ban and Gaza Strip).  It happens everywhere.



Sixties Fan said:


> No compensation has ever been given or even considered for all the Jews expelled, etc from 1920 to 1948 from Gaza, Hebron or Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.


*(COMMENT)*

While it is very true that the Paris Reparation Agreement of January 1946, is key to the discussion's relevance → the doctrinal question on the Paris Agreement is in the precedence and primacy of interstate reparation that, many seem to believe the Paris Agreement is claimed to establish is the correct model.  _(I'm simply not so sure.)_  Certainly, we do not want to see a repeat of the causes in the century holding two World Wars, to be an ignition for a century of war in the Middle East (centered on Israel).

The concept here is the lesson learned; don't bankrupt the new generation of Arab Palestinian citizens to the degree that the become marionettes for war → Jihadism, aggressive Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence → the very things we are trying to squelch _(lifting the suppression on the necessary positive output that improves the Arab Palestinian economy)_.  In the  context of political entropy, we want to set the conditions for the Arab Palestinians such that there is a gradual decline into disorder.  The Arab Palestinians want peace in order to save what they have from destruction or devaluation.



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel already helps as much as it can with giving jobs, education and health care to those who need it and are not a threat to the country, even if sometimes some abuse the good gesture.


*(COMMENT)*

In order to appreciate what you have, you must first appreciate not having it.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Well, I'm sure there is an argument to be made.  I'm just not sure the Israelis should make it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The surviving Arabs (Palestinians)who fled or were expelled because they were attacking Israel have been getting plenty of compensation from all parties.  The main issue is, the leaders who continue to take the lion share of all the money and donations sent to them.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, I agree...  The surviving Arab Palestinians have received plenty of compensation.  But that is one of the problems.  They were given compensation and welfare, and yet still promote conflict.  That should be stopped.  The entire point of the money flowing into the Arab Palestinians was to reset, at some point, the economy; such that the amount of external flow into Arab Palestine would gradually decrease as the Arab Palestinians become more profitable.
> 
> However, the Arab Palestinians, instead of becoming more productive, have become LESS productive and MORE violent.  Now, the tide has turned.  And the general consensus is that funding has only served to promote more violence and the fuel needs to be cut-off.
> 
> Domestic corruptions, where prominently place Arab Palestinian leaders skim income off the top of donor contributions and grants, is criminal; but, not a political crime.  It is up to the citizens of Arab Palestine, that should correct the matter --- just as any other country would.  Politicians bleeding funds for their own personal gain is not unique to Arab Palestine (West Ban and Gaza Strip).  It happens everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No compensation has ever been given or even considered for all the Jews expelled, etc from 1920 to 1948 from Gaza, Hebron or Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is very true that the Paris Reparation Agreement of January 1946, is key to the discussion's relevance → the doctrinal question on the Paris Agreement is in the precedence and primacy of interstate reparation that, many seem to believe the Paris Agreement is claimed to establish is the correct model.  _(I'm simply not so sure.)_  Certainly, we do not want to see a repeat of the causes in the century holding two World Wars, to be an ignition for a century of war in the Middle East (centered on Israel).
> 
> The concept here is the lesson learned; don't bankrupt the new generation of Arab Palestinian citizens to the degree that the become marionettes for war → Jihadism, aggressive Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence → the very things we are trying to squelch _(lifting the suppression on the necessary positive output that improves the Arab Palestinian economy)_.  In the  context of political entropy, we want to set the conditions for the Arab Palestinians such that there is a gradual decline into disorder.  The Arab Palestinians want peace in order to save what they have from destruction or devaluation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel already helps as much as it can with giving jobs, education and health care to those who need it and are not a threat to the country, even if sometimes some abuse the good gesture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In order to appreciate what you have, you must first appreciate not having it.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is impossible for the Palestinian Arabs to appreciate what they do not have as long as everyone keeps giving them money and they keep putting it away, and keeping all other Arab Palestinians close to poverty or despair that the Jews have "Palestinian land" and must be defeated at any cost.

The main issue with the article was about the Palestinians crying at being "Holocaust victims'.

They are not, never have been, therefore no compensation for anything which happened with the creation of Israel will ever come their way.

The Jewish people got the right with the Mandate for Palestine to recreate their Nation.  They did so by 1948 against all odds since the first Arab riots of 1920.

The Muslims have found a great way to cry to the world what victims the Palestinians are at the hands of the Jews.

Islamic mentality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?
Click to expand...

From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.

You know.....where you never go


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.
> 
> You know.....where you never go
Click to expand...

Like nutjob Zionists looking to grab more money.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.
> 
> You know.....where you never go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like nutjob Zionists looking to grab more money.
Click to expand...

Like the very antisemitic thing you just typed .

tsk, tsk, tsk....


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Next...the Inquisition .....]
> 
> However, Kiwan asserts, "There are non-Jewish victims of Nazism that must be recognized, and they are many, but the Palestinians are the most prominent."
> 
> The reason? Obviously, because the Jews after the war came to British Mandate Palestine, and "the Zionist forces destroyed [Arab ]villages and displaced about 900,000 of them, persecuted them after they were massacred, and killed all those who tried to return and occupied the rest of their homeland to this day."
> 
> Therefore, Kiwan says,  Palestinian Arabs "have the right to demand compensation from Germany as the Jews received compensation, as well as compensation from all the countries supporting Israel aggression at the expense of their presence."
> 
> It takes a lot of energy to constantly try to be the world's biggest victim entitled to free money forever.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab author demands Holocaust reparations from Germany - because Palestinians were "Holocaust victims," too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.
> 
> You know.....where you never go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like nutjob Zionists looking to grab more money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the very antisemitic thing you just typed .
> 
> tsk, tsk, tsk....
Click to expand...

Pound your antisemite card up your ass.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It seems almost incredible to say, that at this late date (a century after the Balfour Declaration) → and after two major follow-ups to wars to settle the question of the Independence of the Jewish State Israel and territorial appropriation and apportionment, → that reparation and restitution as forms of more general compensation for war damage and terrorism → to be paid by the defeated and restrained state and non-state actors → should still be on the table.
> 
> The focus of penalties being placed on the Arab Palestinians (and associates), for causing all the loss of life and damages to which the people of the world have been subjected to a status of permanent negotiation. → As a consequence of the hostile actions taken by Arab Palestinians and other associate conspirators → intended to pervert the course of justice and coerce or intimidate governments and citizenry in the pursuit of goals already rejected by peaceful means → should only be a question of the magnitude of pain and suffering the Arab Palestinians should be made to suffer.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Yes, relative to the 900K displaced Arab Palestinians; there should be some discussion on two sliding scales:
> 
> •  How much the surviving Arab Palestinians should be made to compensate for their removal as civilian persons from the dangers in the proximity and vicinity of military operations for the:
> 
> √  Protections of Arab Palestinians lives as collateral casualties.
> √  For the purpose of establishing rear area security Israeli Civilians from Hostile Arab Palestinians.​
> ✪  How much should be deemed reasonable for the seven decades of maintaining control of Arab Palestinians that have not making a good faith effort over the last seven decades:
> 
> •  Continuously projecting a credible threat and using of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  And the estimate cost of the organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or asymmetric warfare activities in Israel.
> 
> •  The cost of the Arab Palestinian purposefully avoiding and obstructing progress in settling its international 1948 and 1967 territorial disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security  are not endangered.
> 
> •  The cost of maintaining a quasi-government with no ability to stand alone; to include the waste of donor nation contributions, cost of maintaining good order and peace, the cost of health/welfare and sustenance for Arab Palestinians that have never lived inside Israel and claim only descendant status.​
> Now, it is unlikely that the Israelis will prepare a settlement agreement that would also cover these challenges.  But that does not mean that they should not put the pencil to paper and compute the costs.  Nor does it prevent the look into the future to see what possible contributions the Arab Palestinians could make in terms of Human Development.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.
> 
> You know.....where you never go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like nutjob Zionists looking to grab more money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the very antisemitic thing you just typed .
> 
> tsk, tsk, tsk....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pound your antisemite card up your ass.
Click to expand...


Which should magically turn You into a less of a Jew hater?

I though that after 9 years of daily Israel bashing, You'd come with something more original.


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, Rocco, where do you get this shit?
> 
> 
> 
> From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.
> 
> You know.....where you never go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like nutjob Zionists looking to grab more money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the very antisemitic thing you just typed .
> 
> tsk, tsk, tsk....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pound your antisemite card up your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which should magically turn You into a less of a Jew hater?
> 
> I though that after 9 years of daily Israel bashing, You'd come with something more original.
Click to expand...

9 years.....and Israel only grows stronger.....and the Palestinians (cough) keep shooting themselves in the foot and sending their people to kill others and themselves......

Martyrdom#metoo


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans say they want to march en masse to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the wealth of information available to intelligent people.
> 
> You know.....where you never go
> 
> 
> 
> Like nutjob Zionists looking to grab more money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the very antisemitic thing you just typed .
> 
> tsk, tsk, tsk....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pound your antisemite card up your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which should magically turn You into a less of a Jew hater?
> 
> I though that after 9 years of daily Israel bashing, You'd come with something more original.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 9 years.....and Israel only grows stronger.....and the Palestinians (cough) keep shooting themselves in the foot and sending their people to kill others and themselves......
> 
> Martyrdom#metoo
Click to expand...


Wow...9 years ago 2009..where were we..

About 6 years after Ilan Ramon and a couple more years after IAF first talked about anti-gravitational research...yes 2009.

Where were the Arabs that year?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Poor, poor Palestinians and their poor, poor, poor protesters.
Once a victim, always a victim.....even if they are the ones provoking and creating problems, or attacking.......(Islam's mentality)  ]

KCL - will someone please protect the Jewish students?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

I suppose this must be from one of those arm chair extremist whose only weapon is the tarnished tongue.



Sixties Fan said:


> Gazans say they want to march en masse to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





			
				EXCERPT • Tuesday said:
			
		

> The implication is that Israel would never kill Gaza civilians who don't pose a threat to life. But they won't say that part out loud.


*(COMMENT)*

The idea of these "Jump on the Bandwagon" Marches typically gain more momentum and become more of a reality as certain stimuli are amplified.

•  The perception of self-administered justice...
•  The belief in the safety in numbers...
•  The inability to make decisions on their own...
•  The ignition by the belief that the march is a "torch of liberation..."
•  The belief that the march will provoke a predicted result (respond to challenge).​
In the case of the suggested "march en masse" → in this case → the impact is to provoke a deadly confrontation and strike the flashpoint where the Arab Palestinians appeal to the international community and "beg by blood" that they accept the Arab Palestinian claim that they are victims of a foreign political system in which the Jewish State recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to humiliate and dehumanize every aspect of the Arab Palestinian culture.  The Arab Palestinians, unable to achieve the demise of the Jewish State through non-violent political means → or → through the threat of violence → and the escalation to violent confrontations *⇒ *now tries to incite anger, fear, grief and sympathy, in support of the Arab Palestinian cause.

The Arab Palestinian strategy is to create a totally unacceptable event that will be of such an emotional magnitude as to force international intervention.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today is the fourth day of the strike by hospital cleaning staff in Gaza who have not been paid their salaries by the Palestinian authority.

There is no solution on the horizon. 

Dr. Ashraf al-Qudra, spokesman for the Ministry of Health, warned this morning of major health setbacks in cancer patients and those with blood diseases because of the lack of hygiene in hospitals.

"The suspension of cleaning companies poses a direct threat to the health of patients and public health in 13 hospitals, 51 primary care centers and 22 other facilities in the Ministry of Health through 13 companies," he said.

Photos of the hospitals with overflowing trash are being published in the Palestinian media.

(full article online)

Why can't Gazans (or Gaza NGOs)  volunteer to clean their hospitals? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In an op-ed in yesterday’s _New York Times, _the longtime PLO negotiator Saeb Erekat declared the U.S. ineligible to broker talks between Israel and the Palestinians given, among other sins, its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Noting Erekat’s two-decade history of prevarication—including his absurd and libelous claims of a “massacre” in Jenin in 2002—*Elliott Abrams *explains why Erekat cannot be taken seriously. The column, writes Abrams, is in fact about something else entirely:

(full article online)

Saeb Erekat Looks for Excuses Not to Negotiate with Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

Of course, there is no action that can be cited as evidence → in the furtherance of the US threat to cut aid and funding, that can actually put teeth marks into the threat.  But it was nice to see the US standup and bark against this constant and incessant noise of the Arab Palestinian.



Sixties Fan said:


> In an op-ed in yesterday’s _New York Times, _the longtime PLO negotiator Saeb Erekat declared the U.S. ineligible to broker talks between Israel and the Palestinians given, among other sins, its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Noting Erekat’s two-decade history of prevarication—including his absurd and libelous claims of a “massacre” in Jenin in 2002—*Elliott Abrams *explains why Erekat cannot be taken seriously. The column, writes Abrams, is in fact about something else entirely:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Saeb Erekat Looks for Excuses Not to Negotiate with Israel


*(COMMENT)*

In April 2003, Dr. Saeb Erekat, became the Head of the PLO Negotiations Affairs Department (NAD).  Since the conclusion of the Annex III work, on the 09 January 2016 the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, Dr Erekat has made no significant progress in restarting any meaningful negotiations.  Essentially, Dr Erekat is a Negotiation Without Portfolio.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Seven attempts by Palestinian youth to attack Israelis were thwarted in the past eight months. This is a photo of a pipe bomb discovered outside that same courthouse in October that was being planted by another "child" of 17:






These stories don't get published in English, because the terror attacks are stopped before they start. But these are "children" who are trying to smuggle pipe bombs on their bodies - no doubt built by Palestinian terror adults who are using the youths as willing human bombs.

(full article online)

Some of those poor Palestinian "children" detained by Israeli police ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

For the past two decades, the anti-Israel rhetoric of Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian leadership has radicalized many Palestinians, to a point where they are no longer willing to accept any form of compromise or peace with Israel.


By accusing the Trump administration of hostility to the Palestinians, the Palestinian leadership has delegitimized the US to a degree where many Palestinians now feel that Americans are legitimate targets for violence and terror attacks.


How, exactly, do these condemnations conform with Abbas's other claims that he seeks to resume peace talks with Israel? The mask on Abbas's face has fallen once again. That mask has, in fact, been falling for many years. Perhaps one day the world will even see that.


(full article online)

Palestinians: Abbas's Lies and Falling Mask


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza’s Hamas rulers use the money and materials they receive to build terrorist tunnels that infiltrate into Israel – a fact which was pointed out two weeks ago by Jason Greenblatt, U.S. President Donald Trump's Special Representative for International Negotiations.

Israel's UN ambassador, Danny Danon, told _AP_ on Wednesday that the responsibility for the situation in Gaza lies with Hamas.

Hamas "has been holding the people of Gaza hostage in pursuit of its own nefarious goals, ignoring their most basic needs. Hundreds of millions of dollars in international aid that should go directly towards humanitarian purposes have been misappropriated towards terror," Danon said.

"Instead of coming to the Security Council with the intent to incite against Israel, [Palestinian Authority] chairman Abbas should instead focus on disarming Hamas and putting an end to its regime of terror," he added.

(full article online)

Israel blamed for 'catastrophe' in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

During an interview on official PA TV in 2013, Mahmoud Abbas was asked about his family history and how they became refugees. In his spontaneous answer documented by Palestinian Media Watch, he did not say that Israel expelled the Arabs of Safed, but, just the opposite. He admitted that the Arab residents of Safed left of their own accord "in a disorderly way." 

The reason Abbas cites for the Arab unprompted exodus is also significant. He admitted that the Arabs of Hebron and Safad committed massacres (pronunciation in Arabic: Madhbaha) against their Jewish neighbors in 1929. The Arabs of Safed, Abbas explained, "were afraid that the Jews would take revenge for the massacre [of Jews] in 1929."










(full article online)

Why is the PA lying to its own children? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

I just saw a report put out last month by AIDA, an umbrella organization of 70 NGOs in the territories, including Oxfam and Amnesty..

The first page of their summary report shows how dishonest NGOs are.

(full article online)

EoZTV: How NGOs lie with statistics  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Yes _(and I agree)_, I've seen many many such reports, seldom are they balanced, and yet → they contain some very useful information.



Sixties Fan said:


> I just saw a report put out last month by AIDA, an umbrella organization of 70 NGOs in the territories, including Oxfam and Amnesty..
> 
> The first page of their summary report shows how dishonest NGOs are.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> EoZTV: How NGOs lie with statistics  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

The Association of International Development Agencies (AIDA) through, what they call the "collective voice" of its members, is a political advocacy group _(by their own admission)_ in the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt).  They are, unquestionably, a pro-Palestinian political group which has the object of creating a Mother Teresa like campaign of pressure on the Regional Communities to:

•  End the Gaza Blockade and open the Gaza Ports to potential weapons suppliers.
•  Open an unencumbered free route between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.​
The "Geneva Initiative" an unconventional _(an out-of-the-box political alternative)_ was basically a MacGyver'dized assembly of the various failed political problem-solving option that took (what was considered) the best of each option for consensus consideration in the Permanent Status of Negotiations.  Excluding the Elephant in the Room (Jerusalem - which both sides declared as its capital) the Israelis would essentially:

Lift the coastal Blockade,
Giver a 100% sovereignty and autonomy to the West Bank and Gaza Strip as one nation,
Establish an unconditional "Route of Safe Passage between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank; and between the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem,
This an attempt to meet the objectives of the Quartet _(end of the conflict)_, meet the Saudi Peace Plan objectives _(everyone saves face with the Israelis at a defensive disadvantage given the new advances in technology)_, and to give the United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and the Russia Federation, a new level of credibility and influence.  It simply did not work.  While there were some that were convinced that the Israelis would never accept it, in the end, it was the Arab Palestinians that rejected the Geneva Initiates.

No question, that it would have been a very hard sale in Israel, Mahmoud Abbas saved the Israelis an agonizing decision making process.  Abbas set the conditions for a permanent agreement:

•  Pre-1967 lines _(undefined but assumed to be the 4 June 67 perimeter)_ with its capital in East Jerusalem,
•  A special resolution to the issue of the refugees _(right of return)_.​
That was pretty much the position taken in 1988 - and - _(although reworded, with the insertion of settlements)_ has not moved since 1988.  We will never know if the Israelis would have agreed (the unknown quantity presented by the alterations made in the final negotiation phases).  And maybe the Arab Palestinians negative role played an important part in the evolution of the set condition in the last two decades since there was any serious consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The opening of the Intifada exhibition, which is organized at the University Call House in Bethlehem, stems from the importance attached by the Yasser Arafat Museum to strengthening the partnership with the Palestinian cultural and educational institutions to achieve integration among them to promote Palestinian culture and national identity."

It's funny that for a people who claim to have a 5000 year old history, they consider so much of their culture to be how they celebrate violence against Israel.

Here's Palestinian culture and national identity, from that photographer.





(full article online)

Palestinian Arab culture: "Intifada" exhibition opens in Bethlehem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Always has been, and always will be about Islam against Judaism. Jews being Dimmies with no rights of sovereignty over Muslims. 1400 years and still going....]


Hamas, Palestinian Factions In Response To Israel's Airstrikes In Syria: 'Any Israeli Attack, On Any Front, Will Be Answered With A Comprehensive War On All Fronts'


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Letting the world know what their Charter is all about. Which is why we are seeing more rockets being fired into Israel ]


Hamas to Trump: No Talks on Recognizing Israel, Only Wiping it Out


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians upset: UAE textbook says their capital is Ramallah ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians upset: UAE textbook says their capital is Ramallah ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Thanks UAE!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Do I have to mention that the Jews in Talmudic times didn't wear anything that looked like this?

 The Palestinian Arabs know that saying that they are against "Jews" contradicts their message of tolerance that they want to tell the world, and themselves. But being against Jews who perform "Talmudic rituals" in "Talmudic clothes" - meaning, any Jew who does anything Jewish -is OK.

(full article online)

Dog-whistle antisemitism in the official Palestinian Authority news agency ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ministerial Committee on Legislation approves bill to withhold terror salaries from PA funds. DM: 'Money will be used to prevent terror.'

(full article online )

Defense Minister: 'End of the theater of the absurd'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas may wish to emulate Hezbollah, but Gaza is no Lebanon


----------



## Sixties Fan

With half the population density of Singapore, and given its geographical location, Gaza over the years could have become a major manufacturing hub for European markets. However, not only was the political incentive for such a development absent but the economic incentive was also lacking because of UNRWA’s ongoing assistance. The same, to a large extent, applies to Lebanon, where the authorities are content to see the Palestinians kept in shantytowns decade after decade rather than envisaging more sophisticated solutions.

(full article online)

Palestinian refugees: Trump reignites lingering debate


----------



## Sixties Fan

Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels


----------



## Sixties Fan

We already knew that the PA hasn't been paying custodial workers for hospitals. And they have been limiting medicines to Gaza. And that while they cut payments for electricity to Gaza last year, they didn't resume it because of an agreement with Hamas but because Israel threatened them.

The story of how the Palestinian Authority has been systematically blocking basic services to Gaza - even after supposed reconciliation with Hamas last year - has not been reported by anyone.

Compare the huge worldwide outcry to the US reducing aid to UNRWA with the complete silence to the Palestinian Authority cutting medical and educational services to the exact same population in Gaza.

(full article online)

The PA siege of Gaza continues, as schools have no budget ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Same ol' ........  ]


Uptick in Arab Terror Attacks on Israelis in Judea & Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels


Terror tunnels. That's a good one.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels. That's a good one.
Click to expand...

Laughs Tinmore who will never have the guts to go to Gaza.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels. That's a good one.
Click to expand...

So sorry, you meant RESISTANT  TUNNELS


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels. That's a good one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So sorry, you meant RESISTANT  TUNNELS
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel has to pimp its terrorist propaganda campaign as much as it can.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels. That's a good one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So sorry, you meant RESISTANT  TUNNELS
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has to pimp its terrorist propaganda campaign as much as it can.
Click to expand...

Considering that Israel did leave all of Gaza for the Palestinians, and that the Palestinians really want ALL of Israel......that it is more than appropriate to call what the terrorist group keeps wasting money on instead of paying salaries, building infrastructure and turn something  out of what they got from 2007 to now.....power.....

than the correct word to use is terror for the group and for the tunnels.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels. That's a good one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So sorry, you meant RESISTANT  TUNNELS
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has to pimp its terrorist propaganda campaign as much as it can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Considering that Israel did leave all of Gaza for the Palestinians, and that the Palestinians really want ALL of Israel......that it is more than appropriate to call what the terrorist group keeps wasting money on instead of paying salaries, building infrastructure and turn something  out of what they got from 2007 to now.....power.....
> 
> than the correct word to use is terror for the group and for the tunnels.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Considering that Israel did leave all of Gaza for the Palestinians,


Now I know you are off the rails.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eight UK Parliamentarians “Shocked by the Sophistication” of Hamas Terror Tunnels
> 
> 
> 
> Terror tunnels. That's a good one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So sorry, you meant RESISTANT  TUNNELS
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has to pimp its terrorist propaganda campaign as much as it can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Considering that Israel did leave all of Gaza for the Palestinians, and that the Palestinians really want ALL of Israel......that it is more than appropriate to call what the terrorist group keeps wasting money on instead of paying salaries, building infrastructure and turn something  out of what they got from 2007 to now.....power.....
> 
> than the correct word to use is terror for the group and for the tunnels.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering that Israel did leave all of Gaza for the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now I know you are off the rails.
Click to expand...

Go rest, oh traveller !!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Taniverdi knew exactly what he wanted. ...From the start the company was much more than a defense consulting company - it had a mission. In a manifesto on the company's website, Taniverdi wrote that "Sadat was established to help the Muslim world reach heights that match its status and realize its destiny among the great powers." At the core of this mission is a struggle against the State of Israel and the Taniverdi manifesto includes a detailed plan "How to conquer Israel in ten days." The program is based on the military and political cooperation of the Islamic countries. "The Islamic countries must give the Palestinians bases in their territory, from which they can demonstrate military power against Israel and produce a sea corridor to Gaza and an air corridor to Ramallah through Islamic geography."

(full article online)

Reports: Erdogan trying to topple Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

.What is so special about the residents of Gaza that everyone expects them to respond to self-inflicted financial difficulties by starting a war with their neighbors? Since Israel’s enemies seem to attack Israel regardless of whether those enemies are prosperous or impoverished, and since impoverished people in other places manage to respond to poverty without resorting to wars of aggression, maybe the _Times _would be better off just scrapping this whole explanatory framework, or at least applying some more skeptical analysis before passing it along to _Times_ readers.

(full article online)

The New York Times Says Gaza Poverty Causes War With Israel. Sorry, That Doesn’t Make Sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> .What is so special about the residents of Gaza that everyone expects them to respond to self-inflicted financial difficulties by starting a war with their neighbors? Since Israel’s enemies seem to attack Israel regardless of whether those enemies are prosperous or impoverished, and since impoverished people in other places manage to respond to poverty without resorting to wars of aggression, maybe the _Times _would be better off just scrapping this whole explanatory framework, or at least applying some more skeptical analysis before passing it along to _Times_ readers.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The New York Times Says Gaza Poverty Causes War With Israel. Sorry, That Doesn’t Make Sense.


----------



## Hollie

Gaza’istan in context.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza Health Crisis: WHO's to Blame? | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Human Rights NGO Employee Praises Terrorists on Social Media


----------



## Sixties Fan

World Health Organization and NGOs Misrepresent State of Gaza Health


----------



## Sixties Fan

In English: Give us a state for free on the borders we demand and don't expect us to compromise on any of our demands, ever. Use the reliably anti-Israel UN to force Israel to do what we demand. No bilateral negotiations with Israel, ever.

Abbas is also expected to say that giving a state to people who openly support terrorism will reduce terrorism. And the UNSC members will nod at his sagacity.

His speech is set for 10 AM EST.

(full article online)

Abbas to address UN Security Council with "new peace plan": "Give us everything we demand for free" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Qatari Prince Tamim bin Hamad Al-Thani sent $9 million worth of medicines, medical supplies, foodstuffs and fuel for the operation of hospital generators in the Gaza Strip. Qatari ambassador Mohammed Al-Emadi held a press conference to announce the grant.

What could be wrong with that?

Apparently, the janitorial staff that is on strike for non payment of their salaries protested Al Emadi's visit and besieged his car.

(full article online)

Fatah appears to oppose Qatar giving aid to Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

And the poster is not about "martyrs" because two of the terrorists were not killed but captured.






113,000 people follow this official Fatah Facebook page. 113,000 people celebrate terror when Fatah celebrates terror.

(full article online)

Fatah continues to glorify terrorists on Facebook - but PalArabs complain they need to incite far more ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Source: Wikipedia. Uploaded by Haldrik

In this setup you had:
 o  Palestina Prima - included Judaea and Samaria, including Edom and extending east into Transjordan. Its capital was was Caesarea.
o  Palestina Secunda - included the valley of Esdraelon, Galilee, northern Transjordan, and the Golan area, Its capital was in Scythopolis (Beth Shean)
o  Palestina Tertia - included the Negev, southern Transjordan, and part of Sinai. Its capital was at Petra

Three Palestines - but no capital in Jerusalem.

After the Muslim invasion and conquest of the area, there were some changes made.

Lewis explains:
 After the Arab conquest in the seventh century, the new masters of the country seem substantially to have retained the existing administrative subdivisions; Palestina Prima and Palestina Secunda remained but with new names and new capitals. The first became Filastin, an obvious Arabic adaptation of the Roman name, and was _administered first from Lydda and later from Ramla_. Palestina Secunda was called Urdunn, that is, Jordan, after the river, and _had its capital at Tiberias_. Jerusalem, which in the earliest Arabic texts is referred to by its Roman name of Aelia, was not a provincial or even a district seat of government[emphasis added].Bottom line, during this period of Muslim rule, there was still no capital in Jerusalem, and no independent country called Palestine either:

 In early medieval Arabic usage, Filastin and Urdunn were subdistricts forming part of the greater geographical entity known as Syria or, to use the Arabic term, the land of Sham.

(full article online)

Let Abbas Know: The Eternal Capital of "Palestine" Isn't Jerusalem, It's Damascus (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This older article explains exactly how Hamas and Fatah go about in their achievement of a Peace Treaty with Israel ]

The diplomacy of fear, 1877 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The artist wrote of the painting: "A group of Jews stand at the gate, their heads thrust slightly forward as they peer into the paradisiacal sun-drenched precinct within, with its gleaming domes and coloured tiles and marbled walls, which once had formed their most sacred national shrine; whereas now, seated before that very portal, sword in hand, the gatekeeper (I nearly called him the Temple watchman) bars their way. Within, Mohammedans dressed in vivid costumes stroll, sit, loll about, and the like. A fine contrast, don't you think?"





 King Hussein, the late father of the current monarch, Abdullah, noticed the painting during a visit to Germany more than two decades ago. He fell in love with it immediately. His emissaries paid a fortune to buy it. Through his deft use of the paintbrush, Bauernfeind unwittingly provided the snapshot image that reflects the manner in which the Hashemite kingdom views itself -- the guardian at the gate and legal custodian of the Muslim holy places in Jerusalem.The piece sold for $533,755 in 1999*.

The rest of the article is very good as well, but this painting encapsulates how Muslims want the Temple Mount to look today: smilingly holding spears to prevent the hated, wretched Jews from visiting while Muslims use the holy place as a park.

(full article online)

Gustav Bauernfeind's painting of the Temple Mount entrance, 1886 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

[The Peace Maker at work....today..... ]

Abbas to UN Security Council: 'International community must hold Mideast peace conference'


----------



## Sixties Fan

State-building vs. Violent Resistance


----------



## Sixties Fan

Satire 

Palestinians Threaten Protests Over Having Protests Ignored – PreOccupied Territory


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> State-building vs. Violent Resistance


Stupid video. Where are The Palestinians going to build a state after Israel steals all their land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Satire
> 
> Palestinians Threaten Protests Over Having Protests Ignored – PreOccupied Territory


Protests are theatre. If the Propaganda media does not report, nobody knows about it. They are just preaching to the quire.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lebanese Journalist: 100 Years After Balfour Declaration, The Arabs Have Failed Where Israel Has Excelled


----------



## Sixties Fan

The only support Abbas has is from the EU and the UN. And even they are more going through the motions than really caring about the Palestinians.

The end of the Washington Post article remains as relevant as ever:
  "I will wait for Hamas to accept international commitments. I will wait for Israel to freeze settlements," he said. "Until then, in the West Bank we have a good reality . . . the people are living a normal life."If the people in the West Bank are living a normal life, then the world doesn't need to care much about a meaningless piece of paper that Abbas would ignore anyway. And his active persecution of Gazans, today, show that the world cares more about Palestinians than their supposed leader does.

The world is waking up to the reality of a leader who refuses to do anything except to say no.


(full article online)

Abbas' words are worthless. Just look at how he acted since 2009. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

"A Martyr who sat on the shoulders of Heaven and smiled"

3 sports tournaments have been named after terrorist Jarrar

"He destabilized Israel's security and terrified it" - Fatah glorified terrorist in numerous Facebook posts

PFLP about terrorist: "Jarrar became a story of heroism and a shining chapter in our national history... his soul will continue to be a beacon"

(full article online)

Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

The Fatah Facebook page proudly showed a photo of Yasir Arafat, Moammar Qaddafi and Mahmoud Abbas, laughing it up together in Libya.

(full article online)

Abbas proud of his association with Qaddafi ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## The Original Tree

*This is simple so why did this thread go nearly 1,000 pages?

The Palestinians are The Israeli Jews.

This is what The Roman Empire
Called Israel (Palestine) and Palestinians is what The Romans called Israeli Jews.

It would be insulting to An Arab to be Called a Jew then or now, so why are they allowing themselves to be called Palestinians?

It’s a hoax, and they are allowing themselves to be called Jews, because they are posing as Imposter Jews who want to make a claim to Jewish Land.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Palestine Student Says He'll Throw Rocks At Jews | Campus Unmasked

(full article online)

Pro-Palestine Student Says He’ll Throw Rocks At Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

The author of an op-ed published on the website of Fatah's Information and Culture Commission in Lebanon recently stated that Shakespeare was accurate in his antisemitic description of the Jews as seen in his character Shylock from the play The Merchant of Venice:

"While Britain's colonialist history is full of people like [former British Foreign Secretary Arthur] Balfour, [Baron] Rothschild, [former British Prime Minister] Tony Blair, and [British Prime Minister] Theresa May, the greatest playwright William Shakespeare correctly described the deceitful, greedy, trickster, extortionist, and lowly character of the Jews in the story The Merchant of Venice in the 16th century."
[Falestinona, website of Fatah's Information and Culture Commission
in Lebanon, Jan. 31, 2018]

In the play, the Jewish character Shylock is a sly moneylender who demands that a debtor repay him with a pound of flesh, before later being defeated and forced to convert to Christianity.

This is not the first time Palestinians have expressed antisemitic views by comparing Shakespeare's fictitious Jewish character Shylock with actual Jews and others.

A columnist in the official PA daily described Israeli PM Netanyahu as a "modern Shylock," and a journalist on official PA TV stated that "Israel is a state that seizes opportunities in the style of Shylock." 

(full article online)

Antisemitic Fatah op-ed:  Shakespeare`s Shylock was an accurate description of the Jews - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Arab protesters hurl eggs at US delegation in Ramallah


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Watch: Arab protesters hurl eggs at US delegation in Ramallah


"The United States absolutely opposes the use of violence or intimidation to express political views," the State Department statement said.​
As it gives billions in military aid to Israel to kill Palestinians.

Our government is such an embarrassment.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Arab protesters hurl eggs at US delegation in Ramallah
> 
> 
> 
> "The United States absolutely opposes the use of violence or intimidation to express political views," the State Department statement said.​
> As it gives billions is military aid to Israel to kill Palestinians.
> 
> Our government is such an embarrassment.
Click to expand...


Still calling for Jihad on the White House?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Arab protesters hurl eggs at US delegation in Ramallah
> 
> 
> 
> "The United States absolutely opposes the use of violence or intimidation to express political views," the State Department statement said.​
> As it gives billions is military aid to Israel to kill Palestinians.
> 
> Our government is such an embarrassment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still calling for Jihad on the White House?
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, another Fucks News slime piece.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Arab protesters hurl eggs at US delegation in Ramallah
> 
> 
> 
> "The United States absolutely opposes the use of violence or intimidation to express political views," the State Department statement said.​
> As it gives billions is military aid to Israel to kill Palestinians.
> 
> Our government is such an embarrassment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still calling for Jihad on the White House?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another Fucks News slime piece.
Click to expand...


Oh I'm surprised You had nothing to say  to protect Your fellow jihadi heroes.

*9 years of daily work at bashing Israel on this forum -and not even an interview on TV - pity*.
Guess UNRWA money is filling that gap.


----------



## rylah

Yasser Arafat

*Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa* (/ˈærəˌfæt, ˈɑːrəˌfɑːt/;[2] Arabic: محمد ياسر عبد الرحمن عبد الرؤوف عرفات‎‎; 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), popularly known as *Yasser Arafat* (Arabic: ياسر عرفات‎ , _Yāsir `Arafāt_) or by his kunya *Abu Ammar* (Arabic: أبو عمار‎ , _'Abū `Ammār_), was a Palestinian political leader. He was Chairmanof the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) from 1969 to 2004 and President of the Palestinian National Authority(PNA) from 1994 to 2004.[3] Ideologically an Arab nationalist, he was a founding member of the Fatah political party, which he led from 1959 until 2004.





*ARAFAT'S DOCTOR: BLOOD HAD HIV*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Arab protesters hurl eggs at US delegation in Ramallah
> 
> 
> 
> "The United States absolutely opposes the use of violence or intimidation to express political views," the State Department statement said.​
> As it gives billions is military aid to Israel to kill Palestinians.
> 
> Our government is such an embarrassment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still calling for Jihad on the White House?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another Fucks News slime piece.
Click to expand...


There is an identifiable “crude quotient” associated with the Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers. 

Why rail over misfits such as Linda Sansour demonstrating that she is just another Islamist fascist?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."


For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.


(full article online)

Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amnesty downplays any Arab responsibility for the Gaza crisis and chooses to only castigate Israel with words like "illegal" and "collective punishment" and "humanitarian crisis" and making Gaza "unlivable." (There is nothing illegal in Israel's enforcing a national border with Gaza, nor with its naval blockade, as even the UN admits. But Amnesty flatly labels Israeli actions to protect its borders "illegal" twice in this document.)

Israel doesn't restrict fuel shipments. The PA does.

Israel doesn't restrict medicines in Gaza. The PA does.

Israel doesn't restrict electricity. The PA does.

Israel doesn't restrict patients getting medical care without specific security reasons. The PA does.

But Amnesty doesn't use any language against the PA that indicates any moral issues with its actions. Only Israel.

(full article online)

.@Amnesty knows that Palestinian infighting is behind Gaza crisis, but blames Israel anyway ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

At the UN Palestinian President Abbas said he wants a peaceful two state solution. But last month he told the Palestinian people the exact opposite: saying of Israel, "This is our country." And what did the media say about this contradiction? Nothing.

HR Visits Palestinian President Abbas at the UN


----------



## Sixties Fan

Human Rights Groups Refused to Help 52 Arab Victims of Palestinian Authority Torture


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch Cartoons for Kids in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."
> 
> 
> For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love


Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Amnesty downplays any Arab responsibility for the Gaza crisis and chooses to only castigate Israel with words like "illegal" and "collective punishment" and "humanitarian crisis" and making Gaza "unlivable." (There is nothing illegal in Israel's enforcing a national border with Gaza, nor with its naval blockade, as even the UN admits. But Amnesty flatly labels Israeli actions to protect its borders "illegal" twice in this document.)
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict fuel shipments. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict medicines in Gaza. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict electricity. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict patients getting medical care without specific security reasons. The PA does.
> 
> But Amnesty doesn't use any language against the PA that indicates any moral issues with its actions. Only Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> .@Amnesty knows that Palestinian infighting is behind Gaza crisis, but blames Israel anyway ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


But nobody mentions why there is "infighting." Abbas, and other political elites, want security coordination back to Gaza. Hamas threw them out of Gaza in 2007. That has been the breakdown in all of the unity deals.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."
> 
> 
> For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love
> 
> 
> 
> Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.
Click to expand...


He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.

He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty downplays any Arab responsibility for the Gaza crisis and chooses to only castigate Israel with words like "illegal" and "collective punishment" and "humanitarian crisis" and making Gaza "unlivable." (There is nothing illegal in Israel's enforcing a national border with Gaza, nor with its naval blockade, as even the UN admits. But Amnesty flatly labels Israeli actions to protect its borders "illegal" twice in this document.)
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict fuel shipments. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict medicines in Gaza. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict electricity. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict patients getting medical care without specific security reasons. The PA does.
> 
> But Amnesty doesn't use any language against the PA that indicates any moral issues with its actions. Only Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> .@Amnesty knows that Palestinian infighting is behind Gaza crisis, but blames Israel anyway ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> But nobody mentions why there is "infighting." Abbas, and other political elites, want security coordination back to Gaza. Hamas threw them out of Gaza in 2007. That has been the breakdown in all of the unity deals.
Click to expand...


Why would anyone think that competing Islamist tribes would ever be willing to relinquish control of their share of UNRWA welfare fraud money to the competing tribe?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."
> 
> 
> For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love
> 
> 
> 
> Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.
> 
> He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.
Click to expand...

He did after spending many unconvicted years in prison with promises of more.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty downplays any Arab responsibility for the Gaza crisis and chooses to only castigate Israel with words like "illegal" and "collective punishment" and "humanitarian crisis" and making Gaza "unlivable." (There is nothing illegal in Israel's enforcing a national border with Gaza, nor with its naval blockade, as even the UN admits. But Amnesty flatly labels Israeli actions to protect its borders "illegal" twice in this document.)
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict fuel shipments. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict medicines in Gaza. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict electricity. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict patients getting medical care without specific security reasons. The PA does.
> 
> But Amnesty doesn't use any language against the PA that indicates any moral issues with its actions. Only Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> .@Amnesty knows that Palestinian infighting is behind Gaza crisis, but blames Israel anyway ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> But nobody mentions why there is "infighting." Abbas, and other political elites, want security coordination back to Gaza. Hamas threw them out of Gaza in 2007. That has been the breakdown in all of the unity deals.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone think that competing Islamist tribes would ever be willing to relinquish control of their share of UNRWA welfare fraud money to the competing tribe?
Click to expand...

Well I see that went completely over your head. Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty downplays any Arab responsibility for the Gaza crisis and chooses to only castigate Israel with words like "illegal" and "collective punishment" and "humanitarian crisis" and making Gaza "unlivable." (There is nothing illegal in Israel's enforcing a national border with Gaza, nor with its naval blockade, as even the UN admits. But Amnesty flatly labels Israeli actions to protect its borders "illegal" twice in this document.)
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict fuel shipments. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict medicines in Gaza. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict electricity. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict patients getting medical care without specific security reasons. The PA does.
> 
> But Amnesty doesn't use any language against the PA that indicates any moral issues with its actions. Only Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> .@Amnesty knows that Palestinian infighting is behind Gaza crisis, but blames Israel anyway ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> But nobody mentions why there is "infighting." Abbas, and other political elites, want security coordination back to Gaza. Hamas threw them out of Gaza in 2007. That has been the breakdown in all of the unity deals.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone think that competing Islamist tribes would ever be willing to relinquish control of their share of UNRWA welfare fraud money to the competing tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I see that went completely over your head. Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...

I see that absent a goofy youtube video to cut and paste, you're left to your usual, goofy slogans to cut and paste.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."
> 
> 
> For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love
> 
> 
> 
> Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.
> 
> He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He did after spending many unconvicted years in prison with promises of more.
Click to expand...


He played the infidel justice system. Another of the angry, infidel loathing misfits you define as heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty downplays any Arab responsibility for the Gaza crisis and chooses to only castigate Israel with words like "illegal" and "collective punishment" and "humanitarian crisis" and making Gaza "unlivable." (There is nothing illegal in Israel's enforcing a national border with Gaza, nor with its naval blockade, as even the UN admits. But Amnesty flatly labels Israeli actions to protect its borders "illegal" twice in this document.)
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict fuel shipments. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict medicines in Gaza. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict electricity. The PA does.
> 
> Israel doesn't restrict patients getting medical care without specific security reasons. The PA does.
> 
> But Amnesty doesn't use any language against the PA that indicates any moral issues with its actions. Only Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> .@Amnesty knows that Palestinian infighting is behind Gaza crisis, but blames Israel anyway ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> But nobody mentions why there is "infighting." Abbas, and other political elites, want security coordination back to Gaza. Hamas threw them out of Gaza in 2007. That has been the breakdown in all of the unity deals.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone think that competing Islamist tribes would ever be willing to relinquish control of their share of UNRWA welfare fraud money to the competing tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I see that went completely over your head. Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see that absent a goofy youtube video to cut and paste, you're left to your usual, goofy slogans to cut and paste.
Click to expand...

Your usual duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."
> 
> 
> For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love
> 
> 
> 
> Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.
> 
> He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He did after spending many unconvicted years in prison with promises of more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He played the infidel justice system. Another of the angry, infidel loathing misfits you define as heroes.
Click to expand...

You missed the point, as usual.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan's ideological love affair with Hamas is obligatory for all Islamists in this part of the world, and they do not tend to forget it. In February, a deported Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) board member, Sami al-Arian, denounced the United States as "our enemy."
> 
> 
> For Turkey's Islamist leaders, Hamas is not a tactical alliance or a geopolitical necessity for the country. It is an age-old feature of political Islam capturing not just minds but hearts.
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Turkey's Longtime Love
> 
> 
> 
> Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.
> 
> He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He did after spending many unconvicted years in prison with promises of more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He played the infidel justice system. Another of the angry, infidel loathing misfits you define as heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point, as usual.
Click to expand...


It's funny when you're reduced to stuttering and mumbling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sami al-Arian spent years in prison and was never convicted of anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.
> 
> He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He did after spending many unconvicted years in prison with promises of more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He played the infidel justice system. Another of the angry, infidel loathing misfits you define as heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny when you're reduced to stuttering and mumbling.
Click to expand...

Do you always miss the point on purpose, or is it just a lack of mental capacity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> He plea bargained a deal and plead guilty.
> 
> He benefited from (exploited), infidel justice as opposed to facing your preferred sharia law.
> 
> 
> 
> He did after spending many unconvicted years in prison with promises of more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He played the infidel justice system. Another of the angry, infidel loathing misfits you define as heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny when you're reduced to stuttering and mumbling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you always miss the point on purpose, or is it just a lack of mental capacity.
Click to expand...


I see you're angry and frustrated. 

Infidel justice put the _had_ in your heroes _gee-had_. 

Your hero can spend his days counting his prayer beads while enjoying the company of his fellow wannabes. 

Can I get an Allahu Akbar?


----------



## Sixties Fan

MK Sharren Haskel tours Samaria with Swedish officials who admit: This is not the picture we are getting in Sweden.

(full article online)

Swedish MP: 'The Palestinians live a good life in Samaria'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over the weekend, the the head of the Qatar National Committee for the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip, Mohammed Al-Emadi, criticized PA president Mahmoud Abbas over his collective punishment of Gazans to pressure Hamas, which includes withholding medicines, fuel and salaries.

Al Emadi told reporters, "I've said to President Abbas before: You are the president of the Palestinian people in full, give something to your children, leave the politics aside and do not give anything to Hamas or anything else; just give something to your people."

(full article online)

Now Qatar and the PA are insulting each other ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Right-wing lawmakers urge justice and security minister to deny entrance to Rasmea Odeh over her role in deadly 1969 bombing

(full article online)

Palestinian ex-terrorist deported from US invited to speak in Amsterdam


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Right-wing lawmakers urge justice and security minister to deny entrance to Rasmea Odeh over her role in deadly 1969 bombing
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian ex-terrorist deported from US invited to speak in Amsterdam


The usual sour grapes from the usual group of whiners.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There was a demonstration organized by the same group with disabled Gazans holding up signs in Arabic and English asking where their rights are for food, water and treatment.

Today, the same group, using bogus statistics, claimed that Israel's "siege" of Gaza has claimed 1000 lives so far. They come up with this number by counting people who have died waiting for PA approval for medical treatment outside Gaza, by counting people who have died in fires started by dangerous kerosene and wood heaters and candles (blaming Israel for lack of power, which is false,) and by counting 350 people who supposedly died while looking for jobs.

Ahmad al-Kurd, in the press conference, is begging for help from the world to help the poor Gazans dying from the "siege."
--------------
Hamas is in worse financial shape lately since it lost its funding from most Gulf countries. This "Charity Coalition" is an extremely cynical use of charity to raise funds to kill Israelis.

(full article online)

Scoop: Palestinian NGO "Save Gaza" "Charity Coalition" is a Hamas terrorist front ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

Darwin Award Candidates of the Day
Palestinian rioters today wheeled a burning tire towards IDF soldiers. It did not go according to plan
ISRAELLYCOOL.COM


----------



## Sixties Fan

Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.


The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.


What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement





Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."


The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
Click to expand...


The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
Click to expand...

No they don't.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they don't.
Click to expand...

Expand on those three words, if you please.
We can find Muslim extremists saying exactly what Hollie just posted.

How are you going to prove that there are no Muslim extremists who want a mini caliphate in the place of Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Expand on those three words, if you please.
> We can find Muslim extremists saying exactly what Hollie just posted.
> 
> How are you going to prove that there are no Muslim extremists who want a mini caliphate in the place of Israel?
Click to expand...

I am talking about main stream not extreme. Extremists in all camps say weird shit.


----------



## fanger

Elder of Ziyon may or may not be a real person.
*Elder of Ziyon*, is an American[1] pro-Israel blog.[2] It is written anonymously
Elder of Ziyon - Wikipedia

Strawman


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Expand on those three words, if you please.
> We can find Muslim extremists saying exactly what Hollie just posted.
> 
> How are you going to prove that there are no Muslim extremists who want a mini caliphate in the place of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am talking about main stream not extreme. Extremists in all camps say weird shit.
Click to expand...

In other words, you answered Hollie's post just for the sake of answering without understanding what Hollie was talking about, or caring.

Hamas is extreme Islam.
The PA, PLO, Fatah is extreme Islam.

How are you going to prove that the education given in Gaza, the PA territories, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc is not one where Israel ceases to exist and a Pan Arab caliphate is set in its place?


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Elder of Ziyon may or may not be a real person.
> *Elder of Ziyon*, is an American[1] pro-Israel blog.[2] It is written anonymously
> Elder of Ziyon - Wikipedia
> 
> Strawman


Fanger, the fool.

And your nonsense turns Elder's articles into lies, how?
Show one article which is not based on facts.


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elder of Ziyon may or may not be a real person.
> *Elder of Ziyon*, is an American[1] pro-Israel blog.[2] It is written anonymously
> Elder of Ziyon - Wikipedia
> 
> Strawman
> 
> 
> 
> Fanger, the fool.
> 
> And your nonsense turns Elder's articles into lies, how?
> Show one article which is not based on facts.
Click to expand...


What is "nonsense" in the fact that you're quoting from an anonymous blog?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Expand on those three words, if you please.
> We can find Muslim extremists saying exactly what Hollie just posted.
> 
> How are you going to prove that there are no Muslim extremists who want a mini caliphate in the place of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am talking about main stream not extreme. Extremists in all camps say weird shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you answered Hollie's post just for the sake of answering without understanding what Hollie was talking about, or caring.
> 
> Hamas is extreme Islam.
> The PA, PLO, Fatah is extreme Islam.
> 
> How are you going to prove that the education given in Gaza, the PA territories, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc is not one where Israel ceases to exist and a Pan Arab caliphate is set in its place?
Click to expand...

Nobody is going to kick out the Jews. That would be unacceptable to almost everyone.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be clear about this: When Palestinians -- and some of their supporters in the international community, including Europe -- say that they want an end to the "occupation," they mean they want to see an end to Israel's existence, full stop. They do not want to throw the Jews out of their homes in the settlements; rather, they want Jews to be expelled from the whole country.
> 
> 
> The conflict, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, did not begin in 1967, when east Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli control. In the eyes of the Palestinians, all Jews are "settlers" and "colonialists." All the land, they argue, stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Muslim-owned land, and no Muslim is entitled to give up any part of it to a non-Muslim. For the Palestinians, accepting Israel's "right to exist" with Jews is seen as an act of treason.
> 
> 
> What is really bothering the Palestinians is that Israel, with Jews, exists, period. The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine." They want Israel removed from the planet. It is time to listen carefully to what the Palestinians are saying -- _in Arabic_ -- to understand that the conflict is not about Jerusalem and not about settlements.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Israel is One Big Settlement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Jerusalem. They want all of "Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they don't.
Click to expand...


Of course they do. They spelled it out so you wouldn't be befuddled. 

They're just pious Moslems who know their koranolgy and sunnah.

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).



The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter

*Article 9:*
Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it . They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Expand on those three words, if you please.
> We can find Muslim extremists saying exactly what Hollie just posted.
> 
> How are you going to prove that there are no Muslim extremists who want a mini caliphate in the place of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am talking about main stream not extreme. Extremists in all camps say weird shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you answered Hollie's post just for the sake of answering without understanding what Hollie was talking about, or caring.
> 
> Hamas is extreme Islam.
> The PA, PLO, Fatah is extreme Islam.
> 
> How are you going to prove that the education given in Gaza, the PA territories, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc is not one where Israel ceases to exist and a Pan Arab caliphate is set in its place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody is going to kick out the Jews.
Click to expand...


Certainly not you, slamming away at your keyboard.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Expand on those three words, if you please.
> We can find Muslim extremists saying exactly what Hollie just posted.
> 
> How are you going to prove that there are no Muslim extremists who want a mini caliphate in the place of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am talking about main stream not extreme. Extremists in all camps say weird shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you answered Hollie's post just for the sake of answering without understanding what Hollie was talking about, or caring.
> 
> Hamas is extreme Islam.
> The PA, PLO, Fatah is extreme Islam.
> 
> How are you going to prove that the education given in Gaza, the PA territories, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc is not one where Israel ceases to exist and a Pan Arab caliphate is set in its place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody is going to kick out the Jews. That would be unacceptable to almost everyone.
Click to expand...

And first of all, the Jews - Israel - are not going to allow them to kick ONE Jew from their homeland again, no matter how hard they will try.

But, you have been the one to say that Israel does not exist, that the Jews stole the land, etc etc.

Are you playing some game today which will not endear us to you anyway, by attempting to say all of these "no one wants to kick the Jews out, it is unacceptable" so on and so forth?

Is that what is in the BDS handbook for today?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Look !!!  Gaza has a very nice hotel......who knew ?  ]

Gaza hotel tiff highlights power struggle between Qatar and Egypt


----------



## Sixties Fan

Syria still thinks that blaming Israel is the way to unify Arabs against their enemies. (Iran still clings to that idea as well.)

But more and more Arabs are publicly acknowledging that this thinking has only contributed to their own problems. Jordan Times has an op-ed that says:

 Today, extremists in the Middle East put on explosive vests and blow themselves up in houses of worship of other sects. To end this tragedy, perhaps we should start thinking of our conflicts not as a scourge inflicted upon us by the omnipotent Imperialist-Zionist conspiracies, but as problems of our making, which should be solved through reason. The author is Western-educated, of course. This kind of actual thinking needs to be put into Arab schools and universities if any real progress is to be made in the Middle East.

(full article online)

Syrians claim that they are fighting "Zionist terrorists" in Eastern Ghouta. Arabs don't buy this any more. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
Click to expand...


I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!



Well, technically, the Arab Palestinians only want part of Palestine.  The part that should have been under the sovereignty of the Jewish People.  I don't see them whining a whole bunch about getting Jordan back.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine? Oh my!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, technically, the Arab Palestinians only want part of Palestine.  The part that should have been under the sovereignty of the Jewish People.  I don't see them whining a whole bunch about getting Jordan back.
Click to expand...

They weren't kicked out of Jordan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
Click to expand...

Where do you get this shit?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They weren't kicked out of Jordan.



They weren't kicked out of Israel, either.  There are millions of them in Israel.

But irrelevant.  You say they want "ALL" of Palestine.  Now you admit they only want the part of Palestine where the Jewish people are.  Uh huh.  We know.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
Click to expand...


Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.


----------



## fanger

I think the word your looking for is "settlements"

*Israeli settlements* are civilian communitieshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#endnote_desc_ inhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,[1][2] built predominantly on lands within the Palestinian territories, which Israel has militarily occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights


Never said that.

Links?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems want their mini-caliphate to be Jew free and kuffar free. That defines the history of Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Less than an hour ago you wrote:  Palestinians want all of Palestine.

Where is the right to Jewish sovereignty in that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Less than an hour ago you wrote:  Palestinians want all of Palestine.
> 
> Where is the right to Jewish sovereignty in that?
Click to expand...

The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.

Can you document that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> I think the word your looking for is "settlements"
> 
> *Israeli settlements* are civilian communities_ inhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,[1][2] built predominantly on lands within the Palestinian territories, which Israel has militarily occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War_


And Arab settlements are communities inhabited by Arabs, be it in Israel or in the PA territories - A and B, where these Arabs settled since the Arab invasion of the 7th Century.

Judea and Samaria were inhabited by Arabs only after the 1948 expulsion of all the Jews from their homes and lands where they have been the indigenous people living there for over 3000 years.

TransJordan has been a Muslim-only Monarchy and then Country since 1925, after the Arabs expelled all the Jews from their homes and lands, where the Jews also used to live for over 3000 years.

Poor, poor Arabs, if they do not get their way THEY are the victims 
and NEVER the victimizers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Less than an hour ago you wrote:  Palestinians want all of Palestine.
> 
> Where is the right to Jewish sovereignty in that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Can you document that?
Click to expand...

Stop repeating your mantra.  Tiresome.
The Jews went back to THEIR country, and legally acquired sovereignty over it.  Unlike the Arab invaders who never built a country at all, before or after the British Mandate.

In your world, the Arabs can "PIG" all they like


----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Less than an hour ago you wrote:  Palestinians want all of Palestine.
> 
> Where is the right to Jewish sovereignty in that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Can you document that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop repeating your mantra.  Tiresome.
> The Jews went back to THEIR country, and legally acquired sovereignty over it.  Unlike the Arab invaders who never built a country at all, before or after the British Mandate.
> 
> In your world, the Arabs can "PIG" all they like
Click to expand...

"legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  They don't necessarily want Palestine to be Jew-free.  They just want the Jewish people to return to dhimmi status.  That is, they want to ensure that Jews are prohibited from certain rights -- rights to self-government, rights to sovereignty, rights to worship in their holy places, rights to self-defense, rights to equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Less than an hour ago you wrote:  Palestinians want all of Palestine.
> 
> Where is the right to Jewish sovereignty in that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Can you document that?
Click to expand...


You're still floating the nonsense that a "country of Pal'istan" existed?

Can you support that?


----------



## fanger

Where was israel created?

The Balfour Declaration was a November 2, 1917 letter from British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Lord Rothschild that made public the British support of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

If Palestine never existed, then israel must be a bastard child


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Where was israel created?
> 
> The Balfour Declaration was a November 2, 1917 letter from British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Lord Rothschild that made public the British support of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
> 
> If Palestine never existed, then israel must be a bastard child



Could you please limit your participation to plagiarizing from Juan Cole?


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was israel created?
> 
> The Balfour Declaration was a November 2, 1917 letter from British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Lord Rothschild that made public the British support of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
> 
> If Palestine never existed, then israel must be a bastard child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please limit your participation to plagiarizing from Juan Cole?
Click to expand...

Why would you want that, droopy drawers?


*Donations*
Thank you to all of my supporters for your generosity and your encouragement of an independent press! Checks to

*Juan Cole
P. O. Box 32509
Los Angeles, CA
90032
Israel/ Palestine | Informed Comment
*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Can you document that?



No.  The Jewish people have the right to sovereignty in their own homeland.  Yes or no?


----------



## fanger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Can you document that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The Jewish people have the right to sovereignty in their own homeland.  Yes or no?
Click to expand...

The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

fanger said:


> Where was israel created?
> 
> The Balfour Declaration was a November 2, 1917 letter from British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Lord Rothschild that made public the British support of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
> 
> If Palestine never existed, then israel must be a bastard child





fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights and post daily from that point of view; from public statements from Fatah and Hamas; from the literal, actual fact that Muslims worldwide blow a hissy fit if a Jew moves his lips in his own holy place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, from people like you who believe the Jewish people should be prohibited from certain rights
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Less than an hour ago you wrote:  Palestinians want all of Palestine.
> 
> Where is the right to Jewish sovereignty in that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews have the right to go to someone else's country, kick them out, and pig the place for themselves.
> 
> Can you document that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop repeating your mantra.  Tiresome.
> The Jews went back to THEIR country, and legally acquired sovereignty over it.  Unlike the Arab invaders who never built a country at all, before or after the British Mandate.
> 
> In your world, the Arabs can "PIG" all they like
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?
Click to expand...



"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104]


----------



## Shusha

fanger said:


> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?



Legally acquired it according to the laws and conventions and treaties of the time.  Just like every other country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legally acquired it according to the laws and conventions and treaties of the time.  Just like every other country.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## fanger

Shusha said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legally acquired it according to the laws and conventions and treaties of the time.  Just like every other country.
Click to expand...

"Legally acquired" stolen goods?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legally acquired it according to the laws and conventions and treaties of the time.  Just like every other country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Speed dial it.

Jewish sovereignty in their homeland.  Yes or no?


----------



## rylah

*The Masarwa clan

The Masarwa clan* (in Arabic : *Masarwa* , in Hebrew transliteration : *Mazra'a* ) is the largest Arab clan in Israel. The name of the clan preserves its Egyptian origin.

*History *
The geographical proximity and the fact that the Land of Israel was for centuries under a regime centered in Egypt led to the almost permanent migration of peasants and Bedouins from Egypt to the Land of Israel. Beginning in the 18th century , this immigration increased, culminating in the days of Ibrahim Pasha, who conquered Palestine in 1831 and ruled it until 1840 . Many of his soldiers had deserted and remained in the country, and general immigration had increased since his rule. During the British Mandate many workers were brought from Egypt and some remained in Israel. The rise in the standard of living of the Arabs in the country also had a great influence on the Egyptian fellahs from the delta region, who suffered from great poverty and overcrowding.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legally acquired it according to the laws and conventions and treaties of the time.  Just like every other country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speed dial it.
> 
> Jewish sovereignty in their homeland.  Yes or no?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> "legally acquired sovereignty over it." from whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legally acquired it according to the laws and conventions and treaties of the time.  Just like every other country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speed dial it.
> 
> Jewish sovereignty in their homeland.  Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


Lol.  Your request for the same link nearly every day is not deflection, and yet me providing detailed answers in response to your request is deflection.  Don't be a fool.

Now, you claimed that "you never said that" concerning a prohibition on Jewish sovereignty.  So clarify, already.  Do you believe in Jewish sovereignty in their homeland or not?  Its not an especially difficult question.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 16-day old strike by hospital janitorial staff that has closed at least one hospital in Gaza has been suspended as the workers are negotiating with the Palestinian Authority to pay them. But if the negotiations don't work out over the next two weeks, they will strike again.

Meanwhile, all government employees, including at schools,went on strike today to protest their own non-payment of salaries and benefits. All government institutions in Gaza are shut down today.

And so are public schools.

Also, UNRWA contract workers. mostly engineers, areprotesting a decision not to renew their contracts. So they are shutting down UNRWA facilities in Gaza as well.

(full article online)

More Gaza news that you won't find elsewhere (because Israel can't be blamed) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tamimi, who was arrested by IDF troopsoperating in Nabi Saleh overnight Sunday, is a relative of Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian Arab teenager who was videotaped harassing and slapping IDF soldiers stationed in Nabi Saleh.

Tamimi's father claimed in the media that his son was hit in the skull by a rubber bullet during clashes that broke out in the village of Nabi Saleh and that, as such, the doctors had to amputate part of his skull to remove the bullet.

"Amazingly, today the boy Mohammed Tamimi himself confessed to the police and the Coordination and Liaison Administration that in December he was injured in the skull while riding his bicycle and as a result of a fall and a bicycle javelin hitting his head," Maj. Gen. Mordechai revealed.

(full article online)

Palestinian lie exposed


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

_Palestinian media are reporting that the PLO faction Fatah in the Jenin area had given an apartment to the family of Ahmad Nassar Jarrar, 22, commander of the Hamas squad that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach on January 9, 2018 near the Havat Gilad junction in the West Bank. Jarrar was killed by Israeli troops a month later, in a February 6, 2018 raid. _

_Fatah representatives noted that the donation of the apartment constituted fulfilment of the national obligation to the family of a martyr who had sacrificed his life for Palestine and whose home the occupation had razed. Jarrar's mother and brother thanked Fatah for its support. _

_The following are translated excerpts from reports on the matter in the Palestinian media, and expressions of esteem for the martyrs by Palestinian Authority (PA) officials. _

Fatah Jenin: This Is The Fulfillment Of A National Obligation Towards Families Of The Martyrs

(full article online)

PLO Fatah Faction Gives Apartment To Family Of Terrorist Who Murdered An Israeli


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA plans to renovate the Cave of the Patriarchs


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> Tamimi, who was arrested by IDF troopsoperating in Nabi Saleh overnight Sunday, is a relative of Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian Arab teenager who was videotaped harassing and slapping IDF soldiers stationed in Nabi Saleh.
> 
> Tamimi's father claimed in the media that his son was hit in the skull by a rubber bullet during clashes that broke out in the village of Nabi Saleh and that, as such, the doctors had to amputate part of his skull to remove the bullet.
> 
> "Amazingly, today the boy Mohammed Tamimi himself confessed to the police and the Coordination and Liaison Administration that in December he was injured in the skull while riding his bicycle and as a result of a fall and a bicycle javelin hitting his head," Maj. Gen. Mordechai revealed.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lie exposed


WOW
THANK YOU!

Finally... I was pointing exactly to this apparently fake BS.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tamimi, who was arrested by IDF troopsoperating in Nabi Saleh overnight Sunday, is a relative of Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian Arab teenager who was videotaped harassing and slapping IDF soldiers stationed in Nabi Saleh.
> 
> Tamimi's father claimed in the media that his son was hit in the skull by a rubber bullet during clashes that broke out in the village of Nabi Saleh and that, as such, the doctors had to amputate part of his skull to remove the bullet.
> 
> "Amazingly, today the boy Mohammed Tamimi himself confessed to the police and the Coordination and Liaison Administration that in December he was injured in the skull while riding his bicycle and as a result of a fall and a bicycle javelin hitting his head," Maj. Gen. Mordechai revealed.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lie exposed
> 
> 
> 
> WOW
> THANK YOU!
> 
> Finally... I was pointing exactly to this apparently fake BS.
Click to expand...


I saw this yesterday, but not entirely sure it was a reliable source.  And then this came up:

_But records from the boy’s visit to the Istishari Hospital in Ramallah, released by the Tamimi family, contradict Mordechai’s claim.

“The above-mentioned patient presented to our hospital on 15/12/2017 immediately after a bullet injury (head trauma) by Israeli soldiers (left maxillary area entrance, no exit wound),” the document begins.
_
From the Times of Israel.


I'm convinced that we have not heard the full story about this incident, whatever it actually was.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yes, saving Palestinian students in Jerusalem some $400 each - costing the Israeli government millions of dollars - is an example of Israeli evil!

By the way, if the Palestinians are so upset over losing their "right" to study their anti-Israel curriculum, they can always set up private after school programs to study their fake history and culture to counteract the evil Zionist narrative.

Teachers and students would certainly volunteer for such a project, and NGOs would happily pay for it.
I wonder why it doesn't happen?

(full article online)

Palestinians blame Israel for saving their students $400 a year ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What Hamas Terror  tunnels  ????   ]

Hamas tunnels

(full article online)

Watch: A look inside Hamas' terror tunnels


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tamimi, who was arrested by IDF troopsoperating in Nabi Saleh overnight Sunday, is a relative of Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian Arab teenager who was videotaped harassing and slapping IDF soldiers stationed in Nabi Saleh.
> 
> Tamimi's father claimed in the media that his son was hit in the skull by a rubber bullet during clashes that broke out in the village of Nabi Saleh and that, as such, the doctors had to amputate part of his skull to remove the bullet.
> 
> "Amazingly, today the boy Mohammed Tamimi himself confessed to the police and the Coordination and Liaison Administration that in December he was injured in the skull while riding his bicycle and as a result of a fall and a bicycle javelin hitting his head," Maj. Gen. Mordechai revealed.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian lie exposed
> 
> 
> 
> WOW
> THANK YOU!
> 
> Finally... I was pointing exactly to this apparently fake BS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw this yesterday, but not entirely sure it was a reliable source.  And then this came up:
> 
> _But records from the boy’s visit to the Istishari Hospital in Ramallah, released by the Tamimi family, contradict Mordechai’s claim.
> 
> “The above-mentioned patient presented to our hospital on 15/12/2017 immediately after a bullet injury (head trauma) by Israeli soldiers (left maxillary area entrance, no exit wound),” the document begins.
> _
> From the Times of Israel.
> 
> 
> I'm convinced that we have not heard the full story about this incident, whatever it actually was.
Click to expand...


Looked at the docs,the report of course states in the 1st line it was a soldier,
 written in English dated 3 days after the incident.

Now some Israelis claim they were there...and still no video or picture?


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the Palestinian Authority is saying that it does not want anyone to cooperate with Israelis (except for anti-Israel activities,) the IDF's COGAT continues to offer services for Palestinian Arabs:

 Last week, 22 Palestinian medical experts underwent 5 days of advanced training under the supervision of the Hadassah Ein Kerem Hospital in Israel. The Palestinian medical experts acquired experience in the field of patient care, explanations regarding hyperbaric medicine and received lectures by senior physicians. This project was a joint initiative of the Training Unit of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Health Coordinator in the Civil Administration, Dalia Bassa.

(full article online)

Uh-oh....the dreaded "normalization" continues under the radar ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Youth who sought Martyrdom and Virgins was "murdered," claims the PA - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas also adhered to an apocalyptic pathos, quoting from the Quran's Surah Al-Isra (The Night Journey), which contains the Prophet Muhammad's vision of the destruction of Israel and Jewish Jerusalem, Islam's impending conquest of the city, and its role as the key to peace and war: "You will work great mischief twice in the land and will become overbearingly arrogant. When the occasion of the first of the two mischiefs came, O Israelites, we raised against you such of our servants who were very mighty and formidable; so they penetrated through all parts of your country. This was a warning that was bound to be fulfilled. … Then, when the time came for the fulfillment of the second warning [to slaughter the Jews], we set other enemies [the Palestinians] on you so that they might disfigure your faces and enter into the temple [the Temple Mount] just as the former enemies had entered and destroyed whatever they could lay their hands on."

The absurdity is self-evident: On one hand, Abbas denies that we are the descendants of the Israelites and on the other, he calls for our destruction in a religious war, specifically within the framework of the Quran's prophecy about the "Israelites."

According to Abbas, Jerusalem is holy only to Islam and Christianity and time is coming to an end for Israel the usurper. The embrace of Christians in his speech was contradictory and manipulative and enough to make one sick, because he also accuses the hostile Westerners, the alleged descendants of the "Crusaders," of planting Israel as a "foreign object" on Islamic soil to do their bidding.

In the meantime, on behalf of the Palestinians – who have built a fortification on the front lines ("ribat") against Israel and are charged with the godly mission of destroying it – Abbas in his speech called upon the Islamic nation to help in the struggle to "liberate Jerusalem, the eternal capital of Palestine, from the hands of the occupier."

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/when-the-agent-of-peace-cries-for-jihad/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why?  Because no one can stop them from giving it]

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement gifts a free apartment to the family of the terrorist who murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach two months ago.

(full article online)

Family of rabbi's murderer gets free apartment


----------



## Sixties Fan

In search of "Palestinian couscous" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Turkish President Erdogan tells a sobbing girl in military uniform that she would be honoured if killed while fighting. Glorifying children’s deaths? Promoting child soldiers? Sick.




"These are our lion cubs.We have brought them up on the love of Jihad and _Shahada_ (Martyrdom-death)"

Why is an obviously moral position on encouraging childhood martyrdom "sick" in Turkey but not worth mentioning in the Palestinian arena?

One reason is that in Turkey there was actually disgust in social media about Erdogan's actions - but you will be hard pressed to find a similar reaction in the Arab world towards Palestinian aspirations to death for Allah.

(full article online)

.@HRW notices that wishing for children to be martyred is sick - but not when Palestinians wish it ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today's failed attack took place at the Rachel Crossing on the northern edge of Bethlehem. The ancient tomb of the Jewish matriarch Rachel used to be, 25 years ago when we last visited it, just an historical site on the road leading from Bethlehem to southern Jerusalem. 

Then after a series of shooting attacks on Jewish worshipers, the simple tomb became a complex surrounded by thick, high walls and with secure stations for the IDF personnel who do guard duty there. It's a major attraction:

"Judaism's third-holiest site, has been the scene of prayer and pilgrimage for more than three thousand years... Rachel, the beloved wife of the third Patriarch, Ya'acov (Jacob), died in childbirth on the way to Hebron returning to his family's home... She was buried on the road to Efrat -- now Bethlehem....
Ya'acov buried Rachel at this spot, rather than a the family burial plot at the Cave [Tomb] of the Patriarchs in Hebron, because he foresaw that his decedents would pass this site during the the forced exile to Babylon in the year 423 BCE [Source: RachelsTomb.org]"

Why the IDF places security personnel there, day after day, was brought home again today:  

Female terrorist arrested near Bethlehem | A female Arab terrorist aged 18, a resident of Bethlehem, arrived Thursday morning at the Rachel Crossing near the city, and threatened to attack policemen and soldiers stationed there. Border Police officers subdued the terrorist and found a knife in her bag. She was arrested and taken for questioning... [*Israel National News*, today]

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 01-Mar-18: Rachel's Tomb: Yet another Pal Arab female teen with a knife


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  The good ol' libel. You it once, you it twice......... ]


A former Hamas official, Mustafa al-Lidawi, accused Jews of using the blood of non-Jews to prepare pastries for Purim on Tuesday, the day before the Jewish holiday.

Former Hamas Official: Jews Use Blood of Non-Jews to Prepare Purim Pastry


----------



## Sixties Fan

The next day, Saturday, my men and I, about 100 of us in total, arrived to find about 400 Palestinian rioters throwing Molotov cocktails, hurling large rocks, attacking us with slingshots, and burning tires. They were documented by something like 40 cameras representing every foreign press outlet you can think of. They were shouting slogans about Muhammad’s army coming to avenge itself on the Jews, and pranced bravely in front of the photographers, knowing full well that the IDF’s strict regulations prevent us from doing much more than trying to disperse the violent mob by shooting canisters of tear gas.

We did the best we could to keep anyone, Israeli and Palestinian, from getting seriously injured. And then, magic: A short while into the demonstration, the media, getting what it came for, decided to leave. As soon as the last cameraman was gone, the very same Palestinian rioters who were, just a moment earlier, so passionate and furious and violent tossed aside their gasoline-soaked rags and their boulders and cheerfully walked away. They weren’t interested in a real confrontation. They weren’t truly mad. They were putting on a show for the press. An hour later, a friend sent me a photograph of myself, just published by the Arab media, holding a tear gas gun and looking menacing.

To be honest, I’m amused by the incident, but also incensed by it. I know this is hardly a new story, but when your own well-being and that of your friends is on the line, it feels just a touch more urgent than usual. I’m very proud to do my duty and serve my country, but I wish members of the media were as serious about doing theirs, taking the time to accurately reflect what’s happening on the ground rather than buy into fake news narratives set up by cynical propagandists.

(full article online )

Watching the Strange Spectacle of Palestinian Made-for-Media Outrage


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [  The good ol' libel. You it once, you it twice......... ]
> 
> 
> A former Hamas official, Mustafa al-Lidawi, accused Jews of using the blood of non-Jews to prepare pastries for Purim on Tuesday, the day before the Jewish holiday.
> 
> Former Hamas Official: Jews Use Blood of Non-Jews to Prepare Purim Pastry



Unbelievable.  Where is the international outrage at such blatant anti-semitism?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The good ol' libel. You it once, you it twice......... ]
> 
> 
> A former Hamas official, Mustafa al-Lidawi, accused Jews of using the blood of non-Jews to prepare pastries for Purim on Tuesday, the day before the Jewish holiday.
> 
> Former Hamas Official: Jews Use Blood of Non-Jews to Prepare Purim Pastry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unbelievable.  Where is the international outrage at such blatant anti-semitism?
Click to expand...

Wanting more of it.....they cannot have enough apparently


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA: Popular Resistance Committee Backgrounder: 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

99 Percent of "Palestine Refugees" Are Fake


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Racism Associated With Palestinian ‘Human-Rights’ Organizations


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> CAMERA: Popular Resistance Committee Backgrounder: 2018


The language of a propaganda organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> CAMERA: Popular Resistance Committee Backgrounder: 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The language of a propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


You’re too modest. Your Islamic terrorist heroes know all about propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> CAMERA: Popular Resistance Committee Backgrounder: 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The language of a propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re too modest. Your Islamic terrorist heroes know all about propaganda.
Click to expand...

The first thing this asshole does is deflect. Just like here.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> CAMERA: Popular Resistance Committee Backgrounder: 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The language of a propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re too modest. Your Islamic terrorist heroes know all about propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The first thing this asshole does is deflect. Just like here.
Click to expand...


Awww. Your tender islamo-sensibilities are hurt.


----------



## Hollie

Pallywierds doing what they do.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Hamas refusing to provide Egypt with details on missing Israelis


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Report: Hamas refusing to provide Egypt with details on missing Israelis


Why should Hamas give up something for nothing?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Report: Hamas refusing to provide Egypt with details on missing Israelis
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Hamas give up something for nothing?
Click to expand...

Hamas.....your heroes.....  so loyal to them...... 72 virgins waiting just for you......


----------



## Mindful

Daniel Friedmann
Yesterday at 19:29 ·


----------



## Sixties Fan

Name brand sweater, nice looking watch, fashionable jeans...even the ski mask looks like it might be a designer version.

He really looks oppressed, doesn't he?

(full article online)

Fashionable stone thrower ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Although Adamir isn't officially part of the UNICEF-led working group called Children Affected by Armed Conflict, which collects information on and reports "grave violations against children in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory," and which theoretically obligates contributors to be neutral and impartial regarding the conflict, it is a partner in UNICEF's information collecting project and therefore receives funding from them. It's hard to imagine anything farther from neutrality or impartiality than Adamir.

According to the Fatah website, Adamir is a branch of the PFLP. We should perhaps clarify that the U.N. does not classify the PFLP as a terrorist organization, the same way it does not class Hamas as one. It might be easier for UNICEF to take in data from Adamir without suspecting that something is off.

The story of Hamori and Adamir as a source of information to UNICEF is just one example of the problematic use of biased sources of information that pretend to be supplying objective data for the biased, blatantly anti-Israel reports that UNICEF has been issuing on children's rights these past few years.

The blacklist to which UNICEF's information collectors are trying to add the IDF is part of an appendix to the Annual Report of the [U.N.] Secretary General on Children and Armed Conflict, which the U.N. head has issued 17 times since 2001. The appendix is designed to call the U.N. Security Council's attention to countries or nongovernmental entities that recruit and use children as soldiers and prompt the U.N. to take steps against them (including sanctions), in accordance with the evidence presented.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/03/02/not-childs-play/


----------



## Sixties Fan

COGAT publishes footage showing Hamas terrorists stealing electricity intended for Gaza residents. 'Hamas doesn't care about residents.'

(full article online)

Watch: Hamas steals electricity from Gaza residents


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Although Adamir isn't officially part of the UNICEF-led working group called Children Affected by Armed Conflict, which collects information on and reports "grave violations against children in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory," and which theoretically obligates contributors to be neutral and impartial regarding the conflict, it is a partner in UNICEF's information collecting project and therefore receives funding from them. It's hard to imagine anything farther from neutrality or impartiality than Adamir.
> 
> According to the Fatah website, Adamir is a branch of the PFLP. We should perhaps clarify that the U.N. does not classify the PFLP as a terrorist organization, the same way it does not class Hamas as one. It might be easier for UNICEF to take in data from Adamir without suspecting that something is off.
> 
> The story of Hamori and Adamir as a source of information to UNICEF is just one example of the problematic use of biased sources of information that pretend to be supplying objective data for the biased, blatantly anti-Israel reports that UNICEF has been issuing on children's rights these past few years.
> 
> The blacklist to which UNICEF's information collectors are trying to add the IDF is part of an appendix to the Annual Report of the [U.N.] Secretary General on Children and Armed Conflict, which the U.N. head has issued 17 times since 2001. The appendix is designed to call the U.N. Security Council's attention to countries or nongovernmental entities that recruit and use children as soldiers and prompt the U.N. to take steps against them (including sanctions), in accordance with the evidence presented.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/03/02/not-childs-play/





Sixties Fan said:


> We should perhaps clarify that the U.N. does not classify the PFLP as a terrorist organization, the same way it does not class Hamas as one.


Cool, at least not everyone is a third grade name caller.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?  So that Palestinians would not have to sneak into Israel to find them?  Where are all of that infrastructure you are supposed to be building in Areas A and B? ]

Israeli officials have estimated that between 50,000 and 60,000 Palestinians work in Israel illegally, often in construction.

(full article online)

Forces nab 40 Palestinians trying to enter Israel without permits


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?  So that Palestinians would not have to sneak into Israel to find them?  Where are all of that infrastructure you are supposed to be building in Areas A and B? ]
> 
> Israeli officials have estimated that between 50,000 and 60,000 Palestinians work in Israel illegally, often in construction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Forces nab 40 Palestinians trying to enter Israel without permits





Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?


That money is not allowed to go to economic infrastructure.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?  So that Palestinians would not have to sneak into Israel to find them?  Where are all of that infrastructure you are supposed to be building in Areas A and B? ]
> 
> Israeli officials have estimated that between 50,000 and 60,000 Palestinians work in Israel illegally, often in construction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Forces nab 40 Palestinians trying to enter Israel without permits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That money is not allowed to go to economic infrastructure.
Click to expand...

What is all of that money for?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?  So that Palestinians would not have to sneak into Israel to find them?  Where are all of that infrastructure you are supposed to be building in Areas A and B? ]
> 
> Israeli officials have estimated that between 50,000 and 60,000 Palestinians work in Israel illegally, often in construction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Forces nab 40 Palestinians trying to enter Israel without permits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That money is not allowed to go to economic infrastructure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is all of that money for?
Click to expand...

About a third of it goes to provide security for Israel. Most of the rest is for sustenance not economic infrastructure. Economic projects have to be approved by Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?  So that Palestinians would not have to sneak into Israel to find them?  Where are all of that infrastructure you are supposed to be building in Areas A and B? ]
> 
> Israeli officials have estimated that between 50,000 and 60,000 Palestinians work in Israel illegally, often in construction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Forces nab 40 Palestinians trying to enter Israel without permits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, where are all the jobs those Billions you get from all over the world were supposed to be created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That money is not allowed to go to economic infrastructure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is all of that money for?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a third of it goes to provide security for Israel. Most of the rest is for sustenance not economic infrastructure. Economic projects have to be approved by Israel.
Click to expand...

The PA pays Israel for security?

What sustenance are you speaking of?

Sources, please.


----------



## Sixties Fan

While glorifying the female terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led the most lethal terror attack against Israel, Abbas' Fatah Movement tried to hide the fact that the terrorists murdered children and adult civilians.

In a video on Facebook, Fatah lied, claiming the terrorists killed "soldier passengers," on the bus they hijacked, when in fact they murdered 12 children and 25 adult civilians, in what is known as the "Coastal Road Massacre."

These are 12 of those "soldier passengers":







(full article online)

Fatah claims 2-year-old victims were soldiers to hide that it murdered children - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas has taken to reiterating his claim on behalf of all Palestinian Arabs that “we are the descendants of the Canaanites that lived in the land 5,000 years ago and continued to live there to this day.”

He goes on to claim there have been contributions Palestinian Arabs have made to civilization - as Canaanites:
 "We are the descendants of the Canaanites who lived in the land of Palestine 5,000 years ago, and continuously remained there to this day. Our great people remains rooted in its land. The Palestinian people built their own cities and homeland, and made contributions to humanity and civilization."Abbas could just as well claim that Palestinian Arabs are descended from Jews as well. Maybe he just has not gotten around to it. Or maybe it's just that Joseph Massad has beaten him to it.

In “History on the Line, ‘No Common Ground’: Joseph Massad and Benny Morris Discuss the Middle East,” Columbia University professor Joseph Massad says, “many can claim easily that the Palestinians of today are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews, and this is the bigger irony.” (p.215)

One wonders why, at a time that Hanan Ashrawi co-opted Jesus as a Palestinian, that more Palestinian Arabs have not thought of this.

(full article online)

Palestinian Canaanites? Why Don't Palestinians Just Trace Themselves Back to the Jews? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## fanger




----------



## Hollie

Just when you think the Death Cult can’t get any more retrograde and depraved, they fool you. 




*Fatah claims 2-year-old victims were soldiers to hide that it murdered children - PMW Bulletins


Fatah claims 2-year-old victims were soldiers*
*to hide that it murdered children* 


*On March 11, 1978, Dalal Mughrabi with other terrorists *
*murdered 12 children and 25 adults. *
*Fatah is glorifying the attack while trying to hide its evil crimes *
*by claiming it murdered soldiers*






By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

While glorifying the female terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led the most lethal terror attack against Israel, Abbas' Fatah Movement tried to hide the fact that the terrorists murdered children and adult civilians.

In a video on Facebook, Fatah lied, claiming the terrorists killed "soldier passengers," on the bus they hijacked, when in fact they murdered 12 children and 25 adult civilians, in what is known as the "Coastal Road Massacre."


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


>


That is cuter than this:





Confronting antisemitism and Israel hatred: Countering the 'shrinking Palestine Maps' scam


But it is just as deceiving.

And the Israel as a dog.......Arabs call Jews DOG.

So, it all comes together for the Arabs.

Lie, cheat, BDS, anything.......but live in peace with the dog Jew as sovereign of it own ancient homeland.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Maybe there is a perfectly reasonable reason for the PLO to set up front companies through the PIF in Aruba, but it doesn't seem quite like the way a real government should act.

(full article online)

Abbas' personal jet plane purchased through an Aruba front company ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Promises, promises.......Oslo Accord = more resistance ]

PA leader says he will not cave to US pressure; Fatah council calls for stepping up 'popular resistance' by boycotting Israeli goods

(full article online)

Amid health scare, Abbas vows not to end his life as a ‘traitor’


----------



## Sixties Fan

There has never been any move to change the Fatah logo to indicate acceptance of Israel's existence, by Abbas or any of this people. 
But J-Street knows that the head of the group whose logo boasts three weapons taking over the Jewish state is the peaceful party. 

(full article online)

J-Street's Missing Chair for Abbas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The West, when funding the PA, pretends that the PLO doesn't exist and makes no decisions on how the money is actually spent. But the PLO controls everything in the PA.

(full article online)

Q: Who is running "Palestine" - the PLO, the PA, or Fatah? A: They are all Abbas and he is a dictator ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

We are not the ones who spilled this blood. When Hamas murderers wail about the fate of Gaza and its residents and point the finger at us, we must remember and remind others: Hamas, just like the Nazis, raised the banner of exterminating Jews for being Jewish. In the refugee camps and the alleys, where poverty rules, Hamas has dedicated years to the culture of death. During Operation Protective Edge in 2014, Hamas turned women and children into bulletproof vests and sent them to their deaths. Now, in the name of the same insane ideology for which they dragged the population of Gaza into recurring conflicts with Israel, Hamas is prioritizing its military build-up and abandoning its people to poverty, disease and hunger.

The same Hamas that just a few years ago placed its fighters inside children's bedrooms, kindergartens, schools, and UNRWA facilities now says it has "concerns" for its population. It set up its rocket launchers in mosques and educational facilities and next to homes. It did so openly, without shame, and announced this was its path, the path of "death for Allah." As Hamas Interior Minister Fathi Hamad described it, "Death for the Palestinian people has become an industry in which women and everyone on this earth excel. The elderly, the jihad warriors, the children excel in this. … We aspire to death as you aspire to life."

It was a lie then, just as it is a lie now. Most people in Gaza aspire to life. They are held hostage by a terrorist organization, which by following its declared path, has brought them to the edge of the abyss.


(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/gaza-held-hostage/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for these murders.

Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video of similar style glorifying terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led the Coastal Road massacre in 1978 in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 12 children and 25 Israeli adult civilians. In that video, Fatah claimed that 2-year-old victims were "soldiers" to hide the fact that it murdered children. 

Last year, Fatah also glorified murderer Thaer Hammad. 

Another Fatah hero of the past was also praised by Abbas' movement recently. Terrorist Muhammad Al-Shamali attempted to carry out a shooting attack and suicide bombing at a supermarket in Efrat on Feb. 22, 2002, but was shot and killed by an Israeli civilian shopping in the store. Fatah termed the attempted murder a "heroic operation," and praised the terrorist as "Martyr":

(full article online)

Fatah: Murder of 10 was “one of the most famous operations” - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians on the street who saw their car immediately threw stones and a firebomb at the vehicle. The students were able to escape from the car before the Palestinians torched it.

A Palestinian resident of the neighborhood rescued them and sheltered them in his apartment thereby saving them from being lynched.

Watch their emotional reunion as two of the Jewish men express heartfelt gratitude to the Palestinian who selflessly acted to save them!

(full article online)

WATCH: A Heartwarming Reunion Between a Palestinian Hero and the Jews He Rescued!


----------



## Sixties Fan

This brief 2-minute interchange last week between Sen. Young, who chaired the session, and Kevin Moley is very informative, substantial and well worth watching.


It shows that a new study of the pervasive radicalization in the UNRWA school curriculum, recently released by the Jerusalem-based research and policy organization _IMPACT-se_ (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education), is beginning to generate a long overdue challenge of UNRWA’s educational work.

(full article online)

Sen. Todd Young: Palestinian Authority-supplied textbooks for UNRWA schools "promote violence and support martyrdom"


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> This brief 2-minute interchange last week between Sen. Young, who chaired the session, and Kevin Moley is very informative, substantial and well worth watching.
> 
> 
> It shows that a new study of the pervasive radicalization in the UNRWA school curriculum, recently released by the Jerusalem-based research and policy organization _IMPACT-se_ (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education), is beginning to generate a long overdue challenge of UNRWA’s educational work.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sen. Todd Young: Palestinian Authority-supplied textbooks for UNRWA schools "promote violence and support martyrdom"




If there is to be any sort of durable peace -- we first need a generation or two which is NOT raised on violence, martyrdom, non-recognition, and the denial of Jewish history and Jewish rights.  Perhaps Israel should write the Arab curriculum and the Arabs should write the Israeli curriculum.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brief 2-minute interchange last week between Sen. Young, who chaired the session, and Kevin Moley is very informative, substantial and well worth watching.
> 
> 
> It shows that a new study of the pervasive radicalization in the UNRWA school curriculum, recently released by the Jerusalem-based research and policy organization _IMPACT-se_ (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education), is beginning to generate a long overdue challenge of UNRWA’s educational work.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sen. Todd Young: Palestinian Authority-supplied textbooks for UNRWA schools "promote violence and support martyrdom"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is to be any sort of durable peace -- we first need a generation or two which is NOT raised on violence, martyrdom, non-recognition, and the denial of Jewish history and Jewish rights.  Perhaps Israel should write the Arab curriculum and the Arabs should write the Israeli curriculum.
Click to expand...

Israel is having some Arab schools in Israel follow the Israeli curriculum.  They were using the PA one before, where all they learned was the same as the children in Gaza, PA, Jordan, Lebanon, etc learn.

I hope in the future all students in Israel are taught the Israeli curriculum, because that is as it should be.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brief 2-minute interchange last week between Sen. Young, who chaired the session, and Kevin Moley is very informative, substantial and well worth watching.
> 
> 
> It shows that a new study of the pervasive radicalization in the UNRWA school curriculum, recently released by the Jerusalem-based research and policy organization _IMPACT-se_ (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education), is beginning to generate a long overdue challenge of UNRWA’s educational work.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sen. Todd Young: Palestinian Authority-supplied textbooks for UNRWA schools "promote violence and support martyrdom"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is to be any sort of durable peace -- we first need a generation or two which is NOT raised on violence, martyrdom, non-recognition, and the denial of Jewish history and Jewish rights.  Perhaps Israel should write the Arab curriculum and the Arabs should write the Israeli curriculum.
Click to expand...


Israelis could use* more* Arabic in their curriculum.
However I'm not sure we need more than that, especially since it's more likely that the only ones to actually study the new curriculum would be the Israeli kids, while Arabs probably simply check off another victory while pushing for even more incitement in schools.
Israeli society is evenly represented between those who support a Palestinian state or opposing it... we even have Islamists and anti-Zionists in our parliament. So our kids grow in an environment where they can hear all sides and express support for Arab aspirations. Our education is education.

The problem starts when incitement to murder is being presented as education by UNRWA.
I couldn't care less what they think about Jews, as long as they don't act on it.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brief 2-minute interchange last week between Sen. Young, who chaired the session, and Kevin Moley is very informative, substantial and well worth watching.
> 
> 
> It shows that a new study of the pervasive radicalization in the UNRWA school curriculum, recently released by the Jerusalem-based research and policy organization _IMPACT-se_ (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education), is beginning to generate a long overdue challenge of UNRWA’s educational work.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sen. Todd Young: Palestinian Authority-supplied textbooks for UNRWA schools "promote violence and support martyrdom"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is to be any sort of durable peace -- we first need a generation or two which is NOT raised on violence, martyrdom, non-recognition, and the denial of Jewish history and Jewish rights.  Perhaps Israel should write the Arab curriculum and the Arabs should write the Israeli curriculum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis could use* more* Arabic in their curriculum.
> However I'm not sure we need more than that, especially since it's more likely that the only ones to actually study the new curriculum would be the Israeli kids, while Arabs probably simply check off another victory while pushing for even more incitement in schools.
> Israeli society is evenly represented between those who support a Palestinian state or opposing it... we even have Islamists and anti-Zionists in our parliament. So our kids grow in an environment where they can hear all sides and express support for Arab aspirations. Our education is education.
> 
> The problem starts when incitement to murder is being presented as education by UNRWA.
> I couldn't care less what they think about Jews, as long as they don't act on it.
Click to expand...


Ya totally had me until the last sentence.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brief 2-minute interchange last week between Sen. Young, who chaired the session, and Kevin Moley is very informative, substantial and well worth watching.
> 
> 
> It shows that a new study of the pervasive radicalization in the UNRWA school curriculum, recently released by the Jerusalem-based research and policy organization _IMPACT-se_ (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education), is beginning to generate a long overdue challenge of UNRWA’s educational work.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Sen. Todd Young: Palestinian Authority-supplied textbooks for UNRWA schools "promote violence and support martyrdom"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is to be any sort of durable peace -- we first need a generation or two which is NOT raised on violence, martyrdom, non-recognition, and the denial of Jewish history and Jewish rights.  Perhaps Israel should write the Arab curriculum and the Arabs should write the Israeli curriculum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis could use* more* Arabic in their curriculum.
> However I'm not sure we need more than that, especially since it's more likely that the only ones to actually study the new curriculum would be the Israeli kids, while Arabs probably simply check off another victory while pushing for even more incitement in schools.
> Israeli society is evenly represented between those who support a Palestinian state or opposing it... we even have Islamists and anti-Zionists in our parliament. So our kids grow in an environment where they can hear all sides and express support for Arab aspirations. Our education is education.
> 
> The problem starts when incitement to murder is being presented as education by UNRWA.
> I couldn't care less what they think about Jews, as long as they don't act on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya totally had me until the last sentence.
Click to expand...


"The things You learn to live with" unfortunately.
I look at our neighbors and how they treat their own, and I remind myself of the understanding we have with Egypt.

If only a dove was not a signal to war in the middle east...


----------



## Sixties Fan

They seem to be wondering why exactly they are there, and not in school.

Similarly, a protest by UNRWA contract engineers on losing their jobs also featured confused kids:





But this is nothing compared to those dragging kids to the Gaza fence, where people can get shot when they get violent. These kids are simply human shields.





(full article online)

Gazans using children as props  - and as human shields ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority increased its payments to terrorists and their families in 2018 by nearly $56 million, Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman Avi Dichter (Likud) said overnight Monday, when a bill to discourage the practice passed a first reading.


Dichter pointed out that President Mahmoud Abbas authorized the 2018 PA budget on Sunday, and that there is a PA law that says 7% of each budget must go to paying terrorists, or to their families, if they’re killed in the act.



The increase “means that the PA will employ more terrorists as PA workers,” Dichter said. “Except that the terrorists who work for the PA have a special quality – they are employed both as dead and living terrorists.

(full article online)

Palestinians increase payments to terrorists to $403 million


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shell gives up on Gaza's offshore gas field - Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists torch Gush Etzion synagogue


----------



## Sixties Fan

The terror group said that it is following the Arab nations who are warming up to Israel, complaining that it "strengthens the occupation and covers its ongoing crimes against the Palestinian people."

"There is a great and new effort of normalization in which the scandal of the practice of normalization does not embarrass the media, in an attempt to penetrate into the awareness of generations to entrench acceptance of the occupation as a fact that can not be overcome."

This is exactly the BDS philosophy. If Israel is accepted as a fact, then BDS loses. Its purpose is to make the world think that Israel will fall, that it is a temporary blip and it makes no sense to work with it because its disappearance is inevitable. This was the way the Arab world looked at Israel as well until the past decade or so.

Ordinary Palestinians, however, may accept Israel's existence, but poll after poll shows that the ones who support a two state solution only want peace as a tactic towards the eventual destruction of Israel. BDS and Hamas are a little more honest.

(full article online)

Hamas ❤️ BDS ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hey Tinmore,  Here is one of your favorite Pallywood producers, director, filmmakers.  Same one you posted a video this morning on the other thread about the Balfour Declaration.

Notice how beautifully EDITED it is.  How Arabs are wearing fake Israeli uniforms or stolen ones (like the ones recently stolen by Arabs from a base).  But if they are real Israeli soldiers, there is no background at all as to why the child was arrested.
Throwing dangerous rocks at civilians or soldiers?

She should have received an Oscar or BAFTA for this and all the other shorts she has made.

Well, she had the privilege of being born in Britain and not have to live there, just make some shorts there.  

It is so HEAVILY acted, instead of her being actually THERE at the time it happened, or maybe it never happened and it is all fictional.  After all, they are actors.

No, Habib, she should not tell how the PA and Hamas teach hatred for Jews and Israel on a DAILY basis and incite them to go kill the Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

HOORAY  FOR   PALLYWOOD  !!!!!  (same "filmmaker" )


----------



## Sixties Fan

From the safety of her home in England, she begs for money for the poor, poor children who are being arrested "for no cause at all" by the "evil Israelis" (my words, but that is the message for those who know nothing about the daily education these children receive and how many have gone to attack Israelis with rocks, knives, screw drivers.......INSTEAD of being at school or with other children reading, playing, doing things children should be doing instead of being used by their governments in Gaza and the PA to make Israel look bad and give up the rest of Israel (all of it ) which the Arabs have not been able to get (post Gaza exit).

Let us mourn for all Arabs in Gaza and the PA, and Lebanon, Egypt, etc, who continue to be deceived by those who have been deceived themselves for the past 100 years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Today has an article showing a protest by Gaza families of "martyrs" claiming that the PLO-run Foundation for the Care of the Families of the Martyrs and the Injured has not paid them anything from the 2014 war.

The PLO has said in the past that its budget for paying families of terrorists is sacrosanct, and there is much anger (and hilarious justifications for the payments by Israel haters) when the US or EU complains about so much of the PLO budget going to paying prisoners and families of "martyrs."

But just as the PLO has been denying medicines, fuel, power and salaries to Gazans, it has also apparently been denying even this.

(full article online)

The PLO is not paying Gaza "martyrs"? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians: The Arabs Do Not Care about Us


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Changing Laws on ‘Honor Killings’ — Jewish Journal


----------



## Sixties Fan

Women in Gaza held a protest for International Women's Day.

Were the demanding equal rights with men? An end to honor killings? Perhaps a protest against forced headcoverings in schools?

No - this protest, organized by Hamas, was against Trump recognizing that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel.

The head of the Hamas women's movement, Raja al-Halabi, explained that the Palestinian women celebrate International Women's Day differently from the women of the world. Palestinian women have one form of protest, she explained, "dyed with the blood of the martyrs and the wives of the women and children."

In other words, if you are planning to hold a protest in Gaza, you better make sure that you are protesting something that the rulers allow you to protest. And protesting Israel and the US are always safe bets.

(full article online)

Palestinians trying to hijack International Women's Day ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslim Arab reveals what he really thinks about Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

A recent article in The Atlantic about “The Tragedy of Mahmoud Abbas” noted: “In him, the world saw a reformist, a leader who could get the Palestinians to the table and possibly clear the hurdle of the two-state solution.”

This was the mythical Abbas who never really existed. But this myth allowed the Palestinian Authority president to become the world’s favorite Palestinian.

Only now, according to the same article, has the world woken up to the realization that Abas has “morphed into a bureaucratic tyrant at home, hostile to America and downright incendiary towards Israel.”

The truth is that Abbas was never a moderate, never recognized as a leader of the Palestinians and never willing or able to reach a peace agreement with Israel.

(full article online)

The Abbas Mythology


----------



## Sixties Fan

This medieval blood libel was brought to readers courtesy of MNA’s generous Western sponsors. On its website, the news agency gives special thanks to two countries in particular: *“MNA was launched with generous funding from the Danish Representative Office to the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the Netherlands Representative Office to the PA”. *

One cannot help but wonder, whether this was the kind of “news” Denmark and the Netherlands had in mind, when they helped launch the agency in 2005?



According to NGO monitor, MNA is funded (last available figures are from 2014) by Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden and the United States, among others. In 2016, Ma’an Television Network received €427,200 (roughly $500,000) from the European Union for “Leveraging Media Initiatives to Promote Participatory Engagement in the Peace Process.” Ma’an Network received £730,000  (roughly $1 million) in 2015-2017 from the United Kingdom as part of a “multimedia project to raise awareness of, and seek to prevent, violence against women and girls.”

Western European nations, claiming to be against all forms of racism and supremacism, lavishly fund Muslim Jew-hatred. It makes for a special kind of irony, when that lavish funding helps promote old European blood libels.

Christians imported the old European blood libels into the Middle East, but Muslims adopted them with rather fervent enthusiasm, as evidenced in present times by not only Al-Lidawi’s article, but also the behavior of Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas himself. In June 2016, Abbas gave a speech to the Parliament of the European Union in Brussels, where he falsely claimed that, “Certain rabbis in Israel have said very clearly to their government that our water should be poisoned in order to have Palestinians killed.”

The members of the European Parliament thanked Abbas for this new take on an old European tradition by giving him a standing ovation.

It is not, however, as if Muslims lack their own anti-Semitic sources and need to import new ones. The Koran is brimming with verses portraying the Jews in the most hateful and violent ways.

The Koranic passages 5:60 and 7:166, for instance, proclaim that the Jews are cursed and that Allah transformed them into apes and pigs (hence the frequent comparisonsof Jews to apes and pigs in Palestinian Authority news, children’s television, official statements etc.).

(full article online)

Giving Islamic Racism a Pass


----------



## Hollie

I suppose it's naive to think that the madness delineated below occurs only in the most retrograde Islamist societies. One has visions of remote, islamic controlled tribal areas where women are treated like chattel with no rights or dignity. It seems that the PA is little removed from some Taliban style tribal elder council shoveling out sharia law that is unchanged from practices originating in the 7th century.
*


Demands to change PA law allowing rapists to marry victims - PMW Bulletins

Demands to change PA law allowing rapists
 to marry victims*

*On International Women's Day, call by Women MPs from Arab Countries to Mahmoud Abbas to repeal law which enables rapists to avoid punishment by agreeing to marry the rape victim - because the law "turns the woman into a victim twice"*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Palestinian Authority law enables a rapist to marry his victim instead of receiving punishment, according to clause 308 of the Jordanian Penal Code, which is still used by the PA, although it has already been repealed  in Jordan.

On occasion of International Women's Day, which falls today, the Coalition of Women MPs from Arab Countries to Combat Violence Against Women has expressed hope that PA Chairman Abbas will approve an amendment of the law and repeal the clause, which "turns the woman into a victim twice":

"Secretary of the Women MPs from Arab Countries Sahr Qawasmi said... that the coalition... hopes that clause 308, which allows a rapist to marry the woman who is raped, will be repealed. She expressed hope that [PA] President [Mahmoud Abbas] will approve [amending] this law on March 8 [2018], because this clause means that the man who rapes evades punishment, and because it turns the woman into a victim twice."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 5, 2


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Sure!!!  Right of Return to Israel !!!!  But no need for the right to turn Gaza into a viable, livable State, where the money is not spent on tunnels and put into the leaders ' pockets.   It is sad when so many Arabs still fall for the "Right of Return" routine, which does not exist for any other people, including themselves. And it end on the day they started the war against Israel, 70 years ago, how nice  !!!! They think of everything, don't they?  Millions of refugees?  No, only about 20,000 left.  Get a life !!  ]

Gaza families are to set up hundreds of tents -- possibly thousands - for the protests running from March 30 to May 15, organizers said.

Protesters plan to call for the granting of a right of return for millions of so-called “Palestinian refugees” across the Middle East.

Organizers said the families could stay in the tents for prolonged periods, with youth and community activities planned.

The demonstration has the backing of all political factions in the Gaza Strip, including the terrorist group Hamas, which rules the Strip.

Israeli media said the army viewed the event as a potential security threat, while authorities were concerned over how to respond if violence erupted with women and children among the protesters.

The protests will coincide with Israel Independence Day – a date mourned by Palestinian Arab opponents of the Jewish state as the “Nakba”, or day of “Disaster”.

Hamas has denied it initiated the tent protest.

(full article online)


IDF concerned as Gazans establish tent cities on Israeli border


----------



## fanger

I agree with The coalition of Women MPs from Arab countries, that law should be repealed
And you should also change the law in America that allows men to marry 10 year olds

*More than 200,000 children married in US over the last 15 years*
Girls as young as 10 were among the minors who wedded under legal loopholes
13,000 children a year are married in America

“An exclusion without exceptions would violate the cultures and traditions of some communities in New Jersey based on religious traditions,” Mr Christie said in a statement.

New Jersey governor refuses to ban child marriage because 'it would conflict with religious customs'  It doesn't say which "religion" in New Jersey


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> I agree with The coalition of Women MPs from Arab countries, that law should be repealed
> And you should also change the law in America that allows men to marry 10 year olds
> 
> *More than 200,000 children married in US over the last 15 years*
> Girls as young as 10 were among the minors who wedded under legal loopholes
> 13,000 children a year are married in America
> 
> “An exclusion without exceptions would violate the cultures and traditions of some communities in New Jersey based on religious traditions,” Mr Christie said in a statement.
> 
> New Jersey governor refuses to ban child marriage because 'it would conflict with religious customs'  It doesn't say which "religion" in New Jersey


One needs to not forget all the other countries where it is also still happening.

Child marriage around the world - Girls Not Brides


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> I agree with The coalition of Women MPs from Arab countries, that law should be repealed
> And you should also change the law in America that allows men to marry 10 year olds
> 
> *More than 200,000 children married in US over the last 15 years*
> Girls as young as 10 were among the minors who wedded under legal loopholes
> 13,000 children a year are married in America
> 
> “An exclusion without exceptions would violate the cultures and traditions of some communities in New Jersey based on religious traditions,” Mr Christie said in a statement.
> 
> New Jersey governor refuses to ban child marriage because 'it would conflict with religious customs'  It doesn't say which "religion" in New Jersey



I guess in your frantic haste, you missed the notation about loopholes in the law.

Born on third base and thought you got a home run?

What does Juan Cole have on his website you can plagiarize?


----------



## fanger

loopholes in the New Jersey State law, say who are those religious "loopholes" for  


Ask him, here's the link

*Donations*
Thank you to all of my supporters for your generosity and your encouragement of an independent press! Checks to

*Juan Cole
P. O. Box 32509
Los Angeles, CA
90032
About
*


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Ask him, here's the link
> 
> *Donations*
> Thank you to all of my supporters for your generosity and your encouragement of an independent press! Checks to
> 
> *Juan Cole
> P. O. Box 32509
> Los Angeles, CA
> 90032
> About*



How much did you donate as compensation for the material you plagiarized?


----------



## fanger

both


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> loopholes in the New Jersey State law, say who are those religious "loopholes" for
> 
> 
> Ask him, here's the link
> 
> *Donations*
> Thank you to all of my supporters for your generosity and your encouragement of an independent press! Checks to
> 
> *Juan Cole
> P. O. Box 32509
> Los Angeles, CA
> 90032
> About*


Why did you leave Muslim and Christian underage marriages in the US out of it?

Uhmmmmm


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, Palestinian Media Watch and members of three families whose loved ones were murdered following Jibril Rajoub's incitement to murder in 2015 and 2016, submitted a formal complaint to the Israeli police against Rajoub. 

PMW is taking this unusual step because we believe this is an urgent time for the Israeli government to take action. Neither Rajoub nor the other Palestinian leaders who incited hate and terror which drove the 2015 - 2016 terror wave in which 44 people were murdered, have been arrested or imprisoned for their crimes. As a result, many of the same PA and Fatah leaders are now inciting hate and violence in response to both the original decision of President of the United States to move the American embassy to Jerusalem and the subsequent American announcement that it is opening on May 14. [See numerous examples reported by PMW.] 

There is a real danger that Israel's inaction against Palestinian leaders' previous incitement to murder will lead them to conclude that they can again incite murder with impunity, this time over the Jerusalem Embassy opening on May 14, 2018, which could lead to another terror wave. 

Palestinian leaders must understand that if they incite violence, terror and murder they will be arrested and imprisoned. This step is fundamental to ensure the deterrence that could very well save lives.

Why PMW submitted complaint to police against Palestinian leader Jibril Rajoub - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Arab League - leaders who drove the Arab people into total disaster, again and again ]

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/03/08/arab-fms-insist-on-jerusalem-as-future-palestinian-capital/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown


That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
Click to expand...

It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.

_“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_

Any questions?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.
> 
> _“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_
> 
> Any questions?
Click to expand...

Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.

Of course this leads to another never answered question. Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get to rule the West Bank in 2007?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.
> 
> _“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.
> 
> Of course this leads to another never answered question. Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get to rule the West Bank in 2007?
Click to expand...

This all leads in circles to your usual conspiracy theory.

Otherwise, I do find it curious that you have designated yourself as the Head Spokesbeard in Charge of what Arabs-Moslems like / don't like.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.
> 
> _“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.
> 
> Of course this leads to another never answered question. Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get to rule the West Bank in 2007?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all leads in circles to your usual conspiracy theory.
> 
> Otherwise, I do find it curious that you have designated yourself as the Head Spokesbeard in Charge of what Arabs-Moslems like / don't like.
Click to expand...

Arabs - Muslims is your thing no mine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.
> 
> _“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.
> 
> Of course this leads to another never answered question. Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get to rule the West Bank in 2007?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all leads in circles to your usual conspiracy theory.
> 
> Otherwise, I do find it curious that you have designated yourself as the Head Spokesbeard in Charge of what Arabs-Moslems like / don't like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs - Muslims is your thing no mine.
Click to expand...


You’re not paying attention or you forgot what you wrote. 

“Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.”

As I noted, I found no indication that you were the designated, (universally or otherwise), spokes-turban for Arabs-Moslems, Hamas, Fatah or any of the various Islamic terrorist franchises in either of the mini-caliphates. 

Thanks for your consideration.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.
> 
> _“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.
> 
> Of course this leads to another never answered question. Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get to rule the West Bank in 2007?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all leads in circles to your usual conspiracy theory.
> 
> Otherwise, I do find it curious that you have designated yourself as the Head Spokesbeard in Charge of what Arabs-Moslems like / don't like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs - Muslims is your thing no mine.
Click to expand...

Of course 9 years of daily pro- Islamist rhetorics - prove You're a pink bunny.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad denounces Palestinian Authority crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> That is the problem with the security coordination with Israel. Islamic Jihad, and others like Hamas and the PFLP, are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine. Israel calls them illegal organizations. Security coordination requires the PA to violate their constitution and the rights of the Palestinians. Security coordination is universally hated in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a bit of a farce to suggest that the dictators running the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza'istan and fatah'istan are encumbered by a so-called constitution of law.
> 
> _“God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”_
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.
Click to expand...


“Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government”.

Thank you Mullah Tinmore for another “...... because I say so”,  fatwa.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

As you all know, there are the Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) and Specially Designated Global Terrorists (SDGTs).  HAMAS, as an organization and Ismail Haniyeh, Chief of the Political Bureau have recently been added publically to the §219 List.  It was a designated an FTO well before the elections in 2005 and 2006.



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas was actually elected and they cannot use their party plank in the government”.
> 
> Thank you Mullah Tinmore for another “...... because I say so”,  fatwa.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

We could argue the impact of the elections all day long.  The fact of the matter is that HAMAS was not able to assume a position of authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a unified political entity.  And it has been over a decade since the Arab Palestinians were able to swap government control peacefully.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> HAMAS, as an organization and Ismail Haniyeh, Chief of the Political Bureau have recently been added publically to the §219 List. It was a designated an FTO well before the elections in 2005 and 2006.


So, the Palestinians should allow foreign name callers to tell them who to vote for?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> We could argue the impact of the elections all day long. The fact of the matter is that HAMAS was not able to assume a position of authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a unified political entity. And it has been over a decade since the Arab Palestinians were able to swap government control peacefully.


Of course that ducks the never answered question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> We could argue the impact of the elections all day long. The fact of the matter is that HAMAS was not able to assume a position of authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a unified political entity. And it has been over a decade since the Arab Palestinians were able to swap government control peacefully.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course that ducks the never answered question.
Click to expand...


You refuse to address your always cut and pasted conspiracy theory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS, as an organization and Ismail Haniyeh, Chief of the Political Bureau have recently been added publically to the §219 List. It was a designated an FTO well before the elections in 2005 and 2006.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians should allow foreign name callers to tell them who to vote for?
Click to expand...

The Arabs-Moslems have no real concern for voting. Arab-Moslem dictators are not allowing such anti-Islamic mechanisms.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

there are positive consequence and adverse consequences.  The Arab Palestinian must be free to make their own decisions; and recognize _(and embrace)_ the consequences of their actions.

You should think twice as using this as any kind of logic shield or defense.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS, as an organization and Ismail Haniyeh, Chief of the Political Bureau have recently been added publically to the §219 List. It was a designated an FTO well before the elections in 2005 and 2006.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Palestinians should allow foreign name callers to tell them who to vote for?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Just, as you imply, the US _(foreigners in general)_ should not force a specific decision upon the Arab Palestinians.  They are allowed to use their own moral judgment, integrity and character to select their leadership and representation.  BUT, their freedom in this way, DOES NOT impair the US _(foreigners in general)_ from observing, recognizing and acting in accordance with the reality.  The right of the Arab Palestinian in the freedom of expression is articulated in Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  (CCPR) and that any restrictions should only be applied under the law S/RES/1624 (2005) States must cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with their obligations under international law.  

WHEN the Arab Palestinians OPENLY SUPPORT Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters and allow safe haven from international justice, or otherwise support any person facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or commission of terrorist acts or provides safe havens, THEN, the Arab Palestinians must be willing to accept the consequences.

There is no law that demands the US to comply with the wishes of the Arab Palestinians that openly 
persist in the support the acts of international terrorism in all its forms _(A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism)_.  The Arab Palestinians that are directly or indirectly involved, which endanger or take innocent lives, have a deleterious effect on international relations and may jeopardize the territorial integrity _(including the security of the Jewish State)_ are as much a danger to Regional Stability as any other criminal act.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> There is no law that demands the US to comply with the wishes of the Arab Palestinians that openly
> persist in the support the acts of international terrorism in all its forms _(A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism)_.


Such as?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Such as?



Such as What?  What is your question?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such as What?  What is your question?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are trying to link Hamas to international terrorism without posting anything to back up your assertion.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such as What?  What is your question?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to link Hamas to international terrorism without posting anything to back up your assertion.
Click to expand...


Are you suggesting Hamas is just an ordinary, regional islamic terrorist franchise?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Opinion | Does Hamas have the courage to admit failure?


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> I suppose it's naive to think that the madness delineated below occurs only in the most retrograde Islamist societies. One has visions of remote, islamic controlled tribal areas where women are treated like chattel with no rights or dignity. It seems that the PA is little removed from some Taliban style tribal elder council shoveling out sharia law that is unchanged from practices originating in the 7th century.
> *
> 
> 
> Demands to change PA law allowing rapists to marry victims - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Demands to change PA law allowing rapists
> to marry victims*
> 
> *On International Women's Day, call by Women MPs from Arab Countries to Mahmoud Abbas to repeal law which enables rapists to avoid punishment by agreeing to marry the rape victim - because the law "turns the woman into a victim twice"*
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Palestinian Authority law enables a rapist to marry his victim instead of receiving punishment, according to clause 308 of the Jordanian Penal Code, which is still used by the PA, although it has already been repealed  in Jordan.
> 
> On occasion of International Women's Day, which falls today, the Coalition of Women MPs from Arab Countries to Combat Violence Against Women has expressed hope that PA Chairman Abbas will approve an amendment of the law and repeal the clause, which "turns the woman into a victim twice":
> 
> "Secretary of the Women MPs from Arab Countries Sahr Qawasmi said... that the coalition... hopes that clause 308, which allows a rapist to marry the woman who is raped, will be repealed. She expressed hope that [PA] President [Mahmoud Abbas] will approve [amending] this law on March 8 [2018], because this clause means that the man who rapes evades punishment, and because it turns the woman into a victim twice."
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 5, 2



A woman who was 11 when she was forced to marry her rapist has worked for six years to ban child marriages in Florida. On Friday, she was hailed as a hero after the Legislature passed a bill prohibiting marriage for anyone under 17.
Johnson was 9 when she was raped by a church deacon, 10 when she gave birth and 11 when she married the man. Johnson said her church pressured her mother to consent to the marriage and a judge approved it.


Florida passes bill preventing marriage of anyone under 17


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it's naive to think that the madness delineated below occurs only in the most retrograde Islamist societies. One has visions of remote, islamic controlled tribal areas where women are treated like chattel with no rights or dignity. It seems that the PA is little removed from some Taliban style tribal elder council shoveling out sharia law that is unchanged from practices originating in the 7th century.
> *
> 
> 
> Demands to change PA law allowing rapists to marry victims - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Demands to change PA law allowing rapists
> to marry victims*
> 
> *On International Women's Day, call by Women MPs from Arab Countries to Mahmoud Abbas to repeal law which enables rapists to avoid punishment by agreeing to marry the rape victim - because the law "turns the woman into a victim twice"*
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Palestinian Authority law enables a rapist to marry his victim instead of receiving punishment, according to clause 308 of the Jordanian Penal Code, which is still used by the PA, although it has already been repealed  in Jordan.
> 
> On occasion of International Women's Day, which falls today, the Coalition of Women MPs from Arab Countries to Combat Violence Against Women has expressed hope that PA Chairman Abbas will approve an amendment of the law and repeal the clause, which "turns the woman into a victim twice":
> 
> "Secretary of the Women MPs from Arab Countries Sahr Qawasmi said... that the coalition... hopes that clause 308, which allows a rapist to marry the woman who is raped, will be repealed. She expressed hope that [PA] President [Mahmoud Abbas] will approve [amending] this law on March 8 [2018], because this clause means that the man who rapes evades punishment, and because it turns the woman into a victim twice."
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 5, 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman who was 11 when she was forced to marry her rapist has worked for six years to ban child marriages in Florida. On Friday, she was hailed as a hero after the Legislature passed a bill prohibiting marriage for anyone under 17.
> Johnson was 9 when she was raped by a church deacon, 10 when she gave birth and 11 when she married the man. Johnson said her church pressured her mother to consent to the marriage and a judge approved it.
> 
> 
> Florida passes bill preventing marriage of anyone under 17
Click to expand...


Thanks for showing that we here in the Great Satan™️ will correct aberrations in the law and make corrections to remedy an injustice.

What a shame that you Islamics, still unable to drag yourselves out of the 7th century, still idolize an Arab warlord who preyed upon children. Here’s some news for you Habib, a 7th century Arab warlord is not any model for humanity.

Obviously, your frantic cutting and pasting has nothing to do with the thread, but hey, your days are spent trolling the bowels of the Internet because you have nothing else to do.


----------



## fanger

From which century comes your "rule book" the TaNaKh?

According to the Talmud, much of the Tanakh was compiled by the men of the Great Assembly (_Anshei K'nesset HaGedolah_), a task completed in 450 BCE, and it has remained unchanged ever since.
Tanakh - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

Girls Not Brides: Ending Child Marriage in Gaza | UNRWA

“Imagine a 15-year-old child married and having babies; it’s a child raising children,” said Hayat Mahmoud, a lawyer, as she facilitated a two-hour session on child marriage at the Al-Daraj Women’s Programme Centre. The session is one of 14 awareness-raising sessions that were held from 9 to 12 July across the Gaza Strip as part of ‘Girls Not Brides: End Child Marriage’, an initiative implemented by the UNRWA relief and social services programme in cooperation with Women’s Programme Centres (WPCs) across Gaza to highlight the psychological and social impact of child marriage, raise community awareness, and influence the community’s decision-makers.

A 15- year old bride? 

Well gee whiz. That’s a child a bit past her prime in Gaza'istan. 

_The way of the prophet_™️ was to get them young, while they’re still playing with dolls.


----------



## rylah

fanger said:


> From which century comes your "rule book" the TaNaKh?
> 
> According to the Talmud, much of the Tanakh was compiled by the men of the Great Assembly (_Anshei K'nesset HaGedolah_), a task completed in 450 BCE, and it has remained unchanged ever since.
> Tanakh - Wikipedia



Yep around the same time that most pro-Palestinian "experts on history" claim Jews were gone from their land.


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> From which century comes your "rule book" the TaNaKh?
> 
> According to the Talmud, much of the Tanakh was compiled by the men of the Great Assembly (_Anshei K'nesset HaGedolah_), a task completed in 450 BCE, and it has remained unchanged ever since.
> Tanakh - Wikipedia



With your spamming from obscure blogs depicted, you’re now resorting to spamming from wiki.


----------



## rylah

(Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)

Abbas tribe

The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> Girls Not Brides: Ending Child Marriage in Gaza | UNRWA
> 
> “Imagine a 15-year-old child married and having babies; it’s a child raising children,” said Hayat Mahmoud, a lawyer, as she facilitated a two-hour session on child marriage at the Al-Daraj Women’s Programme Centre. The session is one of 14 awareness-raising sessions that were held from 9 to 12 July across the Gaza Strip as part of ‘Girls Not Brides: End Child Marriage’, an initiative implemented by the UNRWA relief and social services programme in cooperation with Women’s Programme Centres (WPCs) across Gaza to highlight the psychological and social impact of child marriage, raise community awareness, and influence the community’s decision-makers.
> 
> A 15- year old bride?
> 
> Well gee whiz. That’s a child a bit past her prime in Gaza'istan.
> 
> _The way of the prophet_™️ was to get them young, while they’re still playing with dolls.


In the Gaza Strip, which follows Egyptian codes, marriage age for girls is legally set at 17 and 18 for boys.
FAFO Report 151


----------



## fanger

rylah said:


> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.


This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.

The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]

The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,  
now you know


----------



## Roudy

fanger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
Click to expand...

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.


----------



## rylah

fanger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
Click to expand...


And yet  there's no local language in which the word "Palestinian" doesn't mean _'an invader'. _

Moreover, even the contested desert in Judea Samaria,
is still called "*Sahara Yahudin*" ( صحراء يهودا) in Arabic...
Need translation?


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/03/09/isis-takes-aim-at-temple-mount/


----------



## Sixties Fan

What Is a ‘Refugee’? The Jews from Morocco vs. the Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Palestinian ‘Refugee’-Turned-Israeli Calls for Social Revolution in Middle East


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestine" Becomes A Country Without Much Effort At All - Israel Diaries


----------



## theliq

Sixties Fan said:


> "Palestine" Becomes A Country Without Much Effort At All - Israel Diaries


Rasklatt,Bloodklatt


----------



## theliq

Roudy said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
> 
> “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
> “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
> “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
Click to expand...

Roudy,when O when are you going to look beyond the end of your nose?????take one step beyond,you'd be amazed what life has for you,open BOTH EYES now,friend...steve


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
> 
> “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
> “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
> “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roudy,when O when are you going to look beyond the end of your nose?????take one step beyond,you'd be amazed what life has for you,open BOTH EYES now,friend...steve
Click to expand...


If he opens both eyes, at the same time, he might see YOU.


----------



## Mindful

If you do not smell a rat with the palestinian’s claims regarding these deaths, you are either not paying attention, or your agenda does not involve caring for the truth.




The Latest Case of Palestinian “Choose Your Own Adventure” Storytelling
The case of Muhammad Zain al-Jaabari involves multiple palestinian versions. As usual.
ISRAELLYCOOL.COM


----------



## fanger

Israeli forces on Friday afternoon shot and killed a deaf Palestinian man in the southern occupied West Bank city of Hebron during clashes that were taking place in the Bab al-Zawiya area of the city.





The man was identified as 24-year-old Muhammad Zain al-Jaabari, a father of two from the city of Hebron.




Al-Jaabari was critically injured during clashes between Israeli forces and local Palestinian youth in the city. He was rushed to the hospital but succumbed to his wounds shortly after.




Witnesses claimed that al-Jaabari was not actively engaged in the confrontations when he was shot.




Israeli forces have long been criticized for their use of excessive force against Palestinians, and what rights groups have termed their policy of “extrajudicial execution” in instances where Palestinians who did not pose a direct threat to the lives of soldiers could have been detained in a non-lethal manner

Israeli forces kill deaf Palestinian man during clashes in Hebron


----------



## fanger

Ozraeli Dave (@Israellycool) | Twitter

An Aussie immigrant to Israel, *Aussie Dave* is founder and managing editor of Israellycool, "one of the world's most popular pro-Israel blogs" 

I smell a Rat and it's ( DAVID LANGE) another immigrant or a colostomy bag perhaps?


----------



## Mindful

fanger said:


> View attachment 181830
> Ozraeli Dave (@Israellycool) | Twitter
> 
> An Aussie immigrant to Israel, *Aussie Dave* is founder and managing editor of Israellycool, "one of the world's most popular pro-Israel blogs"
> 
> I smell a Rat and it's ( DAVID LANGE) another immigrant or a colostomy bag perhaps?



That kind of feeble diversionary tactic just doesn't work 

You must have a retarded mentality.


----------



## theliq

fanger said:


> View attachment 181830
> Ozraeli Dave (@Israellycool) | Twitter
> 
> An Aussie immigrant to Israel, *Aussie Dave* is founder and managing editor of Israellycool, "one of the world's most popular pro-Israel blogs"
> 
> I smell a Rat and it's ( DAVID LANGE) another immigrant or a colostomy bag perhaps?


He looks like a Zionist to me,I wish him Happy Days in Zionstan


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Roudy

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
> 
> “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
> “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
> “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roudy,when O when are you going to look beyond the end of your nose?????take one step beyond,you'd be amazed what life has for you,open BOTH EYES now,friend...steve
Click to expand...

Are you trying to tell me that I have a big nose?!


----------



## Roudy

fanger said:


> View attachment 181830
> Ozraeli Dave (@Israellycool) | Twitter
> 
> An Aussie immigrant to Israel, *Aussie Dave* is founder and managing editor of Israellycool, "one of the world's most popular pro-Israel blogs"
> 
> I smell a Rat and it's ( DAVID LANGE) another immigrant or a colostomy bag perhaps?


That's your own smell.


----------



## Sixties Fan

UNRWA Rome Summit to Focus on Funding, Not Legitimacy


----------



## Sixties Fan

Work accident! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## fanger

Elder of Zyklon ??


----------



## Mindful

fanger said:


> Elder of Zyklon ??



No. Klingon. Duh.


----------



## Sixties Fan

It's too soon to categorize today's two Gazan Arab arrivals. Are they terrorists? Social climbers? Economic refugees?

But it's not too soon to absorb the fact that both are alive. And that at least one of them came equipped with weapons. And that Gazans entering Israel _*always *_arrive *without badges stuck to their foreheads *announcing that they are on jihadist missions and looking to create mayhem. That assessment has to be made in the heat of the pursuit by IDF service personnel.

Given the blood-curdling ideology which Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other like-minded terror organizations successfully pump into the heads of their followers and subjects, it's usually strategically wise to assume the most malevolent interpretation.




The intercepted pipe-bomb from the February 13, 2018 attack. The metal ball bearings are there to rip apart the flesh of the victims [Image Source]


Just to reinforce that point, all of these incidents of terror-centered Arab-on-Israeli violence were recorded in the *past 14 hours* - and all were almost certainly intended to produce deaths:

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 11-Mar-18: Why do so many thwarted Arab-on-Israeli terrorists survive?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  "Thou Shalt Not Lie".....does not exist in Islam ]
















*Official PA TV host Walaa Al-Battat:* "The occupation government, (PA euphemism for Israel) which claims it is democratic and has won the support of some of the world's super powers, has built itself on the bodies of children, and it still murders, imprisons, and tortures them with the most extreme types of torture."

(full article online)

PA TV host's libel: Israel "has built itself on the bodies of children" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## theliq

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
> 
> “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
> “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
> “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roudy,when O when are you going to look beyond the end of your nose?????take one step beyond,you'd be amazed what life has for you,open BOTH EYES now,friend...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that I have a big nose?!
Click to expand...

Nope,just a little Myopic Eyes Roudy.........(On reflection,an insult could have been interpreted,you know all that crap about Jews having Big Noses,but that was not my intention at all Rouds,far from it)steve


----------



## rylah

From  Palestinian institute:

Village Profile: Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa 

History Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf






*

*Shammar tribe*

The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with *an estimated around 12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million inSaudi Arabia (concentrated in Ha'il), a Syrianpopulation thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan, Kuwait, and Qatar.[1]* The current seat of the tribe's leadership is in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq. In its "golden age", around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....
In the 17th century, a large section of the Shammar left Jabal Shammar under the leadership of the Al Jarba and settled in Iraq, reaching as far as the northern city ofMosul, their current stronghold.


----------



## rylah

*Emirate of Jabal Shammar*

*



*
*



*

*Questions about "*_*resisting foreign occupation"*_* ?*


----------



## Roudy

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Mahmoud Abbas PA leader.)
> 
> Abbas tribe
> 
> The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
> 
> “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
> “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
> “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roudy,when O when are you going to look beyond the end of your nose?????take one step beyond,you'd be amazed what life has for you,open BOTH EYES now,friend...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that I have a big nose?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope,just a little Myopic Eyes Roudy.........(On reflection,an insult could have been interpreted,you know all that crap about Jews having Big Noses,but that was not my intention at all Rouds,far from it)steve
Click to expand...

Myopic shmyopic! FYI I have a very "goy" nose and appearance.  But considering that there is no charge for breathing air, I look forward to having a big a nose just like the rest of my tribe-mates.


----------



## Sixties Fan

New draft "refugee compact" shows once again how terrible @UNRWA is ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shabiba, Fatah’s student movement, and its female students’ committee “Sisters of Dalal,” named after female terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi, saw International Women’s Day as an appropriate time to glorify Mughrabi, who led the most lethal attack in Israel's history: The Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 12 children and 25 adult Israeli civilians.

At An-Najah University, the "Sisters of Dalal" gave out cards to female workers and students to celebrate Women's Day. Text on the card honored murderer Mughrabi and encouraged women to believe in themselves:






"In honor of March 8 [International Women's Day]
And in honor of the soul of the Martyr of March
Dalal Mughrabi
Surround yourself with great things
And ignore those who do not believe in you,
As you are half of the universe and even more"
[Facebook page of the Fatah Shabiba Student Movement 
at An-Najah National University, March 7, 2018

(full article online)

International Women’s Day or Women’s Terror Day? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## fanger

Sixties Fan said:


> New draft "refugee compact" shows once again how terrible @UNRWA is ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Really, Elder Of Zyklon ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

fanger said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> New draft "refugee compact" shows once again how terrible @UNRWA is ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Really, Elder Of Zyklon ?
Click to expand...

Poor response.  As always.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) was called out on Twitter on Sunday for hypocrisy on the issue of women’s rights.

UNRWA initially tweeted, “In 2017, over 80,000 Palestine refugee community members were engaged in awareness-raising on gender equality and Gender Based Violence through various UNRWA-run activities.”

(full article online)

UN Palestinian Refugee Aid Agency Called Out for Hypocrisy of Women’s Rights Tweet


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Fatah Facebook page has again showed this image of the terrorists behind the Coastal Road Massacre for its 40th anniversary - the massacre with 38 Israeli victims including many children.

The caption  was "Keep going."

(full article online)

Fatah again directly inciting terror ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

From the Hamas-leaning Palestine Times:




Not quite sure I understand it...maybe they are saying that Jews are forcing Abbas to give away Gaza, because, I guess, Israel really wants Gaza. Who knows.

(full article online)

Just another antisemitic cartoon from Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## theliq

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine*, and cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina", throughout the history of the region.
> 
> The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. TheAssyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu", beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to anEsarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]
> 
> The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8]when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_"
> Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia
> Netanyahu by the way is an "adopted name" Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control,
> now you know
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
> 
> “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
> “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
> “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roudy,when O when are you going to look beyond the end of your nose?????take one step beyond,you'd be amazed what life has for you,open BOTH EYES now,friend...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that I have a big nose?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope,just a little Myopic Eyes Roudy.........(On reflection,an insult could have been interpreted,you know all that crap about Jews having Big Noses,but that was not my intention at all Rouds,far from it)steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Myopic shmyopic! FYI I have a very "goy" nose and appearance.  But considering that there is no charge for breathing air, I look forward to having a big a nose just like the rest of my tribe-mates.
Click to expand...

Well Rouds no problem with that,I too have a Gallic NOSE......which ain't small but I have the big EARS to go with it...LOL...steve


----------



## Sixties Fan

In newly revealed posts from a secret British Facebook group, Greta Berlin, the co-founder and spokesperson of the Free Gaza Movement, states that the Israeli troops did not open fire until after Ken O’Keefe, a former US marine aboard the Mavi Marmara, had seized a gun from one of them.

During a heated online debate, in the safety of a Facebook group of pro-Palestinian activists who had all been approved or invited to join, Berlin repeatedly challenged comments from other members praising O’Keefe.

“He was responsible for some of the deaths on board the Mavi Marmara. Had he not disarmed an Israeli terrorist soldier, they would not have started to fire. That’s enough. Most of you have no idea what you’re talking about,” she wrote.

Berlin’s comments, posted in 2014, were made on the Palestine Live group.

(full article online)

Free Gaza spox admits activist initiated fatal 2010 violence aboard Mavi Marmara


----------



## Sixties Fan

We have already documented that the Palestinian Authority has been blocking medicines, fuel and electricity to Gaza - sometimes over the objections of Israel.





Now Al Monitor has a story that shows that Israel is allowing Egypt to deliver food to Gaza against the wishes of the Palestinian Authority!

(full article online)

Of course the PLO won't go to conference to help Gaza. They are the ones who hurt Gazans! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the PNC hasn't met since 2009, it has an active webpage, with virulently anti-Israel and anti-US articles.

For example, the US veto of the Security Council vote against recognizing Jerusalem was marked with this cartoon that equated that with crucifying the Palestinian people, effectively substituting the US for the traditional antisemitic view of Jews as murderers of Jesus.





An earlier article called on Britain to recognize Palestine as "repairing the world" for the crime of Balfour, as the PLO attempted to hijack the Hebrew phrase "tikkun olam."

(full article online)

PLO depicts US as crucifying Palestinians; attempts to hijack "Tikkun Olam," still supports terror ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Journalists' Syndicate is instructing its members to not speak to any American officials.

A meeting was planned for the US consulate in Jerusalem in the coming days and the PJS issued a statement that "the union stressed its rejection of such meetings, or any relationship with the US administration and its embassies and consulates, calling on all journalists not to respond to such calls, considering that participation in them is against the position of the union and the position of national consensus to their arrogance and their disregard for the positions and feelings of the Palestinian people."

(full article online)

Freedom of the Press, Palestinian style ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Texts in Fatah's video praising Mughrabi focus on the fact that the leader of the attack was a woman, and credit her with being "the president of the first republic":


















"The name of the president of the first republic was Dalal Mughrabi.
Heroism has no gender.
Arab men must understand that they don't have a monopoly on the glory of life or the glory of death,
and women can love much more nobly than the way they love, and die in a much more spectacular way than they die"
[Official Fatah Facebook page, March 11, 2018]

(full article online)

"Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

It looks like this UNESCO/Arab League initiative has ended, as the last capital of Arab culture was Sfax, Tunisia in 2016.

So the Palestinians got the Arab League to declare Jerusalem to be the permanent capital of Arab culture!

At a meeting in Cairo, the Palestinians made it clear yet again that their interest in Jerusalem has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with Israel. Their representative said, "The identity of Jerusalem is well established and the attempts of the occupation will collapse in the face of the steadfastness of Palestinians and Jerusalemites in particular." He "reviewed the Israeli attempts to obliterate the Arab identity of the city."

The Palestinian delegation also presented two films, the first about the destruction of the Mughrabi Gate and the second about the theft of the Palestinian heritage by Israel.

Nothing about how important Jerusalem is to them. Only about how awful it is that Jews claim it to be theirs.

(full article online)

Jerusalem declared "permanent" capital of Arab culture ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ But......but......they have no money.....no one donates them money for anything......but....but ]

River of PA sewage flows through Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

When Palestinian Arabs see that Arab-Israelis dominate the pharmacy industry, are heads of departments in prestigious hospitals, boast the best school graduates, are represented in the Knesset, Supreme Court and military, they must surely realise they have been cheated and lied to.

After all, how do you explain success in both Israel and distant Chile, but not the “West Bank” and Gaza despite the international community providing assistance way beyond what Germany received following the Second World War?

(full article online)

Quo Vadis, Palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the issues of the Israel-Palestinian conflict is the refugee problem resulting from those Arabs who left the land during the 1948 War - how many left due to the encouragement of promises from the Arab world, how many out of fear of the chaos of war and how many from other reasons is a question for another time.

Today there is a symbol used to represent this refugee problem: a key.




Art by a teenage Bethlehem artist, entitled Resolution 194,
a UN resolution. The keys symbolize those kept as mementos
by Palestinians who left their homes in 1948 

It is a poignant symbol - but apparently, Arabs have been known to hold onto their keys before.

In 2005, Spain passed a law granting the right of citizenship to Sephardic Jews who were descendants of the Jews who in 1492 were given a choice of either converting or going into exile. Two years later, descendants of Muslims who had been expelled from Spain in the seventeenth century asked for the same treatment. Mansur Escudero, the head of Spain's Islamic Board, representing Spanish Muslims explained at the time:

 "It would be more of an emotional, moral gesture, a recognition of an historic injustice," he told Reuters, adding that _some "Andalusian" families still preserved keys to houses they left behind four centuries ago_. [emphasis added, p. 143]But as it turns out, Arabs are not the only ones to hold onto their keys to remember home.

Nor are they the first - not by a long shot.

While reading Simon Sebag Montefiore's Jerusalem - A Biography, I came across this last week about the Bar Kochba rebellion:

 The Jews retreated to the caves of Judaea, which is why Simon [Bar Kochba]'s letters and their poignant belongings have been found there. _These refugees and warriors carried keys to their abandoned houses, the consolation of those doomed never to return. _[emphasis added]In fact, it appears Jews who were forced out of Spain did the same thing.

(full article online)

Jews Have Also Been Holding Onto Their Keys (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":



*"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we are proud of you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."* 
[Facebook page of the Fatah
 Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
March 2, 2018]

Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."

Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002. 

In a letter he sent from prison, murderer Hammad called for a return of the "resistance" - a Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror attacks against Israelis:

"Hammad demanded to resume and revive the spirit of the revolutionary movement, from which the Fatah Movement arose, and the idea of resistance, given that it is the ideal way to protect our cause and our existence in the shadow of the great challenges and dangers that surround us."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 7, 2018]

In another Fatah post, terrorist Hammad was praised as a "prince" and "the sniper from Wadi Al-Haramiya":

(full article online)

Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On March 14, 2018, Al-Malahem, the media outlet of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), launched a new bulletin named Madad. The first issue of this bulletin is dedicated to Ahmad Nasr Jarrar, a Hamas terrorist who murdered an Israeli in January 2018 and was killed by the Israel Army in early February._

_Glorifying Jarrar, the bulletin calls him "the heir to the martyrs" and an "icon for the jihad fighters," and holds him up as a role model for Palestinians fighting Israel._

_It should be noted that Al-Qaeda sees jihad for the sake of Palestine as a supremely important objective, and views the military arm of Hamas (as opposed to its political apparatus) as a legitimate jihad organization, although Al-Qaeda leaders have frequently leveled harsh criticism at the heads of Hamas, and despite the rivalry and resentment between Al-Qaeda and Hamas's parent organization, the Muslim Brotherhood. In this, Al-Qaeda differs from the Islamic State, which sees all parts of Hamas as heretical, and does not prioritize the jihad in Palestine over the jihad in any other arena. However, despite ascribing importance to Palestine, and although it has branches in many arenas in the Middle East, to date the organization does not have a branch fighting openly in Israel. The dedication of the journal's first issue to Jarrar, who was widely acclaimed by the Palestinian public, the glorification of the war in Palestine, and the emphasis on Al-Qaeda's commitment to this war, are part of the organization's efforts to compensate for its weakness in this arena._

_At the same time, the bulletin also stresses a central Al-Qaeda tenet, namely that, in order for Palestine to be liberated, jihad must first be waged against America, which is "the head of the serpent."_

_The following are excerpts from the bulletin on Jarrar.[1]_

(full article online)

First Issue Of New Al-Qaeda Bulletin Dedicated To Hamas Terrorist Ahmad Jarrar


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Ruins Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Did Tariq Ramadan Lie About His University Credentials? - CONATUS NEWS


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA's Israel office yesterday prompted correction of Associated Press photo captions which erroneously claimed that UNRWA provides services to "some 5 million Palestinian refugees who were displaced during the 1948 war." In fact, the U.N. agency provides services to at most 30,000 Palestinians displaced during the 1948 war. The rest, nearly five million people, are the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and so on, of those displaced in 1948.

(full article online)

CAMERA: CAMERA Prompts AP Corrections on Palestinian Refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Snapshots: <I>Haaretz</I> Deposes Hamas in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC audiences recently saw heavy social media promotion of a programme in the ‘Our World’ series that was broadcast on the BBC News Channel and the BBC World News Channel under the title 

“Working for the Enemy”.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





“Collaborating with Israel can mean prison or death in Gaza. So why do people do it? Some Palestinians say they’re forced or blackmailed, others believe they’re helping to prevent attacks on innocent people. Israel says recruiting Palestinian agents helps protect its citizens. For Our World, BBC Arabic’s Murad Batal Shishani travels to Israel, and Gaza, to unravel a complex web of desperation and exploitation.”

(full article online)

BBC Arabic film on collaborators promotes Hamas messaging – part one


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC Arabic film on collaborators promotes Hamas messaging – part two


----------



## Sixties Fan

While young people across the country are  mobilizing to condemn gun violence, Students for Justice in Palestine Santa Cruz are taking a different route.  This deeply disturbing post advocating for "armed resistance" recently appeared on
the  Santa Cruz SJP chapter Facebook page.

(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: SJP Santa Cruz advocates gun violence and armed resistance


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

I find your posting exceptionally interesting.  Since the:

ψ Life Expectancy:

Total population: 75.2 years
Male: 73.2 years
Female: 77.4 years (2017 est.)

Remember, if you were one day old in 1948 _(once living inside today's sovereign Israel)_, you would be approaching 70 years old.



Sixties Fan said:


> CAMERA's Israel office yesterday prompted correction of Associated Press photo captions which erroneously claimed that UNRWA provides services to "some 5 million Palestinian refugees who were displaced during the 1948 war." In fact, the U.N. agency provides services to at most 30,000 Palestinians displaced during the 1948 war. The rest, nearly five million people, are the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and so on, of those displaced in 1948.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> CAMERA: CAMERA Prompts AP Corrections on Palestinian Refugees


*(COMMENT)*

Very soon, there will not be any such thing as a displaced Palestinian from the 1948 Israeli War of Independence. What survives from the deceased Original Displaced Persons are what is often referred to as descendants which are allowed services from the UNRWA.  Most are not considered "refugees" under Paragraph 11, of the UN General Assembly Resolution of 11 December 1948 (A/AC.25/W/61).

It follows from the foregoing remarks that the term “refugee” appearing in paragraph 11 of the resolution of 11 December 1948
{12/11/1948 
	

 A/RES/194 (III) Palestine question - *UN Mediator report, Conciliation Commission to be established, Jerusalem status, refugees* - GA resolution 194} can be defined as follows:

_Reference is made concerning:  --- A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 Right of Return ---_

_11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

 Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;_
​*Article 1*

Are to be considered as refugees under paragraph 11 of the General Assembly resolution of 11 December 1948 persons of Arab origin who, after 29 November 1947, left territory at present under the control of the Israel authorities and who were Palestinian citizens at that date.
Are also to be considered as refugees under the said paragraph stateless persons of Arab origin who after 29 November 1947 left the aforementioned territory where they had been settled up to that date.​*Article 2*

The following shall be considered as covered by the provisions of Article 1 above:

1. Persons of Arab origin who left the said territory after 6 August 1924 and before 29 November 1947 and who at that latter date were Palestinian citizens;

 2. Persons of Arab origin who left the territory in question before 6 August 1924 and who, having opted for Palestinian citizenship, retained that citizenship up to 29 November 1947.​
Look at the dates, and the significance of the dates:

✪  6 August 1924 – the date on which the Treaty of Lausanne came into force.
✪  29 November 1947 – the date UN Resolution 181 (II) was adopted.​
The longer the Arab Palestinian stall the development of a workable Peace Arrangement, the less likely that there will be
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

If and when Hamas is ever removed from power in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) will most likely seize control of the coastal enclave, where nearly two million Palestinians live.


PIJ's new "political document" exposes the Palestinian terror group's plan for "real peace" in the Middle East. This "real peace," according to the jihadi group, can be achieved by eliminating Israel after "liberating Palestine, from the river to the sea, and after the original owners of the land return to their homes."


This genocidal "peace" plan appears to be shared by other Palestinian terror groups, such as Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine and even certain parts of Mahmoud Abbas's ruling Fatah faction.

(full article online)

The New Palestinian Jihad to Obliterate Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's an idea for those who really, really care about helping Palestinians: Drastically cut UNRWA services to Jordan.

About 40% of UNRWA's "Palestine refugees" live in Jordan, over 2 million people. The vast majority of them have been Jordanian citizens for nearly 70 years!

For 70 years, the world has funded a  housing, medical and educational system for millions of Jordanian citizens that is completely separate and parallel to the existing Jordanian system. They are not refugees by any conceivable definition. The only reason that they are treated differently from any other Jordanian is because some of their ancestors happened to live a few miles away in 1947.

There is no moral, legal or historic reason why these Jordanian citizens need to have their housing, education and medical needs filled by the UN instead of the country that they are citizens of. Nowhere else in the world are people who are full citizens of the country they live in given unending "refugee" aid.

Hundreds of thousands of Jordanian citizens live in camps. Why?

(full article online)

Why is the EU (or anyone) funding @UNRWA in Jordan? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

UN Security Council Resolution 1701 to end the 2006 Lebanon war calls for "full implementation of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, and of resolutions 1559 (2004) and 1680 (2006), that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon, so that, pursuant to the Lebanese cabinet decision of July 27, 2006, there will be no weapons or authority in Lebanon other than that of the Lebanese state."

Yesterday, EU High Representative/Vice-President Federica Mogherini sort of admitted that this has never happened as she said in a speech:

(full article online)

EU notices that UNSC1701 resolution is still not implemented 12 years later ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The Minister called upon UNRWA to "remove from their registration lists every Palestinian who is outside the Lebanese territory or has obtained the nationality of another country, in order to alleviate the organization’s financial burdens, on the one hand, and contribute to reducing the number of refugees in Lebanon, on the other hand, without tampering with the right of return, which is sacred.

“If we approach the situation the way the international community is approaching it on the subject of displaced Syrians, we would then call upon the international community itself to organize a campaign of voluntary return of Palestinian refugees, since all the elements for a safe and dignified return are available in the Palestinian case. Double-standard policies are no longer accepted. We must return to the humane conscience to solve the problem of UNRWA and Palestinian refugees."He is not calling for Palestinians in Lebanon to become citizens of the PA, but for the international community to pressure Israel to accept them."
-----------

Because, you know, we must punish the Jews who have introduced Islamic terror and Christian persecution to the world.

(full article online)

At EU conference, Lebanese minister calls for voluntary "return" for Palestinians to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian groups in the West Bank and Gaza called for Friday to be a “day of rage” to mark 100 days since US President Donald Trump announced his decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces, a coalition consisting of various groups, called on Palestinians to confront IDF soldiers and settlers immediately after the Friday prayers.

It would be the latest in a series of weekly demonstrations, many of them violent, which have taken place since the December 6 announcement and subsequent moves for the US to move its embassy to the city. Many of the protests shrunk in size after the first few weeks.

(full article online)

One killed, 4 said hurt in suspected car-ramming terror attack in West Bank


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

I agree.  BUT, this is just one blade to the Double Edged Sword.  For most people in the world, this means nothing more than ✪⇒ "Business as Usual within the Arab Palestinian Regime _(such that it is)_.



Sixties Fan said:


> If and when Hamas is ever removed from power in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) will most likely seize control of the coastal enclave, where nearly two million Palestinians live.
> 
> 
> PIJ's new "political document" exposes the Palestinian terror group's plan for "real peace" in the Middle East. This "real peace," according to the jihadi group, can be achieved by eliminating Israel after "liberating Palestine, from the river to the sea, and after the original owners of the land return to their homes."
> 
> 
> This genocidal "peace" plan appears to be shared by other Palestinian terror groups, such as Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine and even certain parts of Mahmoud Abbas's ruling Fatah faction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The New Palestinian Jihad to Obliterate Israel


*(COMMENT)*

This is a difference without a distinction.  

•  Practically speaking:​
■  Most all flavors of Palestinian, opposes the existence of Israel.  
■  Some oppose it violently, and continue the struggle to dissolve the Jewish National Home.
■  Some have come to believe that there will always be an Israel, so they want to settle for the best outcome.
■  Some have resigned themselves to the fact that the feud will continue at least until the hardliners melt away (which may be never since the Palestinians have become the beneficiaries of generational hatred training.​
But → The PLO Charter and The HAMAS Covenant are, for many Palestinians, the definitive political instruction on the hereditary plan from the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) made in 6 February 1948 _(before Israel was declared)_:

"The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations,
before God and history, 
that they will never submit or yield to any power
going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only
way to establish partition is first to wipe them 
out — man, woman and child."​
As long as the Arab Palestinians fight among themselves

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Front page of official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, featuring 'Abbas-Haddad meeting (Source: Al-Haya.ps, March 15, 2018) _

It should be noted that this is not the first time that 'Abbas has met with released prisoners. He has also met with terrorists who have themselves carried out attacks, and with families of "martyrs" killed in carrying out such

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority President 'Abbas Meets With Released Prisoner Who Was Accomplice In Murder Of Israeli


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Someone found out where the US and EU money is going.....  ]


With the US announcing cuts in aid money to the Palestinians, one might think the Palestinian Authority would try to cut expenses, but an invoice from a hotel stay by top Palestinian officials this month indicates the exact opposite.

The document, obtained by _The Jerusalem Post_, shows that PA Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki and General Intelligence Service chief Majed Faraj, as well as two lower-level officials, stayed at the five-star Four Seasons Hotel in Baltimore, racking up a $14,250.20 bill, including room service and minibar purchases such as $42 on champagne, and a $4 Snickers bar.


The entire bill was covered by the PLO Delegation to the US.

The luxury hotel stay came not long after President Donald Trump said the US will no longer send aid money to Ramallah until the Palestinian leadership negotiates with Israel, and after the State Department cut $110 million of aid money to UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees and their descendants. The US is UNRWA’s largest donor. On Thursday, a dozen countries pledged a total of $100m. to UNRWA.

Among Faraj’s expenses was a $900 “miscellaneous charges” fee, plus several room service meals, including a $140.09 breakfast, and a late-night room service snack costing $91.31. He also raided the minibar, spending $32 on snacks in one day, including $8 each for some cashews and cookies, and racked up $120 in laundry charges.

(full article online)

PA officials living large at 5-star hotel: $14,250 bill, incl. champagne


----------



## Sixties Fan

Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign #JewHate in #Scotland #StandWithUs


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Palestinians......Peabody in Fictional creation ]

Palestinian Authority: Israel asking countries to move embassies to Jlem is "political terrorism" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over 4000 NGOs in the territories ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

No matter how hard the State Department crowd wishes it, the Palestinian Authority is not going to fight Hamas for control of Gaza. In fact, it’s not going to fight Hamas at all.

(full article online)

The Trump administration just doesn’t get Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> No matter how hard the State Department crowd wishes it, the Palestinian Authority is not going to fight Hamas for control of Gaza. In fact, it’s not going to fight Hamas at all.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Trump administration just doesn’t get Gaza


 Hamas got Gaza the minute the Israelis got out


----------



## Sixties Fan

A single phrase in an article on the thousands of NGOs in the territories, written for the Islamic Jihad mouthpiece Palestine Today, is pretty telling:

While Hamas in Gaza was closing down any institution with the titles "coexistence and peace" or forcing others to make a "detailed disclosure" of its financial accounts,...I'd love to hear what the Hamas apologists throughout the years who have bent over backwards to pretend that the group was actually interested in peace have to say about this!

Hamas closed any NGO in Gaza with the words "peace" or "coexistence" in its name ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why so many Arabs are attacking Jews in the name of Palestine/Allah ]




This screen shot from a video clip taken at the scene and uploaded to theHebrew-language rotter.com site shows the attack vehicle, a relatively newSUV with severe damage from striking multiple human beings,killing some of them

"Meanwhile, Shin Bet released a statement Saturday evening saying that while the terrorist initially insisted the attack was merely an accident, he confessed under interrogation to having acted under nationalistic motives. Kabha's brother remains in custody and the degree of his potential involvement in the attack is still being investigated. Shin Bet added that no other persons involved in the attack or aware of Kabha's intentions were known at present, meaning he was a "lone wolf" terrorist acting without the guidance of a terror group.

"Under the Palestinian Authority's Martyrs Fund (in dozens of our posts we refer to it as the PA *Rewards for Terror* scheme) rules, this renders him qualified to start receiving reward payments. These send a signal to Palestinian Arab society that what the attacker did is precisely the kind of action that the PA leadership needs, wants, encourages and finances.

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 16-Mar-18 [UPDATED]: An Arab-on-Israeli vehicle ramming in the Samarian hills Friday afternoon; tragic results

[ No other group of people around the world kill to be financially rewarded, or their families taken care of ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

n 2010, I reported on an actually useful UNRWA program to build houses out of bricks made with local materials. This way, houses (apparently only single story)  could be built without worries about importing materials that Israel restricts because they could also be used for terror tunnels.

Now there are reports that a new commercial market is being built in Gaza out of the same kinds of materials. It is due to open in a few months.

These sorts of stories of good news from Gaza don't get mentioned in the media - because they show that Gazans can be their own agents of change, and that story contradicts the meme of Israel - and only Israel - being responsible for Gaza misery. The PA, Egypt, Hamas, and Gazans cannot be considered to have any responsibility for their own well-being.





(more photos and video online)

A new market in Gaza made out of mud bricks ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since October 30, Israel has destroyed four border-crossing tunnels that entered Israeli territory from Gaza, three of them belonging to Hamas and the fourth to the Iran-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group. In addition, several tunnels  located inside the coastal enclave have also been targeted using a newly developed system that allows Israel to hit them from the air.

Army officials have said that they expect to find and destroy more tunnels as construction of the barrier continues.

Sunday’s border-crossing tunnel was first discovered by the Israel Defense Forces in July 2014 and was partially destroyed during the war, Conricus told reporters.

However, since the 2014 campaign, known in Israel as Operation Protective Edge, Hamas has been trying to reconnect what remained of the tunnel to a new passage being dug in southern Gaza, he said.

(full article online)

Hamas dismisses IDF-bombed tunnel as ‘old’ and ‘unused’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Every day, the Muslims teach hatred of Jews.  Every day, the Muslims attack Jews and attempt to kill them.  All in the name of their god, Allah.  All in the name of the fake narrative that "their land" was stolen from them, and they are victims of the Jews.  Everyday.   ]


Terror in Jerusalem | Attack in Old City of Jerusalem leaves one in serious condition


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas meets with released terrorist who helped murder Israeli


----------



## Sixties Fan

Playing catch-up: 7 things to know for March 18


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Playing catch-up: 7 things to know for March 18


WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda suite.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Playing catch-up: 7 things to know for March 18
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda suite.
Click to expand...


Wow. Such a Pom Pom flailer for Islamic terrorists. 

Those who can’t, flail their Pom Poms. 

Israeli military destroys Gaza tunnel, underground military complex - CNN

Jerusalem (CNN)The Israeli military destroyed a Hamas tunnel in southern Gaza on Sunday morning and struck an underground "military complex" in central Gaza, Israel Defence Forces (IDF) spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus said.

According to Conricus, Hamas was trying to reconnect an old tunnel, destroyed in July 2014, to a new section of tunnel in southern Gaza. Conricus added that Israel has been monitoring the digging using new detection technology for the last few weeks.


Curious that Arabs- Moslems are living in mud huts while the Hamas tunnel rats are able to pay for concrete.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

But the danger of losing one's job for participating in these protests with rocks and firebombs is definitely something that will dissuade the employees of American and European NGOs. Remember that when I and UN Watch publicized UNRWA workers' pro-terror Facebook postings, UNRWA threatened the jobs of anyone who embarrassed them this way - and the postings have all but ended.

The NGOs employ tens of thousands, which is only a small percentage of the workforce, but part of the article is showing that youths would rather work for these NGOs - with relatively high salaries in a scarce job market - than join terror organizations like Islamic Jihad. In that narrow sense, these NGOs helping to move the anti-Israel protests from the violent to the political, because these NGOs are invariably anti-Israel and nearly their entire output is anti-Israel reports, some of which make it into the mainstream media and official UN and EU reports.

Palestinian Arabs would be far better served with jobs that actually contributed something to their society. NGO jobs do not give the same sense of pride that one gets from manufacturing or computer programming.

But in the medium term, the desire to make money is a huge incentive in how Palestinians act.

Which is the major reason why the PLO pays salaries to terrorists and their families.

(full article online)

Palestinians admit that anti-Trump protests were a bust - but you'll never guess who they blame! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza airport employees held a protest recently protesting the PA's decision to force them into early retirement.

Which means that they have been getting salaries for the past 18 years even though the airport doesn't exist.

(full article online)

Gaza airport employees protest early retirement. (Airport closed in 2000.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Indy falsely claims Fatah was founded by Arafat to merely ‘create a Palestinian state’.


----------



## Sixties Fan

From TOI:

 Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas launched an unprecedentedly scathing attack Monday on US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman, calling him a “son of a dog” and a “settler.”

Abbas, addressing the opening of a Palestinian leadership meeting, made the comments hours after Friedman criticized the PA on Twitter for failing to condemn a pair of terror attacks over the weekend.This was not a slip of the tongue.  Abbas was counting on the controversy and it using it to shore up his popularity among Palestinians.

The Fatah Facebook page shows a poster of Friedman with the Arabic "son of a dog" and "settler" written on it - as a hashtag.

(posters)

These were all posted in the middle of the night in Ramallah.
This was clearly a scheduled campaign to make Abbas look like he is strong for standing up to America. 

(full article online)

Abbas calling Friedman "son of a dog" was a calculated move to increase his popularity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

March 19, 2018 / NGO Monitor) That journalists rely uncritically on nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), especially in the context of the Arab-Israeli conflict, is well established (read Matti Friedman in The Atlantic). Legal and factual claims by groups that purport to promote human rights are often treated as automatically credible, while their political biases, lack of methodology and even ties to terror organizations are ignored.

Glenn Kessler’s March 14 Washington Post “Fact Checker” column, Does the Palestinian Authority pay $350 million a year to ‘terrorists and their families’?, responding to statements made by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about prisoner payments, suffers from the same overdependence.

(full article online)

‘The Washington Post’ gets its ‘facts’ from terror-linked NGOs


----------



## Sixties Fan

Delusional Abbas accuses the US of helping Hamas to build a state in Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Encouraging Jihad And _Shahada_ By Showing The Rewards Promised To The _Shahid_ (Martyr) In The World To Come In The Quran And Hadith

-----
Cultivating Antisemitic Messages: The Story Of The Battle Of Khaybar – Depicting Jews As Cunning

---------
Religious Tolerance As Portrayed In The Islamic Education Schoolbooks
-------

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Schoolbooks For 2017-18: Increased Indoctrination To Jihad And Martyrdom


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Billo_Really

Palestinian's show the world what a true hero is.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*A “Peaceful” March Won’t Happen*

Features of the planned activities include a mass Palestinian presence along the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel, erecting tents along the border, and “peaceful” marches of return.  The expression “peaceful” is a euphemism for violent disturbances of public order, including attempts to kill Israelis.

The leaders of the committee are authorized to decide for the mob to break through the border fence between Gaza and Israel, and they have hinted at their intention to issue such an order.

At the same time, and in conjunction with the activities connected to the march of return, Palestinian and pro-Palestinian organizations in Europe are arranging protest activities for the realization of the right to return and a flotilla for breaking the embargo on the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Gaza “March of Return” – The Complete Picture


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *A “Peaceful” March Won’t Happen*
> 
> Features of the planned activities include a mass Palestinian presence along the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel, erecting tents along the border, and “peaceful” marches of return.  The expression “peaceful” is a euphemism for violent disturbances of public order, including attempts to kill Israelis.
> 
> The leaders of the committee are authorized to decide for the mob to break through the border fence between Gaza and Israel, and they have hinted at their intention to issue such an order.
> 
> At the same time, and in conjunction with the activities connected to the march of return, Palestinian and pro-Palestinian organizations in Europe are arranging protest activities for the realization of the right to return and a flotilla for breaking the embargo on the Gaza Strip.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza “March of Return” – The Complete Picture


Cool. Looks like a well planned event.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A “Peaceful” March Won’t Happen*
> 
> Features of the planned activities include a mass Palestinian presence along the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel, erecting tents along the border, and “peaceful” marches of return.  The expression “peaceful” is a euphemism for violent disturbances of public order, including attempts to kill Israelis.
> 
> The leaders of the committee are authorized to decide for the mob to break through the border fence between Gaza and Israel, and they have hinted at their intention to issue such an order.
> 
> At the same time, and in conjunction with the activities connected to the march of return, Palestinian and pro-Palestinian organizations in Europe are arranging protest activities for the realization of the right to return and a flotilla for breaking the embargo on the Gaza Strip.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza “March of Return” – The Complete Picture
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. Looks like a well planned event.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA may consider declaring Gaza ‘rebel district,’ cutting enclave off


----------



## Sixties Fan

We've talked about this many times before, but it is hard to imagine a more obvious example of how Palestinians in general, and Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party in particular, actively support and encourage terror.

(full article online)

Fatah videos celebrating a mass murderer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abdel Bari Atwan, editor-in-chief of Rai al-Youm and former editor in chief of Al Quds Al Arabi, has an editorial where he wonders whether Abbas is all there. The long headline is a synopsis:

 Why did President Abbas depart from diplomatic norms and describe the American ambassador as "the son of a dog"? Is it reasonable to raise his anger against America and Hamas at the same time? What is the guilt of two million people in Gaza to pay the price of this anger? Has his health deteriorated?

Atwan, who says that he wishes Abbas had declared a new intifada in his speech instead, adds:

 There is a secret that we do not know about the health and psychological state of President Abbas, and we do not rule out that the disease lies behind his emotions. He went through tests at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in Maryland, specializing in incurable diseases, during his recent visit to America.

(full article online)

Arabs starting to question Abbas' sanity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why won’t anyone listen to Abbas?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Why won’t anyone listen to Abbas?


Abbas - a "leader" without followers. Nobody cares what he says.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why won’t anyone listen to Abbas?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas - a "leader" without followers. Nobody cares what he says.
Click to expand...

No one....except all the ones who keep coming into Israel to kill Jews.....or all the ones who kill Jews in Judea and Samaria.....No....one...


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Peaceful' Palestinian protests 


The Palestinians are busy planning mass processions toward Israel ahead of the U.S. Embassy move to Jerusalem in May, in an attempt to create a "third intifada" that copies the murderous First Intifada of 1987-1991, which they define as a success. The Second Intifada, of course, was defeated by the Israel Defense Forces with our resilient nation's backing.

Most Palestinians understand that these attempts will bring nothing but the loss of life.

This was also true of Sari Nusseibeh's plan. A partner to the 1973 Geneva Conference, he spearheaded the effort to form a human chain of protesters along the length of the 1967 borders. In early 2002, police found a screensaver on a computer belonging to this "man of peace" that showed a Palestinian human chain planned for June that year. It showed figures closing in on Israel from all sides, dividing the country in two, against the background of a bloody clock. Hand grenades were also shown being thrown at the "occupation." In the accompanying caption, Nusseibeh expressed confidence that Europe would support the Palestinian struggle.

This presentation is a reflection of the hateful mindset of the Palestinians.

Terrorist acts carried out by "victims" under the false pretenses of arguments about peace, sometimes with Israelis' assistance, and the exploitation of anti-Semitic hatred for their benefit:  Experience shows us that in these cynical "non-violent demonstrations," people serve as pawns.

The Palestinians thank Allah that the Jews are their enemy. They interpret military ethics, the value attributed to life, the trepidation at war and sensitivity to international opinion as a weakness to be used as leverage for deception, blackmail and terrorism.


(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/peaceful-palestinian-protests/


----------



## RoccoR

characteristics:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

I do not think that we should consider that:  President Abbas changed his attitude towards the US.  Not at all.  These types of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have been holding their deceptive stance for more than half a century.  President Abbas is just being childish and throwing a hissy-fit (_first coming into *common usage in 1967 to describe the HoAP* emotional outburst over the outcome of the Six-Day War_).

Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable.  This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6). 



Sixties Fan said:


> Abdel Bari Atwan, editor-in-chief of Rai al-Youm and former editor in chief of Al Quds Al Arabi, has an editorial where he wonders whether Abbas is all there. The long headline is a synopsis:
> 
> Why did President Abbas depart from diplomatic norms and describe the American ambassador as "the son of a dog"? Is it reasonable to raise his anger against America and Hamas at the same time? What is the guilt of two million people in Gaza to pay the price of this anger? Has his health deteriorated?
> 
> Atwan, who says that he wishes Abbas had declared a new intifada in his speech instead, adds:
> 
> There is a secret that we do not know about the health and psychological state of President Abbas, and we do not rule out that the disease lies behind his emotions. He went through tests at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in Maryland, specializing in incurable diseases, during his recent visit to America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arabs starting to question Abbas' sanity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

Today's "HoAP Hissy Fit" is over President Trump's announced diplomatic and political position is that  America "finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital.” (109 STAT. 398 PUBLIC LAW 104–45—NOV. 8, 1995)  This recognition implies sovereignty.

But the most civil tone of the past has always been a tool of deception for the Arab Palestinians to use as a mask.  The Arab Palestinians (whatever the flavor you might choose) has often spoken with forked tongue making one position known to the general population - while - having expressed one position for domestic consumption --- and --- another position internationally.

The HoAP have a difficult time with right and wrong.  The first diplomatic option considered by the HoAP is "conflict."  They try to play dumb on matters of supporting terrorism, yet maintain and direct HoAP in matters of pursueing the alternative hostile asymmetric conflict.

Of all the characteristics exhibited through the dysfunctional splinter groups that collectively the HoAP, the most common flaw is that of the  "Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)."  Nowhere is it more exemplified than in the position that they are not "terrorist" → YET → will openly praise people like Dalal Mughrabi, who actually did kill unarmed women and children on masse.   It is not like there is a dispute as to whether the terrorist acts were actually executed.  The HoAP openly admit is and memorialize the terrorist as a "martyr."  The DID comes into play when the HoAP attempt to justify their terrorist actions → efforts by "freedom fighters" attempting to free themselves by any means necessary.  This DID also manifests itself as the leap into the role of the victim; when they nearly always provoke the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).


Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.

What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> characteristics:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I think you have hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I do not think that we should consider that:  President Abbas changed his attitude towards the US.  Not at all.  These types of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have been holding their deceptive stance for more than half a century.  President Abbas is just being childish and throwing a hissy-fit (_first coming into *common usage in 1967 to describe the HoAP* emotional outburst over the outcome of the Six-Day War_).
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable.  This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abdel Bari Atwan, editor-in-chief of Rai al-Youm and former editor in chief of Al Quds Al Arabi, has an editorial where he wonders whether Abbas is all there. The long headline is a synopsis:
> 
> Why did President Abbas depart from diplomatic norms and describe the American ambassador as "the son of a dog"? Is it reasonable to raise his anger against America and Hamas at the same time? What is the guilt of two million people in Gaza to pay the price of this anger? Has his health deteriorated?
> 
> Atwan, who says that he wishes Abbas had declared a new intifada in his speech instead, adds:
> 
> There is a secret that we do not know about the health and psychological state of President Abbas, and we do not rule out that the disease lies behind his emotions. He went through tests at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in Maryland, specializing in incurable diseases, during his recent visit to America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arabs starting to question Abbas' sanity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today's "HoAP Hissy Fit" is over President Trump's announced diplomatic and political position is that  America "finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital.” (109 STAT. 398 PUBLIC LAW 104–45—NOV. 8, 1995)  This recognition implies sovereignty.
> 
> But the most civil tone of the past has always been a tool of deception for the Arab Palestinians to use as a mask.  The Arab Palestinians (whatever the flavor you might choose) has often spoken with forked tongue making one position known to the general population - while - having expressed one position for domestic consumption --- and --- another position internationally.
> 
> The HoAP have a difficult time with right and wrong.  The first diplomatic option considered by the HoAP is "conflict."  They try to play dumb on matters of supporting terrorism, yet maintain and direct HoAP in matters of pursueing the alternative hostile asymmetric conflict.
> 
> Of all the characteristics exhibited through the dysfunctional splinter groups that collectively the HoAP, the most common flaw is that of the  "Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)."  Nowhere is it more exemplified than in the position that they are not "terrorist" → YET → will openly praise people like Dalal Mughrabi, who actually did kill unarmed women and children on masse.   It is not like there is a dispute as to whether the terrorist acts were actually executed.  The HoAP openly admit is and memorialize the terrorist as a "martyr."  The DID comes into play when the HoAP attempt to justify their terrorist actions → efforts by "freedom fighters" attempting to free themselves by any means necessary.  This DID also manifests itself as the leap into the role of the victim; when they nearly always provoke the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, another slime piece against the Palestinians.

What else you got?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> characteristics:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I think you have hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I do not think that we should consider that:  President Abbas changed his attitude towards the US.  Not at all.  These types of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have been holding their deceptive stance for more than half a century.  President Abbas is just being childish and throwing a hissy-fit (_first coming into *common usage in 1967 to describe the HoAP* emotional outburst over the outcome of the Six-Day War_).
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable.  This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abdel Bari Atwan, editor-in-chief of Rai al-Youm and former editor in chief of Al Quds Al Arabi, has an editorial where he wonders whether Abbas is all there. The long headline is a synopsis:
> 
> Why did President Abbas depart from diplomatic norms and describe the American ambassador as "the son of a dog"? Is it reasonable to raise his anger against America and Hamas at the same time? What is the guilt of two million people in Gaza to pay the price of this anger? Has his health deteriorated?
> 
> Atwan, who says that he wishes Abbas had declared a new intifada in his speech instead, adds:
> 
> There is a secret that we do not know about the health and psychological state of President Abbas, and we do not rule out that the disease lies behind his emotions. He went through tests at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in Maryland, specializing in incurable diseases, during his recent visit to America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arabs starting to question Abbas' sanity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today's "HoAP Hissy Fit" is over President Trump's announced diplomatic and political position is that  America "finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital.” (109 STAT. 398 PUBLIC LAW 104–45—NOV. 8, 1995)  This recognition implies sovereignty.
> 
> But the most civil tone of the past has always been a tool of deception for the Arab Palestinians to use as a mask.  The Arab Palestinians (whatever the flavor you might choose) has often spoken with forked tongue making one position known to the general population - while - having expressed one position for domestic consumption --- and --- another position internationally.
> 
> The HoAP have a difficult time with right and wrong.  The first diplomatic option considered by the HoAP is "conflict."  They try to play dumb on matters of supporting terrorism, yet maintain and direct HoAP in matters of pursueing the alternative hostile asymmetric conflict.
> 
> Of all the characteristics exhibited through the dysfunctional splinter groups that collectively the HoAP, the most common flaw is that of the  "Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)."  Nowhere is it more exemplified than in the position that they are not "terrorist" → YET → will openly praise people like Dalal Mughrabi, who actually did kill unarmed women and children on masse.   It is not like there is a dispute as to whether the terrorist acts were actually executed.  The HoAP openly admit is and memorialize the terrorist as a "martyr."  The DID comes into play when the HoAP attempt to justify their terrorist actions → efforts by "freedom fighters" attempting to free themselves by any means necessary.  This DID also manifests itself as the leap into the role of the victim; when they nearly always provoke the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another slime piece against the Palestinians.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...

What do we have?
Your endless ignorance and lack of shame in changing history and the meaning of things, no matter what they are.

That is what we apparently have had for the past nine years.....and counting......


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
Click to expand...


Your attempts at legal shenanigans are truly remarkable.  

Recognition does not create a condition where a sovereign nation can not change.  It only creates a condition where recognition of sovereignty, once granted, can not be "ungranted".

Thus the US, as an example, can recognize Czechoslovakia.  It can not then turn around and unrecognize Czechoslovakia.  But this does not create a condition where Czechoslovakia can not make changes to its own sovereignty.  (That is what self-determination IS.)  If Czechoslovakia divides into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, THEN the US has the option of recognizing, or not recognizing, either new nation or both.

You really do a disservice to the Arab Palestinians with your odd ideas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your attempts at legal shenanigans are truly remarkable.
> 
> Recognition does not create a condition where a sovereign nation can not change.  It only creates a condition where recognition of sovereignty, once granted, can not be "ungranted".
> 
> Thus the US, as an example, can recognize Czechoslovakia.  It can not then turn around and unrecognize Czechoslovakia.  But this does not create a condition where Czechoslovakia can not make changes to its own sovereignty.  (That is what self-determination IS.)  If Czechoslovakia divides into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, THEN the US has the option of recognizing, or not recognizing, either new nation or both.
> 
> You really do a disservice to the Arab Palestinians with your odd ideas.
Click to expand...

All the attempts by foreigners to divide Palestine have failed. Only the Palestinians have the authority to divide Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your attempts at legal shenanigans are truly remarkable.
> 
> Recognition does not create a condition where a sovereign nation can not change.  It only creates a condition where recognition of sovereignty, once granted, can not be "ungranted".
> 
> Thus the US, as an example, can recognize Czechoslovakia.  It can not then turn around and unrecognize Czechoslovakia.  But this does not create a condition where Czechoslovakia can not make changes to its own sovereignty.  (That is what self-determination IS.)  If Czechoslovakia divides into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, THEN the US has the option of recognizing, or not recognizing, either new nation or both.
> 
> You really do a disservice to the Arab Palestinians with your odd ideas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the attempts by foreigners to divide Palestine have failed. Only the Palestinians have the authority to divide Palestine.
Click to expand...


Foreigners didn’t divide your mythical “Pal’Istan”. Arabs-Moslems have already divided the land area into two, separate mini-caliphates, both of which exist by the indulgence of a dedicated, UN sponsored welfare agency.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
Click to expand...


Oh, Jesse. Another of your attempts to re-write history.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, Jesse. Another of your attempts to re-write history.
Click to expand...

What history am I trying to rewrite?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, Jesse. Another of your attempts to re-write history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What history am I trying to rewrite?
Click to expand...

The History you refuse to accept.
It is History.  It cannot be changed.
You and others who do not like Jews being sovereign of their destiny on their ancient homeland, will never - ever be able to rewrite history, lie your way into Jews losing their own homeland.

Reject history and the right of the Jewish people as the rightful owners of their own ancient homeland all you like.

We know you are playing games.

Pin the donkey on fools who believe that Jews are not the indigenous people of the land they now are sovereign of, again.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You get this wrong, (almost) every single time.  Saying such, and taking such liberties with the truth does not make it correct.  Merely, it becomes a false mantra.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a country declares an explicit "recognition" on a matter of sovereignty *✪⇒* it becomes unconditional and irrevocable. This concept has been true since the 1933 Convention on Rights and Duties of States (last sentence in Article 6).
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period.
> 
> What happened to that unconditional and irrevocable recognition?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Actually, IT WAS NOT recognized as a sovereign state or self-governing.  My two favorite documents to demonstrate this, is →  of course → A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 → which is the legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate" AND the status of Palestine before the termination.  When Married up to the → Memorandum of the Successor Government PAL/138 27 February 1948 → the projected status becomes clear:

•  Prior to 15 May 1948, was not a sovereign state. Palestine was a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who was entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.  (NO self-government.) 

•  After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the _de facto_ or the _de jure_ Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

■  After the 15th May, 1948, _*Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing*_. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​
Oddly enough, even with the adoption of A/RES/67/19, there was still some question as to the meaning and practical usage of the name change.  It is a very important document and raises some serious questions as to its practical meaning.  BUT to the question at hand, it says:



​
√  Your statement  "Palestine was recognized as a state, including by the US, all during the Mandate period." is entirely wrong.  I encourage you to read UN Legal Affairs Memo Dec 2012...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

That has been the Arab Higher Council's mantra from day one.



P F Tinmore said:


> All the attempts by foreigners to divide Palestine have failed. Only the Palestinians have the authority to divide Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

The territory designated, by the Allied Powers, as "Palestine" →  was not the Arab Palestinians to exercise any authority over to begin with.

Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
The rights and title renounced by the Turkish Republic were placed in the hands of the respective Allied Power.  It was not placed into the hands of any Arab Palestinians attempting to use violence against the Allied Powers.

The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.  (Representatives of the Arab Higher Committee A/AC.21/10  16 FEB 1948)​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.


What makes you believe that the "parties concerned" are the foreigners with guns and not the legal citizens of that defined territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The rights and title renounced by the Turkish Republic were placed in the hands of the respective Allied Power.


*Not true.*

The Mandates had a non annexation policy. They never claimed title and rights to the territories. They merely held the territories in trust on behalf of the respective citizens of the territories.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you believe that the "parties concerned" are the foreigners with guns and not the legal citizens of that defined territory?
Click to expand...

Which is what both sides claim.
 You're going in circles.


----------



## RoccoR

RE  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Not that I know anything, BUT the parties to the ✪⇒ *TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY SIGNED AT LAUSANNE JULY 24, 1923 *are listed in the Treaty.  The list of plenipotentiaries in this matter includes selected member of the Allied Powers on one side, and the Turkish Republic on the other.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you believe that the "parties concerned" are the foreigners with guns and not the legal citizens of that defined territory?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There are several reasons --- which I will try to discuss in thumbnail form.

The list of countries invested with the full power of independent action on behalf of their government, did not include a plenipotentiary for the Arab Palestinians.  Such was not created until the *Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine, *Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974; wherein the "Palestine Liberation Organization, the *sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people* in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."

The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other.

PART I • INTRODUCTION → Article 2 • Use of terms → VIENNA CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF TREATIES

(g) 'party' means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;​
That does not include a Palestinian entity of any nature.  The Arab Palestinians were the inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory, prior to the establishment of the Civil Administration AND those inhabitants of the territory to which the Mandate of Palestine applied.

While it can be said that the Arab Palestinians had concerns, by 1922 the Mandatory had been entrusted with the control of the foreign relations of Palestine under Article 12 in the Mandate for Palestine.  Only the accredited British _*plenipotentiary* _had the authority to represent the interests of the inhabitants of the territory subject to the Palestine Order in Council. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Only the accredited British _*plenipotentiary* _had the authority to represent the interests of the inhabitants of the territory


Of course representing the interests of the inhabitants is something that Britain failed (or refused) to do that created the problem we still see today.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only the accredited British _*plenipotentiary* _had the authority to represent the interests of the inhabitants of the territory
> 
> 
> 
> Of course representing the interests of the inhabitants is something that Britain failed (or refused) to do that created the problem we still see today.
Click to expand...


The "aggrieved victim" complex you try to exploit is old, tired and played out. At some point, Arabs-Moslems will need to accept responsibility for their failures. There are many examples of societies which have taken control of their destinies, rejected wallowing in failure and incompetence and taken measures to improve their circumstances.

Not Arabs-Moslems, of course.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only the accredited British _*plenipotentiary* _had the authority to represent the interests of the inhabitants of the territory
> 
> 
> 
> Of course representing the interests of the inhabitants is something that Britain failed (or refused) to do that created the problem we still see today.
Click to expand...

Exactly, they refused to represent the interests of the Jewish indigenous people after the mandate started by :
1) giving away 78% of the Mandate to the Hashemite Arabs, 

2) refusing to protect the Jewish indigenous people from the aggressive Arab invaders who wanted to keep control of the land as Muslims, after the Muslim Turks lost their Empire and the land after WWI.

The British wanted to keep the rest of the Mandate for themselves, instead of doing what they did with Iraq, help it become a sovereign, autonomous country (which happened in 1932 )

The British did not create the problem we have today, Al Husseini did with his refusal to allow the Jews to recreate their sovereign country ON their ancestral land, with all the riots against the Jews, plus all the attacks on the British as well which led the British to attempt to make the Arabs happy by denying the Jews their right to return to their ancestral land , as they had been doing for centuries.

The problem is very simple:
Muslims want to keep all the land they once conquered, regardless of the fact that they have lost a huge war, or what anyone else decides.

If the land remains in Muslim hands, they are ok with it, for sometime until they attempt to take it from the other tribe which now has it (the Saudi clan taking over Hashemite land in Mesopotamia).

It is a Muslim on Jews war.

The Jews accepted the partition of their own ancestral land, the Muslims wanted it all.

Muslim mentality.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jordan sentences a Palestinian to seven years hard labor for planning to stab Jews in Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In response Rabab Ibrahim Abdulhadi, Associate Professor of Ethnic Studies/Race and Resistance Studies, wrote what would be considered an astounding statement anywhere outside of academia:

" I consider the statement below from President Wong, welcoming Zionists to campus, equating Jewishness with Zionism, and giving Hillel ownership of campus Jewishness, to be a declaration of war against Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians and all those who are committed to an indivisible sense of justice on and off campus....

I am ashamed to be affiliated with SFSU administration and demand the immediate retraction of this racist, Islamophobic and colonialist statement, and the restoration of SFSU social justice mission.

At a time when we are marking 50 years since the 1968 SFSU student strike and the quest to decolonize the curriculum, it is embarrassing to have our campus leadership cater to donor pressures and the Israeli lobby."


The dear academic is saying that  the statement "Zionists are welcome on our campus" to be a declaration of war, Islamophobic, racist and colonialist.

Oh, and the only reason anyone would say that a campus can welcome pro-Israel opinions is because they are getting money from the "Israeli lobby" (wink, wink.)

A fun postscript: Leslie Wong addressed Abdulhadi's group in 2015, and described her as a "first-rate scholar, the model of the kind of person that I want around young people." (16:53 of video.) Already at that time the professor had been known to meet with real, honest to goodness terrorists.

That's what universities have become.

(full article online)

SFSU professor says that it is Islamophobic to NOT hate Zionists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

An interview with a Palestinian couple, Abu Wajdi and Sara Al-Qassem, who have been married for 75 years, provided a glimpse of Islamic marriage traditions in British Palestine in the 1940s before the establishment of the State of Israel: 



















*Official PA TV host:* "Tell us how did you meet your wife?"
*Palestinian man Abu Wajdi Al-Qassem:* "She is my cousin. She was born abroad and lived [there] with her family. At the time, her father said to everyone: 'When we come to Palestine, this girl is intended for Abu Wajdi Al-Qassem.'"

*(PA TV host):* "How old was she?"

*Palestinian man Abu Wajdi Al-Qassem:* "Right when she was born she was given to me in my absence, but when she came she was 12. (Laughing) She was 12. However, in Islam it is permissible to add years to one's age, so the sheikh at the time gave her 5 years, and she became 17."
[Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Oct. 14, 2017

(full article online)

Child bride of 12 "became 17" to enable marriage, says old Palestinian recalling their wedding - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

We are united on one issue: we cannot abandon the campuses around the world to the propaganda, lies and spreading of hatred all aimed to delegitimize the very existence of the State of Israel.

(full article online)

Carnival of hatred


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bradley Burston of Haaretz is cheering the idea of Palestinians "returning" to Israel (paywalled):

 " Many [IDF] soldiers, in between prayers and calls of duty, silently hoped against hope that ...one day, truly non-violent protest would take the place of interminable, immutable conflict, and drive a wedge into the mechanics of occupation.
I was one of them. And, now that it seems to be happening, this is my confession: I want this to succeed.But the protest isn't against the "occupation." It is against the existence of the Jewish state."



Is Burston that clueless as to the meaning of "194," the UNGA  resolution that Palestinians purposefully misread to give them the unlimited right to overrun Israel, or is he malicious?

(full article online)

Israel building barbed wire fence to stop masses of Gazans from walking into Israel March 30 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

When you complain that the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement discriminates on the basis of national identity, you are nowadays met with a contemptuous sniff. Proponents of an academic boycott insist that individual Israeli academics are not targets; rather, institutional arrangements with Israeli universities—study abroad programs, for example—are. Similarly, the cultural boycott does not target individual Israeli artists, but artists and artistic groups that enjoy some sort of government sponsorship. Look, dummy, they say, our guidelines are crystal clear! This “is a boycott of Israeli cultural institutions, not Israeli individuals.”

In the case of the academic boycott, this distinction between individuals and institutions is paper-thin. Until fairly recently, the U.S. Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel had this to say about its commitment to principle: “In principle, since the call is specifically for institutional, not individual boycott, [activities involving Israeli academics] do not violate the boycott. However, all academic exchanges with Israeli academics do have the effect of normalizing Israel and its politics of occupation and apartheid.” Therefore, “academics could consider whether equally valuable contributions might not be made by non-Israeli colleagues; whether an invitation to a Palestinian intellectual might be preferable; whether the exchange is intellectually or pedagogically essential.” In other words, we’re against boycotting individual Israeli academics, but please see what you can do about boycotting Israeli academics.

Comically, the guidelines explain that individual academics are being boycotted because the movement is decentralized, not because BDS advocates should try to avoid exchanges with Israeli academics despite the fact that they literally just said that was the preferred outcome. “It may also be that as a consequence of the boycott Israeli academics are now having a harder time publishing outside the country, participating in formal exchanges, sitting on boards and international committees, and the like,” the guidelines continued.

These guidelines have quietly disappeared, but their disappearance probably has more to do with their foolish revelation of BDS hypocrisy than a change of heart.

How BDS Encourages Boycotts of Israeli Artists and Academicians


----------



## Sixties Fan

The “Good Old Days” of Terrorism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yes, let's take down the fence and allow the birds of peace to fly. And resume suicide bombings of Israeli buses.

I didn't see any photos of anyone actually running! They are all seemingly strolling around the route.

Notice also that the logo of the marathon erases Israel - not that this bothers the EU partners.

(full article online)

"Palestine Marathon" is purely political. (Are there even any runners?) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Have you ever read a news report about a Palestinian Arab who starved to death? Even one? Of course not, because it never happens. Yet the foreign minister of Sweden is now claiming that the Palestinian Authority must provide salaries to terrorists and their families because otherwise, they will “starve.

(full article online)

Swedish meatballs for Palestinian terrorists


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who are the Palestinians?  Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

I _(agree and)_ think that most people would generally agree with you.  Nothing in today's character of the Arab Palestinians would lead any "Reasonable Man" to believe that the past history of projected threats and action and the separate acts inchoate, or preparatory, to the furtherance of carrying out the threats; was reduced to the level that would not warrant further occupation and allow to relinquish the security in depth.   There is no reason to believe that the unrestrained Arab Palestinians pose any less of a danage today, than they did a half century ago. 



Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, let's take down the fence and allow the birds of peace to fly. And resume suicide bombings of Israeli buses.
> 
> I didn't see any photos of anyone actually running! They are all seemingly strolling around the route.
> 
> Notice also that the logo of the marathon erases Israel - not that this bothers the EU partners.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Palestine Marathon" is purely political. (Are there even any runners?) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

And the entire nature and conduct of the conflict and the pursuit of peace under the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations has compounded the matter in an unfavorable set of situations relative to the demands. What were once concessions possible to give in to Arab Palestinians in exchange for peace, have been over taken by events.  

Where once it was possible for the talks on the matter of reduced reparations, and restitution _(payments made after a war by the vanquished to the victors)_ and the awards of reconstruction and rehabilitation funding and engineerinprojects, have faded away.  Recent experience has shown that "nation building" does not work in that region of the world.   It is now the case that, as is Custormary _(example Turk-Kurd Issue) in that Region over territorial disputes)_ consession will not be favorably considered.  The Arab Palestinian, having been olitically uncooerative over the last 50 years, may have missed their window of opportunity → and end-up walking away with nothing. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

President Mahmoud Abbas has just commenced the 14th year of his 4 year term, having been elected in 2005. He has accumulated personal wealth estimated well in excess of US$100 million. Recently, via the PA, he purchased a private jet costing approximately US$50million. There seems little doubt that these funds have been diverted from the generous foreign aid of Western countries.

Funding this is madness and arguably the worst possible application of Australia’s foreign aid. The total amount and structure of financial incentives paid to terrorists and martyrs is undeniable and has been published in detail. The PA increased the budget for such payments and refuses to suspend the programs.

The educational material under UNRWA includes content which prepares young Palestinians to become terrorists. Australians would be outraged if any of our taxes are being used for incitement and reward of terrorism.

There is also an important moral imperative. Israeli intelligence last year helped Asio prevent a planned jihadist attack on an aircraft. How in all conscience can we provide resources to those who foment terror against Israel?

(full article online)

Aussie tax slayer | The Spectator


----------



## Sixties Fan

Interestingly, the "side" entrance from Egypt to Gaza, the Saladin gate which bypasses Israeli security checks at Kerem Shalom, was opened yesterday and 147 trucks entered with materials including cement. No fuel trucks went through that entrance, however. It appears that Hamas managed to negotiate this with Egypt, bypassing the PA and avoiding paying PA taxes on imports that come through Rafah (while, presumably, Hamas imposes its own taxes at this crossing.)

(full article online)

Gaza power plant shut down, but Israel isn't to blame, so you won't read about it  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The evidence is based on three prisoners who are complaining - one of chest pain and nausea, one of foot pain. The third one is the most interesting:



 Riad al-Amour, a 45-year-old resident of Bethlehem who is sentenced to life imprisonment, is considered to be one of the most serious cases in the Israeli occupation prisons. He suffers from many health problems, including:, the removal of part of the intestines, the part of his liver, the replacement of a heart valve, and his heart only works through a pacemaker, which needs to be replaced, which was given two years ago an open heart surgery..Riad al Amour, a murderer,  received multiple free surgeries courtesy of the Israeli taxpayer - and now the Palestinian Authority is complaining that he is not being taken care of medically.

Amour also participated in a hunger strike while ill a couple of years ago. But any medical condition is Israel's fault.

(Full article online)

Palestinians claim Israel not treating sick prisoners in Ashkelon ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The resolution made no mention of how Palestinian women’s rights are impacted by Hamas, the Palestinian Authority, or their patriarchal society, nor were Palestinian victims of honor killings mentioned.

The resolution that was passed is farcical. Perhaps the funniest part is this:
 Urges the international community to continue to give special attention to the promotion and protection of the human rights of Palestinian women and girls and to intensify its measures to improve the difficult conditions being faced by Palestinian women and their families living under Israeli occupation;
By urging the world to give "special attention" to Palestinian women, they are saying that Palestinian women are more important than all the rest of the women in the world.

But only in terms of things that they can try to blame on Israel

(full article online)

UN Women's Rights Commission as hateful as the rest of the UN ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The real story now is no longer about what the foreign correspondents are reporting related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Rather, it is about what they are _not_ reporting.


In its report -- which so far appears to have been of less than no interest to both the foreign media and international human rights groups -- the Palestinian Independent Commission for Human Rights states that it has received complaints of torture and mistreatment from 46 Palestinians detained by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas during the month of February 2018 alone.


Both Palestinian dictatorships, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, therefore have nothing to worry about; they can go about their business of torturing and illegally detaining their own people. No one is watching.

(full article online)

Palestinians Tortured; Media Silent


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Apparently not one of the Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians forefathers as they tend to brag about.  Who knew?  ]

This is not the first time that vandals, apparently Palestinian Arabs, have desecrated places holy to Jews, including Joseph's tomb, the tomb of Yehoshua (Joshua) Ben-Nun, the graves of the sons of the High Priest Aaron and others, with swastikas.

(full article online)

Watch: Caleb's tomb vandalized with swastikas


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The Palestinian leadership is wrong to think that it can dictate facts on the ground via bypasses and unilateral moves. Instead of ignoring the US and Israel, the Palestinians need to stop supporting terror and incitement," said Danon.

(full article online)

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...membership-of-8-international-treaties-547010


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who are the Palestinians?  Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I _(agree and)_ think that most people would generally agree with you.  Nothing in today's character of the Arab Palestinians would lead any "Reasonable Man" to believe that the past history of projected threats and action and the separate acts inchoate, or preparatory, to the furtherance of carrying out the threats; was reduced to the level that would not warrant further occupation and allow to relinquish the security in depth.   There is no reason to believe that the unrestrained Arab Palestinians pose any less of a danage today, than they did a half century ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, let's take down the fence and allow the birds of peace to fly. And resume suicide bombings of Israeli buses.
> 
> I didn't see any photos of anyone actually running! They are all seemingly strolling around the route.
> 
> Notice also that the logo of the marathon erases Israel - not that this bothers the EU partners.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Palestine Marathon" is purely political. (Are there even any runners?) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And the entire nature and conduct of the conflict and the pursuit of peace under the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations has compounded the matter in an unfavorable set of situations relative to the demands. What were once concessions possible to give in to Arab Palestinians in exchange for peace, have been over taken by events.
> 
> Where once it was possible for the talks on the matter of reduced reparations, and restitution _(payments made after a war by the vanquished to the victors)_ and the awards of reconstruction and rehabilitation funding and engineerinprojects, have faded away.  Recent experience has shown that "nation building" does not work in that region of the world.   It is now the case that, as is Custormary _(example Turk-Kurd Issue) in that Region over territorial disputes)_ consession will not be favorably considered.  The Arab Palestinian, having been olitically uncooerative over the last 50 years, may have missed their window of opportunity → and end-up walking away with nothing.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinian, having been olitically uncooerative over the last 50 years, may have missed their window of opportunity → and end-up walking away with nothing.


Ahh, but the Palestinian's window of opportunity is just opening.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who are the Palestinians?  Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I _(agree and)_ think that most people would generally agree with you.  Nothing in today's character of the Arab Palestinians would lead any "Reasonable Man" to believe that the past history of projected threats and action and the separate acts inchoate, or preparatory, to the furtherance of carrying out the threats; was reduced to the level that would not warrant further occupation and allow to relinquish the security in depth.   There is no reason to believe that the unrestrained Arab Palestinians pose any less of a danage today, than they did a half century ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, let's take down the fence and allow the birds of peace to fly. And resume suicide bombings of Israeli buses.
> 
> I didn't see any photos of anyone actually running! They are all seemingly strolling around the route.
> 
> Notice also that the logo of the marathon erases Israel - not that this bothers the EU partners.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Palestine Marathon" is purely political. (Are there even any runners?) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And the entire nature and conduct of the conflict and the pursuit of peace under the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations has compounded the matter in an unfavorable set of situations relative to the demands. What were once concessions possible to give in to Arab Palestinians in exchange for peace, have been over taken by events.
> 
> Where once it was possible for the talks on the matter of reduced reparations, and restitution _(payments made after a war by the vanquished to the victors)_ and the awards of reconstruction and rehabilitation funding and engineerinprojects, have faded away.  Recent experience has shown that "nation building" does not work in that region of the world.   It is now the case that, as is Custormary _(example Turk-Kurd Issue) in that Region over territorial disputes)_ consession will not be favorably considered.  The Arab Palestinian, having been olitically uncooerative over the last 50 years, may have missed their window of opportunity → and end-up walking away with nothing.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian, having been olitically uncooerative over the last 50 years, may have missed their window of opportunity → and end-up walking away with nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, but the Palestinian's window of opportunity is just opening.
Click to expand...


Typical of the alternate reality you dwell in. The Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Pal’istanians” have none of the coddling from the Arab-islamic world they once had. Israel already has alliances with Egypt and the KSA and grudging acceptance from Lebanon.

Did you miss the part where Egypt has allied with Israel to prevent the Hamas tunnel rats from burrowing across their border?


*BOO
*
Be afraid, Tinmore. Be very afraid.


Saudi Arabia opens airspace to Israel for first time ever


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian finds out he's Jewish (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And just in time for Passover ]

Al-Qawasmi, saying that the Palestinians do not want to turn this into a religious conflict, says that Israel is planning to demolish the Al-Aqsa Mosque "in order to establish the alleged Temple."

These are usually the delusional statements of Hamas or religious clerics. But now the supposedly secular Fatah has officially adopted the lie that Israel is planning to destroy the Al Aqsa mosque.

And the obvious reason it pushes this lie is precisely to incite a religious conflict of (alleged) 1.5 billion Muslims against Israel.

It sounds like incitement to violence to me, but Human Rights Watch hasn't found this to be problematic, and they follow the Middle East very closely, so I must be mistaken.

(full article online)

Abbas' Fatah party says Israel plans to destroy Al Aqsa to build the Third Temple ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Analysis of B’Tselem’s “Minors in Jeopardy” Report


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas held military exercises over the weekend, which included some test launches of Qassam rockets into the Mediterranean that caused Israel's Iron Dome defense system to mistakenly deploy.

Video and photos of the exercises from Hamas websites shows that Hamas' entire exercise is a series of intended war crimes.

The rockets themselves are aimed at civilian population, which is a war crime.

Hamas held much of the exercise in urban areas, even showing tunnels in residential areas, meaning that they intend to use human shields, which is a war crime.

(full article online)

Hamas military drills shows their entire existence is based on war crimes ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

But then it struck me that while reporters usually have lots of shots of "heroic" Palestinian youths throwing stones or using slings, you don't often see photos of them hurling these firebombs.

Which is funny - because they do it all the time.

Shin Bet counted 216 firebomb attacks in December, 121 in February. 
It sure seems like the photojournalists want to give the impression that these "youths" aren't doing anything that could be deadly. The meme of the defiant Palestinian youth would be tarnished if he was shown with explosives.

(full article online)

Why don't we hear about the hundreds of firebombs? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The long-term objective of the event is, in fact, to kill and maim Israelis and damage their property. Hamas and other factions are hoping this will lead to mass waves of violent protest and self-initiated suicide terrorist acts in the West Bank and among Israel’s Arab citizens. Ideally, from the perspective of the Palestinian organizations, it will yield a full-scale intifada.

Even in the best of times, one cannot predict what will happen. The questions of why and how to rebel are studied closely by status quo powers, by rebels and terrorists, and of course by many academics. After a hundred years of study, the triggers of sustained mass waves of violence remain largely a mystery. They do not fit into the neat formulas that characterize the exact sciences.

Israel wants to maintain the status quo in which people go about their lives peacefully. The Palestinian terrorist organizations want to change the status quo. Gaza, after eleven years of Hamas rule, is meant to become another Ghouta, another bloody Baghdad, or even another full-fledged failed Palestinian state.

This project is fraught with difficulty because the Palestinians are divided, even more so after the attempted assassination of Palestinian Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah in Gaza. So divided are they that the major actors – the PA and Fatah on the one hand and Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the other – can’t even agree on the date on which the fence-storming should take place.

Fatah supporters want it to be held on May 14, the date in 1948 on which Ben-Gurion declared the state of Israel and five Arab states invaded it. The Palestinians have appropriated that date for commemoration of the Nakba – the failure of the Palestinians to destroy the state of Israel – and the plight of the refugees, though the exit of Palestinian refugees had little to do with that particular date. Hamas wants to stage the event on March 30, on which many Israeli Arabs commemorate Land Day.

There is a good chance that marches will take place on both dates, and Israel and the Palestinians are preparing assiduously. The Israeli army will do everything it can to thwart the protestors in ways that avoid bloodshed. The Palestinian organizations, from the PLO and the PA downward, want blood to be shed.

Hopefully, Israeli intentions will prevail.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Way of War: The March of Return in Gaza


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> Analysis of B’Tselem’s “Minors in Jeopardy” Report



Aim for the head - New Israel Fund
Ford Foundation


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC WS ‘Newshour’ erases context from revisited Gaza story


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mughrabi's leading a group of male terrorists is "testimony" to gender equality within Fatah, says Abbas' Secretary General 

It is our "educational responsibility" to "return the glory to the fighting Palestinian women such as Dalal Mughrabi," says school principal 

Fatah named another course after murderer Mughrabi

(full article online)

Having female terrorist leaders is proof of gender equality in Fatah, says Abbas' Secretary General - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nixon Faced His Own 9/11: Palestinian Airplane Hijackings (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al-Azhar University calls in forces to break up demonstration over tuition fees; at least five Palestinian students wounded

(full article online)

Hamas police violently suppress Gaza student protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas spokesman says US withholding free money to Palestinian Authority for supporting terror a "declaration of war" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

7.47% of the PA's operational budget is for salaries to terrorist prisoners, released terrorists, and payments to families of "Martyrs" and wounded

- The PA has 2 budget categories rewarding terror; together they equal 44% of anticipated foreign aid 

- New in 2018 Budget: For the first time since 2014, the PA is directly paying the Commission of Prisoners, which pays the salaries to terrorist prisoners; as a result, the PA now fits Israel's criteria to be declared a terror organization

Total PA 2018 operational budget: 16.559 billion shekels ($4.76 billion) 
Salaries to terrorist prisoners: 550 million shekels ($158 million)
Payments to families of "Martyrs" and wounded: 687 million shekels ($197 million)
Total expenditure in budget categories rewarding terror = 1.237 billion shekels ($355 million)
For comparison: PA Ministry of Health which serves the entire population of 5 million has a budget of 1.787 billion shekels, a mere 44% more than 1.237 billion shekels serving the recipients in the two budget categories rewarding terror

(full article online)

PMW Exclusive: PA publishes new budget; continues to defy US and Europe by rewarding terror - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

It’s a shame about all the blood that may be spilled. It’s an irresponsible move by a terror organization that has no scruples about using the residents of Gaza as a “human shield” during a time of war, as it did during Operation Protective Edge in 2014, and wants to use them now as cannon fodder against the IDF on the border.

Hamas is trying to adopt a new strategy of using civilians to fight against Israel. It calls it a “non-violent popular struggle,” similar to Mahmoud Abbas’ strategy in the West Bank, which he refers to as “popular, peaceful resistance.”

Both of these strategies are bound to fail, and they have no bearing on a solution for the problems of the Palestinian people.


(full article online)

The Palestinian “Return March” – A Futile Publicity Stunt


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas spokesman says US withholding free money to Palestinian Authority for supporting terror a "declaration of war" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



You can't make this kind of Palestinian mentality up, can you?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

"Before the Palestinian Authority took control of these territories, about 85% of the population [of Bethlehem] were Christian citizens, and now they are less than 10% because the Palestinians prevent them from applying their faith and [performing] their customs and their prayers..." Dr. Herrera told _Arutz Sheva _near Bethlehem. "Therefore, they fled from here."

He pointed to nearby Beit Jala, which has a predominantly Christian population. "You see Beit Jala. I used to come there and to buy from Christians oil and eggs and we lived in peace with them. And now we cannot go there because they will kill me just for the fact I am a Jew."

"No Jew can live there. We speak about 'Apartheid' in Israel, but there is a law in the Palestinian Authority, that if you are a Jew you cannot be a citizen there. You cannot live there. And the Christians are oppressed there.

He said the Palestinian Authority (PA) accuses Israel of committing the very crimes the PA itself commits. "Saeb Erekat, who belongs to the Fatah committee, said that we oppress the Christians in Israel. We are the only country in which the Christians live in peace and they can have their faith and practice it in all the Middle East."

(full article online)

'Christians flee PA oppression'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> "Before the Palestinian Authority took control of these territories, about 85% of the population [of Bethlehem] were Christian citizens, and now they are less than 10% because the Palestinians prevent them from applying their faith and [performing] their customs and their prayers..." Dr. Herrera told _Arutz Sheva _near Bethlehem. "Therefore, they fled from here."
> 
> He pointed to nearby Beit Jala, which has a predominantly Christian population. "You see Beit Jala. I used to come there and to buy from Christians oil and eggs and we lived in peace with them. And now we cannot go there because they will kill me just for the fact I am a Jew."
> 
> "No Jew can live there. We speak about 'Apartheid' in Israel, but there is a law in the Palestinian Authority, that if you are a Jew you cannot be a citizen there. You cannot live there. And the Christians are oppressed there.
> 
> He said the Palestinian Authority (PA) accuses Israel of committing the very crimes the PA itself commits. "Saeb Erekat, who belongs to the Fatah committee, said that we oppress the Christians in Israel. We are the only country in which the Christians live in peace and they can have their faith and practice it in all the Middle East."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Christians flee PA oppression'


Post a report about Palestinian Christians that is not from a source connected to Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Before the Palestinian Authority took control of these territories, about 85% of the population [of Bethlehem] were Christian citizens, and now they are less than 10% because the Palestinians prevent them from applying their faith and [performing] their customs and their prayers..." Dr. Herrera told _Arutz Sheva _near Bethlehem. "Therefore, they fled from here."
> 
> He pointed to nearby Beit Jala, which has a predominantly Christian population. "You see Beit Jala. I used to come there and to buy from Christians oil and eggs and we lived in peace with them. And now we cannot go there because they will kill me just for the fact I am a Jew."
> 
> "No Jew can live there. We speak about 'Apartheid' in Israel, but there is a law in the Palestinian Authority, that if you are a Jew you cannot be a citizen there. You cannot live there. And the Christians are oppressed there.
> 
> He said the Palestinian Authority (PA) accuses Israel of committing the very crimes the PA itself commits. "Saeb Erekat, who belongs to the Fatah committee, said that we oppress the Christians in Israel. We are the only country in which the Christians live in peace and they can have their faith and practice it in all the Middle East."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Christians flee PA oppression'
> 
> 
> 
> Post a report about Palestinian Christians that is not from a source connected to Israel.
Click to expand...

Ok.  

So, you do not care about the truth and are going to do absolutely nothing to help those Christians.

Noted.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Loyalists of exiled leader Dahlan accuse Abbas of staging crackdown over opposition to his bid to convene the Palestine National Council

(full article online)

PA stages ‘campaign of arrests’ against Fatah dissidents, critics


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Before the Palestinian Authority took control of these territories, about 85% of the population [of Bethlehem] were Christian citizens, and now they are less than 10% because the Palestinians prevent them from applying their faith and [performing] their customs and their prayers..." Dr. Herrera told _Arutz Sheva _near Bethlehem. "Therefore, they fled from here."
> 
> He pointed to nearby Beit Jala, which has a predominantly Christian population. "You see Beit Jala. I used to come there and to buy from Christians oil and eggs and we lived in peace with them. And now we cannot go there because they will kill me just for the fact I am a Jew."
> 
> "No Jew can live there. We speak about 'Apartheid' in Israel, but there is a law in the Palestinian Authority, that if you are a Jew you cannot be a citizen there. You cannot live there. And the Christians are oppressed there.
> 
> He said the Palestinian Authority (PA) accuses Israel of committing the very crimes the PA itself commits. "Saeb Erekat, who belongs to the Fatah committee, said that we oppress the Christians in Israel. We are the only country in which the Christians live in peace and they can have their faith and practice it in all the Middle East."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Christians flee PA oppression'
> 
> 
> 
> Post a report about Palestinian Christians that is not from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok.
> 
> So, you do not care about the truth and are going to do absolutely nothing to help those Christians.
> 
> Noted.
Click to expand...

Nice dodge.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Before the Palestinian Authority took control of these territories, about 85% of the population [of Bethlehem] were Christian citizens, and now they are less than 10% because the Palestinians prevent them from applying their faith and [performing] their customs and their prayers..." Dr. Herrera told _Arutz Sheva _near Bethlehem. "Therefore, they fled from here."
> 
> He pointed to nearby Beit Jala, which has a predominantly Christian population. "You see Beit Jala. I used to come there and to buy from Christians oil and eggs and we lived in peace with them. And now we cannot go there because they will kill me just for the fact I am a Jew."
> 
> "No Jew can live there. We speak about 'Apartheid' in Israel, but there is a law in the Palestinian Authority, that if you are a Jew you cannot be a citizen there. You cannot live there. And the Christians are oppressed there.
> 
> He said the Palestinian Authority (PA) accuses Israel of committing the very crimes the PA itself commits. "Saeb Erekat, who belongs to the Fatah committee, said that we oppress the Christians in Israel. We are the only country in which the Christians live in peace and they can have their faith and practice it in all the Middle East."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Christians flee PA oppression'
> 
> 
> 
> Post a report about Palestinian Christians that is not from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok.
> 
> So, you do not care about the truth and are going to do absolutely nothing to help those Christians.
> 
> Noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice dodge.
Click to expand...

Thanks.  As long as you refuse to use your brain and go find the facts for yourself, you will be getting the facts from those who are there and know what is going on.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Before the Palestinian Authority took control of these territories, about 85% of the population [of Bethlehem] were Christian citizens, and now they are less than 10% because the Palestinians prevent them from applying their faith and [performing] their customs and their prayers..." Dr. Herrera told _Arutz Sheva _near Bethlehem. "Therefore, they fled from here."
> 
> He pointed to nearby Beit Jala, which has a predominantly Christian population. "You see Beit Jala. I used to come there and to buy from Christians oil and eggs and we lived in peace with them. And now we cannot go there because they will kill me just for the fact I am a Jew."
> 
> "No Jew can live there. We speak about 'Apartheid' in Israel, but there is a law in the Palestinian Authority, that if you are a Jew you cannot be a citizen there. You cannot live there. And the Christians are oppressed there.
> 
> He said the Palestinian Authority (PA) accuses Israel of committing the very crimes the PA itself commits. "Saeb Erekat, who belongs to the Fatah committee, said that we oppress the Christians in Israel. We are the only country in which the Christians live in peace and they can have their faith and practice it in all the Middle East."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Christians flee PA oppression'
> 
> 
> 
> Post a report about Palestinian Christians that is not from a source connected to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok.
> 
> So, you do not care about the truth and are going to do absolutely nothing to help those Christians.
> 
> Noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice dodge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks.  As long as you refuse to use your brain and go find the facts for yourself, you will be getting the facts from those who are there and know what is going on.
Click to expand...

You have nothing, huh?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ For the Lazy bum who is too lazy to look things up on "non Israeli" sources, but always plays at being on a winning streak.  It has been posted before but lazy one has to play the "winning!!! "  game  ]

The Jesuit magazine America recently reported that Arab Christians are fleeing in droves from Bethlehem, the hallowed city of Jesus Christ’s birth. In 1990, Christians made up a majority of the city’s residents; today they make up only about 15%. “With thousands more fleeing the city every year,” reports America’s correspondent Jeremy Zipple, “you can’t help but wonder, will there be any Christians left here…in the not too distant future?”

Why are Palestinian Christians Fleeing? - Providence


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ For the Lazy bum who is too lazy to look things up on "non Israeli" sources, but always plays at being on a winning streak.  It has been posted before but lazy one has to play the "winning!!! "  game  ]
> 
> The Jesuit magazine America recently reported that Arab Christians are fleeing in droves from Bethlehem, the hallowed city of Jesus Christ’s birth. In 1990, Christians made up a majority of the city’s residents; today they make up only about 15%. “With thousands more fleeing the city every year,” reports America’s correspondent Jeremy Zipple, “you can’t help but wonder, will there be any Christians left here…in the not too distant future?”
> 
> Why are Palestinian Christians Fleeing? - Providence


*Author: Robert Nicholson*






Robert Nicholson is Founder and Executive Director of The Philos Project. He holds a BA in Hebrew Studies from Binghamton University, and both a JD and MA in Middle Eastern history from Syracuse University. A former U.S. Marine and a 2012-13 *Tikvah Fellow*, Robert founded The Philos Project in 2014. His advocacy focuses on spreading the vision of a multi-ethnic and multi-religious Middle East based on freedom and rule of law. Robert serves on the Board of Directors of Passages, and is a publisher of Providence: A Journal of Christianity and American Foreign Policy. His written work has appeared in First Things, The Federalist, The Jerusalem Post, The Hill, and The American Interest, among others. Follow Robert on Twitter: @rwnicholson_
-----------------

*War & Statesmanship*
Paying special attention to the grand strategy of the United States and Israel, fellowship courses and projects explore both the ethical questions and practical dilemmas that confront statesmen and generals in a world of new technologies and new threats. 
The Tikvah Fellowship - The Tikvah Fund

Source not connected to Israel?

Try again.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ For the Lazy bum who is too lazy to look things up on "non Israeli" sources, but always plays at being on a winning streak.  It has been posted before but lazy one has to play the "winning!!! "  game  ]
> 
> The Jesuit magazine America recently reported that Arab Christians are fleeing in droves from Bethlehem, the hallowed city of Jesus Christ’s birth. In 1990, Christians made up a majority of the city’s residents; today they make up only about 15%. “With thousands more fleeing the city every year,” reports America’s correspondent Jeremy Zipple, “you can’t help but wonder, will there be any Christians left here…in the not too distant future?”
> 
> Why are Palestinian Christians Fleeing? - Providence
> 
> 
> 
> *Author: Robert Nicholson*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Nicholson is Founder and Executive Director of The Philos Project. He holds a BA in Hebrew Studies from Binghamton University, and both a JD and MA in Middle Eastern history from Syracuse University. A former U.S. Marine and a 2012-13 *Tikvah Fellow*, Robert founded The Philos Project in 2014. His advocacy focuses on spreading the vision of a multi-ethnic and multi-religious Middle East based on freedom and rule of law. Robert serves on the Board of Directors of Passages, and is a publisher of Providence: A Journal of Christianity and American Foreign Policy. His written work has appeared in First Things, The Federalist, The Jerusalem Post, The Hill, and The American Interest, among others. Follow Robert on Twitter: @rwnicholson_
> -----------------
> 
> *War & Statesmanship*
> Paying special attention to the grand strategy of the United States and Israel, fellowship courses and projects explore both the ethical questions and practical dilemmas that confront statesmen and generals in a world of new technologies and new threats.
> The Tikvah Fellowship - The Tikvah Fund
> 
> Source not connected to Israel?
> 
> Try again.
Click to expand...

I know you are being a dunce on purpose.  
Either that or you live in a cave so deep that no news ever comes to you or is acceptable. "The Skye Is Falling".

The information is factual.

Before Oslo, Bethlehem was 85% Christian Arabs.
Post Oslo signing, Bethlehem became 15 % Christian Arabs.


Deny it all you want, you do not live in Bethlehem, and you know absolutely nothing as to what happens over there.

You are not going to change those facts no matter who you attempt to discredit.

Go on with your WINNING !!!!!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ For the Lazy bum who is too lazy to look things up on "non Israeli" sources, but always plays at being on a winning streak.  It has been posted before but lazy one has to play the "winning!!! "  game  ]
> 
> The Jesuit magazine America recently reported that Arab Christians are fleeing in droves from Bethlehem, the hallowed city of Jesus Christ’s birth. In 1990, Christians made up a majority of the city’s residents; today they make up only about 15%. “With thousands more fleeing the city every year,” reports America’s correspondent Jeremy Zipple, “you can’t help but wonder, will there be any Christians left here…in the not too distant future?”
> 
> Why are Palestinian Christians Fleeing? - Providence
> 
> 
> 
> *Author: Robert Nicholson*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Nicholson is Founder and Executive Director of The Philos Project. He holds a BA in Hebrew Studies from Binghamton University, and both a JD and MA in Middle Eastern history from Syracuse University. A former U.S. Marine and a 2012-13 *Tikvah Fellow*, Robert founded The Philos Project in 2014. His advocacy focuses on spreading the vision of a multi-ethnic and multi-religious Middle East based on freedom and rule of law. Robert serves on the Board of Directors of Passages, and is a publisher of Providence: A Journal of Christianity and American Foreign Policy. His written work has appeared in First Things, The Federalist, The Jerusalem Post, The Hill, and The American Interest, among others. Follow Robert on Twitter: @rwnicholson_
> -----------------
> 
> *War & Statesmanship*
> Paying special attention to the grand strategy of the United States and Israel, fellowship courses and projects explore both the ethical questions and practical dilemmas that confront statesmen and generals in a world of new technologies and new threats.
> The Tikvah Fellowship - The Tikvah Fund
> 
> Source not connected to Israel?
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know you are being a dunce on purpose.
> Either that or you live in a cave so deep that no news ever comes to you or is acceptable. "The Skye Is Falling".
> 
> The information is factual.
> 
> Before Oslo, Bethlehem was 85% Christian Arabs.
> Post Oslo signing, Bethlehem became 15 % Christian Arabs.
> 
> 
> Deny it all you want, you do not live in Bethlehem, and you know absolutely nothing as to what happens over there.
> 
> You are not going to change those facts no matter who you attempt to discredit.
> 
> Go on with your WINNING !!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Many of my Messianic Jewish friends in Israel are actively involved with reconciliation movements with their Arab Christian brothers — in the Land and beyond — yet they do not participate in Christ at the Checkpoint. Why? It is because they see no genuine attempt to reconcile and understand but only to bash and criticize Israel and to reject God’s eternal promises to the Jewish people.

One of your recent Facebook posts reads:

If the creation of the state of Israel is a sign of God’s faithfulness to the Jewish people, then what kind of sign is it to the Palestinian people? When the state of Israel was created, around 700,000 Palestinians became refugees and more than 500 Palestinian towns and villages were completely destroyed. How am I supposed to understand that? Furthermore, this year marks 50 years of the Israeli military occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza. So am I supposed to believe that the state that is oppressing me and my people is in covenant with God today?

Why not mention that 800,000 Jews were expelled from surrounding Arab and Muslim lands and largely absorbed by the fledgling state of Israel, which was fighting for its very life? (And this, just a few years after the Holocaust.) Why not mention all the Jewish attempts to get the local Arabs _not_ to flee but rather remain as neighbors and co-workers?

Why not mention the refusal of the Arab leadership to accept a two-state solution in the 1930s and then in 1947? Why not mention that, rather than accept the partitioning of the land, the Arab leadership declared that the Jews would be driven into the sea, urging the local Arab populace to flee their homes until the expected victory came?

Why not mention Resolution 1547 of Arab League (in 1959), stating that none of the league nations would allow Palestinians to become citizens? Why not mention the widespread mistreatment of Palestinian refugees to this day in surrounding Arab and Muslim lands? (Why, for that matter, are there sill Palestinian refugee camps in countries like Syria and Lebanon?)

(full article online)

An Open Appeal to the Leaders of Christ at the Checkpoint | The Stream


----------



## Sixties Fan

Many of my Messianic Jewish friends in Israel are actively involved with reconciliation movements with their Arab Christian brothers — in the Land and beyond — yet they do not participate in Christ at the Checkpoint. Why? It is because they see no genuine attempt to reconcile and understand but only to bash and criticize Israel and to reject God’s eternal promises to the Jewish people.

One of your recent Facebook posts reads:

If the creation of the state of Israel is a sign of God’s faithfulness to the Jewish people, then what kind of sign is it to the Palestinian people? When the state of Israel was created, around 700,000 Palestinians became refugees and more than 500 Palestinian towns and villages were completely destroyed. How am I supposed to understand that? Furthermore, this year marks 50 years of the Israeli military occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza. So am I supposed to believe that the state that is oppressing me and my people is in covenant with God today?

Why not mention that 800,000 Jews were expelled from surrounding Arab and Muslim lands and largely absorbed by the fledgling state of Israel, which was fighting for its very life? (And this, just a few years after the Holocaust.) Why not mention all the Jewish attempts to get the local Arabs _not_ to flee but rather remain as neighbors and co-workers?

Why not mention the refusal of the Arab leadership to accept a two-state solution in the 1930s and then in 1947? Why not mention that, rather than accept the partitioning of the land, the Arab leadership declared that the Jews would be driven into the sea, urging the local Arab populace to flee their homes until the expected victory came?

Why not mention Resolution 1547 of Arab League (in 1959), stating that none of the league nations would allow Palestinians to become citizens? Why not mention the widespread mistreatment of Palestinian refugees to this day in surrounding Arab and Muslim lands? (Why, for that matter, are there sill Palestinian refugee camps in countries like Syria and Lebanon?)

(full article online)

An Open Appeal to the Leaders of Christ at the Checkpoint | The Stream


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
*Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:


“If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
“Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
“The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
“I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
“Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
(full article online)

Christ at the Checkpoint


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nevertheless, the language of the manifesto clearly paints the Palestinians as victims and Israel as the aggressor. “There are real injustices taking place in the Palestinian territories and the suffering of the Palestinian people can no longer be ignored,” the manifesto states.

Additionally, Sami Awad, a Palestinian Christian and executive director of the Holy Land Trust, has made several controversial statements about Israel, according to NGO Monitor. In 2007, despite the Holy Land Trust’s stated commitment to non-violence, Awad said that non-violent demonstrations are “not a substitute for the armed struggle.”

Conference participants will also be able to attend several field trips organized by the Holy Land Trust that are intended to “give the participants a better understanding on how the conflict affects the daily lives of Palestinians.”

These trips include visits to the “segregation wall” in Bethlehem, a tour of Hebron that includes a visit to “Israeli settler strongholds,” a visit to a local Palestinian family “living under siege,” and a trip to “East Jerusalem” that explores the controversial neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah.

“CATC does not promote peace and reconciliation, despite their claims,” Santis said. “Speakers at past conferences have made bigoted statements against Jews and Judaism, spouting replacement theology and even a racial theory of Jewish origins.”

“Taxpayers should not be enabling such an inflammatory program,” he said.

(full article online)

NGO Monitor: U.S., U.K., Netherlands fund anti-Israel ‘Christ at the Checkpoint’ conference


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Jesus Was a Palestinian': The Return of Christian Anti-Semitism - Commentary Magazine


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
> Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
> CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
> Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> *Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:
> 
> 
> “If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
> “Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
> “The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
> “I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
> “Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
> (full article online)
> 
> Christ at the Checkpoint


OK, so?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
> Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
> CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
> Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> *Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:
> 
> 
> “If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
> “Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
> “The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
> “I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
> “Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
> (full article online)
> 
> Christ at the Checkpoint
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
Click to expand...


Don't You think antisemitism must be confronted?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
> Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
> CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
> Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> *Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:
> 
> 
> “If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
> “Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
> “The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
> “I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
> “Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
> (full article online)
> 
> Christ at the Checkpoint
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You think antisemitism must be confronted?
Click to expand...

Sure, but not that fake stuff that Israel is always pimping.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
> Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
> CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
> Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> *Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:
> 
> 
> “If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
> “Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
> “The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
> “I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
> “Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
> (full article online)
> 
> Christ at the Checkpoint
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You think antisemitism must be confronted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, but not that fake stuff that Israel is always pimping.
Click to expand...


Let me understand, it's fake because was merely presented by Israel or because the report was nonfactual?

There's a clear self contradiction and double standards in what was quoted.
Throwing genetics in the mix to deny rights to Jews, leaves no doubt about the nature of such rhetorics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
> Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
> CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
> Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> *Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:
> 
> 
> “If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
> “Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
> “The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
> “I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
> “Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
> (full article online)
> 
> Christ at the Checkpoint
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You think antisemitism must be confronted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, but not that fake stuff that Israel is always pimping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me understand, it's fake because was merely presented by Israel or because the report was nonfactual?
> 
> There's a clear self contradiction and double standards in what was quoted.
> Throwing genetics in the mix to deny rights to Jews, leaves no doubt about the nature of such rhetorics.
Click to expand...

Israel and its toadies around the world try to conflate criticism of Israeli state policies with antisemitism. Of course these are unrelated. Israel uses antisemitism as a ploy to shut people up who criticize Israel. This is fake antisemitism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sadly, such murders did not dampen the Jewish left’s campaign for an Israeli surrender of Gaza. On the contrary, their campaign intensified. Only instead of the old slogans about “coexistence,” the left adopted a new mantra: separation. The Israeli presence in Gaza would mean endless casualties, they argued. Israel should withdraw for its own good.

All the Arabs in Gaza wanted was to be rid of Israelis, the left insisted; if Israel withdrew, there would be peace. After all, they argued, why should Gaza’s Arabs be interested in conquering Sderot, Beersheva or Ashkelon? That wouldn’t make any sense. Many weary Israelis accepted that logic, including Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. He withdrew Israel’s forces from every inch of Gaza. He bulldozed every Jewish town in the area.

Lo and behold, peace did not reign. Instead, thousands of rockets from Gaza rained down on Israel. Palestinian terrorists went on trying to infiltrate Israel in order to slaughter Jews in Sderot, Beersheva and Ashkelon. And the international news media continues to downplay Palestinian violence.

Those three little terrorists who crossed into Israel from Gaza this week were nothing to worry about, according to the media and the left. But everything that has happened regarding Gaza throughout the past 30 years proves that reality is exactly the opposite of what they tell us.

(full article online)

‘Three little terrorists’ represent all that’s gone wrong in 30 years


----------



## Sixties Fan

The former employee told me that when she got in trouble for her completely accurate post about Tamimi, she told her supervisor that many GIZ employees post horrible things about Israel all the time. Her country director replied it's a security issue...saying anything pro-Israel could upset the Jordanians and therefore puts all GIZ employees at risk.

However, the security of the employee who was vilified for a pro-Israel post was not a concern. She was the one called to the carpet for her actions. Her original comments were in a private Facebook group, a Jordanian reported it publicly, putting her in danger. Instead of showing concern for her, GIZ complained about her post in a private group!

But virulently anti-Israel posts? That's just fine! (Even though they also violate GIZ guidelines, where they are told not to say anything political on social media.)

She also told me that these are not isolated cases, and not only on social media. "You have people on the level of regional director for MENA, who have not only 1 but 3 public Facebook accounts with their picture and reference to GIZ, that are entirely dedicated to spreading anti Israel hate," she says.  She emphasized that they say these things in person as well. And it is reflected in their policies, in who they choose to partner with and fund, and who knows how many other decisions.

(full article online)

German gov't allows employees to post anti-Israel memes - but fires one who defends Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  On Islamic Holidays, the Muslims attack Israel and Jews.  On Jewish Holidays, Muslims attack Israel and Jews  ]

On Thursday, Ambassador Danon penned a letter to the UN Secretary-General and the UN Security Council regarding the perils of the planned demonstrations.

“I write to inform you of a dangerous effort by Palestinian leaders to create conflict by orchestrating a series of mass confrontations, specifically on the security fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel, to occur between March 30 and May 15,” wrote Danon. 

“While the Palestinians are attempting to present these demonstrations as acts of ‘peaceful resistance,’ Hamas has invested approximately 10 million USD into this confrontation campaign and will pay Gazans to participate.”

Danon added that “Hamas’ provocative actions to ignite violence serve only to distract the world from the terror organization's disastrous hegemony that has resulted in a deteriorating situation in Gaza… Simultaneously, the Palestinian Authority continues to suspend payments for electricity and salaries in Gaza and has threatened additional sanctions. Israel, on the other hand, continues to provide electrical power, water and the entry of goods into Gaza in coordination with international parties, and accommodates Gazans seeking to enter Israel for medical treatment.”

“In light of the Palestinians’ organized planned provocation for the coming weeks, I reiterate Israel’s right to defend its sovereignty and protect its citizens… Israel condemns the Palestinian leadership’s dangerous attempt to inflame tensions and instigate violence and expects all United Nations personnel to refrain from planning, supporting or participating in these activities,” Danon concluded.

(full article online)

Danon warns UN over Gaza protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is what Hamas chooses to give money to the Palestinian Arabs
And Gaza which has water issues..... ]

Water facilities are being installed and medical teams deployed to allow people to stay for long periods.

Organizers say tens of thousands of people would attend Friday’s protest, although it was not clear how the estimate was reached.

Senior Hamas figure Salah Bardawil says that while protesters might breach the border, they were not planning to do so.

Hamas officials say they will monitor the area beyond the camp sites to prevent protesters going too close to the frontier, at least during the initial days of the protest.

(full article online)

Gazans start pitching tents on Israel’s border ahead of mass protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has failed because it is caught between two irreconcilable principles: establishing a modern, functioning state that provides for its citizens while at the same time maintaining a perpetual state of war against the Jewish State. Neither the PLO’s nationalist ideology nor Hamas’s religious nationalism have served the interests of the Palestinian people. Only emirates based on local clans can operate legitimately in the Palestinian-controlled territories.

(full article online)

Hamas Is an Abysmal Failure


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2012 conference coincided with “Israel Apartheid Week” and included representatives of World Vision, Christian Aid, and World Council of Churches (WCC); the latter two play key roles in mobilizing the church BDS effort globally.
> Employs rhetoric accusing Israel of “ethnic cleansing,” erecting an “apartheid wall,” and enacting a “crucifixion system” against the Palestinians.
> CATC regularly features and interviews Micha Kurz in its videos and promotional materials; Kurz was a co-founder of Breaking the Silence as well as Grassroots Jerusalem, and is active in other groups including ICAHD and Ta’ayush.
> Partners with pro-Palestinian activists within mainline churches promoting BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) campaigns, “one-state” frameworks, and the Palestinian claim to a “right of return,” meaning the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> *Examples of Antisemitism at Christ at the Checkpoint conferences*:
> 
> 
> “If God wanted the Jews to have the land (the land that belongs to my family) over my people’s dead bodies, destroyed homes and uprooted olive trees, I didn’t want that God anymore! I was confused between my Christianity and my feelings of patriotism–until Christ at the Checkpoint conference came to life.” ( “A young Palestinian Christian’s voice,” 2016)
> “Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.” (David Neuhaus, Latin Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel and Coordinator of the Pastoral among Migrants and Asylum Seekers in Israel, 2016)
> “The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.” (Rev Stephen Sizer, 2010)
> “I’m sure if we were to do a DNA test between David, who was a Bethlehemite, and Jesus, born in Bethlehem, and Mitri, born just across the street from where Jesus was born, I’m sure the DNA will show that there is a trace. While, if you put King David, Jesus and Netanyahu, you will get nothing, because Netanyahu comes from an East European tribe who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.” (Mitri Raheb, 2010)
> “Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.” (Naim Ateek, founder of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, 2010)
> (full article online)
> 
> Christ at the Checkpoint
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You think antisemitism must be confronted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, but not that fake stuff that Israel is always pimping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me understand, it's fake because was merely presented by Israel or because the report was nonfactual?
> 
> There's a clear self contradiction and double standards in what was quoted.
> Throwing genetics in the mix to deny rights to Jews, leaves no doubt about the nature of such rhetorics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and its toadies around the world try to conflate criticism of Israeli state policies with antisemitism. Of course these are unrelated. Israel uses antisemitism as a ploy to shut people up who criticize Israel. This is fake antisemitism.
Click to expand...

There wasn't any policy mentioned.
It was merely theology mixed with blood purity ideas to deny Jews their rights.
Of course the "ploy" rhetoric is in itself an old antisemitic libel. Badly masked I must say.

Listening to You Israel is to blame for Arab or Christian millenia-old antisemitism.

Will You even acknowledge it as a problem, or is it just automatic denial?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel and its toadies around the world try to conflate criticism of Israeli state policies with antisemitism. Of course these are unrelated. Israel uses antisemitism as a ploy to shut people up who criticize Israel. This is fake antisemitism.



Oh please.  These are examples of valid criticism of Israeli state policies?

_Jewish extremism is alive and well in two ways, [] through Jewish religion and Jewish nationalism. First, Judaism is not unique in the idea that ‘God is on my side,’……. Israeli Zionism is an iteration of extremist ideology that blends human exclusivism with divine approval.”

The promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph are therefore now fulfilled only through those who follow Jesus Christ since they alone are designated the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews who reject Jesus Christ are outside the covenant of grace and are to be regarded as children of Hagar.”

“Jesus was a Palestinian who lived in Palestine… Jesus was a Palestinian who was born under occupation. Jesus lived under occupation. Everything he taught, everything he said was done under occupation, exactly the way we live today.”_


Calling Judaism and Jewish nationalism extremism is NOT a valid criticism of an Israeli state policy.  Comparing the Roman occupation of Judea (home of the Jewish people) to the return of the Jewish people and claiming the Jewish people to be occupiers is NOT a valid criticism of an Israeli state policy.  Claiming that rejection of JC negates Jewish rights to the Jewish homeland is NOT a valid criticism of an Israeli state policy.

Antisemitism pure and simple.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Most people would recognize someone murdering a Jew because of his kippah to be antisemitic.

But when a Palestinian Arab does it, suddenly it is a nationalist and patriotic act. If they have any Jew-hating tendencies, well, it's understandable.

Funny how that works.

(full article online)

Is it antisemitic to murder a Jew because of his kippah? Or "anti-Israel"? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video

Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries


No he didn't. That is a lie.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore inability to respond about antisemitism, other than exclusively using it to blame Jews themselves - suggests nothing but antisemitism.

And You don't even try to hide it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
Click to expand...


Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.


TV7 Israel News

1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
Click to expand...

So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.

Priceless.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
Click to expand...


What did he say then?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did he say then?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
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> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...


So you retreat to your usual whining. Typical.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did he say then?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

What do you think the US Congress/Senate saw in order to pass those laws?

Thin air?

Next time you speak to Abbas, say Shalom for us.

Although all he will say is "Death to the Jews"  
And how happy he is for the life of luxury afforded to him since the Oslo Accords.   
His own Plane.

Now, THAT is luxury.


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did he say then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you think the US Congress/Senate saw in order to pass those laws?
> 
> Thin air?
> 
> Next time you speak to Abbas, say Shalom for us.
> 
> Although all he will say is "Death to the Jews"
> And how happy he is for the life of luxury afforded to him since the Oslo Accords.
> His own Plane.
> 
> Now, THAT is luxury.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> What do you think the US Congress/Senate saw in order to pass those laws?


AIPAC money.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> rylah said:
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> Hollie said:
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> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did he say then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you think the US Congress/Senate saw in order to pass those laws?
> 
> Thin air?
> 
> Next time you speak to Abbas, say Shalom for us.
> 
> Although all he will say is "Death to the Jews"
> And how happy he is for the life of luxury afforded to him since the Oslo Accords.
> His own Plane.
> 
> Now, THAT is luxury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think the US Congress/Senate saw in order to pass those laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC money.
Click to expand...

Link


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shirley, you must be retreating to your usual conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> TV7 Israel News
> 
> 1) The Palestinian Authority has decided to return to direct-financing of security prisoners incarcerated in Israeli jails for terror related offences, as well as families of Palestinian assailants that have been killed during acts of terror against Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you quote an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries - Video
> 
> Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did he say then?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Had nothing huh? 
Won't be able to refute that either :


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## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't. That is a lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did he say then?
Click to expand...


He said "martyrs".  Martyrs are not terrorists.  Martyrs are heroes.  The fact that they kill Jews is what makes them heroes and not terrorists.  Of course, it is just fine to pay the salaries of heroes.


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## Sixties Fan

In 119 characters, she dismissed ample empirical evidence and credible testimony of Hamas intimidation as an “Israeli narrative,” now also adhered to by the FPA, and instead gave us the Palestinian narrative as news.

In other words, the real nonsense comes across as the reporter’s voice, and the accurate assessment comes across as Israeli narrative nonsense.

So consistently did the media pass on this narrative that Hamas actually based its war strategy on their cooperation. As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh gloated in 2014, Palestinian sources “constituted the river from which the global media quenched its thirst for information about what was happening.”

Okay. Under the gun, journalists say what the bullies want them to say. But what about the rest of the time? What about when they’re not in Gaza, but in Washington or New York or London? Don’t they then give us reliable information? Don’t they then behave like real journalists? Apparently not.

(full article online)

Middle east pack journalism: Everybody agrees


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## Sixties Fan

However, in early January, Israel’s Military Police launched an investigation into Abu Thuraya’s death, the conclusions of which were reported yesterday in the Israeli media.  According to Ynet, the probe concluded that the double amputee was not killed by Israeli soldiers, and that sniper fire was halted at least an hour before Palestinians say Ibrahim Abu Thuraya was shot.  (The investigation also found Abu Thuraya bid farewell to his family as a ‘shahid’ the night before his death, which raises other serious questions about what exactly occurred that day.)

Moreover, IDF officials have noted an increased use, by Hamas, of disabled Palestinians, including people in wheelchairs, at such protests, often positioned in the centers of friction for the sole purpose of scoring public relations victories if they’re injured. 

Thus far, no British media outlet has reported on the Military Police findings, and we will continue to monitor such sites to see if the Military Police’s conclusions are even noted in subsequent articles about the incident.

Of course, the broader take-away is the media’s perplexing credulity in the face of unsubstantiated claims of a proscribed terror group, and the failure of professional journalists to seriously examine the incident or ask the most intuitive probing questions of both Gaza officials and eye witnesses.

(full article online)

Will media report on investigation’s conclusion that Ibrahim Abu Thuraya was NOT killed by IDF snipers?


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## Sixties Fan

OK, let's look at Article 81 of the Fourth Geneva Convention:

 Art. 81. Parties to the conflict who intern protected persons shall be bound to provide free of charge for their maintenance, and to grant them also the medical attention required by their state of health.

No deduction from the allowances, salaries or credits due to the internees shall be made for the repayment of these costs.

The Detaining Power shall provide for the support of those dependent on the internees, if such dependents are without adequate means of support or are unable to earn a living.

This is not about prisoners. It is about people who are internment camps for whatever (security) reason the occupying power decides to place them there. The Conventions make this clear, as it talks about entire families should be kept together in internment. it distinguishes between internment and imprisonment, which is what happens after conviction for crimes. 

Beyond that, the Palestinians are obviously not paying the prisoners and their families a normal social security expense, but an additional salary based purely on their status as terrorists, on a sliding scale based on how heinous their acts were.

(full article online)

Erekat ludicrously claims paying terrorists is mandatory under international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

If the goal is two states, then why do the Palestinians keep talking about “return?”

(full article online)

The ‘March of Return’ explains a lot


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## Sixties Fan

[  When the truth comes out of Palestinian Muslim Arabs.  "All of Palestine, which includes ALL of Israel.  Nothing more, nothing less ]

The military said protesters were burning tires and throwing rocks at the soldiers on the other side of the security fence.

Israeli officials repeatedly warned Palestinians not to approach the security fence during the protests through social media, leaflets dropped from airplanes and statements to news outlets.

Hamas leaders had said in the past few days that the protests would be “peaceful” and “non-violent.” However, they also warned that Palestinians will not sit idly by if Israel used force to disperse the protesters.

A statement issued by Hamas, a terror group that seeks to destroy Israel, on Thursday called on Palestinians “to effectively take part in the Great March of Return and remain peaceful to achieve the objective of this event.”

Khalil al Haya, a senior Hamas official, said that the Palestinians were not afraid of Israel’s threats to stop the demonstrators from approaching the border.

The Palestinians are determined to return to their lands and homeland, Haya said, during a tour of tents set up by the protesters near the border with Israel. The Palestinians refer to the tents as the “Tents of Return.”

“Our people will not be intimidated by the Israeli threats,” he said. “We have waited for too long to return to the lands from which our grandparents were expelled 70 years ago.”

(full article online)

Hamas leader: Protests mark the beginning of our return to ‘all of Palestine’


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## Sixties Fan

*Update 2:00 PM:* IDF estimates 17,000 Gazans have gathered by the border fence in 5 staging areas.

5 Gazans have been killed and 150 have been wounded after approaching the fence to damage it. At least one was trying to plant a bomb along the fence.

*2:57 PM:* Hamas sent a 7-year-old girl to rush the fence. IDF forces identified the child coming at them and made sure she got back safely to her parents.

Arab media reports 7 dead Gazans.

*3:13 PM* 20,000 Gazans are along the fence. A few hundred have been wounded during violent demonstrations.

(full article online)

Hundreds Injured, 7 Dead as Thousands Demonstrate in Six Locations by Gaza Border Fence


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## Sixties Fan

[ When Muslims say they are going to do a Peaceful Protest, this is what them mean  ]

The Israel Defense Forces said it targeted three sites belonging to Hamas with tanks and from the air. There were no immediate reports of injuries from the attack, which came as the death toll in clashes along the border rose to 12, according to the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry.

The reprisal attack came after troops were shot at by two Gazans approaching the security fence. No Israeli troops were hurt in the exchange, the IDF said.

Gazan sources said at least 12 people were killed and over 1,000 more injured in the fighting. The army said protesters hurled firebombs and stones at troops and burned tires. Many of the injuries came from rubber bullets and tear gas inhalation, though the IDF used live ammunition as well.

The shooting attack, which came as the darkness fell Friday, came shortly after an army official said troops would remain deployed along the border amid fears of persistent attacks.

(full article online)

Israel hits Hamas sites with tanks, jets after Gazans fire on troops


----------



## Sixties Fan

After Gaza clashes, Hamas, Islamic Jihad say they foiled Trump


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Lebanese Armed Forces dispersed dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators that had converged toward Israel’s northern border Friday in solidarity with the March of Return protest taking place en masse in the Gaza Strip.

Carrying Palestinian flags, the protesters had been heading toward the border fence near the Israeli town of Avivim. Lebanese soldiers managed to disperse them near the village of Maroun al Ras, some two kilometers before they reached the fence, Israel’s Channel 10 reported.

(full article online)

Lebanese army disperses Palestinian solidarity protest near Israel border


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is Islam.  This are the Arabs.  These are the Palestinians . The end result.....what they could not achieve in 1948.  Death to all Jews and the destruction of Israel ]

In Jabaliya, tens of thousands had gathered close to the border when Sinwar arrived. Sinwar doesn’t give many speeches and, in recent weeks, hadn’t even been seen much in public. But on Friday, he was outspoken, warning Israel that “The March of Return will continue… until we remove this transient border,” that it marked “a new phase in the Palestinian national struggle on the road to liberation.*” And rather than go hungry, he declared, the people of the Gaza Strip will “eat the livers of those besieging” them.*

Abbas also initiated an emergency debate at the UN Security Council, where hypocrisy prevailed, needless to say. Civilians are being massacred in Syria by the day, and the international community insistently looks the other way. In this respect, nobody outscores Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Even as his forces are carrying out ethnic cleansing in the northern Syria Kurdish area of Afrin, Erdogan was demanding an investigation into IDF violence on the Gaza border.

(full article online)

Hamas ‘success’ on Friday presages more protests, more deaths, in more places


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli military said Saturday that if violence drags on along the Gaza border, Israel will expand its reaction to strike the terrorists behind it.

IDF Spokesman Brig. Gen. Ronen Manelis said the military has thus far restricted its response to those trying to breach its border, but if attacks continue it will go after terrorists “in other places, too.”

(full article online)

Israel says it will expand response if Gaza clashes go on


----------



## Sixties Fan

Just in case anybody forgot, Israel unilaterally withdraw from the Gaza Strip to the pre-1967 lines in 2005. It uprooted thousands of Israeli settlers from their homes. It dismantled all military infrastructure in the Strip. It has no physical presence there. It makes no territorial claims there.

Just in case anybody forgot, Hamas, an Islamist terrorist organization that avowedly seeks the destruction of Israel, seized power in Gaza in 2007 in a violent takeover from the forces of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

Just in case anybody forgot, Hamas has cynically and relentlessly exploited Gazans — a large proportion of whom have supported it in elections — by storing its rockets near or even inside mosques and schools, firing rockets from residential areas, and digging tunnels from beneath homes and civilian institutions. It has subverted all materials that can be utilized for the manufacture of weaponry, necessitating a stringent Israeli security blockade whose main victims are ordinary Gazans.

So, finally, just in case anybody forget the context for Friday’s latest escalation of violence, they need only listen to Hamas’s Gaza chief Yahya Sinwar setting out the ultimate goal.  As he put it in an address to Gazans at the border on Friday, “The March of Return will continue… until we remove this transient border.” The protests “mark the beginning of a new phase in the Palestinian national struggle on the road to liberation and ‘return’… Our people can’t give up one inch of the land of Palestine.”

(full article online)

Just in case anybody forgot what Hamas’s ‘March of Return’ is really all about


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Just in case anybody forgot, Israel unilaterally withdraw from the Gaza Strip to the pre-1967 lines in 2005. It uprooted thousands of Israeli settlers from their homes. It dismantled all military infrastructure in the Strip. It has no physical presence there. It makes no territorial claims there.
> 
> Just in case anybody forgot, Hamas, an Islamist terrorist organization that avowedly seeks the destruction of Israel, seized power in Gaza in 2007 in a violent takeover from the forces of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> Just in case anybody forgot, Hamas has cynically and relentlessly exploited Gazans — a large proportion of whom have supported it in elections — by storing its rockets near or even inside mosques and schools, firing rockets from residential areas, and digging tunnels from beneath homes and civilian institutions. It has subverted all materials that can be utilized for the manufacture of weaponry, necessitating a stringent Israeli security blockade whose main victims are ordinary Gazans.
> 
> So, finally, just in case anybody forget the context for Friday’s latest escalation of violence, they need only listen to Hamas’s Gaza chief Yahya Sinwar setting out the ultimate goal.  As he put it in an address to Gazans at the border on Friday, “The March of Return will continue… until we remove this transient border.” The protests “mark the beginning of a new phase in the Palestinian national struggle on the road to liberation and ‘return’… Our people can’t give up one inch of the land of Palestine.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Just in case anybody forgot what Hamas’s ‘March of Return’ is really all about



 “The March of Return will continue....”

“....will continue without the participation of the Hamas leadership”.

Very convenient for the Hamas spokesbeards and leadership to make pronouncements from the safety of their luxury condos.

The expendable minions will mindlessly obey.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ As Hamas said it, it was to be a peaceful demonstration. But on the day of the demonstration, Hamas leaders were there inciting and giving the people their blessing to destroy the fence.
Any other country would have shot most of the people coming to the fence, just ask Turkey ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Are there Arabs who like Israel? The answer is a resounding yes


----------



## Sixties Fan

Everything you need to know about the Gaza riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

Army publishes list of names, positions of men shot dead during violence at the security fence; Hamas acknowledges that five of them were gunmen from its military wing

*


*
Fatalities from the March 30 violence on the Israel-Gaza border identified by the IDF as members of terror groups. (Israel Defense Forces)

The Israeli military on Saturday night identified 10 of the 16 people reported killed during violent protests along the Gaza security fence as members of Palestinian terrorist groups, and published a list of their names and positions in the organizations.* 
*


(full article online)

IDF: At least 10 of the 16 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Oh, No!!!!  Say it isn't so..... sniff   ]


The Palestinians on Saturday expressed outrage and disappointment over the UN Security Council’s failure to issue a resolution condemning Israel for the deaths and injuries during Friday’s mass protests along the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel.

The Palestinian Authority blamed the US and Britain for obstructing the Palestinian and Arab effort to persuade the Security Council to issue a resolution blasting Israel for the 16 Palestinian fatalities.

(full article online)

Palestinians rage at US, UK after failed bid to condemn Israel at UN


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  UNWRA tells the truth.  The "Palestinians" are referred to as Arabs and not Palestinians. ]

Head of UNRWA workers' union says *Arab *"right of return" must be extracted by force.

(full article online)

UNRWA official: 'Right of return' will be achieved by force


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  UNWRA tells the truth.  The "Palestinians" are referred to as Arabs and not Palestinians. ]

Head of UNRWA workers' union says *Arab *"right of return" must be extracted by force.

 (full article online)

UNRWA official: 'Right of return' will be achieved by force


----------



## Sixties Fan

During the Passover weekend, some 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza approached the border with Israel and carried out a variety of violent activities in what they call the “Land Day Protests” or the “March of Return.”

We’ve seen quite a bit of mishandled coverage, so here are the main *myths and facts* so you can better understand the situation and also speak up when you see inaccurate or biased media.

(full article online)

Myths and Facts: Gaza's Deadly "Protests" | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli, Palestinian Doctors Work Together to Save Baby with Heart Defect


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins “fundamentalist Christians  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gaza surprised Israel with "something new"  ????  ]

Former Hamas politburo chief Khaled Mashaal says the terror group has more in store for Israel in upcoming confrontations on the Gaza border.

“We will not give up the right of return. Gaza surprised Israel with something new, and we have more surprises,” he says from Turkey.

In Gaza City, current Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh says he’s proud of the “children of Palestine” who participated in Friday’s events.

(full article online)

Former Hamas head says group has more ‘surprises’ for Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Keep the people unemployed and desperate and then use them to attack Israel.  Nice plan.  But what will be Israel's move.  That, they do not know.  Are they prepared?  ]

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar on Sunday warned that the unemployed of Gaza would continue to clash with Israeli forces following the riots at the Israel-Gaza borderfence Friday.

"The unemployed who do not have work in Gaza have found work at your borders - to burn your equipment and shoot you from a distance," Sinwar said during a visit to one of the tent camps of the "March of Return" campaign Sunday.

"We came here to say that Hamas is not sitting in palaces or tunnels, we came to say that we are with you. Today we begin a march that will continue and will not stop until we open the borders at the right time," Sinwar told the demonstrators. "We are here to remind you that there is no peace with the enemy and that no experience or plan will make us decide to make peace with him."

Senior Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh also warned that "our people cannot tolerate the continued siege of Gaza. On Friday we stopped at the border but next time we do not know where the border will be."

(full article online)

Hamas: Gaza unemployed will 'snipe at Israel from a distance'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma’an story – the pictures, incidentally, were lifted without attribution from the Facebook page of the Temple Organizations’ Headquarters.

“Dozens of settlers stormed the Al Aqsa Mosque on the Jewish Passover holiday with the protection of Israeli police.

“The head of public relations and media in the Islamic Endowments Department (Waqf), Firas al-Dibs, said that more than 200 settlers stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque through the Mughrabi Gate, which has been under occupation since the occupation of Jerusalem.

(Incidentally, the Temple Organizations’ Headquarters Facebook page only boasted 100 visitors – which the pictures support.)

(full article online)

Arab Media: Dozens of Settlers Stormed Al Aqsa Mosque


----------



## Sixties Fan

In this Corner: Weapons Used by Gaza Terrorists Under Cover of Protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The curriculum exerts pressure over young Palestinians to acts of violence in a more extensive and sophisticated manner,” IMPACT-se wrote. “The discourse is couched in terms of nationalist and religious martyrdom, across science, literature, history and religious education textbooks.”

“With a comprehensive and oft-stated justification for defensive (obligatory) jihad, the curriculum’s focus appears to have expanded from demonization of Israel to providing a rationale for war,” it continued.

(full article online)

Britain gives £20m to Palestinian schools teaching jihad, martyrdom — report


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The State of Kuwait, with full knowledge that our permanent mission, Israel and Jews everywhere were observing the first night of Passover, hijacked the consultations, forced an open session and invited the Palestinian delegation to present remarks that they had been advised to prepare well in advance. Israel was not given the same advance notice and was barred from taking part in the deliberations due to the observance of our religious holiday,” wrote Ambassador Danon. “I would like to remind the Council that exploiting procedural rules so that one side can make its case while the other cannot is antithetical to the spirit of the United Nations and is a direct affront to the fundamental principles of honest deliberation.”

(full article online)

Israeli envoy lodges complaint over UN security council meeting on Pesach


----------



## Sixties Fan

#BREAKING: Palestinian Ambassador to the UN, Riyad Mansour, just LIED at the United Nation's face about the Hamas #GreatReturnMarch.

RETWEET THIS NOW! pic.twitter.com/sdw5Or1ljL

— Hananya Naftali (@HananyaNaftali) March 30, 2018

Friday Sermon at Gaza "Return March": Our Blessed Land Is Being Trampled by the Accursed Descendants of Apes and Pigs pic.twitter.com/m5xiCQBpNP

— MEMRI (@MEMRIReports) April 1, 2018

Gaza Tribal Dignitary on Hamas TV: We Shall Liberate Our Land with Martyrs, Women and Children, Take Down the Border with the Fingernails of Our Children pic.twitter.com/r9AlJ4TpVH

— MEMRI (@MEMRIReports) April 1, 2018


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## Sixties Fan

This idea is nothing original. Over 50 years ago, Naj Aloush, a Palestinian intellectual and Fatah member, came up with this idea: One morning, he wrote, a million Palestinian refugees would gather on the borders of Israel and then march forward, "into the occupied land."



The calculation is simple. Israel has enough military might to repel any military threat to its borders and sovereignty. But it won't dare slaughter civilians en masse – women and children who are trying to "return to their homes in Haifa, Acre and Ashkelon." And if, heaven forbid, it did, it would be immediately condemned by the international community and accused of harming innocent civilians and of crimes against humanity.

The exact same reasoning guided the Hamas leadership in the meticulous planning that went into organizing the March of Return along the Gaza border fence. About 250 buses brought some 30,000 people to the border area. Some are relatives of Hamas operatives and public officials. Not everyone participated willingly. Some were forced.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/civilians-as-a-human-shield/


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## Sixties Fan

Human Rights NGOs Completely Ignore Violence and Terror at Gaza Border


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## Sixties Fan

"Hamas sent a 7-year-old girl from Gaza to the Israeli border. IDF soldiers returned her to her family. Hamas apparently isn't familiar with the famous hadith that tells of a 14-year-old boy whom the Prophet Muhammad forbade from fighting in war because of his age. There is no greater shame than using children for war, and every Muslim with a heart and a mind who knows the hadith rejects that. Recruiting children is a disgrace," Mordechai and Adraee wrote.

Adraee also tweeted, "The terrorist organization Hamas ignores the rights of women and children and sends them to the fence to achieve the group's terrorist goals while evading responsibility for their lives and welfare."

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/04/...inted-by-low-turnout-for-gaza-border-protest/


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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Kuwaiti Columnist: 'Great Return March,' Organized By 'Terroristic' Hamas, Is Provocative And Violates The Islamic Shari'a


----------



## Sixties Fan

A BBC journalist asks ‘what’s wrong with Hamas?’


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The phrase “Peace Process” served as an ingenious linguistic sedative, lulling the international community into the dream of a peaceful PA. The harsh reality is that the objective of the PA has never been peace, but the gradual, staged elimination of the State of Israel. The PA has been consistently teaching their children that Jews and Israelis are odious, detestable creatures, and their final elimination would be of huge benefit to the Palestinian people, the Arab world and all of humanity.

The Palestinian National Covenant was adopted on May 28, 1963, in which most of the 33 articles invoke an “armed struggle” until “the Zionist entity is totally wiped out and Palestine is liberated.”

Note that this happened four years before the 1967 Six-Day War, so it had nothing to do with the disputed territories that followed that war, and everything to do with the 1948 War of Independence and the sheer existence of Israel.

In April 1996, amid the euphoria of the signing of the Oslo Accords and under much political pressure from the Clinton administration, the Palestinian National Council had a well-publicized vote to discuss whether to “revoke the covenant.” Despite the fanfare, they voted simply to extend the period of time to decide on what to do.

PA spokesperson Marwan Kanfani emerged from the meeting, saying: “This is not an amendment. It is a license to start a new, to found a new resolution, a new charter. This is really a vote to form a committee to look into it.”

The committee never was formed; the members never appointed; no meetings were subsequently announced.

Yet the international media was ablaze with headlines of how the PA had renounced the charter. Peter Jennings, the anchor of “World News Tonight” began his broadcast with: “They said it couldn’t be done. The PA has revoked its charter calling for the destruction of Israel.”

(full article online)

The End of the Era of Palestinian Deception


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas is once against seeking to prove that the words of the poet Eytan Eytan are correct: "The way to the liberation of Palestine is paved with corpses, but Palestine will not be liberated. Because there is no Palestine."

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/a-demonstration-of-power-and-restraint/


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Myth: These events are spontaneous and grass-roots based.*
*Fact*: Israel’s Minister of Defense says the Hamas* terror organization *has invested $15 million dollars to organize this violence. Though Hamas has not confirmed the figure, it is well established that Hamas generally spends huge sums on promoting violence.


Funds have been used to: bus thousands of  civilians into an area that Hamas has turned into a combat zone, to attempt a variety of terror attacks, and to attempt border incursions under the cover of the riots that they, themselves, have organized.
The investment of $15m dollars in this kind of violence should be measured against Gaza’s need for basic infrastructure, electricity, medical facilities and more. Every journalist should be asking the question: how does Hamas have* so much money* *available* for violence, but* so little available* for the basic needs of the people living under its rule?
(full article online)

Myths and Facts: Gaza's Deadly "Protests" | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

From the Palestine Info Center:

(photo)

_Forming a human shield, young Palestinian protesters protect young girl against Israeli snipers targeting peaceful protesters in besieged Gaza. 
#GreatReturnMarch
_
Here's an example where the caption is Pallywood.

Given that every fatality during the violent riots at the Gaza border was a military-age male, the idea that these men are protecting the woman is quite far fetched. On the contrary - if anything, they are using the woman to shield themselves!

The other photos in the series show that there is no danger anyway, as the group passes by other people having what appears to be a picnic who have no fear of Israeli snipers whatsoever.





(full article online)

Who is the human shield for whom? Pallywood strikes again ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah to Hamas: Why Didn’t You Shoot the IDF Snipers?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Analysis: Why Gaza’s Dead Hamas Terrorist ‘Just Loved to Sculpt in the Sand’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Photos of some of the "innocent civilians" in Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

About That Video of the Palestinian Teen Shot In Back: Another Pallywood Production


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Given that every fatality during the violent riots at the Gaza border was a military-age male,


Irrelevant Israeli talking point.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

To understand what is behind the current marches and riots in Gaza, “for the Right of Return by force of arms,” look no further than UNRWA operations in Gaza," says David Bedein, Director of the Israel Resource News Agency and Center for Near East Policy Research, who has investigated and exposed the duplicity of UN-funded UNRWA for decades. 


"80% of Gazans live in UNRWA refugee facilities, constantly brainwashed by the UNRWA premise and promise of the 'right' to return to Arab villages which existed before 1948, although almost none of them ever lived there nor did their forebears," Bedein explains.

"UNRWA has been facilitating this so-called ‘return' march on the Gaza border for nearly a decade. The scope of our investigations of UNRWA in Gaza(1) show that:


(full article online)

The UNRWA uprising. Stage one


----------



## Sixties Fan

For the first time, Palestinians going on pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia from Ben Gurion airport ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reporting on an event honoring Palestinian mothers "of Martyrs, prisoners, and wounded," the official Palestinian Authority daily mentioned in particular the mother of 5 terrorists, among them 2 murderers. Although the paper listed the number of life sentences each is serving, it failed to mention that they are imprisoned for murder of 8 people as well as numerous other terror attacks (see descriptions below):

"Um Yusuf is the mother of Martyr Abd Al-Mun'im, and the mother of four prisoners serving life sentences: Nasser, serving 7 life sentences and an additional 50 years; Nasr, serving 5 life sentences; Sharif, serving 4 life sentences; and Muhammad, serving 2 life sentences and an additional 30 years."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 23, 2018]

This is not the first time the PA has honored this mother of 5 terrorists (also known as Um Hmeid) as a model for Palestinian mothers. In 2011, the PA chose her to launch the PA's statehood campaign with the UN. 

(full article online)

Murderers of Israelis are "sacrificing heroes and torches of freedom that have lit the skies of Palestine," says PLO official - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is more prominently reported in Palestinian media than in Israeli media. Because they are proud of their youths trying to burn dozens of Jews alive.

The mainstream media doesn't deign this worthy of coverage at all, of course. They want their readers to see only the cute stone-throwers, not the firebombers.

(full article online)

Palestinians throw firebombs at buses filled with Jews. No one cares ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A small Arab child tries to sneak up on a policeman from behind
Once again we see Arab children being taught to act our their hatred on the Temple Mount.

In the last video, we saw a proud mother teaching her children to shoot policemen. In today’s Temple Mount video, the child tries to approach the policeman from behind to stab him with a knife, and then runs away when the policeman turns around and sees him.

(full article and video online)

Teaching to Stab on the Temple Mount


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> A small Arab child tries to sneak up on a policeman from behind
> Once again we see Arab children being taught to act our their hatred on the Temple Mount.
> 
> In the last video, we saw a proud mother teaching her children to shoot policemen. In today’s Temple Mount video, the child tries to approach the policeman from behind to stab him with a knife, and then runs away when the policeman turns around and sees him.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Teaching to Stab on the Temple Mount



This is appalling.  In so many different ways.  

The glorification of the use of violence.  The training and use of children as combatants.  The indoctrination of the next generation.  

How does Israel and the sane world address this problem?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abu Khoussa also criticized Hamas for holding military services and glorifying only its dead members, while ignoring the other Palestinians who were killed during the Friday’s events.

(full article online)

Hamas accused of playing into Israel’s hands in wake of Gaza protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small Arab child tries to sneak up on a policeman from behind
> Once again we see Arab children being taught to act our their hatred on the Temple Mount.
> 
> In the last video, we saw a proud mother teaching her children to shoot policemen. In today’s Temple Mount video, the child tries to approach the policeman from behind to stab him with a knife, and then runs away when the policeman turns around and sees him.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Teaching to Stab on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is appalling.  In so many different ways.
> 
> The glorification of the use of violence.  The training and use of children as combatants.  The indoctrination of the next generation.
> 
> How does Israel and the sane world address this problem?
Click to expand...

Putting an end to UNWRA, may be the first step.
Maybe putting an end to the UN itself, which has only become an anti Jewish machine.
Putting an end to the idea that Israel did not win the wars, and put an end to Hamas and the PLO/PA for good.

The Oslo accords was dead on arrival.  Was is the point of keeping up appearances and allowing the PA to continue to exist?
Israel seems to think that it will diminish attacks because of security issues Abbas is worried about.

Put an end to the non respected accord, at least by the Arab side, 
expel any and all Arab tribes which do not wish to live in peace with Israel.

Annex Judea and Samaria once and for all.  They are Jewish lands, the most ancient of Jewish lands.

None of this may ever happen.

Or any of it could happen in the next 20 to 30 years, once all original Arab refugees are gone.  There is no excuse for keeping UNWRA in existence.   The original refugee organization should be the only one to take care of any and all refugees.

Ending the disgusting education, at least in those places, will do them a lot of good.  Unfortunately that kind of education remains in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and most other Muslim countries.

For Gaza I have been recently thinking, as the Copt Christians are persecuted in Egypt, that it would be a nice idea to have a transfer of population.  Fantasy world, I know.

The Muslim Arabs move back to Egypt, as that is where most came from - also from Arabia, and the Copts would get Gaza and create their own country there. One which would be friendly to Israel and live in peace with it.  Israel would help it develop, as it has helped the Gaza people as best as it can.

Those who are being persecuted out of their indigenous lands in Egypt, could find peace - if possible - and a place where they would not be attacked and killed and forced to move, as they are now.

Well,  if only this idea could get to the UN, or to those who would see the point of having it done.

Of course Hamas and others would need to be eliminated, and all Arabs agree to become loyal citizens of Egypt.

And that......is the hard part, as the muslim brotherhood is still around and kicking.  Not to speak of ISIS.

How to do away with these ideologies of Jihad and not caring about the lives of other Arabs, is the hardest part.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas is preparing for violence on the Israeli border


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas is hiding behind civilians while orchestrating violence & terror


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small Arab child tries to sneak up on a policeman from behind
> Once again we see Arab children being taught to act our their hatred on the Temple Mount.
> 
> In the last video, we saw a proud mother teaching her children to shoot policemen. In today’s Temple Mount video, the child tries to approach the policeman from behind to stab him with a knife, and then runs away when the policeman turns around and sees him.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Teaching to Stab on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is appalling.  In so many different ways.
> 
> The glorification of the use of violence.  The training and use of children as combatants.  The indoctrination of the next generation.
> 
> How does Israel and the sane world address this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putting an end to UNWRA, may be the first step.
> Maybe putting an end to the UN itself, which has only become an anti Jewish machine.
> Putting an end to the idea that Israel did not win the wars, and put an end to Hamas and the PLO/PA for good.
> 
> The Oslo accords was dead on arrival.  Was is the point of keeping up appearances and allowing the PA to continue to exist?
> Israel seems to think that it will diminish attacks because of security issues Abbas is worried about.
> 
> Put an end to the non respected accord, at least by the Arab side,
> expel any and all Arab tribes which do not wish to live in peace with Israel.
> 
> Annex Judea and Samaria once and for all.  They are Jewish lands, the most ancient of Jewish lands.
> 
> None of this may ever happen.
> 
> Or any of it could happen in the next 20 to 30 years, once all original Arab refugees are gone.  There is no excuse for keeping UNWRA in existence.   The original refugee organization should be the only one to take care of any and all refugees.
> 
> Ending the disgusting education, at least in those places, will do them a lot of good.  Unfortunately that kind of education remains in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and most other Muslim countries.
> 
> For Gaza I have been recently thinking, as the Copt Christians are persecuted in Egypt, that it would be a nice idea to have a transfer of population.  Fantasy world, I know.
> 
> The Muslim Arabs move back to Egypt, as that is where most came from - also from Arabia, and the Copts would get Gaza and create their own country there. One which would be friendly to Israel and live in peace with it.  Israel would help it develop, as it has helped the Gaza people as best as it can.
> 
> Those who are being persecuted out of their indigenous lands in Egypt, could find peace - if possible - and a place where they would not be attacked and killed and forced to move, as they are now.
> 
> Well,  if only this idea could get to the UN, or to those who would see the point of having it done.
> 
> Of course Hamas and others would need to be eliminated, and all Arabs agree to become loyal citizens of Egypt.
> 
> And that......is the hard part, as the muslim brotherhood is still around and kicking.  Not to speak of ISIS.
> 
> How to do away with these ideologies of Jihad and not caring about the lives of other Arabs, is the hardest part.
Click to expand...


I entirely agree with you about UNRWA.  It has to go.  I suspect, as well, that the UN has to be dissolved or at least radically transformed in order to achieve some sort of objectivity.

I also agree wholeheartedly that the ideologies of Jihad (the violent kind and especially the distaste for Jews) is the both the key to solving the problem and the hardest thing to change.  

I know many people believe that population transfers are heinous (and oddly those same people don't seem to think teaching children to stab people is heinous), but I have to admit a part of me wonders if it is the only solution.  There are plenty of examples of peaceful solutions to civil wars because the people went their separate ways.  (And isn't that the point of a two-state solution?  To allow people to go their separate ways?)

The concern with moving vast numbers of people with these ideologies is the spread of the very same.  And the lack of influence of mitigating ideologies.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small Arab child tries to sneak up on a policeman from behind
> Once again we see Arab children being taught to act our their hatred on the Temple Mount.
> 
> In the last video, we saw a proud mother teaching her children to shoot policemen. In today’s Temple Mount video, the child tries to approach the policeman from behind to stab him with a knife, and then runs away when the policeman turns around and sees him.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Teaching to Stab on the Temple Mount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is appalling.  In so many different ways.
> 
> The glorification of the use of violence.  The training and use of children as combatants.  The indoctrination of the next generation.
> 
> How does Israel and the sane world address this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putting an end to UNWRA, may be the first step.
> Maybe putting an end to the UN itself, which has only become an anti Jewish machine.
> Putting an end to the idea that Israel did not win the wars, and put an end to Hamas and the PLO/PA for good.
> 
> The Oslo accords was dead on arrival.  Was is the point of keeping up appearances and allowing the PA to continue to exist?
> Israel seems to think that it will diminish attacks because of security issues Abbas is worried about.
> 
> Put an end to the non respected accord, at least by the Arab side,
> expel any and all Arab tribes which do not wish to live in peace with Israel.
> 
> Annex Judea and Samaria once and for all.  They are Jewish lands, the most ancient of Jewish lands.
> 
> None of this may ever happen.
> 
> Or any of it could happen in the next 20 to 30 years, once all original Arab refugees are gone.  There is no excuse for keeping UNWRA in existence.   The original refugee organization should be the only one to take care of any and all refugees.
> 
> Ending the disgusting education, at least in those places, will do them a lot of good.  Unfortunately that kind of education remains in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and most other Muslim countries.
> 
> For Gaza I have been recently thinking, as the Copt Christians are persecuted in Egypt, that it would be a nice idea to have a transfer of population.  Fantasy world, I know.
> 
> The Muslim Arabs move back to Egypt, as that is where most came from - also from Arabia, and the Copts would get Gaza and create their own country there. One which would be friendly to Israel and live in peace with it.  Israel would help it develop, as it has helped the Gaza people as best as it can.
> 
> Those who are being persecuted out of their indigenous lands in Egypt, could find peace - if possible - and a place where they would not be attacked and killed and forced to move, as they are now.
> 
> Well,  if only this idea could get to the UN, or to those who would see the point of having it done.
> 
> Of course Hamas and others would need to be eliminated, and all Arabs agree to become loyal citizens of Egypt.
> 
> And that......is the hard part, as the muslim brotherhood is still around and kicking.  Not to speak of ISIS.
> 
> How to do away with these ideologies of Jihad and not caring about the lives of other Arabs, is the hardest part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I entirely agree with you about UNRWA.  It has to go.  I suspect, as well, that the UN has to be dissolved or at least radically transformed in order to achieve some sort of objectivity.
> 
> I also agree wholeheartedly that the ideologies of Jihad (the violent kind and especially the distaste for Jews) is the both the key to solving the problem and the hardest thing to change.
> 
> I know many people believe that population transfers are heinous (and oddly those same people don't seem to think teaching children to stab people is heinous), but I have to admit a part of me wonders if it is the only solution.  There are plenty of examples of peaceful solutions to civil wars because the people went their separate ways.  (And isn't that the point of a two-state solution?  To allow people to go their separate ways?)
> 
> The concern with moving vast numbers of people with these ideologies is the spread of the very same.  And the lack of influence of mitigating ideologies.
Click to expand...

If this actually was a civil war, I might agree.

It is, and always has been, Islam being supreme to Judaism, having replaced Judaism in the eyes of the one god.

Which is why it will not go away.

The Hamas and PLO/Fatah charters are very clear about the land of Israel being part of Islam, and them wanting it back.

The reason Egypt and Jordan signed a peace treaty and now live in semi-peace with Israel is because both were suffering economically.

That was then.  Now, we have so many countries just giving money to Gaza and the PA which makes it impossible for the leaders to not want to get more of it while faking at wanting peace, as with Arafat and Abbas, or not fake it at all that they want to destroy Israel and take the "Muslim land" back, as with Hamas, ISIS, and all others firing rockets at Israel.

You are correct that the ideology will not go away.  It is Islam's ideology.  It is an ideology of conquest and making everyone convert to Islam or kill them, as it has been done again and again.

But....the Copts could end up being like the Kurds.  Their own autonomous people, turning Gaza into a beautiful place where tourism can flourish, where antiquities can be respected, and they can learn to defend themselves - as the Kurds do - from ISIS, or any other Arab/Muslim attacks, with the help of Israel.

Be it in Egypt or in the Sinai, the Copts are being threatened and forced to leave their homes.

Sinai's Coptic Christians flee spate of gruesome suspected ISIS murders


They cannot get weapons or any other form of defense to protect themselves.  So, I think, if it could ever come to be, it would be their own State, regardless of many of them not being sympathetic to Israel right now.  Which probably stems from their Christian beliefs about ZIonism or Jews, or anything else.  But it could change if they had a relation with Israel where they get to see what so many Christians who live in Israel see for themselves.

It would save a lot of Copts lives.  They would not have to be run out of their homes or killed in Egypt or the Sinai anymore.

Just some ideas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I thought the entire point of a hunger strike was to be uncomfortable. But apparently, for Palestinian prisoners, if it gets to be harder than the Paleo diet then it is time to quit.

(full article online)

Palestinian Arab prisoner ends hunger strike because it was getting too hard ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

What’s going on in Gaza. A Short History.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The instructions that were published Tuesday explain that the IDF is photographing the demonstrators and—using face recognition technology—is able to identify the terrorists embedded in the crowd and to which group they belong. Therefore, everyone was called on to come dressed in similar garb, in the colors of the Palestinian flag, to cover their faces, to bring along many containers of water, and to pocket many onions as an antidote to tear gas.

The organizers goal is to store no less than 10,000 tires around the six confrontation points along the fence, and on an order from the organizers, to ignite them simultaneously.

Here’s a question: what prevents the IDF from setting those tires on fire Thursday?

(full article online)

Friday Will Be ‘Burnt Tires Day’ Along Gaza’s Border


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Muhammad would be proud of these Muslims ]


*Fatah: “We are sowing our land from the veins, from the arteries, and from blood, and from the inner heart we will build our state and will not relinquish”*
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik

A bloodied Palestinian flag lying on the ground is reason to rejoice according to Abbas’ Fatah Movement’s Bethlehem branch, which posted the photo above with text glorifying the spilling of “the blood of the Martyrs”:

*Posted text:* “How wonderful and mighty you are, O flag of Palestine, when you are soaked in the blood of the Martyrs (_Shahids_)”
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, March 31, 2018]

An image of a man in an Arab headdress leaning over barbed wire and planting a flower with bleeding hands was also posted by Fatah. Accompanying text emphasized that it is with “blood” that Palestinians are “sowing the land”:

(full article online)

Palestinian flag is wonderful "soaked in the blood of the Martyrs," says Abbas’ Fatah - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the detainees was found to be a member of the Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization, who was instructed by his handlers to plan the attack, using several vessels.

(full article online)

WATCH NOW:  Israeli Forces Foil Attempted Terror at Sea


----------



## Sixties Fan

“They were left by Arab terrorists next to the security fence along the Gaza border last Friday,” the IDF said in a statement. 

“The discovery of firebombs is more proof [the Hamas-driven riots] on Friday were a cover for terrorist acts and under their protection the terrorists endeavored to carry out attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers” the IDF added.

(full article online)

Bag Filled with Ready-made Firebombs Found at Gaza Security Fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Cannot wait to see Palestinians at the Davis Cup )


----------



## Sixties Fan

Trouble is, the shot is of actress Katherine Heigl who played a doctor on TV in the hit show Grey’s Anatomy from 2005-2010.

The clumsy ruse did not last long and was quickly spotted on Twitter:
(vide online)

Very quickly the Palestinian Information Service backed away from its initial claim,  and published the following grovelling apology:

(vide online)

There is no word yet if the doctors seen below will be in the next group of arrivals expected by the Palestinian Information Center in the troubled Gaza Strip.




American actor, director and writer Alan Alda in the driving seat of a jeep, surrounded by Loretta Swit and other cast members of the hit television show M.A.S.H, in costume as members of a US Army medical corp. (Keystone/Getty Images)

(full article online)

Actress Katherine Heigl 'Welcomed' to Gaza by Palestinians Applauding Her as a 'Doctor'


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/04/...-in-infighting-as-gaza-israel-tension-mounts/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Salman did not explicitly say that the Jewish people have the right to live in their own land, but that Israelis do.

Still, the comment was enough to really upset Palestinians.

In an editorial, Ma'an's editor  Nasser Al-Laham can't even mention Crown Prince Salman's name, only calling him an "Arab leader," but he writes, "The Jews are not a people and they are not a nation. "

He is quite adamant about this, and later on he says why he believes that: "If we say that the Jews are a people, then there is no place for the Palestinian people on the land of Palestine."

In other words, the Palestinian position is that they must deny Jewish peoplehood in order for them to claim to be a people themselves, since people are attached to a land.

Meaning that the antisemitic position that there is no such thing as a Jewish people is an essential part of the belief in Palestinianism. The propaganda of a Palestinian people - a people wholly invented in the past century - is inherently antisemitic.

This is not the first time that Palestinians have made this position clear. In the Palestine Papers, this point is also made:

(full article online)

The antisemitism that underlies Palestinianism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Salman did not explicitly say that the Jewish people have the right to live in their own land, but that Israelis do.
> 
> Still, the comment was enough to really upset Palestinians.
> 
> In an editorial, Ma'an's editor  Nasser Al-Laham can't even mention Crown Prince Salman's name, only calling him an "Arab leader," but he writes, "The Jews are not a people and they are not a nation. "
> 
> He is quite adamant about this, and later on he says why he believes that: "If we say that the Jews are a people, then there is no place for the Palestinian people on the land of Palestine."
> 
> In other words, the Palestinian position is that they must deny Jewish peoplehood in order for them to claim to be a people themselves, since people are attached to a land.
> 
> Meaning that the antisemitic position that there is no such thing as a Jewish people is an essential part of the belief in Palestinianism. The propaganda of a Palestinian people - a people wholly invented in the past century - is inherently antisemitic.
> 
> This is not the first time that Palestinians have made this position clear. In the Palestine Papers, this point is also made:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The antisemitism that underlies Palestinianism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Yep.  If they admit that the Jewish people are a people and fully deserving of the same human rights as any other peoples is then they'd have to share.  And they don't want to share.  Or don't think they should have to share.  But on some level they recognize that "I don't want to share" isn't really a good legal or moral argument.  So they go around it by claiming Jewishness doesn't really exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“This will burn down Palestinian fields near the border and the heavy smoke, toxins and pollution will cause a huge environmental disaster for Palestinians. But Hamas doesn’t care. Remember that,” he added.

(full article online)

Israel warns of dire pollution as Gazans amass tires to torch at protest


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “This will burn down Palestinian fields near the border and the heavy smoke, toxins and pollution will cause a huge environmental disaster for Palestinians. But Hamas doesn’t care. Remember that,” he added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel warns of dire pollution as Gazans amass tires to torch at protest


Those fuckers have no place to talk about air pollution.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “This will burn down Palestinian fields near the border and the heavy smoke, toxins and pollution will cause a huge environmental disaster for Palestinians. But Hamas doesn’t care. Remember that,” he added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel warns of dire pollution as Gazans amass tires to torch at protest
> 
> 
> 
> Those fuckers have no place to talk about air pollution.
Click to expand...



Actually, they do, angry Muhammud.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The document refers to the 19 victims of the events – and it is correct as of April 4, 2018.

Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:


7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
1 military activist of the Fatah movement
1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
3 without any significant organizational affiliation
*Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.
*
The entire Gaza Strip has fewer than 70,000 military operatives, including from all the various organizations. Gaza has a population of 2 million today. That is, the percentage of military activists out of the total population is lower than 3.5%.

Thus, the dry facts show that although the share of military activists in the population is only 3.5%, in practice, 80% of those killed are military activists. That is 23 times the rate of their percentage in the population. This high rate among those killed is even more amazing given the fact that they were dressed in civilian clothes and could not be identified in advance as military activists.


(full article online)

Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting*palestinian-victims-identified-as-terror-org-members/*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Felesteen interviews some of those injured by "occupation snipers" during the riots on the Gaza border.

Somehow, they are all military aged men.


 Ibrahim Al-Bahtaiti, 18, shot in the leg.

Mohammed Siam, 24, shot in the leg.

Raed Saad, 21, shot in the foot.

Even though we see photos of women and children at the riots, somehow they aren't being shot.

Hamas announced that they will pay $3000 to the families of those killed, $500 to those severely injured and $200 to those moderately injured.

You can be sure that they are only paying people who are already Hamas members or sympathizers.

(full article online)

Amazingly, all the injured from Gaza seem to be military aged men - and Hamas is paying them ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

B'Tselem apparently wants thousands of Gazans to die invading Israel.

B'Tselem issued a call for IDF soldiers not to open fire against Gazans even
if they are tearing down the fence to invade Israel.

I am not going to speculate at what stage B'Tselem would consider thousands
of Gazans invading Israel to be "life-threatening" and thus justifying
opening fire.

Suffice it to say that under such circumstances we would ultimately reach
the stage that even the folks at B'Tselem would find themselves conceding
that conditions justified opening fire.

But here's the point: the number of casualties that would result from
following B'Tselem's advice is many magnitudes greater than the number of
Gazan casualties that may result from the IDF's current policy.

It is a grotesque morality to advocate a policy that, if implemented,
promises to lead to the deaths of many thousands of Gazans.

IMRA - Wednesday, April 4, 2018 Weekly Commentary: B'Tselem Apparently Wants Thousands of Gazans To Die Invading Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Another version of a peace solution that keeps on being discussed in some especially optimistic quarters is the so-called binational state - both Israelis and Arabs living together in a single political entity in the midst of sharing, co-operation and just getting along together. Palestinian Arab opinion doesn't like that very much either. In answer to the question ("Do you support or reject the creation of a *binational *state for both Arabs and Jews as a final solution for the Palestinian cause?") they practically shout their rejection:





So given the lack of appeal of the major peace concepts that have dominated discussions for many years, how do the Palestinian Arabs now feel about violence as a way forward?

In answer to the question "_Do you support or reject the rise of an armed intifada in the Palestinian territories?_", they said last month






There's much more opposition in the West Bank, it seems, to an armed intifada against the Israelis than there is among Gazans. But even in Gaza, the rejection number is larger than the support - though not by much.

Asked whether the current circumstances - political, security and economic - make them feel _*compelled *_(their word) to "*emigrate abroad*" (with no indication of to where), they responded





Gazans are more than twice as inclined as West Bankers to feel compelled to emigrate. Coupled with how low their support for the Islamists who rule every element of their lives is, a picture of a deeply disconnected population emerges.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Apr-18: Here's (one view of) what the Palestinian Arabs want


[Gazans Emigrating????  
But isn't it an "Open Concentration Camp" ??]

Who Knew ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to reports, Hamas has already begun making payments.

So much for planning a “peaceful” protest.

What you won’t see though are any of the Hamas leaders putting themselves or their family members on the front line to be shot. They don’t need the $500, they’re millionaires and billionaires.

(full article online)

Hamas Paying Gazans to Get Shot by IDF


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jerusalem District Commander Yoram Halevi signed an order Thursday forbidding a conference of Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party in honor of terrorists.

The conference was to be held in the Issawiya neighborhood of eastern Jerusalem to honor the mothers of shaheeds (martyrs) and those wounded while attacking Israelis.

(full article online)

Fatah 'martyrs' conference broken up in Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  et al,

When judges and certain high officials bestow great distinction, upon those that intentionally seek to murder the innocent, given especially to those that openly kill, in face to face, the lives of children, the death of which serves no tactical purpose, THEN that distinction says something about the morality of the people.  That would be both in the context of the murderer and those that seek to glorify them. 




			
				S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
			
		

> Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or glorification _(apologie)_ of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Recalling that all States must cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with their obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the
> financing, planning, preparation or commission of terrorist acts or provides safe havens,
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​





Sixties Fan said:


> Jerusalem District Commander Yoram Halevi signed an order Thursday forbidding a conference of Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party in honor of terrorists.
> 
> The conference was to be held in the Issawiya neighborhood of eastern Jerusalem to honor the mothers of shaheeds (martyrs) and those wounded while attacking Israelis.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah 'martyrs' conference broken up in Jerusalem


*(COMMENT)*

The morality of the honors given to acts of political violence is based, as a first level or criteria, the focus of direct targetting.  That is, did you point the gun directly at unarmed men women and children with the intention of killing them and only them?  The example of this is in the action of one of the martyrs just recently honored (PLO Fedayeen) Dalal Mughrabi, who participated in the murder of 25 men and women and 13 children.

No I've heard many a Palestinian justify their action by attempting to compare it to the deaths incurred when Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally put the innocent in harm's way by attempting to shield themselves behind the innocent to avoid retaliatory military action.  



			
				•  Is State Terrorism Different Than Terrorism?  by  Dr Amy Zalman  • said:
			
		

> “State terrorism” is as controversial a concept as that of terrorism itself. Terrorism is often, though not always, defined in terms of four characteristics:
> 
> The threat or use of violence;
> A political objective; the desire to change the status quo;
> The intention to spread fear by committing spectacular public acts;
> The intentional targeting of civilians. It is this last element - targeting innocent civilians - that stands out in efforts to distinguish state terrorism from other forms of state violence. Declaring war and sending the military to fight other militaries is not terrorism, nor is the use of violence to punish criminals who have been convicted of violent crimes.



When the Leadership of the various HoAP factions attempt to lure, attract and attempt to recruit followers using the despicable actions endangering the innocent and by preaching that it is moral to utilize the presence of a civilian or other protected person _(men, women, and children)_ to render certain HoAP military forces immune from Israeli engagements, constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

This is altogether different that the casualties incurred when the HoAP fail to conduct their hostile operations outside densely innocent populations; or intentionally fail to remove _(evacuate)_ such innocent populations from areas in proximity to the conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The civilian, who was passing by in his car, spotted the terrorist as he was running after the couple at the Mishor Adumim intersection near the gas station, trying to stab the man with a screwdriver.

(full article online)

Terror Attack Foiled at Mishor Adumim


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Fifth column Israeli Christian Arab.....at her best......against Israel....pro taking over the country ]

MK Hanin Zoabi (Joint Arab List) on Saturday held at a press conference at the UN headquarters in New York where she called on the Arabs of Judea and Samaria to join the protest of the residents of the Gaza Strip and to embark on similar “marches” to bring an end to the “occupation,” Ynet reported.

“We have to go out on popular rallies to remind the world of the siege,” she said, then explained why such rallies won’t work, saying: “We need millions of Palestinians to march to Jerusalem. But we can’t do it, because the Israelis would kill them.”

Which sounds hollow on a day when the world has learned about the murder of 150 civilians by the Syrian regime only a few hundred miles from the Israeli border. Zoabi also did not mention the IDF’s case that the majority of the 22 Gazans killed in two consecutive riots in six different spots along the border fence were engaged in violent attacks that used live fire and explosives.

(full article online)

MK Zoabi in NY: ‘Millions of Palestinians Should March on Jerusalem’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'ale Adumim city skyline [Image Source: Flash90]


Reports emerged around 1:15 pm today of an Arab-on-Israeli attack on the edge of *Ma'ale Adumim*, a city just east of Jerusalem. The *Times of Israel* report says a Palestinian Arab male was stopped in the course of trying to stab a man at a gas station near Mishur Adumim*, the thriving industrial section of the city which provides very well-paid employment for Palestinian Arabs *("_I can bring a million people who want to work here, boasted Ahmed Nasser, taking a break from his job_..." via *Haaretz*), making it a prize target for terrorists.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 08-Apr-18: In Ma'ale Adumim's industrial zone, a thwarted Arab-on-Israeli stabbing this afternoon


----------



## Sixties Fan

An accomplice of a Palestinian terrorist who shot dead Raziel Shevach near the West Bank settlement of Havat Gilad earlier this year was charged with attempted murder for his role in the terrorist attack.

Jenin resident Ahmed Kunba was also charged with plotting and carrying out several other security-related offenses along with Ahmad Nassar Jarrar. According to the charge sheet, among the attempted attacks against Israeli civilians or soldiers, the two opened fire at a bus, and unsuccessfully attempted to infiltrate the settlement of Dotan.

(full article online)

Associate in Havat Gilad terror attack charged as accomplice to murder


----------



## Sixties Fan

While preschoolers in civilized countries across the globe are taught tolerance and love for their fellow man, Gaza’s youngest citizens are being raised on Jihad and martyrdom.

Video clips of innocent children chanting anti-Israel slogans and holding fake guns are circling the internet following the recent riots on Gaza’s border with Israel.








(full article online)

WATCH: Gaza Schools Teach Kindergarten Children to be Terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA won’t be responsible for Gaza if Hamas stays in charge, Abbas warns


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,

Yes, 100% agree and appreciate the observation.



Sixties Fan said:


> While preschoolers in civilized countries across the globe are taught tolerance and love for their fellow man, Gaza’s youngest citizens are being raised on Jihad and martyrdom.
> (full article online)
> 
> WATCH: Gaza Schools Teach Kindergarten Children to be Terrorists


*(REFERENCEs)*

ψ  Breitbart Copyright © 2018  •  *By Deborah Danan |* 2 Dec 2015
The *United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)* has imposed temporary suspensions on some of its Palestinian educators but nevertheless many of them continue to incite to violence, including posting images on social media of Palestinians brandishing blood-soaked knives with epitaphs encouraging the murder of “Zionist and Jewish apes and pigs.”​
ψ The *Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement* | HAMAS | 18 August 1988
Article Fifteen:
It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).​Article Seventeen:
The Moslem woman has a role no less important than that of the moslem man in the battle of liberation. She is the maker of men.
---
That is why you find them giving these attempts constant attention through information campaigns, films, and the school curriculum, using for that purpose their lackeys who are infiltrated through Zionist organizations under various names and shapes, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, espionage groups and others, which are all nothing more than cells of subversion and saboteurs.​ψ The *Palestinian National Charter*: Resolutions of the Palestine National Council July 1-17, 1968 
Article 7:
That there is a Palestinian community and that it has material, spiritual, and historical connection with Palestine are indisputable facts. It is a national duty to bring up individual Palestinians in an Arab revolutionary manner. All means of information and education must be adopted in order to acquaint the Palestinian with his country in the most profound manner, both spiritual and material, that is possible. He must be prepared for the armed struggle and ready to sacrifice his wealth and his life in order to win back his homeland and bring about its liberation.​
*(COMMENT)*

It took slightly less than a generation for the Hostile Arab Palestinian to establish and implement the policy as a *violent pathology* → designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression.  This is a legacy strategy → contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations and that knowingly financing, planning and inciting terrorist acts are also contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations [*S**/RES/1624 (2005)*].

Directed Violence among the Arab Palestinian has almost reached the level of a contagious disease, especially among geographic areas of radical Islamic behaviors and asymmetric warfare cultures.  [See WHO • Youth violence | *Fact Sheet** | Reviewed September 2016*] 

This is very applicable to Sixties Fan on the same subject, _supra_. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The video shows pictures of each of the terrorists who committed the Savoy terror attack posing with weapons, as well as the planner of the attack, arch-terrorist Abu Jihad who the PA has credited with planning attacks in which they claim 125 were murdered.  

*Text on screen*: "Heroes of the Savoy self-sacrificing operation March 5, 1975
Heroic Martyr Abdallah Khalil Abdallah Kleib 
Heroic Martyr Ahmed Hamid Ahmed Abu Qamar 
Heroic Martyr Khader Ahmed Jarram 
Heroic Martyr Muhammad Diya Al-Din Al-Hilwani
Heroic Martyr Musa Al-Abd Abu Thuraya
Heroic fighter Musa Jum'a Hassan
Heroic Martyr Naif Najd Ismail Al-Saghir 
Heroic Martyr Omar Muhammad Mahmoud Al-Shafai 
The one supervising the operation, Martyr leader Khalil Al-Wazir

May Allah's mercy be upon our pure Martyrs
Long live the memory - the revolution will continue!
Group picture of those who carried out the self-sacrificing Savoy operation"
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Nablus District Branch, March 6, 2018]

Palestinian Media Watch has documented that PA District Governor of Ramallah and El-Bireh Laila Ghannam honors the Savoy murderers with a wreath of flowers on their grave every year. 

Fatah also posted text glorifying the attack:

*Posted text:* "The Savoy self-sacrificing operation is considered* the greatest and most wonderful of the quality operations* of the Al-Asifa forces, the Fatah Movement's military wing, in which dozens of [Israeli] officers were killed - there is no precise number of those killed, but the number is between 50 to 100 soldiers and officers from the Israeli side, and over 150 soldiers and officers were wounded (sic., 8 civilian hostages and 3 soldiers were murdered, and roughly a dozen were wounded, most of them civilians).
Among those killed was [Israeli] Army Brig. Gen. Uzi Yairi, one of the senior intelligence officers, who led the Verdun Operation (i.e., Israel's Operation Spring of Youth; see note below) in which three [PLO] commanders were killed. The [Savoy] operation was revenge for the murder of commanders Kamal Adwan, Kamal Nasser, and Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar. It should be noted that commander Martyr (_Shahid_) Khalil Al-Wazir 'Abu Jihad' personally supervised this operation."

(full article online)

Murder of 11  was "greatest and most wonderful quality operation,"  says Fatah in video and Facebook post - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Another reason why Gaza needs to split from the PA and become its own sovereign country.  Those who are pro Fatah need to move to the West Bank, and vice-versa ]

Salaries given to workers in the West Bank, but not to those in coastal enclave controlled by rival Hamas

(full article online)

As Fatah-Hamas feud deepens, PA withholds salaries from workers in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

From the US Justice Department last week:

 Geoffrey S. Berman, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and Ann Calvaresi Barr, Inspector General for the U.S. Agency for International Development (“USAID”), announced today the filing and settlement of a civil fraud complaint against NORWEGIAN PEOPLE’S AID (“NPA”), a non-profit, non-governmental organization headquartered in Norway, that receives funding from USAID.  The settlement resolves claims that NPA violated the False Claims Act (the “FCA”) by providing material support to Iran, Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (“PFLP”), and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (“DFLP”), contrary to federal funding requirements.  At all times relevant to the lawsuit, Iran was included on the U.S. Department of State’s list of state sponsors of terrorism (the “State Sponsors of Terrorism List”), and Hamas, PFLP, and DFLP were included on the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control’s specially designated nationals and blocked persons list (the “SDN List”).  The State Sponsors of Terrorism List includes countries that have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism, and the SDN List includes individuals and entities that support terrorism or otherwise engage in conduct antithetical to U.S. interests.

(full article online)

Norwegian People's Aid fined $2 million by US for providing aid to terror organizations ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ If you fail once, try to fail again and again ]

Hafez Al-Karmi, head of the Palestinian Forum in Europe, announced the start of preparations to launch several ships from Europe to "break the blockade" on the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

This June: Flotilla from Europe against the Gaza blockade


----------



## Sixties Fan

_These are 3 brothers who lived in East Jerusalem and helped the activists who participated in the second intifada make their way into Jerusalem. They were arrested and punt into jail for the rest of their lives. Their brother is alive and is the neighbour of Ibrahim_


Translated to normal English, this means that these three brothers helped people enter Jerusalem to murder Jews. That is why they would have life sentences. But they are heroes to the Airbnb hosts and therefore to the stupid and gullible Westerners who pay for the privilege of learning to love murderers.

94 people have given mostly positive reviews to this friendly family that lionizes terrorists..

And by the way - this nice house that Ibrahim's family shares with Westerners for only $24 a night is on land that belonged to Jews and was taken away and given to UNRWA by Jordan. Just one small fact that the Western guests will not learn from their hosts.

(full article online)

Stay in an AirBnB in a "refugee" camp near Bethlehem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The school was only opened two weeks ago. It was built specifically to be destroyed, at a cost of 41,000 euros. Its dedication was attended by lots of Palestinian officials and at the time they said that the school, built in Area C under Israeli control without permits, was meant to be a challenge to Israeli authorities. The speeches that accompanied the opening emphasized how the school (and another school opened at the same time) was built in "record time" and how the entire school was meant, not as an educational institution, but as a "challenge" to Israel.  The very name of the school was "challenge" (Al-Tahadi.)

Wait for the condemnations by complicit Western NGOs that will emphasize Israel's demolition of a school without mentioning that the school was meant to be demolished so that photos of children pretending to study outside can be published.

These students were in a school elsewhere only three weeks ago.

(full article online)

Palestinians cry over Israel destroying school illegally built only two weeks ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The school was only opened two weeks ago. It was built specifically to be destroyed, at a cost of 41,000 euros. Its dedication was attended by lots of Palestinian officials and at the time they said that the school, built in Area C under Israeli control without permits, was meant to be a challenge to Israeli authorities. The speeches that accompanied the opening emphasized how the school (and another school opened at the same time) was built in "record time" and how the entire school was meant, not as an educational institution, but as a "challenge" to Israel.  The very name of the school was "challenge" (Al-Tahadi.)
> 
> Wait for the condemnations by complicit Western NGOs that will emphasize Israel's demolition of a school without mentioning that the school was meant to be demolished so that photos of children pretending to study outside can be published.
> 
> These students were in a school elsewhere only three weeks ago.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians cry over Israel destroying school illegally built only two weeks ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


What ass would destroy a school?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The school was only opened two weeks ago. It was built specifically to be destroyed, at a cost of 41,000 euros. Its dedication was attended by lots of Palestinian officials and at the time they said that the school, built in Area C under Israeli control without permits, was meant to be a challenge to Israeli authorities. The speeches that accompanied the opening emphasized how the school (and another school opened at the same time) was built in "record time" and how the entire school was meant, not as an educational institution, but as a "challenge" to Israel.  The very name of the school was "challenge" (Al-Tahadi.)
> 
> Wait for the condemnations by complicit Western NGOs that will emphasize Israel's demolition of a school without mentioning that the school was meant to be demolished so that photos of children pretending to study outside can be published.
> 
> These students were in a school elsewhere only three weeks ago.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians cry over Israel destroying school illegally built only two weeks ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> What ass would destroy a school?
Click to expand...

What ass would build anything illegally without a permit?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The school was only opened two weeks ago. It was built specifically to be destroyed, at a cost of 41,000 euros. Its dedication was attended by lots of Palestinian officials and at the time they said that the school, built in Area C under Israeli control without permits, was meant to be a challenge to Israeli authorities. The speeches that accompanied the opening emphasized how the school (and another school opened at the same time) was built in "record time" and how the entire school was meant, not as an educational institution, but as a "challenge" to Israel.  The very name of the school was "challenge" (Al-Tahadi.)
> 
> Wait for the condemnations by complicit Western NGOs that will emphasize Israel's demolition of a school without mentioning that the school was meant to be demolished so that photos of children pretending to study outside can be published.
> 
> These students were in a school elsewhere only three weeks ago.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians cry over Israel destroying school illegally built only two weeks ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> What ass would destroy a school?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What ass would build anything illegally without a permit?
Click to expand...

Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Op-ed in official PA daily:
To avenge the Crusaders’ defeat by Muslims,
the Capitalist West created Israel

Israel is a “colonialist satanic plant”

“This Zionist project is a temporary project” 

The West created Israel: 
- “to get rid of the problem of the Jewish ghetto”

- “to settle accounts with the Arabs... over the defeats [Arab Muslims] inflicted on the Crusaders” 

- to serve “global capitalism’s goals and plans to take control of the resources of the Arab nation’s peoples”

Israel - “the colonialist satanic plant” - will not survive because the “Zionist project... is a project that rejects life”
(full article online )

To avenge the Crusaders’ defeat by Muslims, the West created Israel  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The school was only opened two weeks ago. It was built specifically to be destroyed, at a cost of 41,000 euros. Its dedication was attended by lots of Palestinian officials and at the time they said that the school, built in Area C under Israeli control without permits, was meant to be a challenge to Israeli authorities. The speeches that accompanied the opening emphasized how the school (and another school opened at the same time) was built in "record time" and how the entire school was meant, not as an educational institution, but as a "challenge" to Israel.  The very name of the school was "challenge" (Al-Tahadi.)
> 
> Wait for the condemnations by complicit Western NGOs that will emphasize Israel's demolition of a school without mentioning that the school was meant to be demolished so that photos of children pretending to study outside can be published.
> 
> These students were in a school elsewhere only three weeks ago.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians cry over Israel destroying school illegally built only two weeks ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> What ass would destroy a school?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What ass would build anything illegally without a permit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?
Click to expand...


Because a Bedouin "owns" as far as his eyes can see... You car too is his and the water pipe for which the water company "owes" him money,

got it right Abdelhmar o wise sand turban?


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> What ass would build anything illegally without a permit?



On territory under the control (and, imo, sovereignty) of another State?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The school was only opened two weeks ago. It was built specifically to be destroyed, at a cost of 41,000 euros. Its dedication was attended by lots of Palestinian officials and at the time they said that the school, built in Area C under Israeli control without permits, was meant to be a challenge to Israeli authorities. The speeches that accompanied the opening emphasized how the school (and another school opened at the same time) was built in "record time" and how the entire school was meant, not as an educational institution, but as a "challenge" to Israel.  The very name of the school was "challenge" (Al-Tahadi.)
> 
> Wait for the condemnations by complicit Western NGOs that will emphasize Israel's demolition of a school without mentioning that the school was meant to be demolished so that photos of children pretending to study outside can be published.
> 
> These students were in a school elsewhere only three weeks ago.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians cry over Israel destroying school illegally built only two weeks ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> What ass would destroy a school?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What ass would build anything illegally without a permit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?
Click to expand...

It is not Palestinian land.  Never was.  And it is on Jewish Land, according to the Oslo Accord, the one you also do not give a darn about. 

 And the Indigenous Jews have every right to destroy anything built without permits, be it by Arabs or Jews.

More Jewish illegal construction is destroyed than Arab.

Go cry some camel tears.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?



Because that is the rule of law throughout the world.  Private ownership of land does NOT mean you can do anything you want on that land.  Building permits are the norm in most (all?) developed countries.  One must follow the laws of the sovereign, or if you prefer, the one with legal jurisdiction.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS) and the Federal Republic of Germany, through the German Development Bank (KfW), announced the completion of the reconstruction of 155 houses for 158 families in Gaza through an 18-month house reconstruction project that cost 5 million euros.

The homes are...beautiful. Some are as large as 150 square meters.





(vide photos online)

Do victims of any other wars in the world get homes rebuilt by the international community that look like these? 

(full article online)

New Gaza houses are.....gorgeous ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because that is the rule of law throughout the world.  Private ownership of land does NOT mean you can do anything you want on that land.  Building permits are the norm in most (all?) developed countries.  One must follow the laws of the sovereign, or if you prefer, the one with legal jurisdiction.
Click to expand...

OK, but it is SOP in Israel to deny permits to Palestinians. Discrimination is not allowed almost everywhere.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because that is the rule of law throughout the world.  Private ownership of land does NOT mean you can do anything you want on that land.  Building permits are the norm in most (all?) developed countries.  One must follow the laws of the sovereign, or if you prefer, the one with legal jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but it is SOP in Israel to deny permits to Palestinians. Discrimination is not allowed almost everywhere.
Click to expand...

link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because that is the rule of law throughout the world.  Private ownership of land does NOT mean you can do anything you want on that land.  Building permits are the norm in most (all?) developed countries.  One must follow the laws of the sovereign, or if you prefer, the one with legal jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but it is SOP in Israel to deny permits to Palestinians. Discrimination is not allowed almost everywhere.
Click to expand...


Oddly enough it is a point we agree on. I think that Israel should provide building permits, infrastructure and all sorts of goodies to the Palestinians in the territory she intends to keep under a peace agreement. And/or let them receive services and building permits from Palestinian governments instead in land she does not intend to keep.

But in doing so she is effectively annexing and ceding land unilaterally. I don't have a problem with that.  Do you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to get permission from foreign assholes to build on their own land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because that is the rule of law throughout the world.  Private ownership of land does NOT mean you can do anything you want on that land.  Building permits are the norm in most (all?) developed countries.  One must follow the laws of the sovereign, or if you prefer, the one with legal jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but it is SOP in Israel to deny permits to Palestinians. Discrimination is not allowed almost everywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> link?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is no doubt that the Palestinian economy was harmed by the first intifada and the second intifada, but that is hardly the fault of Israel. Of course, the Israeli economy also suffered greatly as a result of the Palestinian turn to violence.

Halper's other claims are just as false as his agricultural claims. For example, his allegation that there are "no homes for the young generation," because Israel has "demolished 12,000 Palestinian homes and refuses to issue permits to build new ones," is utter nonsense. First of all, since the Oslo process more than 95% of Palestinians live under Palestinian civil rule, thus they go to get building permits from the Palestinian Authority, not from Israel. Second, under Israeli rule Palestinians did get building permits, but with or without permits, Palestinian towns expanded tremendously.

To cite two examples of such growth, just south of Ariel is the West Bank Palestinian town of Salfit. According to a 1986 book written by an Israeli professor of geography, Salfit's growth in this period was unmistakably large: "The total built-up area which was added to the town since 1972 has about doubled. It is now roughly equivalent to that of Ariel (as of mid-1985)." According to the same source, Kifl Harith, another Palestinian town "is growing in all directions." (David Grossman, _Jewish and Arab Settlements in the Tulkarm Sub-district_, West Bank Data Base Project, Jerusalem, 1986, p25)

The same author, in an academic text published just before the Oslo process commenced, concluded that "The lack of planning in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has resulted in uncontrolled expansion of Arab villages and in irregular urban sprawl." (_Rural Process-Pattern Relationships_, 1992, Praeger).

If, as Halper claims, Palestinians are not allowed to build and expand, how can there be "uncontrolled expansion" and "irregular urban sprawl"?

Even Palestinian officials contradict Halper's claims, and admit that Palestinians can build, both with and without permits. For example, Khalil Tufakji, the leading Palestinian building and demography expert, and obviously no friend of Israel, stated on CNN that:

(full article online)

CAMERA: The Professor's Truth Demolition


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There is no doubt that the Palestinian economy was harmed by the first intifada and the second intifada, but that is hardly the fault of Israel. Of course, the Israeli economy also suffered greatly as a result of the Palestinian turn to violence.
> 
> Halper's other claims are just as false as his agricultural claims. For example, his allegation that there are "no homes for the young generation," because Israel has "demolished 12,000 Palestinian homes and refuses to issue permits to build new ones," is utter nonsense. First of all, since the Oslo process more than 95% of Palestinians live under Palestinian civil rule, thus they go to get building permits from the Palestinian Authority, not from Israel. Second, under Israeli rule Palestinians did get building permits, but with or without permits, Palestinian towns expanded tremendously.
> 
> To cite two examples of such growth, just south of Ariel is the West Bank Palestinian town of Salfit. According to a 1986 book written by an Israeli professor of geography, Salfit's growth in this period was unmistakably large: "The total built-up area which was added to the town since 1972 has about doubled. It is now roughly equivalent to that of Ariel (as of mid-1985)." According to the same source, Kifl Harith, another Palestinian town "is growing in all directions." (David Grossman, _Jewish and Arab Settlements in the Tulkarm Sub-district_, West Bank Data Base Project, Jerusalem, 1986, p25)
> 
> The same author, in an academic text published just before the Oslo process commenced, concluded that "The lack of planning in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has resulted in uncontrolled expansion of Arab villages and in irregular urban sprawl." (_Rural Process-Pattern Relationships_, 1992, Praeger).
> 
> If, as Halper claims, Palestinians are not allowed to build and expand, how can there be "uncontrolled expansion" and "irregular urban sprawl"?
> 
> Even Palestinian officials contradict Halper's claims, and admit that Palestinians can build, both with and without permits. For example, Khalil Tufakji, the leading Palestinian building and demography expert, and obviously no friend of Israel, stated on CNN that:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> CAMERA: The Professor's Truth Demolition





Sixties Fan said:


> First of all, since the Oslo process more than 95% of Palestinians live under Palestinian civil rule, thus they go to get building permits from the Palestinian Authority, not from Israel.


That is Israel's plan to move Palestinians out of area C and into the walled off bantustans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no doubt that the Palestinian economy was harmed by the first intifada and the second intifada, but that is hardly the fault of Israel. Of course, the Israeli economy also suffered greatly as a result of the Palestinian turn to violence.
> 
> Halper's other claims are just as false as his agricultural claims. For example, his allegation that there are "no homes for the young generation," because Israel has "demolished 12,000 Palestinian homes and refuses to issue permits to build new ones," is utter nonsense. First of all, since the Oslo process more than 95% of Palestinians live under Palestinian civil rule, thus they go to get building permits from the Palestinian Authority, not from Israel. Second, under Israeli rule Palestinians did get building permits, but with or without permits, Palestinian towns expanded tremendously.
> 
> To cite two examples of such growth, just south of Ariel is the West Bank Palestinian town of Salfit. According to a 1986 book written by an Israeli professor of geography, Salfit's growth in this period was unmistakably large: "The total built-up area which was added to the town since 1972 has about doubled. It is now roughly equivalent to that of Ariel (as of mid-1985)." According to the same source, Kifl Harith, another Palestinian town "is growing in all directions." (David Grossman, _Jewish and Arab Settlements in the Tulkarm Sub-district_, West Bank Data Base Project, Jerusalem, 1986, p25)
> 
> The same author, in an academic text published just before the Oslo process commenced, concluded that "The lack of planning in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has resulted in uncontrolled expansion of Arab villages and in irregular urban sprawl." (_Rural Process-Pattern Relationships_, 1992, Praeger).
> 
> If, as Halper claims, Palestinians are not allowed to build and expand, how can there be "uncontrolled expansion" and "irregular urban sprawl"?
> 
> Even Palestinian officials contradict Halper's claims, and admit that Palestinians can build, both with and without permits. For example, Khalil Tufakji, the leading Palestinian building and demography expert, and obviously no friend of Israel, stated on CNN that:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> CAMERA: The Professor's Truth Demolition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, since the Oslo process more than 95% of Palestinians live under Palestinian civil rule, thus they go to get building permits from the Palestinian Authority, not from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is Israel's plan to move Palestinians out of area C and into the walled off bantustans.
Click to expand...

Says the protector of those who made sure that there would be no Jews in :

Gaza  1920

TranJordan  1925

Hebron  1929

Judea /Samaria/ Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem  1948


So, you are thinking seriously of sending all of those Arabs to South Africa?  Into South African bantustans?

Not sure how they would like that idea.


----------



## Sixties Fan

All of the evidence of Hamas' supposed flexibility and willingness to compromise comes from quotes by Hamas to Westerners (including the author) and from other academic papers which have the same flaws. Not once does the author of this paper look at thousands of primary Hamas sources and speeches in Arabic that clearly support the idea that it has always been a terror group hell-bent on destroying Israel and ridding the Middle East of all Jews in any political positions.  The words "rocket" or "tunnel" or "bombs" or "attacks" do not appear once in this paper in relation to Hamas.

Because the point of this and so many other academic papers isn't to uncover the truth but to hide it behind a wall of polysyllabic nonsense.

The irony is that the exact same complaint that this quasi-academic has against how the world looks at Hamas so one-dimensionally applies to how her fellow academics that she quotes, like Judith Butler and Jasbir Puar, look at Israel. The very idea of "pinkwashing" is a liberal-approved method of avoiding any complexity in discussing Zionism as anything other than a wholly-evil political movement and Israel as anything other than an oppressive regime. How can Israel be liberal if it is evil? It must be hiding its evil by pretending to be liberal. Complexity and nuance when dealing with a terror group disappears when talking about a modern, liberal, law-based, democratic state.

(full article online)

Idiot academic blames Europe for not embracing Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA Holocaust abuse*

*PA Holocaust abuse: PA TV misrepresented a photo of concentration camp victims as Arabs, and wrote Jews burned Arabs in ovens*

*PA TV lie #1: PA TV distorted a photo of victims murdered in a concentration camp. PA erased the images of corpses in striped concentration camp uniforms; erased images of the American soldiers who had liberated the camp; erased images of the concentration camp buildings; and presented photo of the remaining dead bodies as Arab victims of Jews in 1948.*

*PA TV lie #2: PA TV claimed that the Jewish fighters burned Arabs in ovens in 1948:
"And they [the Jews] burned the women and children in the village's oven" *

*PA TV lie #3: Photo of victims of massacre in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp by Christian Lebanese was likewise presented as Arab victims of Jews in 1948*

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Just days before Israel's Holocaust Memorial Day, Palestinian Authority Holocaust abuse and exploitation has reached a new low. PA TV misappropriated a photo showing hundreds of dead bodies at the Nazi concentration camp at Nordhausen, originally a subcamp of Buchenwald, presenting them as Arabs killed by Jews on April 9, 1948 in the Arab village of Deir Yassin.






(full article online)

PA Holocaust abuse: Photo of concentration camp victims misrepresented as Arab victims of Jews - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

“I am honored and grateful to God that he chose to let this Palestinian blood run through my veins.”

That April 1 tweet by Arab-American activist Linda Sarsour caught my eye. At first, noting the date of her tweet, I thought that Sarsour might just be kidding around. But no, it was no April Fool’s Day joke. It was just another attempt by Sarsour to make fools out of the American public.

It’s the mass Arab violence at the Gaza border that set Sarsour off on this latest tirade. “Thinking of my Palestinian sisters and others and sending them gratitude for their sacrifices,” she declared in her tweet, vicariously enjoying the thrill of watching other Arabs throw firebombs at Jews, while she tweets from her comfortable home in Brooklyn. Sarsour wrote that she is “honored” to have all that “Palestinian blood” in her veins, because it is “a blood of a courageous, determined and resilient people.”
----
In the 1500s, the Ottoman Turks conquered El-Bireh. So if that’s when the Sarsours first moved in, Linda would have “Turkish blood.” The British, of course, followed the Turks. Then later came the Jordanians—they occupied El-Bireh from 1948 to 1967. That occupation was a blatant violation of international law, but neither the United Nations nor anybody else ever protested. After all, if it’s not Israel, an “occupier” isn’t worth denouncing.

So, what have we learned about Linda Sarsour’s blood? Well, she might be the descendant of Crusaders, Egyptians, Iraqis, Turks, or Jordanians.  But her blood sure isn’t “Palestinian.” Not just because those peoples do not have unique blood types, but because the very concept of a separate “Palestinian” people has no historical basis.

Until recently, the Arab residents of El-Bireh never called themselves “Palestinians.” The very name of their town comes from European Christian invaders, not from any indigenous “Palestinian” source. The Arabs in El-Bireh have the same language, religion, culture, and history as the Arabs in Syria and Jordan. 

Obviously there are minor, local differences in the Middle East based on factors such as geography and tribes. People who live in mountains are not absolutely identical to those who live in valleys. People who are descended from one tribe have some customs that are different from those of rival tribes, just as there are minor differences between Southerners and New Englanders in the United States. But such trivial differences do not make them separate nations.

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour’s “Palestinian blood”


----------



## Sixties Fan

But it was journalist Khaled Abu Toameh who caught the most important line of Abbas’s speech when he admitted, “Palestinians and Jordanians are one people in two states – Jordan and Palestine. We won’t accept the idea of the transformation of Jordan into a Palestinian homeland.”

(full article online)

Abbas: Palestinians and Jordanians are One People in Two States – Jordan and Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Numerous expressions of Nazi sympathies by Palestinian leadership have been documented and exposed over the years, with the admiration of Adolf Hitler being a key part of Palestinian Holocaust denial and distortion.

Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), a watchdog which monitors Palestinian media and incitement and has a massive file on the subject, noted that some expressions of sympathy are blatant, while others are more subliminal.

For instance, senior Fatah official Tawfik Tirawi previously stated in a TV interview that “Hitler was not morally corrupt. He was daring.” Tirawi’s approach even offended the Palestinian interviewer who chose to quickly change the topic.

(full article online)

‘Hitler was Daring’: How the Palestinians Revere the Nazis


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority does not provide the Gaza Strip directly with either water or electricity. It does, however, pay Israel to provide electricity to Gaza. It has been widely reported that due to the conflict between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, the PA cut off its electricity payments to Israel, and Israel has, as a result, cut back on the amount of electricity it provides the Gaza Strip. 

As _The Los Angeles Times_ itself reported in February, Hamas-PA discord has resulted in cuts in *electricity: "*In June, as a punitive measure against Hamas, the Palestinian Authority stopped paying Israel to supply Gaza with electricity, causing the drastic reduction in power." (See here for the corrections that CAMERA prompted on this _Times _story.)
For good reason though, Ann Simmons' February story does not note punitive measures affecting the flow of water into Gaza. While the Gaza Strip suffers from a severe water shortage, this is not due to any decrease in the amount of water flowing into Gaza, but rather due to a polluted aquifer and the energy shortfalls required to treat the water from subterranean Gaza, along with inadequate infrastructure.

(full article online)

CAMERA: Will Los Angeles Times Substantiate Dubious Charge About Reduced Water Flow Into Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans demonstrated today in support of the regime that gasses its own people.

A group of people in Gaza City denounced the US-led raids on Syria on Friday night, calling them "continued violations by the US administration on the sovereignty of the Arab countries."

They said that Syria will remain steadfast in the face of evil and terrorism practiced by the US, Britain and France.

Flags from Syria, Iran and Hezbollah were waved.

Hamas does not allow demonstrations that go against its own positions.

(full article online)

Gazans hold demonstration in support of Syria, Iran and Hezbollah ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF destroys ‘longest and deepest’ Hamas cross-border attack tunnel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ahead of the commissioners visit to the Beddawi camp, UNRWA decided to polish the facade of its camp. The Palestinian news site _Al-Quds News _reports that UNRWA had told  the inhabitants of the camp:

1. That they had to remove from schools UNRWA flags carrying ”slogans” against the official UNRWA policies.

2. Visible maps of the Palestinian one state solution in which Israel is erased and  replaced by an Arab Palestine had to be removed also.


The removal of one such in the Kawkab-Battouf School for Girls caused a lot of angry feelings among the Palestinian Arabs.  Terror organizations like Hamas complained and spoke in Palestinian media of the humiliation among those who had to remove the maps, claiming that the decision violates the so called right of refugees to their identity. 

The EU commissioner came, gave some speeches and left. 

As soon as the commissioner had left the UNRWA camp, the mighty EU felt it had to comment on the removal of the map in the Kawkab-Battouf School claiming the removal of the map was not a request by the EU.

One day after the visit of the commissioner, the maps that erase Israel and replace it with an Arab fictional Palestine were up again.On a wall in the Kawkab-Battouf School, Palestinian activists filmed an artist painting a map in the shape of Israel including Judea and Samaria, all in the colors of the Palestinian flag. Next to it someone had written ”I am Palestine, not neutral” referring to UNRWA’s official neutrality policy of which the map is a violation. 

According to the terror organization PFLP, UNRWA staff participated in the video filmed event which was posted on Facebook. The video clip shows the map being drawn on a wall in the schoolyard inside the UNRWA school in the presence of small girls chanting ”with our blood, with our soul we will liberate you oh Palestine”. They also chanted the very famous terror slogan ”millions of martyrs are marching to Jerusalem”.

(full article online)

UNRWA, the EU and the map


----------



## Sixties Fan

Refuting a fundamental PA public claim that Palestinian terrorist prisoners are internationally recognized "Prisoners of War," former PA Minister of Prisoners admits in court, during cross-examination by the head of PMW's legal division, that 'fewer than five' meet international criteria to be defined as POWs 
Although the PA glorifies terrorists on a daily basis, PA "Prisoners Day" is a special occasion to honor terrorists and murderers of Israelis 
PA law states that no peace can ever be reached with Israel without the release of all the terrorist prisoners

(full article online)

PMW exclusive: Former PA Minister of Prisoners admits: Fewer than 5 Palestinian prisoners are POWs - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

When Husam Zomlot gave his speech at J-Street, he described every single thing that Palestinians will never accept.

Most of these were things that any Israeli government, from right to left, would insist on in any peace deal.

The audience was also remarkably willing to believe the most absurd lies. "We vow that once peace prevails, once the State of Palestine is created, with East Jerusalem as its capital, we will not only recognize the Jewish connection to Jerusalem, we will celebrate it."

Recognizing the Jewish connection to Jerusalem shouldn't be dependent on a peace deal - it is a fact. A promise to recognize a fact doesn't show flexibility - it proves that the negotiator is a liar from the start.

(full article online)

Watch J-Street audience cheer Palestinian intransigence (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/04/...-violence-as-palestinians-mark-prisoners-day/


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is a further component to this macabre equation that is essential to its success – the support of the West. To succeed, the strategy of Palestinian terrorists depends on a compliant press that will publish hagiographic renderings of "resistance" and "heroism," a sympathetic civil society of nongovernmental organizations and activist churches that will run campaigns based on the Palestinian narrative of victimhood, and a hollow United Nations to issue reflexive condemnations and carry out politicized fact-finding missions and inquiries that never fail to accuse Israel and excuse the Palestinians.

This latest escalation has followed the same pattern. Hamas, which exercises absolute rule in Gaza, orchestrated a confrontation with Israel that once again has "no plausible strategic goal" beyond achieving crucial "propaganda victories."

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions...rt-in-hamas-propaganda-war/?redirected=252509


----------



## Sixties Fan

As the Palestinians continue to insist on no compromise in their demand for a state, let's look at what progress has been seen in the world since 2000, when they rejected the chance for statehood at Camp David.

Palestinians reject statehood offer at Camp David (2000)
Playstation 2 (2000)
USB Flash Drive (2000)




Palestinians reject statehood offer at Taba (2001)
iPod (2001)
Wikipedia (2001)
Skype (2003)
YouTube (2005)
Facebook (open to the public in 2006)
Twitter (2006)
iPhone (2007)

Palestinians reject Obama framework for peace (2014)
Xbox One (2014)
Playstation 4 (2014)
Windows 10 (2015)
Oculus Rift (2016)
iPhone X (2017)
Tesla Model 3 (2017)






The world moves on. But Palestinians stay exactly the same - adding demands, rejecting peace, rejecting a state.

In 2050, this list will be longer, and Palestinian Arabs will be exactly where they were in 2000. Despite billions of dollars invested in them from governments and NGOs, they haven't progressed.

Because they don't want to create a state. If they did, they would have done it, and had years to build it.

(full article online)

The world moves on - but Palestinian Arab leaders want their people to remain in limbo forever ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

The photo of Mohammed  with the onion mask was pure propaganda. The same article I reference has this photo of him at the march a week later.





Glad to see the adult propping up Mohammed at least looked after himself and put on a mask.

Latest Palestinian Propaganda Poster Child: Onion Boy!


----------



## Sixties Fan

The motion passed Wednesday in the form of amendments to two general reports on EU budgets. The first amendment demands that the European Commission ensure that EU funds “are spent in line with Unesco-derived standards of peace and tolerance in education.”

In the second amendment, the European Parliament also “insists that teaching and training programmes [to the PA] that are financed from Union funds such as PEGASE should reflect common values such as freedom, tolerance and non- discrimination within education.”

(full article online)

EU resolves to nix intolerant content in Palestinian textbooks


----------



## Sixties Fan

A video of the assault, filmed by one of the Israeli victims, went viral on social media and sparked widespread revulsion amid fears of a resurgence of anti-Semitic violence, including from Muslim migrants.

Police said that a 19-year-old suspect they had already identified from the footage and witness statements had presented himself with a lawyer and would face a judge to be held on assault charges.

The _Bild_ daily identified him a Palestinian Arab from Syria named Knaan S. who was registered at a refugee home in Brandenburg state outside Berlin but was most recently living "out of a suitcase" in the capital.

The video shows the attacker, one of a group of three men, shouting "yahudi", Jew in Arabic, and lashing out at his victim with a belt.

In a twist to the story, the author of the video tape, a 21-year-old student called Adam, said Wednesday that he is an Israeli Arab.

He told broadcaster_ Deutsche Welle_ that he wore the Jewish kippa gifted to him by a friend to see whether it was safe to do so on the streets of his upmarket Berlin neighborhood.

(full article online)

German police arrest suspect in anti-Semitic belt attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza's power plant has been down for over a week because of Fatah-Hamas infighting. Media all but silent. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Speaking about the planned opening of the US Embassy in Jerusalem next month, he said that "the insistence of the administration of American President Donald Trump to continue to violate international law and international legitimacy in such a blatant form is a threat to the security, peace and stability of the Middle East and the world."

The PLO claims that opening an Israeli embassy anywhere in Jerusalem is a violation of international law, based on UNSC resolution 478, that calls upon_ "Those States that have established diplomatic missions at Jerusalem to withdraw such missions from the Holy City."_

This would include, of course, any diplomatic missions meant for Palestinians, and several nations maintain such missions including Belgium, France, Turkey the UK and the US itself.  All without a peep of protest from Erekat.

Erekat's claim that the US Embassy move threatens world peace is, as always, a threat itself. The US has the right to place its embassies wherever it wants, and it reasserted that right at the time of UNSC 478. There is obviously nothing violent about moving an embassy.

Erekat is saying that Arabs will respond to the US move with violence - and that it what threatens world peace.

Erekat is telling the world that  Arabs have no self control and cannot help themselves but to respond to a diplomatic move by starting World War III.

(full article online)

Saeb Erekat says that the US is a threat to world peace - by opening up an embassy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

While Palestinian Arab extremism is currently being driven from Gaza, and along with it the bulk of media attention from the Arab world and more broadly, the envious Fatah factionists of the Palestinian Authority are not far behind. And constantly on the look for opportunities to grab some of the limelight.

Mahmoud Abbas, who in addition to regaling in the title of president of the Palestinian Authority heads Fatah, features in a *Times of Israel* news report that shines some light - or perhaps it's more appropriate to say darkness - on how the moderate strain of Palestinianism views the cold-blooded murder of Israeli civilians.

The report describes the gala welcome-home reception bestowed on Rajaei Haddad. He recently completed serving a 20-year sentence in an Israel prison for murder. Naturally, he's hailed in their circles (literally) as “_a leader, a hero, and a fighter_.”

Palestinian Authority TV showed footage of the meeting between Abbas and Haddad, who spent two decades in prison for his role in the November 1997 murder of yeshiva student *Gabriel Hirschberg* הי"ד in Jerusalem's Old City of Jerusalem.

Here's how the terrorist murder was reported in the New York Times

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 20-Apr-18:"Moderate" Palestinian Arab president-for-life rolls out red carpet for a murdering "Fatah knight"


----------



## Sixties Fan

At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.

About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.

"Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."

A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.

"We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.

"The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."

(full article online)

Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed


Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
Click to expand...

The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".

They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.

Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
Click to expand...


Somebody has to control the Islamist beast.


----------



## Hollie

Search

 3 Palestinian terrorists infiltrated Israel from Gaza with knives and grenades. IDF arrested them.

Lives were saved today thanks to the IDF!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".
> 
> They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.
> 
> Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.
Click to expand...

Pffft. Stupid Israeli talking points.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".
> 
> They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.
> 
> Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft. Stupid Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

Stupid person who cannot think for himself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".
> 
> They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.
> 
> Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft. Stupid Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid person who cannot think for himself.
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. Israeli Talking Points.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the video Tamimi appears blocking a border police officer's field of vision while he was taking aim from a prone position, and then attacking Border Policemen and IDF soldiers with pushes, fists, and kicks.
> 
> About two weeks after the documented incident, _Ad Kann_ filed a complaint with Binyamin police against Tamimi demanding a criminal investigation: "In the video you can see Tamimi attacking Border Police and IDF soldiers again and again without the security forces stopping her, so she grew bolder and began to attack with fists and even kicks," the complaint states.
> 
> "Tamimi's criminal actions are getting worse, and the time has come to act on this matter. Therefore, we ask you to order the necessary measures against Tamimi and other persons involved."
> 
> A plea bargain was recently signed according to which Tamimi would be sentenced to eight months' imprisonment and fined NIS 5,000. After the deal, _Ad Kann_ sent a request to the Military Advocate General to cancel the plea bargain.
> 
> "We were surprised to hear about the lenient plea arrangement that was presented today after contacts between the parties that were conducted in secret," the organization's request stated. "This organization has long been operating in radical organizations involved in violent riots and attacks on IDF soldiers. The plea bargain is puzzling and unacceptable, since unequivocal documentation was presented and the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> "The Tamimi family and its supporters interpret enforcement authority indulgence in the wrong way. This was the case when Ahed attacked IDF soldiers over and over without intervention, and so it was in the courtroom, when one of her supporters attacked a military prosecutor in an unprecedented manner."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Another Ahed Tamimi violence video revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".
> 
> They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.
> 
> Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft. Stupid Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid person who cannot think for himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli Talking Points.
Click to expand...


Happy to help, Mr. Angry Koran Thumper.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those IDF goontards should get out of Palestine. But alas, they are too fucking stupid to understand that they are not wanted there.
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".
> 
> They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.
> 
> Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft. Stupid Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid person who cannot think for himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli Talking Points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Happy to help, Mr. Angry Koran Thumper.
Click to expand...

You are full of shit.

I have never even seen a Koran.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF is NOT in "Palestine".
> 
> They are in Judea and Samaria which is rightfully known as the ancient homeland of the Jewish People.
> 
> Your ignorance and foul writing is not going to change that one bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Pffft. Stupid Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid person who cannot think for himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Israeli Talking Points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Happy to help, Mr. Angry Koran Thumper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are full of shit.
> 
> I have never even seen a Koran.
Click to expand...


Thank you, Mr. Angry Koran Thumper.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

In his March 30/31 castigation of Israel, Geraldo revisited a familiar role. Among previous such Geraldo propaganda bursts are these: In 2012, he fawned over West Bank Palestinian Hanan Ashrawi in a "Geraldo at Large" Fox News Channel special, "Israel Caught in the Crossfire," filmed in Israel and the Palestinian territories, that aired July 8, 2012 (10 PM Eastern). The hour-long documentary – with Geraldo reporting mainly from Israel and his brother Craig reporting from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank – dealt with several issues including the chances for a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs leading to a "two-state solution." Describing Ashrawi as “a friend I have known for decades,” Geraldo indulged her anti-Israel disinformation. This long-time Geraldo friend has been a long-time anti-Israel propagandist and continues as such. 

Ashrawi has discredited herself a number of times – for example, as the only known professing Christian in the otherwise Muslim leadership of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, Ashrawi gave a press conference in 1991 in which she replied to a question in self-righteous indignation, “I find your reference to 'Judea and Samaria' a statement of extreme bias, and rather offensive. I am a Palestinian Christian, and I know what Christianity is. I am a descendant of the first Christians in the world, and Jesus Christ was born in my country, in my land. Bethlehem is a Palestinian town. So I will not accept this one-upmanship on Christianity. Nobody has the monopoly." (_Washington Post_, “The Practiced Palestinian,” Caryle Murphy, Nov. 4, 1991)

But if Ashrawi is in fact a "descendant of the first Christians in the world," as she describes herself, she would be a descendant of ancient Israeli Jews not the descendant of Arabs as she is presumably. Furthermore, although Ashrawi denies the existence of Judea and Samaria, Israel's names for the West Bank, the names are mentioned in the Christian New Testament in well known passages Matt. 2:1 and Acts 1:8 in the context of land resided in by Israeli Jews (this was perhaps a thousand years before the establishment of the first Arab communities in the Holy Land which happened well after conquering Muslim Arab armies had swept across the continent from the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century C.E.). Evidently, Ashrawi is either ignorant or deceitful about all this. This is Geraldo's long-time friend whose influence is likely to have led to his misperception of the conflict with the Palestinians.

Interestingly, Geraldo is not the only highly visible American newsman who was likely to have been influenced by Ashrawi  to mislead viewers about Israel. Former ABC News anchor Peter Jennings, when he was head of the ABC bureau in Beirut, Lebanon in the 1970s, had a serious relationship with Ashrawi in Beirut where she was a graduate student in literature at the American University. This relationship was reported by _U.S. News & World Report_ in 1991, _Washington Post_ of Sept. 17, 2001 and _Daily Mail_ (London) of Sept. 20, 2001. Jennings frequently misreported and fabricated information about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict beginning in the 1970s and continuing through his career as an anchor for ABC's _World News Tonight_.

In March 26, 2010, Geraldo launched verbal assaults on Israel in an appearance on _Fox and Friends_ in which he accused an allegedly anti-peace, obstructionist Israel of focusing on the Iranian threat in order to divert attention from its own supposed intransigence. His tirade also included the baseless allegation that Israel is responsible for American difficulties vis-a-vis the entire Middle East and the Muslim world.

(full article online)

CAMERA: Fox News Channel Airs Geraldo Riveras Anti-Israel Disinformation


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Hamas terrorist was killed on Sunday when a tunnel collapsed on him in central Gaza.

According to the International Middle East Media Center, the incident took place near Deir al-Balah.

The terrorist, a member of Hamas’s Al-Qassam Brigades, was identified as Tha’er Nayef az-Zare’ey, 30.

(full article online)

Hamas terrorist killed in Gaza tunnel collapse


----------



## Sixties Fan

A recent survey from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research shows that a vast majority of Palestinian Arabs say that the Palestinian Authority is corrupt.

Answering the question "Do you think that there is corruption in PA institutions of the Palestinian Authority? " 78% said "yes."

But it goes beyond financial or similar corruption. The people are frightened of their own government, as in all autocracies.

In answer to the question "In your view, can people in the West Bank today criticize the authority
without fear?" an astonishing 65.% of those living under that authority answered "no."

If the PA is corrupt and citizens are afraid to say anything against it out loud, then what kind of a state would it become?

(full article online)

Two thirds of West Bank Palestinians are afraid to criticize Abbas' government ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

How your country has dealt with Ahlam Tamimi illustrates the point dramatically. There’s no need for us to tell you that among Jordanians, she’s a celebrity, a figure of huge admiration who has appeared often in your media and has a high public profile. For instance she shared a public platform with several Jordanian lawmakers and a former Jordanian prime minister just a few weeks ago [“05-Jan-18: In Jordan, the FBI fugitive Ahlam Tamimi pays tribute to her slapping/taunting/kicking Tamimi cousin“].

But this is an open letter, so we will explain to our readers that Tamimi is an admitted agent of Hamas, the first female to be recruited by the Islamist terrorists and – in terms of lives extinguished and grief inflicted – one of their most productive. She boasts explicitly and often of the killings she masterminded and executed at the Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem. She takes credit for choosing a site where significant numbers of children could be blown to pieces. Jewish children, of course; she makes clear that for her the conflict and the homicides are all about religion.

(full article online)

Extradite Tamimi: An open letter to Jordan’s media minister


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority fails to cancel payments to terrorists and their families, PMW sends letter to US Sec. of State.

(full article online)

Report: PA fails to implement terms of Taylor Force Act


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]

As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.

(full article online)

Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers


Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with. 

You certainly are predictable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
Click to expand...

Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.
Deflection.
Link.

I think we have a robot in our threads.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  If any Jewish person did anything like that during the 1300 years of Muslim and Christian occupation of the Land of Israel, they would have been killed, slowly, or right away.   ]
> 
> As is customary in her family, Janna stands very close to the soldiers, enjoying the freedom to curse young men who would not dare touch her because IDF soldiers don’t hit 12-year-old children, even the crazy ones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Janna Tamimi, 12, Replacing Imprisoned Cousin Ahed in Cursing, Harrassing IDF Soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you found a need to use your usual slogans as a retreat to your safe zone because you’re unable to address the facts presented.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village after reports of stone-throwing.​
> Who were they throwing stones at if the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) was not there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you found a need to use your usual slogans as a retreat to your safe zone because you’re unable to address the facts presented.
Click to expand...

What facts? Like the Palestinians throwing stones at nobody?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter who they were throwing stones at. This was just another staged photo-op that Pallywood Studios would hope to use. They do have a desire to placate the rabid Jooooooo hatreds that sustains folks like you.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you found a need to use your usual slogans as a retreat to your safe zone because you’re unable to address the facts presented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What facts? Like the Palestinians throwing stones at nobody?
Click to expand...

Me thinks you might need some new glasses


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you found a need to use your usual slogans as a retreat to your safe zone because you’re unable to address the facts presented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What facts? Like the Palestinians throwing stones at nobody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me thinks you might need some new glasses
Click to expand...

You didn't read my post.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need only present you with the facts and you’re forced to retreat to all the same slogans and cliches you litter every thread with.
> 
> You certainly are predictable.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, every time you duck I say nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you found a need to use your usual slogans as a retreat to your safe zone because you’re unable to address the facts presented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What facts? Like the Palestinians throwing stones at nobody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me thinks you might need some new glasses
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't read my post.
Click to expand...

So, which event exactly are you speaking of, where according to you there were no IDF soldiers there?

Were there Israeli cars passing by?
Were there Israeli civilians walking by?

They were not sitting at some pond and throwing pebbles, stones or rocks into it, now were they?


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> So, which event exactly are you speaking of, where according to you there were no IDF soldiers there?


Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village *after* reports of stone-throwing.​
I know you have a reading comprehension problem, but do try to keep up.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, which event exactly are you speaking of, where according to you there were no IDF soldiers there?
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village *after* reports of stone-throwing.​
> I know you have a reading comprehension problem, but do try to keep up.
Click to expand...

I will keep up when you are clear as to what you are talking about.

All Ahed had to do was mind her own business, let the soldiers do their job and look for those who were throwing stones at cars, etc, and they would have left without an issue.

But being ill-bred by the Tamimi family from Bosnia, she (and now her 12 year old sister) have no other choice but to do what they have been programmed to do, and do it so well.

Ahed, not only delivered curses at the soldiers but assaulted one of them.

She deserves what she is getting .  

It is doubtful that it will make her think twice about what her clan is all about, but.....it is not the one and only clan to behave that way, generation after generation of Jew hating indoctrination.


Shalom


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, which event exactly are you speaking of, where according to you there were no IDF soldiers there?
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village *after* reports of stone-throwing.​
> I know you have a reading comprehension problem, but do try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will keep up when you are clear as to what you are talking about.
> 
> All Ahed had to do was mind her own business, let the soldiers do their job and look for those who were throwing stones at cars, etc, and they would have left without an issue.
> 
> But being ill-bred by the Tamimi family from Bosnia, she (and now her 12 year old sister) have no other choice but to do what they have been programmed to do, and do it so well.
> 
> Ahed, not only delivered curses at the soldiers but assaulted one of them.
> 
> She deserves what she is getting .
> 
> It is doubtful that it will make her think twice about what her clan is all about, but.....it is not the one and only clan to behave that way, generation after generation of Jew hating indoctrination.
> 
> 
> Shalom
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> let the soldiers do their job


Like steal land and kill people?


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, which event exactly are you speaking of, where according to you there were no IDF soldiers there?
> 
> 
> 
> Last Friday she delivered her curses IDF soldiers who had entered the village *after* reports of stone-throwing.​
> I know you have a reading comprehension problem, but do try to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will keep up when you are clear as to what you are talking about.
> 
> All Ahed had to do was mind her own business, let the soldiers do their job and look for those who were throwing stones at cars, etc, and they would have left without an issue.
> 
> But being ill-bred by the Tamimi family from Bosnia, she (and now her 12 year old sister) have no other choice but to do what they have been programmed to do, and do it so well.
> 
> Ahed, not only delivered curses at the soldiers but assaulted one of them.
> 
> She deserves what she is getting .
> 
> It is doubtful that it will make her think twice about what her clan is all about, but.....it is not the one and only clan to behave that way, generation after generation of Jew hating indoctrination.
> 
> 
> Shalom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> let the soldiers do their job
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like steal land and kill people?
Click to expand...

It would be greatly appreciated if you would stop answering posts like a child.

Work on it.


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## Sixties Fan

Here's another gem from the PCPSR poll taken of Palestinians last month.

 Q: If reaching a peace agreement that leads to the creation of a Palestinian state side by side with the state of Israel requires allowing Israeli Jews to live in the Palestinian state either as citizens or as residents while enjoying the same rights
and duties enjoyed by Palestinian Christians and Muslims, would by support or oppose that?


62.6% oppose equal rights for Jewish citizens in a Palestinian state, and only 30.6% support.

Even though the question calls them "Israeli Jews," they are obviously no longer Israeli if they are citizens, so this means that Palestinians overwhelmingly oppose equal rights for Jews in their state.

(full article online)

Palestinians oppose equal rights for Jews by a 2-1 margin ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

*Fatah names camp for kids after arch-terrorist 
responsible for murder of 125 Israelis *

*The Martyr Abu Jihad Camp was held at PA National Security Forces facility
h*
*PA Ministry of Information: "Abu Jihad, the one of a kind military mind... his heritage will remain... a source of inspiration for our resistance"*

*PA Ministry of Education: Radio broadcasts in all PA schools "were dedicated to talking about the life of Martyr Khalil Al-Wazir"*

*Fatah: "Those who outlined their path in blood cannot disappear, We are loyal to your path, O heroes"*

*Fatah: "Let us continue attacking"*

*Fatah: "A people whose leaders are Martyrs will triumph, Allah willing"*
(full article online)

Fatah names camp for kids after arch-terrorist responsible for murder of 125 Israelis - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

The editor of Ma'an, Dr. Nasser al Laham, considered a moderate, independent publication, has gone completely off the rails in his editorial about Israel's 70th birthday.

Just the first paragraph could keep psychiatrists busy for months:

 Thousands of statements made by the leaders of the Zionist movements these days can be summed up in one sentence: "Israel will not collapse and the Jews will not flee to Europe again)." In fact, this denial confirms to the world that Israel is still liable to collapse and that its Jews will flee to their hometowns in Europe again eventually.

(full article online)

Mainstream, educated Palestinians still expect Jews to eventually flee ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Several people were injured in the attacks, local sources told the news agency on condition of anonymity due to security concerns.

According to the sources, regime forces were trying to advance from the southern side of the camp, which accommodates some 2,500 families, amid heavy bombardment.

The attacks come after the regime and the Islamic State (ISIS) group failed to reach a deal on evacuating the group’s jihadists from Yarmouk and its vicinity.

In 2016, ISIS seized most of the neighborhood from Al-Qaeda, which had been controlling it until that time.

The Yarmouk "refugee camp" is in fact a sprawling neighborhood at the southern edge of Damascus. Most of the Palestinian Arabs who live there are descendants of Arab refugees from Israel's War of Independence, though few are themselves refugees.

There are thousands of people registered as Palestinian refugees in Israel’s neighboring countries, including Lebanon and Syria. Palestinian refugees in Lebanon have limited work options and are refused citizenship.

(full article online)

20 civilians killed in 'Palestinian refugee camp' in Syria


----------



## Sixties Fan

European groups have reportedly recently made a proposal to the terrorists of Hamas who rule Gaza. According to the proposal, Hamas would relinquish the “armed struggle” against Israel for at least five years. In exchange, an institution established by the EU would run and finance Gaza’s humanitarian affairs.

Does this ring any bells?

It should, because it is essentially a rehash of numerous Western failures to appease despotic regimes by rewarding them, instead of punishing their aggression. It did not work with Hitler in 1938 or with the disastrous 2015 deal with the Iranian ayatollah regime. It will not work with Hamas either.

Instead of “Peace in our time”, British Prime Minister Chamberlain’s appeasement of Hitler paved the way to the Second World War. Obama’s Iran deal filled the Iranian regime’s coffers with billions of dollars for simply postponing its nuclear weapons. It has also emboldened Tehran to step up its imperialist ambitions, as is evident with its aggressive military buildup on Israel’s northern border.



Hamas’ “armed struggle” is a euphemism for Israel’s destruction as it is explicitly stated in Hamas’s genocidal charter. Instead of demanding that Hamas end its aggression against Israel, Europe offers significant financial rewards to Hamas for merely postponing it.

This initiative illustrates once again the vast gulf between Europe’s declared noble goals and its actions that fundamentally undermine any fragile hope of peace between Israel and its neighbors. The same EU that blames Israel for the lack of peace is bankrolling the very enemies of peace who are seeking Israel’s destruction.

(full article online)

The EU and Hamas, Paving the Road to Hell


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Arab reports picked up by the Jerusalem Post, Amman “began the process of revoking the Jordanian citizenship of about 30 Palestinian Authority and Fatah officials and their families,” including PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

Many Senior Palestinian Authority and Fatah officials, including Abbas and his two sons, were given Jordanian citizenship over a decade ago, a Jordanian official disclosed in early 2011 . . .

The report did not disclose any information as to why Jordan decided to begin the process of revoking the Palestinian leaders’ citizenship now.

(full article online)

Jordan Moves to Revoke Mahmoud Abbas's Citizenship | HonestReporting


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## Sixties Fan

[ Arab first, Christian second, Palestinian third )


“We must liberate Americans from the Zionist lobby,” she told Fishkoff, in what she said was her first interview with an American Jewish publication. “People are very misinformed. Raising awareness for Americans is very important.”

Zoabi blasted American left-wing, progressive Jews in the interview for not completely giving up their support for Israel.

“Anyone who is not anti-Zionist, who perceives himself as a left-wing Zionist, must recognize their complicity in the tragedy of the Palestinians,” Zoabi said. “You are either anti-Zionist and realize the colonialist dimension of Israel as a Jewish state, or you have to take responsibility for the oppression of the Palestinians.”

Zoabi called for the dissolving Israel and replacing it with either two states – one secular, one Palestinian – or, ideally, one binational secular state with self-determination for both Jews and Palestinians. She said Jews outside Israel had no claim on that land and never did. But “70 years of reality” but Jews inside Israel were a fact on the ground and had rights.

(full article online)

Zoabi: Liberate US Jews from Zionist lobby


----------



## Sixties Fan

Describing the problem of the spread of marijuana nurseries in the Palestinian Authority, the chief of Tulkarem Police, Azzam Jabara, claimed “Israel is the number one cause of the spread of drugs in the Palestinian areas” and that this is done deliberately to destroy the Palestinian future:

“Tulkarem Police Chief Azzam Jabara said that Israel is the main cause of the spread of the [marijuana] nurseries and [its] distribution in Palestinian society...
He explained that the occupation (i.e., PA euphemism for Israel) intentionally does not pursue those who distribute drugs in the Palestinian territories, despite it knowing who they are, and this is while those who distribute them among the Jews are arrested and severe measures are taken against them. He added that this proves that* the occupation is the number one cause of the spread of drugs in the Palestinian areas, in order to destroy the young generations and thus destroy the whole society*."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 23, 2018]

This allegation is often made by the PA. Palestinian Media Watch reported earlier this year that PA Chairman Abbas said that “Israel is exporting drugs to us in frightening amounts.” 





(full article online)

PA police libel: Israel “is the number one cause of the spread of drugs in the Palestinian areas” - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

Every once in a while there will be a feel-good article about an initiative like Seeds of Peace. But the news story that you will almost never see is how the Palestinians are so dead-set against these programs.

And so is UNRWA!

The best synopsis of the problems that Seeds of Peace and similar programs have in the territories comes buried in the middle of this 2014 Haaretz article on the group:

" The idea of bringing together ordinary Israelis, Palestinians and others from conflict zones in a neutral setting so they can meet and get to know each other across the sectarian divide is such an obviously good idea that few in Israel have dared to challenge its basic assumptions.

Not so on the Palestinian side, where any hint of “normalization” with the Israeli occupier has become a crippling curse. The Seeds of Peace center in Jerusalem was closed at the start of the Second Intifada after Palestinian schools, _including those operated by UNRWA_, refused to endorse their pupils participating in its activities."

(full article online)

Why doesn't the media report on Palestinians rejecting coexistence programs like Seeds of Peace? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Transfer UNRWA’s Responsibilities to Whom?


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## Sixties Fan

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/palestinian-authority-loses-authority/


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## Sixties Fan

PA president Abbas' official spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeina, said that any alternative peace plan to the minimum Palestinian demand for Jerusalem, 1967 lines, "right of return"  and so forth is doomed to failure and will be rejected outright.

But then he added the mob-style threat that every PLO and PA and Fatah leader always adds, saying that any peace plan that doesn't adhere to the Palestinian demands  "will create more tension and instability in the region and the world."

You can almost hear him saying, "We don't want you to get hurt, see?"

Western leaders simply ignore these threats, as if they weren't an admission that Palestinians and their supporters are violent, irrational people who will instigate violence unless they are mollified with every demand fully met. People just waiting for the signal to come out and start a war or a terror spree.

(full article online)

Palestinian Mafia: Abbas' spokesman again threatens the world if they don't get what they demand ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Look How Palestinians Treat The Site Of Judaism's Holiest Place


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## Sixties Fan

Dead Hamas commander in Malaysia was part of a major terror family ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

[ What the conflict has always been about -  retaking Muslim conquered territory  ]

Using the  term “Palestine Cause” rather than “Palestinian cause” indicates the Arab world now intends focusing on recovering territory lost in the 1967 Six Day War without necessarily creating another Palestinian Arab state.

(full article online)

April's Arab Summit: A surprise for PLO, Jordan and Israel


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Every once in a while there will be a feel-good article about an initiative like Seeds of Peace. But the news story that you will almost never see is how the Palestinians are so dead-set against these programs.
> 
> And so is UNRWA!
> 
> The best synopsis of the problems that Seeds of Peace and similar programs have in the territories comes buried in the middle of this 2014 Haaretz article on the group:
> 
> " The idea of bringing together ordinary Israelis, Palestinians and others from conflict zones in a neutral setting so they can meet and get to know each other across the sectarian divide is such an obviously good idea that few in Israel have dared to challenge its basic assumptions.
> 
> Not so on the Palestinian side, where any hint of “normalization” with the Israeli occupier has become a crippling curse. The Seeds of Peace center in Jerusalem was closed at the start of the Second Intifada after Palestinian schools, _including those operated by UNRWA_, refused to endorse their pupils participating in its activities."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why doesn't the media report on Palestinians rejecting coexistence programs like Seeds of Peace? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


An Israeli and a Palestinian can be the best of friends, but the Israeli will go home to his cush settlement and the Palestinian will go home to find his house has been demolished.

So, what is the point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every once in a while there will be a feel-good article about an initiative like Seeds of Peace. But the news story that you will almost never see is how the Palestinians are so dead-set against these programs.
> 
> And so is UNRWA!
> 
> The best synopsis of the problems that Seeds of Peace and similar programs have in the territories comes buried in the middle of this 2014 Haaretz article on the group:
> 
> " The idea of bringing together ordinary Israelis, Palestinians and others from conflict zones in a neutral setting so they can meet and get to know each other across the sectarian divide is such an obviously good idea that few in Israel have dared to challenge its basic assumptions.
> 
> Not so on the Palestinian side, where any hint of “normalization” with the Israeli occupier has become a crippling curse. The Seeds of Peace center in Jerusalem was closed at the start of the Second Intifada after Palestinian schools, _including those operated by UNRWA_, refused to endorse their pupils participating in its activities."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why doesn't the media report on Palestinians rejecting coexistence programs like Seeds of Peace? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli and a Palestinian can be the best of friends, but the Israeli will go home to his cush settlement and the Palestinian will go home to find his house has been demolished.
> 
> So, what is the point?
Click to expand...


Those quaint witticisms are so cute. Did you steal them fom YouTube?


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every once in a while there will be a feel-good article about an initiative like Seeds of Peace. But the news story that you will almost never see is how the Palestinians are so dead-set against these programs.
> 
> And so is UNRWA!
> 
> The best synopsis of the problems that Seeds of Peace and similar programs have in the territories comes buried in the middle of this 2014 Haaretz article on the group:
> 
> " The idea of bringing together ordinary Israelis, Palestinians and others from conflict zones in a neutral setting so they can meet and get to know each other across the sectarian divide is such an obviously good idea that few in Israel have dared to challenge its basic assumptions.
> 
> Not so on the Palestinian side, where any hint of “normalization” with the Israeli occupier has become a crippling curse. The Seeds of Peace center in Jerusalem was closed at the start of the Second Intifada after Palestinian schools, _including those operated by UNRWA_, refused to endorse their pupils participating in its activities."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why doesn't the media report on Palestinians rejecting coexistence programs like Seeds of Peace? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli and a Palestinian can be the best of friends, but the Israeli will go home to his cush settlement and the Palestinian will go home to find his house has been demolished.
> 
> So, what is the point?
Click to expand...


Or the Jew can find himself raped and expelled from his town as the payment for "protection" wans't enough to hold that "friendship".

I'm saying as a member of a family that held business almost continuously for the last 100 years with one Arab family, and this is something we both agree upon.

The friendship You're talking about only exists during and because both cultures value guest honor as a highest form of virtue. Once we're outside the walls of each others' house we know what are the forms of each culture.

This sums up the whole of the conflict - who's the guest and who's the house owner.

Simple, true and devastating. Middle East.


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## rylah

P F Tinmore

The point is that going back to the same conditions that harbored the civil war is not a solution in anyway.
 Hippy visions are only good for the west, if at all.


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## Sixties Fan

Hamas blamed the Palestinian Authority on Saturday for the attempt to assassinate the PA’s own prime minister, Rami Hamdallah, in the Gaza Strip last month.

(full article online)

Hamas: PA bombed its own prime minister to ‘kill reconciliation’


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## Sixties Fan

It is worth remembering that the entire reason the UN and many nations recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinians is because of Oslo, especially the letter than Yasir Arafat wrote recognizing Israel and repudiating terror.

If the PLO decides to nullify its recognition of Israel, then shouldn't it be kicked out of the UN?

The answer is, obviously it won't, because the second Intifada that the PLO wholeheartedly supported didn't even cause the slightest ripple in the world's support for the terror

(full article online)

PLO "Palestinian National Council" to meet tomorrow, might call to sever ties with Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

The silence of the PA leadership regarding the tragic fate of their so-called Palestinian brethren in Syria is because they feel no brethren-ship.  After all, as they say of themselves, they are from Egypt, Syria or Saudi Arabia. There is no such thing as a Palestinian.


Therefore, why should they care about what happens to unrelated people in another Arab country? Let the Egyptian leadership worry about the Palestinians who are really Egyptian; let the Saudi Arabian leadership worry about the Palestinians who are really Saudis. And the Palestinians who are really Syrian? Caught in their own civil war. Oh well.

(full article online)

Here is why the PA does not care about Palestinians killed in Syria - Israel Diaries


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## Sixties Fan

Abu Jihad, responsible for killing 125 was: 

"A soul that still dwells in our hearts" "a battleship," "great" "unique commander" "fearless," "provided an example of heroism and loyalty" "sacrificed" 

His attacks were:

 "Acts of heroism" "prominent operations" "self-sacrificing operations" "shattered the occupation's mentality" "a school for struggle"

Therefore: 

"This great man should not leave our minds or the consciousness of these great generations" "We draw confidence, a spirit of sacrifice, and a desire to continue the struggle from this magnificent anniversary" 

"His path and history will remain in our hearts forever"

And the Student union at Al-Quds Open University held: 

"The Prince of Martyrs Khalil Al-Wazir 'Abu Jihad' Tournament"






(full article online)

Endless superlatives to honor a Palestinian killer, in official PA and Fatah media - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> It is worth remembering that the entire reason the UN and many nations recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinians is because of Oslo, especially the letter than Yasir Arafat wrote recognizing Israel and repudiating terror.
> 
> If the PLO decides to nullify its recognition of Israel, then shouldn't it be kicked out of the UN?
> 
> The answer is, obviously it won't, because the second Intifada that the PLO wholeheartedly supported didn't even cause the slightest ripple in the world's support for the terror
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO "Palestinian National Council" to meet tomorrow, might call to sever ties with Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



To my knowledge no member state has ever been expelled from the UN. Here have been instances of suspension. 

So it seems unlikely.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Channel 10, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman tells American Jewish leaders the Palestinians must accept the peace offers presented to them or “be quiet and stop complaining.”

The Palestinian leadership, over the past four decades, has “squandered opportunities again and again” to reach a peace deal, he is quoted as saying.

(full article online)

TV: Saudi crown prince blasts Abbas, says Palestinians must stop ‘complaining’


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Bundestag resolution “decidedly rejected” the anti-Israel Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, and said that whoever wants to live in Germany, “even if only temporarily,” must recognize Israel’s right to exist — likely a reference to suspected imported anti-Semitism by more than a million refugees from Muslim countries who entered Germany in 2015.

“Israel’s right to exist and security are for us non-negotiable,” the resolution read, reiterating Merkel’s statement, made in 2008 in the Knesset, that Israel’s security is part of Germany’s “raison d’etre.”

(full article online)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-slams-german-parliament-for-endorsing-israel-as-jewish-state/


----------



## Sixties Fan

The antisemitic Palestinian Authority narrative that Zionism was a European scheme to get rid of the Jews, because Jews were damaging European society, was repeated last week by a senior advisor of PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. Mahmoud Al-Habbash charged that after WWII Europe supported the establishment of Israel because they "wanted to get rid of the presence of the Jews of Europe."  

Al-Habbash, one of the most important religious figures in the PA, repeated the PA narrative that the European animosity toward the Jews was because the Jews "had a monopoly over the economy and capital" - a particularly absurd accusation following WWII, and the destruction of most of European Jewry in the Nazi concentration camps. 

*Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Abbas' Advisor on Religious and Islamic Affairs:*
"After World War II ended, the colonialist states wanted to get rid of the presence of the Jews of Europe, who had a monopoly over the economy and capital. Therefore, they supported these claims and helped them establish their state on the land of Palestine at the expense of the Palestinian people, who are still suffering from this crime."

[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 24, 2018]

(full article online)

Europe's desire to get rid of remaining Jews after WWII made it support Zionism, says Abbas advisor  - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

UNRWA has expressed shock at the destruction and human cost of the ongoing battle.

The regime had warned armed fighters in the camp that it would assault them this month. ISIS claimed many of its men had left, leaving HTS and other extremist factions behind to face the assault.

On April 19, the Syrian regime, and some allied Palestinian militia began to shell the Yarmouk neighborhood.

Once home to 160,000 people, it has been gutted and reduced to rubble over the last years as it was under siege.

Many of the Palestinians who once lived there have fled, but estimates noted that thousands still remained.

(full article online)

Syrian regime bombing Palestinian camp to root out ISIS


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Lest the world forget, what the Arabs of Palestine Mandate were doing during WWII 
Photos and Documents of Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood  ]


Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Monday said that the Holocaust was not caused by anti-Semitsm, but by the “social behavior” of the Jews, including money-lending.

In a long and rambling at speech in Ramallah at a rare session of the Palestinian National Council, Abbas touched on a number of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories during what he called a “history lesson,” as he sought to prove the 3,000 year-old Jewish connection to the Land of Israel is false.

(full article online)

Abbas says Jews’ behavior, not anti-Semitism, caused the Holocaust


----------



## Sixties Fan

The arrests came after Israel Police and Shin Bet became aware of the plan to open fire on IDF service personnel at a bus stop outside *Oranit*, an Israeli community close to Rosh Ha'ayin. A town of about 9,000 residents, it straddles the 1948 ceasefire line - the so-called Kav Hayarok or Green Line. It's located about 30 kilometers (say, 20 miles) from Israel's business center, Tel Aviv.

It emerged from the interrogation, as well, that 
Atun and Amira traveled to Turkey last year to visit Hamas figures Mahmoud Atun and Musa Azari [sic], who were exiled under the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange, and received thousands of dollars to help fund the attack.The name "Musa Azari" might be a mistake. We suspect it should have been *Musa al-Akari* about whom we posted *this*

In a conversation with Ynet, the terrorist's 16-year-old son, Hamza, said he looked up to his father's acts. *"I'm proud of my father. I'm not sad that he died a martyr."* The police agreed for the family to bury al-Akari at midnight in the presence of up to 35 people... *The terrorist's brother is Musa al-Akari, a prisoner released in the Shalit deal* and deported to Turkey. He was a member of the Hamas cell that murdered border police officer Nissim Toledano in 1992. Al-Akari, 38, a father of five from the Shuafat refugee camp, arrived at the Light Rail station in the afternoon and ran over anyone who crossed his path. He was shot to death by a border police team that was on site after he exited the vehicle and attempted to attack passersby. Hamas has taken responsibility for the attack. [*Ynet*. November 5, 2014]
The *Atun* brothers of Sur Baher have a long and deep history of terrorist activity. 

In addition to Izz al-Din Atun indicted today, there are 
Munir Marwat Atun and his brother the well-named Jihad Atun who were both arrested for being members of another terrorist/shooter cell seven years ago ["_Shin Bet Nabbed Five Members of Hamas-linked Terror Cell in Jerusalem_", *Haaretz*, April 8, 2011]. 
A fourth brother, Mahmoud Atun was serving a life sentence in 2011 for murdering three Israelis, including (as noted above) Border Police Sgt.-Maj. Nissim Toledano, 29, in December 1992. After being incomprehensibly freed by Israel in the catastrophic Shalit Deal of October 2011, he's now one of the Hamas king-pins who freely orchestrate murderous attacks on Israelis from their Turkish safe haven.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 01-May-18: Again, Shalit Deal 'graduates' are behind a major but thwarted Arab-on-Israeli terror attack


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## Sixties Fan

[  The question remains.....why doesn't the PA build its own electricity infrastructure .....billions given gone to waste ]

“This anchor agreement not only constitutes an unprecedented financial achievement; it also constitutes an important milestone in regulating electricity commercial relations between the Israeli and Palestinian electric companies.”

Energy and Infrastructure Minister Yuval Steinitz called the settlement a “breakthrough, both in the measures for payment of the Palestinian debt to IEC and Israel, and in arranging future relations to prevent more debts from emerging in the future. With the signing of the agreement, we will be able to make progress with the Palestinians in developing a modern electrical grid according to the model of the sub-station we inaugurated in Jenin.”

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Settles Electricity Debt with Israel, Signs New Power Deal


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

HAMAS’ FAKE NEWS: How Terrorists Exploit Children to Slander Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

PA officials told Al-Hayat that Abbas plans to ask the PNC to freeze its recognition of Israel and suspend the agreements signed with the Jewish State until it recognizes the state of Palestine.

A member of the Executive Committee of the PLO, Dr. Ahmad Majdalani, said that “the PLO will take a decision to stop the financing of the coup” in Gaza, explaining: “We will take the decisions that we had to take 11 years ago when the coup took place.”

“The time has come for the Palestinian Authority to stop funding the Hamas rule, because this is the only way to end the division,” he said.

(full article online)

Report: PA to Freeze Recognition of Israel, Dry Up Hamas


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## Sixties Fan

Germany’s foreign minister Wednesday condemned a speech by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in which he claimed that the Holocaust was the result of Jews’ own “social behavior” rather than anti-Semitism.

Heiku Maas tweeted that Germany was responsible for “one of the worst crimes in history, and, “therefore, we must respond resolutely to any anti-Semitic expression,” he said, linking to an article about Abbas’s Monday night speech.

Abbas, who has faced accusations of anti-Semitism in the past, suggested in an address to a meeting of the Palestinian National Council on Monday night that Jews’ relations with banking had led to hostility against them. The speech has sparked outrage in Israel.

The incendiary content of Abbas’s Monday speech, which was reported by The Times of Israel late that night, was not included in the official Palestinian news agency’s English press release about his address or in most initial international coverage of his speech.

In an unusual move, the European Union also condemned Abbas for “unacceptable remarks” he made in the speech.

“The speech Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas delivered on 30 April contained unacceptable remarks concerning the origins of the Holocaust and Israel’s legitimacy,” a spokesman for the EU’s diplomatic service said in a statement.

“Such rhetoric will only play into the hands of those who do not want a two-state solution, which President Abbas has repeatedly advocated.”

The EU stressed the importance of Holocaust education in minimizing hatred, and rejected any forms of anti-Semitism.

“The Holocaust and World War Two have defined Europe’s modern history like no other event. Holocaust education remains central to building up resilience against all forms of hatred in our societies,” the statement read. “Anti-Semitism is not only a threat for Jews but a fundamental menace to our open and liberal societies. The European Union remains committed to combat any form of anti-Semitism and any attempt to condone, justify or grossly trivialize the Holocaust.”

The condemnation was unusual, as a few months ago the same body refused to comment on a controversial speech by Abbas, saying it wouldn’t respond to speeches.

The United Nations envoy to the region also condemned Abbas, saying that he “chose to use his speech at the opening of the Palestinian National Council to repeat some of the most contemptuous anti-Semitic slurs.”

(full article online)

Germany slams Abbas for ‘anti-Semitic’ remarks; EU, UN call speech unacceptable


----------



## Sixties Fan

EU doesn't condemn Abbas' antisemitic remarks - it downplays them, and praises him as a peacemaker ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> EU doesn't condemn Abbas' antisemitic remarks - it downplays them, and praises him as a peacemaker ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


What antisemitic remarks?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> EU doesn't condemn Abbas' antisemitic remarks - it downplays them, and praises him as a peacemaker ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> What antisemitic remarks?
Click to expand...


He basically blamed the Jews for the Holocaust and every pogrom they suffered.
Said Jews brought it upon themselves because they're socially misfit. and because of rich Jews.

He closed that banal circus -with a speech about "there're no Jewish people"...while talking about the 'Jewish problem". 


If he had a Swastika sticking out of his bottom You'd still refuse to acknowledge it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who we are, why we’re here: Israeli author explains Zionism to the Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PFLP terror group issued a statement about how bad things are in Gaza.

Unlike Western reports that automatically blame everything on Israel, this Arabic statement accurately places the blame on the party that is responsible - the Palestinian Authority.
----

The PFLP is not exactly Zionist. But they see the situation in Gaza and who is responsible - not Israel's "blockade." The PA has been systematically cutting services to Gaza for over a year now and the Western press rarely reports about it, because Arabs are expected to act with callous disregard to other Arab lives.

(full article online)

Gazans know that the PA - not Israel - is responsible for their problems.  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fayez Rashid, writing in Al Watan, supported Abbas' words about Jews as well, saying that they were historical facts supported by Jews like Ilan Pappe. He is no Fatah flunky though - the bulk of his article criticized the rest of Abbas' speech. 

The condemnations of Abbas' antisemitism by the UN and Israel were covered extensively in Arabic language media over the past day.

As usual, one needs to look at what they don't say as well as what they do.  I did not find a single Arabic-language media source that condemned or even chided Abbas for his absurd and offensive statement about Jews. The tone of the articles is more along the lines of how pro-Jewish the West is by making a big deal over Abbas' words.

This incident is not just an indictment of Abbas' Jew-hatred. The complete lack of condemnation, and the tacit support offered by some, shows that antisemitism is a fundamental part of the Arab worldview.

(full article online)

Arab officials and media defend Abbas' antisemitism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

On April 26, 2018, Defense for Children International – Palestine’s (DCI-P) International Advocacy Officer Brad Parker spoke in Ottawa. Alongside UN Special Rapporteur Michael Lynk and leader of the Green Party of Canada Elizabeth May, the event “Rights under Endless Occupation: Israel/Palestine Discussion,” was hosted by the Mennonite Central Committee and the United Church of Canada.

Parker’s presentation repeated the false claims and methodological flaws that are typical of DCI-P’s advocacy and reports (see NGO Monitor’s “No Way to Represent a Child: Defense for Children International – Palestine’s Distortions of the Israeli Justice System”).

At one point, Parker outright lied to the audience. He described a theoretical scenario where he threw a rock at a car as it is driving, thereby breaking its window. Parker stated that he “might” get arrested, and proceeds to ask the audience if he would go to jail. The audience remained largely silent, so Parker answered for them, with “no.”

In contrast to Parker’s statements and his minimization of violence, according to Canada’s Criminal Code (430(2)), “Every one who commits mischief that causes actual danger to life is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to *imprisonment for life*” (emphasis added). Indeed, there are numerous cases in Canada where both minors and adults have thrown stones and been charged with “mischief endangering life,” and therefore faced this maximum sentence.

Here are a few examples:


In December 2016, two teens (aged 13 and 14) from Peterborough, Ontario were charged “after rocks thrown from a highway overpass smashed through windshields.” They were charged with 15 counts of “mischief endangering life.”
(full article online)

So you can’t go to jail for throwing stones in Canada, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Who we are, why we’re here: Israeli author explains Zionism to the Palestinians


There is already a good book on Zionism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Following PMW's report, 14 members of Congress sent a letter to the Secretary of State citing the documentation in PMW's report, and concluding: "... we urge you to immediately suspend all aid payments to the Palestinian Authority." [_Washington Free Beacon_, May 1, 2018]

PMW's report exposed that the Palestinian Authority budget for 2018 includes payments to terrorists and the families of so-called "Martyrs." PMW's report also included the following statement by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas explicitly rejecting America's demands to stop paying salaries to terrorist prisoners:

_From PMW's report p. 2:_

Even before the Taylor Force Act (TFA) was signed into law and before the PA demonstrated its rejection through its budget, the PA publicly announced that it rejected the demands of the TFA:

a)   *PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas to the PLO Central Council:*
*"There is something that the Americans are telling us to stop - the salaries of the Martyrs and the Martyrs' families. Of course, we categorically reject this.* We will not under any circumstances allow anyone to harm the families of the prisoners, the wounded, and the Martyrs. They are our children and they are our families. *They honor us, and we will continue to pay them before the living.*" 
[Official PA TV, Jan. 14, 2018]

(full article online)

14 Members of Congress call to stop aid to PA, citing PMW documentation - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shabak Fauda-Style Arrest Uncovers Hamas Money Smuggling Cell


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anger as Palestinian Authority Cuts Gaza Salaries and Pays Late


----------



## Sixties Fan

Explosives hurled at IDF troops guarding Jewish worshipers in Nablus


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## Sixties Fan

Democracy, Palestinian style:

Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.

The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.

The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.

(full article online)

A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

_I didn't say anything wrong. I have nothing to apologize for. Honestly, I am mystified about why what I said offended anyone, but, you know, Jews control the media so they made a big deal over this in order to discredit me. However, I know that I'm expected to apologize for something, so I'll just say that I'm sorry you decided to interpret my comments in a way that offends you. (See what I did there?)_

_Of course I respect Judaism and Christianity, because the Koran says that they are divine religions. However, the place for Christians and Jews in the Muslim world, and in Palestine in particular,  is as second class citizens at best.
_
  “I would also like to reiterate our long held condemnation of the Holocaust, as the most heinous crime in history, and express our sympathy with its victims.”
_
The Holocaust was heinous because it prompted Jews to come to Palestine and the UN to allow Israel to become a state. The Palestinian Arab exodus from Palestine is the real catastrophe (Nakba.) Therefore, the Palestinians are the major victims of the Holocaust and I express sympathy for them._

 “Likewise, we condemn anti-Semitism in all its forms, and confirm our commitment to the two-state solution, and to live side by side in peace and security.”
_
Arabs are Semites, so therefore we are against anti-Semitism. As I said in my speech, Jews aren't Semites - they descend from the Khazars.  So anti-Semitism is anti-Arabism, and Jews are the world's biggest anti-Semites. _

_I have not retracted my statement that Jewish conduct is what brought the Holocaust upon them.  I still believe that the people that call themselves Jews today have no historic rights to Israel. I still believe that the Jews who came to Palestine intended to build a colonialist outpost in the Middle East, not the nonsense of "return to Zion."  I still believe that there were no massacres of any Jews by Arabs in history. I still maintain that the Arabs who killed scores of  Jews in 1920, 1921, 1929 and 1936 were "revolutionaries" and heroes, not murderers. _

_I said all of those things in my speech and I have not backed down one iota from any of those points. _

_But I will allow "Israel" - not a Jewish state, but "Israel" - the right to exist until we are strong enough by any means to defeat them and claim all the land that is rightfully ours._

If anyone can find anything that Abbas ever said that contradicts my explanation of his words, I will be happy to correct it. But everything I wrote in italics here reflects mainstream Palestinian Arab thought - and it is deeply and endemically antisemitic.

(full article online)

No, Abbas didn't apologize. Here's what he said and what he means. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

At least five said killed as large explosion rocks central Gaza


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Democracy, Palestinian style:
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.
> 
> The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?

I didn't think so.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy, Palestinian style:
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.
> 
> The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...

11 years ago does not matter.

What matters is now

PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy, Palestinian style:
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.
> 
> The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 11 years ago does not matter.
> 
> What matters is now
> 
> PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader
Click to expand...

They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy, Palestinian style:
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.
> 
> The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 11 years ago does not matter.
> 
> What matters is now
> 
> PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.
Click to expand...

Abbas has news for you.

"I am the President, still "  says Abbas

Are you actually going to contradict him?
Who has been the President since 2009?

Gives a hint.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy, Palestinian style:
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.
> 
> The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 11 years ago does not matter.
> 
> What matters is now
> 
> PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas has news for you.
> 
> "I am the President, still "  says Abbas
> 
> Are you actually going to contradict him?
> Who has been the President since 2009?
> 
> Gives a hint.
Click to expand...

Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Abbas, with the help of the US and Israel, has blocked that process.


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy, Palestinian style:
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas heads the PLO Executive Committee. the Executive Committee hand-picks the members of the PLO National Council.. The Council then chooses members of the Executive Committee. The EC then elects the chairman of the committee - Abbas.
> 
> The PLO Executive Committee is the government of the "State of Palestine" recognized by the UN.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is politically meaningless, even though Abbas heads that as well. Of course, he was "elected" to that symbolic position back in 2005, and there have been no elections since.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A lesson in Palestinian Arab "democracy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 11 years ago does not matter.
> 
> What matters is now
> 
> PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas has news for you.
> 
> "I am the President, still "  says Abbas
> 
> Are you actually going to contradict him?
> Who has been the President since 2009?
> 
> Gives a hint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Abbas, with the help of the US and Israel, has blocked that process.
Click to expand...

You cannot figure out why Abbas wants to stay in power and how?

And are you actually saying that you would prefer Hamas in power in Judea and Samaria?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that Abbas left the government in 2007?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 11 years ago does not matter.
> 
> What matters is now
> 
> PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas has news for you.
> 
> "I am the President, still "  says Abbas
> 
> Are you actually going to contradict him?
> Who has been the President since 2009?
> 
> Gives a hint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Abbas, with the help of the US and Israel, has blocked that process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot figure out why Abbas wants to stay in power and how?
> 
> And are you actually saying that you would prefer Hamas in power in Judea and Samaria?
Click to expand...

Abbas is pliable old fool. That is why he is loved in the West.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 11 years ago does not matter.
> 
> What matters is now
> 
> PLO convention affirms Abbas, 83, as unchallenged leader
> 
> 
> 
> They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas has news for you.
> 
> "I am the President, still "  says Abbas
> 
> Are you actually going to contradict him?
> Who has been the President since 2009?
> 
> Gives a hint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Abbas, with the help of the US and Israel, has blocked that process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot figure out why Abbas wants to stay in power and how?
> 
> And are you actually saying that you would prefer Hamas in power in Judea and Samaria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is pliable old fool. That is why he is loved in the West.
Click to expand...

I see.  You do not want to answer my other question.

Hamas WOULD be better than Abbas and Fatah in Judea and Samaria, then.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can say what the want but Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and his term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas has news for you.
> 
> "I am the President, still "  says Abbas
> 
> Are you actually going to contradict him?
> Who has been the President since 2009?
> 
> Gives a hint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Abbas, with the help of the US and Israel, has blocked that process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot figure out why Abbas wants to stay in power and how?
> 
> And are you actually saying that you would prefer Hamas in power in Judea and Samaria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is pliable old fool. That is why he is loved in the West.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see.  You do not want to answer my other question.
> 
> Hamas WOULD be better than Abbas and Fatah in Judea and Samaria, then.
Click to expand...

It is not up to me. The Palestinians voted for Hamas because Fatah sucked big time.

Who knows. Hamas could have been voted out by now if it wasn't for foreign interference in their election process.


----------



## rylah

After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?

No wonder Pro-Palis are silent on Syria...


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?


What civil war?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas has news for you.
> 
> "I am the President, still "  says Abbas
> 
> Are you actually going to contradict him?
> Who has been the President since 2009?
> 
> Gives a hint.
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Abbas, with the help of the US and Israel, has blocked that process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot figure out why Abbas wants to stay in power and how?
> 
> And are you actually saying that you would prefer Hamas in power in Judea and Samaria?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is pliable old fool. That is why he is loved in the West.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see.  You do not want to answer my other question.
> 
> Hamas WOULD be better than Abbas and Fatah in Judea and Samaria, then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not up to me. The Palestinians voted for Hamas because Fatah sucked big time.
> 
> Who knows. Hamas could have been voted out by now if it wasn't for foreign interference in their election process.
Click to expand...


Who knows. Maybe someday you will learn that making silly excuses for Islamic terrorist franchises is not how grownups make rational decisions.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that civil war.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
Click to expand...



The war between to Palestinian Jihadi factions - PLO and Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
Click to expand...

There was no civil war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The war between to Palestinian Jihadi factions - PLO and Hamas
Click to expand...

That was an attack on the Palestinian Authority by Fatah.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
Click to expand...


Because Hamas shooting PLO isn't a civil war?

When I see Hamas shooting PLO mass demostrations in Gaza...it's clearly not peace talks:

Q. So when did any of the Jihadi fractions ever organize real ELECTIONS?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
Click to expand...


You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.
Click to expand...

Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the following refers to the civil war that Tinmore insists never occurred, at least in that alternate reality called the *Tinmore Vortex*™️


Can Anyone End the Palestinian Civil War?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.
Click to expand...


Of course not. It was a civil war.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The war between to Palestinian Jihadi factions - PLO and Hamas
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was an attack on the Palestinian Authority by Fatah.
Click to expand...

What "authority"? By Your own words those who hold the title have no authority.
And those who have the authority call the others lunatics.

The only thing with authority inside Palestinian politics is -MESS.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. It was a civil war.
Click to expand...


Hamas vs. Fatah: The Palestinian Civil War |  					 				Foundation for Defense of Democracies


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Hamas shooting PLO isn't a civil war?
> 
> When I see Hamas shooting PLO mass demostrations in Gaza...it's clearly not peace talks:
> 
> Q. So when did any of the Jihadi fractions ever organize real ELECTIONS?
Click to expand...

The speaker of parliament is to call for elections. Abbas padlocked parliament and installed guards.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Hamas shooting PLO isn't a civil war?
> 
> When I see Hamas shooting PLO mass demostrations in Gaza...it's clearly not peace talks:
> 
> Q. So when did any of the Jihadi fractions ever organize real ELECTIONS?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The speaker of parliament is to call for elections. Abbas padlocked parliament and installed guards.
Click to expand...


I'll act surprised...

So neither of the Palestinian Jihadi fractions held real elections?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the civil war, when did any of those Jihadi leaders ever organize elections?
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Hamas shooting PLO isn't a civil war?
> 
> When I see Hamas shooting PLO mass demostrations in Gaza...it's clearly not peace talks:
> 
> Q. So when did any of the Jihadi fractions ever organize real ELECTIONS?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The speaker of parliament is to call for elections. Abbas padlocked parliament and installed guards.
Click to expand...

It is called being a DICTATOR.

Because that is what there is with the PLO/ PA

DICTATORSHIP

Oh, by the way.....

SAME Thing with HAMAS  (the Dictators dujour in Gaza)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. It was a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas vs. Fatah: The Palestinian Civil War |                                       Foundation for Defense of Democracies
Click to expand...

So you post a dumbfuck propaganda site.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. It was a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas vs. Fatah: The Palestinian Civil War |                                       Foundation for Defense of Democracies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post a dumbfuck propaganda site.
Click to expand...

Sorry that your brain cannot work on debunking any of it


----------



## rylah

It's gonna be "blame the West"... in one or 2 posts.

Jihadi fractions never hold any responsibility. But ALL of the authority at the same time.
Who needs election with that poor cute kitten face?






Agha


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What civil war?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Hamas shooting PLO isn't a civil war?
> 
> When I see Hamas shooting PLO mass demostrations in Gaza...it's clearly not peace talks:
> 
> Q. So when did any of the Jihadi fractions ever organize real ELECTIONS?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The speaker of parliament is to call for elections. Abbas padlocked parliament and installed guards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is called being a DICTATOR.
> 
> Because that is what there is with the PLO/ PA
> 
> DICTATORSHIP
> 
> Oh, by the way.....
> 
> SAME Thing with HAMAS  (the Dictators dujour in Gaza)
Click to expand...


It’s a strange dynamic. In those exceedingly rare circumstances when Arabs-Moslems vote, they vote for theocratic dictators who have an odd habit of behaving like theocratic dictators.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, other than the civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. It was a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas vs. Fatah: The Palestinian Civil War |                                       Foundation for Defense of Democracies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post a dumbfuck propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry that your brain cannot work on debunking any of it
Click to expand...

Their first sentence was BS. I read no further.

In June 2007, the Palestinian terrorist organization launched a surprise coup in the Gaza Strip, wresting control of the territory from the Fatah faction, which controls the Palestinian Authority (PA).​
Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office. Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## Hollie

How strange that people were tortured and killed in many, clever ways by Islamics righting a civil war you clsim never occurred.


Hamas tortured, killed Palestinians, rights group charges - CNN.com

*From a 2009 article.

(CNN)* -- Amnesty International has accused Hamas militants in Gaza of kidnapping, killing and torturing fellow Palestinians they accuse of spying for Israel, the organization announced Tuesday.





Hamas supporters stand on the rubble of a building hit by an Israeli strike that killed Hamas' interior minister.





Hamas supporters stand on the rubble of a building hit by an Israeli strike that killed Hamas' interior minister.





According to Amnesty International, at least 24 Palestinian men -- most of them civilians -- were shot and killed by Hamas gunmen during the recent Israeli offensive aimed at crippling the Hamas leadership in Gaza.

"Scores of others have been shot in the legs, kneecapped or inflicted with other injuries intended to cause permanent disability," the human rights organization said in a news release.

During the Gaza conflict, medical officials at Gaza City's main medical facility, Shifa Hospital, said injuries they witnessed were consistent with people being shot in the kneecaps, elbows, hands or feet.

Punishment shootings are a time-tested tactic used worldwide by guerrilla and militia groups, from Che Guevara in Cuba to the Irish Republican Army in Northern Ireland. They are meant not only to take revenge but also to send a message to others.

Two self-described Fatah loyalists were found heavily bandaged at a Gaza City safe house during the recent conflict. One of their colleagues refused to say where or why they were injured, but they denied spying.

"They shot him at close range with a pistol," he said of one man. "His bones are shattered. They shot him point-blank in the foot. ... This was done by Hamas people."

The other man, he said, was struck on his legs with a metal construction bar. "Four people were beating him," he said.




Sounds like a party!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah attacking the Palestinian Authority was not a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. It was a civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas vs. Fatah: The Palestinian Civil War |                                       Foundation for Defense of Democracies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post a dumbfuck propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry that your brain cannot work on debunking any of it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their first sentence was BS. I read no further.
> 
> In June 2007, the Palestinian terrorist organization launched a surprise coup in the Gaza Strip, wresting control of the territory from the Fatah faction, which controls the Palestinian Authority (PA).​
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the elected government in office. Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
Click to expand...



Yep,
and just a month ago there was an attempt to murder the PM of this supposed authority.

So which authority exactly are You talking about - Hamas?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ USA, EU and others "donations" pay to kill Jews ]

Terrorists responsible for the murder of two Israeli families and two rabbis get more than 10 million shekels each, Defense Min. reveals.

(full article online)

How much do terrorists who murder Jews get paid?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Terrorists, good luck ]

The town of Efrat in Gush Etzion introduced their new counter-terrorism rapid response drone unit on Sunday. The unit’s goal is identify and locate suspected terrorists long before they reach the perimeter of the town, allowing for faster capture, while increasing the safety of the residents.

The impetus for introducing the drone project began after there was a noted increase in the number of attempted terrorist infiltrations into Efrat. Two of those infiltration attempts were successful, leaving two people injured. The concept was discussed and approved by the IDF, and the drone unit, all of whom are members of the town’s counter-terrorist unit, began quietly training a few months ago.

(full article online)

Efrat Launches First Counter-Terrorist Rapid Response Drone Unit in Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ For English Readers ]





And here's how it appears to Arabic-speaking readers, with stories of glorious martyrdom and terror attacks:





(full article online)

A bit of a difference between Hamas terror websites in English and Arabic ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 06-May-18: Explosive weekend in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Let's count the ways Abbas needed to apologize:

a. The Mufti was a partner in the murder of Jews during the Holocaust with Hitler and a supporter of Nazi ideology (not to mention the killing of Jews in Eretz-Yisrael in the previous years).

b. Abbas' doctorate is a classic Holocaust denial and revisionism tract.

c. As I noted already, he has apologized previously for the same content but keeps on saying the same things.

But did Jews bomb Berlin cafes, Hamburg supermarkets or Bavarian beer halls in an effort to dislodge Germans from their property, land and possessions to "deserve" gas chambers? Did Zionists term Arabs ideologically as untermenschen?

(full article online)

My Right Word: Nazi Insinuations


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why I’m grateful to Mahmoud Abbas | Abu Yehuda


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......

"Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]


Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report




Good. We want a ceasefire. Especially a long term one. 

I have no problem passing out carrots and candies as long as there is an compete end of the violence by Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report


Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.

Israel always rejects it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing. 

The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing.
> 
> The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing.
> 
> The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Sure. 

Rocket & Mortar Attacks Against Israel


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing.
> 
> The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


I did a Google search for you regarding Islamo-burrowing into israeli territory.

timeline of tunnel destruction by israel - Google Search


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing.
> 
> The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Rocket & Mortar Attacks Against Israel
Click to expand...

The ceasefire is meant to stop that. You can't reject a ceasefire and expect a ceasefire.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing.
> 
> The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


*When a “Cease-Fire” is Not a Cease-Fire

Hudna:* a tactical pause intended only for rearmament, a temporary respite in the war between Islamic forces and non-Islamic forces.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Sure, attempt to invade Israel several times for the past 6 weeks, and we do not know what is coming on May 14th, yet.......
> 
> "Let us have a ceasefire, how about it???? "   ]
> 
> 
> Hamas said to offer Israel long-term ceasefire in Gaza — report
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas put a long term ceasefire on the table over a decade ago.
> 
> Israel always rejects it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, those Islamic terrorist ceasefire terms always include the continuation of rocket attacks and tunnel burrowing.
> 
> The term you’re hoping to islamo-tap dance around is _Hudna_, not ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Rocket & Mortar Attacks Against Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ceasefire is meant to stop that. You can't reject a ceasefire and expect a ceasefire.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the data, terrorist Karim Fathi Lutfi Razek, who was convicted of murdering the Henkin family and sentenced to two life sentences and 30 years in prison, is earning NIS 40,600 under the auspices of the Palestinian Authority. The cumulative salary forecast at the age of 80 is no less than NIS 11,232,000.

According to Dagan, this is an absurdity. "It's impossible that the poor Palestinian Authority that receives money from the government of Israel and the European Union transfers the money to the murderers of Jews ... Today, the most profitable profession in the Authority is to murder Jews. Murdering a Jew brings 18,000 shekels - 14 times the amount a teacher makes, so Itamar Ben Gal's murderer, a man who wanders the streets aimlessly, receives a huge salary from the Authority."

(full article online)

'Most lucrative occupation is murdering Jews'


----------



## LA RAM FAN

montelatici said:


> I
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Iran does not have nuclear weapons.  Israel does have nuclear and  Israel also has the Samson option, where it is implied that they will try to destroy as much of the world as possible (enemies and allies) if  the Jewish state is threatened.
> 
> "In matters of nuclear strategy, it may sometimes be better to feign irrationality than to purposefully project complete rationality. Earlier, in IDF history, Moshe Dayan had genuinely understood this strangely counter-intuitive injunction:* “Israel must be like a mad dog,*” said Dayan, ” too dangerous to bother.“
> 
> Dayan was right. He knew what he was talking about."
> 
> The Jewish Press Samson Option
Click to expand...



you took him and all the other defenders of the zionists to school.

after this excellent post,the thread SHOULD be closed cause the shills can only sling shit in defeat like the monkey trolls they are.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch exposed that the PA chose Abu Hmeid to launch the PA's statehood campaign with the UN in 2011, and also honored her in 2010 and again in 2015. Recently, the official PA daily singled her out in a report on an event for mothers of "Martyrs."

In its report, official PA TV News also included a statement by Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki who, while standing with Abu Hmeid, praised her and her terrorist sons: 









"Um Nasser is a precious, mighty, and beloved woman. We identify with her and consider her children entrusted to us because they sacrificed their freedom for the Palestinian cause and people."

After the meeting, Um Nasser stated that Abbas had "emphasized that no peace agreement will be signed without all of the prisoners being released." She added that "the prisoners' cause is the heart of the conflict, and Israel is attempting to fight us through our children.'" [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 26, 2018

(full article online)

Abbas honors mother of 5 terrorists, including 2 murderers - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bill going after Palestinian pay-for-slay passes first reading


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Times reports that Hanan Ashrawi wants the international community to protect PLO payments to terrorists. 

Really.

" Member of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization Hanan Ashrawi condemned the Knesset vote on the first reading of a bill to deduct the salaries of prisoners and allocations of families of the martyrs of the tax revenues collected by Israel for the Palestinian government, describing it systematic and deliberate looting of the rights of our people.

Ashrawi said in a statement on behalf of the PLO: "The organization considers the legislation that Israel is launching in order to serve its occupation and continue its policy of eliminating the existence of our people on its land to be totally racist and inhuman."

At the end of her statement, Ashrawi called on the international community to take a serious view of Israeli violations and crimes, to stop the policy of disregard and negligence towards its crimes, to take deterrent and punitive measures against it and to hold it accountable for its ongoing crimes and violations and to provide urgent international protection to our unarmed people."


Yes, Hanan Ashrawi is defending paying terrorists as a human right.

(full article online)

Hanan Ashrawi calls on international community to defend PLO payments to terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an reports that  Jamal Moheisen, a member of Fatah's Central Committee, called on the Arab countries to implement a resolution of the February Arab summit that called on severing of diplomatic relations with any state that recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moves its embassy to it.

This would, of course, include America.

As usual, the Arabs talk big and have no intention of following through to support their Palestinian brethren.  The chances that any Arab nation will halt diplomatic relations with the US over Jerusalem are exactly zero.

Mahmoud Abbas is trying to convince Latin American countries not to follow the US lead, but as far as I can tell, without the naked threats.

The PLO and Palestinian leaders are so intoxicated by the fact that they can call a summit to "protect Jerusalem" on a moment's notice and get useless resolutions of support for their position, that they haven't noticed that the Arab world really doesn't care much about them at all.

Specifically, the Arab world is sick of the Hamas/Fatah infighting and does not want to throw good money after bad to prop up these drama queens.

(full article online)

Palestinian leader calls on Arabs to sever ties with US and any nation that recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Meet Palestine's Million-Dollar Killers


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Snapshots:  Hamas Telegram Channel Celebrates Bin Laden on the Anniversary of His Death


----------



## Sixties Fan

Did the Palestinians Ever Really Recognize Israel?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,



Sixties Fan said:


> Did the Palestinians Ever Really Recognize Israel?




*Israel-PLO Recognition:
Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat

1. LETTER FROM YASSER ARAFAT TO PRIME MINISTER RABIN:*

September 9, 1993

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

*The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.*

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators.

In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

Sincerely,

_Yasser Arafat_
Chairman
The Palestine Liberation Organization​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Palestinians Ever Really Recognize Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel-PLO Recognition:
> Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat
> 
> 1. LETTER FROM YASSER ARAFAT TO PRIME MINISTER RABIN:*
> 
> September 9, 1993
> 
> Yitzhak Rabin
> Prime Minister of Israel
> 
> Mr. Prime Minister,
> 
> The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:
> 
> *The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.*
> 
> The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.
> 
> The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.
> 
> The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators.
> 
> In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> _Yasser Arafat_
> Chairman
> The Palestine Liberation Organization​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Arafat recognized Israel without the consent of the people and without getting anything in return.


----------



## Sixties Fan

U.S. envoy Greenblatt: Hamas has taken Gaza back to the Stone Age


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> U.S. envoy Greenblatt: Hamas has taken Gaza back to the Stone Age


Where did Trump find all of these dumbfucks for his administration?

Did somebody give him a dumbfuck phone book when he was elected?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. envoy Greenblatt: Hamas has taken Gaza back to the Stone Age
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Trump find all of these dumbfucks for his administration?
> 
> Did somebody give him a dumbfuck phone book when he was elected?
Click to expand...

You would "win" more if you did not lower yourself to the level of the Jihadists, Nazis, Communists, etc.

But then....You ARE one of them.

"Winning" , ala Tinmore


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF destroys Hamas tunnel in northern Gaza, the 9th in a year


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza terror group releases video of blowing up Jewish houses ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza terror group releases video of blowing up Jewish houses ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



WTF?  Yeah, peace partners.  uh huh.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“We call on the young people to clash with the occupation forces at points of conflict and checkpoints,” said the National Committee for the Commemoration of the Nakba in its announcement on its Facebook page, adding their presence was a “national duty.”

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Begins Early ‘Nakba’ Events in Judea, Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  They rejected the offer. Too bad.  Too late. ]

The Palestinian Authority, however, has urged foreign diplomats to boycott Monday’s embassy unveiling, and called on the international community to react to the US embassy move by recognizing eastern Jerusalem as the PA capital.

PA spokesman Yousef al-Mahmoud called the US embassy move a violation of international law, the PA mouthpiece _WAFA_ reported Sunday.

“[This is] the most bizarre act undertaken by world leaders throughout history,” Mahmoud said of President Trump’s declaration on Jerusalem.

(full article online)

PA demands world recognize J'lem as its capital


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas condemned the opening of the American embassy in Jerusalem Monday as a "settlement."

Speaking at the start of a meeting of PA leadership in Ramallah, Abbas called the embassy "a new American settlement outpost in Jerusalem."

Abbas stated that the US recognition of Israel's capital means that "the United States is no longer a mediator in the peace process - the removal of Jerusalem and the refugees means an American slap [in our faces]."

(full article online)

Abbas: US embassy in Jerusalem a 'settlement'


----------



## Sixties Fan

*REAL REFUGEES?*

_Misconstruing failed aggressors for victims_. The notion of refugees and displaced persons has been invariably equated with unprovoked victimhood: being on the receiving end of aggression. Members of aggressing parties, including innocent civilians victimized as a result of their governments’ aggression, have been viewed as culprits, undeserving of humanitarian international support.

Thus, for example, not only did the IRO constitution deny refugee status to the millions of “persons of ethnic German origins” driven from their homes in the wake of the war—thereby forcing West (and East) Germany to resettle them in their territories at their expense—but it also singled out persons who “have voluntarily assisted the enemy forces since the outbreak of the second world war in their operations against the United Nations.” It moreover stipulated that Germany and Japan should pay, “to the extent practicable,” for repatriating the millions of people displaced as a result of their wartime aggression.[8] Likewise, Finland not only had to absorb the 400,000-plus Karelian refugees with no international support but was forced to pay massive reparations to Moscow for having assisted the German attack on the Soviet Union.








Child refugees at Wilhelmshaven, Germany. After World War II, Europe saw more than 16 million refugees and displaced persons. UNRWA received 110 times the funds for the 600,000 Palestinian refugees than the amount allocated for all other refugees throughout the world. The Germans as aggressors were not recognized as refugees, but the Palestinians were.


In contrast, the Palestinians and the Arab states have never been penalized for their “war of extermination and momentous massacre,” to use the words of Arab League secretary-general Abdul Rahman Azzam,[9] against the nascent state of Israel. Quite the reverse, in fact. Despite U.N. secretary-general Trygve Lie’s admonition that “the United Nations could not permit that aggression to succeed and at the same time survive as an influential force for peaceful settlement, collective security, and meaningful international law,”[10] the Palestinians and the Arab states were generously rewarded for that very aggression. The former have become the most privileged refugee group ever; the latter have been generously remunerated for hosting the displaced persons whose dispersal they caused in the first place.

This unprovoked war of aggression should have ipso facto precluded the Palestinians from refugee status, should have obliged them to compensate their Jewish and Israeli victims, and should have made their rehabilitation incumbent upon their leaders and the Arab regimes as with post-World War II Germany and collaborating parties. However, it did not. In addition, their designation as refugees also failed to satisfy the internationally accepted definition of this status in several other key respects.

(full article online)

The Privileged Palestinian "Refugees" | Middle East Forum


----------



## Sixties Fan

It’s always the same old story: #NoJewsNoNews – and the title of the piece should perhaps have been: “The Left And The Media Only Care About Palestinians When They Can Blame Israel.”

To her credit, Tsurkov highlights the hypocrisy of activists very clearly [my emphasis]:

“The silence surrounding the brutalization of an entire Palestinian population exposes something few have spoken about: that pro-Palestinian sentiment is often just anti-Israel or anti-American sentiment dressed up in disguise. And when it comes to Syria’s starving, dying Palestinian population, the pro-Palestine left is nowhere to be seen.”

“It’s a glaring double-standard: When Palestinians in Gaza endure Israeli airstrikes and a decade-long blockade, their suffering galvanizes mass protests in Western capitals. When Palestinians in Syria and Syrians are being bombed and starved, the anti-Imperialist Left either goes silent, or even worse, stands on the side of the oppressor.”

“’There are no ‘Pro-Palestine’ people. They don’t exist,’ a Palestinian Syrian from Daraa, whose family was displaced from Haifa during the 1948 war, told me. ‘We Palestinians of Syria have been killed, tortured, bombed, and displaced by the Assad regime and we’ve had no support from the so-called ‘pro-Palestine activists’ whatsoever ….We happen to be the wrong Palestinians!’”
---------
Another important point I was not really aware of is that Syrian opposition supporters have apparently increasingly negative views of Palestinians, because 

“all but one Palestinian armed group [in Syria] have fought on the side of the regime as auxiliary militias. These Palestinian pro-regime militias are responsible for grave human rights violations, including the siege of the Palestinian Yarmouk camp south of Damascus by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, which resulted in the death by starvation of dozens of people. Liwaa’ al-Quds (“the Jerusalem Brigade”) is infamous for its abuses of civilians, looting and war-profiteering in regime-controlled areas such as Aleppo city and eastern Ghouta.”

Yet, one should not underestimate the effects of decades of indoctrination. As Tsurkov points out towards the end, “even Syrians expressing admiration for Israel are quick to believe conspiracy theories about its motivations, plans and actions.”

(full article online)

“There are no ‘Pro-Palestine’ people. They don’t exist.” (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *REAL REFUGEES?*
> 
> _Misconstruing failed aggressors for victims_. The notion of refugees and displaced persons has been invariably equated with unprovoked victimhood: being on the receiving end of aggression. Members of aggressing parties, including innocent civilians victimized as a result of their governments’ aggression, have been viewed as culprits, undeserving of humanitarian international support.
> 
> Thus, for example, not only did the IRO constitution deny refugee status to the millions of “persons of ethnic German origins” driven from their homes in the wake of the war—thereby forcing West (and East) Germany to resettle them in their territories at their expense—but it also singled out persons who “have voluntarily assisted the enemy forces since the outbreak of the second world war in their operations against the United Nations.” It moreover stipulated that Germany and Japan should pay, “to the extent practicable,” for repatriating the millions of people displaced as a result of their wartime aggression.[8] Likewise, Finland not only had to absorb the 400,000-plus Karelian refugees with no international support but was forced to pay massive reparations to Moscow for having assisted the German attack on the Soviet Union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Child refugees at Wilhelmshaven, Germany. After World War II, Europe saw more than 16 million refugees and displaced persons. UNRWA received 110 times the funds for the 600,000 Palestinian refugees than the amount allocated for all other refugees throughout the world. The Germans as aggressors were not recognized as refugees, but the Palestinians were.
> 
> 
> In contrast, the Palestinians and the Arab states have never been penalized for their “war of extermination and momentous massacre,” to use the words of Arab League secretary-general Abdul Rahman Azzam,[9] against the nascent state of Israel. Quite the reverse, in fact. Despite U.N. secretary-general Trygve Lie’s admonition that “the United Nations could not permit that aggression to succeed and at the same time survive as an influential force for peaceful settlement, collective security, and meaningful international law,”[10] the Palestinians and the Arab states were generously rewarded for that very aggression. The former have become the most privileged refugee group ever; the latter have been generously remunerated for hosting the displaced persons whose dispersal they caused in the first place.
> 
> This unprovoked war of aggression should have ipso facto precluded the Palestinians from refugee status, should have obliged them to compensate their Jewish and Israeli victims, and should have made their rehabilitation incumbent upon their leaders and the Arab regimes as with post-World War II Germany and collaborating parties. However, it did not. In addition, their designation as refugees also failed to satisfy the internationally accepted definition of this status in several other key respects.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Privileged Palestinian "Refugees" | Middle East Forum





Sixties Fan said:


> This unprovoked war of aggression should have ipso facto precluded the Palestinians from refugee status,


You can't attack anybody from your home.

Think about it. It can't happen.


----------



## Hollie

As you woukd have expected, the more excitable of the muhammedans are already issuing threats relative to the US Embassy in Jerusalem. 


PALESTINIAN JOURNALIST NASSER AL-LAHAM ON NEW U.S. EMBASSY IN JERUSALEM: WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE U.S. EMBASSIES IN VIETNAM AND IN LIBYA.

Palestinian Journalist Nasser Al-Laham on New U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem: We All Know What Happened to the U.S. Embassies in Vietnam and in Libya


----------



## Sixties Fan

How we really became refugees 13 Palestinians tell their personal stories


----------



## Sixties Fan

An exhibition in honor of Hamas terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mor's car after the attack
Harel Cohen


David Mor, a resident of Beit El, was caught yesterday while on the way from his community in a stone-throwing ambush, in which at least seven young Arabs took part.


(full article online)

Stone-throwing ambush: 'Everything shattered'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Mor's car after the attack
> Harel Cohen
> 
> 
> David Mor, a resident of Beit El, was caught yesterday while on the way from his community in a stone-throwing ambush, in which at least seven young Arabs took part.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Stone-throwing ambush: 'Everything shattered'


 Is Beit El an illegal settlement?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mor's car after the attack
> Harel Cohen
> 
> 
> David Mor, a resident of Beit El, was caught yesterday while on the way from his community in a stone-throwing ambush, in which at least seven young Arabs took part.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Stone-throwing ambush: 'Everything shattered'
> 
> 
> 
> Is Beit El an illegal settlement?
Click to expand...


The same as the Capital of the caliph in Ramallah.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt Opens Gaza’s Rafah Crossing for Ramadan, 45% of Gazans Want to Emigrate


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ With the Millions that Abbas receives, he will not pay people's salaries ]

Khareb, whose wife is soon expected to give birth to their third child, was apparently despondent over his family’s poverty.

PA employee in Gaza sets himself on fire after salary withheld


----------



## Sixties Fan

A video for children aired on Palestinian Authority TV as part of annual commemorations of the “Nakba,” or catastrophe, of Israel’s founding, vows a “return” to lands that are today part of Israel.

In the clip, an elderly hand is seen passing on old house keys to the hand of a child. A title declares: “From generation to generation, there is no alternative to the return.”


Palestinian TV teaches children there’s ‘no alternative to return’ to 1948 homes


----------



## Sixties Fan

3. When they fled to other countries, they never accepted their new lives. Sure, they got new homes, new jobs, new languages, new cars, and more. But they still considered themselves refugees. They need to face reality. If they got a new home and new car and a new life in a stable country, they are not a refugee! They are a regular person.

4. Apparently, if you consider yourself a ‘palestinian refugee’, then it is also genetic. For other refugees, once they get new lives, then future kids born in the new country are regular citizens just like everyone else. The kids had never even been in the old country. The new country is there home. All this makes sense, unless you are a ‘palestinian refugee.’  In this case, even if you are a palestinian refugee and move to a new country and get a new life and marry and have kids, your kids are still ‘refugees.’ That means that their 5 year old kid, who has never even been in the Middle East, is still considered a ‘palestinian refugee.’


(full article online)

The “Palestinian” refugee crisis FINALLY makes sense


----------



## Sixties Fan

Video: Palestinians pelt Americans with stones in Beit Jala ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas shown recovering in hospital and reading a newspaper on the back page of which is a cartoon portraying an Israeli soldier poisoning a Palestinian baby, May 22, 2018. . (Wafa news agency)

(full article online)

From hospital, Abbas shown reading newspaper with anti-Israel cartoon


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's a cartoon in official Palestinian daily Al Hayat al Jadida making the moon that signals the beginning of Ramadan into a sling for Palestinians to attack Israel:





Here's the "Happy Ramadan" message from Palestine Today showing a Gazan with a burning tire and a traditional lantern for Ramadan:

(full article online)

Rioting in Ramadan as a religious obligation ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*US Money Used to Educate Terror*

The United States is the biggest donor to the UN refugee organization called UNRWA.  They donate $400 million a year to the UNRWA. Other countries fund the remaining $1.2 billion budget.

(full article and video online)

Shocking New Video Exposes Terror Education in Gaza Funded by USA & World Donors


----------



## Sixties Fan

The photograph, taken in Abbas’ hospital room, where he was taken suffering from an ear infection and pneumonia, shows him reading a PA newspaper. Clearly visible is a cartoon showing an Israeli soldier poisoning a Palestinian baby.

Edy Cohen, chairman of the Kedem Forum for Middle East Studies, told The Algemeiner, “I just spoke with several people very close to Mahmoud Abbas, and it was explicitly told to me that Abbas picked the only [newspaper] where that cartoon was large. … So I understand that he chose it deliberately, because we’re talking about the biggest cartoon there was, so it would be seen. It’s a subliminal message.”

The photo, Cohen said, was “a message to his people. Abbas is not a child. He’s old. He’s going to meet his maker. But he wants to go out as a hero. And the message he’s sending is ‘Even if I’m in the hospital, I’m against the Jews. I’m against Israel.’”

(full article online)

Scholar: Abbas Deliberately Chose to Be Photographed With Antisemitic Cartoon


----------



## Sixties Fan

In each case, Palestinian Arabs living in PA-controlled areas were suspected of collaborating with Israel -- a "crime" that can include anything from warning authorities of impending acts of terrorism to selling land to Jews.


All told, 13 of 15 "human rights organizations" proved that they are, in fact, dedicated to defaming the State of Israel, and have no real interest in defending human rights.


Only two organizations -- The Committee for Prevention of Torture and Physicians for Human Rights -- offered assistance of any kind.


Ironically, help also came from two unexpected sources: Honenu, a legal aid society most often associated with right wing causes, and Regavim, a think-tank and lobbying group that regularly finds itself in court as a means of protecting Israeli sovereignty.


(full article online)

Pro-Palestinian Human Rights Organizations Shaft Palestinians and Human Rights


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> In each case, Palestinian Arabs living in PA-controlled areas were suspected of collaborating with Israel -- a "crime" that can include anything from warning authorities of impending acts of terrorism to selling land to Jews.
> 
> 
> All told, 13 of 15 "human rights organizations" proved that they are, in fact, dedicated to defaming the State of Israel, and have no real interest in defending human rights.
> 
> 
> Only two organizations -- The Committee for Prevention of Torture and Physicians for Human Rights -- offered assistance of any kind.
> 
> 
> Ironically, help also came from two unexpected sources: Honenu, a legal aid society most often associated with right wing causes, and Regavim, a think-tank and lobbying group that regularly finds itself in court as a means of protecting Israeli sovereignty.
> (full article online)
> 
> Pro-Palestinian Human Rights Organizations Shaft Palestinians and Human Rights



Great article, if NGO's are not ready to help Palestinians  when right wing-organizations do, then it's pretty clear who are the provocateurs.

 The exaggerated impression of suffering is what creates jobs and budget flow for NGO's.
That's why it's unlikely that they'd be invested in improving the conditions, the system is basically set as a financial incentive to create and prolong confrontation - even when neither sides intend to.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Destroyed cherries after terrorists set fire to Gush Etzion orchard 

The agricultural eco-terrorism in Gush Etzion continues. Tuesday night, following a string of arson and thefts in the Kibbutz Kfar Etzion orchards, Arab rioters came again to the groves on Givat Ha’Mukhtar, located between Kfar Etzion and the Arab town of Beit Ummar, and set fire to a number of cherry orchards using burning tires.

(full article online)

Watch Report: Arab Agricultural Terrorists Set Fire to Gush Etzion Orchards


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Destroyed cherries after terrorists set fire to Gush Etzion orchard
> 
> The agricultural eco-terrorism in Gush Etzion continues. Tuesday night, following a string of arson and thefts in the Kibbutz Kfar Etzion orchards, Arab rioters came again to the groves on Givat Ha’Mukhtar, located between Kfar Etzion and the Arab town of Beit Ummar, and set fire to a number of cherry orchards using burning tires.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch Report: Arab Agricultural Terrorists Set Fire to Gush Etzion Orchards


Occupations always have a problem with security.

It comes with the territory.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destroyed cherries after terrorists set fire to Gush Etzion orchard
> 
> The agricultural eco-terrorism in Gush Etzion continues. Tuesday night, following a string of arson and thefts in the Kibbutz Kfar Etzion orchards, Arab rioters came again to the groves on Givat Ha’Mukhtar, located between Kfar Etzion and the Arab town of Beit Ummar, and set fire to a number of cherry orchards using burning tires.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch Report: Arab Agricultural Terrorists Set Fire to Gush Etzion Orchards
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...

Jews always have a problem with extremist Arab Muslims.

And your premise is so false as it does not seem to apply to all the British, Turkish, American, French, Russian, etc  who actually do occupy indigenous people's territory around the world.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destroyed cherries after terrorists set fire to Gush Etzion orchard
> 
> The agricultural eco-terrorism in Gush Etzion continues. Tuesday night, following a string of arson and thefts in the Kibbutz Kfar Etzion orchards, Arab rioters came again to the groves on Givat Ha’Mukhtar, located between Kfar Etzion and the Arab town of Beit Ummar, and set fire to a number of cherry orchards using burning tires.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch Report: Arab Agricultural Terrorists Set Fire to Gush Etzion Orchards
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations always have a problem with security.
> 
> It comes with the territory.
Click to expand...


That's true.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A preacher on official Palestinian Authority TV threatened that the Palestinians or Muslims in general will "soon" conquer Jerusalem "by force," unless it is handed over "peacefully": 

















"The Jews are an arrogant and tyrannical enemy, occupying Jerusalem and Palestine... Allah willing, we will soon take what was taken from us, if not peacefully then by force."
[Official PA TV, April 13, 2018]

The preacher called on Allah to help "drive out the Jews" from Jerusalem, using the Muslims to do so. The preacher compared this to the way Allah helped drive out the crusaders who "left it humiliated and disgraced, dragging their tails behind them":

(full article online)

We’ll take Jerusalem “if not peacefully then by force… Allah, drive out the Jews” - PA TV preacher - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The statistics for the first 11 days of Ramadan shows that Egypt allowed 4200 Gazans to enter, but only three of them were admitted for medical treatment. (490 people returned to Gaza.)

In that same time period, Israel allowed 30 injured people to travel to Jordan for treatment. And Israel has allowed about 1000 Gazans to enter Israel altogether for "humanitarian reasons" (which usually means the people seeking medical attention and one family member.) I count 86 ambulance crossings into Israel in that time period.

(full article online)

Egypt has so far allowed only 3 injured people from Gaza to be treated ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The secret is out about the UN’s role in Gaza clashes


Shocking New Video Exposes Terror Education in Gaza Funded by USA & World Donors


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Fatah, the moderate partner for Peace with Israel.  More like writers of Stephen King like books about the Jews and Israel, where they are always the victims, never the victimizers ]

*Fatah:*
*Israel worse than "Hitler, the Nazis and fascism," wants to "crush" the Arab world and *
*"steal its resources"* 


*"There is no regime in history - believe me, not Hitler, not the Nazis, not fascism - that has implemented what Israel is implementing against the Palestinians" - Fatah spokesman
*
*Israel “wants the Arab countries to be crushed, and wants to steal their resources. It wants the Arab countries to be broken apart, poor, and involved in conflict with each other... Israel wants to divide the Arab states... It rules over the American decision-making and over the American Congress. "*

*"The colonialist and imperialist forces... plant[ed] an aggressive entity... that would divide the united Arab nation" - op-ed in the official PA daily*

(full article online )

Fatah: Israel worse than Nazis, wants to "crush" the Arab world, "steal its resources" - PMW Bulletins



[Definitely NOT about Palestinian Arab rights, but al about ARABS
in general ]


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Fatah, the moderate partner for Peace with Israel.  More like writers of Stephen King like books about the Jews and Israel, where they are always the victims, never the victimizers ]
> 
> *Fatah:
> Israel worse than "Hitler, the Nazis and fascism," wants to "crush" the Arab world and
> "steal its resources"*
> 
> 
> *"There is no regime in history - believe me, not Hitler, not the Nazis, not fascism - that has implemented what Israel is implementing against the Palestinians" - Fatah spokesman
> *
> *Israel “wants the Arab countries to be crushed, and wants to steal their resources. It wants the Arab countries to be broken apart, poor, and involved in conflict with each other... Israel wants to divide the Arab states... It rules over the American decision-making and over the American Congress. "*
> 
> *"The colonialist and imperialist forces... plant[ed] an aggressive entity... that would divide the united Arab nation" - op-ed in the official PA daily*
> 
> (full article online )
> 
> Fatah: Israel worse than Nazis, wants to "crush" the Arab world, "steal its resources" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> [Definitely NOT about Palestinian Arab rights, but al about ARABS
> in general ]


 
Last words of dying irrelevancy?

*Egyptian media to Hamas - "We're sick and tired of You!"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslim Arab denies Israel as an Apartheid state on Musawa TV


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Not only Palestinian children compete in championships named after terrorists - so do their teachers.

The Qalqilya Directorate of Education, which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, recently held the "*Martyr Abd Al-Jaber Abd Al-Qader Khaled Volleyball Championship for Teachers*," named after a Palestinian terrorist and member of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Together with an accomplice, Khaled attempted to carry out a combined shooting and suicide bombing attack at an Israeli army training camp in 2002. (See below)

The championship was sponsored by Abbas' Fatah Movement and the Jayyous Municipality in the Qalqilya district.

Palestinian Media Watch has exposed the PA's policy of indoctrinating Palestinian kids to view terrorist murderers as heroes and role models. The PA has named 31 schools after terrorists, and sports tournaments are frequently named after terrorists too. In November 2015, a school football tournament for young kids was named after 13-year-old terrorist Ahmad Manasrah, who a month earlier during a Palestinian wave of terror attacks stabbed a 13-year-old Israeli boy and an adult, injuring both seriously. The Ahmad Manasrah Football Tournament named after the young stabber showed Palestinian kids of the same age that murdering or wounding Israelis makes you a hero to the extent that tournaments will be named after you. In this way, the PA creates an incentive for young Palestinians to become murderers and use violence.

(full article online)

Volley and Violence - PA Ministry of Education names teachers tourney after terrorist - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The secret is out about the UN’s role in Gaza clashes
> 
> 
> Shocking New Video Exposes Terror Education in Gaza Funded by USA & World Donors


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Not only Palestinian children compete in championships named after terrorists - so do their teachers.
> 
> The Qalqilya Directorate of Education, which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, recently held the "*Martyr Abd Al-Jaber Abd Al-Qader Khaled Volleyball Championship for Teachers*," named after a Palestinian terrorist and member of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Together with an accomplice, Khaled attempted to carry out a combined shooting and suicide bombing attack at an Israeli army training camp in 2002. (See below)
> 
> The championship was sponsored by Abbas' Fatah Movement and the Jayyous Municipality in the Qalqilya district.
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch has exposed the PA's policy of indoctrinating Palestinian kids to view terrorist murderers as heroes and role models. The PA has named 31 schools after terrorists, and sports tournaments are frequently named after terrorists too. In November 2015, a school football tournament for young kids was named after 13-year-old terrorist Ahmad Manasrah, who a month earlier during a Palestinian wave of terror attacks stabbed a 13-year-old Israeli boy and an adult, injuring both seriously. The Ahmad Manasrah Football Tournament named after the young stabber showed Palestinian kids of the same age that murdering or wounding Israelis makes you a hero to the extent that tournaments will be named after you. In this way, the PA creates an incentive for young Palestinians to become murderers and use violence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Volley and Violence - PA Ministry of Education names teachers tourney after terrorist - PMW Bulletins


They are not terrorists in Palestine. They are only terrorists to foreign name callers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not only Palestinian children compete in championships named after terrorists - so do their teachers.
> 
> The Qalqilya Directorate of Education, which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, recently held the "*Martyr Abd Al-Jaber Abd Al-Qader Khaled Volleyball Championship for Teachers*," named after a Palestinian terrorist and member of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Together with an accomplice, Khaled attempted to carry out a combined shooting and suicide bombing attack at an Israeli army training camp in 2002. (See below)
> 
> The championship was sponsored by Abbas' Fatah Movement and the Jayyous Municipality in the Qalqilya district.
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch has exposed the PA's policy of indoctrinating Palestinian kids to view terrorist murderers as heroes and role models. The PA has named 31 schools after terrorists, and sports tournaments are frequently named after terrorists too. In November 2015, a school football tournament for young kids was named after 13-year-old terrorist Ahmad Manasrah, who a month earlier during a Palestinian wave of terror attacks stabbed a 13-year-old Israeli boy and an adult, injuring both seriously. The Ahmad Manasrah Football Tournament named after the young stabber showed Palestinian kids of the same age that murdering or wounding Israelis makes you a hero to the extent that tournaments will be named after you. In this way, the PA creates an incentive for young Palestinians to become murderers and use violence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Volley and Violence - PA Ministry of Education names teachers tourney after terrorist - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> They are not terrorists in Palestine. They are only terrorists to foreign name callers.
Click to expand...

Of course, dear. The Hamas vs. Fatah civil war that included kidnapping, torture and street muderrs was a friendly disagreement .


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ US, EU, everyone's money wasted on education innocent children to hate and to kill Jews.  Mohammad is smiling  ]


_At the graduation ceremony of the Al-Hoda kindergarten in Gaza, pre-schoolers carrying mock guns and rifles simulated Islamic Jihad militants storming an Israeli building on "Al-Quds Street," capturing a child dressed in stereotypical garb as an Orthodox Jew and killing an "Israeli soldier." To the sounds of loud explosions and gunfire, the children, dressed in uniforms of the Islamic Jihad’s Al-Quds Brigades, attacked the building, placing a sign reading "Israel has fallen" in Hebrew and Arabic on the back of the "soldier," who lies prone on the ground, and leaving the stage with their "hostage." Then some of the children performed on stage, with an address by Yasser Arafat playing on the speakers._

(full article and video online)

Gaza kindergarten stages play where kids kidnap an Orthodox Jew, kill Israeli soldier ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Here's some happy-fun Islamic Death Cult indoctrination.


What lovely people with such a lovely "religion".


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad and Hamas media are reporting on the mortar attacks and praising them, but for the past few years terror groups have not been as interested in taking responsibility for them.

The reason is that they don't want Israel to target them. 

But Hamas is responsible in the end, and Hamas has stopped many rocket and mortar attacks in the past because it cannot afford a war. 

This seems to be a tactical blunder on Hamas' part, as it has been successful in convincing the world that the Gaza riots were "peaceful protests" and it is hard to portray mortars as peaceful. Indeed, the EU and UN condemned this attack, but only condemned Israel for its response to the Gaza riot.

(full article online)

Interestingly, Islamic Jihad has not claimed responsibility for mortar barrage to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

he initial, primary bombardment came at 7 a.m., when approximately 25 mortar shells were toward the Sha’ar Hanegev and Eshkol regions, as parents were beginning to send their children to school, the IDF said.

he army said its Iron Dome missile defense system intercepted the majority of the incoming shells from the first barrage.

One of the shells struck a tree in the yard of a kindergarten in the Eshkol region, less than an hour before students were due to arrive, a spokesperson for the community said.

Exactly one hour later, incoming sirens were triggered for a second time in the Eshkol region, but not in Sha’ar Hanegev, as at least two mortar shells struck an open field in the area, the army said.







The remains of a mortar shell that was fired from the Gaza Strip at an Israeli community near the Gaza border, on May 29, 2018. (Israel Police)

The second attack caused neither injuries nor damage.

(full article online)

28 mortar shells strike southern Israel in largest barrage since 2014; 1 injured


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Blockade?  How do they get these weapons from Iran?  ]

Israel says projectiles launched from Gaza ‘Iranian made’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli warplanes raided an Islamic Jihad outpost in the central Gaza Strip on Tuesday afternoon, in retaliation for a massive mortar attack by the terror group on civilian populations just across the border. Arab sources said the planes fired seven rockets at a site of the Islamic Jihad’s military wing, Saraya al-Quds. Al-Quds Brigades is the armed wing of the Islamic Jihad, which is funded by Iran.

The Israeli bombardment caused material damage to the site, which was empty of fighters. The Israeli planes also launched another raid targeting a terrorist site in Khan Younis.

(full article online)

IDF Retaliates in Gaza, Islamic Jihad Outpost Destroyed


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, _et al,_

Well, it looks like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are really trying hard to start a major incident.



Sixties Fan said:


> he initial, primary bombardment came at 7 a.m., when approximately 25 mortar shells were toward the Sha’ar Hanegev and Eshkol regions, as parents were beginning to send their children to school, the IDF said.


*(COMMENT • VERY MUCH CANDID)*

We've seen this cycle before.  The HoAP start out with border incident fire, and gradually ascending from unacceptable behaviors to an intolerable threshold.  The Israelis will eventually respond --- and the HoAP will cry in outrage.  The UN will scream Human Rights violations.  The International Community will claim "war crimes" violations.  The Prosecutor will suggest that the Israelis are in range of criminal prosecution.  A bandwagon of cry baby NGOs, Human Rights Organizations, the International Red Cross, etc etc, will fold into a media-driven anti-Israel posture - making Israel appear as the aggressor using disproportionate force against poor defenseless HoAP who's only harms was intentionally firing rockets and mortars across the border indiscriminately.

This is not like it has not happened several times before.  The will be yet another rush to judgment by elements within the international community to persecute the Israelis.  No one in the Middle East expects the UN, the EU, the entirety of Scandinavia, the Benelux, members of the GCC, and nearly all of the totalitarian regimes including North Korea, to support Israel or the US.

So what is new.  It has happened so many times that Israel and the US should place them on ignoring.  Make sure, to the extent possible, start off fresh listing of HAMAS Collaborators.  This would include the UNRWA and other NGOs. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Three people were wounded on Tuesday afternoon in another barrage of rockets and mortar shells fired at southern Israel by Gaza terrorists.

The victims, all residents of the Eshkol Regional Council district, suffered shrapnel wounds. They were evacuated to Soroka Medical Center in Be’er Sheva.

(full article online)

4 Wounded in Gaza Rocket, Mortar Attacks on Southern Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Who makes the Gaza population suffer because of the leaders' endless war against Israel ?  ]

One of dozens of rockets launched Tuesday by terrorists from the Gaza Strip hit facilities supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip.

Due to the damage to the facilities, three lines supplying electricity to the southern Gaza Strip were stopped.

(full article online)

Gaza electricity cut off after rocket strikes supplying facility


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rocket Barrage Targets Israeli Civilians


----------



## Sixties Fan

Emphasizing the message to Palestinians that “sacrificing” oneself for “Palestine” and dying as a “Martyr” while carrying out a terror attack against Israelis is an admirable act, the Bethlehem branch of Abbas’ Fatah Movement lauded the female suicide bomber Andalib Takatka, who murdered 6 when she carried out a suicide bombing in 2002.

Fatah stated that the suicide bomber hurried and carried out her attack a few days before her birthday because she “preferred” celebrating in Paradise, and that “*her desire to take revenge against the Jews*” was stronger than her desire to blow out birthday candles:

*Posted text:* "Sixteen years ago, on April 12, 2002, *heroic self-sacrificing fighter Andalib Takatka carried out a self-sacrificing operation in occupied Jerusalem that led to the death of 6 Zionists and the wounding of another 85*...
It was a deeply moving sight to see Andalib read her will... while holding Allah's book and saying: 'This life is fleeting, pointless, and worthless, and the best thing man seeks is a dignified life in Paradise.' ... A*ndalib carried out the April 12, 2002 self-sacrificing operation, and did not wait until Sunday, April 14, in order to celebrate her 20th birthday. This was because she preferred to celebrate it in a different place and a different manner, and she hurried to extinguish the flame of her desire to take revenge against the Jews instead ofextinguishing her 20th candle in her father's house*...
We all bow in admiration and appreciation before the soul of *heroic Martyrdom (Shahada) seeker Andalib Takatka*."
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, 
April 12, 2018


(full article online)

Birthday in Paradise – suicide bomber’s preferred way to celebrate, says Fatah - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel destroys ‘unique’ Hamas tunnel extending into Israel via Egypt


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ There goes Gaza support ]

US calls barrage 'reprehensible,' Italy tweets solidarity, and Ireland blames Hamas amid flurry of condemnation following Gazan barrage

(full article online)

International sympathy rains down as Israeli diplomats go on offensive


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ There goes MORE Gaza support ]

EU and UN Decry Worst Gazan Mortar Attack on Israel Since 2014 War


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF says some 70 projectiles fired into Israel over course of day in most serious flare-up since 2014; Hamas, Islamic Jihad jointly claim ongoing fire at Israel

(full article online)

Rocket sirens blare as Gazan fire appears to persist into night


----------



## Sixties Fan

Austria: Gaza rockets targeting Israeli civilians ‘must stop immediately’


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is hard to believe that the Gaza terror group would have opened fire on Israeli citizens, potentially pushing the Strip toward war, without the support of its Iranian sponsors

(full article online)

Behind Islamic Jihad’s barrage of attacks on Israel, the hand of Iran


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Who makes the Gaza population suffer because of the leaders' endless war against Israel ?  ]
> 
> One of dozens of rockets launched Tuesday by terrorists from the Gaza Strip hit facilities supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Due to the damage to the facilities, three lines supplying electricity to the southern Gaza Strip were stopped.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza electricity cut off after rocket strikes supplying facility



Well, jeez, its all Israel's fault -- I mean, if Israel didn't supply them with electricity in the first place, then they wouldn't have to shoot dozens of rockets at Israel in order to take out their electricity so they could be sad and complain about a slow genocide and make Israel look bad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”


Sour grapes article by someone who does not know what he is talking about.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes article by someone who does not know what he is talking about.
Click to expand...


That's the same silly youtube video you have dumped into multiple threads on multiple occassions.

All that whining about “international law” from another yattering Islamic talking head.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes article by someone who does not know what he is talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same silly youtube video you have dumped into multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> All that whining about “international law” from another yattering Islamic talking head.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if it is too complicated for you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes article by someone who does not know what he is talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same silly youtube video you have dumped into multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> All that whining about “international law” from another yattering Islamic talking head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry if it is too complicated for you.
Click to expand...

It’s not. It’s just your repetitious cutting and pasting with repetitious yatteting from someone who pretends to be knowledgeable about law. 

It’s not any different from your confused bloviating.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes article by someone who does not know what he is talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same silly youtube video you have dumped into multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> All that whining about “international law” from another yattering Islamic talking head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry if it is too complicated for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not. It’s just your repetitious cutting and pasting with repetitious yatteting from someone who pretends to be knowledgeable about law.
> 
> It’s not any different from your confused bloviating.
Click to expand...

You are too funny. On one side we have:

*Susan M. Akram *
*Clinical Professor of Law*
BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
JD, Georgetown University
Diplome in International Human Rights,
Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​
On the other side we have an internet troll who absolutely refuses to learn anything.

Oh, who to believe, who to believe?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, _et al,_
> 
> Well, it looks like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are really trying hard to start a major incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> he initial, primary bombardment came at 7 a.m., when approximately 25 mortar shells were toward the Sha’ar Hanegev and Eshkol regions, as parents were beginning to send their children to school, the IDF said.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT • VERY MUCH CANDID)*
> 
> We've seen this cycle before.  The HoAP start out with border incident fire, and gradually ascending from unacceptable behaviors to an intolerable threshold.  The Israelis will eventually respond --- and the HoAP will cry in outrage.  The UN will scream Human Rights violations.  The International Community will claim "war crimes" violations.  The Prosecutor will suggest that the Israelis are in range of criminal prosecution.  A bandwagon of cry baby NGOs, Human Rights Organizations, the International Red Cross, etc etc, will fold into a media-driven anti-Israel posture - making Israel appear as the aggressor using disproportionate force against poor defenseless HoAP who's only harms was intentionally firing rockets and mortars across the border indiscriminately.
> 
> This is not like it has not happened several times before.  The will be yet another rush to judgment by elements within the international community to persecute the Israelis.  No one in the Middle East expects the UN, the EU, the entirety of Scandinavia, the Benelux, members of the GCC, and nearly all of the totalitarian regimes including North Korea, to support Israel or the US.
> 
> So what is new.  It has happened so many times that Israel and the US should place them on ignoring.  Make sure, to the extent possible, start off fresh listing of HAMAS Collaborators.  This would include the UNRWA and other NGOs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The problem is that every time Israel does something stupid their hole gets deeper.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Privileged Palestinian “Refugees”
> 
> 
> 
> Sour grapes article by someone who does not know what he is talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same silly youtube video you have dumped into multiple threads on multiple occassions.
> 
> All that whining about “international law” from another yattering Islamic talking head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry if it is too complicated for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not. It’s just your repetitious cutting and pasting with repetitious yatteting from someone who pretends to be knowledgeable about law.
> 
> It’s not any different from your confused bloviating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are too funny. On one side we have:
> 
> *Susan M. Akram *
> *Clinical Professor of Law*
> BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
> JD, Georgetown University
> Diplome in International Human Rights,
> Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
> Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​
> On the other side we have an internet troll who absolutely refuses to learn anything.
> 
> Oh, who to believe, who to believe?
Click to expand...


That’s the same silly cut and paste resume’ you cut and paste after you cut and paste that silly YouTube video.

How interesting that she is reduced to making silly YouTube videos.

You YouTube groupies are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, _et al,_
> 
> Well, it looks like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are really trying hard to start a major incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> he initial, primary bombardment came at 7 a.m., when approximately 25 mortar shells were toward the Sha’ar Hanegev and Eshkol regions, as parents were beginning to send their children to school, the IDF said.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT • VERY MUCH CANDID)*
> 
> We've seen this cycle before.  The HoAP start out with border incident fire, and gradually ascending from unacceptable behaviors to an intolerable threshold.  The Israelis will eventually respond --- and the HoAP will cry in outrage.  The UN will scream Human Rights violations.  The International Community will claim "war crimes" violations.  The Prosecutor will suggest that the Israelis are in range of criminal prosecution.  A bandwagon of cry baby NGOs, Human Rights Organizations, the International Red Cross, etc etc, will fold into a media-driven anti-Israel posture - making Israel appear as the aggressor using disproportionate force against poor defenseless HoAP who's only harms was intentionally firing rockets and mortars across the border indiscriminately.
> 
> This is not like it has not happened several times before.  The will be yet another rush to judgment by elements within the international community to persecute the Israelis.  No one in the Middle East expects the UN, the EU, the entirety of Scandinavia, the Benelux, members of the GCC, and nearly all of the totalitarian regimes including North Korea, to support Israel or the US.
> 
> So what is new.  It has happened so many times that Israel and the US should place them on ignoring.  Make sure, to the extent possible, start off fresh listing of HAMAS Collaborators.  This would include the UNRWA and other NGOs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem is that every time Israel does something stupid their hole gets deeper.
Click to expand...


That makes no sense. 

Shirley, you have a YouTube video?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ There goes Gaza support ]
> 
> US calls barrage 'reprehensible,' Italy tweets solidarity, and Ireland blames Hamas amid flurry of condemnation following Gazan barrage
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> International sympathy rains down as Israeli diplomats go on offensive


The lackey class always supported Israel.

There is nothing new here.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ There goes Gaza support ]
> 
> US calls barrage 'reprehensible,' Italy tweets solidarity, and Ireland blames Hamas amid flurry of condemnation following Gazan barrage
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> International sympathy rains down as Israeli diplomats go on offensive
> 
> 
> 
> The lackey class always supported Israel.
> 
> There is nothing new here.
Click to expand...


Sour grapes.

Maybe it’s time for you to cut and paste a Jenna gee-had YouTube video.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

Maybe some segments of the International Community are seeing the true nature of the Arab Palestinian; and the threat they pose.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ There goes Gaza support ]
> 
> US calls barrage 'reprehensible,' Italy tweets solidarity, and Ireland blames Hamas amid flurry of condemnation following Gazan barrage
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> International sympathy rains down as Israeli diplomats go on offensive
> 
> 
> 
> The lackey class always supported Israel.
> 
> There is nothing new here.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I have seen and heard some very intelligent conversation about this latest Israeli-Arab Palestinian confrontation.  Everyone sees the issues at hand.   While there is a branch of the issues that deal with territorial integrity, and another branch at hand dealing with self-defense and sovereignty, the real tricky branch is the one of audacity; and the open intention of provoking a confrontation.

The Hostile Arab Palestinians believe that any action they take in the face-off with Israeli is righteous. And Israel has no foundation to respond.  Any action Israel takes, against the lawlessness of the Arab Palestinians will be spun as the as the Israelis on the role of the aggressor.  

*(OUTSIDE OBSERVER)*

The International Community has been biased in favor of the Arab Palestinian for several decades.  Each time that Israel has shown restraint, the International Community consistently took no notice.   Each time the Hostile Arab Palestinians, and those that have funded and supplied material support, have taken to provoke a violent confrontation, the International Community _(politically and judicially)_ sided with the Arab Palestinians.

It looks to me that the Israelis should ignore the reaction of the international community _(driven by the constant bombardment by by both the political and the biased media)_ and take that action that is necessary to effectively defend Article 2(4) expectation and act against the Arab Palestinian threat AND use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel through Artice 51 _(inherent right of self-defense from an armed attack)_.   Based on the history of the international community, Israel has no reasonable expectation that the Internation Community, _including the UN elements themselves collaborating with designated terrorist organizations,_ will act in any way that will prevent Arab Palestinians from further hostile actions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

International Community responds!



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ There goes Gaza support ]
> 
> US calls barrage 'reprehensible,' Italy tweets solidarity, and Ireland blames Hamas amid flurry of condemnation following Gazan barrage
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> International sympathy rains down as Israeli diplomats go on offensive
> 
> 
> 
> The lackey class always supported Israel.
> 
> There is nothing new here.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

   What kind of meaningful response should Israel expect from the international community?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Any action Israel takes, against the lawlessness of the Arab Palestinians will be spun as the as the Israelis on the role of the aggressor.


What lawlessness?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Wait --- Let me find my glasses! 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any action Israel takes, against the lawlessness of the Arab Palestinians will be spun as the as the Israelis on the role of the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> What lawlessness?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

My --- but I must be in an alternate reality.

From the time of the unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, right up through to the recent eeventsof this past week, the Arab Palestinians have demonstrated what it means to be a failed state that has abandon yhe rule of law. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Wait --- Let me find my glasses!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any action Israel takes, against the lawlessness of the Arab Palestinians will be spun as the as the Israelis on the role of the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> What lawlessness?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> My --- but I must be in an alternate reality.
> 
> From the time of the unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, right up through to the recent eeventsof this past week, the Arab Palestinians have demonstrated what it means to be a failed state that has abandon yhe rule of law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice deflection. Could you be more specific?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Some need to learn that Judaism does not have "Hell "  ]

(vide tweet online)

Can't you feel the love?

This is the kind of peace that the BDSers and "moderate" Palestinians want. A desire for all Jews in Israel to rot in hell.

And, no, she isn't antisemitic in the least. She just believes that every other people can have a state but the Jews.

Palestinian "academic" to Israelis: "May you rot in hell along with your Jewish state" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The bad news for journalists is there is no neutral mode. If your words sound neutral, it’s likely you’ve simply avoided laying responsibility for the killings, or have imputed responsibility only indirectly."

She illustrates the story this way:





The entire article uses Gaza, and only Gaza, to make her point. Her Twitter account is littered with anti-Israel posts.

But it is ostensibly not an anti-Israel story but a critique of how journalists cover violence.

Maybe I'm just a rube, but while I agree that the wording of stories is important, accuracy should be far more important than "imputing responsibility."

(full article online)

Anti-Israel professor cares about pro-Israel grammar in news stories, but facts aren't important at all ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ahmed Majdalani is now being accused by his own people of promoting "normalization" between Palestinians and Israel.


It is worth noting that those who took the decision to ban the PLO official Majdalani from entering Palestinian universities are living under the "moderate" Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, not under Hamas rule.


This is the same Palestinian Authority that receives funds from the US and EU. In other words, Americans and Europeans are funding Palestinians who are opposed to any form of "normalization" with Israel. If a PLO official's visit to a conference in Israel is labelled treason, what would happen to a Palestinian who signed a peace agreement with Israel?


The Palestinians' problem is not with a settlement or a checkpoint or a fence. They have a problem with the existence of Israel in _any_ borders. Palestinians have still not come to terms with Israel's right to exist, period; this is the essence of the Israeli-Arab conflict. They see Israel as one big settlement that needs to be ripped out.


(full article online)

Palestinian "Treason"


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA TV's coverage of the funeral of terrorist Zamaarah exemplified that his parents also perceive his "Martyrdom" and his funeral as a "wedding" and his death as a sacrifice for "the defense of Palestine, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and Jerusalem": 







*Father of terrorist Hamza Zamaarah:* "Hamza is not just my child, he is the son of Palestine. Hamza became a Martyr while defending the soil of Palestine. Hamza became a Martyr while defending the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Jerusalem, and the prisoners. Praise Allah."
[Official PA TV News, Feb. 17, 2018]








*Mother of terrorist Hamza Zamaarah:* "I ask Allah to give him the reward of a Martyr. Allah willing, he will be with the prophets, the Martyrs, and the righteous. I greet all the people who came today to accompany my son at his wedding. My son is a sacrifice for the homeland, for Palestine, for Islam, and a sacrifice *for all of Palestine*."

(full article online)

Terrorist funerals – glorification and incitement by the PA - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

An online poll at Ma'an Arabic asked its Palestinian readers who the most dangerous and most hostile leaders are towards their cause.

Nearly 85% said that Arab leaders "who were striving to normalize with the occupation" are the most dangerous and hostile ones, with the remaining 15% divided in their anger at Trump and "the government of settlers and Zionist extremists."

This poll was taken after the US Embassy moved to Jerusalem.

It is not a scientific poll by any means but it does give an indication of how, despite the PR successes from the Gaza riots, the Palestinians feel more isolated than ever before.

(full article online)

Online poll shows Palestinians consider Arab leaders more of a danger to them than Israel or US ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Arab Organization of Human Rights issues what appear to be weekly press statements, usually condemning Israel for something or other.

This week was no different.

But buried within the items calling on the ICC to prosecute Israel and for the world to boycott Israel one sees this:

 The International Legal and Communication Committee calls on the Palestinian President and the Government to immediately begin lifting the punitive and illegal measures imposed on the Gaza Strip and taking the necessary measures to support the steadfastness of the citizens and secure a decent life for them.
While this is mild language an purposefully vague as to exactly what Mahmoud Abbas is doing (limiting fuel, medicines, salaries, goods, paperwork for Gazans to travel to the West Bank) it is interesting to see that it calls his actions "illegal."

(full article online)

Arab Organization of Human Rights mildly chides Abbas for his siege of Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Arab Organization of Human Rights issues what appear to be weekly press statements, usually condemning Israel for something or other.
> 
> This week was no different.
> 
> But buried within the items calling on the ICC to prosecute Israel and for the world to boycott Israel one sees this:
> 
> The International Legal and Communication Committee calls on the Palestinian President and the Government to immediately begin lifting the punitive and illegal measures imposed on the Gaza Strip and taking the necessary measures to support the steadfastness of the citizens and secure a decent life for them.
> While this is mild language an purposefully vague as to exactly what Mahmoud Abbas is doing (limiting fuel, medicines, salaries, goods, paperwork for Gazans to travel to the West Bank) it is interesting to see that it calls his actions "illegal."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab Organization of Human Rights mildly chides Abbas for his siege of Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


One of the reasons why 85% of Palestinians want him to leave.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Mufti:
"Jerusalem and the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque are an Islamic waqf until Judgment Day; they cannot be sold, given away, or bequeathed, and no one has the right to relinquish them"

Hamas' charter:
"The land of Palestine is an Islamic waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up"

PA Mufti:

"Granting ownership over Islamic territory or part of it to enemies is invalid and constitutes treason"

"Whoever sells his land to his enemies or takes compensation for it sins, as in doing so he aids in the removal of Muslims from their homes"
(full article online)

PA Mufti echoes Hamas: Transferring land to "enemies" is "treason," a sin, and forbidden - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Organization of Human Rights issues what appear to be weekly press statements, usually condemning Israel for something or other.
> 
> This week was no different.
> 
> But buried within the items calling on the ICC to prosecute Israel and for the world to boycott Israel one sees this:
> 
> The International Legal and Communication Committee calls on the Palestinian President and the Government to immediately begin lifting the punitive and illegal measures imposed on the Gaza Strip and taking the necessary measures to support the steadfastness of the citizens and secure a decent life for them.
> While this is mild language an purposefully vague as to exactly what Mahmoud Abbas is doing (limiting fuel, medicines, salaries, goods, paperwork for Gazans to travel to the West Bank) it is interesting to see that it calls his actions "illegal."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab Organization of Human Rights mildly chides Abbas for his siege of Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> One of the reasons why 85% of Palestinians want him to leave.
Click to expand...


One of the reasons why Arab-Moslem societies continue to be backward and retrograde is when given that rare opportunity to elect the theocratic dictators who will keep them mired in fear, ignorance and poverty, they will positively rush out to do so. The other dictators who rule over Arabs-Moslems (usually the current dictator who had larger caliber weapons and ammo to depose the earlier dictator), simply behave as one would expect dictators to behave.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When we look backward, we see that the Palestinian Arabs have never demonstrated a genuine desire for a state next to our Jewish state.

(full article online)

The two-state solution that never was


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> When we look backward, we see that the Palestinian Arabs have never demonstrated a genuine desire for a state next to our Jewish state.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The two-state solution that never was


The two state solution has always been a foreign imposed solution.

This is a solution for what problem?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  PF Tinmore, et al,

 I find us rarely on the same page anymore.



P F Tinmore said:


> The two state solution has always been a foreign imposed solution.
> This is a solution for what problem?


*(COMMENT #1)*

This - or - That.  Your idea that it is foreign imposed is irrelevant.  For more than two millennia the victors of a conflict enjoyed dictating terms for the post-War period.  The Great War (WWI) was no different.  The Arab Palestinians that lived in the affected Vilayets of the Ottoman Empire were left in the hands of the Allied Powers of that era pursuant to Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.  No matter how much today's Arab Palestinian would like it to be otherwise,  it was a fact then and its influence lasts to this day (nearly a century later).  That was a tradition in the time that the Canaanites inhabit Palestine (5000 years ago); it was that way when Alexander the Great captured Palestine (about 2000 years ago), and it was that way 2000 years later when the British and the French established the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration over which the territory under the Mandate of Palestine was created.  And the world has suffered the incessant whining from one of the most unproductive cultural inhabitance ever since.  And that cultural inhabitance that has come to be known as the Arab Palestinian, but better known as Palestinian Extremists and the Arab Palestinians that provide material support to the Palestinian Extremists.  Hardly a day goes by that the Arab Palestinian are not creating havoc somewhere in the territories.  Whether it is provoking children to engage in a physical assault on police, or staging a media event by sacrificing a child's life so that it may be paraded around like an icon to garner the sympathy by outside observers.

Of course the Allied Powers, in 1920, DID NOT dictate that a two-state solution.  It did favor the establishment of a Jewish National Home.  The leaders of the Allied Powers, were flexible enough to open the task to all possible solutions.  It was the violence that erupted, largely at the hands of the Arabs that drove the necessity of a two-state solution.  Making the two-state solution the means to protect and preserve a little spot on the planet for the Jewish People.

*(COMMENT #2)*

A point to be made on the matter of responding to the demand for “[LINKS].”

I provide [LINKS] only as a matter of clarifying my position; not as proof.  It is another way for me to provide an alternative source to view on the topic under discussion.

I have a number of sources of information that goes beyond that contained on the internet.  Some people call them “books” _(print media)_.  My knowledge base, as so very humble as it is, is not limited to what you can cut’n’paste from another web _(open, deep, dark)_.  I only answer the call for a [LINK] when I am fairly sure I understand the nature of the query and the accuracy of the search link.  Our discussions are not bounded by the ability to data mine the webs on various topics.

In _The Ars Notoria_ revealed by the Most High Creator _(the Supreme Being)_ to _(King)_ Solomon, the very first oration is that of the Holy Art of Knowledge.  The fact that I do not have a [LINK]  to the Notary Art, does not mean the orations doesn’t exist.  In fact, if I cite the first stanza in English to you, you may have even heard it.

_Alpha and Omega! Oh Almighty God,_
_the Beginning of all things, _
_without__ Beginning, and without End:_
_Graciously this day hear my Prayers _​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It was the violence that erupted, largely at the hands of the Arabs that drove the necessity of a two-state solution.


Violence erupted because the Palestinians were under attack.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the violence that erupted, largely at the hands of the Arabs that drove the necessity of a two-state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Violence erupted because the Palestinians were under attack.
Click to expand...

Indeed Jews in Syria-Palestine were attacked by Arabs.
Zionism responded.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the violence that erupted, largely at the hands of the Arabs that drove the necessity of a two-state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Violence erupted because the Palestinians were under attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed Jews in Syria-Palestine were attacked by Arabs.
> Zionism responded.
Click to expand...

Zionists are foreigners.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the violence that erupted, largely at the hands of the Arabs that drove the necessity of a two-state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Violence erupted because the Palestinians were under attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed Jews in Syria-Palestine were attacked by Arabs.
> Zionism responded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists are foreigners.
Click to expand...


No more than the Arab armies and migrants.


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*People of Banu Tamim*


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

A guy who's last name is Iraqi blames Lieberman for being a foreigner...


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a very strange claim.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the violence that erupted, largely at the hands of the Arabs that drove the necessity of a two-state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Violence erupted because the Palestinians were under attack.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

During the period in which the Mandate applied tp the territory, no year-end report did the British Forces record being attacked by external opponents.

This claim that the Arab Palestinians cling to, wherein they equate Article 6 facilitation of immigration by the Jewish People with an attack or invasion by external force _(or representing external interference)_, is merely the childish play with words.  This is, yet again, just another appeal to emotions to incite unrest.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

All immigrants are foreigners.



P F Tinmore said:


> Zionists are foreigners.


*(COMMENT)*

Xenophobia is a mental illness.  You should seek treatment...

The Allied Powers → under which the Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the territories; Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.  Not a gang of lawless vigilante like jihadist (ex _Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam_) → various faction of Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,.
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

This story from Middle East Monitor is not too unbelievable....but still, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
-----
PIC is a Hamas-linked propaganda site, so they have reason to make things up. They don't say what Hebrew sources they used so it could be some Hebrew-language conspiracy site for all we know.

But it is interesting that Hamas want to publish this.

(full article online)

Report: PA threatens Israel if Israel helps Gazans! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Let's reiterate: The "occupation" is not a claim, it is a perception, and it is founded on the notion that Jewish sovereignty over any part of the Land of Israel is abhorrent. In the aftermath of the Oslo Accords, Israel relinquished control over the vast majority of the Arab population in Judea and Samaria. They have a Palestinian government with a Palestinian flag and a Palestinian national anthem and Palestinian budgets. They are supposed to vote in Palestinian parliamentary elections. Most of the territory isn't populated, and Israel has a historical right to it as a nation.

The Israeli military deploys around the Palestinian areas to protect them, and us, from Hamas radicalization. What happened in Gaza could happen tenfold in Judea and Samaria if we make the mistake of pulling out. If we do, we will really have to fight for our lives from the homefront and the Palestinians could sustain a worse blow than anything seen before. So yes, there is an Israeli presence around Judea and Samaria. But unlike the reality in Gaza, our military presence in Judea and Samaria has proved itself. The Judea and Samaria region is one of the calmest, safest places for Arabs in the entire Middle East. But that doesn't matter. The view of Israel in the world is even worse now than it was before the Oslo Accords. We are seen only as occupiers.

Bleeding hearts and rights activists contend that we need to "separate from them or give them full civil rights." But we did separate from them. "Give them an independent state," they demand. They had every opportunity to establish a state in Gaza, but they demonstrated that civil government, in and of itself, is not a priority for them. They only care about self-rule as a weapon of war against us. "Well, then, give them full civil rights," they say. But they do enjoy civil rights under the Palestinian Authority. Who says that every ethnic minority is entitled to its own independent state? And if the designated state fails to thrive, and makes the lives of its citizens miserable? And worse yet, if the state poses an existential threat to Israel? Will it still be deemed such a fundamental right?  

So in the absence of an independent state "give them full Israeli citizenship," they argue. And that will solve the "occupation" problem? There are Arab representatives in the Israeli Knesset already. As far as they're concerned, are they not under an occupation? Do they accept the self-definition of the state that they inhabit? Do they accept its symbols? Do they recognize its sovereignty over the land? You can't fool us. Anyone who read the Arab Higher Monitoring Committee's so-called position paper – "The Future Vision of the Arab Palestinians in Israel" published in 2006 – will see that to them, the Jews are foreign colonialists who came to a land that doesn't belong to them (Palestine). As long as Israel defines itself as the national state of the Jewish people, and not the state of any other nationality, the Arab political (as well as much of the intellectual) leadership will continue to feel that their Israeli citizenship was forced on them as a result of their "catastrophe" in the 1948 War of Independence. So what if they have Israeli citizenship? Would it make a psychological difference to a prisoner if he was allowed cast a vote in the elections for warden? Would it change the prisoner's status?

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/06/01/its-not-the-occupation-its-the-jews/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Saudi Writer: The Arab League Summits Are Completely Pointless; Palestinian Leaders – First And Foremost Jerusalem Mufti Al-Husseini And PLO Leader Arafat – Damaged The Palestinian Cause The Most


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Article 6 facilitation of immigration


The Immigration law was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun by foreign powers with the opposition of the people.

How is that not an attack?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 6 facilitation of immigration
> 
> 
> 
> The Immigration law was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun by foreign powers with the opposition of the people.
> 
> How is that not an attack?
Click to expand...

Wars have consequences.
To the winners go the spoils.
The Muslim Arabs and Turks had kept their spoils for centuries since the 7th century.  It is the same thing with every Empire.

Ottoman Empire lost.  They were not the indigenous people of the land.  Neither are the Arabs living there.

The Arab Muslims refused living next to a sovereign Israel. Check my thread. It is all there on how Al Husseini has shaped all of your thoughts about this conflict.  How he was on the side of Germany and not the British.

Germany lost.  Ottomans lost.  Husseini lost.
And just like the Austrian named Adolf, he had a hard time accepting the defeat and went into action to keep the Jews from having any rights on their ancestral land, and went to killing Christians, Jews and others  before, during and after WWII.

You follow some great people with some great ideas of self appointed superiority to other peoples.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et aal,

This is very easy.  I'm surprised you have not grasped it. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 6 facilitation of immigration
> 
> 
> 
> The Immigration law was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun by foreign powers with the opposition of the people.
> 
> How is that not an attack?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

During the period mid-July 1920 _(when the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration hand-off was accomplished)_ through May 1948 _(termination of the Mandate)_ the effective control was established the Government of Palestine as an international framework from which to begin.  The British Mandatory wanted to establish a self-government institution wherein the inhabitants would govern autonomously in Palestine.  This was blocked by the Arab Community.  Several attempts were made to establish the framework through which the Arab Palestinian population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government; for eventual autonomy.  The Arab Palestinians refuse and rejected the offers to be incorporated into the self-governing institution _(The Government of Palestine)_.  Thus, during the period, the British High Commissioner governed Palestine, consisting exclusively of British officials.

The High Commissioner did NOT hold a gun to his own head, or to the heads of the board members of the Governing Council when making decisions.  For all intent and purposes, the His Majesty's Hign Commissioner was "The Government of Palestine."  The Arab Palestinian declined to participate in government _(three attempts were made in 1923 by the Governing Council alone)_. 

• The Arab Palestinians declined to participate → the Arab Palestinians had no room to complain about the consequences.​
This pattern of an offer and declination was a pattern that has been followed since 1923.  AGAIN, this is a crutch for the Arab Palestinians to justify their lawlessness and violence.  By 1929, the Hostile Arab Palestinians had removed themselves so far away from anything resembling Diplomacy that jihadist band like the Palestinian Black Hand _(formed by Sheikh __Izz ad-Din al-Qassam)_ began to develop.

•  The Arab Palestinian had decided that the path they should follow is one of violence.​
There are examples in the world where the end result is so clearly associated then in the case of the Arab Palestinians NOT accepting the consequences of their actions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


One of the things that absolutely confounds me about you is this sort of "posting style" (read: avoidance).

Why are you asking for a link?

Do you not know what Rocco is referring to? (Which is silly because its been posted for you a couple dozen times).

Or are you saying that Article 16 doesn't say what Rocco thinks it says?  (In which case, make your point instead of asking for a link, although that would be entirely foolish concerning Article 16).

Or are you trying to convince readers that Rocco doesn't know what he is talking about?  (PAHLEESE!  Just don't).

Or are you just avoiding discussion?

Personally, I think it is a tactic you use to distract from a valid and entirely correct point from your opponents.  "Look over here!"


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

*•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
 *POLITICAL CLAUSES*
   Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
> *    POLITICAL CLAUSES*
> Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where does Article 16 mention immigration.



RoccoR said:


> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.


Article 22 of the LoN Covenant suggests that the people concerned were the inhabitants of the territories.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
> *    POLITICAL CLAUSES*
> Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
Click to expand...


So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 6 facilitation of immigration
> 
> 
> 
> The Immigration law was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun by foreign powers with the opposition of the people.
> 
> How is that not an attack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wars have consequences.
> To the winners go the spoils.
> The Muslim Arabs and Turks had kept their spoils for centuries since the 7th century.  It is the same thing with every Empire.
> 
> Ottoman Empire lost.  They were not the indigenous people of the land.  Neither are the Arabs living there.
> 
> The Arab Muslims refused living next to a sovereign Israel. Check my thread. It is all there on how Al Husseini has shaped all of your thoughts about this conflict.  How he was on the side of Germany and not the British.
> 
> Germany lost.  Ottomans lost.  Husseini lost.
> And just like the Austrian named Adolf, he had a hard time accepting the defeat and went into action to keep the Jews from having any rights on their ancestral land, and went to killing Christians, Jews and others  before, during and after WWII.
> 
> You follow some great people with some great ideas of self appointed superiority to other peoples.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
> *    POLITICAL CLAUSES*
> Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16, makes the determination as to the status of immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
> *    POLITICAL CLAUSES*
> Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


I knew you couldn’t answer. Your usual retreat was expected.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
> *    POLITICAL CLAUSES*
> Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew you couldn’t answer. Your usual retreat was expected.
Click to expand...

It is you who ducked the question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This has been printed so many times, it now has its own bandwidth.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *•  Lausanne Treaty: Part I*
> *    POLITICAL CLAUSES*
> Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> The treaty handed the future of the territory to the concerned parties; the Arab Palestinians not being one of them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew you couldn’t answer. Your usual retreat was expected.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is you who ducked the question.
Click to expand...


That’s another of your typical retreats when you can’t address the issue. Totally predictable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew you couldn’t answer. Your usual retreat was expected.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is you who ducked the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s another of your typical retreats when you can’t address the issue. Totally predictable.
Click to expand...

Do try to keep up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you agree that the Arab-Moslem invaders / squatters were there illegally.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew you couldn’t answer. Your usual retreat was expected.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is you who ducked the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s another of your typical retreats when you can’t address the issue. Totally predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do try to keep up.
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I thin you are reading to much into the Article 22; and that you do not understand the meaning of a *"party."*



P F Tinmore said:


> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.


*(COMMENT)*

Article 16 gives much greater sweeping powers than the limited power over immigration.  Article 16, as I indicated in the Previous Posting, covers "*the future of these territories* and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.



P F Tinmore said:


> Article 22 of the LoN Covenant suggests that the people concerned were the inhabitants of the territories.


*(COMMENT)*

Article 22 makes no such suggestion at all.  The Covenant _(or Treaty or an international agreement)_ is a communique and agreement between the signatories _(the parties concerned)_.

•  *Article 2 VIENNA CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF TREATIES*  •
*Use of terms*

1. For the purposes of the present Convention: 

(a) *'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States* in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation; 

(b) 'ratification', 'acceptance', 'approval' and 'accession' mean in each case the international act so named whereby a State establishes on the international plane its consent to be bound by a treaty;

(c) 'full powers' means a document emanating from the *competent authority of a State designating a person or persons to represent the State* for negotiating, adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty, for expressing the consent of the State to be bound by a treaty, or for accomplishing any other act with respect to a treaty; 

(d) 'reservation' means a unilateral statement, however phrased or named, made by a State, when signing, ratifying, accepting, approving or acceding to a treaty, whereby it purports to exclude or to modify the legal effect of certain provisions of the treaty in their application to that State; 

(e) 'negotiating State' means a State which took part in the drawing up and adoption of the text of the treaty; 

(f) 'contracting State' means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty, whether or not the treaty has entered into force; 

(g) *'party' means a State* which has *consented to be bound* by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force; 

(h) 'third State' means a State not a party to the treaty; 

(i) 'international organization' means an intergovernmental organization.​
At the time the League of Nations was established 1919, there was no "State" or other autonomous body in the Middle East area under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, known as "Palestine."  Palestine _(a Ghost Nation)_ is not listed as a "State which has consented to be bound" to the Covenant.  And, there was no competent authority for  "Palestine" to represent the Ghost Nation.

All these things have meaning.  You, as well as, the International Community, trying to maintain international peace and security, → we need to understand the claims we make and the impact our words carry.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


*"May 18, 2015"*












*- How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
- How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?*

....God wants us to "Love Thy Neighbor" - I understand that -- I don't want to hurt no one....













brr.




  .............we have to continue to be politically correct about things....
*

- behave like "mad dogs"?
- threaten to destroy the entire planet*









brr.






hamass [I.J., all of them] = "*mad dogs*" - i want to love them [as my neighbor] - but, can't.  Too much *evil* vomitus from them. 

.

.........and reading the 

 + their mental state.

Brr.

brr....  



Terrorist souls...



(don't worry, they do burn in hell).


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I thin you are reading to much into the Article 22; and that you do not understand the meaning of a *"party."*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does Article 16 mention immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 gives much greater sweeping powers than the limited power over immigration.  Article 16, as I indicated in the Previous Posting, covers "*the future of these territories* and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 22 of the LoN Covenant suggests that the people concerned were the inhabitants of the territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 22 makes no such suggestion at all.  The Covenant _(or Treaty or an international agreement)_ is a communique and agreement between the signatories _(the parties concerned)_.
> 
> •  *Article 2 VIENNA CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF TREATIES*  •
> *Use of terms*
> 1. For the purposes of the present Convention:
> 
> (a) *'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States* in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;
> 
> (b) 'ratification', 'acceptance', 'approval' and 'accession' mean in each case the international act so named whereby a State establishes on the international plane its consent to be bound by a treaty;
> 
> (c) 'full powers' means a document emanating from the *competent authority of a State designating a person or persons to represent the State* for negotiating, adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty, for expressing the consent of the State to be bound by a treaty, or for accomplishing any other act with respect to a treaty;
> 
> (d) 'reservation' means a unilateral statement, however phrased or named, made by a State, when signing, ratifying, accepting, approving or acceding to a treaty, whereby it purports to exclude or to modify the legal effect of certain provisions of the treaty in their application to that State;
> 
> (e) 'negotiating State' means a State which took part in the drawing up and adoption of the text of the treaty;
> 
> (f) 'contracting State' means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty, whether or not the treaty has entered into force;
> 
> (g) *'party' means a State* which has *consented to be bound* by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> (h) 'third State' means a State not a party to the treaty;
> 
> (i) 'international organization' means an intergovernmental organization.​
> At the time the League of Nations was established 1919, there was no "State" or other autonomous body in the Middle East area under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, known as "Palestine."  Palestine _(a Ghost Nation)_ is not listed as a "State which has consented to be bound" to the Covenant.  And, there was no competent authority for  "Palestine" to represent the Ghost Nation.
> 
> All these things have meaning.  You, as well as, the International Community, trying to maintain international peace and security, → we need to understand the claims we make and the impact our words carry.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This is a little unusual because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states. Upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne these new states came into being. As successor states they had rights and obligations under treaty and international law. Notably the rule of state succession in regard to nationality and citizenship. The land and the people were transferred to the respective new state.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is entirely incorrect.  And for that era, it was *not unusual* at all.  The practices that followed the Great War (WWI) were in accordance with the Treaty of Westphalia.  And much of the international practices of the modern-day owe their origins to the Treaty of Westphalia.  It was the same practices that gave the US former Spanish holdings _(Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the transferred sovereignty of the Philippines to the United States)_.



			
				Written By: The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica said:
			
		

> *•  Peace of Westphalia*, European settlements of 1648, which brought to an end the Eighty Years’ War between Spain and the Dutch and the German phase of the Thirty Years’ War. The peace was negotiated, from 1644, in the Westphalian towns of Münster and Osnabrück. The Spanish-Dutch treaty was signed on January 30, 1648. The treaty of October 24, 1648, comprehended the Holy Roman emperor Ferdinand III, the other German princes, France, and Sweden. England, Poland, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire were the only European powers that were not represented at the two assemblies. Some scholars of international relations credit the treaties with *providing the foundation of the modern state system and articulating the concept of territorial sovereignty*.



Over the course of the last half-century, there has been much misinformation about what this and that Treaty had to say; and the application of successor state protocols.  And these teardrops of misinformation have grown into a monster.



P F Tinmore said:


> This is a little unusual because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states. Upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne, these new states came into being. As successor states, they had rights and obligations under the treaty and international law. Notably the rule of state succession in regard to nationality and citizenship. The land and the people were transferred to the respective new state.


*(COMMENT)*

The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other.  NO Middle Eastern State or Nation, Past or Present, signed the Treaty of Lausanne.  AND, the Allied Powers determined the carve-outs for the emerging states in the Middle East, not the Treaty.  Article 3 of the Treaty of Lausanne spoke to "Syria" and "Iraq."  But you will note that the Treaty of Lausanne defaults to the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is entirely incorrect.  And for that era, it was *not unusual* at all.  The practices that followed the Great War (WWI) were in accordance with the Treaty of Westphalia.  And much of the international practices of the modern-day owe their origins to the Treaty of Westphalia.  It was the same practices that gave the US former Spanish holdings _(Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the transferred sovereignty of the Philippines to the United States)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Written By: The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  Peace of Westphalia*, European settlements of 1648, which brought to an end the Eighty Years’ War between Spain and the Dutch and the German phase of the Thirty Years’ War. The peace was negotiated, from 1644, in the Westphalian towns of Münster and Osnabrück. The Spanish-Dutch treaty was signed on January 30, 1648. The treaty of October 24, 1648, comprehended the Holy Roman emperor Ferdinand III, the other German princes, France, and Sweden. England, Poland, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire were the only European powers that were not represented at the two assemblies. Some scholars of international relations credit the treaties with *providing the foundation of the modern state system and articulating the concept of territorial sovereignty*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the course of the last half-century, there has been much misinformation about what this and that Treaty had to say; and the application of successor state protocols.  And these teardrops of misinformation have grown into a monster.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a little unusual because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states. Upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne, these new states came into being. As successor states, they had rights and obligations under the treaty and international law. Notably the rule of state succession in regard to nationality and citizenship. The land and the people were transferred to the respective new state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other.  NO Middle Eastern State or Nation, Past or Present, signed the Treaty of Lausanne.  AND, the Allied Powers determined the carve-outs for the emerging states in the Middle East, not the Treaty.  Article 3 of the Treaty of Lausanne spoke to "Syria" and "Iraq."  But you will note that the Treaty of Lausanne defaults to the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't see the relevance to my post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is entirely incorrect.  And for that era, it was *not unusual* at all.  The practices that followed the Great War (WWI) were in accordance with the Treaty of Westphalia.  And much of the international practices of the modern-day owe their origins to the Treaty of Westphalia.  It was the same practices that gave the US former Spanish holdings _(Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the transferred sovereignty of the Philippines to the United States)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Written By: The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  Peace of Westphalia*, European settlements of 1648, which brought to an end the Eighty Years’ War between Spain and the Dutch and the German phase of the Thirty Years’ War. The peace was negotiated, from 1644, in the Westphalian towns of Münster and Osnabrück. The Spanish-Dutch treaty was signed on January 30, 1648. The treaty of October 24, 1648, comprehended the Holy Roman emperor Ferdinand III, the other German princes, France, and Sweden. England, Poland, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire were the only European powers that were not represented at the two assemblies. Some scholars of international relations credit the treaties with *providing the foundation of the modern state system and articulating the concept of territorial sovereignty*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the course of the last half-century, there has been much misinformation about what this and that Treaty had to say; and the application of successor state protocols.  And these teardrops of misinformation have grown into a monster.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a little unusual because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states. Upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne, these new states came into being. As successor states, they had rights and obligations under the treaty and international law. Notably the rule of state succession in regard to nationality and citizenship. The land and the people were transferred to the respective new state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other.  NO Middle Eastern State or Nation, Past or Present, signed the Treaty of Lausanne.  AND, the Allied Powers determined the carve-outs for the emerging states in the Middle East, not the Treaty.  Article 3 of the Treaty of Lausanne spoke to "Syria" and "Iraq."  But you will note that the Treaty of Lausanne defaults to the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see the relevance to my post.
Click to expand...


You wouldn’t be able too.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah,.  I quoted your post, and answered it nearly sentence by sentence.



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see the relevance to my post.


*(COMMENT)*

•  (YOU)  "This is a* little unusual* because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states."
✪  (ME)  I explain why it is not "unsual."​•  (YOU)  "Upon the *signing of the Treaty of Lausanne*, these new states came into being. As successor states,"
✪  (ME)  I explained why the signing of the treaty had nothing to do with the emergence of the new states.
✪  (ME) I explained why the new creations were NOT true successor states.​•  (YOU)  "Notably the rule of state succession in regard to nationality and citizenship."
✪  (ME)  I explained why the signing of the treaty (and Article 30) had nothing to do with an enforeable assignment of nationality and citizenship.​I hate it when you get direct answers, and then say they are irrelevant because its not what you want to hear.  If I go into too much detail, you claim my answer is verbose.  If I state bullet facts, you claim irrelevance.  If you want more detail --- ask a specific question.

Finally, there is no mandatory "rule" for "state succession."  The succession of states is a matter of recognition by other states and the acceptance by the "parties concerned."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • (YOU) "This is a* little unusual* because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states."
> ✪ (ME) I explain why it is not "unsual."


How many other empires were carved into new states?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • (YOU) "Upon the *signing of the Treaty of Lausanne*, these new states came into being. As successor states,"
> ✪ (ME) I explained why the signing of the treaty had nothing to do with the emergence of the new states.
> ✪ (ME) I explained why the new creations were NOT true successor states.


You did?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • (YOU) "This is a* little unusual* because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states."
> ✪ (ME) I explain why it is not "unsual."
> 
> 
> 
> How many other empires were carved into new states?
Click to expand...


Do the research and you may find them. Shirley you can troll through YouTube?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • (YOU) "Notably the rule of state succession in regard to nationality and citizenship."
> ✪ (ME) I explained why the signing of the treaty (and Article 30) had nothing to do with an enforeable assignment of nationality and citizenship.


You did?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • (YOU) "This is a* little unusual* because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states."
> ✪ (ME) I explain why it is not "unsual."
> 
> 
> 
> How many other empires were carved into new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do the research and you may find them. Shirley you can troll through YouTube?
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, Let's see.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • (YOU) "This is a* little unusual* because the Ottoman/Turkish empire was carved up into new states."
> ✪ (ME) I explain why it is not "unusual."
> 
> 
> 
> How many other empires were carved into new states?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Umayyad Dynasty (AKA:  First Muslim Dynasty) was once the Rulers over lands that would later become the Ottoman Empire; and then more.  As did the Babylonian Empire.  

Most Empires dissolve, much like the Roman Empire _(how many states emerged, I don't know)_.  In more recent times, both the British Empire and the USSR dissolved; and may not have reached their final form.  Several Empires in the shadow of the Great War.

At the end of hostilities of the Great War, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was established as a federation of states.  But like other regions, it is still evolving going from the WWI Classic into what (I don't know how to count them), a half dozen republics and a couple of autonomous provinces.

Have we seen the last empire?  I don't know.  What I do know is that, even before the time of Moses and the Burning Bush, Empires have risen and fallen, and no two dissolved in the same way.  In many respects, there is no such thing as the "usual" -- yet the concept that the "victors" form the post-War process has been around for thousands of years.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The cracks between the different populations become more evident as time goes by. A conversation with an Israeli Arab quickly highlights this. So do discussions with many Arab residents of East Jerusalem, people who exhibit open reluctance to return to ‘PA’ control. Arabs of Ramallah have become unwilling to place their relative prosperity at risk for Hamas led Gaza. Beyond a dislike of Jews and Zionism, there is little ‘political or national bonding’ amongst many of these populations.

This is often missed by visitors to Palestinian towns. Walk through a neighborhood during times of conflict and look at the pictures of ‘martyrs’ in the streets. Walk down one street and you’ll see the image of a ‘martyr’, a terrorist who died killing or trying to kill Israelis. Turn into a different street and a different image appears. Palestinian streets are families, the images are members of their clans. The funeral procession will not venture into, nor be welcomed in, another clan’s street. They are often rivals. In reality it is surprising how numerous, deep and localised those divisions can be.

This is not a denial of modern Palestinian identity, it is merely history supported by verifiable observations. It has serious repercussions in the search for peace. Just which Palestinian group do you negotiate with? And how many people do they represent? Does a signature by one group mean anything, when rival groups will always reject some of the terms?

In any event, for our group this meant that as Gaza marched to the violent tune of Hamas, we could head towards the calm atmosphere of ‘Area A’. The region under direct control of the Palestinian Authority.

(full article online)

Beyond the great divide, a trip inside the Palestinian areas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Italians trained to fight Israel in Palestinian refugee camps, former Arafat adviser says


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jordan is an ally of the United States. A March 2018 "Fact Sheet" issued by the State Department and entitled "*U.S. Security Cooperation With Jordan*" calls the Hashemite Kingdom
a critical and close partner for the United States in the Middle East with which we share a number of important strategic goals. Jordan has been a staunch U.S. ally in the global effort to defeat the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and other terrorist groups. Jordan is also a close partner with the United States on a range of diplomatic and security challenges throughout the region, among them the crisis in Syria, combating violent extremism, and advancing Middle East peace. Jordan’s stability and security is a priority for the United States, which has provided assistance to Jordan... Then there's also this:

Jordan has treaty obligations to the US and seeks - successfully so far - to avoid them in the specific case of the murderer of Jewish children and Israeli citizens even as it agrees to extradite other Jordanian felons whose victims weren't Jews or Israelis.

And this:

Jordan provides a safe haven for one of the highest-profile individual propagandists for Hamas' brand of Islamist terror currently active.

If Jordan respects its US ally, it ought to be acting very differently and the US ought to be letting the Jordanian regime know what is expected of it. If Tamimi is a test, up until now there can be little doubt the jihadists are ahead.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 01-Jun-18: On watching our child's killer


----------



## Sixties Fan

by Nan Jacques Zilberdik



When Palestinians tune in to the official PA radio station, _The Voice of Palestine_, they hear songs encouraging them to seek Martyrdom-death and to sacrifice themselves for Jerusalem, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and “Palestine.” Catchy lyrics pass on the message that Palestinians are “not afraid of death,” and teach them that already in its mother’s womb, the fetus is “a proud Martyr” who has “Palestine etched on the heart”:








_Click to view video_

“Our Martyrs are convoys and our bones are mountains
They don’t surrender to the lowly
We aren't deterred by imprisonment
*Palestine is etched on the heart of the fetus*

*A proud Martyr in his mother’s womb*

And the Arab state will remain ours - Arab, Arab PalestineWe [hold] the rifles to our chests and our eyes are raised to you
Our homes are trenches and our souls are the sacrifice for youO Jerusalem, you will not remain stolen.”
[“The First Direction of Prayer” by Syrian singer Assala Nasri, 
 Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, Feb. 3, 2018]



The Fatah-run TV station Awdah broadcast the music video of this song too (video above): 









[Fatah-run Awdah TV, May 15, 2018]



Discussing PA media’s responsibilities, Director General of _The Voice of Palestine_ Bassam Daghlas has stated that PA radio works diligently to “defend Jerusalem and Palestine” - in cooperation with the PA Ministry of Information:



“We are working day and night to convey the facts to the world, defend Jerusalem, and defend our Palestinian cause and Palestine. We are cooperating with the brothers in the [PA] Ministry of Information... in uniting the Palestinian voice over the radio waves, the voice of the Palestinian people."
[Official PA TV, Dec. 12, 2017

(full article online)

“The fetus, a proud Martyr in his mother’s womb” – Songs on official PA radio - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is a story that ought to have major exposure across the world. However, the media is simply NOT reporting this incident.

The media is probably NOT reporting this because it shows the true situation of Christians in Bethlehem. A Priest in a Bethlehem Church was stabbed by a Muslim after asking him to stop sexually harassing a Christian pilgram lady. Thankfully it was caught on a security camera so it can’t be denied.

(vide video online)

Priest Stabbed by Muslim in Bethlehem Caught on Security Camera


----------



## Mindful

Lies, lies, lies.... Or even worth - half truth lies.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Coalition for Economic, Social and Cultural Rights sounds like one of the scores of NGOs set up in the territories just to attract European cash and bash Israel.

Its most recent press releases all are missing the word  "Israel." Amazingly, they are blaming the PA for what every Palestinian (and few Westerners) know - that the government of Mahmoud Abbas has been systematically oppressing Gazans for well over a year now for political ends.





Last week it issued a statement saying "the Palestinian Authority has taken punitive measures against its employees in the Gaza Strip, which accounted for a 30% to 60% reduction of their salaries since April 2017, in the context of pressure on Hamas to resolve the administrative situation of the sector and enable the government to exercise its functions, These measures have affected all aspects of life in the sector, especially after imposing more penalties and wage cuts, and the transfer of a large number of employees to forced retirement, exacerbating the humanitarian crisis to the detriment of the citizens' decent living. "

(full article online)

Palestinians know Abbas is to blame for Gaza. When will the West wake up? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Another wasted life....for Allah.....for all Muslim conquered land ]

Defense officials said that Agbar entered Israel from the West Bank on a one-day permit with a group known as “Natural Peace Tours,” which is supposed to forge relationships between Palestinians and Israelis.

In December, he crossed the Green Line into Israel with the intention of carrying out an attack at the Dead Sea. However, when his taxi driver told him that few tourists were expected that day, he decided to turn back.

The indictment said that in March, Agbar determined that Tel Aviv would be a more suitable location to target Israelis. He subsequently began planning the attack by reaching out to Natural Peace Tours and studying the waterfront location using Google Maps.

He sharpened his belt buckle, transforming it into a makeshift knife that could pass through Israeli security checks.

(full article online)

Palestinian teen convicted of attempted murder in peace visit stabbing attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  The assailants are from Gaza?  How did they get out from that "prison"?  And "Berlin is our city now"  !!!   When did they buy it?  How can they afford it when they are as poor as their PR constantly says? ]



The Israeli teen, 17 and identified only as Yonatan, told the Hebrew-language Israel Hayom newspaper that he and his two friends, also 17, were waiting for a train when he played Israeli singer Omer Adam’s song “Tel Aviv” on his phone.





A group of Arab men heard the Hebrew lyrics from the song and approached the three teens.

Yonatan said they shouted at him “Hebrew music? For 70 years you are murdering children. Berlin is our city now and here we don’t listen to fucking Jewish music.”

After pointing out that just as they can play Arabic music he can listen to Israeli music, Yonatan said, he and his friends moved away from the group but they were followed.

(full article online)

Israeli says he was assaulted in Berlin for listening to Hebrew song


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Jazeera maintains that “the fifth day of June 1967 is a day the Arabs are still viewing as a remarkable day in their modern history, a day where the armies of three Arab countries could not stand up to the Zionist occupation army, met a terrible defeat, and let Israel occupy the Gaza Strip and the West Bank and the rest of the Jerusalem, as well as the Syrian Golan Heights and Sinai, to become the dominant force in the region, deepening the notion of their having an invincible army.”

“The defeat of the Arabs in the June 1967 war, which was followed by the death of Gamal Abdel Nasser in 1970, constituted the decisive blow that ended nationalism,” said Fawaz Gerges, a professor of international relations. “The Arabs have lived for years under the dreams of cultural glory and strength, but their defeat them within a few hours at the hands of the emerging Jewish state led to the collapse of the foundation myth of Arab nationalism, embarrassing their guardian – Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser, which led to dispelling the promise of a bright future.”

(full article online)

So Many Catastrophes, So Little Time: Nakba Day Is Over, Here Comes the Naksa


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nor has Hamas been an exception to this rule. Not only has its leadership been highly educated, but it has gone to great lengths to educate its followers, notably through the takeover of the Islamic University in Gaza and its transformation into a hothouse for indoctrinating generations of militants and terrorists. Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin studied at the al-Azhar University in Cairo, probably the Islamic world’s most prestigious institution of higher religious learning, while his successor, Abdel Aziz Rantisi, was a physician, as is Hamas cofounder Mahmoud Zahar. The group’s current leader, Ismail Haniyeh, and Muhammad Def, head of Hamas’s military wing, are graduates of the Islamic University of Gaza, while Khaled Mashaal studied physics in Kuwait, where he resided until 1990. Hardly the products of deprivation and despair.

This propensity for violence among the educated and moneyed classes of Palestinian society was starkly reflected in the identity of the 156 men and eight women who detonated themselves in Israel’s towns and cities during the first five years of the “al-Aqsa Intifada,” murdering 525 people, the overwhelming majority of them civilians. A mere 9% of the perpetrators had only a basic education, while 22% were university graduates and 34% were high school graduates. Likewise, a comprehensive study of Hamas and Islamic Jihad suicide terrorists from the late 1980s to 2003 found that only 13% came from a poor background, compared with 32% of the Palestinian population in general. More than half of suicide bombers had entered further education compared with just 15% of the general population.

By contrast, successive public opinion polls among the Palestinian residents of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip during the 1990s revealed far stronger support for the nascent peace process with Israel, and opposition to terrorism, among the poorer and less educated parts of society – representing the vast majority of the population. Thus, for example, 82% of people with a low education supported the Interim Agreement of September 1995, providing for Israel’s withdrawal from the populated Palestinian areas of the West Bank, and 80% opposed terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians, compared to 55% and 65%, respectively, among university graduates.

In short, it is not socioeconomic despair but the total rejection of Israel’s right to exist, inculcated by the PLO and Hamas in their hapless West Bank and Gaza subjects over the past 25 years, which underlies the relentless anti-Israel violence emanating from these territories and its attendant economic stagnation and decline.

At the time of the September 1993 signing of the Israel-PLO Declaration of Principles, conditions in the territories were far better than in most Arab states – despite the steep economic decline caused by the intifada of 1987-93. But within six months of Arafat’s arrival in Gaza in July 1994, the standard of living in the Strip fell by 25%, and more than half the area’s residents claimed to have been happier under Israel. Even so, at the time Arafat launched his war of terrorism in September 2000, Palestinian income per capita was nearly double Syria’s, more than four times Yemen’s, and 10% higher than Jordan’s – one of the better-off Arab states. Only the oil-rich Gulf states and Lebanon were more affluent.

(full article online)

It’s Not the Economy, Stupid


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who's politicizing sports?

Palestinian Football Association head Rajoub complained 
Israel is "politicizing sports" 
by hosting Argentina in "occupied" Jerusalem 
for a friendly football match

But who is really politicizing sports?

Who called to "burn" shirts and photos 
of Argentinian player Messi
to prevent him from playing in Israel 
and "beautifying the fascist occupation's image"? 
- Rajoub did


Who prohibited Palestinian players and athletes 
from competing against Israelis? 
- Rajoub did
Who called a friendly match between Palestinian and Israeli kids 
"a crime against humanity"?
- Rajoub did
Who is speaking against "normalization in sports" with Israel?
- Rajoub is
Who sponsored a tennis tournament named after murderer of 2?
- Rajoub did

(full article online)

Who’s politicizing sports? Jibril Rajoub is - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian mother of five just spent 23 days in prison. During her incarceration, she was held in unspeakable conditions and denied family visitations. She was also prohibited from consulting a lawyer.

This is a story that no one has heard in the West.

Why? Because the Palestinian woman, Samah Abu Ghayyath, was detained not by Israel, but by Hamas, the Palestinian terror group that rules the Gaza Strip.

Abu Ghayyath would have been "fortunate" if she had been arrested by Israel. Then, the case would have reached the pages of major media outlets around the world and "pro-Palestinian" activists would have staged demonstrations and online campaigns to support her and denounce Israel.

By contrast, for instance, consider the example of Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian teenage girl from a village near Ramallah in the West Bank. In December 2017, Tamimi was detained by Israeli authorities for physically assaulting an Israeli soldier. After agreeing to a plea bargain, she was sentenced to 8 months in prison.

Tamimi has since become a symbol of the Palestinian "struggle" against Israel. She is glorified by many in the mainstream media in the West and advocates of Palestinian human rights around the world, who have turned her into an icon.

Tamimi has won all this fame and glory because she and her family members have long been staging skirmishes with Israeli soldiers in their village of Nabi Saleh. The teenager and her parents have made it a habit to invite journalists -- or anyone carrying a camera -- to document their provocative actions against the soldiers.

Abu Ghayyath, however, the woman from the Gaza Strip, has been less fortunate than the golden girl from the West Bank.

Unlike Tamimi, the arrest of the mother of five in early May by Hamas did not spark an international outcry. Western journalists and human rights organizations did not endorse Abu Ghayyath, as they were quick to do with Tamimi, a girl who hit an Israeli soldier.

Had Abu Ghayyath been arrested by Israel, her name would have appeared on the front pages of _The New York Times_ and in the broadcasts of the BBC and CNN. The only ones who picked up her ordeal and demanded her release, however, were a few Palestinian women's groups and, of course, her family.

(full article online)

Palestinians: A Story You Have Not Heard in the West


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Palestinian Student Says She’ll ‘F**k Up A Zionist’


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to a study carried out last year by the Israel Democracy Institute just 14% of the Arab citizens of Israel define their primary identity as Palestinian. However, even in the contemporary era of race and gender self-identification, one BBC World Service radio presenter appears to have granted himself the prerogative of deciding how Israel’s Arab citizens should be defined.

----------------

The BBC itself reported at the time that:

“In a twist to the story, the Israeli victim later told German media that he had grown up in an Arab family in Israel and was not himself Jewish. He had been given the kippah a few days before by a friend from Israel who had told him it was dangerous to wear one in Berlin and he wanted to see if that was true.”

In addition to Donnison’s inaccurate portrayal of the reason why Armoush wore the kippa, he presented the subsequent rallies in Germany as being “in support of Adam Armoush” when in fact they were advertised as having a broader aim:

“As a sign against anti-Semitism, people in several German cities have taken to the streets with the traditional Jewish headgear, the Kippa. Jews and non-Jews gathered on Wednesday in Berlin, Cologne, Erfurt, Magdeburg and Potsdam for solidarity rallies.”

And despite there being no record of Adam Armoush having self-identified as a “Palestinian” in the various interviews he gave to the media, Jon Donnison took it upon himself to portray him as such to BBC World Service radio listeners.

(full article online)

BBC ‘Newshour’ presenter Donnison decides an Israeli’s identity


----------



## Sixties Fan

Seizing an opportunity to glorify terrorists, Fatah's Student Movement Shabiba at Birzeit University put photos of terrorists on greetings it distributed wishing students good luck on their exams.

The cards featured pictures of the following heads of terror organizations: 

*Founder of the Hamas terror organization Ahmed Yassin*
*Former PLO and PA Chairman and founder of Fatah Yasser Arafat *
*Secretary-General of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Abu Ali Mustafa*
*Founder of the Islamic Jihad terror organization Fathi Shaqaqi*
(full article online)

Terrorists wish students "good luck" on exams - on greeting cards from Fatah student movement - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

[ Yes, holy Mosques is where one should be throwing things out at people ]

Two Palestinians were arrested on Thursday after a group of men inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount hurled chairs, stones and other objects from the holy site, lightly hurting a tourist and an Israeli police officer.

Thursday also marked the 51th anniversary of Israel’s retaking of the Old City and the Western Wall during the 1967 Six Day War.

(full article online)

Palestinians hurl chairs, stones from Al-Aqsa Mosque, injuring tourist, cop


----------



## Sixties Fan

For the second day in a row, Palestinian workers at the Kerem Shalom crossing have gone on a partial strike, closing down the only major route for goods to enter Gaza for half a day.

The strike is over not being paid their full wages by the Palestinian Authority and over benefits.

On Wednesday, they stopped work from 8 AM to 1 PM, and only worked for four hours. It looks like the same thing is happening today.

There are no negotiations going on with the PA so the strike looks like it is open-ended.

I could not find a single story in English about this.

(full article online)

Gazans close Kerem Shalom crossing ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The easing of economic conditions – a strategy that benefited Palestinian areas in the West Bank – is increasingly touted as the way to achieve political stability in Gaza, which is ruled by Hamas. But this strategy only works after the enemy is defeated.

(full article online)

Economic Benefits Will Not Bring Stability to Gaza


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## Sixties Fan

There is no blockade on the Gaza Strip. Goods that are turned into tools of destruction enter from Israel unhindered. The people responsible for sabotaging the supply routes are members of Hamas. That is how the polyethylene for greenhouses is used to build incendiary kites, and cement and electricity are used to build tunnels and missiles. Had they wanted to, the "poor, unfortunate souls" who smuggle bombs and drones into Gaza could just as easily have brought in antibiotics and medicines.

And on this side of the border, the merciful compete to offer suggestions to provide relief for Gaza's residents, as if doing so would bring any change to the violent agenda promoted by Hamas. And the much-discussed "hudna" (truce) will only serve as a catalyst to bolster the terrorist organization's standing.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/holding-everyone-else-responsible/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sirhan Sirhan: Robert F. Kennedy Assassination Was 50 Years Ago | National Review


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel has appealed to the United Nations to intervene in southern Lebanon, saying that the Palestinian terror group Hamas is working with Hezbollah to establish missile factories and camps to train thousands of fighters there.

The issue was first reported Saturday by a Lebanese daily, quoting UN sources. It was later confirmed by the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem, which said the issue has been regularly raised at the UN.

(full article online)

Israel says Hamas working with Hezbollah to train ‘thousands’ in Lebanon


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas, which organizes the Gaza riots, has stated that one of their goals in rioting is to anger PA Arabs to act against the PA, in preparation for a Hamas takeover of both PA and PLO institutions.

(full article online)

Protest against Palestinian Authority - in Ramallah


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas base was located approximately three kilometers (1.9 miles) from the Israeli border. The tunnel in question did not cross the border into Israeli territory, but instead extended dozens of meters underwater into the sea, according to IDF spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus.

The military believes the tunnel was meant to allow frogmen from Hamas’s elite naval unit to travel from their base on the shore into the sea underground, and thus undetected. From there, they could travel underwater to their Israeli targets, Conricus told reporters in a phone briefing.

“We know that it was an operational tunnel that has been used, or at least trained in, before,” he said.

The officer said the army decided to reveal that it had destroyed Hamas’s “strategic” tunnel one week later in order to “be clear what the consequences were” for rocket attacks.

(full article online)

IDF says it destroyed Hamas undersea tunnel in last week’s airstrikes


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas, which organizes the Gaza riots, has stated that one of their goals in rioting is to anger PA Arabs to act against the PA, in preparation for a Hamas takeover of both PA and PLO institutions.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Protest against Palestinian Authority - in Ramallah


If this is true, this could be interesting. About 85% of Palestinians want Abbas to leave. So, whatever protest Hamas has planned it could get out of hand.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas, which organizes the Gaza riots, has stated that one of their goals in rioting is to anger PA Arabs to act against the PA, in preparation for a Hamas takeover of both PA and PLO institutions.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Protest against Palestinian Authority - in Ramallah
> 
> 
> 
> If this is true, this could be interesting. About 85% of Palestinians want Abbas to leave. So, whatever protest Hamas has planned it could get out of hand.
Click to expand...


It makes no difference what Arabs-Moslems want. Their dictators have an endless welfare entitlement syndicate to exploit.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Deadly Fuel Canister Bomb Dismantled at Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron


----------



## Sixties Fan

*“No causal relationship between economic hardship & mass violence”  *

In his piece this week, Karsh recalls that: “At the time of the September 1993 signing of the Israel-PLO Declaration of Principles, conditions in the territories were far better than in most Arab states…But within six months of Arafat’s arrival in Gaza (in July 1994), the standard of living in the Strip fell by 25%, and more than half of the area’s residents claimed to have been happier under Israel.” 

Significantly, he notes: “…. at the time Arafat launched his war of terrorism in September 2000, Palestinian income per capita was nearly double Syria’s, more than four times Yemen’s, and 10% higher than Jordan’s – one of the better-off Arab states. Only the oil rich Gulf states and Lebanon were more affluent.”

With regard to Gaza, Karsh underscores: “…countless nations and groups in today’s world endure far harsher socioeconomic or political conditions than the Palestinians, yet none have embraced violence and terrorism against their neighbors with such alacrity and on such a massive scale.”

He aptly points out “…, there is no causal relationship between economic hardship and mass violence. On the contrary, in the modern world it is not the poor and the oppressed who have carried out the worst acts of terrorism and violence but, rather, the militant vanguards from among the better educated and more moneyed circles of society.” 

So, as Karsh reiterates: “…it is not socioeconomic despair but the total rejection of Israel’s right to exist…which underlies the relentless anti-Israel violence emanating from these territories and its attendant economic stagnation and decline.”

Couldn’t put it better myself!
----------
*Unlike Germany and Japan…*

For unlike any prospective self-governing Palestinian entity, which sees itself unequivocally bound culturally, ethnically and religiously to the larger Islamic world, Germany was not surrounded by a swathe of kindred Teutonic nations—nor Japan by kindred Nipponic nations—which, driven by a radical Teutonic/Nipponic ideology, strove continually to undermine the stability and legitimacy of any peaceable regime that foreign powers might install.

This, however, was the case in both Iraq and Afghanistan—and is certainly likely to be the case for any self-governing Palestinian entity ,whether in Judea- Samaria or in Gaza.

Unlike defeated Berlin (and Tokyo), Baghdad (and Kabul) along with their environs, were continually assailed by Islamic insurgents, financed, armed and equipped from surrounding Muslim countries, to undermine any arrangement or undercut any resolution the victorious powers wished to implement and imperiling any government, not to their liking.

Clearly, this is very likely to be the case in the Israeli/Palestinian situation, with regional Muslim-majority countries constituting a virtually unending source of post-victory instability and incitement. Accordingly, because any attempted remolding or “sociopolitical and educational transformation” is likely to be impeded—even up-ended—by external sources of incitement and agitation, the only way Israel can ensure that Gaza (or Judea-Samaria) will not be taken over by some inimical radical regime is to govern these areas by itself.

But the only way Israel can govern these territories itself, without the need to rule over a recalcitrant alien ethnic group, is to remove that ethnic group from those territories.

What could be simpler or more self-evident??

*The real humanitarian solution to Gaza’s humanitarian crisis*

Clearly then, persisting with the current format of humanitarian effort will only exacerbate the humanitarian crisis. Accordingly, this effort must be restructured and redirected.

Indeed, the only durable humanitarian solution that can ensure Israeli security and relieve Israel from the burden of “ruling over another people”, is *to generously finance the relocation/rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazan population to third party countries, and allow them to build more prosperous and more secure lives, *outside the “circle of violence”, to which they will inevitably be subject, if they remain where they are—no matter what the level of humanitarian aid.

All we need now is leadership with sufficient political will, intellectual daring, and ideological commitment to undertake what must be undertaken.

Why would that be a problem??

(full article online)

INTO THE FRAY: Gaza—The “humanitarian” hoax


----------



## Sixties Fan

Excerpt:

Palestinians will continue to believe, resist, and insist that Israel’s decades-long military occupation will eventually end – with or without Mr. Greenblatt.

His statements only serve as a distraction. Palestinian efforts to liberate Palestine from Israeli oppression is not about who constitutes the Palestinian leadership – the same leadership that is criticized by its own citizenry and press, such as the _Al Quds _newspaper that ran Mr. Greenblatt’s article in Arabic, in the same manner as in any democratic society – but about the Israeli occupation and those that help perpetuate Israeli oppression. Which is more than we can say for Israel, which continues to criminalize freedom of speech, but continues to garner U.S. support.

Just let that sit and percolate for a bit.

…

An Israeli newspaper is publishing Saeb Erekat’s lies and demonization of the Jewish state, which include his claim that Israel criminalizes freedom of speech.

(full article online)

Ha’aretz Goes Full Onion


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

[ Rebel with a Cause --  Kill Jews ]

PA: We will continue to support terrorists and their families


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week I mentioned that a Palestinian NGO had started a social media campaign against the PAgovernment for its punitive sanctions on Gaza that hurt two million people.

I mentioned that the group had called for a demonstration on Sunday last week, but I didn't see any coverage of it.

It turns out that there was a small demonstration last week, and today there was another. 

Dozens of people publicly called for the immediate lifting of all punitive measures imposed on the Gaza Strip and to end Abbas' sanctions against the territory.

Most interestingly, they emphasized a slogan: One people, one enemy.

(full article online)

Ramallah demonstrators against Abbas' siege of Gaza define Palestinianism: "One people, one enemy" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Rebel with a Cause --  Kill Jews ]
> 
> PA: We will continue to support terrorists and their families


I think your propaganda site is misquoting the PA.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Rebel with a Cause --  Kill Jews ]
> 
> PA: We will continue to support terrorists and their families
> 
> 
> 
> I think your propaganda site is misquoting the PA.
Click to expand...


I think your doe-eyed admiration of islamic terrorists is creepy.

‘Pay to slay’: Stop the absurdity!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Rebel with a Cause --  Kill Jews ]
> 
> PA: We will continue to support terrorists and their families
> 
> 
> 
> I think your propaganda site is misquoting the PA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think your doe-eyed admiration of islamic terrorists is creepy.
> 
> ‘Pay to slay’: Stop the absurdity!
Click to expand...

So you post another propaganda site.

Priceless.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Rebel with a Cause --  Kill Jews ]
> 
> PA: We will continue to support terrorists and their families
> 
> 
> 
> I think your propaganda site is misquoting the PA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think your doe-eyed admiration of islamic terrorists is creepy.
> 
> ‘Pay to slay’: Stop the absurdity!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post another propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...


Actually, Chuckles, the 2018 budget of your Islamic terrorist heroes in Ramallah’istan authorized the payments to Islamic terrorists and their families.

You’re paying the price for remaining profoundly ignorant.


----------



## Sixties Fan

On June 8, an estimated 250,000 people attended the Gay Pride Parade in Tel Aviv. Tourists from all around the world came to Israel to watch and participate in the event. The theme of this year's event is "The Community Makes History" -- a reference to the LGBT community in Israel.

Meanwhile, as the Israelis were celebrating tolerance on the streets of Tel Aviv, their Palestinian neighbors were busy doing precisely the opposite: they were demanding that people should be fired for producing a television comedy about gay people in the Gaza Strip.

The controversial program, called "Out of Focus," has drawn strong condemnations from Palestinians, who are now calling for punishing those responsible for "insulting Arab and Islamic values."

In Palestinian and Arab society, homosexuality is denounced and stigmatized. Homosexuality is illegal under Hamas rule in the Gaza Strip, and dozens of gay Palestinians have fled to Israel out of fear of persecution and harassment. In the West Bank, the laws of the Palestinian Authority also do not protect the rights of gay Palestinians.

(full article online)

Palestinians: No Place for Gays


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Tucker would argue numerous points for why Palestine fails the test of international law for statehood, he emphasized the Palestinian Authority’s inability to effectively govern the West Bank and Gaza as a single state.

(full article online)

Expert: Palestine fails international law test for statehood at ICC


----------



## Sixties Fan

Consensus among PA leaders to reward terror - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ramallah cracks down on demonstrations opposing Fatah's punitive measures against the coastal enclave's Hamas rulers

(full article online)

PA bans anti-Abbas West Bank protests after hundreds rally in support of Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Free Gaza  !!!    From the PA.   They already have their chose government.......Hamas.  Let Hamas pay their salaries  ]

Some 60,000 PA employees in the beleaguered Strip reel from Ramallah's decision to cut their pay amid ongoing Fatah-Hamas feud

In Gaza, unpaid Palestinian Authority salaries dampen Eid joy


----------



## Sixties Fan

The report notes that “Infant mortality rates in Israel and Gaza have been widely divergent. Infant mortality in Israel fell below 20 per 1000 live births in 1977, and most recent estimates show a rate of 3 per 1000 in 2015. In the West Bank, IMR is usually slightly lower than in Gaza. In 2014, an IMR of 17 was documented for infants born in the West Bank. In addition, the IMR in Egypt was 18 per 1000 live births in 2015.”

“In conclusion, the mortality rate among infants of Palestine refugees in Gaza has not shown a decline since 2006,” according to the report. “The rise of neonatal mortality in the previous survey was not confirmed. Stagnation of infant and neonatal mortality rates indicates that further investigation is needed to understand how the stalled decline in IMR can be addressed.”

(full article online)

UNRWA: Gaza Baby Mortality Shot Up As Soon As Israel Left


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The report notes that “Infant mortality rates in Israel and Gaza have been widely divergent. Infant mortality in Israel fell below 20 per 1000 live births in 1977, and most recent estimates show a rate of 3 per 1000 in 2015. In the West Bank, IMR is usually slightly lower than in Gaza. In 2014, an IMR of 17 was documented for infants born in the West Bank. In addition, the IMR in Egypt was 18 per 1000 live births in 2015.”
> 
> “In conclusion, the mortality rate among infants of Palestine refugees in Gaza has not shown a decline since 2006,” according to the report. “The rise of neonatal mortality in the previous survey was not confirmed. Stagnation of infant and neonatal mortality rates indicates that further investigation is needed to understand how the stalled decline in IMR can be addressed.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA: Gaza Baby Mortality Shot Up As Soon As Israel Left


An UNRWA press release issued on Wednesday says, “In Gaza, the socioeconomic situation has deteriorated dramatically in the past decade following the imposition of the blockade and subsequent conflicts.”​
Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The report notes that “Infant mortality rates in Israel and Gaza have been widely divergent. Infant mortality in Israel fell below 20 per 1000 live births in 1977, and most recent estimates show a rate of 3 per 1000 in 2015. In the West Bank, IMR is usually slightly lower than in Gaza. In 2014, an IMR of 17 was documented for infants born in the West Bank. In addition, the IMR in Egypt was 18 per 1000 live births in 2015.”
> 
> “In conclusion, the mortality rate among infants of Palestine refugees in Gaza has not shown a decline since 2006,” according to the report. “The rise of neonatal mortality in the previous survey was not confirmed. Stagnation of infant and neonatal mortality rates indicates that further investigation is needed to understand how the stalled decline in IMR can be addressed.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA: Gaza Baby Mortality Shot Up As Soon As Israel Left
> 
> 
> 
> An UNRWA press release issued on Wednesday says, “In Gaza, the socioeconomic situation has deteriorated dramatically in the past decade following the imposition of the blockade and subsequent conflicts.”​
> Indeed.
Click to expand...


No comment from the UNRWA welfare fraud regarding the net worth of Hamas and its leadership.

Indeed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Official PA TV host: *"A thousand blessings always to the souls of our heroic Martyrs *who water the land of Palestine with their blood every day*, until the independent State of Palestine whose capital is Jerusalem arises. Whoever doesn't like it - let them bang their head against the iron of the Damascus Gate."
[Official PA TV, _The Box_, May 28, 2018]








*Official PA TV host: *"A thousand blessings in honor of our *heroic Martyrs* who sacrificed their bodies and souls so that we will build a homeland worthy of this Martyrdom. All love, appreciation, and solidarity to their families behind them."
[Official PA TV, _The Box_, June 5, 2018

(full article online)

PA's worship of Martyrs' blood - now on game show - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah deputy chairman: Prisoners are "heroes and fighters"


----------



## Sixties Fan

He said that the government began to act to change this situation two and a half years ago, when it initiated a campaign to recruit thousands of new Arab police officers.

"Since this step was taken in a time of serious crisis of trust, and the suspicion was on both sides," he said. However, he said that the program's success "surprised us very much."

So far, twelve new police stations have been established in Arab communities.

"The change was immediate. There was less violence and more fruitful dialogue between the police and the residents, and the change began when the civilian realized that the police were with him and not against him.

"Our fundraising plan meant that at least one policeman would be recruited from every Arab town. Someone that will be a "symbol" of the rule of law in the community. Someone who is in uniform and everyone sees him. We believe that he will be an ambassador of the Israel Police on the Arab street and a representative of Arab society within the Israel Police."

(full article online)

Muslim police chief: Arab MKs have chosen path of violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now it is even more of a prison camp:

 The Lebanese Army has placed electronic security screening gates at all entrances to the Ain al-Hilweh Palestinian refugee camp in south Lebanon to screen everyone entering or leaving the camp. The installation of the gates around the perimeter of Ain al-Hilweh drew a strong rebuke from Palestinian factions and camp residents, with activists taking to social media to call for protests at the camp’s entrances. The camp has four main gates in addition to multiple smaller entry points.

The political leadership of secular and Islamists factions in Sidon Sunday held an emergency meeting to discuss the issue.

The leadership condemned the “e-gates, which damage the brotherly ties between the Lebanese and Palestinian peoples.”

In a statement released after the meeting, the Palestinian factions called for Lebanese authorities to remove the “e-gates, which [undermine] the dignity of the Palestinian people and the families in the Ain al-Hilweh camp.”

-------------------

They also spoke of the need for “bridges of trust” between Lebanese and Palestinian communities.I'm sure that the "pro-Palestinian activists" will pressure  entertainers to boycott Lebanon for treating Palestinians so badly. I mean, they really care about Palestinians and their rights, right?

(full article online)

A literal prison camp in Lebanon for Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel Police investigators, arriving on the scene around 11:00 pm, found additional explosive material in the fourth-floor apartment where the explosion happened. Eight suspects are now under arrest and being interrogated. No names have been released so far, and none of their affiliations (affiliations are a big deal in reporting on terrorism). One individual suffered critical injuries in the explosion and was hospitalized. Another man is much less injured.

That part of Shuafat is usually termed "refugee camp" in media reports. In reality, it's a suburban neighborhood of Jerusalem which is served by the indispensable Jerusalem Light Rail's one and only line (in fact, the light rail system's eastern terminus is at Shuafat).

And while it's certainly not the most gorgeous part of town, it's not exactly a concentration camp as we showed in a post some years ago ["*07-Nov-14: Hovels? Shanties? A Palestinian Arab refugee camp*"]. It's separated from the rest of the city by the meandering West Bank security barrier and that has a negative impact on easy of access - not to their own communities but to ours - and on law and order. You can get a sense of the questions that arise, and the absence of answers, here: "_Stuck between Israel and the PA, Shuafat refugee camp seethes_"[ Avi Issacharoff in Times of Israel, June 7, 2015]. Can UNRWA help them? Can the PA? Hamas? It hardly matters because the mess that is Shuafat today seems to serve the needs of all of them.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 14-Jun-18: In Jerusalem's Shuafat, an explosion reveals a secret bomb workshop


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Police Beat up Arabs Protesting the Palestinian Authority Sanctions against Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The List of Charges against Hamas*

In an official notice at the end of its weekly meeting on June 12, 2018, the Palestinian government, led by Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah, accused Hamas of unlawfully seizing control of the Gaza Strip in 2007, imposing its rule upon the residents, exploiting existing resources for its private interests, and abusing the Palestinian people while taking advantage of their difficult situation.

Below is an excerpt of the notice:

The dark revolution that Hamas carried out [when Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in a military coup in the summer of 2007] and the imposition of its rule upon the Gaza Strip with a policy that made life even harder for the residents, including imposing “royalties” under various names, such as fees and taxes for the Treasury that Hamas runs, in business, for gas, and on materials necessary for rehabilitation [infrastructure and buildings], taking control of government land and sharing it among its officials, seizing the electric company, energy authority, and natural resources in the [Gaza] Strip, using electricity for its private needs and then raising income for this [from payments for]electricity, controlling the crossings and the passage of goods and people, who are subjected to various kinds of extortion, such as squeezing high sums of money from the sick in exchange for producing a crossing permit for medical treatment, and controlling the money raised from the medical sector in the Gaza Strip through fees paid for medical insurance, and trading medicines and medical equipment sent to the Gaza Strip… Hamas is determined to put up obstacles and roadblocks to prevent the [Palestinian Authority] government from doing its job and exercising its full responsibility in a practical way, including in the Gaza Strip, in accordance with basic laws and all the laws that have been published with regard to all sectors and fields, without exception, including the reception of government offices and institutions, allowing clerks to return to their place of work, and the transfer of border crossings [to government authority].


(full article online)

Who is Responsible for the Harsh Humanitarian Situation in Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The world hears the conflict only through Netanyahu’s voice,” Abdallah said according to an English translation of his comments provided by CNN. “We are trying to make it hear us through the sound of these simple missiles.”

Three weeks ago, Islamic Jihad fired dozens of mortar shells and rockets at Israel, one of which landed next to a kindergarten, apparently in response to the Israeli army’s killing three of its members in a cross-border exchange that came amid violent border clashes between Palestinian protesters and the IDF.

Asked by Lee why Islamic Jihad fires rockets at Israel’s civilian population, Abdallah responded that “the world needs to know that the resistance never plans to target children,” but that mistakes are made.

“Israel is proud of its support from the United States and we are proud of Iran’s support of the Palestinian resistance, on the moral and logistical level,” he continued. “There is nothing wrong with it and that is not a secret.”

(full article online)

Islamic Jihad gives CNN a tour of Gaza tunnel, shows off rocket launcher


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Who are the Palestinians?  THe Arabs who are now calling themselves "Palestinians" are invaders from the Arabian Peninsula.

Almut Nebel's 2001 study, "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East" found that, '[T]he Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements. The early lineages are part of the common chromosome pool shared with Jews. According to our working model, the more-recent migrations were mostly from the ARABIAN PENINSULA [emphasis mine], as is seen in the Arab-specific Eu 10 chromosomes that include the modal haplotypes observed in Palestinians and Bedouins.'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Many Ways Palestinians Violate International Law


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tens of thousands of Palestinians are now living in a Lebanese ghetto called Ain Al-Hilweh, and the world seems to be fine with that.


No one cares when an Arab country mistreats and discriminates and kills Palestinians. But when something happens in the West Bank or Gaza Strip, the international media and community suddenly wake up. Why? Because they do not want to miss an opportunity to condemn Israel. One can only imagine the uproar in the world were Israel to pass a law denying Arabs jobs or the right to inherit property.


There are no protests on the streets of London or Paris. The UN Security Council has not -- and will not -- hold an emergency session to condemn Lebanon. Of course, the mainstream media in the West is not going to report about Arab apartheid and repressive measures against Palestinians. As for the leaders of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, they do not have time to address the problems of the camp residents. The Palestinian Authority and Hamas are too busy fighting each other, and the last thing they have on their minds are the interests and well-being of their people.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Victims of Arab Apartheid


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jerusalem district police commander prevents conference to declare Jerusalem the capital of Palestine. MK Odeh livid.

Pandemonium at Russian embassy in eastern Jerusalem


----------



## Mindful

Tens of thousands of Palestinians are now living in a Lebanese ghetto called Ain Al-Hilweh, and the world seems to be fine with that.

Of course, the mainstream media in the West is not going to report about Arab apartheid and repressive measures against Palestinians.




GATESTONEINSTITUTE.ORG

Palestinians: Victims of Arab Apartheid
Tens of thousands of Palestinians are now living in a Lebanese ghetto called Ain Al-Hilweh, and the world seems to be fine with that. No one cares when an Arab country mistreats and discriminates and kills Palestinians. But when something happens in the........


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And still, nothing before WWI ]

Lies Surrounding New Palestinian Museum in the US


----------



## Sixties Fan

Freedom of assembly, Palestinian-style ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

UNRWA to reduce operations in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Murder an Israeli and become famous - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza tensions flare: IDF strikes 8 more Hamas targets as rockets barrage south


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza tensions flare: IDF strikes 8 more Hamas targets as rockets barrage south


The Palestinian rocket fire appeared to come in response to the airstrikes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of the projectiles fired at Israel, seven were intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile system and at least three failed to clear the border and landed inside the Gaza Strip, the army said.

There were no immediate reports of injuries on either side of the border, but the Eshkol council reported damage to a number of buildings and cars.

Throughout Tuesday, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip flew numerous incendiary kites and balloons into southern Israel, sparking brush fires.

In response, Israeli aircraft struck three Hamas targets in the south of the coastal enclave around midnight on Tuesday.

(full article online)

45 rockets launched from Gaza amid night of intense IDF, Hamas fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 18-Jun-18: Large Hamas-aligned terror-attack-cell is busted in Nablus


----------



## Sixties Fan

In reporting on the trial in Berlin of a man who attacked an individual wearing a yarmulke, where the accused confessed to the court that he had committed the assault and then apologized to his victim, JTA also reported that the assailant was “identified as a 19-year-old Syrian Palestinian living in Germany since 2015,” reviving a term that hasn’t been in use for close to two millennia.

Syria Palaestina was a Roman province between 135 AD and about 390, according to historian Clayton Miles Lehmann (Palestine: History: 135–337: Syria Palaestina and the Tetrarchy). It was established by the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judea, following the defeat of the Bar Kochva revolt in 135 CE. Shortly after 193 CE, the northern regions were split off as Syria Coele in the north and Phoenice in the south, and the province Syria Palaestina became just Judea.

(full article online)

How Did ‘Syria Palaestina’ Come Back to Life 1,800 Years Later?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> In reporting on the trial in Berlin of a man who attacked an individual wearing a yarmulke, where the accused confessed to the court that he had committed the assault and then apologized to his victim, JTA also reported that the assailant was “identified as a 19-year-old Syrian Palestinian living in Germany since 2015,” reviving a term that hasn’t been in use for close to two millennia.
> 
> Syria Palaestina was a Roman province between 135 AD and about 390, according to historian Clayton Miles Lehmann (Palestine: History: 135–337: Syria Palaestina and the Tetrarchy). It was established by the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judea, following the defeat of the Bar Kochva revolt in 135 CE. Shortly after 193 CE, the northern regions were split off as Syria Coele in the north and Phoenice in the south, and the province Syria Palaestina became just Judea.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> How Did ‘Syria Palaestina’ Come Back to Life 1,800 Years Later?



I'm not sure we should be complaining about this.  The JTA article (or one of them anyway) calls him a Syrian citizen (national) of Palestinian origin, probably meaning that one or more of his grandparents was "Palestinian".  According to Palestinian law, this would provide him with preferential access to Palestinian citizenship, should he choose to access it.  But he also has Syrian nationality.  So, what's the problem?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jews dedicating a Torah to the Cave of the Patriarchs to help families of kids with cancer. Arabs want UNESCO to stop it. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian leadership’s rejection of normalized relations with Israel that were established in 1993 with the Oslo Exchange of Letters between PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and the PLO’s subsequent support for the global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign have created an economic void. The Palestinian and BDS leadership’s boycotts of Israeli employers of thousands of Palestinians, such as the internationally traded company SodaStream and Rami Levy, a leading Israeli supermarket chain, are hurting the Palestinian public. The Palestinian leadership has failed to fill the economic void by neglecting to meet promises to match the income, benefits, and other compensations for Palestinian employees once BDS causes their termination from Israeli owned businesses.

Major Palestinian commercial ventures that were established under the sanction of the Palestinian Authority, such as Austrian mogul Martin Shlaff’s Oasis Casino in the Palestinian city of Jericho, became centers for international money laundering for terror groups. They did little to benefit the Palestinian public. Some of the foreign-financed Palestinian industrial zones have also been tainted by local corruption, and have failed to provide adequate employment and services for large numbers of Palestinian workers.

In addition to encouraging corruption, the foreign aid dependence of the Palestinian economy has also retarded incentive for local economic development and independence and to establish an advanced infrastructure and rule of law. European aid agencies, EU member states, and organizations such as UNRWA have often stepped in to provide crucial economic assistance and employment in unsustainable cottage industries for Palestinians.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Authority’s Policy of Denormalization | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Jews dedicating a Torah to the Cave of the Patriarchs to help families of kids with cancer. Arabs want UNESCO to stop it. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



And threaten violence.  Its unbelievable.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The decreasing effectiveness of Hamas terrorism


----------



## Sixties Fan

EU: Hamas violating international law by holding Goldin’s body


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian leadership’s rejection of normalized relations with Israel that were established in 1993 with the Oslo Exchange of Letters between PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and the PLO’s subsequent support for the global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign have created an economic void. The Palestinian and BDS leadership’s boycotts of Israeli employers of thousands of Palestinians, such as the internationally traded company SodaStream and Rami Levy, a leading Israeli supermarket chain, are hurting the Palestinian public. The Palestinian leadership has failed to fill the economic void by neglecting to meet promises to match the income, benefits, and other compensations for Palestinian employees once BDS causes their termination from Israeli owned businesses.
> 
> Major Palestinian commercial ventures that were established under the sanction of the Palestinian Authority, such as Austrian mogul Martin Shlaff’s Oasis Casino in the Palestinian city of Jericho, became centers for international money laundering for terror groups. They did little to benefit the Palestinian public. Some of the foreign-financed Palestinian industrial zones have also been tainted by local corruption, and have failed to provide adequate employment and services for large numbers of Palestinian workers.
> 
> In addition to encouraging corruption, the foreign aid dependence of the Palestinian economy has also retarded incentive for local economic development and independence and to establish an advanced infrastructure and rule of law. European aid agencies, EU member states, and organizations such as UNRWA have often stepped in to provide crucial economic assistance and employment in unsustainable cottage industries for Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Authority’s Policy of Denormalization | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs


*This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*

**
**
**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian leadership’s rejection of normalized relations with Israel that were established in 1993 with the Oslo Exchange of Letters between PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and the PLO’s subsequent support for the global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign have created an economic void. The Palestinian and BDS leadership’s boycotts of Israeli employers of thousands of Palestinians, such as the internationally traded company SodaStream and Rami Levy, a leading Israeli supermarket chain, are hurting the Palestinian public. The Palestinian leadership has failed to fill the economic void by neglecting to meet promises to match the income, benefits, and other compensations for Palestinian employees once BDS causes their termination from Israeli owned businesses.
> 
> Major Palestinian commercial ventures that were established under the sanction of the Palestinian Authority, such as Austrian mogul Martin Shlaff’s Oasis Casino in the Palestinian city of Jericho, became centers for international money laundering for terror groups. They did little to benefit the Palestinian public. Some of the foreign-financed Palestinian industrial zones have also been tainted by local corruption, and have failed to provide adequate employment and services for large numbers of Palestinian workers.
> 
> In addition to encouraging corruption, the foreign aid dependence of the Palestinian economy has also retarded incentive for local economic development and independence and to establish an advanced infrastructure and rule of law. European aid agencies, EU member states, and organizations such as UNRWA have often stepped in to provide crucial economic assistance and employment in unsustainable cottage industries for Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Authority’s Policy of Denormalization | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs
> 
> 
> 
> *This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*
> 
> **
> **
> **
Click to expand...



On the other hand, you obviously enjoy being an Islamist stooge and being taken advantage of by the very Islamic terrorist heroes you worship.


Gaza's New Millionaires


Gaza’s Millionaires and Billionaires — How Hamas’s Leaders Got Rich Quick


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, no !!  ]

Hamas' money exchange company blacklisted as terror organization


----------



## Sixties Fan

These are things that Hamas is proud of! And the PA says far worse things about Hamas...

Apparently, whenever an Israeli says something that the PLO doesn't like, it is "incitement." Even if the statements are against the UNHRC:

 Prime Minister Netanyahu's Spokesperson, Ofir Gendelman (Twitter, May 18, 2018 )

“PM Netanyahu: There is nothing new under the sun. An organization that calls itself a Human Rights Council once again proved that it is hypocritical and biased and that its goal is to harm Israel and to support terrorism. But is has mostly proven that it is irrelevant.


”Where, exactly, is the incitement?

 Ofir Gendelman (Twitter, May 19, 2018 )

“Hamas, the Palestinian ISIS and an internationally recognized terror org, now thanks the UNHRC, its commissioner & voting countries for their resolution.

When a terror org whose goal is to destroy a UN member state THANKS a UN body, you know that this UN body is morally bankruptI guess that Israel is inciting against the UN Human Rights Council.

The entire reason that the Negotiations Affairs Department of the PLO has this section of their website is to pretend that Israeli incitement is just like Arab antisemitic incitement. The content doesn't matter; they just point to it and say, "see?" and their fans believe it without question.

(full article online)

What the Palestinians call "incitement" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Princess Alice, who lived in Greece during World War II, hid a Jewish family from the Nazis and was posthumously honored by Yad Vashem as one of the Righteous Among the Nations. Alice, who passed away in 1969, left instructions to be buried at Mary Magdalene cemetery. Her remains were transferred there in 1988.

Prince Charles, the grandson of Princess Alice (and heir to the throne of England) visited the graves of his grandmother, and her aunt, when he attended the funeral of Shimon Peres in 2016. But his visit to the Mount of Olives was undertaken secretly, without the knowledge of the public or news media, apparently for fear of offending the P.A.

It’s easy to see why the P.A. would have been offended by Prince Charles’ visit to his relatives’ graves—and why they will be unhappy if Prince William wants to do likewise.

Any focus on the Mount of Olives is a PR disaster for the Palestinians. It reminds the world that one of the most important Jewish religious sites in the world is situated in “eastern Jerusalem”—shattering the myth that it’s an all-Arab territory that belongs to the Palestinians. The P.A. and its media allies routinely call it “Arab East Jerusalem,” but that’s a lie. The Jewish people’s roots in eastern Jerusalem go back thousands of years, long before any Arab claims.

(full article online)

England’s royal ‘settlers’ understanding of Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Charles Krauthammer: Moral clarity in Gaza_


----------



## Sixties Fan

"It's become safer to demonstrate against Israel than against Abbas or the Palestinian Authority. Israel is at least a country of law and order and they have human rights organizations and a powerful media and judicial system. We can only continue to dream of having something like what the Jews have." — Palestinian activist.


At the end of the day, Palestinians know that the power struggle between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas is not between good guys and bad guys, but between bad guys and bad guys. These bad guys are no different from other Arab dictatorships that enslave and kill their people. Anyone who thinks that Mahmoud Abbas is eager to go back to the Gaza Strip is living in a dream world.


If the Palestinians ever wish to seek a better life, the first thing they need to do is rid themselves of the "leaders" who have destroyed their lives.

(full article online)

Palestinians: How to Achieve a Better Life


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Hail Murderer of 3 Israelis as ‘Reading Role Model’


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Sixties Fan said:


> _Charles Krauthammer: Moral clarity in Gaza_



"The Palestinians are quite prepared to sign interim agreements, like Oslo. Framework agreements, like Annapolis. Cease-fires, like the 1949 armistice. Anything but a final deal. Anything but a final peace. Anything but a treaty that ends the conflict once and for all — while leaving a Jewish state still standing."  -- Charles Krauthammer (1950-2018)

Charles Krauthammer: Land without peace: why Abbas went to the U.N.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is one point I made in my speech yesterday, that I hadn't thought of before preparing for it.

In 1974, after several years of airplane hijackings and other terror attacks, Yasir Arafat went to the UN and gave a speech. The architect of terror suddenly became an honored diplomat.

The most famous phrase from his speech was, "Today I have come bearing an olive branch and a freedom-fighter's gun. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat: do not let the olive branch fall from my hand."

Think about what he is saying. He is saying that the world must do what Palestinians want it to do, or else there will be more terror.

It was a threat!

(full article online)

When Arafat threatened the world - and the world applauded ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians want nothing to do with President Trump's plan: they know it will never satisfy their demands. The Palestinians are not opposed to the peace plan because of a dispute over a border or a settlement or a checkpoint or the status of Jerusalem. They are against Trump's plan -- and any other peace initiative -- because the Palestinians have something else in mind.


The two Palestinian parties, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, may disagree on everything -- except the elimination of Israel. The only peace plan acceptable to current Palestinian leaders would be one that facilitated their mission of pursuing jihad against Israel to obliterate it.


If Jared Kushner and Jason Greenblatt wish to learn more about the true ambitions of the Palestinians, they would do well to take in a sermon at a mosque on some Friday or stop into a school in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Perhaps then they would see for themselves that no peace plan in the world can, at the moment, counter the poison that is injected daily into the hearts and minds of the Palestinians and their children.


(full article online)

Palestinians: The Only Acceptable Peace Plan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinians want nothing to do with President Trump's plan: they know it will never satisfy their demands. The Palestinians are not opposed to the peace plan because of a dispute over a border or a settlement or a checkpoint or the status of Jerusalem. They are against Trump's plan -- and any other peace initiative -- because the Palestinians have something else in mind.
> 
> 
> The two Palestinian parties, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, may disagree on everything -- except the elimination of Israel. The only peace plan acceptable to current Palestinian leaders would be one that facilitated their mission of pursuing jihad against Israel to obliterate it.
> 
> 
> If Jared Kushner and Jason Greenblatt wish to learn more about the true ambitions of the Palestinians, they would do well to take in a sermon at a mosque on some Friday or stop into a school in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Perhaps then they would see for themselves that no peace plan in the world can, at the moment, counter the poison that is injected daily into the hearts and minds of the Palestinians and their children.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: The Only Acceptable Peace Plan


I haven't seen the plan, but let me guess.  Israel will control all imports and exports. Israel will control travel and tourism. Israel will control electricity and water. Israel will control economic development. Jerusalem is off the table. The Jordan Valley is off the table. Refugees are off the table.

And if the Palestinians are good little boys and girls they will be allowed to work in foreign (Israeli) owned "industrial zones."

*Watch this space.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I haven't seen the plan,



That certainly presents the obvious opportunity for you to do some preemptive whining.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the plan,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That certainly presents the obvious opportunity for you to do some preemptive whining.
Click to expand...

*Watch this space.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the plan,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That certainly presents the obvious opportunity for you to do some preemptive whining.
Click to expand...

*Trump plan nears completion, satire dies*

The Deal will be delivered by a crack team of presidential advisors whose insight and neutrality guarantees that the US proposal will take into account the grievances and perspectives of everyone concerned.

Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, and a senior White House advisor, has actively helped fund Jewish settlements in occupied territory through his parents’ foundation. He apparently thinks the Obama administration “tried to beat up on Israel and give the Palestinians everything.”

David Friedman, the US ambassador to Israel, has put his mouth where his money is, not just financing settlements but declaring that he saw those as “part of Israel.” Burnishing his credentials further, he also believes Palestinians in Gaza are “basically Egyptians.”

Finally, Jason Greenblatt, the special envoy, has gone one further – probably to the envy of the others – and actually served as an armed guard to one of these settlements.

With such sound counsel, and the issue of Jerusalem already happily resolved, it is hardly surprising that expectations are sky high.

Trump plan nears completion, satire dies


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the plan,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That certainly presents the obvious opportunity for you to do some preemptive whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Trump plan nears completion, satire dies*
> 
> The Deal will be delivered by a crack team of presidential advisors whose insight and neutrality guarantees that the US proposal will take into account the grievances and perspectives of everyone concerned.
> 
> Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, and a senior White House advisor, has actively helped fund Jewish settlements in occupied territory through his parents’ foundation. He apparently thinks the Obama administration “tried to beat up on Israel and give the Palestinians everything.”
> 
> David Friedman, the US ambassador to Israel, has put his mouth where his money is, not just financing settlements but declaring that he saw those as “part of Israel.” Burnishing his credentials further, he also believes Palestinians in Gaza are “basically Egyptians.”
> 
> Finally, Jason Greenblatt, the special envoy, has gone one further – probably to the envy of the others – and actually served as an armed guard to one of these settlements.
> 
> With such sound counsel, and the issue of Jerusalem already happily resolved, it is hardly surprising that expectations are sky high.
> 
> Trump plan nears completion, satire dies
Click to expand...


OK. So what would you like to whine about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the plan,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That certainly presents the obvious opportunity for you to do some preemptive whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Trump plan nears completion, satire dies*
> 
> The Deal will be delivered by a crack team of presidential advisors whose insight and neutrality guarantees that the US proposal will take into account the grievances and perspectives of everyone concerned.
> 
> Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, and a senior White House advisor, has actively helped fund Jewish settlements in occupied territory through his parents’ foundation. He apparently thinks the Obama administration “tried to beat up on Israel and give the Palestinians everything.”
> 
> David Friedman, the US ambassador to Israel, has put his mouth where his money is, not just financing settlements but declaring that he saw those as “part of Israel.” Burnishing his credentials further, he also believes Palestinians in Gaza are “basically Egyptians.”
> 
> Finally, Jason Greenblatt, the special envoy, has gone one further – probably to the envy of the others – and actually served as an armed guard to one of these settlements.
> 
> With such sound counsel, and the issue of Jerusalem already happily resolved, it is hardly surprising that expectations are sky high.
> 
> Trump plan nears completion, satire dies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK. So what would you like to whine about?
Click to expand...

Trump calls this the deal of the century, but it is the same old shit that has always been on the table. Maybe less.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.


----------



## Sixties Fan

It would almost be funny if it wasn't so absurd. The Palestinian Authority, whose leaders pay salaries to imprisoned terrorist murderers and to families of killed terrorists - including suicide bombers - participated in a conference in Paris called "No Money for Terrorism"!

"The State of Palestine participated... in a ministerial conference against terror funding, which was held in the French capital Paris under the headline No Money for Terrorism. Palestine was represented at the conference by [PA] Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki and Head of the [Palestinian] Central Bank Azzam Al-Shawa, accompanied by a Palestinian delegation."
[WAFA, official PA news agency, April 26, 2018]

The PA was invited and included in the conference while the PA actively and openly uses its money and also donor countries' money to pay terrorists, while PA leaders ignore the condemnation by the international community. 

The PA pays monthly salaries to around 6,500 imprisoned terrorists, as well monthly allowances to the families of tens of thousands of killed terrorists - who the PA calls "Martyrs" -  to which the PA allocated over $350 million in its published 2018 budget. Despite international criticism, PA leaders vow to continue to pay these salaries rewarding terror. 

(full article online)

Absurd irony: The PA at “No Money for Terrorism” conference - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.



That's like islamics committing acts of terrorism and then recoiling in shocked surprise when isreal responds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> It would almost be funny if it wasn't so absurd. The Palestinian Authority, whose leaders pay salaries to imprisoned terrorist murderers and to families of killed terrorists - including suicide bombers - participated in a conference in Paris called "No Money for Terrorism"!
> 
> "The State of Palestine participated... in a ministerial conference against terror funding, which was held in the French capital Paris under the headline No Money for Terrorism. Palestine was represented at the conference by [PA] Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki and Head of the [Palestinian] Central Bank Azzam Al-Shawa, accompanied by a Palestinian delegation."
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, April 26, 2018]
> 
> The PA was invited and included in the conference while the PA actively and openly uses its money and also donor countries' money to pay terrorists, while PA leaders ignore the condemnation by the international community.
> 
> The PA pays monthly salaries to around 6,500 imprisoned terrorists, as well monthly allowances to the families of tens of thousands of killed terrorists - who the PA calls "Martyrs" -  to which the PA allocated over $350 million in its published 2018 budget. Despite international criticism, PA leaders vow to continue to pay these salaries rewarding terror.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Absurd irony: The PA at “No Money for Terrorism” conference - PMW Bulletins


No other country gets criticized for supporting its veterans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would almost be funny if it wasn't so absurd. The Palestinian Authority, whose leaders pay salaries to imprisoned terrorist murderers and to families of killed terrorists - including suicide bombers - participated in a conference in Paris called "No Money for Terrorism"!
> 
> "The State of Palestine participated... in a ministerial conference against terror funding, which was held in the French capital Paris under the headline No Money for Terrorism. Palestine was represented at the conference by [PA] Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki and Head of the [Palestinian] Central Bank Azzam Al-Shawa, accompanied by a Palestinian delegation."
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, April 26, 2018]
> 
> The PA was invited and included in the conference while the PA actively and openly uses its money and also donor countries' money to pay terrorists, while PA leaders ignore the condemnation by the international community.
> 
> The PA pays monthly salaries to around 6,500 imprisoned terrorists, as well monthly allowances to the families of tens of thousands of killed terrorists - who the PA calls "Martyrs" -  to which the PA allocated over $350 million in its published 2018 budget. Despite international criticism, PA leaders vow to continue to pay these salaries rewarding terror.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Absurd irony: The PA at “No Money for Terrorism” conference - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> No other country gets criticized for supporting its veterans.
Click to expand...


The "country of Hamas'istan"?

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The most chilling kindergarten graduation you will ever see


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2  
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Yeah, this is "educating the Islamic generations."



Sixties Fan said:


> The most chilling kindergarten graduation you will ever see


*(COMMENT)*

It should not be the US or the Western Nations that are afraid.  When the Arab-Israeli Conflict ends, there will be the single largest tribe of unemployed terrorists in the world.  And which Arab League Nation will they come after first?  My guess is that it will be Jordan...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

COGAT presents digital response for Arab residents


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Yeah, this is "educating the Islamic generations."
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The most chilling kindergarten graduation you will ever see
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It should not be the US or the Western Nations that are afraid.  When the Arab-Israeli Conflict ends, there will be the single largest tribe of unemployed terrorists in the world.  And which Arab League Nation will they come after first?  My guess is that it will be Jordan...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Jordan was actually pressed with violent protests just in the recent month.
Given that Palestinian militias are now taking part in the Assad offensive next to Syria-Israel-Jordan borders, and Hamas training in Lebanon, the uprising could be interpreted in many ways, either coordinated or not.

These terrorists might miss the day that a whole coalition of these Arab countries goes against them on the offensive.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF said 12 rockets were identified as having been launched from the Gaza Strip into Israeli territory. The Iron Dome anti-missile system intercepted at least three of them.

There were no reports of physical injuries or damages.

Meanwhile, the IDF said that an IAF aircraft and IDF tank targeted a vehicle belonging to a Hamas operative heavily involved in launching arson and explosive balloons from the Gaza Strip into Israel.

In addition, two observation posts belonging to the Hamas terror organization were targeted in the northern Gaza Strip.

“The Hamas terror organization will bear the consequences for facilitating terror and instability,” said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.

Earlier, Palestinian Arab media reported that the Israeli Air Force carried out an attack in the Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza.

According to the reports, the attack caused an explosion inside a vehicle.

(full article online)

Rocket barrage on southern Israel, IDF attacks in Gaza


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

While I've made similar comments about the Arab Palestinians being able to accept the consequences of their actions, I'm not sure that you can find a hand full of Arab Palestinians that are mature enough to understand that they are actually responsible for the IDF retaliatory and counter-fires they receive.



Sixties Fan said:


> The IDF said 12 rockets were identified as having been launched from the Gaza Strip into Israeli territory. The Iron Dome anti-missile system intercepted at least three of them.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Rocket barrage on southern Israel, IDF attacks in Gaza


*(COMMENT)*

I;m thinking that HAMAS and Islamic Jihad leaders have demonstrated that they are not competent to to do their duty in the maintenance of peace. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> While I've made similar comments about the Arab Palestinians being able to accept the consequences of their actions, I'm not sure that you can find a hand full of Arab Palestinians that are mature enough to understand that they are actually responsible for the IDF retaliatory and counter-fires they receive.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF said 12 rockets were identified as having been launched from the Gaza Strip into Israeli territory. The Iron Dome anti-missile system intercepted at least three of them.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Rocket barrage on southern Israel, IDF attacks in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I;m thinking that HAMAS and Islamic Jihad leaders have demonstrated that they are not competent to to do their duty in the maintenance of peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All one needs to do is read the Hamas Charter to know that peace is the last thing on their mind.


----------



## rylah

"Chida"-Rav Chaim Yosef David Azulay
He was known in his literary name: Chida, born in 1724 in Jerusalem. His father, R. Raphael Yitzchak Zerachia, is the fourth generation of Rabbi Avraham Azulai, the Kabbalist, who immigrated to Israel from Fes to Eretz Israel and died in Hebron in the year 544. In his youth, he studied Torah at Yeshivat Yifar Haneimim at Rabbi Yona Navon's Yeshiva Knesset Yisrael, founded by Rabbi Hayyim Ben Attar in 1882 in Jerusalem, and even managed to study with the Rabbi for a short time. He also mentions in his books his teacher, Rabbi Yitzchak HaCohen.

He was still at the beginning of his life, at the age of 16 years, and had already begun to write the book "The Youth Davar", which served as the basis for his great book "Shem ha-Gadolim". This book was awoken to composition because he saw in some of the greatest authors' books errors and omissions because they ignored the order of generations and the nature of the books of the Rishonim. In the same period, he also wrote his books Sha'ar Yosef (on Tractate Horayot) and "Acharei Tira" and more.







*In 1863, he was sent by the community in Hebron as an emissary to Europe, and on this five-year journey, was introduced to great Torah scholars and heads of the community in Europe. He negotiated with them in Halakhah and succeeded in influencing many of them to work for the Land of Israel.*

From Egypt he traveled to Italy, moved to Germany, Holland, England, Paris and South France. He read the memoir he wrote during his journeys called "A Good Circuit". The book contains interesting details about the state of the communities in which it was passed, and its importance to the history of the Jewish communities in these places during the period of its journey, and it also contains interesting information about the history of literature.

During his stay in Italy, he did not stop working for the Land of Israel, and in his small books, which he wrote for the masses, he often spoke of the Land of Israel and its holiness. In his famous prayer which is customary to this day. He writes excited words about the lowness of the exile:_ "And see that the Gentile nation ... and their exile and poverty and humiliation ... For several hundred years are calling on your behalf ... And will be filled with mercy to all our brethren in the House of Israel common in the four corners of the earth "_.It is not clear why he did not return to Eretz Israel at the end of his life, and he always aspires to this. In his letters to his son, Rabbi Raphael Yeshaya, he even sets dates for the time of his aliyah, but various impediments, like his weak health and Napoleon's war caused the trip to be postponed. He died in Livorno on the 11th of Adar 1806 and in many cities in Israel eulogized him and lamented him.






He was one of the greatest authors to arise in Israel after the exile of Spain. He wrote a lot and composed more than eighty books. His most important book of science is the "Name of the Greats", which is unparalleled in importance to the history of the Sages and their books. The book is divided into two parts: "The Writers System" and "The Book System". It includes more than a thousand and three hundred sages from the time of Rabbenu Soverei and Geonim until the time of the author, and more than a thousand Hebrew books, including many manuscripts. The value of the book is as long as it is at the time of its connection, because several important things are only learned from this book. His pure scientific method and his developed sense of criticism came to be well expressed in this book. He was the first to distinguish between things attributed to the author and not to him. His notes, which are indeed very short, are astonishing in their ability to write and define them. 
He had three sons and two daughters.

Encyclopedia of Founders and Builders of Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

So the absence of Kushner's saying certain words is what proves to J-Street that the peace plan is worthless?

J-Street, supposedly pro-peace, is pushing for a peace plan that has failed in 2000, 2001, 2008 and 2013. The not-yet-released deal is already, according to reports, gaining support in Jordan, Egypt, and most Gulf countries - more enthusiasm from Arabs than for anything Obama ever said.

No Arab state would accept a peace plan where the Palestinians don't end up with a state of some type. Yet they are willing to be more flexible in search of peace than J-Street.

Think about that for a minute.

(full article online)

Fatah and J-Street vocally oppose peace plan they have not seen ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Authorities say they seized NIS 43,000 ($11,850) in cash that had been given to the family of Alaa Abu Dheim by the Hamas terror group, as part of stipends paid to relatives of terrorists, according to Hebrew media reports.

(full article online)

Police seize thousands from family of Mercaz Harav attacker


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Wow!  But, if it was only true...



Sixties Fan said:


> So the absence of Kushner's saying certain words is what proves to J-Street that the peace plan is worthless?
> 
> J-Street, supposedly pro-peace, is pushing for a peace plan that has failed in 2000, 2001, 2008 and 2013. The not-yet-released deal is already, according to reports, gaining support in Jordan, Egypt, and most Gulf countries - more enthusiasm from Arabs than for anything Obama ever said.
> 
> No Arab state would accept a peace plan where the Palestinians don't end up with a state of some type. Yet they are willing to be more flexible in search of peace than J-Street.
> 
> Think about that for a minute.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah and J-Street vocally oppose peace plan they have not seen ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

While "Fatah" has been severely weakened over the last decade, it still has some influence relative to the Ramallah Government.  Whereas, J-Street_ (pro-PA) _has only marginal _(if really any at all)_ influence over Washington _(Remember that "J" Street does NOT exist in Washington)_.

Having said that, there is a sound and valid question now → as to:  Why does is sound suspicious that "Fatah and J-Street" _( or any other political influence)_ will not lend their support and approval to a plan → sight unseen?  _(The Blank Check Dilemma --- Who do YOU trust?)_.  

*The Elder* is near-always factually correct, but I'm not sure where this article leads me.  And I'm a bit confused as to the implication.  And of course Jordan, Egypt, and most Gulf countries --- would never agree or support a cookie recipe unless they have verified the contents through diplomatic channels. 
--------------------------------------
*(OFF-TOPIC)*

Have you ever read the FAQs for _*The *__*Elder*_. It's a riot!​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Wow!  But, if it was only true...
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the absence of Kushner's saying certain words is what proves to J-Street that the peace plan is worthless?
> 
> J-Street, supposedly pro-peace, is pushing for a peace plan that has failed in 2000, 2001, 2008 and 2013. The not-yet-released deal is already, according to reports, gaining support in Jordan, Egypt, and most Gulf countries - more enthusiasm from Arabs than for anything Obama ever said.
> 
> No Arab state would accept a peace plan where the Palestinians don't end up with a state of some type. Yet they are willing to be more flexible in search of peace than J-Street.
> 
> Think about that for a minute.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah and J-Street vocally oppose peace plan they have not seen ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While "Fatah" has been severely weakened over the last decade, it still has some influence relative to the Ramallah Government.  Whereas, J-Street_ (pro-PA) _has only marginal _(if really any at all)_ influence over Washington _(Remember that "J" Street does NOT exist in Washington)_.
> 
> Having said that, there is a sound and valid question now → as to:  Why does is sound suspicious that "Fatah and J-Street" _( or any other political influence)_ will not lend their support and approval to a plan → sight unseen?  _(The Blank Check Dilemma --- Who do YOU trust?)_.
> 
> *The Elder* is near-always factually correct, but I'm not sure where this article leads me.  And I'm a bit confused as to the implication.  And of course Jordan, Egypt, and most Gulf countries --- would never agree or support a cookie recipe unless they have verified the contents through diplomatic channels.
> --------------------------------------
> *(OFF-TOPIC)*
> 
> Have you ever read the FAQs for _*The Elder*_. It's a riot!​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Rocco,

J Street likes to feel important.  And Fatah, Abbas, etc, would never accept any Peace plan with Israel, as they have already refused many before.

The Palestinians leaders will always dream of defeating the Jews, as Mohammad did at Khaybar.  All they believe they need is time to do so, as they make Israel leave Gaza.

Good plan, as the previous ones, or any other one, will never be accepted by Fatah, or any other Palestinian leader.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas terrorists launched between 13 and 17 rockets at communities in southern Israel early Wednesday morning, bringing a response from the IDF.

(full article online)

Hamas launches over a dozen rockets at Israel, IDF strikes back


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is the mentality and hatred of Jews  Islam and the PA keep creating.  Destroy a Jewish life and a Muslim one as well ]

Investigation: Terrorist who stabbed girl in Afula stopped only after he thought he had caused her death. Indictment filed.

In the interrogation, Shinawi said the background for his act was a security check his mother underwent by kippah-wearing policeman at the Temple Mount area's entrance during Ramadan in 2017. He claims that since then his hatred of religious Jews has increased.

(full article online)

Terrorist spotted 'settler,' stabbed her nine times and fled


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yet the motive still exists, in spades, as even a cursory glance at PMW’s latest press releases show. Two days before the organization issued its release about National Reading Day, it announced that the PA had named a plaza after Maher Younes, an Israeli Arab who kidnapped and murdered an IDF soldier in 1980. And four days before that, it issued a press release about a new game show on official PA television whose host opened it by praising “our heroic martyrs who water the land of Palestine with their blood every day.”

As anyone familiar with Palestinian language-laundering knows, “martyrs” are terrorists who kill Israelis. This was made explicit in a music videobroadcast last December on a television station run by PA President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party, in which the lyrics glorifying “martyrdom” were accompanied by pictures of suicide bombers.

This ongoing glorification of terrorists hasn’t made much of a dent in the Western dogma that Palestinian terror is actually driven by “legitimate grievances” and/or “poverty and distress.” Hence, many Westerners still deem PA incitement a trivial issue undeserving of attention, and Western countries still lavish aid on the PA without insisting on an end to such incitement.

This is clearly counterproductive for the West’s oft-proclaimed desire that Israel withdraw from the West Bank. As long as the PA continues urging its people to slaughter Israelis on a daily basis, such a withdrawal would be completely untenable. Were Israel to remove its soldiers, it would instantly be back in the situation of the second intifada–in which Palestinians had not just motive but also means and opportunity, and used it to slaughter over 1,000 Israelis, most of them civilians.

Yet it also turns out, and not for the first time, that by treating Palestinian terror as a unique and somehow “legitimate” form of terror, other countries harm themselves as well as Israel, because they deny themselves the chance to learn lessons that could save lives back home. As the _Times_reported, investigators now consider school shootings “the American equivalent of suicide bombings.” And, if so, as Berko’s study makes clear, logical tactics to combat them might include denying the shooters the media attention they crave and closer monitoring of those dark corners of the web where such shootings are glorified (and, yes, Israel’s experience also obviously shows that making it harder for killers to get guns would be a third).

(full article online)

Love of the Land: The Obvious Link: What School Shootings and Palestinian Terror Have in Common - by Evelyn Gordon


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 24-Jun-18: Chilling: In boasting of those she killed, the fugitive terrorist can barely control her excitement


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

A sanity check on real refugees vs. fake refugees (poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Ami Horowitz Speaks With Senior Hamas Leader In Wild Interview


----------



## Sixties Fan

It starts off with two shots of the terror army sort-of marching.

But it didn't look like there were too many people there, so the videographer took the same footage, and created a mirror image to make it look like there twice the number of fighters!











And then back to the first! Speeding them up so they look like Keystone Kops!

The entire video is of boring scenes of the terrorists shooting at things and setting up an RPG. But the music and third-rate editing try to make them look somewhat threatening.

(full article online)

Terror group DFLP tries to stay relevant with a hilariously bad video ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The campaign's organizers also said that the first step in their propaganda activities saw great success both locally and internationally, as well as on social media. According to them, it is obvious that "all of the nations tend to [support] our nation's rights."

The PA opposition to Trump's plan focuses on the fact that Jerusalem and the issue of PA "refugees" are no longer on the table. It also takes issue with the fact that the plan sees solving Gaza's problems as a humanitarian issue.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority determined to foil peace plan


----------



## Sixties Fan

Op-ed: The more the international community invested in the refugees of Palestine, and it invested in them more than it invested in any other refugee in the world, the bigger the problem became. In order to do some good to the Middle East, and in order to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there is a need to drain the conflict’s biggest swamp—the refugee problem.

(full article online)

The Palestinian paradox: 70 years of perpetuating refugeeism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hatuqa seems to favor a new, unified, and more militant Palestinian leadership that can stand up to Israel, ignoring her own points that the Arab world is no longer behind them in any way close to how things were in the past.

And the main point of the slowly emerging "deal of the century" is indeed to throw the Palestinians under the bus, as the FP headline says Saudi Arabia is doing.

The reason is simple - simpler than the wishful thinking that Hatuqa has for a strong, resistant Palestinian leadership.

Up until now, the peace process has had one major, unfixable flaw: that the desire for peace in the West was stronger than anything else, and the world was willing to do anything to get the Palestinians to say "yes." As a result, the Palestinian leadership has had zero incentive to compromise for peace, because the pressure was all on Israel.

The PLO's veto power - backed by the perceived support of their Arab brethren, the seeming unified threat of the Arab street, and the backing of the EU and President Obama of always pressuring Israel - is what doomed peace. Compromise was unthinkable. Preparing the Palestinian Arabs for peace was never done. Because, as Abbas said in 2009, all they had to do was wait - things were fine in Palestinians' day to day life.

(full article online)

Why it is right to throw the Palestinians under the bus ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Releasing murderers is far more important than the needs of those Arabs under the Hamas government.  After all, the last time prisoners were released, many more Jewish lives were lost.  A win....win.... ]

Hamas has rejected the two first deals on the grounds that it is only willing to discuss the release of prisoners as part of a prisoner swap deal with Israel. 

The terrorist organization also rejected a third proposal put forth by United Nations Special Envoy Nikolay Mladenov, by which Hamas will end its hostilities against Israel, in return for fuel shipments to Gaza alongside the opening of the border crossings. 

According to the report, Hamas called all three proposals ‘incomplete’, adding that it is unwilling to discuss its weaponry unless Israel lifts the security blockade on Gaza.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...ing-hundreds-of-jailed-terrorists/2018/07/01/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hatuqa seems to favor a new, unified, and more militant Palestinian leadership that can stand up to Israel, ignoring her own points that the Arab world is no longer behind them in any way close to how things were in the past.
> 
> And the main point of the slowly emerging "deal of the century" is indeed to throw the Palestinians under the bus, as the FP headline says Saudi Arabia is doing.
> 
> The reason is simple - simpler than the wishful thinking that Hatuqa has for a strong, resistant Palestinian leadership.
> 
> Up until now, the peace process has had one major, unfixable flaw: that the desire for peace in the West was stronger than anything else, and the world was willing to do anything to get the Palestinians to say "yes." As a result, the Palestinian leadership has had zero incentive to compromise for peace, because the pressure was all on Israel.
> 
> The PLO's veto power - backed by the perceived support of their Arab brethren, the seeming unified threat of the Arab street, and the backing of the EU and President Obama of always pressuring Israel - is what doomed peace. Compromise was unthinkable. Preparing the Palestinian Arabs for peace was never done. Because, as Abbas said in 2009, all they had to do was wait - things were fine in Palestinians' day to day life.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why it is right to throw the Palestinians under the bus ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Anybody have any details on this so called deal of the century yet?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatuqa seems to favor a new, unified, and more militant Palestinian leadership that can stand up to Israel, ignoring her own points that the Arab world is no longer behind them in any way close to how things were in the past.
> 
> And the main point of the slowly emerging "deal of the century" is indeed to throw the Palestinians under the bus, as the FP headline says Saudi Arabia is doing.
> 
> The reason is simple - simpler than the wishful thinking that Hatuqa has for a strong, resistant Palestinian leadership.
> 
> Up until now, the peace process has had one major, unfixable flaw: that the desire for peace in the West was stronger than anything else, and the world was willing to do anything to get the Palestinians to say "yes." As a result, the Palestinian leadership has had zero incentive to compromise for peace, because the pressure was all on Israel.
> 
> The PLO's veto power - backed by the perceived support of their Arab brethren, the seeming unified threat of the Arab street, and the backing of the EU and President Obama of always pressuring Israel - is what doomed peace. Compromise was unthinkable. Preparing the Palestinian Arabs for peace was never done. Because, as Abbas said in 2009, all they had to do was wait - things were fine in Palestinians' day to day life.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why it is right to throw the Palestinians under the bus ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody have any details on this so called deal of the century yet?
Click to expand...

It is everything the Arab Muslim Palestinians will never agree to, especially when they have been offered much better before, including "East Jerusalem" as their capital.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorist family with the highest PA paid salary about to get a raise - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatuqa seems to favor a new, unified, and more militant Palestinian leadership that can stand up to Israel, ignoring her own points that the Arab world is no longer behind them in any way close to how things were in the past.
> 
> And the main point of the slowly emerging "deal of the century" is indeed to throw the Palestinians under the bus, as the FP headline says Saudi Arabia is doing.
> 
> The reason is simple - simpler than the wishful thinking that Hatuqa has for a strong, resistant Palestinian leadership.
> 
> Up until now, the peace process has had one major, unfixable flaw: that the desire for peace in the West was stronger than anything else, and the world was willing to do anything to get the Palestinians to say "yes." As a result, the Palestinian leadership has had zero incentive to compromise for peace, because the pressure was all on Israel.
> 
> The PLO's veto power - backed by the perceived support of their Arab brethren, the seeming unified threat of the Arab street, and the backing of the EU and President Obama of always pressuring Israel - is what doomed peace. Compromise was unthinkable. Preparing the Palestinian Arabs for peace was never done. Because, as Abbas said in 2009, all they had to do was wait - things were fine in Palestinians' day to day life.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why it is right to throw the Palestinians under the bus ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody have any details on this so called deal of the century yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is everything the Arab Muslim Palestinians will never agree to, especially when they have been offered much better before, including "East Jerusalem" as their capital.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatuqa seems to favor a new, unified, and more militant Palestinian leadership that can stand up to Israel, ignoring her own points that the Arab world is no longer behind them in any way close to how things were in the past.
> 
> And the main point of the slowly emerging "deal of the century" is indeed to throw the Palestinians under the bus, as the FP headline says Saudi Arabia is doing.
> 
> The reason is simple - simpler than the wishful thinking that Hatuqa has for a strong, resistant Palestinian leadership.
> 
> Up until now, the peace process has had one major, unfixable flaw: that the desire for peace in the West was stronger than anything else, and the world was willing to do anything to get the Palestinians to say "yes." As a result, the Palestinian leadership has had zero incentive to compromise for peace, because the pressure was all on Israel.
> 
> The PLO's veto power - backed by the perceived support of their Arab brethren, the seeming unified threat of the Arab street, and the backing of the EU and President Obama of always pressuring Israel - is what doomed peace. Compromise was unthinkable. Preparing the Palestinian Arabs for peace was never done. Because, as Abbas said in 2009, all they had to do was wait - things were fine in Palestinians' day to day life.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why it is right to throw the Palestinians under the bus ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody have any details on this so called deal of the century yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is everything the Arab Muslim Palestinians will never agree to, especially when they have been offered much better before, including "East Jerusalem" as their capital.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...

It is called knowledge of what they have been offered and what they will only, ever accept.

You can put your duck back in the pond, now.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Here we go again  !!!!    Another Israeli "Declaration of War" against the Palestinians .  Erekart loves to forget that the Arab Muslims declared war against the Jews in 1920 and especially literally ........in 1948 when 5 Arab Armies invaded the new State of Israel .   
Sigh......nothing changes...... 

And do remind us....the PA only exists because of the Oslo Accords.   The Accords the Arabs love to forget even exist ]

Top Palestinian Authority officials on Tuesday slammed a new Israeli law that will deduct funds to the Ramallah government equivalent to the amount the PA pays out to convicted terrorists and the families of Palestinians killed while carrying out attacks.

Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Palestine Liberation Organization, said the move threatened the existence of the cash-strapped Palestinian Authority.

PA: Israeli law withholding funds over terrorist stipends ‘a declaration of war’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Assad’s planes are bombing Palestinian homes and killing the civilians, yet Hamas calls the Syrian dictator a guardian of Palestinian rights!

Kheir Allah stated that Haniyeh’s silence about the deaths, injuries, and homelessness "_revealed that Hamas does not care at all about the rights of Palestinians.”_

He went on to question, _“If Hamas is not bothered by the condition of Palestinian refugees abroad, why should it care about those living in the Gaza Strip? Indeed, since Hamas took over Gaza a decade ago, it has done nothing to improve the living conditions of the population it controls. The only thing the people of Gaza have experienced under Hamas rule is increased misery and isolation.”_

The surprising revelation was that this article did not appear in a pro-Israel Western newspaper, but in the London edition of _Al-Arab_ on June 23.

When you see the Arab media exposing painful truths about the oppression of the Palestinian people by their own leadership and the total disregard of their people living elsewhere in the violent Arab world this really is newsworthy, but it is happening more often in recent weeks.

Al-Arab concluded its piece by warning Haniyeh that he is paying the price for aligning itself with _“the worst regimes in the region that have brought death and destruction upon the people of Palestine.”_

Slowly, but surely, the Arab world is beginning to open up and express themselves truthfully about the conflicted and divided Palestinian political leadership.

(full article online)

The Arab world owns up to Palestinian violence and rejectionism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Several Palestinians said trapped in Gaza tunnel demolished by Egypt


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Adalah’s list is an exercise in cultural and political appropriation*
From the outset, Adalah claim that all ‘Arab citizens of Israel’ are ‘Palestinian’ and want to be identified as such.  When a UN report described these people as ‘Arab Israelis’, the Adalah response was swift. They are ‘Palestinians’.

The discriminatory laws list already treats the Arab citizens as if they have no agency and are all terrorists. With this strike, Adalah deny the rights of many Arab citizens of Israel who do not see the situation through the same ideological lens as the Adalah lawyers. Everyone is aware that many Arab citizens identify as Israeli. Why do Adalah deny their voice and falsely speak in their name? Further they disgracefully trample on the identity of those like the Negev Bedouin who are most certainly not ‘Palestinians’. All for their own political purpose.

*Adalah’s discriminatory laws list is a scam*
During this research I divided the laws inside the discriminatory database into categories. Over 50% of them I labelled as ‘absurd’. Thirty-six laws that would leave most right-minded people scratching their heads and wondering just what the problem is. Seriously, some of the laws listed are beyond belief. This was the final breakdown:

(full article online)

The Adalah scam. The farce of the 'discriminatory laws database'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The REAL reason "Palestinians" don't have their own state


----------



## Sixties Fan

Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?

(full article online)

Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns


----------



## Sixties Fan

*3 Ramallah lynch terrorists *
*who participated in brutal murder
 of 2 Israeli soldiers in 2000 
all honored as “heroic” by PA TV*

*Since their arrest, the PA has paid the 3 terrorists salaries *
*reaching a combined total of 
2,023,600 shekels ($583,606)*



by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

In October 2000, two Israeli reserve soldiers, Vadim Nurzhitz and Yossi Avrahami, accidentally entered Ramallah. They were lynched by a Palestinian mob who brutally murdered them and mutilated their bodies. Many remember the following photo of one of the Palestinian murderers joyously displaying his bloody hands to the frenzied Palestinian mob. 

(full article online)

Terrorists who participated in brutal murder of Israeli soldiers in 2000 honored as “heroic” by PA TV - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns


PA security forces are Israeli proxy forces. Protecting Palestinians is not their job.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *3 Ramallah lynch terrorists
> who participated in brutal murder
> of 2 Israeli soldiers in 2000
> all honored as “heroic” by PA TV*
> 
> *Since their arrest, the PA has paid the 3 terrorists salaries
> reaching a combined total of
> 2,023,600 shekels ($583,606)*
> 
> 
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> In October 2000, two Israeli reserve soldiers, Vadim Nurzhitz and Yossi Avrahami, accidentally entered Ramallah. They were lynched by a Palestinian mob who brutally murdered them and mutilated their bodies. Many remember the following photo of one of the Palestinian murderers joyously displaying his bloody hands to the frenzied Palestinian mob.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terrorists who participated in brutal murder of Israeli soldiers in 2000 honored as “heroic” by PA TV - PMW Bulletins


Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. What dumbfuck wrote this article.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatuqa seems to favor a new, unified, and more militant Palestinian leadership that can stand up to Israel, ignoring her own points that the Arab world is no longer behind them in any way close to how things were in the past.
> 
> And the main point of the slowly emerging "deal of the century" is indeed to throw the Palestinians under the bus, as the FP headline says Saudi Arabia is doing.
> 
> The reason is simple - simpler than the wishful thinking that Hatuqa has for a strong, resistant Palestinian leadership.
> 
> Up until now, the peace process has had one major, unfixable flaw: that the desire for peace in the West was stronger than anything else, and the world was willing to do anything to get the Palestinians to say "yes." As a result, the Palestinian leadership has had zero incentive to compromise for peace, because the pressure was all on Israel.
> 
> The PLO's veto power - backed by the perceived support of their Arab brethren, the seeming unified threat of the Arab street, and the backing of the EU and President Obama of always pressuring Israel - is what doomed peace. Compromise was unthinkable. Preparing the Palestinian Arabs for peace was never done. Because, as Abbas said in 2009, all they had to do was wait - things were fine in Palestinians' day to day life.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why it is right to throw the Palestinians under the bus ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody have any details on this so called deal of the century yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is everything the Arab Muslim Palestinians will never agree to, especially when they have been offered much better before, including "East Jerusalem" as their capital.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is called knowledge of what they have been offered and what they will only, ever accept.
> 
> You can put your duck back in the pond, now.
Click to expand...

You're a god damn racist! And a liar! 

*propaganda sirens


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns


How do the Israeli troops treat arab women?
Is this here ------- peace? Does it look like peace?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns
> 
> 
> 
> PA security forces are Israeli proxy forces. Protecting Palestinians is not their job.
Click to expand...


Your loopy conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *3 Ramallah lynch terrorists
> who participated in brutal murder
> of 2 Israeli soldiers in 2000
> all honored as “heroic” by PA TV*
> 
> *Since their arrest, the PA has paid the 3 terrorists salaries
> reaching a combined total of
> 2,023,600 shekels ($583,606)*
> 
> 
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> In October 2000, two Israeli reserve soldiers, Vadim Nurzhitz and Yossi Avrahami, accidentally entered Ramallah. They were lynched by a Palestinian mob who brutally murdered them and mutilated their bodies. Many remember the following photo of one of the Palestinian murderers joyously displaying his bloody hands to the frenzied Palestinian mob.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terrorists who participated in brutal murder of Israeli soldiers in 2000 honored as “heroic” by PA TV - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. What dumbfuck wrote this article.
Click to expand...


Let’s propose that Islamic terrorist attacks on foreign troops is an act of war. 

Acts of war carry consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns
> 
> 
> 
> How do the Israeli troops treat arab women?
> Is this here ------- peace? Does it look like peace?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns
> 
> 
> 
> How do the Israeli troops treat arab women?
> Is this here ------- peace? Does it look like peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Too short, edited as always, and from the tear gas, it is clear that the whole Palestinian crowd had gotten violent.

Since when Muslim women care NOT to be violent against Jews, any Jews.......for Allah ?

Wafa Idris - Wikipedia
--------------
*“Women are not supposed to blow themselves up... They are supposed to stay at home and give birth – 'preferably to boys' – and care for their families."*

(full article online)

Women and Jihad: The motivation of female suicide bombers
------------------
Female Suicide Bombers: A Global Trend on JSTOR
----------------
Yet, not all Muslim women (or men for that matter) - fortunately - but quite a few readily embrace the violent inclination and are willing to actually explode themselves up.

(full article online)

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpo...women suicide bombers - by maria alvanou.aspx
----------------

[ Yes, gratefully, not all Muslim women or men are willing to become murderers or "heroes" for the cause of killing Jews and destroying Israel ]


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns
> 
> 
> 
> How do the Israeli troops treat arab women?
> Is this here ------- peace? Does it look like peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody who says that a Palestinian state should be set up next to Israel needs to answer these questions: Do you really want to establish another dictatorship where women will be savagely mistreated? And how likely is it that such a barbaric regime will live in peace with its neighbors?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians assault women journalists … and the world yawns
> 
> 
> 
> How do the Israeli troops treat arab women?
> Is this here ------- peace? Does it look like peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Too short, edited as always, and from the tear gas, it is clear that the whole Palestinian crowd had gotten violent.
> 
> Since when Muslim women care NOT to be violent against Jews, any Jews.......for Allah ?
> 
> Wafa Idris - Wikipedia
> --------------
> *“Women are not supposed to blow themselves up... They are supposed to stay at home and give birth – 'preferably to boys' – and care for their families."*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Women and Jihad: The motivation of female suicide bombers
> ------------------
> Female Suicide Bombers: A Global Trend on JSTOR
> ----------------
> Yet, not all Muslim women (or men for that matter) - fortunately - but quite a few readily embrace the violent inclination and are willing to actually explode themselves up.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/palestinian/pages/palestinian women suicide bombers - by maria alvanou.aspx
> ----------------
> 
> [ Yes, gratefully, not all Muslim women or men are willing to become murderers or "heroes" for the cause of killing Jews and destroying Israel ]
Click to expand...

Are you TRYING to make sense?

Eh. They don't explode themselves to kill jews or destroy Israel; they do it for the freedom and well being of their own people.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *3 Ramallah lynch terrorists
> who participated in brutal murder
> of 2 Israeli soldiers in 2000
> all honored as “heroic” by PA TV*
> 
> *Since their arrest, the PA has paid the 3 terrorists salaries
> reaching a combined total of
> 2,023,600 shekels ($583,606)*
> 
> 
> 
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> In October 2000, two Israeli reserve soldiers, Vadim Nurzhitz and Yossi Avrahami, accidentally entered Ramallah. They were lynched by a Palestinian mob who brutally murdered them and mutilated their bodies. Many remember the following photo of one of the Palestinian murderers joyously displaying his bloody hands to the frenzied Palestinian mob.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terrorists who participated in brutal murder of Israeli soldiers in 2000 honored as “heroic” by PA TV - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. What dumbfuck wrote this article.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s propose that Islamic terrorist attacks on foreign troops is an act of war.
> 
> Acts of war carry consequences.
Click to expand...

Me spitting on your shoes would be an act of war but if you jacked at me about it I might still punch you in the face - i. E. There may be consequences but that not make it right.

But no. It isn't an act of war. The israelis are terrorising the palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is Fatima Bernawi, one of the earliest female terrorists.

In October 1967 she placed a bomb at the Zion Cinema in (west) Jerusalem. The bomb didn't explode. Israeli police arrested her and she claims, ludicrously, that she was arrested because of her skin color - not because she placed a bomb in a movie theatre.


Though the bombing was a failure, Bernawi insisted it was successful, saying, "This is not a failure, because it generated fear throughout the world. Every woman who carries a bag needs to be checked before she enters the supermarket, any place, cinemas and pharmacies."

This is the very definition of terror - instilling fear for political purposes. Bernawi is a true pioneer of terror, and therefore she must be honored by the Palestinians whose entire sense of self-worth is based on how successful they are in attacking Israeli Jews.

(full article online)

Diversity, Palestinian style: Fatah honors a black woman terrorist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not only is there a record of Erekat saying that 500 were massacred in Jenin, but there’s even a record of him admitting he said it. “I said 500,” Erekat acknowledged after being confronted during a May 5 interviewwith Blitzer:

BLITZER: Mr. Erakat, you probably know that you’ve come under some widespread criticism here in the United States for initially charging that the Israelis were engaged in a massacre in Jenin. Perhaps 500 Palestinians murdered in that massacre, you suggested. But now all of the evidence suggests that perhaps 53 or 56 Palestinians died in that fighting in Jenin.

Do you want to use this opportunity to give us your assessment now, based on what you know, how many Palestinians were killed? Condoleezza Rice, only a few minutes ago on this program, said she didn’t see any evidence of a so-called massacre.

ERAKAT: It depends — *first of all, on the number 500, I said 500* but I said at the same time I cannot confirm them because I didn’t have the chance to go and pull the rubble out and to clean the rubble out, and I don’t know exactly, and I said I cannot confirm it.
----

Erekat wasn’t the only one peddling the Jenin massacre myth. Hasan Abdel Rahman, the Palestinian Authority’s representative to the United States, told CNN on April 12 that “everyone in this world knows that Israel committed a massacre in Jenin in the last week, 400 to 500 people, mostly civilians, that were killed by the Israeli army.” And AFP’s Peter Mackler reported on April 14, “Palestinian information minister Yasser Abed Rabbo charged Friday that Israeli bulldozers had dug mass graves for around 500 Palestinians he said had been killed there, half of them women and children, he said.”

(full article online)

A Look Back: Electronic Intifada’s Falsehoods About Erekat’s Jenin Fictions | CAMERA


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Eh. They don't explode themselves to kill jews or destroy Israel; they do it for the freedom and well being of their own people.



The Palestinian mentality is strong in this one.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> This is Fatima Bernawi, one of the earliest female terrorists.
> 
> In October 1967 she placed a bomb at the Zion Cinema in (west) Jerusalem. The bomb didn't explode. Israeli police arrested her and she claims, ludicrously, that she was arrested because of her skin color - not because she placed a bomb in a movie theatre.
> 
> 
> Though the bombing was a failure, Bernawi insisted it was successful, saying, "This is not a failure, because it generated fear throughout the world. Every woman who carries a bag needs to be checked before she enters the supermarket, any place, cinemas and pharmacies."
> 
> This is the very definition of terror - instilling fear for political purposes. Bernawi is a true pioneer of terror, and therefore she must be honored by the Palestinians whose entire sense of self-worth is based on how successful they are in attacking Israeli Jews.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Diversity, Palestinian style: Fatah honors a black woman terrorist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Are you aware that this thread is about palestinians - not the glory of the jews. In any case hmmm... how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jibril Rajoub: The Most Powerful Man in Palestinian Sports


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Ecocertifmrl, et al,

Now you are just being ridiculous.  You know as well as I know that a terrorist bombing is a criminal act.



Ecocertifmrl said:


> The israelis are terrorising the palestinians.


*(THE INTERNATIONAL LAW)*

✪  Article 2  *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing*

1.  Any person commits an offense within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully
and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in,
into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system
or an infrastructure facility:

a.  With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or

b.  With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or are likely to result in a major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offense if that person attempts to commit an offense as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.

3.  Any person also commits an offense if that person:

a.  Participates as an accomplice in an offense as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or

b.  Organizes or directs others to commit an offense as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or

c.  In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned​
*(THE FIRST PILLAR  TO THE INTERNATIONAL PRINCIPLE)*

This is the first pillar of the *United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*.

First:  the critical links between development and security.  *Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.*  At the same time, we must remove the conditions that feed the problem.  Terrorism festers where conflicts are endemic and where human rights, human dignity, and human life are not protected and impunity prevails.​*(COMMENT)*

For example, the Arab Palestinian that was the Suicide Bomber.   We already determined that the delivery was a violation of the convention.  All this talk about "Freedom Fighting" and other such Arab Palestinian nonsense is just that → nonsense.  The Arab Palestinians have no special right to violate:

In general terms, the Israelis have the responsibility to maintain public order and safety under Article 43 of the Hague Convention.  Violators will be prosecuted under Israeli Law or other actionable system under Article 69 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

HOW, as I said last week, the Arab Palestinians _(and several members of the Arab League)_ have lost their handle on the "Rule of Law."  The mere fact that the Arab Palestinians celebrate the terrorist attacks and pay stipends to the participants, demonstrates just how little regard they have for peace.

The scenario that the Hostile Arab Palestinians carries out an act --- THEN after a retaliatory response, tries to play the innocent victim --- is just one exemplar that should be taken into account.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> ...how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?



Really?  Palestinians PUT BOMBS IN PURSES to blow up innocent people.  Israelis check purses for bombs that hurt innocent people.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Ecocertifmrl, et al,
> 
> Now you are just being ridiculous.  You know as well as I know that a terrorist bombing is a criminal act.
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The israelis are terrorising the palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE INTERNATIONAL LAW)*
> 
> ✪  Article 2  *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing*
> 
> 1.  Any person commits an offense within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully
> and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in,
> into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system
> or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.  With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.  With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or are likely to result in a major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offense if that person attempts to commit an offense as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.
> 
> 3.  Any person also commits an offense if that person:
> 
> a.  Participates as an accomplice in an offense as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> b.  Organizes or directs others to commit an offense as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> c.  In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned​
> *(THE FIRST PILLAR  TO THE INTERNATIONAL PRINCIPLE)*
> 
> This is the first pillar of the *United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*.
> 
> First:  the critical links between development and security.  *Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.*  At the same time, we must remove the conditions that feed the problem.  Terrorism festers where conflicts are endemic and where human rights, human dignity, and human life are not protected and impunity prevails.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> For example, the Arab Palestinian that was the Suicide Bomber.   We already determined that the delivery was a violation of the convention.  All this talk about "Freedom Fighting" and other such Arab Palestinian nonsense is just that → nonsense.  The Arab Palestinians have no special right to violate:
> 
> In general terms, the Israelis have the responsibility to maintain public order and safety under Article 43 of the Hague Convention.  Violators will be prosecuted under Israeli Law or other actionable system under Article 69 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> HOW, as I said last week, the Arab Palestinians _(and several members of the Arab League)_ have lost their handle on the "Rule of Law."  The mere fact that the Arab Palestinians celebrate the terrorist attacks and pay stipends to the participants, demonstrates just how little regard they have for peace.
> 
> The scenario that the Hostile Arab Palestinians carries out an act --- THEN after a retaliatory response, tries to play the innocent victim --- is just one exemplar that should be taken into account.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Lmao. You're full of shit.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Palestinians PUT BOMBS IN PURSES to blow up innocent people.  Israelis check purses for bombs that hurt innocent people.
Click to expand...

Israelis also shoot and knife people to death. They starve people, rob people, humiliate people...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mr. Trump can send the same message by declassifying one document. In 2012 Congress ordered the State Department to disclose how many Palestinians currently served by Unrwa fled the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and how many are merely their descendants. The Obama administration classified the report, citing national security-as if revealing foreign census data were a threat to America..."

(full article online)

Articles - Expose the Palestinian 'Refugee' Scam (Richard Goldberg and Jonathan Schanzer)


----------



## Hollie

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Palestinians PUT BOMBS IN PURSES to blow up innocent people.  Israelis check purses for bombs that hurt innocent people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israelis also shoot and knife people to death. They starve people, rob people, humiliate people...
Click to expand...


You got a problem with that?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Hollie said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Palestinians PUT BOMBS IN PURSES to blow up innocent people.  Israelis check purses for bombs that hurt innocent people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israelis also shoot and knife people to death. They starve people, rob people, humiliate people...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You got a problem with that?
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


>


I think you should take this obsession outside. Once you cease to make coherent argument you have become a fanatic.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should take this obsession outside. Once you cease to make coherent argument you have become a fanatic.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should take this obsession outside. Once you cease to make coherent argument you have become a fanatic.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I mean every word i say.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gosh, how Muslim Arabs love their Nazi friends........but call Israelis "Nazis" and do not want to be friends with them.....at all.
And ON TOP OF IT.......bring up the Inquisition.....which was against the Jews....again......and not the Muslims ]

PA chairman's adviser Mahmoud Al-Habbash says Israel's restrictions on entry to Al-Aqsa Mosque are "Israeli Zionist Inquisition".

(full article online)

Abbas adviser: Israel's methods like those of the Nazis


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Gaza, soccer fans express 100 years of frustration against British for their support for a Jewish state; 'Anyone supporting England is supporting Israel itself,' says one man

(full article online)

Palestinian resentment of UK bubbles over into England-Sweden World Cup support


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Palestinians PUT BOMBS IN PURSES to blow up innocent people.  Israelis check purses for bombs that hurt innocent people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israelis also shoot and knife people to death. They starve people, rob people, humiliate people...
Click to expand...


Oh please.  Unsubstantiated drama and outright lies for the purpose of demonizing Israel.  Stop putting bombs in purses and Israel will stop responding to bombs in purses.  Its really that simple.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> In Gaza, soccer fans express 100 years of frustration against British for their support for a Jewish state; 'Anyone supporting England is supporting Israel itself,' says one man
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian resentment of UK bubbles over into England-Sweden World Cup support



Haha.  Boycott the UK.  While you're at it, why not boycott all 157 nations which have diplomatic ties with Israel?  See how that works for you.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> In Gaza, soccer fans express 100 years of frustration against British for their support for a Jewish state; 'Anyone supporting England is supporting Israel itself,' says one man
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian resentment of UK bubbles over into England-Sweden World Cup support



Oh my. the Brits still can’t find an unequivocal message of “enough is enough” for islam’s eternally aggrieved , always angry, self-hating, self-made victims.

We all need to face the fact that we are at war with a potent and retrograde ideology which compels its believers to minimize the value of life--both theirs and others--this side of heaven. It's an ideology which provides a great incentive for its followers to kill those who don't follow it, especially if there is the perception--real or imagined--of being aggrieved, or even just rebuffed. This is not an enemy which can be appeased, cajoled, placated, or won over.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...how does this terror differ from the one the Israelis practice against the palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Palestinians PUT BOMBS IN PURSES to blow up innocent people.  Israelis check purses for bombs that hurt innocent people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israelis also shoot and knife people to death. They starve people, rob people, humiliate people...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Unsubstantiated drama and outright lies for the purpose of demonizing Israel.  Stop putting bombs in purses and Israel will stop responding to bombs in purses.  Its really that simple.
Click to expand...

No. It isn't.


----------



## Coyote

This thread has become nothing more than a bad the Palestinians thread.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> This thread has become nothing more than a bad the Palestinians thread.


Whenever we do find something the Gaza or the PA population are doing which helps themselves or others, we do post them.

For now, we discuss what comes out of this places, and what Palestinians elsewhere are doing.  Sending kites with incendiaries or bombs into Israel.  Finding tunnels into Israel or Egypt. So on and so forth.

We do not make the reality of Gaza and the PA, and what is happening there.  We merely discuss the news coming from there.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread has become nothing more than a bad the Palestinians thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever we do find something the Gaza or the PA population are doing which helps themselves or others, we do post them.
> 
> For now, we discuss what comes out of this places, and what Palestinians elsewhere are doing.  Sending kites with incendiaries or bombs into Israel.  Finding tunnels into Israel or Egypt. So on and so forth.
> 
> We do not make the reality of Gaza and the PA, and what is happening there.  We merely discuss the news coming from there.
Click to expand...

No.  You pick only the negative news.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Feel free to find and post positive ones.  Anyone should be able to do it, but Tinmore and others do not seem to find any.  Why is that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.

To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).

The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.

Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:

(full article online)

The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).
> 
> The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House


Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).
> 
> The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.
Click to expand...

Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.

When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.

The Children of Israel Live.
And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
Sovereign and FREE.


Shalom Chabibi.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).
> 
> The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.
> 
> When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.
> 
> The Children of Israel Live.
> And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
> Sovereign and FREE.
> 
> 
> Shalom Chabibi.
Click to expand...

Israel started the war. 

And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).
> 
> The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.
> 
> When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.
> 
> The Children of Israel Live.
> And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
> Sovereign and FREE.
> 
> 
> Shalom Chabibi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started the war.
> 
> And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.
Click to expand...

1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.

2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?

3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .

It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).
> 
> The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.
> 
> When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.
> 
> The Children of Israel Live.
> And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
> Sovereign and FREE.
> 
> 
> Shalom Chabibi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started the war.
> 
> And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
Click to expand...

That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western media has often focused on this issue to the detriment of many other conflicts or independence movements throughout the world. The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering the West Bank and Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from the BBC’s coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> To get a glimpse of that you would have to turn instead to this recent Al-Jazeera report from Gaza, showing footage of the bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, the impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), the fancy restaurants, the nice hotels, the crowded food markets, the toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). (This video was translated into English by the excellent Middle East Media Research Institute).
> 
> The West Bank also has good quality shopping malls and other prosperous aspects to it. And while, of course, there are also many poor people in Gaza – just as there are poor people in London, New York, Washington, Paris and Tel Aviv – this prosperity among Palestinians is not just for the wealthy. Much of the population enjoys the benefits of it in one way or other. None of this is new. I have written about it several times before, for example, here in 2009 for the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> Occasionally, other journalists have too. Peter Hitchens, writing from Gaza for the Mail on Sunday in 2010, calls it ‘the world’s most misrepresented location’ and talks of ‘enjoying a rather good café latte in an elegant beachfront café’ and visiting a ‘sparkling new Gaza Mall, and … eat(ing) an excellent beef stroganoff in an elegant restaurant’. Hitchens adds, in reference to the oft stated claim that Gaza is under siege:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The good news about Gaza you won’t hear on the BBC | Coffee House
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.
> 
> When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.
> 
> The Children of Israel Live.
> And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
> Sovereign and FREE.
> 
> 
> Shalom Chabibi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started the war.
> 
> And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
Click to expand...



Nothing like an ill informed nobody.

Keep posting, please.

The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Palestine is not a third world country. The vast majority of poverty is man made. Most of the poverty in Gaza, the West Bank, and inside 48 is due to their homes, farms, factories, and other assets being stolen, bombed, or bulldozed.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.
> 
> When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.
> 
> The Children of Israel Live.
> And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
> Sovereign and FREE.
> 
> 
> Shalom Chabibi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started the war.
> 
> And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
Click to expand...

exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no.....let us not blame the Islamic ideology and mentality which chose war against the Jews in 1920 and more war against Israel since 1948.
> 
> When one chooses WAR instead of peace, on a land which never belonged to you (Muslims, Arabs or "Palestinian Arabs" ) against the indigenous people of the land, be MORE THAN prepared to pay the price as many other loser ideologies have done before Islam.
> 
> The Children of Israel Live.
> And they LIVE on their indigenous ancestral homeland.
> Sovereign and FREE.
> 
> 
> Shalom Chabibi.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel started the war.
> 
> And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct.

The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law. 

Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.


Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel started the war.
> 
> And the arabs have as much right to the land as anyone who was born there.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
Click to expand...

Why would you lie to yourself? 

I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
Click to expand...

I am so enjoying your "Let us delegitimize the Jews and Israel" Hit Parade.

You have not missed one famous song, so far.


Keep at it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.


Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am so enjoying your "Let us delegitimize the Jews and Israel" Hit Parade.
> 
> You have not missed one famous song, so far.
> 
> 
> Keep at it.
Click to expand...

No arguments then..

That didn't last long.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .


Not true, but keep that propaganda coming.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one. 

Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered. 

Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong.  The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 2) Not only they attacked Jews in the Mandate for Palestine since 1920, but their Arab Leader  Al-Husseini went all the way to Iraq in 1940 and caused a riot against the Jews there which killed over 200 Jews and injured thousands of them.
> By all means tell us that it is about the region called Palestine, as Iraq must be part of it, correct?
> 
> 3) The Jews never said that the Arabs or Druze, or Bedouins, or any other people living on the region......did not have the right to continue to live there in peace.
> Which is why the Jews accepted the Partition in 1937 and in 1947.
> The Arab leaders refused to accept it both times, and when Israel finally declared independence .......the Arabs got together and invaded Israel .
> 
> It is all very well documented, no matter what planet you happen to live in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
Click to expand...

Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am so enjoying your "Let us delegitimize the Jews and Israel" Hit Parade.
> 
> You have not missed one famous song, so far.
> 
> 
> Keep at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No arguments then..
> 
> That didn't last long.
Click to expand...

How can anyone argue with the Jew Hatred Hit Parade?

From Tinmore to you it is always the same songs, and then the same ....oh, you have no arguments, you do not know the history, you do not....you do not......

You keep up your Jew Hatred and your Songs from the "I Hate the Jews Hit Parade" and we will keep Israel.

You are just another loser trying to look good.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
Click to expand...

Stern gang


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am so enjoying your "Let us delegitimize the Jews and Israel" Hit Parade.
> 
> You have not missed one famous song, so far.
> 
> 
> Keep at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No arguments then..
> 
> That didn't last long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can anyone argue with the Jew Hatred Hit Parade?
> 
> From Tinmore to you it is always the same songs, and then the same ....oh, you have no arguments, you do not know the history, you do not....you do not......
> 
> You keep up your Jew Hatred and your Songs from the "I Hate the Jews Hit Parade" and we will keep Israel.
> 
> You are just another loser trying to look good.
Click to expand...

I may be a loser but i doubt I rarely commit to the vanity of trying to look good. 

The point is that you stopped arguing but not talking.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
Click to expand...

You are continuing with your dunce ideas?

But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.

They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.

Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.

And still

Am Israel Chai


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.


Load of crap. For Britain, the Mandate was merely a name change. They maintained their military occupation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stern gang
Click to expand...

The Loser's  hit parade song. One of its most famous ones.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
Click to expand...

Again. You completely overlooked the point.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am so enjoying your "Let us delegitimize the Jews and Israel" Hit Parade.
> 
> You have not missed one famous song, so far.
> 
> 
> Keep at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No arguments then..
> 
> That didn't last long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can anyone argue with the Jew Hatred Hit Parade?
> 
> From Tinmore to you it is always the same songs, and then the same ....oh, you have no arguments, you do not know the history, you do not....you do not......
> 
> You keep up your Jew Hatred and your Songs from the "I Hate the Jews Hit Parade" and we will keep Israel.
> 
> You are just another loser trying to look good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I may be a loser but i doubt I rarely commit to the vanity of trying to look good.
> 
> The point is that you stopped arguing but not talking.
Click to expand...

"Vanity of trying to look good"

There's a new song for the Hit Parade.

Thank you.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stern gang
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Loser's  hit parade song. One of its most famous ones.
Click to expand...

Actually it's a jewish terrorist organisation. Admitted by the jews openly even though they say it is "in the past now".


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again. You completely overlooked the point.
Click to expand...

Explain to the dummy what the point was


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again. You completely overlooked the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explain to the dummy what the point was
Click to expand...

That Israel is a Jewish democracy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world can see how Israel has not worked for the past 70 years.   LOL
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, though I don't find their tyranny amusing. An ethnic cleansing is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> The Ethnic cleansing of Jews since 1920 from Gaza (1920), TransJordan (1925), Hebron and Sfad (1929) and all of Judea, Samaria and the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948 has always been a violation of International Law.
> 
> Even worse, the Ethnic Cleaning of most Jews since 1948  (900,000) , by Arabs, from the lands where they lived long before Arabs showed up and invaded  in the now Arab dominated lands of the Middle East and North Africa.
> 
> 
> Do you have any more history lessons to share with us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.


Not true. The Palestinians did not want any religious designations. It was Britain and the Zionists who wanted to separate people by religion.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Wrong. The Arabs started attacking the Jews since 1920, when they found out about the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stern gang
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Loser's  hit parade song. One of its most famous ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it's a jewish terrorist organisation. Admitted by the jews openly even though they say it is "in the past now".
Click to expand...

They were defending what was going to become their legally obtained recreation of their Nation, after being attacked endlessly by the Arabs since 1920 and suffering the absolute dishonor the British showed and going back on their word to recreate a Jewish Sovereign Nation/ Country , as neither the British, nor the French did with the Three other Mandates.

Are you aware that there were three other Mandates out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?

Why was the Jewish sovereign Nation the only one to be dishonored by the British as they did?

So, of course, just as the Americans had to do with the British since before 1776, the Jews responded to what the British were doing and sent them packing back to England.

The Indigenous people of the Land of Israel won, against all odds,  the British and Arabs like it or not after all the violence and betrayal both committed .

Anymore from your Hit Parade, "Louie"  ?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stern gang
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Loser's  hit parade song. One of its most famous ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it's a jewish terrorist organisation. Admitted by the jews openly even though they say it is "in the past now".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were defending what was going to become their legally obtained recreation of their Nation, after being attacked endlessly by the Arabs since 1920 and suffering the absolute dishonor the British showed and going back on their word to recreate a Jewish Sovereign Nation/ Country , as neither the British, nor the French did with the Three other Mandates.
> 
> Are you aware that there were three other Mandates out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Why was the Jewish sovereign Nation the only one to be dishonored by the British as they did?
> 
> So, of course, just as the Americans had to do with the British since before 1776, the Jews responded to what the British were doing and sent them packing back to England.
> 
> The Indigenous people of the Land of Israel won, against all odds,  the British and Arabs like it or not after all the violence and betrayal both committed .
> 
> Anymore from your Hit Parade, "Louie"  ?
Click to expand...

Missed the point; a terrorist organisation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you lie to yourself?
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now. Israel is a democracy for Jews and only for Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again. You completely overlooked the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explain to the dummy what the point was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Israel is a Jewish democracy.
Click to expand...

You are saying that Israel is what ?


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## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, for the Jews Israel is a democracy. For the Palestinians it is a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again. You completely overlooked the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explain to the dummy what the point was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Israel is a Jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are saying that Israel is what ?
Click to expand...

A jewish democracy.


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## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, you're a hoot. The mandate was a political entity that attacked no one.
> 
> Indeed, you islamics have been attacking Israel since 1948 despite the constant, humiliating losses you have suffered.
> 
> Indeed, how does it feel to have lost every gee-had you have waged?
> 
> 
> 
> Stern gang
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Loser's  hit parade song. One of its most famous ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it's a jewish terrorist organisation. Admitted by the jews openly even though they say it is "in the past now".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were defending what was going to become their legally obtained recreation of their Nation, after being attacked endlessly by the Arabs since 1920 and suffering the absolute dishonor the British showed and going back on their word to recreate a Jewish Sovereign Nation/ Country , as neither the British, nor the French did with the Three other Mandates.
> 
> Are you aware that there were three other Mandates out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Why was the Jewish sovereign Nation the only one to be dishonored by the British as they did?
> 
> So, of course, just as the Americans had to do with the British since before 1776, the Jews responded to what the British were doing and sent them packing back to England.
> 
> The Indigenous people of the Land of Israel won, against all odds,  the British and Arabs like it or not after all the violence and betrayal both committed .
> 
> Anymore from your Hit Parade, "Louie"  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Missed the point; a terrorist organisation.
Click to expand...

No, I did not miss the point, at all.

The British were invaders, and so were the Arabs.
Neither wanted the Jewish indigenous people of the Land to achieve sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland.

The terrorists were both the British and the Arabs who had no problems rioting, attacking unarmed Jews, raping, killing, expelling them from 1920 to 1948 from the homes where they had lived to try to turn the whole Mandate into another Arab Muslim sovereign country or part of the Pan Arab world.  A Caliphate.

You have a lot to learn, but Jew hatred does not invite people like yourself to want to educate yourself.


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## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are continuing with your dunce ideas?
> 
> But, indeed, since 1920 the Arab Muslims have been doing their best to turn the whole Ottoman conquered land into a Muslim sovereign countries only.
> 
> They just missed that little bit, 20% of the Jewish Ancient Homeland which is known as Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Too bad, and it will continue to be that way.
> 
> And still
> 
> Am Israel Chai
> 
> 
> 
> Again. You completely overlooked the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explain to the dummy what the point was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Israel is a Jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are saying that Israel is what ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jewish democracy.
Click to expand...

Indeed it is.  Thank you for acknowledging it.


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## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stern gang
> 
> 
> 
> The Loser's  hit parade song. One of its most famous ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it's a jewish terrorist organisation. Admitted by the jews openly even though they say it is "in the past now".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were defending what was going to become their legally obtained recreation of their Nation, after being attacked endlessly by the Arabs since 1920 and suffering the absolute dishonor the British showed and going back on their word to recreate a Jewish Sovereign Nation/ Country , as neither the British, nor the French did with the Three other Mandates.
> 
> Are you aware that there were three other Mandates out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Why was the Jewish sovereign Nation the only one to be dishonored by the British as they did?
> 
> So, of course, just as the Americans had to do with the British since before 1776, the Jews responded to what the British were doing and sent them packing back to England.
> 
> The Indigenous people of the Land of Israel won, against all odds,  the British and Arabs like it or not after all the violence and betrayal both committed .
> 
> Anymore from your Hit Parade, "Louie"  ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Missed the point; a terrorist organisation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I did not miss the point, at all.
> 
> The British were invaders, and so were the Arabs.
> Neither wanted the Jewish indigenous people of the Land to achieve sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland.
> 
> The terrorists were both the British and the Arabs who had no problems rioting, attacking unarmed Jews, raping, killing, expelling them from 1920 to 1948 from the homes where they had lived to try to turn the whole Mandate into another Arab Muslim sovereign country or part of the Pan Arab world.  A Caliphate.
> 
> You have a lot to learn, but Jew hatred does not invite people like yourself to want to educate yourself.
Click to expand...

The point in my words.


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## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again. You completely overlooked the point.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain to the dummy what the point was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Israel is a Jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are saying that Israel is what ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed it is.  Thank you for acknowledging it.
Click to expand...

It is not a compliment.


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## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Explain to the dummy what the point was
> 
> 
> 
> That Israel is a Jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are saying that Israel is what ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed it is.  Thank you for acknowledging it.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a compliment.
Click to expand...

Have a nice day  "Louie"


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
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> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That Israel is a Jewish democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> You are saying that Israel is what ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jewish democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed it is.  Thank you for acknowledging it.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a compliment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have a nice day  "Louie"
Click to expand...

Debate won then. Ta.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.



Please elaborate.  Why was Israel "never going to work"?  What about it "doesn't work"?

Also, what do you mean by "rights to that land"?  Do you mean rights as citizens?  Or rights to sovereignty?  Those are two VERY different sets of rights.  

Also, with respect to rights to things such as infrastructure and water, do obligations come with those rights?  For example, is there an obligation not to steal water by breaking into delivery systems?  Is there an obligation to maintain and repair delivery systems?  Is there an obligation to obtain correct permits and follow a community plan?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the Mandate, on behalf of the Zionists, attacked first. The Palestinians have always been on the defensive.



Yes, yes.  Once again putting forth the notion that the mere IDEA of self-determination for the Jewish people in their own homeland is an attack on another peoples.  Next you'll be saying that the very  existence of Catalans is an attack on the Spanish.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now.



Wow.  So ethnic cleansing and genocide is just fine, as long as they "deserve it".  Just wow.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  So ethnic cleansing and genocide is just fine, as long as they "deserve it".  Just wow.
Click to expand...

It's what Israelis do in palestina.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate.  Why was Israel "never going to work"?  What about it "doesn't work"?
Click to expand...

It is proclamed too soon. The Israelis have no more right to that land than palestinians. They made the move they knew would mean massacre for decades.



> Also, what do you mean by "rights to that land"?  Do you mean rights as citizens?  Or rights to sovereignty?


Both.



> Also, with respect to rights to things such as infrastructure and water, do obligations come with those rights?  For example, is there an obligation not to steal water by breaking into delivery systems?  Is there an obligation to maintain and repair delivery systems?  Is there an obligation to obtain correct permits and follow a community plan?


I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


Isn't this supposed to be posted in a comedy forum?


----------



## rylah

*1939: Australia vs Palestine soccer match.*
Team Palestine is represented by the Star of David emblem.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, what do you mean by "rights to that land"?  Do you mean rights as citizens?  Or rights to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> Both.
Click to expand...


Okay.  So far we agree.

Do the Jewish people also have rights to both?


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.



That is a very broad statement.  And it largely dodges my questions.  "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements.  And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. * Fair warning*.  

So, as an example.  If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...

1.  Who has obligations in this case?
2.  Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
3.  If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a very broad statement.  And it largely dodges my questions.  "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements.  And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. * Fair warning*.
> 
> So, as an example.  If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...
> 
> 1.  Who has obligations in this case?
> 2.  Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
> 3.  If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?
Click to expand...

I'm a bit too frightened right now to think clearly but i am talking about moral responsibility.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a very broad statement.  And it largely dodges my questions.  "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements.  And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. * Fair warning*.
> 
> So, as an example.  If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...
> 
> 1.  Who has obligations in this case?
> 2.  Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
> 3.  If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm a bit too frightened right now to think clearly but i am talking about moral responsibility.
Click to expand...


Sure. 

So does Canada have a moral responsibility to provide clean drinking water to Flint, Michigan?  Why or why not?

Does Sweden have a moral obligation to provide water to rural isolated First Nations communities in northern Canada?

Does Japan have a moral responsibility to ensure clean drinking water in Congo. 

BTW did you know that more than 2 billion people worldwide have no regular access to clean water?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a very broad statement.  And it largely dodges my questions.  "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements.  And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. * Fair warning*.
> 
> So, as an example.  If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...
> 
> 1.  Who has obligations in this case?
> 2.  Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
> 3.  If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm a bit too frightened right now to think clearly but i am talking about moral responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> So does Canada have a moral responsibility to provide clean drinking water to Flint, Michigan?  Why or why not?
> 
> Does Sweden have a moral obligation to provide water to rural isolated First Nations communities in northern Canada?
> 
> Does Japan have a moral responsibility to ensure clean drinking water in Congo.
> 
> BTW did you know that more than 2 billion people worldwide have no regular access to clean water?
Click to expand...

We are talking about water sources taken away from Palestinians and Israel holding onto some sources that they only occationally allow  to be used by Palestinias. But that is obvious. So you're just trying to divert the subject to say everyone is equally morally obligued to do such things but that is not true. The very word "moral obligation" has the word _moral_ in it because the whole obligation depend of the position onto whom the obligation falls.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


>


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> We are talking about water sources taken away from Palestinians and Israel holding onto some sources that they only occationally allow  to be used by Palestinias. But that is obvious.



But what do you mean when you say "water sources taken away from Palestinians"?  100% of the people in Israel have access to water.  Slightly less than that in the PA-controlled West Bank and Hamas-controlled Gaza.  So do you mean that Israel has built one of the most sophisticated and technologically advanced water delivery systems in the world?  That Israel is one of the world leaders in water conservation and management, this despite the fact that 44% of the water provided by Israel to Palestinians is LOST due to poorly maintained and unrepaired delivery infrastructure and theft?  That Israel manages the Coastal Aquifer because it was this [ ] close to being permanently destroyed through over-use by the Palestinians?  That Israel restricts the building of new wells to the Mountain Aquifer in order to prevent the same over-use and you know, actually manage the water supply in an area prone to drought and low rainfall?  Or do you mean that one spring in Nabi Saleh which has become a symbol of "oppression" but doesn't actually provide much water?

Do you know what I mean when I say "useful idiot"?  Its someone who hears a common sound bite, like "Israel steals Palestine's water" and adopts the sound bite without any research and knowledge.  They begin to parrot the idea without understanding anything about the facts and realities, or even stop to think about what the sound bite means.



> So you're just trying to divert the subject to say ...


What I am trying to do is take the conversation away from a simplistic "Israel is evil" and discuss the topics more fairly, more objectively and in more depth.  I'm trying to get people to do the work and gain the knowledge and quit with the meaningless sound bites.  I'm trying to get the useful idiots to start taking apart these sound bites and begin to understand the complex issues involved.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are talking about water sources taken away from Palestinians and Israel holding onto some sources that they only occationally allow  to be used by Palestinias. But that is obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you mean when you say "water sources taken away from Palestinians"?
Click to expand...

There used to be a river very conceniently so the Palestinians had an easy access to it. Israelis changed the water route for their own convenience. 





> 100% of the people in Israel have access to water. Where is Israel? And how do ypu know this?





> Slightly less than that in the PA-controlled West Bank and Hamas-controlled Gaza.


 actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The British Foreign Office showed appalling judgement when scheduling a visit by Prince William to a refugee camp in the West Bank which should have been closed down long ago. The Prince  – obviously moved by what he saw – *remarked*: 

_*“I saw at Jalazon (refugee camp) the tremendous hardships faced by the refugees, and I can only imagine the difficulties of life lived under these conditions, the ed (sic) resources and the lack of opportunity

” *_Regrettably Prince William failed to question why: 

1. Jalazon had not been dismantled during the past 25 years after it came under Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) control. 2. Jalazon’s inhabitants should still be classified as “refugees” when they are living in part of former Palestine now under PLO occupation. Prince William’s visit was closely followed by a meeting between Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and United Nations (UN) Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process  – Nickolay Mladenov.

During their meeting Abbas stressed the UN's important role in providing protection for 
the “Palestinian people” and the necessity of continuing to provide services to the “Palestinian refugees” through the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). 

Undiscussed between them was why the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza have failed to close down the 27 refugee camps still remaining within their respective fiefdoms.

The West Bank currently has *775,000 *registered “refugees” – *around a quarter of who live in 19 refugee camps*. Most of the others live in West Bank towns and villages. Some camps are located next to major towns and others are in rural areas.

UNRWA provides services in these 19 Palestine refugee camps – but does not administer or police the camps – as this is the responsibility of the PLO – intriguingly identified as the “host authority” by UNRWA Gaza has *1.3 million* registered “refugees” – of who *500,000*currently live in *8 refugee camps*. As in the West Bank – UNRWA does not administer or police these camps -this being the responsibility of the “host authority” – Hamas. 

The West Bank refugee camps are all located within Areas “A” and “B” – some 40% of the territory of the West Bank – being under full PLO administrative control as designated by the Oslo Accords. 95% of the West Bank Arab population – including all those living in the refugee camps – live in Areas “A” and “B”

(full article online)

Daphne Anson: David Singer: Hamas and PLO Entrench Apartheid in Gaza and West Bank


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## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


>


Yes. Isralis are empathetic. Even when they're beating you up.


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## Sixties Fan

EU officials said following the incident that the EU was dissatisfied with Hamdallah's performance and the contempt he displayed towards the delegation.

The delegation is headed by Christian Danielsson, responsible for the Middle East in the European Commision and for funds transferred to the Palestinian Authority, as well as the European Union's foreign affairs managing director Fernando Gentilini, who served as EU envoy for the peace process.

Hamdallah's refusal to meet with the delegation comes after the demand by the two officials that Hamdallah give explanations about the use of EU funds, amid suspicions that the PA is using EU funds to make payments to terrorists and their families.

(full article online)

Outrage after PA snubs EU


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## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.



Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.  

I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday was the 13th anniversary of the London bombings on July 7, 2005. On that day, Muslim terrorists detonated three bombs on London's Underground and a fourth on a double-decker bus. In the explosions, 52 people were murdered and over 700 were injured. 

Since its creation in 1994, the Palestinian Authority has spent billions of shekels rewarding and incentivizing Palestinian terrorism against Israelis, paying monthly salaries to imprisoned terrorists as well as monthly allowances to the families of the so-called "Martyrs," including suicide bombers.
If the London terrorists had been Palestinians who had carried out equivalent attacks in Jerusalem targeting Israelis, the PA would have already paid the families of the four terrorists a combined total of *£142,680 pounds (687,200 shekels)*. 

PA Minister of Education and Higher Education Sabri Saidam announced in November 2017 that the UK government had agreed to pay its annual contribution of 20 million pounds, which is "
*allocated to support the [PA] general budget of Palestine*." [WAFA, official PA news agency, Nov. 25, 2017]

This allocation is only a fraction of the financial support the UK government provides to the PA annually.

In its 2018 budget, the PA allocated 680 million shekels from its general budget, predominantly to pay allowances to the families of thousands of dead Palestinian terrorist "Martyrs," including those who have carried out suicide attacks.

One of the Palestinian families who receives such payments is the family of suicide bomber Wafa Idris who carried out a suicide attack in the heart of Jerusalem in January 2002, murdering one and injuring over 100. 

The document approving her "Martyr" status and the PA allocation of the allowance to her family explains that Idris:

"... carried out an act of martyrdom (sic. suicide attack) in occupied Jerusalem (sic. attack was in West Jerusalem) when she blew herself up in a group of Zionists. This led to the death of one of them, to the injury of more than 100 others, and to her death as a Martyr at the site, according to the enemy's media report. The Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades (Fatah's military wing) claimed responsibility for the attack... She died as a Martyr when she carried out a heroic act against the Zionists in the occupied city of Jerusalem."
[Palestinian Ministry of Welfare and the Institute of Martyrs and the Wounded, February 2002]

Since it is inconceivable that the UK would fund allowances to the families of the London bombers, one would expect that the UK similarly would reject funding such allowances to Palestinian terrorists.

(full article  online)

Imagine if the London bombers had been Palestinian bombers - PMW Bulletins


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## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.
> 
> I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.
Click to expand...

I rest my case. I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn ambulances to help a palestinian.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.
> 
> I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case. I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn ambulances to help a palestinian.
Click to expand...


Oh you are just all over the place, aren't you, dancing from one blood libel to the next whenever I respond with factual information?  Just precious.

The Palestinians run their own ambulances through the Palestinian Red Crescent Society.  They have about 41 stations, 122 ambulances and about 350 active EMTs.  They operate freely in Areas A, B and Gaza.  They are subject to checkpoints when entering Israel because they are frequently used to transport bombs, terrorists and rioters, including those disguised as pregnant women, injured and terminally ill.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.
> 
> I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case. I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn ambulances to help a palestinian.
Click to expand...

You are a liar, a denialist and an absolute Jew hater.

There hasn't been one thing about Jews and Israel you have not attempted to deny or destroy, from ancient Israel's existence to how Israel helps Arab Palestinians in every way possible, from jobs, to health care to education.

You know you are lying.

We more than know you are lying.
----------------
And,  unbelievable though it may sound, because of desire and will, it is working. Last year, 180,000 Palestinian citizens entered Israel to receive treatment. 3,000 emergency patients were transferred from Israeli to Palestinian ambulances using the “back to back” method, without warning. “Ultimately, this is a rewarding experience. There is frustration, of course there is. But on the other hand, there are people who see me on the street or in hospitals, hear my name and say ‘You saved my son’s life’. When you get home in the end of the day and examine your life, you know that you saved lives. You know you did a lot of good.”

180,000 Palestinians Treated in Israeli Hospitals This Year

-----------
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/humanitarian/pages/default.aspx

--------------

I will second what Susha wrote:

You are a vile Jew hater, nothing more, nothing less.


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## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.
> 
> I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case. I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn ambulances to help a palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a liar, a denialist and an absolute Jew hater.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.
> 
> I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case. I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn ambulances to help a palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a liar, a denialist and an absolute Jew hater.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So, you are definitely a Denialist.  Those who deny that Israel does help the Palestinians and everyone else who needs help.

Yep, you chose the correct icons to explain how your mind works.
A laugh onto itself.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Neda Amin *
Neda Amin is an Iranian journalist who was deported from Turkey and received asylum in Israel, partly due to Arutz Sheva's publication of her plight. She is employed in the Iranian Department at Israel Behind the News.

_Translated from Farsi by Dr. Arnon Groiss_

A military training camp in the Gaza Strip has started a new project for training Palestinian youngsters under the course title “How will we kill an Israeli?” In the course curriculum, the youngsters, who study at school and are recruited by Palestinian semi-military groups, learn methods of attacking and killing Jews.

This military training camp, established with the cooperation and financial support of the Iranian regime, and specifically – the paramilitary personnel of the Revolutionary Guards’ army, provides courses for 14-year and up youngsters, so that they shoot at targets made to look like Israelis whom the trainers of this camp call “usurpers and terrorists”.

This project, that began in early May and continued on following the latest clashes in the Gaza Strip, has so far included close to 180 Palestinian Arabs, a number of whom have joined the group from Judea and Samaria. They pursue activities under the title of “anti-terrorism training” in order to fight the government of Israel.

As part of  the course, that is taught in a military camp, the Palestinian Arab students are taught how they should fire at an Israeli soldier and, in case of confrontation, how to defend themselves or flee.

(full article online)

Gaza Curriculum: 'How shall we kill an Israeli?'


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## Ecocertifmrl

I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.


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## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.


Go ahead AP journalist, Professor, Detective, and everything else you seem to be.

YOU tell us who the Palestinians are.  

Do tell something we do not know about the Palestinians which has not come out of the Palestinians mouths themselves.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead AP journalist, Professor, Detective, and everything else you seem to be.
> 
> YOU tell us who the Palestinians are.
> 
> Do tell something we do not know about the Palestinians which has not come out of the Palestinians mouths themselves.
Click to expand...

It's very kind of you to ask but this is a discussion forum. I prefer not to discuss with random articles. At least Shusha tried to use her own words. Why don't you try it.


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## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead AP journalist, Professor, Detective, and everything else you seem to be.
> 
> YOU tell us who the Palestinians are.
> 
> Do tell something we do not know about the Palestinians which has not come out of the Palestinians mouths themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's very kind of you to ask but this is a discussion forum. I prefer not to discuss with random articles. At least Shusha tried to use her own words. Why don't you try it.
Click to expand...

In other words, you cannot find one video or anything which comes out of Palestinian media which tells who the Palestinians are and you respond by crying "foul!!! "  ?

I have plenty of my words, like in the last post and now. And as you do not like it , I also use the words of those who are actual experts
and very experienced with "Who the Palestinians Are", like Neda Amin and many others.

You, on the other hand, use endless excuses and denialism which lead only to your crying more and more about Israel and us, as if it were an actual proof of knowledge.  Knowledge which you are basically devoid of.

Zero knowledge.  Zero interest.  Zero responses.

Now, again.....Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has reportedly begun returning its security forces to the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel, the first time the terror organization has done so since the start of deadly clashes in late March.

The forces, part of a Hamas unit tasked with maintaining calm on the border and preventing rocket attacks by “rebellious” terror groups, were deployed on Sunday to at least two different points along the border, Hadashot TV news reported.

The report said the move was likely due to tensions between Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and was intended to restore Hamas’s control of the border. On Friday, a member of the latter group mistakenly hurled a grenade at a group of Hamas fighters, killing one and injuring several others.

(full article online)

Hamas forces said to return to Gaza border in bid to restore calm


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead AP journalist, Professor, Detective, and everything else you seem to be.
> 
> YOU tell us who the Palestinians are.
> 
> Do tell something we do not know about the Palestinians which has not come out of the Palestinians mouths themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's very kind of you to ask but this is a discussion forum. I prefer not to discuss with random articles. At least Shusha tried to use her own words. Why don't you try it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you cannot find one video or anything which comes out of P?
Click to expand...

a video. Are you kidding me? Im too old to fight over youtube videos.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead AP journalist, Professor, Detective, and everything else you seem to be.
> 
> YOU tell us who the Palestinians are.
> 
> Do tell something we do not know about the Palestinians which has not come out of the Palestinians mouths themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's very kind of you to ask but this is a discussion forum. I prefer not to discuss with random articles. At least Shusha tried to use her own words. Why don't you try it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you cannot find one video or anything which comes out of P?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> a video. Are you kidding me? Im too old to fight over youtube videos.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that Israeli propaganda is tge right source to tell us who Palestinians are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead AP journalist, Professor, Detective, and everything else you seem to be.
> 
> YOU tell us who the Palestinians are.
> 
> Do tell something we do not know about the Palestinians which has not come out of the Palestinians mouths themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's very kind of you to ask but this is a discussion forum. I prefer not to discuss with random articles. At least Shusha tried to use her own words. Why don't you try it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you cannot find one video or anything which comes out of P?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> a video. Are you kidding me? Im too old to fight over youtube videos.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I do. I'm not thirteen anymore - i feel the age gap between us is too great.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who are the Palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

In September 2014, Islamic Jihad admitted that 121 of its members were killed in Operation Protective Edge.

Now, Islamic Jihad says 135 of its members were killed during that war.

Maybe a few of them succumbed to injuries afterwards, but 14 seems a bit high for that.

Which means that here are an additional dozen or so more people who were reported as "innocent civilians" by NGOs like Amnesty and the UN who were, in fact,  terrorists.

(full article online)

14 more "innocent civilians" just discovered to be Islamic Jihad terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Jews, Christians, and Arabs are prevented from accessing the site due to its lack of accessibility."

Dei'iy also explained that the Palestinian Authority's municipal control of Hevron is what prevents the Defense Ministry and Civil Administration from making the Cave of the Patriarchs accessible.

Zoabi's parliamentary assistant wrote back to Dei'iy: "There is no question that accessibility is important, but we do not deal with requests which pertain to places in the occupied territories."

Dei'iy responded by pointing out that such a stance "severely harms the Palestinians there as well."

"There are Palestinians there, and a solution will help everyone," he emphasized.

(full article online)

Arab MK: Accessibility isn't important in Hevron


----------



## Sixties Fan

Suddenly, the Palestinians are showing interest in this Chinese proposal that says very little. The reason is that they are growing more and more nervous over the US "deal of the century" gaining traction and they want to find any alternative so that they don't appear to be against peace.

Nabil Shaath, Mahmoud Abbas'advisor on foreign affairs and international relations, welcomed the Chinese initiative in an interview with Voice of Palestine Radio on Monday. He said that it would be an alternative to the so-called "deal of the century," which he claims has collapsed "because of Palestinian, Arab and international rejection."

If it collapsed, no one would be talking about an obscure Chinese proposal.

(full article online)

Suddenly, Palestinians are interested in a forgotten Chinese peace proposal ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Mahmoud Abbas' advisor on Foreign Affairs and International Relations Nabil Shaath:* "*This filthy talk of ''the criminals'' in connection with our Martyrs and prisoners - while they are our heroes*, the heroes of self-sacrifice and the candles of freedom. They cannot be compared to the Israeli criminals in Israel's prisons... *Australia's decision [to stop] transferring $10 million angered me greatly...* It transferred [the aid to the UN]... so that it would not serve for payment of the salaries of the [prisoners and Martyrs'] families. In other words, *the truth is they are worthy of being spat on.* You [Australians] are the servants of the US... *I don't want your 10 million, I don't want to chase after them*."
[Official PA TV, _Topic of the Day_, July 3, 2018]

Shaath's definition of Palestinian terrorist prisoners as "heroes" and "candles of freedom" exemplifies the PA's policy of honoring terrorists and murderers, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. Shaath's comments are also a result of Israel's passing of the law to deduct terror salaries from PA tax money.

(full article online)

Spit on Australia, says Abbas’ advisor on Foreign Affairs - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> *Mahmoud Abbas' advisor on Foreign Affairs and International Relations Nabil Shaath:* "*This filthy talk of ''the criminals'' in connection with our Martyrs and prisoners - while they are our heroes*, the heroes of self-sacrifice and the candles of freedom. They cannot be compared to the Israeli criminals in Israel's prisons... *Australia's decision [to stop] transferring $10 million angered me greatly...* It transferred [the aid to the UN]... so that it would not serve for payment of the salaries of the [prisoners and Martyrs'] families. In other words, *the truth is they are worthy of being spat on.* You [Australians] are the servants of the US... *I don't want your 10 million, I don't want to chase after them*."
> [Official PA TV, _Topic of the Day_, July 3, 2018]
> 
> Shaath's definition of Palestinian terrorist prisoners as "heroes" and "candles of freedom" exemplifies the PA's policy of honoring terrorists and murderers, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. Shaath's comments are also a result of Israel's passing of the law to deduct terror salaries from PA tax money.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Spit on Australia, says Abbas’ advisor on Foreign Affairs - PMW Bulletins


And what do you make of that? Or am i supposed to respond directly to Abbas?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad threatens Israel


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Islamic Jihad threatens Israel


Anything to say?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, a Gaza group called National Authority for Return and Breaking the Siege in Gaza is putting Gazans injured during the current weekly riots on a boat in a publicity stunt.

They are pretending to try to sail to Cyprus, but they are barely pretending. They want Israel to intercept the boat and then they will try to gain world headlines about cruel Israeli practices of stopping injured people from going on a journey that would probably harm the passengers more than the capture would.


Since the entire point of these things is publicity, and the first one didn't generate any, it's entirely possible that one of the passengers is deathly ill and wants to die for the cause of gaining world headlines and making Israel look bad. It isn't as if this sort of thing hasn't happened before.

(full article online)

Gazans putting injured people on a rickety boat to be captured by Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yet the current Palestinian Grand Mufti is issuing a fatwa that places the sale of land to Jews in the same category as the worst possible crime in Islam, with a punishment that goes beyond Islamic law. He is saying that selling land is blasphemy, which has no legal basis whatsoever.  (He did use a Quranic verse, 60:9, that says that those who drive Muslims out of their homes are wrongdoers, and he equates the sellers of land to the people who drive people out of their homes, but even then the Quran never says they are blasphemers.)

Mainstream Muslim clerics should be as adamant against this fatwa as they are against ISIS, since Qutb's idea of takfirism is based on a relatively new interpretation of the Quran - and the mufti Hussein is going way beyond Qutb in declaring that selling land is legally the same as blasphemy and treachery.

(full article online)

Selling land to Jews is now the worst crime in Islam ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> Yet the current Palestinian Grand Mufti is issuing a fatwa that places the sale of land to Jews in the same category as the worst possible crime in Islam, with a punishment that goes beyond Islamic law. He is saying that selling land is blasphemy, which has no legal basis whatsoever.  (He did use a Quranic verse, 60:9, that says that those who drive Muslims out of their homes are wrongdoers, and he equates the sellers of land to the people who drive people out of their homes, but even then the Quran never says they are blasphemers.)
> 
> Mainstream Muslim clerics should be as adamant against this fatwa as they are against ISIS, since Qutb's idea of takfirism is based on a relatively new interpretation of the Quran - and the mufti Hussein is going way beyond Qutb in declaring that selling land is legally the same as blasphemy and treachery.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Selling land to Jews is now the worst crime in Islam ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


I don't you should contributing your mainstream to a thread called "who are the Palestinians"


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Someone should take their word for it ]

At a Fatah demonstration earlier this month, Abbas' deputy chairman of Fatah, Mahmoud Al-Aloul, announced that Palestinians don't want US aid, because US is "forming an alliance" with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, "the Israeli enemy":









*Fatah Deputy Chairman and Fatah Central Committee member Mahmoud Al-Aloul:* "Mahmoud Abbas has told him [Trump], and we are telling him, that America is not fit to be a sponsor of peace... This American Trump is forming an alliance with [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu, the Israeli enemy, who is sowing havoc and destruction over the land by expropriation and building settlements... We want freedom. We want independence. *We want an end to the occupation. We don't want your flour, your wheat, or your aid*."
[Official PA TV, July 2, 2018]

(full article online)

Fatah to US: “We don’t want your flour, your wheat, or your aid”  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs who have lived in the enclave for decades under the rule of their Palestinian Authority brethren — first Fatah prior to Hamas — have made no secret of the dismal conditions under which they have been forced to struggle for survival. The few decades spent together with the Jews of Gush Katif in Gaza — a memory gone since 2005 — were treasured as a time when Arabs were able to earn a decent living, and had neighbors they could count on.

Now the brightest, best trained, wealthiest and most qualified among them are quietly, desperately biding their time and working every possible channel to find a way to escape the hell that is Gaza. And not just doctors, even young members of Hamas are trying to find ways to escape the enclave. And those are the people who have the financial means to escape, the rest of the population is trapped, and they also desperately want to leave, too.

There’s a price to be paid for those who want to leave, whether it be on an ambulance stretcher through the Erez Crossing into Israel for a trip to the doctor, or on one’s two legs through the Rafah Crossing into Egypt, and perhaps gone for good.

The art and ability of leaving Gaza has become ‘big business’ that has replaced the tolls and taxes Hamas once collected from the underground cross-border smuggling tunnels. Those have largely been destroyed by Egypt in the wake of the arms and terror trade with Sinai.

The only way out, according to Arab affairs journalist Muhammad Shehada, is by “paying the unaffordable bribe for the “coordinated passage,” as it is called — and the Palestinian Authority grants departure priority to people whose names top Hamas-made waiting lists.

(full article online)

The Great Escape from Hamas-Ruled Gaza, by Anyone Who Can


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Terrorist Muhammad Aql recruited suicide bombers who murdered 14 and wounded 50 in bus bombing*
k
*Parents: “He is imprisoned for an action that honors us”
j*
*The PA pays imprisoned terrorists monthly salaries and has allocated 7.47% of its 2018 budget for such rewards to imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, families of so-called “Martyrs” and wounded*

(full article online)

What makes a Palestinian parent proud?  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas and his West Bank-based government seek to prolong the suffering of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. They want the international community to continue to believe that Israel is responsible for the ongoing, intense suffering of the Palestinians. They are hoping to use the crisis there to pursue their campaign to delegitimize Israel.


Palestinian leaders would prefer to see their people starve than make any form of concessions for peace with Israel. Yet Al-Aloul and Abbas are not the ones who are facing starvation. There is nothing more comfortable than sitting in your fashionable house in Ramallah or Nablus and talking about starvation and humanitarian aid.


The Palestinians of the Gaza Strip, who are desperate for jobs and a better life, do not really care about Trump's upcoming peace plan. They also do not really care about a settlement or a checkpoint in the West Bank.


This is the essence of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: The Palestinians' number one priority -- the Palestinian leadership and the Palestinians in general -- is destroying Israel. They would rather die than give up their dream of destroying Israel.

(full article online)

Why Do Palestinian Leaders Oppose Helping Their People?


----------



## Sixties Fan

One year later — the answer to "Where Are Your Jews?" - UN Watch


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yes, seriously. It seems to have been around since 2011, and much like their museum and, come to think of it, space itself, it is full of nothing.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Space Agency is a Thing


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not only that, but it means asking some uncomfortable questions about why Sirhan is regarded a hero among the Palestinians. During his trial, The Los Angeles Times reported that the PLO distributed posters throughout Beirut with a photo of Sirhan, a drawing of a Palestinian with a rifle, and the headline: “Sirhan Bishara Sirhan: a Commando, Not an Assassin.”

Yes, that’s the same PLO that the United Nations, the news media, and the State Department keep telling us is moderate and reasonable, and gave up terrorism. If so, why does the PLO consider terrorists like Sirhan to be heroes? And why have so many sympathetic articles about Sirhan appeared in the Palestinian press? Those are not the kinds of questions that CNN or “Morning Joe” want to talk about.

At least 144 American citizens have been murdered by Palestinian Arabs since the 1960s. Robert F. Kennedy was the first.

(full article online)

Covering Up Robert Kennedy’s Palestinian Murderer


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official Palestinian Authority uses word "Talmud" more than Jewish media ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This page at the Palestine Cabinet website shows that anyone who spent more than a year in Israeli prisons is entitled to free health insurance.

They still have to fill out paperwork - proof that they were in prison more than a year, proof that they are no longer in prison.

Regular Palestinians have to pay a monthly fee for health insurance. Even the unemployed have to pay a token fee. From what I can tell, former prisoners who have been held in Israeli prisons for terror activities are the only ones who get free health insurance.

(full article online)

Palestinian terrorists also get free health insurance ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> This page at the Palestine Cabinet website shows that anyone who spent more than a year in Israeli prisons is entitled to free health insurance.
> 
> They still have to fill out paperwork - proof that they were in prison more than a year, proof that they are no longer in prison.
> 
> Regular Palestinians have to pay a monthly fee for health insurance. Even the unemployed have to pay a token fee. From what I can tell, former prisoners who have been held in Israeli prisons for terror activities are the only ones who get free health insurance.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian terrorists also get free health insurance ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


What does this have to do with who Palestinians are? You're a wee bit self centered.


----------



## Sixties Fan

These are only small examples of the mad state of things in the Gaza Strip. Gaza’s bipolar nature is also evident in bigger issues: Hamas, the terror organization that controls Gaza and seeks Israel’s destruction, has been intermittently working in recent weeks to keep things relatively calm with the Jewish state, even amid periodic escalations of rocket fire and endless fire kites and incendiary balloons flown into and burning the fields of southern Israel. It has also been intermittently trying to reach a long-term cease-fire agreement with Israel, even as it continues to dig terror tunnels and produce long-range rockets.





This file photo taken on July 3, 2017, shows Palestinian boys swimming in the Mediterranean Sea next to donkeys in the sewage-polluted waters of Gaza City. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)

While ever howling of “hardship” and “the blockade,” Hamas consistently chooses to spend its funds on its terror infrastructure rather than investing in the population. Examples of this abound, from the enormous budget of its military wing to its collection of money from Gaza’s residents to fund its ongoing military activity. A classic example is recent events at the Rafah border crossing.

(full article online)

Truce or war: Hamas’s bipolar rule in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> These are only small examples of the mad state of things in the Gaza Strip. Gaza’s bipolar nature is also evident in bigger issues: Hamas, the terror organization that controls Gaza and seeks Israel’s destruction, has been intermittently working in recent weeks to keep things relatively calm with the Jewish state, even amid periodic escalations of rocket fire and endless fire kites and incendiary balloons flown into and burning the fields of southern Israel. It has also been intermittently trying to reach a long-term cease-fire agreement with Israel, even as it continues to dig terror tunnels and produce long-range rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This file photo taken on July 3, 2017, shows Palestinian boys swimming in the Mediterranean Sea next to donkeys in the sewage-polluted waters of Gaza City. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
> 
> While ever howling of “hardship” and “the blockade,” Hamas consistently chooses to spend its funds on its terror infrastructure rather than investing in the population. Examples of this abound, from the enormous budget of its military wing to its collection of money from Gaza’s residents to fund its ongoing military activity. A classic example is recent events at the Rafah border crossing.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Truce or war: Hamas’s bipolar rule in Gaza


Their defense system was formidable. When Israel went in on the ground they got its ass kicked.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are only small examples of the mad state of things in the Gaza Strip. Gaza’s bipolar nature is also evident in bigger issues: Hamas, the terror organization that controls Gaza and seeks Israel’s destruction, has been intermittently working in recent weeks to keep things relatively calm with the Jewish state, even amid periodic escalations of rocket fire and endless fire kites and incendiary balloons flown into and burning the fields of southern Israel. It has also been intermittently trying to reach a long-term cease-fire agreement with Israel, even as it continues to dig terror tunnels and produce long-range rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This file photo taken on July 3, 2017, shows Palestinian boys swimming in the Mediterranean Sea next to donkeys in the sewage-polluted waters of Gaza City. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
> 
> While ever howling of “hardship” and “the blockade,” Hamas consistently chooses to spend its funds on its terror infrastructure rather than investing in the population. Examples of this abound, from the enormous budget of its military wing to its collection of money from Gaza’s residents to fund its ongoing military activity. A classic example is recent events at the Rafah border crossing.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Truce or war: Hamas’s bipolar rule in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Their defense system was formidable. When Israel went in on the ground they got its ass kicked.
Click to expand...


*Palestinian "formidable" defense system: *


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are only small examples of the mad state of things in the Gaza Strip. Gaza’s bipolar nature is also evident in bigger issues: Hamas, the terror organization that controls Gaza and seeks Israel’s destruction, has been intermittently working in recent weeks to keep things relatively calm with the Jewish state, even amid periodic escalations of rocket fire and endless fire kites and incendiary balloons flown into and burning the fields of southern Israel. It has also been intermittently trying to reach a long-term cease-fire agreement with Israel, even as it continues to dig terror tunnels and produce long-range rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This file photo taken on July 3, 2017, shows Palestinian boys swimming in the Mediterranean Sea next to donkeys in the sewage-polluted waters of Gaza City. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
> 
> While ever howling of “hardship” and “the blockade,” Hamas consistently chooses to spend its funds on its terror infrastructure rather than investing in the population. Examples of this abound, from the enormous budget of its military wing to its collection of money from Gaza’s residents to fund its ongoing military activity. A classic example is recent events at the Rafah border crossing.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Truce or war: Hamas’s bipolar rule in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Their defense system was formidable. When Israel went in on the ground they got its ass kicked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestinian "formidable" defense system: *
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are only small examples of the mad state of things in the Gaza Strip. Gaza’s bipolar nature is also evident in bigger issues: Hamas, the terror organization that controls Gaza and seeks Israel’s destruction, has been intermittently working in recent weeks to keep things relatively calm with the Jewish state, even amid periodic escalations of rocket fire and endless fire kites and incendiary balloons flown into and burning the fields of southern Israel. It has also been intermittently trying to reach a long-term cease-fire agreement with Israel, even as it continues to dig terror tunnels and produce long-range rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This file photo taken on July 3, 2017, shows Palestinian boys swimming in the Mediterranean Sea next to donkeys in the sewage-polluted waters of Gaza City. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
> 
> While ever howling of “hardship” and “the blockade,” Hamas consistently chooses to spend its funds on its terror infrastructure rather than investing in the population. Examples of this abound, from the enormous budget of its military wing to its collection of money from Gaza’s residents to fund its ongoing military activity. A classic example is recent events at the Rafah border crossing.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Truce or war: Hamas’s bipolar rule in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Their defense system was formidable. When Israel went in on the ground they got its ass kicked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestinian "formidable" defense system: *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


*Palestinian formidable "defense" system:*


----------



## member

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.
> 
> I stand corrected.  You are not a useful idiot.  Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case. I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn ambulances to help a palestinian.
Click to expand...



*"I don't buy your statostics thpugh. Israelis won't even allow god damn*
*ambulances to help a palestinian." *












I do recognize those typos......seriously.  joanswitchblade.....wanna go over it 

 again...? the whole thing.  the "god damn," the ......emptiness of your _self_.......why palestinians voted for terrorists to govern them and....how come they made stupid bomb-kites?  what are they morons ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas-run Gaza health ministry reported two Gazans were killed in an explosion in Gaza City. They were named in media reports as Ahmad Husan and his 13-year-old son Louay Husan.


Here's the poor victim:





It is a shame that the Fatah-aligned Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades cannot afford uniforms, and its leaders are forced to do their weapons poses in their street clothes.

(full article online)

Work accident! Gaza rocket expert kills himself, his son ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Here is a Palestinian who does not care about what is going on in Gaza  ]




Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas at the La Cisterna Municipal Stadium during a visit with soccer club Deportivo Palestino, in Santiago, Chile, May 10, 2018.(AP Photo/Esteban Felix)

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is facing domestic criticism for his decision to attend Sunday’s World Cup final in Moscow amid ongoing unrest in Gaza, where Israel and Palestinian terrorist groups have exchanged fire resulting in casualties on both sides of the tense border.

Palestinian soccer chief Jibril Rjoub announced last month that Abbas would travel to Russia for the game and would meet with President Vladimir Putin to discuss “bilateral relations and the latest political developments.”

(full article online)

Abbas criticized for World Cup visit amid Gaza clashes


----------



## Hollie

Because you know it's important that the next generation of mass murderers, suicide bombers and mentally defective zealots have heroes to emulate.  
*

Fatah: Teach children about Palestinian terror*

Fatah: Teach children about Palestinian terror - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah on Facebook: "Share [this post] so that our children will know," about a bombing in which 15 Israeli civilians were murdered in the center of Jerusalem*

By Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus

Abbas' Fatah is encouraging Palestinian parents to teach their children about a terror bombing in which 15 Israelis were murdered and over 60 wounded in 1975.  

In a post on Facebook, Fatah writes about the terror attack in which terrorist Ahmad Abu Sukkar filled a refrigerator with explosives and had it driven to the center of Jerusalem where it was detonated:  
*"Share so that our children will know about it."*
Fatah for years has glorified this murderous attack as the "refrigerator operation."

Fatah also honored the terrorist himself by posting three photos of him:   





*Posted Text:* "38 years since the refrigerator operation, which caused the death of 13 Israelis (sic., 15) in Jerusalem's markets

Share so that our children will know about it 
From the memory: 

The refrigerator bomb operation, Jerusalem, 1975 

The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah 

The operation was carried out by Ahmad Jabarah Abu Sukkar, born in July 1936. He was taken captive long after the operation and sat in the Israeli prison for 27 years." 
[Official Fatah Facebook page, July 5, 2018


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian terrorism and Muslim hypocrisy: An open letter from a Muslim woman

Thank you to brave Nadiya Al-Noor for speaking out against hypocrisy in her Muslim community.

"Let me tell you something. Stabbing pregnant women in the stomach is not “resistance.” Shooting people at a cafe is not “resistance.” Driving your car into pedestrians is not “resistance.” Bombing a bus is not “resistance.” Breaking into a woman’s home and murdering her in front of her children is not “resistance.” And stabbing a little girl to death in the one place where she was supposed to be safe is certainly not “resistance.” Terrorism is not resistance. Terrorism is an unjustifiable crime."




About this article

BLOGS.TIMESOFISRAEL.COM



Somewhere, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit. 

Let’s hope this woman is not murdered by Arabs-Moslems to save someone’s “honor”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palestinian terrorism and Muslim hypocrisy: An open letter from a Muslim woman
> 
> Thank you to brave Nadiya Al-Noor for speaking out against hypocrisy in her Muslim community.
> 
> "Let me tell you something. Stabbing pregnant women in the stomach is not “resistance.” Shooting people at a cafe is not “resistance.” Driving your car into pedestrians is not “resistance.” Bombing a bus is not “resistance.” Breaking into a woman’s home and murdering her in front of her children is not “resistance.” And stabbing a little girl to death in the one place where she was supposed to be safe is certainly not “resistance.” Terrorism is not resistance. Terrorism is an unjustifiable crime."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About this article
> 
> BLOGS.TIMESOFISRAEL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit.
> 
> Let’s hope this woman is not murdered by Arabs-Moslems to save someone’s “honor”


Stealing land and killing people when they object is not self defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorism and Muslim hypocrisy: An open letter from a Muslim woman
> 
> Thank you to brave Nadiya Al-Noor for speaking out against hypocrisy in her Muslim community.
> 
> "Let me tell you something. Stabbing pregnant women in the stomach is not “resistance.” Shooting people at a cafe is not “resistance.” Driving your car into pedestrians is not “resistance.” Bombing a bus is not “resistance.” Breaking into a woman’s home and murdering her in front of her children is not “resistance.” And stabbing a little girl to death in the one place where she was supposed to be safe is certainly not “resistance.” Terrorism is not resistance. Terrorism is an unjustifiable crime."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About this article
> 
> BLOGS.TIMESOFISRAEL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit.
> 
> Let’s hope this woman is not murdered by Arabs-Moslems to save someone’s “honor”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing land and killing people when they object is not self defense.
Click to expand...


You obviously have a difficult time without a handy YouTube video to cut and paste. Have you considered listening to the intentions of your co-religionists attempting to invade Israel?


----------



## Hollie

So the angry, kuffar-hating, brutish ideology of Islamism will exploit wildlife to promote its goals.  



Horrific animal abuse by Palestinian terrorists:

StandWithUs

Using kites with firebombs attached wasn't enough - now Palestinian terrorists have tied explosive materials to falcons and sending them into Israel, torturing them to death.

More than 1,000 arson fires have been caused by incendiary materials flown from Gaza into Israel, causing damage to over 30,000 dunams of land.

Image Credit: COGAT - Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> So the angry, kuffar-hating, brutish ideology of Islamism will exploit wildlife to promote its goals.
> 
> 
> 
> Horrific animal abuse by Palestinian terrorists:
> 
> StandWithUs
> 
> Using kites with firebombs attached wasn't enough - now Palestinian terrorists have tied explosive materials to falcons and sending them into Israel, torturing them to death.
> 
> More than 1,000 arson fires have been caused by incendiary materials flown from Gaza into Israel, causing damage to over 30,000 dunams of land.
> 
> Image Credit: COGAT - Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories


Chickenfeed. No pun intended.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The spokesman for the Arab Workers' Union in UNRWA, Mohammed Shalabi told Wafa that UNRWA was delaying the opening of the new school year, causing parents to register their kids in other schools.

He noted the number of students in UNRWA schools declined by 5,000 students during the past five years.

Which brings up a basic question:

If the parents have other options besides UNRWA schools, then why does the world need to finance UNRWA schools in the territories?

(full article online)

UNRWA losing thousands of students to other schools? Then who needs @UNRWA? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Richard Goldstone writes that Israeli military investigations have revealed that civilians were not targeted as a matter of policy

(full article online)

Judge Goldstone expresses regrets about his report into Gaza war

------------
Judge Goldstone takes it back


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the angry, kuffar-hating, brutish ideology of Islamism will exploit wildlife to promote its goals.
> 
> 
> 
> Horrific animal abuse by Palestinian terrorists:
> 
> StandWithUs
> 
> Using kites with firebombs attached wasn't enough - now Palestinian terrorists have tied explosive materials to falcons and sending them into Israel, torturing them to death.
> 
> More than 1,000 arson fires have been caused by incendiary materials flown from Gaza into Israel, causing damage to over 30,000 dunams of land.
> 
> Image Credit: COGAT - Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed. No pun intended.
Click to expand...


Another of your pointless YouTube cartoons.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Is this a good opportunity for Israel and Egypt to get together and put an end to the hell that is Gaza?  And to Hamas? ]

Earlier on Monday, Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman’s office said Israel will further limit the flow of goods into the Gaza Strip in response to the continued airborne arson attacks emanating from the coastal enclave.

Between Tuesday and Sunday, no fuel will enter Gaza through the Kerem Shalom. The entry of food and medicine will continue, but will require explicit permission from Israel. Additionally, Gaza fishermen will only be allowed to venture three kilometers (1.8 miles) into the Mediterranean Sea, down from the current six kilometers (3.7 miles).

Liberman’s office said restrictions were toughened due to “continued terror attempts” by Hamas, which is allowing, encouraging and participating in flying incendiary devices and bombs into Israel with balloons and kites.

(full article online)

Hamas warns Israel of ‘dangerous consequences’ over Gaza crossing closure


----------



## Hollie

The IDF has released footage of some major islsmic terrorist beatdown. 



It’s sadly comical that Arabs-Moslems are forever complaining about being “oppressed” by external factors. When people elect the very oppressors they eventually claim are oppressing them, one has to wonder about the motives for such behavior.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Sixties Fan said:


> Not only that, but it means asking some uncomfortable questions about why Sirhan is regarded a hero among the Palestinians. During his trial, The Los Angeles Times reported that the PLO distributed posters throughout Beirut with a photo of Sirhan, a drawing of a Palestinian with a rifle, and the headline: “Sirhan Bishara Sirhan: a Commando, Not an Assassin.”
> 
> Yes, that’s the same PLO that the United Nations, the news media, and the State Department keep telling us is moderate and reasonable, and gave up terrorism. If so, why does the PLO consider terrorists like Sirhan to be heroes? And why have so many sympathetic articles about Sirhan appeared in the Palestinian press? Those are not the kinds of questions that CNN or “Morning Joe” want to talk about.
> 
> At least 144 American citizens have been murdered by Palestinian Arabs since the 1960s. Robert F. Kennedy was the first.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Covering Up Robert Kennedy’s Palestinian Murderer



CNN's series, "1968: The Year That Changed America" touches on the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy without mentioning that he was killed at the hand of Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan yet on the very same program does not hold back on mentioning the name of James Earl Ray, the man who assassinated Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

MSNBC's daily program, "Morning Joe" also revisited Robert F Kennedy's assassination but like CNN deliberately omitted the mention of the Palestinian assassin Sirhan Sirhan.

See a pattern here?  CNN and MSNBC are hostile to Israel and cannot be relied on to be objective on the Israel-Arab Palestinian conflict!


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The spokesman for the Arab Workers' Union in UNRWA, Mohammed Shalabi told Wafa that UNRWA was delaying the opening of the new school year, causing parents to register their kids in other schools.
> 
> He noted the number of students in UNRWA schools declined by 5,000 students during the past five years.
> 
> Which brings up a basic question:
> 
> If the parents have other options besides UNRWA schools, then why does the world need to finance UNRWA schools in the territories?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA losing thousands of students to other schools? Then who needs @UNRWA? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Its remarkably difficult to find up to date information on the education system in Gaza.  It does appear that there is a shortage of about 250 schools.  The shortage appears to be caused by the high birthrate, relatively low infant mortality.  51% of the Gaza population is 18 or under.  

So why is it, exactly, that they are building tunnels instead of schools for their children?  Oh yeah, its the Gaza Mentality.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→   Ria_Longhorn, et al,

OK, let's not make connections where there are none.



Ria_Longhorn said:


> See a pattern here?  CNN and MSNBC are hostile to Israel and cannot be relied on to be objective on the Israel-Arab Palestinian conflict!


*(COMMENT)*

Based on the available Open Source Data, there is no credible information that directly ties Sirhan Sirhan to any Hostile Arab Palestinian threat _(domestic or foreign)_ organization _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_.  Nor is there any Open Source Data to suggest that a national or international Muslim or Islamic organization _(state or non-state in origin)_ encouraged, incited or persuaded Sirhan Sirhan to carry out the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.

All news organizations, distributors, and outlets are bias; and many are inherently misleading.  But when Robert F. Kennedy was killed (5 June '68), on the anniversary of the Six Day War (started 5 June '67), no connection was made through Open Source Data to suggest other than what we know today.

I don't believe in coincidence on matters of political intrigue and murder.  It is more likely the case that the Regional Arab League governments tied more significance to the dates than did the American.  And that Egypt was making provocative military maneuvers to cause the on-set of hostilities to correspond to that date in history.

But to inject the "Palestinian" association _(althought it is true)_ might plant the seed that Sirhan Sirhan was the tool of some Arab Palestinian conspiracy is manipulative and misleading, knowing that many in the public would jump to an unsubstantiated conclusion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas warns Israel of ‘dangerous consequences’ over Gaza crossing closure



"Now, you open that crossing right away or we'll burn it down again!"

or

"Now, you open that crossing or we'll have to start a war where 2000 of our people die.  And then you'll be sorry!"


----------



## Hollie

COMMENTARY: UK Taxpayers Sponsor Palestinian Terror

As support for the Palestinian cause drops off even in the Arab world, news that Australia has cut a $7 million ‘lifeline’ to a death-cult is welcome indeed.






Maybe it’s also time for Britain to get real – especially in the wake of the barely reported stoning of Prince William’s vehicle – and acknowledge the need to stop encouraging terror with taxpayers’ money.

Australia has decided to discontinue direct aid to the Palestinian Authority because it suspects the cash is freeing up funds used to back political violence. And we have recently learnt that the UK gave £20 million in aid to Palestinian schools, where they teach children about Jihad (holy war) and martyrdom.

A report by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education reveals that the PA school curriculum “utilizes a variety of tools to convince children – mostly boys – to risk their lives and die as martyrs”.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Daniel Dvash, 23, lived most of his life as Nidal. He owes his return to Judaism to the Lehava organization, and the process gained momentum thanks to one Facebook post.

"At the age of five-and-a-half, my mother, who was a Jew, died. I was living as an Arab in Jabel Mukaber. At the age of 18 I was working in renovations and discovered I was also a Jew like my mother. This happened when one of the workers put on _tefillin_ every morning. I asked him what it was and he explained to me. I told him my mother was Jewish and I have no idea about her religion, and he explained to me that if my mother is Jewish then I'm also a Jew. It was hard for me to accept. I was a devout Muslim who prayed five prayers a day and fasted in Ramadan.

(full article online)

From Arab village to yeshiva thanks to Facebook


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jerusalem is, as far as I can tell, the only city in history with a "Grand Mufti."

The current person to hold that political position is Sheikh Muhammad Hussein. He was appointed to that position by Mahmoud Abbas and he often makes statements that go completely against the PA's official positions presented to the West, like his fatwa that all of Israel should "liberated."

His incitement continues, as Hussein is now claiming that Israel's archaeological digs in the vicinity of the Temple Mount are really an attempt to destroy and "Judaize" the Umayyad palaces there.

Yet those Umayyad palaces were discovered by Israeli archaeologists in the 1970s. They have been protected by Israel. The only reason the Mufti even knows those palaces ever existed was because  Israel values all archaeology, including that which preserves Muslim heritage.


(full article online)

Jerusalem's Mufti charges Israel with wanting to destroy Islamic palaces that Israel discovered and protected to begin with ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Monday night the joint "Gunpowder/Resistance" festival was held simultaneously and simulcast between Tehran and Gaza City.

Leaders of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terror groups gathered in the Commodore Hotel in Gaza City to give speeches, celebrate and encourage terror ("resistance") and denounce Israel.

Ironically, the title of the conference was "Resistance is not Terror."





(full article online)

Iran and Palestinian jihadists hold a joint festival celebrating Palestinian terror ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

What I find remarkable is even when islamic terrorists spell out their intentions in explicit detail, there is still a reluctance to believe them,* 



PA: Palestinians have a “right” to kill Israelis*, PA will continue to pay the prisoners’ salaries
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
July 17, 2018 " 

(Emphasis above is mine ed.)

PA: Palestinians have a “right” to kill Israelis, PA will continue to pay the prisoners’ salaries - PMW Bulletins



 

*Palestinians have a "right" to kill Israelis*

*PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Spokesman Hassan Abd Rabbo:*
"The [Israeli] legislation... targets the history of our people's struggle and its *right to resist the occupation"*

*PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs:*
"The Martyrs and prisoners are the symbol of the struggle, freedom fighters, and fighters of independence,* and not murderers and terrorists as the occupation defines them*"

*PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Director Issa Karake:*
*"[Israel] wants to define the Palestinian people's entire struggle as a "crime" and those who have resisted the occupation as 'criminals.' This is the resistance of our Palestinian people, which is guaranteed by the international and humanitarian laws"* 

*PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs:*
*"The PA [will] not submit to racist laws like these, whose goal is to prevent the Palestinian people's legitimate resistance"*

*PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Director Issa Karake:*
*"The president [Abbas is] signing on the status of the prisoners as legitimate prisoners of war"*

*Columnist in the official PA daily:*
*"The salaries of the prisoners of freedom are a right that is guaranteed to them, and colonialist Israel, the US, and anyone else cannot under any circumstances be allowed to harm this right, which is guaranteed to them as freedom fighters according to the Palestinian national criteria and laws and international [criteria]..."*


----------



## Sixties Fan

While most of the donors have been Israeli Jews, the campaign has also received contributions from Arabs, including Palestinian Authority residents and Gazans.

Several days ago, _Yediot Ahronot_ reported, a Gaza businessman donated thousands of shekels towards the construction of the synagogue in Shmerling’s memory. The donor says he became acquainted with Shmerling through their business dealings.

“Reuven had a totally pure heart – nothing bad in it at all,” said the Gaza donor, who asked that his name not be published. He loved everyone. I met him in the 1990s. Back then, I was importing goods from China, and we worked together. He was a good man. What they did to him was just shocking. If there were more people like Reuven, we’d already have peace.”

Shmerling’s relatives say they have received calls from a number of other Arabs looking to donate and extend their condolences, including residents of Kafr Qasim and the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Why are Gaza Arabs paying for a settlement synagogue?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The frightening life that children of radical Islam are forced into


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dozens of olive trees belonging to a Yitzhar resident were damaged and burned after arson committed by Arabs from 'Asira al-Qibliya at around 1:00 pm last night.

The local fire brigade managed to control the flames that quickly climbed toward houses in the Jewish village, but discovered dozens of trees in the orchard burned in the fire. Damage was also caused to agricultural equipment in the area. Additionally, Arabs threw stones at an IDF force and local firefighters during the fire.

Yitzhar is located on an 810 meters-high hill with five Arab villages located a few hundred meters below surrounding the community. Due to the topography, Yitzhar residents suffer from dozens of arson attacks by Arabs from the bottom of the mountain every summer season.

(full article online)

Arabs set fire to dozens of trees in Yitzhar


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Dozens of olive trees belonging to a Yitzhar resident were damaged and burned after arson committed by Arabs from 'Asira al-Qibliya at around 1:00 pm last night.
> 
> The local fire brigade managed to control the flames that quickly climbed toward houses in the Jewish village, but discovered dozens of trees in the orchard burned in the fire. Damage was also caused to agricultural equipment in the area. Additionally, Arabs threw stones at an IDF force and local firefighters during the fire.
> 
> Yitzhar is located on an 810 meters-high hill with five Arab villages located a few hundred meters below surrounding the community. Due to the topography, Yitzhar residents suffer from dozens of arson attacks by Arabs from the bottom of the mountain every summer season.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arabs set fire to dozens of trees in Yitzhar



What?  Just a little "non-violent resistance".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What I find remarkable is even when islamic terrorists spell out their intentions in explicit detail, there is still a reluctance to believe them,*
> 
> 
> 
> PA: Palestinians have a “right” to kill Israelis*, PA will continue to pay the prisoners’ salaries
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> July 17, 2018 "
> 
> (Emphasis above is mine ed.)
> 
> PA: Palestinians have a “right” to kill Israelis, PA will continue to pay the prisoners’ salaries - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians have a "right" to kill Israelis*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Spokesman Hassan Abd Rabbo:*
> "The [Israeli] legislation... targets the history of our people's struggle and its *right to resist the occupation"*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs:*
> "The Martyrs and prisoners are the symbol of the struggle, freedom fighters, and fighters of independence,* and not murderers and terrorists as the occupation defines them*"
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Director Issa Karake:*
> *"[Israel] wants to define the Palestinian people's entire struggle as a "crime" and those who have resisted the occupation as 'criminals.' This is the resistance of our Palestinian people, which is guaranteed by the international and humanitarian laws"*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs:*
> *"The PA [will] not submit to racist laws like these, whose goal is to prevent the Palestinian people's legitimate resistance"*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Director Issa Karake:*
> *"The president [Abbas is] signing on the status of the prisoners as legitimate prisoners of war"*
> 
> *Columnist in the official PA daily:*
> *"The salaries of the prisoners of freedom are a right that is guaranteed to them, and colonialist Israel, the US, and anyone else cannot under any circumstances be allowed to harm this right, which is guaranteed to them as freedom fighters according to the Palestinian national criteria and laws and international [criteria]..."*





Hollie said:


> "[Israel] wants to define the Palestinian people's entire struggle as a "crime" and those who have resisted the occupation as 'criminals.' This is the resistance of our Palestinian people, which is guaranteed by the international and humanitarian laws"


----------



## Sixties Fan

The mufti's position parallels that of a US Supreme Court judge. If the mufti issues a legal opinion or religious decree, his people and leaders are expected to abide by it.


With the new fatwa, Abbas can go to President Trump and other world leaders and tell them, "I would truly like to make peace with the Jews; however, I am prevented from doing so by this fatwa, which bans Muslims from doing real estate transactions with Jews. Sorry!"


One can only imagine the response of the international community had the Chief Rabbi of Israel issued a decree banning Jews from doing business with Muslims. But in the instance of the Palestinian mufti and his superiors in Ramallah, everything seems to be fine -- once again, the international community turns a blind eye to the Palestinian leaders' apartheid and their terrorizing of their own people.

(full article online)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Dozens of olive trees belonging to a Yitzhar resident were damaged and burned after arson committed by Arabs from 'Asira al-Qibliya at around 1:00 pm last night.
> 
> The local fire brigade managed to control the flames that quickly climbed toward houses in the Jewish village, but discovered dozens of trees in the orchard burned in the fire. Damage was also caused to agricultural equipment in the area. Additionally, Arabs threw stones at an IDF force and local firefighters during the fire.
> 
> Yitzhar is located on an 810 meters-high hill with five Arab villages located a few hundred meters below surrounding the community. Due to the topography, Yitzhar residents suffer from dozens of arson attacks by Arabs from the bottom of the mountain every summer season.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arabs set fire to dozens of trees in Yitzhar


Is Yitzhar an illegal settlement?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find remarkable is even when islamic terrorists spell out their intentions in explicit detail, there is still a reluctance to believe them,*
> 
> 
> 
> PA: Palestinians have a “right” to kill Israelis*, PA will continue to pay the prisoners’ salaries
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> July 17, 2018 "
> 
> (Emphasis above is mine ed.)
> 
> PA: Palestinians have a “right” to kill Israelis, PA will continue to pay the prisoners’ salaries - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians have a "right" to kill Israelis*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Spokesman Hassan Abd Rabbo:*
> "The [Israeli] legislation... targets the history of our people's struggle and its *right to resist the occupation"*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs:*
> "The Martyrs and prisoners are the symbol of the struggle, freedom fighters, and fighters of independence,* and not murderers and terrorists as the occupation defines them*"
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Director Issa Karake:*
> *"[Israel] wants to define the Palestinian people's entire struggle as a "crime" and those who have resisted the occupation as 'criminals.' This is the resistance of our Palestinian people, which is guaranteed by the international and humanitarian laws"*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs:*
> *"The PA [will] not submit to racist laws like these, whose goal is to prevent the Palestinian people's legitimate resistance"*
> 
> *PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Director Issa Karake:*
> *"The president [Abbas is] signing on the status of the prisoners as legitimate prisoners of war"*
> 
> *Columnist in the official PA daily:*
> *"The salaries of the prisoners of freedom are a right that is guaranteed to them, and colonialist Israel, the US, and anyone else cannot under any circumstances be allowed to harm this right, which is guaranteed to them as freedom fighters according to the Palestinian national criteria and laws and international [criteria]..."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "[Israel] wants to define the Palestinian people's entire struggle as a "crime" and those who have resisted the occupation as 'criminals.' This is the resistance of our Palestinian people, which is guaranteed by the international and humanitarian laws"
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Your characterization of Islamic terrorism as “resistance” is another of the frauds you perpetuate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

US report: Only 20,000 Palestinian 'refugees' in the world, not 5.1 million


----------



## Sixties Fan

Cheering Palestinians hang and burn effigy of Donald Trump - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

As long as the Palestinians do not stop their industry of death, the EU must freeze any aid it gives them. The Mayor of Frankfurt, Germany, in a special column

(full article online)

Europe's Response to Terrorism Must be a Resolute Stand Alongside Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists in Gaza fire projectiles at Israeli towns in western Negev. IDF responds with tank fire on Hamas positions in Gaza.

(full article online)

IDF opens fire on Hamas post after mortars land near Negev town


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Iranian general did not offer to build the Palestinians a hospital or a school. Nor did he offer to provide financial aid to create projects that would give jobs to unemployed Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. His message to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip: Iran will give you as much money and weapons as you need as long as you are committed to the jihad (holy war) against Israel and the "big Satan," the US.


The same Hamas that is telling UN representatives that it wants to improve the living conditions of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip is the one that is reaching out its hand to Iran to receive funds and weapons.


Now, someone needs to step in and stop Iran from setting foot in the Gaza Strip and using the Palestinians as cannon fodder in Tehran's campaign against the US and Israel. How might someone do that? It is not so complicated. Any international aid to the Gaza Strip must be conditioned on ending Iran's destructive effort to recruit Palestinians groups as its soldiers. It is that simple.

(full article online)

Why Iran Supports Palestinian Terror Groups


----------



## Hollie

More often than not, I’m left to shrug my shoulders and ask “did these loons really publish that”? And, more often than not, yes, they did.

The sheer idiosy that these loons project is a wonder to behold. In the latest rant to gush from the PA, they’re railing against _The Zionists_™️ In connection with some complaint about a propaganda campaign directed against the Islamic terrorist leadership. Super!

These knuckleheads obviously can’t connect the dots by drawing a straight line between their loopy rants and the posting of those rants on the islamic terrorist facebook pages. 
*


PA TV verbally attacks PMW: *
* "[PMW is] an extremist Zionist NGO *
*with teams that work around the clock... *
*[and] runs propaganda campaigns *
*against the Palestinian leadership"

PA TV verbally attacks PMW: "PMW is an extremist Zionist NGO with teams that work around the clock"  - PMW Bulletins*


*Damaged by many PMW reports, PA TV launched a verbal attack against PMW*

*PA TV rebroadcast a translated feature story from Israeli TV about PMW and its international impact, as "proof" that PMW is running "propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership"*
By Itamar Marcus

The Palestinian Authority is once again verbally attacking Palestinian Media Watch for the damage PMW is causing them in Israel and internationally. This time, PA TV told its viewers that PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
















In describing what PMW does to collect its material, they said "former intelligence officers in the occupation army who work at PMW... *work around the clock in order to monitor the Palestinian media outlets*... They even watch cooking programs on PA TV."

Earlier this year the PA Ministry of Information attacked PMW saying the "*wild incitement campaign that Palestinian Media Watch is waging against the radio station The Voice of Palestine, projects on the other*." The Information Ministry said "*the repeated claims of the Israeli center [PMW] are part of the deceptive Zionist discourse*."
[PA Ministry of Information website, Jan. 24, 2018, emphasis added]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."


We already knew that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
> 
> 
> 
> We already knew that.
Click to expand...


Indeed, there’s very little you know. It’s not surprising that you didn’t know Pal Media Watch links directly to the Facebook page of the Islamic terrorist “Pal’istanians”. How is it a “propaganda campaign” when Pal Media Watch links directly to the public Facebook contents of Islamic terrorists?

Indeed, you seem incensed that anyone would dare to criticize or critique the putrid bile that is posted by your heroes. However, why would you be surprised that others would comment on the nonsense claims and incitement to violence that is such a part of your politico-religious ideology?

Indeed, your hurt feelings are yours to reconcile.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
> 
> 
> 
> We already knew that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, there’s very little you know. It’s not surprising that you didn’t know Pal Media Watch links directly to the Facebook page of the Islamic terrorist “Pal’istanians”. How is it a “propaganda campaign” when Pal Media Watch links directly to the public Facebook contents of Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Indeed, you seem incensed that anyone would dare to criticize or critique the putrid bile that is posted by your heroes. However, why would you be surprised that others would comment on the nonsense claims and incitement to violence that is such a part of your politico-religious ideology?
> 
> Indeed, your hurt feelings are yours to reconcile.
Click to expand...

I guess you don't understand how they work.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
> 
> 
> 
> We already knew that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, there’s very little you know. It’s not surprising that you didn’t know Pal Media Watch links directly to the Facebook page of the Islamic terrorist “Pal’istanians”. How is it a “propaganda campaign” when Pal Media Watch links directly to the public Facebook contents of Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Indeed, you seem incensed that anyone would dare to criticize or critique the putrid bile that is posted by your heroes. However, why would you be surprised that others would comment on the nonsense claims and incitement to violence that is such a part of your politico-religious ideology?
> 
> Indeed, your hurt feelings are yours to reconcile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you don't understand how they work.
Click to expand...


Indeed, I explained to you how they work. What are you still befuddled about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
> 
> 
> 
> We already knew that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, there’s very little you know. It’s not surprising that you didn’t know Pal Media Watch links directly to the Facebook page of the Islamic terrorist “Pal’istanians”. How is it a “propaganda campaign” when Pal Media Watch links directly to the public Facebook contents of Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Indeed, you seem incensed that anyone would dare to criticize or critique the putrid bile that is posted by your heroes. However, why would you be surprised that others would comment on the nonsense claims and incitement to violence that is such a part of your politico-religious ideology?
> 
> Indeed, your hurt feelings are yours to reconcile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you don't understand how they work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, I explained to you how they work. What are you still befuddled about?
Click to expand...

Nothing. I know how it works. It is classic propaganda.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
> 
> 
> 
> We already knew that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, there’s very little you know. It’s not surprising that you didn’t know Pal Media Watch links directly to the Facebook page of the Islamic terrorist “Pal’istanians”. How is it a “propaganda campaign” when Pal Media Watch links directly to the public Facebook contents of Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Indeed, you seem incensed that anyone would dare to criticize or critique the putrid bile that is posted by your heroes. However, why would you be surprised that others would comment on the nonsense claims and incitement to violence that is such a part of your politico-religious ideology?
> 
> Indeed, your hurt feelings are yours to reconcile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you don't understand how they work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, I explained to you how they work. What are you still befuddled about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing. I know haw it works. It is classic propaganda.
Click to expand...


Or in other words 'propaganda' is what You call facts that can't be contradicted.
 Classic case of _Palestinian Mentality._


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PMW "*is an extremist Zionist NGO*" that "*runs propaganda campaigns against the Palestinian leadership*."
> 
> 
> 
> We already knew that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, there’s very little you know. It’s not surprising that you didn’t know Pal Media Watch links directly to the Facebook page of the Islamic terrorist “Pal’istanians”. How is it a “propaganda campaign” when Pal Media Watch links directly to the public Facebook contents of Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Indeed, you seem incensed that anyone would dare to criticize or critique the putrid bile that is posted by your heroes. However, why would you be surprised that others would comment on the nonsense claims and incitement to violence that is such a part of your politico-religious ideology?
> 
> Indeed, your hurt feelings are yours to reconcile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you don't understand how they work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, I explained to you how they work. What are you still befuddled about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing. I know haw it works. It is classic propaganda.
Click to expand...


Indeed, your whining is the result of your hurt feelings. I can understand you get infuriated when your heroes are held accountable and criticized for their actions but your hurt feelings are the result of choices you make.

It’s really remarkable that you’re befuddled regarding the term “propaganda”. The glaring light of criticism on the statements made by your Islamic terrorist heroes is something you will need to come to terms with.

OR,

You might want to consider writing a strongly worded email to the UN demanding that Islamic terrorists have an entitlement to post on the kuffar invented social media sites but any criticism of that incitement is a violation of that most egregious crime of _Hurting Moslems’ Feelings™️_


----------



## Sixties Fan

They invented the Palestinian refugee, a creature like no other refugee, because Palestinian refugee status in hereditary. They established UNRWA, an agency whose charter – unlike all other refugee relief agencies ever – was not to resettle refugees, but rather to increase their number. And the West, which pays almost all of the bills of the UN, bought into it out of cowardice and lack of will to oppose the Arabs, who had all that oil, after all.

And so the “refugee camps,” which more and more became to resemble permanent neighborhoods, came into being in several nations and became breeding grounds for recruits to the multiplicity of Palestinian terror organizations – Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, DFLP, PFLP-GC, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Abu Nidal group, etc. Unemployed young Palestinian men flocked to these groups in order to lend purpose to their lives. The growth of anti-Israel and international terrorism since 1960 was caused to a great degree by the activities of these groups. Palestinian terrorists popularized airline hijacking and suicide bombing, leading directly to 9/11 and other atrocities. Thus was the West paid back for its investment.

But the Malthusian logic of the Palestinian refugee system has finally caught up with it. There are about 5.2 million Arabs with Palestinian refugee status today, and the West can’t afford any more to feed, house, clothe, and “educate” them. The power of Arab oil is diminishing. The US is sharply cutting what it gives UNRWA.

(full article online)

The perverse and vicious Palestinian “refugee” weapon | Abu Yehuda


----------



## Sixties Fan

ARTICLE 1
Palestine is part of the large Arab World, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab Nation. Arab Unity is an objective which the Palestinian People shall work to achieve.

ARTICLE 2
The Palestinian People are the source of all power, which shall be exercised through the legislative, executive, and judicial authorities, based on the principle of separation of powers, and in the manner set forth in this Basic Law.

ARTICLE 3
Jerusalem is the Capital of Palestine.

ARTICLE 4
Islam is the official religion in Palestine. Respect and sanctity of all other heavenly religions shall be maintained.
The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be the main source of legislation.
Arabic shall be the official language.

(full article online)

The Palestinian constitution says Palestine is Islamic and Arab, Jerusalem its capital, Arabic its official language. No one cares. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Press reports that about 60,000 people crossed the Allenby/King Hussein Bridge between Jordan and the West Bank last week.

30,718 people went to Jordan and  29,010 came the other direction, according to Palestinian police.

This was considered an average week, the statement said.

Palestinian police arrested 57 people on criminal charges for people crossing in both directions.

Israel has control over this and the other crossings to Jordan, and yet the fact that it allows so many people to freely move in both directions every week is at odds with the image that Palestinians and anti-Israel activists want to show the world.

For example, Gisha, the NGO that is concerned with freedom of movement for Palestinians, doesn't even publish statistics on how easily they can travel between the West Bank and Jordan on their Graphs page - only statistics about Gaza.

(full article online)

Meanwhile, 60,000 cross between the West Bank and Jordan every week ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestine Press reports that about 60,000 people crossed the Allenby/King Hussein Bridge between Jordan and the West Bank last week.
> 
> 30,718 people went to Jordan and  29,010 came the other direction, according to Palestinian police.
> 
> This was considered an average week, the statement said.
> 
> Palestinian police arrested 57 people on criminal charges for people crossing in both directions.
> 
> Israel has control over this and the other crossings to Jordan, and yet the fact that it allows so many people to freely move in both directions every week is at odds with the image that Palestinians and anti-Israel activists want to show the world.
> 
> For example, Gisha, the NGO that is concerned with freedom of movement for Palestinians, doesn't even publish statistics on how easily they can travel between the West Bank and Jordan on their Graphs page - only statistics about Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meanwhile, 60,000 cross between the West Bank and Jordan every week ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


So, who is on their "black list?" How many?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Press reports that about 60,000 people crossed the Allenby/King Hussein Bridge between Jordan and the West Bank last week.
> 
> 30,718 people went to Jordan and  29,010 came the other direction, according to Palestinian police.
> 
> This was considered an average week, the statement said.
> 
> Palestinian police arrested 57 people on criminal charges for people crossing in both directions.
> 
> Israel has control over this and the other crossings to Jordan, and yet the fact that it allows so many people to freely move in both directions every week is at odds with the image that Palestinians and anti-Israel activists want to show the world.
> 
> For example, Gisha, the NGO that is concerned with freedom of movement for Palestinians, doesn't even publish statistics on how easily they can travel between the West Bank and Jordan on their Graphs page - only statistics about Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meanwhile, 60,000 cross between the West Bank and Jordan every week ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> So, who is on their "black list?" How many?
Click to expand...


At least 57.


"Palestinian police arrested 57 people on criminal charges for people crossing in both directions."


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*

**
**
*On the black list. Why?*


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*


[It is like you can not google for yourself?
As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]

Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.

Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”

Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”

Friends of Sabeel – North America


[  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> [It is like you can not google for yourself?
> As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.
> 
> Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”
> 
> Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]
Click to expand...

I knew that already. So?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> [It is like you can not google for yourself?
> As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.
> 
> Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”
> 
> Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew that already. So?
Click to expand...

So, you are for a One State solution.  An Arab Muslim one.

We are not.

And it is going to stay in the NOT department


----------



## P F Tinmore

You are critiquing the videos before watching them. Typical Zionist bullshit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Former interior minister Fathi Hammad says 'by 2022 we will be rid of them' and then the caliphate can be established

(full article online)

Senior Hamas member calls for ridding ‘Palestine of filth of the Jews’


----------



## P F Tinmore

The *monster* that Israel will not allow in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You are critiquing the videos before watching them. Typical Zionist bullshit.



Do you really think anyone is interested in your Press TV videos?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Breaking News]

At least three terrorists have been killed, according to the report. IDF tanks are returning fire.

“In the wake of IDF gunfire during the riots in the southern Gaza Strip, the IDF attacked a number of terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip using aircraft and tanks, the IDF Spokesperson said in a statement.

(full article online)

IDF, Gaza Exchanging Fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

U.S. consulate cancels visit to Nablus following Palestinian protests


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> [It is like you can not google for yourself?
> As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.
> 
> Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”
> 
> Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> [It is like you can not google for yourself?
> As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.
> 
> Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”
> 
> Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oh, the poor man  

He has clearly failed to do his homework and feel sorry for all the Jews who were attacked, murdered, raped, mutilated, or expelled by force by the Muslim and Christian Arabs from 1920 to 1948, from Gaza to TranJordan.


Let us all cry for his horrible experience as a child, brought up by that Muslim of all Muslims.......Al- Husseini and his clan of "We are not accepting Jews having sovereignty over their own ancient homeland......EVER "


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> U.S. consulate cancels visit to Nablus following Palestinian protests


Cool. 

They are part of the occupation. The Palestinians do not want them there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. consulate cancels visit to Nablus following Palestinian protests
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.
> 
> They are part of the occupation. The Palestinians do not want them there.
Click to expand...

The "Palestinians" only want all of Israel for themselves with the Jews all gone from their own ancient homeland.

Oh, the sweethearts!!   Bless their loving hearts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> [It is like you can not google for yourself?
> As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.
> 
> Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”
> 
> Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, the poor man
> 
> He has clearly failed to do his homework and feel sorry for all the Jews who were attacked, murdered, raped, mutilated, or expelled by force by the Muslim and Christian Arabs from 1920 to 1948, from Gaza to TranJordan.
> 
> 
> Let us all cry for his horrible experience as a child, brought up by that Muslim of all Muslims.......Al- Husseini and his clan of "We are not accepting Jews having sovereignty over their own ancient homeland......EVER "
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*
> 
> **
> **
> *On the black list. Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> [It is like you can not google for yourself?
> As if you have no idea as to why this group would be on the "Black list"?]
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America (FOSNA) is the U.S.-based affiliate of the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Palestinian Christian organization based in Jerusalem. FOSNA serves as the “voice for Palestinian Christians” against Israel’s policies and has been a driving force behind various Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns against Israel, including those initiated by mainline Protestant churches in the U.S.
> 
> Sabeel, FOSNA’s parent organization, was founded in 1990 by Reverend Naim Ateek, a Palestinian Christian theologian. Ateek is fiercely critical of Israeli policy and in recent years has begun privately advocating for a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite Sabeel’s stated support for a “just peace based on two states.”
> 
> Ateek, along with several other Palestinian theologians, coined and developed what they describe as “Palestinian liberation theology” in the late 1980s. Based on the premise that the Bible’s explicit descriptions of the land of Israel as belonging to the Jewish people must be repudiated and redefined, this theology reinterprets those descriptions in an attempt to bolster the legitimacy of the Palestinian position and disavow Zionism. Ateek has claimed that the notion that the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people is “bad theology” and that the establishment of Israel is a “relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.”
> 
> Friends of Sabeel – North America
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, Palestinian Christians, just like the Palestinian Muslims....just dreaming of a world without Israel ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, the poor man
> 
> He has clearly failed to do his homework and feel sorry for all the Jews who were attacked, murdered, raped, mutilated, or expelled by force by the Muslim and Christian Arabs from 1920 to 1948, from Gaza to TranJordan.
> 
> 
> Let us all cry for his horrible experience as a child, brought up by that Muslim of all Muslims.......Al- Husseini and his clan of "We are not accepting Jews having sovereignty over their own ancient homeland......EVER "
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...

You forget all the stupid stuff you post.
Beware of what you ask for


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. consulate cancels visit to Nablus following Palestinian protests
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.
> 
> They are part of the occupation. The Palestinians do not want them there.
Click to expand...


Its so cute that you have assigned yourself as the spokes-turban for Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians".

The Arabs-Moslems sure do like those kuffar welfare dollars. You might want to suggest that they do the right thing and refund the welfare fraud money they took from us here in the _Great Satan _during the last few years_. _I would definitely prefer that we stop any more payments supporting "Pal'istanian" welfare cheats and let them have one more reason to despise us. They can do so without us paying them bundles of our welfare money.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jordanian lawmaker Huda Etoom tells parliament of late mother's desire to be a suicide bomber among 'Zionist Jews,' July 17, 2018 (Screenshot via MEMRI)

(full article online)

Jordanian MP praises late mother’s wish to blow herself up among ‘Zionist Jews’


----------



## Hollie

Pal Media Watch has a really good article that addresses the pathology afflicting the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians".

In addition to the usual glorification surrounding the infliction death and destruction that these retrogrades are so anxious to attribute as noble and "islamic", they have managed to plumb new depths of the really vile.

It's quite telling that literally everything, including every element of the natural world, is available for destruction and ruin to further Islamist ideology.
*

Palestinian "Children's Games"

"Children's Games" - only in the PA!!  - PMW Bulletins*

*PA Government:
Flaming arson kites are "children's games" 
Palestinians launching them are "peaceful protesters"*

*The Palestinian "children's games" have burned 20 sq. km. of nature reserves and natural forests*
*The Palestinian "children's games" have killed thousands of wildlife, including foxes, jackals, tortoises, birds, lizards, rodents, reptiles, and more*
_*One of 500 Palestinian "children's games"*_





[Channel 20, June 4, 2018]

By Itamar Marcus



*PA Government Spokesman: *
_"*A children's game such as kites (i.e., flaming arson-kites) used by peaceful protesters..." *_[Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 22, 2018]


_*These turtles are two of the wildlife 
killed by Palestinians playing their new "children's game"*_
*



*
[Photo by Mendy Rizel, Rotter.net, June 29, 2018]

_*According to Palestinian "children's game" rules  
players may catch a beautiful falcon like this...



*_
[Andreas Trepte, www.photo-natur.de]

_*and attach a flaming bomb to its wings.
 l
The falcon is then sent to fly from Gaza to Israel 
where it falls to its death, blackening trees, like this...








*_[Photos: Israel's Nature and Parks Authority]


_* A "peaceful" Palestinian "child" 
prepares to take his turn in the "children's game" 
of burning nature reserves and killing wildlife in Israel*_





[World Jewish Congress Video, YouTube]

_*Palestinian "children" preparing for their turns
 in the "children's game"*_





[World Jewish Congress Video, YouTube]

*"Peaceful" Palestinians playing their new "children's game" have started over 500 fires, which have burned:*

*11 sq. km. of nature reserves *
*8.8 sq. km. of natural forests *
*Thousands of animals have been killed, including foxes, jackals, tortoises, lizards, rodents, reptiles, insects, and more.*
[Maariv, July 3, 2018]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Someone asked me to look at it, and it was immediately apparent to me that the woman had a knife - she is chasing a man at the start of the video and she is later seen with her arm up in a stabbing position in case anyone comes near. That would explain why someone was trying to chase her with a chair, to keep out of arm's length, and why someone tried to stop her with his car.

A little research and I found the story, from 2016,  with another angle of the video showing the woman (who is not old at all)  trying to stab multiple people in the street while they throw things at her to keep her at bay:

(full article online)

Newest libel: "Israelis chasing poor old Palestinian woman" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The way to deal with corrupt, hateful hostage-holders is not to give them billions and leave them in power in exchange for promises they will soon break. The way to deal with them is to get rid of them.

(full article online)

The Trump team is wrong about Hamas


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The way to deal with corrupt, hateful hostage-holders is not to give them billions and leave them in power in exchange for promises they will soon break. The way to deal with them is to get rid of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Trump team is wrong about Hamas



Yep.  Though, to be clear the end of the article clarifies that "getting rid of them" means dismantling their regime and re-educating and re-culturing them.  

Its just like dealing with a tantruming two-year-old.  You never give in to their demands.  You only calmly and consistently remind them that tantrums will not get them what they want.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Her recent Instagram post is certainly remarkable for someone who claims to be not only “progressive,” but who also wants to be considered as a credible opponent of antisemitism. 

Sarsour is surely fully aware that the Temple Mount is Judaism’s holiest site, but that – due to constant threats of Muslim violence – Jews are banned from praying anywhere on the huge platform, which measures about 150,000 square meters (37 acres). And as Sarsour surely also knows, the fanatically imposed Muslim supremacy restricts the access of all non-Muslims, including Christians for whom the site has significance in their faith.

So when Sarsour stands in front of the Dome of the Rock and says “God is GREAT all the time”, she is triumphantly joining the Muslim fanatics who make sure that only Muslims are allowed to do anything that can be construed as worship on the Temple Mount. Any Jew or Christian who would stand in front of the Dome of the Rock and would declare “God is GREAT all the time” would risk being attacked by a Muslim mob and/or being swiftly arrested by police.

That’s clearly perfectly fine with the “unapologetically Muslim” Linda Sarsour, who for good measure places the Dome of the Rock in “#Palestine”. With this she makes clear that the building that was erected on the orders of a Muslim emperor to obliterate the ruins of the Jewish Temple and prevent its rebuilding for all time should indeed continue to serve as “a symbol of the permanent supremacy and governance of Islam and the Muslims over the … Noble Sanctuary or al-Haram al-Sharif.”

I guess if you’re as “unapologetically Muslim” as Linda Sarsour, Islamic imperialism remains a most wonderful thing that – unlike all other imperialist regimes – should still be celebrated in the 21st century.

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour’s triumphalism on the Temple Mount (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas also praised some specific terrorists as martyrs, including Abdul Qadir Abu al-Fahm and Ishaq Maraghata both of whom were members of the PFLP in the 1960s and 1970s. A relative of a third "martyr," Ali al-Jaafari, spoke as well. It appears that the "martyrs" family payments continue on for decades after the deaths of the terrorists.

This adulation of terrorists is a basic part of the fabric of Palestinian life, and it is utterly incompatible with the idea of peace. To use Western funds to pay for this perversity is theft. To insist that the last penny of Western funds will go toward paying terrorists as a higher priority that food, schools or medicine is an indictment of the Palestinian leadership that is largely ignored by the world whose money is being spent.

(full article online)

Abbas says he will continue to pay terrorists and families "to the last penny" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abu Ziyad said that the US was trying to split the Arab world but that the Arabs haven't accepted the "deal of the century." He warned against listening to the Israeli analysis and its false and misleading statements, which act as a fifth column to strike unity in the Arab-Palestinian political situation.

The most telling part of Abu Ziyad's message, though, was his praise for Arab states - for refusing to give full rights to Palestinians!

He stressed that no Arab leader has agreed to settle the refugees, for 70 years.

This was a compliment!

The Arab League insisted back in the 1950s that every Arab be eligible for citizenship in every Arab state - except for Palestinians. A 1959 resolution, number 1547, confirmed earlier resolutions that Palestinians in Arab lands must retain their "nationality" as a principle. (Of course, they are denied becoming citizens of "Palestine" today.)

The so-called Palestinian National Liberation Movement headed by Mahmoud Abbas is praising Arab nations practicing apartheid against Palestinians.

(full article online)

Abbas' party spokesman proud that Arab countries treat Palestinians like crap ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Firefighters work to subdue fire in Gush Etzion community after Arabs throw Molotov cocktail. Residents evacuated, heavy damage to homes.

(full article online)

Fire from Molotov cocktail in Karmei Tzur


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ From the organization which allows dictatorships in High Places to dictate "resolutions" to the rest of the world ]


In first, ‘Palestine’ to head bloc of 134 nations at UN


----------



## Hollie

As the title of heading of the article delineates: 

“Your tax dollars at work”

Yes. As it has been for decades, the welfare fraud that the West helps to maintain is not much more than an organized fraud syndicate that feeds the bottomless pits of hate and retrogression that defines the two competing mini-caliphates run by competing Islamist dictators. 



https://nypost.com/2017/07/28/pales...ses-half-of-all-foreign-aid-to-reward-terror/











Your tax dollars at work: The Palestinian Authority is now using half of its foreign aid to reward terrorism.

The new PA budget boosts support to terrorists in prison by 13 percent and aid for the families of those killed “in the struggle against Zion” 4 percent, reports the Institute for Contemporary Affairs


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ About Israel ?   No.   About Jews !!  ]

Fathi Hamad, a hardliner in the terror group, tells thousands at funeral for members killed in Israeli airstrikes that directive is expression of solidarity with Al-Aqsa

(full article online)

Hamas official tells Gazans: Wherever you find a Zionist Jew, you must kill him


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Humans?  Nature?  What does the PA care about?  ]

Civil Administration's Supervision Unit Director Marco Ben Shabat referred to the environmental protection and nature conservation conference on the problem of the damage to the "conservation reserve" in the Judean Desert and the efforts to deal with it.

The conference was initiated by the Kfar Etzion Field School in cooperation with the Hebrew University, in which the issue of the nature reserve in the Judean Desert established under the Oslo Accords was raised and responsibility for its preservation was entrusted to the Palestinian Authority.

"Since 2017, we began work against quarries and damage to the Arugot and Tekoa area," said Ben Shabat, "We found six quarrying areas that caused irreparable damage to the mountain, and another 86 pirate quarrying areas. One must also take into account the fact that the waste dumped in the area near riverbanks and streams end up on rainy winter days at the Dead Sea."


(full article online)

Hundreds of illegal nature reserve buildings PA responsibility


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Oh, the choice of words....from the Nazi partners in crime.  One group is "occupying", and the Arabs do not have the guts to say who they are   ]

"The Prime Minister of the extremist Right in the occupation state has committed a complete war crime against the Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem, and particularly at the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

"The Prime Minister of the occupation state is engaging in bullying, arrogance, and Zionist 'ISIS-ism' against members of our people and its holy sites, both in Jerusalem and Hevron, by giving relief, support, and protection to the break-in campaigns of the extremist Jews into the holy sanctuaries in Jerusalem and Hevron, to the sanctuaries' defilement, and to the attack on the Muslim worshipers who have the right to manage their holy sites with complete freedom and without the interference of the tyrannical occupation authorities." (_Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, July 5, 2018_)

(full article online)

Abbas advisor: Jewish Israeli MPs 'defile' Muslim holy sites


----------



## Sixties Fan

Love of the Land: Gaza, A Continuing Tragedy of Errors - by Dr. Mordechai Kedar


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Gaza problem without a solution


----------



## Sixties Fan

Should We Carpet Bomb Gaza? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas' party says Israel is implementing its plan to destroy Al Aqsa, says all Jerusalem is Arab ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Just more of the depravity that is routine in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult. 




IDF: Children used in trap terror attack before deadly Gaza border violence

IDF: Children used in 'trap' terror attack before deadly Gaza border violence

Army says riot was deliberately staged by children on Gaza border to lure IDF troops to disperse the unrest and place them within range of a sniper; incident led to IDF attacking 7 Hamas posts and killing 3 Hamas terrorists, critically wounding another Palestinian.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Born to kill.  Kill Jews ]

The IDF announced on Thursday evening that the 17-year-old terrorist who carried out the stabbing attack in the town of Adam was a resident of the Palestinian Arab village of Kobar, the same village from which came the terrorist who carried out the massacre in Neve Tzuf and murdered three members of the Salomon family.

According to an initial investigation, the terrorist was able to jump over the security fence of the town and then stabbed the first two people he encountered.

A civilian who passed by and who noticed what was happening pulled out his personal weapon and shot the terrorist to death. Prior to that, a confrontation developed between the two in which the civilian was lightly injured.

The IDF Spokesperson said that the terrorist arrived with only a knife, without additional equipment or documents, and that the possibility that he had left a will beforehand on social media is being looked into.

(full article online)

Terrorist came from same town as murderer of Salomon family


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Only in Islam, only with the Palestinians ]

The fourth that died was not killed by Israel. He drowned.But Hamas says he's a martyr too, and that's good enough for me!






(full article online)

Photos of four dead Hamas terrorists killed yesterday ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ More Palestinian Heroes ]

As always with Palestinian terror attacks, the story isn't the universal praise that the murderers get from Palestinian society.

The story is that it is virtually impossible to find a single Palestinian voice - not one - who can publicly says that murdering a civilian father of two is wrong. Whether it is because of fear of retribution or because there are truly no moderate Palestinian voices, it doesn't matter. The lack of a single pushback to a horrible murder and to the canonization of the murderer says all you need to know about the disgusting pro-terror and antisemitic mindset of Palestinian society.

(full article online)

Palestinian teen murderer praised as hero ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

They later found and arrested an Arab-Israeli suspect from one of Jerusalem's Arab neighborhoods.

The suspect's arrest is expected to be extended on Friday.

The fire injured eight people, including a man, woman, their 14-year-old daughter, and their 9-year-old son. The four, who suffered from smoke inhalation and burns, were taken to Jerusalem's Shaare Zedek Hospital, with the father's condition deemed very serious and the others' serious.

(full article online)

Report: Arab set Jerusalem building on fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Just another Friday in the life of Muslims]

Violent clashes break out on Temple Mount after Muslim prayers


----------



## Hollie

Don't be surprised. It's "The Islam" and just more of the usual depraved behavior one has come to expect.
*

"Palestinian Authority TV Lauds President Abbas' Holocaust Denial Ph.D. Thesis, Terror Attacks Launched from Lebanon"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

_The official Palestinian Authority TV channel broadcast a bio-documentary on President Mahmoud Abbas. The show presented his Ph.D. dissertation from the Russian Institute of Oriental Studies, claiming that he had "exposed the relations between the global Zionist organization and the Nazi regime." In a book, published on the basis of the dissertation, Abbas claimed that the number of victims in the Holocaust was less than one million. The PA TV program included an interview with Dr. Khadr Al-Zufairi, a personal friend of Abbas, who praised his oratory skills and said that Abbas had presented 93 documents to prove his claims. Later in the show, the channel lauded Dalal Al-Mughrabi, who led the 1978 Coastal Road terrorist attack in Israel, and other terrorists who launched "heroic operations" from Lebanon, saying that they "embodied the epitome of martyrdom in occupied Palestine." The program aired on July 20, 2018._


_(full article online)_

Palestinian Authority TV Lauds President Abbas' Holocaust Denial PhD Thesis, Terror Attacks Launched From Lebanon


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over the past month, reports have circulated that members of the US House of Representatives’ Middle East Subcommittee have raised concerns that humanitarian aid is not reaching the Palestinian population, especially in Gaza.

In response, the Center for Near East Policy Research (CFNEPR) contacted 44 donor nations that contribute humanitarian aid to the Palestinian population in Gaza through UNRWA in order to determine if any had cut back on their donations. With the exception of the US, which has cut back on 20% of its donations, every single donor nation responded emphatically that they are not cutting one penny in aid to UNRWA.

Therefore, UNRWA currently has $1.2 billion to spend on the people supposed to benefit from its health, education, and welfare programs in Gaza, Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria.

Despite this, UNRWA proclaims to the media that it is bereft of resources to provide basic services. The organization’s media adviser Adnan Abu Hasna declared that UNRWA lacks basic food products and the people of Gaza “have nothing to lose,” adding “we don’t know yet whether school will open in the coming year. … We’re talking about 300,000 students who need to go to school.”

(full article online)

UNRWA Complains About Funding While Training Children to Wage War


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Another wasted life, from a wasted "hate the Jews" education, which comes with being born Muslim ]

Adam resident after terror attack: 'It could have been a killing spree'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Given that all Palestinian leaderships have called for a Palestinian state that will encompass and obliterate the state of Israel, it is not surprising that they cannot bear to accept any proposal that will give them only one small state (or two small states) in the territory allotted to them by the United Nations in 1947.


Re-imposition of Islamic _waqf_ law will not restore Spain, Portugal, Sicily, India, Greece and all the other states of the abandoned caliphal empires to Muslim rule, and it is futile to think that is nothing more than a fantasy.


A recent US report revealed that there are, it seems, actually no more than 20,000 Palestinian refugees in the world.


In the end, it is so-called pro-Palestinian activists such as Robert Fisk or writers for papers such as _The Independent_, _The Guardian_, or the _New York Times_ who do their utmost to persuade the world to favour Palestinian intransigence over offers of upgrading lives and international law.

(full article online)

Dignity for the Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

Some of the commanders of the Palestinian Authority security forces in the West Bank are “terrorizing” women and children, a former PA security chief said on Thursday.

Tawfik Tirawi, a former commander of the PA’s General Intelligence Service and member of the Fatah Central Committee, made the rare charge in a statement issued by his office.

(full article online)

Former PA intelligence chief: PA security 'terrorizing women, children'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two PFLP terrorists apparently blew themselves up this morning as they were attempting to attack Israel, according to the terror group.

"The two martyrs are Ayman Nafez al-Najjar, 24, and Muhannad Majid Hamouda, 24, who arrived at the Indonesian hospital in scattered pieces," said Ashraf al-Qudra, a spokesman for the Health Ministry in Gaza.

I do not recall the words "scattered pieces" being used before by the Gaza Health Ministry. It is almost poetic.

The PFLP said they were on a "combat mission" when they were "martyred."

(full article online)

Allahu akbar! 2 PFLP terrorists blow themselves up to bits ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border Police chase down pair from Nablus after they manage to make it several hundred feet into 'Seam Zone' with 2 Carlo-style machine guns

(full article online)

Two Palestinian teens caught sneaking into Israel with bag of guns


----------



## Sixties Fan

Undeterred: Haneen Zoabi, the Joint List and new political struggles


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

This morning's reports suggest the possibility that the terror in Adam involved an accomplice and that a "suspicious vehicle" was seen leaving the community shortly after the killing. Ma'an reports(again - only in Arabic for now) that three villagers have already been taken into Israeli custody this morning in Khobar and names them as Nasrallah Yousef Mishal, 17, his brother Mohammed Mishal, 21 and a 42-year-old *Barghouti *male named Khaldoun.

A Friday morning Arabic news report says the knifer's home is being prepared for demolition by the IDF. On that issue, bear in mind that the perpetually-insolvent Palestinian Authority's Rewards for Terror scheme will be providing lifetime incentive payments to the family of the dead killer.

*UPDATE* 3:00 pm Friday July 27, 2018: If you're familiar with the nauseating, agenda-driven editorial skills of the Ma'an people, you won't be surprised with how they approach the terrorist attack in their slow-to-arrive English-language report on last night's unspeakable savagery in Adam:

"_Israeli settler shoots, kills Palestinian teen after stabbing attack_" is the nauseating headline they came up with. In the body of the report, they quote Arab sources who say the boy came with an axe and that was what he used to attack his victims, and to carry out the murder of Yotam Ovadia.

And with Arab culture being flexible in the way names change form according to circumstances, they now call the killer Muhammad Tareq Youssef Abu Ayyush. Being cautious in their customary way, Ma'an's editors don't call the high-school-age killer a "martyr", at least not in this shabby Western-funded outfit's English-language version. But for the less delicate consumers of Ma'an's Arabic version, _martyr _is of course what they call him. Ma'an's editors know their readership and its predilections.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 27-Jul-18: A murderous Thursday night knifing attack in suburban Jerusalem; the killer, again, is a child


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza flotilla backers have history of Hamas support


----------



## Hollie

We keep reading about the brutal killings of and innocent people by _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_. Islamists scramble, on cue, to label the killers as heroes and the dead killers as "martyrs". Its an established trend that we should worry about. In addition to the fact that islamics dishonestly and euphemistically call the monsters who do this "martyrs" they also have a hackneyed script which they read from each time another Islamic Death Cultist commits an act of depravity. 

_Isolated incidents._ It seems to me that they're almost happening on a monthly, if not weekly, basis now. _Perpetrated by a tiny minority of extremists._ As far as I'm concerned, one is too many, and yeah, I guess _extremists_ is one way to describe these fiends. _Not the real Islam._ Wrong. Islam's scripture, literature, and history is horribly bloody from its inception up to yesterday. Designations like "civilian" and "noncombatant" are meaningless in Islamic holy war. 


Murderer of young father declared a “Martyr” by the PA and Fatah - PMW Bulletins

*Murderer of young father declared a “Martyr”
 by the PA and Fatah
*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik







_Yotam with his wife and children
(photo: Ynet)_
On Thursday, 17-year-old terrorist Muhammad Tareq Dar Yusuf murdered a 31- year-old Israeli father of two, Yotam Ovadia, and injured two others, before he was shot and killed. The very next day, both the Palestinian Authority and Fatah declared him a “Martyr” (_Shahid_).

By declaring the murderer a “Martyr”, the PA is saying that he did an exemplary act according to Islam, for which he will be rewarded in the afterlife by Allah. In addition, the PA will reward the terrorists’ family financially, as the PA does all families of so-called “Martyrs,” with a one-time grant of 6,000 shekels ($1,643) and a monthly allowance for life of 1,400 shekels ($383).

The official PA daily reported:

“A young man from Kubar died as a Martyr after stabbing three settlers north of occupied Jerusalem.”
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 27, 2018]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Calling on Israeli innovation !!  ]

Imprisoned Arab Terrorists Waste Millions Pouring Water Down the Drain


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Arabs are experts at hurting themselves, both literally and figuratively, and then blaming Israel for their pain.

A literal example comes from yesterday, when two PFLP terrorists blew themselves up, but Arabic media claimedthat Israel killed them. This has happened too many times to count - errant Hamas rockets killing Gaza children have been blamed on Israel by major news media and human rights organizations without any attempt to uncover the facts.

A figurative example of Palestinians knowingly hurting themselves in a way that they can blame Israel comes from this story today.

The "Supreme Fatwa Council in Palestine" issued a fatwa today prohibiting the participation of any Arab candidate in the upcoming Jerusalem municipal elections.

For Jerusalem Arabs, this means that they would have less influence and power within the Jerusalem political scene to push their (valid) agendas of improving infrastructure, educational resources and services to the Arab sections of the city.

They would be relying on Jewish politicians to push to provide services to their fellow Arabs.

And then, when politicians do what they normally do and work on behalf of their constituents (since there are not unlimited funds), the Arabs can point to the Jerusalem municipality for not doing enough for the Arab sector.

(full article online)

Palestiniian Arabs: Masters at the art of shooting themselves and blaming Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Shuts Hamas-Affiliated TV, Detains Manager, 4 Journalists


----------



## Sixties Fan

I cannot recall an official government video as transparently false and cynical as this one.

The Palestinian Authority issued a statement and video called "Office of the Prime Minister - Government Achievements in the Gaza Reconstruction Profile, 29 July 2018."

It looks at the rebuilding of Gaza done by international NGOs - and takes credit for it.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority, which has been strangling Gaza, takes credit for its reconstruction ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

For Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, the regular public schooling should be sized to include so-called "refugees." Treating them as different from other Palestinians is absurd and discriminatory. It is abhorrent that somewhere in the PA government, people are saying they don't have to educate hundreds of thousands because they get their education for free from UNRWA. It is the PA's responsibility, not the world's.

Similarly, in Jordan, the vast majority of Palestinians are citizens. Why on earth should the government of Jordan treat them like anything other than citizens?

In Syria and Lebanon, while there are obviously problems, children born in those countries should be able to access local education. Yet even if we say that UNRWA should provide education for them, they are a small percentage of the total number of children being taught for free by UNRWA.

It is way past time that we should consider the "UNRWA education is a human right" idea to be discarded as the lie it is. The budget shortfall would magically disappear without that false idea.

(full article online)

UNRWA keeps saying free education paid for by the world is a human right ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> For Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, the regular public schooling should be sized to include so-called "refugees." Treating them as different from other Palestinians is absurd and discriminatory. It is abhorrent that somewhere in the PA government, people are saying they don't have to educate hundreds of thousands because they get their education for free from UNRWA. It is the PA's responsibility, not the world's.
> 
> Similarly, in Jordan, the vast majority of Palestinians are citizens. Why on earth should the government of Jordan treat them like anything other than citizens?
> 
> In Syria and Lebanon, while there are obviously problems, children born in those countries should be able to access local education. Yet even if we say that UNRWA should provide education for them, they are a small percentage of the total number of children being taught for free by UNRWA.
> 
> It is way past time that we should consider the "UNRWA education is a human right" idea to be discarded as the lie it is. The budget shortfall would magically disappear without that false idea.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UNRWA keeps saying free education paid for by the world is a human right ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



There are no refugees of school age.  The whole idea is preposterous.  Every state needs to provide education for the citizens of their state, no one else holds responsibility for that.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

The latest "massacre" in Gaza is done by - UNRWA? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

If you need more proof that the entire purpose of a Palestinian state is to attack Israel and not to actually build a state, here are all the statements that came out of this week's Palestinian Cabinet meeting.

Not too much about anything internal - practically everything about Israel (and getting more money.)

(full article online)

What's the Palestinian Cabinet up to this week? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

What the U.N. needs to admit about the “Palestinian” refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

International law is clear on the definition of refugees. The 1951 Refugee Convention didn't give Palestinians a pass where their refugee status can be considered different from all others; it said that Palestinians who were getting support from UNRWA were excluded from being protected under the Convention as long as UNRWA exists.

Which is why UNRWA exists 67 years later.

But there is only one definition for refugee.

And indeed, the UNHCR lists five countries that are the source of the highest number of refugees -  Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia - of which only Syria has created more refugees that UNRWA has. Yet it doesn't include "Palestine" on that list.

One gets the impression that UNHCR is almost embarrassed to be sometimes forced to include Palestinians in its count of refugees because it is dealing with people who are in real crisis, not people who live as citizens in their own lands or who have been excluded by law from becoming citizens in the countries in which they have been born, which other international conventions call for.

In short, there is no international law that singles out Palestinians to be treated differently from other people; that idea is anathema to international law. The claims that Palestinian "refugees" are refugees under international law are ludicrous.

(full article online)

PA claims Palestinians remaining "refugees" forever is "international law" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abu Rudeina has regularly issued mafia-style  threats against the world, saying that if Abbas doesn't get his way then there will be terror attacks worldwide. Recently he called any US moves to limit free aid to the PA as long as they give salaries to terrorists a "declaration of war."

This hyperbole will now be more official. Abbas knows that the propaganda war is more important nowadays than any military war and he has chosen to elevate the lies and myths of the Palestinians by promoting the master of lies and threats. 

In a normal world, the obvious lies and exaggerations by Abu Rudeina would long ago have prompted  the media to accurately portray Abu Rudeina as "Baghdad Bob." But there are rules, you see. Palestinians must be treated seriously no matter what they say and how many times they are proven to have lied.

(full article online)

Abbas appoints his spokesman to be deputy prime minister and minister of propaganda ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

May I suggest that the PA divert funds used to give salaries to terrorists and their families and give them to the Health Ministry instead. Perhaps if they start thinking in terms of rewarding clinics for numbers of patients saved rather than rewarding martyrs according to number of Jews killed, they may actually do something positive for their people, occupation or not.

(full article online)

The Occupation Causes Palestinian Arabs To Have Heart Attacks | Israel Diaries


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> International law is clear on the definition of refugees. The 1951 Refugee Convention didn't give Palestinians a pass where their refugee status can be considered different from all others; it said that Palestinians who were getting support from UNRWA were excluded from being protected under the Convention as long as UNRWA exists.
> 
> Which is why UNRWA exists 67 years later.
> 
> But there is only one definition for refugee.
> 
> And indeed, the UNHCR lists five countries that are the source of the highest number of refugees -  Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia - of which only Syria has created more refugees that UNRWA has. Yet it doesn't include "Palestine" on that list.
> 
> One gets the impression that UNHCR is almost embarrassed to be sometimes forced to include Palestinians in its count of refugees because it is dealing with people who are in real crisis, not people who live as citizens in their own lands or who have been excluded by law from becoming citizens in the countries in which they have been born, which other international conventions call for.
> 
> In short, there is no international law that singles out Palestinians to be treated differently from other people; that idea is anathema to international law. The claims that Palestinian "refugees" are refugees under international law are ludicrous.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA claims Palestinians remaining "refugees" forever is "international law" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law is clear on the definition of refugees. The 1951 Refugee Convention didn't give Palestinians a pass where their refugee status can be considered different from all others; it said that Palestinians who were getting support from UNRWA were excluded from being protected under the Convention as long as UNRWA exists.
> 
> Which is why UNRWA exists 67 years later.
> 
> But there is only one definition for refugee.
> 
> And indeed, the UNHCR lists five countries that are the source of the highest number of refugees -  Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia - of which only Syria has created more refugees that UNRWA has. Yet it doesn't include "Palestine" on that list.
> 
> One gets the impression that UNHCR is almost embarrassed to be sometimes forced to include Palestinians in its count of refugees because it is dealing with people who are in real crisis, not people who live as citizens in their own lands or who have been excluded by law from becoming citizens in the countries in which they have been born, which other international conventions call for.
> 
> In short, there is no international law that singles out Palestinians to be treated differently from other people; that idea is anathema to international law. The claims that Palestinian "refugees" are refugees under international law are ludicrous.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA claims Palestinians remaining "refugees" forever is "international law" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law is clear on the definition of refugees. The 1951 Refugee Convention didn't give Palestinians a pass where their refugee status can be considered different from all others; it said that Palestinians who were getting support from UNRWA were excluded from being protected under the Convention as long as UNRWA exists.
> 
> Which is why UNRWA exists 67 years later.
> 
> But there is only one definition for refugee.
> 
> And indeed, the UNHCR lists five countries that are the source of the highest number of refugees -  Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia - of which only Syria has created more refugees that UNRWA has. Yet it doesn't include "Palestine" on that list.
> 
> One gets the impression that UNHCR is almost embarrassed to be sometimes forced to include Palestinians in its count of refugees because it is dealing with people who are in real crisis, not people who live as citizens in their own lands or who have been excluded by law from becoming citizens in the countries in which they have been born, which other international conventions call for.
> 
> In short, there is no international law that singles out Palestinians to be treated differently from other people; that idea is anathema to international law. The claims that Palestinian "refugees" are refugees under international law are ludicrous.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA claims Palestinians remaining "refugees" forever is "international law" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The reason why people left is irrelevant to their right to return.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law is clear on the definition of refugees. The 1951 Refugee Convention didn't give Palestinians a pass where their refugee status can be considered different from all others; it said that Palestinians who were getting support from UNRWA were excluded from being protected under the Convention as long as UNRWA exists.
> 
> Which is why UNRWA exists 67 years later.
> 
> But there is only one definition for refugee.
> 
> And indeed, the UNHCR lists five countries that are the source of the highest number of refugees -  Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia - of which only Syria has created more refugees that UNRWA has. Yet it doesn't include "Palestine" on that list.
> 
> One gets the impression that UNHCR is almost embarrassed to be sometimes forced to include Palestinians in its count of refugees because it is dealing with people who are in real crisis, not people who live as citizens in their own lands or who have been excluded by law from becoming citizens in the countries in which they have been born, which other international conventions call for.
> 
> In short, there is no international law that singles out Palestinians to be treated differently from other people; that idea is anathema to international law. The claims that Palestinian "refugees" are refugees under international law are ludicrous.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA claims Palestinians remaining "refugees" forever is "international law" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The reason why people left is irrelevant to their right to return.
Click to expand...


Actually, the alleged "right of return" is specifically the issue in question as it applies to some claim islamics want to apply to generations of Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Sixties Fan

EU completes Gaza’s largest solar energy field


----------



## Hollie

For as long as the West continues to support ineptitude, failure and provide funding for islamic terrorism the Arab-Moslems masquerading as "Pal"istanians" will continue to come begging for handouts. Islamic terrorism is not a problem that will not be cured by throwing money at the Islamic terrorists. 

The UNRWA is the world's hugest welfare program. It exists purely to perpetuate the invented "refugee" status of Arabs-Moslems who fled their homes when Arab armies told them to get out of the way so the Jew-genocide could commence. It's the only such agency for a terror quasi-state, and it gets boatloads annually from U.S. taxpayers. Does that money go to help impoverished Palestinian Arabs who need to eat and receive medical care or does it buy new Kalashnikovs and plastic explosives for Hamas? 


UN Palestinian agency to axe 250 jobs after US funding cuts

Mai Yaghi with Joe Dyke in Ramallah
,
AFP_•_July 25, 2018














1 / 2
*Palestinian employees of the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees UNRWA take part in a protest against job cuts announced by the agency in Gaza City on July 25, 2018*
Palestinian employees of the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees UNRWA take part in a protest against job cuts announced by the agency in Gaza City on July 25, 2018 (AFP Photo/SAID KHATIB)

Gaza City (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - The United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees announced Wednesday it was cutting more than 250 jobs in the Palestinian territories after the United States held back hundreds of millions in aid.

In total, 154 employees in the occupied West Bank and 113 in the Gaza Strip will be let go, UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness said in a statement.

More than 500 other full-time staff will be offered part-time contracts, the statement added.

The job cuts were the first since the US announced it would only provide the agency with $60 million this year, down from $360 million the previous year.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian youths, who celebrate setting fires in Israel, recognized in Silicon Valley for fire prevention app ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/terror-and-threats/four-misconceptions-about-hamas/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now Ahed’s mother Nariman, who instructed Ahed to attack the soldiers and who also was just released from prison, is also accusing the Tamimis’ Western supporters of racism:

Ahed Tamimi’s mother said that the media attention and worldwide solidarity that her daughter received following her arrest by Israeli occupation forces was rooted in racism.

“Frankly it is probably Ahed’s looks that prompted this worldwide solidarity and that’s racist by the way,” Nariman Tamimi told the Anadolu Agency, “because many Palestinian children are in Ahed’s position but weren’t treated in this way.”

“In fact one journalist wrote in Haaretz once on why they sympathized with Ahed when they were trying to arrest me once; they arrested me and she was crying,” she explained. “It’s because they felt that she looked like them, she said. So perhaps the world showed more solidarity because she looks like their children, but all Palestinian children are Ahed Tamimi.”


(full article online)

Ahed Tamimi's mother calls out "racism" of Ahed's Western supporters


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gaza Zoo animals were so abused or neglected, they had to be transferred to the PA Zoo last year ]

The only way they could attract people to their conference was to call for "freedom" of Palestinian animals - meaning, a Palestinian donkey that is dragged behind a truck is OK as long as it is "free" from "occupation."

I don't think the PAL will be issuing any statement thanking Israeli police for caring more about Palestinian animals than Palestinian animal rights activists themselves do.

As it stands, I could not find any photos of the participants in the three day conference, so I think there might have been more speakers than attendees.

But PAL used the conference to send their speakers on a European tour to show "intersectionality" to cynically use animal rights to push their main goal, demonizing Israel - the only country in the region that actually gives a damn about animal rights.

(full article online)

Palestinians use animal rights as another method to attack Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Darkman00

Animals use animal rights .. ( makes sense actually ). ^ ^


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## Sixties Fan

The prisoners held banners saying "The prisoner's salary is a right, not a gift. Give our prisoners their rights, don't starve the sons of the prisoners in Israeli jails. Shouldn't you reward my father who sacrificed his freedom for his homeland?"

It called on the Palestinian Authority to reconsider the allocation of prisoners' allowances as a basic and legitimate right for them and their families. It insisted that the PA not keep all political differences away from the subject of paying terrorist salaries.

It seems that the PA made these cuts in order to further punish Hamas and other Gaza terror groups, but also to show the West that, see, it doesn't support all terrorist salaries. Only the ones from the terrorists on the side of the Palestinian Authority - their heroes.

(full article online)

Gazans protest cuts in prisoner "salaries"  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

#AhedTamimi literally describes her time in Israel prison as "having a party." "We used sing, have group breakfasts, lunches, dance, read books, and a lot of stuff."

The Mossad on Twitter


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## Sixties Fan

His alternative was jail. Most countries have abolished
debtors’ prisons. Palestine should have, too. It signed a UN treaty that forbids them. But they still exist in Gaza, which has been ruled since 2007 by Hamas, a militant Islamist group. Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade on the territory after it took power. Last year the Palestinian Authority (PA), which governs the West Bank, added its own sanctions to press Hamas into ceding control. The PA has cut public-sector pay in Gaza by over 40% and forced thousands of civil servants into retirement.

(full article online)

Why Hamas jails people who can’t pay their debts


----------



## Hollie

Oh my. Those "poor, oppressed Arabs-Moslems" are in quite the rage. It seems the evil kuffar is to be vilified for noticing that the Death Cult is using kuffar innovated technology to promote islamist hate and violence.  It's quite remarkable that while islamics revile westerners/ non-islamics, they're sure willing to use western innovated technology (technology they never could have innovated on their own), to promote their hate, fears and superstitions.

*Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis*

Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis

*Journalists and activists accuse the social media giant of 'waging war on the Palestinians,' Israel has long accused it of not doing enough to combat incitement*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Former Kuwaiti minister slams "Palestinian" extremists


----------



## Hollie

It’s really a simple formula: if the west continues to finance Islamic terrorism on the part of Arabs-Moslems, islsmic terrorism will continue.  

There’s no arguing the fact that Hamas has published its (genocidal) charter outlining its goal of the total destruction of the state of Israel. There’s no arguing that the border riots are just a continuation of the Islamic gee-had. It's also important to understand that Israeli's returning to their homeland is an affront to islamism so that the Hamas Charter is perfectly in accord with Islamic ideology. I think it’s important to understand the islamist mindset on this issue. Within Islamism, revulsion for the infidel (and particularly, insensate hatred for the Jews) is enshrined by islam’s inventor. 

*
“Palestinian” Authority president reaffirms commitment to paying terrorists

PA President Abbas reaffirms commitment to paying terrorists
*
Despite demands to end these payments, Abbas plans to continue. America and Israel have both passed laws to stop sending money to the “Palestinians” until Abbas stops paying terrorists. But he has not stopped, and he has no plans to stop. Abbas continues to praise terrorists for their heinous crimes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The two million Palestinians in Jordan who use UNRWA services - of whom the vast majority are full Jordanian citizens - are being told that they are expected one day to "return" to Israel, and therefore they should not get too comfortable in Jordan.

Yahya al-Saud, head of the Palestine Committee in the Jordanian parliament, gave various bogus reasons for why UNRWA should exist in Jordan.

"Jordan is no longer able to bear more burdens because of the various waves of asylum it has hosted," he said, the latest of which was Syrian asylum, which exceeded 1.3 million refugees.

But the Palestinians have been in Jordan for 70 years. They are citizens. Jordan is paying a great deal of money for the Syrian refugees, who are in real need - and who aren't citizens. In other words, Jordanian citizens of Palestinian origin are a lower priority to Jordan than Syrian refugees.

What a great message to send them!

(full article online)

Jordanian politicians insist that Palestinians in Jordan be treated as second class citizens ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ We know it is hard to part with a fake refugee agency, but at some point.....they will get used to it....like anything else in life....like they got used to having this agency ]

'Mutiny' at UNRWA


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Arab-Moslem terrorists masquerading as Pal’istanians?

They’re the ones taking a beatdown after further acts of war. 

I still can’t quite understand israel’s continued “Wait until we’re attacked again and then respond” policy. 

Israel pounds Hamas after 17 injured in rocket barrage

IDF strikes 12 Hamas terror targets after over 70 projectiles fired towards southern Israel

The Israel Air Force retaliated by striking targets in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday evening after 17 people were treated for injuries resulting form rocket attacks from Gaza against southern Israel.

Following the barrages the IAF struck 12 terror targets including a plant used to manufacture components intended for the construction of tunnels as well as a tunnel for maritime terrorism along Israel’s coast. 

A number of terror targets in several military sites, including weapons and rockets, as well as a military compound that serves as a central logistic warehouse were also hit by IAF jets.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian rocket fire hits Israel, UN urges more Gaza fuel*

Palestinian rocket fire hits Israel, UN urges more Gaza fuel



Yeah. I know.


----------



## Hollie

Think "Peace Partner".




Gaza Professor on Hamas TV: The Jews Are ‘Human Garbage,’ ‘Behind Every Conspiracy’
AUGUST 9, 2018 7:37 AM

*Gaza Professor on Hamas TV: The Jews Are ‘Human Garbage,’ ‘Behind Every Conspiracy’*





Hamas supporters take part in a rally celebrating the 30th anniversary of the group’s founding in Gaza City on Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.

_JNS.org – _Abdul Samee’ Al-’Arabeed, a professor of Quranic Studies at Al-Aqsa University, said that according to the Quran, “the Jews are behind every conspiracy.”

“You may notice that over a third of the Quran talks about the Israelites, not merely to provide information, but to warn us, and to teach us how to deal with this human garbage,” he said on Hamas’s _Al-Aqsa TV _on July 19, according to a translation by the Middle East Media Research Institute.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Yeah, I started it  !!!    But you stop first  !!!!  ]


Ceasefire announcement from Hamas-run Strip followed by fresh attack on southern Israel; over 180 rockets, mortar shells fired, with IDF striking 150 'terror targets' in response

Gaza official: ‘Current round of fighting is over, calm depends on Israel’


----------



## Sixties Fan

High-level security cabinet convenes to discuss violence in south, Israeli jets flatten five-story building near Gaza City the army says was used by Hamas internal security

(full article online)

After Gaza rocket hits Beersheba, IDF levels an alleged Hamas HQ


----------



## Sixties Fan

For about ten years, Hamas has pretended that its rockets are only targeting Israeli military sites and not civilians.

This happened after Al-Qaeda leader Ayman Zawahiri scolded Hamas in 2008 for shooting at Israel "with the blessed Qassam rockets which don’t differentiate between a child and an adult, and moreover, perhaps [don’t differentiate] between the Jews and the Arabs and Muslims working in those colonies or in the streets and markets of Occupied Palestine, even though the Shari’ah forbids their killing."

Since then, Hamas official communications celebrating rocket fire has been careful to say that they were targeting Israeli military bases, not civilian communities - even though they openly bragged about damage done to civilians.

Hamas has lifted the pretense.

The Al Qassam Brigades' press release on last night's bombardment of Israel by Hamas rockets has dropped nearly all references to Israeli military bases being the target. They have returned to openly saying that they are targeting civilian communities.

 During the night: the bombing of the site of Ra'im and the usurperss of Sderot, Yad Mordekhai and Or Henir with a number of rocket bursts.
06: 00-04: 00: Netivot bombarded with a number of rocket bursts.
05:25: Shelled bombardment of keys(?) with a barrage of rockets.
05: 15-04: 30:The sites of Kissufim and Miftahim were shelled by rockets.
01:00: Zionist usurped Netivot bombarded with a rocket launcher.
00:30 - 01:00: The Erez military site was bombed and usurper Sderot was hit by a number of rocket bursts. At the same time, the terror group gathered all the photos and videos it could find of Israelis panicking and damage to civilian areas.

(full article online)

Hamas returns to being proud of attacking Israeli civilians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amira Hass in Haaretz attempts to answer why Palestinians are different:

 Other refugees had and have states that, in principle, they can or will be able to return to once the crisis that created their problem ends (like Rwandan and Syrian refugees), or alternatively, can move to (like ethnic Germans expelled from Eastern Europe or ethnic Greeks expelled from Turkey). But the Palestinian refugees lost their homeland. They aren’t allowed to return to the state – Israel – established on its ruins and have no state of their own.So ethnic Greeks and ethnic Germans have a place to move to, but ethnic Arabs - since most Palestinians are not native but came from other Arab lands - do not have a place to move to?

In fact, many of the Arabs of Palestine voluntarily fled from their homes to the places they came from - Lebanon, Syria and Egypt  - and to other areas like Jordan specifically because they felt that they were Arabs first and would be taken care of by their Arab brethren. No one, including themselves, called them "Palestinian."

(full article online)

Amira Hass' absurd attempt to claim Palestinians deserve special "refugee" status ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Yeah, I started it  !!!    But you stop first  !!!!  ]
> 
> 
> Ceasefire announcement from Hamas-run Strip followed by fresh attack on southern Israel; over 180 rockets, mortar shells fired, with IDF striking 150 'terror targets' in response
> 
> Gaza official: ‘Current round of fighting is over, calm depends on Israel’



Pathetic, they use it to boost their image while provoking the confrontation.
They've fired into 4 Israeli villages just 11 minutes ago:


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)


How's this for a waste of money? EU pays €5 million to PA to build Central Elections HQ ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, I started it  !!!    But you stop first  !!!!  ]
> 
> 
> Ceasefire announcement from Hamas-run Strip followed by fresh attack on southern Israel; over 180 rockets, mortar shells fired, with IDF striking 150 'terror targets' in response
> 
> Gaza official: ‘Current round of fighting is over, calm depends on Israel’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic, they use it to boost their image while provoking the confrontation.
> They've fired into 4 Israeli villages just 11 minutes ago:
Click to expand...

War....hopefully the last one with them.....is coming....as I read.
Let us prepare for the barrage of "war criminal" charges against Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Money to those who kill Jews....well spent...according to the PA and other Muslim groups ]


17 years after the suicide terror attack that left 15 dead, the bomb-builder and the suicide bomber's family continue to be rewarded with monthly payments from the PA 

PA terror payments to them and a third participating terrorist have reached more than $294,332 (1,020,570 shekels) 

PA law conditions any peace agreement with Israel on the release of all the terrorist prisoners, among them the bomb-maker of the Sbarro bombing, Abdallah Barghouti, who in total murdered 67 people.

PA has paid $294,332 to the Sbarro bombers - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

In retrospect, the signs were clear. Hamas evacuated several border observation posts, raising concerns a military escalation was imminent. This came in the wake of repeated sniper fire over the last month targeting IDF troops. The larger picture is that the conflict between Israel and Hamas has been heating up since March 30, when Hamas launched its “Great March of Return.”

Let’s examine the cascade of events leading to the August 8 blow-up, and their regional political context.

On March 13, Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah and PA intelligence chief Majed Faraj visited Hamas-run Gaza to inaugurate a sewage purification plant. Shortly after Hamdallah’s convoy passed through the Israeli-controlled Erez checkpoint, known to Palestinians as Beit Hanoun, it was targeted by a bombing that the PA blamed on Hamas.

(full article online)

To the brink of war: How Hamas and Israel got here


----------



## Hollie

Some cool footage of the IDF putting the “_had_” in the Islamic terrorist gee-had


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [  Yeah, I started it  !!!    But you stop first  !!!!  ]
> 
> 
> Ceasefire announcement from Hamas-run Strip followed by fresh attack on southern Israel; over 180 rockets, mortar shells fired, with IDF striking 150 'terror targets' in response
> 
> Gaza official: ‘Current round of fighting is over, calm depends on Israel’


So where is that ceasefire already?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> For about ten years, Hamas has pretended that its rockets are only targeting Israeli military sites and not civilians.
> 
> This happened after Al-Qaeda leader Ayman Zawahiri scolded Hamas in 2008 for shooting at Israel "with the blessed Qassam rockets which don’t differentiate between a child and an adult, and moreover, perhaps [don’t differentiate] between the Jews and the Arabs and Muslims working in those colonies or in the streets and markets of Occupied Palestine, even though the Shari’ah forbids their killing."
> 
> Since then, Hamas official communications celebrating rocket fire has been careful to say that they were targeting Israeli military bases, not civilian communities - even though they openly bragged about damage done to civilians.
> 
> Hamas has lifted the pretense.
> 
> The Al Qassam Brigades' press release on last night's bombardment of Israel by Hamas rockets has dropped nearly all references to Israeli military bases being the target. They have returned to openly saying that they are targeting civilian communities.
> 
> During the night: the bombing of the site of Ra'im and the usurperss of Sderot, Yad Mordekhai and Or Henir with a number of rocket bursts.
> 06: 00-04: 00: Netivot bombarded with a number of rocket bursts.
> 05:25: Shelled bombardment of keys(?) with a barrage of rockets.
> 05: 15-04: 30:The sites of Kissufim and Miftahim were shelled by rockets.
> 01:00: Zionist usurped Netivot bombarded with a rocket launcher.
> 00:30 - 01:00: The Erez military site was bombed and usurper Sderot was hit by a number of rocket bursts. At the same time, the terror group gathered all the photos and videos it could find of Israelis panicking and damage to civilian areas.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas returns to being proud of attacking Israeli civilians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> and the usurperss of Sderot,


Sderot was built on the ruins of the Palestinian ethnically cleansed farm village of Najd. The people of Najd now live in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas says Gaza cease-fire reached with Israel

Smoke rises from an explosion caused by an Israeli airstrike on a building of Said al-Mis’hal cultural center in Gaza City, Thursday, Aug. 9, 2018. Palestinian officials say Israeli warplanes have attacked the cultural center in Gaza City. The Palestinian Health Ministry says seven bystanders were wounded in Thursday evening’s airstrike in the Shati refugee camp. (Arafat Kareem/Associated Press)



Israel made some architectural changes to something called an "Islamic cultural center" (keep the laughter to a minimum kuffar). As you might have guessed, the Islamic cultural center also housed offices of an affiliate of _Islamic Terrorism Intl.., Inc._

I'm guessing you already knew that.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  Yeah, I started it  !!!    But you stop first  !!!!  ]
> 
> 
> Ceasefire announcement from Hamas-run Strip followed by fresh attack on southern Israel; over 180 rockets, mortar shells fired, with IDF striking 150 'terror targets' in response
> 
> Gaza official: ‘Current round of fighting is over, calm depends on Israel’
> 
> 
> 
> So where is that ceasefire already?
Click to expand...


"Ceasefire" wasn't the exact word used, the talk was about "gradual calm down".
The first is a function of signed agreements, the 2nd happens naturally when Hamas is low on emmo.

Israel should sign no ceasefire with Hamas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Under existing signed agreements, Israel is the sole administrator of Area C. Even if you consider it "occupied," Israel is the only country that has the right to determine zoning and similar decisions.

The EU knows this and keeps sending millions into the relatively few Palestinians in Area C - knowing that any buildings ti constructs will likely be demolished by Israel.

Then the EU will complain that Israel is demolishing the buildings which it knows is Israel's legal right.

So the entire point isn't to help Palestinians in Area C (some 95-98% of them live in Areas A and B). The entire point is to pressure Israel.

What a great way to waste European taxpayer euros.

(full article online)

EU earmarks € 5.5 million for illegal (Palestinian) settlements in Area C ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Entertaining Fatah infighting doesn't get any press coverage: Rajoub vs. Barghouti ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The absurd Haaretz attempts to defend the indefensible UNRWA definition of "Palestine refugee" to be different from every other refugee worldwide continues.

Carolina Landsmann at least admits this:

 More than anything, this recognition of their right (to "return") is for the purpose of negotiations, for use as a bargaining chip. But Kushner seeks to humiliate the Palestinians – or as the right likes to say, to destroy their hope – in order to seal a deal cheaply.She cannot find any actual justification for a Palestinian "right to retun" - only that they need to pretend that such a right exists in order to have a negotiating chip.

Apparently, to negotiate, you can choose to take a position that has no basis in law, reality or morality.

(full article online)

Haaretz columnist: Accurately defining refugees is meant to "humiliate Palestinians" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, Basem Naim tweeted out a photo of the instagram famous daughter of an American basketball player, claiming she was Bayan Abu Khammash, a toddler allegedly killed in an Israeli airstrike.  While the truth was struggling to get its pants on, the image went viral.

The "Ace" family,  who are active on social media have not yet issued a statement over the shameless misappropriation and exploitation of their child's image

The kid allegedly murdered by the #Israel is a random pict from #instagram--she lives in LA, and is fine. Oh, her name is Elle, not Bayan #Hamas #IsraelUnderFire


(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: The Truth Optional World of Gaza's Dr. Basem Naim


----------



## Sixties Fan

AFP Calls Apparent Hamas Naval Site a Gaza ‘Tourist Resort’ | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

Picnics, Parties, Singalongs: Tough Times for Young Palestinians Detained by Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is typical bias from the PA.

But what most people don't realize is that much of Palestinian media copies Wafa news releases verbatim, without attribution, pretending it is theirs.

So "our correspondent" also the correspondent for Palestine Today, Palestine News Network, Zamn Press (who called it "local sources",) and others.

When the media simply copies the official government "news," then the media is not very free.

(full article online)

Palestinian media copies official PA government "news" verbatim ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Even with the failure of the border gee-had to accomplish anything but generate a lot of dead and wounded Arabs-Moslems, there’s still a fair bit of Sheik’en the wannabes to join the gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

It took a lot of dead and crippled Islamics at the Great Tire Burning Riots™️ before Hamas admitted their intended purpose was a failure.

Here’s Hamas doing the walk of shame:

"Gaza Return March Spokesman Ahmad Abu Rutema Calls for "Tactical Withdrawal" from the Return March: "We Have Lost the Battle for Public Opinion" and Must Invent New Tactics"


Good call, Ahmad. But be honest, with the Great Satan™️ cutting off your welfare payments and Hamas offering to pay cash to the wounded minions, the failed gee-had was getting pretty expensive, eh?


----------



## Hollie

Aside from whatever chosen interpretation one wishes to take away from selected verses, we have only to look at the examples set by the Arab-Moslam world in order to come to conclusions about islam. The fact is, the only external example of islam we have is Moslems. If one is going to come to conclusions about interpretations of such matters as pigs and apes, the Moslem world provides those examples most everywhere. 


Say: "Shall I tell you who will receive a worse reward from God? Those whom God has cursed and with who He has been angry, transforming them into apes and swine, and those who serve the devil. Worse is the plight of these, and they have strayed farther from the right path." _—Koran 5:59-60_




No matter how long and closely you follow it, you still can't quite get used to this stuff.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This ceasefire initiative is rather disturbing: it requires no meaningful concessions on the part of Hamas. It leaves, for example, wholly intact Hamas's extremist ideology, which calls for the destruction of Israel, and does not demand that Hamas lay down its weapons.


A ceasefire may sound good, but in the current circumstances it will send a deadly message to Hamas and the other terror factions in the Gaza Strip: namely, that long-term terror bombardment of Israel gets you economic and humanitarian projects funded by the United Nations and Western donors, and perhaps even a seaport and airport. The ceasefire would give Hamas five to ten years to continue amassing weapons, tightening its grip on the Gaza Strip, and preparing for its next war with Israel.


Any ceasefire agreement will be perceived as a reward for Hamas-sponsored terrorism and violence against Israel. These negotiations will spur other terrorist groups around the world to continue their attacks with the hope of gaining legitimacy and forcing the UN and the international community to negotiate also with them.


Why is the UN apparently prepared to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the Gaza Strip while keeping Hamas in power and even allowing it to become stronger? Why is the UN being allowed to play the role of savior of Hamas?

(full article online)

UN Enabling Hamas's War Machine


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Today quotes Maariv about a Swedish candidate for Parliament.

Sa'id Hudros, is considered one of the most prominent activists in favor of the Palestinian cause in the Sweden.

Hudros was born in the  Burj al-Shamali refugee camp in southern Lebanon, has lived in Sweden since 1990.

According to UNRWA, Hudros is a "refugee." 

Even as he lives in Sweden, as a full citizen, UNRWA considers Hudros to be a registered Palestine refugee and counts him as one of the five million "Palestine refugees" that they keep track of.

Indeed, over 200,000 Lebanese Palestinians who have moved to Europe and elsewhere are still counted as "refugees" by UNRWA in Lebanon - including Sa'id Hudros.

(full article online)

According to @UNRWA, a candidate for Swedish elections is a Palestinian "refugee"! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Does the UN's other "refugee agency," UNRWA, adhere to these goals?

No. In fact, UNRWA opposes these goals!

It won't admit it publicly, of course, but for nearly 70 years UNRWA has been encouraging millions of people to remain stateless in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria - but only as long as they can be considered "Palestinian." UNRWA has never said a word against discriminatory laws in those states against Palestinians.

Most importantly, UNRWA has been complicit in the idea that Palestinians born in those countries not becoming citizens of those states, and even if they do become citizens through some loophole (which hundreds of thousands have managed to do), UNRWA wants them to be treated differently and not to ever be considered full citizens - until Israel is destroyed by "right to return."

It is one of the most egregious crimes of a UN agency that acts completely at odds with another agency, in order to perpetuate misery and statelessness and discrimination.

(full article online)

UNCHR has a plan to eliminate statelessness - but does it apply to Palestinian  Arabs? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It’s so cute when the angry, self-hating Islamics can find some common ground and shared pathology.

It should be obvious to anybody with a reason to challenge islamist dogma that any ideology which is utterly obsessed with war against anyone who doesn't buy into its supremacist ideology is a flawed and dangerous ideology. Seriously, it is.

Yeah. Abbas aka Abu Mazen wrote his “thesis” that was drenched in Holocaust denial blather.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Flag of “Palestine” as appearing in the French “Nouveau Petit Larousse” flag lexicon






The dynasties in the Arab flags




Hashemite Soldiers with the Arab revolt flag, 1918






(full article online)

The Flag of Deception


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Habbash, who is the Chief Justice of Palestine and President's Advisor on Religious Affairs and Islamic Relations, is heading a delegation of Palestinian officials to the 7th session of the World Peace Forum (WPF), held in Jakarta, Indonesia in October. 

Al-Habbash said that he will discuss ways to protect world peace from collapse and to examine the reasons that threaten the world peace, "especially the occupation that wreaks havoc on the land,  and the aggressors to reach the holy sites and the cancerous expansion of settlements and the confiscation of land and the murder of an unarmed people longing for freedom and freedom from the last occupation on earth."

More than once, on TV, Habbash has called for Jihad against Israel.

(full article online)

PA minister who calls for Jihad against Israel represents Palestine at "World Peace Forum" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

J-Street has a "Myths and Facts" page about UNRWA where they deliberately switch the myths and the facts.






Once again, the "pro-Israel" J-Street can find nothing bad to say about an organization that teaches its students that they must remain stateless until they "return" to destroy Israel.

Their "myths and facts" could have been written by UNRWA itself, and I think there is a good chance that this was in fact the case.

(full article online)

J-Street lies for @UNRWA - and says that Palestinians have a "right to return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ahed Tamimi has called on "Palestinians to murder Israelis through 'martyrdom-seeking operations' (i.e., suicide bombings), stabbing attacks, and stone-throwing..." — Bradley Martin, researcher.


If Palestinian Arabs are stateless today, it is by their own choice. Their leaders have chosen to expend their energies on wiping Israel from the face of the earth rather than on establishing a state of their own next to Israel.


Palestinian Arabs keep rejecting offers to establish a state of their own, according to David Brog, with Israel, Britain and the UN having offered Palestinian Arabs the opportunity to build their own state on five separate occasions -- in 1936, 1947, 1967, 2000, and 2008.


Turkey, on the other hand, has never accepted the right to self-rule of any non-Turkish people living in Asia Minor and historic Armenia, which is today eastern Turkey.
(full article online)

The Turkish-Palestinian Hate Fest


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> J-Street has a "Myths and Facts" page about UNRWA where they deliberately switch the myths and the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the "pro-Israel" J-Street can find nothing bad to say about an organization that teaches its students that they must remain stateless until they "return" to destroy Israel.
> 
> Their "myths and facts" could have been written by UNRWA itself, and I think there is a good chance that this was in fact the case.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> J-Street lies for @UNRWA - and says that Palestinians have a "right to return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


UNWRA is an aid agency. They do not define who is a refugee. They only define who is eligible for aid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian Arabs keep rejecting offers to establish a state of their own,


The Palestinians have not rejected a state. They have only rejected partition.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Arabs keep rejecting offers to establish a state of their own,
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have not rejected a state. They have only rejected partition.
Click to expand...

Actually, the two competing islamic terrorist enclaves of Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" have no interest in statehood. Those at the top of the welfare fraud scheme known as UNRWA stand to lose control of the kuffar welfare dollars.


----------



## Hollie

Ya’ Allah but Mahmoud is doing some world class sucking-up to the Saudi’s. I’m sure it’s Mahmoud’s way of saying “I’ll bend and scrape at your flowing robes if there’s a chance you will give me a few million dollars to make up for my welfare payments denied by the western kuffar”
*

PA aligns with Saudi Arabia 
against Canada*

PA aligns with Saudi Arabia against Canada - PMW Bulletins

By Maurice Hirsch, Adv.

In response to the Canadian call to free 15 human rights and women's rights activists detained by Saudi Arabia, the Saudi authorities expelled the Canadian ambassador.

Just days later, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas declared his support for Saudi Arabia and condemned the Canadian "interference" which he referred to as no less than "a blow to the sovereignty of the kingdom."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Arabs keep rejecting offers to establish a state of their own,
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have not rejected a state. They have only rejected partition.
Click to expand...


No, the Arabs-Moslems have made it clear that they acknowledge their desire to maintain the status quo of welfare fraud dependent Islamic terrorist enclave.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Arabs keep rejecting offers to establish a state of their own,
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have not rejected a state. They have only rejected partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, the two competing islamic terrorist enclaves of Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" have no interest in statehood. Those at the top of the welfare fraud scheme known as UNRWA stand to lose control of the kuffar welfare dollars.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> "Pal'istanians" have no interest in statehood.


Do you have a link for that?

Why is it that nobody else is asking for a state?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> J-Street has a "Myths and Facts" page about UNRWA where they deliberately switch the myths and the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the "pro-Israel" J-Street can find nothing bad to say about an organization that teaches its students that they must remain stateless until they "return" to destroy Israel.
> 
> Their "myths and facts" could have been written by UNRWA itself, and I think there is a good chance that this was in fact the case.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> J-Street lies for @UNRWA - and says that Palestinians have a "right to return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. They do not define who is a refugee. They only define who is eligible for aid.
Click to expand...


*UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?*
*UNRWA is anything but a humanitarian organization interested in the welfare of the Palestinians whom it claims to have spent the past nearly 70 years assisting. It is, rather, a self-serving political body that has bolstered Arab/Palestinian rejectionism and perpetuated Palestinian suffering, thereby preventing peace and prosperity.
*
In early 2018, President Donald Trump froze a large portion of the funding that the United States provides annually for UNRWA (the United Nations Relief Works Agency for Palestine Refugees a in the Near East). Prior to imposing the $125 million freeze, Trump tweeted: "[W]e pay the Palestinians HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect."

The president's move came in response to the fact that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his henchmen yet again were rejectingAmerican and Israeli peace overtures. Yet it was both welcome and necessary for reasons well beyond Palestinian intransigence. UNRWA not only has an abominable record of ties to terrorism, which makes a mockery of its mandate to " provide relief, human development and protection services;" but its entire existence is based on a false premise -- a special UN definition of "refugee" for Palestinians that sets them apart from other people in the world categorized as such. It thus has been able for decades to keep cash flowing freely into its coffers, providing "humanitarian services" for millions of Palestinians who are not refugees by any measure. As the ZOA's Morton Klein and Daniel Mandel recently wrote:

"All this stands in stark contrast to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the international body that deals with all refugee problems other than the Palestinian Arabs. UNHRC observes a universal definition of refugee status, one that applies solely to those who actually fled their country during hostilities, civil war, natural disaster, or other disturbances. UNHCR works to resettle refugees quickly and dismantle the temporary refugee camps housing them. Nor does it count descendants as refugees.

"This has immense practical ramifications: in literally all other cases other than the Palestinian Arabs, the number of refugees shrinks over time — chiefly through successful resettlement. In contrast, in the Palestinian Arab case, their numbers continue to expand ceaselessly.

"Thus, instead of the living original refugees officially numbering 30,000, UNRWA now services some 5.3 million Palestinian Arabs."

The actual number of Palestinian refugees is likely even lower than that cited by the authors: a classified State Department report, delivered to Congress in 2015, reveals it to be closer to 20,000. The report showed that billions of taxpayer dollars have been funneled over the years into an organization that seems to have been perpetuating a fraud. It is no wonder, then, that the Obama administration kept the report's contents a secret from the American public. 

UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Arabs keep rejecting offers to establish a state of their own,
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have not rejected a state. They have only rejected partition.
Click to expand...

Arabs have actually rejected an independent state,
in favor of ceding the whole land to Syria.

On the other hand, they have not rejected the partition when an Emir from Arabia got the biggest chunk of Palestine on the east bank of the river.
*It's all about Arab Muslim colonial imperialism.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> J-Street has a "Myths and Facts" page about UNRWA where they deliberately switch the myths and the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the "pro-Israel" J-Street can find nothing bad to say about an organization that teaches its students that they must remain stateless until they "return" to destroy Israel.
> 
> Their "myths and facts" could have been written by UNRWA itself, and I think there is a good chance that this was in fact the case.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> J-Street lies for @UNRWA - and says that Palestinians have a "right to return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. They do not define who is a refugee. They only define who is eligible for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?*
> *UNRWA is anything but a humanitarian organization interested in the welfare of the Palestinians whom it claims to have spent the past nearly 70 years assisting. It is, rather, a self-serving political body that has bolstered Arab/Palestinian rejectionism and perpetuated Palestinian suffering, thereby preventing peace and prosperity.
> *
> In early 2018, President Donald Trump froze a large portion of the funding that the United States provides annually for UNRWA (the United Nations Relief Works Agency for Palestine Refugees a in the Near East). Prior to imposing the $125 million freeze, Trump tweeted: "[W]e pay the Palestinians HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect."
> 
> The president's move came in response to the fact that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his henchmen yet again were rejectingAmerican and Israeli peace overtures. Yet it was both welcome and necessary for reasons well beyond Palestinian intransigence. UNRWA not only has an abominable record of ties to terrorism, which makes a mockery of its mandate to " provide relief, human development and protection services;" but its entire existence is based on a false premise -- a special UN definition of "refugee" for Palestinians that sets them apart from other people in the world categorized as such. It thus has been able for decades to keep cash flowing freely into its coffers, providing "humanitarian services" for millions of Palestinians who are not refugees by any measure. As the ZOA's Morton Klein and Daniel Mandel recently wrote:
> 
> "All this stands in stark contrast to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the international body that deals with all refugee problems other than the Palestinian Arabs. UNHRC observes a universal definition of refugee status, one that applies solely to those who actually fled their country during hostilities, civil war, natural disaster, or other disturbances. UNHCR works to resettle refugees quickly and dismantle the temporary refugee camps housing them. Nor does it count descendants as refugees.
> 
> "This has immense practical ramifications: in literally all other cases other than the Palestinian Arabs, the number of refugees shrinks over time — chiefly through successful resettlement. In contrast, in the Palestinian Arab case, their numbers continue to expand ceaselessly.
> 
> "Thus, instead of the living original refugees officially numbering 30,000, UNRWA now services some 5.3 million Palestinian Arabs."
> 
> The actual number of Palestinian refugees is likely even lower than that cited by the authors: a classified State Department report, delivered to Congress in 2015, reveals it to be closer to 20,000. The report showed that billions of taxpayer dollars have been funneled over the years into an organization that seems to have been perpetuating a fraud. It is no wonder, then, that the Obama administration kept the report's contents a secret from the American public.
> 
> UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?
Click to expand...

Instead of just slinging crap... History and legalities.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> J-Street has a "Myths and Facts" page about UNRWA where they deliberately switch the myths and the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the "pro-Israel" J-Street can find nothing bad to say about an organization that teaches its students that they must remain stateless until they "return" to destroy Israel.
> 
> Their "myths and facts" could have been written by UNRWA itself, and I think there is a good chance that this was in fact the case.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> J-Street lies for @UNRWA - and says that Palestinians have a "right to return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. They do not define who is a refugee. They only define who is eligible for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?*
> *UNRWA is anything but a humanitarian organization interested in the welfare of the Palestinians whom it claims to have spent the past nearly 70 years assisting. It is, rather, a self-serving political body that has bolstered Arab/Palestinian rejectionism and perpetuated Palestinian suffering, thereby preventing peace and prosperity.
> *
> In early 2018, President Donald Trump froze a large portion of the funding that the United States provides annually for UNRWA (the United Nations Relief Works Agency for Palestine Refugees a in the Near East). Prior to imposing the $125 million freeze, Trump tweeted: "[W]e pay the Palestinians HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect."
> 
> The president's move came in response to the fact that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his henchmen yet again were rejectingAmerican and Israeli peace overtures. Yet it was both welcome and necessary for reasons well beyond Palestinian intransigence. UNRWA not only has an abominable record of ties to terrorism, which makes a mockery of its mandate to " provide relief, human development and protection services;" but its entire existence is based on a false premise -- a special UN definition of "refugee" for Palestinians that sets them apart from other people in the world categorized as such. It thus has been able for decades to keep cash flowing freely into its coffers, providing "humanitarian services" for millions of Palestinians who are not refugees by any measure. As the ZOA's Morton Klein and Daniel Mandel recently wrote:
> 
> "All this stands in stark contrast to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the international body that deals with all refugee problems other than the Palestinian Arabs. UNHRC observes a universal definition of refugee status, one that applies solely to those who actually fled their country during hostilities, civil war, natural disaster, or other disturbances. UNHCR works to resettle refugees quickly and dismantle the temporary refugee camps housing them. Nor does it count descendants as refugees.
> 
> "This has immense practical ramifications: in literally all other cases other than the Palestinian Arabs, the number of refugees shrinks over time — chiefly through successful resettlement. In contrast, in the Palestinian Arab case, their numbers continue to expand ceaselessly.
> 
> "Thus, instead of the living original refugees officially numbering 30,000, UNRWA now services some 5.3 million Palestinian Arabs."
> 
> The actual number of Palestinian refugees is likely even lower than that cited by the authors: a classified State Department report, delivered to Congress in 2015, reveals it to be closer to 20,000. The report showed that billions of taxpayer dollars have been funneled over the years into an organization that seems to have been perpetuating a fraud. It is no wonder, then, that the Obama administration kept the report's contents a secret from the American public.
> 
> UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Instead of just slinging crap... History and legalities.
Click to expand...


Why cut and paste that silly, irrelevant YouTube video when you have dumped it multiple times across multiple threads?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> J-Street has a "Myths and Facts" page about UNRWA where they deliberately switch the myths and the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the "pro-Israel" J-Street can find nothing bad to say about an organization that teaches its students that they must remain stateless until they "return" to destroy Israel.
> 
> Their "myths and facts" could have been written by UNRWA itself, and I think there is a good chance that this was in fact the case.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> J-Street lies for @UNRWA - and says that Palestinians have a "right to return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency. They do not define who is a refugee. They only define who is eligible for aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?*
> *UNRWA is anything but a humanitarian organization interested in the welfare of the Palestinians whom it claims to have spent the past nearly 70 years assisting. It is, rather, a self-serving political body that has bolstered Arab/Palestinian rejectionism and perpetuated Palestinian suffering, thereby preventing peace and prosperity.
> *
> In early 2018, President Donald Trump froze a large portion of the funding that the United States provides annually for UNRWA (the United Nations Relief Works Agency for Palestine Refugees a in the Near East). Prior to imposing the $125 million freeze, Trump tweeted: "[W]e pay the Palestinians HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect."
> 
> The president's move came in response to the fact that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his henchmen yet again were rejectingAmerican and Israeli peace overtures. Yet it was both welcome and necessary for reasons well beyond Palestinian intransigence. UNRWA not only has an abominable record of ties to terrorism, which makes a mockery of its mandate to " provide relief, human development and protection services;" but its entire existence is based on a false premise -- a special UN definition of "refugee" for Palestinians that sets them apart from other people in the world categorized as such. It thus has been able for decades to keep cash flowing freely into its coffers, providing "humanitarian services" for millions of Palestinians who are not refugees by any measure. As the ZOA's Morton Klein and Daniel Mandel recently wrote:
> 
> "All this stands in stark contrast to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the international body that deals with all refugee problems other than the Palestinian Arabs. UNHRC observes a universal definition of refugee status, one that applies solely to those who actually fled their country during hostilities, civil war, natural disaster, or other disturbances. UNHCR works to resettle refugees quickly and dismantle the temporary refugee camps housing them. Nor does it count descendants as refugees.
> 
> "This has immense practical ramifications: in literally all other cases other than the Palestinian Arabs, the number of refugees shrinks over time — chiefly through successful resettlement. In contrast, in the Palestinian Arab case, their numbers continue to expand ceaselessly.
> 
> "Thus, instead of the living original refugees officially numbering 30,000, UNRWA now services some 5.3 million Palestinian Arabs."
> 
> The actual number of Palestinian refugees is likely even lower than that cited by the authors: a classified State Department report, delivered to Congress in 2015, reveals it to be closer to 20,000. The report showed that billions of taxpayer dollars have been funneled over the years into an organization that seems to have been perpetuating a fraud. It is no wonder, then, that the Obama administration kept the report's contents a secret from the American public.
> 
> UNRWA's "Palestinian Refugee" Fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Instead of just slinging crap... History and legalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why cut and paste that silly, irrelevant YouTube video when you have dumped it multiple times across multiple threads?
Click to expand...

Because Zionists are slow learners.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Talk about spamming the same irrelevant video multiple times.


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Refugees Protest Against UNRWA*

*“I see UNRWA staff living a lavish life. They are traveling, attending conferences, and then you hear about a deficit,” said Mohammad Shawish, a Palestinian living in Jerusalem. “Shouldn’t expenditure of available funds be addressed?”*

The 2013 audit of the UNRWA states “The Board has identified a number of issues that will need to be considered by management if the effectiveness of UNRWA operations is to be improved.”

In the report, the auditors found that payments to suppliers for refugee needs had to be deferred to meet staff salary needs. That’s $5.26 million that was deferred from suppliers to meet the salary obligations of $52.34 million in December 2013.

Shouldn’t the needs of those being displaced, injured and even killed come before the needs of staffers? Working for an organization like the UNRWA, these workers should know that their salary is at risk of being cut to support those in dire need. Or at least that’s how it should work from a humanitarian standpoint.

Residents of Bourj El Barajneh Palestinian refugee camp have raised many questions about the organizations practices and their lack of truly listening to them. One resident, Cyrine, wonders “why does the UNRWA hire foreign workers and pay for their accommodation, travel, etc. when we, qualified Palestinians, can work for the organization and then they will be providing a salary, saving a family, and reducing wages?”

Although the UNRWA employs 30,000 people, most of them being Palestinian refugees, that number also includes foreign workers.

Palestinians in Lebanon cannot work in many professions in Lebanon mainly because of their refugee status. A 2012 report by the International Labour Organization states that 50 percent of Palestinian Refugees earn 500,000 LBP ($330.47) or less per month.

“You go to a job interview, and the moment you say you are Palestinian, the employer apologizes,” says Ahmed from Bourj El Barajneh camp. The refugees are barred from practicing such professions as medicine and law and are not allowed to benefit from the Social Security System.

Now, with the UNRWA’s deficit combined with the exclusion of Social Security, many ill refugees or pregnant women will be without the care and help they need.

Noura, a Palestinian in Beirut, raised questions about the expenditures of UNRWA employees. “The UNRWA flew many people last year for conferences,” she said. “Then we see people getting denied from services for lack of funding. Shouldn’t be there better planning for how donors money is being spent? We have had enough.”

It’s organizations like the UNRWA that are supposed to be saving the world. Instead, when you really look into the gut of the operation it seems like they are part of the problem. What can we do to fix this?

Palestinian Refugees Protest Against UNRWA | HuffPost


----------



## rylah

*Long classified report on Palestinian refugees may finally be released*
By Rick Moran
Congress is putting pressure on the Trump administration's state department to release a classified report that would severely damage the narrative on Palestinian refugees. Among other things said to be in the report is the revelation that there are far fewer Palestinian refugees than the UN and the Palestinian Authority have claimed.

Washington Free Beacon:

Key lawmakers in Congress are increasing pressure on the Trump administration to release a long classified government report on Palestinian refugees that insiders have described as a potential game changer in how the United States views the refugee issue and allocates millions in taxpayer funding for a major United Nations agency, according to conversations with senior congressional officials working on the matter.

The State Department has, since the Obama administration was in office, been hiding a key report believed to expose the number of Palestinian refugees as far smaller than the U.N. and other have claimed for decades. The public release of this information could alter how the United States provides funding for Palestinian refugees.

The _Washington Free Beacon_ first disclosed the existence of the refugee report in January, when the Trump administration decided to significantly cut funding to the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, an organization long accused of harboring anti-Israel bias and of aiding Hamas terrorists in the Palestinian territories.

Though the State Department is legally required to publish an unclassified version of the report, it has repeatedly ignored demands by Congress that the report be released.

The State Department, when asked by the _Free Beacon_, could not provide any information or timeframe on the report's possible release.

"The State Department is committed to taking all appropriate measures to provide information in response to requests from Congress," a State Department official said.

Congressional demands that the report be publicly released come at time of mounting criticism for UNRWA, which is facing a severe cash crunch following the Trump administration's decision to reduce U.S. funding. The tense situation with UNRWA has sparked protests in the Gaza Strip, where UNRWA mainly operates and employs hundreds.

In addition to regional protests over UNRWA's inability to pay salaries, Turkey was recently appointedat the U.N. to chair the agency's advisory committee for the next year. This has stoked concerns that UNRWA could take an even more anti-Israel position in the coming months.

UNRWA has been playing a confidence game with numbers of refugees for decades. The more refugees they claim in their reports, the more money they receive and can siphon off as pure graft.

Long classified report on Palestinian refugees may finally be released


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mustafa Khaled Awad, 36, A Palestinian Arab with Belgian citizenship, was arrested while attempting to enter Israel through the Allenby Crossing, it was cleared for publication Wednesday.

The joint interrogation of the Shin Bet security service and the International Criminal Investigation Unit in Lahav 433 revealed that Mustafa was recruited into the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terrorist organization and has served as an operative for the terror group since 2010. It was also revealed that Mustafa was a member of a cell of PFLP terrorist operatives living and working in Europe, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, as well as activists in Judea and Samaria.

In the course of his activities for the PFLP, Mustafa left for military training in Lebanon in 2015, where he trained with Hezbollah operatives.

The investigation also revealed that Mustafa helped transfer terrorist funds from the PFLP terrorist organization in Syria and Lebanon to European activists. The Central District Attorney's Office is expected to file an indictment against Mustafa in the coming days for terrorist offenses.

(full article online)

From Belgium to Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have not rejected a state. They have only rejected partition.



Yep.  The rejection of partition is the rejection of the existence of any non-Arab, non-Muslim State in the territory, rejecting the rights of the Jewish people in their own homeland.  And it is a rejection of the normal way these types of conflicts are solved in modern times -- special rules for Jews.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Aside from the fun and games Ahed enjoyed as a guest of the Joooooooos, she apparently had time to stuff her face at meal time. She had a significant weight gain in jail. The little porker just couldn't put the fork down. 

*The truth about Israeli prisons: 
Singing and dancing; TV and books

The truth about Israeli prisons: Singing and dancing; TV and books - PMW Bulletins*


*Ahed Tamimi's description of singing and dancing, reading books and watching TV, refutes PA lies and libels about conditions in Israelis prisons*

*A male terrorist prisoner described that the "worst thing about Israeli prison" is when prisoners are forced to ride in a prison vehicle that does not have padding on the seat.  In the prisoner's words, this is suffering "beyond imagination."*
By Itamar Marcus

Palestinian 17-year-old Ahed Tamimi, who served eight months in Israeli prison for inciting suicide bombings and for striking Israeli soldiers, was asked by Russian RT TV how she passed the time.

Her descriptions of her daily routine for herself and the entire wing include singing, dancing, reading books, watching TV, even legal studies and matriculation exams, and refute the PA's ongoing lies about the conditions in Israeli prisons.

The following is part of a longer interview on RT TV:


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> UNWRA is an aid agency. They do not define who is a refugee. They only define who is eligible for aid.



The operational definition of "refugee", according to UNWRA is "person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict" and all their descendants in the male line.  UNWRA has also expanded that operational definition to include other categories including those who did not lose their homes and descendants in the female line.  

This definition is VASTLY different from the UNHCR definition which is "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted...is outside his country of nationality, OR, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his habitual residence".

UNHCR's definition is tied to nationality and thus has a built-in end-game to refugee status -- being inside the country of one's nationality.  UNWRA's definition, in contrast, creates a perpetual status of "refugee" which can not be relieved.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sometimes we see photos of coins or stamps or currency of British Mandate Palestine being reproduced as "proof" that there was a Palestinian state.

If that is true, and British Mandate Palestine is proof of a Palestinian state, then its first leader was - a Jew!

Herbert Samuel was appointed to the position of High Commissioner of Palestine in 1920.

So if the money and stamps supposedly prove that Palestine existed as an independent entity, then even so the first leader of the Palestinian people after the Ottoman era was Jewish.

(full article online)

The first political leader in Palestine was a Jew ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.

Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.

 In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.

And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.

Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:

(full article online)

Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians "and" Arabs ? 
 So, Palestinians are now distinct from Arabs, like the Iranians and Kurds and Yazidis?  
It does take chutzpah, does it not ? 
BTW, not the first time Arabs separate the "Palestinian Arabs" from themselves.    ]

MEMRI noted that Jarrar also called on the Arabs to "end our silence and idleness and declare....that we will be the ones to choose the deal we want."

The proposed deal, Jarrar said, should include a clause stating that "all the Jews who came to Israel after the Balfour Declaration of 1917, as well as their children and descendants, will return to the countries from which they came, without taking anything with them."

"The Palestinian refugees will return to their homes," he continued, "and the US and Britain will compensate the Palestinians and the Arabs for the damage caused by the Zionist occupation" as well as for the "damage caused" by the "Zionist aggression" and for "hosting the Palestinian refugees."

Israel, meanwhile would "sign a document stating that they have no rights, historical or otherwise," and any Israelis who killed Palestinian Authority Arabs would be turned over to the PA and prosecuted, "to receive the punishment they deserve."

"Even if this plan does not seem feasible today, the Arabs must persist in making these demands, for these are their rights and they will eventually attain them," Jarrar added.

(full article online)

Jews, get out of 'Palestine!' | Former Jordanian minister proposes 'peace deal'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.
> 
> Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.
> 
> In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.
> 
> And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


You people keep beating the wrong horse. UNWRA is strictly an aid agency. The resolution of the refugee problem was mandated to the UNCCP in accordance to resolution 194.

The UNWRA has nothing to do with the refugees other than to provide aid.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.
> 
> Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.
> 
> In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.
> 
> And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You people keep beating the wrong horse. UNWRA is strictly an aid agency. The resolution of the refugee problem was mandated to the UNCCP in accordance to resolution 194.
> 
> The UNWRA has nothing to do with the refugees other than to provide aid.
Click to expand...


Actually UNRWA:


 facilitates the prolonging of a refugee status
 establishes a multi-generational welfare system only for persons of a single political group, who outside regular refugee agencies would not be eligible for aid.
*UNRWA is a financial fraud.*






 .​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.
> 
> Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.
> 
> In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.
> 
> And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You people keep beating the wrong horse. UNWRA is strictly an aid agency. The resolution of the refugee problem was mandated to the UNCCP in accordance to resolution 194.
> 
> The UNWRA has nothing to do with the refugees other than to provide aid.
Click to expand...


I want to see this gain traction and the UNRWA welfare fraud ended.


Kushner said pushing to close UNRWA, end refugee status for Palestinian millions


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Palestinians "and" Arabs ?
> So, Palestinians are now distinct from Arabs, like the Iranians and Kurds and Yazidis?
> It does take chutzpah, does it not ?
> BTW, not the first time Arabs separate the "Palestinian Arabs" from themselves.    ]
> 
> MEMRI noted that Jarrar also called on the Arabs to "end our silence and idleness and declare....that we will be the ones to choose the deal we want."
> 
> The proposed deal, Jarrar said, should include a clause stating that "all the Jews who came to Israel after the Balfour Declaration of 1917, as well as their children and descendants, will return to the countries from which they came, without taking anything with them."
> 
> "The Palestinian refugees will return to their homes," he continued, "and the US and Britain will compensate the Palestinians and the Arabs for the damage caused by the Zionist occupation" as well as for the "damage caused" by the "Zionist aggression" and for "hosting the Palestinian refugees."
> 
> Israel, meanwhile would "sign a document stating that they have no rights, historical or otherwise," and any Israelis who killed Palestinian Authority Arabs would be turned over to the PA and prosecuted, "to receive the punishment they deserve."
> 
> "Even if this plan does not seem feasible today, the Arabs must persist in making these demands, for these are their rights and they will eventually attain them," Jarrar added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jews, get out of 'Palestine!' | Former Jordanian minister proposes 'peace deal'



Just wow.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.
> 
> Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.
> 
> In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.
> 
> And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You people keep beating the wrong horse. UNWRA is strictly an aid agency. The resolution of the refugee problem was mandated to the UNCCP in accordance to resolution 194.
> 
> The UNWRA has nothing to do with the refugees other than to provide aid.
Click to expand...


UNWRA has an operational definition of who is registered as a "refugee" and has actually changed that definition.  Are you saying they are operating illegally by doing so?  What definition should they be using?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.
> 
> Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.
> 
> In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.
> 
> And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You people keep beating the wrong horse. UNWRA is strictly an aid agency. The resolution of the refugee problem was mandated to the UNCCP in accordance to resolution 194.
> 
> The UNWRA has nothing to do with the refugees other than to provide aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UNWRA has an operational definition of who is registered as a "refugee" and has actually changed that definition.  Are you saying they are operating illegally by doing so?  What definition should they be using?
Click to expand...

That only defines who is eligible for aid.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The politicization of UNRWA is what makes it an anti-humanitarian agency.
> 
> Hweidi goes through the history of UNRWA, not entirely accurately, describing how different it was in the 1950s to today, and by doing so he doesn't quite realize that he is damning the agency.
> 
> In 1949, the Agency was given the task of supporting the Palestinian refugees, in addition to providing humanitarian services such as health, education and relief, coordinating with the host countries to integrate refugees into the economies of the region and working to settle those who do not wish to return and reside in host countries in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. These countries were forced to sign armistice agreements with the Israeli occupation between February and July 1949, creating a political climate suitable to begin the process of resettlement without the objection of the host countries and the exploitation of the deteriorating humanitarian situation of the refugees. The refugees themselves stopped this project and promoted awareness of what their perception was being plotted against them.It was the Arab countries and self-appointed Palestinian "leaders" who fought against UNRWA's original aims, not the refugees themselves, who would have gladly accepted being integrated into Arab countries.
> 
> And most of them still would, today. We have documented cases where loopholes opened for Palestinians to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon, and how tens of thousands of them jumped at the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Hweidi describes other failed attempts to integrate Palestinians into the region:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian op-ed accurately explains how @UNRWA turned from humanitarian to political ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You people keep beating the wrong horse. UNWRA is strictly an aid agency. The resolution of the refugee problem was mandated to the UNCCP in accordance to resolution 194.
> 
> The UNWRA has nothing to do with the refugees other than to provide aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UNWRA has an operational definition of who is registered as a "refugee" and has actually changed that definition.  Are you saying they are operating illegally by doing so?  What definition should they be using?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That only defines who is eligible for aid.
Click to expand...


It defines who is eligible to be registered as a refugee.  Its an operational point of fact as to who they permit to be registered.  And they have changed the definition to suit themselves and their goal of keeping people as refugees in perpetuity.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud “_Money for Nothin_’” Abbas is making good on his pledge to fund Islamic terrorism no matter the cost. The UNRWA welfare dollars he doesn’t steal and siphon off for the benefit of those in his criminal syndicate will be prioritized for paying islsmic terrorists.* 



The PA chooses to fund terrorists 
over children’s education* 

PA chooses to fund terrorists over children’s education - PMW Bulletins


*Until today there had been concern that UNRWA would not open 700 schools providing education for 320,000 PA children*
*UNRWA's claimed deficit of $217,000,000 is far less than the nearly $400,000,000 the PA pays yearly to terrorists and families of "Martyrs"*
*Instead of rewarding terror, the PA should fund the education of the Palestinian children*
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus

Yesterday the Palestinian Authority made clear to the world that if forced to choose, it will pay salaries to terrorists rather than pay for the education of its children. 

Recent reports claimed that UNRWA did not have enough money to open up the UNRWA school system for over 320,000 Palestinian children. UNRWA’s budget for the schools could easily be paid by the PA from the money it spends paying terrorist prisoners and families of so-called “Martyrs,” yet, last night Mahmoud Abbas announced on PA TV: “Israel considers them (i.e., terrorist prisoners) criminals... Even if we need to cut from our flesh, we will continue to give the support and aid.” [Official PA TV, Aug. 15, 2018]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Mahmoud “_Money for Nothin_’” Abbas is making good on his pledge to fund Islamic terrorism no matter the cost. The UNRWA welfare dollars he doesn’t steal and siphon off for the benefit of those in his criminal syndicate will be prioritized for paying islsmic terrorists.*
> 
> 
> 
> The PA chooses to fund terrorists
> over children’s education*
> 
> PA chooses to fund terrorists over children’s education - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> *Until today there had been concern that UNRWA would not open 700 schools providing education for 320,000 PA children*
> *UNRWA's claimed deficit of $217,000,000 is far less than the nearly $400,000,000 the PA pays yearly to terrorists and families of "Martyrs"*
> *Instead of rewarding terror, the PA should fund the education of the Palestinian children*
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
> 
> Yesterday the Palestinian Authority made clear to the world that if forced to choose, it will pay salaries to terrorists rather than pay for the education of its children.
> 
> Recent reports claimed that UNRWA did not have enough money to open up the UNRWA school system for over 320,000 Palestinian children. UNRWA’s budget for the schools could easily be paid by the PA from the money it spends paying terrorist prisoners and families of so-called “Martyrs,” yet, last night Mahmoud Abbas announced on PA TV: “Israel considers them (i.e., terrorist prisoners) criminals... Even if we need to cut from our flesh, we will continue to give the support and aid.” [Official PA TV, Aug. 15, 2018]


You are so confused. The PA does not fund UNWRA schools.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud “_Money for Nothin_’” Abbas is making good on his pledge to fund Islamic terrorism no matter the cost. The UNRWA welfare dollars he doesn’t steal and siphon off for the benefit of those in his criminal syndicate will be prioritized for paying islsmic terrorists.*
> 
> 
> 
> The PA chooses to fund terrorists
> over children’s education*
> 
> PA chooses to fund terrorists over children’s education - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> *Until today there had been concern that UNRWA would not open 700 schools providing education for 320,000 PA children*
> *UNRWA's claimed deficit of $217,000,000 is far less than the nearly $400,000,000 the PA pays yearly to terrorists and families of "Martyrs"*
> *Instead of rewarding terror, the PA should fund the education of the Palestinian children*
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
> 
> Yesterday the Palestinian Authority made clear to the world that if forced to choose, it will pay salaries to terrorists rather than pay for the education of its children.
> 
> Recent reports claimed that UNRWA did not have enough money to open up the UNRWA school system for over 320,000 Palestinian children. UNRWA’s budget for the schools could easily be paid by the PA from the money it spends paying terrorist prisoners and families of so-called “Martyrs,” yet, last night Mahmoud Abbas announced on PA TV: “Israel considers them (i.e., terrorist prisoners) criminals... Even if we need to cut from our flesh, we will continue to give the support and aid.” [Official PA TV, Aug. 15, 2018]
> 
> 
> 
> You are so confused. The PA does not fund UNWRA schools.
Click to expand...


So, you are forever befuddled. The PA funds Islamic terrorism as a priority to funding schools. 

It seems you are a graduate of those under funded schools.


----------



## Hollie

I have to note that Islamic terrorist syndicates are totally predictable in finding the most inarticulate and, at the samr time, the most dogmatic fascists to represent their mini-caliphates. The spokes-clowns for Islamic terrorist franchises literally define the Islamist propensity for the maintenance of theocratic / dictatorial totalitarianism and the inability to adopt a human-focused worldview.



Speaking on the Palestinian Authority’s TV channel on August 13, Fatah Central Committee member Jibril Rajoub addressed Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, Defense Minister Lieberman, and Education Minister Bennett, saying: "You are criminals! You are neo-Nazis!" Rajoub said that the Palestinian people is "at the most dangerous phase in [its] history, since the Nakba of 1948," and that "the [Israeli] right, supported by the U.S. administration, wants to erase Palestine."


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud “_Money for Nothin_’” Abbas is making good on his pledge to fund Islamic terrorism no matter the cost. The UNRWA welfare dollars he doesn’t steal and siphon off for the benefit of those in his criminal syndicate will be prioritized for paying islsmic terrorists.*
> 
> 
> 
> The PA chooses to fund terrorists
> over children’s education*
> 
> PA chooses to fund terrorists over children’s education - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> *Until today there had been concern that UNRWA would not open 700 schools providing education for 320,000 PA children*
> *UNRWA's claimed deficit of $217,000,000 is far less than the nearly $400,000,000 the PA pays yearly to terrorists and families of "Martyrs"*
> *Instead of rewarding terror, the PA should fund the education of the Palestinian children*
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
> 
> Yesterday the Palestinian Authority made clear to the world that if forced to choose, it will pay salaries to terrorists rather than pay for the education of its children.
> 
> Recent reports claimed that UNRWA did not have enough money to open up the UNRWA school system for over 320,000 Palestinian children. UNRWA’s budget for the schools could easily be paid by the PA from the money it spends paying terrorist prisoners and families of so-called “Martyrs,” yet, last night Mahmoud Abbas announced on PA TV: “Israel considers them (i.e., terrorist prisoners) criminals... Even if we need to cut from our flesh, we will continue to give the support and aid.” [Official PA TV, Aug. 15, 2018]
> 
> 
> 
> You are so confused. The PA does not fund UNWRA schools.
Click to expand...


If Palestine wants to be taken seriously as a State, it must start addressing the needs of its citizens.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians use indications of media affiliation to protect themselves during anti-Israeli military activities and terrorist attacks - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mass wedding in Ramallah, sponsored by Mahmoud Abbas, is an Israel-bashing and Abbas-promoting event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas, the dictator of the Palestinian areas in the West Bank, gave a speech on Saturday where he warned that all aid that goes to Gaza must go through his corrupt government first.

Speaking at the closing session of the Palestinian Central Council meeting, Abbas once again criticized Hamas for not acceding to his rule and said "any money and aid coming to Gaza must come through the legitimate Palestinian government."

Abbas' government has reduced medical supplies, electricity and salaries to Gazans in the past 18 months. The world media has largely ignored the fact that Israel has been trying to help Gazans far more than their purported leader.

There are reports today from Israeli security sources that Abbas plans to increase his sanctions on Gaza while pretending that he can be trusted to take care of his people there.

(full article online)

Dictator for Life Abbas: "Any aid for Gaza must go through me first" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Hamas, terrorism is not just a means -- it is a right.





Saleh Armouti, an MP in Jordan's House of Representatives last year, went a step further, claiming that the UN supported armed resistance, in general -- and terrorist attacks in particular:

 [It was] the legitimate right of the liberated prisoner Ahlam Tamimi [to] resist the occupier, as the United Nations laws stipulate the right to self-determination, as ruled [by] international legitimacy [as] the right to resist the occupation.Tamimi is the mastermind of the Sbarro massacre that murdered 15 civilians (including 7 children and a pregnant woman) and wounded 130.

Is it actually possible that the United Nations, which is supposed to be an agent for world peace, actually recognizes the right to blow people up?

In 1974, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution which:
 3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, _including _armed struggle;

7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;The phrase "armed struggle" is repeatedly used in the 1968 Palestinian National Charter, a copy of which is conveniently carried on the UN website.

In 1978, the UN General Assembly went further. "Armed struggle" was not just one option _included _among others, but that it was a _particular _option to be used. Also, in 1978 the word "occupation" was used - a word that was not used at all in the 1974 resolution.

(full article online)

No, Palestinian  "Armed Struggle" is not supported by international law (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Haniyeh: Gaza Siege Almost Over – At No Cost to Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> According to Hamas, terrorism is not just a means -- it is a right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saleh Armouti, an MP in Jordan's House of Representatives last year, went a step further, claiming that the UN supported armed resistance, in general -- and terrorist attacks in particular:
> 
> [It was] the legitimate right of the liberated prisoner Ahlam Tamimi [to] resist the occupier, as the United Nations laws stipulate the right to self-determination, as ruled [by] international legitimacy [as] the right to resist the occupation.Tamimi is the mastermind of the Sbarro massacre that murdered 15 civilians (including 7 children and a pregnant woman) and wounded 130.
> 
> Is it actually possible that the United Nations, which is supposed to be an agent for world peace, actually recognizes the right to blow people up?
> 
> In 1974, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution which:
> 3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, _including _armed struggle;
> 
> 7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;The phrase "armed struggle" is repeatedly used in the 1968 Palestinian National Charter, a copy of which is conveniently carried on the UN website.
> 
> In 1978, the UN General Assembly went further. "Armed struggle" was not just one option _included _among others, but that it was a _particular _option to be used. Also, in 1978 the word "occupation" was used - a word that was not used at all in the 1974 resolution.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> No, Palestinian  "Armed Struggle" is not supported by international law (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Indeed, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.

In 1974, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution which:
3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation* by all available means, including armed struggle*;

7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa *and the Palestinian people*;


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> In 1974, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution which:
> 3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation* by all available means, including armed struggle*;



By blowing up innocent children and pregnant women in pizza restaurants?!  That is not armed struggle.  That is unrestrained, ugly, inhuman, abhorrent.  It is a twisting of law to justify the most ugly, disgusting aspects of human interaction -- the murder of innocents.  The justification then turns on re-defining innocents as the guilty, thereby making murder of innocents an acceptable form of "justice".  The re-defining takes the form of judging people for what they are, or what they believe or what their narrative is.  It is the most vile of all justifications for evil.  There are two groups of people who have used this justification -- one historically and one currently -- and applied it to broad categories of people.  It is woven into their religious ideology.  It is categorically evil.  

Peaceful negotiation and mutual recognition is the solution to the conflict between the Arabs and the Jewish people.  It always has been.

Armed struggle (combat) is a poor second choice, but sometimes necessary.  If Arab Palestinians want to engage in armed combat against Israel, I say bring it.  But for the love of humanity, leave your children out of it.  Don't bring them.  Put them in a safe place away from weapons and combatants and tunnels and military objectives.  

But this idea that the murder of innocents is the morally and legally correct path is a disgusting idea which needs to be abolished.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> 7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa *and the Palestinian people*;



Arab Palestinians are not under colonial, foreign domination or alien subjugation by the Jewish people.  The Jewish people are neither colonial, nor foreign nor aliens.  (Though you could certainly argue the reverse is true).

The Jewish people and the Arab Palestinians both want the same thing -- self-determination and independence.  Denying one of those people is nothing but hypocrisy.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Hamas, terrorism is not just a means -- it is a right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saleh Armouti, an MP in Jordan's House of Representatives last year, went a step further, claiming that the UN supported armed resistance, in general -- and terrorist attacks in particular:
> 
> [It was] the legitimate right of the liberated prisoner Ahlam Tamimi [to] resist the occupier, as the United Nations laws stipulate the right to self-determination, as ruled [by] international legitimacy [as] the right to resist the occupation.Tamimi is the mastermind of the Sbarro massacre that murdered 15 civilians (including 7 children and a pregnant woman) and wounded 130.
> 
> Is it actually possible that the United Nations, which is supposed to be an agent for world peace, actually recognizes the right to blow people up?
> 
> In 1974, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution which:
> 3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, _including _armed struggle;
> 
> 7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;The phrase "armed struggle" is repeatedly used in the 1968 Palestinian National Charter, a copy of which is conveniently carried on the UN website.
> 
> In 1978, the UN General Assembly went further. "Armed struggle" was not just one option _included _among others, but that it was a _particular _option to be used. Also, in 1978 the word "occupation" was used - a word that was not used at all in the 1974 resolution.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> No, Palestinian  "Armed Struggle" is not supported by international law (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> In 1974, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution which:
> 3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples' struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation* by all available means, including armed struggle*;
> 
> 7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa *and the Palestinian people*;
Click to expand...


I see. You are hoping to justify islamic terrorism with a snippet of a UN opinion you cut and pasted. 

Lovely.


----------



## Hollie

I read the following article and after some thought came to the conclusion that considering pro vs. con,  I agree.

Ultimately, the right to self defense needs to be available to those who face an immediate threat from Arabs-Moslems who pose a clear and persistent danger.


Israel eases gun controls following lone-wolf attacks


----------



## Shusha

Really, P F Tinmore?

You mark my post about murdering innocents as "funny"?!  You find the ideology of, "the murder of innocents is abhorrent" is an ideology to be laughed at or mocked?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

His real name is Hakim.


----------



## Hollie

Well, tell us something we don’t already know, Muhammud. The acknowledgement that “Official PA Media” is simply a mouthpiece for Islamic terrorists and their agenda can’t be a surprise to anyone. 

I’m just thinking that the admission would be an embarrassment to anyone  other than Islamic terrorist retrogrades. 

*
Official PA media is a propaganda machine*
|



Official PA media is a propaganda machine in the "struggle" against the State of Israel, say the heads of official PA media. What this means in practice is that the role of PA media is not to objectively "report," but literally to "create" the story.

Palestinian Media Watch has asserted for years that the official PA media is completely controlled by the leadership. As such, all the official PA media lies and libels, glorification of terror and terrorists, and presentation of a world in which Israel does not exist and has been replaced by "Palestine" - all this must be recognized as PA leadership messages.



Official PA media is a propaganda machine  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Really, P F Tinmore?
> 
> You mark my post about murdering innocents as "funny"?!  You find the ideology of, "the murder of innocents is abhorrent" is an ideology to be laughed at or mocked?


It is not the content. It is the presentation. 

Y'all post the same few incidents over and over again year after year. While the numerous attacks on the Palestinians go unmentioned.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really, P F Tinmore?
> 
> You mark my post about murdering innocents as "funny"?!  You find the ideology of, "the murder of innocents is abhorrent" is an ideology to be laughed at or mocked?
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the content. It is the presentation.
> 
> Y'all post the same few incidents over and over again year after year. While the numerous attacks on the Palestinians go unmentioned.
Click to expand...



Jihad failure will cause someone to shed a tear?
It's the civilized world against suicidal maniacs, and You're on the wrong side.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really, P F Tinmore?
> 
> You mark my post about murdering innocents as "funny"?!  You find the ideology of, "the murder of innocents is abhorrent" is an ideology to be laughed at or mocked?
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the content. It is the presentation.
> 
> Y'all post the same few incidents over and over again year after year. While the numerous attacks on the Palestinians go unmentioned.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## rylah

From introduction to the_"The Jewish cemetery in Gaza" _by Ilan Gal Peer

The Jewish community in Gaza survived until the second decade of the last century, and has known many ups and downs in its history. The last community left the city and moved to Hebron. A few years later, the Jewish property in the city, which included a synagogue and land in the city of Harat El Yahud, was sold to the Arabs, leaving the ancient cemetery of the community, covering an area of more than ten dunams. Later on, the Jews who moved to Hebron tried to renew their presence in Gaza, based on their ownership of the cemetery, and in June 1839 they turned to Moses Montefiore, who would help rebuild the community and renew its days. However, the community has not been renewed, and the ancient cemetery of the Jews of Gaza remains neglected, according to later evidence, there are no more Jews left in Gaza. A large cemetery from the early days of R. Israel Najara, his father and son is still in the city, and this ancient cemetery, which was still known to the Arabs as the "Tomb of the Jews" many years later, eventually moved from Jewish hands to the possession of an Arab became a gourd and no graves or tombstones remained.

Rabbi Israel ben Moses Najara - Wikipedia


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 23-Aug-18: New data: How the terrorists who bombed the Sbarro pizzeria fared financially


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> (full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 23-Aug-18: New data: How the terrorists who bombed the Sbarro pizzeria fared financially




The moral depravity of compensating those who commit crimes as opposed to compensating the victims of crime.  Palestinian mentality.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority still won’t fulfill its obligations in the Oslo Accords, such as disarming, outlawing and extraditing terrorists, or ending incitement. It won’t even negotiate with Israel.

(full article online)

Mr. President: The Palestinians already got ‘their turn’


----------



## Hollie

This appeared to be coming so it is gratifying to see the Great Satan turning off the welfare money spigot that has helped drench islamic terrorists in kuffar cash to fund the gee-had. 


*US cuts aid to Palestinians by more than $200 million*
*By MATTHEW LEE
35 minutes ago*

US cuts aid to Palestinians by more than $200 million


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration has decided to cut more than $200 million in bilateral aid to the Palestinians, following a review of the funding for projects in the West Bank and Gaza, the State Department said Friday.

The department notified Congress of the decision in a brief, three-paragraph notice sent first to lawmakers and then to reporters. It said the administration will redirect the money to “high priority projects elsewhere.”


----------



## Hollie

I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah. 

For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.


Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.

Square that circle.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you’re not paying attention. I described the Shia Iranian vs. Sunni divide earlier. 

The majority Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi in that part of the world are going to distance themselves from anyone aligning with the Shia heretics. Hamas has already made a major blunder by bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats.

You can’t sweep that under your prayer rug.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re not paying attention. I described the Shia Iranian vs. Sunni divide earlier.
> 
> The majority Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi in that part of the world are going to distance themselves from anyone aligning with the Shia heretics. Hamas has already made a major blunder by bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats.
> 
> You can’t sweep that under your prayer rug.
Click to expand...

What has Iran ever told Hamas to do?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re not paying attention. I described the Shia Iranian vs. Sunni divide earlier.
> 
> The majority Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi in that part of the world are going to distance themselves from anyone aligning with the Shia heretics. Hamas has already made a major blunder by bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats.
> 
> You can’t sweep that under your prayer rug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Iran ever told Hamas to do?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Please pay attention. 

What is behind the Hamas-Iran rapprochement?

Changing regional dynamics have pushed Hamas back into Iran's embrace.



Shirley, you are aware of the Arab-Moslem angst regarding the “Shia Crescent”; the Iranian designs on power and influence across Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. With the Iranian Mullocrats supporting Hamas with money and weapons, there is a direct challenge to the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi -Moslems. 

You obviously missed it but the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi tribes don’t play well with the Shia apostates - not since the death of islam’s Inventor.

Need a link for that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re not paying attention. I described the Shia Iranian vs. Sunni divide earlier.
> 
> The majority Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi in that part of the world are going to distance themselves from anyone aligning with the Shia heretics. Hamas has already made a major blunder by bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats.
> 
> You can’t sweep that under your prayer rug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Iran ever told Hamas to do?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please pay attention.
> 
> What is behind the Hamas-Iran rapprochement?
> 
> Changing regional dynamics have pushed Hamas back into Iran's embrace.
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley, you are aware of the Arab-Moslem angst regarding the “Shia Crescent”; the Iranian designs on power and influence across Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. With the Iranian Mullocrats supporting Hamas with money and weapons, there is a direct challenge to the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi -Moslems.
> 
> You obviously missed it but the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi tribes don’t play well with the Shia apostates - not since the death of islam’s Inventor.
> 
> Need a link for that?
Click to expand...

Thanks, but that did not address my question.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
Click to expand...


Islam says Christian messiah will break all the crosses and kill Christians,
Yet hatred of Jews unites these 2 groups.

Sunni hate Shia and willing to murder them and steal their countries,
but they both hate Jews by default enough to make it into a point of unity...got it?

The same goes with Western liberals, digressive's, and communists, have historically unified with their worst enemies to fight the Jews - hence You lovely, got it?

Arabs Muslim or Christian have always attacked Palestinian Jews,
it's the same thing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re not paying attention. I described the Shia Iranian vs. Sunni divide earlier.
> 
> The majority Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi in that part of the world are going to distance themselves from anyone aligning with the Shia heretics. Hamas has already made a major blunder by bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats.
> 
> You can’t sweep that under your prayer rug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Iran ever told Hamas to do?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please pay attention.
> 
> What is behind the Hamas-Iran rapprochement?
> 
> Changing regional dynamics have pushed Hamas back into Iran's embrace.
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley, you are aware of the Arab-Moslem angst regarding the “Shia Crescent”; the Iranian designs on power and influence across Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. With the Iranian Mullocrats supporting Hamas with money and weapons, there is a direct challenge to the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi -Moslems.
> 
> You obviously missed it but the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi tribes don’t play well with the Shia apostates - not since the death of islam’s Inventor.
> 
> Need a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, but that did not address my question.
Click to expand...


It did. Your sidestepping and silly one-liners are just tactics you use to announce retreat.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re not paying attention. I described the Shia Iranian vs. Sunni divide earlier.
> 
> The majority Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi in that part of the world are going to distance themselves from anyone aligning with the Shia heretics. Hamas has already made a major blunder by bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats.
> 
> You can’t sweep that under your prayer rug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Iran ever told Hamas to do?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please pay attention.
> 
> What is behind the Hamas-Iran rapprochement?
> 
> Changing regional dynamics have pushed Hamas back into Iran's embrace.
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley, you are aware of the Arab-Moslem angst regarding the “Shia Crescent”; the Iranian designs on power and influence across Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. With the Iranian Mullocrats supporting Hamas with money and weapons, there is a direct challenge to the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi -Moslems.
> 
> You obviously missed it but the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi tribes don’t play well with the Shia apostates - not since the death of islam’s Inventor.
> 
> Need a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, but that did not address my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It did. Your sidestepping and silly one-liners are just tactics you use to announce retreat.
Click to expand...


_sidestepping_....he's good at it!....


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam says Christian messiah will break all the crosses and kill Christians,
> Yet hatred of Jews unites these 2 groups.
> 
> Sunni hate Shia and willing to murder them and steal their countries,
> but they both hate Jews by default enough to make it into a point of unity...got it?
> 
> The same goes with Western liberals, digressive's, and communists, have historically unified with their worst enemies to fight the Jews - hence You lovely, got it?
> 
> Arabs Muslim or Christian have always attacked Palestinian Jews,
> it's the same thing.
Click to expand...

Does not address my post.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gaza should become autonomous from PA's areas.   It always has been ]

I don't know how reliable this report is, but Al Akhbar in Lebanon is reporting that PLO leader Mahmoud Abbas is drawing up plans to severely punish all Gazans if the current negotiations in Egypt with Hamas prove fruitless.

The newspaper quoted "informed political sources" that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has instructed his government to prepare a "full vision on stopping the financing of Gaza."

This would include stopping salaries of employees in ministries of social affairs, health and education.

According to the newspaper, the sanctions would also include stopping the work of the Monetary Authority in Gaza, which means the closure of all banks in the sector, which will paralyze all commercial activities and affect the ability to pay for any imports.

"There are other steps that the PA is preparing to implement, including stopping the transfer of social welfare services serving more than 80,000 families from Gaza, freezing medical transfers for patients, cutting off medicines and supplies for the health sector, cutting off electricity in Gaza" according to the report.

(full article online)

Report: Abbas to close banks in Gaza, cut off all salaries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Professor Joseph Massad attempts to paint Churchill as an antisemite - and ends up damning himself ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ten weeks before the local elections in Jerusalem on October 30, terrorist organizations are increasing the pressure on eastern Jerusalem residents to stay away from the voting booths and maintain the boycott of Jerusalem’s municipal elections, as in the past. While the pressure grows, surveys and some new, different voices reflect a desire among many Arab eastern Jerusalemites to participate in the elections. They seek to become part of the municipal establishment so that they can wield influence and channel budgets into services and infrastructure for Arab neighborhoods.

(full article online)

Palestinian Leaders Threaten Jerusalem’s Arabs on Eve of Municipal Elections


----------



## Sixties Fan

In May 2018, the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs and Public Diplomacy published a report titled “The Money Trail: The Millions Given by EU Institutions to NGOs With Ties to Terror and Boycotts Against Israel, an In-Depth Analysis.” Two months later, the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Frederica Mogherini, replied to the report. Her main arguments were that allegations of the European Union supporting incitement or terror were unfounded and unacceptable — and that terror and boycotts are two distinct phenomena.

The Israeli Ministry’s report is clear and substantiated, and Mogherini should read it again.

What is not mentioned in the report is that the European Union and its member states finance NGOs that harass Israel, Israeli officials, and corporations doing business in Israel and in Europe. The European Union still finances the Palestinian Authority (PA) — and the PA still encourages Palestinians to kill Jews. As the Taylor Force Act states, “The Palestinian Authority’s practice of paying salaries to terrorists serving in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of deceased terrorists, is an incentive to commit acts of terror.”

(full article online)

European Union Continues to Fiscally Back Hate Education Against Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is clear that the Palestinian boycott of the US administration did not include receiving funds from the Americans.


The Palestinians are entitled to voice their anger at the US. However, if they are so fed up with the US that they are even boycotting US administration officials, why are they demanding that the Americans continue to supply them with hundreds of millions of dollars each year?


The Palestinians are trying to blackmail the US by claiming, absurdly, that the recent US decisions jeopardize the two-state solution and prospects for peace in the Middle East. These are the very Palestinians, however, who have refused to resume peace talks with Israel for the past four years, since long before Trump was elected as president.

(full article online)

US Aid, Palestinian Wakaha


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Gaza should become autonomous from PA's areas.   It always has been ]
> 
> I don't know how reliable this report is, but Al Akhbar in Lebanon is reporting that PLO leader Mahmoud Abbas is drawing up plans to severely punish all Gazans if the current negotiations in Egypt with Hamas prove fruitless.
> 
> The newspaper quoted "informed political sources" that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has instructed his government to prepare a "full vision on stopping the financing of Gaza."
> 
> This would include stopping salaries of employees in ministries of social affairs, health and education.
> 
> According to the newspaper, the sanctions would also include stopping the work of the Monetary Authority in Gaza, which means the closure of all banks in the sector, which will paralyze all commercial activities and affect the ability to pay for any imports.
> 
> "There are other steps that the PA is preparing to implement, including stopping the transfer of social welfare services serving more than 80,000 families from Gaza, freezing medical transfers for patients, cutting off medicines and supplies for the health sector, cutting off electricity in Gaza" according to the report.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Abbas to close banks in Gaza, cut off all salaries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Abbas is shooting himself in the foot.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Gaza should become autonomous from PA's areas.   It always has been ]
> 
> I don't know how reliable this report is, but Al Akhbar in Lebanon is reporting that PLO leader Mahmoud Abbas is drawing up plans to severely punish all Gazans if the current negotiations in Egypt with Hamas prove fruitless.
> 
> The newspaper quoted "informed political sources" that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has instructed his government to prepare a "full vision on stopping the financing of Gaza."
> 
> This would include stopping salaries of employees in ministries of social affairs, health and education.
> 
> According to the newspaper, the sanctions would also include stopping the work of the Monetary Authority in Gaza, which means the closure of all banks in the sector, which will paralyze all commercial activities and affect the ability to pay for any imports.
> 
> "There are other steps that the PA is preparing to implement, including stopping the transfer of social welfare services serving more than 80,000 families from Gaza, freezing medical transfers for patients, cutting off medicines and supplies for the health sector, cutting off electricity in Gaza" according to the report.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Abbas to close banks in Gaza, cut off all salaries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is shooting himself in the foot.
Click to expand...



Abbas has become a radicalized, unstable, emotional, sad, elderly man who has been unable to make his mark on history.  The question is only whether the next generation will take up that particular radical calling.  Sadly, seems likely.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Gaza should become autonomous from PA's areas.   It always has been ]
> 
> I don't know how reliable this report is, but Al Akhbar in Lebanon is reporting that PLO leader Mahmoud Abbas is drawing up plans to severely punish all Gazans if the current negotiations in Egypt with Hamas prove fruitless.
> 
> The newspaper quoted "informed political sources" that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has instructed his government to prepare a "full vision on stopping the financing of Gaza."
> 
> This would include stopping salaries of employees in ministries of social affairs, health and education.
> 
> According to the newspaper, the sanctions would also include stopping the work of the Monetary Authority in Gaza, which means the closure of all banks in the sector, which will paralyze all commercial activities and affect the ability to pay for any imports.
> 
> "There are other steps that the PA is preparing to implement, including stopping the transfer of social welfare services serving more than 80,000 families from Gaza, freezing medical transfers for patients, cutting off medicines and supplies for the health sector, cutting off electricity in Gaza" according to the report.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Abbas to close banks in Gaza, cut off all salaries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is shooting himself in the foot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas has become a radicalized, unstable, emotional, sad, elderly man who has been unable to make his mark on history.  The question is only whether the next generation will take up that particular radical calling.  Sadly, seems likely.
Click to expand...


With the recent announcement that The Great Satan is cutting off $200 million in welfare payments, Abbas has to maneuver. He has a mini-caliphate to maintain. If those at the apex of his criminal franchise see their paychecks at risk, Abbas will find himself on the endangered species list. The competing mini-caliphate in Gaza is the obvious choice to get cut off from the welfare checks.

This could easily descend into a rather ugly, internecine war between the two groups, especially if Hamas goes begging to the Iranian Mullocrats for money and weapons.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam says Christian messiah will break all the crosses and kill Christians,
> Yet hatred of Jews unites these 2 groups.
> 
> Sunni hate Shia and willing to murder them and steal their countries,
> but they both hate Jews by default enough to make it into a point of unity...got it?
> 
> The same goes with Western liberals, digressive's, and communists, have historically unified with their worst enemies to fight the Jews - hence You lovely, got it?
> 
> Arabs Muslim or Christian have always attacked Palestinian Jews,
> it's the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does not address my post.
Click to expand...


You didn't read it.

P F Tinmore how would You square that circle?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam says Christian messiah will break all the crosses and kill Christians,
> Yet hatred of Jews unites these 2 groups.
> 
> Sunni hate Shia and willing to murder them and steal their countries,
> but they both hate Jews by default enough to make it into a point of unity...got it?
> 
> The same goes with Western liberals, digressive's, and communists, have historically unified with their worst enemies to fight the Jews - hence You lovely, got it?
> 
> Arabs Muslim or Christian have always attacked Palestinian Jews,
> it's the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does not address my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't read it.
> 
> P F Tinmore how would You square that circle?
Click to expand...

What circle is there to square?


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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> Hollie said:
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> I’m surprised that Ahed Tamimi wasn’t made to disappear in the night with her bending and scraping before the Shia Iranian stooge Nasrallah.
> 
> For anyone who may not be familiar with the internecine hatreds that exist in the islamist Middle East, the sunni and shia despise each other. The majority Sunni tribe views the Shia asca heretical sect. These throwbacks from the 7th century have waged a 1,400 year long blood feud that frequently boils over into murderous rage that causes one group or the other to slaughter adherents of the competing tribe.
> 
> 
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> Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.
> 
> Square that circle.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam says Christian messiah will break all the crosses and kill Christians,
> Yet hatred of Jews unites these 2 groups.
> 
> Sunni hate Shia and willing to murder them and steal their countries,
> but they both hate Jews by default enough to make it into a point of unity...got it?
> 
> The same goes with Western liberals, digressive's, and communists, have historically unified with their worst enemies to fight the Jews - hence You lovely, got it?
> 
> Arabs Muslim or Christian have always attacked Palestinian Jews,
> it's the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does not address my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't read it.
> 
> P F Tinmore how would You square that circle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What circle is there to square?
Click to expand...


You wrote:
_"Iran and Hezbollah are Shia. Palestine is Sunni.

Square that circle."_

Q.So how do *You* square the choice of Sunni Hamas and PA, to become another stepping stone for the Iranian Shia Revolution, how does one square that in a Sunni neighborhood?


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## José

The Taliban accepted american dollars and weapons to fight the soviet invasion of their country.

Did they become America's puppets after that?


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## rylah

José said:


> The Taliban accepted american dollars and weapons to fight the soviet invasion of their country.
> 
> Did they become America's puppets after that?


Tell me when Taliban waves a big US flag on the battlefield and gives speeches under a huge portrait of the US president.

Where have we seen anything comparable...oh yeah You've mentioned it - the Soviets.
Were the Soviet republics puppets or vassals?


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## José

> Originally posted by *rylah*
> Tell me when Taliban waves a big US flag on the battlefield and gives speeches under a huge portrait of the US president.




You need to brush up on your history of Afghanistan.

American diplomats were enthusiastically greeted by hundreds of mujaheddin fighters in the bordering region of Pakistan and yes... they did wave american flags.


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## rylah

José said:


> You need to brush up on your history of Afghanistan.
> 
> American diplomats were enthusiastically greeted by hundreds of mujaheddin fighters in the bordering region of Pakistan and yes... they did wave american flags.


If they planted the US flag on the front-line of battlefield, and  their govt does speeches under their portraits...

What if the president of Your country put a flag of a foreign country on the streets of Your cities, and started giving speeches under a picture of a foreign head of state, what would be Your conclusions? What if he made Your soldiers carry that flag on the front-line?


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## José

Afghan fighters waving the american flag and making speeches under it = a way of thanking America for her support

Hamas leaders displaying huge pics of iranian leaders = a way of thanking Iran for its support

Now you're trying to save face by splitting hairs.


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## rylah

José said:


> Afghan fighters waving the american flag and making speeches under it = a way of thanking America for her support
> 
> Hamas leaders displaying huge pics of iranian leaders = a way of thanking Iran for its support
> 
> Now you're trying to save face by splitting hairs.


Can You show me such a picture?
Becoming a vassal puppet seems to be the standard way of "thanking Iran for it's support",
Syria already sees the Shia population exchange and new dept to Iran for the opportunity to complete the Iranian crescent corridor on the graves of Syrians.

Seems like a good deal, who doesn't want to see Iranian flags on their borders right?
I'm sure the neighbors are thrilled about this development as well.


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## Sixties Fan

The happy Palestinians


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## Sixties Fan

All the video shows is a girl climbing a fence. Something that kids do every day. There are schools surrounded by fences that kids climb for fun when they can walk around. You've probably done this yourself when you were younger. 

In other words, without any further evidence, we cannot believe a word of these (conflicting) explanations of what happened. And there is reason to doubt them.

Because there are Arabs on both sides of the fence shown here. 
Clearly the original story that the house was surrounded and then the gate locked is absurd, because the story would be the people who are caught inside the fence, not the ones who are trying to go from outside in. And the people "inside" the fenced area don't seem to be acting like they have been jailed. When Israel does seal off a house, it certainly doesn't include a road.

So the story morphed into "Israel closed the gate." OK, where are the photos of the people waiting at the gate, or trying to break it open, or arguing with soldiers, or anything showing that the explanation offered by the Israel-haters is true? 

I don't know why the girl climbed the fence, but my guess is that she simply didn't want to walk around it. That's it. That's all we can guess without any evidence to the contrary. 

This is not "apartheid." This video shows nothing wrong. It is all the lies that people attribute to the video that causes the hate. And they do it quite knowingly.

UPDATE: An explanation was posted on Facebook by Amit Deri. The girl could have indeed walked around, there is an open section a little down the road with no gate at all. The fence she climbed was a gate that is normally open, and it was closed temporarily because Arabs were throwing stones from there. When the incident was over, the gate was opened soon after.

The reason the gate exists to begin with is because of a fatal stabbing attack a few years ago.

(full article online)

"Girl climbing fence in Hebron" video seems to be Pallywood-captioning (UPDATE) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Hollie

I suppose a sharia court would have rendered the same punishment*. 



Hamas fighters torture 13-year Adham,
because he hit son of Hamas military leader

Hamas fighters torture 13-year Adham, because he hit son of Hamas military leader - PMW Bulletins*


*Gazans complain about Hamas human rights violation
and child abuse*

*Muhammad Adham, age 13: "They hit me with daggers and a whip. He broke my finger... When one finished or tired out, another came and continued to hit me with a belt. They broke iron on my neck."*
o
*Muhammad Adham's father: "There are people who threatened me directly that they will murder my 13-year-old son Adham...* *We are in prison. If someone speaks up or raises his head - they [Hamas] kill him... I implore the human rights organizations, the Arab states, and all of the organizations to stand with us."*

*Muhammad Adham's mother: "We have acquiesced to [Hamas'] disrespect... to the humiliation... when it's done to adults. But when it comes to the children, what else remains in the world?"*


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## member

rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to brush up on your history of Afghanistan.
> 
> American diplomats were enthusiastically greeted by hundreds of mujaheddin fighters in the bordering region of Pakistan and yes... they did wave american flags.
> 
> 
> 
> If they planted the US flag on the front-line of battlefield, and  their govt does speeches under their portraits...
> 
> What if the president of Your country put a flag of a foreign country on the streets of Your cities, and started giving speeches under a picture of a foreign head of state, what would be Your conclusions? What if he made Your soldiers carry that flag on the front-line?
Click to expand...





 *"You need to brush up on your history of Afghanistan...."*




 the stupid russians 

 had to come along and  

 poke the evil bees-nest by ....what else, trying to invade it....then, we all know, how it went from there.....here we are---afghanistan.  one big insane asylum even before the stupid, meddling, greedy, russians tried to invade it...


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## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  member, rylah, José, et al,

Having been to Afghanistan, albeit, nearly ten years ago now, I do not equate the Mujahideen guerrillas _(Islamic insurgents and unconventional warfare fighters)_ and the ultraconservative Taliban _(a dysfunctional and radicalized Sunni political movement)_ as one and the same.  In fact, my (limited) experience has been that the Taliban _(except in rare instances)_ were either Afghani or Pakistani; whereas, the Mujahideen were generally of a multinational complexion.

But in any event, there is nothing truly relational between the Afghan Conflict and the Arab Palestinian-Israeli Conflict.  Nearly all conflicts have similarities, and most conflicts, on an axis with North Africa - the Middle East - and Central Asia, usually have a hostile Islamic or radicalized Muslim/Jihadi component _(with the Sunni 'vs' Shi'ite Baggage)_.  And in most of these conflicts _(big and small)_, one side claims to be patriotic and fighting in the name of the common people against the unfair dominance of the other.  But then, that is where the useful universal similarities end... 



member said:


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*
(COMMENT)*

As far as the common theme used by the US for the purpose of intervention, the thread that is most similar is that of diplomatic incompetence and very poor leadership exhibited by both the military and civilian authority.  And that similarity runs right through the conflicts in Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan.  The conflict in Afghanistan from the American perspective_ [Operation Enduring Freedom – Afghanistan (2001–2014) and Operation Freedom's Sentinel (2015–present)] _now in its 17th year, will be longer than the 10,000 Day War (Vietnam).  And in that view, there is the common thread that America is unable to face the truth about its competence to be a world leader.

The mistakes made by America are always made by the last Administration.  The current Administration never admits to a mistake.  And it is this characteristic that is, in part, responsible for the continuation of the Arab Palestinian-Israeli Conflict.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Sixties Fan

The article in Palestine Today then gave some interesting statistics:

Gaza has 13 government hospitals and 54 primary health care centers, covering 95% of the medical services provided to more than 2 million Gazans, while the remaining services are covered by UNRWA clinics.

This means that UNRWA has built an entirely parallel medical care system - along with all the buildings, bureaucracy and overhead that this entails - to only cover 5% of the population.

According to UNRWA figures, about two thirds of all Gazans are "refugees" who can get services from the agency.

If that is true, then why do most of them use government medical facilities, and not UNRWA's?

(full article online)

Gaza ministry of health says that @UNRWA medical clinics only support 5% of population - when 67% are "refugees" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

The host says what most Arabs think - that all of Israel is "occupied" and that compensating Palestinians for any property they fled from would be disastrous for their "cause" - the cause of destroying Israel.

Abdelsalam Al-Majali: Is it better for them to remain hungry?

Host: And selling their land is better?

Abdelsalam Al-Majali: Well, what can you do? You lost the land to a military force. You do not have any power. All you do is talk. The Arabs do not have any power. If we ever have military power, will we let them keep Haifa? We'll take it. If tomorrow, we become stronger and can take Haifa by force, will we really decline just because we have an agreement with them?

---------
There we go. The most peaceful Jordanian one can find, an actual signatory to a peace agreement, admits that he would tear up the agreement if Jordan could destroy Israel militarily.

No one in the Western world wants to admit this but this is the way virtually all Arabs think. And there is nothing in their media that teaches true peace with Israel.

(full article online)

Even moderate Arabs support peace with Israel only until they get strong enough to win militarily ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Guardian op-ed defends the view that Israel has no right to exist.


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## Sixties Fan

Corbyn's criticism is justified. And the state, which deals with theft, murder and racist acts under the law of nationality, is rightly justified by this criticism."

(full article online)

Haneen Zoabi comes to Corbyn's defense over antisemitic criticisms


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## Sixties Fan

What`s the connection between the new PLO Head of Prisoners' Commission and the 1993 World Trade Center bombing? - PMW Bulletins


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## Sixties Fan

But in real life, the agency has laid off 113 workers in Gaza, 154 in the West Bank and around 100 in Jordan—about 370 in total. If that sounds like a lot, then you haven’t read UNRWA’s website, which proudly declares the agency “one of the largest United Nations programs, with over 30,000 personnel.” In short, these “extensive” cutbacks, as one media report termed them, total a little more than 1 percent of UNRWA’s enormous staff. That’s not something most organizations would label a crisis.

Moreover, UNRWA wouldn’t have any crisis at all if it weren’t outrageously overstaffed. It has almost three times as many employees as the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees, though the latter agency, which cares for all non-Palestinian refugees and displaced people worldwide, serves 12 times as many people. In other words, UNRWA has one employee for every 167 “refugees,” while UNHCR has one for every 5,200.

Nor would UNRWA have any problem if it didn’t endlessly expand its refugee rolls by including every refugee’s descendent for all eternity, even though most aren’t refugees at all, since they’re either citizens of other countries or residents of the West Bank and Gaza, which the United Nations itself deems the “State of Palestine.” The agency doesn’t even bother delisting many who are dead. In short, it has many ways to cut costs without causing a crisis.

Defense officials’ second fallacy is that Hamas providing services in UNRWA’s stead would somehow be bad. In reality, if Hamas had to provide services to the people it governs, it would have less money to spend on its endless military build-up, which would improve Israel’s security.

That’s exactly what happened last year, when the Palestinian Authority, which had previously financed all civilian services in Hamas-run Gaza not provided by UNRWA, stopped doing so. For the first time, Hamas had to pay for civilian needs like fuel for Gaza’s only power plant out of its own pocket. Consequently, according to Israeli intelligence, it slashed its annual military budget from $200 million in 2014 (the year of the last Hamas-Israel war) to $50 million last year. Even $70 million in military aid from Iran, then still flush with cash from the 2015 nuclear deal, couldn’t make up that shortfall.

(full article online)

Sacrificing Israel’s long-term interests for short-term gains


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## Sixties Fan

Owing to specific circumstances in our personal lives, we have a larger-than-usual sensitivity to the double-talk of self-important public officials. Still, we try to stay polite, considerate and respectful, so that we sometimes keep silent even when we feel the overwhelming urge to shout rudely and try to take those figures down a notch.

We're suspending the silence today to speak out about the man, *Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein*, who has just ended a term as "_the world's moral-arbiter-in-chief_" (according to *this US report* at the time of his appointment) and one of the most powerful operators in the United Nations civil service. His previous gigs have included being Jordan's ambassador to the UN for seven years, and then its ambassador to the US and to Mexico. He's a cousin of Jordan's current ruler, King Abdullah II and the next in line to the throne of Iraq. (The Hashemite clan of which Zeid is a member were granted royal domain over what we know today as Jordan and Iraq by the British in the 1920's.) A USA Today commentary pointed out "_the prince's lifelong ties to the Jordanian regime headed by his cousin... Zeid has not commented on Jordan's abuses, and some have questioned his suitability for the human-rights post_".

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 31-Aug-18: Lessons learned from the world's moral arbiter-in-chief


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## Sixties Fan

I found a mostly sympathetic paper about UNRWA called "UNRWA and the Palestinian refugees: a history within history" on the UNRWA website. It was written in 2010 by Riccardo Bocco for the Refugee Survey Quarterly.

Here is an interesting section:

 In looking at who is a Palestinian refugee, there is no definitive response. The definition and the number of Palestinian refugees can differ according to the approach (administrative, juridical, political) used to define Palestinian refugees and also according to the social context of interaction between Palestinians (registered refugees or not) and others and the actors defining them. UNRWA, particularly at the beginning of its mandate, lacked a fixed definition; this changed mainly due to a need to delimit the number of relief recipients. When the Agency began its activities, it inherited a legacy of inflated registration: the United Nations Economic Survey Mission recorded approximately 720,000 people, while the number of recipients on the ration rolls of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees (UNRPR) surpassed 950,000. It is the 1952 definition that has become the accepted one and has remained virtually unchanged: “a Palestine refugee shall mean any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period June 1, 1946 to May 15, 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict."

It is important to emphasize that the UNRWA definition of a Palestine refugee is an administrative one and does not translate directly into recognition by international law. 
-----------

Furthermore, a tacit understanding seems to prevail: UNRWA’s continued existence (and the associated Palestine refugee status) is directly linked to the realization of a permanent resolution to the Palestine refugee issue.UNRWA created the definition of "Palestine refugee," not the UN and not international law. It is an administrative definition, not a legal one. Today, practically zero of the current "Palestine refugees" are refugees; even most of the ones who fled in 1948 would not qualify under the legal definition since they were not fleeing persecution, as their brethren who remained behind prove.

*But the next sentence shows that UNRWA has a great disincentive to redefine "refugee" to be closer to the legal definition: if it did so, it would not exist.* Its very existence, Bocco notes, is dependent on there being no solution to the refugee issue - so why would UNRWA want to change the definition that would render it unnecessary?

(full article online)

.@UNRWA site hosts document that admits that Palestinians aren't refugees under international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Palestinians step up attacks on Trump administration


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Why are Palestinian refugees different from all other refugees?


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Why are Palestinian refugees different from all other refugees?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Why are Palestinian refugees different from all other refugees?
Click to expand...


Ya’ Allah, dude. Not another dumping of that spam YouTube video.


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## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Why are Palestinian refugees different from all other refugees?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> Why are Palestinian refugees different from all other refugees?
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Yawn..,,,,  Won’t happen. What is “ forgotten” is one key phrase” Live in peace with your neighbors” The Palestinians haven’t demonstrated that.  Not too long ago I posted a You Tube Video in which the Palestinians reluctantly stated that they probably could but they would consider the ENTIRE area as “ Palestine”.
     I am paraphrasing but not long ago Tinmore posted something that stated not even “ International Law” took precedence over keeping people out of territories they had historical rights to.  That includes E. Jerusalem for the Israelis.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


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> Ya’ Allah, dude. Not another dumping of that spam YouTube video.
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Sixties asked a question. The video answers it.


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


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> Sixties asked a question. The video answers it.
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If it takes three hours to answer Sixties questions, its gotta be a whole lot of bullshit.  Can you sum up in a paragraph the answer to the question?  Better yet, sum it up in a single sentence.  If your argument is good and objective, it should be easy to do that.

Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?


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## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


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> If it takes three hours to answer Sixties questions, its gotta be a whole lot of bullshit.  Can you sum up in a paragraph the answer to the question?  Better yet, sum it up in a single sentence.  If your argument is good and objective, it should be easy to do that.
> 
> Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?
Click to expand...

The UN had a responsibility for the Palestinians that they did not have for other refugees.


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


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> 
> Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had a responsibility for the Palestinians that they did not have for other refugees.
Click to expand...



Why would the UN have a different responsibility towards Arab Palestinians than any other refugees in the history of the UN?

Why would the UN ha e a different responsibility towards the Arab people uprooted in 1947-1948 as compared to the Syrians of today?  Or the Sudanese?  Or the Rohingya?  Or any other peoples?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


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> If it takes three hours to answer Sixties questions, its gotta be a whole lot of bullshit.  Can you sum up in a paragraph the answer to the question?  Better yet, sum it up in a single sentence.  If your argument is good and objective, it should be easy to do that.
> 
> Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had a responsibility for the Palestinians that they did not have for other refugees.
Click to expand...


No, they did not.


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## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


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> 
> Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?
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> The UN had a responsibility for the Palestinians that they did not have for other refugees.
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> Why would the UN have a different responsibility towards Arab Palestinians than any other refugees in the history of the UN?
> 
> Why would the UN ha e a different responsibility towards the Arab people uprooted in 1947-1948 as compared to the Syrians of today?  Or the Sudanese?  Or the Rohingya?  Or any other peoples?
Click to expand...

If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.


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## Hollie

At long last, we here in the Great Satan have made the decision (which should have been made decades ago), that we will not pay to enable Islamic terrorism and will not pay to supply incredible wealth to the UNRWA welfare fraud.
*

US ends all funding to UN agency for Palestinian refugees*

UN agency for Palestinian refugees loses US funding - CNNPolitics

Washington (CNN)The United States is ending all funding to the United Nations agency tasked with supporting Palestinian refugees, the US State Department said Friday, describing the body as "irredeemably flawed."

The United States has long been the biggest single donor to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, known as UNRWA, donating more than $350 million to the agency in 2017.




Lets see the Arab league make up the shortfall. 

When pigs fly.


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## Hollie

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> If it takes three hours to answer Sixties questions, its gotta be a whole lot of bullshit.  Can you sum up in a paragraph the answer to the question?  Better yet, sum it up in a single sentence.  If your argument is good and objective, it should be easy to do that.
> 
> Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had a responsibility for the Palestinians that they did not have for other refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Why would the UN have a different responsibility towards Arab Palestinians than any other refugees in the history of the UN?
> 
> Why would the UN ha e a different responsibility towards the Arab people uprooted in 1947-1948 as compared to the Syrians of today?  Or the Sudanese?  Or the Rohingya?  Or any other peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.
Click to expand...


Ya, Allah. False premise. That phony YouTube video appeals only to goofy  Islamist propaganda.


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## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.



If you had watched the three hours (more?  Is there a Part 4?) of the video, you should be able to sum up the basic concepts in a few sentences.  This is a debate board, not a movie theatre.  

So tell me, why are Arab Palestinians so special that we have to redefine terms like "refugees" for them?


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## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you had watched the three hours (more?  Is there a Part 4?) of the video, you should be able to sum up the basic concepts in a few sentences.  This is a debate board, not a movie theatre.
> 
> So tell me, why are Arab Palestinians so special that we have to redefine terms like "refugees" for them?
Click to expand...

Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Well, let us take a look at it, shall we?


The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that “refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.”

Resolution 194 | UNRWA


Who knew?  Most of those Arabs expelled from what became Israel did not want to live in peace with the Jews in Israel.
Sorry, those cannot return.

Now, Jews do know how to live in peace with their neighbors and host countries, BUT, Jordan will not allow the Jews to return to the homes they were expelled from.

Neither can Jews return to Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Hebron and other parts of Judea and Samaria taken over by the Arab Muslims after 1920.....and many other countries where they were expelled since 1920.


Let us put it this way, according to Tinmore:


Arabs have EVERY RIGHT  to return to their homes in what is now Israel.

Jews have NO RIGHT AT ALL to even think about returning to the homes and businesses and lands they were forced to leave behind after 1920.


AND THAT.......is the definition of a refugee


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.



UNGA Resolution 194 does not create law.  Nor does it define the term "refugee".  It uses that term, but does not define it. 

You have not answered by question.  Why is there a special definition of "refugee" for Arabs?  Why is there a special "right of return" for Arabs?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

Our friend "Shusha" is absolutely correct.  General Resolution •  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948  • DOES NOT constitute "International Law."  In the entirety of the Resolution, the word "refugee is only used three times; all of them being found in Paragraph 11.

And!  The word "refugee" was not defined until the "Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (CRSR)."  It excludes those that --- "at present receiving _[services]_ from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) protection or assistance."  That would be the Arab Palestinians." and Entry into force 22 April 1954, and the associated 1997 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (PRSR).  The CRSR and the PRSR are two different documents. 

The Arab Palestinian Refugees are excluded from the services and benefits of the UNHCR as a result of the exclusion _(supra)_ (_Chapter I General Provision --- __Article 1 Definition of the term "refugee" --- Para D_).



P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.


*(COMMENT)*

The oath taken by the Arab Palestinians in February 1948, that they will "never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition" seems to rule-out the provision that the Arab Palestinians will "live at peace with their neighbors."  This was reaffirmed by the Arab Palestinians in both 1968 Charter and in the 1988 Covenant with the pledge that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase." --- and --- "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." 



			
				EXCERPT:  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 said:
			
		

> 11. _Resolves_ that the *refugees* wishing to return to their homes and *live at peace with their neighbours* should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;
> 
> Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the *refugees* and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine *Refugees* and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;



You should also notice that the General Assembly Resolution DOES NOT instruct or demand that the State of Israel make any repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the *refugees* and the payment of compensation; but rather it "instructs" the 'United Nations Conciliation Commission to facilitate those actions.  UN General Assembly Resolution did not obligate the Israelis to any action.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

*(SIDEBAR)*

There is an interesting two interesting questions:

•  ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled _(1970)_ from Jordan are true refugees?
•  ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens _(when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988)_ are true refugees?​
*Just a Thought.*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> There is an interesting two interesting questions:
> 
> •  ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled _(1970)_ from Jordan are true refugees?
> •  ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens _(when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988)_ are true refugees?​
> *Just a Thought.*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Jordan is a non issue. It is illegal to annex occupied territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "Shusha" is absolutely correct.  General Resolution •  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948  • DOES NOT constitute "International Law."  In the entirety of the Resolution, the word "refugee is only used three times; all of them being found in Paragraph 11.
> 
> And!  The word "refugee" was not defined until the "Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (CRSR)."  It excludes those that --- "at present receiving _[services]_ from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) protection or assistance."  That would be the Arab Palestinians." and Entry into force 22 April 1954, and the associated 1997 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (PRSR).  The CRSR and the PRSR are two different documents.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian Refugees are excluded from the services and benefits of the UNHCR as a result of the exclusion _(supra)_ (_Chapter I General Provision --- __Article 1 Definition of the term "refugee" --- Para D_).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The oath taken by the Arab Palestinians in February 1948, that they will "never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition" seems to rule-out the provision that the Arab Palestinians will "live at peace with their neighbors."  This was reaffirmed by the Arab Palestinians in both 1968 Charter and in the 1988 Covenant with the pledge that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase." --- and --- "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11. _Resolves_ that the *refugees* wishing to return to their homes and *live at peace with their neighbours* should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;
> 
> Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the *refugees* and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine *Refugees* and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should also notice that the General Assembly Resolution DOES NOT instruct or demand that the State of Israel make any repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the *refugees* and the payment of compensation; but rather it "instructs" the 'United Nations Conciliation Commission to facilitate those actions.  UN General Assembly Resolution did not obligate the Israelis to any action.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> to rule-out the provision that the Arab Palestinians will "live at peace with their neighbors."


Twenty percent of Israel's citizens are Palestinians living at peace with their neighbors. That is just Israel's excuse to deny the Palestinians their right to return.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

Your question was answered.  It seems that the Arab Palestinians has a habit of biting the hand that feeds them.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> There is an interesting two interesting questions:
> 
> •  ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled _(1970)_ from Jordan are true refugees?
> •  ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens _(when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988)_ are true refugees?​
> *Just a Thought.*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is a non issue. It is illegal to annex occupied territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

That is a very big difference between you and I.  I know that Jordan can have a very positive impact on the regional security, economics, commerce, and diplomacy.  It can have a very important impact on the quality of life for its people and the people of states for which they cooperate on these matters.

Jordan is an issue.

As for annexation, International Law does not say:  "It is illegal to annex occupied territory."  In fact, International Law does not even outline the procedures or processes for annexation.  What International Law implies that the acquisition of territory through force is illegal.  Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes.  Israel did not acquire any territory through force _("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war")_ from the State of Palestine.

Remember, there was a time in 1988 when Jordan abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, and for which there was no formal State of Palestine or Government over the West Bank and Jerusalem.

The question becomes:  Did Israel ever extend its "sovereignty" or "effective control" over any territory being held in the sovereignty of the Palestinians?  The answer is "NO."  In fact, even today, the Ramallah Government has a hard time defining what territory they actually hold sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Your question was answered.  It seems that the Arab Palestinians has a habit of biting the hand that feeds them.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> There is an interesting two interesting questions:
> 
> •  ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled _(1970)_ from Jordan are true refugees?
> •  ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens _(when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988)_ are true refugees?​
> *Just a Thought.*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan is a non issue. It is illegal to annex occupied territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That is a very big difference between you and I.  I know that Jordan can have a very positive impact on the regional security, economics, commerce, and diplomacy.  It can have a very important impact on the quality of life for its people and the people of states for which they cooperate on these matters.
> 
> Jordan is an issue.
> 
> As for annexation, International Law does not say:  "It is illegal to annex occupied territory."  In fact, International Law does not even outline the procedures or processes for annexation.  What International Law implies that the acquisition of territory through force is illegal.  Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes.  Israel did not acquire any territory through force _("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war")_ from the State of Palestine.
> 
> Remember, there was a time in 1988 when Jordan abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, and for which there was no formal State of Palestine or Government over the West Bank and Jerusalem.
> 
> The question becomes:  Did Israel ever extend its "sovereignty" or "effective control" over any territory being held in the sovereignty of the Palestinians?  The answer is "NO."  In fact, even today, the Ramallah Government has a hard time defining what territory they actually hold sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes. Israel did not acquire any territory through force _("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war")_ from the State of Palestine.


That is just Israeli say so. It is not true.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes. Israel did not acquire any territory through force _("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war")_ from the State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> That is just Israeli say so. It is not true.
Click to expand...


The Jewish people have a legal right entrenched in law and treaties to AT LEAST SOME portion of the territory (and many, including me, would argue they are legally entitled to ALL of it, less Jordan).  Given that the partition has never been formalized in law (a treaty), there is absolutely no legal basis to say that Israel has 'acquired' territory at all through force.  There is simply no legal partitioning of the territory as yet, thus there is no legal claim that Israel 'has acquired more than she has a right to".  Through force or any other means.


----------



## Shusha

Well, unless you subscribe to the ridiculous notion that the Jewish people have no access to those universal, inviolable, inherent rights Tinmore keeps bringing up.  And we know what the descriptive word for THAT is.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Yeap, ONLY if one includes Israel into it.  All of it.  Lets laugh ]

Abbas to Peace Now: Trump offered Palestinian-Jordanian 'confederation'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians upset that Israel won't allow an Arab clan to murder a member of another clan  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Washington Post falsely claims that UNRWA and UNHCR share the same definition of refugees ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab MKs rally behind Corbyn, praise his ‘unflinching’ Palestinian support


----------



## Hollie

We interrupt our regularly scheduled gee-had for this PSA regarding a shiny new fatwa issued by the _Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council_, aka, _The Islamic Association of Dark Age Loons_.


*PA forbids Palestinians to seek election or vote 
in the Jerusalem municipal elections in October
*
PA forbids Palestinians to seek election or vote in the Jerusalem municipal elections in October - PMW Bulletins

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The Palestinian Authority wants Palestinians to neither run for election nor to vote when Israel holds Jerusalem municipal elections in October. In fact, the PA’s top religious body has forbidden it in the name of Islam:
“The Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council issued a religious ruling that bans running or voting in the occupation’s municipal elections in occupied Jerusalem... it emphasized that voting or running in the municipal elections is forbidden by religious law, since this matter is subject to the rules of benefit and damage - which the sources of authority for estimating them are the knowledgeable religious scholars who know what the results will be - and there is no doubt at all that the damages that will be caused as a result of the participation are huge compared to the benefits.”
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 31, 2018]


“*forbidden it in the name of Islam:*”

Any questions, infidels?

We now return you to regularly scheduled program.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Well, unless you subscribe to the ridiculous notion that the Jewish people have no access to those universal, inviolable, inherent rights Tinmore keeps bringing up.  And we know what the descriptive word for THAT is.



I think it’s a mistake to believe _The Tinmore Notion™️ _is anything other than largely mainstream Islamic orthodoxy.

I would direct you to the Islamic source material. 61:9, 48:28, 9:33

For Israelis, there is the added dynamic of the virulent anti-Semitism endemic to Islam and the Arab world. The privations, pogroms, and subjugation visited upon the Jews, Christians and non-believers living in dhimmitude in Arab nations is well documented throughout the ages. The Jews are depicted in the koran and several sunna in the most lurid ways, which is easily interpreted as grounds to indulge in hatred and persecution against them. In the Arab press, all manner of lies and slander about the Jews and Israel are presented as fact. To Arab/Moslem sensibilities, it is an affront that not only did the despised Jew return to claim his homeland, but he additionally brought Western democratic ideals and developed the means to defend them. I think the fact that the Jews and Christians fight back now--more than effectively— and have surpassed the Islamic world in every imaginable measure is a lasting humiliation to Moslems , actually.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I’m sure I’m far from the only audience member who saw that scene and pondered what life would be like if the actual head of the P.A. was someone like the fictional Abu Maher, instead of Mahmoud Abbas or the other real-life Fatah functionaries who are still fixated on the century-old war against Zionism (in which they have yet to admit defeat). With such a person leading the Palestinians, a two-state solution might indeed be possible.

(full article online)

‘Fauda’ and the two-state scenario


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority continues to defy and mock its donors. Although donors have repeatedly condemned the PA's policy of naming schools and community centers after terrorists and murderers and have refused to fund them, the PA continues to name schools after terrorists. Occasionally the PA pretends to comply with donor demands to stop terror glorification. This is one of those cases. 

_*This is how the PA deceives Europe and keeps the funding flowing:*_

*Sept. 27, 2017: *PMW exposes that PA named a Belgium-funded school after a terrorist murderer: "*The Martyr Dalal Mughrabi Elementary School*"

*Oct. 9, 2017: *Belgium freezes funding of PA schools and demands name change

*July 31, 2018: *PMW notifies Belgium that the school is still named "*The Martyr Dalal Mughrabi Elementary School*"

*Aug. 10, 2018: *Belgium reiterates that it "unequivocally condemns the glorification of terrorist attacks," through PA schools 

*Two weeks later, Aug. 23, 2018: *PA removes terrorist's name from school and renames it: "*The Belgian School*" 

*Same day: Aug. 23, 2018: *PA changes name of nearby school, *The Beit Awwa Elementary School for Girls* to *The Martyr Dalal Mughrabi Elementary School
*
*Three days later, Aug. 26, 2018: *PA adds insult to Belgium by naming a second school after the same terrorist murderer: 
*The Second Dalal Mughrabi Republic School*
*Summary of Belgium's sincere efforts:* 
Two schools - instead of one - in the *Beit Awwa district of Hebron* are now named after *terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi*

On Sept. 27, 2017, when Palestinian Media Watch first exposed that a Palestinian Authority elementary school built with Belgian funding was named after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 37 Israeli civilians, Belgium immediately condemned the PA, announced a freeze of funding, and demanded that the name be changed. Last month, PMW discovered and exposed that the school continued to be called The Martyr Dalal Mughrabi Elementary School. In response, the Belgian government again publicly condemned the PA practice:
"A spokesperson for the Belgian Foreign Ministry told _The Algemeiner_ in response that the country stood by its previously articulated policy regarding support to schools in the Palestinian territories, which 'unequivocally condemns the glorification of terrorist attacks.' He affirmed that the decision to suspend two Palestinian school construction projects in the West Bank 'remains in effect until further notice.'" 
[_The Algemeiner_, Aug. 10, 2018]

(full article online)

PA mocks Belgium: Names two more schools after terrorist murderer - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

One could find some justification for the PLO to meet with Hamas - after all, Hamas is the de facto ruler of Gaza and sometimes they would need to talk.

But Islamic Jihad is nothing but a terror group. It has no purpose except to kill Israeli Jews in an attempt to terrorize them and ultimately destroy Israel.

The PLO has far more in common with Islamic Jihad than it has with the governments of Israel or the US, which it refuses to meet with. It is more offended by Israel offers of peace than by Islamic Jihad's pledge of eternal holy war against the Jewish presence in the Middle East.

The PLO's tolerance for and support of terror are not impediments to western European countries falling over themselves to meet with them in European capitals.

(full article online)

The PLO refuses to meet with Israel and the US, but happily meets with Islamic Jihad ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Joan Peters is sorely missed right now. Four years after her death and 34 years after the publication of her bestselling book "From Time Immemorial," the U.S. administration is recognizing her claims about so-called Palestinian refugeeism.

Through her thorough research, Peters was the first to expose the lie that is Palestinian refugeeism. Now, when UNRWA, the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, is trying to fool the world into believing there are 5.2 million Palestinian refugees, is the perfect time to return to Peters and her grand opus.


(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/a-salute-to-joan-peters/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.

As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:

 “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.

Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?

Not a whole lot.

But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?

About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.

(full article online)

Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The case of Abu Jhaisheh is neither new nor unique. In fact, his experience is part of a systematic campaign waged by both the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas to silence their critics and deter Palestinian journalists from criticizing their leaders -- a campaign that has long been ignored by the Western mainstream media, whose representatives choose to pretend that the PA and Hamas security agencies are somehow innocent of any wrongdoing.


"Failure to prosecute violators of media freedoms is not only a breach of human rights and prevents the attainment of justice, but it is also an indirect authorization to continue committing such violations." — Palestinian Center for Development and Media Freedoms.


Why are these purported human rights organizations and the international community, which describe themselves as committed to protecting freedom and the rights of the Palestinian people, always silent?

(full article online)

Palestinian Journalists: We Do Not Have a Free Media


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.
> 
> As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:
> 
> “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.
> 
> Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?
> 
> Not a whole lot.
> 
> But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?
> 
> About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Israel has always been trying to dump its refugees onto someone else.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.
> 
> As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:
> 
> “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.
> 
> Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?
> 
> Not a whole lot.
> 
> But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?
> 
> About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has always been trying to dump its refugees onto someone else.
Click to expand...


You turn facts upside down, unlike the UNRWA generational welfare cheats,
in 1952 Israel has official taken responsibility of its' refugees and for the course of a decade resettled 850,000 of them.

*Q.When are Arabs going to grant their own people the same rights and compensate for the property loss caused on both sides?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.
> 
> As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:
> 
> “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.
> 
> Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?
> 
> Not a whole lot.
> 
> But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?
> 
> About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has always been trying to dump its refugees onto someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turn facts upside down, unlike the UNRWA generational welfare cheats,
> in 1952 Israel has official taken responsibility of its' refugees and for the course of a decade resettled 850,000 of them.
> 
> *Q.When are Arabs going to grant their own people the same rights and compensate for the property loss caused on both sides?*
Click to expand...

Two separate and unrelated issues.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.
> 
> As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:
> 
> “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.
> 
> Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?
> 
> Not a whole lot.
> 
> But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?
> 
> About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has always been trying to dump its refugees onto someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turn facts upside down, unlike the UNRWA generational welfare cheats,
> in 1952 Israel has official taken responsibility of its' refugees and for the course of a decade resettled 850,000 of them.
> 
> *Q.When are Arabs going to grant their own people the same rights and compensate for the property loss caused on both sides?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
Click to expand...


Your logic just doesn't work,
how can one demand a special status as a refugee while enjoying 2-3 registered nationalities?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.
> 
> As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:
> 
> “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.
> 
> Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?
> 
> Not a whole lot.
> 
> But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?
> 
> About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has always been trying to dump its refugees onto someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turn facts upside down, unlike the UNRWA generational welfare cheats,
> in 1952 Israel has official taken responsibility of its' refugees and for the course of a decade resettled 850,000 of them.
> 
> *Q.When are Arabs going to grant their own people the same rights and compensate for the property loss caused on both sides?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your logic just doesn't work,
> how can one demand a special status as a refugee while enjoying 2-3 registered nationalities?
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Post article about UNRWA, but one section needs to be analyzed a bit further.
> 
> As far as I know, no one has directly ever asked UNRWA why two millions full Jordanian citizens should still be considered "refugees" and why they should deserve some 40% of all UNRWA funds. But the question has been floating out there, and UNRWA spokeperson Chris Gunness indirectly addressed it in this quote:
> 
> “They have to decide,” said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness. “We couldn’t say to you, ‘You’re a citizen now’ ” — as Jordan has declared some 2 million Palestinians in that country — “ ‘you have to give up the right of return.’ ”Gunness is admitting that Jordanian Palestinians are not really refugees, but that UNRWA exists in Jordan in order to maintain the fiction that there is a "right of return" for Palestinians even if they are full citizens of any country worldwide.
> 
> Now, how much money does it cost to tell Palestinians that they have the right to "return" and destroy Israel (which is what "return" means to begin with)?
> 
> Not a whole lot.
> 
> But how much does it cost to keep the issue of "return" on the international agenda?
> 
> About $1.2 billion a year, which is UNRWA's budget.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Chris Gunness indirectly admits that @UNRWA exists not to help "refugees" but to help eliminate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has always been trying to dump its refugees onto someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turn facts upside down, unlike the UNRWA generational welfare cheats,
> in 1952 Israel has official taken responsibility of its' refugees and for the course of a decade resettled 850,000 of them.
> 
> *Q.When are Arabs going to grant their own people the same rights and compensate for the property loss caused on both sides?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two separate and unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your logic just doesn't work,
> how can one demand a special status as a refugee while enjoying 2-3 registered nationalities?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


How many of those so called 'refugees' have at least 2 nationalities?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Arabs have been using the UN to avoid their own responsibilities of supporting their brethren (Palestinian and other) for decades.

(full article online)

Arab states specifically wanted the UN to be responsible for Palestinians from the start to avoid their own responsibilities ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## toobfreak

Art__Allm said:


> *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*




*Answer's pretty simple really*, without all the empty garbage-headed hate-trolling.  The Palestinians were nomadic people like the Israelites who many decades ago when offered a deal to settle with a finite piece of land chose instead to gamble and fight to take the whole piece of pie for themselves and lost.  Now they are screwed, it has been sour grapes ever since, and they only have their Arab brothers to thank for it.


----------



## Hollie

Those crafty Jews have invented some new technology that injures Arab-Moslems but can’t be captured on camera. 

At least according to those conspiracy addled, paranoid, superstitious Dark Age types who really do struggle to exist in the modern age. 
*



Israel invented a unique way of injuring Palestinians 
that "cameras are incapable of revealing," 
says Fatah official*
By Itamar Marcus

Israel invented a unique way of injuring Palestinians that "cameras are incapable of revealing," says Fatah official - PMW Bulletins

Israel is well-known for its state of the art inventions and innovations within science, technology, and many other different fields.
Adding to the list of Israeli inventions, a Fatah official explained on official PA TV that Israel has come up with a way of injuring Palestinians that is undetectable by any camera. Even though it is possible for the eye to see "the blue and red marks" of the injuries, the camera cannot record it:
















*Fatah Salfit Branch Secretary Abd Al-Sattar Awwad:* "When an Israeli soldier directly grabs a civilian in this way, his body immediately receives blue or red marks. They have a policy that they can injure in a certain way. They injure a person in this way despite the cameras. The cameras can't reveal this policy that they implement. I've seen their bodies [injured] in this way - blue and red marks - by the occupation forces, which the cameras are incapable of revealing."
[Official PA TV, _Topic of the Day_, July 10, 2018]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Some photos of the closing ceremonies at Islamic Jihad's summer camps in Gaza.

Didn't your daily camp line-ups look like this?
















Their counselor looks like a nice chap.

(full article online)

Look! Islamic Jihad has "summer camp" just like us! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Those crafty Jews have invented some new technology that injures Arab-Moslems but can’t be captured on camera.
> 
> At least according to those conspiracy addled, paranoid, superstitious Dark Age types who really do struggle to exist in the modern age.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Israel invented a unique way of injuring Palestinians
> that "cameras are incapable of revealing,"
> says Fatah official*
> By Itamar Marcus
> 
> Israel invented a unique way of injuring Palestinians that "cameras are incapable of revealing," says Fatah official - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Israel is well-known for its state of the art inventions and innovations within science, technology, and many other different fields.
> Adding to the list of Israeli inventions, a Fatah official explained on official PA TV that Israel has come up with a way of injuring Palestinians that is undetectable by any camera. Even though it is possible for the eye to see "the blue and red marks" of the injuries, the camera cannot record it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah Salfit Branch Secretary Abd Al-Sattar Awwad:* "When an Israeli soldier directly grabs a civilian in this way, his body immediately receives blue or red marks. They have a policy that they can injure in a certain way. They injure a person in this way despite the cameras. The cameras can't reveal this policy that they implement. I've seen their bodies [injured] in this way - blue and red marks - by the occupation forces, which the cameras are incapable of revealing."
> [Official PA TV, _Topic of the Day_, July 10, 2018]




Its the super secret hasbara Krav Maga.  Where do I sign up?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shift to UNHCR criteria would strip refugee status from millions of Palestinians


----------



## Hollie

It’s time for another episode of _*Mr. Mufti Says*_™️

In this episode we learn “who are the infidels, and how do you become one”

Jerusalem mufti: Palestinian refugees must not accept compensation for land

*Jerusalem mufti: Palestinian refugees must not accept compensation for land*
Jerusalem mufti: The Palestinian refugees must not accept compensation for their land—and any who do so are infidels and are betraying Allah and the homeland


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ THESE   are the Palestinians  ]

The IDF issued a statement saying the closure of the crossing is needed to repair the damage caused by the violence that took place on Tuesday, and that traffic through the Erez Crossing will be approved only in humanitarian cases or on an individual basis.

Hundreds of rioters arrived Tuesday afternoon Gazan side and of the Erez Crossing and began throwing stones and damaging the facility.

Ma’an also reported on Wednesday that Israel has agreed to a “series of gestures” to ease the crisis in the Gaza Strip, among them an increase in the amount of fuel delivered into the Gaza Strip to produce electricity, and the entry of medical equipment financed by international organizations.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...eventing-goods-from-entering-gaza/2018/09/05/


----------



## Sixties Fan

In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.


The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.


So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.


Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.


Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.


(full article online)

Palestinians: Spitting in the Well


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.
> 
> 
> The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.
> 
> 
> So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.
> 
> 
> Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.
> 
> 
> Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Spitting in the Well


What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.
> 
> 
> The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.
> 
> 
> So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.
> 
> 
> Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.
> 
> 
> Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Spitting in the Well
> 
> 
> 
> What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.
Click to expand...


They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem psyche is a very dark place. It's a pathology that manifests itself in the most paranoid expression of fear and ignorance. 
*

PLO official: Israel is trying to
 "flood the Palestinian street with drugs"
*
PLO official: Israel is trying to "flood the Palestinian street with drugs" - PMW Bulletins
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Drug use and growing of drugs is a big problem in the PA and Israel is behind efforts to "flood the Palestinian street with drugs," according to Commissioner of the PLO Political and National Guidance Authority Nasser Nimr Ayyad. [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 31, 2018]

Calling for a national campaign to fight drugs, Ayyad stated that there are "frantic attempts to turn Palestine into a producer of this destructive plague by turning agricultural lands into nurseries of death for the production of drugs:" 

"During his meeting with Head of the General Directorate for the War Against Drugs in the police forces Abdallah Aliwi yesterday, Ayyad added... the frantic activity to which we are witness recently of criminals that are planting drugs in most of the districts, in addition to t*he efforts of the occupation and criminal drug dealers to flood the Palestinian street with all types of drugs and to make it easier to obtain them through low prices*, constitute a dangerous sign that necessitates the enlistment of all of the government and civil sectors, and also of the factions and clergy, in order to come out against the destructive war that has been declared against the Palestinian people."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 31, 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sarsour: American Muslims Shouldn’t ‘Humanize’ Israelis


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Sarsour is trash.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.
> 
> 
> The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.
> 
> 
> So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.
> 
> 
> Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.
> 
> 
> Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Spitting in the Well
> 
> 
> 
> What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with improving economic infrastructures.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.
> 
> 
> The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.
> 
> 
> So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.
> 
> 
> Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.
> 
> 
> Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Spitting in the Well
> 
> 
> 
> What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with improving economic infrastructures.
Click to expand...


Correct. Arabs-Moslems forever exploiting a welfare fraud syndicate will do little to improve infrastructure. 

You laggards and layabouts need to work for a living.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Sarsour: American Muslims Shouldn’t ‘Humanize’ Israelis


Cool sour grapes article.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.
> 
> 
> The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.
> 
> 
> So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.
> 
> 
> Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.
> 
> 
> Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Spitting in the Well
> 
> 
> 
> What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with improving economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct. Arabs-Moslems forever exploiting a welfare fraud syndicate will do little to improve infrastructure.
> 
> You laggards and layabouts need to work for a living.
Click to expand...

That is why they have to get Israel out of the way.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality, the Palestinians have one main message for the US administration: We hate you and incite against you, but we fully expect that you will continue providing us with cash, to the tune of billions of dollars. And, when you do try to help us, we reserve the right to spit in your face.
> 
> 
> The entire existence of Fatah, the faction that dominates and controls the Palestinian Authority, relies heavily on financial aid from the US, EU and other Western donors.
> 
> 
> So, while the protesters in Ramallah were demanding that the US rescind its decision to cut off its funding to UNRWA, Abbas's men in east Jerusalem were trying to block a US-sponsored meeting to discuss ways of helping the Palestinian economy.
> 
> 
> Abbas and his top officials in Ramallah evidently want to have it both ways -- to continue their incitement against the Trump administration while being bankrolled by US taxpayer money.
> 
> 
> Abbas and company would do well to learn that when they spit in the well they drink from, the water they draw will be bitter indeed.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Spitting in the Well
> 
> 
> 
> What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with improving economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct. Arabs-Moslems forever exploiting a welfare fraud syndicate will do little to improve infrastructure.
> 
> You laggards and layabouts need to work for a living.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why they have to get Israel out of the way.
Click to expand...


The islamic terrorist welfare fraud otherwise known as UNRWA is what they have to get out of the way.

As usual, you need an excuse for your failures and ineptitude. Laziness and incompetence is what you need to overcome.

How ironic that you're too lazy to do anything but bang away at your keyboard, demanding that "they" have to get Israel out of the way.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was proposed to improve the economy. They didn't say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with improving economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct. Arabs-Moslems forever exploiting a welfare fraud syndicate will do little to improve infrastructure.
> 
> You laggards and layabouts need to work for a living.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why they have to get Israel out of the way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamic terrorist welfare fraud otherwise known as UNRWA is what they have to get out of the way.
> 
> As usual, you need an excuse for your failures and ineptitude. Laziness and incompetence is what you need to overcome.
> 
> How ironic that you're too lazy to do anything but bang away at your keyboard, demanding that "they" have to get Israel out of the way.
Click to expand...

You are a hoot.

Links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did say. The Arabs-Moslems want their welfare fraud money.
> 
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with improving economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct. Arabs-Moslems forever exploiting a welfare fraud syndicate will do little to improve infrastructure.
> 
> You laggards and layabouts need to work for a living.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why they have to get Israel out of the way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The islamic terrorist welfare fraud otherwise known as UNRWA is what they have to get out of the way.
> 
> As usual, you need an excuse for your failures and ineptitude. Laziness and incompetence is what you need to overcome.
> 
> How ironic that you're too lazy to do anything but bang away at your keyboard, demanding that "they" have to get Israel out of the way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Your usual retreat. 

Need a link to your posted comments?


----------



## Hollie

I believe it's misleading to suggest that the use of children by islamic terrorist "Pal'istanians" for attacks aimed at Israel is a new tactic. Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians" have a long and ugly history of grooming children from the earliest age to be Splodeydopes. 

Everything from the Hamas summer gee-had camps which are modeled on the Hitler Youth program to the indoctrination of the Islamo yutes at Friday indoctrination at mosques, ie. schools of hate, are intended to teach that mass murder / suicide in the name of their politico- religious ideology is the highest achievement of the Moslem.  


*Palestinian Child Terrorists Become New Face of Terror Against Israel*

Palestinian Child Terrorists Become New Face of Terror Against Israel





A Palestinian protester throws a molotov cocktail / Getty Images
September 6, 2018 5:00 pm

The Palestinians continue to groom and employ an increasing number of child terrorists to launch strikes on Israel, throwing into further question the ability of the Palestinian government to form a legitimate state, according to a new report on child terrorists and their enablers provided to the _Washington Free Beacon_.

At least 18 Palestinian child terrorists ranging in ages from 13 to 18 years old have been caught carrying out terrorist attacks in the first eight months of 2018, including stabbing attacks, bombings, and other types of violent terrorism, according to a new report issued by the Human Rights Voices organization, which tracks and analyzes these attacks.

Since 2015, there has been an alarming use of child terrorists by the Palestinians, according to the report, which found "at least 142 separate terrorist attacks by at least 174 Palestinian children" since September of that year. These attacks led to the deaths of seven Israelis and wounding of 58 others, including some who were children themselves.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sarsour: American Muslims Shouldn’t ‘Humanize’ Israelis
> 
> 
> 
> Cool sour grapes article.
Click to expand...


Interesting comment from someone who posts videos of speakers who whine that Israelis "dehumanize" Arab Palestinians.  Double standards much?


----------



## Hollie

*UK Charity Linked to Palestinian Terrorism*

UK Charity Linked to Palestinian Terrorism

Yet another instance of aid misused to promote terrorism and anti-Semitism has been exposed.

By: United with Israel Staff

The United Kingdom charity “War on Want” is linked to terrorist organizations, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP), say The Lawfare Project and UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI), who have filed a complaint to the Charity Commission for England and Wales.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic dictators, caliphate’ists, Ayatollahs, Mullocrats, etc., have an uninterrupted history of revulsion for religious / ethnic minorities. That's precisely why islam's history is replete with examples of intolerance and violence directed at non-Moslems. This dynamic continues as exampled by the hate and intolerance directed at minorities across the Islamist Middle East . The facts are, that Moslems, when in the majority, have typically used violence, fear and intimidation to establish their position of superiority. The dehumanizing rules of "protection" (dhimmitude), aimed at minorities is little different than the tactics employed by organized crime.





*Israeli Experts: UNRWA Textbooks Draw Palestinian Children Toward Terrorism*

Israeli Experts: UNRWA Textbooks Draw Palestinian Children Toward Terrorism

JERUSALEM, Israel – President Trump recently cut funding to UNRWA, the UN body responsible for Palestinian refugees. While there has been uproar over that decision, critics of UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency) point to its education system, claiming it could be encouraging a new generation of terrorists.  

One example is Dalal Mughrabi. She's pictured in textbooks as a harmless, beautiful young woman in a Palestinian headscarf.   

"But who is this? Dalal Mughrabi, who led a terrorist attack and murdered 38 people, including 13 children, on the coastal road of Israel in 1978," said David Bedein, founder of the Israel Resource News Agency.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *UK Charity Linked to Palestinian Terrorism*
> 
> UK Charity Linked to Palestinian Terrorism
> 
> Yet another instance of aid misused to promote terrorism and anti-Semitism has been exposed.
> 
> By: United with Israel Staff
> 
> The United Kingdom charity “War on Want” is linked to terrorist organizations, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP), say The Lawfare Project and UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI), who have filed a complaint to the Charity Commission for England and Wales.


This is why Israel lies about War on Want.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UK Charity Linked to Palestinian Terrorism*
> 
> UK Charity Linked to Palestinian Terrorism
> 
> Yet another instance of aid misused to promote terrorism and anti-Semitism has been exposed.
> 
> By: United with Israel Staff
> 
> The United Kingdom charity “War on Want” is linked to terrorist organizations, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP), say The Lawfare Project and UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI), who have filed a complaint to the Charity Commission for England and Wales.
> 
> 
> 
> This is why Israel lies about War on Want.
Click to expand...


What lies?

Your bruised Islamo-feelings are yours to resolve.


----------



## Hollie

A classic case of the absurdity that defines the Arab-Moslem psyche.

Try and follow along, infidels. Vast quantities of the welfare money showered on Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians” is used to promote and finance Islamic terrorism. 

However, we’re now told that a result of the _*Great Satan*_™️ cutting off UNRWA welfare fraud money will be the promotion of Islamic terrorism. This is another case of Islamic terrorists announcing that they can’t be held responsible for their acts of Islamic terrorism if their demands aren’t met.   

Got that, infidels? If we cut off the funding of Islamic terrorism, the result will be promotion of Islamic terrorism. 

*PALESTINIANS: U.S. DECISION TO CUT UNRWA FUNDS PROMOTES TERRORISM*

Palestinians: U.S. decision to cut UNRWA funds promotes terrorism

“This is an assault on the rights of the Palestinian people and part of a series of anti-Palestinian US decisions and policies.”

The Palestinians on Saturday strongly condemned the US administration’s decision to cut the entire US aid budget to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) and warned that the move would promote terrorism and extremism.

They said that they were now considering seeking the help of the UN General Assembly and Security Council to counter the decision, which Palestinian officials condemned as a US declaration of war on the issue of Palestinian refugees in particular and the Palestinian cause in general.

On Friday, the State Department said that the US has decided to end all funding for UNRWA and described the agency as “irredeemably flawed.” The US administration has “carefully reviewed” the issue and “will not make additional contributions to UNRWA,” State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauret said.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists*
Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists

August 22, 2018  By Stand for Israel Palestinian Authority  Terrorism

It is no secret that the leaders of both Palestinian factions — the Palestinian Authority/Fatah and Hamas — long for the destruction of Israel. But it is nevertheless disheartening to see reports like this from our friends at _JNS _and _MEMRI, _which details continued Palestinian support for those who have carried out terror attacks against Israel:

In recent months, PA President Mahmoud ‘Abbas frequently participated in events at which he expressed support for prisoners and martyrs. On July 23, 2018, at a Ramallah ceremony honoring Palestinian prisoners and martyrs, during which he awarded medals to the families of the martyred prisoners and to released prisoners, he referred to the martyrs and prisoners as “pioneers” and “stars in the sky of the Palestinian people’s struggle” who “have a top priority in everything,” and stated that the payments to them and to their families would continue


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Hollie, et al,

I think it is fair to say that those people who maintain a current working knowledge of the political stance and the history → have found PA (Ramallah Government) President Mahmoud ‘Abbas to be playing both sides of the (advocates for Terrorism and advocates for the anti-Israeli Movements) of the political equation. 



Hollie said:


> *Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists*
> Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists
> 
> August 22, 2018  By Stand for Israel Palestinian Authority  Terrorism
> 
> It is no secret that the leaders of both Palestinian factions — the Palestinian Authority/Fatah and Hamas — long for the destruction of Israel. But it is nevertheless disheartening to see reports like this from our friends at _JNS _and _MEMRI, _which details continued Palestinian support for those who have carried out terror attacks against Israel:
> 
> In recent months, PA President Mahmoud ‘Abbas frequently participated in events at which he expressed support for prisoners and martyrs. On July 23, 2018, at a Ramallah ceremony honoring Palestinian prisoners and martyrs, during which he awarded medals to the families of the martyred prisoners and to released prisoners, he referred to the martyrs and prisoners as “pioneers” and “stars in the sky of the Palestinian people’s struggle” who “have a top priority in everything,” and stated that the payments to them and to their families would continue


*(HARD FACT)*

Articles #1 and #2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons _(CPPCIPP) (entered into force on 20 February 1977)_ protects a sitting Head of State from being abstructed with while in office.  A Head of State _(in this case, President Abbas)_ is considered an "internationally protected person." 

*(COMMENT)*

The Head of State _(Mahmoud ‘Abbas)_ is generally immune from arrest under the international umbrella.  Domestic Law is a different matter [Article 3(c-3) CPPIPP].

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think it is fair to say that those people who maintain a current working knowledge of the political stance and the history → have found PA (Ramallah Government) President Mahmoud ‘Abbas to be playing both sides of the (advocates for Terrorism and advocates for the anti-Israeli Movements) of the political equation.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists*
> Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists
> 
> August 22, 2018  By Stand for Israel Palestinian Authority  Terrorism
> 
> It is no secret that the leaders of both Palestinian factions — the Palestinian Authority/Fatah and Hamas — long for the destruction of Israel. But it is nevertheless disheartening to see reports like this from our friends at _JNS _and _MEMRI, _which details continued Palestinian support for those who have carried out terror attacks against Israel:
> 
> In recent months, PA President Mahmoud ‘Abbas frequently participated in events at which he expressed support for prisoners and martyrs. On July 23, 2018, at a Ramallah ceremony honoring Palestinian prisoners and martyrs, during which he awarded medals to the families of the martyred prisoners and to released prisoners, he referred to the martyrs and prisoners as “pioneers” and “stars in the sky of the Palestinian people’s struggle” who “have a top priority in everything,” and stated that the payments to them and to their families would continue
> 
> 
> 
> *(HARD FACT)*
> 
> Articles #1 and #2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons _(CPPCIPP) (entered into force on 20 February 1977)_ protects a sitting Head of State from being abstructed with while in office.  A Head of State _(in this case, President Abbas)_ is considered an "internationally protected person."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Head of State _(Mahmoud ‘Abbas)_ is generally immune from arrest under the international umbrella.  Domestic Law is a different matter [Article 3(c-3) CPPIPP].
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Interesting references, Rocco. I don’t expect the international community to bring consequences to Abbas for “playing both sides of the anti-Israeli Movements” as you described it. And I don’t expect the West Bank will see an uprising and purge of the Ramallah dictatorship. I see Abbas eventually making an exit with his personal fortune intact and the West Bank becoming something of a free-for-all as various factions fight for control. As we see with regularity, Abbas's comments are rife with overwrought statements about the "Zionist occupier" and how Palestinians should be allowed at last to "lead normal lives." (Yes, yes, they demand East Jerusalem back too, but that's old news). The “Palestinians” really want to drive the Jews into the sea, and they imply as much in any number of pronouncements spoken and written, so the usual blustering is just, well, the usual blustering. Under the internal autonomy that the PA has exercised, it has managed to produce little more than violence and specifically, violence directed at Israel, Israelis, and Jews generally.

I find it laughable that Abbas occasionally raises the issue of “statehood” and sovereignty before the UN for something he calls “Palestine”, but he seems ignorant regarding what those terms mean. Historically, sovereignty is a condition that's conceded by one's neighbors: principally by not invading and dismembering one's country; secondarily by conducting diplomatic relations. It's never been a status awarded by some supra-national certification agency.

It's again just laughable that Abbas appeals to UN for “statehood” while simultaneously paying the salaries of Islamic terrorists and announcing his intentions for the destruction of Israel. It’s also comically absurd that the West continues to shower the Abbas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., with boatloads of money with no real consequences for such behavior.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The right to destroy any one's history ]

From Al-Monitor:

 Palestinians started using coins for transactions in the 5th century BCE, with the Persian conquest of Palestinian lands. The Persian coins replaced the barter system, said Mohammed al-Zard, head of the Palestinian Association of Coins and Stamps Collectors.

He told Al-Monitor that the Persian coins were not used in the entirety of the Palestinian territories, as the coastal areas were controlled by the Canaanites, who introduced their own coins in their dealings with Persians.

“In the third century BC, after the conquest of Alexander the Great, Palestinians traded using Greek coins, which were minted in the ancient Kingdom of Gaza and were also accepted across the Greek territories,” he added.There were Greek coins minted in Gaza, actually from the 4th century BCE.

But there was no ancient Kingdom of Gaza! (Except in Africa in the 19th century.)

Palestinians make up an ancient Gaza kingdom ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had that wasn’t.

Contempt for non-Moslems (and an organized campaign of cradle to grave reinforcement of that contempt), is at the core of the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal’istanians, and it leads, over and over, to acts of violence which must be defended against. 
*


Palestinian shot dead after attempting to sabotage Gaza border fence.*

Palestinian shot dead after attempting to sabotage Gaza border fence

Palestinian shot dead after attempting to sabotage Gaza border fence
Three more Palestinians detained by IDF following their efforts to breach Gaza border fence; caught with 2 knives, and taken for questioning.
Yoav Zitun|Published:  09.09.18 , 19:42





Gaza border riots (Photo: AFP)

Earlier, the Palestinian tried to sabotage the security fence several times. 

In addition, the IDF detained three Palestinians attempting to breach the border fence in northern Gaza. They were caught carrying two knives


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think it is fair to say that those people who maintain a current working knowledge of the political stance and the history → have found PA (Ramallah Government) President Mahmoud ‘Abbas to be playing both sides of the (advocates for Terrorism and advocates for the anti-Israeli Movements) of the political equation.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists*
> Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists
> 
> August 22, 2018  By Stand for Israel Palestinian Authority  Terrorism
> 
> It is no secret that the leaders of both Palestinian factions — the Palestinian Authority/Fatah and Hamas — long for the destruction of Israel. But it is nevertheless disheartening to see reports like this from our friends at _JNS _and _MEMRI, _which details continued Palestinian support for those who have carried out terror attacks against Israel:
> 
> In recent months, PA President Mahmoud ‘Abbas frequently participated in events at which he expressed support for prisoners and martyrs. On July 23, 2018, at a Ramallah ceremony honoring Palestinian prisoners and martyrs, during which he awarded medals to the families of the martyred prisoners and to released prisoners, he referred to the martyrs and prisoners as “pioneers” and “stars in the sky of the Palestinian people’s struggle” who “have a top priority in everything,” and stated that the payments to them and to their families would continue
> 
> 
> 
> *(HARD FACT)*
> 
> Articles #1 and #2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons _(CPPCIPP) (entered into force on 20 February 1977)_ protects a sitting Head of State from being abstructed with while in office.  A Head of State _(in this case, President Abbas)_ is considered an "internationally protected person."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Head of State _(Mahmoud ‘Abbas)_ is generally immune from arrest under the international umbrella.  Domestic Law is a different matter [Article 3(c-3) CPPIPP].
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Head of State _(Mahmoud ‘Abbas)_ is generally immune from arrest under the international umbrella.


Doesn't this also apply to cabinet ministers and members of parliament?


----------



## Hollie

Yep. Get'em while they're young. 

Arabs-Moslems have taken many elements of the Hitler Youth in their formulation of indoctrinating children into the ways of gee-had. 


'Palestinian' Child Terrorists Become New Face of Attacks Against Israel - Geller Report

*Palestinian’ Child Terrorists Become New Face of Attacks Against Israel*
By Geller Report Staff - on September 7, 2018
"PALESTINIAN": JIHAD AGAINST JEWS



The “Palestinian” people have turned to their youngest and most vulnerable — their children — as their newest tool of war, training their next generations how to shoot, kill, maim and terrorize the Israeli population.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think it is fair to say that those people who maintain a current working knowledge of the political stance and the history → have found PA (Ramallah Government) President Mahmoud ‘Abbas to be playing both sides of the (advocates for Terrorism and advocates for the anti-Israeli Movements) of the political equation.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists*
> Palestinians Praise and Provide for Terrorists
> 
> August 22, 2018  By Stand for Israel Palestinian Authority  Terrorism
> 
> It is no secret that the leaders of both Palestinian factions — the Palestinian Authority/Fatah and Hamas — long for the destruction of Israel. But it is nevertheless disheartening to see reports like this from our friends at _JNS _and _MEMRI, _which details continued Palestinian support for those who have carried out terror attacks against Israel:
> 
> In recent months, PA President Mahmoud ‘Abbas frequently participated in events at which he expressed support for prisoners and martyrs. On July 23, 2018, at a Ramallah ceremony honoring Palestinian prisoners and martyrs, during which he awarded medals to the families of the martyred prisoners and to released prisoners, he referred to the martyrs and prisoners as “pioneers” and “stars in the sky of the Palestinian people’s struggle” who “have a top priority in everything,” and stated that the payments to them and to their families would continue
> 
> 
> 
> *(HARD FACT)*
> 
> Articles #1 and #2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons _(CPPCIPP) (entered into force on 20 February 1977)_ protects a sitting Head of State from being abstructed with while in office.  A Head of State _(in this case, President Abbas)_ is considered an "internationally protected person."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Head of State _(Mahmoud ‘Abbas)_ is generally immune from arrest under the international umbrella.  Domestic Law is a different matter [Article 3(c-3) CPPIPP].
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Head of State _(Mahmoud ‘Abbas)_ is generally immune from arrest under the international umbrella.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't this also apply to cabinet ministers and members of parliament?
Click to expand...


Do you mean members of the "Pal'istanian Parliament", that dumping ground for welfare fraud money that last met in 2009?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians call on Abbas to dump Oslo Accords


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The following are the answers to the fundamental questions above in the words of Palestinian leaders, since the beginning of Oslo until today:*

*1: Were the Oslo Accords signed by the PLO as a long-term peace treaty with Israel?*
*PA: The Oslo Accords were not intended to be a long-term agreement but were modeled after a peace treaty signed by Islam's Prophet Muhammad with his enemies. The Treaty of Hudaybiyyah called for peace for at least 10 years, but after two years Muhammad broke the truce and attacked and conquered his enemies. This was stated by Yasser Arafat himself a number of times, and many other Palestinian leaders.*










*Yasser Arafat:* 
"This [Oslo] agreement, I am not considering it more than the agreement which had been signed between our Prophet Muhammad and Quraish..." 
[Audio recording of Arafat speech in Johannesburg, May 10, 1994]








*Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Abbas' advisor on religious and Islamic affairs, and Chairman of the Supreme Council for Shari'ah Justice:*
"The Palestinian leadership's sense of responsibility towards its nation made it take political steps [the Oslo Accords] about 20 years ago [1993]...*exactly like the Prophet [Muhammad] did in the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah*...  The Prophet said: 'I'm the Messenger of Allah and I will not disobey Him.' This is not disobedience, it is politics... *In less than two years, the Prophet returned and based on this treaty, he conquered Mecca. This is the example, this is the model*."   
[Official PA TV, July 19, 2013]









(full article online)

The Olso Accords according to the PA - 25 years in review - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Poll: One-Third of Palestinians, Half of Gazans, Want to Emigrate; Three-Quarters Say Life Was Better Before Oslo Accords


----------



## Sixties Fan

So the National Women’s Studies Association gave out a book prize this month to Rutgers University professor Jasbir K. Puar, for her book entitled “The Right to Maim,” reported The College Fix. Who has the right to maim? Well, Israelis have the right to maim Palestinians, at least, according to Professor Puar.

“Drawing on a stunning array of theoretical and methodological frameworks, Puar uses the concept of ‘debility’— bodily injury and social exclusion brought on by economic and political factors—to disrupt the category of disability,” the book’s description says on Amazon.

So by this point, if you have experience with the hivemind that is social justice, you might be starting to see what’s going to happen. Remember those victimhood categories? Race, gender, sexuality? Well, disability is also one of them and we’ve now apparently reached the stage where, to create empathy for Palestinians, we’re actually redefining the concept of disabled to include not just actual disability, but also whatever we choose, as your progressive overlords, to categorize as economic or social oppression.
---
 Anyway, I wonder if this award-winning book of Puar’s includes anything about, oh let’s say, the fact that at least 50 out of the 62 Palestinians killed by Israel during the moving of the US embassy to Jerusalem were, indeed, Hamas or Islamic jihad terrorists, according to CNN. And speaking of Palestinian terrorism, what about the Avivim school bus massacre or the Dolphinarium discotheque suicide bombing? Do any of those deaths or injuries of Israeli children fit under your definition of “disability,” Professor Puar?

(full article online)

Prof Tries To Redefine ‘Disabled’ For Palestinians


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> So the National Women’s Studies Association gave out a book prize this month to Rutgers University professor Jasbir K. Puar, for her book entitled “The Right to Maim,” reported The College Fix. Who has the right to maim? Well, Israelis have the right to maim Palestinians, at least, according to Professor Puar.
> 
> “Drawing on a stunning array of theoretical and methodological frameworks, Puar uses the concept of ‘debility’— bodily injury and social exclusion brought on by economic and political factors—to disrupt the category of disability,” the book’s description says on Amazon.
> 
> So by this point, if you have experience with the hivemind that is social justice, you might be starting to see what’s going to happen. Remember those victimhood categories? Race, gender, sexuality? Well, disability is also one of them and we’ve now apparently reached the stage where, to create empathy for Palestinians, we’re actually redefining the concept of disabled to include not just actual disability, but also whatever we choose, as your progressive overlords, to categorize as economic or social oppression.
> ---
> Anyway, I wonder if this award-winning book of Puar’s includes anything about, oh let’s say, the fact that at least 50 out of the 62 Palestinians killed by Israel during the moving of the US embassy to Jerusalem were, indeed, Hamas or Islamic jihad terrorists, according to CNN. And speaking of Palestinian terrorism, what about the Avivim school bus massacre or the Dolphinarium discotheque suicide bombing? Do any of those deaths or injuries of Israeli children fit under your definition of “disability,” Professor Puar?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Prof Tries To Redefine ‘Disabled’ For Palestinians




FFS.  Ripping the hearts out of Jews, anyone?


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians call on Abbas to dump Oslo Accords



The Oslo Accords ultimately polarized the Palestinians into two camps -- those willing to accept a sovereign Palestine alongside a sovereign Israel and those insisting on the destruction of Israel.  If the former had become the dominant group we would have peace now.  Sadly, they did not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians call on Abbas to dump Oslo Accords
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords ultimately polarized the Palestinians into two camps -- those willing to accept a sovereign Palestine alongside a sovereign Israel and those insisting on the destruction of Israel.  If the former had become the dominant group we would have peace now.  Sadly, they did not.
Click to expand...

Oslo was not for peace. Oslo was to cement the occupation. It did what Israel wanted.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians call on Abbas to dump Oslo Accords
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords ultimately polarized the Palestinians into two camps -- those willing to accept a sovereign Palestine alongside a sovereign Israel and those insisting on the destruction of Israel.  If the former had become the dominant group we would have peace now.  Sadly, they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was not for peace. Oslo was to cement the occupation. It did what Israel wanted.
Click to expand...


Exactly. Thank you for proving my point. Oslo was to cement the concept of two sovereign States side by side and eventually bring about that very thing. Which would have led to peace. 

The side that seeks the destruction of Israel has won out though. As evidenced in your post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians call on Abbas to dump Oslo Accords
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords ultimately polarized the Palestinians into two camps -- those willing to accept a sovereign Palestine alongside a sovereign Israel and those insisting on the destruction of Israel.  If the former had become the dominant group we would have peace now.  Sadly, they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was not for peace. Oslo was to cement the occupation. It did what Israel wanted.
Click to expand...


Actually, Oslo was a reaffirmation that Arabs-Moslems could not allow a Jewish State in lands they consider an Islamist waqf.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The PA promotes teenage- terrorism and lauds teenage “Martyrs”: 

“The families of the Martyrs and their relatives find themselves proud of the Martyrdom that their children achieved with the Creator... Sixteen [12-grade students] succeeded... for death as a Martyr is the path to excellence and greatness, and the path of those who know how to reach the great victory."*
[WAFA (official PA news agency), July 11, 2016;
official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 12, 2016

(full article online)

Palestinian Teenage Murderers - The PA-Poisoned Generation - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is the consequence of Muslims being daily instigated to kill Jews because of alleged stolen Muslim (not Palestinian)  land, aka, Israel .   ]

My Friend was Just Murdered by a Muslim Terrorist. He Died the Hero that He was Alive - Ari Fuld


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Unbearable Whiteness of Linda Sarsour  (Michael Lumish) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult was seemingly as giddy as a schoolgirl asked out on her first date, although in typical Death Cult fashion, the killing of an American Jew was enough to send the Islamic terrorist mouthpieces on a media blitz to announce their “pleasure”.



Palestinian factions applaud terror attack that killed Ari Fuld

Palestinian factions applauded the terror attack Sunday that killed Israel-American Ari Fuld, _The Jerusalem Post_'s sister publication _Maariv _reported.

"We welcome the stabbing attack in Bethlehem," said Hamas spokesperson Abd Al-Latif Kanaoueu. "It came at the cost of sacrificing our people in the March of Return, emphasizing the importance of Jerusalem's Intifada and the right of our people to all forms of resistance against the occupation."

Islamic Jihad praised the "heroic stabbing against the settlers' terror in Bethlehem," adding that "this is a natural response to Jewish terror, aggression, and its crimes against Arabs, the land, and our holy places."


----------



## Hollie

Not that this will surprise anyone. 

There is a pathology, a truly debilitating sickness which is the underlying motivation for the mindset of the pious Islamist and the fascination with inflicting pain and suffering on themselves. Much of that mindset is encapsulated within the various islamic texts that provide a simple proscription, one we witness most every day with reports of the most recent mass murder: death in furtherance of the religion is "martyrdom". Mass murder in furtherance of addressing a perceived grievance when done in the name of the religion is a holy act.  

*
Palestinian Teenage Murderers - *
_*The PA-Poisoned Generation*_

*Palestinian Teenage Murderers - The PA-Poisoned Generation - PMW Bulletins

The PA promotes teenage- terrorism and lauds teenage “Martyrs”: 

“The families of the Martyrs and their relatives find themselves proud of the Martyrdom that their children achieved with the Creator... Sixteen [12-grade students] succeeded... for death as a Martyr is the path to excellence and greatness, and the path of those who know how to reach the great victory."*
[WAFA (official PA news agency), July 11, 2016;
official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 12, 2016]
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## Sixties Fan

Cleric on PA TV: Israelis like "rats burrow under the ground" of Al Aqsa - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Honor killing in Gaza - but Western "feminist" critics of Israel remain silent ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Note that the land will be shared between Arabs and Jews - but it is only Arab land.

That is the "peace" that the world is pushing when it publishes puff pieces on the Tamimis, like this piece by France24 yesterday and another by Financial Times. 

By calling any Palestinian who does not directly call for suicide bombings "peaceful," the liberal world press is guilty of racism against Palestinians by giving them such a low bar to clear to be praised. It's like praising a pit bull for not tearing out anyone's throat.

Zionists aren't the ones who are dehumanizing Palestinians; it is the world that expects them to be violent and is pleasantly surprised when some of them pretend not to support bombing pizza shops - even though they still support the people who do.

(full article and video online)

The Tamimis confirm that they want Israel destroyed, world still calls them "peace activists" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

On August 2, 2018, a number of UN and European government officials attended an event that included a virulently antisemitic artwork display in the Area C encampment of Khan al-Ahmar.https://www.facebook.com/wallresistance/posts/2007850815946047, Dr Sabri Saidam, Minister of Education and Higher Education for Palestine 













Attendees included UNICEF-oPt’s Special Representative Genevieve Boutin; UNESCO’s Ramallah Office Senior Program Officer Sonia Ezam; Head of Mission at South Africa’s Representative Office in the State of Palestine Ashraf Suliman; the Representative of Norway to Palestine Hilde Haraldstad; and representatives from the German government’s development agency, the UK, and Italy’s Vento di Terra.

(full article online)

UN and Government Officials Attend Antisemitic “Artwork” Display in Khan al-Ahmar


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Note that the land will be shared between Arabs and Jews - but it is only Arab land.
> 
> That is the "peace" that the world is pushing when it publishes puff pieces on the Tamimis, like this piece by France24 yesterday and another by Financial Times.
> 
> By calling any Palestinian who does not directly call for suicide bombings "peaceful," the liberal world press is guilty of racism against Palestinians by giving them such a low bar to clear to be praised. It's like praising a pit bull for not tearing out anyone's throat.
> 
> Zionists aren't the ones who are dehumanizing Palestinians; it is the world that expects them to be violent and is pleasantly surprised when some of them pretend not to support bombing pizza shops - even though they still support the people who do.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> The Tamimis confirm that they want Israel destroyed, world still calls them "peace activists" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Hollie, et al,

YEs, she is a little brat terrorist.



Hollie said:


> Ahed Tamimi is a Palestinian Terrorist that promotes and encourages violence.[Media clipped


*(COMMENT)*

The parents should be charged with child abuse for the exploitation of the 16 year old.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> YEs, she is a little brat terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi is a Palestinian Terrorist that promotes and encourages violence.[Media clipped
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The parents should be charged with child abuse for the exploitation of the 16 year old.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The PA will never do so.  She is one of their heroes.  And it is very possibly that they also receive some kind of bonus for the time spent in prison.  

The whole thing needs to stop sooner than later.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> YEs, she is a little brat terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi is a Palestinian Terrorist that promotes and encourages violence.[Media clipped
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The parents should be charged with child abuse for the exploitation of the 16 year old.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I agree, Rocco. However, Ahed is emblematic of the abuse heaped upon children in places like Gaza. Children are raised from the earliest age to believe that hate for non-Moslems and especially Jews is a normative part of their lives. They’re taught that dying a “martyr” while inflicting misery and death on others is the highest honor and will get them carnal rewards in heaven. 

In the Darwinian world, some basic precepts have proved advantageous over time: the young must be protected, cooperation has advantages over tribal war, etc. 

Arab-Moslem “Palestinians” have turned that concept on its head and explicitly use their youngest and most naive as disposable commodities in their 1,400 year old war against the Jewish people.


----------



## Hollie

More standard fare for the Arab-Moslem Death Cult*.



PA says teenage killer who murdered Israeli was victim*
*
PA says teenage killer who murdered Israeli was victim - PMW Bulletins*

Yesterday, a Palestinian teenager, Khalil Jabarin, stabbed and murdered Israeli Ari Fuld in the parking lot of a supermarket. Before succumbing to his wounds, Fuld, together with another civilian, shot and wounded Jabarin, which led to his capture.

Today, the PA is portraying terrorist murderer Jabarin as a victim of an unprovoked Israeli shooting. The headline in the official PA daily indicated that he had not even attacked anyone:

Headline: "The shooting and wounding of the boy Khalil Jabarin, and his arrest *claiming that he killed a settler* next to 'Etzion'" _(emphasis added)

_


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> More standard fare for the Arab-Moslem Death Cult*.
> 
> 
> 
> PA says teenage killer who murdered Israeli was victim
> 
> PA says teenage killer who murdered Israeli was victim - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> Yesterday, a Palestinian teenager, Khalil Jabarin, stabbed and murdered Israeli Ari Fuld in the parking lot of a supermarket. Before succumbing to his wounds, Fuld, together with another civilian, shot and wounded Jabarin, which led to his capture.
> 
> Today, the PA is portraying terrorist murderer Jabarin as a victim of an unprovoked Israeli shooting. The headline in the official PA daily indicated that he had not even attacked anyone:
> 
> Headline: "The shooting and wounding of the boy Khalil Jabarin, and his arrest *claiming that he killed a settler* next to 'Etzion'" _(emphasis added)
> _



The Pro Palestinian Apologist sees NOTHING wrong with that which is why I will NEVER condemn any killing of a Palestinian by an Israeli.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Another, whose family will be receiving a lifetime salary for being killed "while attempting to kill a Jew"]

Terrorist stabber neutralized in Jerusalem


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [Another, whose family will be receiving a lifetime salary for being killed "while attempting to kill a Jew"]
> 
> Terrorist stabber neutralized in Jerusalem



Should have shot him dead and strung him up


----------



## Sixties Fan

His murderer was Khalil Jabarin, a 17 year-old Arab boy. He was but the latest in a string of teenage Arab terrorists who are attacking Israeli Jews. The reason isn’t hard to find: as *Palestinian Media Watch* observes, they are being incited to hatred and murder of Jews by the Palestinian Authority education system and mass media which tell them that “all Israelis deserve to be killed and that dying while committing a terror attack is ‘the path to excellence and greatness… the great victory’.” 

The Arab writer *Bassam Tawil* links Jabarin’s attack directly to incitement by PA president Mahmoud Abbas who he says has Ari Fuld’s blood on his hands.

“In a speech before the PLO Executive Committee in Ramallah on September 15, Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas repeated the old libel that Israel was planning to establish special Jewish prayer zones inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque. 

“…Abbas’s allegation was quickly picked up by several media outlets in the Arab world, the West Bank and Gaza Strip…According to Palestinian terrorist groups, Jabarin decided to murder a Jew in response to Israeli “crimes” against the al Aqsa Mosque in particular and other Islamic holy sites. In other words, the terrorist was influenced by Abbas’s incitement, and this is why he decided to set out on his deadly mission.” 

The Palestinian Authority is funded by Britain and other western governments. These governments are therefore indirectly responsible for the incitement to hatred and murder of Jews which is poisoning Arab children’s minds. If Abbas has the blood of murdered Israelis on his hands, Britain and the west have helped dip them in it.

(full article online)

A great and unspeakable evil


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority (PA) rushed to transfer an advance of roughly $3,300 to the family of terrorist Khalil Jabarin, who killed American-Israeli citizen Ari Fuld in a stabbing attack on Sunday, Eliran Tal reportedfor Israel’s Channel One News.

Fuld was born in New York before moving to Israel in 1994. He lived in Efrat with his wife and was the father of four children. The PA transfer reportedly occurred hours after the attack, during Fuld’s funeral service.

A diplomatic source speaking to Channel One said that “this is an outrageous and angry step by Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas], who proves to us all again that his face is not peace or arrangement with Israel, but rather the continuation of the armed struggle against us,” according to a translation of the original Hebrew-language article.

PA media was quick to paint the terrorist as a young victim. One official PA daily headline read: “The shooting and wounding of the boy Khalil Jabarin, and his arrest claiming that he killed a settler next to ‘Etzion [sic],” according to Palestinian Media Watch.

Palestinians often refer to all Israeli civilians as settlers in order to justify their murder.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Rushes Payment to Terrorist’s Family Hours After Attack Kills Father of Four


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gazans know]

Gaza residents criticize Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Humanitarian Concessions Will Not Reduce Hamas Violence. Here is the Evidence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an and other Palestinian media outlets published what appeared to be a press release from the Palestinian Ministry of Education:

 The Ministry of Education and Higher Education (MoEHE) condemned the attack on the Ramallah Secondary School for Boys by a group of young people who are outlawed, stressing its categorical rejection of any attack on any educational institution and the entire educational process, especially the Palestinian teacher.
The Ministry considered in a press statement today that any attack on education is an attack on Palestine, and will constitute a major issue for the ministry. The ministry will enforce the maximum punishment, follow up on the aggressors and take protective measures to ensure that this situation is not repeated.
The ministry said in a statement that the Minister of Education and Higher Education d. Sabri Sidem and Undersecretary of the Ministry d. Ozer Saleh and Governor of Ramallah and Al-Bireh d. Laila Ghannam, the police and the Directorate of Education visited the school, where they met the teaching staff and followed up the details of the event, and then went to the hospital to check on the safety of teachers and students who were injured in the attack.So some group of people attacked a school and injured teachers and students.
----------------------

But there are practically no news stories of the actual attack! 

Ma'an doesn't bother to give any background. We have no idea that the motivation was for the attack, how many were injured, how many were involved, how many were arrested, what day this happened - nothing.

What kind of reporting is this? The type that the Palestinian Authority allows. because making its own people look irrational and violent is something that is simply not halal.

(full article online)

If Mahmoud Abbas says it isn't news, it isn't news ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On October 7, 2017, on the occasion of the 44th anniversary of the 1973 war between Israel and the Arabs, the London-based Saudi daily _Al-Sharq Al-Awsat_published an article by its former editor, 'Abd Al-Rahman Al-Rashed, in which he praised then Egyptian President Anwar Sadat for leading the Arabs to "their only victory over Israel" and then leveraging that victory to sign a peace treaty with Israel. In the article, titled "There Are Those Who Have Not Learned from the October War," Rashed also criticized some Arab and Iranian leaders for not drawing the right conclusions from the war and for thwarting the opportunity to expand the Egypt-Israel peace agreement into a comprehensive peace with the Palestinians as well. He claimed that, to this day, these rulers distort history in order to cover up their failures._
_
(full article online)

Senior Saudi Journalist On Anniversary Of 1973 War Between Israel And The Arabs: Some Arabs Still Haven't Learned The Lessons Of The War_


----------



## Sixties Fan

The festive signing of the Oslo Peace Accords in September 1993 found Husam Badran, a founding member of Hamas and later a director of the organization’s military wing, in Israel’s high security Nafha Prison, serving time for terror activities. His fellow security prisoners—jubilantly following the ceremony on TV—started packing their bags, expecting to be released imminently in a mass amnesty. But Badran kept his cool.

“After all they’d suffered, they felt this was real. But I told them: ‘Don’t be in such a rush. We will be freed after serving our full sentences, then we will be arrested again and again as negotiations proceed.’ And that is indeed what happened.”

Twenty-five years later, the senior Hamas leader, who was convicted of overseeing some of the most infamous bombings by the terror group, including the 2001 bombing of the Sbarro Pizza in Jerusalem which killed 15 Israeli civilians, and the bombing of the Dolphinarium Discotheque in Tel Aviv, which killed 21, feels that he has been vindicated. With President Donald Trump delivering blow after political blow to Badran’s avowed adversary Mahmoud Abbas—first cutting funds to the Palestinian Authority, then moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, and now shuttering the PLO offices in Washington, D.C.—Badran is confident that he can convince his people that the now-defunct peace process was a sham all along.

“We always knew that Oslo was an illusion. Today we’ve been proven right: Oslo never bred a Palestinian State nor retrieved the rights of the Palestinian people.” These days, he added, “not one person will defend Oslo on official Palestinian TV.”

(full article online)

Between War and Peace: An Interview With Senior Hamas Leader Husam Badran


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The festive signing of the Oslo Peace Accords in September 1993 found Husam Badran, a founding member of Hamas and later a director of the organization’s military wing, in Israel’s high security Nafha Prison, serving time for terror activities. His fellow security prisoners—jubilantly following the ceremony on TV—started packing their bags, expecting to be released imminently in a mass amnesty. But Badran kept his cool.
> 
> “After all they’d suffered, they felt this was real. But I told them: ‘Don’t be in such a rush. We will be freed after serving our full sentences, then we will be arrested again and again as negotiations proceed.’ And that is indeed what happened.”
> 
> Twenty-five years later, the senior Hamas leader, who was convicted of overseeing some of the most infamous bombings by the terror group, including the 2001 bombing of the Sbarro Pizza in Jerusalem which killed 15 Israeli civilians, and the bombing of the Dolphinarium Discotheque in Tel Aviv, which killed 21, feels that he has been vindicated. With President Donald Trump delivering blow after political blow to Badran’s avowed adversary Mahmoud Abbas—first cutting funds to the Palestinian Authority, then moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, and now shuttering the PLO offices in Washington, D.C.—Badran is confident that he can convince his people that the now-defunct peace process was a sham all along.
> 
> “We always knew that Oslo was an illusion. Today we’ve been proven right: Oslo never bred a Palestinian State nor retrieved the rights of the Palestinian people.” These days, he added, “not one person will defend Oslo on official Palestinian TV.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Between War and Peace: An Interview With Senior Hamas Leader Husam Badran





Sixties Fan said:


> We always knew that Oslo was an illusion.


Some people knew that Oslo was a sham from the start. It took a while for everyone else to catch up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the course of interrogations by the Shin Bet and the police, Ahmed Abu Tzibah, a Hamas terrorist from Kafr Aqab, who had been released a few months earlier, was found to have began the group after being sentenced to eight months in prison for his activities in the terrorist organization Shabab al-Aqsa.

Tzibah is the son of Mesbah Abu Tzibh, who carried out a deadly shooting attack in October 2016 in Jerusalem, during which Livneh Malihi and the Yossi Kirma were murdered.

The investigation revealed that Tzibah was the one who led the violent event, transferred the funding for the fireworks, and instructed to recruit additional activists to riot on the Temple Mount, as well as fire the flares at the Israeli forces.

Rashid Rashak, a Hamas terrorist with an Israeli identity card, was arrested along with his wife, who served between 14 and 16 years in prison for his involvement in a stabbing attack. Rashid recruited activists and instructed them how to take part in the event. In the weeks following the clashes, Rashid also instigated a similar violent incident on the Temple Mount, but unsuccessfully, due to the security forces' preventive activity.

(full article online)

Murderer's son leads Temple Mount riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

A peace plan isn’t peace. Peace negotiations aren’t peace. Nobel Peace Prizes aren’t peace, either, though they were handed out after Oslo.

Peace is peace.

And war is war: There were 169 Palestinian suicide attacks between 1993 and 2016, targeting shopping malls, bus depots, the streets of downtown Jerusalem. In 2014 alone, there were 4,500 rocket and mortar attacks on Israelis. The Palestinians still proudly celebrate their stunning military victory over a pregnant woman, seven children, and five other civilians eating pizza at the Battle of Sbarro. There is constant violence on the Gaza border, and balloons and kites now are used to deliver incendiary devices into Israeli cities. There are practically no diplomatic relationships between the Israeli government and the Palestinian government, partly because the Palestinians have two competing governments run by two competing terrorist organizations: Fatah in the West bank and Hamas in Gaza. The United States government has announced that it will cease funding the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), and an Israeli newspaper reported that the Trump administration, through Jared Kushner and his representative Jason Greenblatt, had offered the Palestinians $5 billion to come to the negotiating table again — a claim Greenblatt denies. President Trump has suggested that he’ll rely on financial leverage to motivate the Palestinians, telling reporters: “I’d say, ‘You’ll get money, but we’re not paying you until we make a deal. If we don’t make a deal, we’re not paying.’”

Another deal. One cannot fault the administration for trying. What else is there to do?

If only Secretary of State Bob Newhart were here to offer the Palestinians some sound advice: “Stop it.”

The conflict in Israel might be settled 1 million different ways, but Palestinian powers reject 999,999 of those possibilities in favor of the one outcome that the Israelis cannot accept: the elimination of the Jewish state as such. To the extent that the Palestinian powers have the consent of the people they purport to rule, this is what is being consented to: war and more war, misery and more misery, with the Palestinians themselves suffering some of the worst of it. But the Israelis cannot make peace with people who will not make peace with them. They can only do what they have tried to do: protect themselves and look for harm-reduction opportunities.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Stop Making War If You Want Peace | National Review


----------



## Sixties Fan

[How does one dry the well and make the bleeding stop?]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Finally, a Muslim WAQF Official Kicked Off the Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ahed Tamimi's Global Propaganda Tour | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

However, foreign affairs commentator Ishaan Tharoor, giving his thoughts in the Washington Post on US President Donald Trump’s cessation of funding for UNRWA writes:

The White House, along with Israel’s right wing, argues that the rolls of recognized refugees should be limited to those alive in 1949 — a move at odds with other U.N. operations that also confer refugee status upon the descendants of the displaced.

Tharoor links to the UNHCR page for Afghan refugees whose descendants, like those of other refugees administered to by UNHCR, _do not_, unless under exceptional circumstances (unlike Palestinians who receive it by default), automatically receive refugee status.

Put simply, Tharoor has made a fundamental error.

(full article online)

Washington Post Errs on Palestinian Refugees | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

[The truth comes out.  But who listens to it?  ]

_To mark the 25th anniversary of the Oslo Accords, Palestinian journalist Abd Al-Bari Atwan, editor of the online newspaper _Rai Al-Yawm,_ revealed in an article that the late Palestinian Authority (PA) president and PLO leader Yasser Arafat had told him in confidence that he did not believe in the Oslo Accords path but that he was going along with it because it was an opportunity "to bring the PLO and the resistance back to Palestine" and to drive out the Jews "like rats abandoning a sinking ship." Atwan also noted in his article that Arafat had cooperated with, funded, and armed members of Hamas, and had coordinated with Hizbullah to dispatch ships bringing weapons to the Gaza coast. Arafat, he added, paid for this with his life, because he had "caused the outbreak of the armed Second Intifada and brought weapons from everywhere possible."

(full article online)

Senior Palestinian Journalist: Arafat Told Me He Went Along With Oslo Accords Because It Would Make 'The Jews... Leave Palestine Like Rats Abandoning A Sinking Ship'_


----------



## Sixties Fan

There was a flurry of articles earlier this year about Israel's permit system that restricts where Palestinians are allowed to go in Israel.  "Security bans are the hidden centerpiece of a permit system that Palestinians consider _the ultimate tool of control in Israel’s half-century-old military occupation_."

What practically no one mentions is that there were virtually no controls on where Palestinian Arabs could travel in Israel before 1991, when the permit system was instituted - as a result of the first intifada and the deaths of hundreds.

None of Israel's critics would suggest that there was no "occupation" between 1967 and 1991.

The fact is that the permit system is a response to Palestinian terror, not a consequence of "occupation." Israel gave Palestinian Arabs the freedom of movement that they claim as a right - and that freedom resulted in brutality and murders.

Similarly, the security barrier and other restrictions were enacted in response to even more Palestinian terror in the 2000s.

Why do these scholarly papers as well as popular articles ignore the context of the current restrictions, and instead blame "occupation?" Israel has shown that if there wasn't violence, the borders could be virtually open.

I've spoken to long-time Jewish residents of the West Bank who told me they could buy challahs for Shabbat in Ramallah, where they were brought in from Angel Bakery in Israel, before the first intifada. Jews and Arabs could have had freedom of movement in both directions if it wasn't for Palestinian terror.

(full article online)

It isn't the "occupation," stupid - it's the terror ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There was a flurry of articles earlier this year about Israel's permit system that restricts where Palestinians are allowed to go in Israel.  "Security bans are the hidden centerpiece of a permit system that Palestinians consider _the ultimate tool of control in Israel’s half-century-old military occupation_."
> 
> What practically no one mentions is that there were virtually no controls on where Palestinian Arabs could travel in Israel before 1991, when the permit system was instituted - as a result of the first intifada and the deaths of hundreds.
> 
> None of Israel's critics would suggest that there was no "occupation" between 1967 and 1991.
> 
> The fact is that the permit system is a response to Palestinian terror, not a consequence of "occupation." Israel gave Palestinian Arabs the freedom of movement that they claim as a right - and that freedom resulted in brutality and murders.
> 
> Similarly, the security barrier and other restrictions were enacted in response to even more Palestinian terror in the 2000s.
> 
> Why do these scholarly papers as well as popular articles ignore the context of the current restrictions, and instead blame "occupation?" Israel has shown that if there wasn't violence, the borders could be virtually open.
> 
> I've spoken to long-time Jewish residents of the West Bank who told me they could buy challahs for Shabbat in Ramallah, where they were brought in from Angel Bakery in Israel, before the first intifada. Jews and Arabs could have had freedom of movement in both directions if it wasn't for Palestinian terror.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> It isn't the "occupation," stupid - it's the terror ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


The First Intifada was a response to Israel's occupation. Why was that not mentioned?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier this year, the Palestinian Authority Mufti ruled that Islam forbids selling land to "enemies," as reported by Palestinian Media Watch. Doing so would be "treason" and "a sin." 

Now the Palestinian Authority is acting according to this prohibition. In cooperation with the PA's General Prosecution, the PA's Preventive Intelligence Force "succeeded in thwarting a deal for the illegal transfer of land" and arrested those involved: 

"The [PA] Preventive Intelligence Force succeeded - through security cooperation, relying on intelligence information, surveillance on the ground, and intensive monitoring, and in legal coordination with the [PA] General Prosecution - in thwarting a deal for the illegal transfer of land (i.e., to Israelis/Jews) in the Hebron district... The Force succeeded in arresting those involved... and they were transferred to the legal system for the completion of the legal steps against them."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 31, 2018]

The Mufti emphasized the gravity of the sin of transferring land to non-Muslims a few months ago, explaining that it constitutes "heresy." He made it clear that anyone guilty of such a land transfer is seen by Allah as similar to someone "who fight Muslims because of their religion." Such a person is considered a "traitor" who has "left Islam" and should be "banished" and "excommunicated" - no one should "do business with him, marry him, or demonstrate friendliness to him," and no one should "participate in his funeral, pray for him, or bury him in Muslim cemeteries:"

(full article online )

PA arrests Palestinians for selling land to Israelis/Jews, follows Mufti's religious prohibition - PMW Bulletins


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

This has got to be one of the most stupid decrees I think I've ever heard of coming out of the territories.



Sixties Fan said:


> Earlier this year, the Palestinian Authority Mufti ruled that Islam forbids selling land to "enemies," as reported by Palestinian Media Watch. Doing so would be "treason" and "a sin."


*(COMMENT)*

Maybe the region needs to bring back the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) from a hundred years ago.  Becausethe Arab Palestinians Governments don't seem to be doing the job. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This has got to be one of the most stupid decrees I think I've ever heard of coming out of the territories.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier this year, the Palestinian Authority Mufti ruled that Islam forbids selling land to "enemies," as reported by Palestinian Media Watch. Doing so would be "treason" and "a sin."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Maybe the region needs to bring back the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) from a hundred years ago.  Becausethe Arab Palestinians Governments don't seem to be doing the job.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Their thinking goes like this:

It is Muslim conquered land.
It must remain in the hands of any Muslim.

This is how the Jews ended up with only 20% of the Mandate for their homeland.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

Yes, it does have this ring to it.



Sixties Fan said:


> Their thinking goes like this:
> 
> It is Muslim conquered land.
> It must remain in the hands of any Muslim.
> 
> This is how the Jews ended up with only 20% of the Mandate for their homeland.


*(COMMENT)*

But this type of thinking the "Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day" is actually HAMAS type thinking.




			
				Artlicle 11 said:
			
		

> It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.



I'm not sure that the Rahmallah Governments wants to admit they are beginning to lean in that direction. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> Yes, it does have this ring to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their thinking goes like this:
> 
> It is Muslim conquered land.
> It must remain in the hands of any Muslim.
> 
> This is how the Jews ended up with only 20% of the Mandate for their homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But this type of thinking the "Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day" is actually HAMAS type thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artlicle 11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that the Rahmallah Governments wants to admit they are beginning to lean in that direction.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How are you sure that they have not been all along?

Arafat could not sign the Peace Treaty for fear he would be assassinated as the Egyptian President was.

Why is that?  Because many Muslims think that way, as it is a religion of conquest and never giving the land back.
Of course they lose wars, but they may be one of the only peoples in the world, just like the Germans were, who think of retaking land they once conquered.  That it belongs to them.

They use the same idea as Mohammad did, as I have said before.

Wait, and eventually the land will return to them.

All of Gaza is now in Muslim hands.

The leaders, Imams and others keep saying that all of Jerusalem belongs to Islam only, and that all of Palestine is theirs.

Ramallah does have maps of "Palestine" with all of Israel included in the map AS Palestine.

Jordan seems to think that way as they have been going against the Jewish right to go up the Temple Mount, going against what had been agreed to with the Peace Treaty.

At what point exactly did the idea that all conquered Muslim land is forever Muslim I am not quite sure.

The Muslims for sure did not mind being conquered by other Muslims, as with the case with the Ottoman Empire.

All the land conquered by the Ottomans remained in Muslim hands.

Now, we have Muslims saying they are waiting to reconquer Spain, or Vienna, or any other land once conquered by a Muslim.

Does it come from the Quran, or from more recent (hundred years) thinking?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

These are questions for which I have no tangible evidence to evaluate.



Sixties Fan said:


> •  How are you sure that they have not been all along?
> √Arafat could not sign the Peace Treaty for fear he would be assassinated as the Egyptian President was.   Why is that?​
> •  Now, we have Muslims saying they are waiting to reconquer Spain, or Vienna, or any other land once conquered by a Muslim.
> √  Does it come from the Quran, or from more recent (hundred years) thinking?​


​*(RESPONSES)*

While we might be able to say, with some confidence, that countries like China, South Korea, and Japan are coming back into their golden age, the same cannot be said about the Muslim world.

The Muslim World has no idea the direction it is taking.  It may fade away like the Egyptian Culture.   

I'm not sure that even the most knowledgeable Islamic scholars truly understand what the Qurans says or how to apply it.  If the scholars actual knew, then the world would not be so much confusion about the meaning and intent.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 13-Sep-18: What do the Palestinian Arabs think?


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 19-Sep-18: Kol Nidrei night stabbing attack at entrance to Jerusalem's Old City


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 19-Sep-18: Kol Nidrei night stabbing attack at entrance to Jerusalem's Old City


Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 19-Sep-18: Kol Nidrei night stabbing attack at entrance to Jerusalem's Old City
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.
Click to expand...


Why, the Jihadi brides got tired of their 70 virgins?
So much wedding invitations to decline...too impolite towards the lovely brides:


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is one of those never-ending loops:  Who's was?



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.   ∴  Hense all the security countermeasures and defensive counter-terrorism initiative that are the reasonable precautions. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

For some Arabs, Ahed Tamimi is no longer an 'icon'


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of those never-ending loops:  Who's was?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.   ∴  Hense all the security countermeasures and defensive counter-terrorism initiative that are the reasonable precautions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.


Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of those never-ending loops:  Who's was?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.   ∴  Hense all the security countermeasures and defensive counter-terrorism initiative that are the reasonable precautions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
Click to expand...


Indeed, it’s comical that you are reduced to cutting and pasting your usual slogans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 19-Sep-18: Kol Nidrei night stabbing attack at entrance to Jerusalem's Old City
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.
Click to expand...


Indeed, what war?

Indeed, it was the Arabs-Moslems who committed acts of war by attacking Israel and attempting breach the Israeli border. Are you ignorant of the Tire Burning Riots?


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of those never-ending loops:  Who's was?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.   ∴  Hense all the security countermeasures and defensive counter-terrorism initiative that are the reasonable precautions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s comical that you are reduced to cutting and pasting your usual slogans.
Click to expand...


He gets on my nerves.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt presents new plan to return control of Gaza to PA


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You do this quite frequently.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.  

Two Points:

*ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.

*ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact: 

■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.

■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:

The principle of equal rights,
 Self-determination of peoples,
The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
Territorial integrity,
Political independence,
Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.

You consistently post pages of external interference.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
Click to expand...



Utter drivel.

Not  deserving of a reasoned response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
Click to expand...


What "rights" were stripped from Arabs-Moslems?

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
Click to expand...


Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
Click to expand...

Israel says that. It is currently the external interference.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel says that. It is currently the external interference.
Click to expand...


False. Indeed, it is the competing mini-caliphate’ists in Gaza and the West Bank who fail to cobble together a working, representative government which can take the steps necessarily for self-determination and sovereignty. 

Which franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl Inc., has shown an ability or willingness to form a stable, responsible government capable of managing the civil affairs of government?


----------



## Hollie

Live by the gee-had (for a brief period of time), die by the gee-had. 




IAF targets Palestinian terror cell planting bombs ‎near Gaza border ‎ 
Palestinians report two fatalities in strike • Incident follows riots in northern Gaza, where hundreds of Palestinians tried to breach the security fence • Balloon carrying a fragmentation ‎grenade launched into Israel from Gaza, neutralized safely. ‎ 

News Agencies and Israel Hayom Staff 
http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/09/...rror-cell-planting-bombs-‎near-gaza-border-‎/


An IDF strike on terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip 

 Illustration: AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






The Israeli Air Force on Monday targeted a Palestinian ‎terrorist cell planting explosives on the Israel-‎Gaza Strip border.‎


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

AGAIN*!*

You get this wrong, e  v e r y   s i n g l e   t i m e...

Natural rights are only those rights which a government or legal system cannot deny.  _(Life, Liberty, Choice of destiny, Happiness and maybe even Religion → that sort of thing; NOT political rights.)_

No person, no government, no legal system have denied these rights to the Arab Palestinians.  What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.

Natural "inalienable rights" do not come from government. If you hold of some form of Abrahamic belief, you would have been taught that the Natural "inalienable rights" are bestowed upon man by the "creator" _(or the Supreme Being)_. A peculiar feature to Natural Rights is that they are bestowed on the individual, and not a people, society or culture.



P F Tinmore said:


> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.


*(COMMENT)*

Q:  What natural right do you believe has been "stripped" away from the Arab Palestinian?  
A:  None

Again, you are mixing-up the type and kind of rights.

✪  Positive Rights:  Obligate,  or Imposes a Duty on someone to take some action - or to provide something - to effect the rights upon others.
✪  Negative Rights: Requires a stay of action - placing an injuction someone, - or - non-interference.​The "Right to Life" is a "NEGATIVE" - "Natural Right" → the injunction against murder.
The "Right to Return" is _(if it exists)_ is a man-made law.  It is NOT a "Natural Right."  The "Right to Return" _(if it exists)_ is an injunction barring passage. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas terrorist organization announced on Sunday that its indirect ceasefire talks with Israel have halted, _The Associated Press_reported.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri blamed the impasse on the Palestinian Authority, which has voiced its strong opposition to the talks.

Abu Zuhri said that in response, Hamas would be escalating its protests in new locations along Gaza's borders with Israel.

(full article online)

Hamas: Ceasefire talks with Israel are over


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
Click to expand...


I am


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> AGAIN*!*
> 
> You get this wrong, e  v e r y   s i n g l e   t i m e...
> 
> Natural rights are only those rights which a government or legal system cannot deny.  _(Life, Liberty, Choice of destiny, Happiness and maybe even Religion → that sort of thing; NOT political rights.)_
> 
> No person, no government, no legal system have denied these rights to the Arab Palestinians.  What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Natural "inalienable rights" do not come from government. If you hold of some form of Abrahamic belief, you would have been taught that the Natural "inalienable rights" are bestowed upon man by the "creator" _(or the Supreme Being)_. A peculiar feature to Natural Rights is that they are bestowed on the individual, and not a people, society or culture.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  What natural right do you believe has been "stripped" away from the Arab Palestinian?
> A:  None
> 
> Again, you are mixing-up the type and kind of rights.
> 
> ✪  Positive Rights:  Obligate,  or Imposes a Duty on someone to take some action - or to provide something - to effect the rights upon others.
> ✪  Negative Rights: Requires a stay of action - placing an injuction someone, - or - non-interference.​The "Right to Life" is a "NEGATIVE" - "Natural Right" → the injunction against murder.
> The "Right to Return" is _(if it exists)_ is a man-made law.  It is NOT a "Natural Right."  The "Right to Return" _(if it exists)_ is an injunction barring passage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.


Where do you get this shit, Rocco?

The Palestinians only attack the occupation and it is their right to do that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> AGAIN*!*
> 
> You get this wrong, e  v e r y   s i n g l e   t i m e...
> 
> Natural rights are only those rights which a government or legal system cannot deny.  _(Life, Liberty, Choice of destiny, Happiness and maybe even Religion → that sort of thing; NOT political rights.)_
> 
> No person, no government, no legal system have denied these rights to the Arab Palestinians.  What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Natural "inalienable rights" do not come from government. If you hold of some form of Abrahamic belief, you would have been taught that the Natural "inalienable rights" are bestowed upon man by the "creator" _(or the Supreme Being)_. A peculiar feature to Natural Rights is that they are bestowed on the individual, and not a people, society or culture.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  What natural right do you believe has been "stripped" away from the Arab Palestinian?
> A:  None
> 
> Again, you are mixing-up the type and kind of rights.
> 
> ✪  Positive Rights:  Obligate,  or Imposes a Duty on someone to take some action - or to provide something - to effect the rights upon others.
> ✪  Negative Rights: Requires a stay of action - placing an injuction someone, - or - non-interference.​The "Right to Life" is a "NEGATIVE" - "Natural Right" → the injunction against murder.
> The "Right to Return" is _(if it exists)_ is a man-made law.  It is NOT a "Natural Right."  The "Right to Return" _(if it exists)_ is an injunction barring passage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit, Rocco?
> 
> The Palestinians only attack the occupation and it is their right to do that.
Click to expand...


Civilian targets are “the occupation”? 

You silly Pom Pom flailers for Islamic terrorists are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Hamas terrorist organization announced on Sunday that its indirect ceasefire talks with Israel have halted, _The Associated Press_reported.
> 
> Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri blamed the impasse on the Palestinian Authority, which has voiced its strong opposition to the talks.
> 
> Abu Zuhri said that in response, Hamas would be escalating its protests in new locations along Gaza's borders with Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas: Ceasefire talks with Israel are over


Abbas’ Fatah faction and Hamas have been at odds since 2007, when Hamas violently took control of Gaza from Fatah.​Why do they put that lie in every story?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> AGAIN*!*
> 
> You get this wrong, e  v e r y   s i n g l e   t i m e...
> 
> Natural rights are only those rights which a government or legal system cannot deny.  _(Life, Liberty, Choice of destiny, Happiness and maybe even Religion → that sort of thing; NOT political rights.)_
> 
> No person, no government, no legal system have denied these rights to the Arab Palestinians.  What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Natural "inalienable rights" do not come from government. If you hold of some form of Abrahamic belief, you would have been taught that the Natural "inalienable rights" are bestowed upon man by the "creator" _(or the Supreme Being)_. A peculiar feature to Natural Rights is that they are bestowed on the individual, and not a people, society or culture.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  What natural right do you believe has been "stripped" away from the Arab Palestinian?
> A:  None
> 
> Again, you are mixing-up the type and kind of rights.
> 
> ✪  Positive Rights:  Obligate,  or Imposes a Duty on someone to take some action - or to provide something - to effect the rights upon others.
> ✪  Negative Rights: Requires a stay of action - placing an injuction someone, - or - non-interference.​The "Right to Life" is a "NEGATIVE" - "Natural Right" → the injunction against murder.
> The "Right to Return" is _(if it exists)_ is a man-made law.  It is NOT a "Natural Right."  The "Right to Return" _(if it exists)_ is an injunction barring passage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit, Rocco?
> 
> The Palestinians only attack the occupation and it is their right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Civilian targets are “the occupation”?
> 
> You silly Pom Pom flailers for Islamic terrorists are a hoot.
Click to expand...

According to the IVGC.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
Click to expand...

Are you saying the popeye has more credibility than winnie the pooh cuz he's white?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> AGAIN*!*
> 
> You get this wrong, e  v e r y   s i n g l e   t i m e...
> 
> Natural rights are only those rights which a government or legal system cannot deny.  _(Life, Liberty, Choice of destiny, Happiness and maybe even Religion → that sort of thing; NOT political rights.)_
> 
> No person, no government, no legal system have denied these rights to the Arab Palestinians.  What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Natural "inalienable rights" do not come from government. If you hold of some form of Abrahamic belief, you would have been taught that the Natural "inalienable rights" are bestowed upon man by the "creator" _(or the Supreme Being)_. A peculiar feature to Natural Rights is that they are bestowed on the individual, and not a people, society or culture.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  What natural right do you believe has been "stripped" away from the Arab Palestinian?
> A:  None
> 
> Again, you are mixing-up the type and kind of rights.
> 
> ✪  Positive Rights:  Obligate,  or Imposes a Duty on someone to take some action - or to provide something - to effect the rights upon others.
> ✪  Negative Rights: Requires a stay of action - placing an injuction someone, - or - non-interference.​The "Right to Life" is a "NEGATIVE" - "Natural Right" → the injunction against murder.
> The "Right to Return" is _(if it exists)_ is a man-made law.  It is NOT a "Natural Right."  The "Right to Return" _(if it exists)_ is an injunction barring passage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened is that the ugly Arab Palestinian has forfeited these rights through the use of coercion, intimidation, fear and terror, and armed engagement against others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit, Rocco?
> 
> The Palestinians only attack the occupation and it is their right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Civilian targets are “the occupation”?
> 
> You silly Pom Pom flailers for Islamic terrorists are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the IVGC.
Click to expand...


You make up this nonsense as you go along.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are a bonefide threat to the peace and security of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am
Click to expand...


Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians should never have attacked the foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
Click to expand...


Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You do this quite frequently.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants, yes most of them escaping persecution and predudice, where not part of colonial power.  The Jewish People were offered an opportunity by the Allied Powers _(as a collective and not a single nation)_ approved at the San Remo Convention, to establish in Palestine _[an area under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)] _a national home for the Jewish people.  This area → the responsibility of which having been assume by the Allied Powers → pursuant to Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ after the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the future of these territories to be settled by the parties concerned _(the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> Two Points:
> 
> *ψ*  It was not an action Colonial action of the Allied Powers, as it was stipulated in the Mandate - AND - "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities"_ (ie the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> *ψ*  Neither the "civil or religious" rights of the inhabitants, in the former Occupied Enemy Territory_, _have no effect on the establishment of government, independence or sovereignty. Religious and Civil Rights have no impact:
> 
> ■  Even before the Treaty of Lausanne, at least three attempts were "made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  The Arab Palestinians declined, in all three instances, to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> ■  On the "rights" of the inhabitance in the post-War period following the Great War has no direct effect on:
> 
> The principle of equal rights,
> Self-determination of peoples,
> The international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,
> Territorial integrity,
> Political independence,
> Nothing was taken from the Arab Palestinians until the outbreak of hostilities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass
Click to expand...


So you are not against self-determination and sovereignty for peoples -- you just believe that conquest is the only way to obtain it?  And once conquered peoples lose that right in perpetuity?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the world powers have the authority to strip the Palestinians of their natural rights? The Palestinians have rightly said no for a hundred years.
> 
> You consistently post pages of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are not against self-determination and sovereignty for peoples -- you just believe that conquest is the only way to obtain it?  And once conquered peoples lose that right in perpetuity?
Click to expand...


Are you asking my opinion? Conquest is it has always been. Does the US give TX and Cali back to Mexico? Should Constantinople be returned to the Christians? Those "people" have 53+ other mostly Islamic countries to move to. They should.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are not against self-determination and sovereignty for peoples -- you just believe that conquest is the only way to obtain it?  And once conquered peoples lose that right in perpetuity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you asking my opinion? Conquest is it has always been. Does the US give TX and Cali back to Mexico? Should Constantinople be returned to the Christians? Those "people" have 53+ other mostly Islamic countries to move to. They should.
Click to expand...


Not so much then that the Native Americans can't have self-determination then?  Only that they must win it through violent military force and conquest, right?  I mean, you believe that if they could they would have the right to, yes?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are not against self-determination and sovereignty for peoples -- you just believe that conquest is the only way to obtain it?  And once conquered peoples lose that right in perpetuity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you asking my opinion? Conquest is it has always been. Does the US give TX and Cali back to Mexico? Should Constantinople be returned to the Christians? Those "people" have 53+ other mostly Islamic countries to move to. They should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not so much then that the Native Americans can't have self-determination then?  Only that they must win it through violent military force and conquest, right?  I mean, you believe that if they could they would have the right to, yes?
Click to expand...


Did you just answer my question with a question? That is freaking rude.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Why would Arab Palestinians have no rights to self-determination and sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are not against self-determination and sovereignty for peoples -- you just believe that conquest is the only way to obtain it?  And once conquered peoples lose that right in perpetuity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you asking my opinion? Conquest is it has always been. Does the US give TX and Cali back to Mexico? Should Constantinople be returned to the Christians? Those "people" have 53+ other mostly Islamic countries to move to. They should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not so much then that the Native Americans can't have self-determination then?  Only that they must win it through violent military force and conquest, right?  I mean, you believe that if they could they would have the right to, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you just answer my question with a question? That is freaking rude.
Click to expand...


I'm just trying to understand your POV.  

No, the US does not have to give TX and CA back to Mexico.  Both Mexicans and Amercians have self-determination and sovereignty.  The territory each expresses that self-determination and sovereignty is a matter of treaties between the two sovereigns.  Same answer with respect to Constantinople.  Existing treaties have taken care of this.  

We are discussing peoples who have no self-determination and sovereignty.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason Native Americans don’t have that in the US. They were conquered. All mostly Islam nations are not exactly tolerant. Don’t want another one. Pass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are not against self-determination and sovereignty for peoples -- you just believe that conquest is the only way to obtain it?  And once conquered peoples lose that right in perpetuity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you asking my opinion? Conquest is it has always been. Does the US give TX and Cali back to Mexico? Should Constantinople be returned to the Christians? Those "people" have 53+ other mostly Islamic countries to move to. They should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not so much then that the Native Americans can't have self-determination then?  Only that they must win it through violent military force and conquest, right?  I mean, you believe that if they could they would have the right to, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you just answer my question with a question? That is freaking rude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm just trying to understand your POV.
> 
> No, the US does not have to give TX and CA back to Mexico.  Both Mexicans and Amercians have self-determination and sovereignty.  The territory each expresses that self-determination and sovereignty is a matter of treaties between the two sovereigns.  Same answer with respect to Constantinople.  Existing treaties have taken care of this.
> 
> We are discussing peoples who have no self-determination and sovereignty.
Click to expand...


These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian". Same as with Native Americans, they need to assimilate or move. Israel gave many a chance to assimilate. Some did but most did not. Now they are SOL. They need to MOVE. Or conquer their land back. Israel will not give the West Bank back and will not lift the blockade on Gaza for obvious reasons. So yes, they have no right to self determination or sovereignty. Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian".


That is an argument I can find merit in.  That is - the argument that Jordan is the state for the Arab Palestinian people.  



> Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like


They haven't taken the steps necessary for self-determination and sovereignty.  Yes, I agree with that as well.



> and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.


They haven't the ability to "live peacefully with their neighbors".  Yes, I agree this is another valid argument.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> That is an argument I can find merit in.  That is - the argument that Jordan is the state for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't taken the steps necessary for self-determination and sovereignty.  Yes, I agree with that as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't the ability to "live peacefully with their neighbors".  Yes, I agree this is another valid argument.
Click to expand...


So then why are we debating, sir?


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> That is an argument I can find merit in.  That is - the argument that Jordan is the state for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't taken the steps necessary for self-determination and sovereignty.  Yes, I agree with that as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't the ability to "live peacefully with their neighbors".  Yes, I agree this is another valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then why are we debating, sir?
Click to expand...


Were we debating?  I thought I was only asking for clarification on your POV.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> That is an argument I can find merit in.  That is - the argument that Jordan is the state for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't taken the steps necessary for self-determination and sovereignty.  Yes, I agree with that as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't the ability to "live peacefully with their neighbors".  Yes, I agree this is another valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then why are we debating, sir?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were we debating?  I thought I was only asking for clarification on your POV.
Click to expand...


My error. Sorry.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, "where" would I get such an idea?  Why of course:  Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).



P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get this shit, Rocco?
> 
> The Palestinians only attack the occupation and it is their right to do that.


*(SPECIFICALLY)*

*Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
 Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty*
 *  ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]*

*Protected persons* *(that would be the Arab Palestinians)* who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power *(that would be the Israelis you say you have a "right" to attack)*, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, *shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment*, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

 The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  and 65 * may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons*, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.

 The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.

 In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.

*_____________________________________*
*••  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  ••*
*General Assembly Resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966
Entry into Force 23 March 1976*​_*Article 20 *_

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.


*_____________________________________*​
This insistence that the Arab Palestinians have some "right" to violence is simply WRONG_*!!!*_  The question is, where do you get the notion that you, or any other Arab Palestinians have the "right" to peddle your propaganda that you have some legal authority to  "commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power" --- OR --- the authority to incite others to violence based on this notion?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

100% WRONG_!!!_



P F Tinmore said:


> According to the IVGC.



See *Posting #11240* for the truth as to what it says.

v/r
R


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 100% WRONG_!!!_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the IVGC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See *Posting #11240* for the truth as to what it says.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

AAAARGGHH


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> That is an argument I can find merit in.  That is - the argument that Jordan is the state for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't taken the steps necessary for self-determination and sovereignty.  Yes, I agree with that as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't the ability to "live peacefully with their neighbors".  Yes, I agree this is another valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then why are we debating, sir?
Click to expand...

She's a LADY.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Ecocertifmrl said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> These peoples are Jordanians and Egyptians. There is no "Arab Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> That is an argument I can find merit in.  That is - the argument that Jordan is the state for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly because they don't even know what it would look like
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't taken the steps necessary for self-determination and sovereignty.  Yes, I agree with that as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and secondly because it would create another dangerous Islamic regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't the ability to "live peacefully with their neighbors".  Yes, I agree this is another valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then why are we debating, sir?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She's a LADY.
Click to expand...


Oh...I wrongly assumed a gender. Bleh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty*
> * ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]*


How does Article 68 apply to an illegal occupation? Or to put it another way, an occupation that violates virtually all tenets of a legal occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This insistence that the Arab Palestinians have some "right" to violence is simply WRONG_*!!!*_ The question is, where do you get the notion that you, or any other Arab Palestinians have the "right" to peddle your propaganda that you have some legal authority to "commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power" --- OR --- the authority to incite others to violence based on this notion?


Are you saying that all self defense is illegal?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no such statute that defines an Occupation as either "legal" or "illegal."  A territory is either occupied, or is not occupied.  Occupation is a state of being for any given territory.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty*
> * ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]*
> 
> 
> 
> How does Article 68 apply to an illegal occupation? Or to put it another way, an occupation that violates virtually all tenets of a legal occupation.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*



			
				Article 43 of the 1907 Hague Regulation said:
			
		

> Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> √  *Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state - Regulations: Article 43.*  •
> 
> Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power* to restore, and ensure, *as far as possible*, public order and safety, while respecting, *unless absolutely prevented*, the laws in force in the country.​



The Israelis are trying with all the measures in their power to contain the hatred and violence born in the predominately Arab Palestinian territory.  The fact that the Arab Palestinians are erupting in the territory only means that the Israeli's need to apply additional measures _(under the law)_ until such time as "far as possible," public order and safety are restored.  

Note, that the law take into account the attitude of the Arab Palestinians and their absolute prevention of public order and safety; purposely promoting violence.  

BUT _(and I say again)_, there is no international statute that outline what constitutes a legal or illegal occupation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say anything at all.  I repeated the law.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This insistence that the Arab Palestinians have some "right" to violence is simply WRONG_*!!!*_ The question is, where do you get the notion that you, or any other Arab Palestinians have the "right" to peddle your propaganda that you have some legal authority to "commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power" --- OR --- the authority to incite others to violence based on this notion?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that all self-defense is illegal?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You either OBEY the Law, → or → you are a criminal that is punishable under the law.
​
Self-defense is a case-by-case determination.  

If the police walk by on patrol, attempting to restore safety, law, and order, to the extent it is possible, and you spontaneously start throwing rocks at the police; that IS NOT self-defense.
I the "Right of Return" Marchers attempt to take some action to breach the border, that IS NOT self-defense.
If you attempt to use an explosives or other lethal devices against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place;  that IS NOT self-defense.
I could go on and on, but you get the point.

If you attempt to harm or kill any Israeli, or any member enforcing the occupation, THEN that is  ILLEGAL.

That is the LAW talking, not me.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Self-determination and self-defense are not interchangeable legal concepts.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no such statute that defines an Occupation as either "legal" or "illegal."  A territory is either occupied, or is not occupied.  Occupation is a state of being for any given territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty*
> * ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]*
> 
> 
> 
> How does Article 68 apply to an illegal occupation? Or to put it another way, an occupation that violates virtually all tenets of a legal occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 43 of the 1907 Hague Regulation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> √  *Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state - Regulations: Article 43.*  •
> 
> Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter *shall take all the measures in his power* to restore, and ensure, *as far as possible*, public order and safety, while respecting, *unless absolutely prevented*, the laws in force in the country.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis are trying with all the measures in their power to contain the hatred and violence born in the predominately Arab Palestinian territory.  The fact that the Arab Palestinians are erupting in the territory only means that the Israeli's need to apply additional measures _(under the law)_ until such time as "far as possible," public order and safety are restored.
> 
> Note, that the law take into account the attitude of the Arab Palestinians and their absolute prevention of public order and safety; purposely promoting violence.
> 
> BUT _(and I say again)_, there is no international statute that outline what constitutes a legal or illegal occupation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> BUT _(and I say again)_, there is no international statute that outline what constitutes a legal or illegal occupation.


It is true that a temporary occupation until public order and safety are restored is legal. However, occupying powers have obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them. Israel's settler colonial project has nothing to do with restoring public order and safety. 

I don't believe that there are any laws that specifically address settler colonialism, however, the processes involved do run afoul of international law. It is these illegal processes that the Palestinians fight against and it is their right to do so.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


Good interview, thanks.

The same shit that Israel is shoveling now.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> \
> However, occupying powers have obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them. [/quote[
> 
> List the obligations and restrictions and demonstrate how Israel violates them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> \
> However, occupying powers have obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them. [/quote[
> 
> List the obligations and restrictions and demonstrate how Israel violates them.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, and you pretend to be knowledgeable on this subject. Do your own homework.


----------



## Hollie

This is why peace is impossible with the fake people who claim they are “palestinians.”  All they want to do is murder Jews and destroy Israel. An official of the Palestinian Authority said this.  He works right under PA leader Abbas.

Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I am sure that you are skirting around the issue here just a bit.   In the broad sense _(and up and until 2015)_ and legally attributable, the UN _(UNSC+UNGA)_ and the EU consider the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip to be occupied.  Although that is becoming ever more a revisited question given the continued inability for the principal belligerents to re-open _(meaningful)_ negotiations.  Some outside observers even question the reality of a stable and formal government in Palestine, given the factional end-fighting and the inability to peacefully change administrations over the government after elections.

There are many who put forth the question if the Arab Palestinians ever had sovereign control over any parts of the  West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip; with the possible exception of territory designed as Area "A."

*SIDEBAR ISSUE:* _If the Arab Palestinians never established Sovereign Control, who or what is actually being "occupied."  Some suggest that on 1 August 1967, the Israel came into effective control over the West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as Terra Nullius [in international law, a territory over which Jordan (the prior sovereign) has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty]._  By law, is it:

•  Occupied Palestinian Territory?
•  Occupied Territory _Terra Nullius_?​
Given that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) did not yet make a Declaration of Independence, the question becomes, is Palestine a true sovereign state?  Or is it a territory that failed to achieve independence?



P F Tinmore said:


> It is true that a temporary occupation until public order and safety are restored is legal. However, occupying powers have obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them. Israel's settler colonial project has nothing to do with restoring public order and safety.
> 
> I don't believe that there are any laws that specifically address settler colonialism, however, the processes involved do run afoul of international law. It is these illegal processes that the Palestinians fight against and it is their right to do so.


*(COMMENT)*

As it appears that you are a bit confused on the use of the word "illegal" and what laws are involved with respect to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and the associated occupation.

If you are going to talk about, what is "legal" or "illegal," it is important that you select the appropriate law to discuss.  Otherwise, the discussion and your words become unsupportive to your cause.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli tolerance made it possible for an Arab terrorist to murder Ari Fuld. The Arab murderer even stopped and ordered falafel at a local Israeli stand frequented by both Arabs and Jews before his attack. Jews who enter Arab villages are lynched.

(full article online)

Perpetrators with a Victim Mentality


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not surprisingly, the report assigns no responsibility for the situation to Hamas, which has governed the Gaza Strip for a decade, encouraging an endless string of confrontations with Israel and Egypt, which have led to a deepening isolation of Gaza and its people. The Palestinian Authority is mentioned as a major culprit, for its decision to “reduce the monthly payments by $30 million to the area.”; the Government of Israel should “support a conducive environment for economic growth by lifting restrictions on trade and allowing the movement of goods and people, without which the economic situation in Gaza will never improve.”; and the US cuts to the tune of $50 to $60 million per year in aid program, combined with the cuts to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency program.

But not a word about Hamas, possibly because the authors take it for granted that Hamas is the chief culprit in the demise of Gaza’s economy, so there’s no need to mention it.

The only possible reference to Hamas and its disastrous management of the Strip is expressed toward the conclusion of the press release: “Legitimate institutions to govern Gaza in a transparent and efficient manner and reforms to create a positive business environment are also necessary for sustained economic recovery.”

There’s one other reference to Hamas in the following quote from Wes: “The economic and social situation in Gaza has been declining for over a decade but has deteriorated exponentially in recent months and has reached a critical point. Increased frustration is feeding into the increased tensions which have already started spilling over into unrest and setting back the human development of the region’s large youth population.”

This might indicate a possible reference to Hamas’ involvement in driving their economy down to the pits of darkness over the past few months, but who knows, maybe it’s global warming.

(full article online)

World Bank Reports Gaza Economy in Collapse


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> \
> However, occupying powers have obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them. [/quote[
> 
> List the obligations and restrictions and demonstrate how Israel violates them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, and you pretend to be knowledgeable on this subject. Do your own homework.
Click to expand...


Oh jeese, you like to make big sweeping statements and then can't back them up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I am sure that you are skirting around the issue here just a bit.   In the broad sense _(and up and until 2015)_ and legally attributable, the UN _(UNSC+UNGA)_ and the EU consider the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip to be occupied.  Although that is becoming ever more a revisited question given the continued inability for the principal belligerents to re-open _(meaningful)_ negotiations.  Some outside observers even question the reality of a stable and formal government in Palestine, given the factional end-fighting and the inability to peacefully change administrations over the government after elections.
> 
> There are many who put forth the question if the Arab Palestinians ever had sovereign control over any parts of the  West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip; with the possible exception of territory designed as Area "A."
> 
> *SIDEBAR ISSUE:* _If the Arab Palestinians never established Sovereign Control, who or what is actually being "occupied."  Some suggest that on 1 August 1967, the Israel came into effective control over the West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as Terra Nullius [in international law, a territory over which Jordan (the prior sovereign) has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty]._  By law, is it:
> 
> •  Occupied Palestinian Territory?
> •  Occupied Territory _Terra Nullius_?​
> Given that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) did not yet make a Declaration of Independence, the question becomes, is Palestine a true sovereign state?  Or is it a territory that failed to achieve independence?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that a temporary occupation until public order and safety are restored is legal. However, occupying powers have obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them. Israel's settler colonial project has nothing to do with restoring public order and safety.
> 
> I don't believe that there are any laws that specifically address settler colonialism, however, the processes involved do run afoul of international law. It is these illegal processes that the Palestinians fight against and it is their right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As it appears that you are a bit confused on the use of the word "illegal" and what laws are involved with respect to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and the associated occupation.
> 
> If you are going to talk about, what is "legal" or "illegal," it is important that you select the appropriate law to discuss.  Otherwise, the discussion and your words become unsupportive to your cause.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The "two state solution" is dead. The "peace Process" is dead. (Actually, there never was a peace process.) Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory as Britain said it was when it left Palestine in 1948. Palestine has been occupied since then. The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another misunderstanding you have.



P F Tinmore said:


> ... The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

The territory was NEVER under the sovereignty to the Arab Palestinians or the Arab Higher Committee or the PLO to → surrendered or ceded to Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...


On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).



> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.


But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Not surprisingly, the report assigns no responsibility for the situation to Hamas, which has governed the Gaza Strip for a decade, encouraging an endless string of confrontations with Israel and Egypt, which have led to a deepening isolation of Gaza and its people. The Palestinian Authority is mentioned as a major culprit, for its decision to “reduce the monthly payments by $30 million to the area.”; the Government of Israel should “support a conducive environment for economic growth by lifting restrictions on trade and allowing the movement of goods and people, without which the economic situation in Gaza will never improve.”; and the US cuts to the tune of $50 to $60 million per year in aid program, combined with the cuts to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency program.
> 
> But not a word about Hamas, possibly because the authors take it for granted that Hamas is the chief culprit in the demise of Gaza’s economy, so there’s no need to mention it.
> 
> The only possible reference to Hamas and its disastrous management of the Strip is expressed toward the conclusion of the press release: “Legitimate institutions to govern Gaza in a transparent and efficient manner and reforms to create a positive business environment are also necessary for sustained economic recovery.”
> 
> There’s one other reference to Hamas in the following quote from Wes: “The economic and social situation in Gaza has been declining for over a decade but has deteriorated exponentially in recent months and has reached a critical point. Increased frustration is feeding into the increased tensions which have already started spilling over into unrest and setting back the human development of the region’s large youth population.”
> 
> This might indicate a possible reference to Hamas’ involvement in driving their economy down to the pits of darkness over the past few months, but who knows, maybe it’s global warming.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> World Bank Reports Gaza Economy in Collapse


* "A Deliberate Cruelty: Rendering Gaza Unviable" with Dr. Sara Roy*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another misunderstanding you have.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NEVER under the sovereignty to the Arab Palestinians or the Arab Higher Committee or the PLO to → surrendered or ceded to Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. A country does not cease to exist due to occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
Click to expand...

Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another misunderstanding you have.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NEVER under the sovereignty to the Arab Palestinians or the Arab Higher Committee or the PLO to → surrendered or ceded to Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. A country does not cease to exist due to occupation.
Click to expand...


What country was occupied?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
Click to expand...

This belongs in the “Conspiracy Theory” section.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
Click to expand...


So, you believe Jordan is also occupied Palestinian territory?  Yes or no?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprisingly, the report assigns no responsibility for the situation to Hamas, which has governed the Gaza Strip for a decade, encouraging an endless string of confrontations with Israel and Egypt, which have led to a deepening isolation of Gaza and its people. The Palestinian Authority is mentioned as a major culprit, for its decision to “reduce the monthly payments by $30 million to the area.”; the Government of Israel should “support a conducive environment for economic growth by lifting restrictions on trade and allowing the movement of goods and people, without which the economic situation in Gaza will never improve.”; and the US cuts to the tune of $50 to $60 million per year in aid program, combined with the cuts to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency program.
> 
> But not a word about Hamas, possibly because the authors take it for granted that Hamas is the chief culprit in the demise of Gaza’s economy, so there’s no need to mention it.
> 
> The only possible reference to Hamas and its disastrous management of the Strip is expressed toward the conclusion of the press release: “Legitimate institutions to govern Gaza in a transparent and efficient manner and reforms to create a positive business environment are also necessary for sustained economic recovery.”
> 
> There’s one other reference to Hamas in the following quote from Wes: “The economic and social situation in Gaza has been declining for over a decade but has deteriorated exponentially in recent months and has reached a critical point. Increased frustration is feeding into the increased tensions which have already started spilling over into unrest and setting back the human development of the region’s large youth population.”
> 
> This might indicate a possible reference to Hamas’ involvement in driving their economy down to the pits of darkness over the past few months, but who knows, maybe it’s global warming.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> World Bank Reports Gaza Economy in Collapse
> 
> 
> 
> * "A Deliberate Cruelty: Rendering Gaza Unviable" with Dr. Sara Roy*
Click to expand...


She needs to get on the Hamas payroll. 

Hamas second-richest terror group in world, Forbes says


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This belongs in the “Conspiracy Theory” section.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?

In December 1948, at a conference which took place in Jericho, a group of hand-picked leaders of Palestinian Arabs resolved to ask King Abdullah of Transjordan to incorporate the Arab parts of Palestine into his kingdom. 

Annexation of the West Bank by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you believe Jordan is also occupied Palestinian territory?  Yes or no?
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This belongs in the “Conspiracy Theory” section.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> In December 1948, at a conference which took place in Jericho, a group of hand-picked leaders of Palestinian Arabs resolved to ask King Abdullah of Transjordan to incorporate the Arab parts of Palestine into his kingdom.
> 
> Annexation of the West Bank by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
Click to expand...


Why do you cut and paste when your cutting and pasting is not supportive of your falsified claims?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This belongs in the “Conspiracy Theory” section.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> In December 1948, at a conference which took place in Jericho, a group of hand-picked leaders of Palestinian Arabs resolved to ask King Abdullah of Transjordan to incorporate the Arab parts of Palestine into his kingdom.
> 
> Annexation of the West Bank by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you cut and paste when your cutting and pasting is not supportive of your falsified claims?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This belongs in the “Conspiracy Theory” section.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> In December 1948, at a conference which took place in Jericho, a group of hand-picked leaders of Palestinian Arabs resolved to ask King Abdullah of Transjordan to incorporate the Arab parts of Palestine into his kingdom.
> 
> Annexation of the West Bank by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you cut and paste when your cutting and pasting is not supportive of your falsified claims?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Your cartoons aside, who “hand picked” the Pal’istanian leaders?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine remains to be a non self governing territory ...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, there are currently TWO fully self-governing Palestinians territories -- Jordan (Arab Palestinians) and Israel (Jewish Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did surrender or cede land to Jordan.  How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their annexation plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you believe Jordan is also occupied Palestinian territory?  Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


Okay.  So Palestine ceded territory to Jordan.  How did that happen?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are really confused.

Answer four questions:

a ) What constitutes the permanent population?
b ) Where did Palestine as a self-governing institution find its territory?
c ) What is the legitimate Government of this state?
d) Does the State of Palestine have the capacity to enter into relations with the other states?​
The State of Palestine did not become an embryonic and self-governing institution until the PLO declared independence.  Independence of what was unknown at the time.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another misunderstanding you have.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NEVER under the sovereignty to the Arab Palestinians or the Arab Higher Committee or the PLO to → surrendered or ceded to Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. A country does not cease to exist due to occupation.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*
To "cease to exist" it must first "exist."  Answer the four questions. _(Just for starters.)_

I'm not sure what you are talking about.   I did not say that "Occupation Requires Sovereignty."  BUT. the Palestinians cannot truly claim to have a state if --- event before it came into existence, the territory was already controlled by the Israelis.

You don't have an argument for the existence of a sovereign state. 

•  When and where did the Arab Palestinians secure an independent and self-governing state?​A state does not come into existence just be a few words on a piece of paper.  You don't create a State, just by saying:  I'm a State!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> •  When and where did the Arab Palestinians secure an independent and self-governing state?​



Jordan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

But Bassil also has some interesting things to say about Syrian refugees:

  As Lebanon's foreign minister, Gebran Bassil has in recent months taken steps to quicken the return of Syrian civilians who in the past seven years crossed the border to flee civil war.

Speaking to The National, Mr Bassil hesitates to call such Syrians refugees, instead describing them as "migrants" and "displaced".

"Lebanon does not accept Syrians to be refugees, not one of them," he said on the margins of the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

His argument is that Lebanon is not a signatory to the Convention Relating To The Status Of Refugees, a UN multilateral treaty agreed in 1951, and thus is not required to grant refugee status.

He is also sensitive to the need and some public desire for repatriation of the more than one million Syrians in Lebanon because of the war.

"It's stipulated in our constitution, it’s related to the existence of the country that’s based on a certain equilibrium and balance, you cannot all of a sudden introduce 50 per cent of its population to the country."
---------------------

Lebanon doesn't legally consider Palestinians to be refugees - but it happily calls them refugees when it is convenient.

(full article online)

Lebanon calls Palestinians "refugees" but not Syrians. It's all political. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'

(full article online)

Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel



I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
Click to expand...


Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
Click to expand...


Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
Click to expand...


With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
Click to expand...



Efraim Halevy, the former head of Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad, says Iran is not an 'existential' threat to Israel.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
Click to expand...


Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Symbol of the 'Palestinian cause' reveals its true goal - not to remove 'settlements,' but to remove 'the big settlement - Israel.'
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Tamimi: Our goal is to remove Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?
Click to expand...


Just look at the UN Votes. Look at the rhetoric. I believe so. France, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden...not only have large Islamic populations but are also super liberal...which in turn means hate Jews....many times. I am hopefully wrong. I don't think I am.


----------



## JBvM

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised she is that blunt about it.  One would expect this will not go over well in Europe, which still holds to the two-state standard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just look at the UN Votes. Look at the rhetoric. I believe so. France, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden...not only have large Islamic populations but are also super liberal...which in turn means hate Jews....many times. I am hopefully wrong. I don't think I am.
Click to expand...

Liberals support Israel, just ask Barney Frank 

So dumb on many levels to equate an ideological leaning with hating Jews or Israel. 

Can somebody despise or disagree with Israel and not be accused of Jew hatred?


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of Europe was applauding I am sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just look at the UN Votes. Look at the rhetoric. I believe so. France, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden...not only have large Islamic populations but are also super liberal...which in turn means hate Jews....many times. I am hopefully wrong. I don't think I am.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberals support Israel, just ask Barney Frank
> 
> So dumb on many levels to equate an ideological leaning with hating Jews or Israel.
> 
> Can somebody despise or disagree with Israel and not be accused of Jew hatred?
Click to expand...


We are discussing the DESTRUCTION of a sovereign state here.  The willful, deliberate act of wiping an entire state out of existence.  So yeah, that's Holocaust level Jew-hatred.  

Somebody can disagree with policies or acts of Israel's government.  Totally legit.  If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic.


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  You think calling for the end of a state (the Jewish state) is acceptable in the international community?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just look at the UN Votes. Look at the rhetoric. I believe so. France, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden...not only have large Islamic populations but are also super liberal...which in turn means hate Jews....many times. I am hopefully wrong. I don't think I am.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberals support Israel, just ask Barney Frank
> 
> So dumb on many levels to equate an ideological leaning with hating Jews or Israel.
> 
> Can somebody despise or disagree with Israel and not be accused of Jew hatred?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are discussing the DESTRUCTION of a sovereign state here.  The willful, deliberate act of wiping an entire state out of existence.  So yeah, that's Holocaust level Jew-hatred.
> 
> Somebody can disagree with policies or acts of Israel's government.  Totally legit.  If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic.
Click to expand...

 "If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic."
Sad. Really sad 

Israel can destroy herself. She will never be destroyed from outside. Did you worry about the destruction of Iraq? Just wondering


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just look at the UN Votes. Look at the rhetoric. I believe so. France, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden...not only have large Islamic populations but are also super liberal...which in turn means hate Jews....many times. I am hopefully wrong. I don't think I am.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberals support Israel, just ask Barney Frank
> 
> So dumb on many levels to equate an ideological leaning with hating Jews or Israel.
> 
> Can somebody despise or disagree with Israel and not be accused of Jew hatred?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are discussing the DESTRUCTION of a sovereign state here.  The willful, deliberate act of wiping an entire state out of existence.  So yeah, that's Holocaust level Jew-hatred.
> 
> Somebody can disagree with policies or acts of Israel's government.  Totally legit.  If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic."
> Sad. Really sad
> 
> Israel can destroy herself. She will never be destroyed from outside. Did you worry about the destruction of Iraq? Just wondering
Click to expand...


Hatred of entire nations and entire peoples is always discriminatory.  Doesn't matter what country you are talking about.  So, yeah, if someone calls for the destruction of a sovereign state its always going to be problematic in my world.


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> Hatred of entire nations and entire peoples is always discriminatory.  Doesn't matter what country you are talking about.  So, yeah, if someone calls for the destruction of a sovereign state its always going to be problematic in my world.


Really? In times of war we Americans have hated and demonized every single enemy


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatred of entire nations and entire peoples is always discriminatory.  Doesn't matter what country you are talking about.  So, yeah, if someone calls for the destruction of a sovereign state its always going to be problematic in my world.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? In times of war we Americans have hated and demonized every single enemy
Click to expand...


I didn't say it hasn't happened.  I certainly didn't say it hasn't happened in the context of conflict.  I said it wasn't right.  Its not.  

Are there countries that the US is trying to destroy?  Which can not be permitted to exist?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> With many in Europe I do. Look at the UN votes. US always has to use its veto power. Antisemitism is not only alive and well but accepted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I totally agree that anti-semitism is alive and well.  But destroying a fully sovereign state because .... Jews is Holocaust level stuff.  Are we there again, already?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just look at the UN Votes. Look at the rhetoric. I believe so. France, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden...not only have large Islamic populations but are also super liberal...which in turn means hate Jews....many times. I am hopefully wrong. I don't think I am.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberals support Israel, just ask Barney Frank
> 
> So dumb on many levels to equate an ideological leaning with hating Jews or Israel.
> 
> Can somebody despise or disagree with Israel and not be accused of Jew hatred?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are discussing the DESTRUCTION of a sovereign state here.  The willful, deliberate act of wiping an entire state out of existence.  So yeah, that's Holocaust level Jew-hatred.
> 
> Somebody can disagree with policies or acts of Israel's government.  Totally legit.  If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If someone "despises" Israel, they are anti-semitic."
> Sad. Really sad
> 
> Israel can destroy herself. She will never be destroyed from outside. Did you worry about the destruction of Iraq? Just wondering
Click to expand...


Iraq with its dictator? No


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatred of entire nations and entire peoples is always discriminatory.  Doesn't matter what country you are talking about.  So, yeah, if someone calls for the destruction of a sovereign state its always going to be problematic in my world.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? In times of war we Americans have hated and demonized every single enemy
Click to expand...


Iraq is one of 50+ mostly Islam nations. Only one mostly Jewish one.


----------



## Shusha

Last I checked Iraq still exists.


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hatred of entire nations and entire peoples is always discriminatory.  Doesn't matter what country you are talking about.  So, yeah, if someone calls for the destruction of a sovereign state its always going to be problematic in my world.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? In times of war we Americans have hated and demonized every single enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say it hasn't happened.  I certainly didn't say it hasn't happened in the context of conflict.  I said it wasn't right.  Its not.
> 
> Are there countries that the US is trying to destroy?  Which can not be permitted to exist?
Click to expand...


The context would show your questions to be ridiculously irrelevant and not well thought out.

America is not a state comprised of people with centuries old customs, culture, and identity. America is constantly being remolded by newcomers. It can only be compared with the other English/British states that gave the world ideals of rights and liberty brought over with their founding members

Israel is surrounded by a group of states or nations, some created in the 20th century. But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not. Many if not most all of Israel's founders were European.

So America is not set against a group of states with people who feel Americans invaded and stole everything. Of course America did come into being at the expense of a people they nearly annihilated. After the native Americans were dealt with, there existed no one else to feel hostility towards Americans.

Egypt recognized Israel's right to exist? Right to exist - Wikipedia

If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it


----------



## JBvM

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Iraq is one of 50+ mostly Islam nations. Only one mostly Jewish one.



What does that have to do with anything? Seriously?  You are calling Israel a Theocracy? Weird. Truly weird


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> Last I checked Iraq still exists.


after we rebuilt it, sort of. The state was destroyed. Facts matter. After the invasion of a sovereign state, America dismantled the government, which essentially destroys a state


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not.


You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last I checked Iraq still exists.
> 
> 
> 
> after we rebuilt it, sort of. The state was destroyed. Facts matter. After the invasion of a sovereign state, America dismantled the government, which essentially destroys a state
Click to expand...


Except that it still exists.  So, no.  There was a regime change.  A change in government.  The state was badly harmed but not destroyed, else it would not BE HERE.  

The intent of the Tamini family, Hamas and about 60%, last I recall, of the Palestinian community is to destroy Israel.  Not a changed government, no government.  Not a modified self-determination for the Jewish people, no self-determination for the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it



You are certainly in error here.  I fully support the sovereign self-determination of the First Nations peoples of all the Americas, Australia and any other indigenous peoples.  The sooner the better.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

JBvM said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq is one of 50+ mostly Islam nations. Only one mostly Jewish one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything? Seriously?  You are calling Israel a Theocracy? Weird. Truly weird
Click to expand...


I am Saying destruction of Israel is the destruction of the only Jewish state. You weirdo Leftist dolt.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are really confused.
> 
> Answer four questions:
> 
> a ) What constitutes the permanent population?
> b ) Where did Palestine as a self-governing institution find its territory?
> c ) What is the legitimate Government of this state?
> d) Does the State of Palestine have the capacity to enter into relations with the other states?​
> The State of Palestine did not become an embryonic and self-governing institution until the PLO declared independence.  Independence of what was unknown at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another misunderstanding you have.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... The Palestinians have never surrendered or ceded any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NEVER under the sovereignty to the Arab Palestinians or the Arab Higher Committee or the PLO to → surrendered or ceded to Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. A country does not cease to exist due to occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> To "cease to exist" it must first "exist."  Answer the four questions. _(Just for starters.)_
> 
> I'm not sure what you are talking about.   I did not say that "Occupation Requires Sovereignty."  BUT. the Palestinians cannot truly claim to have a state if --- event before it came into existence, the territory was already controlled by the Israelis.
> 
> You don't have an argument for the existence of a sovereign state.
> 
> •  When and where did the Arab Palestinians secure an independent and self-governing state?​A state does not come into existence just be a few words on a piece of paper.  You don't create a State, just by saying:  I'm a State!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestine came into existence and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924. Palestinian became a nationality inside a territory defined by international borders. A people do not need permission to declare statehood. If so, who has the authority to grant or deny that permission? About 80 local Palestinian officials declared independence on their own land inside their own international borders in 1948. It was all perfectly legal. Nobody has the authority to undo that.


----------



## JBvM

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Iraq with its dictator? No


Americans support dictators

Saddam was evil. I supported the invasions but not because of the suspect WMD bs. I regret my former faith in American government to do the right thing after America took control of Iraq


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not.
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?
Click to expand...

simple answers? FU and no on both

stop accusing people with innuendo of being such


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last I checked Iraq still exists.
> 
> 
> 
> after we rebuilt it, sort of. The state was destroyed. Facts matter. After the invasion of a sovereign state, America dismantled the government, which essentially destroys a state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except that it still exists.  So, no.  There was a regime change.  A change in government.  The state was badly harmed but not destroyed, else it would not BE HERE.
> 
> The intent of the Tamini family, Hamas and about 60%, last I recall, of the Palestinian community is to destroy Israel.  Not a changed government, no government.  Not a modified self-determination for the Jewish people, no self-determination for the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

There was a regime change? So we added and abetted insertion of a regime? 

Who governed Iraq after the invasion? What state entity?


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are certainly in error here.  I fully support the sovereign self-determination of the First Nations peoples of all the Americas, Australia and any other indigenous peoples.  The sooner the better.
Click to expand...

none too bright are you?  _reading and comprehension _is not your strong suit

again: If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it


----------



## JBvM

AzogtheDefiler said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq is one of 50+ mostly Islam nations. Only one mostly Jewish one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything? Seriously?  You are calling Israel a Theocracy? Weird. Truly weird
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am Saying destruction of Israel is the destruction of the only Jewish state. You weirdo Leftist dolt.
Click to expand...

Now you sound very much like Trump. You did NOT say that


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not.
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> simple answers? FU and no on both
> 
> stop accusing people with innuendo of being such
Click to expand...


Stop making utterly ridiculous comments like, The Jewish people have no shared set of customs, culture and identity.

There are only two reasons I can think of why people would make such ridiculous statements -- one is ignorance, and the other is unreasonable hatred.  Or did you want to add a third?


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are certainly in error here.  I fully support the sovereign self-determination of the First Nations peoples of all the Americas, Australia and any other indigenous peoples.  The sooner the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> none too bright are you?  _reading and comprehension _is not your strong suit
> 
> again: If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it
Click to expand...


Oh goodie, another person who resorts to personal attacks when the questions get too hard.  

A group of Native Americans DOES EXIST (actually many, but we will keep it simple).  Let's use the Haudenosaunee Confederacy as an example.  If that group of Native Americans wanted to hold sovereignty over their historical and ancestral lands, regardless of the circumstances of how that was to be implemented, I would NOT HATE OR WANT TO DESTROY that Nation.  On the contrary, I would endeavor to support that Nation and its sovereignty to the fullest of my ability.  

Now, how's your reading comprehension?  You got that?


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not.
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> simple answers? FU and no on both
> 
> stop accusing people with innuendo of being such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop making utterly ridiculous comments like, The Jewish people have no shared set of customs, culture and identity.
> 
> There are only two reasons I can think of why people would make such ridiculous statements -- one is ignorance, and the other is unreasonable hatred.  Or did you want to add a third?
Click to expand...

The Israeli people do not .. as Israeli citizens. and you too are claiming unwittingly that Israel is a theocracy


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are certainly in error here.  I fully support the sovereign self-determination of the First Nations peoples of all the Americas, Australia and any other indigenous peoples.  The sooner the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> none too bright are you?  _reading and comprehension _is not your strong suit
> 
> again: If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide, and then wanted to take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US, and a world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh goodie, another person who resorts to personal attacks when the questions get too hard.
> 
> A group of Native Americans DOES EXIST (actually many, but we will keep it simple).  Let's use the Haudenosaunee Confederacy as an example.  If that group of Native Americans wanted to hold sovereignty over their historical and ancestral lands, regardless of the circumstances of how that was to be implemented, I would NOT HATE OR WANT TO DESTROY that Nation.  On the contrary, I would endeavor to support that Nation and its sovereignty to the fullest of my ability.
> 
> Now, how's your reading comprehension?  You got that?
Click to expand...

read it again.  again: *If a group of Native Americans existed worldwide*, and then wanted to *take a historically important (to them) piece of land somewhere in the continental US*, and a* world body government gave the ok and supplied them with weapons to achieve their goals*, I suspect Americans and people like you would hate and want to destroy that nation. I could be in error here, but kind of doubt it


----------



## JBvM

Israel right or wrong is so old. I used to subscribe to that, back when Israel faced a serious existential threat. It does not anymore


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not.
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> simple answers? FU and no on both
> 
> stop accusing people with innuendo of being such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop making utterly ridiculous comments like, The Jewish people have no shared set of customs, culture and identity.
> 
> There are only two reasons I can think of why people would make such ridiculous statements -- one is ignorance, and the other is unreasonable hatred.  Or did you want to add a third?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israeli people do not .. as Israeli citizens. and you too are claiming unwittingly that Israel is a theocracy
Click to expand...


The Jewish people share a unique (and ancient) language, holidays, life celebrations, burial customs, a system of laws, common stories and myths, works of art and literature, a very unique and specific world view, special clothing, ritual and cultural foods, a religion, historical landmarks and monuments.  That is most certainly customs, culture and identity.

There is absolutely no way you could in any objective way define "customs, culture and identity" and have it exclude the Jewish people.  Thus, door #2 -- special standards for Jews.


----------



## Shusha

Would someone show Louie the door, again, please?


----------



## JBvM

Shusha said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the peoples in those states have a shared set of customs, culture, and identity going way back. Israelis do not.
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> simple answers? FU and no on both
> 
> stop accusing people with innuendo of being such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop making utterly ridiculous comments like, The Jewish people have no shared set of customs, culture and identity.
> 
> There are only two reasons I can think of why people would make such ridiculous statements -- one is ignorance, and the other is unreasonable hatred.  Or did you want to add a third?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israeli people do not .. as Israeli citizens. and you too are claiming unwittingly that Israel is a theocracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people share a unique (and ancient) language, holidays, life celebrations, burial customs, a system of laws, common stories and myths, works of art and literature, a very unique and specific world view, special clothing, ritual and cultural foods, a religion, historical landmarks and monuments.  That is most certainly customs, culture and identity.
> 
> There is absolutely no way you could in any objective way define "customs, culture and identity" and have it exclude the Jewish people.  Thus, door #2 -- special standards for Jews.
Click to expand...



You keep saying Jews where it is about Israel.

All Jews are not Israeli


----------



## Shusha

JBvM said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right?!  The only question to ask is whether you are THAT colossally ignorant of the Jewish people or just anti-semtic?
> 
> 
> 
> simple answers? FU and no on both
> 
> stop accusing people with innuendo of being such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop making utterly ridiculous comments like, The Jewish people have no shared set of customs, culture and identity.
> 
> There are only two reasons I can think of why people would make such ridiculous statements -- one is ignorance, and the other is unreasonable hatred.  Or did you want to add a third?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israeli people do not .. as Israeli citizens. and you too are claiming unwittingly that Israel is a theocracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people share a unique (and ancient) language, holidays, life celebrations, burial customs, a system of laws, common stories and myths, works of art and literature, a very unique and specific world view, special clothing, ritual and cultural foods, a religion, historical landmarks and monuments.  That is most certainly customs, culture and identity.
> 
> There is absolutely no way you could in any objective way define "customs, culture and identity" and have it exclude the Jewish people.  Thus, door #2 -- special standards for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying Jews where it is about Israel.
> 
> All Jews are not Israeli
Click to expand...



Sure.  Well, let's flip that nut then, shall we?

Palestinians do not have a shared set of customs, culture and identity.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When police officers in America shoot unarmed black people, Jewish hands lurk in the background — so says Linda Sarsour, perhaps the most visible Muslim political advocate in the United States. She was a co-chair of the national Women’s March, and is a campaign surrogate for politicians, including Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

A program sponsored by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) that takes American police officials to Israel for a week-long seminar is fueling police brutality, Sarsour said earlier this month at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)’s annual convention.

“That [statement] is so horrific,” says Nisi Jacobs. Jacobs is a co-founder of the Women’s March for All, a group that broke away from the national Women’s March because of antisemitism concerns about Sarsour and national co-chair Tamika Mallory. Among its activities, Women’s March for All has circulated a petition calling on Sarsour and Mallory to be replaced.

“It’s [beyond] anti-Semitic,” Jacobs said. “She’s lying to a bunch of gullible, hurt people. She’s like a horrible guru that just lies because she has her own agenda.”

Assistant Police Chief Chris McIlvain of Austin, Texas, said that his experience of a 2015 ADL-sponsored seminar in Israel was “not even remotely” close to what Sarsour described.

There was no tactical training and no discussion of forceful or coercive techniques, he said. Police departments must maintain “a state of readiness” for all kinds of threats, from mass shootings to terrorist attacks. Israel has experience with these challenges that can be helpful to police departments in the US, which is why the trip was organized.

“The ADL is a good partner of law enforcement combating hate crimes of all types,” McIlvain said. “The idea is not to divert hate from one group to another; it’s to eliminate it.”

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour’s Blood Libel


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult is just boiling over with clever ideas. These idiots are little more than a criminal organization. 

I’m thinking that Israel might unleash a really punishing military response if  it’s citizens begin to disappear or worse, if the Islamic terrorists leave bodies of Israelis in the streets.  








PMW Bulletins
Fatah TV host anticipates taking Israelis hostage to "release our captives"
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Sept. 26, 2018 

Fatah TV host anticipates taking Israelis hostage to "release our captives" - PMW Bulletins

Share |



By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Commemorating the anniversary of the capture of 8 Israeli soldiers and holding them hostage in Lebanon in 1982, until Israel released 5,900 Palestinian and Arab terrorists from Israeli prisons, a Fatah TV host expressed his wish for a similar "operation" to "release our captives" - i.e., terrorists and murderers sitting in Israeli prisons.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Government of Palestine _(British Administration under the agreement by the Allied Powers)_ agreed upon in the 1920 San Remo Convention, came into existence.  The Allied Powers made all the determination pertaining to citizenship and nationality.  Prior to the Year End Repost of 1923, three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population had an influence within the Government of Palestine.  However, the High Commissioner could not persuade the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) to participate and cooperate with the government.

From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate, the High Commissioner exercised Governance over Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials; the Arab having decided to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.

The Mandatory Power _(High Commissioner)_ proposed “the establishment of an "Arab Agency" in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency.”  Establishing the historical behavior of uncooperative politics, the AHC declined.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine came into existence and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924. Palestinian became a nationality inside a territory defined by international borders. A people do not need permission to declare statehood. If so, who has the authority to grant or deny that permission? About 80 local Palestinian officials declared independence on their own land inside their own international borders in 1948. It was all perfectly legal. Nobody has the authority to undo that.


*(COMMENT)*

The Sykes-Picot Agreement, establishing the Boundary between the French Zone "A" and the British Zone "B."  This boundary was generalized in 1916 but the final demarcation was not the established until the Paulet–Newcombe Line was agreed upon.

• In 1920 "Franco-British Convention pertained to the boundaries pertaining to the boundaries between the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine.

•  The formal demarcation was not completed soleybetween the French and British Goverments until 1923 in the establishment of the Paulet–Newcombe Line; with the boundaries related to the Mandates of Palestine, Mesopotamia and Syria.​
This claim is nonsense. There was NO creation of some self-governing nation, for the former Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) population of local inhabitance, out of territory renounced by the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish Republic.  --- That territory _(under Article 16)_ was relinquished in favor of the Allied Powers covering the future of these territories _(and islands)_ being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned _(parties to the treaty, of which there was no Arab Palestinian representation)_.

The term "Palestine," in from 1922 through 1948, was defined as "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

The Arab Palestinian today, wants you to think (erroneously) that the territory West of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and South of the 2000 Demarcation to the Sinai Desert belongs to them.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> When police officers in America shoot unarmed black people, Jewish hands lurk in the background — so says Linda Sarsour, perhaps the most visible Muslim political advocate in the United States. She was a co-chair of the national Women’s March, and is a campaign surrogate for politicians, including Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
> 
> A program sponsored by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) that takes American police officials to Israel for a week-long seminar is fueling police brutality, Sarsour said earlier this month at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)’s annual convention.
> 
> “That [statement] is so horrific,” says Nisi Jacobs. Jacobs is a co-founder of the Women’s March for All, a group that broke away from the national Women’s March because of antisemitism concerns about Sarsour and national co-chair Tamika Mallory. Among its activities, Women’s March for All has circulated a petition calling on Sarsour and Mallory to be replaced.
> 
> “It’s [beyond] anti-Semitic,” Jacobs said. “She’s lying to a bunch of gullible, hurt people. She’s like a horrible guru that just lies because she has her own agenda.”
> 
> Assistant Police Chief Chris McIlvain of Austin, Texas, said that his experience of a 2015 ADL-sponsored seminar in Israel was “not even remotely” close to what Sarsour described.
> 
> There was no tactical training and no discussion of forceful or coercive techniques, he said. Police departments must maintain “a state of readiness” for all kinds of threats, from mass shootings to terrorist attacks. Israel has experience with these challenges that can be helpful to police departments in the US, which is why the trip was organized.
> 
> “The ADL is a good partner of law enforcement combating hate crimes of all types,” McIlvain said. “The idea is not to divert hate from one group to another; it’s to eliminate it.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s Blood Libel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> When police officers in America shoot unarmed black people, Jewish hands lurk in the background — so says Linda Sarsour, perhaps the most visible Muslim political advocate in the United States. She was a co-chair of the national Women’s March, and is a campaign surrogate for politicians, including Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
> 
> A program sponsored by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) that takes American police officials to Israel for a week-long seminar is fueling police brutality, Sarsour said earlier this month at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)’s annual convention.
> 
> “That [statement] is so horrific,” says Nisi Jacobs. Jacobs is a co-founder of the Women’s March for All, a group that broke away from the national Women’s March because of antisemitism concerns about Sarsour and national co-chair Tamika Mallory. Among its activities, Women’s March for All has circulated a petition calling on Sarsour and Mallory to be replaced.
> 
> “It’s [beyond] anti-Semitic,” Jacobs said. “She’s lying to a bunch of gullible, hurt people. She’s like a horrible guru that just lies because she has her own agenda.”
> 
> Assistant Police Chief Chris McIlvain of Austin, Texas, said that his experience of a 2015 ADL-sponsored seminar in Israel was “not even remotely” close to what Sarsour described.
> 
> There was no tactical training and no discussion of forceful or coercive techniques, he said. Police departments must maintain “a state of readiness” for all kinds of threats, from mass shootings to terrorist attacks. Israel has experience with these challenges that can be helpful to police departments in the US, which is why the trip was organized.
> 
> “The ADL is a good partner of law enforcement combating hate crimes of all types,” McIlvain said. “The idea is not to divert hate from one group to another; it’s to eliminate it.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s Blood Libel


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The term "Palestine," in from 1922 through 1948, was defined as "the territories to which the *Mandate for Palestine* applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."


Indeed, the Mandate *for* Palestine. The Mandate was not Palestine. Palestine existed separate from the Mandate and continued to exist after the Mandate left Palestine.

Nice smokescreen, though. This really does not address my post, as usual.


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Government of Palestine _(British Administration under the agreement by the Allied Powers)_ agreed upon in the 1920 San Remo Convention, came into existence.  The Allied Powers made all the determination pertaining to citizenship and nationality.  Prior to the Year End Repost of 1923, three attempts were made to establish an institution through which the Arab population had an influence within the Government of Palestine.  However, the High Commissioner could not persuade the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) to participate and cooperate with the government.
> 
> From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate, the High Commissioner exercised Governance over Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials; the Arab having decided to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> The Mandatory Power _(High Commissioner)_ proposed “the establishment of an "Arab Agency" in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency.”  Establishing the historical behavior of uncooperative politics, the AHC declined.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine came into existence and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924. Palestinian became a nationality inside a territory defined by international borders. A people do not need permission to declare statehood. If so, who has the authority to grant or deny that permission? About 80 local Palestinian officials declared independence on their own land inside their own international borders in 1948. It was all perfectly legal. Nobody has the authority to undo that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Sykes-Picot Agreement, establishing the Boundary between the French Zone "A" and the British Zone "B."  This boundary was generalized in 1916 but the final demarcation was not the established until the Paulet–Newcombe Line was agreed upon.
> 
> • In 1920 "Franco-British Convention pertained to the boundaries pertaining to the boundaries between the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine.
> 
> •  The formal demarcation was not completed soleybetween the French and British Goverments until 1923 in the establishment of the Paulet–Newcombe Line; with the boundaries related to the Mandates of Palestine, Mesopotamia and Syria.​
> This claim is nonsense. There was NO creation of some self-governing nation, for the former Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) population of local inhabitance, out of territory renounced by the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish Republic.  --- That territory _(under Article 16)_ was relinquished in favor of the Allied Powers covering the future of these territories _(and islands)_ being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned _(parties to the treaty, of which there was no Arab Palestinian representation)_.
> 
> The term "Palestine," in from 1922 through 1948, was defined as "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
> 
> The Arab Palestinian today, wants you to think (erroneously) that the territory West of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and South of the 2000 Demarcation to the Sinai Desert belongs to them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

ZIONISTS ARE SCUM


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The term "Palestine," in from 1922 through 1948, was defined as "the territories to which the *Mandate for Palestine* applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate *for* Palestine. The Mandate was not Palestine. Palestine existed separate from the Mandate and continued to exist after the Mandate left Palestine.
> 
> Nice smokescreen, though. This really does not address my post, as usual.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you are forever befuddled. The “Magical Kingdom of Disney Pal’istan” you have invented existed as a territory of the former Ottoman Empire. 

Indeed, this schoolboy idea you have that the Islamic caliphate would last forever is quite silly. You forget that the Ottoman Empire collapsed from its own dead weight long before 1924. 

Indeed!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When police officers in America shoot unarmed black people, Jewish hands lurk in the background — so says Linda Sarsour, perhaps the most visible Muslim political advocate in the United States. She was a co-chair of the national Women’s March, and is a campaign surrogate for politicians, including Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
> 
> A program sponsored by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) that takes American police officials to Israel for a week-long seminar is fueling police brutality, Sarsour said earlier this month at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)’s annual convention.
> 
> “That [statement] is so horrific,” says Nisi Jacobs. Jacobs is a co-founder of the Women’s March for All, a group that broke away from the national Women’s March because of antisemitism concerns about Sarsour and national co-chair Tamika Mallory. Among its activities, Women’s March for All has circulated a petition calling on Sarsour and Mallory to be replaced.
> 
> “It’s [beyond] anti-Semitic,” Jacobs said. “She’s lying to a bunch of gullible, hurt people. She’s like a horrible guru that just lies because she has her own agenda.”
> 
> Assistant Police Chief Chris McIlvain of Austin, Texas, said that his experience of a 2015 ADL-sponsored seminar in Israel was “not even remotely” close to what Sarsour described.
> 
> There was no tactical training and no discussion of forceful or coercive techniques, he said. Police departments must maintain “a state of readiness” for all kinds of threats, from mass shootings to terrorist attacks. Israel has experience with these challenges that can be helpful to police departments in the US, which is why the trip was organized.
> 
> “The ADL is a good partner of law enforcement combating hate crimes of all types,” McIlvain said. “The idea is not to divert hate from one group to another; it’s to eliminate it.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s Blood Libel
Click to expand...



Ahh, yes. The socialist and the Islamic fascist.

It seems these ladies have no concept of the misery and death that has accompanied socialism in the 20th century and the misery and death that has accompanied Islamic fascism since the 7th century.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The term "Palestine," in from 1922 through 1948, was defined as "the territories to which the *Mandate for Palestine* applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Mandate *for* Palestine. The Mandate was not Palestine. Palestine existed separate from the Mandate and continued to exist after the Mandate left Palestine.
> 
> Nice smokescreen, though. This really does not address my post, as usual.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I look at this statement of yours and I see through the fog in it.

Yes, sure, the physics of says, the ground that might have been referred to as "Palestine" would still there, Mandate or not.  BUT, without the Mandates, it might still be under the "Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)."  Remember, the occupation by the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) lasted a decade after the Great War and then lasted a half century after WW_II_.

It is not at all clear that the Government or the territorial subdivisions would have been made at all.  Any number of scenarios might have come to pass if the Mandates had not been established.  Remember, at the end of WW_II_ the British had effective control of all the territory from the Persian Frontier to the Mediterranean.  The British might have divided the occupied expanse any number of ways.  It is distinctly possible, absent the Mandates, that given a post-War era totally without Mandates, the 21st Century World of the Middle East, Persian Gulf and Central Asia might have been shaped entirely different.  There might not even have been a Palestine at all.  The people might have been called Assryian and the territroy might just as easily have been call Levant. 

Your assertian that the Mandate for Palestine is not Palestine _(with international borders)_, which BTW no one claimed _(an allegation without substance)_, is undefined vapor politics.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ theliq, et al,

Oh come now_!_



theliq said:


> ZIONISTS ARE SCUM



What is this, National _ad Hominem_ Day_?_

v/r
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ theliq, et al,
> 
> Oh come now_!_
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> ZIONISTS ARE SCUM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this, National _ad Hominem_ Day_?_
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...


He’s upset because he doesn’t have enough


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When police officers in America shoot unarmed black people, Jewish hands lurk in the background — so says Linda Sarsour, perhaps the most visible Muslim political advocate in the United States. She was a co-chair of the national Women’s March, and is a campaign surrogate for politicians, including Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
> 
> A program sponsored by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) that takes American police officials to Israel for a week-long seminar is fueling police brutality, Sarsour said earlier this month at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)’s annual convention.
> 
> “That [statement] is so horrific,” says Nisi Jacobs. Jacobs is a co-founder of the Women’s March for All, a group that broke away from the national Women’s March because of antisemitism concerns about Sarsour and national co-chair Tamika Mallory. Among its activities, Women’s March for All has circulated a petition calling on Sarsour and Mallory to be replaced.
> 
> “It’s [beyond] anti-Semitic,” Jacobs said. “She’s lying to a bunch of gullible, hurt people. She’s like a horrible guru that just lies because she has her own agenda.”
> 
> Assistant Police Chief Chris McIlvain of Austin, Texas, said that his experience of a 2015 ADL-sponsored seminar in Israel was “not even remotely” close to what Sarsour described.
> 
> There was no tactical training and no discussion of forceful or coercive techniques, he said. Police departments must maintain “a state of readiness” for all kinds of threats, from mass shootings to terrorist attacks. Israel has experience with these challenges that can be helpful to police departments in the US, which is why the trip was organized.
> 
> “The ADL is a good partner of law enforcement combating hate crimes of all types,” McIlvain said. “The idea is not to divert hate from one group to another; it’s to eliminate it.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Linda Sarsour’s Blood Libel
Click to expand...


A group that praises convicted murderers has a problem with police brutality?
Raises up lots of questions regarding their mental health


----------



## Hollie

So often, it seems as if the planet is standing by with casual indifference as a franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc_. exploits a dedicated welfare fraud to finance, support and promote death and destruction. 

*

Abbas - a world leader in supporting terrorists*

Abbas - a world leader in supporting terrorists - PMW Bulletins

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

As Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas takes the podium at the UN, it is important to remember that this man is a world leader in supporting terrorists.

The latest terrorist Abbas has chosen to honor specifically is Nasser Awais, a Palestinian serving 14 life sentences for murdering 14 people. Abbas decided to raise Awais to the rank of "major general" as "a sign of appreciation for his struggle and sacrifice for the homeland." [Official Fatah Facebook page, Sept. 9, 2018]

Announcing Abbas' decision to promote Awais, the Fatah Movement mentioned among Awais' accomplishments that he "established the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in a direct appointment by [former PA] President Yasser Arafat." The US, Canada, the EU, and other countries have declared the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades a terror organization. The Brigades is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ rylah, et al,



rylah said:


> A group that praises convicted murderers has a problem with police brutality?
> Raises up lots of questions regarding their mental health


*(THOUGHT)*

That's quite elegant*!*

v/r
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The education of Palestinian schoolchildren must change drastically if there is ever to be a lasting negotiated peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. Why? Because these schools have been inciting three generations of young Palestinians to hate and kill Jews, and the only means of conflict resolution that these students have been exposed to is violence.

For children all over the world, the new school year is filled with promise and excitement, affording them the opportunity for personal development so that they may eventually become productive citizens of their perspective communities. The same cannot be said for Palestinian children. The United Nations’ Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA and the Palestinian leadership have manipulated their education system to serve a different purpose. Rather than an education that strives to better the child, they exploit impressionable minds, indoctrinating these children into a culture of hate, thereby perpetuating the conflict rather than resolving it. Until their education system changes, the region is at least a generation away from a true, sustainable peace.

Palestinian schools, including various private schools belonging to Christian churches and Islamic charity foundations, all receive their textbooks from the PA Ministry of Education’s Curricula Center in Ramallah.

(full article online)

UNRWA’s Message of Hate and Indoctrination


----------



## Sixties Fan

Already in 2014, Mahmoud Abbas instituted life imprisonment with forced labor for “the clandestine transfer, leasing or selling of lands to a hostile country or its citizens”(read: Jews). The previous penalty for the “clandestine transfer of land” had been temporary forced labor. At the time, the “… Supreme Fatwa Council… chaired by the Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine, Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, designated anyone selling Palestinian real estate to the enemy a traitor to Allah and His Messenger, as well as to his religion and homeland, and [decreed that] he is to be shunned by all Muslims.”

Earlier this year, the mufti said, “The basis is that Palestine is kharaj (i.e., taxable land in Islam) and waqf (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law) land, and it is forbidden by religious law to sell its lands and transfer them to the enemies’ ownership… The transfer of ownership of territory of Islam (dar Al-Islam) to enemies is invalid, and constitutes treason against Supreme Allah and his Prophet [Muhammad] … Anyone who sells his land to his enemies or receives compensation for it is sinning, because anyone that sells land to enemies is facilitating the removal of Muslims from their lands, and Blessed and Supreme Allah equates him to those who fight Muslims because of their religion… The selling of lands to enemies and negotiation [to sell] to them are heresy through actions, and considered loyalty to infidels who are fighting [Muslims]. This loyalty [to infidels] leads to banishment from the nation, and anyone who does this is considered as one who leaves Islam and a traitor against Allah, His honorable prophet, His religion, and His homeland… The Muslims must excommunicate him, and not do business with him, not marry him, not demonstrate friendliness to him, not participate in his funeral, not pray for him, and not bury him in Muslim cemeteries.”

The Arabs who tried to sell land to Jews in Hebron can look forward to life imprisonment and a subhuman existence as outcasts, “apostates” subjected to forced labor for engaging in something that most people would probably describe as “co-existence”.

However, unsurprisingly, Mahmoud Abbas and his PA, funded by the West to the tune of billions of dollars, are just not into “co-existence”. Just as they are not into “diversity”, “tolerance”, “inclusiveness” and “sharing the land”. They are, however, into discriminatory laws in the spirit of the old Nazis – and just like those old Nazis, they refuse to tolerate anyone who thinks differently.

(full article online)

The Flagrant Racism of the Palestinian Authority


----------



## Sixties Fan

The initial verse is interesting. It comes from the Quran, 47:7.

Here is the context of the Quranic statement:

_1. Those who disbelieve and repel from the path of God—He nullifies their works._

_2. While those who believe, and work righteousness, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad—and it is the truth from their Lord—He remits their sins, and relieves their concerns._

_3. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehoods, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. God thus cites for the people their examples._

_4. When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had God willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of God, He will not let their deeds go to waste._

_5. He will guide them, and will improve their state of mind._

_6. And will admit them into Paradise, which He has identified for them._

_7. O you who believe! If you support God, He will support you, and will strengthen your foothold._

_8. But as for those who disbelieve, for them is perdition, and He will waste their deeds._

_9. That is because they hated what God revealed, so He nullified their deeds._

_10. Have they not journeyed through the earth and seen the consequences for those before them? God poured destruction upon them, and for the unbelievers is something comparable._

_11. That is because God is the Master of those who believe, while the disbelievers have no master._

This message is anything but peaceful.

(full article online)

The Quranic verse that Mahmoud Abbas quoted to Palestinian youth ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Senior Hamas member Hamad Houdri, who owns a money-changing business declared by Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman (YIsrael Beytenu) to be a terror organization, convinced Gaza businessmen to work with his business in exchange for financial benefits.

Thousands of textile products were scheduled to be sold to Gaza civilians and the profits handed over to Hamas, for use in terror activities in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. Some of the funds would have gone to pay Hamas terrorists' salaries, while others were intended for use in funding terror attacks and acquiring illegal weapons.

Thanks to operational and intelligence activities, Israeli security forces and Tax Authority officials succeeded in stopping and confiscating several of the containers.

(Full article online)

Textile merchants helped aid Hamas terror


----------



## Sixties Fan

Images featured in Palestinian Authority textbooks reviewed by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (IMPACT-se). Photo: IMPACT-se.





“Palestine after the 1948 War.” Geography and Modern History of Palestine, Vol. 2, Grade 10, 2017, p. 8. Photo: IMPACT-se.

(full article online)

Report: Palestinian Textbooks Claim Entirety of Israel as Arab Land, Call Jews ‘Sinful and Liars’


----------



## Sixties Fan

The World Bank says that the “economy” of the Gaza Strip is collapsing.

This is or should be about as shocking as the discovery that there is gambling at Rick’s café. The word “economy,” which implies at least some productivity, barely fits. Gaza has survived on UNRWA stipends that have supported 1.3 million people with Palestinian refugee status (out of a total population of 1.8 million), on payments from the Palestinian Authority (PA) to its tens of thousands of “employees” (who either do nothing or work for Hamas), and on other donations from Europe, the US, and the Arab world.

The World Bank notes that 70% of young people in Gaza are unemployed, and 54% of the population live below the poverty line (but next door to them live hundreds of Hamas-connected millionaires).

Now the cash spigot is being turned off. Some blame US President Trump, who has cut funds for the special Palestinian-only refugee agency UNRWA, but the underlying reason is the Malthusian fact that the international community can no longer afford to support a geometrically-increasing population of beggars.

The crisis will be discussed at a meeting this week of the “Ad Hoc Liaison Committee” of international donors and other interested parties under UN auspices and chaired by the Norwegian Foreign Minister. The bank “blamed a number of factors, including Israeli restrictions on goods and movement into Gaza and Palestinian Authority sanctions against the Hamas ruled enclave in an attempt to force Hamas to relinquish its authority there.”

Could there be a more blatant and absurd substitution of cause and effect?

Let’s look at the real reasons for the crisis. First there is the structural problem inherent in the “Palestinian Refugee” system set up almost 70 years ago, which guarantees an ever-increasing population of dependents who are kept that way on the chimerical assumption that someday they will “return” to “their homes” in what is today the Jewish state of Israel. They are both paid and educated to this end, and only this end.

Second, there is the political situation in Gaza, ruled by the internationally recognized terrorist organization, Hamas. Of the billions that the US and EU pump into Gaza via UNRWA, the PA, or directly, Hamas officials steal some for their personal use, and divert as much as they can of the rest into preparations for war with Israel, including digging very expensive tunnels which are shored up with concrete and iron imported for civilian purposes, and building rockets to fire at Israeli communities. Instead of working at the jobs that don’t exist, young Gazans participate in riots at the border fence with Israel, try to provoke IDF soldiers into shooting them, and launch incendiary devices into Israel.

Every few years they succeed in provoking a big enough reaction from Israel that whatever infrastructure they have left is severely damaged. Then they are given international aid to rebuild it, which promptly goes into more rockets and tunnels. This is repeated over and over.


(full article online)

Puncturing the Palestinian Refugee Myth (Vic Rosenthal) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi.  She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.  


Sixties Fan said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

She had - absolutely - no regard for life.

And then the Arab Palestinians want the rest of the world to be exposed to hundreds of thousands of these idolatrous psychopaths that venerate the heathen Dalal al-Maghribi.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi.  She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 218859
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She had - absolutely - no regard for life.
> 
> And then the Arab Palestinians want the rest of the world to be exposed to hundreds of thousands of these idolatrous psychopaths that venerate the heathen Dalal al-Maghribi.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Arab Palestinian identity is that they value death, more than they value life.
That is what has been taught to them since they lost in 1948 and 1967.  It is their curriculum.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi.  She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 218859
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She had - absolutely - no regard for life.
> 
> And then the Arab Palestinians want the rest of the world to be exposed to hundreds of thousands of these idolatrous psychopaths that venerate the heathen Dalal al-Maghribi.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi. She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.


Still much better than the assholes who kicked her out of her country.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi.  She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 218859
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She had - absolutely - no regard for life.
> 
> And then the Arab Palestinians want the rest of the world to be exposed to hundreds of thousands of these idolatrous psychopaths that venerate the heathen Dalal al-Maghribi.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi. She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still much better than the assholes who kicked her out of her country.
Click to expand...


She was merely a remnant of Islamic colonizers, like the rest of Your Jihadi filth.
You know where *Maghreb* is on the map?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shu'fat Camp UNRWA health center very concerned over - obesity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Oh, this is so unreal.  I don't suppose you realize that Dalal al-Maghribi had to leave her home country (Lebanon) to illegally enter Israel to perpetrate a series of terrorist acts.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi. She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Still much better than the assholes who kicked her out of her country.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Dalal al-Maghribi never lived in Israel.  And she was never kicked out "of her country."   Neither the Israel or Lebanese authorities prevented her from living in the country of birth; Sabra Refugee Camp outside of Beirut, Lebanon.

I know that the UNRWA CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ allows their accompanying relatives (descendants) to receive social and protective services.

But make no mistake.  The psychopath al-Maghribi never lived in Israel, the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ or the Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

Sixties Fan, I just realized that I should have addressed this comment to P F Tinmore.

I apologize.

v/r
R



RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> Oh, this is so unreal.  I don't suppose you realize that Dalal al-Maghribi had to leave her home country (Lebanon) to illegally enter Israel to perpetrate a series of terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just find it appalling that so many Arab Palestinians find some redeeming qualities in Dalal al-Maghribi. She "was" a psychopath, a mass murderer and yet honored by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Still much better than the assholes who kicked her out of her country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Dalal al-Maghribi never lived in Israel.  And she was never kicked out "of her country."   Neither the Israel or Lebanese authorities prevented her from living in the country of birth; Sabra Refugee Camp outside of Beirut, Lebanon.
> 
> I know that the UNRWA CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ allows their accompanying relatives (descendants) to receive social and protective services.
> 
> But make no mistake.  The psychopath al-Maghribi never lived in Israel, the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ or the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

What Do Palestinian Propagandists Actually Mean by “Peace”?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Wars for Israel's existence displaced 5 million Palestinians?

Even if for some reason one can say that refugee's descendants will be considered refugees forever no matter what - even then the basic facts are wrong. About half of the Arabs who did flee in 1947-48 left before Israel was established.

This is the sort of false reporting that leads to anti-Israel sentiment worldwide. If only the media would note every time they mention 5 million "Palestinian refugees" that the number uniquely includes all of their descendants as well, no matter where they live, even if they become citizens elsewhere, people would start to realize that "Palestine refugees" are not refugees at all.

(full article online)

MSN lists Palestinians among worst refugee crises in history - by lying ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

So, a brief fisking of Abbas' speech (as written, not as delivered,), that the media refuse to do because it would make him look bad:

" I have come to ask for the freedom, independence and justice of my oppressed people, who have been under the yoke of the Israeli occupation for 51 years."

 You could have had freedom if you had accepted any of a number of peace plans.

" I return to you today. This colonial occupation continues to undermine our efforts to build the institutions of our future State."

Funny - Jews managed to build the institutions of their future state under British rule, with British soldiers right outside the door. Israeli soldiers aren't in Ramallah.

 " We note, ladies and gentlemen, that Israeli settlers and even the Israeli army every day trample the sanctity of our holy sites, especially the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Church of the Resurrection."

I am not aware of any Jews hanging around any churches - since they are not built on Jewish holy spots. To say that no Jew can visit a Jewish holy spot that pre-dates the Muslim claim to it by a thousand years, and to claim that such a visit is "trampling its sanctity," is nothing short of antisemitism.

(full article online)

Fisking Abbas' UN speech ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) reportedly received a tip from a foreign security service about the man, who arrived some time ago from Libya using a false passport.

The German newspaper Welt reported that the man intended to use chemical weapons for his planned terror attack in Israel, and in a phone call intercepted by security officials stated that he had already acquired the necessary materials.

(full article online)

Palestinian in Germany caught planning chemical terror attack in Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA reportedly arrests dozens of Hamas members in the West Bank


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The PA, boycotting Hamas and Gaza ]

Abbas Planning to Impose Additional Sanctions on Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Qalqilya, hundreds of Palestinians watched Abbas' UN speech at an outdoor event with Fatah flags. The front row of people, many of them dignitaries, were obviously requested to hold photographs of Mahmoud Abbas just to make it look like Abbas has widespread support.

There is nothing spontaneous about this. On the contrary, some of them seem very reluctant.





(full article online)

Palestinians in Qalqilya forced to hold pictures to show support for Abbas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What endless world aid to Palestinians continues to tell them they can get away with ]

A Jewish family from Nazareth Illit was attacked on Friday afternoon by Arabs in the village of Yafia in the Galilee region in northern Israel.

The incident occurred when the villagers identified Jews were sitting in a vehicle that was stuck in a traffic jam in the village. and then began to attack the vehicle. The Honenu legal aid organization reported that the Arabs then attacked the car with rocks and clubs.

The family members said that one of the assailants began to hit the car with an iron pipe, broke the windows and hit the family members. Some of the family members were injured and were evacuated for medical treatment at the Italian Hospital in Nazareth.

The driver eventually managed to maneuver among the vehicles around him and escape from the village. The Israel Police are taking testimonies from the family at the emergency room.

(full article online)

Lynch attempt in northern Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who said that they do not follow our calendar? The despicable murders by the Palestinian Arab terrorists of innocent Israeli people, children, teenagers, rabbis, teachers, housewives are often committed on or close to Shabbat or our holidays.

Our New Year 5779 started that way. Two days before Yom Kippur, Ari Fuld, dear friend of so many people, the real lion of Judah, one of the best of us, was murdered  in another vicious attack by a Palestinian Arab terrorist, a 17-year old barbarian trained and indoctrinated by the bestial system that is run and executed by criminals.

Ari Fuld,  45-years old, father of four, courageous, motivated, articulated, devoted, a great Jewish man who loved his country, his land and his people. An enormous loss for Israel and Jewish world. And it is just absolutely surreal for anyone who knew Ari.

And the terrorist? Slightly wounded, he was rushed to the Hadassah hospital in Jerusalem and treated in the Israeli hospital by the Israeli doctors.

Wrong. Utterly wrong.

The primary value of Judaism is human life. Human, not the lives of the creatures who are bred to commit barbaric crimes, with criminal psychology and modes of behaviour.

They are cold-blood terrorists, would they be seventeen or seventy. The value of human life is not valid by definition if those who murder people for business are treated equally with their victims. This is absurd.
---------
Terrorists do not have human rights. When the state of Israel implemented this logical policy, Israel was perceived and treated in the world substantially differently. And Israeli people were not slaughtered so casually in their own country.

But it is not about how anybody treats us. It is about how we treat our people - and our enemies. Sworn enemies who kill Jews for both business and pleasure receiving those abominable ‘stipends’ for years, turning terror into profitable business. In the Jewish state. On Jewish soil. This is wrong. Absolutely wrong. And it must not be tolerated, not just the ongoing terror against the Jewish people on Jewish soil, but the attitude and policy towards it.

(full article online)

Terrorists do not have human rights


----------



## Sixties Fan

why jerusalem is holy to muslims and palestinians ?


----------



## Hollie

Who are (the dwindling), Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians”







It seems “Al” is a bit confused. The absorption of Arab-Moslem “refugees” by neighboring Islamist nations is actually the function of those people returning to their nations of origin.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Hurray!!!!   Gaza is NOT  OCCUPIED  !!!!]

A senior Hamas official claimed that Gaza freed itself of the "Israeli occupation" in 2005.

Speaking on Friday at one of the violent Gaza border riots, Ahmad Bahar said the Al-Aqsa Intifada (also known as the Second Intifada - ed.) which began in September 2000 brought about the "redemption of Gaza and the removal of the Israeli occupation."

(full article online)

Hamas: Gaza is free of the Israeli 'occupation'


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian teenager jailed for assaulting an Israeli soldier, says she supports violence against Jews and seeks the destruction of Israel.

And I believe that groups such as J Street, which have defended Tamimi and claimed that she is nonviolently resisting “the Israeli occupation of the West Bank,” owe the Jewish community an apology for refusing to believe her.
------
She specifically refused to say that she supports “peaceful” actions. She specifically said she supports assaulting Israeli soldiers and “throwing stones”—meaning, trying to stone Jews to death. She also specifically said that she “respects every type of resistance”—obviously including the other kinds of “resistance” in which Palestinians engage: knives, guns, bombs.

Tamimi has never explicitly condemned stabbing, shooting or bombing Jews. And she never will. Because she believes in stabbing, shooting and bombing Jews. Her words: “Every type of resistance.” I believe she means it.

And what is “this occupation” to which Tamimi refers? Again, she made it very clear to the France24 interviewer. He asked her how she can justify slapping an Israeli soldier. She replied: “These soldiers are occupying my country—Jaffa, Haifa, Akko.”

(full article online)

I believe this Palestinian teenager


----------



## Sixties Fan

That synopsis does not inform BBC audiences that the pre-planned violence it euphemistically describes as “protests” has increased (rather than “resumed”) because in early September Hamas decided to up the pace of rioting along the border fence with a “nighttime deployment unit“. Neither are BBC audiences informed of the tensions between Hamas and the Palestinian Authoritywhich have to date thwarted a cease-fire agreement.

Viewers of the filmed report saw context-free statements from one female interviewee – who was only identified late in the report using the epithet ‘Um Mustafa’ and is apparently the same person who appeared in a radio report by Yolande Knell in August – alongside equally uninformative BBC commentary.
-------

As we see, viewers of this report get an entirely context-free portrayal of water, power and medicines shortages in the Gaza Strip. They are not informed that all three of those issues are linked to the infighting between the terror organisation Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.

(full article online)

Banal BBC News report from the Gaza Strip fails to inform


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Second Intifada was a multiyear terror spree that resulted in the deaths of thousands of Israelis and Palestinians.

It killed the Oslo peace process.

It convinced countless leftist Israelis that there is no actual partner for peace on the Palestinian side.

And Fatah, the party headed by Mahmoud Abbas, is celebrating the beginning of the terror spree that began 19 years ago.


(full article online)

Fatah celebrates anniversary of beginning of Second Intifada ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

But when Jordan controlled the West Bank, it was against any sort of Palestinian Arab state on the territory it claimed. Even the Palestinian Arabs didn't talk at all about creating a state in the territories - only in Israel.

And when Palestinians tried to turn Jordan into a Palestinian state in 1970, they were brutally attacked and their leaders forced out. Thousands were killed in the fighting.

It is always amusing to see how Jordan now is talking about how the UN wanted a Palestinian Arab state in 1947 and not a single Arab nation, including Transjordan at the time, supported the idea.

The desire for a Palestinian state is directly proportional to how much it will negatively affect Israel. Otherwise, no Arab is interested in such a state at all.

(full article online)

It's always funny when Jordan says there should be a Palestinian state ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian teenager jailed for assaulting an Israeli soldier, says she supports violence against Jews and seeks the destruction of Israel.
> 
> And I believe that groups such as J Street, which have defended Tamimi and claimed that she is nonviolently resisting “the Israeli occupation of the West Bank,” owe the Jewish community an apology for refusing to believe her.
> ------
> She specifically refused to say that she supports “peaceful” actions. She specifically said she supports assaulting Israeli soldiers and “throwing stones”—meaning, trying to stone Jews to death. She also specifically said that she “respects every type of resistance”—obviously including the other kinds of “resistance” in which Palestinians engage: knives, guns, bombs.
> 
> Tamimi has never explicitly condemned stabbing, shooting or bombing Jews. And she never will. Because she believes in stabbing, shooting and bombing Jews. Her words: “Every type of resistance.” I believe she means it.
> 
> And what is “this occupation” to which Tamimi refers? Again, she made it very clear to the France24 interviewer. He asked her how she can justify slapping an Israeli soldier. She replied: “These soldiers are occupying my country—Jaffa, Haifa, Akko.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> I believe this Palestinian teenager





Sixties Fan said:


> But when Jordan controlled the West Bank, it was against any sort of Palestinian Arab state on the territory it claimed. Even the Palestinian Arabs didn't talk at all about creating a state in the territories - only in Israel.
> 
> And when Palestinians tried to turn Jordan into a Palestinian state in 1970, they were brutally attacked and their leaders forced out. Thousands were killed in the fighting.
> 
> It is always amusing to see how Jordan now is talking about how the UN wanted a Palestinian Arab state in 1947 and not a single Arab nation, including Transjordan at the time, supported the idea.
> 
> The desire for a Palestinian state is directly proportional to how much it will negatively affect Israel. Otherwise, no Arab is interested in such a state at all.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> It's always funny when Jordan says there should be a Palestinian state ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> The Second Intifada was a multiyear terror spree that resulted in the deaths of thousands of Israelis and Palestinians.
> 
> It killed the Oslo peace process.
> 
> It convinced countless leftist Israelis that there is no actual partner for peace on the Palestinian side.
> 
> And Fatah, the party headed by Mahmoud Abbas, is celebrating the beginning of the terror spree that began 19 years ago.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah celebrates anniversary of beginning of Second Intifada ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



The second Int


Sixties Fan said:


> The Second Intifada was a multiyear terror spree that resulted in the deaths of thousands of Israelis and Palestinians.
> 
> It killed the Oslo peace process.
> 
> It convinced countless leftist Israelis that there is no actual partner for peace on the Palestinian side.
> 
> And Fatah, the party headed by Mahmoud Abbas, is celebrating the beginning of the terror spree that began 19 years ago.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah celebrates anniversary of beginning of Second Intifada ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



The Palestinianss initiated the Second Intifada after Sharon visited the Temple Mount; A Holy Site for ALL Religions . Just more proof they are Uncivilized Savages


----------



## Sixties Fan

An initial investigation into Saturday night’s incident in the Palestinian Arab village of Nahalin, near Bethlehem, in which an IDF soldier was lightly injured, has found that the incident occurred when IDF soldiers entered a home in the village in order to pick up medication for a suspect they had arrested.

(full article online)

IDF soldiers attacked while taking medication for detainee


----------



## Sixties Fan

Latest Blood Libel: Evidence? They’ve Got Nada Edition


----------



## Sixties Fan

International UNRWA officials in Gaza had to run away to safety in Israel.   They received death threats from their fellow local Gaza UNRWA employees – due to cutbacks – and found themselves in mortal danger.  This is the body that is in charge of handing out hundreds of millions of dollars every year to the eternal “Palestinian” refugees.


The Arab media reported extensively about this incident.  On the other hand, the UNRWA has yet to officially announce that their employees escaped to Israel to save their lives. Forget about issuing a thank you to Israel for helping save their employees.

(full article and video online)

United Nations Officials Escape from Gaza into Israel Following Death Threats


----------



## Sixties Fan

Puncturing the Palestinian Refugee Myth | Abu Yehuda


----------



## Sixties Fan

Salaries rewarding terrorists won't be stopped, 
says Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners


Abbas on terrorists: "Stars in the sky of the Palestinian people"

Abbas: "Even if we have only a penny left it will only be spent on the families of the Martyrs and the prisoners, and only afterwards will it be spent on the rest of the people"
(full article online)

Salaries rewarding terrorists won’t be stopped, says Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Salaries rewarding terrorists won't be stopped,
> says Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners
> 
> 
> Abbas on terrorists: "Stars in the sky of the Palestinian people"
> 
> Abbas: "Even if we have only a penny left it will only be spent on the families of the Martyrs and the prisoners, and only afterwards will it be spent on the rest of the people"
> (full article online)
> 
> Salaries rewarding terrorists won’t be stopped, says Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners - PMW Bulletins


I bet he didn't say that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Salaries rewarding terrorists won't be stopped,
> says Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners
> 
> 
> Abbas on terrorists: "Stars in the sky of the Palestinian people"
> 
> Abbas: "Even if we have only a penny left it will only be spent on the families of the Martyrs and the prisoners, and only afterwards will it be spent on the rest of the people"
> (full article online)
> 
> Salaries rewarding terrorists won’t be stopped, says Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> I bet he didn't say that.
Click to expand...

You say that because you were there, weren't you?

And you do know Arabic, do you not?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: On the cluelessness of If Not Now


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians’ Three No’s: What They Mean


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinians’ Three No’s: What They Mean


So much name calling. Must be a propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians’ Three No’s: What They Mean
> 
> 
> 
> So much name calling. Must be a propaganda site.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Plans to "Punish" the United States


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/blonde-washing-terrorism/


----------



## Sixties Fan

The book also insists “the enemies of Islam never stop at any time and place to use all means and methods to fight Islam and the Muslims.” 

Hmmmmm. “fight Islam and the Muslims” is a very curious phrase. I mean, you could’ve used “_defend _against,” or “get blown up _by_Islamists” or a number of other expressions, but instead you pick something that makes Israel seem like the aggressor. And don’t worry, you can get your dosage of Palestinian agitprop in other grades, as well.

Twelfth grade textbooks call the whole group of Jews “sinful and liars” and refer to parts of Israel as part of that mythical nation Palestine. Negev Plateau is apparently “in southern Palestine” and Nazareth is in the “Palestinian North.” One map labels Israel “Palestine after the 1948 War” and then breaks the territory down into “Arab lands” and “lands seized by the Jews after the war.” One 9th grade social studies textbook argues that “the solution to the problem of overcrowding in the Gaza Strip lies primarily in the return of the displaced population to their homes” in Israel.

I don’t know about you, but the historians I typically read in school would typically just give me the facts and then let _me _use those to make my own arguments and draw my own conclusions. But, then again, I didn’t have the luxury of going to a Palestinian school.

(full article online)

Palestinian Schoolbooks: ‘Tell A Story Of A Martyr,’ Insult Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

The relief agency does less with more than other UN refugee programs, and has good reason to undermine its own mission

(full article online)

Why didn’t we stop funding UNRWA years ago?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian sources say Ramallah warned it would boycott Israeli fuel, told fuel workers in Strip not to show up to work, as Abbas tightens stranglehold on the enclave

(full article online)

PA prevents Gaza from receiving Qatari fuel aid, increasing danger of violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorist's children's book to launch in Israeli-Arab town


----------



## Sixties Fan

Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem



Yes.  This.  

This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, Islamic Jihad held a parade in Gaza City.

Thousands of Gazans came to participate and cheer them on, bringing their children.

We don't see too many articles about these Palestinians. Because talking about them does not further the narrative that the media wants people to think about Gazans.

Terror isn't tolerated by Palestinians. It is celebrated. And it is taught to their kids.






(full article online)

Just another terror parade in Gaza City encouraging kids to become martyrs ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

An AFP article on Gaza terrorists who are sending incendiary balloons as well as sound bombs to Israel includes this photo:





Aw, isn't that sweet?

(full article online)

Gaza terrorists use "I ❤ You" balloons ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

It seems like, at the same time that gang that formed "_The Project for the New American Century_" rose to power, the latent concept for Nation Building --- which had been around since the era of the "Marshall Plan" --- became even more prominent.  Except that we didn't have a George C Marshall _(Former General of the Army and Secretary of State)_ to implement it.

_Great Leaders like George C Marshal, Winston Churchill, Franklin D Roosevelt, _
_only come around so often and rise to the need when the Sun and the Moon and _
_the Stars are in the proper alignment._​


Sixties Fan said:


> The relief agency does less with more than other UN refugee programs, and has good reason to undermine its own mission
> 
> Why didn’t we stop funding UNRWA years ago?


*(POLITICAL TRIVIA)
*
•  1 January 1942  History  • 
The name *"United Nations"*, coined by United States President _*Franklin D. Roosevelt*_ was first used in the Declaration by United Nations of 1 January 1942, released by _*Rosevelt and Winston Churchill*_, during the Second World War, when representatives of 26 nations pledged their Governments to continue fighting together against the Axis Powers.
*
(COMMENT)*

Oddly enough, it was the US, more often than not, finds itself standing alone in the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

In interview with Israeli paper, Hamas chief defends group’s terror tactics


----------



## Sixties Fan

Agricultural terror: Arabs burn tens of thousands of live chickens


----------



## Mindful

What was that about genocide?


The answer is in the numbers:

Germany committed genocide against the Jews from 1933–1945

Jewish population worldwide in 1933: 19 million

Jewish population worldwide in 1945: 13.2 million

Jewish population worldwide in 2017: 13.2 million

_over 70 years later we are still barely recovering._

Turkey committed genocide against the Armenian population throughout the 1920s:

Armenian population in the Ottoman Empire 1915: 1.5 million

Armenian population in Turkey 1935: 77,000

Armenian population in Turkey 2017: 61,000

That is the rawest and most evil form of genocide.

Since the establishment of Israel, Palestinians have waged war against us countless times:

Palestinian population 1947: 600,000

Palestinian population 1949 (after the State of Israel was established): 600,000

Palestinian population 2017: 3.5 million

Nations that suffer genocide see a tragic and steep drop in their population. Since 1967 the Palestinians have seen their income levels increase by 500%. Their life expectancy has increased by 2_0 years._ Their infant mortality rate has dropped by 80%.

Israeli rule has brought them modernization and prosperity. It may not be reported in the media, but it is reported in the numbers.


https://www.quora.com/Has-Israel-co...rding-to-the-definition-of-genocide-by-the-UN


----------



## Hollie

Listen up, infidels. In today’s episode of “_Mahmoud says_...”, we’re treated to a sense of that enlightenment which has escaped the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.

*Surah 4:34*
*Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. (Dawood)*



Mahmoud Al-Habbash, an advisor to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, was interviewed on Palestine TV on September 8, 2018. Al-Habbash said that in some cases, a woman's legal testimony might not be enough because her "mental nature cannot yield an authentic testimony." He said that men are naturally inclined to intervene in crimes such as murder, but that women are inclined to cover their eyes to avoid seeing the terrible sight. Al-Habbash also said that men's psychological and physical nature inclines them to take a "long hard look and check things out" when witnessing acts of fornication, while women are likely to avert their gaze due to their modesty and chastity.


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## Sixties Fan

Livid over Qatari aid to Gaza, Abbas said planning to cut PA’s funding to Strip


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## Sixties Fan

[ Jews go home ]

Arab MK Claims Ari Fuld Executed Palestinian Terrorist; Likud MK: ‘She Called Fuld a Murderer’


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## Sixties Fan

Stoning Attack on Israeli Bus in Judea


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## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
Click to expand...

What dignity will Israel give them?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?
Click to expand...

No, didn’t you read what I wrote?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, didn’t you read what I wrote?
Click to expand...

Let me make myself clear then.

Israel IS NOT responsible for those who are under the PA.

Arabs who are residents or citizens of Israel are something else.

They are residents or citizens of Israel, they should be given an Israeli education, and they will get help as any other citizen and resident does.  But for some reason, Israel used to allow the Arab schools in Jerusalem to be given the same education, anti Israel, all others are given in the PA and in Gaza.


We do not really have to worry about the US taking any aid from the Palestinians, since Qatar, Germany and many others are making up for it.

How long should the Arab Palestinians continue to be the needy people they have managed to con all people about?

Time the Billions of dollars given to the leaders up to now, to be used for the aid, infrastructure, etc they were designed to be used for, rather than sitting at some Swiss bank or any other place waiting for the leaders next generations to use them for planes, yatchs, etc, etc


Shall we give them a push?


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, didn’t you read what I wrote?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make myself clear then.
> 
> Israel IS NOT responsible for those who are under the PA.
> 
> Arabs who are residents or citizens of Israel are something else.
> 
> They are residents or citizens of Israel, they should be given an Israeli education, and they will get help as any other citizen and resident does.  But for some reason, Israel used to allow the Arab schools in Jerusalem to be given the same education, anti Israel, all others are given in the PA and in Gaza.
> 
> 
> We do not really have to worry about the US taking any aid from the Palestinians, since Qatar, Germany and many others are making up for it.
> 
> How long should the Arab Palestinians continue to be the needy people they have managed to con all people about?
> 
> Time the Billions of dollars given to the leaders up to now, to be used for the aid, infrastructure, etc they were designed to be used for, rather than sitting at some Swiss bank or any other place waiting for the leaders next generations to use them for planes, yatchs, etc, etc
> 
> 
> Shall we give them a push?
Click to expand...

I was asking a specific question related to a specific claim.  I don’t see how all that is relevant since it Susha who made the statement, and I HER take on it, why she Israel would give them dignity.

But speaking of schools...shouldn’t Israeli schools likewise clean up THEIR textbooks?

Israeli and Palestinian textbooks erase the other side, report finds

How Do Israeli And Palestinian Textbooks Treat The Other Side?

Academic claims Israeli school textbooks contain bias


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
Click to expand...


The dignity of not being refugees. Of being treated as residents and hopefully eventually citizens of Israel with all of the full equality that comes with it. 

That is obvious.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> 
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, didn’t you read what I wrote?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make myself clear then.
> 
> Israel IS NOT responsible for those who are under the PA.
> 
> Arabs who are residents or citizens of Israel are something else.
> 
> They are residents or citizens of Israel, they should be given an Israeli education, and they will get help as any other citizen and resident does.  But for some reason, Israel used to allow the Arab schools in Jerusalem to be given the same education, anti Israel, all others are given in the PA and in Gaza.
> 
> 
> We do not really have to worry about the US taking any aid from the Palestinians, since Qatar, Germany and many others are making up for it.
> 
> How long should the Arab Palestinians continue to be the needy people they have managed to con all people about?
> 
> Time the Billions of dollars given to the leaders up to now, to be used for the aid, infrastructure, etc they were designed to be used for, rather than sitting at some Swiss bank or any other place waiting for the leaders next generations to use them for planes, yatchs, etc, etc
> 
> 
> Shall we give them a push?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was asking a specific question related to a specific claim.  I don’t see how all that is relevant since it Susha who made the statement, and I HER take on it, why she Israel would give them dignity.
> 
> But speaking of schools...shouldn’t Israeli schools likewise clean up THEIR textbooks?
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian textbooks erase the other side, report finds
> 
> How Do Israeli And Palestinian Textbooks Treat The Other Side?
> 
> Academic claims Israeli school textbooks contain bias
Click to expand...


That last source is horribly biased and doesn't at all help your case, imo.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, didn’t you read what I wrote?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make myself clear then.
> 
> Israel IS NOT responsible for those who are under the PA.
> 
> Arabs who are residents or citizens of Israel are something else.
> 
> They are residents or citizens of Israel, they should be given an Israeli education, and they will get help as any other citizen and resident does.  But for some reason, Israel used to allow the Arab schools in Jerusalem to be given the same education, anti Israel, all others are given in the PA and in Gaza.
> 
> 
> We do not really have to worry about the US taking any aid from the Palestinians, since Qatar, Germany and many others are making up for it.
> 
> How long should the Arab Palestinians continue to be the needy people they have managed to con all people about?
> 
> Time the Billions of dollars given to the leaders up to now, to be used for the aid, infrastructure, etc they were designed to be used for, rather than sitting at some Swiss bank or any other place waiting for the leaders next generations to use them for planes, yatchs, etc, etc
> 
> 
> Shall we give them a push?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was asking a specific question related to a specific claim.  I don’t see how all that is relevant since it Susha who made the statement, and I HER take on it, why she Israel would give them dignity.
> 
> But speaking of schools...shouldn’t Israeli schools likewise clean up THEIR textbooks?
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian textbooks erase the other side, report finds
> 
> How Do Israeli And Palestinian Textbooks Treat The Other Side?
> 
> Academic claims Israeli school textbooks contain bias
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That last source is horribly biased and doesn't at all help your case, imo.
Click to expand...

It does have a bias but the source is an Israeli.  What about the other two sources?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The dignity of not being refugees. Of being treated as residents and hopefully eventually citizens of Israel with all of the full equality that comes with it.
> 
> That is obvious.
Click to expand...


What makes you think Israel would give them that?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that only the Palestinian Arabs should remain refugees for all times, or until peace happens, or should UNWRA extend its services to ALL refugees?
> 
> 
> 
> No, didn’t you read what I wrote?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me make myself clear then.
> 
> Israel IS NOT responsible for those who are under the PA.
> 
> Arabs who are residents or citizens of Israel are something else.
> 
> They are residents or citizens of Israel, they should be given an Israeli education, and they will get help as any other citizen and resident does.  But for some reason, Israel used to allow the Arab schools in Jerusalem to be given the same education, anti Israel, all others are given in the PA and in Gaza.
> 
> 
> We do not really have to worry about the US taking any aid from the Palestinians, since Qatar, Germany and many others are making up for it.
> 
> How long should the Arab Palestinians continue to be the needy people they have managed to con all people about?
> 
> Time the Billions of dollars given to the leaders up to now, to be used for the aid, infrastructure, etc they were designed to be used for, rather than sitting at some Swiss bank or any other place waiting for the leaders next generations to use them for planes, yatchs, etc, etc
> 
> 
> Shall we give them a push?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was asking a specific question related to a specific claim.  I don’t see how all that is relevant since it Susha who made the statement, and I HER take on it, why she Israel would give them dignity.
> 
> But speaking of schools...shouldn’t Israeli schools likewise clean up THEIR textbooks?
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian textbooks erase the other side, report finds
> 
> How Do Israeli And Palestinian Textbooks Treat The Other Side?
> 
> Academic claims Israeli school textbooks contain bias
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That last source is horribly biased and doesn't at all help your case, imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does have a bias but the source is an Israeli.  What about the other two sources?
Click to expand...


The bias is enormous. Don't care who the author is with that kind of blatant bias. 

The other two sources are long on opinions and short on facts.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The dignity of not being refugees. Of being treated as residents and hopefully eventually citizens of Israel with all of the full equality that comes with it.
> 
> That is obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think Israel would give them that?
Click to expand...


The million Arab Israeli citizens who have that.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Nir Barkat's plan to remove UNRWA from Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The dignity of not being refugees. Of being treated as residents and hopefully eventually citizens of Israel with all of the full equality that comes with it.
> 
> That is obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think Israel would give them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The million Arab Israeli citizens who have that.
Click to expand...


I think you are overly optimistic.  For one, Israel has been extremely cognizant of demographics...from adjusting Jerusalem’s borders to strictly controlling the ability of non-Jews to become citizens, etc.

Netanyahu backs expanding Jerusalem’s jurisdiction to include West Bank settlements


Israel almost entirely halts citizenship approvals for East Jerusalemites


----------



## Sixties Fan

@UNRWA keeps telling the world how necessary it is to provide services for Palestinian "refugees." But when a state says it will do all of those services - better - allowing UNRWA to use its money in other ways, it does not cooperate. On the contrary, UNRWA claims that its services of providing unlicensed medical and educational facilities are "important" and must remain even when they are completely redundant.

This episode reveals that UNRWA doesn't exist to help Palestinians. On the contrary, UNRWA wants as many Palestinians as possible to use it in order to maintain its own existence.

UNRWA's unique definition of "refugee" for Palestinians is self-serving. It is meant to ensure that it stays in existence forever.

What would happen if Jordan suddenly said that it is willing to take responsibility for its own citizens of Palestinian origin? Would UNRWA be happy or upset? This story tells you the answer. The Arab world, UNRWA and the Palestinians all have a vested interest in never solving the "refugee" problem - and in claiming that it is all Israel's fault.

(full article online)

Palestinians don't need @UNRWA. @UNRWA needs Palestinians. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*CB-D*_: Many of the specifics about the Trump administration policy of defunding UNRWA are unclear. For example, which institutions can replace UNRWA in the different areas in which it operates? You address this question and also examine how UNRWA’s calculation of refugee numbers should be reassessed. Can you explain your thinking on UNWRA?_

*EW*: Rather than the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) alleviating a difficult situation, it has been one of its main creators and radicalising forces. Through its refugee camps, UNRWA became the incubator that nurtured and developed an angry, victimised, belligerent Palestinian nationalism, one trapped in its own millenarian visions of returning to a country where the Arabs are not a majority and without recognising the co-equal right of the majority group in that country to a state of its own. For example, the terrorists who carried out the Munich massacre and airplane hijackings were all children of UNRWA.

UNRWA operates in the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, administering a total of 5.3 million refugees, yet almost none would be considered refugees by international standards. For example, 2.2 million UNRWA ‘refugees’, 40 per cent of the total, are Jordanian citizens. They vote and hold significant positions of power in Jordan. Citizens are not considered refugees in any other situation. In addition, 82 per cent don’t even live in camps throughout Jordan. Many of them are middle class professionals and wealthy business people. There is no connection between the broad image associated with the word ‘refugee’ and who they actually are.

Another 40 per cent, approximately 2.1 million people, live in the West Bank and Gaza. They are not refugees either. Certainly, by their own accounting they live in the territory of Palestine. UNRWA counts another million refugees in Syria and Lebanon, but we know from recent official census that the numbers are at least four times inflated because most long ago left. For example, the father of supermodels Gigi and Bella Hadid, a multi-millionaire living in LA is still on UNRWA’s books in Syria as a refugee from Palestine. This means that already 95 per cent of those registered by UNRWA as ‘refugees’ would not be considered refugees by international standards and in any other conflict. But even among the 250,000 who actually still reside in Syria and Lebanon, only the original people who fled war, crossed a border to another country, and did not receive citizenship, would be considered refugees, and had they had been treated like other refugees in the world they would have long ago been resettled and taken off the books.

(full article online)

Why UNRWA is an obstacle to two states for two peoples: an interview with Einat Wilf


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> This is ensuring the dignity of people so they are not viewed as perpetual refugees.  If the Arab Palestinians won't step up and do it -- Israel will.  And should.
> 
> 
> 
> What dignity will Israel give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The dignity of not being refugees. Of being treated as residents and hopefully eventually citizens of Israel with all of the full equality that comes with it.
> 
> That is obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think Israel would give them that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The million Arab Israeli citizens who have that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you are overly optimistic.  For one, Israel has been extremely cognizant of demographics...from adjusting Jerusalem’s borders to strictly controlling the ability of non-Jews to become citizens, etc.
> 
> Netanyahu backs expanding Jerusalem’s jurisdiction to include West Bank settlements
> 
> 
> Israel almost entirely halts citizenship approvals for East Jerusalemites
Click to expand...


I don't understand you.  Israel is stepping up.  She is removing Arabs from their refugee status and agreeing to pay for all of the infrastructure needed to support them.  So they don't have to receive aide.  Why is this a problem for you?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The number of Palestinian Arabs who work in "settlements" has increased over the years, according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics some 20,000 Palestinians now work in the "settlements" (despite threats to such people by the PA years ago) and over 105,000 more work for Israelis within the Green Line.

The number of Arab employees working for Israeli employers has been steadily increasing while the number of workers for Arab employees has been going down and the unemployment rate increasing.

The wage gap between Arab workers for Israelis compared to working in the West Bank for other Arabs has dramatically increased. The daily wage rate was 107.9 shekels in the West Bank and 62.6 shekels in the Gaza Strip in the second quarter of 2018 - but those working in Israel and the settlements make a daily average wage of 247.9 shekels.

Some 13.5% of all Palestinian workers now work for Israelis. If you include how much they make, that means that over 30% of all Palestinian incomes come from Israeli employers.

Given this information of how much better off Palestinians are economically when there is less terror and more opportunities to work in Israel, one would think that ordinary Palestinian Arabs would be incensed at a terror attack that could jeopardize such a huge portion of their economy.

I have yet to see any such reaction.

Hamas-oriented sites are filled with people are praising Allah for the attack, and Fatah is bragging that this is proof that settlements will never be secure from terrorism.

(full article online)

Terror murder of two Israelis by Arab coworker highlights how many Arabs work in "settlements" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Murdering A Jew – It Takes A Village


----------



## Sixties Fan

'This is not a 'terror attack' - it's an execution'


----------



## Sixties Fan

‘Could it be that the EU agrees with the Palestinian terrorist’s motivations just not his methods?’ suggests Michael Oren after Palestinian fatally shoots two Israelis

(full article online)

Deputy minister lashes EU over response to West Bank terror attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas terror movement has issued a statement welcoming the murder of two Israeli civilians and the wounding of a third in the Barkan industrial zone by a Palestinian terrorist living in the Samarian village of Shuweika, calling it an "heroic act" and a "natural reaction" to what it calls Israel's "crimes" against the "Palestinian people."

Following a listing of claims against Israel, the statement said that the so-called natural action heralding that the "Palestinian explosion is approaching the occupier's face."

Hamas: Palestinian explosion nearing - Israel National News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Education Minister Naftali Bennett stated: “While Israel endures terrible sadness, Hamas is handing out candies and Abbas is looking after salaries. We must stop this celebration. The State of Israel is obliged to ensure the security of its citizens. We must restore the deterrence.”




















Ofir Gendelman on Twitter

(full article online)

Terror attack celebrated in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Difference between this Christian turned Muslim and Palestinian Muslims?   None.  Zero.  Non Existent .  ]

The most revealing conversation with a Jihadi


----------



## Sixties Fan

There’s a parallel between what a glamour magazine does openly and what the Tamimi family is doing more insidiously. Both are constructing an unrealistic fantasy. The difference is that magazines like Vogue openly use showmanship because that’s what readers are looking for. But the Tamimi family, in a sense, creates its own fantasy in order to mislead audiences for political advantage. 

What you don’t know from that single photo is that Tamimi has called for stabbings and suicide bombings against Israelis, that not all Arabs view her as a Palestinian icon, or that her recent European tour is really blondwashing terror.





It’s irritating enough that Vogue saw fit to publish Tamimi’s missive. At the end of her 987-word letter, she writes:

People ask me what life was like in prison, but I wish I didn’t have to talk about it. *I just want to forget*.

No she doesn’t. Prison is Tamimi’s stepping stone to all the trappings that come with being an icon: meeting world leaders, photo-ops with Real Madrid, billboards in London, etc. She has indicated she wants to study law and pursue political activism, so Tamimi’s fame will open doors for her.

Prison is Tamimi’s meal ticket.

But none of Vogue’s photographers, makeup artists, hair stylists and show-biz production can whitewash who Ahed Tamimi really is — an opportunistic and attention-grabbing young woman who isn’t really interested in peace.

(full article online)

Vogue Can't Glamourize Terror | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad showcases large female terrorist contingent 
Images released by Gaza terrorist group show large group of women taking part in military drills aimed at attacking Israeli soldiers and civilians • They are shown shooting real weapons while surrounded by fellow terrorists in Israeli military uniforms. 


Female Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists march in Gaza 





(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/10/07/islamic-jihad-showcases-large-female-terrorist-contingent/


----------



## Sixties Fan

The value of the Sinwar interview is that it demonstrates in detail why Hamas has not been — and will never be — a party to any credible peace process between the Palestinians and Israel. Once the reader sees past Sinwar’s melodramatic assertion at the beginning that “now, not tomorrow, right now” there exists an opportunity to introduce what he calls “security and stability,” it becomes very clear that this involves not a meaningful overture to Israel, but a restatement of fundamental Hamas doctrine.

What, for example, does Sinwar think about the prospect of a renewed conflict with Israel? “We are a people under occupation and are being attacked daily,” he replied. Another war, he continued, was not in the interest of the Palestinians because they would be confronting a “nuclear power.” But, he went on, even if Hamas “cannot win, Netanyahu’s victory will be worse than defeat because it will be the fourth war [fought by Israel in Gaza since 2008] … The war will not bring them anything.”

For the last 10 years, Hamas has imposed its iron-fisted rule upon Gaza with three key assumptions: that Israel and Egypt will maintain their control of Gaza’s borders, that heavy fighting will periodically erupt with Israeli forces, and that Israel will not invade Gaza and overthrow the Hamas regime. That continuity enables Hamas leaders to retain political and security control over the Gaza Strip. In propaganda terms, as Sinwar demonstrated in his interview, the terrorist organization then emphasizes its shared goal with the other Palestinian factions in securing a state within the 1967 borders — with eastern Jerusalem as its capital, but without recognizing Israel and without renouncing violence. And then, every so often in the media, a report appears suggesting that Hamas might be willing to do one or both of those things, but it never does.

The fact that the status quo suits Sinwar — given the military vulnerabilities of Hamas and his unresolved conflict with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in Ramallah — is nothing new; it’s what his predecessors, who expelled Fatah and the PA in the ugly civil war of 2007, also favored. Simply put, Gaza’s situation has not really changed in that time, and neither has the ideology of its Islamist rulers.

(full article online)

Yahya Sinwar Explains How Hamas Hasn’t Changed


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> There’s a parallel between what a glamour magazine does openly and what the Tamimi family is doing more insidiously. Both are constructing an unrealistic fantasy. The difference is that magazines like Vogue openly use showmanship because that’s what readers are looking for. But the Tamimi family, in a sense, creates its own fantasy in order to mislead audiences for political advantage.
> 
> What you don’t know from that single photo is that Tamimi has called for stabbings and suicide bombings against Israelis, that not all Arabs view her as a Palestinian icon, or that her recent European tour is really blondwashing terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s irritating enough that Vogue saw fit to publish Tamimi’s missive. At the end of her 987-word letter, she writes:
> 
> People ask me what life was like in prison, but I wish I didn’t have to talk about it. *I just want to forget*.
> 
> No she doesn’t. Prison is Tamimi’s stepping stone to all the trappings that come with being an icon: meeting world leaders, photo-ops with Real Madrid, billboards in London, etc. She has indicated she wants to study law and pursue political activism, so Tamimi’s fame will open doors for her.
> 
> Prison is Tamimi’s meal ticket.
> 
> But none of Vogue’s photographers, makeup artists, hair stylists and show-biz production can whitewash who Ahed Tamimi really is — an opportunistic and attention-grabbing young woman who isn’t really interested in peace.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Vogue Can't Glamourize Terror | HonestReporting



From Ahed's letter in Vogue:

“If there was no occupation and Palestine was a normal country, I would move to Acre and live by the sea and go swimming. ..


Wait, what?!  She wants to move to Acre?  I thought the whole POINT was for her family to grow olive trees in their own village. Isn't that what they have been fighting for? Without those pesky, nasty Jews around.  And she wants to move to a mixed town?  Why doesn't she just give up the fight and all the bullshit and just work to become Israeli, then?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s a parallel between what a glamour magazine does openly and what the Tamimi family is doing more insidiously. Both are constructing an unrealistic fantasy. The difference is that magazines like Vogue openly use showmanship because that’s what readers are looking for. But the Tamimi family, in a sense, creates its own fantasy in order to mislead audiences for political advantage.
> 
> What you don’t know from that single photo is that Tamimi has called for stabbings and suicide bombings against Israelis, that not all Arabs view her as a Palestinian icon, or that her recent European tour is really blondwashing terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s irritating enough that Vogue saw fit to publish Tamimi’s missive. At the end of her 987-word letter, she writes:
> 
> People ask me what life was like in prison, but I wish I didn’t have to talk about it. *I just want to forget*.
> 
> No she doesn’t. Prison is Tamimi’s stepping stone to all the trappings that come with being an icon: meeting world leaders, photo-ops with Real Madrid, billboards in London, etc. She has indicated she wants to study law and pursue political activism, so Tamimi’s fame will open doors for her.
> 
> Prison is Tamimi’s meal ticket.
> 
> But none of Vogue’s photographers, makeup artists, hair stylists and show-biz production can whitewash who Ahed Tamimi really is — an opportunistic and attention-grabbing young woman who isn’t really interested in peace.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Vogue Can't Glamourize Terror | HonestReporting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Ahed's letter in Vogue:
> 
> “If there was no occupation and Palestine was a normal country, I would move to Acre and live by the sea and go swimming. ..
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  She wants to move to Acre?  I thought the whole POINT was for her family to grow olive trees in their own village. Isn't that what they have been fighting for? Without those pesky, nasty Jews around.  And she wants to move to a mixed town?  Why doesn't she just give up the fight and all the bullshit and just work to become Israeli, then?
Click to expand...

Because, like too many other "Palestinians" she is devoid of actual information about what is what, and who is who.

All of Israel is actually "Palestine", as the map Abbas holds demands.  Therefore, Acre is occupied, and if it were not......she would move there.

Has she ever been there?


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The fact that the status quo suits Sinwar



The status quo suits everyone involved at the moment. It won't shift until someone forces a shift.  And neither Hamas, nor Fatah nor Israel will be the one to shift it.  But there are some other players which might force it.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s a parallel between what a glamour magazine does openly and what the Tamimi family is doing more insidiously. Both are constructing an unrealistic fantasy. The difference is that magazines like Vogue openly use showmanship because that’s what readers are looking for. But the Tamimi family, in a sense, creates its own fantasy in order to mislead audiences for political advantage.
> 
> What you don’t know from that single photo is that Tamimi has called for stabbings and suicide bombings against Israelis, that not all Arabs view her as a Palestinian icon, or that her recent European tour is really blondwashing terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s irritating enough that Vogue saw fit to publish Tamimi’s missive. At the end of her 987-word letter, she writes:
> 
> People ask me what life was like in prison, but I wish I didn’t have to talk about it. *I just want to forget*.
> 
> No she doesn’t. Prison is Tamimi’s stepping stone to all the trappings that come with being an icon: meeting world leaders, photo-ops with Real Madrid, billboards in London, etc. She has indicated she wants to study law and pursue political activism, so Tamimi’s fame will open doors for her.
> 
> Prison is Tamimi’s meal ticket.
> 
> But none of Vogue’s photographers, makeup artists, hair stylists and show-biz production can whitewash who Ahed Tamimi really is — an opportunistic and attention-grabbing young woman who isn’t really interested in peace.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Vogue Can't Glamourize Terror | HonestReporting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Ahed's letter in Vogue:
> 
> “If there was no occupation and Palestine was a normal country, I would move to Acre and live by the sea and go swimming. ..
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  She wants to move to Acre?  I thought the whole POINT was for her family to grow olive trees in their own village. Isn't that what they have been fighting for? Without those pesky, nasty Jews around.  And she wants to move to a mixed town?  Why doesn't she just give up the fight and all the bullshit and just work to become Israeli, then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because, like too many other "Palestinians" she is devoid of actual information about what is what, and who is who.
> 
> All of Israel is actually "Palestine", as the map Abbas holds demands.  Therefore, Acre is occupied, and if it were not......she would move there.
> 
> Has she ever been there?
Click to expand...



Apparently she has.  Dad took her there illegally after they applied for and obtained a permit to visit Jerusalem.  

The point is not to live in a mixed society of Jews and Arabs with freedom and equality -- she could have that now in Nabi Saleh or in Acre.  The point is to put an end to "Jew rule".


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The European Union insists on supporting such initiatives in East Jerusalem to strengthen the steadfastness of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and to preserve the Palestinian character of the city. Furthermore, through this initiative, the European Union supports the residents of East Jerusalem in expressing their right to clean streets and green areas."
-------------
Can you imagine a similar EU initiative in a poor Haredi section of Jerusalem? For that matter, could you imagine a Jewish section of Jerusalem where schoolteachers, of all people, simply throw garbage on the streets?

Even if the Jerusalem municipality doesn't provide adequate sanitation services for parts of the city, the question must be asked:

If Palestinians love Jerusalem so much and regard it as their capital and as the third holiest city in Islam - why do they allow it to become a garbage dump to begin with? Why do they need Christian Europeans to help them clean up where they live?

Where is their own sense of pride of living in Jerusalem?

The last paragraph is quite accurate. The EU allocated €14.9 million this year for activities in East Jerusalem with a few goals in mind, the first of which is "to preserve the Palestinian character of the city."  But again, if Arabs loved the city as much as they tell the world they do, then where are the Arab initiatives to do the same thing? I've seen only rare examples - and the most prominent Palestinian I ever saw who tirelessly tried to improve Jerusalem was murdered for his efforts and his death ignored by the Palestinian media and government.

But this isn't the PLO or a Palestinian NGO or the Arab League or Saudi Arabia putting money into cleaning up Jerusalem. It is the EU. And this shows that Arabs and Muslims, despite their rhetoric, don't care about Jerusalem - except to take it away from non-Muslims.

Which has been the Muslim attitude towards Jerusalem since the dawn of Islam.

(full article online)

EU initiative to get Palestinians to clean up their Jerusalem neighborhoods. Why do they need Europeans to help do that? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"There are many international and human rights organizations in the West that can play the role of mediator to break the barrier of suspicion and enter into a line of communication with the Jews of the world," Yousef writes.

Hamas literally plans to use "human rights groups" to help destroy Israel. After all, they are already so antagonistic towards the Jewish state while their criticisms of Palestinian terror are muted at best. Of course Hamas sees them as allies. And he knows that liberal American Jews are ignorant enough to listen to these anti-Israel NGOs as a step towards pushing for a Palestinian state that would treat Jews exactly as well as every other Arab state has treated its Jews.

Notice also that Hamas' stated goal of dividing Jews in America exactly mirrors that of J-Street.

(full article online)

Hamas' plan to use NGOs - and liberal Jews - to help destroy Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

These Palestinian schools (in the PA-controlled West Bank, Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, private schools belonging to the various Christian churches and Islamic charity foundations, as well as UNRWA schools) all receive their books from the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Education’s Curricula Center in Ramallah. As concluded by Dr. Arnon Groiss, whose research on the subject spans 18 years, the most recent set of books published in 2016/2018 are even more radical than their predecessors.

A curriculum of hatred permeates all subject matter, from elementary arithmetic to high school social studies and science. Martyrdom is glorified, any historical connection of Jews to their biblical homeland is fictionalized, contemporary maps of the region omit the existence of the UN member state of Israel, Jews are demonized, and terrorist/jihad concepts are woven into songs, plays, and academia. “The Right of Return” for over 5 million Palestinians is taught as a birthright — clearly an attempt to destroy the State of Israel. Summer camps for UNRWA school children in Gaza are essentially Hamas paramilitary training camps. It is nothing short of hair-raising to see an adorable schoolgirl demonstrate the best way to stab a Jew, or to hear a young schoolboy say that he dreams of one day becoming a martyr.

Below are several examples sited from the 2016-2018 books currently being used that illustrate this disturbing trend:

(full article online)

The path to peace begins in the classroom


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Muslim Arab Palestinian alternate Reality  ]

PA's official news agency says two "settlers" were killed in a "shooting incident" in Barkan.

(full article online)

PA media: Barkan attack was 'shooting incident'


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Palestinian terrorist murdered 2 and injured 1 at factory where Palestinians and Israelis work together *

*Fatah: “The Israeli government... is incapable of protecting anyone that steals the Palestinian land,” implying Israeli guilt in the murder*

*Fatah: “Israel... uses terror and murder...”*

*4 days before the murders, Fatah glorified another murderer, Muhannad Halabi, who killed 2 in Jerusalem, as “heroic Martyr”*
*Murderer grew up learning from the PA and its educational system that murdering Israelis is “heroic”*

*In Gaza, Palestinians celebrated the murders, handing out sweets in the streets*

*Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror organizations: “The heroic operation” is a “natural response to occupation’s crimes”*

(full article online)

Fatah blames Israel for yesterday’s murder of 2 Israelis - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma’an News Agency: ‘The Factions Welcome [The Operation], Candies in the Streets’


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian nation - who invented this lie?


----------



## Sixties Fan

To give an idea of the reactions, Archbishop of Jerusalem Michael Sabah called the sale of a single building  to Jews a "moral and national disaster."

The idea that Jews cannot buy houses in their own capital, in their holiest city, next to their holiest site, is not outrageous or antisemitic or even strange to the world.

The Joudeh family is yet another prominent Palestinian Muslim family who ar not indigenous. They come from the Hashemites and were in Mecca in Mohammed's time.

The Jews that bought the house for an exorbitant price are more indigenous to the area than the Arab colonizers they bought it from.

(I have yet to find a single Palestinian Muslim family who did not come to Palestine after the time of Mohammed. There are some Christian families who trace back to Roman times, but there seems to be a fair chance that they are Jewish converts from after the fall of Jerusalem.)

This story, of Arabs selling houses to Jews but trying to hide that fact, has been told many times over the past 90 years.

(full article online)

Palestinians absolutely freak out over Jews legally purchasing a house ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Foreign ministry launches Twitter campaign to encourage international pressure on PA to stop paying terrorist salaries.

(full article online)

Barkan attack terrorist to be paid monthly salary - for life


----------



## Sixties Fan

Archbishop of Jerusalem slams the PA for its sanctions on Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The situation in the Gaza Strip is unlikely to witness any positive changes. Even if Hamas were to be removed from power, the Palestinians would continue to suffer under other radical groups such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ).


Even if Hamas were to wake up tomorrow morning and have an about-face, striking a genuine truce with Israel, there will always be other terrorist groups that are prepared to breach the agreement any time they wish.


These are crucial factors that need to be taken into account by any international party that seeks a solution to the catastrophe called Gaza. Alternatively, one might to wish to continue to inhabit some alternate reality in which all be would be well if Israel would only ease restrictions on the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

How Iran Plans to Take Gaza


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The situation in the Gaza Strip is unlikely to witness any positive changes. Even if Hamas were to be removed from power, the Palestinians would continue to suffer under other radical groups such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ).
> 
> 
> Even if Hamas were to wake up tomorrow morning and have an about-face, striking a genuine truce with Israel, there will always be other terrorist groups that are prepared to breach the agreement any time they wish.
> 
> 
> These are crucial factors that need to be taken into account by any international party that seeks a solution to the catastrophe called Gaza. Alternatively, one might to wish to continue to inhabit some alternate reality in which all be would be well if Israel would only ease restrictions on the Gaza Strip.
> (full article online)
> 
> How Iran Plans to Take Gaza



The only hope for Gaza is time and the re-education of her young people.  Maybe Israel should take her back and make her an independent province of Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

First shipment of Qatar-funded fuel enters Gaza despite PA objections


----------



## Hollie

"May Allah Send the Message": Islamic Terrorist Posts Before Killing

*"MAY ALLAH SEND THE MESSAGE": ISLAMIC TERRORIST POSTS BEFORE KILLING.*

Another reminder that Islamic terrorists are not driven primarily by grievances, but by the conviction that Allah wants them to conquer, destroy and enslave non-Muslims. That includes the so-called "Palestinians", whose nationalism is ultimately Islamic, and directed at the Jews as the great "Others" who must be destroyed to prove the truth of Allah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Archbishop of Jerusalem slams the PA for its sanctions on Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Abbas and his cronies are on the way out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday and today, Qatar sent tanker trucks of fuel to Gaza through Egypt to get the power plant going again and ease the electricity crisis there. Israel and the UN cooperated in order to get this to happen, bypassing the Palestinian Authority which is against any ease in the humanitarian crisis in Gaza that it is largely responsible for.

Fatah issued a statement today saying that this deal was a step towards Gaza becoming a separate political entity run by Hamas, and saying that this was all part of the Trump/Kushner "Deal of the Century".

Apparently, Fatah now believes that Hamas, Israel, Egypt, the UN and Qatar are all colluding to push the still-unannounced deal. (Maybe also Morocco, which is sending 2 tons of medical supplies to Gaza today while the PA restricts medicines.)

The truth, of course, is that while Israel restricts goods to Gaza that can be used to create weapons, there are no other restrictions from Israel and no desire to punish Gazans for the actions of Hamas, despite the lies that the Palestinians (and Western haters of Israel) try to push.

The PA, on the other hand, has been explicitly engaging in collective punishment of Gaza for 18 months, deliberately trying to hurt the people of Gaza in order to get them to pressure Hamas to unify with Fatah.

(full article online)

Fatah effectively accuses UN, Qatar, Egypt, Hamas of supporting Trump's "Deal of the Century" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The most important religious figure in the Palestinian Authority and the closest to PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, continues to tell Palestinians that the conflict with Israel is an uncompromising religious war for Islam against Israel and Jews. Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who was appointed by Abbas as his personal advisor on Islam and the PA's Supreme Shari'ah Judge, recently stated that conflict today with Israel is "*The Battle of History between Islam and the enemies of Islam*." Israelis/Jews are the*"enemies of Islam," "enemies of Muslims," have a "culture of Satan," and represent "evil."* Worse yet, Al-Habbash explained that the current battle is not just another battle on behalf of Islam. It is the ultimate battle described in the Quran as the "final promise," leading to great destruction for the "Children of Israel." It should be noted that Al-Habbash teaches this message of epic religious war to a very religious Palestinian Muslim population. Polls consistently find that 95% of Palestinians saying that religion is "important" for them. 
















*Al-Habbash:* "Jerusalem is the arena of *conflict between us and the colonialist project [Israel]... Jerusalem's [Al-Aqsa] Mosque apparently is the heading for the eruption of the conflict and The Battle of History between Islam and the enemies of Islam; between the Muslims and the enemies of Muslims; between the Islamic culture in all its splendor and human glory and the culture of Satan* attempting to establish oppression and aggression at the expense of the culture of truth and goodness... This mosque is decreed to be the arena of *the battle between good and evil*. This mosque and this wonderful city - the city of history, religion, and culture, Jerusalem - are decreed to be the heading of the conflict... Jerusalem is the heading of this battle, this conflict, and this round, which* I and many others see as the key, as the first step, as the spark of the battle of the 'final promise*.'''
[Official PA TV,_ Quranic Horizons_, June 30, 2018, emphasis added]

While depicting the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis not as a political conflict but as one between Islam and "the culture of Satan," Al-Habbash referred to "the final promise." "The final promise" is mentioned in the Quran in Sura 17 where Allah addresses the Jews, referred to as "the Children of Israel," and can be seen as referring to either a battle of the past or a battle in the future in which Jews experience "[total] destruction". (See below).

In his talk, Al-Habbash explicitly said that he and others interpret this as referring to a battle yet to come, and the battle with Israel today over Jerusalem is "the spark of the battle," meaning, the beginning of this war of destruction:

"Jerusalem is the heading of this battle, this conflict, and this round, which *I and many others see as the key, as the first step, as the spark of the battle of the 'final promise*.'''

As documented by Palestinian Media Watch, Al-Habbash has previously explained clearly that he views the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis as one between "good" and "evil, and that Israel represents "Satan's project": 









(full article online)

Abbas’ advisor: Islam’s religious war to destroy Israel has started - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-same-old-sinwar/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Yesterday and today, Qatar sent tanker trucks of fuel to Gaza through Egypt to get the power plant going again and ease the electricity crisis there. Israel and the UN cooperated in order to get this to happen, bypassing the Palestinian Authority which is against any ease in the humanitarian crisis in Gaza that it is largely responsible for.
> 
> Fatah issued a statement today saying that this deal was a step towards Gaza becoming a separate political entity run by Hamas, and saying that this was all part of the Trump/Kushner "Deal of the Century".
> 
> Apparently, Fatah now believes that Hamas, Israel, Egypt, the UN and Qatar are all colluding to push the still-unannounced deal. (Maybe also Morocco, which is sending 2 tons of medical supplies to Gaza today while the PA restricts medicines.)
> 
> The truth, of course, is that while Israel restricts goods to Gaza that can be used to create weapons, there are no other restrictions from Israel and no desire to punish Gazans for the actions of Hamas, despite the lies that the Palestinians (and Western haters of Israel) try to push.
> 
> The PA, on the other hand, has been explicitly engaging in collective punishment of Gaza for 18 months, deliberately trying to hurt the people of Gaza in order to get them to pressure Hamas to unify with Fatah.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah effectively accuses UN, Qatar, Egypt, Hamas of supporting Trump's "Deal of the Century" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Fatah lost the last election. How did they end up running the West Bank?


----------



## Sixties Fan

This past spring I attended the Christ at the Checkpoint Conference (CATC), a biennial event organized by Bethlehem Bible College, an outpost of Christian anti-Zionism located in Beit Jala. The conference gives Palestinian Christians in the West Bank an opportunity to demonstrate their value to the corrupt tyrants who control Palestinian society (and protect Christians from jihadist violence) by demonizing Israel to Evangelicals from North America and Europe. The message offered at these conferences, which have taken place every even-numbered year since 2010, is that Evangelical support for Israel hinders the ability of Christians in the Middle East to live in peace and share their faith in Muslim-majority countries in the region. Speakers also seek to elicit feelings of guilt from the Western Christians while downplaying the problem of Arab and Muslim supremacism and Jew-hatred. With this narrative, Westerners are encouraged to expiate their guilt over Western colonialism by embracing a narrative that portrays Jews and their homeland as an obstacle to all that is good in the Muslim and Arab Middle East.

(full article online)

Fomenting Evangelical Hostility Toward Israel – Jewish Policy Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> This past spring I attended the Christ at the Checkpoint Conference (CATC), a biennial event organized by Bethlehem Bible College, an outpost of Christian anti-Zionism located in Beit Jala. The conference gives Palestinian Christians in the West Bank an opportunity to demonstrate their value to the corrupt tyrants who control Palestinian society (and protect Christians from jihadist violence) by demonizing Israel to Evangelicals from North America and Europe. The message offered at these conferences, which have taken place every even-numbered year since 2010, is that Evangelical support for Israel hinders the ability of Christians in the Middle East to live in peace and share their faith in Muslim-majority countries in the region. Speakers also seek to elicit feelings of guilt from the Western Christians while downplaying the problem of Arab and Muslim supremacism and Jew-hatred. With this narrative, Westerners are encouraged to expiate their guilt over Western colonialism by embracing a narrative that portrays Jews and their homeland as an obstacle to all that is good in the Muslim and Arab Middle East.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fomenting Evangelical Hostility Toward Israel – Jewish Policy Center


*Christ At The Checkpoint Day 2 - Palestinian Faith, Zionism Debate*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This past spring I attended the Christ at the Checkpoint Conference (CATC), a biennial event organized by Bethlehem Bible College, an outpost of Christian anti-Zionism located in Beit Jala. The conference gives Palestinian Christians in the West Bank an opportunity to demonstrate their value to the corrupt tyrants who control Palestinian society (and protect Christians from jihadist violence) by demonizing Israel to Evangelicals from North America and Europe. The message offered at these conferences, which have taken place every even-numbered year since 2010, is that Evangelical support for Israel hinders the ability of Christians in the Middle East to live in peace and share their faith in Muslim-majority countries in the region. Speakers also seek to elicit feelings of guilt from the Western Christians while downplaying the problem of Arab and Muslim supremacism and Jew-hatred. With this narrative, Westerners are encouraged to expiate their guilt over Western colonialism by embracing a narrative that portrays Jews and their homeland as an obstacle to all that is good in the Muslim and Arab Middle East.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fomenting Evangelical Hostility Toward Israel – Jewish Policy Center
> 
> 
> 
> *Christ At The Checkpoint Day 2 - Palestinian Faith, Zionism Debate*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


The City of Bethlehem which was officially considered part of Jordan and the founder of Judaism( King David) was  born belongs exclusively to the Palestinians? Keep dreaming !!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hadas Malka's father, David, spoke to the Media Thursday while family members of a terrorist who helped her murderer were hollering and gesturing at him behind his back.

On Thursday morning, the Be’er Sheva District Court accepted the state’s appeal and canceled the decision of the parole board to shorten Hani Darri’s sentence. Darri was convicted of driving the terrorist who murdered border policewoman Hadas Malka on June 16, 2017.

Malka, 23, was on patrol outside the Old City walls in Jerusalem when she was attacked near Damascus Gate. She was stabbed in the upper torso and died in Hadassah Hospital Mount Scopus.

(full article online)

Terrorist’s Relatives Yell, Mark Victory Sign, at Murdered Policewoman’s Father in Court


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two Wounded in Shomron Stabbing Terror Attack


----------



## Hollie

*IMAM: WE'LL KILL OUR WOMEN IF THEY DISHONOR US*
*Warns Muslims face 'major crisis' from social media, TV*

Read more at Imam: We’ll kill our women if they dishonor us -  WND.

While some Islamic scholars have insisted that “honor killing” is cultural rather than inherently Islamic, a prominent Palestinian Muslim cleric made it clear in a sermon at the iconic Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem that Muslim men are prepared to kill to defend their family’s name.

Sheik Issam Amira explained that Muslims are “undergoing a major crisis regarding the honor of their womenfolk” amid the many temptations posed by modernity.

Social media, television and women leaving the house without male chaperones are just some examples of the “obliteration” of women’s honor in Palestine, he said.




I'm not sure why this even made the news. The simple solution is for Arab-Moslem men to treat their womenfolk with the same status as domesticated livestock. 

That'll keep them-there bitches in line.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas pays "martyrs" and injured rioters, too ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

PLO: UN peace envoy ‘no longer acceptable’ because of Gaza truce efforts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> PLO: UN peace envoy ‘no longer acceptable’ because of Gaza truce efforts


PA/PLO - More and more irrelevant.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> PLO: UN peace envoy ‘no longer acceptable’ because of Gaza truce efforts
> 
> 
> 
> PA/PLO - More and more irrelevant.
Click to expand...


Hey Tinmore. 

What happened to the Hittites?


----------



## Sixties Fan

*UN mistranslation concealed Abbas'
glorification of terrorists and PA's pay for slay policy* 

*Abbas' words: *
*
"I pay tribute to our pure Martyrs and heroic prisoners... 
whom it is forbidden to pay"*
*
UN mistranslation: *
*
"I pay tribute to all freedom loving countries and peoples 
and our martyrs"

Was it done intentionally?*

(full article online)

UN mistranslation concealed Abbas' glorification of terrorists and PA's pay for slay policy   - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> PLO: UN peace envoy ‘no longer acceptable’ because of Gaza truce efforts
> 
> 
> 
> PA/PLO - More and more irrelevant.
Click to expand...


So you is your whining. There will be another Islamic terrorist dictator to fill any void. 

Ruthless dictators help to maintain order in Islamist societies.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Zachary J. Foster details in his 2011 Georgetown University MA thesis, "Arab Historiography in Mandatory Palestine, 1920--1948", many Arab historians

considered Palestine a constitutive part of Syria. Bahri, for instance, writes that Haifa is among the “mother cities of Syria broadly and Palestine specifically.” In his brief biography of Abid Baha’ Abbas, the founder of the Bahai faith, Bahri also lists all of the countries or regions with Bahai populations: Iran, Japan, China, India, Egypt, Syria (Suriyya), Europe and America. Insofar as there were many Bahai in “Palestine,” it only makes sense that Palestine was assumed as part of Syria in Bahri’s laundry list, or else it would have been an embarrassing oversight to neglect Palestine. Barghouthi and Totah add that Palestine “remained part of Syria, and a natural border did not separate it (Palestine) from it(Syria), and was not distant from it racially or historically, and therefore historians have not singled it [Palestine] out with a distinct name but rather they have related to it [i.e. naming, in terms of] the peoples and tribes living in it.”

(full article online)

My Right Word: Again, Is "Palestine" Really Part of Syria?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The number of actual refugees from 1948 is believed to be closer to 20,000.

As you saw in the clip, a Palestinian professor in Lebanon was interviewed who explained that Palestinian “refugees” in Lebanon – many of whom have lived in the country for generations – are truly second class citizens and are denied basic employment and property rights.  Yet, note how Adams failed to draw the most intuitive conclusion from this fact: that the refugee issue – and the fact that so many Arabs of Palestinian descent identify as “refugees” – is perpetuated by Arab states (and UNRWA) who refuse to encourage the full integration of Palestinians into their countries.  Nor, did Adams ask why such “refugee camps”, run by UNRWA, in Lebanon, Jordan, and within the Palestinian Authority have never been converted to ordinary cities. 

Adams’ other Palestinian interviewee – a young woman also several generations removed from the actual refugees of ’48 – insisted on her inalienable “right of return” to Israel.  But, BBC viewers were not reminded that such descendants of refugees don’t in fact have such a legal right to “return”, and that Israel would of course never engage in an act of national self-immolation by allowing millions of Palestinians to become citizens of the state.

Adams, in his final thoughts on the problem, opines that for such Palestinians, living in camps in Lebanon and Jordan, their refugee status is the only thing they possess.  However, hope based on a right (of return) they don’t have, and on a future vision of life (in Israel) that will never be brought to fruition, is not a possession. It’s a handicap, and a cynical formula for perpetuating Palestinian victimhood that continues to be amplified and legitimized by media outlets like the BBC.

(full article online)

BBC perpetuates the narrative of perpetual Palestinian refugees


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> PLO: UN peace envoy ‘no longer acceptable’ because of Gaza truce efforts
> 
> 
> 
> PA/PLO - More and more irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you is your whining. There will be another Islamic terrorist dictator to fill any void.
> 
> Ruthless dictators help to maintain order in Islamist societies.
Click to expand...



*"There will be another Islamic terrorist dictator to fill any void. Ruthless dictators help to maintain order in Islamist societies."*




no, really?  LoL.







 this represents what islam really is about.........all one has to do is look. (_a.f.a.i.c_)..............


----------



## Sixties Fan

When police found out about this, they arrested the three women for "public indecency."

Police spokesman Col. Louai Arzieqat said that following the publication on social networking sites of three girls dancing "in naked clothes" and acting in a "general disgrace," Bethlehem police arrested one of them and the other two escaped. The Department of Public Investigation tracked them and arrested them in Jericho.

(full article online)

Palestinian police arrest three young women for public indecency. They were dancing with short skirts. (Video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The alleged stabber is taken into custody on Thursday
night [Image Source]

*UPDATE* 12:05 am Friday October 12, 2018: *Times of Israel* says the attacker has been apprehended. He is un-named at this stage but reported to be a 19-year-old male from the Muslim village of *Jamma’in *(population about 7,000), about 16 km south of Nablus in Samaria. He is currently helping the Israeli security authorities with their enquiries. Hamas, according to Wikipedia, is the dominant political force in the town. A Hamas announcement [here in Arabic] says Thursday's stabbing attack at a bus stop is "_a slap to the occupation and failure of its security system... the operation comes in the context of our people's response to the arrogance of the occupation and its continuous violations against our people and our holy sites_".

*UPDATE* 12:30 pm Friday October 12, 2018: A Palestinian Arab source names the arrested suspect as Muaz Qassem Hussein, age 19. They publish his photo *here*.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 11-Oct-18: In Israel's Samaria district, an Arab-on-Israeli stabbing this afternoon


----------



## member

Sixties Fan said:


> When police found out about this, they arrested the three women for "public indecency."
> 
> Police spokesman Col. Louai Arzieqat said that following the publication on social networking sites of three girls dancing "in naked clothes" and acting in a "general disgrace," Bethlehem police arrested one of them and the other two escaped. The Department of Public Investigation tracked them and arrested them in Jericho.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian police arrest three young women for public indecency. They were dancing with short skirts. (Video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



*"Palestinian 'POLICE'"*

hilarious............


----------



## RoccoR

Sixties Fan,  et al,

Does anyone know what "in naked clothes" actually mean?  I saw the attached video and it just seem like high teenagers having fun...  Maybe it has some special meaning.

But it didn't look all that dangerous to the public health and safety to me.

v/r
R



Sixties Fan said:


> When police found out about this, they arrested the three women for "public indecency."
> 
> Police spokesman Col. Louai Arzieqat said that following the publication on social networking sites of three girls dancing "in naked clothes" and acting in a "general disgrace," Bethlehem police arrested one of them and the other two escaped. The Department of Public Investigation tracked them and arrested them in Jericho.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian police arrest three young women for public indecency. They were dancing with short skirts. (Video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Does anyone know what "in naked clothes" actually mean?  I saw the attached video and it just seem like high teenagers having fun...  Maybe it has some special meaning.
> 
> But it didn't look all that dangerous to the public health and safety to me.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When police found out about this, they arrested the three women for "public indecency."
> 
> Police spokesman Col. Louai Arzieqat said that following the publication on social networking sites of three girls dancing "in naked clothes" and acting in a "general disgrace," Bethlehem police arrested one of them and the other two escaped. The Department of Public Investigation tracked them and arrested them in Jericho.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian police arrest three young women for public indecency. They were dancing with short skirts. (Video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
Click to expand...

It is Sharia Law that women cannot dress that way.  It is a code of dressing they have. They find it to be a Western way of dressing and not conducive with Islam.

It basically meant that they were nearly naked, from the point of view of Islam.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Amazing.  Their Genesis starts with the "Nakba" of 1948.  These people truly show how they do not have a history or identity before that.  Actually before 1964.  ]






_Dr. Hussam Abu 'Ajwa with the new booklets (image: palsawa.com, October 10, 2018)_

According to the report on Dunya Al-Watan, the series includes four booklets. The first, titled "The Beginning," deals with "the tragedy of the Palestinian people, its Nakba and its expulsion to refugee camps in the homeland and abroad, and describes the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution and the heroic 'Elaboun operation.[3]

(full article online)

New Series Of Fatah Booklets For Children Glorifies Terrorists Such As Abu Jihad, Dalal Al-Mughrabi


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Tuesday, two tanker trucks each carrying 35,000 liters of diesel fuel were delivered to Gaza through Israel’s Kerem Shalom border crossing. Another seven fuel trucks were expected to enter Gaza on Wednesday. According to the Jerusalem Post, within a month, 15 such fuel trucks will enter Gaza every day.

(full article online)

Caroline Glick: Gaza Fuel Deal Cuts Out the Palestinian Authority | Breitbart


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA edict: Selling property to Israelis an act of ‘high treason’


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Amazing.  Their Genesis starts with the "Nakba" of 1948.  These people truly show how they do not have a history or identity before that.  Actually before 1964.  ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Dr. Hussam Abu 'Ajwa with the new booklets (image: palsawa.com, October 10, 2018)_
> 
> According to the report on Dunya Al-Watan, the series includes four booklets. The first, titled "The Beginning," deals with "the tragedy of the Palestinian people, its Nakba and its expulsion to refugee camps in the homeland and abroad, and describes the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution and the heroic 'Elaboun operation.[3]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> New Series Of Fatah Booklets For Children Glorifies Terrorists Such As Abu Jihad, Dalal Al-Mughrabi


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

OK, Bethlehem Police → You're talking about the West Bank Bethlehem*???*



Sixties Fan said:


> It is Sharia Law that women cannot dress that way.  It is a code of dressing they have. They find it to be a Western way of dressing and not conducive with Islam.
> 
> It basically meant that they were nearly naked, from the point of view of Islam.


*(COMMENT)*

That cannot be right.  I must be thinking of something else.  I cannot believe (or maybe I can) that all the pro-Palestinian women that have gone to school here in the US never wore a LBD (Little Black Dress) or a mini-skirt...  And I wonder if all the women that support the Arab Palestinians agree with the Sharia dress code.

WoW  So I take it that this would be a NO-GO in Bethlehem!



​
Yeah, we can't have this*!*

What would they say about New Orleans *Mardi Gras?*
Or, Venice Beach during Spring Break*!*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Young Palestinian boy called Musa bravely fights for his life after unique operation conducted by the surgical team at Israel’s Sheba Hospital

(full article online)


Palestinian baby gets heart transplant from Jewish child in medical first


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]

*Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*

(full article online)

Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Let us be clear. These are tragedies and not an act of youthful follies. Those are minors of vicious manipulation of incitement encouraged by the Palestinian Authority. Throwing stones at passing cars—kills. Stabbing people in the back—kills,” she stated.

“Addressing this challenge is not as simple as this resolution would lead you to believe. Before you rush to criticize Israel, consider that Palestinian media routinely displays examples of encouraging hatred for Jews among children—by both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. They glorify child martyrdom, name schools after terrorists, urge children to stab Israelis, and use minors as human shields—to cite just a few examples. Likewise, the textbooks used in the Palestinian Authority schools promote hatred against Israel, anti-Semitism and cite to martyrdom,” the Israeli lawmaker charged.

Lavie further stated that “administrative detention and other legal tools—for adults and minors alike—are widely used around the world, including by many member states of this body, to prevent terrorism and threats to society. Those who lead the resolution have tended to ignore this, of course.”

The IDF does arrest Palestinian minors because a significant number of Palestinian minors engage in terrorism. In the past few years, there have been dozens of terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinians from the ages of 8-17.

(full article online)

Israel Blasts Europeans for ‘Distorted and Selective’ Report on Palestinian Teen Terrorism


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’



Coyote 

On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.

There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."

Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
Click to expand...

Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....

And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
Click to expand...


What an utterly nonsense analogy. Hamas is enough Arabs-Moslems to cause significant damage and pose a genuine threat. I suppose the Israelis then are to dismiss the motivations that compel the _tiny minority of violent extremists who have hijacked Islam™_ and who want to push them into the sea by machinegun fire. 

Individuals may act one way, and groups of them act another. This statistic doesn't take into consideration what the larger group _approves_ of. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it.

This sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the action of the ideology. Nonsense. Just because a "_tiny minority of violent extremists who have hijacked Islam™_ actually commit mass murder and other atrocities doesn't mean the refusal of the Moslem world to reign in the mass murderers in their midst is in anyway mitigated. The people who are committing calculated mass murder the world over are Moslem. They believed mohammed (swish) was a prophet and they based their laws on the koran. That makes them moslem even if you would prefer those heinous monstrosities of human ignorance are not. But they are. Just accept that islam, like anyother political ideology – _is subject to interpretation_ and take responsibility that islam has spawned a lot of evil. Yes, islam. From the koran. The same one that Moslems on this board read.

I think it’s important to explicitly and consciously "take sides". I take a side opposite to a belligerent politico-religious ideology whose adherents are perpetually aggrieved members of humanity who see every exercise of personal or religious freedom as an insult to them. September 11, 2001, carved into the American mind a particular image of Islamist militancy: the moslem terrorist mass murder. Like the noisy, publicized, professional whiners and haters that we see who find any excuse to riot and cause mayhem, that image has obscured the many smaller, but in aggregate more dangerous, threats that Western societies face from Islamism. Moslems are cowed by their pious/fundamentalist brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What an utterly nonsense analogy. Hamas is enough Arabs-Moslems to cause significant damage and pose a genuine threat. I suppose the Israelis then are to dismiss the motivations that compel the _tiny minority of violent extremists who have hijacked Islam™_ and who want to push them into the sea by machinegun fire.
> 
> Individuals may act one way, and groups of them act another. This statistic doesn't take into consideration what the larger group _approves_ of. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it.
> 
> This sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the action of the ideology. Nonsense. Just because a "_tiny minority of violent extremists who have hijacked Islam™_ actually commit mass murder and other atrocities doesn't mean the refusal of the Moslem world to reign in the mass murderers in their midst is in anyway mitigated. The people who are committing calculated mass murder the world over are Moslem. They believed mohammed (swish) was a prophet and they based their laws on the koran. That makes them moslem even if you would prefer those heinous monstrosities of human ignorance are not. But they are. Just accept that islam, like anyother political ideology – _is subject to interpretation_ and take responsibility that islam has spawned a lot of evil. Yes, islam. From the koran. The same one that Moslems on this board read.
> 
> I think it’s important to explicitly and consciously "take sides". I take a side opposite to a belligerent politico-religious ideology whose adherents are perpetually aggrieved members of humanity who see every exercise of personal or religious freedom as an insult to them. September 11, 2001, carved into the American mind a particular image of Islamist militancy: the moslem terrorist mass murder. Like the noisy, publicized, professional whiners and haters that we see who find any excuse to riot and cause mayhem, that image has obscured the many smaller, but in aggregate more dangerous, threats that Western societies face from Islamism. Moslems are cowed by their pious/fundamentalist brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
Click to expand...

The responsibility of the “Moslem world” to “rein in”?

That is what makes your argument ridiculous.

They are not one entity.  They do not speak with one voice.  Like Christians or an other diverse group.

And what in the hell does your multi paragraph tirade against Muslims have to do with Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What an utterly nonsense analogy. Hamas is enough Arabs-Moslems to cause significant damage and pose a genuine threat. I suppose the Israelis then are to dismiss the motivations that compel the _tiny minority of violent extremists who have hijacked Islam™_ and who want to push them into the sea by machinegun fire.
> 
> Individuals may act one way, and groups of them act another. This statistic doesn't take into consideration what the larger group _approves_ of. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it.
> 
> This sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the action of the ideology. Nonsense. Just because a "_tiny minority of violent extremists who have hijacked Islam™_ actually commit mass murder and other atrocities doesn't mean the refusal of the Moslem world to reign in the mass murderers in their midst is in anyway mitigated. The people who are committing calculated mass murder the world over are Moslem. They believed mohammed (swish) was a prophet and they based their laws on the koran. That makes them moslem even if you would prefer those heinous monstrosities of human ignorance are not. But they are. Just accept that islam, like anyother political ideology – _is subject to interpretation_ and take responsibility that islam has spawned a lot of evil. Yes, islam. From the koran. The same one that Moslems on this board read.
> 
> I think it’s important to explicitly and consciously "take sides". I take a side opposite to a belligerent politico-religious ideology whose adherents are perpetually aggrieved members of humanity who see every exercise of personal or religious freedom as an insult to them. September 11, 2001, carved into the American mind a particular image of Islamist militancy: the moslem terrorist mass murder. Like the noisy, publicized, professional whiners and haters that we see who find any excuse to riot and cause mayhem, that image has obscured the many smaller, but in aggregate more dangerous, threats that Western societies face from Islamism. Moslems are cowed by their pious/fundamentalist brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The responsibility of the “Moslem world” to “rein in”?
> 
> That is what makes your argument ridiculous.
> 
> They are not one entity.  They do not speak with one voice.  Like Christians or an other diverse group.
> 
> And what in the hell does your multi paragraph tirade against Muslims have to do with Palestinians?
Click to expand...


I see. The Islamic terrorists in Gaza are operating and maintaining an Islamic terrorist syndicate but it's nobody's fault and no one is responsible. Acts of depravity committed by Arabs-Moslems and encouraged by Hamas are not subject to scrutiny.

Super!

I'm afraid that's just pointless.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
Click to expand...


That was a spectacular dodge.

It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated.  It is widely accepted across Palestinians.  The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls.  The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people. 

Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza.  Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza.  Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans. 

Stop excusing them.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> The responsibility of the “Moslem world” to “rein in”?
> 
> That is what makes your argument ridiculous.
> 
> They are not one entity.  They do not speak with one voice.



They don't?  I'm not so sure about that.  When was the last time a Jew walked on the Temple Mount and had any significant group of Muslims (or even a single one) SUPPORT the Jewish right to presence, prayer and worship in the Holiest Jewish Place?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The responsibility of the “Moslem world” to “rein in”?
> 
> That is what makes your argument ridiculous.
> 
> They are not one entity.  They do not speak with one voice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't?  I'm not so sure about that.  When was the last time a Jew walked on the Temple Mount and had any significant group of Muslims (or even a single one) SUPPORT the Jewish right to presence, prayer and worship in the Holiest Jewish Place?
Click to expand...


No.

They don’t.

Christians revere Bethlehem, but they don’t speak with the same voice.  Do all Jews speak with the same voice?  Is there one leader that speaks for them all? 

Of course not.

But Muslims are unique in this day and age aren’t they?  Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> No.
> 
> They don’t.
> 
> Christians revere Bethlehem, but they don’t speak with the same voice.  Do all Jews speak with the same voice?  Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> But Muslims are unique in this day and age aren’t they?  Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.



Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own.  I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community.  I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community.  There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.


----------



## Shusha

One would think that with all the Muslims in the world, if they believed in the rights of all people to be present, pray and worship at their own most Holy Places that Jews wouldn't have so much trouble being present and praying and worshiping on the Temple Mount.  Surely, all those Muslims who speak with a different voice would not permit such an egregious removal of fundamental human rights, would they?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a spectacular dodge.
> 
> It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated.  It is widely accepted across Palestinians.  The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls.  The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
> 
> Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza.  Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza.  Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
> 
> Stop excusing them.
Click to expand...


What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians?  How many of them are out murdering Jews?

I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people.  There is no excuse for it.  But who’s violence gets excused the most?  You heard it in these threads.

It is “understandable” when  a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew.  But it isn’t “understandable” when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian.  So why are people excusing it?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a spectacular dodge.
> 
> It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated.  It is widely accepted across Palestinians.  The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls.  The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
> 
> Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza.  Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza.  Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
> 
> Stop excusing them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians?  How many of them are out murdering Jews?
> 
> I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people.  There is no excuse for it.  But who’s violence gets excused the most?  You heard it in these threads.
> 
> It is “understandable” when  a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew.  But it isn’t “understandable” when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian.  So why are people excusing it?
Click to expand...



No, it is not the same hate.

"We are going to keep killing you" is NOT the same as "Stop trying to kill us".

AGAIN, Israel is not massing tens of thousands of people on the border trying to break through and kill Arabs. 

There is no equivalence here.  And yet, you keep trying to make an equivalence.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> They don’t.
> 
> Christians revere Bethlehem, but they don’t speak with the same voice.  Do all Jews speak with the same voice?  Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> But Muslims are unique in this day and age aren’t they?  Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own.  I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community.  I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community.  There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.
Click to expand...


There are 1.8 billion Muslims in a huge number of countries, with different cultures around the world.  They are not one culture or ethnicity and they don’t even all agree or like each other.

There are 2.2 billion Christians in a huge number of countries, with different cultures around the world.  They are not one culture or ethnicity and they don’t even all agree or like each other.

You might believe in it, but that doesn’t make a fair or realistic expectation of such unified groups.  Nor does it change the fact that Muslims are the only group on whom this expectation is demanded and who’s various statements condemning violence and extremism  are routinely ignored or marginalized.  Double standards.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ "All Lands of Palestine"  means  ALL OF ISRAEL  ]
> 
> *Ismail Haniyeh says ‘blood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,’ vows ongoing fight until ‘siege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is lifted’*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas leader: We won’t halt Gaza marches for ‘diesel fuel and dollars’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a spectacular dodge.
> 
> It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated.  It is widely accepted across Palestinians.  The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls.  The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
> 
> Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza.  Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza.  Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
> 
> Stop excusing them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians?  How many of them are out murdering Jews?
> 
> I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people.  There is no excuse for it.  But who’s violence gets excused the most?  You heard it in these threads.
> 
> It is “understandable” when  a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew.  But it isn’t “understandable” when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian.  So why are people excusing it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not the same hate.
> 
> "We are going to keep killing you" is NOT the same as "Stop trying to kill us".
> 
> AGAIN, Israel is not massing tens of thousands of people on the border trying to break through and kill Arabs.
> 
> There is no equivalence here.  And yet, you keep trying to make an equivalence.
Click to expand...


How is firebombing a house full of sleeping people a statement of “stop trying to kill us?”


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> They don’t.
> 
> Christians revere Bethlehem, but they don’t speak with the same voice.  Do all Jews speak with the same voice?  Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> But Muslims are unique in this day and age aren’t they?  Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own.  I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community.  I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community.  There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are 1.8 billion Muslims in a huge number of countries, with different cultures around the world.  They are not one culture or ethnicity and they don’t even all agree or like each other.
> 
> You might believe in it, but that doesn’t make a fair or realistic expectation of such unified groups.  Nor does it change the fact that Muslims are the only group on whom this expectation is demanded and who’s various statements condemning violence and extremism  are routinely ignored or marginalized.  Double standards.
Click to expand...



How can a designation such as "Muslim" even mean anything if we all agree that this Muslim has nothing in common with that Muslim and there is no common ground upon which they stand.  It becomes a meaningless word.  

Muslims, imo, who reject violence and extremism and who support the rights of ALL peoples to worship and pray and live according to their own self-determination and history and traditions are not doing ENOUGH within their own communities.

And no, Muslims are NOT by a long shot the only group upon whom this expectation is demanded.  One only has to look at the antisemitism and attacks against Jews around the world to know that.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same.  i disagree.  And this is why.
> 
> There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us?  And acknowledge our history?  And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
> 
> Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas isn’t all Palestinians or even most however....
> 
> And why can’t israeli’s Also acknowledge the Palestinian’s history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a spectacular dodge.
> 
> It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated.  It is widely accepted across Palestinians.  The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls.  The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
> 
> Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza.  Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza.  Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
> 
> Stop excusing them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians?  How many of them are out murdering Jews?
> 
> I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people.  There is no excuse for it.  But who’s violence gets excused the most?  You heard it in these threads.
> 
> It is “understandable” when  a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew.  But it isn’t “understandable” when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian.  So why are people excusing it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not the same hate.
> 
> "We are going to keep killing you" is NOT the same as "Stop trying to kill us".
> 
> AGAIN, Israel is not massing tens of thousands of people on the border trying to break through and kill Arabs.
> 
> There is no equivalence here.  And yet, you keep trying to make an equivalence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is firebombing a house full of sleeping people a statement of “stop trying to kill us?”
Click to expand...


You are stuck on that single incident as though that single incident defines the entirety of Israeli thought.  Again, Israel is not massing tens of thousands of people on the border trying to break through and kill Arabs.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> They don’t.
> 
> Christians revere Bethlehem, but they don’t speak with the same voice.  Do all Jews speak with the same voice?  Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> But Muslims are unique in this day and age aren’t they?  Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own.  I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community.  I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community.  There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are 1.8 billion Muslims in a huge number of countries, with different cultures around the world.  They are not one culture or ethnicity and they don’t even all agree or like each other.
> 
> You might believe in it, but that doesn’t make a fair or realistic expectation of such unified groups.  Nor does it change the fact that Muslims are the only group on whom this expectation is demanded and who’s various statements condemning violence and extremism  are routinely ignored or marginalized.  Double standards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How can a designation such as "Muslim" even mean anything if we all agree that this Muslim has nothing in common with that Muslim and there is no common ground upon which they stand.  It becomes a meaningless word.
> 
> Muslims, imo, who reject violence and extremism and who support the rights of ALL peoples to worship and pray and live according to their own self-determination and history and traditions are not doing ENOUGH within their own communities.
> 
> And no, Muslims are NOT by a long shot the only group upon whom this expectation is demanded.  One only has to look at the antisemitism and attacks against Jews around the world to know that.
Click to expand...


We will have to agree to disagree then.   People may have a common faith and set of beliefs but doesn’t much when they don’t even agree on who is a real member of that faith and who isn’t.  COMMUNITY faith groups can work to change within their group but a Muslim in Canada has no influence on a Muslim in Egypt and they don’t even share the same culture.  Why should he be held responsible?  Perhaps Jews and Muslims have a lot in common when it comes to demands of apology.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> COMMUNITY faith groups can work to change within their group but a Muslim in Canada has no influence on a Muslim in Egypt and they don’t even share the same culture.



I absolutely disagree.  A Muslim in Canada can influence not only other Muslims in Canada, but Muslims elsewhere.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> COMMUNITY faith groups can work to change within their group but a Muslim in Canada has no influence on a Muslim in Egypt and they don’t even share the same culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely disagree.  A Muslim in Canada can influence not only other Muslims in Canada, but Muslims elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Perhaps in time but there are huge cultural gulfs you are unwilling to recognize.  And demanding an entire religion to apologize for the acts of some is wrong coming from a culture that values individual rights and responsibility for ones actions.  You pointed out antisemitism demands it of Jews in entirety.  Perhaps it is anti-Islam that demands it of Muslims in entirety rather an individual for his acts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Armed Palestinian arrested at West Bank checkpoint: ‘I came to kill Jews’


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli Knesset member uses Bible to prove "Palestinian's" fake history


----------



## Mindful

Why do the Palestinians ignore that Jordan and Egypt annexed the West Bank and Gaza for years respectively?

Because at the time between 1948 and 1967, there was little to no Palestinian Nationalism. One of the things you hear a lot of in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is that there never was a Palestinian state. As in before 1948, there wasn't a movement for the Arabs in the area to become independent, they felt more a part of the people from neighboring countries. They didn't start developing a separate identity until very close to 1967, around the time of the creation of the PLO in 1964.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Palest...the-West-Bank-and-Gaza-for-years-respectively


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/10/...e-thousands-not-millions-israeli-study-finds/


----------



## member

Shusha said:


> One would think that with all the Muslims in the world, if they believed in the rights of all people to be present, pray and worship at their own most Holy Places that Jews wouldn't have so much trouble being present and praying and worshiping on the Temple Mount.  Surely, all those Muslims who speak with a different voice would not permit such an egregious removal of fundamental human rights, would they?






 _*"Surely, all those Muslims who speak with a different voice would not permit such an egregious removal of fundamental human rights, would they?"*_




 weirdos.... _"because you're a woman, *you weren't allowed to drive*..."_





















​



​
Woo-hoo!
_They won..._​










​




_it's all perfectly normal......_​


----------



## Sixties Fan

The incident occurred ten months ago, when the victim was returning to his home in the Old City.

The assailant spotted the victim and threw a block at him from a height of thirteen feet, and as a result, the young man suffered a head injury, requiring stitches.

"A terrorist who was convicted of causing serious injury tried to murder my client solely because he was a Jew. We are grateful to the police and the State Prosecutor for taking the terrorist and incriminating him, but unfortunately the terrorist was not charged and convicted as he was," said Haim Bleicher, the attorney who represented the victim.

"But unfortunately the terrorist was not charged and convicted of attempted murder, as he should have been, for what was an attack with racist, nationalist motives."

(full article online)

Arab convicted for throwing block at Israeli youth in Jerusalem


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> Armed Palestinian arrested at West Bank checkpoint: ‘I came to kill Jews’



He should be thrown in jail with the key thrown away


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority reacted to the news of Israel allowing Jews to live in a couple of buildings in Hebron a "declaration of war."

That would sound serious, except that they say that all the time.

Israel temporarily closes the Temple Mount? Declaration of war!
Israel cuts payments to the PA that go to terrorists? Declaration of war!
The US recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital? Declaration of war!
Australia cutting funds to the PA? Declaration of war!
US closing PLO office in Washington? Declaration of war!

I guess they think that the rhetoric works.

For the 87th time, Palestinians call something they don't like "a declaration of war" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

One of the faster ways to put yourself on the “hate list” in the Sunni Arab world is to be seen as sucking up to the Shiite version of Islamism. Like other minority groups (ahmadiyya, for example), the Shiite are often viewed as a heretical sect by the majority Sunni.

Nasrallah is a bought-and-paid-for lackey of the Iranian Mullocrats. Ahed being viewed as bending and scraping before the Iranian Shiite heretics won’t play well in the Sunni Arab world.


"Palestinian Activist Ahed Tamimi: I Do Not Regret Supporting Nasrallah, I Agree with His Positions against U.S. and Israel"


----------



## Hollie

In another episode of "Conspiracy Theory Central", aka PA TV, aka TITNN,(The Islamic Terrorist News Network). we're entertained with more of the loopy conspiracy theories that consume the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists.


"Egyptian Political Analyst Dr. Wassim Al-Sissy on PA TV: The Jews Toppled Germany, the Ottoman Caliphate, and Czarist Russia at Britain's Request in Return for the Balfour Declaration"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has reported in the past on this cult-like behavior towards "Martyrs", which the Palestinian Authority promotes and glorifies.

Not only does the "Martyr's" "glory" rub off on you if you touch him, but the Martyr is also believed to be "a groom" on his way to his wedding to the 72 Virgins in Paradise: 

"When the body of the Martyr reached his home, his closest friend Ata looked for the Martyr's mother and shouted: 'We have brought you the groom; we have brought you the groom.'"
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 2, 2018]

According to Islamic belief, a "Martyr" marries 72 Dark-Eyed Virgins in Paradise. Therefore a "Martyr's" funeral is considered a "wedding." Palestinian religious leaders have repeatedly explained that becoming a "Martyr" represents the highest achievement that can be attained by a Muslim. 

This cult-like Martyr worship by the PA has been going on for years. Palestinian children were taught to glorify Martyrs _(Shahids)_ during the PA's 5-year terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005). The PA reported at the time that the children would play "the _Shahid_ Game" and argue over who gets to play the best part and die as a "Martyr": 

"A seven year old girl says to her friends: 'Let's play the _Shahid_ (Martyr) Game!' The children... argue who will play the _Shahid_. Fa'iz, 6 years old, says: 'You were the _Shahid_ yesterday, today it's my turn! I'm younger than you. I'll be the one to die!'"
[Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 26, 2001]





*Palestinian children:* "In spirit and blood, we'll redeem you, oh Martyr! Allah Akbar!" 
*PA TV narrator:* "That's the _Shahid_ (Martyr) Game." 
[Official PA TV, July 1, 2002

(full article online)

Touch the dead "Martyr" and brag to your friends - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Contradictions and holes in the tragic story of the Arab woman killed by a stone ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Third World Thematics: A TWQ Journal,published in August:





Yes, Palestinian women killed while trying to stab Jews are referred to as martyrs, without scare quotes, in an academic journal.

(full article online)

Nutty academic paper of the day refers to Palestinian women stabbers as "martyrs" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian Media Watch has reported in the past on this cult-like behavior towards "Martyrs", which the Palestinian Authority promotes and glorifies.
> 
> Not only does the "Martyr's" "glory" rub off on you if you touch him, but the Martyr is also believed to be "a groom" on his way to his wedding to the 72 Virgins in Paradise:
> 
> "When the body of the Martyr reached his home, his closest friend Ata looked for the Martyr's mother and shouted: 'We have brought you the groom; we have brought you the groom.'"
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 2, 2018]
> 
> According to Islamic belief, a "Martyr" marries 72 Dark-Eyed Virgins in Paradise. Therefore a "Martyr's" funeral is considered a "wedding." Palestinian religious leaders have repeatedly explained that becoming a "Martyr" represents the highest achievement that can be attained by a Muslim.
> 
> This cult-like Martyr worship by the PA has been going on for years. Palestinian children were taught to glorify Martyrs _(Shahids)_ during the PA's 5-year terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005). The PA reported at the time that the children would play "the _Shahid_ Game" and argue over who gets to play the best part and die as a "Martyr":
> 
> "A seven year old girl says to her friends: 'Let's play the _Shahid_ (Martyr) Game!' The children... argue who will play the _Shahid_. Fa'iz, 6 years old, says: 'You were the _Shahid_ yesterday, today it's my turn! I'm younger than you. I'll be the one to die!'"
> [Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 26, 2001]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian children:* "In spirit and blood, we'll redeem you, oh Martyr! Allah Akbar!"
> *PA TV narrator:* "That's the _Shahid_ (Martyr) Game."
> [Official PA TV, July 1, 2002
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Touch the dead "Martyr" and brag to your friends - PMW Bulletins



I tend to get the dry heaves when I read about the sickness that engenders such behavior.


----------



## Hollie

My observation is that Arab-Moslem societies tend to be more conspiracy theory addled than modern societies. This is most apparent with the fears, superstitions and hatreds for Jews that literally consumes Arabs-Moslems. 

"Palestinian Author Adham Sharkawi: Europeans Supported Jewish State to Get Rid of Jews, Hitler Was Influenced by the Jews' Attempt to Enslave Germany"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Canadian Imam and the Dehumanization of Israel and “the Jews”


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Canadian Imam and the Dehumanization of Israel and “the Jews”



Ugh.  I'm embarrassed that this is happening in Canada.  And would point out the sharp contrast between these sermons and the sermons giving in Jewish synagogues.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canadian Imam and the Dehumanization of Israel and “the Jews”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh.  I'm embarrassed that this is happening in Canada.  And would point out the sharp contrast between these sermons and the sermons giving in Jewish synagogues.
Click to expand...

I would say that this could be happening in France, Sweden, Australia, the UK, and other places.

They do feel very emboldened with how many Muslims are moving into these countries and how they feel they have the upper hand against "The Jews".


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Critic of Abbas' Gaza policy threatened, kidnapped in Ramallah ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It will be very hard for Palestinian Arabs to prove their 20,000 years presence on the land of Canaan if they keep destroying every antiquity they find, right?  Do they not have any respect for the ancestors' villages, etc?  Do they do the same thing to their antiquities in the Arabian Peninsula? ]

Arab antiquities robbers caught red-handed destroying ancient Jewish village in northern Israel with a bulldozer. 'The sights are shocking.'

According to Nir Distelfeld, the inspector of the Antiquities Authority's robbery prevention unit in the northern region, "The illegal and brutal excavations at the archeological sites are causing terrible destruction of heritage sites, and the history of all of us has been damaged forever. This excavation site, near the village of Daburiya from where the robbers came, gets hit time after time with attempts at illegal digging in searches for antiquities. The pursuit of money takes the sense out of people. The scenes at the site are shocking and cause one to shudder, and fortunately they were stopped and greater damage was prevented. It is important to know that digging at an antiquities site is a criminal offense, and that the maximum penalty prescribed for it in the law is up to five years in prison," he said.

The antiquity site known as Horvat Devorah is identified in research with the biblical Dovrat, and with Dvora, described as a Jewish village in the Zippori region in the Roman period. In the past, foundations of buildings, hewn water cisterns and ancient tombs have been found at the site.

(full article online)

Arabs destroy ancient Jewish village


----------



## Sixties Fan

The usual Arab channels are publicizing the attacker's name and portrait. His face can be seen *here*. One Arab source [*here*] names him as Elias Saleh Yassin from *Biddya*, and says he was 22 years old. It refers to him as "martyr".

Praise from Hamas was not long in coming:
"_The martyrdom of Elias was a response to the crime of the settlers against the martyr Aisha Al-Rabi of the same town. It affirms the right of our people to defend themselves and resist the occupation that assaults humans and land with American support and international silence_." Hamas tells "_the resistance_" to "_continue this path that the enemy does not understand... the shortest way to liberate from occupation and to acquire the rights and the building of our Palestinian state_." [*Arabic source*]The propaganda-centric Ma'an News Agency headlines the *English-language edition *of its report on today's failed stabbing attack with this: "*Palestinian shot dead after alleged stabbing attack near Salfit"*. Its Arabic edition by contrast is more expansive and less shy: "*A martyrtried to stab soldiers north of the West Bank*".  The use of the word "martyr" in Arabic-language reporting is a core element in the ongoing Arab incitement to more and worse Arab-on-Israeli terrorist violence.

It is unconscionable that Ma'an's work is funded by European governments [see "*09-Jul-15: When incitement to murder is financed by foreign aid, where will the accounting come from?*"]

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 15-Oct-18: Monday noon: Another Arab-on-Israeli stabbing attack in Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

I read a fair amount of Zionist literature and I don't recall seeing anything that linked Arab women's bodies with the "native land" - since Zionism defines Israel as the Jewish native land and Jews as the natives of the land!

_Therefore, Zionist settler colonialism must be considered a not only racialised but also gendered process. _

If one could find these fictional proofs that Zionists care so much about Arab women and treat them differently than Arab men, sure.

_Palestinian women’s stories are complex and contradictory and cast the body as the key medium through which they experience citizenship in Israel as a continuation of settler colonialism by other means._ 

So they are citizens. They can vote and create Internet startups. They can drive, become Knesset members and news anchors and reality TV stars. But somehow their citizenship is a continuation of the equally nonexistent settler colonialism.

_This paper claims that it is, in fact, via citizenship that the Palestinian women’s forced exclusion from the Israeli body politic is realised, thereby debunking prevailing Zionist myths of citizenship in Israel and the Nakba as a one-off event._

So by giving them full rights of citizenship, Israel is really taking away their rights! How insidious these Jews are!

Please, please, someone send me the full text so we can see how the author debunks obviously verifiable facts about Arab women citizens of Israel.


(full article online)

Crazy academic paper of the day: "Palestinian women in Israel: embodied citizen strangers" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Reminder, this was before the 1967 War and the loss of Gaza and Judea, Samaria to Israel, when the "Palestinian Arabs" had just started calling themselves "Palestinians" ]





From the New York Times, April 4, 1966:

 JERUSALEM (Jordanian Sector), March 30 -“The Arab states will not integrate the Palestine refugees because integration would be a slow process of liquidating the Palestine problem." Ahmed Shukairy. chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization. declared in an interview today.

“Consequently. the refugees don’t want to be integrated.” he continued. “If there are no Palestinian people. there is no Palestinian cause. We can't conceive of a Babylonian cause today because there are no Babylonians. But we start from the premise that we will achieve the liberation of Palestine soon."
-------
The then-PLO leader is explicitly saying that he doesn't want the Arab nations to integrate the refugees because the "Palestinian cause"is more important then their human rights.

(The claim that the refugees didn't want to be integrated is a lie. Every time they had the chance to gain citizenship, in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon or the West, they eagerly took that opportunity.)

The very end of the article makes this even more explicit. The reporter interviews a Palestinian who is about to go to Sweden for training as a mechanic. Even so, he insists that he would return - but there is a PLO official in the room during the interview.


(full article online)

The PLO in 1966 said it: We will force our people to remain refugees against their will - or else there is no Palestinian cause ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Come again?  It is about Israel and the Palestinians????  ]

*Jews "dance and live on the body parts of others... 
There is no global corruption that they are not behind"*
*says PA Shari'ah Judge on official PA TV*


*The Jews are "the people of falsehood" *
*"Among the Jews we find nothing but corruption and depravity"*
(full article online)

Jews "dance and live on the body parts of others" and are behind "global corruption," says PA Islamic Judge on PA TV - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) – the Israeli military liaison with business and political leaders in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza – said in a statement Monday that the date industry is “growing at an exceptional rate.

And dates comprise an “important part of the Palestinian economy,” according to the COGAT.


http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...ell-says-israeli-military-liaison/2018/10/15/


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Come again?  It is about Israel and the Palestinians????  ]
> 
> *Jews "dance and live on the body parts of others...
> There is no global corruption that they are not behind"
> says PA Shari'ah Judge on official PA TV*
> 
> 
> *The Jews are "the people of falsehood" *
> *"Among the Jews we find nothing but corruption and depravity"*
> (full article online)
> 
> Jews "dance and live on the body parts of others" and are behind "global corruption," says PA Islamic Judge on PA TV - PMW Bulletins




Nope.  Nothing to do with Jews.  No antisemitism around here.  Certainly not a religious conflict at all.  /sarcasm


----------



## Sixties Fan

This morning in Beersheba, Israel, a mother saved her three children's lives by hurrying to their shelter as a Palestinian rocket fired from Gaza blew up their bedrooms. This morning in Geneva, Switzerland, I am at the UN Human Rights Council, and they couldn't care less.

Hillel Neuer on Twitter

‘Hero’ mom asks for help after Beersheba home destroyed by Gaza rocket


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Christian Arab dilemma


----------



## Sixties Fan

The world was enraged when 8 Palestinian terrorists from Fatah's Black September took 11 Israeli athletes and coaches hostage at the Olympics in Munich on September 5, 1972, and later murdered them.

However, in Palestinian ideology the attack and the murders are presented as a "heroic" event to be proud of. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that both the PA and Fatah continuously glorify the terror attack, the terrorists themselves, and those who planned it. 

On this year's anniversary of the murders of the Israeli athletes, Abbas' Fatah Movement posted a video that lauds the attack and praises Fatah's terror organization Black September that planned and carried out the attack. Fatah introduced the video of what it called the "heroic operation" with the following words:

*Posted text:*_ "The 46th anniversary of the heroic operation #Munich #The_symbols_of_the_Fatah_Movement_Lebanon #Be_strong_and_brave_homeland"_















*Text on screen:*
"The time: Sept. 5-6, 1972
The place: Germany, Munich - the Olympic Village
The number: 8
_Visual: The eight terrorists who murdered 11 Israeli athletes in the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre_
Commander of the operation: Mahmoud Nazzal 'Che'
The goal: Capturing Israeli hostages to exchange them for Palestinian prisoners
_Visual: Head of the terror organization Black September Salah Khalaf and PLO chairman Yasser Arafat_
The plan: Breaking into the Israeli delegation's quarters in the Olympic Village
The self-sacrificing fighters demanded the release of 200 Arab prisoners in the Israeli prisons
_Visual: Defense Minister Moshe Dayan and Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir_
Israel refused to comply with the demands of the self-sacrificing fighters
10:15 p.m.: Two helicopters with the self-sacrificing fighters and the hostages took off...
An ambush had been laid for them at the airport
Twelve German snipers... opened fire on the self-sacrificing fighters
Five of the self-sacrificing fighters became Martyrs and three were arrested
All the 11 members of the [Israeli] delegation were killed (sic., there were other members of the Israeli delegation who were housed in other locations and were not murdered)
The Black September group stunned the world and made it hold its breath for more than 12 hours in Munich
_Visual: Mastermind of the Munich massacre Abu Daoud_
Fatah TV production"
[Facebook page of Fatah TV, Sept. 5, 2018

(full article online)

Even after 46 years, Fatah still lauds its Olympics massacre - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Addressing the body’s regular meeting on the Middle East, Danon presented an official Palestinian Authority textbook that Abbas had authorized for the current school year.

“This textbook lists a number of so-called heroes — like Dalal Mughrabi — the terrorist responsible for a massacre that killed 38 people,” Danon declared. “This is Abbas’ culture of hate — right in front of you. This is the reason Palestinian schoolchildren learn that it is better to kill a Jew than keep a job.”

Danon commented that in “13 years of rule, Abbas has done nothing but inspire this rampant culture of hate…He preaches tolerance in English and terror in Arabic…He has led his people down a path of self-destruction and misery, stealing their chance at a good life. He is the obstacle to peace. If you hope to see a better future between Israelis and Palestinians, you will join us in indicting Abbas.”

(full article online)

Israeli UN Ambassador: Palestinian Authority Leader Abbas Has ‘Done Nothing but Inspire Rampant Culture of Hate’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Exclusive: PA arrests Palestinian-American for property sale to Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

EXPOSED: Palestinians Stage ‘Atrocities’ in Low Budget Scam Video


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> EXPOSED: Palestinians Stage ‘Atrocities’ in Low Budget Scam Video


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab-American in PA Jail for Selling Home to Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza teen paralyzed in IDF strike visits Beersheba home destroyed by rocket


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Such a terrible thing: falafel theft!

And now hummus. Is there no shame!

I can’t help but be concerned with a Cult that makes such nonsensical claims. 

An invented people in an invented “country” claiming an invented nationality, all of it invented by an Egyptian in the late 1960’s. 




*PA TV: Israel stole the Palestinian falafel and hummus*
*along with the rest of the Palestinian heritage

PA TV: Israel stole the Palestinian falafel and hummus along with the rest of the Palestinian heritage - PMW Bulletins*





By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

One of the more flavorful accusations against Israel by the Palestinian Authority is that Israel has "stolen the falafel and the hummus." This "theft," according to official PA TV, is part of a "brutal attack" against the entire "Palestinian heritage": 















*Official PA TV reporter:* "We are talking about a brutal attack against the Palestinian heritage in general, including Palestinian foods. There has been theft of the Palestinian falafel, the Palestinian hummus, and some popular foods by the occupation. Holding [food] festivals like these is essential in order to preserve the heritage and also the Palestinian foods."
[Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Oct. 3, 2018]


----------



## Shusha

Funny how "falafel theft" is a brutal attack against the Palestinian heritage while the Temple Mount is a "shared holy place of three religions which can only be accessed and used by one religion".

What's yours is ours(mine) but what's mine is mine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A preacher on official PA TV taught that Hitler was one of a series of people sent by Allah throughout history to punish the Jews because of their evil behavior, and to teach them a lesson. However, the preacher taught in Friday's sermon, in spite of all these punishments the Jews "have not learned from the events of history," and continue their evil ways. 

The Jews deserve their punishment, he assured his listeners. Their mentality is one of "arrogance... superiority over other people... seclusion." Jews are "planning and systematically working to incite wars and strife in the entire world." Because of this behavior the Jews have been punished. First Allah sent the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the First Temple, then he sent the Roman Titus to destroy the Second Temple, and then Hitler and the kings of Europe, and still the Jews did not learn their lesson:
















"They didn't learn from what Hitler did to them, and the kings of Europe, and Spain - they didn't learn."
[Official PA TV, Oct. 19, 2018]

Seven times in this short excerpt (see below) the unidentified preacher repeated and emphasized his antisemitic message that Jews refuse to learn from Allah's punishments:

"They didn't learn. They have continued to behave the same way... Those [Jews] have not learned from the events of history."

The preacher opened his condemnation of the Jews citing a verse from the Quran to prove his point that the Jews' suffering is not coincidental but is a punishment from Allah because of their bad behavior. He quoted a verse saying that Allah's punishment can be seen "throughout the earth":

"Proceed throughout the earth and observe how was the end of those who denied." [Quran 3:137, Sahih International] 

The sermon was preached at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected dwellings and a school and which is slated for destruction. The preacher was filmed from behind and his face was not visible.


(full article online)

Hitler was sent by Allah to punish the Jews - PA TV sermon - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

So, in a bizarre search for despair and disappointment I started to read the linked article. It describes, somewhat, the alternate reality that is the many islamic terrorist front groups that collectively form an entire network of welfare fraud sub-groups.

*A Legislature Where Palestinian Lawmakers Go to Hide*

A Legislature Where Palestinian Lawmakers Go to Hide

Among The alphabet soup of names that are, or were, used to describe various islamic terrorist welfare fraud recipient agencies, there is something called a "Pal'istanian legislature". The description of this utter embarrassment and the oxygen wasting islamic terrorist thieves who steal from this welfare fraud monstrosity makes my head spin.

"The 132-member legislature has been defunct since a 2007 split between Fatah, which dominates the Palestinian Authority and the Palestine Liberation Organization, and Hamas, the Islamist faction that rules the Gaza Strip. Yet there are not one but three legislative buildings: one here in Ramallah, the seat of the Palestinian Authority; one in the Gaza Strip, where Hamas lawmakers occasionally make decisions whose legality is dubious; and a half-built one in Abu Dis, outside Jerusalem, once imagined as the capital of a future independent Palestinian State."


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> A preacher on official PA TV taught that Hitler was one of a series of people sent by Allah throughout history to punish the Jews because of their evil behavior, and to teach them a lesson. However, the preacher taught in Friday's sermon, in spite of all these punishments the Jews "have not learned from the events of history," and continue their evil ways.
> 
> The Jews deserve their punishment, he assured his listeners. Their mentality is one of "arrogance... superiority over other people... seclusion." Jews are "planning and systematically working to incite wars and strife in the entire world." Because of this behavior the Jews have been punished. First Allah sent the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the First Temple, then he sent the Roman Titus to destroy the Second Temple, and then Hitler and the kings of Europe, and still the Jews did not learn their lesson:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They didn't learn from what Hitler did to them, and the kings of Europe, and Spain - they didn't learn."
> [Official PA TV, Oct. 19, 2018]
> 
> Seven times in this short excerpt (see below) the unidentified preacher repeated and emphasized his antisemitic message that Jews refuse to learn from Allah's punishments:
> 
> "They didn't learn. They have continued to behave the same way... Those [Jews] have not learned from the events of history."
> 
> The preacher opened his condemnation of the Jews citing a verse from the Quran to prove his point that the Jews' suffering is not coincidental but is a punishment from Allah because of their bad behavior. He quoted a verse saying that Allah's punishment can be seen "throughout the earth":
> 
> "Proceed throughout the earth and observe how was the end of those who denied." [Quran 3:137, Sahih International]
> 
> The sermon was preached at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected dwellings and a school and which is slated for destruction. The preacher was filmed from behind and his face was not visible.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hitler was sent by Allah to punish the Jews - PA TV sermon - PMW Bulletins



Arabs-Moslems seem to use their Allah god like some sort of coin operated vending machine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Times reports that a car owned by a Jew who lives in the Kfar HaShiloah (Silwan) neighborhood was attacked by Arab youths with a Molotov cocktail last night.

These sorts of attacks happen literally every day, and they are so prevalent that no one reports them.

(full article online)

60 firebomb attacks every month in Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Adnan's current hunger strike is so under the radar that no one has even updated his Wikipedia page. Islamic Jihad publications will put in an article about him pretty often but Palestinian media as a whole and Arab media altogether are all but ignoring this hunger strike.

The Arab world, and even Palestinians, are getting sick and tired of publicity stunts that give them nothing.

Maybe one day someone will have the bright idea that perhaps negotiating with Israel and being willing to give concessions for peace might be the best thing for Palestinian Arabs.

(full article online)

Even Palestinians now ignore prisoner hunger strikes ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> A preacher on official PA TV taught that Hitler was one of a series of people sent by Allah throughout history to punish the Jews because of their evil behavior, and to teach them a lesson. However, the preacher taught in Friday's sermon, in spite of all these punishments the Jews "have not learned from the events of history," and continue their evil ways.
> 
> The Jews deserve their punishment, he assured his listeners. Their mentality is one of "arrogance... superiority over other people... seclusion." Jews are "planning and systematically working to incite wars and strife in the entire world." Because of this behavior the Jews have been punished. First Allah sent the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the First Temple, then he sent the Roman Titus to destroy the Second Temple, and then Hitler and the kings of Europe, and still the Jews did not learn their lesson:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They didn't learn from what Hitler did to them, and the kings of Europe, and Spain - they didn't learn."
> [Official PA TV, Oct. 19, 2018]
> 
> Seven times in this short excerpt (see below) the unidentified preacher repeated and emphasized his antisemitic message that Jews refuse to learn from Allah's punishments:
> 
> "They didn't learn. They have continued to behave the same way... Those [Jews] have not learned from the events of history."
> 
> The preacher opened his condemnation of the Jews citing a verse from the Quran to prove his point that the Jews' suffering is not coincidental but is a punishment from Allah because of their bad behavior. He quoted a verse saying that Allah's punishment can be seen "throughout the earth":
> 
> "Proceed throughout the earth and observe how was the end of those who denied." [Quran 3:137, Sahih International]
> 
> The sermon was preached at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected dwellings and a school and which is slated for destruction. The preacher was filmed from behind and his face was not visible.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hitler was sent by Allah to punish the Jews - PA TV sermon - PMW Bulletins




Coyote 

THIS HERE is an example of why there is no equivalence between the two sides.


----------



## Hollie

*Sometimes it seems like the world sits idly by while Islamic terrorist misfits and psychopaths are allowed unfettered access to their worst  proclivities. *



*Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis*


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A preacher on official PA TV taught that Hitler was one of a series of people sent by Allah throughout history to punish the Jews because of their evil behavior, and to teach them a lesson. However, the preacher taught in Friday's sermon, in spite of all these punishments the Jews "have not learned from the events of history," and continue their evil ways.
> 
> The Jews deserve their punishment, he assured his listeners. Their mentality is one of "arrogance... superiority over other people... seclusion." Jews are "planning and systematically working to incite wars and strife in the entire world." Because of this behavior the Jews have been punished. First Allah sent the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the First Temple, then he sent the Roman Titus to destroy the Second Temple, and then Hitler and the kings of Europe, and still the Jews did not learn their lesson:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They didn't learn from what Hitler did to them, and the kings of Europe, and Spain - they didn't learn."
> [Official PA TV, Oct. 19, 2018]
> 
> Seven times in this short excerpt (see below) the unidentified preacher repeated and emphasized his antisemitic message that Jews refuse to learn from Allah's punishments:
> 
> "They didn't learn. They have continued to behave the same way... Those [Jews] have not learned from the events of history."
> 
> The preacher opened his condemnation of the Jews citing a verse from the Quran to prove his point that the Jews' suffering is not coincidental but is a punishment from Allah because of their bad behavior. He quoted a verse saying that Allah's punishment can be seen "throughout the earth":
> 
> "Proceed throughout the earth and observe how was the end of those who denied." [Quran 3:137, Sahih International]
> 
> The sermon was preached at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected dwellings and a school and which is slated for destruction. The preacher was filmed from behind and his face was not visible.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hitler was sent by Allah to punish the Jews - PA TV sermon - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> THIS HERE is an example of why there is no equivalence between the two sides.
Click to expand...

There are many hateful preachers out there.  For example we had Christian preachers calling 911 Gods vengeance on homosexuals.  Among the Israeli Jews you had Rabbi Meir Kahabe who preached hate.

Or these...
Prominent Israeli rabbi faces criminal probe over anti-Arab remarks

Israeli police arrest 15 extremist 'anti-assimilation' Jewish activists

The only difference I see is that there is still an active conversation in Israel denouncing such extremes, and less among the Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Only a few days before the law passed, Deputy Secretary of State George McGhee addressed the Senate and told legislators that the regional economic plan included three parts: direct aid to Arab countries, direct aid to Israel, and helping the U.N. coordinate the matter of refugees from Arab countries.

Barda says that this is exactly the idea Kenen was pushing for in the first place.

"UNRWA was established in 1949, started operating in 1950, and in 1960 declared that its work was done. But then, under pressure from Arab countries, it was decided to extend its mandate. It's a unique organization because there is a high commission in the U.N. that deals with refugees from all over the world, and a special authority established to handle only the Palestinian issue. On the other hand, no one established any agency for Jewish refugees in Israel.

"The American aid plan rebalances the historical narrative. The U.S. undertook to pay both sides to put an end to the refugee issue. Israel also played a part in the equation. There was drama the entire time it took to get the aid approved, which was the first U.S. foreign aid to Israel. They were always trying to cut down the amount. This story doesn't exist in history books. In contemporary journalism, it is mentioned offhand. Kenen's archive opened my eyes and let me see the full picture and understand what happened and why it provides us with a lot of armor," Barda says.

(full article online)

The deal that disappeared - Israel Hayom


----------



## Sixties Fan

Revealed: Arab States Wasted Millions of US $ Given to Resettle Refugees


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A preacher on official PA TV taught that Hitler was one of a series of people sent by Allah throughout history to punish the Jews because of their evil behavior, and to teach them a lesson. However, the preacher taught in Friday's sermon, in spite of all these punishments the Jews "have not learned from the events of history," and continue their evil ways.
> 
> The Jews deserve their punishment, he assured his listeners. Their mentality is one of "arrogance... superiority over other people... seclusion." Jews are "planning and systematically working to incite wars and strife in the entire world." Because of this behavior the Jews have been punished. First Allah sent the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the First Temple, then he sent the Roman Titus to destroy the Second Temple, and then Hitler and the kings of Europe, and still the Jews did not learn their lesson:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "They didn't learn from what Hitler did to them, and the kings of Europe, and Spain - they didn't learn."
> [Official PA TV, Oct. 19, 2018]
> 
> Seven times in this short excerpt (see below) the unidentified preacher repeated and emphasized his antisemitic message that Jews refuse to learn from Allah's punishments:
> 
> "They didn't learn. They have continued to behave the same way... Those [Jews] have not learned from the events of history."
> 
> The preacher opened his condemnation of the Jews citing a verse from the Quran to prove his point that the Jews' suffering is not coincidental but is a punishment from Allah because of their bad behavior. He quoted a verse saying that Allah's punishment can be seen "throughout the earth":
> 
> "Proceed throughout the earth and observe how was the end of those who denied." [Quran 3:137, Sahih International]
> 
> The sermon was preached at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected dwellings and a school and which is slated for destruction. The preacher was filmed from behind and his face was not visible.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hitler was sent by Allah to punish the Jews - PA TV sermon - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> THIS HERE is an example of why there is no equivalence between the two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many hateful preachers out there.  For example we had Christian preachers calling 911 Gods vengeance on homosexuals.  Among the Israeli Jews you had Rabbi Meir Kahabe who preached hate.
> 
> Or these...
> Prominent Israeli rabbi faces criminal probe over anti-Arab remarks
> 
> Israeli police arrest 15 extremist 'anti-assimilation' Jewish activists
> 
> The only difference I see is that there is still an active conversation in Israel denouncing such extremes, and less among the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Thank you for proving my point.  You really don't see a difference between claiming that the Jews haven't "learned their lesson" through thousands of years of genocide that reduced their numbers to tiny fractions of what they should be as a direct result of their evil Jewish ways AND some sort of vague 'anti-Arab" remarks which aren't even detailed in the article posted?  

You don't see a difference between those ideals being ACCEPTED in society AND those concepts being loudly and consistently renounced, policed and criminalized internally?


----------



## Shusha

An lets talk more about equivalence here:

Only Jews can pray or worship on the Temple Mount.
All mosques in Israel are destroyed.
All Arabs in Israel are removed.
No Arabs are considered refugees.
It is illegal to sell property to Arabs.
Arabs deserve thousands of years of genocide.
Al Aqsa is a Jewish heritage site.


----------



## Hollie

Memri has a clip of some of the islams best and brightest doing what the islams best and brightest do; ranting about Jews. 

If only these retrogrades spent one-tenth the time trying to improve themselves as they do obsessing over Jews...... 


"During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Autho..."

View Transcript Page
"Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler"


----------



## Sixties Fan

I find it interesting that they didn't quote one of their Middle East directors like Sarah Leah Whitson, but Tom Porteus, who works in Washington. It gives the impression that there was a push from the non-MENA sections of HRW to stop being so obviously and obsessively anti-Israel.

The head researcher, Omar Shakir, is indeed very anti-Israel but this report is generally not bad. Research that should be done by journalists is suppressed exactly because the PA and Hamas will arrest and beat journalists who don't toe the party line, so this is a rare case where HRW can actually do some good in the region.

The level of silencing by the Palestinian leaders is something that simply does not get reported enough, except that Hamas will report on PA abuses and vice versa. But it goes beyond that - ordinary people are silenced and threatened for complaining about their government, even to protest against electricity cuts or the like.

And the things that the West accuses Israel of are all things done routinely by the PA and Hamas - without any outrage. Here's only a tiny example of how the PA and Hamas routinely monitor and arrest students:

(full article online)

New HRW report about PA and Hamas abuses not bad - but still attacks Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Memri has a clip of some of the islams best and brightest doing what the islams best and brightest do; ranting about Jews.
> 
> If only these retrogrades spent one-tenth the time trying to improve themselves as they do obsessing over Jews......
> 
> 
> "During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Autho..."
> 
> View Transcript Page
> "Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler"


Amazing how all of a sudden they recognize Israel's long history in the land.


----------



## Mindful

The Saudi government says they have given the Palestinians $6 billion in aid since the year 2000. So Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has good reason publicly to declare his support for Saudi Arabia in the standoff with the rest of the world over the Jamal Khashoggi affair. Pictured: Abbas presents Saudi King Salman bin Abdel Aziz with a gift on December 30, 2015 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. (Photo by Thaer Ghanaim/Palestinian Press Office via Getty Images)

They could use some of that money to construct a desalination plant in Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Memri has a clip of some of the islams best and brightest doing what the islams best and brightest do; ranting about Jews.
> 
> If only these retrogrades spent one-tenth the time trying to improve themselves as they do obsessing over Jews......
> 
> 
> "During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Autho..."
> 
> View Transcript Page
> "Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler"




Using past genocides to justify new ones. It's a whole other level of evil. 

And we are supposed to make peace with these people?  How?  How do you make peace with a people who believe that Jews deserve to be wiped out?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas to Shin Bet Chief: If You Deduct Terrorists’ Salaries We’ll Cut Security Coordination


----------



## member

Mindful said:


> The Saudi government says they have given the Palestinians $6 billion in aid since the year 2000. So Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has good reason publicly to declare his support for Saudi Arabia in the standoff with the rest of the world over the Jamal Khashoggi affair. Pictured: Abbas presents Saudi King Salman bin Abdel Aziz with a gift on December 30, 2015 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. (Photo by Thaer Ghanaim/Palestinian Press Office via Getty Images)
> 
> They could use some of that money to construct a desalination plant in Gaza.








*“Who are the Palestinians:”*


Yo, 

 _ova here_:








_6 beelllion my goood man?_



Mo’money, mo’ money, _MO’money_














_here ya go....._








 Money, Money, money, money - _free_ Moneyyyyyy









​






​











https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcrppevM46Q
​

*“Who are the Palestinians:”*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Paying to slay Jews is “social welfare” (says Palestinian UN rep)


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Mahmoud Abbas was busy praising the Saudis for their "justice, values and principles," the London-based Action Group for Palestinians of Syria issued a statement in which it accused the Saudi authorities of preventing Palestinian refugees from entering the kingdom.


Many Arabs and Muslims can hardly afford to alienate a country as rich as Saudi Arabia. This is a good example of "money talks." However, this does not mean that the Saudi money will ever change the hearts and minds of Palestinians, especially regarding a peace agreement with Israel.


The mistreatment of Palestinians at the hands of their Arab brethren has never been of concern to Abbas and his leadership. They are silent when Palestinians are killed and expelled from their homes in Syria. They are silent when Palestinians face discrimination and apartheid laws in Lebanon.

(full article online)

Palestinian 'Support' for Saudi Arabia


----------



## Sixties Fan

The suspect also admitted bringing the knife into Israel from Gaza and tossing it aside before his capture.

The military said it intended to return the man to the Gaza Strip on Tuesday.

In recent years, as the humanitarian conditions in the coastal enclave have worsened, Israeli security forces have arrested a number of Palestinians who have fled Gaza in favor of Israeli prisons.

(full article online)

IDF: Gazan tried to get arrested by entering Israel with knife to escape Strip


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Paying to slay Jews is “social welfare” (says Palestinian UN rep)



Wait.  Does that mean the man who was arrested for selling property to Jews (the HORROR!) is getting lifetime payments for his family?


----------



## Sixties Fan

As we see this video fails to provide viewers with any significant background information concerning the violent rioting deliberately initiated, facilitated and executed by Palestinian terror factions in the Gaza Strip which is now in its seventh month. BBC audiences hear nothing of the attacks on Israeli security personnel using real grenades, guns and IEDs, the breaches of the border fence or the arson attacks that have destroyed thousands of acres of farmland and nature reserves in Israel. Neither are they told that the aim of the so-called ‘right of return’ touted by the organisers of this violence is to eradicate the Jewish state.

(full article online)

More context-free ‘Great Return March’ publicity from the BBC


----------



## Sixties Fan

My Right Word: Jordan, Part of Palestine


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> My Right Word: Jordan, Part of Palestine



Indisputable.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...



By leaving them the hell alone.  
They have been able to launch those warheads for decades.  And have not.  They can however read.  If it was my country I would aim them at every nation that threatens to destroy my country.
That would be ALL nations:


> On that day, when* all* the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for *all* the *nations*



It would help if the terrorist Palestinians went back to Egypt and Syria, from whence they came...


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas to Shin Bet Chief: If You Deduct Terrorists’ Salaries We’ll Cut Security Coordination



I gotta admit, there is a part of me that is thinking, "Come on, do it.  Lets make another Gaza."  Its the worst possible thing for the Arab Palestinian people, but they are literally asking for it.  Not figuratively, as in "they deserve it", but literally demanding that terrorism should be supported and that co-operation with Israel concerning terrorism should be ended.  Lets give them what they ask for.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic savages. The eternal victims. Victims of their own incompetence.

PA: North Korea and Palestinians are victims of US - PMW Bulletins

*PA: North Korea and Palestinians are victims of US*

*PA expresses identification and solidarity with North Korea and its human rights violating leader Kim Jong-un*

*Korean official said the connection between North Korean leaders and Palestinian leaders is one of "comrades in arms, who have shared experience over the years"*
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
According to the Palestinian Authority, both the Palestinian people and North Korea are victims of the United States. PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki brought a letter of greetings for North Korean leader Kim Jong-un from PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, when he held high level meetings recently with North Korean leaders. Al-Malki said the letter expressed:
"A message of solidarity with the North Korean *people in similar circumstances, in which international pressure is being applied to our two peoples by the US*."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Sept. 9, 2018]



Here’s something the Arabs-Moslems might want to consider. They need to be treated like children. 

How to Stop Victim Mentality and Thinking in Kids and Teens


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, conspiracy theories and "the blame game" are
tactics used by islamics to sidestep accountability for the misfits they create._ 


A recent Al-Manar TV report on the drug problem in the Gaza Strip claimed that the quantities of narcotic pills and bricks of hashish recently destroyed indicate "that the youth of Gaza are being targeted from several directions." Ashraf Abu Sido, Head of Legal Affairs in the Anti-Drug Unit, said that "global intelligence agencies, like the Israeli occupation, are operating behind the scenes," and General Nasser Sleiman, Head of the Military Courts, said that "the occupation benefits greatly when our youth become addicted." The report aired on October 22, 2018._

"Gaza Authorities Burn Drugs, Point Finger at Israel"


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> As you might expect, conspiracy theories and "the blame game" are
> tactics used by islamics to sidestep accountability for the misfits they create._
> 
> 
> A recent Al-Manar TV report on the drug problem in the Gaza Strip claimed that the quantities of narcotic pills and bricks of hashish recently destroyed indicate "that the youth of Gaza are being targeted from several directions." Ashraf Abu Sido, Head of Legal Affairs in the Anti-Drug Unit, said that "global intelligence agencies, like the Israeli occupation, are operating behind the scenes," and General Nasser Sleiman, Head of the Military Courts, said that "the occupation benefits greatly when our youth become addicted." The report aired on October 22, 2018._
> 
> "Gaza Authorities Burn Drugs, Point Finger at Israel"



Do you know what China does with its Islamics?


----------



## Sixties Fan

His story reveals how disconnected from reality the Arab world is.

In his story, the Israeli Foreign Ministry would organize an international tour for the victim's family family,  launched from the UN headquarters in New York.  They would visit to international and human rights NGOs. 

The fantasy continues where (Jewish) Hollywood will produce a movie about her, and the Zionist lobby will push the movie to become a megahit.  The film would receive an Oscar, and so the world will know who about the Israeli woman killed by the Palestinians. 




Of course, in reality quite a few Jews have been killed by Palestinian stones. These include Esther Ohana, 21.

Ohana was going to be married a week later.

No Hollywood movies were produced about Ohana's life.

Nor were movies made about Adele Biton or Yonatan Palmer or Yehuda Shoham, all of them killed when they were babies.

But Arabs seem to know that Hollywood creates films at the pleasure of the Israeli government.

(full article online)

Bizarre Arab op-ed says if Israeli Jews are killed by stones, they get Hollywood movies about them ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Imitating Jordan is the sincerest form of...... ]

A top Palestine Liberation Organization body will be reviewing agreements that the Palestinians had concluded with Israel, and could decide to abrogate many of them, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said in a television interview.

Abbas made the comments days before the Palestinian Central Council, a PLO decision-making body, is expected to convene in Ramallah on October 28 and 29.

(full article online)

Abbas: PLO to review agreements with Israel, could abrogate many of them


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Violates Oslo Accords in East Jerusalem


----------



## Hollie

Because she is as dumb as a rock, she's the perfect spokes-burqa to babble incoherently on behalf of Ummah'istan.


_"Speaking during a panel titled "Unapologetically Muslim" at an event held by the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), British journalist and Al-Jazeera TV host Mehdi Hasan said that complicated political issues require different strategies and that "we will need Linda [Sarsour] in the corridors of Congress, maybe being pulled out by Capitol police." Linda Sarsour said that American Muslims are complicit in the murder of Palestinian protestors and questioned the faith of Muslims who debate the issue of Palestine and try to defend or "humanize the oppressor." Speaking about police violence, Linda said: "I don't want to get into debates with Muslims about what Mike Brown did before he got shot, or what [any] young black person did before he got shot."_


"Political Activist Linda Sarsour Calls to Vote against Ted Cruz, Questions the Faith of Muslims who Defend the Police, Says: I Don't Care What Any Black Person Did Before Getting Shot"



Just stunningly ignorant.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Former Islamic extremist just destroyed Jeremy Corbyn


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Because she is as dumb as a rock, she's the perfect spokes-burqa to babble incoherently on behalf of Ummah'istan.
> 
> 
> _"Speaking during a panel titled "Unapologetically Muslim" at an event held by the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), British journalist and Al-Jazeera TV host Mehdi Hasan said that complicated political issues require different strategies and that "we will need Linda [Sarsour] in the corridors of Congress, maybe being pulled out by Capitol police." Linda Sarsour said that American Muslims are complicit in the murder of Palestinian protestors and questioned the faith of Muslims who debate the issue of Palestine and try to defend or "humanize the oppressor." Speaking about police violence, Linda said: "I don't want to get into debates with Muslims about what Mike Brown did before he got shot, or what [any] young black person did before he got shot."_
> 
> 
> "Political Activist Linda Sarsour Calls to Vote against Ted Cruz, Questions the Faith of Muslims who Defend the Police, Says: I Don't Care What Any Black Person Did Before Getting Shot"
> 
> 
> 
> Just stunningly ignorant.




she's a detriment to the united states of america.  she's very radicalized + she's got that swag talk from the hood. like she's a black rapper.  ...if she's so upset about the palestinians - she would be living there,

 instead of in the good ole usa where she can wear as much makeup as she likes [_obviously_]....




her and her (_shroud-headed_) bed-sty _brother talk_............disturbing......hilarious (and phony), nonetheless...... disturbing.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Memri has a clip of some of the islams best and brightest doing what the islams best and brightest do; ranting about Jews.
> 
> If only these retrogrades spent one-tenth the time trying to improve themselves as they do obsessing over Jews......
> 
> 
> "During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Autho..."
> 
> View Transcript Page
> "Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using past genocides to justify new ones. It's a whole other level of evil.
> 
> And we are supposed to make peace with these people?  How?  How do you make peace with a people who believe that Jews deserve to be wiped out?
Click to expand...


For Israel - Tshuva and firm standing.


----------



## Hollie

More evidence of the debilitating disease called
_Pal’istanian_ _Mentality_™️. 

Symptoms also associated with the disease 
of _The_ _Stupid_™️ are frequently second indicators. 





_In an October 2 interview with the Tunisian Musaique FM radio channel, Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi said that people should slap Israeli soldiers, "regardless of whether they did anything or not" and that it should become a "regular thing." She pledged "to continue on the path of the martyrs" and "to continue to make sacrifices, even sacrificing my life, for the sake of liberating Palestine." A day later, speaking on the Tunisian Nessma TV channel, she rejected the two-state solution, saying: "We, as a generation, will fight for the liberation of Palestine in its entirety."

_
"Palestinian Activist Ahed Tamimi: We Should Always Slap Israeli Soldiers Whether They Did Anything or Not"


----------



## Hollie

So, you need to again prepare yourselves for that queasy, upset stomach that accompanies activities related to the islamic Death Cult. 

The need to breed children, generation after generation of them, only to indoctrinate them with a pathology of hate and a wish to seek glorification with the fascistic infliction of pain and suffering is just despicable. 

*

One of the worst chapters in 
Palestinian schoolbooks
*
The worst chapter in Palestinian schoolbooks - PMW op-ed in JPost - PMW Bulletins

*So if it weren't scary enough for the children 
to be told they have to go out and kill, PA educators teach 
them that "heroes" are willing to fearlessly die as martyrs.*

By Itamar Marcus, Oct. 24, 2018
If you want to know why Palestinian children believe that killing Israelis is model behavior, all you have to do is look at a chapter in one of their schoolbooks. 

PA schoolbooks have been criticized ever since Palestinian Media Watch wrote the first report on them in 1998, and the newest books in some respects are the worst ever. However, one chapter stands out in its overt promotion of terrorism. This chapter, appearing in the fifth-grade Arabic Language book published in 2017, serves as a window to understanding the PA leadership's profoundly twisted values.
The chapter starts innocently by stressing the importance of heroes to national identity and national pride: "Heroes have an important position in every nation... the people - even if they are divided over many things - they all agree regarding the pride in their heroes..."

The schoolbook continues and teaches students that feeling pride is not enough. Society takes numerous active steps to honor its heroes: "[We] sing their praise, learn the history of their lives, name our children after them, and name streets, squares, and prominent cultural sites after them..."

In short, society assures that heroes are never forgotten. They might have lived in earlier times, but by naming streets and squares after them and singing their praise, these heroes remain in Palestinian consciousness.


----------



## Sixties Fan

At this point, we know a lot about Ahlam Tamimi. Here's how she herself details the central role she took in the 2001 *Sbarro* pizzeria massacre:

_Interviewer_: "Who chose Sbarro [restaurant, as the target of the attack]?"

 Ahlam Tamimi: "I did. For nine days I examined the place very carefully and chose it after seeing the large number of patrons at the Sbarro restaurant. My mission was just to choose the place and to bring the martyrdom-seeker (i.e. the human bomb, a young man called Al-Masri). [I made] the general plan of the operation but carrying it out was entrusted to the martyrdom-seeker."

Ahlam Tamimi: "I told him to enter the restaurant, eat a meal, and then after 15 minutes carry out the martyrdom-seeking operation. My job was to realize, for this martyrdom-seeker, the happy life that he wanted."
_
Interviewer_: "Didn't you think about the people who were in the restaurant? The children? The families?" Ahlam Tamimi: "No." 
_
Interviewer_: "Do you know how many children were killed in the restaurant?" Ahlam Tamimi: "Three children were killed in the operation, I think." _Interviewer_: "Eight."

Ahlam Tamimi (smiling): "Eight? Eight!"

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 23-Oct-18: She admits she planned the Sbarro massacre. But for parts of the media, Ahlam Tamimi remains 'an accomplice'


----------



## Sixties Fan

As in many autocratic nations, there is an official Palestinian news agency, Wafa. The writers are anonymous but are certainly on the PA payroll - paid by the governments of the world.

They regularly write what they are paid to write, much of which are anti-Israel screeds.. They talk about "the occupation" and "Jewish extremists" and "Jewish fanatics"  who want to visit holy sites and the articles fawn over the wonderful leadership of Mahmoud Abbas and his cronies.

There are no bylines. There is no way to write a letter to the editor. There are no means to correct errors.

No one would consider this to be journalism - it is pure naked propaganda.

To the tune of dozens of articles every day.

Palestinian newspapers and news sites regularly reprint Wafa articles verbatim. They treat the propaganda factory the way American newspapers treat Reuters. Everyone knows it is propaganda - except for the audience.

(full article online)

Wafa: The Palestinian propaganda factory ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian deputy PM threatens violence and terror forever unless Israel surrenders Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Memri has a clip of some of the islams best and brightest doing what the islams best and brightest do; ranting about Jews.
> 
> If only these retrogrades spent one-tenth the time trying to improve themselves as they do obsessing over Jews......
> 
> 
> "During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Autho..."
> 
> View Transcript Page
> "Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using past genocides to justify new ones. It's a whole other level of evil.
> 
> And we are supposed to make peace with these people?  How?  How do you make peace with a people who believe that Jews deserve to be wiped out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For Israel - Tshuva and firm standing.
Click to expand...



Is that a legit children's show in Israel?  The pink hat is a little ridiculous.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## member

Hollie said:


> More evidence of the debilitating disease called
> _Pal’istanian_ _Mentality_™️.
> 
> Symptoms also associated with the disease
> of _The_ _Stupid_™️ are frequently second indicators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _In an October 2 interview with the Tunisian Musaique FM radio channel, Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi said that people should slap Israeli soldiers, "regardless of whether they did anything or not" and that it should become a "regular thing." She pledged "to continue on the path of the martyrs" and "to continue to make sacrifices, even sacrificing my life, for the sake of liberating Palestine." A day later, speaking on the Tunisian Nessma TV channel, she rejected the two-state solution, saying: "We, as a generation, will fight for the liberation of Palestine in its entirety."
> 
> _
> "Palestinian Activist Ahed Tamimi: We Should Always Slap Israeli Soldiers Whether They Did Anything or Not"






*"She [Tamimi] pledged "to continue on the path of the martyrs" and "to continue to make sacrifices, even sacrificing my life, for the sake of liberating Palestine"*






has anybody seen her lately at the border ?  hmm, the face was covered, but maybe it was her holding that tennis racket in tinmore's jihadi video clip?



well.....she sounds like linda _sansour and_:


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Memri has a clip of some of the islams best and brightest doing what the islams best and brightest do; ranting about Jews.
> 
> If only these retrogrades spent one-tenth the time trying to improve themselves as they do obsessing over Jews......
> 
> 
> "During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Autho..."
> 
> View Transcript Page
> "Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using past genocides to justify new ones. It's a whole other level of evil.
> 
> And we are supposed to make peace with these people?  How?  How do you make peace with a people who believe that Jews deserve to be wiped out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For Israel - Tshuva and firm standing.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a legit children's show in Israel?  The pink hat is a little ridiculous.
Click to expand...


It's in every Israeli house with a TV... Aren't ridiculous costumes a part of the show for kids under 5? What can I say, probably that huge hat fits well with her shoes from Purim.

We don't have a tv, but the channel looks nice, from a quick review Shabat songs and other Jewish themes appear at the top.


----------



## Sixties Fan

After naming the 10 heroes, the PA schoolbook stresses that there is no one better than these fighters: “These heroes are the crown of their nation, they are a symbol of its glory, they are the best of the best, the best of the noble people.”

That’s not all that is horrific. Mughrabi was killed during her terrorist attack and others on the list were killed in battle. The PA schoolbook focuses on their deaths and glorifies their willingness to die: “They took their lives in their hands and threw them at the dangers, without losing their determination and without weakening and surrendering. Some of them died as martyrs, some of them died on the way to fulfilling their obligations, as heroes.”

So if it weren’t scary enough for the children to be told they have to go out and kill, PA educators teach them that “heroes” are willing to fearlessly die as martyrs. The final sentence of the chapter they are taught what this means for them if they don’t want to adopt this heroic behavior: “Bravo to the heroes, and scorn to the cowards!”

Tragically, presenting Dalal Mughrabi as a hero and role model is not accidental or in isolation but is part of a broad almost cult-like worship of Mughrabi directed by the Palestinian Authority. The PA Ministry of Education has named five schools as well as sporting events after Mughrabi. City squares and community centers bear her name. Videos with her picture and story are produced and appear regularly on Fatah and PA media channels. Every year on the dates surrounding her mass murder Fatah and the PA make sure her name and face appear regularly up in lights. There was a march in Bethlehem to celebrate the founding of Fatah and three giant posters led the parade. Two posters had pictures of Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas – internationally known and recognized leaders of Fatah and the PA. The third poster had the picture of Dalal Mughrabi. Dalal Mughrabi was not a leader. She was a terrorist murderer who did one thing in life to make her famous. And yet she completes the PA trinity with the PA leaders.

(full article online)

One of the worst chapters in Palestinian schoolbooks


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas on Saturday demanded that Israel transfer the Gaza-based terror group $15 million in cash from Qatar every month in order to prevent further escalation in the Palestinian enclave.

In a document handed to Egypt, the terror group’s Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar added that the organization expects Israel to transfer the money by next Thursday, Hadashot TV reported.

(full article online)

Hamas demands $15 million per month in exchange for calm — report


----------



## Hollie

The wondrous Arab-Moslem social order. It’s defined by crime, cruelty and welfare fraud. 
*

When Plane Hijackings Were Palestinian Terrorists' Weapon of Choice *
The hijacking of an EgyptAir aircraft to Cyprus recalls a previous era when hijackings were a regular occurrence.

When plane hijackings were Palestinian terrorists' weapon of choice

The 1960s and 1970s saw a large number of hijackings carried out by Palestinian terrorist groups. El Al Israel Airlines quickly developed a reputation for its stringent airline safety. The first and last successful hijacking of an El Al aircraft took place in 1968.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians fret over ‘normalization’ of Arab-Israeli ties


----------



## rylah

*Netanyahu's visit to Oman: Palestinians are very concerned about normalization of Arab states with Israel*

Palestinian sources said today that they are concerned about the growing growth of "Arab normalization" with Israel following Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to Oman and the participation of Israeli sports delegations in Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. "

There is an unprecedented Arab flow of normalization of relations with Israel," Palestinian Legislative Council deputy chairman Hassan Kharisha said in a press release. "This influx is caused by Arab leaders who are afraid of their seats and know that relations with the occupation are the gateway to the Americans." Khreisha also said that Oman "wants to improve America's image in order to push President Mahmoud Abbas back to negotiations with Israel."







Fatah Central Committee member Muhammad Shathia issued a short statement saying that "the stage of public normalization has begun and the Arab peace initiative has ended, and the system of values and the Arab political and social contract have been broken."

There were also criticisms of the visit of an Israeli sports delegation to the gymnastics games in Qatar and the visit of Minister of Culture and Sports Miri Regev, in the United Arab Emirates.

(AlQuds Al'Arabi, AFP)





(Israeli Culture and Sport Minister Miri Regev, with Mohamed Bin Tha'loob Al Derai, President of UAE Wrestling Judo & Kickboxing Federation - AP Photo/Kamran Jebreili)


----------



## Sixties Fan

Am I wrong or is there a blanket of terrible silence in the Western media about the Human Rights Watch new unprecedented report about the Palestinian torture?

Human Rights Watch has shed light on how the Palestinian Arabs are slaughtering each other: “Torture is the government policy of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority,” says the report. 

They reveal in detail what the Palestinian Arabs are doing to opponents and critics. “In the 25 years since Palestinians gained a degree of self-rule over the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, their authorities have established machineries of repression to crush dissent, including through the use of torture” the report continues chillingly.

This report is the result of a two-year investigation by Human Rights Watch and it draws on 86 cases in the West Bank and Gaza. “The report shows that Palestinian authorities routinely arrest people whose peaceful speech displeases them and torture those in their custody.” In one case, “they slapped him (a prisoner, g.m.), slammed his body against the wall, and held him by the neck, threatening to hit him with a plastic hose, and putting him in painful stress positions and subjecting him to _shabeh_ or positional torture”.

Where are the famous “Friends of Palestine”? Is this torture also the fault of Israel? Is it Israel that causes the Palestinian Arabs to torture each other?

(full article online)

A conspiracy of silence on Palestinian Arab torture


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinian Arabs.  The pathetic group of Arabs who use their need to destroy Israel as a way to make the world see them as "victims" of Israel and Jews ]


Hamas: Pittsburgh synagogue massacre ‘proves terror has no religion’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Consider this part of the Palestinian terrorist “work accident” series.

A “work accident” is a commonly used term to refer to Palestinian terrorists who die by their own hand when explosives or explosive devices they are handling detonate prematurely. We have covered many such incidents.



Senior Hamas terrorist Imad al-Alami *accidentally* shoots himself in the head
Hamas explosives chief accidentally blows himself up
Palestinian rocket commander ‘accidentally’ blows himself up
Hamas terrorist killed when attack tunnel collapses on him
Gaza: Two PFLP terrorists killed when rocket they were firing exploded prematurely
Hamas Bomb Expert Blows Himself Up
We appear to have another member of the club, during Hamas-led attempts to breach the Gaza border.


(full article online)

Hamas Commander killed at Gaza border when 'hand grenade' exploded prematurely


----------



## Sixties Fan

Haaretz: Outrage Over Pittsburgh Massacre from Rivlin, Herzog, Bennett and . . . Sarsour | CAMERA


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Haaretz: Outrage Over Pittsburgh Massacre from Rivlin, Herzog, Bennett and . . . Sarsour | CAMERA



I think it's a typo. She really said, "Sending love to our termite family".


----------



## Hollie

*Attention: Fatwa Alert!*

The Fatwa Capos are on alert, capisce?

Fatah supports Islamic edict prohibiting land sales to "enemies" - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah supports Islamic edict  
prohibiting land sales to "enemies"*


*Those who sell land to "the occupation" are "the occupation's contemptible agents" and "bats of the night"*

*PA's Fatwa Council: The land is "Islamic property," whoever sells it "has sold his soul to the devil," and "must be fought against at all levels"*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Abbas' Fatah Movement endorses the PA's fatwa, or religious edict, prohibiting the transfer or selling of land to Israelis/Jews and encourages Palestinians not to violate it.

Fatah has announced that selling land to Israelis/Jews constitutes "high treason against the religion, the homeland, and the people." Thereby the movement repeats the PA Mufti's ban on selling land documented by Palestinian Media Watch. Fatah, which is supposedly a secular movement, also used religious language, warning that violating this prohibition would even have implications after death, in "the world to come":

"The Fatah Movement emphasized that the sale of properties and lands to the occupation or their illegal transfer to dubious sources constitutes high treason against the religion, the homeland, and the people, and that 'whoever does this decrees upon himself shame and disgrace in this world and in the world to come.'"
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 14, 2018]


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO Central Council in Ramallah earlier on Monday decided to cancel recognition of Israel until it recognized a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders with eastern Jerusalem as its capital.

The Council, which is headed by Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas, stated that "this decision was made in light of Israel's continued denial of the signed agreements." It was also decided to revoke the validity of the Oslo Accords.

While the PLO never upheld its pledge to remove the clauses from its national covenant which delegitimize the Jewish state and endorse an armed struggle against it, the 1993 Letters of Mutual Recognition exchanged between Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO chief Yasser Arafat formed the basis for Israel’s acceptance of the PA establishment and operation in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza.

(full article online)

Bennett: The charade has ended


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Yeah, no one really expected the word of an Arab Palestinian to be its own bond for any length of time.



			
				Convention on Rights and Duties of States 1933 said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 6*
> The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. *Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.*
> 
> *ARTICLE 7*
> *The recognition of a state may be express or tacit.* The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.





Sixties Fan said:


> The PLO Central Council in Ramallah earlier on Monday decided to cancel recognition of Israel until it recognized a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders with eastern Jerusalem as its capital.
> 
> The Council, which is headed by Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas, stated that "this decision was made in light of Israel's continued denial of the signed agreements." It was also decided to revoke the validity of the Oslo Accords.
> 
> While the PLO never upheld its pledge to remove the clauses from its national covenant which delegitimize the Jewish state and endorse an armed struggle against it, the 1993 Letters of Mutual Recognition exchanged between Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO chief Yasser Arafat formed the basis for Israel’s acceptance of the PA establishment and operation in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bennett: The charade has ended


*(COMMENT)*

*IF* the recognition or the agreement was legally adopted in compliance with the law *THEN* what is the point of withdrawal?  

Exactly what is the point of the exercise?  The intent of the action and the consequences are not clear.

The move does not really wipe-out the history of the establishment of Areas "A, B, and C."   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> Yeah, no one really expected the word of an Arab Palestinian to be its own bond for any length of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convention on Rights and Duties of States 1933 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 6*
> The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. *Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.*
> 
> *ARTICLE 7*
> *The recognition of a state may be express or tacit.* The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO Central Council in Ramallah earlier on Monday decided to cancel recognition of Israel until it recognized a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders with eastern Jerusalem as its capital.
> 
> The Council, which is headed by Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas, stated that "this decision was made in light of Israel's continued denial of the signed agreements." It was also decided to revoke the validity of the Oslo Accords.
> 
> While the PLO never upheld its pledge to remove the clauses from its national covenant which delegitimize the Jewish state and endorse an armed struggle against it, the 1993 Letters of Mutual Recognition exchanged between Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO chief Yasser Arafat formed the basis for Israel’s acceptance of the PA establishment and operation in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Bennett: The charade has ended
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* the recognition or the agreement was legally adopted in compliance with the law *THEN* what is the point of withdrawal?
> 
> Exactly what is the point of the exercise?  The intent of the action and the consequences are not clear.
> 
> The move does not really wipe-out the history of the establishment of Areas "A, B, and C."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The recognition was a part of the defunct Oslo accords.


----------



## Hollie

“Angry Mahmoud” is having another episode. 

"Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas: We Will Continue to Pay The Families Of Martyrs, Prisoners, And The Wounded; There Are Six Million Palestinian Refugees" 

October 28, 2018
Clip No. 
6817
*Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas: We Will Continue to Pay The Families Of Martyrs, Prisoners, And The Wounded; There Are Six Million Palestinian Refugees*



Wow. Six million refugees, huh?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Fatah Platform of 2009 says this explicitly:

 Fatah launched armed struggle, and other methods of legitimate resistance to liberate the homeland. Such a right is recognized by international law as long as the occupation of our land remains.

[T]he Palestinian people’s right to practice armed resistance against the military occupation of their land remains a constant right confirmed by international law and international legality. Right to Resist:Fatah adheres to the right of the Palestinian people to resist the occupation by all legitimate means, including the right to use armed struggle. Such a right is guaranteed by international law as long as the occupation, settlement, and the denial of our inalienable rights continue.
Western pundits need to stop interpreting their words according to their own wishful thinking. Interpret them according to the Palestinian leaders' own thinking.

In this case the same people who run Fatah run the PLO.

It is clear that the PLO is now saying, officially, that terrorism is an option that they embrace.

(full article online)

The PLO just officially said it supports terror. No one noticed. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Hamas has been violating international laws by denying visits or any communication with the Israelis it holds captive, Palestinian terrorists in Israeli prisons continue to enjoy basic rights, including meeting with an attorney, receiving medical treatment, religious rights, basic living conditions (such as hot water, showers and sanitation), proper ventilation and electric infrastructure.


The families of the Palestinian terrorists held in Israeli prisons know where their sons are. They also know that their sons receive proper medical treatment and while away their days reading, exercising and watching TV. But the Israelis held by Hamas can only dream of seeing daylight as they languish in captivity.


The proposed Israeli law is a temporary measure, aimed at forcing Hamas to release information about the Israelis held in the Gaza Strip. There would be no need for the law were Hamas prepared to honor international and humanitarian conventions and allow visits by the Red Cross and other international agencies to the Israelis it is holding.

(full article online)

New Palestinian "Concern" for International Conventions


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah to Arabs in Jerusalem: Boycott today’s Israeli municipal elections - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.

(full article online)

Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Good article, thanks.

The PLC was established by their constitution as an *independent *body. The president has no authority there. The PLC has not functioned since June of 2007. Israel arrested all of the Hamas members of the PLC in the West Bank along with some of the cabinet ministers. Abbas then locked the building. During Cast Lead, Israel bombed the PLC building in Gaza. Note that this creates a problem. The Prime minister and the cabinet must all be approved by the PLC before they can take office. This means that all of the governments in the West Bank since 2007 are not legal. None have had PLC approval.

As a matter of fact, as far as Ramallah is concerned, this body has already finished its life. It has not convened since Hamas captured Gaza, and Fatah “rogue” delegates are arrested despite the fact that they are immune from arrest.

Abbas seeks to terminate the council formally to avoid legal claims by Hamas’ “speaker,” Aziz Dweik, that he is the rightful successor to Mahmoud Abbas in an interim period. Fatah will not let that happen at all costs.​
I have brought this up before. There are specific procedures laid out in their constitution to replace a president. The speaker of the PLC (in this case it would be Dr, Aziz Dweik,) temporarily assumes the office of president and calls elections within 60 days.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Good article, thanks.
> 
> The PLC was established by their constitution as an *independent *body. The president has no authority there. The PLC has not functioned since June of 2007. Israel arrested all of the Hamas members of the PLC in the West Bank along with some of the cabinet ministers. Abbas then locked the building. During Cast Lead, Israel bombed the PLC building in Gaza. Note that this creates a problem. The Prime minister and the cabinet must all be approved by the PLC before they can take office. This means that all of the governments in the West Bank since 2007 are not legal. None have had PLC approval.
> 
> As a matter of fact, as far as Ramallah is concerned, this body has already finished its life. It has not convened since Hamas captured Gaza, and Fatah “rogue” delegates are arrested despite the fact that they are immune from arrest.
> 
> Abbas seeks to terminate the council formally to avoid legal claims by Hamas’ “speaker,” Aziz Dweik, that he is the rightful successor to Mahmoud Abbas in an interim period. Fatah will not let that happen at all costs.​
> I have brought this up before. There are specific procedures laid out in their constitution to replace a president. The speaker of the PLC (in this case it would be Dr, Aziz Dweik,) temporarily assumes the office of president and calls elections within 60 days.
Click to expand...


That long copy and paste is funny. The article laments the fact that islamic terrorist dictators don't follow standards of governance or rules of law that apply in kuffar Western nations.

Theocratic totalitarianism is vastly different from western standards of governance.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Good article, thanks.
> 
> The PLC was established by their constitution as an *independent *body. The president has no authority there. The PLC has not functioned since June of 2007. Israel arrested all of the Hamas members of the PLC in the West Bank along with some of the cabinet ministers. Abbas then locked the building. During Cast Lead, Israel bombed the PLC building in Gaza. Note that this creates a problem. The Prime minister and the cabinet must all be approved by the PLC before they can take office. This means that all of the governments in the West Bank since 2007 are not legal. None have had PLC approval.
> 
> As a matter of fact, as far as Ramallah is concerned, this body has already finished its life. It has not convened since Hamas captured Gaza, and Fatah “rogue” delegates are arrested despite the fact that they are immune from arrest.
> 
> Abbas seeks to terminate the council formally to avoid legal claims by Hamas’ “speaker,” Aziz Dweik, that he is the rightful successor to Mahmoud Abbas in an interim period. Fatah will not let that happen at all costs.​
> I have brought this up before. There are specific procedures laid out in their constitution to replace a president. The speaker of the PLC (in this case it would be Dr, Aziz Dweik,) temporarily assumes the office of president and calls elections within 60 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long copy and paste is funny. The article laments the fact that islamic terrorist dictators don't follow standards of governance or rules of law that apply in kuffar Western nations.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is vastly different from western standards of governance.
Click to expand...

Dumb post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Good article, thanks.
> 
> The PLC was established by their constitution as an *independent *body. The president has no authority there. The PLC has not functioned since June of 2007. Israel arrested all of the Hamas members of the PLC in the West Bank along with some of the cabinet ministers. Abbas then locked the building. During Cast Lead, Israel bombed the PLC building in Gaza. Note that this creates a problem. The Prime minister and the cabinet must all be approved by the PLC before they can take office. This means that all of the governments in the West Bank since 2007 are not legal. None have had PLC approval.
> 
> As a matter of fact, as far as Ramallah is concerned, this body has already finished its life. It has not convened since Hamas captured Gaza, and Fatah “rogue” delegates are arrested despite the fact that they are immune from arrest.
> 
> Abbas seeks to terminate the council formally to avoid legal claims by Hamas’ “speaker,” Aziz Dweik, that he is the rightful successor to Mahmoud Abbas in an interim period. Fatah will not let that happen at all costs.​
> I have brought this up before. There are specific procedures laid out in their constitution to replace a president. The speaker of the PLC (in this case it would be Dr, Aziz Dweik,) temporarily assumes the office of president and calls elections within 60 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long copy and paste is funny. The article laments the fact that islamic terrorist dictators don't follow standards of governance or rules of law that apply in kuffar Western nations.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is vastly different from western standards of governance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dumb post.
Click to expand...


Dumb copy and paste without attribution.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Good article, thanks.
> 
> The PLC was established by their constitution as an *independent *body. The president has no authority there. The PLC has not functioned since June of 2007. Israel arrested all of the Hamas members of the PLC in the West Bank along with some of the cabinet ministers. Abbas then locked the building. During Cast Lead, Israel bombed the PLC building in Gaza. Note that this creates a problem. The Prime minister and the cabinet must all be approved by the PLC before they can take office. This means that all of the governments in the West Bank since 2007 are not legal. None have had PLC approval.
> 
> As a matter of fact, as far as Ramallah is concerned, this body has already finished its life. It has not convened since Hamas captured Gaza, and Fatah “rogue” delegates are arrested despite the fact that they are immune from arrest.
> 
> Abbas seeks to terminate the council formally to avoid legal claims by Hamas’ “speaker,” Aziz Dweik, that he is the rightful successor to Mahmoud Abbas in an interim period. Fatah will not let that happen at all costs.​
> I have brought this up before. There are specific procedures laid out in their constitution to replace a president. The speaker of the PLC (in this case it would be Dr, Aziz Dweik,) temporarily assumes the office of president and calls elections within 60 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long copy and paste is funny. The article laments the fact that islamic terrorist dictators don't follow standards of governance or rules of law that apply in kuffar Western nations.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is vastly different from western standards of governance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dumb post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dumb copy and paste without attribution.
Click to expand...

The link is in the post I quoted.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is getting interesting......]

PA body passes motion suspending all agreements with Israel until it recognizes Palestinian state built on 1967 borders.

(full article online)

End of Oslo? | PA passes motion suspending Israel cooperation


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reports indicate that Mahmoud Abba has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas continues his dictatorship, violating the PLO's own rules (again) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Good article, thanks.
> 
> The PLC was established by their constitution as an *independent *body. The president has no authority there. The PLC has not functioned since June of 2007. Israel arrested all of the Hamas members of the PLC in the West Bank along with some of the cabinet ministers. Abbas then locked the building. During Cast Lead, Israel bombed the PLC building in Gaza. Note that this creates a problem. The Prime minister and the cabinet must all be approved by the PLC before they can take office. This means that all of the governments in the West Bank since 2007 are not legal. None have had PLC approval.
> 
> As a matter of fact, as far as Ramallah is concerned, this body has already finished its life. It has not convened since Hamas captured Gaza, and Fatah “rogue” delegates are arrested despite the fact that they are immune from arrest.
> 
> Abbas seeks to terminate the council formally to avoid legal claims by Hamas’ “speaker,” Aziz Dweik, that he is the rightful successor to Mahmoud Abbas in an interim period. Fatah will not let that happen at all costs.​
> I have brought this up before. There are specific procedures laid out in their constitution to replace a president. The speaker of the PLC (in this case it would be Dr, Aziz Dweik,) temporarily assumes the office of president and calls elections within 60 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long copy and paste is funny. The article laments the fact that islamic terrorist dictators don't follow standards of governance or rules of law that apply in kuffar Western nations.
> 
> Theocratic totalitarianism is vastly different from western standards of governance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dumb post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dumb copy and paste without attribution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The link is in the post I quoted.
Click to expand...


So, all you did was, well, copy and paste. 

Dumb copy and paste. 

I take it you're still flummoxed that islamic terrorist dictators behave like islamic terrorist dictators. 

Shocking, I guess.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [ This is getting interesting......]
> 
> PA body passes motion suspending all agreements with Israel until it recognizes Palestinian state built on 1967 borders.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> End of Oslo? | PA passes motion suspending Israel cooperation



What I don’t understand is do they HONESTLY believe Israel will give up ALL territory including Religious Jewish Sites PLUS “ Right of Return” ??????


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [ This is getting interesting......]
> 
> PA body passes motion suspending all agreements with Israel until it recognizes Palestinian state built on 1967 borders.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> End of Oslo? | PA passes motion suspending Israel cooperation



Mahmoud is playing a dangerous game. I suspect his maneuvering is intended to gain some Islamo-street cred in the face of his humiliating welfare pay cut from the Great Satan. If he appears weak, the rats knawing at his heels may swarm. Abandoning the security arrangement with Israel is a mistake. That arrangement was a calming influence on the more excitable Islamists. It kept them on a short leash and helped to prevent the buffer zone with Egypt from becoming an islamic terrorist free-for-all. Mahmoud would be well served to keep some suitcases stuffed with money close by for a quick exit. Iranian money is likely pouring in to Hamas with the anticipation that they will be poised for a return to an unfinished civil war.


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ This is getting interesting......]
> 
> PA body passes motion suspending all agreements with Israel until it recognizes Palestinian state built on 1967 borders.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> End of Oslo? | PA passes motion suspending Israel cooperation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I don’t understand is do they HONESTLY believe Israel will give up ALL territory including Religious Jewish Sites PLUS “ Right of Return” ??????
Click to expand...


A Cult that willingly raises its children as disposable commodities is not characterized by critical thinkers.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [ This is getting interesting......]
> 
> PA body passes motion suspending all agreements with Israel until it recognizes Palestinian state built on 1967 borders.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> End of Oslo? | PA passes motion suspending Israel cooperation



Have a question; What “ Agreements” did they make and what are they “ honoring?”


----------



## Shusha

Its almost like he WANTS to turn the "West Bank" into another Gaza.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> Its almost like he WANTS to turn the "West Bank" into another Gaza.



I keep on saying; Let them insist on EVERYTHING; they will get NOTHING


----------



## Hollie

The UNRWA welfare fraud. Money for the next generation of the remodeled Hitler Youth.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza running out of medicine for kidney patients. The PA is at fault - but blaming Israel is so much easier. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A screenshot of a “Key Terms and Sources” worksheet from the session, titled “Palestine Without Borders,” has Zionism defined as “the ideology that advocates for the establishment of an exclusively Jewish state that necessitates the wiping out the native Palestinian people from their homeland.”

The worksheet goes on to define white supremacy as the “establishment of white dominant empires all over the world from the U.S. to Israel,” adding that Israel is trying to uphold a majority of “white Jewish people.” The worksheet also listed Israel as examples implementing apartheid and “settler colonialism”; the latter was defined as the “type of colonialism materializes through the occupation of a land by completely uprooting and displacing the native population.”

Nofar Salman, an Israel fellow at the Houston Hillel, posted on Facebook, “SJP is targeting the Jewish students on campus and we will NOT be victims of anti-Semitism and twisted lies.”




Shabbat Shalom Y’all. 
A lot of people have suggested to me not to post the anti-Semitic incidents that happen on our campus. They claim that sharing these events “gives them more publicity”. Yet to the people creating these anti-Semitic events, I’m saying: We are not scared of your lies and accusations. We will not be shut down. We will keep our head high with pride because truth and justice are on our side.

SJP is targeting the Jewish students on campus and we will NOT be victims of anti semitism and twisted lies. 

We are choosing #LoveOVERHate

StandWithUs Condemns Anti-Semitic Session at United We Dream Conference


(full article online)

SJP Worksheet Accuses Zionists of ‘Wiping Out’ Palestinians


----------



## Mindful

*Rod:* Sometimes I wonder if the PA would spend as much energy focusing its people on the prosperity of their local community, municipalities and governance there wouldn't be half the problems we have here. It seems their principal interest to keep people in a state of chaos. Do you agree or not?
*
Dan: *I think that is true, Rod. One of the major misunderstandings in the international community has been that the Palestinian government is not interested in advancing what America understands as the traditional Democratic rights of its citizens. They are only interested as a non-Democratic terrorist kleptocracy in maintaining as much power and control at the top of the pyramid as they can. This corrupt ongoing policy of abrogation of human rights of Palestinians—never mind of Israelis—has been what has driven Palestinians away from its own leadership and towards much deeper cooperation with Israel.

Federated Palestine Sovereign Entity as a Pathway to Peace


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Rod:* Sometimes I wonder if the PA would spend as much energy focusing its people on the prosperity of their local community, municipalities and governance there wouldn't be half the problems we have here. It seems their principal interest to keep people in a state of chaos. Do you agree or not?
> *
> Dan: *I think that is true, Rod. One of the major misunderstandings in the international community has been that the Palestinian government is not interested in advancing what America understands as the traditional Democratic rights of its citizens. They are only interested as a non-Democratic terrorist kleptocracy in maintaining as much power and control at the top of the pyramid as they can. This corrupt ongoing policy of abrogation of human rights of Palestinians—never mind of Israelis—has been what has driven Palestinians away from its own leadership and towards much deeper cooperation with Israel.
> 
> Federated Palestine Sovereign Entity as a Pathway to Peace


----------



## Hollie

Abbas: ‘We will continue to pay the families of martyrs, prisoners and wounded’

Hero of the Death Cult.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Touching a Martyr" is worth street credit if you're a kid in the Palestinian Authority. Kids want to touch the dead body so they can "brag to their friends" about it, according to the official PA daily.

Referring to the "images that remain" when "parting from the Martyrs," the paper described: 
"A boy is hanging out the window of a room and watching the parting from the Martyr... He comes out quickly and tries to touch the head of the Martyr. He wants to reach the glory in order to brag to his friends that he touched a Martyr..."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 2, 2018]

Palestinian Media Watch has reported in the past on this cult-like behavior towards "Martyrs", which the Palestinian Authority promotes and glorifies.

Not only does the "Martyr's" "glory" rub off on you if you touch him, but the Martyr is also believed to be "a groom" on his way to his wedding to the 72 Virgins in Paradise: 

"When the body of the Martyr reached his home, his closest friend Ata looked for the Martyr's mother and shouted: 'We have brought you the groom; we have brought you the groom.'"
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 2, 2018]

According to Islamic belief, a "Martyr" marries 72 Dark-Eyed Virgins in Paradise. Therefore a "Martyr's" funeral is considered a "wedding." Palestinian religious leaders have repeatedly explained that becoming a "Martyr" represents the highest achievement that can be attained by a Muslim. 

This cult-like Martyr worship by the PA has been going on for years. Palestinian children were taught to glorify Martyrs _(Shahids)_ during the PA's 5-year terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005). The PA reported at the time that the children would play "the _Shahid_ Game" and argue over who gets to play the best part and die as a "Martyr": 

"A seven year old girl says to her friends: 'Let's play the _Shahid_ (Martyr) Game!' The children... argue who will play the _Shahid_. Fa'iz, 6 years old, says: 'You were the _Shahid_ yesterday, today it's my turn! I'm younger than you. I'll be the one to die!'"
[Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 26, 2001

(full article online)

Touch the dead "Martyr" and brag to your friends - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Work accident! Hamas terrorist blows himself up ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gulf states ignore Palestinian demand to stop normalization with Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> Gulf states ignore Palestinian demand to stop normalization with Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



They can shout “ Right of Return “ till they drop dead. Israel is approximately the size of NewJersey which has approx 9 Million Residents. Israel has 8.5 Million . For that reason alone ( forget the others) do they HONESTLY believe they have a shot at this?


----------



## Sixties Fan

_The Washington Post_ is finally covering the systematic violations of human rights by the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas. In an Oct. 23, 2018 dispatch, _Post_ reporters Ruth Eglash and Sufian Taha noted “the extreme lengths to which the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in the Gaza Strip go to curb dissenting voices.” The newspaper highlighted a Human Rights Watch (HRW) report that was released Oct. 23, 2018 about “Palestinian leadership’s persecution of journalists and activists.”

_The Post’s_ decision to note the repressive tactics of Palestinian officials should be commended; as CAMERA detailed in a June 29, 2018 Op-Ed, many Western media outlets fail to cover such abuses (“The Media is Not Pro-Palestinian, Just Anti-Israel,” _The Daily Caller_).

The newspaper pointed out that HRW’s report listed more than 80 cases of torture and arbitrary arrests—“some for nothing more than writing a critical article or Facebook post.” Both Hamas and the PA downplayed the report as consisting largely “of isolated cases,” _The Post_ said. However, this is false.

(full article online )

The Washington Post Covers Human Rights Abuses Committed by Palestinian Officials | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Roots Project: A pillar of the Fayyad plan and the newest expression of Palestinian intentions


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nazareth’s Voters Overwhelmingly Reject Pro-Palestinian Block


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pompano Beach, Florida Friday Sermon By Imam Hasan Sabri: Palestine Must Be Liberated 'Even If This Leads To The Martyrdom Of Tens Of Millions Of Muslims'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Roots Project: A pillar of the Fayyad plan and the newest expression of Palestinian intentions


The Palestinians building in Palestine?

Oh the nerve.

Keep playing those terrorist cards though.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Roots Project: A pillar of the Fayyad plan and the newest expression of Palestinian intentions
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians building in Palestine?
> 
> Oh the nerve.
> 
> Keep playing those terrorist cards though.
Click to expand...

Priceless answer from Tinmore who lives, allegedly, in the Midwest of the USA and cannot see anything happening in the area referred to....not even via google Earth


----------



## Hollie

In accordance with the insensate Jew hatreds espoused within Islamic ideology as delineated in the hate and war manual otherwise known as the Koran, those eternally angry, eternally aggrieved, eternally retrograde Islamics are preaching to their choir.

"Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler" 


*Friday Sermon at Khan Al-Ahmar on PA TV: Israeli Government Has Not Learned the Lessons from Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, and Hitler *
_

During an October 19 Friday sermon delivered at the village of Khan Al-Ahmar in the West Bank, the preacher said that the Israeli government had not learned the lessons from history, from "the two times that the Israelites spread corruption upon the land." "They have not learned from what was done to them by Nebuchadnezzar... by the great Roman leader Titus... by Hitler," he said, warning that "the logic of history will repeat itself once again." The sermon was broadcast by the Palestinian Authority's TV channel._


----------



## Sixties Fan

A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream


I knew that.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒* 



			
				Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
			
		

> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |





Sixties Fan said:


> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream


*(COMMENT)*

This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

They don't know much about the train, but they are sure of one thing: their human rights are being violated, somehow.

"Villagers fear they may lose access to some of their land," the BBC caption tells us, backed up by a resident of the village who says "We do not have enough information about the route of the train. But whether it is above land or under the land, it is the same problem.  I am sure we will not have the freedom to work our lands."

But that part of the route is completed. The farmers of Beit Surik aren't impacted - they have not been restricted from farming, even while the tunnel was being excavated. They don't even know exactly where the tunnel is! Certainly they are not affected by this train line in the least.

The claim that the train will force the villagers to lose access to their farms is provably, obviously false. Yet the BBC parrots it as if there is any credence to it.

(full article online)

BBC report on Jerusalem-Tel Aviv train parrots absurd Palestinian claims ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

These benefits for Hamas are exactly why the proposed truce is dangerous and sends the wrong message to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists. A truce now says that if you engage in violent, extortionistic acts, you get what you want.


This victory for Hamas will, of course, only increase the terrorists' appetite and motivation to continue their attempts to kill as many Jews as possible. They will see any truce as a retreat on the part of Israel in the face of violence and terrorism.


Hamas will now have more time to prepare for the next war against Israel. The proposed truce will give Hamas breathing space to smuggle more weapons into the Gaza Strip, dig new tunnels and recruit thousands of Palestinians to its ranks.


A real truce between Israel and the Gaza Strip will be achieved only after the jihadi terrorists are removed from power, and not rewarded for violence and threats.

(full article online)

The Middle East "Truce": Why Hamas Cannot Be Trusted


----------



## Sixties Fan

Purporting to be showing images of Arab victims from the village of Al-Dawayima which the Israeli army captured during Israel’s War of Independence in 1948 (see note below), official PA TV deceptively showed a photo from a Nazi concentration camp showing victims from the Holocaust. 

Below is the original photo from the concentration camp at Nordhausen, originally a sub-camp of Buchenwald, showing hundreds of dead victims. It was taken right after liberation of the camp by the American army: 






[April 17, 1945, AP photo / US army Signal Corps]

This is PA TV’s image and text on screen claiming the victims are Arabs:
“70 years since the occupation’s massacre at the village of Al-Dawayima”




 [Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Oct. 28, 2018]

Ironically, this is not the first time PA TV have deceived their viewers about this concentration camp photo. Palestinian Media Watch exposed earlier this year that PA TV presented this very same photo claiming it showed Arabs killed by Jews on April 9, 1948 in the village of Deir Yassin.

(full article online)

PA lies, presents Holocaust victims as Arabs - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Car crash victim's body refused pre-burial prayers for land sale to Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

No goods can be imported into Gaza today, because thetrucking companies in Gaza have ceased working.

The Palestinian Authority has levied taxes on all truckloads of goods, about NIS 30 per truck. The transport companies declared that they would stop all loading of trucks at Kerem Shalom.

The Land Transport Association said they will refuse to work until these fees are rescinded. However long it takes.

(full article online)

No imports to Gaza today - because Gaza truckers went on strike ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Following Tuesday's municipal elections in Israel, Abbas' Fatah Movement thanked Arabs in Jerusalem who gave in to the PA's threats, including the PA's religious ruling (fatwa) which - in the name of Islam - prohibited participation in the Jerusalem elections. Only 1.5% of the Arabs exercised their right to vote, following the PA's orders not to endorse the rule of "the occupation." 

The complete boycott by Arabs is in all likelihood the results of the threats and pressure by the PA and not the result of Jerusalem's Arabs wishing to protest Israeli rule. A poll by the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion found in 2015 that 52% of Jerusalem's Arabs said they "would prefer to be citizens of Israel," as opposed to 42% who wished to be "citizens of a Palestinian state." With more than half of Jerusalem Arabs desiring to be citizens of Israel, in all likelihood the 98.5% boycott of the recent elections was a result of fear due to the PA's repeated threats.

Fatah, however, ignoring the actual wishes of the Arab residents as shown in the poll's findings, is turning the boycott into a statement against Israeli sovereignty. Fatah's spokesman Osama Al-Qawasmi said that the boycott of the elections shows that Palestinians are even prepared to "defend it at all costs," a common Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror. He also anticipates "victory" for "Muslims and Christians" in "liberating" the city:

(full article online)

PA threats succeed: Only 1.5% of Jerusalem Arabs vote in elections  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.

It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
Click to expand...


When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*

Date?
You'll be waffling as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
Click to expand...

When did Israel ever stop its violence?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
Click to expand...

Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.

Defending one's territory and population is not violence.

You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.

  Rest, you deserve it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> These benefits for Hamas are exactly why the proposed truce is dangerous and sends the wrong message to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists. A truce now says that if you engage in violent, extortionistic acts, you get what you want.
> 
> 
> This victory for Hamas will, of course, only increase the terrorists' appetite and motivation to continue their attempts to kill as many Jews as possible. They will see any truce as a retreat on the part of Israel in the face of violence and terrorism.
> 
> 
> Hamas will now have more time to prepare for the next war against Israel. The proposed truce will give Hamas breathing space to smuggle more weapons into the Gaza Strip, dig new tunnels and recruit thousands of Palestinians to its ranks.
> 
> 
> A real truce between Israel and the Gaza Strip will be achieved only after the jihadi terrorists are removed from power, and not rewarded for violence and threats.
> (full article online)
> 
> The Middle East "Truce": Why Hamas Cannot Be Trusted


WOW, truckload of sour grapes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
Click to expand...

Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
Click to expand...


2000 years ago.
You were given all that time to learn to tolerate Jews, yet Christians and Arabs kept on murdering and blaming all of their ills on that tiny minority, while having the whole of the world under Your control.

You've missed the opportunity, time is running up.
Jews live, while their haters come and go only to perish with history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> ​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...

The CHILDREN OF ISRAEL have had to defend themselves from ALL of the invaders to their land.

And now, the invaders are the Arabs.  Before, it was the Turks, before that, it was the Crusaders, before that it was the Muslim Arabs......so on and so forth.

It is no different from all other people who have been invaded, subjugated and have achieved, or look forward to achieving freedom from those who invaded and oppressed them for no matter how long a time.

No, Tinmore, you and your Arab friends are NOT the victims in all of this.

Arabia is calling.......Allah awaits all Arabs to return to their fold.

Salam.


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The CHILDREN OF ISRAEL have had to defend themselves from ALL of the invaders to their land.
> 
> And now, the invaders are the Arabs.  Before, it was the Turks, before that, it was the Crusaders, before that it was the Muslim Arabs......so on and so forth.
> 
> It is no different from all other people who have been invaded, subjugated and have achieved, or look forward to achieving freedom from those who invaded and oppressed them for no matter how long a time.
> 
> No, Tinmore, you and your Arab friends are NOT the victims in all of this.
> 
> Arabia is calling.......Allah awaits all Arabs to return to their fold.
> 
> Salam.
Click to expand...

He can only tolerate suicide bombers.
Don't scare him off, after all Jihadis are soft creatures.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> ​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News - ARUTZ SHEVA 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime reason for this situation is the very reason the PA was founded. In 1993, the Israeli government tried to find someone who would accept responsibility for eliminating the terror network created by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity by being granted the authority to rule the area and administer the lives of the Arabs living there. This was the "deal" concocted by the Israelis, and the "contractor" who accepted the challenge was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government actually believed that Arafat was serious about eliminating terror and establishing an autonomous administrative system for running those territories.
> *SOURCE:* Dr. Mordechai Kedar, 03/11/18 | *A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream* |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rude awakening for the Palestinian dream
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Well, it really doesn't matter what the Arab Palestinian point-of-view _(ie Tinmore and the rest)_ hold to in this conflict.  No matter how they portray themselves,  no matter the vantage point they retain, they are at the end of the day, the aggressor.



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.


*(COMMENT)*

The 1948 War of Independence was an engagement between the Israelis and the Arab League_ (primarily  Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon but with the assistance of Yemen, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan)_.  However, it was NOT a conflict in which the Arab Palestinians were a party.  When the Armistice Arrangements were signed, the Parties to the conflict made agreements.  The Palestinians were not a party to the conflict as a nation state.  They were being represented by the Arab League.  The Primary nations participated in the ceasefire arrangements.  The Arab Palestinians never agreed to peace. 

At the conclusion of the 1967 Six-Day War,  similar ceasefire arrangements were made, and the Armistice Demarcation Lines _(The Green Line)_, not by international law, became over time the _de facto_ borders.  And then came the Peace Treaties came along and solidified some of the border issues.  The Treaty which encapsulates the West Bank was between Israel and Jordan.  The Treaty which encapsulates the Gaza Strip was between Israel and Egypt.

THE POINT here is that the Arab Palestinians did not engage as an entity in any effort for to quell hostilities or to secure the peace.  They still operated pretty much → as a people that hold peace hostage _(armed resistance is the only solution)_.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> ​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...


More of your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Not that anyone should be surprised.


PA lies, presents Holocaust victims as Arabs - PMW Bulletins


PMW Bulletins
PA lies, presents Holocaust victims as Arabs
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Nov. 5, 2018 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">

*PA lies, presents Holocaust victims as Arabs*

*PA TV showed a photo with rows of dead bodies claiming they were Arabs killed by Israelis in the Arab village of Al-Dawayima in 1948.*
_*In fact, it was a photo of Holocaust victims in a concentration camp.*_

*PA TV already lied about this photo of Holocaust victims earlier this year. Then they told their viewers they were Arabs killed by Israelis at Deir Yassin in 1948.*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Purporting to be showing images of Arab victims from the village of Al-Dawayima which the Israeli army captured during Israel’s War of Independence in 1948 (see note below), official PA TV deceptively showed a photo from a Nazi concentration camp showing victims from the Holocaust. 



Just really creepy.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> This is a completely different perspective thenI've ever seen.  Especially: *⇒*
> 
> ​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is something I thought would have come at no cost:  "someone willing to be rewarded for anti-terrorist activity"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...


Israel “attacked” Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Egypt ???    They initiated the Palestinian Intifadas?    That is actually funny !


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a one way street. The Palestinians had to eliminate their so called terror but Israel got to keep theirs.
> 
> It might have worked if Israel reciprocated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did Arabs eliminate their Jihad?
> When did Arabs cease to promise an establishment of a* Caliphate "from the river to the sea"?*
> 
> Date?
> You'll be waffling as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel ever stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has had to defend itself from the first day it declared its Independence.
> 
> Defending one's territory and population is not violence.
> 
> You know very well that from 1920 on, the violent ones have been the Arabs.
> 
> Rest, you deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel “attacked” Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Egypt ???    They initiated the Palestinian Intifadas?    That is actually funny !
Click to expand...


Don’t confuse the wannabe with facts. He stumbles upon them with a face plant, but gets up, brushes himself off and proceeds on as if nothing has happened.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Response to Pittsburgh: a Contrast in Societies


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Endlessly Infantile     One would think that Arabs invented the word palaestinae (Palestine) when most did not even start coming to the area until the 7th century CE ]

The Palestine viper, or daboia palaestinae, was selected based on an online vote.

Found across the Levant, from the northern Negev and western Jordan in the south to northern Lebanon and central Syria in the north, the snake is common throughout most of Israel, and in Hebrew is referred to as the ‘common viper’, or ‘common Land of Israel viper’.

The Palestinian Authority protested the move, calling it an act of ‘theft’ which ignored what they called the viper’s Palestinian heritage.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority: Israel stole our snake


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border Guard Police Foil Female Arab Terrorist at Kfar Adumim


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority regularly demonizes Jews, Israelis, and those who they call "settlers" and accuse them of believing in precisely the hate ideologies the PA itself espouses to its own people.

While accusing Israelis of participating in a religious war, it is Mahmoud Abbas' advisor who has called Israel "Satan's project" and presented the war with Israel as a religious war to destroy Israel and Jews. The PA Mufti, who is appointed by Abbas, has said extermination of Jews is a religious obligationand Islamic destiny. 

In Israel, the isolated cases of Israeli terror against Palestinians are punished and condemned. It is the Palestinian Authority under direct instructions of Mahmoud Abbas that rewards murderers of Israelis with high salaries and calls terrorist murderers "stars in the sky of the Palestinian people." 

In this op-ed in the official PA daily, the writer projects the PA's own hate ideologies onto what he refers to as Israeli "settlers." They are demonized as inhuman murderers who kill Palestinians for their own pleasure and at the orders of the Israeli government.

Under the headline "The settlers are sacrificing the Palestinians' blood as a sacrifice to Netanyahu," regular columnist for the official PA daily, Muwaffaq Matar, who is also a member of the Fatah Revolutionary Council and hosts a TV program on Fatah-run Awdah TV, portrayed Israelis living beyond the Green Line as "mass murderers obsessed with bloodshed" who are "directed" and controlled by the Israeli army and government:

(full article online)

"Settlers" kill Palestinians for pleasure - hate speech in official PA daily - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

"We were able to prevent 480 major ‎terrorist attacks, stop 590 lone-wolf terrorists and ‎arrest 219 Hamas cells. This indicates that there is ‎a large, clandestine terrorist infrastructure ‎there."

Hamas leaders in Gaza and Turkey are sparing no ‎effort to mastermind terrorist attacks in Judea and ‎Samaria, and similar efforts are being made from ‎‎Lebanon by the Hezbollah terrorist group, Argaman said.

(full article online)

Security agency chief warns of deceptive calm: We foiled 480 major terror attacks this year - Israel Hayom


----------



## Sixties Fan

The raid on the offices of the PA ministry, which also includes the headquarters of the PA “Governorate of Jerusalem,” came in the context of Israel’s efforts to enforce a law that bans the PA from operating inside the country.

Israel says that the Palestinians had been acting in violation of the Law for the Implementation of the Agreement on the Gaza Strip and Jericho Area – Restriction on Activity – 1994, which prevents the PA from carrying out political, governmental or similar activity within the area of the State of Israel, including in east Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Israel steps up effort to block PA activities in Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Why can't they find the right photos?  It would help their cause, not Israel's.  ]

Only one problem.

The photo is of Gaza and it is from 2013.






The sewage comes from Gaza, not Israel.

But when one needs a photo to back up the lies of Israel drowning Palestinians in sewage, one needs to be creative as to the sources of the photos.

(full article online)

Pallywood in Middle East Monitor ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why Linda Sarsour's Denunciation of Pittsburgh Shooter is Meaningless - The Tower


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [Why can't they find the right photos?  It would help their cause, not Israel's.  ]
> 
> Only one problem.
> 
> The photo is of Gaza and it is from 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sewage comes from Gaza, not Israel.
> 
> But when one needs a photo to back up the lies of Israel drowning Palestinians in sewage, one needs to be creative as to the sources of the photos.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Pallywood in Middle East Monitor ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


 
 That’s what happens when Pro Pals lie


----------



## Hollie

I cant say I understand the idea of a "Peaceful solution" with Islam. In every instance across the planet where Peaceful Inner Strugglers are in the majority, those of minority faiths are subject to discrimination, privation and even death. In the situation of the islamics masquerading as "Pal'istanians", it seems the entire societal structure is one that is utterly consumed with hate, self-hate. 


*Palestinians schoolbooks still promote terror and the demise of Israel*

Palestinians schoolbooks still promote terror and the demise of Israel

A four-year study found that after examining 364 Palestinian Authority schoolbooks for grades one through 12 from the years 2013 to 2018, children are still learning that a peaceful resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not an option.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"There's no place for the [Israeli] enemy on the map." — Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas leader, October 29, 2018.


A number of senior Fatah officials, including Munir al-Jaghoob and Mohammed Shtayyeh, have condemned Oman for hosting Netanyahu. They have also condemned the UAE for allowing Israelis to participate in the judo competition.


So, Fatah and Hamas cannot agree to pay their workers, they cannot agree on supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip, and they cannot agree on providing medical supplies to hospitals there. They do agree, however, on inflicting more harm and damage on their people. If they go on like this, the day will come when the Palestinians will discover that their friends and brothers have become their biggest enemies.

(full article online)

Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

*(COMIC RELIEF FOR THE DAY)*

While reading this article you contributed, I ran across another; about "Who are the Palestinians." 



			
				post: 21144031 said:
			
		

> • Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel •



I find these issues absolutely funny.

*•  -Arabs upset that Palestinian suicide bombings and airline hijackings are called "terrorism" in textbook-  •*

I find it quite amusing that this would be an issue at all.  I have wonder how this could occur.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Western Europe: the last supporters of Palestinianism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

That’s right, elected to the US Congress but waving the Palestinian flag. Says a lot about agenda and priority. Hamas is celebrating tonight.


Imam of Peace (@Imamofpeace) | Twitter


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> That’s right, elected to the US Congress but waving the Palestinian flag. Says a lot about agenda and priority. Hamas is celebrating tonight.
> 
> 
> Imam of Peace (@Imamofpeace) | Twitter



Is she also the first refugee to be elected to Congress?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s right, elected to the US Congress but waving the Palestinian flag. Says a lot about agenda and priority. Hamas is celebrating tonight.
> 
> 
> Imam of Peace (@Imamofpeace) | Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is she also the first refugee to be elected to Congress?
Click to expand...

Possibly.  Wait, as an American Arab Palestinian, she is still a refugee?

So, are we ALL refugees.......still?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> "There's no place for the [Israeli] enemy on the map." — Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas leader, October 29, 2018.
> 
> 
> A number of senior Fatah officials, including Munir al-Jaghoob and Mohammed Shtayyeh, have condemned Oman for hosting Netanyahu. They have also condemned the UAE for allowing Israelis to participate in the judo competition.
> 
> 
> So, Fatah and Hamas cannot agree to pay their workers, they cannot agree on supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip, and they cannot agree on providing medical supplies to hospitals there. They do agree, however, on inflicting more harm and damage on their people. If they go on like this, the day will come when the Palestinians will discover that their friends and brothers have become their biggest enemies.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel


Attempts by their Arab brothers, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to solve the power struggle between the two rival Palestinian groups have thus far failed and are unlikely to succeed in the foreseeable future.​
They want to put Fatah's illegal security forces back into Gaza. These are the forces that Hamas expelled in 2007. These forces regularly violate Palestine's constitution and the rights of the people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There's no place for the [Israeli] enemy on the map." — Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas leader, October 29, 2018.
> 
> 
> A number of senior Fatah officials, including Munir al-Jaghoob and Mohammed Shtayyeh, have condemned Oman for hosting Netanyahu. They have also condemned the UAE for allowing Israelis to participate in the judo competition.
> 
> 
> So, Fatah and Hamas cannot agree to pay their workers, they cannot agree on supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip, and they cannot agree on providing medical supplies to hospitals there. They do agree, however, on inflicting more harm and damage on their people. If they go on like this, the day will come when the Palestinians will discover that their friends and brothers have become their biggest enemies.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Attempts by their Arab brothers, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to solve the power struggle between the two rival Palestinian groups have thus far failed and are unlikely to succeed in the foreseeable future.​
> They want to put Fatah's illegal security forces back into Gaza. These are the forces that Hamas expelled in 2007. These forces regularly violate Palestine's constitution and the rights of the people.
Click to expand...


The Islamic terrorists masquerading as Pal’stinians certainly do follow a constitution, of sorts. It’s just vastly different from the underlying precepts that founded western civilization.

_God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”
_
Where do you think the above is taken from?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There's no place for the [Israeli] enemy on the map." — Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas leader, October 29, 2018.
> 
> 
> A number of senior Fatah officials, including Munir al-Jaghoob and Mohammed Shtayyeh, have condemned Oman for hosting Netanyahu. They have also condemned the UAE for allowing Israelis to participate in the judo competition.
> 
> 
> So, Fatah and Hamas cannot agree to pay their workers, they cannot agree on supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip, and they cannot agree on providing medical supplies to hospitals there. They do agree, however, on inflicting more harm and damage on their people. If they go on like this, the day will come when the Palestinians will discover that their friends and brothers have become their biggest enemies.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Attempts by their Arab brothers, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to solve the power struggle between the two rival Palestinian groups have thus far failed and are unlikely to succeed in the foreseeable future.​
> They want to put Fatah's illegal security forces back into Gaza. These are the forces that Hamas expelled in 2007. These forces regularly violate Palestine's constitution and the rights of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists masquerading as Pal’stinians certainly do follow a constitution, of sorts. It’s just vastly different from the underlying precepts that founded western civilization.
> 
> _God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”
> _
> Where do you think the above is taken from?
Click to expand...

Ahh, it is not from Palestine's constitution.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Discovers Live Grenades Intended for Jews on Monthly Pilgrimage to Joseph’s Tomb


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There's no place for the [Israeli] enemy on the map." — Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas leader, October 29, 2018.
> 
> 
> A number of senior Fatah officials, including Munir al-Jaghoob and Mohammed Shtayyeh, have condemned Oman for hosting Netanyahu. They have also condemned the UAE for allowing Israelis to participate in the judo competition.
> 
> 
> So, Fatah and Hamas cannot agree to pay their workers, they cannot agree on supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip, and they cannot agree on providing medical supplies to hospitals there. They do agree, however, on inflicting more harm and damage on their people. If they go on like this, the day will come when the Palestinians will discover that their friends and brothers have become their biggest enemies.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Attempts by their Arab brothers, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to solve the power struggle between the two rival Palestinian groups have thus far failed and are unlikely to succeed in the foreseeable future.​
> They want to put Fatah's illegal security forces back into Gaza. These are the forces that Hamas expelled in 2007. These forces regularly violate Palestine's constitution and the rights of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists masquerading as Pal’stinians certainly do follow a constitution, of sorts. It’s just vastly different from the underlying precepts that founded western civilization.
> 
> _God is our Goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of God is the loftiest of our wishes. God is great, God is great.”
> _
> Where do you think the above is taken from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, it is not from Palestine's constitution.
Click to expand...


It is from the “constitution” that identifies one tribe of Islamic trrrorists elected as dictators of an erstwhile mini-caliphate. 

Of what value is another “constitution” that is featureless? 

Indeed!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Abbas okays Gaza truce


----------



## Sixties Fan

The waves of terror that trailed these concessions in Judea and Samaria, and again following the disengagement from the Gaza Strip, are evidence that the conflict doesn't stem from "occupation." Therefore, no withdrawal will lead to peace. The conflict is rooted in the Palestinians' refusal to accept the presence of Jews in this land and Israel's right to exist. Peace isn't on the docket today and wasn't on the docket when Rabin was alive, either.

Amir didn't influence diplomatic processes. No one affected them more than Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat, who misled Rabin. Arguing that his murder torpedoed the peace process absolves the Palestinians of responsibility for their belligerence and helps the Left evade the historical truth: It wasn't the murder that destroyed the chance for peace; it was our "partners" in Ramallah.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/rabins-murder-didnt-kill-peace/


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are more photos of new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib with a Palestinian flag than with an American flag ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It appears that the Dutch are deciding their welfare contributions being used to promote, support and further Islamic terrorism has perhaps met its limits. 

It is obvious that a wider array of nations are coming to the realization that it is pointless to pretend that showering Islamic terrorist with welfare dollars will only continue an Islamic terrorist problem. Showering Islamic terrorist dictators with welfare dollars only serves to keep those Islamic terrorist dictators in positions of control.  Granting islamic terrorists the privilege of entitlements to non-interference by those nations supplying the welfare fraud money only serves to embolden the islamic terrorists.



Dutch MPs respond to PMW lecture 
with calls to cut funding to Palestinian Authority 

Dutch MPs call to cut PA funding, following PMW and terror survivor’s lectures - PMW Bulletins


PMW director Itamar Marcus and Kay Wilson, a survivor of a brutal terror attack, addressed members of Dutch Parliament

Kay Wilson to MPs: “I watched in horror as a Palestinian terrorist butchered my Christian friend to death right in front of me... A second Palestinian terrorist stabbed me 13 times... The PA’s rewarding of those two killers and all the other thousands of terrorists in prison is both morally abhorrent and incomprehensible.”

Dutch MPs plan to initiate legislation to cut funding to the PA by the amount the PA spends on rewarding terrorists  







_Kay Wilson and PMW director Marcus_
Palestinian Media Watch director Itamar Marcus spoke to members of Dutch Parliament yesterday documenting the many ways in which the Palestinian Authority in itself is the fundamental impediment to peace. Marcus documented PA’s vicious Antisemitism, its indoctrination of children to hatred and terror, as well as the PA's continued monthly payments to terrorist prisoners and families of killed terrorists.

Members of Dutch Parliament expressed their condemnation of these PA activities and discussed steps that should be taken to stop the funding by their own government.

MP Kees van der Staaij: “I think it’s also important to have now further steps [by the Netherlands] and to stop each payment to Palestinians as long as there is no real progress.”
[Parliament of The Netherlands, Nov. 7, 2018


----------



## Mindful

"There's no place for the [Israeli] enemy on the map." — Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas leader, October 29, 2018.


A number of senior Fatah officials, including Munir al-Jaghoob and Mohammed Shtayyeh, have condemned Oman for hosting Netanyahu. They have also condemned the UAE for allowing Israelis to participate in the judo competition.


So, Fatah and Hamas cannot agree to pay their workers, they cannot agree on supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip, and they cannot agree on providing medical supplies to hospitals there. They do agree, however, on inflicting more harm and damage on their people. If they go on like this, the day will come when the Palestinians will discover that their friends and brothers have become their biggest enemies.

Palestinian Threats to Arab Normalization with Israel


----------



## Hollie

Say it ain’t so, Sami.

All seriousness aside, assigning terms such as “missed opportunities” and
“... paid the price for choosing bad leaders who made bad decisions,...” is old history but _describes_ the history of the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists parading around as “Pal’istanians”.

I would opine that a bad decision by Arabs -Moslems is exampled by decades of “leadership” by Islamic terrorists. These are the same “leaders” who have managed and exploited a UN welfare fraud agency. We rarely read of any of the enablers and promoters of islamic terrorism being brought to justice by the islamist governments which support and shelter the terrorists. Is that because the enablers and promoters of islamic terrorism are enabled and promoted by islamist governments? That's a rhetorical question, BTW.




Former Kuwaiti Minister Sami Al-Nesf in Support of the "Deal of the Century": The Palestinian Cause Is The Cause of Missed Opportunities

During an interview on the Egyptian Mehwar TV channel, Kuwait's former Minister of Information Sami Abadullatif Al-Nesf praised Oman for supporting the "Deal of the Century" and for wanting to arrive at realistic solutions to the Palestinian issue. Al-Nesf said that the Palestinian cause has paid the price for choosing bad leaders who made bad decisions, and that the Palestinian cause has become the cause of missed opportunities.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Could someone please tell both Gaza and the P. A. that they are not ever going to be one Palestinian State, and as they continue to want to destroy Israel.....Never....a Palestinian State, at all ]


Palestinians on Sunday mark 14 years since the death of their late leader Yasser Arafat, with his successor as Palestinian Authority president laying a wreath at his tomb in Ramallah in the West Bank on Sunday.


Abbas suspended diplomatic contact with Washington following Trump’s 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Abbas adds that Hamas, his bitter rival which rules the Gaza Strip, was also hindering the cause.

“Another plot, by Hamas, aims to disrupt the establishment of an independent Palestinian state,” he says.

(full article online)

Abbas accuses US, Israel and Hamas of blocking Palestinian statehood


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Could someone please tell both Gaza and the P. A. that they are not ever going to be one Palestinian State, and as they continue to want to destroy Israel.....Never....a Palestinian State, at all ]
> 
> 
> Palestinians on Sunday mark 14 years since the death of their late leader Yasser Arafat, with his successor as Palestinian Authority president laying a wreath at his tomb in Ramallah in the West Bank on Sunday.
> 
> 
> Abbas suspended diplomatic contact with Washington following Trump’s 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> Abbas adds that Hamas, his bitter rival which rules the Gaza Strip, was also hindering the cause.
> 
> “Another plot, by Hamas, aims to disrupt the establishment of an independent Palestinian state,” he says.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas accuses US, Israel and Hamas of blocking Palestinian statehood



If they _really _wanted one, they would have had one by now. Even reaching back to 1948.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Could someone please tell both Gaza and the P. A. that they are not ever going to be one Palestinian State, and as they continue to want to destroy Israel.....Never....a Palestinian State, at all ]
> 
> 
> Palestinians on Sunday mark 14 years since the death of their late leader Yasser Arafat, with his successor as Palestinian Authority president laying a wreath at his tomb in Ramallah in the West Bank on Sunday.
> 
> 
> Abbas suspended diplomatic contact with Washington following Trump’s 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> Abbas adds that Hamas, his bitter rival which rules the Gaza Strip, was also hindering the cause.
> 
> “Another plot, by Hamas, aims to disrupt the establishment of an independent Palestinian state,” he says.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas accuses US, Israel and Hamas of blocking Palestinian statehood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they _really _wanted one, they would have had one by now. Even reaching back to 1948.
Click to expand...


Where were they before ‘67?


----------



## Mindful

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Could someone please tell both Gaza and the P. A. that they are not ever going to be one Palestinian State, and as they continue to want to destroy Israel.....Never....a Palestinian State, at all ]
> 
> 
> Palestinians on Sunday mark 14 years since the death of their late leader Yasser Arafat, with his successor as Palestinian Authority president laying a wreath at his tomb in Ramallah in the West Bank on Sunday.
> 
> 
> Abbas suspended diplomatic contact with Washington following Trump’s 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> Abbas adds that Hamas, his bitter rival which rules the Gaza Strip, was also hindering the cause.
> 
> “Another plot, by Hamas, aims to disrupt the establishment of an independent Palestinian state,” he says.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas accuses US, Israel and Hamas of blocking Palestinian statehood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they _really _wanted one, they would have had one by now. Even reaching back to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where were they before ‘67?
Click to expand...


Good question.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Could someone please tell both Gaza and the P. A. that they are not ever going to be one Palestinian State, and as they continue to want to destroy Israel.....Never....a Palestinian State, at all ]
> 
> 
> Palestinians on Sunday mark 14 years since the death of their late leader Yasser Arafat, with his successor as Palestinian Authority president laying a wreath at his tomb in Ramallah in the West Bank on Sunday.
> 
> 
> Abbas suspended diplomatic contact with Washington following Trump’s 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> Abbas adds that Hamas, his bitter rival which rules the Gaza Strip, was also hindering the cause.
> 
> “Another plot, by Hamas, aims to disrupt the establishment of an independent Palestinian state,” he says.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas accuses US, Israel and Hamas of blocking Palestinian statehood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they _really _wanted one, they would have had one by now. Even reaching back to 1948.
Click to expand...


Actually, reaching back to the first Partition proposal in 1937.
But....so,  we do not know what they want


----------



## Hollie

The _status quo _allows the current Islamic terrorist welfare thieves to continue the welfare fraud that is an inheritance from Yassir Arafat. Those at the top of the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist pyramid have everything to lose with establishment of an Arab-Moslem “State”.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  The things money can buy.....if you kill a Jew.... ]

By the time a Palestinian terrorist spends 20 years in prison, he or she will have been paid by the Palestinian Authority a cumulative sum of approximately 1,118,400 shekels. Upon release, PA law allows terrorists jailed for more than 20 years to purchase a car free of tax. In Israel, a Ferrari 458 Spider costs 1,000,000 shekels before tax. Accordingly, when released from prison a Palestinian terrorist has accrued enough "blood money", among other things, to buy a Ferrari. 

The exemption from paying tax on a new car is just one of the many financial rewards the PA pays to the terrorist prisoners and to the families of dead terrorists. 

*Benefits for terrorist prisoners*

The following are additional benefits that terrorist prisoners receive under PA law and implementing regulations (2004 PA Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners and PA government regulations from 2010 and 2013): 

A monthly salary that starts at 1,400 shekels/month and rises to 12,000 shekels according to the amount of time the terrorist stays in prison. 







The monthly salary payments are based on the cumulative periods a terrorist spends in prison. Accordingly, if a prisoner spent 3 years in prison, was released, and then was imprisoned again for additional terrorist acts, his salary during the second period of incarceration starts at 2,000 shekels/month (see chart above).

Terrorist prisoners who were employed by the PA at the time of their arrest are entitled to continue to receive their original PA salary and will continue to enjoy the rises in the PA pay scales so long as their salary outside prison was higher than the regular terrorist salary pay scale. If their "civilian" salary was lower, they are entitled to the higher terrorist salary. 

In addition, terrorist prisoners are entitled to have university degrees funded by the PA. 
l
The children of terrorist prisoners are exempt from paying elementary and high school fees in PA schools. 

The children of male terrorist prisoners who were sentenced to 20 years imprisonment and have spent at least five years in prison and children of female terrorist prisoners who were sentenced to at least 10 years in prison and have spent at least 3 years in prison are entitled to an 80% reduction in university fees. 


(full article online)

Spend 20 years in prison for terrorist offences and buy a Ferrari free of tax - PMW Bulletins


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  et al,

I'm not really sure what the _status quo_ is anymore in the Middle East or specifically the conflict in Palestine. 



Hollie said:


> The _status quo _allows the current Islamic terrorist welfare thieves to continue the welfare fraud that is an inheritance from Yassir Arafat. Those at the top of the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist pyramid have everything to lose with the establishment of an Arab-Moslem “State”.


*(COMMENT)*

I am not sure one can look at the at much more than just Palestine and Israel to get a flavor of the _status quo_ in order to understand the Middle East.  While the Arab Spring brought some change, change was short-lived → if not the catalyst for worse times.  Most in the Middle East wake to very much the same patriarchal society as they did in times before the Arab Spring.  In the eyes of some, there was even some great political expense experienced.  It is now 7 years on and Syria is a mess.  The Syrian Democratic Forces _[Arab Forces (US-Backed)]_ still engage the DAESH _[AKA: Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)] _in Eastern Syria.  There are still over 160,000 Palestinian Refugees in NGO/UN hands that the Syrians plan to relocate back to the _(mostly destroyed)_ South Damascus Refugee Camp _(Yarmouk)_.  It remains to be seen if the Palestinian Authority (PA) or the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) are going to rebuild the camp.  There are another _(formerly held civilians by IS)_ 50,000 Syrian refugees that fled the fighting on the northeastern Syrian-Jordanian border. This is not to mention the ≈ 4 million Syrian refugees sprinkled across four nations adjacent to the fighting. 

There is a deterioration of PA relations with both the Israelis and the Americans; particularly over Jerusalem protocols.  And the HAMAS border challenges are heating up along the northern border.

I'm not sure that, external to the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank would like to be in the same condition as their Syrian counterparts.  Maybe they would prefer to live and work under the Israeli umbrella. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  et al,
> 
> I'm not really sure what the _status quo_ is anymore in the Middle East or specifically the conflict in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The _status quo _allows the current Islamic terrorist welfare thieves to continue the welfare fraud that is an inheritance from Yassir Arafat. Those at the top of the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist pyramid have everything to lose with the establishment of an Arab-Moslem “State”.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am not sure one can look at the at much more than just Palestine and Israel to get a flavor of the _status quo_ in order to understand the Middle East.  While the Arab Spring brought some change, change was short-lived → if not the catalyst for worse times.  Most in the Middle East wake to very much the same patriarchal society as they did in times before the Arab Spring.  In the eyes of some, there was even some great political expense experienced.  It is now 7 years on and Syria is a mess.  The Syrian Democratic Forces _[Arab Forces (US-Backed)]_ still engage the DAESH _[AKA: Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)] _in Eastern Syria.  There are still over 160,000 Palestinian Refugees in NGO/UN hands that the Syrians plan to relocate back to the _(mostly destroyed)_ South Damascus Refugee Camp _(Yarmouk)_.  It remains to be seen if the Palestinian Authority (PA) or the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) are going to rebuild the camp.  There are another _(formerly held civilians by IS)_ 50,000 Syrian refugees that fled the fighting on the northeastern Syrian-Jordanian border. This is not to mention the ≈ 4 million Syrian refugees sprinkled across four nations adjacent to the fighting.
> 
> There is a deterioration of PA relations with both the Israelis and the Americans; particularly over Jerusalem protocols.  And the HAMAS border challenges are heating up along the northern border.
> 
> I'm not sure that, external to the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank would like to be in the same condition as their Syrian counterparts.  Maybe they would prefer to live and work under the Israeli umbrella.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The status quo was - the infamous "3 No's", which gave Palestinian leaders key positions in the Arab league. That position visibly diminishes as Israel takes a central position in a wider Arab alliance.

Regarding refugees, it means that in this specific conflict the Arab states will take a formal responsibility in resettlement and provision of full citizenship. According to UNHCR among the top 5 refugee hosting countries only one is Arab (Lebanon) hosting 1 million out of the 68.5 million forcibly displaced people worldwide. 

In my view it is a key issue for Europe, to make sure Arab states take responsibility for their refugees, so to prevent further migration of hostile populations as a resolve in geopolitical conflicts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

To date, Hamas and Fatah have not been able to agree on the interpretation of the "reconciliation" agreements already signed. Fatah claims that the agreements are supposed to allow its Ramallah-based government to assume full responsibility over the Gaza Strip. Hamas, for its part, remains vehemently opposed to relinquishing security control over the Gaza Strip.


Abbas's official news agency, Wafa, issued a strongly worded statement accusing Hamas of being part of a "Zionist-American conspiracy" to detach the West Bank from the Gaza Strip. According to the statement, Hamas is now cooperating with the US and Israel to establish a separate Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip. "There will be no Palestinian state without the Gaza Strip, and there will be no [separate Palestinian] state in the Gaza Strip," the statement quoted Abbas as saying.


Abbas can continue to present himself to the world as the "President of the State of Palestine" as much as he wants. He is only living in an illusion: it is obvious by now that he does not represent the two million Palestinians who are living in a separate Hamas-controlled entity in the Gaza Strip. Abbas has not been able to set foot in the Gaza Strip for the past 11 years, and his chances of ever returning there now seem to be zero.


(full article online)

The "Separate" Palestinian State


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> To date, Hamas and Fatah have not been able to agree on the interpretation of the "reconciliation" agreements already signed. Fatah claims that the agreements are supposed to allow its Ramallah-based government to assume full responsibility over the Gaza Strip. Hamas, for its part, remains vehemently opposed to relinquishing security control over the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> Abbas's official news agency, Wafa, issued a strongly worded statement accusing Hamas of being part of a "Zionist-American conspiracy" to detach the West Bank from the Gaza Strip. According to the statement, Hamas is now cooperating with the US and Israel to establish a separate Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip. "There will be no Palestinian state without the Gaza Strip, and there will be no [separate Palestinian] state in the Gaza Strip," the statement quoted Abbas as saying.
> 
> 
> Abbas can continue to present himself to the world as the "President of the State of Palestine" as much as he wants. He is only living in an illusion: it is obvious by now that he does not represent the two million Palestinians who are living in a separate Hamas-controlled entity in the Gaza Strip. Abbas has not been able to set foot in the Gaza Strip for the past 11 years, and his chances of ever returning there now seem to be zero.
> (full article online)
> 
> The "Separate" Palestinian State





Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas can continue to present himself to the world as the "President of the State of Palestine" as much as he wants. He is only living in an illusion:


Abbas is the division. He is on the 13th year of a four year term. He only stays in power because the US and Israel want him because he is useless.

He needs to step down and let the constitutional process replace him. Of course the US and Israel will not allow the constitutional process proceed.

It is interesting that the Palestinians do not mention creating "a state."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To date, Hamas and Fatah have not been able to agree on the interpretation of the "reconciliation" agreements already signed. Fatah claims that the agreements are supposed to allow its Ramallah-based government to assume full responsibility over the Gaza Strip. Hamas, for its part, remains vehemently opposed to relinquishing security control over the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> Abbas's official news agency, Wafa, issued a strongly worded statement accusing Hamas of being part of a "Zionist-American conspiracy" to detach the West Bank from the Gaza Strip. According to the statement, Hamas is now cooperating with the US and Israel to establish a separate Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip. "There will be no Palestinian state without the Gaza Strip, and there will be no [separate Palestinian] state in the Gaza Strip," the statement quoted Abbas as saying.
> 
> 
> Abbas can continue to present himself to the world as the "President of the State of Palestine" as much as he wants. He is only living in an illusion: it is obvious by now that he does not represent the two million Palestinians who are living in a separate Hamas-controlled entity in the Gaza Strip. Abbas has not been able to set foot in the Gaza Strip for the past 11 years, and his chances of ever returning there now seem to be zero.
> (full article online)
> 
> The "Separate" Palestinian State
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas can continue to present himself to the world as the "President of the State of Palestine" as much as he wants. He is only living in an illusion:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is the division. He is on the 13th year of a four year term. He only stays in power because the US and Israel want him because he is useless.
> 
> He needs to step down and let the constitutional process replace him. Of course the US and Israel will not allow the constitutional process proceed.
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians do not mention creating "a state."
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories involving the _Great_ _Satan_ are a hoot.  Who are the conspirators who keep Hamas in power without elections? Who is responsible for the Islamic terrorist dictators enabled by islamic terrorist enablers?


----------



## rylah

*Lebanon detains Palestinian man over ISIS-directed poisoning plots*
Lebanon’s intelligence agency said it detained a Palestinian refugee allegedly linked to Islamic State over two poisoning plots, one of Lebanese army water and another of food in a foreign country.

The refugee, born in 1991, admitted to links with a person called “Abu Jallad,” an IS member in Syria “who tasked him with making explosives and concocting poison,” the General Security force tweeted on Thursday, September 27.

Lebanon detains Palestinian man over ISIS-directed poisoning plots


----------



## Hollie

After months of the failed border gee-had and the inability of the Islamic terrorists to breach the Israeli border, it wasn’t a surprise that the islsmic terrorists would look to a broader gee-had. 

I would think that this is the time for Israel to make a concerted effort toward a more disproportionate response and provide a major beatdown to the Islamic terrorists. 


*Hundreds of rockets fired from Gaza at southern Israel amid renewed tensions*

Hundreds of rockets fired from Gaza at southern Israel amid renewed tensions

The Israel Defense Forces said it has also launched strikes against terror targets in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

It’s actually comically tragic to see the pompous blowhards from the Hamas franchise of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_., rattle on with their goofy Death Cult

What a shame that the islamist world can’t seem to find the _will_ to rampage and riot in protest of those heroes who maim and kill their fellow islamists.




Civilians as human shields:
Recognize how Hamas fights Israel

Hamas fights Israel by using civilians as human shields - PMW Bulletins

In 2014, Hamas demanded Palestinians stay in their homes and become "Martyrs," despite Israel's warnings their houses would be bombed

"You [Israelis] are fighting divine soldiers, who love death for Allah like you love life, and who compete among themselves for Martyrdom," - Hamas leader Muhammad Deif, during 2014 Gaza war

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, during 2014 Gaza war:



 



Hamas told Palestinians that "Martyrdom" for Allah and death in the war with Israel was "a privilege"

"We are leading them [our people] to death - I mean, to confrontation" - Hamas' spokesman in 2014 Gaza war

Paradoxically, it has been Israel which has tried to protect the lives of Palestinian civilians by warning of air strikes in advance, while it was Hamas who intentionally endangered them, causing many civilian deaths among Palestinians
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## Sixties Fan

Does it really matter what started the shooting at the border between Israel and Hamas-run Gaza? To outward appearances, it looks like it was something of an accident when a routine security operation inside Gaza went awry and Israeli troops were fired upon, leading to bomb strikes to extricate them. That was followed by the largest barrage of rockets fired at Israel since the war that took place in the summer of 2014.


Iron Dome missiles intercept rockets from Gaza, seen in the sky in southern Israel, on Nov. 12, 2018. Credit: Hadas Parush/Flash90.
Hamas’s decision to launch hundreds of rockets, which has resulted in the death of one man (a Palestinian working inside Israel) and the wounding of more than two dozen Israelis so far, is being discussed in the international media as just one more episode in an endless “cycle of violence,” in which the Jewish state is as guilty as the Islamist terror groups that rule Gaza.

(full article online)

Hamas rockets and the idea of two states


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority terrorists are continuing to attack Israelis in a concerted effort to murder both Jewish and Arab drivers on the roads of Judea and Samaria, using rocks, Molotov cocktails (firebombs), live fireworks and sometimes gunfire. On Wednesday, in at least two cases, both Jews and Arabs were targeted across the regions.

(full article online)

Stoning and Firebombing Terror Attacks Continue in Judea and Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In a later post, Does Hamas Really Kill Its Own Civilians?, Medad followed up and found for the first 4 months of 2014:

 o  9-22 Januaryout of 36 Home Made Rockets (HMRs)/Mortars, 19 landed in Gaza. 
o  23 January-5 February50% fell inside Gaza.
 o  6-19 February no mention.
 o  20 February-5 March6 dropped in Gaza.
 o  6-19 March24 out of 64 firings dropped short/exploded on-site.
 o  20 March-2 April. 9 civilians injured and 1 death due to accidents involving explosive devices and unexploded ordnance.
 o  3-16 April. 3 fatalities and 6 injuries due to accidental explosions. o  17-30 April. 8 rockets dropped short out of 24.


In an article in The Syndey Morning Herald in 2014, Gregory Rose, a specialist in International Law, wrote in "How Gaza became one big suicide bomb":

 About 5 per cent of Hamas rockets misfire and land on Gazan targets, such as one in a hospital and another in a market last week. Three rocket caches at three UN schools have been discovered in the past fortnight. Ironically, in each case, the rockets were handed by UN employees, who are mostly locals, back to Hamas, which is the local government authority with which the UN co-operates.

(full article online)

If Every Palestinian Victim of Hamas Terrorism Was Made Into a Shahid...(Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Now this is pretty darn funny. Islamic terrorist Death Cult TV was broadcasting the usual incitement to the vacant minded Islamo-yutes when an a'splosion took out the broadcast.

Sounds like a great episode for MTV Behind the (islamic terrorist) Music. 
*


"Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV 
half-hour before station destroyed*

"Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV half-hour before station destroyed - PMW Bulletins





By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

About a half hour before Hamas' TV station in the Gaza Strip was bombed by Israel, the station broadcast a music video repeatedly announcing: "Death to Israel." The video shows footage from terror attacks and scenes from funerals and burials of Israeli terror victims. The words "DEATH TO ISRAEL" flash in Hebrew on the screen as the Arabic song focuses on that message:

















*Song:* "Expel the thieving occupier from the enraged land of Jerusalem,
Rid your house of that one, that Zionist in his humiliation,
Write 'death, death, death to Israel' with flowing blood,
And with the bleeding body cause death, death, death to Israel"

*Text on screen in Hebrew: "Death to Israel"*

*Hamas leader Nizar Rayan:* "[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, O Jews. The soldiers of Muhammad have started to return."

_Visuals: Funeral of Israeli terror victims_
*Song:* "Be red death. Have no mercy on the army of aggression that wears the clothes of the soldier and the settler."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has reported on the numerous events at which the PA has honored terrorist murderer Baha Alyan who together with an accomplice boarded a bus in Jerusalem in 2015 and shot and stabbed passengers, murdering 3 Israeli civilians.

Before choosing to murder Israelis, Baha Alyan, who was killed during the attack and classified by the PA as a "Martyr," organized a "human reading chain" in Jerusalem at which Palestinians lined up to read books. Since his terror attack, the PA has been promoting murderer Alyan as a role model for Palestinians to encourage reading. It doesn't bother the PA that Alyan was a murderer. On the contrary! It was only after his terror attack that he was turned into a role model.

So what is the PA's real message? 
*Read like a murderer* or *murder like a reader?* 

Since Palestinian murderers have been honored for years as role models by the PA, the PA's new added message is the importance of reading. The importance of killing has already been established. So the PA chose a terrorist to pass on and emphasize the new message: Reading - like killing Israelis - is also a positive value in the PA. 

A recent public library event in the PA makes this clear.

The Public Library in the El-Bireh Municipality held a "cultural evening" called "In the Presence of the Martyrs" at which it honored no less than 4 terrorists - 3 of them murderers - and among them Baha Alyan. 




[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 2, 2018]

(full article online)

Read like a murderer or murder like a reader? What's the PA's message? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

The islamic gee-had as propagated in the hate and war manual known as the Koran is vastly different than the retaliatory measures employed by Israel. 
*



Israel’s warning to Hamas of impending destruction
of Al-Aqsa TV building caught on camera*

 by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Israel’s warning to Hamas of impending destruction of Al-Aqsa TV building caught on camera - PMW Bulletins

Israel continues to warn Palestinian civilians before attacking strategic targets, to minimize civilian casualties.

One remarkable example can be seen and heard in the video of the last minutes of broadcasts from Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV station. Al-Aqsa TV has been inciting to murder of Israelis and Jews for years, and yesterday, Israel decided to destroy its main broadcast building. However, as can be seen and heard, the station received ample warning from the Israeli army and air force to get all their staff out of the building before it was destroyed. In the video, the faint sounds of the three warning missiles that hit the building, as well as shouting of the TV staff can be heard in the background:


​ 



 


WAFA, the official PA news agency, and official PA TV described Israel’s warning and the building’s destruction as follows:

*WAFA, the official PA news agency:*
"Israeli planes fired three missile alerts, before F16 planes targeted with at least three missiles the al-Quds TV headquarters, destroying it completely... No injuries were reported." 
[WAFA, Nov. 12,


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the indictment, Ami Ayoub Fawsi Zamari had in July 2018 "contacted another person living in Gaza who gave the defendant identifying details of Daniela Weiss and Moshe Zer and asked him to follow the two in order to carry out an attack against them".

"The defendant made observations and photographed the home of Moshe Zar and the entrance to the settlement where Daniela Weiss lives," continued the indictment. "The Defendant also carried out observations at a Jewish religious site in the Samaria area, with the aim of planting an explosive charge. The defendant was unable to execute his plans because of his arrest by the security forces."

(full article online)

Palestinian Arab indicted for plotting to kill Daniella Weiss


----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Oct. 14, 2018

















Headline: “The [Fatah] Shabiba [Movement] organizes a lecture in Jinsafut on the racist nation-state law”

      “The [Fatah] Shabiba Student Movement’s Qalqilya branch organized a cultural lecture on the racist [Jewish] nation-state law (see note below –Ed.) at the Girls’ High School in Jinsafut… with the participation of lecturer Ahmed Taher Oudeh…

Oudeh… spoke about the nation-state law, which targets the Arab Palestinian identity, establishes the Jewish identity of what is called ‘the State of Israel,’ revokes the right to self-determination of the Palestinians of 1948 who live in the occupied Interior (i.e., Palestinian term for Israel), and revokes our historical first right to the land.”

(full article online)

Speaker at Fatah organized lecture refers to Arab Israelis as “the Palestinians of 1948 who live in the occupied Interior” - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA daily refers to Israel as “territories that were occupied in 1948” 

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Sept. 16, 2018

Headline: “The Jenin branch of the Association of Workers Unions of Palestine demanded to ease the procedures at the Jalame checkpoint”

     “The Jenin branch of the Association of Workers Unions of Palestine demanded that the Israeli bodies ease the procedures that are being implemented at the Jalame checkpoint, as it is the only checkpoint that serves as the entry of civilians into the territories that were occupied in 1948 (i.e., Israel).”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mufti rules East Jerusalem resident Alah Kirsh, killed in Route 90 crash that claimed lives of 5 others last week, is ‘not a member of the Muslim nation’

(full article online)

Palestinian shunned for selling land to Jews to be buried in Jewish cemetery


----------



## Sixties Fan

The US administration has been working to bring the Arab states to 1949. That is to say, accepting that Israel is a legitimate, permanent part of the region. And some Arab states are beginning to recognize Israel’s rightful place. In Islamic history, there were Jews, even in Medina, who are part of that. The playing of Israel’s national anthem in Abu Dhabi and Israel’s female minister of culture and sport visiting its Grand Mosque are part of that.

These gestures — as much stemming from Sunni Arab fear of Shiite Iran as they are a sudden desire to set history right — increase Palestinian angst. This angst often leads to rockets, stabbing attacks, and other Hamas or Fatah-driven attempts to change the regional and international discourse back to them.

(full article online)

How Hamas Wins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Remember When Abbas Regularly Threatened To Quit? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

I'm looking for a Palestinian rock band.

I'm sure Tinmore can find me one.

He'll be on it like a pig snuffling for truffles.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> I'm looking for a Palestinian rock band.
> 
> I'm sure Tinmore can find me one.
> 
> He'll be on it like a pig snuffling for truffles.


Palestinian Rock Band or Palestinians With Rocks ?


----------



## Hollie

I can’t think of any location on the planet where a Cult such as the Islamic Death Cult has become as much a danger to itself as to everyone around it. 
*



Read like a murderer *
*or*
*Murder like a reader?

Read like a murderer or murder like a reader? What's the PA's message? - PMW Bulletins*

*What's the PA's message?*


*Palestinian Public Library event honors 4 terrorists at book launch, 3 of them murderers. Among them killer of 3, Baha Alyan - PA's role model to promote reading*
By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Palestinian Media Watch has reported on the numerous events at which the PA has honored terrorist murderer Baha Alyan who together with an accomplice boarded a bus in Jerusalem in 2015 and shot and stabbed passengers, murdering 3 Israeli civilians.

Before choosing to murder Israelis, Baha Alyan, who was killed during the attack and classified by the PA as a "Martyr," organized a "human reading chain" in Jerusalem at which Palestinians lined up to read books. Since his terror attack, the PA has been promoting murderer Alyan as a role model for Palestinians to encourage reading. It doesn't bother the PA that Alyan was a murderer. On the contrary! It was only after his terror attack that he was turned into a role model.

So what is the PA's real message? 
*Read like a murderer* or *murder like a reader?* 

Since Palestinian murderers have been honored for years as role models by the PA, the PA's new added message is the importance of reading. The importance of killing has already been established. So the PA chose a terrorist to pass on and emphasize the new message: Reading - like killing Israelis - is also a positive value in the PA. 

A recent public library event in the PA makes this clear.

The Public Library in the El-Bireh Municipality held a "cultural evening" called "In the Presence of the Martyrs" at which it honored no less than 4 terrorists - 3 of them murderers - and among them Baha Alyan.


----------



## Hollie

Another of the Death Cult inspired rants that are so commonly belched out by the impaired.

I can’t help but chuckle at the term “revolutionary” that so often accompanies the titles that Islamic retrogrades assign to their Cult groups.



_Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Mphammad Al-Lahham said that Palestinian diplomatic efforts must be combined with "means of struggle." He said that in 1969, Fatah had shelled the building that is now the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem and that Fatah should not be expected to "remain calm regarding the crimes of the occupation." Al-Lahham talked about Ashraf Na'alwa, who shot and killed two Israelis at the Barkan Industrial Park on October 7, 2018 and said that there are millions of Palestinians "just like him who are ready to rub the nose of this occupation in the mud once again." Na'alwa murdered his co-workers Kim Levengrond-Yehezkel and Ziv Hajbi. Muhammad Al-Lahham was interviewed on Palestine TV on November 12, 2018._

"Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Mohammad Al-Lahham Reminisces On Fatah's 1969 Shelling Of Building Now Housing U.S. Embassy In Jerusalem, Adds: There Are Millions Of Palestinians Like (Terrorist) Ashraf Na'alwa




“_There Are Millions Of Palestinians Like (Terrorist) Ashraf Na'alwa”_
_
_
Right you are, Mo. There are two, competing Cults of your Islamic terrorist heroes who are as much a danger to each other as everyone else unfortunate enough to be near you.


----------



## Hollie

It really is infuriating that the Arabs-Moslems have turned entire swarths of Gaza into a pigsty while simultaneously begging the West for more welfare fraud money. 

While the various Islamic terrorist franchises make billions of dollars for those at the top of the welfare fraud syndicate, Arabs-Moslems poison the ground, groundwater and the air with burning tires. 




Seawater pollution raises concerns of waterborne diseases and environmental hazards in the Gaza Strip


----------



## Sixties Fan

_*The following is a longer excerpt of Fatah Movement Deputy Chairmans' statement that the differences between Fatah and Hamas are minor:*_

Headline: "Al-Aloul: The sole and fundamental conflict is with the occupation"

"Fatah Movement Deputy Chairman [and Fatah Central Committee member] Mahmoud Al-Aloul said... at a ceremony to mark the 14th anniversary of the death of [former PLO Chairman and PA President] Yasser Arafat as a Martyr (_Shahid_) that our people is still being subjected to aggression, and that the most despicable and grave kinds of crimes are still being committed against it...
He explained: 'The Fatah Movement has always adhered to the principle and will never deviate from it - the only conflict is with the Israeli occupation, and the distinctions and differences between the Fatah Movement and the Hamas Movement are nothing but a secondary disagreement. The proof of this is that our sons from Fatah are standing in the battle field and have made many sacrifices in the Gaza Strip.'
...
Al-Aloul demanded that priority always be given to the struggle against the aggression, and said: 'At this occasion, we repeat the call that [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas has made on several opportunities. We call on our brothers in Hamas - for the sake of Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque and for the sake of the future, freedom, and independence - to work immediately to end the [Fatah-Hamas] rift and to return to the bosom of the people and the homeland.'"
[Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 14, 2018]

(full article online)

Fatah and Hamas mock Israelis fleeing rocket fire - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Graffic photos)

Just an antisemitic pro-Hamas music video  (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the comments section on the post in response to the criticism, Sarsour singled out the Anti-Defamation League. In an online petition in support of Omar, Sarsour wrote that she was alarmed by “organizations like the ADL using their platforms to attack a trailblazing Black Muslim woman in order to undermine advocacy for Palestinian human rights.”

The post raised the ire of the American Jewish Committee which responded in a tweet that: “Accusing Jews of dual loyalty is one of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic tropes. No surprise to see it coming from @LSarsour. How long will progressive leaders continue to look the other way in the face of this hate?

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour ripped for accusing US Jews of dual loyalty


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas does not want his people and the rest of the world to know that his security forces are arresting women for criticizing a social security law or providing financial aid to Palestinian families in the Gaza Strip.


Unlike Jbara and Marab'eh, Ahed Tamimi was lucky to be arrested by Israel. Had she been arrested by the Palestinian Authority, no one would ever have known.


This attitude is another example of the anti-Israel bias of the international media and community. It is yet another example of how the West gives the Palestinians a pass to violate human rights and crack down on dissent.

(full article online)

Palestinians Arresting Women; Where are the Media?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What Christians all over the Islamic lands, including Gaza and Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria go through ]

Tale of a Christian Mother in a Non-Christian Land


----------



## Sixties Fan

The world of hate that the PA creates for its children includes messages of violence against Israel, teaching that Israel has no right to exist and all of Israel is Palestinian, and that Israel's eventual replacement by "Palestine" is inevitable.

One recent episode of the PA TV children's program _The Best Home_ included all of these messages.

A girl recited a poem that called for "vengeance" and "liberation" and for "war that will... destroy the Zionist's soul":















(full article online)

Palestinian children's TV - a world of hate - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

He claimed that the Israeli minister’s visit to the Temple Mount was carried out on instructions from the Israeli government to “storm the Aqsa Mosque on a daily basis.”

Mahmoud said that anyone who takes part in storming mosques and churches in Jerusalem, “represents this bloody ideology, which is even banned under Israeli laws.”

Firas al-Dibs, a spokesman for the Waqf Department in east Jerusalem, claimed that Ariel “stormed the mosque accompanied by dozens of settlers.” He described the tour as “suspicious.”

(full article online)

Palestinians: Jewish tours of Temple Mount part of Israeli religious war


----------



## Sixties Fan

As in the case of the Ami Horowitz video above, there is a lot of ignorance out there in the claims made by people claiming to be looking out for the humanitarian rights of Palestinian Arabs.

But also a lot of malignance as well.

It's almost as if the Palestinian Arabs are not their primary concern of some of these critics of Israel.

(full article online)

Defending Palestinian Rights Requires Knowing What Rights They Have (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Knife-wielding Arab arrested in Hevron


----------



## Sixties Fan

But it was a comment from Mercy Morganfield to Shook's post that really identified the specific outrages that Bland, Mallory, Sarsour and Perez do:

 As an African American and past president of the DC chapter’s Women’s March. I agree with you, Ms. Shook.* I’d repeatedly denounced Tamika’s anti-Semitic rhetoric in public and in private. I was shushed by Bob Bland as she protected Tamika.* I was shushed by others who didnt want their criticism to reflect badly on women. But not only have they not held up the Unity Principles, they refused to give the chapters any accountability for the money they receive in donations and grants. The travel with a glam squad. *They employ The Nation of Islam as security detail. *They fly their family and friends everywhere. They stay in 5-Star hotels. They pay themselves a monthly stipend. They refuse to show financial records when asked. They want to trademark the name Women’s March although most of the original marchers have left. They are not only non-inclusive of certain segments of women but* Tamika and Linda have betrayed all women by their subservience to radical religious beliefs that do not believe in equal rights for women.* Tamika wrote about “enemies of Jesus” just as any right-wing anti-semitic establishment would write. All six should step down. It is a board of six friends and zero accountability. The four mentioned and two more friends. No involvement of state chapters who actually do all the work. I don’t think they will resign, not as long as millions of dollars are available for their personal use. This happens when four tokens are chosen. *They were handpicked to make the movement look less white. That is not intersectionality. That is tokenism. And tokenism attracts predators.*


(full article online)

Women's March hires Nation of Islam to do security. Yes, they pay a hate group. (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Even Arabs recognize that they are Arabs from Arabia and not Palestinians from Palestine ]

PA TV has also had several kids recite the following poem teaching that "Zion is Satan with a tail": 










Similarly, both PA TV and the Fatah-run Awdah TV broadcast a cartoon teaching children that Jews do the work on earth for "the satans": 




(full article online)

On Universal Children's Day - look what the PA teaches its children!    - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

It goes beyond comprehension that Arabs-Moslems choose to wallow in their own sewage while Hamas and Fatah membership pad their personal bank accounts.


----------



## Hollie

It’s just... uncanny, how the _The_ _Islam _manages to attract the worst of the worst.

_On November 16, 2018, Sheikh Hussein Abu Ayada, head of the Tribes and Reconciliation Department at Hamas Ministry of Interior, delivered a Friday sermon in Rafah, dressed in military fatigues. Addressing Hamas and Islamic Jihad military wings, Sheikh Abu Ayada shouted: “Tie me to a missile and fire it at Tel Aviv… Enough with the humiliation.” Abu Ayada also criticized the Gulf states, claiming that they oppose the Hamas-Fatah reconciliation and “support the Jews in the destruction of Gaza.” The sermon was filmed by Haidara Al-Sharif and excerpts from it were posted by Jihad Al-Sharif on his Facebook page. Audio and video effects of fire and missile were included in the original.

_
"Imam Hussein Abu Ayada, Rafah Friday Sermon: "Tie Me to A Missile and Fire It at Tel Aviv"I "


A better solution would be to paint a smiley face on a missile already in Tel Aviv and then send it hurtling toward Abu at twice the speed of sound thus Sheikh’en things up.


----------



## Hollie

*The Death Cultists in the islamic terrorist enclave lead by Fatah, are maintaining those attributes which breed generation after generation of new Death Cultists.

On Universal Children's Day - look what the PA teaches its children!    - PMW Bulletins


On the occasion of Universal Children's Day *
*- look at what the PA teaches its children!*


By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

On the occasion of Universal Children's Day - here's a taste of what the Palestinian Authority teaches Palestinian children. 

For over two decades, Palestinian Media Watch has exposed the PA's abuse of its own children with indoctrinating messages, teaching them that 
-   Jews are "the most evil among creations," and Israel is "the enemy," Jews are "Allah's enemy" and "Zion is Satan with a tail" 
-   Terrorist murderers of Jews/Israelis are heroes, and terrorist "Martyrs" are role models 
-   Israel doesn't have a right to exist 

Today, November 20th, is known as Universal Children's Day because it is the day the UN General Assembly adopted the Declaration of the Rights of the Child (1959) and the Convention of the Rights of the Child (1989). 

The PA joined the UN's Convention of the Rights of the Child in 2014. 

Coinciding with Universal Children's Day, PMW Director Itamar Marcus will be addressing Canadian MPs today, showing them that the PA is bringing up Palestinian children in a toxic environment in which they are constantly exposed to messages cultivating hate and encouraging terror. 

Having reviewed PA school books and broadcasts on official PA TV, then Senator Hillary Clinton stated in 2007 that the PA "profoundly poisons the minds of these children." 

Unfortunately, this is still true today.

The PA and Fatah leadership is abusing Palestinian children by presenting terrorists as heroes, "Martyrs" as role models, and glorifying the murder of Jews and Israelis. Sports tournaments, names of schools, school books, cultural events, and even music videos glorify terrorist murderers and urge Palestinian youth to aspire to kill and be killed. 

Jews are presented as lowly, wicked creatures, and Israel is "the enemy," and "Satan with a tail." 

Israel has no right to exist in any borders, and the PA teaches kids to see all of Israel in addition to the PA areas as "Palestine" - A "Palestine" they will "liberate" and "return to," and which will "return" to them in its entirety.

The following are examples of these poisonous PA messages to children:

*Jews are "the most evil among creations," and Israel is "the enemy" and "Satan's project"* 

The PA teaches children to see Jews as mean, impure creatures, who descend from "apes and pigs." The following video shows a girl on a PA TV children's program reciting a poem that presents Jews as "the most evil among creations":


----------



## Sixties Fan

*You don’t need to live in Gaza to spin the news (or ‘how ITV pulled a fast one’)*
On the 11th May, Walid met ITV news correspondent Emma Murphy, from ITV. Walid had gone to ‘report’ from the scene.





When they met, he had on his flak jacket, camera and was possibly carrying a helmet with ‘Press’ written on it: This is a selfie of two journalists:





At some point, Walid removed the jacket, put down the camera and Emma used him in an interview, describing him as a ‘Palestinian protestor’.





Which seems both a little ‘contrived’ and ‘innovative’ to say the least.

*Hamas and Corbyn*
And just when I thought I was leaving the Labour Party behind, there it was, back on my computer screen. Incredibly, Walid Mahmoud manages a Facebook page called ‘we support Jeremy Corbyn‘:







This is a screenshot from the page ‘We support Jeremy Corbyn’:

(full article online)

Why are Jeremy Corbyn FB pages managed by Hamas puppets in Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ben Shapiro reveals a disturbing myth about radical Islam


----------



## Sixties Fan

Are terrorists good at football? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA court sentences Palestinians to 15 years hard labor for selling land to Jews


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> PA court sentences Palestinians to 15 years hard labor for selling land to Jews



Nope.  No apartheid going on here. /sarcasm


----------



## Hollie

In the relevant, first world, we often call such proscriptions as forced religion and the glorification of mass murder / suicide as _eccentric_ or _hateful or_ even _totalitarian_. In many locations within the happy-fun moslem Middle East, notions of freedom of religion are dealt with as an imprisonable offense (or a capital offense, if the right people get their hands on you) and mass murder / suicide is something every young Death Cultist should strive toward. 
_

Sheikh Iyad Abu Funun appeared in a segment on Hamas' Al-Aqsa TV (Gaza Strip) in which he gave viewers advice on how to properly carry out terror attacks. The video shows two young men cleaning and loading guns with a mobile phone on the table next to them, and Abu Funun explained that this is a "deadly mistake." He warned that merely having a phone in your vicinity is enough for you to be tracked. He also said that the attackers must not use their own cars, use their regular routes, or hold their weapons during transit in a way that is visible. He also urged attackers to avoid behavior that appears out of the ordinary before the attack and said that the attackers must hide their weapons and return to normal life immediately after the attack. Abu Funun said: "The more well-organized the attack is and the larger its impact – with many dead soldiers and settlers – the more the attack reverberates [in our society]." The segment aired on October 20, 2018. To see more videos by Abu Funun, see MEMRI TV clips 6541, 6376, 4702, 5115, 5307, 5152, and 4489._

"Tips for Terror on Hamas TV: Host Iyad Abu Funun Suggests Security Precautions for Attacks with "Many Dead Soldiers and Settlers""


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas had tasked operatives in Judea and Samaria with building a terror network in an attempt to commit a series of deadly terror attacks within Israel. Following their recruitment, Hamas taught the operatives how to manufacture explosives and schooled them in target selection.

"This activity of the Hamas military wing joins a long list of attempted terrorist attacks directed by Hamas by recruiting activists in Judea and Samaria.," said a senior Shin Bet officer.

"These attempts have been foiled by the Shin Bet in recent years and have led to the imprisonment of hundreds of young people in Judea and Samaria, among them students and young women, thereby harming the fabric of life in Judea and Samaria."

Hamas had decided to carry attacks in Judea and Samaria in order to escalate the security situation in the region. The Shin Bet stressed that the plan differed from previous efforts in both its scope and the damage that the attacks potentially would have caused.

(full article online)

Breaking | Hamas terror plots in Judea and Samaria foiled


----------



## Sixties Fan

Several critics of Sarsour weighed in on her apology on social media. Israeli journalist Haviv Rettig Gur tweeted, “Why would Linda Sarsour’s not-actually-an-apology-for-associating-with-a-bigot be relevant? Where’s Mallory on Farrakhan? This is damage control, not growth or repentance. Nothing is conceded here.”

Pro-Israel activist Arsen Ostrovsky wrote sarcastically, “This ‘apology’ by Linda Sarsour is about as sincere as tobacco companies apologizing for causing lung cancer.”

(full article online)

In ‘Apology,’ Women’s March Leader Linda Sarsour Fails to Mention Her Own Antisemitic Statements or Farrakhan


----------



## Hollie

Billions of welfare dollars showered on Arabs-Moslems and the vast majority squandered. 






Raw sewage flowing into Mediterranean poisons Gaza Strip beachfront - Chicago Tribune


----------



## Sixties Fan

What the former Soviet Union can teach us about Linda Sarsour (Alex) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a speech at Al-Quds Open University, Fatah Central Committee member and Fatah Commissioner Abbas Zaki urged new students to seek death for Jerusalem. Zaki shouted to the young people:

"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Cursed is anyone who doesn't sacrifice for Jerusalem!"

Zaki continued:
"What did [Arafat] say? He said: 'Rise! The gates of Paradise have opened.' He who asks for death - life will be given to him. Those who die [naturally] are the cowards. But real men approach death with a smile. Do not be afraid - death is in the hands of Allah. Rush toward death and life will be given to you!"
[Official Facebook page of Abbas Zaki, Nov. 19, 2018]

(full article online)

“Real men approach death with a smile” - Fatah leader tells students - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

A note in pants and phone in drugstore: How Israel stopped a Hamas attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Belligerent Statement, PA Calls ‘Occupied’ Jerusalem ‘Symbol of the Existence and Survival’ of Palestinian People


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al-Fayez stressed that "The king can not give up Jerusalem. The subject of Hashemite tutelage is very important, there is a spiritual relationship between the Hashemite kings and Jerusalem."

"Jerusalem and the establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders is a red line, there can be no solution except for the satisfaction of the Palestinian people."

At no point did al-Fayez say that Jerusalem must be the Palestinian capital. Moreover, he seems to be insisting that Jordan maintain control over (at least) the religious sites in Jerusalem even if Palestinians gain it as their capital.

This means that Jordan does not intend for Palestinians to have complete control over what the world calls east Jerusalem in any peace deal!

Any sovereign state would be insulted at the idea of another country controlling part of its capital, but Jordan seems to be insisting on having some control over Jerusalem even under Palestinian sovereignty.

(full article online)

Jordan apparently want to keep some control over Jerusalem even if it becomes a Palestinian capital: "The king cannot give up Jerusalem" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/11/...-palestinians-for-terrorism-shin-bet-reveals/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In Belligerent Statement, PA Calls ‘Occupied’ Jerusalem ‘Symbol of the Existence and Survival’ of Palestinian People


In the PA’s view, the only potential resolution to the conflict with Israel was the “enforcement of international laws that will bring an end to the occupation and spread justice, peace and stability in the region and the world.”​
Enforcing the law? What a bizarre concept. The Palestinians have been calling for that for a long time. Israel is strictly opposed to that for obvious reasons.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Belligerent Statement, PA Calls ‘Occupied’ Jerusalem ‘Symbol of the Existence and Survival’ of Palestinian People
> 
> 
> 
> In the PA’s view, the only potential resolution to the conflict with Israel was the “enforcement of international laws that will bring an end to the occupation and spread justice, peace and stability in the region and the world.”​
> Enforcing the law? What a bizarre concept. The Palestinians have been calling for that for a long time. Israel is strictly opposed to that for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...


I suppose in the alternate reality of Islamic fascism, Arabs-Moslems calling for enforcement of international law is accomplished by acts of islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Sometimes, the scale of destruction caused by Islamic misfits is difficult to believe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Belligerent Statement, PA Calls ‘Occupied’ Jerusalem ‘Symbol of the Existence and Survival’ of Palestinian People
> 
> 
> 
> In the PA’s view, the only potential resolution to the conflict with Israel was the “enforcement of international laws that will bring an end to the occupation and spread justice, peace and stability in the region and the world.”​
> Enforcing the law? What a bizarre concept. The Palestinians have been calling for that for a long time. Israel is strictly opposed to that for obvious reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose in the alternate reality of Islamic fascism, Arabs-Moslems calling for enforcement of international law is accomplished by acts of islamic terrorism.
Click to expand...

Ooooo, you played a terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Belligerent Statement, PA Calls ‘Occupied’ Jerusalem ‘Symbol of the Existence and Survival’ of Palestinian People
> 
> 
> 
> In the PA’s view, the only potential resolution to the conflict with Israel was the “enforcement of international laws that will bring an end to the occupation and spread justice, peace and stability in the region and the world.”​
> Enforcing the law? What a bizarre concept. The Palestinians have been calling for that for a long time. Israel is strictly opposed to that for obvious reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose in the alternate reality of Islamic fascism, Arabs-Moslems calling for enforcement of international law is accomplished by acts of islamic terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooo, you played a terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


Its funny to watch you cut and paste the same slogans / YouTube vidoes through every thread.


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Family to Foe: Haniyeh’s Betrayal of Israeli “Family”


----------



## Hollie

Parts of the disposable population in the Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates.


----------



## Sixties Fan

AMP’s Palestine Convention Has Way Too Many Terror Connections to Ignore


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> AMP’s Palestine Convention Has Way Too Many Terror Connections to Ignore


Ah, more of Israel's terrorist canard.


----------



## toobfreak

Art__Allm said:


> *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 *




Who are the Palestinians?  Obviously, they are:

The People no one really wants.
The People no one really has a need for.
The People whom really don't contribute anything useful.

The People there really is no place for in the world.
And like fleas, they have refused to go away, in the Israeli's hair ever since, making it their problem blaming them for all the problems they themselves create.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> AMP’s Palestine Convention Has Way Too Many Terror Connections to Ignore
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, more of Israel's terrorist canard.
Click to expand...

Good luck removing Your heroes from the WANTED lists.
5,000,000$ is really too much for Your Jihadi heroes,
but that's the price the Defense Dept. placed on their heads.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Caravan* is a weekly TV show on Jordan’s privately-owned Ro'ya TV channel, evidently the most watched of Jordan’s TV channels. Caravan aims explicitly at a young audience and tries hard to seem hip in a vaguely Western way. In its October 23, 2018 edition, the show's attention was entirely given over to Ahlam and Nizar Tamimi, Jordan's best-known husband-and-wife team of convicted, unrepentant Palestinian Arab murderers. And as becomes painfully clear, a pair of well-loved Jordanian heroes.

We asked some Arabic-speaking friends to review it and give us their impressions. Here's what one told us:
The Tamimis were on for 45 minutes. There wasn’t anything especially headline-worthy of anything they said. They never talked about their terrorist act, just their life in prison. You would think they had been sentenced to jail for parking tickets. The host of the show was fawning all over them, calling them _special guests _over and over again. The husband said “we are living the best life possible now”. The details of their so called heroic imprisonment were quite banal. How they smuggled letters to each other, how they got hope from programs such as the one they were on that talked about prisoners in Israeli jails. How they survived mentally by “challenging” the prison system... At one point, asked what her ambitions were at the age she became a terrorist, she rambled on but ended up praising Jordan and King Abdullah... Watching the show, I was literally cursing into my phone... 

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 24-Nov-18: How Jordan's mainstream media showcase a couple of role-model jihadist murderers


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's a video of Islamic Jihad female terrorists learning how to use guns. Most of them are using wooden replicas of guns, but some are actually shooting. The video is interspersed with photos of female "martyr" heroes who have blown up and stabbed Jews.

(full article online)

Islamic Jihad celebrates female terrorists (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The National and Islamic Forces, the supreme coordinating body of the Palestinian Arab organizations, on Saturday called on the Palestinian Arab public to participate in events marking the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People this coming Thursday, November 29.

The purpose of this day is to express the Palestinian demand to implement the decisions of the international institutions. The main protest will take place outside the UN headquarters in Ramallah at noon and will express protest at the UN partition resolution which recognized the need to establish a Jewish state. That resolution was approved on November 29, 1947.

(full article online)

PA organizations plan confrontations with IDF


----------



## Mindful

The wars between Israel and its Arab neighbors were fought for many years on the battlefield between armies. In recent decades the arena of conflict has shifted from hand-to-hand combat to a war of narratives.  

Everybody agrees that the current affluence of Israel, its modern infrastructure and economy were developed by the Jews. The Palestinian Arab narrative is that as the ancient, indigenous people of Palestine they feel dispossessed and they deserve to take over Israel’s riches. Jewish claims to their heritage in the land of Israel are supported by abundant archaeological artifacts and historical records. 

Meanwhile, there are no records to support the Palestinian narrative. In history, art and literature there is no trace at all of any Muslim people referred to by anybody as “Palestinians.” 

Debunking the claim that “Palestinians” are the indigenous people of Israel - Blogs - Jerusalem Post


----------



## Mindful

You don't think it's funny, Tinmore.


----------



## Hollie

Private jets to shuttle the Islamic trrrorists in Hamas (Hamas being the second wealthiest franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc).
_
Ahh, the wonders of the Islamic terrorist welfare pecking order.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> You don't think it's funny, Tinmore.



Don't embarrass him, it's already hard enough for him to see those Palestinian officials reminding everyone of their recent  Egyptian and Saudi roots.


----------



## Hollie

Why are they a bunch of nutters? Well, they’re not. We can do away with the term _moslem fanatics_. They are only piously following islamic precepts from the koran and the hadith. The same as the ghoulish _holy_ _warriors_™ sawing off the heads of kuffar caught on moslem lands. Read the book.



“Gaza Imam Ahmad Okasha: Jihad in Palestine - the Most Obvious Jihad on the Face of the Earth" 


Gaza Imam Ahmad Okasha said that the Jihad in Palestine is the most obvious Jihad on the face of the Earth. He quoted a hadith about the Muslims killing the Jews before Judgement Day and said that there could be no doubt about Jihad when Muslim are fighting Jews who have occupied their land. Okasha's statements aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) on November 5, 2018.


----------



## Mindful

In an interview with The *Jewish Channel*, Newt Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs." His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria."Dec 13, 2


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hass notes that Hamas and the IDF are engaged in a competition over who had been more humiliated by the exposure of the special cell’s activity. What’s certain, she comments, is that turning humanitarian aid into a tool in the service of Israeli military intelligence contributed to feelings of vulnerability and seclusion in Hamas.

So, all in all, not such a bad thing.

(full article online)

A Suspicious Hamas Tightens Controls on Foreign Aid Workers


----------



## Sixties Fan

Column One: Hamas and Fatah unmasked


----------



## Sixties Fan

Check out this abstract of a paper published at the Middle East Journal of Culture and Communication by Atef Alshaer, who lectures at the University of Westminster and who wrote this while at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London:

(full article online)

British professor an unabashed fan of Hamas and its "poetry" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

*What other "refugee" group has conferred their status from one generation to the next?   Where are the German refugees of WWII?  That is #PalestinianPrivilege*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Resalah reports that the terrorist, Ramzi Adnan Abu Yabes, 32, was the head of the nursing department at the Arab Rehabilitation Society in Bethlehem.

This is not the first doctor or other medical professional involved in attacks against Israelis.

Medical professionals are taught the basic concept of "First, do no harm." Apparently there is a Palestinian exception to that rule.


UPDATE:





(full article online)

"First do no harm": Today's terrorist was a head of nursing department ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

It was only recently that Abbas Zaki, a member of the Central Committee of Fatah and a senior Palestinian leader, addressed first-year students at Al Quds Open University in Nablus.

In his address, which was monitored by Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), Zaki told the first-year students that real men court death if it means advancing the Palestinian cause, that they are cursed if they do not sacrifice for Jerusalem and that those who die a normal death are cowards.

“Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Cursed is anyone who doesn’t sacrifice for Jerusalem,” he told the students.

A little while before that, WAFA, the official Palestinian Authority (PA) news agency, ran a piece on matriculation day for Grade 12 students, noting that 16 of their contemporaries in the same grade had been killed during attacks on Israelis that year. The news agency said that their path to martyrdom made their families proud and that those who died in that way showed the path to excellence and greatness.

(full article online)

Ottawa briefed on Palestinian Authority’s glorification of terrorism


----------



## Sixties Fan

The charge sheet said the man told interrogators that he was sent to carry out the arson attack by a Salafist group in Gaza, in order to assist Hamas in its war against Israel. However, the Shin Bet determined that his claim was not true.

Israel regularly arrests Gazans who cross the fence into Israel; most of them are looking to escape the impoverished Strip. In some cases, the Gazans carry simple weapons in the apparent hope of drawing charges and being incarcerated in Israel, rather than being sent back to Gaza, where they may face punishment by the Hamas terror group, which rules the enclave.

(full article online)

After 7 tries, suspected Gazan arsonist finally reaches goal of jail in Israel


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
*※→*  Sixties Fan, et al,

I've seen comments like this before, but did not know the validity of such claims.  Or maybe I was interpreting it incorrectly.



Sixties Fan said:


> The charge sheet said the man told interrogators that he was sent to carry out the arson attack by a Salafist group in Gaza, in order to assist Hamas in its war against Israel. However, the Shin Bet determined that his claim was not true.
> 
> Israel regularly arrests Gazans who cross the fence into Israel; most of them are looking to escape the impoverished Strip. In some cases, the Gazans carry simple weapons in the apparent hope of drawing charges and being incarcerated in Israel, rather than being sent back to Gaza, where they may face punishment by the Hamas terror group, which rules the enclave.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> After 7 tries, suspected Gazan arsonist finally reaches goal of jail in Israel


*(COMMENT)*

So the story is that some Gazans would rather be in an Israeli Prison, rather than be a free Gazan citizen???

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> *※→*  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I've seen comments like this before; but did not know the validity of such claims.  Or may be I was interpreting it incoorectly.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The charge sheet said the man told interrogators that he was sent to carry out the arson attack by a Salafist group in Gaza, in order to assist Hamas in its war against Israel. However, the Shin Bet determined that his claim was not true.
> 
> Israel regularly arrests Gazans who cross the fence into Israel; most of them are looking to escape the impoverished Strip. In some cases, the Gazans carry simple weapons in the apparent hope of drawing charges and being incarcerated in Israel, rather than being sent back to Gaza, where they may face punishment by the Hamas terror group, which rules the enclave.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> After 7 tries, suspected Gazan arsonist finally reaches goal of jail in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So the story is that some Gazians would rather be in an Israeli Prison, rather than be a free Gazian citizen???
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This goes on a lot.  They have heard from those who have spent some time in Israeli prisons, how they were treated, how they get education, etc.... and choose to commit one crime or another, usually non fatal, in order to be able to get away from Gaza.  The same may happen also with some from areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> In an interview with The *Jewish Channel*, Newt Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs." His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria."Dec 13, 2


Interesting, did they just fall out of the sky?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an interview with The *Jewish Channel*, Newt Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs." His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria."Dec 13, 2
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, did they just fall out of the sky?
Click to expand...


Figuratively, yes, in 1967 when an Egyptian proclaimed “we are Pal’istanians”. The Islamic terrorist welfare fraud has expanded since then, at least until President Trump did the right thing and said ”no more”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an interview with The *Jewish Channel*, Newt Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs." His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria."Dec 13, 2
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, did they just fall out of the sky?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Figuratively, yes, in 1967 when an Egyptian proclaimed “we are Pal’istanians”. The Islamic terrorist welfare fraud has expanded since then, at least until President Trump did the right thing and said ”no more”.
Click to expand...

Ducking another question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an interview with The *Jewish Channel*, Newt Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs." His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria."Dec 13, 2
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, did they just fall out of the sky?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Figuratively, yes, in 1967 when an Egyptian proclaimed “we are Pal’istanians”. The Islamic terrorist welfare fraud has expanded since then, at least until President Trump did the right thing and said ”no more”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ducking another question.
Click to expand...


I understand you find it difficult to respond to the salient points absent a YouTube video.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an interview with The *Jewish Channel*, Newt Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs." His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria."Dec 13, 2
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, did they just fall out of the sky?
Click to expand...


Mostly came from  Arabia, Egypt, Greece and Bosnia.

The biggest Arab clan in Israel is from Egypt, arrived Ibrahim Pasha army
The Husseini clan as well, as the Ayyoubi, arrived with Saladin army
The Nusaibeh clan arrived with the Caliphate army.


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC Falls for Obvious Hamas Propaganda (Again)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Oct. 14, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Headline: “The [Fatah] Shabiba [Movement] organizes a lecture in Jinsafut on the racist nation-state law”
> 
> “The [Fatah] Shabiba Student Movement’s Qalqilya branch organized a cultural lecture on the racist [Jewish] nation-state law (see note below –Ed.) at the Girls’ High School in Jinsafut… with the participation of lecturer Ahmed Taher Oudeh…
> 
> Oudeh… spoke about the nation-state law, which targets the Arab Palestinian identity, establishes the Jewish identity of what is called ‘the State of Israel,’ revokes the right to self-determination of the Palestinians of 1948 who live in the occupied Interior (i.e., Palestinian term for Israel), and revokes our historical first right to the land.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Speaker at Fatah organized lecture refers to Arab Israelis as “the Palestinians of 1948 who live in the occupied Interior” - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW


They have been called 48 Palestinians for as long as I remember.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> I'm looking for a Palestinian rock band.
> 
> I'm sure Tinmore can find me one.
> 
> He'll be on it like a pig snuffling for truffles.


Sure, no problem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida - Oct. 14, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Headline: “The [Fatah] Shabiba [Movement] organizes a lecture in Jinsafut on the racist nation-state law”
> 
> “The [Fatah] Shabiba Student Movement’s Qalqilya branch organized a cultural lecture on the racist [Jewish] nation-state law (see note below –Ed.) at the Girls’ High School in Jinsafut… with the participation of lecturer Ahmed Taher Oudeh…
> 
> Oudeh… spoke about the nation-state law, which targets the Arab Palestinian identity, establishes the Jewish identity of what is called ‘the State of Israel,’ revokes the right to self-determination of the Palestinians of 1948 who live in the occupied Interior (i.e., Palestinian term for Israel), and revokes our historical first right to the land.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Speaker at Fatah organized lecture refers to Arab Israelis as “the Palestinians of 1948 who live in the occupied Interior” - Denying Israel's right to exist | PMW
> 
> 
> 
> They have been called 48 Palestinians for as long as I remember.
Click to expand...


As opposed to the ‘67 Pal’istanian; the Pal’istanians invented by an Egyptian.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Official Facebook page of the PA Presidential Guards]


Palestinian children are still being taught that “Palestine” includes all of Israel. Decades after the Oslo Accords, the PA and Fatah still don’t recognize Israel's existence.

The photo above is a prime example of this. The Palestinian Authority Presidential Guards posted this image of a young boy making the “V” symbol for “victory” while holding a Palestinian flag. Behind him is the PA map clearly named “Palestine” that includes all of Israel and the PA areas. 

The names of the following Israeli cities and regions are written in the colors of the Palestinian flag on and around the map: “Haifa,” “Jerusalem,” “Safed,” “Nazareth,” “Jaffa,” “Tal Al-Rabia (i.e., Tel Aviv, see note below),” “Tiberias,” “Be’er Sheva,” “Ramle,” “Ashkelon,” “the Negev,” “Lod,” “Acre,” and “Beit Shean.” “Gaza” is also marked. The text on the image, states that Palestinians will “return”:

*Posted text:* “#Good_morning #The_Palestinian_Presidential_Guards”
Text on image: “Palestine We will surely return”
[Official Facebook page of the PA Presidential Guards, Nov. 25, 2018]

Another Palestinian way of saying that all of the State of Israel is “Palestine” is to describe it as stretching “from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.” This is one of the PA's popular slogans. Recently it was repeated by a university lecturer who described the “great Palestinian dream”:










(full article online)

The great Palestinian dream: To liberate "Palestine" from the River to the Sea - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Mindful

*The Palestinians No One Talks About.*
*by Bassam Tawil
November 27, 2018 at 5:00 am*

*The Palestinians No One Talks About*



The 3,903 Palestinians killed in Syria in the past seven years are of no interest to the Western correspondents and their editors.


The Western media's obsession with Israel has created the impression that the only Palestinians living on this planet are those who are residing in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. This impression does injustice to the Palestinians who are facing horrendous conditions, torture, and death in the Arab countries, especially Syria.


Who cares about the suffering of these Palestinians? No one. Every week, scores of foreign journalists travel to the Israel-Gaza border to report on clashes between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian rioters. Have any of these journalists thought of travelling to Syria or Lebanon to report about the atrocities that are being committed against the Palestinians there? Of course not. Why should they do so when the story lacks an anti-Israel angle?


The number of Palestinians killed in Syria will soon reach 4,000. Perhaps then, with that gruesome milestone reached, will Western correspondents in the Middle East wake up to the enormity of the crimes that are really being perpetrated against Palestinians?






The 3,903 Palestinians killed in Syria in the past seven years are of no interest to Western journalists or their editors. For them, the reports of the human rights organization monitoring the condition of Palestinians in Syria are rubbish fit for the wastebasket. Pictured: Palestinian men sit amid the rubble in Yarmouk refugee camp, Syria. (Image source: UNRWA)


----------



## Sixties Fan

Police say suspect, allegedly linked to Islamic State, planned to put chemical agent in water supply of small Sardinian town; arrest possibly linked to Lebanese poison plot

(full article online)

Palestinian in Italy reportedly arrested over water supply poison plot


----------



## Sixties Fan

Having coffee with terrorists and their families - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel permits Arab residents of Gaza—enemy territory—special permits so that they can receive medical care in Israeli hospitals or to carry out business transactions in Israel, and they use those privileges to assist terror cells.

(full article online)

Israel’s kindness is repaid with terror


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

The Arab Palestinians bite the hands that feed them.



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel permits Arab residents of Gaza—enemy territory—special permits so that they can receive medical care in Israeli hospitals or to carry out business transactions in Israel, and they use those privileges to assist terror cells.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel’s kindness is repaid with terror


*(COMMENT)*

This is just a view at the mirco level of the problem → Posted in # #6113.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas leader complains to UN about US and Israel attempts to condemn Hamas. Danon: It's like a serial killer asking police for assistance.


Hamas seeks assistance from the UN


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas "political" leader Ismail Haniyeh sent a letter to the UN against an American initiative to condemn the group for shooting rockets at Israeli civilians.

In the letter, Haniyeh claims that Hamas' terror is not only not prohibited, but a "right" under international law.

The letter says:

-------------

Article 51 says "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security." Shooting rockets at civilians is not "self defense" in any universe.

He also quotes several non-binding General Assembly resolutions that from the early 1970s that say that people under colonial subjugation have the right to resist "by all necessary means," which never includes terrorism, except to Palestinians and their fans. Of course, Israel is not a colonialist state to begin with, but the idea that international law allows Hamas-style terror attacks is absurd.

(full article online)

Hamas sends letter to UN pretending that terror is allowed under international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

lovely. Wake up and smell the unchanged seventh century political landscape that defines so much of Arab-Moslem'ism euphemistically called "Pal'istanians". It's smellin' pretty ripe.

"Gaza Imam Musa Abu Jleidan Calls the Jews Treacherous Cheaters, Claims Israeli National Anthem Says: "We Will Go Where Allah Wants When We See Our Enemies' Severed Heads""


During a sermon that was uploaded to his YouTube channel on November 23, 2018, Gaza imam Sheikh Musa Abu Jleidan, also known as "Abu 'Ubeida," said that the Jews are treacherous and conniving cheaters who are the pinnacle of terrorism. He criticized the Arab countries for normalizing relations with Israel and claimed that the Israeli national anthem, which is being played in Arab capitals, includes the following text: "May our enemies tremble with fear… May [their] skies be clouded with fear and terror when our arrows and spears pierce their chests. When we see their spilt blood and severed heads…  [we] will go to where Allah wants [us] to go."


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Yes, this is a bit hilarious.  I like the way Ambassador Danon thinks.



Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas leader complains to UN about US and Israel attempts to condemn Hamas. Danon: It's like a serial killer asking police for assistance.
> •  Hamas seeks assistance from the UN  •


*(COMMENT)*

❖  HAMAS is considered a terrorist organization by most of the European Union (EU): United Kingdom, Canada, United States, as well as:  European Union:: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden.​It is not like the world doesn't know the complexion of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS - Palestine).  For instance, there are many states that do not recognize the HAMAS - Palestine because it does not pose a direct threat to them.  This is how the Russians view HAMAS - Palestine.  It does not pose a direct security threat to them.  They are well aware that HAMAS - Palestine is an organization that pursues premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents; and terrifying events of intense coercion or acts and threats of violence to obtain some outcome.

HAMAS is conducting what terrifying events that it came in order to pressure the State of Israel to capitulate, in favor of the Arab Palestinian demands.  What ever you want to call it, in the course of achieving this objective, the Arab Palestinians make absolutely NO ATTEMPT to follow the Customary and IHL; no attempt at all.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

#OnThisDay in 1947, the @UN proposed a two-state solution:
 a Jewish state alongside a Palestinian state.





The Jews celebrated their forthcoming state.





The Arabs rejected the proposed Palestinian state, and declared a holy war. 
 Their reaction at the time
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





(vide video online)

Mark Regev on Twitter


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas "political" leader Ismail Haniyeh sent a letter to the UN against an American initiative to condemn the group for shooting rockets at Israeli civilians.
> 
> In the letter, Haniyeh claims that Hamas' terror is not only not prohibited, but a "right" under international law.
> 
> The letter says:
> 
> -------------
> 
> Article 51 says "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security." Shooting rockets at civilians is not "self defense" in any universe.
> 
> He also quotes several non-binding General Assembly resolutions that from the early 1970s that say that people under colonial subjugation have the right to resist "by all necessary means," which never includes terrorism, except to Palestinians and their fans. Of course, Israel is not a colonialist state to begin with, but the idea that international law allows Hamas-style terror attacks is absurd.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas sends letter to UN pretending that terror is allowed under international law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Great.  Just great.  So Hamas at the UN is using the same ridiculous arguments we see here every day.


----------



## Hollie

I find it beyond creepy that vacant young arab/moslem minds are continuously indoctrinated with the anti-American, anti-Israeli and anti-Western propaganda that is a part of the Friday clerical diatribes convincing these throwbacks that every pratfall and every ill that befalls the Arab/Moslem world is the fault of someone else. 


"Islamic Jihad Music Video Shows Veiled Women Shooting Guns and Training: We Are Martyrdom-Seekers Defending Al-Aqsa"

_The Islamic Jihad militant group in Gaza released a music video titled "The Honorable Women of Jihad." The video shows veiled women marching, doing military drills, and shooting firearms while wearing various forms of military garb, and it occasionally overlays with pictures of "martyred" women. The song lyrics describe the women as mothers of leaders, modern-day Khansaas (Khansaa was a 7th-century Islamic heroine,) and martyrdom-seekers who are defending Al-Aqsa and redeeming Palestine from the plundering occupiers. The video was uploaded to the Women's Action Department of the Islamic Jihad Movement's Facebook page on November 13, 2018._


----------



## Hollie

The title heading the Pal Media Watch article seems to be largely rhetorical.

The sort of unhinged hyperreligious ranting might otherwise be written off as a mental disorder, except these idiots are serious. This is the voice of countless Arabs-Moslems who feel robbed of the seventh century promise of supremacy over the infidel that was left as a legacy by their religion's inventor.





Is Fatah trying to spark a new round of terror? - PMW Bulletins

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The Fatah Movement has reposted part of a violence promoting speech by Mahmoud Abbas that was used in 2014 to launch a terror wave. 

Abbas gave the speech in October 2014 and then PA TV rebroadcast it 32 times. It coincided with a month of terror attacks in Jerusalem in which 11 Israelis were murdered in car rammings and stabbing attacks.





Abbas: "We must all carry out _Ribat_ [religious conflict] in the Al-Aqsa Mosque... We have to prevent them, in any way whatsoever, from entering the Sanctuary... They have no right to enter it. They have no right to defile it. We must prevent them. Let us stand before them with chests bared to protect our holy places."
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Nov. 28, 2018, July 15, 2017,
rebroadcast of Abbas' speech on official PA TV, Oct. 17, 2014]

Fatah reposted the video now with the text
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a bit hilarious.  I like the way Ambassador Danon thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader complains to UN about US and Israel attempts to condemn Hamas. Danon: It's like a serial killer asking police for assistance.
> •  Hamas seeks assistance from the UN  •
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ❖  HAMAS is considered a terrorist organization by most of the European Union (EU): United Kingdom, Canada, United States, as well as:  European Union:: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden.​It is not like the world doesn't know the complexion of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS - Palestine).  For instance, there are many states that do not recognize the HAMAS - Palestine because it does not pose a direct threat to them.  This is how the Russians view HAMAS - Palestine.  It does not pose a direct security threat to them.  They are well aware that HAMAS - Palestine is an organization that pursues premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents; and terrifying events of intense coercion or acts and threats of violence to obtain some outcome.
> 
> HAMAS is conducting what terrifying events that it came in order to pressure the State of Israel to capitulate, in favor of the Arab Palestinian demands.  What ever you want to call it, in the course of achieving this objective, the Arab Palestinians make absolutely NO ATTEMPT to follow the Customary and IHL; no attempt at all.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Palestine). For instance, there are many states that do not recognize the HAMAS - Palestine because it does not pose a direct threat to them.


So, what countries do Hamas directly threaten?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a bit hilarious.  I like the way Ambassador Danon thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader complains to UN about US and Israel attempts to condemn Hamas. Danon: It's like a serial killer asking police for assistance.
> •  Hamas seeks assistance from the UN  •
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ❖  HAMAS is considered a terrorist organization by most of the European Union (EU): United Kingdom, Canada, United States, as well as:  European Union:: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden.​It is not like the world doesn't know the complexion of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS - Palestine).  For instance, there are many states that do not recognize the HAMAS - Palestine because it does not pose a direct threat to them.  This is how the Russians view HAMAS - Palestine.  It does not pose a direct security threat to them.  They are well aware that HAMAS - Palestine is an organization that pursues premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents; and terrifying events of intense coercion or acts and threats of violence to obtain some outcome.
> 
> HAMAS is conducting what terrifying events that it came in order to pressure the State of Israel to capitulate, in favor of the Arab Palestinian demands.  What ever you want to call it, in the course of achieving this objective, the Arab Palestinians make absolutely NO ATTEMPT to follow the Customary and IHL; no attempt at all.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine). For instance, there are many states that do not recognize the HAMAS - Palestine because it does not pose a direct threat to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what countries do Hamas directly threaten?
Click to expand...


Indeed, several Gulf Arab states.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

*•  Senior PLO official: Killing Israelis is not “terror”; it’s not “criminal”- it’s “legitimate”  •*

Last year, Qatar’s regional status suffered a blow when 12 Arab/Islamic states chose to distance themselves and terminate diplomatic relations with Qatar because of its support Iranian operations and terrorism within the Regional Area.  This includes HAMAS operations receiving funding for its operations against Israel.


			
				The Global Muslim Brotherhood Daily Watch (GMBDW) said:
			
		

> Hamas-affiliated media has published an article by a senior Hamas official arguing that Hamas has the right to attack Israeli embassies and interests as well as senior Israeli officials anywhere in the world. According to a MERI translation, the article also argued that “the resistance” is also entitled to harm the interests of Israel’s allies including the US.



It has been less than a month ago, Qatar transferred ≈ $15 million to HAMAS for the continuation of hostile operations.



P F Tinmore said:


> So, what countries do Hamas directly threaten?


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab League countries are holding a very watchful eye on these developments.  If HAMAS succeeds in its recent Terrorism & Political Violence (TPV) activities with Israel, the closer HAMAS comes to increasing political volatility that could damage the Israel's contributions both regionally and internationally.

HAMAS is somewhat contained for the moment.  But should the Hostile Arab Palestinians, that makeup the Palestinian Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and other Asymmetric Fighter organizations, the Arab League will have a substantial operator on both side of it; east and a new west, that the Iranians have some control and influence over. 

Most Respectfully,
R


​


----------



## Hollie

Brace yourselves. We’re treated to another long, pompous diatribe from the Fatah franchise of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_.

We’re granted an audience to the acrid, indignant muttering of an Islamic fascist who is outraged that his Muhammud-given right to kill Jews is called into question.

These Dark Age loons will insist (falsely) that they have a UN endorsement to commit acts of war and acts of Islamic terrorism. They will also insist that their acts of war and acts of Islamic terrorism Are a function of doctrinal elements of their politico-religious ideology. 
*





Fatah leader: "The rifle will never fall"
"The UN allows the Palestinian people* 
*to use the armed struggle"

Fatah leader: "The rifle will never fall" - PMW Bulletins*



by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

"The rifle will never fall," declared Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki on PA TV, using the anniversary of former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's death to reiterate that Palestinians have a UN-protected "right to use the armed struggle."

For years, Palestinian Authority leaders and officials have defended and promoted Palestinian violence by quoting UN resolution 3236, which "recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means." The PA claims "all means" includes attacking and killing Israeli civilians, which is why PA leaders claim that Palestinian terrorists are legitimate "freedom fighters" and terrorist prisoners are "prisoners of war." 

However, the PA has chosen to ignore the continuation of the UN resolution which states that the use of "all means" should be "in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations..." The UN Charter prohibits targeting civilians, even in war. Chapter 1, Article 1, opens by saying that "international disputes" should be resolved "by peaceful means."

But regard for Israeli civilian lives is never a concern for PA and Fatah leaders when justifying and rewarding use of violence and terror against Israel to the Palestinian population.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestinian" refugee dispels myths about the history of Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Saeb Erekat Flounders In Face of Difficult Questioning


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> WATCH: Saeb Erekat Flounders In Face of Difficult Questioning


 Abbas needs to be grilled too.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The message that Iran is sending to Palestinian families is: "If you want money and a good life, send your children to die on the border with Israel." This is a message that is likely to reverberate far and wide among Arabs, well beyond the Palestinians.


The declared goal of the Iranian-sponsored World Forum for Proximity of Islamic Schools of Thought is to forge unity between Muslims. For the Iranians and their proxies, Islamic unity is a prerequisite to advancing the ultimate goal of removing the "cancerous tumor" (Israel) from the face of the earth. Iran has been doing its utmost to achieve this goal.


Were it not for Iranian support, the Lebanese Shiite terrorist organization, Hezbollah, would not be aiming tens of thousands of rockets and missiles at Israel. Were it not for Iranian military and financial backing, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups would not have been able to fire more than 500 projectiles at Israel in 24 hours, as they did last month.


To set the record straight: Iran cares nothing for the Palestinians; Iran seeks to obliterate Israel, and if it could, obliterate the US, as its expansion into South America suggests.


It seems that some mullahs in Iran cannot wait for Khamenei's prediction of Israel's destruction in 2040. The Iranian money promised to the families is meant to encourage other all Arabs and Muslims to send their children to launch rocket attacks on Israel and throw stones and firebombs at Israeli soldiers.

(full article online)

Why Iran Funds Palestinian Terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

Every year, a giant Chanukah menorah is erected in the plaza of the Kotel, the Western Wall.





The official Palestinian Authority news agency, Wafa, describes it as "the introduction of the Jewish 'candelabra' into the heart of the blessed mosque."

(full article online)

The supposed holiness of the Kotel to Muslims is a new phenomenon from the 19th century. The legend of Mohammed's flying steed does not say where he supposedly tethered the magical animal; early Muslim sourcesassociated it with the southern wall of the Mount, and then later with the southwest corner, and only in the 19th century with the area of the Western Wall.

As with everything else in Israel, Muslims consider something holy only in relation with how sacred the Jews consider it.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority says Chanukah menorah at Kotel erected "in the heart of Al Aqsa Mosque" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In 2018, France donated 16 million euros to the PA general budget

The PA's general budget funds its 'Pay for Slay' program paying salaries to terrorists

French tax payer money is part of this budget, which is used to reward Palestinian terrorists

(full article online)

France enables PA to reward terrorism - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Something tells me a "Hamas court" has vastly different standards of evidence and procedure vs. those in the First World.

Death by hanging _*or*_ firing squad? Why not both? 
*

Hamas court says six Gazans sentenced to death for collaboration with Israel*

Hamas court says six Gazans sentenced to death for collaboration with Israel

A Hamas military court in the Gaza Strip on Monday handed out thirteen sentences to Palestinians convicted of ‘collaborating’ with Israel, six of whom were sentenced to death by hanging or firing squad.

The sentences were a “clear message to the collaborators of the occupation that this (a death sentence or years of hard labor) is their inevitable fate, the Hamas interior ministry said.

Hamas Interior Minister Iyad al-Bazm told a press conference that Hamas security services were successful in thwarting a planned Israeli operation in Gaza. It is unclear if he is referring to the botched special forces operation that took place November 11 that left one elite Israeli commander and seven Palestinians dead.

.“We are still working on the security-related event east of Khan Younis (the Nov 11 Israeli special forces op) and a number of people have been arrested and are being investigated,” he said.

Six of the thirteen convicted for collaborating with Israel were sentenced to death, either by firing squad or by hanging, according to details published by Palestinian _Ma’an news agency_.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Representative In Lebanon Ali Baraka: Our Missiles In Gaza 'Can Reach Every Spot In Palestine' As Can 'The Missiles Of The Resistance In Lebanon'; Iran's Financial Support 'Is The Basis' For The 'Steadfastness Of The Resistance In Gaza'


----------



## Hollie

Well, I'm more than just a little creeped out. I suppose there is nothing more vile about the latest Death Cult musings than the last episode of islamic mental disorders but this one seems to be an especially dark pathology.


*

Official PA TV:*

*"The blood of the Martyrs flows in my veins...*
*I harvest the souls in the fields [of battle]...*
*The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me"

"The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me" - poem on official PA TV - PMW Bulletins*

*Fatah: "Allah, do not prevent us from Martyrdom-death in [Al-Aqsa's plazas"*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The ideal of dying as a "Martyr" continues to be promoted regularly by the Palestinian Authority and Abbas' Fatah party. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that "Martyrs" have cult-like status in the PA.

Following a recent terror attack in which the terrorist stabbed and wounded 4 Israeli policemen, a host on official PA TV read a poem in the terrorist's honor. The poem glorifies Martyrdom-death in battle and states that the 72 "Dark-Eyed" Virgins in Paradise who the Martyr marries according to Islamic tradition, are "yearning" for the Palestinian Martyr: 

















*Official PA TV host:* "About the Jerusalem Martyr Abd Al-Rahman Abu Jamal (terrorist, wounded 4 -Ed.) we say:

I am the Palestinian lion cub
I was planted in my land, like the olive and fig tree
My roots reach Canaan
*The blood of the Martyrs flows in my veins,*
I am like a lion in the fields [of battle]
If the drums of war call
*I harvest the souls in the fields*
*I guard the Al-Aqsa [Mosque] and the [Dome of the] Rock*
My eyes will not close, and my head will not bow
I am the Palestinian lion cub
The armies of treachery fear me
*The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me* 
I have not sold my homelands, and have not given up my assault rifle
Today I carry my shrouds, and in my heart my faith strengthens
Because victory and liberation are coming at the hands of the lion cubs
 [Official PA TV, _Good Morning Jerusalem_, Nov. 23, 2018


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Hollie, et al,


I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinans know what it is to be happy or how to be happy.



Hollie said:


> Well, I'm more than just a little creeped out. I suppose there is nothing more vile about the latest Death Cult musings than the last episode of islamic mental disorders but this one seems to be an especially dark pathology.


*(COMMENT)*

I think that to be a "martyr" the Arab Palestinian must first have a very low level of self-esteem, a deep feeling of hopelessness, and a need to be noticed → unable to reach an achievement in life → move to unnecessarily sacrificing themselves → for a cause that really does not warrant the loss → but to be noticed for the ritual process of the act.  

The Arab Palestinians that do this, feel that they have nothing more to offer → anyone.

The poet, on the other hand, • "The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me" • needs to observe and have empathy for the would-be martyr.  The poet needs to have, at some point, been close and in observable range → with the would-be martyr, to feel the sorrow, the anguish and the agony that drives them forth to the final moment.  

Yes - I agree with Hollie, it is hard to estimate the "creepiness factor;" who's more creepy; the poet on the subject or the martyr that passes-on the last moments in an otherwise worthless life.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Now I find this interesting.  This is the advocation of a Plan Genocide _(intent to destroy, in whole or in part)_.  Yes, subtle but there. *Article 6c* • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction; • *Article 6d* • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group. •



Sixties Fan said:


> The message that Iran is sending to Palestinian families is: "If you want money and a good life, send your children to die on the border with Israel." This is a message that is likely to reverberate far and wide among Arabs, well beyond the Palestinians.




*(COMMENT)*

The keys here are:

✦  IF you want money  
✦  IF you want a good life
...................................................................................
✦  THEN send your children to die
✦  THEN send your children to the border with Israel​
This is lethal servitude and deadly bondage of child → sold for the money to buy a good life.  _(Very Islamic!)_

It destroys the next generation of Arab Palestinians.  After all, in the eyes of the Iranians _(Shia 90-95%)_ the Arab Palestinians are merely _(predominantly)_ Sunni.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The ideal of dying as a "Martyr" continues to be promoted regularly by the Palestinian Authority and Abbas' Fatah party. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that "Martyrs" have cult-like status in the PA.

Following a recent terror attack in which the terrorist stabbed and wounded 4 Israeli policemen, a host on official PA TV read a poem in the terrorist's honor. The poem glorifies Martyrdom-death in battle and states that the 72 "Dark-Eyed" Virgins in Paradise who the Martyr marries according to Islamic tradition, are "yearning" for the Palestinian Martyr: 
















*Official PA TV host:* "About the Jerusalem Martyr Abd Al-Rahman Abu Jamal (terrorist, wounded 4 -Ed.) we say:

I am the Palestinian lion cub
I was planted in my land, like the olive and fig tree
My roots reach Canaan
*The blood of the Martyrs flows in my veins,*
I am like a lion in the fields [of battle]
If the drums of war call
*I harvest the souls in the fields*
*I guard the Al-Aqsa [Mosque] and the [Dome of the] Rock*
My eyes will not close, and my head will not bow
I am the Palestinian lion cub
The armies of treachery fear me
*The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me* 
I have not sold my homelands, and have not given up my assault rifle
Today I carry my shrouds, and in my heart my faith strengthens
Because victory and liberation are coming at the hands of the lion cubs
 [Official PA TV, _Good Morning Jerusalem_, Nov. 23, 2018

(full article online)

"The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me" - poem on official PA TV - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Truer words were never spoken ]

*Senior Fatah official: 'If Hamas... is considered a terrorist movement,* *this means that all groups 
of the Palestinian people are involved in terrorism"


*
[ And then.....the usual denial  ]

*Fatah official denies Palestinian terror:
Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not terror organizations
"Fatah will not agree to any Palestinian being defined as a terrorist"*

Fatah: If Hamas is a terrorist organization, so are we - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Well, Shirley the "bitches" deserve it.

"Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Advisor to PA President: Men May Only Beat Their Wives When They Are Disobedient"

_Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who is an advisor to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said that the only situation in which a man is ever permitted to beat his wife is when she is "being disobedient, crossing the line, [and] violating the sanctity of matrimony." He said that even under these circumstances, the man may not hit his wife in the face or in a fashion that causes harm, injury, or excessive pain. He said that men must remember that their wives are partners rather than maids or slave girls. Al-Habbash was interviewed on Palestine TV (Palestinian Authority) on December 1, 2018._


----------



## Sixties Fan

As a result of immense international pressure threatening to cut off a vast amount of aid to the Palestinian Authority, it was Abbas who deposed the democratically elected Hamas terrorist organization.

(full article online)

The joke of Palestinian ‘democracy’


----------



## Hollie

It's really an interesting dynamic to see a portion of the Sunni and Shia tribes declaring a Hudna in their 1400 year long internecine war. While these angry throwbacks will find common ground in their shared Jew hatreds, make no mistake; the Sunni and Shia despise each other. 

Hamas is going to further alienate themselves from the Sunni/Salafi component of the Islamist Middle East being viewed as subordinate to the Iranian Mullocrats.

"Hamas Rep. in Lebanon Ali Baraka: Our Missiles Can Strike Anywhere in Israel; Iranian Support Is the Basis of Our Steadfastness"

_During a November 23 interview on Al-Nujaba TV (Iraq), Hamas's representative in Lebanon Ali Baraka said that Hamas has missiles that can strike anywhere in Israel, and that it is working to increase the missiles' range, accuracy, and destructive power. He said that Syria has not supported Hamas since 2011 and that he hopes that Iraq will support Hamas in the future. Baraka added that Hizbullah has been providing Hamas with logistical support, political aid, and expertise. He also explained that Iran's financial support is the "basis for the steadfastness of the resistance in Gaza," and that Iran was the only country that helped Hamas recover from the war in 2014. He also said that Hizbullah's willingness to fight Israel in the Galilee is an indication that it considers the liberation of Palestine to be a central cause._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> As a result of immense international pressure threatening to cut off a vast amount of aid to the Palestinian Authority, it was Abbas who deposed the democratically elected Hamas terrorist organization.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The joke of Palestinian ‘democracy’


When examining Erekat’s claim about the Hamas “coup d’état” in the Gaza Strip, Erekat again “forgot” that Hamas won 74 seats of the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council in the last P.A. general elections held 13 years ago. Hamas therefore formed the legitimate P.A. government. As a result of immense international pressure threatening to cut off a vast amount of aid to the P.A., it was Abbas who deposed the democratically elected Hamas terrorist organization.

Accordingly, when Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip from Abbas’s so-called “technocrat government” in the summer of 2007, Hamas was simply reasserting the mandate that it had been granted by the Palestinian population in democratic elections—control which had temporarily been usurped by Abbas.

When the party that wins the outright majority of the democratic election assumes control, it is not called a “coup d’état,” it’s called “true democracy,”​
Indeed, I have been posting this for years only to have my posts rated funny, or conspiracy theory by Israeli propagandists.

The so called "PA government" in the West Bank is an illegal coup government. The US is violating its own law when recognizing this government as it is not allowed to recognize a coup government. The US does, however, violate its own law regularly. Haiti, Venezuela, and Egypt, for examples.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a result of immense international pressure threatening to cut off a vast amount of aid to the Palestinian Authority, it was Abbas who deposed the democratically elected Hamas terrorist organization.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The joke of Palestinian ‘democracy’
> 
> 
> 
> When examining Erekat’s claim about the Hamas “coup d’état” in the Gaza Strip, Erekat again “forgot” that Hamas won 74 seats of the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council in the last P.A. general elections held 13 years ago. Hamas therefore formed the legitimate P.A. government. As a result of immense international pressure threatening to cut off a vast amount of aid to the P.A., it was Abbas who deposed the democratically elected Hamas terrorist organization.
> 
> Accordingly, when Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip from Abbas’s so-called “technocrat government” in the summer of 2007, Hamas was simply reasserting the mandate that it had been granted by the Palestinian population in democratic elections—control which had temporarily been usurped by Abbas.
> 
> When the party that wins the outright majority of the democratic election assumes control, it is not called a “coup d’état,” it’s called “true democracy,”​
> Indeed, I have been posting this for years only to have my posts rated funny, or conspiracy theory by Israeli propagandists.
> 
> The so called "PA government" in the West Bank is an illegal coup government. The US is violating its own law when recognizing this government as it is not allowed to recognize a coup government. The US does, however, violate its own law regularly. Haiti, Venezuela, and Egypt, for examples.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the usual conspiracy theories.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab wanted for selling land to Jews found dead


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anchor Dana Abu Shamsiya also says assailant who died after attacking officers ‘harvests souls in the battlefield’

(full article online)

PA TV host: Man who stabbed 4 Israeli policemen ‘desired by virgins of Paradise’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Exclusive: My year in the Palestinian Authority territories


----------



## Hollie

Another of the many scams that defines the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians”.





The official Fatah Facebook page has posted the following photo of PA President Mahmoud Abbas on his way to Rome.

I wonder what the Quran says about having a $50 million private jet while many of your people are supposedly starving.

Photo of the Day: The Plane Truth Edition


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Another of the many scams that defines the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The official Fatah Facebook page has posted the following photo of PA President Mahmoud Abbas on his way to Rome.
> 
> I wonder what the Quran says about having a $50 million private jet while many of your people are supposedly starving.
> 
> Photo of the Day: The Plane Truth Edition


That is what foreign supported oligarchs do.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The detailed Palestinian Authority budget for 2018 that was published recently has new details about the allocations to arrested terrorists and the families of those who died or were wounded in the context of the “struggle against Zionism:”

The total PA budget is $5 billion. The amount that supports prisoners is $155 million, out of which $147 million are spent on transfers to the prisoners. These include salaries to 5,000 prisoners, paying Israeli fines for 1,200 prisoners, grants to 1,500 prisoners upon their discharge, grants for 1,200 unemployed released prisoners, delayed payments to 1,000 prisoners, salaries for 5,500 released prisoners, unspecified amounts to released prisoners who spent more than 10 years in jail, canteen expenditures for 6,000 prisoners, and clothing allocations for 5,000 prisoners.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Payments to Terrorists in 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

What kind of education is Germany funding in Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Pallywood of the day*




This piece of Palestinian street theater is being shared on social mediaas if it is really a video of IDF soldiers running in fear of a flag.

IDF soldiers, of course, don't look like this (look at their footwear, for example)

(full article online)

Pallywood of the day ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The physical manifestation of the socio-political ideology of Islamism. 

The leadership (such as it is) of the competing Sunni/Salafi vs. Shiite enabled Islamic terrorist enclaves accumulate incredible wealth. 

The slouches at the bottom of the pyramid scheme, on the other hand...


----------



## Hollie

In keeping with the tradition of praising mass murder / suicide as the highest of Arab-Moslem aspirations, the Islamic terrorists in the Fatah franchise are literally gushing over their latest endorsement.

The korans tend to be filled with violence and calls to wars. It’s never a surprise when a Mullah, Sheikh or Islamic pray leader reads aloud the verses in their korans that applaud rape, murder, and pillage. It’s just a surprise that Westerners don't want to believe what is actually written in the Korans.


Fatah "sends love" to Martyr bomb maker
- "our heroine," one of those "who guide our path"

Fatah "sends love" to Martyr bomb maker - PMW Bulletins

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
Meet one of the female role models of the Palestinian Authority:




*Terrorist and role model Shadia Abu Ghazaleh*

Shadia Abu Ghazaleh was active in the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror organization, building bombs and participating in terror attacks against Israel. While she was preparing a bomb for an attack in Tel Aviv in 1968, it accidentally detonated and killed her.

Abbas' Fatah Movement sent Abu Ghazaleh the movement's "*love*" and called her a "*heroine*." Marking the 50th anniversary of her death, Fatah stated that she is *among those who* "*guide our path*," and honored her for being an "*uncompromising and merciful young woman, who sacrificed herself for her great family*":

*Fatah's posted text:* "*Shadia took part in a bombing operation of an Israeli bus, and also took part in and even led a number of military operations. However, fate desired that when our heroine was at her home preparing a bomb to detonate on the occupation in Tal Al-Rabia *(i.e., Tel Aviv, see note below) it blew up in her hands and she died as a Martyr (_Shahida_)...
*Today we send all of our love to Shadia* - who would repeat: 'If I fall, take my place, my comrade in the struggle' ... *She and those like her guide our path*... who sacrificed herself for her great family at the expense of the childhood dreams that were within her, in order to tell us: 'Continue.'"
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Nov. 29, 2018]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Some more Jeeeeeeeehhhaaaaadddd ]

Pregnant woman seriously wounded in terror attack in Binyamin


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  The Joke which is the P. A. ]

Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian-American in PA custody says she was tortured


----------



## Hollie

The Roadmap to Pal’istanian statehood.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

You know, this is kind-of-interesting.



Sixties Fan said:


> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade


*(COMMENT)*

Normally you don't see a head of state doing something like this until just before a change government leadership, or government type _(maybe even elections)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade


The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
Click to expand...

You go and tell Abbas that


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You go and tell Abbas that
Click to expand...

Abbas' term in office expired in January of 2009.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You go and tell Abbas that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas' term in office expired in January of 2009.
Click to expand...


When have islamic dictators ever been concerned with expiration dates for their dictatorships?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You go and tell Abbas that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas' term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have islamic dictators ever been concerned with expiration dates for their dictatorships?
Click to expand...

Particularly when the US gives them money and weapons to stay in power.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You go and tell Abbas that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas' term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have islamic dictators ever been concerned with expiration dates for their dictatorships?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Particularly when the US gives them money and weapons to stay in power.
Click to expand...


Can You prove that  without US money and weapons the Arab world ever valued democracy?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Interesting!



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You go and tell Abbas that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas' term in office expired in January of 2009.
Click to expand...

*(OBSERVATION)*

Mahmoud Abbas, President of the State of Palestine and the Palestinian National Authority, is --- no matter what the "Basic Law (current)" might say, is still the President.   

The Palestinian Parliament is 100% dysfunctional.  Why should the President need to dissolve something that has already been abandon by the members and by the people? 

*(QUESTION)*

Why should the President need to dissolve something that has already been abandon by the members and by the people?

Who stands to gain from the disestablishment of the Parliment?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  The Joke which is the P. A. ]
> 
> Abbas says he’ll soon dissolve PA parliament, which hasn’t met in a decade
> 
> 
> 
> The parliament is an independent body. The president has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You go and tell Abbas that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas' term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas, President of the State of Palestine and the Palestinian National Authority, is --- no matter what the "Basic Law (current)" might say, is still the President.
> 
> The Palestinian Parliament is 100% dysfunctional.  Why should the President need to dissolve something that has already been abandon by the members and by the people?
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Why should the President need to dissolve something that has already been abandon by the members and by the people?
> 
> Who stands to gain from the disestablishment of the Parliment?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This is just a little of the external interference of the Palestinian's democracy.

In June 2006 an Israeli military official said a total of 64 Hamas officials were arrested in the early morning round-up. Of those, Palestinian officials said seven were ministers in Hamas' 23-member Cabinet and 20 others were MPs in the 72-seat parliament." "We have no government, we have nothing. They have all been taken," said Saeb Erekat, an ally of the moderate Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas.[68]

In June 2007 the Washington Post reported: "Hamas … leaders have accused Fatah's security services of working on behalf of Israeli and American interests because of a $40 million U.S. aid package to strengthen Abbas's forces. … The Israeli government has openly supported Fatah forces against Hamas, whose tightening control of Gaza alarmed Israeli defense officials.[69]

A wikileaks cable dated June 13, 2007, Shin Bet security chief Yuval Diskin told U.S. Ambassador to Israel Richard Jones that: "Fatah had thus turned to Israel for help in attack Hamas", which he termed a new and unprecedented development in Jerusalem's relations with the Palestinian Authority.

2006 Palestinian legislative election - Wikipedia​


----------



## P F Tinmore

And this wasn't just in 2006. Israel continues to disrespect Palestine's government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> And this wasn't just in 2006. Israel continues to disrespect Palestine's government.



Press TV

What a hoot.

All seriousness aside, which islamic terrorist dictator was disrespected?


----------



## toastman

What is this ‘Palestine’ Tinmore is talking about?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Shooting at unarmed civilians = heroic ]

A Hamas spokesman praised the terrorist attack adjacent to the Ofra settlement in the central West Bank on Sunday in which a pregnant 21-year-old Israeli woman and six others were wounded, describing it as “heroic.”

Shots were fired from a passing car at a crowd of people who were waiting at a bus stop near the settlement. The pregnant woman was in a critical condition, and was “fighting for her life” in the hospital late Sunday. Doctors delivered her baby, which was in a stable condition.

(full article online)

Hamas praises ‘heroic’ West Bank shooting attack


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) violence conduct such operations with a total disregard and depraved indifference to human life for personal gain and individual merit _(martyrdom)_ on themselves and reimbursement _(bounty)_ in the event of their death.   The HoAP seek recognition for the havoc they create and the intentional targeting and murder of the unarmed or defenseless; for which there is no heroism.



Sixties Fan said:


> [ Shooting at unarmed civilians = heroic ]
> 
> A Hamas spokesman praised the terrorist attack adjacent to the Ofra settlement in the central West Bank on Sunday in which a pregnant 21-year-old Israeli woman and six others were wounded, describing it as “heroic.”
> 
> Shots were fired from a passing car at a crowd of people who were waiting at a bus stop near the settlement. The pregnant woman was in a critical condition and was “fighting for her life” in the hospital late Sunday. Doctors delivered her baby, which was in a stable condition.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas praises ‘heroic’ West Bank shooting attack


*(COMMENT)*

BUT, there will never be a time when the civilized people that exhibit courage and valor in the case of overwhelming odds, will recognize the Arab Palestinians that engages the defenseless.  The civilized world long since passed the tactics of the barbarian Arab Palestinians and the cowardly acts they commit.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Some more Jeeeeeeeehhhaaaaadddd ]
> 
> Pregnant woman seriously wounded in terror attack in Binyamin



It seems the IDF is going to require accountability.

Israeli troops raid office of Palestinian news agency - Wafa

RAMALLAH, West Bank, Dec 10 (Reuters) - Israeli soldiers raided the offices of Palestinian news agency Wafa on Monday in the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah, it said.

An Israeli military spokeswoman declined to comment on the report. It was unclear whether the raid was connected with an army search in Ramallah after a gunman believed to be Palestinian opened fire on Israelis outside a nearby Jewish settlement on Sunday.

"They (the soldiers) raided the server room in the bureau and went through the camera recordings in the agency," Wafa said on its website. "They withdrew from the agency's office after they took copies of the security camera footage."


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Shooting at unarmed civilians = heroic ]
> 
> A Hamas spokesman praised the terrorist attack adjacent to the Ofra settlement in the central West Bank on Sunday in which a pregnant 21-year-old Israeli woman and six others were wounded, describing it as “heroic.”
> 
> Shots were fired from a passing car at a crowd of people who were waiting at a bus stop near the settlement. The pregnant woman was in a critical condition, and was “fighting for her life” in the hospital late Sunday. Doctors delivered her baby, which was in a stable condition.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas praises ‘heroic’ West Bank shooting attack



There will be no response; there never is.  When did any Arab Govt show respect for the Israeli Govt?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and the other Palestinian terrorist groups have interpreted the failure of the US-sponsored resolution as an internationally sanctioned license to continue killing Jews.


What Hamas is telling the UN and the rest of the world is: "Now that you have refused to brand us terrorists, we have the right to launch all forms of terrorist attacks and kill as many Jews as possible." Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders are, in fact, threatening not only to continue, but also to step up, their terrorist attacks on Israel.


When Hamas and its supporters celebrate, the few Palestinians who are described as moderates and pragmatists and who are opposed to violence and terrorism, will have to hide.


Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah have boasted that what happened at the UN was a "slap in the face of the US and Israel." In fact, what happened at the UN is a severe blow to the "moderates" among the Palestinians and to any chances of reaching a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Now that the UN has legitimized Palestinian terrorism, no Palestinian leader will be able to return to the negotiating table with Israel. Thus, with this move, the UN has expertly torpedoed even the remotest possibility of peace talks.


(full article online)

UN Approves Terror, Torpedoes Peace


----------



## Hollie

It really is remarkable how fear, self-loathng and retrogression has gripped Arabs-Moslems.



"Poem Recited by Palestinian Girl at Gaza Conference: The Wild Apes and Miserable Pigs (Jews) Are Destined for Humiliation, Jerusalem Spits Out Their Filth"

_During a conference held in Gaza on the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People, a Palestinian girl recited a poem that referred to the Jews as wild apes, miserable pigs, and evil creatures destined for humiliation. She said that they are like herds of stupid cattle, and that Jerusalem "spits out [their] filth" because it is a pure virgin. She also said: "I do not fear the rifle… As long as I have my arm and my stones… I will not sell out the Palestinian cause." The conference was held on November 29, 2018 and aired on Al-Jazeera TV (Qatar). November 29 was declared by the United Nations General Assembly as the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People._


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Culture Of Death Versus A Culture Of Life — In 7 Tweets


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians: Ofra attack didn't take place in area under our control


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Who Worked With Israel to Prevent Terror Attacks Describes PA Torture


----------



## Sixties Fan

But if you look at their annual report you can see that Palestinians only take a small percentage of the microfinance loans that UNRWA offers. They gave out loans to 38,595 people in 2017, but only  13,756 went to Palestinians.

In Syria, practically none of the loans go to Palestinian "refugees." Out of 11,094 loans total in Syria, a mere 288 went to Palestinians.

Who gets the rest?

According to an investigative report in the Arabic Daraj site, some of the loans have been made to elements of the Syrian intelligence services and militias active in Syria.

The wife of the Syrian president, Asma al-Assad, seems to have worked with UNRWA on the loan program. Here's a photo of her with the then-head of UNRWA Karen Abu-Zaid.






The article has interviews with former UNRWA employees who testify that the agency's loans were taken over by Syrian officials, and loans were made to those that the regime wanted to get the loans.

The investigation uncovered hundreds of applications and documentation from UNRWA.

(full article online)

.@UNRWA loans money to Syrian regime thugs, Hamas and Islamic Jihad ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The film, produced by Netflix, is supposedly pro-Palestinian. Nearly all the people involved in production are Jordanian with a smattering of Americans.

The newest problem just came up as there was to be a scene where a Palestinian terrorist flees to a mosque after his attack. It was to be filmed at a mosque in Amman, and the  Waqf approved the filming, but residents objected - because, they claimed, some Jews were part of the production (possibly actors) and would pollute the holy site with their presence.


(full article online)

Jordanian Waqf stops filming in mosque because residents complained that Jews would be there ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

When a “Dean” at the Islamic university of Gaza (I know, let’s enjoy the humor), rattles on about Jews, you just know what to expect. 

"Gaza University Professor Subhi Al-Yazji: We Should Hit a Synagogue Every Time Israel Hits a Mosque" 

Dr. Subhi Al-Yazji, who is the Dean of Quranic Studies at the Islamic University of Gaza, said that while the Palestinians in Gaza are capable of carrying out military attacks in Tel Aviv, simply firing a missile can achieve the same result and doesn't require sending people to be "martyred." He added that the Gazans should adopt an "eye-for-an-eye policy" and that killing an Israeli for every Palestinian killed is not enough. Rather, he suggested that they should bomb a synagogue or school every time Israel bombs a mosque or school. Dr. Al-Yazji was interviewed on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) on November 18, 2018. To see more statements by Dr. Al-Yazji, see MEMRI-TV clips 4318 and 6290.


Lovely.

The good “Dr.” Al-Yazji can be reached for further comment on tuesday and Thursday afternoons after his shift driving the ice cream truck.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO's Negotiation Affairs Department blocks me on Twitter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, Abbas has proven again that he supports terror by his Fatah group issuing congratulations to another terror group, the PFLP, on its anniversary, and stressing how both groups have been an important part of the PLO. This was reported in PA-run media.

For its part, the PFLP issued a nine-point position paper for the occasion, one of which states:

  The resistance option proved its effectiveness, as demonstrated by its forces, which supported it and defended it and exercised it in all its forms, especially the armed struggle, its ability to use it successfully in more than one arena despite all the attempts of the hostile forces to strike its foundations and dispersing its forces and popular support.The PFLP also issued a statement of praise for the terror attack in Ofra this week, calling it a "bold heroic operation."

Both Fatah and the PFLP feature guns in the current logos on their media.

(full article online)

Abbas' terror group praises the PFLP terror group. (But he's a "man of peace.") ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Well, this probably a positive sign!



Sixties Fan said:


> The PLO's Negotiation Affairs Department blocks me on Twitter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

They probably fear your POV or political logic...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Fatah recommits to "the armed struggle": *

*"We won't drop the rifle"*

*"Fatah is the torch of the armed struggle"*






(full article online)

Fatah recommits to "the armed struggle": "We won't drop the rifle" - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The Gaza propaganda highway*

In 2016, Journalist Mohammed Othman wrote a few ‘probing articles‘ and was arrested by Hamas.  He had his laptops and mobile phones seized, and claims he was beaten by Hamas security forces. In 2015, twenty-one people were arrested in Gaza over articles they had written (see more examples). The notion that Hamas do not have a stranglehold over news transmitted to the west is absurd. Most international news outlets rely on local correspondents, in Gaza that means ‘reporters’ and ‘photographers’ with homes and families in Gaza, all vulnerable to Hamas pressure, intimidation and violence.

Yet the mainstream media is still only one outlet Hamas can use to deliver its messaging. Social media is another. This isn’t a difficult logical exercise. If Hamas won’t permit criticism in print, then the popular social media accounts pushing news from Gaza are almost certainly within their remit. Why would they ignore the global audience social media activists give them? Whilst mainstream media may seek to partially clarify the reports they are given, on social media there is no such filter.

Propaganda can be driven directly from Hamas HQ to anti-Israel Facebook groups in a matter of minutes. If you then place this ability next to the issue of anti-Israel activists ignoring the output of mainstream media, it means that anti-Israel activism is receiving and distributing raw Hamas propaganda almost by default.

(full article online)

Hamas lies and propaganda: From Gaza to the world in less than a minute


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: ‘Evil Jews’ are ‘Wild Apes, Miserable Pigs Destined for Humiliation,’ Chants Palestinian Girl


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *Fatah recommits to "the armed struggle": *
> 
> *"We won't drop the rifle"*
> 
> *"Fatah is the torch of the armed struggle"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Fatah recommits to "the armed struggle": "We won't drop the rifle" - PMW Bulletins


Neither will Israel.

What is your point?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Who are the Palestinians?  Muslims.  Terrorists.  Fed by a daily dose of hatred and supremacy over the other ]

2 Israelis killed, 2 seriously wounded in West Bank terror shooting

Two border guards wounded in Old City stabbing attack

Hamas spokesman praises ‘heroic’ West Bank terror attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and its allies are openly working and encouraging the eruption of a new anti-Israel uprising in the West Bank, and they have been emboldened by the recent failure of the UN General Assembly to adopt a US-sponsored resolution condemning Hamas and other Palestinian groups for firing rockets at Israel and inciting violence.


The Hamas-engineered attacks are not only a threat to Israeli civilians and soldiers; they also undermine the Western-funded Palestinian Authority (PA) of Mahmoud Abbas. Each "successful" attack carried out by Hamas earns it more popularity in the West Bank, at the cost of Abbas and his regime.


Now that Hamas is getting what it wants in the Gaza Strip -- millions of dollars and no war with Israel -- it is seeking to shift the attention to the West Bank, all with the help of its friends in Tehran. This has a twofold goal: to undermine or overthrow the Palestinian Authority, inflict heavy casualties on Israel, and thwart any peace plan brought forward by the US administration.

(full article online)

The Hamas Plan to Take the West Bank


----------



## Hollie

Oh my. Another occurrence of _gee-had denied*™.  *_This action on the part of facebook is likely racist, probably islamophobic and definitely not in keeping with the _Peaceful Inner Struggle_*™*
*
Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis

Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis
*
Palestinian activists and journalists on Monday launched a campaign to protest against Facebook after the social media giant removed dozens of pages in recent weeks, saying they incited and glorified terrorism.

“Facebook is waging war on the Palestinians,” the activists and journalists complained in a statement as they launched a Twitter hashtag entitled “#FBfightsPalestine” to protest the Facebook measures.

During 2017, Facebook took action against 200 Palestinian accounts, the statement said.  The measures also included the removal of posts and photos deemed inflammatory and supportive of terrorism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah's Information Office released a statement threatening to continue terror attacks as long as Israel "exercises its policy of field executions against our people and destroys in one night three young Palestinians." 

Because finding murderers and killing them in shootouts when trying to arrest them is the crime, and shooting Jews waiting at a bus stop is heroic. 

This is the "moderate" group that Mahmoud Abbas heads, and that the world still considers to be peaceful.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah gleeful about killing Jews - and mourning over terrorists that kill them ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah “prays for the souls” of 2 murderers  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

In another display of real sleaze, "Palestinian-American" Linda Sarsour will be hosting some of the worst-of-the-bunch with regard to Islamist fascists. 
*
Linda Sarsour, unfazed by new anti-Semitism charges, will keynote radical Islamist gathering*


*



*


*At the Chicago conference, Sarsour will be joined by a who’s who of America’s most fringe Islamist preachers, including:*

*Imam Omar Suleiman, a gay-bashing imam who has endorsed honor killings, the act of murdering a family member for her allegedly inappropriate behavior to restore “honor” within the community or household.*

*Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Hamas-tied Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a U.S.-based group that was founded to build support for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States. Awad has previously declaredthat he is “in support of the Hamas movement,” which remains a U.S.-designatedterrorist organization. The UAE recently listed CAIR itself as a terrorist organization.*

*Mazen Mokhtar, who was identified in a federal affidavit as the individual behind a website to raise funds for the Taliban and Chechen terrorists. *

*The groups that combined to host the confab share an extremist, anti-American agenda.*



Lovely. A gathering of islamic misfits.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In another display of real sleaze, "Palestinian-American" Linda Sarsour will be hosting some of the worst-of-the-bunch with regard to Islamist fascists.
> *
> Linda Sarsour, unfazed by new anti-Semitism charges, will keynote radical Islamist gathering*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *At the Chicago conference, Sarsour will be joined by a who’s who of America’s most fringe Islamist preachers, including:*
> 
> *Imam Omar Suleiman, a gay-bashing imam who has endorsed honor killings, the act of murdering a family member for her allegedly inappropriate behavior to restore “honor” within the community or household.*
> 
> *Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Hamas-tied Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a U.S.-based group that was founded to build support for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States. Awad has previously declaredthat he is “in support of the Hamas movement,” which remains a U.S.-designatedterrorist organization. The UAE recently listed CAIR itself as a terrorist organization.*
> 
> *Mazen Mokhtar, who was identified in a federal affidavit as the individual behind a website to raise funds for the Taliban and Chechen terrorists. *
> 
> *The groups that combined to host the confab share an extremist, anti-American agenda.*
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely. A gathering of islamic misfits.


*2018 SALAM Annual Banquet_Linda Sarsour*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another display of real sleaze, "Palestinian-American" Linda Sarsour will be hosting some of the worst-of-the-bunch with regard to Islamist fascists.
> *
> Linda Sarsour, unfazed by new anti-Semitism charges, will keynote radical Islamist gathering*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *At the Chicago conference, Sarsour will be joined by a who’s who of America’s most fringe Islamist preachers, including:*
> 
> *Imam Omar Suleiman, a gay-bashing imam who has endorsed honor killings, the act of murdering a family member for her allegedly inappropriate behavior to restore “honor” within the community or household.*
> 
> *Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Hamas-tied Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a U.S.-based group that was founded to build support for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States. Awad has previously declaredthat he is “in support of the Hamas movement,” which remains a U.S.-designatedterrorist organization. The UAE recently listed CAIR itself as a terrorist organization.*
> 
> *Mazen Mokhtar, who was identified in a federal affidavit as the individual behind a website to raise funds for the Taliban and Chechen terrorists. *
> 
> *The groups that combined to host the confab share an extremist, anti-American agenda.*
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely. A gathering of islamic misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> *2018 SALAM Annual Banquet_Linda Sarsour*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


In connection with Linda Sarsour and the Chicago conference with the Iman who is a big fan of “honor” killing, do you think Linda Sarsour chooses to ignore the fact that the beneficiaries of Arab-Islamist “honor” killings, beatings, acid attacks, gang rapes, etc., are almost exclusively young women?

If you’re planning on attending the conference and flailing your Pom Poms for the Iman, be sure to post that YouTube video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another display of real sleaze, "Palestinian-American" Linda Sarsour will be hosting some of the worst-of-the-bunch with regard to Islamist fascists.
> *
> Linda Sarsour, unfazed by new anti-Semitism charges, will keynote radical Islamist gathering*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *At the Chicago conference, Sarsour will be joined by a who’s who of America’s most fringe Islamist preachers, including:*
> 
> *Imam Omar Suleiman, a gay-bashing imam who has endorsed honor killings, the act of murdering a family member for her allegedly inappropriate behavior to restore “honor” within the community or household.*
> 
> *Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Hamas-tied Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a U.S.-based group that was founded to build support for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States. Awad has previously declaredthat he is “in support of the Hamas movement,” which remains a U.S.-designatedterrorist organization. The UAE recently listed CAIR itself as a terrorist organization.*
> 
> *Mazen Mokhtar, who was identified in a federal affidavit as the individual behind a website to raise funds for the Taliban and Chechen terrorists. *
> 
> *The groups that combined to host the confab share an extremist, anti-American agenda.*
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely. A gathering of islamic misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> *2018 SALAM Annual Banquet_Linda Sarsour*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In connection with Linda Sarsour and the Chicago conference with the Iman who is a big fan of “honor” killing, do you think Linda Sarsour chooses to ignore the fact that the beneficiaries of Arab-Islamist “honor” killings, beatings, acid attacks, gang rapes, etc., are almost exclusively young women?
> 
> If you’re planning on attending the conference and flailing your Pom Poms for the Iman, be sure to post that YouTube video.
Click to expand...

I find that the *reports* of what people say are exaggerated and/or taken out of context. I tend not to believe them especially if they are presented by a propaganda organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another display of real sleaze, "Palestinian-American" Linda Sarsour will be hosting some of the worst-of-the-bunch with regard to Islamist fascists.
> *
> Linda Sarsour, unfazed by new anti-Semitism charges, will keynote radical Islamist gathering*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *At the Chicago conference, Sarsour will be joined by a who’s who of America’s most fringe Islamist preachers, including:*
> 
> *Imam Omar Suleiman, a gay-bashing imam who has endorsed honor killings, the act of murdering a family member for her allegedly inappropriate behavior to restore “honor” within the community or household.*
> 
> *Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Hamas-tied Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a U.S.-based group that was founded to build support for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States. Awad has previously declaredthat he is “in support of the Hamas movement,” which remains a U.S.-designatedterrorist organization. The UAE recently listed CAIR itself as a terrorist organization.*
> 
> *Mazen Mokhtar, who was identified in a federal affidavit as the individual behind a website to raise funds for the Taliban and Chechen terrorists. *
> 
> *The groups that combined to host the confab share an extremist, anti-American agenda.*
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely. A gathering of islamic misfits.
> 
> 
> 
> *2018 SALAM Annual Banquet_Linda Sarsour*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In connection with Linda Sarsour and the Chicago conference with the Iman who is a big fan of “honor” killing, do you think Linda Sarsour chooses to ignore the fact that the beneficiaries of Arab-Islamist “honor” killings, beatings, acid attacks, gang rapes, etc., are almost exclusively young women?
> 
> If you’re planning on attending the conference and flailing your Pom Poms for the Iman, be sure to post that YouTube video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find that the *reports* of what people say are exaggerated and/or taken out of context. I tend not to believe them especially if they are presented by a propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Your goofy conspiracy theory rattling is a hoot?


----------



## Sixties Fan

A few anti-Abbas posters make Palestinian leaders freak out ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

*RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 *
⁜→  _et al_,

Yes, well worth the read-time.



Sixties Fan said:


> A few anti-Abbas posters make Palestinian leaders freak out ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*






It is kind-of funny...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Arabs, Jews.....it is a free for all in Judea and Samaria by Allah blood thirsty Muslims ]

One of the attacks targeted an* Israeli Arab woman* who told security personnel when she eventually reached safety at the Tena’im checkpoint that she tried to shout to her attackers that this was a case of* “mistaken identity” — but to no avail. *She was hit in the head by one of the rocks that rained down upon her car as she traveled the road between the communities of Avnei Hefetz and Einav. The woman was evacuated by medics with the Magen David Adom emergency medical service to Meir Hospital in Kfar Saba.

Later in the day, a Jewish teen was taken for treatment to the Ziv Medical Center in Tzfat after he and several others were attacked by Arabs in northern Israel. The teen was struck in the face by a rock thrown by one of the Arabs during the attack. The wound required a number of stitches, according to the Honenu civil rights organization.

(full article online)

Sharp Escalation in Stoning, Firebombing Terror Attacks in Judea & Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas’s security forces use batons to ‘brutally beat’ Hamas protesters in Hebron


----------



## Hollie

A former politburo mouthpiece of the Hamas franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. _is issuing the call to gee-had. 

While Arabs-Moslems didn't invent suicide bombing as a tactic, pious Moslems are the ones saying these heinous crimes are legitimate, honorable and praiseworthy, simply because they have changed the definition of mass murder / suicide to “martyrdom”.


"Former Hamas Leader Khaled Mashal Calls for West Bank "Guerrilla Warfare," States:  "I Resist, Therefore I Am"" 

_Former chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau Khaled Mashal said that resistance is the basis of day-to-day life for people under occupation, and that just as people say "I think, therefore I am," the Palestinians say: "I resist, therefore I am." Explaining that the abandonment of jihad leads to humiliation and death, Mashal said that resistance is the pinnacle of life. He criticized Fatah for not engaging in "resistance" and added: "The West Bank, which spans over 5,600 square kilometers, and which has mountains and valleys... has everything necessary for guerrilla warfare." Mashal's comments aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on December 2, 2018._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rockets mounted on a truck during a parade by Hamas in the city of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, December 15, 2018 (alqassam.net)

Hamas displays apparent truck-mounted rockets at parade to mark its founding


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, _et al_,

Boy! Is this a train wreck waiting to happen.

As soon as the IDF see one of these points the launch tubes in the direction of Israel, some unemployed AH-64 Apache Longbow is going to nail it. 



Sixties Fan said:


>


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> Boy! Is this a train wreck waiting to happen.
> 
> As soon as the IDF see one of these points the launch tubes in the direction of Israel, some unemployed AH-64 Apache Longbow is going to nail it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
Click to expand...

Only if they send the rockets over the Israeli boarder.
They are aware of all fronts and the weapons they have.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Rockets mounted on a truck during a parade by Hamas in the city of Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, December 15, 2018 (alqassam.net)
> 
> Hamas displays apparent truck-mounted rockets at parade to mark its founding



The Iranian Mullocracy (likely the ones who paid for the weaponry) must be laughing all the way to the mosque. The most hated enemies of the Shia include Jews and Sunni Moslems. The Mullahs must be giggling like schoolgirls at the thought of Sunni Hamas Islamists being played for fools as Shia errand boys.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pulitzer-nominated photographer posted support for terrorism on Instagram


----------



## Sixties Fan

Try telling that to Mona herself. Her Facebook profile reveals she identifies as an Arab living in Israel.

Mona also shares a number of posts in Hebrew, including to this business which proudly shows Mona off.

(full article online)

ttp://www.israellycool.com/2018/12/14/shehab-news-proclaims-worlds-youngest-doctor-is-palestinian-she-is-neither-palestinian-nor-worlds-youngest/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas media claims Israel bans Gaza Christians from Bethlehem. Latin Patriarchate says otherwise. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Where are all of Gaza's Christians going? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas leader ‘not denying’ that West Bank terror attacks were ordered from Gaza


----------



## Hollie

The sort of unhinged ranting by “Pal’istanian” nutbars would be absolutely comical, except these idiots are serious. With references to India and Spain, the good Sheik is lamenting the seventh century promise of supremacy over the infidel that was left as a legacy by the inventor of islam. 


"Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord" 

_Sheikh Nasser Maarouf of  the Palestine Islamic Scholars Association said that that Palestinian mujahideen have the advantage of waging Jihad against the Jews. He said that a martyr killed by the Jews receives twice the reward of one who was killed by other infidels, and he explained that Allah had turned the Jews into apes and pigs because He hated them. Giving the examples of India, Africa, and medieval Spain, Maarouf said that the abandonment of Jihad causes discord and corruption of faith. He said that Jihad is necessary because it is the nature of Allah's enemies to fight Muslims. Sheikh Maarouf spoke on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) on December 2, 2018._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Leader Whines Israel Won’t Allow Sister’s Shiva Visit to Gaza


----------



## Mindful

For around 500 years prior to World War I the entire Middle East was "owned" by the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was much like the United States in that it was divided into Vilayets (provinces) which were similar to states. People moved freely from province to province as they liked.

After that, the British took control.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Fatah: Terrorist murderers are "Martyrs" and "moons hosted by Allah"*

*Fatah accompanies "our heroic Martyrs" to "their weddings" *

*Fatah to Palestinians: "We call on the masses of our people to escalate the confrontation"*

(full article online)

Palestinian Red Crescent honors murderers, respects the Martyrs’ blood - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pregnant woman injured in Arab stoning attack in Samaria


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Hamas Urges Palestinian Authority Citizens to Prepare for Guerrilla War Against Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians are not born hating Jews. That hatred is learned, and for the Palestinians, it is vital.

This is how for generations they have been churning out terrorists who shoot, stab and run over pregnant women, children asleep in their beds, and soldiers and police officers on guard duty. Along with the aspiration to martyrdom and the willingness to die, hatred is apparently the basis for the Palestinian loss of fear and Israel's loss of deterrence, two issues that are often discussed together.



The Palestinians feed their children hatred with their mothers' milk. Where else in the world will you find a society that gives babies names like "Knife of Jerusalem" and posts pictures of them on Facebook holding weapons in their tiny hands? Where else on Earth are sports teams, streets and schools named after the murderers of children and the elderly?

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/this-is-hatred/


----------



## Hollie

Just more of the putrid bile from the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.

Praising the killer of an infant as a “hero”. 

It seems that mental illness can be a learned phenomenon.
*

Fatah “prays for the souls” of 2 murderers *
*
Fatah “prays for the souls” of 2 murderers  - PMW Bulletins

Fatah “prays for the souls” of 2 murderers 
- “The heroes of the homeland”

Murderer of baby is “Martyr” who “whispered to the land: ‘I’ll give you the most precious thing I have - my blood and my soul’”

Murderer of two Israeli co-workers is “the legend,” “heroic,” and “a Martyr”

"The heroic Martyrs of the homeland are sketching the map of the homeland with their pure blood... Eternity and glory to you... [The winds] spread a scent... similar to the scent of musk - and it is not surprising, for on that ground is a Martyr who was killed for his Lord and his land. His pure soul went out to the Lord of Heaven and earth... These are the Martyrs of Palestine. They live today with their Lord”
;





k
On poster with splashes of blood and images of the two murderers: “Eternity and praise to our righteous Martyrs,” “In Paradise, the meeting place”
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The Israeli baby who had to be delivered prematurely because its mother was shot and seriously wounded in a terror attack last week died yesterday. 

Today, Abbas’ Fatah Movement “prays for the soul” of the baby’s murderer.

Yesterday, two terrorist murderers were killed when Israeli forces tried to arrest them. One terrorist murderer was Saleh Omar Saleh Barghouti, who murdered the baby who died as a result of a shooting attack last week in which he wounded 7 Israelis, including the pregnant mother. The other terrorist murderer was Ashraf Walid Suleiman Na’alwa who in October this year shot and murdered 2 of his Israeli coworkers in the factory where they all worked. 
Hamas' military wing, the Izz A-Din Al-Qassam Brigades, claimed responsibility for both attacks.

Today, Fatah honors these two murderers as “heroes of the homeland” in several posts on Facebook. Fatah wished the murderers “eternity and glory,” praised their “pure blood” and “pure soul,” and described the “scent of musk of the Martyr.” Abbas’ movement stressed the fact that these two murderers were “killed for their Lord and their land”: 

- “The heroes of the homeland”*

*Murderer of baby is “Martyr” who “whispered to the land: ‘I’ll give you the most precious thing I have - my blood and my soul’”*

*Murderer of two Israeli co-workers is “the legend,” “heroic,” and “a Martyr”*

*"The heroic Martyrs of the homeland are sketching the map of the homeland with their pure blood... Eternity and glory to you... [The winds] spread a scent... similar to the scent of musk - and it is not surprising, for on that ground is a Martyr who was killed for his Lord and his land. His pure soul went out to the Lord of Heaven and earth... These are the Martyrs of Palestine. They live today with their Lord”*
;*




*
*On poster with splashes of blood and images of the two murderers: “Eternity and praise to our righteous Martyrs,” “In Paradise, the meeting place”*
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The Israeli baby who had to be delivered prematurely because its mother was shot and seriously wounded in a terror attack last week died yesterday. 

Today, Abbas’ Fatah Movement “prays for the soul” of the baby’s murderer.

Yesterday, two terrorist murderers were killed when Israeli forces tried to arrest them. One terrorist murderer was Saleh Omar Saleh Barghouti, who murdered the baby who died as a result of a shooting attack last week in which he wounded 7 Israelis, including the pregnant mother. The other terrorist murderer was Ashraf Walid Suleiman Na’alwa who in October this year shot and murdered 2 of his Israeli coworkers in the factory where they all worked. 
Hamas' military wing, the Izz A-Din Al-Qassam Brigades, claimed responsibility for both attacks.

Today, Fatah honors these two murderers as “heroes of the homeland” in several posts on Facebook. Fatah wished the murderers “eternity and glory,” praised their “pure blood” and “pure soul,” and described the “scent of musk of the Martyr.” Abbas’ movement stressed the fact that these two murderers were “killed for their Lord and their land”:


----------



## Sixties Fan

I knew he was arrested by Israel as a hate-filled teenager — a victim both of childhood rape, and of the extremist conditioning of his home and schooling. (“It wasn’t ‘take a gun and kill the Jews’ at school,” he says. “But it was ‘the Zionists stole our land.'”) He was caught with a gun, with which he fully intended to kill Israelis. I knew he’d begun to ask questions when, in jail, he saw Hamas inmates torture and even kill fellow Hamas inmates they (falsely) suspected were collaborating with Israel, and that he’d ultimately undergo what he called in the documentary a “crazy transformation” — from trying to murder Israelis to risking his life in order to save them.

(full article online)

Just trying to save lives: 5 surreal days in Florida with the ‘Son of Hamas’


----------



## Sixties Fan

I responded on Twitter: Saeb – you’re not a lawyer. There’s no violation of international law in recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. You seem to confuse international law with UN resolutions which are not international law.

Saeb – I value this opportunity to communicate with you after so many years since we worked together on the 1995 Oslo Interim Agreement.

Permit me to remind you and your colleagues of some basic facts and truths:

A Palestinian state does not exist because it cannot fulfill the accepted international law criteria for statehood. The Palestinians are divided among themselves and sponsor, support, finance and encourage terror.

The fact that the PLO is committed by the Oslo Accords to negotiate with Israel on the issue of the permanent status of the territories is indicative of the fact that permanent status has not yet been agreed upon, and thus there can be no Palestinian state.

Basing their claim to statehood on a 2012 non-binding General Assembly resolution is totally flawed, manipulative, and misleading. The General Assembly is not empowered to establish states. It only upgraded the Palestinian Authority’s observer status and reaffirmed the necessity to negotiate.

Since the PLO is not a state, it therefore cannot be party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court  (ICC), which is specifically open only to states. Clearly, the ICC cannot exercise jurisdiction over territory that you falsely claim to be sovereign Palestinian territory. It is not Palestinian territory, since its status has yet to be determined through the negotiating process to which the PLO is committed. The fact that the Palestinians politically manipulated the UN and ICC into viewing them as a state is legally flawed and has yet to be reviewed juridically.

The fact that the Palestinians manipulatively present themselves as a state and accede to international treaties and organizations is legally flawed and an abuse of the bona fides of the international community, as well as being a serious violation of the Oslo Accords that they negotiated.

The Palestinians’ fixation with the “1967 borders” has no legal basis. No such borders ever existed. There is no reference in any of the agreements between Israel and the Palestinians to 1967. To the contrary – the determination of borders is an agreed final status negotiating issue.

Similarly, Palestinian claims that establishing the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem violates international law is simply false, including your curious litigation in the International Court of Justice  (ICJ) against the U.S. No provision of international law prevents this.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Claim to Statehood: An Open Letter to PLO Negotiator Saeb Erekat


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the logic of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas's Ministry of Information, Israeli soldiers searching for terrorists is an "act of terrorism," but not the shooting of a pregnant woman and six other Israeli civilians standing at a bus stop.


The message that Abbas is sending to the world is: How dare these Israelis take security measures to stop terrorist attacks against their soldiers and civilians!


Finally, we might mention an important detail about which Abbas and his representatives are keeping their mouths shut tight: the Israeli crackdown on Hamas in the West Bank actually serves the interests of the Palestinian Authority. Without this ongoing crackdown, Hamas would have long ago overthrown Abbas's regime and seized control of the West Bank.
(full article online)

Palestinians: Shooting a Pregnant Woman and Lying


----------



## Sixties Fan

For Palestinians, Incitement Is a Way of Life


----------



## Sixties Fan

Omissions and Oversimplifications: HRW’s Report on PA and Hamas Torture


----------



## Hollie

Biting the hand the signs your welfare check.

While an outright refusal of the Dutch to continue funding Islamic terrorism would have been the right choice, their small gesture of a welfare pay cur to the Arab-Moslem Cultists is a move in the right direction

Unfortunately, we in the West still refuse to understand that Islamic terrorists are not "made" by others. The names they operate under are subordinate to the cause of their ideology. That ideology, of course, is gee—had: warfare to expand the dominion of Allah's religion, as elucidated in the Koran.


Following PMW lecture, Dutch parliament passes motion to cut funding to PA - PMW Bulletins

By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberd






_Kay Wilson and PMW director Marcus 
speaking to MPs_

Just three weeks after Palestinian Media WatchDirector Itamar Marcus spoke to Dutch MPs in November, *the Dutch Parliament voted 94-56 to cut 7% of Dutch funding to the Palestinian Authority.* The cut of 7% was chosen because PMW documented that the PA spends 7% of its budget on payments to terrorists in jail and to families of killed terrorists ("Martyrs"). The Dutch motion is binding unless the PA stops these payments.


Following PMW lecture, Dutch parliament passes motion to cut funding to PA - PMW Bulletins

Dutch MP Joël Voordewind responded to the PMW lecture by saying that he would propose legislation:
"I was very impressed with the story of Kay Wilson that she survived 13 stabbings in her body. This makes Itamar Marcus' appeal even stronger, that the [PA's] paying of convicted terrorists should stop... We're now part of the government...Hopefully the other parties will agree to cut the budget from the PA, by the amount they're spending on the terrorists."                            
[Parliament of The Netherlands, Nov. 7, 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

Birzeit University of Ramallah to close Tueday after fights between Hamas and Fatah students ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> I responded on Twitter: Saeb – you’re not a lawyer. There’s no violation of international law in recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. You seem to confuse international law with UN resolutions which are not international law.
> 
> Saeb – I value this opportunity to communicate with you after so many years since we worked together on the 1995 Oslo Interim Agreement.
> 
> Permit me to remind you and your colleagues of some basic facts and truths:
> 
> A Palestinian state does not exist because it cannot fulfill the accepted international law criteria for statehood. The Palestinians are divided among themselves and sponsor, support, finance and encourage terror.
> 
> The fact that the PLO is committed by the Oslo Accords to negotiate with Israel on the issue of the permanent status of the territories is indicative of the fact that permanent status has not yet been agreed upon, and thus there can be no Palestinian state.
> 
> Basing their claim to statehood on a 2012 non-binding General Assembly resolution is totally flawed, manipulative, and misleading. The General Assembly is not empowered to establish states. It only upgraded the Palestinian Authority’s observer status and reaffirmed the necessity to negotiate.
> 
> Since the PLO is not a state, it therefore cannot be party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court  (ICC), which is specifically open only to states. Clearly, the ICC cannot exercise jurisdiction over territory that you falsely claim to be sovereign Palestinian territory. It is not Palestinian territory, since its status has yet to be determined through the negotiating process to which the PLO is committed. The fact that the Palestinians politically manipulated the UN and ICC into viewing them as a state is legally flawed and has yet to be reviewed juridically.
> 
> The fact that the Palestinians manipulatively present themselves as a state and accede to international treaties and organizations is legally flawed and an abuse of the bona fides of the international community, as well as being a serious violation of the Oslo Accords that they negotiated.
> 
> The Palestinians’ fixation with the “1967 borders” has no legal basis. No such borders ever existed. There is no reference in any of the agreements between Israel and the Palestinians to 1967. To the contrary – the determination of borders is an agreed final status negotiating issue.
> 
> Similarly, Palestinian claims that establishing the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem violates international law is simply false, including your curious litigation in the International Court of Justice  (ICJ) against the U.S. No provision of international law prevents this.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Claim to Statehood: An Open Letter to PLO Negotiator Saeb Erekat


The Status of Jerusalem under International Law and United Nations Resolutions | The Institute for Palestine Studies


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I responded on Twitter: Saeb – you’re not a lawyer. There’s no violation of international law in recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. You seem to confuse international law with UN resolutions which are not international law.
> 
> Saeb – I value this opportunity to communicate with you after so many years since we worked together on the 1995 Oslo Interim Agreement.
> 
> Permit me to remind you and your colleagues of some basic facts and truths:
> 
> A Palestinian state does not exist because it cannot fulfill the accepted international law criteria for statehood. The Palestinians are divided among themselves and sponsor, support, finance and encourage terror.
> 
> The fact that the PLO is committed by the Oslo Accords to negotiate with Israel on the issue of the permanent status of the territories is indicative of the fact that permanent status has not yet been agreed upon, and thus there can be no Palestinian state.
> 
> Basing their claim to statehood on a 2012 non-binding General Assembly resolution is totally flawed, manipulative, and misleading. The General Assembly is not empowered to establish states. It only upgraded the Palestinian Authority’s observer status and reaffirmed the necessity to negotiate.
> 
> Since the PLO is not a state, it therefore cannot be party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court  (ICC), which is specifically open only to states. Clearly, the ICC cannot exercise jurisdiction over territory that you falsely claim to be sovereign Palestinian territory. It is not Palestinian territory, since its status has yet to be determined through the negotiating process to which the PLO is committed. The fact that the Palestinians politically manipulated the UN and ICC into viewing them as a state is legally flawed and has yet to be reviewed juridically.
> 
> The fact that the Palestinians manipulatively present themselves as a state and accede to international treaties and organizations is legally flawed and an abuse of the bona fides of the international community, as well as being a serious violation of the Oslo Accords that they negotiated.
> 
> The Palestinians’ fixation with the “1967 borders” has no legal basis. No such borders ever existed. There is no reference in any of the agreements between Israel and the Palestinians to 1967. To the contrary – the determination of borders is an agreed final status negotiating issue.
> 
> Similarly, Palestinian claims that establishing the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem violates international law is simply false, including your curious litigation in the International Court of Justice  (ICJ) against the U.S. No provision of international law prevents this.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Claim to Statehood: An Open Letter to PLO Negotiator Saeb Erekat
> 
> 
> 
> The Status of Jerusalem under International Law and United Nations Resolutions | The Institute for Palestine Studies
Click to expand...

We are going to get the truth from the Institute for Palestine Studies?

Written by "Palestinians" for "Palestinians" for a Palestine free of Jews.

You are a joke.  A huge one.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Status of Jerusalem under International Law and United Nations Resolutions | The Institute for Palestine Studies


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I responded on Twitter: Saeb – you’re not a lawyer. There’s no violation of international law in recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. You seem to confuse international law with UN resolutions which are not international law.
> 
> Saeb – I value this opportunity to communicate with you after so many years since we worked together on the 1995 Oslo Interim Agreement.
> 
> Permit me to remind you and your colleagues of some basic facts and truths:
> 
> A Palestinian state does not exist because it cannot fulfill the accepted international law criteria for statehood. The Palestinians are divided among themselves and sponsor, support, finance and encourage terror.
> 
> The fact that the PLO is committed by the Oslo Accords to negotiate with Israel on the issue of the permanent status of the territories is indicative of the fact that permanent status has not yet been agreed upon, and thus there can be no Palestinian state.
> 
> Basing their claim to statehood on a 2012 non-binding General Assembly resolution is totally flawed, manipulative, and misleading. The General Assembly is not empowered to establish states. It only upgraded the Palestinian Authority’s observer status and reaffirmed the necessity to negotiate.
> 
> Since the PLO is not a state, it therefore cannot be party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court  (ICC), which is specifically open only to states. Clearly, the ICC cannot exercise jurisdiction over territory that you falsely claim to be sovereign Palestinian territory. It is not Palestinian territory, since its status has yet to be determined through the negotiating process to which the PLO is committed. The fact that the Palestinians politically manipulated the UN and ICC into viewing them as a state is legally flawed and has yet to be reviewed juridically.
> 
> The fact that the Palestinians manipulatively present themselves as a state and accede to international treaties and organizations is legally flawed and an abuse of the bona fides of the international community, as well as being a serious violation of the Oslo Accords that they negotiated.
> 
> The Palestinians’ fixation with the “1967 borders” has no legal basis. No such borders ever existed. There is no reference in any of the agreements between Israel and the Palestinians to 1967. To the contrary – the determination of borders is an agreed final status negotiating issue.
> 
> Similarly, Palestinian claims that establishing the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem violates international law is simply false, including your curious litigation in the International Court of Justice  (ICJ) against the U.S. No provision of international law prevents this.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Claim to Statehood: An Open Letter to PLO Negotiator Saeb Erekat
> 
> 
> 
> The Status of Jerusalem under International Law and United Nations Resolutions | The Institute for Palestine Studies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are going to get the truth from the Institute for Palestine Studies?
> 
> Written by "Palestinians" for "Palestinians" for a Palestine free of Jews.
> 
> You are a joke.  A huge one.
Click to expand...

Well then, post something from a neutral source.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Poster in PA classroom promotes Martyrdom death 

Source: Facebook page of Zayzafuna magazine for children, Feb. 6, 2017
Text and pictures posted on the Facebook page of the PLO _Zayzafuna _magazine for children







In the top picture, a picture of Yasser Arafat and the Dome of the Rock hangs on the wall on the right, and next to Arafat is written "Martyr (_Shahid_), Martyr, Martyr," referring to Arafat's well-known statement: "They want me as a prisoner, a refugee, or dead. I say to them: 'Martyr, Martyr, Martyr.'"

*Posted text:* "The Zayzafuna Association for Development of Children's Culture today, Monday, Feb. 6, 2017, held a literary activity at the Tell High School for Girls in the Nablus Education Directorate (i.e., under the PA Ministry of Education), as part of which a group from Zayzafuna met… with 35 students from grades 7 – 11."

_Zayzafuna is a PLO magazine for children partially funded by the PA. The magazine, which includes material written by both the magazine’s staff and child readers, represents the values of the educators and serves as a window into the minds of the Palestinian children submitting material to the magazine. Zayzafuna's website states that the magazine's advisory board is comprised of PA officials and educators, including Jihad Zakarneh, PA Deputy Minister of Education, and Abd Al-Hakim Abu Jamous, Head of the Media Department at the PA Ministry of Education. Since September 2015, Zayzafuna included a note on its second page thanking the PA Ministry of Finance for its financial support of the magazine (true as of the time of this writing, May 2016). In May 2011, the Deputy Chairman of the Zayzafuna organization Abd Al-Karim Ziyada explained on PA TV that the PA gives "a monthly payment of 10,000 shekels ($2,700) to cover the magazine's [costs]." [Official PA TV, May 9 and 13, 2011]

Motivating children to seek Shahada | PMW_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ No, nothing to do with Islamic ideology, nothing ]

The mother of terrorist Salah al-Barghouti who carried out the attack in Ofra said her son's death in the IDF operation was "a mercy on him".

"We'll continue to bless Allah all our lives. We firmly believe that as long as the occupation exists, falling in the path of Allah will remain the way we will go."

(full article online)

Muslim mothers thank Allah for death of their sons


----------



## Sixties Fan

Think tank: Terrorists to be paid as PA allots NIS 1.2b. for inmates, ‘martyrs’


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in one of the most Jew haten’est places on the planet. 

 A society that breeds self-contempt and contempt for non-Cult members holds collective responsibility for crimes against their offspring and the the crimes those offspring commit. It is no use expecting any law enforcement to step into the breach when you have allowed your child to be indoctrinated into the ideology of religiously sanctioned murder/suicide.

At some point, the first, and only concern of the targets of the insane is protecting their own. 



"Antisemitic Friday Sermon on PA TV: Allah Turned Jews into Apes and Pigs; Vile Traits Run in Their Genes; Humanity Cannot Coexist with Them"


On December 14, 2018, Palestine TV (Palestinian Authority) aired a sermon delivered by Sheikh Osama Al-Tibi at the Taqwa Mosque in Al-Tira, near Ramallah. Sheikh Al-Tibi said that the Jews have not changed throughout history despite Muslim attempts at peace. He said that he does not claim to be able to mention all of the Jews' despicable traits, and that they are accursed, tyrannical, cowardly, and humiliated violators of agreements who spread discord and corruption, conspire against humanity, bare their fangs at every opportunity, and with whom humanity can never coexist. He said that Allah turned them into apes and pigs, and that their vile and filthy genes are passed down from one generation of Jews to the next. He explained that this is the reason that Europe, America, and other countries "vomited the Jews out" and threw them to the Arabs and Muslims. Sheikh Al-Tibi added that the conflict between the Jews and Muslims will continue until Judgment Day, when the Jews will hide behind the rocks and the trees, which will call to the Muslims to kill the Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a presidential election between Abbas and Hamas leader Haniyeh, Haniyeh would win, 49% to 42%. But most would prefer to elect terrorist Marwan Barghouti, now in an Israeli prison.

88% of Palestinians say that other Palestinians who sell property to Israeli Jews  are traitors while 9% call them merely "corrupt and unpatriotic." A clear majority of Palestinians, 64%, support the death penalty for anyone who sells land to Jews.

Interestingly, a large majority of Palestinians both in Gaza and the West Bank support Qatari efforts to provide salaries to Hamas employees in Gaza as well as its providing fuel for electricity, both of which the PA vehemently oppose.

55% oppose a two state solution, without being asked what they want to see. Other polls from different organisations have consistently shown that most Palestinians want a single Palestinian state and no Israel, either immediately or after a stage of a two state phase.  It is a shame that this polling outfit does not want to ask that question, albeit for obvious reasons, because it would show how Palestinians are really not interested in real peace.

(full article online)

New poll shows Palestinians support terror and want a new violent intifada ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

And still, the international community continues to write welfare checks to enable these psychopaths.



Israelis are “blood suckers,” says mother of 6 terrorists who murdered at least 10  - PMW Bulletins

*Israelis are "blood suckers," *
*
says mother of 6 terrorists who murdered at least 10* 






*PA officials about the 6 terrorists: They are "a crown of honor"*

*Fatah official about mother of the 6 terrorists: She is "the mother of the Palestinian people"*

*Following demolition of terror mom's home, Abbas ordered it rebuilt "immediately." PA and Fatah: It is "an obligation" and "a national responsibility"*

*Terror mom: "We... extend our hands to peace, [Israelis] extend their hands to murder... We are even prepared to live in peace between us, but they don't want peace. They are bloodsuckers*


----------



## Hollie

Prepare yourselves for a bout of nausea. Yes, it's another day in the life (or what passes for such) in a truly deranged islamic terrorist Cult.

Apparently the debilitating disease of IDS (Islamic Derangement Syndrome), now includes islamic terrorist sponsored "festive events" where the mothers of dead cultists can celebrate their shared pathology of churning out Islamo-bots, raised to pursue death and self-destruction.

I mean, what mother wouldn't take pride in her young Cultist a'splodin in a bright orange flash and thunderous explosion to make Hamas rich?




Muslim mothers thank Allah for death of their sons

*Muslim mothers thank Allah for death of their sons*
Mother of terrorist who carried out attack in Ofra on her son's death: 'We'll continue to bless Allah all our lives.'

Dalit Halevy, 18/12/18 21:00






Hamas members of the fairer sex
Flash 90
On the occasion of the 31st anniversary of its founding, Hamas held a series of festive events in which it chose to celebrate the contribution of the mothers who sent their sons to Jihad against Israel.

The Hamas newspaper _Al-Risala _devoted an article to these mothers. Um Muhammad Buskhar, who gave shelter in her home to terrorist Ashraf Nalwa who carried out the attack in Barkan, asked to convey a message to the Palestinian resistance organizations: "If we could protect him in our stomachs and inside our insides we would."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Outrage over German funding of Palestinian schoolbook praising terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Islamist group affirmed its commitment to “liberating Palestine, declaring the sovereign Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, and freeing the Palestinian detainees held in the Israeli jails.” Once these goals are achieved, Hamas — which has been accused by human rights advocates of perpetrating severe abuses in territory under its rule — said it will build a society “that adopts and promotes freedom, justice, democracy, civil peace, women rights, vulnerable groups’ protection, equality, unity, openness, and peace.”

(full article online)

On 31st Anniversary, Hamas Compares Palestinian Terrorism to Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, Pledges to Resist Israel ‘With All Means Possible’


----------



## Sixties Fan

During a conference held in Gaza on the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People, a Palestinian girl recited a poem that referred to the Jews as wild apes, miserable pigs, and evil creatures destined for humiliation. She said that they are like herds of stupid cattle, and that Jerusalem "spits out [their] filth" because it is a pure virgin. She also said: "I do not fear the rifle… As long as I have my arm and my stones… I will not sell out the Palestinian cause." The conferenc...

(full article and video online)

Poem Recited by Palestinian Girl at Gaza Conference: The Wild Apes and Miserable Pigs (Jews) Are Destined for Humiliation, Jerusalem Spits Out Their Filth


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA TV Host Dana Abu Shamsiya Praises Palestinian Who Stabbed Israeli Policemen: He Harvests Souls on the Battlefield and Is Desired by the Virgins of Paradise


----------



## Hollie

More of the usual incitement and calls for Jew killing that defines the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.

Just pious Moslems following the literal word of Islam's inventor.
*

"Three Martyrs for three Israelis [killed]. 
This is a great thing," says senior Fatah official

Killing 3 innocent Israelis "is a great thing," says Fatah official - PMW Bulletins*


*Abbas Zaki: "We are proudly following the events in the West Bank. 
The young Palestinians are avenging a blood vengeance 
- three Martyrs for three Israelis [killed]. This is a great thing"*


By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Last week, a terrorist shot and murdered 2 Israelis and seriously wounded 2 others in a shooting attack next to Givat Assaf, near Ramallah. The terrorist fled the scene and as of Dec. 20, 2018, has not been apprehended.

Responding to these murders, senior Fatah official Abbas Zaki said it was "a great thing." Applying a twisted logic, Zaki indicated that this terrorist shooting was legitimate *"blood vengeance"* for Palestinians killed by Israel. However, he did not differentiate between deaths of innocent Israelis targeted by terrorists and the deaths of the terrorists who had murdered Israelis and were killed during Israel's attempt to capture them:

*"We are proudly following the events in the West Bank. The young Palestinians are avenging a blood vengeance - three Martyrs (Shahids) for three Israelis. This is a great thing."*
[SHMS News Agency, Dec. 13, 2018; official Facebook page of Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki, Dec. 13, 2018;
official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 16, 2018]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
❖→ Hollie, _et al_,


While I expect nothing less from the Arab Palestinians, I sometimes find it utterly astounding that there are still some in the world who believes these bloodthirsty people searching for peace; or have the moral compass even to find it if they wanted.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians: Give Greenblatt a Nobel for 'falsifying facts'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians: Arab journalists’ visit to Israel a ‘crime’ and ‘sin’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Family of Akram Salameh Blames Israel for His Death. But Are We Responsible For It?


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ❖→ Hollie, _et al_,
> 
> 
> While I expect nothing less from the Arab Palestinians, I sometimes find it utterly astounding that there are still some in the world who believes these bloodthirsty people searching for peace; or have the moral compass even to find it if they wanted.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



Totally agree, Rocco.

I believe it is important to acknowledge we have 1400 years of Arab/Moslem and Jewish relationships to reach conclusions about the bloodthirsty nature of Palestinian/Moslem Arabs.

The conflicts that arose from the influx of Western/European ideologies to the area of Palestine in the 18th and 19th centuries (in the final century of the Ottoman Empire,) including Western notions of "equal rights" and equal dignity, the joint rise of Arab nationalism, and the world tragedy of WWII were monumental in human terms. The Islamic majority had never had any notion or pretense of freedoms being extended to the non-Moslems and they were the freedoms, opportunity, equality, and even security that Moslems reserved for themselves.  

History has shown that Islam was passed by as the Renaissance, the European enlightenment, and finally the scientific-technological revolution, all predicated on free thought and open debate, which allowed the West to progress in new avenues of social, political and economic advances.

The wars that Muhammud lead, the ethnic cleansing of Yathrib in a historical context and the near ethnic cleansing of non-Moslems from the Middle East in a modern context, the tacit permission for his soldiers to rape war captives, the permission of sexual slavery (or slavery at all). The assassination of political rivals. The practice of banditry and caravan raids. The marriage to Aisha. The very reason these occurrences are even a part of the historical record is because Moslems recorded these events. They were perfectly fine with the ideas of sexual slavery, genocide and piracy. Those behaviors were not morally objectionable to them, and so they were dutifully recorded with the intention of preserving the history of Muhammud as an example for all later Moslems.

All of the behaviors described above were perfectly acceptable in the _zeitgeist_ of Muhammud's day but most of the planet has moved away from sexual slavery, genocide and fascism. Most – not all.  While it may be unfair to cast judgments regarding Muhammud as a 7th century Arab in the context of his time, we have no legitimate reason to accept his behavior in the context of the 21st century. 

However, the standards for judgment are different if, rather than judging Muhammud as a 7th century Arab figure, we instead are judging him as a "model for humanity". In that sense, Muhammud's behavior (and the behavior of Moslems across so much of the Middle East), is irreconcilable with the ethics or the standards of behavior we define as acceptable in the 21st century


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic God is having a sale, at least according to a Death Cult Sheikh. 
Lovely, lovely folks.


"Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord" 


_Sheikh Nasser Maarouf of  the Palestine Islamic Scholars Association said that that Palestinian mujahideen have the advantage of waging Jihad against the Jews. He said that a martyr killed by the Jews receives twice the reward of one who was killed by other infidels, and he explained that Allah had turned the Jews into apes and pigs because He hated them. Giving the examples of India, Africa, and medieval Spain, Maarouf said that the abandonment of Jihad causes discord and corruption of faith. He said that Jihad is necessary because it is the nature of Allah's enemies to fight Muslims. Sheikh Maarouf spoke on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) on December 2, 2018._


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> The Islamic God is having a sale, at least according to a Death Cult Sheikh.
> Lovely, lovely folks.
> 
> 
> "Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord"
> 
> 
> _Sheikh Nasser Maarouf of  the Palestine Islamic Scholars Association said that that Palestinian mujahideen have the advantage of waging Jihad against the Jews. He said that a martyr killed by the Jews receives twice the reward of one who was killed by other infidels, and he explained that Allah had turned the Jews into apes and pigs because He hated them. Giving the examples of India, Africa, and medieval Spain, Maarouf said that the abandonment of Jihad causes discord and corruption of faith. He said that Jihad is necessary because it is the nature of Allah's enemies to fight Muslims. Sheikh Maarouf spoke on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) on December 2, 2018._





 Palestinian *"Cleric"* *(*

*)* Nassar maarouf.....







 he _ain't_ no..._cleric_ or a ....man of the cloth....or a broker of peace...or a "spiritual leader" with GOD in his heart.....

he's...well, *you know*:









 













 ....he really should be resting in an insane asylum, but he's up walking around giving spiritual guidance to the palestinian leaders & their troops....


----------



## Sixties Fan

If You Like the Peace Process, Please Don't Read Polls of Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

When a nation or culture is judged on its success or failure as a nation, one is required to evaluate what unique and positive developments it gave to its people and to mankind.

 With this in mind, it’s worth examining what has been the exceptional prowess we associate with the word "Palestinians."

In a brief history, we remind ourselves that a nation or state called Palestine never existed. The name was an insult, a curse to obliterate the vanquished nation of Israel two millennia ago by the Romans. Today, we have come full circle with Arabs using the term Palestine as an insult and a curse as they attempt to obliterate the modern State of Israel.

A century ago, those described a carrying the term “Palestinians” were mainly the Jews who inhabited the district of Greater Syria, a barren and barely inhabited area of the fading Ottoman Empire, an empire that died after Turkey foolishly allied itself with Germany in World War One and was defeated by the British-led Expeditionary army aided by a volunteer force of Palestinian Jews who fought and died to liberate the land.

The Arabs, during and after the Great War, disliked being called "Palestinian." In 1937, the Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul Hadi, told the United Nations Peel Commission on Palestine that “there is no such country as Palestine. Palestine is a term the Zionists invented. Palestine in alien to us.  Our land was for hundreds of years a part of Syria.” 

This was confirmed decades later in 1970 by no less than Yasser Arafat who admitted in an interview with Italian journalist, Arianna Palazzi, that, “Palestine is nothing but a drop in an enormous ocean…What you call Jordan is nothing more than Palestine.”

They were right. A century ago the Arabs much preferred to live under the tutelage of an Arab ruler based in Damascus. No Arab fought to rid themselves of the Turks west of the River Jordan, and the Arabs east of the Jordan only fought for the Hashemite sheikhs in return for gold, weapons, or booty. When this was not forthcoming by the Britain they drifted back into the desert until money enticed them back to the battlefield.

(full article online)

The Palestinian pioneering spirit


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Some of the Palestinians no one cares about ]

Palestinians in Iraq Fearful After Loss of Saddam-Era Privileges


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fortunately, although many relevant articles about it are censored by Google, the true story is finally being told - there are even articles in today's Mirror and Express with the real story.




(full article online)

Confronting antisemitism and Israel hatred: Lockerbie 30 years on: the atrocity was committed by Palestinian terrorists but it is their 'privilege' not to be blamed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Former Miss Iraq Still Getting Death Threats, Including From Hamas, for Taking Picture With Miss Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Here is a simple solution:  Hamas creates a Palestinian State in Gaza, Fatah creates a Palestinian State in areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.  They know that they are never going to become one, destroy Israel.  Even if they managed, with Hezballah and Iran, to destroy Israel, they would be having a civil war between them for power.  And Hamas would win. Two more Arab States in Mandate for Palestine, besides Jordan.  End of war. ]


Though the parliament has not met since 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, PA law allows for its speaker to act as interim president should 83-year-old Abbas die in office.

Hamas won the last parliamentary elections in 2006 in a landslide, resulting in an electoral dispute with Fatah.

The split between them persists and has defied several reconciliation attempts. A range of issues have kept the two sides apart, including Hamas' refusal to disarm its military wing.

Abbas, whose Fatah is based in Judea and Samaria, has sought to pressure Hamas in recent months by reducing salaries in the Gaza Strip, among other moves.

Abbas's term was meant to expire in 2009, but he has remained in office in the absence of elections.

(full article online)

Hamas rejects Abbas plan to dissolve PA 'parliament'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority’s Preventive Security Service in Ramallah announced on Sunday that its agents had succeeded in thwarting the sale to Jews of 750 acres of land belonging to Arabs.

The lands in question were located in eastern Jerusalem, Ramallah, Shechem, Hebron, Qalqilya and Salfit.

The Preventive Security also warned local Arab land owners against selling land to Jews or suspicious elements who represent Jewish buyers.

44 PA Arabs have recently been arrested and accused of selling land to Jews.

The Palestinian Authority land laws prohibit Arab residents from selling their lands to “any man or judicial body corporation of Israeli citizenship, living in Israel or acting on its behalf,” in a flagrant violation of the civil rights of Jewish buyers.

Land sales to Israelis are considered treason by the PA and PA citizens who sell land to Israelis can be subject to the death penalty. When captured, suspects are tortured by the PA security service and kept behind bars for long periods of time without a trial.

(full article online)

Apartheid: PA Security Boasts of Preventing Sale of 750 Acres to Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

*After 12 years of a non-functioning parliament Abbas suddenly ordered the Palestinian Constitutional Court to meet yesterday to dissolve the parliament. Why now?*

(full article online)

Why did Abbas suddenly dissolve the PA parliament? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Arabs-Moslems, they’re so _islamophobic_™️



*Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
December 20, 2018 at 5:00 am*

*Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid*


According to the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), "legal prohibitions persist on access for Palestinian refugees to 36 liberal or syndicated professions (including in medicine, farming, fishery, and public transportation)... In order to work, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are required to obtain an annual work permit. Following a change in the law in 2001, Palestinian refugees are reportedly prevented from legal acquiring, transferring or inheriting real property in Lebanon."


The latest failure serves as a reminder of the apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon. According to various human rights organizations, Palestinians there suffer systematic discrimination in nearly every aspect of daily life. The UNHCR also points out that the Palestinians in Lebanon do not have access to Lebanese public health services and rely mostly on UNRWA for health services, as well as non-profit organizations and the Palestinian Red Crescent Society. The Palestinians are also denied access to Lebanese public schools.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie,  et al,

I do not understand why...   The Arab Palestinians are refugees, in Lebanon, in part and on account of Lebanon's participation in various acts of aggression against Israel by the Arab League. 



TRUNCATED • Hollie said:


> *Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid*
> apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon.
> •  legal prohibitions persist on access for Palestinian refugees to 36 liberal or syndicated professions (including in medicine, farming, fishery, and public transportation)...
> 
> •  In order to work, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are required to obtain an annual work permit.
> 
> •  prevented from legal acquiring, transferring or inheriting real property in Lebanon."
> 
> • do not have access to Lebanese public health services and rely mostly on UNRWA for health service


*(COMMENT - QUESTIONS)*

The question is → why_?_

These restrict sound more like measures to protect economic concerns and employment positions.

Today's unemployment rate is about  6.7%.




 ​Lebanon has a balanced national healt care system.  



 ​There appears to be at a point that it could push it into a change in financially ineffective medical care. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Rocco -

My take on things is that the Lebanese clearly are motivated by two overriding themes. One is, as you put it, “protect economic concerns and employment positions.” And, I also suspect that within the Lebanese population there is still a deeply held suspiscion for, and long memory of the Black September fiasco in neighboring Jordan,

Accurate numbers are difficult to find but it seems that somewhere between 450,000 to possibly 500,000 Palestinian “refugees” are in Lebanese camps. At least as I understand it, the “refugee” label places most of the financial burden for food and care at UNRWA, not Lebanon.

Nationmaster (Countries Compared by People > Population. International Statistics at NationMaster.com) lists the (2013) population of Lebanon at only 4.13 million people. If Lebanon was to nationalize an additional one-half million people, that represents a sizeable percentage increase. Presuming much of the “refugee” population to be functionally unemployable, Lebanon is staring into the gaping maw of a huge financial burden. It’s also worth pointing out that the population of Lebanon is a volatile mix of ethnic and religious clans. They don’t always play nice with each other. A sizeable population change that adds a half-milllion Arabs to the mix won’t sit well with with either the Christian minority or the Iranian Shia backed Hezbollah military. 

Yet it's been observed many times, by many commentators:

§  That the Islamic states refuse to accept “Palestinian refugees”;

§  That Israel's succor toward the Palestinians exceeds that of all the world's Islamic states put together;

§  That Moslems in Israel proper enjoy far more rights, better protected, than the residents of the Palestinian internment camps;

§  And, despite the above, that the Islamic states of the Middle East have made it mortally dangerous to be a Jew anywhere in that region _except_ Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I do not understand why...   The Arab Palestinians are refugees, in Lebanon, in part and on account of Lebanon's participation in various acts of aggression against Israel by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> TRUNCATED • Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid*
> apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon.
> •  legal prohibitions persist on access for Palestinian refugees to 36 liberal or syndicated professions (including in medicine, farming, fishery, and public transportation)...
> 
> •  In order to work, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are required to obtain an annual work permit.
> 
> •  prevented from legal acquiring, transferring or inheriting real property in Lebanon."
> 
> • do not have access to Lebanese public health services and rely mostly on UNRWA for health service
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT - QUESTIONS)*
> 
> The question is → why_?_
> 
> These restrict sound more like measures to protect economic concerns and employment positions.
> 
> Today's unemployment rate is about  6.7%.
> 
> View attachment 236395​Lebanon has a balanced national healt care system.
> 
> View attachment 236401​There appears to be at a point that it could push it into a change in financially ineffective medical care.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinians are not citizens of Lebanon. Palestinians have no passports or other travel documents. They are just stuck there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> I do not understand why...   The Arab Palestinians are refugees, in Lebanon, in part and on account of Lebanon's participation in various acts of aggression against Israel by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> TRUNCATED • Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid*
> apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon.
> •  legal prohibitions persist on access for Palestinian refugees to 36 liberal or syndicated professions (including in medicine, farming, fishery, and public transportation)...
> 
> •  In order to work, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are required to obtain an annual work permit.
> 
> •  prevented from legal acquiring, transferring or inheriting real property in Lebanon."
> 
> • do not have access to Lebanese public health services and rely mostly on UNRWA for health service
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT - QUESTIONS)*
> 
> The question is → why_?_
> 
> These restrict sound more like measures to protect economic concerns and employment positions.
> 
> Today's unemployment rate is about  6.7%.
> 
> View attachment 236395​Lebanon has a balanced national healt care system.
> 
> View attachment 236401​There appears to be at a point that it could push it into a change in financially ineffective medical care.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are not citizens of Lebanon. Palestinians have no passports or other travel documents. They are just stuck there.
Click to expand...


The Iranian mullocrats laugh at Arabs.


----------



## ding

I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.


----------



## ding

Karl is starting to make a lot of sense. 



Karl Rand said:


> Given the Israeli Gov’t has a active program supporting academic falsification of archeological ‘discoveries’ it’s almost impossible to separate ancient myth from recent claims.
> We may also want to ask why the re-establishment of the temple and/or the ‘renewal of it’s covenant with God' (whatever that may mean) would justify the forced takeover of Palestine.


----------



## ding

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...

I’ve experienced their anti-Christianity venom first hand.  It was totally unprovoked too. 

You might be right about them.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  ding,

And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.



ding said:


> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...

Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
R


----------



## Mindful

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
Click to expand...


Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
Click to expand...

The behaviors I am personally witnessing on these boards.


----------



## ding

Mindful said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?
Click to expand...

Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.


----------



## Mindful

ding said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.
Click to expand...


Keep up with your five a day, dear.


----------



## ding

Mindful said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep up with your five a day, dear.
Click to expand...

And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.


----------



## Mindful

ding said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep up with your five a day, dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.
Click to expand...


Can you recommend one?


----------



## ding

Mindful said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep up with your five a day, dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you recommend one?
Click to expand...

If you believe it is working for you don’t change.


----------



## Mindful

ding said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ding's not argumentative. Who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep up with your five a day, dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you recommend one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you believe it is working for you don’t change.
Click to expand...


As clear as mud.


----------



## ding

Mindful said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I’m not. I can be most pleasant to converse with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep up with your five a day, dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you recommend one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you believe it is working for you don’t change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As clear as mud.
Click to expand...

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.


----------



## Mindful

ding said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep up with your five a day, dear.
> 
> 
> 
> And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you recommend one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you believe it is working for you don’t change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As clear as mud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.
Click to expand...


And then what do we do?

Unless we are meant to be this way. Predestination.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ramallah has suddenly reverted to a terrorist agenda. Hamas has raised its flag in the capital of the Palestinian Authority.

There, in that city of spacious homes, which in recent years has attracted banks and business centers and international organizations and embassies, and where accelerated development has resulted in hundreds of high-rise buildings springing up, Hamas is sticking it to PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

Ramallah and the villages around it, which function as the political and economic center of the PA, strongly identified with the Palestinian elite and wanted cooperation with Israel. This week, they became the site of a hunt for the terrorists who carried out the shooting attacks in Ofra and Givat Asaf. The raids, the encirclement, the capture of homes and the shots fired at protesters – all in the beating heart of the PA, which this week resumed full security coordination with Israel – are the last thing the ailing Abbas needs.

In the middle of all this, between the Jewish settlements Halamish, Nachliel and Atarot, lies the village of Kaubar, a hamlet that raises murderers. Kaubar illustrates how shaky Abbas' stature has become in the region where his own capital lies.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/12/21/hamas-too-close-for-abbas-comfort/


----------



## Sixties Fan

As with most of these work accidents, the most significant part is not the accident itself. It’s how and where it took place.

In this case, the Hamas tunnel engineer was working underneath his own home, turning the civilian structure into a military purpose. That is something we see throughout Gaza, where Hamas hides among and underneath civilian structures, using civilians as human shields.

(full article online)

Hamas tunnel engineer "working on a tunnel underneath his home when it collapsed and killed him"


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  ding, et al,

With the exception of a few, this topic and this discussion group _(active members)_ are very passionate about their position.  It is good _(very good)_ that you question the topic (both sides) and come to your conclusion; NOT on the sharp argumentative and non-contributory view; but, sift through the commentary and dig out the pieces that give a better picture, a useful picture. 

But don't base your views on the completion of this discussion group.  The sample size is just too small and the passions too high, to get a valid impression. 



ding said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The behaviors I am personally witnessing on these boards.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Probably, our best contributor to this discussion group is "Coyote."  Coyote is level-headed and yet is able to dive-in and question both assumptions and the perception of events that give the group the glue and bond.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ding

Mindful said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you should keep replaying the movie in your head, my dear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you recommend one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you believe it is working for you don’t change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As clear as mud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And then what do we do?
> 
> Unless we are meant to be this way. Predestination.
Click to expand...

That would be up to each person.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A flyer featuring a burning Christmas tree and threats in Arabic forbidding the celebration of Christmas was published by the Al-Nasser Salah al-Deen Brigades, also known as the Specialty Brigade, in Gaza ahead of the Christian holiday.

A verse from the Quran, quoted on the left side of the flyer, warns Muslims “not to go the way of the Jews and the Christians, indeed God is not for the evil people.” The brigades added that it is “absolutely forbidden” to celebrate the holidays in any capacity.

(full article online)

Gaza terrorists warn locals: 'Celebrating Christmas is evil'


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding, et al,
> 
> With the exception of a few, this topic and this discussion group _(active members)_ are very passionate about their position.  It is good _(very good)_ that you question the topic (both sides) and come to your conclusion; NOT on the sharp argumentative and non-contributory view; but, sift through the commentary and dig out the pieces that give a better picture, a useful picture.
> 
> But don't base your views on the completion of this discussion group.  The sample size is just too small and the passions too high, to get a valid impression.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→  ding,
> 
> And why?  What makes you feel this sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m starting to become sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm serious.  This is a serious question _(not argumentative)_...
> 
> Most Respectfully and Seasons Greetings to All,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The behaviors I am personally witnessing on these boards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Probably, our best contributor to this discussion group is "Coyote."  Coyote is level-headed and yet is able to dive-in and question both assumptions and the perception of events that give the group the glue and bond.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I have a very favorable opinion of Coyote, while we have not always agreed, she has always been respectful.  She seems very objective and articulates her positions well.  She is thoughtful in her positions.  She does her parents proud.


----------



## ding

Hollie on the other hand.  SMH.


----------



## Hollie

If we all say “Peace Partners” while tapping the heels on our ruby slippers...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza residents received a special holiday greeting this week, just in case they didn’t realize ‘tis the season to be jolly.

A threatening flyer featuring a Quranic verse warning Muslims “not to go the way of the Jews and the Christians, indeed God is not for the evil people,” and that it is “absolutely forbidden to celebrate Christmas” in way, shape or form, was distributed to citizens ahead of the holiday.

On the flyer, reportedly aimed at the 1,000 Arab Christians living in Gaza as well as at Muslims, was a burning Christmas tree.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...slamists-dont-celebrate-christmas/2018/12/24/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Terrorists hurl firebombs at Israeli bus south of J'lem


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Fedayeen" is the Arabic word for commandos, and that is the name that was used for the terrorists who infiltrated Israel in the 1950s as well as the Palestinian terrorists who hijacked airplanes and terrorized the West in the 1970s. For example, this article refers to the 1972 Munich Olympic terrorists as "fedayeen."

When Palestinians are looking for heroes to associate with their sports teams, they choose terrorists.

(full article online)

Palestinians refer to their football team as "Fedayeen" - after the terrorists of the 1970s ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I suppose if Arabs-Moslems are going to carry on with invention of their history, they might as well make it a full-blown, across the board fabrication.

*
Christmas is a "Palestinian symbol" and "Jesus was the first Palestinian," says senior Fatah leader - PMW Bulletins

"Christmas is one of the Palestinian symbols"*
*"Jesus was the first Palestinian,"*
*says senior Fatah leader*

By Itamar Marcus

Christmas is a "Palestinian symbol" and "Jesus was the first Palestinian," says senior Fatah leader - PMW Bulletins

For years, the Palestinian Authority and Fatah have presented Jesus as a Palestinian, as part of its fabricating an ancient Palestinian history.

This year was no exception. On the occasion of Christmas, a top Fatah official spoke of Jesus as "the first Palestinian" and "'Christmas is one of the permanent Palestinian symbols."

In their historical revision, the PA and Fatah ignore that Jesus was a Jew ("Judean") according to Christian tradition and that the Roman Empire changed the name of the land Judea into "Palestine" only a hundred years after Jesus lived. In spite of the dishonesty, senior PA and Fatah leaders have consistently presented Jesus and his mother Mary as Palestinians and Jesus as "the first Palestinian Martyr," and the first Palestinian refugee, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. 

The following is a statement from PLO Executive Committee member and Fatah Central Committee member Azzam Al-Ahmad yesterday at Khan Al-Ahmar, a site where Palestinian Bedouins have illegally erected buildings and dwellings. 

"The lighting of the Christmas tree each year has many meanings in Palestine... Christmas is one of the permanent Palestinian symbols, and the whole world follows Mass in Bethlehem...
The children of Khan Al-Ahmar are happy about the lighting of this tree, as it is the symbol of the first Palestinian, Jesus, peace be upon him. We, the members of the Palestinian people, are celebrating Christmas together with everyone in the land of Palestine...'

The same false claims about Jesus were repeated by Secretary-General of the National Initiative [and PA Parliament member] Mustafa Barghouti:

"Jesus, who was born on this land, was a Palestinian and defeated his suffering."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 20, 2018]


----------



## Sixties Fan

St. Nicholas/Santa uses "peace doves" to deliver presents over the barbed wire that supposedly separates Palestinians from the rest of the world, according to this highly offensive piece of propaganda disguised as innocent holiday greetings.

(full article online)

Palestine mission to Netherlands sends Christmas message showing children getting gifts over barbed wire ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> St. Nicholas/Santa uses "peace doves" to deliver presents over the barbed wire that supposedly separates Palestinians from the rest of the world, according to this highly offensive piece of propaganda disguised as innocent holiday greetings.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestine mission to Netherlands sends Christmas message showing children getting gifts over barbed wire ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



It's all happy-fun Islam when Arabs-Moslems are getting gifts from the kuffar St. Nick.



Somebody missed the email.

Palestinian Officials Turn Off Christmas Trees, Cancel Holiday Event over Trump Jerusalem Recognition


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLC is dominated by Hamas, who won more seats than Fatah in the only parliamentary election ever held in the territories. While it hasn't met since 2006, it still has one meaningful function in Palestinian law: If Abbas dies, the Palestinian Basic Law says that the speaker of the PLC becomes acting prime minister, and that is a Hamas member. So Abbas has incentive to ensure that Fatah remains in control should he expire.
-------------

In early December, Abbas vowed to dissolve the PLC "in a legal way." It is unclear if there is any legal way to do so under the Palestinian Basic Law.

But now Abbas has declared that the Palestinian Constitutional Court has indeed dissolved the PLC, just like he wanted.

The Court does not have a webpage. It has a Facebook page that doesn't mention any such decision, or indeed any of its decisions. From that page it appears that members of the court travel to other Islamic countries to conferences on constitutional law - and do little else.

But the Palestinian Constitutional Court, although mentioned in the 2003 Basic Law, was not set up until 2016. 

And guess who handpicked all members of the court? Mahmoud Abbas!

(full article online)

Dictator Mahmoud Abbas also controls the court system that just consolidated his power even more ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

As far as Abbas and other Palestinians are concerned, Israel's security measures in response to terrorist attacks are also a "crime." In other words, they are saying that Israel does not have the right to conduct hot pursuit after terrorists hiding in Palestinian cities or refugee camps.


When it comes to the actions of the Palestinian leaders themselves, however, they see utter innocence. For them, the daily incitement against Israel and Jews is not a "crime." For them, the glorification of terrorists and paying salaries to their families is not a "crime." For them, the shooting of a pregnant woman at a bus stop is not a "crime."


Such messages are driving Palestinians into the open arms of Hamas. If you are telling your people that Israel and the Jews are criminals, and that anyone who does business with them or visits them is guilty of a "crime," you are telling them that Hamas has got it right: Palestinians should be seeking the destruction of Israel, not peace with it.
(full article online)

Palestinians: The Real "Crimes"


----------



## Hollie

*Literally, billions of dollars wasted on Islamist mini-caliphates. 





*


----------



## Sixties Fan

The moralists couldn't be more wrong. The Palestinians are contemptuous of the stupidity and naiveté of the Left and see these as an asymmetry that holds their salvation, not to mention a weakness and an Achilles' heel via which they can strike at our people. They have grown up in a society in which the tribal code leaves no room for the weak and thinks nothing of the individual other than as a part of a stampeding herd of a collective. Indeed, in Arab society, the individual is valued only when he or she is attacked by someone from the outside, which means that the tribe's collective deterrence has been attacked and it is under threat. In response, tribe members will take vengeance on individuals from the attacker's side.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/understanding-local-tribal-code/


----------



## Mindful

*Critics*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
*

*Palestinians: Silencing and Intimidating Critics*


Palestinian columnist Sami Fuda denounced the Hamas crackdown on its critics in Gaza: "Apparently, freedom of expression is unacceptable to the de facto rulers of the Gaza Strip... The policy of intimidating and imprisoning writers will not deter them and is completely ineffective and unacceptable."


While these few Palestinians have expressed concern over Hamas's effort to silence its critics, international human rights organizations, including some that operate in the Gaza Strip, continue to turn a blind eye to this assault on public freedoms. They are either afraid of Hamas, or they do not give a damn about human rights violations unless they can find a way of pointing an accusatory finger at Israel.


Hamas is prepared to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a rally marking the 31st anniversary of its founding, but says it cannot afford to provide financial aid to impoverished Palestinians. Meanwhile, any Palestinians who dare to ask Hamas the wrong questions will find themselves behind bars.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab nations have been reneging on pledges to the Palestinians for many years now. They attend summits where they promise their full support and then usually do not follow through. Yet the conferences still happen - Hamdallah presided over one today, called the "Jerusalem Victory Conference," in Ramallah.

Absurdly, Hamdallah also claimed that there were no sanctions by the PA against Gaza. Since April 2017, the PA has limited salaries, fuel, medicines and many other items, all of which are well documented. Even Hamdallah admitted to these moves in August but he denied that they were sanctions even then, calling them "temporary measures." (Abbas gave a speech in March where he said he would increase "financial measures" against Gaza.)

(full article online)

Palestinian PM: Arab countries reneging on their promises to give us money ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

I cannot hardly type this response for the big floppy tears in my eyes.



Sixties Fan said:


> Arab nations have been reneging on pledges to the Palestinians for many years now. They attend summits where they promise their full support and then usually do not follow through. Yet the conferences still happen - Hamdallah presided over one today, called the "Jerusalem Victory Conference," in Ramallah.
> 
> Absurdly, Hamdallah also claimed that there were no sanctions by the PA against Gaza. Since April 2017, the PA has limited salaries, fuel, medicines and many other items, all of which are well documented. Even Hamdallah admitted to these moves in August but he denied that they were sanctions even then, calling them "temporary measures." (Abbas gave a speech in March where he said he would increase "financial measures" against Gaza.)
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian PM: Arab countries reneging on their promises to give us money ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

This story and the tragedy is just breaking my damn heart*!   *_Now, where did I put those nitro-tablets_*?*
I'm going to need them just any second now...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry explained, “We have made it clear to the Palestinian Mission that we need clarification on the Facebook post, and the glorification of terrorism and a glorification of Lufthansa kidnapper Leila Khaled are completely unacceptable.”

The rebuke of the Palestinian Mission came after Filipp Piatov, a reporter for the newspaper Bild, reported on the post praising Khaled.

Khaled was a member of a PFLP cell that hijacked TWA flight 840 in August 1969. She also participated in the attempted hijacking of an El Al flight a year later.

The rebuke issued by Foreign Ministry came just days after Germany decided to stop funding foreign organizations that promote anti-Semitism.

The PFLP has been designated as a terrorist organization by both the United States and the European Union.

In November of last year, Khaled, currently, a resident of Jordan, was barred from entering Italy due to an invalid visa, even though other European nations, including Germany, allowed her to enter. Khaled frequently travels advocating boycotts of Israel.

Khaled has been quoted as saying that for Palestinians, “negotiations will be held only with knives and weapons.”

(full article online)

Palestinian Mission Takes Down Pro-Terror Post After Rebuke from Germany's Foreign Ministry


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the most distressing and depressing aspects of how the Abbas and Hamas regimes weaponize their Palestinian Arab society's children is in how they educate them.

The evidence for the open and callous manipulation of their children's minds and futures has been out there for anyone concerned with the truth to absorb. Yet its corrosiveness goes on. And no less disturbing, it continues in large measure to be funded by non-Arab states in the name of "helping".

We're reposting here an article written by Arnold Roth for the Wall Street Journal back in September 2003 - more than a decade and a half ago.

Readers paying attention will see that, while some things have changed _somewhat_, others remain just as rotten as they were back then.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 27-Dec-18: What's changed these past 15 years with the maleducation in Palestinian Arabs schools?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pallywood Rears Its Ugly Head Again


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

In a Region of the World, where Radical Islamic Fundamentalism and Resistance has been repackaged and rebranded as freedom fighting in the name of self-determination and destiny for the people's sovereignty,  → I have to wonder why this event is so very strange.  After all, it is just supernatural powers of a higher authority _(PBUH or whoever it is)_ that magically made miraculous transport happen.



Sixties Fan said:


> Pallywood Rears Its Ugly Head Again


*(COMMENT)*

It is all about the Prime Directive and evidence of a transporter being used.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

I’m trying to come up with some ideas as to how the planet can better accommodate Islamic fascists. 

Maybe pointing and laughing is enough.


"Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar: U.S. Embassy Is Unacceptable in West Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv, or Even in Safed" 

Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar said in a December 23, 2018, interview on Al-Alam TV (Iran) that Iran does not ask anything in return for the aid it provides to Hamas. He added that the presence of an American embassy in Palestine is totally unacceptable, even if it were built in Safed or suspended above Palestine, and that Western Jerusalem is even more Arab than Eastern Jerusalem. He added that Israel was established by the West in order to get rid of the Zionist cancer that was ruining the Western economy.



“....Iran does not ask anything in return for the aid it provides to Hamas.”

Mahmoud, the useful idiot for the Iranian Mullocrats, will gladly accept Iranian welfare money if it finances the Hamas terrorist infrastructure. The Iranian Mullocrats must be like giddy schoolgirls having an upper hand with their newfound Sunni errand boys.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al_,

I think you are on the right track.  



Hollie said:


> “....Iran does not ask anything in return for the aid it provides to Hamas.”
> 
> Mahmoud, the useful idiot for the Iranian Mullocrats, will gladly accept Iranian welfare money if it finances the Hamas terrorist infrastructure. The Iranian Mullocrats must be like giddy schoolgirls having an upper hand with their newfound Sunni errand boys.


*(COMMENT)*

When I was young, local drug dealers were known to give "free samples" of "crack" _(and other such drugs that induce euphoria)_ in order to establish a dependence on the drug by the users.  The Arab Palestinians are beginning the dance with the devil.  This idea that the young Arab Palestinians are heroic freedom fighters in the service of their emerging nation is an experience of pleasure and excitement.  They gradually build an intense feeling of well-being, happiness and social status which is based on the concepts that the involvement violent acts that are a depraved indifference and dangerous to human life, to intimidate or coerce the Israeli civilian population, and to influence the policy of the State of Israel by intimidation or coercion; is legal and morally correct.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian Arab Bethlehem is at war with Christians and Jews*

When Bethlehem was turned over to the Palestinian Authority, the number of Christians soon plummeted from being 80 percent of the population in 1995. Now it is just 20 percent. What happened?

Palestinian Arab Bethlehem is at war with Christians and Jews

What does the story of Bethlehem tell us today? Two things.

Under the control of Israel (1967-1995), the Christian population of Bethlehem grew by 57 percent. When Israel delivered the city of Jesus to the Palestinian Authority in 1995, Bethlehem had an 80 percent Christian population. Now it is just 20 percent.


----------



## Hollie

In this episode of _Islam’s_ _Most_ _Gifted™️, _we’re treated to a deep, philosophical discussion of the public relations implications regarding dead Hamas terrorists at the border gee-had.

We’re also reminded that _MEMRI_ _monitors_ _everything™️
_
Yes. Arabs-Moslems should be aware that _The_ _Zionists_™️ employ their Super-Zio powers to monitor Arabs-Moslems.





"Palestinian Author Mushir Al-Farra: MEMRI Monitors Everything; We Should Stay Away from the Word "Jew," Talk about "Zionists" Instead"

During a December 23, 2018 interview on Baladna TV (Gaza), Palestinian author Mushir Al-Farra said that the Palestinians should be more cautious while representing their cause on media outlets in order to avoid speaking in a way that weakens it. He gave the several examples of statements made by Palestinian media figures or Hamas representatives that Israeli officials that played into the hand of Israel. One example is a statement by Salah Bardawil from Hamas in May 2018. Bardawil said that almost all the people killed during the "Return March" clashes were Hamas members. Al-Farra said that "MEMRI monitors everything," and hat Al-Bardawil's statement was "a big mistake," which caused "great harm to our public relations." (see Al-Bardawil's remarks here: Hamas Political Bureau Member Salah Al-Bardawil: 50 of the Martyrs Killed in Gaza were from Hamas, 12 Regular People)


----------



## Sixties Fan

It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women, says Abbas` advisor




 



Contradictory messages are an art in the Palestinian Authority. A striking example was when right in the middle of a PA campaign to stop domestic violence against Palestinian women, Abbas' advisor and top PA religious figure explained on TV exactly when, how and why husbands, fathers and brothers are allowed to beat women!

*The following are examples of Abbas' advisor *
*completely negating the positive anti-violence messages:*


*Abbas's Advisor Al-Habbash* *PA TV public service campaign*

[Official PA TV, _Horizons_, Dec. 1, 2018]
[Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Dec. 9, 2018]

*"'Admonish them,' it can be the husband, the father, the brother... 'And beat them' - this too is not necessarily especially for the husband."*





*"No to violence against women"
"Why Islam permitted a man to hit and not a woman: Look, the woman is more sensitive ... the woman can be affected [to change] by anything."*




*"There is no authority that gives men the right to attack women"*

(full article online)

It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women, says Abbas` advisor - PMW Bulletins


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→* Sixties Fan*, _et al_,

I didn't stay married to my 19 y/o Wife for forty years, and not learn something; although she would say I was a slow learner. _(She is always right.)_



Sixties Fan said:


> It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women, says Abbas` advisor
> [quote="Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Dec. 9, 2018]
> "'Admonish them,' it can be the husband, the father, the brother... 'And beat them' - this too is not necessarily especially for the husband."


[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

Throughout the world, you are going to run into cultures and people which have never socially evolved past the 
Neolithic characteristics.

While some anthropologist claim the Neolithic period ended more than a thousand years _(some say 2000)_ BCE, it appears that Official PA TV has captured one of the species on video.   We should mount an expedition to go out there and capture this one, and put it on exhibition in Cairo; along with Tutankhamun.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas arrests dozens of Fatah members


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA court sentences Palestinian-American to life for attempting land sale to Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

In the Apartheid-minded mini caliphate of Abbas’istan, the egregious error of selling land to a Jew can get you life in prison with hard labor. It may actually get you worse if the wrong Islamists get their hands on you. 

Although, is life in prison with hard labor materially different than living in any of the Islamic backwaters that are so common in the alternate reality of Islamism?


*The PA's Apartheid land laws*

*The PA’s Apartheid land laws - PMW Bulletins*


*American-Palestinian sentenced to life imprisonment with hard labor for selling land to Jews. *

*In 2014, Mahmoud Abbas passed legislation raising the punishment for selling land to Jews to life imprisonment with hard labor.
*
*64.4% of Palestinians support the death sentence for selling land to Jews *
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv.

An American-Palestinian, Isaam Akel, was convicted of selling land in East Jerusalem to Jews and sentenced to life imprisonment with hard labor by a Palestinian court: 

"In accordance with the instructions of clause 2/274 of the [PA] criminal procedures law, the [PA] Grand Criminal Court, which convened in Ramallah, convicted the accused I.A. on the charges attributed to him - an attempt to cut off part of the Palestinian territories and annex them to a foreign state [as described in] Penal Code Number 16 of 1960. Relying on the conviction and in accordance with the instructions of clause 2 of Decision with Legislative Force Number 20 of 2014, the court sentenced him to life with hard labor.

The lawsuit was submitted to the court on Dec. 23, 2018, and the verdict was given approximately a week later."
[WAFA, official PA news agency, Dec. 31, 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

Some say that after the Oslo Accords, armed struggle abandoned. However, particularly after the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian resistance, led by Fatah, was set free. In the years of the Intifada, between the years 2000 and 2005, it was set free in a way that was unprecedented in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The fiercest battles between Fatah and Israel took place after the Oslo Accords, not before them. I am referring to the years 2000-2005. This means that that negotiations that ended in failure in Camp David brought about armed resistance by Fatah with a ferocity that had not been seen before the Oslo Accords.

(video online)

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah brags about its terrorism increasing after Oslo ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ 1954.  I wonder what made the Arabs found this group.  Not during the Crusades. And not during the Ottoman Empire.  And not during the Mandate for Palestine. ]

Fatah was founded in 1954, but no one celebrates the anniversary of its founding.

Instead, Fatah celebrates the anniversary of the first terror attack it mounted against Israel, on January 1 (some say the 3rd,) 1965.

The terror group attempted to bomb Israel's National Water Carrier. Meaning, their very first act was to deprive Israelis of water.

And this is what is being celebrated today.









Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah celebrates 54th anniversary of first terror attack ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslims Desecrate the Temple Mount with Snowball Fights


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


The PA is a bantustan government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
Click to expand...


Indeed, silly slogans aren't really useful. Hamas and the PA are indeed pretty typical islamic dictatorships. 

And Allah is the best of planners.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,

*BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE NOTE)*

Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years

✦  Male: 72.54 years
✦  Female: 76.65​
Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)

✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.

*(COMMENT)*

Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.

✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

"UNRWA was established in 1949, started operating in 1950, and in 1960 declared that its work was done. But then, under pressure from Arab countries, it was decided to extend its mandate. It's a unique organization because there is a high commission in the U.N. that deals with refugees from all over the world, and a special authority established to handle only the Palestinian issue. On the other hand, no one established any agency for Jewish refugees in Israel.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/10/19/the-deal-that-disappeared/


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Maybe some rather ominous potentials for Hamas and Fatah. With no clear dictator to pick up the gee-had banner for either of the rival enclaves, the first dictator out (Abbas?) could lead to a power struggle within Fatah. That would be an opportunity for Iran to convince Hamas of an end to the Hudna that has kept those angry fellows from each orthers throats. A very nasty civil war could put these three groups into a winner takes all slugfest.

With millions upon millions of UNRWA welfare dollars at stake, there are still fortunes to be made and lost for the enterprising, up and coming Islamic dictator.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [ 1954.  I wonder what made the Arabs found this group.  Not during the Crusades. And not during the Ottoman Empire.  And not during the Mandate for Palestine. ]
> 
> Fatah was founded in 1954, but no one celebrates the anniversary of its founding.
> 
> Instead, Fatah celebrates the anniversary of the first terror attack it mounted against Israel, on January 1 (some say the 3rd,) 1965.
> 
> The terror group attempted to bomb Israel's National Water Carrier. Meaning, their very first act was to deprive Israelis of water.
> 
> And this is what is being celebrated today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah celebrates 54th anniversary of first terror attack ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Brave Islamic terrorists sure like those teenage girls..... as cover.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.

I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:

*Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.






Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia

BTW, The Palestinian National Initiative party does not have a military wing and does not have a terrorist designation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> BTW, The Palestinian National Initiative party does not have a military wing and does not have a terrorist designation.
Click to expand...


So, basically, Barghouti has been a part of most every phony “Pal’istanian” fraud representing itself as a legislative body.

You want the Islamic terrorist dictatorship to continue.

Super!


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
Click to expand...

While he was at Maqased, he and "five or six" medical colleagues founded Medical Relief (MR), a volunteer organization that has developed into "a whole network of primary health-care centres, mobile clinics and outreach programmes." By 1986, "there were MR committees all over the Occupied Territories, including Gaza."[2]

Barghouti is the President of the Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees, an NGO that provides health and community services to people in the Occupied Territories. He is also Director of the Health Development Information and Policy Institute, an independent Ramallah-based think-tank that engages in policy research and planning for the Palestinian health-care system in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While he was at Maqased, he and "five or six" medical colleagues founded Medical Relief (MR), a volunteer organization that has developed into "a whole network of primary health-care centres, mobile clinics and outreach programmes." By 1986, "there were MR committees all over the Occupied Territories, including Gaza."[2]
> 
> Barghouti is the President of the Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees, an NGO that provides health and community services to people in the Occupied Territories. He is also Director of the Health Development Information and Policy Institute, an independent Ramallah-based think-tank that engages in policy research and planning for the Palestinian health-care system in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]
Click to expand...


.....not to mention his Jew killing proclivities, but:


*'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel

'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel

Palestinian parliament member Mustafa Barghouti staunchly defended Palestinian jihadists who attack Israel.

Leland Vittert asked Barghouti how the Palestinians could be considered an honest partner in the regional peace process when it memorializes terrorists.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While he was at Maqased, he and "five or six" medical colleagues founded Medical Relief (MR), a volunteer organization that has developed into "a whole network of primary health-care centres, mobile clinics and outreach programmes." By 1986, "there were MR committees all over the Occupied Territories, including Gaza."[2]
> 
> Barghouti is the President of the Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees, an NGO that provides health and community services to people in the Occupied Territories. He is also Director of the Health Development Information and Policy Institute, an independent Ramallah-based think-tank that engages in policy research and planning for the Palestinian health-care system in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....not to mention his Jew killing proclivities, but:
> 
> 
> *'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel
> 
> 'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel
> 
> Palestinian parliament member Mustafa Barghouti staunchly defended Palestinian jihadists who attack Israel.
> 
> Leland Vittert asked Barghouti how the Palestinians could be considered an honest partner in the regional peace process when it memorializes terrorists.*
Click to expand...

It is interesting that all TV hosts are armed with a list of Israeli talking points. Who passes out those lists?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While he was at Maqased, he and "five or six" medical colleagues founded Medical Relief (MR), a volunteer organization that has developed into "a whole network of primary health-care centres, mobile clinics and outreach programmes." By 1986, "there were MR committees all over the Occupied Territories, including Gaza."[2]
> 
> Barghouti is the President of the Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees, an NGO that provides health and community services to people in the Occupied Territories. He is also Director of the Health Development Information and Policy Institute, an independent Ramallah-based think-tank that engages in policy research and planning for the Palestinian health-care system in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....not to mention his Jew killing proclivities, but:
> 
> 
> *'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel
> 
> 'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel
> 
> Palestinian parliament member Mustafa Barghouti staunchly defended Palestinian jihadists who attack Israel.
> 
> Leland Vittert asked Barghouti how the Palestinians could be considered an honest partner in the regional peace process when it memorializes terrorists.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that all TV hosts are armed with a list of Israeli talking points. Who passes out those lists?
Click to expand...


Indeed, it’s interesting that Barghouti is little more than Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in a suit.

Indeed, from the earlier link: 
Barghouti said they are freedom fighters working "peacefully and politically" for the people.

He said that complaining about the Palestinian government's support of the fighters is Israel's way to distract from issues like its alleged "occupation" of their land.


Indeed, all the usual appeals to “peaceful” Islamic savages. 

Strange indeed, your hero worship of just another Islamic terrorist.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just How Do You Measure The Level Of Democracy In A Terrorist State? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While he was at Maqased, he and "five or six" medical colleagues founded Medical Relief (MR), a volunteer organization that has developed into "a whole network of primary health-care centres, mobile clinics and outreach programmes." By 1986, "there were MR committees all over the Occupied Territories, including Gaza."[2]
> 
> Barghouti is the President of the Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees, an NGO that provides health and community services to people in the Occupied Territories. He is also Director of the Health Development Information and Policy Institute, an independent Ramallah-based think-tank that engages in policy research and planning for the Palestinian health-care system in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]
Click to expand...


Was this meant to be a joke, I meant a real hospital.
Give me someone who really has the qualifications to run a state, not an anchor for a health TV show.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, _et al_,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well before 2030 _(about a decade from now)_, most of the "Old Guard" of Fatah, Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) and other lesser groups, will have dissolved _(if not already faded away)_ and either become only of a historical threat; or evolved into evolved into something altogether different _(if not already)_.
> 
> *(REFERENCE NOTE)*
> 
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the West Bank is: 74.54 years
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.54 years
> ✦  Female: 76.65​
> Life expectancy at birth: for the total population in the Gaza Strip is: 74.4 years (2018 est.)
> 
> ✦  Male: 72.7 years (2018 est.)
> ✦  Female: 76.2 years (2018 est.)​✪  Data from CIA Factbooks.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just as the Mahmoud Abbas _(President of the Palestinian Authority)_ is already past 80 years of age.
> 
> ✦ Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh is over 55 and just assumed the position from Khaled Mashal age 62.
> ✦ The Palestine Islamic Jihad Leader is Ramadan Shalah; is now age 60.
> ✦ Ahmad Sa’adat, the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 65 years old.
> ✦ Nayef Hawatmeh is the President of  the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine; and is 80 years old.​
> The leadership positions will soon change.  And with that change we do not know yet what changes in Arab Palestinian Policies these new leaders (yet to be determined) will have on the survival of the respective organizations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is about 85 now. The Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. All of his old cronies should leave too. They are all leaders of the past.
> 
> I cant think of many people who would be a good president. Here is one I have been looking at:
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti* (born 1 January 1954) is a Palestinian physician, activist, and politician who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), also known as al Mubadara. He has been a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council since 2006 and is also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Central Council. In 2007, Barghouti was Minister of Information in the Palestinian unity government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Barghouti - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While he was at Maqased, he and "five or six" medical colleagues founded Medical Relief (MR), a volunteer organization that has developed into "a whole network of primary health-care centres, mobile clinics and outreach programmes." By 1986, "there were MR committees all over the Occupied Territories, including Gaza."[2]
> 
> Barghouti is the President of the Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees, an NGO that provides health and community services to people in the Occupied Territories. He is also Director of the Health Development Information and Policy Institute, an independent Ramallah-based think-tank that engages in policy research and planning for the Palestinian health-care system in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....not to mention his Jew killing proclivities, but:
> 
> 
> *'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel
> 
> 'They're Not Terrorists': Palestinian Lawmaker Defends Attacks on Israel
> 
> Palestinian parliament member Mustafa Barghouti staunchly defended Palestinian jihadists who attack Israel.
> 
> Leland Vittert asked Barghouti how the Palestinians could be considered an honest partner in the regional peace process when it memorializes terrorists.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that all TV hosts are armed with a list of Israeli talking points. Who passes out those lists?
Click to expand...

Probably Your department of foreign affairs.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,

Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...



rylah said:


> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...


*(COMMENT)*

I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.

But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.
> 
> But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Even if they copy those components, someone has to actually run the country.
I never get a serious response to this question,at least Arafat had a degree in civil engineering..not that he actually used it, but it's already something.

Seems like Palestinians key politicians are the same bourgeoisie families that used to sell land to Jews and incite their people to kill anyone who does it at the same time. They were never serious about anything but  keeping the upper social status that they held under the Ottoman rule.

I think this is one of the main problems among Palestinians - the structure of family rule in politics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.
> 
> But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if they copy those components, someone has to actually run the country.
> I never get a serious response to this question,at least Arafat had a degree in civil engineering..not that he actually used it, but it's already something.
> 
> Seems like Palestinians key politicians are the same bourgeoisie families that used to sell land to Jews and incite their people to kill anyone who does it at the same time. They were never serious about anything but  keeping the upper social status that they held under the Ottoman rule.
> 
> I think this is one of the main problems among Palestinians - the structure of family rule in politics.
Click to expand...

Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.
> 
> But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if they copy those components, someone has to actually run the country.
> I never get a serious response to this question,at least Arafat had a degree in civil engineering..not that he actually used it, but it's already something.
> 
> Seems like Palestinians key politicians are the same bourgeoisie families that used to sell land to Jews and incite their people to kill anyone who does it at the same time. They were never serious about anything but  keeping the upper social status that they held under the Ottoman rule.
> 
> I think this is one of the main problems among Palestinians - the structure of family rule in politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
Click to expand...


They're all the same elitist families that ruled the Arab street 100 years ago, we know about many Barghoutis who still run the show, Tamimis, Husseinis, Ja'abri...all the same families who never left the positions of power given to them by the Ottomans and Brits.

Government structure is meaningless if politics are run by family clans, family politics don't work if one wants democracy. The internal struggle is too engraved to move anything forward. It's Russia in th 90's...took them 10 years to install a capable leader not "from the family", Palestinians probably won't because they don't have the same level of military leadership, a good school of officers to keep as a backup to insane kings.

But Your nativity is cute of course.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.
> 
> But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if they copy those components, someone has to actually run the country.
> I never get a serious response to this question,at least Arafat had a degree in civil engineering..not that he actually used it, but it's already something.
> 
> Seems like Palestinians key politicians are the same bourgeoisie families that used to sell land to Jews and incite their people to kill anyone who does it at the same time. They were never serious about anything but  keeping the upper social status that they held under the Ottoman rule.
> 
> I think this is one of the main problems among Palestinians - the structure of family rule in politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
Click to expand...


There is no reason to believe an Islamic government under Barghouti would be any different than the current dysfunctional dictatorships. 

The wiki document you posted identifies Barghouti having a hand in many of the failed and/or directionless “government” entities connected to Arab-Moslem “Pal’istanians”. Barghouti was as ineffective and directionless within those welfare fraud wasting entities as the other welfare fraud recipients.


----------



## rylah

So really whom do Palestinians have for politicians today?

I know of an English literature professor and a doctor who most usually appear for western audiences,
who else, maybe someone professionally fit to run a state we don't know about?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.
> 
> But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if they copy those components, someone has to actually run the country.
> I never get a serious response to this question,at least Arafat had a degree in civil engineering..not that he actually used it, but it's already something.
> 
> Seems like Palestinians key politicians are the same bourgeoisie families that used to sell land to Jews and incite their people to kill anyone who does it at the same time. They were never serious about anything but  keeping the upper social status that they held under the Ottoman rule.
> 
> I think this is one of the main problems among Palestinians - the structure of family rule in politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no reason to believe an Islamic government under Barghouti would be any different than the current dysfunctional dictatorships.
> 
> The wiki document you posted identifies Barghouti having a hand in many of the failed and/or directionless “government” entities connected to Arab-Moslem “Pal’istanians”. Barghouti was as ineffective and directionless within those welfare fraud wasting entities as the other welfare fraud recipients.
Click to expand...


No but You don't get it,
it won't be an "Islamic state" because communists will run the Sharia courts...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Oh my, so many sour grapes.


----------



## rylah

Where is that list of new candidates?

Palestinian politics is all about elitist families, they're all the same people from the same handful of clans which the Ottomans installed as the local aristocracy.

They have no elections because there's no point once families divided the cake.
It's very similar to a feudal rule, family clans own the cities and each village is divided on these parameters, Abbas is merely a convenient scapegoat for the feudal rulers.

Last time they were allowed elections, it were the family clans that received the majority of votes,
 not political parties.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Our friend "rylah" makes a good point...
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many of those have actual credentials to run a state?
> Your link doesn't show Barghouti even ran a hospital...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suppose that the UN would, if the conditions were set → for the Arab Palestinians to be run through the establishments of self-governing institutions _(the Steps Preparatory to Independence)_.
> 
> But I don't think that the Arab Palestinians want to establish any self-governing instiutions.  It appears the Arab Palestinians have their eyes set on taking the essential components intact away from the Israelis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if they copy those components, someone has to actually run the country.
> I never get a serious response to this question,at least Arafat had a degree in civil engineering..not that he actually used it, but it's already something.
> 
> Seems like Palestinians key politicians are the same bourgeoisie families that used to sell land to Jews and incite their people to kill anyone who does it at the same time. They were never serious about anything but  keeping the upper social status that they held under the Ottoman rule.
> 
> I think this is one of the main problems among Palestinians - the structure of family rule in politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
Click to expand...


Do you? 

Let's hear it.


----------



## Mindful

I'm reminded of the al-Assad family. A clan which became prominent in government affairs, reminiscent of the House of Borgia.

With a Lady Macbeth figure (Bashar's mother) running the show from behind the scenes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,

Knowing or not Knowing the framework and structure of government is not the Issue.  It is not the issue at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.


*(COMMENT)*

We, none of use, need to know the structure of Government to be able to view and observe the outcomes and determine whether or not the Government is failing the people.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Knowing or not Knowing the framework and structure of government is not the Issue.  It is not the issue at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We, none of use, need to know the structure of Government to be able to view and observe the outcomes and determine whether or not the Government is failing the people.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


^ It is not the issue.

Sounds familiar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Knowing or not Knowing the framework and structure of government is not the Issue.  It is not the issue at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We, none of use, need to know the structure of Government to be able to view and observe the outcomes and determine whether or not the Government is failing the people.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al_,
> 
> Knowing or not Knowing the framework and structure of government is not the Issue.  It is not the issue at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice mindless rant. You don't know the structure of the government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We, none of use, need to know the structure of Government to be able to view and observe the outcomes and determine whether or not the Government is failing the people.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.
Click to expand...


Still pimping the apartheid lie.

Tell when are Arabs ever going to let Jewish parties into their parliament?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

The Arab Palestinians were always a bit melodramatic; a drama queen.

◈  The accusation that the US initiated a _coup d'etat_.
◈  The Israelis established a territory set aside for Hostile Arab Palestinians icontanment.​


P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians _(hell, everybody in the world)_ knew that at the time of the Palestinian elections, it was against both American and International Law to finance terrorism _(HAMAS being a designated terrorist organization)_.

*◈   1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism  •*
that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.

*◈  18 U.S. Code  2332d Financial Transactions*  •  knowing or having reasonable cause to know that a country  as a country supporting international terrorism, engages in a financial transaction with the government of that country.​
In other words, the Arab Palestinians intentionally voted for to install the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) • THEN tried to make it appear that the US was trying to interfere with the election.  They simply refused to accept the consequences of their acts.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult is celebrating an anniversary. 

Their past history of heinous acts of islamic terrorism, mass murder/suicide is the cause for parades and promises of more of the same. 
*

Fatah celebrates its violent past and promises a violent future

On anniversary, Fatah celebrates its violent past and promises a violent future - PMW Bulletins*

*On 54th anniversary, Fatah celebrates the rifle and violence* 







As Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrates its 54th anniversary, its dominant messages to its people are celebration of 54 years of violence together with the promise of more violence in the future. Fatah is declaring to Palestinians once again, similar to what Palestinian Media Watch documented in previous years, that Fatah has not and will never "drop the rifle" or abandon terror - what it euphemistically calls "the armed struggle." 

The image of the rifle is the main theme of this year's celebrations. In the picture above, which Fatah posted on its official Facebook page, two young girls holding assault rifles are shown leading a march of uniformed men, who are also holding assault rifles


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were always a bit melodramatic; a drama queen.
> 
> ◈  The accusation that the US initiated a _coup d'etat_.
> ◈  The Israelis established a territory set aside for Hostile Arab Palestinians icontanment.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(hell, everybody in the world)_ knew that at the time of the Palestinian elections, it was against both American and International Law to finance terrorism _(HAMAS being a designated terrorist organization)_.
> 
> *◈   1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism  •*
> that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> *◈  18 U.S. Code  2332d Financial Transactions*  •  knowing or having reasonable cause to know that a country  as a country supporting international terrorism, engages in a financial transaction with the government of that country.​
> In other words, the Arab Palestinians intentionally voted for to install the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) • THEN tried to make it appear that the US was trying to interfere with the election.  They simply refused to accept the consequences of their acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Dahlan, who had once been praised by George W Bush and was chosen by neoconservatives to lead a coup against the elected Hamas government in Gaza in 2007, seems to have finally managed to sneak his way back to Palestinian politics.

Gaza: The curse of Mohammed Dahlan

It has long been known that following Hamas’ victory in Palestinian Authority legislative elections in January 2006, Israel and its allies, particularly the United States, worked to undermine the Hamas-led government. Their aim was to restore the authority of the Fatah movement led by Mahmoud Abbas, which had controlled the PA since it was created in 1994 after the Oslo accords were signed the previous year.

In February 2007, after months of clashes between their supporters, Fatah and Hamas agreed to form a “national unity government” headed by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. Enraged by this, the US government hatched a plot, along with Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, to engage Hamas militarily in Gaza. But the plot failed and in June 2007 Hamas turned the tables and overran Dahlan’s US-supported militias.

Until now, the most comprehensive and essential account of these events was contained in David Rose’s April 2008 _Vanity Fair_ article, “The Gaza Bombshell.”

The Palestine Papers and the "Gaza coup"


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were always a bit melodramatic; a drama queen.
> 
> ◈  The accusation that the US initiated a _coup d'etat_.
> ◈  The Israelis established a territory set aside for Hostile Arab Palestinians icontanment.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(hell, everybody in the world)_ knew that at the time of the Palestinian elections, it was against both American and International Law to finance terrorism _(HAMAS being a designated terrorist organization)_.
> 
> *◈   1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism  •*
> that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> *◈  18 U.S. Code  2332d Financial Transactions*  •  knowing or having reasonable cause to know that a country  as a country supporting international terrorism, engages in a financial transaction with the government of that country.​
> In other words, the Arab Palestinians intentionally voted for to install the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) • THEN tried to make it appear that the US was trying to interfere with the election.  They simply refused to accept the consequences of their acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dahlan, who had once been praised by George W Bush and was chosen by neoconservatives to lead a coup against the elected Hamas government in Gaza in 2007, seems to have finally managed to sneak his way back to Palestinian politics.
> 
> Gaza: The curse of Mohammed Dahlan
> 
> It has long been known that following Hamas’ victory in Palestinian Authority legislative elections in January 2006, Israel and its allies, particularly the United States, worked to undermine the Hamas-led government. Their aim was to restore the authority of the Fatah movement led by Mahmoud Abbas, which had controlled the PA since it was created in 1994 after the Oslo accords were signed the previous year.
> 
> In February 2007, after months of clashes between their supporters, Fatah and Hamas agreed to form a “national unity government” headed by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. Enraged by this, the US government hatched a plot, along with Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, to engage Hamas militarily in Gaza. But the plot failed and in June 2007 Hamas turned the tables and overran Dahlan’s US-supported militias.
> 
> Until now, the most comprehensive and essential account of these events was contained in David Rose’s April 2008 _Vanity Fair_ article, “The Gaza Bombshell.”
> 
> The Palestine Papers and the "Gaza coup"
Click to expand...


That was a lot of cutting and pasting to try and prop up your conspiracy theories.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The two faces of Fatah ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, _et al_,

Countries that are likely to be in the G-20, and a few G-20 wannabes, as well as countries, ate the opposite end of the spectrum _(poor and unstable)_ has chaotic political wrangling.   Even here in America, if the 2016 Election scandal was not triggered by the opposition party or the Russian, then our own government shot itself in the foot _(acting more dangerous that our enemies)._  Disrupting the Presidency and the government, just to get back at Donald Trump _(who admittedly is not the sharpest Pencil in the both)_. 



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were always a bit melodramatic; a drama queen.
> 
> ◈  The accusation that the US initiated a _coup d'etat_.
> ◈  The Israelis established a territory set aside for Hostile Arab Palestinians icontanment.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(hell, everybody in the world)_ knew that at the time of the Palestinian elections, it was against both American and International Law to finance terrorism _(HAMAS being a designated terrorist organization)_.
> 
> *◈   1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism  •*
> that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> *◈  18 U.S. Code  2332d Financial Transactions*  •  knowing or having reasonable cause to know that a country  as a country supporting international terrorism, engages in a financial transaction with the government of that country.​
> In other words, the Arab Palestinians intentionally voted for to install the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) • THEN tried to make it appear that the US was trying to interfere with the election.  They simply refused to accept the consequences of their acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dahlan, who had once been praised by George W Bush and was chosen by neoconservatives to lead a coup against the elected Hamas government in Gaza in 2007, seems to have finally managed to sneak his way back to Palestinian politics.
> 
> Gaza: The curse of Mohammed Dahlan
> 
> It has long been known that following Hamas’ victory in Palestinian Authority legislative elections in January 2006, Israel and its allies, particularly the United States, worked to undermine the Hamas-led government. Their aim was to restore the authority of the Fatah movement led by Mahmoud Abbas, which had controlled the PA since it was created in 1994 after the Oslo accords were signed the previous year.
> 
> In February 2007, after months of clashes between their supporters, Fatah and Hamas agreed to form a “national unity government” headed by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. Enraged by this, the US government hatched a plot, along with Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, to engage Hamas militarily in Gaza. But the plot failed and in June 2007 Hamas turned the tables and overran Dahlan’s US-supported militias.
> 
> Until now, the most comprehensive and essential account of these events was contained in David Rose’s April 2008 _Vanity Fair_ article, “The Gaza Bombshell.”
> 
> The Palestine Papers and the "Gaza coup"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a lot of cutting and pasting to try and prop up your conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In Washington, the political entities on Capital Hill have pretty much forgotten how to be an effective government and certainly are not leaders for the coming 21st Century.  And that is reflected in many country's to include the adjacent countries to Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ History....history.....]

Amash Fact Checks Ilhan Omar's Claims of 'Historic' Progress


----------



## Sixties Fan

New Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib’s First Order of Business: Wiping Israel off the Map


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, _et al_,
> 
> Countries that are likely to be in the G-20, and a few G-20 wannabes, as well as countries, ate the opposite end of the spectrum _(poor and unstable)_ has chaotic political wrangling.   Even here in America, if the 2016 Election scandal was not triggered by the opposition party or the Russian, then our own government shot itself in the foot _(acting more dangerous that our enemies)._  Disrupting the Presidency and the government, just to get back at Donald Trump _(who admittedly is not the sharpest Pencil in the both)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were always a bit melodramatic; a drama queen.
> 
> ◈  The accusation that the US initiated a _coup d'etat_.
> ◈  The Israelis established a territory set aside for Hostile Arab Palestinians icontanment.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only had their own government for about three months. Then the US had a coup and reinstalled a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(hell, everybody in the world)_ knew that at the time of the Palestinian elections, it was against both American and International Law to finance terrorism _(HAMAS being a designated terrorist organization)_.
> 
> *◈   1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism  •*
> that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> *◈  18 U.S. Code  2332d Financial Transactions*  •  knowing or having reasonable cause to know that a country  as a country supporting international terrorism, engages in a financial transaction with the government of that country.​
> In other words, the Arab Palestinians intentionally voted for to install the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) • THEN tried to make it appear that the US was trying to interfere with the election.  They simply refused to accept the consequences of their acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dahlan, who had once been praised by George W Bush and was chosen by neoconservatives to lead a coup against the elected Hamas government in Gaza in 2007, seems to have finally managed to sneak his way back to Palestinian politics.
> 
> Gaza: The curse of Mohammed Dahlan
> 
> It has long been known that following Hamas’ victory in Palestinian Authority legislative elections in January 2006, Israel and its allies, particularly the United States, worked to undermine the Hamas-led government. Their aim was to restore the authority of the Fatah movement led by Mahmoud Abbas, which had controlled the PA since it was created in 1994 after the Oslo accords were signed the previous year.
> 
> In February 2007, after months of clashes between their supporters, Fatah and Hamas agreed to form a “national unity government” headed by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. Enraged by this, the US government hatched a plot, along with Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, to engage Hamas militarily in Gaza. But the plot failed and in June 2007 Hamas turned the tables and overran Dahlan’s US-supported militias.
> 
> Until now, the most comprehensive and essential account of these events was contained in David Rose’s April 2008 _Vanity Fair_ article, “The Gaza Bombshell.”
> 
> The Palestine Papers and the "Gaza coup"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a lot of cutting and pasting to try and prop up your conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Washington, the political entities on Capital Hill have pretty much forgotten how to be an effective government and certainly are not leaders for the coming 21st Century.  And that is reflected in many country's to include the adjacent countries to Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



I couldn’t agree more, Rocco. I see an inexorable drift in this country toward the radical left. Recent elections and their aftermaths have displayed the Left's differential standard for political morality in high relief.

The most flagrant demonstrations of the Left's spiral into the oblivion has been the election of people with no apparent qualifications for office except for their identity. The Ocasio-Cortez braintrust and the Rashida Tlaib gutter politics with cheering crowds are an embarrassment, or at least they should be. It’s almost hard to understand why anyone would want to insert themselves into American political life in view of the circus it has become.

The radical Leftists seem to ignore that In the 20th century, the world stood knee deep in a lakes of blood and dead bodies filled by every manner of leftist policy and inherent excess—revenge; torture; exploitation; starvation; the elevation of psychopaths, drunks, and peasants; subversion (Armand Hammer); assassination; execution; concentration camps; aggressive war; arbitrary justice; subservient courts; sponsorship of terrorism; diplomatic support for cretins and monsters; and pursuit of ideas of human nature and economics that would have been laughable if they hadn’t been pathetic and murderous.

But this was, from the beginning, and still is, invisible to leftists. They are convinced that the highest human good is (a) to support any unanchored freaks who could fit the words “brotherhood,” “justice,” or “capitalist pig” into every second sentence and (b) to pull down any structure erected by our ancestors to encourage the triumph of reason, to promote knowledge, to encourage free inquiry, to put a muzzle on arbitrary government, and to liberate women from bonds both legal, customary, and economic.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Well, well, well......Here is one Arab Palestinian who has perfected that " We are the victims" in the Israel/Palestine conflict
 ]

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Friday night said all agreements with Israel were in jeopardy, including the Oslo Accords and security coordination, due to the moribund state of the peace process. He added that he did not intend to negotiate on US President Donald Trump’s expected peace plan due to America’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

“We are dealing with three issues that we can not accept: the situation with the US, the situation with Israel and the situation with Hamas,” Abbas told reporters during a visit to the Egyptian capital of Cairo.

(full article online)

Abbas: ‘I have no more strength to fight, but I won’t end my life as a traitor’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Normalization of relations with Israel is "betrayal of the blood of the martyrs," says senior terrorist.

(full article online)

Hamas blasts Arab states over relations with Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine TV Offices in Gaza Ransacked, Equipment Destroyed; Hamas Blamed


----------



## Sixties Fan

At a Fatah procession in Ramallah for the 54th anniversary of “the Launch” (_Intilaqa_) of Fatah, which commemorates its first attempted terror attack against Israel, masked men with Fatah headbands called for murder of Israelis, shouting “blow up the head of the settler”: 











*Man at rally:* “Fatah member, join the camp.”
*Participants:* “And blow up the head of the settler.”
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Dec. 31, 2018]

The men carried unlit torches and Fatah flags and also called out the words “Palestine” and “Shabiba,” indicating they are members of the Fatah Shabiba Youth Movement.

Palestinian Media Watch documented that Fatah Youth Movement members chanted the same chant at Bir Zeit University in 2017:


(full article online)

Fatah: "Blow up the head of the settler" – chant at Fatah rally in Ramallah - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza's New Bottom Feeders


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA withdraws from Rafah amid disagreements with Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA said that, until further notice, it will withdraw its staff from the Rafah border terminal, which is used by travelers moving to and from Egypt, raising the possibility that the crossing will shut.

An AFP journalist saw officials from Hamas, a terror group that is the de facto ruler of the Strip, at the border crossing’s main gate and inside accompanying offices in southern Gaza on Monday.

(full article online)

Hamas reclaims Egypt-Gaza border crossing as PA withdraws


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

This is too, just too funny.



Sixties Fan said:


> The PA said that, until further notice, it will withdraw its staff from the Rafah border terminal, which is used by travelers moving to and from Egypt, raising the possibility that the crossing will shut.
> 
> An AFP journalist saw officials from Hamas, a terror group that is the de facto ruler of the Strip, at the border crossing’s main gate and inside accompanying offices in southern Gaza on Monday.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas reclaims Egypt-Gaza border crossing as PA withdraws


*(COMMENT)*

Well, you cannot say that Gaza is cut-off from the world by the Israelis.  This is an Arab Palestinian → on → Arab Palestinians event.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is too, just too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PA said that, until further notice, it will withdraw its staff from the Rafah border terminal, which is used by travelers moving to and from Egypt, raising the possibility that the crossing will shut.
> 
> An AFP journalist saw officials from Hamas, a terror group that is the de facto ruler of the Strip, at the border crossing’s main gate and inside accompanying offices in southern Gaza on Monday.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas reclaims Egypt-Gaza border crossing as PA withdraws
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, you cannot say that Gaza is cut-off from the world by the Israelis.  This is an Arab Palestinian → on → Arab Palestinians event.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Abbas - 3/4 of Palestinians want him to leave. He is kept in power with US money, weapons, and political cover.


----------



## Sixties Fan

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Egypt will keep its crossing with the Gaza Strip closed to departures from the Palestinian enclave after the Palestinian Authority withdrew its officials amid disagreements with Hamas.

Gaza’s Interior Ministry, controlled by the Hamas terror group, said Monday that Egyptian officials notified them that the crossing would only be open to those entering the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Israel halts transfer of Qatari money to Gaza


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah,,,  It is always America's fault that the Arab Palestinians cannot hold their elections or transition their government.  We've heard the whining for over a decade.



P F Tinmore said:


> Abbas - 3/4 of Palestinians want him to leave. He is kept in power with US money, weapons, and political cover.


*(COMMENT)*

It is about time that the Arab Palestinians take some responsibility for themselves and their action _(rather the lack thereof)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is too, just too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PA said that, until further notice, it will withdraw its staff from the Rafah border terminal, which is used by travelers moving to and from Egypt, raising the possibility that the crossing will shut.
> 
> An AFP journalist saw officials from Hamas, a terror group that is the de facto ruler of the Strip, at the border crossing’s main gate and inside accompanying offices in southern Gaza on Monday.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas reclaims Egypt-Gaza border crossing as PA withdraws
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, you cannot say that Gaza is cut-off from the world by the Israelis.  This is an Arab Palestinian → on → Arab Palestinians event.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas - 3/4 of Palestinians want him to leave. He is kept in power with US money, weapons, and political cover.
Click to expand...


When Palis fart - it's  US to blame.
When Palis beat their wives - Jews are to blame.
And the tides of the oceans are controlled - by Israel of course.

That as far as Jihad logic goes..._"the knife told me to murder my cousin", "the gay person begged me to throw him off the building"_  kinda attitude.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The biggest losers from this internal bloodletting are the Palestinians living under these leaders in the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas-ruled Gaza.


The dispute between Hamas and Fatah is not over who will bring democracy and a better economy to the Palestinians. They are not fighting over who will improve the living conditions of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip by building new schools and hospitals. They are not fighting over who will introduce major reforms to the Palestinian government and end financial and administrative corruption. They are not fighting over the need for freedom of expression and a free media.


Mahmoud Abbas, the Hamas leaders correctly argue, is not a rightful or legitimate president. If Abbas were to sign a deal with Israel, people could come along later and say that he lacked the legal authority to do so; they would be right.


In order for any peace process to move forward, the Palestinians first need to stop attacking each other. Then, they need to come up with new leaders who actually give a damn about their people.

(full article online)

The Palestinians' Uncivil War


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> Yeah, Yeah, Yeah,,,  It is always America's fault that the Arab Palestinians cannot hold their elections or transition their government.  We've heard the whining for over a decade.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas - 3/4 of Palestinians want him to leave. He is kept in power with US money, weapons, and political cover.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is about time that the Arab Palestinians take some responsibility for themselves and their action _(rather the lack thereof)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You did not mention whether my post was true or not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The biggest losers from this internal bloodletting are the Palestinians living under these leaders in the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas-ruled Gaza.
> 
> 
> The dispute between Hamas and Fatah is not over who will bring democracy and a better economy to the Palestinians. They are not fighting over who will improve the living conditions of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip by building new schools and hospitals. They are not fighting over who will introduce major reforms to the Palestinian government and end financial and administrative corruption. They are not fighting over the need for freedom of expression and a free media.
> 
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas, the Hamas leaders correctly argue, is not a rightful or legitimate president. If Abbas were to sign a deal with Israel, people could come along later and say that he lacked the legal authority to do so; they would be right.
> 
> 
> In order for any peace process to move forward, the Palestinians first need to stop attacking each other. Then, they need to come up with new leaders who actually give a damn about their people.
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinians' Uncivil War


After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell


----------



## Sixties Fan

Assem Barghouti suspected of participating in the murder of 4 day old Amiad Ish-Ran and IDF soldiers Staff Sergeant Yuval Mor Yosef and Sergeant Yosef Cohen, and the injury of numerous others, was arrested this morning.    

According to Palestinian Authority law and regulations, since he was arrested by Israel for his "participation in the struggle against the occupation", Barghouti is entitled to a monthly salary from the PA of 6,000 shekels. According to PA law, his salary will increase over time to 12,000 shekels per month. 

Barghouti's starting salary is higher than most other terrorist prisoners, since he has already spent 11 years in prison for past involvement in terrorism. During his first term in prison, Barghouti received an estimated cumulative sum of 447,000 shekels. 

Additionally, according the PA law and regulations, upon his release, Barghouti was also entitled to a $6,000 one-time release grant and a guaranteed salary paid by the PA even if he did not work.

Assem Barghouti is not the only baby killer that receives a monthly salary from the PA. Other recipients include, Amjad and Hakim Awad who murdered the five members of the Fogel Family, parents and their three children, including 3 month old Hadas, and four year old Eldad in March 2011 and have already cumulatively received 460,800 shekels ($132,895); Abdullah Barghouti who built six bombs used by suicide terrorists including the bomb that exploded in the Sbarro pizza shop in August 2001 murdering 15 people, among them two year-old Hemda Schijveschuurder, and who has already received 695,200 shekels ($200,496); and Majdi Za'atri who planned the August 2003 Jerusalem bus bombing, in which 23 people were murdered, including one year-olds Shmuel Zargari and Shmuel Taubenfeld, who has already received 661,800 shekels ($190,863). 

(full article online)

Another baby murderer to receive fat salary from the PA - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Dennis Ross, Arafat denied that the Temple was in Jerusalem and said it was in Nablus.

The idea that ancient Jews lived in Yemen instead of Israel has popped up from time to time, including on Palestinian TV.

It is of course not only ludicrous to think that the Israeli negotiators would say that Arafat must die for saying something absurd, but to think that they said it within earshot of the Palestinian negotiators is insanity.

But Arabs love their conspiracy theories.

(full article online)

PLO negotiator: "Arafat assassinated because he said Solomon's Temple was in Yemen" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

No one knows what, (if anything) happened to the Ark of the Covenant (AoC).  there is no record of it's true resting place since the cession of hostilities between the Israelites and the Babylonians, sometime between 590 BC and 580 BC.   The First Temple in Jerusalem, originally completed around 960 BC, was completely destroyed at the conclusion of the conflict, and legend says that the Arc of the Covenant disappeared sometime during that conflict.



Sixties Fan said:


> According to Dennis Ross, Arafat denied that the Temple was in Jerusalem and said it was in Nablus.
> 
> The idea that ancient Jews lived in Yemen instead of Israel has popped up from time to time, including on Palestinian TV.
> 
> It is of course not only ludicrous to think that the Israeli negotiators would say that Arafat must die for saying something absurd, but to think that they said it within earshot of the Palestinian negotiators is insanity.
> 
> But Arabs love their conspiracy theories.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO negotiator: "Arafat assassinated because he said Solomon's Temple was in Yemen" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

Since no one knows what happened to the AoC; but some hypothesize that the Solomon's First Son, who's mother was the Queen of Sheba,  went to visit his father _(King Solomon)_ in Jerusalem.  One of many possible stories is that the Son _(Menelik),_ on his return to Sheba _(modern-day Yemen)_, brought the AoC with him.  The location of the Capital of Sheba and the Queen's Palace (_Dungur)_ has been in dispute for centuries; with some saying the Palace was located at the site of the ruins of Aksum in Ethiopia, and others allege the Queen's Palace to be somewhere in the vicinity of Sanaa, Yemen.  Still others in the chase, have put forth the idea that the AoC may yet be found in or around Kiryat Ye’arim, within the Palace of Telz-Stone, west of Jerusalem.  The Palace of Telz-Stone site is believed to be the remains of a temple mentioned in the Book of Ezra. 

The point being that *IF* Yasar Arafat made such a statement, it would not be any less a possibility than any other of the theories.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> No one knows what, (if anything) happened to the Ark of the Covenant (AoC).  there is no record of it's true resting place since the cession of hostilities between the Israelites and the Babylonians, sometime between 590 BC and 580 BC.   The First Temple in Jerusalem, originally completed around 960 BC, was completely destroyed at the conclusion of the conflict, and legend says that the Arc of the Covenant disappeared sometime during that conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Dennis Ross, Arafat denied that the Temple was in Jerusalem and said it was in Nablus.
> 
> The idea that ancient Jews lived in Yemen instead of Israel has popped up from time to time, including on Palestinian TV.
> 
> It is of course not only ludicrous to think that the Israeli negotiators would say that Arafat must die for saying something absurd, but to think that they said it within earshot of the Palestinian negotiators is insanity.
> 
> But Arabs love their conspiracy theories.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO negotiator: "Arafat assassinated because he said Solomon's Temple was in Yemen" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Since no one knows what happened to the AoC; but some hypothesize that the Solomon's First Son, who's mother was the Queen of Sheba,  went to visit his father _(King Solomon)_ in Jerusalem.  One of many possible stories is that the Son _(Menelik),_ on his return to Sheba _(modern-day Yemen)_, brought the AoC with him.  The location of the Capital of Sheba and the Queen's Palace (_Dungur)_ has been in dispute for centuries; with some saying the Palace was located at the site of the ruins of Aksum in Ethiopia, and others allege the Queen's Palace to be somewhere in the vicinity of Sanaa, Yemen.  Still others in the chase, have put forth the idea that the AoC may yet be found in or around Kiryat Ye’arim, within the Palace of Telz-Stone, west of Jerusalem.  The Palace of Telz-Stone site is believed to be the remains of a temple mentioned in the Book of Ezra.
> 
> The point being that *IF* Yasar Arafat made such a statement, it would not be any less a possibility than any other of the theories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You mean the Ark of the Covenant isn’t a fairytale?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Clarification of PMW bulletin about map in Congress - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Today's Palestinian activities ]

Israeli woman attacked by hammer-wielding Arabs in Samaria

Stabbing in Jerusalem - terrorism suspected


----------



## Sixties Fan

Peaceful coexistence between Jews and Arabs. Isn't that what everyone wants?

Not Fatah. 

Fatah called on the Palestinian people to boycott the "colonial markets and shops of Rami Levy," saying that "buying, renting or shopping is a betrayal of the homeland."

In 2010, Fatah called on Palestinians to boycott Rami Levy supermarkets. It threatened anyone who shopped there and took photos of shoppers and license plates. Palestinians all ignored the threats and shop there all the time, side by side with Jews, and there are very few problems (sometimes terrorists will target the stores.)

Al Monitor reported in 2013:

 Each month, hundreds of Palestinians visit the shopping centers owned by Israeli businessman Rami Levy in the settlements of Kfar Etzion in Hebron and Ma’alie Mikhmas near Ramallah, in search of the cheapest prices and offers.
Mother of five, Dalal al-Kuwaiti, told Al-Monitor in Ramallah, “The first time I went to shop from Rami Levy four years ago, it felt strange for me to be in an Israeli settlement mingling with settlers, but I got used to it.”
Kuwaiti shops at Rami Levy twice a month, spending 1,000 shekels [$280], or one-third of her husband’s salary, who is a PA employee. “I would need at least twice that amount if I were to shop at the local Palestinian market. There are always offers and sales on food items, which is unheard of in local markets.”
Despite the National Dignity Fund publishing censored photographs of car license plates and Palestinian shopper’s faces to deter them from shopping at Rami Levy, they continued to do so.

(full article online)

Fatah says anyone who shops at new mall - where 35% of stores are Arab owned - is a traitor ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Wary of PA ‘corruption,’ Palestinians launch protest of new social security law


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ No money to pay employees, but plenty to create anything to attack Israel with ]

Terror group set to renew violence amid rising criticism from Gazans, who see recent cash injections from Qatar as easing living conditions only of Hamas members rather than public

(full article online)

Hamas renews funding for incendiary kite units ahead of expected escalation


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas Celebrates 14th Anniversary of His Four-Year Term


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dissolved Palestinian Legislative Council removes PA president Abbas from power


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Action Group for Palestinians of Syria says that according to its research, there are at least 1,711 Palestinians being held in Syrian prisons.


The plight of the Palestinians in Syria is not difficult to fathom. What _is_difficult to fathom is: Where are the international media when those Palestinians are being brutalized?


One can make up excuses for the apathy of the international community toward the atrocities the Palestinians are facing in Syria. However, the indifference of Palestinian leaders to the suffering of their own people is harder to justify.


As the reports about the Palestinian victims were emerging, Abbas was in Cairo socializing with famous Egyptian actors and actresses.
(full article online)

Palestinians: While Abbas and Hamas were Hurling Insults at Each Other...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Several Palestinian holders of Israeli ID cards who rented apartments and houses in the West Bank in recent years, the official said, were involved in various crimes, including drug trafficking and prostitution. 

Many Arab residents of east Jerusalem, especially those living outside the municipal boundaries of the city, protested against the new measure. 

Some expressed fear that landlords who don’t want to share datails about their properties and tenants with the PA security forces will stop doing business with east Jerusalem residents. Others expressed fear that Israeli authorities may find out that they had moved to live in the West Bank and subsequently revoke their Israeli ID cards.

As permanent residents of Jerusalem, the Arabs in the city hold Israeli ID cards. However, the Israeli Ministry of the Interior is authorized to revoke the residency of any resident who moves to live outside the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem or leaves the country for more than seven years.

(full article online)

PA orders Palestinian landlords to seek approval for Israeli-Arab tenants


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Dissolved Palestinian Legislative Council removes PA president Abbas from power


Abbas is the division. He has to go.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dissolved Palestinian Legislative Council removes PA president Abbas from power
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. He has to go.
Click to expand...


Such profound directives are really just empty bluster. The Abbas dictatorship is no different than the neighboring dictatorship in Gaza. Islamic dictators are routine in the Middle East. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe that whatever dictator eventually steps into a leadership position to replace Abbas will have any interest in doing anything but exploiting the UNRWA welfare fraud.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dissolved Palestinian Legislative Council removes PA president Abbas from power
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. He has to go.
Click to expand...

Who takes his place and what should they do?


----------



## Hollie

I suppose when you’re an Islamic terrorist dictator and you survive by creating an external enemy, it has to be a full- blown, across the board effort. 




Abbas’ deputy participates in burning “coffin” with photos of US Pres. Trump and PM Netanyahu

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Jan. 9, 2019 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
https://www.palwatch.org/site/modules/print/preview.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=27110&section=all
*Abbas’ deputy participates in burning “coffin” with photos of US Pres. Trump and PM Netanyahu - PMW Bulletins

Abbas’ deputy participates in burning “coffin” with photos of US Pres. Trump and PM Netanyahu*


*Fatah deputy chairman Al-Aloul about the PA's terror campaigns (the intifadas), which killed approximately 1400 Israelis:
They were "battles of honor and heroism which... has brought glory to the nation"*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Celebrating the 54th anniversary of the Fatah Movement, which is commemorated on the day of its first attempted terror attack against Israel, Abbas' deputy chairman of Fatah, Mahmoud Al-Aloul, participated in a ceremony at which a black "coffin" decorated with photos of Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and US President Trump was burned in front of a large crowd. 





A red "X" is painted over the faces of Netanyahu and Trump. [Official Fatah Facebook page, Jan. 3, 2019]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dissolved Palestinian Legislative Council removes PA president Abbas from power
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. He has to go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who takes his place and what should they do?
Click to expand...

Good question. Their constitution states that the speaker of parliament is to temporarily be president and hold elections within 60 days. Since the speaker of parliament is Dr. Aziz Dwaik, a Hamas member, the "West" will not let that happen. We will tear up their constitution and install another dictator.


----------



## Hollie

*This just in:
*
_*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.

Tell your friends.



"U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> *This just in:
> *
> _*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.
> 
> Tell your friends.
> 
> 
> 
> "U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"


In the context of his historical era he was...much like Jesus.  Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.   4...3...2...insert 3 pages of cutnpaste out of context blood thirsty Muslim quotes.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.



One of the very great challenges faced in all religions, imo, is to grow humanity on a continuous basis.  Religions which fix "human rights activism" (read: human rights) at a specific point in time or with specific immutable instructions which can't (or don't) adapt to changing expectations, technology, new ideas, new discoveries, etc are bound to become the antithesis of "human rights activism" over time.  Islam does not have a good record of keeping up with ideas of feminism, among other ideas.  This is particularly true in isolated, homogeneous Muslim-majority nations.  Islam fairs better when embedded in progressive and integrated, multi-cultural societies.  Just my opinion.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This just in:
> *
> _*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.
> 
> Tell your friends.
> 
> 
> 
> "U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"
> 
> 
> 
> In the context of his historical era he was...much like Jesus.  Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.   4...3...2...insert 3 pages of cutnpaste out of context blood thirsty Muslim quotes.
Click to expand...


That’s odd. I don’t recall any historical examples of Jesus leading armies of conquest. Muhammud (swish), lead how many wars of aggression? I think three is the number.  But of course, you would know better than me. 

4...3...2.... but... but... but... but Islam is a _Religion of Peace™️_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tlaib Slams Anti-BDS Bill: 'Literally an Attack on Our Constitution'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Tlaib Slams Anti-BDS Bill: 'Literally an Attack on Our Constitution'


*Tlaib on Anti-BDS Bill: The Bill is 'Literally An Attack On Our Constitution'*


----------



## Sixties Fan

First, a word about what “Palestinian” means.

There have been between three political entities that could be called “Palestine:” the first was a Roman province created when the Romans joined what was formerly called Judea to Roman Syria and called it “_Syria Palaestina_,” in order to irritate the Jews left alive after they sacked Jerusalem. That didn’t stick, and Judea went back to being called Judea.

Then there was the _British Mandate for Palestine_, which existed from 1923 to 1948, and encompassed several provinces of the former Ottoman Empire. It was replaced by the State of Israel.

Finally there is today’s _Palestinian Authority_, which was created by the Oslo Accords, and governs some 95% of the Arabs in Judea and Samaria, and theoretically all of Gaza. It is not a state and cannot issue legal passports.




John Krebs’ Palestinian passport. Note stamp near the bottom indicating that he was a Palestinian citizen
John Hans Krebs z”l (born Hans Joachim Krebs in Berlin, Germany, in 1927) moved to Mandatory Palestine with his parents in 1933. As a young man he served in the pre-state Hagana, and then came to the US to study law at the University of California at Berkeley in 1946, when he was almost 20. He got his law degree in 1950, served in the US Army from 1952-54, and received US citizenship in 1954. He also married his wife, Hanna in that year.

(full article online)

The First Actual Palestinian-American in Congress (and He Was Jewish)


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA rebuilds homes of murderers under orders of Mahmoud Abbas and PA Prime Minister  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This just in:
> *
> _*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.
> 
> Tell your friends.
> 
> 
> 
> "U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"
> 
> 
> 
> In the context of his historical era he was...much like Jesus.  Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.   4...3...2...insert 3 pages of cutnpaste out of context blood thirsty Muslim quotes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s odd. I don’t recall any historical examples of Jesus leading armies of conquest. Muhammud (swish), lead how many wars of aggression? I think three is the number.  But of course, you would know better than me.
> 
> 4...3...2.... but... but... but... but Islam is a _Religion of Peace™️_
Click to expand...

There are no religions of peace, at least not among those that attained regional dominance.  You you do realize that?


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> PA rebuilds homes of murderers under orders of Mahmoud Abbas and PA Prime Minister  - PMW Bulletins


Why not?  Israel doesnt demolish the family homes of Jewish murderers after all.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This just in:
> *
> _*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.
> 
> Tell your friends.
> 
> 
> 
> "U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"
> 
> 
> 
> In the context of his historical era he was...much like Jesus.  Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.   4...3...2...insert 3 pages of cutnpaste out of context blood thirsty Muslim quotes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s odd. I don’t recall any historical examples of Jesus leading armies of conquest. Muhammud (swish), lead how many wars of aggression? I think three is the number.  But of course, you would know better than me.
> 
> 4...3...2.... but... but... but... but Islam is a _Religion of Peace™️_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no religions of peace, at least not among those that attained regional dominance.  You you do realize that?
Click to expand...


I realize that. That is why I questioned the notion of muhammud being a Human rights activist in view of the wars of murder, rapine and conquest fought under his leadership and in furtherance of those wars he was general of. 

It's difficult to reconcile the imposition of dhimmitude with a human rights activist.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This just in:
> *
> _*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.
> 
> Tell your friends.
> 
> 
> 
> "U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"
> 
> 
> 
> In the context of his historical era he was...much like Jesus.  Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.   4...3...2...insert 3 pages of cutnpaste out of context blood thirsty Muslim quotes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s odd. I don’t recall any historical examples of Jesus leading armies of conquest. Muhammud (swish), lead how many wars of aggression? I think three is the number.  But of course, you would know better than me.
> 
> 4...3...2.... but... but... but... but Islam is a _Religion of Peace™️_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no religions of peace, at least not among those that attained regional dominance.  You you do realize that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize that. That is why I questioned the notion of muhammud being a Human rights activist in view of the wars of murder, rapine and conquest fought under his leadership and in furtherance of those wars he was general of.
> 
> It's difficult to reconcile the imposition of dhimmitude with a human rights activist.
Click to expand...

Again it should be viewed in the context and norms  of his times. 


Dhimmi - Wikipedia


----------



## Sixties Fan

He added that these visits between the Arab officials and Israelis, whether public or secret, go beyond all the Arab decisions taken by the official Arab institutions against normalization with Israel  until the people get their legitimate rights and the occupation leaves the Palestinian and Arab territories (which appears to mean all of Israel.)

Zaki stressed that the normalization with Israel is part of a growing conspiracy against the Palestinian struggle.

Articles like this betray how Palestinian leaders are panicking over the now-public lack of support that they are getting from their Arab "brethren." I've been writing about how Arab states have been getting sick of the Palestinian issue for over ten years now. Because of pride, they couldn't go public with their unease at throwing money towards a cause they no longer believe in, but over time even that obstacle is slowly toppling.

(full article online)

Fatah leader: Arab leaders meeting Israelis a "stab in the back" of Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Abbas seems to think that he is President and leader of ALL
 Arabs ]

On Tuesday, the official PA news agency Wafa cited an order of the Ramallah government that “Palestinians with Israeli citizenship need to have permission before they can rent in the West Bank,” adding that “this procedure is intended for organizational purposes only and it should not take more than two weeks to give an answer after an application is submitted.”

Wafa also noted that the cabinet did not offer any more details, other than promise that “it is intended to protect the public interest.” The cabinet announcement also said: “Palestinians from occupied East Jerusalem who have Israeli residency but not citizenship since Israel has annexed the city after its occupation in 1967 are exempt from this procedure.”

(full article online)

PA Extends to Israeli Arabs the Prohibition on Selling Land to Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

Blood money, not benevolence: The PLO's Justification of 'pay for slay'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prosor underscores that Double Identity aims to move the debate over UNRWA from the macro to the micro and show who the Palestinians – who represent themselves or are portrayed by others as refugees deserving of UNRWA assistance –really are.

"If the grandfathers and grandmothers of these people and people like them were refugees from anywhere else in the world, they would already have settled permanently and not be entitled to transfer refugee status to their children," Prosor says.

"Because of the crooked way in which the U.N. and UNRWA keep defining Palestinian refugeehood, these young people can live regular, successful lives but keep calling themselves or are being called 'refugees.'"

The Abba Eban Institute has discovered that UNRWA spends an average of $250 per year on each of the 5.3 million Palestinian refugees, compared to the average $60 dollars the U.N. Refugee Agency on each of the 68 million other refugees worldwide.

UNRWA's employment rolls also point to bloat. Some 10,000 people work for the U.N. Refugee Agency, while UNRWA – which handles a number equivalent to 8% of the number of refugees in the charge of the U.N. Refugee Agency – employs three times as many, some 30,000.

"The U.N. won't merge UNRWA and the U.N. Refugee Agency without heavy pressure on it to do so. The Double Identity campaign and other public diplomacy on the issue of UNRWA and the refugees … will help coalesce public opinion in support of the pressure the U.S. and Israel are putting on the U.N. The goal is to end this [UNRWA] scandal, which even now maintains refugee camps that have turned into breeding grounds for hatred and terrorism against Israel," Prosor says.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/01/11/pretend-refugees/


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The concept of social security is not necessarily a bad thing but the way it was implemented is not ideal," Yamen, a Palestinian activist who asked that his last name not be disclosed, asserted to The Media Line. "It is critical that this type of legislation, which affects people’s lives quite directly, be clearly understood by the general population.

(full article online)

Palestinians in West Bank on verge of revolt against social security law


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Prosor underscores that Double Identity aims to move the debate over UNRWA from the macro to the micro and show who the Palestinians – who represent themselves or are portrayed by others as refugees deserving of UNRWA assistance –really are.
> 
> "If the grandfathers and grandmothers of these people and people like them were refugees from anywhere else in the world, they would already have settled permanently and not be entitled to transfer refugee status to their children," Prosor says.
> 
> "Because of the crooked way in which the U.N. and UNRWA keep defining Palestinian refugeehood, these young people can live regular, successful lives but keep calling themselves or are being called 'refugees.'"
> 
> The Abba Eban Institute has discovered that UNRWA spends an average of $250 per year on each of the 5.3 million Palestinian refugees, compared to the average $60 dollars the U.N. Refugee Agency on each of the 68 million other refugees worldwide.
> 
> UNRWA's employment rolls also point to bloat. Some 10,000 people work for the U.N. Refugee Agency, while UNRWA – which handles a number equivalent to 8% of the number of refugees in the charge of the U.N. Refugee Agency – employs three times as many, some 30,000.
> 
> "The U.N. won't merge UNRWA and the U.N. Refugee Agency without heavy pressure on it to do so. The Double Identity campaign and other public diplomacy on the issue of UNRWA and the refugees … will help coalesce public opinion in support of the pressure the U.S. and Israel are putting on the U.N. The goal is to end this [UNRWA] scandal, which even now maintains refugee camps that have turned into breeding grounds for hatred and terrorism against Israel," Prosor says.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/01/11/pretend-refugees/


Let the Palestinians go home,

Problem solved.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prosor underscores that Double Identity aims to move the debate over UNRWA from the macro to the micro and show who the Palestinians – who represent themselves or are portrayed by others as refugees deserving of UNRWA assistance –really are.
> 
> "If the grandfathers and grandmothers of these people and people like them were refugees from anywhere else in the world, they would already have settled permanently and not be entitled to transfer refugee status to their children," Prosor says.
> 
> "Because of the crooked way in which the U.N. and UNRWA keep defining Palestinian refugeehood, these young people can live regular, successful lives but keep calling themselves or are being called 'refugees.'"
> 
> The Abba Eban Institute has discovered that UNRWA spends an average of $250 per year on each of the 5.3 million Palestinian refugees, compared to the average $60 dollars the U.N. Refugee Agency on each of the 68 million other refugees worldwide.
> 
> UNRWA's employment rolls also point to bloat. Some 10,000 people work for the U.N. Refugee Agency, while UNRWA – which handles a number equivalent to 8% of the number of refugees in the charge of the U.N. Refugee Agency – employs three times as many, some 30,000.
> 
> "The U.N. won't merge UNRWA and the U.N. Refugee Agency without heavy pressure on it to do so. The Double Identity campaign and other public diplomacy on the issue of UNRWA and the refugees … will help coalesce public opinion in support of the pressure the U.S. and Israel are putting on the U.N. The goal is to end this [UNRWA] scandal, which even now maintains refugee camps that have turned into breeding grounds for hatred and terrorism against Israel," Prosor says.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/01/11/pretend-refugees/
> 
> 
> 
> Let the Palestinians go home,
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...





Palestinian Arabs' ancient homeland, ancient clans, culture and gods.

Palestinian Arabs go home.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_


BLUF:  Before you can make such a claim ("problem solved") in the decision-making process to take such an action _("let the Palestinians go home")_ there is a subprocess → known as the evaluation of acceptable risk.  This uses _(not exclusively)_ of cost → benefit analysis for determining assigning liability of deaths, destruction of property, and the political consequences associated with such a decision _(sometimes know in the legal profession as a variation of the "Hand Rule")_.  Most Executive Level Political Decisions are very much absent this evaluation and view.



EXCERPT:  P F Tinmore said:


> Problem solved.



That is so naive a response.  BUT! ... It is a response that I've heard many times.  It is a response that has some serious flaws. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Let the Palestinians go home,


*(COMMENT)*

First, for the Israelis, to even give any serious consideration to the issue of the "Right of Return" (RoR), the matter of --- to which Arab Palestinians the RoR applies.  As I have provided information on before, there are only about 20 - to - 30 thousand Arab Palestinians out of the entirety of Arab Palestinian population on the rolls that are actual "refugees," and to which RoR would apply.  And as the West Bank and Gaza Strip unnecessarily prolong the conflict, that number dwindles.  Already the set of Arab Palestinians that are passing the mean for life expectancy for those below that actually lost estate property _(land and home, owned by one by a family, or applied to business)_ in the displacement from one part of the territory to another.

In the second place, the reality of the situation _(how such an action today could be accomplished)_ is that the actual  home or business that once existed in 1948, may not even exist in the form it was then.

There is an important factor that has seldom been openly talked about on any serious lever.  Whether you are talking about any of the Arab Palestinian political-paramilitary (POL-PAR) organizations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip → there is a particularly high percentage of the population that either directly or indirectly provides resources and support to the various Arab Palestinian factions that:

◈  Threats issue and acted upon through the use of force or violence;
◈  Hold to a political agenda or objective and desire eliminate the Jewish population from the region;
◈  In order to attain these objectives, goals and POL-PAR desires, they operate in the furtherance of their  intentions by spreading fear by committing spectacular public acts;
◈  They use of lethal devices against various defined public places with intent to kill _(as many as possible)_ or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public places.
​Finally, the relocation and implantation of an Arab Palestinian population _(of any size)_ is actually the facilitation and infiltration of jihadists, insurgents, radicalized Islamic troublemakers, adherents, guerrillas and asymmetric fighter inside a target rich environment of Jews.

There is such a thing in the decision-making process known as the evaluation of acceptable risk.  This use of cost → benefit analysis for determining assigning liability of deaths, destruction of property, and the political consequences associated with such a decision.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> BLUF:  Before you can make such a claim ("problem solved") in the decision-making process to take such an action _("let the Palestinians go home")_ there is a subprocess → known as the evaluation of acceptable risk.  This uses _(not exclusively)_ of cost → benefit analysis for determining assigning liability of deaths, destruction of property, and the political consequences associated with such a decision _(sometimes know in the legal profession as a variation of the "Hand Rule")_.  Most Executive Level Political Decisions are very much absent this evaluation and view.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is so naive a response.  BUT! ... It is a response that I've heard many times.  It is a response that has some serious flaws.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let the Palestinians go home,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, for the Israelis, to even give any serious consideration to the issue of the "Right of Return" (RoR), the matter of --- to which Arab Palestinians the RoR applies.  As I have provided information on before, there are only about 20 - to - 30 thousand Arab Palestinians out of the entirety of Arab Palestinian population on the rolls that are actual "refugees," and to which RoR would apply.  And as the West Bank and Gaza Strip unnecessarily prolong the conflict, that number dwindles.  Already the set of Arab Palestinians that are passing the mean for life expectancy for those below that actually lost estate property _(land and home, owned by one by a family, or applied to business)_ in the displacement from one part of the territory to another.
> 
> In the second place, the reality of the situation _(how such an action today could be accomplished)_ is that the actual  home or business that once existed in 1948, may not even exist in the form it was then.
> 
> There is an important factor that has seldom been openly talked about on any serious lever.  Whether you are talking about any of the Arab Palestinian political-paramilitary (POL-PAR) organizations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip → there is a particularly high percentage of the population that either directly or indirectly provides resources and support to the various Arab Palestinian factions that:
> 
> ◈  Threats issue and acted upon through the use of force or violence;
> ◈  Hold to a political agenda or objective and desire eliminate the Jewish population from the region;
> ◈  In order to attain these objectives, goals and POL-PAR desires, they operate in the furtherance of their  intentions by spreading fear by committing spectacular public acts;
> ◈  They use of lethal devices against various defined public places with intent to kill _(as many as possible)_ or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public places.
> ​Finally, the relocation and implantation of an Arab Palestinian population _(of any size)_ is actually the facilitation and infiltration of jihadists, insurgents, radicalized Islamic troublemakers, adherents, guerrillas and asymmetric fighter inside a target rich environment of Jews.
> 
> There is such a thing in the decision-making process known as the evaluation of acceptable risk.  This use of cost → benefit analysis for determining assigning liability of deaths, destruction of property, and the political consequences associated with such a decision.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So says Israel.

The children of Palestinians are Palestinians. That is their nationality and Palestine is their homeland. They belong to that territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  This is an exceedingly bad comparison and leads one to draw a false conclusion.



P F Tinmore said:


> So says Israel.
> 
> The children of Palestinians are Palestinians. That is their nationality and Palestine is their homeland. They belong to that territory.


*(COMMENT)*

In the since 1990s, more than a dozen new countries have emerged just from a territory of the former Soviet Union.  Similarly, there was the fracturing of the former Yugoslavia when it dissolved.

People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.

In both cases, along with ten _(or so)_ other countries, the borders, sovereignty, and nationality have emerged.  The Palestinians are just one of many.

We call the former Soviet Union or the former Yugoslavia for historical purposes.  But the  Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Montenegro were all Yugoslavs.  Just as the people of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, and Georgia were all → once → Soviets.

*✪*_*  Things Change!*_* ✪*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  This is an exceedingly bad comparison and leads one to draw a false conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> The children of Palestinians are Palestinians. That is their nationality and Palestine is their homeland. They belong to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the since 1990s, more than a dozen new countries have emerged just from a territory of the former Soviet Union.  Similarly, there was the fracturing of the former Yugoslavia when it dissolved.
> 
> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.
> 
> In both cases, along with ten _(or so)_ other countries, the borders, sovereignty, and nationality have emerged.  The Palestinians are just one of many.
> 
> We call the former Soviet Union or the former Yugoslavia for historical purposes.  But the  Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Montenegro were all Yugoslavs.  Just as the people of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, and Georgia were all → once → Soviets.
> 
> *✪*_*  Things Change!*_* ✪*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.


Interesting.

So, what nationality are the Palestinians now?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  This is an exceedingly bad comparison and leads one to draw a false conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> The children of Palestinians are Palestinians. That is their nationality and Palestine is their homeland. They belong to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the since 1990s, more than a dozen new countries have emerged just from a territory of the former Soviet Union.  Similarly, there was the fracturing of the former Yugoslavia when it dissolved.
> 
> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.
> 
> In both cases, along with ten _(or so)_ other countries, the borders, sovereignty, and nationality have emerged.  The Palestinians are just one of many.
> 
> We call the former Soviet Union or the former Yugoslavia for historical purposes.  But the  Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Montenegro were all Yugoslavs.  Just as the people of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, and Georgia were all → once → Soviets.
> 
> *✪*_*  Things Change!*_* ✪*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> So, what nationality are the Palestinians now?
Click to expand...


Once again, no one is preventing Arab Palestinians from holding an identity. 

Just so, you should apply the same criteria to the Jewish people. The children of the Jewish people are Jewish people. Their nationality is Israeli, Judean and Samaritan. Israel, Judea and Samaria is their homeland. They belong to that territory. 

As soon as you stop creating special rules for the Jewish people and apply the same criteria to the Jewish Palestinians as you do to the Arab Palestinians there can be peace.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:   Under International Law:  Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons:




​
The various Pro-Palestinians movements do this!  They alter the issue to fit their agenda.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> So, what nationality are the Palestinians now?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

No matter how the Pro-Palestinian Movement defines "Palestine,"  by definition, the Arab Palestinian Refugees or Arab Palestinian stateless persons are NOT citizens and cannot claim the nationality of the sovereign State of Israel unless Israeli law permits so.  This definition is not unique to Israel.  It is the International Standard used around the world.

✧ The question is not:  "What nationality are the Palestinians?"
✧ The question is:  "What nation accepts the Palestinians as nationals of their state."​
IF there is a sovereignty in the region which is willing to accept the Arab Palestinians, THEN let it be so.   But my understanding is that NONE of the adjacent Arab League States wish that responsibility.

So, the quandary that faces the international community is:

✧  IF the international community does NOT accept the Ramallah Government as the "State of Palestinian," which includes the West Bank and Gaza Strip _(or IF no other state take-up that responsibiity)_ THEN the Arab Palestinian population becomes "Stateless."

✧ IF the Arab Palestinians do NOT come to a consensus as to the acceptance of what the territory of the State of Palestinian is, THEN the responsibility for the questionable status of the Arab Palestinians is of their own choosing _(their destiny and their self-determination)_.​
At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:   Under International Law:  Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons:
> 
> View attachment 239650​
> The various Pro-Palestinians movements do this!  They alter the issue to fit their agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> So, what nationality are the Palestinians now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter how the Pro-Palestinian Movement defines "Palestine,"  by definition, the Arab Palestinian Refugees or Arab Palestinian stateless persons are NOT citizens and cannot claim the nationality of the sovereign State of Israel unless Israeli law permits so.  This definition is not unique to Israel.  It is the International Standard used around the world.
> 
> ✧ The question is not:  "What nationality are the Palestinians?"
> ✧ The question is:  "What nation accepts the Palestinians as nationals of their state."​
> IF there is a sovereignty in the region which is willing to accept the Arab Palestinians, THEN let it be so.   But my understanding is that NONE of the adjacent Arab League States wish that responsibility.
> 
> So, the quandary that faces the international community is:
> 
> ✧  IF the international community does NOT accept the Ramallah Government as the "State of Palestinian," which includes the West Bank and Gaza Strip _(or IF no other state take-up that responsibiity)_ THEN the Arab Palestinian population becomes "Stateless."
> 
> ✧ IF the Arab Palestinians do NOT come to a consensus as to the acceptance of what the territory of the State of Palestinian is, THEN the responsibility for the questionable status of the Arab Palestinians is of their own choosing _(their destiny and their self-determination)_.​
> At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.


No state is obligated to take people who are not nationals of their state.

What are the legalities of eliminating Palestine?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:   Under International Law:  Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons:
> 
> View attachment 239650​
> The various Pro-Palestinians movements do this!  They alter the issue to fit their agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> People that were once Soviets or once Yugoslavs are no more, but something else.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> So, what nationality are the Palestinians now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter how the Pro-Palestinian Movement defines "Palestine,"  by definition, the Arab Palestinian Refugees or Arab Palestinian stateless persons are NOT citizens and cannot claim the nationality of the sovereign State of Israel unless Israeli law permits so.  This definition is not unique to Israel.  It is the International Standard used around the world.
> 
> ✧ The question is not:  "What nationality are the Palestinians?"
> ✧ The question is:  "What nation accepts the Palestinians as nationals of their state."​
> IF there is a sovereignty in the region which is willing to accept the Arab Palestinians, THEN let it be so.   But my understanding is that NONE of the adjacent Arab League States wish that responsibility.
> 
> So, the quandary that faces the international community is:
> 
> ✧  IF the international community does NOT accept the Ramallah Government as the "State of Palestinian," which includes the West Bank and Gaza Strip _(or IF no other state take-up that responsibiity)_ THEN the Arab Palestinian population becomes "Stateless."
> 
> ✧ IF the Arab Palestinians do NOT come to a consensus as to the acceptance of what the territory of the State of Palestinian is, THEN the responsibility for the questionable status of the Arab Palestinians is of their own choosing _(their destiny and their self-determination)_.​
> At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No state is obligated to take people who are not nationals of their state.
> 
> What are the legalities of eliminating Palestine?
Click to expand...


You keep throwing up false ideas as though they were true.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  This is a bedrock principle that → no nation or group of nations may → "intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state."  No matter how many resolutions that promote anti-Jewish State or anti-Israeli State, that "the Israeli/Jewish State has the right to defend its integrity and independence (once it is established), to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.
> 
> 
> 
> No state is obligated to take people who are not nationals of their state.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes, this is a simplified presentation of the Article I • : Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons: •   This is the deceptively simple underpinning behind the authority to police the sovereign borders.  It is why the nations of the world can never say that the Arab Palestinians have some right to overturn a nation



P F Tinmore said:


> What are the legalities of eliminating Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

Is this a question at all?  

Consider:  What was the "legalities" of the eliminations of Austrian and Turkish empires?  The newly created Kingdoms of Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia out of territory from the Austrian and Turkish empires.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  This is a bedrock principle that → no nation or group of nations may → "intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state."  No matter how many resolutions that promote anti-Jewish State or anti-Israeli State, that "the Israeli/Jewish State has the right to defend its integrity and independence (once it is established), to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> At this point in time, none of the immediate adjacent nations actually gives a political damn about the fate of the Arab Palestinians; just as long as it does NOT interfere with the sovereignty of the adjacent states.
> 
> 
> 
> No state is obligated to take people who are not nationals of their state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a simplified presentation of the Article I • : Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons: •   This is the deceptively simple underpinning behind the authority to police the sovereign borders.  It is why the nations of the world can never say that the Arab Palestinians have some right to overturn a nation
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the legalities of eliminating Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is this a question at all?
> 
> Consider:  What was the "legalities" of the eliminations of Austrian and Turkish empires?  The newly created Kingdoms of Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia out of territory from the Austrian and Turkish empires.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Holy smokescreen, Batman! Why don't you just answer the question?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I did answer the question.



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No state is obligated to take people who are not nationals of their state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the legalities of eliminating Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman! Why don't you just answer the question?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There are no legalities _(whatever your scambled question is meant to mean)_ has no relevance.

No one eliminated "Palestine."

Instead of looking for your preconceived notion as to what the right answer is, why don't you look at the answers given and make an intelligent attempt to understand the answers. 

You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.

The Palestinians are in the condition and status of today through their own actions _(or lack thereof)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Minister of Local Authorities Hussein Al-A’araj stated that Israel deliberately lets drugs into Palestinian society to harm it:



















(full article online)

PA again blames its problems on Israel - this time it's drugs - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I did answer the question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No state is obligated to take people who are not nationals of their state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the legalities of eliminating Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman! Why don't you just answer the question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are no legalities _(whatever your scambled question is meant to mean)_ has no relevance.
> 
> No one eliminated "Palestine."
> 
> Instead of looking for your preconceived notion as to what the right answer is, why don't you look at the answers given and make an intelligent attempt to understand the answers.
> 
> You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.
> 
> The Palestinians are in the condition and status of today through their own actions _(or lack thereof)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.


Bullshit Israeli talking point.

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what nationality are the Palestinians now?



I'd be interested in having you answer your own question.  What is the nationality of (Arab) Palestinians now?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite Egyptian efforts to kill the tunnel trade between Gaza and Egypt, somehow the Palestinians are still managing to dig more.

Palestine Today reports that Egyptian forces blew up a "commercial" tunnel connecting the Egyptian side with the Gaza Strip, but no injuries were reported. A huge explosion shook the city of Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, indicating that the explosion was caused by the bombing of a tunnel from the Egyptian side.

Egypt had planned to, and as far as I know did, clear out all land in Rafah for a couple of hundred meters at the border to be able to detect any tunnels.

(full article online)

Egypt is still destroying Gaza tunnels ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

OH, for heaven's sake.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is rediculase.  Just how am I going to actually do this.



			
				Ultimate Collection of Ultimate Fallacies said:
			
		

> *Proving Non-Existence*
> 
> *Description:* Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something.  Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence.  The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
> *SOURCE*:  •  Comprehensive Collections of Logical Fallacies  •



Did the Arab Palestinian ever establish soveriegnty _(supreme political authority)_?
◈  Where and when?​
It is my understanding that the Arab Palestinians have not established such control over any territory that could be describe as sovereignty.   Gaza was relinquished to them _(the Arab Palestinians did not actually establish it)_ and Area "A" _(by mutual agreement)_.

It is my understanding that the Arab Higher Committee had --- and later the Arab Palestinians rejected any and all offers at participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> OH, for heaven's sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is rediculase.  Just howmam I going to actually do this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimate Collection of Ultimate Fallacies said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Proving Non-Existence*
> 
> *Description:* Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something.  Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence.  The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
> *SOURCE*:  •  Comprehensive Collections of Logical Fallacies  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did the Arab Palestinian ever establish soveriegnty _(supreme political authority)_?
> ◈  Where and when?​
> It is my understanding that the Arab Palestinians have not established such control over any territory that could be describe as sovereignty.   Gaza was relinquished to them _(the Arab Palestinians did not actually establish it)_ and Area "A" _(by mutual agreement)_.
> 
> It is my understanding that the Arab Higher Committee had --- and later the Arab Palestinians rejected any and all offers at participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It is my understanding that the Arab Higher Committee had --- and later the Arab Palestinians rejected any and all offers at participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.


That required them to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course that was not acceptable.

You keep saying that the Palestinians, who were under military occupation, did not acquire physical control. That is not required.

*ARTICLE 4*
States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

*ARTICLE 5*
The fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933​
The fact that foreign military powers have prevented the exercise of their rights do not negate their rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> OH, for heaven's sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is rediculase.  Just howmam I going to actually do this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimate Collection of Ultimate Fallacies said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Proving Non-Existence*
> 
> *Description:* Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something.  Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence.  The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
> *SOURCE*:  •  Comprehensive Collections of Logical Fallacies  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did the Arab Palestinian ever establish soveriegnty _(supreme political authority)_?
> ◈  Where and when?​
> It is my understanding that the Arab Palestinians have not established such control over any territory that could be describe as sovereignty.   Gaza was relinquished to them _(the Arab Palestinians did not actually establish it)_ and Area "A" _(by mutual agreement)_.
> 
> It is my understanding that the Arab Higher Committee had --- and later the Arab Palestinians rejected any and all offers at participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is rediculase. Just howmam I going to actually do this.


You said it. You prove it.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> OH, for heaven's sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot eliminate a sovereignty _(country/nation)_ that never existed.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is rediculase.  Just howmam I going to actually do this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimate Collection of Ultimate Fallacies said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Proving Non-Existence*
> 
> *Description:* Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something.  Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence.  The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
> *SOURCE*:  •  Comprehensive Collections of Logical Fallacies  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did the Arab Palestinian ever establish soveriegnty _(supreme political authority)_?
> ◈  Where and when?​
> It is my understanding that the Arab Palestinians have not established such control over any territory that could be describe as sovereignty.   Gaza was relinquished to them _(the Arab Palestinians did not actually establish it)_ and Area "A" _(by mutual agreement)_.
> 
> It is my understanding that the Arab Higher Committee had --- and later the Arab Palestinians rejected any and all offers at participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is my understanding that the Arab Higher Committee had --- and later the Arab Palestinians rejected any and all offers at participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That required them to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course that was not acceptable.
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians, who were under military occupation, did not acquire physical control. That is not required.
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> *ARTICLE 5*
> The fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933​
> The fact that foreign military powers have prevented the exercise of their rights do not negate their rights.
Click to expand...


Rocco is neither negating nor denying the Arab Palestinian RIGHT to self-governance.  He is arguing that they are not self-governing (under the normal criteria for sovereignty) in point of actual fact.  

YOU seem to be arguing that the Arab Palestinians not only lack the actual fact of self-governance or sovereignty but further actually REFUSE self-governance and sovereignty.  And you don't seem to see that as self-defeating.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yeah, that is true.



P F Tinmore said:


> That required them to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course that was not acceptable.
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians, who were under military occupation, did not acquire physical control. That is not required.
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> *ARTICLE 5*
> The fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933​
> The fact that foreign military powers have prevented the exercise of their rights do not negate their rights.


*(COMMENT)*

To be a state (otherwise it Articles do not apply) is to be a competent authority.  More importantly, in order for the Arab Palestinians to have been a "state" under the Montevideo Treaty (Rights and Duties), at some point in time, they would have had to HAVE: *should possess *_(have as belonging to one; own) _*the following qualifications:* 
a ) a permanent population;
✦  The Arab Palestinians, even today, do not have a permanent population.​b ) a defined territory; 
✦ Even today, much less earlier, the Arab Palestinians must have a defined territory.  Hell that is one of the issues under the Permanent Status of Negotiation. (Remember Israel has agreed upon international boundaries.​c ) government; and
✦ When Israel was the only country with effective control over the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jersualem, the Arab Palestinians did not even have a government.  Not in 1967 and not in 1988 when Jordan abandon it.​d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
✦ It was only in 2012, that President Abbas started signing treaties.  The Arab Palestinians only have control over Area "A."​I ask again, when you say that the Arab Palestinians have a country, what are you talking about.  I think that there is an illusion of a country.  But certainly, it is an illusion of sovereignty and control.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, that is true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That required them to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course that was not acceptable.
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians, who were under military occupation, did not acquire physical control. That is not required.
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> *ARTICLE 5*
> The fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933​
> The fact that foreign military powers have prevented the exercise of their rights do not negate their rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To be a state (otherwise it Articles do not apply) is to be a competent authority.  More importantly, in order for the Arab Palestinians to have been a "state" under the Montevideo Treaty (Rights and Duties), at some point in time, they would have had to HAVE: *should possess *_(have as belonging to one; own) _*the following qualifications:*
> a ) a permanent population;
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians, even today, do not have a permanent population.​b ) a defined territory;
> ✦ Even today, much less earlier, the Arab Palestinians must have a defined territory.  Hell that is one of the issues under the Permanent Status of Negotiation. (Remember Israel has agreed upon international boundaries.​c ) government; and
> ✦ When Israel was the only country with effective control over the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jersualem, the Arab Palestinians did not even have a government.  Not in 1967 and not in 1988 when Jordan abandon it.​d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
> ✦ It was only in 2012, that President Abbas started signing treaties.  The Arab Palestinians only have control over Area "A."​I ask again, when you say that the Arab Palestinians have a country, what are you talking about.  I think that there is an illusion of a country.  But certainly, it is an illusion of sovereignty and control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

III. ARGUMENT NUMBER THREE: STATEHOOD AS AFFECTED BY BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION OF  A STATE'S TERRITORY

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, that is true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That required them to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course that was not acceptable.
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians, who were under military occupation, did not acquire physical control. That is not required.
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> *ARTICLE 5*
> The fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933​
> The fact that foreign military powers have prevented the exercise of their rights do not negate their rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To be a state (otherwise it Articles do not apply) is to be a competent authority.  More importantly, in order for the Arab Palestinians to have been a "state" under the Montevideo Treaty (Rights and Duties), at some point in time, they would have had to HAVE: *should possess *_(have as belonging to one; own) _*the following qualifications:*
> a ) a permanent population;
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians, even today, do not have a permanent population.​b ) a defined territory;
> ✦ Even today, much less earlier, the Arab Palestinians must have a defined territory.  Hell that is one of the issues under the Permanent Status of Negotiation. (Remember Israel has agreed upon international boundaries.​c ) government; and
> ✦ When Israel was the only country with effective control over the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jersualem, the Arab Palestinians did not even have a government.  Not in 1967 and not in 1988 when Jordan abandon it.​d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
> ✦ It was only in 2012, that President Abbas started signing treaties.  The Arab Palestinians only have control over Area "A."​I ask again, when you say that the Arab Palestinians have a country, what are you talking about.  I think that there is an illusion of a country.  But certainly, it is an illusion of sovereignty and control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,

*BLUF: * There is no actual violation of Customary or International Humanitarian Law. While a large number of opinions have been made both "pro" and "con" → no one actually cites a "TRUE LAW." In August 1988, Israel came to be the only STATE to have any kind of control at all over the territories. No other STATE made claim._



P F Tinmore said:


> III. ARGUMENT NUMBER THREE: STATEHOOD AS AFFECTED BY BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION OF  A STATE'S TERRITORY
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians did not have a "STATE" when Israel was an Occupation force.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

No, not at all.

I have, on many occasions, made it clear that Israeli Occupation is NOT = Sovereignty.  But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.  It is NOT a true "occupation" of Palestinian territory _(it was never theirs to begin with)_.  It is a territory under *A/RES/2625 (III)*:



			
				A/RES/2625 said:
			
		

> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.



For each opinion on one side of the issue, there is an equal number of opinions on the opposite side of the issue.

"*Navigation* Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]‎
*Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory  *

     The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.

     Territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.  Title acquired in the first category is called original title, while in the second category is called derivative title.  Modes of original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
(1)  Occupation
*Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.*  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).
     For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
     Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There is no actual violation of Customary or International Humanitarian Law. While a large number of opinions have been made both "pro" and "con" → no one actually cites a "TRUE LAW." In August 1988, Israel came to be the only STATE to have any kind of control at all over the territories. No other STATE made claim._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> III. ARGUMENT NUMBER THREE: STATEHOOD AS AFFECTED BY BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION OF  A STATE'S TERRITORY
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians did not have a "STATE" when Israel was an Occupation force.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, not at all.
> 
> I have, on many occasions, made it clear that Israeli Occupation is NOT = Sovereignty.  But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.  It is NOT a true "occupation" of Palestinian territory _(it was never theirs to begin with)_.  It is a territory under *A/RES/2625 (III)*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/2625 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For each opinion on one side of the issue, there is an equal number of opinions on the opposite side of the issue.
> 
> "*Navigation* Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]‎
> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.
> 
> Territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.  Title acquired in the first category is called original title, while in the second category is called derivative title.  Modes of original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> (1)  Occupation
> *Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.*  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be* peaceful, *real, and continuous.


When was it ever peaceful?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There is no actual violation of Customary or International Humanitarian Law. While a large number of opinions have been made both "pro" and "con" → no one actually cites a "TRUE LAW." In August 1988, Israel came to be the only STATE to have any kind of control at all over the territories. No other STATE made claim._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> III. ARGUMENT NUMBER THREE: STATEHOOD AS AFFECTED BY BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION OF  A STATE'S TERRITORY
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians did not have a "STATE" when Israel was an Occupation force.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, not at all.
> 
> I have, on many occasions, made it clear that Israeli Occupation is NOT = Sovereignty.  But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.  It is NOT a true "occupation" of Palestinian territory _(it was never theirs to begin with)_.  It is a territory under *A/RES/2625 (III)*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/2625 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For each opinion on one side of the issue, there is an equal number of opinions on the opposite side of the issue.
> 
> "*Navigation* Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]‎
> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.
> 
> Territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.  Title acquired in the first category is called original title, while in the second category is called derivative title.  Modes of original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> (1)  Occupation
> *Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.*  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.


You are still confusing military occupation with sovereignty.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There is no actual violation of Customary or International Humanitarian Law. While a large number of opinions have been made both "pro" and "con" → no one actually cites a "TRUE LAW." In August 1988, Israel came to be the only STATE to have any kind of control at all over the territories. No other STATE made claim._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> III. ARGUMENT NUMBER THREE: STATEHOOD AS AFFECTED BY BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION OF  A STATE'S TERRITORY
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians did not have a "STATE" when Israel was an Occupation force.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, not at all.
> 
> I have, on many occasions, made it clear that Israeli Occupation is NOT = Sovereignty.  But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.  It is NOT a true "occupation" of Palestinian territory _(it was never theirs to begin with)_.  It is a territory under *A/RES/2625 (III)*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/2625 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For each opinion on one side of the issue, there is an equal number of opinions on the opposite side of the issue.
> 
> "*Navigation* Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]‎
> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.
> 
> Territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.  Title acquired in the first category is called original title, while in the second category is called derivative title.  Modes of original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> (1)  Occupation
> *Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.*  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still confusing military occupation with sovereignty.
Click to expand...


When Turks ruled the place was it military occupation or sovereignty?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There is no actual violation of Customary or International Humanitarian Law. While a large number of opinions have been made both "pro" and "con" → no one actually cites a "TRUE LAW." In August 1988, Israel came to be the only STATE to have any kind of control at all over the territories. No other STATE made claim._
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> III. ARGUMENT NUMBER THREE: STATEHOOD AS AFFECTED BY BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION OF  A STATE'S TERRITORY
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians did not have a "STATE" when Israel was an Occupation force.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, not at all.
> 
> I have, on many occasions, made it clear that Israeli Occupation is NOT = Sovereignty.  But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.  It is NOT a true "occupation" of Palestinian territory _(it was never theirs to begin with)_.  It is a territory under *A/RES/2625 (III)*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/2625 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For each opinion on one side of the issue, there is an equal number of opinions on the opposite side of the issue.
> 
> "*Navigation* Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]‎
> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.
> 
> Territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.  Title acquired in the first category is called original title, while in the second category is called derivative title.  Modes of original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> (1)  Occupation
> *Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.*  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be* peaceful, *real, and continuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it ever peaceful?
Click to expand...


All up until the renewed wave of Arab Pogroms in the 1920's,
and then the peace agreements with the neighboring Arab states.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, and this is where it gets tricky.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be* peaceful, *real, and continuous.
> 
> 
> 
> When was it ever peaceful?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Israel has implemented "annexation" only in a couple of cases, the best known are the Golan Heights, and a portion of Jerusalem.  And in those two areas,  it has been relatively peaceful.

But that is not a REAL issue, even among the many.  In considering the discussion, the applicable REAL issue revolves around the Arab Palestinian demand that they are allowed to formalize their failed state that openly supports Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.

*⟴*  International situation, events and conditions evolve much faster than do the development of applicable laws.  For instance, Resolutions 17, 18 and 19 of the 1974-77 Diplomatic Conference culminated in the in 1989 amendments to Annex I to Protocol I _(Regulations concerning identification)_ finally adopted on 30 November 1993 and came into force on 1 March 1994.  In total, that was a 20-year process.  And the concepts behind what happens in the reality of the modern day political-military (POL-MIL) world are not hard and fast.  The rules that nations adopt are not politically mutual suicide pacts.  Most nations, most of the time, exercise those options that are in their own best interest.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,

 I have to chuckle here.  You don't really expect him to answer that?



rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military occupation with sovereignty.
Click to expand...

When Turks ruled the place was it military occupation or sovereignty?[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

Sovereign Control...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,
> 
> I have to chuckle here.  You don't really expect him to answer that?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military occupation with sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Turks ruled the place was it military occupation or sovereignty?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Sovereign Control...

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

Good question. Do you think you'll get an answer?

What was it called when Jordan 'occupied' the WB?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:

(full article online)

Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Making the case stronger to prohibit his entry is US law. The opening paragraph of America's Taylor Force law passed in 2018 reads: "The Palestinian Authority's practice of paying salaries to terrorists serving in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of deceased terrorists, is an incentive to commit acts of terror."

With this, the US has recognized Abbas' direct connection to terror.

The PA is in the unique position internationally being an entity that is fundamentally involved in terror yet the international community has not yet held them responsible and has not yet undertaken prosecution. It is time for the US to take a stand, not by merely withholding money from the PA, but by actively pursuing those responsible for funding terror. In the names of all the Americans whose murderers Abbas is rewarding because he believes they are "stars in the sky," the US must announce to the world that Abbas and all PA leaders involved in funding terror are not welcome in the United States. And should Abbas land on American soil this week the US should consider having him investigated under suspicion of heading the program that incentivized the murder of Americans.

(full article online)

PMW op-ed: Keep Abbas out of the US - PMW Bulletins


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,
> 
> I have to chuckle here.  You don't really expect him to answer that?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military occupation with sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Turks ruled the place was it military occupation or sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sovereign Control...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Good question. Do you think you'll get an answer?

What was it called when Jordan 'occupied' the WB?[/QUOTE]

It was call RECOGNITION of JORDANIAN TERRITORY by the U.N.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Mindful, et al,


Mindful said:


> Good question. Do you think you'll get an answer?
> 
> What was it called when Jordan 'occupied' the WB?


*(COMMENT)*




*Unification of the Two Banks*

"On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, *constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion."

Called: "Constitutional Expansion of the Hashemite Kingdom"  (AKA:  Annexation).  It was NOT Palestinian Territory but instead, Sovereign Jordanian Territory, without objection from the inhabitants. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.



Well, that is a much trickier and more complex question than you let on.  You seem to be implying that occupations are permanently PROHIBITED from acquiring sovereignty, and that is just not true.  The truth, is "it depends".  It depends, in part, on the status of the territory prior to the occupation.  It depends, in part, on any treaties or agreements made by concerned Parties.  It depends, in part, on the reasons for the occupation, its duration and extent. 

A military attack by one State, which has a fully functioning government and is recognized as sovereign, against another State, which has a fully functioning government and is recognized as sovereign, and where there is a treaty delineating a border between the two and which results in the military occupation of one State over territory of another State would be very different from, say, a defensive attack by one State, which has a fully functioning government and is recognized as sovereign, against an ungoverned, unrecognized, hostile population on terra nullius.

If you begin the conversation with silly ideas like "Israel doesn't exist" and "Palestine has been a state since 1924", you are going to misunderstand international law quite a bit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,
> 
> I have to chuckle here.  You don't really expect him to answer that?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But by the same token, if the Arab Palestinians never have any type of control over the territory, then nothing was taken from them.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military occupation with sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Turks ruled the place was it military occupation or sovereignty?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Sovereign Control...

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
I don't know. However, the rules of the game have changed since then. Conquest was illegal in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Mindful, et al,
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Do you think you'll get an answer?
> 
> What was it called when Jordan 'occupied' the WB?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Unification of the Two Banks*
> 
> "On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, *constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion."
> 
> Called: "Constitutional Expansion of the Hashemite Kingdom"  (AKA:  Annexation).  It was NOT Palestinian Territory but instead, Sovereign Jordanian Territory, without objection from the inhabitants.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Annexing occupied territory is illegal. The world considered the West Bank as a trust territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control, i.e. occupation, with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is a much trickier and more complex question than you let on.  You seem to be implying that occupations are permanently PROHIBITED from acquiring sovereignty, and that is just not true.  The truth, is "it depends".  It depends, in part, on the status of the territory prior to the occupation.  It depends, in part, on any treaties or agreements made by concerned Parties.  It depends, in part, on the reasons for the occupation, its duration and extent.
> 
> A military attack by one State, which has a fully functioning government and is recognized as sovereign, against another State, which has a fully functioning government and is recognized as sovereign, and where there is a treaty delineating a border between the two and which results in the military occupation of one State over territory of another State would be very different from, say, a defensive attack by one State, which has a fully functioning government and is recognized as sovereign, against an ungoverned, unrecognized, hostile population on terra nullius.
> 
> If you begin the conversation with silly ideas like "Israel doesn't exist" and "Palestine has been a state since 1924", you are going to misunderstand international law quite a bit.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> You seem to be implying that occupations are permanently PROHIBITED from acquiring sovereignty, and that is just not true.


They aren't?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, and this is where it gets tricky.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be* peaceful, *real, and continuous.
> 
> 
> 
> When was it ever peaceful?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel has implemented "annexation" only in a couple of cases, the best known are the Golan Heights, and a portion of Jerusalem.  And in those two areas,  it has been relatively peaceful.
> 
> But that is not a REAL issue, even among the many.  In considering the discussion, the applicable REAL issue revolves around the Arab Palestinian demand that they are allowed to formalize their failed state that openly supports Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.
> 
> *⟴*  International situation, events and conditions evolve much faster than do the development of applicable laws.  For instance, Resolutions 17, 18 and 19 of the 1974-77 Diplomatic Conference culminated in the in 1989 amendments to Annex I to Protocol I _(Regulations concerning identification)_ finally adopted on 30 November 1993 and came into force on 1 March 1994.  In total, that was a 20-year process.  And the concepts behind what happens in the reality of the modern day political-military (POL-MIL) world are not hard and fast.  The rules that nations adopt are not politically mutual suicide pacts.  Most nations, most of the time, exercise those options that are in their own best interest.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Israel has implemented "annexation" only in a couple of cases, the best known are the Golan Heights, and a portion of Jerusalem. And in those two areas, it has been relatively peaceful.


Is that why Israel is constantly whining about so called terrorist attacks?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Always playing the terrorist card.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Always playing the terrorist card.
Click to expand...

It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.

As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.

Your heroes


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Always playing the terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.
> 
> As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.
> 
> Your heroes
Click to expand...

Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Always playing the terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.
> 
> As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.
> 
> Your heroes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
Click to expand...

You simply HATE the truth.  
But....what else is new with you?

Nothing


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Always playing the terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.
> 
> As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.
> 
> Your heroes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply HATE the truth.
> But....what else is new with you?
> 
> Nothing
Click to expand...

 
He claims that annexing “ Occupied Territory” is Illegal? He always “ forgets” to mention that the International Community Formally recognized the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem as part of Jordan. 
 Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Hamideh, founder of Al-Awda, the Palestinian "right to return coalition" that wants to erase Israel, met with new member of Congress Rashida Tlaib:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rashida Tlaib meets with terrorist supporter ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Always playing the terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.
> 
> As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.
> 
> Your heroes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply HATE the truth.
> But....what else is new with you?
> 
> Nothing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He claims that annexing “ Occupied Territory” is Illegal? He always “ forgets” to mention that the International Community Formally recognized the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem as part of Jordan.
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”


Do you have any proof of the contrary?

Que song and dance.
3
2
1


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always playing the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.
> 
> As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.
> 
> Your heroes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply HATE the truth.
> But....what else is new with you?
> 
> Nothing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He claims that annexing “ Occupied Territory” is Illegal? He always “ forgets” to mention that the International Community Formally recognized the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem as part of Jordan.
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of the contrary?
> 
> Que song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
Click to expand...


According to you, “ International Law” would create the “ Two State Solution “ and Israel is the one who’s isn’t abiding by it.  Now, DANCE !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is very easy to see that you have not met ONE Muslim terrorist, or terrorist supporter, you have not liked.
> 
> As long as they are all seeking the non existence of Israel, which you are 100% for, all is well.
> 
> Your heroes
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You simply HATE the truth.
> But....what else is new with you?
> 
> Nothing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He claims that annexing “ Occupied Territory” is Illegal? He always “ forgets” to mention that the International Community Formally recognized the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem as part of Jordan.
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of the contrary?
> 
> Que song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to you, “ International Law” would create the “ Two State Solution “ and Israel is the one who’s isn’t abiding by it.  Now, DANCE !!!
Click to expand...

There is no law requiring a two state solution.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
> 
> 
> 
> You simply HATE the truth.
> But....what else is new with you?
> 
> Nothing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He claims that annexing “ Occupied Territory” is Illegal? He always “ forgets” to mention that the International Community Formally recognized the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem as part of Jordan.
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of the contrary?
> 
> Que song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to you, “ International Law” would create the “ Two State Solution “ and Israel is the one who’s isn’t abiding by it.  Now, DANCE !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no law requiring a two state solution.
Click to expand...


You’re right..,,  The U.N.


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's terrorist propaganda is a crock of crap.
> 
> 
> 
> You simply HATE the truth.
> But....what else is new with you?
> 
> Nothing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He claims that annexing “ Occupied Territory” is Illegal? He always “ forgets” to mention that the International Community Formally recognized the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem as part of Jordan.
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since he cares so much about “ International Law” did you see his post reviewing Palestinians where they state that the ENTIRE region should be “ Palestine?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof of the contrary?
> 
> Que song and dance.
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to you, “ International Law” would create the “ Two State Solution “ and Israel is the one who’s isn’t abiding by it.  Now, DANCE !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no law requiring a two state solution.
Click to expand...


You’re right..,, The U.N. Mandate doesn’t matter.   Since you don’t recognize it I imagine we will not see those words anymore in your posts.
       Show us please where “ International Law” allows for Israel’s destruction and their obvious plans to do just that.  Since you don’t recognize it as being valid we can look forward to your posts claiming that Israel is the “ obstacle to peace” and they are breaking “ International law “.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no law requiring a two state solution.



On the contrary, current principles of international law reject the denial of self-determination for peoples who seek it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hundred Years War (Divest This!) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,
_
*BLUF: * You are like a drunk driver, weaving all over the road.  Humanity is not perfect.  The history of Humanity is checkered to say the least.  But at the end of the day, Israel is fighting for their piece of existence.  The Arab's have 22 pieces of existence in their community _(The Arab League)_; and one of that membership is predominately Palestinian in its citizenship _(Jordan)_. 
*_________________________________*​*(COMMENT)*

The decision Processes are not perfect.  In the Arab - Israeli Conflict there is one thing that we can observe as evidentiary in nature.

•  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.
•  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
•  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine.
•  The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
•  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
•  Justification of the current nature of the struggle to liberate Palestine, that is, the armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
•  Palestinian Arab Official Admits “Killing Israelis is not Terror, it’s Legitimate”​
The Arab Palestinian demonstrates every day that their first response to any dispute is "violence."   There is no intent to engage in any peace effort.  Violence is their first choice and not the last choice.

The adoption of this Arab Palestinian decision process illuminates the intent to exercise extreme criminal behaviors with lack of conscience and a total disregard for human life.  This includes unarmed target of opportunity.

This is the legacy of the Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  "P F Tinmore, et al,

That is absolutely correct.  Just as there is NO legal requirement to establish an Arab State.



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no law requiring a two state solution.


*(COMMENT)*

It is the explicit intent to create → in Palestine → a national home for the Jewish people; NOT a national home for the Arab Palestinians.  The establish of "Trans-Jordania" _(an Arab State) _was a separately addressed issue the Emir.

The original intent did not preclude a whole host of possibilities, but it was only explicit in one objective.  To that end, the issues of immigration and citizenship were addressed in regard to the Jewish People.   Supplemental enhancements to further the principle intent was the development of self-governing institutions.

In 1923, the Arab Palestinians rejected for a third tome to participate in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government and involved in the development of self-governance.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> *BLUF: * You are like a drunk driver, weaving all over the road.



This is in need of a serious upvote.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is absolutely correct.  Just as there is NO legal requirement to establish an Arab State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law requiring a two state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is the explicit intent to create → in Palestine → a national home for the Jewish people; NOT a national home for the Arab Palestinians.  The establish of "Trans-Jordania" _(an Arab State) _was a separately addressed issue the Emir.
> 
> The original intent did not preclude a whole host of possibilities, but it was only explicit in one objective.  To that end, the issues of immigration and citizenship were addressed in regard to the Jewish People.   Supplemental enhancements to further the principle intent was the development of self-governing institutions.
> 
> In 1923, the Arab Palestinians rejected for a third tome to participate in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government and involved in the development of self-governance.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, so what does that have to do with my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,
> _
> *BLUF: * You are like a drunk driver, weaving all over the road.  Humanity is not perfect.  The history of Humanity is checkered to say the least.  But at the end of the day, Israel is fighting for their piece of existence.  The Arab's have 22 pieces of existence in their community _(The Arab League)_; and one of that membership is predominately Palestinian in its citizenship _(Jordan)_.
> *_________________________________*​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> The decision Processes are not perfect.  In the Arab - Israeli Conflict there is one thing that we can observe as evidentiary in nature.
> 
> •  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.
> •  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> •  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine.
> •  The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> •  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> •  Justification of the current nature of the struggle to liberate Palestine, that is, the armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> •  Palestinian Arab Official Admits “Killing Israelis is not Terror, it’s Legitimate”​
> The Arab Palestinian demonstrates every day that their first response to any dispute is "violence."   There is no intent to engage in any peace effort.  Violence is their first choice and not the last choice.
> 
> The adoption of this Arab Palestinian decision process illuminates the intent to exercise extreme criminal behaviors with lack of conscience and a total disregard for human life.  This includes unarmed target of opportunity.
> 
> This is the legacy of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinian demonstrates every day that their first response to any dispute is "violence."


What dispute?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,
> _
> *BLUF: * You are like a drunk driver, weaving all over the road.  Humanity is not perfect.  The history of Humanity is checkered to say the least.  But at the end of the day, Israel is fighting for their piece of existence.  The Arab's have 22 pieces of existence in their community _(The Arab League)_; and one of that membership is predominately Palestinian in its citizenship _(Jordan)_.
> *_________________________________*​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> The decision Processes are not perfect.  In the Arab - Israeli Conflict there is one thing that we can observe as evidentiary in nature.
> 
> •  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.
> •  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> •  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine.
> •  The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> •  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> •  Justification of the current nature of the struggle to liberate Palestine, that is, the armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> •  Palestinian Arab Official Admits “Killing Israelis is not Terror, it’s Legitimate”​
> The Arab Palestinian demonstrates every day that their first response to any dispute is "violence."   There is no intent to engage in any peace effort.  Violence is their first choice and not the last choice.
> 
> The adoption of this Arab Palestinian decision process illuminates the intent to exercise extreme criminal behaviors with lack of conscience and a total disregard for human life.  This includes unarmed target of opportunity.
> 
> This is the legacy of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> Justification of the current nature of the struggle to liberate Palestine, that is, the armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.


Everybody struggling for their freedom are called terrorists by their occupiers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Monday, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is scheduled to meet with UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres. The UN announcement of the meeting doesn’t refer to Abbas as president; rather, it uses the term “His Excellency,” which is the UN protocol title for a country’s leader. Then on Tuesday, the “State of Palestine” will assume the Chairmanship of the Group of 77 — a coalition of 134 developing nations, designed to promote its members’ collective economic interests and create an enhanced joint negotiating capacity in the United Nations.

Abbas’ recognition by the UN as the legitimate ruler of the Palestinian people is nearly as bizarre as the UN’s near-acceptance of the idea that the Palestinian Authority (PA) contributes to global peace and prosperity. All this begs a question: Does the UN want to enable terror or disable terror?

PA law mandates that “salaries” be paid to Palestinian terrorists if they are caught or killed. The PA “pay-to-slay” programs — and the incentives they provide to perpetuate terrorism — are described in the Taylor Force Act, a US law enacted in March 2018, as well as in more recently enacted Israeli legislation. After much obfuscation and obstruction by the Palestinian Authority and the media, the existence of these payment programs is now exposed to all.

Sadly, too many UN member states have become terror deniers. Why doesn’t the UN join nations of conscience in their condemnation of the PA’s financial rewards and incentives for terror? Put another way — is the UN becoming a terror enabler?

For the PA, ending these payments crosses a “red line.” Palestinian officials, in Arabic, characterize terror trust fund recipients as “soldiers and sons of our nation.” But in English, they defend these payments as “social welfare” used to support “innocent individuals” suffering from the loss of a head of household “breadwinner.” This claim, which attempts to convert blood money into benevolence, is usually phrased like it was in this July 2017 statement by Husam Zomlot, the former PLO envoy to the US:

(full article online)

Does the UN Secretary General Really Want to Enable PA-Sponsored Terrorism?


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA minister promotes anti-Israel conspiracy theory – why it matters.


----------



## Sixties Fan

It should be noted that Egypt can open the crossing any time it wants, but at this time it refuses to open it unless the Palestinian Authority is there. In the past Egypt did open the crossing sporadically to traffic when Hamas controlled the crossing, and during the time the Muslim Brotherhood controlled Egypt the crossing was open often. On Sunday, Egypt did allow crossing one way into Gaza, but not out, so PA presence is certainly not necessary for the border to be opened.

As usual, the news story is of little interest to international media, because Palestinian suffering from infighting is not nearly as interesting to the world as when Israel can be blamed.

(full article online)

Hamas, PA continue to blame each other for closure of Rafah crossing ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It didn't take any time at all to see where the election of Rashida Tlaib was leading. She wasted no time in defining her alliances with the angry, Jew hating islamic misfits. 


Activist who said Israel is a ‘terrorist entity’ 
attends Tlaib swearing-in, private dinner
Activist who said Israel is a ‘terrorist entity’ attends Tlaib swearing-in, private dinner

“Unfortunately, we really aren’t surprised. Tlaib is turning out to be the exact person we were warning she is,” said Republican Jewish Coalition spokesperson Neil Strauss.
BY JACKSON RICHMAN


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is the kind of story that the "State of Palestine" does not intend to raise during its chairmanship of the largest bloc of developing countries at the UN. It seems that, from the point of view of the Palestinian Authority leadership, Jbara's ordeal does not fall within the category of human rights.


Jbara's story has barely attracted the attention of the international mainstream media. As far as many foreign journalists covering the Middle East are concerned, a Palestinian woman complaining about torture in a Palestinian prison is not newsworthy. Had she been detained by Israel, Jbara would have most likely made it to the front pages of the world's leading newspapers and magazines in a matter of minutes.


The PA regularly complains about human rights violations of Palestinians held in Israeli prison for security-related offenses. But when the PA's own security forces detain and torture a mother of three, Palestinian leaders are found elsewhere -- like at the helm of a UN bloc.
(full article online)

The UN, the "State of Palestine" and the Torture of Women


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This just in:
> *
> _*“*_Prophet_*”  *_Muhammud_ (_swish_) _was a human rights activist.
> 
> Tell your friends.
> 
> 
> 
> "U.S. Political Activist Linda Sarsour: The Prophet Muhammad Was a Human Rights Activist; We Don't Need the West to Teach Us about Feminism"
> 
> 
> 
> In the context of his historical era he was...much like Jesus.  Problem with most prophets is their messages get lost by their followers.   4...3...2...insert 3 pages of cutnpaste out of context blood thirsty Muslim quotes.
Click to expand...


* WARNING: Hight Concentration Tyqqiya Stench
*
Q. In which context was the prophet of the Christians a warlord teaching his followers how to behead infidels?

Q. Or did You just compare the civilization of the Jewish 2nd Temple, to the Arabian Jahiliyyah (lit. era of stupidity) when they were burying their daughters alive in the desert??

And by the way, we don't need the millions of blood thirsty quotes of Muslims today, all it takes is the one Muslim who's behavior is idolized.

Your taqqiya might work for the "queers for Hamas" idiots, not with the infidels here.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Chris Smith, the New Jersey Republican who is trying to push through a bill that would enhance the role of the anti-Semitism monitor, put out a news release minutes after it passed the US House of Representatives and noted it was approved “overwhelmingly.”

Legislators love to describe support for their bills as “overwhelming,” but the word they love even more is “unanimous.” Only one vote kept Smith from tasting that victory, and it was by a fellow Republican: Justin Amash of Michigan.

Why was Amash, a traditionalist Christian libertarian and Palestinian American, opposed to the bill, which would set a 90-day deadline for US President Donald Trump to fill a position left empty since the start of his term? JTA asked his office, as well as Amash directly on Twitter, and he was not forthcoming.

(full article online)

Republican Palestinian-American is sole vote against anti-Semitism monitor


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Conspiracy Theories Explain the Lack of Peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

Know How to Answer, part 15: "Israel has the most hawkish government in its history" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Another of the high EQ (Entertainment Quotient), knuckledraggers that are such a part of the Arab-Moslem alternate reality.


"Palestinian Cleric Saed Al-Tubasi Speaks Out Against Normalization with Israel: Muslims Must Hate the Jews" 

_Palestinian cleric Saed Al-Tubasi said in a video posted on January 7 on Alfoz Internet TV (Kuwait) that the desires of the Jews are not limited to Palestine, as evidenced by the blue stripes on the Israeli flag, which he claimed symbolize the Nile and Euphrates rivers. He claimed that the Jews also want parts of northern Arabia and of southern Turkey. Sheikh Al-Tubasi added that the Palestinians are against normalization of ties with Israel and that the infidels are trying to change the education curricula in Muslim countries and to put an end to the concepts of Jihad and of disavowal of infidels. Al-Tubasi also said that Muslims must disavow and hate the Jews._


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


>


Now all you have to do is convince 11 million Palestinians that they don't exist.

Good luck with that.

*THE 8TH ANNUAL HOUSTON PALESTINIAN FESTIVAL | 03-24-2018*


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince 11 million Palestinians that they don't exist.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> *THE 8TH ANNUAL HOUSTON PALESTINIAN FESTIVAL | 03-24-2018*
Click to expand...


More distortions and semantics.

I've no intention of convincing anyone of anything, certainly not you. I don't need to. 

Facts are facts.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems don’t agree about what a Pal’istanian is.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lebanese Palestinians still trying to get funds pledged in 2008 for destroyed camp ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is the kind of story that the "State of Palestine" does not intend to raise during its chairmanship of the largest bloc of developing countries at the UN. It seems that, from the point of view of the Palestinian Authority leadership, Jbara's ordeal does not fall within the category of human rights.


Jbara's story has barely attracted the attention of the international mainstream media. As far as many foreign journalists covering the Middle East are concerned, a Palestinian woman complaining about torture in a Palestinian prison is not newsworthy. Had she been detained by Israel, Jbara would have most likely made it to the front pages of the world's leading newspapers and magazines in a matter of minutes.


The PA regularly complains about human rights violations of Palestinians held in Israeli prison for security-related offenses. But when the PA's own security forces detain and torture a mother of three, Palestinian leaders are found elsewhere -- like at the helm of a UN bloc.
(full article online)

The UN, the "State of Palestine" and the Torture of Women


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## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince 11 million Palestinians that they don't exist.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> *THE 8TH ANNUAL HOUSTON PALESTINIAN FESTIVAL | 03-24-2018*
Click to expand...


How do you remove a people's rights?  First you deligitimize them as a pepole.  Then rest is easy.  History is full of examples. This isjust one more.


----------



## Sixties Fan

But Abbas will soon return to Ramallah to realize that the latest “victory” he scored in the international arena has not changed the reality on the ground. As he was speaking at the UN, Palestinians in the West Bank staged a partial strike and demonstrated against a new controversial social security law passed by Abbas’s government.

The widespread protests, which have been taking place for several weeks, are seen by some Palestinians as a revolt against Abbas and his government. And as he was speaking at the UN, Hamas and other Palestinian factions were continuing their attacks on Abbas, pointing out that he was no longer a legitimate and rightful president since his term in office expired 10 years ago. Abbas may have won the support of many in the international community, but he still needs to make a big effort to regain the confidence of many Palestinians.

(full article online)

ANALYSIS: At UN, another PR ‘victory’ for Abbas


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## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> But Abbas will soon return to Ramallah to realize that the latest “victory” he scored in the international arena has not changed the reality on the ground. As he was speaking at the UN, Palestinians in the West Bank staged a partial strike and demonstrated against a new controversial social security law passed by Abbas’s government.
> 
> The widespread protests, which have been taking place for several weeks, are seen by some Palestinians as a revolt against Abbas and his government. And as he was speaking at the UN, Hamas and other Palestinian factions were continuing their attacks on Abbas, pointing out that he was no longer a legitimate and rightful president since his term in office expired 10 years ago. Abbas may have won the support of many in the international community, but he still needs to make a big effort to regain the confidence of many Palestinians.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> ANALYSIS: At UN, another PR ‘victory’ for Abbas



It's comedy gold that the dictators representing Hamas would be taking digs at the dictator representing fatah. 

In the alternate reality of islamic terrorist mini-caliphates, there's not a lot of room for honor among welfare thieves.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince 11 million Palestinians that they don't exist.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> *THE 8TH ANNUAL HOUSTON PALESTINIAN FESTIVAL | 03-24-2018*
> 
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince the Israelis they don’t have the Right to Exist .
> Good luck with that.
Click to expand...


----------



## watchingfromafar

The Palestinians are indigenous to the land they live in.
The Jews ruled over Egypt until they were kicked out for murder. 
Now they are a lost tribe with no home they can cal there own doing.

Such is life -


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## Mindful

So, what are they? Palestinians, or Jordanians?


From wiki:

> The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War after the *British* mandate ended on that territory and Israel declared independent, were annexed to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 24 April 1950, and all the Arab residents were given Jordanian citizenship. <


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> So, what are they? Palestinians, or Jordanians?
> 
> 
> From wiki:
> 
> > The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War after the *British* mandate ended on that territory and Israel declared independent, were annexed to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 24 April 1950, and all the Arab residents were given Jordanian citizenship. <





Mindful said:


> The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War


Who did they conquer it from? They were not at war with Palestine.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what are they? Palestinians, or Jordanians?
> 
> 
> From wiki:
> 
> > The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War after the *British* mandate ended on that territory and Israel declared independent, were annexed to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 24 April 1950, and all the Arab residents were given Jordanian citizenship. <
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did they conquer it from? They were not at war with Palestine.
Click to expand...


I don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what are they? Palestinians, or Jordanians?
> 
> 
> From wiki:
> 
> > The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War after the *British* mandate ended on that territory and Israel declared independent, were annexed to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 24 April 1950, and all the Arab residents were given Jordanian citizenship. <
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank territories which were conquered by Jordan in 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did they conquer it from? They were not at war with Palestine.
Click to expand...

Palestine is a loosely defined geographic area. No one was at war with a geographic area, unless you're attempting to promote your usual "country of Pally'land" meme.


----------



## Hollie

Say it out loud, kuffar: "_*Peace Partners*_"

How lovely. Wake up and smell the unchanged seventh century political landscape that defines Islamism.. It's smellin' pretty ripe.



PMW Bulletins

PA: Peacebuilding "is treason"! - PMW Bulletins

PA: Peacebuilding "is treason"!

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Jan. 18, 2019 

*PA: Peacebuilding "is treason"!*







*Text upper right:* "Economic normalization is treason"

*PA TV attacked the opening of an Israeli supermarket in Atarot in Northern Jerusalem. The supermarket chain is known as a place where Palestinians and Israelis work together. The TV story included this picture which showed skulls in a shopping cart and text stated that shopping there, which is "economic normalization," "is treason"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

In its 2017 budget, the Palestinian Authority allocated 550 million shekels to pay salaries to terrorist prisoners and released terrorist prisoners. The salaries paid to these recipients, among them murderers, ranged from 1,400 shekels/month to 12,000 shekels/month. The beneficiaries of these payments are no more than a few tens of thousands of Palestinians.

In contrast, the PA spent only 605 million to provide financial assistance to needy Palestinian families. According to the PA budget, the 118,000 needy families received payments ranging between 750 to 1,800 shekels/quarter. 

Of the 605 million shekel expenditure, 515 million shekels was funded by the international community (165 million shekels by the European Union, and 350 million shekels by the World Bank). As such, the PA contributed only 90 million shekels of the 604 million shekel expenditure. 

In other words, while the PA spent 550 million shekels of its budget a year to incentivize and reward terrorists no more the a few tens of thousands of terrorists, it spends only 90 million shekels to support its needy population. In comparison, the amount it spent on the needy equals only 16% of the amount the PA prefers to spend on rewards for terror and murder!

(full article online)

PA spends 6 times more on terrorists than on its own needy - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

How does one define irony?

Hamas is reported to be the number two wealthiest islamic terrorist franchise and allegedly, Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians"  barely have clean water. 

Sounds a lot like whiny complaining / begging for more welfare dollars.


*'I feel like I live in a septic tank': Gaza's environmental meltdown*

'I feel like I live in a septic tank': Gaza's environmental meltdown

#Environment
As each day passes, the humanitarian and environmental situation in Gaza becomes ever more desperate







I think what's desperate is the Islamo-begging while Gaza is flush with luxury shopping malls and high end car dealers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine were some of the most sadistic terrorists at a time when sadism was all the rage in the killers who were attacking Israel. I just saw that the person who designed their logo was an UNWRA employee from Jerusalem called Vladimir Tamari

(full article online)

UNWRA employee created PFLP symbol – Harry's Place


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iranian Revolution: Arafat and the Ayatollahs


----------



## Sixties Fan

Whoever thinks that Linda Sarsour just accidentally happened to grow into the role of co-chair of the Women’s March, is undoubtedly naive.

Why Linda? I get that we need diversity and hence a Muslim woman. Fine.

But why Linda?

Why is there one woman whose name appears when it comes Black Lives Matters, when it comes to BDS, when it comes Women’s March and when it comes to being an advisory board member of “Dream Defenders” that is affiliated with terrorist organizations, such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

(full article online)

When (Thanks to Linda Sarsour) We Confuse Being Progressive With Being an Antisemite


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## Hollie

Try to keep the laughter to a minimum, kuffar.

Another collection of islamic terrorist welfare recipients (Yassir Arafat groupies) are parading around in the obligatory ski masks and making goofy pronouncements directed at the Israelis.

Arafat still has groupies. Who knew?

Dead Muhammuds walking... let's hope.



"Gaza-Based Fatah Splinter Group Performs Military Exercise, Including Simulated Kidnapping of Israeli Soldier"

_For the 54th anniversary of Fatah's founding, an Alkofiya TV (Gaza) reporter visited the Nidal Al-'Amoudi Battalion of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. The Nidal Al-‘Amoudi Battalion is a Gaza-based Fatah splinter group that claims to be the true followers of Yasser Arafat’s legacy. At the group's Yasser Arafat Base, the reporter interviewed the battalion's spokesman, Abu Muhammad, who said that the Al-Aqsa Brigades will persist on Yasser Arafat's path of liberating Palestine and eliminating Israel. _


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]

Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer



Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer[/QUOTE]
Poor dumbfuck. Women have the right to protect their children. That is their job.

https:--//twitter.com/qudsn/status/1086258591395385344


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
Click to expand...

Poor dumbfuck. Women have the right to protect their children. That is their job.

https:--//twitter.com/qudsn/status/1086258591395385344[/QUOTE]
No if their children have been brainwashed by Islam and are committing crimes.

One DOES NOT protect criminals, even if in one's family.

But....in Islam.....against non Muslims......Everything goes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dumbfuck. Women have the right to protect their children. That is their job.
> 
> https:--//twitter.com/qudsn/status/1086258591395385344
Click to expand...

No if their children have been brainwashed by Islam and are committing crimes.

One DOES NOT protect criminals, even if in one's family.

But....in Islam.....against non Muslims......Everything goes.[/QUOTE]
Big, brave men with guns picking on kids.

Animals.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dumbfuck. Women have the right to protect their children. That is their job.
> 
> https:--//twitter.com/qudsn/status/1086258591395385344
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No if their children have been brainwashed by Islam and are committing crimes.
> 
> One DOES NOT protect criminals, even if in one's family.
> 
> But....in Islam.....against non Muslims......Everything goes.
Click to expand...

Big, brave men with guns picking on kids.

Animals.[/QUOTE]
Animals is what the PLO and the PA and Fatah have turned their Arab populations into.

You are having delusions again.

These kids have been incited to kill Jews every minute, hour and day of their lives.

Animals is what Islam is, and has turned too many Muslims into.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dumbfuck. Women have the right to protect their children. That is their job.
> 
> https:--//twitter.com/qudsn/status/1086258591395385344
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No if their children have been brainwashed by Islam and are committing crimes.
> 
> One DOES NOT protect criminals, even if in one's family.
> 
> But....in Islam.....against non Muslims......Everything goes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Big, brave men with guns picking on kids.
> 
> Animals.
Click to expand...

Animals is what the PLO and the PA and Fatah have turned their Arab populations into.

You are having delusions again.

These kids have been incited to kill Jews every minute, hour and day of their lives.

Animals is what Islam is, and has turned too many Muslims into.[/QUOTE]
Pfffft, Israeli talking points.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ By Allah, they are all innocent victims of these horrible Zionists !!!!   Notice the ones with the cameras    Shoving, pushing......what country would not have arrested them all or worse? ]
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Palestinian Arab women slap IDF officer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dumbfuck. Women have the right to protect their children. That is their job.
> 
> https:--//twitter.com/qudsn/status/1086258591395385344
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No if their children have been brainwashed by Islam and are committing crimes.
> 
> One DOES NOT protect criminals, even if in one's family.
> 
> But....in Islam.....against non Muslims......Everything goes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Big, brave men with guns picking on kids.
> 
> Animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Animals is what the PLO and the PA and Fatah have turned their Arab populations into.
> 
> You are having delusions again.
> 
> These kids have been incited to kill Jews every minute, hour and day of their lives.
> 
> Animals is what Islam is, and has turned too many Muslims into.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, Israeli talking points. [/QUOTE]
PFFFFT !!!!

Tinmore's inability to discuss ANYTHING !!!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas and the Palestinian leadership are clearly trying to drag Israel into a religious conflict with all Muslims, not only Palestinians. The Temple Mount has become their favorite platform for disseminating blood libels....


If anyone is defiling the sanctity of the holy site, it is Abbas and his representatives in the West Bank.


Were Israel to stop a Palestinian from entering a holy site because of his clothing, the foreign reporters based in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv would have rushed to the scene to interview the man and tell the world that Israel is violating freedom of worship. This is yet another example of how the media gives the Palestinians a pass and allows them to continue their vicious incitement against Israel.


(full article online)

Palestinians' Anti-Semitic Stereotyping of Jews


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas and the Palestinian leadership are clearly trying to drag Israel into a religious conflict with all Muslims, not only Palestinians. The Temple Mount has become their favorite platform for disseminating blood libels...





Of course.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There will be a tour of historical sites including Joseph’s Tomb, Tel Balata (also known as the Biblical Shechem), and other sites.

The statement claimed that “this invasion is considered the largest and most dangerous in six years and takes place in a sensitive period and areas deep in the city of Shechem, which settlers have never entered with such force."

They also refer to the head of the Samaria Regional Council as "the head of the West Bank Settlers’ Council".

Shechem is frequently incorrectly referred to as "Nablus"; the Romans had renamed the Jewish city "Naples" and the Arabs, having trouble pronouncing the letter "p", refer to the city until this day as "Nablus".

(full article online)

PA warns of 'invasion by West Bank Council head'


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ No Santa, there is no Palestine Nation or people, there is ONLY the ARAB NATION and PEOPLE, as told by Arabs themselves.....Again and Again.....and Again]


*Fatah official: "Normalization with the Zionist entity is the greatest danger to our Arab nation"*

*The Palestinian Journalists' Syndicate called on all media outlets "to settle accounts with anyone who has participated in a visit to and any activity of normalization with the occupying entity"*

*Fatah official repeated PA libel that Israel was established to steal the resources of the Arab region: "The Palestinian people, through its struggle, has always constituted an impregnable wall against the colonialist Zionist project that wants to take over the resources of the Arab peoples, and against the spread of Zionism towards the Arab region"*

*Op-ed in official PA daily: "Western colonialism in general, and British colonialism in particular - in cooperation with the Zionist movement, and later with its physical base, the colonialist State of Israel - attempted... to erase the Palestinian identity, history, and existence, and to establish the rogue state [Israel]. This was in order to serve the goals of the capitalist West at the expense of the Jews, who were misled in the name of religion"*

(full article online)

Fatah and PA journalists forbid peace-building - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Caroline Glick: The Palestinians Are a Superpower at the UN But a Weak Mess in Reality | Breitbart


----------



## watchingfromafar

P F Tinmore said:


> These kids have been incited to kill Jews every minute, hour and day of their lives.
> 
> Animals is what Islam is, and has turned too many Muslims into



*P F Tinmor, you *speak of the Palestinians as “animals” while you forget or refuse to see the truth. If an IDF sniper shot your child in the dead while this child sat a UN sponsored school desk; what would you; *P F Tinmor*;  do?

*Google "IDF shooting children"*

Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
*https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*

 United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 *10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head* by Israeli fire *while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary*

Girl's School On June 1 this year *two ten-year old children* in UNRWA's

Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School  in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank

In March 2003
*12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head* by a bullet fired *Two 10 year-old schoolchildren* were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an *Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*
Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room. (this was an assassination of specific children by the IDF)
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

*Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
*Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*

*2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children* in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.

The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
*2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade*

*12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service

Thu., October 28, 2004
*IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
*http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*

* UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP

Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
* An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

 Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

 T*hree-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

*Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
September 8, 2003
The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm

 Haneen, who was *eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
 28 July 2003
 She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other*.
She was still in my arms and she died."
'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'

*This boy* was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and *shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy  fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.*
Tuesday December 23, 2003
Israel Army action breeds fresh hatred

* Israel Baby is born then dies*
September 11, 2003
 Birth and death at the checkpoint
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html

* Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy*
Siege off Nablus
January, 2004
*15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house.* The sniper bulet hit Amjad in the back.  He died on his way to the hospital. The *second is  Amer Kathym Arafat who was also shot* in the back by a sniper bullet. The *third is Rouhi Hazem Shouman, 25, who was also shot in the* back by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

* Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head *while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

15 year old boy &  Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all *shot in the back by a sniper.*
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

 An *eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops* in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

*IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets*  and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
 Tue., October 05, 2004
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

*“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges*

_*P F Tinmor*_;  You speak of the Palestinians as “animals” while you forget or refuse to see the truth. If an IDF sniper shot your child in the dead while this child sat a UN sponsored school desk; P F Tinmor;  I ask again----*P F Tinmor, what would you; do?

-*


----------



## P F Tinmore

watchingfromafar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These kids have been incited to kill Jews every minute, hour and day of their lives.
> 
> Animals is what Islam is, and has turned too many Muslims into
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *P F Tinmor, you *speak of the Palestinians as “animals” while you forget or refuse to see the truth. If an IDF sniper shot your child in the dead while this child sat a UN sponsored school desk; what would you; *P F Tinmor*;  do?
> 
> *Google "IDF shooting children"*
> 
> Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
> *https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*
> 
> United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 *10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head* by Israeli fire *while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary*
> 
> Girl's School On June 1 this year *two ten-year old children* in UNRWA's
> 
> Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School  in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank
> 
> In March 2003
> *12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head* by a bullet fired *Two 10 year-old schoolchildren* were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an *Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*
> Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room. (this was an assassination of specific children by the IDF)
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html
> 
> *Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
> Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
> *Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
> 
> *2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
> Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children* in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.
> 
> The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
> *2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade*
> 
> *12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
> Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
> A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes
> 
> Gaza girl said killed
> By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
> and Haaretz Service
> 
> Thu., October 28, 2004
> *IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
> *http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*
> 
> * UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
> By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
> 
> Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
> * An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html
> 
> Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
> http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/
> 
> T*hree-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
> 5 June 2004
> The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails
> 
> *An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
> Lend me your swords
> 
> *Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
> September 8, 2003
> The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm
> 
> Haneen, who was *eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
> 28 July 2003
> She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
> 'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other*.
> She was still in my arms and she died."
> 'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'
> 
> *This boy* was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and *shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy  fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.*
> Tuesday December 23, 2003
> Israel Army action breeds fresh hatred
> 
> * Israel Baby is born then dies*
> September 11, 2003
> Birth and death at the checkpoint
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html
> 
> * Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy*
> Siege off Nablus
> January, 2004
> *15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house.* The sniper bulet hit Amjad in the back.  He died on his way to the hospital. The *second is  Amer Kathym Arafat who was also shot* in the back by a sniper bullet. The *third is Rouhi Hazem Shouman, 25, who was also shot in the* back by a sniper.
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm
> 
> * Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head *while buying candy with her friends.
> 5 June 2004
> The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails
> 
> 15 year old boy &  Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all *shot in the back by a sniper.*
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm
> 
> An *eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops* in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
> Lend me your swords
> 
> *IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets*  and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
> Tue., October 05, 2004
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html
> 
> *“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges*
> 
> _*P F Tinmor*_;  You speak of the Palestinians as “animals” while you forget or refuse to see the truth. If an IDF sniper shot your child in the dead while this child sat a UN sponsored school desk; P F Tinmor;  I ask again----*P F Tinmor, what would you; do?
> 
> -*
Click to expand...

Read that post more closely. The reply function stumbled on that quote. That is not my quote.


----------



## watchingfromafar

P F Tinmore said:


> Read that post more closely. The reply function stumbled on that quote. That is not my quote.



My ignorance is showing once again.

My bad--- please forgive me -


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> what would you do?




Its the wrong question.  The right question is:  What should you do?

And the answer is that one should first consider the context.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The event was to have included “symbols of Palestinian sovereignty such as the playing of the Palestinian Authority national anthem, political speeches in the name of the Palestinian Authority and participation of senior Palestinians,” the statement said.

Among those scheduled to attend were PA Health Minister Jawad Awwad and the PA minister in charge of Jerusalem affairs, Adnan Husseini.

Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan speaks at a ceremony for a new municipal police station in Beit Shemesh, January 7, 2019. (Yaakov Lederman/Flash90)
The ministry statement noted that the ongoing activities of the hospital would not be affected by the ban.

Referring to the 1994 Cairo Agreement that laid out the framework of Palestinian autonomy, Erdan’s ministry said the terms forbid the PA “from opening or operating a representative office or to hold gatherings of activities within the State of Israel, and empowers the public security minister to ban such events.”

(full article online)

Israel puts kibosh on PA event at East Jerusalem hospital


----------



## Sixties Fan

Do 23.2% have PTSD? No, that survey was only of adolescents who were already mental health patients. Even the study that was quoted says "The findings in the below studies need to be considered with caution due to weaknesses in study design, such as the use of self-developed and unverified questionnaires and measurement tools that are in need of further validation."

Moreover, the questionnaires themselves used in that study point to the idea that students who respond are lying. For example, 35% of youths surveyed claimed that they had experienced Israelis searching their house in the previous year, during the height of the intifada.

A back of the envelope calculation, assuming six people per household, would indicate that the IDF searched over 100,000 homes in a single year.

That is physically impossible.

The other findings are equally ludicrous: 15% reported being beaten in the previous year, 6% said they were used as human shields, 14% said their houses were taken over by Israeli soldiers while they were inside. Again, none of this makes sense even at the height of the violence. But it is reported as fact and is the basis on conclusions of how Palestinian youths are traumatized.

It is more likely that many Palestinians are conditioned to respond to surveys the way they want the world to think, not what really happened.

The rest of the Quartz article is an interview with a Palestinian psychiatrist who claims that things are actually worse than the survey says - that Palestinians are so traumatized that you cannot claim they have PTSD because their trauma is ongoing, there is nothing "post" about it. And she is talking about today, not during a wave of terror, when the only time most Palestinians see an Israeli soldier is when they go through checkpoints. The doctor uses Gaza as an example, but these surveys were all done in the West Bank.

The honor/shame dynamic is not considered in these surveys and articles. "Experts" and people who take surveys want to give an impression more than they want to tell the truth, because the truth is often shameful but blaming all problems on Israel is honorable.

(full article online)

Is Palestinian mental health really this bad? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.





This support for terror was across the board:

 Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).

(full article online)

Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These kids have been incited to kill Jews every minute, hour and day of their lives.
> 
> Animals is what Islam is, and has turned too many Muslims into
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *P F Tinmor, you *speak of the Palestinians as “animals” while you forget or refuse to see the truth. If an IDF sniper shot your child in the dead while this child sat a UN sponsored school desk; what would you; *P F Tinmor*;  do?
> 
> *Google "IDF shooting children"*
> 
> Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
> *https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*
> 
> United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 *10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head* by Israeli fire *while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary*
> 
> Girl's School On June 1 this year *two ten-year old children* in UNRWA's
> 
> Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School  in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank
> 
> In March 2003
> *12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head* by a bullet fired *Two 10 year-old schoolchildren* were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an *Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*
> Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room. (this was an assassination of specific children by the IDF)
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html
> 
> *Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
> Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
> *Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
> 
> *2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
> Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children* in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.
> 
> The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
> *2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade*
> 
> *12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
> Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
> A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes
> 
> Gaza girl said killed
> By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
> and Haaretz Service
> 
> Thu., October 28, 2004
> *IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
> *http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*
> 
> * UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
> By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
> 
> Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
> * An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html
> 
> Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
> http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/
> 
> T*hree-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
> 5 June 2004
> The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails
> 
> *An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
> Lend me your swords
> 
> *Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
> September 8, 2003
> The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm
> 
> Haneen, who was *eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
> 28 July 2003
> She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
> 'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other*.
> She was still in my arms and she died."
> 'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'
> 
> *This boy* was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and *shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy  fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.*
> Tuesday December 23, 2003
> Israel Army action breeds fresh hatred
> 
> * Israel Baby is born then dies*
> September 11, 2003
> Birth and death at the checkpoint
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html
> 
> * Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy*
> Siege off Nablus
> January, 2004
> *15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house.* The sniper bulet hit Amjad in the back.  He died on his way to the hospital. The *second is  Amer Kathym Arafat who was also shot* in the back by a sniper bullet. The *third is Rouhi Hazem Shouman, 25, who was also shot in the* back by a sniper.
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm
> 
> * Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head *while buying candy with her friends.
> 5 June 2004
> The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails
> 
> 15 year old boy &  Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all *shot in the back by a sniper.*
> http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm
> 
> An *eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops* in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
> Lend me your swords
> 
> *IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets*  and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
> Tue., October 05, 2004
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html
> 
> *“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges*
> 
> _*P F Tinmor*_;  You speak of the Palestinians as “animals” while you forget or refuse to see the truth. If an IDF sniper shot your child in the dead while this child sat a UN sponsored school desk; P F Tinmor;  I ask again----*P F Tinmor, what would you; do?
> 
> -*
Click to expand...


It’s a start !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
Click to expand...


Why don't you ask someone from the closest First Nation to your house?


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA: Israel and Hamas planning to assassinate Abbas - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
Click to expand...

Yes


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> Its the wrong question. The right question is: What should you do?



I am asking you, _*Shusha*_, if an IDF sniper shot your child in the head while this child sat at a UN sponsored school desk-- WHAT WOULD YOU--*Shusha *do-?
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

*International law and Israeli settlements*

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The international community considers the *establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal* under international law

Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a *violation of international law*. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has *declared the settlements illegal*[15] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[16] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.

The majority of legal scholars hold the *settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]

*International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia*

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Six-Month Report on Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem*

In the first half of 2018 (January-June) advancement of housing units continued at a higher level than in the previous reporting period (July-December 2017). *More than 6,000 housing units in the occupied West Bank including East Jerusalem were advanced in different stages of the planning and implementation process.* This development will, 
over several years, enable potentially *more than 27,000[1] Israeli settlers to move to 
the Occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem.*

More than 2,100 housing units (of the 6,000 units) are new plans, i.e. they have not been introduced in the planning circuit in the years before 2018.

An important development during the reporting period was the promotion of two plans that would establish two entirely new settlements (Zayit Ra’anan and Brosh) by authorising illegal outposts and the establishment of a new settlement near Hebron, north of the settlement of Kiryat Arba (based on a plan approved in 1988).

Another worrying development was the continued construction of and the approval of funds for large scale road infrastructure projects in the occupied West Bank that improves the connectivity of settlements to Israel.

*There are currently approximately 215,000 Israelis living in East Jerusalem while the settler population in Area C in the occupied West Bank, excluding East Jerusalem, is some 399,300. This brings the settler population to approximately 600,000 Israeli settlers in 143 locations in the West Bank (132) including East Jerusalem (11)[2].*

*According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics 4.6% of the total Israeli population resides today in the Occupied West Bank excluding East Jerusalem.*
https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/EUSETTLERPT_170718.pdf

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Snipers ordered to shoot children, Israeli general confirms*

22 April 2018
An Israeli general has confirmed that when snipers stationed along Israel’s boundary with Gaza shoot at children, they are doing so deliberately, under clear and specific orders.

In a radio interview, Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel describes how a sniper identifies the “small body” of a child and is given authorization to shoot.

Fogel’s statements could be used as evidence of intent if Israeli leaders are ever tried for war crimes at the International Criminal Court.

On Friday, an Israeli sniper shot dead 14-year-old Muhammad Ibrahim Ayyoub.

The boy, shot in the head east of Jabaliya, was the fourth child among the more than 30 Palestinians killed during the Great March of Return rallies that began in Gaza on 30 March.

More than 1,600 other Palestinians have been shot with live ammunition that has caused what doctors are calling “horrific injuries” likely to leave many of them with permanent disabilities.
Snipers ordered to shoot children, Israeli general confirms

Below is the sniper who murdered that child. (note: in the link you can see a photo of the child)






Defense for Children on Twitter


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the wrong question. The right question is: What should you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking you, _*Shusha*_, if an IDF sniper shot your child in the head while this child sat at a UN sponsored school desk-- WHAT WOULD YOU--*Shusha *do-?
> -
Click to expand...


Again, its a false question, since no IDF snipers target schoolchildren sitting at their desks.****

I will tell you that there is no chance that *Shusha* would permit any of her children anywhere near a battle zone with the idea of "ripping the hearts out of Jews".  And if any of my children disobeyed me and went anyways, I'd suggest it was their own damn fault if they got shot.  Theirs and the other idiots who claim "peaceful protests" while bringing weapons and trying to break through a border while screaming threats.

I'd ask you the same question.  What would you do if a terrorist drove by and shot you in the pregnant belly, killing your baby?  Would you fight?  Would you resist?  Would you call for "peaceful protests"?

The deeper question you are really asking here is whether or not people should be permitted to use violence to achieve their goals.  My answer?  Yes.  IF those goals are self-defense and within what is permitted by law.  That is exactly what Israel is doing.  And I support her defensive actions fully and without reservation.  


****And I'd just like to point out that there are very real injustices happening, why do you feel the need to invent one?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over the past week there have been a number of protests in West Bank Arab towns over a new social security law.

Late last week the Palestinian Authority Minister of Local Government, Hussein al-A'arj, shocked all Palestinians by referring to the leaders of the protests in Hebron as being "settlers from Kiryat Arba."

I have never seen such anger in Palestinian Arab media over an insult. Apparently you can call someone's mother a whore before you can call someone a "settler."

Fatah in Hebron demanded that al-A'arj be fired and said he would not be allowed into the city. Prime minister Rami Hamdallah ordered an investigation.

(full article online)

Palestinian minister in trouble for calling protesters the worst name possible: "Settlers" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> *International law and Israeli settlements*
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The international community considers the *establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal* under international law
> 
> Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a *violation of international law*. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has *declared the settlements illegal*[15] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[16] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
> 
> The majority of legal scholars hold the *settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia*
> 
> -



Israel does not build on any land over which it does not have sovereignty.  It is ridiculous to claim that a sovereign nation building on its own sovereign territory is a violation of international law.  And its entirely shocking how easily people are fooled by this silliness.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> *Snipers ordered to shoot children, Israeli general confirms*
> 
> 22 April 2018
> An Israeli general has confirmed that when snipers stationed along Israel’s boundary with Gaza shoot at children, they are doing so deliberately, under clear and specific orders.
> 
> In a radio interview, Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel describes how a sniper identifies the “small body” of a child and is given authorization to shoot.
> 
> Fogel’s statements could be used as evidence of intent if Israeli leaders are ever tried for war crimes at the International Criminal Court.
> 
> On Friday, an Israeli sniper shot dead 14-year-old Muhammad Ibrahim Ayyoub.
> 
> The boy, shot in the head east of Jabaliya, was the fourth child among the more than 30 Palestinians killed during the Great March of Return rallies that began in Gaza on 30 March.
> 
> More than 1,600 other Palestinians have been shot with live ammunition that has caused what doctors are calling “horrific injuries” likely to leave many of them with permanent disabilities.
> Snipers ordered to shoot children, Israeli general confirms
> 
> Below is the sniper who murdered that child. (note: in the link you can see a photo of the child)
> 
> View attachment 241470
> 
> Defense for Children on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
Click to expand...

So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?

Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the wrong question. The right question is: What should you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking you, _*Shusha*_, if an IDF sniper shot your child in the head while this child sat at a UN sponsored school desk-- WHAT WOULD YOU--*Shusha *do-?
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, its a false question, since no IDF snipers target schoolchildren sitting at their desks.****
> 
> I will tell you that there is no chance that *Shusha* would permit any of her children anywhere near a battle zone with the idea of "ripping the hearts out of Jews".  And if any of my children disobeyed me and went anyways, I'd suggest it was their own damn fault if they got shot.  Theirs and the other idiots who claim "peaceful protests" while bringing weapons and trying to break through a border while screaming threats.
> 
> I'd ask you the same question.  What would you do if a terrorist drove by and shot you in the pregnant belly, killing your baby?  Would you fight?  Would you resist?  Would you call for "peaceful protests"?
> 
> The deeper question you are really asking here is whether or not people should be permitted to use violence to achieve their goals.  My answer?  Yes.  IF those goals are self-defense and within what is permitted by law.  That is exactly what Israel is doing.  And I support her defensive actions fully and without reservation.
> 
> 
> ****And I'd just like to point out that there are very real injustices happening, why do you feel the need to invent one?
Click to expand...

Israel doesn't target children.

Palestinian children killed from 2000 to 2014. - *1656*

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Israel is just the oops capital of the world.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
Click to expand...


No one forced the Arabs to murder, rape, loot and expel the Palestinian Jews from all of their holy cities.

If they had a slightest trace of gray matter in their heads they support Israel and prosper,
but hey, not murdering Jews was too much to ask...

Their choice - their defeat.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?



Not at all.  They have to:

1.  Accept the self-determination and sovereignty of the Jewish Palestinians.
2.  Negotiate peace and good relations with her neighbors.
3.  Develop the ability to join the global community of nations by following the steps to sovereign independence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the wrong question. The right question is: What should you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking you, _*Shusha*_, if an IDF sniper shot your child in the head while this child sat at a UN sponsored school desk-- WHAT WOULD YOU--*Shusha *do-?
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, its a false question, since no IDF snipers target schoolchildren sitting at their desks.****
> 
> I will tell you that there is no chance that *Shusha* would permit any of her children anywhere near a battle zone with the idea of "ripping the hearts out of Jews".  And if any of my children disobeyed me and went anyways, I'd suggest it was their own damn fault if they got shot.  Theirs and the other idiots who claim "peaceful protests" while bringing weapons and trying to break through a border while screaming threats.
> 
> I'd ask you the same question.  What would you do if a terrorist drove by and shot you in the pregnant belly, killing your baby?  Would you fight?  Would you resist?  Would you call for "peaceful protests"?
> 
> The deeper question you are really asking here is whether or not people should be permitted to use violence to achieve their goals.  My answer?  Yes.  IF those goals are self-defense and within what is permitted by law.  That is exactly what Israel is doing.  And I support her defensive actions fully and without reservation.
> 
> 
> ****And I'd just like to point out that there are very real injustices happening, why do you feel the need to invent one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel doesn't target children.
> 
> Palestinian children killed from 2000 to 2014. - *1656*
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Israel is just the oops capital of the world.
Click to expand...


The cognitive dissonance is astonishing.  You want on the one hand for all Israeli (read: Jews) citizens to be considered combatants and therefore permissible to murder while simultaneously declaring the murder of citizens to be abhorrent.  Which is it man?  Sure sounds like you are justifying the murder of Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one forced the Arabs to murder, rape, loot and expel the Palestinian Jews from all of their holy cities.
> 
> If they had a slightest trace of gray matter in their heads they support Israel and prosper,
> but hey, not murdering Jews was too much to ask...
> 
> Their choice - their defeat.
Click to expand...

Dumb!


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
Click to expand...

Blame the government, attack the military, but don’t murder civilians because of their government’s policies.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one forced the Arabs to murder, rape, loot and expel the Palestinian Jews from all of their holy cities.
> 
> If they had a slightest trace of gray matter in their heads they support Israel and prosper,
> but hey, not murdering Jews was too much to ask...
> 
> Their choice - their defeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dumb!
Click to expand...


You meant Your Hitler mustache?

Defeat is not dumb, however, Arabs raising swastika on the even of Holocaust Remembrance Day,
then whining about getting shot by Israelis - is the epitome of masochism and mental degeneracy.


----------



## rylah

*Phantom Nation: Inventing the "Palestinians" as the Obstacle to Peace*


----------



## Coyote

First step: strip away their identity.  Make them a non-people. Label them a fake people.  Then it is much easier to deny them rights.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements*
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The international community considers the *establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal* under international law
> 
> Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a *violation of international law*. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has *declared the settlements illegal*[15] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[16] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
> 
> The majority of legal scholars hold the *settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia*
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not build on any land over which it does not have sovereignty.  It is ridiculous to claim that a sovereign nation building on its own sovereign territory is a violation of international law.  And its entirely shocking how easily people are fooled by this silliness.
Click to expand...

It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.


Israel says a West Bank outpost can be legalized if land was seized in good faith

Israel knowingly gave private Palestinian land to West Bank outpost


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> First step: strip away their identity.  Make them a non-people. Label them a fake people.  Then it is much easier to deny them rights.



Arabs and Jews have rights under international law, Palestinians don't.
Keeping the Palestinian politcs running prevents them from more rights than provides.
Look at the refugee camps in every Arab country where they got stuck for the mere purpose of perpetuating the false identity to generate billions of $$.

Palestinians - is not a nation, it's a political weapon to erase the only non-Muslim country in the middle east. No other purpose or strategy, it's devastating the Arab world and preventing from developing  mutual respect in the region, Palestinian politics is mere role-playing, and it's stuck in the previous century with no alternatives but 2 extremes (Caliphate or Imperialist socialism), which prevents further any development. Abandon that ship for Your children, before Arab countries totally abandon You to Iran. You are stuck - the world moves on, the Arab world moves on.

You want more of the same war, corruption and backwardness - keep on the Palestinian farce,
 just don't pretend to care about rights and stop complaining.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First step: strip away their identity.  Make them a non-people. Label them a fake people.  Then it is much easier to deny them rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs and Jews have rights under international law, Palestinians don't.
> Keeping the Palestinian politcs running prevents them from more rights than provides.
> Look at the refugee camps in every Arab country where they got stuck for the mere purpose of perpetuating the false identity to generate billions of $$.
> 
> You want more of the same corruption and backwardness - keep on the Palestinian farce,
> just don't pretend to care about rights and stop complaining.
Click to expand...


They are a people. You don’t get to decide whether or not they are.  Recognizing that, giving them that minimal bit of respect and identity in no way affects the issues you bring up.  To you they are “just Arabs”. To themselves they are Palestinians.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements*
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The international community considers the *establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal* under international law
> 
> Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a *violation of international law*. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has *declared the settlements illegal*[15] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[16] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
> 
> The majority of legal scholars hold the *settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia*
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not build on any land over which it does not have sovereignty.  It is ridiculous to claim that a sovereign nation building on its own sovereign territory is a violation of international law.  And its entirely shocking how easily people are fooled by this silliness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.
> 
> 
> Israel says a West Bank outpost can be legalized if land was seized in good faith
> 
> Israel knowingly gave private Palestinian land to West Bank outpost
Click to expand...


Haaretz wouldn't know private land if it hit them on the head.
And if they know there was no proof of ownership they still lie about it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blame the government, attack the military, but don’t murder civilians because of their government’s policies.
Click to expand...

Israel kills civilians all the time.

Why the double standard?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blame the government, attack the military, but don’t murder civilians because of their government’s policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills civilians all the time.
> 
> Why the double standard?
Click to expand...


What double standard?  I oppose targeting and killing civilians regardless of who does it.  Do you?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last PCPSR survey of Palestinians showed that they support a return to an armed intifada that would target Jewish civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This support for terror was across the board:
> 
> Support for an armed intifada is higher in the Gaza Strip (60%) than in the West Bank (51%), among the youth between the ages of 18 and 22 years (65%) compared to those whose age is 50 years or higher (55%), among holders of BA degree (55%) compared to the illiterates (44%), among men (57%) compared to women (52%), among students (63%) compared to laborers (47%), among the religious (62%) compared to the somewhat religious (49%), among those who oppose the peace process (81%) compared to those who support the peace process (41%), and among supporters of Hamas (76%) compared to supporters of Fatah (36%).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Most Palestinians support terror. Good luck finding that fact in the @NYTimes (Poster) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blame the government, attack the military, but don’t murder civilians because of their government’s policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills civilians all the time.
> 
> Why the double standard?
Click to expand...


Police kills civilians all the time.
Why don't You go stab a policeman's wife,
why not... double standard?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are illegal settlers living on stolen land "innocent" civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Israel can steal, destroy, bomb, and shoot while the Palestinians have to sit on their hands?
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It is on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blame the government, attack the military, but don’t murder civilians because of their government’s policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills civilians all the time.
> 
> Why the double standard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What double standard?  I oppose targeting and killing civilians regardless of who does it.  Do you?
Click to expand...

You are missing my point.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.



Sorry, the articles are paywalled.  But, I don't need to read them.  Rylah is correct.  The problem being that "privately owned land" is a term which is widely thrown around, but is nothing more than smokescreens and wishful thinking.  Its a legally meaningless term. And the land laws are complicated. There is very little land which is actually mulk land (privately owned).  Most of Deir Jarir is mewat land (uncultivable) and therefore belongs to the State.  The rest is largely miri land (land owned by the State but leased to the local village as long as that land is used for cultivation).

In other words, "but my father and his grandfather used to take the goats down that hill to graze and no one noticed or cared" does NOT make it "privately owned land".


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements*
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The international community considers the *establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal* under international law
> 
> Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a *violation of international law*. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has *declared the settlements illegal*[15] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[16] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
> 
> The majority of legal scholars hold the *settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia*
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not build on any land over which it does not have sovereignty.  It is ridiculous to claim that a sovereign nation building on its own sovereign territory is a violation of international law.  And its entirely shocking how easily people are fooled by this silliness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.
> 
> 
> Israel says a West Bank outpost can be legalized if land was seized in good faith
> 
> Israel knowingly gave private Palestinian land to West Bank outpost
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haaretz wouldn't know private land if it hit them on the head.
> And if they know there was no proof of ownership they still lie about it.
Click to expand...

And you would support the settlers claims if it was on private land.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the articles are paywalled.  But, I don't need to read them.  Rylah is correct.  The problem being that "privately owned land" is a term which is widely thrown around, but is nothing more than smokescreens and wishful thinking.  Its a legally meaningless term. And the land laws are complicated. There is very little land which is actually mulk land (privately owned).  Most of Deir Jarir is mewat land (uncultivable) and therefore belongs to the State.  The rest is largely miri land (land owned by the State but leased to the local village as long as that land is used for cultivation).
> 
> In other words, "but my father and his grandfather used to take the goats down that hill to graze and no one noticed or cared" does NOT make it "privately owned land".
Click to expand...

There seem to be plenty of cases where even the courts have found it to be private land.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> There seem to be plenty of cases where even the courts have found it to be private land.



I don't know how you can possibly discern that from what you can learn on google.  Because the media and the Palestinians tend to label it all as "privately owned land".  When its not.  It is very, very rare to find news articles which outline the actual legal defenses and documentation of the parties involved.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements*
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The international community considers the *establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal* under international law
> 
> Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a *violation of international law*. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has *declared the settlements illegal*[15] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[16] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
> 
> The majority of legal scholars hold the *settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
> 
> *International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia*
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not build on any land over which it does not have sovereignty.  It is ridiculous to claim that a sovereign nation building on its own sovereign territory is a violation of international law.  And its entirely shocking how easily people are fooled by this silliness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.
> 
> 
> Israel says a West Bank outpost can be legalized if land was seized in good faith
> 
> Israel knowingly gave private Palestinian land to West Bank outpost
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haaretz wouldn't know private land if it hit them on the head.
> And if they know there was no proof of ownership they still lie about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you would support the settlers claims if it was on private land.
Click to expand...


Are all Your arguments based on baseless speculation and projections?
You believe the stories for which You pay Haaretz to invent, and care not about facts.

I suggest You read what judge Salim Joubran wrote.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There seem to be plenty of cases where even the courts have found it to be private land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how you can possibly discern that from what you can learn on google.  Because the media and the Palestinians tend to label it all as "privately owned land".  When its not.  It is very, very rare to find news articles which outline the actual legal defenses and documentation of the parties involved.
Click to expand...


And the settlers all label it as theirs.


----------



## rylah

*BLOOD LIBEL: THE MYTH OF ‘PRIVATE PALESTINIAN LAND’*
*Because land on which most settlements are built is not agriculturally useful, Arabs did not claim ownership until recently.*

Promoted by Arab propagandists and their supporters, politicians, academics, media and anti-Israel NGOs, this theory has also been adopted by Israelis, including prominent judicial figures who give it legitimacy. A poisoned narrative based on ignorance and/or misunderstanding, it is a lie.

Based on titles and deeds, land that is registered becomes private property. But what if there are no documents to prove ownership? 

Land that Arabs claim as their private property was not purchased; it was state-owned land that was either given away by the sovereign power during the Ottoman, British and Jordanian occupations or was encroached and developed. Arab claims based on gifts and alleged agricultural use are not property deeds. How, then, did this confusion about “private Palestinian land” come about? 

Using ownerless, uninhabited land is a universally recognized method for claiming it, unless contested. Until the modern period, land registration, especially in sparsely populated areas like the Middle East, Africa and North Africa was not widely practiced.

With the rise of nation-states and the development of bureaucracies this changed.

According to international agreements such as the San Remo Accord (1920) and the League of Nations (1922), the Mandate for Palestine was intended as a “Jewish National Home.” This anchors the rights of the Jewish people and Israeli sovereignty in law. It has never been superseded.

Administering the Mandate, Britain organized land surveys in Palestine, primarily to collect taxes and create an orderly system of land ownership and transfer. According to Dr. Dov Gavish, who wrote the only extensive study of this topic, Survey of Palestine, 1920-1948 (2005), maps were drawn based on where inhabitants were found and on verbal claims, usually by local mukhtars (chiefs) and sheikhs, not on documents or land registration.

Based on aerial photos and evidence of cultivation, villages were arbitrarily divided into 60-hectare (about 148-acre) blocks, which were then sub-divided among local peasants. Highly inaccurate, these fiscal maps nevertheless became the basis for taxation. They did not and do not reflect legal ownership.

As Gavish notes, the registration process lacked legal procedures for determining proper (actual) ownership, the investigators often had little professional training, surveyors who drew boundaries relied on inaccurate methods (such as vague geographical markers), and were hampered by constant Arab violence.

Maps held by Turkish and Jordanian governments are unavailable, and many maps held by the British Mandatory government were accidentally destroyed. The Israeli Civil (Military) Administration also has aerial maps which are used to determine land use, and surveys which are not necessarily reliable or accurate documentations of private ownership.

These questionable maps and documents, however, are used to sanction Arab claims and charge Jews with stealing “private Palestinian land.” Although these lands could have been registered, most were not. Moreover, land which was not used, or not passed on by inheritance reverts to the original owner, the state, by law.

Most of what is called “private Palestinian land” is claimed – and some registered – based on policies that legitimized squatting after the fact and by counting land as “owned” when in fact it had been leased, or simply used.

During the Mandate period, most of the land that was registered by individuals was called “Miri.” Leased, not privately owned, “Miri” land remained property of the state.

Although land that was not used for 10 years should have reverted to the state, large areas of such unused land remained under local Arab control.

Another category of ownerless land, called “waste land” (“Mewat”), is known throughout the Middle East and recognized in international law. Dr.Ya’akov Meron’s authoritative article, “Waste Land (Mewat) in Judea and Samaria,” (Boston College Int’l & Comparative Law Review, 1981) notes that this land was not included in state land and could be claimed by whoever used it, Jews or Arabs.

Because land on which most settlements are built is not agriculturally useful, Arabs did not claim ownership until recently, when anti-settlement NGOs asserted that these lands belonged to Arabs, individually and/or collectively based on hearsay, maps and documents that are grossly inaccurate and often false.

Assertions by NGOs and Arabs that land is privately owned, however, even when approved by politically motivated government and judicial officials, including the State Prosecutor’s Office and Civil Administration, are not necessarily true. Although these claims may be blindly accepted by the High Court, they are not valid until they have been examined and authenticated by lower courts. This has led to much confusion about what constitutes “private Palestinian land.”

Accusing Israeli Jews of “stealing private Palestinian land,” condemning “settlements” as “illegal,” “violations of international law” and “the occupation” are powerful weapons in the war to demonize and delegitimize Israel.

Commonly accepted and taken for granted, these charges are used to justify Arab terrorism (“resistance”) and subvert Israel’s moral right to exist. Such allegations are inaccurate and feed anti-Israel propaganda. Who needs them?

*Blood libel: The myth of ‘private Palestinian land’*


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There seem to be plenty of cases where even the courts have found it to be private land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how you can possibly discern that from what you can learn on google.  Because the media and the Palestinians tend to label it all as "privately owned land".  When its not.  It is very, very rare to find news articles which outline the actual legal defenses and documentation of the parties involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the settlers all label it as theirs.
Click to expand...



_"I don't have facts, but Israelis must be in the wrong" - _is not an argument.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> And the settlers all label it as theirs.



So is that how you think the law should work then -- who ever labels it "theirs" wins?  

My point is that calling land "yours" does not make the land "yours".  One would think that you would agree with me on that simple point.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF on Wednesday allowed a group of Arabs to work in the Ma’alot Yishai neighborhood in Hebron, and the latter took advantage of the opportunity to uproot a Jewish-owned vineyard in the same neighborhood, Honenu reported on Wednesday. Apparently, it will take years for the dozens of destroyed vines to recover. None of the hooligans were arrested, although the entire event was taped.

The vineyard is located in ancient Tel Hebron, near the neighborhood of Amot Yishai (Tel Rumeida), and is part of the ancient Jewish community in Hebron. The vineyard was planted about 8 years ago and is cultivated by a resident of the Jewish community of Hebron.

(full article online)

IDF Permits Arabs to Work in Hebron Jewish Neighborhood, Arabs Ravage Jewish Vineyard


----------



## Hollie

I though this was funny.  Those at the top of the UNRWA welfare fraud scheme are enjoying the "do as I say, not as I do", meme.



PMW Bulletins
PA leaders’ hypocrisy: Demand Palestinians boycott Israeli products, but serve Israeli products at leaders’ meetings

PA leaders’ hypocrisy: Demand Palestinians boycott Israeli products, but serve Israeli products at leaders’ meetings - PMW Bulletins

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Jan. 23, 2019 
Share |Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the PA urges Palestinians to boycott Israeli products and prohibits normalization in any way with Israel.

However, when it comes to its own conduct, the PA shows its hypocrisy.  



In recent days, Palestinian social media has raged over the publication of a photo revealing that PA officials enjoyed Israeli soft drinks at a meeting at the PA Ministry of Employment: 

"On Monday a post from the official Facebook page of the PA Ministry of Employment regarding a meeting held in the ministry's building - during which refreshments were served that included bottles of Israeli Tapuzina juice - was shared on social media.
Following the spread of the news item and the picture, in addition to a wave of rage that it awakened, the ministry immediately removed the picture."
[Amad, independent Palestinian news website, Jan. 22, 2019]

The PA tells it people not to use Israeli


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the settlers all label it as theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is that how you think the law should work then -- who ever labels it "theirs" wins?
> 
> My point is that calling land "yours" does not make the land "yours".  One would think that you would agree with me on that simple point.
Click to expand...

I agree, that is why thete are courts.  And multiple times the courts have agreed with the Palrdtinians.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There seem to be plenty of cases where even the courts have found it to be private land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how you can possibly discern that from what you can learn on google.  Because the media and the Palestinians tend to label it all as "privately owned land".  When its not.  It is very, very rare to find news articles which outline the actual legal defenses and documentation of the parties involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the settlers all label it as theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> _"I don't have facts, but Israelis must be in the wrong" - _is not an argument.
Click to expand...


 According to you the Palestinians must be wrong and the media cant possibly have  the facts (unless they are rightwing propoganda outlets)...


----------



## watchingfromafar

rylah said:


> Jews from all of their holy cities.



There is nothing "holy" about the Zionist occupation of Palestine's cities. The Jews are not indigenous to the land. 

_*Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?*_

_*Promised Land*_

_“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _

*Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan *_running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea. *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._

_The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King_ _Omri of Israel. Their capital was _*Dibon, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban.*_”_

_Moab - New World Encyclopedia
_
And last but not least, all of the great Jewish leader were buried beyond the Jordan river, NOT in the lad falsely claimed by the Zionists today.

Genesis 25:9 _His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite, _

Genesis 47:30 _but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and *bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried*."  "I will do as you say," he said. ; _

Genesis 49:31 *There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.*

Genesis 50:10  _And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, *which is beyond Jordan*, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation: _

Genesis 50:13 _For his sons *carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan*, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre. _

Genesis 50:14 _After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father. _

The Israeli's claim the land they now occupy the homeland of the Israelite's while their great leaders where buried elsewhere; Israel, Isaac, Rebekah, Abraham, Leah and Sarah were not buried in the land we now call "Israel" but in a land called Canaan which was beyond the Jordan river. 

*Why is there such a disconnect from biblical history and the occupied land of today? *

- ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians say that Shaheen and Fattash are among dozens of "political detainees" who are being held in Palestinian Authority (PA) prisons and detention centers in various parts of the West Bank. According to some human rights organizations, the Palestinians held in PA prisons are often subjected to various forms of torture.


In a letter to Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, a number of Palestinian human rights organizations recently demanded that the international agency speak out against the politically motivated arrests by the PA in the West Bank. It is highly unlikely, however, that the human rights organizations will receive any reply from the UN, whose various agencies continue to be obsessed only with Israel.


The UN does not seem to care about human rights violations committed by the PA against its own people. These are the type of stories that evidently do not interest either the UN or the international media because they lack an anti-Israel angle. The only "abuses" they see are those that can be blamed on Israel.


What is happening in the PA-controlled territories and prisons in the West Bank is a tiny taste of what life for the Palestinians would be like under a totalitarian regime that does not tolerate any form of criticism. In both the PA-controlled territories and Gaza, Palestinians must resort to the desperate measure of closing their mouths to food because they cannot open their mouths to demand decent treatment.

(full article online)

Palestinians: The 'Political Detainees' No One Talks About


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's the latest article by Sydney lawyer and international affairs analyst David Singer.

_*He writes:*_


The bizarre Handover ceremony of Egypt’s Chairmanship of the Group of 77 to the “State of Palestine”for 2019 will enable this non-existent and non-member State of the United Nations to play a leading role in the 74 years old farce – “TheQuestion of Palestine and the United Nations” (PUN).

“The State of Palestine” does not meet the criteria for statehood required under the 1933 Montevideo Convention.

The Group of 77 (“the Bloc”) contains *133 *of the 193 member states of the United Nations – ensuring the automatic passage of all United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolutions they propose. 

UNGA *ResolutionA/RES/73/5* – adopted on 16 October 2018 – put  this illusory “State of Palestine” centre stage for PUN’s 2019 New York season – recognising it as the Bloc’s public face in all matters  brought before UNGA and at meetings of representatives of other major groups.

146 countries voted for this Resolution whilst only three – Israel, the U.S. and Australia – voted against, 15 countries abstained and the remaining 29 states did not vote.

US Deputy UN Ambassador Jonathan Cohen *called out* the hypocrisy of the vote:
_*"We cannot support efforts by the Palestinians to enhance their status outside of directnegotiations. The United States does not recognize that there is a Palestinian
state.... Only U.N. member states should be entitled to speak and act on behalf of major groups of states at the United Nations."*_

(full article online)

Daphne Anson: David Singer: “State of  Palestine” set to confront Trump at United Nations


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> _The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King_ _Omri of Israel.  _



Let me get this straight.  You are using the Mesha Stele, as well as numerous archaeological findings, to prove the historicity of the Moabite people while concurrently denying the historical people of Israel (the Jewish people).  Whose historical existence is written on the exact same stone.  

Wow.  Cognitive dissonance at its finest.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I agree, that is why thete are courts.  And multiple times the courts have agreed with the Palrdtinians.



Yes, exactly.  But that takes us back to your post #12215: 





Coyote said:


> It does and has however allowed settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs.



Israel does not, in fact, "allow settlers to build on privately owned land that is not theirs".  Israel has a robust and complicated system of land laws and courts which determine legal ownership.

Your claim is a trite little sound-byte which paints Israel, her government and *especially the Jewish people who live in Area C* as stealing land which doesn't belong to them.  Its misleading at best, demonizing at worse.  The reality is that Israel has a legal system which actively works to protect the Arab Palestinian people in Area C and their private property.  And whether or not it is private property is determined by a system of laws and not anybody's "but I say so".  

That is the right thing to do.  It does not serve peace and reconciliation to continue to spread these false sound-bytes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *BLOOD LIBEL: THE MYTH OF ‘PRIVATE PALESTINIAN LAND’*
> *Because land on which most settlements are built is not agriculturally useful, Arabs did not claim ownership until recently.*
> 
> Promoted by Arab propagandists and their supporters, politicians, academics, media and anti-Israel NGOs, this theory has also been adopted by Israelis, including prominent judicial figures who give it legitimacy. A poisoned narrative based on ignorance and/or misunderstanding, it is a lie.
> 
> Based on titles and deeds, land that is registered becomes private property. But what if there are no documents to prove ownership?
> 
> Land that Arabs claim as their private property was not purchased; it was state-owned land that was either given away by the sovereign power during the Ottoman, British and Jordanian occupations or was encroached and developed. Arab claims based on gifts and alleged agricultural use are not property deeds. How, then, did this confusion about “private Palestinian land” come about?
> 
> Using ownerless, uninhabited land is a universally recognized method for claiming it, unless contested. Until the modern period, land registration, especially in sparsely populated areas like the Middle East, Africa and North Africa was not widely practiced.
> 
> With the rise of nation-states and the development of bureaucracies this changed.
> 
> According to international agreements such as the San Remo Accord (1920) and the League of Nations (1922), the Mandate for Palestine was intended as a “Jewish National Home.” This anchors the rights of the Jewish people and Israeli sovereignty in law. It has never been superseded.
> 
> Administering the Mandate, Britain organized land surveys in Palestine, primarily to collect taxes and create an orderly system of land ownership and transfer. According to Dr. Dov Gavish, who wrote the only extensive study of this topic, Survey of Palestine, 1920-1948 (2005), maps were drawn based on where inhabitants were found and on verbal claims, usually by local mukhtars (chiefs) and sheikhs, not on documents or land registration.
> 
> Based on aerial photos and evidence of cultivation, villages were arbitrarily divided into 60-hectare (about 148-acre) blocks, which were then sub-divided among local peasants. Highly inaccurate, these fiscal maps nevertheless became the basis for taxation. They did not and do not reflect legal ownership.
> 
> As Gavish notes, the registration process lacked legal procedures for determining proper (actual) ownership, the investigators often had little professional training, surveyors who drew boundaries relied on inaccurate methods (such as vague geographical markers), and were hampered by constant Arab violence.
> 
> Maps held by Turkish and Jordanian governments are unavailable, and many maps held by the British Mandatory government were accidentally destroyed. The Israeli Civil (Military) Administration also has aerial maps which are used to determine land use, and surveys which are not necessarily reliable or accurate documentations of private ownership.
> 
> These questionable maps and documents, however, are used to sanction Arab claims and charge Jews with stealing “private Palestinian land.” Although these lands could have been registered, most were not. Moreover, land which was not used, or not passed on by inheritance reverts to the original owner, the state, by law.
> 
> Most of what is called “private Palestinian land” is claimed – and some registered – based on policies that legitimized squatting after the fact and by counting land as “owned” when in fact it had been leased, or simply used.
> 
> During the Mandate period, most of the land that was registered by individuals was called “Miri.” Leased, not privately owned, “Miri” land remained property of the state.
> 
> Although land that was not used for 10 years should have reverted to the state, large areas of such unused land remained under local Arab control.
> 
> Another category of ownerless land, called “waste land” (“Mewat”), is known throughout the Middle East and recognized in international law. Dr.Ya’akov Meron’s authoritative article, “Waste Land (Mewat) in Judea and Samaria,” (Boston College Int’l & Comparative Law Review, 1981) notes that this land was not included in state land and could be claimed by whoever used it, Jews or Arabs.
> 
> Because land on which most settlements are built is not agriculturally useful, Arabs did not claim ownership until recently, when anti-settlement NGOs asserted that these lands belonged to Arabs, individually and/or collectively based on hearsay, maps and documents that are grossly inaccurate and often false.
> 
> Assertions by NGOs and Arabs that land is privately owned, however, even when approved by politically motivated government and judicial officials, including the State Prosecutor’s Office and Civil Administration, are not necessarily true. Although these claims may be blindly accepted by the High Court, they are not valid until they have been examined and authenticated by lower courts. This has led to much confusion about what constitutes “private Palestinian land.”
> 
> Accusing Israeli Jews of “stealing private Palestinian land,” condemning “settlements” as “illegal,” “violations of international law” and “the occupation” are powerful weapons in the war to demonize and delegitimize Israel.
> 
> Commonly accepted and taken for granted, these charges are used to justify Arab terrorism (“resistance”) and subvert Israel’s moral right to exist. Such allegations are inaccurate and feed anti-Israel propaganda. Who needs them?
> 
> *Blood libel: The myth of ‘private Palestinian land’*


 WOW!


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There seem to be plenty of cases where even the courts have found it to be private land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how you can possibly discern that from what you can learn on google.  Because the media and the Palestinians tend to label it all as "privately owned land".  When its not.  It is very, very rare to find news articles which outline the actual legal defenses and documentation of the parties involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the settlers all label it as theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> _"I don't have facts, but Israelis must be in the wrong" - _is not an argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to you the Palestinians must be wrong and the media cant possibly have  the facts (unless they are rightwing propoganda outlets)...
Click to expand...


It's kinda blaming someone who points to fallacies in an argument because You think he's lactose intolerant. Childish response.

Israel is a small country, we know faster about things from our friends and relatives than media reports.
And that's exactly why I posted from left wing outlets when I saw that they were actually connected to reality.

Don't blame me for pointing out the lies. at least I'm directly involved. Why You should be so jealously concerned as to pay for a clearly biased far left outlet, I cannot understand.


----------



## Hollie

*OPCAT application is Palestinian hypocrisy at its best*

OPCAT application is Palestinian hypocrisy at its best
_





GETTY IMAGES_

_

The Palestinian Authority last month announced its intention to join 22 international conventions, including the Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (OPCAT). Such a request should arouse a chuckle among anybody whose familiarity with the PA's own practices is even minimal.

Last July, an Israeli court issued a precedential ruling that found the PA guilty of acts of vicious torture against 52 men and women - Palestinians and Israeli Arabs - suspected of collaborating with Israel in its struggle against terror. These unfortunate souls have now found refuge in Israel.

Among the shocking testimonies given by the plaintiffs: Being forced to sit on broken bottles, having heated needles inserted into their genitals, the rape and murder of a victim's sister and many other acts of unspeakable cruelty. The torture was carried out with the full knowledge of the PA, the body now seeking acceptance to the OPCAT.
_


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BLOOD LIBEL: THE MYTH OF ‘PRIVATE PALESTINIAN LAND’*
> *Because land on which most settlements are built is not agriculturally useful, Arabs did not claim ownership until recently.*
> 
> Promoted by Arab propagandists and their supporters, politicians, academics, media and anti-Israel NGOs, this theory has also been adopted by Israelis, including prominent judicial figures who give it legitimacy. A poisoned narrative based on ignorance and/or misunderstanding, it is a lie.
> 
> Based on titles and deeds, land that is registered becomes private property. But what if there are no documents to prove ownership?
> 
> Land that Arabs claim as their private property was not purchased; it was state-owned land that was either given away by the sovereign power during the Ottoman, British and Jordanian occupations or was encroached and developed. Arab claims based on gifts and alleged agricultural use are not property deeds. How, then, did this confusion about “private Palestinian land” come about?
> 
> Using ownerless, uninhabited land is a universally recognized method for claiming it, unless contested. Until the modern period, land registration, especially in sparsely populated areas like the Middle East, Africa and North Africa was not widely practiced.
> 
> With the rise of nation-states and the development of bureaucracies this changed.
> 
> According to international agreements such as the San Remo Accord (1920) and the League of Nations (1922), the Mandate for Palestine was intended as a “Jewish National Home.” This anchors the rights of the Jewish people and Israeli sovereignty in law. It has never been superseded.
> 
> Administering the Mandate, Britain organized land surveys in Palestine, primarily to collect taxes and create an orderly system of land ownership and transfer. According to Dr. Dov Gavish, who wrote the only extensive study of this topic, Survey of Palestine, 1920-1948 (2005), maps were drawn based on where inhabitants were found and on verbal claims, usually by local mukhtars (chiefs) and sheikhs, not on documents or land registration.
> 
> Based on aerial photos and evidence of cultivation, villages were arbitrarily divided into 60-hectare (about 148-acre) blocks, which were then sub-divided among local peasants. Highly inaccurate, these fiscal maps nevertheless became the basis for taxation. They did not and do not reflect legal ownership.
> 
> As Gavish notes, the registration process lacked legal procedures for determining proper (actual) ownership, the investigators often had little professional training, surveyors who drew boundaries relied on inaccurate methods (such as vague geographical markers), and were hampered by constant Arab violence.
> 
> Maps held by Turkish and Jordanian governments are unavailable, and many maps held by the British Mandatory government were accidentally destroyed. The Israeli Civil (Military) Administration also has aerial maps which are used to determine land use, and surveys which are not necessarily reliable or accurate documentations of private ownership.
> 
> These questionable maps and documents, however, are used to sanction Arab claims and charge Jews with stealing “private Palestinian land.” Although these lands could have been registered, most were not. Moreover, land which was not used, or not passed on by inheritance reverts to the original owner, the state, by law.
> 
> Most of what is called “private Palestinian land” is claimed – and some registered – based on policies that legitimized squatting after the fact and by counting land as “owned” when in fact it had been leased, or simply used.
> 
> During the Mandate period, most of the land that was registered by individuals was called “Miri.” Leased, not privately owned, “Miri” land remained property of the state.
> 
> Although land that was not used for 10 years should have reverted to the state, large areas of such unused land remained under local Arab control.
> 
> Another category of ownerless land, called “waste land” (“Mewat”), is known throughout the Middle East and recognized in international law. Dr.Ya’akov Meron’s authoritative article, “Waste Land (Mewat) in Judea and Samaria,” (Boston College Int’l & Comparative Law Review, 1981) notes that this land was not included in state land and could be claimed by whoever used it, Jews or Arabs.
> 
> Because land on which most settlements are built is not agriculturally useful, Arabs did not claim ownership until recently, when anti-settlement NGOs asserted that these lands belonged to Arabs, individually and/or collectively based on hearsay, maps and documents that are grossly inaccurate and often false.
> 
> Assertions by NGOs and Arabs that land is privately owned, however, even when approved by politically motivated government and judicial officials, including the State Prosecutor’s Office and Civil Administration, are not necessarily true. Although these claims may be blindly accepted by the High Court, they are not valid until they have been examined and authenticated by lower courts. This has led to much confusion about what constitutes “private Palestinian land.”
> 
> Accusing Israeli Jews of “stealing private Palestinian land,” condemning “settlements” as “illegal,” “violations of international law” and “the occupation” are powerful weapons in the war to demonize and delegitimize Israel.
> 
> Commonly accepted and taken for granted, these charges are used to justify Arab terrorism (“resistance”) and subvert Israel’s moral right to exist. Such allegations are inaccurate and feed anti-Israel propaganda. Who needs them?
> 
> *Blood libel: The myth of ‘private Palestinian land’*
> 
> 
> 
> WOW!
Click to expand...


Didn't think defeat would be so instant.
Swallowed Your tongue?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anti-Semite Linda Sarsour claims Islam taught her human rights; no need for the West


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Anti-Semite Linda Sarsour claims Islam taught her human rights; no need for the West


OK, so?


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorists funded by the UNRWA welfare fraud are on a roll. 





*PMW exclusive:*
*PA spent at least 502 million shekels 
in payments to terrorist prisoners in 2018

PMW exclusive: PA spent at least 502 million shekels in payments to terrorist prisoners in 2018 - PMW Bulletins*

*As Israel is preparing to implement a new law that imposes financial sanctions on the PA for its "Pay for Slay" policy, PMW has looked at the PA's financial reports for 2018 which includes its payments to terrorist prisoners and released terrorist prisoners*

*While the PA does not provide details of how this money was allocated between the terrorist prisoners and the released terrorist prisoners, PMW calculations, based solely on open sources, show that:*

*At least 230 million shekels were paid in salaries to terrorist prisoners *

*At least 176 million shekels were paid in salaries to released terrorist prisoners*

*The remaining 96 million shekels covers additional salary payments and other benefits to the terrorist prisoners and released terrorist prisoners that PMW is unable to precisely quantify*
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. 

According to its own budgetary update, in 2018 the Palestinian Authority spent no less than 502 million shekels on salaries and other payments to terrorist prisoners and released terrorist prisoners.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Islam has “ Human Rights?”   
 Beheading
 Slavery
 Killing of Christians
 Destruction of Churches and Hindu places of Worship 
Killing those who don’t Convert to Islam
Killing those who “ insult” the “ prophet “ 

Yep, they sure do believe in “ human rights” Kerp posting !!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ These continue to be some....of the Palestinians and what they teach in their culture ]

Then he ends off by saying, "Finally, I will quote some of the views that cast doubt on the figures of the Jews killed in the genocide." He then goes through the views of famous Holocaust deniers like David Irving.

The article ends by saying there are "many opinions" on the matter.

This is another form of Holocaust denial. By casting doubt on perhaps the most well-documented atrocity in human history, the author pretends to be open to all opinions but in fact is amplifying provable lies. He is giving his audience a reason to doubt, not a reason to learn about it.

The Holocaust is, of course, not taught in Palestinian schools, and when UNRWA floated the idea of adding it to the curriculum some years back there was a huge backlash. Because by teaching Palestinian Arabs that Jews are human beings and victims, Palestinians cannot teach their kids to hate Jews as easily.

(full article online)

Palestinian writer on Holocaust Remembrance Day - Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*











*


 


(full article online)


PA Antisemitism alive and kicking on International Holocaust Remembrance Day - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

While European leaders have given Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro an ultimatum that unless he holds democratic elections they will recognize opposition leader Juan Guaidó as the country’s legitimate leader, the Palestinian Authority is emphasizing its support for Maduro. 

Maduro won the presidential elections in May 2018, but the election was determined to be fraudulent and many countries have not recognized his presidency. Nevertheless, Maduro embarked on his second term, enjoying the support of Russia, China, Mexico, Syria, Iran, and Turkey, while the US, Canada, the EU, Israel, and some countries in Latin America back the leadership of Guaidó. Guaidó proclaimed himself acting president last week, but Maduro has refused to step down. Meanwhile, Venezuelans continue to suffer under food and medicine shortages and dozens have been killed in nationwide protests against Maduro and his government.

Palestinian Media Watch has found that the PA has unequivocally put itself behind the corrupt Maduro in direct opposition to the US, Canada, the EU and others. The following are some examples of the PA’s support for Maduro’s presidency in Venezuela:

PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki participated in Maduro’s inauguration ceremony and also brought Maduro congratulations from PA Chairman Abbas:

“Al-Malki congratulated President Maduro on receiving the presidency, wished him success in his service of the Venezuelan people, and *conveyed to him the congratulations and wishes of [PA President] Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian leadership *that always stands by Venezuela and its people, as Palestine does not forget its friends."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Jan. 12, 2019]

(full article online)

PA supports Venezuelan president Maduro, condemns US for “supporting coup attempt” - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

I know you will find this as shocking, _*Shocking *_as I did, kuffar, but it appears that Rashida Tlaib is the stereotypical Jew hating, Holocaust denying Arab-Moslem loon. 


Rashida Tlaib Faces Criticism Over Fundraiser’s Anti-Semitic Facebook Post

Rashida Tlaib Faces Criticism Over Fundraiser’s Anti-Semitic Facebook Post

Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) is facing scrutiny from conservatives after a video shared on Facebook by a key campaign fundraiser calling Jews “satanic” surfaced Monday, The Daily Caller reports. Palestinian activist Maher Abdel-qader, who organized campaign events for Tlaib across the country, shared the controversial clip on Facebook in January 2018. “Research the truth about the Holocaust, and you’ll definitely start to question what you thought you knew,” says the video’s narrator, before going on to question whether 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. The narrator also claims Jews invented their historical claim to Israel in a covert effort to control the media. Abdel-qader posted the video on his personal Facebook page and on the wall of the Facebook group, “Palestinian American Congress/USA,” according to the right-leaning Daily Caller. Tlaib, who is one of the first two Muslim women elected to Congress, has previously been criticized by the right for her stance on Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas gets rid of anyone in his government who MIGHT not agree with him ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Still Want To Boycott Israel? Israeli Scientists Find Cure For Cancer, Report Says


----------



## Sixties Fan

Desalination and the BDS. - Jews Down Under


----------



## Sixties Fan

An analysis of the Palestinian arena points to a terminal split and dead end. The Palestinian Authority has chosen now, of all times, to reject American aid money, while Hamas openly scoffed at Qatar's humanitarian aid yet immediately accepted it through the back door.

Throughout history, the PLO's terrorist tentacles – and the Palestinian "sumud" (steadfastness) at its core – have been funded by Arab countries and the West, in a lethal brew of fearmongering and anti-Semitism. Many of the countries were essentially paying "protection money," either willingly or through blackmail, to help resolve the "Palestinian problem" and out of concern that the PLO would do them harm. Other countries used the organization as an "attack dog," a proxy to pursue their interests.

In Gaza, Hamas' situation is getting worse. The organization is scrounging money through cash-filled suitcases and smuggling from Turkey and Iran, and from its fundraising operatives in Africa and Malaysia; but the people are hungry, crippled and exhausted. Hamas is still pursuing its self-declared goal of exterminating each and every Jew "hiding behind every rock and tree;" but in Gaza the only thing to be found behind the rocks and trees are unemployment, illness, drugs and despair.

Amid the claims and denigrations against Hamas by Palestinian Islamic Jihad that it too has collaborated to sell out the resistance against Israel of some fuel and dollars, Hamas publicly rejected Qatar's cash assistance. In actuality, the money is reaching its pockets with certain conditions attached – and Israel's agreements – through a circuitous and "humanitarian" path via banks and U.N. clerks in Gaza (who are Hamas activists anyway). Hence, everyone is happy: Hamas isn't collaborating with the enemy and Israel remains humanitarian.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-lost-art-of-palestinian-protection/


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult. 
*
PA honors 2 murderers

PA university awards jailed murderer with honorary certificate - PMW Bulletins*

*PA university awards jailed murderer
with "honorary certificate in military science
as a sign of appreciation for his role and sacrifice"
Mother to murderer son: "You did nothing wrong...
On the contrary, you bring us pride"*





*Young relatives of murderer dream of meeting him*
*PA TV: He is a role model for children*

by Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Karim and Maher Younes are Israeli Arab terrorists serving a 40-year sentence for having kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980. They are among the Palestinian Authority's so-called "veteran" prisoners, and as such are glorified tremendously by the PA. The fact that they have both "endured" 36 years in prison was celebrated by the PA this month.
"Under the auspices" of PA Chairman Abbas, the Tulkarem district held a "rally of solidarity" in Maher Younes' honor with the participation of Fatah Deputy Chairman and Abbas' representative Mahmoud Al-Aloul, Fatah Central Committee member Tawfiq Tirawi, Tulkarem District Governor Issam Abu Bakr, Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, and PA-funded Prisoners' Club Chairman Qadura Fares.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA government is saying in this video that it transfers patients to the Jerusalem hospital not for their own good, but for political purposes to "strengthen the resilience of the holy city and its citizens."

How many patients received worse quality care, or were hurt by an ambulance trip that wasn't necessary? How many may have died because of this policy?

And isn't it interesting that the Palestinian leaders are bragging about their apathy towards patient care?

(full article online)

Palestinian leaders use patients as pawns, transfer them to E. Jerusalem hospital for only political reasons ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

One of the lynchpins of the palestinian narrative is the “Naqba” and the palestinian refugees. Over time, the official palestinian narrative has evolved to claim that Israel expelled all 700,000 palestinian Arabs from what is now Israel, even though there are those Israel haters who do mention fleeing.

For instance, last year I noticed how in 2014, PA President Mahmoud Abbas told students in Ramallah

"Someone asked me: How [could we receive] Israeli citizenship? I said: You are returning to the state of Israel. After all, the refugees, numbered at five million, and their children – were all expelled from the 1948 territories. There is no refugee from Nablus or Ramallah. They are all from Tiberius, Acre, Safed, Nazareth, Jaffa or Beersheba. If you want to return to Israel and receive an Israeli citizenship or not – you are free [to decide].”

changing his tune from this previous statement of his in 1976


“The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live.”

But now it seems we have proof on film of Abbas admitted that for the most part, the palestinian Arabs fled.

WATCH: Mahmoud Abbas Admitting Palestinian Arabs Fled And Were Not Expelled


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian University Awards Jailed Murderer With Honorary Certificate


----------



## Hollie

While the Arab-Moslem Death Cult contines to receive welfare dollars, their glorification of murderers and misfits continues. 
*


Palestinian pride - Murderers are cool!*
*
Palestinian pride – Murderers are cool! - PMW Bulletins*

*Children are taught to admire killers*

*Mother to children of murderer: “Your father is a hero”
Daughter: “Father is one of the Palestinian heroes we are proud of” 
o


*

*Father of would-be suicide bomber: “All the prisoners are our sons... You are a source of pride for us”*
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Terrorist murderers are cool! That is the message from the Palestinian Authority to Palestinians. The PA continues to stress to its population that terrorists and murderers of Israelis are "heroes" by glorifying them and rewarding them with salaries. 

As Palestinian Media Watch has documented, events are named in honor of the terrorist prisoners, PA and Fatah officials thank and praise them in speeches, and official PA TV broadcasts several programs about and specifically for the prisoners and visits their families. 

The following two recent broadcasts on official PA TV show that the Palestinian population embraces this role modeling of murderers:

A mother teaches her children that their father who murdered a Greek Orthodox monk is “a hero”: 











*Terrorist prisoner Yasser Rabai'ah's wife:* "I always encourage [my children] and tell them: Your father is a hero. Our homeland deserves such heroes.” 
*Terrorist prisoner Yasser Rabai'ah's daughter:* "I want to say that father is one of the Palestinian heroes we are proud of.”
[Official PA TV, _Giants of Endurance_, Jan. 19, 2019


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and Iran turn to Bitcoin to raise funds ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was funny. In the alternate reality of islamic terrorist dictators ruling over islamic terrorist mini-caliphates, those lower on the UNRWA welfare fraud feeding frenzy live a tenuous existence.





Palestinian president Abbas accepts government resignation

https://www.yahoo.com/news/palestinian-government-submits-resignation-abbas-141026124.htm

Ramallah (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas accepted the resignation of his government Tuesday, in a reshuffle seen as a bid by the ageing leader to strengthen his position as a decade-old political split deepens.

Analysts view replacing prime minister Rami Hamdallah after five years as part of Abbas's efforts to further isolate his political rivals Hamas, who run the Gaza Strip.

Hamdallah's government will remain in place while a new administration is formed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The irony of being pro-Palestinian uncovered


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ One of the many in Gaza not "starving" because of the Israeli blockade ]

Why AP's Latest Gazan 'Sob Story' Is Actually Worth Highlighting


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The irony of being pro-Palestinian uncovered


Couldn't read it. Too much name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The irony of being pro-Palestinian uncovered
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't read it. Too much name calling.
Click to expand...


You couldn't address it. Too much side-stepping.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Have you noticed the photograph Amnesty International use to illustrate their latest attack on Israel. Look more closely.

*



*
*What grounds are there to believe this is the fakest of fake news?*

An amnesty for Paliwood


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a list of all the decrees/decisions made by the Palestinian cabinet over the past 14 months, autotranslated into English.

Every single one is a declaration of when holidays will be.

(full article and list online)

In case you were wondering what the Palestinian government does.... ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Protests by the Palestinians in Lebanon are unlikely to draw any attention from the international community, including so-called pro-Palestinian groups that are active especially on university campuses in the US and Canada, among other places.


The real "pro-Palestinian" groups are those who are willing to raise their voices against the mistreatment of Palestinians at the hands of their Arab brothers. The real "pro-Palestinian" groups are those who are prepared to defend the rights of women and gays living under Hamas in the Gaza Strip. The real "pro-Palestinian" groups are those that are prepared to advocate for democracy and free speech for Palestinians living under the repressive regimes of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in the Gaza Strip. The real "pro-Palestinian" groups are those who are prepared to condemn Lebanon for its racist and discriminatory measures against Palestinians, living and dead.


Hiding at a university campus and spewing hatred against Israel does not make one "pro-Palestinian." Rather, it makes one just an Israel-hater. Will the "pro-Palestinian" groups listen to the urgent messages coming from the people in Lebanon they claim to represent?

(full article online)

The Palestinians: Who Really Cares?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Introducing........ Israel's Fifth Column ]

Balad Chair: Party is ‘Inseparable Part of Palestinian National Movement’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians to Christians in Gaza: No Holidays for You!


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas terror group continued throughout 2018 to provide military training for students in government high schools in the Gaza Strip, with the  so-called “March of Return” riots and ongoing tensions with Israel and attacks on it in the background, according to a report by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terror Information Center (ITIC).

According to the report, the training is part of the al-Futuwwa (“youth/heroism”) program, which prepares them to join Hamas’ ranks, as well as those of other Palestinian terrorist organizations, in the future.

The government schools in the Gaza Strip are technically subordinate to the ministry of education run by the Palestinian Authority (PA) in Ramallah, but are in fact controlled by Hamas, which has absolute control of the Strip.

(full article online)

Hamas Trains High School Kids in Gaza to Become Next Generation of Terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA chooses terror promotion and rewards over US aid - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

At this moment, according to B'Tselem, there are 203 minors in Israeli prisons. 80% are over 16, none are under 14. Some more might be in IDF detention, but certainly less than 250 total.

The chances that a Palestinian minor from the West Bank  is in Israeli custody right now is about 1 in 10,000.

The chances that an American minor is in detention (prison or juvenile detention) is about 1 in 1500. The chances that an American minor is in adult prison is 1 in 7500.

Canadian rates are comparable.

A Palestinian minor has a much lower chance of being in Israeli custody than an American or Canadian minor being in custody in those countries.

The Palestinian video went on to accuse Israel of torturing the children, an equally false accusation.

The obvious audience for this failed video is the English speaking world - NGOs, the UN and other Westerners, most of whom would not believe that a government that they want so desperately to succeed would lie so blatantly.

(full article online)

Lie of the day: "A large number of Palestinian children spend their childhood inside Israeli prisons" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

As one reads further into the_ Times_’s account of the government resigning, the mysteries only increase. It turns out that the government resigned following “widespread street demonstrations” by Palestinian Arabs. Who knew? Not readers of the _Times _or other major U.S. newspapers. Palestinian demonstrations are newsworthy only if they’re anti-Israel. These demonstrations were against the Government-Whose-Existence-Must-Not-Be-Mentioned, over “a contentious social security law.”

A contentious social security law? How do Palestinian Arabs have the power to pass their own laws if they are “struggling to survive under occupation”? How can they have their own social security system? Oh, the contradictions!

Not only that, the _Times_ belatedly informs its readers, but among the Palestinian Arabs there is “growing public resentment” over the fact that “there are no Palestinian elections on the horizon—the last national ballot took place over a decade go.”

If Israel was preventing Palestinian elections, it would be front page news. Day after day after day. But it’s the Palestinian Authority’s own chairman, Mahmoud Abbas, who is the denier of democracy. And news about Palestinian fascism is not fit to print.

The term “Palestinian Government” is really an oxymoron. No matter how much self-rule they enjoy, no matter how much foreign they receive, no matter how much free advice they get from their friends in the State Department they’re simply incapable of governing themselves.

Forced to report on the resignation of the Palestinian government, the _Times_ was also forced to explain some of the background of the conflicts between Abbas and Hamas, which in turn forced the _Times_ to grudgingly concede—in the 13th paragraph!—that Abbas has “authority [in] parts of the Israeli occupied-West Bank.”

Wait—if Israel “occupies” it, how does Abbas have “authority” in it? Oxymoron alert! Notice, by the way, that the _Times _does not explain which “parts” Abbas rules. That’s because it doesn’t want readers to know that Abbas rules the parts where 98% of the Palestinian Arabs reside.

That 98% figure is the most dangerous fact of all. It’s the fact that is simply never mentioned—not by the major media, not by J Street or Americans for Peace Now, not by pro-Palestinian members of Congress or United Nations committees or the State Department crowd. Because admitting that the Palestinian Authority already rules 98% of the Palestinian Arabs severely undercuts the demands for a Palestinian state. It’s the ultimate “inconvenient truth.” So they suppress it.

(full article online)

“Palestinian government” dies, an oxymoron is born


----------



## Hollie

Life’s good for the current Islamic terrorist dictator running the mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan. The timing of the aircraft purchase suggests Abbas knew that the US was going to turn off the welfare spigot and thus he decided to buy the private jet while he still had welfare checks laying around. 

*Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
*
Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report

*Hadashot news reports plane will be delivered to Amman within weeks, will be stationed there for use by Palestinian leader*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

In the last century, there have been more than a dozen Heads of State that had planned ahead and prepared their eacape after looting the coffers of their country's treasury holding. 

I wonder _(just muzing)_ who holds the title to the $50M plane.



Hollie said:


> Life’s good for the current Islamic terrorist dictator running the mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan. The timing of the aircraft purchase suggests Abbas knew that the US was going to turn off the welfare spigot and thus he decided to buy the private jet while he still had welfare checks laying around.
> 
> *Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
> *
> Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
> 
> *Hadashot news reports plane will be delivered to Amman within weeks, will be stationed there for use by Palestinian leader*


*(COMMENT)*

I just wonder if the Palestinian President is planning his get-away.

Between what Mahmoud Abbas and hiw two sons _(who own Falcon Holdings)_ and the investment interests in Arab Palestinian Investment Company_ (and several associated companies)_, I suspect that he has a material value of more than $100M stashed away.

Now that a serious funding cut has been made in the ability for the State of Palestine _(such that it is)_ to stand on its own, it will be interesting to see if there is a great escape planned.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> In the last century, there have been more than a dozen Heads of State that had planned ahead and prepared their eacape after looting the coffers of their country's treasury holding.
> 
> I wonder _(just muzing)_ who holds the title to the $50M plane.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Life’s good for the current Islamic terrorist dictator running the mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan. The timing of the aircraft purchase suggests Abbas knew that the US was going to turn off the welfare spigot and thus he decided to buy the private jet while he still had welfare checks laying around.
> 
> *Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
> *
> Amid funding cut fears, PA purchases $50 million private jet for Abbas — report
> 
> *Hadashot news reports plane will be delivered to Amman within weeks, will be stationed there for use by Palestinian leader*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I just wonder if the Palestinian President is planning his get-away.
> 
> Between what Mahmoud Abbas and hiw two sons _(who own Falcon Holdings)_ and the investment interests in Arab Palestinian Investment Company_ (and several associated companies)_, I suspect that he has a material value of more than $100M stashed away.
> 
> Now that a serious funding cut has been made in the ability for the State of Palestine _(such that it is)_ to stand on its own, it will be interesting to see if there is a great escape planned.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I suspect that having the jet stationed in Jordan was a calculated decision on the part of Abbas. If some event causes a shooting war with Hamas to erupt (maybe the Iranians see Abbas as weak and smell blood), or Mahmoud decides that with his “government” dissolved and UNRWA a declining endowment, a jet out of the reach of his rivals is a security blanket.


----------



## Hollie

One of the “professors” at something called “Gaza university” “school of sharia”(I believe they accept direct deposit of UNRWA welfare checks as late as Tuesday for regular, weekly graduations on Thursday, although, I could be wrong about that), tells us once again that the Islamist position in the Arab-Israeli conflict is ideological, ie:, a matter of Islamist core ideals. 

"Gaza Islamic University Prof. Maher Al-Susi: Secular Western Concepts Have Been Exploited to Make Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Appear Political Rather than Ideological" 


_Professor Maher Al-Susi, who teaches at the Islamic University of Gaza's shari'a school, said during a January 4, 2019 broadcast on Al-Quds TV (Lebanon) that it is a problem that Muslim intellectuals are accepting secular Western ideas such as separation of religion and state. He said that this is why people have started talking about "political Islam" and that these "mistaken ideas" have been exploited in order to make the Israeli-Palestinian conflict appear to be a political conflict rather than an ideological one. He said: "The purpose of this was to remove faith and religion from the conflict. Our enemies were more clever than us. Unfortunately, they understood Islam better than we did."_


----------



## Hollie

One of the deleterious affects of generational welfare fraud. It's made "Southern Syrians" fat and lazy.

Liveleak.com - Gaza has one of the highest obesity rate in the world


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Monday night, IDF troops shot and killed a 19 year old who hurled an explosive device at them from a motorcycle.

Last week, a teenaged girl tried to stab soldiers and was shot and killed.

Both of these teens are being hailed as heroes by the party led by the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who tells people he is against violence.

Here's a Fatah poster for the 19 year old:





Although Fatah's Facebook page doesn't mention his attack, the poster calls him "the heroic martyr Abdallah Abu Taleb" - and they don't use the word "hero" for people killed unless they were attackers.
-----
Anyone who claims that Abbas doesn't encourage violence never spends time reading the material put out daily by his own people.


(full article online)

Palestinian attackers hailed as "heroes" by Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I have a suspicion why Mahmoud wanted a "presidential" jet available. 

Fuhrer Abbas has been trying to impose a social security tax. Those funds would be managed by the Abbas government. 

What coukd possibly go wrong?

My suspicion is that Abbas understands what could happen if the tax money somehow, mysteriously disappears and he needs to make a quick getaway to protect his personal safety from mobs with shovels and pitch forks, 

Abbas in New York as general strike brings Palestinian cities to a standstill

Thousands of Palestinians in the West Bank joined a strike on Tuesday against their government's proposed new social security law as Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was set to address the United Nations in New York.

The strike, which saw much of Ramallah, Hebron and other Palestinian cities closed, saw thousands of people protest outside the Social Security Corporation in Ramallah, where Abbas's government is based.

Protesters were demonstrating against a proposed new social security law, fearing the fund will be mismanaged. Under the proposed system both private employers and their employees would pay monthly into a government-managed fund, with employees receiving a pension when they retire.

The government says it will provide new security for employees, arguing similar systems exist in countries across the globe.

But protesters say they do not trust the Palestinian government to manage the fund and point out there are no guarantees.




Gee whiz. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't have total trust in an Islamic terrorist dictator.


----------



## Hollie

*Rashida Tlaib's islamic inspired Jew hating proclivities are just an embarrassment.


Rep. Rashida Tlaib says she referred to senators, not Jewish people, in blast about dual loyalties
*
Rashida Tlaib says ‘They forgot what country they represent’ tweet referred to senators, not Jews



_





3' 

In this photo, Rashida Tlaib, then a Democratic candidate for Michigan’s 13th Congressional District, speaks at a rally in Dearborn, Mich., Friday, Oct. 26, 2018. Ms. Tlaib went on to win the race and become one of the two first ... more >
*Rep. Rashida Tlaib says she referred to senators, not Jewish people, in blast about dual loyalties*

Michigan Democrat accuses Republicans of 'inventing controversy'

By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Tuesday, January 8, 2019
After her obscenity-laced tirade at President Trump, Rep. Rashida Tlaib has touched off another uproar, this time over anti-Semitism.

The Michigan Democrat, one of the two first Muslim women to serve in Congress, said Monday that she was referring to U.S. senators, not Jewish people, when she tweeted, “They forgot what country they represent.”
_
*







*


----------



## Hollie

It would be a terrible thing to blame Islamic terrorists for acts of Islamic terrorism. 
*
Don’t Blame Hamas for the Gaza Bloodshed

Israel has a right to defend its borders, but shooting unarmed protesters who haven’t breached its frontier is disproportionate and illegal.
*
*“*disproportionate and illegal.”

I would be interested to know how HRW would define the actions of Islamic terrorists if they had managed to breach the Israeli border and started killing Israeli citizens.

Somehow, disproportionate numbers of dead Islamic terrorists is something I can live with.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  et al,

When we describe the circumstances under which ground security forces and border police are challenged by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) attempting to enter into Israel and how that challenge will be met, we have to remember that certain staged media event workout better for the media and the HoAP is the challenge ends in blood.  Otherwise, there is no story for the media, there is no damning response event that can be manipulated such that it makes the HoAP _(Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter)_ look like they were gunned down the Israelis without provocation.

"Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, *all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media*, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.".......................... _Khaled Meshal_, former Political Director, HAMAS, 2012​


			
				Human Rights Watch - May 22 said:
			
		

> Israel has a right to defend its borders, but shooting unarmed protesters who haven’t breached its frontier is disproportionate and illegal.
> SOURCE:  Don’t Blame Hamas for the Gaza Bloodshed - Published in Foreign Policy - By Sari Bashi


As we discuss both the Article and the _(ongoing)_ Media Event, it is important that we keep in mind that this is not a Tree Hugger Protects, or the Green Peace saving the whales.  This is a tactic employed by the Arab Palestinians that have set a policy that "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" is the order of the day _(Article 13 of the Covenant)_ → and → that under the heading of Jihad _(Article 15 of the Covenant)_ the policy is that " (It is necessary that scientists, educators, and teachers, *information and media people*, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheiks of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses)."

It is important to remember, and I think you all understand these concepts, but the need to be emphasized here, because the diplomatic slant placed in the Foreign Policy contribution improperly orients the mindset.

*(REFERENCE)*

✪ *deception* — Those measures designed to mislead the enemy by manipulation, distortion, or falsification of evidence to induce the enemy to react in a manner prejudicial to the enemy’s interests.

✪ *deception means* → Methods, resources, and techniques that can be used to convey information to the deception target. There are three categories of deception means: 

◈ physical means. Activities and resources used to convey or deny selected information to a foreign power.

◈ technical means. Military material resources and their associated operating techniques used to convey or deny selected information to a
foreign power.

◈ administrative means. Resources, methods, and techniques to convey or deny oral, pictorial, documentary, or other physical evidence to a foreign power.​✪ *deception objective* → The desired result of a deception operation expressed in terms of what the adversary is to do or not to do at the critical time and/or location

✪ *deception story* → A scenario that outlines the friendly actions that will be portrayed to cause the deception target to adopt the desired perception.

✪ *demonstration* → An attack or show of force on a front where a decision is not sought, made with the aim of deceiving the enemy.

✪ *physical security*  →  That part of security concerned with physical measures designed to safeguard personnel; to prevent unauthorized access to equipment, installations, material, and documents; and to safeguard them against espionage, sabotage, damage, and theft.



			
				The Activist Post (Alternative News) said:
			
		

> People who don’t trust government, those who think on their own and tend to question what they hear, by now are all becoming experts at _identifying false flag staged events_. With so many recent staged psyop events in the news lately many of us are getting a lot of practice at this. But have you considered that the script has become more complex than you think?





			
				The Activist Post (Alternative News) said:
			
		

> SOURCE:  13 Important Elements To Look For In Every Staged Shooting Event -- By Bernie Suarez - 5 FEB'19


*(COMMENT)*

In the case of the "Right to Return March," HAMAS (and associate HoAP) did not have any real expectation of breaching the border.  The intent of the March _(and anyone who tells you that the March was not organized and encouraged by HAMAS is simply on another planet)_ was to create a media firestorm that the Israelis could not effectively dampen.

I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border or allow penetration of hundreds of HoAP.  The event was staged for the media to drum-up sympathy for them as HAMAS used ordinary Gaza citizens for cover and concealment.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Agreed, Rocco. These staged media events; flotillas, border riots, Shirley Temper confrontations with Israeli soldiers, etc., are calculated to draw attention. It’s not a coincidence that Islamic terrorists have multiple camera angles to record the event. 

And the more ambitious confrontations are, in my opinion, designed by Hamas and the other Islamic terrorist franchises to offer up a few dead Arabs-Moslems as a way to dramatize the event.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, *all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media*, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.".......................... _Khaled Meshal_, former Political Director, HAMAS, 2012


What do you have against liberation?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border


Uhhh, there is no border.


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## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh, there is no border.
Click to expand...


So you keep saying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh, there is no border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you keep saying.
Click to expand...

Because it is true. What is that line around Gaza?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh, there is no border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you keep saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is true. What is that line around Gaza?
Click to expand...



Is that the International border of the "country of Pally'land" that was created by the Treaty of Lausanne?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh, there is no border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you keep saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is true. What is that line around Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the International border of the "country of Pally'land" that was created by the Treaty of Lausanne?
Click to expand...

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh, there is no border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you keep saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is true. What is that line around Gaza?
Click to expand...


A dotted line.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh, there is no border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you keep saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is true. What is that line around Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the International border of the "country of Pally'land" that was created by the Treaty of Lausanne?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
Click to expand...


The Egyptian-Israeli Armistice agreement.


----------



## Hollie

Here's some good news for those who want to support a franchise of I_slamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., _but were concerned with potential scrutiny from domestic and international agencies which might take a dim view of such activities.

"Gazan Academic and Journalist Hussam Al-Dajany: People Can Now Donate to Hamas Using Bitcoin without Fear of Getting Caught"


Yahya Sinwar needs a private jet of his own so as not to look like a poor mans islamic terrorist when compared to Mahmoud.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians were leaders in "stochastic terrorism" before the term was invented ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prophet Samuel's Tomb: Archaeological site paved over with parking lot


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

In broad strokes, I have nothing against "liberation" or "independence as a peoples destiny."  However, that is within the parameters that the Arab Palestinians do not represent a clear danger to regional security and a present danger to the State of Israel; that being the limit to a danger to the international community, regional security and the general Arab Population itself.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, *all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media*, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.".......................... _Khaled Meshal_, former Political Director, HAMAS, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have against liberation?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Freedom and liberty are the default conditions for most people and societies.  This has been the case for millennia.  But that is not to say there are exceptions made for society itself → when it is found to be necessary to implement psychiatric institutionalization for those members of society that represent a danger to themselves or a threat to those that they may come in contact within the general population and citizenry. 

Similarly, when an individual nation → or the international community → finds itself _(Israel)_ threatened by an entire population, or generations within the population, _(in this case the Arab Palestinians)_ it may be necessary to implement customized and tailored security measures and precautions that prevent the threat from becoming reality and spreading further.  And in doing so, those that are in the greater proximity or direct threat must consider the protocols by with the implementation is managed or administered:

◈  The general policy and legal frameworks regulating the extent of the quarentine or sanctions _("the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation")_; 
◈  The responsibility and paternalism in the controlled relationships:
✦  The State of Israel as the primary quartine implementer; 
✦  The International Community in the furtherence of International Security;
✦  The Donor Community in the care and human development of the Arab Palestinians​◈  The various levels of responsibility _(Israel, International, Donor)_ that must constantly evaluate the adaptive behavior to institutionalized care and human development of the threat population _(Arab Palestinians)_.​
Seldom are the psychiatric institutionalization the same from one threat population to another _(North Korea does not present the same threat like Iran, or as the Islamic State)_.  Each must be dealt with on an individual level with diplomacy and political-military intervention.  Thus the Arab Palestinians being → yet different again → from the other examples → must have customized approach to the issues _(no one shoe fits all → although they all wear shoes, and no national personality set is the same)_.

The Arab Palestinians have not demonstrated, the ability "to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world."  The Arab Palestinians have, each and every time it has been invited to join in the development of self-governing institutions, rejected the invitation; just as they have often found ways to make the overture of peace negotiations counterproductive.

*∑*  There is nothing wrong with the idea of "liberation" given that it does not undermine the independence and sovereignty of the only independent Jewish nation (Israel) in the world, which actually worked to attain its self-governing institutions.



 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> In the case of the "Right to Return March," HAMAS (and associate HoAP) did not have any real expectation of breaching the border.  The intent of the March _(and anyone who tells you that the March was not organized and encouraged by HAMAS is simply on another planet)_ was to create a media firestorm that the Israelis could not effectively dampen.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone with half a brain already knew that the Israelis were not going to permit a breach of the border or allow penetration of hundreds of HoAP.  The event was staged for the media to drum-up sympathy for them as HAMAS used ordinary Gaza citizens for cover and concealment.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



Just to play devil's advocate here....Knowing this to be obviously true, what should Israeli response be?  What is the BEST possible response from Israel?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What do you have against liberation?



We are not against liberation.  In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland.  Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation.  They could have had it decades ago.  They could have it tomorrow.  In Gaza and in Area A  they ALREADY have it.  There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty.  (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).

The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation.  What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation.  They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty.  They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples.  (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have against liberation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are not against liberation.  In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland.  Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation.  They could have had it decades ago.  They could have it tomorrow.  In Gaza and in Area A  they ALREADY have it.  There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty.  (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation.  What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation.  They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty.  They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples.  (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)


OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.
The difference is obvious.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have against liberation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are not against liberation.  In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland.  Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation.  They could have had it decades ago.  They could have it tomorrow.  In Gaza and in Area A  they ALREADY have it.  There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty.  (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation.  What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation.  They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty.  They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples.  (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.
> The difference is obvious.
Click to expand...


OK, indeed, The roughly defined geographic area called "Palestine" was called such before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It didnt magically appear post Ottoman collapse.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have against liberation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are not against liberation.  In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland.  Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation.  They could have had it decades ago.  They could have it tomorrow.  In Gaza and in Area A  they ALREADY have it.  There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty.  (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation.  What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation.  They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty.  They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples.  (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.
> The difference is obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, indeed, The roughly defined geographic area called "Palestine" was called such before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It didnt magically appear post Ottoman collapse.
Click to expand...

So?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have against liberation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are not against liberation.  In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland.  Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation.  They could have had it decades ago.  They could have it tomorrow.  In Gaza and in Area A  they ALREADY have it.  There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty.  (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation.  What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation.  They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty.  They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples.  (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
> The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.
> The difference is obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, indeed, The roughly defined geographic area called "Palestine" was called such before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It didnt magically appear post Ottoman collapse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So?
Click to expand...


Precisely.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon, _*except for the Jews who were expelled.*_
> The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria, _*except for the Jews who were expelled.*_
> The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq, *except for the Jews who were expelled.*
> The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan, _*except for the Jews who were expelled.*_
> The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine *live somewhere else  are two distinct national groups with separate liberation movements because the Arabs were unsuccessful at expelling the Jews and the Jews chose not to expel the Arabs. *



There.  I fixed it for you.  The point (which you dodged) is that there was no requirement for the Ottoman Empire to remain intact (have territorial integrity) in the face of peoples seeking liberation and national independence.  There is no requirement for Palestine (now called Israel, Judea and Samaria once again) to remain intact.  Indeed, less so since Arab Palestine was never a sovereign entity and definitively proven true when it was divided into Israel and Jordan.

Thus your weasel call for "liberation" is nothing more than a demand for more territory, and more specifically, a demand that the Jewish people be denied their own liberation movement.  You don't believe in liberation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/02/06/beekeepers-losing-hundreds-of-hives-to-agricultural-terror/


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is foolishness.   

The partitioning of the territory that was comprised of the Vilayet of Beirut, made up of 6 Sanjak _(Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon, Beirut, Acre and Nablus)_ is half in present day "Lebanon" and half in present-day "Israel."  

The comment you offered makes no sense.  
•  The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
✦  In 1916, when the Sykes-Picot Agreement was made, there was no country or political subdivision of "Lebanon,"  Today's Lebanon was once the Sanjaks of Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon.​
The comment you offered makes no sense.  
•  The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
✦  In 1918, when the when the Armistice of Mudros was signed, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today.  It was the Vilyet of Syria and what became Jordan​
The comment you offered makes no sense.  
•  The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
✦  In 1922, when the Mandate was put into effect, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today.  It was still part of the Vilyet of Syria which was composed of Sanjaks of Hauran and Ma'an.   The southern half of the Sanjak of Damascus was also to become the northern portion of Jordan. ​


P F Tinmore said:


> The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.
> The difference is obvious.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, there are obvious differences.  But not many differences in the decisionmaking processes that guided nations in the years following the Great War (WW_I_). 

I notice that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians and those that follow their cause (_Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter_) often attempt to make these arguments based on analogies:  Once again I remind you:



			
				Artice 22 (Sub-Paragraph 2) • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court said:
			
		

> Article 22
> *Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> The definition of a crime shall be *strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy*. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.



Most every argument made by the Jihadists, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters in support of the Hostile Arab Palestinians of those Arab Palestinian people claiming to want "their rights" employ tactics using the unlawful and intentional use of force _(explosives, rocket fire, kidnapping, murder and other lethal lethal activities)_ in or against various defined public places with intent to cause serious bodily injury _(callous disregard for human life)_, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that receive some sort of remuneration for conducting acts of violence don't perceive themselves as perpetrators conducting criminal acts directed against the State of Israel and its allies, intended or calculation to create a state of terror in the minds of the Israeli People, and to destabilize the Jewish National Home.  Yet everything about their past history is an encyclopedia of criminal behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is foolishness.
> 
> The partitioning of the territory that was comprised of the Vilayet of Beirut, made up of 6 Sanjak _(Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon, Beirut, Acre and Nablus)_ is half in present day "Lebanon" and half in present-day "Israel."
> 
> The comment you offered makes no sense.
> •  The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
> ✦  In 1916, when the Sykes-Picot Agreement was made, there was no country or political subdivision of "Lebanon,"  Today's Lebanon was once the Sanjaks of Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon.​
> The comment you offered makes no sense.
> •  The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
> ✦  In 1918, when the when the Armistice of Mudros was signed, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today.  It was the Vilyet of Syria and what became Jordan​
> The comment you offered makes no sense.
> •  The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
> ✦  In 1922, when the Mandate was put into effect, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today.  It was still part of the Vilyet of Syria which was composed of Sanjaks of Hauran and Ma'an.   The southern half of the Sanjak of Damascus was also to become the northern portion of Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.
> The difference is obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, there are obvious differences.  But not many differences in the decisionmaking processes that guided nations in the years following the Great War (WW_I_).
> 
> I notice that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians and those that follow their cause (_Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter_) often attempt to make these arguments based on analogies:  Once again I remind you:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artice 22 (Sub-Paragraph 2) • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 22
> *Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> The definition of a crime shall be *strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy*. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most every argument made by the Jihadists, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters in support of the Hostile Arab Palestinians of those Arab Palestinian people claiming to want "their rights" employ tactics using the unlawful and intentional use of force _(explosives, rocket fire, kidnapping, murder and other lethal lethal activities)_ in or against various defined public places with intent to cause serious bodily injury _(callous disregard for human life)_, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that receive some sort of remuneration for conducting acts of violence don't perceive themselves as perpetrators conducting criminal acts directed against the State of Israel and its allies, intended or calculation to create a state of terror in the minds of the Israeli People, and to destabilize the Jewish National Home.  Yet everything about their past history is an encyclopedia of criminal behaviors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A balloon landed in Moshav Bitkha, near Ofakim, on Sunday night. This time, the colorful rubber orb carried no incendiary device—only a message in Arabic, which read:

"We, the people of Gaza, need medical treatment. Remove the blockade."


Well, “we, the people of Israel” would like to suggest that the blockade has nothing to do with your ability to obtain medical treatment for your people. Take all the European aid you receive and build hospitals. If you want to be a state, don't depend on your neighbors to provide you with basic necessities like medical care.
And don’t go crying to us about your poverty. You’ve launched thousands of rockets, mortars, and missiles into Israel. That costs money. Lots of money.




Take mortars, for instance. They cost $24,717, each. But when Israel hits back, there goes the mortar (and $24,717).

Mortar rounds can get expensive, too. They cost anywhere from $5.52-$438, depending on type. 
How about a Grad missile? They cost $1,000 a pop, if you’ll excuse the expression. (As an aside, the cost to intercept them with Iron Dome, is $100,000.)
--------------
But instead of making something of yourselves: making good, and caring for your own, your hate drives you only toward your own self-destruction.

The money will continue to dry up, and as it does, you might take a minute to rethink this whole thing. Build a hospital or two, try to stand on your own two feet. 

But we know you won’t. Because you really don’t care if your people live or die.

As long as you can continue to make war against the Jews.

(full article online)

To the People of Gaza: Buy Your Own Darn Hospitals (Judean Rose) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, this is another one of those inferences without substance. 

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 21768070, member: 21837
You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

Baby Steps:  Name one crime --- that you think would stick --- in this last year that you are sure is a crime...
Tell us what happened and then tell us what crime you think was committed.

Pick one you are sure of...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, this is another one of those inferences without substance.
> 
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 21768070, member: 21837
> You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.


*(COMMENT)*

Baby Steps:  Name one crime --- that you think would stick --- in this last year that you are sure is a crime...
Tell us what happened and then tell us what crime you think was committed.

Pick one you are sure of...

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Stealing land. Destroying private property. Military attacks on civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, this is another one of those inferences without substance.
> 
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 21768070, member: 21837
> You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Baby Steps:  Name one crime --- that you think would stick --- in this last year that you are sure is a crime...
> Tell us what happened and then tell us what crime you think was committed.
> 
> Pick one you are sure of...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Stealing land. Destroying private property. Military attacks on civilians.

[/QUOTE]

Your usual canned, cut and paste YouTube video is evidence of nothing.


----------



## Hollie

I would be curious to know if anyone is surprised that islamic terrorist dictators use arrest and torture to silence critics. 




Palestinian forces routinely arresting and torturing critics - HRW

Palestinian forces 'torturing critics'

The Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the occupied West Bank and Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip routinely arrest and torture peaceful critics and opponents, Human Rights Watch says.

A report based on interviews with former detainees alleges the rival factions have "established machineries of repression to crush dissent".


----------



## Hollie

Nothing says "Death Cult" like a large gathering of smiling Arabs-Moslems celebrating an islamic terrorist killer.

I suppose that a society promoting the worship of a 7th century Arab warlord and a cradle to grave indoctrination in the glory of mass murder / suicide will lead to some pretty dangerous pathologies.
*


PA Minister of Education honors murderer
*
PA Minister of Education honors murderer - PMW Bulletins


*Ceremony with murderer's mother at ministry 
is "gesture of loyalty" to terrorist murderer Karim Younes

Minister conveyed greetings to terrorist and his family
from PA leadership and Fatah Central Committee*

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
The Palestinian Authority continues to honor murderer Karim Younes, who is one of the so-called Palestinian "veteran" prisoners and serving time for kidnapping and murdering Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980.

This week, PA Minister of Education Sabri Saidam led the way at a ceremony at the PA Ministry of Education. Younes' mother was guest of honor and Minister Saidam stressed that the ceremony was "*a gesture of loyalty to prisoner Younes and his family*," and "conveyed the greetings of the Palestinian leadership and the [Fatah] Central Committee members to them." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 4, 2019]






The minister emphasized the PA's support for murderer Younes and other imprisoned terrorists, calling them "symbols":

*Minister Saidam:* "The Ministry of Education will remain the most loyal to the national values and to the symbols who have defended the national enterprise."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 4, 2019]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Puppets on a String Draw Children’s Smiles in Gaza


----------



## Hollie

*As so-called ‘honor killers’ get away with murder, Palestinians say law, judges outdated.*

*As so-called ‘honor killers’ get away with murder, Palestinians say law, judges outdated*

The Palestinians in the West Bank inherited Article 99, [_the "honor killing" get out of jail free card -ed_.] as well as the bulk of their penal code, from their former rulers, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

Despite a series of reforms to the Palestinian legal code since 2011 aimed at preventing so-called “honor killings,” the law has continued to allow men who murder, assault and rape women in the Palestinian territories to receive significantly reduced sentences.

Over the past half year, a petition initiated by Palestinian women’s rights groups has received over 12,000 signatures asking Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to do away with the measure, which allows judges to use their discretion in cases that have “extenuating circumstances.”

Yet while the law’s effect on women is well-known and well-documented, neither canceling, freezing nor amending it is in the cards.

According to a legal adviser for the Palestinian Authority’s Women’s Affairs Ministry, the law is necessary to ensure justice in some cases.


"...the law is necessary to ensure justice in some cases."* (((Record Scratch Sound Effect)))*


----------



## Sixties Fan

A four year old Palestinian child was abandoned by his father at Erez crossing on Tuesday, COGAT [Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories]  said in a press release on Thursday, after leaving his child with a stranger the father chose to remain in Israel illegally. 


The numbers of Palestinian parents entering Israel with children in need of medical care and abandoning them at Erez Crossing are on the rise, COGAT warns. 

(full article online)

Palestinians abandon children at Erez crossing - COGAT warns


----------



## Sixties Fan

Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Conclusion from the report: *
_*"This report demonstrates that Fatah's Facebook page is repeatedly in violation of Facebook standards and that there can be no justification for Facebook to allow its continued operation."*_







PMW's fundamental finding is that Fatah actively uses Facebook to glorify murderers, both past and contemporary, and to encourage violence. Fatah is in clear violation of Facebook's Community Standards, which prohibit use of its platform by those involved in "terrorist activity" or for "praise for individuals involved in these activities." 

Palestinian terror can be divided into three categories by periods: Pre-Oslo Terror, Post-Oslo Terror, and Contemporary Terror. Fatah uses Facebook to glorify terrorists and attacks from all of these periods. 

*Pre-Oslo Terror* includes *the Munich Olympics massacre* of 11 Israeli athletes in 1972 and the *Coastal Road massacre* of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults in 1978. Both of these attacks as well as other murderous attacks and terrorists from this period were glorified by Fatah on Facebook in 2018. 

*Post-Oslo Terror* includes the hundreds of suicide bombings, shootings, and stabbings which have murdered more than 1,600 Israelis [mfa.gov.il] since the Oslo peace accords were signed between Israel and the PLO in 1993. Terrorists such as *Ahmed Yassin*, founder of Hamas; *Nasser Awais*, one of the founders of Fatah's terror wing the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, were responsible for hundreds of murders in the post-Oslo period, especially during the PA's terror campaign, the second intifada (2000-2005). Both these terror leaders and many other terrorists from that period were glorified by Fatah on Facebook in 2018. 

*Contemporary Terror* includes attacks by Palestinian terrorists that continue today. For example the murder of two young Israelis, Kim Levengrond-Yehezkel, 29, mother of a 15-month-old, and Ziv Hajbi, 35, father of three, who were shot and killed by their Palestinian co-worker. They were murdered in 2018 and their murderer, along with others who killed Israelis that year, were glorified by Fatah on Facebook in 2018.

(full article online)

PMW Report on Fatah's Facebook in 2018: PMW called on FB to close terror supporting account - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

FACEBOOK SHUTS DOWN PALESTINIAN NEWS SITE’S ACCOUNT

Gee whiz. Those "poor, oppressed Pal'istanians" are lamenting the fact that their use of kuffar technology to incite acts of islamic terrorism has limits. 

From spring of 2018.

Facebook disables Palestinian news site’s account


_“We were totally surprised,” the social media manager said.

Over the weekend, Facebook disabled the account of Safa, a Gaza-based Palestinian news site; it had almost 1.3 million followers.

Safa is widely seen as sympathetic to Hamas, but an employee at the news site said in a phone call that the media outlet is “independent” and “has no relationship with Hamas.”

Facebook disabled Safa’s account, along with the accounts of 10 Safa editors, just after 5 p.m. on Saturday, without issuing a warning or providing an explanation, a manager of Safa’s social media team told The Jerusalem Post.



A Facebook spokeswoman declined to comment on the disabling of Safa’s account. However, in the past 18 months, Facebook has disabled several Palestinian news sites and leaders’ accounts for allegedly inciting violence against Israelis._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent


Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
Click to expand...

It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
Click to expand...

You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
Click to expand...

Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.
Click to expand...

Not true.  Look at what Obama and others did.  They made it easier to accuse of Israel of things it had not done.

But you do not care to acknowledge that.

And let me not include how just about every government allows the BDS to not only be everywhere, but allows anti Israel idiots to attack any and all Jews and non Jews who are pro Israel, in schools, universities, etc.

You simply keep trying to make the US, where you live, as the bad guy, who should be for terrorists, the PA, Hamas, the Palestinians, and others, and not for people of peace, the Jews and Israel.

Your nonsense will continue to not work on intelligent people.

But do not worry.  There are Plenty of useful idiots like you.  Just ask Rehami and others like him.

Your "christian beliefs"  trump facts and intelligence ALL THE TIME.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.  Look at what Obama and others did.  They made it easier to accuse of Israel of things it had not done.
> 
> But you do not care to acknowledge that.
> 
> And let me not include how just about every government allows the BDS to not only be everywhere, but allows anti Israel idiots to attack any and all Jews and non Jews who are pro Israel, in schools, universities, etc.
> 
> You simply keep trying to make the US, where you live, as the bad guy, who should be for terrorists, the PA, Hamas, the Palestinians, and others, and not for people of peace, the Jews and Israel.
> 
> Your nonsense will continue to not work on intelligent people.
> 
> But do not worry.  There are Plenty of useful idiots like you.  Just ask Rehami and others like him.
> 
> Your "christian beliefs"  trump facts and intelligence ALL THE TIME.
Click to expand...

Balderdash, you are clueless.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.  Look at what Obama and others did.  They made it easier to accuse of Israel of things it had not done.
> 
> But you do not care to acknowledge that.
> 
> And let me not include how just about every government allows the BDS to not only be everywhere, but allows anti Israel idiots to attack any and all Jews and non Jews who are pro Israel, in schools, universities, etc.
> 
> You simply keep trying to make the US, where you live, as the bad guy, who should be for terrorists, the PA, Hamas, the Palestinians, and others, and not for people of peace, the Jews and Israel.
> 
> Your nonsense will continue to not work on intelligent people.
> 
> But do not worry.  There are Plenty of useful idiots like you.  Just ask Rehami and others like him.
> 
> Your "christian beliefs"  trump facts and intelligence ALL THE TIME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balderdash, you are clueless.
Click to expand...

If YOU say so, it MUST be so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.
Click to expand...


Your silly rants belong in the conspiracy theory forum.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly rants belong in the conspiracy theory forum.
Click to expand...

What conspiracies?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. Canadian PhD student shot by Israeli sniper. Crickets, even from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a shame that Canada and the US place Israel above their own citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do know that it is a lie.  You just need to be disgusting, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true. Our governments let Israel do whatever it wants without a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly rants belong in the conspiracy theory forum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What conspiracies?
Click to expand...


Your conspiracies.


----------



## Hollie

The following really begs the question why facebook hasn't closed the account of the islamic terrorists in the PA. 

*
Facebook labels Palestinian journalism "hate speech"*

On Saturday, the social media giant closed without warning the page of the Safa Palestinian Press Agency, which had 1.3 million followers, as well as Safa’s account on the photo sharing site Instagram.


----------



## Hollie

The pathology of hate that grips the Arabs-Moslems parading around as "Pal'istanians" gets more desperate by the day.

The islamic dictator ruling the mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan wants to believe his fiefdom has returned to those halcyon days of 7th century war and conquest of the Islamist gee-had.

https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Watch-Normalizing-racism-and-Palestinian-incitement-579944

"With the help of Allah, every shaheed (martyr) will be in heaven, and every wounded will get his reward," Mahmoud Abbas said.

"We welcome every drop of blood spilled in Jerusalem. This is pure blood, clean blood, blood on its way to Allah."


----------



## Hollie

Let's hope that the folks at Facebook make the right choice and close down the bit of kuffar technology used by islamic terrorists to incite, glorify and promote their Jew killing exhortations.

*
Israeli watchdog to Facebook: Remove Abbas' party's page - exclusive
*
In a letter, sent to Zuckerberg Thursday - and reviewed first by _The Jerusalem Post_ - Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) CEO Itamar Marcus and Head of Legal Strategies Maurice Hirsch claim that Palestinian terrorists carried out terrorist attacks in 2018 “influenced by Fatah’s glorification of murder and its promotion of violence on its Facebook page.”


----------



## Hollie

While the title of the article seems a bit like stating the obvious, the root causes of Arab-Moslem terrorism run much deeper. Worship of a 7th century Arab warlord and 1,400 years of Islamic inspired Jew hatreds are not going away when a culture refuses to recognize the passage of time.
*



Peace isn't going to be possible as long as Palestinian schools are teaching children to hate
*
Peace isn't going to be possible as long as Palestinian schools are teaching children to hate

Fatah, the largest faction of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, has announced the publication of four new booklets for children in which notorious terrorists and their actions are glorified, according to a recent news report by the Middle East Media Research Institute.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Erekat calls Arab normalization with Israel a "stab in the back" for Palestinians. (Get used to it.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Symptom of "fear."



Sixties Fan said:


> Erekat calls Arab normalization with Israel a "stab in the back" for Palestinians. (Get used to it.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

I like it.  Few things are better these days then having an Arab Palestinian Mouth Piece running scared and disenchanted_*!*_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why Palestinians Oppose an Anti-Iran Coalition


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel Thrives: "Palestinians" and BDS


----------



## rylah

*Palestinians: Should Israelis trust you?*


----------



## Hollie

Basically, what one might expect from Islamic terrorists. They’re fine with Jew killing but take offense when their war planning and weapons storage facilities, (aka mosques) are searched for Islamic killers.
*



PA minister ignores brutal murder of young Israeli woman, *
*but criticizes Israel for searching in mosque *
*for murderer* 

PA minister ignores brutal murder of young Israeli woman but criticizes Israel for searching in mosque for murderer - PMW Bulletins


*PA Minister: "This cowardly attack against a religious and sacred place of worship, without any consideration for its sanctity and its religious and spiritual value, constitutes part of a series of daily attacks against our Islamic and Christian holy sites"*

*Undercover Israeli soldiers entered mosque in search for suspected murderer, and took footage from the mosque's security camera, leading to arrest of murderer in nearby building*

*19-year-old Israeli woman was brutally attacked and stabbed to death in a Jerusalem forest *







_Ori Ansbacher _


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA TV preacher says: "Jews pass on evil in their genes, humanity will never be able to live with them"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab media, while not glorifying Ori Ansbacher murder, still dehumanizes her ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> Peace isn't going to be possible as long as Palestinian schools are teaching children to hate.



AS long as the Zionist Israeli's murder Palestinian children, dump sewage on Palestinian farm land, spit on Christians and Palestinians in the street; the only thing the Israeli's deserve is a one way fast tract to hell 

-


----------



## Sixties Fan

*After Palestinian suspect was arrested two years ago attempting to enter Temple Mount with a knife, he told investigators he was trying to get sent to prison*

(full article online)

In 2017, Ori Ansbacher’s alleged killer told Shin Bet he wanted to be a ‘martyr’


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> *After Palestinian suspect was arrested two years ago attempting to enter Temple Mount with a knife, he told investigators he was trying to get sent to prison*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In 2017, Ori Ansbacher’s alleged killer told Shin Bet he wanted to be a ‘martyr’




I think there is a good case to be made here for expulsion.


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peace isn't going to be possible as long as Palestinian schools are teaching children to hate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AS long as the Zionist Israeli's murder Palestinian children, dump sewage on Palestinian farm land, spit on Christians and Palestinians in the street; the only thing the Israeli's deserve is a one way fast tract to hell
> 
> -
Click to expand...


You work alongside PF Tinmore at the Islamic terrorist slogan factory, right?


----------



## watchingfromafar

It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned

In a radio interview, Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel describes how a sniper identifies the “small body” of a child and is given authorization to shoot.

Fogel’s statements could be used as evidence of intent if Israeli leaders are ever tried for war crimes at the International Criminal Court.

On Friday, an Israeli sniper shot dead 14-year-old Muhammad Ibrahim Ayyoub.

The boy, shot in the head east of Jabaliya, was the fourth child among the more than 30 Palestinians killed during the Great March of Return rallies that began in Gaza on 30 March.

More than 1,600 other Palestinians have been shot with live ammunition that has caused what doctors are calling “horrific injuries” likely to leave many of them with permanent disabilities.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned



Didn't you just say you weren't anti-zionist?  Didn't you just say that you believed in the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland?  

And then you go and use "zionism" (which MEANS Jewish people having rights to their own homeland) as a designation of evil, while also continuing the lies you began on the other thread.


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned
> 
> In a radio interview, Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel describes how a sniper identifies the “small body” of a child and is given authorization to shoot.
> 
> Fogel’s statements could be used as evidence of intent if Israeli leaders are ever tried for war crimes at the International Criminal Court.
> 
> On Friday, an Israeli sniper shot dead 14-year-old Muhammad Ibrahim Ayyoub.
> 
> The boy, shot in the head east of Jabaliya, was the fourth child among the more than 30 Palestinians killed during the Great March of Return rallies that began in Gaza on 30 March.
> 
> More than 1,600 other Palestinians have been shot with live ammunition that has caused what doctors are calling “horrific injuries” likely to leave many of them with permanent disabilities.
> 
> View attachment 245221
> 
> *The above is a true child murderer and he is not alone in that hideous trade. This one should be expelled but where, hell perhaps?*



When Islamics wage gee-had at the Israeli border, there are consequences.


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned
> 
> In a radio interview, Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel describes how a sniper identifies the “small body” of a child and is given authorization to shoot.
> 
> Fogel’s statements could be used as evidence of intent if Israeli leaders are ever tried for war crimes at the International Criminal Court.
> 
> On Friday, an Israeli sniper shot dead 14-year-old Muhammad Ibrahim Ayyoub.
> 
> The boy, shot in the head east of Jabaliya, was the fourth child among the more than 30 Palestinians killed during the Great March of Return rallies that began in Gaza on 30 March.
> 
> More than 1,600 other Palestinians have been shot with live ammunition that has caused what doctors are calling “horrific injuries” likely to leave many of them with permanent disabilities.
> 
> View attachment 245221
> 
> *The above is a true child murderer and he is not alone in that hideous trade. This one should be expelled but where, hell perhaps?*


How sweet.

You got it from one of your conspiracy theory sites and decided to come and share it with us.

Conspiracies here, conspiracies there.  Conspiracies everywhere  




The solution to Gaza: 'A bullet to the head'

[The General is correct.  Showing weakness to the Barbarians only makes them want to kill more Jews.

Time to get really tough on them Israel.]

General: 'I want to vomit from shame'


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Conspiracies here, conspiracies there. Conspiracies everywhere



Heres looking at you you tasty thingee my sweet -


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conspiracies here, conspiracies there. Conspiracies everywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heres looking at you
> 
> View attachment 245224
Click to expand...

Oooooooh, so scary !!!!!!!   Mommy, Daddy.......help !!!!


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Oooooooh, so scary !!!!!!! Mommy, Daddy.......help !!!!



*Ezekiel*

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, *and prophesy against the land of Israel*,

3 *And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee*, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.

4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:

9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:

12 *Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people*: smite therefore upon thy thigh.

13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.

17 *I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.*

20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.

24 *Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear*; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

25 *And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come*, when iniquity shall have an end,

27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, *whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end*.

30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.

31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.

32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *Sixties Fan*, *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it.

*Note*- I added the "Sixties Fan" because it fits to a tee, my sweet plump dumpling -


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooh, so scary !!!!!!! Mommy, Daddy.......help !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ezekiel*
> 
> 1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
> 
> 2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, *and prophesy against the land of Israel*,
> 
> 3 *And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee*, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
> 
> 4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
> 
> 9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:
> 
> 12 *Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people*: smite therefore upon thy thigh.
> 
> 13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.
> 
> 17 *I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.*
> 
> 20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
> 
> 24 *Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear*; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
> 
> 25 *And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come*, when iniquity shall have an end,
> 
> 27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
> 
> 29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, *whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end*.
> 
> 30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.
> 
> 31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
> 
> 32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *Sixties Fan*, *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it.
> 
> *Note*- I added the "Sixties Fan" because it fits to a tee, my sweet plump dumpling -
Click to expand...

LOL, what a religious hack you are.

So dumb.  So useful to all the idiots of the world like you.

A useless idiot.


----------



## Shusha

2019.  And demonization of the Jewish people is still fueled by religious hate. Ugh.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Shusha, watchingfromafar, _et al_,

This is the tanglefoot of the language and labels we use.  In this case what you think you heard is not what was meant to be conveyed.



Shusha said:


> watching from afar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just say you weren't anti-zionist?  Didn't you just say that you believed in the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland?
> 
> And then you go and use "Zionism" (which MEANS Jewish people having rights to their own homeland) as a designation of evil, while also continuing the lies you began on the other thread.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure there is a clear and concise definition of a "Zionist" that you can hang your hat on.  Zionist of differing eras explain "zionism" differently.

· They are Jewish are people.
· They believe Jewish People have the right to self-determination.
· The Zionist see Israel as including "Judea and Sumara."
· The Jewish people have a right to form a nation - of free people.​
The "baby killer theme" used to discredit the moral continuity of the opponent is just that, propaganda.  It very often reoccurs as a measure to employ when they have nothing else.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Shusha, watchingfromafar, _et al_,
> 
> This is the tanglefoot of the language and labels we use.  In this case what you think you heard is not what was meant to be conveyed.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watching from afar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just say you weren't anti-zionist?  Didn't you just say that you believed in the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland?
> 
> And then you go and use "Zionism" (which MEANS Jewish people having rights to their own homeland) as a designation of evil, while also continuing the lies you began on the other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure there is a clear and concise definition of a "Zionist" that you can hang your hat on.  Zionist of differing eras explain "zionism" differently.
> 
> · They are Jewish are people.
> · They believe Jewish People have the right to self-determination.
> · The Zionist see Israel as including "Judea and Sumara."
> · The Jewish people have a right to form a nation - of free people.​
> The "baby killer theme" used to discredit the moral continuity of the opponent is just that, propaganda.  It very often reoccurs as a measure to employ when they have nothing else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator.
There're liberal, conservative, democrat, republican,socialist, capitalist, progressive, feminist, LGBTQ, Christian, Muslim, Secular, Israeli and non-Israeli Zionists.

Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel, and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooh, so scary !!!!!!! Mommy, Daddy.......help !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ezekiel*
> 
> 1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
> 
> 2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, *and prophesy against the land of Israel*,
> 
> 3 *And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee*, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
> 
> 4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
> 
> 9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:
> 
> 12 *Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people*: smite therefore upon thy thigh.
> 
> 13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.
> 
> 17 *I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.*
> 
> 20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
> 
> 24 *Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear*; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
> 
> 25 *And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come*, when iniquity shall have an end,
> 
> 27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
> 
> 29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, *whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end*.
> 
> 30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.
> 
> 31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
> 
> 32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *Sixties Fan*, *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it.
> 
> *Note*- I added the "Sixties Fan" because it fits to a tee, my sweet plump dumpling -
Click to expand...


That's about Nebuchadnezzar's revenge against the nations which will rejoice in seeing Israel's misfortune.
Those who would not be remembered are the Ammonites who "divined" lies for themselves and prophesied vanity.

Bil'am thought he knew enough as well...


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Shusha, watchingfromafar, _et al_,
> 
> This is the tanglefoot of the language and labels we use.  In this case what you think you heard is not what was meant to be conveyed.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watching from afar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just say you weren't anti-zionist?  Didn't you just say that you believed in the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland?
> 
> And then you go and use "Zionism" (which MEANS Jewish people having rights to their own homeland) as a designation of evil, while also continuing the lies you began on the other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure there is a clear and concise definition of a "Zionist" that you can hang your hat on.  Zionist of differing eras explain "zionism" differently.
> 
> · They are Jewish are people.
> · They believe Jewish People have the right to self-determination.
> · The Zionist see Israel as including "Judea and Sumara."
> · The Jewish people have a right to form a nation - of free people.​
> The "baby killer theme" used to discredit the moral continuity of the opponent is just that, propaganda.  It very often reoccurs as a measure to employ when they have nothing else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator.
> There're liberal, conservative, democrat, republican,socialist, capitalist, progressive, feminist, LGBTQ, Christian, Muslim, Secular, Israeli and non-Israeli Zionists.
> 
> Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel, and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.
Click to expand...


Didn't also find its origins in The Dreyfuss Affair?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Shusha, watchingfromafar, _et al_,
> 
> This is the tanglefoot of the language and labels we use.  In this case what you think you heard is not what was meant to be conveyed.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watching from afar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just say you weren't anti-zionist?  Didn't you just say that you believed in the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland?
> 
> And then you go and use "Zionism" (which MEANS Jewish people having rights to their own homeland) as a designation of evil, while also continuing the lies you began on the other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure there is a clear and concise definition of a "Zionist" that you can hang your hat on.  Zionist of differing eras explain "zionism" differently.
> 
> · They are Jewish are people.
> · They believe Jewish People have the right to self-determination.
> · The Zionist see Israel as including "Judea and Sumara."
> · The Jewish people have a right to form a nation - of free people.​
> The "baby killer theme" used to discredit the moral continuity of the opponent is just that, propaganda.  It very often reoccurs as a measure to employ when they have nothing else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator.
> There're liberal, conservative, democrat, republican,socialist, capitalist, progressive, feminist, LGBTQ, Christian, Muslim, Secular, Israeli and non-Israeli Zionists.
> 
> Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel, and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't also find its origins in The Dreyfuss Affair?
Click to expand...

Mindful 

A bit later, during Hertzl time.
Jewish press and political representation in the diaspora already organized in cooperation as a result of the Damascus blood libel 50 years earlier, which gained much international attention to the plight of the Jews in the middle east.

In historic terms both the Jewish communities in the middle east and Europe experienced a devastating wave of violence almost simultaneously in a short span of time, but to be more specific it were the Jews living in Israel and Syria who's call for help gave the initial push to independence.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Mindful, rylah, _et al_,

I think that, with the exception of the emerging Arab central theme opposing the establishment of a Jewish National Home → in that same time frame _(late 1900s - early 20th Century)_, the Military Court-Martial was a great tragedy for the Western Powers of the day and a blight on the integrity of the French General Staff _(which could do no wrong)_. 



Mindful said:


> Didn't also find its origins in The Dreyfuss Affair?


*(SIDE-BAR)*

It was not until Colonel Georges Picquart _(Director of French Military Counterintelligence)_ realized the mistake in investigation and subsequent conviction of Captain Dreyfus, that the real discrimination began to emerge.  Colonel Georges Picquart had determined that a different French Officer _[Major (original commission acquired through family influence)(French Foreign Legion_} _Marie Charles "Ferdinand" Walsin-Esterhazy]_ was responsible for feeding the Germans critical French military plans. 

*(COMMENT)*

Major Marie Charles "Ferdinand" Walsin-Esterhazy was of nobility and son of a decorated French General and hero in the Crimean War.  The French General Staff was not interested in draging the family name through the mud.  Nor was the French General Staff willing to openly admit it had made a mistake in the investigation and prosecution of Captain Dreyfus. 

The French General Staff was not only interested in down-playing the wrongful conviction of an innocent officer, but also the fact that a "Jewish" Officer was prosecuted as opposed to a Field Grade Officer with "aristocratic" connections and an irregular military commission.

Just as a diamond has many facets, in the era of the Dreyfus Affair, many events came together that influenced Jewish history.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are striking similarities between the murder of the 19-year-old Israeli woman Ori Ansbacher a few days ago and the murder of the 25-year-old Israeli woman Moran Amit in 2002. Both were attacked by Palestinian terrorists while walking peacefully in a Jerusalem forest. Both were stabbed to death. 

In 2002, Moran was taking a walk with a friend in the Shalom Forest in Jerusalem when five teenage terrorists hunted them, attacked them, and stabbed Moran to death. Last week, Ori was walking through the Ein Yael forest in Jerusalem on the way from the youth center where she volunteered when a Palestinian terrorist brutally attacked her and then stabbed her to death.










Moran Amit,  murdered by Palestinians in a forest in 2002 

Ori Ansbacher,  murdered by a Palestinian in a forest in 2019


And there are also similarities between the PA’s reaction to the two murders. In both cases, the PA did not condemn the terror. And more than that, in response to both terror attacks, the PA this week chose to present Palestinians as the victims.

(full article online)

Striking similarities between stabbings of 2 young Israeli women - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border Guard Thwarts Stabbing Attack in Tomb of the Patriarchs


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Arab torches security camera in East Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Ah, what all of this money could have done for Gaza, but did not, but could have done to all the African countries in real need for help ]

Qatar gave over $1.1 billion to Gaza Strip from 2012-18, ministers told


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Ah, what all of this money could have done for Gaza, but did not, but could have done to all the African countries in real need for help ]
> 
> Qatar gave over $1.1 billion to Gaza Strip from 2012-18, ministers told



Daddy Mahmoud needs a new pair of shoes private jet.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians threaten intifada if Israel deducts salaries to terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

However, Gold pointed to what he thinks is UNRWA’s worst sin: The “conversion of the Palestinian refugee problem to a challenge locked into perpetuity.”

In other words, he said, “if you look at other refugee situations—Europe after World War II—all those refugees have been settled. Whereas, in the case of the Palestinian refugees who are taken care of by UNRWA, the numbers have only increased from about half a million in 1948 to what UNRWA claims is over 5 million today. That represents a total failure of UNRWA as a refugee organization.”

Other refugees around the world have been repatriated. Of the millions displaced after World War II, not one is a refugee today. The 15 million Hindus and Muslims forced to move when India and Pakistan split, are no longer refugees. Bosnian and Kosovar Muslims kicked out of Serbia are no longer refugees. Not a single one of the 850,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands is today a refugee.

So why are Palestinian refugees treated differently than other refugees?

Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas has answered this question himself. He has referred to Palestinian refugees everywhere as “guests” waiting to return to their homes and has refused to allow Palestinians to be repatriated in their host countries so as not to give up their “right of return.”

And P.A. spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina has said, “The issue of the Palestinian refugees and their right of return is one of the issues in a permanent arrangement, and no one can make changes to it … ”

The Palestinian leadership themselves, together with other Arab states as well as UNRWA, refuse to allow any repatriation of Palestinian refugees outside of Israel. The responsibility for a “just and lasting solution” for the Palestinian refugees, as per UN resolution 194, has been laid squarely on Israel’s shoulders, while ignoring the responsibility of the Arab states that refuse to absorb the Palestinian refugees already residing within their borders.

According to many well-documented statements by Palestinian and Arab leaders themselves, the Palestinian refugees have been used as pawns and a weapon in the fight against Israel.

(full article online)

New report highlights how UN gives singular treatment to Palestinian refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What Hypocrites.  They have ben given Billions, from America, to Europe to Arab countries.  They have Millions or more stashed away for themselves, and then they have the guts to say this: ]

PLO Secretary-General Saeb Erekat, who is currently visiting Egypt, complained on Sunday that the US administration has already cut hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians.

The move, he said, has left road, school and sanitation projects in the West Bank and Gaza Strip unfinished. All scholarships to Palestinian students have also been halted, Erekat said.

(full article online)

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...-we-will-spend-it-on-prisoners-martyrs-580270


[ And not too many non leaders in Gaza and the PA are aware that all the money they usually get do not go to take care of them, create jobs, infrastructure, etc .    So, the vicious cycle remains ]


----------



## watchingfromafar

rylah said:


> Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator..



*Zionism*_ (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements.[5][6][7] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[8][9][10]_

Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.
Zionism - Wikipedia



There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.



rylah said:


> _Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel_



There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

The only place where the Jews lived for an extended time was in Egypt. Before living in Egypt the Jews were sheep herder's who lived on the open plains and never had a county/state of their own.



rylah said:


> and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.



Damascus is a city in Syria and has nothing to do with Palestine.
Damascus - New World Encyclopedia

*Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world*
Damascus is the capital of Syria and one of the most ancient cities in the world. Controversial explanations have been made to guess etymological origin of the name of the Syrian capital city. Some hold that damashaq means the fast-moving camel... _Read article_
Welcome to Old Damascus

The truth will set you free, my friend -


----------



## watchingfromafar

A *homeland for the Jewish people* is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was *Zionism as promoted by* Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out *his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people* in his book _Der Judenstaat_. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zionism*_ (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements.[5][6][7] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[8][9][10]_
> 
> Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.
> Zionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.
> 
> The only place where the Jews lived for an extended time was in Egypt. Before living in Egypt the Jews were sheep herder's who lived on the open plains and never had a county/state of their own.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damascus is a city in Syria and has nothing to do with Palestine.
> Damascus - New World Encyclopedia
> 
> *Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world*
> Damascus is the capital of Syria and one of the most ancient cities in the world. Controversial explanations have been made to guess etymological origin of the name of the Syrian capital city. Some hold that damashaq means the fast-moving camel... _Read article_
> Welcome to Old Damascus
> 
> The truth will set you free, my friend -
Click to expand...

The truth hits you over the head every day and you are not happy with it.

You are trying to wipe out 3000 years of a Nation called Israel which existed for over 1000 years, even if some of its name was sometimes changed, or what was left of it was Judea.

You do not care what Zionism is, when it started, etc, etc.
No Jewish history is history to you.

To you the Jewish people HAVE NO HISTORY.

Which is why you take the Damascus Affair, and turn it into Non history.  It never happened.

We do not care if you like Jews, Israel and Zionism, and which Christian or Muslim fairy tales turned you into the person you are, who does nothing but deny and delegitimize Jews and dehumanize them out of their historical and legal right to live in their ancient land and be sovereign of their destiny.


Go and deal with your hate issues......or not.

Am Israel Chai 

The People of Israel Live


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zionism*_ (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements.[5][6][7] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[8][9][10]_
> 
> Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.
> Zionism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.
> 
> The only place where the Jews lived for an extended time was in Egypt. Before living in Egypt the Jews were sheep herder's who lived on the open plains and never had a county/state of their own.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damascus is a city in Syria and has nothing to do with Palestine.
> Damascus - New World Encyclopedia
> 
> *Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world*
> Damascus is the capital of Syria and one of the most ancient cities in the world. Controversial explanations have been made to guess etymological origin of the name of the Syrian capital city. Some hold that damashaq means the fast-moving camel... _Read article_
> Welcome to Old Damascus
> 
> The truth will set you free, my friend -
Click to expand...


Sometimes it looks You look for the most self defeating arguments.

There definitely was a state called Israel and a living nation that never ceased to exist, for someone to quote from the Bible and in the same breath say this is utterly ridiculous. It looks no less ridiculous when You quote from a source that specifically refers to "re-constitution".

Palestine was called Southern Syria, if You don't know such basic facts, go cure Your ignorance, then talk about truth.


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> A *homeland for the Jewish people* is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was *Zionism as promoted by* Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out *his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people* in his book _Der Judenstaat_. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]



Modern Zionism didn't start with Hertzl, he was born 20 years after the liberation movement started:

Theodor Herzl's paternal grandfather, Simon Loeb Herzl, reportedly attended Alkalai's synagogue in Semlin and the two frequently visited. Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl "had his hands on" one of the first copies of Alkalai's 1857 work prescribing the "return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem." Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl's own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[5]

Judah Alkalai - Wikipedia

BTW Rabbi Alklai wasn't the first modern Zionist either, those were the people who actually lived in the land and built new neighborhoods in Jerusalem.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> A *homeland for the Jewish people* is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was *Zionism as promoted by* Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out *his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people* in his book _Der Judenstaat_. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern Zionism didn't start with Hertzl, he was born 20 years after the liberation movement started:
> 
> Theodor Herzl's paternal grandfather, Simon Loeb Herzl, reportedly attended Alkalai's synagogue in Semlin and the two frequently visited. Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl "had his hands on" one of the first copies of Alkalai's 1857 work prescribing the "return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem." Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl's own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[5]
> 
> Judah Alkalai - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Why are you debating with ignorance, hate and stupidity?


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> A *homeland for the Jewish people* is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was *Zionism as promoted by* Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out *his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people* in his book _Der Judenstaat_. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern Zionism didn't start with Hertzl, he was born 20 years after the liberation movement started:
> 
> Theodor Herzl's paternal grandfather, Simon Loeb Herzl, reportedly attended Alkalai's synagogue in Semlin and the two frequently visited. Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl "had his hands on" one of the first copies of Alkalai's 1857 work prescribing the "return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem." Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl's own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[5]
> 
> Judah Alkalai - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are you debating with ignorance, hate and stupidity?
Click to expand...

Because it's me and my family he's attacking, we need to care about each other.
Geula Cohen once said "I'm almost 4000 years old as my people, 56 years old as my country today. I'm 77 years old  by biological age, and 18 in spirit of the struggle of my people".

If Israelis keep silent prepare Your bunker, the laws of nature have been just abolished.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> *Zionism*_ ... is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel ... (it arose) as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements...
> _
> Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.



And you support all this, right?


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.



Not true.  Demonstrably, patently not true. 

But, even if if WAS true, what difference does it make?  Are only nation/states which were historically nation/states permitted to be nation/states?  And only if the nation/state was called by the same name?


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> You are trying to wipe out 3000 years of a Nation called Israel which existed for over 1000 years



The State of Israel was created in 1947ad



Sixties Fan said:


> _even if some of its name was sometimes changed, or what was left of it was Judea_.



"sometimes changed".,.,.,.,.lol



Sixties Fan said:


> _You do not care what Zionism is, when it started, etc, etc_.



Finally we have something we can agree on.



Sixties Fan said:


> No Jewish history is history to you.



I'm Jewish by birth but not by faith



Sixties Fan said:


> _To you the Jewish people HAVE NO HISTORY_


.

I know Jewish history, you make it up on the fly
(Gen 42:25 KJV) _ Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:_

(Gen 45:20 KJV)  _Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours._

(Gen 45:21 KJV)  _And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, *according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.*_

(Gen 47:1 KJV)  _Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, *and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan;* and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen._

(Gen 47:3 KJV)  _And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, *What is your occupation? *And they said unto Pharaoh, *Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.*_

Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wanderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.



Sixties Fan said:


> .Which is why you take the Damascus Affair, and turn it into Non history.  It never happened.



You brought up Damascus, I just responded to your false representation of Damascus



Sixties Fan said:


> We do not care if you like Jews, Israel and Zionism



Who is "we" my sweet-?
btw: I don't care what you like or dislike. In fact, I don't care one way or the other; period; it is a waste of brain width



Sixties Fan said:


> Christian or Muslim fairy tales turned you into the person you are



Oh I see, you are not Christian and you are not a Muslim then you are a Jew who has never lived in "Israel" and do not even intend to visit your supposed homeland.

Oh, so sad, so very, very sad indeed



Sixties Fan said:


> who does nothing but deny and delegitimize Jews and dehumanize them out of their historical and legal right to live in their ancient land



I will say this once again. The land now called Israel is NOT the Jewish homeland.
_*
Promised Land*
“*Moses went up Mount Nebo* to the top of Pisgah, looked over the *promised land of Israel* spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly. _

* Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan *_running along the eastern shore of the _*Dead Sea. *_In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west._

_The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King_ _Omri of Israel. Their capital was _*Dibon, *_located next to the modern Jordanian town of _*Dhiban.*_”
Moab - New World Encyclopedia_



Sixties Fan said:


> The People of Israel Live



*Sixties Fan*, back to you; the truth hits you over the head every day and you are not happy with it; such is life, you can either live with it or not or you can change your ways & leave the hate behind 

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> even if if WAS true, what difference does it make?



It wouldn't make any difference at all. What matters today is what they do now, not what they may or may not have done in the past. 

I pray they change their ways -


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> And you support all this, right?



I support biblical and historical truth, not fairytales

-


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you support all this, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I support biblical and historical truth, not fairytales
> 
> -
Click to expand...



You said just yesterday that you support Jewish history and the right of the Jewish people to their homeland.  

(Also, btw, the modern re-constitution of Israel as a State occurred in 1948 and not in 1947.  Try to keep up.)


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> even if if WAS true, what difference does it make?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wouldn't make any difference at all. What matters today is what they do now, not what they may or may not have done in the past.
> 
> I pray they change their ways -
Click to expand...

What Jews DO NOW is keep the Arab Palestinians, who want to kill them on a daily basis, taken care of in the matter of Health, Jobs and Education.

What Jews DO NOW is defend themselves in a way they did not have the right to do for the previous 1300 years under Muslim oppression.

What THEY DO now, is make sure that the targets they hit are military targets and that Israel is the ONLY country in the world which "Knocks" on the enemy's roof to make civilians leave and save their lives, before they hit the enemy building where those attacking Israel are hiding.


Do you really want the endless number of examples of how Jews continue to be one of the most moral people in the world, unlike those who insist in lying, stealing their identity, stealing their land, raping, dismembering, murdering, attacking or expelling Jews for the past 1400 years?


----------



## watchingfromafar

rylah said:


> Palestine was called Southern Syria, if You don't know such basic facts, go cure Your ignorance, then talk about truth.



Here is a bit of ignorance for you to chew on---

32 _Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it._

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
Jewish population by country - Wikipedia

Whatever you claim it was called you are not claiming it was called "Israel" because Israel was a person, not a place.
*King James Bible*
_ And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, *but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel*._

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> (Also, btw, the modern re-constitution of Israel as a State occurred in 1948 and not in 1947. Try to keep up.)



Thank you for that info-- it is now imbedded in my brain and will not go away again.

again thanks -


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you support all this, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I support biblical and historical truth, not fairytales
> 
> -
Click to expand...




watchingfromafar said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was called Southern Syria, if You don't know such basic facts, go cure Your ignorance, then talk about truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a bit of ignorance for you to chew on---
> 
> 32 _Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it._
> 
> According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
> Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
> 
> Whatever you claim it was called you are not claiming it was called "Israel" because Israel was a person, not a place.
> *King James Bible*
> _ And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, *but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel*._
> 
> -
Click to expand...

Whatever you say, you do know you are full of it with this game you are playing.

Wiping out ancient Israel in your head will not wipe it out from history books and all the ancient documents which are being preserved to this day.

So, what do you have to gain with this game?

nothing, absolutely nothing until there is nothing left, except for your 
attempts to wipe out a whole Nation and its people along with it for your religious satisfaction.

It does not work with intelligent people, anywhere in the world.

Remember that


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> _What Jews DO NOW is keep the Arab Palestinians, who want to kill them on a daily basis, taken care of in the matter of Health, Jobs and Education_



Oh how sweet, tears are coming from my eyes. But, but, but; your propaganda spill is nothing more than a pile of crapola for the blind to hear and never see.



Sixties Fan said:


> _What Jews DO NOW is defend themselves in a way they did not have the right to do for the previous 1300 years under Muslim oppression_.



Just more bla, bla, bla--- I have joined a large number of other Americans who are petitioning Congress to stop giving Israel $billions a year in handouts. We ask why do we give Israel a dime; they are not America's 51st state



Sixties Fan said:


> _What THEY DO now, is make sure that the targets they hit are military targets and that Israel is the ONLY country in the world which "Knocks" on the enemy's roof to make civilians leave and save their lives, before they hit the enemy building where those attacking Israel are hiding_.



Just more bla, bla, bla--- I have joined a large number of other Americans who are petitioning Congress to stop giving Israel $billions a year in handouts. WE ask why do we give them a dime; they are not America's 51st state



Sixties Fan said:


> _Do you really want the endless number of examples of how Jews continue to be one of the most moral people in the world_



In the Bible God tried over and over to get the Israeli's to love their neighbors as they love themselves but it was all in vain. 

BTW: When I read where you used the term "moral" I had to rush to the sink to throw up!!. Now that I have washed away the filth I'm back

*I have one request and only one-----------*
Stop using the term "Jew"; use Israeli instead, you are giving the Jewish people a bad name.

just a request
no animosity intended or implied
-


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What Jews DO NOW is keep the Arab Palestinians, who want to kill them on a daily basis, taken care of in the matter of Health, Jobs and Education_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh how sweet, tears are coming from my eyes. But, but, but; your propaganda spill is nothing more than a pile of crapola for the blind to hear and never see.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What Jews DO NOW is defend themselves in a way they did not have the right to do for the previous 1300 years under Muslim oppression_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just more bla, bla, bla--- I have joined a large number of other Americans who are petitioning Congress to stop giving Israel $billions a year in handouts. We ask why do we give Israel a dime; they are not America's 51st state
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> _What THEY DO now, is make sure that the targets they hit are military targets and that Israel is the ONLY country in the world which "Knocks" on the enemy's roof to make civilians leave and save their lives, before they hit the enemy building where those attacking Israel are hiding_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just more bla, bla, bla--- I have joined a large number of other Americans who are petitioning Congress to stop giving Israel $billions a year in handouts. WE ask why do we give them a dime; they are not America's 51st state
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Do you really want the endless number of examples of how Jews continue to be one of the most moral people in the world_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the Bible God tried over and over to get the Israeli's to love their neighbors as they love themselves but it was all in vain.
> 
> BTW: When I read where you used the term "moral" I had to rush to the sink to throw up!!. Now that I have washed away the filth I'm back
> 
> *I have one request and only one-----------*
> Stop using the term "Jew"; use Israeli instead, you are giving the Jewish people a bad name.
> 
> just a request
> no animosity intended or implied
> -
Click to expand...

I did not have to read beyond the first few words to realize that you are going to do anything in your power to delegitimize Israel andall Jews, AT ANY  TIME IN HISTORY.

You stay that way sick human.  

I will continue to use the right terminology for the country and the people from the time of Abraham to present time.

You go ahead and suffer.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> [
> 
> 32 _Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it._
> 
> According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
> Jewish population by country - Wikipedia



Oh lookie, more religious hatred.  Go back to the Middle Ages where this sort of murderous Xtian religious hatred belongs.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Wiping out ancient Israel in your head will not wipe it out from history books and all the ancient documents which are being preserved to this day.



If believing this helps you sleep at night where you can dream the impossible dream who am I to disturb your sleep



Sixties Fan said:


> So, what do you have to gain with this game?


*
God’s Chosen People*
I have a personal attachment to the Old Testament and the verses contained therein. This includes the verses where the Lord talked directly to the Israelite people. In this one-way discussion the Lord laid out directives (commandments) for them to follow and the blessing they would get if they followed His suggestions. I took these directives and compared them to historical events and found them wanting. Personally, I would like to see the Israeli people change their ways by embracing the stranger (Palestinian) and treat them as one of their own, just as the Lord instructed them to do. I truly believe this “example” would create a wave of peace across the middle east.

_I_ want the Israeli’s to embrace the Palestinians as one of their own, dismantle the illegal settlements and change the name of their country from “Israel” to “Palestine”.

I believe God is now judging them for the last time. If they do not ask God for forgiveness and repent for their past deeds; then all will be lost.



Sixties Fan said:


> nothing, absolutely nothing until there is nothing left, except for your attempts to wipe out a whole Nation and its people along with it for your religious satisfaction.



I am just one person among billions on the face of this earth. It is not me you need to worry about, it is the Lord and He is watching and judging at this moment and He will make His final judgement in you lifetime.

If you are living in Israel today all I can say is MOVE NOW before it is too late

just a suggestion


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> I did not have to read beyond the first few words



Oh come on, you can really read--?


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> _Oh lookie, more religious hatred_



Those words came out of the Bible, they were not my words; sweety; If you have a problem with God take it up with Him, not me; sweety



Shusha said:


> Go back to the Middle Ages where this sort of murderous Xtian religious hatred belongs.



I don't have to go back in history to find it, you are full of it in the here and now. Please give up the hate, embrace love and joy instead. Believe me you will feel a lot better for doing it.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> You said just yesterday that you support Jewish history and the right of the Jewish people to their homeland.



I do support Jewish history; I do not support the false claim that the land now being cruelly and inhumanely occupied today as their "homeland".


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said just yesterday that you support Jewish history and the right of the Jewish people to their homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do support Jewish history; I do not support the false claim that the land now being cruelly and inhumanely occupied today as their "homeland".
Click to expand...


So if it was their homeland you would totally support it. You just think the Jewish culture developed elsewhere, contrary to things like evidence.


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was called Southern Syria, if You don't know such basic facts, go cure Your ignorance, then talk about truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a bit of ignorance for you to chew on---
> 
> 32 _Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *thou shalt be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it._
> 
> According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
> Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
> 
> Whatever you claim it was called you are not claiming it was called "Israel" because Israel was a person, not a place.
> *King James Bible*
> _ And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, *but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel*._
> 
> -
Click to expand...


That's just ridiculous.

And still that verse is talking about the Ammonites, for that one at least has to read the whole chapter.
But hey You're not the first ignoramus to attempt teach Jews about their Torah, You're merely repeating the same self contradictions that were already old during the times of Nachmanides.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> _You just think the Jewish culture developed elsewhere, contrary to things like evidence_.



We are beating a dead horse here. Wherever the Israeli people came from is irrelevant. What matter is the here and now, the past can be debated until hell freezes over, so what-?

I am a religious person who takes biblical verses for their intent not content. 

If I; for a moment take biblical verses literally then God chose the Jewish people and gave them instructions on how they should live their lives. God then told them what they would get if they obeyed his commands and what they would get if they disobeyed His commands. Jesus followed by restating His commands and pointed out to the Jewish people what the Old Testament said; only then; it was the only Bible, there was no old and new version. 

Taking into account the above; I studied the Bible, His instruction to them and followed this from the past to the present. In the process I compiled this evidence and continue to present this evidence to the public through forums like this one.

I have a purpose for doing this and I pray I bear fruit from it.

The above is my confession of the day -


----------



## watchingfromafar

rylah said:


> And still that verse is talking about the Ammonites, for that one at least has to read the whole chapter.



NO it is NOT. If I need too I will repost the verses in question once again.

*Rylah*, you are living in denial; period -


----------



## watchingfromafar

rylah said:


> You're merely repeating the same self contradictions that were already old during the times of Nachmanides.



*Rylah*, You're merely repeating the same self contradictions that were already old during the times of Nachmanides.

-


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And still that verse is talking about the Ammonites, for that one at least has to read the whole chapter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO it is NOT. If I need too I will repost the verses in question once again.
> 
> *Rylah*, you are living in denial; period -
Click to expand...

Agha and a bunny laid eggs, while an Arabian sheikh flew on a Muslim Pegasus to Jerusalem.
Can't read a chapter in full, talks about denial


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And still that verse is talking about the Ammonites, for that one at least has to read the whole chapter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO it is NOT. If I need too I will repost the verses in question once again.
> 
> *Rylah*, you are living in denial; period -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't read a chapter in full, talks about denial
> Yes and a bunny laid eggs, while an Arabian sheikh flew on a Muslim Pegasus to Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

Chaver, there is no point anymore, is there?
I think the creature has made it very clear what it is about.
Wrong thread.  Wrong community. Time for it to talk to itself in the mirror, don't you think?


----------



## watchingfromafar

rylah said:


> Can't read a chapter in full, talks about denial



Finally the truth comes out, you can't read a chapter in full

That's ok, I had a short attention span when I was four (4) as well.

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Wrong thread. Wrong community. Time for it to talk to itself in the mirror, don't you think?



That's what I thought I was doing all along?

It's just another mistake along with dozens more in the past. It's just who I am

-


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And still that verse is talking about the Ammonites, for that one at least has to read the whole chapter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO it is NOT. If I need too I will repost the verses in question once again.
> 
> *Rylah*, you are living in denial; period -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't read a chapter in full, talks about denial
> Yes and a bunny laid eggs, while an Arabian sheikh flew on a Muslim Pegasus to Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chaver, there is no point anymore, is there?
> I think the creature has made it very clear what it is about.
> Wrong thread.  Wrong community. Time for it to talk to itself in the mirror, don't you think?
Click to expand...


Looks very strange, here in Israel proselytazing is forbidden.
Muslims usually keep such talks to themselve, for the mosques...never seen them being so ignorant
 as to pretend they actually know the Torah.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> _You just think the Jewish culture developed elsewhere, contrary to things like evidence_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are beating a dead horse here. Wherever the Israeli people came from is irrelevant. What matter is the here and now, the past can be debated until hell freezes over, so what-?
> 
> I am a religious person who takes biblical verses for their intent not content.
> 
> If I; for a moment take biblical verses literally then God chose the Jewish people and gave them instructions on how they should live their lives. God then told them what they would get if they obeyed his commands and what they would get if they disobeyed His commands. Jesus followed by restating His commands and pointed out to the Jewish people what the Old Testament said; only then; it was the only Bible, there was no old and new version.
> 
> Taking into account the above; I studied the Bible, His instruction to them and followed this from the past to the present. In the process I compiled this evidence and continue to present this evidence to the public through forums like this one.
> 
> I have a purpose for doing this and I pray I bear fruit from it.
> 
> The above is my confession of the day -
Click to expand...



You need to STOP Christ-splaining the Jewish faith to Jews.  It is not your job to "save" Jews from the horrific little god which you created when you usurped Jewish scripture and re-imagined it in a way which permits you to demonize, persecute, hate and wish genocide on the Jewish people.  Honestly, the worst evil imaginable in the world has been created and perpetrated by those who claim a "corrected" and "superior" replacement theology by stealing another faith and then Christ- or Mohammed-splaining it to them.

ONLY the people who hold faith with a religion get to decide the terms and meanings of their religious faith and the interpretation of their scriptures.  No one else. 

It is a very, very small step from "You'd better smarten up or god will getcha!" to "little god gave me permission to getcha myself."  Its ugly. 




And please don't misunderstand me.  There are beautiful concepts to be found in the Christian religion (and in Islam).  They both have their place in the world and both can be used to bring about peace and goodness and G-d's Intent for the world.  But THIS brand of Christianity is ugly, hateful and harmful.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> You need to STOP Christ-splaining the Jewish faith to Jews.



Who is "you" in your post?


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to STOP Christ-splaining the Jewish faith to Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is "you" in your post?
Click to expand...


You.


----------



## rylah




----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> You.



Then "you" have a reading comprehension problem. 
You stated--
_"You need to STOP Christ-splaining the Jewish faith to Jews. It is not your job to "save" Jews from the horrific little god which you created when you usurped Jewish scripture and re-imagined it in a way which permits you to demonize, persecute, hate and wish genocide on the Jewish people."_

I do not nor have I ever demonized, persecuted, hated, hate or wished genocide on the Jewish people. No, not even once.

It's you who has a problem and I cannot help you correct it. Your hate is too strong. the only way you can be saved is for you to save yourself. Hopefully you have friends who are willing to give a helping hand.

God willing -


----------



## Sixties Fan

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then "you" have a reading comprehension problem.
> You stated--
> _"You need to STOP Christ-splaining the Jewish faith to Jews. It is not your job to "save" Jews from the horrific little god which you created when you usurped Jewish scripture and re-imagined it in a way which permits you to demonize, persecute, hate and wish genocide on the Jewish people."_
> 
> I do not nor have I ever demonized, persecuted, hated, hate or wished genocide on the Jewish people. No, not even once.
> 
> It's you who has a problem and I cannot help you correct it. Your hate is too strong. the only way you can be saved is for you to save yourself. Hopefully you have friends who are willing to give a helping hand.
> 
> God willing -
Click to expand...

No, I do not think that you do have "friends" of any kind who can help you with your psychosis issues.

Not one of us does.  We actually know that you do not.

And most of all , you will never go to a stranger to help you fix this perverse fixation you have with changing the history of the world to accommodate your religious leanings.

We really do not care.

We are fixing our "hatred" by taking care of lunatics like yourself and putting you in your place, and protecting the Jewish people in their ancient homeland, as it was done in the day of old.

You do not like it, you will never accept it, you will continue to distort everything in order to make yourself superior to something you will never have control over.

The ability to make Jews gravel at your feet the way your ancestors may have done once.

No more.

That is the meaning of the little country which can.  It is called Israel.

It can and will continue to be able to do everything losers like yourself can only dream about.

Success, in any form is very alien to you, just as the ability to tell the truth, especially to yourself.

Keep twisting it around towards us.  It does not work, and  MOST OF ALL...


WE DO NOT CARE

Because you are a 

LOSER, and always will be.

This conversation is over.  

Talk to your hand.  It is the only thing which can put up with you.

And when your hand gets tired of you, let it slap you back into reality.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Sixties Fan said:


> Not one of us does. We actually know that you do not.



You used the terms "us" and "we" in your post. 

I was going to comment on this and now I have changed my mind.

I wish the best to you, us, and we for all time to come.

-


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then "you" have a reading comprehension problem.
> You stated--
> _"You need to STOP Christ-splaining the Jewish faith to Jews. It is not your job to "save" Jews from the horrific little god which you created when you usurped Jewish scripture and re-imagined it in a way which permits you to demonize, persecute, hate and wish genocide on the Jewish people."_
> 
> I do not nor have I ever demonized, persecuted, hated, hate or wished genocide on the Jewish people. No, not even once.
> 
> It's you who has a problem and I cannot help you correct it. Your hate is too strong. the only way you can be saved is for you to save yourself. Hopefully you have friends who are willing to give a helping hand.
> 
> God willing -
Click to expand...



Allow me to clarify. You only posted the first sentence and that was the "you" I then clarified as being you, specifically.

Let me re-clarify. You individually need to stop Christ-splaining Judaism to Jews. And you individually need to stop trying to "save" Jews.

The rest of the "you"s in the post are generically Xtian "you"s. The whole releigion needs to stop doing all those things as well as the two I specifically called upon you to stop.

There is no need for me to be "saved" from anything. There is no hate in my heart. I believe in self determination for all peoples. I believe in the value of all faiths. I see the sanctity of all people.

The difference between me and you is that I don't use religious hatred last seen in the Middle Ages to a justify the vilification and demonization of only one people as though they bear the sole responsibility for acts of violence committed against them.


----------



## Hollie

I suspect that striking similarities are going to be apparent when female Israelis are killed by Arab-Moslem men. 

The Arab-Moslem treatment of women (bagging them, marginalizing them, treating them like mere property, etc.), has a long lurid history in Arab-Moslem’ism. 

The opportunity to vent his lack of self worth and his frailties is too much to resist for the opportunistic lslamic holy warrior when confronted with a lone Israeli female. 
*


Striking similarities between stabbings 
of 2 young Israeli women* 

Striking similarities between stabbings of 2 young Israeli women - PMW Bulletins


*Terrorists stabbed and murdered Moran Amit, a 25-year-old Israeli woman while she was walking in the forest in 2002*
*Terrorist stabbed and murdered Ori Ansbacher, a 19-year-old Israeli woman while she was walking in the forest in 2019*
*Just days after the murder of Ori, the PA daily chose to write about Moran’s murderers and portray them as victims:*
*
“The occupation stole their childhood from them”* 

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

There are striking similarities between the murder of the 19-year-old Israeli woman Ori Ansbacher a few days ago and the murder of the 25-year-old Israeli woman Moran Amit in 2002. Both were attacked by Palestinian terrorists while walking peacefully in a Jerusalem forest. Both were stabbed to death. 

In 2002, Moran was taking a walk with a friend in the Shalom Forest in Jerusalem when five teenage terrorists hunted them, attacked them, and stabbed Moran to death. Last week, Ori was walking through the Ein Yael forest in Jerusalem on the way from the youth center where she volunteered when a Palestinian terrorist brutally attacked her and then stabbed her to death.


----------



## Hollie

Because nothing says "diseased misfits" quite like islamic terrorist misfits celebrating a murder, the diseased Arab-Moslem misfits pretending to be "Pal'istanians" are celebrating the killing of a young Israeli. 

The pinnacle of Arab-Moslem manhood is achieved by killing young girls.

Super!
*


As Israel grieves a brutal murder, PA TV sings:
"We have given them a taste of grief"

As Israel grieves a brutal murder, PA TV sings: “We have given them a taste of grief” - PMW Bulletins*

*PA TV music video: *
*"We are not afraid of the enemy - 
a bone in the throat of the Zionists... 
Victory is certain, it's inevitable...
We have given them a taste of grief"*


By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
'
Two days after the brutal murder of the 19-year-old Israeli woman Ori Ansbacher, official Palestinian Authority TV broadcast a song celebrating that Palestinians cause Israelis grief:

"*A bone in the throat of the Zionists... 
We have given them a taste of grief*" 
[Official PA TV, Feb. 9, 2019]


----------



## Hollie

If you were expecting a great hue and cry, or possibly a lot of whining and wailing from the Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians” about two tunnel rats gassed by Egypt; don’t.


Israel Haters Silent As Palestinians Gassed in Tunnel. Can You Guess Why?

Two Palestinians died Monday and several others injured after Egyptian troops pumped toxic fumes into a smuggling tunnel stretching into the Sinai Peninsula from the Gaza Strip.

The Hamas-run Gaza Interior Ministry was quoted by Wafa news as identifying the two as 39-year-old Hamas officer Abdul Hamid al-Aker, who was killed during a “security mission to inspect the tunnel,” and 28-year-old Sobhi Abu Qarshin. Abu Qarshin was said to have died during a rescue attempt.



It’s actually comical how Arabs-Moslems are nearly silent when it comes to Arabs-Moslems slaughtering other Arabs-Moslems. They a’splode each other’s mosques, cut down each other with machine gun fire, beat, starve, bomb and killeach other in the most gruesome fashion and nary a peep or whimper from the lot of them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shin Bet agency reports that Hamas tried to use Al Aqsa TV channel to recruit and direct terrorists in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria.

(full article online)

How Hamas uses TV to recruit, direct terrorists - in Jerusalem


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  _et al,_

I think it has been the policy, since the creation of the movement, that HAMAS use the news outlets and the various aspects of the internet media and television.



Sixties Fan said:


> Shin Bet agency reports that Hamas tried to use Al Aqsa TV channel to recruit and direct terrorists in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria.
> (full article online)
> ◈  How Hamas uses TV to recruit, direct terrorists - in Jerusalem  ◈


*(REFERENCE)*


			
				EXCERPT Hamas' official position paper on the destruction of Israel → said:
			
		

> Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle* including in the media,* public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle





			
				Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement → The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty → said:
			
		

> *EXCERPT:  Article Fifteen:*
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, *information and media people,* as well as the educated masses, *especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements*, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin).​


*(COMMENT)*

Since the turn of the century, there has been a very gradual, but steadily increasing, application of the technology of the day.     This incorporates the crafty re-shaping of the stories published by the various news outlets,  --  and   --  the staging of events that are of carefully choreographed to generate interest to the major media networks and easily sensationalized by both the media and the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Hungry young journalist, searching for that one photo or story that will make their career --- are easily manipulated to create and project the image that is most favorable towards Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  _et al,_
> 
> I think it has been the policy, since the creation of the movement, that HAMAS use the news outlets and the various aspects of the internet media and television.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shin Bet agency reports that Hamas tried to use Al Aqsa TV channel to recruit and direct terrorists in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria.
> (full article online)
> ◈  How Hamas uses TV to recruit, direct terrorists - in Jerusalem  ◈
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hamas' official position paper on the destruction of Israel → said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle* including in the media,* public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement → The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty → said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  Article Fifteen:*
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, *information and media people,* as well as the educated masses, *especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements*, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin).​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Since the turn of the century, there has been a very gradual, but steadily increasing, application of the technology of the day.     This incorporates the crafty re-shaping of the stories published by the various news outlets,  --  and   --  the staging of events that are of carefully choreographed to generate interest to the major media networks and easily sensationalized by both the media and the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Hungry young journalist, searching for that one photo or story that will make their career --- are easily manipulated to create and project the image that is most favorable towards Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Since the turn of the century, there has been a very gradual, but steadily increasing, application of the technology of the day. This incorporates the crafty re-shaping of the stories published by the various news outlets,


Hamas has expended a little from armed resistance only. However, the Palestinians, as a whole, are working a much broader strategy. So when Israel shouts *Hamas*, *Hamas*, *Hamas,* they are only getting a small slice of the pie. There is a lot more going on. Israel is out there playing Whack-A-Mole with all of these things.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  _et al,_
> 
> I think it has been the policy, since the creation of the movement, that HAMAS use the news outlets and the various aspects of the internet media and television.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shin Bet agency reports that Hamas tried to use Al Aqsa TV channel to recruit and direct terrorists in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria.
> (full article online)
> ◈  How Hamas uses TV to recruit, direct terrorists - in Jerusalem  ◈
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hamas' official position paper on the destruction of Israel → said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle* including in the media,* public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement → The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty → said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXCERPT:  Article Fifteen:*
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, *information and media people,* as well as the educated masses, *especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements*, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin).​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Since the turn of the century, there has been a very gradual, but steadily increasing, application of the technology of the day.     This incorporates the crafty re-shaping of the stories published by the various news outlets,  --  and   --  the staging of events that are of carefully choreographed to generate interest to the major media networks and easily sensationalized by both the media and the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Hungry young journalist, searching for that one photo or story that will make their career --- are easily manipulated to create and project the image that is most favorable towards Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the turn of the century, there has been a very gradual, but steadily increasing, application of the technology of the day. This incorporates the crafty re-shaping of the stories published by the various news outlets,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has expended a little from armed resistance only. However, the Palestinians, as a whole, are working a much broader strategy. So when Israel shouts *Hamas*, *Hamas*, *Hamas,* they are only getting a small slice of the pie. There is a lot more going on. Israel is out there playing Whack-A-Mole with all of these things.
Click to expand...


I really couldn't make heads not tails out of the above but wasn't it the "Pal'istanians" who elected the *Hamas*, *Hamas*, *Hamas terrorists?*

*Say it with me.... "Caliphate"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Those who joined and helped the Nazis come up with the Final Jewish Solution, lie and cry that some "Holocaust" is being designed for them by Israel.    The Ultimate in Hypocrisy, from those who follow their Quran to the very Last Jew to be expelled or killed on the planet ]



 

*Editorial in official PA daily:*

*Warsaw Conference is "a plan to carry out a 'holocaust' against this [Palestinian] cause"*

*"Perhaps it is not a coincidence that Warsaw will serve as the site for the convening of this conference"*

*"This is the just ruse of history, which wishes to remind humanity that the holocausts of racist eradication that Nazi Germany carried out in Poland can happen again today as a result of this American policy." *

*"It wishes to turn Warsaw - as the Nazis did - into an arena of holocaust of eradication against a small, oppressed, and tortured people, the Palestinian people"*
*Fatah and other groups call on Arab countries to boycott the conference because it is "normalization" with Israel*

(full article online)

"There is an Israeli Auschwitz to massacre Palestinians" - Senior Fatah official condemns Warsaw Conference - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-palestinians-incite-to-rape-too/


----------



## Hollie

Another "scholar", of the kind churned out by the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.

Just a pious Moslem who accepts and worships the literal word of a 7th century Arab warlord. 

"Gazan Scholar Dr. Muhammad Suleiman Al-Farra: It Is Our Religious Duty to Fight the Jews and "Kill them Wherever You May Find Them"" 

_Gazan scholar Dr. Muhammad Suleiman Al-Farra, a lecturer at the Shari'a and Law College of the Islamic University of Gaza, said in a February 3, 2019 interview on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas/Gaza) that it is a religious duty to fight the Jews in Palestine who, he said, occupy the land, violate Muslim holy sites, and kill Muslims._


----------



## Sixties Fan

So, Avraham Bromberg would be gone and utterly forgotten—if not, ironically, for the Palestinian Authority. Yes, the P.A. regime that is bound by the Oslo Accords to reject terrorism, to disarm and extradite terrorists, to shut them down and outlaw them and imprison them—but instead honors them, praises them and finances them.

The Jews may have forgotten Avraham Bromberg. But the Palestinians have not forgotten his murderers.

Palestinian Media Watch reports that last week, a ceremony honoring Karim Younes was held at the Palestinian Ministry of Education. That’s right, at the Ministry of Education. Not in some private residence. Not out in the forest. But front and center in the very seat of the Palestinian government.

And who led the ceremony? Not some clerk or secretary or fringe figure, but rather, the Minister of Education himself, Sabri Saidam. As Karim Younes’s mother smiled approvingly, the minister called the gathering “a gesture of loyalty to prisoner Younes and his family.”

Saidam added that he was “conveying the greetings of the Palestinian leadership and the Fatah Central Committee members” to the Younes family. Fatah is chaired by P.A. leader Mahmoud Abbas, by the way.

The ceremony was held at something called “the Martyr Yasser Arafat Auditorium.” And Saidam presented the mother of the murderer with a plaque featuring a photo of Arafat. I suppose it was fitting that an event honoring a murderer should be so closely tied to the memory of one of the most notorious mass murderers of the 20th century.

(full article online)

A Jewish terror victim is remembered, thanks to the killers’ friends


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the Gaza Strip, pet a lion, declawed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gruesome Palestinian “ethical” dilemma: Should rapist murderer be recognized as hero? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Gruesome Palestinian “ethical” dilemma: Should rapist murderer be recognized as hero? - PMW Bulletins



Why am I not surprised that this ethical dilemma exists only in the diseased Arab-Moslem psyche?


----------



## Hollie

*Lifestyles of the rich and Islamic Terrorist 
*
The dedicated UNRWA welfare fraud has netted incredible wealth for various islsmic terrorist franchises and those at the top of the welfare fraud pyramid scheme. 



Gaza’s Millionaires and Billionaires — How Hamas’s Leaders Got Rich Quick

One of the mysteries of the current war in Gaza can be seen in the photos coming out of the tiny enclave: On the one hand, there is the desolation and squalor of Gaza neighborhoods where hundreds of thousands of Gazans live, and on the other, pictures of the homes owned by Hamas’s top officials, complete with gym equipment and fancy furniture, or else images of the five-star hotel suites where they stay.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Also on Thursday, a car windshield was smashed on the road between Adam and Hizma, and police were attacked with four Molotov cocktails at Qalandiya crossing.

Gaza hasn't been quiet either. A number of incendiary balloons were launched on Tuesday near Ofakim.

The mainstream media, and even the English language Israeli media, barely mention these attacks. But stone throwing at vehicles have killed many people. The intention is the same - to kill Jews.

Yesterday, Hamas held an "AskHamas" session on Twitter. When someone asked how they can justify attacking and murdering Israeli civilians, they said it was a natural "reaction" to Israeli actions. And this is how Palestinians feel as a whole - all Jews are considered to be fair game, and they claim that international law justifies it. (It doesn't.)

(full article online)

Palestinians still trying to murder Jews every day. (We only hear about the "successes.") ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Among the "shailos" (halachic questions) so far, under the hastage #AskRabbiSarsour:

 o  Do you still say Kaddish for Hamas terrorists that blow themselves up?
o  What bracha do you make upon seeing Louis Farrakhan in all his might and glory? 
o  How long should you wait between hanging out with PFLP terrorists and Hamas terrorists, 3 hours or 6?
o  If I have limited funds and can only donate to help either a terrorist or a leading voice for bigotry, who should I support first? Farrakhan? Or Rasmea?
o  Does donating to Ethiopian-Israelis count as supporting Jews of color, or does that make me _over issur_ Zionism?
o  I accidentally bought Israeli produce. May I donate it to the intersectional poor, or is that _assur _according to _hilkhot _BDS?
o  if I purchased a book written by a progressive who went off the path and became a, _lo aleinu_, conservative, should I burn the book with my _chometz_?


The last 3 are under the hashtag #DearRabbiSarsour.

Less than 24 hours and _already_ we have a breakaway.

Maybe we should ask Rabbi Sarsour...?

(_EoZ_: As far as I can tell, my contribution to the #AskRabbiSarsour hashtag has been the most successful

A Jew and a Palestinian are holding a garment. The Jew says "We can split it" and the Palestinian says "I'll kill you and take the whole thing." What is the preferred way to kill the Jew, sword or bus bomb? #AskRabbiSarsour
— ElderOfZiyon (@elderofziyon) February 15, 2019

(full article online)

"Ask Rabbi Sarsour" (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It's fatwa time for another of the Islam's best and brightest.

It's just unconscionable that islamics don't cringe with embarrassment when these knuckheads issue religious decrees but there's really no accounting for the Islamist psyche.


Islamic cleric: Don't call it the Western Wall


*Islamic cleric: Don't call it the Western Wall*
Head of the Supreme Islamic Council in Jerusalem says there's not a single rock at the Western Wall which is connected to Jewish history.

Dalit Halevi, 13/02/19 06:35







Jews pray at the Western Wall

Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, head of the Supreme Islamic Council in Jerusalem, issued a fatwa (ruling on a point of Islamic law) stating that the Western Wall (which the Muslims refer to as the Al-Buraq Wall) is an inseparable part of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and is considered an Islamic sanctuary.

In the fatwa, Sabri writes that the Western Wall is part of the structure, in this case the Al-Aqsa Mosque. He claims that the Muslim prophet Muhammad had tied his wonderful horse Buraq to this wall before embarking on his heavenly journey.


----------



## Hollie

It seems another of the frauds perpetrated by Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians” is the myth of poverty in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan 

Not all of the UNRWA welfare fraud money gets stolen by the Islamic terrorist franchises. Some of the welfare money is spent on war and gee-had planning centers sometimes called mosques. 

*US Professor Amazed at Wealth in Gaza City; Notes 900 Mosques, Only 2 Libraries*

*US Professor Amazed at Wealth in Gaza City; Notes 900 Mosques, Only 2 Libraries*

A professor at the Jackson School of International Studies at the University of Washington in Seattle visited Gaza City for six hours a few weeks ago, and he was astonished that after reading years of propaganda about how poverty stricken Gazans are, they really aren’t.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Diana Babish runs a unique dog and cat shelter at Beit Sahour, and defies Palestinian critics to work closely with Israeli animal welfare volunteers; now she’s facing eviction*

(full article online)

Ex-Palestinian banker’s dogged West Bank animal shelter fights for its life


----------



## Hollie

*Armed factions in Gaza: Region on verge of explosion.*


*<——- insert pause for dramatic effect...


Armed factions in Gaza: Region on verge of explosion
*
“_Blaming Israel for violence, Gaza factions warn: “We will not allow attacks on border protesters to continue” • Armed groups say they are “shocked by Arab world’s silence.”

_
I suspect the critical thinkers at The Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., may have overlooked that they are the entity pressing the violence with the gee-had at the Israeli border.


“_Following an emergency meeting in a situation room in Gaza, the factions issued a joint statement blaming Israel for the escalation in Gaza.”

_
A “situation room in Gaza”?

Islamic terrorists have situation rooms? Who knew?

Odd that Islamic terrorists would blame Israel for an escalation of violence at the border gee-had orchestrated by Hamas, but then, shiftless Islamic terrorist welfare cheats say the darndest things.


----------



## Hollie

Not sure why this is an issue. Abbas needed a new 50 million dollar "presidential" jet. We can't have Mahmoud wanting, now can we.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Not sure why this is an issue. Abbas needed a new 50 million dollar "presidential" jet. We can't have Mahmoud wanting, now can we.


You have to remember that Abbas is a foreign appointed oligarch whose term in office expired in 2009.


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/02/a_palestinian_terrorist_too_brutal_for_fatah.html


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This guys are hysterical, lol ]

Saeb Erekat says insisting that Palestinians stop paying terrorists is part of a plan to destroy the Palestinian Authority ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 14-Feb-19: A prince, a princess, four Tamimis - and murderous violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Ministry of Information tracks PMW releases to protect Fatah's Facebook page from closure - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why this is an issue. Abbas needed a new 50 million dollar "presidential" jet. We can't have Mahmoud wanting, now can we.
> 
> 
> 
> You have to remember that Abbas is a foreign appointed oligarch whose term in office expired in 2009.
Click to expand...


You have to remember that your goofy conspiracy theories are the subject of ridicule.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> PA Ministry of Information tracks PMW releases to protect Fatah's Facebook page from closure - PMW Bulletins



While it’s unconscionable that Islamic terrorists have been able to use our Kuffar technology to promote their Death Cult message of hate and incitement, I’m hoping Facebook will shut them down completely.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas takes control of Gaza goods crossing with Israel


----------



## Hollie

Gazans aren’t abandoning their children at the border; they’re earning a living

Now it’s time to add another negative trait to the numerous shortcomings of the Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip. They’re also heartless toward their sick children! They’re not only naïve people being manipulated by Hamas, people who riot on the Israeli border, lazy people who don’t know themselves that, if they just bothered working, their situation would improve.


----------



## Hollie

Sheesh! I suspect the alleged bugging device was nothing more than an electronic anti-theft / inventory control tag that most stores use.

I guess these new-fanged gadgets have the Islamic terrorist knuckledraggers completely befuddled.


Hamas claims Israel sent bugged shoes to spy on the terrorist group

The shipment of suspicious shoes that came through the Kerem Shalom Crossing were sent to Hamas to examine.

A Fatah breakaway group in the Gaza Strip claimed its members have intercepted a shipment of military boots equipped with “secret electronic tracking chips,” that were on their way to market, according to a Palestinian news source.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The clear message is that when funds are short, the top priority of the Palestinian leadership is payment of money to terrorists and their families. The major policy that encourages terrorists to continue to murder Jews is considered sacrosanct - more important than paying employees, more important than building schools, more important than building hospitals, more important than paying social security or to help those who are sick or wounded from not attempting to murder Jews.

(full article online)

Palestinian leaders - and their "progressive" fans - support their paying terrorists above education, infrastructure, hospitals.... ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

If Abbas follows through with his decision and the PA refuses to accept this money next month, it will conclusively confirm that Abbas and the PA prioritize rewarding terrorists and murderers rather than the best interests of the entire PA population. Instead of accepting that Israel refuses to transfer $11.6 million/month for terror rewards, Abbas prefers to punish the entire PA population by refusing $174.5 million of tax money, which would benefit all PA residents.

Indeed, if Abbas maintains this decision, the entire PA economic infrastructure could ground to a halt. At least since 2014, the taxes collected by Israel have accounted for approximately 50% of the PA's operational budget - i.e. the PA's entire budget less its debt payments. In 2018, the average monthly tax income was $186,121,569 million/month (670 million shekels). By refusing the remainder of this sum after the sum of the terrorist salaries is deducted, Abbas is intentionally preventing his people from receiving a huge part of their annual needs.

Why would Abbas be bringing such a financial and humanitarian crisis on the Palestinian population?

(full article online)

'Abbas about to inflict serious humanitarian crisis on PA'


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> If Abbas follows through with his decision and the PA refuses to accept this money next month, it will conclusively confirm that Abbas and the PA prioritize rewarding terrorists and murderers rather than the best interests of the entire PA population. Instead of accepting that Israel refuses to transfer $11.6 million/month for terror rewards, Abbas prefers to punish the entire PA population by refusing $174.5 million of tax money, which would benefit all PA residents.
> 
> Indeed, if Abbas maintains this decision, the entire PA economic infrastructure could ground to a halt. At least since 2014, the taxes collected by Israel have accounted for approximately 50% of the PA's operational budget - i.e. the PA's entire budget less its debt payments. In 2018, the average monthly tax income was $186,121,569 million/month (670 million shekels). By refusing the remainder of this sum after the sum of the terrorist salaries is deducted, Abbas is intentionally preventing his people from receiving a huge part of their annual needs.
> 
> Why would Abbas be bringing such a financial and humanitarian crisis on the Palestinian population?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Abbas about to inflict serious humanitarian crisis on PA'




To incite a major intifada.


----------



## Hollie

Angry Mahmoud is going off on another Angry Mahmoud tirade. It seems Angry Mahmoud was miffed at the idea of Arab states attending a summit in cooperation with Israel.

I thought it was comical that Angry Mahmoud and the PA were engaging in some world class whining about a "boycott" of the summit. 

How interesting that Angry Mahmoud wasn't real keen on boycotts as he and the criminal franchise he ran - the PA, spent decades stealing welfare money from the UNRWA welfare fraud; money supplied by the Great Satan and various Arab-Moslem states. 



Palestinian Authority Boycotts Warsaw Summit: The Trump Administration Wants To Transform Warsaw Into A Place Of Holocaust And Elimination Of The Palestinian Cause.

Palestinian Authority Boycotts Warsaw Summit: The Trump Administration Wants To Transform Warsaw Into A Place Of Holocaust And Elimination Of The Palestinian Cause

The U.S.- and Poland-sponsored Warsaw summit, taking place in Poland February 13-14, 2019, was originally planned for discussing the issue of Iran, but was later defined as the "Ministerial to Promote a Future of Peace and Security in the Middle East."*[1]* U.S. Vice President Mike Pence and U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo are participating in the summit, along with foreign ministers and representatives of European countries, Arab countries, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.


----------



## Hollie

Another Abu is making a lot of bellicose claims / threats and really, no one cares. 

I suspect angry Abu is a bit miffed that Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians" are something of a nuisance to the Arab-Moslem world which doesn't have a need or desire to be drawn into the bottomless pit of want and entitlement that is Fatah and Hamas. 



"Fatah Secretary in Jenin Ata Abu Rmeila Brandishes Assault Rifle, Says: This Gun Will Never Drop from Our Hands; We Pledge to Continue on Path of Armed Struggle" 

Ata Abu Rmeila, the secretary of Fatah's branch in Jenin, was shown brandishing an assault rifle and surrounded by cheering Palestinian men in a video that was uploaded to the internet on February 17, 2019. Gunshots could be heard in the background and the men chanted: "With our souls and our blood we will redeem you, oh Ata!" Holding the gun up in the air, Rmeila said: "We pledge before the Palestinian people to continue on this path… Fatah is coming with the option of the armed struggle."  ...


----------



## Sixties Fan

The teachers are told to tell the students that they will go on an exciting trip to somewhere in "Palestine." They hype up the trip for weeks, and discuss what they will see and do when they get there. The children are told to bring cameras and paper and pens to write notes, and how they will present their reports to the class when they get back. They are told to get consent forms signed from their parents for the trip. They bring food from home on the day of the field trip.

Then, the morning of the trip, when the students are excited about a day away from the classroom, the teacher tells them that the trip is canceled.* They cannot go because Israel won't let them into their land*. 

(full article online)

Palestinian teachers psychologically torture 3rd grade students to indoctrinate hate for Israel by "canceling" fake field trip to "1948 Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Oh my. Somebody dialed back the money spigot that drenches the Fatah franchise of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_., with welfare dollars to finance Islamic terrorism. 

This might be the right time for Mahmoud to join the competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate in Gaza and convert to the Shia version of Islamism. Getting in the good graces of the Iranian Mullocrats could mean mo’ money for the gee-had. 


Israel approves million dollar freeze to PA tax revenue to offset terrorist wages


Israel's security council approved a million dollar freeze on funds transferred to the Palestinian Authority (PA) in a bid to offset terrorist's salaries, after months of bureaucratic wrangling culminated in the government's sizable to slash the West Bank-based body on Sunday.

11:16:24 AM
UPDATED ON
02/17/2019

2:07:00 PM


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Oh my. Somebody dialed back the money spigot that drenches the Fatah franchise of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_., with welfare dollars to finance Islamic terrorism.
> 
> This might be the right time for Mahmoud to join the competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate in Gaza and convert to the Shia version of Islamism. Getting in the good graces of the Iranian Mullocrats could mean mo’ money for the gee-had.
> 
> 
> Israel approves million dollar freeze to PA tax revenue to offset terrorist wages
> 
> 
> Israel's security council approved a million dollar freeze on funds transferred to the Palestinian Authority (PA) in a bid to offset terrorist's salaries, after months of bureaucratic wrangling culminated in the government's sizable to slash the West Bank-based body on Sunday.
> 
> 11:16:24 AM
> UPDATED ON
> 02/17/2019
> 
> 2:07:00 PM


It will be interesting to see what happen when the PA collapses.

Particularly the 70,000 man PA police force who will have no leadership and no paychecks.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. Somebody dialed back the money spigot that drenches the Fatah franchise of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_., with welfare dollars to finance Islamic terrorism.
> 
> This might be the right time for Mahmoud to join the competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate in Gaza and convert to the Shia version of Islamism. Getting in the good graces of the Iranian Mullocrats could mean mo’ money for the gee-had.
> 
> 
> Israel approves million dollar freeze to PA tax revenue to offset terrorist wages
> 
> 
> Israel's security council approved a million dollar freeze on funds transferred to the Palestinian Authority (PA) in a bid to offset terrorist's salaries, after months of bureaucratic wrangling culminated in the government's sizable to slash the West Bank-based body on Sunday.
> 
> 11:16:24 AM
> UPDATED ON
> 02/17/2019
> 
> 2:07:00 PM
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see what happen when the PA collapses.
> 
> Particularly the 70,000 man PA police force who will have no leadership and no paychecks.
Click to expand...

Israel applies its law and police.
PA gets 70,000 tickets back to Tunis.


----------



## Mindful

I wonder if this applies, even to this day.

Some Muslim commentators assert that extremism within Islam goes back to the 7th century to the Kharijites. From their essentially political position, they developed extreme doctrines that set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach of _takfir_, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death.

Wiki.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. Somebody dialed back the money spigot that drenches the Fatah franchise of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_., with welfare dollars to finance Islamic terrorism.
> 
> This might be the right time for Mahmoud to join the competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate in Gaza and convert to the Shia version of Islamism. Getting in the good graces of the Iranian Mullocrats could mean mo’ money for the gee-had.
> 
> 
> Israel approves million dollar freeze to PA tax revenue to offset terrorist wages
> 
> 
> Israel's security council approved a million dollar freeze on funds transferred to the Palestinian Authority (PA) in a bid to offset terrorist's salaries, after months of bureaucratic wrangling culminated in the government's sizable to slash the West Bank-based body on Sunday.
> 
> 11:16:24 AM
> UPDATED ON
> 02/17/2019
> 
> 2:07:00 PM
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see what happen when the PA collapses.
> 
> Particularly the 70,000 man PA police force who will have no leadership and no paychecks.
Click to expand...


There will be lawlessness and chaos. Pretty much nothing will have changed. 

Islamism is its own enemy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Promising money to families of terrorists is a life insurance policy that encourages terrorists to want to die during attacks on Jews.

Also, yesterday, Abbas met with a delegation from J-Street and Democratic members of Congress. He told them how much he wanted peace and how the "peace process" is in danger - because of Israel.

He went on to blame Israel for everything, and described "Israeli violations in the Palestinian territories,", Israel's "ongoing attacks on Islamic and Christian sanctities in the occupied city of Jerusalem," and how the PLO is trying to stop these alleged attacks (meaning, things like Jews visiting Jewish holy sites) by going to international institutions and courts.

He answered questions, but I cannot find any transcript of that, and J-Street doesn't even admit when it meets with Abbas, for some reason.

The photo above shows J-Street leader Jeremy Ben-Ami asking a question from the group that includes Abbas and Saeb Erekat, under the smiling face of Yasir Arafat.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas says paying terrorists is his absolute highest priority. (And tells J-Street he wants peace.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  The Forgotten Arabs,  known as Palestinians  ]

The EU praises Lebanon's human rights, ignoring how it mistreats Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I came across the following article and it speaks to a broad range of sociopathic behaviors that apply to the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians". What is important to point out is that the cradle to grave indoctrination of hate / self hate and sociopathic behaviors that define the Palistanians are evident across so much of the islamic Middle East. 

Enablers of Palestinian child terrorists

(JNS)—Last Thursday, a Palestinian teenager stabbed a young Jewish father to death and wounded two others. On Sunday, a Palestinian teenager who assaulted Israeli soldiers was released from prison to international acclaim. Later on Sunday, two Palestinian teenagers with machine guns and bullet magazines were intercepted on their way to massacre Jews.

Palestinian children are not born hating Jews or loving violence. Who is to blame for encouraging and inspiring these young people to engage in such murderous behavior?


----------



## Hollie

Slowlly, slowly there is a growing realization that throwing welfare money at Islamic terrorists in spite of their continuing and brazen announcements that acts of Islamic terrorism will continue only rewards Islamic terrorism.

I do applaud the work that PMW puts forth showing the dangers of supporting and rewarding Islamic terrorists,



*PMW impact: Swedish and Norwegian MPs to seek funding cuts to PA - PMW Bulletins

PMW impact: 
Swedish and Norwegian MPs to seek funding cuts to PA*


*Swedish MP:
"We want to do as they've done in the Dutch parliament
to cut the funding to the PA [by 7%]." 
Mikael Oscarsson (Christian Democrats)*

*Norwegian MP: 
"I do not think it's a good idea to give any funding to prisoners... 
We have to use Norwegian money to make peace."
Ingjerd Schou (Conservative Party)*

*Swedish MP:
"Thank you Itamar Marcus for coming to Sweden. The job you're doing with Palestinian Media Watch is very important. It gives us information. We're very thankful that you're giving us the facts so that we in the Swedish parliament can use these facts in order to change Swedish attitudes." 
Mikael Oscarsson (Christian Democrats*)


Following Palestinian Media Watch Director Itamar Marcus' recent briefings before members of parliament and government officials in Norway and Sweden, MPs from both countries said they would seek changes in their governments' funding to the Palestinian Authority (PA).


----------



## Sixties Fan

At The Yasser Arafat Museum, Revisionist History And Missing Facts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I came across the following article and it speaks to a broad range of sociopathic behaviors that apply to the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians". What is important to point out is that the cradle to grave indoctrination of hate / self hate and sociopathic behaviors that define the Palistanians are evident across so much of the islamic Middle East.
> 
> Enablers of Palestinian child terrorists
> 
> (JNS)—Last Thursday, a Palestinian teenager stabbed a young Jewish father to death and wounded two others. On Sunday, a Palestinian teenager who assaulted Israeli soldiers was released from prison to international acclaim. Later on Sunday, two Palestinian teenagers with machine guns and bullet magazines were intercepted on their way to massacre Jews.
> 
> Palestinian children are not born hating Jews or loving violence. Who is to blame for encouraging and inspiring these young people to engage in such murderous behavior?





Hollie said:


> Palestinian children are not born hating Jews or loving violence. Who is to blame for encouraging and inspiring these young people to engage in such murderous behavior?


Good question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I came across the following article and it speaks to a broad range of sociopathic behaviors that apply to the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians". What is important to point out is that the cradle to grave indoctrination of hate / self hate and sociopathic behaviors that define the Palistanians are evident across so much of the islamic Middle East.
> 
> Enablers of Palestinian child terrorists
> 
> (JNS)—Last Thursday, a Palestinian teenager stabbed a young Jewish father to death and wounded two others. On Sunday, a Palestinian teenager who assaulted Israeli soldiers was released from prison to international acclaim. Later on Sunday, two Palestinian teenagers with machine guns and bullet magazines were intercepted on their way to massacre Jews.
> 
> Palestinian children are not born hating Jews or loving violence. Who is to blame for encouraging and inspiring these young people to engage in such murderous behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are not born hating Jews or loving violence. Who is to blame for encouraging and inspiring these young people to engage in such murderous behavior?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.
Click to expand...


You’re obviously hoping to convey something sinister with a cut and paste photo. However, an undated photo, absent any context and appearing to be sourced from the Pallywood Studios makes you appear to be quite the propagandist, or quite the gullible fool. 

Which is the correct description?


----------



## Hollie

While common sense voices have been heard questioning the rationality of rewarding Arab-Moslem terrorism, those voices were not always at the heart of the discussion. 

Fortunately, both here in the Great Satan and abroad, there is a growing awareness that funding a forever Islamic terroristwelfare fraud syndicate (known as UNRWA), which rewards Islamic terrorism is a fool’s errand. 



It’s Time To Stop Enabling The Terrorist Palestinian Movement

Consider this nightmare: Imagine that the United States helps create a militant regime hostile to individual liberty. Suppose this U.S.-funded, authoritarian regime becomes notorious for inciting violent attacks. Now imagine that Washington enables jihadists to gain political power within the regime. Then the authoritarians and jihadists join forces.

Chilling? Yes. Irrational? Yes. Far-fetched? Sadly, no. That, in a nutshell, is America’s actual relationship with the Palestinian Authority, a state-in-the-making. To fathom how we ended up in this absurd situation, look at America’s approach to the Palestinian movement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> While common sense voices have been heard questioning the rationality of rewarding Arab-Moslem terrorism, those voices were not always at the heart of the discussion.
> 
> Fortunately, both here in the Great Satan and abroad, there is a growing awareness that funding a forever Islamic terroristwelfare fraud syndicate (known as UNRWA), which rewards Islamic terrorism is a fool’s errand.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s Time To Stop Enabling The Terrorist Palestinian Movement
> 
> Consider this nightmare: Imagine that the United States helps create a militant regime hostile to individual liberty. Suppose this U.S.-funded, authoritarian regime becomes notorious for inciting violent attacks. Now imagine that Washington enables jihadists to gain political power within the regime. Then the authoritarians and jihadists join forces.
> 
> Chilling? Yes. Irrational? Yes. Far-fetched? Sadly, no. That, in a nutshell, is America’s actual relationship with the Palestinian Authority, a state-in-the-making. To fathom how we ended up in this absurd situation, look at America’s approach to the Palestinian movement.





Hollie said:


> Suppose this U.S.-funded, authoritarian regime becomes notorious for inciting violent attacks.


Like Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While common sense voices have been heard questioning the rationality of rewarding Arab-Moslem terrorism, those voices were not always at the heart of the discussion.
> 
> Fortunately, both here in the Great Satan and abroad, there is a growing awareness that funding a forever Islamic terroristwelfare fraud syndicate (known as UNRWA), which rewards Islamic terrorism is a fool’s errand.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s Time To Stop Enabling The Terrorist Palestinian Movement
> 
> Consider this nightmare: Imagine that the United States helps create a militant regime hostile to individual liberty. Suppose this U.S.-funded, authoritarian regime becomes notorious for inciting violent attacks. Now imagine that Washington enables jihadists to gain political power within the regime. Then the authoritarians and jihadists join forces.
> 
> Chilling? Yes. Irrational? Yes. Far-fetched? Sadly, no. That, in a nutshell, is America’s actual relationship with the Palestinian Authority, a state-in-the-making. To fathom how we ended up in this absurd situation, look at America’s approach to the Palestinian movement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suppose this U.S.-funded, authoritarian regime becomes notorious for inciting violent attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like Israel.
Click to expand...


Like you are clueless.

It was funny to watch you retreat from any attempt at defending the photo you cut and pasted. Like so much of your cutting and pasting, it’s as phony as a frozen falafel. 

Tell us who is inciting violence by attempting to breach the israel border and “rip the hearts out” of Israelis?

You can find the answer on YouTube. Cut and paste a video.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mother of Palestinian knife attacker on Hamas TV: "Muhammad was a butcher and knew how to slaughter"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Josh Hasten conducts an interview with Dr. Harold Rhode, one of the world’s preeminent scholars on Islam.

Rhode, who served as an adviser on Islamic Affairs at the US Department of Defense, has a new book coming out titled “Modern Islamic Warfare.” The work exposes modern day terrorism as the classic style of Islamic warfare meant to instill fear in one’s enemy, whether they are fellow Muslims, Jews, Christians or others, in order to achieve one’s goals.

(full article online)

Peace? Islam doesn't recognize it


----------



## Sixties Fan

Under the current circumstances, when Arabs are being widely shamed and condemned for sitting in the same room with an Israeli prime minister, it is hard to see how the Trump administration will be able to convince Arab states and leaders to normalize their relations with Israel. Some of these Arab leaders may be privately telling US administration officials things they like to hear about peace and coexistence with Israel. The very same leaders, however, are fully aware of the opposite sentiments, not only in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but throughout the Arab world.


All that is left for the Trump administration to do is to try and persuade the Arab states to abandon the Palestinians, and to continue focusing on the regional threat from Iran. If the US completes its pullout from Syria, Iran will successfully complete its long-desired "land-bridge" to the Mediterranean through Yemen, Syria and Lebanon. This encirclement of the area will position Iran, via its proxies, to be the hegemon controlling the region, as it has clearly been trying to bring about. Russia, of course, is standing in the wings, thanks to the gift that then US President Barack Obama handed Putin in 2011 by pulling American troops out of Syria.


For decades now, not only Palestinian leaders but Arab ones as well, have been radicalizing their people against Israel. Using every available platform, including mosques, media outlets and United Nations organizations, these leaders, with the collaboration of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, have demonized Israel. They have poisoned the hearts and minds of their people with the hate that exists towards Israel all over the Arab world. To promote normalization with Israel, a leader must prepare his people for the possibility of peace with Israel. Meanwhile, Arab leaders are doing the exact opposite -- which is why some of them are currently being denounced as traitors and pawns in the hands of Israel and the US. It would be wise for President Trump's advisers, if they wish to grasp what is really going on in the Arab world, to listen to the voices of the Arab street.
(full article online)

Palestinians: "The Slap of the Century"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Did UNC Promote Sarsour Talk by Using Photos of Berlin's Holocaust Memorial?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,



Sixties Fan said:


> Did UNC Promote Sarsour Talk by Using Photos of Berlin's Holocaust Memorial?



Ms (Linda) Sarsour has, in a way, already accomplished her approach and set her bearing to the presentation at the University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill).



			
				Linda Sarsour • American-Palestinian Activist • Hostile towards Israel said:
			
		

> “nothing is creepier than Zionism” and advising Muslims not to “humanize” Israelis.
> 
> *SOURCE: * The Tower, Article _by_ Peter Reitzes | 02.21.19


*(COMMENT)*

It's free advertising and gives the conference on social media a running start.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The statement went on to "affirm its rejection of the ideology based on defamation and abuse of the sacrifices of the Palestinian people and its honorable history....institutions of higher education  are still defenders of the rights of this people and its national constants."

The Palestinian Ministry of Education is admitting that the purpose of their universities is not the pursuit of truth but the propagation of propaganda.

There is a pervasive knowledge among Palestinians that there are certain things that one never says in public, and the consequences of admitting basic truths can be severe. It is one of the facts that Western reporters and international NGOs cannot grasp - Palestinians are reluctant to tell the truth about how they really feel about their government or even what they themselves have witnessed, because what they say might be at odds with the official position of the PLO. This is why so many "eyewitnesses" will tell reporters that an Israeli bullet or bomb killed someone even when it is proven that the fatal shot came from their own side. Anything that contradicts the official narrative of the PLO is suppressed, and certainly nothing positive will ever be said about Israel.

The credulous Westerners then go and confidently report their stories based on interviews with people who are in fear of telling the truth.

This is a minor case, but the Ministry of Education - instead of defending one of its professors - instead decided to condemn him for saying something that is an obvious fact, because facts contradict the only "truth" that is allowed to be publicly spoken under Palestinian rule.

(full article online)

Palestinian Ministry of Education admits that its universities are meant for propaganda, not truth ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Can anyone imagine the Jewish people at any time during the 1300 years of Muslim dominance and sometime refusal to allow the Jews to enter their holy sites, doing what the Arabs continue to be incited to do?  Can anyone imagine what would have happened to the Jewish people then?   ]

Hundreds of Arabs arriving for Friday prayers breached the Golden Gate and entered the site.

The Arabs shouted incitement against Jews and breached the area, which has been closed off for the past 16 years, since it was discovered that those running the site were connected to the Hamas terror organization.

Large police forces are at the scene and it has been decided not to remove the Muslims from the site.

(full article online)

Watch: Arabs force their way through Golden Gate


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs throw firebombs at transport vehicle near the Dung Gate. Miraculously, no one injured.

(full article online)

Miracle in the Old City of Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Neuer claims, UNRWA's very own former General Counsel, James Lindsay, confirmed in a 2012 Middle East Quarterly essay that UNRWA calcualtes its "refugees" in a _very _different manner than does UNHCR:


The UNRWA definition makes no mention of citizenship, and UNRWA makes no effort to de-register persons who were formerly refugees but are now citizens of a state. As such, UNRWA is the only refugee organization in the world that considers citizens of a state to be refugees, and there are many of these oxymoronic "citizen-refugees" on UNRWA rolls.

As Lindsay noted in his essay, UNRWA's lack of mention of citizenship is hugely consequential — and it differs from UNHCR's definition of "refugee," which "specifically does not apply to any person who 'has acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality.'"

Therefore, all the millions of descendants of the Palestinian-Arabs displaced by Israel's 1948 War of Independence — a genocidal war launched by the Jewish state's Arab neighbors only after those neighbors flatly rejected the incipient United Nation's previously proffered two-state partition proposal — who have since acquired citizenship in a distinct sovereign nation, such as the 1.8 million Jordanians Neuer references, _would_ _not_ be considered "refugees" under UNHCR's definition but _are_ considered "refugees" under UNRWA's definition.
-----------
"The United States will no longer commit further funding to this irredeemably flawed operation," U.S. State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said, at the time. "We are very mindful of and deeply concerned regarding the impact upon innocent Palestinians, especially school children, of the failure of UNRWA and key members of the regional and international donor community to reform and reset the UNRWA way of doing business."

(full article online)

Pro-Palestinian Frauds: UNRWA Called Out For Lying About Its Own Definition Of ‘Refugee’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Senior Fatah official Jibril Rajoub says that since 1967, Palestinians have been living in "camps similar to Nazi camps" • Special envoy Jason Greenblatt: There is no comparison whatsoever, Jews who survived actual Nazi camps deserve an apology.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/02/...official-to-apologize-to-holocaust-survivors/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Nope, they cannot cut down on buying weapons, stashing some of that money, or anything else.  The "must" cut down anyone's salaries, so that then countries like Qatar will come running in to help them  ]

PA to cut civil servant salaries after Israeli tax freeze over terror stipends


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas terrorists attack Fatah terrorists in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas terrorists attack Fatah terrorists in Gaza


Hamas and Fatah have been embroiled in a bitter rivalry since 2007, when Hamas violently took over Gaza from Fatah in a bloody coup.​
Why do they keep pimping this lie? This changes the whole story.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas terrorists attack Fatah terrorists in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas and Fatah have been embroiled in a bitter rivalry since 2007, when Hamas violently took over Gaza from Fatah in a bloody coup.​
> Why do they keep pimping this lie? This changes the whole story.
Click to expand...


Another of your goofy conspiracy theories.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A new voice for the Palestinian Arabs is finally taking a stand


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans demand Abbas resignation over Hamas salary cuts, cooperation with Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Libya jails Palestinians suspected of being Hamas members ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.



Sixties Fan said:


> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel


*(REFERENCE)*



			
				The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
			
		

> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.



*(COMMENT)*

This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
Click to expand...

Illigally Smuggling is not legally importing.

And when one means to kill a whole population, then there is really a need to stop ANY weapons from reaching those murderers wannabe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Illigally Smuggling is not legally importing.
> 
> And when one means to kill a whole population, then there is really a need to stop ANY weapons from reaching those murderers wannabe.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
Click to expand...


“Pal’istan” is a not descriptive. It is not some legitimate nation that seeks to import weapons but a collection of Islamic terrorist franchise that wants to import.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Pal’istan” is a not descriptive. It is not some legitimate nation that seeks to import weapons but a collection of Islamic terrorist franchise that wants to import.
Click to expand...

Still ducking.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Pal’istan” is a not descriptive. It is not some legitimate nation that seeks to import weapons but a collection of Islamic terrorist franchise that wants to import.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking.
Click to expand...


I never expect that you will be able to respond with anything but tired slogans or goofy YouTube videos.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is just an example of the required enforcement, and what Israel does to meet the obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Border guards nab Palestinian smuggling 37 pistols from Jordan to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arms Trade Treaty  (ATT) establishes common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. National implementation Under Article 5, the Arms Trade Treaty requires that States parties take measures to implement its provisions and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system. This includes taking appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of the Treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is what the containment of the Arab Palestinian Territories is all about, in the spirit of Article 43, Hague Regulation, and the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.  Loose Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW), and the underground trafficking of SALW is a threat to regional security and the public order and safety of both the territories and Israel itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Pal’istan” is a not descriptive. It is not some legitimate nation that seeks to import weapons but a collection of Islamic terrorist franchise that wants to import.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking.
Click to expand...

What we are all seeing is YOU deflecting and ducking at what is said, if it does not agree with your fantasyland of "Palestine is a country and Israel is not"

Keep at it


----------



## Hollie

One of the Islamic terrorist franchises in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan is showing off some new toys claimed to be from their Shia friends in Iran. There’s no indication that Islamic gee-had actually has any missiles in Gaza. I suspect the video was largely a matter of Islamic gee-had looking for some Islamo street-cred.

These idiots have no clue that a) they will further enrage the Sunni/Salafi/wahabbi tribes siding with the apostate Shia and b) israel will waste no time in utterly flattening any location where Islamic terrorists would hope to use their new toys. 



*Islamic Jihad touts new missile that can hit Tel Aviv and beyond*

Islamic Jihad touts new missile that can hit Tel Aviv and beyond



The Gaza-based organization made the claim in a documentary film broadcast on Iranian television, which included footage of various projectiles, other weapons and missile launches.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan,  et al,

It has already been discussed the impact of enforcing Article 43, Hague Regulation, the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, within the territories.

*BLUF:  *The answer to your question is •  S/RES/1624 (2005)  •  and  •  The Arms Trade Treaty  • →

We have already discussed how it is known that the Governmental Authorities of the Palestinians both praise and support internationally recognized terrorist organizations, with (as an example) the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).  That HAMAS activities range from suicide bombings to other malevolent crimes against humanity, in attempts at a toppling of State of Israel. _("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.")_  It is also widely known that it is not only acceptable but a policy of the Palestinian Leadership to praise and venerate members of such organizations as the HAMAS, Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)  religion, all in the name of patriotism and acts of resistance.ª


We have also discussed at great length the "underlining the need to prevent and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms and to prevent their diversion to the illicit market, or for unauthorized end use and end users, including in the commission of terrorist acts;" as it pertains to to the territory and its impact on regional security.  That it is a violation of International Law to incite terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance of the Jewish National Home.  That the action of HAMAS  poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of positive nationalism and its territorial economic stability, and social development of all States, and → their  activities which further erodes and undermines global stability and national prosperity. 

Footnotes:____________________________
*ª• Top 15 Most Dangerous Terrorist Organizations in the World* • Chris Diamond May 05, 2017 •



P F Tinmore said:


> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?


*(COMMENT)
*
It is, within the Treaty → previous commentary, an agreement that it NOT authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) → if it has knowledge at the time of  that the arms or items would be used in the violation of customary and international humanitarian law (IHL), crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such, or other war crimes as defined by international agreements to which it is a Party.  Arms transfer in an attempt to provide material support to any number of asymmetric actors is prohibited.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It has already been discussed the impact of enforcing Article 43, Hague Regulation, the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, within the territories.
> 
> *BLUF:  *The answer to your question is •  S/RES/1624 (2005)  •  and  •  The Arms Trade Treaty  • →
> 
> We have already discussed how it is known that the Governmental Authorities of the Palestinians both praise and support internationally recognized terrorist organizations, with (as an example) the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).  That HAMAS activities range from suicide bombings to other malevolent crimes against humanity, in attempts at a toppling of State of Israel. _("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.")_  It is also widely known that it is not only acceptable but a policy of the Palestinian Leadership to praise and venerate members of such organizations as the HAMAS, Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)  religion, all in the name of patriotism and acts of resistance.ª
> 
> 
> We have also discussed at great length the "underlining the need to prevent and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms and to prevent their diversion to the illicit market, or for unauthorized end use and end users, including in the commission of terrorist acts;" as it pertains to to the territory and its impact on regional security.  That it is a violation of International Law to incite terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance of the Jewish National Home.  That the action of HAMAS  poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of positive nationalism and its territorial economic stability, and social development of all States, and → their  activities which further erodes and undermines global stability and national prosperity.
> 
> Footnotes:____________________________
> *ª• Top 15 Most Dangerous Terrorist Organizations in the World* • Chris Diamond May 05, 2017 •
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> It is, within the Treaty → previous commentary, an agreement that it NOT authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) → if it has knowledge at the time of  that the arms or items would be used in the violation of customary and international humanitarian law (IHL), crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such, or other war crimes as defined by international agreements to which it is a Party.  Arms transfer in an attempt to provide material support to any number of asymmetric actors is prohibited.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WOW, how does Israel get all its stuff?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It has already been discussed the impact of enforcing Article 43, Hague Regulation, the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, within the territories.
> 
> *BLUF:  *The answer to your question is •  S/RES/1624 (2005)  •  and  •  The Arms Trade Treaty  • →
> 
> We have already discussed how it is known that the Governmental Authorities of the Palestinians both praise and support internationally recognized terrorist organizations, with (as an example) the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).  That HAMAS activities range from suicide bombings to other malevolent crimes against humanity, in attempts at a toppling of State of Israel. _("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.")_  It is also widely known that it is not only acceptable but a policy of the Palestinian Leadership to praise and venerate members of such organizations as the HAMAS, Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)  religion, all in the name of patriotism and acts of resistance.ª
> 
> 
> We have also discussed at great length the "underlining the need to prevent and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms and to prevent their diversion to the illicit market, or for unauthorized end use and end users, including in the commission of terrorist acts;" as it pertains to to the territory and its impact on regional security.  That it is a violation of International Law to incite terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance of the Jewish National Home.  That the action of HAMAS  poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of positive nationalism and its territorial economic stability, and social development of all States, and → their  activities which further erodes and undermines global stability and national prosperity.
> 
> Footnotes:____________________________
> *ª• Top 15 Most Dangerous Terrorist Organizations in the World* • Chris Diamond May 05, 2017 •
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> It is, within the Treaty → previous commentary, an agreement that it NOT authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) → if it has knowledge at the time of  that the arms or items would be used in the violation of customary and international humanitarian law (IHL), crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such, or other war crimes as defined by international agreements to which it is a Party.  Arms transfer in an attempt to provide material support to any number of asymmetric actors is prohibited.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, how does Israel get all its stuff?
Click to expand...


A great deal is developed and manufactured in Israel.

Now, you’re a little bit more educated than you were before. You will be sure to waste it, right?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> It has already been discussed the impact of enforcing Article 43, Hague Regulation, the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, within the territories.
> 
> *BLUF:  *The answer to your question is •  S/RES/1624 (2005)  •  and  •  The Arms Trade Treaty  • →
> 
> We have already discussed how it is known that the Governmental Authorities of the Palestinians both praise and support internationally recognized terrorist organizations, with (as an example) the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).  That HAMAS activities range from suicide bombings to other malevolent crimes against humanity, in attempts at a toppling of State of Israel. _("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.")_  It is also widely known that it is not only acceptable but a policy of the Palestinian Leadership to praise and venerate members of such organizations as the HAMAS, Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)  religion, all in the name of patriotism and acts of resistance.ª
> 
> 
> We have also discussed at great length the "underlining the need to prevent and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms and to prevent their diversion to the illicit market, or for unauthorized end use and end users, including in the commission of terrorist acts;" as it pertains to to the territory and its impact on regional security.  That it is a violation of International Law to incite terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance of the Jewish National Home.  That the action of HAMAS  poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of positive nationalism and its territorial economic stability, and social development of all States, and → their  activities which further erodes and undermines global stability and national prosperity.
> 
> Footnotes:____________________________
> *ª• Top 15 Most Dangerous Terrorist Organizations in the World* • Chris Diamond May 05, 2017 •
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is it illegal for Palestine to import weapons?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> It is, within the Treaty → previous commentary, an agreement that it NOT authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) → if it has knowledge at the time of  that the arms or items would be used in the violation of customary and international humanitarian law (IHL), crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such, or other war crimes as defined by international agreements to which it is a Party.  Arms transfer in an attempt to provide material support to any number of asymmetric actors is prohibited.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, how does Israel get all its stuff?
Click to expand...


Reading.  Try it sometime.


----------



## Hollie

The wondrous Islamist social order.


----------



## Hollie

Somebody has to pay for Mahmoud’s presidential jet.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Israel is NOT a rogue state under the control of an organization with a past history of "criminal acts"  intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public, to destabilize the overall security of the region.




P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, how does Israel get all its stuff?


*(COMMENT)*

Israel may be a lot of things, but few nations in the world have a profile like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have.  The HoAP hold the image of the classic model pictured of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  The HoAP represent a failed nation of people ingrained in a culture → to that end → encourage activities directed against the State of Israel (and allies) intended or calculated to instill an atmosphere of fear.  The HoAP represents and promotes a regime that furthers the unlawful and intentional use of weaponry against public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. In short the HoAP import and retain conventional arms for criminal purposes.

Israel is now, and has been for more than half a century, involved in self-defense operations.  It has, since it beginning, been a country that has made → and continues to make → positive contributions to the international community. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel is NOT a rogue state under the control of an organization with a past history of "criminal acts"  intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public, to destabilize the overall security of the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, how does Israel get all its stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel may be a lot of things, but few nations in the world have a profile like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have.  The HoAP hold the image of the classic model pictured of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  The HoAP represent a failed nation of people ingrained in a culture → to that end → encourage activities directed against the State of Israel (and allies) intended or calculated to instill an atmosphere of fear.  The HoAP represents and promotes a regime that furthers the unlawful and intentional use of weaponry against public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. In short the HoAP import and retain conventional arms for criminal purposes.
> 
> Israel is now, and has been for more than half a century, involved in self-defense operations.  It has, since it beginning, been a country that has made → and continues to make → positive contributions to the international community.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Israel may be a lot of things, but few nations in the world have a profile like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have.


Indeed, Israel's worldwide bullshit machine has done well.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Israel is NOT a rogue state under the control of an organization with a past history of "criminal acts"  intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public, to destabilize the overall security of the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, how does Israel get all its stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel may be a lot of things, but few nations in the world have a profile like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have.  The HoAP hold the image of the classic model pictured of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  The HoAP represent a failed nation of people ingrained in a culture → to that end → encourage activities directed against the State of Israel (and allies) intended or calculated to instill an atmosphere of fear.  The HoAP represents and promotes a regime that furthers the unlawful and intentional use of weaponry against public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. In short the HoAP import and retain conventional arms for criminal purposes.
> 
> Israel is now, and has been for more than half a century, involved in self-defense operations.  It has, since it beginning, been a country that has made → and continues to make → positive contributions to the international community.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel may be a lot of things, but few nations in the world have a profile like the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel's worldwide bullshit machine has done well.
Click to expand...


Indeed, that doesn't make sense. 

Indeed, you can't be surprised that the image of the Pal'istanian / islamic terrorist derives from the actions of Pal'istanian / islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

In case anyone missed the announcement, the Pal'istanian franchise of islamic gee-had has voiced its "natural right to capture Israeli soldiers". 

The video was shown on Iranian TV networks. While the Sunni and Shia versions of islam will grudgingly come together to cooperate in their shared Jew hatreds, nothing will stop these deranged loons from continuing their 1400 year long blood feud. They will continue to slaughter each other. Their favorite targets are each others mosques and shopping areas which present a target rich environment.



"Palestinian Islamic Jihad Showcases Military Capabilities on Iranian TV: It Is Our Natural Right to Capture Israeli Soldiers; We Have Rockets, New Tunnels"

On February 24, 2019, Al-Alam TV (Iran) aired a report about the Al-Quds Brigades, which is one of the military wings of the Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip. Abu Hamza, the Brigades' spokesman, said that the Al-Quds Brigades are a comprehensive military system that has many offensive and defensive capabilities and that Iran has been supporting the Palestinian fighters since the its establishment. The report showed fighters performing a drill that involved clearing rooms and the use mortars, RPGs, machine guns, .50-caliber sniper rifles, and explosives.


----------



## Sixties Fan

So how does this Arab-Israeli academic lay blame on Israel for that horrible Arab tribal institution of honor killings? Well, Shalhoub-Kevorkian hit upon the idea that Israeli soldiers must be raping these Arab girls who are then murdered by their families to preserve family honor because of these imaginary rapes.

Do you follow the tribalism here? As a women's rights expert, Shalhoub-Kevorkian opposes honor killings, but if it weren't for those nasty Israelis, this historic and horrendous Arab practice would not take place among the Arab population. It's the "occupation" that causes this to happen. (She ignores the growing spread of honor killings in the US perpetrated by immigrant Arabs), Currently, the PA has a six month prison sentence on the books for murderers of women in the Palestinian Authority. It has never been enforced.

This would no doubt have been discussed at a conference she wanted to attend in Tunisia, but she never made the trip, having put up such a fuss at Ben Gurion over the security procedures that she missed her flight.  However, her suggestions of Israeli culpability are not limited to the academic conferences of the totalitarian Arab states; Shalhoub-Kevorkian has also expressed similar ideas to students at USC and UCLA and now she’s at it again.

The fact that the Hebrew U, rape study showed that Israeli soldiers do not go near Palestinian Arab women does not deter Ms. Shalhoub-Kevorkian from repeating standard Arab propaganda buzz words and libel about Israel's Jews and the Arabs. In other words, Arabs are "humiliated" when they go through checkpoints that are set up by the Israeli government with an "apartheid wall", actually built to protect not only Israeli Jews, but even Israeli Arabs (like Ms. Shalhoub-Kevorkian) from terrorists and suicide bombers.

(full article online)

Lecture at Columbia University: Israel is selling Arab body parts


----------



## Sixties Fan

A video put out by Islamic Jihad on its military capabilities completely dispels the myth that Gazans cannot get the raw materials they need to build and manufacture things.

The progressive terror group's documentary has a woman interviewing masked terrorists whose voices are electronically altered  as she gets tours of their extensive tunnel network.





They built an entire (bomb-proof) Israeli village to attack and shoot rockets to, over and over again.

(full article, photos and video online)

Who says Gazans don't have resources to build and manufacture stuff? Terror groups sure can! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

An opioid crisis has quietly spread in the Gaza Strip, trapping thousands in the hell of addiction and adding another layer of misery to the blockaded and impoverished Hamas-controlled coastal territory.

The scourge can be traced to the mass import of cheap opioid-based ( )ramadol pain pills through smuggling tunnels under Gaza’s border more than a decade ago. A more addictive black-market form of the drug called Tramal has since taken hold.

(full article online)

Opioid crisis quietly engulfs Hamas-run Gaza Strip


----------



## Sixties Fan

These look like 10 or 11 inch tablet PCs, purchased very recently.

Somehow, there is always money for the things they really want. Which are rarely the same as what their people want.

(full article online)

Check out the Palestinian cabinet's new tablet PCs ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and Islamic Jihad should be given credit for their clarity and honesty regarding their ambitions. The two groups are clearly saying that their ultimate goal is to see Israel removed from the region and replaced with an Islamic state. As far as they are concerned, the conflict with Israel is not about a settlement, a checkpoint or even Jerusalem. Instead, it is about the presence of Jews in what they regard as their own state and homeland.


What will happen the day after a Palestinian state is established? The answer, according to Hamas and Islamic Jihad (and other Palestinians) is that they will use it to continue the "armed struggle" until the liberation of the supposedly occupied cities of Tel Aviv, Nazareth, Tiberias, Haifa and Ashdod. Under these current circumstances, a Palestinian state will pose an immediate existential danger to Israel.


The Islamic Jihad threat to turn Israeli cities into "hell" by firing missiles at them needs to be taken seriously by those who are working on the upcoming US peace plan. Any land that is given to Abbas and his Palestinian Authority in the West Bank will be used in the future by Hamas and Islamic Jihad as a base for launching rockets and missiles at Israeli cities. Then, the terror groups will not need accurate, long-range rockets to achieve their plan to destroy Israel's population centers: they will be sitting right across the street from them.

(full article online)

Palestinians: "No Place for the Zionist Entity in Palestine"


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

Yes, I agree.

*(THOUGHTS IN SUPPORT)*

And herein lays the rub, in terms of any successful negotiation, mediation, conciliation, settlement, peaceful means.

While the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation  among States (A/RES/2625) operates under the assumption that both the Israeli and Arab Palestinian Governments not only has the duty to refrain from → criminal behaviors and acts of terrorism, → but has gone well beyond the threat of force, and has → for more than half a century → participated in the unprecedented use of force.   This use of force has the calculated criminal intent to create a mental picture of foreboding suspicion in the minds of the Israeli citizenry and an apprehensiveness in the atmosphere that an attack from Hostile Arab Palestinians is impending.

And, yes indeed, that HoAP is quite clear and concise about the barbaric nature of the HoAP and the willingness to not only engage in attacks that are strikes against civilians or civilians without distinction from a military objective. 



Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas and Islamic Jihad should be given credit for their clarity and honesty regarding their ambitions. The two groups are clearly saying that their ultimate goal is to see Israel removed from the region and replaced with an Islamic state. As far as they are concerned, the conflict with Israel is not about a settlement, a checkpoint or even Jerusalem. Instead, it is about the presence of Jews in what they regard as their own state and homeland.
> 
> 
> What will happen the day after a Palestinian state is established? The answer, according to Hamas and Islamic Jihad (and other Palestinians) is that they will use it to continue the "armed struggle" until the liberation of the supposedly occupied cities of Tel Aviv, Nazareth, Tiberias, Haifa and Ashdod. Under these current circumstances, a Palestinian state will pose an immediate existential danger to Israel.
> 
> 
> The Islamic Jihad threat to turn Israeli cities into "hell" by firing missiles at them needs to be taken seriously by those who are working on the upcoming US peace plan. Any land that is given to Abbas and his Palestinian Authority in the West Bank will be used in the future by Hamas and Islamic Jihad as a base for launching rockets and missiles at Israeli cities. Then, the terror groups will not need accurate, long-range rockets to achieve their plan to destroy Israel's population centers: they will be sitting right across the street from them.


*(COMMENT)*

The characteristics of their culture, the eyes of the HoAP, are characterized by persistent antisemitic behaviors and the anti-Israeli tendencies, the culturally impaired mental capacity to practise tolerance → and → living together in peace with one another → as good neighbours, to show any empathy and remorse, and a notion of right and wrong → or  → good and evil.  The application of moral judgment on the part of the HoAP is essentially nonexistent in the pursuit of their political goal → unreasonable agenda and violence to influence governments or prevent a negotiated settlement... 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Grinding out the next generation of Death Cultists.

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult is a literal cradle to (early) grave plan that establishes a life of vicious hate / self-hate that assures another generation of Death Cultists.

".... _he praised one million of Gaza's "children" for having "enrolled" in a national, Islamic, Jihadi, religious "course" that included "fence-breaking and confrontation."
_
It should be noted that "fence breaking and confrontation" are among the skills truly in demand by employers most everywhere.  


"Hamas Political Bureau Member Fathi Hammad: Kindergartens, Elementary Schools, Middle Schools Will Teach Gaza's Children How to Liberate Palestine; Our Youth Should Join Al-Aqsa and Al-Qassam Brigades" 

_On February 19, 2019, Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad said that the Arab regimes that have normalized relations with Israel will be "buried in the trash heaps of history" alongside the Jews, who are Allah's enemies. He said that the children of Gaza will be taught how to liberate their land in the kindergartens, elementary schools, and he praised one million of Gaza's "children" for having "enrolled" in a national, Islamic, Jihadi, religious "course" that included "fence-breaking and confrontation." Hammad called on the youth of Palestine and Gaza to join the mujahideen and the Al-Quds and Al-Qassam Brigades. Of February 22, 2019, Hammad said that the Palestinians will cleanse Palestine of the filth of the Zionist enemy and that they will stop only at martyrdom and victory. He then joined a chant of: "With our souls and blood we will redeem you, oh Al-Aqsa!" Fathi's statements on both occasions were aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas/Gaza)._


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Just look at all the spiffy gadgets Abbas buys for the population in order to avoid a peace treaty with Israel.  Feeding a war against Jews is more important than feeding a people, or clean water, building electricity infrastructure..........Where is all of these money coming from?  ]




Zakaria Zubeidi, the local commander of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, and other gunmen march along the streets of the West Bank town of Jenin on April 2, 2005. (Mohammed Ballas/AP Photo)

(full article online)

Israel arrests former terrorist leader, citing ‘serious’ current activities


----------



## Sixties Fan

In 1974, the PLO established the "phased plan" to destroy Israel. Even then, the goal was not an independent Palestinian state, but to destroy Israel in stages - to grab whatever territory it can by any means, using it as a platform to grab more - with an independent Palestinian Arab state just a temporary step on the way towards a pan-Arab state:

2. The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated. This will require further changes being effected in the balance of power in favor of our people and their struggle.

3. The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights, and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of their homeland.

4. Any step taken towards liberation is a step towards the realization of the Liberation Organization’s strategy of establishing the democratic Palestinian State specified in the resolutions of the previous Palestinian National Councils.

8. Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity.



And immediately after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords in 1993, he told a radio station that the accords

"...will be a basis for an independent Palestinian state in accordance with the Palestine National Council resolution issued in 1974... The PNC resolution issued in 1974 calls for the establishment of a national authority on any part of Palestinian soil from which Israel withdraws or which is liberated."


Arafat habitually referred to the 1974 plan during Oslo. This is the basis for the "good cop, bad cop" routine we are seeing between Abbas and Hamas - one trying to grab territory by ostensibly peaceful means, one by war, both with the same ultimate goal that was codified in Cairo in 1974.



Seen in this context, it makes perfect sense that while the PLO now has all Western countries pressuring Israel to withdraw to the Green Line, that the next stage start to be prepared now.


(full article online)

"Galilee Freedom Batallions" and the 1974 PLO "phased plan" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Impending PA financial crisis follows Abbas decision to not accept Israeli transfers of approx. 670 million shekels/month after Israel decided to deduct 41 million shekels/month from PA tax money equivalent to the amount PA pays terrorist prisoners*

“PA Minister of Finance announced that the [PA] government will pay the salaries of the public employees on time, but they are likely to be partial, other than the pension stipends and the allowances of the families of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners, which will be paid in full.”

PA TV: “Our Martyrs and prisoners (i.e., terrorists and murderers) are the source of our glory and pride. They are more honorable than all of us.”

PA Prime Minister: “The payment of the money to the prisoners and Martyrs' families is our responsibility, not a gift or grant but rather an inseparable part of the social contract between the state and its citizens.”

PA Minister of Finance: “There is an official decision... not to accept the tax money if even a single penny is missing from it."

PLO Director of Prisoners’ Affairs threatens violence: “The blatant theft ... will be tantamount to an actual bomb that will blow up in the face of the occupation.”

(full article online)

PA will cut all Palestinian salaries, except for terrorists and their families - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In 1974, the PLO established the "phased plan" to destroy Israel. Even then, the goal was not an independent Palestinian state, but to destroy Israel in stages - to grab whatever territory it can by any means, using it as a platform to grab more - with an independent Palestinian Arab state just a temporary step on the way towards a pan-Arab state:
> 
> 2. The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated. This will require further changes being effected in the balance of power in favor of our people and their struggle.
> 
> 3. The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights, and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of their homeland.
> 
> 4. Any step taken towards liberation is a step towards the realization of the Liberation Organization’s strategy of establishing the democratic Palestinian State specified in the resolutions of the previous Palestinian National Councils.
> 
> 8. Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity.
> 
> 
> 
> And immediately after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords in 1993, he told a radio station that the accords
> 
> "...will be a basis for an independent Palestinian state in accordance with the Palestine National Council resolution issued in 1974... The PNC resolution issued in 1974 calls for the establishment of a national authority on any part of Palestinian soil from which Israel withdraws or which is liberated."
> 
> 
> Arafat habitually referred to the 1974 plan during Oslo. This is the basis for the "good cop, bad cop" routine we are seeing between Abbas and Hamas - one trying to grab territory by ostensibly peaceful means, one by war, both with the same ultimate goal that was codified in Cairo in 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> Seen in this context, it makes perfect sense that while the PLO now has all Western countries pressuring Israel to withdraw to the Green Line, that the next stage start to be prepared now.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Galilee Freedom Batallions" and the 1974 PLO "phased plan" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1974, the PLO established the "phased plan" to destroy Israel. Even then, the goal was not an independent Palestinian state, but to destroy Israel in stages - to grab whatever territory it can by any means, using it as a platform to grab more - with an independent Palestinian Arab state just a temporary step on the way towards a pan-Arab state:
> 
> 2. The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated. This will require further changes being effected in the balance of power in favor of our people and their struggle.
> 
> 3. The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights, and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of their homeland.
> 
> 4. Any step taken towards liberation is a step towards the realization of the Liberation Organization’s strategy of establishing the democratic Palestinian State specified in the resolutions of the previous Palestinian National Councils.
> 
> 8. Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity.
> 
> 
> 
> And immediately after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords in 1993, he told a radio station that the accords
> 
> "...will be a basis for an independent Palestinian state in accordance with the Palestine National Council resolution issued in 1974... The PNC resolution issued in 1974 calls for the establishment of a national authority on any part of Palestinian soil from which Israel withdraws or which is liberated."
> 
> 
> Arafat habitually referred to the 1974 plan during Oslo. This is the basis for the "good cop, bad cop" routine we are seeing between Abbas and Hamas - one trying to grab territory by ostensibly peaceful means, one by war, both with the same ultimate goal that was codified in Cairo in 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> Seen in this context, it makes perfect sense that while the PLO now has all Western countries pressuring Israel to withdraw to the Green Line, that the next stage start to be prepared now.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Galilee Freedom Batallions" and the 1974 PLO "phased plan" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
Click to expand...


A portion of Palestine is already an independent state liberated from a failed Islamist caliphate.

The State of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *Impending PA financial crisis follows Abbas decision to not accept Israeli transfers of approx. 670 million shekels/month after Israel decided to deduct 41 million shekels/month from PA tax money equivalent to the amount PA pays terrorist prisoners*
> 
> “PA Minister of Finance announced that the [PA] government will pay the salaries of the public employees on time, but they are likely to be partial, other than the pension stipends and the allowances of the families of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners, which will be paid in full.”
> 
> PA TV: “Our Martyrs and prisoners (i.e., terrorists and murderers) are the source of our glory and pride. They are more honorable than all of us.”
> 
> PA Prime Minister: “The payment of the money to the prisoners and Martyrs' families is our responsibility, not a gift or grant but rather an inseparable part of the social contract between the state and its citizens.”
> 
> PA Minister of Finance: “There is an official decision... not to accept the tax money if even a single penny is missing from it."
> 
> PLO Director of Prisoners’ Affairs threatens violence: “The blatant theft ... will be tantamount to an actual bomb that will blow up in the face of the occupation.”
> (full article online)
> 
> PA will cut all Palestinian salaries, except for terrorists and their families - PMW Bulletins


The Palestinians are not going to accept a change of the treaty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1974, the PLO established the "phased plan" to destroy Israel. Even then, the goal was not an independent Palestinian state, but to destroy Israel in stages - to grab whatever territory it can by any means, using it as a platform to grab more - with an independent Palestinian Arab state just a temporary step on the way towards a pan-Arab state:
> 
> 2. The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated. This will require further changes being effected in the balance of power in favor of our people and their struggle.
> 
> 3. The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights, and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of their homeland.
> 
> 4. Any step taken towards liberation is a step towards the realization of the Liberation Organization’s strategy of establishing the democratic Palestinian State specified in the resolutions of the previous Palestinian National Councils.
> 
> 8. Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity.
> 
> 
> 
> And immediately after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords in 1993, he told a radio station that the accords
> 
> "...will be a basis for an independent Palestinian state in accordance with the Palestine National Council resolution issued in 1974... The PNC resolution issued in 1974 calls for the establishment of a national authority on any part of Palestinian soil from which Israel withdraws or which is liberated."
> 
> 
> Arafat habitually referred to the 1974 plan during Oslo. This is the basis for the "good cop, bad cop" routine we are seeing between Abbas and Hamas - one trying to grab territory by ostensibly peaceful means, one by war, both with the same ultimate goal that was codified in Cairo in 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> Seen in this context, it makes perfect sense that while the PLO now has all Western countries pressuring Israel to withdraw to the Green Line, that the next stage start to be prepared now.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Galilee Freedom Batallions" and the 1974 PLO "phased plan" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A portion of Palestine is already an independent state liberated from a failed Islamist caliphate.
> 
> The State of Israel.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Impending PA financial crisis follows Abbas decision to not accept Israeli transfers of approx. 670 million shekels/month after Israel decided to deduct 41 million shekels/month from PA tax money equivalent to the amount PA pays terrorist prisoners*
> 
> “PA Minister of Finance announced that the [PA] government will pay the salaries of the public employees on time, but they are likely to be partial, other than the pension stipends and the allowances of the families of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners, which will be paid in full.”
> 
> PA TV: “Our Martyrs and prisoners (i.e., terrorists and murderers) are the source of our glory and pride. They are more honorable than all of us.”
> 
> PA Prime Minister: “The payment of the money to the prisoners and Martyrs' families is our responsibility, not a gift or grant but rather an inseparable part of the social contract between the state and its citizens.”
> 
> PA Minister of Finance: “There is an official decision... not to accept the tax money if even a single penny is missing from it."
> 
> PLO Director of Prisoners’ Affairs threatens violence: “The blatant theft ... will be tantamount to an actual bomb that will blow up in the face of the occupation.”
> (full article online)
> 
> PA will cut all Palestinian salaries, except for terrorists and their families - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not going to accept a change of the treaty.
Click to expand...


Mullah Pffffft Tinmore has issued his fatwa.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1974, the PLO established the "phased plan" to destroy Israel. Even then, the goal was not an independent Palestinian state, but to destroy Israel in stages - to grab whatever territory it can by any means, using it as a platform to grab more - with an independent Palestinian Arab state just a temporary step on the way towards a pan-Arab state:
> 
> 2. The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated. This will require further changes being effected in the balance of power in favor of our people and their struggle.
> 
> 3. The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights, and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of their homeland.
> 
> 4. Any step taken towards liberation is a step towards the realization of the Liberation Organization’s strategy of establishing the democratic Palestinian State specified in the resolutions of the previous Palestinian National Councils.
> 
> 8. Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity.
> 
> 
> 
> And immediately after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords in 1993, he told a radio station that the accords
> 
> "...will be a basis for an independent Palestinian state in accordance with the Palestine National Council resolution issued in 1974... The PNC resolution issued in 1974 calls for the establishment of a national authority on any part of Palestinian soil from which Israel withdraws or which is liberated."
> 
> 
> Arafat habitually referred to the 1974 plan during Oslo. This is the basis for the "good cop, bad cop" routine we are seeing between Abbas and Hamas - one trying to grab territory by ostensibly peaceful means, one by war, both with the same ultimate goal that was codified in Cairo in 1974.
> 
> 
> 
> Seen in this context, it makes perfect sense that while the PLO now has all Western countries pressuring Israel to withdraw to the Green Line, that the next stage start to be prepared now.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> "Galilee Freedom Batallions" and the 1974 PLO "phased plan" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A portion of Palestine is already an independent state liberated from a failed Islamist caliphate.
> 
> The State of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Lots. Do a search. 

dissolution of the ottoman empire


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. I suppose the globe needs to step up their welfare payments.



PMW Bulletins

PA will cut all Palestinian salaries, except for terrorists and their families - PMW Bulletins


by Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus
Feb. 27, 2019 "

*PA to cut salaries of all Palestinian workers
but won’t cut salaries 
of imprisoned terrorists and murderers
who will be paid in full*

*Impending PA financial crisis follows Abbas decision to not accept Israeli transfers of approx. 670 million shekels/month after Israel decided to deduct 41 million shekels/month from PA tax money equivalent to the amount PA pays terrorist prisoners*

*“PA Minister of Finance announced that the [PA] government will pay the salaries of the public employees on time, but they are likely to be partial, other than the pension stipends and the allowances of the families of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners, which will be paid in full.”*

*PA TV: “Our Martyrs and prisoners (i.e., terrorists and murderers) are the source of our glory and pride. They are more honorable than all of us.”*

*PA Prime Minister: “The payment of the money to the prisoners and Martyrs' families is our responsibility, not a gift or grant but rather an inseparable part of the social contract between the state and its citizens.”*

*PA Minister of Finance: “There is an official decision... not to accept the tax money if even a single penny is missing from it."*

*PLO Director of Prisoners’ Affairs threatens violence: “The blatant theft ... will be tantamount to an actual bomb that will blow up in the face of the occupation.”*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Surely you jest.



P F Tinmore said:


> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?


*(COMMENT)*

Independence implies two things:

◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty. 

◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Surely you jest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Independence implies two things:
> 
> ◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
> In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Occupations do not negate the right to sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Surely you jest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Independence implies two things:
> 
> ◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
> In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not negate the right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...


You didn't understand any of what was offered to you.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you only tell have the story.




 ​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely you jest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Independence implies two things:
> 
> ◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
> In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not negate the right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Periodically you bring this point up.  And it has to be re-explained to you over and over again.

FIRST:  

✦  You are correct, that  → "occupation" does not "*negate*" the "right of sovereignty."​SECOND: 

✦  The inverse is just as true, that  → "right of sovereignty" does not "*negate*" the "occupation."​This is a question of understanding negative rights:

•  negative rights usually oblige inaction  •
Re-Evaluated
✦ "right of sovereignty" usually "oblige inaction" ✦ ​
THIRD: 

✦  The → "right of sovereignty" is a "negative right."​
Just because you have the "right to sovereignty" does not mean the power that maintains effective control must give way _(positive rights that oblige an action to give way)_ to the claimant.  

What the "right to sovereignty" means is that given the opportunity the Arab Palestinians have the political right to attempt independence _(given no objection by the Power holding effective control)_.  It does not mean that an "Occupation Power" must give-up the territory under its effective control.  That would be to oblige an action _(handing over territory)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you only tell have the story.
> 
> View attachment 248050​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely you jest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Independence implies two things:
> 
> ◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
> In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not negate the right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Periodically you bring this point up.  And it has to be re-explained to you over and over again.
> 
> FIRST:
> 
> ✦  You are correct, that  → "occupation" does not "*negate*" the "right of sovereignty."​SECOND:
> 
> ✦  The inverse is just as true, that  → "right of sovereignty" does not "*negate*" the "occupation."​This is a question of understanding negative rights:
> 
> •  negative rights usually oblige inaction  •
> Re-Evaluated
> ✦ "right of sovereignty" usually "oblige inaction" ✦​
> THIRD:
> 
> ✦  The → "right of sovereignty" is a "negative right."​
> Just because you have the "right to sovereignty" does not mean the power that maintains effective control must give way _(positive rights that oblige an action to give way)_ to the claimant.
> 
> What the "right to sovereignty" means is that given the opportunity the Arab Palestinians have the political right to attempt independence _(given no objection by the Power holding effective control)_.  It does not mean that an "Occupation Power" must give-up the territory under its effective control.  That would be to oblige an action _(handing over territory)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What are the Palestinians asking Israel to give up?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you only tell have the story.
> 
> View attachment 248050​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely you jest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Independence implies two things:
> 
> ◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
> In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not negate the right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Periodically you bring this point up.  And it has to be re-explained to you over and over again.
> 
> FIRST:
> 
> ✦  You are correct, that  → "occupation" does not "*negate*" the "right of sovereignty."​SECOND:
> 
> ✦  The inverse is just as true, that  → "right of sovereignty" does not "*negate*" the "occupation."​This is a question of understanding negative rights:
> 
> •  negative rights usually oblige inaction  •
> Re-Evaluated
> ✦ "right of sovereignty" usually "oblige inaction" ✦​
> THIRD:
> 
> ✦  The → "right of sovereignty" is a "negative right."​
> Just because you have the "right to sovereignty" does not mean the power that maintains effective control must give way _(positive rights that oblige an action to give way)_ to the claimant.
> 
> What the "right to sovereignty" means is that given the opportunity the Arab Palestinians have the political right to attempt independence _(given no objection by the Power holding effective control)_.  It does not mean that an "Occupation Power" must give-up the territory under its effective control.  That would be to oblige an action _(handing over territory)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the Palestinians asking Israel to give up?
Click to expand...

You know very well.  Just check the Map of Palestine.

Enough said.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you only tell have the story.
> 
> View attachment 248050​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely you jest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can liberated Palestine not be an independent state?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Independence implies two things:
> 
> ◈  No latent government or government in exile takes immediate control and begins exercising sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  No other real authority exercises the control over the territory maintains the real control.​
> In the case of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there was no _(working)_ Palestinian government waiting and no territory to which the Arab Palestinian exercised sovereign governmental powers.  In other words, there had to be a Palestinian Government that was displaced and in exile or a  _(which there was not)_ or upon liberation, there was no other government already in control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations do not negate the right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Periodically you bring this point up.  And it has to be re-explained to you over and over again.
> 
> FIRST:
> 
> ✦  You are correct, that  → "occupation" does not "*negate*" the "right of sovereignty."​SECOND:
> 
> ✦  The inverse is just as true, that  → "right of sovereignty" does not "*negate*" the "occupation."​This is a question of understanding negative rights:
> 
> •  negative rights usually oblige inaction  •
> Re-Evaluated
> ✦ "right of sovereignty" usually "oblige inaction" ✦​
> THIRD:
> 
> ✦  The → "right of sovereignty" is a "negative right."​
> Just because you have the "right to sovereignty" does not mean the power that maintains effective control must give way _(positive rights that oblige an action to give way)_ to the claimant.
> 
> What the "right to sovereignty" means is that given the opportunity the Arab Palestinians have the political right to attempt independence _(given no objection by the Power holding effective control)_.  It does not mean that an "Occupation Power" must give-up the territory under its effective control.  That would be to oblige an action _(handing over territory)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the Palestinians asking Israel to give up?
Click to expand...


Their lives. 

Read the Hamas charter. 

Listen to islamic gee-had.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas member dies of "heart attack" while in attack tunnel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Lets look at this another way_*!*_

Let's do something easy...

Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?

Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?

Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Lets look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Lets look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.
Click to expand...

They have to be ON the land.  Neither Egypt, nor Israel are on Gaza.

And Israel is not on Areas A or B.

It totally debunks your theory, but of course you are speaking of ALL the area of the Mandate for Palestine which the Muslims do not have any sovereignty on, or rather, are Occupying, the same way as the Hashemites are occupying TransJordan since 1925.

"Israel does not exist" is your mantra.

We got that a long time ago.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Lets look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.
Click to expand...


Inability to be create sovereignty does not equal sovereignty. You can't just wish for it.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

1.  I did not say that "military control" was the same as "sovereignty."  This is just an attempt to avoid the question.

2.  You cannot have sovereignty over the territory for which you have no control.  You cannot have a successful claim of sovereignty over another countries territorial control.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Q4:  What sovereignty do the Arab Palestinians claim?​
The reason you avoid answering these questions is because the answers themselves prove the Arab Palestinians have very little territory over which they might claim sovereignty.

✪  It is generally understood that the Arab Palestinians may NOT use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce aimed at Israel in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind.

✪  It is generally understood that the Arab Palestinians may NOT organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the Jewish National Home or the State of Israel.

✪  The use of Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter to deprive the Jewish Peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.

✪  Nothing in the _Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty_  (*A/RES/20/2131*) shall be construed as affecting in any manner Israels right of self-defense in the ongoing direct threats _(from 1947 to the present)_ expressed by the Arab Palestinians.  Israel may take whatever steps are necessary in the maintenance of territorial integrity and sovereignty, and to secure the safety of its citizenry.​
I find it rather charming for pro-Arab Palestinians to think that they have a right to improperly impose on the Israelis their sovereignty.  And I find it quite impossible for anyone to believe that the Arab Palestinians can just verbally take control and impose their sovereignty over a territory for which they have no territorial integrity or control.

When HM the King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, that this abandonment somehow left the territory to the Arab Palestinians when the Arab Palestinian had not yet declared independence and the Israelis had maintained control continuously from the 1967 Six-Day War to present.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Lets look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

The happy-fun islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and Abbas'istan are trading new accusations after Abbas has decreed new cuts to welfare payments affecting many in gaza.

What is laughably absurd is that the two competing mini-caliphates are operated as little more than rival street gangs engaged in a turf war. 

Imagine the Crips and the Bloods with Korans. 



Gaza's breadwinners defiant in the face of Palestinian Authority salary cuts

Following Hamas's rise to power in Gaza, the PA requested that its 70,000 civil servants in the Strip - many of whom were members of the Palestinian security forces - cease working under Hamas, but continued to pay them.

The PA currently employs around 50,000 people in Gaza who still receive a salary despite not having worked since 2007 - a move it says is carried out to ensure their loyalty and inject much-needed money into Gaza's stricken economy.

Today, only a few thousand are estimated to still be actually working, mainly in the critical health and education sectors - the very workers who were targeted by the PA in this month's cuts.

Since the conflict between the two factions began, Hamas has meanwhile set up its own parallel administration with about 50,000 staff, whose salaries the PA refuses to pay.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 1.  I did not say that "military control" was the same as "sovereignty."  This is just an attempt to avoid the question.
> 
> 2.  You cannot have sovereignty over the territory for which you have no control.  You cannot have a successful claim of sovereignty over another countries territorial control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q4:  What sovereignty do the Arab Palestinians claim?​
> The reason you avoid answering these questions is because the answers themselves prove the Arab Palestinians have very little territory over which they might claim sovereignty.
> 
> ✪  It is generally understood that the Arab Palestinians may NOT use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce aimed at Israel in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind.
> 
> ✪  It is generally understood that the Arab Palestinians may NOT organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the Jewish National Home or the State of Israel.
> 
> ✪  The use of Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter to deprive the Jewish Peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.
> 
> ✪  Nothing in the _Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty_  (*A/RES/20/2131*) shall be construed as affecting in any manner Israels right of self-defense in the ongoing direct threats _(from 1947 to the present)_ expressed by the Arab Palestinians.  Israel may take whatever steps are necessary in the maintenance of territorial integrity and sovereignty, and to secure the safety of its citizenry.​
> I find it rather charming for pro-Arab Palestinians to think that they have a right to improperly impose on the Israelis their sovereignty.  And I find it quite impossible for anyone to believe that the Arab Palestinians can just verbally take control and impose their sovereignty over a territory for which they have no territorial integrity or control.
> 
> When HM the King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, that this abandonment somehow left the territory to the Arab Palestinians when the Arab Palestinian had not yet declared independence and the Israelis had maintained control continuously from the 1967 Six-Day War to present.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestine has been under military occupation for a hundred years. This has prevented them from exercising their right to sovereignty.


----------



## Sixties Fan

February 4, 2019 marked an important, albeit unheralded, date: the fiftieth anniversary of the ascension of Fatah in Palestinian politics. On Feb. 4, 1969, the movement’s founder, the Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat, was appointed chair of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). For most of the half century since, Fatah has dominated Palestinian affairs—with fateful consequences for the Middle East and beyond.

Arafat, his biographer Barry Rubin wrote, “succeeded at creating and remaining the leader of the globe’s longest-running revolutionary movement.” Yet both he and Fatah would also lead “his people into more disasters and defeats than any counterpart.”

It was a swift, but uneven, rise for both.

Arafat and about fifteen others founded Fatah on Oct. 10, 1959 in a private home in Kuwait. At the time, Arafat was an engineer working for Kuwait’s Department of Public Works. Most of his compatriots were young Palestinian students or workers employed in the country, which was then experiencing an oil boom and economic growth. They called themselves Harakat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyya (Palestinian Liberation Movement), whose acronym reversed spells Fatah, which means “conquest.”

(full article online)

CAMERA Op-Ed: The Rise of Fatah, Fifty Years On


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 1.  I did not say that "military control" was the same as "sovereignty."  This is just an attempt to avoid the question.
> 
> 2.  You cannot have sovereignty over the territory for which you have no control.  You cannot have a successful claim of sovereignty over another countries territorial control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's look at this another way_*!*_
> 
> Let's do something easy...
> 
> Q!:  When_ (what dates)_ did  the Jordanian have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q2:  When _(what dates) _did the Israelis have control of the West Bank?
> 
> Q3:  When _(what dates) _did the Arab Palestinians have control of the West Bank?​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Military control does not equal sovereignty. Occupations are military control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q4:  What sovereignty do the Arab Palestinians claim?​
> The reason you avoid answering these questions is because the answers themselves prove the Arab Palestinians have very little territory over which they might claim sovereignty.
> 
> ✪  It is generally understood that the Arab Palestinians may NOT use or encourage the use of economic, political or any other type of measures to coerce aimed at Israel in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign rights or to secure from it advantages of any kind.
> 
> ✪  It is generally understood that the Arab Palestinians may NOT organize, assist, foment, Finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the Jewish National Home or the State of Israel.
> 
> ✪  The use of Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter to deprive the Jewish Peoples of their national identity constitutes a violation of their inalienable rights and of the principle of non-intervention.
> 
> ✪  Nothing in the _Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of Their Independence and Sovereignty_  (*A/RES/20/2131*) shall be construed as affecting in any manner Israels right of self-defense in the ongoing direct threats _(from 1947 to the present)_ expressed by the Arab Palestinians.  Israel may take whatever steps are necessary in the maintenance of territorial integrity and sovereignty, and to secure the safety of its citizenry.​
> I find it rather charming for pro-Arab Palestinians to think that they have a right to improperly impose on the Israelis their sovereignty.  And I find it quite impossible for anyone to believe that the Arab Palestinians can just verbally take control and impose their sovereignty over a territory for which they have no territorial integrity or control.
> 
> When HM the King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, that this abandonment somehow left the territory to the Arab Palestinians when the Arab Palestinian had not yet declared independence and the Israelis had maintained control continuously from the 1967 Six-Day War to present.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has been under military occupation for a hundred years. This has prevented them from exercising their right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...


If we could arrange a four part harmony, I'd suggest we gather for a rousing chorus of "*awww, those Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians*"

You've been duped. Not a one of the various islamic terrorists / islamic terrorist franchises which have, and still are, using and abusing the UNRWA welfare fraud has any interest in soverignty, establishing a civil government or managing the affairs of government. 

What are Abbas or Islamic gee-had doing to further any effort toward establishing a viable, sovereign nation?

Shuffle off and find a YouTube video.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

AH, and here we circle back around to the question addressed in •  *Posting # 12523*  •.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has been under military occupation for a hundred years. This has prevented them from exercising their right to sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians are demanding that Israel give up the control of the territory even in the face of very distinct threats of the use of force.  And these are not idle threats. three times before, the Arab League banded together substantial forces and attempted a Regime Change by military invasion.  And for the last half-century, the Arab Palestinians, through more than a half-dozen Jihadist, Insurgent, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherent, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter organizations have launch attacks on commercial air flights, cruise ships, suicide bombing, direct attacks attacks in public places against unarmed civilians, launched thousands of rockets and mortars, kidnappings, murders visited upon women and children, etc etc, etc.   The Arab Palestinians have openly threatened the lives of Israeli citizens and threaten to end the Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinians want the Israelis to drop their guard and allow the Arab Palestinian threat the freedom to take advantage of that freedom to mount yet another assault on the territorial integrity of Israel just because of a few words on paper about the "right to sovereignty."  Now it would be damn foolish of the Israelis to think that the words on paper can protect the Israelis from the Arab Palestinians carrying-out their threats.  

No, I don't think the Israelis are going to allow the conditions to exist that would permit yet another major confrontation to "Liberate Palestine" through the destruction of Israel.  The Arab Palestinians have not set the conditions through deeds that would rationally set the conditions for a reduction in the suppression of these threats.  The Arab Palestinians continue to extend, not the olive branch, but the sword.

At the end of the day, the lack of security operations that suppress the Arab Palestinian potential to pursue further danger to the State of Israel would be a dereliction of duty on the part of the Israeli Leadership. 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> What are the Palestinians asking Israel to give up?




You mean something OTHER than their very lives?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> AH, and here we circle back around to the question addressed in •  *Posting # 12523*  •.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has been under military occupation for a hundred years. This has prevented them from exercising their right to sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are demanding that Israel give up the control of the territory even in the face of very distinct threats of the use of force.  And these are not idle threats. three times before, the Arab League banded together substantial forces and attempted a Regime Change by military invasion.  And for the last half-century, the Arab Palestinians, through more than a half-dozen Jihadist, Insurgent, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherent, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter organizations have launch attacks on commercial air flights, cruise ships, suicide bombing, direct attacks attacks in public places against unarmed civilians, launched thousands of rockets and mortars, kidnappings, murders visited upon women and children, etc etc, etc.   The Arab Palestinians have openly threatened the lives of Israeli citizens and threaten to end the Jewish National Home.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians want the Israelis to drop their guard and allow the Arab Palestinian threat the freedom to take advantage of that freedom to mount yet another assault on the territorial integrity of Israel just because of a few words on paper about the "right to sovereignty."  Now it would be damn foolish of the Israelis to think that the words on paper can protect the Israelis from the Arab Palestinians carrying-out their threats.
> 
> No, I don't think the Israelis are going to allow the conditions to exist that would permit yet another major confrontation to "Liberate Palestine" through the destruction of Israel.  The Arab Palestinians have not set the conditions through deeds that would rationally set the conditions for a reduction in the suppression of these threats.  The Arab Palestinians continue to extend, not the olive branch, but the sword.
> 
> At the end of the day, the lack of security operations that suppress the Arab Palestinian potential to pursue further danger to the State of Israel would be a dereliction of duty on the part of the Israeli Leadership.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel must defend its occupation and settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> AH, and here we circle back around to the question addressed in •  *Posting # 12523*  •.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has been under military occupation for a hundred years. This has prevented them from exercising their right to sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are demanding that Israel give up the control of the territory even in the face of very distinct threats of the use of force.  And these are not idle threats. three times before, the Arab League banded together substantial forces and attempted a Regime Change by military invasion.  And for the last half-century, the Arab Palestinians, through more than a half-dozen Jihadist, Insurgent, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherent, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter organizations have launch attacks on commercial air flights, cruise ships, suicide bombing, direct attacks attacks in public places against unarmed civilians, launched thousands of rockets and mortars, kidnappings, murders visited upon women and children, etc etc, etc.   The Arab Palestinians have openly threatened the lives of Israeli citizens and threaten to end the Jewish National Home.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians want the Israelis to drop their guard and allow the Arab Palestinian threat the freedom to take advantage of that freedom to mount yet another assault on the territorial integrity of Israel just because of a few words on paper about the "right to sovereignty."  Now it would be damn foolish of the Israelis to think that the words on paper can protect the Israelis from the Arab Palestinians carrying-out their threats.
> 
> No, I don't think the Israelis are going to allow the conditions to exist that would permit yet another major confrontation to "Liberate Palestine" through the destruction of Israel.  The Arab Palestinians have not set the conditions through deeds that would rationally set the conditions for a reduction in the suppression of these threats.  The Arab Palestinians continue to extend, not the olive branch, but the sword.
> 
> At the end of the day, the lack of security operations that suppress the Arab Palestinian potential to pursue further danger to the State of Israel would be a dereliction of duty on the part of the Israeli Leadership.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel must defend its occupation and settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


Actually, no. Hamas is looking to impose their settler colonial project. The goals of which are written out in their charter.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians automatic no to peace


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinians automatic no to peace


We already know what the so called peace plan will be.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Actually, you have this backward and you are 180º out of phase with the reality of the situation.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel must defend its occupation and settler colonial project.


*(COMMENT)*

The Settler outposts in the West Bank are in Area "C".  Area "C" represents some very strategic approach lanes or other key terrain.  The Settler Outposts are an allied (friendly) residential components introduced in close proximity over these approaches and key terrain.  This is an aspect of security in depth that cannot be relied upon from the Arab Palestinians inhabitants that have provided all manner of support to the Arab League and the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP); → there is no reasonable expectation that the local inhabitants will support in peace with its neighbors.

The key terrain and approach lanes necessary for a swift takeover of the Jewish State need a level of surveillance and observation that cannot be afforded in any other way → as the local residents are composed of HoAP _(meaning the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighters)_.  Thus, not only do the Jewish Settlements make economic and commercial improvements to these areas; at a pace the beyond which the Arab Palestinians can achieve, but the mere proximity of these settlments to the critical terrain adds to the early detection of HoAP activities that could be harmful to the sovereign integrity of Israel.

There are many many advantages or objective goals that these settlements contribute to Israel.  The security in depth is just one; _albeit_ a big one.  However, there are significant non-military contributions the settlements make on the impact at the political and diplomatic level.  The growth of the settlement and the increase in numbers has a direct correlation to the political and diplomatic failures on the part of the Arab Palestinian Leadership.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas is not denying that they are members. They merely say that they should be released because they "have never entered into any of Libya's internal affairs, and did not tamper with its security."

Which is pretty much an admission that they were smuggling weapons.

Their families say Libya should release them because there is fear that they will be extradited to Israel, which seems highly improbable.

Islamic Jihad issued a statement today supporting them, saying "Resistance is not a crime, it is an honor and pride for all those who support it."

(full article online)

Hamas, Islamic Jihad defend terrorists jailed in Libya ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

This is a type of defense comes in two Parts.

◈  The "Safe Haven" Defense.
◈  The Glorification of terrorism and Individual Terrorist Acts.​


			
				Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
			
		

> *PART I*
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> (c)  Deny *safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​2.  Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and,to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a )from entering their territory;
> SOURCE LINK:  UN Security Council Resolution ...





			
				Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
			
		

> *PART II*
> 
> Condemning also in the strongest terms the* incitement* of terrorist acts repudiating attempts at the *justification or glorification (apologie)* of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Deeply concerned that* incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance* poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability and prosperity,
> SOURCE LINK:  UN Security Council Resolution ...





Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas is not denying that they are members. They merely say that they should be released because they "have never entered into any of Libya's internal affairs, and did not tamper with its security."
> 
> Which is pretty much an admission that they were smuggling weapons.
> 
> Their families say Libya should release them because there is fear that they will be extradited to Israel, which seems highly improbable.
> 
> Islamic Jihad issued a statement today supporting them, saying "Resistance is not a crime, it is an honor and pride for all those who support it."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad defend terrorists jailed in Libya ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

The logic being used here is that the various Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter should be given a free pass, because their history of past criminal behaviors did not damage Libya or the Rule of Law within Libya.

The Citizens of the (so-called) State of Palestine actively supports the barbarity to the degree that they pay tribute each month to the perpetrator of terrorist acts.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is a type of defense comes in two Parts.
> 
> ◈  The "Safe Haven" Defense.
> ◈  The Glorification of terrorism and Individual Terrorist Acts.​
> 
> 
> 
> Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PART I*
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> (c)  Deny *safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​2.  Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and,to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a )from entering their territory;
> SOURCE LINK:  UN Security Council Resolution ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PART II*
> 
> Condemning also in the strongest terms the* incitement* of terrorist acts repudiating attempts at the *justification or glorification (apologie)* of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Deeply concerned that* incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance* poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability and prosperity,
> SOURCE LINK:  UN Security Council Resolution ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is not denying that they are members. They merely say that they should be released because they "have never entered into any of Libya's internal affairs, and did not tamper with its security."
> 
> Which is pretty much an admission that they were smuggling weapons.
> 
> Their families say Libya should release them because there is fear that they will be extradited to Israel, which seems highly improbable.
> 
> Islamic Jihad issued a statement today supporting them, saying "Resistance is not a crime, it is an honor and pride for all those who support it."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad defend terrorists jailed in Libya ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The logic being used here is that the various Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter should be given a free pass, because their history of past criminal behaviors did not damage Libya or the Rule of Law within Libya.
> 
> The Citizens of the (so-called) State of Palestine actively supports the barbarity to the degree that they pay tribute each month to the perpetrator of terrorist acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> This is a type of defense comes in two Parts.
> 
> ◈  The "Safe Haven" Defense.
> ◈  The Glorification of terrorism and Individual Terrorist Acts.​
> 
> 
> 
> Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PART I*
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> (c)  Deny *safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​2.  Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and,to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a )from entering their territory;
> SOURCE LINK:  UN Security Council Resolution ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PART II*
> 
> Condemning also in the strongest terms the* incitement* of terrorist acts repudiating attempts at the *justification or glorification (apologie)* of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Deeply concerned that* incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance* poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability and prosperity,
> SOURCE LINK:  UN Security Council Resolution ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is not denying that they are members. They merely say that they should be released because they "have never entered into any of Libya's internal affairs, and did not tamper with its security."
> 
> Which is pretty much an admission that they were smuggling weapons.
> 
> Their families say Libya should release them because there is fear that they will be extradited to Israel, which seems highly improbable.
> 
> Islamic Jihad issued a statement today supporting them, saying "Resistance is not a crime, it is an honor and pride for all those who support it."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad defend terrorists jailed in Libya ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The logic being used here is that the various Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter should be given a free pass, because their history of past criminal behaviors did not damage Libya or the Rule of Law within Libya.
> 
> The Citizens of the (so-called) State of Palestine actively supports the barbarity to the degree that they pay tribute each month to the perpetrator of terrorist acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Nothing but people being loud, at a loud protest.

Israel has the right to *resist* being destroyed by Christian and Muslim extremists.

Just remember that.


----------



## Hollie

The gauntlet has been laid down. 

The Abbas mini-caliphate is challenging the competiing Hamas mini-caliphate to allow elections as a way to bring democracy to Arabs-Moslems. Among Arab-Moslem retrogrades whose last foray into democracy was engaged with a civil war that included street shootings, torture, throwing people off of rooftops and other Islamo fun and games, the circus of islamic dictators continues. 

"Abbas Advisor Mohammed Ishtayeh Responds to MEMRI Analysis: We Challenge Hamas to Elections; PLO, Abbas Legitimate Representatives Regardless of Authority Split" 

_In a February 25, 2019 interview on SophieCo on Russia Today TV, Mohammed Ishtayeh, an advisor to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, was asked about his opinion regarding a MEMRI analysis that said that Hamas and the PLO both claim that the other no longer represents the Palestinian people (see MEMRI TV Inquiry & Analysis Series No. 1433). Ishtayeh answered that the testing field for this assumption is the opinion polls and ballot boxes and that the PLO challenges Hamas to accept the idea of elections in order to return democracy to the Palestinian political arena. Ishtayeh said that attempts to discredit the opposite parties only harm the Palestinian people because they will eventually cause the international community to reject both sides. He said that reconciliation is the solution to the problem, and added that Abbas and the PLO are internationally recognized as the legitimate representatives of the Palestinians even if there is a split in authority._


----------



## Hollie

Resistance is justified.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Muslims from Bosnia feel they are being "occupied" in Judea/Samaria ]

Teenage Palestinian Authority soldier-slapper Ahed Tamimi is back to inciting against Israel and Israelis again – the same kind of behavior that landed her in an Israeli prison barely a year ago – and may yet send her back if she doesn’t learn to watch her Ps and Qs, or at least her mouth.

This time she’s decided that she authority equal to that of any Islamic cleric, ruling it is “permissible (according to religion) to kill” MK Yehuda Glick.

“Justice Ahed’s” decision was handed down via her Instagram account:
“My soul is disgusted when I understand that he remains alive. It is better if he were dead. I hate him. Yehuda Glick is the most disgusting person on earth. It is permissible (according to religious) to kill him,” she wrote in Arabic. 

Glick re-posted and translated her wishes for him into Hebrew to make sure all of Israel could understand, introducing the post with the cheery greeting, “What a sweetie Ahed Tamimi is, really!” and concluding with a “fare thee well” at the bottom of the post: “There is no sweetness like this, anywhere.”

(full article online)

Convicted PA Soldier-Slapper Ahed Tamimi Incites Against MK Yehuda Glick, Saying It’s ‘Permissible to Kill’ Him


----------



## Sixties Fan

On February 19, 2019, Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad said that the Arab regimes that have normalized relations with Israel will be "buried in the trash heaps of history" alongside the Jews, who are Allah's enemies. He said that the children of Gaza will be taught how to liberate their land in the kindergartens, elementary schools, and he praised one million of Gaza's "children" for having "enrolled" in a national, Islamic, Jihadi, religious "course" that included "fence-breaking and confrontation." Hammad called on the youth of Palestine and Gaza to join the mujahideen and the Al-Quds and Al-Qassam Brigades. Of February 22, 2019, Hammad said that the Palestinians will cleanse Palestine of the filth of the Zionist enemy and that they will stop only at martyrdom and victory. He then joined a chant of: "With our souls and blood we will redeem you, oh Al-Aqsa!" Fathi's statements on both occasions were aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas/Gaza).

(vide video online)

Hamas Political Bureau Member: Schools Will Teach Gaza's Children How to Liberate Palestine


----------



## Sixties Fan

Instead of marching Palestinians towards democracy, the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas have chosen the model of totalitarianism as a way of governing their people. The pro-Abbas demonstrations organized by Fatah in the West Bank are reminiscent of dictatorships in the Arab world that send their loyalists to the streets to voice support for the ruler. The Hamas-sponsored anti-Abbas demonstrations in the Gaza Strip will not solve any of the crises facing the Palestinians there. These protests are Hamas's way of distracting attention from its failure to improve the living conditions of the people living under its repressive regime.


The only way for the Palestinians to move forward is by protesting against their failed leaders in the PA and Hamas. Many Palestinians, however, are afraid to speak out against their rulers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Why would any Palestinian speak out against Abbas when the PA arrests and harasses those who even dare to post critical remarks on Facebook? Why would any Palestinian in the Gaza Strip criticize Hamas when he or she knows that this would endanger their lives?


On April 9, Israelis will again celebrate democracy by voting in a free and democratic election. The Palestinians, meanwhile, will mark another year of dictatorship and failed leadership, and will continue to dream about heading to any ballot box at all.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Marching Backwards as Israel Prepares for Elections


----------



## Sixties Fan

Q: What does the IDF do in the face of such complex challenges?

A: The IDF has developed a range of methods avoid harming noncombatants. We have developed an advanced system for alerting civilians of imminent strikes, giving them a chance to evacuate. When feasible, we also use “roof knocking”—the practice of dropping empty or low munitions on the roofs of structures, giving civilians who did not heed those warnings a second chance to escape before a strike. It saves lives. Sometimes, we also cancel attacks even after a missile is in the air when circumstances on the ground change, and we see civilians approach targets. We invest a lot in precision intelligence to achieve this. These techniques allow us to hit the enemy without hitting civilians, despite the fact that the enemy wants us to hit their civilians.

In situations where enemy targets are surrounded by large numbers of civilians to an extent where the collateral damage might be excessive, the IDF will not strike. “Operation Protective Edge” resulted in some 2,000 casualties on the Palestinian side, half of which were combatants and the other half were civilians. Every loss of civilian life is tragic. But this ratio is far lower than other civilian-to-combatant ratios in the world. There were more than 6,000 air attacks in that conflict and thousands more from ground platforms.

The IDF is always investing more in this—learning, improving intelligence and developing technology for accurate strikes. I travel the world and speak with colleagues in other militaries. I can say with full confidence that we have nothing to be ashamed of in this field. We have at the very least the same standard as other modern militaries, and in many ways, we are ahead of them. Delegations that visit us have people telling us, “Why have you raised the bar so high? It will be hard to match it.”

(full article online)

Hamas, Hezbollah ‘hide missiles in children’s rooms,’ says ex-IDF senior officer on US tour


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jason Greenblatt, the United States Special Representative for International Negotiations, on Thursday, slammed a senior Palestinian official for sabotaging the Trump administration’s peace initiative.

Greenblatt wrote on Twitter that Saeb Erekat, the Secretary-General of the Palestine Liberation Organization’s Executive Committee, had characterized efforts to broker a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians as “an apartheid system with ghettos for Palestinians.”

The envoy blasted Erekat for disparaging a peace deal which has not get been revealed to relevant parties. “Saeb, regretfully you continue to deceive your people – you know nothing about the contents of our plan,” Greenblatt said.

“Your speculation is not helpful and to the contrary, it harms the Palestinian people and the prospects for peace. What exactly do you hope to achieve with this speculation?” he asked.

Greenblatt cited a comment by Erekat in which the Palestinian official suggested that “Hamas and all those calling on President Abbas to resign and the PLO to dissolve itself are tools being used to implement the deal of the century …”

The envoy dismissed the comment as conspiracy theory devoid of evidence. “Saeb- We aren’t working w/ Hamas. You know that,” Greenblatt tweeted.

(full article online)

U.S. Envoy Slams PA for "Disparaging" Peace Efforts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Jason Greenblatt, the United States Special Representative for International Negotiations, on Thursday, slammed a senior Palestinian official for sabotaging the Trump administration’s peace initiative.
> 
> Greenblatt wrote on Twitter that Saeb Erekat, the Secretary-General of the Palestine Liberation Organization’s Executive Committee, had characterized efforts to broker a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians as “an apartheid system with ghettos for Palestinians.”
> 
> The envoy blasted Erekat for disparaging a peace deal which has not get been revealed to relevant parties. “Saeb, regretfully you continue to deceive your people – you know nothing about the contents of our plan,” Greenblatt said.
> 
> “Your speculation is not helpful and to the contrary, it harms the Palestinian people and the prospects for peace. What exactly do you hope to achieve with this speculation?” he asked.
> 
> Greenblatt cited a comment by Erekat in which the Palestinian official suggested that “Hamas and all those calling on President Abbas to resign and the PLO to dissolve itself are tools being used to implement the deal of the century …”
> 
> The envoy dismissed the comment as conspiracy theory devoid of evidence. “Saeb- We aren’t working w/ Hamas. You know that,” Greenblatt tweeted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> U.S. Envoy Slams PA for "Disparaging" Peace Efforts





Sixties Fan said:


> had characterized efforts to broker a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians as “an apartheid system with ghettos for Palestinians.”


True, of course.

Watch this space.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jason Greenblatt, the United States Special Representative for International Negotiations, on Thursday, slammed a senior Palestinian official for sabotaging the Trump administration’s peace initiative.
> 
> Greenblatt wrote on Twitter that Saeb Erekat, the Secretary-General of the Palestine Liberation Organization’s Executive Committee, had characterized efforts to broker a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians as “an apartheid system with ghettos for Palestinians.”
> 
> The envoy blasted Erekat for disparaging a peace deal which has not get been revealed to relevant parties. “Saeb, regretfully you continue to deceive your people – you know nothing about the contents of our plan,” Greenblatt said.
> 
> “Your speculation is not helpful and to the contrary, it harms the Palestinian people and the prospects for peace. What exactly do you hope to achieve with this speculation?” he asked.
> 
> Greenblatt cited a comment by Erekat in which the Palestinian official suggested that “Hamas and all those calling on President Abbas to resign and the PLO to dissolve itself are tools being used to implement the deal of the century …”
> 
> The envoy dismissed the comment as conspiracy theory devoid of evidence. “Saeb- We aren’t working w/ Hamas. You know that,” Greenblatt tweeted.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> U.S. Envoy Slams PA for "Disparaging" Peace Efforts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> had characterized efforts to broker a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians as “an apartheid system with ghettos for Palestinians.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, of course.
> 
> Watch this space.
Click to expand...


Those entitled Arab-Islamist welfare fraud recipients view anything less than a _Judenrein _mini_-_caliphate as unacceptable.


----------



## Hollie

“Angry Mahmoud” was off on another rant recently, confirming his commitment to reward Islamic terrorism. 

Ya’ Alla, homie. Let’s hope this prompts more of the western world to cut of funding of the Islamic terrorist franchises in both Gaza and your personal slush fund. 



WATCH: ‘Paying terrorists is Palestinians’ top priority,’ brags Abbas

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said in a speech aired last week on Palestinian Authority TV that he remains unfazed by cuts in tax revenues initiated by Israel based on the PA’s decision to continue paying salaries to terrorists and the families of those killed committing terror-related crimes.

Abbas was speaking in front of a delegation of U.S. congressmen and the left-wing American organization, J-Street.

In front of this crowd, Abbas doubled down on the PA’s commitment to pay the families of “martyrs” and “prisoners,” declaring “[If] the PA had no more than 20-30 million Shekels,” which he said is how much the monthly stipends to the families cost “it would still pay that sum to [prisoners and martyrs’ families].”


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinian Propaganda “Own Goal”: A Map From National Geographic in 1947*

Anti-Israel propaganda Facebook page Quds News Network has posted this “Map of Palestine from a 1947 issue of National Geographic,” presumably in a bid to show Israel did not exist at the time.





Once again, it is a huge own goal.

In order to understand why, look at the top left hand corner of the map.





It is a map of the Partition Plan – the plan that would have led to a palestinian state had the Arabs accepted it (like the Jews did), instead of rejecting it, engaging in terrorism, and threatening a Holy War. That’s why it appears in a 1947 edition of National Geographic to begin with.

No-one is discounting the fact that there was no state of Israel immediately prior to its (re)establishment in 1948 – this is a ‘strawman’ argument.

Yet again, palestinian propaganda fails; and it will inevitably continue to do, since they don’t have truth on their side.

Palestinian Propaganda 'Own Goal': A Map From National Geographic in 1947


----------



## Sixties Fan

Does anyone seriously believe, for example, that Hamas would abandon its religiously-inspired commitment to conduct a jihad to drive the Jews from the Middle East if Israel treated the group more nicely? Wasn’t it nice that Israel withdrew every Jew and soldier from Gaza? And what was the response? Hamas bombarded Israel with rockets. In doing so, they demonstrated that the idea that Israel could trade land for peace was a myth.

We also hear how Palestinian human rights are trampled by the Israelis, but it is not Israel that muzzles Palestinian journalists, locks up proponents of peace, looks the other way while women are murdered in “honor killings,” persecutes gays, and denies Palestinians the civil rights that many Americans take for granted. No, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are solely responsible for those deprivations, and yet the Palestinians’ fan club doesn’t care.

While foreigners call for boycotts of Israel and condemn its treatment of Palestinians, the Arabs in the West Bank and inside Israel vote with their feet. More than 100,000 Palestinians are grateful to have the opportunity to work in Israel; thousands are also employed in the settlements derided by critics. These Palestinians care more about putting food on their families’ tables than ideology and the empty slogans of the BDS movement.

Palestinians with Israeli citizenship react with horror and disdain at any suggestion that they should move to a Palestinian state. Having experienced the freedom and benefits of living in a democracy, they have no desire to give that up to become subjects of the corrupt autocrats in Ramallah and Gaza. I wonder how many members of the Palestinian fan club would give up their lives to live under Palestinian rule.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Fan Club


----------



## Sixties Fan

Instead of marching Palestinians towards democracy, the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas have chosen the model of totalitarianism as a way of governing their people. The pro-Abbas demonstrations organized by Fatah in the West Bank are reminiscent of dictatorships in the Arab world that send their loyalists to the streets to voice support for the ruler. The Hamas-sponsored anti-Abbas demonstrations in the Gaza Strip will not solve any of the crises facing the Palestinians there. These protests are Hamas's way of distracting attention from its failure to improve the living conditions of the people living under its repressive regime.


The only way for the Palestinians to move forward is by protesting against their failed leaders in the PA and Hamas. Many Palestinians, however, are afraid to speak out against their rulers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Why would any Palestinian speak out against Abbas when the PA arrests and harasses those who even dare to post critical remarks on Facebook? Why would any Palestinian in the Gaza Strip criticize Hamas when he or she knows that this would endanger their lives?


On April 9, Israelis will again celebrate democracy by voting in a free and democratic election. The Palestinians, meanwhile, will mark another year of dictatorship and failed leadership, and will continue to dream about heading to any ballot box at all.

(full article online)

Palestinians: Marching Backwards as Israel Prepares for Elections


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ There definitely needs to be a population swap between Gaza and the PA  ]

Fatah: Hamas brutally torturing our men in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Palestinian Propaganda “Own Goal”: A Map From National Geographic in 1947*
> 
> Anti-Israel propaganda Facebook page Quds News Network has posted this “Map of Palestine from a 1947 issue of National Geographic,” presumably in a bid to show Israel did not exist at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, it is a huge own goal.
> 
> In order to understand why, look at the top left hand corner of the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a map of the Partition Plan – the plan that would have led to a palestinian state had the Arabs accepted it (like the Jews did), instead of rejecting it, engaging in terrorism, and threatening a Holy War. That’s why it appears in a 1947 edition of National Geographic to begin with.
> 
> No-one is discounting the fact that there was no state of Israel immediately prior to its (re)establishment in 1948 – this is a ‘strawman’ argument.
> 
> Yet again, palestinian propaganda fails; and it will inevitably continue to do, since they don’t have truth on their side.
> 
> Palestinian Propaganda 'Own Goal': A Map From National Geographic in 1947


It was Palestine with or without the partition plan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Propaganda “Own Goal”: A Map From National Geographic in 1947*
> 
> Anti-Israel propaganda Facebook page Quds News Network has posted this “Map of Palestine from a 1947 issue of National Geographic,” presumably in a bid to show Israel did not exist at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, it is a huge own goal.
> 
> In order to understand why, look at the top left hand corner of the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a map of the Partition Plan – the plan that would have led to a palestinian state had the Arabs accepted it (like the Jews did), instead of rejecting it, engaging in terrorism, and threatening a Holy War. That’s why it appears in a 1947 edition of National Geographic to begin with.
> 
> No-one is discounting the fact that there was no state of Israel immediately prior to its (re)establishment in 1948 – this is a ‘strawman’ argument.
> 
> Yet again, palestinian propaganda fails; and it will inevitably continue to do, since they don’t have truth on their side.
> 
> Palestinian Propaganda 'Own Goal': A Map From National Geographic in 1947
> 
> 
> 
> It was Palestine with or without the partition plan.
Click to expand...

Palestine was the name given by the Romans to the region where the Jewish homeland was in order to humiliate them.

Palestine Mandate was the name given by the British to humiliate and steal the ancient Jewish homeland for the Hashemites (78%) and themselves (22%).

The indigenous Jews could do nothing about the British stealing 78% and giving it to the Arab Muslim foreigners, but they did something to keep the 22% of their ancient homeland.

Jews accepted any part of their ancient homeland.

The invading, colonizing Arabs refused to give the Jews any land.

Partition, Shmartition, then, now and forever.

The 3 NOs, endless NO to any Jewish sovereignty over their own ancient homeland.

WHY ?

Because Muslims are masters of the Jews.

Let us never, ever ......forget that


----------



## Mindful

*Mandatory Palestine * (indicates "Eretz Yisrael", Land of Israel) was a geopolitical entity established between 1920 and 1923 in the region of Palestine as part of the Partition of the Ottoman Empire under the terms of the British Mandate for Palestine.


Wiki.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Propaganda “Own Goal”: A Map From National Geographic in 1947*
> 
> Anti-Israel propaganda Facebook page Quds News Network has posted this “Map of Palestine from a 1947 issue of National Geographic,” presumably in a bid to show Israel did not exist at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, it is a huge own goal.
> 
> In order to understand why, look at the top left hand corner of the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a map of the Partition Plan – the plan that would have led to a palestinian state had the Arabs accepted it (like the Jews did), instead of rejecting it, engaging in terrorism, and threatening a Holy War. That’s why it appears in a 1947 edition of National Geographic to begin with.
> 
> No-one is discounting the fact that there was no state of Israel immediately prior to its (re)establishment in 1948 – this is a ‘strawman’ argument.
> 
> Yet again, palestinian propaganda fails; and it will inevitably continue to do, since they don’t have truth on their side.
> 
> Palestinian Propaganda 'Own Goal': A Map From National Geographic in 1947
> 
> 
> 
> It was Palestine with or without the partition plan.
Click to expand...


You can continue to be befuddled, however, the geographic area was formerly a sanjak of the Ottoman Empire.


----------



## Hollie

The wondrous Islamist social order.


----------



## Hollie

*New Palestinian museum opens without exhibits*

18 May 2016

Palestinian museum opens minus exhibits

The museum's chairman said he did not consider its unusual opening to be embarrassing.  

*((((((( Record Scratch Sound Effect )))))*


----------



## Hollie

Would someone please shed a tear for Mahmoud?


----------



## Hollie

Aww, those _Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians™️
_
Would more welfare fraud money ease their suffering?
_





_


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Terrorist International Airlines, Gaza hub.


----------



## Hollie

Recent graduate of the Islamic Terrorist Training Academy.

He’s applying for an internship at the Abbas School of Money Laundering.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

In rare visit to Iraq, Abbas offers Palestinian ‘expertise’ to help rebuilding


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, Abbas and his cronies, living in castles and driving in luxury vehicles, do not have to worry about how to put food on the table for their kids, nor how to warm their homes in the winter. From the start, they have been siphoning off humanitarian funds into their own coffers before allowing for some of it to be used for providing services and building infrastructure for their people. Yasser Arafat was a great role model in this regard.

I imagine that just before the PA comes crashing down on the heads of the hapless brainwashed Palestinian Arab people, Abbas et al will skedaddle out of the PA, taking their families to live out the rest of their lives in safety and with obscene wealth. Joining Arafat’s wife and daughter in Europe, perhaps?

My source ends his report by saying:

People here are fed up with these scumbags, this Tunisian mafia that is oppressing the people and stealing all the aid.

And my question to those who continue to provide “humanitarian aid” to the Palestinian Authority and sponsor all kinds of so-called “pro-Palestinian” events around the globe is this: Do you really hate Jews so much that you prefer to vilify us and blame us for “oppressing” the Palestinians even though, by doing so, you are diverting attention from what is really happening there? By focusing on the Jews as evil incarnate, you are, yourselves, destroying the Palestinian Arab population and absolutely ruining the chances for kids growing up there now to have a normal life. Is Jew-hate so overwhelming that it blinds you to the true humanitarian disaster that the PA is bringing down upon its own people?

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Residents Fed Up With Their Ruling Tunisian Mafia | Israel Diaries


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians" sure do have a rather OCD-like obsession with all things Jewish.    
*


Holocaust explained by Fatah: *
*Jews deserved to be killed because of “who they are”* 

Holocaust explained by Fatah: Jews deserved to be killed because of “who they are” - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah justifies murder of Jews in the Holocaust with story of alleged Jewish selfishness and evil*






By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 

On Facebook, Fatah posted the three photos above from World War II together with a story it presented as authentic. According to the version posted by Fatah, Jews willingly and eagerly agreed to bury Russian civilians alive in order to save their own lives. Seeing this, a Nazi soldier proclaimed to the Russians: 

"*I just wanted you to know who the Jews are and why we are killing them!*"
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Feb. 27, 2019]


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinians Fly Nazi Flag Over Main Highway*
Arab village of Beit Umar located just north of spot where murdered Israeli teens' bodies discovered; swastika regularly flown there.


Palestinians Fly Nazi Flag Over Main Highway






Palestinian Arabs hold Nazi flag at Netzarim
Reuters
For at least the third time in recent months, Arab residents of Beit Umar have flown a Nazi flag over the village facing the main highway, angering Jewish residents.

The choice of timing is all the more appalling, coming less than a week after the bodies of three Israeli teens were discovered in Hevron.

Beit Umar itself is located between Hevron and Jewish town of Alon Shvut in the Gush Etzion region - it was outside Alon Shvut that the boys were abducted by their killers as they were on their way home. It lies just north of the Arab village of Halhoul, where the murdered teens' bodies were discovered last Tuesday by security forces.



The video was filmed on Sunday, and the flag appears to have been flown to coincide with countrywide riots by Arab extremists over the murder of Arab teen Mohammed Abu-Khder, who was killed in a suspected "revenge attack" for the murder of Eyal Yifrah, Gilad Sha'ar and Naftali Frenkel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-poli...gaza-kindergartens-teach-jihad-children-youth


----------



## Sixties Fan

People like Saeb Erekat and Hanan Ashrawi love to tell their Western audiences that it is Jews, not Muslims, who are trying to turn this into a religious conflict.

Um, no.

On Sunday, the Association of Palestinian Scholars issued a fatwa - a Muslim religious legal ruling - entitled "The ruling of Islam concerning normalization with the Zionist enemy occupying the land of Palestine."

Not surprisingly, they come out against it.

The fatwa said that "normalization is one of the most dangerous initiatives, and a threat to the security of the nation and a corruption of its faith."

"Peace and normalization means the empowerment of Jews in the land of the Muslims, and over the necks of the Muslim people, [which is forbidden on] this or any Islamic land," the document continued.

"Reconciliation and normalization with the Zionist enemy means surrender to the infidels and their affairs, and the loss of religion and Islamic lands. "

It is notable that the scholars are referring to Jews here as "infidels" and not "dhimmis." The usual apologia that Muslims respect Jews as people of the book is absent in this document.

The fatwa notes that a long term truce is possible with infidels if it serves the larger Muslim interest, but treating them a regular people is always forbidden.

(full article online)

Palestinian scholars issue a fatwa against "normalization" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

But a look at Google search trends on the Palestinian problem in the Arab world casts this claim into serious doubt.

The Palestinian problem, like most other political issues, is a function of personal involvement and geographical proximity to the crisis area. This means that it is the Palestinians themselves who search the conflict most frequently, followed by nearby countries, and thinning out the farther the searchers are from “Palestine.”

So if one plots searches for “Palestinian resistance” (in Arabic, al-muqawama al-Filastiniyya), searches relative to the size of population in “Palestine” are over four times more numerous than among Arabs in Israel, 10 times more than in nearby Jordan, 40 times more than in Syria, and nearly 400 times more than in distant Morocco.

(full article online)

Arab Support for ‘Palestine’ Is Dependent on the Use of Religion


----------



## Hollie

*As Arabs Riot Across Israel, Swastika Flag Seen Hoisted Above Palestinian Town (VIDEO)*

As Arabs Riot Across Israel, Swastika Flag Seen Hoisted Above Palestinian Town (VIDEO)




The swatika flag once again hosited above the Palestinian town of Beit Ummar. Photo: Screenshot/Tazpit.

As dozens of Gaza rockets were launched into Israel on Sunday and Arabs rioted across the country,partially in response to the slaying of an Arab teen allegedly by Jewish extremists, a Nazi flag bearing a large black swastika was seen waving above the Palestinian village of Beit Ummar.

The flag, which was clearly visible to drivers on Israel’s north-south Highway 60 intercity road, was captured on camera by Abraham Weiss of the Israel based Tazpit News Agency.

Reacting to the flag, a resident of nearby Carmei Tsur said, “The Arabs are no longer fearful of hiding their intentions. To kill, destroy and uproot the Jewish People.” Local residents have notified the Israel Defense Forces of the flag’s presence, according to Tazpit.

The town of 13,000 is located northwest of Hebron, relatively close to where the bodies of three Israeli teens were discovered in a shallow grave last Monday. The youths — Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frankel and Eyal Yifrah — were kidnapped on June 12 and murdered, allegedly by Hamas terrorists.

It is not the first time the Nazi banner has been hoisted up over the town.

In May 2013, the IDF Civil Administration ordered the Palestinian Electrical Company to remove a swastika flag that had been hung on one Beit Ummar’s electric wires, Israel Hayom reported. The offending flag, also first spotted by Tazpit, was subsequently removed.

In the latest video, it appears the flag is not connected to an electrical wire but is flying from a pole embedded in the ground.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> *As Arabs Riot Across Israel, Swastika Flag Seen Hoisted Above Palestinian Town (VIDEO)*
> 
> As Arabs Riot Across Israel, Swastika Flag Seen Hoisted Above Palestinian Town (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The swatika flag once again hosited above the Palestinian town of Beit Ummar. Photo: Screenshot/Tazpit.
> 
> As dozens of Gaza rockets were launched into Israel on Sunday and Arabs rioted across the country,partially in response to the slaying of an Arab teen allegedly by Jewish extremists, a Nazi flag bearing a large black swastika was seen waving above the Palestinian village of Beit Ummar.
> 
> The flag, which was clearly visible to drivers on Israel’s north-south Highway 60 intercity road, was captured on camera by Abraham Weiss of the Israel based Tazpit News Agency.
> 
> Reacting to the flag, a resident of nearby Carmei Tsur said, “The Arabs are no longer fearful of hiding their intentions. To kill, destroy and uproot the Jewish People.” Local residents have notified the Israel Defense Forces of the flag’s presence, according to Tazpit.
> 
> The town of 13,000 is located northwest of Hebron, relatively close to where the bodies of three Israeli teens were discovered in a shallow grave last Monday. The youths — Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frankel and Eyal Yifrah — were kidnapped on June 12 and murdered, allegedly by Hamas terrorists.
> 
> It is not the first time the Nazi banner has been hoisted up over the town.
> 
> In May 2013, the IDF Civil Administration ordered the Palestinian Electrical Company to remove a swastika flag that had been hung on one Beit Ummar’s electric wires, Israel Hayom reported. The offending flag, also first spotted by Tazpit, was subsequently removed.
> 
> In the latest video, it appears the flag is not connected to an electrical wire but is flying from a pole embedded in the ground.



When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *As Arabs Riot Across Israel, Swastika Flag Seen Hoisted Above Palestinian Town (VIDEO)*
> 
> As Arabs Riot Across Israel, Swastika Flag Seen Hoisted Above Palestinian Town (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The swatika flag once again hosited above the Palestinian town of Beit Ummar. Photo: Screenshot/Tazpit.
> 
> As dozens of Gaza rockets were launched into Israel on Sunday and Arabs rioted across the country,partially in response to the slaying of an Arab teen allegedly by Jewish extremists, a Nazi flag bearing a large black swastika was seen waving above the Palestinian village of Beit Ummar.
> 
> The flag, which was clearly visible to drivers on Israel’s north-south Highway 60 intercity road, was captured on camera by Abraham Weiss of the Israel based Tazpit News Agency.
> 
> Reacting to the flag, a resident of nearby Carmei Tsur said, “The Arabs are no longer fearful of hiding their intentions. To kill, destroy and uproot the Jewish People.” Local residents have notified the Israel Defense Forces of the flag’s presence, according to Tazpit.
> 
> The town of 13,000 is located northwest of Hebron, relatively close to where the bodies of three Israeli teens were discovered in a shallow grave last Monday. The youths — Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frankel and Eyal Yifrah — were kidnapped on June 12 and murdered, allegedly by Hamas terrorists.
> 
> It is not the first time the Nazi banner has been hoisted up over the town.
> 
> In May 2013, the IDF Civil Administration ordered the Palestinian Electrical Company to remove a swastika flag that had been hung on one Beit Ummar’s electric wires, Israel Hayom reported. The offending flag, also first spotted by Tazpit, was subsequently removed.
> 
> In the latest video, it appears the flag is not connected to an electrical wire but is flying from a pole embedded in the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Click to expand...


And Arabs-Moslems continually show us who they are.


IDF: Terror cell carried out two attacks in one night

*IDF: Terror cell carried*. *out two attacks in one night*

Terrorists' night of mayhem started with firebombings - ended with ramming attack. 'Why didn't army shoot them during first attack?

The terrorist cell responsible for a pre-dawn ramming attack early Monday morning was also responsible for firebomb attacks hours earlier, an IDF spokesperson said Monday


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The art of blackmail ]

Hamas is again demanding money for salaries for its employees in Gaza at a sum of $20 million as a condition for restoring calm along the Gaza border, _Kan 11 News_ reported on Monday.

According to the report, a source in Hamas said that "Israel violated the original ceasefire and if it wants to return to it, the salaries of the clerks must be renewed. At the moment there is no calm, you violated it and therefore the incendiary and explosive balloons returned.”

(full article online)

Hamas again demands money from Israel


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ The art of blackmail ]
> 
> Hamas is again demanding money for salaries for its employees in Gaza at a sum of $20 million as a condition for restoring calm along the Gaza border, _Kan 11 News_ reported on Monday.
> 
> According to the report, a source in Hamas said that "Israel violated the original ceasefire and if it wants to return to it, the salaries of the clerks must be renewed. At the moment there is no calm, you violated it and therefore the incendiary and explosive balloons returned.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas again demands money from Israel



Ugh.  Enough.  Enough with the temper-tantruming.  If Hamas wants to be treated like a viable government, they need to start acting like one.  If they choose not to, tell me, why would the international community continue to fund a terrorist organization?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ The art of blackmail ]
> 
> Hamas is again demanding money for salaries for its employees in Gaza at a sum of $20 million as a condition for restoring calm along the Gaza border, _Kan 11 News_ reported on Monday.
> 
> According to the report, a source in Hamas said that "Israel violated the original ceasefire and if it wants to return to it, the salaries of the clerks must be renewed. At the moment there is no calm, you violated it and therefore the incendiary and explosive balloons returned.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas again demands money from Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh.  Enough.  Enough with the temper-tantruming.  If Hamas wants to be treated like a viable government, they need to start acting like one.  If they choose not to, tell me, why would the international community continue to fund a terrorist organization?
Click to expand...

To destroy Israel.  Nothing else is on the table.


----------



## Hollie

Think "Peace Partners" and "Roadmaps" to nowhere with a politico-religious ideology that has remained static since the 7th century. 


*Palestinians: No Peace or Reconciliation with the 'Infidels'*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
March 4, 2019 at 5:00 am

Palestinians: No Peace or Reconciliation with the 'Infidels'*

The ruling by the Palestinian Scholars' Association is also aimed at sending a message to the US administration that the Palestinians and the Muslims will have nothing to do with the "Deal of the Century." Moreover, it serves as a reminder that even if some Arabs do sign peace treaties with Israel, there will always be those Muslims who will denounce them as "traitors" and accuse them of acting against the Koran and the rulings of Islam.


Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, is acutely aware that Muslims will condemn him -- and perhaps issue a _fatwa_ calling for his death -- if he ever dares to make peace with the Jews. That suspicion might explain his recent comment during a visit to Egypt, when he was reported to have said that he does not intend to end his life as a traitor by making concessions to Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

On February 23rd, 2019, a 15 year-old Palestinian, Yusef al-Daya, was shot in the chest at a weekly event called the March of Return. The event is held every Friday at the Gaza border. Al-Daya was rushed to a local hospital where he was resuscitated but a short time later, succumbed to his wound.

Prominent media outlets such as Reuters stated; “Israeli troops shot dead a Palestinian teen.” The article makes no mention of important facts about al-Daya and what he was doing at the security fence.


This is a common framing of the “protests” at the security fence, which portray the participants as civilians and highlight people under 18 (“children”) killed. The death received considerable media attention, and came not long before the UN Human Rights Council issued a reportcondemning Israeli killings of “civilians” at the Gaza security fence.

Al-Daya wasn’t just a civilian protesting, he was a member of the Palestinian Mujahideen Movement who have a military wing called Mujahideen Brigades.

(full article online)

What media ignored: 15-year-old killed at Gaza border was active military member of terror groups


----------



## Sixties Fan

The taxes that Israel collects and transfers to the PA amount to, on average, 670 million shekels per month. Cumulatively, they account for almost 50% of the PA’s annual budget.

Abbas’s response was again quick to come. If Israel dares to implement the law, he will refuse to accept any of the remaining taxes. 
Without these funds, the PA will no longer be able to provide essential services to the innocent Palestinian population or pay the tens of thousands of its law-abiding civil servants. 

As if positively choosing to deprive the law-abiding Palestinians of hundreds of millions of shekels a year while instead squandering it to pay financial rewards to terrorists was not enough, Abbas is now positively choosing to inflict financial ruin on all the Palestinians. The PA has announced that public employees and employees in the private sector will have to take pay cuts in order for the PA to continue paying terrorist murderers in full.

In the absence of any other clear legacy, Abbas will certainly be remembered as the PA chairman who paid the most in financial rewards to terrorists, at the expense of and to the detriment of the millions of law-abiding and productive Palestinians. 

(full article online)

Abbas’s legacy


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Has Sarsour stopped calling herself "White" ? ]

Sarsour is saying that Nancy Pelosi is "upholding the patriarchy" and "doing the work of white men." Apparently, fighting antisemitism is something only racist white men do.

And doesn't Sarsour, who wears a hijab and defends Islam at every opportunity, doing the bidding of Muslim men who say that she cannot remove it without being in danger of being raped by sex-crazed men who cannot control themselves at the sight of her hair?

If Sarsour is so concerned about the patriarchy, why does she defend a misogynist religion?

Moreover, when House Resolution 569 was introduced in December 2016 "Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States," I can find no record of Sarsour speaking out against it because it didn't include other forms of bigotry besides that against Muslims. But a resolution against antisemitism is considered, and she is so upset that it is only on a single kind of hate!

(full article online)

Hypocrite Linda Sarsour is against Congressional resolution condemning antisemitism (ElderToons) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Political Propaganda in Violation of Professional Standards*

The content of the Clinic’s sloppy and typo-laden submission is also highly disturbing and reflects the partnership with a PFLP-linked NGO. It is replete with egregiously false statements, gross distortions of the law and the facts, and the whitewashing of terror groups including Hamas. This publication is propaganda and not in accordance with professional standards for legal education or conduct required by the New York State Bar.

 The following is just a small selection of the more outrageous statements made in the submission:

(full article online)

Letter to CUNYLaw Regarding its Joint UN Submission with Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCI-P)


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Muslim activist in Australia named Sam Ekermawi who has filed numerous racial vilification and discrimination complaints against prominent Australians was found guilty on Friday of assaulting pro-Israel activist Avi Yemini during a scuffle outside a courthouse in Sydney in June 2018.

In the incident, Ekermawi, a Palestinian immigrant to Australia, was attending a hearing involving a complaint he filed with the Australian Human Rights Commission, which investigates alleged infringements of anti-discrimination legislation, against TV news presented Sonia Kruger.


(full article online)

Muslim activist guilty of assaulting pro-Israel activist in Australia


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Down and down into the depths ......the Arab Muslims go ]

Fatah posts story claiming Jews were willing to bury Russians alive in WWII


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *Political Propaganda in Violation of Professional Standards*
> 
> The content of the Clinic’s sloppy and typo-laden submission is also highly disturbing and reflects the partnership with a PFLP-linked NGO. It is replete with egregiously false statements, gross distortions of the law and the facts, and the whitewashing of terror groups including Hamas. This publication is propaganda and not in accordance with professional standards for legal education or conduct required by the New York State Bar.
> 
> The following is just a small selection of the more outrageous statements made in the submission:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Letter to CUNYLaw Regarding its Joint UN Submission with Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCI-P)


Exercise in Israeli desperation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Political Propaganda in Violation of Professional Standards*
> 
> The content of the Clinic’s sloppy and typo-laden submission is also highly disturbing and reflects the partnership with a PFLP-linked NGO. It is replete with egregiously false statements, gross distortions of the law and the facts, and the whitewashing of terror groups including Hamas. This publication is propaganda and not in accordance with professional standards for legal education or conduct required by the New York State Bar.
> 
> The following is just a small selection of the more outrageous statements made in the submission:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Letter to CUNYLaw Regarding its Joint UN Submission with Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCI-P)
> 
> 
> 
> Exercise in Israeli desperation.
Click to expand...

Another one of your posts where you exercise utter intent in delegitimizing Israel, at any cost.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I couldn't find the report from the AOHR site. I found nothing at the WHO site that said that there was any evidence of health risks from RF radiation at any but the most extreme levels, although it pointed to some recommended standards.

The story goes on to say that Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons have appealed to the international community to dismantle these devices and prevent their use, and they are certain that the radiation issued by these devices affect their health. They claim headaches and ear pain, saying it feels like their brains are in a microwave.

If the prisoners were so concerned about their health, of course, they merely need to stop smuggling in cell phones so Israel wouldn't need jammers. Not to mention that there are equally unreliable reports that cell phone use itself is dangerous.

Somehow that solution seems too extreme to them, and their worries about their health do no extend to actually stopping using the equipment that is causing them this alleged pain.

(full article online)

Palestinian prisoners want Israel to stop jamming their cell phones - claiming health concerns! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the article makes it clear that Palestinians in Lebanon have it really, really bad, to the AOHR the real problem is that when they leave they may no longer be pawns to pressure Israel for "return."

Which is an amazing stance for a supposedly human rights group to take.

Somehow, they are claiming that the exodus of Palestinians from Lebanon, which has been going on for decades, is connected with Trump's "Deal of the Century."

If the US was really behind finding new homes for oppressed Lebanese Palestinians, it should win a Nobel Peace Prize!*

A supposedly human rights group is upset that Palestinians are leaving a hellhole to find a better life elsewhere, The entire reason is because the fewer Palestinians in UNRWA camps, the less of a problem they are for Israel.

It is a breathtakingly cynical thought process that prefers that their human rights be abused daily just for the tiny extra amount of symbolism that comes from pointing to their miserable conditions and pretending that it is Israel's fault.

(full article online)

Arab "human rights" group prefers Palestinians stay in Lebanese open-air prisons to emigrating ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli Arab in this video Abdul Abed El Rachman talks about how the Left uses Arabs for their own benefit. They want to see the humiliated and downtrodden Arab so that the Arab will ask for their help. And then the Left uses that image for the public and blames Israel. But Abul tells the truth about Israel. Israel is a beautiful and wonderful country. He has been treated well his whole life. There is no discrimination, no apartheid. The public is wrong about Israel. The Left is wrong. And he wants everyone to know. Abdul even calls the Left an “occupier,” which is especially significant given that the world calls Israel the occupiers!

(full article online)

Israeli Arab reveals the Left's biggest secret


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

This is a frivolous complaint.   



Sixties Fan said:


> I couldn't find the report from the AOHR site. I found nothing at the WHO site that said that there was any evidence of health risks from RF radiation at any but the most extreme levels, although it pointed to some recommended standards.
> 
> The story goes on to say that Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons have appealed to the international community to dismantle these devices and prevent their use, and they are certain that the radiation issued by these devices affect their health. They claim headaches and ear pain, saying it feels like their brains are in a microwave.
> 
> If the prisoners were so concerned about their health, of course, they merely need to stop smuggling in cell phones so Israel wouldn't need jammers. Not to mention that there are equally unreliable reports that cell phone use itself is dangerous.
> 
> Somehow that solution seems too extreme to them, and their worries about their health do no extend to actually stopping using the equipment that is causing them this alleged pain.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian prisoners want Israel to stop jamming their cell phones - claiming health concerns! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

These are standard security measure used by both High-Level Legal and Contract Negotiation Strategy Teams, Commercial and Industrial Research Facilities, Special Access Programs, Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities, as well as detention activities.  But these are not the only radiators used.  

There is a whole host of Electronic Surveillance and Countermeasures systems and detection devices, as well as a family of devices that are used to remotely active hostile electronic mechanisms.  Cell Phone Jammers one of many devices in the family of Meaconing, Electronic Intruders, and Mimicking Devices. 

Bottom Line:  This is just a prisoner strategy in an attempt to get around the communications security measures and the prevention of remote activation devices.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

General court rejects Gaza rulers’ arguments ‘in their totality,’ dealing terrorist organization the latest in a series of legal blows

(full article online)

EU court upholds freeze on Hamas funds, keeps group on terror blacklist


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite the constant refrain from the J Street and the international news media about the so-called “Israeli occupation of the Palestinians,” the reality is that 98 percent of the Palestinian Arabs live under Palestinian rule. Therefore, there are no settlers or soldiers in the towns where Daraj and Anqawi live. When they decided they wanted to murder some Jews, they had to leave their villages and drive some distance.

Together with a third friend (whose name has not yet been released), they drove to an area where Israeli soldiers sometimes patrol for terrorists. No doubt the trio couldn’t believe their eyes when they spotted an Israeli vehicle that had broken down and several soldiers trying to help its occupants.

Normal people who see a car broken down by the side of the road will stop to lend a helping hand—or at least call 911. But not if the people who broke down are Jews and the passersby are Palestinian Arabs on a Jew-hunt.

Daraj, Anqawi and their friend probably couldn’t believe their luck. Unsuspecting Jews, sitting ducks, easy targets. And Daraj had the perfect weapon at his command—his car. He turned the steering wheel sharply and drove straight into the Jews, seriously injuring two of them.

But this isn’t 1939. It’s 2019—these Jews fight back. The soldiers fired at the attackers, killing Daraj and Anqawi, and wounding their friend. In the terrorists’ car, the Israelis found several unexploded firebombs. The captured terrorist confessed that before the car-ramming attack, he and his buddies had driven over to the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv road known as Route 443 and tried to set some Jews on fire there.

That’s what happens when a firebomb, also called a Molotov cocktail, strikes an automobile. It engulfs the vehicle, the driver and the passengers in a hellish inferno. That was the terrorists’ intention.

Despite the discovery of the firebombs and the terrorist’s admission, the mayor of a nearby P.A. village immediately told reporters that they were not terrorists at all. Mayor Khaldoun Al Seek, of the village of Kafr Ni’ma, announced that the collision was “a road accident, not a ramming attack.” The P.A. Foreign Ministry issued a statement accusing Israel of carrying out “a brutal execution” of two innocent Palestinians.

(full article online)

Looking for Jews to kill


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza woman slams Arab world for shunning peace


----------



## Hollie

It's rather strikng that women in the islamist world suffer oppression, limited rights, discrimination and the effects of a socio-religious ideology that requires they be kept in Shame-Sacks.

There are a few exceptions.


*PA TV uses International Women's Day 
to glorify female terrorists* 

PA TV uses International Women’s Day to glorify female terrorists - PMW Bulletins

By Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch
Read on our website here 

To mark International Women's Day, PA TV broadcast an interview with the Director of the Palestinian Women's Union in Gaza, Amal Hamad. 

Instead of discussing the achievements of Palestinian women or the inequality that they suffer in Palestinian society, Hamad chose to highlight that Palestinian women have played an important role in violence and terror, what she calls the "Palestinian national struggle". 

"We have had female Martyrs, wounded, and prisoners... The women were the first to take part in the battle. That is why we also have female Martyrs - Shadia Abu Ghazaleh (i.e., terrorist, prepared bombs for terror attacks), Dalal Mughrabi (i.e., terrorist who led murder of 37, 12 of them children), Wafa Idris (i.e., first female suicide bomber, murdered 1), Ayyat Al-Akhras (i.e., youngest female suicide bomber, murdered 2), Darin Abu Aisheh (i.e., female suicide bomber, wounded 3)..."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas encourages terrorist's family


----------



## Hollie

Anybody have some spare bitcoins they can send to Hamas?

Oh woe is Hamas. The worlds second richest islsmic terrorist franchise has woes. 




*Hamas calls for supporters to send bitcoins*
Ezzedine al-Qasaam Brigades launches appeal for support using digital currency amid financial woes.

Hamas calls for supporters to send bitcoins

30 Jan 2019





Hamas has accused Israel of seeking to cut off its financial sources [Khalil Hamra/AP]
The armed wing of the Hamas group, which has fought three wars with Israel and faces financial isolation, called on supporters to send funds using bitcoins.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA TV uses International Women’s Day to glorify female terrorists - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Nothing like the sound of an F-15 overhead to calm the islamic beast.
*

IDF Bombs Hamas Naval Base After *
*Projectile Launched at Israel*


IDF Bombs Hamas Naval Base After Projectile Launched at Israel | Breitbart



_




AP/Ariel Schalit
DEBORAH DANAN 8 Mar 2019 
*TEL AVIV – The IDF bombed a Hamas naval post in the Gaza Strip overnight between Wednesday and Thursday after a mortar shell was launched from the area hours earlier, the army said. *_


----------



## Sixties Fan

PLO begs nations not to deal with US embassy in Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Swift and certain retaliation will help islamic terrorists understand that there are consequences to the gee-had.



20:30 07.03.2019
TEL AVIV (Sputnik) - An Israeli tank struck on Thursday a post belonging to Hamas in the Gaza Strip in response to shelling against Israel from the territory of the enclave, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) press service said.

"Moments ago, shots were fired from Gaza at an IDF position. In response, an IDF tank struck a Hamas military post in the northern Gaza Strip," the IDF press service said.

Israeli Tank Hits Hamas Position in Response to Shelling From Gaza Strip - IDF


----------



## Hollie

Those "Poor, Oppresed Pal'istanians" seemingy have endless welfare fraud dollars to spend on burrowing underground. 

Money for electricity and modern plumbing? Not so much. 



EGYPT DESTROYS NINE TUNNELS NEAR GAZA BORDER.

_Egypt destroys nine tunnels near Gaza border

Egypt destroyed nine tunnels that have opening along the Gaza border, Channel 13 reported on Friday

_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Denouncing ‘Racist Israel and Its Lobbies,’ PLO Rejects Internationally-Accepted Definition of Antisemitism


----------



## Hollie

Isn’t that a shame. Two islsmic terrorist franchises are having a difficult time playing nicely. One would hope that with guns and ammunition, these lovely folks can settle their differences in an appropriately Islamic way.


*PA pulls staff from Rafah crossing after 'abuse' of its members.*

*PA pulls staff from Rafah crossing after 'abuse' of its members
*
Palestinian Authority cites 'arrest and abuse' of its members as reasons to withdraw staff - a move slammed by Hamas.

by Maram Humaid
7 Jan 2019







The PA accused Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip, of "arresting and abusing" its employees and obstructing "the work of our crew".


----------



## Hollie

Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas. 



*Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *

Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza

While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.

Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17

And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.


The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.


Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.






Protests on the Gaza border


----------



## Hollie

Now this is where it gets interesting. If the Shia Iranian Mullocrats play this correctly, they will want to pit the Sunni Islamic Jihad franchise against the Sunni Islamic terrorists in Hamas. That will not only establish a deadly rivalry between the two Sunni Islamic terrorist franchises but will also stack the wider Sunni world against those two Islamic terrorist encampments.

That would be a be a big, strategic win for the Shia.



Iran plays its “Palestinian Islamic Jihad” card in Tehran meetings

* Iran plays its “Palestinian Islamic Jihad” card in Tehran meetings *

* Tehran considers Nakhala and a visit with his group an important event, even though PIJ is a relatively minor player on the Palestinian scene. *​


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 08-Mar-19: Ahed Tamimi plans to visit Iran: Reflections from an Iranian


----------



## Hollie

How nice that an Islamic Terrorist franchise in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan has its loyalties assigned to the Iranian Mullocrats. 

That will only serve to enrage the Sunni Arab world. 


*New Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader ‘will seek to satisfy Iran*

*New Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader ‘will seek to satisfy Iran’
*
Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the second-largest armed terrorist faction in the Gaza Strip, announced at the end of last month that it had a new leader.

Ziad al-Nakhleh, formerly the deputy secretary-general of the Iranian-backed Palestinian group, was named as the successor to outgoing leader Ramadan Shalah.

Like Shalah, Nakhleh resides abroad, traveling back and forth between Syria and Iran. He will be PIJ’s third leader. Fathi Shiqaqi, the group’s founding leader, was reportedly killed by Israel in Malta in 1995. After that assassination, Nakhleh was appointed as PIJ’s deputy leader and remained in that position until becoming its head in recent weeks.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since the Syrian conflict began in 2011, nearly 4,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria, hundreds of whom were tortured to death in the Assad regime's notoriously brutal prisons. The regime has also imprisoned at least 1,732 Palestinians, including 108 women and girls, accordingto the human rights watchdog. Syrian authorities have detained thousands more. Has Omar ever mentioned these atrocities? What about her progressive defenders in Congress, in the media, and on college campuses, all of whom claim to care about Palestinian rights? Palestinian leaders, both in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, certainly do not seem to care, nor do most of the Arab states in the Middle East.

The Palestinians' plight extends beyond Syria. The Gatestone Institute reported last month on Palestinian suffering in Lebanon, where more than 500,000 Palestinians live. "Most of the Palestinians in Lebanon live in 12 refugee camps, where they suffer from poverty, overcrowding and violence, as well as Lebanon's discriminatory and apartheid laws and measures that deny them basic rights," according to the institute. What is the response from pro-Palestinian forces? Silence.

What do all of these tragedies have in common? First, they do not involve Israel, and second, they receive no attention from all of the usual pro-Palestinian individuals—where are you, Linda Sarsour?—and organizations. The two commonalities are related. The media and activists obsessively cover any incident involving Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, portraying Israel as the evil aggressor even when Israeli forces kill a Palestinian terrorist trying to murder them. Yet these same journalists and college students (and their professors) never mention Palestinian suffering when the Jewish state is not involved. In fact, they probably do not even know about the Palestinian plight throughout the Arab world, which for the most part treated the Palestinians as lesser humans, political props to be exploited, after the creation of the modern state of Israel in 1948. This inconsistency is no coincidence: many of the usual pro-Palestinian forces do not actually care about Palestinians; their concern is hurting Israel, demonizing and delegitimizing the country until it ceases to exist as a Jewish state.

(full article online)

The Pro-Palestinian Charade


----------



## Hollie

Another of the frauds perpetrated by Islamics is the notion of 
the _Poor_, _Oppressed_ _Pal’istanians™️
_
While luxury and wealth arevcommon in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan, there’s also no shortage of welfare fraud money for the islsmic terrorist gophers to build tunnels.

For some reason, the West continues to finance Islamic terrorism.



Egypt destroys 37 tunnels which infiltrated from Gaza in 2018

The Egyptian military destroyed 37 cross-border tunnels linking the Gaza Strip to the  Sinai Peninsula over the past year, the country’s military has announced.

Egypt has in the past flooded Hamas tunnels along the Gaza Strip with sea-water or sewage, and has destroyed hundreds of homes on the Egyptian side of Rafah to remove the tunnels.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border





Hollie said:


> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,


Oh yeah, like what?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
Click to expand...



Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
Click to expand...


The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab Moslem invaders from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt who call themselves “Pal’istanians” still cling to the notion of a _Judenrein _Arab Islamist mini-caliphate.

*

Official PA TV teaches children 
that Israel will come to an end:*
*
Official PA TV teaches children that Israel will come to an end: “All of Palestine will return to us” - PMW Bulletins

"All of Palestine will return to us"*

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Despite insurances from Palestinian Authority leaders that they support a two-state solution and want to live side by side with Israel, the PA continues to teach children that Israel will come to an end.
k
Showing a drawing of a map of "Palestine" which included all of Israel together with the PA areas, the host on official PA TV stated that "all of Palestine will return to us":












*Official PA TV host to girl:* "Hold up [your drawing of] the map of Palestine. How nice! Allah willing, all of Palestine will return to us and we will enjoy its breathtaking views."
[Official PA TV, _The Best Home_, Feb. 21, 2019]

Palestinian Media Watch has documented this aspect of PA education numerous times and shown that the denial of Israel's right to exist is a fundamental message coming from PA leaders.

PA Minister of Education Sabri Saidam recently illustrated this same message - that all of Israel is "Palestine":


----------



## Sixties Fan

While most of Tala Halawa’s monologue is unremarkable, listeners may have noticed two spurious claims. [emphasis added]

Halawa: “Ramallah is so special because it has every available place to worship. Like, Christians have their churches, Muslims have their mosques and it’s* open for all cultures and religions.”*

Beyond the fact that there is nothing particularly “special” about a town with both churches and mosques, Ramallah – like the rest of the territory  under the control of the Palestinian Authority – is clearly not “open for all cultures and religions” when the sale of land to Jews is a criminal offence.

_Halawa: “Food is like the main thing that you can do in Ramallah. It’s the main activity. Palestinian food like falafel, hummus, barbecue.”_

Some consider falafel to have been invented by Egyptian Copts and hummus to also have originated in Egypt. Regardless of their actual origins, to describe those foods as “Palestinian” is inaccurate. While we have seen similar efforts to promote a politicised narrative using claims of “Palestinian food” before, the notion of the barbecue as “Palestinian” is certainly a new one.

(full article online)

In which BBC World Service listeners hear that barbecue is ‘Palestinian food’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ With Abbas, first things first......]

PA Imposing Hiring, Promotions Freeze, 50% Pay Cuts, Maintaining Full Salaries to Terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ These are the Muslims......period.....}

At the Abu Dhabi Louvre, culture, and particularly geography, fell hostage to UAE political considerations. In most Arab countries, Israel has been wiped out of regional maps, replaced by an imaginary Palestine. And that’s what happened at the UAE’s Louvre.

More surprisingly, due to the diplomatic quarrel with Qatar, that country simply disappeared from the map in the children’s museum of the Louvre altogether.

(full article online)

France Sells Out Its Culture for Cash


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, Mahmoud Abbas appointed a new prime minister, who now has two weeks to form a government.

Unlike the last prime minister Rami Hamdallah, this one - Mohammed Ashtayeh - is a member of Fatah, which Abbas leads.

Ashtayeh is an unabashed supporter of Abbas, and together with other political moves Abbas has done recently, power is now completely consolidated under Abbas for every single Palestinian governmental wing.

Ashtayeh is a dean of Arab American University. He was chosen partially because he is seen as a moderate that Europeans and Americans would accept.

If anyone has any doubt that Ashtayeh is a puppet of Abbas, just read the fawning letter Ashtayeh wrote to Abbas when accepting his position:

(full article online)

The next prime minister of the Palestinian Authority is an Abbas loyalist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Yesterday, Mahmoud Abbas appointed a new prime minister, who now has two weeks to form a government.
> 
> Unlike the last prime minister Rami Hamdallah, this one - Mohammed Ashtayeh - is a member of Fatah, which Abbas leads.
> 
> Ashtayeh is an unabashed supporter of Abbas, and together with other political moves Abbas has done recently, power is now completely consolidated under Abbas for every single Palestinian governmental wing.
> 
> Ashtayeh is a dean of Arab American University. He was chosen partially because he is seen as a moderate that Europeans and Americans would accept.
> 
> If anyone has any doubt that Ashtayeh is a puppet of Abbas, just read the fawning letter Ashtayeh wrote to Abbas when accepting his position:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The next prime minister of the Palestinian Authority is an Abbas loyalist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


He will not be approved by the parliament as the constitution requires.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Caution :  Disturbing images ]

Poisoned Animals Caught in Palestinian Bureaucratic Net

Palestinian municipalities routinely poison stray dogs, killing them painfully ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, Mahmoud Abbas appointed a new prime minister, who now has two weeks to form a government.
> 
> Unlike the last prime minister Rami Hamdallah, this one - Mohammed Ashtayeh - is a member of Fatah, which Abbas leads.
> 
> Ashtayeh is an unabashed supporter of Abbas, and together with other political moves Abbas has done recently, power is now completely consolidated under Abbas for every single Palestinian governmental wing.
> 
> Ashtayeh is a dean of Arab American University. He was chosen partially because he is seen as a moderate that Europeans and Americans would accept.
> 
> If anyone has any doubt that Ashtayeh is a puppet of Abbas, just read the fawning letter Ashtayeh wrote to Abbas when accepting his position:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The next prime minister of the Palestinian Authority is an Abbas loyalist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> He will not be approved by the parliament as the constitution requires.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorist dictators, masters of their welfare fraud funded mini-caliphates don't need no steeeennkin' constitution.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ US$100 .  WOW  !!!!!    The world's greatest welfare population in the world.  Keep up the good job.  Try and try and continue to try to destroy Israel.  The money is there for you.  Muslims feeding Muslims as long as they keep trying.  ]

The Qatari Gaza Reconstruction Committee, in a statement, said "disbursement began Monday of the fourth payment of cash assistance to poor families in the Gaza Strip".

In total 55,000 families in the strip would receive payments of $100 each.

Thousands of Arabs could be seen queuing early at post offices across Gaza.

"I am here to receive $100, but $100 does not solve the crisis," said Bassam Khalil Jaber, 40. "We need permanent solutions, and this grant is a temporary solution."

(full article online)

Gazans receive $100 payouts from Qatar


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
Click to expand...

Stupid plan is not working.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
Click to expand...

As usual, you are not paying attention.  The fence and Israel are still up and they are going to stay alive and well, keeping ALL Israelis and residents and tourists well.

Loser !!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting piece that lays out the emerging rivalry between the Islamic Jihad terrorist franchise and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza *
> 
> Islamic Jihad is the real threat from Gaza
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave, it would do well to pay attention to the organization that does not listen to Hamas and is only trying to make the situation worse.
> 
> Alex FishmanAlex Fishman|Published:  03.08.19 , 04:17
> 
> And so the Egyptians went to Gaza on Wednesday with a partial package. Last week, they tried to do their bit to ease tensions by releasing eight Hamas prisoners, but contrary to expectations, Hamas did not use this release to hold mass celebrations that would highlight the achievements of the organization's leadership. What Hamas wants is water and power, and it wants them now. It is demanding the immediate activation of Israel's Electric Corporation's plan to supply electricity to Gaza.
> 
> 
> The impact of the last round of Egyptian mediation efforts will be seen in the weekend protests at the Israel-Gaza border fence: If the violence escalates, Gaza will not accept the Israeli-Egyptian proposal to calm the situation. If the tensions remain at their current levels, there is still room for compromise. At the moment, both sides are one step away from the abyss. One small trigger, and we will find ourselves in a real conflict.
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad was responsible for most of the rocket, anti-tank missiles and sniper attacks carried out in recent months against Israel. Its leaders, who are hiding in the Dahiya neighborhood of Beirut under the leadership of deputy secretary-general Ziad al-Nahla, have decided to renew military activity from the Gaza Strip. The organization's representatives in Gaza also stopped coordinating their military activities with Hamas, as part of a joint war room set up by all the terrorist organizations in the Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protests on the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel is busy negotiating ways to calm tensions in the coastal enclave,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
Click to expand...


The israelis cleary have a plan to prevent islamic terrorists from breaching their border. What part of that plan hasn't worked?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Endtimer News.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, like what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The israelis cleary have a plan to prevent islamic terrorists from breaching their border. What part of that plan hasn't worked?
Click to expand...

Every time Israel shoots a Palestinian, it is shooting itself in the foot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Endtimer News.
Click to expand...


Stunning concision, as always.

How about something from Islamic terrorist TV?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like using sniper fire to calm the Islamist gee-had at the border riots.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The israelis cleary have a plan to prevent islamic terrorists from breaching their border. What part of that plan hasn't worked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every time Israel shoots a Palestinian, it is shooting itself in the foot.
Click to expand...

You are really on a losing streak today. 

Brainwashed Tinmore is not worth a response.  The poor Arabs are dying because of their worthless ideology of "Jews have no rights", and this senseless being can only gloat that one of those terrorists dying is "bad" for Israel.

Ha !

 I'll go have some ice cream, instead.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they have been working that flop for a year. When are they going to try something intelligent?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The israelis cleary have a plan to prevent islamic terrorists from breaching their border. What part of that plan hasn't worked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every time Israel shoots a Palestinian, it is shooting itself in the foot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are really on a losing streak today.
> 
> Brainwashed Tinmore is not worth a response.  The poor Arabs are dying because of their worthless ideology of "Jews have no rights", and this senseless being can only gloat that one of those terrorists dying is "bad" for Israel.
> 
> Ha !
> 
> I'll go have some ice cream, instead.
Click to expand...

In a likely war crime, IDF soldiers deliberately shot at children and people with disabilities when it quelled Hamas-led protests on the Gaza border during the last 11 months, a United Nations Human Rights Council commission of inquiry reported on Thursday morning.

UN: IDF deliberately shot children on Gaza border in apparent war crime


----------



## Sixties Fan

At last month’s American-backed Middle East summit in Warsaw, the Palestinian issue remained conspicuously absent as Arab leaders appeared side-by-side with Benjamin Netanyahu. Alex Joffe explains why, after a century of agitation, Palestinian nationalism has hit a dead end:

_On the one hand, [Palestinian nationalism] relies on romantic visions of an imaginary past, the myth of ancestors sitting beneath their lemon trees. These and other supposedly timeless essences are at odds with the hardscrabble reality of pre-modern Palestine, which was controlled by the Ottoman empire, dominated by its leading families, and beset by endemic poverty and disease. As in all national visions, these unhappy memories are mostly edited out.

On the other hand, Palestinian nationalism is [itself] resolutely negative, in that it relies on the existential evils of “settler-colonialist” Zionism and ever-perfidious Jews. Consider the essential symbols of Palestine: a fighter holding a rifle and a map that erases Israel completely. It is a nationalism—and thus an identity—based in large part on negation of [another nation], preferably through violence. [These symbols] also imply that Palestinian identity exists only through struggle. . . .

In terms of creating an actual state, the Palestinian problem is one that is also endemic to Arab and Islamic states. Because the state is fundamentally an extension or tool of the ruling tribe, sect, or ideology, the state’s security institutions are exceptionally strong but its social institutions are weak, both by default and by design. In Palestinian society, the proliferation of security organizations maps onto tribal and clan groups. But, as in many Arab and Islamic states, health, education, and welfare services are either neglected or (just as often) funded by external sources. . . . For the Palestinians, it is foreign aid, nongovernmental organizations, and the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA)._

Joffe concludes that until Palestinian leaders reject their traditional tools of “threats, shaming, and blackmail” and accept that Israel isn’t going anywhere—both of which he deems unlikely in the foreseeable future—the failure will continue.

(full article online)

The Failure of Palestinian Nationalism


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The israelis cleary have a plan to prevent islamic terrorists from breaching their border. What part of that plan hasn't worked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every time Israel shoots a Palestinian, it is shooting itself in the foot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are really on a losing streak today.
> 
> Brainwashed Tinmore is not worth a response.  The poor Arabs are dying because of their worthless ideology of "Jews have no rights", and this senseless being can only gloat that one of those terrorists dying is "bad" for Israel.
> 
> Ha !
> 
> I'll go have some ice cream, instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a likely war crime, IDF soldiers deliberately shot at children and people with disabilities when it quelled Hamas-led protests on the Gaza border during the last 11 months, a United Nations Human Rights Council commission of inquiry reported on Thursday morning.
> 
> UN: IDF deliberately shot children on Gaza border in apparent war crime
Click to expand...


Hamas has instigated a war. They brought civilans. 

Pass that on to the UN.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis clearly are doing something intelligent; they are protecting their borders from the Islamic gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid plan is not working.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The israelis cleary have a plan to prevent islamic terrorists from breaching their border. What part of that plan hasn't worked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every time Israel shoots a Palestinian, it is shooting itself in the foot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are really on a losing streak today.
> 
> Brainwashed Tinmore is not worth a response.  The poor Arabs are dying because of their worthless ideology of "Jews have no rights", and this senseless being can only gloat that one of those terrorists dying is "bad" for Israel.
> 
> Ha !
> 
> I'll go have some ice cream, instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a likely war crime, IDF soldiers deliberately shot at children and people with disabilities when it quelled Hamas-led protests on the Gaza border during the last 11 months, a United Nations Human Rights Council commission of inquiry reported on Thursday morning.
> 
> UN: IDF deliberately shot children on Gaza border in apparent war crime
Click to expand...

The UN ?  That totally " NOT BIASED " organization which controls how many times it can decide to kick Israel in the chin?  

That report comes from the same caca the UN is made of


----------



## Sixties Fan

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The concept of “settler colonialism” has been applied with almost unique vehemence against Israel. But the fact that Jews are the indigenous population of the Southern Levant can be proved with ease. In contrast, historical and genealogical evidence shows Palestinians descend primarily from three primary groups: Muslim invaders, Arab immigrants, and local converts to Islam. The Muslim conquest of Byzantine Palestine in the 7th century CE is a textbook example of settler-colonialism, as is subsequent immigration, particularly during the 19th and 20th centuries under the Ottoman and British Empires. The application of the concept to Jews and Zionism by Palestinians is both ironic and unhelpful*.*

(full article online)

Palestinian Settler-Colonialism


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Planes, Mansions and expensive cars......Oh, my !  ]

QudsNews reports that the "Coalition for Integrity and Accountability," known as AMAL, released a report saying that the Palestinian Authority government of Rami Hamdallah that recently resigned purchased 5000 new vehicles, claiming that maintenance of old vehicles was too expensive.

Also, one of the government's ministers who was not named changed the furniture of his office not too long after a previous changes, at a cost of 300 thousand shekels.

Even though the Palestinian government announced austerity measures in 2015, it did not actually implement any austerity procedures. The operating budget rose during the years of "austerity" 2016-2018 from  6 billion to 7 billion shekels.

While the government officials spent lavishly on their own needs, employees were forced to retire early, according to this report.

(full article online)

Previous Palestinian government wasted millions on new cars despite "austerity" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It’s quite clear that the Arab-Moslem Death Cult is suffering from a dangerous pathology.


"PA Minister Muhammad Ishtayeh Praises Mastermind of Munich Olympics Terror Attack, States: I Believe Palestinian History "Will Continue to Be Written in Red Ink""


Muhammad Ishtayeh: The martyr Abu Daoud continues the convoy of martyrs who fell for the sake of Palestine. We all follow this path.

As for the claim that history can be rewritten in a different way – I think it is unjust to say that Palestinian history can be written in a different ink. The ink in which the Palestinian history has been is red, and I believe that it will continue to be written in red ink.

In addition, the martyr Abu Daoud was officially eulogized by the Fatah movement and the Palestinian establishment.


----------



## Hollie

*IDF to Submit Accounts of Hamas War Crimes to ICC*

IDF to Submit Accounts of Hamas War Crimes to ICC
_






Palestinian protesters during clashes with Israeli security forces on the Gaza Israeli border east of Khan Yunis, in the southern Gaza Strip. (Credit: Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)

Thirty-three testimonies of Israel Defense Forces’ combat soldiers were set to be submitted to the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague on Thursday as proof that Hamas terrorists carry out war crimes and use Palestinian civilians as human shields.
_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Look who needs to go to war with Israel, again.  Not to worry.  It will be Israel's fault again. ]

The Arab_ Al-Hadaf_ news site on Tuesday reported that a senior Hamas source exposed the terror organization's intensified activities,_Israel Hayom_ reported.

These activities, the source said, are intended to foil an "extensive Israeli operation" in Gaza, expected to take place before the April 9 elections.

The site quoted a Hamas official as saying that despite Egypt's efforts to broker peace, Hamasis preparing for an escalation with Israel, and Israel has intensified its activities in Gaza.

Hamas leaders have also changed the guidelines for the military wing in an attempt to prevent agents from operating within Gaza. The new guidelines demand terror activists avoid receiving any type of gifts from those who they do not know, avoid walking or driving alone at night, and completely avoid smartphones which have not been inspected.

(full article online)

Report: Hamas readying for Israeli attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

Senior Hamas official says something disturbing to Palestinian Arab Youth


----------



## The Original Tree

toastman said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
Click to expand...

*There are many Messianic Jews who believe that Jesus came as Messiah Bin Joseph and will return to rule Earth governing from Jerusalem as Messiah Bin David.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

New Palestinian Authority PM, In 2010 Interview From The MEMRI Archives, Praised Mastermind Of Munich Olympics Terror Attack, Adding That He Believes Palestinian History 'Will Continue To Be Written In Red Ink'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reuters Corrects Inflated Gaza Refugees Figure


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO's Hanan Ashrawi spoke to representatives of the International Labor Organization on Tuesday. Most of her speech was about how Israel is terrible for Palestinian workers.

Here's what she didn't mention.

About 127,000 Palestinians work in Israel - including some 22,000 in Israeli "settlements." This is about 13% of the total Palestinian workforce, including Gaza.

The average daily wage for Palestinians working in the West Bank (as of June 2018) is 107 shekels, while the average  daily wage for those who work for Israelis is 248 shekels. This means about 30% of the income from West Bank Palestinians is from Israel.

Palestinian "activists" fight tooth and nail against Israel building more industrial parks in the territories, when in fact they would provide a huge boost to the PA economy.

These facts must have just slipped Ashrawi's mind.

What Hanan Ashrawi didn't tell the International Labor Organization ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel's Border Police uncovered a terror cell in the Jerusalem-area Arab town of Qalandiya.

The cell, which included seven terrorists from Qalandiya, would hurl explosives and firebombs at a nearby crossing.

A senior Border Police investigative officer explained, "The investigations revealed organized terror activities, led by Mustafa Khaled Shakhada Kasaba, who was born in 2000 and lives in Qalandiya. Since March 2018, he has been involved in selling weapons, some of which were used in terror attacks on Israeli towns."

"In addition, it seems that Mustafa would supply explosives and firebombs to a cell of six suspects. He led this cell and sometimes would take part in its activities.

"As the investigation progressed, the conditions for the Border Police's special forces to act improved. Among other things, the Border Police unit of 'Mistarvim' (counter-terrorism officers who operate undercover in Arab areas - ed.) attempted to arrest the terrorists red-handed. As part of the operation, officers worked on December 25, 2018, at the Qalandiya Crossing. That night, they identified four people hurling explosives at the Crossing.

"We worked at the scene for an extended amount of time, until we noticed several suspects arriving from Qalandiya. Suddenly the suspects pulled out explosives, lit them, and threw them at the Crossing. We immediately readied for their arrest, with the officers very close to the unsuspecting suspects. The moment we noticed them hurling explosives at the Crossing, we jumped from our positions and chased them down, arresting two of them.

"In that operation, we arrested Ahmad Mohammed Hussani Amatir (18) and another minor suspect (17), both residents of Qalandiya, and transferred them for interrogation.

(full article online)

Cleared for publication: Terror cell exposed near Jerusalem


----------



## The Original Tree

*Can you imagine driving around in The United States and just having people hurl dynamite or other types of explosives at you from a Street Corner?*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Attempt to Conquer the Temple Mount With Corpses


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The consequences of Arab culture on freedom of women in Israel ]

Lod: Bride-to-be killed just prior to wedding


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Just where were all of these endless heroes during the Ottoman 800 year rule of the region called Palestine by the Romans, or during the Christian Crusade ?  ]
















*Official PA TV host:* “Palestinian women have created a history filled with their resolve, with their strength, and [for] some of them - with [sacrificing] their freedom in prison... Through their Martyrdom-deaths Palestinian women have participated in chapters of struggle in the most prominent events in Palestinian history... *It will never be possible to review the struggle of the Palestinian women without [mentioning] the two self-sacrificing fighters Dalal Mughrabi and Laila Khaled - the first woman who hijacked an Israeli plane - as the most prominent names of the Palestinian resistance*.”

Captions on images of the two terrorists in the PA TV studio:
“*Self-sacrificing fighter Laila Khaled*, who hijacked an Israeli plane [in] 1969.”
“*Self-sacrificing fighter Dalal Mughrabi*”
[Official PA TV News, March 8, 2019]

Likewise Fatah, the ruling party in the PA and headed by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has emphasized Palestinian women’s role as terrorists using weapons. The image above of the face of a Palestinian woman with the barrel of a rifle was posted by Fatah with the following text:

*Posted text: *"And for International Women's Day:
*To the mothers of the Martyrs (Shahids), to the mothers of the prisoners, to the mothers of the detainees, to the Palestinian mothers, who were nursed by Palestine with the milk of honor and glory, to the Palestinian women - may you be the masters of the land every year*"

*Text on image:* “(In Arabic *Palestine*
(In Arabic and English *8th of March the International Woman (sic.) Day*
(In Arabic *General Union of Palestinian Women*"
[Official Fatah Facebook page, March 8, 2019]

Another Fatah post promoted women as rock throwers with this image of masked Palestinian women using slingshots:

(full article online)

For the sake of equality: PA and Fatah honor female terrorists on International Women’s Day - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Here comes the islamic terrorist clown car. Piling out will be another islamic terrorist clown wearing gigantic clown shoes and waddling along in the clown footsteps of Arafat and his successor, Arafat II (Abbas).

It's another islamic terrorist / UNRWA welfare recipient who will have a meaningless title in one of the alphabet soup labels that "Pal'istan" front groups use to keep the welfare entitlement moving along.



*Muhammad Shtayyeh: 
Profile of the new Palestinian Prime Minister
*
Muhammad Shtayyeh: Profile of the new Palestinian Prime Minister - PMW Bulletins
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Since 2007, the position of Palestinian Authority Prime Minister has been held by a succession of so-called "technocrats" that were not seen as being openly aligned with either Fatah or Hamas.

Potentially signaling a deepening of the rift between Fatah and Hamas, and after his decision to dissolve the Palestinian Parliament (that had not functioned for 12 years), PA Chairman and head of Fatah, Mahmoud Abbas, has appointed Muhammad Shtayyeh - a member of Fatah's Central Committee - to replace Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah, the latest of the "technocrats."

Over the years, Palestinian Media Watch has exposed a number of statements by Shtayyeh, which show that he endorses terrorists as freedom fighters, and encourages the use of "all means" in the struggle against Israel.

Like many others, Shtayyeh believes that Palestinian terrorists, including terrorists and murderers imprisoned in Israel, are not terrorists but rather freedom fighters, or as he terms it - "freedom seekers":

"*The homeland is more precious than a human being for us. Our brothers that are in the prisons, the 6,500 prisoners - why did they go to prison? Because they wanted to sacrifice themselves for Palestine. *Honestly,* [Israel's] false claim and distorted picture that these people are terrorists* - these people, to put it very succinctly, [belong to] a people that is under occupation that is fighting the occupying state. When Britain occupied America, in short, the US [was] claiming and saying that it freed its land from the British colonialism. All of the states that were under occupation - international law allows them to fight this occupation. Therefore, *these prisoners are 'freedom seekers' and we are with them*. These prisoners defended the dignity of their land and human dignity."
[Official PA TV, April 29, 2017


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A totally desperate Palestinian ]

WATCH: ‘Saudis are Zionist Jews in Islamic Garb,’ Claims Palestinian-Brazilian Politician


----------



## Sixties Fan

In direct breach of its commitments, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS), which is a member of the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC), is set to host a BDS conference.




In a notice posted on its Facebook page, the Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) movement announced that it will hold its bi-annual conference on Saturday March 16, on the premises of the Palestinian Red Crescent.

*Posted text:* “Under the auspices of the Palestinian people, *the Palestinian National Boycott Movement invites you to participate in the Sixth National Conference of the Movement to Boycott, Divest, and Sanction (BDS) Israel*, under the title *‘Another boycott and struggle against normalization in order to resist the colonialist and racist Israeli regime and to isolate it.’* This is on Saturday, March 16, 2019, from 10:30 a.m. until 3:00 p.m.,* at the Congress Hall in the Palestinian Red Crescent [Building] in El-Bireh*.”
[Facebook page of BDS Arabic, March 10, 2019]

The PRCS is a member of the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) that is associated with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).

In order for the PRCS to join the IFRC, it had to commit to upholding seven fundamental principles set down by the latter, which mirror the same fundamental principles set down by the ICRC.

In particular, the PRCS would have had to commit to upholding the principle of *Neutrality*, which requires that “In order to continue to enjoy the confidence of all, t*he Movement may not take sides* in hostilities or *engage at any time in controversies of a political, racial, religious or ideological nature*.”

Needless to say, the use of the facilities of the PRCS to host a BDS conference named “Another boycott and struggle against normalization in order to resist the colonialist and racist Israeli regime and to isolate it,” is a direct breach of the principle of neutrality, and should be condemned in the strongest form.

Unfortunately, the politicization of the PRCS is not new. Palestinian Media Watch reported that the organization cancelled its 50th year anniversary in December last year to honor three terrorists:

"*Out of respect for the blood of the Martyrs (Shahids) who ascended to Heaven recently* after being shot by the Israeli occupation..."
[WAFA, official PA news agency, Dec. 13, 2018]

(full article online)

Palestinian Red Crescent to host BDS conference - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Former Kuwaiti minister slams "Palestinian" extremists


----------



## Hollie

There was a rather.... how shall we say..... "emphatic" beat down of the Gaza franchise of islamic terrorists in response to missiles fired at Israel.

Hamas is going to need to do some world class bending and scraping before their Shia masters in Iran for welfare money to repair the damage.


IDF: Hamas rocket fire on Tel Aviv was a 'mistake'

100 targets struck across the Gaza Strip following first rocket fire towards central Israel since 2014.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Linda Sarsour continues the Palestinian display of admiration and loyalty for the Nazis Al Husseini did when he joined the Nazis in killing Jews in Bosnia ]

Linda Sarsour proudly displays the V For victory sign as she poses with the Nazi symbol

Matthew Levine


----------



## Sixties Fan

There were others in Israel like the Mercaz Harav attack, but Issa's fellow Palestinians also have targeted synagogues worldwide. 
The attack on the Great Synagogue of Rome in 1982 by five Palestinians killed a three year old.

In 1986 two Palestinians mowed down 22 worshipers in an Istanbul synagogue.

There were other attacks on synagogues that killed non Jews, like in Ghriba and another in Istanbul, by Islamists who were incited by Palestinian propaganda.  Also a number of plots to blow up synagogues in the US by Islamists were foiled by the FBI.

If you want an analogy to today's coordinated massacre, apparently fueled by incitement and hate, there are plenty of better examples than Hebron - incidentally a city whose synagogues were ransacked in 1929 by Amro's heroes.

Amro's glee in trying to make the horrific New Zealand massaacres about Palestinians shows that he really diesdoe give a damn about the victims.  They are just pawns in his anti Israel crusade.

(full article online)

Issa Amro politicizes today's massacre to make it all about Palestinians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Then, for the first time ever, it goes on to very briefly address the Tamimi extradition:

"A U.S. criminal complaint was unsealed in March charging Ahlam Aref Ahmad Al-Tamimi, a Jordanian national in her mid-30s, with conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction against U.S. nationals outside the United States resulting in death. The charge is related to her participation in an August 9, 2001, suicide bomb attack at a restaurant in Jerusalem that killed 15 people, including two U.S. nationals. Four other U.S. nationals were among the approximately 122 others injured in the attack. Also unsealed was a warrant for Al-Tamimi’s arrest and an affidavit in support of the criminal complaint and arrest warrant. Jordan’s courts have ruled that their constitution forbids the extradition of Jordanian nationals."


That last sentence is _astounding_; it's also quite revealing. Why does this important State Department report to Congress not go on to explain, which is _certainly _the case, that while Jordan says it's invalid, the US says the exact opposite. The US says the 1995 Jordan/US Extradition Treaty is fully in effect. Isn't that worth noting in a report to Congress? Shouldn't they at least say the US does not agree with Jordan? And that the US believes Jordan is wrong?

Tamimi has become an iconic figure, a person of huge influence in a region where terrorism is a daily and manifest threat to public stability. She lives a life to which no one with a violent history of savagery like hers should ever be entitled.


(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 14-Mar-19: Two years after Federal charges are unsealed, Ahlam Tamimi remains free. How is this happening?


----------



## Hollie

Awww. Those "Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians"


*EU court upholds freeze on Hamas funds*
An EU court rejected a challenge by Hamas against its 2015 listing as a 'terrorist' organization.

EU court upholds freeze on Hamas funds



6 Mar 2019




Hamas describes itself as 'a lawful political movement' that won the Palestinian elections [Khalil Hamra/Associated Press]
A European Union court has rejected a challenge by Hamas against its 2015 listing as a "terrorist" organisation, a decision that made the Palestinian group liable to EU sanctions.

The EU General Court's ruling was the latest rejection of Hamas's efforts to be struck from an EU blacklist created in 2001 - a list based on a UN resolution following the 9/11 attacks in the United States.


----------



## Sixties Fan

View image on Twitter




Disgusting cartoon. Israel is attacked..defends itself..Israel blamed.. again. Hamas/other terrorist groups: it doesn’t work anymore. The game is up. Keep trying to play & lose more & more for the Palestinians of Gaza. Understand reality, then we can talk about improving lives.

Jason D. Greenblatt on Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas’s security forces disperse rare Gaza protests against its rule


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas said to beat Gazans protesting dire economic conditions for second day


----------



## Hollie

Now this is funny.

The Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza’istan are rioting, with this version of riots in protest of Hamas.

As a part of those riots, Arabs-Moslems are burning tires in the streets.

Will we see a balloon gee-had directed at Hamas?




Hamas Violently Puts Down Riots Against Its Misrule in Gaza



In the wake of two rockets fired toward Tel Aviv and retaliatory Israeli air strikes, Hamas, the terrorist group that exercises political and military control over Gaza, was caught on video violently putting down protests against its misrule, The Times of Israel reported Friday.


Though Hamas canceled its so-called Great March of Return on Friday, hundreds of Gazans in Deir el-Balah and Khan Younis protested the poor living conditions under the terror group.


According to reports in Hebrew media, protesters burned tires in Deir el-Balah and blocked its main street.

Ynet reported on Friday that forces loyal to the terror group beat protesters. Sounds of gunfire were also heard.




It’s a party. We need some female Gaza medics to attend.


----------



## Hollie

As the Islamic knuckledraggers have demonstrated so often, they’re as much a danger to themselves as they are to others.

Giving Islamic retrogrades access to complicated machinery is like letting children play with matches, 




*Like Monty Python: TV details how Hamas ‘accidentally’ fired rockets at Tel Aviv*

*Like Monty Python: TV details how Hamas ‘accidentally’ fired rockets at Tel Aviv

Low-level member touched rockets, setting them off by mistake, Israeli report says; fire came as Hamas chiefs were meeting with incredulous Egyptian mediators*
By TOI STAFF15 March 2019, 9:19 pm  





Palestinian members of the al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of the Hamas terror movement, display Qassam home-made rockets during an anti-Israel military parade on August 21, 2016 in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. (Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)
The two Gaza rockets that almost brought Israel and Hamas to war late Thursday were fired by accident, Israel’s Channel 13 news reported Friday, when low-level Hamas operatives “messed with” a Gaza beach rocket launcher that was set up to fire toward Tel Aviv in the event of future conflict.

The report said the farcical chain of events that almost led to war was “like something out of Monty Python,” referring to the legendary British comedy group.

The report said news of rocket sirens blaring in Tel Aviv broke as Yihya Sinwar and other Hamas leaders were meeting with an Egyptian delegation trying to mediate eased Israeli economic restrictions on Gaza.

“You’re meeting with us at the same time as you’re firing on Tel Aviv?” the Egyptians reportedly asked Sinwar in fury.

He told them he knew nothing about the matter, went to check, and established what had happened, the report said.




I thought I read somewhere that Yahya issued the following statement:  “_Oops”_

Although, I might have misread that. 


The Egyptians then called Israeli defense chiefs and relayed what they had been told. Israel told the Egyptian delegation to leave Gaza — the delegates crossed into Israel at the Erez crossing — and then began its retaliatory strikes on Hamas targets.





Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (top right) meets with security brass at the IDF’s Kirya military headquarters in Tel Aviv on March 14, 2019. (Ariel Hermoni/Defense Ministry)
Had the rocket fire been deliberate, the Israeli response would have been five times heavier, the TV report said. The rocket fire was the first at Tel Aviv since 2014.

The Egyptians reportedly told Hamas that if it responded heavily to the Israeli strikes, there would be a major escalation of conflict. Hamas did fire several more rockets across the border early Friday.

The TV report said Hamas has arrested one or more operatives over the “accidental” fire.

It also said that Hamas had proved that it fully controls the weekly Gaza border protests by acting to cancel Friday’s gatherings to ensure relative calm prevailed.

The report noted that Palestinian Authority sources in Ramallah doubt the Hamas account of accidental fire. Israeli army sources, however, have indicated they also consider the rocket launches to have been accidental.

In response to the two rockets fired at Tel Aviv, which did not hit residential areas and caused no direct injury, Israeli war planes hit over 100 Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip overnight Thursday-Friday. Israel holds Hamas, the Islamist terror group that rules the Strip, responsible for any attacks emanating from the coastal enclave.





A Palestinian man walks past a crater on the ground following an Israeli air strike targeting a site belonging to Gaza’s terror group Hamas, in Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip, March 15, 2019. Israel struck Gaza terror targets after 2 rockets were fired at Tel Aviv from Gaza. (Said Khatib/AFP)


----------



## Hollie

Life in the mini-caliphate of Yahya’istan is not all date palms and camel’s milk. 


*Hamas forces open fire again on Gazans' protesting cost of living*
03/15/2019

Hamas forces open fire again on Gazans' protesting cost of living

3:25:28 PM
Written by
i24NEWS



_Masked Palestinian Hamas gunmen take part in the funeral of Hamas militant, Jan. 23, 2019_
*AP Photo/ Khalil 

Various Palestinian factions expressed their opposition to the suppression of the popular demonstrations*
Hamas forces opened fire for the second straight day at Palestinians protesting on Friday the cost of living in the Gaza Strip and demanding a halt on taxes.

Hamas security broke up protests in the Gaza Strip Thursday and Friday, cracking down on a rare public show of dissent in the Palestinian territory that resulted in several arrests of Gazans who blocked roads and burned tires at several points in the Strip.



I can’t help but see some comedy gold in that tires meant for the border gee-had are being diverted for use at the street corner gee-had by the same group of tire burning chuckleheads.

And Allah knows best.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Religion of Peace ]

Palestinians rip doors off disputed building on Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian self-immolates on 3rd day of Gaza protests against Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Day 3 of Anti-Gov’t Riots in Gaza: Hamas Arrests 4 Human Rights Workers Plus Journalists


----------



## Hollie

It would seem that the Egyptians are getting tired of making excuses for the acts of Islamic terrorism perpetrated by Hamas and their Iranian bed-mates. 



*Egypt threatens Hamas: Israel will defeat you*
Egyptian official tells Hamas: 'You're endangering our lives,' 'blood of Gaza residents is on your hands.' Sinwar: We didn't fire anything.

Egypt threatens Hamas: Israel will defeat you

Arutz Sheva Staff,  17/03/19 08:28






Egyptian intelligence officials seethed with anger on Thursday night after missiles were fired from Gaza at Tel Aviv, _Israel Hayom_ reported.

One official, who was one of the Egyptian delegates present in Gaza during those dramatic moments, told _Israel Hayom_'s Daniel Sirioti about the delegation's conversation with Hamas Thursday night.

At the beginning of the meeting, the atmosphere was very relaxed," the Egyptian official told Sirioti. "We had just returned from Israel with answers, we estimated that Hamas would accept them and allow us to begin a stable, long-term peace. A few minutes later, one of the Egyptian delegation's aides entered the room looking worried, and gave the delegation leaders his cellular phone."

"The smiles immediately turned into frowns, and senior delegates turned to Hamas leader Yahyah Sinwar and yelled at him: 'Where do you think you'll end up with your double play? We're sitting here to finalize a peace agreement with Israel, and behind our backs you allow your people to fire missiles at Tel Aviv??'

"'If Israel decides to start a widescale operation in Gaza, this time we're not going to do anything to stop the Israeli attacks. Even if Israel decides to bring down your rule in Gaza by assassinating every single one of you, while they reconquer Gaza. Egypt and its regional allies will not lift a finger to stop the Israeli response.'"


----------



## Hollie

More fun and games in the mini-caliphate of Yahya’istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It would seem that the Egyptians are getting tired of making excuses for the acts of Islamic terrorism perpetrated by Hamas and their Iranian bed-mates.
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt threatens Hamas: Israel will defeat you*
> Egyptian official tells Hamas: 'You're endangering our lives,' 'blood of Gaza residents is on your hands.' Sinwar: We didn't fire anything.
> 
> Egypt threatens Hamas: Israel will defeat you
> 
> Arutz Sheva Staff,  17/03/19 08:28
> 
> View attachment 250666
> 
> 
> Egyptian intelligence officials seethed with anger on Thursday night after missiles were fired from Gaza at Tel Aviv, _Israel Hayom_ reported.
> 
> One official, who was one of the Egyptian delegates present in Gaza during those dramatic moments, told _Israel Hayom_'s Daniel Sirioti about the delegation's conversation with Hamas Thursday night.
> 
> At the beginning of the meeting, the atmosphere was very relaxed," the Egyptian official told Sirioti. "We had just returned from Israel with answers, we estimated that Hamas would accept them and allow us to begin a stable, long-term peace. A few minutes later, one of the Egyptian delegation's aides entered the room looking worried, and gave the delegation leaders his cellular phone."
> 
> "The smiles immediately turned into frowns, and senior delegates turned to Hamas leader Yahyah Sinwar and yelled at him: 'Where do you think you'll end up with your double play? We're sitting here to finalize a peace agreement with Israel, and behind our backs you allow your people to fire missiles at Tel Aviv??'
> 
> "'If Israel decides to start a widescale operation in Gaza, this time we're not going to do anything to stop the Israeli attacks. Even if Israel decides to bring down your rule in Gaza by assassinating every single one of you, while they reconquer Gaza. Egypt and its regional allies will not lift a finger to stop the Israeli response.'"


Egypt has been siding with Israel for 60 years. What is their point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would seem that the Egyptians are getting tired of making excuses for the acts of Islamic terrorism perpetrated by Hamas and their Iranian bed-mates.
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt threatens Hamas: Israel will defeat you*
> Egyptian official tells Hamas: 'You're endangering our lives,' 'blood of Gaza residents is on your hands.' Sinwar: We didn't fire anything.
> 
> Egypt threatens Hamas: Israel will defeat you
> 
> Arutz Sheva Staff,  17/03/19 08:28
> 
> View attachment 250666
> 
> 
> Egyptian intelligence officials seethed with anger on Thursday night after missiles were fired from Gaza at Tel Aviv, _Israel Hayom_ reported.
> 
> One official, who was one of the Egyptian delegates present in Gaza during those dramatic moments, told _Israel Hayom_'s Daniel Sirioti about the delegation's conversation with Hamas Thursday night.
> 
> At the beginning of the meeting, the atmosphere was very relaxed," the Egyptian official told Sirioti. "We had just returned from Israel with answers, we estimated that Hamas would accept them and allow us to begin a stable, long-term peace. A few minutes later, one of the Egyptian delegation's aides entered the room looking worried, and gave the delegation leaders his cellular phone."
> 
> "The smiles immediately turned into frowns, and senior delegates turned to Hamas leader Yahyah Sinwar and yelled at him: 'Where do you think you'll end up with your double play? We're sitting here to finalize a peace agreement with Israel, and behind our backs you allow your people to fire missiles at Tel Aviv??'
> 
> "'If Israel decides to start a widescale operation in Gaza, this time we're not going to do anything to stop the Israeli attacks. Even if Israel decides to bring down your rule in Gaza by assassinating every single one of you, while they reconquer Gaza. Egypt and its regional allies will not lift a finger to stop the Israeli response.'"
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt has been siding with Israel for 60 years. What is their point?
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are silly. What is your point?


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists sure like those Great Satan welfare dollars.


Gaza resident set himself on fire in protest over Hamas rule- Report

A Palestinian Hamas-hired civil servant displays U.S. Dollar banknotes after receiving her salary paid by Qatar, in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip


----------



## Hollie

It seems that the Islamic terrorists in Fatah are wasting no time in using the Gaza protests as a means to humiliate their Hamas rivals. 



Hamas faces harsh criticism for crushing Gaza protesters

Fatah: "Palestinians have launched an uprising against Hamas"

Several Palestinian factions on Saturday called on Hamas to withdraw its security forces from the streets and main squares and to release Palestinians who were arrested for protesting high prices and taxes in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The UN should send a strongly worded email (they could type it in all caps), demanding that Fatah arm its soldiers and send in a reconnaissance force. 

That should solve things. Oh, and cc the Iranian mullahs. 


UN official condemns Hamas crackdown on Gaza protests

Footage posted on social media shows terror organization's security forces brutally beating protesters with clubs and detaining dozens of demonstrators, including human rights officials monitoring the proceedings


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ When Arab Palestinians are taught from birth that the land is their, and no one else's......this is what will continue to happen ]

The definition of peace when it comes to the Jews and the Arabs is not what this 13 year old Palestinian Arab said. She wants peace between the Arabs with no Jews. She wants to chase all the Jews out of the land of Israel, the JEWISH homeland! The 13 year old said there can only be a “Palestine,” and that two states cannot exist. And so she said, “You Jews must get out of our land. That is the only solution.” Can you imagine that a child so young is saying such radical things?

(full article online)

13 year old Palestinian Arab gives absurd definition of peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Pass the Candy and pastries]

After news of the attack spread, Gazans wearing scarfs bearing the names of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups were spotted handing out candies and pastries to locals in the southern Gaza Strip to celebrate the attacks.

The Hamas terror group officially backed the attacks, calling them “heroic” responses “to the crimes of the occupation and what is happening in Jerusalem and al-Aqsa.”

(full article online)

Watch: Gazans celebrate deadly attack on Israelis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad praises "heroic operations" of triple terror attack ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amad, a Palestinian news site, has an exclusive report of the criteria to join the (real) Bilderberg group and what its agenda is.

The Bilderberg Group is not a secret. It is a bunch of Europeans and American leaders and heads of corporations who meet regularly to discuss Atlanticism.

According to Amad, however, they are all either Jews or Freemasons. Any new member must be either Jewish, Zionist or a globalist.

It runs the world, according to the Arab media.  In the West, a ruler does not ascend to power or take office without the approval of this group. Which means they chose Clinton and Obama to be Presidents.  (They are strangely silent on Trump.)

(full article online)

Palestinian paper reveals secrets of Bilderberg group.(Sounds a lot like the Elders of Zion.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Linda Sarsour Accused Of Enabling Sexual Assault Against Woman Who Worked For Her


Linda Sarsour Attacks Chuck Schumer For Being A White Man


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And the UN is going to do what.....about it? ]

Linda Sarsour Attacks Chuck Schumer For Being A White Man


----------



## Hollie

There’s always something exciting to do in the mini-caliphate of Yahya’istan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The new cabinet and government is made up of only Fatah members, as opposed to the previous one which was nominally independent.

Abbas has dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council which was led by Hamas members. To do it, he used the Palestinian Constitutional Court, which has mostly Fatah members that Abbas handpicked in 2016.

In other words, every single Palestinian executive, legislative and judicial branch is now headed by Fatah, and Mahmoud Abbas is the head of Fatah besides being president of the Palestinian Authority and the PLO.

Fatah does not recognize Israel, even though the PLO pretends to.

(full article online)

Fatah now controls every Palestinian government institution. And Fatah doesn't recognize Israel. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA official implicitly endorses yesterday’s terror attack in which 2 Israelis were murdered - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah says Hamas beat up one of its leaders


----------



## Hollie

There was a lot of celebrating in the Islamic Death Cult that was prompted by the killing of Jews.

Such are islamic misfits. 



Watch: Gazans celebrate deadly attack on Israelis

Supporters of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorist organizations in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip celebrated the pair of terror attacks targeting Israelis in Samaria Monday, distributing candies and pastries to Gazans after word reached the Strip of the attack.

On Sunday, a Palestinian Arab terrorist stabbed 19-year-old IDF soldier Gal Keidan to death at Ariel Junction in Samaria, stole his fire arm, and proceeded to open fire on Israeli vehicles before stealing a car and driving west to Gitai Avisar Junction, where he shot and wounded a second IDF soldier.

A third Israeli, Rabbi Ahiad Ettinger, was critically wounded in the attack.

After news of the attack spread, Gazans wearing scarfs bearing the names of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups were spotted handing out candies and pastries to locals in the southern Gaza Strip cities of Khan Yunis and Rafah to celebrate the attacks.

The Hamas terror group officially backed the attacks, calling them “heroic” responses “to the crimes of the occupation and what is happening in Jerusalem and al-Aqsa.”


----------



## Hollie

Could we please stop "triggering" Linda Sarsour?

Such a tender soul is offended.

Linda Sarsour ‘Triggered’ By ‘Hate Mob’ Against Omar ‘Giving Condolences’ To Muslim Community After Shooting

*LINDA SARSOUR ‘TRIGGERED’ BY ‘HATE MOB’ AGAINST OMAR ‘GIVING CONDOLENCES’ TO MUSLIM COMMUNITY AFTER SHOOTING
*
11:48 AM 03/16/2019 | US

Scott Morefield | Reporter

Liberal Muslim activist Linda Sarsour tweeted that she is “triggered” by a “hate mob” against Democratic Representative Ilhan Omar that is “now giving condolences” to the Muslim community in the wake of the Christchurch, New Zealand shootings.

“I am triggered by those who piled on Representative Ilhan Omar and incited a hate mob against her until she got assassination threats now giving condolences to our community,” Sarsour tweeted Saturday morning. “What we need you to do is reflect on how you contribute to islamophobia and stop doing that.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Listen to the way this CAIR representative speaks. Is it not terrifying? He talks about the slow takeover of Muslims in Congress, even taking over the presidency.

(full article online)

Hamas-linked CAIR unveils its plan for an Islamic America


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA pays the salaries to all arrested Palestinian terrorists, irrespective of their terror group affiliations.

In some cases, the salaries paid by the PA to the terrorists are “higher than salaries of judges and doctors.” 

The PA admitted that in 2018 it paid at least 502 million shekels ($134.2 million) in salaries to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners. 

(full article online)

Abbas buys the support of Palestinians in Gaza one terrorist at a time - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Another islamic terrorist beatdown is taking place. In response to the ongoing balloon gee-had, the IDF is delivering some much needed islamic terrorist behavior modification.


 IDF STRIKES HAMAS TERROR CELL IN GAZA IN RESPONSE TO INCENDIARY BALLOONS

IDF strikes Hamas terror cell in Gaza in response to incendiary balloons

An IDF aircraft attacked a terrorist cell in the northern Gaza Strip on Tuesday evening, the IDF reported.

The strikes were targeted at the cell which earlier in the day launched incendiary balloons at Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There were patchy reports on the evening it all went down. An Egyptian delegation was meeting with Hamas officials at the time, mediating the easing of certain economic restrictions. Israeli media reported on Friday that the Egyptians were enraged. For their terrorist hosts to engage in such a reckless act was humiliating and would only exacerbate the tensions that resulted in the Strip’s economic isolation in the first place.

As reported in the daily newspaper, _Israel Hayom_, an Egyptian official thundered at Sinwar: “How far do you think you will get with this double game of yours? We are sitting here to hammer out the details of a cease-fire with Israel and behind our backs, you are authorizing your people to fire missiles at Tel Aviv?”

He then added, for good measure: “If Israel decides to launch a comprehensive military operation in Gaza, this time we won’t do a thing to stop the Israeli attack, even if the Israelis decide to dismantle your rule in Gaza by assassinating each and every one of you. While [Israel] is retaking Gaza, Egypt and its allies in the region won’t lift a finger to stop the Israeli response.”

(full article online)

Hamas Faces a Popular Revolt Against Its Governance


----------



## Hollie

OK, wait. Let me recover my composure after reading that Islamic terrorist retrogrades are acting like, you know, Islamic terrorist retrogrades. 

Gee whiz. One might almost get the impression that life inside an Islamic totalitarian dystopia may be the living hell it appears to be.

I wonder if Hamas and/ or Abbas will pay a fee to the Yahya’istan “martyrs” tortured and imprisoned ny Hamas?
*

Hamas accused of violent crackdown on Gaza protests

Gaza: Hamas accused of violent crackdown on protests - CNN











Protests began last week, when hundreds of protesters gathered in refugee camps such as Jabaliya and Deir al-Balah, and in Gaza City and Khan 

(CNN)Hamas has cracked down on popular protests in Gaza, carrying out beatings, arbitrary arrests and torture against protesters, human rights workers and journalists, Amnesty International said.

"The crackdown on freedom of expression and the use of torture in Gaza has reached alarming new levels," said Saleh Higazi, Deputy Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International. "We are sending a clear message to the Gaza authorities today that we are watching, ..... 
*


----------



## Sixties Fan

The man who killed two Israelis om Sunday was killed by the IDF on Tuesday during a firefight.

As of this writing, there are 125 comments, virtually all asking Allah to have mercy on the soul of this despicable murderer.


(full article online)

Fatah praises murderer as a "martyr"....of course ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

*Poll indicates 41% of Palestinians would vote for Hamas leader for president*

*Support for Haniyeh down from previous survey; Palestinians also split over support for two-state solution, approval of new prime minister *
By ADAM RASGONToday, 1:45 am  




Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas (left) and Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh (Flash90, SAID KHATIB/AFP)


If Palestinian presidential elections were to be held with a race between Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh, Abbas would win 51% of the vote compared to 41% for Haniyeh, while 8% said they were undecided, according to a survey published Tuesday.




“If Pal’istanian elections were to be held.....”

Arabs-Moslems really do live in some weird, alternate reality that deserves potent medication.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al-Majd, a Jordanian Nasserist newspaper, has placed an above-the-masthead headline about the heroism of the murderer of two Jews last Sunday.









 Par for the course.

Jordanian newspaper praises Palestinian murderer as "hero" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Looks like Gaza should not entertain having a Zoo ]


Forty animals including five lions are to be rescued from squalid conditions in Gaza, an animal welfare group said on Wednesday.

The animals would be taken out of a zoo in the Hamas-controlled enclave and relocated to sanctuaries in Jordan next week, the Four Paws organization said.

"For far too long, the animals of Rafah Zoo have had to live under unimaginably dreadful conditions," said Four Paws veterinarian and head of mission Amir Khalil.

(full article online)

Lions, other animals to be saved from Gaza zoo


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Fatah honors this week's terrorist murderer on Facebook: 
"Heroic Martyr Omar Abu Laila" is "the perfect person"
deserving of a "military salute" 
"Glory and eternity to the Martyrs"

"The Shabiba Movement of Fatah in Palestine accompanies to his wedding (i.e., to the 72 Virgins in Paradise) the Heroic Martyr"

Fatah branch in murderer's home district praises him as: 
"Rambo of Palestine"
"Self-sacrificing fighter"
"daring fighter"
"lion cub"*





*Fatah official about terrorist Abu Laila who murdered 2 this week*
*and murderer who killed 2 of his Israeli co-workers last year:*
*"the role models for the children"

Fatah honors this week’s terrorist murderer on Facebook - PMW Bulletins*


----------



## Hollie

It seens that the islamic terrorist enclave of Hamas'istan is eating itself alive. 

Really anxious to see the tire burning gee-had erupt on the streets. I'm curious to see if Hamas would call their Iranian masters for milirary assistance to put down the riots. 

It would be interesting to see the spectacle of Shia Iranian squads assisting the Sunni Arabs-Moslems in Hamas delivering a beat-down to Sunni Arab-Moslem rioters.  



HAMAS TARGETS MORE THAN 70 JOURNALISTS IN ANTI-PROTEST MEASURES
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.jpos...s-targets-more-than-70-journalists-584183/amp
_




Hamas Chief Ismail Haniyeh gestures as he speaks during a rally marking the 31st anniversary of Hamas' founding, in Gaza City December 16, 2018. (photo credit:" IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
Gaza journalist: "They beat me with various types of clubs and sticks."
More than 70 Palestinian journalists have been targeted by Hamas during the recent protests against economic hardship in the Gaza Strip, the Palestinian Journalists Syndicate said on Thursday.

Mohammed Al-Lahham, as senior official with the syndicate, said during a press conference in Ramallah that Hamas’s actions were tantamount to “crimes.” He said he believed that the number of journalists who were arrested, beaten or summoned for interrogation by Hamas security forces in the past week was much higher than the figures published thus far.

Several Palestinian journalists who fell victim to Hamas’s tough security measures have refused to have their names published by the Ramallah-based syndicate out of fear of being punished by Hamas, the official revealed.

_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas is now accusing the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Fatah of exploiting the economic crisis in the Gaza Strip to call on Palestinians to overthrow the Hamas regime. Fatah, for its part, is accusing the "dark forces" of Hamas of acting on orders from outside parties to establish a separate Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip.


The US administration says it will publish its long-awaited plan for peace in the Middle East, known as the "Deal of the Century," after the general elections in Israel on April 9. Perhaps it would be a good idea if the US administration came up with a plan to make peace between Palestinians and Palestinians before attempting to make peace between the Palestinians and Israel.


What is clear, meanwhile, is that the Fatah and Hamas leaders are more interested in warring with each other than improving the living conditions of their people. The two groups have already rejected the upcoming "Deal of the Century": for now, that is the only deal they seem ready to make.
(full article online)

Palestinians: The Other Peace Deal


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Hamas is taking time out from their busy schedule directed at torture, beating and arrests of Arabs-Moslems to spend some quality time with IDF tank shells.


And Allah knows best.

IDF TANK SHELLS A HAMAS OUTPOST IN RESPONSE TO CLASHES

IDF tank shells a Hamas outpost in response to clashes

An IDF tank shelled a Hamas outpost south of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, IDF spokesperson reported, the shelling was in response to intense clashes and incendiary balloons.


----------



## Hollie

*Gaza rights groups denounce Hamas crackdown on protests*

*Gaza rights groups denounce Hamas crackdown on protests
*
Protesters say Hamas forces attacked them with batons while protesting against dire living conditions in Gaza Strip.



I don't quite believe the "dire living conditions in Gaza", meme.

Let's acknowledge that Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza are the beneficiaries of a dedicated UN sponsored welfare agency. Literally billions of dollars have been showered upon these people so lets take the "dire living conditions in Gaza" as an excuse for yet more accommodation of an islamic terrorist welfare fraud.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. There are tensions brewing between the two, competing mini-caliphates in the wondrous social order sometimes called the "State of Pal'istan" Dysfunction. 

I think Mahmoud is feeling quite full of himself knowing he has a "presidential jet" and Yahya Sinwar doesn't. 

*Abbas Slams Hamas Over Gaza Attack, Says Group Doomed to 'Trash Can of History'*

*Abbas Slams Hamas Over Gaza Attack, Says Group Doomed to 'Trash Can of History'*

Long-running tensions between the two main Palestinian political parties, Fatah, chaired by Abbas, and Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, escalated this week after a Fatah spokesman in Gaza was seriously injured, allegedly by Hamas members.

Fatah Chairman and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has blasted Hamas over Monday's attack on Fatah Gaza spokesman Atef Abu Seif.

"Hamas, which carried out a coup in Gaza, will enter the trash can of history. The Palestinian people will not forgive Hamas for its actions," Abbas said, according to Arutz Sheva.

Hamas denied any involvement in the attack on Seif, who was beaten by a group of men outside his home on Monday, with Gaza's interior ministry promising an investigation into the incident. Following the incident, Fatah deputy chairman Mahmoud Aloul accused Hamas of an 'assassination attempt' against Seif. The attack reportedly took place against the backdrop of broader protests in Gaza this week over rising prices.


----------



## Hollie

Angry Mahmoud had some harsh words for the competing Islamic terrorist franchise in Yahya’istan. 

Muhammud (swish), hated dogs so calling the Hamas contingent of _Islamic_ _Terrorism_ _Intl_. _Inc_., “dogs” is a real slur. 


"PA President Abbas Curses Hamas "Dogs" during Hospital Visit to Fatah Official Beaten Up in Gaza" 

_During a Ramallah hospital visit to Fatah Gaza spokesman Atef Abu Saif, PA President Mahmoud Abbas cursed the Hamas "dogs" who allegedly beat him up in Gaza, saying that Hamas "should be thrown into the garbage bin of history." The visit was posted on Abbas' YouTube channel on March 20, 2019._


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Somehow, I don’t think the Iranian Mullocrats are going to appreciate the Fatah ingrates hurling aspersions at their flunkies in Hamas occupied Gaza’istan. 

"Fatah Central Committee Member Jamal Muhaisen: Hamas Is ISIS in Palestine"

Fatah Central Committee Member Jamal Muhaisen said that Hamas is a terrorist movement and that even if it were to rehabilitate the people who were imprisoned or had their arms or legs broken, it would return to its old ways within a matter of months. In a TV interview against the backdrop of the violent crackdown on the economic protests in Gaza, Muhaisen called Hamas "ISIS in Palestine." The interview aired on the official PA TV channel on March 19, 2019. 




Oh, and remember we’re told that the conflicts, internecine wars and religious hatreds separating the various tribes of Islamism throughout the Islamic Middle East are all the fault of Israel and the Great Satan. 

What an idyllic place the Middle East would be if only israel didn’t exist.


----------



## Hollie

*“*Doctor*” *Al seems a bit perturbed with the goings-on regarding the rival welfare fraud recipients in Gaza and the West Bank. Who, other than Arabs-Moslems, are responsible for Islamic terrorist bullying, threats, and repression when Islamic terrorist retrogrades are so often the norm in the Islamic Middle East.


"Palestinian Journalist Nasser Al-Laham Slams Hamas and Fatah Gov'ts: We Are Worse than the Occupation"

_Dr. Nasser Al-Laham, editor-in-chief of the Palestinian Authority's Maan News Agency, criticized both Hamas and Fatah in the wake of the Hamas crackdown on protesters in Gaza, saying: "the governments have gone berserk." Al-Laham asked: "What have we adopted from the Arab countries? Prison cells? Torture? Burn marks?" and said: "In some things, we are worse than the occupation." In the TV interview, which was posted on the Maan News YouTube channel on March 16, he asked: "Is this the kind of homeland we want?" and called upon Palestinians to "take [to the streets] and chant: No to the homeland!" Al-Laham, who is Mayadeen TV's reporter in the West Bank, is a critic of the Palestinian Authority._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas security forces have beaten protesters, and rights group has reported injuries including bone fractures; official declines to explain why ministry has not published data

(full article online)

Hamas-run ministry fails to report injuries connected to internal Gaza protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

*This Ongoing War* says: They call her a Palestinian but the record shows she was born in Jordan, was educated there right up until the point where she decided to cross the Jordan River and pursue journalism studies at a Palestinian Arab university, and lives there today with the man she married there seven years ago ["*22-Jun-12: A wedding and what came before it*"]. Calling the massacre of Jewish customers (Tamimi says she went looking for Jews) "_a martyrdom operation_" is a cognitive warfare strategy. _Tamimi is no martyr _and has made clear repeatedly that her goal was murder - the murder of Israeli children. The weapon she planted at Sbarro to achieve her hideous aim was *a human bomb* - a young religious fanatic with an explosive-laden guitar case on his back; at the critical moment, he blew up the guitar case, himself, the Sbarro pizzeria and many unarmed, unsuspecting humans. She brought him from Ramallah, accompanying him through the Israeli security checkpoint and along the streets of central Jerusalem. Neither he nor she sought to commit suicide but to kill people. The reference to "1,600 years of imprisonment" is inaccurate: she was serving 16 concurrent terms of life imprisonment with a strong judicial recommendation that she never be paroled or otherwise released. In the event, she was in prison for barely 8 years after being sentenced.

-----
*This Ongoing War* says: Tamimi, a TV reporter and far from stupid, has a solid grasp of what Hitler and Goebbels meant by the *Big Lie* and how to use it. She's drunk deeply at the well of classic antisemitic tropes and "knows" that in America, it's the Zionists who are in charge and as a consequence Americans don't know how to deal with terrorists who set out to murder large numbers of innocents. If America ever wants to take advice from an Islamist zealot who brings a deep familiarity with murder and lethal bigotry, Mrs Tamimi will be a leading candidate.


Q. How do you evaluate the Moroccan position, be it the official or popular position towards the Palestinian resistance?

I always look to the popular position in any country. When speaking about Morocco, it is a valuable position and we truly appreciate it...The article goes on but from this point Tamimi devotes herself, speaking to a Moroccan news site, to praising Morocco. She appreciates their support of the "resistance" in Gaza (this means Hamas) and of Khaled Mashal (who used to run Hamas). But for all her high regard for them, she doesn't support Morocco's relatively constructive ties with "the Zionist entity".

The real take-away here is her toxic influence. This dedicated murderer, now living free as a bird, not in hiding, not on the run, in the capital of an Arab kingdom reckoned to be a US ally, has standing, celebrity and access to the media. What Tamimi says in her explosive region of the world has the potent and quickly-out-of-control flammable impact of a lit match in a field of tinder-dry brush.

And even though much of what she has to say is plainly distorted, dishonest and provocative, we have not yet seen even a single instance where her appearance in the Arabic-language media includes criticism or even any serious analysis of the woman, her narrative or her views.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 21-Mar-19: The Sbarro Massacre mastermind worries she isn't getting enough sympathy


----------



## Hollie

The murderous acts by Arabs-Moslems last week was a cause for celebration that included the usual passing around of sweets. 

It just reinforces to me that a Cult, so obsessed with killing and the celebration of lawlessness, has no place in modern society.


"Sweets Being Distributed in Khan Yunis in Celebration of West Bank Terror Attack" 

A video is the link, above.

_On March 18, 2019, Gaza-based Shehab News Agency (Gaza) released a video of sweets being distributed in Khan Yunis in celebration of the March 17 terror attack at Ariel Junction in the West Bank that took the lives of two Israelis._


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic Settler Colonial Project is preemptively claiming another conquest. 

A “Pal’istanian” cleric is announcing the conquest of France. Super!

Although, the learned cleric doesn’t tell us that the Islamic gee-had of France will transform that nation into what: just another war zone of tribal, religious and ethnic hatreds?

Does the planet really need warring mini-caliphates exported from Islamic backwaters?

"Palestinian Cleric Abu Taqi Al-Din Al-Dari at Al-Aqsa Mosque: France Will Become an Islamic Country Through Jihad; Entire World Will Be Subject to Islamic Rule" 

Palestinian cleric Abu Taqi Al-Din Al-Dari said in an Al-Aqsa Mosque address that was uploaded to the Internet on March 12, 2019 that young people in Germany and France do not value marriage as much as Muslims do, but that this is not the reason that France will become an Islamic country. Rather, he explained, France will become an Islamic country through Jihad, since Muslims must have a country that will bring Islam’s guidance and message to the West. He gave examples of times in history when countries in the West and Asia were ruled by the Ottoman Empire, which he described as an Islamic state, and he said that the Islamic nation is capable of “returning to its former self” and spreading Islam. Sheik Taqi Al-Din added that the entire world will be subject to the rule of Islam in one of three ways: People will either convert to Islam, be forced to pay the _jizya_ poll tax, or be fought against for the sake of Allah.

_“People will either convert to Islam, be forced to pay the jizya poll tax, or be fought against for the sake of Allah.”
_

While you might think that our friend Abu is a fascist, a dangerous Islamic supremacist or just a cult clone, Abu is really just a pious Moslem who knows his Korans and his sunnah and literally believes that the life and times of Muhammud (swish), are the perfect examples for all time and for all Moslems. _ 







_


----------



## Hollie

Can’t we send more welfare dollars to those 
_Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians ™️






_


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to sources in the Gaza Strip, hundreds of Palestinians were detained by Hamas security forces between Thursday and Sunday for their role in the protests. Among those taken into custody were journalists, human rights activists and Fatah members. Scores of Palestinians were wounded and hospitalized after being beaten by Hamas security officers and militiamen.

By Sunday, it seemed that Hamas had succeeded in crushing the protests. The tough measures that Hamas took against the protesters and those believed to be behind the “We Want to Live” campaign appear, for now, to have achieved their goal. The protesters, however, say they are determined to continue their demonstrations. Earlier this week, they published a statement calling for a two-day general strike in the Gaza Strip. They also called on Palestinians to gather at public squares to protest not only economic hardship, but also Hamas’s repressive measures against the demonstrators and other Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

THE HAMAS effort to suppress the protests has not only been limited to breaking the bones of protesters and arbitrary arrests. To discredit the protests, Hamas also began talking about a Fatah-led conspiracy aimed at staging a coup in the Gaza Strip. Ironically, Hamas’s charge was backed by the rhetoric of senior Fatah officials, who rushed to embrace the protests, describing them as a revolt against Hamas.

Hamas also sent thousands of its supporters to the streets to protest against Abbas and the sanctions he imposed on the Gaza Strip nearly two years ago. This was Hamas’s way of reminding Palestinians that it’s Abbas, and not Hamas, who bears responsibility for the deteriorating economic conditions.

Hamas is now trying to portray the protests as part of a “conspiracy” by Abbas and Fatah to instigate chaos and unrest in the Gaza Strip. “Hamas has thwarted a Palestinian Authority-sponsored scheme to set off unrest in the Gaza Strip,” said a Hamas official. He and several Hamas officials claimed that the West Bank-based Palestinian General Intelligence Service, headed by Majed Faraj, was the main party behind the alleged plot.

(full article online)

What’s happening in Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The real story of 'Nakba Day' that the Arabs are hiding


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

PA to pay terrorists in full while cutting pay for other employees - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Gaza. Blast from the Past. The more things change...


----------



## Hollie

I’m afraid that playing nice in the sandbox is not working well for the competing, Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates. The Islamic terrorists within Hamas are in a bit of a media war as they trade insults with the Islamic terrorists in Fatah.

At some point, Abbas may play the Shia card (accusing Hamas of being lackeys for the Iranian Mullocrats), and hurl that insult at Hamas.

It’s a bit like the Bloods and Crips, with Korans.


*Hamas accuses Abbas of 'aiding the occupation'*

Hamas accuses Abbas of 'aiding the occupation'

Hamas spokesman blasts PA chairman Abbas for telling American students he seeks negotiations with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic totalitarian fear societies maintain at least a semblance of order through repression and intimidation. 

Islamics got exactly what they wanted by putting Hamas into power. 

Now they’re getting what they deserve. 



Hamas Crackdown on Gaza Protests Instills Fear

*Hamas Crackdown on Gaza Protests Instills Fear*

Hamas security forces, seen in December, brutally crushed peaceful protests in Gaza this month.CreditIbraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters




Image


----------



## Hollie

Those Poor, Oppressed Arab-Moslem Terrorists. Can’t we just give them more welfare fraud money?


----------



## Hollie

Listen up, Infidels. The Hamas affiliate of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc._
is having a fund raising drive. 

See, it really does prove that money for the islamic gee-had doesnt just fall off of the kuffar tree. 

*Hamas Wants More Bitcoin Donations, After Raising $2,500 the Last Time*

*Hamas Wants More Bitcoin Donations, After Raising $2,500 the Last Time*
_



_
Don't these Dark Ages retrogtades deserve your Bitcoin's?


----------



## Hollie

Sometime soon, Israel may want to respond to islamic terrorist attacks with some real _disproportionate_ islamic terrorist beatdown. 

The Hamas' 'nighttime unit' (nothing more than Iranian backed flunkies), a disposable commodity for the Mullocrats, should become the former, and now very as'sploded, balloon flunkies.  

*Israel Shells Hamas Military Posts in Gaza After Explosives Thrown Over Fence*

*Israel shells Hamas military posts in Gaza after explosives thrown over fence*

Hamas' 'nighttime unit' announced Saturday that it plans to ramp up its activities at the fence following the killing of two Palestinians by Israeli fire in protests Friday

Yaniv Kubovich
24.03.2019 | 22:47
IDF tanks shelled Hamas military posts in Gaza on Sunday evening after explosive devices were thrown and incendiary balloons were launched across the border throughout the evening, the military said.


----------



## Hollie

The wondrous islamic social order.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The best summary I've seen of possible reasons for last night's attack comes from Hamodia:
 For the second time in under two weeks, Hamas is claiming that the rocket fire to central Israel early Monday was a “mistake.” Hamas made the same claim ten days ago, when two rockets were fired at the Tel Aviv area. The IDF rejected that explanation, saying that it held Hamas responsible for the rocket fire. Meanwhile, Islamic Jihad warned Israel not to retaliate for the attack.

Yediot Acharonot said Monday that after the rocket fired from Gaza hit a house in the town of Mishmeret in the Sharon region, north of Tel Aviv, Hamas contacted Egypt, telling officials that the rocket had been fired in error. Seven people, including an infant, were injured in the attack, with the family’s home sustaining heavy damage. Several other neighboring houses were damaged as well.

Egypt transferred the message to Israel, but in a statement, the IDF said it was not accepting the terror group’s excuse, and that it held Hamas responsible for the attack. The IDF is sending two divisions to the Gaza border area, its spokesperson said, and was conducting a limited call-up of reserves.

A report on Kan News said that top terrorists in Hamas and Islamic Jihad had gone into hiding, anticipating a heavy Israeli response. Meanwhile, Islamic Jihad warned Israel not to retaliate at all, because any retaliation would be met by rocket attacks “deep in the territory of Israel. The leadership of Israel knows we will strike back with power to such attacks,” the terror group said.

Groups allied with Islamic Jihad said that the attack was due to retaliation by the Prisons Service against terrorists who had attacked and injured Israeli guards in Ketziot Prison Sunday night.

(full article online)

Hamas claims another "mistake" in rocket fire that injured 7 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This morning Hamas launched a missile into Israel at a town north of Tel Aviv. Seven Israelis were injured, two of them seriously. 

What is Hamas hoping to gain by firing into Israel's population centers? 

According to Fatah, Hamas has failed in its administration of the Gaza Strip and all of Hamas' violence in recent months against Israel, including the firing of two missiles 10 days ago towards Tel Aviv, has been intended to distract the Palestinian population from Hamas' failure to provide for the Palestinian population. Fatah's spokesman Osama Al-Qawasmi explained why Hamas fired missiles towards Tel Aviv as follows:

"Launching missiles in order to put down the uprising of the starving is an unacceptable act, and is overt and obvious to all." 
[Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 16, 2019]

The Palestinian Authority and Fatah have repeatedly condemned Hamas' response to the recent protests in the Gaza Strip by accusing it of human rights abuses against Palestinians including against Palestinian children. Official PA TV and Fatah's Facebook page both presented pictures of injured Palestinian children who they claimed were beaten by Hamas:

(full article online)

Hamas fights Fatah by launching missiles at Israelis  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Well gee whiz. It looks like the competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates are picking up where they left off after their late 2000’s civil war. 

What’s the big deal with a little torture between Islamic terrorist rivals?

It just confirms again that Israel is the single reason why the Islamic terrorist Middle East is not at the forefront of culture and advancement of the human condition. 
*


FATAH: HAMAS BRUTALLY TORTURING OUR MEN IN GAZA*

Fatah: Hamas brutally torturing our men in Gaza

The West Bank-based Palestinian Fatah faction on Saturday accused Hamas of torturing Fatah members in the Gaza Strip.

Fatah officials said at least 100 of their members were detained by Hamas in the past week. The crackdown, according to the officials, came in response to demonstrations organized by Fatah to express support for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.




Let’s hope these fine examples of moslem’dom can find metal bars, clubs, blow torches and power drills to settle their differences like the fine folks they are.


----------



## Hollie

Just another Mahmoud.


"Senior Fatah Official Mahmoud Al-Aloul Praises Murderer of Two Israelis: We Are Proud; He Exercised the Choice of the People" 


*Senior Fatah Official Mahmoud Al-Aloul Praises Murderer of Two Israelis: We Are Proud; He Exercised the Choice of the People *

_In a video that was uploaded to the Fatah movement's Facebook page on March 23, 2019, Fatah Central Committee Deputy Chairman Mahmoud Al-Aloul praised Omar Abu Laila, the Palestinian terrorist who killed two Israelis at Ariel Junction in the West Bank on March 17, 2019 and who was killed by Israeli forces two days later. Al-Aloul said that the name "Omar Abu Laila" has had significance for Fatah since its beginning and added: "This young man exercised the choice of the people [that] represents… all the youth of Palestine."_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Who owns Hamas and other terror groups in Gaza?   Iran.  Or is it?   ]

After some Hamas officials claimed a rocket attack on central Israel early Monday morning which injured seven had been ‘accidental’ or caused by ‘bad weather’, senior officials in the Gaza-based terror organization and Egypt now say that the attack was intentional – and carried out at the behest of Iran, with the intention of altering the outcome of Israel’s upcoming general election.

A senior Hamas official, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed to _Israel Hayom_ Tuesday that the rocket which struck the Wolf family home in the town of Mishmeret in central Israel Monday and injured seven Israelis had been fired at the urging of Tehran.


The Hamas official claimed that Iran had “gone over the heads” of Hamas’ leadership, directly ordering a cell operating out of the Gaza Strip to carry out the attack. The cell has been identified as part of the Islamic Jihad organization, a rival terrorist group which operates in the Gaza Strip and Judea and Samaria.

(full article online)

Hamas leader: Iran ordered rocket attack, aimed to hurt Netanyahu in election


----------



## Sixties Fan

A senior Israeli official on the prime minister's plane referred to the wave of IDF attacks in Gaza in response to the recent rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza, emphasizing that "There is no agreement on a ceasefire, we are prepared to do even more."

During the flight, Netanyahu was in constant contact with IDF Chief of Staff Aviv Kochavi. According to the official, the order given to the chief of staff was to continue attacking, and offices, factories and senior Hamas officials' bureaus were attacked, among other things. He called the attacks "The hardest hits since Operation Protective Edge. We attacked last, and they did not respond."

(full article online)

Senior Israeli official: 'There is no ceasefire, we're ready to do even more'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The area in question is in Area B, however it was agreed in the Oslo Accords that it would serve as a nature reserve. The Civil Administration is responsible for enforcement of this agreement, however it has failed to do so and the illegal quarry has encroached on land dedicated to the nature reserve and harmed the surrounding environment.

In total, the illegal quarry in Nachal Arugot is spread over 13.7 dunam (3.38 acres), including dozens of mining sites along the Arugot River. The quarrying is done throughout the day and late at night. Materials are put on trucks and taken via the Allenby Bridge to Jordan. There, the stone is sold as ‘Jerusalem Stone’ and the quarries themselves are referred to as ‘Al Marbel Jerusalem Stone.’

In addition, at the Hatzatzon River nearby, the Palestinian Authority attempted to establish a cement factory but was thwarted by the Harshayida Tribe of the Bedouin. The factory would have strongly polluted the area due to the chemicals used with the byproducts draining into the Dead Sea. While this plan did not come to fruition, it demonstrates the goals of the Palestinian Authority and their clear disregard of the environment.

(full article online)

Illegal quarry in Nachal Arugot Nature Reserve in Judean Desert


----------



## Sixties Fan

In telephone interviews with The Jerusalem Post, residents of the Gaza Strip said that they were extremely worried that another war with Israel would lead to a “major catastrophe.”


They said that many residents believe that Hamas was deliberately provoking so as to divert attention from its problems at home.


Hamas has faced sharp criticism from many Palestinians for its brutal crackdown on Gazans who took to the streets to protest the high cost of living and soaring unemployment in the coastal enclave.


“A war with Israel will help Hamas divert attention from the growing anger towards its repressive measures,” said Ibrahim Abu al-Naja, a social worker from Gaza City. “The Hamas leaders are holding our people hostage. Most people here don’t want another war.”


Palestinian political analyst Majdi Hamdan said that the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip were again paying a heavy price for the “foolish actions and policies” of the Hamas rulers.

(full article online)

Gazans: Hamas dragging us into war


----------



## ph3iron

toastman said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
Click to expand...


Strange how the Palestinians who had lived there for 2000 years and supported us in WWII got screwed by Rothschild, the Brit banker.
I'm waiting for the Romans to lay claim to the UK


----------



## ph3iron

ph3iron said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Strange how the Palestinians who had lived there for 2000 years and supported us in WWII got screwed by Rothschild, the Brit banker.
> I'm waiting for the Romans to lay claim to the UK
Click to expand...


Palestinians, Ungrateful buggers


----------



## Sixties Fan

ph3iron said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Strange how the Palestinians who had lived there for 2000 years and supported us in WWII got screwed by Rothschild, the Brit banker.
> I'm waiting for the Romans to lay claim to the UK
Click to expand...

Strange how none of your post makes any historical sense.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week Omar Abu Leila murdered Rabbi Achiad Ettinger, father of 12 and Sgt. Gal Keidan in cold blood. Today they named a street after the murderer in Abwein Village. This is what a society with a fetish for murder looks like, agents.


The Mossad on Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

The alarm sounded only fifteen minutes after the IDF issued an official announcement of a return to routine and the lifting of all restrictions imposed on the residents of the Gaza vicinity and Netivot, Ofakim, Ashkelon, Merhavim, Ashkelon, and Bnei Shimon.

(full article online)

Rocket fired at Israel despite cease-fire claims


----------



## Hollie

Aww, those _Poor, Impoverished Arabs-Moslems™️
_
Can’t we just give them more welfare fraud money?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> Aww, those _Poor, Impoverished Arabs-Moslems™️
> _
> Can’t we just give them more welfare fraud money?


Is Israel bombing the wrong areas?


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, those _Poor, Impoverished Arabs-Moslems™️
> _
> Can’t we just give them more welfare fraud money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel bombing the wrong areas?
Click to expand...


They keep the west of Gaza for the rich, and fire almost exclusively from the east, the destruction seen on all those photos on TV during the confrontations, are from a handful of the same neighborhoods in the east which kept as the only media setup the rich oligarchs allow, and presented as the only Gaza in all western propaganda and media outlets.


----------



## Hollie

Those Poor, Oppressed Arabs-Moslems need more welfare dollars to spend at the gold markets. Can't you help?


----------



## Hollie

Such is the notion of an islamic terrorist cease fire. Israel is expectrd to excuse an occasional rocket. 



*Israel-Hamas cross-border fighting renews after lull*



By Nidal al-Mughrabi and Maayan Lubell
ReutersMarch 26, 2019, 6:15 PM EDT

GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Palestinian militants fired rockets from Gaza into Israel on Tuesday, drawing retaliatory air strikes and breaking a day-long lull in cross-border fighting between Israel and Hamas that could impact an Israeli election two weeks away.

The biggest Israeli-Palestinian escalation in months, which began on Monday with the longest-range Palestinian rocket attack to cause casualties in Israel in five years, had eased after Egyptian mediation.


----------



## Hollie

The IDF responds to islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

You know, I've been paciently waiting for a specific turn of events in Israel for over a year now...



Hollie said:


> The IDF responds to islamic terrorist attacks.


*(QUESTION)*

Israel is known to have some crafty, very crafty, mechical, electrical/electronic and aerospace engineers.  When I was in college, there were all sorts of very sophisticate pranks and mischievous jokes designed and assembled -- just on a lark.

I know that Israels undergrad population is somewhat more serious than I was at The Ohio State University, but I am willing to bet that a coalition of engineering students _(and a couple of creative writing Literature student - for inspiration)_ could come together and build the "Mother - of - All - Kites." 

Maybe a huge battle kite _(or an armada of smaller kites)_ that glides into Gaza and releases a bunch of small gliders or water balloons or something (maybe even candy). What is the favorite candy for children in the Gaza Strip.

In any event, I'm very sure that Israel can come-up with something better.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The alarm sounded only fifteen minutes after the IDF issued an official announcement of a return to routine and the lifting of all restrictions imposed on the residents of the Gaza vicinity and Netivot, Ofakim, Ashkelon, Merhavim, Ashkelon, and Bnei Shimon.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rocket fired at Israel despite cease-fire claims


What ceasefire?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The alarm sounded only fifteen minutes after the IDF issued an official announcement of a return to routine and the lifting of all restrictions imposed on the residents of the Gaza vicinity and Netivot, Ofakim, Ashkelon, Merhavim, Ashkelon, and Bnei Shimon.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rocket fired at Israel despite cease-fire claims
> 
> 
> 
> What ceasefire?
Click to expand...


Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> You know, I've been paciently waiting for a specific turn of events in Israel for over a year now...
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF responds to islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Israel is known to have some crafty, very crafty, mechical, electrical/electronic and aerospace engineers.  When I was in college, there were all sorts of very sophisticate pranks and mischievous jokes designed and assembled -- just on a lark.
> 
> I know that Israels undergrad population is somewhat more serious than I was at The Ohio State University, but I am willing to bet that a coalition of engineering students _(and a couple of creative writing Literature student - for inspiration)_ could come together and build the "Mother - of - All - Kites."
> 
> Maybe a huge battle kite _(or an armada of smaller kites)_ that glides into Gaza and releases a bunch of small gliders or water balloons or something (maybe even candy). What is the favorite candy for children in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> In any event, I'm very sure that Israel can come-up with something better.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I was thinking along the lines of a cluster bomb that releases dozens of flaming kites.


----------



## Hollie

It's difficult to know if this is true but if so, the iranian Mullocrats must be feeling quite full of themselves. 

The Shia are viewed as a heretical sect by the majority Sunni. The mullahs in a positon to stoke a shooting conflict between the Sunni and Israel while they dictate orders the their Hamas flunkies would be quite an accomplishment. 


HAMAS OFFICIAL: IRAN ORDERED ROCKET ATTACK ON CENTRAL ISRAEL - REPORT

Hamas official: Iran ordered rocket attack on central Israel - report

A senior Hamas official, speaking anonymously to _Israel Hayom_ on Tuesday, claimed that the rocket which struck a moshav in central Israel on Monday was ordered by Iran.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Spokesperson publishes footage of riots near Bethlehem in which PA medics are seen taking off medical uniforms and throwing stones.

(full article online)

Watch: Medic or terrorist?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arguing that “unity is not uniformity,” Sarsour said that she’s “cool with” people who don’t share her views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict if she can work with them on other issues.

“It doesn’t matter to me who you are,” she said. “Come to the aid of people who are the most broken in our country, and that’s the thing that I never just understood. I never went to a movement and asked people to fill out a form and say, ‘Please tell me all your political views.’ I mean, that’s not how it works.”

But that’s exactly what she did.

Less than three years ago, Sarsour — who believes “nothing is creepier than Zionism” — told an American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) conference that the fight against what she called a “Muslim registry” didn’t have room for people who don’t support anti-Israel campaigns.

Here’s what she said:

“We have limits to the type of friendships that we’re looking for right now,” and those limits involve people who “have been steadfast, courageous, have been standing up and protecting their own communities, those who have taken the risk to stand up and say — we are with the Palestinian people, we unequivocally support BDS [boycotting, divesting from, and sanctioning Israel] when it comes to Palestinian human rights and have been attacked viciously by the very people who are telling you that they’re about to stand on the front line of the Muslim registry program.”

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour’s NYU Makeover


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists in Suits report - the most dangerous threat to the BDS movement.


----------



## Hollie

Such heroes. 

I suppose the Hamas leaders were busy counting their billion dollar fortunes and left the gee-had to others.



*Hamas leader appears in public as fighting with Israel tails off*

*Hamas leader appears in public as fighting with Israel tails off | Reuters
*

GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The leader of the militant Islamist group Hamas viewed the rubble of his bombed office in Gaza on Wednesday, appearing in public as an uneasy calm took hold after two days of cross-border Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli air strikes.


----------



## Hollie

Anybody home at the Death Cult office?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Terrorists in Suits report - the most dangerous threat to the BDS movement.


More of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists in Suits report - the most dangerous threat to the BDS movement.
> 
> 
> 
> More of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

From the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center:

 Instructions were posted to a Hamas forum regarding the terminology that should be used in the media. According to the instructions, media workers should avoid the use of terminology that indicates a recognition of the existence of Israel (the "Zionist entity"); care should taken to designate all sites attacked by Israel as "civilian targets" and not as military targets; the cities in Israel which are attacked should be referred to as occupied Palestinian territories, and not as cities; and there is no such thing as "the residents of Israel's south" because [the Israelis] are thieves who took the Palestinian lands by force.The specific instructions from one of Paldf.net's administrators, apparently relaying instructions from Hamas, are:
----------
The specific instructions from one of Paldf.net's administrators, apparently relaying instructions from Hamas, are:

 Reminder to members [i.e., forum members]:
When you claim that the Zionist response is not appropriate for a state, by implication you recognize the [Zionist] entity as a state.
There are no civilian and military targets in the Gaza Strip, all the sites the enemy [i.e., Israel] attacks are civilian. The enemy is the aggressor and an occupier, while the resistance defends its people and its right.
The resistance [i.e., Hamas and the other terrorist organizations] attacks our [Palestinian] occupied lands and not Israeli cities.
There is no such thing as "the residents of the south" , because they are thieves [who took the Palestinian lands by force] and will remain thieves.
--------
He also wrote this:
 If an escalation takes place, I hope that we will not lose sight of the media war and global opinion.
Must use all means of modern communication and expose the Zionist criminality
1 - Unification of the hashtags of Twitter
2 - Translation of tweets in all languages
3 - Use of the term terrorism to describe the enemy
4 - Assertion that the resistance is a reaction to the occupation and siege
5 - The dissemination of pictures and videos from the archives and statistics of the number of martyrs, wounded and prisoners and of destroyed houses


This is more sophisticated than most hasbara is.

(full article online)

Hamas instructs its media how to report on any fighting ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Erekat claimed that Trump's move would increase violence, chaos, extremism and bloodshed.

He then railed against Trump's  "disregard for the dignity of the Arab people" which he says has reached an unprecedented level. "The Arab countries are being treated in an unacceptable manner. The dignity of the people can not be measured by the balance of real estate traders and deal makers. "

In other words, Saeb Erekat is defending the "dignity" of Syria, a country that has killed more Palestinians in the past eight years than Israel has. By saying that the Golan is Israeli territory, Erekat is aggrieved for the tender feelings of a Syrian regime that has killed a half million of his fellow Arabs.

This is what the honor/shame dynamic looks like. Arabs might fight each other constantly, but their dignity must be upheld to the Western world no matter what. As bad as treat each other, Arabs are still entitled to more respect and "dignity" than any non-Arab is.

(full article online)

PLO's Saeb Erekat defends Syria's "dignity" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Making the Death Cult proud.

"Senior Fatah Official Mahmoud Al-Aloul Praises Terrorist: We Are Proud; He Exercised the Choice of the People"

In a video that was uploaded to the Fatah movement's Facebook page on March 23, 2019, Fatah Central Committee Deputy Chairman Mahmoud Al-Aloul praised Omar Abu Laila, the Palestinian terrorist who killed a soldier and a civilian at Ariel Junction in the West Bank on March 17, 2019 and who was killed by Israeli forces two days later. Al-Aloul said that the name "Omar Abu Laila" has had significance for Fatah since its beginning and added: "This young man exercised the choice of the people [that] represents… all the youth of Palestine."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Children are innocent – including Palestinian Arab children. That is, until they are taught to hate, murder, and blow themselves up. This Fatah official explains how in their world, terrorists are the role models for children. In other cultures, heroes are those who have given, built, and loved. Not those who have taken life, destroyed, and hated. But in the culture of many Palestinian Arabs, the heroes are the terrorists.

The UN should be holding an emergency meeting about this! Terrorists as role models? That is a frightening culture! But they are too busy condemning Israel for…nothing. They are too busy ignoring the real violators of human rights. How can the UN ignore the fact that Palestinian Arab children are going up with murderers as their heroes and role models? That is just child abuse!

(full article online)

Fatah official reveals who the heroes are for Palestinian Arab children


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.

To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:

"*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"

The sports festival was held at the Beitunia Upper Elementary School for Girls and participating girls wore shirts featuring the image of the murderer and the text "Dalal Mughrabi Festival": 





[Facebook page of the Beitunia Upper Elementary School for Girls, 
March 13, 2019]

PA officials were also present at the festival honoring murderer Mughrabi, among them Bassem Erekat, director of the district's Education Directorate , which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, and Ribhi Dawla, mayor of Beitunia, where the festival was held. In addition, the District Governor of Ramallah and El-Bireh Dr. Laila Ghannam spoke at the event, stating that Palestinian children "are determined to continue on the path." Ghannam also praised Palestinian women for having "brought children into the world, fought, and built glory that will not be erased" - indicating that murderer Mughrabi had created lasting "glory" with her attack killing 37:

(full article online)

PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.
> 
> To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:
> 
> "*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"
> 
> The sports festival was held at the Beitunia Upper Elementary School for Girls and participating girls wore shirts featuring the image of the murderer and the text "Dalal Mughrabi Festival":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Facebook page of the Beitunia Upper Elementary School for Girls,
> March 13, 2019]
> 
> PA officials were also present at the festival honoring murderer Mughrabi, among them Bassem Erekat, director of the district's Education Directorate , which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, and Ribhi Dawla, mayor of Beitunia, where the festival was held. In addition, the District Governor of Ramallah and El-Bireh Dr. Laila Ghannam spoke at the event, stating that Palestinian children "are determined to continue on the path." Ghannam also praised Palestinian women for having "brought children into the world, fought, and built glory that will not be erased" - indicating that murderer Mughrabi had created lasting "glory" with her attack killing 37:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins


Every post is a smear.


----------



## Hollie

Time for the islamic terrorists in Hamas to cash some welfare checks.


NETANYAHU: ISRAEL DESTROYED MAJOR HAMAS INSTALLATIONS
By HERB KEINON
_




Speaking via satellite feed from Israel, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addresses AIPAC in Washington, U.S., March 26, 2019. (photo credit:" KEVIN LAMARQUE/REUTERS)
Netanyahu chides reporters for not spending more time on US Golan decision

WASHINGTON – Israel destroyed “major Hamas terrorist installations on a scale not seen since the end of the military operation in Gaza four years ago,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Tuesday, in a speech from Tel Aviv to the AIPAC conference here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.jpos...estroyed-major-Hamas-installations-584789/amp_


----------



## Hollie

Comedy gold.


*Hamas chief emerges from hiding in Gaza, declares victory*

*‘The resistance has had the last word,’ Haniyeh claims during visit to the rubble of his office, destroyed in an Israeli airstrike*

Hamas chief emerges from hiding in Gaza, declares victory


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the knuckledraggers in the Islamic terrorist franchise of Hamas  are looking for excuses to explain their latest pratfall. 


*Hamas claims rockets fired at central Israel were self-activated*

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-claims-rockets-fired-at-central-israel-were-self-activated/*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Remember this picture? It still pops up from time to time.





In fact this picture was cropped from a photo of street theatre meant to vilify Israel, but with poorly dressed actors:






Arabs like to stage these sorts of things = and then some take the video and pretend it is the real thing.

Here's one I hadn't seen, being shared on Twitter as legitimate:



Anyone can tell this isn't real - except for Israel hating idiots. Even one of the commenters to this tweet mentioned it was obvious theatre.

The tweeter doesn't pretend that there is a date for this event, or that the woman "killed" has a name, because he knows the whole thing is a lie.

(full article online)

#Pallywood: Another street theatre performance of fake "Israeli atrocities" that Israel haters are pretending is real ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

So for example they recommend telling a money changer the Hamas Bitcoin wallet address but emphasizing not to say "Hamas."

Or to create a user's own wallet, they say to do it at a public Internet cafe where the IP address cannot be traced to the person.

In the end it looks like a major pain to donate to the terror group, but Hamas' funds have been drying up so they are forced to beg for money.

Not very honorable.

(full article online)

Hamas website begs for money, teaches its fans how to donate to terror without being caught ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

I wrote:
To be precise, before the middle of the last century, there was no such thing as a Palestinian people that identified as such (outside of Jews before 1948.) They really are a recently made-up people. Feel free to prove me wrong with links to articles/books about them before 1940.






I understand how saying these facts makes you angry, but I consider falsifying history to be a pretty big problem as well.

I've spent hours researching Palestinian history and culture. Outside Nablus soap and Bethlehem costumes - which were local, not national - almost nothing.

And yes, I've seem more modern re-writings of history to find a unique Palestinian cuisine, etc. It's a joke and you know it. There was Levantine culture, Egyptian culture and so forth, but no Palestinian culture.

Obviously there were Arabs living in Palestine. No one claims otherwise. But they identified more with their clans and towns than with anything called "Palestine."

Of course, most prominent Palestinian families proudly trace their family trees from elsewhere, especially Arabia.

So while Yousef Munayyer rants and raves, he knows what I am saying is true. So his only defense is anger, because most Westerners cringe when Arabs freak out and they'll agree to anything to avoid a fight.
-------------
Why are Palestinians the only seven decade old refugee problem in history? Because  Palestinian "leaders" and Arab leaders decided that it was in their interest to keep them stateless forever or until Israel is destroyed. No other refugee group in history existed for this long because no other group was denied basic rights for so long in their adopted countries - countries supposedly ruled by their advocates.
---------
Keeping the Palestinians in misery is a conscious Arab strategy since the 1950s. Everyone knows this. But mentioning it publicly is practically taboo. Luckily, the primary sources are still easy to find.

Arabs like Munayyer all know this, but shame forces them to push the issue to the Jews. His job is literally to deflect the topic away from Arab responsibility and onto Jews.

I don't expect Munayyer to respond with any facts, because he knows I'm right. And that the facts are his enemy.


(full article online)

A brief dose of truth to haters like @YousefMunayyer ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas in its Own Words


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Those Poor, Oppressed Arabs-Moslems. 

Such suffering.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, the suffering. If only the world would give Pal’istanians their own, exclusive, UN sponsored welfare agency, we could end the suffering.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Do these toys look kind of new to anyone else? ]

Here are some photos taken of toys in the rubble of Gaza after Israeli airstrikes over the years, many of which look to be posed.

There were lots of similar photos from Lebanon in 2006.

Well....they're BAAAACK. Here's a tweet from a propagandist "journalist" in Gaza

View image on Twitter


#Palestine || A Palestinian woman carries a teddy bear that find between the rubbles of her house after it was demolished by an Israeli warplain, in #Gaza city.

7:42 AM - Mar 29, 2019

(Full article online)

Return of the Rubble Toys ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



There is no Islamic right of return despite that goofy YouTube video you spam multiple threads with.

You and your YouTube’s still seem unable to understand the terms you use.

Because you struggle without YouTube videos, South African apartheid was a function of inequalities imposed on the black population by white ruling class. The "apartheid" slogan you mindlessly toss about doesn't apply with regard to Israel and islamic terrorists. 

However, why don't you make a case for your sloppy misuse of "apartheid" as you want to apply it to the Israeli / Arab-Moslem situation. Compare the status / living standards / opportunities of Arabs-Moslems in Israel with the status of Jews in Gaza and the statements of Abbas about no israelis in some future Arab-Moslem state. 

Thanks.


----------



## Hollie

There are festivals that most of us non-Islamic Death Cultists are aware of. Music, games, food, sports activities, etc., designed for fun.


On the other hand, there are Islamic Death Cult festivals designed to reinforce a sickness and a pathology.
*




PA Ministry of Education named sports festival
after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi 
who led killing of 37

PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins

Girls wore shirts with image of terrorist*







By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.

To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:

"*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There are festivals that most of us non-Islamic Death Cultists are aware of. Music, games, food, sports activities, etc., designed for fun.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, there are Islamic Death Cult festivals designed to reinforce a sickness and a pathology.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Education named sports festival
> after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> who led killing of 37
> 
> PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Girls wore shirts with image of terrorist*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.
> 
> To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:
> 
> "*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"





Hollie said:


> Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians


37?

Israel has had better days than that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are festivals that most of us non-Islamic Death Cultists are aware of. Music, games, food, sports activities, etc., designed for fun.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, there are Islamic Death Cult festivals designed to reinforce a sickness and a pathology.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Education named sports festival
> after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> who led killing of 37
> 
> PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Girls wore shirts with image of terrorist*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.
> 
> To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:
> 
> "*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 37?
> 
> Israel has had better days than that.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the kind of response which continues to show that you truly do not know what the issues are.

It was 37 Israelis killed by terrorists.

Better days?  In your mind?  When?  When 36 were killed?
When 35 were killed? When 34 Israelis were killed in one massacre by blood thirsty "this is my land, cough, cough.....Muslim land"  terrorists?

TERRORISTS =  people who do not care who they kill, and how, for the sake of their goals.  SCARE   PEOPLE into giving in, just as they used to scare Jews when there was no Israel, when Jews could not defend themselves.


Bad luck, isn't it, that now Israel exists and it is kicking their worthless Islamic asses where they deserve to be kicked.

For Islam, life is not only cheap, it is worthless versus territory and power.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are festivals that most of us non-Islamic Death Cultists are aware of. Music, games, food, sports activities, etc., designed for fun.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, there are Islamic Death Cult festivals designed to reinforce a sickness and a pathology.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Education named sports festival
> after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> who led killing of 37
> 
> PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Girls wore shirts with image of terrorist*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.
> 
> To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:
> 
> "*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 37?
> 
> Israel has had better days than that.
Click to expand...


As usual, you’re little more than a Pom Pom flailing wannabe for Islamic terrorists.

Israel has no government sponsored and supported program that actively manages and promotes the killing of Arab-Moslems. That is in rather stark contrast to Arabs-Moslems who have a literal cradle to grave system that breeds generation after generation of murderous psychopaths.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are festivals that most of us non-Islamic Death Cultists are aware of. Music, games, food, sports activities, etc., designed for fun.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, there are Islamic Death Cult festivals designed to reinforce a sickness and a pathology.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Education named sports festival
> after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> who led killing of 37
> 
> PA Ministry of Education names sports event for girls after terrorist murderer who led killing of 37 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Girls wore shirts with image of terrorist*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the days marked fervently by the Palestinian Authority is the anniversary in March of the most lethal terror attack against Israel - the Coastal Road massacre in which Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians, among them 12 children. The attack was led by female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who the PA since has turned into a role model and hero for Palestinian children and society in general.
> 
> To celebrate the anniversary this year, the PA Ministry of Education arranged a sports festival for girls named after the terrorist:
> 
> "*The Dalal Mughrabi Sports Festival*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorists murdered 37 civilians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 37?
> 
> Israel has had better days than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is exactly the kind of response which continues to show that you truly do not know what the issues are.
> 
> It was 37 Israelis killed by terrorists.
> 
> Better days?  In your mind?  When?  When 36 were killed?
> When 35 were killed? When 34 Israelis were killed in one massacre by blood thirsty "this is my land, cough, cough.....Muslim land"  terrorists?
> 
> TERRORISTS =  people who do not care who they kill, and how, for the sake of their goals.  SCARE   PEOPLE into giving in, just as they used to scare Jews when there was no Israel, when Jews could not defend themselves.
> 
> 
> Bad luck, isn't it, that now Israel exists and it is kicking their worthless Islamic asses where they deserve to be kicked.
> 
> For Islam, life is not only cheap, it is worthless versus territory and power.
Click to expand...


Gee whiz, Sixties. After that shredding of PF Tinmore, there won’t be enough of the little wannabe left to sweep up into a dust pan.


----------



## Hollie

Wow. And all along I thought that life in an Islamic mini-caliphate was the most perfect existence


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How many more countries are finally going to cut funds to the P. A.  ?   How long will it take for all to stop funding this kind of behavior?  ]


PA to stop giving Palestinians medical care in Israel which cost them $100 million a year, because Israel cut from the PA what the PA spends on terrorists' salaries - $138 million a year.

(full article online)

PA prioritizes salaries to terrorists over medical care for Palestinians - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

It appears that the Arab-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians" are going to have another chance for a massive fail. 

While there are a lot of proposals to shower the Arabs-Moslems with both Arab welfare dollars and western technology, there doesn't seem to be a willingness on the part of "Pal'istanians" to accept responsibility for their future. 

No amount of welfare will force the Arabs-Moslems an opportunity to claw their way out of self-imposed retrogression without a willingness to do so. 




Israel's concessions to Hamas are just the prelude


Many of the proposals being mentioned now to rehabilitate Gaza were raised more than two years ago, in what was dubbed the “Poly plan,” after former Israeli Coordinator of Activities in the Territories Maj. Gen. Yoav (“Poly”) Mordechai.

At the time there was talk of injecting about $1.5 billion into Gaza, mostly from the Gulf States, but with American and European support. Among the proposals were: Establishing industrial zones for Palestinian labor in Egyptian Rafah; building solar farms along the Gaza border; the upgrading of the Gaza’s gas and electricity infrastructure with Israeli assistance; the construction of desalination plants; the construction of a short railway connecting the Erez checkpoint with northern Gaza City (which would allow swifter passage of goods through Ashdod Port), and possibly constructing a dock for the Palestinians at the El-Arish Port in Sinai.

Now these ideas are again on the agenda, since, after nearly two years of delays, it seems the Trump administration is close to actually submitting its peace plan. This, even though the Palestinian Authority has declared from every possible platform, including PA President Mahmoud Abbas’ speech to the Arab League conference in Morocco on Sunday, that the plan is dangerous, it favors Israel, and cannot be accepted.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

On March 27, 2019, Sajed Mizher, a 17-year-old Palestinian was killed by the Israeli security forces “during confrontations in Dheisheh refugee camp in the southern West Bank district of Bethlehem.”

According to Palestinian Medical Relief Society (PMRS), “a grassroots community-based Palestinian health organization,” Mizher was a “first aid volunteer” with the NGO and was shot “*as he was performing his duty, in his first aid uniform*, during a raid by Israeli force on the camp” (emphasis added). For PMRS, this was part of a wider context of “attacks on medical personnel and other protected persons.”

In sharp contrast, the IDF released a video of the violent incident, in which “dozens of rioters hurled blocks and firebombs at the troops.” In the video, you can see an individual removing an orange reflective vest, of the sort usually worn by emergency medical personnel, and then hurling stones at soldiers.

PMRS was not the only Palestinian group to claim Mizher as one of their own. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP terrorist organization –designated as such by the EU, US, Canada, and Israel) declared that it “informs the public of the pride and honor of the death of our comrade the medic Sajed Abd Al-Hakim Mizher (17 years old) from Dheisheh who was martyred of his wounds caused during his attempts to help those wounded in the clashes, ignited in the camp by the occupation soldiers who invaded the camp.” (For more information regarding the network of Palestinian NGOs closely linked to the PFLP, read NGO Monitor’s report “The European-Funded NGO PFLP Network.”)

(full article and photos online)

Palestinian NGO Medic Killed in Bethlehem Clashes Had Ties to PFLP Terror Group


----------



## Sixties Fan

International journalists based in the Middle East seem to care precious little about the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Lebanon, who, for several decades now, have been protesting the apartheid and discrimination practiced by an Arab country.


As a result of these laws, the conditions of Palestinians in Lebanon have worsened to a point where 65% of them live below the poverty line, according to a report by _Al-Jazeera_.


The Arab and Western silence towards the plight of the Palestinians in Lebanon achieves one thing alone: aggravating Palestinian agony. Yet the only evil the Arab leaders and the international community see is the supposed evil that they link to Israel.

(full article online)

Why Palestinians are Fleeing Lebanon


----------



## Sixties Fan

Qatari Press Praises Armed Palestinian Resistance, Self-Sacrifice For Palestine


----------



## Sixties Fan

When it seized power in a violent 2007 coup, Hamas thought that it would turn the Gaza Strip into a shining example of Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood rule, and use it as a spearhead for the jihadist war on Israel.

Fast forward 12 years, and Hamas’ de facto state is facing economic collapse, a break-down of infrastructure, regional isolation, and a population that is increasingly fearless about expressing its anger at Hamas over the hopeless situation it is in.

In its 12 years as the sovereign regime of Gaza, Hamas has tried to dance at two weddings, staying true to its terrorist DNA on the one hand, while trying to act like a legitimate government on the other, in charge of law and order and basic services. This “identity crisis” has helped drive Gaza to the edge of an abyss, and Hamas is now desperately looking for something, or someone, to provide relief.

Hamas prioritized its military wing above all else, and Gaza’s civilians have been left with very little. Today, Hamas is isolated, facing pressure from Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, and Israel.

(full article online)

Fear of Isolation and Collapse Drive Hamas’ Violent Extortion Racket


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists making demands. Not to worry, Ismail. I’m sure everyone will get right on your announcement, in spite of your inability to define what conditions should br improved. 

Maybe you would prefer a matching cash contribution to your Islamic terrorist reward money paid to the gee-had killers that are cloned in your Islamic terrorist Hell hole. 

*
Hamas demands condition of terrorist prisoners be improved

Hamas demands condition of terrorist prisoners be improved
*
Hamas leader tells UN Middle East envoy to make Israel 'improve conditions' of security prisoners.

Dalit Halevy,  01/04/19 22:43
Share


----------



## Hollie

As they say in Infidel’istan: “you get what you pay for”


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Mahmoud Abbas, the PA believes in "peace" and "security for everyone," and has joined the "war on terror in the world, terror in all its forms."
But according to his deputy, Mahmoud Al-Aloul, a terrorist murderer who just a week earlier killed 2 Israelis makes the PA "proud" and is a role model for "all young Palestinians."
*Abbas:*








*Al- Aloul:*








(full article online)

We believe in peace but admire murderers of Israelis - PA hypocrisy and duplicity exposed - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

The writer for Boston Herald puts forth a rather thorough shredding of apologists for Arab-Moslem terrorism. 

It really is mind boggling that the planet continues to drench murderous psychopaths with welfare dollars handed out by a dedicated UN welfare agency. The UN doesn't maintain a welfare agency for ISIS psychopaths so I struggle to see why they maintain one for the "Pal'istanian" version of murderous islamic terrorist  psychopaths. 


*Blame for suffering in Gaza belongs to Hamas*

Blame for suffering in Gaza belongs to Hamas


Jeff Robbins
PUBLISHED: April 2, 2019 at 1:34 am | UPDATED: April 2, 2019 at 8:59 am
Categories:Op-Ed, Opinion
_






“Don’t confuse me with the facts” is the very line that long has been brought to mind by those who, irrevocably predisposed to buying Palestinian claims about Israel hook, line and sinker, regard it as poor sportsmanship when those facts are pointed out by others who do not choose to inhabit an alternative universe. Thus, for example, the fact that there is no independent Palestinian state flourishing next to Israel is because that arrangement was rejected by Palestinian leaders — before Israel was created, when it was created and after it was created. It is an arrangement that Palestinian leaders render impossible or actively stiff-arm to this day. This is one of those facts which, for some, has never seemed to matter._


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, Hollie, et al,

The Arab Palestinian of the West Bank and Gaza Strip (AP WB+GS) have not had a single voice of Leadership singe the time of Yasser Arafat.   So today, it doesn't surprise me that there is no coherent and recognizable policy being communicated.  It often appears that the various significant factions go their own way. 



Hollie said:


> As they say in Infidel’istan: “you get what you pay for”


*(COMMENT)*

You may not get anything for what you paid. 

HAMAS "policies" _(not the Charter or Covenant)_ as an example, have never really been made clear.   At one moment they claim they are not in charge of activities along the border.  And on the other hand, they claim to hold governmental authority and maintain peace and good order.  Both HAMAS and FATAH seem to jump back and forth between holding a policy based on the image of heroic fighters, as Resistance Movement as the last line of defense against a foreign occupying power --- and in the next moment, portraying themselves as victims and down-trodden on a none existanceplatform for the establishment of Peace. Shifting back and forth like one of those toy rings that one might find in cereal boxes. 



Sixties Fan said:


> According to Mahmoud Abbas, the PA believes in "peace" and "security for everyone," and has joined the "war on terror in the world, terror in all its forms."
> But according to his deputy, Mahmoud Al-Aloul, a terrorist murderer who just a week earlier killed 2 Israelis makes the PA "proud" and is a role model for "all young Palestinians."
> *
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------​*We believe in peace but admire murderers of Israelis - PA hypocrisy and duplicity exposed - PMW Bulletins


*(COMMENT)*

Mahmoud Abbas is an especially crafty chamaeleon.  He can change right before your eyes.  Abbas operates in his own best interest; collateral damage be damned.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Another of the Arab-Moslems psychopaths who are seen as heroes by like-minded Arab-Moslem psychopaths.



From memri:
_Ahlam Tamimi, a Hamas terrorist sentenced to 16 life sentences for her involvement in the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria suicide bombing in Jerusalem, was interviewed by Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on March 28, 2019. Tamimi explained that her 2011 release from Israeli prison with her husband as part of the Shalit prisoner exchange was the beginning of a new life, but that her life is a bit shaken by the fact that she is still wanted by American authorities. Tamimi said that being in Jordan gives her strength because Jordan does not have an extradition agreement with the U.S. and has refused to extradite her_


----------



## Hollie

It’s as though these psychopaths come off an Arab-Moslem psychopath assembly line.



_In a March 30, 2019 episode of Russia Today's program, Going Underground, that commemorated one year of the Great Return Marches in Gaza, Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi said that the UK is completely controlled and occupied by Israel. She criticized the UK for having brought Zionism to Palestine, and she said that the Palestinians will return dignity to the whole world, including the UK. Tamimi said that Israel wants only to kill Palestinians and take their land, and that Zionism uses to cover of the Jewish religion to do whatever it wants. Tamimi also said that the Palestinian people will continue to struggle until Palestine and the Golan Heights are free._


----------



## Hollie

Another lull in the islamic terrorist attacks, to pick up again after Hamas gets their welfare check from Iran to rearm. 




Report: Hamas, Islamic Jihad order end to Gaza border attacks

Report: Hamas, Islamic Jihad order end to Gaza border attacks
Haniyeh says 'no reason' why Hamas cannot discuss prisoner swap, likely involving fallen IDF soldiers, captive civilians; Hamas boss hints that Egypt-mediated talks with Israel progressing well
Elior Levy|Published:  04.03.19 , 15:07 
Facebook and Twitter  

All Hamas and Islamic Jihad men were also ordered to end their nightly disturbances along the Gaza border fence, the report said, as well as the use of explosives during riots along the border. The new directives are in line with the understandings being reached with Israel under Egyptian mediation.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied for this wannabe.


*Palestinian tries to stab West Bank settlers, is shot dead: Israel*




Palestinian tries to stab West Bank settlers, is shot dead: Israel

ReutersApril 3, 2019
NABLUS, West Bank (Reuters) - A Palestinian tried to stab Israelis with a knife in the occupied West Bank on Wednesday and was shot dead by one of them, the Israeli military and a witness said.


----------



## Hollie

Those Egyptians - they're so _islamophobic.


Sources: Egypt security arrested Fatah leader

*Sources: Egypt security arrested Fatah leader*

April 4, 2019 at 9:46 am | Published in: Africa, Egypt, Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine




Palestinian Fatah supporters take part in a rally in Gaza City on 11 November 2017 [Yasser Qudih/Apaimages]

April 4, 2019 at 9:46 am

Egyptian authorities have been holding Fatah’s senior leader, Zaki Al-Sakani, for several days, Arabi21 reported yesterday.

Quoting a well-informed source close to the Palestinian embassy in Cairo, the agency said that Al-Sakani had been arrested by Egyptian security.

Al-Sakani, known as Abu Rashad, was released from Hamas’ prisons in the occupied Gaza Strip in October 2016, he had been held as a result of his alleged involvement in the bombing a Qassam Brigades-affiliated vehicle in the enclave.


_

Gee whiz. It's difficult to imagine that something like an islamic terrorist bombing here or there should cause such a kerfuffle.


----------



## Hollie

I'm curious to know if I can get this islamic terrorist reality show on pay per view.


*Hamas terrorists attack Fatah terrorists in Gaza*
*

Hamas terrorists attack Fatah terrorists in Gaza*

Fatah terrorists attacked by Hamas terrorists during a demonstration in support of PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

Dalit Halevi, 24/02/19 04:48






Hamas
Reuters
Fatah terrorists in the Gaza Strip, which is controlled by Hamas, held a demonstration in support of Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas and the legitimacy of his regime.

Atef Abu Saif, spokesman for the Fatah movement, said that the demonstrations were also intended to express opposition to Israel's policies and to the "plots" aimed at eliminating the Palestinian issue, a reference to the US peace initiative which has come to be known as the “Deal of the Century”.

Abu Saif condemned the Hamas movement for the forcible suppression of the demonstrators in the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza and for the arrest of Fatah activists.

The official PA news agency _Wafa_ reported that Hamas activists attacked the participants in the demonstration organized by Fatah with batons and arrested several of them.


----------



## Hollie

I sure hope the angry tribes can resolve their differences in classic islamic terrorist fashion by gee-had'en each other.



FATAH RAISES HAMAS IRE AFTER CALLING FOR NEW PA GOVERNMENT IN WEST BANK
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

Fatah raises Hamas ire after calling for new PA government in West Bank

_





“Fatah’s call for forming a new government consisting of PLO factions will solidify the split between the West Bank and Gaza Strip,” said Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum.

Hamas said on Monday that attempts by its rivals in Fatah to form a new Palestinian Authority government will deepen the crisis between the two parties and deal a severe blow to efforts to end divisions among the Palestinians.

On Sunday, the Fatah Central Council recommended that PA President Mahmoud Abbas form a government consisting of representatives of various PLO factions and independent figures. The government will replace the one headed by Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah.

Mahmoud al-Aloul, deputy chairman of Fatah, said his faction has formed a special committee to negotiate with various Palestinian groups about the formation of a new government.

Hamdallah’s Ramallah-based cabinet is called the Palestinian National Consensus Government because it was established following understandings reached between Fatah and Hamas in 2014.
_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jew hatred to Palestinians and tolerance to foreign audience - Abbas' contradictory messages 

The PA on the Western Wall and the Temple Mount -  
 belongs to Muslims only, Jews have no rights to them


Abbas to visiting American students:

"We are honestly not against the Jews. No. The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims - for us they are equal... The holy sites will remain open to the three [monotheistic] religions at all times, and no one can prevent anyone- Christian, Jew, Muslim - from going and performing his religious rituals."

Abbas to Palestinians:

"The Al-Aqsa [Mosque compound, includes the Temple Mount] is ours... and they [Jews] have no right to defile it with their filthy feet."

"We have to prevent them, in any way whatsoever, from entering the Sanctuary (i.e., the Temple Mount)... They have no right to enter it. They have no right to defile it. We must prevent them. Let us stand before them with chests bared to protect our holy places." 

(full article online)

Jew hatred to Palestinians and tolerance to foreign audience - Abbas’ contradictory messages - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Interesting article in the Houston Chronicle. It nicely shines the harsh light of indifference by so much of the leftist media when it comes to islamic terrorists abusing Arabs-Moslems.


*Hamas’ oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]*
on March 21, 2019

Hamas' oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]

The people of the Gaza Strip are protesting again, and soldiers are shooting again, and civilians are being victimized again. Only this time you may have missed the story, because these protests barely rated a buried paragraph in most Western news accounts.

That’s odd: Some media outlets are prepared to devote months of journalistic effort to trace the trajectory of a single bullet that accidentally kills a Palestinian — provided the bullet is Israeli.

The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war. Since then, no genuine elections have been held, and no dissent brooked.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists in the competing mini-caliphates of Sinwar’istan and Abbas’istan are still fighting the civil war that has been simmering (and sometimes bursts into a shootingvwar), since 2007. 

It’s just more of the Crips vs. the Bloods except that these psychopathic teenagers have Korans.  




Ban on Hamas’ student bloc stirs angry reactions

Read more: Ban on Hamas’ student bloc stirs angry reactions

Public protests were staged March 14-15 in the Gaza Strip against the dire living conditions and harsh conduct of the Hamas-affiliated security forces against the protesters. Meanwhile, reactions to these incidents in the West Bank appeared in the form of media statements or measures on the ground.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas described Hamas as a “dark movement that will end up in the trash can of history.” This came during a phone conversation between Abbas and Fatah spokesman Atef Abu Seif who was injured March 19 during the events in Gaza. The video of the conversation was posted on Facebook


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Interesting article in the Houston Chronicle. It nicely shines the harsh light of indifference by so much of the leftist media when it comes to islamic terrorists abusing Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> *Hamas’ oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]*
> on March 21, 2019
> 
> Hamas' oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]
> 
> The people of the Gaza Strip are protesting again, and soldiers are shooting again, and civilians are being victimized again. Only this time you may have missed the story, because these protests barely rated a buried paragraph in most Western news accounts.
> 
> That’s odd: Some media outlets are prepared to devote months of journalistic effort to trace the trajectory of a single bullet that accidentally kills a Palestinian — provided the bullet is Israeli.
> 
> The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war. Since then, no genuine elections have been held, and no dissent brooked.





Hollie said:


> The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war.


Hamas was the elected government in office.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA TV reporter: Israel “steals” Palestinian dishes, "attributes them to its truly fake identity”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Director-General of Al-Nasr Grinders Na'im Nasr: The Palestinian spices have become number one in the world. If we prepare a Palestinian mix today... named maqluba spice - there is no maqluba spice elsewhere...

 Official PA TV reporter: "The occupation has attempted to steal even this-" 

Na'im Nasr: "True." Official PA TV reporter: "-which is our national dish, or spices, hyssop, or even wheat."

 Official PA TV, Made in Palestine, Feb. 2, 2019


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article in the Houston Chronicle. It nicely shines the harsh light of indifference by so much of the leftist media when it comes to islamic terrorists abusing Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> *Hamas’ oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]*
> on March 21, 2019
> 
> Hamas' oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]
> 
> The people of the Gaza Strip are protesting again, and soldiers are shooting again, and civilians are being victimized again. Only this time you may have missed the story, because these protests barely rated a buried paragraph in most Western news accounts.
> 
> That’s odd: Some media outlets are prepared to devote months of journalistic effort to trace the trajectory of a single bullet that accidentally kills a Palestinian — provided the bullet is Israeli.
> 
> The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war. Since then, no genuine elections have been held, and no dissent brooked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the elected government in office.
Click to expand...


And how fitting that Arabs-Moslems “elected” their own oppressors.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem’dom at its finest.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article in the Houston Chronicle. It nicely shines the harsh light of indifference by so much of the leftist media when it comes to islamic terrorists abusing Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> *Hamas’ oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]*
> on March 21, 2019
> 
> Hamas' oppression apparently unimportant [Opinion]
> 
> The people of the Gaza Strip are protesting again, and soldiers are shooting again, and civilians are being victimized again. Only this time you may have missed the story, because these protests barely rated a buried paragraph in most Western news accounts.
> 
> That’s odd: Some media outlets are prepared to devote months of journalistic effort to trace the trajectory of a single bullet that accidentally kills a Palestinian — provided the bullet is Israeli.
> 
> The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war. Since then, no genuine elections have been held, and no dissent brooked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference this time is that the shots are being fired by Hamas, the militant Islamist group that has ruled Gaza since 2007, when it usurped power from its rivals in the Fatah movement in a quick and dirty civil war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the elected government in office.
Click to expand...


Then they became the usual islamic fascist dictators for life.


----------



## Hollie

The islamc terrorist huggers at HRW have made a remarkable discovery; islamic terrorists aren't always the champions of sweetness and light. 

*HRW: Palestinian authorities committed abuses, torture*

HRW: Palestinian authorities committed abuses, torture

Palestinian governments, accused of systematic human rights violations, reject HRW report as 'biased' and 'inaccurate'.

by Ali Younes
23 Oct 2018 GMT+3
Human Rights Watch (HRW) has condemned the "systematic arbitrary arrests and torture" carried out by the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the occupied West Bank and Hamas in Gaza.

In a report published on Tuesday, the international rights group demanded the Palestinian governments hold those responsible to account and also called on donors to the Palestinian authorities to suspend aid to the agencies implicated in abuses until action is taken.




I think it's only fair that islamic terrorists receive a terse email from HRW "condemning in the strongest terms......"


----------



## Hollie

I'm not clear why people are whiny about islamic terrorists behaving in the way islamic terrorists behave.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Overthrowing Hamas and handing rule in Gaza to Mahmoud Abbas will not bring about a solution to the Gaza problem. It was, after all, Yasser Arafat, Abbas’s predecessor as PLO leader, who transformed Gaza into an ineradicable terrorist hotbed by flouting the Oslo Accords that he had signed. The solution to the Gaza problem does not lie in Ramallah but rather in the Strip’s historic hinterland – the Sinai Peninsula.

(full article online)

Handing Gaza to Abbas Will Solve Nothing


----------



## Sixties Fan

We are used to calling the Palestinian Arabs' Western supporters “useful idiots”, those voluntarily embarked in the sea of pro-Palestinian propaganda. We might do well to rethink the roles. It may be possible that the Palestinian Arabs are the West's useful idiots in its war against Israel.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Arabs, the West's useful idiots


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Overthrowing Hamas and handing rule in Gaza to Mahmoud Abbas will not bring about a solution to the Gaza problem. It was, after all, Yasser Arafat, Abbas’s predecessor as PLO leader, who transformed Gaza into an ineradicable terrorist hotbed by flouting the Oslo Accords that he had signed. The solution to the Gaza problem does not lie in Ramallah but rather in the Strip’s historic hinterland – the Sinai Peninsula.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Handing Gaza to Abbas Will Solve Nothing


----------



## Hollie

Gaza in context.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The writer's words hint at the impossible situation known to all Gazans:  Hamas gives preference to its own families in everything, and when all of Gaza is suffering, this rankles even more than usual. The discrimination will become even greater on April 6th, when Ramadan, during which it is the custom to consume more food at night because of the daily fast, begins.

One writer posted: "Go to the Jews to learn from them [how a political leader acts towards his citizens]. Imagine!  A fellow resident of my city beat me in front of my parents!! Hamas oppresses, breaks the arms and legs of women, children and the elderly."

Hamas has internalized the problem but lifts an accusing finger at Israel. Salah Albardwil, a member of the political office of Hamas, claims that all the protests and activities using the mantra "We want to live" are organized by the Intelligence Corps of the PA which incited the masses against Hamas while, at the same time, its men eliminated a poor boy from Gaza who infiltrated the PA to bring some money to his mother and brothers.

(full article online)

The suffering of Gaza's population


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How to get this people to Unlearn  what they have been taught from childhood?  ]


Ohio doctor fired again for 'give the Jews wrong medicine' tweet


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Omar ‘Didn’t Know Nothing About No Anti-Semitism,’ Claims Sarsour


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Overthrowing Hamas and handing rule in Gaza to Mahmoud Abbas will not bring about a solution to the Gaza problem. It was, after all, Yasser Arafat, Abbas’s predecessor as PLO leader, who transformed Gaza into an ineradicable terrorist hotbed by flouting the Oslo Accords that he had signed. The solution to the Gaza problem does not lie in Ramallah but rather in the Strip’s historic hinterland – the Sinai Peninsula.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Handing Gaza to Abbas Will Solve Nothing
Click to expand...


Oh wow.  She is REALLY reaching there, isn't she?  She says that "Israel's response to Gaza isn't Gaza-specific, its Palestine-specific."  She says that Israel's operations and wars in Gaza have nothing to do with rockets and mortars being fired indiscriminately into Israel.  She says that Israel treats all Palestinians this way.  Really?  How much more irrational can the Gaza argument get?


----------



## Hollie

These uppity bitches should learn the rules of the Islamic social order. If they were in their hijabs, in their rooms, there would be no fuss. 


*Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza*

*Group claims station, first of its kind, failed to get proper licensing, but management says all permits in order*

Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Revised Complaint Bolsters AMP's Ties to Old Hamas-Support Network


----------



## Sixties Fan

It turns out that at the border between the West Bank and Jordan, the Palestinian Authority arrests hundreds of people every week - far more than Israel does!

Last week, some 34,000 people traveled to and from Jordan through the Allenby Bridge. 10  refused entry by Israel - and 184 wanted Palestinians were detained by the PA going in either direction.

Last week wasn't unusual.

The week before 33,000 people crossed and 223 arrested by the PA.

The week before 252 were arrested out of 32,000 who crossed. all under the smiling visages of Yasir Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas.

Hundreds arrested every week at Palestinian checkpoints. Are they legitimately criminals? Are they political dissidents? No one seems to care. Only Israeli arrests of Palestinians are worth reporting by the media.

(full article online)

Palestinian police arrest hundreds of people a week - at checkpoints ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

It shows the deep respect that Gaza jihadists have for women.





They proved that they can hold signs as well as any man can!

And they can even hold guns!





Yet, as this skit shows, they are still unparalleled at sweeping floors.

The women in the audience were enthusiastic. At least, we assume they were.


(vide photos online)

Feminism, jihadi style (photos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Revised Complaint Bolsters AMP's Ties to Old Hamas-Support Network


Grasping at straws.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Revised Complaint Bolsters AMP's Ties to Old Hamas-Support Network
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
Click to expand...


Offering nothing.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinians: Does Anyone Here Care about Muslim Women?*
*by Bassam Tawil
May 1, 2017 at 4:30 am*

*Palestinians: Does Anyone Here Care about Muslim Women?*


These are embarrassing truths that the pro-Hamas feminist, Linda Sarsour does not want to hear. The rights of women who are being oppressed by Hamas are the last thing on her mind.


Sitting in the comfort of the U.S. and other Western countries, Linda Sarsour and her colleagues are too busy inciting against Israel to remember the plight of women in most Arab countries, including those living under the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas. Sarsour's claim, that Zionism and feminism are incompatible, is nothing but a grimy lie.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It amazes me how there are still any zoos allowed to operate in Gaza and any wild animals still made to live under such horrible conditions.  
Hamas cannot give one shekel to make their conditions better.
Or the Arab population better.  Both have to suffer in order for the Hamas charter to be fulfilled ]


More than 40 zoo animals evacuated from Gaza Strip


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ One wonders if the UK will issue her a student visa now. ]

“The UK is completely occupied and controlled by Israel and it is supporting Israel to kill innocent people who are demonstrating for their rights,” Tamimi said.

Tamimi appears to be applying an anti-Semitic trope that Israel (or Jews) control foreign governments.

She turned further conspiratorial, saying, “The whole world is defeated, we are alone”, before declaring, “but I am pretty sure that the Palestinian people will bring back dignity to the whole world even to the UK who are supporting Israel. The UK brought Zionism to Palestine in the era of the British mandate. We will eventually end this occupation. Their power will not last forever.”

Ahed Tamimi then spoke of Israel’s actions on the Gaza border, falsely accusing Israel of wanting to “kill all Palestinians” – a blood libel.

“They (Israel) have no right to harm any Palestinian and this is another reflection to their terrorism. They want nothing but to kill all Palestinians so they can take all their land. They believe that all Palestinians should be killed, which also shows that they’re racist.”

Be warned, it is very anti-Israel and there are a lot of lies and distortions throughout the below video.

(full article and video online)

https://www.cufi.org.uk/news/ahed-t...lled-by-israel-despite-wanting-to-study-here/


----------



## Hollie

I think it’s a bit of a misnomer to suggest that an Islamist theocratic totalitarian enclave would use arbitrary arrest and torture as a means to crush dissent. Those are the intended and calculated means/methods to crush dissent. 



*Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent*
Arbitrary Arrest and Torture Under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas

Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent | Arbitrary Arrest and Torture Under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas

In the 25 years since Palestinians gained a degree of self-rule over the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, their authorities have established machineries of repression to crush dissent, including through the use of torture.

Both the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank and the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in Gaza have in recent years carried out scores of arbitrary arrests for peaceful criticism of the authorities, particularly on social media, among independent journalists, on university campuses, and at demonstrations. As the Fatah-Hamas feud deepened despite attempts at reconciliation, PA security services have targeted supporters of Hamas and vice versa. Relying primarily on overly broad laws that criminalize activity such as causing “sectarian strife” or insulting “higher authorities,” the PA and Hamas use detention to punish critics and deter them and others from further activism. In detention, security forces routinely taunt, threaten, beat, and force detainees into painful stress positions for hours at a time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ One wonders if the UK will issue her a student visa now. ]
> 
> “The UK is completely occupied and controlled by Israel and it is supporting Israel to kill innocent people who are demonstrating for their rights,” Tamimi said.
> 
> Tamimi appears to be applying an anti-Semitic trope that Israel (or Jews) control foreign governments.
> 
> She turned further conspiratorial, saying, “The whole world is defeated, we are alone”, before declaring, “but I am pretty sure that the Palestinian people will bring back dignity to the whole world even to the UK who are supporting Israel. The UK brought Zionism to Palestine in the era of the British mandate. We will eventually end this occupation. Their power will not last forever.”
> 
> Ahed Tamimi then spoke of Israel’s actions on the Gaza border, falsely accusing Israel of wanting to “kill all Palestinians” – a blood libel.
> 
> “They (Israel) have no right to harm any Palestinian and this is another reflection to their terrorism. They want nothing but to kill all Palestinians so they can take all their land. They believe that all Palestinians should be killed, which also shows that they’re racist.”
> 
> Be warned, it is very anti-Israel and there are a lot of lies and distortions throughout the below video.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Ahed Tamimi says UK is "completely occupied and controlled by Israel" despite wanting to study here


Could Tamimi’s plans to come to the UK be in jeapordy?

The interviewer asked: “And is it true that you may soon be coming to Britain to study international law to make a carrier in human rights?”

Tamimi replied, “I was thinking of studying in the UK, but when I applied for the visa they asked why I was arrested. And whether I’d ever applied for other visas and whether they were refused. And they continued to delay procedures so I probably will not be able to come to the UK.”

*“To be honest, the UK will refuse my visa if Israel requests them to do so. So I’ll continue studying in Palestine. ”*

The interviewer the replied saying, “The Tory government, its Home Office says the decisions are independent. No possibility that you won’t be defacto banned from being educated here?”

Tamimi replied, “it is not about having hopes, but it is obvious that their decision is not independent. Otherwise, they should have accepted my visa earlier like any other visas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ One wonders if the UK will issue her a student visa now. ]
> 
> “The UK is completely occupied and controlled by Israel and it is supporting Israel to kill innocent people who are demonstrating for their rights,” Tamimi said.
> 
> Tamimi appears to be applying an anti-Semitic trope that Israel (or Jews) control foreign governments.
> 
> She turned further conspiratorial, saying, “The whole world is defeated, we are alone”, before declaring, “but I am pretty sure that the Palestinian people will bring back dignity to the whole world even to the UK who are supporting Israel. The UK brought Zionism to Palestine in the era of the British mandate. We will eventually end this occupation. Their power will not last forever.”
> 
> Ahed Tamimi then spoke of Israel’s actions on the Gaza border, falsely accusing Israel of wanting to “kill all Palestinians” – a blood libel.
> 
> “They (Israel) have no right to harm any Palestinian and this is another reflection to their terrorism. They want nothing but to kill all Palestinians so they can take all their land. They believe that all Palestinians should be killed, which also shows that they’re racist.”
> 
> Be warned, it is very anti-Israel and there are a lot of lies and distortions throughout the below video.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Ahed Tamimi says UK is "completely occupied and controlled by Israel" despite wanting to study here
> 
> 
> 
> Could Tamimi’s plans to come to the UK be in jeapordy?
> 
> The interviewer asked: “And is it true that you may soon be coming to Britain to study international law to make a carrier in human rights?”
> 
> Tamimi replied, “I was thinking of studying in the UK, but when I applied for the visa they asked why I was arrested. And whether I’d ever applied for other visas and whether they were refused. And they continued to delay procedures so I probably will not be able to come to the UK.”
> 
> *“To be honest, the UK will refuse my visa if Israel requests them to do so. So I’ll continue studying in Palestine. ”*
> 
> The interviewer the replied saying, “The Tory government, its Home Office says the decisions are independent. No possibility that you won’t be defacto banned from being educated here?”
> 
> Tamimi replied, “it is not about having hopes, but it is obvious that their decision is not independent. Otherwise, they should have accepted my visa earlier like any other visas.
Click to expand...

Poor girl.  She is an innocent victim of Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Satire


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ One wonders if the UK will issue her a student visa now. ]
> 
> “The UK is completely occupied and controlled by Israel and it is supporting Israel to kill innocent people who are demonstrating for their rights,” Tamimi said.
> 
> Tamimi appears to be applying an anti-Semitic trope that Israel (or Jews) control foreign governments.
> 
> She turned further conspiratorial, saying, “The whole world is defeated, we are alone”, before declaring, “but I am pretty sure that the Palestinian people will bring back dignity to the whole world even to the UK who are supporting Israel. The UK brought Zionism to Palestine in the era of the British mandate. We will eventually end this occupation. Their power will not last forever.”
> 
> Ahed Tamimi then spoke of Israel’s actions on the Gaza border, falsely accusing Israel of wanting to “kill all Palestinians” – a blood libel.
> 
> “They (Israel) have no right to harm any Palestinian and this is another reflection to their terrorism. They want nothing but to kill all Palestinians so they can take all their land. They believe that all Palestinians should be killed, which also shows that they’re racist.”
> 
> Be warned, it is very anti-Israel and there are a lot of lies and distortions throughout the below video.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Ahed Tamimi says UK is "completely occupied and controlled by Israel" despite wanting to study here
> 
> 
> 
> Could Tamimi’s plans to come to the UK be in jeapordy?
> 
> The interviewer asked: “And is it true that you may soon be coming to Britain to study international law to make a carrier in human rights?”
> 
> Tamimi replied, “I was thinking of studying in the UK, but when I applied for the visa they asked why I was arrested. And whether I’d ever applied for other visas and whether they were refused. And they continued to delay procedures so I probably will not be able to come to the UK.”
> 
> *“To be honest, the UK will refuse my visa if Israel requests them to do so. So I’ll continue studying in Palestine. ”*
> 
> The interviewer the replied saying, “The Tory government, its Home Office says the decisions are independent. No possibility that you won’t be defacto banned from being educated here?”
> 
> Tamimi replied, “it is not about having hopes, but it is obvious that their decision is not independent. Otherwise, they should have accepted my visa earlier like any other visas.
Click to expand...


It’s a conspiracy I tell’ ya.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The more they change faces, the more their charters remain the same ]

New Palestinian government to be formed within days, officials say


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why Did a North Carolina County Fund Linda Sarsour’s Hate Speech?


----------



## Hollie

I’m not sure what people don’t understand about Islamic terrorist dictators. 


*Why Hamas still relies on violent repression to control Gaza*

Why Hamas still relies on violent repression to control Gaza





Amnesty International recently released a report, Strangling Necks, detailing war crimes committed by Hamas during the 2014 war with Israel. Unlike previous reports on Hamas’ crimes, this one focuses on crimes committed against Palestinians, including abduction, torture, and extrajudicial killings. 

While this behaviour is illegal under both international and Palestinian law and morally outrageous to boot, it is hardly new. Since it took over the Gaza Strip in 2007 after a brief but bloody civil war with its rival Fatah, Hamas has instituted an authoritarian system of rule which shows scant regard for human rights or freedom of expression.

This is a system of intimidation and violent repression that extends well beyond the conflict with Israel and the punishment of “collaborators” and into the complex sphere of Palestinian politics.


----------



## Hollie

It seems to me that it’s racist, maybe even _Islamophobic_™️ to question the wondrous Islamic terrorist social order. 


*Gaza: Journalist facing prison term for exposing corruption in Hamas-controlled ministry  *

*Gaza journalist facing prison for exposing corruption
*
25 February 2019, 14:20 UTC
An investigative journalist who published a report revealing corruption within the ministry of health in Gaza is facing up to six months in jail, said Amnesty International, ahead of her appeal hearing tomorrow. 

Hajar Harb, a Palestinian journalist from Gaza, released an investigative report on al-Araby TV  on 25 June 2016 highlighting that the ministry, which is run by the Hamas de-facto administration, was profiting by arranging illegal medical transfers out of the Gaza Strip for people who did not need treatment. She has been charged with a series of offences including defamation and the publication of false news.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian students are being targeted because of their political affiliations and not because of any crime they committed.


While the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are busy beating up each other's supporters, "pro-Palestinian" activists on US and Canadian university campuses are busy blaming Israel for Palestinian woes.


For these alleged activists -- who are remarkably passive when it comes to truly assisting Palestinians -- their protests seem more about hating Israel than anything else. If they really cared about the Palestinians, they might stop abusing Israel long enough to notice the abuse that the Palestinian "leaders" inflict on the people under them.
(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Targets Students


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian students are being targeted because of their political affiliations and not because of any crime they committed.
> 
> 
> While the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are busy beating up each other's supporters, "pro-Palestinian" activists on US and Canadian university campuses are busy blaming Israel for Palestinian woes.
> 
> 
> For these alleged activists -- who are remarkably passive when it comes to truly assisting Palestinians -- their protests seem more about hating Israel than anything else. If they really cared about the Palestinians, they might stop abusing Israel long enough to notice the abuse that the Palestinian "leaders" inflict on the people under them.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority Targets Students


There is plenty of criticism about Palestine's so called leaders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian students are being targeted because of their political affiliations and not because of any crime they committed.
> 
> 
> While the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are busy beating up each other's supporters, "pro-Palestinian" activists on US and Canadian university campuses are busy blaming Israel for Palestinian woes.
> 
> 
> For these alleged activists -- who are remarkably passive when it comes to truly assisting Palestinians -- their protests seem more about hating Israel than anything else. If they really cared about the Palestinians, they might stop abusing Israel long enough to notice the abuse that the Palestinian "leaders" inflict on the people under them.
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Authority Targets Students
> 
> 
> 
> There is plenty of criticism about Palestine's so called leaders.
Click to expand...


You’re an ineffective politburo mouthpiece.

Palestinian political rivalry takes toll on journalists | Reporters without borders


----------



## Hollie

Yahya Sinwar just got a pay cut. 





BERLIN- German police on Wednesday raided offices belonging to Islamic organizations suspected of financing the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which is on the European Union's terrorism blacklist, the interior ministry said.

The ministry said the main targets of the raids were WorldWide Resistance-Help and Ansaar International which are believed to have collected funds for Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip, under the guise of humanitarian aid.

German police raid Islamic organizations over suspected Hamas support


----------



## Hollie

Does anyone tell these blustering buffoons that their pointy fingered buffoonery is a laughable joke?






*Hamas Gaza Chief Threatens Tel Aviv Amid Truce Talks*

*Hamas Gaza Chief Threatens Tel Aviv Amid Truce Talks*



_




MOHAMMED ABED/AFP/Getty
BREITBART JERUSALEM 7 Apr 2019 
*The Times of Israel reports: Hamas’s chief in Gaza said Saturday that if there is a war, Israel will need to evacuate its civilians from Tel Aviv as well as the border communities, a day after the terror group’s leader said talks to achieve a truce were advancing.*_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Female terrorist attacks bus security guard


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

While the islamic terrorist "leadership" in Hamas has an interest in furthering their propaganda, they can hardly view Israeli elections as irrelevant. 

The more pragmatic Netanyahu is a benefit to, at the very least, anticipation of a "proportional response" in the face of islamic terrorist attacks from the Iranian sponsored islamic terrorist franchises.  


*Hamas calls Knesset election outcome ‘irrelevant’*

Hamas calls Knesset election outcome ‘irrelevant’

*Khalil al-Hayya, a senior official in Gaza-based terror group, says there’s ‘no difference’ between the various Israeli parties, as Netanyahu emerges the winner*


----------



## Hollie

I can't imagine anyone would think the current lull in islamic terrorist beatdowns delivered by Israel in response to islamic terrorist attacks is construed as a peace treaty.

It's nothing more than a lull in islamic terrorist beatdowns while the islamic terrorists re-arm.



HAMAS: CEASEFIRE UNDERSTANDINGS WITH ISRAEL NOT A PEACE AGREEMENT
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

Hamas: Ceasefire understandings with Israel not a peace agreement
_




Saleh al-Arouri ‏. (photo credit:" ARAB MEDIA)
The ceasefire understandings, he said, are not a “political agreement or a truce” with Israel. He claimed that Hamas did not face any preconditions for being part of the understandings.

The recent Egyptian-sponsored ceasefire understandings between Israel and Hamas are not a peace or truce agreement, senior Hamas official Saleh Arouri said on Thursday.
_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas’s well-established presence in Germany


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ I have a feeling that the population transfer should happen between Gaza and the PA.  Hamas members for Fatah members.  That is one way of achieving peace between the two, and each one governs their own little territories and turn them into future States ]

Hamas, which rules Gaza, last week gave a down payment of NIS 1,200 to some 5,000 officials who have not been paid since January.

About 1,700 are administration clerks, 1,000 are security officials, and the rest are family members of terrorists who were killed, injured or incarcerated by Israel.

Hamas announced that it will pay the remaining sum next month.

Abbas has been exerting tremendous pressure on Hamas and the Strip since April 2017 through the partial freezing of the salaries of 60,000 PA officials in Gaza who have been receiving only 70 percent of their pay.

On the other hand, since Hamas’ violent takeover of the Strip in 2007 it has expelled tens of thousands of employees who are not Hamas members from the civil service and replaced them with its own members.

Hamas Begins to Pay PA Officials in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since Palestinian entry into UNESCO in November 2011, along with a voracious appetite, it has annually demanded and received as heritage sites: the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, Battir (the headquarters of Bar-Kochba’s Beitar revolt against the Romans), Bilal ibn Rabah Mosque (Rachel’s Tomb), Haram al Sharif (the Temple Mount), Buraq Plaza (the Kotel, or Western Wall), and Al-Haram al-Ibrahimi Mosque (Tomb of the Patriarchs) in Khalil (Hebron).

Celestial and terrestrial Jerusalem meet in the so-called “Holy Basin,” where most of the three monotheistic faiths’ shrines are concentrated. Through the World Heritage Committee, their claims are ultimately aimed at sovereignty.

The Jewish Western Wall stands below the Temple Mount esplanade, connected by the “Mughrabi Ascent.” If Islamized, a non-Muslim worshiper at the Western Wall could conceivably be viewed as a trespassing infidel. 

The aim is patently to obtain sites to surround Jerusalem and its suburbs.

(full article online)

Palestinian aggression against interfaith harmony at UNESCO


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Everyone, and everything is keeping them from achieving it......and not the Arab refusal for self determination.  Always.  1937.  1947. 2000.  2008.....and it goes on and on and on ]

Chief Palestinian Authority negotiator Saeb Erekat said in a statement that this “signals the complicity of the company with the systematic denial of our inalienable right to self-determination.”

(full article online)

https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/04...about-face-on-de-listing-israeli-settlements/


----------



## Sixties Fan

Divestment Vote Fails at UCSB


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. What’s the world coming to when competing Islamic terrorist franchises begin calling each other “oppressive”?

I think some large caliber weapons and stockpiles of ammunition are in order to let these Dark Ages loons settle their differences. 


*Hamas Held Responsible for Oppression in Gaza Strip*

Hamas Held Responsible for Oppression in Gaza Strip

The Palestinian Authority (PA) held the Gaza Strip ruling party, Hamas, responsibility for ongoing oppression there. Hamas is facing accusations of using excessive force with civilians after leading a crackdown against protesters demonstrating over economic hardship and upped tax brackets.

In a first since Hamas seized the Strip twelve years ago, fierce clashes erupted between its forces and hundreds of young demonstrators in Gaza on Saturday as protests against the high cost of living in the coastal enclave entered their third day.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Preventing Peace Regardless of Who Won the Israeli Election


----------



## Sixties Fan

04/12 Links Pt1: Daniel Pipes: Anticipating Trump’s ‘Deal of the Century’; Palestinians Preventing Peace Regardless of Who Won the Israeli Election ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A poorly attended Arab League summit in Tunis with no concrete results


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> 04/12 Links Pt1: Daniel Pipes: Anticipating Trump’s ‘Deal of the Century’; Palestinians Preventing Peace Regardless of Who Won the Israeli Election ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Trump will never get that pig to fly.


----------



## Hollie

Never missing an opportunity to be the biggest losers on the planet, an Arab-Moslem conspiracy theorist rattles on without any r3gard for a reality based worldview.


"Palestinian Tycoon Munib Al-Masri: Israel Has 300-Year-Old Plan to Expand From Nile to Euphrates; Deal of the Century Cannot Pass As Long As Palestinians Live"

_Palestinian business tycoon Munib Al-Masri said in an April 1, 2019 interview on France 24 Arabic that the world has turned to issues other than the Palestinian cause at the expense of the Palestinians, and that this is part of "hellish" Israeli plans that were laid out 200-300 years ago to spread Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates. He said that it is impossible for any Palestinian to agree to anything less to 1967 borders, East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital, and the return of the Palestinian refugees. Al-Masri also that Yitzhak Rabin had been the only Israeli politician who understood that the Palestinians must be given a state. Al-Masri claimed that the Palestinian resistance taught the Israelis an important lesson in the past two weeks, praised the "acts of heroism" of the Friday protests in Gaza, and added: "The Deal of the Century cannot pass as long as there is one Palestinian alive."_


----------



## Hollie

There’s a new sheriff Islamic terrorist in the town. Well, sort of. 

The cast of characters at the UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist enclave of Mahmoud’istan has done nothing but add a layer of bureaucracy to the already bloated and irrelevant farce of a government.

Mahmoud giving a snub to the rival Islamic terrorist encampment was a nice touch. 



*Palestinian Authority Swears in New Government Excluding Hamas*

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

April 13, 2019, 2:33 PM EDT

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas swore in a new government that excludes his rival Hamas and puts his long-time ally Mohammad Shtayyeh in the role of prime minister at a moment of intensifying pressure on the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

“Death to Israel” song on Hamas TV



I suppose Hamas is beholden to their masters in Iran who have re-written those snappy, finger-poppin verses of “Death to the Great Satan”.


----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult loons were drinking the gee-had koolaid again.


"Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Ahmad Al-Khatwani: Job of Muslims Is to Bring "Hateful Infidels" to Islam through Jihad; Rome Will Be Conquered"


----------



## Hollie

The 1,400 year old blood feud that separates the Sunni and Shia tribes burns as brightly today as it did after the death of Islam’s inventor.

With Hamas bending and scraping before their Shia masters in Iran, the Sunni Qatari tribes have seen the writing on the wall and decided to dump more money into the UNRWA welfare fraud. 

Winning hearts and minds (and tribal loyalties) with money. 

Say the words “Shia Crescent” and the Sunni/Salafi/Wahabbi tribes start reaching for their AK-47’s and their Korans. Cash will do for now but that won’t last long. 



*Qatar boosts its influence in Gaza*

*Qatar boosts its influence in Gaza
*
Adnan Abu Hasna, a Gaza-based spokesman for the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Gaza Strip (UNRWA), announced April 9 that a temporary employment process extending over three to nine months has kicked off. The process, he said, aims to fill 6,400 job vacancies with Qatari funding.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ More than about time to put an end to the Arab Muslims attempt to take over Jewish land ]


Palestinian Authority (PA) cabinet chief Mohammad Shtayyeh said on Saturday, after his cabinet was approved by PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas, that he intends to work to strengthen the steadfastness of the Palestinian residents over their land.

In an interview with _Palestine TV_, Shtayyeh said that the presidency, the government, the security services, the justice system, the information system, the Fatah movement and the PLO member organizations are working to strengthen the legitimacy of the PLO and its leader Abbas.

(full article online)

PA has plans to strengthen its hold on Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas brags to new cabinet about 31 years of intransigence ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Father Manuel Musallam is a prominent Palestinian Arab priest and former head Department for the Christians of the PLO Foreign Office. He has been a Fatah activist for decades.

In a recent interview in Palestine Today, he says explicitly that the Palestinian ambition is to take over Israel.

"The great March of Return and its continuation reflects the state of the clash between the Palestinian resistance and the Israeli occupation forces, and the alarm bell in Israel continues to touch on the fact that the Palestinian did not forget and will not forget his land, country and villages. Jerusalem is the capital of Gaza, Jerusalem is Gaza, Gaza is the Palestinian right, Gaza is Haifa, Safad, Acre, Umm al-Rashrash (Eilat), Nablus, Galilee, and all of the land of Palestine."

Tellingly, he spoke at a rally in Jenin in 1993 meant to get Palestinians on board with the Oslo process that had begun only days earlier. The speaker before him at that speech, representing Fatah's youth group, "gave a short, passionate defense of the Declaration of Principles, arguing that gaining a foothold in Gaza and Jericho would be but an initial step in an eventual reclamation of all of Mandate Palestine and the return of all refugees." Musallam's speech was received even more enthusiastically and he ended it with a bastardization of Psalms:  ‘If I forget thee, O Palestinian Jerusalem, may my right hand lose its cunning.’ He now routinely refers to "occupation" as starting in 1948, not 1967.

(full article online)

The PLO never intended to have a permanent two state solution ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The arrest earlier this week of Omar Barghouti, a co-founder of the anti-Israel Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement, for his alleged failure to pay taxes on $700,000 in income brings an end, or at least a halt, to the public face of his controversial campaign.

The hypocrisy and dishonesty displayed by Bargouti concerning his advanced degree is emblematic of the BDS campaign as a whole. Earlier this year, the movement issued a list of ten successes during 2016; on closer inspection, every one of its claims was found to be either overstated or an outright lie.

The irony is that after years of inflating claims of his movement’s success, Barghouti appears to have been undone by under-reporting his income.

(full article online)

From Anti-Israel Boycott Warrior to Busted Tax Evader: The Rise and Fall of Omar Barghouti


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ More than about time to put an end to the Arab Muslims attempt to take over Jewish land ]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority (PA) cabinet chief Mohammad Shtayyeh said on Saturday, after his cabinet was approved by PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas, that he intends to work to strengthen the steadfastness of the Palestinian residents over their land.
> 
> In an interview with _Palestine TV_, Shtayyeh said that the presidency, the government, the security services, the justice system, the information system, the Fatah movement and the PLO member organizations are working to strengthen the legitimacy of the PLO and its leader Abbas.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PA has plans to strengthen its hold on Jerusalem



_"The Palestinian residents of Jerusalem are waging a struggle to protect the city from Judaization and to preserve it as an Arab Palestinian city. The struggle to preserve the narrative about the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the city of Jerusalem goes through strengthening the steadfastness of the Muslim and Christian residents of the city against the Jews."_

This struggle is not about "return" or self-determination, or equality or peace.  It is articulated, clearly, by the government of Palestine as a struggle to preserve Arab colonial conquest and domination.

Anyone who can not see this is willfully blind.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Musallam's speech was received even more enthusiastically and he ended it with a bastardization of Psalms:  ‘If I forget thee, O Palestinian Jerusalem, may my right hand lose its cunning.’



Wow.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Musallam's speech was received even more enthusiastically and he ended it with a bastardization of Psalms:  ‘If I forget thee, O Palestinian Jerusalem, may my right hand lose its cunning.’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
Click to expand...


May Musallam lose his right hand (and more) for appropriating what is not his.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The theme of last Friday's Hamas-organized Gaza border riots was "Together to face normalization."

Other Palestinian terror groups are also deathly afraid of the idea that Israel will establish relations with Arab nations. At a rally yesterday, Islamic Jihad leader Khader Habib condemned the policy of Arab normalization with Israel, which he said was  "a crime committed against the Palestinian cause and the entire Arab nation at the expense of the Palestinian cities, its villages and its permanent rights."

He said the "Israeli" entity was planted in the middle of the Arab nation as a malicious growth, and that the Palestinian people are targeted through the crime of normalization.

He warned Arab leaders that "the crime of normalization will not protect their thrones" and  that "normalization will only bring them shame."

"Normalization is a betrayal of Allah and the Prophet and the nation of Islam and the Palestinian people and the prisoners of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him."

Leaders of the DFLP, PFLP, Hamas and Nasser Salah-al Din Brigades also spoke out against normalization with Israel.

(full article online)

The biggest opponents of "normalization" happen to be terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It is ALL of the Mandate for Palestine....from the Jews .....or nothing ]



As Israel, the PA and the international community await the publication of the American peace plan, it is clear, based on PA leader Mahmoud Abbas' behavior in previous peace talks, that nothing the United States can offer will be enough for the PA leader. 

PLO chief negotiator Saeb Erekat who was present at the negotiations between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Abbas in 2008, recently told PA TV how generous Olmert's offer was on all final status issues. In fact, Olmert literally accepted all of the PA's publicly expressed demands, and even offered Abbas more than the full area of the West Bank and Gaza, and yet Abbas still rejected the offer.





Erekat explained that the area of the West Bank and Gaza Strip before they came under Israeli control in 1967was 6,235 sq. km. Olmert offered Abbas even more land than that, a total of 6,260 sq. km. At the negotiations, Erekat encouraged Abbas to accept the offer, saying that he could tell Palestinians: "I got more than the 1967 territories." And still Abbas rejected the offer.

(full article online)

Olmert offered Abbas more than 100% of West Bank, says PA leader - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

*EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The term “Nakba,” originally coined to describe the magnitude of the self-inflicted Palestinian and Arab defeat in the 1948 war, has been become in recent decades a synonym for Palestinian victimhood, with failed aggressors transformed into hapless victims and vice versa. Israel should do its utmost to uproot this false image by exposing its patently false historical basis.*

Nowadays, the failed Palestinian Arab attempt to destroy the state of Israel at birth, and the attendant flight of some 600,000 Palestinian Arabs, has come to be known internationally as the “Nakba,” the catastrophe, with its accompanying false implication of hapless victimhood.

This, ironically, was the opposite of the original meaning of the term, when it was first applied to the Arab-Israeli conflict by the Syrian historian Constantin Zureiq. In his 1948 pamphlet The Meaning of the Disaster (Ma’na al-Nakba), Zureiq attributed the Palestinian/Arab flight to the stillborn pan-Arab assault on the nascent Jewish state rather than to a premeditated Zionist design to disinherit the Palestinian Arabs:

When the battle broke out, our public diplomacy began to speak of our imaginary victories, to put the Arab public to sleep and talk of the ability to overcome and win easily – until the Nakba happened…We must admit our mistakes…and recognize the extent of our responsibility for the disaster that is our lot.

Zureiq subscribed to this critical view for decades. In a later book, The Meaning of the Catastrophe Anew (Ma‘na al-Nakbah Mujaddadan) published after the June 1967 war, he defined that latest defeat as a “Nakba” rather than a “Naksa” (or setback), as it came to be known in Arab discourse, since – just as in 1948 – it was a self-inflicted disaster emanating from the Arab world’s failure to confront Zionism.

At that time, the term “Nakba” was glaringly absent from Arab and/or Palestinian discourse. Its first mention – in George Antonius’s influential 1938 book The Arab Awakening – had nothing to do with the (as yet nonexistent) Arab-Israeli conflict but rather with the post-WWI creation of the modern Middle East (“The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe or, in Arabic, Aam al-Nakba”).

Similarly, in his 1956 book Facts on the Question of Palestine (Haqa’iq an Qadiyat Falastin), Hajj Amin Husseini, the leader of the Palestinian Arabs from the early 1920s to 1948, used the term “al-Karitha” to describe the Palestinian Arab collapse and dispersal. According to Palestinian academic Anaheed Al-Hardan of the American University of Beirut, this reflected Husseini’s desire to avoid the term “Nakba,” which was widely associated at the time with a self-inflicted Palestinian Arab disaster – either through land sales to Zionists, failure to put up a fight, or the issuing of instructions to the people to leave.

(full article online)

The False “Nakba” Narrative


----------



## Sixties Fan

SATIRE

Palestinians Develop Tiny 3D-Print Knife To Stab Israeli 3D-Printed Heart – PreOccupied Territory


----------



## Sixties Fan

With victimhood being the most prominent component of Palestinian identity, and with the world increasingly condemning Antisemitism, the Palestinian Authority has decided to embrace Antisemitism as a new category of Palestinian victimhood. The PA Foreign Ministry has announced that since Palestinians are "Semites," any policies that harm Palestinians are expressions of Antisemitism. Since the PA sees Zionism as victimizing Palestinians - "Zionism is hostile to Palestine" - they conclude that Zionism inherently is Antisemitism. Moreover, American policy critical of the Palestinian Authority, is likewise Antisemitism.

This creative new Palestinian victimhood category announced by the PA comes in response to the American position expressed recently by Secretary of State Pompeo: "Let me go on record: Anti-Zionism IS Antisemitism."
According to the PA's new announcement, anti-Zionism cannot be Antisemitism because Zionism itself, by hurting Palestinians, is Antisemitism.

*The following is an excerpt from the article in the official PA daily:*
"The [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs... said that... American Secretary of State [Mike] Pompeo has voiced a series of false positions... Pompeo has allowed himself to remove the Palestinians and the Arabs from the Semitic race by stating that 'Anti-Zionism or objection to Israel's existence as the homeland of the Jewish people, is a type of Antisemitism that is escalating (see note below -Ed.).'
*The Ministry of Foreign Affairs emphasized that hostility towards the Palestinian people is Antisemitism, and that the ugly, recurring, and deliberate Antisemitism that [US President] Trump's administration is committing against Semitic Palestine is also Antisemitism*. In addition, the American administration has no right to ignore the fact that Semitism is not exclusive to the original Jews, but also includes the Arab Palestinians, and therefore *any manifestation of hostility towards Palestinians is an explicit manifestation of Antisemitism*. Moreover, *since Zionism is hostile to Palestine, its people, and the establishment of a national homeland for the Palestinian people on the land of its homeland, this makes Zionism itself antisemitic*."

(full article online)

PA: Zionism = Antisemitism - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reason cell phones are banned is obvious. Terrorists can plan new attacks from prison. They can recruit new members of terror groups. They can speak via teleconference at terrorist gatherings and incite more hate and violence. Indeed, Israel has evidence of 14 recent attacks planned via illegal prison cell phones.

Instead of telling the prisoners to drop dead from their hunger strike, Israeli prison officials negotiated with them. And they came up with a solution that seems to address all the issues: Israel agreed to install public telephones in the prison wards where the Arab terrorists are kept, and to allow prisoners to make regular calls to first degree relatives that Israeli officials can listen in on.

Israel no longer has a security issue and Arab prisoners are happy they can speak to their families, which makes prisons a safer place for guards as well. This is a win-win situation.

But that is not how Palestinian media is looking at this.





Today is Palestinian Prisoners Day and Palestinian media is saying that the compromise was a "qualitative victory"for them. (Suddenly the fears of the supposed radiation from the cell phone jammers, which presumably will remain in place, have dissipated.)

Palestinian Arabs simply cannot think in terms of cooperation and compromise with Israel. They can only frame this incident as a victory for them - and a loss for Israel.

This is only a minor example of how the entire conflict has gone. For the Palestinian Arabs, perception is more important than reality (a corollary of the honor/shame culture they inhabit) and therefore they cannot accept anything but what can be framed as total victory - and, just as importantly, a total loss for the Jews.

From Israel's perspective, making a concession is evidence of how strong and secure it feels. From the Arab perspective, Israeli concessions is evidence of their weakness in the face of Arab power and resolve. The two attitudes are not compatible except in minor situations like this one where the actual facts can be papered over.

(full article online)

Israel looks for win-win solutions. Palestinians only want zero-sum wins. Another reason the world cannot understand the Middle East. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Ministry of Education teaches children that arch-terrorist who planned murder of 125 is a hero - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

However, when Saffi left his home for the treatment he was blocked by Hamas. He was taken by ambulance on Wednesday morning for treatment in Ramallah. When he arrived at the Erez Crossing into Israel he was notified by Hamas, which controls the Gazan side of the border, that he could not pass and would be treated at Shifa hospital in the Strip. However, Shifa is not equipped to treat him properly.

It is of significance to note that family members of the Hamas leadership regularly receive treatment in Israel.

(full article online)

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/ey...eceiving-proper-medical-treatment/2019/04/17/


----------



## Hollie

The eternally aggrieved, always comical Islamic terrorists in their man-burqas ski masks are still holding a grudge, something about the Israeli neighborhood watch program that implemented; see--something, do-something. 
*


HAMAS THREATENS ISRAEL 20 YEARS AFTER KILLING OF TERROR GROUP'S FOUNDER*
By TZVI JOFFRE

Hamas threatens Israel 20 years after killing of terror group's founder








Hamas members (photo credit: REUTERS)
"Oh Bush, oh Sharon, we will be victorious," a Hamas member said in the video. "Tomorrow, G-d willing, you will learn that."
In commemoration of the 20th anniversary of the assassination of Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, one of the cofounders of Hamas, terrorist groups in Gaza released a video threatening Israel.

"Oh Bush, oh Sharon, we will be victorious," a Hamas member said in the video. "Tomorrow, Allah willing, you will learn that."



Allah ain’t so willing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans have been complaining about the intersection outside the Maghazi camp for nearly twenty years.

Known locally as the "junction of death," the area has been the scene of many traffic accidents.

Generally, when there are problems of this type, Palestinians know almost subconsciously that they cannot make a big stink about it because the media must be dedicated to bashing Israel and any discussions of internal problems (with the exception of Fatah and Hamas bashing each other) must be muted. Some local Facebook groups or the like are the only way to find out about these sorts of issues; even murders are barely reported.

It is Palestinian omertà, and it is barely reported on.

But after two decades of complaints, these Gazans have had enough and decided to go to the media to pressure the Gaza government - Hamas - to do something.

A traffic light costs $75,000. Hamas spends millions on tunnels, rockets and other weapons - all at the expense of ordinary Gazans.

(full article online)

Hamas has money for rockets and tunnels - but not traffic lights ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

*Top IDF General: Hezbollah Still Plans to Invade Parts of Northern Israel in Future War.*
Hezbollah has not abandoned its plans to invade parts of northern Israel during a future conflict, a top IDF office said in interview excerpts published on Thursday.

“We, of course, will not let that happen,” outgoing GOC Northern Command Maj. Gen. Yoel Strick told the Hebrew news site _Ynet_.

Strick — who is finishing up a two-year stint as the head of the Northern Command — said he had “no doubt” the IDF would win any potential war in the north.

According to Strick, the IDF has been “most effective” in pushing the Iranians back from the border with Israel in southern Syria in recent years.


Strick  also expressed a “high degree of confidence” that the threat posed by Hezbollah-built tunnels under the Israel-Lebanon border was eliminated during Operation Northern Shield this past winter.

He added, “Can they [the tunnels] be developed again? I hope not.”


Top IDF General: Hezbollah Still Plans to Invade Parts of Northern Israel in Future War


----------



## Sixties Fan

The University of Hawaii at Manoa, perhaps unwittingly, helped conceal terrorist Mohammed Rafiq Alareer’s true role on Al-Aqsa TV, the Jew-hating role that made him famous in Gaza, as well as his “day job” as an al-Qassam Brigades soldier.

(full article online)

Dual careers of a Hamas Qassami: Children's program star and terrorist


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, entitled Hamas’istanians are complaining that the UN is not acting fast enough to get their Qatari welfare money. 

*Hamas calls on UN to speed up delivery of Qatari cash aid*

Hamas calls on UN to speed up delivery of Qatari cash aid

Terror group blames bureaucracy at world body for holdup, says some understandings reached with Israel are ‘going well’ 
19 April 2019, 10:57 pm  0






It seems to me that the UN needs to change. 

Maybe the UN needs to be re-titled as the “_Islamic Terrorist Savings and Loan Bank”. _They could issue debit cards so those those poor, entitled Islamic terrorists arent kept waiting for their welfare fraud payments.


----------



## Hollie

"Report on Gazans Studying Hebrew: It Is Important to Know the Language of the Enemy, Understand Israeli Culture" 



There are also reports that the Hamas’istanians plan on building a Synagogue and holding Torah study groups, although, I could be wrong about that.


----------



## Hollie

The celebration on an “anniversary”, of sorts. A year of Islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israel and the Islamic terrorists have achieved nothing.


*Despite setbacks, Hamas' grip on Gaza has never been tighter*

*https://www.foxnews.com/world/despite-setbacks-hamas-grip-on-gaza-has-never-been-tighter*








GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Over the weekend, Gaza's Hamas rulers marked a year of bloody, weekly protests that have failed to break the Israeli blockade. Rocket attacks brought a wave of Israeli airstrikes and unprecedented protests broke out against the Islamic militants' increasingly unpopular rule.


----------



## Hollie

The psychopaths who collectively go by the name “Arab-Pal’istanians” have a new hero as a role model for aspiring Death Cultists.

PMW op-ed: From An Unknown Teenager To A Palestinian Symbol – In Just Two Weeks (Jpost) - PMW Bulletins

*From An Unknown Teenager To A Palestinian Symbol -
 In Just Two Weeks*

Because on that day, he stabbed and murdered Israeli soldier Gal Keidan, and shot and murdered Rabbi Ahiad Ettinger, a father of 12. And then, two days later during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers, he was killed and died as a "Martyr."

This could have been the end of his story, but it wasn't. Within just two weeks after he committed the murders, PA President Mahmoud Abbas and Fatah had already turned murderer Omar Abu Laila into the newest symbol and role model for Palestinians. 




How nice that dead Omar is a symbol of religious indoctrination that manifests itself as a mental disorder. However, dead Omar is just another dead Arab, sacrificed at the Altar of failure and incompetence which largely defines the Arab-Moslem world.


----------



## Hollie

Poor Mahmoud. He is forced to grovel before Arab-Moslem nations, begging for welfare money now that the Great Satan has cut off the welfare dollars he was accustomed to spending on himself and his Islamic terrorist franchise. 

I suspect Mahmoud will have to eventually come to grips with the realization that Arab-Moslem nations have largely lost interest in the forever black hole of welfare fraud that is one or the other of the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza or the West Bank. 

Mahmoud may want to consider converting to Shia’ism and get touchy-feely with the Iranian Mullocrats like their competition in Gaza.  




Abbas: Trump mocking us, Netanyahu sends aid money to Hamas

Speaking at a summit of Arab foreign ministers in Egyptian capital of Cairo, Abbas highlighted the lack of funds to the PA due to US cuts, and asked for a financial safety net that the Arab states have long pledged but never delivered. The 83-year-old added that security cooperation between PA security forces and the CIA continues despite the lack of any diplomatic relations between the Palestinian officials and the Trump administration.


----------



## rylah

*Gazan Comedian Ali Nassman Mocks Qatari Money Transfer to Hamas: Oh Qatar, Send Us Dollars, Diesel*


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Arabs, let the PA sink or swim on its own.  It may teach it to not buy private jets while there are more important things to be paid for. All money which goes down the drain.  I mean.....into Abbas's pocket.....I mean.... ]

The Arab League on Sunday pledged $100 million per month to the Palestinian Authority to make up for funds withheld by Israel because of payments made to the families of Palestinian attackers and prisoners.

Arab League pledges $100 million a month to budget-stricken Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ I have lost count how many times the PA has made this threat ]

Palestinian Authority: We'll retract recognition of Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas' call to combat terror stands in stark contrast to his repeated vows at home to continue his financial support for imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, wounded terrorists, and the families of dead terrorists - no matter what. Abbas has reiterated over and over that the PA will support these terrorists even if the PA has only "one penny left," and has demonstrated his will to do so by cutting salaries of public employees rather than salaries to the terrorists in order to sustain the PA's current financial crisis.

Abbas' response to the terror in Sri Lanka is strikingly similar to his recent outreach speech to American university students:

*"We will not choose a path other than negotiations... We believe in peace and believe in security for everyone... We made agreements with 83 states in the world... on one issue: the war on terror in the world, terror in all its forms, variations, and sources."*
[Official PA TV, March 24, 2019]

However, Palestinian Media Watch exposed the Palestinian leader's hypocrisy. The day before Abbas' speech, his Fatah deputy Mahmoud Al-Aloul announced to Palestinians that terrorist Omar Abu Laila - who murdered two Israelis a week earlier - "represents all young Palestinians," and that Abbas' own Fatah Movement is "proud" of him:

*"We are extremely proud,* this is Omar Abu Laila, who implemented his choice, who implemented the people's choice... through which *he represents all of you, represents all young Palestinians."*
[Official Fatah Facebook page, March 23, 2019]

PMW further documented how the PA and Fatah have turned the same murderer into a Palestinian symbol and hero.

(full article online)

Abbas condemns Sri Lanka terror but never condemns terror against Israelis  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a cabinet session today, Palestinian Authority prime minister Mohammad Ashtiyeh spoke about a  decision to stop medical transfers to Israeli hospitals and instead to send patients to Arab countries.

"Delegations were sent to Egypt and Jordan to study the start of remittances to Arab countries and to dispense with remittances to Israel," he said.

This would involve significant delays for the patients themselves.  Not to mention that the hospital facilities in Arab countries are inferior to Israel's.

Which means that the main reason for this decision in not what is best for Palestinians but what is considered "honorable." Saving patients' lives is shameful, if Jews have anything to do with it.

The appeal to honor, and to avoid shame, is so important to Palestinian leaders that they have started to rename President Trump's "deal of the century" to the "deal of shame" in their media in order to stop any chance that some reasonable Palestinians might publicly support it.

Honor/shame dynamic: Palestinians to send patients to Arab hospitals instead of Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ I have lost count how many times the PA has made this threat ]
> 
> Palestinian Authority: We'll retract recognition of Israel



Its almost like they are deliberately trying to ruin any possible chance of another Palestinian state.  Could they be any more stupid?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ I have lost count how many times the PA has made this threat ]
> 
> Palestinian Authority: We'll retract recognition of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its almost like they are deliberately trying to ruin any possible chance of another Palestinian state.  Could they be any more stupid?
Click to expand...

In reality, this is what they have been working for since 1920.
No Israel, with a possibility for a Muslim Caliphate.

The 3 NOs.

It is all for show for their followers.
Be tough on Israel.....but do nothing.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ I have lost count how many times the PA has made this threat ]
> 
> Palestinian Authority: We'll retract recognition of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its almost like they are deliberately trying to ruin any possible chance of another Palestinian state.  Could they be any more stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In reality, this is what they have been working for since 1920.
> No Israel, with a possibility for a Muslim Caliphate.
> 
> The 3 NOs.
> 
> It is all for show for their followers.
> Be tough on Israel.....but do nothing.
Click to expand...


Sure.  But do they really want to turn themselves into the point of the sword with which the Caliphate will poke Israel?  Why would they do that?  Oh yeah.  Because there is honor in martyrdom.  I forgot.


----------



## Hollie

The Crips and Bloods with Korans angry Islamists from the competing mini-caliphates are fast approaching a resumption of their earlier shooting war. 



PA uncovers Hamas operation to spy on its security systems

PA uncovers Hamas operation to spy on its security systems.


Agents infiltrated Palestinian Authority framework and reported back to Gaza; operation uncovered two months ago aimed to weaken PA security framework; sources say all Hamas agents in custody
Elior Levy|Published:  04.23.19 , 10:03 
Facebook and Twitter 


This operation, executed by senior Hamas officials in Gaza and the Hamas leadership abroad, was uncovered two months ago. According to Palestinian reports, all of the Hamas agents are under arrest.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The piece shows that some Palestinians are rethinking the ideology that has fueled a century-long war on Zionism. But they also don’t mention a basic fact that defines the current situation: The Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected compromises that would have given them the statehood they claim to want. It’s interesting that nowhere in the 1,000-word article does the Times take notice of this fact.

This omission speaks volumes not only about the ignorance and obtuse nature of the criticism of Israel that emanates from the paper, but also about the chattering classes and foreign-policy establishment that take their cues about the Middle East from its pages.

(full article online)

Who denied the Palestinians an independent state? Not Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab media understood this to be tantamount to a rejection of the Trump deal, but the statement did not go nearly as far as Abbas wanted.

Sources say that Bahrain didn't even want the word "deal" mentioned in the final statement.

Interestingly, the final statement mentioned compensation for Palestinian refugees but not return.

The final statement was also watered down by Lebanon which added demands that Israel give up the Shebaa Farms and other areas that Hezbollah demands, even though the UN certified that Israel withdrew completely from Lebanon. In addition, it  demanded that Palestinian leaders to get their act together, "calling on the Palestinian factions and forces to speed up the completion of national reconciliation."

The Hamas/Fatah split is nearly 12 years old now.

As far as the monthly $100 million that the League pledged to make up the budget shortfall, it sounds like these are more empty promises, which we have seen many times in the past. Arab pledges to help Palestinians are often not backed up with actual cash. Sources say that "many countries may not be committed to these (payments)  because of their financial crises or the absence of a political decision to provide support for Palestine."

(full article online)

Abbas did not get what he wanted from the Arab League ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Olmert offered Abbas 20 sq.km more than size of West Bank, according to PLO Chief Negotiator


----------



## Sixties Fan

Opinion | Care About Gaza? Blame Hamas


----------



## Ropey

Discuss.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Ropey said:


> Discuss.



“ Palestine” was a territory; it was never a Country


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ I have lost count how many times the PA has made this threat ]
> 
> Palestinian Authority: We'll retract recognition of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its almost like they are deliberately trying to ruin any possible chance of another Palestinian state.  Could they be any more stupid?
Click to expand...


They have been doing that since before Arafat


----------



## Ropey

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ Palestine” was a territory; it was never a Country
Click to expand...

It was never a territory.

It was a partition of empires attempting to end Israel. Israel has two friends. The military and G-d.

No more games.

We're too close.


----------



## Mindful

Ropey said:


> Discuss.



Because there's no discussion.


----------



## Mindful

*The Persecution of Palestinians No one Mentions.*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
*

*The Persecution of Palestinians No One Mentions*


In Lebanon, Palestinians have long been facing discriminatory and "Apartheid laws" that deny them basic rights, including access to dozens of skilled professions, health-care and education services. According to some reports, thousands of Palestinians have been fleeing Lebanon in recent years as a result of the dire economic conditions and government regulations that deny them basic rights.


In 2015, a Saudi court sentenced Palestinian artist and poet Ashraf Fayadh to death by beheading for "apostasy." Later, however, the court overturned the death sentence and replaced it with an eight-year prison term and 800 lashes. The "evidence" against Fayadh was based on poems included in his book _Instructions Within_, as well as social media posts and conversations he had in a coffee shop in Saudi Arabia.


Palestinian leaders do not seem to care about the suffering of their people at the hands of Arabs. Yet, these same leaders are quick to condemn Israel on almost every occasion and available platform. Palestinian leaders in the West Bank and Gaza Strip are so busy fighting each other (and Israel) that they seem to have forgotten about the Palestinians in Arab countries, being killed, wounded and arrested every day.


----------



## xband

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...


College is reserved for losers and Elizabeth Warren is a loser, par excellence.


----------



## Mindful

xband said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> College is reserved for losers and Elizabeth Warren is a loser, par excellence.
Click to expand...


She doesn't think she is.

We're living in the days of the super ego.


----------



## xband

Mindful said:


> xband said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> College is reserved for losers and Elizabeth Warren is a loser, par excellence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She doesn't think she is.
> 
> We're living in the days of the super ego.
Click to expand...

 
Super-Ego is Sigmund Freud who got debunked many decades ago. Id runs my life and Ego is out in left field.


----------



## Mindful

xband said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xband said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> College is reserved for losers and Elizabeth Warren is a loser, par excellence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She doesn't think she is.
> 
> We're living in the days of the super ego.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Super-Ego is Sigmund Freud who got debunked many decades ago. Id runs my life and Ego is out in left field.
Click to expand...


I'm fighting mine every day.


----------



## Mindful

"We are suckers because we didn't send our children to stab a Jew!" This is the education that the Palestinians leaders have been providing since 1965.








On July 23, 2018, at a ceremony honoring Palestinian terrorists, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said: "We will neither reduce nor withhold the allowances of the families of martyrs, prisoners, and released prisoners... if we had one single penny left, we would spend it on the families of the martyrs and the prisoners." (Image source: MEMRI)


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ Palestine” was a territory; it was never a Country
Click to expand...

Link?

Of course not. No link to BS.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ Palestine” was a territory; it was never a Country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not. No link to BS.
Click to expand...


lol.

Is that the best you can come up with?


----------



## Mindful

Can you answer any of the quiz questions, Tinmore?


----------



## Hollie

Poking fun at islamic dictatorships is going to end badly. 

Although, with Hamas ranked as the No. 2 richest islamic terrorist organization, what economic hardships are Arabs-Moslems enduring?

HAMAS ARRESTS GAZA COMEDIAN WHO PROTESTED ECONOMIC HARDSHIP

Hamas arrests Gaza comedian who protested economic hardship


----------



## Hollie

I suppose that bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats has the benefit of those easy Shia finance payments.  


Hamas has developed a vast arsenal in blockaded Gaza

Over more than a decade, the Islamic militant Hamas group has built up a large arsenal of rockets and missiles. It started with crude short-range projectiles and now possesses rockets that can strike virtually anywhere in Israel.




Hamas may need more Iranian / UN welfare money to build schools and mosques to store their weapons.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The people in the West Bank who have taken up arms, gone to jail or spent their lives working, praying or waiting for self-determination are now asking whether all that time, effort and emotion were for naught,” the sad Halbfinger and Berger report says, noting that “in Hizma, a crowded village near Jerusalem almost completely ringed by Jewish settlements, Jahd Abu Helew, 42, has begun to contemplate what giving up on a state would mean for his five children.”

“‘The years before the PA came were better,’ he says of the Palestinian Authority, which has governed parts of the West Bank since 1995. Before that, residents were still under Israeli occupation but had more freedom of movement. He dismisses the authority as Israeli-owned, largely because of how much Palestinian security forces do, in his view, to aid Israeli control. Life is only getting worse, he said.”

And his mother, Najah, 61, “would settle for living under Israeli sovereignty with equal rights. At least it would be a ‘normal’ life, she said.”

Brothers Rameh and Rand Musmar, 31 and 35 respectively, who come from a family well connected to anti-Israeli terrorism, are disillusioned about the prospects of the 2-state solution. “Most of the people in my family, they’re seeing Oslo as dying, finished,” Rameh said. Rand said, “We should make peace. That’s it. We are lying to ourselves, and they are lying too. They are lying about the history, and we are lying about the reality. We’re always saying, ‘We’re strong, we’re still alive, we should fight till our last breath.’ No — this is wrong.”

(full article online)

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/ey...or-for-the-barriers-against-peace/2019/04/22/


----------



## Hollie

I have this feeling that Yahya Sinwar feels slighted because he doesn't have a presidential jet. 


*Israel says Hamas using imported goods to launder money*

*Israel says Hamas using imported goods to launder money*

An April 11 report by Israel’s Channel 12 has exposed a method Hamas allegedly uses to smuggle funds between the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and abroad. The report claims Hamas imports goods from abroad and resells them in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, keeping all the profits.




Money for the gee-had doesn't just fall off the UN welfare scam tree, ya' know?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

How terrorists smuggle phones into prison


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas's remarks at the Arab League gathering in Cairo demonstrate his preference for the well-being of terrorists over the ability of hard-working employees to put bread on the table for their families. These payments to terrorists and their families lie at the heart of Palestinian incitement to terror that drives the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


If anyone is collectively punishing the Palestinians, it is Abbas himself. He is depriving tens of thousands of families of full salaries, thus preventing them from purchasing food for their children or paying various fees, including rent and university tuition. A Palestinian civil service employee who sends his son to university does not get a full salary. A Palestinian whose son sets out to murder a Jew is entitled to a full salary and earns more respect from Palestinian leaders.


What message is Abbas sending to his people? That those who wish to eat had better turn to terror. The families of the public employees who are now unable to pay their grocery bill and rent are now looking at the families of the terrorists with envy. They must be saying to themselves: "We are suckers because we didn't send our children to stab a Jew!" This is the education that the Palestinians leaders have been providing since 1965.

(full article online)


How Palestinian Leaders Encourage Terrorism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Superficial Sarsour: NYC’s Anti-Israel It Girl Misses the Mark - The Tower


----------



## Mindful

Here we go again! “Jesus, born in Bethlehem, was most likely a Palestinian man with dark skin.” Jesus was NOT a Palestinian. Jesus was a Jewish man, born into the tribe of Judah. This false narrative stems from the self-styled “Kairos Palestine” document launched in Bethlehem on December 11, 2009 in order to neutralize support of Christians for Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestinian" Arabs Expose the Shocking Truth about Refugees & UNRWA


----------



## Hollie

The warring tribes haven’t yet resumed the street shootings, kidnapping and torture that defined their earlier civil war but they’re close. It doesn’t appear that it will take much to start a shooting war.


*Hamas reveals names of intelligence officers and agents involved in sabotage plan in Gaza: Egypt arrested one of them*

Hamas reveals names of intelligence officers and agents involved in sabotage plan in Gaza: Egypt arrested one of them

April 26, 2019 at 1:02 am | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine





The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) has informed official authorities in a number of Arab and Islamic countries of a “sabotage” plan for the situation in the Gaza Strip.

Private sources told _Quds Press_ on Thursday that the General Intelligence Service of the Palestinian Authority (directly affiliated with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas), headed by Major General Majid Faraj, is leading the sabotage plan.

Hamas has handed over to the official authorities a list of the officers involved in the plan, most of whom are concentrated in the West Bank, some outside, as well as agents residing outside Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

I guess the Arabs-Moslems just presume their UN sponsored entitlement is open ended. 

I just have this image of islamic terrorist buffoons waiting in line for their welfare entitlement. 


*Hamas: We do not know why the UN delays work projects*

Hamas: We do not know why the UN delays work projects

Member of Hamas’ Political Bureau Khalil Al-Hayya yesterday questioned why the UN is delaying the implementation of work creation programmes.

Speaking to _Al-Ghad Al-Jadeed_, Al-Hayya said that the implementation of the terms of the truce understandings with Israel are going smoothly.

However, “some terms are going through slowly,” pointing to the programme aimed at creating temporary work opportunities for unemployed Gazans.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas Plays Whack-a-Mole Crypto Wallet While Raising $7,400 in Bitcoin

*Hamas Plays Whack-a-Mole Crypto Wallet 
While Raising $7,400 in Bitcoin*

By CCN.com: The military wing of Hamas, Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades, is upping its crypto game by soliciting bitcoin in a bid to deter tracking.

With its crowdfunding operation using cryptocurrencies having attracted undue attention, Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades is now generating a new digital wallet for every donation received. This is according to research conducted by blockchain analysis firm Elliptic and reported by Reuters.




At some point, Infidel'istan is going to step in and play 
*Whack-a-Muhammud* to put an end to this.


----------



## Hollie

The angry, wannabe caliphate'ists in the Fatah tribe have delivered an ultimatum to the competing buffoons in the Kingdom of Sinwar.

I think caliber of weapons and volume of fire is the resolution for these angry, pious Dark Agers. 


*Fatah to Hamas: Last chance for reconciliation*
April 17, 2019 at 12:19 pm
_
Home







Head of Fatah delegation to reconciliation talks Azzam Al-Ahmad arrived in Egypt yesterday and sent a message to Hamas indicating that this is the “last chance” for talks, Al-Watan Voice reported.
_


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

At first, I thought this was an odd occurrence!  But, looking back over the last 100 years the preferred method used by the → Hostile Arab Palestinians → and assumes violence over negotiations and diplomacy.



			
				Palestinian Statements said:
			
		

> ◈  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
> 
> ◈  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
> 
> ◈   Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it.​





Hollie said:


> The angry, wannabe caliphate'ists in the Fatah tribe have delivered an ultimatum to the competing buffoons in the Kingdom of Sinwar.
> 
> I think caliber of weapons and volume of fire is the resolution for these angry, pious Dark Agers.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fatah to Hamas: Last chance for reconciliation"*
> April 17, 2019 at 12:19 pm
> _Head of Fatah delegation to reconciliation talks Azzam Al-Ahmad arrived in Egypt yesterday and sent a message to Hamas indicating that this is the “last chance” for talks, Al-Watan Voice reported._​


*(COMMENT)*

I don't think that violence is anymore a way for life for members of Fatah than it is for members of HAMAS.  It is a_* common characteristic and trait*_ of Arab Palestinians → generational to all Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  Violence → is ingrained in every fiber of their being, passed on from generation → to → generation through the parents and the Islamic Martyr system of dedications and rewards for acts of terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> At first, I thought this was an odd occurrence!  But, looking back over the last 100 years the preferred method used by the → Hostile Arab Palestinians → and assumes violence over negotiations and diplomacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Statements said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ◈  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
> 
> ◈  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
> 
> ◈   Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The angry, wannabe caliphate'ists in the Fatah tribe have delivered an ultimatum to the competing buffoons in the Kingdom of Sinwar.
> 
> I think caliber of weapons and volume of fire is the resolution for these angry, pious Dark Agers.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fatah to Hamas: Last chance for reconciliation"*
> April 17, 2019 at 12:19 pm
> _Head of Fatah delegation to reconciliation talks Azzam Al-Ahmad arrived in Egypt yesterday and sent a message to Hamas indicating that this is the “last chance” for talks, Al-Watan Voice reported._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think that violence is anymore a way for life for members of Fatah than it is for members of HAMAS.  It is a_* common characteristic and trait*_ of Arab Palestinians → generational to all Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  Violence → is ingrained in every fiber of their being, passed on from generation → to → generation through the parents and the Islamic Martyr system of dedications and rewards for acts of terrorism.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are talking about Palestine's so called leadership. The Palestinians are going past them leaving them behind.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> At first, I thought this was an odd occurrence!  But, looking back over the last 100 years the preferred method used by the → Hostile Arab Palestinians → and assumes violence over negotiations and diplomacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Statements said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ◈  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
> 
> ◈  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
> 
> ◈   Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The angry, wannabe caliphate'ists in the Fatah tribe have delivered an ultimatum to the competing buffoons in the Kingdom of Sinwar.
> 
> I think caliber of weapons and volume of fire is the resolution for these angry, pious Dark Agers.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fatah to Hamas: Last chance for reconciliation"*
> April 17, 2019 at 12:19 pm
> _Head of Fatah delegation to reconciliation talks Azzam Al-Ahmad arrived in Egypt yesterday and sent a message to Hamas indicating that this is the “last chance” for talks, Al-Watan Voice reported._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think that violence is anymore a way for life for members of Fatah than it is for members of HAMAS.  It is a_* common characteristic and trait*_ of Arab Palestinians → generational to all Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  Violence → is ingrained in every fiber of their being, passed on from generation → to → generation through the parents and the Islamic Martyr system of dedications and rewards for acts of terrorism.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are talking about Palestine's so called leadership. The Palestinians are going past them leaving them behind.
Click to expand...


That’s so silly.


----------



## Hollie

I’m not convinced the linked article is a fair assessment of the Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Int. Inc. 

By the standards of Islamic terrorist dictatorships, Hamas is just an average, theocratic totalitarian nightmare. As a criminal enterprise, they have managed better than others but that is only because they are a part of an established, UN sponsored welfare fraud scheme. 



*Human rights group documents Hamas abuses*

Human rights group documents Hamas abuses

Entsar Abu Jahal April 26, 2019 





ARTICLE SUMMARY
Arrests in the Gaza Strip point at Hamas' harsh treatment of protesters and its civil rights violations.

 REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa
Palestinian security forces loyal to Hamas take up positions during an operation in the central Gaza Strip, March 22, 2018.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Al Mezan Center for Human Rights released April 23 a "fact sheet" on violations of the people’s rights to assemble peacefully, express opinions and not be subject to arbitrary detention in the Gaza Strip.

The information presented was gathered between March 1, 2018, and March 1, 2019, as part of an EU-funded project to document rights abuses and promote compliance with international law.

The statement indicates that the Hamas government security service in the Gaza Strip summoned, arrested and detained 742 people, including five women, as they were exercising their rights, because of their political affiliations. The fact sheet reports bans on media coverage of protests and restrictions on the press, as well as theatrical and drama productions deemed to be anti-government


----------



## Hollie

In the realm of the Islamic Death Cult, mere rumor or suspicion is enough to whack a family member. 

Palestinian family shoot dead relative believed to be spying for Israel


----------



## Hollie

Say it with me: Awwww, _those Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians™️


A coastline, a university, a gold market and a beautiful view. We visit 5 places in Gaza that many have not seen before
_
Twitter


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. An Islamic terrorist “summit”. 

The Hamas Death Cultists are in a  bit of a panic. Any peace deal would suggest that the islsmic terrorist franchises put an end to attacks aimed at Israel. The Islamic terrorists would be required to accept the role of government and that is not in the cards for Hamas. With the UNRWA welfare fraud still supporting the islsmic terrorist networks, Hamas will want to maintain the status quo. 



*Hamas hosts Palestinian summit to unite against Trump 'deal of the century’*
i24NEWS

i24NEWS






Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh speaks to the delegation of Palestinian political factions at a summit titled "United against the Deal of the Century" in Gaza City on April 27, 2019.
Hamas is looking to present a united Palestinian front against the imminent US peace plan

Hamas on Saturday held a national meeting with political leaders from various factions in Gaza to address “dangers” to the Palestinian cause, chief among them the soon to be released US peace plan, which the Trump administration has dubbed the “deal of the century.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> Gee whiz. An Islamic terrorist “summit”.
> 
> The Hamas Death Cultists are in a  bit of a panic. Any peace deal would suggest that the islsmic terrorist franchises put an end to attacks aimed at Israel. The Islamic terrorists would be required to accept the role of government and that is not in the cards for Hamas. With the UNRWA welfare fraud still supporting the islsmic terrorist networks, Hamas will want to maintain the status quo.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas hosts Palestinian summit to unite against Trump 'deal of the century’*
> i24NEWS
> 
> i24NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh speaks to the delegation of Palestinian political factions at a summit titled "United against the Deal of the Century" in Gaza City on April 27, 2019.
> Hamas is looking to present a united Palestinian front against the imminent US peace plan
> 
> Hamas on Saturday held a national meeting with political leaders from various factions in Gaza to address “dangers” to the Palestinian cause, chief among them the soon to be released US peace plan, which the Trump administration has dubbed the “deal of the century.”


And they do not even know what is IN the plan to have a summit about it.

Let me guess:

The *1967 Arab League summit* was held on August 29 in Khartoum as the fourth Arab League Summit. The summit came in the aftermath of the Arab defeat to Israel in the Six-Day War and is famous for its Khartoum Resolutionknown as "The Three No's";* No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.*[1] The summit also resolved that the "oil-rich Arab states" give financial aid to the states who lost the war and to "help them rebuild their military forces."[2] The final communique of the meeting "underscored the Palestinians' right to regain the whole of Palestine—that is, to destroy the State of Israel."[3] The outcome of this summit influenced Israeli foreign policy for decades.[4]

1967 Arab League summit - Wikipedia


----------



## Sixties Fan

Residents of a predominately Christian village in the West Bank have appealed to the Palestinian Authority to provide protection for them after they were attacked by a group of Palestinian gunmen.

The residents of Jifna, north of Ramallah, said the attack came following a dispute between a woman from the village and the son of a prominent Palestinian figure affiliated with the PA’s ruling Fatah faction.

(full article online)

Gunmen attack Christians near Ramallah after dispute involving PA official


----------



## Sixties Fan

The woman, Waheba Issa Dai, “tried to recruit ISIS supporters to carry out attacks and provided them with information on making explosives and biological weapons,” according to the prosecutors. She also “used hacked social media accounts to discuss possible attacks with self-proclaimed members of the IS.”

Since a terrorist’s nationality is often relevant to their motives for carrying out terrorism, you would think that the media would have mentioned that Dai is a Palestinian Arab. No such luck.

The _Associated Press_ mentioned—all the way down in paragraph 7—that Dai was “born in Jerusalem.” USA Today called her “a native of Jerusalem.” But neither of them acknowledged her identity as a Palestinian Arab. Which is interesting, because when Palestinian Arabs in Jerusalem protest something, the American media always describe them as Palestinians. You don’t see stories headlined “People Born in Jerusalem Accuse Israel of Persecuting Them.”

Yet suddenly, when one of those “Jerusalemites” does something out of Israel that reflects badly on Palestinian Arabs, she is stripped of her Palestinian Arab identity by the news media.

(full article online)

Just don't call her a Palestinian Arab! US media plays a game


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied for another Arab-Moslem low-life.

He can do his prayers to Mecca over the toilet, past the yard from cell block C. 


*Israel Arrests Hamas Member Who Planned Suicide Attack Near Election Day *

Israel arrests Hamas member who planned suicide attack near Election Day

Shin Bet security service say 23-year-old Palestinian planned to attack civilians and soldiers near Jerusalem


----------



## Hollie

*1,350 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO sees Jews visiting the Temple Mount - Judaism’s holiest site - as similar to Muslims massacring Christians in churches in Sri Lanka during Easter. 

The Palestinian National Council - the PLO’s legislative body - has compared “the deviant ideology” behind the mass murder of hundreds of Christians by Muslims in suicide bombings in Sri Lanka on Easter Sunday to “the ideology that causes settlers to break into the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.” 

In a strategy to try to keep Jews away from the Temple Mount, the Palestinian Authority and its leaders have declared the entire Temple Mount a part of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and exclusively an Islamic site. To support this claim they vilify any presence of Jews on the mount as a “desecration,"  “defilement," "break-in," or “invasion” of the mosque. 

This PA ideology has led to the odious comparison. The Palestinian National Council announced that the murder of more than 250 people in churches and hotels in Sri Lanka is similar to Jews visiting the Temple Mount.

The PNC described the attacks in Sri Lanka as “immoral and contrary to religious and human values,” and similar to the ideology that makes Jewish “settlers” “break in” to the Al-Aqsa Mosque:

(full article online)

PLO: Mass murder of Christians by Muslims in Sri Lanka is same as Jewish presence on Temple Mount - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had gone wrong. Another mentally defective Arab-Moslem off the streets.

*Shin Bet: Hamas planned suicide car bombing around Israeli election*

Shin Bet: Hamas planned suicide car bombing around Israeli election


“In his interrogation by the Shin Bet, Abu Dia said he was in touch with senior Hamas members in the Gaza Strip using the internet, had been recruited for military activities, and agreed to carry out missions and act as a suicide bomber,” the Shin Bet said.


----------



## Hollie

Because the UNRWA welfare fraud is just too good to pass up. 




Palestinians launch bid to foil "deal of the century"

Fatah urges Hamas to join effort against Trump's plan.
The Palestinian leadership will soon dispatch delegations to several countries as part of its effort to rally support for its opposition to US President Donald Trump’s upcoming plan for peace in the Middle East, also known as the “deal of the century.”

Palestinian officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that the delegations will also brief world leaders on the measures the Palestinian leadership intends to take in response to Trump’s plan and Israeli “violations” of agreements signed with the Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Once upon a time, the Arab world was intent in destroying Israel.  Then Israel survived and the PLO and PA did nothing but turn the lives of their populations into hell and enrich their pockets.
And they want more help from their Arab brothers where that money continues to find itself not where it needs to go......?
And then Abbas and Hamas cry.......
It is really hard to watch two professed terrorists, in search of a way to destroy Israel......crying that their Arab brethren are not with them anymore?
Wherefore are thou, my brothers?  ]


Abbas says he doubts Arab world will help Palestinians in financial crisis


----------



## Sixties Fan

The annual meeting in Europe of the “International donor group for Palestine” comes tomorrow as the Palestinian Authority is experiencing a major financial crisis. The PA has announced that it will be turning to the international community and asking for significant funding.

However, before assisting the PA, the international community must recognize that the entire financial crisis is self-inflicted by the PA, in two different ways. 

*1. The PA returned 630 million shekels ($186 million) that Israel transferred to its account* 

Under Israeli law, Israel must deduct the amount that the PA pays to terrorist prisoners and their families every month from the tax money that it collects and transfers to the PA. Based on what the PA expended last year rewarding terrorists, as exposed by Palestinian Media Watch in January this year, Israel is now deducting $11.6 million (42 million shekels) per month from $186 million (670 million shekels) tax money that it collects and transfers to the PA. Losing this $11.6 million would not have caused a financial crisis. However, the PA made a decision that if Israel withheld the $11.6 million the PA spends rewarding terrorists - it would refuse to accept the entire $175 million transfer from Israel. 

Meeting with both French and other EU representatives, PLO Executive Committee Secretary and Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat reiterated “the Palestinian leadership’s decision not to receive the [$175 million] tax money if the [$11.6 million] deduction is carried out.” [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 22, 2019]

(full article online)

The PA is begging Europe for money – but it doesn’t need a penny more in aid - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza leaders hold large meeting against "Deal of the Century" - without an audience ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ghassan Daghlas, the man that the Palestinian Authority literally pays to make up lies about Jews in the territories, does his job for this article:

 "The occupation has worked to close the streets and the Ibrahimi Mosque for three days to protect the entry of more than 40 thousand settlers," he said, adding that about 2,000 people stormed the city of Jerusalem last Thursday."

 "We are dealing with generations of settlers who say this is my birthplace and my birthplace is here," he said. "The problem with the new generations is exacerbated by the Israelis teaching their children."



The Cave of the Patriarchs is open for exclusive Jewish use ten days of the year. It is open for exclusive Muslim use ten days of the year as well. Those days are published in existing agreements, and the schedule for 2019 can be seen here. Nothing to do with Bibi or the elections.

And this happens every time the site is closed to Muslims as per the agreement - Arab media complains about how Israel is taking over the site.

(full article online)

As usual, the Palestinian Authority lies about Jews taking over the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"We reject normalization and adopt the approach of resistance until the liberation of the entire Palestinian territory." — Statement rejecting job offers, issued by Progressive Democratic Student Pole, affiliated with the radical PLO group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).


"Resistance" is a term used by Palestinians to describe the "armed struggle" against Israel, which includes carrying out various forms of armed attacks against Israelis. When the students talk about the "liberation of the entire Palestinian territory," they are actually saying that they want to destroy Israel because they do not believe in its right to exist.


A video of the protest at Bir Zeit University posted on social media shows dozens of angry students surrounding the companies' representatives, and chanting: "Normalization [with Israel] is Treason."


This is just another example of how the movement for boycotting Israel is causing damage to Palestinians. Perhaps the real motive of the people promoting these boycotts of Israel is not to help the Palestinians at all, but, like terrorist groups, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, to destroy Israel.

(full article online)

The Palestinians' Own Goals


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Sounds like the good ol' days ]

Christian residents of the town of Jifnah in the Palestinian Authority (PA) were attacked by Fatah activists and were forced to pay the Jizyah ransom tax after a local woman complained to the police about the son of a senior Fatah official.

Christians Violently Attacked by Palestinian Forces, Forced to Pay Special ‘Tax’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What do they want?  Not Jobs.
What do they want?  Not Peace.
What do they want ?    ........  ]


“Our comrades protested the participation of some technology companies involved in normalization, and which contribute to the ‘economic peace’ project during the Annual Hiring Day hosted by Bir Zeit University,” the statement said. It claimed that the Palestinian companies were doing business with “Zionist companies involved in crimes.”

“Our colleagues asked the delegates of these companies to leave the university campus, as part of a commitment from our comrades to resist normalization [with Israel] and our absolute rejection of the university’s involvement in any normalization activity that would harm the reputation of the university and the struggles of its students. We reject normalization and adopt the approach of resistance until the liberation of the entire Palestinian territory.”

This statement shows that for the Palestinian students, “resistance and the liberation of the entire Palestinian territory” is more important than providing badly needed jobs for unemployed university graduates. “Resistance” is a term used by Palestinians to describe the “armed struggle” against Israel, which includes carrying out various forms of armed attacks against Israelis. When the students talk about the “liberation of the entire Palestinian territory,” they are actually saying that they want to destroy Israel because they do not believe in its right to exist.

This, by the way, is the same rhetoric used by Hamas and Islamic Jihad, two groups that also deny Israel’s right to exit.

*Company Reps Escorted Off Campus*
Ahmed Atawneh, a representative of another student group called Student Unity Bloc, defended the decision to expel the company representative from campus. “The students of Bir Zeit University, which is also called University of the Martyrs, reject the presence of companies engaged in normalization with the occupation on our campus,” he said. University security personnel and officials escorted the representatives of the companies out of campus.”

The only student group that has come out against the expulsion of the companies from the university campus is the Shabiba Student Movement, which is affiliated with President Mahmoud Abbas’s ruling Fatah faction. The group’s students, however, failed to take any measures to stop their colleagues from offending and intimidating the company representatives who came to offer them jobs.

(full article online)

Opinion: The Goals of Palestinian Students


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Chairman Abbas always claims to international audiences that he seeks peace. Yet on Palestinian “Prisoner’s Day,” Abbas sent Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki to represent him at an event arranged by Fatah in Bethlehem to honor the relatives of the “heroic” terrorist prisoners.

On stage with Abbas’ representative were several masked men wearing military uniforms, armed with automatic rifles. 

Do they look like peace-seekers? 

Posters at the event displayed pictures of numerous terrorist prisoners including at least two terrorist murderers: Marwan Barghouti who planned attacks in which 5 Israelis were murdered and Khalil Jabarin who murdered Ari Fuld, a father of 4, last year. 






_Marwan Barghouti (circled) - convicted of planning attacks 
in which 5 Israelis were murdered 
_




_Khalil Jabarin (circled)
- murdered Israeli American Ari Fuld, a father of four _

Were they peace-seekers?

Palestinian Media Watch has reported on other statements by Zaki, which document that he is the opposite of a peace-seeker.

Zaki has explained the PA’s long-term strategy. He has said that his and Mahmoud Abbas’ goal is to destroy Israel in stages - the first of which is forcing Israel to withdraw to the 1967 lines - so that Israel will come to an end: 

(full article online)

Palestinian peace-seekers? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ He is a citizen of Jordan?  Dual loyalty? ]


The PA president, and his sons, hold Jordanian passports and citizenship allowing them to purchase real estate in Jordan without any red tape that foreigners usually have to go through. as far as I know, he is still a Jordanian citizen.

Abbas held meetings with John Kerry in his Jordanian villa during the Obama administration.

His Jordanian national number (as of 2011) is  93-3000-254.

Mahmoud Abbas likes to style himself as the President of the State of Palestine. How many world leaders are citizens of other countries?

Mahmoud Abbas has property in Jordan, including a huge villa. (He's also a citizen.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Dhimmi status assigned to non-Islamists has a history going back to ancient Islamist times and tales. The jizya is a discriminatory tax or penalty assessed against non-islamics and has a long history in islamic fascism. 
*

Christians in PA Attacked by Fatah, Forced to Pay Muslim Tax

Christians in PA Attacked by Fatah, Forced to Pay Muslim Tax
*
Christian residents of the village of Jifnah in the Palestinian Authority (PA) were attacked by Fatah activists and were forced to pay the Muslim Jizyah ransom tax after a local woman complained to the police about the son of a senior Fatah official.


----------



## Hollie

The politburo mouthpieces in Mahmoud'istan may be preparing for an incursion into Lebanon. It would be interesting to see if the Iranians ordered their occupation army (Hezbollah), to defend the camp. 

That could set up a rockin' gee-had pitting Sunni vs. Shia. 


*Fear as Fatah threatens Ain al-Hilweh raid after killing*

Fear as Fatah threatens Ain al-Hilweh raid after killing






SIDON, Lebanon: The Fatah Movement Monday threatened to launch a raid in the Ain al-Hilweh Palestinian refugee camp to apprehend the suspected killer of one of its members, sparking fear of destructive clashes in the camp.

Mohammad Nazih Khalil, known as Abu al-Kel, was fatally shot Friday afternoon while on his way to visit a friend in the camp’s Hettin neighborhood.

The suspected killer was later identified as Fatah al-Islam-affiliated I.A.Kh., who is believed to be hiding out in Hettin. The neighborhood is dominated by the “Muslim Shabab” group, formed of members of Fatah al-Islam and Jund al-Sham.


----------



## Hollie

They do this because they’re psychopaths who share a common illness. 

It’s a societal structure that spends they’re every waking moment living their illness. 


"Gaza Activist Maryam Abu Moussa: We Will Throw Jews into Ditches Like Hitler; Trump's End Will Come At the Hand of a Palestinian Boy" 

_Thaqalayn TV, which is based in Lebanon and Turkey, aired an interview with Gaza Return March Activist Maryam Abu Moussa on April 24, 2019. In the interview Abu Moussa said that the Palestinians will soon bury the Jews in the” ditches of Hitler”. She claimed that when Hitler ordered the Russians to dig ditches to bury the Jews in World War II, they refused to do so because they were “humane”. Conversely, she claims that when Hitler ordered the Jews to bury the Russians in ditches, “they did so immediately.” According to Abu Moussa, Hitler said to the Russians: “I wanted you to know the truth about those Jews and why I burn them.” She added that “they do not believe in the humanity of people, so how could they be expected to believe in the humanity of the Palestinians?” Abu Moussa continued to say that if the Jews get their hands on the Golan Heights “the entire Arab world will be grabbed by Israel overnight.” Abu Moussa accused the Arabs of making fools of the Palestinians. She pledged that the Palestinian people will restore the honor of the Islamic nation and liberate Palestine and the rest of the Arab world. Abu Moussa concluded with a threat to US President Donald Trump: “Your end will come at the hand of a Palestinian boy.” She added: “Allah willing, we will soon pelt you with shoes.”_


----------



## Hollie

I can’t say I really understand the Israeli decision not to respond forcefully to the latest Islamic terrorist gee-had attacks. 

I would think a gradual escalation of the breadth of response would be the appropriate action. 

I suspect that Iranian welfare money and weapons donated to Hamas and Islamic gee-had comes with the condition that they will use those resources to attack Israel. 

Israel, by not responding, is not going to lessen the attacks. 



*In Shift, Israel Refrains From Hitting Hamas for Islamic Jihad's Rockets *

In shift, Israel refrains from hitting Hamas for Islamic Jihad's rockets

The Israeli government treated Tuesday's rocket attack differently, to prevent escalation that could disrupt efforts to reach cease-fire with Hamas

Yaniv Kubovich and Jack Khoury May 01, 2019 12:30 PM


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah chose to post the text without comment. It did not condemn this story for portraying Jews as evil, selfish, and ungrateful. Nor did it distance itself from the Nazi commander's justification of the murder of Jews in the Holocaust based on the antisemitic libel that Jews are defined by these character traits.

Fatah's antisemitic story justifying the murder of Jews in the Holocaust does bear some similarities to a historical account documented by a _JTA_ news release on Nov. 27, 1942. However, in reality, Jews and Ukrainians all acted heroically by refusing to bury each other alive, and therefore were all murdered by the Nazis.

The following is the historical account of Jewish and Ukrainian heroism released by _JTA _in 1942:

(full article online)

Why were Jews murdered in the Holocaust? Here's Fatah's answer


----------



## Sixties Fan

Many Palestinian Authority residents expressed their distrust of the Arab leadership and even said that they preferred Israeli rule in interviews with _Kan News._

In light of the refusal of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas to accept the budgets that the State of Israel transfers to him every month due to the reduction of the salaries of the terrorists, there is a fear that the PA will collapse.

Despite the fears of the international community, the Arab street is not as worried about the situation and there are those who even call on the State of Israel to come and rule over Judea and Samaria.

One of the interviewees said: "Let Israel come here. The Palestinian Authority (PA) is not interested in us. The PA does what it wants and not what the citizens want. We want things to be comfortable for citizens and not for the PA to have money hidden in its pockets and chairs. When asked whether he was alone in that opinion if it was shared by many residents of the PA, he replied,"A lot. I tell you a lot [of people think like this]."

Another Arab expressed his anger at the PA government and stated that Abbas is the only person pleased with the existence of the Palestinian Authority. "The members of the security forces also receive only a quarter of a regular salary. Only the top official at the top is satisfied. The rest are not."

(full article online)

Do PA Arabs want Israeli sovereignty?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Human Rights NGO Documents Hamas’ Abuses in Gaza Strip


----------



## Hollie

The wannabe caliph of Mahmoud'istan (the same caliph with a presidential jet), is apparently looking for some Islamo street-cred with his whining about the Israeli decision to withhold islamic terrorist blood money.


----------



## Hollie

Not surprisingly, the audience this loathsome phony appears before are the loathsome Islamic terrorists she connives with. 




Linda Sarsour to keynote fundraisers for radical terror-tied group

Women's March leader Linda Sarsour is set to keynote several fundraisers across the country for Islamic Relief USA, an Islamic advocacy organization that is banned in many countries and has increasing ties to international terrorist organizations.

Over the past few years, the controversial progressive activist has faced increasing scrutiny over her Islamist ideology and ties to radical extremists, in addition to her virulentanti-Semitism. Nonetheless, she remains a board member of The Women's March, which claims to advocate for the rights of all women.


----------



## Hollie

It may be that the Egyptians are growing tired of their role as negotiators. On more than a few occasions, they have been embarrassed by one or more of the Islamic terrorist franchises launching rockets at Israel shortly after an Egyptian announcement of a cease fire. 

Both Hamas and Islamist gee-had are being called to the principals office, summoned like misbehaving school boys. 

Senior Hamas, Islamic Jihad members summoned to Cairo after attacks

Egyptian intelligence officials will meet with members of the delegation in an effort to calm the situation after tensions escalate between Israel and the Gaza Strip.

Egypt has summoned senior Hamas and Islamic Jihad members to Cairo for talks following a flare-up in tensions between the IDF and Hamas in the Gaza strip, according to a report from Ynet News on Thursday. 

The delegation from both groups crossed into Egypt via the Rafah border crossing.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas will need to petition their Shia masters in Iran for more gee-had welfare money. Their was some as’plodin going on in and around Shia’istan in response to Islamic terrorist attacks. 


*IDF hits Hamas targets in Gaza in response to wave of incendiary balloons*

https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/05...a-in-response-to-wave-of-incendiary-balloons/

In retaliation, two rockets are launched from the Hamas-run coastal enclave into Israeli territory. IDF says it holds Hamas responsible for any hostile acts emanating from Gaza. Iron Dome batteries moved south ahead of Independence Day next Wednesday.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie,  et al,

I have to agree here with our friend "Hollie" on the importance and relevant relationship between these two observations.



Hollie said:


> It may be that the Egyptians are growing tired of their role as negotiators.





Hollie said:


> Hamas will need to petition their Shia masters in Iran for more gee-had welfare money. There was some as’plodin going on in and around Shia’istan in response to Islamic terrorist attacks. →  IDF says it holds Hamas responsible for any hostile acts emanating from Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no question that the Arab League and, in particular, the Egyptian Government are getting the full taste of the real behaviors that characterize the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP).  No matter what the NGOs may say, no matter what the UNHRC might report in the open, the Arab League leadership tier completely understands the true causes that trigger retaliatory strike out of Israel.  And, they are getting a true taste of the honesty, integrity and moral values that is the Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip. 

No conditional peace can be achieved when the Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip are as untrustworthy as they are.

AND, the Arab League world _(in particular, the Egyptian Government)_ is getting a very real understanding as to the accuracy, trustworthiness, and reliability of the reports generated by the UNHCR and their NGO counterparts.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Holocaust abuse: PA misrepresents photos of Holocaust victims as Arabs killed by Jews - again! - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian Mullocrats must be laughing all the way to Friday prayers. 

As events are playing out, they have their most hated enemies, the Sunni and the Jews, fighting a low level war. With both Hamas and Islamic gee-had bending and scraping at the altar of Shia Iranian money, the Mullocrats are playing both sides against each other. 


Islamic Jihad tries to dictate events in Gaza

Islamic Jihad tries to dictate events in Gaza

Opinion: The long-term cease-fire arrangement between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, appeared near but now, several events, orchestrated by Iran, including Sunday's rocket launch towards Israel, casts new doubts


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

Yes, It is quite interesting, how they substitute evidence and rebrand it as their own.



Sixties Fan said:


> PA Holocaust abuse: PA misrepresents photos of Holocaust victims as Arabs killed by Jews - again! - PMW Bulletins


*(COMMENT)*

They have the technique down.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Not surprisingly, the audience this loathsome phony appears before are the loathsome Islamic terrorists she connives with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour to keynote fundraisers for radical terror-tied group
> 
> Women's March leader Linda Sarsour is set to keynote several fundraisers across the country for Islamic Relief USA, an Islamic advocacy organization that is banned in many countries and has increasing ties to international terrorist organizations.
> 
> Over the past few years, the controversial progressive activist has faced increasing scrutiny over her Islamist ideology and ties to radical extremists, in addition to her virulentanti-Semitism. Nonetheless, she remains a board member of The Women's March, which claims to advocate for the rights of all women.


Ahhh, Israel's old terrorist propaganda canard again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again


No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.
Click to expand...


Why not?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprisingly, the audience this loathsome phony appears before are the loathsome Islamic terrorists she connives with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour to keynote fundraisers for radical terror-tied group
> 
> Women's March leader Linda Sarsour is set to keynote several fundraisers across the country for Islamic Relief USA, an Islamic advocacy organization that is banned in many countries and has increasing ties to international terrorist organizations.
> 
> Over the past few years, the controversial progressive activist has faced increasing scrutiny over her Islamist ideology and ties to radical extremists, in addition to her virulentanti-Semitism. Nonetheless, she remains a board member of The Women's March, which claims to advocate for the rights of all women.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's old terrorist propaganda canard again.
Click to expand...



Ahhh, your typical spam due to an inability to respond with a coherent comment.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.
Click to expand...


Actually, Arabs-Moslems have a 1400 year history of being unable to make peace even among themselves. 

Moslem’dom is a history of war and violence.


----------



## Hollie

This is serious stuff, kuffar. 

The Head Terrorist in Charge of the Islamist Emirate of Sinwar’istan is leading a delegation of UNRWA welfare thieves to Egypt. Presumably, the Egyptian Sunni version of Islamism is going to read the Koranic riot act to the Shia beggars in Hamas and Islamist gee-had who are groveling before their Shia masters. 
*

Senior Hamas official heads to Egypt for talks on Israel

Senior Hamas official heads to Egypt for talks on Israel
*
A delegation from the Hamas terrorist organization led by its Gaza chief Yahya Sinwar left the coastal enclave for Cairo on Thursday for talks with Egyptian officials on a truce with Israel, Hamas officials said.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  ForeverYoung436, P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

In the event of "peace" → the need for anti-Israeli and other hostiles organizations _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers)_ inciting a further continuation of the Asymmetric, low intensity _(Arab-Israeli)_ Conflict would become redundant and no longer needed.  Organizations like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Islamic Resistance Movement or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine would no longer have a cause.



P F Tinmore said:


> No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.





Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again





ForeverYoung436 said:


> Why not?


*(COMMENT)*

It is also important to be aware of the fact that the personalities on the domestic leadership tiers will begin to be held accountable for both acts of corruption and criminal activity.  These personalities will flare up in an attempt to hold their grasp on positions of power and wealth.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.
Click to expand...



Define "Israel's terms".


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  ForeverYoung436, P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> In the event of "peace" → the need for anti-Israeli and other hostiles organizations _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers)_ inciting a further continuation of the Asymmetric, low intensity _(Arab-Israeli)_ Conflict would become redundant and no longer needed.  Organizations like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Islamic Resistance Movement or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine would no longer have a cause.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is also important to be aware of the fact that the personalities on the domestic leadership tiers will begin to be held accountable for both acts of corruption and criminal activity.  These personalities will flare up in an attempt to hold their grasp on positions of power and wealth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> In the event of "peace" → the need for anti-Israeli and other hostiles organizations _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers)_ inciting a further continuation of the Asymmetric, low intensity _(Arab-Israeli)_ Conflict would become redundant and no longer needed. Organizations like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Islamic Resistance Movement or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine would no longer have a cause.


Indeed, those are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they lose their reason for being.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  ForeverYoung436, P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> In the event of "peace" → the need for anti-Israeli and other hostiles organizations _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers)_ inciting a further continuation of the Asymmetric, low intensity _(Arab-Israeli)_ Conflict would become redundant and no longer needed.  Organizations like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Islamic Resistance Movement or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine would no longer have a cause.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Palestinian can make "peace" on Israel's terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Admits He Can’t and Won’t Make Peace — Again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is also important to be aware of the fact that the personalities on the domestic leadership tiers will begin to be held accountable for both acts of corruption and criminal activity.  These personalities will flare up in an attempt to hold their grasp on positions of power and wealth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the event of "peace" → the need for anti-Israeli and other hostiles organizations _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers)_ inciting a further continuation of the Asymmetric, low intensity _(Arab-Israeli)_ Conflict would become redundant and no longer needed. Organizations like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Islamic Resistance Movement or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine would no longer have a cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, those are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they lose their reason for being.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you aren’t paying attention at your koranology lessons and you are ignorant regarding your Islamist history. 

There has been conflict across the Islamist Middle East, Indonesia, etc., where Peaceful Inner Strugglers are engaged in tribal and religious wars. 

There were no Jews to speak of as a cause for the 8 year long Iran vs, Iraq slugfest. No Jews to speak of in Indonesia during the decades long guerilla war fought by the Islamists in the south. There were no Jews to speak of as ISIS slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Moslems across Iraq and Syria.

indeed, you fine folks don't need Jews as an excuse for your barbarity.


----------



## Hollie

It really appears that with Shia Iranian money flowing the the islamic gee-had tribe, Hamas is being sidelined. 



*Islamic Jihad Warns It Will 'Hit Israel's Biggest Cities' After Airstrikes Hit Gaza*

Islamic Jihad warns it will 'hit Israel's biggest cities' after airstrikes hit Gaza

Hamas also condemned airstrikes that followed the launch of incendiary balloons from the Strip earlier

Jack Khoury
02.05.2019 | 15:31
Hamas issued a statement on Thursday condemning the airstrikes conducted by the Israeli army against targets belonging to Hamas in the Gaza Strip following the launch of incendiary balloons from the enclave the day before.

"[The Israeli] Air Force strikes against our facilities constitute a continuation of the aggression against the Palestinian people and an attempt to divert [public] attention from the failure to implement the understandings [reached between Hamas and Israel], " Hamas said in a statement.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Arab Palestinians.....the ones who have perfected saying ....NO ]

Erekat: 'Deal of the century won't be implemented'


----------



## Hollie

The caliph of Sinwar'istan was doing his best impression of a pompous, islamic terrorist mouthpiece. 

It seems Yahya Sinwar hasn't yet learned that acts of islamic terrorism will draw consequences. 

*Hamas threatens retaliation after two militants killed in Israeli airstrike*

i24NEWS

Israel's army said it struck a Hamas position in response to gunfire from Gaza that injured two soldiers

Hamas, the Gaza Strip's Islamist government, on Friday threatened revenge after two members of its military wing were killed in an Israeli airstrike.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas pushes Palestinians to the brink of poverty


----------



## Hollie

By “retaliate”, I suppose that means they will threaten to make additional threats. 



*PA factions threaten to respond to Israeli 'aggression'*

PA factions threaten to respond to Israeli 'aggression'


Gaza factions threaten to retaliate after two Hamas terrorists killed in IDF air strike.


----------



## Hollie

There was a significant escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks which Israel responded to. It seems that the Egyptian summoning of Hamas and Islamic gee-had terrorists for discussions to control terrorist attacks has been ineffective. 



*IRON DOME INTERCEPTS ROCKETS FIRED FROM GAZA BY HAMAS, IDF TANKS FIRE BACK*

Iron Dome intercepts rockets fired from Gaza by Hamas, IDF tanks fire bac






Smoke trails are seen as a rocket is launched from the northern Gaza Strip towards Israel (photo credit: REUTERS)

The IDF reportedly attacked several Hamas posts in Gaza in retaliation to earlier rockets launched.

About 90 rockets were fired from the Gaza strip into Israeli territory as Iron Dome batteries intercepted dozens of rockets fired at Ashkelon and the Gaza border communities on Saturday, according to the IDF Spokesperson's Unit.


----------



## Hollie

In response to Islamic terrorist attacks that involved a barrage of dozens of rockets from Gaza, the IDF performed some landscaping adjustments within the mini-caliphate of Sinwar’istan. 

The Iranian Mullocrats will write a check for the damages and laugh all the way to mosque as their despised Sunni rivals (the Sunni view the Shia as a heretical sect), are as’plodid. 



*MASSIVE IDF STRIKES HIT GAZA, ATTACK TUNNEL DISCOVERED AND DESTROYED*

Massive IDF strikes hit Gaza, attack tunnel discovered and destroyed

By JERUSALEM POST STAFF






A ball of fire is seen during Israeli air strikes in Gaza May 4, 2019 (photo credit: REUTERS/MOHAMMED SALEM)

Rocket sirens were heard once again at the Gaza border communities of Kerem Shalom and Eshkol region.

IDF tanks and helicopters began attacking terrorist targets belonging to Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip, managing to destroy an Islamic Jihad attack tunnel entering Israel from the southern part of the strip, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit reported on Saturday


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, suffering islamic terrorists. 

I suppose in the addled mind of Islamic terrorist Death Cultists, you ease your suffering by launching gee-had attacks at a military that is vastly superior to your own in each and every way. 

Israeli defense sources warned ahead of flare-up: If we don't reach understandings, Hamas will struggle to prevent escalation


A Hamas political source who spoke to Haaretz linked Saturday's massive rocket barrage to the Eurovision Song Contest, which is slated to be held in Tel Aviv in less than two weeks: "The Eurovision can't happen in Tel Aviv when no relief is felt in Gaza," he explained. "It can't be that they will sing and enjoy while we suffer," the source added.


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian Mullocrats are not going to be happy when Hamas and Islamic gee-had hand in the bill for this. 



*IDF hits 120 terror targets*
IDF attacks Hamas, Islamic Jihad, terror targets in retaliation for rocket attacks on Israel.

IDF hits 120 terror targets

Arutz Sheva Staff,  04/05/19 20:42 | updated: 21:07IDF planes on Saturday night attacked dozens of Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror targets in Gaza, an IDF spokesperson said.

Targets included an underground Hamas site for manufacturing rocket weapons, unique in its production abilities, which was a mainstay of the organization's ability to manufacture rockets.

Another target was the command center of Hamas' Bureij troops, which included sites for manufacturing weapons. Other targets included a military compound in Tel al-Hawa, which serves the terror organization's naval arm as a training center, and several military compounds in Jabalia, Shuja'iyya, and another compound in Tel al-Hawa.


----------



## Hollie

Never addressed by the Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailing groupies is the obvious restraint demonstrated by Israel in response to Islamic terrorist gee-had attacks. 

The Islamic terrorists know that in response to attacks aimed at Israel, The IDF will target specific features of military value. 

I can just imagine the shrill screeching if the IDF chose to target all Islamic terrorist infrastructure, even when deployed in civilian areas. 
*

250 rockets fired from Gaza at Israel; 1-year-old child among those killed in retaliatory airstrikes

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/04/middleeast/israel-gaza-rockets-intl/index.html*


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 02-May-19: Multiple events coming up so the Gazans crank up their rockets


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Will the real Peace Partners come forward !!!!  ]

Fatah threatens harm to new political party that wants peace with Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

*Israel says fresh Gaza strike kills Hamas’s financial liaison to Iran*

Israel says fresh Gaza strike kills Hamas’s financial liaison to Iran



I’ll translate the above. 

The Sunni Islamic terrorist bagman who collects the Shia Iranian welfare money got whacked.


----------



## Hollie

Fixing that cable TV service is gonna’ be expensive. Send the bill to Tehran. 


*IDF DESTROYS HOUSES OF ISLAMIC JIHAD COMMANDERS*







IDF destroys houses of Islamic Jihad commanders


----------



## Hollie

Oopsies!



JERUSALEM – The Latest on Israeli-Palestinian violence in Gaza (all times local):

9:50 a.m.

The Israeli military says an errant Palestinian rocket that misfired — not an Israeli airstrike — caused the death of a pregnant Palestinian mother and her 14-month-old girl in the Gaza Strip.

The Latest: Israel says Gaza civilians slain by Hamas rocket


The Shia Iranians have a joke: “a pregnant Sunni woman and daughter walk into a Sunni war zone we Shia paid for......”


----------



## Hollie

I’m thinking that the Hamas, Fatah, love-fest forgot to add that Israeli building facade renovations in the mini-caliphate of Sinwar’istan were the result of Islamic terrorist gee-had attacks.  



*Hamas, Fatah slam Israel offensive on Gaza*

May 4, 2019 at 4:13 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine

Hamas, Fatah slam Israel offensive on Gaza

The Palestinian movements of Hamas and Fatah on Saturday slammed recent Israeli offensives on the blockaded Gaza strip since Friday which have martyred five Palestinians and left dozens wounded, reports _Anadolu Agency_.


“Martyred”.


----------



## Hollie

Considering the scope of attacks already waged by the Iranian proxies in Gaza’istan, I’m unclear as to why the IDF has not unleashed more mayhem than the Islamic terrorists could have imagined, 

What emboldens the Islamic terrorists is a perception that waging offensive gee-had will be met with only a middling response by Israel. 


*HAMAS, ISLAMIC JIHAD: ‘WE’RE CLOSE TO OPEN WAR WITH ISRAEL’*
3 minute read.
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH





Palestinian Islamic Jihad militants participate in a military show in Gaza City (photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS)

The warning came as leaders of the two Palestinian groups continued their discussions in Cairo with senior Egyptian intelligence officials on ways of ending the current round of fighting with Israel.

Defiant Hamas and Islamic Jihad officials said on Sunday that they don’t rule out the possibility that the current round of fighting in the Gaza Strip could lead to an all-out war with Israel. 

Hamas, Islamic Jihad: ‘We’re close to open war with Israel’


----------



## Hollie

PRECISION STRIKE: Earlier today, we targeted Hamed Ahmed Khudari in Gaza. He was responsible for transferring Iranian money to Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The funds were used to build the hundreds of rockets recently fired at Israel. Iran will need to find a new money man in Gaza.

0:14
80.4K views


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This.....is a Palestinian....]

Tlaib blasts coverage of Gaza attacks, calls to 'Free Palestine'


----------



## Hollie

It’s difficult to know if the following article is accurate, (Israel planning a ground invasion), but it could be the reason for reports that the Iranian proxy army: Hamas, is approaching Egypt to broker a Hudna.   



TENSIONS FLARE 

*Israeli army ‘planning ground invasion into Gaza’ after more than 450 rockets fired in just 24 hours*

Israel 'planning Gaza ground invasion' after 450 rockets fired in 24 hours

Israel has been hitting targets in retaliation for the rocket attacks and is preparing ground forces


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> It’s difficult to know if the following article is accurate, (Israel planning a ground invasion), but it could be the reason for reports that the Iranian proxy army: Hamas, is approaching Egypt to broker a Hudna.
> 
> 
> 
> TENSIONS FLARE
> 
> *Israeli army ‘planning ground invasion into Gaza’ after more than 450 rockets fired in just 24 hours*
> 
> Israel 'planning Gaza ground invasion' after 450 rockets fired in 24 hours
> 
> Israel has been hitting targets in retaliation for the rocket attacks and is preparing ground forces


That was 150 rockets ago.  I wonder what the plan is now as the rockets keep flying into Israel.


----------



## Hollie

*Over 300 deadly airstrikes: Gaza, Israel declare ceasefire*

MAY 6, 2019 11:54 A.M. (UPDATED: MAY 6, 2019 12:56 P.M.) 
Facebook11Twitterkilled in the Israeli airstrikes. 

Over 300 deadly airstrikes: Gaza, Israel declare ceasefire

In addition, a husband and wife were found to have succumbed to their wounds under the rubble, as a result of the airstrikes.

The ministry also confirmed that at least 154 Palestinians were injured.





Apparently 25 dead Sunni Arab-Moslems. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are laughing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Starting on May 4th through the early hours of May 6th, the Palestinian terrorists from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired close to 700 rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israel, targeting civilian population centers. To defend its population, the Israeli Air Force responded by targeting the terrorist groups’ infrastructure and a number of their members. 

Instead of condemning the Palestinian terrorists who committed war crimes by firing hundreds of rockets, mortars, and missiles targeting Israel’s civilian population, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas decided to give them full support. Similar support was also given by officials in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), also headed by Abbas. At the same time, Abbas’ Fatah party referred to all of Israel as “occupied” and all Israelis as “settlers.” 

Completely ignoring the actions of the terrorists, Abbas condemned only the “Israeli aggression.” He also lied claiming that the Israeli response to the barrage of terrorist missiles had claimed the life of a pregnant Palestinian and her 14 month old baby. In fact, the mother and baby were killed by a Hamas rocket that fell short.

“President Mahmoud Abbas strongly condemned today the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip which so far claimed the lives of seven Palestinians, including a toddler and her pregnant mother.”
[WAFA, official PA news agency, May 4, 2019]

Abbas even instructed the PA’s permanent representative to the UN “to consider calling for a meeting of the UN Security Council to bring a halt to the Israeli aggression.” [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]

Similarly ignoring reality, PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi failed to even acknowledge any of the terrorist missile attacks, and paradoxically referred to Israel’s defensive measures as “war crimes.” She likewise lied accusing Israel of “indiscriminately bombarding heavily populated civilian areas.” In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets. She too repeated the false claim that Israel was responsible for the death of the mother and baby. 

“We grieve for 13 Palestinians lost since this brutal assault started on Friday, including Falasteen, a pregnant mother, her unborn child, and Saba her 14 month-old baby.” 
[WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]

(full article online)

Abbas and PLO side with Hamas in desperate attempt to be relevant - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Starting on May 4th through the early hours of May 6th, the Palestinian terrorists from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired close to 700 rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israel, targeting civilian population centers. To defend its population, the Israeli Air Force responded by targeting the terrorist groups’ infrastructure and a number of their members.
> 
> Instead of condemning the Palestinian terrorists who committed war crimes by firing hundreds of rockets, mortars, and missiles targeting Israel’s civilian population, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas decided to give them full support. Similar support was also given by officials in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), also headed by Abbas. At the same time, Abbas’ Fatah party referred to all of Israel as “occupied” and all Israelis as “settlers.”
> 
> Completely ignoring the actions of the terrorists, Abbas condemned only the “Israeli aggression.” He also lied claiming that the Israeli response to the barrage of terrorist missiles had claimed the life of a pregnant Palestinian and her 14 month old baby. In fact, the mother and baby were killed by a Hamas rocket that fell short.
> 
> “President Mahmoud Abbas strongly condemned today the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip which so far claimed the lives of seven Palestinians, including a toddler and her pregnant mother.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 4, 2019]
> 
> Abbas even instructed the PA’s permanent representative to the UN “to consider calling for a meeting of the UN Security Council to bring a halt to the Israeli aggression.” [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> Similarly ignoring reality, PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi failed to even acknowledge any of the terrorist missile attacks, and paradoxically referred to Israel’s defensive measures as “war crimes.” She likewise lied accusing Israel of “indiscriminately bombarding heavily populated civilian areas.” In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets. She too repeated the false claim that Israel was responsible for the death of the mother and baby.
> 
> “We grieve for 13 Palestinians lost since this brutal assault started on Friday, including Falasteen, a pregnant mother, her unborn child, and Saba her 14 month-old baby.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas and PLO side with Hamas in desperate attempt to be relevant - PMW Bulletins





Sixties Fan said:


> In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets.


How does Israel know the location of these targets when it claims to no longer have people in the territory?

Also, you cannot claim self defense against an occupied people.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting on May 4th through the early hours of May 6th, the Palestinian terrorists from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired close to 700 rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israel, targeting civilian population centers. To defend its population, the Israeli Air Force responded by targeting the terrorist groups’ infrastructure and a number of their members.
> 
> Instead of condemning the Palestinian terrorists who committed war crimes by firing hundreds of rockets, mortars, and missiles targeting Israel’s civilian population, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas decided to give them full support. Similar support was also given by officials in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), also headed by Abbas. At the same time, Abbas’ Fatah party referred to all of Israel as “occupied” and all Israelis as “settlers.”
> 
> Completely ignoring the actions of the terrorists, Abbas condemned only the “Israeli aggression.” He also lied claiming that the Israeli response to the barrage of terrorist missiles had claimed the life of a pregnant Palestinian and her 14 month old baby. In fact, the mother and baby were killed by a Hamas rocket that fell short.
> 
> “President Mahmoud Abbas strongly condemned today the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip which so far claimed the lives of seven Palestinians, including a toddler and her pregnant mother.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 4, 2019]
> 
> Abbas even instructed the PA’s permanent representative to the UN “to consider calling for a meeting of the UN Security Council to bring a halt to the Israeli aggression.” [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> Similarly ignoring reality, PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi failed to even acknowledge any of the terrorist missile attacks, and paradoxically referred to Israel’s defensive measures as “war crimes.” She likewise lied accusing Israel of “indiscriminately bombarding heavily populated civilian areas.” In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets. She too repeated the false claim that Israel was responsible for the death of the mother and baby.
> 
> “We grieve for 13 Palestinians lost since this brutal assault started on Friday, including Falasteen, a pregnant mother, her unborn child, and Saba her 14 month-old baby.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas and PLO side with Hamas in desperate attempt to be relevant - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does Israel know the location of these targets when it claims to no longer have people in the territory?
> 
> Also, you cannot claim self defense against an occupied people.
Click to expand...


You don't claim it, just act on it.
Not that it's a measure but much more Western and Arab countries immediately sided against Hamas,
and supported this right to self defense You claim doesn't exist against the Jihadi psychos.


How does Israel know?
To start with - there're many Gazans who are against Hamas.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting on May 4th through the early hours of May 6th, the Palestinian terrorists from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired close to 700 rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israel, targeting civilian population centers. To defend its population, the Israeli Air Force responded by targeting the terrorist groups’ infrastructure and a number of their members.
> 
> Instead of condemning the Palestinian terrorists who committed war crimes by firing hundreds of rockets, mortars, and missiles targeting Israel’s civilian population, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas decided to give them full support. Similar support was also given by officials in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), also headed by Abbas. At the same time, Abbas’ Fatah party referred to all of Israel as “occupied” and all Israelis as “settlers.”
> 
> Completely ignoring the actions of the terrorists, Abbas condemned only the “Israeli aggression.” He also lied claiming that the Israeli response to the barrage of terrorist missiles had claimed the life of a pregnant Palestinian and her 14 month old baby. In fact, the mother and baby were killed by a Hamas rocket that fell short.
> 
> “President Mahmoud Abbas strongly condemned today the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip which so far claimed the lives of seven Palestinians, including a toddler and her pregnant mother.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 4, 2019]
> 
> Abbas even instructed the PA’s permanent representative to the UN “to consider calling for a meeting of the UN Security Council to bring a halt to the Israeli aggression.” [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> Similarly ignoring reality, PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi failed to even acknowledge any of the terrorist missile attacks, and paradoxically referred to Israel’s defensive measures as “war crimes.” She likewise lied accusing Israel of “indiscriminately bombarding heavily populated civilian areas.” In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets. She too repeated the false claim that Israel was responsible for the death of the mother and baby.
> 
> “We grieve for 13 Palestinians lost since this brutal assault started on Friday, including Falasteen, a pregnant mother, her unborn child, and Saba her 14 month-old baby.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas and PLO side with Hamas in desperate attempt to be relevant - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does Israel know the location of these targets when it claims to no longer have people in the territory?
> 
> Also, you cannot claim self defense against an occupied people.
Click to expand...


1)  Spies.

2)  Gaza is not occupied by Israeli forces.

3)  If you read the article, Abbas can hardly be called an Israeli stooge, which you continue to call him.  I wish that he was, though.


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Oslo has failed,' says leader of new Palestinian party, who argues for accepting Israeli rule


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting on May 4th through the early hours of May 6th, the Palestinian terrorists from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired close to 700 rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israel, targeting civilian population centers. To defend its population, the Israeli Air Force responded by targeting the terrorist groups’ infrastructure and a number of their members.
> 
> Instead of condemning the Palestinian terrorists who committed war crimes by firing hundreds of rockets, mortars, and missiles targeting Israel’s civilian population, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas decided to give them full support. Similar support was also given by officials in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), also headed by Abbas. At the same time, Abbas’ Fatah party referred to all of Israel as “occupied” and all Israelis as “settlers.”
> 
> Completely ignoring the actions of the terrorists, Abbas condemned only the “Israeli aggression.” He also lied claiming that the Israeli response to the barrage of terrorist missiles had claimed the life of a pregnant Palestinian and her 14 month old baby. In fact, the mother and baby were killed by a Hamas rocket that fell short.
> 
> “President Mahmoud Abbas strongly condemned today the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip which so far claimed the lives of seven Palestinians, including a toddler and her pregnant mother.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 4, 2019]
> 
> Abbas even instructed the PA’s permanent representative to the UN “to consider calling for a meeting of the UN Security Council to bring a halt to the Israeli aggression.” [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> Similarly ignoring reality, PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi failed to even acknowledge any of the terrorist missile attacks, and paradoxically referred to Israel’s defensive measures as “war crimes.” She likewise lied accusing Israel of “indiscriminately bombarding heavily populated civilian areas.” In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets. She too repeated the false claim that Israel was responsible for the death of the mother and baby.
> 
> “We grieve for 13 Palestinians lost since this brutal assault started on Friday, including Falasteen, a pregnant mother, her unborn child, and Saba her 14 month-old baby.”
> [WAFA, official PA news agency, May 5, 2019]
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Abbas and PLO side with Hamas in desperate attempt to be relevant - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Israel’s defensive strikes deliberately only targeted known terrorist targets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does Israel know the location of these targets when it claims to no longer have people in the territory?
> 
> Also, you cannot claim self defense against an occupied people.
Click to expand...


Indeed, _The_ _Zionists_™️ employ their magical _Ziopowers_ to know the locations of Islamic terrorists. 

Also, you can’t claim ignorance when you get whacked for committing acts of war. You, of course, do that every time you get whacked for committing acts of war. 

Strange, that. Do you enjoy being humiliated as the errand boys of the Iranian Mullocrats or is it something else?


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> 'Oslo has failed,' says leader of new Palestinian party, who argues for accepting Israeli rule



If I was an Israeli, I wouldn’t want the social, political and financial burden of a bunch of non-productive, welfare addled miscreants. 

Neither does the Arab world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas boasts it ‘overcame’ Iron Dome with concentrated rocket salvos. It didn’t


----------



## Sixties Fan

Video of Hamas targeting civilian car with Kornet anti-tank missile ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult is parading around its newest advertisement for the mentally defective. 

While we in the West honor sports figures, political leaders, business leaders, inventors and entrepreneurs, the Islamic Death Cult makes heroes out of cowardly suicide bombers, mass murderers, and the dead gee-had mentally defective types that are groomed by the Death Cult. 
*


The making of a Palestinian superstar*
*
The making of a Palestinian terror superstar - PMW Bulletins

Murderer of 2 has street, square, mosque, and football tournament named after him and monument erected in his honor*

*Fatah and the PA heaped praise upon him: *

*"A source of inspiration for our children"*
*"We are following in your footsteps"*
*"A national model"*
*"Glorify his heroism and courage"*
*"A hero"*
*"Honor and pride"*
*"Continue [his] path"*
*"Perpetuate the memory"*
*"Heroic Martyr"*
*"The Jihad fighter"*
*"The perfect person"*

*Fatah Student Movement embraced murderer in election campaign at Birzeit University*
פ
*Fatah pledged to rebuild murderer's home*




By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Before March 17, 2019, Omar Abu Laila was just an ordinary unknown 19-year-old Palestinian teenager. 

Now he is a Palestinian superstar and role model.

Abu Laila was turned into a hero and role model for Palestinians in just two weeks by the PA and Fatah for choosing the path of terror, murdering Israeli soldier Gal Keidan and Rabbi Achiad Ettinger, a father of 12 on March 17, 2019. Abu Laila was subsequently killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers, and the PA and Fatah declared him a "Martyr."

So far, the murderer has had a street, a square, a mosque and a football tournament named after him, and a monument erected in his honor by the PA and Fatah - both institutions headed by Mahmoud Abbas. In addition, Fatah's student movement Shabiba has embraced murderer Abu Laila as their new hero and specifically promoted him to Palestinian university students as a role model to emulate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The fake "civilians" of Gaza, 2019 edition ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Are they upset that they are not part of the Festival?  Of course not. ]

Hamas TV threatens the Eurovision Song Contest in Israel  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

*After Gaza-Israel Flare-up, I Would Ask Hamas' Military Chief This One Question *

After Gaza-Israel flare-up, I would ask Hamas' military chief this one question


Gaza's suffering will not and cannot be alleviated by any long-range rocket or armed drone. Why not try something different and recognize Israel?


May 07, 2019 3:53 PM
 







I would ask a different question: why is the angry Islamic terrorist welfare fraud thief still wasting oxygen after a declaration of war that had 700 rockets striking Israel?


----------



## Hollie

To live and die in the Islamic Death Cult. 

The Iranian Mullocrats are having a good laugh at their Sunni buffoons. 
*



ISLAMIC JIHAD ADMITS BABY, PREGNANT WOMAN KILLED BY THEIR OWN ROCKETS*

https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...nant-woman-killed-by-their-own-rockets-589001


----------



## Hollie

When you read various statements from the Islamic Death Cult, you realize pretty quickly that these psychopaths are in a very dark place.



PA admits: All Palestinian terrorists are sent by the PA and "receive orders from us"
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 

PA admits: All Palestinian terrorists are sent by the PA and "receive orders from us" - PMW Bulletins

*PA admits: All Palestinian terrorists are sent by the PA 
and "receive orders from us"*

*Abbas' Spokesman about every terrorist in prison: "Someone who acts on our behalf and receives orders from us."*

*Mahmoud Abbas about terrorists: They "were killed, imprisoned, or wounded because of a national interest and for the sake of a national interest, and not for personal reasons."*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Top PA leaders have explained that the PA is "obligated" to pay salaries to 6,000 Palestinian terrorists in prison and the families of suicide bombers and other so-called "Martyrs," because they were "soldiers" of the PA, who were "sent" by the PA and who acted out of "national interest and not for personal reasons." Most significantly, they "received orders" from the PA. As explained by Abbas' spokesman: "*It is impossible to send a soldier to war and then not take care of his family*."


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists represented by Hamas are in a bit of a panic. They are already scurrying around looking for ways to reject a peace plan that no one has yet seen, and no details announced. 

I suspect their biggest fear is a perceived threat to their dedicated UNRWA  welfare fraud entitlement.  

The article mentions that Hamas will attempt to circumvent the PLO, described as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”  Although, It’s difficult to take that seriously when the PLO is little more than a label for a non-functioning, irrelevant post office box for receipt of welfare fraud money. I find it difficult to believe that the rulers of the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan accept the PLO as anything but competition for the welfare fraud checks that enable the competing Islamic terrorist franchises. 

*Hamas to form body to foil 'deal of the century’* 








 REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa

Hamas to form body to foil 'deal of the century'

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Hamas intends to form a supreme body composed of Palestinian, Arab and Islamic forces to confront the US deal of the century, a step that the Fatah movement deems as “a major mistake” given that the PLO is the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

During a seminar April 23 in Gaza City — titled “Mechanisms to deal with the deal of the century” — and attended by Al-Monitor, Salah al-Bardawil, member of Hamas’ political bureau, revealed that his movement is seeking to form a supreme body composed of Palestinian, Arab and Islamic forces to counter the US deal of the century.

Bardawil is yet to reveal which forces are to take part.

In a speech he delivered during a meeting with leaders of Palestinian factions in Gaza City April 27 and attended by Al-Monitor, Ismail Haniyeh, head of Hamas' political bureau, called for the development of a national vision and strategy and a national code of conduct to foil the deal of the century.


----------



## Hollie

At some point before Eurovision, (or during the event), the Israelis should expect Hamas will end the Hudna and resume their war.

Israel may have missed a chance to let loose with a devastating military response to the war brought to them by the Iranian occupation army.



Hamas TV threatens the Eurovision Song Contest in Israel
by Maurice Hirsch and Itamar Marcus
May 7, 2019

Hamas TV threatens the Eurovision Song Contest in Israel  - PMW Bulletins






Following two days in which Hamas and Islamic Jihad fired around 700 rockets at Israel, Hamas’ official TV channel warned that if Israel does not honor the understandings to Hamas’ satisfaction, the terrorist organization can disrupt the Eurovision contest as it is being held in Israel.

After praising the performance of the joint war room of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Mu’min Meqdad, the “Hebrew Affairs Editor and Expert” for Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV, warned that Hamas can disrupt the Eurovision Song Contest in Israel:


----------



## Hollie

I tend to think the damages in the photo below will cost more than $1,000 to repair.

Such are the wages of the islamist gee-had.





HAMAS OFFERS $1000 TO GAZA FAMILIES WHOSE HOMES WERE DESTROYED BY ISRAEL
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

Hamas offers $1000 to Gaza families whose homes were destroyed by Israel
_




A Palestinian man looks on as he stands inside a building destroyed in Israeli air strikes, in Gaza City May 5, 2019. (photo credit:" SUHAIB SALEM / REUTERS)
Israel “destroyed dozens of installations, workshops, shops and media offices, in addition to agricultural fields and greenhouses,” he added.
Some 100 housing units were destroyed during Israeli military strikes in the Gaza Strip during the last round of fighting, a senior official in the Hamas-ruled coastal enclave said on Tuesday.

Naji Sarhan, deputy of the Ministry of Works, announced that each family whose house was destroyed will receive $1,000 in urgent financial aid. The aid will be provided through charitable institutions in the Gaza Strip, he said during a press conference.

Sarhan said that an additional 30 housing units were partially damaged by IAF strikes on the Gaza Strip earlier this week.


_


----------



## Hollie

For whatever reason, the EU still sees a reason to finance islamic terrorism. Nothing in the article indicates there are any conditions attached to the welfare payments which would require accountability on the part of the islamic terrorist welfare recipients. 



EU playing key role in funding PA's terrorist prisoners
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus
May 10, 2019 "

EU playing key role in funding PA's terrorist prisoners - PMW Bulletins

*EU playing key role in funding PA's terrorist prisoners*


*The EU has announced it will help pay the PA's public employees 
whose salaries the PA cut in order to pay terrorists*

*1. February: The PA cut salaries of public employees by 50% to maintain full salaries to terrorist prisoners
2. May: The EU pays the salaries of the PA's public employees - enabling the PA to continue paying salaries to terrorists*

*The result: New PA - EU partnership:
EU pays salaries to public employees -
PA has money to pay salaries to terrorists*

*EU's actions contradict recent EU statement: 
"We do not support the system of Palestinian payments 
to 'prisoners and martyrs'"*


----------



## Hollie

*Israel responded to a Hamas cyberattack with an airstrike. That’s a big deal.*

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.w...h-an-airstrike-thats-big-deal/?outputType=amp

*Policymakers are debating how best to retaliate against cyberwarfare actions — and how not to.*



Retaliation for islamic terrorist acts of war isn't that big a deal. It shows a willingness and a resolve to defend yourself.


----------



## Hollie

I tend to agree with the assessment below. I just don’t envision the Israeli government allowing another barrage of hundreds of rockets cascading down on its cities without a major beat-down of the Islamic terrorists. 




The Next Round in Gaza Will Be Deadlier

TEL AVIV, Israel—Every two months or so for the past year Israel and Hamas have engaged in a deadly but relatively limited round of violence—with the Islamic militant group firing rockets from the Gaza Strip and Israel responding with airstrikes for a day or two until international mediators step in and stop the fighting. The latest round over the weekend was the most lethal since the 2014 war but consistent with the pattern.

Yet there are signs—economic, military, and political—that this could be the last of the short-lived escalation rounds. Absent a more durable diplomatic arrangement between Israel and Hamas, which rules Gaza, the next engagement will likely be much broader and deadlier, and not so easily contained.


----------



## Hollie

There's an inciteful article written by Caroline Glick that provides an assessment of the continuing short term wars that Israel is drawn into.

While Hamas was the primary instigator a decade ago, islamic gee-had is now a rival to Hamas and with Iranian money financing both those islamic terrorist franchises, Caroline, rightly so, lays out a pessimistic look ahead where Israel will have few options for diplomacy.

My read of the situation is that unless and until Israel responds to the continued acts of war waged by the islamic terrorist groups with a decisive victory such that there is no question who is the winner, who is the loser and who dictates terms of the Islamic terrorist surrender, the week long wars will continue.  



Caroline Glick: Israel Must Prepare for Next War with Hamas | Breitbart

There are three reasons that every round of Hamas aggression ends so inconclusively. The first is that Hamas, the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, will never accept any meaningful ceasefire with Israel. It is a jihadist group that exists to annihilate Israel. This is why it devotes all of its resources to attacking Israel rather than developing Gaza for the welfare of its residents. As a result, so long as Hamas controls Gaza, it will continue to use the area as a launchpad for attacks against Israel.

The second reason is that there is no alternative to Hamas among the Palestinians. Fatah, Hamas’s main rival and the group that controls the Palestinian Authority, is no match for it. Hamas seized control over Gaza from Fatah in 2007 with little effort. And no other alternative exists, even in theory.

Israelis recognize that the only way to overthrow Hamas is to fight a major war, and o pay a huge price in civilian and military casualties. And then end of the war would leave Israel with no choice but to continue to control Gaza through its military. There is little appetite in Israel for this option. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has stated repeatedly that he will only employ it if he convinced that there is no other option.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Arab voices that the media will NEVER show you


----------



## Sixties Fan

People are complaining on social media - because they assume that the quotes will support peace rather than war. The terrorist groups see Abbas as someone who cooperates with Israel and who, occasionally, condemns terror attacks against Jews, so they don't want their kids to be influenced by someone like that.

Another said she didn't want her kids to learn from someone who gave up on returning to his birthplace in Safed.

It should be fun to see how this plays out.

(full article online)

Shades of Chairman Mao: Abbas' sayings to be published and distributed to all Palestinian schools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Life tends to be cheap in the Islamic Death Cult. Westerners (and other normal people), often to react with astonishment at Arabs-Moslems who so willingly use their children as cannon fodder but Islamics blithely proceed on with their mental disorders without a second thought. 
*
*

*
IDF posts video for Hamas, asking why attacking Israelis outweighs helping Gazans
*
It begins with the message that children should not be targeted, then points out that Hamas and the PIJ fire rockets at Israeli schools and kindergartens while using civilians as human shields.


----------



## Hollie

The IAF was doing some remodeling of the Islamic terrorist real estate in Gaza.




*Israeli forces destroy Gaza office of Turkish Anadolu news agency

May 9, 2019 11:35 AM*
Beirut, May 9, 2019 -- The Committee to Protect Journalists today condemned the Israeli bombing of Turkish-stated owned news outlet Anadolu Agency's Gaza office on May 4.


----------



## Hollie

I think the answer to question below is an emphatic yes. Although, it’s better defined as a Hamas / Islamic gee-had vs Israel war. 

Israel has for far too long made the mistake of “proportional response” which has allowed the islamic terrorist franchises to ramp up their gee-had attacks knowing that their acts of war faced only limited retaliation. 



*Gaza escalation; a prelude to Hamas-Israel war?*

*Gaza escalation; a prelude to Hamas-Israel war?*


The most recent round of violence between Israel and the Gaza Strip on May 4 and 5 was more violent and deadlier than the ones before. For the first time in a long while, Israel’s military skipped directly to measures it usually reserves for more advanced stages of such fighting, killing Hamas targets and demolishing the organization’s command centers located in residential apartment buildings in Gaza. Hamas and the Islamic Jihad seem to have had the same idea of an advanced fighting stage.


----------



## Hollie

*The Law of War Permits Israel to Destroy Hamas*
Gaza Strip Rockets: Israel Has Right to Destroy Hamas under Law of War | National Review


By DAVID FRENCH
May 6, 2019 2:30 PM

_The double standards imposed on the IDF are yet another symptom of international anti-Semitism._

_As of this moment, a fragile truce holds in southern Israel. After Hamas volleyed 600 missiles at Israeli civilian targets on Saturday and Sunday, prompting Israel to attack hundreds of targets in Gaza, the air-raid sirens have fallen silent, for now._

_But over the weekend, when the rockets fell, we saw all the old arguments against Israel’s acts of self-defense crop up. The air raids were “disproportionate,” we were told. There were arguments over individual civilian casualties, as if it would somehow discredit Israel if its precision strikes killed more than a handful of noncombatants. Yes, there were rote condemnations of Hamas’s efforts to kill as many civilians as it could, but once again all too many voices on the left rose at once, demanding that the nation under attack — the nation defending its schools, hospitals, and homes from an indiscriminate rocket barrage — exercise restraint._




I tend to think that the next islamic terrorist act of war that brings hundreds of rockets reigning down on Israeli cities will bring a "proportional response" (hundreds of IAF strikes), to thoroughly dismantle the islamic terrorist ability to wage war.


----------



## Hollie

More beneficiaries of the Shia Iranian Martyrs Brigade. 



*Palestinian Killed at Israel-Gaza Border During Weekly Demonstration
*
A Palestinian was killed by Israeli fire at a weekly demonstration along the Gaza-Israeli border fence, according to Palestinian officials.

Gaza's health ministry said Friday that a 24-year old Palestinian was killed during the border protest and 30 others were wounded by gunfire.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said troops opened fire when some of the protesters approached the fortified fence.


----------



## Hollie

More money for the islamic terrorist welfare fraud. 

Iran needs to fatten up their Dead Sunni Islamist escrow account and but more weapons for Hamas. 



Qatar will transfer $30 million in aid for Gaza within days, Hamas officials predict

Qatar will transfer $30 million in aid to Palestinians in Gaza in the coming days, Hamas officials in the Strip assessed on Saturday.

The funds are expected to arrive in the coastal enclave on Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## Hollie

The impoverished islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan.

Oh, the suffering.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> The impoverished islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza'istan.
> 
> Oh, the suffering.


Could we take another look at their Olympic Pool and Malls again?
How about the coastal resorts?


----------



## Hollie

Footage of some Islamic terrorist beatdown.


----------



## Hollie

"Palestinian Islamic Jihad Leader Ziyad Al-Nakhaleh: A Greater Battle with the Zionist Enemy is yet to Come; We Were Only Hours from Bombing Tel Aviv"



Of course you were, tough guy. Just more of the pompous blustering from Arab-Moslem crackpots.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Life tends to be cheap in the Islamic Death Cult. Westerners (and other normal people), often to react with astonishment at Arabs-Moslems who so willingly use their children as cannon fodder but Islamics blithely proceed on with their mental disorders without a second thought.
> *
> *
> 
> *
> IDF posts video for Hamas, asking why attacking Israelis outweighs helping Gazans
> *
> It begins with the message that children should not be targeted, then points out that Hamas and the PIJ fire rockets at Israeli schools and kindergartens while using civilians as human shields.





Hollie said:


> then points out that Hamas and the PIJ fire rockets at Israeli schools and kindergartens while using civilians as human shields.


Not true. The Palestinians use the exact same standards as Israel. Israel fires in the direction of the rockets and the Palestinians fire in the direction of the airplanes and tanks.

They both attack from and to residential areas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Life tends to be cheap in the Islamic Death Cult. Westerners (and other normal people), often to react with astonishment at Arabs-Moslems who so willingly use their children as cannon fodder but Islamics blithely proceed on with their mental disorders without a second thought.
> *
> *
> 
> *
> IDF posts video for Hamas, asking why attacking Israelis outweighs helping Gazans
> *
> It begins with the message that children should not be targeted, then points out that Hamas and the PIJ fire rockets at Israeli schools and kindergartens while using civilians as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> then points out that Hamas and the PIJ fire rockets at Israeli schools and kindergartens while using civilians as human shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The Palestinians use the exact same standards as Israel. Israel fires in the direction of the rockets and the Palestinians fire in the direction of the airplanes and tanks.
> 
> They both attack from and to residential areas.
Click to expand...


Such nonsensical apologetics for Islamist miscreants.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas gives gifts to murderer of 3 and to mother of murderer of five, despite PA financial crisis - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas gives gifts to murderer of 3 and to mother of murderer of five, despite PA financial crisis - PMW Bulletins



There’s a financial crisis in the PA? Maybe Abbas needs more of that sweet Iranian gee-money going to Gaza.

What’s for lunch?


----------



## Hollie

Recently, Qatar has been a willing participant to the Islamic terrorist welfare scam - Hamas franchise. It seems that the Sunni contingent of Islamism is making only a half-hearted attempt to counter the Shia Iranian influence with Hamas and Islamic gee-had. 



*Israel Reopens Gaza Crossings; Hamas Expects Qatari Money Within Days *

Qatari, UN envoys to visit Strip for discussions on implementation of cease-fire agreement, Palestinian media report


https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...sfer-from-qatar-within-several-days-1.7222696


----------



## Sixties Fan

East Jerusalem men charged with planning Tel Aviv beach shooting for Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians criticize new booklet praising Abbas handed out in PA schools


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied. 

Vigilance in the face of Islamic terrorists saves lives. 



*East Jerusalem men charged with planning attack on behalf of Hamas*

East Jerusalem men charged with planning attack on behalf of Hamas

A pair of East Jerusalem residents are charged today with planning to carry out a attack on behalf of Palestinian terror group Hamas.

According to the indictments filed at the Jerusalem District Court, Adam Muselmani and Mahmoud Abdel Latif befriended each other in 2017 while serving time at Nafha Prison.

The two planned to carry out a shooting in Hamas’s name at a beach in Tel Aviv following their release from prison, the charge sheets say, citing the high number of attacks in Jerusalem and the heavy police presence in the capital


----------



## Hollie

The Bagman Cometh.

Here’s a photo-op I suspect is intended to show Sunni unity in the face of the Shia Iranians making Hamas and Islamic gee-had their errand boys.

As long as Yassir Jr. (on the right), is collecting his suitcase full of money, he is everyone’s best friend. 




*QATARI ENVOY ARRIVES IN GAZA STRIP, TRANSFERS $30 MILLION TO HAMAS*

https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...za-Strip-transfers-30-million-to-Hamas-589533







Hamas Chief Ismail Haniyeh meets with Qatari envoy Mohammed Al-Emadi in Gaza City January 24, 2019. Ahmed Shaat/Courtesy of Hamas Chief Media (photo credit: HANDOUT/REUTERS)


The Qatari envoy Mohammed al-Emadi arrived at the Gaza Strip through the Erez Crossing and handed over $30 million to Hamas on Monday, and families are now being asked to check whether they received the $100 grant they deserve.


----------



## Sixties Fan

From a letter to Jewish Journal by Elizabeth Campbell, Director, Washington Representative Office, UNRWA, in the context of teaching Palestinian children:

 UNRWA is a humanitarian institution. The agency’s mandate, as determined by the U.N. General Assembly, is to provide essential services — including health, educational and humanitarian assistance — to promote the well-being and human development of Palestine refugees until there is a just and lasting solution to the conflict. *If UNRWA isn’t there to teach Palestine refugee children, and instill key values of neutrality, human rights, tolerance and nondiscrimination, who will be?*


Keep in mind that the Palestinian Authority has a school system. Every child who is a citizen can go to their schools. There is no reason that UNRWA needs to have an entirely parallel school system - paid for by the world. (There is also no reason why Palestinian Arabs should be in "refugee camps" when they live in a land that is administered by their own leaders in what they consider their own land.)

UNRWA knows this, so they try to justify their massive school system - by saying that the Palestinian school system teaches hate and intolerance and antisemitism, and therefore UNRWA is necessary to counteract that for the kids who are falsely considered "refugees."

(full article online)

.@UNRWA admits that Arabs teach their kids hate ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Oxford Debate*

The Oxford Union is a platform to debate different ideas. You would expect a Palestinian Arab to stand up and criticize Israel; to demonize the Jewish state. But Mudar Zahran had other plans. At this Oxford debate, he did something different. He told the world the truth. Mudar criticized the Palestinian Arab leaders and Jordan for the way they treat their own people. He condemned the lies they spread. And it was absolutely amazing to listen to! Hopefully, more people like Zahran will be able to publicly stand up and say what he said. He made peace feel possible. He made it feel closer than ever before.

(full article and video online)

Palestinian Arab says something absolutely shocking at Oxford debate


----------



## Hollie

Wait for it....

Here it comes....

"Those Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians" forced to endure such conditions in "The Impoverished Coastal (Islamic Terrorist) Enclave"


"Oh the humanity"
*

With Israel’s Consent, Qatar Gave Gaza $1 Billion Since 2012

With Israel’s consent, Qatar gave Gaza $1 billion since 2012*

Last year Qatar gave Gaza $200 million for aid, fuel and government salaries – and is expected to provide hundreds of millions more this year.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How Exactly did the Arabs deal with Garbage before the State of Israel and especially, since the Oslo Accords and the creation of the PA? ]

Regavim calls on gov't to crack down on garbage burning in PA


----------



## Hollie

Let's hope the $30 million welfare contribution from Qatar can help ease the suffering of _The Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians







Oh, the suffering, suffering...._


----------



## Hollie

Someone's feelings are hurt. We better notify the UN. 


JERUSALEM (AP) — A senior Palestinian official says the U.S. has denied her application for a visa to travel to the United States. In a series of tweets Monday that she believed she had been rejected for political reasons.

The U.S.-educated Ashrawi, 72, said she has visited the U.S. dozens of times. With her fluent English, she is a well-known Palestinian spokeswoman on TV and has met with top U.S. officials over the past three decades.

The Palestinians severed ties with the Trump administration after it recognized contested Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. The U.S. has responded with a series of punitive measures.

US denies visa to senior Palestinian official


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Let's hope the $30 million welfare contribution from Qatar can help ease the suffering of _The Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the suffering, suffering...._



My heart ❤️ breaks for them


----------



## Sixties Fan

*What really happened in Lod?*

Se*v*eral major attacks by Arab forces occurred in the Lod area during Israel’s War of Independence. Lod and Ramle were counter-attacked by the IDF because they were on the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem road and convoys attempting to resupply and reinforce Jerusalem had to travel through the streets of the two towns, routinely under fire. The IDF could not afford to allow Jerusalem to be cut off from the rest of the country.

Yitzhak Rabin, then a commander involved in the operation, later said he agreed with Ben-Gurion’s order to expel the Arabs of Ramle and Lod. The Arabs in Lod were “armed and hostile,” Rabin said, presenting a danger, and they had to be driven away. Fighting with Arab gunmen took place, but no massacre occurred, the enemy during wartime was dealt a heavy blow.

Lod is a town where till this day, the Arab population has been consistently harassing the Jewish population. See my article, “The Jewish Struggle Against Arabs in Israel.”

“This is our memorial day,” National Democratic Assembly member Gabi Tanus said, in Lod at the time. “It is more important to us than the Holocaust is to the Jewish nation.”

Notice that according to them, the Arabs suffered more in Israel than the Jews did during the Holocaust...

(full article online)

Happy Nakba Day!


----------



## Hollie

Hamas Disguises Terrorists as Journalists to Recruit Young Palestinians

Israel's Security Agency (ISA) recently uncovered a secret operation by Hamas to use terrorists disguised as journalists to recruit Palestinians to commit terror attacks against Jews living in Judea and Samaria.

The ISA report names four detained Hamas recruits who said they were asked to carry out terrorist attacks by people they believed to be journalists. 

"This activity by Hamas's military wing is yet another one in the series of attempts by Hamas in the Gaza Strip to carry out terrorist attacks by recruiting operatives in Judea and Samaria and eastern Jerusalem. All these have been disrupted by the ISA in recent years, leading to the arrests of dozens of young operatives in Judea and Samaria and Jerusalem," a senior ISA official said.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Today shows photos of Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists - in masks - giving out water and dates to people in Gaza for Ramadan.

Because they are so humane.

Wouldn't you feel good seeing these people reaching into your car?





(more photos online)

Terrorists wear masks even when giving out dates and water for Ramadan ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestine Today shows photos of Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists - in masks - giving out water and dates to people in Gaza for Ramadan.
> 
> Because they are so humane.
> 
> Wouldn't you feel good seeing these people reaching into your car?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (more photos online)
> 
> Terrorists wear masks even when giving out dates and water for Ramadan ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


So, what is there to be afraid of?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today shows photos of Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists - in masks - giving out water and dates to people in Gaza for Ramadan.
> 
> Because they are so humane.
> 
> Wouldn't you feel good seeing these people reaching into your car?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (more photos online)
> 
> Terrorists wear masks even when giving out dates and water for Ramadan ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is there to be afraid of?
Click to expand...


From islamic terrorist goon squads? I guess that depends on who or what you are.


January 28, 2019

Palestinian political rivalry takes toll on journalists | Reporters without borders

*Palestinian political rivalry takes toll on journalists*






ORGANISATION
RSF_en
As Palestinian journalists continue to be the targets of a month-old wave of arrests and intimidation in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, Reporters Without Borders (RSF) calls on Hamas in Gaza and the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the West Bank not to turn journalists into the collateral victims of their rivalry.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"By Allah, even if we have only a penny left it will be spent on the families of the martyrs and prisoners, and only afterwards will it be spent on the rest of the people." — Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian Media Watch, July 24, 2018.


Evidently, the "rest of the people" includes not only the Palestinian Authority (PA) employees, but also Palestinian patients who are in need of medical treatment. Abbas has now decided to punish these patients by depriving them of medical treatment in Israel.


The PA decision to stop patients from receiving medical treatment in Israel does not apply to senior Palestinian officials.
(full article online)

How Palestinian Leaders Punish Patients


----------



## Hollie

Feeding the psychosis of Islamism.

Another of the patients in the psyche ward of islam is treating the afflicted.




In a video of an address before a crowd at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that was uploaded to the Internet on May 10, 2019, Palestinian cleric Nidhal Siam “Abu Ibrahim” said that this Ramadhan, the Russian, American, and British “devils” will be shackled. He said that the “devils” know that every Muslim “constitutes a time bomb that will explode as soon as the Caliph of the Muslims gives the order [to] come to Jihad.” Abu Ibrahim said that these countries have mobilized their armies throughout the Arab world in order to prevent the establishment of an Islamic State, and that it this was not done in order to fight Iran, which he said is a “seal ring on America’s pinky toe” that is “drowning in collaboration.” He added that the Emir of the Believers will soon emerge and declare the liberation of Al-Aqsa.


"Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Cleric Nidhal Siam: Muslims Are "Time-Bombs” Waiting for the Call to Jihad"



It’s an alternate reality where cartoon characters of people with dangerous psychoses feed there common affliction.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA's 'Animal Farm' and Israel's Generosity - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

If these uppity women were in their hijabs, in their rooms, they would better understand their role in the Islamist social order.



*Palestinians Changing Laws on ‘Honor Killings’*





Dima Abumaria, The Media Line

Palestinians Changing Laws on ‘Honor Killings’ | Jewish Journal

_






March is a special month for women. There was International Women’s Day on the 8th and Mother’s Day in the Palestinian territories is on the 21st. This March, in particular, is also special for Palestinian women for another reason: No longer will men receive reduced sentences for “honor killings.”
_


----------



## Hollie

Those angry Islamists in ski masks are still strolling around in their silly fashion parades. 










*Hamas Urges “Religious War” Against Israel Following Temple Mount Attack*

*Hamas Urges "Religious War" Against Israel Following Temple Mount Attack - The Tower*


----------



## Sixties Fan

She has supported the Palestinian Authority paying terrorist salaries, calling it "social assistance to thousands of families permanently scarred by its illegal policy of mass incarceration and unchecked violence against Palestinians."

- At the outbreak of the second intifada, she expressed support for the terror spree, saying "The only language Sharon understands is the language of violence."

- In 2000, she justified the murder of Jewish civilians in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and Gaza, saying, "In a sense, the army of occupation and the settlers have become legitimate and select targets of Palestinian resistance."

Her NGO "Miftah" has published articles accusing Jews of the blood libel, and even after I exposed its support for antisemitism and terror it still, today, has articles that praise Palestinian female suicide bombers and other terrorists. Before being cleansed it had articles directly supporting suicide bombings.

- In 1995, she said in a speech that no "foreigners" (meaning Jews) should be allowed to immigrate to Israel.

- She has said that allowing Jews to peacefully visit the Temple Mount is a "declaration of war against Islam." (She is Christian.)

-Ashrawi rejects free speech, saying it should be prohibited to "defame" UNRWA.

-The PLO has rejected any talks with the US and even rejects accepting money. Why should the US not treat PLO members the same way?

(full article online)

Why ban Hanan Ashrawi from the US? Let us count the reasons.... ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Yes, the money for parts to build 700 rockets doesn't just fall off the gee-had tree. The iranian Mullocrats are more than happy to see their despised Sunni rivals take one for Ali. 

From June of last year. 


*Gaza’s financial crisis is sending Hamas back into the arms of Iran*

Gaza’s financial crisis is sending Hamas back into the arms of Iran

After relations soured at start of Syrian civil war, terror group now doing all it can to warm ties with Tehran -- which has been generously rewarding border protest participants



The dead Sunni protestors (especially), are rewarded by the Iranian mullocrats. The Mullocrats share an Islamo-high five among themselves.


----------



## Ropey

> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2








Enough said.


----------



## Ropey

Even though it's enough said, here's some more.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Death Cult is doing everything it can to ensure that the next generation of psychopaths will mirror the current. 


*Hamas cancels classes in Gaza to send children to 'riot' against Israel, IDF says*

https://www.foxnews.com/world/idf-hamas-cancels-classes-gaza-children-riot-against-israel

Israel Defense Forces said Tuesday the militant group Hamas is canceling classes in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday to send children to “riot” violently against Israel.

“IDF intelligence can confirm that Hamas has cancelled schools in Gaza tomorrow in order to send the children to participate in violent riots against Israel,” the military tweeted, adding that Hamas distributed the message on social media, television and the radio.


Recent videos linked to Gaza television have urged children to "martyr" themselves against the Jewish state, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute. The press monitoring and analysis organization included a Gaza TV Media YouTube account which posted a video last month of a small Jordanian boy volunteering to go to Jerusalem and die as a martyr.
*
*


----------



## Hollie

I hope this guy doesn’t wind up on the business end of a fatwa.
*

"Lebanese Journalist Nadim Koteich Blames Islamic Jihad, Hamas for Clashes: Israel Withdrew from Gaza in 2005"*

_Lebanese journalist Nadim Koteich accused the Islamic Jihad of starting the recent round of fighting with Israel.  Speaking in an interview with the Lebanese LDC TV channel on May 11, 2019, he said that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, representing the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran respectively, should have turned Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza into an opportunity for a national Palestinian compromise, but that instead, they have “thwarted all opportunities for peace” and have “ended up in a prison called Gaza.”_


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I hope this guy doesn’t wind up on the business end of a fatwa.
> *
> 
> "Lebanese Journalist Nadim Koteich Blames Islamic Jihad, Hamas for Clashes: Israel Withdrew from Gaza in 2005"*
> 
> _Lebanese journalist Nadim Koteich accused the Islamic Jihad of starting the recent round of fighting with Israel.  Speaking in an interview with the Lebanese LDC TV channel on May 11, 2019, he said that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, representing the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran respectively, should have turned Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza into an opportunity for a national Palestinian compromise, but that instead, they have “thwarted all opportunities for peace” and have “ended up in a prison called Gaza.”_





Hollie said:


> Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza into an opportunity


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this guy doesn’t wind up on the business end of a fatwa.
> *
> 
> "Lebanese Journalist Nadim Koteich Blames Islamic Jihad, Hamas for Clashes: Israel Withdrew from Gaza in 2005"*
> 
> _Lebanese journalist Nadim Koteich accused the Islamic Jihad of starting the recent round of fighting with Israel.  Speaking in an interview with the Lebanese LDC TV channel on May 11, 2019, he said that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, representing the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran respectively, should have turned Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza into an opportunity for a national Palestinian compromise, but that instead, they have “thwarted all opportunities for peace” and have “ended up in a prison called Gaza.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza into an opportunity
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


That was quite your usual inability to offer a coherent comment. 

The fact remains, however, that 2005 was an opportunity lost by Arabs-Moslems as their pattern of failure and ineptitude would be repeated.


----------



## Hollie

A pretty good article surrounding the recent (and permanent) retirement of several Iranian flunkies connected to Hamas. 

Israel has left the Islamic terrorists with a clear message that those at the top of the Iranian pay scale will be smears on the pavement if they choose to play _The Islamic Terrorist Game._ 




Will killing of Hamas cadre set off chain of assassinations?

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/or...orist-israel-assassination.html#ixzz5o0w5cVj7

While the assassination of Khudari shows that Israel is no longer hesitant to carry out assassinations against Palestinians, it has also served as a wake-up call for Hamas; it shows that Israel could start a confrontation by assassinating a Hamas cadre. While Hamas does not desire such a scenario, it will be embarrassing and difficult for it to stand idly by if Israel assassinates one Hamas fighter after another.


----------



## Hollie

Those “Poor, Impoverished Arab-Moslems”, need your help to ease their suffering. Please send cash.


----------



## Hollie

How cruel that the “Poor, Impoverished Pal’istanians” are made to suffer at luxury hotels near The Gaza’istan Marina.







Please ease the suffering. Bitcoin is preferred for supporting Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Now that’s a well behaved Islamic terrorist. 

I’m delighted they will be respectful and join the celebration of the re-birth of Israel. 



Hamas urge restraint during ‘Nakba’ day protests as truce holds during Eurovision


----------



## Hollie

An Islamic anniversary, of sorts. It’s the anniversary of a rather regrettable time when combined, Crusading Arab-Moslem armies pushed aside and displaced other Arabs-Moslems in their invasion that was intended to push the Israelis into the sea by gunfire. 


Palestinians mark anniversary of mass displacement

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Palestinians on Wednesday marked the 71st anniversary of their mass displacement during the 1948 war around Israel's creation with protests across the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Thousands of people streamed to the Gaza-Israel frontier as the militant Hamas group, which controls Gaza, announced a general strike, closing schools and public institutions to allow for a large turnout.


----------



## Hollie

Another of the best and brightest from a franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc., _is rattling on with pompous threats.


Speaking at a May 15 "Nakba Day" rally in the Gaza Strip, Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad said that the final hours, months, and years before the liberation of Palestine have come. He said Palestine will be liberated in "no more than a few years," and he addressed the "Zionist enemy," saying: "The day of your slaughter, extermination, and annihilation has drawn near… You should search for a place in Europe, or in Hell, or in the ocean, or in the Bermuda Triangle, because there is no place for you in [here] or anywhere." Hammad's speech aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas/Gaza).


"Hamas Official Fathi Hammad: Slaughter of Zionists Is Near; They Should Look for a Place in Europe, in Hell, Or in the Bermuda Triangle"


----------



## Hollie

Those angry Death Cultists. They’re so cute when launch themselves into these “episodes” of self-hate induced psychoses. 


On Nakba Day, Hamas and Islamic Jihad vow to 'liberate Palestine'

Defiant Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders said that the Palestinian struggle against Israel will continue until the “liberation of all Palestine.”
Marking the 71st anniversary of Nakba (“Catastrophe”) Day, Palestinian leaders in the West Bank and Gaza Strip on Wednesday vowed to foil US President Donald Trump’s upcoming plan for peace in the Middle East, also known as the “deal of the century,” pledging never to give up the “right of return” for Palestinian refugees and their descendants to their former homes in Israel.

Defiant Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders said that the Palestinian struggle against Israel will continue until the “liberation of all Palestine.”


----------



## Hollie

The Egyptians apparently no longer want to act as referee between the angry, Dark Age loons in the competing welfare fraud franchises operating in Fatah’istan and Hamas’istan. 

It may not be long before these Islamic organized crime syndicates start slamming away at each other and resume their civil war. 

Best.




*Hamas-Fatah standoff vexes Egypt as mediator*

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — There has been speculation that Egypt has given up on mediating a reconciliation between rival Palestinian factions Hamas in the Gaza Strip and Fatah in the West Bank, but so far Egypt hasn't said it will throw in the towel.

Palestinian Islamic Jihad Secretary General Ziyad al-Nakhaleh told Al-Mayadeen May 7, “Egypt will no longer oversee the reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas.” Nakhaleh arrived in Cairo May 3 upon invitation from Egypt to meet with intelligence officials to discuss the Palestinian political situation.



Read more: Hamas-Fatah standoff vexes Egypt as mediator


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians need to rethink the ‘nakba,’ not refight it


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, dears. Islamic rioters are complying about their “rough treatment” by Islamic terrorists.
*


Report: Gaza Rioters Angry at Hamas ‘Rough Treatment’

Report: Gaza Rioters Angry at Hamas 'Rough Treatment' | Hamodia.com
*
Meanwhile, Gaza Arabs were complaining that Hamas had treated them too harshly during the Nakba Day riots on Wednesday, Channel 13 reported. Hamas had set its operatives as buffers between rioters and IDF soldiers on the other side of the border fence, and in social media posts there were dozens of complaints of “rough handling” of rioters by the Hamas operatives. Several said that they would no longer participate in the riots if the Hamas behavior kept up.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. It’s hard to imagine why anyone would want to leave the islsmic terrorist mini-caliphate of Pal’istan.

“Pal’istan - the Islamist Terrorist mini-caliphate where dreams come true”™️ 



*35,000 Palestinians Left Gaza in 2018; Hamas Blocking Doctors From Leaving *

35,000 Palestinians left Gaza in 2018; Hamas blocking doctors from leaving


Most of those departing were young, educated and relatively well-off, and mainly reach Europe via Turkey and then Greece

Yaniv Kubovich  
May 19, 2019 8:27 AM






Some 35,000 Palestinians who left the Gaza Strip via Egypt last year haven’t returned, according to Israeli estimates, most of whom were young, educated and comparatively well-off.


Their main motive for leaving was Gaza’s dire economic situation.

Among them were 150 doctors employed at Gazan hospitals. Fear that this brain drain would continue led the Strip's Hamas government to bar physicians from leaving the territory.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, angry, self-hating Islamics. It seems to be a syndrome with both of the mini-caliphates. 

Their entire worldview focuses around the successes of Israel while they are unable to explain the reasons for their endless failures and self-inflicted misfortunes. 
*



Fatah and PA cartoons*
*link Eurovision music to violence*
*
Fatah and PA cartoons link Eurovision music to violence - PMW Bulletins*






By Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Maurice Hirsch
Last night The Netherlands won the Eurovision Song Contest 2019 in Tel Aviv. During the week leading up to the final, Fatah campaigned for the boycott of the Eurovision as documented by Palestinian Media Watch, but to no avail. Today, both Fatah and the Palestinian Authority daily published cartoons linking Israeli music to violence, including the visual depiction of the common PA libel that Israel intentionally kills civilians.
Fatah posted the cartoon above on Facebook, showing an Israeli soldier shooting at Palestinians in Gaza. Musical notes are flowing from the "Eurovision" but turn into an ammunition belt for the soldier's machine gun.


----------



## Hollie

Firstly, I got a laugh when reading about a “foreign minister” from an Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate. Other than begging for welfare money from foreign donors, I’d be hard pressed to define what “Riad” actually does. 

Secondly, who is the “we” that this Islamic terrorist enabler is referring to when describing “we” must integrate an Islamic terrorist franchise into mainstream politics? 

Why would anyone feel a need to “integrate” Islamic terrorists into legitimate political discourse? 



*We must integrate Hamas into mainstream politics, Palestinian foreign minister argues*

https://www.thejc.com/news/world/in...ister-argues-riad-riyad-malki-israel-1.484338

Hamas is part of the Palestinian reality and calling it a terror group prevents it from being integrated into mainstream politics, the Palestinian foreign minister Riad Malki has argued.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans who enter Egypt must fly out the very same day ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah and PA cartoons link Eurovision music to violence - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Some Concentration Camp  !!!!  ]

Hamas said to impose restrictions after young, educated Gazans exited for ‘vacations’ through reopened Rafah Crossing to escape and seek better lives in Europe

(full article online)

35,000 Palestinians left Gaza in 2018 via Egypt and Turkey – report


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, angry Islamic terrorists. They do feel slighted when others don’t buy into the phony “occupation” meme. 


*Hamas blasts German condemnation of BDS*

*Hamas blasts German condemnation of BDS
*
The Hamas terrorist organization condemned the German Bundestag’s approval of a resolution condemning the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement as anti-Semitic.


----------



## Hollie

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-tried-to-down-an-idf-helicopter-during-fighting-this-month-report/*

*Gaza officials say Hamas men were aiming a shoulder-mounted missile when they were hit in an Israeli airstrike

*
There were reports that indicated one of the Islamic terrorists had just enough time to yell out “_run, here comes a missil_” when an IDF launched Hellfire missile (with a smiley face painted on the nose), delivered a generous Islamic Terrorist Early Retirement Package to the Islamo-knuckleheads.


----------



## Hollie

I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel. 






Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement

*HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*


What agreement? What are the terms?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
Click to expand...


Tried reading?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
Click to expand...

Read what? The link didn't say much.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
Click to expand...


Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
C'mon You can make it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you don't know what it said either.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
Click to expand...

I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.
Click to expand...

What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.



Of course Arab Palestinians are going to sign off on a one-sided ceasefire.  You know how I know?  Because they are the ones instigating the fire.  They can't HELP but sign off on a one-sided agreement.  Because the violence is not actually mutual.

The problem is that they expect to instigate violence and then get goodies.  Not going to happen anymore.  Or they expect to instigate violence and then get the status quo back.  Fast losing that game.

And the next step Israel is going to have to take is for them to instigate violence and then have both consequences and restitution to be made before even the status quo returns.  As it should be.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t believe the Iranian Mullocrats would allow their flunkies in Gaza to accept any ceasefire. The mullahs have an interest in seeing more dead Sunni Islamics. I suspect the Iranian welfare checks to Hamas would abruptly stop if the Hamas errand boys made any ceasefire agreement with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas denies Israeli media reports of six-months ceasefire agreement
> 
> *HAMAS DENIES ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS OF SIX-MONTHS CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT*
> 
> 
> 
> What agreement? What are the terms?
Click to expand...


You’re in denial.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
> 
> 
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.
Click to expand...


Are you going to lose your Iranian welfare check if you don’t tow the Mullocratic party line?


----------



## Hollie

Follow up on the “liquefaction” of Arab-Moslem terrorists.

The Mullocrats are not going to be happy about a rocket launcher being damaged. Sunni Islamics they don’t care about as those are expendable. 

Just another day in the Islamic Death Cult.




*YERUSHALAYIM* - 

Report: Hamas Anti-Helicopter Squad Intercepted | Hamodia.com

Hamas terrorists who were about to launch a shoulder-mounted missile at an Israeli helicopter during the recent Gaza fighting were themselves liquidated by an Air Force jet who spotted them just in time, according to a report Monday in the Yerushalayim-based Palestinian newspaper Al-Quds.


----------



## Hollie

Ok, stop me if you’ve heard this one before.

PMW Bulletins
*The figures show that the PA financial crisis is fake *

The figures show that the PA financial crisis is fake - PMW Bulletins

by Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
May 20, 2019

*The figures show that the PA financial crisis is fake*

The PA's total revenue from taxes collected by Israel in January-February 2019 was 109 million shekels higher than in the corresponding period last year, amounting to 1.471 billion shekels, compared to 1.362 billion shekels

Even after Israel’s freezing the transfer of money that the PA spends on prisoner's salaries, the PA’s revenue from taxes was higher than the average monthly transfer of taxes to the PA in 2018.

*The PA's current economic crisis is the result of the PA leadership's own decision to cripple the Palestinian economy - all in order to continue to paying generous salaries to terrorists*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→

Now, how interesting. 



Hollie said:


> Ok, stop me if you’ve heard this one before.
> PMW Bulletins
> *The figures show that the PA financial crisis is fake *
> by Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> May 20, 2019


*(COMMENT)*

Somebody is going to feel the impact. 

All of these stories seem to be missing the balance sheets.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Arab Palestinians are going to sign off on a one-sided ceasefire.  You know how I know?  Because they are the ones instigating the fire.  They can't HELP but sign off on a one-sided agreement.  Because the violence is not actually mutual.
> 
> The problem is that they expect to instigate violence and then get goodies.  Not going to happen anymore.  Or they expect to instigate violence and then get the status quo back.  Fast losing that game.
> 
> And the next step Israel is going to have to take is for them to instigate violence and then have both consequences and restitution to be made before even the status quo returns.  As it should be.
Click to expand...

You are a hoot!


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→
> 
> Now, how interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, stop me if you’ve heard this one before.
> PMW Bulletins
> *The figures show that the PA financial crisis is fake *
> by Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> May 20, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Somebody is going to feel the impact.
> 
> All of these stories seem to be missing the balance sheets.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Somehow, I don’t envision either the PA or Hamas being agreeable to an outside audit of their finances. My opinion is that both those entities have no desire to explain to anyone where a great deal of international welfare money is located.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried reading?
> 
> 
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.
Click to expand...


Can I address You from now as the official spokesperson,
or  does that feed the dementia?

Dude read the link, really what's wrong with You??


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read what? The link didn't say much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I address You from now as the official spokesperson,
> or  does that feed the dementia?
> 
> Dude read the link, really what's wrong with You??
Click to expand...


Frustrating, isn't it?  This has been going on for the 13 years that I've been on here, and probably long before that.


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah version of Islamic terrorists are in a bit of a huff.

*



Fatah posted offensive Holocaust video*
*after Al-Jazeera condemned and removed it*

Fatah posted offensive Holocaust video after Al-Jazeera condemned and removed it - PMW Bulletins

*Al-Jazeera condemned its own journalists’ offensive Holocaust report:*
*“Al-Jazeera stated today, that it has taken disciplinary action and suspended two of its journalists over video content produced on the Holocaust.”*

*Fatah republished the video on Facebook: *
*“Al-Jazeera TV did a favor to the occupation (i.e., Israel) and erased the video. Let’s publish it again.”*


By Itamar Marcus











On May 18, 2019, Al-Jazeera journalists produced an offensive report on the Holocaust. It accused Israel of “having benefitted the most from” the Holocaust, questioned the numbers killed in the Holocaust, and said it was the Jewish control of the media that created so much focus on the Holocaust even though the Jews were just one group among many who were murdered by the Nazis. The report was so offensive that Al-Jazeera itself condemned it, removed it from their website, and suspended the journalists:

“Al-Jazeera stated today, that it has taken disciplinary action and suspended two of its journalists over video content produced on the Holocaust... Dr. Yaser Bishr, Executive Director of Digital Division, stated that Al Jazeera completely disowns the offensive content in question and reiterated that Al Jazeera would not tolerate such material on any of the Network’s platforms.”



 PA leader Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party was upset that Al-Jazeera removed the video. Fatah criticized Al-Jazeera’s actions as benefiting Israel, and decided to post the entire offensive Holocaust report on its Facebook page.

Posted text: “Al-Jazeera TV did a favor to the occupation (i.e., Israel) and erased the video. Let’s publish it again.”
[Official Fatah Facebook page, 
May 20, 2019]

Palestinian Media Watch has reported that Holocaust denial, trivialization, and distortion are all common themes of the Palestinian Authority and its leaders. 

_*The following text is part of the Al-Jazeera video that Fatah reposted on its official Facebook page:*_





*Al-Jazeera narrator:* “Six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis -this is the narrative that the Zionist movement adopted and emphasizes every year in marking what is known as Holocaust Remembrance Day. Let us tell you the story of the Holocaust...
After the Holocaust, the Zionist movement claimed that two out of every three Jews were murdered. How and why did it happen? ...


----------



## Ropey

> Who are the Palestinians?








^Arabs & allied with the Hitler Muslim brigades.






^The Grand Mufti of Palestine.






^More of the Grand Mufti of Palestine.






^Palestinian iow ARAB attempting to lie her way out of the truth.

.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian refusal to help their own economy and people should be a source of shame ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ancient Jewish burial tomb desecrated by Arab grave-robbers


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> How cruel that the “Poor, Impoverished Pal’istanians” are made to suffer at luxury hotels near The Gaza’istan Marina.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please ease the suffering. Bitcoin is preferred for supporting Islamic terrorism.











look, they have the Infinity lounge.....







 ....can't go in though........








_rules are rules_



That seems like a nice...Hotel.

what about this palestinian refugee camp [in Lebanon]:














no money in abbass & hamasses corporate account for refugee camp renovations ? no money for paint or...asphalt ?


...they don't have to have expensive marble floors & wood paneling -- but, they sure do build things for le$$ these days...





shipping containers and railroad cars.......they make great [inexpensive homes] for people on a ...terrorist-budget.






















I guess the palestinians can't ....change the infrastructure to something "lighter" and with more curb appeal.... (you know, when israel has to take a heavy hand <after hamass launches unprovoked rockets and bombs into israel> so,  concrete seems better for terrorists when they dive for cover.....


----------



## Hollie

I believe the reality is that Gaza remains vulnerable to another beatdown when the Islamic terrorists launch more attack. This latest Hudna will likely not last long. 
*


Gaza remains highly flammable, despite reports of Israel’s ‘new understanding with Hamas’*

*Gaza remains highly flammable, despite reports of Israel’s ‘new understanding with Hamas’
*
Hamas has yet to resolve the paradox of being a terror organization and a regime responsible for nearly 2 million Gazans. It tries to juggle both of these competing identities, in addition to keeping in check other terror groups ensconced in the area.






I don’t necessarily agree with the ‘paradox” described in the article. Hamas is first and foremost an Islamic terrorist franchise of the Muslim Brotherhood.

It’s a mistake to describe Hamas as being responsible for Gazans.  I think one could make the case that it is largely UNRWA that is responsible for much of the “management” of the civil affairs that Hamas cannot perform.


----------



## Hollie

It's actually comical that these Dark Agers are suggesting that islamic ideology will "liberate" anything. 



ON NAKBA DAY, HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD VOW TO 'LIBERATE PALESTINE

Israel online news | The Jerusalem Post

Defiant Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders said that the Palestinian struggle against Israel will continue until the “liberation of all Palestine.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I believe the reality is that Gaza remains vulnerable to another beatdown when the Islamic terrorists launch more attack. This latest Hudna will likely not last long.
> *
> 
> 
> Gaza remains highly flammable, despite reports of Israel’s ‘new understanding with Hamas’*
> 
> *Gaza remains highly flammable, despite reports of Israel’s ‘new understanding with Hamas’
> *
> Hamas has yet to resolve the paradox of being a terror organization and a regime responsible for nearly 2 million Gazans. It tries to juggle both of these competing identities, in addition to keeping in check other terror groups ensconced in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t necessarily agree with the ‘paradox” described in the article. Hamas is first and foremost an Islamic terrorist franchise of the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> It’s a mistake to describe Hamas as being responsible for Gazans.  I think one could make the case that it is largely UNRWA that is responsible for much of the “management” of the civil affairs that Hamas cannot perform.


It doesn't look like anything that Hamas would sign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the reality is that Gaza remains vulnerable to another beatdown when the Islamic terrorists launch more attack. This latest Hudna will likely not last long.
> *
> 
> 
> Gaza remains highly flammable, despite reports of Israel’s ‘new understanding with Hamas’*
> 
> *Gaza remains highly flammable, despite reports of Israel’s ‘new understanding with Hamas’
> *
> Hamas has yet to resolve the paradox of being a terror organization and a regime responsible for nearly 2 million Gazans. It tries to juggle both of these competing identities, in addition to keeping in check other terror groups ensconced in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t necessarily agree with the ‘paradox” described in the article. Hamas is first and foremost an Islamic terrorist franchise of the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> It’s a mistake to describe Hamas as being responsible for Gazans.  I think one could make the case that it is largely UNRWA that is responsible for much of the “management” of the civil affairs that Hamas cannot perform.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like anything that Hamas would sign.
Click to expand...


You should issue that on their letterhead.


----------



## Hollie

An odd term "insentivize" Pal'istanians. 

Generations of Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians" have come and gone with a cradle to grave "incentive" focused on collecting welfare while destroying themselves in the pursuit of killing Jews. 

The islamic terroist mini-caliphates (those in Gaza and the West Bank), are "insentivized" by a 1400 year old socio-political code that holds a desert Arab warlord as the highest ideal for all ummah'ists. That code embraces a virulent hatred for non-islamics. 








HAMAS OPPOSES TRUMP'S BAHRAIN WORKSHOP MEANT TO INCENTIVIZE PALESTINIANS

Israel online news | The Jerusalem Post


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> An odd term "insentivize" Pal'istanians.
> 
> Generations of Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians" have come and gone with a cradle to grave "incentive" focused on collecting welfare while destroying themselves in the pursuit of killing Jews.
> 
> The islamic terroist mini-caliphates (those in Gaza and the West Bank), are "insentivized" by a 1400 year old socio-political code that holds a desert Arab warlord as the highest ideal for all ummah'ists. That code embraces a virulent hatred for non-islamics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS OPPOSES TRUMP'S BAHRAIN WORKSHOP MEANT TO INCENTIVIZE PALESTINIANS
> 
> Israel online news | The Jerusalem Post


Do you mean like paying them to surrender?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> An odd term "insentivize" Pal'istanians.
> 
> Generations of Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pal'istanians" have come and gone with a cradle to grave "incentive" focused on collecting welfare while destroying themselves in the pursuit of killing Jews.
> 
> The islamic terroist mini-caliphates (those in Gaza and the West Bank), are "insentivized" by a 1400 year old socio-political code that holds a desert Arab warlord as the highest ideal for all ummah'ists. That code embraces a virulent hatred for non-islamics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS OPPOSES TRUMP'S BAHRAIN WORKSHOP MEANT TO INCENTIVIZE PALESTINIANS
> 
> Israel online news | The Jerusalem Post
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like paying them to surrender?
Click to expand...


Are you suggesting your cut and paste gee-had will continue?


----------



## Hollie

*Human Rights NGO Reports on Hamas’ Abuses in Gaza Strip*

Israel online news | The Jerusalem Post

_






A Hamas terrorist uses a child as a human shield. (Credit: Yeshiva World screen capture)

A human-rights nongovernmental organization that has a special consultative status in the United Nations released a report last week that documented the fact that several hundred people were summoned, arrested and detained over the course of a year by the terrorist group Hamas solely because of their political beliefs.



_
I find it shocking (*Shocking*) that islamic terrorists controlling an islamic terrorist dictatorship are abusing human rights.


----------



## Hollie

Greenblatt: Hamas must be pressured to keep the peace with Israel

US Special Envoy calls on the UN to denounce Hamas as a terror group for its actions against both Israelis and Palestinians.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad must be pressured to keep the peace with Israel, US special envoy Jason Greenblatt told the United Nations Security Council in New York, after incendiary balloons launched from Gaza into southern Israel threatened to destroy the fragile calm that has held in that area for the last few weeks. 

“We must all speak loudly and clearly and say that these attacks upon Israel, which are perpetrated by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whether by rockets, incendiary balloons or other methods, must end,” Greenblatt told the United Nations Security Council on Wednesday during a debate on the Middle East.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate is born anew. 

It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that principles such as democracy, representative rule, rule of law, etc. would survive in an Islamist, totalitarian fear society. Religious totalitarianism / authoritarianism is the norm in Arab-Moslem society and that plays out in the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza and the West Bank. 
*



PMW op-ed: 
PA Prime Minister puts the last nail 
in the coffin of Palestinian democracy*
*
PMW op-ed: PA Prime Minister puts the last nail in the coffin of Palestinian democracy - PMW Bulletins*

*Western powers have invested tens of millions of dollars to create a Palestinian democracy but it remains non-existent*
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus

By announcing last week that the Palestinian Authority elections would take place "the moment national reconciliation is achieved," PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh was putting the final nail in the coffin of the already non-existent Palestinian democracy, as such a reconciliation is unlikely to ever happen.

Since the Fatah and Hamas civil war in 2007, the sides have attempted to reconcile and have even signed several agreements, but to no avail. The power struggle is fundamental, and reconciliation - if at all realistic - is something for the distant future. Therefore, postponing elections until after reconciliation is an indefinite postponement that perpetuates the current dictatorial rule.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate is born anew.
> 
> It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that principles such as democracy, representative rule, rule of law, etc. would survive in an Islamist, totalitarian fear society. Religious totalitarianism / authoritarianism is the norm in Arab-Moslem society and that plays out in the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza and the West Bank.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> PMW op-ed:
> PA Prime Minister puts the last nail
> in the coffin of Palestinian democracy
> 
> PMW op-ed: PA Prime Minister puts the last nail in the coffin of Palestinian democracy - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> *Western powers have invested tens of millions of dollars to create a Palestinian democracy but it remains non-existent*
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
> 
> By announcing last week that the Palestinian Authority elections would take place "the moment national reconciliation is achieved," PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh was putting the final nail in the coffin of the already non-existent Palestinian democracy, as such a reconciliation is unlikely to ever happen.
> 
> Since the Fatah and Hamas civil war in 2007, the sides have attempted to reconcile and have even signed several agreements, but to no avail. The power struggle is fundamental, and reconciliation - if at all realistic - is something for the distant future. Therefore, postponing elections until after reconciliation is an indefinite postponement that perpetuates the current dictatorial rule.


*The never answered question.*

Fatah lost the elections. How are they running the West Bank?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate is born anew.
> 
> It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that principles such as democracy, representative rule, rule of law, etc. would survive in an Islamist, totalitarian fear society. Religious totalitarianism / authoritarianism is the norm in Arab-Moslem society and that plays out in the competing mini-caliphates in Gaza and the West Bank.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> PMW op-ed:
> PA Prime Minister puts the last nail
> in the coffin of Palestinian democracy
> 
> PMW op-ed: PA Prime Minister puts the last nail in the coffin of Palestinian democracy - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> *Western powers have invested tens of millions of dollars to create a Palestinian democracy but it remains non-existent*
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
> 
> By announcing last week that the Palestinian Authority elections would take place "the moment national reconciliation is achieved," PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh was putting the final nail in the coffin of the already non-existent Palestinian democracy, as such a reconciliation is unlikely to ever happen.
> 
> Since the Fatah and Hamas civil war in 2007, the sides have attempted to reconcile and have even signed several agreements, but to no avail. The power struggle is fundamental, and reconciliation - if at all realistic - is something for the distant future. Therefore, postponing elections until after reconciliation is an indefinite postponement that perpetuates the current dictatorial rule.
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question.*
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. How are they running the West Bank?
Click to expand...


*Your always present conspiracy theories.
*
Ask your homies in Hamas and Fatah about the relevance of elections in islamic terrorist mini-caliphates.


----------



## Ropey

> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2


438 pages when only one post is necessary.

They are Arabs from Arabia. They are genetically identical to Arabs...thus ... Arabs.

From Arabia.  Not Eretz Yisroal.


----------



## Hollie

*In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel*

Published April 25, 2018
Last Update April 25, 2018
 By Michael Levin, | Fox News


_In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel

I’m just back home in the U.S. from a visit to Israel, where for four straight Fridays the Hamas terrorist group that rules the Gaza Strip has organized protests at the border with Israel involving thousands of Palestinians. Some of the protesters have attacked Israel’s border security fence “with explosives, firebombs and other means,” The Associated Press reported.

“Huge plumes of smoke from burning tires (set afire by demonstrators) engulfed the border area,” the AP reported from the scene. “Some of the activists` threw stones toward the fence or flew kites with flaming rags dangling from their tails.”

In other words, what’s happening on the Gaza-Israel border is not a peaceful protest. While most protesters aren’t joining in the violence, some are violent and dangerous terrorists who want to tear down Israel’s security fence to make it easy to launch deadly attacks on the Jewish state.

Acting to defend their nation, Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian attackers along the border since the protests began March 30, despite the best efforts by the Israelis to use the minimal force required.

_
*Wait for it. Here's the bottom line... [ed.]*
_No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher.
_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah seeks reconciliation with Hamas; Hamas promises "extermination" of Israel - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address:*
*'An Islamic state would have strategy to soften infidels'*

Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: 'An Islamic state would have strategy to soften infidels'

PA cleric adds: 'If infidels are bullheaded, Caliph would give the code word: "Seek Allah's help and fight them".'





Just when you think the pathology these people are afflicted with couldn't get any worse, they step up and show themselves to be pious, observant Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute when they share their illnesses in group, Death Cult meetings.

_On March 25, 2019, Mayadeen TV (Lebanon) aired a report about an online campaign in Gaza to encourage support of the "resistance." The reporter, Lana Shahin, said that the campaign, which was launched by Hamas' military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, strives to use modern and secure methods, and she briefly discussed the Brigades' cryptocurrency campaign (see MEMRI TV Clip No. 7117). A man who was interviewed in the report said that many foreign activists have tried sending messages of support to the resistance, and the report showed some videos, including one of small children expressing their support. Gazan activist Warda Al-Zebda said that Palestinian women who have sacrificed their children for the resistance should be role models for all free people in the world, and that those who cannot sacrifice blood for the resistance should sacrifice money instead. Iyad Al-Qarra, the Head of the Board of Directors of the Youth Media Center, was also briefly interviewed, and he referred to the Palestinian youth involved in the campaign as the "Twitterati."_




"Hamas Military Wing Launches Online Campaign to Encourage Support of the "Resistance""


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas moles are busy tunnelling.

It's surprising just how much time, energy and money that the islamic terrorists devote to burrowing underground.



















Kabbalist Rabbi Allegedly Helped IDF Locate Network of Hamas Attack Tunnels

As part of Operation Protective Edge against the Hamas movement in 2014, the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) demolished 32 underground "terror tunnels" along the Gaza border, 14 of which crossed into Israel.

A Kabbalist rabbi located Palestinian attack tunnels, which were subsequently destroyed during the 2014 Israel-Gaza War, known as Operation Protective Edge, before the IDF identified them, _Zman Yisrael_reported.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Yes, you're on the money here_*!*_



Hollie said:


> *In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel*
> *Wait for it. Here's the bottom line... [ed.]*
> _No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher._


*(COMMENT)*

It is unfortunate that _(what few) _rational and sane Arab Palestinians there are in the territories, they have had to experience such retarded rate of improvement and development in terms of quality of life and life expectancy, education and scientific research, cultural and infrastructure advancements _(including per capita income through commerce)_.   But the fact is that there is no practical way _(at this time)_ to allow this to happen and prevent the spread of the hostile elements.  And there is no "reliable" way to prevent the spread because of the virtually the entire Arab Palestinians population has been exposed through generationally.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: How Palestinian Arson Terrorists Scorch Israeli Farmland


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> WATCH: How Palestinian Arson Terrorists Scorch Israeli Farmland


Israel has had a year to figure this out. Still clueless.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Kabbalist Rabbi Allegedly Helped IDF Locate Network of Hamas Attack Tunnels - As part of Operation Protective Edge against the Hamas movement in 2014, the Israel Defence Forces _*(IDF) demolished 32 underground "terror tunnels" along the Gaza border, 14 of which crossed into Israel*_.[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Hamas moles are busy tunnelling. It's surprising just how much time, energy and money that the islamic terrorists devote to burrowing underground."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....way too many tunnels being built under israel's nose.  makes no sense to me? it's 2019.  don't they have a task force that just focuses on...terrorist tunneling ?
> 
> 
> 
> _*"It is unfortunate that (what few) rational and sane Arab Palestinians there are in the territories, they have had to experience such retarded rate of improvement and development in terms of quality of life and life expectancy, education and scientific research, cultural and infrastructure advancements (including per capita income through commerce). But the fact is that there is no practical way (at this time) to allow this to happen and prevent the spread of the hostile elements. And there is no "reliable" way to prevent the spread because of the virtually the entire Arab Palestinians population has been exposed through generationally."*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (in certain places, like, afghanistan, yemen, the gaza strip) --- "it" [islam] gets in the way for ...what you said.......advancement, etc, a.f.a.i.c.).....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Government of the Palestinians"
> 
> 
> 
> They all look alike.......
> 
> 
> him too:


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Usually during lessons with kids I tell them to read out loud...
> C'mon You can make it.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I address You from now as the official spokesperson,
> or  does that feed the dementia?
> 
> Dude read the link, really what's wrong with You??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Frustrating, isn't it?  This has been going on for the 13 years that I've been on here, and probably long before that.
Click to expand...

I'm here 5 years, came to learn the psychology of Jew hatred and understand where that obsession with my country comes from among the people who are not bigots. Just cannot but notice how most of it (99.99%) coincides with banal corruption, not only the obsession with Jews, but the opposite of any integrity, degradation and usually enmity towards other much bigger groups within the home society.

Has it become more banal, any patterns You see after 13 years?


----------



## Hollie

It sure didn’t take long for the islamic terrorists to continue their Islamic terrorist activities,

*Israel reduces Gaza fishing zone in response to launching of arson balloons*

*Gaza's fishing zone reduced to 10 nautical miles after at least 11 arson balloons are launched from the Hamas run Strip at Israel, says Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories. Several fires reported at Israeli fields adjacent to the Gaza border.*
by  i24NEWS and Israel Hayom Staff 

 Published on  2019-05-23 10:52
 Last modified: 2019-05-23 10:52


----------



## Hollie

The latest ceasefire with the Islamic terrorists seems to have lasted about three days. The Arabs-Moslems are still carrying on with their balloon gee-had and the border riots are to resume.

So, in reality, nothing has changed relative to the actions of the Islamic terrorists.





Palestinians call for peaceful Friday protests • US demands Hamas keep the peace

Flaming Gaza balloons threaten to ignite violence

Flaming Gaza balloons ignited fires throughout the South on Thursday, threatening to break the fragile informal truce between Israel and Hamas in advance of anticipated border riots on Friday.

Under the terms of the truce believed to be in play between the IDF and Hamas, the weekly Gaza border riots must remain peaceful.

The organizers of the protests, known as the March of Return, called on Palestinians to continue the weekly protests near the border, including this Friday.


----------



## Hollie

Just can’t wait for the Islamic terrorist riots to start again.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

I would have thought that the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip would have tied out by now.



Hollie said:


> The latest ceasefire with the Islamic terrorists seems to have lasted about three days. ...   ...   ...
> 
> The organizers of the protests, known as the March of Return, called on Palestinians to continue the weekly protests near the border, including this Friday.


*(COMMENT)*

I wonder why the Media has not pointed out that the tactics employed by the Arab Palestinians of Gaza are a violation of the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.

Article I • Para 3a • An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death,serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I would have thought that the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip would have tied out by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The latest ceasefire with the Islamic terrorists seems to have lasted about three days. ...   ...   ...
> 
> The organizers of the protests, known as the March of Return, called on Palestinians to continue the weekly protests near the border, including this Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder why the Media has not pointed out that the tactics employed by the Arab Palestinians of Gaza are a violation of the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.
> 
> Article I • Para 3a • An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death,serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I think that the border riots confirm that Hamas is dutifully fulfilling the intent of their charter which describes early on:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."


----------



## Hollie

The Palwatch article begins with sentence, "Starting in the Middle Ages". 

For so much of the islamic world "Starting in the Middle Ages", seems to also describe the limit of societal advancement. 
*




Fatah renews blood libel* 

By Itamar Marcus 

Fatah renews blood libel  - PMW Bulletins

Starting in the Middle Ages, Jews have been accused of murdering children for ritual purposes, of poisoning wells, and more. Palestinians regularly renew the child-killing libel, claiming Israel deliberately murders Palestinian children. 

Here is a new example from Abbas' Fatah Movement in Lebanon: 






[Falestinona, website of Fatah’s Information and Culture Commission in Lebanon,
May 6, 2019]


In the cartoon, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is shown with a bloody hand, smiling over a presumably dead Palestinian infant from Gaza that has blood dripping from it. Netanyahu murdered the baby, leaving it for the Palestinian Muslim family (symbolized by the man's crescent head) for the month of Ramadan.


----------



## Hollie

Another funny islamic terrorist fashion show brigade announced as something called a "Mujahideen Brigade". 

These must be a collection of second string losers as they don't have the standard issue ski masks used by the first string islamic terrorist gee-had fashion mavens. 

Absent fashionable ski masks, the Shia Iranian Mullocrats might consider writing,a a welfare check to purchase tee shirts emblazoned with big red lettering that announces:
"*Our Fighters Race to Reach Death"*



"Palestinian Mujahideen Movement Adds New Brigade to Military Wing; Leader: Our Fighters Race to Reach Death" 

*Palestinian Mujahideen Movement Adds New Brigade to Military Wing; Leader: Our Fighters Race to Reach Death*

On May 4, 2019, Thaqalayn TV (Lebanon/Turkey) aired a report about a new brigade that is being added to the Mujahideen Brigades, which constitute the military wing of the Palestinian Mujahideen Movement, in honor of their 18th anniversary. The report showed a military demonstration titled "Effective Promise" that was performed by the group's militants and that included a simulated raid on a "Zionist post." Asad Abu Shari'a, the Secretary-General of the movement, said that the brigade is being added after a year of training and preparation. He said that the Zionists have failed in their plans to "push people away from resistance" and that the fighters of the movement "race to reach death." Abu Khaled, the Mujahideen Brigades' spokesman, said that the Brigades are "ready and present in all the battlefields" and that they are prepared "for any stupid act perpetrated by this Zionist enemy."


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so you don't know what it said either.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually read it, just don't understand Your compulsion to lie about everything, or the need to play those childish games when all it takes is to read the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was on the table? What was not on the table? The Palestinians are not going to sign off on a one sided ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I address You from now as the official spokesperson,
> or  does that feed the dementia?
> 
> Dude read the link, really what's wrong with You??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Frustrating, isn't it?  This has been going on for the 13 years that I've been on here, and probably long before that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm here 5 years, came to learn the psychology of Jew hatred and understand where that obsession with my country comes from among the people who are not bigots. Just cannot but notice how most of it (99.99%) coincides with banal corruption, not only the obsession with Jews, but the opposite of any integrity, degradation and usually enmity towards other much bigger groups within the home society.
> 
> Has it become more banal, any patterns You see after 13 years?
Click to expand...



It's always the same old BS.  The Jews supposedly came and took this "huge" chunk of land  from the "Palestinians", who were descended from the ancient Canaanites (lol), and thus have been there from time immemorial.  The truth, of course, is that "Palestine" was a wasteland like Mark Twain described after traveling there, and that most Arabs flocked to the area after Zionist Jews had built the cities and drained the swamps, presenting the Middle Eastern Arabs with new job opportunities.

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism (or "anti-Jewish people" to be more precise).


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I would have thought that the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip would have tied out by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The latest ceasefire with the Islamic terrorists seems to have lasted about three days. ...   ...   ...
> 
> The organizers of the protests, known as the March of Return, called on Palestinians to continue the weekly protests near the border, including this Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder why the Media has not pointed out that the tactics employed by the Arab Palestinians of Gaza are a violation of the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.
> 
> Article I • Para 3a • An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death,serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel is a law free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.


----------



## Hollie

More demonstration of the disease that afflicts large swaths of Peaceful Inner Strugglers.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Police arrest Arab arsonist in Jerusalem


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I would have thought that the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip would have tied out by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The latest ceasefire with the Islamic terrorists seems to have lasted about three days. ...   ...   ...
> 
> The organizers of the protests, known as the March of Return, called on Palestinians to continue the weekly protests near the border, including this Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder why the Media has not pointed out that the tactics employed by the Arab Palestinians of Gaza are a violation of the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.
> 
> Article I • Para 3a • An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death,serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is a law free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.
Click to expand...


Just slightly more delusional than your average incoherency


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians have a “thing” for boycotts. 

They’re just so predictable in that these pampered (welfare dependent), souls will refuse to participate in any negotiations that might affect their status as privileged welfare recipients. I suspect that there is a refusal on their part to do anything that could change the status quo that provides UNRWA funded, unending welfare dollars which the international community throws at them allowing the continuation of their Islamic terrorist behavior.
*




Hamas calls for boycott of Bahrain economic conference

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/263655*

Hamas urges PA to boycott economic conference in which US will release first part of peace plan.

Elad Benari, Canada,  25/05/19 01:09
Share





Khalil al-Hayya
Reuters

The Hamas terrorist organization on Friday called on the Palestinian Authority to boycott a US-sponsored economic conference that will be held in Bahrain on June 25.

"Our people are unified to boycott the conference in Manama and act against the Deal of the Century and the projects of liquidizing the Palestinian cause," said Khalil al-Hayya, deputy chief of Hamas, according to the _Xinhua _news agency.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

You say: "The Palestinians have violated nothing;" are you out of your mind_*?*_

Let's throw the BS Flag...



			
				Notarius International 1-2/2009 said:
			
		

> Israelis a special case. During the time of the British Mandate the earlier Ottoman law was overlaid byCommon Law. In the meantime, however, the Common Law regulations continuing in force10were in turn overlaid by new laws influenced by Romano-Germanic models of various origin. Israel thus lies be-tween the Common Law legal family and the legal family of other Romano-Germanic countries. The earlier subsidiary validity of Common Law was express-ly ended by the legislator; on the other hand there is no comprehensive civil code. Israel is therefore aCommon Law country without Common Law or a codified legal system without a code.
> SOURCE:  Notarius International 1-2/2009



The claim that Israel is a "Law Free Zone" is an over exaggeration of a pathetic claimant acting like a drama queen.  Now as you can see, the only Middle Eastern country with a "Basic Law" is Israel and Palestine _(both having an obvious connection)_.  While Israeli Basic Law is an active and working system _(without regard to whether or not you agree with it)_.  However, Palestinian Basic Law is dysfunctional and even the election laws and transition of government do not work in any form.

*◈  Egypt*

Arabic Text of the provisional constitution (2011)
English Translation of the provisional Constitution (2011)
*Egypt Constitution* THE CONSTITUTION OF THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT, 1971 (as Amended to 2007) [PDF]
ARABIC 

Analaysis of 2012 Egyptian Constitution (The Center for Constitutional Transitions at New York University School of Law has published a detailed commentary on the executive branch provisions of the 2012 Constitutions, including, with recommended amendments in light of the current amendment process.)
[PPT] _The Egyptian Legal System_
Tashriat al-Misriyah [Egyptian Legislations]
Egypt's Women Win Equal Rights to Divorce (The New York Times, March 1, 2000)
Law Firms
Egypt Makes It Easier for Women to Divorce Husbands (The New York Times, January 28, 2000)
Egyptian Mothers Fight for Foreign Offspring's Rights (The New York Times, May 14, 2001)
The press in Egyptian legislation. Part III: National newspaper
*◈  Israel*

_Israeli Law_ Guide | LLRX.com
Basic Law of Israel
ICL - _Israel_ - _Basic Law_: Judicature
_Israel_ Lands Administration _Law_ (1960)
Law Firms
*◈  Jordan*

The _Constitution_ of The Hashemite Kingdom of _Jordan_
_The Jordanian National Charter_
World Legal Information Institute - Jordan
_Jordan Legal_ Services - WORLD Law Direct Forums
*◈ Lebanon*

Syrian/Lebanese treaties/agreements
ICL - _Lebanon_ - _Constitution_
LEBANON Constitution
_Lebanon: The Lebanese Constitution promulgated on 23 May 1926_
Lebanese Emigration Research Center (LERC)
The Largest Law Firms
*◈  Palestine*

_Palestinian Basic Law_
_Constitution_ of _Palestine_ (2003) - Wikisource
Kata'ib al-Fida' al-'Arabi / Qarar Ittiham al-Qadi al-Askari al-Suri, 1950 [Arab Martyrdom Brigades, Text of Indictment by Syrian Military Prosecutor, 1950 / Arabic]
_Palestinian-Israeli Conflict_
The Middle East 1916-2001 : A Documentary Record
Where Will They Go? Palestinian refugees say international law guarantees them a right of return to their homelands. But the law has no teeth, and the refugees fear they have no champion / BY JEFFREY GHANNAM ABA Journal, December 2000 ["Permission to reprint and distribute" granted to the Webmaster by the American Bar Association, 12/7/00, c/o Danial [sic] J. Kim, Ed. & Publisher]



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is a law-free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.


*(COMMENT)*

The fact of the matter is, that without violations under the Customary and Humanitarian Law, the Arab Palestinians are in constant violation of Article 1 1938 Counter Terrorism Convention - and acts subject to punishment under Article 68. GCIV:


 ​It is important to note that there are 19 Counterterrorism Conventions.  I believe that the Arab Palestinians have a history in which they violated 12 out of 19 International Counterterrorism Conventions:

1. 1963 Convention on Offences and Certain Other Acts Committed On Board Aircraft

2. 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft 

3. 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation

4. 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation, supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation

5. 2010 Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Relating to International Civil Aviation 

6. 2010 Protocol Supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft

7. 2014 Protocol to Amend the Convention on Offences and Certain Acts Committed on Board Aircraft

8. 1973 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons

9. 1979 International Convention against the Taking of Hostages

12. 1988 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation

13. 2005 Protocol to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation 

17. 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> You say: "The Palestinians have violated nothing;" are you out of your mind_*?*_
> 
> Let's throw the BS Flag...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notarius International 1-2/2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis a special case. During the time of the British Mandate the earlier Ottoman law was overlaid byCommon Law. In the meantime, however, the Common Law regulations continuing in force10were in turn overlaid by new laws influenced by Romano-Germanic models of various origin. Israel thus lies be-tween the Common Law legal family and the legal family of other Romano-Germanic countries. The earlier subsidiary validity of Common Law was express-ly ended by the legislator; on the other hand there is no comprehensive civil code. Israel is therefore aCommon Law country without Common Law or a codified legal system without a code.
> SOURCE:  Notarius International 1-2/2009
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The claim that Israel is a "Law Free Zone" is an over exaggeration of a pathetic claimant acting like a drama queen.  Now as you can see, the only Middle Eastern country with a "Basic Law" is Israel and Palestine _(both having an obvious connection)_.  While Israeli Basic Law is an active and working system _(without regard to whether or not you agree with it)_.  However, Palestinian Basic Law is dysfunctional and even the election laws and transition of government do not work in any form.
> 
> *◈  Egypt*
> 
> Arabic Text of the provisional constitution (2011)
> English Translation of the provisional Constitution (2011)
> *Egypt Constitution* THE CONSTITUTION OF THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT, 1971 (as Amended to 2007) [PDF]
> ARABIC
> 
> Analaysis of 2012 Egyptian Constitution (The Center for Constitutional Transitions at New York University School of Law has published a detailed commentary on the executive branch provisions of the 2012 Constitutions, including, with recommended amendments in light of the current amendment process.)
> [PPT] _The Egyptian Legal System_
> Tashriat al-Misriyah [Egyptian Legislations]
> Egypt's Women Win Equal Rights to Divorce (The New York Times, March 1, 2000)
> Law Firms
> Egypt Makes It Easier for Women to Divorce Husbands (The New York Times, January 28, 2000)
> Egyptian Mothers Fight for Foreign Offspring's Rights (The New York Times, May 14, 2001)
> The press in Egyptian legislation. Part III: National newspaper
> *◈  Israel*
> 
> _Israeli Law_ Guide | LLRX.com
> Basic Law of Israel
> ICL - _Israel_ - _Basic Law_: Judicature
> _Israel_ Lands Administration _Law_ (1960)
> Law Firms
> *◈  Jordan*
> 
> The _Constitution_ of The Hashemite Kingdom of _Jordan_
> _The Jordanian National Charter_
> World Legal Information Institute - Jordan
> _Jordan Legal_ Services - WORLD Law Direct Forums
> *◈ Lebanon*
> 
> Syrian/Lebanese treaties/agreements
> ICL - _Lebanon_ - _Constitution_
> LEBANON Constitution
> _Lebanon: The Lebanese Constitution promulgated on 23 May 1926_
> Lebanese Emigration Research Center (LERC)
> The Largest Law Firms
> *◈  Palestine*
> 
> _Palestinian Basic Law_
> _Constitution_ of _Palestine_ (2003) - Wikisource
> Kata'ib al-Fida' al-'Arabi / Qarar Ittiham al-Qadi al-Askari al-Suri, 1950 [Arab Martyrdom Brigades, Text of Indictment by Syrian Military Prosecutor, 1950 / Arabic]
> _Palestinian-Israeli Conflict_
> The Middle East 1916-2001 : A Documentary Record
> Where Will They Go? Palestinian refugees say international law guarantees them a right of return to their homelands. But the law has no teeth, and the refugees fear they have no champion / BY JEFFREY GHANNAM ABA Journal, December 2000 ["Permission to reprint and distribute" granted to the Webmaster by the American Bar Association, 12/7/00, c/o Danial [sic] J. Kim, Ed. & Publisher]
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a law-free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The fact of the matter is, that without violations under the Customary and Humanitarian Law, the Arab Palestinians are in constant violation of Article 1 1938 Counter Terrorism Convention - and acts subject to punishment under Article 68. GCIV:
> View attachment 262316​It is important to note that there are 19 Counterterrorism Conventions.  I believe that the Arab Palestinians have a history in which they violated 12 out of 19 International Counterterrorism Conventions:
> 
> 1. 1963 Convention on Offences and Certain Other Acts Committed On Board Aircraft
> 
> 2. 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
> 
> 3. 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation
> 
> 4. 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation, supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation
> 
> 5. 2010 Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Relating to International Civil Aviation
> 
> 6. 2010 Protocol Supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
> 
> 7. 2014 Protocol to Amend the Convention on Offences and Certain Acts Committed on Board Aircraft
> 
> 8. 1973 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons
> 
> 9. 1979 International Convention against the Taking of Hostages
> 
> 12. 1988 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation
> 
> 13. 2005 Protocol to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation
> 
> 17. 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice data dump and the implication that they apply.

Could you be more specific?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH! For heaven's sake.  What did your points imply?



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice data dump and the implication that they apply.
> 
> Could you be more specific?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a law-free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Your point was simply _(but very very broad)_ a two-pronged approach.

◈   Israel is a law-free zone.

※  I applied the comparative analysis showing that not only does Israel have a working Basic law; but that the only Arab neighbor to have a basic law, was the Arab Palestinians, but that it was dysfunctional and unworkable.​
◈   The Palestinians have violated nothing.

※   I listed more than two dozen international treaties and laws that are very specific.  Now if you want call-up the Global Terrorism Database and read-out the over *2000 Terrorist incidents* that are all tied to the Palestinians, then go ahead.  Now that would be a "data dump."  Listing the generalized laws that over these 2000+ incidents in just a few lines, you are more than welcome to...​


 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> You say: "The Palestinians have violated nothing;" are you out of your mind_*?*_
> 
> Let's throw the BS Flag...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notarius International 1-2/2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis a special case. During the time of the British Mandate the earlier Ottoman law was overlaid byCommon Law. In the meantime, however, the Common Law regulations continuing in force10were in turn overlaid by new laws influenced by Romano-Germanic models of various origin. Israel thus lies be-tween the Common Law legal family and the legal family of other Romano-Germanic countries. The earlier subsidiary validity of Common Law was express-ly ended by the legislator; on the other hand there is no comprehensive civil code. Israel is therefore aCommon Law country without Common Law or a codified legal system without a code.
> SOURCE:  Notarius International 1-2/2009
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The claim that Israel is a "Law Free Zone" is an over exaggeration of a pathetic claimant acting like a drama queen.  Now as you can see, the only Middle Eastern country with a "Basic Law" is Israel and Palestine _(both having an obvious connection)_.  While Israeli Basic Law is an active and working system _(without regard to whether or not you agree with it)_.  However, Palestinian Basic Law is dysfunctional and even the election laws and transition of government do not work in any form.
> 
> *◈  Egypt*
> 
> Arabic Text of the provisional constitution (2011)
> English Translation of the provisional Constitution (2011)
> *Egypt Constitution* THE CONSTITUTION OF THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT, 1971 (as Amended to 2007) [PDF]
> ARABIC
> 
> Analaysis of 2012 Egyptian Constitution (The Center for Constitutional Transitions at New York University School of Law has published a detailed commentary on the executive branch provisions of the 2012 Constitutions, including, with recommended amendments in light of the current amendment process.)
> [PPT] _The Egyptian Legal System_
> Tashriat al-Misriyah [Egyptian Legislations]
> Egypt's Women Win Equal Rights to Divorce (The New York Times, March 1, 2000)
> Law Firms
> Egypt Makes It Easier for Women to Divorce Husbands (The New York Times, January 28, 2000)
> Egyptian Mothers Fight for Foreign Offspring's Rights (The New York Times, May 14, 2001)
> The press in Egyptian legislation. Part III: National newspaper
> *◈  Israel*
> 
> _Israeli Law_ Guide | LLRX.com
> Basic Law of Israel
> ICL - _Israel_ - _Basic Law_: Judicature
> _Israel_ Lands Administration _Law_ (1960)
> Law Firms
> *◈  Jordan*
> 
> The _Constitution_ of The Hashemite Kingdom of _Jordan_
> _The Jordanian National Charter_
> World Legal Information Institute - Jordan
> _Jordan Legal_ Services - WORLD Law Direct Forums
> *◈ Lebanon*
> 
> Syrian/Lebanese treaties/agreements
> ICL - _Lebanon_ - _Constitution_
> LEBANON Constitution
> _Lebanon: The Lebanese Constitution promulgated on 23 May 1926_
> Lebanese Emigration Research Center (LERC)
> The Largest Law Firms
> *◈  Palestine*
> 
> _Palestinian Basic Law_
> _Constitution_ of _Palestine_ (2003) - Wikisource
> Kata'ib al-Fida' al-'Arabi / Qarar Ittiham al-Qadi al-Askari al-Suri, 1950 [Arab Martyrdom Brigades, Text of Indictment by Syrian Military Prosecutor, 1950 / Arabic]
> _Palestinian-Israeli Conflict_
> The Middle East 1916-2001 : A Documentary Record
> Where Will They Go? Palestinian refugees say international law guarantees them a right of return to their homelands. But the law has no teeth, and the refugees fear they have no champion / BY JEFFREY GHANNAM ABA Journal, December 2000 ["Permission to reprint and distribute" granted to the Webmaster by the American Bar Association, 12/7/00, c/o Danial [sic] J. Kim, Ed. & Publisher]
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a law-free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The fact of the matter is, that without violations under the Customary and Humanitarian Law, the Arab Palestinians are in constant violation of Article 1 1938 Counter Terrorism Convention - and acts subject to punishment under Article 68. GCIV:
> View attachment 262316​It is important to note that there are 19 Counterterrorism Conventions.  I believe that the Arab Palestinians have a history in which they violated 12 out of 19 International Counterterrorism Conventions:
> 
> 1. 1963 Convention on Offences and Certain Other Acts Committed On Board Aircraft
> 
> 2. 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
> 
> 3. 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation
> 
> 4. 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation, supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation
> 
> 5. 2010 Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Relating to International Civil Aviation
> 
> 6. 2010 Protocol Supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
> 
> 7. 2014 Protocol to Amend the Convention on Offences and Certain Acts Committed on Board Aircraft
> 
> 8. 1973 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons
> 
> 9. 1979 International Convention against the Taking of Hostages
> 
> 12. 1988 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation
> 
> 13. 2005 Protocol to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation
> 
> 17. 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice data dump and the implication that they apply.
> 
> Could you be more specific?
Click to expand...


What parts of Arab-Moslem lawlessness and terrorist activities did you have difficulty understanding?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH! For heaven's sake.  What did your points imply?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice data dump and the implication that they apply.
> 
> Could you be more specific?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a law-free zone. The Palestinians have violated nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your point was simply _(but very very broad)_ a two-pronged approach.
> 
> ◈   Israel is a law-free zone.
> 
> ※  I applied the comparative analysis showing that not only does Israel have a working Basic law; but that the only Arab neighbor to have a basic law, was the Arab Palestinians, but that it was dysfunctional and unworkable.​◈   The Palestinians have violated nothing.
> 
> ※   I listed more than two dozen international treaties and laws that are very specific.  Now if you want call-up the Global Terrorism Database and read-out the over *2000 Terrorist incidents* that are all tied to the Palestinians, then go ahead.  Now that would be a "data dump."  Listing the generalized laws that over these 2000+ incidents in just a few lines, you are more than welcome to...​
> View attachment 262327​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still being vague. What is the source of this information? Is it accurate and unbiased? There is nothing specific. It is all assumptions, allegations, and implications.


----------



## Hollie

I really can’t see Israeli allowing these recurring islsmic terrorist attacked to continue without a forceful response.  



*Hamas Renews Arson Terror Against Israel*
Thursday, May 23, 2019 |  Israel Today Staff

Hamas Renews Arson Terror Against Israel





Hamas terror arsonists renewed their destructive attacks on farmers in the south of Israel. Just weeks following a hastily-implemented and unstable ceasefire and without provocation, Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip resumed setting fires to Israeli crops and endangering the lives and homes of the region’s civilian population. 

The terrorists from Gaza started at least 11 fires on Wednesday. “All of the fires were caused by incendiary balloons,” a spokesman for the local fire department said at the scene in the Eshkol and Sdot Negev regions, near the Gaza border.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I really can’t see Israeli allowing these recurring islsmic terrorist attacked to continue without a forceful response.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Renews Arson Terror Against Israel*
> Thursday, May 23, 2019 |  Israel Today Staff
> 
> Hamas Renews Arson Terror Against Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas terror arsonists renewed their destructive attacks on farmers in the south of Israel. Just weeks following a hastily-implemented and unstable ceasefire and without provocation, Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip resumed setting fires to Israeli crops and endangering the lives and homes of the region’s civilian population.
> 
> The terrorists from Gaza started at least 11 fires on Wednesday. “All of the fires were caused by incendiary balloons,” a spokesman for the local fire department said at the scene in the Eshkol and Sdot Negev regions, near the Gaza border.


Nutandyahoo needs to get off his fat ass and solve this problem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really can’t see Israeli allowing these recurring islsmic terrorist attacked to continue without a forceful response.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Renews Arson Terror Against Israel*
> Thursday, May 23, 2019 |  Israel Today Staff
> 
> Hamas Renews Arson Terror Against Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas terror arsonists renewed their destructive attacks on farmers in the south of Israel. Just weeks following a hastily-implemented and unstable ceasefire and without provocation, Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip resumed setting fires to Israeli crops and endangering the lives and homes of the region’s civilian population.
> 
> The terrorists from Gaza started at least 11 fires on Wednesday. “All of the fires were caused by incendiary balloons,” a spokesman for the local fire department said at the scene in the Eshkol and Sdot Negev regions, near the Gaza border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nutandyahoo needs to get off his fat ass and solve this problem.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorism is a global problem not limited to the Arab-Moslem welfare thieves in your invented “country of Pal’Istan. 

How does Israel solve the problem of Islamic ideology?


----------



## Hollie

I thought it was comical that one of the Sunni errand boys serving his masters in Shia Iran was fumbling around making some rather remarkable gaffs. 


We will not do Iran's bidding, Tehran-backed Gaza militants say

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Islamic Jihad militants will not be drawn into a war between Iran and the United States, a leader of the Tehran-backed Palestinian group told NBC News.

“We are not an army and we will not intervene in any international conflict,” senior Islamic Jihad official Khaled al-Batsh said when asked whether the group would fire missiles at Israel if Iran instructed it to.


“Our main mission is how to liberate our land, how to free our people. We are not part of an international conflict,” he added during an interview in Gaza City earlier this week.

Any conflict would be “between two big countries, and I don’t think there will be war between Iran and America,” he said, adding that he did not know how much aid Iran provides his group.




> Any conflict would be “between two big countries, and I don’t think there will be war between Iran and America,” he said, adding that he did not know how much aid Iran provides his group.



Not knowing how much welfare money you receive from the Shia Mullocrats is a rather remarkable comment, al. I have a difficult time believing  the ayatollahs are providing blank checks from the Shia Savings and Loan.  








> “We are not an army and we will not intervene in any international conflict,” senior Islamic Jihad official Khaled al-Batsh said when asked whether the group would fire missiles at Israel if Iran instructed it to



Way wrong answer, “al”. Maybe the Shia Mullocrats haven’t given you “the talk” yet but your Iranian welfare check comes with conditions that you do what you’re told. Shia welfare money doesn’t just fall of the gee-had tree, capeesh?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not falling for that "memory lapse" or the fact that you cannot remember actual historical events.




P F Tinmore said:


> You are still being vague. What is the source of this information? Is it accurate and unbiased? There is nothing specific. It is all assumptions, allegations, and implications.


*(COMMENT)*

I suggest you use the Gdb on Terrorism rather than make me do a data dump.   I'm sure you will find evidence of bombings in public place, the incidents murder in public transportation, aircraft hijackings, aircraft seizures, piracy of a cruise ship, suicide bombings, indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks, acts of coercion and holding peace for ransom, etc, etc, etc, ...

But I'm not going to provide you a list such that you can accuse me of a "data dump."  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Aussie Dave at Israellycool has had a long standing feature showing luxury hotels, restaurants and tourists spots in Gaza (I used to do that as well, but he does a better job!)

Most recently he has shown some private chalets available to rent in Gaza.

Many of them have swimming pools.




Doesn't Gaza have a water crisis?




Don't Israel haters love to claim that Israeli "settlements" steal all the water for their pools, while Palestinians don't get any water?

(full article online)

At least the poor, thirsty Gazans have....swimming pools ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not falling for that "memory lapse" or the fact that you cannot remember actual historical events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still being vague. What is the source of this information? Is it accurate and unbiased? There is nothing specific. It is all assumptions, allegations, and implications.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I suggest you use the Gdb on Terrorism rather than make me do a data dump.   I'm sure you will find evidence of bombings in public place, the incidents murder in public transportation, aircraft hijackings, aircraft seizures, piracy of a cruise ship, suicide bombings, indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks, acts of coercion and holding peace for ransom, etc, etc, etc, ...
> 
> But I'm not going to provide you a list such that you can accuse me of a "data dump."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are taking this terrorist name calling thing completely out of context.


----------



## Ropey

Palestinian political violence













Here they are.


----------



## Ropey

*An interview with a survivor of Palestinian terrorism.*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, what context should I adopt?



P F Tinmore said:


> You are taking this terrorist name calling thing completely out of context.


*(COMMENT)*

• * Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*  •



 ​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Myths and facts on the Nakba


----------



## Sixties Fan

(The Palestinians must remain refugees.  Only in Islam something like this will happen ]

Lebanon: No to naturalization of 'Palestinian refugees'


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what context should I adopt?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are taking this terrorist name calling thing completely out of context.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> • * Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*  •
> 
> View attachment 262503​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have been under attack for a hundred years. It is their right to defend themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Myths and facts on the Nakba


Nobody attacked Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
Click to expand...



Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what context should I adopt?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are taking this terrorist name calling thing completely out of context.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> • * Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*  •
> 
> View attachment 262503​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been under attack for a hundred years. It is their right to defend themselves.
Click to expand...


False. The Arab-Moslem settler colonial project has failed for a hundred years,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
Click to expand...


Except the arab armies.


----------



## Hollie

In Islamic parlance, a _Hudna _is a short term truce that allows the Islamics a period of time to re-arm and re-equip. 



*ISRAEL-HAMAS AGREEMENT ALREADY IN JEOPARDY*

*Israel-Hamas agreement already in jeopardy*

4 minute read.
By LAWRENCE RIFKIN/THE MEDIA LINE






Fire consume fields near Jerusalem, May 23 (photo credit: FIRE AND RESCUE SERVICE)

Israelis renege on extended fishing area after incendiary balloons sent across border from Gaza Strip lead to extensive fires.

Israel has announced that it has walked back its decision to extend the Mediterranean fishing zone for Gaza Strip fishermen after several incendiary balloons were launched toward Israel from the coastal enclave, causing fires made worse by an extreme heatwave.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
Click to expand...

They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.

Look it up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...


Is that why they openly declared Jihad against every Jew an obligation, picking an emblem of pierced Star of David, and started with attacking a Jewish village on the Arab side of the partition, before being pushed back by a British convoy?







Is that why they went to facilitate the Arab pogroms against Jews in Iraq?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come on...



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

How about giving a time frame of reference, and then your source for that same timeframe...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that why they openly declared Jihad against every Jew an obligation, picking an emblem of pierced Star of David, and started with attacking a Jewish village on the Arab side of the partition, before being pushed back by a British convoy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why they went to facilitate the Arab pogroms against Jews in Iraq?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH come on...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How about giving a time frame of reference, and then your source for that same timeframe...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What I posted is true. Why are trying to smokescreen the issue.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that why they openly declared Jihad against every Jew an obligation, picking an emblem of pierced Star of David, and started with attacking a Jewish village on the Arab side of the partition, before being pushed back by a British convoy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why they went to facilitate the Arab pogroms against Jews in Iraq?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


Your claim was that the attack was against Israeli troops,
but there were no Israeli troops present in Yehi'am village in the Arab side of the partition, neither during the pogrom against Jews in Iraq. Neither soldiers were mentioned in the Arab declaration of Jihad against Jews.

Are You implying that they were all troops?
Or that mere Jewish presence was enough an excuse to attack?
What harm did the Jews of Yehi'am cause to the Arab population to excuse the attack?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

How do we know it is true?



P F Tinmore said:


> What I posted is true. Why are trying to smokescreen the issue.


*(COMMENT)*

You did not post a date, place or engaged force involved. 

You need to be specific and not so ambiguous.

It is quite possible that Israeli Forces engaged Arab League forces outside Israel and inside Trustee Territory.  The case of small plots of territory that were overcome by Israelis in hot pursuit of retreating Arab League Forces is possible in a couple of cases where the FEBA had to be extended in order to establish a defendable position.  These areas were accounted for in the agreed upon Armistices arrangements.

Your implication without substance is mere subterfuge to make it confusing to a reader.  It is like saying that the State of Palestine, as recognized in December 2012, actually had any sovereign territory encapsulated by a Palestinian control border.

And if you bring up the nonsense about the entirety of the territory, formerly under the administration of the Mandate for Palestine, as being some sort of Palestinian State, that is even more confusing.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that why they openly declared Jihad against every Jew an obligation, picking an emblem of pierced Star of David, and started with attacking a Jewish village on the Arab side of the partition, before being pushed back by a British convoy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why they went to facilitate the Arab pogroms against Jews in Iraq?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim was that the attack was against Israeli troops,
> but there were no Israeli troops present in Yehi'am village in the Arab side of the partition, neither during the pogrom against Jews in Iraq. Neither soldiers were mentioned in the Arab declaration of Jihad against Jews.
> 
> Are You implying that they were all troops?
> Or that mere Jewish presence was enough an excuse to attack?
> What harm did the Jews of Yehi'am cause to the Arab population to excuse the attack?
Click to expand...

It is Israel who likes to put all Jews in the same pot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> How do we know it is true?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I posted is true. Why are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You did not post a date, place or engaged force involved.
> 
> You need to be specific and not so ambiguous.
> 
> It is quite possible that Israeli Forces engaged Arab League forces outside Israel and inside Trustee Territory.  The case of small plots of territory that were overcome by Israelis in hot pursuit of retreating Arab League Forces is possible in a couple of cases where the FEBA had to be extended in order to establish a defendable position.  These areas were accounted for in the agreed upon Armistices arrangements.
> 
> Your implication without substance is mere subterfuge to make it confusing to a reader.  It is like saying that the State of Palestine, as recognized in December 2012, actually had any sovereign territory encapsulated by a Palestinian control border.
> 
> And if you bring up the nonsense about the entirety of the territory, formerly under the administration of the Mandate for Palestine, as being some sort of Palestinian State, that is even more confusing.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

 Talk about smokescreens.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that why they openly declared Jihad against every Jew an obligation, picking an emblem of pierced Star of David, and started with attacking a Jewish village on the Arab side of the partition, before being pushed back by a British convoy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why they went to facilitate the Arab pogroms against Jews in Iraq?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim was that the attack was against Israeli troops,
> but there were no Israeli troops present in Yehi'am village in the Arab side of the partition, neither during the pogrom against Jews in Iraq. Neither soldiers were mentioned in the Arab declaration of Jihad against Jews.
> 
> Are You implying that they were all troops?
> Or that mere Jewish presence was enough an excuse to attack?
> What harm did the Jews of Yehi'am cause to the Arab population to excuse the attack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who likes to put all Jews in the same pot.
Click to expand...


Really, then what was the Arab excuse for simultaneously attacking their Jewish neighbors,
before reconstitution of Israel and Zionism?

That Jews refused to die out as a minority?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH come on...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myths and facts on the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh PAH-leese.  Who did they attack then?  Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They fought Israeli troops who were in Palestine.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How about giving a time frame of reference, and then your source for that same timeframe...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I posted is true. Why are trying to smokescreen the issue.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


*The never answered question.*

Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Howizit that they are running the West Bank?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question.*
> 
> Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Howizit that they are running the West Bank?
Click to expand...


*The always present conspiracy theory.*

Why is Islamism still so tribal after all these centuries?


----------



## Hollie

What better to celebrate a “holy month” than to teach the Islamic Death Cultist the way of killing. 

Just another example of the mental illness that afflicts the Arabs-Moslems posers, 


PMW Bulletins
Boy taught to shoot at Jews – “the enemy” - in special Ramadan series on PA TV about Arab village 

Boy taught to shoot at Jews – “the enemy” - in special Ramadan series on PA TV about Arab village  - PMW Bulletins

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 


During the current month of Ramadan, official Palestinian Authority TV is broadcasting a series called _Children of the Village Chief_. The series portrays Arab life around the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 and afterwards in a village in what was until the Six-Day War in 1967, the "West Bank" of the Kingdom of Jordan. 




The poster of the series

The first program starts with the so-called Palestinian "Nakba" - the "catastrophe" of the creation of Israel - and continues until the 1980s. In the series, which deals primarily with daily life during this period, attitudes to Israel and Jews are likewise expressed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question.*
> 
> Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Howizit that they are running the West Bank?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The always present conspiracy theory.*
> 
> Why is Islamism still so tribal after all these centuries?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


>


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The question goes unanswered (to your satisfaction) because it involves more than just a short sound bite answer that you want.  There is no one single perspective that will satisfy what you want to hear, and still be both sound and valid.

My experience, from answering other less complex questions you have posed, that if your perspective is not the composite answer you want to hear, you play dumb, not able to understand that the world is not perfect and the politics that actually wins the day, is not always what you believe makes sense.  Thus, no one wants to take the time to thoughtfully answer your question, only to get a non-responsive reply:  "Deflection" _(being the most common, with Israeli Talking Points no far behind)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> The never answered question.
> Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Howizit that they are running the West Bank?


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement, which is by Charter, a Jihadist Organization) won the election 74:132 or approximately 56% of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) seats.  



 ​Having said that, HAMAS and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) are both terrorist organizations.  That makes them very controversial.  Especially when hostile organizations like HAMAS build their premise upon the notion that armed struggle _(Jihad in the Covenant)_ is the only solution and that they are diametrically opposed to the decisions of the Allied Powers _(50 to 100 years ago)_.

Needless to say, there are three positions a nation might take in response to the controversial notion that there is a legitimate right to resist state oppression.  

◈  Capitualtion to Terrorisn 
◈  Non-acknowledgement of Terrorism
◈  Combat Terrorism​
No actual International Law addresses the issue in depth.  However, Customary _(19 Counter-terrorism Conventions in Law)_ and International Humanitarian Laws like the Geneva Convention do criminalize violence in special conditions which adequately describe much of the activities employed by HAMAS, PFLP, Islamic Jihad, etc.

✪  Now I can just hear you say:  Holy Deflection - Smokescreen, etc. _(or my personal favorite:  How does that answer my question)_...​
The reason the answer is complex is that there is more than one vantage point.  The US and Israel fall on the side that it opposes organizations _(whether it is sponsored by the government or not)_ that either engage in activities that are prohibited by Customary and International Humanitarian Law. →  THUS, would prefer not to see a state sponsor of terrorism, like HAMAS, emerge and thrive.  So if HAMAS does not receive the cooperation in the transition of government into their hand → well, so be it.  Countries, like the US, that support the Customary and International Humanitarian Law.

I know it is not the simplified answer you want to hear, but it is a valid viewpoint.  Knowing that you would not appreciate that viewpoint, people in the discussion just choose not to respond and give Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters any credibility.

Any country that would elevate a person like Dalal al-Maghribi, famous for personally killing unarmed men, women, and children, to the status of hero or martyr, is a providing state support to terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The never answered question.*
> 
> Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Howizit that they are running the West Bank?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The always present conspiracy theory.*
> 
> Why is Islamism still so tribal after all these centuries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


I don’t entertain your conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Let children play with matches and the results are predictable.

*Palestinian incendiary kites cause fires in Gaza*


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Let children play with matches and the results are predictable.
> 
> *Palestinian incendiary kites cause fires in Gaza*









 what's up with that [_look_]?





 *+*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Let children play with matches and the results are predictable.
> 
> *Palestinian incendiary kites cause fires in Gaza*



So, what is Nutandyahoo's solution to the problem?

That's right, he doesn't have one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let children play with matches and the results are predictable.
> 
> *Palestinian incendiary kites cause fires in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Nutandyahoo's solution to the problem?
> 
> That's right, he doesn't have one.
Click to expand...


His solution to the Islamic terrorism problem is to protect Israelis from Islamic terrorists.

What is your solution to the problem of global Islamic terrorism?

That’s right, you don’t have one. 

Thanks, for nothing.


----------



## Hollie

member said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let children play with matches and the results are predictable.
> 
> *Palestinian incendiary kites cause fires in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what's up with that [_look_]?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *+*
Click to expand...


I can’t help but get a laugh when Islamic terrorists are the beneficiaries of their own terrorism.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let children play with matches and the results are predictable.
> 
> *Palestinian incendiary kites cause fires in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Nutandyahoo's solution to the problem?
> 
> That's right, he doesn't have one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His solution to the Islamic terrorism problem is to protect Israelis from Islamic terrorists.
> 
> What is your solution to the problem of global Islamic terrorism?
> 
> That’s right, you don’t have one.
> 
> Thanks, for nothing.
Click to expand...


some people don't deserve to live amongst "the civilized."

*solution* ? what about this:










​





​



​




​




​




​



​













​










​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Build Fake ‘Ancient’ Village with the EU’s Help


----------



## Hollie

The following article should be titled “Buffoons and BDS.

It seems another welfare entitled Arab-Moslem is a bit miffed that the German Bundestag has labeled the BDS / Islamic hate group as anti Semitic. 

Who could have guessed?

*
TERRORIST ORGANIZATION HAMAS RUNS BDS CAMPAIGN FROM GAZA*

*https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Terrorist-organization-Hamas-runs-BDS-campaign-from-Gaza-590820*
2 minute read.
By BENJAMIN WEINTHAL

Dr. Basem Naim described himself as “Head of Boycott Campaign & Hamas Official” in a May 17 statement protesting the German Bundestag’s (parliament) resolution recognizing BDS as an antisemitic campaign.

Naim wrote that “We condemn passing this unfair resolution by the German Bundestag that is against the Palestinian people’s right to resist the Israeli occupation, which is the most terrible occupation in history, with all means possible, given that boycott is a peaceful means of resistance against the Israeli occupation.”


----------



## Hollie

Another instance of mental illness becoming a shared disease among Arabs-Moslems.

The usual glorification of mass murder / suicide.
*


All-time Palestinian hero and arch-terrorist *
*honored by PA National Security Forces*
*with chess tournament:* 
*The Abu Jihad Chess Tournament

PA National Security Forces honors arch-terrorist with chess tournament - PMW Bulletins

Abbas inaugurated The Martyr Abu Jihad Faculty Building
for Administration and Military Sciences at Palestinian university 




*

*University festival also honored Abu Jihad*

*Abbas' deputy about arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, responsible for deaths of 125 Israelis:*
*"This leader [Abu Jihad] whom everyone loved is a very important value in this Palestinian people's conscience. He had an incredible amount of qualities that prepared him to be a leader on this path"*

*PA Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Fatah defended decision to paint a portrait of the arch-terrorist on the wall of a school, following criticism from US Envoy Greenblatt*

*Fatah: "First interest of our people is... to express our pride in the sacrifices of the fighters of our people and their great leaders such as the Martyr Khalil al-Wazir (Abu Jihad)."*

*Columnist in official PA daily: "Abu Jihad is the Prince of Martyrs and one of the greatest symbols of our people... there is no one from among those who have made the symbol of victory... who does not known him, who does not honor him, and who does not revere his role... He is present among us like a light that is not extinguished and as one of the most prominent Martyrs."*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## Hollie

As the Sunni islamic terrorist franchises receive more powerful weapons from their Shia masters, at some point, Israel will need to respond with a sweeping military response to eliminate more deadly islamic terrorist attacks.




'HAMAS FIRED MORE THAN ONE ANTI-TANK MISSILE DURING LAST ROUND OF FIGHTING'
By ANNA AHRONHEIM
_




The vehicle that sustained a direct hit from a rocket near Yad Mordechai. (photo credit:" POLICE SPOKESPERSON'S UNIT)
Head of IDF's Southern Command Maj.-Gen. Hertzi Halevy: "We must stop these crowds from breaching the fence because if we fail, the challenge will be much bigger five minutes later."

Hamas fired more than one anti-tank missile towards Israeli civilians during the last round of fighting between the two, the head of the IDF’s Southern Command Maj.-Gen. Hertzi Halevy said on Tuesday.

Only one of the anti-tank missiles struck a target, said Halevy, who was speaking at the third international law conference in Herzliya, adding that the Kornet anti-tank missile which killed Moshe Feder near Kibbutz Erez earlier in May was fired from a multi-story residential building in Beit Hanun in the northern Gaza Strip.

“Any place is okay to launch rockets from Gaza’s civilian homes and school yards – wherever they have human shields – _


'Hamas fired more than one anti-tank missile during last round of fighting'


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Interesting article that speaks to some growing displeasure with the Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises in Sinwar’istan. 

In the event that Israel chooses to devastate the Islamic terrorist franchises when the rocket gee-had starts again, aside from the usual “we urge restraint on both sides” those will just be obligatory platitudes as Israel gets serious about defending itself.   








It is not the international community that is stopping Israel from hitting these terror groups hard. After a year of battles of attrition against Hamas and Islamic Jihad, one could easily say that if and when Israel decides to defeat these organizations, there will not exactly be a deafening chorus of condemnation from the international stage - even by the Arab states.

Who's afraid of the Gaza Strip?




Rocket launches from Gaza towards Israel (Photo: Reuters)


Towards the end of the last deadly round of violence earlier this month, which claimed the lives of four Israelis, condemnation of the massive rocket barrage launched from Gaza into Israel could be heard from several members of the international community.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: ‘Let’s Stab Israelis and Bomb Tel Aviv,’ Croons Palestinian Pop Sensation


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian official meets with Bernie Sanders' 'vehemently anti-Israel' adviser


----------



## Hollie

Angry Mahmoud is on a roll. He was doing his best impression of an angry Mahmoud. Nothing strikes fear into an angry Mahmoud like the idea of his welfare entitlement being affected.



Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas spoke at an event honoring donors to the Mahmoud Abbas Foundation. In his address, which aired on Palestine TV on May 27, 2019, Abbas expressed his hope that the Deal of the Century – which he referred to as the "Deal of Shame" – will "go to Hell.” He also said that the PA will not accept the economic workshop in Bahrain or its results because, according to him, the only way to solve the Palestinian issue is by dealing with the political issues. Abbas said the workshop is nothing more than "illusions" and that the money promised to the Palestinians will never arrive, and he added that when the Palestinian cause is resolved, the Palestinian will not need foreign aid because they will have an independent and modern Palestinian state.


"PA President Mahmoud Abbas: May the Deal of the Century Go to Hell; We Will Not Accept Bahrain Economic Workshop or its results."


----------



## Hollie

There's a little corner of the world where the psychopaths are running the insane asylum.






BRIEF
*Hamas music video celebrates murder of Jews*
A video uploaded by Hamas TV earlier this month shows a masked Palestinian terrorist stabbing a religious Jew, and an anti-tank missile being launched at a bus full of Israeli soldiers.
BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK



Hamas music video celebrates murder of Jews


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Angry Mahmoud is on a roll. He was doing his best impression of an angry Mahmoud. Nothing strikes fear into an angry Mahmoud like the idea of his welfare entitlement being affected.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas spoke at an event honoring donors to the Mahmoud Abbas Foundation. In his address, which aired on Palestine TV on May 27, 2019, Abbas expressed his hope that the Deal of the Century – which he referred to as the "Deal of Shame" – will "go to Hell.” He also said that the PA will not accept the economic workshop in Bahrain or its results because, according to him, the only way to solve the Palestinian issue is by dealing with the political issues. Abbas said the workshop is nothing more than "illusions" and that the money promised to the Palestinians will never arrive, and he added that when the Palestinian cause is resolved, the Palestinian will not need foreign aid because they will have an independent and modern Palestinian state.
> 
> 
> "PA President Mahmoud Abbas: May the Deal of the Century Go to Hell; We Will Not Accept Bahrain Economic Workshop or its results."












 *"honoring donors to the Mahmoud Abbas Foundation."*





​




​




















​





​






*"the Mahmoud Abbas Foundation..."*


----------



## Hollie

More of the cradle to grave program that teaches Arabs-Moslems how they are the forever losers, never good enough and will always fail, 
*



PA school teaches kids to anticipate the end of Israel and the "liberation of Palestine"* 

Palestinian education teaches kids to anticipate the end of Israel - PMW Bulletins






*Teacher: "This is our vision, and we hope to liberate Palestine."*

*PA TV host: "A map [of Palestine] that we hope to achieve soon... I want to thank the school principal who is with us for this good effort to educate our male and female students"*

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Read on our website


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

There's a real comedic element to competing islamic terrorist mini-caliphates poking each other with claims of "incitement". 

A bit like the street wars between the Crips and Bloods 


HAMAS BANS PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY DAILY FOR ‘INCITEMENT’
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_





A Gaza man reads a newspaper, featuring the Israeli election on its front page, in Khan Younis, March 18.. (photo credit:" IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA / REUTERS)
The decision to ban the newspaper was taken by the Hamas-controlled information and interior ministries.

Hamas has decided to ban the distribution of the Palestinian Authority daily newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida in the Gaza Strip because of “incitement and fomentation of discontent” among Palestinians.

The decision to ban the newspaper was taken by the Hamas-controlled information and interior ministries.

A senior Hamas official accused the PA daily of violating some of the laws of the Palestinian press and publications, specifically Article 37 regarding professional standards and objectivity.

The official said that the Hamas authorities recommended that the newspaper be banned from distribution in the Gaza Strip.

Hamas bans Palestinian Authority daily for ‘incitement’








_


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF: Sixth Hezbollah terror tunnel discovered


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian caught smuggling two pipe bombs into West Bank military court


----------



## Hollie

Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.

Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.


Video at the link:

"Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"

_Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."








_
No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.


----------



## Hollie

Some tough talkin' from a chest heaving islamic terrorist.

Ultimately, there's a growing awareness that the islamic gee-had can only be met with a resolve to crush islamic terrorism with a military response.





HAMAS LEADER SINWAR THREATENS TO ATTACK TEL AVIV WITH DOUBLE FORCE

Hamas leader Sinwar threatens to attack Tel Aviv with double force

By URI BOLLAG
_




Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar attends a rally in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip January 7, 2016. (photo credit:" REUTERS)
The Hamas leader flatly rejected any peace initiative coming from the US president, saying that "all transactions aimed at eliminating the Palestinian issue will fail."

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar on Thursday threatened Israel ahead of Jerusalem Day and used the opportunity to reject US President Donald Trump’s peace plan and the Bahrain summit._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.


He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
Click to expand...


Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
Click to expand...


What's wrong with that? You folks are accustomed to being lazy welfare fraudsters.


----------



## Third Party

The Japanese surrendered in WWII and were fanatics till the bomb dropped.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.


Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
Click to expand...


More of your loopy tirades.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.



Arab Palestinians are entitled to self-determination and sovereignty.  As are the Jewish people.  Everything else is to be negotiated.  

Yes, the Arab Palestinians are going to have to surrender their idea that the Jewish people do not have this right.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
Click to expand...


Have you never heard of compromise?  The deals will keep on getting less and less sweeter.  BDS will not do a thing, and time is not on your side, like I said before.  But you can always keep on posting here, which will not help your cause one bit.


----------



## Shusha

Over time, Arab Palestinians appear less and less capable of being ready for self-determination, since the primary requirement for acceptance into the community of nations is the ability to LIVE AT PEACE with one's neighbors.


----------



## José

Have you never heard of compromise? 

*The deals* will keep on getting less and less sweeter.​





A "deal" is something you get from a used car salesman.




​


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,

I thought that this was one of the *A/RES/194 (III)* alternative settlements which the Arab Palestinians stuck their nose up at.

Personally, I don't think that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are owed anything.  I believe the actual refugees that once lived in what is now Sovereign Israeli Territory and were displaced may be owed something.



P F Tinmore said:


> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.


*(COMMENT)*

I think the US is falling into a trap by even suggesting a follow-up to this idea of monetary compensation.  It only trivializes the dignity of the lives lost → made through Arab Palestinian suicides attacks, hijackings, kidnapping and murders, including assaults on various defined public places and/or indiscriminate attacks with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public places.  And:

•  Arab Palestinian attacks solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, which constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, representing seriously damage to the property of the occupying forces or the civil administration.  

•  Arab Palestinians guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​
In considering payments of compensation to the Barabaric Arab Palestinian of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it should include a _quid pro quo_ clause that allows for the Israelis to extraterritorially extradite and prosecute, any Arab Palestinian who incited, supported, facilitated, participated or attempted to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or commission of any hostile acts against the Israelis.

It should also subtract an equivalent amount equal to:

•  Previous payments used as salaries for terrorist prisoners.
•  Previous payments were used as salaries for released terrorist prisoners and payments to the families of dead or injured Palestinian terrorists.


•  Previous payments were used for miscellaneous expenses and benefits for terrorists.​
I think it is a serious mistake to reward the Hostile Arab Palestines for serious acts that constitute criminal behaviours.  By doing so, we just reinforce the idea that "terrorism" works.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you never heard of compromise?  The deals will keep on getting less and less sweeter.  BDS will not do a thing, and time is not on your side, like I said before.  But you can always keep on posting here, which will not help your cause one bit.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,
> 
> I thought that this was one of the *A/RES/194 (III)* alternative settlements which the Arab Palestinians stuck their nose up at.
> 
> Personally, I don't think that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are owed anything.  I believe the actual refugees that once lived in what is now Sovereign Israeli Territory and were displaced may be owed something.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think the US is falling into a trap by even suggesting a follow-up to this idea of monetary compensation.  It only trivializes the dignity of the lives lost → made through Arab Palestinian suicides attacks, hijackings, kidnapping and murders, including assaults on various defined public places and/or indiscriminate attacks with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public places.  And:
> 
> •  Arab Palestinian attacks solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, which constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, representing seriously damage to the property of the occupying forces or the civil administration.
> 
> •  Arab Palestinians guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​
> In considering payments of compensation to the Barabaric Arab Palestinian of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it should include a _quid pro quo_ clause that allows for the Israelis to extraterritorially extradite and prosecute, any Arab Palestinian who incited, supported, facilitated, participated or attempted to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or commission of any hostile acts against the Israelis.
> 
> It should also subtract an equivalent amount equal to:
> 
> •  Previous payments used as salaries for terrorist prisoners.
> •  Previous payments were used as salaries for released terrorist prisoners and payments to the families of dead or injured Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> 
> •  Previous payments were used for miscellaneous expenses and benefits for terrorists.​
> I think it is a serious mistake to reward the Hostile Arab Palestines for serious acts that constitute criminal behaviours.  By doing so, we just reinforce the idea that "terrorism" works.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

We already know that you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. A “Pal’istanian historian” (that explains why he has nothing to do all day), is railing about The Great Satan™️ and an analogy to Germans at Auschwitz.
> 
> Apparently the billions of kuffar welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists was presumed to be a forever entitlement to the Islamic terrorist welfare scammers / ungrateful welfare prostitutes.
> 
> 
> Video at the link:
> 
> "Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta: American Desire to Improve Palestinians' Economic Situation Is Like Auschwitz Guards Promising Two Meals A Day Instead of One"
> 
> _Palestinian Historian Salman Abu Sitta said in a May 28, 2019 interview with Al-Jazeera network (Qatar) that the Americans' desire to improve the Palestinians' economic situation is like when the Germans in Auschwitz would promise to feed their prisoners two meals a day instead of one. He said that the Americans want to keep the Palestinians enslaved and hungry and without a homeland or an identity. Abu Sitta said that even the fact that such a thing is being proposed is humiliating to every Arab, every Palestinian, and every free person, and that it does not make sense for Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan to remain disconnected from Egypt. He added that the Palestinians' enemies must be dreaming because they will not succeed "under any circumstances."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> No matter how much welfare money you throw at these people it’s never enough and they come back like underpaid prostitutes looking for more.
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you never heard of compromise?  The deals will keep on getting less and less sweeter.  BDS will not do a thing, and time is not on your side, like I said before.  But you can always keep on posting here, which will not help your cause one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.
Click to expand...


Yes, I think it's true that at this point, Israel isn't willing to give up much.  After they gave up Southern Lebanon, Gaza and parts of the West Bank, and got suicide bombings and rockets in return, Israelis became hardened and elected Bibi.  Gaza had beautiful greenhouses and synagogues which were destroyed, and 9000 Jews were uprooted from their homes.  Gaza could've become the Singapore of the Middle East.  Under Rabin, Peres, Barak and Olmert, Israel was willing to give up its Jewish heartland--Hebron, Bethlehem, Jericho, Bethel, and Shechem, all of which are located in Judea and Samaria.  But now we have passed that point.  The Palestinians have only themselves to blame.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He must be talking about "the deal of the century" where Trump wants to pay the Palestinians to give up their rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you never heard of compromise?  The deals will keep on getting less and less sweeter.  BDS will not do a thing, and time is not on your side, like I said before.  But you can always keep on posting here, which will not help your cause one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I think it's true that at this point, Israel isn't willing to give up much.  After they gave up Southern Lebanon, Gaza and parts of the West Bank, and got suicide bombings and rockets in return, Israelis became hardened and elected Bibi.  Gaza had beautiful greenhouses and synagogues which were destroyed, and 9000 Jews were uprooted from their homes.  Gaza could've become the Singapore of the Middle East.  Under Rabin, Peres, Barak and Olmert, Israel was willing to give up its Jewish heartland--Hebron, Bethlehem, Jericho, Bethel, and Shechem, all of which are located in Judea and Samaria.  But now we have passed that point.  The Palestinians have only themselves to blame.
Click to expand...

Israel "gave up" what was not theirs.

How nice.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,

Here again, is misinformation.



P F Tinmore said:


> We already know that you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.


*(COMMENT)*

That was never said... NOT AT ALL_*!*_

While the Arab Palestinians are (arguably) fighting against an alien occupation, BUT NOT a racist régimes (A/RES/3379) in the exercise of their right of self-determination, they can still be prosecuted under Article 68.  And they have no rights warranted under the Protocols. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that does seem to be what this new deal is about.  But the Palestinians have rejected very generous deals in the past by Barak and Olmert, where Abbas wrote details of the deals on paper napkins (showing how seriously he takes or considers them), and responded with terror instead.  So politicians like Sharon and Bibi get elected instead, and the cycle keeps repeating itself.  So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.  But the only deal Palestinians will accept is Israel closing down its own country--like that will ever happen.  This is the Palestinian mentality and they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because time is not on their side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now Jared came up with this economic-only and non-political deal, because they are breaking their heads trying to come up with a deal the Palestinians might accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you never heard of compromise?  The deals will keep on getting less and less sweeter.  BDS will not do a thing, and time is not on your side, like I said before.  But you can always keep on posting here, which will not help your cause one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I think it's true that at this point, Israel isn't willing to give up much.  After they gave up Southern Lebanon, Gaza and parts of the West Bank, and got suicide bombings and rockets in return, Israelis became hardened and elected Bibi.  Gaza had beautiful greenhouses and synagogues which were destroyed, and 9000 Jews were uprooted from their homes.  Gaza could've become the Singapore of the Middle East.  Under Rabin, Peres, Barak and Olmert, Israel was willing to give up its Jewish heartland--Hebron, Bethlehem, Jericho, Bethel, and Shechem, all of which are located in Judea and Samaria.  But now we have passed that point.  The Palestinians have only themselves to blame.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel "gave up" what was not theirs.
> 
> How nice.
Click to expand...


And yet, all these cities in the West Bank that have Hebrew names which are thousands of years old don't belong to Hebrew-speaking Israel!  How nice...

Hebron means Friend.  Bethlehem means House of Bread.  Jericho means Moon.  Bethel means House of G-d.  Shechem means Shoulder.  (Shechem is the only city whose name was changed by the Romans to Neapolus.  The Arabs, who can't pronounce the letter P, corrupted the name to Nablus.  Incidentally, the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country Palestine!)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.



If you hold to the zero sum idea that it is ALL Israel or ALL Arab Palestine, then only one side will "have to give up something".  

If you hold to the idea that BOTH peoples have rights to self-determination, then no one is "giving up" anything.  Each is gaining self-determination and sovereignty.  

Its all in how you look at things.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you hold to the zero sum idea that it is ALL Israel or ALL Arab Palestine, then only one side will "have to give up something".
> 
> If you hold to the idea that BOTH peoples have rights to self-determination, then no one is "giving up" anything.  Each is gaining self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Its all in how you look at things.
Click to expand...


And that's the problem right there.  Tinmore believes it is all Arab Palestine and rylah believes it is all Eretz Yisrael, and neither is willing to budge.


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> And that's the problem right there.  Tinmore believes it is all Arab Palestine and rylah believes it is all Eretz Yisrael, and neither is willing to budge.



Exactly.  

Personally, I think that the zero sum game that the Arab Palestinians are trying to play (unsuccessfully) more and more pushes Israel into that same zero sum game.  I think many Israelis are more and more thinking, there is no point in giving up their historical home.


----------



## Hollie

There is some world class sucking-up to the Shia Ayatollah’s going on here. 



*Hamas leader thanks Iran for long-range rockets, threatens Tel Aviv*

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leader-thanks-iran-for-long-range-rockets-threatens-tel-aviv/*

*Yahya Sinwar says that without capabilities provided by Tehran, his terror group would not have been able to hit Beersheba as it did in last round of fighting*
30 May 2019, 10:06 pm  6




Hamas' leader in the Gaza Strip Yahya Sinwar speaks during a press conference for Quds (Jerusalem) day in Gaza City on 30 May 2019. (Photo by MOHAMMED ABED / AFP)
Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar on Thursday thanked Iran for providing his terror group the rockets it used to strike deep into Israel and warned the Jewish state that Tel Aviv would be struck again in response to any offensive against the Gaza Strip.

“Iran provided us with rockets, and we surprised the world when our resistance targeted Beersheba,” Sinwar said in a live TV address, referring to the weekend of violence at the beginning of the month, during which Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired nearly 700 rockets at Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,
> 
> Here again, is misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already know that you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That was never said... NOT AT ALL_*!*_
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians are (arguably) fighting against an alien occupation, BUT NOT a racist régimes (A/RES/3379) in the exercise of their right of self-determination, they can still be prosecuted under Article 68.  And they have no rights warranted under the Protocols.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Article 68 is domestic law when under proper occupation. Israel is still in the invasion stage. Military is not allowed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you hold to the zero sum idea that it is ALL Israel or ALL Arab Palestine, then only one side will "have to give up something".
> 
> If you hold to the idea that BOTH peoples have rights to self-determination, then no one is "giving up" anything.  Each is gaining self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Its all in how you look at things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that's the problem right there.  Tinmore believes it is all Arab Palestine and rylah believes it is all Eretz Yisrael, and neither is willing to budge.
Click to expand...

Read the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,
> 
> Here again, is misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already know that you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That was never said... NOT AT ALL_*!*_
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians are (arguably) fighting against an alien occupation, BUT NOT a racist régimes (A/RES/3379) in the exercise of their right of self-determination, they can still be prosecuted under Article 68.  And they have no rights warranted under the Protocols.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 68 is domestic law when under proper occupation. Israel is still in the invasion stage. Military is not allowed.
Click to expand...

What invasive stage?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There is some world class sucking-up to the Shia Ayatollah’s going on here.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas leader thanks Iran for long-range rockets, threatens Tel Aviv*
> 
> *https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leader-thanks-iran-for-long-range-rockets-threatens-tel-aviv/*
> 
> *Yahya Sinwar says that without capabilities provided by Tehran, his terror group would not have been able to hit Beersheba as it did in last round of fighting*
> 30 May 2019, 10:06 pm  6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas' leader in the Gaza Strip Yahya Sinwar speaks during a press conference for Quds (Jerusalem) day in Gaza City on 30 May 2019. (Photo by MOHAMMED ABED / AFP)
> Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar on Thursday thanked Iran for providing his terror group the rockets it used to strike deep into Israel and warned the Jewish state that Tel Aviv would be struck again in response to any offensive against the Gaza Strip.
> 
> “Iran provided us with rockets, and we surprised the world when our resistance targeted Beersheba,” Sinwar said in a live TV address, referring to the weekend of violence at the beginning of the month, during which Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired nearly 700 rockets at Israel.


OK, so?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is some world class sucking-up to the Shia Ayatollah’s going on here.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas leader thanks Iran for long-range rockets, threatens Tel Aviv*
> 
> *https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leader-thanks-iran-for-long-range-rockets-threatens-tel-aviv/*
> 
> *Yahya Sinwar says that without capabilities provided by Tehran, his terror group would not have been able to hit Beersheba as it did in last round of fighting*
> 30 May 2019, 10:06 pm  6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas' leader in the Gaza Strip Yahya Sinwar speaks during a press conference for Quds (Jerusalem) day in Gaza City on 30 May 2019. (Photo by MOHAMMED ABED / AFP)
> Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar on Thursday thanked Iran for providing his terror group the rockets it used to strike deep into Israel and warned the Jewish state that Tel Aviv would be struck again in response to any offensive against the Gaza Strip.
> 
> “Iran provided us with rockets, and we surprised the world when our resistance targeted Beersheba,” Sinwar said in a live TV address, referring to the weekend of violence at the beginning of the month, during which Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fired nearly 700 rockets at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,
> 
> Here again, is misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already know that you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That was never said... NOT AT ALL_*!*_
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians are (arguably) fighting against an alien occupation, BUT NOT a racist régimes (A/RES/3379) in the exercise of their right of self-determination, they can still be prosecuted under Article 68.  And they have no rights warranted under the Protocols.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 68 is domestic law when under proper occupation. Israel is still in the invasion stage. Military is not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What invasive stage?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You need to read up on the rules of occupation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, , et al,
> 
> Here again, is misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already know that you do not believe that the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That was never said... NOT AT ALL_*!*_
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians are (arguably) fighting against an alien occupation, BUT NOT a racist régimes (A/RES/3379) in the exercise of their right of self-determination, they can still be prosecuted under Article 68.  And they have no rights warranted under the Protocols.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 68 is domestic law when under proper occupation. Israel is still in the invasion stage. Military is not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What invasive stage?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up on the rules of occupation.
Click to expand...


What rules? 

You need to identify some “occupation” you rattle on about but fail to identify.


----------



## Hollie

Oh my, This is concerning. 

Voting is a gateway activity to converting to Judaism. 
*


27% of Israeli Arabs voted for Zionist parties *
*in recent elections*

27% of Israeli Arabs voted for Zionist parties in recent elections  - PMW Bulletins

*PA slander: Israel is an "apartheid state";*
*but Israeli Arabs experience real democracy*


----------



## Mindful

*Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support*



Ismail Haniyeh and Yahya Sinwar gesture to supporters during a rally marking the 30th anniversary of Hamas’ founding, in Gaza City Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.

The leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip publicly admitted on Thursday that the terrorist group was getting military and financial backing from Iran.

“We have developed our capabilities,” the Israeli news site _Mako_quoted Yahya Sinwar saying at a Hamas rally in Gaza, “and we have received financial and military support from Iran.”

“We will only continue to improve our capabilities,” he pledged, and admitted, “If Iran didn’t support us in recent years, we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved.”

Sinwar stated that the Grad rockets fired at Israel during the latest round of fighting in early May were of “Iranian manufacture.”

The terrorist leader also slammed US President Donald Trump’s yet-to-be-unveiled Israeli-Palestinian peace plan, claiming, “Trump wants to sell Jerusalem to the Zionists without paying a price.”

“I call on the leaders of the Arab states — if you want to keep your seats, you have no choice but to choose our option, the option of the liberation of Palestine,” Sinwar added.


Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support


----------



## Hollie

More of the desperation that is gripping the Arabs-Moslems. 
*


PA cartoon: Buying Israeli foods 
arms Israeli soldiers* 

PA cartoon: Buying Israeli foods arms Israeli soldiers - PMW Bulletins

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik





A poster and two cartoons call on Palestinians to boycott Israeli food products that are available in Palestinian stores.

Instead of the PA encouraging normal relations between Palestinians and Israelis, the PA does not hesitate to call on Palestinian to bring hardship upon themselves as part of the PA's anti-Israel hate campaigns. Recently, Palestinian Media Watch reported that the PA stopped permitting Palestinians to use Israeli hospitals for treatment the PA hospitals cannot supply, even though they are only a short drive away, and instead is forcing sick Palestinians to travel to Egypt and Jordan for hospitalization. Calling on Palestinians to adjust their normal food purchases because of the PA's political agenda is another example of the PA demanding hardship of their own population for the PA's political agenda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support*
> 
> 
> 
> Ismail Haniyeh and Yahya Sinwar gesture to supporters during a rally marking the 30th anniversary of Hamas’ founding, in Gaza City Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> The leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip publicly admitted on Thursday that the terrorist group was getting military and financial backing from Iran.
> 
> “We have developed our capabilities,” the Israeli news site _Mako_quoted Yahya Sinwar saying at a Hamas rally in Gaza, “and we have received financial and military support from Iran.”
> 
> “We will only continue to improve our capabilities,” he pledged, and admitted, “If Iran didn’t support us in recent years, we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved.”
> 
> Sinwar stated that the Grad rockets fired at Israel during the latest round of fighting in early May were of “Iranian manufacture.”
> 
> The terrorist leader also slammed US President Donald Trump’s yet-to-be-unveiled Israeli-Palestinian peace plan, claiming, “Trump wants to sell Jerusalem to the Zionists without paying a price.”
> 
> “I call on the leaders of the Arab states — if you want to keep your seats, you have no choice but to choose our option, the option of the liberation of Palestine,” Sinwar added.
> 
> 
> Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support


So? And the US gives military and financial support to Israel.

Do you have a point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support*
> 
> 
> 
> Ismail Haniyeh and Yahya Sinwar gesture to supporters during a rally marking the 30th anniversary of Hamas’ founding, in Gaza City Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> The leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip publicly admitted on Thursday that the terrorist group was getting military and financial backing from Iran.
> 
> “We have developed our capabilities,” the Israeli news site _Mako_quoted Yahya Sinwar saying at a Hamas rally in Gaza, “and we have received financial and military support from Iran.”
> 
> “We will only continue to improve our capabilities,” he pledged, and admitted, “If Iran didn’t support us in recent years, we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved.”
> 
> Sinwar stated that the Grad rockets fired at Israel during the latest round of fighting in early May were of “Iranian manufacture.”
> 
> The terrorist leader also slammed US President Donald Trump’s yet-to-be-unveiled Israeli-Palestinian peace plan, claiming, “Trump wants to sell Jerusalem to the Zionists without paying a price.”
> 
> “I call on the leaders of the Arab states — if you want to keep your seats, you have no choice but to choose our option, the option of the liberation of Palestine,” Sinwar added.
> 
> 
> Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support
> 
> 
> 
> So? And the US gives military and financial support to Israel.
> 
> Do you have a point?
Click to expand...


Shia Crescent.

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

Bahrain conference has a real focus on Shia Iran, greater Arab ties with Israel. 

Why is Bahrain Hosting the Mideast Peace Conference?

The road to curbing Iranian ambitions, according to Bahrain, passes through Tel Aviv. Rabbi Marc Schneier, King Hamad’s interfaith adviser, quoted the king as saying in 2016 that “Our only hope for a strong, moderate Arab voice in the Gulf is a strong Israel.” In February of this year, during the Warsaw Conference, Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.



Manama’s willingness to partake in the US-sponsored conference also serves domestic and regional interests that center on countering Iranian ambitions in the Gulf and across the Middle East; and it is this specific geopolitical motive that provides further context to Israeli officials’ invitation to the summit. Recent Bahraini overtures to Israel, which follow unofficial contacts dating back to the mid-90s, include statements of support for Israel’s military actions in Syria against Shia strongholds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Bahrain conference has a real focus on Shia Iran, greater Arab ties with Israel.
> 
> Why is Bahrain Hosting the Mideast Peace Conference?
> 
> The road to curbing Iranian ambitions, according to Bahrain, passes through Tel Aviv. Rabbi Marc Schneier, King Hamad’s interfaith adviser, quoted the king as saying in 2016 that “Our only hope for a strong, moderate Arab voice in the Gulf is a strong Israel.” In February of this year, during the Warsaw Conference, Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Manama’s willingness to partake in the US-sponsored conference also serves domestic and regional interests that center on countering Iranian ambitions in the Gulf and across the Middle East; and it is this specific geopolitical motive that provides further context to Israeli officials’ invitation to the summit. Recent Bahraini overtures to Israel, which follow unofficial contacts dating back to the mid-90s, include statements of support for Israel’s military actions in Syria against Shia strongholds.





Hollie said:


> Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.


Indeed, that is why they are faking this threat from Iran.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain conference has a real focus on Shia Iran, greater Arab ties with Israel.
> 
> Why is Bahrain Hosting the Mideast Peace Conference?
> 
> The road to curbing Iranian ambitions, according to Bahrain, passes through Tel Aviv. Rabbi Marc Schneier, King Hamad’s interfaith adviser, quoted the king as saying in 2016 that “Our only hope for a strong, moderate Arab voice in the Gulf is a strong Israel.” In February of this year, during the Warsaw Conference, Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Manama’s willingness to partake in the US-sponsored conference also serves domestic and regional interests that center on countering Iranian ambitions in the Gulf and across the Middle East; and it is this specific geopolitical motive that provides further context to Israeli officials’ invitation to the summit. Recent Bahraini overtures to Israel, which follow unofficial contacts dating back to the mid-90s, include statements of support for Israel’s military actions in Syria against Shia strongholds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that is why they are faking this threat from Iran.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you’re off chasing another conspiracy theory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain conference has a real focus on Shia Iran, greater Arab ties with Israel.
> 
> Why is Bahrain Hosting the Mideast Peace Conference?
> 
> The road to curbing Iranian ambitions, according to Bahrain, passes through Tel Aviv. Rabbi Marc Schneier, King Hamad’s interfaith adviser, quoted the king as saying in 2016 that “Our only hope for a strong, moderate Arab voice in the Gulf is a strong Israel.” In February of this year, during the Warsaw Conference, Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Manama’s willingness to partake in the US-sponsored conference also serves domestic and regional interests that center on countering Iranian ambitions in the Gulf and across the Middle East; and it is this specific geopolitical motive that provides further context to Israeli officials’ invitation to the summit. Recent Bahraini overtures to Israel, which follow unofficial contacts dating back to the mid-90s, include statements of support for Israel’s military actions in Syria against Shia strongholds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that is why they are faking this threat from Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re off chasing another conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

The government shovels shit and you people eat it with a spoon.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain conference has a real focus on Shia Iran, greater Arab ties with Israel.
> 
> Why is Bahrain Hosting the Mideast Peace Conference?
> 
> The road to curbing Iranian ambitions, according to Bahrain, passes through Tel Aviv. Rabbi Marc Schneier, King Hamad’s interfaith adviser, quoted the king as saying in 2016 that “Our only hope for a strong, moderate Arab voice in the Gulf is a strong Israel.” In February of this year, during the Warsaw Conference, Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Manama’s willingness to partake in the US-sponsored conference also serves domestic and regional interests that center on countering Iranian ambitions in the Gulf and across the Middle East; and it is this specific geopolitical motive that provides further context to Israeli officials’ invitation to the summit. Recent Bahraini overtures to Israel, which follow unofficial contacts dating back to the mid-90s, include statements of support for Israel’s military actions in Syria against Shia strongholds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bahrain’s Foreign Minister Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa stated that confronting “the Iranian threat” was more important than dealing with the Israel-Palestine issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that is why they are faking this threat from Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you’re off chasing another conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government shovels shit and you people eat it with a spoon.
Click to expand...


Indeed, another of your compelling arguments.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support*
> 
> 
> 
> Ismail Haniyeh and Yahya Sinwar gesture to supporters during a rally marking the 30th anniversary of Hamas’ founding, in Gaza City Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> The leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip publicly admitted on Thursday that the terrorist group was getting military and financial backing from Iran.
> 
> “We have developed our capabilities,” the Israeli news site _Mako_quoted Yahya Sinwar saying at a Hamas rally in Gaza, “and we have received financial and military support from Iran.”
> 
> “We will only continue to improve our capabilities,” he pledged, and admitted, “If Iran didn’t support us in recent years, we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved.”
> 
> Sinwar stated that the Grad rockets fired at Israel during the latest round of fighting in early May were of “Iranian manufacture.”
> 
> The terrorist leader also slammed US President Donald Trump’s yet-to-be-unveiled Israeli-Palestinian peace plan, claiming, “Trump wants to sell Jerusalem to the Zionists without paying a price.”
> 
> “I call on the leaders of the Arab states — if you want to keep your seats, you have no choice but to choose our option, the option of the liberation of Palestine,” Sinwar added.
> 
> 
> Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support
> 
> 
> 
> So? And the US gives military and financial support to Israel.
> 
> Do you have a point?
Click to expand...



Lots  of them.


BTW, the US doesn't 'give' anything to Israel.


----------



## Hollie

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/why-is-bahrain-hosting-the-mideast-peace-conference

Following a long period of anticipation and repeated delays, US officials announced earlier this month that they will hold an economic workshop in Bahrain in late June as the first step in the administration’s road map for peace between Israel and Palestine. Bahrain’s hosting of the summit is a clear reflection of the trilateral partnership between Israel, the United States, and the Gulf that has been promoted by the Trump administration in the region. The event’s location and regional participation—in spite of the announced Palestinian boycott—moreover demonstrate that contemporary domestic and international geopolitical concerns outweigh a cursory commitment to the Palestinian cause.



_"Bahrain’s hosting of the summit is a clear reflection of the trilateral partnership between Israel, the United States, and the Gulf that has been promoted by the Trump administration in the region."_
_



_
Yep. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians have aligned with the Shia heretics. From the Sunni Moslem perspective, that is an unforgivable sin.


----------



## Hollie

I always find it ironic that anyone would be surprised by "human rights abuses" with an islamic terrorist franchise running a corrupt mini-caliphate.




Hamas must end brutal crackdown against protesters in Gaza


----------



## Hollie

There's a certain "everything's right with the world" justice in islamic terrorists elected to office being the greatest oppressors of islamic terrorists.   

Gaza: Hamas must end brutal crackdown against protesters and rights defenders. 

Human Rights NGO Reports on Hamas’ Abuses in Gaza Strip


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> I always find it ironic that anyone would be surprised by "human rights abuses" with an islamic terrorist franchise running a corrupt mini-caliphate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas must end brutal crackdown against protesters in Gaza








​






....leaders since 2004…….terrorists sure know how to “hold” onto their official government posts.” 





According to the internet, they were supposed to have 

 another election in 2014  ?








_Wha-happened_?



pinkmore....don't you think palestinians would be better off without hamass as their ...government?........

how do you...

 _oust_ this mentality from the "areas" so maybe one day there can be.....peace ??









* 
This article was originally published in TRT Arabic on 27 February 2019*
_(sorry, if it’s a repeat)…._





Will the Palestinian elections ever be held?



*Will the Palestinian elections ever be held?*


It doesn’t seem that the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) will be held in May or any time soon thereafter, as called for by the Constitutional Court of the Palestinian Authority (PA) in Ramallah. This is the case even though they were approved and welcomed by Fatah, the leadership of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) and the PA.  It looks as if Fatah will be pragmatic in dealing with that part of the court’s decision that it favours, which is to dissolve the PLC. As far as elections within the next six months are concerned, though, it seems that Fatah isn’t all that keen on pushing the issue, despite the objections of the other Palestinian factions to the Constitutional Court itself, its powers and its decisions.



 
The fact that the call for elections was made in the context of the conflict between Fatah and the PA on the one hand, and Fatah and Hamas on the other, in an environment that exacerbates Palestine’s domestic issues, suggests that the people will not be going to the polls any time soon. The call for them to be held was, in effect, not to solve problems, but simply to provide a smokescreen for the conflict of wills and attempts to delegitimise Hamas and limit its capabilities. Essentially, the Constitutional Court decision was meant to add insult to injury rather than offer a way out of the crisis.



 
How can Fatah talk about an “election celebration” while ignoring its 2011 Reconciliation Agreement with the other factions and imposing a new pathway that will shatter the domestic scenario? If it is serious about holding elections, it must first establish a suitably healthy environment in which they can be held, rather than increase tension and destroy the kind of confidence-building measures that are essential for a transparent, democratic election process. Fatah has continued with its crisis-instigating rhetoric against Hamas rather than finding common ground, possibly deliberately, because if Hamas boycotts the elections it would lose a great deal of its credibility but Fatah could win. Furthermore, the electoral participation of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip is basically dependent on Hamas’s approval and cooperation.



 
In January, Fatah official Hussein Al-Shaikh said on TV that there will only be a unity government with Hamas before an end to the schism “over our dead bodies”. Fatah, he added, would not allow the rule of the “obscurants”. Last month, he threatened to take measures that would affect Hamas and its future. Hamas, meanwhile, escalated its criticism of Fatah and the PA; its deputies voted to end Abbas’s mandate and launched a campaign to delegitimise him and his position.



 
It is also obvious that Fatah needs national leverage to hold elections, at least at the major faction level. That way, it will eventually be able to besiege Hamas, forcing the Islamic Resistance Movement either to acquiesce to the conditions set down by Fatah for the political process or leave the political game altogether. However, what the Fatah leadership has done has increased Palestinian opposition, whereby all of the major factions have rejected the Constitutional Court’s decision to dissolve the PLC, and have refused to take the election issue seriously. In fact, they blame the Fatah and PA leadership for escalating the crisis. Furthermore, they have refused to participate in the suggested government, which includes PLO factions, to manage the PA and the elections. Consequently, Fatah is more isolated in the Palestinian arena, while the policies of the political factions and Hamas have converged further. This means that Fatah and the PA leadership have failed to find the minimum required to legitimise the elections or to isolate Hamas.



 
It appears that neither the Fatah leadership nor the PA were really interested in including the other main Palestinian factions which are part of the PLO (Hamas is not a member), as they did not make any interesting offer to overcome the political crisis, the PA’s dilemmas or the Oslo entitlements. Instead, there has been a continuation of the arrogant political speeches, even when talking about a government that includes PLO factions, which maintained their opposition to what is happening.



 
The crisis with the Palestinian factions was why the inter-factional talks in Moscow last month failed even to issue a final statement. This led Fatah to launch a media campaign against Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and decide to boycott the latter, taking Palestinian politics another step backwards.

 
Moreover, Fatah and the PA planned the elections so that they would only be held only for the PLC, with the intention solely to end the parliamentary majority of Hamas and marginalise the movement; the plan is within the context of political rivalry rather than it being a means to reform the Palestinian political system. The 2011 Reconciliation Agreement, however, called for a commitment to hold simultaneous elections for the PLC, the Palestinian National Council (PNC) and the Palestinian Presidency. All of the factions agreed to this. Hence, with Fatah trying to implement only what suits it, this should be perceived as a “repositioning” of its leadership, while the political system remains in a miserable state, something to be rejected by both the factions and the general public.



 
Indeed, opinion polls do not encourage Fatah and the PA to hold genuine elections in which Hamas also participates. According to the latest poll conducted by the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research (an independent centre in Ramallah), the popularity of both Fatah and Hamas are almost the same, although Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would most likely win a presidential race, with a predicted 7 per cent lead over Mahmoud Abbas. The poll’s main findings included the following: 64 per cent want Abbas to resign; 66 per cent are dissatisfied with the performance of his government; 80 per cent believe that the PA institutions are corrupt; 77 per cent demand the removal of the PA sanctions imposed on the Gaza Strip; 61 per cent oppose Abbas’s insistence that Hamas must hand over control over the Gaza Strip fully to the reconciliation government, including the ministries, the security sector, and arms; and twice as many people blame Abbas and the PA for the worsening conditions in Gaza as those who blame Hamas.



 
Unless Fatah and the PA can guarantee their own victory in the Palestinian elections, therefore, there is no incentive for them to hold them. Logically, if Fatah doesn’t mind dealing with a Hamas-led PLC, why does it continue to disrupt the institution and its current Hamas majority, which it has done for the past 12 years? And why did it dissolve it instead of implementing the term of the reconciliation agreement governing the activation of the Council?



 
Israel, of course, has the capability to disrupt the Palestinian elections, especially in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem. It has an extreme right-wing agenda to continue building illegal settlements and impose its Judaisation programme, and it has no intention whatsoever of allowing the Palestinian political house to be put in order. Continuing its longstanding policy of thwarting Hamas, pursuing its members and destroying its infrastructure, Israel holds what is in effect a veto over any Hamas victory and renewal of its electoral legitimacy. It even seeks to subdue Fatah and other non-resistance factions and ensure that the PA stays a functional entity that lacks any possibility of becoming an independent sovereign state. What’s more, there is no pressure on Israel to allow the Palestinians to build national institutions that express their will, which is another indication that it will be difficult to hold Palestinian elections in the near future.




Hamas calls for government to prepare for elections

 
Similarly, Washington’s policies align with Israel’s. The US wants the Palestinians to toe the line with the “deal of the century”, and give Jerusalem to the Israelis, waive the refugees’ right of return and establish a non-sovereign state on fragmented parts of the 1967-occupied territories. Hence, any arrangement that would re-energise the Palestinian national project, or would include armed resistance factions and Islamic movements in the PLO and the PA, are always going to be rejected and disrupted by the US.



 
Finally, the Arab milieu is weak and in tatters, and many states have policies which are aligned with the US vision, including normalisation of relations with Israel. Arab states are either hostile or opposed to resistance to the Israeli occupation, and “political Islam” is off the regimes’ agenda. This all constitutes another obstacle in the way of putting the Palestinian political house in order in such a way that would include all factions and constituencies according to their real political weight. Arab “legitimacy” continues to be bestowed on the moribund peace process, but it does not allow the resistance movements to reorganise the PLO or the PA on a new axis that leaves the Oslo Accords behind.



 
Based on the above, I think it is fair to say that we can rule out the holding of Palestinian elections at least for the rest of this year. Nevertheless, we can be sure that there is a genuine willingness out there to deal with the elections as an effective tool to put Palestinian politics on solid foundations, and not use them as a cover to exclude and marginalise any or all of the factions, nor as a tool to prolong the worn-out Palestinian political system.

 
.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support*
> 
> 
> 
> Ismail Haniyeh and Yahya Sinwar gesture to supporters during a rally marking the 30th anniversary of Hamas’ founding, in Gaza City Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> The leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip publicly admitted on Thursday that the terrorist group was getting military and financial backing from Iran.
> 
> “We have developed our capabilities,” the Israeli news site _Mako_quoted Yahya Sinwar saying at a Hamas rally in Gaza, “and we have received financial and military support from Iran.”
> 
> “We will only continue to improve our capabilities,” he pledged, and admitted, “If Iran didn’t support us in recent years, we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved.”
> 
> Sinwar stated that the Grad rockets fired at Israel during the latest round of fighting in early May were of “Iranian manufacture.”
> 
> The terrorist leader also slammed US President Donald Trump’s yet-to-be-unveiled Israeli-Palestinian peace plan, claiming, “Trump wants to sell Jerusalem to the Zionists without paying a price.”
> 
> “I call on the leaders of the Arab states — if you want to keep your seats, you have no choice but to choose our option, the option of the liberation of Palestine,” Sinwar added.
> 
> 
> Hamas Leader Admits Group Receiving Iranian Military and Financial Support
> 
> 
> 
> So? And the US gives military and financial support to Israel.
> 
> Do you have a point?
Click to expand...


That's how fast You go from complete denial to what-about-ism.
How is aligning with everyone's enemy in the region a smart move?

Only if You're suicidal...which correctly describes the Jihadis in Gaza.


----------



## rylah

How many Gazans will Iran be willing to spare?
Of course not the "smart" ones with the jets...


----------



## Hollie

Money for weapons really does fall off the Shia Iranian gee-had tree. 

With Hamas unable to control the competing gee-had franchise in Gaza, any acts of war directed at Israel by Islamic Jihad will have a direct impact (the explosive kind), on Hamas. 



*Palestinian Islamic Jihad: We can launch more than 1,000 rockets at Israel a day for months*
i24NEWS

i24NEWS

Latest Revision may 31, 2019, 6:45 AM
Roberto Schmidt (AFP)





Islamic Jihad warned on Thursday that it has the capability to launch more than 1,000 rockets a day into Israel for months".


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of Sinwar’istan is ordering people in Bahrain to declare a general strike.

The Emir has spoken!

Hamas leader threatens Tel Aviv, urges Bahranis to strike over US summit
Yahya Sinwar says the terror groups will ‘pulverize’ the center of Israel in the next round of cross-border fighting; orders residents of the Gulf state, due to host conference where parts of Trump’s peace plan will be unveiled, to declare general strike





Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar (Photo: AP)



The Emir is looking rather Hitler’esque in his tirades.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every deal offered so far was for the Palestinians to surrender and give up their rights. That is what Israel calls a great offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you never heard of compromise?  The deals will keep on getting less and less sweeter.  BDS will not do a thing, and time is not on your side, like I said before.  But you can always keep on posting here, which will not help your cause one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have given up a lot. Israel has given up nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I think it's true that at this point, Israel isn't willing to give up much.  After they gave up Southern Lebanon, Gaza and parts of the West Bank, and got suicide bombings and rockets in return, Israelis became hardened and elected Bibi.  Gaza had beautiful greenhouses and synagogues which were destroyed, and 9000 Jews were uprooted from their homes.  Gaza could've become the Singapore of the Middle East.  Under Rabin, Peres, Barak and Olmert, Israel was willing to give up its Jewish heartland--Hebron, Bethlehem, Jericho, Bethel, and Shechem, all of which are located in Judea and Samaria.  But now we have passed that point.  The Palestinians have only themselves to blame.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel "gave up" what was not theirs.
> 
> How nice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, all these cities in the West Bank that have Hebrew names which are thousands of years old don't belong to Hebrew-speaking Israel!  How nice...
> 
> Hebron means Friend.  Bethlehem means House of Bread.  Jericho means Moon.  Bethel means House of G-d.  Shechem means Shoulder.  (Shechem is the only city whose name was changed by the Romans to Neapolus.  The Arabs, who can't pronounce the letter P, corrupted the name to Nablus.  Incidentally, the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country Palestine!)
Click to expand...


Shechem also means Portion.


----------



## Hollie

“Some Gazans starting to blame Hamas..”

Some Gazans can keep quiet and sacrifice themselves for the gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult, the next generation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The UN is doing something shocking to the Palestinian Arab refugees


----------



## Hollie

Is UNRWA is scam?

Is Islamism the _Religion of Peace_™️


----------



## Hollie

Another day and another reason for Arabs-Moslems to riot.

Another day in the angry, dark world that is the Arab-Moslem psyche. 
*



ARABS RIOT AS JEWS ARE ALLOWED TO ENTER TEMPLE MOUNT ON JERUSALEM DAY*

Arabs riot as Jews are allowed to enter Temple Mount on Jerusalem Day








Chairs and objects thrown on the ground after Arabs rioted the decision to allow Jews to enter the Temple Mount on Jerusalem Day (photo credit: POLICE SPOKESPERSON'S UNIT)

As the police attempted to enter the place, Arab worshipers began throwing stones, chairs and other objects at the forces.
Following the report that Jews will be allowed to enter the Temple Mount for Jerusalem Day, riots broke out on the Temple Mount on Sunday, according to the Police Spokesperson's Unit.

The commander of the Jerusalem district, Maj.-Gen. Doron Yedid, ordered the police to enter the Temple Mount and take care of the rioters.


----------



## Hollie

Maybe the thing to do is placate the Arab-Moslems with a nod and a smile and explain, “yes Mr. Emir of Sinwar’istan, you now have a state”.

When the first gee-had rocket attack emerges from the “ Caliphate of Sinwar’istan”, it’s time for the IDF to respond on a war footing and stop the nonsense. 
*


INSIGHT-Palestinians say U.S. 'deal of the century' will finish off their state

INSIGHT-Palestinians say U.S. 'deal of the century' will finish off their state
*
BEIRUT, May 31 (Reuters) - The U.S. blueprint to end the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, still in draft form after almost two years, is seen by Palestinians, and by some Arab officials and politicians, as a plan to finish off the Palestinian cause.

The initiative, driven by Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son-in-law and White House adviser, was billed by the U.S. president as the "deal of the century".

While its precise outlines have yet to be revealed, Palestinian and Arab sources who have been briefed on the draft plan say Kushner has jettisoned the two-state solution - the long-standing U.S. and international formula that envisages an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

In typical fashion, the Islamic terrorists in the Fatah franchise are seeking out a confrontation. 
*




Fatah calls for violence in order to prevent the Jerusalem Day Parade to the Western Wall*

Fatah calls for violence in order to prevent the Jerusalem Day Parade to the Western Wall - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah calls to come to the Damascus Gate of the Old City at 5:00 p.m., the exact same time at which the traditional flag parade will pass the spot on its way to the Western Wall*

By Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirschby
June 2, 2019

Palestinian Media Watch turned to the Israeli police to warn about violence that the Fatah Movement has called for today, Jerusalem Day. Yesterday Fatah posted on its official Facebook page a call to Palestinians to *"come... to the Damascus Gate at 5:00 p.m. in order to emphasize the Arabness and Islamicness of Jerusalem to the herds of settlers who want to desecrate the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the streets and alleys of Jerusalem."*

5:00 p.m. this afternoon is the time that the traditional Jerusalem Day Parade is scheduled to pass that location on its way to the Western Wall. The purpose of Fatah's call was to have Palestinians violently disrupt the parade.

In the notice published on the Fatah Facebook page, three events in which Palestinians used violence to achieve political gain were stressed as precedents for today's call to Arabs: 

"As the [Palestinian] public has succeeded in thwarting the Zionist plan of imposing a division of [prayer] times and the invasions during the Jewish holidays in September 2015; and the cancellation of the decision to place metal detectors at the Al-Aqsa Mosque gates during the Lion's Gate protest; and the opening of a place of worship at the Gate of Mercy by force after a Zionist closure that had lasted 16 years."


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> In typical fashion, the Islamic terrorists in the Fatah franchise are seeking out a confrontation.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah calls for violence in order to prevent the Jerusalem Day Parade to the Western Wall*
> 
> Fatah calls for violence in order to prevent the Jerusalem Day Parade to the Western Wall - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah calls to come to the Damascus Gate of the Old City at 5:00 p.m., the exact same time at which the traditional flag parade will pass the spot on its way to the Western Wall*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirschby
> June 2, 2019
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch turned to the Israeli police to warn about violence that the Fatah Movement has called for today, Jerusalem Day. Yesterday Fatah posted on its official Facebook page a call to Palestinians to *"come... to the Damascus Gate at 5:00 p.m. in order to emphasize the Arabness and Islamicness of Jerusalem to the herds of settlers who want to desecrate the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the streets and alleys of Jerusalem."*
> 
> 5:00 p.m. this afternoon is the time that the traditional Jerusalem Day Parade is scheduled to pass that location on its way to the Western Wall. The purpose of Fatah's call was to have Palestinians violently disrupt the parade.
> 
> In the notice published on the Fatah Facebook page, three events in which Palestinians used violence to achieve political gain were stressed as precedents for today's call to Arabs:
> 
> "As the [Palestinian] public has succeeded in thwarting the Zionist plan of imposing a division of [prayer] times and the invasions during the Jewish holidays in September 2015; and the cancellation of the decision to place metal detectors at the Al-Aqsa Mosque gates during the Lion's Gate protest; and the opening of a place of worship at the Gate of Mercy by force after a Zionist closure that had lasted 16 years."













 *“Fatah calls for violence...”*






_*“Hamass calls for Jihad”*_








 (me too ! V & J )














 





​


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of Sinwar'istan is performing some world class sucking-up before his Iranian masters.

This really is humiliating for the Sunni Arab world as the Shia are a minority sect, viewed as heretics.



*HAMAS LEADER YAHYA SINWAR: IF NOT FOR IRAN'S SUPPORT, WE WOULD NOT HAVE OUR MISSILE CAPABILITIES*
May 30, 2019



Video at the link.

"Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar: If Not for Iran's Support, We Would Not Have Our Missile Capabilities"


----------



## Hollie

Something to hide, Mahmoud?

Even a small glimpse into the finances of the Fatah Islamic terrorist Syndicate is startling. 
*


Why is the PA suddenly hiding its financial expenditures?*

By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus

Why is the PA suddenly hiding its financial expenditures? - PMW Bulletins

Since 2014, the PA Ministry of Finance had been publishing an annual anticipated budget in the first part of the year as well as monthly reports of actual expenditures in each budget category. Based on the PA's 2018 monthly reports, Palestinian Media Watch was able to expose that the PA spent at least 502 million shekels on salaries and other benefits to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners in 2018. A short time later the Israeli government announced that in order not to fund PA terror support, it was deducting the 502 million shekel from the tax transfers to the PA, divided into 12 monthly deductions of 42 million shekels.

Having understood that the financial transparency was used by PMW and then the Israeli government to see the precise amount the PA was spending to reward terrorist prisoners, the PA decided to hide these figures from the international community. The website of the PA Ministry of Finance, in place of the financial reports now has this announcement: 

*"Due to the contingency law and legal dependencies with the Israeli side,*
*the financial reports were temporarily suspended."*






This notice has appeared for at least 2 months.

Significantly, the donor countries to the PA have demanded full financial transparency as a condition for giving the PA financial support. Currently, the PA is suffering from a self-imposed financial crisis due to its refusal to accept hundreds of millions of dollars a month that Israel has been sending it, and has turned to the international community asking them for additional financial aid. 

Were the PA to publish today the current monthly budgetary report the international community would be horrified. They would see PA expenditures in all budget categories were slashed significantly in 2019, except for the payments of salaries to terrorists and payment to so-called "Martyrs'" families, which will be the same or higher than last year. Whereas last year these two budget categories which include the financial support for terrorists were 7% of the PA budget, this year, as a result of the PA refusal to accept the tax revenues which account for 50% of its budget, the actual expenditures in these terror support categories will be a much greater percentage of PA expenses, possibly as high as 15%.


----------



## Hollie

So, I'm thinking the Hamas politburo mouthpiece is speaking to a narrow audience of Hamas Death Cultists.

Salah Al-Bardawil was whing about a perceived affront to Arab-Moslem "dignity, their religion, and their moral values."

So let's bring it on home: The above coming from an islamic terrorist franchise with a history of kidnapping, torture, mass murder, suicide bombings....I'm feeling a little queasy so I'll leave it there. 



Hamas official: Arab nations 'footing the bill' for Trump plan

Hamas political bureau member Salah Al-Bardawil said in a speech last week that “Palestine” belongs to the Palestinians, and criticized the Arab nations for "footing the bill" for the "rope and gallows" and the shackles that are being placed on the Palestinians and their dignity, their religion, and their moral values.


----------



## Hollie

During the last rocket gee-had, Hamas was sent a message that the IDF will not hesitate to offer Hamas leadership a generous Hellfire Missile Early Retirement Package. Hamas obviously got that message with a rather spectacular as’plodin of the formerly living, waste of oxygen Hamas 
pavement stain.

I have to believe that Islamic gee-had is on the Early Retirement Package list. 



*IDF Intel Chief: Hamas Is Deterred, but Islamic Jihad Is a Wild Card*

IDF Intel Chief: Hamas Is Deterred, but Islamic Jihad Is a Wild Card


----------



## Hollie

I have to believe the Islamic terrorists at the tip of the Hamas leadership role are leery of war. They have every indication that they will be “_dead man walking” _when the current Hudna ends and they cause the next war to begin. 
*


Military Intelligence Chief: Hamas Leery of War, Hezbollah Rockets Inaccurate

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye-on-palestine/hamas/military-intelligence-chief-hamas-leery-of-war-hezbollah-rockets-inaccurate/2019/06/05/*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

I would agree with this IF and only IF there is any intelligent life within HAMAS.



Hollie said:


> *•  Military Intelligence Chief: Hamas Leery of War, Hezbollah Rockets Inaccurate  •*


*(COMMENT)*

In this context, IDF MG Tamir Haiman MI, remarks on the increasing impact the IDF deterrence on the HAMAS Leadership.  I believe the remarks were without regard to the UN's perception on the on-going _(some class it as an)_ international armed conflicts (IAC) or _(others class it as)_ non-international armed conflicts (NIAC).  But rather, MG Tamir is talking about the adverse impact the IDF response has relative to the level of intensity, the increased lethality, AND the decrease in the "Quality of Life" (QoL) the conflict has on the Gazans.  And it is that "Quality of Life" (QoL) MG Tamir is speaking of when he refers to "_modus vivendi_."

In the case of the Arab Palestinians, Israel → cannot consider IAC components or the NAIC components, at an end as long as the _will_ of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) is totally not subdued.  And that must include all the new offspring of the HoAP that have been generationally infected → with no other role model than the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters generationally passed down by parents → with no gainful employment and a lack of any valuable skill sets.  MG Tamir might be hinting the general Gazan population has reached a point that the measure of the sacrifices by the general population is coming to an end.  The Gazans may be exhausted → no longer willing to sacrifice any more _(of what little they have)_ against an objective they have been working _(to attain)_ for half a century and can still see no light at the end of the never-ending tunnel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I would agree with this IF and only IF there is any intelligent life within HAMAS.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•  Military Intelligence Chief: Hamas Leery of War, Hezbollah Rockets Inaccurate  •*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In this context, IDF MG Tamir Haiman MI, remarks on the increasing impact the IDF deterrence on the HAMAS Leadership.  I believe the remarks were without regard to the UN's perception on the on-going _(some class it as an)_ international armed conflicts (IAC) or _(others class it as)_ non-international armed conflicts (NIAC).  But rather, MG Tamir is talking about the adverse impact the IDF response has relative to the level of intensity, the increased lethality, AND the decrease in the "Quality of Life" (QoL) the conflict has on the Gazans.  And it is that "Quality of Life" (QoL) MG Tamir is speaking of when he refers to "_modus vivendi_."
> 
> In the case of the Arab Palestinians, Israel → cannot consider IAC components or the NAIC components, at an end as long as the _will_ of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) is totally not subdued.  And that must include all the new offspring of the HoAP that have been generationally infected → with no other role model than the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters generationally passed down by parents → with no gainful employment and a lack of any valuable skill sets.  MG Tamir might be hinting the general Gazan population has reached a point that the measure of the sacrifices by the general population is coming to an end.  The Gazans may be exhausted → no longer willing to sacrifice any more _(of what little they have)_ against an objective they have been working _(to attain)_ for half a century and can still see no light at the end of the never-ending tunnel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I would agree with this IF and only IF there is any intelligent life within HAMAS.


Indeed, instead of doing all of that other stuff they should have had tree planting parties.


----------



## Ropey

Another leftist found helping Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I would agree with this IF and only IF there is any intelligent life within HAMAS.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•  Military Intelligence Chief: Hamas Leery of War, Hezbollah Rockets Inaccurate  •*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In this context, IDF MG Tamir Haiman MI, remarks on the increasing impact the IDF deterrence on the HAMAS Leadership.  I believe the remarks were without regard to the UN's perception on the on-going _(some class it as an)_ international armed conflicts (IAC) or _(others class it as)_ non-international armed conflicts (NIAC).  But rather, MG Tamir is talking about the adverse impact the IDF response has relative to the level of intensity, the increased lethality, AND the decrease in the "Quality of Life" (QoL) the conflict has on the Gazans.  And it is that "Quality of Life" (QoL) MG Tamir is speaking of when he refers to "_modus vivendi_."
> 
> In the case of the Arab Palestinians, Israel → cannot consider IAC components or the NAIC components, at an end as long as the _will_ of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) is totally not subdued.  And that must include all the new offspring of the HoAP that have been generationally infected → with no other role model than the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters generationally passed down by parents → with no gainful employment and a lack of any valuable skill sets.  MG Tamir might be hinting the general Gazan population has reached a point that the measure of the sacrifices by the general population is coming to an end.  The Gazans may be exhausted → no longer willing to sacrifice any more _(of what little they have)_ against an objective they have been working _(to attain)_ for half a century and can still see no light at the end of the never-ending tunnel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree with this IF and only IF there is any intelligent life within HAMAS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, instead of doing all of that other stuff they should have had tree planting parties.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you don’t understand.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I would agree with this IF and only IF there is any intelligent life within HAMAS.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *•  Military Intelligence Chief: Hamas Leery of War, Hezbollah Rockets Inaccurate  •*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In this context, IDF MG Tamir Haiman MI, remarks on the increasing impact the IDF deterrence on the HAMAS Leadership.  I believe the remarks were without regard to the UN's perception on the on-going _(some class it as an)_ international armed conflicts (IAC) or _(others class it as)_ non-international armed conflicts (NIAC).  But rather, MG Tamir is talking about the adverse impact the IDF response has relative to the level of intensity, the increased lethality, AND the decrease in the "Quality of Life" (QoL) the conflict has on the Gazans.  And it is that "Quality of Life" (QoL) MG Tamir is speaking of when he refers to "_modus vivendi_."
> 
> In the case of the Arab Palestinians, Israel → cannot consider IAC components or the NAIC components, at an end as long as the _will_ of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) is totally not subdued.  And that must include all the new offspring of the HoAP that have been generationally infected → with no other role model than the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters generationally passed down by parents → with no gainful employment and a lack of any valuable skill sets.  MG Tamir might be hinting the general Gazan population has reached a point that the measure of the sacrifices by the general population is coming to an end.  The Gazans may be exhausted → no longer willing to sacrifice any more _(of what little they have)_ against an objective they have been working _(to attain)_ for half a century and can still see no light at the end of the never-ending tunnel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Thar was another good read, Rocco.

I saw two parts in the comments from MG Haiman. One was alluding to Hamas being “deterred”. I think the spectacular failure of the border march, achieving nothing but dead and wounded Arabs, was seen by many as a disaster for Hamas. Their tunnel building has achieved nothing but throwing money into a hole in the ground, literally, and israel’s new-found willingness to whack the Hamas leadership has a “deterring” effect. The decision by the Hamas leadership to align with Iran was a complete disaster. While that relationship may have brought in needed cash and assistance with rockets, the Sunni Arab neighbors have no sense of humor about Iran gaining more influence in the region.

Whether the Arab-Moslem population really has had enough with failure and retrogression to make a change is, to me, unlikely. As you noted, generations of these folks have known only a cradle to grave program of hatred and rage directed at Jews and Israel. The infrastructure that enforces the hate and self-hate doesn’t appear to be getting dismantled any time soon.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem terrorists must have cashed their Iranian welfare check.

Gee-had denied. 



*Israel Foiled Hamas Attempt to Smuggle Materials for Missiles Into Gaza, Army Says *

According to IDF statement, two Palestinian vessels were seized trying to reach Egypt to obtain materials to manufacture projectiles last month

Israel foiled Hamas attempt to smuggle materials for missiles into Gaza, army says
Yaniv Kubovich  
Jun 07, 2019 9:46 AM


----------



## Hollie

Here’s some cool footage of the IDF putting the _had_ in the Islamic terrorist gee-had. 

I wonder how Hamas is going to explain this to their Shia masters when they go begging for their next welfare check. 


*
Watch: IDF Foiled Hamas Rocket Making Materials Smuggling on the High Seas

On May 11, Israel’s security forces foiled an attempt to smuggle materials intended for the manufacture of missiles by the Hamas terrorist organization in the Gaza Strip. The video published Friday morning shows the activity of IDF forces off the Gaza coast, during which two vessels were seized with 24 barrels containing rocket-making materials. The vessels were on their way to the Sinai.

*


----------



## Hollie

Just another Islamic terrorist failure.

*Israel prevents Hamas-affiliated group from receiving UN status
*
WASHINGTON - Israel's Mission to the UN led a diplomatic effort to prevent a Hamas–aligned group called "The Palestinian Association for Human Rights - Witness" from receiving a prestigious status at the UN.


----------



## Hollie

Shia Iran has every interest in furthering the conflict with Israel. The Shia are despised by the majority Sunni Arab.  Iran will gladly throw welfare money at Hamas to cause more violence and cause more dead Sunni Arabs.




Iran seems to have never stopped funding Hamas families

Read more: Iran seems to have never stopped funding Hamas families

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Iran has renewed its funding for the Hamas movement through aid to the families of Palestinians killed in resistance activities, numbering 1,700 families in the Gaza Strip, who stopped receiving their monthly salaries in February because of a decision by the Palestinian Authority (PA). A limited amount of funds also went to families affiliated with the Islamic Jihad movement.


----------



## Hollie

The winner of the identity politics sweepstakes is still rattling on with her impeachment gee-had.

Rashida Tlaib doesn’t understand that it would be in good form to actually have stuff we call “facts” supporting an impeachable offense before parading around like an out of touch loon. 


*
Tlaib backs impeachment as 'our job, our duty and responsibility' as Omar tweets 'call to action'

Reps. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., and Ilhan Omar, D-Minn. both called for Trump's impeachment on Wednesday, with Tlaib describing Special Counsel Robert Mueller'sreport as an "impeachment referral."

Comparing her class of lawmakers to Democrats elected to Congress following Richard Nixon's resignation in 1974, Tlaib said it was her duty and responsibility to uphold the Constitution through impeachment.

*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

This is a keeper.



Hollie said:


> Gee-had denied.
> Israel foiled Hamas attempt to smuggle materials for missiles into Gaza, army says
> Yaniv Kubovich
> Jun 07, 2019 9:46 AM


*(COMMENT)*
This is one of those examples you want to whip-out _(bang*!*)_ when the Hostile Arab Palestinians start complaining to the Human Rights People about the blockade.

v/r
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a keeper.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> Israel foiled Hamas attempt to smuggle materials for missiles into Gaza, army says
> Yaniv Kubovich
> Jun 07, 2019 9:46 AM
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> This is one of those examples you want to whip-out _(bang*!*)_ when the Hostile Arab Palestinians start complaining to the Human Rights People about the blockade.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...


That was my immediate reaction. Hamas complains about the blockade because it restricts the volume of weapons they can import.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> The Arab-Moslem terrorists must have cashed their Iranian welfare check.
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Foiled Hamas Attempt to Smuggle Materials for Missiles Into Gaza, Army Says *
> 
> According to IDF statement, two Palestinian vessels were seized trying to reach Egypt to obtain materials to manufacture projectiles last month
> 
> Israel foiled Hamas attempt to smuggle materials for missiles into Gaza, army says
> Yaniv Kubovich
> Jun 07, 2019 9:46 AM








*"According to IDF statement, two Palestinian vessels* 

 *were seized trying to reach Egypt to obtain materials to manufacture projectiles last month..."*





 just like the 

 "brothers" in ...somalia !  there goes the neighbohood....


----------



## Hollie

An interesting article at Palwatch that shows more of the fraud that defines the Abbas’istan mini-caliphate. 
*

How many Major-Generals do the PA security forces need?*

By Maurice Hirsch, Adv.

How many Major-Generals do the PA security forces need? - PMW Bulletins

While Palestinian Media Watch has already shown that the self-imposed financial crisis the PA is suffering from at the moment can easily be resolved if they would accept the hundreds of millions of shekels a month Israel has sent them, in an interview with the New York Times, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh, said that the PA is "in a collapsing situation". He then added, if that happens, the authority would have to furlough its police officers who police the PA controlled areas.

According to the report, between 2013 and 2017 the number of officers in the different PA security apparatuses *grew* from 23,163 to 30,313. Of these additional officers, 5,982 hold the rank of Lieutenant Colonel (+2,167) to Major General (+97). 

In the same period, the number of non-officers *shrunk* from 41,328 in 2013 to 37,409 in 2017 (a net decrease of 3,919 personnel).


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Those poor, Pal’istanians. They’re just not feeling the love. 

Not to worry, you have a friend in Tehran.



*Syrian media denies relations with Hamas, claims Muslim Brotherhood links*
By
News Desk
 -
2019-06-08
Syrian media denies relations with Hamas, claims Muslim Brotherhood links

BEIRUT, LEBANON (9:20 A.M.) – A media source told the Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) on Friday that Syria has not restored relations with Hamas, despite the claims by the Palestinian group’s leader, Ismail Haniyah, earlier this month.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Those “Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians”. How can anyone endure such suffering?

*

During Ramadan, late-night gyms boom in the Gaza Strip

During Ramadan, late-night gyms boom in the Gaza Strip
*
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – It's past midnight, but a dozen Palestinians are still running and sweating at a gym in the Gaza Strip.

During Islam's holiest month of Ramadan, Techno-Gym transforms into a late-night hot spot for young men struggling to stay in shape. In addition to self-discipline and prayer intended to bring adherents closer to God, the month is famed for its lavish meals and heavy desserts that follow a daylong fast.




Seems strange that the Islamic glut-fest, binge eating marathon has a religious connotation.


----------



## Hollie

Just another “Pal’istanian” psychopath making threats. 

“Abu” launched into a tirade about Islam taking over the world, “lay siege to Rome, turn White House black, Impose Jizya Tax on London, and pray on the slopes of the Rockies and Andes.”

“Abu” has a very busy social calendar. Just keep in mind that although “Abu” is a psychopath, he’s also a pious Moslem who holds a 7th century Arab warlord as the model for all Moslems for all time. 


Video here:
"Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Abu Hanifa Awda: We Will Lay Siege to Rome, Turn White House Black, Impose Jizya Tax on London, and Pray on the Slopes of the Rockies and Andes" 


Palestinian Sheikh Abu Hanifa Awda said in an address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that was uploaded to the Internet on June 2, 2019 that Jerusalem is the "heartland" where the banners of the Caliphate will flutter, where military convoys and brigades will assemble, and where policies will be designed in order to herald the "dawn of justice" and the birth of the Islamic Caliphate. Sheikh Awda said that the "army of Islam" will set forth from Jerusalem to conquer to world and that it will have a brigade dedicated to each of these tasks: the liberation of Palestine, the "ravaging of the homes," the destruction of the enemies' property, the taking of revenge against Bashar Al-Assad and Russia, the liberation of all the plundered Muslim countries, the laying of siege to Rome, the turning black of the White House, the imposition of the _jizya _poll tax on London, and the praying at the slopes of the Rocky Mountains and the Andes in order to fend off fear and danger.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The girl who made the mistake of making friends with a Zionist


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian stabs Israelis, and here come the excuses


----------



## Hollie

The "Secretary-General" (I suspect that's a title given by The Iranian Mullocrats), of Islamic gee-had; "Pal'istanian" franchise, is swaggering like a drunken teenager who just drank his first six pack. It's the usual threats made by the Sunni islamic welfare cheats waging gee-had on Shia Islamist welfare money. 

I suspect that the IDF putting on a _showtime _air campaign in response to another Islamic terrorist missile barrage would go a long way toward medicating the Islamist disease.    






"Ziyad Nakhaleh, the Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, said in a May 30, 2019 interview on Al-Manar TV (Lebanon) that were it not for Iran's support of the Palestinian people and the resistance, all of Palestine would have become part of Israel and the Palestinians would be working as slaves in Israeli factories and workshops. He explained that the resistance either uses Iranian weapons or weapons manufactured locally with the assistance of Iranian expertise. He said that the resistance has the ability to fire at least 1,000 missiles per day at all of Israel's cities for several months and that there will be "no red lines" in any future confrontation. Nakhaleh added that the resistance's fighters are working on the development of missiles with warheads that weigh as much as 500 kilograms."

Video here:
"Palestinian Islamic Jihad Leader Ziyad Nakhaleh: We Can Fire At Least 1,000 Missiles a Day for Many Months on All Israeli Cities"


----------



## Hollie

The various Islamic terrorist franchises have been learning from each other. However, they're only learning new ways to bring death and destruction. 

One of the real painful realities we're seeing is that across the Islamist Middle East,  Islamist ideology brings only destruction. From the early Buddhist rock statues in Afghanistan, to the architecture across Iraq and Syria, islamic ideology doesn't build or preserve history, the ideology seeks to remove all of it. 

*From Gaza to Iraq: Fire is a new weapon of ISIS, Hamas and others
*
By SETH J. FRANTZMAN
_









Middle East
17:26 | 06/10/19
More than 2,000 fires have been set in southern Israel and 8,700 acres burned between May 2018 and May 2019.

Last year Hamas hit upon a new way to terrorize Israel: its activists and supporters began attaching incendiary devices to balloons and floating them over the border from Gaza.

In Iraq, Islamic State has also been burning fields across the Center and North of the country to terrorize Iraqi farmers and to target various areas, including Sinjar, where members of the Yazidi minority live.









_


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> The various Islamic terrorist franchises have been learning from each other. However, they're only learning new ways to bring death and destruction.
> 
> One of the real painful realities we're seeing is that across the Islamist Middle East,  Islamist ideology brings only destruction. From the early Buddhist rock statues in Afghanistan, to the architecture across Iraq and Syria, islamic ideology doesn't build or preserve history, the ideology seeks to remove all of it.
> 
> *From Gaza to Iraq: Fire is a new weapon of ISIS, Hamas and others
> *
> By SETH J. FRANTZMAN
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Middle East
> 17:26 | 06/10/19
> More than 2,000 fires have been set in southern Israel and 8,700 acres burned between May 2018 and May 2019.
> 
> Last year Hamas hit upon a new way to terrorize Israel: its activists and supporters began attaching incendiary devices to balloons and floating them over the border from Gaza._
> 
> _In Iraq, Islamic State has also been burning fields across the Center and North of the country to terrorize Iraqi farmers and to target various areas, including Sinjar, where members of the Yazidi minority live._








*"Last year Hamas hit upon a new way to terrorize Israel: its activists and supporters began attaching incendiary devices to balloons and floating them over the border from Gaza."*





​


*"Hamass and "its* 

 *activists and supporters."*





 shouldn't they be LABELLED "*Terrorists*"  

 too?


----------



## member

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...






where's art ? 

 do you think he's seen all the responses 

 since he 1st posted over 5 years ago ?


----------



## Hollie

There's a good article in the J Post about World Jerusalem Day and the problems it creates for the Sunni Islamist world and its connections to Hamas vs. the dreaded Iranian Shia Islamists. 

Bloods and Crips with korans. 



WORLD JERUSALEM DAY, THE TRUMP PLAN AND HAMAS’S WARNING TO THE ARAB STATES

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.jpos...-Hamass-warning-to-the-Arab-states-592077/amp

YAHYA SINWAR, the head of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, gave a clear answer at the conference. He focused on US President Donald Trump’s “Deal of the Century,” which he views as an attempt to end the conflict in the area, integrate Israel into the Arab and Islamic region and change the mind-set of the Arab nation that turns enemies into friends and friends into enemies.

Two points he makes leave no doubt as to who in the region is behind this destructive confusion, from his point of view. He thanks Iran for aiding “the resistance,” without whose help Hamas could never have developed the military capabilities it demonstrated in the last round of hostilities.

Hamas, he added, cannot be castigated for thanking Iran, in obvious reference to the Arab Sunni states led by Saudi Arabia.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

You might want to keep this in the back of your mind; relative to these "Incendiary Weapons."  Pull it out every time people like our friend "P F Tinmore" asks the question:  "What law did they commit?"  Technically, the leaders of HAMAS are guilty of Plotting and Planning plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful, while the Gazan Launchers are each in violation for every act committed.

*(REFERENCE)*


			
				International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing New York said:
			
		

> [LINK:  *UN Resolution and the International Convention as the Annex: A/RES/52/164*]
> Article 1
> For the purposes of this Convention
> 
> 3."Explosive or other lethal device" means: a.An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​Article 2
> 1.Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use,  State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article​Article 9
> The offences set forth in Article 2 shall be deemed to be included as *extraditable offences *in any extradition treaty existing between any of the States Parties before the entry into force of this Convention. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be subsequently concluded between them.​


​


Hollie said:


> *From Gaza to Iraq: Fire is a new weapon of ISIS, Hamas and others*


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, it has been a principle weapon of criminals and terrorist since before the time of the Roman Empire.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> You might want to keep this in the back of your mind; relative to these "Incendiary Weapons."  Pull it out every time people like our friend "P F Tinmore" asks the question:  "What law did they commit?"  Technically, the leaders of HAMAS are guilty of Plotting and Planning plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful, while the Gazan Launchers are each in violation for every act committed.
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing New York said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [LINK:  *UN Resolution and the International Convention as the Annex: A/RES/52/164*]
> Article 1
> For the purposes of this Convention
> 
> 3."Explosive or other lethal device" means: a.An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​Article 2
> 1.Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use,  State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article​Article 9
> The offences set forth in Article 2 shall be deemed to be included as *extraditable offences *in any extradition treaty existing between any of the States Parties before the entry into force of this Convention. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be subsequently concluded between them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *From Gaza to Iraq: Fire is a new weapon of ISIS, Hamas and others*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it has been a principle weapon of criminals and terrorist since before the time of the Roman Empire.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

1.Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:​





Do you have a point?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Well, I sure do.  It is a matter of intensity and magnitude.



P F Tinmore said:


> Do you have a point?


*(COMMENT)*

There is _(clearly)_ a world of difference between the few instances wherein the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) called a fire mission of white phosphorus - and - the multiple uses of incendiary devices nearly every day. 

BTW:  While the UN did look into the IDF incidents involving white phosphorus (WP) and recommended against it, No treaty specifically prohibits the use of WP.   However, there are several treaties that regulate munitions containing white phosphorus (WP).   I recommend you look at the • 1980 Protocol on Incendiary Weapons • _(Protocol III on Incendiary Weapons of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons)_ before making too many sweeping remarks.  Again, the is a world of difference between using WP in the lumination (to mark targets).  

The IDF prohibited (in all circumstances) the use of WP to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.  I believe the IDF further made the use of WP to illuminate legitimate targets in target areas where the HoAP use civilian persons and objects by the placement of them in the vicinity of legitimate HAMAS hostile objectives and activities. 

The UN objected as _(a matter of media amplification and circus ride)_ the IDF use of WP located within a concentration of civilians (protected persons).  I think there were a total of five incidents involving the IDF use of WP.  It was, in the aftermath of those responses to Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) activity that - the IDF would discontinue the use of WP under those conditions where the HoAP are intentionally locating legitimate objectives within or near densely populated areas.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Well, I sure do.  It is a matter of intensity and magnitude.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is _(clearly)_ a world of difference between the few instances wherein the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) called a fire mission of white phosphorus - and - the multiple uses of incendiary devices nearly every day.
> 
> BTW:  While the UN did look into the IDF incidents involving white phosphorus (WP) and recommended against it, No treaty specifically prohibits the use of WP.   However, there are several treaties that regulate munitions containing white phosphorus (WP).   I recommend you look at the • 1980 Protocol on Incendiary Weapons • _(Protocol III on Incendiary Weapons of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons)_ before making too many sweeping remarks.  Again, the is a world of difference between using WP in the lumination (to mark targets).
> 
> The IDF prohibited (in all circumstances) the use of WP to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.  I believe the IDF further made the use of WP to illuminate legitimate targets in target areas where the HoAP use civilian persons and objects by the placement of them in the vicinity of legitimate HAMAS hostile objectives and activities.
> 
> The UN objected as _(a matter of media amplification and circus ride)_ the IDF use of WP located within a concentration of civilians (protected persons).  I think there were a total of five incidents involving the IDF use of WP.  It was, in the aftermath of those responses to Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) activity that - the IDF would discontinue the use of WP under those conditions where the HoAP are intentionally locating legitimate objectives within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but whatever the Palestinians do, Israel does more and first.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but whatever the Palestinians do, Israel does more and first.



Oh please, you sound like a child.  

(and don't bother with the next line I know is coming:  "Its true.  Look it up.")


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Well, I sure do.  It is a matter of intensity and magnitude.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is _(clearly)_ a world of difference between the few instances wherein the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) called a fire mission of white phosphorus - and - the multiple uses of incendiary devices nearly every day.
> 
> BTW:  While the UN did look into the IDF incidents involving white phosphorus (WP) and recommended against it, No treaty specifically prohibits the use of WP.   However, there are several treaties that regulate munitions containing white phosphorus (WP).   I recommend you look at the • 1980 Protocol on Incendiary Weapons • _(Protocol III on Incendiary Weapons of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons)_ before making too many sweeping remarks.  Again, the is a world of difference between using WP in the lumination (to mark targets).
> 
> The IDF prohibited (in all circumstances) the use of WP to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.  I believe the IDF further made the use of WP to illuminate legitimate targets in target areas where the HoAP use civilian persons and objects by the placement of them in the vicinity of legitimate HAMAS hostile objectives and activities.
> 
> The UN objected as _(a matter of media amplification and circus ride)_ the IDF use of WP located within a concentration of civilians (protected persons).  I think there were a total of five incidents involving the IDF use of WP.  It was, in the aftermath of those responses to Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) activity that - the IDF would discontinue the use of WP under those conditions where the HoAP are intentionally locating legitimate objectives within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but whatever the Palestinians do, Israel does more and first.
Click to expand...


Ya’ Allah, sweetie. Are you 5 years old?


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> You might want to keep this in the back of your mind; relative to these "Incendiary Weapons."  Pull it out every time people like our friend "P F Tinmore" asks the question:  "What law did they commit?"  Technically, the leaders of HAMAS are guilty of Plotting and Planning plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful, while the Gazan Launchers are each in violation for every act committed.
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing New York said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [LINK:  *UN Resolution and the International Convention as the Annex: A/RES/52/164*]
> Article 1
> For the purposes of this Convention
> 
> 3."Explosive or other lethal device" means: a.An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​Article 2
> 1.Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use,  State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article​Article 9
> The offences set forth in Article 2 shall be deemed to be included as *extraditable offences *in any extradition treaty existing between any of the States Parties before the entry into force of this Convention. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be subsequently concluded between them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *From Gaza to Iraq: Fire is a new weapon of ISIS, Hamas and others*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it has been a principle weapon of criminals and terrorist since before the time of the Roman Empire.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I certainly don't expect the poster P F Timore to address the actions of Hamas or any of the other Islamic terrorist organizations in Gaza or the West Bank.  He needs to defend that Arab honor. In that part of the world, rather than having an intrinsic moral sense, honor is more a matter of getting ones way as per a xenophobic, intolerant, misogynistic, and violent desert code. It simply doesn't matter that the Hamas and Fatah leadership create the conditions that kill countless Arab/Moslem men, women, and children and had countless others tortured and killed. Hamas and Fatah are _his_ monsters. Throw Israel into the weird, senseless conspiracy mix, and _voila!_— Arab/Moslem terrorists are the victims and Jews are (as usual) the villains.

I guess that is my fundamental difference with P F Tinmore and his murderous Islamic terrorist heroes. He describes violent gee-had as "resistance" and murderous Islamic psychopaths as pious Moslems. I think of Martin Luther King and Ghandi when I think of the word freedom fighter as I use it to describe people who seek to bring about social and political change without resorting to the use of religiously motivated mass murder / suicide. In my world, I can't ascribe the term "freedom fighter" to those who seek to impose a xenophobic, intolerant, misogynistic, and violent politico-religious code. Because Islamic terrorists use religiously sanctioned hatreds to promote car bombings, street murders, gee-had, they can never be considered "freedom fighters". They are nothing but Islamic terrorists. A soldier obeys a distinct hierarchy of leadership and wears a uniform. A soldier is a military representative for a state, and as a result, he can be held accountable for crimes committed while serving in that capacity.

As for the Islamic terrorist, they do not obey a strict hierarchy, do not wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they use civilians and population centers as places to wage war. They seek accountability for their terrorist actions. They are funded and given shelter by an authority that uses international welfare to commit their acts of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

There is quite a consortium of Islamic terrorist misfits aligning.

I'm just curious to know when these angry throwbacks are going to turn on each other.

Good idea. Put Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Communist Party and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in close contact with each other to "brainstorm". What could go wrong?


Scorn for US peace plan brings Hamas, Hezbollah closer


The Lebanon-based Alliance of Palestinian Forces — comprised of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Communist Party and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — recently requested a meeting with Hezbollah. According to Ataya, the process is at a preliminary stage, but is being pursued. The goal will be to agree on practical measures to resist Trump's plan and protect Lebanese and Palestinian interests. He remarked that converting Palestinian and Lebanese rejection of naturalization into practical steps will require brainstorming on the political and legal dimensions of the issue.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. It seems Assad is holding a grudge. What is the world coming to when Arab psychopaths can't get along?


Syria says no to restoring ties with 'terrorist-supporting' Hamas






Middle East
16:42 | 06/11/19

SYRIA SAYS NO TO RESTORING TIES WITH 'TERRORIST-SUPPORTING' HAMAS
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_





A GIRL holds an image of Syrian President Bashar Assad.. (photo credit:" REUTERS)
Hamas’s refusal to support the regime of Bashar Assad in the civil war that erupted in Syria in 2011 prompted the Syrians to cut their relations with the movement._


----------



## Hollie

It will be interesting to see where this goes.  



Republicans To Send Letter To Twitter Calling For Hamas Ban

*Republicans To Send Letter To Twitter Calling For Hamas Ban*
June 11th, 2019
_




Palestinian protesters pull a metal cable as they try to take down a section of barbed wire during clashes with Israeli forces on April 20, 2018, east of Khan Yunis, in the southern Gaza Strip during mass protests along the border of the Palestinian enclave, dubbed "The Great March of Return," which has the backing of Gaza's Islamist rulers Hamas. (SAID KHATIB/AFP/Getty Images)

Sixteen Republican congresspeople plan to send a letter to Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey Tuesday encouraging the platform to ban all content promoting terror specific to Hamas, The Daily Caller has learned.
_


----------



## Hollie

The man Mahmoud Abbas hand-picked to parade around as something called a “Prime Minister” is effectively announcing the looming failure of Abbas’istan. Muhammad Shtayyeh makes all the usual appeals to “it’s  everyone else’s fault for our incompetence and inadequacies”.

However, the so-called “financial crisis” within the West Bank falls squarely on an Islamic terrorist syndicate that has no business attempting to manage the affairs of civil government. 



New Palestinian Premier Warns of a ‘Very Hot Summer’

RAMALLAH, West Bank — Pressured by the Trump administration, confronted with Israeli talk of annexing the West Bank, increasingly isolated in the Arab world and running out of money, the beleaguered Palestinian Authority is staring at what its new prime minister acknowledges could be its own demise.

“We are in a collapsing situation,” the premier, Muhammad Shtayyeh, said in an interview.

A new Israeli antiterrorism law that withholds some Palestinian revenue has precipitated a financial crisis that could bankrupt the authority by July or August, he said. If that happens, the authority would have to furlough its police officers, he said — a not-so-veiled threat to Israel, which depends on Palestinian security forces to police the West Bank.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> There is quite a consortium of Islamic terrorist misfits aligning.
> 
> I'm just curious to know when these angry throwbacks are going to turn on each other.
> 
> Good idea. Put Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Communist Party and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in close contact with each other to "brainstorm". What could go wrong?
> 
> 
> Scorn for US peace plan brings Hamas, Hezbollah closer
> 
> 
> The Lebanon-based Alliance of Palestinian Forces — comprised of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Communist Party and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — recently requested a meeting with Hezbollah. According to Ataya, the process is at a preliminary stage, but is being pursued. The goal will be to agree on practical measures to resist Trump's plan and protect Lebanese and Palestinian interests. He remarked that converting Palestinian and Lebanese rejection of naturalization into practical steps will require brainstorming on the political and legal dimensions of the issue.



Israel withdrew from all of Lebanon in the year 2000.  So what exactly are the Lebanese resisting?


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is quite a consortium of Islamic terrorist misfits aligning.
> 
> I'm just curious to know when these angry throwbacks are going to turn on each other.
> 
> Good idea. Put Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Communist Party and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in close contact with each other to "brainstorm". What could go wrong?
> 
> 
> Scorn for US peace plan brings Hamas, Hezbollah closer
> 
> 
> The Lebanon-based Alliance of Palestinian Forces — comprised of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Communist Party and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — recently requested a meeting with Hezbollah. According to Ataya, the process is at a preliminary stage, but is being pursued. The goal will be to agree on practical measures to resist Trump's plan and protect Lebanese and Palestinian interests. He remarked that converting Palestinian and Lebanese rejection of naturalization into practical steps will require brainstorming on the political and legal dimensions of the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel withdrew from all of Lebanon in the year 2000.  So what exactly are the Lebanese resisting?
Click to expand...

The mere presence of Jews in the Middle East is an affront to Arabs-Moslems and to the Shia Iranians.  It is the Shia Iranian occupation army in Lebanon; Hezbollah, that is the greatest threat to Lebanon.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The angry islamists are, as usual, at each other's throats as they see the "Deal of the Century" affecting their viability. 

With the status quo of the UNRWA welfare fraud in place, there are fortunes to be made by the islamic terrorist franchises. All of that is in jeapordy now. 


*Hamas to the PA: Stop security coordination with Israel*

Hamas to the PA: Stop security coordination with Israel

Senior Hamas official calls on PA to return to path of resistance ahead of the publication of the Trump administration's peace plan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs' Nightmare: Absorbing Palestinians


----------



## Hollie

It is an interesting article that shines the harsh light of _apartheid_ embraced by Arabs-Moslems toward their unwanted “Pal’istanian”, squatters. 

Let’s be honest and admit that neighboring Arabs-Moslems will not accept the financial, political and social burden of angry, entitled “Pal’istanians”. 

The Jordanians went to war with Yassir “_it’s not AIDS_” Arafat when he decided that King Hussein was vulnerable. The neighboring Arab-Moslem nations have a long memory and use the “Pal’istanians” as a regional flail against Israel. Although, that’s clearly changing as those neighboring Arab-Moslem nations see Israel as an ally against the Shia Iranians and their new-found errand boys in Hamas and Islamic gee-had. 

Enjoy the show. 


*Arabs' Nightmare: Absorbing Palestinians*

*Arabs' Nightmare: Absorbing Palestinians


Lebanon says it fully supports the Palestinians in their fight against Israel -- but would like to see them leave the country as soon as possible.


This is the modern-day version of Arab "solidarity" with their Palestinian brothers: discrimination and apartheid -- no jobs, no citizenship, no health care and no social services.


Nor do Palestinian leaders give a damn about the welfare of their people. If they did, it would be hard to justify their impressive efforts to foil an economic conference whose main goal is to lift their people out of the economic hell these very leaders created and vigorously maintain.

*


----------



## Hollie

It may be that the Iranian Mullocrats ordered their flunkies in Hamas to renew attacks aimed at Israel before they cut another welfare check. 

Fortunately, Israel was quick to respond and the islamic terrorists will have to wait for orders from Tehran.  



*ISRAEL STRIKES GAZA TARGETS AFTER ROCKET FIRE*

Israel strikes Gaza targets after rocket fire






A ball of fire is seen during Israeli air strikes in Gaza May 4, 2019 (photo credit: REUTERS/MOHAMMED SALEM)

First rocket fire in over a month came shortly after Israel closed the fishing zone off of the Gaza coast.
Israel struck Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip early Thursday morning after the launching of a rocket towards Israeli border communities.

The IDF said fighter jets “attacked an underground terror infrastructure on a military compound belonging to the Hamas terror group in the southern Gaza Strip.The attack was carried out in response to the rocket fire from the Gaza Strip earlier in the night.”


----------



## Hollie

While there were rumors of a ceasefire with the islamic terrorists in Gaza, not so much.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> While there were rumors of a ceasefire with the islamic terrorists in Gaza, not so much.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While there were rumors of a ceasefire with the islamic terrorists in Gaza, not so much.
Click to expand...


While your Pom Pom flailing for islamic terrorists is misplaced, save the screeching violins for your Shia Iranian flunkies when the IDF responds.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While there were rumors of a ceasefire with the islamic terrorists in Gaza, not so much.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

You need more violins.  

Israel strikes Hamas targets in Gaza after intercepting rocket

The Israeli army said it struck Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip following interception of a rocket fired at Israeli border-communities early Thursday morning. _The escalation follows an Israeli decision to impose a maritime blockade on the Strip after continued launching of incendiary balloons from Gaza into Israel._


----------



## Mindful

*Lebanon Wants Its Palestinians Kept in Refugee Camps and Out of Lebanese Society*

In the wake of recent outbreaks of violence in Palestinian refugee camps in the country, the Lebanese parliament is now considering a law that would reform the governance of these twelve camps, where most of Lebanon’s 450,000 Palestinians live. The public discussion over the bill, writes *Khaled Abu Toameh*, reveals much about Lebanese attitudes toward the Palestinians, and Arab attitudes more broadly:

The Lebanese security forces do not operate inside the [refugee] camps, which have long been the scene of armed clashes among Palestinian groups, including Hamas, Fatah, and Islamic State terrorists. Last month, the Palestinians reached an agreement with the Lebanese authorities to “demilitarize” the Mieh Mieh refugee camp in southern Lebanon, which was the scene of armed clashes among rival Palestinian groups in the past two years. The agreement allows the Lebanese army to operate inside the camp, home to some 5,000 Palestinians.

Yet not all Lebanese seem to be satisfied with the way their government is handling the issue of the Palestinians in Lebanon. Many fear that the new law to manage the Palestinian refugee camp is nothing but a disguise to “resettle” the Palestinians in Lebanon, thus tampering with the country’s demographics. . . .


Lebanon Wants Its Palestinians Kept in Refugee Camps and Out of Lebanese Society


----------



## Hollie

The recent delivery by the IDF of some islamic terrorist behavioral modifications, (as'plodins in Gaza'istan), seems to have had the desired effect on the islamic terrorists.

It seems odd that the islamic terrorists call for saving a truce amid Islamic terrorist rocket and incendiary attacks. 


AMID INCREASED TENSIONS, HAMAS CALLS ON MEDIATORS TO SAVE GAZA TRUCE

Hamas calls on mediators to save Gaza truce


Arab-Israeli Conflict
19:36 | 06/13/19

_





Holding Israel responsible for failing to fully implement the understandings, Khalil al-Haya, a senior Hamas official, warned that Hamas may be forced to respond to the alleged foot-dragging.
Egyptian security officials are expected to visit the Gaza Strip to discuss ways of preserving the truce understandings between Hamas and Israel.

The planned visit comes amid increased tensions in light of continued projectile and incendiary balloon attacks from the Gaza Strip towards Israel.

Hamas officials claimed that Israel was searching for excuses to avoid the implementation of the truce understandings that were reached earlier this summer under the auspices of Egypt, the UN and Qatar._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The recent delivery by the IDF of some islamic terrorist behavioral modifications, (as'plodins in Gaza'istan), seems to have had the desired effect on the islamic terrorists.
> 
> It seems odd that the islamic terrorists call for saving a truce amid Islamic terrorist rocket and incendiary attacks.
> 
> 
> AMID INCREASED TENSIONS, HAMAS CALLS ON MEDIATORS TO SAVE GAZA TRUCE
> 
> Hamas calls on mediators to save Gaza truce
> 
> 
> Arab-Israeli Conflict
> 19:36 | 06/13/19
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holding Israel responsible for failing to fully implement the understandings, Khalil al-Haya, a senior Hamas official, warned that Hamas may be forced to respond to the alleged foot-dragging.
> Egyptian security officials are expected to visit the Gaza Strip to discuss ways of preserving the truce understandings between Hamas and Israel.
> 
> The planned visit comes amid increased tensions in light of continued projectile and incendiary balloon attacks from the Gaza Strip towards Israel.
> 
> Hamas officials claimed that Israel was searching for excuses to avoid the implementation of the truce understandings that were reached earlier this summer under the auspices of Egypt, the UN and Qatar._





Hollie said:


> Holding Israel responsible for failing to fully implement the understandings, Khalil al-Haya, a senior Hamas official, warned that Hamas may be forced to respond to the alleged foot-dragging.


They didn't mention what that was.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The recent delivery by the IDF of some islamic terrorist behavioral modifications, (as'plodins in Gaza'istan), seems to have had the desired effect on the islamic terrorists.
> 
> It seems odd that the islamic terrorists call for saving a truce amid Islamic terrorist rocket and incendiary attacks.
> 
> 
> AMID INCREASED TENSIONS, HAMAS CALLS ON MEDIATORS TO SAVE GAZA TRUCE
> 
> Hamas calls on mediators to save Gaza truce
> 
> 
> Arab-Israeli Conflict
> 19:36 | 06/13/19
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holding Israel responsible for failing to fully implement the understandings, Khalil al-Haya, a senior Hamas official, warned that Hamas may be forced to respond to the alleged foot-dragging.
> Egyptian security officials are expected to visit the Gaza Strip to discuss ways of preserving the truce understandings between Hamas and Israel.
> 
> The planned visit comes amid increased tensions in light of continued projectile and incendiary balloon attacks from the Gaza Strip towards Israel.
> 
> Hamas officials claimed that Israel was searching for excuses to avoid the implementation of the truce understandings that were reached earlier this summer under the auspices of Egypt, the UN and Qatar._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holding Israel responsible for failing to fully implement the understandings, Khalil al-Haya, a senior Hamas official, warned that Hamas may be forced to respond to the alleged foot-dragging.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't mention what that was.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Arabs-Moslems are in a predicament about what to do when their athletes lose to Israeli competitors.

I suppose the Arabs-Moslems could throw their losers off a rooftop?
*


Palestinian hypocrisy:*
*Jibril Rajoub forbids Palestinian-Israeli sports, *
*yet in Paris says sports is "a bridge of love and connection *
*with the international community"
*
Palestinian hypocrisy: Jibril Rajoub forbids Palestinian-Israeli sports, yet in Paris says sports is “a bridge of love and connection with the international community”  - PMW Bulletins
By Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.


 
It's ironic to hear senior PA leader Jibril Rajoub say at a football exhibition in Paris that sports is "a bridge of love and connection with the international community," considering that he has forbidden Palestinian players, coaches, and teams to ever engage in sports with Israelis.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestinian Animal League" weaponizes kindness to animals to incite hatred of Israel - and blames Israel for Palestinian homophobia! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Reading about the latest underground facility that the IDF as’plodid in Gaza’istan, it’s easy to see that the Islamic terrorists moles do their tunnel building the way they do everything else: incompetently. 


Your Complete Guide to Hamas' Network of Terror Tunnels - The Tower

Is another Gaza war inevitable? Judging by the latest reports in the Israeli media, it might seem that way. At a funeral for seven Hamas militants killed in a tunnel collapse, Hamas’ Gaza-based chief Ismail Haniyeh declared that the so-called “terror tunnels” are a mainstay of the terrorist group’s strategy against Israel. A senior Israeli defense official told reporters that Hamas has mostly rebuilt its tunnel infrastructure, which Israel destroyed in Operation Protective Edge in 2014. During the operation, the IDF demolished 32 tunnels, 14 of which crossed into Israel for the purpose of conducting terror attacks. Hamas publically confirmed their ongoing efforts to rebuild the tunnels by praising its subterranean heroes who are “toiling day and night” on reconstruction. Meanwhile, reports have trickled out of Gaza that six tunnels collapsed over the past two months, killing at least thirteen Gazans.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Reading about the latest underground facility that the IDF as’plodid in Gaza’istan, it’s easy to see that the Islamic terrorists moles do their tunnel building the way they do everything else: incompetently.
> 
> 
> Your Complete Guide to Hamas' Network of Terror Tunnels - The Tower
> 
> Is another Gaza war inevitable? Judging by the latest reports in the Israeli media, it might seem that way. At a funeral for seven Hamas militants killed in a tunnel collapse, Hamas’ Gaza-based chief Ismail Haniyeh declared that the so-called “terror tunnels” are a mainstay of the terrorist group’s strategy against Israel. A senior Israeli defense official told reporters that Hamas has mostly rebuilt its tunnel infrastructure, which Israel destroyed in Operation Protective Edge in 2014. During the operation, the IDF demolished 32 tunnels, 14 of which crossed into Israel for the purpose of conducting terror attacks. Hamas publically confirmed their ongoing efforts to rebuild the tunnels by praising its subterranean heroes who are “toiling day and night” on reconstruction. Meanwhile, reports have trickled out of Gaza that six tunnels collapsed over the past two months, killing at least thirteen Gazans.




*"rebuild* 

 *the tunnels by [...] subterranean heroes.."*


































​


----------



## Hollie

IDF attacks Hamas targets in Gaza flowing Sderot rocket hit
Army says targets include a Hamas naval facility, terror infrastructure; no casualties, injuries reported; week's events test stability of arrangement between Israel and Hamas

IDF attacks Hamas targets in Gaza flowing Sderot rocket hit

The IDF Spokesperson's Unit said targets included terror infrastructure in Hamas facilities as well as a facility belonging to the terror group's naval forces.








If anyone is going to Home Depot this weekend, could you pick up a new front door?


----------



## Hollie

Memri has a video of the expected islamic lunacy oozing from an Iranian nutbar. He rants about the Iranian association with Hamas and islamic gee-had bringing about the destruction of Israel. 

It's the same, shared psychosis that afflicts Moslems, even among the various tribes of Moslems who spend as much time Jew hating as they do as'ploding each other. 



Video here:
"Iranian Official Hassan Rahimpour Azghadi: Iranians Fought Alongside Hamas, Islamic Jihad in Gaza; We Will Destroy Israel within 25 Years"

Hassan Rahimpour Azghadi, a member of Iran's Supreme Council for Cultural Revolution, said in remarks that aired on Ofogh TV (Iran) on May 31 that, even without the help of other countries, Iran will destroy Israel and liberate Palestine within 25 years, as Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei has said in the past. Azghadi said that the Americans would end their sanctions if Iran stopped supporting the Palestinians, but that this is where Iran "draws the line." Giving the example of Israeli assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists, he said that Iran has paid a heavy price for its stance, and he added that Iranians had been present in Gaza and had fought alongside Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants during the recent conflict with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Anybody have an email address for the Iranian Mullocrats?

Hamas needs a welfare check.


----------



## Hollie

Eh, islamic terrorists making demands. They're whining about Israel reducing the so-called "fishing zone" after the resumption of Islamic terrorist attacks. 



HAMAS TO MLADENOV: WE WILL NOT TOLERANT THE CURRENT SITUATION - REPORT
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF
_




Breaking news. (photo credit:" JPOST STAFF)

Hamas to Mladenov: We will not tolerant the current situation - report

UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, Nikolay Mladenov, left the Gaza Strip through the Erez crossing on Friday, after he meeting with the Hamas leadership.

According to reports in the Gaza Strip, senior Hamas figures told the UN envoy that "they will not tolerate the current situation, and that Israel must immediately reopen the Gaza fishing zone."_


----------



## Hollie

I think this is for the best. Those uppity women should learn their place in the Islamic social order.



*Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza*

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bans-palestinian-womens-channel-in-gaza/*

*Group claims station, first of its kind, failed to get proper licensing, but management says all permits in order*


----------



## Hollie

*Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent*

*https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/10/23/two-authorities-one-way-zero-dissent/arbitrary-arrest-and-torture-under*

In the 25 years since Palestinians gained a degree of self-rule over the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, their authorities have established machineries of repression to crush dissent, including through the use of torture.

Both the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank and the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in Gaza have in recent years carried out scores of arbitrary arrests for peaceful criticism of the authorities, particularly on social media, among independent journalists, on university campuses, and at demonstrations.


----------



## Hollie

It’s comical that the head spokes-terrorist representing the Gaza franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. _is pleading ignorance regarding the most recent Islamic terrorist attack. 

I suspect the swift Israeli response took Hamas by surprise. One can only hope that the Israeli response to the next Islamic terrorist attack will be similarly swift and decisive. 

Oh, and how nice that more welfare cash will be coming to Hamas. More money they can use to burrow underground. It’s a way for Islamic terrorists to dig their own graves. 
*



Hamas chief tells UN he doesn’t know who fired past week’s rockets at Israel
*
Hamas chief tells UN he doesn’t know who fired past week’s rockets at Israel

Ismail Haniyeh says terror group investigating who carried out attacks; United Nations envoy Nickolay Mladenov says Qatari cash to arrive in Gaza in coming days


----------



## Hollie

Interesting article in RT. 

It may be that the IDF is going to allow for civilian casualties caused by the various Islamic terrorist franchises waging war from civilian areas. 

The Islamic terrorist franchises will hope that parading dead bodies around as prizes will win propaganda points but that tactic will fail. At some point, the civilian population is going to “have it up to here” with being disposable commodities. 



‘Very thin thread’: IDF may strike Gaza quietly & unexpectedly amid tensions with Hamas

The IDF reportedly wants to scrap the policy of warning Gaza residents before conducting airstrikes against alleged Hamas targets, as cross-border tensions with the enclave have once again flared up this week.
Israeli military typically warns the residents of Gaza, either by automatic phone calls or leaflets, to stay clear of buildings which could be affiliated with Hamas militants prior to striking them. But the never-ending violence along the Gaza-Israeli border, triggered by Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state, is making the IDF reconsider their tactics.


----------



## Hollie

Amid the latest ceasefire with Islamic terrorists, (where ceasefire means a minor reduction in Islamic terrorist attacks), Israel is displaying a willingness to ramp up retaliation for those attacks. 

The “proportional response” program Israel has used so far has allowed Islamic terrorists the ability to strike Israel without the fear of a devastating retaliation. That may change. 

*
Israel strikes Gaza for 2nd night in response to rocket fire (VIDEO)

‘Very thin thread’: IDF may strike Gaza quietly & unexpectedly amid tensions with Hamas
*
As Israel remains _“on the verge of a serious military campaign,”_ the IDF wants to end the policy of warning Gaza residents before airstrikes, even if it results in more casualties, a senior military source was quoted as saying by Channel 12.

_“Everything is hanging by a very thin thread and the situation could change dramatically,”_ the source added, noting that top generals are expected to push for a much stronger response soon.


----------



## Hollie

It really is laughable that the _Islamic Terrorist Welfare and Gee-had Endowment_ (aka UNRWA), still exists. 
*


Hamas endorsement of UNRWA elections underscores the agency’s inherent flaws

https://www.jns.org/hamas-endorsement-of-unrwa-education-elections-underscores-the-agencys-inherent-flaws/*

While the agency, which has long been tied to terror links and promotes incitement through its textbooks, says its mandate will end with the resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, even though UNRWA’s very existence is a factor that prevents any resolution.

According to David Bedein, director of the Israel Resource News Agency and Center for Near East Policy Research, while the endorsement is no surprise for an agency that was “effectively taken over” by Hamas 18 years ago, the news further underscores the problematic education that UNRWA provides—an indoctrination and brainwashing that is “beyond the imagination.”


----------



## Hollie

Ready for a heapin’ helpin’ dose of islamo-melodrama?

Abbas' advisor Al-Habbash, (hereinafter, Al), was on a tirade about “the entire world will pay”, seemingly a thinly veiled threat that the Arabs-Moslems are going to whine, complain and hold their breath till they turn blue if “the world” doesn’t pay attention to their tantrums.

Thanks, Al. 






"The entire world will pay" if Muslims don't "act" to save Al-Aqsa from "the Israeli plot," threatens Abbas' advisor on Islam
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
June 13, 2019 

"The entire world will pay" if Muslims don't "act" to save Al-Aqsa from "the Israeli plot," threatens Abbas' advisor on Islam - PMW Bulletins

*"The entire world will pay" if Muslims don't "act" to save Al-Aqsa from "the Israeli plot," *
*threatens Abbas' advisor on Islam* 

*Abbas' advisor Al-Habbash: Conflict with Israel is "between good and evil"*

*Al-Habbash: "If the Muslims don't act now, something will occur whose end is bad and bitter, and then the entire world will pay dearly"*

*Al-Habbash: "The battle over Jerusalem... is... a battle between facts and myth, between truth and falsehood, between justice and injustice, between integrity and distortion, between tolerance and fanaticism, and between good and evil..."*

*Al-Habbash: Israel is "Satan's project"; Israel has "Culture of Satan"*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## Sixties Fan

Activist Nate Chase of the World Workers Party said that Israel never has and never will exist and he described the “Zionist entity” as the “racist puppet” of U.S. imperialism. He led the chant: “We don’t want no two-state [solution]; we want all of it!” Rokeya Begum from Within Our Lifetime led chants that said “globalize the Intifada” and “smash the settler Zionist state.” Joe Catron of Samidoun led a chant that went: “There is only one solution – intifada, revolution!” The MC also led the chant: “Netanyahu, what do you say? How many kids did you kill today?”

(full article online)

Anti-Israel Rally at Times Square in New York with Horrific Idiotic Chants


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nah, they're not antisemitic: PA fires mayor for allowing Jews into town ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Hamas: New phase of understandings with Israel underway

Hamas: New phase of understandings with Israel underway









Nothing like kuffar welfare money to soothe the Islamic beast.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Qatar is making a token effort to compete with Shia Iran for the hearts and gee-had of the Arabs-Moslems. 






*Cash Splash: Qatar to Distribute Funds to Hamas Supporters*

Cash Splash: Qatar to Distribute Funds to Hamas Supporters

(AFP) — Gulf state Qatar is set to distribute more than $10 million in aid to thousands of cash-strapped Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, a Qatari official said on Monday


----------



## Hollie

Is everyone ready for the _New Phase?









Middle East
16:53 | 06/17/19

Hamas announces a new phase in its relations with Israel

HAMAS ANNOUNCES A NEW PHASE IN ITS RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF






_


----------



## Hollie

While the Sunni and Shia versions of Islam despise each other, they will occasionally allow a brief interruption in their bombings of each other's mosques and food markets to perform some blustering before the Great Satan.


*Iran, Hamas agree to fight US peace plan*

Iran, Hamas agree to fight US peace plan


Iranian intelligence minister meets leaders of Hamas terror group in Beirut to discuss need to 'confront' Trump's 'Deal of the Century.'


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute when they launch themselves into these 
saliva-slinging tirades.

What Arab-Moslem retrogrades don't want to acknowledge is that the existence of Israel has had and will have no impact on the slaughter that Arabs-Moslems are so anxious to mete out to each other. 

The numbers of dead Arabs-Moslems slaughtered across Iraq and Syria during the ISIS led dalliance extends toward 500,000. Arabs-Moslems found the most inventive ways to slaughter each other.

*Hamas not to rest until Israel is “obliterated”*

*



*



Hamas not to rest until Israel is "obliterated" - TV7 Israel News

The Islamist Hamas organization insists that “the region (e.g. Middle East) will not enjoy calm as long as the enemy (Israel) is on Palestinian land, and Gaza is besieged.” This according to Hamas Deputy Chief Khalil al-Haya in an article by the Wall Street Journal, asserting that Hamas and its Iranian-backed ally the Islamic Jihad have replenished their arsenal of some 10,000 missiles through smuggling and local manufacturing. The report was confirmed to TV7 by both Israeli officials and Hamas sources, affirming that the jointly imposed Israeli-Egyptian blockade on the Gaza Strip has not hindered the Gaza-rulers from restocking its supply of rockets and mortar shells to the level it amounted before the 2014 Gaza war.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Nothing but something like this can come out of the endless Islamic teachings of hatred towards Jews, and the superiority of Muslims over non-Muslims ]

Report: Palestinian janitor kidnapped, raped 7 year old Jewish girl as others watched. "Human Rights" NGOs silent. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Good call, Mahmoud. How embarrassing would it have been to call for a strike and nobody cared?
*

Fatah calls off strike planned to protest US-led conference in Bahrain

Fatah calls off strike planned to protest US-led conference in Bahrain*


Official says party canceled labor action to avoid hurting businesses, interfering with high school matriculation exams; 'marches in the homeland and diaspora' scheduled instead


----------



## Hollie

The Emir giveth, the competing islamic terrorist franchises taketh away.
*

QATARI FUNDS TRANSFERRED TO GAZA WITHDRAWN, NOT PAID OUT TO POOR FAMILIES*

Qatari funds transferred to Gaza withdrawn, not paid out to poor families


Clashes between Hamas ruled Gaza Strip and the West Bank lead to a disagreement over the usage of funds.

The Qatari funds which Israel transferred to Hamas on Sunday was not passed on to poor families as was intended, according to Gazan media. The instruction was allegedly given by the Welfare Ministry in Ramallah.

The reports said that the delay comes due to the removal of 5,000 families from the list of whom is supposed to be given the money. According to Palestinian sources, a disagreement between the Welfare Ministries in the West Bank and Gaza led to the delay and that "the [Palestinian] Authority believes the families were removed to be replaced by Hamas clerks," insisting that the original list be upheld. 


_





_


----------



## Hollie

It’s so nice that Arabs-Moslems occasionally use their womenfolk as something other than mere property. 




From Gaza classrooms to the DNC, Palestinian female terrorists are all the rage

It was an unexpected sight: A photo of Leila Khaled, the world’s first female airline hijacker, cradling an AK 47, featured in an adulating tweet from a young Socialist leader in the United States celebrating the 49th anniversary of Khaled’s hijacking of TWA flight 840.


----------



## Hollie

With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode. 

The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money. 

Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.




*Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
*Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*

Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort

GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Those Islamic terrorist welfare “shipping and handling fees” are pretty steep. 

I’m curious to see how much theft of their welfare money Qatar will allow before they abandon any more welfare contributions.



*Millions of Dollars in Qatar Funds for Gaza ‘Disappear’*

Millions of Dollars in Qatar Funds for Gaza 'Disappear' | Clarion Project





Yahya Sinwar, head of Hamas in the Gaza Strip (Photo: MOHAMMED ABED/AFP/Getty Images)

Ten million dollars in Qatar funds for Gaza transferred by Israel for humanitarian relief have apparently disappeared. Hamas, a designated terror organization, took over Gaza from the Palestinian Authority 12 years ago.

One report says the funds, which were deposited in the Postal Bank late Sunday, June 16, 2019, and meant to be distributed to a list of poor families, were withdrawn by “unknown people.”

The Palestinian Authority believes that the families were removed from the list and replaced by Hamas clerks.

Yet another $15 million in cash was brought into the Strip by a Qatari delegation as well late Sunday. Residents, who were promised, $100 each, have yet to see the money.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.


You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.

*Can Trump buy Palestine for peanuts?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.
> 
> 
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.
> 
> 
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.
Click to expand...


You must have missed it but the managers and proprietors of the Hamas welfare fraud syndicate have everything to lose with oversight of their welfare fraud theft ring. 

You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread:

Millions of Dollars in Qatar Funds for Gaza 'Disappear' | Clarion Project


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.
> 
> 
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must have missed it but the managers and proprietors of the Hamas welfare fraud syndicate have everything to lose with oversight of their welfare fraud theft ring.
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread:
> 
> Millions of Dollars in Qatar Funds for Gaza 'Disappear' | Clarion Project
Click to expand...

Ten million dollars in Qatar funds for Gaza transferred by Israel for humanitarian relief have apparently disappeared. Hamas, a designated terror organization, took over Gaza from the Palestinian Authority 12 years ago.​
Their first sentence is a lie. How can I trust the rest of it?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.
> 
> 
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the “Deal of the Century” approaching, Hamas is getting more desperate and closer to panic mode.
> 
> The latest blustering from Haniyeh comes with the usual demands that the Islamic terrorists put on their welfare checks; that there are no conditions attached to that welfare money.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is the reality that the west, and others, have created such that the Islamic terrorist franchises just assume that their welfare is a forever entitlement that allows for Islamic terrorists to accumulate incredible fortunes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort*
> *Palestinian group’s political leader opens door to investment but rejects any economic plan without a solution to Mideast conflict*
> 
> Hamas Spurns U.S.-Led Aid Effort
> 
> GAZA CITY—The Palestinian militant group Hamas signaled it was only open to receiving humanitarian aid generated by a Trump administration peace effort if the assistance is unconditional and doesn’t come at the expense of a Palestinian state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must have missed it but the managers and proprietors of the Hamas welfare fraud syndicate have everything to lose with oversight of their welfare fraud theft ring.
> 
> You must have missed this. It was posted on another thread:
> 
> Millions of Dollars in Qatar Funds for Gaza 'Disappear' | Clarion Project
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ten million dollars in Qatar funds for Gaza transferred by Israel for humanitarian relief have apparently disappeared. Hamas, a designated terror organization, took over Gaza from the Palestinian Authority 12 years ago.​
> Their first sentence is a lie. How can I trust the rest of it?
Click to expand...


So.... your real complaint is that despite all your Pom Pom flailing for Hamas, you’re not getting any of that stolen welfare money. 

You poor, dear.


----------



## Hollie

I would consider revising the title below to read” *Making Sense of Pal’istanian Mentality”*



*Making Sense of Palestinian Logic *
May 4, 2019 1:37 PM

Palestinians' Blackmail Logic | National Review

Palestinians do weird things. A few days ago, the Palestinian Authority (PA), which rules most of the West Bank, refused to accept the tax revenues it is owed by the Israeli government. Today, Hamas, which rules all of Gaza, launched more than 200 rockets into Israel.

Both of these are, on the surface, self-defeating steps that make no sense. Not taking the money means the PA could collapse; firing rockets means Hamas is getting battered militarily by the far superior Israeli forces.

thriving in nearly every domain, from demographics to economics, from democracy to cultural creativity.

The Palestinians feel isolated and weak because the Arab states have basically come to terms with Israel’s existence, leaving the struggle to secondary players such as Iran, Turkey, and the global Left.

No matter their weakness, the leaders of the PA and Hamas remain committed to the elimination of the Jewish state, meaning that they cannot live in peace next to Israel.

Contrarily, the Israeli public cherishes normality and, especially since the 1993 Oslo accords, has been ready to pay a price for it.


----------



## Hollie

As the Islamic terrorist franchises see their welfare entitlement in jeopardy, they’re getting quite desperate.  
*



Fatah calls for violence against Israel  
during Bahrain Conference*

Fatah calls for violence against Israel during Bahrain Conference - PMW Bulletins

*US Deal of the Century coined "The Holocaust of the Century," *
*by Palestinian group*

**   Fatah calls for violence: *
*"On Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, June 24, 25, and 26, 2019*
*An escalation of the confrontations with the Israeli occupation in all districts of the homeland as a sign of opposition to the Deal of the Century and the workshop in Manama [in Bahrain]"*

**   Fatah official threatens violence:*
*"The great plot... will push our Palestinian people to protect its rights by all means available to it"*

**   Fatah official: *
*"The Fatah members and the vital forces on the Palestinian lands [should dedicate] the 24th, 25th, and 26th [of June] to Palestine and Jerusalem, in order to express their rejection of the Bahrain Conference"*

**   Director of anti-Bahrain Conference event: *
*"The Zionist-American 'Holocaust of the century' has come to eliminate the Palestinian cause, and in order to pass this, it was necessary to convene the Bahrain conference for Arab normalization with the Israeli racism, under the cover of 'the illusion of economic prosperity'"*


----------



## Hollie

I know folks will find this shocking, but:

*PLO, Hamas Representatives Reject Kushner Peace Plan - Report*

*https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201906231076023898-plo-hamas-representatives-reject-kushner-peace-plan---report/*

© AP Photo / Evan Vucci
According to the representatives, the only solution to the ongoing Palestinian-Israeli conflict is for Israel to leave Palestinians to themselves and remove all obstacles to their existence and trade. The entirety of the US peace plan for the Middle East will be presented later next week.





Leaving the Arabs-Moslems to themselves is a bit naive. They have this peculiar notion that slaughtering Jews and erasing Israel is a religious duty.


----------



## Hollie

My, how things have changed in the Arab-Islamic world. 
*



SAUDI OFFICIAL SAYS 'DEAL OF CENTURY' LEADS TO FULL PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD

Saudi official says 'Deal of Century' leads to full Palestinian statehood*

The official slammed Palestinian leadership as “irresponsible” for not even considering the Deal of the Century, which will bring 60 billion USD to their people.

“History and Allah brought a real opportunity,” a top-ranking Saudi diplomat told Israelis via an interview in Globes on Friday. “The blood conflict had lasted too long. Us Saudis and all Gulf States plus Egypt and Jordan realize that the age of going to war with Israel is over.” 

Pointing to “the advantages of normalizing relations,” he argued that “the whole Arab world could benefit from it,” Globes reported.  

The Saudi diplomat told Globes that “Israeli technology is very advanced and the Arab world, including those who hate you, looks at Israel in admiration due to this success and hopes to copy it.” 





If it’s approved by Allah, that’s all anyone needs to know.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Jun-19: What do Palestinian Arabs think?


----------



## Sixties Fan

You know how Palestinians pretend the first intifada was peaceful? Well, only in English. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Jun-19: What do Palestinian Arabs think?


Hamas who after all have only controlled Gaza since 2007 after winning the 2006 elections there and then violently overturning Fatah's control.​
Explain how this makes sense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 04-Jun-19: What do Palestinian Arabs think?
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas who after all have only controlled Gaza since 2007 after winning the 2006 elections there and then violently overturning Fatah's control.​
> Explain how this makes sense.
Click to expand...


In the alternate reality of Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates, very little makes sense.


----------



## Hollie

The _Hamas Welfare Entitlement Franchise_ is in full panic mode. They’re looking at the real possibility of their welfare entitlement and an entrenched criminal enterprise racket being dismantled. 
*


Hamas official: Bahrain conference won't bring results*

*http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/264998*

Senior Hamas official says economic conference in Bahrain is being held as part of US efforts to eliminate the Palestinian issue

Husam Badran, a member of the Hamas political bureau, on Sunday rejected any possibility that this week’s US-led economic conference in Bahrain will succeed.

In a press release, Badran said there would be no practical results for the economic conference in Bahrain, which, he claimed, is part of the American plan to "eliminate" the Palestinian issue.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why exactly does the Arab League exist?  Where was this organization during the centuries of Ottoman conquest of the land?   Yes, we do now why they exist and what their purpose is.
No, Arab League.  There isn't enough oil money capable of destroying Israel.  Or enough money the Arab leaders will not be happy to put into their pockets.  ]

The Arab League on Sunday reaffirmed a pledge to pay $100 million a month to the Palestinian Authority (PA).

Arab finance ministers meeting in Cairo renewed a promise first made in April to boost "the Palestinian Authority's budget with a $100 million monthly transfer... as it faces financial burdens", a statement quoted by _AFP_ said.

Arab League reaffirms safety net for PA


----------



## Hollie

There is a good read in the LA Times outlining some changing dynamics across Islam'istan. The darlings of the radical left (Pal'istanian terrorists) here in the Great Satan are not so warmly embraced by Arabs-Moslems in the Middle East.
*
*

*
Palestinians look to Arab governments for support, but the response is tepid
*
There has been no shortage of dramatic images from the Gaza Strip in recent weeks as Palestinian protesters have faced off against the Israeli military

Arab governments were measured in their condemnations of both Israel, which suffered no loss of life in the clashes, and its most important ally, the United States, which escalated tensions by moving its embassy from Tel Aviv to the disputed capital of Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

More of the usual rants that emanate from the Arab-Moslem Death Cult. 


*
Video here:
"Senior Hamas Official Fathi Hamad: Mosques in Israel Must Be Liberated, Purified from Filth of Occupation"*


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist welfare fraud managers were out again making a lot of blustering threats. 
*

Hamas warns against applying sovereignty in Judea and Samaria*

*Hamas warns against applying sovereignty in Judea and Samaria
*
Hamas calls on Palestinian organizations to prepare for fight against Bahrain conference and "Deal of the Century".

The Hamas terrorist organization on Monday issued an official statement rejecting the “Deal of the Century” of the Trump administration to resolve the longstanding conflict between Israelis and Palestinian Arabs.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose feeling left behind in the pompous Islamic threat issuing business, the Fatah version of the _Islamic Welfare Fraud_ decided it was time for their Islamo-yutes to offer some blustering. 


*Fatah youth threaten intifada in response to Bahrain Conference: "[We can] make the ground burn under the feet of the tyrants" - PMW Bulletins


Fatah youth threaten intifada
 in response to Bahrain Conference: 
"[We can] make the ground burn
under the feet of the tyrants"*


*US Ambassador Friedman, US Envoy Greenblatt, *
*and US Presidential Advisor Kushner are *
*"the Zionist hate triangle"*


*Secretary-General of Fatah Shabiba Youth Movement: "Shabiba... is prepared for every eventuality, and its members who ignited the first Intifada and the Al-Aqsa Intifada are still capable of making the ground burn under the feet of the tyrants"
*
*The National and Islamic Forces called to consider Monday "a day of popular demonstrations of rage as a sign of resistance" and Tuesday "a day of escalation on the ground at the points of friction"
*

*Shabiba Secretary-General: Palestinians who participate in the Bahrain workshop are considered traitors - Fatah youth will "respond... with full force"*


----------



## Hollie

Whine fest in the “state” of Pally’land


----------



## Hollie

Typical of the Islamist terrorist mindset. They are never responsible for their actions; they are not accountable and "it's always someone else's fault".


*Hamas furious at Israel's response to balloon terror*

Hamas furious at Israel's response to balloon terror

Senior Hamas member says Israel bears full responsibility for deterioration of situation near Gaza border.

Khalil al-Hayya, a senior member of the Hamas terrorist organization in Gaza, on Tuesday said Israel bore full responsibility for the deterioration of the situation due to what he called “Israeli procrastination in the implementation of the understandings regarding the lull.”


Wait. Regarding the "lull"?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amnesia and willful ignorance seem to be running amok in today’s political arena, especially when it comes to Israel and the Palestinians — mostly due to the desperation for a peace agreement. And it is in this environment that we were introduced to President Trump’s plan to alleviate the economic hardships facing the Palestinian people.

But the uncomfortable reality of the situation is that the conflict is not about economics. Nor is it about two states. This festering conflict fails to cease because one side absolutely refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of the other.

Even before being presented with the US plan, the Palestinians rejected it outright. They did not know any details, nor did they come to the table with any counter-proposals. They simply rejected it, just as they rejected the peace plans presented by former Israeli leaders Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert.

And they will continue to reject any proposal that will end the conflict — because right now, they do not want it to end.

(full article online)

There Won’t Be Peace Until the Palestinians Accept Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The underlying message of the U.S.-sponsored summit in Manama exposes the fact that the P.A. and PLO no longer represent the interests of the Palestinians.

(full article online)

The real reason the Palestinians are refusing to attend the Bahrain conference


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Could they be any clearer ?  ]

Khaled Mashaal warns against Arab countries supporting US 'Peace to Prosperity' plan, promises Israel will remain an enemy.

(full article online)

Former Hamas leader: Israel is not part of the solution


----------



## Sixties Fan

A general strike was observed in the Gaza Strip in the Palestinian Authority on Tuesday in protest of the convening of a US-sponsored economic “workshop’ in Manama, Bahrain, WAFA reported, noting that the protesters in Judea and Samaria “are preparing for clashes with Israeli soldiers at the checkpoints around the cities.”

According to Ma’an, the protest activities are orchestrated by the Gaza and PA governments and will continue in coordination and partnership with national action groups and trade unions through Wednesday.

(full article online)

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/ey...ve-strike-over-bahrain-conference/2019/06/25/


----------



## Sixties Fan

UNRWA gets funding to last another few months - but Arab nations didn't donate a dime ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Arab leadership destroyed the chance for peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Bahrain workshop, which places no demands on Palestinians, is an object lesson in how the "phased plan" is still being implemented.

A telling detail from Haaretz' coverage:

 In the end, the Palestinians were there too. About 15 Palestinians attended, including Ashraf Jabari from Hebron, the only Palestinian scheduled to speak at the conference. They told Haaretz that they came from all parts of the West Bank and Jerusalem, and Jabari may be representing them as a speaker, but they support the conference, too. At one point, the former IDF Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, reserve general Yoav Mordechai, sat with them on the sofas in the hotel lobby. Mordechai attended the conference as a private businessman. Haaretz also saw other Palestinians at the event who were not part of Jabari’s group – but they asked to remain anonymous.
The Palestinian Authority, if they cared about their own people, would have said "we are against the conference but you can attend if you want." Instead, they pressured Palestinian businesspeople not to attend - with implicit threats - so the ones who showed up must remain nameless.
----

Is this how national leaders who want to build a state act?

(full article online)

Bahrain proves it again: If "peace" is not a stage to destroy Israel, then Palestinian leaders aren't interested ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian prime minister gaslights the world on PBS ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It's interesting that in the islamic terrorist version of a ceasefire, it's only the side opposing the islamic terrorists that is expected to abide by the ceasefire. 
*

Hamas warns ceasefire in danger as Israel cuts fuel supply over arson attacks

Hamas warns ceasefire in danger as Israel cuts fuel supply over arson attacks
*
UN delegation reportedly arrives in Gaza for talks with terror group’s leaders, as wildfires ignited by airborne incendiary devices scorch south


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the Islamic terrorists representing the Fatah franchise are just gushing over their home grown Death Cultists. 

The Fatah branded psychopaths are “second only to Allah”. 
*




PA top officials support terrorist murderers:*
*They are "before all" and second only to Allah*

PA top officials support terrorist murderers - PMW Bulletins

*Bahrain discusses ways to make the PA economy prosper, *
*but the PA stubbornly insists on prioritizing terrorists *
*and their pay-for-slay salaries*




 


*Head of PA General Intelligence: "After our faith in Almighty Allah, we bow before the Martyrs and prisoners"*

*PA Mufti: "We prioritize them over ourselves... The prisoners, the wounded, and the Martyrs too, are before all"*

*Abbas' Fatah deputy: They are "a laurel wreath on the forehead of this homeland"*


----------



## Hollie

Is there somehow an expectation that a totalitarian Islamists kleptocracy is going to respect human rights?


*
Special: 'We exposed the true face of the Palestinian Authority'
*
Israeli lawyer represents 52 Palestinian Arabs who were tortured by the PA at the International Criminal Court. Arutz Sheva accompanied him.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Even with witnesses, this is not so easy to prosecute; especially in The Hague.



Hollie said:


> Is there somehow an expectation that a totalitarian Islamists kleptocracy is going to respect human rights?
> *Special: 'We exposed the true face of the Palestinian Authority'*
> Israeli lawyer represents 52 Palestinian Arabs who were tortured by the PA at the International Criminal Court. Arutz Sheva accompanied him.


*(COMMENT)*

There is a couple of different ways I've seen this approached.  But the hard thing will be to ask the ICC [Article 8(2a)(ii)] to accept jurisdiction under the The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (into force 1987); and the case must be of sufficient gravity to justify further action by the Court [Article 17(1d)] Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.  That is, it must be covered by the Geneva Convention, Common Article 3 prohibits “cruel treatment and torture.”

It will be interesting to see if the ICC accepts the case. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Is there somehow an expectation that a totalitarian Islamists kleptocracy is going to respect human rights?
> 
> 
> *
> Special: 'We exposed the true face of the Palestinian Authority'
> *
> Israeli lawyer represents 52 Palestinian Arabs who were tortured by the PA at the International Criminal Court. Arutz Sheva accompanied him.


The PA is a foreign installed and supported entity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Even with witnesses, this is not so easy to prosecute; especially in The Hague.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there somehow an expectation that a totalitarian Islamists kleptocracy is going to respect human rights?
> *Special: 'We exposed the true face of the Palestinian Authority'*
> Israeli lawyer represents 52 Palestinian Arabs who were tortured by the PA at the International Criminal Court. Arutz Sheva accompanied him.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a couple of different ways I've seen this approached.  But the hard thing will be to ask the ICC [Article 8(2a)(ii)] to accept jurisdiction under the The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (into force 1987); and the case must be of sufficient gravity to justify further action by the Court [Article 17(1d)] Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.  That is, it must be covered by the Geneva Convention, Common Article 3 prohibits “cruel treatment and torture.”
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the ICC accepts the case.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The US and Israel will not allow that prosecution.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there somehow an expectation that a totalitarian Islamists kleptocracy is going to respect human rights?
> 
> 
> *
> Special: 'We exposed the true face of the Palestinian Authority'
> *
> Israeli lawyer represents 52 Palestinian Arabs who were tortured by the PA at the International Criminal Court. Arutz Sheva accompanied him.
> 
> 
> 
> The PA is a foreign installed and supported entity.
Click to expand...


Indeed, this is not the correct forum for your conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

I’m convinced that the Arabs-Moslems don’t understand that these displays of cheap theatrics would be much more entertaining if they got serious about the hosting. 











Palestinians against Trump: Trump doll hanged and burned, Trump is a Nazi, his “Deal of the Devil” is dead, Fatah: Participants in Bahrain are backstabbing Palestine


by Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
June 25, 2019 

Palestinians against Trump: Trump doll hanged and burned, Trump is a Nazi, his “Deal of the Devil” is dead, Fatah: Participants in Bahrain are backstabbing Palestine - PMW Bulletins 

*Palestinians against Trump and Bahrain: 
Effigy of Trump hung and burned*






*Trump is a Nazi, his Deal of the Century is
"the Deal of the Devil" *

*Fatah: Participants in Bahrain are backstabbing Palestine*


----------



## Hollie

How nice that some folks promote breeding for the purpose of creating the next generation of Islamo-bots for the gee-had.  



Terror mom urges imprisoned terrorists to smuggle out sperm and father as many children as possible
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
June 27, 2019 

Terror mom urges imprisoned terrorists to smuggle out sperm and father as many children as possible - PMW Bulletins
https://www.palwatch.org/site/modules/print/preview.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=27745&section=all
Share |




*PA Minister of Women’s Affairs congratulated terror mom *
*over grandson born of smuggled sperm*


----------



## Sixties Fan

" The agreements that took place between some Arab regimes and the Israeli regime proved that there is nothing sacred in Zionist thought. The Zionist entity gave up some of what was long promoted as sacred in the body of the Hebrew state. What  happened to the slogan about a land from the Nile to the Euphrates?  Where is Judea and Samaria? What happened to the settlements that Tel Aviv said were for security and were then demolished by their own hands in the Sinai and the Gaza Strip? All this has become nonsense .. The country of honey and milk is the country of explosives and violence and death and anxiety."


------
The rest of the article is similar nonsense, but this paragraph is useful because it shows that to many Arabs, Israeli concessions for peace are regarded not as noble but as evidence of weakness, to be mocked.

It doesn't mean that Israel should never make bargains with its enemies for peace. It does mean that Israel should not assume that there will be any goodwill in Arab countries as a result of its concessions.

(full article online)

Palestinian writer says Zionism failed - there is no Jew-only state between the Nile and the Euphrates ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I suspect there is very little that will enrage a “Hamas official” more than an Arab / Bahraini official commenting that Israel is “ a country to stay” and that an Arab nations wants better relations with Israel. 

The “Pal’istanians” still cling to a worldview wherein it’s the 1970’s, Arafat is the Sultan / Emir of the mini-caliphate he commanded over and a portion of the Arab world is plotting a last-gasp effort to destroy Israel. 
*
Senior Hamas official lashes out at Bahraini FM over comments to ToI
*
In a wide-ranging interview on the sidelines of the US-led Peace to Prosperity conference in Manama on Wednesday, Khalifa told ToI that Israel’s existence is a fact.

In his interview with ToI, Khalifa did not call on Arab states to recognize Israel, but he did say, “We do believe that Israel is a country to stay, and we want a better relation with it, and we want peace with it.”

He also reiterated his stance that Israel has a right to defend itself from aggression.


----------



## Hollie

I cant say I'm real clear as to why there should be an expectation that the islamic terrorists will abide by any ceasefire agreement.


Fires rage across southern Israel despite reported agreement with Hamas

Israel News
14:31 | 06/28/19

FIRES RAGE ACROSS SOUTHERN ISRAEL DESPITE REPORTED AGREEMENT WITH HAMAS
By ANNA AHRONHEIM
_




The results of a fire started by an incendiary balloon in the Beeri forest, September 24, 2018. (photo credit:" YOAV SAAD/KKL-JNF)
The balloons came despite Israel expanding the Gaza fishing zone up to 15 nautical miles starting at 10am and agreed to return 60 boats that had been confiscated from Gazans._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah is the majority faction in the Palestinian Authority. It is by far the largest faction of the PLO, of which the P.A. is an arm. Fatah is led by Mahmoud Abbas, who is also the chairman of the P.A. and the PLO.

In a word, Fatah is the ruling party.

So when a Fatah spokesperson or publication says something, it’s the equivalent of an official statement by the Republican Party in the United States, the Conservatives in Great Britain or the Liberals in Canada. It’s a big deal.

Can you imagine the Republicans threatening violence to stop some conference of which they disapproved? How would the world react if the leaders of the Conservative Party in England called for “escalation of the confrontation” to halt an event it disliked? Or if Liberal leaders in Canada posted a photo of one of their followers poised to throw a rock at one of their opponents?

That’s what Fatah did. That’s what Jason Greenblatt was referring to.

Fatah Revolutionary Council Secretary Majed Al-Fatiani said Fatah’s council “is committed to leading the struggle to stop the great plot that is being woven against our people” and will use “all means available to it, in order to defeat the occupation.” Since Palestinian Arabs have for the past century been using bombs, knives, axes, machine-guns and rocks to “defeat the occupation,” we can assume that the Palestinian public understands what “all means available” means.

Al-Fatiani’s comments were published prominently in the official P.A. newspaper, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, on June 13.

On June 16, Fatah posted on its official Facebook page a large photo of a masked Palestinian about to throw a rock—that is, about to attempt to stone a Jew to death. The accompanying text urging Palestinians to undertake “An escalation of the confrontations with the Israeli occupation in all districts of the homeland as a sign of opposition to the deal of the century and the workshop in Manama [Bahrain]”

(full article online)

When the ruling party threatens violence


----------



## Ropey

They don't want peace and Iran's game is done.


----------



## Hollie

So, stop me if you’ve heard this one before.


More fires, protests erupt after new Israel-Hamas agreement

June 28 (UPI) -- Israeli firefighters fought several new fires Friday, sparked by what the government believes are Hamas balloons carrying disguised explosive devices over the border.



Many may not know this but _ceasefire_ in Arabic translates from the Latin term “just a small reduction in the overall number of attacks on Jews”.

Something like that.




*
*


----------



## Hollie

*
Despite Israel-Hamas understandings, 49 Palestinians said wounded in border protests
*
Forty-nine Palestinians were wounded during protests along the Israel-Gaza border on Friday, 19 of those by live fire, the Gaza Health Ministry reported. According to the ministry, eight of the wounded were volunteer paramedics and one was a journalist.
*

*
Many may not know this but the Hebrew term for _gee-had denied_ derives from the Hebrew term “gee-had denied”.


----------



## Hollie

It’s not surprising that the Hamas leadership is demanding millions of Qatari welfare money for Hamas “employees”. The Islamic terrorist / criminal enterprise of Hamas has developed an entire syndicate to maintain and that includes a lot of mouths to feed on its payroll. 

The Islamic terrorists paid by Hamas are the same Islamic terrorists who won’t tolerate their welfare payments being scaled back. 
*


Report: Hamas demands $5 million

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/265262*

Hamas reportedly demanding that $5 million of the monthly Qatari grant go towards the salaries of its employees in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Yesterday’s truce with the Islamic terrorists didn’t go so well, so, there’s every reason to expect today’s truce will be better, right?



*Israel, Hamas reach truce after incendiary balloons spread fire in southern Israel

*
Politicians reacted with criticism and dismay in response to some 30 fires, including 17 substantial ones, ignited by devices flown from Gaza.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 ​⁜→  Hollie,  et al,

Any person commits an offence within the meaning of the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death,serious bodily injury or substantial material damage, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility: 

a.  With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or 

b.  With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​
Any person that also commits an offense if that person attempts to commit an offense as set forth in the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing of the present article. 

Any person also commits an offense if that person: 

a.  Participates as an accomplice in an offence; or 

b.  Organizes or directs others to commit an offence; or 

c.  In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences;​
Any person also commits an offense if they make such a contribution with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offense or offenses concerned.

This Convention shall enter into force on the thirtieth day following the date of the deposit of thetwenty-second instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession with the Secretary-General of theUnited Nations. (A/RES/52/1649 January 1998)​


Hollie said:


> Yesterday’s truce with the Islamic terrorists didn’t go so well, so, there’s every reason to expect today’s truce will be better, right?
> *Israel, Hamas reach truce after incendiary balloons spread fire in southern Israel*
> Politicians reacted with criticism and dismay in response to some 30 fires, including 17 substantial ones, ignited by devices flown from Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

As I'm sure that I mentioned before, the mere fact that on a daily basis, at any time the International Criminal Court or the International Court of Justice, may look over the border and observe the Arab Palestinians engaging in criminal act define as terrorism as well as the violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL)>

Having said that, it is clear that under the Counterterrorism Convention cited above, what the Arab Palestinians are doing is also a violation of the *Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons* (1980 Protocol III) _(AKA: The Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons)_.

I find it extraordinary that the United Nations (UN), the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the International Criminal Court (ICC), and the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) have, for months, openly observed  the Hostile Arab Palestinian act that is unequivocally illegal, and remain totally silent.  Yet, these three international agencies have spent millions and millions of dollars, and used a forest of trees, to condemn Israel of wrongful.  

None of these agencies, or the States for which they represent, have any room to talk about Israel, not at all.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since 2014, the PA Ministry of Finance had been publishing an annual anticipated budget in the first part of the year as well as monthly reports of actual expenditures in each budget category. Based on the PA's 2018 monthly reports, Palestinian Media Watch was able to expose that the PA spent at least 502 million shekels on salaries and other benefits to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners in 2018. A short time later the Israeli government announced that in order not to fund PA terror support, it was deducting the 502 million shekel from the tax transfers to the PA, divided into 12 monthly deductions of 42 million shekels.

Having understood that the financial transparency was used by PMW and then the Israeli government to see the precise amount the PA was spending to reward terrorist prisoners, the PA decided to hide these figures from the international community. The website of the PA Ministry of Finance, in place of the financial reports now has this announcement: 

*"Due to the contingency law and legal dependencies with the Israeli side,*
*the financial reports were temporarily suspended."

(full article online)*

Why is the PA suddenly hiding its financial expenditures? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

It will be interesting (although I suspect predictable), to see where this goes. I think it’s more symbolic as the UN has no practical means of enforcement even if the sun rose from the east and the UN ruled in favor of Israel. Aside from that, I wouldn’t expect the UN to issue any opinion favorable to Israel. The only action that Israel can take to affect the behavior of the Islamic terrorists is swift and punishing retaliation in response to attacks. 
*
*

*
In UN appeal, southern Israelis to accuse Hamas of violating their human rights*

Local residents look to issue a plea to international body after repeated, unofficial ceasefire deals fail to achieve peace while arson attacks continue.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Three years ago today, a 17-year-old Palestinian terrorist murdered 13-year-old Hallel Yaffa Ariel while she slept in her bed. The terrorist was killed by Israeli security personnel at the scene.

Since the murder, the Palestinian Authority has paid the family over 50,000 shekels, just because their son murdered an Israeli 13-year-old girl and died a “Martyr” as they call it.  

A substantial part of the PA’s "Pay for Slay" program is to pay the families of dead terrorists a monthly allowance. Since being elected as Chairman of the PA in 2005, Mahmoud Abbas has repeatedly approved increasing the monthly allowances paid to the families of dead terrorists. Currently, the PA pays such families at least 1,400 shekels/month, with additions for terrorists who were married, terrorists who had children and terrorists who lived in Jerusalem or other parts of Israel.   






The different institutions headed by Abbas have all referred to the murderer as a “_Shahid_” (Martyr) - the highest honor achievable in Islam according to the Palestinian Authority.

Reporting on the murder, both the PA’s official daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_ and WAFA, the official PA news agency, referred to the murderer as a “_Shahid_,” as did PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi. 

Also honoring the murderer, Fatah immediately posted his picture on Facebook, declaring him a “Martyr.”

The murderer’s mother expressed her pride in her son, stating that “My son is a hero. He made me proud.” She also encouraged other young Palestinians to carry out similar murders:

(full article online)

For 3 years, the PA has paid family of murderer of a 13-year-old Israeli girl - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

More Palestinian cartoons against US, Israel and Gulf states ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

From the Islamic terrorist handbook of “_How to win friends and influence people”
_
Arab governments must be thrilled at being threatened. Maybe more will follow Jordan’s lead and understand that segregating Pal’istanians is in their interest 




*Fatah Militants Threaten Bahrain Workshop Participants: We Still Remember Black September, Our Gun is Capable of Roaming Arab Capitals*

Video at the link:
"Fatah Militants Threaten Bahrain Workshop Participants: We Still Remember Black September, Our Gun is Capable of Roaming Arab Capitals"


----------



## Hollie

Maybe on the way to interrogation, he’ll fall down a flight of stairs... repeatedly. 
*

Palestinian forces arrest participant in US Mideast workshop*

Palestinian forces arrest participant in US Mideast workshop

ISABEL DEBRE
Associated PressJune 29, 2019
JERUSALEM (AP) — The Palestinian Authority on Saturday arrested one of the few Palestinian participants in the White House-led Mideast peace conference after he returned to the West Bank.

A Palestinian security official said intelligence forces detained businessman Saleh Abu Mayala in the city of Hebron for interrogation, without elaborating on the reason for the arrest.


----------



## Hollie

It's so nice when islamic theocratic totalitarians and dictators can find common ground. How typucal, however, that these Death Cultists are quick to embrace the "revolution" slogan when their power grabs bring only dictatorial rule, suppression or elimination of human rights and the imposition of an oppressive patriarchy of angry, pious islamists.


Hamas member details long history of Iranian financial, political support


Middle East
17:16 | 07/01/19

HAMAS MEMBER DETAILS LONG HISTORY OF IRANIAN FINANCIAL, POLITICAL SUPPORT
By TZVI JOFFRE
_





Hamas PM Ismail Haniyeh arrives in Tehran Iran 390 (R). (photo credit:" REUTERS/Morteza Nikoubazl)
"Since it's inception, the Iranian Islamic Revolution has been building a special relationship with the parties of the Palestinian revolution."_


----------



## Hollie

It would be rewarding to see the Brits assign the same Islamic terrorist designation to Hamas as they do Hezbollah. 

 Islamic terrorism operates under many names. Islamic Jihad, Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah (Hamas), Abu Sayyaf, Tanzim Qa'idat Al-Jihad in Bilad al-Rafidayn (al-Qaeda in Iraq), Hizbullah, Al-Ikhwan Al-Moslemoon (the Muslim Brotherhood), and countless others. Whatever name you call them, it always means the same thing: Kill the infidels (and more often than not – moslems) who stand between Islam and its delusions of world supremacy 

The names they operate under are subordinate to the cause of their ideology. That ideology, of course, is gee-had—warfare to expand the dominion of Muhammud’s religion, as elucidated in the hate and war manual known as the Koran.. 




*Outlaw Hamas in Britain'*
Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan hosts British Home Secretary, asks him to outlaw Hamas as Britain did with Hezbollah.

'Outlaw Hamas in Britain'

Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan met on Monday with British Home Secretary Sajid Javid.

The two discussed cooperation on issues related to counter-terrorism as well as the fight against anti-Semitism and BDS.


----------



## Hollie

The usual rant from one of the more excitable franchises of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. _



Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists


“The Muslim Brotherhood condemns all forms of normalization with the Zionist enemy, and all the actions leading up to the Zionist-American deal, and confirms that all Arab regimes involved in the ‘Deal of the Century’ are anti-Arab peoples and traitors to the Palestinian cause,” the Muslim Brotherhood saidon its Facebook page Tuesday. “The Arab and Islamic people’s position will remain firm in support of the Palestinian cause, not recognized by the Zionist entity.”


_The Zionist Entity™️_


----------



## Sixties Fan

“There are thousands” of willing murderers - PA leaders implicitly threaten more terror against Israel - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

The equally longstanding and self-serving Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, who lauded Saddam Hussein for “standing up for Arab rights, Arab dignity, Arab pride” following Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, and notoriously opposed the historic Oslo Accords because they recognized Israel, called the Bahrain conference “delusional, irresponsible” and “an insult to our intelligence”.



Ashrawi has a Sydney Peace Prize to her name and the adoration of Bob Carr and parts of the global left, but not a single, tangible legislative or diplomatic achievement in three decades of public life.



The petulant refusal of the Palestinian leadership to even consider a proposal intended to offer ordinary Palestinian Arabs an alternative to war, conflict and victimhood is a betrayal and a crime but is impeccably consistent with earlier Palestinian responses to international efforts aimed at giving them statehood.



When in 1937 the British first proposed resolving competing Jewish and Arab claims to the land through partition and the creation of a first-ever independent Arab Palestinian state, alongside a Jewish state on just 4 per cent of the British Mandate territory, the reaction of the Palestinian leadership was an outright “no”, backed by widespread violence and calls for the “liberation of the country and establishment of an Arab government”.

When the UN held consultations throughout the country in 1947, again seeking to mediate peacefully rival claims to the land, the Arab leaders boycotted the proceedings.

Periodically, some Palestinian Arab leaders have admitted that their strategy of boycott backed by violence has been utterly ruinous. Palestinian jurist Henry Cattan admitted the 1947 boycott had been “unfortunate”.

Palestinian unionist Majdi Shella admitted the Palestinians “have a long tradition of boycotting everything. Sometimes boycotting is the easier road. If you want to do nothing, boycott.”


Yet the Palestinians have refined their instinct for rejection and political self-immolation to such an extent that they appear to know no other path.


This is why Palestinian rioters destroyed greenhouses left to them by the Israelis following the unilateral Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005.


This is why last year Palestinians in Gaza set fire to the Kerem Shalom border crossing through which medicine, aid and consumer products intended for the Palestinians are transferred.
(full article online)

If only the Palestinian leadership really wished for peace


----------



## Hollie

Awww, they're so cute when they launch themselves into saliva-slinging tirades which include the “opened the gates of Hell..." slogans. 


*
Fatah members threaten to ‘hunt down’ Bahrain conference participants

*
They go on to say that they will strike with “an iron fist the necks of anyone” who sells out the Palestinian rights and anyone who participates in the Bahrain workshop. Those who attend the workshop, they say, have “opened the gates of Hell on themselves.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The equally longstanding and self-serving Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, who lauded Saddam Hussein for “standing up for Arab rights, Arab dignity, Arab pride” following Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, and notoriously opposed the historic Oslo Accords because they recognized Israel, called the Bahrain conference “delusional, irresponsible” and “an insult to our intelligence”.
> 
> 
> 
> Ashrawi has a Sydney Peace Prize to her name and the adoration of Bob Carr and parts of the global left, but not a single, tangible legislative or diplomatic achievement in three decades of public life.
> 
> 
> 
> The petulant refusal of the Palestinian leadership to even consider a proposal intended to offer ordinary Palestinian Arabs an alternative to war, conflict and victimhood is a betrayal and a crime but is impeccably consistent with earlier Palestinian responses to international efforts aimed at giving them statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> When in 1937 the British first proposed resolving competing Jewish and Arab claims to the land through partition and the creation of a first-ever independent Arab Palestinian state, alongside a Jewish state on just 4 per cent of the British Mandate territory, the reaction of the Palestinian leadership was an outright “no”, backed by widespread violence and calls for the “liberation of the country and establishment of an Arab government”.
> 
> When the UN held consultations throughout the country in 1947, again seeking to mediate peacefully rival claims to the land, the Arab leaders boycotted the proceedings.
> 
> Periodically, some Palestinian Arab leaders have admitted that their strategy of boycott backed by violence has been utterly ruinous. Palestinian jurist Henry Cattan admitted the 1947 boycott had been “unfortunate”.
> 
> Palestinian unionist Majdi Shella admitted the Palestinians “have a long tradition of boycotting everything. Sometimes boycotting is the easier road. If you want to do nothing, boycott.”
> 
> 
> Yet the Palestinians have refined their instinct for rejection and political self-immolation to such an extent that they appear to know no other path.
> 
> 
> This is why Palestinian rioters destroyed greenhouses left to them by the Israelis following the unilateral Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005.
> 
> This is why last year Palestinians in Gaza set fire to the Kerem Shalom border crossing through which medicine, aid and consumer products intended for the Palestinians are transferred.
> (full article online)
> 
> If only the Palestinian leadership really wished for peace


*PLO official Hanan Ashrawi explains why Palestinians oppose US Middle East plan*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The equally longstanding and self-serving Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, who lauded Saddam Hussein for “standing up for Arab rights, Arab dignity, Arab pride” following Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, and notoriously opposed the historic Oslo Accords because they recognized Israel, called the Bahrain conference “delusional, irresponsible” and “an insult to our intelligence”.
> 
> 
> 
> Ashrawi has a Sydney Peace Prize to her name and the adoration of Bob Carr and parts of the global left, but not a single, tangible legislative or diplomatic achievement in three decades of public life.
> 
> 
> 
> The petulant refusal of the Palestinian leadership to even consider a proposal intended to offer ordinary Palestinian Arabs an alternative to war, conflict and victimhood is a betrayal and a crime but is impeccably consistent with earlier Palestinian responses to international efforts aimed at giving them statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> When in 1937 the British first proposed resolving competing Jewish and Arab claims to the land through partition and the creation of a first-ever independent Arab Palestinian state, alongside a Jewish state on just 4 per cent of the British Mandate territory, the reaction of the Palestinian leadership was an outright “no”, backed by widespread violence and calls for the “liberation of the country and establishment of an Arab government”.
> 
> When the UN held consultations throughout the country in 1947, again seeking to mediate peacefully rival claims to the land, the Arab leaders boycotted the proceedings.
> 
> Periodically, some Palestinian Arab leaders have admitted that their strategy of boycott backed by violence has been utterly ruinous. Palestinian jurist Henry Cattan admitted the 1947 boycott had been “unfortunate”.
> 
> Palestinian unionist Majdi Shella admitted the Palestinians “have a long tradition of boycotting everything. Sometimes boycotting is the easier road. If you want to do nothing, boycott.”
> 
> 
> Yet the Palestinians have refined their instinct for rejection and political self-immolation to such an extent that they appear to know no other path.
> 
> 
> This is why Palestinian rioters destroyed greenhouses left to them by the Israelis following the unilateral Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005.
> 
> This is why last year Palestinians in Gaza set fire to the Kerem Shalom border crossing through which medicine, aid and consumer products intended for the Palestinians are transferred.
> (full article online)
> 
> If only the Palestinian leadership really wished for peace
> 
> 
> 
> *PLO official Hanan Ashrawi explains why Palestinians oppose US Middle East plan*
Click to expand...


She’s a recipient of UNRWA welfare fraud money, right?


----------



## Hollie

Trying to weed whack through the landscape of Arab-Moslem governments is an exercise in fighting motion sickness. Among the non-functioning PLO, PLC, PNC and the alphabet soup of governments / agencies created to steal welfare fraud money, it is a bottomless pit of waste, mismanagement and fraud. 

I can’t imagine either of the Islamist dictatorships in Gaza or the West Bank are afraid of elections because neither of those mini-caliphates are going to upset the UNRWA welfare fraud status quo. 


*
Palestinians: “Hamas Is Not Afraid of Elections”
*
Hamas leaders have responded by welcoming the initiative to hold new elections. The leaders saythey are not afraid of elections: they are confident that their movement will win.

Hamas leaders are clearly hoping that if and when new elections are held, they would facilitate its takeover of the Palestinian Authority (PA) presidency and the Palestinian Legislative Council.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ 

Yes!  And American should not give a damn either.  They are terminally ill nation → no better than a failure at statehood.



Hollie said:


> → Hamas leaders have responded by welcoming the initiative to hold new elections. The leaders say they are not afraid of elections: they are confident that their movement will win. →
> 
> → Hamas leaders are clearly hoping that if and when new elections are held, they would facilitate its takeover of the Palestinian Authority (PA) presidency and the Palestinian Legislative Council.


*(COMMENT)*

Americans should in nearly all matters → approach the Arab Palestinian with extreme caution and very slowly → so as not to startle them. 

◈  Introduce yourself carefully and with a quiet voice. “Hi, Achmed the Dead Terrorist!"   "I would like to use you for a while →  as a training target.”  Remember, from the age six and up, they are trained in the way of the suicide vest.  So you should use an overwatch with a M24 (SWS) firing SAR6-028API High-Explosive Armor-Piercing-Incendiary 7.62—51mm; and a mounted NXS 5.5 – 22x50 MILR.

◈  If you want, hold the person’s hand.  →  Start by telling the person what you are doing. “Achmed, I am going to hold your hand now.”   This will help the overwatch to engage.

◈  If you have a specific Congressional Letter of Marque and Reprisal under Article I • Section 8(11) • of the US Constitution → read it softly.​
The End.

OK, me bad_!_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

More or the expected "cultural proclivities" derived from adherents to an identifiable politico-religious ideology.  

While it may be convenient to argue that the views expressed by the deep thinker Marwan are "extremist",  we can also make a case that these fine folks are just pious Arabs-Moslems who know their Koran and Sunnah (and their built-in Jew hatreds), and are following in the literal ideological footsteps of their "prophet" as the model for all Moslems for all time.



Hamas MP Marwan Abu Ras said in a June 23, 2019 show on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) that the Jews have been abhorred throughout history and that Hitler wanted to get rid of them because their "deeds and crimes" made him hate them. He added that everything people say about the Holocaust is a lie.


Video here:
"Hamas MP Marwan Abu Ras: Hitler Hated the Jews Because of Their Crimes; Everything Said about the Holocaust Is a Lie" 





It's as though these fine folks spend every waking moment of their miserable lives seeking out ways to buttress their hate / self-hate.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→
> 
> Yes!  And American should not give a damn either.  They are terminally ill nation → no better than a failure at statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> → Hamas leaders have responded by welcoming the initiative to hold new elections. The leaders say they are not afraid of elections: they are confident that their movement will win. →
> 
> → Hamas leaders are clearly hoping that if and when new elections are held, they would facilitate its takeover of the Palestinian Authority (PA) presidency and the Palestinian Legislative Council.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Americans should in nearly all matters → approach the Arab Palestinian with extreme caution and very slowly → so as not to startle them.
> 
> ◈  Introduce yourself carefully and with a quiet voice. “Hi, Achmed the Dead Terrorist!"   "I would like to use you for a while →  as a training target.”  Remember, from the age six and up, they are trained in the way of the suicide vest.  So you should use an overwatch with a M24 (SWS) firing SAR6-028API High-Explosive Armor-Piercing-Incendiary 7.62—51mm; and a mounted NXS 5.5 – 22x50 MILR.
> 
> ◈  If you want, hold the person’s hand.  →  Start by telling the person what you are doing. “Achmed, I am going to hold your hand now.”   This will help the overwatch to engage.
> 
> ◈  If you have a specific Congressional Letter of Marque and Reprisal under Article I • Section 8(11) • of the US Constitution → read it softly.​
> The End.
> 
> OK, me bad_!_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Might I suggest we amend your first bullet point, (snark), and substitute an AI-AX chambered in .300 WM fitted with an S&B 5-25x56? Those speedy 230 gr. projectiles are, umm, persuasive.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose Hamas was anticipating they would end the current Hudna when their psychopath had completed preparations for his Jew killing gee-had. 

The holy warriors of hamas and all other gee-had groups are simply pious Moslems who know their Koranology and who are following the book to the letter. 


*
Israel Detains Hamas Terrorist Who Snuck Into Israel and Tried Creating Bomb Factory
*
JERUSALEM, Israel - Israel's Security Agency, better known as Shin Bet, says it arrested a Hamas terrorist who managed to infiltrate Israel under the guise of a humanitarian permit with the goal of setting up an explosives factory.

Shin Bet says Fadi Abu al-Sabah, 35, was recruited and trained by Hamas in July 2018 to be an explosives expert and commit terror attacks against Israelis.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday I noted that Palestinians were saying that Jews who were reverently and quietly praying on the Temple Mount were "desecrating Al Aqsa."

Obviously, treating a holy place with respect isn't desecration.

However, StandWithUs tweeted a photo that is one of desecration:

Back in time: #Jerusalem during Jordanian occupation before Israel reunited the city on June 5, 1967: when Jordan destroyed the entire Jewish Quarter of the Old City, including 52 synagogues. Pictured is a Jordanian soldier standing on the remains of Hurva Synagogue. pic.twitter.com/G7qda8GFye
— StandWithUs (@StandWithUs) July 3, 2019

Let's look closer at the photo:




The Jordanian soldier is inside the main sanctuary of the destroyed Hurva synagogue. You can see the mural of the Ten Commandments behind him.

And he is posing triumphantly holding an unrolled Torah Scroll, splayed across the rubble.

This is what desecration of a holy site, and holy object, looks like.

(full article online)

This is what desecration looks like ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A senior Palestinian official Monday condemned the participation of US envoys in the unveiling of an archaeological site in East Jerusalem and scoffed at the “fake” account of Jewish history attributed to the subterranean road.

Saeb Erekat said he believed the tunnel was a project being used by Israeli right-wingers to further Israel’s claim on East Jerusalem and advance settlement growth there.

“It has nothing to do with religion, it is fake,” he told journalists at his office in Ramallah in the West Bank.

He cited reports by two Israeli NGOs questioning the archaeological methods used.

One of the organizations, Peace Now, also says cracks emerged in multiple houses in Silwan after the digging began.

Erekat said: “It’s a settlement project. It’s based on a lie that has nothing to do with history."This is a person regarded as a "moderate." This is a person that was a lead negotiator for, ahem, "peace."

And this is a person who is actually more reasonable than most other Palestinian leaders!

"Questioning archaeological methods" does not mean that the road discovered that leads up to the Temple Mount is not real. It was clearly used by hundreds of thousands of Jewish pilgrims to visit the Second Temple. No archaeologist in the world denies this.

But Saeb Erekat does.

Which means that (yet again) Erekat is proven to be a liar. You literally cannot believe a word he says.

The Western media, unfortunately, doesn't hold him to the same standards that any Western politician would be held to when they are shown to be knowingly lying. On the contrary, they are eager to interview him. The Forward published an op-ed from this liar just this week (claiming that the US supports "Greater Israel" based on the Bahrain workshop that didn't talk about politics or borders at all.)

A number of years ago, Erekat issued a quote referring to Israel's prime minister, with a saying I never heard and couldn't find anywhere else. Perhaps it is an Arabic saying, but it is clearly Saeb Erakat's personal motto:

 “There’s a saying that if you don’t stop a man who is lying after 24 hours, the lies turn into facts."
-----------------

[ Sixties Fan:  this saying possibly being badly repeated by Erakat.  It is probably Goebbles' saying that if one repeats a lie long enough.... :
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." 

(full article online)

Saeb Erekat calls archaeology fake and says Jewish history is a lie ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

DNA evidence shows Philistines originated in Europe


Know thine enemy: DNA study solves ancient riddle of origins of the Philistines


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Surprise, surprise, surprise.....to some ]

Far-left and Arab activists spotted participating in and in some cases leading the riots sparked by death of Ethiopian teenager.

Are the 'Ethiopian protests' really led by Ethiopians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gotta keep those "Pay for Slay" payments coming.  "Kill a Jew" ]

Armed members of Palestinian Authority threaten Arab countries who joined Bahrain Peace Summit


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/ey...nto-israel-on-humanitarian-permit/2019/07/03/


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Gotta keep those "Pay for Slay" payments coming.  "Kill a Jew" ]
> 
> Armed members of Palestinian Authority threaten Arab countries who joined Bahrain Peace Summit



Disgusting.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Suheib Yousef, son of Hamas co-founder and brother of ‘Green Prince’ who secretly worked for Shin Bet, opens up to Israeli TV after also fleeing group; urges his father to resign

(full article online)

Second ‘son of Hamas’ leaves terror group, exposing corruption, Turkish spy ring


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Suheib Yousef, son of Hamas co-founder and brother of ‘Green Prince’ who secretly worked for Shin Bet, opens up to Israeli TV after also fleeing group; urges his father to resign
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Second ‘son of Hamas’ leaves terror group, exposing corruption, Turkish spy ring



Somewhere, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit.


----------



## Hollie

It’s summer fun time again. For many of that means, or has meant, summer camping, canoeing, vacations, time away with friends for travel and yes, learning the ways of hate / self-hate in an Islamic terrorist training camp where the next generation of psychopaths is being groomed.



Video here:
"Palestinian Children Burn U.S. Flag, Pictures of Trump in PA-Run Summer Camp That Integrates Children with Special Needs"


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Gotta keep those "Pay for Slay" payments coming.  "Kill a Jew" ]
> 
> Armed members of Palestinian Authority threaten Arab countries who joined Bahrain Peace Summit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disgusting.
Click to expand...


Also incredibly stupid.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is doing their best to, as the saying goes, put lipstick on a pig, but another Hamas jr. terrorist has broken ranks with the Death Cult.



Hamas on advocacy blitz to counter Israeli TV expose of internal corruption


Terror group launches public display of support for co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef after his son reveals his disillusionment with organization

Today, 3:01 am  

Hamas fighters take part in a military maneuver in Gaza City on March 25, 2018. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)

The Gaza-based Hamas terror group has launched an expansive effort to counter an Israeli television news interview with the son of one of the terror group’s founding fathers in which he accused the organization of being corrupt and power hungry, Channel 12 news reported Thursday, a day after it broadcast the interview.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my.


Son of Hamas leader calls the militant movement a ‘racist terror organization’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c9f84e-9e42-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html


----------



## Hollie

Uh oh. They’re on to us.

It does seem that Arab-Moslem totalitarians will always to look elsewhere for the source of their failures. I cannot make excuses for a theocratic code of law that calls for: the hanging or stoning to death of sexually active women and homosexuals; imparting to a woman half the value of one man; flogging someone for having a beer; requiring Jews and Christians to live as second class citizens; and so much more. Sadly, in the Arab/Moslem world, theocratic totalitarianism is thought to be the natural alternative to western style representative democracy. I find it increasingly difficult to hope that Arabs-Moslems may one day manage to find leaders who are not their own worst enemy, I’m just reality challenged.



Who is responsible for the Arab Spring? Fatah officials blame US

The Palestinian Media Watch watchdog organization highlighted in a report several recent instances in which Fatah officials blame the US - and in some cases Israel - for weakening the Arab states.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Still wondering what they are after? ]

Kids at Palestinian Authority summer camp burning American flags before July 4 (plus repost of "Hello Martyr, Hello Fatah" video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Cartoon of the Day: BDS success ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Interesting to note that the rivalries separating the competing Islamic terrorist franchises are as contentious as always. 




Hamas: There is progress with Israel, challenges may harm the calm

Members of Hamas told the Lebanese paper Al-Akhbar that "The number of merchants permitted to pass through the Erez crossing to the West Bank increased and the flow of fuel continues."

The Egyptian security delegation delayed its visit to the Gaza Strip for the fourth consecutive time despite it being in Israel since Wednesday.

The delegation's representatives did not specify the reason for the delay, but according to estimations, the delay is mostly due to a negative response from Fatah and from the Palestinian Authority regarding internal Palestinian reconciliation.


----------



## Hollie

The latest ceasefire with the Islamic terrorists looked suspiciously like the war time conditions with the Islamic terrorist gee-had attacks at the border. 



7,000 protest on Gaza border after latest understandings between Israel, Hamas

7,000 protest on Gaza border after latest understandings between Israel, Hamas

Army says some burn tires, hurl rocks and explosive devices at soldiers; Hamas-run health ministry says 40 injured by IDF response; 2 Palestinians nabbed crossing border with knife


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had rolls on in that little corner of the world where psychopaths are a generational norm.

Islam's gee-had is a matter of historical record. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly murder unarmed civilians en masse. 



“*There are thousands” of willing murderers *
*- PA leaders implicitly threaten more terror against Israel*
*
“There are thousands” of willing murderers - PA leaders implicitly threaten more terror against Israel - PMW Bulletins*






*Abbas' deputy in response to US-led Bahrain Conference: "There are thousands" like Omar Abu Laila - murderer of 2 Israelis*

*Fatah official: We “will continue to provide more Martyrs and prisoners”*


----------



## Hollie

Hamas: There is progress with Israel, challenges may harm the calm


Why, yes. There certainly are challenges that the Israeli’s must respond to.

The Islamic terrorist gee-had is one such challenge. 

Thousands of Gazans protest along border fence for weekly riots


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hamas: There is progress with Israel, challenges may harm the calm
> 
> 
> Why, yes. There certainly are challenges that the Israeli’s must respond to.
> 
> The Islamic terrorist gee-had is one such challenge.
> 
> Thousands of Gazans protest along border fence for weekly riots



Was there a ceasefire? What are the terms?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas: There is progress with Israel, challenges may harm the calm
> 
> 
> Why, yes. There certainly are challenges that the Israeli’s must respond to.
> 
> The Islamic terrorist gee-had is one such challenge.
> 
> Thousands of Gazans protest along border fence for weekly riots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was there a ceasefire? What are the terms?
Click to expand...


The Islamic gee-had recognizes only a Hudna, no ceasefire.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jew-Hater Linda Sarsour Hijacks Jesus to Push False "Palestine" Narrative


----------



## Hollie

Another of the politburo mouthpieces for Islamic terrorism, Hamas franchise, is making blustering claims about expanding their conflict with Israel. 

What he means is that Hamas and Islamic gee-had have Iranian welfare money and are thus beholden to the Shiacrats. What “al” doesn’t understand is that the Iranian mullahs want nothing more than to see a pile of dead Sunni holy warriors. 

The blood feud that divides the Shia and Sunni is a contemptuous rivalry that dates back to the death of the man-god they worship.  



*Hamas threatens to expand conflict with Israel*
Senior Hamas official praises military coordination between Hamas and Islamic Jihad, threatens to expand conflict with Israel.

Hamas threatens to expand conflict with Israel

Dalit Halevi,  05/07/19 04:08







Reuters: Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau, said on Thursday that the Palestinian “resistance organizations” had recently increased their strength and are preparing to expand the conflict with Israel.

Speaking at the closing ceremony of an Islamic Jihad summer camp in Gaza, al-Hayya said the organizations are unfazed by the threats made by Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and are adhering to the path of resistance


----------



## Hollie

While waiting for their welfare checks, some of the usual islamic terrorist social norms. 


*
5,000 Palestinians riot on Israel-Gaza border, 3 infiltrators detained
*
5,000 Palestinians riot on Israel-Gaza border, 3 infiltrators detained
 July 6, 2019


----------



## Hollie

We’re seeing an interesting dynamic in some of the previously unexpected locations in the Arab-Moslem world. There are a lot of self-serving interests to be placated but seeing the Saudi’s defend Israel is really interesting. Possibly a case of “the lesser of two evils” from the Saudi perspective, but increasingly, Israel is (grudgingly), viewed as more an ally of the Arab-Moslem world as opposed to an ideological enemy. The “enemy” status is being directed at Shia Iran which clearly has designs to supplant Sunni influence in the region. 

What’s next, a Synagogue in Riyadh?





*Some journalists in Riyadh are defending Israeli actions against Palestinians and their allies, even rejecting the two-state solution.*

*Saudi journalists pray for Israel during Ramadan*

Some prominent Saudi journalists have come out to defend Israeli aggression towards Palestinians, calling the Palestinian group Hamas "murderers and agents of Iran" and also expressing their sympathy with the Zionist state. 

"Our hearts are with you. May Allah protect Israel and its people," prominent Saudi journalist and former director of the Jeddah-based Middle East Center for Strategic and Legal Studies, Abd al Hamid al Hakim, wrote on Twitter. 

The Saudi-led Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) is no longer secretive about its pro-Israel stance. Instead its member state Oman hosted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last year. The visit coincided with the visit of Israeli far-right Minister Miri Regev to the UAE, another GCC member state.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Work accident! Rocket explodes on the ground, killing a Gaza terrorist ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

One of the primary imperatives in the maintenance of totalitarianism is to create an external enemy. This allows the totalitarian oppressor a means to deflect their failures and inadequacies onto others. Hamas as the totalitarian oppressor has _The Zionist Entity_™️ as their external enemy. 

Hamas also understands that any change to the status quo will directly and negatively affect the welfare fraud entitlement / criminal enterprise syndicate that has made fortunes for those at the tip of the pyramid. 



Hamas struggles to hold on to power five years after Gaza war

Hamas leaders appear to be well aware that under the current circumstances it’s almost impossible to reach any deal with Abbas and Fatah.

Five years after Operation Protective Edge, Hamas remains as defiant as ever, and there are no signs that its rule over the Gaza Strip is facing any real challenges.

Hamas has only one thing on mind: holding on to power.


----------



## Hollie

It seems that Hamas is getting more reactionary and more delusional as they see their Islamic terrorist crime syndicate / welfare fraud entitlement in danger. 
*
*

*Hamas: We eroded Israel's deterrence*

Terrorist organization make clear they will never agree to the solutions presented by the US to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


----------



## Hollie

It's so nice when islamic terrorist psychopaths get together to share their psychopathy. 

Such are pious Moslems following the traditions of the man-god they worship.
*

Fatah and Palestinian Authority glorify and support terrorists: The case of Omar Abu Layla, who murdered two Israelis near Ariel*
Published: 07/07/2019

Abbas Zaki, a member of Fatah’s Central Committee, recently presented an award to the family of Omar Abu Layla, who carried out a shooting attack and a stabbing attack near Ariel (killing two Israelis, a soldier and a civilian).


----------



## Hollie

The anti gee-had rolls on. As a means to thwart the islamic terrorist entity from using kuffar innovated technology to wage gee-had, the Israelis' have developed technology that allows interception / capture of the radio signal thus allowing the Islamo-drones to be redirected.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.jpos...-Israel-stop-Hamas-drones-Analysis-594969/amp

Israel News

17:12 | 07/08/19
_Hamas has sent drones into Israel in the past, leading the IDF to scramble jets or fire missiles in order to down the aerial vehicle. But such options are extremely expensive.

DROM Done Defense Systems produced by ORAD, an Israeli company based in the city of Holon,can detect approaching drones at over 3.5 kilometers and take over the UAV’s piloting abilities, neutralize them and land them far from the operator._


----------



## Sixties Fan

The increasingly popular Twitter account called @Imshin disseminates videos, blog posts, and news from the middle-class and wealthy world of the Gaza Strip that never make it into the mainstream media.

(full article online)

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/265683


----------



## Hollie

Islamo-burrowing continues. Another enormous waste of welfare money that the international community can’t stop providing. 




https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/07/...hamas-attack-tunnel-under-israel-gaza-border/

Another attack tunnel was discovered under the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Monday.

According to Israeli news site Mako, civilian construction crews building an underground barrier along the border discovered the tunnel early in the morning and informed the IDF.


----------



## Hollie

In case anyone missed it, Pal Watch has a snappy video produced by Arab-Moslem psychopaths who spend their every waking moment consumed by self-hate and retrogression. 

“_We will strike, we will blow up [and] not hesitate” 
_
https://www.jns.org/hamas-music-video-celebrates-murder-of-jews/



Global warming coupled with a region of the planet that is a waste of oxygen.


----------



## Hollie

At some point, the competing mini-caliphates will need to resume their civil war and one tribe will need to oblitetate the other in order to settle their differences.

It should be a good show.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aawsat.com/english/home/article/1802046/fatah-official-blames-hamas-not-ending-divisions?amp

Fatah movement Central Committee member Azzam al-Ahmad accused the Hamas movement of not being serious about ending its rift with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank.

Ahmad noted that Egypt, who is acting as a mediator to broker peace between warring Palestinian parties, has proposed ideas to end the divisions arising from differences regarding the implementation of the 2017 agreement signed with Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> At some point, the competing mini-caliphates will need to resume their civil war and one tribe will need to oblitetate the other in order to settle their differences.
> 
> It should be a good show.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aawsat.com/english/home/article/1802046/fatah-official-blames-hamas-not-ending-divisions?amp
> 
> Fatah movement Central Committee member Azzam al-Ahmad accused the Hamas movement of not being serious about ending its rift with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank.
> 
> Ahmad noted that Egypt, who is acting as a mediator to broker peace between warring Palestinian parties, has proposed ideas to end the divisions arising from differences regarding the implementation of the 2017 agreement signed with Hamas.


You don't know anything about it.

Why do you keep blabbering on?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> At some point, the competing mini-caliphates will need to resume their civil war and one tribe will need to oblitetate the other in order to settle their differences.
> 
> It should be a good show.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aawsat.com/english/home/article/1802046/fatah-official-blames-hamas-not-ending-divisions?amp
> 
> Fatah movement Central Committee member Azzam al-Ahmad accused the Hamas movement of not being serious about ending its rift with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank.
> 
> Ahmad noted that Egypt, who is acting as a mediator to broker peace between warring Palestinian parties, has proposed ideas to end the divisions arising from differences regarding the implementation of the 2017 agreement signed with Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know anything about it.
> 
> Why do you keep blabbering on?
Click to expand...


Your usual lashing out like a petulant child. You're frustrated because you can't find a handy YouTube video?

I could help educate you but your silly one-liners and cut and paste cartoons don't represent an argument.


----------



## Hollie

Inside The Ties Between Anti-Israel BDS Groups And Palestinian Terror Orgs

*Inside The Ties Between Anti-Israel BDS Groups And Palestinian Terror Orgs*
May 9th, 2019
_





A masked Palestinian militant of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is pictured. (PFLP) MAHMUD HAMS/AFP/Getty Images)

*Several groups active in the BDS movement have ties to Palestinian terrorist organizations, an investigation by The Daily Caller News Foundation found.*
*BDS groups have coordinated with terrorist groups and promoted their leaders, according to TheDCNF’s investigation.*
*Leaders of the group Samidoun, whose U.S. coordinator recently met with Rep. Rashida Tlaib, are members of the terrorist group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), according to the PFLP. *
Several groups in the anti-Israel boycott, divest and sanction (BDS) movement operating in the United States have ties to Palestinian groups on the U.S. State Department’s list of designated terrorist organizations, a Daily Caller News Foundation investigation has found.
_


----------



## Hollie

PayPal among online payment platforms that shut down services to BDS group with terror links

NEWS
*PayPal among online payment platforms that shut down services to BDS group with terror links*
Samidoun is a North American-based NGO with a wide network of ties with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a designated terrorist group, both in the United States and across Europe.
BY SEAN SAVAGE




Supporters of Samidoun, a Palestinian BDS group that advocates for prisoners, hold a rally. Credit: Samidoun via Facebook.


(May 15, 2019 / JNS) PayPal has joined other major online payment systems in shutting down services to the BDS group Samidoun, which has close ties with Palestinian terror groups.

Over the last several weeks, the International Legal Forum, along with the Zionist Advocacy Centre, successfully petitioned PayPal, along with Donorbox and Plaid, to shut down financial services to Samidoun.


----------



## Hollie

In case anyone missed it, the Islamic terrorists held another fashion parade in Gaza’istan. 

As is the case with these media photo-ops, the Islamic terrorists rolled out their military style uniforms and goose stepped their way around the block. 

Curious that these cowards aren’t wearing military uniforms at the border gee-had, preferring instead to use women and children as human shields. 




Hamas conducts massive surprise drill simulating IDF incursion into Gaza

Highly rare exercise appears linked to botched IDF special forces raid in November, comes a day after Israel located 18th attack tunnel under Gaza border
9 July 2019, 10:03 pm  0


----------



## Hollie

IDF downs drone (Courtesy: Youtube screenshot)

Israel Shoots down Hamas Aircraft

A UAV from Hamas controlled Gaza was shot down by Israel after it invaded Israel’s air space Ynet and the IDF Spokespersons unit reported.




Another day, another Islamic terrorist fail.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week:
" Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu has approved the measurement phase ahead of the construction of a huge 40-dunam international field hospital with 16 different departments near the Erez crossing, to be managed by an international medical team.

The Yediot Aharonot newspaper reports that the hospital will be funded by a private American organization and is meant to ensure a significant improvement and a response that is not currently available in the Gaza Strip to Palestinian Arab patients."


If Israel agrees to build a hospital to help Palestinians, you know what will happen next.

(full article online)

Palestinian leaders oppose a new hospital to help Gazans ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Last week:
> " Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu has approved the measurement phase ahead of the construction of a huge 40-dunam international field hospital with 16 different departments near the Erez crossing, to be managed by an international medical team.
> 
> The Yediot Aharonot newspaper reports that the hospital will be funded by a private American organization and is meant to ensure a significant improvement and a response that is not currently available in the Gaza Strip to Palestinian Arab patients."
> 
> 
> If Israel agrees to build a hospital to help Palestinians, you know what will happen next.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian leaders oppose a new hospital to help Gazans ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Why don't they just upgrade the existing hospitals in Gaza?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week:
> " Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu has approved the measurement phase ahead of the construction of a huge 40-dunam international field hospital with 16 different departments near the Erez crossing, to be managed by an international medical team.
> 
> The Yediot Aharonot newspaper reports that the hospital will be funded by a private American organization and is meant to ensure a significant improvement and a response that is not currently available in the Gaza Strip to Palestinian Arab patients."
> 
> 
> If Israel agrees to build a hospital to help Palestinians, you know what will happen next.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian leaders oppose a new hospital to help Gazans ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just upgrade the existing hospitals in Gaza?
Click to expand...


Money for the gee-had / paying islamic terrorists is a priority for the welfare fraud money.

PA to pay imprisoned and released terrorists in full, as it cuts pay for other employees


----------



## Hollie

Yeah, islamic terrorists have conferences. 

I suppose when your islamic terrorist franchise has suitcases full of Qatari welfare money to burn, you might as well waste it on pointless islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailing.



Sixth BDS National Conference and its Terror Ties - Brandeis Center

On March 16, the BDS National Committee hosted its sixth annual BDS National Conference in Ramallah. The conference, which received a statement of support from internationally recognized terrorist organizations such as Hamas, the Palestinian National and Islamic Forces (PNIF), and the People’s Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), was heavily attended by individuals associated with terrorism. Khitam Saafin, a leader in the PFLP, attended as a panelist for a workshop on BDS policy. Also in attendance was Abu Marsel Karaja, a member of the PFLP who has been arrested numerous times by Israeli security forces. Lastly, Dr. Wasel Abu Yousef, who currently acts as secretary of the PNIF in the West Bank, attended the conference as a speaker.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist moles have been busy. 

With the moles dying as the result of collapses and tunnels being flooded with sea water, it sure sounds like a good way to spend your welfare money. 




IDF: We’ve destroyed 18 Hamas terror tunnels, we’re now on this

The IDF has located and destroyed 18 terror tunnels since 2014, the report claimed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As far as I can tell, nothing has changed. Kids are smoking in schools, as are teachers (but generally not in front of students.)

Ironically, Hamas has implemented anti-smoking measures that are effective. While 26.9% of the West Bank Arab adults are smokers; only 14.6% in the Gaza Strip are.

To give an idea of how dysfunctional this PA government is, yesterday - after 14 years, the Ministry of Health finally decided to ban smoking in its own buildings.

The Health Ministry itself didn't bother to ban smoking in its own facilities until now!

This is only a single example among many about how incompetent the Palestinian Arab leaders are at actually running a government. These types of stories are unreported for whatever politically correct reason, but the fact remains. The EU comes in and spends hundreds of millions to teach them how to run a country and they do the minimum necessary to get that cash, but show little interest in pro-actively governing on their own. Sure, there are lots of committees and meetings but nothing to show for it.

One reason is that the government is a dictatorship, with Mahmoud Abbas controlling Fatah, the PA, the PLO, the cabinet and the judicial system. This is why the priorities are paying terrorists and opposing Israel in international venues as opposed to actually trying to build a state.

(full article online)


Just how dysfunctional is the Palestinian Authority? The story of a 2005 anti-smoking law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Ok, a rhetorical question.


Would you name a kids’ summer camp after a murderer?

Would you name a kids’ summer camp after a murderer? - PMW Bulletins

by Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.
July 10, 2019 
Share |the PA's role model terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led the most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history, when she and other Fatah terrorists hijacked a bus on Israel's Coastal Highway in March 1978, murdering 37 civilians, 12 of them children, and wounding over 70:

*The Dalal Mughrabi Summer Camp



*
So let’s dwell on this for a moment. A “summer camp” named after (in recognition and honor of) a mass murdering psychopath.

That is a proscription for a maladjusted personality.

There’s more at the link but I’m feeling a little queasy after reading about a shared mental illness afflicting these Cultists.


----------



## Ropey

These are the Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" and live in a virtual state.

The word _virtual _defines as _unstable_.


----------



## Hollie

This is bound to lead to more dead Islamics. 


IDF Shoots armed Hamas member in northern Gaza Strip

Hamas swears revenge adding to tensions already high along the border; IDF claims gunman was approaching the border wall


----------



## Hollie

A dysfunctional enclave of psychopaths who continually act upon the proscription of their mental illness.
*



PA doubles the salary of murderer of 3 Israeli teenagers

PA doubles the salary of murderer of 3 Israeli teenagers - PMW Bulletins*

*The PA today doubled the monthly salary it pays to the terrorist prisoner who planned the murder of 3 Israeli teens in 2014*

*To date, the PA has paid the murderer almost 100,000 shekels *

*The PA has paid the families of the two other terrorist murderers of the teenagers a total of 255,200 shekels. They were killed - becoming so-called "Martyrs" - when they resisted arrest  *
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Since the kidnapping and murder of the three Israeli teens Eyal Yifrach, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Fraenkel, 16, in June 2014, the Palestinian Authority has paid over 350,000 shekels (over $ 98,000 today) in terror rewards to the Hamas terrorist convicted of planning their kidnapping and murder and to the families of the other two terrorists who carried out the kidnapping and murder and who were later killed while resisting arrest.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA doubles the salary of murderer of 3 Israeli teenagers - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

When Palestinian media cry out that Silwan is in danger, they lie twice: once, because the Israeli excavators and authorities do not move in the City of David without the authorization of safety engineers, and they comply with the strictest standards; and a second time, because the City of David, which covers about 15 acres, constitutes about 6 percent of the territory of Silwan.

When Palestinian leaders and clerics cry out that the excavations in the City of David endanger Al-Aqsa, they are deliberately lying. The excavations do not extend beyond the wall of the Temple Mount compound. For years, Israel has made sure to excavate around the Mount and not under it. That was the case regarding the Western Wall and along the Southern Wall of the Temple Mount, and the same is true regarding the City of David. Rven when the excavation comes close to the wall of the Mount from the south, it never goes beyond it. The visitors who walk on the Pilgrimage Road, or through the “Herodian drainage tunnel,” ascend to the Davidson Center, which is at the foot of the walls of the Mount and not within it.

(full article online)

The Truth about Jerusalem’s City of David – The Lies about Silwan


----------



## Sixties Fan

But in all the pictures, women are in the back and men in the front.






And there is actually a barrier between them!





I've seen the Saudi religious police enforce such rules there. At least some parts of Gaza apparently are just as bad.

(full article online)

An ice cream shop in Gaza - Great looking treats, barrier separating women from men ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah and PLO summer camp teaches children to honor arch-terrorists who murdered hundreds - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas’ advisor praises Nazi collaborator as “role model” - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's some child abuse, courtesy of Hamas, in these advertisements for their military summer which they call the "camps of pioneers of liberation:"

(full article online)

Check out Hamas' summer camps this year where they train teens to kill Jews (videos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

"We are about to explode and the explosion will not be in Gaza, but in the occupied West Bank and abroad as well," Hamad said.

He then said, "We must attack, slaughter and kill every Jew who exists in the world."

Hamad was chided for that last statement by Hamas leaders.

Hamas leader Ahmed Yousef sent an open letter to Hamad, saying that his speech was in error.

"My brother, Fathi Hamad (Abu Musab), I understand your anger at the crimes of the occupation against our people, but the language of knives and explosive belts is not the language of politicians, and talk about the killing of Jews is a violation of religious and moral law, and even contrary to what is stated in the Hamas political document."

He is referring to the Hamas manifesto released with much fanfare in 2017 that was more conciliatory to Jews but was falsely reported as a replacement for their charter which indeed calls to kill all Jews.

Yousef's letter continues to say, "O brother, Abu Musab, your hurried enthusiasm [caused you to say things that] will give all pretexts to the occupation to tighten the siege and the practice of further aggression, and will contribute to the abandonment of our people in the Gaza Strip.

Yousef said: "The leadership of Hamas and the head of its political bureau needs to correct the error and explain the situation, because the cost of this speech can be high, and its consequences painful."

Other Palestinians disavowed Hamad's words, saying they do not hate Jews.

Mahmoud al-Zaq, a member of the political bureau of the Palestinian Popular Struggle Front, said "This speech can  is harmful, which harms our people and turns us from victim to murderer." 

Dr. Hossam al-Dajani, a writer and political analyst who is close to Hamas, called Hamad's call to kill the Jews a "strategic mistake and a coup against the Hamas political document."

He said: "This is a serious mistake that Hamas will pay for and should immediately disavow this speech because its repercussions will be serious, especially if a Jew were killed in any foreign capital, the charge would be justified."

"The language of slaughtering in the media is not successful, especially as it is linked to world public opinion which closely links [Hamas] with terrorism and brings the consequent phobia of Islam."

This pushback is rare, as there are antisemitic articles in Arab media all the time. However they rarely reach the level of explicit calls to genocide, and much (but not all) of the criticism centers more on the ramifications of Hamad's words in world public opinion than the immorality of his call to kill all Jews.

(full article online)

Hamas official says the group wants to slaughter every Jew in the world ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

How much of a dictator is Mahmoud Abbas? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

My initial impression was that this obsevation was pen'd in the wrong place.


Sixties Fan said:


> He then said, "We must attack, slaughter and kill every Jew who exists in the world."
> 
> ----------          ----------​Dr. Hossam al-Dajani, a writer and political analyst who is close to Hamas, called Hamad's call to kill the Jews a "strategic mistake and a coup against the Hamas political document."
> 
> He said: "This is a serious mistake that Hamas will pay for and should immediately disavow this speech because its repercussions will be serious, especially if a Jew were killed in any foreign capital, the charge would be justified."
> 
> ----------          ----------​"The language of slaughtering in the media is not successful, especially as it is linked to world public opinion which closely links [Hamas] with terrorism and brings the consequent phobia of Islam."
> 
> This pushback is rare, as there are antisemitic articles in Arab media all the time. However they rarely reach the level of explicit calls to genocide, and much (but not all) of the criticism centers more on the ramifications of Hamad's words in world public opinion than the immorality of his call to kill all Jews.
> 
> ----------          ----------​Hamas official says the group wants to slaughter every Jew in the world ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

But as I though about it, this was the right place.  This is exactly who the Arab Palestinians are.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

More of the loopy, over the rainbow, ain’t comin’ back rants we have come to expect from the Arab-Moslem enclave of mentally incompetent Cultists.



Video:
"Palestinian Official Azzam Al-Ahmad: Arab Spring, Current Conflicts Are American-Zionist Plot to Cause Arab Nation to Disintegrate; Israel Is Arabs' Enemy, Not Iran"


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist version of the Hitler Youth has been stolen from history.


----------



## Hollie

Lots of fun stuff to learn at the Islamic terrorist version of the Hitler Youth.

“... two terrorist murderers - Abu Jihadand Dalal Mughrabi - are among their leaders.”

Lovely, lovely folks. 

And a lovely “religion” that teaches religiously based hatred and fascism. 

*





What do recycling, first aid, and terrorist murderers have in common?

What do recycling, first aid, and terrorist murderers have in common? - PMW Bulletins*

By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
What could recycling, first aid, and terrorist murderers possibly have in common? Nothing, right?

But in the Palestinian Authority they are related - because they are all part of the program taught to kids at the PLO summer camps.
In a video posted by the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs - an institution that arranges and runs summer camps in the PA - Palestinian kids explain what they learned at one such camp.
Young girls and boys describe that they have learned about recycling, first aid, and that sports help to keep a healthy lifestyle. But in between these positive educational messages, the kids were also taught that the Palestinians are “one hand against the enemies,” and that two terrorist murderers - Abu Jihadand Dalal Mughrabi - are among their leaders.
Significantly, one girl singled out these two killers who were involved the most lethal attack in Israel’s history - the Coastal Road massacre planned by Abu Jihad and carried out by Dalal Mughrabi - in which 37 Israeli civilians were murdered, among them 12 children. This is not surprising because both have been turned into role models for society by the PA, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.


----------



## Sixties Fan

What could recycling, first aid, and terrorist murderers possibly have in common? Nothing, right?

But in the Palestinian Authority they are related - because they are all part of the program taught to kids at the PLO summer camps.
In a video posted by the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs - an institution that arranges and runs summer camps in the PA - Palestinian kids explain what they learned at one such camp.

Young girls and boys describe that they have learned about recycling, first aid, and that sports help to keep a healthy lifestyle. But in between these positive educational messages, the kids were also taught that the Palestinians are “one hand against the enemies,” and that two terrorist murderers - Abu Jihadand Dalal Mughrabi - are among their leaders.

Significantly, one girl singled out these two killers who were involved the most lethal attack in Israel’s history - the Coastal Road massacre planned by Abu Jihad and carried out by Dalal Mughrabi - in which 37 Israeli civilians were murdered, among them 12 children. This is not surprising because both have been turned into role models for society by the PA, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.

(full article online)

What do recycling, first aid, and terrorist murderers have in common? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Hamas politburo mouthpiece Fathi “_kill the Jews everywhere_” Hammad was getting some bad press for his otherwise honest portrayal of  the Hamas agenda.

It’s just a shame that Fathi is labeled as an “extremist” when his views toward Jews is shared by so mipuch of the pious Islamic world.

The poor dear is now doing some world class sucking-up and trying to backtrack on his earlier diatribe.

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-distances-itself-from-official-who-urged-murder-of-jews-everywhere/*

*Amid outcry, senior official Fathi Hammad and terror group insist ‘our conflict is with the occupation’*





Senior Hamas official Fathi Hammad. (Screenshot: YouTube)
A senior Hamas official on Monday attempted to walk back his call for members of the Palestinian diaspora to kill Jews around the world, as the terrorist group distanced itself from his remarks.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas backtracks on "kill Jews worldwide" - but not on foreign sleeper cells, bomb belt factories or calling to stab Jewish civilians in Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem practice of indoctrinating generations of children from the earliest age with hate and self-hate is a prescription for a maladjusted personality. 



*Violent indoctrination no way to treat a Palestinian child*

*Violent indoctrination no way to treat a Palestinian child - AIJAC*






The Palestinian view of children as fair game, a legitimate tool to be used for terror – and a legitimate target if they are Israelis – is notoriously well known. The examples are numerous and horrendous. During direct conflicts with Israel in 2009 (“Pillar of Defense”) and 2014 (“Protective Edge”), Hamas terrorists forced women and children to gather around in locations Israel had warned it would strike in Gaza. Indoctrinating Palestinian children to violence and death starts at very early ages. Specialised kindergarten graduation ceremonies (including in the past month), paramilitary summer camps and TV children’s programs all preaching hate and teaching how to kill Jews and become martyrs.


*Meet Janna Jihad*

But there is another alley way for this cynical and cold abuse of children, allegedly softer, yet just as repulsive. It’s the Palestinian industry which turns small children into public relation heroes, media stars as the young and vibrant face of the ‘resistance’. Janna Tamimi, aka Janna Jihad, is the latest product of this industry.

Bassem Tamimi has gone on record explaining that he sees putting Palestinian children on the front line as a rite of passage into society: “the participation of the children in the daily confrontation and the national resistance is [something] they must do to build their self-image and to give them more abilities to deal with problem they might face.”

Bassem Tamimi practises what he preaches on his own children. While his daughter Ahed was on trial (December 2017), he essentially admitted that she had been used as a pawn to achieve his goals at her expense.

“Ahed is a symbol and a model that cannot be broken, even if it has a price”. Fifteen-year-old Muhammad Tamimi, Ahed’s younger brother, is next in the line, getting ready for his turn by reciting slogans to the camera, as he explains to a television crew: “I behave in this manner, so we can take our homeland back. So that only one people will be here, the Palestinian people. And no Israel, because there is no such thing as Israel.”





It’s not surprising that much of the relevant first world finds abuse of children such as is done by the Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Pal’istanians” to be vile and reprehensible. From the perspective of the Arabs-Moslems, children seem to be a disposable commodity that should be exploited to meet an end.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Arab-Moslem practice of indoctrinating generations of children from the earliest age with hate and self-hate is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.
> 
> 
> 
> *Violent indoctrination no way to treat a Palestinian child*
> 
> *Violent indoctrination no way to treat a Palestinian child - AIJAC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian view of children as fair game, a legitimate tool to be used for terror – and a legitimate target if they are Israelis – is notoriously well known. The examples are numerous and horrendous. During direct conflicts with Israel in 2009 (“Pillar of Defense”) and 2014 (“Protective Edge”), Hamas terrorists forced women and children to gather around in locations Israel had warned it would strike in Gaza. Indoctrinating Palestinian children to violence and death starts at very early ages. Specialised kindergarten graduation ceremonies (including in the past month), paramilitary summer camps and TV children’s programs all preaching hate and teaching how to kill Jews and become martyrs.
> 
> 
> *Meet Janna Jihad*
> 
> But there is another alley way for this cynical and cold abuse of children, allegedly softer, yet just as repulsive. It’s the Palestinian industry which turns small children into public relation heroes, media stars as the young and vibrant face of the ‘resistance’. Janna Tamimi, aka Janna Jihad, is the latest product of this industry.
> 
> Bassem Tamimi has gone on record explaining that he sees putting Palestinian children on the front line as a rite of passage into society: “the participation of the children in the daily confrontation and the national resistance is [something] they must do to build their self-image and to give them more abilities to deal with problem they might face.”
> 
> Bassem Tamimi practises what he preaches on his own children. While his daughter Ahed was on trial (December 2017), he essentially admitted that she had been used as a pawn to achieve his goals at her expense.
> 
> “Ahed is a symbol and a model that cannot be broken, even if it has a price”. Fifteen-year-old Muhammad Tamimi, Ahed’s younger brother, is next in the line, getting ready for his turn by reciting slogans to the camera, as he explains to a television crew: “I behave in this manner, so we can take our homeland back. So that only one people will be here, the Palestinian people. And no Israel, because there is no such thing as Israel.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not surprising that much of the relevant first world finds abuse of children such as is done by the Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Pal’istanians” to be vile and reprehensible. From the perspective of the Arabs-Moslems, children seem to be a disposable commodity that should be exploited to meet an end.


Where is there a safe place for Palestinians to keep their children?

When Israeli goons can break into your house in the middle of the night and pull your kids out of bed, there is no safe place.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Hollie said:


> It seems the Hamas politburo mouthpiece Fathi “_kill the Jews everywhere_” Hammad was getting some bad press for his otherwise honest portrayal of  the Hamas agenda.
> 
> It’s just a shame that Fathi is labeled as an “extremist” when his views toward Jews is shared by so mipuch of the pious Islamic world.
> 
> The poor dear is now doing some world class sucking-up and trying to backtrack on his earlier diatribe.
> 
> *https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-distances-itself-from-official-who-urged-murder-of-jews-everywhere/*
> 
> *Amid outcry, senior official Fathi Hammad and terror group insist ‘our conflict is with the occupation’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Fathi Hammad. (Screenshot: YouTube)
> A senior Hamas official on Monday attempted to walk back his call for members of the Palestinian diaspora to kill Jews around the world, as the terrorist group distanced itself from his remarks.


 This is the bastard who in 2012  screeched that "Half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis.

There is only one reply, and it is the only reply that is apt for what this POS said last week -- FUCK YOU!!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

The Arab Palestinians themselves - set the conditions which now they complain.  They created the environment by which, generation after generation, are raised to become a threat to peace of all ages; sub-regionally _(locally)_ and regionally.

The Arab Palestinians, of the territories in dispute, use women and children _(in homes and cottages)_ as cover and concealment through innocent-appearing houses or premises established for the purpose of conducting covert activity in relative security; and as a safe haven terrorist Arab Palestinian operators.



P F Tinmore said:


> When Israeli goons can break into your house in the middle of the night and pull your kids out of bed, there is no safe place.


*(COMMENT)*

In the fight against Arab Palestinian terrorism, and in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, "criminal actors" directly operating against Israel, attempting to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.

The State of Israel is an unequivocally strong opponent of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to peace and security.  The same cannot be said of the Arab Palestinian which fights for stipens, rewards, and other payments in the body-count.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians themselves - set the conditions which now they complain.  They created the environment by which, generation after generation, are raised to become a threat to peace of all ages; sub-regionally _(locally)_ and regionally.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, of the territories in dispute, use women and children _(in homes and cottages)_ as cover and concealment through innocent-appearing houses or premises established for the purpose of conducting covert activity in relative security; and as a safe haven terrorist Arab Palestinian operators.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Israeli goons can break into your house in the middle of the night and pull your kids out of bed, there is no safe place.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the fight against Arab Palestinian terrorism, and in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, "criminal actors" directly operating against Israel, attempting to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.
> 
> The State of Israel is an unequivocally strong opponent of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to peace and security.  The same cannot be said of the Arab Palestinian which fights for stipens, rewards, and other payments in the body-count.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get this shit?

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

What is comical here → is that every time the UN Global Counterterrorism Requirements are discussed, you put on this act like it is the very first time you ever heard of it.  And similarly, every single time you play the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinian face, you conveniently forget about all the Hostile Arab Palestinians arrested in a residence at night.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Link?


*(OBSERVATION)*

In the Counterintelligence business, this is sometimes referred to as the Arab two-step as the "Three Blind Mice" chorus line.


*•  i24NEWS - Israel arrests senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad ...  •*
i24NEWS*arrests*...
Adnan was *arrested* in his home town of Arraba, south of Jenin in the *West Bank*. His *arrest* comes just months after the *Palestinian* was released in December after a year in administrative detention.

*•  Israel arrests former Palestinian militant for 'terror'  •*
Israel arrests former Palestinian militant for 'terror'
The Palestinian Prisoners Club said Zubeidi, the former head of the Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades militant group, was arrested in a village near Ramallah in the occupied West Bank.

*•  Israeli army arrests Palestinian MP from West Bank home  •*
https://www.aa.com.tr/.../israeli-army-*arrests*-*palestinian*-mp-from-*west*-*bank*-home/1317402
Nov 21, 2018 · JERUSALEM, Palestine . The Israeli army on Wednesday arrested a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council (parliament) from the occupied West Bank city of Al-Bireh, according to local witnesses

*•  Palestinian legislator arrested in West Bank | News | Al ...  •*
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/04/palestinian-legislator-khalida-jarrar-arrested...
Palestinian legislator arrested in West Bank. Ramallah - Khalida Jarrar, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Committee (PLC), has been arrested during a raid on her home by the Israeli army. "They came this morning at around 1am. There were about 50 or 60 soldiers, both male and female," Ghassan Jarrar, Khalida’s husband,...​
The use of the civilian community and criminal family residences as cover and concealment is just one variant of several Customarily and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that all discuss that Arab Palestinians think they are above.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab-Moslem practice of indoctrinating generations of children from the earliest age with hate and self-hate is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.
> 
> 
> 
> *Violent indoctrination no way to treat a Palestinian child*
> 
> *Violent indoctrination no way to treat a Palestinian child - AIJAC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian view of children as fair game, a legitimate tool to be used for terror – and a legitimate target if they are Israelis – is notoriously well known. The examples are numerous and horrendous. During direct conflicts with Israel in 2009 (“Pillar of Defense”) and 2014 (“Protective Edge”), Hamas terrorists forced women and children to gather around in locations Israel had warned it would strike in Gaza. Indoctrinating Palestinian children to violence and death starts at very early ages. Specialised kindergarten graduation ceremonies (including in the past month), paramilitary summer camps and TV children’s programs all preaching hate and teaching how to kill Jews and become martyrs.
> 
> 
> *Meet Janna Jihad*
> 
> But there is another alley way for this cynical and cold abuse of children, allegedly softer, yet just as repulsive. It’s the Palestinian industry which turns small children into public relation heroes, media stars as the young and vibrant face of the ‘resistance’. Janna Tamimi, aka Janna Jihad, is the latest product of this industry.
> 
> Bassem Tamimi has gone on record explaining that he sees putting Palestinian children on the front line as a rite of passage into society: “the participation of the children in the daily confrontation and the national resistance is [something] they must do to build their self-image and to give them more abilities to deal with problem they might face.”
> 
> Bassem Tamimi practises what he preaches on his own children. While his daughter Ahed was on trial (December 2017), he essentially admitted that she had been used as a pawn to achieve his goals at her expense.
> 
> “Ahed is a symbol and a model that cannot be broken, even if it has a price”. Fifteen-year-old Muhammad Tamimi, Ahed’s younger brother, is next in the line, getting ready for his turn by reciting slogans to the camera, as he explains to a television crew: “I behave in this manner, so we can take our homeland back. So that only one people will be here, the Palestinian people. And no Israel, because there is no such thing as Israel.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not surprising that much of the relevant first world finds abuse of children such as is done by the Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Pal’istanians” to be vile and reprehensible. From the perspective of the Arabs-Moslems, children seem to be a disposable commodity that should be exploited to meet an end.
> 
> 
> 
> Where is there a safe place for Palestinians to keep their children?
> 
> When Israeli goons can break into your house in the middle of the night and pull your kids out of bed, there is no safe place.
Click to expand...


The “safe place” for Arabs-Moslems appears to be at the Hitler Youth modeled summer camps and the border gee-had. 

What a shame you presume children are a disposable commodity serving your pathology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians themselves - set the conditions which now they complain.  They created the environment by which, generation after generation, are raised to become a threat to peace of all ages; sub-regionally _(locally)_ and regionally.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, of the territories in dispute, use women and children _(in homes and cottages)_ as cover and concealment through innocent-appearing houses or premises established for the purpose of conducting covert activity in relative security; and as a safe haven terrorist Arab Palestinian operators.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Israeli goons can break into your house in the middle of the night and pull your kids out of bed, there is no safe place.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the fight against Arab Palestinian terrorism, and in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, "criminal actors" directly operating against Israel, attempting to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.
> 
> The State of Israel is an unequivocally strong opponent of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to peace and security.  The same cannot be said of the Arab Palestinian which fights for stipens, rewards, and other payments in the body-count.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


You don’t _play_ “ignorance is bliss”, you live it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> What is comical here → is that every time the UN Global Counterterrorism Requirements are discussed, you put on this act like it is the very first time you ever heard of it.  And similarly, every single time you play the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinian face, you conveniently forget about all the Hostile Arab Palestinians arrested in a residence at night.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> In the Counterintelligence business, this is sometimes referred to as the Arab two-step as the "Three Blind Mice" chorus line.
> 
> 
> *•  i24NEWS - Israel arrests senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad ...  •*
> i24NEWS*arrests*...
> Adnan was *arrested* in his home town of Arraba, south of Jenin in the *West Bank*. His *arrest* comes just months after the *Palestinian* was released in December after a year in administrative detention.
> 
> *•  Israel arrests former Palestinian militant for 'terror'  •*
> Israel arrests former Palestinian militant for 'terror'
> The Palestinian Prisoners Club said Zubeidi, the former head of the Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades militant group, was arrested in a village near Ramallah in the occupied West Bank.
> 
> *•  Israeli army arrests Palestinian MP from West Bank home  •*
> https://www.aa.com.tr/.../israeli-army-*arrests*-*palestinian*-mp-from-*west*-*bank*-home/1317402
> Nov 21, 2018 · JERUSALEM, Palestine . The Israeli army on Wednesday arrested a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council (parliament) from the occupied West Bank city of Al-Bireh, according to local witnesses
> 
> *•  Palestinian legislator arrested in West Bank | News | Al ...  •*
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/04/palestinian-legislator-khalida-jarrar-arrested...
> Palestinian legislator arrested in West Bank. Ramallah - Khalida Jarrar, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Committee (PLC), has been arrested during a raid on her home by the Israeli army. "They came this morning at around 1am. There were about 50 or 60 soldiers, both male and female," Ghassan Jarrar, Khalida’s husband,...​
> The use of the civilian community and criminal family residences as cover and concealment is just one variant of several Customarily and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that all discuss that Arab Palestinians think they are above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel shovels shit and you eat it with a spoon.

You believe that Palestinian self defense and liberation is terrorism just like Israel told you to believe.

When are you going to start thinking for yourself?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> What is comical here → is that every time the UN Global Counterterrorism Requirements are discussed, you put on this act like it is the very first time you ever heard of it.  And similarly, every single time you play the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinian face, you conveniently forget about all the Hostile Arab Palestinians arrested in a residence at night.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> In the Counterintelligence business, this is sometimes referred to as the Arab two-step as the "Three Blind Mice" chorus line.
> 
> 
> *•  i24NEWS - Israel arrests senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad ...  •*
> i24NEWS*arrests*...
> Adnan was *arrested* in his home town of Arraba, south of Jenin in the *West Bank*. His *arrest* comes just months after the *Palestinian* was released in December after a year in administrative detention.
> 
> *•  Israel arrests former Palestinian militant for 'terror'  •*
> Israel arrests former Palestinian militant for 'terror'
> The Palestinian Prisoners Club said Zubeidi, the former head of the Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades militant group, was arrested in a village near Ramallah in the occupied West Bank.
> 
> *•  Israeli army arrests Palestinian MP from West Bank home  •*
> https://www.aa.com.tr/.../israeli-army-*arrests*-*palestinian*-mp-from-*west*-*bank*-home/1317402
> Nov 21, 2018 · JERUSALEM, Palestine . The Israeli army on Wednesday arrested a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council (parliament) from the occupied West Bank city of Al-Bireh, according to local witnesses
> 
> *•  Palestinian legislator arrested in West Bank | News | Al ...  •*
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/04/palestinian-legislator-khalida-jarrar-arrested...
> Palestinian legislator arrested in West Bank. Ramallah - Khalida Jarrar, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Committee (PLC), has been arrested during a raid on her home by the Israeli army. "They came this morning at around 1am. There were about 50 or 60 soldiers, both male and female," Ghassan Jarrar, Khalida’s husband,...​
> The use of the civilian community and criminal family residences as cover and concealment is just one variant of several Customarily and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that all discuss that Arab Palestinians think they are above.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel shovels shit and you eat it with a spoon.
> 
> Your usual  believe that Palestinian self defense and liberation is terrorism just like Israel told you to believe.
> 
> When are you going to start thinking for yourself?
Click to expand...


Masterful concision. 

So you believe that Islamic terrorism equates to liberation?

Acts of Islamic terrorist gee-had equates to self-defense?

Isn't it odd then that we see your Islamic terrorist heroes waging gee-had consistent with the goals of the Hamas charter. Your Islamic terrorist “liberators” are attacking Israel while citing “Allah willing” as they announce their intention to rip the hearts out of Jews and urging that Jews across the globe be killed. Yet, you insist with incessant whining that Islamic terrorists are unfairly accused of gee-had attacks, bombings, killings, etc., 

You justify Islamic terrorism as a part of your insensate Jew hatreds.

When your Islamic terrorist heroes were given the opportunity to create a working civil government, they failed. Their first reaction was to ruthlessly impose a form of totalitarianism, remove all human rights, and oppress everyone within their borders with intolerable religious laws and vicious, cruel, and ruthless enforcement. 

This is where you want to spam the board from your catalog of goofy YouTube videos or something from your catalog of cut and paste slogans.


----------



## Hollie

COGAT: Hamas summer camp trains kids to 'commit acts of terror'

*COGAT: HAMAS SUMMER CAMP TRAINS KIDS TO 'COMMIT ACTS OF TERROR'*
2 minute read.
By ZACHARY KEYSER











Islamic terrorist self-defense.


----------



## Hollie

It seems Arabs-Moslems have made their Allah god in rather their own image: an angry, violent and murderous Entity.
*




"May Allah reward them"
- Fatah official greets family of murderer of 2

"May Allah reward them" - Fatah official greets murderer's family  - PMW Bulletins*


*"All forms of aid to the families of the Martyrs,*

*the wounded, and the prisoners" will be provided*

*Murderer's demolished house is being rebuilt*
By Nan Jacques Zilberdik


----------



## Hollie

Following the money trail that enables islamic terrorism nets a _gee-had denied_ slap down to the criminal / islamic terrorist Hamas franchise. 

Funding for islamic terrorism is a vital component that allows islamic terrorist franchises to operate so denying funds / stolen welfare money used by the islamic terrorist / criminal enterprises reduces their ability toward gee-had. 




The IDF has confiscated half a million shekels in terror funds since the beginning of the year

The IDF foiled a Hamas money laundering network in the West Bank on Tuesday in a joint operation with Israel’s Shin Bet internal security agency, the military announced.

The operation exposed a money transfer network from the Gaza Strip to Ramallah, which operated in coordination between senior Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip and their Hamas operatives in the West Bank.

“The network that we have now exposed operated under the guise of a civilian organization in an attempt to conceal the money's origin and destination,” the military said in a statement.

According to the military, the network was operated by a civilian traveling and passport-issuing agency named "Al-Haramain," which is owned by the Hani brothers and Firas Blbiesi, along with a money exchanger named Mohammad Swesi, who all operate from the Gaza Strip.

IDF, Shin Bet foil Hamas money laundering ring


----------



## Hollie

Whats an islamic terrorist to do when their islamic terrorist franchise is labeled as such?

Here’s some unsolicited advise: the Islamic terrorists of Gaza’istan, (Iran’istan Province), should understand that gee-had attacks on a neighboring state will have negative consequences. That communication could go by way of an email to both of the Gaza and West Bank based islamic terrorist franchises as well add the iranian Mullocrats.
*


EU court rejects Hamas appeal to delist terrorist status*

EU court rejects Hamas appeal to delist terrorist status | DW | 06.03.2019

*06.03.2019*
_





Hamas has been in a long-running battle in EU courts to remove its terrorist listing. In the latest ruling, a top EU court found Hamas could be labelled a terrorist organization._


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

There is a good article in the ME forum site that makes some obvious connections with welfare money showered on the so-called “Pal’istanians” and their ability to commit acts of Islamic terrorism. 

Really, stating the obvious. 



*Does Foreign Aid Fuel Palestinian Violence?*
*by Steven Stotsky

Does Foreign Aid Fuel Palestinian Violence?*

In the midst of the effort in Paris to bestow unprecedented sums of foreign aid on the Palestinians, there was little discussion of the unintended consequences — often deadly ones — of previous aid regimens. The recent history of foreign assistance shows a distinct correlation between aid and violence. Perhaps aid itself does not cause violence, but there is strong evidence that it contributes to a culture of corruption, government malfeasance, and terrorism that has had lethal consequences for both Israelis and Palestinians over the past decade.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

The New Palestinian Intifada – In Lebanon


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

OH! Tell me it ain't so...  Our Friend PF Tinmore just told me there is "no dispute."



*Hamas Fires 200 Rockets at Israel in Just 24 Hours - idf.il*
https://www.idf.il/en/articles/*hamas*/*hamas-fires-200-rockets*-at-israel-in-just-24-hours
On Saturday, July 14, *Hamas* fired approximately *200 rockets* and mortar shells at Israel from the Gaza Strip. Here are the events that took place this past weekend, from *Hamas*’ attacks to the IDF’s response. Friday, July 13. Throughout the day, thousands of Palestinians violently rioted in …


*Flareup in Gaza: Hamas and Islamic jihad fire 200 rockets ...*
Flareup in Gaza:  Hamas and Islamic jihad fire 200 rockets towards Israel*hamas*-and-islamic-jihad-*fire*-*200*...
May 04, 2019 · Renewed fighting has escalated in Gaza: “approximately *200 rockets* have been fired by Gaza militants towards Israel over the course of a few hours…In response, the IDF says it has carried out airstrikes on more than 30 militant targets in Gaza, including *rocket* launcher sites and other military compounds used by *Hamas* and Islamic Jihad.”

*Author:* Christine Douglass-Williams

Everyone in the international community knows that it is against Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL): in Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I prohibits “acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.”



Hollie said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

This is just an example of the pledge by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) of the disputed territories.

•  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.

•  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.​
There is no reasonable expectation that the HoAP will pursue:

◈  The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,

◈  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,​

*Palestinian scholars issue a fatwa against "normalization ...*
246mag.com/*palestinian*-*scholars*-*issue*-*a-fatwa*-against-normalization
On Sunday, the Association of *Palestinian Scholars issued a fatwa* – a *Muslim religious legal ruling* – entitled “The ruling of Islam concerning normalization with the Zionist enemy occupying the *land of Palestine*.” Not surprisingly, they come out against it.


*Palestinian Scholars Issue a Fatwa against Normalising ...*
ijtihadnet.com/*palestinian*-*scholars*-*issue*-*a-fatwa*-against-normalising-relation-with-israel
*Palestinian Scholars Issue a Fatwa* against Normalising Relation with *Israel March 4*, 2019 Fiqh & Life , Governing & Policy Normalising relations with Israel is a threat to the beliefs of all Muslims, the *Palestinian International Association of Muslim Scholars said yesterday*.


*Palestinians: No Peace or Reconciliation with the 'Infidels'*
Palestinians: No Peace or Reconciliation with the 'Infidels'*palestinians*-peace-infidels
Mar 04, 2019 · The *Gaza-based group*, called *Palestinian Scholars*' Association, said in its *fatwa* that according to the rulings of Islam, "normalization with the Zionist enemy, and accepting it …


*Palestinians: No Peace or Reconciliation with the ...*
https://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2019/03/04/*palestinians*-no-peace-or-reconciliation-with...
The Gaza-based group, called *Palestinian Scholars*’ *Association*, said in its *fatwa* that according to the rulings of Islam, “normalization with the Zionist enemy, and accepting it in the region, is one of the most dangerous penetrations of the Muslim community and a threat to its security, as well as a corruption of its doctrine and a loss of ...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

I answer the question, and you immediately comeback with: 




P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get this shit?
> Link?



Notice, you say you want a link.. So I give you a link that supports my position.

THEN you comback with a vulgar and _ad hominem_ assessment: 



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel shovels shit and you eat it with a spoon.
> 
> You believe that Palestinian self defense and liberation is terrorism just like Israel told you to believe.
> 
> When are you going to start thinking for yourself?


*(COMMENT)*
The Arab Palestinians are not engaged in a war of liberation.  The Israelis did not occupy the disputed territories from the Arab Palestinians.  The territories were at the time of the conflict, under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
I think for myself in every single response I make.  I am not a mouthpiece for the Israeli's - I just call it as I see it.  But I will, in my own defense, say that I consider your rebuttal chain _(as demonstrated above)_ so feeble and so divorced of any respectable commentary → as to warrant your position totally unresponsive.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I answer the question, and you immediately comeback with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice, you say you want a link.. So I give you a link that supports my position.
> 
> THEN you comback with a vulgar and _ad hominem_ assessment:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shovels shit and you eat it with a spoon.
> 
> You believe that Palestinian self defense and liberation is terrorism just like Israel told you to believe.
> 
> When are you going to start thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> The Arab Palestinians are not engaged in a war of liberation.  The Israelis did not occupy the disputed territories from the Arab Palestinians.  The territories were at the time of the conflict, under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> I think for myself in every single response I make.  I am not a mouthpiece for the Israeli's - I just call it as I see it.  But I will, in my own defense, say that I consider your rebuttal chain _(as demonstrated above)_ so feeble and so divorced of any respectable commentary → as to warrant your position totally unresponsive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Before the 1948 war it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.

So, where is the dispute?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I answer the question, and you immediately comeback with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice, you say you want a link.. So I give you a link that supports my position.
> 
> THEN you comback with a vulgar and _ad hominem_ assessment:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shovels shit and you eat it with a spoon.
> 
> You believe that Palestinian self defense and liberation is terrorism just like Israel told you to believe.
> 
> When are you going to start thinking for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> The Arab Palestinians are not engaged in a war of liberation.  The Israelis did not occupy the disputed territories from the Arab Palestinians.  The territories were at the time of the conflict, under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> I think for myself in every single response I make.  I am not a mouthpiece for the Israeli's - I just call it as I see it.  But I will, in my own defense, say that I consider your rebuttal chain _(as demonstrated above)_ so feeble and so divorced of any respectable commentary → as to warrant your position totally unresponsive.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before the 1948 war it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?
Click to expand...


The dispute is in which people or peoples should have self-determination including sovereignty in that territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, this is 100% wrong.

By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.

Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.

The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.

It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.



P F Tinmore said:


> Before the 1948 war, it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?


*(COMMENT)*

Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.  

The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.

Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is 100% wrong.
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.
> 
> The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the 1948 war, it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.
> 
> The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.


*Administration! *

It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.

Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is 100% wrong.
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.
> 
> The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the 1948 war, it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.
> 
> The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Administration! *
> 
> It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.
Click to expand...

It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is 100% wrong.
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.
> 
> The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the 1948 war, it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.
> 
> The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Administration! *
> 
> It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.
Click to expand...

*Link? *

Of course not. Start dancing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is 100% wrong.
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.
> 
> The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the 1948 war, it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.
> 
> The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Administration! *
> 
> It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.
Click to expand...


Indeed, link to what didn't exist?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is 100% wrong.
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.
> 
> The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the 1948 war, it was Palestinian territory. After the war Egypt and Jordan occupied Palestinian territory. After the 1967 war Israel occupied Palestinian territory. It has always been Palestinian territory.
> 
> So, where is the dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.
> 
> The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Administration! *
> 
> It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link to what didn't exist?
Click to expand...

You said it, you prove it.

Of course you wont. You are just shoveling shit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is 100% wrong.
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.  In the case of the territory in Area B of the Sikes-Picot, that assigned Allied Power was under British control and held the authority under Article16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Pursuant to the Order in Council, the order was cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."  The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.  AND that is how it was formally named.
> 
> The limits to the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were afixed within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> It was called Palestine but was not a self-governing territory by the inhabitants.  For ≈ 8 Centuries, within the Levant of the Ottoman Empire, what we call Israel and the territories under dispute were known as the Sanjak Akko, Sanjak Nablus, and the Mustasarriflik of Jerusalem.  Not as "Palestine," as the Arab Palestinians of today would have you believe.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your commentary is incorrect in that after the 1967 War, the West Bank and Jerusalem were still sovereign Jordanian Territory.  That did not change until the end of July 1988 when it was abandoned by the Jordanians officially.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Jordanian Territory occupied by the Israelis.  It was not Palestinian Territory Occupied by the Israelis.  At the end of July 1988, when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, there was no Arab Palestinian self-governing institution to accept custody.  The Arab Palestinians refused to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in early 1948.
> 
> The status of the Territories remained relatively stable until the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Again, it had not always been "Palestinian Territory."  This is misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> By order of the Allied Powers, the territory was placed under the administration of the assigned Allied Power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Administration! *
> 
> It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link to what didn't exist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it, you prove it.
> 
> Of course you wont. You are just shoveling shit.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you want me to prove something never existed?

Indeed, I disproved it. Prove I didn't.

Indeed, the "angry Islamist" thing is so cute.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Administration! *
> 
> It was still Palestinian territory. The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> Jordan attempted to annex the West Bank but it was illegal to do so. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still called Occupied Palestinian Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link to what didn't exist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it, you prove it.
> 
> Of course you wont. You are just shoveling shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you want me to prove something never existed?
> 
> Indeed, I disproved it. Prove I didn't.
> 
> Indeed, the "angry Islamist" thing is so cute.
Click to expand...

Why do you flap your jaw if you can't prove what you say?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was never "Pal'istanian" territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link to what didn't exist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said it, you prove it.
> 
> Of course you wont. You are just shoveling shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you want me to prove something never existed?
> 
> Indeed, I disproved it. Prove I didn't.
> 
> Indeed, the "angry Islamist" thing is so cute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you flap your jaw if you can't prove what you say?
Click to expand...


Indeed, I have no indication that the Islamist settler colonial project (what you call the Pal'istanian squatters), ever held any sovereignty over any lands or had a functioning government. 

Indeed, why do you think your impersonation of an angry Islamist is anything but comical?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Again,  you ask for a "link."



P F Tinmore said:


> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.


*(COMMENT)*

The Authority:


			
				Section I said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.



You keep harping on the status of "ADMINISTRATION."   Well!  No matter what meaning you assign to that status, it was a status agreed upon by the Allied Powers in 1920 (San Remo Convention), while it was under the Administration of the Allies as "Enemy Territory."   The Allies could have divided the "Enemy Territory" and redistributed in any way that the Allied Powers chose.    They could have even grasped it as their own sovereign territory.  Instead, the Mandatory, selected and approved by the Allied Powers, did assign sovereignty: 




 ​
In the - The Mandatory bestowed independence on Jordan and elevated the status of the Emir to King and sovern over Trans-Jordan _(known today as: The Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan)_.  All the Middle East Mandates were eventually granted independence and sovereignty.

You are misinterpreting the nature of the Administration.  Great Britain _(not the Arab Palestinians)_ was the Government of Palestine up and until 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,

OH, you are one to talk.



P F Tinmore said:


> Why do you flap your jaw if you can't prove what you say?


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot prove a damn thing pertaining to the Arab Palestinian and the extended governance over any of the territory.  

And don't mention the All Palestine Government (APG); a puppet regime created by the Egyptians and dissolved by the Egyptians.  The APG did NOT actually represent any self-governing institution.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again,  you ask for a "link."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Link? *
> 
> Of course not. Start dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Authority:
> 
> 
> 
> Section I said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep harping on the status of "ADMINISTRATION."   Well!  No matter what meaning you assign to that status, it was a status agreed upon by the Allied Powers in 1920 (San Remo Convention), while it was under the Administration of the Allies as "Enemy Territory."   The Allies could have divided the "Enemy Territory" and redistributed in any way that the Allied Powers chose.    They could have even grasped it as their own sovereign territory.  Instead, the Mandatory, selected and approved by the Allied Powers, did assign sovereignty:
> 
> View attachment 269881​
> In the - The Mandatory bestowed independence on Jordan and elevated the status of the Emir to King and sovern over Trans-Jordan _(known today as: The Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan)_.  All the Middle East Mandates were eventually granted independence and sovereignty.
> 
> You are misinterpreting the nature of the Administration.  Great Britain _(not the Arab Palestinians)_ was the Government of Palestine up and until 1948.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> In the - The Mandatory bestowed independence on Jordan and elevated the status of the Emir to King and sovern over Trans-Jordan _(known today as: The Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan)_. All the Middle East Mandates were eventually granted independence and sovereignty.


So where is the treaty between the Mandate and Israel granting independence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> OH, you are one to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you flap your jaw if you can't prove what you say?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot prove a damn thing pertaining to the Arab Palestinian and the extended governance over any of the territory.
> 
> And don't mention the All Palestine Government (APG); a puppet regime created by the Egyptians and dissolved by the Egyptians.  The APG did NOT actually represent any self-governing institution.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Rights belong to the people not governments or states.


RoccoR said:


> And don't mention the All Palestine Government (APG)


Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> OH, you are one to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you flap your jaw if you can't prove what you say?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot prove a damn thing pertaining to the Arab Palestinian and the extended governance over any of the territory.
> 
> And don't mention the All Palestine Government (APG); a puppet regime created by the Egyptians and dissolved by the Egyptians.  The APG did NOT actually represent any self-governing institution.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rights belong to the people not governments or states.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And don't mention the All Palestine Government (APG)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
Click to expand...

Indeed, not to mention your shrill screeching has nothing to do with the declaration of Israeli independence in1948.

Indeed, a decade of your shrill screeching has resulted in, you know, a decade of your shrill screeching. Try a soothing throat lozenge.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

The UN Recommendation establish the Steps Preparatory to Independence.



P F Tinmore said:


> So where is the treaty between the Mandate and Israel granting independence?


*(COMMENT)*

It is not in the Treaty.  At the time of the treaty, no one knew the outcome.  Thus the "right of self-determination" was the authority and vehicle was the Declaration of Independence by the Provisional Government.

What is asounding is that you cannot see with your own eyes, or recognized that a state was formed and does exist.  It does not really matter the mechanism by which it came about.  You cannot change the past and no one is actually going to allow you to roll back the clock and permit an unstable people like the Arab Palestinians to destroy the most successful country in the Middle East - North Africa and the Gulf Regions.

You and the Arab Palestinians are so worried about the past.  When you should be looking forward and trying to build a nation.  Why, because sooner or later, the gravy train is going to run-out and the donor nations will dry up.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,

Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.



P F Tinmore said:


> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.


*(COMMENT)*

First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.

Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_

I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Examining the International Community's Long-Standing Double Standard on Refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

After PMW documented the Palestinian summer camp named after terrorist Mughrabi, Jason Greenblatt, Special Advisor to the US President and Ofir Gendelman, Israel's Prime Minister's spokesperson for the Arab media, tweeted PMW's story and condemned the naming of the camp after the mass murderer. In response, Fatah's Shabiba is now defending the camp's name, calling murder of Israelis including children "legitimate human struggle":

"Martyr Dalal Mughrabi is a *symbol of legitimate human struggle*against injustice, oppression, and the *occupation* that has committed crimes against the Palestinian people throughout its *71 years*. *The use of Dalal's name in the summer camps of [Fatah's] Shabiba Student*(sic., High School) *Movement is nothing but commemoration of a situation of struggle*, *which has been waged by our Palestinian people* that was uprooted from its land and homeland as a result of the crimes, oppression, and massacres that the Zionist gangs committed against it. Therefore, *Dalal Mughrabi's [actions] are a natural human expression that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation*."
[Official Fatah Facebook page, July 16, 2019]


In addition to rejecting the criticism, the Fatah youth movement announced it has no intention of changing its policies of glorying terror but will "*continue on this national path*."

The PA pays salaries to terrorist murderers using the same reasoning. They claim that murdering Israeli civilians is legitimate under international law.

In recent days, PMW has exposed several Palestinian summer camps named after terrorist murderers. 

(full article online)

Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Soooo, let’s get a little perspective on the Islamic Terrorist tunnels built with international welfare dollars.

As Hamas Loses Tunnels Option, Terror Faction Takes To Air and Sea By YAAKOV LAPPIN - Yonkers Tribune.

Since the end of the 2014 conflict, enough cement has entered Gaza to build 16 Burj Khalifa skyscrapers in Dubai—the tallest building in the world. That cement has largely gone underground, feeding Hamas’s war machine.



My suspicion is that the IDF has a pretty thorough mapping of the islamo-mole tunnels within Gaza’istan and if need be, the IAF could convert these tunnels into Islamic terrorist self-dug graves with standard munitions.


----------



## Hollie

Those angry folks in the West Bank franchise of the UNRWA welfare fraud launched themselves into another tirade aimed at _The Great Satan_™️

I think they’re a bit angry with us because we stopped supporting their Islamic terrorist welfare entitlement. 
*


PA: The US is "racist" and helps Israel "Judaize" Jerusalem

PA: The US is "racist" and helps Israel "Judaize" Jerusalem  - PMW Bulletins*

*Abbas: Israel opened the Pilgrimage Road archaeological site to erase Jerusalem's Arab characteristics*

*PA rages against US ambassador and envoy for participating in opening ceremony*

*PA: US officials' participation in opening is*
*-       "Piracy and a blatant attack against international law"
-       "A scandalous crime"
-       "An attack" and "a threat to the Al-Aqsa Mosque"
-       "American aggression"
-       "A colonialist act"
-       "Forging history"*






*Abbas' advisor: US Ambassador Friedman is "behaving like an extremist settler who is controlled by racist ideas against all people"*

*Columnist for official PA daily: US Ambassador Friedman *
*-       "Is an American colonialist"
-       "Looks extremely happy, like criminals enjoying their crimes and the sight of their victims suffering"*

*Columnist calls to sue US officials who participated in Pilgrimage Road opening in 3 different courts*


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Those angry folks in the West Bank franchise of the UNRWA welfare fraud launched themselves into another tirade aimed at _The Great Satan_™️
> 
> I think they’re a bit angry with us because we stopped supporting their Islamic terrorist welfare entitlement.
> *
> 
> 
> PA: The US is "racist" and helps Israel "Judaize" Jerusalem
> 
> PA: The US is "racist" and helps Israel "Judaize" Jerusalem  - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> *Abbas: Israel opened the Pilgrimage Road archaeological site to erase Jerusalem's Arab characteristics*
> 
> *PA rages against US ambassador and envoy for participating in opening ceremony*
> 
> *PA: US officials' participation in opening is*
> *-       "Piracy and a blatant attack against international law"
> -       "A scandalous crime"
> -       "An attack" and "a threat to the Al-Aqsa Mosque"
> -       "American aggression"
> -       "A colonialist act"
> -       "Forging history"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Abbas' advisor: US Ambassador Friedman is "behaving like an extremist settler who is controlled by racist ideas against all people"*
> 
> *Columnist for official PA daily: US Ambassador Friedman *
> *-       "Is an American colonialist"
> -       "Looks extremely happy, like criminals enjoying their crimes and the sight of their victims suffering"*
> 
> *Columnist calls to sue US officials who participated in Pilgrimage Road opening in 3 different courts*



Wow. You really have to park your brain at the far end of the parking lot to buy into any of this crap.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,

Humanity started in Modern Humans are believe to have originated in "Africa."  Technically, nearly every nation is populated by foreign culture.



P F Tinmore said:


> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

For the last 2000 years, nearly all cultures are of a foreign extract.  Your argument is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
Click to expand...


Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Humanity started in Modern Humans are believe to have originated in "Africa."  Technically, nearly every nation is populated by foreign culture.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the last 2000 years, nearly all cultures are of a foreign extract.  Your argument is ridiculous.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

No refute?

Cool.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
Click to expand...


Yawn...,, Tell that to the U. N. Keep posting


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
Click to expand...


Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!  

You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
Click to expand...

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.

There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
Click to expand...


Israel is not an exclusive Jewish State. As usual, you’re simply barfing propaganda, incorrect and don’t know the facts. Further, there is no requirement for a precedent.

You’re infuriated that in an area of fascist,Islamic totalitarian nations, a western style democracy has surpassed your Islamic paradises in every measurable way relative to the human development index. 

And Allah knows best.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist riots / border gee-had continue apace with the expected results: nothing gained for the Islamic terrorists. 


More Than 6,000 Palestinians Riot on Israel-Gaza Border, as Hamas-Orchestrated Unrest Continues





Palestinian demonstrators riot on the Israel-Gaza Strip border, east of Gaza City, March 30, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.

More than 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices at IDF troops.

The soldiers responded with riot-dispersal means. According to medical officials in Hamas-ruled Gaza, nearly 100 Palestinians were injured.


----------



## Hollie

A classic example of Arab-Moslem incompetence and ineptitude.

Hamas: ‘The spilling of Palestinian blood is a red line’

The Hamas terror group requested the immediate involvement of mediators who will speak with Israel on their behalf “to end the Zionist crimes against our people.” 

Hamas spokesperson Fawzi Barhum said that the actions of the IDF during Friday are “another crime that joins a black list [of crimes] against the Palestinian people.” 

He placed full reasonability for the 97 Palestinians who were injured on Israel’s doorstep,  saying that “the spilling of Palestinian blood is a red line.” 




Why, yes. Islamic terrorists riot at the Israeli border, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices and it’s somehow the fault of Israelis that Islamic terrorists suffer injuries. 

Islamic-incompetence at its finest usual.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Sunni Islamic terrorists are going for a visit with their Shia masters. I really would be curious to know if Hamas will be begging for an increase in theie welfare stipend. 

I really can’t imagine the Shia Mullocrats agreeing to any welfare pay raise without Hamas agreeing to step up their attacks aimed at Israel. 



*Delegation of senior Hamas officials arrives in Tehran*

*Delegation of senior Hamas officials arrives in Tehran*

Terror group leader Ismail Haniyeh says mission in Iran for a few days, ‘expecting important results,’ remains mum on its specific goals
Today, 6:37 pm  0




Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh speaks during a meeting with foreign reporters in Gaza City on June 20, 2019 (Mohammed Abed/AFP)
Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said Saturday that a delegation of senior officials from the terror group had arrived in Tehran for a visit.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. It seems Hamas must have done major league bending and scraping before the Egyptians in order to bend and scrape before their Shia masters. 

Those Egyptians are so, you know, islamophobic, maybe even _racist_™️



https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/07...gypt-prevents-hamas-leader-from-leaving-gaza/

Hamas mouthpiece claims Egypt, Israel working together to undermine terrorist group's Tehran ties. Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh had planned to travel to Iran, Turkey, and Qatar to raise funds for Hamas, Palestinians in coastal enclave.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The Jewish Agency was a creature of the Mandate and served at the Mandate's pleasure. The Jewish agency was an advisory body that had no governing power. It had no legitimacy at the end of the Mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
Click to expand...



I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.

What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ *P F Tinmore,* et al,
> 
> Well, here again, you are twisting the facts to suit an anti-Israeli agenda.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First off:  The State of Israel was proclaimed by the "NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE  consisting of members of elected representative of Jewish Bodies Palestine."    It was NOT proclaimed or created by the Jewish Agency.
> 
> Secondly:  The "Jewish Agency" was NOT a creation of the Jews, but a requirement by the Allied Powers as outlined in Article 4 of the Mandate.  The Allied Powers directed that a "Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine."  Furthermore, the Allied Powers mandated The Zionist Organisation, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognized as such agency.  "The World Zionist Organization, created in *1929* by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem."  _(Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica)_
> 
> I cannot defend the Jewish Agency _(I'm not their representative - I'm not even Jewish)_ but I can read its history and tell that you are off the rails in your implication here.  I see this as just another example of how the Arab Palestinian disseminates such information "which is deliberately intended to deceive" the reader.  In each little bit of propaganda has just enough valid information to sound true to the reader that is uninformed and mistakenly takes you at your word.  This is a big difference between you and me --- and our respective reputations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
Click to expand...

Of course not. I never have.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how you try to slice it, Israel is a foreign entity in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
Click to expand...


No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Caroline Glick shut down the debate with this bombshell speech


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t be ridiculous. The Jewish people have been the indigenous peoples of Israel, Judea and Samaria for 4000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
Click to expand...

Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Caroline Glick shut down the debate with this bombshell speech


What about Jews who do not bring Israel with them?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.
Click to expand...


Yep. Scratch anyone opposed to Israel and you will find an antisemite underneath. And inevitably they will have formulated some ridiculous and feeble mental construct to justify their unreasonable hatred. 

You have picked the “not-real-Jews” brand of antisemitism.  It’s handy when you can see the obvious truth of the Jewish history in the territory but still need to find a way to deny Jewish claims to the land.

The “not-real-Jews” is particularly useful when you want to claim you are not antisemitic. Because how can you be against Jews or hate Jews when they don’t even exist anymore?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Seriously, Tinmore?!
> 
> You mark this as ‘funny’?  So, you are denying the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory?
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.
Click to expand...

Of course........little Tinmore cannot show ONE evidence, much less half of one, that shows that the Jews today are nooooooot.......descended from the ancient Jews.

But it is so much fun to watch this little guy squirm and use moronic words like "talking points".

Tooooooooooooo Fuuuuuunnnnnyyyyy  !!!!!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

I don't suppose you remember, but there was _(at one time)_ an active group member and I think her name was "Sheri" _(or something like that)_.  She was very pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian.  This is before Operation Protective Edge; maybe earlier.



Hollie said:


> *Delegation of senior Hamas officials arrives in Tehran*


*(COMMENT)*

I remember that, back then, when we had discussions with Boston1, theliq, TheOldSchool, Penelope, Kondor3, Toastman, and Pheonail (to name a few) there was very little talk of Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps - Quds Force (IRGC-QF) _(a designated terrorist activity)_, the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) vehemently argued my point that the fissures the various HoAP elements were turning traitor against the Arab Palestinian general population by accepting help and favor from the IRGC-QF _(a Popular Mobilization Forces (PMF) strategy)_.  There was one of the discussion group _(I think her name was "SHERI" or something like that)_ that rigorously argued that it just could not be.  I think I see a new emphasis on the part of the HoAP to cooperate even more today in order to receive even greater support from the Iranians. 

Sometimes I wonder where the old group went_!_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.
> 
> There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. Scratch anyone opposed to Israel and you will find an antisemite underneath. And inevitably they will have formulated some ridiculous and feeble mental construct to justify their unreasonable hatred.
> 
> You have picked the “not-real-Jews” brand of antisemitism.  It’s handy when you can see the obvious truth of the Jewish history in the territory but still need to find a way to deny Jewish claims to the land.
> 
> The “not-real-Jews” is particularly useful when you want to claim you are not antisemitic. Because how can you be against Jews or hate Jews when they don’t even exist anymore?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The “not-real-Jews”


I didn't say that.

I am Christian, but I never claimed to be indigenous to the Holy Land.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians?
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I don't suppose you remember, but there was _(at one time)_ an active group member and I think her name was "Sheri" _(or something like that)_.  She was very pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian.  This is before Operation Protective Edge; maybe earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Delegation of senior Hamas officials arrives in Tehran*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I remember that, back then, when we had discussions with Boston1, theliq, TheOldSchool, Penelope, Kondor3, Toastman, and Pheonail (to name a few) there was very little talk of Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps - Quds Force (IRGC-QF) _(a designated terrorist activity)_, the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) vehemently argued my point that the fissures the various HoAP elements were turning traitor against the Arab Palestinian general population by accepting help and favor from the IRGC-QF _(a Popular Mobilization Forces (PMF) strategy)_.  There was one of the discussion group _(I think her name was "SHERI" or something like that)_ that rigorously argued that it just could not be.  I think I see a new emphasis on the part of the HoAP to cooperate even more today in order to receive even greater support from the Iranians.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder where the old group went_!_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


When you brought Sherri into the discussion I started getting facial ticks. I certainly do recall her posts as being rather... how shall we say.... polarizing? 

I had lost track of the list of posters you mentioned. I haven’t seen those names in quite some time and that’s too bad as they added to a lively conversation.

I certainly agree about the ties being formed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad with the Iranians. I have to believe that financing from the Iranians is the reason that Hamas and IJ are making those connections. What strange bedfellows. I think the danger for both Hamas and IJ is that they are being viewed by the Sunni Arab world as treasonous as they align with Iran. I suspect the Saudi’s, especially, are going to hold a grudge against Hamas and IJ for aligning with the Shia who they view as heretics. 

It’s a bit of tribal warfare extended to a regional perspective.


----------



## Hollie

Qatar was scheduled to deliver more “cash by the pound” to Gaza. Last time, the Qatari cash came in packed suitcases.

Qatar delivers more cash to Gaza as part of truce understandings


The cash is scheduled to be distributed by the Gaza post office. That seems fair.
Is Qatari money to Gaza falling into Hamas operatives' hands? | Israel Behind the News


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? 
⁜→ Hollie, et al,



Hollie said:


> Qatar was scheduled to deliver more “cash by the pound” to Gaza. Last time, the Qatari cash came in packed suitcases.
> 
> Qatar delivers more cash to Gaza as part of truce understandings
> 
> The cash is scheduled to be distributed by the Gaza post office. That seems fair.
> Is Qatari money to Gaza falling into Hamas operatives' hands? | Israel Behind the News


*(COMMENT)*

•  Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain on Friday issued a list of 59 individuals and 12 entities they say are *linked to Qatar over terrorism*.  •

When I first saw this _(a couple of years ago)_ I had to chuckle.  No Palestinians listed.  This again is the ostrich effect. 

Most respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians?
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar was scheduled to deliver more “cash by the pound” to Gaza. Last time, the Qatari cash came in packed suitcases.
> 
> Qatar delivers more cash to Gaza as part of truce understandings
> 
> The cash is scheduled to be distributed by the Gaza post office. That seems fair.
> Is Qatari money to Gaza falling into Hamas operatives' hands? | Israel Behind the News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain on Friday issued a list of 59 individuals and 12 entities they say are *linked to Qatar over terrorism*.  •
> 
> When I first saw this _(a couple of years ago)_ I had to chuckle.  No Palestinians listed.  This again is the ostrich effect.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Everybody has their own phony list of terrorists.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about the Jewish people being the first, or the only people there.  Nor did I say anything about an exclusive Jewish State.
> 
> What I specifically asked you about is whether you deny the history of the Jewish people in that specific territory.  Do you?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. Scratch anyone opposed to Israel and you will find an antisemite underneath. And inevitably they will have formulated some ridiculous and feeble mental construct to justify their unreasonable hatred.
> 
> You have picked the “not-real-Jews” brand of antisemitism.  It’s handy when you can see the obvious truth of the Jewish history in the territory but still need to find a way to deny Jewish claims to the land.
> 
> The “not-real-Jews” is particularly useful when you want to claim you are not antisemitic. Because how can you be against Jews or hate Jews when they don’t even exist anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The “not-real-Jews”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
Click to expand...


Sure you did. You just doubled down on the “not-real-Jews”.

You are literally, actually insisting that there are two different categories of Jews:  the ‘real’ ones who have a history in the territory in question and the other ones


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. I never have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. Scratch anyone opposed to Israel and you will find an antisemite underneath. And inevitably they will have formulated some ridiculous and feeble mental construct to justify their unreasonable hatred.
> 
> You have picked the “not-real-Jews” brand of antisemitism.  It’s handy when you can see the obvious truth of the Jewish history in the territory but still need to find a way to deny Jewish claims to the land.
> 
> The “not-real-Jews” is particularly useful when you want to claim you are not antisemitic. Because how can you be against Jews or hate Jews when they don’t even exist anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The “not-real-Jews”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure you did. You just doubled down on the “not-real-Jews”.
> 
> You are literally, actually insisting that there are two different categories of Jews:  the ‘real’ ones who have a history in the territory in question and the other ones
Click to expand...

I didn't say that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians?
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar was scheduled to deliver more “cash by the pound” to Gaza. Last time, the Qatari cash came in packed suitcases.
> 
> Qatar delivers more cash to Gaza as part of truce understandings
> 
> The cash is scheduled to be distributed by the Gaza post office. That seems fair.
> Is Qatari money to Gaza falling into Hamas operatives' hands? | Israel Behind the News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain on Friday issued a list of 59 individuals and 12 entities they say are *linked to Qatar over terrorism*.  •
> 
> When I first saw this _(a couple of years ago)_ I had to chuckle.  No Palestinians listed.  This again is the ostrich effect.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everybody has their own phony list of terrorists.
Click to expand...


What is phony about the US list of designated terrorist organizations?

I think you’re suffering from hurt feelings because the list, overwhelmingly, is represented by Islamic groups.


----------



## Hollie

With a couple of hundred pounds of Qatari welfare money and an audience before his Shia mullahs, the Hamas mouthpiece is doing his best impression of a swaggering teenager. 


https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/07/21/hamas-rockets-can-reach-anywhere-in-israel/

Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh threatened over the weekend that the group's rockets have the ability to "strike anywhere in Israel."

In a video conference with Turkish journalists, Haniyeh boasted that "our missiles cover all of Israel, and the leadership of the Zionist entity knows that aggression on its part will be met with a harsh response from us."




For all the bluster, the Islamic terrorists know that another major attack aimed at Israeli cities could prompt a really devastating response aimed at the Islamic Entity.


----------



## Hollie

Gazans receive their Qatari money. May. 19, 2019

Hamas on Sunday began to distribute millions of dollars in monthly payments from money provided by Qatar

Hamas Distributes Qatari Money Quietly Brought Into Gaza





Gee whiz, but the _Great Satan_™️ hating Arabs-Moslems sure do like those infidel dollars.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied for Abu. 




https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/...li-joined-hamas-plotted-blow-up-hotel-israel/

It has been cleared for publication that in June of 2019, Adel Abu al-Dayeb, a resident of the Arab Bedouin village of Rahat, was detained for questioning in connection with joining the Hamas terrorist organization reports 0404. The investigation was a joint effort between the Shabak (Israeli Security Services) and the Israeli Police,

According to the report, Abu al-Dayeb was inspired to join the terrorist organization after exposure to their propaganda on the internet. The investigation also revealed that the suspect tried to make a bomb that was to be detonated in a hotel in Israel. He was familiar with the hotel as he worked closely as a gardener.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you just mark comments about the history of the Jewish people as "funny".  Stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. Scratch anyone opposed to Israel and you will find an antisemite underneath. And inevitably they will have formulated some ridiculous and feeble mental construct to justify their unreasonable hatred.
> 
> You have picked the “not-real-Jews” brand of antisemitism.  It’s handy when you can see the obvious truth of the Jewish history in the territory but still need to find a way to deny Jewish claims to the land.
> 
> The “not-real-Jews” is particularly useful when you want to claim you are not antisemitic. Because how can you be against Jews or hate Jews when they don’t even exist anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The “not-real-Jews”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure you did. You just doubled down on the “not-real-Jews”.
> 
> You are literally, actually insisting that there are two different categories of Jews:  the ‘real’ ones who have a history in the territory in question and the other ones
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
Click to expand...



Oh, give me a break.  Ya did.  



> Because you always use the unsubstantiated talking point that the current Jews are related to the ancient Jews



You are literally creating two categories of Jews:  those who have a history in the territory in question, and a whole other set of *"unrelated" *Jews. 

You used that term.  You are claiming that the Jews of history are UNRELATED to the "current" Jews.  

Jeez.  Just own your own damn words.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yousef Alhelou writes for Arab Weekly.

He is evidently a Fatah loyalist, but even so, a Palestinian Arab publicly accusing Hamas of ruining Gaza in English is a little rare:

 Many crises that took place recently led Palestinians to question why Hamas has stayed in power but is unable to lift the siege and provide a decent life for the nearly 2 million residents of the tiny costal enclave.

Those who want to work in the governmental sector in Gaza must be a Hamas loyalist or at least supporter. This also applies to international aid assistance from countries such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Turkey and NGOs.

The priority to receive food aid depends on how well a person is connected to the Islamic movement. Housing projects for those whose homes were destroyed in wars with Israel are also prioritised by level of loyalty to Hamas.

If a person has no connection to Hamas, they must be very patient and fight for rights.

No accountability is carried out. Many young people committed suicide because of poverty and debts. The number of beggars — mainly children — in the streets has reportedly tripled.

Mass migration is taking place from Gaza to settle in Europe, especially among unemployed youth and graduates. Even some of those who are rich and who have a stable life have left looking for a better future and to enjoy their basic rights.

Activists and journalists have left because they were unable to express themselves or report without intimidation.

Leaving Gaza is not easy. The Egypt-controlled Rafah crossing is the main gateway for the Gazans to the outside world. They must exert effort to make sure their name is on the departures list. Connections and sometimes bribes are a must to make it out of the “big prison.”

(full article online)

British Palestinian journalist says Hamas takes international aid for its own members ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It’s so cute when Islamic theocratic totalitarian regimes can come to a meeting of the minds. 

When the Shia and Sunni aren’t slaughtering each other wholesale at target rich environments: mosques and marketplaces, they can come  together to rail against _The Zionist Entity_™️



In Tehran, Hamas deputy chief says on ‘same path’ as Iran in fighting Israel

Delegation from Gaza-based terrror group meets head of Iran’s Strategic Council on Foreign Relations; Haniyeh says he hopes visit will produce ‘important results’


----------



## Hollie

Yes, according to the Fatah Death Cult, idolizing a mass murderer is a “symbol for the humanistic struggle”.

Brought to you by the mentally defective.




https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Fat...ds-is-a-symbol-for-humanistic-struggle-596241

Fatah, the party of PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said that the decision to name a summer camp after Dalal Mughrabi is justified since she is a “symbol for the humanistic struggle” against Israel. 

Mughrabi was killed in 1978 after she led eleven Palestinian and Lebanese militants in a killing and hijacking spree within Israel that claimed the lives of 38 Israelis, 13 of them children. It is the deadliest attack on Israeli civilians in the history of the Jewish state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Yes, according to the Fatah Death Cult, idolizing a mass murderer is a “symbol for the humanistic struggle”.
> 
> Brought to you by the mentally defective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Terrorist who killed 13 kids is a symbol for ‘humanistic struggle’
> 
> Fatah, the party of PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said that the decision to name a summer camp after Dalal Mughrabi is justified since she is a “symbol for the humanistic struggle” against Israel.
> 
> Mughrabi was killed in 1978 after she led eleven Palestinian and Lebanese militants in a killing and hijacking spree within Israel that claimed the lives of 38 Israelis, 13 of them children. It is the deadliest attack on Israeli civilians in the history of the Jewish state.


Chickenfeed compared to the civilians killed by Israel regularly.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, according to the Fatah Death Cult, idolizing a mass murderer is a “symbol for the humanistic struggle”.
> 
> Brought to you by the mentally defective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Terrorist who killed 13 kids is a symbol for ‘humanistic struggle’
> 
> Fatah, the party of PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said that the decision to name a summer camp after Dalal Mughrabi is justified since she is a “symbol for the humanistic struggle” against Israel.
> 
> Mughrabi was killed in 1978 after she led eleven Palestinian and Lebanese militants in a killing and hijacking spree within Israel that claimed the lives of 38 Israelis, 13 of them children. It is the deadliest attack on Israeli civilians in the history of the Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to the civilians killed by Israel regularly.
Click to expand...

Do you mean Arab-Moslem civilians used by the Islamic terrorist franchises for propaganda purposes?

I found a YouTube video. I knew you would appreciate that.


----------



## Hollie

Chickenfeed


----------



## Hollie

From the comments by way of Ali Khamene, I suppose that the Shia mullocrats have committed both money and weapons to their Sunni errand boys. A bit of a win-win for the Shia.  They are in a position to dictate terms to the Sunni tribe and the Shia are only too willing to have the Sunni holy warriors (ideological enemies of the Shia), take one for the cause.

How odd that Ali Khamenei identifies the conflict as including a religious matter when the board's spokesman for Hamas insists this isn't a religious conflict.




TERHAN, Iran (AP) — Iran’s supreme leader was quoted Monday as saying during a meeting with a delegation from the Palestinian militant group Hamas that his country won’t give up its stand on Palestine.

“Supporting Palestine is an ideological and religious matter,” Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said, according to the TV.


The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a grave flaw in your argument, that I've been meaning to address for a long time.  You have used this as a response many times.   

There is no asymmetric act that can ever be justified because given a good faith effort an alternative can be negotiated. → AND → It is never necessary to intentionally target non-combatants with the purpose and intent to intimidate a population and to compel a government into some action.

Important to Remember:




 ​
There is no just cause for terrorism.



P F Tinmore said:


> Chicken feed compared to the civilians killed by Israel regularly.


*(COMMENT)*

This issue is addressed in two general levels.

◈  Strategic Level:  

✦  The Secretary-General reiterates that there is no justification for terrorism nor for the glorification of those who commit such heinous acts.

✦ Deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.

✦ Strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems , money laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials.​
◈ Tactical Level:

✦ Arab Palestinians who commit an offence which is: 

(a)  Solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, 

(b)  Found guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, may be punished under the law of the occupied territory.​
✦ Recalling that all States must cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with their obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or commission of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.

✦ Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)  Prevent such conduct;

(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
◈ The "chickenfeed" comment is an example of what little value they place on life.  It is also important to realize that a great number of Arab Palestinians are made casualties can be attributed to the Arab Palestinian Leadership because tto them Arab Palestinian lives are so   :

✦  Intentionally locate military objectives _(rocket lauchers, munitions storage, Command and Control Activities, Safe Havens, High Value Targets, Infiltration Tunnel Activity, etc)_ within or near densely populated areas.

✦  Intentionally retain civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.

✦  Intentionally utilize the presence of protected person to render certain locations or areas immune from Israel military neutralization.​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is a grave flaw in your argument, that I've been meaning to address for a long time.  You have used this as a response many times.
> 
> There is no asymmetric act that can ever be justified because given a good faith effort an alternative can be negotiated. → AND → It is never necessary to intentionally target non-combatants with the purpose and intent to intimidate a population and to compel a government into some action.
> 
> Important to Remember:
> 
> View attachment 270492​
> There is no just cause for terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chicken feed compared to the civilians killed by Israel regularly.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This issue is addressed in two general levels.
> 
> ◈  Strategic Level:
> 
> ✦  The Secretary-General reiterates that there is no justification for terrorism nor for the glorification of those who commit such heinous acts.
> 
> ✦ Deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.
> 
> ✦ Strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems , money laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials.​◈ Tactical Level:
> 
> ✦ Arab Palestinians who commit an offence which is:
> 
> (a)  Solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment,
> 
> (b)  Found guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, may be punished under the law of the occupied territory.​✦ Recalling that all States must cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with their obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or commission of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.
> 
> ✦ Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> ◈ The "chickenfeed" comment is an example of what little value they place on life.  It is also important to realize that a great number of Arab Palestinians are made casualties can be attributed to the Arab Palestinian Leadership because tto them Arab Palestinian lives are so   :
> 
> ✦  Intentionally locate military objectives _(rocket lauchers, munitions storage, Command and Control Activities, Safe Havens, High Value Targets, Infiltration Tunnel Activity, etc)_ within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> ✦  Intentionally retain civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.
> 
> ✦  Intentionally utilize the presence of protected person to render certain locations or areas immune from Israel military neutralization.​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel kills civilians by the thousands and the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.

And besides, Israeli settlers are not protected persons (civilians) according to the Fourth Geneva Convention.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> And besides, Israeli settlers are not protected persons (civilians) according to the Fourth Geneva Convention.



That is a fallacy you have posted before.  You are trying to justify the murder of civilians (specifically Jews) by suggesting they have no protection in law.  

You are suggesting that Jewish people have no right to life.  It is a vile ideology of permissible genocide.  



You are absolutely, unequivocally incorrect.  Of course, ALL people have the right to life.  That right to life is entrenched in dozens of human rights documents, treaties, conventions and law.  To suggest otherwise is abhorrent.  




But... personally, I think its important to illuminate the vile ideology of the Arab Palestinians, their supporters, and many Muslims around the world.  Because it makes me realize just what we are actually dealing with here and only entrenches my belief that Israel and the Jewish people must never, ever be vulnerable to genocide again.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel kills civilians by the thousands and the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.



No.  They are expected to take all legal measures to negotiate a good faith solution with their neighbors.

But as long as they see murdering the Jooooo vermin as a viable option, because their ideology (both religious and political) permits and even encourages it, it will never happen.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The Arab Palestinians are responsible for the deaths of so many of their own, it is simply stupidity.

But just in case you don't understand how the Hostile Arab Palestinian Leadership is principle responsible for the accumulated deaths, I cut and paste the applicable portion of my posting below in my comments.

Just as the Charge of the Light Brigade (British Cavalry) was an error on the part of the British Command; so it is that the.  The Earl of Cardigan (MG) and Lord Fitzroy (Field Marshal) bear total responsibility for the ill-fated engagement, so it is that the enormous death count in the 70 years of conflict in the territory formerly under the Mandate is the responsibility 




P F Tinmore said:


> Israel kills civilians by the thousands and the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> And besides, Israeli settlers are not protected persons (civilians) according to the Fourth Geneva Convention.


*(AGAIN COMMENT)*

You are mostly in error on the score of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  I outline how the Arab Palestinians have violated the  GCIV (Rules 23, 24, and 97) and the activities subject to Article 68 - Penalties.

We have go over this many times.  The Israelis give the Warning and the Arab Palestinians ignore them.  That is a violation on the part of the Arab Palestinians _(NOT the Israelis)_...

This is not including the violations of the thousands of indiscriminate launchs of rockets into civilian populated areas in violation of the GCIV.  The Arab Palestinian Leadership knows very well that when the Arab Palestinians violate Rule #6 • Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities, such military operations will be mounted in order to silence the Arab Palestinian Threat.

◈ The "chickenfeed" comment is an example of what little value they place on life.  It is also important to realize that a great number of Arab Palestinians are made casualties can be attributed to the Arab Palestinian Leadership because tto them Arab Palestinian lives are so:

✦  Intentionally locate military objectives _(rocket lauchers, munitions storage, Command and Control Activities, Safe Havens, High Value Targets, Infiltration Tunnel Activity, etc)_ within or near densely populated areas.

✦  Intentionally retain civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.

✦  Intentionally utilize the presence of protected person to render certain locations or areas immune from Israel military neutralization.​I don't know how much clearer I can make it.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians Leadership makes the threats and then intentionally sends their people to their deaths so that they can claim to be the "victim."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel kills civilians by the thousands and the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.


You have this rather odd notion that you have an entitlement to gee-had attacks without consequence. Your Islamic terrorist heroes have a written charter that declares their intention to slaughter the Jewish people in Israel. Your heroes act on that charter. The Israeli government responds to gee-had attacks with a remarkable degree of restraint. That is, by the way, one of many reasons why the gee-had attacks continue.  While you presume an entitlement to attacks on Israelis, the Israeli military is a profoundly better armed and trained force with the result that islamic terrorists die in greater numbers. They also die in grester numbers because your islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas, using those civilians as cover.

Why are you whining about dead islamics when islamics provoke retaliatory responses?


----------



## Shusha

Palestinians verbally harass and physically attack Muslim at Al-Aqsa/Temple Mount.  

I don't know which is worse:  the total lack of respect for a holy place, the violence or the sheer stupidity of pissing off the Saudis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are responsible for the deaths of so many of their own, it is simply stupidity.
> 
> But just in case you don't understand how the Hostile Arab Palestinian Leadership is principle responsible for the accumulated deaths, I cut and paste the applicable portion of my posting below in my comments.
> 
> Just as the Charge of the Light Brigade (British Cavalry) was an error on the part of the British Command; so it is that the.  The Earl of Cardigan (MG) and Lord Fitzroy (Field Marshal) bear total responsibility for the ill-fated engagement, so it is that the enormous death count in the 70 years of conflict in the territory formerly under the Mandate is the responsibility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills civilians by the thousands and the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> And besides, Israeli settlers are not protected persons (civilians) according to the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> *(AGAIN COMMENT)*
> 
> You are mostly in error on the score of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  I outline how the Arab Palestinians have violated the  GCIV (Rules 23, 24, and 97) and the activities subject to Article 68 - Penalties.
> 
> We have go over this many times.  The Israelis give the Warning and the Arab Palestinians ignore them.  That is a violation on the part of the Arab Palestinians _(NOT the Israelis)_...
> 
> This is not including the violations of the thousands of indiscriminate launchs of rockets into civilian populated areas in violation of the GCIV.  The Arab Palestinian Leadership knows very well that when the Arab Palestinians violate Rule #6 • Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities, such military operations will be mounted in order to silence the Arab Palestinian Threat.
> 
> ◈ The "chickenfeed" comment is an example of what little value they place on life.  It is also important to realize that a great number of Arab Palestinians are made casualties can be attributed to the Arab Palestinian Leadership because tto them Arab Palestinian lives are so:
> 
> ✦  Intentionally locate military objectives _(rocket lauchers, munitions storage, Command and Control Activities, Safe Havens, High Value Targets, Infiltration Tunnel Activity, etc)_ within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> ✦  Intentionally retain civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.
> 
> ✦  Intentionally utilize the presence of protected person to render certain locations or areas immune from Israel military neutralization.​I don't know how much clearer I can make it.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians Leadership makes the threats and then intentionally sends their people to their deaths so that they can claim to be the "victim."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are such an Israeli apologist.

You always ignore the root of the conflict.


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Palestinians spit on, attack Saudi journalist near Temple Mount


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are responsible for the deaths of so many of their own, it is simply stupidity.
> 
> But just in case you don't understand how the Hostile Arab Palestinian Leadership is principle responsible for the accumulated deaths, I cut and paste the applicable portion of my posting below in my comments.
> 
> Just as the Charge of the Light Brigade (British Cavalry) was an error on the part of the British Command; so it is that the.  The Earl of Cardigan (MG) and Lord Fitzroy (Field Marshal) bear total responsibility for the ill-fated engagement, so it is that the enormous death count in the 70 years of conflict in the territory formerly under the Mandate is the responsibility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills civilians by the thousands and the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> And besides, Israeli settlers are not protected persons (civilians) according to the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> *(AGAIN COMMENT)*
> 
> You are mostly in error on the score of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  I outline how the Arab Palestinians have violated the  GCIV (Rules 23, 24, and 97) and the activities subject to Article 68 - Penalties.
> 
> We have go over this many times.  The Israelis give the Warning and the Arab Palestinians ignore them.  That is a violation on the part of the Arab Palestinians _(NOT the Israelis)_...
> 
> This is not including the violations of the thousands of indiscriminate launchs of rockets into civilian populated areas in violation of the GCIV.  The Arab Palestinian Leadership knows very well that when the Arab Palestinians violate Rule #6 • Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities, such military operations will be mounted in order to silence the Arab Palestinian Threat.
> 
> ◈ The "chickenfeed" comment is an example of what little value they place on life.  It is also important to realize that a great number of Arab Palestinians are made casualties can be attributed to the Arab Palestinian Leadership because tto them Arab Palestinian lives are so:
> 
> ✦  Intentionally locate military objectives _(rocket lauchers, munitions storage, Command and Control Activities, Safe Havens, High Value Targets, Infiltration Tunnel Activity, etc)_ within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> ✦  Intentionally retain civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.
> 
> ✦  Intentionally utilize the presence of protected person to render certain locations or areas immune from Israel military neutralization.​I don't know how much clearer I can make it.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians Leadership makes the threats and then intentionally sends their people to their deaths so that they can claim to be the "victim."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.
Click to expand...


Well unfortunately, you will forever look for excuses why Arabs-Moslems have such difficulty with forming stable societies. The same disabilities and ineptitudes that afflict the greater Arab-Moslem world similarly afflict the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank. 

Your imagined, Disney’esqe version of some wondrous Pally’land you have invented is facing the stark reality of retrograde Islamist ideology. 

Western civilization is derived largely as the result of a distillation of centuries of Judeo-Christian principles and convictions, ancient Greek and Roman philosophy, the Magna Carta, the work of Locke, Hume, Rousseau, Paine, _et al_.. into a framework of governance that promotes a philosophy of individual rights and liberties. 

You might want to whine and moan on the robes of your Shia mullahs. I’m sure they have your best interests at heart and will gladly lecture you on the wondrous Shia Islam they want to bring to Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas leaders are performing some world class sucking-up before the Shia Mullocrats. 

Ismail Haniyeh should do the right thing and convert to Shia’ism, open a Shia mosque in Gaza and pray for the return of the Mahdi. 


Hamas Official Tells Iranian Leader Group Is Tehran Regime’s ‘First Line of Defense’

A top Hamas official met on Sunday with Iranian Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and told him that his group was the Tehran regime’s “first line of defense.”

According to Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot, Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri met with Khamenei in Tehran and presented him with a letter from Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. I’m almost thinking the the wondrous Islamist social order may not be the land of date palms and camel’s milk some would have us believe.  



Hamas under fire for failed policies, toxic rhetoric | Yousef Alhelou | AW

It would take courage for Hamas to admit its failures but it has further cracked down on critics.

Palestinians in Gaza who have been suffering from an Israeli siege since 2007 are increasingly expressing frustration with Hamas, the movement that controls the Gaza Strip, for failing to provide solutions to their problems.

Many crises that took place recently led Palestinians to question why Hamas has stayed in power but is unable to lift the siege and provide a decent life for the nearly 2 million residents of the tiny costal enclave.

Those who want to work in the governmental sector in Gaza must be a Hamas loyalist or at least supporter. This also applies to international aid assistance from countries such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Turkey and NGOs.

The priority to receive food aid depends on how well a person is connected to the Islamic movement. Housing projects for those whose homes were destroyed in wars with Israel are also prioritised by level of loyalty to Hamas.

If a person has no connection to Hamas, they must be very patient and fight for rights.

No accountability is carried out. Many young people committed suicide because of poverty and debts. The number of beggars — mainly children — in the streets has reportedly tripled.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,


*Serenity Prayer*
~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971) 

God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.​


P F Tinmore said:


> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."

No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas tries to save its public image as the truth comes out


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *Serenity Prayer*
> ~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
> 
> God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
> courage to change the things I can;
> and wisdom to know the difference.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."
> 
> No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
> 
> There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them. They have their act together.


They think they do but their list of lies are being taken down.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *Serenity Prayer*
> ~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
> 
> God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
> courage to change the things I can;
> and wisdom to know the difference.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."
> 
> No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
> 
> There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them. They have their act together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They think they do but their list of lies are being taken down.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *Serenity Prayer*
> ~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
> 
> God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
> courage to change the things I can;
> and wisdom to know the difference.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."
> 
> No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
> 
> There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them. They have their act together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They think they do but their list of lies are being taken down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Post something you "know" about Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Saudi blogger attacked by Palestinians sings in Hebrew at meeting with Netanyahu


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *Serenity Prayer*
> ~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
> 
> God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
> courage to change the things I can;
> and wisdom to know the difference.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."
> 
> No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
> 
> There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them. They have their act together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They think they do but their list of lies are being taken down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post something you "know" about Israel.
Click to expand...


You were whining about "their list of lies are being taken down".

What lies?


----------



## Hollie

Hamas (Shia wannabes), and the Iranian theocrats are getting along famously. The audience granted to Hamas by the Iranians is turning into something of a predictable hate-fest with both sides proclaiming their Jew-hating proclivities.

It's like these retrograde, angry self-haters spend their every waking moment in sweaty, chest-heaving, hand-wringing agony over the existence of Jews and _The Zionist Entity_



Hamas Deputy Says His Group 'On Same Path' as Iran

“We are on the same path as the Islamic Republic — the path of battling the Zionist entity and the arrogant ones,” Arouri said during a meeting with Iran’s Strategic Council on Foreign Relations, Kamal Kharazi.


TEL AVIV – Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri said in Tehran on Sunday that Hamas and Iran are on “the same path” in fighting Israel, Iran’s semi-official Fars news agency reported.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *Serenity Prayer*
> ~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
> 
> God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
> courage to change the things I can;
> and wisdom to know the difference.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are such an Israeli apologist.
> 
> You always ignore the root of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."
> 
> No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
> 
> There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them. They have their act together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They think they do but their list of lies are being taken down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post something you "know" about Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were whining about "their list of lies are being taken down".
> 
> What lies?
Click to expand...

Let's start at the beginning.

A land without people for a people without land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *Serenity Prayer*
> ~ Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
> 
> God → grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
> courage to change the things I can;
> and wisdom to know the difference.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them.  They have their act together.  But I think you need to reassess your position.  Because it appears that you are not able to "accept the things YOU cannot change."
> 
> No matter how many Brian Greene _(Theoretical Physicist) _Videos you watch, the timeline does not roll backward.  The core issues of today are in the practical ability to distinguish between who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
> 
> There is simply no way that a culture of people (Arab Palestinians) can ethically say → "as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis certainly don't need someone like me to apologize for them. They have their act together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They think they do but their list of lies are being taken down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post something you "know" about Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were whining about "their list of lies are being taken down".
> 
> What lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's start at the beginning.
> 
> A land without people for a people without land.
Click to expand...


Why are you dancing around your earlier comment?

You were whining about "their list of lies are being taken down".

What lies?


----------



## Hollie

It's because the Arab-Moslem nutbars live in some strange, alternate reality where they just dont feel a need or desire to seek help for their mental / emotional disabilities.  

Video clip here:
"Hamas MP Marwan Abu Ras: The Zionists Send Girls to Sleep with Arabs and Give Them AIDS"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Recently, the Department of Preventive Health in Gaza City launched a campaign to test the swimming pools  in public and private chalets to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.

The head of department Mohammed Al-Ashi said that the campaign is being carried out around about 50 chalets within the city.

He explained that special equipment will be installed for each chalet, which will monitor the water quality, the chlorination system used in the swimming pools, and compliance with the technical safety conditions such as non slip flooring around the swimming pool to prevent slipping and a first aid box available at the chalet.

(full article online)

First world problems in Gaza: Chalet pools not properly chlorinated ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Recently, the Department of Preventive Health in Gaza City launched a campaign to test the swimming pools  in public and private chalets to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.
> 
> The head of department Mohammed Al-Ashi said that the campaign is being carried out around about 50 chalets within the city.
> 
> He explained that special equipment will be installed for each chalet, which will monitor the water quality, the chlorination system used in the swimming pools, and compliance with the technical safety conditions such as non slip flooring around the swimming pool to prevent slipping and a first aid box available at the chalet.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> First world problems in Gaza: Chalet pools not properly chlorinated ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



_Oh, the humanity_!

The _besieged coastal enclave_™️ doesn’t have basic needs like a pool service?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, _et al,_

This is not the first story I have seen on such a theme, but they are coming at an ever-increasing rate and frequency.



EXCERPT • Sixties Fan said:


> Recently, the Department of Preventive Health in Gaza City launched a campaign to test the swimming pools  in public and private chalets to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.


*(COMMENT)*

Signs of activity with a "public health and safety theme" are a very good sign; not just for the constituents of the Gaza Strip, but including a general improvement in the protection and cultural development.

For a State Supporter of Terrorist Regime to focus assets on such a theme demonstrates an alternative view of the Gazan population.  It is a human factor not normally associated with a population that openly supports the hostile work of HAMAS to intimidate the Israeli citizenry and to compel the Israeli government to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the Arab Palestinian criminal objectives. Ω

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Recently, the Department of Preventive Health in Gaza City launched a campaign to test the swimming pools  in public and private chalets to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.
> 
> The head of department Mohammed Al-Ashi said that the campaign is being carried out around about 50 chalets within the city.
> 
> He explained that special equipment will be installed for each chalet, which will monitor the water quality, the chlorination system used in the swimming pools, and compliance with the technical safety conditions such as non slip flooring around the swimming pool to prevent slipping and a first aid box available at the chalet.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> First world problems in Gaza: Chalet pools not properly chlorinated ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


I think chlorine is a banned product. (?)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, the Department of Preventive Health in Gaza City launched a campaign to test the swimming pools  in public and private chalets to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.
> 
> The head of department Mohammed Al-Ashi said that the campaign is being carried out around about 50 chalets within the city.
> 
> He explained that special equipment will be installed for each chalet, which will monitor the water quality, the chlorination system used in the swimming pools, and compliance with the technical safety conditions such as non slip flooring around the swimming pool to prevent slipping and a first aid box available at the chalet.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> First world problems in Gaza: Chalet pools not properly chlorinated ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> I think chlorine is a banned product. (?)
Click to expand...


Nice try.  But no, its on the permitted list.  I checked.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, the Department of Preventive Health in Gaza City launched a campaign to test the swimming pools  in public and private chalets to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.
> 
> The head of department Mohammed Al-Ashi said that the campaign is being carried out around about 50 chalets within the city.
> 
> He explained that special equipment will be installed for each chalet, which will monitor the water quality, the chlorination system used in the swimming pools, and compliance with the technical safety conditions such as non slip flooring around the swimming pool to prevent slipping and a first aid box available at the chalet.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> First world problems in Gaza: Chalet pools not properly chlorinated ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> I think chlorine is a banned product. (?)
Click to expand...


Maybe it's better you don't hurt yourself with that "thinking" thing and just stick with youtube videos.


----------



## Hollie

Sounds like Abu has a plan. Lets see if the Iranians are on board with the Capitol of a new-fangled caliphate in Gaza'istan, 


"Palestinian Imam Ali Abu Ahmad in Al-Aqsa Address: Only a Caliphate Based on Shari'a Law Can Protect Us; May Allah Kill All Infidels, Cleanse Al-Aqsa of the Jews' Filth"


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

PA warns: "The most dangerous season of Judaization" has begun - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

It has to be a major embarrassment for the Sunni Arabs to see their fellow Sunni islamists bending and scraping before the hated Shia heretics.

The odd slogan "axis of resistance" is, of course, a misnomer. Anyone who knows their koranolgy understands that the inventor of islamism despised Jews (and Christians), from whom he stole ruthlessly in the formulation of his politico-religious ideology. Hamas and Shia Iran are nothing of any axis of resistance but rather pious Moslems who know their korans and sunny and are following the inventor of islamism as the model for all Moslems.


Hamas pursues 'axis of resistance' alliance during Tehran visit


----------



## Hollie

Interesting article that tries to put some spin on the Pal’istanian terrorists and their relationship with the Hezbollah, the Iranian occupation army in Lebanon. 

Hamas revising approach to Syrian issue: Hezbollah offical




Nice try guys, but the Lebanese have no use for the financial and political burden that is a de facto truth about the forever entitled Pal’istanians. 

The ‘Slow Death’ of Palestinians in Lebanon


----------



## Sixties Fan

Love of the Land: The new Palestinian Authority textbooks are even worse than the old ones - by Ken Cohen


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorist riots / border gee-had continue apace with the expected results: nothing gained for the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> More Than 6,000 Palestinians Riot on Israel-Gaza Border, as Hamas-Orchestrated Unrest Continues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian demonstrators riot on the Israel-Gaza Strip border, east of Gaza City, March 30, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> More than 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices at IDF troops.
> 
> The soldiers responded with riot-dispersal means. According to medical officials in Hamas-ruled Gaza, nearly 100 Palestinians were injured.


Out of context.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist riots / border gee-had continue apace with the expected results: nothing gained for the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> More Than 6,000 Palestinians Riot on Israel-Gaza Border, as Hamas-Orchestrated Unrest Continues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian demonstrators riot on the Israel-Gaza Strip border, east of Gaza City, March 30, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> More than 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices at IDF troops.
> 
> The soldiers responded with riot-dispersal means. According to medical officials in Hamas-ruled Gaza, nearly 100 Palestinians were injured.
> 
> 
> 
> Out of context.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian journalist tells how Hamas brings kids to front line to die

A Palestinian journalist has described in detail how Hamas operatives take children in buses to protest against Israel on the Gaza border.

In a new documentary released by TPS, the journalist, whose face is blurred and his voice distorted for security reasons, says he has witnessed Hamas operatives taking chairs and sitting nearby the fence eating seeds and watching people die.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

While I don't know if HR 185O will have any real enforcement, it is a step in the right direction to acknowledge the fact of Arab-Moslem terrorism. 


House passes bill that calls to sanction Palestinian terrorist groups

02:53 | 07/25/19

HOUSE PASSES BILL THAT CALLS TO SANCTION PALESTINIAN TERROR GROUPS
By OMRI NAHMIAS

_The new legislation directs the president to impose at least two different financial sanctions on the people or agencies that are identified as assisting such groups.

WASHINGTON – The House of Representatives approved a bill on Tuesday that calls for sanctioning Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups. 

House Resolution 1850, the Palestinian International Terrorism Support Prevention Act, is asking “to impose sanctions with respect to foreign support for Palestinian terrorism, and for other purposes.” 

Sponsored by Rep. Brian Mast (R-Florida), the bill directs the president to submit an annual report to Congress, identifying “each foreign person or agency or instrumentality of a foreign state that... knowingly assists in, sponsors, or provides significant financial or material support” for “Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad or any affiliate.”

The legislation directs the president to impose at least two different financial sanctions on the people or agencies that are identified as assisting these terror groups.



The bill also requires the president to report to Congress on each government that provides support for acts of terrorism and provides material support to Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or any affiliate organization. 

A foreign government that supports the terrorist organizations could face foreign aid being cut off. The president could waive the obligation for imposing sanctions on a caseby-case basis. _


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists representing the Hamas franchise are feeling the affects of the Great Satan, and others, eliminating or reducing their welfare contributions that enable islamic terrorism. Quite a number of phony / useless agencies run by Hamas are disappearing.




Hamas government in Gaza gets major overhaul

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — The Hamas government in the Gaza Strip is currently in the process of merging ministries, to ultimately 14 ministries instead of 23. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was dissolved July 21 and its staff have been transferred to several other ministries, Al-Monitor learned from government sources.

Other ministries will meet the same fate in order to ease the financial burden their budgets are causing. The Hamas government is suffering a financial crisis and took this unilateral decision without referring to the government in the West Bank headed by Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh and formed by President Mahmoud Abbas in April.

I thought this part was funny:
Speaking about the dissolution of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, he said that the ministry in Gaza has no representative in any country or embassy. He added that Abbas prohibits any person from Hamas to hold any position in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Ramallah, whether in consulates, embassies or diplomatic missions.


----------



## Hollie

When Palestinians are Hopeless, Terror Declines; When Hopeful, Terrorism Increases


The common mantra that Palestinian hopelessness increases terrorism and that the prospects for peace decrease it has always been fake news. Palestinian terrorism invariably rises in tandem with their hopes of gaining the upper hand.

During the first intifada, Palestinians killed 91 Israelis over the course of slightly over five years. Palestinian terror shot up dramatically, however, as the Camp David peace process initiated at the end of 1991 morphed into direct negotiations with the PLO. The Oslo “peace” process was thus accompanied by a precipitous increase in Palestinian terrorism.

The more Israel made concessions to the Palestinians – the creation of the Palestinian Authority (PA), the granting to PLO leadership and major Palestinian terrorists entrance into the West Bank and Gaza and even Israel – the higher the terrorist toll climbed. In 1992, when the Palestinians realized Israel was going to withdraw from Gaza to make way for some kind of Palestinian autonomy, the number of Israelis killed jumped from 11 the previous year to 34. After the signing of the Declaration of Principles and the establishment of the PA in the summer of 1994, that figure nearly doubled (61). When the PA was expanded in 1995 to include the major Arab towns in the West Bank, they killed 65 people, mostly as a result of three suicide bombings. The towns had become terrorist sanctuaries into which the IDF could not enter for fear of international condemnation.


----------



## Hollie

As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others. 

It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely. 

The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out. 





Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel

The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.

The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.

Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.

"We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.

The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others.
> 
> It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely.
> 
> The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel
> 
> The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.
> 
> The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.
> 
> Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.
> 
> "We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.


The group also called for the establishment of a national unity government, halting security coordination with occupying forces and the release of political detainees.​
Security coordination has been the holdup in all of the reconciliation attempts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others.
> 
> It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely.
> 
> The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel
> 
> The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.
> 
> The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.
> 
> Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.
> 
> "We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.
> 
> 
> 
> The group also called for the establishment of a national unity government, halting security coordination with occupying forces and the release of political detainees.​
> Security coordination has been the holdup in all of the reconciliation attempts.
Click to expand...


Competing interests for UNRWA welfare dollars is the holdup.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others.
> 
> It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely.
> 
> The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel
> 
> The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.
> 
> The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.
> 
> Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.
> 
> "We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.
> 
> 
> 
> The group also called for the establishment of a national unity government, halting security coordination with occupying forces and the release of political detainees.​
> Security coordination has been the holdup in all of the reconciliation attempts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Competing interests for UNRWA welfare dollars is the holdup.
Click to expand...

UNRWA does not give out cash.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others.
> 
> It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely.
> 
> The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel
> 
> The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.
> 
> The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.
> 
> Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.
> 
> "We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.
> 
> 
> 
> The group also called for the establishment of a national unity government, halting security coordination with occupying forces and the release of political detainees.​
> Security coordination has been the holdup in all of the reconciliation attempts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Competing interests for UNRWA welfare dollars is the holdup.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA does not give out cash.
Click to expand...


Cash Assistance


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others.
> 
> It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely.
> 
> The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel
> 
> The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.
> 
> The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.
> 
> Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.
> 
> "We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.
> 
> 
> 
> The group also called for the establishment of a national unity government, halting security coordination with occupying forces and the release of political detainees.​
> Security coordination has been the holdup in all of the reconciliation attempts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Competing interests for UNRWA welfare dollars is the holdup.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA does not give out cash.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cash Assistance
Click to expand...

Small amounts are given directly to the people. None goes to government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it would be expected from those who suffer from confusion and irrational behavior, the Arabs-Moslems are getting more reactive and becoming a greater danger to themselves and others.
> 
> It seems that Abbas is completely flummoxed as he watches his welfare fraud entitlement slipping away. While Qatar is currently hosing down Abbas with cash, that can’t continue indefinitely.
> 
> The decision by Abbas to “suspend all agreements signed with Israel”, whatever that means, seems like a pointless gesture. Abbas is like an angry child lashing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas backs Abbas’ move to suspend deals with Israel
> 
> The Hamas resistance group said Thursday it supported Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to suspend all agreements signed with Israel.
> 
> The Gaza-based group said in a written statement that the Ramallah-based government’s decision was “a step taken in right direction”.
> 
> Abbas announced earlier in the day that all agreements signed with Israel have been suspended.
> 
> "We will not bow to dictates and imposing a fait accompli by force in Jerusalem and elsewhere," he said, apparently in reference to the Israeli government’s recent demolition of dozens of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Hamas movement also said the decision was in line with the “tough process” which the Palestinian cause is going through.
> 
> 
> 
> The group also called for the establishment of a national unity government, halting security coordination with occupying forces and the release of political detainees.​
> Security coordination has been the holdup in all of the reconciliation attempts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Competing interests for UNRWA welfare dollars is the holdup.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA does not give out cash.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cash Assistance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Small amounts are given directly to the people. None goes to government.
Click to expand...


Syria | UNRWA

UNRWA runs one of the largest cash programmes in the world in an active conflict setting and provides over 400,000 Palestine refugees with cash assistance. This has a profound effect on poverty levels; a 2017 UNRWA vulnerability survey showed that cash assistance reduced the number of Palestine refugees living in absolute poverty (less than US$ 2 a day) from 90 to 74 per cent of the population.  Unfortunately, due to a lack of funding, UNRWA has had to reduce both the amount and frequency of its cash distribution in 2018.


----------



## Hollie

More angry bluster coming from Hamas urging the competing mini-caliphate to sever cooperation with Israel. 

It appears to me that both mini-caliphates are approaching panic mode as their UNRWA welfare endowment is losing donors and the primary beneficiaries of those welfare dollars face the prospect of their personal fortunes at risk. 





Hamas Urges Abbas to Follow Through, Cut Off Cooperation With Israel | Hamodia.com
ISRAEL
*Hamas Urges Abbas to Follow Through, Cut Off Cooperation With Israel*

By Dov Benovadia

Friday, July 26, 2019 at 3:37 am | כ"ג תמוז תשע"ט



Palestinian Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. (Reuters/Mohamad Torokman)
*YERUSHALAYIM* -
Hamas on Friday called on Palestinian Authority chief Mahmoud Abbas to follow through on his declaration Thursday night that the PA would end all cooperation with Israel in the wake of the demolition of illegally built Arab homes near Yerushalayim. “The time has come to put words into actions,” Hamas said in a statement. “We look forward to the ending of all cooperation with Israel, which will allow the Palestinian people to declare their freedom from the occupation.”


----------



## Hollie

With the Sunni Arab nations keeping something of a hands off approach to the bottomless pit of _want_ that is Pal’istanians, Hamas is looking for new friends to exploit.






Hamas, let down by the Gulf states, revisits ties with Syria


RAMALLAH, West Bank — Hamas leaders have recently been probing the restoration of ties with Syria, with Iran and the Lebanese Hezbollah serving as mediators. According to the Gaza newspaper Al-Quds, Hamas political bureau chief Ismail Haniyeh told Turkish journalists during a July 20 conference call that he hopes relations with Damascus can be “repaired and rebuilt.” Haniyeh said that the resumption of ties with Syria has been under discussion across the movement’s institutions.


----------



## Hollie

Your daily dose conspiracy theory musings from the folks who brought you Dalia Mughrabi





GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — The Palestinian government in the West Bank is rejecting plans for a new field hospital in the Gaza Strip — plans that it considers part of a US-Israeli conspiracy to thwart a Palestinian reconciliation.

During its weekly session July 8, the Palestinian government said, “The hospital that Israel and the US are seeking to establish on the northern border of the Gaza Strip is part of ongoing attempts to separate the Gaza Strip and the West Bank under humanitarian pretexts."




Read more: Hamas, Israel agree on Gaza hospital, vexing Shtayyeh


----------



## Hollie

Those “Poor, Oppressed Arabs-Moslems”. They're such delicate flowers.





Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis

Journalists and activists accuse the social media giant of ‘waging war on the Palestinians,’ Israel has long accused it of not doing enough to combat incitement


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Violence and Terrorism Against Israel, 2018: Data, Nature and Trends - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center

The ITIC’s annual study indicates that in 2018 there were two main trends prominent in Palestinian violence and terrorism: in the Gaza Strip there was a sharp increase in the level of violence and terrorism, after about three and a half years of relative quiet after Operation Protective Edge. One of the manifestations was 1,119 rocket and mortar shell hits in Israeli territory, the highest annual number in the past ten years (with the exception of Operation Protective Edge). In Judea and Samaria popular terrorism continued in its various forms, primarily stabbing, vehicular and shooting attacks. After popular terrorism peaked in 2015 its scope decreased, but in the last months of 2018 there was an increase in the number of attacks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palestinian Violence and Terrorism Against Israel, 2018: Data, Nature and Trends - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
> 
> The ITIC’s annual study indicates that in 2018 there were two main trends prominent in Palestinian violence and terrorism: in the Gaza Strip there was a sharp increase in the level of violence and terrorism, after about three and a half years of relative quiet after Operation Protective Edge. One of the manifestations was 1,119 rocket and mortar shell hits in Israeli territory, the highest annual number in the past ten years (with the exception of Operation Protective Edge). In Judea and Samaria popular terrorism continued in its various forms, primarily stabbing, vehicular and shooting attacks. After popular terrorism peaked in 2015 its scope decreased, but in the last months of 2018 there was an increase in the number of attacks.


Where is the Israeli violence against the Palestinians?

Or is this just another Israeli propaganda site?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Violence and Terrorism Against Israel, 2018: Data, Nature and Trends - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
> 
> The ITIC’s annual study indicates that in 2018 there were two main trends prominent in Palestinian violence and terrorism: in the Gaza Strip there was a sharp increase in the level of violence and terrorism, after about three and a half years of relative quiet after Operation Protective Edge. One of the manifestations was 1,119 rocket and mortar shell hits in Israeli territory, the highest annual number in the past ten years (with the exception of Operation Protective Edge). In Judea and Samaria popular terrorism continued in its various forms, primarily stabbing, vehicular and shooting attacks. After popular terrorism peaked in 2015 its scope decreased, but in the last months of 2018 there was an increase in the number of attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the Israeli violence against the Palestinians?
> 
> Or is this just another Israeli propaganda site?
Click to expand...


Where is the Israeli violence against the Arabs-Moslems?

Or is your question just another circular argument?


----------



## Hollie

_Peaceful Protests_ ™️ are all fun and games until someone loses their gee-had credentials. 



*IDF reportedly kills Palestinian rioter on Gaza border
*
*Hamas-run health ministry says Ahmed al-Qarra, 23, was shot in stomach as 4,500 took part in weekly protests, throwing explosive devices, firebombs and stones*
Today, 2:50 am  2




Palestinians rioters clash with Israeli forces on the border near Gaza City, July 2


----------



## Hollie

HAMAS USES CHILDREN FOR TERRORISM


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Saturday, Director of Human Rights Watch Ken Roth met with Palestinian prime minister Mohammed Shtayyeh.

While smiling, Shtayyeh informed Roth that the Palestinian Authority will no longer arrest people for political speech. 

Today I met with a senior delegation from HRW, headed by @kenroth and confirmed my government’s commitment to/ guarantee of the right of Palestinian citizens to free speech through constructive criticism. In this regard I emphasised that no arrests or persecution will happen.


Roth appreciated the "pledge."

For some reason, Roth - a supposed defender of human rights - didn't seem to ask for the Palestinian leaders to drop the laws on their books that allow them to arrest anyone for anything they write online that might be considered offensive to the government.

This 2017 law is so vague as to allow the arrest of anyone for pretty much anything:

(full article online)

Palestinian prime minister lies to @HRW's Ken Roth about freedom of expression. He believes it. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ I think I found a concentration camp where the Palestinians live, and are not allowed to leave]

Secretary General of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) – Saeb Erekat – has told a political symposium in Jericho that West Bank Arabs would not be allowed to voluntarily leave – virtually holding them captives against their will.


PLO blocks West Bank Arabs leaving for a better life.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jewish Child Hurt by PA Terrorists in Samaria Stone-Throwing Attack


----------



## Hollie

I would really like to see some action by the Great Satan on submitting a formal extradition request.  





New York Rabbis Join Call for Congressional Investigation Into Fugitive Hamas Terrorist Living Freely in Jordan

JULY 26, 2019 2:04 PM





The FBI’s wanted poster for Hamas terrorist Ahlam al-Tamimi. Photo: Screenshot.

A group of prominent New York rabbis has joined the call for the US Congress to formally investigate why a Department of Justice extradition request for a Hamas terrorist living in Jordan remains outstanding more than two years after it was unsealed.


----------



## Hollie

Summer camp fun at the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth.

Is it any wonder that the society is dysfunctional and suffers from a shared pathology?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rewarding Palestinian child exploitation: Janna Jihad goes to Congress


----------



## Sixties Fan

In recent days, Saudi blogger Mohammed Said, who was touring the State of Israel as a guest of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, was attacked, spit on and cursed by Palestinian Arabs while touring the Temple Mount. 

Saud was attacked merely because he is an Arab media personality who supports the State of Israel.  He was told by local Palestinians, “Go to a synagogue.”  Local Palestinian Arabs also called him “an animal” and “Zionist trash.”  Chairs were even thrown at him. 


In response, a group of Saudis, enraged by how local Palestinian Arabs treated Said, beat up a group of them on the Temple Mount.  The question is, what stands behind these Saudi protesters' anger at the Palestinians?

In an exclusive interview, Syrian analyst Wael Ashaq explained that many people in Saudi Arabia despise how the Palestinian Authority is assisting the Assad regime: “They only care about what is good for them.  They don’t care about the millions killed every day by the Assad regime.  If we look at the issue historically, the Palestinians went everywhere in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan and created many problems and troubles.  We as Syrians helped the Palestinians but when we have a problem with our dictator, they stand with this terrorist regime and help them politically as well as militarily.  This is true for both Fatah and Hamas.  They are both the same on this.” 

(full article online)

Why a group of Saudis beat up Palestinians on the Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Attempts to Conceal UK-Based Operative Joining its Russia Delegation


----------



## Hollie

Postal gee-had.

Time to take away their stamps and give them a time-out until they can behave like rational humans.




https://www.google.com/amp/s/aawsat.com/english/home/article/1834391/hamas-uses-parcels-new-weapon-war?amp

Monday, 29 July, 2019 - 08:30
_




Tel Aviv - Asharq Al-Awsat_



Tel Aviv - Asharq Al-Awsat
Hamas movement continues to develop its military capabilities despite negotiations with Israel for a long-term truce, security sources in Tel Aviv have revealed.


----------



## Hollie

It seems rather ungrateful of the Arabs-Moslems to question the actions of Dictator for Life Mahmoud. After all he's done for them, the sacrifices he's made.


*



Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers

Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers - PMW Bulletins*

By Maurice Hirsch, Adv
The PA is in such a deep (self-inflicted) financial crisis that it has paid its civil servants only 60% of their salary since February. Yet PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas seems to have enough money to pay for the weddings of 90 Palestinian and Syrian grooms who married together under Abbas' auspices. The goal of the PA funding was to show "the entire world that the PLO is the sponsor of our people wherever it is located."

"A group wedding of 90 Palestinian and Syrian grooms was held yesterday evening, Thursday [July 25, 2019], in Damascus, the capital of Syria, under the auspices of [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas.
Director of the PLO Political Department in Syria Anwar Abd Al-Hadi... noted that the [PA] presidential grant was distributed to the grooms in order to help them begin new lives, and added that this also constitutes a message to the entire world that the PLO is the sponsor of our people wherever it is located."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 26, 2019]


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian support for the Al-Assad Syrian regime is not new. When the US, the UK, and France launched missile strikes on three chemical weapons facilities in Syria on April 14, 2018, in response to Syrian President Bashar Assad's chemical attacks on civilians in Douma on April 7, 2018, it was Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party that came to the defense of Syria saying:

"The tripartite military attack on the land of the Arab republic of Syria constitutes illegal use of military force, as it took place without a mandate from the [UN] Security Council...
Fatah... stands firmly alongside the brother members of the Syrian people in their time of trouble, and absolutely adheres to maintaining Syria's unity and territorial integrity."
                                                           [Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Apr. 15, 2018

(full article online)

Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

There has been skepticism about whether Abbas will actually do anything new.

Fathini, speaking to  Voice of Palestine radio, said the PA is trying to end the economic relationship with Israel, and gave as his first example stopping medical transfers of patients to Israel.

Yes, the first thing the benevolent PA decides to do to cut ties is to screw the people who need Israel the most!

Of course, this decision was made back in March. Even then the Palestinian Ministry of Health said that the decision was difficult for patients as it was left to scramble for adequate facilities in Egypt, Jordan or in private Palestinian hospitals to handle the patients.

At that time, the decision was framed as a punishment for Israel, but it saved the PA a hundred million dollars a year.

In other words, the PA wants to appear independent from Israel and the very first way it decides to do that is to throw the people who need Israeli help the most under the bus - for "dignity" reasons.

What could be more dignified than to make the principled decision to sacrifice other people's lives for your cause?

(full article online)

Palestinian official says ties to Israel are being cut - citing stopping medical transfers as #1 on the list! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

So far, the UK is getting it right. 



UK Minister Confirms Existing Terror Sanctions on Hamas Will Remain in Place Post-Brexit

In a letter to Board of Deputies of British Jews Chief Executive Gillian Merron, Minister of State for the Middle East and North Africa Andrew Murrison wrote, “I can confirm that, as the Prime Minister has set out, we will look to carry over existing sanctions at the point of our departure.”


----------



## Hollie

I might have been busy with something not very important but the Arab-Moslem government apparently resigned earlier this year. I don't think anyone noticed.


----------



## Hollie

Aww, gee. Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are upset that the kuffar doesn’t want their technology to be used to advance Islamic terrorism. 



Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis

Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis

Journalists and activists accuse the social media giant of ‘waging war on the Palestinians,’ Israel has long accused it of not doing enough to combat incitement


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It seems rather ungrateful of the Arabs-Moslems to question the actions of Dictator for Life Mahmoud. After all he's done for them, the sacrifices he's made.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers
> 
> Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv
> The PA is in such a deep (self-inflicted) financial crisis that it has paid its civil servants only 60% of their salary since February. Yet PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas seems to have enough money to pay for the weddings of 90 Palestinian and Syrian grooms who married together under Abbas' auspices. The goal of the PA funding was to show "the entire world that the PLO is the sponsor of our people wherever it is located."
> 
> "A group wedding of 90 Palestinian and Syrian grooms was held yesterday evening, Thursday [July 25, 2019], in Damascus, the capital of Syria, under the auspices of [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas.
> Director of the PLO Political Department in Syria Anwar Abd Al-Hadi... noted that the [PA] presidential grant was distributed to the grooms in order to help them begin new lives, and added that this also constitutes a message to the entire world that the PLO is the sponsor of our people wherever it is located."
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 26, 2019]





Hollie said:


> It seems rather ungrateful of the Arabs-Moslems to question the actions of Dictator for Life Mahmoud. After all he's done for them, the sacrifices he's made.


The vast majority of Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. The US keeps him in place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems rather ungrateful of the Arabs-Moslems to question the actions of Dictator for Life Mahmoud. After all he's done for them, the sacrifices he's made.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers
> 
> Abbas' bizarre use of the empty Palestinian coffers - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> By Maurice Hirsch, Adv
> The PA is in such a deep (self-inflicted) financial crisis that it has paid its civil servants only 60% of their salary since February. Yet PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas seems to have enough money to pay for the weddings of 90 Palestinian and Syrian grooms who married together under Abbas' auspices. The goal of the PA funding was to show "the entire world that the PLO is the sponsor of our people wherever it is located."
> 
> "A group wedding of 90 Palestinian and Syrian grooms was held yesterday evening, Thursday [July 25, 2019], in Damascus, the capital of Syria, under the auspices of [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas.
> Director of the PLO Political Department in Syria Anwar Abd Al-Hadi... noted that the [PA] presidential grant was distributed to the grooms in order to help them begin new lives, and added that this also constitutes a message to the entire world that the PLO is the sponsor of our people wherever it is located."
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 26, 2019]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems rather ungrateful of the Arabs-Moslems to question the actions of Dictator for Life Mahmoud. After all he's done for them, the sacrifices he's made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The vast majority of Palestinians have wanted him to leave for many years. The US keeps him in place.
Click to expand...


Another of your goofy conspiracy theories. You need some new excuses for Arab-Moslem failures.


----------



## Hollie

I found it shocking (Shocking I tell'ya), that one of the layers of Arab-Moslem bloated, irrelevant bureaucracies - too many to count - has rejected elections.

Dictators don't need no steenkin' elections.



Hamas: PLO factions rejected municipal elections in Gaza
July 30, 2019 at 9:31 am

Hamas yesterday said that PLO factions had rejected carrying out municipal elections in Gaza, _Al-Watan Voice_ reported.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Jazeera archaeologist implies Palestinians have been around for 100,000 years ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Another Hudna moment ]

The play was never written. The actress never intended to perform. There was never meant to be a Q&A afterwards with Israel hater Ben White.

 The cancellation was the show, to get people to be upset - and to direct their anger not at Amnesty or Masoud but at Israel.

Amnesty willingly participated in this anti-Israel scam.

Is it appropriate for a human rights organization to actively deceive thousands of people, to lie in order to make people hate Israel?

When you think about it, this is what Amnesty does all the time anyway. Their "Gaza Platform" remains on its site with hundreds of examples of "civilians" killed by Israel who were actually terrorists, even according to the UN and B'Tselem. Their reports are filled with anti-Israel lies that they never correct - they know they are lying to manipulate people to hate Israel.

So putting on a fake play fits in exactly with Amnesty's playbook of making up lies to incite people against Israel.

(full article online)

Amnesty takes part in publicity stunt, "hosting" a play that was never written, to get people to hate Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It seems Lebanon is dealing with the Pal'istanian rabal in their "refugee" camps. The Pals' are making it known that they have certain entitlements which the Lebanese government needs to provide. 

The Lebanese government is dealing with their version of "peaceful protests" by the Pals'. 




Hamas backs Palestinian protests in Lebanon - Politics - ANSAMed

TUESDAY, 30 JULY 2019 | 14:25

*Hamas backs Palestinian protests in Lebanon*
*Restrictions in labor market, Abbas sends mediator*

(ANSAmed) - GAZA, JULY 30 - Protests in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon have been underway for days amid tension over new measures that may restrict job possibilities for those living in them and Hamas has now said that it supports the demonstrators. The Gaza-based group encouraged the Palestinians in Lebanon to ''continue their peaceful protests''. ''We reject,'' Hamas said in a statement, ''any measure that threatens Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and their rights.'' The reference is to a request by the Lebanese government for all foreign workers to acquire specific work permits. Hamas said that Palestinians are refugees and not 'foreign workers' and that they thus have the right to a specific treatment.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Now isn't that interesting.



Hollie said:


> It seems Lebanon is dealing with the Pal'istanian rabal in their "refugee" camps. The Pals' are making it known that they have certain entitlements which the Lebanese government needs to provide.
> •
> •
> •
> ''We reject,'' Hamas said in a statement, ''any measure that threatens Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and their rights.''
> •
> •
> •
> The reference is to a request by the Lebanese government for all foreign workers to acquire specific work permits.  Hamas said that *Palestinians are refugees and not 'foreign workers'* and that they thus *have the right to a specific treatmen*t.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, this is very interesting.

Normally, when we talk about the “Palestine refugees,” we are referring to those Arab Palestinians who were registered with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for the Palestine refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) using the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions _(CERI, 2006)_ criteria.   And in that criteria • • • specifically, include descendants.  The eligibility criteria for a refugee in the UNRWA is NOT the same as the definition under the convention (Article 1D).

But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance.   The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.

What is so interesting is that the Lebanese Government is choosing to apply the criteria that the Arab Palestinians are not considered a refugee by definition under the convention _(since it does not apply)_; and as such, are foreign workers. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now isn't that interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems Lebanon is dealing with the Pal'istanian rabal in their "refugee" camps. The Pals' are making it known that they have certain entitlements which the Lebanese government needs to provide.
> •
> •
> •
> ''We reject,'' Hamas said in a statement, ''any measure that threatens Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and their rights.''
> •
> •
> •
> The reference is to a request by the Lebanese government for all foreign workers to acquire specific work permits.  Hamas said that *Palestinians are refugees and not 'foreign workers'* and that they thus *have the right to a specific treatmen*t.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is very interesting.
> 
> Normally, when we talk about the “Palestine refugees,” we are referring to those Arab Palestinians who were registered with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for the Palestine refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) using the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions _(CERI, 2006)_ criteria.   And in that criteria • • • specifically, include descendants.  The eligibility criteria for a refugee in the UNRWA is NOT the same as the definition under the convention (Article 1D).
> 
> But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance.   The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> What is so interesting is that the Lebanese Government is choosing to apply the criteria that the Arab Palestinians are not considered a refugee by definition under the convention _(since it does not apply)_; and as such, are foreign workers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance. The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.


Good information on the status of Palestinian refugees.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now isn't that interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems Lebanon is dealing with the Pal'istanian rabal in their "refugee" camps. The Pals' are making it known that they have certain entitlements which the Lebanese government needs to provide.
> •
> •
> •
> ''We reject,'' Hamas said in a statement, ''any measure that threatens Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and their rights.''
> •
> •
> •
> The reference is to a request by the Lebanese government for all foreign workers to acquire specific work permits.  Hamas said that *Palestinians are refugees and not 'foreign workers'* and that they thus *have the right to a specific treatmen*t.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is very interesting.
> 
> Normally, when we talk about the “Palestine refugees,” we are referring to those Arab Palestinians who were registered with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for the Palestine refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) using the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions _(CERI, 2006)_ criteria.   And in that criteria • • • specifically, include descendants.  The eligibility criteria for a refugee in the UNRWA is NOT the same as the definition under the convention (Article 1D).
> 
> But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance.   The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> What is so interesting is that the Lebanese Government is choosing to apply the criteria that the Arab Palestinians are not considered a refugee by definition under the convention _(since it does not apply)_; and as such, are foreign workers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance. The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good information on the status of Palestinian refugees.
Click to expand...



Your perceived entitlement as a falsely labeled “refugee” does not supersede Lebanon’s domestic law.


----------



## Hollie

With this kind of open incitement, it will be interesting to see if this particular Islamic terrorist goes the way of a Hellfire missile Early Retirement Package. 





Hamas official calls for attacks in Judea and Samaria

A member of Hamas political bureau calls on PA to give green light to the organizations fighting to respond to "occupation crimes."

Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau and one of the leaders of the group in the Gaza Strip, on Tuesday called on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to give the Palestinian “resistance organizations” the green light to act in the “West Bank” in response to the "occupation crimes" and its actions in “occupied al-Quds”, meaning Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With this kind of open incitement, it will be interesting to see if this particular Islamic terrorist goes the way of a Hellfire missile Early Retirement Package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official calls for attacks in Judea and Samaria
> 
> A member of Hamas political bureau calls on PA to give green light to the organizations fighting to respond to "occupation crimes."
> 
> Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau and one of the leaders of the group in the Gaza Strip, on Tuesday called on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to give the Palestinian “resistance organizations” the green light to act in the “West Bank” in response to the "occupation crimes" and its actions in “occupied al-Quds”, meaning Jerusalem.


The governments won't do anything about Israeli criminals.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now isn't that interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems Lebanon is dealing with the Pal'istanian rabal in their "refugee" camps. The Pals' are making it known that they have certain entitlements which the Lebanese government needs to provide.
> •
> •
> •
> ''We reject,'' Hamas said in a statement, ''any measure that threatens Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and their rights.''
> •
> •
> •
> The reference is to a request by the Lebanese government for all foreign workers to acquire specific work permits.  Hamas said that *Palestinians are refugees and not 'foreign workers'* and that they thus *have the right to a specific treatmen*t.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is very interesting.
> 
> Normally, when we talk about the “Palestine refugees,” we are referring to those Arab Palestinians who were registered with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for the Palestine refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) using the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions _(CERI, 2006)_ criteria.   And in that criteria • • • specifically, include descendants.  The eligibility criteria for a refugee in the UNRWA is NOT the same as the definition under the convention (Article 1D).
> 
> But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance.   The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> What is so interesting is that the Lebanese Government is choosing to apply the criteria that the Arab Palestinians are not considered a refugee by definition under the convention _(since it does not apply)_; and as such, are foreign workers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Arab Palestinians are not covered by the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees since they are already receiving assistance from the UNRWA and NOT the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance. The Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good information on the status of Palestinian refugees.
Click to expand...


This is another of the silly YouTube videos you have cut and pasted multiple times. 

A waste of time and bandwidth.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With this kind of open incitement, it will be interesting to see if this particular Islamic terrorist goes the way of a Hellfire missile Early Retirement Package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official calls for attacks in Judea and Samaria
> 
> A member of Hamas political bureau calls on PA to give green light to the organizations fighting to respond to "occupation crimes."
> 
> Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau and one of the leaders of the group in the Gaza Strip, on Tuesday called on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to give the Palestinian “resistance organizations” the green light to act in the “West Bank” in response to the "occupation crimes" and its actions in “occupied al-Quds”, meaning Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> The governments won't do anything about Israeli criminals.
Click to expand...


What governments and what Israeli crimes?

You’re rattling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With this kind of open incitement, it will be interesting to see if this particular Islamic terrorist goes the way of a Hellfire missile Early Retirement Package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official calls for attacks in Judea and Samaria
> 
> A member of Hamas political bureau calls on PA to give green light to the organizations fighting to respond to "occupation crimes."
> 
> Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau and one of the leaders of the group in the Gaza Strip, on Tuesday called on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to give the Palestinian “resistance organizations” the green light to act in the “West Bank” in response to the "occupation crimes" and its actions in “occupied al-Quds”, meaning Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> The governments won't do anything about Israeli criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What governments and what Israeli crimes?
> 
> You’re rattling.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With this kind of open incitement, it will be interesting to see if this particular Islamic terrorist goes the way of a Hellfire missile Early Retirement Package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official calls for attacks in Judea and Samaria
> 
> A member of Hamas political bureau calls on PA to give green light to the organizations fighting to respond to "occupation crimes."
> 
> Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau and one of the leaders of the group in the Gaza Strip, on Tuesday called on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to give the Palestinian “resistance organizations” the green light to act in the “West Bank” in response to the "occupation crimes" and its actions in “occupied al-Quds”, meaning Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> The governments won't do anything about Israeli criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What governments and what Israeli crimes?
> 
> You’re rattling.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Your usual cartoon responses. 

I asked you for specifics and you fail to provide a supportable argument.


----------



## Hollie

I was disappointed with the linked article as there wasn't any detail as to who was replaced and who the replacements are.

In the realm of dictatorships, you expect the replacement mouthpieces to be those from within the small, ideogical circle of dictator enablers.

I'm curious to see if Iran had a hand in the purge and if the replacements are those that the Iranian Mullocrats can use for more influence.



Facing ongoing failure, Hamas replaces officials in Gaza

Arab-Israeli Conflict
13:38 | 07/31/19

FACING ONGOING FAILURE, HAMAS REPLACES OFFICIALS IN GAZA
By HAGAY HACOHEN
_





Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh next to his destroyed office (REUTERS/Handout). (photo credit:" HANDOUT/REUTERS)
'Al Akhbar' newspaper suggested the reasons for the changes are the failure of attempts to resolve the clash with Fatah, which controls parts of the West Bank, and severe criticism leveled at Hamas.

The Hamas terrorist group replaced top officials in the mechanism it uses to run the Gaza Strip, Channel 7 reported on Wednesday citing the Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar. 
_


----------



## Sixties Fan

On 17th anniversary of Hebrew University bombing: PA has already paid the murderers over 4.3 million shekels - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian media considers accurate history to be "incitement" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ForeverYoung436

How typical of the Palestinians!  A pipe bomb was found by the Israeli authorities at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus today.  Fortunately, it was detonated in a controlled area before it could do any damage.  The holy Tomb had already been destroyed by the Arabs several times (and then rebuilt) since the Oslo Accords, when some territory had been ceded to these animals.  Since Muslims believe that Joseph is buried in Hebron, what do they care about the holy sites of others?  As for this latest incident, as if the bomb weren't enough, they burned tires and threw rocks at the Jewish worshippers. 
During his lifetime, Joseph was sold as a slave and thrown into prison.  Now, even in death, the Arabs prevent Joseph from resting in peace.


----------



## Hollie

If the linked article is to be taken as Israeli policy to the next skirmish with the Shia Iranian backed Islamic terrorists in Gaza, the next skirmish could result in a lot of high explosive landscaping across Gaza’istan. 

Assuming the Israelis are not going to allow another barrage of 700 rockets to reign down on its cities, I have to presume that the IDF is going to develop a major air and artillery campaign to saturate Gaza with a major Islamic terrorist beatdown.  



https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/IDF...e-short-but-deal-massive-blow-to-Hamas-597293

The next war with terrorist groups in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip will last shorter than Protective Edge and will see the Israeli army deal a massive blow to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

The IDF has faced increasing criticism following allegations by former military ombudsman Maj.-Gen. (res.) Yitzhak Brick who warned that the military, especially the ground forces, are not prepared for a large-scale war.

But the military says it has learned the lessons from the over-50-day Operation Protective Edge in 2014 as well as the numerous rounds of violence over the past year. The IDF says it has the capabilities and intelligence to inflict severe damage to terrorist groups in a short amount of time, should a war break out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The P.A. has seemed, since Oslo, to view all agreements with Israel as fundamentally optional, except when Israel’s obligations are in question. The most glaring examples: Yasser Arafat’s orchestration of the Second Intifada in 2000, and the continuance of the hateful classroom indoctrination of Palestinian youth in blatant violation of the Oslo Accords, which Arafat signed.

But the Palestinian disdain for the entire “peace process” is even more foundational than these egregious behaviors that violate the letter and spirit of the agreements.

In 1964, three years before the Six-Day War and Israel’s retaking control of the West Bank, the founders of the Palestine Liberation Organization ratified the Palestinian National Covenant as a constitution. Note that this original document disavowed any interest at all in “liberating” the West Bank, seized by Jordan in 1949, or the Gaza Strip, which was occupied by Egypt.

(full article online)

Palestinians threaten to void agreements with Israel? No big deal


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied. Another Hamas member (Iranian stooge), has reached retirement age.



*https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/01/palestinian-shot-dead-after-wounding-israeli-soldiers-in-gaza*

Israeli military said man was Hamas member but ‘not sent on an attack mission’

Oliver Holmes in Jerusalem

Thu 1 Aug 2019 04.55 EDTLast modified on Thu 1 Aug 2019 05.20


----------



## Hollie

The wannabe ISIS groupie wants to return to the good life in Israel. 

Hey, what could go wrong?


Captured Israeli-Arab ISIS fighter Sayyaf Sharif Daoud said in a July 31, 2019 interview on Al-Arabiya Network (Saudi Arabia) that only God knows if ISIS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi was "created" by the Mossad, and he said that Al-Baghdadi was known for listening to those around him rather than having his own opinions.


Video:
"Captured Israeli Arab ISIS Fighter Sayyaf Sharif Daoud Asks Netanyahu to Let Him Return to Israel, Says ISIS Is Stronger than It Was"


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Hamas Appreciation Month' at NY Times?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Apparently after 1948, women’s involvement in the public sphere may have disappeared when the Judea and Samaria region was under Jordanian (Arab) occupation and Gaza under Egyptian (Arab) occupation. It only seems to have risen again after Israel regained control...

(full article online)

How does Israel violate the Rights of PA Women? Let me count the ways


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist border riots are continuing apace with the expected result of Arabs-Moslems finding that the gee-had has a lot of negative consequences.


*https://www.timesofisrael.com/4500-protest-at-gaza-border-rioters-hurl-explosive-devices-toward-idf-troops/*

51 Palestinians said injured at demonstrations, 24 of them as a result of IDF fire, after Thursday firefight between Palestinian gunman and Israeli soldiers
Today, 6:43 pmUpdated at 8:13 pm  2




Palestinians protesters clash with Israeli forces during demonstrations at the Israel-Gaza border, near Shuja'iyya neighborhood of Gaza City, August 2, 2019 (Hassan Jedi/Flash90)
Some 6,000 Palestinians gathered near the Gaza Strip’s border with Israel Friday to take part in weekly protests near the fence.


----------



## Hollie

Another Hamas official slathering praise on his Shia hero. 

That will go over real well in the Sunni world.
_


Al-Arouri also praised Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, whom he met during his visit to Iran, and he expressed his gratitude for Khamenei's support of the Palestinians. He said that Khamenei is a great leader who is "second to none" in the Islamic world._

Video:
"Hamas Official Saleh Al-Arouri on Iranian TV: Iran, Hizbullah Have Helped the Palestinian Resistance Advance; Khamenei Is the Greatest Leader in the Islamic World"


----------



## Hollie

It appears that one or more groups in Lebanon have the idea that “nip it in the bud” is the way to deal with their “Pal’istanian” rabal rousing antagonists.



Clashes in Palestinian camp in Lebanon after ex-Fatah official’s son shot dead

Witnesses say masked gunman killed Hussein Alaa-Eddine while he was participating in protest against new Lebanese labor rules that force Palestinians to get work permits.

BEIRUT — Lebanon’s state-run news agency said gunmen exchanged fire in the country’s largest Palestinian refugee camp, located near the southern port city of Sidon.

The National News Agency said Friday’s clashes broke out in Ein el-Hilweh after the son of a former official with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah group was shot dead.


----------



## Hollie

Just more of the violence and behaviors that define the Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians”.

Maybe the swastika they were flying was a tribute to the folks with whom they share some common attributes.



6,000 protest at Gaza border, rioters hurl explosive devices toward IDF troops

6,000 protest at Gaza border, rioters hurl explosive devices toward IDF troops


51 Palestinians said injured at demonstrations, 24 of them as a result of IDF fire, after Thursday firefight between Palestinian gunman and Israeli soldiers.


Israel Defense Forces
on Friday


The Nazi Swastika flag, a symbol of murder and hatred, raised yet again during a Hamas riot in Gaza today.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, Pal’istanians. It seems they’re running out of friends in the Sunni Arab world. Could that have any connection to their doe-eyed fawning of the Shia Iranians? 




Palestinians in bid to avert ‘real crisis’ with Saudi Arabia

Amid mounting tensions between the Palestinians and Saudi Arabia, the Palestinian Authority is considering dispatching a senior delegation to Riyadh for urgent talks with members of the Saudi royal family and government officials on ways to avert a further deterioration.

There seems to be one problem, however: the Saudis are not responding to Palestinian requests to arrange such a visit.

“We’re in the midst of a real crisis with Saudi Arabia,” a PA official told The Jerusalem Post. “They seem to be very angry with us.”
Palestinian-Saudi relations hit a snag about two years ago, mainly over the kingdom’s close ties with US President Donald Trump’s administration and Riyadh’s apparent rapprochement with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Bit by bit, donors to the UNRWA welfare fraud / Islamic terrorist syndicate that maintains a criminal enterprise are stepping back from dumping money into that fraud. 



BELGIUM SUSPENDS UNRWA FUNDS FOLLOWING REPORTS OF ETHICAL MISCONDUCT

Belgium suspends UNRWA funds following reports of ethical misconduct

The Netherlands and Switzerland have also suspended payments pending the results of the investigation.

Belgium has temporarily suspended its funding to UNRWA, following reports of a UN investigation into ethical misconduct among its senior staff, according to Israel’s Embassy in Belgium.

The embassy tweeted about the suspension on Friday, quoting from Belgian Minister of Finance and Development Cooperation, Alexander De Croo, who stated, “If the accusations are true, it’s completely unacceptable.”


----------



## Hollie

With the majority Sunni Arabs seeing the dreaded Shia Crescent expanding into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and now the Gaza mini-caliphate, I have to believe it’s only a matter of time before these angry throwbacks square off with military hardware. 


Cairo wary of Hamas reviving ties with Tehran | Amr Emam | AW

CAIRO - Egyptian political analysts warned of an increase of Iranian influence in the Gaza Strip, referring to potential instability in the region and deterioration of relations between Hamas and Egypt.

“The return of Iranian influence to the Gaza Strip will adversely affect the region,” political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan said. “Apart from potentially ending the calm between Hamas and Israel, this influence will harm Egypt’s relations with Hamas.”

Egypt watched closely as a delegation from Hamas visited Tehran on July 20, the first such trip since December 2017. The delegation was led by Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh al-Arouri.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With the majority Sunni Arabs seeing the dreaded Shia Crescent expanding into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and now the Gaza mini-caliphate, I have to believe it’s only a matter of time before these angry throwbacks square off with military hardware.
> 
> 
> Cairo wary of Hamas reviving ties with Tehran | Amr Emam | AW
> 
> CAIRO - Egyptian political analysts warned of an increase of Iranian influence in the Gaza Strip, referring to potential instability in the region and deterioration of relations between Hamas and Egypt.
> 
> “The return of Iranian influence to the Gaza Strip will adversely affect the region,” political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan said. “Apart from potentially ending the calm between Hamas and Israel, this influence will harm Egypt’s relations with Hamas.”
> 
> Egypt watched closely as a delegation from Hamas visited Tehran on July 20, the first such trip since December 2017. The delegation was led by Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh al-Arouri.


Why all the fuss? Hamas has never been a threat to Egypt.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the majority Sunni Arabs seeing the dreaded Shia Crescent expanding into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and now the Gaza mini-caliphate, I have to believe it’s only a matter of time before these angry throwbacks square off with military hardware.
> 
> 
> Cairo wary of Hamas reviving ties with Tehran | Amr Emam | AW
> 
> CAIRO - Egyptian political analysts warned of an increase of Iranian influence in the Gaza Strip, referring to potential instability in the region and deterioration of relations between Hamas and Egypt.
> 
> “The return of Iranian influence to the Gaza Strip will adversely affect the region,” political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan said. “Apart from potentially ending the calm between Hamas and Israel, this influence will harm Egypt’s relations with Hamas.”
> 
> Egypt watched closely as a delegation from Hamas visited Tehran on July 20, the first such trip since December 2017. The delegation was led by Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh al-Arouri.
> 
> 
> 
> Why all the fuss? Hamas has never been a threat to Egypt.
Click to expand...


Except when Hamas was killing Egyptians. The Egyptians found that to be a threat.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the majority Sunni Arabs seeing the dreaded Shia Crescent expanding into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and now the Gaza mini-caliphate, I have to believe it’s only a matter of time before these angry throwbacks square off with military hardware.
> 
> 
> Cairo wary of Hamas reviving ties with Tehran | Amr Emam | AW
> 
> CAIRO - Egyptian political analysts warned of an increase of Iranian influence in the Gaza Strip, referring to potential instability in the region and deterioration of relations between Hamas and Egypt.
> 
> “The return of Iranian influence to the Gaza Strip will adversely affect the region,” political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan said. “Apart from potentially ending the calm between Hamas and Israel, this influence will harm Egypt’s relations with Hamas.”
> 
> Egypt watched closely as a delegation from Hamas visited Tehran on July 20, the first such trip since December 2017. The delegation was led by Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh al-Arouri.
> 
> 
> 
> Why all the fuss? Hamas has never been a threat to Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except when Hamas was killing Egyptians. The Egyptians found that to be a threat.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the majority Sunni Arabs seeing the dreaded Shia Crescent expanding into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and now the Gaza mini-caliphate, I have to believe it’s only a matter of time before these angry throwbacks square off with military hardware.
> 
> 
> Cairo wary of Hamas reviving ties with Tehran | Amr Emam | AW
> 
> CAIRO - Egyptian political analysts warned of an increase of Iranian influence in the Gaza Strip, referring to potential instability in the region and deterioration of relations between Hamas and Egypt.
> 
> “The return of Iranian influence to the Gaza Strip will adversely affect the region,” political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan said. “Apart from potentially ending the calm between Hamas and Israel, this influence will harm Egypt’s relations with Hamas.”
> 
> Egypt watched closely as a delegation from Hamas visited Tehran on July 20, the first such trip since December 2017. The delegation was led by Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh al-Arouri.
> 
> 
> 
> Why all the fuss? Hamas has never been a threat to Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except when Hamas was killing Egyptians. The Egyptians found that to be a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


You want a link to the Hamas splodeydope who a’splodid an Egyptian border guard in 2017? Do you need a link for that?

Why do you think the Egyptians feel a need to secure their border from Pal’istanians?


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” have a long history of Nazi ties going back to the Mufti al-Husseini. They shared many ideological goals and shared the same failures. 



*Hamas Returns to Its Nazi Roots by Displaying Swastika Flag*
By Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz August 4, 2019 , 4:59 pm

Hamas Returns to Its Nazi Roots by Displaying Swastika Flag






Hamas displays Nazi flag on Gaza border (credit: Twitter, @SachaDratwa)


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie,


Hollie said:


> The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” have a long history of Nazi ties going back to the Mufti al-Husseini. They shared many ideological goals and shared the same failures.



*(COMMENT)*

Is it really a "swastika" for the nationalist socialist party of WWII?
Or, is it the sanskrit symbol which means “good fortune?”

I always wonder about these thngs.

MOST RESPECTFULLY,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” have a long history of Nazi ties going back to the Mufti al-Husseini. They shared many ideological goals and shared the same failures.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Returns to Its Nazi Roots by Displaying Swastika Flag*
> By Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz August 4, 2019 , 4:59 pm
> 
> Hamas Returns to Its Nazi Roots by Displaying Swastika Flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas displays Nazi flag on Gaza border (credit: Twitter, @SachaDratwa)


I have seen a few of those.

All of them from Israeli propaganda sites.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” have a long history of Nazi ties going back to the Mufti al-Husseini. They shared many ideological goals and shared the same failures.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Returns to Its Nazi Roots by Displaying Swastika Flag*
> By Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz August 4, 2019 , 4:59 pm
> 
> Hamas Returns to Its Nazi Roots by Displaying Swastika Flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas displays Nazi flag on Gaza border (credit: Twitter, @SachaDratwa)
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen a few of those.
> 
> All of them from Israeli propaganda sites.
Click to expand...


Your usual conspiracy theories won’t help you.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is a telling detail in Hamas' Al Qassam Brigades website where it brags about the 2014 Gaza war.

" The Brigades of the Martyr Izz el-Deen al-Qassam, the military wing of the Hamas movement, , is celebrating the victory against the Zionist enemy during the [2014 Gaza war], and the enemy soldiers are still talking about the courage of fighters in the fierce battles on the threshold of Gaza, and of the fear chasing usurpers because of the rockets."

 I doubt that any Israeli soldiers are talking about what fantastic fighters Hamas had.

But Hamas needs to believe that this is true.

When you live in an honor/shame society, the worst thing that can happen is to be publicly shamed. But the second-worst thing is to be irrelevant.

(full article online)

Hamas wants Israel to respect it ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Invisible Palestinian


----------



## Sixties Fan

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has issued a special report on "Children in Violent Conflict'" which strongly criticizes the use of children by terrorist organizations.

Guterres notes in the document that one of the UN's biggest challenges in this regard is preventing the recruitment of minors for terrorist organizations. "Children who work for terrorist organizations are victims," Guterres said. "They are exposed to high-level violence and exploitation that influences them physically and mentally."

The report detailed the various terrorist organizations which recruit children, including Hamas and Hezbollah. The report confirmed that children in Gaza and Judea and Samaria have been recruited by Islamic Jihad, Hamas and other terrorist groups.

(full article online)

United Nations: Hamas recruits children for terror activity


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Now, let us find a solution to this: ]

Iran agrees to increase Hamas funding to $30 million per month — report


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [Now, let us find a solution to this: ]
> 
> Iran agrees to increase Hamas funding to $30 million per month — report



So basically, Hamas is a very expensive Sunni prostitute for the Shia mullahs.


----------



## Hollie

I thought it was interesting that with Hamas begging like an underpaid prostitute to her pimp in Tehran, the ongoing civil war of Shia financed Hamas vs, West Bank Sunni Moslems extends the blood feud that has divided these retrograde throwbacks for 1,400 years. 



Palestinian security forces routinely torture critics, rights group says

Palestinian Authority and Hamas target each other’s supporters, says Human Rights Watch




 A member of the Hamas security forces patrols in a street in Gaza City. Photograph: Wesam Saleh/AP
The Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank and its political rival Hamas in Gaza regularly detain and torture critics and dissenters, Human Rights Watch (HRW) has said in a report.

Both have carried out “scores of arbitrary arrests for peaceful criticism of the authorities, particularly on social media, among independent journalists, on university campuses, and at demonstrations,” the New York-based advocacy group said.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

When Tlaib and Omar recently announced that they wanted to visit Israel and the PA, it seemed as if their purpose was just to do some old-fashioned Israel-bashing. But now their trip will take on a much more urgent mission: to see all of the Auschwitzes there, and then share their eyewitness testimony with the outside world.

The Auschwitz allegation was leveled by Palestinian official Jibril Rajoub in a July 8 interview with the Kuwaiti television station Sawt Al-Arab. He said that as a result of Israel’s “barbaric and racist” policies, “Auschwitz is here in every city in Palestine.” (Thanks to Palestinian Media Watch for the translation.)

Lest you think Rajoub is some just some run-of-the-mill lunatic, note that he holds a number of senior positions within both the PA and the PLO. To begin with, he is secretary-general of the Central Committee of Fatah, which is the PA’s ruling party (chaired by PA head Mahmoud Abbas). 

But that’s not all: Rajoub is also the head of the PLO Supreme Council for Sport and Youth Affairs, chairman of the Palestinian Football Association, chairman of the Palestine Olympic Committee, and chairman of the Palestinian Scout Association, which are all official PA government agencies.

Rajoub’s revelation that there is “an Auschwitz in every city in Palestine” may puzzle some people, because every major Palestinian Arab city (and most minor ones, too) are under the exclusive rule of the PA, not Israel. Everyone knows that Israel pulled all of its troops out of those cities more than twenty years ago, following the signing of the Oslo Accords.

Is Rajoub claiming that the Israelis have been sneaking into Palestinian cities late at night to set up gas chambers, torture rooms, and facilities for medical experiments on humans?

(full article online)

Omar and Tlaib must be sure to investigate 'Auschwitz in Palestine'


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ We are Muslims.  And the whole world is ours 
PS: They can try but.....reality bites ]

The Palestinian Authority will treat all of Judea and Samaria as being under its administrative and security control, P.A. Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh said on Sunday.

Speaking at a meeting in his Ramallah office with owners of homes demolished by Israel last month in Wadi Hummus, Shtayyeh said that “Israel no longer respects any of the signed agreements and deals, [treating] all areas [in Judea and Samaria] as if they were Area C. Accordingly, we will deal with all areas as if they are Area A.”

(full article online)

Palestinians Declare ‘Control’ Over Israeli Territory


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Israel Security Agency Thwarts Jerusalem Attack, Confiscates 6.6-lb Bomb


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Fearing PR Blow, Hamas Asks Gaza Border Rioters Not to Fly Swastika Flag

 Those " Peaceful Palestinians"


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Israel Security Agency Thwarts Jerusalem Attack, Confiscates 6.6-lb Bomb



I was just reading about this. Evidently, the wannabe splodeydopes were acting with the full knowledge of Hamas and presumably, the Shia Iranians now being the Hamas handlers.


Israeli Security Forces Bust West Bank Hamas Cell Planning Major Jerusalem Terror Attack

A breakthrough in the investigation was reportedly the arrest of Tamer Rajah Rajbi, 22, in Hebron, a Hamas recruit who set up a bomb-making facility in his home.

Rajbi was apparently part of Hamas’ student wing, al-Kotla al-Islamiya, which the Shin Bet described as “the future generation of Hamas activists.”

When he was arrested, Rajbi surrendered a three-kilogram bomb covered with dozens of metal shards, intended to cause maximum damage to victims when detonated.




With Iran now apparently directing some or all of the Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicate, I suspect it is just a matter of time before Israel is attacked with bombs intended to “cause maximum damage”. 

We will have to wait and see if Israel decides to deliver _maximum deterrence _when Its citizens are cut down in large numbers.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, snap. There was another silly islamic terrorist fashion show in Gaza'istan.

The theme was: islamic terrorists-children in ski masks.




Hamas holds major snap military drill in Gaza

Hamas holds major snap military drill in Gaza

Spokesman for Strip's interior ministry says exercise meant to simulate how to deal with a 'sudden security threat,' check preparedness of terror group's forces.




Stolen valor on a large scale by a bunch of posers.


----------



## Hollie

The linked article is a rather thorough analysis of the bloated, fraudulent and utterly welfare black hole that is UNRWA.

The article also covers some familiar ground in connection with the unique and similarly fraudulent definition of "refugee" to describe the islamic terrorist entitlement that describes UNRWA. 
*



UNRWA Donors Put Off by Sex, Lies, Nepotism (but not Terrorism)*

UNRWA Donors Put Off by Sex, Lies, Nepotism (but not Terrorism)

Last August the Trump Administration closed the US taxypayers’ checkbook to a 70-year old bloated and chronically mismanaged international aid program: The United Nations Refugee Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). A handful of nations are now following President Trump’s lead.

But the reason those nations are rethinking the $billions in international aid which has enabled the Arab Palestinian leadership to focus on – including the diversion of that international aid towards efforts to – eliminating Israel, rather than on infrastructure, education and health care, is a sizzling report of illicit sex, nepotism, retaliation and discrimination.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Did Twitter vet the account when it joined? And when you consider that Hamas is deemed a terrorist organization in the United States, and Twitter is an American company, the mind boggles further. Why is it even legal to be on the platform?

Then there’s the question of monitoring. Lets’s say this Hamas account is deactivated. Is that better or worse for the world overall?

(full article online)

Hamas Just Violated Twitter’s Rules. Now What?


----------



## Sixties Fan

So long as they are led by fools who never miss a meal, whose electricity never goes out and whose bank accounts are in the black, Palestinians will remain stateless.

(full article online)

Encouraging Palestinians to swim uphill


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian diplomats are engaged in a full court press to convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate - a mandate that ensures a parallel infrastructure for education, healthcare and housing in areas under Palestinian control.

They are also trying to convince Latin American countries to vote to extend UNRWA's mandate.

The agency's mandate has been rubber stamped to be extended every three years for decades, but in light of the recent corruption scandal at UNRWA's highest levels and the US opposition to the group, this year the extension will be a little more visible. The chances that it will not be extended are still very small.

But under the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas and is foreign ministry, the PLO's diplomats worldwide and at the UN are initiating contacts with every country they can find to ensure that the vote remains overwhelmingly towards continuing the agency's operations.

UNRWA's model of providing free education, healthcare and housing to an ever-increasing number of descendants of refugees for ever is not sustainable. No one even pretends it is. But instead of having the agency curtail operations in areas where the local government can and should take over the role as any normal nation would, the "pro-UNRWA" crowd is not willing to even consider a change in its responsibilities to keep it financially viable.

(full article online)

PLO strenuously trying to avoid independence by pushing to extend @UNRWA mandate ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/is...attack-receives-israeli-residency/2019/08/07/


----------



## Hollie

I was surprised that the UAE and the UK newspapers had the courage to call out Qatar for its funding of the Pal’istanian Islamic terrorists. 



UAE and UK papers urge Qatar to stop funding terrorism

Two stinging editorials this week in the United Arab Emirates’ _The National_ and _The Times_ of Britain demanded that the Gulf monarchy in Qatar pull the plug on its international financing of Islamic terrorism.

The UAE titled its Tuesday editorial “Stop Qatar’s funding of global terrorism,” noting that, “from Syria to France and now the UK, Qatar has repeatedly funded terror groups that have wreaked havoc across the Middle East and beyond.”

What prompted the editorials against Qatar was an August investigation by _The Times_ into the Qatar-owned bank Al Rayan’s business with terrorist entities.

According to the London-based paper, “Al Rayan counts among its customers a charity banned in the US as a terrorist entity, groups that promote hardline preachers and a mosque whose long-term trustee is a Hamas leader.”

The paper’s eye-popping article added that the banks former “executive until April, Sultan Choudhury, was also an unpaid director, for seven years until 2016, of the British arm of a global religious institute whose speakers and instructors have included advocates of child marriage, female circumcision and the death penalty for adultery and apostasy.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  "Sixties Fan,  et al,

I think there is more to the strategy than just to "convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate."




Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian diplomats are engaged in a full court press to convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate - a mandate that ensures a parallel infrastructure for education, healthcare and housing in areas under Palestinian control.
> 
> They are also trying to convince Latin American countries to vote to extend UNRWA's mandate.
> 
> The agency's mandate has been rubber stamped to be extended every three years for decades, but in light of the recent corruption scandal at UNRWA's highest levels and the US opposition to the group, this year the extension will be a little more visible. The chances that it will not be extended are still very small.
> 
> But under the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas and is a foreign ministry, the PLO's diplomats worldwide and at the UN are initiating contacts with every country they can find to ensure that the vote remains overwhelmingly towards continuing the agency's operations.
> 
> UNRWA's model of providing free education, healthcare and housing to an ever-increasing number of descendants of refugees for ever is not sustainable. No one even pretends it is. But instead of having the agency curtail operations in areas where the local government can and should take over the role as any normal nation would, the "pro-UNRWA" crowd is not willing to even consider a change in its responsibilities to keep it financially viable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO strenuously trying to avoid independence by pushing to extend @UNRWA mandate ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

It may be the case that principle generation of Arab Palestinians, none of which are technically refugees, cannot be separated by cutting the donor umbilical in one swift swoop. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  "Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I think there is more to the strategy than just to "convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian diplomats are engaged in a full court press to convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate - a mandate that ensures a parallel infrastructure for education, healthcare and housing in areas under Palestinian control.
> 
> They are also trying to convince Latin American countries to vote to extend UNRWA's mandate.
> 
> The agency's mandate has been rubber stamped to be extended every three years for decades, but in light of the recent corruption scandal at UNRWA's highest levels and the US opposition to the group, this year the extension will be a little more visible. The chances that it will not be extended are still very small.
> 
> But under the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas and is a foreign ministry, the PLO's diplomats worldwide and at the UN are initiating contacts with every country they can find to ensure that the vote remains overwhelmingly towards continuing the agency's operations.
> 
> UNRWA's model of providing free education, healthcare and housing to an ever-increasing number of descendants of refugees for ever is not sustainable. No one even pretends it is. But instead of having the agency curtail operations in areas where the local government can and should take over the role as any normal nation would, the "pro-UNRWA" crowd is not willing to even consider a change in its responsibilities to keep it financially viable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO strenuously trying to avoid independence by pushing to extend @UNRWA mandate ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It may be the case that principle generation of Arab Palestinians, none of which are technically refugees, cannot be separated by cutting the donor umbilical in one swift swoop.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The problem is that Palestinians have no "papers" or passports. They can't just hop a plane to someplace. It is an arduous task just to go anywhere.

One Palestinian friend of mine managed to get to the US on some kind of a temporary program they had. He got US citizenship, and passport. He owns a business, home, and car. His wife and two daughters live in Jordan. They are not even allowed to visit here. He has to go to Jordan on a tourist visa to see his wife and daughters. Why can't they just live together as a family? I am sure there is some stupid fucking political excuse for that.

The fact is that the Palestinians get jerked around on the world stage like nobody else. Then along comes asshole Trump to make things worse.


----------



## ESay

P F Tinmore said:


> Why can't they just live together as a family? I am sure there is some stupid fucking political excuse for that.


Maybe this question is better to be given to American authorities? Why an American citizen can't take his family to the US.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  "Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> I think there is more to the strategy than just to "convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian diplomats are engaged in a full court press to convince European and Arab countries to continue UNRWA's mandate - a mandate that ensures a parallel infrastructure for education, healthcare and housing in areas under Palestinian control.
> 
> They are also trying to convince Latin American countries to vote to extend UNRWA's mandate.
> 
> The agency's mandate has been rubber stamped to be extended every three years for decades, but in light of the recent corruption scandal at UNRWA's highest levels and the US opposition to the group, this year the extension will be a little more visible. The chances that it will not be extended are still very small.
> 
> But under the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas and is a foreign ministry, the PLO's diplomats worldwide and at the UN are initiating contacts with every country they can find to ensure that the vote remains overwhelmingly towards continuing the agency's operations.
> 
> UNRWA's model of providing free education, healthcare and housing to an ever-increasing number of descendants of refugees for ever is not sustainable. No one even pretends it is. But instead of having the agency curtail operations in areas where the local government can and should take over the role as any normal nation would, the "pro-UNRWA" crowd is not willing to even consider a change in its responsibilities to keep it financially viable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO strenuously trying to avoid independence by pushing to extend @UNRWA mandate ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It may be the case that principle generation of Arab Palestinians, none of which are technically refugees, cannot be separated by cutting the donor umbilical in one swift swoop.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem is that Palestinians have no "papers" or passports. They can't just hop a plane to someplace. It is an arduous task just to go anywhere.
> 
> One Palestinian friend of mine managed to get to the US on some kind of a temporary program they had. He got US citizenship, and passport. He owns a business, home, and car. His wife and two daughters live in Jordan. They are not even allowed to visit here. He has to go to Jordan on a tourist visa to see his wife and daughters. Why can't they just live together as a family? I am sure there is some stupid fucking political excuse for that.
> 
> The fact is that the Palestinians get jerked around on the world stage like nobody else. Then along comes asshole Trump to make things worse.
Click to expand...



What does this have to do with Palestinians? This is a US citizen and presumably (?) Jordanian citizens?


----------



## Shusha

Also don’t BS us that Arab Palestinians have no travel docs or passports. They do.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  "P F Tinmore,  et al

This is important.  I've seen many in the discussion group struggle over this, so instead of me using my interpretation, I'll just cut'n'paste it.




			
				Page 199 • International Law • 6th Edition said:
			
		

> The need for a defined territory focuses upon the requirement for a particular territorial base upon which to operate. However, there is no
> necessity in international law for defined and settled boundaries.  A state may be recognised as a legal person even though it is involved in a dispute with its neighbours as to the precise demarcation of its frontiers, so long as there is a consistent band of territory which is undeniably controlled by the government of the alleged state. For this reason at least, therefore, the *‘State of Palestine’ declared in November 1988 at a conference in Algiers cannot be regarded as a valid state*. The Palestinian organisations did not control any part of the territory they claim.
> 
> *FOOTNOTE:_____________*
> See Keesing’s Record of World Events, p. 36438 (1989). See also General Assembly resolution
> 43/77; R. Lapidoth and K. Calvo-Goller, ‘Les E´ le´ments Constitutifs de l’E´ tat et la
> D´eclaration du Conseil National Palestinien du 15 Novembre 1988’, AFDI, 1992, p. 777;
> J. Crawford, ‘The Creation of the State of Palestine: Too Much Too Soon?’, 1 EJIL, 1990,
> p. 307, and Crawford, ‘Israel (1948–1949) and Palestine (1998–1999): Two Studies in
> the Creation of States’ in The Reality of International Law (eds. G. Goodwin-Gill and S.
> Talmon),Oxford, 1999, p. 95. See below, p. 246, with regard to the evolution of Palestinian
> autonomy in the light of the Israel–Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) Declaration
> on Principles.
> ___________________
> *SOURCE*:  Cambridge University Press
> The Edinburgh Building, Cambridge CB2 8RU, UK





P F Tinmore said:


> The problem is that Palestinians have no "papers" or passports. They can't just hop a plane to someplace. It is an arduous task just to go anywhere.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, and that is an inherent function of government.  IF the organization claims to be a "state," but cannot function as a "State," THEN is not a "state."



P F Tinmore said:


> One Palestinian friend of mine managed to get to the US on some kind of a temporary program they had. He got US citizenship and passport. He owns a business, home, and car. His wife and two daughters live in Jordan. They are not even allowed to visit here. He has to go to Jordan on a tourist visa to see his wife and daughters. Why can't they just live together as a family? I am sure there is some stupid fucking political excuse for that.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, this is a function of the US Government across several different federal departments.  It is governed by US Domestic Law.  It has nothing to do with the authority of the foreign entities.



P F Tinmore said:


> The fact is that the Palestinians get jerked around on the world stage like nobody else. Then along comes asshole Trump to make things worse.


*(COMMENT)*

OH!  You know that is not true.  Every month the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Service gets raked over the coals over this very issue.  The US domestic law entanglement on this subject touches.  I retired as a Federal Agent nearly 30 years ago, so I may not be up to speed on this.  But your friend seems to be (not sure) describing a temporary work visa (*H*, L, or E *visa*) series Type Visa.  And that is a Consular Function, which I'm not familiar with. 

Remember, non-citizens do not have a "right" to enter the US; without permission (the visa).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al

Odd you should mention that.



Shusha said:


> Also don’t BS us that Arab Palestinians have no travel docs or passports. They do.


*(COMMENT)*

President Abbas travels on a Jordanian Passport.

I have seen a Passport issue under the Palestinian Authority.  But oddly enough, the President of the PA travels either on his Jordanian Passport or his Israeli Travel Documents.  I hear it is a mess.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Also don’t BS us that Arab Palestinians have no travel docs or passports. They do.


A few do, most do not. Most who travel are constantly begging for visas.

Janna Jihad is an unusual case. She was born in Florida when her parents were visiting here. She has US citizenship and passport even though she has lived almost her entire life in the West Bank. Her parents have no passports.

Ahed Tamimi, Janna's cousin, spent months trying to get a student visa to study in Britain. She did finally get it.

Hannan Ashrawi, and Omar Barghouti both have children who are US citizens. Both have recently been denied visas to visit the US. Omar missed his daughters wedding.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  "P F Tinmore,  et al
> 
> This is important.  I've seen many in the discussion group struggle over this, so instead of me using my interpretation, I'll just cut'n'paste it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Page 199 • International Law • 6th Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The need for a defined territory focuses upon the requirement for a particular territorial base upon which to operate. However, there is no
> necessity in international law for defined and settled boundaries.  A state may be recognised as a legal person even though it is involved in a dispute with its neighbours as to the precise demarcation of its frontiers, so long as there is a consistent band of territory which is undeniably controlled by the government of the alleged state. For this reason at least, therefore, the *‘State of Palestine’ declared in November 1988 at a conference in Algiers cannot be regarded as a valid state*. The Palestinian organisations did not control any part of the territory they claim.
> 
> *FOOTNOTE:_____________*
> See Keesing’s Record of World Events, p. 36438 (1989). See also General Assembly resolution
> 43/77; R. Lapidoth and K. Calvo-Goller, ‘Les E´ le´ments Constitutifs de l’E´ tat et la
> D´eclaration du Conseil National Palestinien du 15 Novembre 1988’, AFDI, 1992, p. 777;
> J. Crawford, ‘The Creation of the State of Palestine: Too Much Too Soon?’, 1 EJIL, 1990,
> p. 307, and Crawford, ‘Israel (1948–1949) and Palestine (1998–1999): Two Studies in
> the Creation of States’ in The Reality of International Law (eds. G. Goodwin-Gill and S.
> Talmon),Oxford, 1999, p. 95. See below, p. 246, with regard to the evolution of Palestinian
> autonomy in the light of the Israel–Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) Declaration
> on Principles.
> ___________________
> *SOURCE*:  Cambridge University Press
> The Edinburgh Building, Cambridge CB2 8RU, UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that Palestinians have no "papers" or passports. They can't just hop a plane to someplace. It is an arduous task just to go anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, and that is an inherent function of government.  IF the organization claims to be a "state," but cannot function as a "State," THEN is not a "state."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One Palestinian friend of mine managed to get to the US on some kind of a temporary program they had. He got US citizenship and passport. He owns a business, home, and car. His wife and two daughters live in Jordan. They are not even allowed to visit here. He has to go to Jordan on a tourist visa to see his wife and daughters. Why can't they just live together as a family? I am sure there is some stupid fucking political excuse for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a function of the US Government across several different federal departments.  It is governed by US Domestic Law.  It has nothing to do with the authority of the foreign entities.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is that the Palestinians get jerked around on the world stage like nobody else. Then along comes asshole Trump to make things worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH!  You know that is not true.  Every month the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Service gets raked over the coals over this very issue.  The US domestic law entanglement on this subject touches.  I retired as a Federal Agent nearly 30 years ago, so I may not be up to speed on this.  But your friend seems to be (not sure) describing a temporary work visa (*H*, L, or E *visa*) series Type Visa.  And that is a Consular Function, which I'm not familiar with.
> 
> Remember, non-citizens do not have a "right" to enter the US; without permission (the visa).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I know that there is a lot of gobbledygook involved, but why can't they get it done. Is there nobody in the government with a brain? Why can't they get this family together?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian factions this morning all responded in strikingly similar ways to the news that Jewish student Dvir Sorek was stabbed multiple times o death.

Islamic Jihad said, "The heroic operation is a natural reaction to the terrorism of the occupation and its crimes against our people, our land and our sanctities."

The Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine said, "The heroic operation this morning in the Gush Etzion settlement...is a legitimate right of the Palestinian people to respond to the ongoing crimes of the Israeli occupation."

Tamer Awadallah, a member of the Central Committee of the DFLP, praised the operation as "a natural response in reaction to the ongoing Israeli crimes."
The Popular Resistance Movement in Palestine "blessed the heroic operation" and said "the operation was a natural response to Israeli crimes in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip."

 Everyone seems to agree that, for Palestinians, stabbing a random person is completely "natural" and "heroic."


Palestinian factions praise cold blooded murder, calling it "natural" for them ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The commentary and observations in the linked article are largely a reiteration of the policy of the Arab-Moslem retrogrades using children as a disposable war commodity.  




Using youngsters as a tool for violence near the security fence in the Gaza Strip - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center


*Using youngsters as a tool for violence near the security fence in the Gaza Strip*
Published: 01/08/2019








The activities of the youngsters near the security fence last Friday was documented by a number of journalists. Watching the videos (see below) provides a number of insights:


Most of the Palestinians who confront the IDF are obviously adolescents, and some of them are children. Putting youngsters on the front lines is intended to make it difficult for the IDF to respond. Hamas uses it as a propaganda tool to blacken Israel’s image in world public opinion. Moreover, sometimes the adolescents may be sent to the front lines to conceal terrorist activities carried out by military operatives, endangering the youngsters’ lives.


The violence against the IDF forces near the security fence is not “popular and spontaneous” but rather organized and is either deliberately initiated or a blind eye is turned to it. In most instances Hamas operatives are integrated into the activities in the front line, and the number of them wounded at the return marches is extremely high.[1] In one video an operative, apparently from Hamas’ restraint force (wearing an orange vest) is seen watching the violent events, but he does not try to prevent the youngsters’ activity.


----------



## Mindful

Does Israel treat Palestinians the way the Nazis treated the Jews?















This is perhaps the most odious claim made by Israel’s detractors. The Nextermination of every Jew in Europe. Israel is seeking peace with its Palestinian neighbors.

More than one million Arabs live as free and equal citizens in Israel. Of the Palestinians in the territories, 98 percent live under the civil administration of the Palestinian Authority. Israeli policies are designed to protect Israeli citizens—Jews and non-Jews—from the incessant campaign of terror. There has never been a plan to persecute, exterminate, or expel the Palestinian people.


----------



## Hollie

It's islamic terrorist high-fives all around as the Arab-Moslem Death Cult celebrates a killing. The celebration them turns to some tribal panic as they seek to destroy evidence and protect the guilty.




*PALESTINIAN TERRORIST FACTIONS APPLAUD WEST BANK TERROR ATTACK*
3 minute read.
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH






PALESTINIAN HAMAS SUPPORTERS in Gaza celebrate the Ariel terrorist attack, earlier this week (photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS)
A PA official in Ramallah pointed out that the murder of Sorek came on the eve of the Muslim feast of Eid al-Adha. He said he did not rule out the possibility that a Hamas cell was behind the attack.

Several Palestinian factions on Thursday welcomed the murder of off-duty soldier Dvir Sorek in the Gush Etzion area, while the Palestinian Authority expressed fear that Israel would use the terror attack to intensify its security measures against Palestinians in the West Bank.

The factions and many Palestinian activists urged Palestinians living in villages in the Gush Etzion area to immediately delete footage or remove private security cameras so as to prevent the IDF from identifying the terrorists.

Palestinian terrorist factions applaud West Bank terror attack


----------



## Hollie

It's as though islamism and "Pal'istanian" have become excuses for not treating a mental illness. 





Can one man's child murderer ever be another man's hero?
by Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus 
Aug. 9, 2019 

Can one man's child murderer ever be another man's hero? - PMW Bulletins

*Can one man's child murderer ever be another man's hero?*

*The PA has paid millions of shekels to the 8 "heroic" terrorists of the Sbarro bombing*

*The terrorist who chose to target the pizza shop specifically because it was crowded, doesn't understand why the world thinks murdering children makes her a terrorist
*
*The PA payments to the 8 terrorists have totaled 3,209,740 shekels ($910,823)*

*Every month the PA pays an additional 25,800 shekels ($7,321) to the terrorists*
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
18 years ago today Ahlam Tamimi smuggled a bomb in a guitar case into Jerusalem and led a suicide bomber to the Sbarro pizza shop, who then murdered 15 Israelis, 8 of them children. When Tamimi thinks about the children she murdered she has "no regrets," in fact it makes her happy. These are some of her thoughts about murdering children:


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And this action continues to say it all about the war waged on Jews by Muslims ]

Fireworks were fired in Silwad, an Arab village near Ofra, during funeral of Dvir Sorek who was murdered in terror attack in Gush Etzion.

Watch: Fireworks in Arab village during funeral


----------



## Sixties Fan

Attorney General Avichai Mandeblit on Thursday informed former Knesset lawmaker Hanin Zoabi of the Arab Israeli Balad party that he intends to indict her on a series of fraud charges, pending a hearing.

Zoabi is suspected of aggravated forgery, falsifying corporate documents, money-laundering, and aggravated fraud. Her pre-indictment hearing date was not immediately announced.

According to Hebrew reports, another 35 suspects will be charged in the far-reaching investigation of alleged financial irregularities in the Balad party, a hard-line Palestinian nationalist faction that makes up part of the Joint List party.

(full article online)

Firebrand former MK Zoabi set to be charged with fraud, forgery


----------



## Hollie

Hamas has to do as they’re told by their Iranian masters if they want Iranian welfare money.


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is not only Tamimi who sees herself and her terror partners in the Sbarro bombing as heroic freedom fighters. The PA rewards every one of the child murderers involved in the bombing. Palestinian Media Watch has calculated that since the bombing on August 9, 2001, the PA has paid the 8 terrorists responsible for the attack and the families of the dead terrorists (so called "Martyrs") no less than 3,209,740 shekels ($910,823). 

The payments include monthly salaries paid to the terrorists in prison, payments to the families of the dead terrorists and the payments to the terrorists who, like Tamimi, were released in the Shalit exchange. 

Through August 2019, the PA has cumulatively paid: 

the terrorists in prison 2,278,800 shekels ($646,651). 
the families of the dead terrorists 565,600 shekels ($160,500). 
the terrorists released in the Shalit deal 365,340 shekels ($103,672). 
The payments to the released prisoners include special "release grants" that PA Chairman ordered be given to the released terrorists as a "Presidential gift as token of honor to prisoners."
The current payments rewarding the Sbarro terrorists and their families is 25,800 shekels ($7,321) /month. In spite of the self-inflicted PA financial crisis, since the beginning of 2019 alone, the PA has paid 206,400 shekels ($58,569).

(full article online)

Can one man's child murderer ever be another man's hero? - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

International Spokesman for Hebron Yishai Fleisher tweeted: “MUST SEE VID of the time when anti-Israel activist @Issaamrokept yapping about “APARTHEID” in HEBRON but was surrounded by @Chabad (Jewish) students dancing in the JOY.”

(full article online)

Anti-Israel activist tried to spread lies in Hebron - then THIS happened!


----------



## Hollie

Poor, Mohammed. A 35 year old who had nothing better to do than join the gee-had wannabe rioters who threatened to “tear the hearts out” of Jews.  

Who is to blame for your bad choices, Mo’?

Gaza protests: hope fades as weekly border clashes bring more carnage than change

Mohammed Mikdad used to spend his Friday afternoons at the fence that runs along Gaza’s border, taking part in weekly demonstrations against Israel. They were fun, he says, and he didn’t have much else to do.

But after being shot in the leg by an Israeli sniper in May, Mikdad, 35, has spent recent Fridays begging outside the local mosque, unable to continue his work as a doorman and struggling to support six children and service his debts.


“We hoped it might make a little change. Later, I discovered it was worthless,” he says, his leg secured in a metal apparatus that he adjusts every six hours to help mend his shattered bone.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.

It seems the Iranian welfare money is buying the Arabs-Moslems some new toys such as RPG’s.

I don’t think the Sunni Arab-Moslems quite understand that the Shia Iranian welfare money comes with the expectation that the Sunni dhimmi will be expected to die by the hundreds, if not thousands attacking Israel in the service of hastening the return of the Shia hidden Imam. . 





IDF foils infiltration by Gazans armed with rifles, RPGs, grenades

*Four Palestinians killed by troops in attempt to scale barrier into Israel; army says grenade hurled at soldiers during incident; military aircraft strike Hamas post*
Today, 7:56 am 

The IDF arrests a Hamas operative suspected of running a cash transfer network between the Gaza Strip and Ramallah on July 16, 2019. (Israel Defense Forces)






This photo shows RPGs carried by four Palestinians who attempted to infiltrate into Israel through the border fence with Gaza, August 10, 2019. (Israel Defense Forces)


----------



## Hollie

In the service of the Shia hidden Imam, dead Sunni holy warriors is the price to pay for Shia welfare money. 

Did the Sunni schlubs believe that like the UNRWA welfare endowment, the Shia welfare comes without conditions?



IDF reportedly strikes Hamas outpost in central Gaza

Palestinian terrorists had attacked Israeli soldiers with grenades while trying to breach the border fence and had likely been killed in the attempt, Channel 13 reported. Israeli aircraft struck multiple Hamas sites in response, the report said.


----------



## Hollie

jpost is reporting that Hamas is denying involvement in the recent gee-had attack aimed at Israel. In terms of the weapons cache carried by the now, former gee-had wannabes, the Hamas claim that they acted independently is a bit of a stretch. From the Iranian perspective, attacks aimed at Israel and an Israeli military response resulting in dead Sunni Hamas terrorists is a net positive. That serves the Iranian interests.

While I have to believe that Iran is anxious to press for a shooting war between Sunni Hamas terrorists and Israel, Hamas must also understand that the statements from Israel about a major escalation in response to an attack from Hamas is not a hollow threat.

The toys taken from the formerly breathing Islamic terrorist wannabes are an order of magnitude over what Hamas has had pre-Shia welfare money.

Photo from ynet:







Hamas distances itself from terror attack, wants to keep Israel truce


Hamas has distanced itself from the Saturday’s botched attempt to infiltrate into Israel from the Gaza Strip by arguing that the four terrorists who were killed by the IDF had acted independently.

This was the second time in the past 10 days that Hamas has distanced itself from a terror attack along the Gaza-Israel border. By disassociating itself from the recent terror attacks, Hamas is signaling that it is keen on preserving the ceasefire understandings reached with Israel earlier this year under the auspices of Egypt and the United Nations, Palestinian political analysts explained.


----------



## Hollie

The eternally aggrieved, always whining, (hereinafter called Moslems), are making the usual bellicose threats when their tender sensibilities are offended.




https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...s-to-Temple-Mount-as-thousands-protest-598295

Muslims confronted Jews waiting at the entrance, as Police forces were forced to storm the area and fire at the Muslims to disperse the crowd and prevent further altercation.

Islamic Jihad and Hamas threatened increased violence after 1,729 Jewish worshipers ascended the Temple Mount Sunday, according to police numbers cited by the Internal Security Ministry. Earlier in the day, Israel Police had closed the mount and short but violent protests erupted.


----------



## Hollie

Looking for any reason to start a confrontation. Hamas is hoping to rouse the rabal.


*https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/08/11/hamas-calls-on-palestinians-to-jerusalem-and-defend-al-aqsa-mosque/*

Call comes after hours of clashes on Temple Mount. Muslim worshippers began throwing chairs and other objects at a group of Jewish visitors that was allowed to enter under close police escort. Israel Police says at least four officers wounded.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist beatdown in 2014.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Looking for any reason to start a confrontation. Hamas is hoping to rouse the rabal.
> 
> 
> *https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/08/11/hamas-calls-on-palestinians-to-jerusalem-and-defend-al-aqsa-mosque/*
> 
> Call comes after hours of clashes on Temple Mount. Muslim worshippers began throwing chairs and other objects at a group of Jewish visitors that was allowed to enter under close police escort. Israel Police says at least four officers wounded.





Did you hear that they deliberately closed all the mosques except Al Aqsa, so any Muslim wanting to pray was forced to go there?


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for any reason to start a confrontation. Hamas is hoping to rouse the rabal.
> 
> 
> *https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/08/11/hamas-calls-on-palestinians-to-jerusalem-and-defend-al-aqsa-mosque/*
> 
> Call comes after hours of clashes on Temple Mount. Muslim worshippers began throwing chairs and other objects at a group of Jewish visitors that was allowed to enter under close police escort. Israel Police says at least four officers wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that they deliberately closed all the mosques except Al Aqsa, so any Muslim wanting to pray was forced to go there?
Click to expand...


A cynical tactic by the Arabs-Moslems to do whatever they can to cause rioting, injuries and the desecration of religious sites.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorist beatdown in 2014.


Israel's war crimes for all to see.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist beatdown in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's war crimes for all to see.
Click to expand...


What war crime? Another unsupported claim.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Israeli law enforcement is closing the loop on a collection of Death Cult retrogrades.



Israel nabs the two suspected killers of Dvir Sorek; one has Hamas ties

*Palestinian cousins, from Hebron-area village near where murder took place, taken for questioning; forces make two other arrests of relatives, confiscate vehicle used in attack*


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority's silence over the murder of the Jewish teenager sends one clear message to the Palestinian public: It is fine to kill a Jew.


Abbas's silence, in fact, encouraged many Palestinians to express joy over the terrorist attack.


It was hard to find even one Palestinian who was willing to express his or her revulsion over the terrorist attack. But this makes sense. Why should any Palestinian come out against terrorism when their leaders are either silent or joyously celebrating the murder of a Jewish teenager?


This is the hate that has been embedded in the hearts and minds of Palestinians toward Israel and Jews. When Palestinians run to link the Palestinian slaughter of a Jewish teen to a Muslim feast and the tradition of sacrificing sheep, it is clear that the time has come for Palestinians to take a hard look at themselves – and if they are nonetheless unwilling to do so, perhaps the international community might finally bring a mirror to them.


(full article online)

Palestinians: In Need of a Mirror?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The letter said that "the occupation seeks to provide an arena for the establishment of settler Talmudic rituals, as a first step towards the full occupation of Al-Aqsa fully, and then to demolish it".

This is not a single imam or leader of Hamas. The official position of the Palestinian government is that Israel is attempting to destroy Al Aqsa (and presumably the Dome of the Rock.)

This is the exact same false charge that Palestinian Arabs have been hurling at Jews since the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem first made the accusation in the 1920s. 

It is pure incitement against Jews being pushed by a member of the UN.

(full article online)

Palestinian government tells UN and UNESCO that Israel plans to demolish Al Aqsa ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

But as many videos from Eid al Adha show (this one from Gaza,) the requirement of a single stroke is almost never done, at least in front of the crowds recording the slaughter.

(Warning: this is horrific to watch.)



The slaughterer does not even hold the blade so the sharp end severs the neck. Instead, he is stabbing the poor creature in the neck, repeatedly, to the cheers of the crowd watching it painfully die over the course of minutes - as the next animal watches and is clearly agitated when its turn comes up.

Forget PETA. Shouldn't religious Muslims themselves be upset over this fairly clear violation of Muslim law?

(full article online)

Horrific slaughter of animals during Eid doesn't seem to be Halal (graphic video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Another gee-had attempt denied by the IDF.

Other news sources are reporting that Hamas is denying involvement with these latest gee-had attempts/failures. It may be that the Iranians are pushing Hamas aside and funding the more excitable of the gee-had wannabes.



Hamas gunman shot after firing at troops in fresh Gaza border battle

Israeli forces shot dead a Palestinian gunman who opened fire at them while attempting to sneak into Israel from Gaza early Sunday, the military said, as fresh fighting broke out on the tense border.

This was the third infiltration attempt by armed terrorists from the Gaza Strip into Israel in 10 days.


----------



## Hollie

Because Islamic Terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## Hollie

Indeed.



Swiss suspend funding to UN Palestinian agency over misconduct claims | DW | 30.07.2019

The Swiss government said it was to temporarily stop payments after an ethics report revealed alleged mismanagement and abuse of authority at the highest levels.


----------



## Hollie

Those angry Fatah and Hamas warring caliphate’ists are still facing a common enemy: each other. I guess Abbas isn’t quite ready to convert to Shia Islam as Hamas has done.


*Hamas: PA foiling terror attacks on behalf of Israel*

*http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/267302*

Hamas accuses the PA of cooperating with Israel to thwart some 600 attacks in the past year.


----------



## Hollie

Livin’ the islamo-dream


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Somewhere in the boxes that accumulated over the years in our basement are videotapes of our five children at summer camp. We see our kids in various activities—playing baseball and basketball, jumping into the pool, holding the rabbits in the “nature shack,” and, the mother of all activities, “color war.”

Color war is a good kind of war; it’s bloodless, unless you bang your nose during a hotly contested rebound under a basketball hoop, and perhaps the most fun part of it is watching your child sing his or her heart out in the song competition. In the end, one team won, the other lost, and the war came to an end. You hope your child comes away with the lesson that competition requires teamwork, and that, in turn, builds character.

Videos have now emerged of children at summer camp practicing for war of a different sort. For instance, from Turkey there’s a video that has gone viral of a teacher prompting a group of young girls in a camp setting by shouting the word yahudiye—Turkish for “to the Jew,” which results in the children responding by raising their fists and shouting “death.”

The video is seemingly so disturbing within Turkey that a member of its parliament has demanded an explanation from the government as to how this could have happened.

Perhaps more chilling than the Turkish episode are the video scenes coming out of Gaza’s summer camps. No basketball contests or visits to the nature shack. No, instead we are treated to young boys going through military training, running obstacle courses and crawling under barbed wire with what appears to be live fire overhead. We are also shown images of these “campers” field-stripping rifles while blindfolded. This is done in all armies to simulate nighttime fighting conditions.

(full article online)

Summer camp, a time for fun?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since this was written, Israel's GDP has increased to $41,000 per capita and it has risen from a rank of 41 to 22 in the world. 

Even though I believe that BDS' goals are not economicbut propaganda, the failure of its economic program has been stunning when looked upon from this perspective.

Note also that this document's primary wish for this BDS plan was to force Jews to move out of Israel.

(full article online)

Palestinian Foreign Affairs Ministry published BDS guidelines that criticizes its own government ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Well, this won't go well with Sinwar's bossss in Tehran.

It suggests an interesting dynamic in that Tehran supplying money and weapons to Hamas implies an expectation that Hamas will use those weapons against israel. That expectation has been realized with the termination of breathing suffered by four gee-had wannabes attempting to breach Israeli border protections with rifles, grenades and RPG's just a few days ago. 

Hamas must realize that an Israeli response to a deadly attack on Israeli citizens may well result in a major Israeli response resulting in a lot of dead Arabs-Moslems and significant damage to Gaza.

The Iranians would like nothing better than to stoke a war between their hated enemies; Sunni Arabs and the Jewish people. They can watch CNN as the beating down is delivered to Hamas.


HAMAS DEPLOYS SECURITY FORCES TO STOP TERRORISTS REACHING ISRAEL – REPORT

Hamas deploys security forces to stop terrorists reaching Israel – report

Hamas did not comment on the report, which came after the IDF thwarted three attempts by terrorists to infiltrate the border into Israel.
BY KHALED ABU TOAMEH

 AUGUST 13, 2019 17:26


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - world leaders in "welfare will pay for our bad choices"


----------



## Hollie

A Hamas holy warrior destined to fight and die for the glory of Shia Islamism.


----------



## Hollie

I suspect Yahya Sinwar, the Emir of Sinwar’istan, is playing to his audience of children and burqa clad women with such pompous blustering. 

Outside of his time fleecing UNWRA, Yahya also fancies himself commanding the French forces at Waterloo. 



*Hamas leader vows terror group will defeat IDF if its forces enter Gaza

*
Sinwar praises Palestinian man who opened fire on Israeli troops earlier in month after infiltrating from Gaza, describing attack as a ‘sacrificial and heroic operation’


----------



## Hollie

*https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/i-feel-i-live-septic-tank-gazas-environmental-meltdown*

As each day passes, the humanitarian and environmental situation in Gaza becomes ever more desperate




You poor, dear. Maybe go for a lunch by the beach.







Oh, my. Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

The pinnacle of Moslem manhood, and why familial relations are wrong.


----------



## Hollie

It seems that Tehran is looking to undermine the Abbas mini-caliphate.

What’s a Mahmoud to do when the competing mini-caliphate in Gaza is raking in $30 million per month in Iranian welfare money and those enemies have designs on your empire?


PA official: Iran helping Hamas rebuild West Bank terror network

https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/08...lping-hamas-rebuild-west-bank-terror-network/


Hamas deputy leader Saleh Arouri "gets military aid and economic support from the regime in Tehran, and is rigorously working to rehabilitate Hamas' terrorist cells in the West Bank while exploiting the [PA's] diplomatic standstill [with Israel] and the fact that the leadership in Ramallah has reduced to a minimum its security cooperation with Israel," senior PA official tells Israel Hayom.


----------



## Hollie

The angry, belligerent politico-religious ideology invented by an Arab warlord still survives.
*


The PA initiated clashes  
on the Temple Mount

The PA initiated clashes on the Temple Mount - PMW Bulletins*

By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus
A guide to the Temple Mount published in 1925 by the Supreme Moslem Council of Mandate Palestine declares that its "identity with Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute." This senior Muslim authority repeated this confirmation of Jewish and Christian traditions in 1950 in a new guide, when Jerusalem and the Temple Mount were then under Jordanian rule. Despite these repeated affirmations by the top Muslim authority of the land, the Palestinian Authority is constantly attempting to rewrite even Muslim tradition, by denying the Jewish nature of the Temple Mount.  Accordingly, it refers to visits by Jews to this holy site as "invasions" and calls on Palestinians and the International community to defend the site and prevent its "Judaization." The PA deceptively refers to the entire Temple Mount as the "Al Aqsa Mosque", even though the actual mosque sits on a relatively small area in the south-western corner of the mount.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notice how in 1965 the Arabs still considered the areas between the partition lines and armistice lines as being stolen land; no one considered the 1949 armistice lines to be borders.

The idea that the Jews are like the Crusaders and will eventually be forced out is mainstream Palestinian thought, taught for generations.

And even then the Palestinians used the word "justice" to mean the destruction of Israel. Nothing has changed there.

Eshkol's offer would generate a little interest today, since it is based on what are now called the 1967 lines, but even then the "right of return" was considered sacred and a deal breaker. Nothing has changed there either.

(full article online)

A peace proposal rejected by the PLO in 1965 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

As long as the Palestinian “moderate” is claiming to represent “Canaanites” who will evict the Jews, talk of two states is nothing more than hot air.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas’s time-machine politics dooms peace (again)


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Salam Alaykom,_

_For two years we have been meeting in one room, Palestinians and Israelis. At every meeting we talked about ourselves: our daily lives and the future that we want to build together. We used to meet every two weeks, bringing together young men between the ages of 18 and 25. _

_Every time, it was a great opportunity to talk, and we invited some friends to join us , one of them was Ahmad Manasra, I personally invited him to join the group, he agreed, and after his first meeting, and the good impression he took from the group, he was killed on the way home. _

_Everyone was shocked by what happened, Palestinians and Israelis cried together to lose our new friend. _

_Harsh reality hits us again. A few days ago, our yeshiva friend from Migdal Oz was abducted and killed, When I got the news that morning, I was shocked. I told my Palestinian friends what happened and they didn't believe me. _

_Dvir Sorek, 19, who was stabbed to death in the West Bank….Dvir Sorek was one of the participants in this discussion group. In no way we can imagine that someone we met yesterday will be the victim of tomorrow. _

_We send our condolences to his family and our friends in the yeshiva. _

_And for us as a group, we condemn this kind of vicious violence that target us all for our residence place, religion, identity, citizenship. It is so sad we reached the point where we are talking about the right to not be killed._

_We will stay in this way until we achieve the goal of freedom and the right to life. We are building a bridge between peoples on this land and we will continue to work on it._

_We hope that this incident will be the last grief on both sides. _



_Signed: Palestinian friends from the religious dialogue group


(full article online)

PA Arab youths pen special letter to Dvir Sorek's family_


----------



## Sixties Fan

The story of the Palestinian Arab that everyone MUST know!


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the islamic terrorists in Hamas have put themselves in an untenable position. As usual, they have made a number of poorly thought-out choices and now find that their options go from bad to worse. 

With the Iranian supplied welfare money and weapons comes expectations that those assets will be used for attacks aimed at Israel. Hamas also has relied heavily on Egypt to broker a ceasefire with Israel  that will result in economic opportunities for Gaza in exchange for cessation of gee-had attacks.

I'm guessing Hamas will bow to their masters in Iran and take the welfare money rather than stop the gee-had attacks and allow for an improved economy. Iran is the winner with lots of dead Sunni Arab-Moslems. 



Hamas claims they won't stop individuals from attacking Israel

Hamas officials told Lebanese newspaper Al-Akhbar that recent attacks were unauthorized by them, despite the terrorists use of Hamas-issued weapons.

Hamas officials stated before the Eid al-Adha holiday which began on Sunday that they would not prevent attacks by individual Gazans on Israel, after multiple infiltration attempts occurred in the past week, according to the Lebanese newspaper_ Al-Akhbar._

The terror movement laid responsibility for the recent infiltrations on Israel, citing the harsh living conditions in the Gaza Strip

Hamas sources said that an internal investigation showed that the "last three operations were carried out by members of the military wing of the movement who planned the attacks themselves on the spot and without instructions from the military and political leadership of the movement."


----------



## Hollie

I'm not sure that I see why anyone would, or could, be surprised at this. 


Gaza witnessing most severe crackdown on dissent in last decade, Amnesty warns

*'The crackdown on freedom of expression and the use of torture in Gaza has reached alarming new levels', says the charity*
_Hamas has arbitrarily arrested and tortured hundreds of protesters, rights workers and journalists in Gaza in the most severe crackdown on dissent in a decade, a rights group has warned.

Amnesty International urged the militant group that runs the strip to immediately stop the attacks on those behind “the revolt of the hungry”.
_


----------



## Hollie

Here’s a reall good article by Daniel Greenfield delineating the waste, fraud and mismanagement that defines UNRWA, the Islamic terrorist welfare agency
*



HOW TRUMP STARTED A CIVIL WAR BETWEEN HAMAS AND A UN AGENCY*
*A civil war in UNRWA.*

*How Trump Started a Civil War Between Hamas and a UN Agency*

Even within the United Nations, a sprawling multinational bureaucracy linked by luxury dining, corruption and complicity in terrorism, the UNRWA stands out for waste, corruption and terror.

The UNRWA’s abbreviation leaves out its full title, _United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East_, and its heavy focus on Gaza. The UNRWA classifies 1.4 million or 73% of the people living in Gaza as “refugees” even though it’s an independent territory run by Hamas.

There are really two UNRWA agencies. One is a UN agency run by a small number of international staffers. Another is an arm of Hamas which employs thousands of “Palestinians”. Many if not most of these are members of Hamas. Some, like Suhail al-Hindi, the former head of the UNRWA union, who was also a member of Hamas’ leadership, serve in the upper echelons of the terror group.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror Attack in the Old City of Jerusalem by Two Muslim Kids


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Terror Attack in the Old City of Jerusalem by Two Muslim Kids



Israel absolutely has to address this.  The status quo is no longer possible.


----------



## Hollie

Israel was quick to respond to the latest Islamic terrorist attack.this may be setting the conditions for a more aggressive defense when the Islamic terrorists launch gee-had attacks. 



IDF attacks Hamas infrastructures

The Israel Air Force attacked two Hamas underground terrorist infrastructures in northern and central Gaza on Friday night, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit confirmed.

According to the statement, the air strikes were carried out in retaliation for the rocket fire from Gaza on Friday evening.

“The IDF will continue to act against attempts to harm Israeli civilians and considers the terrorist organization Hamas responsible for everything that is done in and out of the Gaza Strip,” said the statement.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas rocket attack results in failure. Interception by IDF 


https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...et-sirens-activated-in-southern-Israel-598847


----------



## Hollie

A dead Arab-Moslem. This is the result of an Islamic terrorist franchise that knows only retrogression and self-hate.
*
*
2 Palestinians in knife attack on Israel police, one shot dead: officials


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed (and don’t forget besieged), Arabs-Moslems


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those poor, oppressed (and don’t forget besieged), Arabs-Moslems


There is something funny about that hotel.

No tourists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed (and don’t forget besieged), Arabs-Moslems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is something funny about that hotel.
> 
> No tourists.
Click to expand...


There is something funny, in a mordant sort of way, about luxury hotels, malls and millionaires in the “besieged gaza strip”.


----------



## Hollie

The IDF was doing some remodeling of Gaza’istan after the latest 
gee-had attack.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Those crying phony refugees ]

Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Executive Committee, sent a letter to the UN Secretary-General demanding that the inquiry into allegations of corruption in UNRWA, the UN agency for “Palestinian refugees”, conclude before the end of September.

Erekat noted that it is important to end the investigation before the UNRWA mandate is renewed in order to enable it to raise the funds needed to continue its activities at the donor countries conference that will take place at the end of September.

A recent UN ethics report alleged mismanagement and abuses of authority at the highest levels of UNRWA, including involving UNRWA's top official, Commissioner-General Pierre Krahenbuhl.

In the wake of the report, Switzerland said it was suspending funding to UNRWA. The Netherlands followed Switzerland and suspended its contribution to the organization as well.

(full article online)

PA making effort to renew aid to UNRWA


----------



## Hollie

More dead Arab-Moslem Death Cultists after a failed gee-had attack.

That resulted in Hamas groupies calling for more gee-had attacks. 



Breaking News
03:47 | 08/18/19

PROTESTERS IN GAZA CALL ON HAMAS TO LAUNCH MORE ATTACKS ON ISRAEL
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF
_
Protesters called on the terrorist movements in Gaza to launch more rockets at Israel as a spontaneous march broke out in the northern Gaza Strip in support of the terrorists who were killed while attempting to infiltrate into southern Israel on Saturday night, according to the Palestinian Quds news agency. 

Protesters in Gaza call on Hamas to launch more attacks on Israel

On Saturday night, five armed Palestinians were killed by IDF troops as they tried to cross into southern Israel from Beit Hanoun in Gaza shortly after three rockets were launched into southern Israel. _


----------



## Hollie

Oh, well. Just rebellious Islamo-yutes, with weapons and a lifetime of indoctrination in a politico-religious Death Cult. 



*Hamas says armed men killed by IDF on Gaza border were ‘rebellious youth’
*


----------



## Hollie

Because Islamic Terrorism carries consequences


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The Hamas / Islamic gee-had terrorists who represent the Iranian occupation army in Gaza are dealing with a publicity crisis. The kuffar innovated social media networks are an outlet for “unauthorized” information about the trials and travails of failed Islamic terrorist attacks. Apparently, dead Islamic terrorists as a result of failed Islamic terrorist attacks is bad for Islamic terrorists public image. 







HAMAS: DON'T SHARE UNAUTHORIZED INFORMATION ABOUT INFILTRATION ATTEMPT

Hamas: Don't share unauthorized information about infiltration attempt

A spokesman for the Hamas-run Gazan Interior Ministry asked social media users not to circulate information not attributed to official authorities about "what is happening in the northern Gaza Strip" on Saturday night, according to the Hamas-affiliated Shehab news agency.

On Saturday night, five armed Palestinians were killed by IDF troops as they tried to cross into southern Israel from Beit Hanoun in Gaza shortly after three rockets were launched into southern Israel. 

The five armed men were reported to be members of both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s military wing, Saraya al-Quds.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notwithstanding the video footage, official PA TV in reporting the story totally ignored the terror attack and referred rather to the children being shot and a "summary execution," as if these were innocent children. In addition, the would be murderer was called a "Martyr", which Palestinian religious leaders have repeatedly explained represents the highest achievement that can be attained by a Muslim. 

Ignoring the circumstances, PA officials then used the event to condemn Israel for arbitrarily closing the Temple Mount in an attempt to inflate hatred of Israel.

(full article online)

PA lies, but video tells the truth - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Bronwyn

All this for nothing. Who are palistinians? They were desert rat arabs that no country wanted. Even their own arab brethern keep them in camps.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bronwyn said:


> All this for nothing. Who are palistinians? They were desert rat arabs that no country wanted. Even their own arab brethern keep them in camps.


Actually, the Palestinians are people who lived in the land since the Arab invasion, but not all of them arrived on the land back then.
Most of them are recent arrivals who lived all over Europe and the Middle East.

They came mainly around the end of the 19th century until 1948, drawn by the job opportunities which the Jews provided as the Jews worked towards recreating their Nation via the Mandate for Palestine, from 1920 on.

Not all Arabs are "rats", or "desert rats".  Most are stuck in being born into Islam, and descendants of those who were there until 1948.
Also stuck with the endlessly Jew hating curriculum and culture they receive on a daily basis from the PLO/PA/Hamas, and all other Muslim groups/clans/tribes.

Other Arabs keep many of them in "camps" and under UNWRA in order to destroy Israel, because they do believe that some day they will succeed as Mohammad succeeded in the 7th century against the Jews, who were their friends and not enemies, and against the Crusaders, as the Ottoman Turks did.

The question continues to be, when is UNWRA going to be dismantled, and this shameful idea of being forever refugees, because the Jewish success in creating Israel, is going to happen.


Let those People GO !!!


----------



## Bronwyn

Sixties Fan said:


> Bronwyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this for nothing. Who are palistinians? They were desert rat arabs that no country wanted. Even their own arab brethern keep them in camps.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Palestinians are people who lived in the land since the Arab invasion, but not all of them arrived on the land back then.
> Most of them are recent arrivals who lived all over Europe and the Middle East.
> 
> They came mainly around the end of the 19th century until 1948, drawn by the job opportunities which the Jews provided as the Jews worked towards recreating their Nation via the Mandate for Palestine, from 1920 on.
> 
> Not all Arabs are "rats", or "desert rats".  Most are stuck in being born into Islam, and descendants of those who were there until 1948.
> Also stuck with the endlessly Jew hating curriculum and culture they receive on a daily basis from the PLO/PA/Hamas, and all other Muslim groups/clans/tribes.
> 
> Other Arabs keep many of them in "camps" and under UNWRA in order to destroy Israel, because they do believe that some day they will succeed as Mohammad succeeded in the 7th century against the Jews, who were their friends and not enemies, and against the Crusaders, as the Ottoman Turks did.
> 
> The question continues to be, when is UNWRA going to be dismantled, and this shameful idea of being forever refugees, because the Jewish success in creating Israel, is going to happen.
> 
> 
> Let those People GO !!!
Click to expand...

They can go back to their arab countries then. Those countries reject them too.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bronwyn said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bronwyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this for nothing. Who are palistinians? They were desert rat arabs that no country wanted. Even their own arab brethern keep them in camps.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Palestinians are people who lived in the land since the Arab invasion, but not all of them arrived on the land back then.
> Most of them are recent arrivals who lived all over Europe and the Middle East.
> 
> They came mainly around the end of the 19th century until 1948, drawn by the job opportunities which the Jews provided as the Jews worked towards recreating their Nation via the Mandate for Palestine, from 1920 on.
> 
> Not all Arabs are "rats", or "desert rats".  Most are stuck in being born into Islam, and descendants of those who were there until 1948.
> Also stuck with the endlessly Jew hating curriculum and culture they receive on a daily basis from the PLO/PA/Hamas, and all other Muslim groups/clans/tribes.
> 
> Other Arabs keep many of them in "camps" and under UNWRA in order to destroy Israel, because they do believe that some day they will succeed as Mohammad succeeded in the 7th century against the Jews, who were their friends and not enemies, and against the Crusaders, as the Ottoman Turks did.
> 
> The question continues to be, when is UNWRA going to be dismantled, and this shameful idea of being forever refugees, because the Jewish success in creating Israel, is going to happen.
> 
> 
> Let those People GO !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can go back to their arab countries then. Those countries reject them too.
Click to expand...

It does not work that way.  They are now "Palestinians" and the only thing they need is for their corrupt governments to stop making war with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Dead wannabes in the tunnel gee-had that went wrong.








They had a pothole in a street named after them.


----------



## Hollie

The gimpy gee-had


----------



## Sixties Fan

Click on the video below and watch a hate-filled elderly Arab woman recalling with delight her memories of those murders, some of which involved rape, torture and sexual mutilations. They’ve all have remained with this woman to this day, without a hint of remorse or shame, only glee and satisfaction, and a hearty blessing that her children and grandchildren share in future massacres of Jews:

(full article online)

Vile Woman Rejoices in the Massacre of 67 Hebron Jews


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Sixties Fan said:


> Click on the video below and watch a hate-filled elderly Arab woman recalling with delight her memories of those murders, some of which involved rape, torture and sexual mutilations. They’ve all have remained with this woman to this day, without a hint of remorse or shame, only glee and satisfaction, and a hearty blessing that her children and grandchildren share in future massacres of Jews:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Vile Woman Rejoices in the Massacre of 67 Hebron Jews



Very hard to read.  I thank you for posting it.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is losing grip in the sense that Iranian welfare money for Hamas comes with conditions.

The Shia mullahs are dictating islamic terrorist attacks and Hamas will, at some point, see the Israeli response.  
*


Analysis: Escalating Incidents on Gaza-Israel Border Indicate Hamas Is Losing Its Grip

Hamas: Israeli strikes in Gaza meant to distract from West Bank attacks
*
Spokesman for terror group says Israeli raids after rocket fire from Strip send a ‘message of escalation and aggression’



It seems the spokes-terrorist for Hamas missed the part in his statement that identified "...Israeli raids after rocket fire from..."


----------



## Hollie

*PA lies, but video tells the truth*

By Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.

PA lies, but video tells the truth - PMW Bulletins

On Thursday afternoon, two 14 year old Palestinians exited the Temple Mount and immediately stabbed and attempted to murder an Israeli policeman. Video footage shows the attack, the wounded policeman falling to the ground, and the quick response of the other policemen who shot the 2 terrorists before they could continue stabbing the fallen policeman or others. As soon as the terrorists fell to the ground, one policeman is seen raising his hand signaling to the others to stop shooting. The entire terror attack lasted only a few seconds, and left one officer wounded, one terrorist dead, while the second terrorist died later of his wounds.


























Notwithstanding the video footage, official PA TV in reporting the story totally ignored the terror attack and referred rather to the children being shot and a "summary execution," as if these were innocent children. In addition, the would be murderer was called a "Martyr", which Palestinian religious leaders have repeatedly explained represents the highest achievement that can be attained by a Muslim.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This immoral Palestineism ideology manifests itself in many ways:


The Palestinian Authority has a law which calls for the death penalty for any Arab who sells land to a Jew.
The PA gives lifetime stipends to Arabs who murder Jews.
The Palestinians refuse to allow Jews to step foot on Arab college campusesin the West Bank, even journalists who loudly condemn Israel.
When Muslims ruled Hebron, they refused to allow Jews from entering their second holiest place, the Tomb of the Jewish Patriarchs.
Muslim Arabs continue to refuse to let the Jews pray at their holiest location, the Jewish Temple Mount.
The list goes on.

Palestineism, in its very essence, is about the repression of the dignity and integrity of Jews as human beings, with full rights to live and worship freely in their holy land. The toxicity has spread from the leadership and the state-controlled media to infuse the people who are the most anti-Semitic in the world.

(full article online)

Palestineism is Toxic Racism


----------



## Sixties Fan

Facebook Post Calling to Murder Israeli Officer Incites Followers


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA police: Gay activities are "a violation of the highest ideals and values of the Palestinian society."*

*"The police will prevent any activity by the homosexual group."*

*"Police are searching for the organizers of this [Gay] gathering - and they will be transferred to the legal authorities the moment they are caught."*

*Police called on Palestinians "to contact the police and report any person who has a connection to this [Gay rights] organization."*

(full article online)

PA chasing down Homosexuals - PMW Bulletins


[ And in the meantime, Trump "the defender of Israel" hunts down Transgender people in the US ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Research on PA women's rights violations that does not blame Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

How Palestinian Arab society weaponizes its children and encourages stabbing attacks in particular has troubled us for years. 

It's a chronic form of incitement that starts at the highest levels of the Palestinian Arab power structure: *click* for indexed articles.

Three years ago we wrote about how there is no way of avoiding the reality of large swathes of Palestinian Arab society being in the obvious thrall of a passionate embrace of vicious bigotry, murderous savagery and explicit incitement of their own children and grandchildren to murder and to be killed.

Two outside actors deserve a special mention in this grotesquerie:

The central role of *UNRWA*, ostensibly an agency that exists to ameliorate the suffering of Arab refugees (Palestinian Arab refugees to be more precise) but in reality a cornerstone of the seven-decades-long Arab strategy to keep the Palestinian Arabs displaced, as miserable as possible and in the news - ought to be acknowledged at this point. By their own reckoning, they play a huge role in the education of Palestinian Arab children. They are certainly part of the problem and not of the solution.
*Amnesty International*'s increasingly explicit identification with the practitioners of the Palestinian Arab brand of terror makes plain their abandonment of principle and betrayal of their supporters' values. As we have noted several times [most recently here: "*20-Sep-16: Another Pal Arab boy with a knife died today - exactly as the PA intended him to*"], there's no longer anything to expect from them.
More than 80 of our blog posts have the tag "Weaponizing Children". This would be an excellent time to re-acquaint ourselves with the betrayal of, and the outrages perpetrated on, the children of Palestinian Arab society by those responsible for their well-being.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 16-Aug-19: Children with knives and another Arab-on-Israeli stabbing frenzy


----------



## Hollie

They're like MS-13 with korans. 


Hamas: Murder Israeli policeman who shot 17-year-old Palestinian stabber

Israel News
19:11 | 08/19/19

HAMAS: MURDER ISRAELI POLICEMAN WHO SHOT 17-YEAR-OLD PALESTINIAN STABBER
By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN
_




Israeli police officers . (photo credit:" IM TIRTZU)
The teen stabbed a police officer in a terrorist attack near the entrance to the Temple Mount last week
Palestinians are calling to murder the Israeli police officer who shot and killed 17-year-old Nassim Abu Rumi.

The teen stabbed a police officer in a terrorist attack near the entrance to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City last Thursday. He was accompanied by 14-year-old Hamoudeh Al-Sheikh, who was critically wounded in the event._


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How soon before the EU or Qatar come to the rescue ? ]

*Ramallah does not provide further details on move, prompted by tax dispute with Israel; PA president demands cabinet return raises*

Abbas fires all his advisers amid financial crunch


----------



## Hollie

Islamic protesters call for strikes against Israel. 

Good decision. Go with that.

Breaking News
03:47 | 08/18/19

PROTESTERS IN GAZA CALL ON HAMAS TO LAUNCH MORE ATTACKS ON ISRAEL
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF

_Protesters in Gaza call on Hamas to launch more attacks on Israel

Protesters called on the terrorist movements in Gaza to launch more rockets at Israel as a spontaneous march broke out in the northern Gaza Strip in support of the terrorists who were killed while attempting to infiltrate into southern Israel on Saturday night, according to the Palestinian Quds news agency. _


----------



## Sixties Fan

This week is the 50th anniversary of the burning of part of the Al Aqsa Mosque by a crazed Australian Christian, Denis Michael Rohan.

Every year the Arab media claims that Jews and Israelwere the ones who set the fire. On this half century anniversary, get ready for some serious incitement.

Hamas is starting by declaring that this Friday they this week's theme for the Friday "March of Return" demonstration is dedicated against the "Judaization of Jerusalem," with the 1969 arson as exhibit A.

(full article online)

Get ready for Arabs to falsely blame Jews for burning of Al Aqsa 50 years ago ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It seems all you can do is shrug your shoulders and understand that for some, “ignorance is bliss” denotes a lifestyle. 


Tlaib, Omar Hope to Visit a ‘Free’ Bethlehem, Which Has Been Under Palestinian Control for Years


(CNSNews.com) – Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) tweeted Sunday that she and Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) would someday “see Bethlehem and InshAllah [Allah willing] it will be free when we do.”

Omar retweeted her colleague’s post, and added the words, “One day very soon


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It seems all you can do is shrug your shoulders and understand that for some, “ignorance is bliss” denotes a lifestyle.
> 
> 
> Tlaib, Omar Hope to Visit a ‘Free’ Bethlehem, Which Has Been Under Palestinian Control for Years
> 
> 
> (CNSNews.com) – Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) tweeted Sunday that she and Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) would someday “see Bethlehem and InshAllah [Allah willing] it will be free when we do.”
> 
> Omar retweeted her colleague’s post, and added the words, “One day very soon


Stupid article.The PA only "controls" 18% of the governate of Bethlehem. (Israel controls all travel, trade, and tourism. The PA can control what is left.) The city itself is cut off from its supporting territory that has the resources it needs to survive.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems all you can do is shrug your shoulders and understand that for some, “ignorance is bliss” denotes a lifestyle.
> 
> 
> Tlaib, Omar Hope to Visit a ‘Free’ Bethlehem, Which Has Been Under Palestinian Control for Years
> 
> 
> (CNSNews.com) – Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) tweeted Sunday that she and Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) would someday “see Bethlehem and InshAllah [Allah willing] it will be free when we do.”
> 
> Omar retweeted her colleague’s post, and added the words, “One day very soon
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid article.The PA only "controls" 18% of the governate of Bethlehem. (Israel controls all travel, trade, and tourism. The PA can control what is left.) The city itself is cut off from its supporting territory that has the resources it needs to survive.
Click to expand...


I understand you’re hoping to deflect. I just find it laughable that the half-squad Islamic activists have no knowledge of what they’re rattling on about , similar to your half-baked notions of Bethlehem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems all you can do is shrug your shoulders and understand that for some, “ignorance is bliss” denotes a lifestyle.
> 
> 
> Tlaib, Omar Hope to Visit a ‘Free’ Bethlehem, Which Has Been Under Palestinian Control for Years
> 
> 
> (CNSNews.com) – Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) tweeted Sunday that she and Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) would someday “see Bethlehem and InshAllah [Allah willing] it will be free when we do.”
> 
> Omar retweeted her colleague’s post, and added the words, “One day very soon
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid article.The PA only "controls" 18% of the governate of Bethlehem. (Israel controls all travel, trade, and tourism. The PA can control what is left.) The city itself is cut off from its supporting territory that has the resources it needs to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand you’re hoping to deflect. I just find it laughable that the half-squad Islamic activists have no knowledge of what they’re rattling on about , similar to your half-baked notions of Bethlehem.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little? The governate (actually governorate) of Bethlehem goes from Jerusalem to the dead sea. How much of that is under PA control?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems all you can do is shrug your shoulders and understand that for some, “ignorance is bliss” denotes a lifestyle.
> 
> 
> Tlaib, Omar Hope to Visit a ‘Free’ Bethlehem, Which Has Been Under Palestinian Control for Years
> 
> 
> (CNSNews.com) – Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) tweeted Sunday that she and Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) would someday “see Bethlehem and InshAllah [Allah willing] it will be free when we do.”
> 
> Omar retweeted her colleague’s post, and added the words, “One day very soon
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid article.The PA only "controls" 18% of the governate of Bethlehem. (Israel controls all travel, trade, and tourism. The PA can control what is left.) The city itself is cut off from its supporting territory that has the resources it needs to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand you’re hoping to deflect. I just find it laughable that the half-squad Islamic activists have no knowledge of what they’re rattling on about , similar to your half-baked notions of Bethlehem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little? The governate (actually governorate) of Bethlehem goes from Jerusalem to the dead sea. How much of that is under PA control?
Click to expand...

Why do you spam with cartoons you don’t understand?

You know less about Bethlehem than the half-squad.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had. 

They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks. 
*

In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
*
Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
Today, 10:37 am  5





Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.


----------



## Hollie

Is anyone buying into the Islamic terrorist “lone-wolf”, nonsense?

How many lonely wolf Islamic terrorists happen to have hand grenades, automatic weapons and RPG’s laying around?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had.
> 
> They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks.
> *
> 
> In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
> *
> Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
> Today, 10:37 am  5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.


You played the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had.
> 
> They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks.
> *
> 
> In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
> *
> Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
> Today, 10:37 am  5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


You played the cut and paste slogan card. 

So predictable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had.
> 
> They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks.
> *
> 
> In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
> *
> Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
> Today, 10:37 am  5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You played the cut and paste slogan card.
> 
> So predictable.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had.
> 
> They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks.
> *
> 
> In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
> *
> Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
> Today, 10:37 am  5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You played the cut and paste slogan card.
> 
> So predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I take this to mean that you don't disagree with my comments, you're just suffering from hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

Golly. I guess Mahmoud had to make the choice between paying his financial advisers, the islamic terrorists he supports or making deposits to his various bank accounts. 

I'm guessing he will still make payments toward the maintenance contract on his presidential jet. 



*Abbas fires all advisers*

Abbas fires all advisers

PA chairman fires all of his advisers amid budget crisis. Payments to terrorists to continue amid austerity measures.

AFP and Arutz Sheva Staff, 19/08/19 18:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had.
> 
> They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks.
> *
> 
> In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
> *
> Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
> Today, 10:37 am  5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You played the cut and paste slogan card.
> 
> So predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I take this to mean that you don't disagree with my comments, you're just suffering from hurt feelings.
Click to expand...

You keep pimping Israel's boogyman and terrorist propaganda campaign.

Why do you shill for Israel? What is in it for you?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists are infuriated. They want their entitlement to commit acts of Islamic terrorism while maintaining their entitlement to Qatari welfare dollars to support the gee-had.
> 
> They must be serious with these new threats. They’re wearing their ski-masks.
> *
> 
> In ultimatum, Hamas tells Israelis to ease blockade or face renewed violence
> *
> Amid surge in ‘lone-wolf’ perpetrators, Gazan terror group says assaults will escalate unless Israel ups electricity supply and permits Qatari funds to enter the enclave
> Today, 10:37 am  5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has reportedly issued a direct threat to escalate the violence along the Gaza-Israel border if Israel hinders the entry of Qatari cash into the Gaza Strip and fails to increase the supply of electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You played the cut and paste slogan card.
> 
> So predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I take this to mean that you don't disagree with my comments, you're just suffering from hurt feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep pimping Israel's boogyman and terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Why do you shill for Israel? What is in it for you?
Click to expand...


I'm not responsible for your hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

Pal'istanian lives matter.... to die for the Hamas caliphate in furtherance of the gee-had.


Hamas cancels classes in Gaza to send children to 'riot' against Israel, IDF says


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ammar Fareed Tawfiq al-Astal, 32, was killed in an accident caused by an explosion during while he was preparing a bomb.

Most Arabic media are just saying that a man was killed in an explosion without identifying what terror group he might belong to, but the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades of Fatah said he was a commander of a brigade of Khan Younis.

Here's his martyr poster:



Work accident! Fatah member blows himself up. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

_"_Sinwar the mental patient" was on a roll. In typical diseased islamic fashion, he was wailing about the death and destruction he will bring to the Jews. 

Tough talk from a psychopath who survives on welfare. 
_



In an August 16, 2019 speech, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar promised that Hamas will never give up its weapons, its tunnels, or its missiles, of which he said Hamas has many. He promised to the Palestinian refugees from Ashkelon that, on the day of battle, Ashkelon will be destroyed and that hundreds of missiles will be launched into Israel in a single salvo_


Video:
"Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar: We Will Destroy Ashkelon, Other Israeli Cities, with Hundreds of Missiles in a Single Salvo"


----------



## Hollie

Bring your kids to the war zone you create because children are replaceable. You can always breed again,.


----------



## Hollie

A rather brutally honest piece by Rep. Lee Zeldin. I really couldn’t find anything I disagreed with.





Rep. Lee Zeldin: Tlaib, Omar all about weakening Israel, they stay silent on Hamas, Palestinian Authority

It should come as no shock that Democratic Reps. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan are unwelcome in Israel, a nation they are taking great pains to tear down. Their latest PR stunt is an attempt to victimize themselves, whitewash history and spin reality – providing even further proof of their worst of intentions.


----------



## Hollie

The unhinged islamic terrorist kleptocrat in Mahmoud'istan has gone off on another tirade.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said in an address at the Jalazone Refugee Camp near Ramallah that the Palestinians cannot be removed from their homeland and that every building built by the Zionist occupation will be destroyed and thrown in the garbage bin of history. He claimed that the Palestinians are the Canaanites who have lived in Palestine for 5,000 years, and he rejected the conferences in Warsaw and Manama as unacceptable to the Palestinian people.


Video:
"PA President Mahmoud Abbas at Jalazone Refugee Camp: We Will Enter Jerusalem as Millions of Fighters; Our Martyrs Are the Most Sacred Thing We Have" 


Im afraid the boy has lost all connections to reality.


----------



## Hollie

*Pal'istan Today
*
One of the real adventures in absurdity is to read the absurdities coming out of the competing, islamic terrorist mini-caliphates.

Palestinian Authority bans LGBT activities in West Bank

*"Targeting LGBTQ Organization, Palestinian Authority Calls to Halt West Bank Community Event"*


Later in the article we find that:

Luay Zreikat, spokesperson for the PA Police, told the _Jerusalem Post_ that activities from the organization are “harmful to the higher values and ideals of Palestinian society.”


Hold on there, Luay. We are treated routinely to "_higher values and ideals of Palestinian society_.” which include bringing children to the deadly riots you create and using those children as human shields and other islamic terrorist acts of brutality.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Is this another case of someone from Gaza wanting a vacation inside Israeli Prisons? ]

Palestinian tries to strangle off-duty IDF soldier at border crossing


----------



## Hollie

New responses by the IDF to Islamic terrorist attacks



*IDF STRIKES HAMAS TARGETS IN GAZA*

IDF strikes Hamas targets in Gaza

_IDF forces strike Gaza targets_
This was the sixth rocket fired from Gaza in the last seven days according to the IDF Twitter account.


----------



## Hollie

The competing Islamic terrorist franchises have maintained an occasional, short term Hudna but they have always been at each other’s throats. 

Their civil war has never ended.


*Hamas: Busier than ever in the West Bank*

*https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/08/21/hamas-west/
*
While there is no solid proof that Hamas was involved in the recent murder of Dvir Sorek, there is proof aplenty that it is working in Judea and Samaria not only to carry out terrorist attacks against Israelis but also to topple the PA.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This one from Al Resalah in English is similar to the Arabic articles out there.

[  On August 21, 1969, the Al-Aqsa Mosque was burned, the first of the two Islamic Qibla and the third major mosque that attracts the traveler. The Zionist entity claimed that a young Australian named Dennis Michael Rohan carried it out, but this incident came within the framework of a series of actions carried out by the Zionist occupation since 1948 with the aim of obliterating the Islamic civilization identity of the city of Jerusalem.

Golda Meir, then Prime Minister of the Zionist entity, said after the incident; "I did not sleep all night, I was afraid that the Arabs could enter Israel  in big groups from everywhere, but when the sun rose the next day I knew that we can do anything we want!"

These words were the key to Zionist barbarism in the occupied territories.The Golda Meir quote is, of course, a complete fabrication. ]

It has been mentioned in other Arab newspapers . It is even listed as a "famous quote"  in the Arabic Wikipedia page for Golda Meir (without a footnote.)

If there is ever to be peace, the Arab side has to learn to distinguish between truth and falsehood. They argue with complete conviction the most absurd lies, but too many in the West believe the conviction and don't bother to check the facts.

(full article online)

A fake Golda Meir quote to mark the 50th anniversary of the Al Aqsa arson ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians agree to some tax transfers from Israel as cash crunch mounts


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the competing Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza’istan are having a bit of a power struggle. 

The Iranian Mullocrats must be having a laugh as their lackeys are being turned against each other. Looks like this could turn into full blown tribal warfare. 
*


Exclusive: Hamas demands handover of Islamic Jihad cell blamed for rocket fire*
i24NEWS
The Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas has requested the Palestinian Islamic Jihad  militant group to hand over a cell of four operatives identified in connection with the rocket launched at southern Israel on Wednesday, sources told i24NEWS.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today marks 90 years since the Hebron Massacre of 67 Jews. Rampaging Arabs also murdered Jews in Jerusalem and Tzefat. In total, in the course of just one week, Arabs murdered 130 Jews. 

While the massacre took place in 1929, over 60 years before its creation, the Palestinian Authority has wholeheartedly adopted the event, glorifying three of its participants and perpetuating the spark that ignited the massacre.

In the aftermath of the massacres, British mandate forces arrested and prosecuted dozens of Arabs. While most of the death sentences handed down were commuted to life imprisonment, three Arabs who, according to a report by the British government to the League of Nations, "committed particularly brutal murders at Safad and Hebron" were put to death on June 17, 1930.   

Every year the PA marks the execusion of these three murderers - Muhammad Jamjoum, Fuad Hijazi, and Ataa Al-Zir. 

In June this year, on the 89th anniversary of their execution, PA TV marked the execution of "the three heroes" and used the opportunity to add that they have become "a legend of self-sacrifice for the homeland" and that "souls that have been sacrificed for their country will not die." In this manner, the PA constantly reinforces its message that dying while carrying out an act of terrorism is an outcome that guarantees that the souls of the terrorists do not die.

(full article online)

The PA connection to the 1929 murder of 130 Jews - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

A video posted on Thursday evening on social media showed Arab workers abusing a Jewish haredi worker in the Gush Etzion branch of the supermarket chain Shufersal.

The video shows the Jewish worker standing without his kippah (skullcap), with his hands secured to his body with saran wrap, while an Arab worker insults him and slaps him in the face over and over.

(full article online)

Shocking video: Arab employees abuse Jewish colleague


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas terror organization on Friday praised the perpetrators of a bombing in the West Bank that claimed the life of a 17-year-old Israeli girl and seriously injured her father and brother.

Hamas in a statement said the bomb attack was “proof of the vitality and bravery of the Palestinian people, and of the fact that it will not surrender to the crimes and terrorism of the occupation.”

(full article online)

Hamas lauds ‘brave, heroic’ perpetrators of bombing attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

David Abrams, a lawyer who has gone after anti-Israel groups before, has filed a lawsuit against UCLA to reveal the names of the speakers.

Abrams told me, "My argument is that UCLA permitted the conference to go forward on the ground that there should be 'open debate.' In my view, 'open debate' does not mean that you get to make a public presentation on the campus of a public university in secret. "

"Moreover," he continued, "the public has a right to investigate UCLA's compliance with anti-terrorism laws."

Abrams is suing based on his information that UCLA has received grants from USAID and therefore
 must regularly certify to the State Department that it does not provide material support  to anyone associated with terrorism. Hosting a known terrorist speaker at a conference may be considered material support for terrorism.  Abrams points out in the official complaint that SJP has previously hosted Khader Adnan, an admitted member of Islamic Jihad,  a U.S.-designated terrorist organization.

(full article online)

UCLA sued to reveal names of SJP conference speakers last November ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Lacasa Mall.

I need participants for some three part harmony. Wait for the chorus to come around.....

“Oh, those Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians “


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> David Abrams, a lawyer who has gone after anti-Israel groups before, has filed a lawsuit against UCLA to reveal the names of the speakers.
> 
> Abrams told me, "My argument is that UCLA permitted the conference to go forward on the ground that there should be 'open debate.' In my view, 'open debate' does not mean that you get to make a public presentation on the campus of a public university in secret. "
> 
> "Moreover," he continued, "the public has a right to investigate UCLA's compliance with anti-terrorism laws."
> 
> Abrams is suing based on his information that UCLA has received grants from USAID and therefore
> must regularly certify to the State Department that it does not provide material support  to anyone associated with terrorism. Hosting a known terrorist speaker at a conference may be considered material support for terrorism.  Abrams points out in the official complaint that SJP has previously hosted Khader Adnan, an admitted member of Islamic Jihad,  a U.S.-designated terrorist organization.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UCLA sued to reveal names of SJP conference speakers last November ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Grasping at straws.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> David Abrams, a lawyer who has gone after anti-Israel groups before, has filed a lawsuit against UCLA to reveal the names of the speakers.
> 
> Abrams told me, "My argument is that UCLA permitted the conference to go forward on the ground that there should be 'open debate.' In my view, 'open debate' does not mean that you get to make a public presentation on the campus of a public university in secret. "
> 
> "Moreover," he continued, "the public has a right to investigate UCLA's compliance with anti-terrorism laws."
> 
> Abrams is suing based on his information that UCLA has received grants from USAID and therefore
> must regularly certify to the State Department that it does not provide material support  to anyone associated with terrorism. Hosting a known terrorist speaker at a conference may be considered material support for terrorism.  Abrams points out in the official complaint that SJP has previously hosted Khader Adnan, an admitted member of Islamic Jihad,  a U.S.-designated terrorist organization.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UCLA sued to reveal names of SJP conference speakers last November ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
Click to expand...


Hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists represented by the Hamas franchise must be taking it as a slight that the Islamic gee-had franchise is not kowtowing to their demands. That shouldn’t come as a surprise. Both franchises have accepted a measure of obedience to the Shia mullahs in Iran who are financing both Sunni terrorist franchises. The mullahs will be the ones making decisions about those matters as they have an interest in furthering attacks aimed at Israel by Islamic gee-had.  That puts both of the hated enemies of Shia Iran, (the Sunni and the Jewish people), at risk of war and it opens the possibility of tribal war between the competing Sunni tribes.



*https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/08...ran-backed-palestinian-islamic-jihad-in-gaza/*

*Following Wednesday night's rocket attack on southern Israel, the third such attack in less than a week, Hamas asks Palestinian Islamic Jihad to hand over the operatives behind the rocket attack for interrogation. PIJ has thus far refused the request.*


----------



## Hollie

I think Mahmoud’s presidential jet needs new tires and brakes. 
*


Palestinian president fires advisers, orders return of bonuses


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/palestinian-president-fires-advisers-orders-return-bonuses-190819163705943.html *

Moves believed to be part of efforts to cut costs and recuperate funds after Israel stopped delivering tax revenues.


----------



## Hollie

Did The Emir of West Bank’istan just give himself a raise?



'Fuel crisis between PA and Israel over': Palestinians to accept $568 million in tax money

Defense establishment recommended move in light of grave financial crisis endured by* the PA, which agreed to receive the funds days after Abbas fired top advisers*


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestinian" Arabs Celebrate By Showing Their True Colors


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslim woman gets herself arrested on the Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine - The Invention of a Nation


----------



## Hollie

It may be that tribal warfare in the Islamic terrorist free-for-all, (sometimes called the new zip code for Tehran), is warming up. 

Something called the “PLO’s Department for Refugee Affairs” (one of the various post office boxes that constitute a distribution point for UNRWA welfare money to disappear), labeled the break in as an “assault”. 

PLO: Hamas responsible for assault on our Gaza offices

The assailants stormed the PLO’s Department for Refugee Affairs, destroyed furniture and stole various items, sources in the Gaza Strip said.

The PLO on Sunday condemned an “assault” on its offices in the Gaza Strip and said the unknown assailants were backed by Hamas.

The assailants stormed the PLO’s Department for Refugee Affairs, destroyed furniture and stole various items, sources in the Gaza Strip said. No group claimed responsibility for the “assault” and the motives of the attackers were unknown.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA fails to condemn murder of 17-year-old Israeli girl, but when murderers are caught PA will reward them - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely folks those Arabs-Moslems. 

The article notes that the IDF soldier who took the photo wears the uniform of one of the strongest militaries. Israel, being one of the strongest militaries in the world is what has prevented the Arabs-Moslems from carrying on the legacy of Hitler’s Nazi regime. 

*IDF Soldier With Relatives Who Died in Holocaust Horrified at Hamas Swastika*
By Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz August 25, 2019 , 3:25 pm

IDF Soldier With Relatives Who Died in Holocaust Horrified at Hamas Swastika



Photographed today by a soldier stationed on the border fence with Gaza. Her relatives were murdered in the Holocaust by Nazis. Like them, she knows what the swastika means. But today, she saw that symbol while wearing the uniform of one of the world’s strongest militaries.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hasmonean fortress that overlooked ancient Samaria road has become a favorite target for Arab antiquity thieves.


Arabs loot ancient Hasmonean fortress


----------



## Hollie

Call’em psychopaths or just pious Moslems.

Moslem leaders who are just following the doctrinal elements of their beliefs are difficult to dismiss. Any reasonable person can listen to their rantings and come to conclusions about their interpretation of the ideology. From the nearly daily occurrences of Islamic terrorism we can derive patterns of behavior. The sheiks, muftis, clerics and mosque leaders get their message of hate for the infidel from _somewhere_. 


_In an August 16, 2019 Friday sermon at the Kawthar Badran Mosque in Nablus, Palestinian Sheikh Muhammad Nour Malhas cited an antisemitic hadith that says that the Muslims will fight and kill the Jews on Judgement Day and that the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, which will call out to the Muslims to kill the Jews hiding behind them. Sheikh Nour pointed out that the hadith refers to "servants of Allah," and he said that this serves to exclude hypocrites and Muslims who normalize relations with Israel. He added a prayer asking Allah to make the congregation from among His mujahideen and murabiteen._



Video
"In Nablus Friday Sermon, Sheikh Muhammad Nour Malhas: People Who Normalize Relations with Israel Will Not Be Among Muslims to Kill Jews on Judgement Day"


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Breeding the next generation of psychopaths.




Teaching Palestinian Children to Value Terrorism

Teaching Palestinian Children to Value Terrorism

A new study of Palestinian textbooks finds that Palestinian children are being taught to glorify and value terrorism and violence. The study, called "Palestinian Elementary School Curriculum 2016–17: Radicalization and Revival of the PLO Program," was conducted by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (in Jerusalem) and can be found here.


----------



## Hollie

The IAF has done some remodeling in Gaza’istan. 



Israeli warplanes hit Gaza after Palestinian rocket fire: Army

Israeli warplanes hit positions belonging to the Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas movement early on Monday in response to rocket fire into Israel, the army said in a statement, as it announced a cut in fuel supplies to the besieged Strip.

Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem denied the group's involvement, Maan news agency reported, saying that Palestinian factions in the enclave were not responsible for any rocket fire.

Earlier, the Israeli military said three rockets were fired from Gaza into southern Israel overnight.


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in the lawless islamic territories where psychopaths are lauded as heroes.


*'Palestinian' organizations applaud murderous terror attack*

'Palestinian' organizations applaud murderous terror attack

'Heroic action' and 'great merit': Terror groups praise attack which killed 17-year-old, wounded her father and brother.


----------



## Hollie

The Qatari bagman is coming to visit Gaza'istan with more suitcases full of cash. My suspicion is that Qatari welfare money (possibly contributions from other Arab nations), is intended to counter the Iranian influence. 


*Qatari envoy brings Gaza Strip $10 million monthly infusion*

*Qatari envoy brings Gaza Strip $10 million monthly infusion
*

In an August 16 speech, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar said, “We will complete this path, Allah willing. We will amass power in preparation for our return and our liberation.”

“If Allah decrees for the day of his victory and conquest to come, we will lead you, your offspring, your sons to wash this nation of its shame, and to purify the Holy Places, Allah willing.” The Holy Places likely refers to Jerusalem, Israel’s capital.






It's really a strange thing. As much as the Israelis and we Westerners are told in no uncertain terms by the Islamists what they're intentions are, we tend not to believe them or react with surprise at each new gee-had attack. Gee-had is messy and it always means the same thing: Kill the infidels who stand between Islam and its delusions of supremacy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A book titled Palestine: A Four-Thousand-Year History, which seeks to trace modern Palestinian identity back many centuries before the oldest parts of the Hebrew Bible were composed, might be dismissed out of hand as a work of quackery. But the author, Nur Masalha, has a doctorate from a British university and a post at London’s prestigious School of Oriental and African Studies. In a careful review, Alex Stein takes apart the book’s various distortions, half-truths, cherry-picking of evidence, insinuations, and logical leaps, of which a few examples suffice:
_On . . . the enduring use of the name Palestine itself, [one of the book’s core arguments], Masalha provides no evidence to back up this claim. Nor does he identify the people or peoples who [supposedly] used the name Palestine so habitually. . . . [O]f the four specific examples produced to link the term Palestine to the Late Bronze Age (3300 to 1200 BCE), three are taken from the 7th century CE onward. Despite its presentation as a 4,000-year history, Palestine has a distinct bias toward the era that followed the Islamic conquest of the Levant in 636 CE.

Even when he is writing about the Bronze Age, Masalha strives to emphasize the Arab connection:

Arabic-language epigraphic evidence from Palestine east of the Jordan River is extensive, with some Arabic inscriptions dating from the Roman era and as early as 150 CE. In fact, Palestine is extremely rich in Arabic inscriptions, most of which date from the early Islamic and Umayyad periods.A more relevant observation, especially in a chapter dealing with the Late Bronze Age, [which ended by] 500 BCE, would clearly be the numerous Hebrew inscriptions discovered by archaeologists and dating from that period._

Likewise, despite repeatedly insisting that his goal is to “read the history of Palestine through the eyes of the indigenous” in order to create a “pluralist” version of history as opposed to the version shaped by colonialism, Masalha goes to great lengths to minimize Jewish history in the land of Israel. As Stein puts it, “there is no room for Jews in Masalha’s ‘pluralist’ reading of Palestine’s history, other than as passive members of a ‘faith community’ living under Arab Muslim hegemony.” And as a historian explicitly hostile to imperialism and colonialism, Masalha has a notable blind spot, as evidenced by his discussion of “indigenous” vs. “settler-colonist” place names:

(full article online)

Fabricating Palestinian History


----------



## Sixties Fan

The birth of the modern-day State of Israel in 1948 caused “the wholesale flight and expulsion of much of the Arab population of Palestine” (still unidentified, according to Khalidi, as Palestinians). Indeed, as late as the 1950s and 1960s, “there were few indications … of the existence of an independent Palestinian identity or of Palestinian nationalism.” But “the experience of defeat, dispossession, and exile guaranteed that they knew what their identity was very soon afterwards: they were Palestinians.” The argument that Palestinian nationalism has “deep historical roots” expresses “a nationalist consciousness and identity that are, in fact, relatively modern.”

Abbas’s claim prompted Eli E. Hertz, a student of myths and facts about the Middle East, to illuminate its absurdity from a different perspective. He notes that before 1948, “Palestine” had been the preferred term of Jewish identification. The pre-state Jewish Agency began as the Jewish Agency for Palestine. The Jerusalem Post had been The Palestine Post. The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra was known as the Palestine Symphony Orchestra.

While there may be no better way to assert a claim of ancient Palestinian identity than to locate it in the pre-Israelite Canaanites, it should be recognized as an absurd fictional myth disguised as fact. To be sure, some Palestinian Arabs deferred to historical truth. Shortly before the birth of the State of Israel, Arab historian Philip Hitti conceded: “There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.” Why was it, wondered Walid Shoebat from Bethlehem, “that on June 4, 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian. … We considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of a sudden we were Palestinians.”

Even Columbia literary scholar and prominent Palestinian advocate Edward Said (whose name adorns Khalidi’s professorship) constructed his own “Palestinian” identity. Born to a Lebanese mother and Egyptian father during a brief family sojourn in Jerusalem, his boyhood was spent amid family wealth and comfort in Cairo. Like Yasser Arafat, he was more Egyptian than Palestinian.

In the end, what is most striking about Palestinian identity — Mahmoud Abbas to the contrary — is its derivation from modern Jewish and Zionist, not Canaanite, sources.

(full article online)

The Myth of Palestinian ‘Canaanites’


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The birth of the modern-day State of Israel in 1948 caused “the wholesale flight and expulsion of much of the Arab population of Palestine” (still unidentified, according to Khalidi, as Palestinians). Indeed, as late as the 1950s and 1960s, “there were few indications … of the existence of an independent Palestinian identity or of Palestinian nationalism.” But “the experience of defeat, dispossession, and exile guaranteed that they knew what their identity was very soon afterwards: they were Palestinians.” The argument that Palestinian nationalism has “deep historical roots” expresses “a nationalist consciousness and identity that are, in fact, relatively modern.”
> 
> Abbas’s claim prompted Eli E. Hertz, a student of myths and facts about the Middle East, to illuminate its absurdity from a different perspective. He notes that before 1948, “Palestine” had been the preferred term of Jewish identification. The pre-state Jewish Agency began as the Jewish Agency for Palestine. The Jerusalem Post had been The Palestine Post. The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra was known as the Palestine Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> While there may be no better way to assert a claim of ancient Palestinian identity than to locate it in the pre-Israelite Canaanites, it should be recognized as an absurd fictional myth disguised as fact. To be sure, some Palestinian Arabs deferred to historical truth. Shortly before the birth of the State of Israel, Arab historian Philip Hitti conceded: “There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.” Why was it, wondered Walid Shoebat from Bethlehem, “that on June 4, 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian. … We considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of a sudden we were Palestinians.”
> 
> Even Columbia literary scholar and prominent Palestinian advocate Edward Said (whose name adorns Khalidi’s professorship) constructed his own “Palestinian” identity. Born to a Lebanese mother and Egyptian father during a brief family sojourn in Jerusalem, his boyhood was spent amid family wealth and comfort in Cairo. Like Yasser Arafat, he was more Egyptian than Palestinian.
> 
> In the end, what is most striking about Palestinian identity — Mahmoud Abbas to the contrary — is its derivation from modern Jewish and Zionist, not Canaanite, sources.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian ‘Canaanites’





Sixties Fan said:


> “there were few indications … of the existence of an independent Palestinian identity or of Palestinian nationalism.”


You are hung up on the name and not on the people.

What were the Native Americans called before it was America? Are they a different people than before it was America? Would they be a different people if they identified themselves to be Americans?

It is a straw man and irrelevant argument.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It is a straw man and irrelevant argument.



It certainly is when you invent a nationality and assign that to an invented people.


----------



## Hollie

It just looks inevitable that both versions of islamic terrorists (Iranian and Hamas, the Iranian wannabes), are going to escalate their attacks to a point where Israel will need to respond with a much wider array of Islamic terrorist beatdowns.




Israel Foils Iranian 'Killer Drone' Attack in Syria, Retaliates Against Hamas in South

JERUSALEM, Israel – Within the past few days, Israelis faced not only Iranian killer drones on their northern border but Hamas missiles on their southern border. 

The Israel Defense Forces attacked Hamas targets in Gaza Sunday night in response to rockets fired at southern Israel earlier on Sunday.

According to the army, three rockets were fired towards Israel, setting off red alert alarms in Sderot, Ibim, Or HaNer, Nir Am, Gevim and Spapir College.


----------



## Hollie

A thumbs-up for two, formerly oxygen wasting islamic militants pious moslems who recently converted to "...and that's that". 


Men killed in IDF strike in Syria identified as Hezbollah militants

According to the Israeli military, the men had traveled to Iran to undergo training with unmanned aerial vehicles with the aim of targeting Israeli military installations and national infrastructure.


----------



## Hollie

Uh oh. He's mad. 

This is a "I'm mad now", grimace if I ever saw one.

But all seriousness aside, Mahmoud, when was there ever a "country of Pal'istan"?




PA SLAMS U.S. FOR REMOVING PALESTINIANS FROM LIST OF COUNTRIES

PA slams U.S. for removing Palestinians from list of countries
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_



_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bombing murder of 17-year-old followed Fatah call for return to terror  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

New Poll: Palestinians Want All of Jerusalem, Prisoners Not as High a Priority as Widely Thought


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. The “country of Sinwar’istan” has an Islamic Terrorist problem. 
*


Deadly Explosions Target Hamas Police Checkpoints in Gaza

Deadly Explosions Target Hamas Police Checkpoints in Gaza
*
GAZA — Two explosions that ripped through Hamas police checkpoints in Gaza City late Tuesday killed three police officers, security officials said on Wednesday, in an uncommon attack believed to have been carried by forces within the territory.


----------



## Hollie

Egypt is in quite a difficult position as a mediator. Whatever dialogue the Egyptians may have with Hamas means little when the Iranian Mullocrats are dictating terms to the islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza.  




Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports

Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports


----------



## Sixties Fan

This alternative narrative suffers from three major inaccuracies. 

 Firstly, no “exhausting negotiations” were needed. Israel has been willing for months to transfer the taxes it had collected, but the PA was unwilling to accept the deducted amounts. The only “exhausting negotiations” required were internal PA negotiations on how to spin the decision to accept the funds without being openly seen as abandoning the PA posturing.

Secondly, Israeli law requires that “Blu” tax be collected on all gas and fuel sold within Israel. A separate provision of the law permits the Israeli Authorities to transfer to the PA any “Blu” collected on gas and fuel destined for the areas under PA control. Since the Israeli Knesset has not functioned for several months (as a result of elections and return elections) it is impossible that any changes in these laws that would allow the PA to import “petroleum without 'Blu' tax retroactively for the past 7 months” could have been passed. 
Thirdly, statistics published by the PA Ministry of Finance (and independently verified by Palestinian Media Watch) show that in the first half of 2019, the income from “Blu” taxes was 1.27 billion shekels - reflecting a monthly average of approximately 211 million shekels. Which means, that by accepting 2 billion shekels (which is hundreds of millions more than the “Blu” taxes revenue), the PA has _de facto_ given in to Israel's demand to accept the tax money minus the terror money deduction. To save face, the PA is lying to its own people and to the international community claiming it is only agreeing to receive the "Blu" tax money.
 While this is perfectly clear to those familiar with the both PA finances and Israel’s legislative process, it is not entirely unlikely that many of the Palestinian population and the international community accepted Al-Sheikh’s explanations, assuming that he was telling the truth.

Israel’s Anti-“Pay for Slay” law was passed in July 2018. The law instructs the state to deduct and freeze the amount of money the PA pays in salaries to imprisoned terrorists and families of "Martyrs" in one year from the tax money Israel collects and transfers to the PA in the following year. Should the PA stop these payments for a full year, the Israeli government would have the option of giving all or part of the frozen money to the PA. The law was first implemented in February 2019, shortly after the murder of Ori Ansbacher, when Israel's Security Cabinet decided to withhold 502,697,000 Israeli shekels (approximately $138 million) from the PA to be deducted in 12 monthly parts. 

In response to the decision, the PA announced that if Israel implemented the law and deducted the funds, the PA would refuse to accept any of the funds. 

(full article online)

PA agrees to take money from Israel, but lies to save face - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even though other parts of his essay claims otherwise, he's pretty much admitting that there was no Palestinian people - either self-identified of externally-recognized - until the 1970s, when the PLO effectively created them. And his description of Palestinian identity before the 1960s does not indicate anything unique or different about them compared to the larger Arab identity of the region. Bu his watered down criteria, Palestinian identity is no more specific than "Delaware identity" would be - a bunch of people who happen to live in a region but share no other unique characteristics.

(full article online)

Palestinian historian who denies Jewish connection to Jerusalem pretty much admits Palestinian identity didn't exist before 1967 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

This could get ugly for Hamas if the more pious moslems affiliated with the ISIS franchise decide that they're going to bring some real Islam to Gaza'istan.


Hamas makes mass arrests in Gaza following killing of 3 policemen said by IS

Hamas has declared a state of emergency and on Wednesday morning began arresting supporters of Islamic State and other Salafist organizations in the Gaza Strip en masse, hours after three policemen were killed in a series of blasts in the coastal enclave, according to Palestinian reports.

An unnamed security source told the BBC that the two explosions that hit police checkpoints near Gaza City on Tuesday evening were the result of suicide bombings carried out by IS and that one of the attackers had previously been detained by Hamas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the wake of the bombings last night in Gaza that killed three policemen, Gaza's Interior Ministry issued an eight point statement that was light on details.

The Interior Ministry, which controls the police, is warning bloggers and reporters not to say anything beyond official statements.

This is an explicit and official threat to press freedom by Hamas.

Not that "human rights activists" will even bother to mention it. After all, their willingness to speak "truth to power" doesn't extend to powers that are actually dangerous.

Sure enough, the "independent" Ma'an and Islamic Jihad'sPalestine Today only reported on what the interior ministry demanded, and nothing else. One needs to go to western sources to find out more details on the bombings, which appear to be suicide bombings by IS.

(full article online)

Gaza's Interior Ministry warns reporters not to do any real reporting ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Egypt is in quite a difficult position as a mediator. Whatever dialogue the Egyptians may have with Hamas means little when the Iranian Mullocrats are dictating terms to the islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports


Why do the Palestinians have to give up violence while Israel gets to keep theirs?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is in quite a difficult position as a mediator. Whatever dialogue the Egyptians may have with Hamas means little when the Iranian Mullocrats are dictating terms to the islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to give up violence while Israel gets to keep theirs?
Click to expand...


Keep what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is in quite a difficult position as a mediator. Whatever dialogue the Egyptians may have with Hamas means little when the Iranian Mullocrats are dictating terms to the islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to give up violence while Israel gets to keep theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep what?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is in quite a difficult position as a mediator. Whatever dialogue the Egyptians may have with Hamas means little when the Iranian Mullocrats are dictating terms to the islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> Egypt Vows to Stop Mediation Efforts If Hamas Continues Rocket Strikes Against Israel - Reports
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians have to give up violence while Israel gets to keep theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep what?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why do the Palestinians have to give up violence while Israel gets to keep theirs?



Ummmm, could it be because Israel is a fully functioning State correctly and responsibly using organized and legal military response to actual threats while Hamas and IS are terror organizations indiscriminately and illegally attacking civilians?


----------



## Hollie

It sure appears that the Egyptians are nearing a point where they may decide to walk away from their role of trying to contain Hamas. 

Ultimately, Hamas has to come to terms with the reality that unlike UNWRA welfare fraud money, Iranian welfare money comes with conditions. The Iranian Mullocrats are not going to fund the Sunni Islamics without the expectation that Shia welfare money is used to attack Israel. 



*Egypt warns Hamas: Stay out of conflict between Israel and Hezbollah*

*Egypt warns Hamas: Stay out of conflict between Israel and Hezbollah
*
Cairo threatens to abandon its mediation efforts between Israel and Gaza if the coastal enclave continues to fire rockets at the Jewish state.


----------



## Hollie

I really find it unconscionable that social media sites such as twitter and Facebook allow their services to be used for explicit promotion of violence and encouraging acts of Islamic terrorism by Hamas and Fatah. 

We will have to wait and see if the German actions are followed by other nations. 
*


GERMAN FEDERAL CRIMINAL POLICE INVESTIGATE HAMAS TWITTER DUE TO PROPAGANDA

German federal criminal police investigate Hamas Twitter for propaganda

“The accounts of Hamas must disappear from Twitter! Twitter supports a terrorist organization by providing infrastructure," said Volker Beck.

German Green Party politician Volker Beck filed a formal police complaint, seeking to remove the jihadist terror organization Hamas from the micro-blogging site Twitter.

“The accounts of the Hamas must disappear from Twitter! Twitter supports a terrorist organization by providing infrastructure. This is punishable in Germany according to §129b StGB,” leading pro-Israel advocate Beck wrote on Twitter on Tuesday.
*


----------



## Hollie

Some more Islamic terrorist behavior modification / early retirement from the gee-had. 




Israel strikes Palestinian base on Lebanon-Syria border, state news claims


Israeli strike on position belonging to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, Lebanon's An-Nahar newspaper reports

The Associated Press, Reuters and Yaniv Kubovich Aug 27, 2019 9:28 AM


----------



## Hollie

It's looking much more likely that the more pious ISIS franchise was responsible for the martyrdom operation in Gaza.

And Allah knows best.



ISIS suspected in terror bombings against ... Hamas?

That’s not all _that _new, as it turns out, although it’s a new sign that ISIS remains a transnational threat. The BBC reported today that Hamas has begun rounding up ISIS sympathizers after two bombings killed three police officers in Gaza. It’s part of an ongoing turf war between Islamist factions that extends far beyond Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

New Zealand is joining a growing list of nations that are suspending funding of contributions to UNRWA amid charges of "misconduct, corruption, links to terror groups, perpetuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and anti-Semitism."

It really is gratifying to see that accountability is being demanded of the Islamic terrorist welfare fraud endowment.  



The government of New Zealand has suspended funding to the United Nations’ aid agency for Palestinians.

The funding for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency is on hold until the release of the October report by the U.N. Office of Internal Oversight Services on allegations against the agency including misconduct, corruption, links to terror groups, perpetuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and anti-Semitism.

New Zealand suspends funding to UN aid agency for Palestinians


“We expect UNRWA to cooperate fully with the investigation under way and to report back on the investigation’s findings and recommendations,” the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade said in a statement. “The Ministry will review the findings of the UN OIOS report once the investigation is complete and, after that point, will provide advice to the Minister of Foreign Affairs on future funding.”

From January to June, New Zealand provided nearly $1.6 million to UNRWA.

Last month, the Netherlands and Switzerland announced the suspension of funding for UNRWA following a damning report alleging corruption at the organization’s highest levels.



_








_


----------



## Sixties Fan

"State of Palestine" and other Muslim UN members PRAISE China for incarcerating millions of Muslims ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud is having a very bad day.


Palestine files complaint with UN over Honduras' opening of diplomatic office in Jerusalem



> RAMALLAH - 29 August 2019: The Palestinian Foreign Ministry decided to file a complaint with the UN over Honduras' decision to open a diplomatic office in Jerusalem.
> 
> The ministry condemned the move, saying it is a flagrant violation of the international law and legitimacy resolutions.
> 
> In a press release, the ministry said such a decision will foil any regional or international effort aiming at achieving peace in the Palestinian territories in accordance with international terms of references and two-state solution.





The Honduran president wasn’t impressed.




> President Juan Orlando Hernández of Honduras announced that he will pay an official visit to Israel Friday to open the country’s diplomatic office in Jerusalem, recognizing the occupied city as Israel’s capital.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> "State of Palestine" and other Muslim UN members PRAISE China for incarcerating millions of Muslims ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



I admittedly have only done the most rudimentary research on this issue.  

That said, I don't even remotely know how to unpack this.  Perhaps that Arab Palestinians are perfectly willing to put Jews in "re-education camps" but not so willing to be placed there themselves.  

IOW, "Re-education camps" good, as long as the "right" people are in them.  

Ugly no matter how you slice it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why are the details about Rina Shnerb's hometown and her age worth mentioning? Because the Palestinian media has again engaged in a campaign of fabrications and lies to justify the terror attack and the murder of an innocent Jewish teenager.


The Palestinian media, however, does not feel comfortable reporting the facts about the terror attack. In the eyes of Palestinian new editors and journalists, Rina was a "settler" and a "soldier." By using such terms, the Palestinians are trying to create the impression that she was not an innocent teenager, but a Jew who lived in a settlement and was even serving in the IDF.


Finally, it is important to note that many Palestinian media outlets and officials continue to refer to Israel as "occupied Palestine." They see zero difference between a Jew living in the West Bank and a Jew living inside Israel. For them, all Jews are settlers and colonizers, and all cities inside Israel -- Tel Aviv, Haifa, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Eilat, as well as Lod, the hometown of Rina -- are "occupied." In the eyes of Palestinians, in fact all of Israel is "occupied" and a "settlement."


When Palestinian terrorists fired three rockets at Sderot on August 25, Palestinian media outlets reported that Sderot is a "settlement." In case anyone had doubts, Sderot is an Israeli city in the Negev Desert, not a "settlement." By using the term "settlement," the Palestinians are again trying to create the impression that a city it is a legitimate target for rocket attacks because it is an "illegal settlement."


(full article online)

Palestinians: Why Allow Facts to Get in the Way?


----------



## Hollie

I'm afraid that Mahmoud is reaffirming his image as a cartoon character.
*

Abbas: Palestinians are spreading peace
*
Abbas: Palestinians are spreading peace

"The Palestinian Authority continues to build national institutions, spread the culture of peace and fight terrorism in the region and around the world," claimed the PA chairman.


----------



## Hollie

The competing islamic terrorist mini-caliphates are haggling a bit over which is embracing true "islamic values". Yes, wholesome islamic values to include suicide bombing, gee-had, mass murder, forcing women into Shame Sacks,  etc.

It's a wonder to behold. 




*PA: Hamas is causing the problems in Gaza*
Fatah blasts Hamas, claims it is "corrupting Islamic values."

PA: Hamas is causing the problems in Gaza


The Fatah movement, headed by Palestinian Authority (PA) chairman Mahmoud Abbas, on Wednesday rejected Hamas' accusations that the PA’s intelligence apparatus is behind the explosions in Gaza that killed three policemen on Tuesday night.


----------



## Hollie

Breeding the next generation of mentally defective children who will grow up to be mentally defective adults.

Palestinian children dress as terrorists and put on a play about attacking Israelis - complete with weapons, a drone and body cameras - as proud parents watch at graduation ceremony.

Palestinian children dress as terrorists and put on a play about attacking Israelis | Daily Mail Online


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Why are the details about Rina Shnerb's hometown and her age worth mentioning? Because the Palestinian media has again engaged in a campaign of fabrications and lies to justify the terror attack and the murder of an innocent Jewish teenager.
> 
> 
> The Palestinian media, however, does not feel comfortable reporting the facts about the terror attack. In the eyes of Palestinian new editors and journalists, Rina was a "settler" and a "soldier." By using such terms, the Palestinians are trying to create the impression that she was not an innocent teenager, but a Jew who lived in a settlement and was even serving in the IDF.
> 
> 
> Finally, it is important to note that many Palestinian media outlets and officials continue to refer to Israel as "occupied Palestine." They see zero difference between a Jew living in the West Bank and a Jew living inside Israel. For them, all Jews are settlers and colonizers, and all cities inside Israel -- Tel Aviv, Haifa, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Eilat, as well as Lod, the hometown of Rina -- are "occupied." In the eyes of Palestinians, in fact all of Israel is "occupied" and a "settlement."
> 
> 
> When Palestinian terrorists fired three rockets at Sderot on August 25, Palestinian media outlets reported that Sderot is a "settlement." In case anyone had doubts, Sderot is an Israeli city in the Negev Desert, not a "settlement." By using the term "settlement," the Palestinians are again trying to create the impression that a city it is a legitimate target for rocket attacks because it is an "illegal settlement."
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: Why Allow Facts to Get in the Way?





Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian media outlets reported that Sderot is a "settlement." In case anyone had doubts, Sderot is an Israeli city in the Negev Desert, not a "settlement."


I have heard this Israeli talking point a gazillion times but nobody has ever posted any evidence that this is true.


----------



## Hollie

With ISIS coming to cleanse Pal’istan of the Hamas apostates, it was only a matter of time before bright orange flashes of light, loud explosions and red hot shrapnel flying through the air at supersonic speeds would happen. 

Hamas has participated in elections. This is intrinsic to the sin that is absolute anathema in Islam: _shirk_. It can mean polytheism, but effectively it means equating anything to God, or allowing anything to supercede God's law, which was given to Moslems in divine, unalterable perfection. Democracy falls under this rubric, by the way, since it elevates man to a position of making law, rather than following God's law on Earth (_Khilafah_, a _Pax Islamica_ as it were). Democracy is Islam's greatest threat since it puts into man's hands the power that is reserved for God alone. 

I've often wondered if Muhammad was afflicted with some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder in light of the fanatic zeal with which he pontificated regarding all the facets and minutiae of ones life, and how they were to be cast in the favorable light of the revealed word of God.

Hamas and ISIS hate Israel - and each other - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

ISIS, which stands for Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, belongs to the Salafist branch within Islam that wants to re-create the Islamic caliphate and impose Sharia law throughout the region. ISIS views Hamas and its supporters as “apostates.”

That is, in part, because Hamas participated in Palestinian democratic elections in the West Bank and Gaza, and worked to improve relations with Egypt, with which ISIS has been at war since at least 2013.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Associate the Palestinian flag with what it really stands for ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Sderot was formed in 1951, after the Armistice Arrangements.  It was never an incorporated city of the State of Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> I have heard this Israeli talking point a gazillion times but nobody has ever posted any evidence that this is true.


*(COMMENT)*



 ​
•  What kind of "proof" are you looking for?
•  Why would you even question that?​
I must be missing something here.


........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

*To European Leaders, Jewish Flesh Is Cheap.*
*by Guy Millière
August 30, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*To European Leaders, Jewish Flesh Is Cheap*


The Oslo Accords were based on the illusion that the PLO could totally change and suddenly become a "partner for peace"... It soon became clear that the Palestinian Authority was still the PLO: terrorist attacks quickly multiplied. The money received by the Palestinian Authority was used to continue incitement to murder and payments to incentivize it.


In 1967, a change of strategy took place. No one, the PLO decided, would speak of a "war for the destruction of Israel". Instead, they would call it a "war of national liberation". From then on, the PLO was presented as a "liberation movement".


Arabs who had left Israel in 1948-49, many of whom remained in refugee camps, were defined as the "Palestinian people"; in this way were the Palestinian people invented. As PLO Executive Council member Zuheir Mohsen said in 1977: "The Palestinian people does not exist... Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people..."


The leaders of the Palestinian Authority have, in fact, never stopped resorting to "armed struggle", the name they give to terrorism and murdering Jews. To "frustrate all the schemes of Zionism", they invented the Palestinian people; their "struggle for national liberation" gave them international recognition. By renaming terrorism and murdering Jews "armed struggle", they made their use of terrorism and murder acceptable. By signing the Oslo Accords, they could appear interested in peace without having to renounce terrorism. They could even demonize Israel and give it the image of a barbaric and cruel country while continuing to murder Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sderot was formed in 1951, after the Armistice Arrangements.  It was never an incorporated city of the State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard this Israeli talking point a gazillion times but nobody has ever posted any evidence that this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> View attachment 276781​
> •  What kind of "proof" are you looking for?
> •  Why would you even question that?​
> I must be missing something here.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 276780
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are confused due to a lifetime of Israeli bullshit.

Look at the line around Gaza, It is an armistice line that is specifically not a political or territorial boundary. So whose land is whose land?

Please provide proof.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sderot was formed in 1951, after the Armistice Arrangements.  It was never an incorporated city of the State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard this Israeli talking point a gazillion times but nobody has ever posted any evidence that this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> View attachment 276781​
> •  What kind of "proof" are you looking for?
> •  Why would you even question that?​
> I must be missing something here.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 276780
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confused due to a lifetime of Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Look at the line around Gaza, It is an armistice line that is specifically not a political or territorial boundary. So whose land is whose land?
> 
> Please provide proof.
Click to expand...


You should march right up to that Israeli border you insist doesn’t exist and make your case.

Please provide proof.


----------



## Hollie

Prior to the change in status of the Hamas guards in Gaza, (breathing to, how shall we say, “unable to fog a mirror”), there were obvious indications that the local ISIS affiliate was going to bring some Peaceful Inner Struggling (of the high explosive kind), to the Hamas apostates.  








On video, Gaza-based jihadi group accuses Hamas of apostasy, praises ISIS

*On video, Gaza-based jihadi group accuses Hamas of apostasy, praises ISIS*

August 19, 2019 / JNS) The Gaza-based jihadi group Jaysh Al-Islam shared a video on Telegram that attacks the Muslim Brotherhood and its offshoot Hamas, accusing the groups of apostasy, according to a report by the Middle East Media Research Institute shared exclusively with JNS.

The 28-minute video accuses the groups of adopting Western attitudes and allying with “unbelievers” such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, but praised the Islamic State for implementing Sharia law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sderot was formed in 1951, after the Armistice Arrangements.  It was never an incorporated city of the State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard this Israeli talking point a gazillion times but nobody has ever posted any evidence that this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> View attachment 276781​
> •  What kind of "proof" are you looking for?
> •  Why would you even question that?​
> I must be missing something here.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 276780
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confused due to a lifetime of Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Look at the line around Gaza, It is an armistice line that is specifically not a political or territorial boundary. So whose land is whose land?
> 
> Please provide proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should march right up to that Israeli border you insist doesn’t exist and make your case.
> 
> Please provide proof.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sderot was formed in 1951, after the Armistice Arrangements.  It was never an incorporated city of the State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard this Israeli talking point a gazillion times but nobody has ever posted any evidence that this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> View attachment 276781​
> •  What kind of "proof" are you looking for?
> •  Why would you even question that?​
> I must be missing something here.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 276780
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confused due to a lifetime of Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Look at the line around Gaza, It is an armistice line that is specifically not a political or territorial boundary. So whose land is whose land?
> 
> Please provide proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should march right up to that Israeli border you insist doesn’t exist and make your case.
> 
> Please provide proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Look at the line around Gaza, It is an armistice line that is specifically not a political or territorial boundary. So whose land is whose land?
> 
> Please provide proof.



Oh please, this isn't hard.  On one side of the line is sovereign Israel.  On the other side of the line is territory abandoned by Israel.  Since the territory was not ceded to another State, and since the government operating in that territory is not a State, and since there is no longer a Mandate State overseeing the territory, it can only be terra nullius.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I beg to differ.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are confused due to a lifetime of Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Look at the line around Gaza, It is an armistice line that is specifically not a political or territorial boundary. So whose land is whose land?
> 
> Please provide proof.


*(COMMENT)*

While the Armistice Lines dissolved, it does not preclude the Israelis adjusting their demarcation line to follow all, or some or none of the former Armistice Line as an International Boundary.

It is important to note that the boundaries of nations have nothing to do with what you think it should (or should not) be; but, rather what is mutually agreed upon by the "states involved."  There was no Arab Palestinian State to have a border with until 1988.  By that time the borders were already formed.

.........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Hopeless Gaza Strip ripe for Islamic State, says UN head

"A scenario where extremist elements that are linked to Isis gain more ground is completely possible and realistic," Matthias Schmale, who leads the UN office for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), told reporters in his Gaza Strip office last week.



Wow. That’s some truly inspiring insight there. Maybe go out on a limb and suggest that Islamic psychopaths might be a problem.


----------



## Rigby5

Armistice lines only have value if the UN says so.
But Palestine predates the UN.
The Treaty of Sevres established Palestine and pledged Gt. Britain to ensure Palestine succeeded in being independent.
That treaty precludes any possibility of Israel existing, as there was to be a Jewish homeland INSIDE of an independent Moslem Palestine.

It is also clear that Israel has lost any viable right to exist by continually committing war crimes, like failing to honor the right of return to the Moslems who fled the 1949 war.
Collective retribution is also an illegal war crime.
The continued confiscations of land for new Jewish settlements is also a war crime.
Etc.


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> Armistice lines only have value if the UN says so.
> But Palestine predates the UN.
> The Treaty of Sevres established Palestine and pledged Gt. Britain to ensure Palestine succeeded in being independent.
> That treaty precludes any possibility of Israel existing, as there was to be a Jewish homeland INSIDE of an independent Moslem Palestine.
> 
> It is also clear that Israel has lost any viable right to exist by continually committing war crimes, like failing to honor the right of return to the Moslems who fled the 1949 war.
> Collective retribution is also an illegal war crime.
> The continued confiscations of land for new Jewish settlements is also a war crime.
> Etc.



None of this is true.  Oh where to start.....sigh.

The 1949 Armistice lines only exist because of a "pause-in-fighting" treaty between Israel and Jordan.  They demarcate the extent of military control of territory by each of the two sides at a certain point in the armed conflict between them.  The Armistice is the agreement that neither Israel nor Jordan will attempt military control on the other side of the line.  When Israel and Jordan signed a Peace Treaty, it dissolved the Armistice lines by reason that there was no longer a war or conflict as Jordan abandoned all claims.   

The Mandate for Palestine calls for the development of self-governing institutions for the Jewish people, clearly supporting the idea of self-determination for the Jewish people as sovereigns. 

States either exist or they do not exist.  There is no provision in international law for a State to "lose the right to exist".


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Rigby5, et al,

May I offer an opposing view.  I would point out that the Treaty of Sevres never went into force having been rejected by the new government of MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK (1881-1938).   But had it gone into effect, the Treaty did not preclude any division or reapportionment.



			
				Treaty of Sevres • Part 3 • 1920 said:
			
		

> *SECTION XIII.
> •  GENERAL PROVISIONS  •
> ARTICLE 132*.
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby *renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title* which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> Turkey undertakes to *recognize and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers*, in an agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.



The treaty did promise a new country for the Kurds, which never came to pass because the Treaty was never accepted.  Hence, one of the reasons for the Treaty of Lausanne.



Rigby5 said:


> Armistice lines only have value if the UN says so.
> But Palestine predates the UN.
> The Treaty of Sevres established Palestine and pledged Gt. Britain to ensure Palestine succeeded in being independent.
> That treaty precludes any possibility of Israel existing, as there was to be a Jewish homeland INSIDE of an independent Moslem Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

No this is not correct.  In fact:



			
				Treaty of Sevres • Part 3 • 1920 said:
			
		

> *SECTION XIII.
> GENERAL PROVISIONS.
> ARTICLE 136(3)*
> 
> The Principal Allied Powers reserve the right to agree among themselves, and if necessary with the other Allied or neutral Powers concerned, as to the date on which the new system is to come into force.



Again, none of this is applicable, since it did not go into force.  Although much of these same concepts are to be found in the Treaty of Lausanne.



Rigby5 said:


> It is also clear that Israel has lost any viable right to exist by continually committing war crimes, like failing to honor the right of return to the Moslems who fled the 1949 war.
> Collective retribution is also an illegal war crime.
> The continued confiscations of land for new Jewish settlements is also a war crime.
> Etc.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, given the fact that the Arab Palestinians did, under the observation of the International Community, agree to the conditions:

◈  Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority)

◈  Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control)

◈  Area C (full Israeli civil and security control)​
All the current settlements under complaint fall withing Area "C" which is under full Israeli civil and security controls - as agreed upon by the Arab Palestinians.  It is understood that these "Permanent Status Negotiations" shall cover remaining issues, including_* Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation*_ with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.

IF*! * Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Declaration of Principles. or any subsequent agreements pertaining to the interim period shall be resolved by negotiations through the Joint Liaison Committee to be established pursuant to Article X above.

The Arab Palestinians have not once _(I say again NOT Once)_ invoked the Dispute Resolution Protocols.  Not once. 

In January 1948, the Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.  This makes the return of any Arab Palestinians an unacceptable internal security risk.  There is no international requirement for Israel to accept an internal security risk that threatened the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any Israel.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice lines only have value if the UN says so.
> But Palestine predates the UN.
> The Treaty of Sevres established Palestine and pledged Gt. Britain to ensure Palestine succeeded in being independent.
> That treaty precludes any possibility of Israel existing, as there was to be a Jewish homeland INSIDE of an independent Moslem Palestine.
> 
> It is also clear that Israel has lost any viable right to exist by continually committing war crimes, like failing to honor the right of return to the Moslems who fled the 1949 war.
> Collective retribution is also an illegal war crime.
> The continued confiscations of land for new Jewish settlements is also a war crime.
> Etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of this is true.  Oh where to start.....sigh.
> 
> The 1949 Armistice lines only exist because of a "pause-in-fighting" treaty between Israel and Jordan.  They demarcate the extent of military control of territory by each of the two sides at a certain point in the armed conflict between them.  The Armistice is the agreement that neither Israel nor Jordan will attempt military control on the other side of the line.  When Israel and Jordan signed a Peace Treaty, it dissolved the Armistice lines by reason that there was no longer a war or conflict as Jordan abandoned all claims.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine calls for the development of self-governing institutions for the Jewish people, clearly supporting the idea of self-determination for the Jewish people as sovereigns.
> 
> States either exist or they do not exist.  There is no provision in international law for a State to "lose the right to exist".
Click to expand...


Totally wrong.
The British Mandate for Palestine was for Jews to have a homeland inside of an Arab Moslem Palestine, but play no role in government at all.
Read the Churchill Whitepaper of 1922, that explains the confusion in great detail.
The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
{...
The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.

Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab delegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the up building of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.

Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
...}

This should be obvious without even being told, because there obviously is no legal way the British could have given Palestine to the immigrant European Jews even if they wanted to.  The vast majority has always been native Arab Muslims.  The UN totally screwed up by giving 55% of Palestine to the 30% Jewish immigrant population.
It was illegal and immoral to start with, and made even worse by Jews not allowing the refugees who fled the violence, to return to their own homes in 1949.


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> This should be obvious without even being told, because there obviously is no legal way the British could have given Palestine to the immigrant European Jews even if they wanted to.  The vast majority has always been native Arab Muslims.  The UN totally screwed up by giving 55% of Palestine to the 30% Jewish immigrant population.
> It was illegal and immoral to start with, and made even worse by Jews not allowing the refugees who fled the violence, to return to their own homes in 1949.



Of course the British did not "give" territory to the Jewish people.  The Jewish people -- by way of rights to self-determination in reconstituting their nation -- developed self-governing institutions and declared independence.  Nothing "illegal" about it.  Its the same way all new States come into being post WWII.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Rigby5,  et al,

Remember:  "The Mandate for Palestine was assigned to the United Kingdom by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo" (1920).  It was imposed on themselves _(the community of the Allied Powers)_ and not some extraordinary Arab or Jewish influence.  

SO_!_  One thing in these discussions, no matter how deep in the grass we get, the principal objective in 1922 was that:

*~→*  the Allied Powers agreed *→* as a body unto themselves *→ *to entrust to British _(selected by the said Powers)_ the administration of the territory of Palestine, _(within such boundaries as may be fixed by them, yet not yet fully established)_.  And the Allied Powers that agreed that the responsibility for putting into effect the Balfour Declaration (1917) that was adopted by the said Allied Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish National Home (JNH).​
And the Mandate (1922) was a creation of the Allied Powers and could be modified by the Allied Powers at their discretion.  The Mandate was not a suicide pact that in total disregard for the events of time, must be strictly adhered to _(as some sort of politically compliance-oriented directive)_, or to be a record of intent subject to the interpretation by the Arab Palestinians.  The Mandate was, in effect, guidance to be interpreted by the British Government and for the British Government with the advice and consent of the Allied Powers and Council of the League of Nations.



Rigby5 said:


> Totally wrong.
> The British Mandate for Palestine was for Jews to have a homeland inside of an Arab Moslem Palestine, but play no role in government at all.
> Read the Churchill Whitepaper of 1922, that explains the confusion in great detail.
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922


https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/brwh1922.asp
*(COMMENT)*

The "British Policy in Palestine," as expressed by Sir Winston Churchill _(as Secretary of State for the Colonies)_ in June 1922 (AKA:  The British White Paper of 1922) was an attempt at clarification and yet, kneejerk response to the Arab Jaffa Riots (1921).  The British Policy on Palestine was subject to the interpretation of the day.



			
				EXCERPT • British Policy in a White Paper • 1922 said:
			
		

> When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home (JNH) in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a center in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride.



Many British Policy Statements and emphasis was changed or modified over time (1922-1948), but this aspect was never altered.  



Rigby5 said:


> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favoring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November 1917.


*(COMMENT)*

No matter the reasoning, in the end, "exaggerated interpretations applied to the meaning of the Balfour Declaration" were unhelpful.  But again, what the Allied Powers did or allowed was an authority issued unto themselves. _ (A *"do what you will"* policy.)_



Rigby5 said:


> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English."


*(COMMENT)*

This is a quote from the "Political History of Palestine under British Administration" (1947), often given too much emphasis when applied to the context of today's politics → some 70 years later.



EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:


> ...  In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the up building of which may *assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development*."


*(COMMENT)*

This is one of those Eureka Moments; an epiphany of sorts:  "Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect."

One can only ask, how did international politics turn this upside-down.  But while that Arab Palestinians only ranks 119 out of 189 ---- Israel Ranks 22.  So, the goal _(*assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development*)_ was not an entire bust...   SO, while the policy followed by the Arab Palestinians for 70 years _(__solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition)_ did not work out well for them, the Israeli policies have taken the Jewish Community to the very top of the Region in terms of the goal:  national and human development.



EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:


> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.


*(COMMENT)*

You have the advantage on me.  I have absolutely no insight into what the Palestine Zionist Executive wants, needs or strives to achieve.



EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:


> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine is concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded and that that Declaration, reaffirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.


*(COMMENT)*

Whatever you want the meaning of the actions to mean in 1917 or 1922, the actual interpretation, the implementation, the applications of changes, etc have brought us forward to today.  There is no "instant replay" and you cannot simply throw a flag on the play and penalize the parties to a setback of 70 years.



EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:


> This should be obvious without even being told, because there obviously is no legal way the British could have given Palestine to the immigrant European Jews even if they wanted to.  The vast majority has always been native Arab Muslims.  The UN totally screwed up by giving 55% of Palestine to the 30% Jewish immigrant population.
> It was illegal and immoral to start with, and made even worse by Jews not allowing the refugees who fled the violence, to return to their own homes in 1949.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you are making a determination on the "legality" of the actions of the "Allied Powers" in 1922 right through to the 1948 withdrawal of the British and the announcement of independence through sheer "self-determination" and against all odds.  You cannot mix your modified historical facts on which the Allied Powers made certain decisions → of the Actions of the United Nations, and the role that "self-determination" played in the developments we contend with today. 

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Rigby5,  et al,
> 
> Remember:  "The Mandate for Palestine was assigned to the United Kingdom by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo" (1920).  It was imposed on themselves _(the community of the Allied Powers)_ and not some extraordinary Arab or Jewish influence.
> 
> SO_!_ One thing in these discussions, no matter how deep in the grass we get, the principal objective in 1922 was that:
> 
> *~→*  the Allied Powers agreed *→* as a body unto themselves *→ *to entrust to British _(selected by the said Powers)_ the administration of the territory of Palestine, _(within such boundaries as may be fixed by them, yet not yet fully established)_.  And the Allied Powers that agreed that the responsibility for putting into effect the Balfour Declaration (1917) that was adopted by the said Allied Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish National Home (JNH).​
> And the Mandate (1922) was a creation of the Allied Powers and could be modified by the Allied Powers at their discretion.  The Mandate was not a suicide pact that in total disregard for the events of time, must be strictly adhered to _(as some sort of politically compliance-oriented directive)_, or to be a record of intent subject to the interpretation by the Arab Palestinians.  The Mandate was, in effect, guidance to be interpreted by the British Government and for the British Government with the advice and consent of the Allied Powers and Council of the League of Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> The British Mandate for Palestine was for Jews to have a homeland inside of an Arab Moslem Palestine, but play no role in government at all.
> Read the Churchill Whitepaper of 1922, that explains the confusion in great detail.
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "British Policy in Palestine," as expressed by Sir Winston Churchill _(as Secretary of State for the Colonies)_ in June 1922 (AKA:  The British White Paper of 1922) was an attempt at clarification and yet, kneejerk response to the Arab Jaffa Riots (1921).  The British Policy on Palestine was subject to the interpretation of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • British Policy in a White Paper • 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home (JNH) in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a center in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many British Policy Statements and emphasis was changed or modified over time (1922-1948), but this aspect was never altered.
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favoring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November 1917.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter the reasoning, in the end, "exaggerated interpretations applied to the meaning of the Balfour Declaration" were unhelpful.  But again, what the Allied Powers did or allowed was an authority issued unto themselves. _ (A *"do what you will"* policy.)_
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a quote from the "Political History of Palestine under British Administration" (1947), often given too much emphasis when applied to the context of today's politics → some 70 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the up building of which may *assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development*."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is one of those Eureka Moments; an epiphany of sorts:  "Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect."
> 
> One can only ask, how did international politics turn this upside-down.  But while that Arab Palestinians only ranks 119 out of 189 ---- Israel Ranks 22.  So, the goal _(*assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development*)_ was not an entire bust...   SO, while the policy followed by the Arab Palestinians for 70 years _(solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition)_ did not work out well for them, the Israeli policies have taken the Jewish Community to the very top of the Region in terms of the goal:  national and human development.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You have the advantage on me.  I have absolutely no insight into what the Palestine Zionist Executive wants, needs or strives to achieve.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine is concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded and that that Declaration, reaffirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whatever you want the meaning of the actions to mean in 1917 or 1922, the actual interpretation, the implementation, the applications of changes, etc have brought us forward to today.  There is no "instant replay" and you cannot simply throw a flag on the play and penalize the parties to a setback of 70 years.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This should be obvious without even being told, because there obviously is no legal way the British could have given Palestine to the immigrant European Jews even if they wanted to.  The vast majority has always been native Arab Muslims.  The UN totally screwed up by giving 55% of Palestine to the 30% Jewish immigrant population.
> It was illegal and immoral to start with, and made even worse by Jews not allowing the refugees who fled the violence, to return to their own homes in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, you are making a determination on the "legality" of the actions of the "Allied Powers" in 1922 right through to the 1948 withdrawal of the British and the announcement of independence through sheer "self-determination" and against all odds.  You cannot mix your modified historical facts on which the Allied Powers made certain decisions → of the Actions of the United Nations, and the role that "self-determination" played in the developments we contend with today.
> 
> ........View attachment 276907
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

One term was used in the Balfour Declaration, many times since, and is true today, and that is "in Palestine."

The Palestinians were/are expected to leave where they have lived for hundreds even thousands of years and hand the keys over to foreign settlers.

The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

The unincorporated name of the territory was "Palestine" with no specific boundaries.  



P F Tinmore said:


> One term was used in the Balfour Declaration, many times since, and is true today, and that is "in Palestine."
> 
> The Palestinians were/are expected to leave where they have lived for hundreds even thousands of years and hand the keys over to foreign settlers.
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.


*(COMMENT)*



			
				The Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922 said:
			
		

> ...............................................*PART I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........................................PRELIMINARY.*
> Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies,* hereinafter described as Palestine.*



Prior to The Great War (AKA:  *WWI*) the region now under the control and that of sovereignty were parts of the Ottoman Sanjaks of Beirut, Acre, Balqa, all three within the Vilayet of Beirut; plus - the Independent Sanjak of Jerusalem.

After the surrender and the Armistice of Mudros (1918), the same territory was designated under the control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  After the Conference of San Remo _(June 1920)_ the territory transferred to the Civil Administration as agreed to by the Allied Powers.

In June 1920, the same territory became known as "Palestine" which was formalized by the Order in Council.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The unincorporated name of the territory was "Palestine" with no specific boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One term was used in the Balfour Declaration, many times since, and is true today, and that is "in Palestine."
> 
> The Palestinians were/are expected to leave where they have lived for hundreds even thousands of years and hand the keys over to foreign settlers.
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...............................................*PART I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........................................PRELIMINARY.*
> Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies,* hereinafter described as Palestine.*
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prior to The Great War (AKA:  *WWI*) the region now under the control and that of sovereignty were parts of the Ottoman Sanjaks of Beirut, Acre, Balqa, all three within the Vilayet of Beirut; plus - the Independent Sanjak of Jerusalem.
> 
> After the surrender and the Armistice of Mudros (1918), the same territory was designated under the control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  After the Conference of San Remo _(June 1920)_ the territory transferred to the Civil Administration as agreed to by the Allied Powers.
> 
> In June 1920, the same territory became known as "Palestine" which was formalized by the Order in Council.
> 
> ........View attachment 276930
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, so?

What does that have to do with my post?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.



Interesting concept. 

From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?  

Be specific.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
Click to expand...

The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Mindful

A Palestinian human rights advocate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

What kind of hospital allows a family to mercilessly beat a patient under the excuse of doing an "exorcism"?

And what kind of hospital would release her afterwards after seeing her family treat her this way?

The good news is that this story is all over Arabic social media since Friday, and in regular Arab news media as well. Years of feminists in the Arab world and coverage by Western media of "honor" crimes has shamed most Arabs into accepting that the old way of treating women is unacceptable and the outrage is a sign that things can change in the Arab world - but it requires the West to shame the Arabs into doing something to change.

The bad news is that there is still a long way to go. This interview with Palestinian human rights activist Dr. Omar Rahhal from late 2018 describes the issue:

(full article online)

A horrific Palestinian honor killing, the reaction in Arab social media and the larger problem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

He's said this before, also in context of a political campaign. No timeframe or details are given.


Saeb Erekat's response is classic, though:

 Erekat considered that Netanyahu's public statement of annexation of all settlements on the West Bank posed not only a threat to the Palestinian people but a threat to the entire international system. And it would open the horizons in alliance with the Trump administration to completely overthrow the international system and create a system of power and hegemony.


Locusts and pestilence can't be far behind.

(full article online)

PLO's @ErakatSaeb says Israel applying sovereignty to settlements will be the end of the world as we know it. (I feel fine.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

What a crock.  A  (human) "right" is NOT tied to a place of origin or a people of a certain heritage.   The "right of self-determination" wherein an "idea" of man becomes a common idea of a collective (population) has no territorial limiting factor.  The people of America, Germany, and those people of the Middle East, all have the "right to self-determination;" that is the actualization of an idea.  All people everywhere (the expression of self) have the right to actualize their idea (the expression of determination).



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The concept of "self-determination" is more often than not, applied to the political policy of allowing people to move from the status of being "non-self-governing" to that of "self-governing."  More often then not, in politics, the application of actualizing "self-determination" is destructive in nature _(even lethal)_.  The execution of Charles I _(England)_, the execution of King Louis XVI _(indeed much of the French aristocracy)_, the execution of Tsar Nicholas II _(indeed the Imperial Romanov family)_, the execution of King Faisal II _(including the Royal Family members)_, and so on.  These are all examples of the population exercising their "right of self-determination" by altering one form of government for another.

There is nothing unique about the transition of power through the "right of self-determination" in the Middle East.  The mantra of the "right to self-determination" and their claim to legitimize the use of terrorism _(by all means necessary → the ends justify the means)_ is just as blood-thirsty as any of the other transition in government I have mentioned.  One needs to examine idea held by the Arab Palestinians _(remembering Black September and the attempt to overthrow the King)_ is not all that different from the capture and murder of leaders _(and their families given the opportunity)_. 

The question of legal and moral rights to accept or reject deterministic courses of action are people-based decisions.  And it is often helped along by psychopathic personalities looking for wealth and power.  It is why, even today, the Arab Palestinian People have been unable to transition their government after elections more than a decade ago.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What a crock.  A  (human) "right" is NOT tied to a place of origin or a people of a certain heritage.   The "right of self-determination" wherein an "idea" of man becomes a common idea of a collective (population) has no territorial limiting factor.  The people of America, Germany, and those people of the Middle East, all have the "right to self-determination;" that is the actualization of an idea.  All people everywhere (the expression of self) have the right to actualize their idea (the expression of determination).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The concept of "self-determination" is more often than not, applied to the political policy of allowing people to move from the status of being "non-self-governing" to that of "self-governing."  More often then not, in politics, the application of actualizing "self-determination" is destructive in nature _(even lethal)_.  The execution of Charles I _(England)_, the execution of King Louis XVI _(indeed much of the French aristocracy)_, the execution of Tsar Nicholas II _(indeed the Imperial Romanov family)_, the execution of King Faisal II _(including the Royal Family members)_, and so on.  These are all examples of the population exercising their "right of self-determination" by altering one form of government for another.
> 
> There is nothing unique about the transition of power through the "right of self-determination" in the Middle East.  The mantra of the "right to self-determination" and their claim to legitimize the use of terrorism _(by all means necessary → the ends justify the means)_ is just as blood-thirsty as any of the other transition in government I have mentioned.  One needs to examine idea held by the Arab Palestinians _(remembering Black September and the attempt to overthrow the King)_ is not all that different from the capture and murder of leaders _(and their families given the opportunity)_.
> 
> The question of legal and moral rights to accept or reject deterministic courses of action are people-based decisions.  And it is often helped along by psychopathic personalities looking for wealth and power.  It is why, even today, the Arab Palestinian People have been unable to transition their government after elections more than a decade ago.
> 
> ........View attachment 276938
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So if the Mexicans in the US got the world on their side they could claim self determination in the US?

Yes? No?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I invite you to look at the example.  But I am not surprised that you jump right to a confrontational question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*  One needs to examine idea held by the Arab Palestinians _(remembering Black September and the attempt to overthrow the King)_ is not all that different from the capture and murder of leaders _(and their families given the opportunity)_.
> 
> 
> 
> So if the Mexicans in the US got the world on their side they could claim self determination in the US?
> 
> Yes? No?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is a very rare nation in the world that does not have laws pertaining to treason. 

If the Latino population, with the support of other Americans, overthrew the government in Washington, that would be an example of a successful demonstration of self-determination.  Latinos being an ethnic element of the American population.

Your question, Mexican + World is an example of sedition, treason, and attack on America.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality of Islamic psychopaths, it’s not surprising that Hamas would display classic patterns of behaviors associated with such mental illness.  
*


Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza*
Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza

Islamic extremists carried out suicide bombings in Gaza City. Hamas claims they 'sold their souls' to Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Sooo, they just can’t decide.


https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/

Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> Sooo, they just can’t decide.
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/
> 
> Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.


The families are saying, "That sucks!  If only they had been killed by Israel they would be called martyrs to the cause and we would have been paid more money by the PA than we had ever seen before."

The lesson the Palestinians will draw from this incident is that they should hurry up and be killed by Israel before one of their brother Palestinians does them in.


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This should be obvious without even being told, because there obviously is no legal way the British could have given Palestine to the immigrant European Jews even if they wanted to.  The vast majority has always been native Arab Muslims.  The UN totally screwed up by giving 55% of Palestine to the 30% Jewish immigrant population.
> It was illegal and immoral to start with, and made even worse by Jews not allowing the refugees who fled the violence, to return to their own homes in 1949.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the British did not "give" territory to the Jewish people.  The Jewish people -- by way of rights to self-determination in reconstituting their nation -- developed self-governing institutions and declared independence.  Nothing "illegal" about it.  Its the same way all new States come into being post WWII.
Click to expand...


That is silly, because if you examine the census data before 1890, you find the Jewish population of Palestine was about 1% Jewish only.
After the Roman Disapora decree, and the Crusades, essentially there were no Jews living in the Land of Canaan.
Almost all the Jews now living in Israel, are descendants of illegal immigrants who sneaked into the country after 1930, and have absolutely no land ownership rights at all.
Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia





Jews have no legal ownership of hardly any land in Israel or Palestine, and are illegally occupying it by force, murder, and extortion.


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?
> 
> Be specific.
Click to expand...


The right of self determination comes from being native, indigenous, and purchasing and improving land.
That applies to native Arab Moslem Palestinians, but not illegal Jewish European immigrants.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooo, they just can’t decide.
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/
> 
> Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.
> 
> 
> 
> The families are saying, "That sucks!  If only they had been killed by Israel they would be called martyrs to the cause and we would have been paid more money by the PA than we had ever seen before."
> 
> The lesson the Palestinians will draw from this incident is that they should hurry up and be killed by Israel before one of their brother Palestinians does them in.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
The bombing in Gaza were carried out by Iraqi members of ISIS, and not Palestinians.


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> What kind of hospital allows a family to mercilessly beat a patient under the excuse of doing an "exorcism"?
> 
> And what kind of hospital would release her afterwards after seeing her family treat her this way?
> 
> The good news is that this story is all over Arabic social media since Friday, and in regular Arab news media as well. Years of feminists in the Arab world and coverage by Western media of "honor" crimes has shamed most Arabs into accepting that the old way of treating women is unacceptable and the outrage is a sign that things can change in the Arab world - but it requires the West to shame the Arabs into doing something to change.
> 
> The bad news is that there is still a long way to go. This interview with Palestinian human rights activist Dr. Omar Rahhal from late 2018 describes the issue:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> A horrific Palestinian honor killing, the reaction in Arab social media and the larger problem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



And how is this relevant to anything?
Sure I dislike the old traditions where women do not have equal rights, but Islam is better than Judaism at women's rights.
Islam is Judaism only with reformations to acknowledge that women has souls, can inherit, divorce, etc.
Women have no rights in the Jewish Old Testament.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> In the alternate reality of Islamic psychopaths, it’s not surprising that Hamas would display classic patterns of behaviors associated with such mental illness.
> *
> 
> 
> Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza*
> Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza
> 
> Islamic extremists carried out suicide bombings in Gaza City. Hamas claims they 'sold their souls' to Israel.



It is quite possible that Israel is behind the ISIS attacks because ISIS has no cleric backing.
It appears ISIS is a fake organization, possibly started by the US.


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> Jews have no legal ownership of hardly any land in Israel or Palestine,



Sigh.  Again.

Private land ownership has nothing to do with sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the alternate reality of Islamic psychopaths, it’s not surprising that Hamas would display classic patterns of behaviors associated with such mental illness.
> *
> 
> 
> Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza*
> Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza
> 
> Islamic extremists carried out suicide bombings in Gaza City. Hamas claims they 'sold their souls' to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is quite possible that Israel is behind the ISIS attacks because ISIS has no cleric backing.
> It appears ISIS is a fake organization, possibly started by the US.
Click to expand...


What do you think is served by these silly conspiracy theories?


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> After the Roman Disapora decree, and the Crusades, essentially there were no Jews living in the Land of Canaan.



Yes.  The Jewish people were murdered and ethnically cleansed from their traditional indigenous territory.  Then they returned.


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> The right of self determination comes from being native, indigenous, and purchasing and improving land.
> That applies to native Arab Moslem Palestinians, but not illegal Jewish European immigrants.



You have inverted reality.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So if the Mexicans in the US got the world on their side they could claim self determination in the US?
> 
> Yes? No?



If they developed, over time, a separate and distinct national identity (separate from both USA and Mexico), yes.  Why not?


----------



## Hollie

It must be a humiliation to the majority Sunni Arab world that the wannabe Emir of Gaza’istan is performing some world class sucking up before the apostate Shia. 

Lest anyone forget, the _forerunner of justice and freedom™️ _arrests women for going to soccer matches and just sentenced a woman to 20 years in prison for removing her islamic protective outerwear. 


https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/439848/Iran-is-forerunner-of-justice-and-freedom-Ismail-Haniyeh






TEHRAN - Ismail Haniyeh, head of the political bureau of the Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) has said that Iran is “forerunner of justice and freedom”.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooo, they just can’t decide.
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/
> 
> Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.
> 
> 
> 
> The families are saying, "That sucks!  If only they had been killed by Israel they would be called martyrs to the cause and we would have been paid more money by the PA than we had ever seen before."
> 
> The lesson the Palestinians will draw from this incident is that they should hurry up and be killed by Israel before one of their brother Palestinians does them in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The bombing in Gaza were carried out by Iraqi members of ISIS, and not Palestinians.
Click to expand...

lol  So many different parties have been accused that no one can for certain who was responsible.  I have also read one of the police who died was carrying the IED that went off.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Mindful said:


> A Palestinian human rights advocate.
> 
> View attachment 276939





When you see a Palestinian with a suicide vest, you know what makes 'em tick.


----------



## Hollie

It’s quite a budding bromance.  Haniyeh should just announce his conversion to Shia Islamism and further announce he’s carrying Khamenei‘s baby. 





Hamas chief pens letter to Iranian supreme leader, praising administration










Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh penned a letter to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei praising the Iranian government for their "extensive" support of the Hamas-ruled Gaza coastal enclave, according to Khamenei's official website.


----------



## Hollie

The terrorists got other terrorists


----------



## Hollie

There is no victory when theocratic totalitarianism is imposed.

The embracing of the scientific method, combined with the academic and intellectual freedoms of the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment is what shaped Western culture and allowed the advances we see today. 

I’m afraid those advances are non-existent when Islamic fascism is imposed upon a society,

*


Hamas thanks Iran for support 'for the victory of the Palestinians'

https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09...-support-for-the-victory-of-the-palestinians/*


----------



## Hollie

Need a fatwa? 

In this episode of “_Mr. Mufti says_”....


*Top PA religious leaders incite violence, call on Palestinians to “not stand idly by in the face of this colonialist cancer” - PMW Bulletins

Top PA religious leaders incite violence, 
call on Palestinians to "not stand idly by
in the face of this colonialist cancer"*

*Fatwa Council incites religious hatred claiming "danger of attacks against the religious and national symbols in occupied Jerusalem"*
By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
The Palestinian Authority Grand Mufti continues to incite hatred and attempt to spark unrest in Jerusalem.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror umbrella group thwarts US organized conferences in Ramallah - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the end, Arafat's plans backfired:

 By forging ties with the Khomeinists, Arafat unwittingly helped to achieve the very opposite of his dream. Iran has turned the Palestinian factions into its proxies, and the PLO has been relegated to the regional sidelines.

(full article online)

Israel Did Nothing To Create Hezbollah -- But Arafat Did (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

i24NEWS


----------



## Sixties Fan

Is there anything the least but incorrect in this?

However, when the PLO is looking for "incitement" they are doing it through the lens of their own honor/shame dynamic.

The Israeli monitor groups are looking through the lens of honesty. They mean to expose the hate that the Palestinians still say to each other in Arabic.

To the PLO, exposing its own hate is considered  "incitement" because these are things that should remain hidden - they are shameful, and the exposure itself is considered hate and incitement!

The PLO is complaining not that the Israeli media is wrong, but that it is showing the truth that they want to remain hidden. Under honor/shame, such exposures do not prompt them to examine their  own actions but to lash out at the people who expose them. Self-reflection and the desire to improve themselves have a low priority when the first and often only instinct is to hide their indefensible actions from the rest of the world.

(full article online)

PLO calls those who note that they don't teach coexistence with Israel to be "racists" and "inciters" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

With both Iranian and Qatar welfare dollars coming to the Hamas welfare fraud syndicate, pretty clearly, the Hamas leadership has every incentive to maintain the status quo. A part of that arrangement will mean Arabs-Moslems will be sacrificed as “martyrs” when the Mullocrats demand Hamas wage gee-had attacks against Israel. That’s the cost Hamas will pay to earn their welfare money. That’s just the cost of doing gee-had and dead arabs-Moslems are a small price to pay for fabulous wealth hoarded by the primary welfare fraud thieves at the top of the Hamas Islamic terrorist franchise. 
*


Hamas: 'Deal of the Century' has no chance*

*http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/268303*

Hamas leader argues that Israel and the US understand that the Palestinian position does not allow the US peace plan to be implemented.


----------



## Hollie

Maybe correct the article to describe a “subset of Arabs-Moslems...”

Just one of those quaint, cultural proclivities. 

Palestinians outraged over suspicious death of young West Bank woman | Opinion


----------



## Hollie

*Gaza explosions leave Hamas exposed*

*Gaza explosions leave Hamas exposed*

Article Summary:The two terrorist explosions that rocked the Gaza Strip despite Hamas’ tight security measures triggered questions about the movement’s capacity to stand up to the Islamic State.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists representing the Fatah franchise are threatening a religious war in response to some perceived slight. 

I'm curious to know if this is to suggest that the islamic terrorists will take child graduates from their schools of hate and push them into the so-called religious war.

Lovely, lovely folks those pious Arab-Moslems.
*


Is the PA trying to ignite a new terror campaign?

Is the PA trying to ignite a new terror campaign? - PMW Bulletins*

The PA Ministry of Religious Affairs compares Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's visit to Hebron today to then opposition leader Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount in 2000, which Arafat exploited to ignite the Intifada in which over 1,100 Israelis were murdered in terror attacks

The PA Ministry of Religious Affairs further threatened: "It will drag the region into a religious war"


----------



## Sixties Fan

IMPACT-se has been looking at Palestinian textbooks for years, and this year they find the same sort of incitement and antisemitism they have in the past. It encourages second graders to sacrifice themselves for Palestine in poetry, it makes terrorists into heroes, it uses slingshots against Israeli soldiers as physics examples and counts numbers of "martyrs" in math lessons.

But this school year the texts are more notable for what they omit.
In previous years, the textbooks at least mentioned the previous peace agreements and conferences between Israel and the PLO - the Oslo Accords, Wye River Agreement, Annapolis Conference of 2007 and so forth.

They are all erased.

Jordan's peace treaty with Israel - erased.

The textbooks have also removed examples of Jewish history in the land that were in previous editions:

 Recognition and acknowledgement of Israel and its establishment in 1948.
 Yasser Arafat’s call for a new era of coexistence, peace, and non-violence.
 Negotiations with Israel as the ultimate goal to live side-by-side in peace and security.
 The name "Israel" on two maps of a history textbook for eleventh grade.
 Meetings between Israelis and PLO leading to peace negotiations.
 Jewish historical presence and connection to Jerusalem as the Jews’ capital for that period.
 Ancient Jewish kingdoms in Palestine such as "The Jews' David's Kingdom," "the Northern
Kingdom of Israel," "the Kingdom of Judea."
 A map titled "Palestine in the Reign of Prophet David" with an accompanying passage about
the "Children of Israel."
 The Jewish revolt of Bar Kokhba in Jerusalem.

All erased. 

Jewish history is whitewashed and eliminated from the curriculum.

These aren't textbooks - they are propaganda and incitement.

(full article online)

Newest Palestinian textbooks eliminate any mention of Jewish history and peace agreements with Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

So far, so good. Who could be against peace, whether _de facto_ or _de jure_, between Israel and the Arab world?

Palestinians, that's who.

Shehada explains how peace is a bad thing because it is "humiliating."

 This [normalization] paradigm embraces the humiliating, defeatist path of normalizing relations with Israel regardless of, and untethered from, any progress on the Palestinian front, because: Iran.
...
What a victory for Benjamin Netanyahu: he can present himself as the pioneer who broke the normalization game and exposed its fragility, while offering a vision of another new Middle East which doesn’t require any practical or ideological retreat vis-a-vis the Palestinians. Along the way, he accumulates domestic political capital by framing himself as a King who can twist Arab leaders’ arms, humiliating - if not forcing - them into submission. Indeed, it’s a common belief in the Arab world that Netanyahu deliberately humiliates Arab officials engaged in normalization, whether this is grounded in fact or not. Is there a better example of how the honor/shame dynamic is an enemy of finding a win-win solution?

Notice how Shahada ignores the other benefits of relations with Israel - cooperation in intelligence, science, technology, education. He places it in terms only of opposing Iran - and yet, even on that factor alone, Arab nations are still acting in their self-interest in allying with Israel, a fact that Gazans like Shehada want to disappear.

(full article online)

Gazan accidentally proves Palestinians are the obstacles to peace in Haaretz ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Habbash is lying - UNESCO never declared Hebron or the Tomb of the Patriarchs to be "Islamic," let alone exclusively Islamic. It recognizes that that main frame of the site was built in Herodian times, under Jewish self-rule. It also recognizes that it was a holy Jewish (and Christian) site way before Islam. 

UNESCO simply declared it Palestinian based on the world believing that it is part of a mythical nation that never existed. But it never said a word about it being exclusively Muslim. 

Given that under international law, people have the right to visit their holy sites, Palestinians are lying when they try to ban Jews from worship in sites that were holy 2000 years before Mohammed ever soiled his first diaper.

I also will note that already in 2009, when "Palestine" first bid to join UNESCO, they made it clear that the primary purpose of them joining that organization was to ban Jews from holy sites. 

(full article online)

Did UNESCO say that the Tomb of the Patriarchs was purely Muslim? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

First visual in U.N. Visitors area: the “State of Palestine.”

Funny thing, though: when they were reviewed last month by the U.N. committee against racial discrimination, the Palestinian reps argued they should not really be held to account because they’re not really a state.

-------------

No joke: U.N.'s "Human Rights Council" to hold panel event on Sept. 12 to condemn human rights sanctions by U.S. & Europe against dictatorships.

Speakers:





 Venezuela FM J. Arreaza, Chair of NAM





 Venezuela's UNHRC rep





 UNHRC expert Jean Ziegler, founder of the Qaddafi Prize


Hillel Neuer (@HillelNeuer) | Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

Just months after signing Oslo Accords with Israel, PLO chief Yasser Arafat smuggled four arch-terrorists into Gaza, using his own car.

(Full article online)

How Arafat smuggled terrorists into Gaza - with his own car


----------



## Hollie

Truly shocking that Arab-Moslem nations aren't willing to accept those "Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians". 

Maybe that little dalliance called "Black September" has something to do with it. Or, maybe the financial and political burden of people who are black hole of want and entitlement.



Canada denies Arab media report it will take in 100,000 Palestinians

_According to report, Canada would receive 100,000 Palestinians from Lebanon and Syria and Spain would receive 16,000 Palestinians from Lebanon, alongside similar agreements with Belgium and France.
Canada denied a report in the Lebanon-based newspaper Al Akhbar  on Wednesday according to which the country has reached an understanding with the United States that it will receive 100,000 Palestinians (40,000 from Lebanon and another 60,000 from Syria)._


----------



## Hollie

There’s really no way to confirm if Hamas actually arrested anyone of if any arrests are anything but part of a propaganda ploy to avoid looking like Islamic terrorist bumpkins on the receiving end of the gee-had.  


Hamas arrests 'mastermind' of Gaza suicide bombings

The Hamas terrorist organization announced on Tuesday that it had arrested the "mastermind" of the suicide bombings in the Gaza Strip that targeted two police checkpoints last Tuesday, resulting in the deaths of three policemen, according to the Palestinian Sawa news agency.


----------



## Hollie

It's a shame that uppity women don't understand their place in the wondrous Islamist social order.



Palestinian PM vows to release probe result over woman's death

Though the exact circumstances surrounding Israa Gharib's death last month remain unknown, rights activists have alleged she died after being beaten by family members in a so-called "honour killing" - an accusation the family rejects.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Who are the Palestinians?  Arabs used to complete the destruction of Israel, at their own cost.  Their lives, their happiness, their futures.  All must stay prisoners of the Muslim nightmare of hatred and control of Jews, at any cost ]

Unlike UNHCR, UNRWA does not help Palestinians who desire to become citizens of their host countries nor does it facilitate immigration to other countries that might accept them. UNRWA only allows them and their descendants to be considered "Palestine refugees" forever, in a permanent stateless existence until Israel is destroyed.

Palestinians almost never qualify for asylum in Western countries, since (except for those from Syria) they are not fleeing persecution or war.

Self-proclaimed Palestinian leaders have, since the 1950s, pushed the fantasy that their people have no desire to become citizens anywhere else but Israel, and any moves to naturalize them in Syria, Lebanon or Egypt have been opposed bitterly in the name of "Palestinian unity." Notably, when Palestinians fled Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein, thousands were stranded on the Iraqi/Syrian border with no Arab country willing to accept them. When UNHCR found Western nations willing to accept them, Palestinian "leaders" complained bitterly, worried that Palestinians who find citizenship elsewhere will no longer be cannon fodder against Israel, which is their primary purpose according to Arab leaders and UNRWA.

(full article online)

Palestinians in Lebanon protest against @UNRWA, demand to be allowed to immigrate to Western countries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ I have lost count on how many times the PA representatives, ha, say that something Israel does means "WAR".
They keep forgetting they, the Arabs, have not stopped being at war with  Israel since 1920.  And with all Jews, since the 7th century
Or maybe they have not forgotten, and are simply playing games???
Oh, no....that could not be.....could it? ]

The Palestinian Authority continues to incite violence. Following yesterday's visit by Israeli leaders to Hebron, the PA is now saying that Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's presence there was an act of "obvious war" and that he "defiled" the city:

"The [PA] Ministry of Religious Affairs emphasized that [Israeli] occupation Prime Minister [Benjamin Netanyahu]'s defilement of Hebron and the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., Cave of the Patriarchs) is nothing but obvious war, in which he has declared his blatant hatred towards the Palestinian presence in Hebron and the Ibrahimi Mosque, which is a purely Islamic mosque."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Sept. 5, 2019]

Palestinian Media Watch reported yesterday that the PA might want to launch a new wave of terror since the PA ministry, prior to Netanyahu's visit, compared it to then opposition leader Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount in 2000, which Arafat exploited to ignite the PA's 5-year terror campaign - the Intifada - in which more than 1,100 Israelis were murdered in terror attacks.

This hate speech and these messages of incitement to violence from the PA are continuing. The Palestinian Arab Front, which is a member of the PLO, called Netanyahu's visit to the Cave of the Patriarchs a "defilement" and "a clear declaration of war." The organization further incited violence, calling for "a popular response," promising that its "fighting people will not sit idly by":

"The Palestinian Arab Front said that Netanyahu's invasion of the Ibrahimi Mosque and *defilement* of it constitute *a clear declaration of war and contempt for the Muslims' sensibilities... It called for a popular response* that will be at the level of the crime the occupation forces are committing. The front added: *'Our fighting people will not sit idly by before the defilement of its holy sites.* The occupation bears full responsibility for this crime. [Our people] will defend its holy sites with all its strength.'"
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Sept. 5, 2019]

(full article online)

Palestinians in Lebanon protest against @UNRWA, demand to be allowed to immigrate to Western countries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

I know you will find this as shocking as I did but the cradle to grave indoctrination into the Arab-Moslem Death Cult has become more zealous. 

When you instill a pathology, when you teach your children that their mental disorder is a normative part of growing up to die in gee-had, you accomplish nothing but breeding for the purpose of destroying your children.

What a truly sick, depraved Cult. 


New Study: Palestinian Educational Materials Even More Radical Than Before, Celebrate Jihad and Terrorism, Delegitimize Israel







Palestinian schoolchildren sit inside a classroom at an UNRWA-run school, on the first day of a new school year, in Gaza City, Aug. 29, 2018. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.

A study has found that new Palestinian educational materials to be used during the 2019-2020 school year have, despite considerable international criticism, become even more ridden with anti-Israel and sometimes antisemitic propaganda.

According to the group IMPACT-se, which evaluated the materials according to the standards of the UN cultural body UNESCO, the materials contain “a systematic insertion of violence, martyrdom and jihad across all grades and subjects.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Who are the Palestinians?  Arabs used to complete the destruction of Israel, at their own cost.  Their lives, their happiness, their futures.  All must stay prisoners of the Muslim nightmare of hatred and control of Jews, at any cost ]
> 
> Unlike UNHCR, UNRWA does not help Palestinians who desire to become citizens of their host countries nor does it facilitate immigration to other countries that might accept them. UNRWA only allows them and their descendants to be considered "Palestine refugees" forever, in a permanent stateless existence until Israel is destroyed.
> 
> Palestinians almost never qualify for asylum in Western countries, since (except for those from Syria) they are not fleeing persecution or war.
> 
> Self-proclaimed Palestinian leaders have, since the 1950s, pushed the fantasy that their people have no desire to become citizens anywhere else but Israel, and any moves to naturalize them in Syria, Lebanon or Egypt have been opposed bitterly in the name of "Palestinian unity." Notably, when Palestinians fled Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein, thousands were stranded on the Iraqi/Syrian border with no Arab country willing to accept them. When UNHCR found Western nations willing to accept them, Palestinian "leaders" complained bitterly, worried that Palestinians who find citizenship elsewhere will no longer be cannon fodder against Israel, which is their primary purpose according to Arab leaders and UNRWA.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians in Lebanon protest against @UNRWA, demand to be allowed to immigrate to Western countries ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> Unlike UNHCR, UNRWA does not help Palestinians who desire to become citizens of their host countries nor does it facilitate immigration to other countries that might accept them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Radio show]

"They taught me from a young age that Jews have no connection this land, and that Israel is a racist colonial project set up by Western imperialists and supported by America - the Great Satan - to divide the Ottoman Caliphate so that there would never be a Muslim empire again."

He described his mixed Muslim and Jewish heritage and how his father, a Palestinian Arab born in Beit Shean in 1945, told him "how Arab radio broadcasts urged all the Arabs of British Palestine to clear out immediately to make room for the great slaughter that would be carried out, promising them they would come back and seize the properties of slaughtered Jews in a matter of days. So they left and became refugees in camps in Jordan, in Syria, and in Lebanon."

But a decade later, when Mark moved to Canada to study at university, an unexpected encounter changed his life forever. This is the story of how Mark became Mordechai.

(full article and radio show online)

The 'Palestinian refugee' who became a Yeshiva boy


----------



## Hollie

I’m not sure what protections women can expect in a part of the world where the politico-religious ideology establishes women as inferior to men. 




Palestinian women demand legal protection after suspected ‘honor killing’

RAMALLAH: Hundreds of Palestinians demonstrated in the West Bank on Wednesday to demand legal protection for women after a 21-year-old woman died last month in what rights groups say was a so-called honor killing.

A Palestinian Authority investigation is underway into the death of Isra’a Ghrayeb, a make-up artist who activists say was beaten by male relatives after a video posted on Instagram allegedly showed a meeting between her and a man who had proposed to her.

According to Palestinian media reports, Ghrayeb sustained serious spinal injuries after falling from a balcony in her home in Beit Sahour, near Bethlehem, while trying to escape an assault by her brothers. She died on Aug. 22.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie,  et al,

This is just so sad.



Hollie said:


> RAMALLAH: Hundreds of Palestinians demonstrated in the West Bank on Wednesday to demand legal protection for women after a 21-year-old woman died last month in what rights groups say was a so-called honor killing.


*(COMMENT)*

While no country is perfect, who in their right mind would have guessed this to be a problem in the Middle East?

.........  
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> This is just so sad.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> RAMALLAH: Hundreds of Palestinians demonstrated in the West Bank on Wednesday to demand legal protection for women after a 21-year-old woman died last month in what rights groups say was a so-called honor killing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While no country is perfect, who in their right mind would have guessed this to be a problem in the Middle East?
> 
> ......... View attachment 277754
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Yes, a 21 year old woman "falling off" a balcony. I have these nightmare images of people in Iraq and Gaza being thrown from rooftops. 

I agree, no system is perfect. But we have seen in the West, within the last 100 years and here in the Great Satan within the last 50 years that great societal changes are possible. Women's rights for one example, shaped around the principles of equal rights, personal freedoms and personal responsibility. 

Sadly, in so much of the Arab/Moslem world, theocratic totalitarianism is presumed to be the alternative to secular institutions and in many ways, societal norms of the 7th century are still commonplace.


----------



## Sixties Fan

These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."

As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.

(full article online)

Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sure enough, after yesterday's protest, a Palestinian group has criticized not Lebanon or UNRWA for keeping these protesters in miserable conditions with no way out, but the protesters themselves!

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)  called for an urgent response to the "accelerated resettlement and displacement projects targeting Palestinian camps in Lebanon," which "threaten a new Nakba and liquidation of the refugee issue."

The group called to prepare an urgent field action plan "to address all suspicious schemes that are trying to push the Palestinian refugee to call for mass migration."

The group said that the  desire to become citizens of EU countries or Canada "are to serve American attempts to liquidate the Palestinian cause through the final cancellation of the issue of refugees and the right of return in line with the Zionist vision."

For over 70 years, self-proclaimed Palestinian leaders have done everything possible to keep their people in misery. Nothing has changed.


(full article online)

Palestinian group opposes Palestinians seeking better lives elsewhere ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

*Invasion Alert!
*
In proper drama queen fashion, (dresses and heels), folks in the Cult that is sometimes called the Pal Authority have declared "an act of war" has occurred. 

PA: Netanyahu “invaded” and “defiled” Hebron - it’s an “obvious war” - PMW Bulletins



By Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus

The Palestinian Authority continues to incite violence. Following yesterday's visit by Israeli leaders to Hebron, the PA is now saying that Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's presence there was an act of "obvious war" and that he "defiled" the city:

"The [PA] Ministry of Religious Affairs emphasized that [Israeli] occupation Prime Minister [Benjamin Netanyahu]'s defilement of Hebron and the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., Cave of the Patriarchs) is nothing but obvious war, in which he has declared his blatant hatred towards the Palestinian presence in Hebron and the Ibrahimi Mosque, which is a purely Islamic mosque."
[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Sept. 5, 2019


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians.....thieves of anyone's heritage.....because Islam is the final word of Allah.......]

Arab Municipality Claims Joshua’s Alter on Mt. Ebal is ‘Palestinian Heritage Site’


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*
> 
> **
Click to expand...

Anywhere in the world, build anything without a permit and it is an illegal building which will in time be demolished.

These illegal builders only have themselves to blame for wanting to build without a permit as if the whole land belonged to them, and to the EU which continues to fund these illegal buildings instead of forcing the Arabs to seat down and negotiate and follow the Oslo Accords those Arabs signed in the first place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anywhere in the world, build anything without a permit and it is an illegal building which will in time be demolished.
> 
> These illegal builders only have themselves to blame for wanting to build without a permit as if the whole land belonged to them, and to the EU which continues to fund these illegal buildings instead of forcing the Arabs to seat down and negotiate and follow the Oslo Accords those Arabs signed in the first place.
Click to expand...

Pfffft! Stupid post.

Jews can get permits.

Palestinians can't.

Its called apartheid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anywhere in the world, build anything without a permit and it is an illegal building which will in time be demolished.
> 
> These illegal builders only have themselves to blame for wanting to build without a permit as if the whole land belonged to them, and to the EU which continues to fund these illegal buildings instead of forcing the Arabs to seat down and negotiate and follow the Oslo Accords those Arabs signed in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft! Stupid post.
> 
> Jews can get permits.
> 
> Palestinians can't.
> 
> Its called apartheid.
Click to expand...

I never knew that was the definition of apartheid. 

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anywhere in the world, build anything without a permit and it is an illegal building which will in time be demolished.
> 
> These illegal builders only have themselves to blame for wanting to build without a permit as if the whole land belonged to them, and to the EU which continues to fund these illegal buildings instead of forcing the Arabs to seat down and negotiate and follow the Oslo Accords those Arabs signed in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft! Stupid post.
> 
> Jews can get permits.
> 
> Palestinians can't.
> 
> Its called apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never knew that was the definition of apartheid.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Of course you didn't.
One rule for the Jews.
Different rule for the Palestinians.
Apartheid.


----------



## Sixties Fan

What really happened is that in January 2017 the two youths both had knives and were trying to enter the Karnei Shomron settlement. The security guard was suspicious and saw the knives, drew his gun and demanded that they drop the knives, asking "Do you want to die?" Eventually the pair did give up without being hurt at all.

Watch:




(full article online)

Latest Arab lie: "Innocent students being threatened by settlers" Truth: They had knives and were about to attack. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anywhere in the world, build anything without a permit and it is an illegal building which will in time be demolished.
> 
> These illegal builders only have themselves to blame for wanting to build without a permit as if the whole land belonged to them, and to the EU which continues to fund these illegal buildings instead of forcing the Arabs to seat down and negotiate and follow the Oslo Accords those Arabs signed in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft! Stupid post.
> 
> Jews can get permits.
> 
> Palestinians can't.
> 
> Its called apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never knew that was the definition of apartheid.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you didn't.
> One rule for the Jews.
> Different rule for the Palestinians.
> Apartheid.
Click to expand...


So, no link. 

As usual, you tend to change the subject when your claims are unsupportable.

There are Pal’istanian Arabs in Israel with equal rights so there goes your bogus, invented definition of apartheid.

What are the rules for Arabs-Moslems and Jews in Gaza? Wait, want?

What was the term used by the Nazi regime for “no Jews”?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Pfffft! Stupid post.
> 
> Jews can get permits.
> 
> Palestinians can't.
> 
> Its called apartheid.



Wait, Arab Palestinians are giving out building permits to Israelis (Jews) in Arab-controlled areas?  Link?


----------



## Hollie

To their credit, the IDF is responding promptly to attacks at their border and to Islamic terrorist rocket fire.
*


Israel Strikes Hamas Targets in Gaza After Five Rockets Launched *

*Israel strikes Hamas targets in Gaza after five rockets launched
*
One rocket fell in an open area, no casualties reported ■ Two Palestinian teens, Khaled Abu Bakr al-Rubaie, 14, and Ali al-Ashqar, 17, were killed by live Israeli fire during weekly demonstrations at the border


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. The Islamic terrorists are upset that the Israeli military takes offense to Islamic terrorists “hurling explosive devices, grenades, firebombs and rocks”. 

What could go wrong?




Hamas Vows Revenge Against Israel for Deaths of Rioters on ‘Especially Violent’ Day on Gaza Border

More than 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday in an “especially violent” manner, the IDF said.

The rioters — hurling explosive devices, grenades, firebombs and rocks — damaged the border fence in several locations, according to the Israeli military.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a staged protest to gain sympathy through the manipulation of the media.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> These schools are all new, within the past couple of years. Up until now, somehow the students managed to get educated at other schools. But the major reason to build these illegal schools is to make a stink when Israel tears them down, and then go to the media and whine, "Israel is confiscating the right of dozens of students from the area to receive public education."
> 
> As documented by the Regavim NGO, many times these communities themselves are built up from scratch as well, also illegally. I saw dozens of them in Area C, where they steal water from Israeli villages and build willy-nilly on hills chosen specifically to place Arabs between Jewish settlements. I once made an animation of satellite imagery showing several such Arab villages being created over only a few years.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians admit they build schools as a land grab, knowingly putting students at risk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> *Teaching in a Village Under Demolition Orders*
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*


This is based on the twin concepts that Sympathy is always a good foundation in which to gain support; and, that media workers are hounds → always looking for the next Big Story on which to build and boost their reputation _(even at the expense of the truth)_.

..........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF "A"  →  This is NOT "apartheid" or even associated with "apartheid."

BLUF "B"  →  This is a false accusation.  Palestinians can NOT get building permits in Area "C" - any more than - Jews are allowed to buy land in Areas "A" and "B."



P F Tinmore said:


> Pfffft! Stupid post.
> 
> Jews can get permits.
> 
> Palestinians can't.
> 
> Its called apartheid.


*(COMMENT)*

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has increased the penalties for land purchases or transactions that (under sale) transferred by sale land into the hand of Israeli.

While this may be a violation of Artice 5(v) → International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), it is NOT "apartheid" under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

"The crime of *apartheid *means" inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in • Paragraph 1, Article 7 • Crimes against Humanity • committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;​
Again, the term "apartheid" is being used for sensational sympathy purposes and propaganda tool.  It is not being used in a realistic sense.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft! Stupid post.
> 
> Jews can get permits.
> 
> Palestinians can't.
> 
> Its called apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, Arab Palestinians are giving out building permits to Israelis (Jews) in Arab-controlled areas?  Link?
Click to expand...



Oh, Tinmore.  You marked this post "funny" but let's talk for a minute, why don't we?

In Israel (under Israeli government authority):

building permits can legally be obtained by both Arabs and Jews (Israeli citizens)
building permits are granted in proportionate numbers to both Arabs and Jews
In "Palestine" (under PA or Hamas authority);

Jews are NEVER granted building permits
Jews can NOT legally obtain building permits
It is illegal to sell property to Jews (under penalty of death or life work camps)
entrance of Jews to any territory under PA or Hamas authority carries the dire threat of death
there are NO JEWS in "Palestine" or Gaza

If there is any apartheid, (and I don't think there is), the guilty party is obvious.

So when you say, "Jews can get permits, Arabs can't", you are specifically discussing ONLY Area C.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

We've heard recently that 'Palestine' intends to annex Area C (that is, to apply Palestinian sovereignty over the territory of Area C).  

Do you think they are going to give citizenship to all of the Jews in that territory?  Do you think they are legally or morally obligated to do so?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> We've heard recently that 'Palestine' intends to annex Area C (that is, to apply Palestinian sovereignty over the territory of Area C).
> 
> Do you think they are going to give citizenship to all of the Jews in that territory?  Do you think they are legally or morally obligated to do so?


The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> We've heard recently that 'Palestine' intends to annex Area C (that is, to apply Palestinian sovereignty over the territory of Area C).
> 
> Do you think they are going to give citizenship to all of the Jews in that territory?  Do you think they are legally or morally obligated to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
Click to expand...

The idea has been floated by many Palestinians that the settlers in the West Bank become Palestinian citizens.  That way nobody would have to move. It sounds like the most reasonable idea.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

Yes, these are good questions.



toomuchtime_ said:


> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.



*(COMMENT)*

Q:  The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?

A:  At the moment, the two organizations (the PLO and The PA) are essentially the same.  The Palestine Liberation Organization _(PLO) _is sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine.  But as it happens, President Abbas of the State of Palestine and The Palestinian National Authority (PNA/PA), is connected to the PLO because President Abbas is also the Chairman of the PLO.

Historically, the Palestinian Authority (PA) is an organization that was implemented by the Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II).  But the Palestine in the "Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement" is the PLO _(ie the agreement was between Israel and the PLO)_.  Thus, unless speciffically dissolved, the PA is an action arm that can _(at the PLO's discretion)_ have an existance beyond that invisioned by the Agreement.  Since its creation, the PA has never actually exercised any of the Dispute Resolution avenues open to the Palestinians on the many questions unted the Permanent Status Negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.)_.​Q:  [T]he PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?

A:  Part One → Political

◈  The political existence of any state is independent of recognition by the other states.

◈  Since the Oslo Accords, which was recognized internationally by a third parties:

✦  The United States of America

✦  The Russian Federation

✦  The Kingdom of Norway​
B:  Part Two:  →  Exsitence of Sovereignty​
◈  The international community the recognition of the right to independence is predicated on the establishment through self-determination:

✦  It is the creation of a deliniated sovereign state.

✦  The state is soley ruled by the entity that created.​
◈  The international community must recognition the creator as an entity that can perform the normal functions of government.

◈  The tacit recognition implies the intention of accepting new state as legitimate.​
◈   The limits of the deliniated sovereign territory extends to all inhabitants within the limits.

✦  Affiliation is drawn with a particular sovereign state.  Nationality infers a citizenship.

✦  A relationship between an individual and a sovereign state in which the individual owes allegiance to the sovereign state which, in turn, extends an entitled protection.​_Just my two cents worth._

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Yes, these are good questions.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?
> 
> A:  At the moment, the two organizations (the PLO and The PA) are essentially the same.  The Palestine Liberation Organization _(PLO) _is sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine.  But as it happens, President Abbas of the State of Palestine and The Palestinian National Authority (PNA/PA), is connected to the PLO because President Abbas is also the Chairman of the PLO.
> 
> Historically, the Palestinian Authority (PA) is an organization that was implemented by the Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II).  But the Palestine in the "Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement" is the PLO _(ie the agreement was between Israel and the PLO)_.  Thus, unless speciffically dissolved, the PA is an action arm that can _(at the PLO's discretion)_ have an existance beyond that invisioned by the Agreement.  Since its creation, the PA has never actually exercised any of the Dispute Resolution avenues open to the Palestinians on the many questions unted the Permanent Status Negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.)_.​Q:  [T]he PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?
> 
> A:  Part One → Political
> 
> ◈  The political existence of any state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> 
> ◈  Since the Oslo Accords, which was recognized internationally by a third parties:
> 
> ✦  The United States of America
> 
> ✦  The Russian Federation
> 
> ✦  The Kingdom of Norway​
> B:  Part Two:  →  Exsitence of Sovereignty​
> ◈  The international community the recognition of the right to independence is predicated on the establishment through self-determination:
> 
> ✦  It is the creation of a deliniated sovereign state.
> 
> ✦  The state is soley ruled by the entity that created.​
> ◈  The international community must recognition the creator as an entity that can perform the normal functions of government.
> 
> ◈  The tacit recognition implies the intention of accepting new state as legitimate.​
> ◈   The limits of the deliniated sovereign territory extends to all inhabitants within the limits.
> 
> ✦  Affiliation is drawn with a particular sovereign state.  Nationality infers a citizenship.
> 
> ✦  A relationship between an individual and a sovereign state in which the individual owes allegiance to the sovereign state which, in turn, extends an entitled protection.​_Just my two cents worth._
> 
> .........View attachment 277869
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are glossing over several important parts of history. Palestine was established as a state in 1924.

All during the Mandate period, the Palestinians attempted to form an independent government. After the Mandate left, the Palestinians declared independence and wrote a constitution. This covered all Palestinians and all territory inside its international borders.

A new constitution defined a new independent government in 2003. A legitimate government was established in 2006. Another legitimate government was established in 2007.

All of this was illegally taken down by foreign military intervention.

The Palestinians need to back out of these violations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Yes, these are good questions.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?
> 
> A:  At the moment, the two organizations (the PLO and The PA) are essentially the same.  The Palestine Liberation Organization _(PLO) _is sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine.  But as it happens, President Abbas of the State of Palestine and The Palestinian National Authority (PNA/PA), is connected to the PLO because President Abbas is also the Chairman of the PLO.
> 
> Historically, the Palestinian Authority (PA) is an organization that was implemented by the Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II).  But the Palestine in the "Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement" is the PLO _(ie the agreement was between Israel and the PLO)_.  Thus, unless speciffically dissolved, the PA is an action arm that can _(at the PLO's discretion)_ have an existance beyond that invisioned by the Agreement.  Since its creation, the PA has never actually exercised any of the Dispute Resolution avenues open to the Palestinians on the many questions unted the Permanent Status Negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.)_.​Q:  [T]he PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?
> 
> A:  Part One → Political
> 
> ◈  The political existence of any state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> 
> ◈  Since the Oslo Accords, which was recognized internationally by a third parties:
> 
> ✦  The United States of America
> 
> ✦  The Russian Federation
> 
> ✦  The Kingdom of Norway​
> B:  Part Two:  →  Exsitence of Sovereignty​
> ◈  The international community the recognition of the right to independence is predicated on the establishment through self-determination:
> 
> ✦  It is the creation of a deliniated sovereign state.
> 
> ✦  The state is soley ruled by the entity that created.​
> ◈  The international community must recognition the creator as an entity that can perform the normal functions of government.
> 
> ◈  The tacit recognition implies the intention of accepting new state as legitimate.​
> ◈   The limits of the deliniated sovereign territory extends to all inhabitants within the limits.
> 
> ✦  Affiliation is drawn with a particular sovereign state.  Nationality infers a citizenship.
> 
> ✦  A relationship between an individual and a sovereign state in which the individual owes allegiance to the sovereign state which, in turn, extends an entitled protection.​_Just my two cents worth._
> 
> .........View attachment 277869
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are glossing over several important parts of history. Palestine was established as a state in 1924.
> 
> All during the Mandate period, the Palestinians attempted to form an independent government. After the Mandate left, the Palestinians declared independence and wrote a constitution. This covered all Palestinians and all territory inside its international borders.
> 
> A new constitution defined a new independent government in 2003. A legitimate government was established in 2006. Another legitimate government was established in 2007.
> 
> All of this was illegally taken down by foreign military intervention.
> 
> The Palestinians need to back out of these violations.
Click to expand...


Oh, my. Here we are, as usual, with PF Tinmore’s “The Treaty of Lausanne created the Magical Kingdom of Pal’istan”. 

Why is it that the Treaty of Lausanne makes not a single mention of such a place?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> We've heard recently that 'Palestine' intends to annex Area C (that is, to apply Palestinian sovereignty over the territory of Area C).
> 
> Do you think they are going to give citizenship to all of the Jews in that territory?  Do you think they are legally or morally obligated to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The idea has been floated by many Palestinians that the settlers in the West Bank become Palestinian citizens.  That way nobody would have to move. It sounds like the most reasonable idea.
Click to expand...


That’s lovely.

Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state - Reuters

You can quibble over Israeli vs. Jew, (Arab-Moslem Israeli citizens are a conundrum), but let’s acknowledge some obvious issues with Jews attempting to exist in Abbas’istan.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Yes, these are good questions.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?
> 
> A:  At the moment, the two organizations (the PLO and The PA) are essentially the same.  The Palestine Liberation Organization _(PLO) _is sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine.  But as it happens, President Abbas of the State of Palestine and The Palestinian National Authority (PNA/PA), is connected to the PLO because President Abbas is also the Chairman of the PLO.
> 
> Historically, the Palestinian Authority (PA) is an organization that was implemented by the Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II).  But the Palestine in the "Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement" is the PLO _(ie the agreement was between Israel and the PLO)_.  Thus, unless speciffically dissolved, the PA is an action arm that can _(at the PLO's discretion)_ have an existance beyond that invisioned by the Agreement.  Since its creation, the PA has never actually exercised any of the Dispute Resolution avenues open to the Palestinians on the many questions unted the Permanent Status Negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.)_.​Q:  [T]he PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?
> 
> A:  Part One → Political
> 
> ◈  The political existence of any state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> 
> ◈  Since the Oslo Accords, which was recognized internationally by a third parties:
> 
> ✦  The United States of America
> 
> ✦  The Russian Federation
> 
> ✦  The Kingdom of Norway​
> B:  Part Two:  →  Exsitence of Sovereignty​
> ◈  The international community the recognition of the right to independence is predicated on the establishment through self-determination:
> 
> ✦  It is the creation of a deliniated sovereign state.
> 
> ✦  The state is soley ruled by the entity that created.​
> ◈  The international community must recognition the creator as an entity that can perform the normal functions of government.
> 
> ◈  The tacit recognition implies the intention of accepting new state as legitimate.​
> ◈   The limits of the deliniated sovereign territory extends to all inhabitants within the limits.
> 
> ✦  Affiliation is drawn with a particular sovereign state.  Nationality infers a citizenship.
> 
> ✦  A relationship between an individual and a sovereign state in which the individual owes allegiance to the sovereign state which, in turn, extends an entitled protection.​_Just my two cents worth._
> 
> .........View attachment 277869
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I suppose I see it, as a practical matter, that the West Bank is essentially a dictatorship with Abu Mazen as the dictator. The various bureaucracies that are a conglomeration of meaningless references to non-functioning agencies are a testament to waste and mismanagement. 

Something called the “Palestinian National Council” assembled in April of 2018, the first time in ten years.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> We've heard recently that 'Palestine' intends to annex Area C (that is, to apply Palestinian sovereignty over the territory of Area C).
> 
> Do you think they are going to give citizenship to all of the Jews in that territory?  Do you think they are legally or morally obligated to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The idea has been floated by many Palestinians that the settlers in the West Bank become Palestinian citizens.  That way nobody would have to move. It sounds like the most reasonable idea.
Click to expand...

lol  No one wants to become a Palestinian citizen, not even the Palestinians who live in Israel.  Regardless of what the UN and EU say, there is no effective Palestinian government, so the designation of "Palestinian citizen" means nothing.  The heart of the problem is that there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, and until there is no proposal from any Palestinian entity can be considered "reasonable".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> We've heard recently that 'Palestine' intends to annex Area C (that is, to apply Palestinian sovereignty over the territory of Area C).
> 
> Do you think they are going to give citizenship to all of the Jews in that territory?  Do you think they are legally or morally obligated to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The idea has been floated by many Palestinians that the settlers in the West Bank become Palestinian citizens.  That way nobody would have to move. It sounds like the most reasonable idea.
Click to expand...


Sounds reasonable.

Two Israelis wounded in West Bank stabbing


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

All I can say is: WOW*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> You are glossing over several important parts of history. Palestine was established as a state in 1924.


*(COMMENT)*

100% WRONG



P F Tinmore said:


> All during the Mandate period, the Palestinians attempted to form an independent government. After the Mandate left, the Palestinians declared independence and wrote a constitution. This covered all Palestinians and all territory inside its international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

100% Wrong.  

You did not mention that the Arab Palestinians turned down the participation *(three-time by 1923)* in the development of self-governing activities.

The All-Palestine Government was headed by enemies of the Allied Powers.

The All-Palestine Government filed for independence over territory already filed for and defended as the independent territory of Israel.

The All-Palestine Government was a puppet regime of the Egyptian Government and later dissolved their Puppet Regime when it failed to achieve Egypt's desired goals. 



P F Tinmore said:


> A new constitution defined a new independent government in 2003. A legitimate government was established in 2006. Another legitimate government was established in 2007.


*(COMMENT)*

I have yet seen an Arab Palestinians Government that was able to stand-alone and conduct even the simplest of functions normally associated with a sovereign nation. 



P F Tinmore said:


> All of this was illegally taken down by foreign military intervention.


*(COMMENT)*

No one Illegally seized any territory from the PalestineLiberation Organization.  There is an argument to be made that there was territory, former sovereign under Jordanian Law by the consent of the Palestinian people.  But the King abandon the territory in 1988 and left it in the hands of the Israelis.  And there was no Arab Palestinian entity that claimed the right to the territory based on previous Arab Palestinian sovereignty over the territory.

The establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) over the territory, and later the Mandate could hardly be considered a hostile Military acquisition.  It was the Great War (WWI).  And at the Armistice of Mudros _(HMS Agamemnon)_ the Ottoman Empire surrendered the territory to the Allied Powers.  The territorial considerations were ironed-out for the third time in the Treaty of Lausanne when Attaturk indorsed the position:



			
				Article 16 • Treaty of Lausanne said:
			
		

> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.



And don't bring up Article 30.  It is not even in the Part of the Treaty that deals with the territory.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the Treaty grants anything at all to the Arab Palestinians in terms of territorial sovereignty.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians need to back out of these violations.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't know what this means...  Even in November of 1988, the PLO Declaration was ambiguous at best.  It is questionable whether or not any territory in the region was sovereign unto the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Arab Palestinians, had ever established the criteria for a sovereign and independent state.

Violations my backside*!*

The decisions in the last century were done and accepted as practice in that era.   You cannot apply 21st Century practices retroactively to the conditions of the mid-20th Century.  What is done is done.  The Arab Palestinians need to move-on before they come to a point of irrelevance like that of the Kurds.

........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Yes, these are good questions.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?  But the UNGA recognized the PLO, not the PA, as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, so it would have to be the PLO, but since the PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?  People talk about what the Palestinians might do, instead of what the Palestinian government might do because no one, not even the Palestinians have any idea what the Palestinian government is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Q:  The question that comes to mind is, who are "they"?  Hamas?  The PA?
> 
> A:  At the moment, the two organizations (the PLO and The PA) are essentially the same.  The Palestine Liberation Organization _(PLO) _is sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine.  But as it happens, President Abbas of the State of Palestine and The Palestinian National Authority (PNA/PA), is connected to the PLO because President Abbas is also the Chairman of the PLO.
> 
> Historically, the Palestinian Authority (PA) is an organization that was implemented by the Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II).  But the Palestine in the "Israeli-Palestine Interim Agreement" is the PLO _(ie the agreement was between Israel and the PLO)_.  Thus, unless speciffically dissolved, the PA is an action arm that can _(at the PLO's discretion)_ have an existance beyond that invisioned by the Agreement.  Since its creation, the PA has never actually exercised any of the Dispute Resolution avenues open to the Palestinians on the many questions unted the Permanent Status Negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.)_.​Q:  [T]he PLO is not recognized as a government how can it apply sovereignty?
> 
> A:  Part One → Political
> 
> ◈  The political existence of any state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> 
> ◈  Since the Oslo Accords, which was recognized internationally by a third parties:
> 
> ✦  The United States of America
> 
> ✦  The Russian Federation
> 
> ✦  The Kingdom of Norway​
> B:  Part Two:  →  Exsitence of Sovereignty​
> ◈  The international community the recognition of the right to independence is predicated on the establishment through self-determination:
> 
> ✦  It is the creation of a deliniated sovereign state.
> 
> ✦  The state is soley ruled by the entity that created.​
> ◈  The international community must recognition the creator as an entity that can perform the normal functions of government.
> 
> ◈  The tacit recognition implies the intention of accepting new state as legitimate.​
> ◈   The limits of the deliniated sovereign territory extends to all inhabitants within the limits.
> 
> ✦  Affiliation is drawn with a particular sovereign state.  Nationality infers a citizenship.
> 
> ✦  A relationship between an individual and a sovereign state in which the individual owes allegiance to the sovereign state which, in turn, extends an entitled protection.​_Just my two cents worth._
> 
> .........View attachment 277869
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Since neither the PA nor the PLO can effectively apply sovereignty anyplace, this really isn't an important topic, but despite the fact that many of the same characters have important roles in both the PA and PLO, they are distinct organizations.  If there were ever another election among the Palestinians, Hamas would be able to participate and possibly even win control of the PA, but since the UN, at Abbas' insistence, recognized the PLO as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinians - despite the fact that Hamas is not a member of the PLO and polls show Hamas represents about half the Palestinian people - the PA could not be said to represent the Palestinians - because non PLO parties are in it - and the PA handles all domestic and foreign functions for the Palestinians and the PA and not the PLO is dealt with directly by the UN and everyone else.  

So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> All I can say is: WOW*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are glossing over several important parts of history. Palestine was established as a state in 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100% WRONG
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All during the Mandate period, the Palestinians attempted to form an independent government. After the Mandate left, the Palestinians declared independence and wrote a constitution. This covered all Palestinians and all territory inside its international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100% Wrong.
> 
> You did not mention that the Arab Palestinians turned down the participation *(three-time by 1923)* in the development of self-governing activities.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government was headed by enemies of the Allied Powers.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government filed for independence over territory already filed for and defended as the independent territory of Israel.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government was a puppet regime of the Egyptian Government and later dissolved their Puppet Regime when it failed to achieve Egypt's desired goals.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A new constitution defined a new independent government in 2003. A legitimate government was established in 2006. Another legitimate government was established in 2007.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have yet seen an Arab Palestinians Government that was able to stand-alone and conduct even the simplest of functions normally associated with a sovereign nation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of this was illegally taken down by foreign military intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one Illegally seized any territory from the PalestineLiberation Organization.  There is an argument to be made that there was territory, former sovereign under Jordanian Law by the consent of the Palestinian people.  But the King abandon the territory in 1988 and left it in the hands of the Israelis.  And there was no Arab Palestinian entity that claimed the right to the territory based on previous Arab Palestinian sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> The establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) over the territory, and later the Mandate could hardly be considered a hostile Military acquisition.  It was the Great War (WWI).  And at the Armistice of Mudros _(HMS Agamemnon)_ the Ottoman Empire surrendered the territory to the Allied Powers.  The territorial considerations were ironed-out for the third time in the Treaty of Lausanne when Attaturk indorsed the position:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16 • Treaty of Lausanne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And don't bring up Article 30.  It is not even in the Part of the Treaty that deals with the territory.
> 
> Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the Treaty grants anything at all to the Arab Palestinians in terms of territorial sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians need to back out of these violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't know what this means...  Even in November of 1988, the PLO Declaration was ambiguous at best.  It is questionable whether or not any territory in the region was sovereign unto the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Arab Palestinians, had ever established the criteria for a sovereign and independent state.
> 
> Violations my backside*!*
> 
> The decisions in the last century were done and accepted as practice in that era.   You cannot apply 21st Century practices retroactively to the conditions of the mid-20th Century.  What is done is done.  The Arab Palestinians need to move-on before they come to a point of irrelevance like that of the Kurds.
> 
> ........View attachment 277933
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You did not mention that the Arab Palestinians turned down the participation *(three-time by 1923)* in the development of self-governing activities.


Those offers were not for independence. They were offers to buy into their settler colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> All I can say is: WOW*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are glossing over several important parts of history. Palestine was established as a state in 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100% WRONG
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All during the Mandate period, the Palestinians attempted to form an independent government. After the Mandate left, the Palestinians declared independence and wrote a constitution. This covered all Palestinians and all territory inside its international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100% Wrong.
> 
> You did not mention that the Arab Palestinians turned down the participation *(three-time by 1923)* in the development of self-governing activities.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government was headed by enemies of the Allied Powers.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government filed for independence over territory already filed for and defended as the independent territory of Israel.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government was a puppet regime of the Egyptian Government and later dissolved their Puppet Regime when it failed to achieve Egypt's desired goals.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A new constitution defined a new independent government in 2003. A legitimate government was established in 2006. Another legitimate government was established in 2007.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have yet seen an Arab Palestinians Government that was able to stand-alone and conduct even the simplest of functions normally associated with a sovereign nation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of this was illegally taken down by foreign military intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one Illegally seized any territory from the PalestineLiberation Organization.  There is an argument to be made that there was territory, former sovereign under Jordanian Law by the consent of the Palestinian people.  But the King abandon the territory in 1988 and left it in the hands of the Israelis.  And there was no Arab Palestinian entity that claimed the right to the territory based on previous Arab Palestinian sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> The establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) over the territory, and later the Mandate could hardly be considered a hostile Military acquisition.  It was the Great War (WWI).  And at the Armistice of Mudros _(HMS Agamemnon)_ the Ottoman Empire surrendered the territory to the Allied Powers.  The territorial considerations were ironed-out for the third time in the Treaty of Lausanne when Attaturk indorsed the position:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16 • Treaty of Lausanne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And don't bring up Article 30.  It is not even in the Part of the Treaty that deals with the territory.
> 
> Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the Treaty grants anything at all to the Arab Palestinians in terms of territorial sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians need to back out of these violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't know what this means...  Even in November of 1988, the PLO Declaration was ambiguous at best.  It is questionable whether or not any territory in the region was sovereign unto the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Arab Palestinians, had ever established the criteria for a sovereign and independent state.
> 
> Violations my backside*!*
> 
> The decisions in the last century were done and accepted as practice in that era.   You cannot apply 21st Century practices retroactively to the conditions of the mid-20th Century.  What is done is done.  The Arab Palestinians need to move-on before they come to a point of irrelevance like that of the Kurds.
> 
> ........View attachment 277933
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> And don't bring up Article 30. It is not even in the Part of the Treaty that deals with the territory.


Article 30 said who the land would be transferred to. The new states. And who would be the citizens of those new states. The people who live there.

The people are the sovereigns of the territory. External interference does not negate their rights.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> All I can say is: WOW*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are glossing over several important parts of history. Palestine was established as a state in 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100% WRONG
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All during the Mandate period, the Palestinians attempted to form an independent government. After the Mandate left, the Palestinians declared independence and wrote a constitution. This covered all Palestinians and all territory inside its international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100% Wrong.
> 
> You did not mention that the Arab Palestinians turned down the participation *(three-time by 1923)* in the development of self-governing activities.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government was headed by enemies of the Allied Powers.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government filed for independence over territory already filed for and defended as the independent territory of Israel.
> 
> The All-Palestine Government was a puppet regime of the Egyptian Government and later dissolved their Puppet Regime when it failed to achieve Egypt's desired goals.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A new constitution defined a new independent government in 2003. A legitimate government was established in 2006. Another legitimate government was established in 2007.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have yet seen an Arab Palestinians Government that was able to stand-alone and conduct even the simplest of functions normally associated with a sovereign nation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of this was illegally taken down by foreign military intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one Illegally seized any territory from the PalestineLiberation Organization.  There is an argument to be made that there was territory, former sovereign under Jordanian Law by the consent of the Palestinian people.  But the King abandon the territory in 1988 and left it in the hands of the Israelis.  And there was no Arab Palestinian entity that claimed the right to the territory based on previous Arab Palestinian sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> The establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) over the territory, and later the Mandate could hardly be considered a hostile Military acquisition.  It was the Great War (WWI).  And at the Armistice of Mudros _(HMS Agamemnon)_ the Ottoman Empire surrendered the territory to the Allied Powers.  The territorial considerations were ironed-out for the third time in the Treaty of Lausanne when Attaturk indorsed the position:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 16 • Treaty of Lausanne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And don't bring up Article 30.  It is not even in the Part of the Treaty that deals with the territory.
> 
> Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the Treaty grants anything at all to the Arab Palestinians in terms of territorial sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians need to back out of these violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't know what this means...  Even in November of 1988, the PLO Declaration was ambiguous at best.  It is questionable whether or not any territory in the region was sovereign unto the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Arab Palestinians, had ever established the criteria for a sovereign and independent state.
> 
> Violations my backside*!*
> 
> The decisions in the last century were done and accepted as practice in that era.   You cannot apply 21st Century practices retroactively to the conditions of the mid-20th Century.  What is done is done.  The Arab Palestinians need to move-on before they come to a point of irrelevance like that of the Kurds.
> 
> ........View attachment 277933
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And don't bring up Article 30. It is not even in the Part of the Treaty that deals with the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 30 said who the land would be transferred to. The new states. And who would be the citizens of those new states. The people who live there.
> 
> The people are the sovereigns of the territory. External interference does not negate their rights.
Click to expand...


The reference you make to Article 30 and your attempt to re-write it is one you habitually spam various threads with.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.



toomuchtime_ said:


> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.

It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

Get with the program.



P F Tinmore said:


> Article 30 said who the land would be transferred to. The new states. And who would be the citizens of those new states. The people who live there.
> 
> The people are the sovereigns of the territory. External interference does not negate their rights.


*(COMMENT)*

How is that interpretation working out for them?  Article 30 does not transfer any land; none. 

No new state was created until 1948 _(with the exception of the Emirate)_.  That was the Jewish State.  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in self-governance.


........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.


The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
Click to expand...


I see you abandoned the “Article 30” argument. Now it’s the “....because Insay so”, argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State


One of Israel's biggest lies.

Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.

On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

Yes, that is true, only as far as you take it.  But you are not being honest when you leave it at that and then imply that is the whole story.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

The Internationally recognized borders between 1922 and 1948 were set by the Allied Powers as defining the territory subject to the Mandate.  That was set by Paragraph 1 of the Order in Council (1922), and unchanged until the Mandate terminated in 1948.

In 1948 the International borders were changed, first for just a few hours when the Arab League jumped out of there sovereign territory and illegally entered into military operations outside the Charter.  Then in 1949, the Armistice Agreements set demarcation lines as agreed to by the parties to the conflict.  While the Armistice did bring a cessation to hostilities, it the various agreements did not bring an end to the conflict.

The Jordanian _(an Arab League Party)_ took what land they wanted.  The Egyptians _(an Arab League Party)_ took what land they wanted.  

In 1967, hostilities resumed after Arab League Parties violated Article 2(4) to wit: failure to refrain from the threat to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of State of Israel _[membership in the United Nations A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949]. _ 

The dispute over the territory was resolved by Treaties between Israel and the Arab League Parties _(Egypt 1979 Gaza Strip --- Jordan 1994 West Bank and Jerusalem)_.  

Since the 1920s, it has been the Arab League Parties and the Arab Palestinian belligerent complaints that have consistently attempted to use force to achieve their ends.  And since the 1920s after consistently failing to achieve their desired results, the Arab League Parties and the Arab Palestinian belligerent complainants have consistently asserted that Israel used force _(as opposed to self-defense against Arab Aggression)_ that denied the Arab League Parties and the Arab Palestinian the position in which to demand Israeli capitulation.

FINALLY, → relative to the  Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, these key points should be made: 

◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank lost their nationality, when they voluntarily accepted the protection of: 

✦  The protection of the All Palestine Government of the Gaza Strip.

✦  The protection of the Hashemite Kingdom covering the West Bank and Jerusalem.​
◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank committed _(as evidenced by their own admission)_ crimes against peace, war crimes, or a crime against humanity _(including terrorist)_, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.

◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, having never lived in the sovereign territory of Israel, demand a "right of return" for which they are not entitled.

◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, violated the provision of Paragraph 11, A/RES/194 (III) December 1948, when they pleged violence, before returning and living at peace with their neighbours. 

✦  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (12/1948)

✦  Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations.  (09/1967)

✦  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. (07/1968)

✦  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.  (08/1988)

✦  Abdel Aziz Rantisi,  interview with Al-Jazeera, _Jerusalem Post_

"By God, we will not leave one Jew in Palestine. We will fight them with all the strength we have. This is our land, not the Jews..." 


"You will have no security except outside the homeland Palestine.... We have Allah on our side, and we have the sons of the Arab and Islamic nation on our side." (06/2003)

✦  "The constants and the strategy of Hamas do not change according to circumstances. Hamas will stay faithful to jihad, to resistance, to guns, to Palestine and to Jerusalem." (01/2006)


✦  "We will not betray promises we made to God to continue the path of Jihad and resistance until the liberation of Palestine, all of Palestine. . . So be assured doctor Ayman, and all those who love Palestine like yourself, that Hamas is still the group you knew when it was founded and it will never abandon its path."  (03/2007)

✦  Hamas leader Ayman Taha, 

"It is our right as an occupied people to defend ourselves from the occupation by all means possible including suicide attacks." (12/2008)

✦  Hamas official Halil Al-Hayya, Al-Hayat newspaper, 

"Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I." (11/2010)

✦  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, (12/2012)​
It is important to remember that Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank communicate and emphasize hatred and anti-Semitism through the generations at all levels beginning in elementary school.  Even if it were to stop today, it would probably take a half-century just to dial down the rhetoric  It is virtually a futialeffort to think that peace could be maintained in the current atmosphere. 


........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are just hilarious today*!* 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.

It is neither sound nor valid.



........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Yes, that is true, only as far as you take it.  But you are not being honest when you leave it at that and then imply that is the whole story.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Internationally recognized borders between 1922 and 1948 were set by the Allied Powers as defining the territory subject to the Mandate.  That was set by Paragraph 1 of the Order in Council (1922), and unchanged until the Mandate terminated in 1948.
> 
> In 1948 the International borders were changed, first for just a few hours when the Arab League jumped out of there sovereign territory and illegally entered into military operations outside the Charter.  Then in 1949, the Armistice Agreements set demarcation lines as agreed to by the parties to the conflict.  While the Armistice did bring a cessation to hostilities, it the various agreements did not bring an end to the conflict.
> 
> The Jordanian _(an Arab League Party)_ took what land they wanted.  The Egyptians _(an Arab League Party)_ took what land they wanted.
> 
> In 1967, hostilities resumed after Arab League Parties violated Article 2(4) to wit: failure to refrain from the threat to use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of State of Israel _[membership in the United Nations A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949]. _
> 
> The dispute over the territory was resolved by Treaties between Israel and the Arab League Parties _(Egypt 1979 Gaza Strip --- Jordan 1994 West Bank and Jerusalem)_.
> 
> Since the 1920s, it has been the Arab League Parties and the Arab Palestinian belligerent complaints that have consistently attempted to use force to achieve their ends.  And since the 1920s after consistently failing to achieve their desired results, the Arab League Parties and the Arab Palestinian belligerent complainants have consistently asserted that Israel used force _(as opposed to self-defense against Arab Aggression)_ that denied the Arab League Parties and the Arab Palestinian the position in which to demand Israeli capitulation.
> 
> FINALLY, → relative to the  Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, these key points should be made:
> 
> ◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank lost their nationality, when they voluntarily accepted the protection of:
> 
> ✦  The protection of the All Palestine Government of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ✦  The protection of the Hashemite Kingdom covering the West Bank and Jerusalem.​
> ◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank committed _(as evidenced by their own admission)_ crimes against peace, war crimes, or a crime against humanity _(including terrorist)_, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.
> 
> ◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, having never lived in the sovereign territory of Israel, demand a "right of return" for which they are not entitled.
> 
> ◈    Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, violated the provision of Paragraph 11, A/RES/194 (III) December 1948, when they pleged violence, before returning and living at peace with their neighbours.
> 
> ✦  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (12/1948)
> 
> ✦  Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations.  (09/1967)
> 
> ✦  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. (07/1968)
> 
> ✦  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.  (08/1988)
> 
> ✦  Abdel Aziz Rantisi,  interview with Al-Jazeera, _Jerusalem Post_
> 
> "By God, we will not leave one Jew in Palestine. We will fight them with all the strength we have. This is our land, not the Jews..."
> 
> 
> "You will have no security except outside the homeland Palestine.... We have Allah on our side, and we have the sons of the Arab and Islamic nation on our side." (06/2003)
> 
> ✦  "The constants and the strategy of Hamas do not change according to circumstances. Hamas will stay faithful to jihad, to resistance, to guns, to Palestine and to Jerusalem." (01/2006)
> 
> 
> ✦  "We will not betray promises we made to God to continue the path of Jihad and resistance until the liberation of Palestine, all of Palestine. . . So be assured doctor Ayman, and all those who love Palestine like yourself, that Hamas is still the group you knew when it was founded and it will never abandon its path."  (03/2007)
> 
> ✦  Hamas leader Ayman Taha,
> 
> "It is our right as an occupied people to defend ourselves from the occupation by all means possible including suicide attacks." (12/2008)
> 
> ✦  Hamas official Halil Al-Hayya, Al-Hayat newspaper,
> 
> "Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I." (11/2010)
> 
> ✦  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, (12/2012)​
> It is important to remember that Arab Palestinian of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank communicate and emphasize hatred and anti-Semitism through the generations at all levels beginning in elementary school.  Even if it were to stop today, it would probably take a half-century just to dial down the rhetoric  It is virtually a futialeffort to think that peace could be maintained in the current atmosphere.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278078
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Internationally recognized borders between 1922 and 1948 were set by the Allied Powers as defining the territory subject to the Mandate. That was set by Paragraph 1 of the Order in Council (1922), and unchanged until the Mandate terminated in 1948.


The Mandate was merely a trustee. It had no land or borders. Palestine's international borders are there with or without the mandate. Palestine is Palestine with or without the Mandate. Palestinians are Palestinians with or without the Mandate.

Britain failed to bring Palestine to independence like it was charged to do under the LoN Covenant. Britain impeded all efforts by the Palestinians to work toward independence.

So the Palestinians declared independence for its own people, on its own land, and inside its own international borders. It was a perfectly legitimate declaration and it was before the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. Occupations cannot acquire sovereignty nor can they annex occupied territory.

The rest of your post is irrelevant fluff.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

Now who is deflecting*?*



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Internationally recognized borders between 1922 and 1948 were set by the Allied Powers as defining the territory subject to the Mandate. That was set by Paragraph 1 of the Order in Council (1922), and unchanged until the Mandate terminated in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was merely a trustee. It had no land or borders. Palestine's international borders are there with or without the mandate. Palestine is Palestine with or without the Mandate. Palestinians are Palestinians with or without the Mandate.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are so full of it.  Of course, there was a defined territory for the British Government of Palestine:

Title.1. This Order may be cited as *"The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."*


The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.
​
What is it about you?  →  You make these claims thinking that nobody knows?



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain failed to bring Palestine to independence like it was charged to do under the LoN Covenant. Britain impeded all efforts by the Palestinians to work toward independence.


*(COMMENT)*

First-off, Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant was a Covenant between the Allied Powers that were a party to the Covenant.  It is neither here nor there relative to what the parties (not the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank) considered sufficient for their purposes.



			
				The Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:
			
		

> “The British Government desired to establish self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”


•  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •​That is not including the further Arab Palestinian rejection _(A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)_ to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions as part of the "Step Prepatory to Independence."  And not including the:


> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.


*IF* the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank refuse to participate in the Steps Preparatory to Independence → giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, *THEN* that is the fault of the  Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank; NOT the Principal Allied Powers that attempted to help them do so.



P F Tinmore said:


> So the Palestinians declared independence for its own people, on its own land, and inside its own international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

The All Palestine Government DID NOT Declare Independence until several months "AFTER" The National Council for the Jewish State exercised their right to self-determination, in coordination with the UN Palestine Committee (UNPC) to which the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank refuse to participate.



P F Tinmore said:


> It was a perfectly legitimate declaration and it was before the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. Occupations cannot acquire sovereignty nor can they annex occupied territory.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, it was on 28 September 1948, seriously flawed.  The UNPC required that:

The stipulations contained in the declaration are recognized as fundamental laws of the State and no law, regulation or official action shall conflict or interfere with these stipulations, nor shall any law, regulation or official action prevail over them.​The APG Declaration of September 1948 cannot override the claim made by the National Council for the Jewish State four months earlier.



P F Tinmore said:


> The rest of your post is irrelevant fluff.


*(COMMENT)*

What you call "fluff" is actually an essential part of the reasoning that precluded the acceptance of self-identified Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) from being included in participation with Paragraph 11, A/RES/194 (III) (12/1948).  It is the attention to detail that makes a difference.

........
Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  And then......the world must give them money....because the PA's priorities are......well.....you know.....]

According to the calculations of Palestinian Media Watch following the PA's own pay scale, the PA has, to date, paid the six terrorists who were arrested and imprisoned for their roles in the attacks, a total of 2,892,500 shekels. The PA has also paid the families of the two suicide bombers - so-called "Martyrs" - a total of 356,400 shekels since the attacks. 

While the PA will continue to pay monthly salaries to all of the terrorists, it is noteworthy that the PA just raised the salaries of the two terrorists who prepared the suicide belts to 7,000 shekels/month. Similar to an employee of any company that receives a raise after a certain period of employment, the PA - following PA law - just raised the salaries of these two terrorists as they completed 15 years in prison (they were arrested in July and August 2004). For the last five years the PA paid them 6,000 shekels/month. 

In 18 months, the PA will also raise the salary of mass murderer Ibrahim Hamed, who is serving 54 life sentences for planning different terror attacks in which 54 people were murdered.

(full article online)

PA raises salary of suicide belt makers who murdered 16  in Café Hillel and Tzrifin attacks in 2003 - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now who is deflecting*?*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Internationally recognized borders between 1922 and 1948 were set by the Allied Powers as defining the territory subject to the Mandate. That was set by Paragraph 1 of the Order in Council (1922), and unchanged until the Mandate terminated in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was merely a trustee. It had no land or borders. Palestine's international borders are there with or without the mandate. Palestine is Palestine with or without the Mandate. Palestinians are Palestinians with or without the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are so full of it.  Of course, there was a defined territory for the British Government of Palestine:
> 
> Title.1. This Order may be cited as *"The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."*
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.
> ​
> What is it about you?  →  You make these claims thinking that nobody knows?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain failed to bring Palestine to independence like it was charged to do under the LoN Covenant. Britain impeded all efforts by the Palestinians to work toward independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First-off, Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant was a Covenant between the Allied Powers that were a party to the Covenant.  It is neither here nor there relative to what the parties (not the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank) considered sufficient for their purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •​That is not including the further Arab Palestinian rejection _(A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)_ to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions as part of the "Step Prepatory to Independence."  And not including the:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank refuse to participate in the Steps Preparatory to Independence → giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, *THEN* that is the fault of the  Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank; NOT the Principal Allied Powers that attempted to help them do so.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the Palestinians declared independence for its own people, on its own land, and inside its own international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The All Palestine Government DID NOT Declare Independence until several months "AFTER" The National Council for the Jewish State exercised their right to self-determination, in coordination with the UN Palestine Committee (UNPC) to which the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank refuse to participate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a perfectly legitimate declaration and it was before the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. Occupations cannot acquire sovereignty nor can they annex occupied territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it was on 28 September 1948, seriously flawed.  The UNPC required that:
> 
> The stipulations contained in the declaration are recognized as fundamental laws of the State and no law, regulation or official action shall conflict or interfere with these stipulations, nor shall any law, regulation or official action prevail over them.​The APG Declaration of September 1948 cannot override the claim made by the National Council for the Jewish State four months earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rest of your post is irrelevant fluff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What you call "fluff" is actually an essential part of the reasoning that precluded the acceptance of self-identified Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) from being included in participation with Paragraph 11, A/RES/194 (III) (12/1948).  It is the attention to detail that makes a difference.
> 
> ........View attachment 278097
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The APG Declaration of September 1948 cannot override the claim made by the National Council for the Jewish State four months earlier.


The APC's declaration did not encroach on any territory claimed by Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazan children give disturbing answer to a simple question


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are just hilarious today*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.
> 
> It is neither sound nor valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278085
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof for that allegation?

Of course not.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Work accident! Islamic Jihad member blows himself up ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Forensics experts looking at Israa Gharib honor killing have resigned because of PA interference in case ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Latest Gaza rocket fire shows Hamas trying to follow the Hezbollah precedent

After Nasrallah vowed to retaliate for deaths of his operatives in Syria, Hamas also hopes to establish a new formula vis-a-vis Israel in response to casualties in border clashes.





While the linked article might imply that the Hamas Islamic terrorists are trying to follow the hezbollah model, ultimately, Islamic terrorists attacks from Hezbollah are Iranian funded and directed. 

I have to think that the IDF will, at some point, need to respond to Islamic terrorist attacks from Gaza with a much wider and much more intense aerial campaign to remove the ability of Hamas to wage war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are just hilarious today*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.
> 
> It is neither sound nor valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278085
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.

When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are just hilarious today*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.
> 
> It is neither sound nor valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278085
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba
Click to expand...


You seem to be one of the few people who can’t find the Israeli border. 

Send an email to Hamas. They know where it is.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are just hilarious today*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.
> 
> It is neither sound nor valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278085
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba
Click to expand...


The demented troll, after 9 years of daily Jihadi love songs, knowing he has no real argument, deflects every conversation resorting to the same set of vulgar straw man fallacies.

Talking about Israel's borders he conveniently goes over the fact that the Jewish Nation had borders set by both their own admission and international law decades prior to 1949, as much as he hides the fact that first time Palestine's borders were defined, was in direct reference specifically to the Jewish Nation aka Israel.

Ironically, knowing nothing about the basics of history or language of the region,
he refers to an article that categorizes Jews solely as foreigners,
by an author who's a member of the largest African nomad tribe, that hold their history of invasion into the land as highest honor...

In modern times, in 1915, the Nijmat leader Hammad Pasha al-Sufi led a force of 1,500 bedouin under Turkish command in their attack on the Suez Canal. He was head of the Turkish administration in Beersheba and died in 1924. The Ghawali had nine sub-sections. The most prominent was the Satut, who in 1873, *under Sheikh Saqr ibn Dahshan Abu Sitta, had to leave their traditional land following a blood feud and sided with the Tiyaha in the war between them and the Tarabin."*

Tarabin Bedouin - Wikipedia







The flag of the 4 invading Caliphates:
Pan-Arab colors - Wikipedia


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The boundaries of the Territory subject to the Mandate were NOT borders for any Arab Palestinian claim. Arab Palestinian borders.



RoccoR said:


> You are just hilarious today*!*





P F Tinmore said:


> Do you have any proof for that allegation?
> Of course not.


*(COMMENT)*

I cannot give proof of something that did not exist to begin with.  Your demand is flawed.

........
MOST RESPECTFULLY,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, your claim is flawed.



P F Tinmore said:


> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba


*(COMMENT)*

The Israeli borders have, since the Declaration of Independence, extended to the limits of which Israel claimed sovereignty and has successfully defended that sovereignty.  It is the same → as it is for any country.

In fact, Israel has defended their sovereign territorial boundaries more times than most countries.  The legitimacy of those boundaries is NOT dependent on your _(or the Arab Paestinian)_ recognition _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, your claim is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israeli borders have, since the Declaration of Independence, extended to the limits of which Israel claimed sovereignty and has successfully defended that sovereignty.  It is the same → as it is for any country.
> 
> In fact, Israel has defended their sovereign territorial boundaries more times than most countries.  The legitimacy of those boundaries is NOT dependent on your _(or the Arab Paestinian)_ recognition _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Israeli borders have, since the Declaration of Independence, extended to the limits of which Israel claimed sovereignty and has successfully defended that sovereignty.



Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, your claim is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israeli borders have, since the Declaration of Independence, extended to the limits of which Israel claimed sovereignty and has successfully defended that sovereignty.  It is the same → as it is for any country.
> 
> In fact, Israel has defended their sovereign territorial boundaries more times than most countries.  The legitimacy of those boundaries is NOT dependent on your _(or the Arab Paestinian)_ recognition _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli borders have, since the Declaration of Independence, extended to the limits of which Israel claimed sovereignty and has successfully defended that sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


You need another link to what has been provided to you countless times?


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Occupation”-washing has often been used to defend Palestinians from the charge of widespread antisemitism and the murder of Jews. It has now become mainstream to use it to excuse Muslim-Muslim family violence.

(full article online)

“Occupation”-Washing Honor Killings


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Is this something Muslims also learned from Christianity?
Exorcism?  Another proof that Islam is still rooted in paganism ]

But then then author, Sohalia Omar, who has written for Palestinian media like Ma'an,  goes on to defend jinn as a real thing, as evil spirits that possess many women. She has witnessed Islamic exorcisms and is friends with a sheikh who has done hundreds of such procedures, which she describes.

 I attended a treatment session by Sheikh Ahmed Nimr for my neighbor in 1998. The patient does not know what is happening because she is in a complete altered state and the jinn is uttered on her tongue. ...The Sheikh goes to each patient and interviews the jinn and reads the Qurans and beats the woman with a stick to get the jinn to leave. The women here don't feel the beatings but the jinn feels it. Most of the jinn were Jews and I was amazed that even the jinn among the Jews persecuted our women. Of course, the jinn is not exorcised from women immediately and comes out only after advanced sessions of treatment and not from the first session or two. There were women who were possessed for many months until the jinn came out of them...



Yes, even jinn are Jewish - and they are irresistibly attracted to Arab women, especially Palestinian women!

Jews are that evil that even their spirits attack poor Palestinian women!

(full article online)

"Evil spirits who possess Arab women are usually Jewish" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The untold story about Yasser Arafat that explains everything


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ An ideology which borrows from another ideology where they are never at fault, it is always the fault, the doing of those they have learned to consider lesser than them ]

I've looked at the statistics of Palestinian prisoner deaths recently and showed that the number is significantly lower than what one would expect from the usual death rates among the Palestinian population outside of prison. In other words, the medical care that Palestinians receive in prison is far superior to that of Palestinians in general.

The PLO, and Hanan Ashrawi, are lying.

The fact that she is tweeting this to the UN Human Rights chief and the International Criminal Court shows that, to Palestinians, everything must be politicized and weaponized against Israel.

And look who she is defending: Bassam al-Sayeh was convicted for his involvement of the murders of Eitam and Na'ama Henkin, shot by Hamas while driving with their children.

Moreover, al-Sayeh was suffering from leukemia, bone cancer and heart problems for years before the murder of the Henkins. During his illness - his first diagnosis of cancer was in 2011 - his priority was not to keep himself alive but to kill Jews. 

Not only did Israel no mistreat him, but Israel transferred him to a civilian hospital last month as his condition worsened.


(full article online)

PLO blames Israel for a prisoner with leukemia, bone cancer and heart problems dying in Israeli prison ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Crossings Authority confiscates shipment containing fabric suspected of being intended for creation of fake IDF uniforms.

(full article online)

Attempt to smuggle 'IDF uniform' material into Gaza thwarted


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are just hilarious today*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.
> 
> It is neither sound nor valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278085
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to be one of the few people who can’t find the Israeli border.
> 
> Send an email to Hamas. They know where it is.
Click to expand...

Israel is a say so state with say so borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are just hilarious today*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> One of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> Israel never claimed any territory nor did it define any borders. That holds true for today.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians declared independence on their own territory inside their own international borders. Land and borders that were still valid in 1949 according to the Armistice Agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no validity at all to this argument.  Absolutely none.
> 
> It is neither sound nor valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278085
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.
> 
> When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to be one of the few people who can’t find the Israeli border.
> 
> Send an email to Hamas. They know where it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is a say so state with say so borders.
Click to expand...

What do you hope to accomplish with these types of meaningless claims?


----------



## Hollie

There's a good article, an opinion piece, that lays out a number of questions / scenarios for the Middle East with the eventual demise of the dictators of the West Bank and Iran. There are a number of similar articles around the web and most raise lots of alarms about the power struggles that will likely take place when the replacement dictators position for control. Especially with regard to the West Bank, it seems difficult to believe that anything less than a civil war will decide what group will eventually take a measure of control. 



Dramatic changes ahead: US election, succession of Iranian, Palestinian leaders


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There's a good article, an opinion piece, that lays out a number of questions / scenarios for the Middle East with the eventual demise of the dictators of the West Bank and Iran. There are a number of similar articles around the web and most raise lots of alarms about the power struggles that will likely take place when the replacement dictators position for control. Especially with regard to the West Bank, it seems difficult to believe that anything less than a civil war will decide what group will eventually take a measure of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic changes ahead: US election, succession of Iranian, Palestinian leaders


People who write this shit know so little

His death, however, when it happens will create a vacuum that will bring to the fore a power struggle within the PA, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and Fatah (formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement), as well as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.​
This is not true. The Palestinian constitution is written to avoid power vacuums. If Abbas leaves office for any reason, the speaker of parliament is to temporarily assume the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.

Of course the US will not allow this to happen, they will just go in and fuck it up like they always do.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I've heard you say this before.  But I guess you do not actually understand what it means as applied to this question...



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is a say so state with say so borders.


*(COMMENT)*

My first thought was just to disregard what you said _(abandon or leave someone behind in a rude way)_.

"Self-Determination"
→  the process by which a country determines its own statehood and forms its own allegiances and government...

→ "say so"
the power or act of deciding or allowing something.​
Now that I think about it, giving meaning to your idiom, I agree.  

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

On a program on official Palestinian Authority TV about young Palestinian women leaving the Gaza Strip due to the difficult financial situation, the TV host explained that young Palestinian women prefer marrying "wounded" men because they get a steady monthly salary from the PA, rather than marrying healthy university graduates who are unemployed:

















*Official PA TV host:* "The young women have actually begun to prefer young men who, let's say, are wounded or have a wound, because in the end they have a monthly salary from the [PA] Ministry of Social Affairs, from the prisoners' institution, or from the institution for the wounded. For [the women], they [the wounded] are preferable to young men who have studied at university or have no kind of [physical] problems and therefore have no source of income."
[Official PA TV, Sea Breeze, July 20, 2019]

(full article online)

Palestinian women prefer to marry wounded terrorists who receive a PA salary, rather than jobless university grads - PMW Bulletins


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is just more of your anti-American rhetoric...



EXTRACT • P F Tinmore said:


> Of course, the US will not allow this to happen, they will just go in and fuck it up like they always do.


*(COMMENT)*

Just because America is responsible for every WRONG that happens in every Arab League government in the region *(SARCASM)* does NOT mean that the Arab Palestinians _(such that they are)_ cannot follow their own Constitution.


........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a good article, an opinion piece, that lays out a number of questions / scenarios for the Middle East with the eventual demise of the dictators of the West Bank and Iran. There are a number of similar articles around the web and most raise lots of alarms about the power struggles that will likely take place when the replacement dictators position for control. Especially with regard to the West Bank, it seems difficult to believe that anything less than a civil war will decide what group will eventually take a measure of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic changes ahead: US election, succession of Iranian, Palestinian leaders
> 
> 
> 
> People who write this shit know so little
> 
> His death, however, when it happens will create a vacuum that will bring to the fore a power struggle within the PA, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and Fatah (formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement), as well as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.​
> This is not true. The Palestinian constitution is written to avoid power vacuums. If Abbas leaves office for any reason, the speaker of parliament is to temporarily assume the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.
> 
> Of course the US will not allow this to happen, they will just go in and fuck it up like they always do.
Click to expand...


Maybe it's just me but a largely lawless enclave ruled by an islamic terrorist dictatorship doesn't have much incentive to follow rule of law. 

Maybe the "Pal'istanian National Congress" will meet. 

I think what you're unwilling to address is that the competing islamic terrorist franchises have no use for rule of law. With Iran seeing an opportunity to install a Shia army in the West Bank, they will have the assistance of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, at least until those competing Shia franchises go to war against each other. 

It's just remarkable that you would propose the competing islamic terrorist franchises (especially those funded and controlled by Iran), are going to follow some irrelevant constitution.


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is. Furthermore, without a democratic process it is impossible for a people to exercise the right of self determination.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
Click to expand...

"Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?


----------



## Hollie

This is going to turn out very badly for Hamas and Gaza. I have to believe Iran is going to fund whatever Islamic terrorist franchise they can more easily manipulate with cash and ideology. Attacks aimed at Israel from Gaza will result in the inevitable Israeli retaliation. In usual fashion, those attacks from Gaza will be from areas populated by civilians. The Shia Mullocrats will gladly sacrifice the Sunni population in Gaza to serve their interests in attacking Israel. 




Prompted by Iran, Palestinian Islamic Jihad plays lead role in Gaza escalation

PIJ is challenging Hamas, which is less interested in an escalation or full-out war with Israel and more interested in reaching an arrangement to prevent an economic collapse of the Gaza Strip and avoid the risk of a popular rebellion against its Islamist regime.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
Click to expand...

Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.

What part of that confuses you?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...


You realize no one is buying into that nonsense, right?

Oh. Never mind. Rhetorical question.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...


“ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
 What part of that confuses you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...

None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...

If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
Click to expand...

The only territory they have is what Israel gave them in the Oslo debacle, and that is only theirs as long as Israel decides it should be.  The Palestinians betrayed the peace process and froze it, so what they have now is the best they will ever have, and it could quickly become a lot worse.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a good article, an opinion piece, that lays out a number of questions / scenarios for the Middle East with the eventual demise of the dictators of the West Bank and Iran. There are a number of similar articles around the web and most raise lots of alarms about the power struggles that will likely take place when the replacement dictators position for control. Especially with regard to the West Bank, it seems difficult to believe that anything less than a civil war will decide what group will eventually take a measure of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic changes ahead: US election, succession of Iranian, Palestinian leaders
> 
> 
> 
> People who write this shit know so little
> 
> His death, however, when it happens will create a vacuum that will bring to the fore a power struggle within the PA, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and Fatah (formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement), as well as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.​
> This is not true. The Palestinian constitution is written to avoid power vacuums. If Abbas leaves office for any reason, the speaker of parliament is to temporarily assume the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.
> 
> Of course the US will not allow this to happen, they will just go in and fuck it up like they always do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but a largely lawless enclave ruled by an islamic terrorist dictatorship doesn't have much incentive to follow rule of law.
> 
> Maybe the "Pal'istanian National Congress" will meet.
> 
> I think what you're unwilling to address is that the competing islamic terrorist franchises have no use for rule of law. With Iran seeing an opportunity to install a Shia army in the West Bank, they will have the assistance of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, at least until those competing Shia franchises go to war against each other.
> 
> It's just remarkable that you would propose the competing islamic terrorist franchises (especially those funded and controlled by Iran), are going to follow some irrelevant constitution.
Click to expand...


That is silly because Palestinians have always been the most secular of all Arab nations.  Much more so then religious fanatics like Israel, that actually tries to claim it is the Chosen People and that they have a right to murder in order to steal their so called Promised Land, which they never bought or paid for.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is. Furthermore, without a democratic process it is impossible for a people to exercise the right of self determination.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
Palestine was defined by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920, and the will of the people was voted on at that time, under British supervision.
All of Palestine was they legally bound to the Palestinian, including what now is illegally called Israel.
There is no legal Jewish state because the UN did not have the authority to abrogate the Treaty of Sevres.
Nor can an immigrant Jewish minority legally take sovereignty from the indigenous Moslem majority.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

Who has control over Area "C"?  


The right to self-determination has become one of the most complex issues for U.S. foreign policymakers and the international community at large. Confusion over the issue stems not so much from whether there exists a right to self-determination, which is included in many international human rights documents, but from the failure of those documents to define exactly who is entitled to claim this right—a group, people, or a nation—and what exactly the right confers. At the same time, the international system, particularly in the post–World War II era, has steadfastly defended the inviolability of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when they were determined. ​


toomuchtime_ said:


> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is.


*(COMMENT)*

Applying sovereignty to Area "C" does not alter the "land" on which you _(or anyone)_ want to belong.   You can give it any name you want, → to the ground you stand on → it does not change with the establishment of sovereignty.  If you move from the West Bank to Jordan, you are in transit between two sovereign territories.  But again, the land that you belong to does not change on the basis of your movement.  I can travel to Canada _(all things being equal)_, but that does not change the fact that I belong to the land of my home in Ohio.  IF by agreement between the US and Canada, Canada gains sovereignty over Ohio, → again the "land" I belong to → does not change.

REPORT FROM ROUNDTABLE HELD IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE’S POLICY PLANNING STAFF

*SELF-DETERMINATION
Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity, and the Right to Secession*​
Self-determination became officially sanctioned after 1945 when it was included in the United Nations Charter, though it applied to existing states, not to peoples or national groups. However, self-determination quickly evolved from a principle toa right, especially after the 1960 UN Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Peoples, when the term came to denote decolonization. Still, self-determination applied to territories and not to peoples.​


toomuchtime_ said:


> Furthermore, without a democratic process, it is impossible for people to exercise the right of self-determination.


*(COMMENT)*

Area "C" was designated in accordance with an agreement between the Israeli Government and the PalestineLiberation Organization (PLO).  At that time, both parties agreed that Area "C" would be under full Israeli civil and security control.  That means that Area "C" had never been under Arab Palestinian control.  Area "C" was taken and occupied by the Israelis while in pursuit of retreating Forces of the Arab Legion.  At that time, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

Israel did not occupy Arab Palestinian territory, but rather it occupied Jordanian.



			
				State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty said:
			
		

> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory [12]  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.[13]
> 
> The territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.[14]  Title acquired in the first category is called the original title, while in the second category is called a derivative title.  Modes of the original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription, and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> 
> (1)  Occupation
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).[15]
> 
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.[16]   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> 
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.[17]
> 
> By Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law,
> *Professor of Law*
> *Beirut Arab University*
> 
> *Faculty of Law and Political Science
> 
> Email: *
> *m.rahim@bau.edu.lb
> wrahim@ul.edu.lb
> wabdulrahim@hotmail.com;
> walidabdulrahim@gmail.com*​
> [7]  Text in 15 U.N.T.S. 295.
> 
> [8]  Text in 480 U.N.T.S. 43.
> 
> [9]  Text in 610 U.N.T.S. 205.
> 
> [10] Text in 21 I.L.M. (1982), 1261.
> 
> [11] Text in 402 U.N.T.S. 71.
> 
> [12] _See generally_ Brownlie, pp. 126-57; and Shaw, pp. 417-43.
> 
> [13] _See_ Shaw, p. 412.
> 
> [14] Bledsoe & Boczek, pp. 155-6.
> 
> [15] Bledsoe & Boczek, p. 149; and Shaw, p. 424.
> 
> [16] _See_ Shaw, pp. 424 and 432-6; Brownlie, pp. 133-6.
> 
> [17] _See_ Shaw, pp. 425-6​



This has been presented in a number of ways.   But I intentionally present this information in this form because _(like most of the views I present on this topic set)_ → from an Arab League perspective _(expressed by Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law)_.  

...........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
Click to expand...


The territory of Palestine was defined as an independent Moslem nation by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
The only thing that was not finalized was the formation of its government, and Gt. Britain was obligated to finalize that.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is. Furthermore, without a democratic process it is impossible for a people to exercise the right of self determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Palestine was defined by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920, and the will of the people was voted on at that time, under British supervision.
> All of Palestine was they legally bound to the Palestinian, including what now is illegally called Israel.
> There is no legal Jewish state because the UN did not have the authority to abrogate the Treaty of Sevres.
> Nor can an immigrant Jewish minority legally take sovereignty from the indigenous Moslem majority.
Click to expand...

lol  So you claim all legal rights come from the colonialist European countries?


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...


The UN only has authority to moderate in disputes.
The UN had absolutely NO authority to take 55% of Palestine away from 70% of the population.
Israel is completely and utterly illegal, with no standing at all.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a good article, an opinion piece, that lays out a number of questions / scenarios for the Middle East with the eventual demise of the dictators of the West Bank and Iran. There are a number of similar articles around the web and most raise lots of alarms about the power struggles that will likely take place when the replacement dictators position for control. Especially with regard to the West Bank, it seems difficult to believe that anything less than a civil war will decide what group will eventually take a measure of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic changes ahead: US election, succession of Iranian, Palestinian leaders
> 
> 
> 
> People who write this shit know so little
> 
> His death, however, when it happens will create a vacuum that will bring to the fore a power struggle within the PA, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and Fatah (formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement), as well as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.​
> This is not true. The Palestinian constitution is written to avoid power vacuums. If Abbas leaves office for any reason, the speaker of parliament is to temporarily assume the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.
> 
> Of course the US will not allow this to happen, they will just go in and fuck it up like they always do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but a largely lawless enclave ruled by an islamic terrorist dictatorship doesn't have much incentive to follow rule of law.
> 
> Maybe the "Pal'istanian National Congress" will meet.
> 
> I think what you're unwilling to address is that the competing islamic terrorist franchises have no use for rule of law. With Iran seeing an opportunity to install a Shia army in the West Bank, they will have the assistance of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, at least until those competing Shia franchises go to war against each other.
> 
> It's just remarkable that you would propose the competing islamic terrorist franchises (especially those funded and controlled by Iran), are going to follow some irrelevant constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is silly because Palestinians have always been the most secular of all Arab nations.  Much more so then religious fanatics like Israel, that actually tries to claim it is the Chosen People and that they have a right to murder in order to steal their so called Promised Land, which they never bought or paid for.
Click to expand...


That’s all very melodramatic but hardly true. Your “secular” Arabs-Moslems make frequent appeals to “Allah” as a part of their religious war against Israelis.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN only has authority to moderate in disputes.
> The UN had absolutely NO authority to take 55% of Palestine away from 70% of the population.
> Israel is completely and utterly illegal, with no standing at all.
Click to expand...


You should ‘do an islam” and wage your own personal gee-had.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
Click to expand...


Totally wrong.
The nation is the government and the people, the territory is the land mass.
Those are completely different things.
And no, citizenship is an international defintion, not one that each country dreams up on their own.
And no, Jews do NOT at all get to simply take someone elses land and call it their nation.
You have to buy the land, become the majority, and they go through due process, which Israel NEVER did.
Jews were never more than 30% of the population of Palestine and then through the illegal use of force, took it all.
Palestinians have their right to sovereignty from their being the indigenous majority through out all of history, including right now.  There are still 12 million Muslim Palestinians and only 6 million Jewish Israelis.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> The nation is the government and the people, the territory is the land mass.
> Those are completely different things.
> And no, citizenship is an international defintion, not one that each country dreams up on their own.
> And no, Jews do NOT at all get to simply take someone elses land and call it their nation.
> You have to buy the land, become the majority, and they go through due process, which Israel NEVER did.
> Jews were never more than 30% of the population of Palestine and then through the illegal use of force, took it all.
> Palestinians have their right to sovereignty from their being the indigenous majority through out all of history, including right now.  There are still 12 million Muslim Palestinians and only 6 million Jewish Israelis.
Click to expand...


“Palestinians have their right to sovereignty from their being the indigenous majority through out all of history, including right now.”

You might want to re-think that.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only territory they have is what Israel gave them in the Oslo debacle, and that is only theirs as long as Israel decides it should be.  The Palestinians betrayed the peace process and froze it, so what they have now is the best they will ever have, and it could quickly become a lot worse.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
Palestine was always the majority, is the only indigenous people, and the only actual land owners.
It is Israel that has no legal authority to exist at all.
Israel was made up out of thin air, and has nothing at all to justify its existence in any way.
Palestine earned its autonomy by helping the Allies against the Ottoman Empire in WWI.
And it is Palestine that has all the land owners, as well as the being the indigenous majority.


----------



## Rigby5

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Who has control over Area "C"?
> 
> 
> The right to self-determination has become one of the most complex issues for U.S. foreign policymakers and the international community at large. Confusion over the issue stems not so much from whether there exists a right to self-determination, which is included in many international human rights documents, but from the failure of those documents to define exactly who is entitled to claim this right—a group, people, or a nation—and what exactly the right confers. At the same time, the international system, particularly in the post–World War II era, has steadfastly defended the inviolability of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when they were determined.​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Applying sovereignty to Area "C" does not alter the "land" on which you _(or anyone)_ want to belong.   You can give it any name you want, → to the ground you stand on → it does not change with the establishment of sovereignty.  If you move from the West Bank to Jordan, you are in transit between two sovereign territories.  But again, the land that you belong to does not change on the basis of your movement.  I can travel to Canada _(all things being equal)_, but that does not change the fact that I belong to the land of my home in Ohio.  IF by agreement between the US and Canada, Canada gains sovereignty over Ohio, → again the "land" I belong to → does not change.
> 
> REPORT FROM ROUNDTABLE HELD IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE’S POLICY PLANNING STAFF
> 
> *SELF-DETERMINATION
> Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity, and the Right to Secession*​
> Self-determination became officially sanctioned after 1945 when it was included in the United Nations Charter, though it applied to existing states, not to peoples or national groups. However, self-determination quickly evolved from a principle toa right, especially after the 1960 UN Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Peoples, when the term came to denote decolonization. Still, self-determination applied to territories and not to peoples.​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, without a democratic process, it is impossible for people to exercise the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Area "C" was designated in accordance with an agreement between the Israeli Government and the PalestineLiberation Organization (PLO).  At that time, both parties agreed that Area "C" would be under full Israeli civil and security control.  That means that Area "C" had never been under Arab Palestinian control.  Area "C" was taken and occupied by the Israelis while in pursuit of retreating Forces of the Arab Legion.  At that time, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
> 
> Israel did not occupy Arab Palestinian territory, but rather it occupied Jordanian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory [12]  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.[13]
> 
> The territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.[14]  Title acquired in the first category is called the original title, while in the second category is called a derivative title.  Modes of the original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription, and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> 
> (1)  Occupation
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).[15]
> 
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.[16]   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> 
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.[17]
> 
> By Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law,
> *Professor of Law*
> *Beirut Arab University*
> 
> *Faculty of Law and Political Science*
> 
> *Email: *
> *m.rahim@bau.edu.lb*
> *wrahim@ul.edu.lb *
> *wabdulrahim@hotmail.com; *
> *walidabdulrahim@gmail.com*​
> [7]  Text in 15 U.N.T.S. 295.
> 
> [8]  Text in 480 U.N.T.S. 43.
> 
> [9]  Text in 610 U.N.T.S. 205.
> 
> [10] Text in 21 I.L.M. (1982), 1261.
> 
> [11] Text in 402 U.N.T.S. 71.
> 
> [12] _See generally_ Brownlie, pp. 126-57; and Shaw, pp. 417-43.
> 
> [13] _See_ Shaw, p. 412.
> 
> [14] Bledsoe & Boczek, pp. 155-6.
> 
> [15] Bledsoe & Boczek, p. 149; and Shaw, p. 424.
> 
> [16] _See_ Shaw, pp. 424 and 432-6; Brownlie, pp. 133-6.
> 
> [17] _See_ Shaw, pp. 425-6​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This has been presented in a number of ways.   But I intentionally present this information in this form because _(like most of the views I present on this topic set)_ → from an Arab League perspective _(expressed by Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law)_.
> 
> ...........View attachment 278409
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


That is just a lie.
In 1948 when Israel was in armed conflict with the Arab League, Israel failed to capture Jerusalem.
Clearly the entire West Bank remained Palestine.
The fact Jordan administerd this region is irrelevant.
It is not part of Israel, and nothing beyond the 1948 UN partition can ever possibly be considered part of Israel.
Annexation of land through conquest is an explicit war crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
Click to expand...

Area C is in Palestine.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is. Furthermore, without a democratic process it is impossible for a people to exercise the right of self determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Palestine was defined by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920, and the will of the people was voted on at that time, under British supervision.
> All of Palestine was they legally bound to the Palestinian, including what now is illegally called Israel.
> There is no legal Jewish state because the UN did not have the authority to abrogate the Treaty of Sevres.
> Nor can an immigrant Jewish minority legally take sovereignty from the indigenous Moslem majority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  So you claim all legal rights come from the colonialist European countries?
Click to expand...



What are you talking about?
The Treaty of Sevres was conducted with ALL parties with any interests in the region around Palestine.
The only people not represented were the Jews, because they had already pledged to not get involved in any sovereignty or governing concerns.  They disavowed any interest in any sovereignty at the Carlsbad conference.
The main party to the Treaty of Sevres was Turkey.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a good article, an opinion piece, that lays out a number of questions / scenarios for the Middle East with the eventual demise of the dictators of the West Bank and Iran. There are a number of similar articles around the web and most raise lots of alarms about the power struggles that will likely take place when the replacement dictators position for control. Especially with regard to the West Bank, it seems difficult to believe that anything less than a civil war will decide what group will eventually take a measure of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic changes ahead: US election, succession of Iranian, Palestinian leaders
> 
> 
> 
> People who write this shit know so little
> 
> His death, however, when it happens will create a vacuum that will bring to the fore a power struggle within the PA, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and Fatah (formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement), as well as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.​
> This is not true. The Palestinian constitution is written to avoid power vacuums. If Abbas leaves office for any reason, the speaker of parliament is to temporarily assume the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.
> 
> Of course the US will not allow this to happen, they will just go in and fuck it up like they always do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but a largely lawless enclave ruled by an islamic terrorist dictatorship doesn't have much incentive to follow rule of law.
> 
> Maybe the "Pal'istanian National Congress" will meet.
> 
> I think what you're unwilling to address is that the competing islamic terrorist franchises have no use for rule of law. With Iran seeing an opportunity to install a Shia army in the West Bank, they will have the assistance of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, at least until those competing Shia franchises go to war against each other.
> 
> It's just remarkable that you would propose the competing islamic terrorist franchises (especially those funded and controlled by Iran), are going to follow some irrelevant constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is silly because Palestinians have always been the most secular of all Arab nations.  Much more so then religious fanatics like Israel, that actually tries to claim it is the Chosen People and that they have a right to murder in order to steal their so called Promised Land, which they never bought or paid for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s all very melodramatic but hardly true. Your “secular” Arabs-Moslems make frequent appeals to “Allah” as a part of their religious war against Israelis.
Click to expand...


It is a lie to claim there was ever a war over religion.
That is easy to prove because the region was under Moslem/Arab rule for thousands of years, and yet no harm was done to Jews by the Moslem/Arab government.
The 1948 war was caused by Israels massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.
It is very well documented.

And by the way, if you knew anything about the subject, Allah is the Arab word for God, the same God of the Old Testament.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN only has authority to moderate in disputes.
> The UN had absolutely NO authority to take 55% of Palestine away from 70% of the population.
> Israel is completely and utterly illegal, with no standing at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should ‘do an islam” and wage your own personal gee-had.
Click to expand...


The rule of law must be upheld or else you have institutionalize crime.
And Israel is in violation of the law.
Israel has no legal justification, is not the indigenous natives, did not buy or own the land, and is not even the majority.
And failing to allow the Moslem refugees to return to their homes was a war crime.


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Who has control over Area "C"?
> 
> 
> The right to self-determination has become one of the most complex issues for U.S. foreign policymakers and the international community at large. Confusion over the issue stems not so much from whether there exists a right to self-determination, which is included in many international human rights documents, but from the failure of those documents to define exactly who is entitled to claim this right—a group, people, or a nation—and what exactly the right confers. At the same time, the international system, particularly in the post–World War II era, has steadfastly defended the inviolability of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when they were determined.​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Applying sovereignty to Area "C" does not alter the "land" on which you _(or anyone)_ want to belong.   You can give it any name you want, → to the ground you stand on → it does not change with the establishment of sovereignty.  If you move from the West Bank to Jordan, you are in transit between two sovereign territories.  But again, the land that you belong to does not change on the basis of your movement.  I can travel to Canada _(all things being equal)_, but that does not change the fact that I belong to the land of my home in Ohio.  IF by agreement between the US and Canada, Canada gains sovereignty over Ohio, → again the "land" I belong to → does not change.
> 
> REPORT FROM ROUNDTABLE HELD IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE’S POLICY PLANNING STAFF
> 
> *SELF-DETERMINATION
> Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity, and the Right to Secession*​
> Self-determination became officially sanctioned after 1945 when it was included in the United Nations Charter, though it applied to existing states, not to peoples or national groups. However, self-determination quickly evolved from a principle toa right, especially after the 1960 UN Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Peoples, when the term came to denote decolonization. Still, self-determination applied to territories and not to peoples.​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, without a democratic process, it is impossible for people to exercise the right of self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Area "C" was designated in accordance with an agreement between the Israeli Government and the PalestineLiberation Organization (PLO).  At that time, both parties agreed that Area "C" would be under full Israeli civil and security control.  That means that Area "C" had never been under Arab Palestinian control.  Area "C" was taken and occupied by the Israelis while in pursuit of retreating Forces of the Arab Legion.  At that time, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
> 
> Israel did not occupy Arab Palestinian territory, but rather it occupied Jordanian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Section 2:  Acquisition of Territory [12]  *
> 
> The international rules related to territorial sovereignty are rooted in the Roman Law provisions governing ownership and possession.  In addition, the classification of the different modes of acquiring territory is a direct descendant of the Roman rules dealing with property.[13]
> 
> The territory is the space within which the State exercises sovereign authority.  Title to territory is acquired either through the claim of land not previously owned (_terra nullius_) or through the transfer of title from one State to another.[14]  Title acquired in the first category is called the original title, while in the second category is called a derivative title.  Modes of the original acquisition of territory include occupation, prescription, and accretion.  Derivative modes include cession (voluntary or forcible), and conquest and annexation.    All these modes are dealt with in the following.
> 
> (1)  Occupation
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory not under the authority of any other State (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or abandoned by the State formerly in control (unlikely to occur).[15]
> 
> For the title acquired through occupation to be final and valid under International Law, the presence and control of a State over the concerned territory must be effective.[16]   Effectiveness requires on the part of the Claimant State two elements: an intention or will to act as sovereign, and the adequate exercise of sovereignty.  Intention may be inferred from all the facts, although sometimes it may be formally expressed in official notifications to other States.  Adequate exercise of sovereignty must be peaceful, real, and continuous.   This element of physical assumption may be manifested by an explicit or symbolic act by legislative or administrative measures affecting the claimed territory, or by treaties with other States recognizing the sovereignty of the Claimant State over the particular territory or demarcating boundaries.
> 
> Occupation was often preceded by discovery that is the realization of the existence of a particular piece of land.  In the early period of European discovery, in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, the mere realization or sighting was sufficient to constitute title to territory.  As time passed, something more was required and this took the form of symbolic act of taking possession, whether by raising of flags or by formal declarations.   By the Eighteenth Century, the effective control came to be required together with discovery to constitute title to territory.[17]
> 
> By Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law,
> *Professor of Law*
> *Beirut Arab University*
> 
> *Faculty of Law and Political Science*
> 
> *Email: *
> *m.rahim@bau.edu.lb*
> *wrahim@ul.edu.lb *
> *wabdulrahim@hotmail.com; *
> *walidabdulrahim@gmail.com*​
> [7]  Text in 15 U.N.T.S. 295.
> 
> [8]  Text in 480 U.N.T.S. 43.
> 
> [9]  Text in 610 U.N.T.S. 205.
> 
> [10] Text in 21 I.L.M. (1982), 1261.
> 
> [11] Text in 402 U.N.T.S. 71.
> 
> [12] _See generally_ Brownlie, pp. 126-57; and Shaw, pp. 417-43.
> 
> [13] _See_ Shaw, p. 412.
> 
> [14] Bledsoe & Boczek, pp. 155-6.
> 
> [15] Bledsoe & Boczek, p. 149; and Shaw, p. 424.
> 
> [16] _See_ Shaw, pp. 424 and 432-6; Brownlie, pp. 133-6.
> 
> [17] _See_ Shaw, pp. 425-6​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This has been presented in a number of ways.   But I intentionally present this information in this form because _(like most of the views I present on this topic set)_ → from an Arab League perspective _(expressed by Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law)_.
> 
> ...........View attachment 278409
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

As you point out, no one actually knows what self determination means today.  Originally, as you pointed out it simply meant the peoples fo European colonies had the right to decide if they wanted independence, but it never had any practical application, since the European colonialists left only when they thought it was in their best interests and not because of any document UN diplomats cooked up.  In any case, it has no application to the Palestinians at all, since they already have defined themselves as a people and Israel has no objection to it as long as they stay in areas A and B and do not attack Israelis.  

The application of sovereignty to an area means applying civil law to that area, so the PA's threat to apply sovereignty to area C is bizarre nonsense.  Eventually, Israel will have to apply sovereignty to area C because not doing so gives the Palestinians false hope that they may yet gain it and that encourages conflict.  

Israel did not capture Judea and Samaria while pursuing the Arab Legion.  Jordan did not initially join Egypt and Syria in attacking Israel, but Naser, who didn't seem to be getting accurate reports from his generals, demanded Jordan open another front, promising that the Egyption air force would give them cover, but of course, Israel had already destroyed most of the Egyptian air force.  The Jordanian forces suffered extremely heavy losses and fled, leaving Jerusalem to the Israelis.  The IDF did not pursue them, but set up a  perimeter around Jerusalem, which Israel intended to keep, and assumed the Jordanian forces were still in Samaria.  The next morning, Israeli scouts reported all Jordanian forces had fled across the river, and Israel set up a defensive perimeter along the river.  Israel's intention was at the time to keep Jerusalem but trade the rest of Judea and Samaria for peace with Jordan, but Jordan joined the other Arab nations in refusing to talk peace with Israel.  

As for Jordan having sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, only two countries in the world recognized Jordan's annexation of the territory, Pakistan and the UK.  In fact, the other Arab nations were incensed by it and Egypt threatened to go to war with Jordan if it did not retract its annexation.  The UK sent troops to Jordan to defend it.  Jordan clearly had no greater claim to Judea and Samaria than Israel.

People talk about rights of nations or of peoples, but the fact is no nation or people has any rights it can't defend.  The Palestinians had the  opportunity to define their rights in negotiations with Israel, but they chose the second intifada instead, and since that time their leadership has fragmented and there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so now they have rights as individuals but they have no rights as a nation or a people and won't unless the find a way to unify and negotiate with Israel in good faith.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The territory of Palestine was defined as an independent Moslem nation by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
> The only thing that was not finalized was the formation of its government, and Gt. Britain was obligated to finalize that.
Click to expand...

lol  So you do think all rights should be defined by European colonialists.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
Click to expand...

Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who could apply sovereignty for the Palestinians?  Clearly, the PA can't since it does not represent the Palestinians people and clearly the PLO can't since it is not a government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right of self determination has nothing to do with declaring whatever land you want belongs to you, which is what the PA applying sovereignty to area C is. Furthermore, without a democratic process it is impossible for a people to exercise the right of self determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Palestine was defined by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920, and the will of the people was voted on at that time, under British supervision.
> All of Palestine was they legally bound to the Palestinian, including what now is illegally called Israel.
> There is no legal Jewish state because the UN did not have the authority to abrogate the Treaty of Sevres.
> Nor can an immigrant Jewish minority legally take sovereignty from the indigenous Moslem majority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  So you claim all legal rights come from the colonialist European countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> The Treaty of Sevres was conducted with ALL parties with any interests in the region around Palestine.
> The only people not represented were the Jews, because they had already pledged to not get involved in any sovereignty or governing concerns.  They disavowed any interest in any sovereignty at the Carlsbad conference.
> The main party to the Treaty of Sevres was Turkey.
Click to expand...

Not true.  The treaty was signed by the UK, France, Italy, rejected by Greece and a representative of the the Ottoman empire was present but did not have a vote.

Treaty of Sèvres - Wikipedia

You are not fooling anyone with your lies and nonsense.  Disabuse yourself of the idea you are being clever.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
Click to expand...

So says Israel.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says Israel.
Click to expand...

So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.
Click to expand...

The facts according to Israel.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> 
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts according to Israel.
Click to expand...

The facts that anyone can see.  The leadership is fragmented, the people identify more with their clans than the idea of having a state, and the only thing that gives them any sense of cohesiveness is hatred of Jews.  They are not even a people, let alone a state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts according to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts that anyone can see.  The leadership is fragmented, the people identify more with their clans than the idea of having a state, and the only thing that gives them any sense of cohesiveness is hatred of Jews.  They are not even a people, let alone a state.
Click to expand...

More Israeli BS.

Do you have any proof for your allegation?

Of course not.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
> 
> 
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts according to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts that anyone can see.  The leadership is fragmented, the people identify more with their clans than the idea of having a state, and the only thing that gives them any sense of cohesiveness is hatred of Jews.  They are not even a people, let alone a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli BS.
> 
> Do you have any proof for your allegation?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...

That's like asking if water is wet.  Palestine is a hoax created by ambitious Arab leaders to justify their power grabs, but the people have to be bullied into pretending they believe it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts according to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts that anyone can see.  The leadership is fragmented, the people identify more with their clans than the idea of having a state, and the only thing that gives them any sense of cohesiveness is hatred of Jews.  They are not even a people, let alone a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli BS.
> 
> Do you have any proof for your allegation?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's like asking if water is wet.  Palestine is a hoax created by ambitious Arab leaders to justify their power grabs, but the people have to be bullied into pretending they believe it.
Click to expand...

More unsubstantiated Israeli allegations.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Under the Right of Self-Determination, even a Provisional Government can make a claim.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government.  All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> It does not mean that it is going to work out for them.  In the case of the All Palestine Government, they tried to claim a territory already declared independent by the National Council for the Jewish State _(recognized as the Provisional Council Government)_.  The Arab League attempted to take it by force.  The Hashemite Kingdom took a piece and the Egyptian Government took a piece.  The All Palestine Government got nothing.
> 
> ........View attachment 277999
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no absolute requirement for it to be a government. All it has to be is a "people" of some definable category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
Click to expand...


Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are a US citizen, you are a citizen of the nation, not the territory, and your citizenship is defined by the laws of the US, not by any international boundaries.  The US is a nation because the Americans made it a nation, just as Israel is a nation because the Jews made it a nation.  Those Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens are citizens of the PA as defined by treaty with Israel and nothing else, and none of this carries any Palestinian rights to sovereignty or any rights at all in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is only a state of mind, not an actual state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So says Israel.
Click to expand...


Can You quote that from an official statement of an Israeli government?
Not only Israel can say and define that, but actually apply as the sole sovereign of the land.

Does Your opinion, or anything You say apply and to what extent?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
Click to expand...


If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.

But then again that's just You know, his opinion.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN only has authority to moderate in disputes.
> The UN had absolutely NO authority to take 55% of Palestine away from 70% of the population.
> Israel is completely and utterly illegal, with no standing at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should ‘do an islam” and wage your own personal gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The rule of law must be upheld or else you have institutionalize crime.
> And Israel is in violation of the law.
> Israel has no legal justification, is not the indigenous natives, did not buy or own the land, and is not even the majority.
> And failing to allow the Moslem refugees to return to their homes was a war crime.
Click to expand...


I find it just a bit ironic that you’re attempting to lecture anyone on “rule of law” when Islamic terrorist franchises operate under the quasi-governments in Gaza and the West Bank.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toomuchtime_, et al,

We are very close in terms of an agreement.  



toomuchtime_ said:


> The application of sovereignty to an area means applying civil law to that area, so the PA's threat to apply sovereignty to area C is bizarre nonsense.  Eventually, Israel will have to apply sovereignty to area C because not doing so gives the Palestinians false hope that they may yet gain it and that encourages conflict.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, I'm not sure that it is an eventuality.  Militarily _(Six-Day War)_ → the retention of selected ground within the territory will be necessary in order to provide defensible borders.
(*JCSM-373-67 29 JUN 1967*)



toomuchtime_ said:


> Israel did not capture Judea and Samaria while pursuing the Arab Legion.  Jordan did not initially join Egypt and Syria in attacking Israel, but Naser, who didn't seem to be getting accurate reports from his generals, demanded Jordan open another front, promising that the Egyptian air force would give them cover, but of course, Israel had already destroyed most of the Egyptian air force.  The Jordanian forces suffered extremely heavy losses and fled, leaving Jerusalem to the Israelis.  The IDF did not pursue them but set up a  perimeter around Jerusalem, which Israel intended to keep, and assumed the Jordanian forces were still in Samaria.  The next morning, Israeli scouts reported all Jordanian forces had fled across the river, and Israel set up a defensive perimeter along the river.  Israel's intention was at the time to keep Jerusalem but trade the rest of Judea and Samaria for peace with Jordan, but Jordan joined the other Arab nations in refusing to talk peace with Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Up to this point, we agree.  I won't quibble over military perceptions and presentation.  Every smart combat force sets up a defensive perimeter while stopped under combat conditions.  And a "Reconnaissance in Force" → looking forward of the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) → may be expressed

The Jordanians _(in my opinion)_ used the 1948 War to gain territorial advantages _(including Jerusalem)_.  The King (Jordan) wanted to oversee Jerusalem in the same way his father _(Hussein ibn Ali al-Hashimi, the Sharif and Emir of the Hejaz)_ oversaw Mecca.   That status brought King of Jordan's father serious prestige as the King of Hejaz.  It was a status that the King of Jordan wanted to emulate. 



toomuchtime_ said:


> As for Jordan having sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, only two countries in the world recognized Jordan's annexation of the territory, Pakistan and the UK.  In fact, the other Arab nations were incensed by it and Egypt threatened to go to war with Jordan if it did not retract its annexation.  The UK sent troops to Jordan to defend it.  Jordan clearly had no greater claim to Judea and Samaria than Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

We agree, that Jordan had no claim.  But the validity of a claim is NOT always the key to averting difficulties by conflict.

And, it is my impression that if there were only two Arabs in the Middle East and North African (MENA) Region, they would start a fight between themselves.

The precedent under International Law comes from Article 3 _(political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other state)_, Convention on Rights and Duties of States (1933).  In April 1950, the Jordanian parliament _(Arab Palestinian of the West Bank were equally represented)_ convened, and within the month, the West Bank was annexed.  The procedure did not need international approval.

The only reason that the other regional powers were "incensed" is that they didn't think of it first.



toomuchtime_ said:


> People talk about the rights of nations or of peoples, but the fact is no nation or people has any rights it can't defend.  The Palestinians had the  opportunity to define their rights in negotiations with Israel, but they chose the second intifada instead, and since that time their leadership has fragmented and there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so now they have rights as individuals but they have no rights as a nation or a people and won't unless they find a way to unify and negotiate with Israel in good faith.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, we agree.  All nations have a need to defend their independence.

I am not sure that culturally, the Arab Palestinians have an understanding concerning the advantages of a "negotiation" → or → the "negotiated outcome."

..........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ rylah, et al,

There are some interpretations that are made capriciously that will NOT perpetually remain the same.



EXCERPT • rylah said:


> Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation,


*(COMMENT)*

Will this is not truly accurate.

The intended 1920 San Remo boundaries _(__within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers)_ were NOT exclusive to the Jewish "Nation."  Within the San Remo meaning, it was that the Jewish National Home, would be located somewhere within the boundaries _(from the western frontier of Iraq to the Mediterranean Sea)_. 



EXCERPT • rylah said:


> his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.


*(COMMENT)*

Yeah, that is an interpretation that has no leg to sand on.  There is no cause to “stand” before the court and advocate to support the idea that the 19th, 20th, and 21st Century "Jewish Immigrant" / "Israeli Citizen" had such a far-reaching claim.   The Arab Palestinians make a similar claim on a completely different set of logic.

The longer the conflict drags on, the more the reasons for the conflict become irrelevant and the more difficult the aspects of the conflict become to explain.  

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are citizens of a territory defined by international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.


No wonder you are confused.

The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
Click to expand...


What territory is this "Pal'istanian" territory? 

If it is illegal to acquire territory by force, what is this Islamist border gee-had all about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What territory is this "Pal'istanian" territory?
> 
> If it is illegal to acquire territory by force, what is this Islamist border gee-had all about?
Click to expand...

Palestine's International borders are with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What territory is this "Pal'istanian" territory?
> 
> If it is illegal to acquire territory by force, what is this Islamist border gee-had all about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine's International borders are with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
Click to expand...

You're a bit confused about Pal'istanian borders. What territory do Pal'istanians exercise sovereign control over?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear.  Gaza yutes are goin' rouge. 

An opportune moment for Iran to step in and fuel the fire of gee-had.

Iran also benefits from dead Sunni wannabes as the Sunni view Shia Islam as a heretical sect.


*
Israel Believes Hamas Is Losing Control Over Gaza Youth
*
The younger generation is frustrated with how the organization is reining in the weekly March of Return demonstrations, and are abandoning Hamas for rogue groups.

Israel believes Hamas is losing control over Gaza youth


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What territory is this "Pal'istanian" territory?
> 
> If it is illegal to acquire territory by force, what is this Islamist border gee-had all about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine's International borders are with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a bit confused about Pal'istanian borders. What territory do Pal'istanians exercise sovereign control over?
Click to expand...

Palestine is occupied. Occupations cannot acquire territory or sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Oh, dear.  Gaza yutes are goin' rouge.
> 
> An opportune moment for Iran to step in and fuel the fire of gee-had.
> 
> Iran also benefits from dead Sunni wannabes as the Sunni view Shia Islam as a heretical sect.
> 
> 
> *
> Israel Believes Hamas Is Losing Control Over Gaza Youth
> *
> The younger generation is frustrated with how the organization is reining in the weekly March of Return demonstrations, and are abandoning Hamas for rogue groups.
> 
> Israel believes Hamas is losing control over Gaza youth


Indeed, Fatah, the PA, and Hamas are growing more and more irrelevant to the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, dear.  Gaza yutes are goin' rouge.
> 
> An opportune moment for Iran to step in and fuel the fire of gee-had.
> 
> Iran also benefits from dead Sunni wannabes as the Sunni view Shia Islam as a heretical sect.
> 
> 
> *
> Israel Believes Hamas Is Losing Control Over Gaza Youth
> *
> The younger generation is frustrated with how the organization is reining in the weekly March of Return demonstrations, and are abandoning Hamas for rogue groups.
> 
> Israel believes Hamas is losing control over Gaza youth
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Fatah, the PA, and Hamas are growing more and more irrelevant to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the largely lawless tribal areas (mini-caliphates), of Fatah, the PA, and Hamas are becoming zipcodes of Tehran. 

Indeed, get up to speed on Shia eschatology so you're not left behind.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What territory is this "Pal'istanian" territory?
> 
> If it is illegal to acquire territory by force, what is this Islamist border gee-had all about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine's International borders are with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a bit confused about Pal'istanian borders. What territory do Pal'istanians exercise sovereign control over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is occupied. Occupations cannot acquire territory or sovereignty.
Click to expand...


What sovereign territory of Pal'istan is occupied? Occupations cannot acquire territory or sovereignty.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says everyone who pays attention to the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> The facts according to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts that anyone can see.  The leadership is fragmented, the people identify more with their clans than the idea of having a state, and the only thing that gives them any sense of cohesiveness is hatred of Jews.  They are not even a people, let alone a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli BS.
> 
> Do you have any proof for your allegation?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's like asking if water is wet.  Palestine is a hoax created by ambitious Arab leaders to justify their power grabs, but the people have to be bullied into pretending they believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated Israeli allegations.
Click to expand...

You can dance and you can spin but you can't hide from the truth that the whole idea of "Palestine" is just a hoax used by ambitious Arab leaders to try to grab power.  The Arab nations, themselves, never took the idea seriously and only used it as a  ploy to try to destroy Israel and grab the land for themselves.  If the Arabs had taken the idea of a Palestinians state seriously, if the so called Palestinians had taken it seriously, Jordan never would have annexed Judea and Samaria and the so called Palestinians would have raged against the annexation themselves.  The only thing that unites the so called Palestinians is hatred of Jews.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
Click to expand...

Silly stuff.  They abandoned any control over their own fate with the second intifada.  The only strength they ever had was in negotiations with Israel, and having abandoned that they are powerless to move events.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Uhhh, WRONG_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's International borders are with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.


*(COMMENT)*

Palestine (whatever you mean by that, has NO borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.  

And before you ask, I'm not going to repeat the links that have been given to you so many times before.  But what I would like is for you to give me the link to a treaty between "Palestine" _(again whatever you mean by that)_ and any of the four.  

Remembering, the Government of Palestine was the UK, not Arab Palestinian.  The Arab Palestinians never created a country.  The Israelis gave then Gaza and the West Bank is divided into four Areas _(A, B, C, and Jerusalem)_.  

The Arab Palestinians are really failures at being failures; in that, they never even tried. 

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Silly stuff.  They abandoned any control over their own fate with the second intifada.  The only strength they ever had was in negotiations with Israel, and having abandoned that they are powerless to move events.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Uhhh, WRONG_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine's International borders are with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestine (whatever you mean by that, has NO borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
> 
> And before you ask, I'm not going to repeat the links that have been given to you so many times before.  But what I would like is for you to give me the link to a treaty between "Palestine" _(again whatever you mean by that)_ and any of the four.
> 
> Remembering, the Government of Palestine was the UK, not Arab Palestinian.  The Arab Palestinians never created a country.  The Israelis gave then Gaza and the West Bank is divided into four Areas _(A, B, C, and Jerusalem)_.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are really failures at being failures; in that, they never even tried.
> 
> ........View attachment 278481
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.

Now how about those borders?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant. Given that Palestine's borders were legally defined exclusively in reference to the Jewish Nation, his judgment supports the application of Israel's sovereignty on both  banks of the river, or at the least on all of its western bank aka "from the river to the sea" solely into the hands of Israel given the choice, even though he doesn't understand the repercussions of such statements or intended the opposite outcome.
> 
> But then again that's just You know, his opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If according to his opinion Palestinians have a right to not divide any territory, then it means no territory divided for an Arab state stands that judgement to a certain extent of the judgement, if applied by decision of the claimant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No wonder you are confused.
> 
> The Palestinians cannot be required, or forced, to divide their territory if they chose not to. And, it is illegal to acquire any of their territory by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Silly stuff.  They abandoned any control over their own fate with the second intifada.  The only strength they ever had was in negotiations with Israel, and having abandoned that they are powerless to move events.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

lol   You need to be linked to a brain.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, here we go (again).



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?


*(COMMENT)*

◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​
◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​
◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”

◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​
Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???



........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I noticed right away that Lebanon, Egypt, Golan, etc. are spelled differently than Palestine. Where I come from, that's called "a clue".


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...


Palestine doesn’t have the authority to claim Israel’s borders

Abbas “ All of Israel is Arab Palestine”
 He apparently considers May 14, 1948 and “ International Law” invalid


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine doesn’t have the authority to claim Israel’s borders
> 
> Abbas “ All of Israel is Arab Palestine”
> He apparently considers May 14, 1948 and “ International Law” invalid
Click to expand...

What international law are you talking about?

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Citizens of a territory"?  Are you writing a new dictionary?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Yugoslavia.  Czechoslovakia.  USSR.  India.  Ottoman Empire.  Sudan.  You can't HAVE self-determination for peoples without dividing territory.  It would make it impossible to achieve.  How can the Palestinians have self-determination without dividing them from the self-determination of the Syrians and the Jordanians?  

Its utterly ridiculous for you to keep claiming this not existent "legal premise" that territory can not be divided.  Of course it can.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.



No we haven't ducked the question.  Again...Israel has the authority to claim borders because she is a STATE.  She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.  One of the most important qualifications for being a state is the ability to create treaties with other states.  Such as the treaties Israel has with Jordan and Egypt. 

The reason "Palestine" (whatever you mean by that) does not have borders is that it currently does not meet the criteria for being a state.  Until such time as it does, it can not, by definition, have borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am a citizen of the US. A territory defined by international borders.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yugoslavia.  Czechoslovakia.  USSR.  India.  Ottoman Empire.  Sudan.  You can't HAVE self-determination for peoples without dividing territory.  It would make it impossible to achieve.  How can the Palestinians have self-determination without dividing them from the self-determination of the Syrians and the Jordanians?
> 
> Its utterly ridiculous for you to keep claiming this not existent "legal premise" that territory can not be divided.  Of course it can.
Click to expand...

No link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ International Borders” that you claim Israel never had because the U.N. did not have the “ authority to do so” were defined by the U. N. And we’re not accepted by the Arabs
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> None of it. The Palestinians have the right not to divide their territory. Nobody else has the right to divide it for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Division of territory based on self-determination of peoples is not only legal, it’s normal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yugoslavia.  Czechoslovakia.  USSR.  India.  Ottoman Empire.  Sudan.  You can't HAVE self-determination for peoples without dividing territory.  It would make it impossible to achieve.  How can the Palestinians have self-determination without dividing them from the self-determination of the Syrians and the Jordanians?
> 
> Its utterly ridiculous for you to keep claiming this not existent "legal premise" that territory can not be divided.  Of course it can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No link?
Click to expand...


You need a link to learn that the former territories of Yugoslavia, etc were, in point of fact, divided?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No we haven't ducked the question.  Again...Israel has the authority to claim borders because she is a STATE.  She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.  One of the most important qualifications for being a state is the ability to create treaties with other states.  Such as the treaties Israel has with Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> The reason "Palestine" (whatever you mean by that) does not have borders is that it currently does not meet the criteria for being a state.  Until such time as it does, it can not, by definition, have borders.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.


Indeed, what are those requirements?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...

Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Israel cannot get borders without treaty.

Where is it?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel cannot get borders without treaty.
> 
> Where is it?
Click to expand...


Indeed, Israel has treaties with neighboring countries. Can you identify them?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries then find them on the map.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries then find them on the map.
Click to expand...


That's the same cut and paste map you have dumped multiple times in multiple threads. 

What do you think the map represents?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Now how about those borders?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries then find them on the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same cut and paste map you have dumped multiple times in multiple threads.
> 
> What do you think the map represents?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here we go (again).
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Jordan:  • Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 1. The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​◈  Egypt:  • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •  Article II
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel* is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine.​◈  Lebanon:  • Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General • II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460)
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the* international boundary between Israel and Lebanon* was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> ◈  Syria:  • 14 December 1981 | Israel Annexes Former Syrian Territory of Golan Heights • Golan Heights Law​Does,, w,hatever you call "Palestine,"  even remotely like this???
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 278499
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries then find them on the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same cut and paste map you have dumped multiple times in multiple threads.
> 
> What do you think the map represents?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...


The map is dated 1956. I'd have to check my calendar but I think 1948 came before 1956 and a map entitled "Plan......."

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No we haven't ducked the question.  Again...Israel has the authority to claim borders because she is a STATE.  She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.  One of the most important qualifications for being a state is the ability to create treaties with other states.  Such as the treaties Israel has with Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> The reason "Palestine" (whatever you mean by that) does not have borders is that it currently does not meet the criteria for being a state.  Until such time as it does, it can not, by definition, have borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, what are those requirements?
Click to expand...


Oh, come on now, you know these as well as I do: a government, a defined territory, a population and the ability to enter into formal agreements with other states.  

Yeah, yeah, you are going to argue that Israel does not have the necessary "defined territory".  But you apply some ridiculous notions about what "defined territory" means so you can claim Israel doesn't have it.

International boundaries follow the previous boundaries in cases where there is a transfer of nationality or a division of territory occurs.  The new nation therefore has the same boundaries as the old.
International treaties, such as the Mandate for Palestine, can delineate or form boundaries. 
International treaties between states determine boundaries between states.
States can abandon territory in a number of ways, such as removing actual sovereign control of a specific territory, creating a new boundary unilaterally, or through treaties with other states, including nascent states, creating a new boundary by mutual agreement.  
Israel meets absolutely every one of these criteria.  Without question.

Your imaginary "State of Palestine" meets none.  It doesn't even come close until somewhere between 1988 and 1994, and arguably even now.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries then find them on the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same cut and paste map you have dumped multiple times in multiple threads.
> 
> What do you think the map represents?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The map is dated 1956. I'd have to check my calendar but I think 1948 came before 1956 and a map entitled "Plan......."
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Now you are obfuscating.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries then find them on the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the same cut and paste map you have dumped multiple times in multiple threads.
> 
> What do you think the map represents?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The map is dated 1956. I'd have to check my calendar but I think 1948 came before 1956 and a map entitled "Plan......."
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you are obfuscating.
Click to expand...

Why? 

It's a map you cut and pasted and you don't understand what the map represents?

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.



Oh, you are SO close!  Yes, it shows the international borders which were passed down, in accordance with customary law, during a transfer of nationality or statehood.  And what new state was formed there in 1948?  Israel. Only Israel. Thank you for confirming Israel's borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you are SO close!  Yes, it shows the international borders which were passed down, in accordance with customary law, during a transfer of nationality or statehood.  And what new state was formed there in 1948?  Israel. Only Israel. Thank you for confirming Israel's borders.
Click to expand...

Israel claims those borders?

Link?

So then, why do all maps of Israel show those fake border armistice lines?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?




You want a link to the map you literally just posted?  Are you not well today?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you are SO close!  Yes, it shows the international borders which were passed down, in accordance with customary law, during a transfer of nationality or statehood.  And what new state was formed there in 1948?  Israel. Only Israel. Thank you for confirming Israel's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claims those borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> So then, why do all maps of Israel show those fake border armistice lines?
Click to expand...


Are You sure the Golan Heights are included in those lines as shown in Israeli maps?

Yasser Arafat once talked about the east side of the river and then about a singe Arab state from Morocco to Yemen, that's about how much functional and attached to reality these guys were, 
and still to this day.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So then, why do all maps of Israel show those fake border armistice lines?



Well, that is an interesting question.  You and I both know that any division of Israel/Palestine is fake.  Nothing has happened to create internal borders.  We agree.

The reason the idea of these borders persists is the continued assumption that Israel will cede territory for the creation of another Arab Palestinian state or two.  The assumption is that this is necessary both to protect Israel and to bring about self-determination for another Arab peoples.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just what it says. Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you are SO close!  Yes, it shows the international borders which were passed down, in accordance with customary law, during a transfer of nationality or statehood.  And what new state was formed there in 1948?  Israel. Only Israel. Thank you for confirming Israel's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claims those borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> So then, why do all maps of Israel show those fake border armistice lines?
Click to expand...


It's a map you posted. You dont understand what you posted?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

Hamas not feelin’ the love.

*Saudi authorities arrest over 60 Hamas members, supporters*

https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/10/saudi-authorities-arrest-over-60-hamas-members-supporters/

Saudi Arabia outlaws membership in organizations suspecting of helping Hamas launder money, issues orders to confiscate money and assets of Hamas supporters and operatives.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Self-Determination, with the coordination and approval of the UN Palestine Commission.

What entity is represented by what you call "Palestine's Borders?"  Certainly not an entity having the authority of an Arab Palestinians.

.........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> No link?


*(THE LINK)*

*CHAPTER I: PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES*
 
*Article 1*
The Purposes of the United Nations are:

To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
*To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;*
To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
*Article 2*
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
*All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.*
All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what are those requirements?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Recognition is not a requirement for the establishment of a state.


......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



Hollie said:


> Israel never claimed palestine's borders. What does that mean. What borders did any soverign "country of Pal'istan" have?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

Tracing Border Lines is nothing even to challenge.  It is the same as drawing new lines of sovereignty that just happen to correspond to previous demarcations of former territories.

......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have posted this many times but you have always ducked the question about where Israel got the authority to claim Palestine's borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No we haven't ducked the question.  Again...Israel has the authority to claim borders because she is a STATE.  She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.  One of the most important qualifications for being a state is the ability to create treaties with other states.  Such as the treaties Israel has with Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> The reason "Palestine" (whatever you mean by that) does not have borders is that it currently does not meet the criteria for being a state.  Until such time as it does, it can not, by definition, have borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, what are those requirements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, come on now, you know these as well as I do: a government, a defined territory, a population and the ability to enter into formal agreements with other states.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, you are going to argue that Israel does not have the necessary "defined territory".  But you apply some ridiculous notions about what "defined territory" means so you can claim Israel doesn't have it.
> 
> International boundaries follow the previous boundaries in cases where there is a transfer of nationality or a division of territory occurs.  The new nation therefore has the same boundaries as the old.
> International treaties, such as the Mandate for Palestine, can delineate or form boundaries.
> International treaties between states determine boundaries between states.
> States can abandon territory in a number of ways, such as removing actual sovereign control of a specific territory, creating a new boundary unilaterally, or through treaties with other states, including nascent states, creating a new boundary by mutual agreement.
> Israel meets absolutely every one of these criteria.  Without question.
> 
> Your imaginary "State of Palestine" meets none.  It doesn't even come close until somewhere between 1988 and 1994, and arguably even now.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> International boundaries follow the previous boundaries in cases where there is a transfer of nationality


When did this transfer happen?

Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what are those requirements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition is not a requirement for the establishment of a state.
> 
> 
> .........View attachment 278573
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, think Palestine 1948.

BTW, Palestine was recognized by several other states.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE LINK)*
> 
> *CHAPTER I: PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES*
> 
> *Article 1*
> The Purposes of the United Nations are:
> 
> To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
> *To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;*
> To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
> To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
> *Article 2*
> The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> 
> The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
> All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
> All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
> *All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.*
> All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
> The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
> 
> .........View attachment 278572
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Good post. It would be great if the UN would live up to its stated ideals.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why do all maps of Israel show those fake border armistice lines?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is an interesting question.  You and I both know that any division of Israel/Palestine is fake.  Nothing has happened to create internal borders.  We agree.
> 
> The reason the idea of these borders persists is the continued assumption that Israel will cede territory for the creation of another Arab Palestinian state or two.  The assumption is that this is necessary both to protect Israel and to bring about self-determination for another Arab peoples.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The reason the idea of these borders persists is the continued assumption that Israel will cede territory for the creation of another Arab Palestinian state or two.


Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When did this transfer happen?
> 
> Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?



Well, the interesting thing, Tinmore, is that you and I agree on a lot.  And, in fact, if you would only lose the ridiculous notion that somehow rights don't apply to the Jewish people, we could get on with actual solutions to the conflict.  

In order for sovereignty to transfer from one state to another two things have to happen, the existing sovereign has to part with their sovereignty and another sovereign has to take up sovereignty.  (While an existing sovereign can unilaterally abandon territory, this does not create a new sovereign, it creates the condition of _terra nullius)
_
Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne takes care of the first part of our transfer.  No matter how much you wish it so, and no matter how many times you repeat yourself, it does NOT take care of both parts. Why?  Because Turkey does not cede the territory to a specific state; Turkey merely abandons the territory  (_"renounces"_ is the language used in the Article).  We can fact-check this by seeing whether or not another state is mentioned as being the party to whom the territory is transferred and whether that state is a signatory to the treaty.  For example, Article 15 reads:  _Turkey renounces *in favor of Italy* all rights and title to the following islands ...  _Since both Turkey and Italy are signatories, this is a mutual agreement made law by treaty.  Article 16, which concerns the territory of Israel/Palestine does not contain any such designation of rights and title.  Why?  Because there was no legal entity with whom to make such an agreement.  So there is no transfer of rights, only an abandoning of rights.  

The Allied Powers and Britain had no rights or title to the territory in question. We can fact-check that and see if Article 16 gives rights and title to Britain, or any of the other Allied Powers who were signatories to the treaty.  Nope.  It does not.  Again, there is no transfer of rights, only an abandoning of rights by Turkey.  

With me so far?


----------



## Shusha

Alright, so now we have a territory which has been abandoned by the previous sovereign.  But we don't quite have _terra nullius_.  Why?  Because a new concept was developing around that time in international law and that was the concept of self-determination of peoples.

This new concept, expressed in Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, said that territory could be held in trust by an _"advanced nation"_ until such time as a peoples existence as independent nations can be recognized and they are able to stand alone.

Rather than _terra nullius_, then, the Mandate for Palestine created a trusteeship with Britain forming a temporary government, with full rights, but no title to the territory.  This was the legal status of the territory of Israel/Palestine from 1923 to 1948.

Britain did eventually abandon the trusteeship, creating the condition of _terra nullius._

Still with me?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did this transfer happen?
> 
> Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the interesting thing, Tinmore, is that you and I agree on a lot.  And, in fact, if you would only lose the ridiculous notion that somehow rights don't apply to the Jewish people, we could get on with actual solutions to the conflict.
> 
> In order for sovereignty to transfer from one state to another two things have to happen, the existing sovereign has to part with their sovereignty and another sovereign has to take up sovereignty.  (While an existing sovereign can unilaterally abandon territory, this does not create a new sovereign, it creates the condition of _terra nullius)
> _
> Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne takes care of the first part of our transfer.  No matter how much you wish it so, and no matter how many times you repeat yourself, it does NOT take care of both parts. Why?  Because Turkey does not cede the territory to a specific state; Turkey merely abandons the territory  (_"renounces"_ is the language used in the Article).  We can fact-check this by seeing whether or not another state is mentioned as being the party to whom the territory is transferred and whether that state is a signatory to the treaty.  For example, Article 15 reads:  _Turkey renounces *in favor of Italy* all rights and title to the following islands ...  _Since both Turkey and Italy are signatories, this is a mutual agreement made law by treaty.  Article 16, which concerns the territory of Israel/Palestine does not contain any such designation of rights and title.  Why?  Because there was no legal entity with whom to make such an agreement.  So there is no transfer of rights, only an abandoning of rights.
> 
> The Allied Powers and Britain had no rights or title to the territory in question. We can fact-check that and see if Article 16 gives rights and title to Britain, or any of the other Allied Powers who were signatories to the treaty.  Nope.  It does not.  Again, there is no transfer of rights, only an abandoning of rights by Turkey.
> 
> With me so far?
Click to expand...

That sounds good, but in fact, the way sovereignty is usually transferred is by military force and the passage of time.


----------



## Shusha

As a reminder, the conditions required for transfer of sovereignty require two parts: the abandonment of sovereignty and the taking-up of sovereignty. 

In 1948, the State of Israel declared independence (sovereignty).  Israel had a government, a legally defined territory (inherited from the previous sovereign), a population (citizens) and, by 1949, had the ability to create treaties with other states (evidenced, by actual treaties with other states).

Israel had taken up sovereignty. 

At no time prior to 1988 (ish) did anyone other than Israel assert or take-up sovereignty in the region.  Why?  No government.  No control of territory.  No population.  No recognition.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?



Illegal military conquest is defined by a State actor using military action to invade, occupy or take control of territory not under its sovereignty.  The only such States were Jordan and Egypt.  (Others tried, but did not succeed in taking control of territory outside their own sovereignty).  

Self-determination, by definition, is not military conquest.


----------



## Shusha

toomuchtime_ said:


> That sounds good, but in fact, the way sovereignty is usually transferred is by military force and the passage of time.



I disagree most strongly.  Modern customary law no longer accepts external military force or conquest as legitimate means of transferring territory from one State to another.  Sovereignty rests with treaties and mutual agreements, often as a result of recognition of self-determination of a specific peoples by the involved parties and the international communities.


----------



## Shusha

Btw, please do not read this as me dismissing the RIGHTS of Arab Palestinians to take up sovereignty.  I am firmly in agreement that they have that right, in principle.  But it requires actual acts of creating sovereignty.  The right to sovereignty and the practical fact of having sovereignty are two very different things.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds good, but in fact, the way sovereignty is usually transferred is by military force and the passage of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree most strongly.  Modern customary law no longer accepts external military force or conquest as legitimate means of transferring territory from one State to another.  Sovereignty rests with treaties and mutual agreements, often as a result of recognition of self-determination of a specific peoples by the involved parties and the international communities.
Click to expand...

Customary law means the law has been applied regularly but I can't think of when such a law has had any effect, can you?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> Btw, please do not read this as me dismissing the RIGHTS of Arab Palestinians to take up sovereignty.  I am firmly in agreement that they have that right, in principle.  But it requires actual acts of creating sovereignty.  The right to sovereignty and the practical fact of having sovereignty are two very different things.


In other words, the right to sovereignty means nothing unless you are strong enough to defend it.


----------



## Shusha

toomuchtime_ said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds good, but in fact, the way sovereignty is usually transferred is by military force and the passage of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree most strongly.  Modern customary law no longer accepts external military force or conquest as legitimate means of transferring territory from one State to another.  Sovereignty rests with treaties and mutual agreements, often as a result of recognition of self-determination of a specific peoples by the involved parties and the international communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Customary law means the law has been applied regularly but I can't think of when such a law has had any effect, can you?
Click to expand...


I can't think of any where it hasn't applied.  Peace treaties and boundary agreements are the defining factor of modern nations.  Can you give me an example of where it hasn't applied?  Where there is no treaty agreement, but internationally accepted that territory changed sovereignty through conquest?  Especially post 1948 ish?

I mean, I try to be well-read on the subject, but feel free to prove me wrong.


----------



## Shusha

toomuchtime_ said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, please do not read this as me dismissing the RIGHTS of Arab Palestinians to take up sovereignty.  I am firmly in agreement that they have that right, in principle.  But it requires actual acts of creating sovereignty.  The right to sovereignty and the practical fact of having sovereignty are two very different things.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, the right to sovereignty means nothing unless you are strong enough to defend it.
Click to expand...


Nope, actually rather the opposite if what I meant.  I believe in the principle of self-determination.  And the rights of any peoples who want it to have it.  I also believe in the principle of non-violence.  The test to see whether you are actually a state or not has nothing to do with military power.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds good, but in fact, the way sovereignty is usually transferred is by military force and the passage of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree most strongly.  Modern customary law no longer accepts external military force or conquest as legitimate means of transferring territory from one State to another.  Sovereignty rests with treaties and mutual agreements, often as a result of recognition of self-determination of a specific peoples by the involved parties and the international communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Customary law means the law has been applied regularly but I can't think of when such a law has had any effect, can you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't think of any where it hasn't applied.  Peace treaties and boundary agreements are the defining factor of modern nations.  Can you give me an example of where it hasn't applied?  Where there is no treaty agreement, but internationally accepted that territory changed sovereignty through conquest?  Especially post 1948 ish?
> 
> I mean, I try to be well-read on the subject, but feel free to prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

Since when does law have to be internationally accepted to be effective?  If a law cannot compel states to comply with it, it is nothing but a curiosity.  Tibet, Inner Mongolia, parts of Georgia and parts of Ukraine are example in which the law had no effect.  International law is mostly effective in matters involving commerce because in these cases the effects of the law are mutually beneficial, but in other areas, international law is mostly aspirational rather than real.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, please do not read this as me dismissing the RIGHTS of Arab Palestinians to take up sovereignty.  I am firmly in agreement that they have that right, in principle.  But it requires actual acts of creating sovereignty.  The right to sovereignty and the practical fact of having sovereignty are two very different things.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, the right to sovereignty means nothing unless you are strong enough to defend it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, actually rather the opposite if what I meant.  I believe in the principle of self-determination.  And the rights of any peoples who want it to have it.  I also believe in the principle of non-violence.  The test to see whether you are actually a state or not has nothing to do with military power.
Click to expand...

I won't quarrel with your beliefs, but in the real world, you only have the rights you can defend.  Ask any Ukrainian.


----------



## Shusha

toomuchtime_ said:


> I won't quarrel with your beliefs, but in the real world, you only have the rights you can defend.  Ask any Ukrainian.



My meaning was that sovereignty depends on your ability to put it into place or take it up.  That does not necessarily depend on military might or the need to defend territory with military might.  It can, but it doesn't have to.  Certainly, Palestine and Palestinians have the opportunity to achieve many things through non-military means, should they choose to.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I won't quarrel with your beliefs, but in the real world, you only have the rights you can defend.  Ask any Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My meaning was that sovereignty depends on your ability to put it into place or take it up.  That does not necessarily depend on military might or the need to defend territory with military might.  It can, but it doesn't have to.  Certainly, Palestine and Palestinians have the opportunity to achieve many things through non-military means, should they choose to.
Click to expand...

As individuals they do, but I think the time has passed when they might have achieved some measure of sovereignty over some part of Judea and Samaria.


----------



## Shusha

toomuchtime_ said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I won't quarrel with your beliefs, but in the real world, you only have the rights you can defend.  Ask any Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My meaning was that sovereignty depends on your ability to put it into place or take it up.  That does not necessarily depend on military might or the need to defend territory with military might.  It can, but it doesn't have to.  Certainly, Palestine and Palestinians have the opportunity to achieve many things through non-military means, should they choose to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As individuals they do, but I think the time has passed when they might have achieved some measure of sovereignty over some part of Judea and Samaria.
Click to expand...


Possibly true.  I'm not yet convinced they ever really wanted it.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> Good post. It would be great if the UN would live up to its stated ideals.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't know that any representative of the "Palestinian People" was involved in any way.

What ideals are you referring to → that are relevant to the territory_*?*_

.........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She (long ago) met the requirements for being a state and has been recognized as a state in the international community.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what are those requirements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Recognition is not a requirement for the establishment of a state.
> 
> 
> .........View attachment 278573
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, think Palestine 1948.
> 
> BTW, Palestine was recognized by several other states.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In 1948?
In 1988?
When?​There is no doubt in my mind, that most of these claims to a functional government by the Arab Palestinian proponents are purely imaginary.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Well, the interesting thing, Tinmore, is that you and I agree on a lot. And, in fact, if you would only lose the ridiculous notion that somehow rights don't apply to the Jewish people, we could get on with actual solutions to the conflict.


I have never said that Jews have no rights. Rights like sovereignty and self determination are "national" rights. These are territorial rights. The French have those rights in France but they cannot claim those same rights in Britain. If someone from France moves to Britain and becomes a citizen then he will have those rights in Britain. However, those rights would not be exclusive or superior to those already living there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> However, those rights would not be exclusive or superior to those already living there.



Excepting Arab-Moslems and their history of war and conquest, settler colonialism. Jews and Christians were “already living there” (you pick the “there”), so explain this dhimmitude thing to us.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist attacks from Gaza resulted in the expected IDF retaliation. The IDF struck 15 targets in Gaza. I’m not sure why they didn’t strike 30 or more to make a statement. 



After rocket attack, IDF strikes 15 terror targets in Gaza

Two rockets were shot from Gaza on Tuesday night. The Iron Dome intercepted one rocket while another fell in an open field near Ashkelon.

The Israeli Air Force attacked fifteen targets in Gaza overnight, the IDF confirmed early on Wednesday.

Targets included a site used to manufacture weapons, a naval compound and a terror tunnel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> In order for sovereignty to transfer from one state to another two things have to happen, the existing sovereign has to part with their sovereignty and another sovereign has to take up sovereignty. (While an existing sovereign can unilaterally abandon territory, this does not create a new sovereign, it creates the condition of _terra nullius)
> _
> Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne takes care of the first part of our transfer. No matter how much you wish it so, and no matter how many times you repeat yourself, it does NOT take care of both parts.


That is true. However, the Treaty of Lausanne was a part of a process. The plan was to create new states in that region. Each new state was named and post war treaties defined their international borders. The people who normally lived in each territory would become citizens/nationals of their respective territories. That plan could not be implemented as long as those territories fell under Turkish sovereignty.
The Treaty of Lausanne merely released those territories so that the plan could be implemented. All of those new states came into existence with the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> In order for sovereignty to transfer from one state to another two things have to happen, the existing sovereign has to part with their sovereignty and another sovereign has to take up sovereignty. (While an existing sovereign can unilaterally abandon territory, this does not create a new sovereign, it creates the condition of _terra nullius)
> _
> Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne takes care of the first part of our transfer. No matter how much you wish it so, and no matter how many times you repeat yourself, it does NOT take care of both parts.
> 
> 
> 
> That is true. However, the Treaty of Lausanne was a part of a process. The plan was to create new states in that region. Each new state was named and post war treaties defined their international borders. The people who normally lived in each territory would become citizens/nationals of their respective territories. That plan could not be implemented as long as those territories fell under Turkish sovereignty.
> The Treaty of Lausanne merely released those territories so that the plan could be implemented. All of those new states came into existence with the Treaty of Lausanne.
Click to expand...


Yes. The Treaty of Lausanne created the “country of Pal’istan (_Where Dreams Come True™️_). That just wasn’t stated in the documents because they, you know, forgot to mention that minor detail.


----------



## Mindful

Indigenous to the land?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore
What if Britain conquered France and forced there a Briton majority,
then got dissolved by the US which decided to give half of Paris to Britain and a tiny province around it to the French nation to reestablish their homeland, leaving the British royalty to divide the rest.

In case British royals gathered in war to take the rest of France and lost Paris,
could France establish a preferential naturalization process for ethnic French living abroad?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Rights like sovereignty and self determination are "national" rights. These are territorial rights.



What, exactly, is a “territorial right”? Please explain how that applies,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal military conquest is defined by a State actor using military action to invade, occupy or take control of territory not under its sovereignty.  The only such States were Jordan and Egypt.  (Others tried, but did not succeed in taking control of territory outside their own sovereignty).
> 
> Self-determination, by definition, is not military conquest.
Click to expand...

http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Alright, so now we have a territory which has been abandoned by the previous sovereign.  But we don't quite have _terra nullius_.  Why?  Because a new concept was developing around that time in international law and that was the concept of self-determination of peoples.
> 
> This new concept, expressed in Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, said that territory could be held in trust by an _"advanced nation"_ until such time as a peoples existence as independent nations can be recognized and they are able to stand alone.
> 
> Rather than _terra nullius_, then, the Mandate for Palestine created a trusteeship with Britain forming a temporary government, with full rights, but no title to the territory.  This was the legal status of the territory of Israel/Palestine from 1923 to 1948.
> 
> Britain did eventually abandon the trusteeship, creating the condition of _terra nullius._
> 
> Still with me?


No. It was never _terra nullius._


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal military conquest is defined by a State actor using military action to invade, occupy or take control of territory not under its sovereignty.  The only such States were Jordan and Egypt.  (Others tried, but did not succeed in taking control of territory outside their own sovereignty).
> 
> Self-determination, by definition, is not military conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf
Click to expand...


That's odd. Gaza is Jew free and the West Bank is nearly the same, yet, Arabs-Moslems live, work and hold citizenship in Israel. 

Is Pappe trying to sell more books?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it by treaty or by illegal military conquest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal military conquest is defined by a State actor using military action to invade, occupy or take control of territory not under its sovereignty.  The only such States were Jordan and Egypt.  (Others tried, but did not succeed in taking control of territory outside their own sovereignty).
> 
> Self-determination, by definition, is not military conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://www.whale.to/b/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf
Click to expand...








Indeed 80% of the territory formerly under Palestine Mandate is ruled by Arab governments that first expelled and then set laws banning the Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians, who were so used to being able to push their agenda on cable news networks and major newspaper op-eds at will, now are seeing that the world is putting their issues in a more proper perspective. Compared to the real problems of people living in the region, Palestinians don't have it that bad, and giving them so much oxygen has suffocated far more important causes for a long time.

But the anti-Israel, pro-terror activists are frustrated at this change in focus. They are like spoiled children who are suddenly forced to share their toys with others. They keep trying to come up with more and more absurd excuses to own the agenda (like accusing Israel of "veganwashing.")

This mentality is shared between anti-Israel activists and Palestinian terrorists. They aren't the center of attention anymore and they must stage a temper tantrum to regain the spotlight. A parent can't ignore their child screaming in the middle of the market, can they?

Palestinians are proud that Gaza rockets are powerful enough to force an Israeli prime minister to react, just as toddlers are happy to get attention from their parents by screaming that they want a chocolate bar.

The difference is that up until now, the world has been patiently hoping that the Palestinian toddlers will grow up. In the years since Oslo, real toddlers have indeed grown up, started companies and had children of their own - but Palestinians and their fans have stayed exactly where they were.

(full article online)

The temper tantrum rockets ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Fortunately, there is a growing awareness and reaction to Fatah using Facebook as a means of incitement and to promote islamic terrorism by glorifying the acts of islamic terrorists.
*


Jpost: "PMW: Facebook promoting Palestinian terrorism" - PMW Bulletins

PMW: Facebook promoting Palestinian terrorism*

*NGO report documents dozens of incidents in which Fatah glorified murderers of Israelis*
An Jerusalem-based watchdog group has accused Facebook of being an accomplice to terrorism for its continued refusal to shut down the official Fatah Facebook page.

Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) on Tuesday released a report documenting dozens of incidents in which Fatah used its page to promote violence and glorify murderers of Israelis.

The 42-page report is the second of its kind. The previous report, published in February 2019, tracked Fatah's Facebook activity the year before. Both reports were sent to Facebook.

According to PMW's CEO Itamar Marcus, the first report was not only reviewed by the social networking site, but Marcus had a 45-minute conversation with the director of Facebook's global counterterrorism policy team, Brian Fishman, about its findings.

"During our conversation, I emphasized that every time Fatah posts a new terror message on Facebook encouraging violence or presenting murderers as role models, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are given more motivation to kill Israelis," Marcus told The Jerusalem Post. "Facebook still chooses to do nothing to stop it.

"Their willingness to ignore the role they are playing in Fatah's terror promotion is incomprehensible," he said. "Whereas in 2018 Facebook was an unwitting accomplice in Fatah's terror promotion, Facebook is Fatah's partner by choice in 2019."


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so now we have a territory which has been abandoned by the previous sovereign.  But we don't quite have _terra nullius_.  Why?  Because a new concept was developing around that time in international law and that was the concept of self-determination of peoples.
> 
> This new concept, expressed in Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, said that territory could be held in trust by an _"advanced nation"_ until such time as a peoples existence as independent nations can be recognized and they are able to stand alone.
> 
> Rather than _terra nullius_, then, the Mandate for Palestine created a trusteeship with Britain forming a temporary government, with full rights, but no title to the territory.  This was the legal status of the territory of Israel/Palestine from 1923 to 1948.
> 
> Britain did eventually abandon the trusteeship, creating the condition of _terra nullius._
> 
> Still with me?
> 
> 
> 
> No. It was never _terra nullius._
Click to expand...


Well, it's mostly unimportant, because it was only for a brief moment between the British abandonment of the Mandate and the Declaration of Independence by Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> That is true. However, the Treaty of Lausanne was a part of a process. The plan was to create new states in that region. Each new state was named and post war treaties defined their international borders. The people who normally lived in each territory would become citizens/nationals of their respective territories. That plan could not be implemented as long as those territories fell under Turkish sovereignty.
> The Treaty of Lausanne merely released those territories so that the plan could be implemented. All of those new states came into existence with the Treaty of Lausanne.



You had me right up until the last sentence.  You can not put an empty pot on the table and call it soup.  States are not figments of people's imaginations.  They exist, or do not exist, in reality.  They exist in reality because they have governments, and manage people and control territory and declare themselves such.  They exist in reality because they negotiate and trade and treat with other nations.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I have never said that Jews have no rights. Rights like sovereignty and self determination are "national" rights. These are territorial rights.



What is that supposed to mean?  That the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty and self-determination, but no right to a territory to put it on?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a letter to Life magazine in 1951:





Richardson became a professor of international affairsand wrote a few papers on the Palestine refugee situation in the early 1950s. He was no Zionist and he was truly concerned over the plight of refugees of Palestine 

To Richardson, as to most of the people at the time who wanted to find  solution to the refugee problem, it was obvious that the Arab countries were at fault for no solution and that it was their responsibility to help resettle the Arabs of Palestine in their states. In fact, it would be beneficial to them to integrate this population.
This is how you can tell the difference between people who are pro-Palestinian and those who are just anti-Israel. People who really care about Palestinians would insist that Arab states make them into citizens, especially those that have been "guests" for generations. People who truly care about Palestinians want to end their statelessness and their suffering in camps.

People who are anti-Israel insist on "return,' and are angry when Palestinian Arabs themselves say they want to become citizens in Lebanon, Gulf states or the West. They are the ones who insist on supporting UNRWA to keep the issue alive - and Palestinians in limbo - until a fantasy time when Israel is destroyed. They want to see millions more refugees.

Sometimes you need to look at the past to understand the present.


It used to be obvious how the Palestinian refugee problem must be solved ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is true. However, the Treaty of Lausanne was a part of a process. The plan was to create new states in that region. Each new state was named and post war treaties defined their international borders. The people who normally lived in each territory would become citizens/nationals of their respective territories. That plan could not be implemented as long as those territories fell under Turkish sovereignty.
> The Treaty of Lausanne merely released those territories so that the plan could be implemented. All of those new states came into existence with the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had me right up until the last sentence.  You can not put an empty pot on the table and call it soup.  States are not figments of people's imaginations.  They exist, or do not exist, in reality.  They exist in reality because they have governments, and manage people and control territory and declare themselves such.  They exist in reality because they negotiate and trade and treat with other nations.
Click to expand...

And can defend themselves or have strong allies; otherwise, if they have anything of value, their existence is likely to be brief.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you are just so full of it.



			
				Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> _*terra nullius*_ ‘The expression “ terra nullius ” was a legal term of art employed in connection
> with “occupation” as one of the accepted legal methods of acquiring sovereignty over a territory. “Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory otherwise than by cession or succession, it was a cardinal condition of a valid “occupation” that the territory should be terra nullius— a territory belonging to no-one—at the time of the act alleged to constitute the “occupation” . . .’: Western Sahara Case 1975 I.C.J. Rep. 6 at 39. Cf . Eastern Greenland, Legal Status of, Case ( 1933 ) P.C.I.J., Ser. A/B, No. 53 at 44 and 63. In the words of 1 Oppenheim 687 , ‘*The only territory which can be the object of occupation is that which does not already belong to another state, whether it is uninhabited, or inhabited by persons whose community is not considered to be a state*; for individuals may live on as territory without forming themselves into a state proper exercising sovereignty over such territory’. See also Clipperton Island Case ( 1931 ) 2 R.I.A.A. 1105 ; Island of Palmas Case ( 1928 ) 2 R.I.A.A. 829 ; Minquiers and Ecrehos Case 1953 I.C.J. Rep. 47 ; Rann of Kutch Case ( 1968 ) 17 R.I.A.A. 1 ; Western Sahara Case 1975 I.C.J. Rep. 12 . And see Crawford, The Creation of States in International Law (2nd ed.), 265–268. The process whereby territory already subject to the sovereignty of another State may be acquired—and by very much the same method as for occupation —is referred to as prescription ( see prescription, acquisitive ).*
> SOURCE: * _Page 596 •  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law •_





P F Tinmore said:


> No. It was never _terra nullius._


*(COMMENT)*

In July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties with the West Bank.  Originally, the Israelis captured the territory in 1967 from the Jordanians.  The abandonment by the Jordanians left the territory in the hands of the Israelis.



			
				INTERNATIONAL LAW said:
			
		

> Occupation is a method of acquiring territory which belongs to no one _*(terra nullius)*_ and which may be acquired by a state in certain situations.  The occupation must be by a state and not by private individuals, it must be effective and it must be intended as a claim of sovereignty over the area.
> SOURCE:  Page 503 • INTERNATIONAL LAW 6th Edition, MALCOLM N. SHAW QC and Sir Robert Jennings Professor of International Law • University of Leicester


........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so now we have a territory which has been abandoned by the previous sovereign.  But we don't quite have _terra nullius_.  Why?  Because a new concept was developing around that time in international law and that was the concept of self-determination of peoples.
> 
> This new concept, expressed in Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, said that territory could be held in trust by an _"advanced nation"_ until such time as a peoples existence as independent nations can be recognized and they are able to stand alone.
> 
> Rather than _terra nullius_, then, the Mandate for Palestine created a trusteeship with Britain forming a temporary government, with full rights, but no title to the territory.  This was the legal status of the territory of Israel/Palestine from 1923 to 1948.
> 
> Britain did eventually abandon the trusteeship, creating the condition of _terra nullius._
> 
> Still with me?
> 
> 
> 
> No. It was never _terra nullius._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it's mostly unimportant, because it was only for a brief moment between the British abandonment of the Mandate and the Declaration of Independence by Israel.
Click to expand...

Britain did not abandon Palestine. They handed it over to the UNPC.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is true. However, the Treaty of Lausanne was a part of a process. The plan was to create new states in that region. Each new state was named and post war treaties defined their international borders. The people who normally lived in each territory would become citizens/nationals of their respective territories. That plan could not be implemented as long as those territories fell under Turkish sovereignty.
> The Treaty of Lausanne merely released those territories so that the plan could be implemented. All of those new states came into existence with the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had me right up until the last sentence.  You can not put an empty pot on the table and call it soup.  States are not figments of people's imaginations.  They exist, or do not exist, in reality.  They exist in reality because they have governments, and manage people and control territory and declare themselves such.  They exist in reality because they negotiate and trade and treat with other nations.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> They exist in reality because they have governments,


Indeed, it was the job of the Mandate to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Britain was there for thirty years and failed to establish a government. They could have been in and out in ten.

BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so now we have a territory which has been abandoned by the previous sovereign.  But we don't quite have _terra nullius_.  Why?  Because a new concept was developing around that time in international law and that was the concept of self-determination of peoples.
> 
> This new concept, expressed in Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, said that territory could be held in trust by an _"advanced nation"_ until such time as a peoples existence as independent nations can be recognized and they are able to stand alone.
> 
> Rather than _terra nullius_, then, the Mandate for Palestine created a trusteeship with Britain forming a temporary government, with full rights, but no title to the territory.  This was the legal status of the territory of Israel/Palestine from 1923 to 1948.
> 
> Britain did eventually abandon the trusteeship, creating the condition of _terra nullius._
> 
> Still with me?
> 
> 
> 
> No. It was never _terra nullius._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it's mostly unimportant, because it was only for a brief moment between the British abandonment of the Mandate and the Declaration of Independence by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain did not abandon Palestine. They handed it over to the UNPC.
Click to expand...


Indeed, and the rest, as they say is history. Israel declared independence, established sovereignty in the face of Arab-Moslem attacks and decades later has thrived. A small oasis of hope and success in a vast Islamic wilderness of despair and failure.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is true. However, the Treaty of Lausanne was a part of a process. The plan was to create new states in that region. Each new state was named and post war treaties defined their international borders. The people who normally lived in each territory would become citizens/nationals of their respective territories. That plan could not be implemented as long as those territories fell under Turkish sovereignty.
> The Treaty of Lausanne merely released those territories so that the plan could be implemented. All of those new states came into existence with the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had me right up until the last sentence.  You can not put an empty pot on the table and call it soup.  States are not figments of people's imaginations.  They exist, or do not exist, in reality.  They exist in reality because they have governments, and manage people and control territory and declare themselves such.  They exist in reality because they negotiate and trade and treat with other nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They exist in reality because they have governments,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, it was the job of the Mandate to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Britain was there for thirty years and failed to establish a government. They could have been in and out in ten.
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
Click to expand...


Indeed, rendering assistance is what happened. Arab-Moslem intransigence along with an inability and unwillingness to establish a workable government and stable society is the fault of Arabs-Moslems.

Indeed, decades since the end of the mandate and the angry, intransigent Arab-Moslem tribes are still at each other’s throats.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Britain was there for thirty years and failed to establish a government.



1.  A government was, in point of fact, established there.  It became a State.  Israel.
2.  It was not the function of the British government to establish a government (self-determination, remember?).  It was the function of the British government to provide support and tutelage.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so now we have a territory which has been abandoned by the previous sovereign.  But we don't quite have _terra nullius_.  Why?  Because a new concept was developing around that time in international law and that was the concept of self-determination of peoples.
> 
> This new concept, expressed in Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, said that territory could be held in trust by an _"advanced nation"_ until such time as a peoples existence as independent nations can be recognized and they are able to stand alone.
> 
> Rather than _terra nullius_, then, the Mandate for Palestine created a trusteeship with Britain forming a temporary government, with full rights, but no title to the territory.  This was the legal status of the territory of Israel/Palestine from 1923 to 1948.
> 
> Britain did eventually abandon the trusteeship, creating the condition of _terra nullius._
> 
> Still with me?
> 
> 
> 
> No. It was never _terra nullius._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it's mostly unimportant, because it was only for a brief moment between the British abandonment of the Mandate and the Declaration of Independence by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain did not abandon Palestine. They handed it over to the UNPC.
Click to expand...


Meh.  Interesting concept.  Can a non-State legally hold a territory in trusteeship for a (possible) eventual self-governing state?  i'd argue, no.  But you can try to convince me.  

You'd have to give up your, but there was already a State of Palestine routine though.  You can't have it both ways.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I guess it is all in how you look at it.



			
				EXCERPT • Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:
			
		

> His Majesty’s Government are not prepared to continue indefinitely to govern Palestine themselves merely because Arabs and Jews cannot agree upon the means of sharing its government between them.
> ... →
> The latest British proposals were rejected both by the Arab Delegations (which include, at the second part of the London conference, a Delegation representing the Palestine Arab Higher Executive), and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine. Thereupon the Mandatory decided to refer the problem to the United Nations.
> .... →
> We shall explain that the Mandate has proved to be unworkable in practice, and that the obligations undertaken to the two communities in Palestine have been shown to be irreconcilable.
> SOURCE:  • A/AC.14/8   2 October 1947 •





P F Tinmore said:


> Britain did not abandon Palestine. They handed it over to the UNPC.


*(COMMENT)*

The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) made recommendations in late 1947.  Of the recommendation approved by the General Assembly, it included the establishment of the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.


*(COMMENT)*

In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.

......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.

For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
Click to expand...


Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..

These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.

Pal’istan never became a State. 

These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.


----------



## Hollie

Yeah, why not. Blame the *Great* _*Satan*_™️

Pretty standard.


*Saudi Arabia arrests Hamas members, terror group blames US

i24NEWS*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Pal’istan never became a State.
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't back up those allegations, would you?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Pal’istan never became a State.
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't back up those allegations, would you?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


Indeed, I think you're befuddled over allegations. 

Can you indeed support your "enemy occupied territory" claim?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."


RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.





RoccoR said:


> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.


*(COMMENT)*

The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.

The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.

The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.

.........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.


Being occupied doesn't help.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
Click to expand...


Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.

The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority media is controlled by PA Chairman Abbas himself. A statement by the General Supervisor of the Official PA Media Ahmad Assaf who has the rank of minister and was appointed by Abbas demonstrates that Abbas actively involves himself in determining the content of the official PA media:

"Assaf expressed his pride that *the official media is representing the cause of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners under the instructions of [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas, who is constantly reemphasizing that this is our people's most important cause*."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 26, 2019]

Assaf made this statement in July at a tribute ceremony held at the Palestine Broadcasting Corporation headquarters in Ramallah for "journalists who are members of the official media."
Abbas' control over the content of the media is effective. Earlier this month, a Palestinian Martyrs' association honored the head of PA media Ahmad Assaf for doing precisely what Abbas had instructed: "To serve the Martyrs and their families and the prisoners and their families":

"Secretary-General of the National Association of the Families of the Martyrs of Palestine Muhammad Sbeihat honored General Supervisor of the Official [PA] Media [with the rank of] Minister Ahmad Assaf for* the role that the official media plays in serving the Martyrs and their families and the prisoners and their families*."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Sept. 3, 2019]

Numerous earlier statements confirming the PA's control of the media have been exposed by Palestinian Media Watch. For example, two officials employed at PA TV explained how they see their role: The director general of PA TV, Khaled Sukkar, explained that* PA TV "is not a neutral media outlet; it is a media outlet with a national cause."* [Official PA TV News, July 23, 2018] Programs Division Director of official PA TV Nizar Al-Ghoul also stated that PA TV is not merely for entertainment but a central part of the "struggle." He referred to Ahmad Assaf, explaining that he "would follow everything small and large, direct every assignment, and follow the details. He surprises you when he calls you to ask about a tiny detail in some program." [Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Aug. 5, 2018]

(full article online)

Abbas dictates content of PA media: Promote terrorists - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Pal’istan never became a State.
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
Palestine was promised independence by the Allies in WWI, if they would revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
They did, and the result is that Palestine was declared an independent state in the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, and the Treaty of Lausanne.
The only thing unfinished was the certification of Palestine's legitimate government.
Partition of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia

In contrast, there is no legal basis for Israel to exist at all, and the UN just created Israel out of thin air as the most expedient way to rid themselves of the problem.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.
> 
> The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.
Click to expand...


That is ridiculous.
Palestine has always had a functioning government.
Even when it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, the entirely local government structure was manned by Palestinians.
During the British Mandate occupation, it again was almost entirely Palestinians who ran the country, dealt with sanitation and water, etc.
The ONLY thing the Palestinians were lacking was defense, and that was a deliberate fault caused by the British.
And it is obvious the Palestinians currently supply a perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank, where they are allowed to by the illegally occupying Israelis.

The country that has yet failed to provide for a government capable of not constantly committing war crimes, is Israel.
Never has a country been so in violation of international law.
If there is any country that should be labeled rogue and taken over by the UN, it is Israel.
Going back to 1949, immediately Israel committed war crimes by not allowing refugees who fled the violence, to return to their homes and properties.  That is criminal by any definition.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.
> 
> The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous.
> Palestine has always had a functioning government.
> Even when it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, the entirely local government structure was manned by Palestinians.
> During the British Mandate occupation, it again was almost entirely Palestinians who ran the country, dealt with sanitation and water, etc.
> The ONLY thing the Palestinians were lacking was defense, and that was a deliberate fault caused by the British.
> And it is obvious the Palestinians currently supply a perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank, where they are allowed to by the illegally occupying Israelis.
> 
> The country that has yet failed to provide for a government capable of not constantly committing war crimes, is Israel.
> Never has a country been so in violation of international law.
> If there is any country that should be labeled rogue and taken over by the UN, it is Israel.
> Going back to 1949, immediately Israel committed war crimes by not allowing refugees who fled the violence, to return to their homes and properties.  That is criminal by any definition.
Click to expand...







Are You writing the 1002nd?

Sanitation...a place under a tree sanitation.
Diseases and swamps don't develop all over the land when it's being used.
The land was the most impoverished and neglected province of the entire Caliphate.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.
> 
> The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous.
> Palestine has always had a functioning government.
> Even when it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, the entirely local government structure was manned by Palestinians.
> During the British Mandate occupation, it again was almost entirely Palestinians who ran the country, dealt with sanitation and water, etc.
> The ONLY thing the Palestinians were lacking was defense, and that was a deliberate fault caused by the British.
> And it is obvious the Palestinians currently supply a perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank, where they are allowed to by the illegally occupying Israelis.
> 
> The country that has yet failed to provide for a government capable of not constantly committing war crimes, is Israel.
> Never has a country been so in violation of international law.
> If there is any country that should be labeled rogue and taken over by the UN, it is Israel.
> Going back to 1949, immediately Israel committed war crimes by not allowing refugees who fled the violence, to return to their homes and properties.  That is criminal by any definition.
Click to expand...


Palestine was an administrative sanjac of the Ottoman Empire during that caliphate. During the mandate period, the Brits were the government.

Your claim that the Pals supply a "perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank" is problematic. While the PA is claimed to be the sole representative of the Pals, that is clearly not the reality as the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza are separate, antagonistic entities occupying defined turf little different than street gangs.

The notion of "perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank" is further problematic in the sense that heavily armed islamic terrorists as a "government" erases any pretense of adequate government. The PA and Hamas controlled Gaza survive on a forever welfare fraud known as UNRWA.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hundreds of Palestinian refugees demonstrated outside the Canadian Embassy in Beirut on Sept. 5 to request asylum in Canada or the European Union, the second such protest in the last month. The most surprising aspect of these demonstrations is that they have been so long in coming. Only now, after more than 70 years, are Palestinians publicly protesting the fact that they alone, of all the world’s refugees, are denied the most basic of refugee rights—the right to seek resettlement in a safe third country.
-----

In other words, the West has kept Palestinian refugees in miserable limbo for 70 years and deprived them of their basic right to resettlement in order to hold a gun to Israel’s head: Either make enough political concessions to the Palestinians and/or Arab states that they’ll deign to grant citizenship to their own brethren, or risk being flooded by millions of “refugees” and their descendants, who will destroy the Jewish state demographically. Just like the Palestinian Authority, the West has been treating these Palestinians as political game pieces rather than human beings with needs, wants and rights of their own. And as the protests in Lebanon show, Palestinians are increasingly fed up with this role.

Any resettlement program would have to be led by an international agency like UNHCR. Though an Israeli official ludicrously asserted in August that Israel is actively promoting emigration from Gaza, in reality, this isn’t something Israel can do much about. As I’ve explained in more detail elsewhere, neither Palestinians nor other countries would feel comfortable cooperating with Israel as part of such an effort.

But what Israel and its supporters can and should do is wage a full-throated campaign to demand that the international community finally choose: Either admit that the Palestinians aren’t actually refugees or finally start treating them as real refugees. If the former, it should dismantle UNRWA and use the agency’s $1.2 billion budget to encourage the places where Palestinians now live to start providing them with citizenship and basic services. And if the latter, it should dismantle UNRWA, transfer responsibility for Palestinian refugees to UNHCR and finally grant them the basic right of resettlement.

After 70 years, it’s long past time to stop treating millions of Palestinians as nothing but perpetual pawns in a war to destroy Israel.

(full article online)

Palestinians are tired of being the only refugees denied the right to resettlement


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Rigby5, et al,

The Arab Palestinians did not revolt against the Ottoman Empire.



Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Palestine was promised independence by the Allies in WWI, if they would revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
> They did, and the result is that Palestine was declared an independent state in the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, and the Treaty of Lausanne.
> The only thing unfinished was the certification of Palestine's legitimate government.
> Partition of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia
> 
> In contrast, there is no legal basis for Israel to exist at all, and the UN just created Israel out of thin air as the most expedient way to rid themselves of the problem.


*(COMMENT)*

Both the President and the Prime Minister were former Army Officers in the Ottoman Army.

You are confusing the Arab Palestinians with the Bedoin Irregular Cavary provided by the King of the Hejaz.   The sons of the King were given two countries to be Kings over, Jordan and Iraq.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Pal’istan never became a State.
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Palestine was promised independence by the Allies in WWI, if they would revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
> They did, and the result is that Palestine was declared an independent state in the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, and the Treaty of Lausanne.
> The only thing unfinished was the certification of Palestine's legitimate government.
> Partition of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia
> 
> In contrast, there is no legal basis for Israel to exist at all, and the UN just created Israel out of thin air as the most expedient way to rid themselves of the problem.
Click to expand...


It is very strange that you, like Tinmore, bring up the Treaties of Sevres and Lausanne, San Remo agreements and the Mandate for Palestine as support for the ridiculous notion that there is no legal basis for Israel to exist, when those treaties in fact ARE the legal basis for Israel to exist (along with the principle of self-determination in customary law).

Treaty of Sevres specifically charges the High Contracting Parties to establish a National Home (state) for the Jewish people.  It also specifically excludes Palestine as an independent state:  

_ARTICLE 95.

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

The Mandatory undertakes to appoint as soon as possible a special Commission to study and regulate all questions and claims relating to the different religious communities. In the composition of this Commission the religious interests concerned will be taken into account. The Chairman of the Commission will be appointed by the Council of the League of Nations_.

as contrasted with Article 94 which gives Syria and Mesopotamia the status of independent states.

_ARTICLE 94.

The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22.

Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone._



Its absolutely ridiculous for you, like Tinmore, to ignore this legal recognition of Jewish rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.
> 
> The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous.
> Palestine has always had a functioning government.
> Even when it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, the entirely local government structure was manned by Palestinians.
> During the British Mandate occupation, it again was almost entirely Palestinians who ran the country, dealt with sanitation and water, etc.
> The ONLY thing the Palestinians were lacking was defense, and that was a deliberate fault caused by the British.
> And it is obvious the Palestinians currently supply a perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank, where they are allowed to by the illegally occupying Israelis.
> 
> The country that has yet failed to provide for a government capable of not constantly committing war crimes, is Israel.
> Never has a country been so in violation of international law.
> If there is any country that should be labeled rogue and taken over by the UN, it is Israel.
> Going back to 1949, immediately Israel committed war crimes by not allowing refugees who fled the violence, to return to their homes and properties.  That is criminal by any definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are You writing the 1002nd?
> 
> Sanitation...a place under a tree sanitation.
> Diseases and swamps don't develop all over the land when it's being used.
> The land was the most impoverished and neglected province of the entire Caliphate.
Click to expand...

Another bullshit Israeli talking point.

Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to foreign markets.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the US and Palestine had a trade agreement in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Pal’istan never became a State.
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Palestine was promised independence by the Allies in WWI, if they would revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
> They did, and the result is that Palestine was declared an independent state in the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, and the Treaty of Lausanne.
> The only thing unfinished was the certification of Palestine's legitimate government.
> Partition of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia
> 
> In contrast, there is no legal basis for Israel to exist at all, and the UN just created Israel out of thin air as the most expedient way to rid themselves of the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is very strange that you, like Tinmore, bring up the Treaties of Sevres and Lausanne, San Remo agreements and the Mandate for Palestine as support for the ridiculous notion that there is no legal basis for Israel to exist, when those treaties in fact ARE the legal basis for Israel to exist (along with the principle of self-determination in customary law).
> 
> Treaty of Sevres specifically charges the High Contracting Parties to establish a National Home (state) for the Jewish people.  It also specifically excludes Palestine as an independent state:
> 
> _ARTICLE 95.
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> The Mandatory undertakes to appoint as soon as possible a special Commission to study and regulate all questions and claims relating to the different religious communities. In the composition of this Commission the religious interests concerned will be taken into account. The Chairman of the Commission will be appointed by the Council of the League of Nations_.
> 
> as contrasted with Article 94 which gives Syria and Mesopotamia the status of independent states.
> 
> _ARTICLE 94.
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22.
> 
> Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone._
> 
> 
> 
> Its absolutely ridiculous for you, like Tinmore, to ignore this legal recognition of Jewish rights.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Its absolutely ridiculous for you, like Tinmore, to ignore this legal recognition of Jewish rights.



By foreigners.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1932, "Palestine" was the short title for the British Government of Palestine _(Order in Council)_.
> 
> .........View attachment 278789
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory. There was a change in rules after Palestine became a state.
> 
> For Britain, the change from an occupying power to a Mandate was merely a name change. It still acted like an occupying power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pal’istan was never an enemy occupied territory..
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Pal’istan never became a State.
> 
> These types of nonsense claims only serve to discredit your attempt at argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> Palestine was promised independence by the Allies in WWI, if they would revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
> They did, and the result is that Palestine was declared an independent state in the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, and the Treaty of Lausanne.
> The only thing unfinished was the certification of Palestine's legitimate government.
> Partition of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia
> 
> In contrast, there is no legal basis for Israel to exist at all, and the UN just created Israel out of thin air as the most expedient way to rid themselves of the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is very strange that you, like Tinmore, bring up the Treaties of Sevres and Lausanne, San Remo agreements and the Mandate for Palestine as support for the ridiculous notion that there is no legal basis for Israel to exist, when those treaties in fact ARE the legal basis for Israel to exist (along with the principle of self-determination in customary law).
> 
> Treaty of Sevres specifically charges the High Contracting Parties to establish a National Home (state) for the Jewish people.  It also specifically excludes Palestine as an independent state:
> 
> _ARTICLE 95.
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> The Mandatory undertakes to appoint as soon as possible a special Commission to study and regulate all questions and claims relating to the different religious communities. In the composition of this Commission the religious interests concerned will be taken into account. The Chairman of the Commission will be appointed by the Council of the League of Nations_.
> 
> as contrasted with Article 94 which gives Syria and Mesopotamia the status of independent states.
> 
> _ARTICLE 94.
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22.
> 
> Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone._
> 
> 
> 
> Its absolutely ridiculous for you, like Tinmore, to ignore this legal recognition of Jewish rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its absolutely ridiculous for you, like Tinmore, to ignore this legal recognition of Jewish rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By foreigners.
Click to expand...


Well, yes.  That's how international law works.  Its, you know, international.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is wrong:  "The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an enemy occupied territory."
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Interim Report on the *Civil Administration began on 1 JULY 1920*; three months after the decisions of the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) ended on 1 JULY 1920 with the beginning of the Civil Administration.
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council was issued two years afterwords on:  10 August 1922.  Palestine did not become a state_ [*a)* a permanent population; *b)* a defined territory; *c)* government; and *d)* capacity to enter into relations with the other states]_.  In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> .........View attachment 278822
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, there are still arguments as to whether the Arabs of Palestine were ever able to establish a functional government over a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.
> 
> The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous.
> Palestine has always had a functioning government.
> Even when it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, the entirely local government structure was manned by Palestinians.
> During the British Mandate occupation, it again was almost entirely Palestinians who ran the country, dealt with sanitation and water, etc.
> The ONLY thing the Palestinians were lacking was defense, and that was a deliberate fault caused by the British.
> And it is obvious the Palestinians currently supply a perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank, where they are allowed to by the illegally occupying Israelis.
> 
> The country that has yet failed to provide for a government capable of not constantly committing war crimes, is Israel.
> Never has a country been so in violation of international law.
> If there is any country that should be labeled rogue and taken over by the UN, it is Israel.
> Going back to 1949, immediately Israel committed war crimes by not allowing refugees who fled the violence, to return to their homes and properties.  That is criminal by any definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are You writing the 1002nd?
> 
> Sanitation...a place under a tree sanitation.
> Diseases and swamps don't develop all over the land when it's being used.
> The land was the most impoverished and neglected province of the entire Caliphate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to foreign markets.
Click to expand...


It seems the major export now and for decades in the past has been Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being occupied doesn't help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being helpless and ineffective is not much of an excuse. I have a sense that your one-liners are merely attempts to sidestep accepting responsibly.
> 
> The inability of the Arabs-Moslems to participate in any steps toward establishing a functioning government and establishing sovereign control of territory falls to a failure of the Arabs-Moslems. There have been nothing but excuses for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous.
> Palestine has always had a functioning government.
> Even when it was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, the entirely local government structure was manned by Palestinians.
> During the British Mandate occupation, it again was almost entirely Palestinians who ran the country, dealt with sanitation and water, etc.
> The ONLY thing the Palestinians were lacking was defense, and that was a deliberate fault caused by the British.
> And it is obvious the Palestinians currently supply a perfectly adequate government in Gaza and the West Bank, where they are allowed to by the illegally occupying Israelis.
> 
> The country that has yet failed to provide for a government capable of not constantly committing war crimes, is Israel.
> Never has a country been so in violation of international law.
> If there is any country that should be labeled rogue and taken over by the UN, it is Israel.
> Going back to 1949, immediately Israel committed war crimes by not allowing refugees who fled the violence, to return to their homes and properties.  That is criminal by any definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are You writing the 1002nd?
> 
> Sanitation...a place under a tree sanitation.
> Diseases and swamps don't develop all over the land when it's being used.
> The land was the most impoverished and neglected province of the entire Caliphate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to foreign markets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems the major export now and for decades in the past has been Islamic terrorism.
Click to expand...

Ooooo, you played a terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Announcing the Palestinian Authority's intention to begin international arbitration proceedings regarding the tax revenues Israel collects and transfers to the PA, the PA Minister of Finance Shukri Bishara chose to obfuscate reality presenting a financial picture that has little to do with real facts, but rather simply reinforces the PA narrative.

In the announcement, Bishara claimed that the payment for services Israel provides to the PA and an agreed handling fee are unrightfully "withheld" by Israel:

"The total amount of what Israel has withheld from the clearance revenues, which are the Palestinian taxes on imports from Israel and abroad collected by Israel on behalf of the Palestinian Authority (PA), has exceeded $3.5 billion in the last five years alone, of which $400 million was taken as 3% commission on the collection and over $3 billion for services, electricity, water, medical transfers and sanitation."
[WAFA, English edition, Official PA news agency, Sept. 4, 2019]

Comprehensive statistics obtained by Palestinian Media Watch from Israel's Ministry of Finance under the Freedom of Information Law, show that Bishara's claims are outrageous.

First, it should be noted that when Bishara refers to the amounts "Israel has withheld," he is, in reality, referring to the PA's payments for services provided by Israel to the Palestinians, such as "electricity, water, medical transfers, and sanitation." Distorting this simple fact - in order to create the impression that Israel arbitrarily deducted these sums - becomes an additional element of the PA's "Palestinian victimhood" narrative. Clearly, however, if Israel provides services to the PA, Israel is entitled to be paid for those services.

Secondly, as opposed to Bishara's claim that Israel has deducted $3 billion in the last five years for the above mentioned services, the real figures tell a different story. As can be seen from the following chart, in reality, over the last five years, the cumulative amount paid from the tax revenues for services Israel has been provided to the PA is 7,508,910,102 shekels - the equivalent of only $2.1 billion.




When Bishara decries the "3% commission on the collection" of the taxes, he is, in reality, referring to the administrative fees incurred by Israel in return for collecting the taxes. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) *agreed *to paying this fee in section 4 of the Supplement to the Protocol on Economic Relations between the State of Israel and the PLO, which was incorporated into the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (commonly known as the Oslo Accords), which provides as follows:
"For the purposes of the implementation of the Protocol on Economic Relations, Israel will deduct 3% from each transfer to the Palestinian side of import taxes and other indirect taxes, in order to cover Israel's administrative costs in collecting these taxes and in handling matters related to them."

By failing to mention the context in which the fee is taken and that the taking of the fee by Israel was agreed to by the PLO, Bishara presents a distorted and false reality in which Israel acts arbitrarily to the detriment of the Palestinians.

(full article online)

"Lies, damn lies and statistics" - the PA version - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Some West Bank residents even prefer Netanyahu to a center-left government that they say would cloak the same policies in the guise of a peace process


Unable to vote, Palestinians shrug off Israel’s elections


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How Christian of him.....]

Selling to Christians or Muslims is OK. Selling to Jews makes you as bad as Judas.

Nah, that isn't antisemitic at all.

(full article online)

Palestinian bishop says Christians selling land to Jews are as traitorous as Judas  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Let us notice how the women are tortured and killed, and the men.........well....... ]


Woman killed for posting photo with boyfriend


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,


Sixties Fan said:


> Some West Bank residents even prefer Netanyahu to a center-left government that they say would cloak the same policies in the guise of a peace process
> 
> Unable to vote, Palestinians shrug off Israel’s elections


*(COMMENT)*

It is, of course, a decision for the Israelis to make.  But I would approach such a decision such as this with some serious caution.  

The Israelis have a lot to be thankful for in the decades since their independence.  Which means that they have just that much to risk; both politically and militarily.  I would recommend a very thorough risk assessment before making such a move.  While they might be able to get away with it in the next few years, they should be weighing the potential impact such a decision might have in the distant future.

Just My Thought,

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

I suppose it’s possible that the Mullocrats are demanding that Hamas do more to justify their Iranian welfare money. It’s just difficult to understand why Hamas would believe that Israel will not do whatever is necessary to defend its borders from the Islamist gee-had. 

If war in Gaza breaks out, there could well be a dramatic beat-down of the islamic terrorists. 



Hamas warns Israel against harming protesters at Gaza border clashes

After a week of tensions that saw Netanyahu being rushed off stage during a rocket attack, PM warns that war in Gaza could break out ‘before the elections’


----------



## Hollie

I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks. 




https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/

Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.

The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.


How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.

Israel has not won a war since 1973.

Think about that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.
> 
> Israel has not won a war since 1973.
> 
> Think about that.
Click to expand...

To Hamas and other Jihadist groups, the fact that they have not been wiped out is their understanding of "winning".  They have not won anything since 1973 and have actually lost a lot of the support they used to have for their "cause".  (That would beDestroying Israel, NOT a return to their homelands by the very few refugees left alive, and much less for a negotiable peace treaty which would allow all Palestinians in Gaza to live a peaceful and successful life away from the teachings of "kill the Jews" and "they stole our land" which has very few Arabs there very wealthy and the rest in an almost miserable poverty)

You live in the same fantasy world as they do in thinking that Israel is going to continue to allow those groups to exist the way they do.


Will it come as a surprise if there is a final showdown and Hamas is taken to task for the rockets, the infiltration, the "border protests", the incendiary and explosive balloons, etc, etc?


Stay tuned......


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.
> 
> Israel has not won a war since 1973.
> 
> Think about that.
Click to expand...

Israel has not waged a war with the expressed intention of “taking out” Hamas. 

I’ll note that wars of aggression initiated by arabs-Moslems have been disastrous for Arabs-Moslems and victories for Israel. How does it feel to be continual losers?

I’ll note that when Israel has fought skirmishes with the Islamic terrorists of Hamas, it has been Gaza that was remodeled along with large numbers of dead Gazans. How is that working out for you?

What declared war has Israel fought since 1973?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.
> 
> Israel has not won a war since 1973.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has not waged a war with the expressed intention of “taking out” Hamas.
> 
> I’ll note that wars of aggression initiated by arabs-Moslems have been disastrous for Arabs-Moslems and victories for Israel. How does it feel to be continual losers?
> 
> I’ll note that when Israel has fought skirmishes with the Islamic terrorists of Hamas, it has been Gaza that was remodeled along with large numbers of dead Gazans. How is that working out for you?
> 
> What declared war has Israel fought since 1973?
Click to expand...

Israel thinks that bombing the crap out of civilians is winning.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.
> 
> Israel has not won a war since 1973.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To Hamas and other Jihadist groups, the fact that they have not been wiped out is their understanding of "winning".  They have not won anything since 1973 and have actually lost a lot of the support they used to have for their "cause".  (That would beDestroying Israel, NOT a return to their homelands by the very few refugees left alive, and much less for a negotiable peace treaty which would allow all Palestinians in Gaza to live a peaceful and successful life away from the teachings of "kill the Jews" and "they stole our land" which has very few Arabs there very wealthy and the rest in an almost miserable poverty)
> 
> You live in the same fantasy world as they do in thinking that Israel is going to continue to allow those groups to exist the way they do.
> 
> 
> Will it come as a surprise if there is a final showdown and Hamas is taken to task for the rockets, the infiltration, the "border protests", the incendiary and explosive balloons, etc, etc?
> 
> 
> Stay tuned......
Click to expand...


I have to believe that the limited engagement by Israel against Hamas in 2014 was simply a prelude to the mayhem that Israel could unleash if a large, Iranian sponsored Islamic terrorist attack happened.

I suspect our friend P F Tinmore and his heroes in Tehran will gladly sacrifice the lives of thousands of Arabs-Moslems to satiate his deep seated hatred for Jews.

The 2014 drubbing of Gaza might, by comparison, be just the opening engagement of the re-landscaping of Gaza if the Iranians deliver an ultimatum to Hamas / Islamic Jihad that they either attack Israel or lose their welfare payments.


----------



## Hollie

Relations between the Pals and the House of Saud is a bit contentious. 

I suspect that the Saudis have some real concerns with Hamas members being in the kingdom when Iranian backed attacks from Yemen are causing oil production to be cut. The Saudis might view Hamas as agents of Iran wh8 are gathering intelligence. 


Eshki: ‘Palestinian officials knew about their compatriots’ arrest in Saudi Arabia’

The Saudi kingdom has arrested a number of Palestinians suspected of having links to Hamas, as well as a number of Jordanian citizens under the pretext of being involved in fundraising campaigns for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

The “country of Pal’istan”.  *Where dreams come true*™️

Just another failure of Islamism.


----------



## Hollie

Those _Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians™️
_
Can’t we just give them more money?


Corruption in the Palestinian Authority


Its tenth annual report is out, covering 2017 and entitled “Integrity and Combating Corruption.” 

Needless to say, no government is entirely without corruption and the Palestinian Authority suffers from unique disadvantages: it is not a state, it does not have control over the territory it supposedly governs (the Israeli military is the ultimate authority in the West Bank), it must deal with Hamas in Gaza, and so on.




Wait, what? I thought the “country of Pal’istan” was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## Hollie

This is positive as far as it goes but in an Islamic terrorist controlled mini-caliphate, I find it difficult to believe that the female victim's family will receive justice. 


Murder charges for Palestinian 'honour killing'

Relatives of a Palestinian woman whose death was labelled an honour killing by activists have been charged with her murder.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.
> 
> Israel has not won a war since 1973.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To Hamas and other Jihadist groups, the fact that they have not been wiped out is their understanding of "winning".  They have not won anything since 1973 and have actually lost a lot of the support they used to have for their "cause".  (That would beDestroying Israel, NOT a return to their homelands by the very few refugees left alive, and much less for a negotiable peace treaty which would allow all Palestinians in Gaza to live a peaceful and successful life away from the teachings of "kill the Jews" and "they stole our land" which has very few Arabs there very wealthy and the rest in an almost miserable poverty)
> 
> You live in the same fantasy world as they do in thinking that Israel is going to continue to allow those groups to exist the way they do.
> 
> 
> Will it come as a surprise if there is a final showdown and Hamas is taken to task for the rockets, the infiltration, the "border protests", the incendiary and explosive balloons, etc, etc?
> 
> 
> Stay tuned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the limited engagement by Israel against Hamas in 2014 was simply a prelude to the mayhem that Israel could unleash if a large, Iranian sponsored Islamic terrorist attack happened.
> 
> I suspect our friend P F Tinmore and his heroes in Tehran will gladly sacrifice the lives of thousands of Arabs-Moslems to satiate his deep seated hatred for Jews.
> 
> The 2014 drubbing of Gaza might, by comparison, be just the opening engagement of the re-landscaping of Gaza if the Iranians deliver an ultimatum to Hamas / Islamic Jihad that they either attack Israel or lose their welfare payments.
Click to expand...

Israel thinks that bombing the crap out of civilians is winning.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is stuck between ideology and Gaza's people

Hamas is stuck between ideology and Gaza's people

First off, Hamas has grotesquely mismanaged the Gazan economy. Failing to empower business formation and instead embracing corruption and patronage, Hamas makes it extraordinarily difficult to find a decent job in Gaza. The absence of a functioning economy has meant goods shortages are far worse than they would be under the Israeli blockade alone. Palestinians recognize as much, especially in regards to Hamas' corrupt control over the economy (which is similar to that of Iran's revolutionary guards).

Still, even were it to recognize its own failings, Hamas couldn't fix the situation. After all, its senior leaders, Khaled Mashal and Islmail Haniyeh, are the primary beneficiaries of the corruption!

But that's just half of Hamas', and Gaza's, problem.

In Hamas' dedication to Israel's destruction, the group inevitably also destroys political space for compromises with the Israeli government. The comparative economic and political benefits that Israel affords the non-absolutist Fatah in the West Bank offers a stark example of how Hamas could improve Gaza were it not so fanatical.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Islamic Jihad understand that Iranian welfare money is attached to an expectation that the money is attached to attacks aimed at Israel. An escalation of Islamic terrorist attacks presumes a response by Israel. At some point, the Israeli population is going to require an end to the (seemingly) endless Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/13/hamas-knows-another-war-is-coming-with-or-without-netanyahu/
> 
> Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other armed groups in the Gaza Strip believe another large-scale confrontation with Israel is bound to happen regardless of who wins the Sept. 17 election.
> 
> The only question is whether Israel will launch a ground offensive over a protracted several-day period rather than just engage in quick maneuvers, mostly from the air.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times has Israel tried to take out Hamas and failed? The last time Israel went in on the ground they got their ass kicked.
> 
> Israel has not won a war since 1973.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To Hamas and other Jihadist groups, the fact that they have not been wiped out is their understanding of "winning".  They have not won anything since 1973 and have actually lost a lot of the support they used to have for their "cause".  (That would beDestroying Israel, NOT a return to their homelands by the very few refugees left alive, and much less for a negotiable peace treaty which would allow all Palestinians in Gaza to live a peaceful and successful life away from the teachings of "kill the Jews" and "they stole our land" which has very few Arabs there very wealthy and the rest in an almost miserable poverty)
> 
> You live in the same fantasy world as they do in thinking that Israel is going to continue to allow those groups to exist the way they do.
> 
> 
> Will it come as a surprise if there is a final showdown and Hamas is taken to task for the rockets, the infiltration, the "border protests", the incendiary and explosive balloons, etc, etc?
> 
> 
> Stay tuned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have to believe that the limited engagement by Israel against Hamas in 2014 was simply a prelude to the mayhem that Israel could unleash if a large, Iranian sponsored Islamic terrorist attack happened.
> 
> I suspect our friend P F Tinmore and his heroes in Tehran will gladly sacrifice the lives of thousands of Arabs-Moslems to satiate his deep seated hatred for Jews.
> 
> The 2014 drubbing of Gaza might, by comparison, be just the opening engagement of the re-landscaping of Gaza if the Iranians deliver an ultimatum to Hamas / Islamic Jihad that they either attack Israel or lose their welfare payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel thinks that bombing the crap out of civilians is winning.
Click to expand...


Your hurt feelings are misdirected. Take responsibility for your Islamic terrorist heroes waging war from civilian areas.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you have this backward _(180º out of phase with the humanitarian law)_.




​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel thinks that bombing the crap out of civilians is winning.


*(COMMENT)*

And the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) of the Gaza Strip think that by placing the location of key targetable interests and objective in proximity the innocent, the Israelis, in an attempt to engage HoAP elements, will either:

◈  The consequences will result in  the collateral damage of civilian objects and death of non-combatants.  This is used by the HoAP for propaganda purposes.
- OR -​◈   The consequences will result in the use of the event to effectively shield key targetable interests and objective from engagement.
- OR • BOTH -​
The terms "winning or losing" are obsolete when addressing low-intensity conflicts and internal defense /security operations.  Neither side have wins or losses; just one side suffers more losses than the opponent.

The use of the innocent and the non-combatants to gain political/military advantages, in the fashion of the HoAP provoked confrontations, exhibits the easily recognizable and traditional practices of humanity shown towards the well being of civilians and citizens → that are absent in the actions of the HoAP practices and activities.  The attempt by the HoAP to use a self-imposed plight to justify immoral activities is evidence in itself that the ideas set forth by our friend "P F Tinmore" are a product of degeneration in the humanity in the culture of the Arab Palestinians.


.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Again, this is an example in which the culture itself sees no dishonor to kill helpless members of the family.  It is a culture in which "life" is not held precious.  



Hollie said:


> Murder charges for Palestinian 'honour killing'
> 
> Relatives of a Palestinian woman whose death was labelled an honour killing by activists have been charged with her murder.


*(COMMENT)*

Rational and justifiable deviations from the more advanced and evolved moral views is the cause, in part, by a retarded development in social conditions of the Arab Palestinian culture.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you have this backward _(180º out of phase with the humanitarian law)_.
> 
> View attachment 279315​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks that bombing the crap out of civilians is winning.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) of the Gaza Strip thick that by placing the location of key targetable interests and objective in proximity the innocent, the Israelis, in an attempt to engage HoAP elements, will either:
> 
> ◈  The consequences will result in  the collateral damage of civilian objects and death of non-combatants.  This is used by the HoAP for propaganda purposes.
> - OR -​◈   The consequences will result in the use of the event to effectively shield key targetable interests and objective from engagement.
> - OR • BOTH -​
> The terms "winning or losing" are obsolete when addressing low-intensity conflicts and internal defense /security operations.  Neither side have wins or losses; just one side suffers more losses than the opponent.
> 
> The use of the innocent and the non-combatants to gain political/military advantages, in the fashion of the HoAP provoked confrontations, exhibits the easily recognizable and traditional practices of humanity shown towards the well being of civilians and citizens → that are absent in the actions of the HoAP practices and activities.  The attempt by the HoAP to use a self-imposed plight to justify immoral activities is evidence in itself that the ideas set forth by our friend "P F Tinmore" are a product of degeneration in the humanity in the culture of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> .........View attachment 279336
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More Israeli BS talking points.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> More Israeli BS talking points.


*(COMMENT)*

So, have you sent the list of "Talking Points" you keep referring to?

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli BS talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, have you sent the list of "Talking Points" you keep referring to?
> 
> .........View attachment 279350
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There are so many so let's take a few from the top.

A land without people for a people without land. (Palestine and Palestinians did not exist.)
Five "Arab" armies attacked Israel in 1948.
The "Arabs" lost the 1948 war.
You're welcome.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli BS talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, have you sent the list of "Talking Points" you keep referring to?
> 
> .........View attachment 279350
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are so many so let's take a few from the top.
> 
> A land without people for a people without land. (Palestine and Palestinians did not exist.)
> Five "Arab" armies attacked Israel in 1948.
> The "Arabs" lost the 1948 war.
> You're welcome.
Click to expand...


I assume you have a YouTube video collection available to address your talking points?


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely folks. 

Child “martyrs”, “honor” killing, welfare fraud, corruption....definitely a State worthy bunch. 
*


Abbas dictates content of PA media: 
Promote terrorists*

Abbas dictates content of PA media: Promote terrorists - PMW Bulletins

Abbas instructed media to "represent the cause of the Martyrs, 
the wounded, and the prisoners"
Head of official PA media honored for 
"the role the official media plays in serving the Martyrs 
and their families and the prisoners and their families"

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
Palestinian Authority media is controlled by PA Chairman Abbas himself. A statement by the General Supervisor of the Official PA Media Ahmad Assaf who has the rank of minister and was appointed by Abbas demonstrates that Abbas actively involves himself in determining the content of the official PA media:
"Assaf expressed his pride that *the official media is representing the cause of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners under the instructions of [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas, who is constantly reemphasizing that this is our people's most important cause*."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, July 26, 2019


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, this is so rediculous.



P F Tinmore said:


> There are so many so let's take a few from the top.
> 
> A land without people for a people without land. (Palestine and Palestinians did not exist.)
> Five "Arab" armies attacked Israel in 1948.
> The "Arabs" lost the 1948 war.
> You're welcome.


*(COMMENT)*

✦  The first one is a bumper sticker slogan.   You need to get real.  It's like saying HAMAS are not Terrorist.  it is just a slogan.

✦  If you are going to deny that the Arab League nations crossed outside their borders and into the territory against Israel, well there is nothing I can say. 



			
				UPI[SIZE=4] Arab nations Attack Israel[/SIZE] said:
			
		

> TEL AVIV, May 15, 1948 (UP) -- The battle for Palestine was on today with troops from Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq converging against the Jewish defenders of the new state of Israel.
> 
> Arab planes bombed Tel Aviv three times and one Egyptian pilot was taken prisoner when his plane was forced down just north of the new Jewish capital.
> 
> The Egyptian government in Cairo announced officially that Egyptian planes raided the newborn state of Israel in the forefront of an Arab attack from all sides, including one raid on a Jewish airdrome outside Tel Aviv.
> 
> Two Egyptian ground forces, with infantry and artillery, drove across the borders of Palestine, and Cairo report claimed that one of them "wiped out" the Jewish village of Auja, on the road to Beersheba, when its defenders refused to surrender.
> 
> Jewish sources here had no information on this fighting. Auja is just across the Palestine border from Sinai, and would have been in Jewish territory under the United Nations partition plan.
> SOURCE:  *United Press International Archive 15 May 1948* •


 
✦  Again, wins and losses are obsolete terms to quibble about a half-centery (plus) after the fact.  What is meant by that "win" is that the ISraelis successfully defended their nation and actually controlled more territory then it started with. By loss, it is meant to convey the notion that the Hostile Arab Palestinians did not achieve their goal and that the Arab Palestines, once offered their allotment, the territory was in control of the Arab League and not them.

These things you mentioned are not talking points, but merely historical facts in self-evident fashion.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, this is so rediculous.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are so many so let's take a few from the top.
> 
> A land without people for a people without land. (Palestine and Palestinians did not exist.)
> Five "Arab" armies attacked Israel in 1948.
> The "Arabs" lost the 1948 war.
> You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✦  The first one is a bumper sticker slogan.   You need to get real.  It's like saying HAMAS are not Terrorist.  it is just a slogan.
> 
> ✦  If you are going to deny that the Arab League nations crossed outside their borders and into the territory against Israel, well there is nothing I can say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPI[SIZE=4] Arab nations Attack Israel[/SIZE] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEL AVIV, May 15, 1948 (UP) -- The battle for Palestine was on today with troops from Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq converging against the Jewish defenders of the new state of Israel.
> 
> Arab planes bombed Tel Aviv three times and one Egyptian pilot was taken prisoner when his plane was forced down just north of the new Jewish capital.
> 
> The Egyptian government in Cairo announced officially that Egyptian planes raided the newborn state of Israel in the forefront of an Arab attack from all sides, including one raid on a Jewish airdrome outside Tel Aviv.
> 
> Two Egyptian ground forces, with infantry and artillery, drove across the borders of Palestine, and Cairo report claimed that one of them "wiped out" the Jewish village of Auja, on the road to Beersheba, when its defenders refused to surrender.
> 
> Jewish sources here had no information on this fighting. Auja is just across the Palestine border from Sinai, and would have been in Jewish territory under the United Nations partition plan.
> SOURCE:  *United Press International Archive 15 May 1948* •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ✦  Again, wins and losses are obsolete terms to quibble about a half-centery (plus) after the fact.  What is meant by that "win" is that the ISraelis successfully defended their nation and actually controlled more territory then it started with. By loss, it is meant to convey the notion that the Hostile Arab Palestinians did not achieve their goal and that the Arab Palestines, once offered their allotment, the territory was in control of the Arab League and not them.
> 
> These things you mentioned are not talking points, but merely historical facts in self-evident fashion.
> 
> ........View attachment 279389
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ✦ The first one is a bumper sticker slogan. You need to get real. It's like saying HAMAS are not Terrorist. it is just a slogan.



Get serious. Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians.



RoccoR said:


> ✦ If you are going to deny that the Arab League nations crossed outside their borders and into the territory against Israel, well there is nothing I can say.



You are changing what I said.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Get serious. Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians.



That’s a rather ignorant statement as Israel has entered into a number of agreements /accords with Palestinians.

I’m sure there are YouTube videos to lend you an assist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get serious. Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s a rather ignorant statement as Israel has entered into a number of agreements /accords with Palestinians.
> 
> I’m sure there are YouTube videos to lend you an assist.
Click to expand...




Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine

One could say that the Palestinians have denied the existence of Israel.  His " excuse" is that Abbas is  correct however that's not true.  As of May 14, 1948 the International Community thought differently


----------



## Hollie

Another humiliation and Hamas is looking to do damage control. 



Hamas on advocacy blitz to counter exposé of corruption by 2nd ‘Son of Hamas’

Terror group launches public display of support for co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef after a second of his sons tells Israeli TV of its cynicism and his disillusionment


----------



## Hollie

Tough thing being a female and on the busuness end of an islamic terrorist vendetta. 



Gaza reporter who alleged Hamas corruption appeals prison sentence |  | AW

‘The authorities in Gaza are blatantly seeking to punish her for exposing corruption within the Hamas administration,’ says Amnesty International.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Back in February, it was reported that the PA had cut the salaries to terrorists and their families - but only for those who belonged to president Mahmoud Abbas' political opponents in Gaza, including former Fatah members, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. At the time the cuts were blamed by PA officials as a "technical fault."

It was no such thing. By summer, it was clear that the salaries were not going to be paid for some 2700"martyrs", prisoners and their families. These included members of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and followers of Abbas' political rival Mohammed Dahlan, going back to late 2018.

Abbas similarly cut salaries completely to workers in Gaza as well, while he cut the salaries of those in the West Bank by 50%.

Suddenly, the "moral" stance of Mohammed Abbas where he claimed he would prioritize paying "martyrs" over all others only applies to members of his own Fatah faction.

(full article online)

Abbas DID cut some payments to terrorists and their families - but only for his political opponents ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

In view of the millions of dollars per month that Iran is showering on Hamas and islamic Jihad, the Pal'istanians are going to have to bear the consequences of the attacks on Israel that the Iranian mullahs are going to require. 

As events have played out in the islamic dictatorships for decades, the islamic terrorist leadership will get rich on foreign welfare money while Pal'istanians complain about their economic hardships. 

As we see with regularity, the greatest oppressors of Arabs-Moslems are Arab (and Persian) Moslems. 





Top IDF Official Warns Gazans: Iran Using Hamas to Take Control of Strip

A top IDF official issued a warning to the residents of the Gaza Strip on Tuesday about Iran’s influence there.

Maj. Gen. Kamil Abu Rukon — head of the Coordinator of the Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) unit — said in an Arabic-language video, “Iran is trying to take control of the Strip.”

He cited recent statements by Saleh al-Arouri during a visit to Tehran, in which the top Hamas official said his group was Iran’s “first line of defense.”

Rukon also cited a statement by an Iranian diplomat to the effect that Iran wanted to create “a united military front from Tehran to Gaza.”


----------



## Hollie

More of the psychopathic behavior that seems to grip the more excitable of the islamic terrorists. 


*Islamic Jihad hints it may strike Israel in case of US-Iran war*

Islamic Jihad hints it may strike Israel in case of US-Iran war | The Times of Israel

Member of Gaza-based terror group vows not to 'abandon' Tehran if there's a conflict; Hamas: 'We don’t have to be dragged into a war with Israel' if Iran attacked


----------



## Hollie

Let's be honest: Cairo is not just "wary" about the islamic terroists in Hamas aligning with Iran, they see a hated enemy in Iran just next door.

A real opportunity for Israel to strengthen ties and alliances with Egypt sharing intelligence and sharing common interests with Iran as a threat to both nations.


Cairo wary of Hamas reviving ties with Tehran | Amr Emam | AW


In Tehran, the Hamas delegation members met with a host of Iranian officials, including Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.
Saturday 03/08/2019




Rising concerns. Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (R) meets with Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh Arouri (2nd R) and other members of a Hamas delegation in Tehran, July 22. (Reuters)
CAIRO - Egyptian political analysts warned of an increase of Iranian influence in the Gaza Strip, referring to potential instability in the region and deterioration of relations between Hamas and Egypt.

“The return of Iranian influence to the Gaza Strip will adversely affect the region,” political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan said. “Apart from potentially ending the calm between Hamas and Israel, this influence will harm Egypt’s relations with Hamas.”

Egypt watched closely as a delegation from Hamas visited Tehran on July 20, the first such trip since December 2017. The delegation was led by Hamas Politburo Deputy Chairman Saleh al-Arouri.


----------



## Hollie

I don't believe it was unknown to anyone that the slogan "I blame the Jews" has been a convenient excuse for arabs -Moslems to explain their failures and incompetence. 

I also don't believe that Arabs-Moslems are equipped to accept responsibility for their failures.


Corruption: A major cause of Palestinian suffering - documentary

For decades, to divert the attention of the media, the international community and their people, all they had to do was accuse Israel of all their ills.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abu Sharif said that that Arafat renounced the Oslo agreement from the time that he discovered the supposed deception, and he "decided to complete the path of struggle through a number of popular waves, be it the (Western Wall) Tunnel riots or the Second Intifada."

The Western Wall Tunnel Riots were in September 1996, months before the Hebron Agreement, so the timing here is a bit off. Nevertheless, here is an Arafat aide that says that Arafat planned the Second Intifada at the height of the Oslo "peace" process, and three years before the Camp David summit.

There is far more independent evidence that Arafat was behind the Second Intifada. Hamas admits openly that Arafat instructed them to start attacking Jews. Arafat's wife Suha says that he warned her to leave Palestine after Camp David's failure because he planned to start an intifada.

Even if Abu Sharif is making this entire story up, it shows that Palestinian leadership is proud of violence and killing Jews.

(full article online)

Aide says Arafat planned the Second Intifada as early as 1997 ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Linda Sarsour presumably feels she and groups like AMP are on the right side of history, Bari Weiss can only be commended for being on the other side. What angers Sarsour so much is that Weiss doesn’t buy into the illusion promoted by many of today’s self-described “progressives,” who insist that the oldest hatred stopped evolving with the Nazis and, therefore, only right-wing Nazi-style antisemitism deserves to be considered dangerous. But as Bari Weiss points out, “Neo-Nazis, in a way, are straightforward. We know they wish us dead. Antisemites with PhDs, the ones who defend their bigotry as enlightened thinking, are harder to fight.”

Linda Sarsour may not have a PhD, but she’s still rather good at defending her hatred for the world’s only Jewish state and her whitewashing of murderous Islamist Jew-hatred as enlightened thinking. And she arguably deserves a dishonorary PhD in hypocrisy and cynicism for pretending to cheer Bernie Sanders’ candidacy as a historic Jewish milestone, while dismissing mainstream Jewish concerns about contemporary antisemitism as “being on the wrong side of history.”

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour — It’s You and Not Bari Weiss Who Is on the Wrong Side of History


----------



## Sixties Fan

In other words, Israel has no right to build a Holocaust museum because the bulk of the event happened in Europe, and has nothing to do with the Jewish state.
That's not all:

The exploitation of the idea of the Holocaust by Zionism is to obtain financial compensation from Europe and America, in addition to facilitating immigration to Israel before declaring a Jewish state at the time to compensate the Holocaust. ...Readers of Al Quds learn that there was nothing special about the Holocaust - the number of Jews killed might not be accurate, and Nazis killed Poles and gays and the handicapped and Russians.

The article then goes on to quote a Nazi in a war crimes trial as saying that racism is a staple of Western thought, and Nazi persecution of Jews is therefore no big deal. Al Quds goes on to then say that the idea of Jews as a chosen people is an outgrowth of this Western racism, and is used to justify massacres of Palestinians.

In fact, the article says that the museum doesn't mention the "holocaust" of Israel against the indigenous Canaanites of the land.

Of course, everything is ultimately about Palestinians.

(full article online)

Most popular Palestinian newspaper attacks Yad Vashem Holocaust museum ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

To be sure, some professional photographers have managed to get similar shots, because it is dramatic to juxtapose the two domes. But Erakat didn't choose his photo for its aesthetic qualities - he has specifically looked for and chosen a shot that makes Jerusalem look Arab Christian and Arab Muslim, with the deliberate aim of erasing Jerusalem's Jewish character altogether.

(full article online)

Saeb Erekat's Twitter profile pic works hard to erase Jews from Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I think it's safe to say that the Iranian Mullocrats are not going to be happy with their competiing islamic terrorist occupation forces.



https://www.jewishpress.com/news/ey...uav-mistaking-it-for-idf-aircraft/2019/09/14/

The Popular Front announced Saturday evening that it downed an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV, or drone) earlier in the day in Gaza.

Although the assumption at the time was that the drone was operated by the Israel Defense Forces, Israel’s military said it was unfamiliar with the incident.

Sources in Gaza later said the drone was operated by an Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist (PIJ) organization unit in the area of Khan Younis, according to a report published by _Haaretz_.


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas terror organization on Wednesday morning launched a rocket from the Gaza Strip into the sea.


----------



## Sixties Fan

News the media ignores: Most Palestinians agree PA government and courts are corrupt, want Abbas to resign, say they have no free speech ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why does the PA exist?  It came to be to create a peaceful generation to live next to Israel.  Instead.......loads of borrowed money to pay Arabs to kill Jews, and an education to match....
So.....why does the PA continue to exist?  ]

"The Palestinian Authority faces a financing gap that could exceed $1.8 billion for 2019, driven by declining aid flows and the unresolved transfer of taxes and import duties collect by Israel on behalf of the PA," it wrote.

"The outlook for the Palestinian territories is worrisome," Kanthan Shankar, World Bank country director for the “West Bank” and Gaza, said in a statement accompanying the report.

"The severe liquidity squeeze has started to affect the PA's ability to fulfill its responsibilities of paying its civil servants and providing public services."

The bank's report will be presented to the international donor group for Palestinians, known as the Ad Hoc Liaison Committee, at its meeting next week in New York.

(full article online)

World Bank: PA economy in deep crisis


----------



## Hollie

It's Allah's way of saying _gee-had denied_. 




Hamas Tries to Fire Rockets at Israel, They Backfire and Fall in Gaza injuring 7


----------



## Hollie

I’m not sure what the fuss is about. Islamic dictators ruling mini-caliphates are pretty typical in the usual Islamist dystopia. 
*



Deposed Fatah strongman slams ‘fascist, corrupt’ PA*

Mohammad Dahlan says Palestinians should not blame Israel alone for their ‘disasters,’ criticizes Qatar for ‘politically motivated’ Gaza aid


----------



## Hollie

Indeed, “Peace in the Middle East” is something of a misnomer. More frequent ceasefires may be the best one can hope for. Iranian ambitions, a resurgent ISIS, Sunni / Salafi intransigence and an overall inability of the Arabs-Moslems to stop slaughtering each other likely means more of the same for the foreseeable future. 




We Really Need to Talk About Corruption - The Tower

The U.S. has made Israeli-Palestinian peace into a top priority. But how can you build a legitimate, peaceful state out of a kleptocratic regime?


----------



## Hollie

I always have this image in my head of Abu and his gaggle of fellow welfare fraud crooks arriving for media events in a clown car. 



*Abbas Tries to Convince the Palestinian Public He’s Not Corrupt*

Abbas Tries to Convince the Palestinian Public He’s Not Corrupt






Abbas meeting with public sector employees. (_WAFA, 2017_)

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has fired all of his advisers and ordered former Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah and the ministers of his previous government to return the unusual increases in salary that they received.


----------



## Hollie

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that islamic dictatorships suppress the freedoms that westerners take for granted. 

Declaring that one is explicitly free to make personal decisions about the religious faith they embrace is a hallmark of Western liberal democracy. It’s also a hallmark of an ethical and moral society that does not compel that all _must_ Kowtow to any specific religion, In the free world, we often call forced religion _eccentric_ or _hateful_ or even _totalitarian_. In many locations within the happy fun moslem Middle East, notions of freedom of religion are dealt with as an imprisonable offense (or a capital offense, if the right people get their hands on you).






The lack of democracy and fundamental freedoms in the Palestinian territories

The lack of democracy and fundamental freedoms in the Palestinian territories

Laws and societal norms in the West Bank and Gaza derive in part from Sharia law, which puts women at a disadvantage in matters such as marriage and divorce. Accordingly, rape and domestic violence remain underreported and frequently go unpunished as authorities are allegedly reluctant to pursue such cases. The Palestinian leadership makes little effort to address the rights of marginalized groups within Palestinian society. While women enjoy formal political equality under PA laws, and some women did win seats in the PLC in 2006, women are mostly excluded from leadership positions in Hamas and absent from public political events in practice. Palestinian women are also underrepresented in most professions and encounter discrimination in employment.


----------



## Hollie

Listen to a Palestinian leader

*Listen to a Palestinian leader*
He is in Hamas prison now for telling the truth about Hamas in Gaza.

Abu Safiyeh, is a representative of the PLO's Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in the Gaza Strip.

He was arrested after he published a Facebook post criticizing Hamas corruption.

Here are some of the things he wrote that got him thrown into Palestinian prison by Hamas:

_"Fifteen years ago, Hamas raised the slogan of 'Islam is the solution' -- the solution to liberate all Palestine and not give up an inch;_

_the solution to eliminate cronyism and corruption;_

_the solution to bring economic and social security;_

_the solution to a happy and enjoyable life._

_Hamas came to power through deception and after having misled the people. Now, there is rampant corruption [under Hamas]. The corruption is in all institutions, including the judiciary and the police. Today, the corruption is organized and managed by Hamas._

_The corruption is at the top of the pyramid. It is the corruption of politics, the corruption in the administration, the corruption in employment, the corruption in relief aid._


----------



## Sixties Fan

"We talked about the general situation of Palestinian refugees who have been living in Lebanon for the past 72 years. We told them that Palestinians in Lebanon are banned from working in 70 professions and have no right to own property. We gave them a list of 2,300 Palestinian refugees from Syria who want to go to Canada." — Mu'awya Abu Hamideh, a representative of the Palestinian refugees who fled from Syria to Lebanon after 2011, akhbarten.com, September 9, 2019


Human Rights Watch says that Palestinian refugees in Lebanon live in "appalling social and economic conditions" and are barred from employment in at least 25 professions, "including law, medicine, and engineering."


"The Palestinian factions and others who benefit from our stay in Lebanon are denouncing us as traitors and of serving foreign agendas... but if anyone has another solution, he should bring it to the table. We are sure, however, that these voices are designed to prevent us from living in dignity." — Mu'awya Abu Hamideh.


Instead of encouraging and assisting their people to move on with their lives and seek a better future for their children, Hamas and other Palestinian groups continue to lie to the refugees by promising them that one day they will go back to their villages and towns in Israel.


(full article online)

Do Palestinian Leaders Want a Better Life for Their People?


----------



## Hollie

I’m not sure that groups such as Transparency.org appreciate just how authoritarian and corrupt the PA and Hamas truly are. 




The Palestinian Authority should amend laws to protect free speech

Transparency International, the global anti-corruption movement, is deeply concerned about the latest escalation in attacks on media freedom and free speech in Palestine and is calling for the Palestinian Authority (PA) to amend the Electronic Crimes Law and suspend the new requirement for journalists to have security certificates to work.


----------



## Hollie

It really is a shame that the fraud of generational Arab-Moslem “refugees” has become an institutionalized welfare fraud syndicate. 





The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees faces another crisis

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...an-refugees-faces-another-corruption-scandal/

An ethics report detailing serious abuses of power has only added to the agency’s woes.

This summer, the top management of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) were accused of serious abuses of power, including sexual misconduct, nepotism, bullying and retaliation. Al Jazeera reported that the agency’s ethics department made these claims in a recent report.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I’m not sure that groups such as Transparency.org appreciate just how authoritarian and corrupt the PA and Hamas truly are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority should amend laws to protect free speech
> 
> Transparency International, the global anti-corruption movement, is deeply concerned about the latest escalation in attacks on media freedom and free speech in Palestine and is calling for the Palestinian Authority (PA) to amend the Electronic Crimes Law and suspend the new requirement for journalists to have security certificates to work.


So, Israel does the same thing.

What is your point.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure that groups such as Transparency.org appreciate just how authoritarian and corrupt the PA and Hamas truly are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority should amend laws to protect free speech
> 
> Transparency International, the global anti-corruption movement, is deeply concerned about the latest escalation in attacks on media freedom and free speech in Palestine and is calling for the Palestinian Authority (PA) to amend the Electronic Crimes Law and suspend the new requirement for journalists to have security certificates to work.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Israel does the same thing.
> 
> What is your point.
Click to expand...


In Israel the mass media is free to thrash the govt day and night, and give stage to political opposition,
while under the PA they only allow the "party line" to be heard.

Can You show me one program on Hamas/PA TV that allows criticism?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure that groups such as Transparency.org appreciate just how authoritarian and corrupt the PA and Hamas truly are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority should amend laws to protect free speech
> 
> Transparency International, the global anti-corruption movement, is deeply concerned about the latest escalation in attacks on media freedom and free speech in Palestine and is calling for the Palestinian Authority (PA) to amend the Electronic Crimes Law and suspend the new requirement for journalists to have security certificates to work.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Israel does the same thing.
> 
> What is your point.
Click to expand...


Your comment makes no sense. 

What is your point?


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems seem pretty ungrateful. To suggest that their dictator doesn’t have their best interests at heart is, is know, islamophobic, definitely racist, maybe even anti-Islamic.  

I suspect that new tires and a brake job for Abu’s presidential jet are pretty expensive. After all, the Dictator for life, president of the “country of Pally’land” (invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne, in case you didn’t know), has a certain image to maintain. 



Wary of PA ‘corruption,’ Palestinians launch protest of new social security law

Wary of PA ‘corruption,’ Palestinians launch protest of new social security law

‘Blue gloves’ demonstrators, inspired by yellow vests protests, say they do not trust a PA-created institution to handle their money and cannot afford to pay more taxes


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure that groups such as Transparency.org appreciate just how authoritarian and corrupt the PA and Hamas truly are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority should amend laws to protect free speech
> 
> Transparency International, the global anti-corruption movement, is deeply concerned about the latest escalation in attacks on media freedom and free speech in Palestine and is calling for the Palestinian Authority (PA) to amend the Electronic Crimes Law and suspend the new requirement for journalists to have security certificates to work.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Israel does the same thing.
> 
> What is your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your comment makes no sense.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...

Not to you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure that groups such as Transparency.org appreciate just how authoritarian and corrupt the PA and Hamas truly are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority should amend laws to protect free speech
> 
> Transparency International, the global anti-corruption movement, is deeply concerned about the latest escalation in attacks on media freedom and free speech in Palestine and is calling for the Palestinian Authority (PA) to amend the Electronic Crimes Law and suspend the new requirement for journalists to have security certificates to work.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Israel does the same thing.
> 
> What is your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your comment makes no sense.
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to you.
Click to expand...


So you agree you have no point.


----------



## Hollie

*Corruption in the Palestinian Authority*

Corruption in the Palestinian Authority










Drawing of the Palestinian Presidential Guest House (PECDAR – Palestinian Economic Council for Development and Reconstruction)

Fatah sources say that Mahmoud Abbas continues to flout Palestinian laws and public norms with regard to moral integrity.
Unlike his predecessor Yasser Arafat, after Abbas retires from political life, he and his children will be remembered as a symbol of Palestinian government corruption.




Abu Mazen, like all the Islamic terrorist welfare crooks / crank Dictators before him will be remembered for the personal fortunes they made as a part of an internationally funded welfare fraud syndicate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

#CloseFatahFB - Demand that Facebook Shut Down the Fatah-Facebook Terror Promotion Partnership. - Action Network


----------



## Hollie

It sounds a bit like Abu Mazen wears many hats in his mini-caliphate. He is both dictator for life and editor-in-charge of the Pal’istan Disinformation Center.  
*

*

*Abbas dictates content of PA media: Promote terrorists |PMW Analysis*

Abbas instructed media to "represent the cause of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners"

Head of official PA media honored for "the role the official media plays in serving the Martyrs and their families and the prisoners and their families"


----------



## Hollie

I suppose Abu will have to issue a statement saying that his presidential jet needs an oil change and tune up. 

Sacrifices for the gee-had must be made for the glory of Abu’s presidential jet 



Israel cuts power in parts of West Bank over debts

Ramallah (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - Israel's national electricity company said Sunday it was cutting power to parts of the occupied West Bank due to outstanding payments amounting to nearly $483 million.

The Israel Electric Corporation said it was owed 1.7 billion shekels in debts from the main Palestinian power distributor for the West Bank, which is based in east Jerusalem.

From Monday, the company "will reduce the current in some areas of the West Bank" because of the debts, it said in a statement.

It said it had found no alternatives to being paid.


----------



## Sixties Fan

But notice is wording. He is not wishing a happy New Year to Jews or the Jewish people, but to "all those who follow the Jewish faith."

Because the official position of the PLO is that there is no such thing as a Jewish people. In the PLO's own words:

" Recognizing the Jewish state implies recognition of a Jewish people and recognition of its right to self-determination. Those who assert this right also assert that the territory historically associated with this right of self-determination (i.e., the self-determination unit) is all of Historic Palestine. Therefore, recognition of the Jewish people and their right of self-determination may lend credence to the Jewish people’s claim to all of Historic Palestine."



According to the PLO, Judaism is merely a religion, because to admit the truth that Jews are a people implies that Jews have a right to a land like all other peoples - and the Jewish claim to their land predates the Arab claim, making it stronger than the flimsy Palestinian claim as a recently created "people."

(full article online)

How even a Rosh Hashana greeting from the PLO's @ErakatSaeb is antisemitic ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sheikh Abu Is rockin’ the house. The good Sheikh hits all the expected topics to include rebuilding the caliphate and fulfilling the promise of the inventor of Islamism by recapturing the waqf of “Pal’istan”.  





Palestinian Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun said in a Friday, September 13, 2019 address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that the current Muslim rulers falsely claim that they are defending the Palestinian cause while actually supporting the Jews and signing agreements with Israel, enabling it to attack Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. Sheikh Baydoun called on the soldiers and officers of the Muslim armies to no longer allow the Muslim rulers to "sell out" Palestine and its people, and he said: "Hasn't the time come for you [to] rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish [a] Caliphate that will mobilize its army and liberate the blessed land of Palestine?"

Video:
"In Al-Aqsa Mosque Address, Palestinian Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun Calls on Soldiers, Officers in Muslim Armies to Overthrow Muslim Leaders, Support Those Who Strive to Establish an Islamic State"


----------



## Hollie

Abbas comes begging. How nice that a representative of _Islamic Terrorism International Inc.,_ is going to grace the Great Satan with his presence. 

A part of his begging before the UN is going to include the usual demands for a generational “right of return” for Arabs-Moslems who have never lived in the Magical Kingdom of “Pal’istan”. 





Palestinians in bid to secure renewal of UNRWA mandate

Palestinian Authority officials said on Saturday that they are hoping to persuade donor countries to continue their financial contributions to the United Nations Work and Relief Agency for Palestinian Refugees.

PA President Mahmoud Abbas and senior Palestinians officials are expected to meet in the coming days with representatives of the donor countries on the sidelines of the 74th session of the UN General Assembly to discuss the issue of UNRWA


----------



## Hollie

Abu was laying on the Taqiyya before the Germans.

Does he not understand such bloviating results in people pointing and laughing at the islamic terrorist?




Palestinian Media Watch

*Abbas’ duplicity: “We battle terror” (but honor terrorists!)*

*Abbas to German leaders:*
*We “act to spread the culture of peace and battle terror in our region and the world”*

*Abbas to Palestinians about terrorists:*
*"We view the Martyrs and prisonersas stars in the sky of the Palestinian people”*
*> Op-ed lauds Abbas as “the president of peace, the human president”*


----------



## Hollie

Odd that Arabs-Moslems have tasked Allah with organizing / providing all those virgins for the sexually repressed Moslem male. 

That doesnt appear very dignified for a god, but, whatever, it's not to be questioned.


----------



## Hollie

Various islamic terrorists may be looking forward to their prayers to Mecca being done from an Israeli slammer.

No more gee-had for these losers. 





Four Hamas members indicted in Beersheba


The suspects — Frij Abu Daher, Malek Abu Mandil, Mahmoud Owidat and Ramadan Abu Gola — reportedly tried to infiltrate Israel in order to escape from Gaza. They get caught by Israeli security forces.

The four were indicted for six security offenses against the state, including participating in the border protests, launching arson balloons, as well as throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and improvised explosive devices.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Various islamic terrorists may be looking forward to their prayers to Mecca being done from an Israeli slammer.
> 
> No more gee-had for these losers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four Hamas members indicted in Beersheba
> 
> 
> The suspects — Frij Abu Daher, Malek Abu Mandil, Mahmoud Owidat and Ramadan Abu Gola — reportedly tried to infiltrate Israel in order to escape from Gaza. They get caught by Israeli security forces.
> 
> The four were indicted for six security offenses against the state, including participating in the border protests, launching arson balloons, as well as throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and improvised explosive devices.



*"FOUR HAMASs members indicted in Beersheeba"*


Just *4* ? ( 

 Frij *Abu* Daher, Malek *Abu* Mandil, Mahmoud Owidat and Ramadan *Abu* Gola)














​


----------



## Hollie

It seems pretty simple. Saudi Arabia is overwhelmingly Sunni / Salafi vs. the Iranian Shia sect. The Sunni and Shia have been waging a 1,400 year old blood feud that routinely results in both groups a'splodin each others adherents at mosques, street markets and other target rich environments. 

With Hamas firmly aligned with Iran, both of those groups become enemies of the KSA. 


*What is behind the Saudi campaign against Hamas?

*
By launching arrests of its supporters and cutting off financial flows to Gaza, Riyadh aims to corner Hamas.

What is behind the Saudi campaign against Hamas?


----------



## Hollie

Just more of the behavior you might expect from a Cult that inculates psychopathic behavior.


*"Machine gun and bullet are essence of the path" - song at PA university graduation ceremony for terrorist prisoners*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Sep 24, 2019

"Machine gun and bullet are essence of the path" - song at PA university graduation ceremony for terrorist prisoners |PMW Analysis



Definately stateworthy folks.


----------



## Hollie

Ah, rewards (carnal rewards) await for the Dead Martyrs Walking.

Gee whiz. Abu is effectively pimping a dating service for gee-had psychopaths and allah's virgins.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## member

Hollie said:


> That doesnt appear very dignified for a god, but, whatever, it's not to be questioned.




he seems to be............

- napping



- snoozing 



- catching a few winks 



_no?_


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

*PA Minister of Culture denies Jewish history: *
*Nothing proves it, they have no connection to history*

PA Minister of Culture denies Jewish history |PMW Analysis


One of the central elements of the Palestinian narrative is the negation of the entire Jewish history in the Land of Israel in general and in Jerusalem in particular. Despite numerous sources and archeological finds proving the opposite, the Palestinian Authority regularly repeats this claim because it is the basis for the PA's denial of Israel's right to exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A new hospital is being completed in Gaza, near the Erez crossing. It will be called the American Hospital after the American NGO Friend Ships, staffed by volunteers who provide humanitarian assistance to people in dire need.

Most of the equipment comes from a field hospital in Syria that is no longer necessary. The medical equipment started arriving today, and the hospital is expected to begin operation within a couple of months.

Israel has approved the hospital, which is funded by Qatar. But the Palestinian Authority bitterly opposed it being built. Back in July, the Palestinian cabinet issued a statement saying “The hospital that Israel and the US are seeking to establish on the northern border of the Gaza Strip is part of ongoing attempts to separate the Gaza Strip and the West Bank under humanitarian pretexts."

I do not recall any condemnations of Mahmoud Abbas or his new prime minister in July for opposing a modern new hospital to help Palestinians.

One gets the impression that Palestinian leaders don't give a damn about their own people. This is hardly the first example - Abbas has limited medicines and medical equipment to Gaza, he has tried to stop Israel providing electricity to the enclave, he opposes Palestinians becoming citizens in Lebanon, he opposed allowing Palestinians in Syria to come to areas he controls unless they can maintain their mythical "right to return" - and thousands are dead as a result.

(full article online)

A new hospital in Gaza that Israel supports - and the Palestinian Authority opposes ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Arabs....Let your people go !  ]

Hamas: 'Palestinian refugees' are leaving Lebanon


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. Those delicate flowers who are parading around as "Pal'istanians" are in a huff about the evil Trump ignoring their presumed status of deserving of special attention.


HAMAS URGES ABBAS TO RENOUNCE OSLO ACCORDS AT UN SPEECH

Hamas urges Abbas to renounce Oslo Accords at UN speech


_PA slams Trump for "intentionally ignoring" Palestinians_


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  et al,

Renouncing the Oslo Accords is hardly a new idea.  Some faction _(or another)_ of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) periodically suggest this.



Hollie said:


> HAMAS URGES ABBAS TO RENOUNCE OSLO ACCORDS AT UN SPEECH
> 
> Hamas urges Abbas to renounce Oslo Accords at UN speech
> 
> _PA slams Trump for "intentionally ignoring" Palestinians_


*(COMMENT)*

The question is, what are the consequences of dissolving the Accords. 

◈  The Accords are _(in part)_ an Agreement between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) •• and _(in part)_ with the Israeli Military Government _(plus the Civil Administration)_ to the Council in accordance with this Agreement Palestinian Council _(the legislative body)_.

◈  The Interim Agreement is the platform on all the issues deferred to the agenda of the permanent status negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest)_.  Not that the Hostile Arab Palestinians ever really attempted to use the Article V options.

◈  The accords create the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Is there anything _(connection, conduit or activity)_ the PA serves today that → once dissolved, would deprive the Ramallah Government in something of a necessity.​
What difference would it make?  With the breaking of the agreement with the PLO, what effect would that have on the joint security agreement? 

Who gains?  
Who benefits? 
And why?​
........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Renouncing the Oslo Accords is hardly a new idea.  Some faction _(or another)_ of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) periodically suggest this.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS URGES ABBAS TO RENOUNCE OSLO ACCORDS AT UN SPEECH
> 
> Hamas urges Abbas to renounce Oslo Accords at UN speech
> 
> _PA slams Trump for "intentionally ignoring" Palestinians_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question is, what are the consequences of dissolving the Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Accords are _(in part)_ an Agreement between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) •• and _(in part)_ with the Israeli Military Government _(plus the Civil Administration)_ to the Council in accordance with this Agreement Palestinian Council _(the legislative body)_.
> 
> ◈  The Interim Agreement is the platform on all the issues deferred to the agenda of the permanent status negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest)_.  Not that the Hostile Arab Palestinians ever really attempted to use the Article V options.
> 
> ◈  The accords create the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Is there anything _(connection, conduit or activity)_ the PA serves today that → once dissolved, would deprive the Ramallah Government in something of a necessity.​
> What difference would it make?  With the breaking of the agreement with the PLO, what effect would that have on the joint security agreement?
> 
> Who gains?
> Who benefits?
> And why?​
> ........View attachment 281007
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oslo is dead, expired, stillborn, whatever.

Oslo was just an excuse for Israel to steal stuff while pretending to be making peace.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Renouncing the Oslo Accords is hardly a new idea.  Some faction _(or another)_ of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) periodically suggest this.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS URGES ABBAS TO RENOUNCE OSLO ACCORDS AT UN SPEECH
> 
> Hamas urges Abbas to renounce Oslo Accords at UN speech
> 
> _PA slams Trump for "intentionally ignoring" Palestinians_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question is, what are the consequences of dissolving the Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Accords are _(in part)_ an Agreement between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) •• and _(in part)_ with the Israeli Military Government _(plus the Civil Administration)_ to the Council in accordance with this Agreement Palestinian Council _(the legislative body)_.
> 
> ◈  The Interim Agreement is the platform on all the issues deferred to the agenda of the permanent status negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest)_.  Not that the Hostile Arab Palestinians ever really attempted to use the Article V options.
> 
> ◈  The accords create the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Is there anything _(connection, conduit or activity)_ the PA serves today that → once dissolved, would deprive the Ramallah Government in something of a necessity.​
> What difference would it make?  With the breaking of the agreement with the PLO, what effect would that have on the joint security agreement?
> 
> Who gains?
> Who benefits?
> And why?​
> ........View attachment 281007
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is dead, expired, stillborn, whatever.
> 
> Oslo was just an excuse for Israel to steal stuff while pretending to be making peace.
Click to expand...


What was stolen? 

This is another unsupported claim.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Renouncing the Oslo Accords is hardly a new idea.  Some faction _(or another)_ of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) periodically suggest this.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question is, what are the consequences of dissolving the Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Accords are _(in part)_ an Agreement between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) •• and _(in part)_ with the Israeli Military Government _(plus the Civil Administration)_ to the Council in accordance with this Agreement Palestinian Council _(the legislative body)_.
> 
> ◈  The Interim Agreement is the platform on all the issues deferred to the agenda of the permanent status negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest)_.  Not that the Hostile Arab Palestinians ever really attempted to use the Article V options.
> 
> ◈  The accords create the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Is there anything _(connection, conduit or activity)_ the PA serves today that → once dissolved, would deprive the Ramallah Government in something of a necessity.​
> What difference would it make?  With the breaking of the agreement with the PLO, what effect would that have on the joint security agreement?
> 
> Who gains?
> Who benefits?
> And why?​
> ........View attachment 281007
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo is dead, expired, stillborn, whatever.
> 
> Oslo was just an excuse for Israel to steal stuff while pretending to be making peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was stolen?
> 
> This is another unsupported claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic trolling with no substance or intelligent response is all You've got?
> Go troll some place other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Appropriate response to a stupid post.
Click to expand...


You keep pathetically repeating,
while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
Do You actually have a point?


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Renouncing the Oslo Accords is hardly a new idea.  Some faction _(or another)_ of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) periodically suggest this.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS URGES ABBAS TO RENOUNCE OSLO ACCORDS AT UN SPEECH
> 
> Hamas urges Abbas to renounce Oslo Accords at UN speech
> 
> _PA slams Trump for "intentionally ignoring" Palestinians_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question is, what are the consequences of dissolving the Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Accords are _(in part)_ an Agreement between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) •• and _(in part)_ with the Israeli Military Government _(plus the Civil Administration)_ to the Council in accordance with this Agreement Palestinian Council _(the legislative body)_.
> 
> ◈  The Interim Agreement is the platform on all the issues deferred to the agenda of the permanent status negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest)_.  Not that the Hostile Arab Palestinians ever really attempted to use the Article V options.
> 
> ◈  The accords create the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Is there anything _(connection, conduit or activity)_ the PA serves today that → once dissolved, would deprive the Ramallah Government in something of a necessity.​
> What difference would it make?  With the breaking of the agreement with the PLO, what effect would that have on the joint security agreement?
> 
> Who gains?
> Who benefits?
> And why?​
> ........View attachment 281007
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I view the events surrounding Oslo as a demonstration of the potential for a lasting peace. However, I think it was naive to believe that Arafat would be a reliable participant. 

The occasional threats by the Arabs-Moslems to "renounce" Oslo is empty rhetoric as the PLO is little more than a label for historical baggage.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Renouncing the Oslo Accords is hardly a new idea.  Some faction _(or another)_ of the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) periodically suggest this.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question is, what are the consequences of dissolving the Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Accords are _(in part)_ an Agreement between the Government of the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) •• and _(in part)_ with the Israeli Military Government _(plus the Civil Administration)_ to the Council in accordance with this Agreement Palestinian Council _(the legislative body)_.
> 
> ◈  The Interim Agreement is the platform on all the issues deferred to the agenda of the permanent status negotiations _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest)_.  Not that the Hostile Arab Palestinians ever really attempted to use the Article V options.
> 
> ◈  The accords create the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Is there anything _(connection, conduit or activity)_ the PA serves today that → once dissolved, would deprive the Ramallah Government in something of a necessity.​
> What difference would it make?  With the breaking of the agreement with the PLO, what effect would that have on the joint security agreement?
> 
> Who gains?
> Who benefits?
> And why?​
> ........View attachment 281007
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo is dead, expired, stillborn, whatever.
> 
> Oslo was just an excuse for Israel to steal stuff while pretending to be making peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was stolen?
> 
> This is another unsupported claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a shame your are reduced to emotional outbursts when you are challenged with supporting your claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sky is blue.
> 
> Now, do you want me to support my claim?
Click to expand...


You have a history of making baseless claims you cannot support. 

You were tasked, again, with supporting your claim and you could not.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the islamic terrorist thought the results of islamic terrorism would be different.


----------



## Hollie

An obvious, common sense request that has been acknowledged by several nations which have recognized that their welfare contributions have been used to aid and abet islamic terrorism. 




Greenblatt calls to halt donor funding to PA, Hamas regimes

Donor countries should stop funding the Palestinian Authority and Hamas regimes which is squandering the money, US special envoy Jason Greenblatt said in an opinion piece he published Thursday on the Fox News website.

“Donor countries must ask themselves why they should keep struggling to raise money when everyone can plainly see the Hamas regime and the Palestinian Authority are squandering the opportunities that donor money provides for a better future for all Palestinians,” Greenblatt said.


----------



## Hollie

An angry Abu was lecturing the UN about all things unfair that have fallen on the Arabs-Moslems. It was a lot of angry Abu whining about what he wants and who should be tasked with meeting angry Abu's demands.
*


At UN Abbas rejects Israeli ‘arrogance’, vows to terminate all agreements if Palestinian territory is annexed

At UN Abbas rejects Israeli ‘arrogance’, vows to terminate all agreements if Palestinian territory is annexed.

*
In his speech to the UN General Assembly, Mr. Abbas strongly rejected the “arrogant” pre-election announcement by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s of an “illegal plan” to annex and apply sovereignty over the Jordan Valley, the northern Dead Sea and other Occupied Palestinian Territories.    

Vowing that if any such plan were carried out, by any Israeli Government, Palestine would terminate all previously signed agreements and relevant obligations.

 “What would you do if someone tried…to erase your presence?” he asked the delegations in the Assembly Hall and demanded: “Hasn’t the time come for the emancipation of the Palestinian people and their freedom from this injustice, oppression and occupation?”





Angry Abu whined:
_"What would you do if someone tried…to erase your presence?”_

Good question, Abu. The Israelis ask that question when the Islamo-barbarians are at the border fence.


----------



## Hollie

You may remember that it was angry Abu who posed the question:
_"What would you do if someone tried…to erase your presence?”_

The islamo-barbarians are rioting at the border again. Maybe it's just me but when the angry Muhammuds are attacking your border and trying to erase your presence, you have to defend yourself. 



*Palestinians say 28 injured in riots along Gaza border*

Palestinians say 28 injured in riots along Gaza border

*7,000 take part in weekly protests; several hundred riot, throwing explosive devices and rocks at troops who respond with tear gas and occasional live fire*
By TOI STAFFToday, 7:40 pm  2




Over 7,000 Palestinians took part in weekly protests along the Gaza Strip’s border with Israel on Friday afternoon, the IDF said, with several hundred rioting and throwing rocks and explosives at troops along the border.

The rioters also burned tires and threw fire bombs and one Palestinian briefly crossed into Israeli territory before immediately returning to the other side of the border.

A spokesman for the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry said that 28 Palestinians were injured, including three from live fire.

Also among the injured was a volunteer paramedic who was struck with a teargas canister, the spokesman said.


----------



## Hollie

The rioting will have to wait for these wannabes. They may well be doing their gee-had from an Israeli hoosegow, praying to Mecca over the toilet from cell block "C". 
ISRAEL
*Four Hamas Terrorists to Go on Trial*

Four Hamas Terrorists to Go on Trial | Hamodia.com
By Dov Benovadia

Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 4:01 am | כ"ד אלול תשע"ט



Arab rioters on the Gaza-Israel border in Rafah, Gaza. (Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)
*YERUSHALAYIM* -
Prosecutors on Tuesday filed indictments against four Hamas terrorists. The four are charged with six separate acts of terrorism, including attempting to breach the Gaza border fence, and acquiring and attempting to use weapons in a terror attack.

The four, ranging in ages from 24 through 29, are residents of Gaza who sneaked over the border fence into Israel. They participated in numerous riots between 2016 and 2019 after joining Hamas, throwing rocks and firebombs in attempts to harm Israeli soldiers. They also participated in preparing and dispatching terror balloons, armed with explosives that landed and started fires in forests and farms.


----------



## Hollie

Here’s today’s chapter of “Those Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians”

If only that had more welfare money....



Hollywood Hills corner West Bank: Meet the Palestinian villagers living out the American dream

*Hollywood Hills Corner West Bank: Meet the Palestinian Villagers Living Out the American Dream *

The Palestinian village of Turmus Ayya is empty for most of the year, until its residents return in the summer from the U.S., where they moved to make the big bucks. The Western influence sets them apart from other West Bank communities, but doesn’t help solve many challenges

Patty Nieberg  and Yasmin Zaher  Sep 27, 2019 2:24 PM
 




A villa in Turmus Ayya, September 10, 2019.Patricia Nieberg
Halfway between the West Bank cities of Ramallah and Nablus, the road gives way to an exit unlike any other along Israel’s Highway 60. At first glance, this route — lined with palm trees and polished sidewalks that lead up to lavish stone villas — looks like a well-funded Jewish settlement. But a closer look reveals that unlike other typical settlements, there is no security gate at the entrance to the community and its houses are not lined up in rows along the hilltops.


----------



## Hollie

It’s all fun and gee-had until Muhammud takes one for the Ummah.



*Gazan Killed by Israeli Gunfire in Border Protest, Palestinians Says *
Gazan killed by Israeli gunfire in border protest, Palestinians says

Israeli army says did not use live fire and that protesters hurled explosives, but Gaza Health Ministry says 32 Palestinians sustained wounds from live fire


----------



## Hollie

Another meeting at the UN and another opportunity for the Arabs-Moslems to demonstrate why various nations are withholding their welfare payments. 
*


Danon: Deterioration in Gaza - because of Hamas
*
Danon: Deterioration in Gaza - because of Hamas

The PA spends six percent of its annual budget to pay $4.5 million a month to jailed terroristsand another $6.5 million to their families, yet continues to ask for foreign donations.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Ultimately, each nation (their citizenry) has to decide to whom they will donate fund.

But International law says:

*18. 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*

◈  Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;

◈  Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and

◈  Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.​


Hollie said:


> Another meeting at the UN and another opportunity for the Arabs-Moslems to demonstrate why various nations are withholding their welfare payments.
> 
> The PA spends six percent of its annual budget to pay $4.5 million a month to jailed terroristsand another $6.5 million to their families, yet continues to ask for foreign donations.


*(COMMENT)*

The International Community should give no consideration whatsoever, in attempts at using political, economic, military or liberation as a justification for Criminal Acts directed against Israel (or any other State) with the intention to compel the Israeli Government to adopt some course of action, or some act that furthers the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) criminal objective.

The HoAP may not use the excuse of "Resistance Fighter" to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel) or seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by the State of Israel.  This includes any activity by the HoAP in the form of espionage or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons.  These offenses are prohibited under International Humanitarian Law (IHL); specifical Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. 

..........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Ultimately, each nation (their citizenry) has to decide to whom they will donate fund.
> 
> But International law says:
> 
> *18. 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> ◈  Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ◈  Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
> 
> ◈  Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another meeting at the UN and another opportunity for the Arabs-Moslems to demonstrate why various nations are withholding their welfare payments.
> 
> The PA spends six percent of its annual budget to pay $4.5 million a month to jailed terroristsand another $6.5 million to their families, yet continues to ask for foreign donations.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The International Community should give no consideration whatsoever, in attempts at using political, economic, military or liberation as a justification for Criminal Acts directed against Israel (or any other State) with the intention to compel the Israeli Government to adopt some course of action, or some act that furthers the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) criminal objective.
> 
> The HoAP may not use the excuse of "Resistance Fighter" to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel) or seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by the State of Israel.  This includes any activity by the HoAP in the form of espionage or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons.  These offenses are prohibited under International Humanitarian Law (IHL); specifical Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention
> 
> ..........View attachment 281665
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



"The HoAP may not use the excuse of "Resistance Fighter" to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel) or seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by the State of Israel [. . .] These offenses are prohibited under International Humanitarian Law (IHL); specifical Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention."


*"RESISTENCE FIGHTERS"*




they're just thug-punks with nothing better to do.  following in the footsteps of their predecessors. . .




brainwashed their whole lives....


----------



## Hollie

The IDF is putting the “had” in gee-had.




IDF nabs 8 Hamas 'leaders' in Hebron

The detention of eight Hamas “leaders” in the Hebron area by the IDF won’t intimidate the Palestinians or stop them from “pursuing their national role in defending their land and holy sites,” the terrorist organization said on Saturday.

Palestinian sources said the men were detained during IDF raids on their homes early Saturday in the towns of Dura, Deir Samet, Surif and Idhna in the Hebron area.

The sources identified the Hamas suspects as Mohammed Yusef al-Huroub, Ahmed Dib al-Huroub, Ezz Qassem, Ayed Dudin, Fadi Ghneimat, Khaled al-Fasfous, Tawfik Abdel Fattah al-Huroub, and Imsail al-Nattah.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Ultimately, each nation (their citizenry) has to decide to whom they will donate fund.
> 
> But International law says:
> 
> *18. 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> ◈  Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ◈  Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
> 
> ◈  Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another meeting at the UN and another opportunity for the Arabs-Moslems to demonstrate why various nations are withholding their welfare payments.
> 
> The PA spends six percent of its annual budget to pay $4.5 million a month to jailed terroristsand another $6.5 million to their families, yet continues to ask for foreign donations.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The International Community should give no consideration whatsoever, in attempts at using political, economic, military or liberation as a justification for Criminal Acts directed against Israel (or any other State) with the intention to compel the Israeli Government to adopt some course of action, or some act that furthers the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) criminal objective.
> 
> The HoAP may not use the excuse of "Resistance Fighter" to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel) or seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by the State of Israel.  This includes any activity by the HoAP in the form of espionage or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons.  These offenses are prohibited under International Humanitarian Law (IHL); specifical Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> ..........View attachment 281665
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Agree completely, Rocco. The above begs the question: “why have we in the West continued to shower the PA and UNRWA with billions of dollars in welfare aid money when we knew with certainty that both of those entities were corrupt to the core.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas promises to continue paying families of martyrs, receives applause at U.N. General Assembly


----------



## Hollie

I suspect that much of the Arab world is convinced a greater Israeli presence is preferred to that of Iranian backed occupation forces such as those in Gaza and Lebanon. 


Little Outrage in Arab World Over Netanyahu’s Vow to Annex West Bank


----------



## Hollie

No gee-had for these wannabes. 



*In Gaza, 86 Palestinians injured, one slain, in 76th Friday protest*

In Gaza, 86 Palestinians injured, one slain, in 76th Friday protest


----------



## member

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas promises to continue paying families of martyrs, receives applause at U.N. General Assembly







_*"Even if I had only one penny. . .*_ *[*we know that _ain’t_ true 

 *]* _*. . .I would've given it to the families of the martyrs, prisoners and heroes," 

*_
_*. . .said Abbas and received a round of applause*_ *from the crowd.* 







 *"Abbas also attacked Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu following Netanyahu's statement earlier this month to annex the Jordan Valley*. "





*"We completely reject this plan…”*






SURPRISE


----------



## Hollie

Just more peaceful protests by the angry Arab-Moslem psychopaths.



*7,000 Arabs riot along Gaza border, one killed*
Palestinian Arab killed as rioters throw firebombs and explosives at IDF soldiers along Gaza border. Two military vehicles damaged.

7,000 Arabs riot along Gaza border, one killed





Protesters clash with Israeli forces on Gaza-Israel border
Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash 90


----------



## Hollie

I suspect the KSA is sending a message to Iran. 




*Saudi Arabia arresting Hamas terrorists*
Saudi authorities arrest dozens of Hamas terrorists, confiscate computers and documents.

Saudi Arabia arresting Hamas terrorists






Lebanon's _Al Mayadeen_ reoprted that Saudi Arabia's internal security forces have arrested over 60 people identified as members of the Hamas terror group.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Hollie, et al,

I expected the Egyptian National Security Agency (ENSA), with responsibilities for counterintelligence, border security, and counter-terrorism, would be the first to drag the country and suppress HAMAS; given their association with the attacks on Egyptian military base in the Sinai Peninsula were they killed over 50 Border Police; and then a month later, what the Egyptians say was DAESH militants, ambushed a police convoy in  the Sinai Peninsula again, 18 police KIA and 7 WIA.



Hollie said:


> I suspect the KSA is sending a message to Iran.
> *Saudi Arabia arresting Hamas terrorists*
> Saudi authorities arrest dozens of Hamas terrorists, confiscate computers and documents.
> 
> Saudi Arabia arresting Hamas terrorists
> Lebanon's _Al Mayadeen_ reoprted that Saudi Arabia's internal security forces have arrested over 60 people identified as members of the Hamas terror group.


*(COMMENT)*

I think it is damned interesting that Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia _(on a larger scale)_ have initiated similar counter-terrorism operations _(directed against HAMAS and other support elements)_ to that of Egypt.

I wonder if they see a connection to the terrorist attacks on the recent gas and oil refinery facilities? 

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The end result for ethnic and religious minorities in fascist, Islamist majorities. 




Christians Flee Gaza Due to Hamas — and No One Cares

Since Hamas’ rise to power in the Gaza Strip, Christians living in the sector have become the scapegoats and a target for harm from both Hamas and extremist Salafis. Due to their predicament, most of them fled; out of a community of 4,200 people twelve years ago, there are now several hundred left.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Has anything changed? ]

Palestinian in 1970s: "We don't mind being ruled by others, as long as they aren't Jews" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The knifer was apprehended after being wrestled to the ground (_not _shot, _not_ beaten to a pulp) and taken into custody by other officers at the scene. Israel's *Channel 13 News* shows a video clip [*here*] and says the attacker is a Palestinian Arab boy of thirteen.

Thirteen. Yet another weaponized child. A life incomrehnsibly cheapened, and in danger of being wasted before it gets underway.

Referring to this child assailant, *Times of Israel* says he approached a cluster of officers at the Temple Mount’s Chain Gate (in Hebrew: Sha'ar Hashalshelet), above the Western Wall area, around 4:00 pm. He pulled out a knife and in the customary way attempted to stab anyone he could, indiscriminately. Any Jew would do.

We expect he will now become another poster child for the irresponsible human rights industry's pleas for Israel to stop arresting children. Listening, Amnesty?

A day earlier, Wednesday, an Israeli woman of about twenty was stabbed in another act of Arab-on-Israel terrorism near the busy Maccabim/Shilat Junction on Route 443. That's the major highway that runs between Jerusalem and the airport.

The website of *i24News *reports that the woman was standing at a bus stop which is adjacent to the main entrance to the city of Modi’in. For what it's worth, the bus stop is _inside_ the Green Line which is frequently - and totally misleadingly - called the 1967 border. (It's simply the 1949 armistice line, nothing more.) The Arabb news reports we have seen tell their readers that this was an attack on settlers in some occupied place. It's a powerful form of incitement, too good to skip by troubling themselves with checking the actual facts.

The Israeli victim received emergency medical treatment at the scene and was brought to Tel Hashomer Medical Center in Tel Aviv. Her condition was described as light to moderate in a Magen David Adom bulletin.

We found this security camera footage on an Arab news site (the contents almost certainly originated with an Israeli source):

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Art__Allm, et al,



			
				Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas • UN Floor • September 2019 said:
			
		

> "Even if I had only one penny, I would've given it to the families of the martyrs, prisoners and heroes," said Abbas and received a round of applause from the crowd.


*Article 1 COUNCIL DECISION (CFSP) 2019/25*
The list of persons, groups and entities to which applies shall be that set out in the Annex to this 
Common  Position: on the application of specific measures to combat terrorism
Done at Brussels, 8 January 2019​
1.‘Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’ (a.k.a. ‘Fatah Revolutionary Council’, a.k.a. ‘Arab Revolutionary Brigades’, a.k.a. ‘Black September’, a.k.a. ‘Revolutionary Organisation of Socialist Muslims’).
2.‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.

3.‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.

9.‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’.

10.‘Hizballah Military Wing’ (a.k.a. ‘Hezbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbullah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hezballah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hisbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbu'llah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizb Allah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Jihad Council’ (and all units reporting to it, including the External Security Organisation)). ‘Hizbul Mujahideen’ — ‘HM’

16.‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ — ‘PIJ’.

17.‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ — ‘PFLP’.

18.‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP — General Command’).​
Whatever the assembly applauses, the fact remains that Abbas has been, and continues to be, in violation of
*18. 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
It is not necessary to use the American Terrorist List.  Virtually every nation in the European Union has multiple Arab Palestinian Groups on their terrorist List.


Art__Allm said:


> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?


*(COMMENT)*

I find this odd.  If there was a greater example of hyenas, jackals, and rabid wolves, it is the aforementioned Arab Palestinians.  You can see how they exhibit their actions like that of a pack of hyenas along the borders and roam to attack, without provocation, in the West Bank.  To call the Arab Palestinians "mad dogs" is simply an insult to the dogs.

The State of Israel has not threatened to destroy the planet.  This is simply an over-exaggeration of a stage of Arab Palestinian Drama Queens.

........  
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Art__Allm, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas • UN Floor • September 2019 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Even if I had only one penny, I would've given it to the families of the martyrs, prisoners and heroes," said Abbas and received a round of applause from the crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 1 COUNCIL DECISION (CFSP) 2019/25*
> The list of persons, groups and entities to which applies shall be that set out in the Annex to this
> Common  Position: on the application of specific measures to combat terrorism
> Done at Brussels, 8 January 2019​
> 1.‘Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’ (a.k.a. ‘Fatah Revolutionary Council’, a.k.a. ‘Arab Revolutionary Brigades’, a.k.a. ‘Black September’, a.k.a. ‘Revolutionary Organisation of Socialist Muslims’).
> 2.‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.
> 
> 3.‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.
> 
> 9.‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’.
> 
> 10.‘Hizballah Military Wing’ (a.k.a. ‘Hezbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbullah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hezballah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hisbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbu'llah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizb Allah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Jihad Council’ (and all units reporting to it, including the External Security Organisation)). ‘Hizbul Mujahideen’ — ‘HM’
> 
> 16.‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ — ‘PIJ’.
> 
> 17.‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ — ‘PFLP’.
> 
> 18.‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP — General Command’).​
> Whatever the assembly applauses, the fact remains that Abbas has been, and continues to be, in violation of
> *18. 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> It is not necessary to use the American Terrorist List.  Virtually every nation in the European Union has multiple Arab Palestinian Groups on their terrorist List.
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I find this odd.  If there was a greater example of hyenas, jackals, and rabid wolves, it is the aforementioned Arab Palestinians.  You can see how they exhibit their actions like that of a pack of hyenas along the borders and roam to attack, without provocation, in the West Bank.  To call the Arab Palestinians "mad dogs" is simply an insult to the dogs.
> 
> The State of Israel has not threatened to destroy the planet.  This is simply an over-exaggeration of a stage of Arab Palestinian Drama Queens.
> 
> ........  View attachment 282069
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...





1.‘Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’ (a.k.a. ‘Fatah Revolutionary Council’, a.k.a. ‘Arab Revolutionary Brigades’, a.k.a. ‘Black September’, a.k.a. ‘Revolutionary Organisation of Socialist Muslims’).
2.‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.
3.‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.
9.‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’.
10.‘Hizballah Military Wing’ (a.k.a. ‘Hezbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbullah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hezballah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hisbollah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizbu'llah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Hizb Allah Military Wing’, a.k.a. ‘Jihad Council’ (and all units reporting to it, including the External Security Organisation)). ‘Hizbul Mujahideen’ — ‘HM’
16.‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ — ‘PIJ’.
17.‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ — ‘PFLP’.
18.‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP — General Command’).


_*"Whatever the assembly applauses, the fact remains that Abbas has been, and continues to be, in violation of: *__*1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*__*"*_

*+*





Pretending to be a positive leader of a group of people --  *he's one of THEM*, #'s: 1,2,3,9,10,16,17 & 18 - only, he wears fancier suits, flies around shaking hands with terrorist leaders and world leader despots ... photo ops, the yummy luncheon meetings.......etc. *please*...




right - the applause............

 
what does that say about 

 _*the crowd*_?  anti israel & "terrorist supporters."​


----------



## Hollie

The religion of peaceful riots.


----------



## Hollie

These uppity women have some nerve. Don't they understand that the Religion of Peace guarantees women's rights?


*
Palestinian women demand legal protection after suspected 'honor killing'

*
RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Hundreds of Palestinians demonstrated in the West Bank on Wednesday to demand legal protection for women after a 21-year-old woman died last month in what rights groups say was a so-called honor killing.


At least 18 Palestinian women have been killed this year by family members angered at perceived damage to their honor, which may involve fraternizing with men or any infringement of conservative values regarding women, according to the General Union of Palestinian Women and Feminist Institutions.


----------



## Hollie

The competing mini-caliphates are no less antagonistic and the competition for dwindling welfare dollars is no less intense.

Especially now, with Iran having a presence in Gaza, Fatah is facing a much larger threat to its viability and existence.







FATAH REBUFFS INITIATIVE TO END RIFT WITH HAMAS
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_




_


_The Palestinian ruling Fatah faction has dismissed as “futile” a new initiative aimed at resolving its dispute with Hamas.

Fatah’s rejection of the initiative, announced by eight Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip last week, is seen by Palestinian political analysts as a setback to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s plan to hold general elections.


_
The stakes are being set for a return to those happy-fun days of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war.  Now, however, there are both Iran and ISIS as players.

_
_


----------



## Hollie

Between UNRWA school indoctrination into the islamic Death Cult and Hamas summer camp, it's a full time job creating the next generation of Cultists.


----------



## Hollie

Doesn't everyone bring weapons to their holy sites?

Israeli police arrest 15-year-old Palestinian concealing knife at West Bank holy site

Hebron arrest comes less than a week after Palestinians minors, 12 and 14, arrested in connection with stabbing police in two separate incidents


----------



## Sixties Fan

World Bank distorts report to absolve PA of fiscal responsibility |PMW Analysis


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→  Sixties Fan, _et al,_

Normally, in political environments, debt becomes important in terms of interest payments and the potential for a default.  And while that is part of the case, it is not the only aspect relevant to the situation.



Sixties Fan said:


> World Bank distorts report to absolve PA of fiscal responsibility |PMW Analysis


*(COMMENT)*

Part of the Arab Palestinian complaint about Israeli effective control → the Israeli actions in the disputed territories → and the civil 'n' security controls over the Areas of Responsibility → were to substantiate the unrelenting demands for the immediate withdrawal of Israeli law enforcement and security forces.  The Arab Palestinians needed to attempt at lessening the blame attaching liability to the Israelis.  This was necessary to establish a scapegoat and stem the gradual decline in the number of participating donor nations.

◈  Arab Palestinian reliance on United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) welfare leads to more welfare use by the next generation.  This generational reliance is a principle cause of perpetual welfare depency that has now become a cultural mainstay of the Arab Palestinians.  

◈  Additionally, there is a secondary indication that if current generation of Arab Palestinians become dependent on the Palestinian Authority (PA) program of monthly cash stipends _(over a billion dollar in the last four years to the family of terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison)_, the greater the likelihood of their children will eventually become terrorists themselves → sentenced to prison → who's family will be dependent on the Palestinian Authority (PA) program of monthly cash stipends to their families.​
It is interesting that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has acccepted from the_ (evil empire of the alleged ethnic cleansing)_ State of Israel a payment of more than half a billion dollars from the Israeli government.  The Israelis see the Palestinian economy on the verge of collapse and the Israelis infusion of funds would, in the short run, stave off the financial crisis.  Currently, Israel is instrumental _(for the time being)_ in keeping the Arab Palestinian economy from collapse.

It is true, that Israel said the amount was withheld an amount equal to approximately what the Ramallah Government (PA) gives in stipend to prisoners/families. 

And then there is:

"As many as 81% of the Palestinians living in the occupied Palestinian territory believe there is corruption in Palestinian Authority institutions according to a recent survey, perceptions reinforced by the recently launched annual report of the Palestinian Coalition for Accountability and Integrity (AMAN), the Transparency International chapter in Palestine." [al-Shabaka (the Palestinian Policy Network) by Tariq Dana on August 18, 2015]​
"Corruption in Palestinian Authority (PA) institutions should not be perceived as merely a matter of administrative and financial wrongdoing committed by irresponsible individuals whose behavior is driven by greed and personal interests.   The scandals that Palestinians hotly debate from time to time – such as embezzlement of public funds, misappropriation of resources, and nepotism – are an outcome of longstanding corruption embedded in the underlying power structure that governs the Palestinian political system and that were rooted in the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) prior to the Oslo process."​
........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian women's rights groups and others have repeatedly complained about violence against women in Palestinian society and have demanded that the PA enact laws to protect the women from domestic violence.

This ruling by two top Palestinian religious figures prohibiting Palestinian women from approaching Israeli police is indeed life endangering for some Palestinian women as it may remove a major deterrent against violence that women need for protection.

The serious problem of domestic violence against Palestinian women has been a major concern of women's rights groups, for years:

"According to statistics recorded by the Center of Women's Affairs in Gaza about the cases of violence reaching the center, 63% of women suffer from marital violence... 73 % suffer from verbal abuse, 24 % from physical abuse, 29.5 % from mental abuse... Zainab Al-Ghneimi, head of the Women's Legal Counseling Center, said: 'Married women are not forthcoming with these details about violence at the beginning, probably out of shame, and because the prevailing culture forbids discussing such secrets...' Al-Ghneimi explained: "the main reason is probably that the man believes he has bought the woman and paid for her, and therefore she has become his property and must obey his orders. She clarified that unfortunately, this is the culture of the entire society, and that [Palestinian] laws give him the right of ownership, based on the man being the guardian, and he is the one who commands and prohibits."

[Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 29, 2015]

(full article online)

Palestinian women's lives endangered by PA religious leaders' ruling |PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Love of the Land: Surprise? Palestinians Steal Electricity, Then Blame Israel - by Bassam Tawil


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Quds News Network warns its Facebook readers (and this is on Twitter as well.)

" ATTENTION! If you want to keep your #Facebook account/page safe and secure, don't publish posts with Palestine-related words, such as "martyr, Hamas, Jihad..." Your account may be blocked according to FB's new anti-Palestine algorithms.
#FBblocksPalestine"


It is nice for them to admit that "Palestine-related words" include calls for violence against Jews and cheering for those who succeed.

Al-Araby has its own list of "Palestinian resistance" words that they claim Facebook is censoring with its new algorithm: "Hamas", "Islamic Jihad", "Al-Qassam Brigades", "Al-Quds Brigades", "Popular Front", "Palestinian resistance" and "Shahid."

(full article online)

"Palestine-related words such as 'martyr, Hamas, Jihad...'" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The heroes of Islam against to evil, evil Jews ]


The International Committee of the Red Cross issued a statement today:

 The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) laments the misplaced public pressure directed towards its offices and staff over the past days which has led to the cancellation of a number of activities including family visits to the larger detainee population.   

"In recent days, we have seen sit-ins spiral out of control outside some of our offices in the occupied Palestinian territory. Staff were insulted and accused of not doing enough to follow up on their commitment towards Palestinian detainees in Israeli detention," said David Quesne, the head of the ICRC’s mission in Jerusalem. 



Quesne is understating what happened. The ICRC offices in Ramallah were shut down completely by protesters. When Quesne says "staff were insulted" he means they were threatened.

Who is the person they are showing in their placards?

Samer Arbid of the PFLP, who was arrested for leading a cell that murdered Rina Shnerb, 17, with an explosive device. The Shin Bet considers him a "ticking time bomb" and has employed measures, approved by Israel's  Supreme Court in such cases, including forcing prisoners into uncomfortable positions, depriving them of sleep, shackling them and subjecting them to extreme temperatures. Arbid suffered a heart-related problem during interrogation and was sent to Hadassah Hospital.

The Palestinians are defending this monster.

(full article online)

Palestinians threaten ICRC employees in protest in support of murderer of 17 year old girl ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

PA claims 24 'incursions' on Temple Mount


----------



## Hollie

If you have to ask,
The Richest Terror Organizations in the World

'Where's the Qatari Money?


'Where's the Qatari money?' Hamas facing growing criticism in Gaza


Recent spike in injuries among Palestinian youths dispatched by terror group to protest at Israeli border fence has led to a rise in complaints about the Strip's rulers, as Gazans see double standard in opportunities and funding


According to the statistics, of thousands of Palestinians injured during the weekly protests at the border, the casualties are mainly youths who will, in the best-case scenario, limp for the rest of their lives, or worse, lose one of their feet.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Palestinian karate championship for young women named after murderer of 37 Israeli civilians*

*"Sisters of Dalal Mughrabi Championship for Young Women" was held by the Palestinian Karate Federation, which is a member of the Asian Karate Federation, a member of the World Karate Federation*
*The logo of the World Karate Federation was featured at the tournament *
*PMW has written to the World Karate Federation and the Asian Karate Federation asking that they condemn the Palestinian Karate Federation for naming an event after a terrorist mass murderer and prohibit the recurrence of terror glorification by the Palestinian Karate Federation and all other member federations in the future, but the federations have not responded *

(full article online)

Does The World Karate Federation authorize tournaments named after Palestinian terrorists? |PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

You learn such interesting things from Hamas:

 The Zionist movement in its project to establish a state for Jews in #Palestine, brought  diverse  groups of world Jews who were different in race, language , color and culture and resided them in it.
They are strangers to the land, it does not know them and they don’t know it.  but in the hope of making homogeneity  between all of these groups, it created a story that did not succeed. Is there a future for this project?"


For over seventy years, haters of Israel have predicted its demise.

And they'll keep confidently doing it. Because the reality that Israel is a vibrant, dynamic, Jewish state is too shameful for them to consider.

(full article online)

Hamas says Zionist project is a failure ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The islamic gee-had carries consequences.


Israel reportedly arrests another Palestinian behind Dolev Spring attack

Several Palestinians have been arrested in connection with the August attack that killed Rina Shnerb.

An alleged senior member of the terror cell suspected of perpetrating the West Bank bombing that killed teenager Rina Shnerb in August was arrested by Israeli security forces early on Thursday, Palestinian media reported.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is disturbing. Holocaust denial is a horrific thing. But it is even more horrific when it is coming from a potential “peace partner.” But that’s the thing – the Palestinian Authority is by no means a peace partner. They have made it clear that they want to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. They welcome spilled Jewish blood. 

So when they make a Holocaust denial video like this, it only proves more to the world what they really want. They spread lie after lie about the Jewish people. They fabricated an entire video. The Palestinian Authority mocked the Holocaust. They mocked the 6 million Jews that were slaughtered by the Nazis.

(Full article and video online)

Israel's "peace partner" creates disturbing Holocaust denial video


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> This is disturbing. Holocaust denial is a horrific thing. But it is even more horrific when it is coming from a potential “peace partner.” But that’s the thing – the Palestinian Authority is by no means a peace partner. They have made it clear that they want to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. They welcome spilled Jewish blood.
> 
> So when they make a Holocaust denial video like this, it only proves more to the world what they really want. They spread lie after lie about the Jewish people. They fabricated an entire video. The Palestinian Authority mocked the Holocaust. They mocked the 6 million Jews that were slaughtered by the Nazis.
> 
> (Full article and video online)
> 
> Israel's "peace partner" creates disturbing Holocaust denial video



Just one more Reason why the “ Two State Solution “ / “ Right of Return “ is DOA


----------



## Sixties Fan

The "three monotheistic religions" of the Vatican message has been reduced by one by the Muslim representative. He is saying that the Jews have been attacking the holy sites of Jerusalem - and have no right to be there.

He then makes it worse:

"We take the occasion of this meeting to emphasize our adherence to the principles of the Omar pact, which established the form of the Christian-Muslim relationship on the basis that the Al-Aqsa mosque is exclusively a place of prayer for Muslims, just like the Church of the Holy Sepulcher is of the Christians."


This pact, which is known in Arabic as the al-ʿUhda al-ʿUmariyya, has been questioned as to its authenticity, and many versions exist. The seemingly most authoritative version, recorded by al-Tabari, includes:

(full article online)

Muslim leader denies Jewish rights in Jerusalem to Vatican representatives ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Mo' money for Mahoud. Maybe his presidential jet needs a costly tune-up.




Palestinians to resume taking tax money collected by Israel

The cash-strapped Palestinian Authority (PA) will once again accept tax revenues collected on its behalf by Israel, after rejecting the money for months, Israeli and Palestinian officials said on Friday.

The PA had stopped taking the money because of a dispute with Israel over stipends paid to the families of Palestinians killed or jailed by Israel


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Hollie, et al,

Frankly, → I was amused that they even considered rejecting the revenue funds.



Hollie said:


> Mo' money for Mahoud. Maybe his presidential jet needs a costly tune-up.
> 
> Palestinians to resume taking tax money collected by Israel
> 
> The cash-strapped Palestinian Authority (PA) will once again accept tax revenues collected on its behalf by Israel, after rejecting the money for months, Israeli and Palestinian officials said on Friday.
> 
> The PA had stopped taking the money because of a dispute with Israel over stipends paid to the families of Palestinians killed or jailed by Israel


*(COMMENT)*

I wonder if the Jerusalem Government is still withholding those funds.  It is legal under international law. In fact, one could make a case that it is illegal for Israel not to take some action that would be would be a punitive measure against the Ramallah Government for violating the International Convention.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ※→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> Frankly, → I was amused that they even considered rejecting the revenue funds.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mo' money for Mahoud. Maybe his presidential jet needs a costly tune-up.
> 
> Palestinians to resume taking tax money collected by Israel
> 
> The cash-strapped Palestinian Authority (PA) will once again accept tax revenues collected on its behalf by Israel, after rejecting the money for months, Israeli and Palestinian officials said on Friday.
> 
> The PA had stopped taking the money because of a dispute with Israel over stipends paid to the families of Palestinians killed or jailed by Israel
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder if the Jerusalem Government is still withholding those funds.  It is legal under international law. In fact, one could make a case that it is illegal for Israel not to take some action that would be would be a punitive measure against the Ramallah Government for violating the International Convention.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I suppose I can see why Abbas would refuse the tax fund revenue; it was a stunt intended to gain some street-cred with Arab neighbors. It was a way for Abbas to perform some chest-heaving, self aggrandizement. 

I do think the international community is a long way past expecting any compliance with international law or customs from the PA of Hamas. Collectively, the international community is responsible for aiding and abetting the actions of largely lawless territories and Islamic terrorist enclaves. It is the international community that literally funds lawless actions that would not be tolerated elsewhere. 

I have thought often that the two Islamic terrorist enclaves have made a considered choice to maintain the status quo as welfare recipients vs. making an attempt at statehood. That would be a financial, social and ethical burden that the enclaves simply can’t accept. A “Country of Pal’istan” would be in quite a predicament when the first rocket sailed out of Gaza or when the border riots managed to penetrate the Israeli border fence. Those would be acts of war and the “Country of Pal’istan” would be  accountable for prompting such acts. The “Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians” would find far less recourse in playing the eternally aggrieved victim as they do now.


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian Mullocrats are letting it be known that their occupation forces in Gaza’istan are going to sacrifice as many Sunni Arab-Moslems as it takes to fight the gee-had against Israel. 
*



Islamic Jihad Leader in Gaza Vows to Oppose Trump's Peace Plan *
Islamic Jihad leader in Gaza vows to oppose Trump's peace plan


As the organization celebrates 32 years since its founding, Ziad al-Nakhalah says that Islamic Jihad has imposed new rules of the game in the struggle against Israel

Oct 05, 2019 9:15 PM
 





Islamic jihad militants take part in a military show marking the 32nd anniversary of the organisation's founding, October 3, 2019.\ IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/ REUTERS
The leader of Islamic Jihad vowed Saturday to fight any Israeli-Palestinian peace plan proposed by U.S. President Donald Trump's administration "with all the power at our disposal."

What Islamic gee-had meant to say was:

“_with all the Sunni Arabs we can dispose of"_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Love of the Land: BTW, whatever happened to the Palestinian ‘diplomatic tsunami’? - by Jonathan S. Tobin


----------



## Hollie

I just really can’t imagine the fear and degradation imposed on women by such a societal illness. 


*Palestinian women's lives endangered by PA religious leaders' ruling*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 3, 2019

Palestinian women's lives endangered by PA religious leaders' ruling |PMW Analysis


*Top PA religious figures prohibit Palestinian women from submitting complaints over spouses to Israeli police*

*PA Ministry of Justice is working on improving legislation on family matters, including "ensuring punishment of those who commit crimes from a motive of honor"*

*The Israeli Arab party The Joint List has announced that it will boycott today's swearing-in ceremony of the Israeli Parliament in protest of what it calls the government's failure to address the rising levels of violence in Arab towns. Yet while Israeli Arab politicians are complaining that not enough is being done to tackle the growing problem of violence in Israeli Arab communities, the PA is telling Palestinian women not to go to the Israeli police with complaints over their husbands*


----------



## Hollie

Call ‘em crazy or just call ‘em a pious Moslem following in the way of the 7th century Arab warlord who invented Islamism.




Palestinian cleric Nidhal "Abu Ibrahim" Siam said in an address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that was uploaded to the Internet on September 19, 2019 that democracy, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, property rights, and personal freedom contradict Islam, and he said that anybody who leaves Islam must be killed for apostasy.


Video:
"Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Palestinian Cleric Nidhal  Siam: Women's Rights Slogan "My Body Is My Property" Is an Evil Attempt to Destroy the Islamic Nation; Islamic State Would Use Jihad to Safeguard Women's Chastity"


----------



## Hollie

In case you weren't invited to the graduation ceremony, leftover falafel and explosive vests are in the fridge. Help yourself.
_



On October 5, 2019, Alkofiya TV (Gaza) aired a report about an October 3 graduation ceremony that was held at the Nidal Military Academy in the south of the Gaza Strip for the seventh graduating class of the Nidal Al-Amoudi Battalion of the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigades. Abu Ahmad, the Commander of the Nidal Al-Amoudi Battalion, delivered a speech, saying that Fatah is the leader of the Palestinians' armed struggle, that it is the leader of martyrdom-seekers, and that it fired the first bullet and threw the first stone against Israel._


Video:
"Commander of Gaza-Based Fatah Splinter Group: Fatah Is the Leader of the Armed Struggle"


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA capitulates to Israel's anti-"Pay-for-Slay" law |PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why ??   Because is all about respect of other religions ]

“This morning, Jews filmed an incident which occurred on the Temple Mount during a routine visit: a garbage truck operated by the Waqf dumped its contents intentionally on the place where the Temple stood,” said Arnon Segal, a member of the Temple Heritage Foundation.

Watch: Arabs dump waste on Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah attempts to hide its terror promotion from Facebook |PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority officially embraces BDS - slowly ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The schlubs in the Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., are finding themselves on the business end of the gee-had and that’s not a place they can afford to be.




*Hamas quietly purging jihadist groups, ISIS followers from Gaza: report*

*i24NEWS
*
*The crackdown comes in the wake of a deadly coordinated attack this summer*


The Islamist terror organization Hamas is waging a "secret war" against jihadist groups in an effort to purge them from the Gaza Strip. 

According to Lebanese daily Al Akhbar, Hamas is specifically targeting followers of the Islamic State and other Salafist groups, having busted numerous jihadist cells said to be planning attacks against security forces and top officials. 

Hamas officials also told the pro-Hezbollah daily that weapons, including long-range rockets capable of hitting major cities in Israel, have been confiscated. 

The crackdown comes in the wake of a deadly coordinated attack this summer that left three Hamas policemen dead.


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## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, _et al,_

*QUESTION:*  Do the first two items here, draw a "terrorist" connection to the third item?



Sixties Fan said:


> PA capitulates to Israel's anti-"Pay-for-Slay" law |PMW Analysis





Sixties Fan said:


> Fatah attempts to hide its terror promotion from Facebook |PMW Analysis





Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian Authority officially embraces BDS - slowly ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


*(COMMENT)*

Anyway, I just wanted to say how much I appreciated these articles and the others from the past.  Outstanding Contributions.


........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

As always, you've have consistently brought us insightful explanations about Arab Palestinian events and developing situations. 



Hollie said:


> The schlubs in the Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., are finding themselves on the business end of the gee-had and that’s not a place they can afford to be.



........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> As always, you've have consistently brought us insightful explanations about Arab Palestinian events and developing situations.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The schlubs in the Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., are finding themselves on the business end of the gee-had and that’s not a place they can afford to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 283478
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Aww, you’re too kind.


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## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Oslo is dead, expired, stillborn, whatever.
> 
> Oslo was just an excuse for Israel to steal stuff while pretending to be making peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was stolen?
> 
> This is another unsupported claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic trolling with no substance or intelligent response is all You've got?
> Go troll some place other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Appropriate response to a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep pathetically repeating,
> while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
> Do You actually have a point?
Click to expand...

The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.

How can that be done?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> What was stolen?
> 
> This is another unsupported claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pathetic trolling with no substance or intelligent response is all You've got?
> Go troll some place other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Appropriate response to a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep pathetically repeating,
> while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
> Do You actually have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
> 
> How can that be done?
Click to expand...


You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy. 

And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_

Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Stupid post of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic trolling with no substance or intelligent response is all You've got?
> Go troll some place other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Appropriate response to a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep pathetically repeating,
> while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
> Do You actually have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
> 
> How can that be done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy.
> 
> And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_
> 
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
Click to expand...

Deflection.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> 
> 
> Pathetic trolling with no substance or intelligent response is all You've got?
> Go troll some place other.
> 
> 
> 
> Appropriate response to a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep pathetically repeating,
> while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
> Do You actually have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
> 
> How can that be done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy.
> 
> And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_
> 
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

Iink?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Appropriate response to a stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pathetically repeating,
> while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
> Do You actually have a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
> 
> How can that be done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy.
> 
> And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_
> 
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iink?
Click to expand...

Don't quote my post if you are not going to relate to it.


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## Hollie

A bit of a kerfuffle separating the angry tribes. It has something to do with various ministers of various ministries assigned by the PA to update employee data in Gaza. There was some mention of "public servant's issues".

Could it be paychecks to pubic servants who don't exist? Who knows. Who cares. Those UNRWA welfare checks keep coming.

Time for the angry tribes to resolve their issues with some large caliber "issue resolution". 


Palestinian Authority Accuses Hamas of Detaining Public Committee Members

The Palestinian Authority (PA) accused Hamas of arresting members of a government committee in Gaza that was working to update employees' data.

Government spokesman Ibrahim Melhem said Hamas arrested members of the committee, which consists of the Personnel Bureau, Ministry of Finance, and Ministry of Interior.

Melhem condemned the measure saying it was a disruption of the committee’s work aiming to resolve public servants’ issues, noting that four members of the Ministry of Finance's committee were detained.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pathetically repeating,
> while offering no substance or counter argumentation to Hollie's post
> Do You actually have a point?
> 
> 
> 
> The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
> 
> How can that be done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy.
> 
> And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_
> 
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iink?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't quote my post if you are not going to relate to it.
Click to expand...


The response to your post was upsetting, righf?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The core of Israel's existence has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
> 
> How can that be done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy.
> 
> And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_
> 
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iink?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't quote my post if you are not going to relate to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The response to your post was upsetting, righf?
Click to expand...

Not really. Just no relevance.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean except for the Pals who are Israeli citizens. That would seem to debunk that conspiracy.
> 
> And then we have The Magical Kingdom of Pally’land (_Where Dreams Come True™️)_
> 
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iink?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't quote my post if you are not going to relate to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The response to your post was upsetting, righf?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. Just no relevance.
Click to expand...

Entirely relevant.

Would you have preferred a YouTube video?

I responded with factual data to your claim. Can you refute the facts?


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## Sixties Fan

In other words, Islamic Jihad's promise is one of unending toxicity: to go on poisoning the hearts and minds of generation after generation of Palestinians – as well as to continue investing millions of dollars in building tunnels and amassing weapons to ensure that the fight against Israel continues forever.


"The policy of resistance and jihad is the genuine policy to liberate all Palestine, and the Palestinian people will not abandon this path. We will not accept any agreement that contradicts the project of jihad and liberation. Under no circumstances will we give up one inch of the land of Palestine." -- Senior Hamas official Salah Bardaweel.


For [Hamas and Islamic Jihad] , a ceasefire means further amassing weapons and preparing their people for war without worrying about Israeli military action. When will the international community pull its head out of the sand in which it has so long been buried and understand that with organizations such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad running the show, the Gaza Strip will remain the humanitarian disaster that is so bitterly blamed on Israel?

(full article online)

What Iran's Friends Are Doing in Gaza


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## Sixties Fan

Some more on Palestinian identity ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Hollie

Who needs flush toilets when there’s a gee-had to be waged. 

These articles come around again and again. They speak to societal misfits who, despite billions of dollars in welfare payments over the course of decades, can’t manage to pull themselves out of a13th century existence with open trench sewers. 

It’s really shocking that they manage to destroy everything around them, even the ground they walk on. 





The conflict in Gaza is even affecting the beaches 

As a result of inadequate treatment, some studies have estimated that up to 108,000 cubic meters of untreated sewage is now discarded directly into the sea every day, and reserves of potable water have significantly diminished. A public health emergency now looms for the nearly 2 million Palestinians who live in the Strip, many of whom are refugees and the descendants of refugees from the 1948 war that established Israel’s independence.


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## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Who needs flush toilets when there’s a gee-had to be waged.
> 
> These articles come around again and again. They speak to societal misfits who, despite billions of dollars in welfare payments over the course of decades, can’t manage to pull themselves out of a13th century existence with open trench sewers.
> 
> It’s really shocking that they manage to destroy everything around them, even the ground they walk on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The conflict in Gaza is even affecting the beaches
> 
> As a result of inadequate treatment, some studies have estimated that up to 108,000 cubic meters of untreated sewage is now discarded directly into the sea every day, and reserves of potable water have significantly diminished. A public health emergency now looms for the nearly 2 million Palestinians who live in the Strip, many of whom are refugees and the descendants of refugees from the 1948 war that established Israel’s independence.



The responsibility for infrastructure and health issues in Gaze rests entirely on the government of Gaza. It does everyone a disservice to pretend otherwise.


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## Hollie

It really is horrible that the subjugation of women is still so widespread across islamic society. Great societal change is possible. We see examples of that here in the Great Satan with events beginning in the 1960's with women's rights and minority rights. 

A society that is unable to separate church (or mosque) and state and which has remained largely static since the 7th century will continue to treat half the population as mere property.  Equal treatment of women (and non-Moslems), is fundamentally antithetical to the precepts of Islam which recognizes as _Shirk_, any notion of a modern, democratic institution such as women's rights. Even if women in islamist nations can manage to effect some sort of referendum for reform by way of protesting the misogynistic tenets of the literally interpreted koran, until the totalitarian theocracy that Islam aspires to is abolished, they will inevitably run into the theocratic/patriarchal wall of orthodoxy.


Palestinian women's lives endangered by PA religious leaders' ruling |PMW Analysis

"According to statistics recorded by the Center of Women's Affairs in Gaza about the cases of violence reaching the center, 63% of women suffer from marital violence... 73 % suffer from verbal abuse, 24 % from physical abuse, 29.5 % from mental abuse... Zainab Al-Ghneimi, head of the Women's Legal Counseling Center, said: 'Married women are not forthcoming with these details about violence at the beginning, probably out of shame, and because the prevailing culture forbids discussing such secrets...' Al-Ghneimi explained: "the main reason is probably that the man believes he has bought the woman and paid for her, and therefore she has become his property and must obey his orders. She clarified that unfortunately, this is the culture of the entire society, and that [Palestinian] laws give him the right of ownership, based on the man being the guardian, and he is the one who commands and prohibits."

[Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 29, 2015]


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## Hollie

Because they're psychopaths.

I get a queasy stomach reading about this freakish Cult .




On September 22, 2019, Al-Quds Today TV (Palestine) aired an interview with the mother of two Gazan terrorists from the Al-Quds Brigades, the Islamic Jihad's military wing, the first of whom was Muhammad Yasser Arhim, who was killed in a clash with Israeli forces in April 2002. The second terrorist, Hazem Yasser Arhim, had been a prominent commander in the Al-Quds Brigades and was killed by an Israeli airstrike in July 2004. Earlier that year, Hazem had cut off and publicly displayed the head of an Israeli soldier who had been killed along with five other soldiers in a May 12, 2004 Islamic Jihad attack on an Israeli armored vehicle in the Zeitoun neighborhood in Gaza.

Video:
"Mother of Islamic Jihad Terrorist Who Decapitated Fallen Israeli Soldier in 2004: I Take Great Pride in My Son's Heroic Achievement"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even while the Palestinian Authority was facing a self-inflicted financial crisis, the PA coffers were still full enough to fund the reconstruction of the houses of terrorists demolished by Israel as a means of deterrent.

Making good on promises made by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the PA has financed the rebuilding of the home of a terrorist, who also has five other terrorist brothers - all of whom murdered Jews. Four of them are serving multiple life sentences and a fifth was killed when he resisted arrest after murdering a member of Israel’s Security Agency. The mother of the terrorists - Um Nasser Abu Hmeid - is the focus of constant PA attention and even led the PA’s bid for membership in the UN in 2011, simply because she is the mother of multiple murderers. Now the PA is rebuilding her and her sons’ house:

(full article online)

A new house and huge terror salaries - the PA’s rewards to a family of murderers |PMW Analysis


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## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs flush toilets when there’s a gee-had to be waged.
> 
> These articles come around again and again. They speak to societal misfits who, despite billions of dollars in welfare payments over the course of decades, can’t manage to pull themselves out of a13th century existence with open trench sewers.
> 
> It’s really shocking that they manage to destroy everything around them, even the ground they walk on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The conflict in Gaza is even affecting the beaches
> 
> As a result of inadequate treatment, some studies have estimated that up to 108,000 cubic meters of untreated sewage is now discarded directly into the sea every day, and reserves of potable water have significantly diminished. A public health emergency now looms for the nearly 2 million Palestinians who live in the Strip, many of whom are refugees and the descendants of refugees from the 1948 war that established Israel’s independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The responsibility for infrastructure and health issues in Gaze rests entirely on the government of Gaza. It does everyone a disservice to pretend otherwise.
Click to expand...


I agree. However,  Hamas has more than a decade long history of demonstrating that they have no interest in and are utterly incapable of  managing the normal affairs of government. I think it's a laughable joke that Gaza is little more than an armed islamc terrorist encampment. 

Heavily armed islamic terrorists roaming the streets, competing mini-caliphates which survive on a UN sponsored welfare entitlement and we see now that Hamas is engaged in trying to root out various versions of ISIS sympathizers and competing islamic terrorist franchises.

Maybe the UN should just give them more money. That will make everything OK.


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## Hollie

*Friday Fun-day *is approaching*.*

In the event you have any youngsters / family membere you don't need or want, please stop by at the islamic terrorist sponsored Friday border gee-had. You can throw the unwanted / unused on the islamic bonfire of hatred that has been burning since the 7th century. 

Your "martyrs" are appreciated.





UN REBUKES HAMAS FOR PLANNING TO RISK CHILDREN'S LIVES GAZA BORDER PROTEST
By TOVAH LAZAROFF

UN rebukes Hamas for planning to risk children's lives Gaza border protes
_





gaza protest. (photo credit:" MOHAMMED SALEM/REUTERS)
“I am concerned that the demonstrations’ organizers have branded tomorrow’s protests as 'Our Child Martyrs,'" UN humanitarian coordinator for the Palestinian territories Jamie McGoldrick said.
The United Nations issued a rare rebuke of Hamas for planning to risk Palestinian children’s lives at Friday’s weekly Gaza border protest.

_


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## Hollie

Rebuilding the Islamic terrorist infrastructure.

A new house and huge terror salaries - the PA’s rewards to a family of murderers |PMW Analysis

Making good on promises made by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the PA has financed the rebuilding of the home of a terrorist, who also has five other terrorist brothers - all of whom murdered Jews. Four of them are serving multiple life sentences and a fifth was killed when he resisted arrest after murdering a member of Israel’s Security Agency. The mother of the terrorists - Um Nasser Abu Hmeid - is the focus of constant PA attentionand even led the PA’s bid for membership in the UN in 2011, simply because she is the mother of multiple murderers. Now the PA is rebuilding her and her sons’ house:


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## Hollie

With the islamic terrorist border gee-had riots a total bust, maybe its time for another flotilla gee-had. 



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html?outputType=amp

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Ahmed Abu Artima was one of the founders of the “Great March of Return,” the weekly protests along Gaza’s frontier with Israel meant to draw attention to the plight of the territory’s 2 million people. But these days, he mostly avoids the demonstrations.

He is among a growing number of Gazans who believe the protests have lost their way. With little to show from 18 months of demonstrations beyond the hundreds of people killed or wounded by Israeli fire, many Gazans are beginning to question and even criticize the Hamas-led protests, a rarity in a territory where dissent is barely tolerated by the ruling Islamic militant group.


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## Sixties Fan

The weaponization of Palestinian Arab children by the kleptocratic/geriatric Mahmoud Abbas regime that rules them is the result of several concurrent strategies that have been implemented for years by now:

Large long-term monthly payments to prisoners and the families of dead terrorists by the Palestinian Authority, funded from a deficit budget that is replenished via foreign aid grants to the PA. These *Pay-to-Slay* payments as they are comminly termed grow with the seriousness of the terror offense. 
Overt, explicit incitement to more acts of terror by the Palestinian Authority and by terror groups
The recruiting and training of children to engage in conflict: Special mention to the United Nations *UNRWA* people responsible these past seven decades for nurturing, preserving, perpetuating and legitimizing the violent discontent of Palestinian Arab schookl children.
The systematic glorification of Arab-on-Israeli violence throughout Palestinian Arab society
The deliberate, ideology-driven abandonment of weaponized Palestinian Arab children by the numerous child-protection agencies that raise billions each year on the profoundly dishonest premise that, like DCI Palestine, they are "_committed to securing a just and viable future for Palestinian children in the Occupied Palestinian Territory_".
With all these in place, getting to the results they want are not that challenging.

Israel attracts serious criticism for its treatment of child offenders. In large measure, this is dishonest, politically-spun and based on poorly understood data. For instance, as a respected human rights organization based in Israel reported in February 2018 [*NGO Monitor*] in an essay that contradicts some of what "_everyone knows_" about Israel's "_failures_":

Some 90,000 children aged between 10 and 17 were arrested in England and Wales between April 2015 and March 2016, an average of about 7,500 per month. Adjust these numbers for population and you can make this highly relevant comparison - that minors are arrested in England and Wales (where armed conflict is not currently a major feature of life) 5.5 times more often than Palestinian Arab minors living in the so-called West Bank are.
In data covering the years since since 2013 (a period of considerable Arab-on-Israeli violence and the massive Arab promotion of terror), the number of Palestinian Arab minors arrested *annually *in areas under Israeli control was between 800 and 1,000. 
Of these arrested, how many were subjected to prosecution? About 450-505. Thus on average, in a population of roughly a million minors (quoting Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics data), fewer than 85 such minors are arrested each month and fewer than half of those are prosecuted.
And this: International law and Article 66 of the *Fourth Geneva Convention* mandates that Israel *must* establish military courts as part of its obligation to “_take all the measures in _[its] _power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety_.” Moreover, Israel's law and enforcement practices meet all the requirements of “due process,” the Convention on the Rights of the Child *and* Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The rules of evidence applied by the Military Courts are the same as the rules of evidence applied in the Israeli domestic criminal justice system.
These are not points that the chorus of child-weaponizers and their foreign-government-funders, backers and advocates want us to know.

Nor do they advertise the single most important take-away we can think of: that, given Pal Arab society's massive ongoing investment, it is dead easy to weaponize pre-teen Palestinian Arab boys and girls and turn them into killers.

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 07-Oct-19: How hard is it to produce 12 year old knife-attackers?


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## Sixties Fan

Al-Bazm advised Gazans not to deal with the pages Avichai Adraee, Ofir Gendelman, and others, and not to comment on them, and not to be provoked by sarcastic comments. He explained that these pages are run by intelligence officers who analyze all the interactions on these pages and analyze the data and might be a gateway to infiltrating Gaza.

He praised the Palestinian media for doing their part to let citizens know of the danger.

Hamas actually started a billboard campaign urging people not to respond to the Facebook page of COGAT Arabic.

(full article online)

Terror groups warn Gazans not to engage in social media with Israeli officials ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

Hamas, the internationally recognized terrorist group. issued a press release pretending to condemn the terror attack on a synagogue in Germany on Yom Kippur:

 We condemn the shameful attack on the synagogue in the German city Halle and the killing of two innocent people.

This attack proves that terrorism poses a danger for all people and that terrorism has no religion or is not restricted to a single nation.

We, in Palestine, are the most to endure the horrific outcome of terrorism.

Dr. Basem Naim
Member of Hamas International Relations Office"
-------------------------

See? Hamas is a victim of terror by Jews, so it knows how awful it is for innocents to be terrorized!

Twisting a terror attack on Jews into another attack on Jews is as loathsome as it gets.

How do we know that Hamas doesn't really condemn attacks on Jews in synagogue?

Because this "condemnation" does not appear anywhere on Hamas' Arabic language site. The very idea of condemning any attack on Jews in Arabic is unthinkable to Hamas.

(full article online)

Hamas "condemns" terror attack in Germany as an excuse to blame Jews for terrorism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


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## Sixties Fan

“When we got there, we saw there was a large blast of water and we started fixing it,” said Simon. “At some stage, while working, my brother Salim started to talk to Rosa about her life. She told us she’s 95, a Holocaust survivor, and that she has a daughter.

After the work was completed, he removed his notepad to bill her, and wrote: “Holocaust survivor, may you have health until 120 [years old], from Matari Simon and Matari Salim,” adding that the cost of the service was “0 shekels.”

(full article online)

Arab plumbers refuse to charge client after learning she’s a Holocaust survivor


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## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan,



Sixties Fan said:


> Arab plumbers refuse to charge client after learning she’s a Holocaust survivor


*(COMMENT)*

This is an amazing story...  But then Haifa is an Amazing City full of Amazing People.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Odd that the Allah god is made an accomplice to the most vile acts committed by Arabs-Moslems.





*"May Allah reward them" - Fatah official greets family of murderer of 2*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  |  Jul 16, 2019 

*"All forms of aid to the families of the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners" will be provided*

*Murderer's demolished house is being rebuilt*
"May Allah reward them," said Fatah official Abbas Zaki when he honored the family of Omar Abu Laila - murderer of 2 - with a visit last week.

In March this year, 19-year-old Omar Abu Laila stabbed and murdered Israeli soldier Gal Keidan and shot and murdered Rabbi Achiad Ettinger, a father of 12. Abu Laila was later killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers when they attempted to arrest him.


----------



## Hollie

Another glorious Gee-Had Friday Fun-Day.

The IDF once again put the _had_ in gee-had.





March of Return protest leaves 49 Palestinian wounded

The latest of the weekly ‘March of Return’ protests along the Gaza border left 49 Palestinians injured on Friday, 21 of them allegedly from IDF gunfire, the Gaza Ministry of Health reported. 


IDF forces, using tear gas and riot dispersal gear, contained the roughly 4,000 protesters, some of whom were spotted throwing IEDs toward the security fence. Several protesters were seen crossing the fence north of the Gaza Strip and running back to the Palestinian side, _Walla News_ reported.


----------



## Hollie

I'm afraid the Arabs-Moslems don't have an entitlement to promote acts of violence that glorify islamic terrorism.  



*Facebook takes down page of Palestine news site *

October 11, 2019 at 3:00 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine

Mark Zuckerberg Chief Executive Officer of Facebook on 23 July 2008 [Brian Solis/briansolis.com]

October 11, 2019 at 3:00 pm

Facebook takes down page of Palestine news site

Facebook on Wednesday deleted the page of _the Palestinian Information_ _Centre_ (PIC) in a move, the news site says, which is part of its war on Palestinian content on social media networks.

The site’s management said Facebook provided them with no prior warning before deleting the page, which had nearly five million followers, without any justification.


----------



## Hollie

I think this guy could use a good sharia lawyer.


Beirut, October 4, 2019 -- Hamas security forces should immediately release journalist Hani al-Agha and drop any charges against him, the Committee to Protect Journalists said today.

On September 25, al-Agha, a reporter for the pro-Fatah broadcaster Sawt al-Shabab Radio, responded to a summons by traveling to the headquarters of the Hamas-affiliated Internal Security Forces, west of Gaza City; once there, security forces arrested him, according to news reports and a report by the Skeyes Center for Media and Cultural Freedom, a regional press freedom group.

No charges have been announced against him, according to those reports. The Internal Security Forces have not allowed al-Agha’s family or a lawyer to visit him, according to Skeyes.


Palestinian journalist Hani al-Agha detained by Hamas forces in Gaza since September 25


----------



## Hollie

Some blustering melodrama from the Arab-Moslems.  
There's just no pleasin' islamic terrorists. Abu has repeatedly declared that Oslo is dead so why would he expect that others will abide by its terms?  





PA: We will prevent IDF from entering Area A

The Palestinians will prevent the IDF from entering Area A of the West Bank which, according to the Oslo Accords, is exclusively administered by the Palestinian Authority, PA Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh said on Saturday.

“We will prevent the Israeli occupation army from raiding Area A,” Shtayyeh said in an interview with the Palestinian daily Al-Quds. “We won’t do this through violence, but with our bodies. Israel invades the areas of the Palestinian Authority, and the signed agreements don’t allow these incursions. We will break this fait accompli.”


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Some blustering melodrama from the Arab-Moslems.
> There's just no pleasin' islamic terrorists. Abu has repeatedly declared that Oslo is dead so why would he expect that others will abide by its terms?”




*"There's just no pleasin' islamic terrorists. . ."*










 i don't like to judge by looks - but - you know......








....definitely -- a no-_pleasin'_ kinda crowd.....


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA Ministry of Health said that it considers it Israel's "deliberate step to finally and completely separate the Gaza Strip and the West Bank by preventing any connection on any level between our people in the two parts of the homeland." 

Palestinian Media Watch has exposed previous PA libels claiming Israel does medical experiments on prisoners and steals organs from dead terrorists, the so-called "Martyrs." Even the Arab League has repeated these PA lies. 

_*The following are longer excerpts of the reports quoted above:

(full article online)*_


PA libel: US hospital in Gaza is for “trafficking in organs” and medical "experiments" on Palestinians |PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

Fatah must be having a difficult time of it. For years they have had a free hand to use infidel technology as a vehicle for incitement and a means to glorify acts of Islamic terrorism. I never understood why Facebook allowed such blatant incitement to continue Fortunately, enough public condemnation and changing attitudes toward Fatah and their islamic terrorist campaign and promotion caused Facebook to act, 




*Fatah attempts to hide its terror promotion from Facebook*
Itamar Marcus  | Oct 7, 2019

Fatah attempts to hide its terror promotion from Facebook |PMW Analysis

*Last week Fatah closed its Facebook page and removed 17 of the terror promoting posts documented in PMW’s report on Fatah’s use of the page in first half of 2019*

*Nearly 100 terror promotion posts exposed by PMW reports still remain*

*PMW has supplied Facebook with links to the posts removed and those not removed to illustrate what Fatah decided to hide and what they left on the page*

*PMW Comment: Facebook removes terror promotion in “real time,” except when the murder of Israelis is being celebrated and promoted. While Facebook is bragging internationally about fighting terror, Palestinian terror is being embedded in the hearts and minds of the next generation of potential terrorists, thanks to Facebook*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

There is a number of older yet interesting article_s _on this subject during the period 2016 through 2017 one of which was_ (By __Aditya Tiwari -__ May 23, 2017)_ published through Fossbyte Titled: *• Facebook’s **Secret Policies On Sex, Terrorism, Hate, And Violence Leaked •* on this subject.  And as it has been since the development of, Social Media platforms, like Facebook, is often breaking new ground in terms of ethics, morality, and standards when it comes to Facebook Pages like the Fatah/PLO Page.

Facebook, as an organizational entity, has to cope with the age old question of How Much Freedom of Speech is too much Freeedom of Speech?  



			
				UN Security Council said:
			
		

> Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts andrepudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist actsthat may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Deeply concerned that incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States,
> 
> *SOURCE:* • *S/RES/1624* • Adopted by the Security Council at its 5261st meeting, on14 September 2005





Hollie said:


> Fatah must be having a difficult time of it. For years they have had a free hand to use infidel technology as a vehicle for incitement and a means to glorify acts of Islamic terrorism. I never understood why Facebook allowed such blatant incitement to continue Fortunately, enough public condemnation and changing attitudes toward Fatah and their islamic terrorist campaign and promotion caused Facebook to act,


*(COMMENT)*

While their is clearly a difference between speech which is acceptable, and that speech which is not acceptable or inflammatory forms of expression, it is damn difficult for me to put that distinction into words, and yet avoid being painted as endorcing censorship.

........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> There is a number of older yet interesting article_s _on this subject during the period 2016 through 2017 one of which was_ (By __Aditya Tiwari -__ May 23, 2017)_ published through Fossbyte Titled: *• Facebook’s **Secret Policies On Sex, Terrorism, Hate, And Violence Leaked •* on this subject.  And as it has been since the development of, Social Media platforms, like Facebook, is often breaking new ground in terms of ethics, morality, and standards when it comes to Facebook Pages like the Fatah/PLO Page.
> 
> Facebook, as an organizational entity, has to cope with the age old question of How Much Freedom of Speech is too much Freeedom of Speech?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Security Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts andrepudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist actsthat may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Deeply concerned that incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States,
> 
> *SOURCE:* • *S/RES/1624* • Adopted by the Security Council at its 5261st meeting, on14 September 2005
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah must be having a difficult time of it. For years they have had a free hand to use infidel technology as a vehicle for incitement and a means to glorify acts of Islamic terrorism. I never understood why Facebook allowed such blatant incitement to continue Fortunately, enough public condemnation and changing attitudes toward Fatah and their islamic terrorist campaign and promotion caused Facebook to act,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While their is clearly a difference between speech which is acceptable, and that speech which is not acceptable or inflammatory forms of expression, it is damn difficult for me to put that distinction into words, and yet avoid being painted as endorcing censorship.
> 
> ........View attachment 284421
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Who gets to decide what can be said?
Are they appointed? By whom?
Are they self appointed?
Are they elected? Who gets to choose who can vote?

The chance for abuse is almost 100%.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> There is a number of older yet interesting article_s _on this subject during the period 2016 through 2017 one of which was_ (By __Aditya Tiwari -__ May 23, 2017)_ published through Fossbyte Titled: *• Facebook’s **Secret Policies On Sex, Terrorism, Hate, And Violence Leaked •* on this subject.  And as it has been since the development of, Social Media platforms, like Facebook, is often breaking new ground in terms of ethics, morality, and standards when it comes to Facebook Pages like the Fatah/PLO Page.
> 
> Facebook, as an organizational entity, has to cope with the age old question of How Much Freedom of Speech is too much Freeedom of Speech?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Security Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts andrepudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist actsthat may incite further terrorist acts,
> 
> Deeply concerned that incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States,
> 
> *SOURCE:* • *S/RES/1624* • Adopted by the Security Council at its 5261st meeting, on14 September 2005
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah must be having a difficult time of it. For years they have had a free hand to use infidel technology as a vehicle for incitement and a means to glorify acts of Islamic terrorism. I never understood why Facebook allowed such blatant incitement to continue Fortunately, enough public condemnation and changing attitudes toward Fatah and their islamic terrorist campaign and promotion caused Facebook to act,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While their is clearly a difference between speech which is acceptable, and that speech which is not acceptable or inflammatory forms of expression, it is damn difficult for me to put that distinction into words, and yet avoid being painted as endorcing censorship.
> 
> ........View attachment 284421
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I don’t disagree, Rocco. This is one of those issues where any limitation on free speech can be chilling as where does anyone cross the line. 

Firstly, I wasn't precise in identifying calls for gee-had and “martyrdom” operations as, in my opinion, crossing the line. I can see where the _generally_ accepted limits (incitement to commit illegal acts, libel, slander, etc.) are reasonable as those limits protect others from harm / bodily harm. 

As for the usual tactics of Fatah and Hamas raising the next generation of psychopaths with the glorification of mass murder / suicide, that is again, in my opinion free speech. Although ironically, I'm applying western standards of free speech to authoritarian regimes which don't allow such freedoms to those miniions in the mini-caliphates they control.


----------



## Hollie

Don't question it. 

Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a survival instinct, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do). 

It is the inverse of such a survival instinct to teach children that slaughtering others in "glorious" acts of mass murder / suicide will get them carnal rewards in some afterlife.



Palestinian Media Watch

*Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
Itamar Marcus  | Jul 18, 2019
*Fatah: Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee"*

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation." Accordingly for Fatah, as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Don't question it.
> 
> Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a survival instinct, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do).
> 
> It is the inverse of such a survival instinct to teach children that slaughtering others in "glorious" acts of mass murder / suicide will get them carnal rewards in some afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Itamar Marcus  | Jul 18, 2019
> *Fatah: Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee"*
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation." Accordingly for Fatah, as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel.


Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.

What is your response?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't question it.
> 
> Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a survival instinct, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do).
> 
> It is the inverse of such a survival instinct to teach children that slaughtering others in "glorious" acts of mass murder / suicide will get them carnal rewards in some afterlife.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Itamar Marcus  | Jul 18, 2019
> *Fatah: Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee"*
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation." Accordingly for Fatah, as long as Israel exists Palestinians will have the right to kill Israeli children, as part of its "legitimate" struggle to destroy Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
Click to expand...

As usual, you sidestepped around my post.

Your response was islamo-tap dancing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?


*(COMMENT)*

In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.

The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:

◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.

◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.


Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.


----------



## Hollie

Yes, the "Park of Return".

Although, as you might expect, it's a cynical attempt by Hamas to cove some rather glaring inconsistencies regarding the ruling class and the disposable minions.

Hamas Set to Inaugurate Children’s Park Near Site of Violent Gaza Border Riots
*
*
The committee said, “The park is a message of our people’s life and continuity in the face of the occupation, that we are rooted in our land and cling to hope and life.”

The park is likely a response to criticism of the ruling Hamas terrorist group that it has been deliberately putting children in harm’s way during the riots, the _Yediot_ report states.

This criticism has also taken on a class dimension, as Hamas is being blamed for exploiting the children of the poor, who are disproportionately placed among the rioters, while children from wealthy and connected families are not.

There are also claims that Hamas is not funding medical care for children injured in the riots.

To mark the opening of the park, further riots were held under the name “Our Martyrs,” which the committee called “an appeal to the international community to appeal to the International Court of Justice in The Hague against Israel for its crimes against the children in the Gaza Strip.”




Maybe I'm somehow missing some context here but I would think that "crimes against the children in the Gaza Strip" would take the form of exploiting children of the poor, "lower class" by way of using them as a disposable commodity at the border riots.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.


It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
Click to expand...


Indeed, that's just nonsense. That is nothing more than inventing excuses for the islamic terrorist pattern of behavior of waging war from civilian areas. Make all the cheap excuses you wish but the pattern is clear.

Indeed, here's a thought, instead of your heroes in Hamas using their military uniforms in silly fashion show parades _after_ they suffer humiliating beatdowns, suggest to them they wage war while wearing those uniforms.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

OH!  For Heaven's sake.  This is an attempt to truncate the story that leads up to the third such incursion to quiet "the collapse of American-sponsored peace talks, attempts by rival Palestinian factions to form a coalition government, the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers, the subsequent kidnapping and murder of a Palestinian teenager,"_ (New York Times 8 July '14 By Steven Erlanger and Isabel Kershner)_ and over 1000+ rocket attacks by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  These hostile actions by the HoAP, which constituted the precursor to the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict _(Operation Protective Edge)_ response to the continuous indiscriminate rocket fire. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

One aspect angle of the HoAP propaganda strategy is to make the HoAP look like the victim and to make organizations like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) _(just to name a few)_, look like valiant resistance fighters.  And it is amazingly crafty how the pro-Palestinians do it.  I give you the example here by P F Tinmore.  Here he attempts to shift the blame towards the Israelis by making them the action appear to be an unjustified act of aggression.  

Israel really does not have to justify any action it has since the War of Independence in 1948.  In each case, there has been ample justification that the HoAP has used the threat of - or - the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.  

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, that's just nonsense. That is nothing more than inventing excuses for the islamic terrorist pattern of behavior of waging war from civilian areas. Make all the cheap excuses you wish but the pattern is clear.
> 
> Indeed, here's a thought, instead of your heroes in Hamas using their military uniforms in silly fashion show parades _after_ they suffer humiliating beatdowns, suggest to them they wage war while wearing those uniforms.
Click to expand...

Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.

Nonsense, Israel attacks Palestinians, at home, without provocation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> OH!  For Heaven's sake.  This is an attempt to truncate the story that leads up to the third such incursion to quiet "the collapse of American-sponsored peace talks, attempts by rival Palestinian factions to form a coalition government, the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers, the subsequent kidnapping and murder of a Palestinian teenager,"_ (New York Times 8 July '14 By Steven Erlanger and Isabel Kershner)_ and over 1000+ rocket attacks by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  These hostile actions by the HoAP, which constituted the precursor to the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict _(Operation Protective Edge)_ response to the continuous indiscriminate rocket fire.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One aspect angle of the HoAP propaganda strategy is to make the HoAP look like the victim and to make organizations like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) _(just to name a few)_, look like valiant resistance fighters.  And it is amazingly crafty how the pro-Palestinians do it.  I give you the example here by P F Tinmore.  Here he attempts to shift the blame towards the Israelis by making them the action appear to be an unjustified act of aggression.
> 
> Israel really does not have to justify any action it has since the War of Independence in 1948.  In each case, there has been ample justification that the HoAP has used the threat of - or - the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.
> 
> .........View attachment 284566
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is no "right" to defend a colonial project.

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, that's just nonsense. That is nothing more than inventing excuses for the islamic terrorist pattern of behavior of waging war from civilian areas. Make all the cheap excuses you wish but the pattern is clear.
> 
> Indeed, here's a thought, instead of your heroes in Hamas using their military uniforms in silly fashion show parades _after_ they suffer humiliating beatdowns, suggest to them they wage war while wearing those uniforms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> Nonsense, Israel attacks Palestinians, at home, without provocation.
Click to expand...


Indeed, I understand you're joking as continued rocket fire from Gaza was the impetus for the Israeli response to islamic terrorist provocation. Indeed, you might add a clown face to your posting image so everyone is clear your joking.

You might consider that Israel had every legitimate right to respond to the islamic terrorist attacks.

As we know, from your continue insistence, the Treaty of Lausanne created the "Country of Pally'land" in 1924. The attacks aimed at Israel coming from the "Country of Pally'land" thus constituted an act of war and Israel responded as necessary to protect its citizens.

Odd that your islamic terrorist heroes never wore military uniforms identifying themselves as waging war on behalf of the "Country of Pally'land".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> OH!  For Heaven's sake.  This is an attempt to truncate the story that leads up to the third such incursion to quiet "the collapse of American-sponsored peace talks, attempts by rival Palestinian factions to form a coalition government, the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers, the subsequent kidnapping and murder of a Palestinian teenager,"_ (New York Times 8 July '14 By Steven Erlanger and Isabel Kershner)_ and over 1000+ rocket attacks by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  These hostile actions by the HoAP, which constituted the precursor to the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict _(Operation Protective Edge)_ response to the continuous indiscriminate rocket fire.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One aspect angle of the HoAP propaganda strategy is to make the HoAP look like the victim and to make organizations like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) _(just to name a few)_, look like valiant resistance fighters.  And it is amazingly crafty how the pro-Palestinians do it.  I give you the example here by P F Tinmore.  Here he attempts to shift the blame towards the Israelis by making them the action appear to be an unjustified act of aggression.
> 
> Israel really does not have to justify any action it has since the War of Independence in 1948.  In each case, there has been ample justification that the HoAP has used the threat of - or - the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.
> 
> .........View attachment 284566
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no "right" to defend a colonial project.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...


Indeed, what is the history of the geographic area of Palestine if not a Turkish then Arab colonial project.

Indeed, you should look that up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, that's just nonsense. That is nothing more than inventing excuses for the islamic terrorist pattern of behavior of waging war from civilian areas. Make all the cheap excuses you wish but the pattern is clear.
> 
> Indeed, here's a thought, instead of your heroes in Hamas using their military uniforms in silly fashion show parades _after_ they suffer humiliating beatdowns, suggest to them they wage war while wearing those uniforms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> Nonsense, Israel attacks Palestinians, at home, without provocation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, I understand you're joking as continued rocket fire from Gaza was the impetus for the Israeli response to islamic terrorist provocation. Indeed, you might add a clown face to your posting image so everyone is clear your joking.
> 
> You might consider that Israel had every legitimate right to respond to the islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> As we know, from your continue insistence, the Treaty of Lausanne created the "Country of Pally'land" in 1924. The attacks aimed at Israel coming from the "Country of Pally'land" thus constituted an act of war and Israel responded as necessary to protect its citizens.
> 
> Odd that your islamic terrorist heroes never wore military uniforms identifying themselves as waging war on behalf of the "Country of Pally'land".
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Odd that your islamic terrorist heroes


Name calling is a sign of losing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, that's just nonsense. That is nothing more than inventing excuses for the islamic terrorist pattern of behavior of waging war from civilian areas. Make all the cheap excuses you wish but the pattern is clear.
> 
> Indeed, here's a thought, instead of your heroes in Hamas using their military uniforms in silly fashion show parades _after_ they suffer humiliating beatdowns, suggest to them they wage war while wearing those uniforms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> Nonsense, Israel attacks Palestinians, at home, without provocation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, I understand you're joking as continued rocket fire from Gaza was the impetus for the Israeli response to islamic terrorist provocation. Indeed, you might add a clown face to your posting image so everyone is clear your joking.
> 
> You might consider that Israel had every legitimate right to respond to the islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> As we know, from your continue insistence, the Treaty of Lausanne created the "Country of Pally'land" in 1924. The attacks aimed at Israel coming from the "Country of Pally'land" thus constituted an act of war and Israel responded as necessary to protect its citizens.
> 
> Odd that your islamic terrorist heroes never wore military uniforms identifying themselves as waging war on behalf of the "Country of Pally'land".
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> The attacks aimed at Israel coming from the "Country of Pally'land" thus constituted an act of war and Israel responded as necessary to protect its citizens.


The Palestinians do not attack outside their territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, this is another fallacy.  Two Points:

◈  There is no International Law, Treaty or Convention that prevents Israel from defending itself against outside influences or subversion.  None...

◈  Israel is sattelite of an American, British, or European colonial expansion.  There is no imperial power or parent nation involved.  Israel is just one of several nations that came about and was released from Mandate and subsequent International Trusteeship _(Article 77, UN Charter)_.  It declared Independence under its rRightof Self-Determination.​
You make this statement as if it is somehow applicable.  And I'm quite sure that you cannot find such an applicable citation that prevents Israel's Right to Self-Defense.



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no "right" to defend a colonial project.
> Look it up.


*(COMMENT)*

This accusation of "colonialism" is just another dimension by pro-Palestinian operatives and activities with the goal to undermine the concept of sovereignty and Israel's status as a standalone Independent nation.

........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, this is another fallacy.  Two Points:
> 
> ◈  There is no International Law, Treaty or Convention that prevents Israel from defending itself against outside influences or subversion.  None...
> 
> ◈  Israel is sattelite of an American, British, or European colonial expansion.  There is no imperial power or parent nation involved.  Israel is just one of several nations that came about and was released from Mandate and subsequent International Trusteeship _(Article 77, UN Charter)_.  It declared Independence under its rRightof Self-Determination.​
> You make this statement as if it is somehow applicable.  And I'm quite sure that you cannot find such an applicable citation that prevents Israel's Right to Self-Defense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no "right" to defend a colonial project.
> Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This accusation of "colonialism" is just another dimension by pro-Palestinian operatives and activities with the goal to undermine the concept of sovereignty and Israel's status as a standalone Independent nation.
> 
> ........View attachment 284587
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.

Who told you it is not colonialism?


----------



## Ropey

Here's what's happening in the moment.

13 factions in #Gaza are against the Turkish offensive in northern #Syria.

What is interesting is that Hamas is missing from that gathering. Perhaps they don’t want to anger their Turkish patrons?

13 factions in Gaza... not counting Hamas and the factions that are for the Turkish offensive.

That's a whole lot of mercenary grosups.  The GCC is rounding them up ... while the Turks take out the ISIS fighters.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, this is another fallacy.  Two Points:
> 
> ◈  There is no International Law, Treaty or Convention that prevents Israel from defending itself against outside influences or subversion.  None...
> 
> ◈  Israel is sattelite of an American, British, or European colonial expansion.  There is no imperial power or parent nation involved.  Israel is just one of several nations that came about and was released from Mandate and subsequent International Trusteeship _(Article 77, UN Charter)_.  It declared Independence under its rRightof Self-Determination.​
> You make this statement as if it is somehow applicable.  And I'm quite sure that you cannot find such an applicable citation that prevents Israel's Right to Self-Defense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no "right" to defend a colonial project.
> Look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This accusation of "colonialism" is just another dimension by pro-Palestinian operatives and activities with the goal to undermine the concept of sovereignty and Israel's status as a standalone Independent nation.
> 
> ........View attachment 284587
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
Click to expand...

It may take you a bit to find a YouTube video but please identify what colonial settlements Israel is building.  How does that term apply?


----------



## Hollie

*Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent*

Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent | Arbitrary Arrest and Torture Under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas

Arbitrary Arrest and Torture Under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas




*Summary*
In the 25 years since Palestinians gained a degree of self-rule over the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, their authorities have established machineries of repression to crush dissent, including through the use of torture.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)

In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?


*(COMMENT)*



			
				The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
			
		

> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •


The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.



			
				Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
			
		

> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •


As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.

Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.

BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Decades of welfare payments have been very good for those at the top of the Hamas islamic terrorist franchise. 





Palestinian Poverty: Who Isn't Sharing the Wealth?


Professor Ahmed Karima of Al-Azhar University in Egypt claims that *Hamas has some 1,200 millionaires among its members*, but is unwilling to reveal his sources.

Corroborating this claim, albeit on a lesser scale, Deborah Danan writes:

Pan-Arab London based paper, Asharq al Awsat, which is considered a reliable media outlet, recently ran a story saying *there are 600 millionaires in Gaza*.

Moreover, as Ynet detailed:

In 2010, Egyptian magazine Rose al-Yusuf reported that [Hamas leader Ismael] Haniyeh paid for $4 million for a 2,500 m sq parcel of land area in Rimal, a tiny beachfront neighborhood of Gaza City.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.

Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.

Settler Colonialism
---------------------
This is a perfect definition of Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Under the UN Charter, pertaining to Chapter XI • Article 73e, DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES (NSGT), neither Israel or Arab Palestine are listed as a Colonial Nation _(ie The Administrating Power)_, nor as a country under the control of colonial power _(Non-Self-Governing Territory)_. 
[ccenter]


 
[/center]

The first thing you will notice is that the Committee 24 (C-24 Bureau), does not show any NSGT East of Gibraltor → until you reach → Guam in the Pacific Ocean.   


P F Tinmore said:


> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

"The C-24 Bureau annually reviews the list of NSGTs to which the Declaration (_meaning the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples A/RES/15/1514 XV_) is applicable."  You cannot just decide that the Territories in dispute _(West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza)_ fall into the category of NSGTs.

There currently are only four nations that administer NSGTs _(US, UK, NZ, France)_.  At one time, there were 74 Territories to which Chapter XI of the Charter applied.  Currently, there are only 14 NSGT _(if you include the Western Sahara)_.  

I hope you can understand the intent here?

It would be interesting for you to tell us just what Customary or International Humanitarian Law you see that names either a Colonial Power or a Dependent Nation anywhere in the Middle East in contemporary times _(since 1948 and the establishment of Israel)_. 

........... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
Click to expand...


Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted? 

You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.

That's poor cricket, Laddie.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted?
> 
> You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.
> 
> That's poor cricket, Laddie.
Click to expand...

Is that so?

Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Under the UN Charter, pertaining to Chapter XI • Article 73e, DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES (NSGT), neither Israel or Arab Palestine are listed as a Colonial Nation _(ie The Administrating Power)_, nor as a country under the control of colonial power _(Non-Self-Governing Territory)_.
> [ccenter]
> View attachment 284717
> [/center]
> 
> The first thing you will notice is that the Committee 24 (C-24 Bureau), does not show any NSGT East of Gibraltor → until you reach → Guam in the Pacific Ocean.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "The C-24 Bureau annually reviews the list of NSGTs to which the Declaration (_meaning the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples A/RES/15/1514 XV_) is applicable."  You cannot just decide that the Territories in dispute _(West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza)_ fall into the category of NSGTs.
> 
> There currently are only four nations that administer NSGTs _(US, UK, NZ, France)_.  At one time, there were 74 Territories to which Chapter XI of the Charter applied.  Currently, there are only 14 NSGT _(if you include the Western Sahara)_.
> 
> I hope you can understand the intent here?
> 
> It would be interesting for you to tell us just what Customary or International Humanitarian Law you see that names either a Colonial Power or a Dependent Nation anywhere in the Middle East in contemporary times _(since 1948 and the establishment of Israel)_.
> 
> ...........View attachment 284716
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There currently are only four nations that administer NSGTs _(US, UK, NZ, France)_.


Of course those are based on a political perspective. The legal perspective has only recently come to the fore.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted?
> 
> You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.
> 
> That's poor cricket, Laddie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that so?
> 
> Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​
Click to expand...


That's so. 

"Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa,"


----------



## Hollie

The linked article raises a host of questions suggesting answers that don't appeal to a wondrous Country of Pal'istan (_Where Dreams Come True_).

A Hamas caliphate in the West Bank would present a real threat to the Arab states as they would see that as a threat from an encroaching Iran. 
With Hizbollah next door in Jordan, the feared "Shia Crescent" might be viewed by the Arab state as coming to fruition. 




https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/10/16/pa-elections-will-result-in-hamas-taking-over-the-west-bank/

Despite the diplomatic schism between Israel and the PA, security coordination is ticking along, mostly because no one – not Israel, Jordan, or the PA – wants to see Hamas in power in Ramallah*.
*
Jerusalem, Ramallah, and Amman are in rare agreement when it comes to elections for the Palestinian presidency in east Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. In a speech at the United Nations last month, PA President Mahmoud Abbas declared that PA elections would lead to Hamas defeating Fatah and the organization seizing control of the Palestinian Authority, quickly and brutally ousting Fatah officials from all government agencies, ministries, and the PA security and intelligence apparatuses.

Senior Palestinian officials say that Abbas' close associates acknowledge that recent polls indicate clearly that if PA parliament elections were held now, not only would Hamas beat Fatah, but Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would also beat Abbas in a race for the presidency by a considerable margin.


----------



## Hollie

Another Religion of Peace adherent is reinforcing the notion that the Cult of Pal'istan is a very dark place. 




*Top Fatah official calls for “escalation” so Israelis will “pay a heavy price every day”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 15, 2019
*Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki:

Top Fatah official calls for “escalation” so Israelis will “pay a heavy price every day” |PMW Analysis*


*"There is no avoiding an escalating policy on the ground with great momentum from the masses, which will not allow the occupiers to live routine lives. Their occupation of our land must have a heavy price, which they will pay every day"*

*"If we [Fatah and Hamas] consolidate our ranks and unify our internal front... then we will certainly defeat our enemy, which is Israel."*
*Zaki in speech to Palestinian youth:*


*"If this enemy [Israel] and America continue with their arrogance, then [our descendants will wave the flag] above Jaffa, the Negev, the Galilee, the Carmel, the Triangle, etc. Land that we don't restore - we are not worthy of it."*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​



The point you always miss is that return is not colonialism.  Colonialism requires a parent territory.  Return suggests the parent territory is the place of return.  It is what separates Arab Palestinian return from colonialism.  And it is what separates Jewish return from colonialism.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted?
> 
> You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.
> 
> That's poor cricket, Laddie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that so?
> 
> Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​
Click to expand...


Since, according to your own source, the United States is a colonial state, you should move out of here before continuing with any more hypocritical tirades against Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted?
> 
> You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.
> 
> That's poor cricket, Laddie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that so?
> 
> Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since, according to your own source, the United States is a colonial state, you should move out of here before continuing with any more hypocritical tirades against Israel.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there was no international law back then.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> ​As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted?
> 
> You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.
> 
> That's poor cricket, Laddie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that so?
> 
> Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since, according to your own source, the United States is a colonial state, you should move out of here before continuing with any more hypocritical tirades against Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately, there was no international law back then.
Click to expand...


Too bad. That might have prevented the Arab-Islamist colonization of the area.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Another Religion of Peace adherent is reinforcing the notion that the Cult of Pal'istan is a very dark place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Top Fatah official calls for “escalation” so Israelis will “pay a heavy price every day”*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 15, 2019
> *Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki:
> 
> Top Fatah official calls for “escalation” so Israelis will “pay a heavy price every day” |PMW Analysis*
> 
> 
> *"There is no avoiding an escalating policy on the ground with great momentum from the masses, which will not allow the occupiers to live routine lives. Their occupation of our land must have a heavy price, which they will pay every day"*
> 
> *"If we [Fatah and Hamas] consolidate our ranks and unify our internal front... then we will certainly defeat our enemy, which is Israel."*
> *Zaki in speech to Palestinian youth:*
> 
> 
> *"If this enemy [Israel] and America continue with their arrogance, then [our descendants will wave the flag] above Jaffa, the Negev, the Galilee, the Carmel, the Triangle, etc. Land that we don't restore - we are not worthy of it."*






_*"Pal'istan."*_


----------



## member

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> From the perspective of the Arab → Zionists gave assurances that they wanted only to deliver the Jews from persecution, and spoke euphemistically of a “home” rather than a “state.” But the Arab Conspiracy theory is that they in fact planned all along for a “terrorist invasion.” “Zionist racism”—adduced in references to feelings among Jews of racial supremacy, the allotment of work in Israel according to national origin, and social segregation—is believed to be part of “Zionist colonialism.” Seen in such terms, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict becomes a “war of national liberation.”  (Pg 195 - Political Science: A Global Perspective)
> 
> In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians changed the definition of "colonialism" to fit their agenda.  And they have repeated this view so often that that people begin to believe it since a vast majority of people don't fact-check the Arab Palestinian Commentaries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism. The British called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. Israel is still building colonial settlements.
> 
> Who told you it is not colonialism?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Routledge Dictionary of Politics • by David Robertson • THIRD EDITION said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism*
> Colonialism is the holding and ownership of colonies, or the treating of another country as though it was, in fact, a colony. Indeed recently the concept has been extended to refer to ‘internal’ colonialism, where the capital or economically dominant part of a country treats a distant region just as it might a genuinely foreign colony. For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> •  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence
> from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright
> exploitation.
> •  The entire reason for having colonies is to increase the wealth and
> welfare of the colonial power, either by extracting resources, material or labour
> from the colony more cheaply than they could be bought on a free market, or
> by ensuring a market for one’s own goods at advantageous rates.​SOURCE:  • The Routledge Dictionary of Politics (Pg 89) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that over a century ago, the Zionist of that era used that term once or twice, does not mean that there actually was a Colonial Power acting as the Parent and pursuing the extraction of the resources available.  And there is no evidence that the Jewish people that immigrated to the territory _(formerly under the Mandate)_ were exploited the labor of a foreign colonial power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalism, tribalism, and colonialism, and their wars and terrors, often bring with them a single-minded allegiance to a cause, secular or religious, framed in terms of absolute righteousness or legitimacy (the exterminatory operation might even be called a “peace mission” or “civilizing mission”; see CIVILIZATION) and closed off to consideration of the others’ perspectives—indeed, to their humanity.
> SOURCE:  • Dictionary of the Loaded Language of Political Violence (Pg 61) •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As to who told me?  Well, it seems, though meager as it is, I have an education and I can read.  And when I don't understand a word, I look-it-up → and how it is used.
> 
> Clearly, you have a different definition from mine.  But as you can see, I looked that up as well.  Today, the words Colonialism and Imperialism by the European powers had created an international commercial and economic framework of a continuing dependency in Third World countries on the global industrialized nations of the world.
> 
> BUT, you should be aware that many nations see a set of economic and political conditions by which former colonial powers strive to maintain their domination over a decolonized country. It also designates the cultural predisposition to promote or support such practices. Today, we call this "Neo-colonialism."  And this language often misleads people.  The attempt to prevent Israel from establishing its independence was an early form of "neo-colonialism."  The Arab League wanted to establish is control over the commercial and economic framework of the region in order to advance its coffers.
> 
> .........View attachment 284634
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is a distinct type of colonialism that functions through the replacement of indigenous populations with an invasive settler society that, over time, develops a distinctive identity and sovereignty. Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like Israel, Kenya, and Argentina, and in tracing the colonial legacies of empires that engaged in the widespread foundation of settlement colonies.
> 
> Settler colonialism can be distinguished from other forms of colonialism – including classical or metropole colonialism, and neo-colonialism – by a number of key features. First, settler colonisers “come to stay”: unlike colonial agents such as traders, soldiers, or governors, settler collectives intend to permanently occupy and assert sovereignty over indigenous lands. Second, settler colonial invasion is a structure, not an event: settler colonialism persists in the ongoing elimination of indigenous populations, and the assertion of state sovereignty and juridical control over their lands.
> 
> Settler Colonialism
> ---------------------
> This is a perfect definition of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you notice that there was no mention of Israel in what you cut and pasted?
> 
> You needed to add your own one-liner to an article that didn't support your contention.
> 
> That's poor cricket, Laddie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that so?
> 
> Settler colonial states include Canada, the United States, Australia, and South Africa, and settler colonial theory has been important to understanding conflicts in places like *Israel*, Kenya, and Argentina,​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since, according to your own source, the United States is a colonial state, you should move out of here before continuing with any more hypocritical tirades against Israel.
Click to expand...


_*"hypocritical tirades..."*_

there's a can left...help yourself.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
Click to expand...

*It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians. *

And where you can find the Hamas launch sites.
Next to schools and hospitals.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed 550 children in its 2014 assault on Gaza.
> 
> What is your response?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians. *
> 
> And where you can find the Hamas launch sites.
> Next to schools and hospitals.
Click to expand...

Not true. Another BS Israeli talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians. *
> 
> And where you can find the Hamas launch sites.
> Next to schools and hospitals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Another BS Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Another Arab-Moslem terrorist who won’t be driving anytime soon. 
*

Palestinian Shot After Ramming Car Into Unmarked Israeli Police Vehicle *

The incident occurred following arrests by Israeli forces in Al-Amari refugee camp in the West Bank city of Ramallah

Palestinian shot after ramming car into unmarked Israeli police vehicle





The resident's car following the car-ramming in Ramallah, October 16, 2019. Israel Border Police
 A Palestinian man was shot by undercover Israeli police after he rammed his car into the vehicle of a unit that was conducting arrests in a Ramallah refugee camp, Israel Border Police said on Thursday


----------



## Hollie

Abu Mazen has lots of money to pay Islamic terrorists. Paying his electric bill, well nor so much. I suppose Abu just assumed that electric service was just another welfare benefit that someone else was supposed to pay for. 


ISRAEL TO INCREASE CUTS TO ELECTRICITY PROVIDED TO PALESTINIANS

Israel to increase cuts to electricity provided to Palestinians





The Palestinian Authority owes about NIS 300 billion and about an additional NIS 150 million due to occurrences of theft of electricity.


Jerusalem District Electricity Company (JDECO) chairman of the board and CEO Hisham Omari said that the company had received the first warning of the second step of electricity of cuts to Palestinians in the West Bank due to unpaid debts and theft, according to the Palestinian WAFA news. The first stage of power cuts was announced in September.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> The aperiodic Armed Conflict between the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a reasonably foreseeable event.  And it is these aperiodic Armed Conflicts which are the proximate cause of the deaths in which our friend (P F Tinmore) claims here.  And it is here in which we must determine whether the HoAP or the IDF → intentionally committed such acts and knowingly instigated the engagement.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the year 2014, over thousands of rockets and mortars were fired from the HAMAS Gaza Strip.  This precipitated the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict also known as Operation Protective Edge.  The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS also, in the months preceding Operation Protective Edge, intentionally:
> 
> ◈  Located military objectives into the densely populated civilian locations.
> 
> ◈   Failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP-IDF military confrontations.​These two actions, by utilizing the presence of vulnerable civilians set the conditions that would cause the IDF to increase the inadvertent incidents of civilian casualties and to render such other HAMAS operations immune from IDF operations.  And, as such casualties were used to incite the media circus coverage of the conflict → supporting the claims that Israel violated Customary and International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> ........View attachment 284558
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP of HAMAS intentionally set the conditions which forced Israel to take such action.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians. *
> 
> And where you can find the Hamas launch sites.
> Next to schools and hospitals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Another BS Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


They aren't launching next to schools?
Or they aren't really schools?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

This is kind of interesting in that it demonstrates a past history of the nonexistence of fiscal responsibility. 



Hollie said:


> Abu Mazen has lots of money to pay Islamic terrorists. Paying his electric bill, well nor so much. I suppose Abu just assumed that electric service was just another welfare benefit that someone else was supposed to pay for.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority owes about NIS 300 billion and about an additional NIS 150 million due to occurrences of theft of electricity.
> 
> Jerusalem District Electricity Company (JDECO) chairman of the board and CEO Hisham Omari said that the company had received the first warning of the second step of electricity of cuts to Palestinians in the West Bank due to unpaid debts and theft, according to the Palestinian WAFA news. The first stage of power cuts was announced in September.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians have brought this on themselves.   Let the ungrateful nation go into to debt. 

.......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Toddsterpatriot, et al,

In the last big incursion, triggered by Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) provocation _(Israeli Operation Protective Edge)_ it was the case that the HoAP admitted using schools and hospitals as 'human shields' in rocket attacks.



Toddsterpatriot said:


> They aren't launching next to schools?
> Or they aren't really schools?


*(COMMENT)*

It is a violation that is not even up for debate.  The operational practices of today have not not changed from that of 2014.


*Hamas DID use schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as ...*
https://*www.dailymail.co.uk*/news/article-2753176/...
Sep 12, 2014 · *Hamas admits* it DID *use schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as 'human shields*' to launch rocket *attacks on Israel* - but claims it was 'mistake' Official says group had …
*Refusing responsibility, Hamas admits to using schools ...*
https://*www.catholic.org*/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=56905
Sep 15, 2014 · Senior *Hamas* official comes clean two weeks after end of war. Two weeks after the ceasefire, a *Hamas* official *admits* that his organization DID *use schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as* "*human shields*" to launch rocket *attacks on Israel*…
*Author:* Catholic Online (NEWS CONSORTIUM)

*Hamas admits it DID use schools and hospitals in Gaza ...*https://*www.democraticunderground.com*/113481359
32 rows · *Hamas admits* it DID *use schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as 'human shields*' to …
*Hamas Quietly Admits It Fired Rockets from Civilian Areas ...*
https://*www.theatlantic.com*/international/archive/2014/09/*hamas*-quietly-*admits*-it...
Sep 12, 2014 · Hamas Quietly Admits It Fired Rockets from Civilian Areas. The public line uttered by *Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu* and his surrogates was that Hamas was committing "*double war crimes*" by firing from heavily populated civilian centers (using human shields) into *Israeli towns* (to attack other civilians.)
*Author:* Adam Chandler

*Cowardly Hamas Admits Using Human Shields And Hospitals To ...*
Cowardly Hamas Admits Using Human Shields And Hospitals To Attack Israel • Now The End Begins*hamas*...
Sep 12, 2014 · *Hamas* appeared to *admit using human shields* to fire rockets into *Israel* for the first time today, but refused to *accept* responsibility for the *slaughter* of hundreds of innocent *Palestinians killed* in retaliatory airstrikes.
*Hamas admits it DID use schools and hospitals in Gaza ...*
Suy tư...                                                                          Thinking...: September 2014*hamas*-*admits*-it-did-*use*-*schools*-and.html
*Hamas* appeared to *admit using human shields* to fire rockets into *Israel* for the first time today, but refused to *accept* responsibility for the *slaughter* of hundreds of innocent *Palestinians killed* in retaliatory airstrikes.
*The inhumanity of Hamas' human shields - Washington Times*
https://*www.washingtontimes.com*/news/2018/may/31/...
May 31, 2018 · What *Hamas* likely *won’t admit* is that the other Palestinians who died during this *altercation were used as human shields* to protect the terrorists. They are seen as *martyrs to Hamas*, people who had...
*Author:* Joe Wilson

*UN report outlines how Hamas used kids as human shields*
https://*nypost.com*/2015/05/02/un-report-outlines-how-*hamas*-*use*d-kids-*as-human*-*shields*
UN report outlines how *Hamas used kids as human shields*. And in at least one *school* where weapons were stored, the report found, *Hamas* unlocked the gate “to allow *children access* to the schoolyard.” In fact, *Hamas* has long *used* UN *facilities* as a staging grounds and observation posts for attacks on Israel.
*Author:* Post Editorial Board

*Why Hamas stores its weapons inside hospitals, mosques and ...*
https://*www.washingtonpost.com*/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/31/why-*hamas*-stores-its...
Jul 31, 2014 · In addition to an elaborate tunnel system, there was the “integral *use* of civilians and civilian *facilities* as cover for its military activity; *schools*, mosques, *hospitals*, and civilian *housing* became weapons storage *facilities*, *Hamas* headquarters, and fighting positions … IDF imagery and combat intelligence revealed extensive *use*...
*Author:* Terrence Mccoy

*Sources from Hamas itself claiming to use human shields.*https://www.quora.com/Has-*Hamas*-fired-*rockets*-from-inside-*schools*-*hospitals*-and...There is no proof that Hamas uses human shields. Placing military assets near civilian ones is not using human shields. One needs to actively place or move civilians around a military asset and keep them there to deter attacks in order for it to be considered a human shield. There is proof Israel has used Palestinians as human shields in the past.
It is what it is.  And if you go back to *Posting #14388*, you will see that I mentioned this once again.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is kind of interesting in that it demonstrates a past history of the nonexistence of fiscal responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abu Mazen has lots of money to pay Islamic terrorists. Paying his electric bill, well nor so much. I suppose Abu just assumed that electric service was just another welfare benefit that someone else was supposed to pay for.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority owes about NIS 300 billion and about an additional NIS 150 million due to occurrences of theft of electricity.
> 
> Jerusalem District Electricity Company (JDECO) chairman of the board and CEO Hisham Omari said that the company had received the first warning of the second step of electricity of cuts to Palestinians in the West Bank due to unpaid debts and theft, according to the Palestinian WAFA news. The first stage of power cuts was announced in September.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have brought this on themselves.   Let the ungrateful nation go into to debt.
> 
> ..........View attachment 284878
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Agreed, Rocco. I would push even further and define the role of government, at a very basic level, as providing for the health, safety and welfare of the governed. By those standards, neither Hamas or Fatah are able to provide even the most basic elements of government. The role of government as practiced by those entities is seemingly turned upside down as the actions of Hamas and Fatah literally enable the circumstances that cause their populations to suffer.


----------



## Hollie

I’m afraid Mahmoud just can’t let go of the insult he suffered when the Great Satan™️ halted their UNRWA welfare payments.




PA accuses U.S., Israel of trafficking Palestinian organs



> A 10-acre, 500-bed hospital being built in northern Gaza was donated by the US nonprofit organization Friendship and is partially funded by Qatar.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is carrying out a libel campaign against the United States and Israel, claiming that a new field hospital in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip will “serve the US as an early warning, monitoring and espionage station.”



Oh, and don’t forget about stealing organs, too.



> “In an op-ed published on October 2 in the official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida _and translated by Palestinian Media Watch, columnist Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul writes that the hospital will “carry out experiments on sick Palestinians, and not treat them and care for their health… and it is possible that the hospital will be a partner in the trafficking of human organs.”


----------



## Hollie

His Excellency, Abu (_King, Field Marshal General, Emir of the West Bank and keeper of the Presidential Jet)_, Mazen has decided he will elect himself to the role of “_Sultan of the Qatari Suitcases Full of Cash_” 


Thursday, 17 October, 2019
*Palestine: Abbas is Fatah’s Only Candidate*

*https://m.aawsat.com/english/home/article/1949691/palestine-abbas-fatah%E2%80%99s-only-candidate*







Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is Fatah's only candidate for the presidential election, announced member of Fatah Central Committee Hussein al-Sheikh.


Sheikh said on Tuesday that the election committee is still holding discussions, and once that process is over, Abbas will set the date for the parliamentary and presidential elections.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it is attacking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians. *
> 
> And where you can find the Hamas launch sites.
> Next to schools and hospitals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Another BS Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic. Indeed, the dead civilians as a result of those actions provides you the opportunity to parade those dead bodies around like a prize you won at a street carnival.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas waging war from civilian areas is a usual tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *It is Israel who attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes. That is where you can expect to find civilians. *
> 
> And where you can find the Hamas launch sites.
> Next to schools and hospitals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Another BS Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?
Click to expand...


Let me consult my YouTube video collection.


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems have a great plan for Pal’istanian medical care; have someone else pay for for it. 

Amid the _financial crisis_™️ affecting the Abbas mini-caliphate, healthcare for Arabs-Moslems should be another welfare entitlement paid by Israel. It seems that expecting Pal’istanians to build / fund hospitals to provide for themselves is grossly unfair. 

Israel being responsible for providing healthcare to Arabs-Moslems would, of course, make money available for Abbas to pay the Islamic terrorists who attack Israel. 

Who wouldn’t be in favor of this?




Palestinian PM says Israeli doctors should treat patients in West Bank

Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh has proposed that Israeli medical doctors work in Palestinian hospitals in the West Bank as a way to save on the cost of sending patients for treatment in Israel.

The PA has long paid for most medical bills of Palestinians from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip who are referred to Israeli hospitals for treatment that is not available in Palestinian hospitals. But it stopped paying for the treatments in March amid a financial crisis caused by a dispute with Israel over the transfer of tax revenues to the PA.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Now you are just being argumentative.  You are applying the wrong event with the wrong verb.

"There is no act that can justify an act of terrorism, that" is it.



P F Tinmore said:


> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?


*(COMMENT)*

You know as well as anyone else, that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have, on a pretty regular basis, jumped out on to the street and start assaulting Israeli Police and Security while going about their Article 43 (Hague Regulation) duties _(take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety_).  And, unless you are mentally deficient, you know that this is wrong.

You know that International Humanitarian Law (IHL) stipulates that when the HoAP takes such action which is intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel), or members of the occupying forces or administration, the perpetrators are subject to punishment under the IHL.  But more importantly, when the elements of the HoAP, or when those that support the HoAP, attempt to openly violate that which is relating to moral principles under the Rule of Law (RoL) - that is wrong.  But history has shown that the HoAP has stepped outside the norms that support the equality of all people before the law and those practices which are the foundation for the development of peaceful, equitable and prosperous societies.

Don't think, for one minute, that the intentional stalling of those political processes that would re-establish regional peace, security, and justice, so endangered by the HoAP and other Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters who pretend to represent the Arab Palestinians - but, do so to accumulate wealth and power.

It does not matter what religious affiliation you promote, when the HoAP commits criminal acts, → that are calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to any civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, with the sole intention of intimidating the population of Israel, the Arab League or the Quartet, for the purpose of compelling the people of Israel, any other government or international organization to do that which furthers the objective to dismantle the Jewish National Home → is just plain wrong!

When the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, over a century ago, they did not quibble over the ultimate intention.  And when the UN allowed, what the called a "Jewish State" to declare independence from the trusteeship _(established over seven decades ago) _they did not stutter over their intention.  They saw a need and took action to rectify it while they exercised their right to future and facilitate Jewish immigration, close settlement by Jews on the land, they did not quibble.  The intention was understood.  The fact that the HoAP and hostile members of the Arab League scrambled the intention through the act of aggression in 1948 _(and an extended conflict ever since)_, did not change the intention.  It only changed the complexion of the outcome.

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now you are just being argumentative.  You are applying the wrong event with the wrong verb.
> 
> "There is no act that can justify an act of terrorism, that" is it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know as well as anyone else, that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have, on a pretty regular basis, jumped out on to the street and start assaulting Israeli Police and Security while going about their Article 43 (Hague Regulation) duties _(take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety_).  And, unless you are mentally deficient, you know that this is wrong.
> 
> You know that International Humanitarian Law (IHL) stipulates that when the HoAP takes such action which is intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel), or members of the occupying forces or administration, the perpetrators are subject to punishment under the IHL.  But more importantly, when the elements of the HoAP, or when those that support the HoAP, attempt to openly violate that which is relating to moral principles under the Rule of Law (RoL) - that is wrong.  But history has shown that the HoAP has stepped outside the norms that support the equality of all people before the law and those practices which are the foundation for the development of peaceful, equitable and prosperous societies.
> 
> Don't think, for one minute, that the intentional stalling of those political processes that would re-establish regional peace, security, and justice, so endangered by the HoAP and other Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters who pretend to represent the Arab Palestinians - but, do so to accumulate wealth and power.
> 
> It does not matter what religious affiliation you promote, when the HoAP commits criminal acts, → that are calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to any civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, with the sole intention of intimidating the population of Israel, the Arab League or the Quartet, for the purpose of compelling the people of Israel, any other government or international organization to do that which furthers the objective to dismantle the Jewish National Home → is just plain wrong!
> 
> When the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, over a century ago, they did not quibble over the ultimate intention.  And when the UN allowed, what the called a "Jewish State" to declare independence from the trusteeship _(established over seven decades ago) _they did not stutter over their intention.  They saw a need and took action to rectify it while they exercised their right to future and facilitate Jewish immigration, close settlement by Jews on the land, they did not quibble.  The intention was understood.  The fact that the HoAP and hostile members of the Arab League scrambled the intention through the act of aggression in 1948 _(and an extended conflict ever since)_, did not change the intention.  It only changed the complexion of the outcome.
> 
> .........View attachment 285040
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy Israeli hooey, Batman.

You ducked the question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now you are just being argumentative.  You are applying the wrong event with the wrong verb.
> 
> "There is no act that can justify an act of terrorism, that" is it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know as well as anyone else, that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have, on a pretty regular basis, jumped out on to the street and start assaulting Israeli Police and Security while going about their Article 43 (Hague Regulation) duties _(take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety_).  And, unless you are mentally deficient, you know that this is wrong.
> 
> You know that International Humanitarian Law (IHL) stipulates that when the HoAP takes such action which is intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel), or members of the occupying forces or administration, the perpetrators are subject to punishment under the IHL.  But more importantly, when the elements of the HoAP, or when those that support the HoAP, attempt to openly violate that which is relating to moral principles under the Rule of Law (RoL) - that is wrong.  But history has shown that the HoAP has stepped outside the norms that support the equality of all people before the law and those practices which are the foundation for the development of peaceful, equitable and prosperous societies.
> 
> Don't think, for one minute, that the intentional stalling of those political processes that would re-establish regional peace, security, and justice, so endangered by the HoAP and other Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters who pretend to represent the Arab Palestinians - but, do so to accumulate wealth and power.
> 
> It does not matter what religious affiliation you promote, when the HoAP commits criminal acts, → that are calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to any civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, with the sole intention of intimidating the population of Israel, the Arab League or the Quartet, for the purpose of compelling the people of Israel, any other government or international organization to do that which furthers the objective to dismantle the Jewish National Home → is just plain wrong!
> 
> When the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, over a century ago, they did not quibble over the ultimate intention.  And when the UN allowed, what the called a "Jewish State" to declare independence from the trusteeship _(established over seven decades ago) _they did not stutter over their intention.  They saw a need and took action to rectify it while they exercised their right to future and facilitate Jewish immigration, close settlement by Jews on the land, they did not quibble.  The intention was understood.  The fact that the HoAP and hostile members of the Arab League scrambled the intention through the act of aggression in 1948 _(and an extended conflict ever since)_, did not change the intention.  It only changed the complexion of the outcome.
> 
> .........View attachment 285040
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy Israeli hooey, Batman.
> 
> You ducked the question.
Click to expand...


Brought to you by Pallywood Studios.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I did  not even see a question except the one I answered.




THE QUESTION • P F Tinmore said:


> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?


*(COMMENT)*

Asked and answered. Violation of Article 68, GCIV:  *See Posting #14437*:

*Nabi Saleh dedicates weekly demonstration to 16 year old ...*
https://*nabisaleh*solidarity.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/*nabi*-*saleh*-dedicates-weekly...Jan 25, 2013 · 18 January 2013 
*Nabi Saleh* on Friday, 18 January dedicated its weekly demonstration against *Israel* occupation and apartheid to martyr Samir Awad from *Budrus*, the 16 year old boy killed by the IOF earlier in the week. *** Israeli Army Shoots Dead 16 Year Old Palestinian in *Budrus* by Popular Struggle Coordination Committee: 18 January…​


P F Tinmore said:


> Holy Israeli hooey, Batman.
> 
> You ducked the question.


*(COMMENT)*

*◈*   You cannot ask about an external attacks _(International Armed Conflict)_ if you cannot recognize the parameters of your own "State of Palestine.  _(You cannot ask about "Alpha" and *THEN* object to the answer relative to "true domain.")_

*◈* *IF* you are considering the entirety of the territory as the relevant domain, as in the territory formerly under the Palestine Order in Council, *THEN*, from that perspective, it internal security it becomes domestic criminal activity and not an "attack" from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.

*◈ IF* you are applying the term perspective of "liberation" *THEN* you have to identify both the country establishing the occupation" and the territory to that which is "occupied."  IF you identify the State of Israel as the Occupying Power *THEN* the recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

*◈ IF* you consider the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip as the State of Palestine, *THEN* the question becomes, when was that territory declared independent by the inhabitants?​
The political-military organization (Pol-Mil) that was given to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people since 1974 _(Robat - League of Arab States)_ was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), headed by Yasser Arafat, at the time.  The PLO was a coalition of various anti-Israeli, nationalistic groups that were unified by their opposition to Israel and by their common aspirations for a Palestinian homeland. The various
factions that comprise the PLO gave the liberation movement a shaky and tenuous reputation in stability because of continuing disputes over strategy and tactics to be used in seeking their common objectives.  They still argue about this today.  What is amazing is that the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department hold to the political stance that the "State of Palestine" is based on pre-June 4th 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital.  

While the PLO came into existence in 1967 • 1968, it did not come to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people until 1974.  And the State of Israel already had control of entire West Bank, including Jerusalem for the previous seven years.  And, without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian People, was no universal "Arab Palestinian" people _(with the PLO as the sole legitimate representative)_ until 1974.  The previous sovereign of the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, was the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan which cut all ties with and abandon the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem in 1988.

The Ramallah Government for the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world _(Article 22 LoN Covenant)_.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I did  not even see a question except the one I answered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE QUESTION • P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered. Violation of Article 68, GCIV:  *See Posting #14437*:
> 
> *Nabi Saleh dedicates weekly demonstration to 16 year old ...*
> https://*nabisaleh*solidarity.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/*nabi*-*saleh*-dedicates-weekly...Jan 25, 2013 · 18 January 2013
> *Nabi Saleh* on Friday, 18 January dedicated its weekly demonstration against *Israel* occupation and apartheid to martyr Samir Awad from *Budrus*, the 16 year old boy killed by the IOF earlier in the week. *** Israeli Army Shoots Dead 16 Year Old Palestinian in *Budrus* by Popular Struggle Coordination Committee: 18 January…​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Israeli hooey, Batman.
> 
> You ducked the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *◈*   You cannot ask about an external attacks _(International Armed Conflict)_ if you cannot recognize the parameters of your own "State of Palestine.  _(You cannot ask about "Alpha" and *THEN* object to the answer relative to "true domain.")_
> 
> *◈* *IF* you are considering the entirety of the territory as the relevant domain, as in the territory formerly under the Palestine Order in Council, *THEN*, from that perspective, it internal security it becomes domestic criminal activity and not an "attack" from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.
> 
> *◈ IF* you are applying the term perspective of "liberation" *THEN* you have to identify both the country establishing the occupation" and the territory to that which is "occupied."  IF you identify the State of Israel as the Occupying Power *THEN* the recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.
> 
> *◈ IF* you consider the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip as the State of Palestine, *THEN* the question becomes, when was that territory declared independent by the inhabitants?​
> The political-military organization (Pol-Mil) that was given to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people since 1974 _(Robat - League of Arab States)_ was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), headed by Yasser Arafat, at the time.  The PLO was a coalition of various anti-Israeli, nationalistic groups that were unified by their opposition to Israel and by their common aspirations for a Palestinian homeland. The various
> factions that comprise the PLO gave the liberation movement a shaky and tenuous reputation in stability because of continuing disputes over strategy and tactics to be used in seeking their common objectives.  They still argue about this today.  What is amazing is that the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department hold to the political stance that the "State of Palestine" is based on pre-June 4th 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital.
> 
> While the PLO came into existence in 1967 • 1968, it did not come to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people until 1974.  And the State of Israel already had control of entire West Bank, including Jerusalem for the previous seven years.  And, without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian People, was no universal "Arab Palestinian" people _(with the PLO as the sole legitimate representative)_ until 1974.  The previous sovereign of the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, was the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan which cut all ties with and abandon the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem in 1988.
> 
> The Ramallah Government for the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world _(Article 22 LoN Covenant)_.
> 
> ........View attachment 285081
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman!

What does all of that happy horseshit have to do with Israel attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I did  not even see a question except the one I answered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE QUESTION • P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered. Violation of Article 68, GCIV:  *See Posting #14437*:
> 
> *Nabi Saleh dedicates weekly demonstration to 16 year old ...*
> https://*nabisaleh*solidarity.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/*nabi*-*saleh*-dedicates-weekly...Jan 25, 2013 · 18 January 2013
> *Nabi Saleh* on Friday, 18 January dedicated its weekly demonstration against *Israel* occupation and apartheid to martyr Samir Awad from *Budrus*, the 16 year old boy killed by the IOF earlier in the week. *** Israeli Army Shoots Dead 16 Year Old Palestinian in *Budrus* by Popular Struggle Coordination Committee: 18 January…​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Israeli hooey, Batman.
> 
> You ducked the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *◈*   You cannot ask about an external attacks _(International Armed Conflict)_ if you cannot recognize the parameters of your own "State of Palestine.  _(You cannot ask about "Alpha" and *THEN* object to the answer relative to "true domain.")_
> 
> *◈* *IF* you are considering the entirety of the territory as the relevant domain, as in the territory formerly under the Palestine Order in Council, *THEN*, from that perspective, it internal security it becomes domestic criminal activity and not an "attack" from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.
> 
> *◈ IF* you are applying the term perspective of "liberation" *THEN* you have to identify both the country establishing the occupation" and the territory to that which is "occupied."  IF you identify the State of Israel as the Occupying Power *THEN* the recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.
> 
> *◈ IF* you consider the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip as the State of Palestine, *THEN* the question becomes, when was that territory declared independent by the inhabitants?​
> The political-military organization (Pol-Mil) that was given to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people since 1974 _(Robat - League of Arab States)_ was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), headed by Yasser Arafat, at the time.  The PLO was a coalition of various anti-Israeli, nationalistic groups that were unified by their opposition to Israel and by their common aspirations for a Palestinian homeland. The various
> factions that comprise the PLO gave the liberation movement a shaky and tenuous reputation in stability because of continuing disputes over strategy and tactics to be used in seeking their common objectives.  They still argue about this today.  What is amazing is that the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department hold to the political stance that the "State of Palestine" is based on pre-June 4th 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital.
> 
> While the PLO came into existence in 1967 • 1968, it did not come to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people until 1974.  And the State of Israel already had control of entire West Bank, including Jerusalem for the previous seven years.  And, without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian People, was no universal "Arab Palestinian" people _(with the PLO as the sole legitimate representative)_ until 1974.  The previous sovereign of the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, was the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan which cut all ties with and abandon the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem in 1988.
> 
> The Ramallah Government for the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world _(Article 22 LoN Covenant)_.
> 
> ........View attachment 285081
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> What does all of that happy horseshit have to do with Israel attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff?
Click to expand...


That’s a slogan you dump into various threads but you’re never able to actually explain Israel attacking anyone or stealing anything.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I did  not even see a question except the one I answered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE QUESTION • P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Israel attacked from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered. Violation of Article 68, GCIV:  *See Posting #14437*:
> 
> *Nabi Saleh dedicates weekly demonstration to 16 year old ...*
> https://*nabisaleh*solidarity.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/*nabi*-*saleh*-dedicates-weekly...Jan 25, 2013 · 18 January 2013
> *Nabi Saleh* on Friday, 18 January dedicated its weekly demonstration against *Israel* occupation and apartheid to martyr Samir Awad from *Budrus*, the 16 year old boy killed by the IOF earlier in the week. *** Israeli Army Shoots Dead 16 Year Old Palestinian in *Budrus* by Popular Struggle Coordination Committee: 18 January…​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Israeli hooey, Batman.
> 
> You ducked the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *◈*   You cannot ask about an external attacks _(International Armed Conflict)_ if you cannot recognize the parameters of your own "State of Palestine.  _(You cannot ask about "Alpha" and *THEN* object to the answer relative to "true domain.")_
> 
> *◈* *IF* you are considering the entirety of the territory as the relevant domain, as in the territory formerly under the Palestine Order in Council, *THEN*, from that perspective, it internal security it becomes domestic criminal activity and not an "attack" from Bi'lin, Nabi Saleh, or Budrus, etc.
> 
> *◈ IF* you are applying the term perspective of "liberation" *THEN* you have to identify both the country establishing the occupation" and the territory to that which is "occupied."  IF you identify the State of Israel as the Occupying Power *THEN* the recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.
> 
> *◈ IF* you consider the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip as the State of Palestine, *THEN* the question becomes, when was that territory declared independent by the inhabitants?​
> The political-military organization (Pol-Mil) that was given to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people since 1974 _(Robat - League of Arab States)_ was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), headed by Yasser Arafat, at the time.  The PLO was a coalition of various anti-Israeli, nationalistic groups that were unified by their opposition to Israel and by their common aspirations for a Palestinian homeland. The various
> factions that comprise the PLO gave the liberation movement a shaky and tenuous reputation in stability because of continuing disputes over strategy and tactics to be used in seeking their common objectives.  They still argue about this today.  What is amazing is that the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department hold to the political stance that the "State of Palestine" is based on pre-June 4th 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital.
> 
> While the PLO came into existence in 1967 • 1968, it did not come to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people until 1974.  And the State of Israel already had control of entire West Bank, including Jerusalem for the previous seven years.  And, without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian People, was no universal "Arab Palestinian" people _(with the PLO as the sole legitimate representative)_ until 1974.  The previous sovereign of the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, was the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan which cut all ties with and abandon the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem in 1988.
> 
> The Ramallah Government for the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world _(Article 22 LoN Covenant)_.
> 
> ........View attachment 285081
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> What does all of that happy horseshit have to do with Israel attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff?
Click to expand...


Palestinians didn't own any stuff.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*IF* you had sincerely read it, you would *THEN* have understood that when the Arab Palestinians _(normally the protected persons)_ attack Israelis in the West Bank, Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians are acting as criminal activists in violation of International Humanitarian Law (IHL _as cited_). 

Article 51(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I and Article 13(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol II provides that Arab Palestinians "take a direct part in hostilities” _(involving acts of violence)_ loose their status as a "protected person." (_*Rule 6*. Civilians’ Loss of Protection from Attack_)



P F Tinmore said:


> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> What does all of that happy horseshit have to do with Israel attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff?


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis never loose their "Right to Self-Defense."  Arab Palestinians have the "Right" to exercise the Dispute Resolution Process _[Article XV • 1993 Binding Declaration of Principles (DoP)]_.  Arab Palestinians that threaten or attempt to use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations.   Violence must never be employed as a means of settling international disputes when a non-violent process is available.

The allegations that the Israelis are violating the DoP _("attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff")_ has not been tested through the Dispute Resolution process.  The Arab Palestinian jump right to the posture that _*Jihad and the armed resistance*_ is "the right and real method" for what they consider to be the Liberation of Palestine.  The Arab Palestinians intend to use all the political and diplomatic tools available to them in order to supplement the Liberation Movement.

What does Posting 14440 have to do with the inflamatory actions of the Arab Palestinians and the misrepresentation of the facts?  *EVERYTHING*

...........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *IF* you had sincerely read it, you would *THEN* have understood that when the Arab Palestinians _(normally the protected persons)_ attack Israelis in the West Bank, Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians are acting as criminal activists in violation of International Humanitarian Law (IHL _as cited_).
> 
> Article 51(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I and Article 13(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol II provides that Arab Palestinians "take a direct part in hostilities” _(involving acts of violence)_ loose their status as a "protected person." (_*Rule 6*. Civilians’ Loss of Protection from Attack_)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> What does all of that happy horseshit have to do with Israel attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis never loose their "Right to Self-Defense."  Arab Palestinians have the "Right" to exercise the Dispute Resolution Process _[Article XV • 1993 Binding Declaration of Principles (DoP)]_.  Arab Palestinians that threaten or attempt to use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations.   Violence must never be employed as a means of settling international disputes when a non-violent process is available.
> 
> The allegations that the Israelis are violating the DoP _("attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff")_ has not been tested through the Dispute Resolution process.  The Arab Palestinian jump right to the posture that _*Jihad and the armed resistance*_ is "the right and real method" for what they consider to be the Liberation of Palestine.  The Arab Palestinians intend to use all the political and diplomatic tools available to them in order to supplement the Liberation Movement.
> 
> What does Posting 14440 have to do with the inflamatory actions of the Arab Palestinians and the misrepresentation of the facts?  *EVERYTHING*
> 
> ...........View attachment 285179
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.

How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?

Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*IF* I understand you correctly in this question, *THEN* you are talking about _*(NOT an *_*"attack"*_* but rather)*_ a General Exceptions to the "*Knock-and-Announce*" Rule as an entry method.

◈  *Exigency:  *Exigent Circumstances or Emergency. (Case of Eminent Danger)

◈  *Permission:  *Execution of a "No-Knock" Warrant Granted by a Magistrate of Judge.

✦  Border Police, and Counterintelligence / Security Service (construed to be performing police type duties) may execute a "No Knock" entry *IF* doing so would create an *unreasonable risk * to their safety or to the safety of the building occupants.

✦  Border Police, and Counterintelligence / Security Service _*(construed to be performing police type duties)*_ may execute a "No Knock" entry *IF* doing so would give the suspects an opportunity:

○  For the potential felons to escape.

○  To destroy critical evidence,

○  For the "Knock and Announce" to be acknowledged by fire (Case of Eminent Danger)

*○  *Give time to established an armed defense to resist entry,  (Case of Eminent Danger)​


P F Tinmore said:


> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> 
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.


*(COMMENT)*

You are misrepresenting the facts.  You asked a very different question:



P F Tinmore said:


> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.



You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.

I want you to know that every day - somewhere in the US, a "No Knock" entry is affected.

...........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *IF* you had sincerely read it, you would *THEN* have understood that when the Arab Palestinians _(normally the protected persons)_ attack Israelis in the West Bank, Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians are acting as criminal activists in violation of International Humanitarian Law (IHL _as cited_).
> 
> Article 51(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I and Article 13(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol II provides that Arab Palestinians "take a direct part in hostilities” _(involving acts of violence)_ loose their status as a "protected person." (_*Rule 6*. Civilians’ Loss of Protection from Attack_)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> What does all of that happy horseshit have to do with Israel attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis never loose their "Right to Self-Defense."  Arab Palestinians have the "Right" to exercise the Dispute Resolution Process _[Article XV • 1993 Binding Declaration of Principles (DoP)]_.  Arab Palestinians that threaten or attempt to use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations.   Violence must never be employed as a means of settling international disputes when a non-violent process is available.
> 
> The allegations that the Israelis are violating the DoP _("attacking the Palestinians and stealing their stuff")_ has not been tested through the Dispute Resolution process.  The Arab Palestinian jump right to the posture that _*Jihad and the armed resistance*_ is "the right and real method" for what they consider to be the Liberation of Palestine.  The Arab Palestinians intend to use all the political and diplomatic tools available to them in order to supplement the Liberation Movement.
> 
> What does Posting 14440 have to do with the inflamatory actions of the Arab Palestinians and the misrepresentation of the facts?  *EVERYTHING*
> 
> ...........View attachment 285179
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> 
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.
Click to expand...

How many Arab-Moslem villages are located at the israeli border fence?


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinians riot on Gaza border; 48 said wounded*
*4,000 Palestinians take part in weekly demonstrations, with hundreds throwing rocks and explosives at IDF troops*

*Palestinians riot on Gaza border; 48 said wounded*

By TOI STAFF18 Oct 2019, 7:43 pm


Peaceful Arabs-Moslems in their peaceful villages living peacefully. 

I guess the isrseli border fence is to protect the peaceful Arabs-Moslems. 

That must be it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *IF* I understand you correctly in this question, *THEN* you are talking about _*(NOT an *_*"attack"*_* but rather)*_ a General Exceptions to the "*Knock-and-Announce*" Rule as an entry method.
> 
> ◈  *Exigency:  *Exigent Circumstances or Emergency. (Case of Eminent Danger)
> 
> ◈  *Permission:  *Execution of a "No-Knock" Warrant Granted by a Magistrate of Judge.
> 
> ✦  Border Police, and Counterintelligence / Security Service (construed to be performing police type duties) may execute a "No Knock" entry *IF* doing so would create an *unreasonable risk * to their safety or to the safety of the building occupants.
> 
> ✦  Border Police, and Counterintelligence / Security Service _*(construed to be performing police type duties)*_ may execute a "No Knock" entry *IF* doing so would give the suspects an opportunity:
> 
> ○  For the potential felons to escape.
> 
> ○  To destroy critical evidence,
> 
> ○  For the "Knock and Announce" to be acknowledged by fire (Case of Eminent Danger)
> 
> *○  *Give time to established an armed defense to resist entry,  (Case of Eminent Danger)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> 
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are misrepresenting the facts.  You asked a very different question:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.
> 
> I want you to know that every day - somewhere in the US, a "No Knock" entry is affected.
> 
> ...........View attachment 285195
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.


What is ambiguous? You have always danced around this question.


----------



## Ropey

The GCC is now in Gaza. Hamas is being 'reordered.'







It comes.  Why?

In Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Gaza, Iranian forces and terrorist proxies are attempting to surround Israel with increasingly advanced weaponry, preparing for the next large-scale conflict against the Jewish state.

When this is over, there will be very few militias *and no Sunni working with Shia... against Sunni*.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *IF* I understand you correctly in this question, *THEN* you are talking about _*(NOT an *_*"attack"*_* but rather)*_ a General Exceptions to the "*Knock-and-Announce*" Rule as an entry method.
> 
> ◈  *Exigency:  *Exigent Circumstances or Emergency. (Case of Eminent Danger)
> 
> ◈  *Permission:  *Execution of a "No-Knock" Warrant Granted by a Magistrate of Judge.
> 
> ✦  Border Police, and Counterintelligence / Security Service (construed to be performing police type duties) may execute a "No Knock" entry *IF* doing so would create an *unreasonable risk * to their safety or to the safety of the building occupants.
> 
> ✦  Border Police, and Counterintelligence / Security Service _*(construed to be performing police type duties)*_ may execute a "No Knock" entry *IF* doing so would give the suspects an opportunity:
> 
> ○  For the potential felons to escape.
> 
> ○  To destroy critical evidence,
> 
> ○  For the "Knock and Announce" to be acknowledged by fire (Case of Eminent Danger)
> 
> *○  *Give time to established an armed defense to resist entry,  (Case of Eminent Danger)​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> 
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are misrepresenting the facts.  You asked a very different question:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The most important part, Rocco, always goes right over your head.
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> Then you respond with a data dump of irrelevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.
> 
> I want you to know that every day - somewhere in the US, a "No Knock" entry is affected.
> 
> ...........View attachment 285195
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is ambiguous? You have always danced around this question.
Click to expand...



The above cut and paste is another of the tactics that does nothing to respond as a coherent post.


----------



## Hollie

A peaceful Pal’istanian with a knife.



Israeli forces fatally shoot Palestinian man at West Bank checkpoint

Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian man at a checkpoint near the occupied West Bank city of Tulkarem, the Palestinian news agency Wafa reported on Friday.

Citing the Palestinian Ministry of Health, the news agency said the man was in his mid-20s.

He has not yet been identified.








Israel's defence ministry said in a statement that Israeli forces opened fire after the Palestinian man charged the checkpoint wielding a knife.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Non-sense!  In every question you have asked, my response has always been with a straight-forward and honest answer.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.
> 
> 
> 
> What is ambiguous? You have always danced around this question.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

*IF* you ask a sound and valid question, I will *THEN* respond with a forthright and honest answer.

Be unambiguous with your question.

*◈  IF* you mean "arrest" or "search and seizure" incidents *THEN* say so...

*◈  IF* you have a question about anti-Occupation activities, insurgencies, or any asymmetric actions along or across the border, *THEN* say so.

*◈  IF* you have a question about the use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place, *THEN* say so.

*◈  IF* you have a question about Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons or Protected Persons under the geneva Convention, *THEN* say so.​
But don't play bait and switch, asking questions about "attacks" when you are asking questions about Article 43 public order and safety; and/or domestic law.

..........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Non-sense!  In every question you have asked, my response has always been with a straight-forward and honest answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a long history of asking ambiguous questions or changing the context _(as you have done here)_ after I have answered the question.
> 
> 
> 
> What is ambiguous? You have always danced around this question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you ask a sound and valid question, I will *THEN* respond with a forthright and honest answer.
> 
> Be unambiguous with your question.
> 
> *◈  IF* you mean "arrest" or "search and seizure" incidents *THEN* say so...
> 
> *◈  IF* you have a question about anti-Occupation activities, insurgencies, or any asymmetric actions along or across the border, *THEN* say so.
> 
> *◈  IF* you have a question about the use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place, *THEN* say so.
> 
> *◈  IF* you have a question about Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons or Protected Persons under the geneva Convention, *THEN* say so.​
> But don't play bait and switch, asking questions about "attacks" when you are asking questions about Article 43 public order and safety; and/or domestic law.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285215
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Still ducking the question, I see.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

State the question _(clear and concisely)_ that you think I did not answer?



P F Tinmore said:


> Still ducking the question, I see.



...........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> State the question _(clear and concisely)_ that you think I did not answer?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking the question, I see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...........View attachment 285220
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> State the question _(clear and concisely)_ that you think I did not answer?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking the question, I see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...........View attachment 285220
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
Click to expand...


When they're at home, they aren't attacking anyone.

Maybe they should stay home more?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> State the question _(clear and concisely)_ that you think I did not answer?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking the question, I see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...........View attachment 285220
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
Click to expand...

 It seems there are a lot of those peaceful Arab-Moslem villages adjacent to the Israeli border.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK They cannot.  What you mistake for an attacks are really contrued to be police functions.  You are misusing the word "attack."

v/r R



P F Tinmore said:


> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK.  That is a layman opinion.

They _(as Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ could also be Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters using the residents as a safehouse, or a base for any number of other criminal activities.

Again, you are misusing "attack" in this case.

v/r
R



Toddsterpatriot said:


> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?



When they're at home, they aren't attacking anyone.

Maybe they should stay home more?[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK.  That is a layman opinion.
> 
> They _(as Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ could also be Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters using the residents as a safehouse, or a base for any number of other criminal activities.
> 
> Again, you are misusing "attack" in this case.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When they're at home, they aren't attacking anyone.
> 
> Maybe they should stay home more?
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]
Holy speculation, Batman!

Did you see any of that in the video I posted?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK.  That is a layman opinion.
> 
> They _(as Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ could also be Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters using the residents as a safehouse, or a base for any number of other criminal activities.
> 
> Again, you are misusing "attack" in this case.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can the Palestinians "attack" anyone while at home in their own village?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When they're at home, they aren't attacking anyone.
> 
> Maybe they should stay home more?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Holy speculation, Batman!

Did you see any of that in the video I posted?[/QUOTE]

I only gave your Pally'wood Studios video 1 star.


----------



## Hollie

the Islamic terrorist leadership of Hamas is in a bit of a froth. An underling theme of the conference is the threat posed to the Gulf states by Iran. The Iranian Mullocrats must be furious and perhaps dictated a memo that their Hamas flunkies were required to issue.

The United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Oman are also expected to take part of the conference.  Apparently, the main agenda will be the “Iranian threat in the Persian Gulf”.

Ouchies!

That dreaded "Shia Crescent" is grinding away at the Arabs. So much so, they will grudgingly accept Israel's presence and while going unsaid, they will seek shelter and assistance from Israeli intel and military strength.


*Hamas condemns Israel's participation in security conference in Bahrain *
October 20, 2019

Hamas condemns Israel's participation in security conference in Bahrain - China.org.cn

GAZA, Oct. 20 (Xinhua) -- Islamic Hamas movement, ruler of the Palestinian Gaza Strip, condemned on Sunday Israel's participation in a security conference held in Bahrain.

"Those who normalize relations with Israel bear part of the responsibility for Israeli aggression against the Palestinian people," Hazem Qassem, Hamas spokesman, said in a statement.

All attempts to "integrate" Israel into the Arab region will fail, he added, noting Israel will always remain the "central enemy" of all Arab peoples.

A day earlier, Israeli media reported that Israel would send an official delegation to a maritime security conference in Bahrain on Sunday to discuss Iranian threats to naval security in the region.

Israeli Public Radio confirmed that the conference, which will be attended by dozens of countries, is an initiative backed by U.S. President Donald Trump.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The overall sentiment of Palestinians is that their government is corrupt. Of 1,200 Palestinians polled, 95.5 percent agreed that there was rampant corruption in the regime run by Mahmoud Abbas.

When it comes to humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority, transparency does not exist.

The result has become a wealthy Palestinian elite that builds exclusive neighborhoods around Ramallah, leaving thousands of shoddily constructed apartments without services for the rest of Palestinian society.

Yasser Arafat set the tone for the P.A. when he arrived in Gaza in 1994. Arafat took control of every contract and investment, using donor money to build a secret $1 billion portfolio, including investments in Coca-Cola, a Tunisian cellular phone company and venture-capital funds in the United States and the Cayman Islands.

(full article online)

The Palestinian Authority donor machine


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel's Kan network has an expose on how the Palestinian Authority is endangering their citizens' lives by forbidding their people to be treated in Israeli hospitals - but they allow their own relatives to go.

Earlier this year, Mahmoud Abbas claimed that the PA was paying Israeli hospitals too much to treat Palestinians, and that the Israeli hospitals were charging too much for their treatment. This charge was repeated earlier this week when Palestinian Prime Minister Mohamed Shtayyeh said this to Physicians for Human Rights.

In fact, Palestinians would be charged about 30% less than Israelis for similar procedures.

The hospital decision happened at the same time that Israel started to withhold tax revenues that were going to pay terrorists, so Abbas' decision in the end was petty and vindictive - and caused Palestinians to accept sub-par treatments.

The PA says it can send patients to Egypt and Jordan, and they are cheaper, but they simply aren't as good. Just last week a woman went to Jordan for treatment and returned in a coffin.

(full article online)

Abbas doesn't allow Palestinians to go to Israeli hospitals - unless they are his friends ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian refugees seeking asylum in Belgium (and all of Europe) are not seeking protection from Israel - but from Hamas.

 Adel Atieh, the deputy head of the Palestinian mission to the European Union, points out that eleven years ago, there were only 3,000 Palestinians in Belgium. Today, however, Atieh estimates that that there are around 10,000 Palestinian asylum seekers living there, with as many as 98 percent of them hailing from the Strip.

“Based on the argument that there are human rights violations under Hamas and that their security is under threat by the Hamas militia, Palestinians from the Strip traditionally had much higher chances to get asylum in Belgium than Palestinians from the West Bank,” says Atieh. “A lot of them came after the 2008-2009 and the 2014 wars,” he adds. We have noted that the only Palestinians who seek asylum worldwide are claiming persecution from Hamas in the past.

(full article online)

Palestinian asylum seekers in Europe are not fleeing Israel - they are fleeing Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Official Threatens to Obliterate all of Israel - Israel Unwired


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> The overall sentiment of Palestinians is that their government is corrupt. Of 1,200 Palestinians polled, 95.5 percent agreed that there was rampant corruption in the regime run by Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> When it comes to humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority, transparency does not exist.
> 
> The result has become a wealthy Palestinian elite that builds exclusive neighborhoods around Ramallah, leaving thousands of shoddily constructed apartments without services for the rest of Palestinian society.
> 
> Yasser Arafat set the tone for the P.A. when he arrived in Gaza in 1994. Arafat took control of every contract and investment, using donor money to build a secret $1 billion portfolio, including investments in Coca-Cola, a Tunisian cellular phone company and venture-capital funds in the United States and the Cayman Islands.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinian Authority donor machine



“Yasser Arafat set the tone for the P.A. ...”

It appears to me that Arafat set the model for the parade of Islamic terrorist dictators / crooks who would follow him. In both Hamas and the PA, there’s a long line of incredibly wealthy islamo-crats who made their fortunes in the footsteps of Yasser’s recipe for profiting from greed and corruption.


----------



## Hollie

Holy “Mo’ welfare money” Batman.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dozens of Palestinians have been “disappearing” in Saudi Arabia in recent months and are believed are being held in detention in the kingdom’s prisons, according to Palestinian sources and international human rights organizations.

The Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership in the West Bank, which regularly condemns Israel for arresting Palestinians suspected of involvement in terrorism and other anti-Israel activities, has been reluctant to speak out against the Saudi purge of Palestinians, ostensibly for security reasons, not to harm its relations with the kingdom.

The PA is not only keeping mum about the unprecedented Saudi crackdown, but it is also trying to prevent the families of the detainees from protesting in public. Last week, the PA’s Preventive Security Service summoned the family of Palestinian engineer Abdullah Odeh, being held in a Saudi prison, and warned them not to protest their son’s detention.

(full article online)

Why Are Palestinians ‘Disappearing’ in Saudi Arabia?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Dozens of Palestinians have been “disappearing” in Saudi Arabia in recent months and are believed are being held in detention in the kingdom’s prisons, according to Palestinian sources and international human rights organizations.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership in the West Bank, which regularly condemns Israel for arresting Palestinians suspected of involvement in terrorism and other anti-Israel activities, has been reluctant to speak out against the Saudi purge of Palestinians, ostensibly for security reasons, not to harm its relations with the kingdom.
> 
> The PA is not only keeping mum about the unprecedented Saudi crackdown, but it is also trying to prevent the families of the detainees from protesting in public. Last week, the PA’s Preventive Security Service summoned the family of Palestinian engineer Abdullah Odeh, being held in a Saudi prison, and warned them not to protest their son’s detention.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Why Are Palestinians ‘Disappearing’ in Saudi Arabia?



Remember when that gay Egyptian guy supported Saddam's invasion of Kuwait?

And then Kuwait gave 400,000 Palestinians the boot after we kicked Iraq's ass?

And then the GCC cut off support for the PLO?

That was awesome!!!


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Here I was thinking that The Islamo-Reconciliation™️ was going so well. I had visions of Hamas and Fatah taking walks in the park on a pastoral fall day in a show of caring and mutual respect.

On the other hand, we see the Ramallah contingent of Death Cultists lecturing Hamas on the virtues of security and public order. 






Palestinian Authority to block dozens of news sites affiliated with Hamas

The Palestinian Authority has decided Monday to block 59 Palestinian news sites in the West Bank, mainly those affiliated with Hamas and originating in the Gaza Strip. 


The Ramallah court made the decision based on the attorney general's demand that the continued publication of these sites constitutes a disturbance to security and public order and threatens public safety.


----------



## Hollie

I’m hoping these women are not going to be on the business end of a koranically correct beating, 



Palestine: No Liberation Without Free Women - International Viewpoint - online socialist magazine

Young Palestinian women activists mobilized around the TALIAAT movement to denounce all physical, psychological, economic and political violence under the slogan "no free country without women’s liberation" or "dignity, freedom, social justice".

According to official figures, nineteen Palestinian women have been victims of femicide since the beginning of the year. The actual figures are probably higher. Despite an amendment to article 99 of the Palestinian Criminal Code in 2018, which allows judges to reduce sentences for so-called "honour crimes", reports show that feminicide is on the rise in the West Bank, Gaza and the Palestinian community in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

I will be very surprised if any public protest gathers much momentum before Hamas begins making the more excitable instigators disappear in the night.




Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas

Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”



I'm thinking another slogan might work just as well:

"Qatari Suitcases full of Cash"


----------



## RoccoR

PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie,  et al,

Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*



Hollie said:


> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”


*(COMMENT)*

I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.

..........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285679
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.

No wonder they are protesting.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285679
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> No wonder they are protesting.
Click to expand...


*Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity*

Especially the rocket production and suicide bomb production.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285679
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> No wonder they are protesting.
Click to expand...

Just guessing, but when the various islamic terrorist franchises use raw materials and production capacity for the manufacture of offensive weapons and tunnels to wage war, Israel has had to take defensive measures. 

When the islamic terrorist wage gee-had, there will be consequences. You seem to believe that acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285679
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> No wonder they are protesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just guessing, but when the various islamic terrorist franchises use raw materials and production capacity for the manufacture of offensive weapons and tunnels to wage war, Israel has had to take defensive measures.
> 
> When the islamic terrorist wage gee-had, there will be consequences. You seem to believe that acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement.
Click to expand...

Like all of those ice cream tipped rockets.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285679
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


It is an interesting dynamic. Hamas does have a loyal following, enough to rouse the faithful to put their live at risk at the border riots. That's not surprising as their "summer gee-had camps" and UNRWA funded schools indoctrinate child from the earliest age as to the glory of suicide / mass murder.

Maybe.... just maybe, there are the beginnings of an awakening among a portion of the population where they begin to realize that their self-destruction as a means to finance the fortunes of the islamic terrorist leadership is a fool's errand. 

When working indoor plumbing is often unavailable and women are still subject to "honor" killings, maybe it will be the female population that behins to make small, incremental changes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I found this to be very interesting*!*
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans Plan to Emulate Lebanese Anti-Regime Rallies, Protest Against Hamas
> 
> Encouraged by the protests in Lebanon, groups in the Gaza Strip are working to launch protests against Hamas’ rule under the slogans “Enough! We were getting tired” and “civilian disobedience.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am surprised, given the number of citizens that supported the violent protests along the border with Israel.  Very interesting indeed.  If it brings around peace with Israel, along with a reduction in the risk, faced by investors, commercial ventures, and manufacturing, the Gaza Strip might just flourish.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285679
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> No wonder they are protesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just guessing, but when the various islamic terrorist franchises use raw materials and production capacity for the manufacture of offensive weapons and tunnels to wage war, Israel has had to take defensive measures.
> 
> When the islamic terrorist wage gee-had, there will be consequences. You seem to believe that acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like all of those ice cream tipped rockets.
Click to expand...


What's more important, flush toilets or gee-had?

I can predict the answer.


----------



## Hollie

Arabic press review: Palestinians 'tortured by foreigners' in Saudi Arabia, Hamas says


Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip Sami Abu Zuhri has told the Shehab News agency that Palestinian detainees in Saudi Arabia, including leaders of the movement, are being tortured by "foreign mercenaries".

"Unfortunately, the detainees are being harshly interrogated, and some of them are being tortured in various forms. They are being interrogated by foreign investigators of different nationalities," said Abu Zuhri.

He added that "this is shameful to Saudi Arabia", which recently arrested about 60 Palestinians residing in the kingdom, including Hamas representative Mohammed Saleh al-Khoudary and businessman Abu Obeida Agha, who was transferred to Dhahban Central Prison in Jeddah.




Just a guess, but I can't believe the Saudi's need foreign help with torture.

I can see the Saudi's doing whatever they think necessary when it comes to "bustin' heads" as a way to get intel on Iran and their involvement with Hamas and islamic gee-had in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

The "Court of Mahmoud" is coming down hard on Pal and Arabic websites. 

Apparently, the real contentious part among Pals is that no Joooooo networks were blocked. 

The Pal courts must have been infiltrated by Jew lawyers. 


Palestinian court blocks websites critical of PA

The Palestinian Authority has blocked 59 Palestinian and Arabic websites, including _Quds News Network_ sites, following a decision by a local Magistrates’ Court. Palestinians are angered at the decision which was revealed yesterday, as not a site single on the blocked list is Israeli.

"*not a site single on the blocked list is Israeli"*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The destruction of the Gaza Strip economy is actually an outcome of the armed response generated by Hostile Arab Palestinian activities threatening Israel.  Preceding (nearly) each significant response by an Israeli Armed Response was a provocation from one or more of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.

Israel has destroyed only what was necessary to limit Arab Palestinian provocateur's potential and capability.  Some strikes also serve to remind the people of the Gaza Strip that what devastation they feel can be reverse by their neutralization of the Hostile Arab Palestinians promoting the conflict and inciting violence.


*The Israelis do not just arbitarily strike the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip on a whim.  The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) strike targets that hold some military or political significants.*​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> No wonder they are protesting.


*(COMMENT)*

The Revenue the Gazans derive from donor contributions artificially improves the local economy _(in a form of transfer payments)_.    In the case of the Gaza Strip, a very significant measure of the personal income of Gazans is an outcome of the various Transfer Payments to social welfare program recipients through UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).  UNRWA is the primary provider and source of income for ≈ 1.3M Arab Palestinians out of a ≈ 1,836,713 total population _( ≈ July 2018)_ in the Gaza Strip across 300 installations*. * There is virtually no investment in the Gaza Strip due to the hostilities ignited by the people of the Gaza Strip.

While the West Bank has an unemployment rate holding at ≈ 18.1% _(maybe dropping slightly)_ the unemployment in Gaza Strip has reached ≈ 43+%.  The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) indicates that ≈ 504K+ people are participating in the labor force of the Gaza Strip.

..........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

*Pal'istan Caliphate Education - " I'M READY TO STAB A JEW "

*


----------



## Hollie

Oh, it's getting ugly. The competing mini-caliphates are in a real game of one-upsmanship. 

At some point, I can easily see a move by one side or the other perceived as an action that requires an armed response to protect turf or finances.




Gaza NGOs slam Palestinian Authority over frozen bank accounts

Dozens of NGOs in the besieged Gaza Strip are ringing the alarm over the freezing of their bank accounts following restrictions imposed by the Palestinian Authority (PA) Ministry of Interior based in the occupied West Bank.

The policy, in place since 2017, is now threatening numerous organisations with collapse, to the detriment of thousands of beneficiaries in the Palestinian enclave 12 years into a stringent Israel-imposed blockade.

NGOs have found themselves in the crossfire of the longstanding political divide between the two main Palestinian political factions Hamas - the de facto ruling party in Gaza - and Fatah, the leading party in the PA, ever since Hamas won 2006 legislative elections.

With some 80 percent of residents in Gaza dependent on humanitarian aid according to the United Nations, organisations worry that the ongoing political feud could have a serious impact on an already vulnerable population in the besieged enclave


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The destruction of the Gaza Strip economy is actually an outcome of the armed response generated by Hostile Arab Palestinian activities threatening Israel.  Preceding (nearly) each significant response by an Israeli Armed Response was a provocation from one or more of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> Israel has destroyed only what was necessary to limit Arab Palestinian provocateur's potential and capability.  Some strikes also serve to remind the people of the Gaza Strip that what devastation they feel can be reverse by their neutralization of the Hostile Arab Palestinians promoting the conflict and inciting violence.
> 
> 
> *The Israelis do not just arbitarily strike the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip on a whim.  The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) strike targets that hold some military or political significants.*​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> No wonder they are protesting.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Revenue the Gazans derive from donor contributions artificially improves the local economy _(in a form of transfer payments)_.    In the case of the Gaza Strip, a very significant measure of the personal income of Gazans is an outcome of the various Transfer Payments to social welfare program recipients through UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).  UNRWA is the primary provider and source of income for ≈ 1.3M Arab Palestinians out of a ≈ 1,836,713 total population _( ≈ July 2018)_ in the Gaza Strip across 300 installations*. * There is virtually no investment in the Gaza Strip due to the hostilities ignited by the people of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> While the West Bank has an unemployment rate holding at ≈ 18.1% _(maybe dropping slightly)_ the unemployment in Gaza Strip has reached ≈ 43+%.  The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) indicates that ≈ 504K+ people are participating in the labor force of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ..........View attachment 285708
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

Gaza in context.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.



Gaza has put most of her resources into belligerent acts against Israel.  Perhaps a better distribution of resources would be beneficial to the Gazan people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza has put most of her resources into belligerent acts against Israel.  Perhaps a better distribution of resources would be beneficial to the Gazan people.
Click to expand...

Do you mean like a cultural center? Oh wait!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza has put most of her resources into belligerent acts against Israel.  Perhaps a better distribution of resources would be beneficial to the Gazan people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like a cultural center? Oh wait!
Click to expand...



Well, specifically, a cultural center that is not, in point of fact, a cover for terrorist activity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has destroyed most of Gaza's production capacity and has limited exports down to almost nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza has put most of her resources into belligerent acts against Israel.  Perhaps a better distribution of resources would be beneficial to the Gazan people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like a cultural center? Oh wait!
Click to expand...


Another case of your Islamic terrorist heroes waging war from civilian areas. 


Palestinian Cultural Center Destroyed by Israeli Military in Recent Attacks

The IDF posted military-view video footage of the missile launches. They report, “The strike was carried out in response to the rockets Hamas fired at Israel, one of which was fired at the city of Be’er Sheva, which is more than 24 miles from Gaza.” Israel’s Housing Minister Yoav Gallant, an advisor on the Israeli security cabinet, saidyesterday, “Whatever is needed to protect our citizens and our soldiers will be done, no matter what the price will be in Gaza.”


----------



## Hollie

Yeah. Some mornings I wake up to the news and I have to remind myself it’s the year 2019 and not 1019 and I’m not living in some Islamist nightmare. 

“Honor” killings.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas bans 59 websites, including "Abbas doesn't represent me" FB page ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian journalists challenge court over blocked websites


----------



## Hollie

Ultimately, it’s money for weapons, ammunition and logistics that allows Islamic terrorists in Gaza and elsewhere to plan and execute attacks. 

Cutting off / curtailing the source of funds has a real impact on the ability of Islamic terrorists to attack. 




Hamas' cat and mouse game over terrorist funding


As the U.S. cracks down on funds channeled from Tehran to Gaza via New York, the terror group in charge of Gaza is using banks and non-digitial interaction to reduce its exposure, says IDF terror finance expert 

Hamas is trying to thwart efforts to crack down on the funding it receives to sponsor terrorist activity by spreading the money around and using regular bank transactions to hide in plain sight, says an IDF intelligence officer who monitors terrorist funding in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ultimately, it’s money for weapons, ammunition and logistics that allows Islamic terrorists in Gaza and elsewhere to plan and execute attacks.
> 
> Cutting off / curtailing the source of funds has a real impact on the ability of Islamic terrorists to attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas' cat and mouse game over terrorist funding
> 
> 
> As the U.S. cracks down on funds channeled from Tehran to Gaza via New York, the terror group in charge of Gaza is using banks and non-digitial interaction to reduce its exposure, says IDF terror finance expert
> 
> Hamas is trying to thwart efforts to crack down on the funding it receives to sponsor terrorist activity by spreading the money around and using regular bank transactions to hide in plain sight, says an IDF intelligence officer who monitors terrorist funding in the West Bank.


Ahhh, Israel's terrorist propaganda shtick.

The Hamas lady posts again.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, it’s money for weapons, ammunition and logistics that allows Islamic terrorists in Gaza and elsewhere to plan and execute attacks.
> 
> Cutting off / curtailing the source of funds has a real impact on the ability of Islamic terrorists to attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas' cat and mouse game over terrorist funding
> 
> 
> As the U.S. cracks down on funds channeled from Tehran to Gaza via New York, the terror group in charge of Gaza is using banks and non-digitial interaction to reduce its exposure, says IDF terror finance expert
> 
> Hamas is trying to thwart efforts to crack down on the funding it receives to sponsor terrorist activity by spreading the money around and using regular bank transactions to hide in plain sight, says an IDF intelligence officer who monitors terrorist funding in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's terrorist propaganda shtick.
> 
> The Hamas lady posts again.
Click to expand...


In other words, no riposte from you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, it’s money for weapons, ammunition and logistics that allows Islamic terrorists in Gaza and elsewhere to plan and execute attacks.
> 
> Cutting off / curtailing the source of funds has a real impact on the ability of Islamic terrorists to attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas' cat and mouse game over terrorist funding
> 
> 
> As the U.S. cracks down on funds channeled from Tehran to Gaza via New York, the terror group in charge of Gaza is using banks and non-digitial interaction to reduce its exposure, says IDF terror finance expert
> 
> Hamas is trying to thwart efforts to crack down on the funding it receives to sponsor terrorist activity by spreading the money around and using regular bank transactions to hide in plain sight, says an IDF intelligence officer who monitors terrorist funding in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's terrorist propaganda shtick.
> 
> The Hamas lady posts again.
Click to expand...


Hurt feelings?

You might want to increase your monthly Hamas welfare contribution. 

Treasury Targets Facilitators Moving Millions to HAMAS in Gaza | U.S. Department of the Treasury

*Treasury Targets Facilitators Moving Millions to HAMAS in Gaza*

August 29, 2019


----------



## Hollie

UN “criticism” will do nothing to stop Cult-like indoctrination that is pervasive in Islamic extremist societies. Islamic terrorist support organizations like UNRWA need to be held accountable for their actions. 



BREAKING: UN urges Palestinians to stop 'hate speech against Israelis that fuels antisemitism' - UN Watch

August 30, 2019 — In a rare UN criticism of the Palestinians, the world body’s racism watchdog urged Ramallah to combat “hate speech and incitement to violence,” saying it was “concerned” about statements by Palestinian public figures, politicians and media officials, as well as in school textbooks and curricula, pointing to “hate speech against Israelis” which it found “fuels hatred” and “may incite violence” and “antisemitism.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The teaching of hatred for Jews continues.  The teaching of having one's land stolen  - when it is not their ancient homeland and Arabia which continues to be taken over by the Saudis.......need I say more...... continues.  The teaching of desecrating a place which was NEVER important to Islam, continues.  More wasted lives by those who have had the misfortune to be born an Arab, a Muslim and living in Judea and Samaria ]

The suspected killers of an 18-year-old yeshiva student in the West Bank in August told investigators they did so due to “the suffering of the Palestinian people” and “the situation at Al-Aqsa [Mosque],” according to transcripts of their interrogation obtained by the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper.

Cousins Nasir and Qasseem al-Asafra were indicted earlier this month in the August 9 murder of Dvir Sorek near the Gush Etzion Junction. They were arrested in their homes in Beit Kahil, near Hebron, two days after the killing. Qasseem is believed to have driven the vehicle while Nasir stabbed Sorek to death.


“For months I’ve been going to pray at the mosque and hearing of the situation in al-Aqsa, that Muslim Palestinians are barred from entering and settlers are allowed,” Qasseem told investigators. “Also there is the construction in the settlements, and our land being raped by the Israeli occupier. I always wished to die as a martyr.”

(full article online)

‘Try to kidnap the settler. If you can’t, murder him’: Terrorists recount attack


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> UN “criticism” will do nothing to stop Cult-like indoctrination that is pervasive in Islamic extremist societies. Islamic terrorist support organizations like UNRWA need to be held accountable for their actions.
> 
> 
> 
> BREAKING: UN urges Palestinians to stop 'hate speech against Israelis that fuels antisemitism' - UN Watch
> 
> August 30, 2019 — In a rare UN criticism of the Palestinians, the world body’s racism watchdog urged Ramallah to combat “hate speech and incitement to violence,” saying it was “concerned” about statements by Palestinian public figures, politicians and media officials, as well as in school textbooks and curricula, pointing to “hate speech against Israelis” which it found “fuels hatred” and “may incite violence” and “antisemitism.”


UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization. It is hard to take anything they say seriously.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN “criticism” will do nothing to stop Cult-like indoctrination that is pervasive in Islamic extremist societies. Islamic terrorist support organizations like UNRWA need to be held accountable for their actions.
> 
> 
> 
> BREAKING: UN urges Palestinians to stop 'hate speech against Israelis that fuels antisemitism' - UN Watch
> 
> August 30, 2019 — In a rare UN criticism of the Palestinians, the world body’s racism watchdog urged Ramallah to combat “hate speech and incitement to violence,” saying it was “concerned” about statements by Palestinian public figures, politicians and media officials, as well as in school textbooks and curricula, pointing to “hate speech against Israelis” which it found “fuels hatred” and “may incite violence” and “antisemitism.”
> 
> 
> 
> UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization. It is hard to take anything they say seriously.
Click to expand...


It’s hard to take you seriously when you pretend that the Arabs-Moslems don’t have a campaign of propaganda funded largely by the UNRWA welfare fraud program.


----------



## Hollie

*New Palestinian Textbooks 'Indoctrinate for Death and Martyrdom,' Report Says *

The report, by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education, analyzed K-12 textbooks that were published in the past few years during the PA’s first curriculum revamp since 2000

New Palestinian textbooks 'indoctrinate for death and martyrdom,' report says

Sep 24, 20   953share on facebook





Screen shot of Palestinian text book taken from the ForwardScreen shot / The Forward
Textbooks created as part of the Palestinian Authority’s new K-12 educational curriculum “are teaching Palestinian children that there can be no compromise” and “indoctrinat[e] for death and martyrdom,” according to an analysis by a watchdog group.

The report, by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education, analyzed K-12 textbooks that were published in the past few years during the PA’s first curriculum revamp since 2000. It found that textbooks for seemingly innocuous subjects are heavily politicized with violent streaks.


----------



## Hollie

There have been many articles that delineate the theft and mismanagement of welfare money heaped on the Arab-Moslem criminal enterprises. The dollar value of the theft is staggering and just as bad is that western donors let it happen.



*The Palestinian Authority and its money*
A report on what happens to the funds that are collected through the Palestinian Authority Donor Machine.

The Palestinian Authority and its money

Arafat stole  $1 billion in tax revenue relayed by Israel for Palestinian workers. The money went to Arafat’s personal account in Israel’s Bank Leumi in Tel Aviv. 

$100,000 a month went to Arafat’s wife, Suha, living in Paris.   Arafat was estimated by U.S. investigators to be worth between $1 billion and $3 billion. [1] 

Within three years of the PA’s establishment, Palestinian auditors found that 40 percent of the PA budget, $326 million, was misappropriated, a figure that rose to $700 million a decade later. [2]

Not one Western government objected.  This set the tone for theft at all levels in the PA. PA officials paid themselves high salaries and  skimmed from others. [3]

*...*


*Enter Abbas*

Under Arafat’s successor, Mahmoud Abbas, nepotism reached every level of civil service. Officials, often related to Abbas, commanded salaries of $10,000 per month, more than 10 times that of ordinary civil servants, and opened secret accounts in Jordan with money  received in bribes. [4]

The difference between Abbas and Arafat: Instead of stealing from the PA, Abbas employed his two sons, Tareq and Yasser, to set up  businesses that dominate foreign investment, building a consortium called Falcon, which took over Palestinian commerce. [5]

Abbas  has pumped at  $890,000 into Falcon, with branches in Jordan and the United Arab Emirates, and  a monopoly on sale of U.S. cigarettes. 

Then there is Al Mashreq Insurance Co. operating  11 branches in the PA with a worth of $35 million, headed by Yasser Abbas. [6]


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Hamas is preemptively performing arrests as a way to avoid street protests and some ugly images of heavily armed islamic terrorists roughing up protesters. The wondrous islamic social order might look a bit tarnished with tires set aflame in the streets of Gaza'istan as opposed to be israeli border. 



Hamas arrests dozens of Palestinian activists in Gaza
Published:  10.24.19 

Hamas arrests dozens of Palestinian activists in Gaza

Hamas has in recent days arrested dozens of activists associated with left and center-leaning parties to crack down on the possibility of civil protests in the Gaza Strip, after mass anti-corruption protests erupted Lebanon.


----------



## Hollie

It's Friday and you know what that means:

*Happy-Fun Border Gee-had Riots.*

Today is extra special because it's also

*Suitcases Full of Qatari Cash Day. *

Good times. 

*Several thousand Palestinians protest on Gaza border; 16 injured in riots*

Several thousand Palestinians protest on Gaza border; 16 injured in riots

Weekly protests come despite visit by Qatari envoy to distribute another round of cash payments to 100,000 families in enclave


----------



## Hollie

It’s satisfying to know that the PA forces are enforcing the rule of dictatorial  brute force and intimidation law




Palestinian man beaten by PA forces after converting to Judaism

A 50-year old Palestinian resident of the West Bank was severely beaten by Palestinian Authority security forces after he converted to the Jewish faith , Ynet reported on Tuesday.  

The man was arrested two weeks ago and kept in custody after he was asked by his sons to meet them somewhere in the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Surf’s up in Gaza’istan.


----------



## Hollie

Like most things the Arabs-Moslems find a way to ruin.



Once a vibrant natural reserve, Gaza's coastal wetland is now a health hazard

By Amjad Yaghi






A pool of wastewater seen east of Wadi Gaza in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

Who needs clean water when you have the gee-had?






FILE Photo: Children cross through sewage water in Mighraqa neighborhood on the outskirts of Gaza City


----------



## Hollie

Lots of Islamic terrorist gee-had welfare dollars for the bank accounts of Hamas leaders. Not so much for cleanup after the wars they start.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is Husam Zomlot, the PLO representative in the UK (who calls himself the "Ambassador of Palestine at the UK,") discussing how the Palestinians never wanted a two state solution next to a Jewish state.

Two states, he says, was merely a concession to the international community, but it is not a Palestinian desire. The entire land is solely theirs, and Jews have no rights there.

(full article online)

PLO diplomat admits, in English, that Palestinians never wanted to live side by side with Israel (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Here is Husam Zomlot, the PLO representative in the UK (who calls himself the "Ambassador of Palestine at the UK,") discussing how the Palestinians never wanted a two state solution next to a Jewish state.
> 
> Two states, he says, was merely a concession to the international community, but it is not a Palestinian desire. The entire land is solely theirs, and Jews have no rights there.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO diplomat admits, in English, that Palestinians never wanted to live side by side with Israel (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


The two state solution has always been a foreign imposition.

Solution? What problem was it supposed to resolve?


----------



## Hollie

The highest ideals of Arab-Moslem manhood.


----------



## member

Sixties Fan said:


> Here is Husam Zomlot, the PLO representative in the UK (who calls himself the "Ambassador of Palestine at the UK,") discussing how the Palestinians never wanted a two state solution next to a Jewish state.
> 
> Two states, he says, was merely a concession to the international community, but it is not a Palestinian desire. The entire land is solely theirs, and Jews have no rights there.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO diplomat admits, in English, that Palestinians never wanted to live side by side with Israel (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





*“Two states he says was 

 merely a concession to the international community........




 



*
*. . .but it is not a *

* Palestinian desire.*




_*The entire land is solely theirs, *__*

*_* ...and Jews have no  *_*rights there. *_*(*

*)*.





Surprise! (this is how 'they' felt all along..).


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Husam Zomlot, the PLO representative in the UK (who calls himself the "Ambassador of Palestine at the UK,") discussing how the Palestinians never wanted a two state solution next to a Jewish state.
> 
> Two states, he says, was merely a concession to the international community, but it is not a Palestinian desire. The entire land is solely theirs, and Jews have no rights there.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO diplomat admits, in English, that Palestinians never wanted to live side by side with Israel (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The two state solution has always been a foreign imposition.
> 
> Solution? What problem was it supposed to resolve?
Click to expand...


*Solution? What problem was it supposed to resolve? *

Living near Muslims.
No one should have to do that.


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely people those Arabs-Moslems. Sending children to stoke acts of war. 



*Gaza Strip: Israeli army injures 77 Palestinians*

October 25, 2019 at 8:56 pm


----------



## Hollie

A Death Cult celebration.



"Family of Female Palestinian Suicide Bomber Hanadi Jaradat: Hanadi’s Father Handed out Sweets in Celebration of Her Martyrdom, Wanted Congratulations Instead of Condolences" 

_On October 8, 2019, Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Palestine – Islamic Jihad) aired a report about Hanadi Jaradat, a Palestinian woman from Jenin who carried out a suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa on October 4, 2003. Hanadi’s mother, who was interviewed in the report, praised Allah for having given Hanadi what she had asked for, and Hanadi’s brother said that his father had handed out sweets upon hearing about the operation and wanted people to give him congratulations instead of condolences._


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA official compares Israel and breast cancer | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians™️


The Richest Terror Organizations in the World


----------



## Hollie

Mohammed’s desire for Jew killing was for him, superseded by the Israeli desire to prevent him from doing so. 

Poor, Mohammed. 


Palestinians in Gaza Are Dying  for a Photo Op

“We are excited to storm and get inside,” a 23-year-old Gazan named Mohammed Mansoura, toldthe _Washington Post _yesterday_. “_When asked what he would do inside Israel,” the newspaper reported, “he said, ‘Whatever is possible, to kill, throw stones.'”


----------



## Hollie

*Young Palestinians graduate from Hamas summer camp*



Thousands of young Palestinians joined Hamas' military-style summer camp during school holidays in the Gaza Strip.



Some of the “graduates” may already be dead as a result of being groomed as a disposable commodity for the gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

The "West Bank headquarters" of the Hamas terrorist organization in the Rimal neighborhood in Gaza (photo credit: IDF SPOKESPERSON'S UNIT)
The Israeli airstrikes came in response to two rockets that were fired towards Tel Aviv from Gaza.

The IDF has released footage of some of the targets it hit in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip in the early Friday morning hours as a result of two rockets being launched at the Tel Aviv area earlier that night. 





Has Iran written a welfare check to pay for the damages?


----------



## Hollie

Think "Peace Partners" when you formulate policies that involve living next to islamic terrorist enclaves.   

"_Normalization is a crime against Islam_"

Maybe even a _Crime against Koranity_



*Hamas MP: Normalization is a crime against Islam*
Hamas official calls on Muslims around the world to fight normalization with Israel.

Dalit Halevi, 28/10/19 05:00
Hamas MP: Normalization is a crime against Islam


----------



## Hollie

Even by the usual standards of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult, this one is especially vile. 



*Child abuse: Kids taught to offer their "blood" on children's TV programs*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 28, 2019


----------



## Hollie

There’s something about Arabs-Moslems and abusing female children.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> A Death Cult celebration.
> 
> 
> 
> "Family of Female Palestinian Suicide Bomber Hanadi Jaradat: Hanadi’s Father Handed out Sweets in Celebration of Her Martyrdom, Wanted Congratulations Instead of Condolences"
> 
> _On October 8, 2019, Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Palestine – Islamic Jihad) aired a report about Hanadi Jaradat, a Palestinian woman from Jenin who carried out a suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa on October 4, 2003. Hanadi’s mother, who was interviewed in the report, praised Allah for having given Hanadi what she had asked for, and Hanadi’s brother said that his father had handed out sweets upon hearing about the operation and wanted people to give him congratulations instead of condolences._














​



​




*"Family of Female Palestinian Suicide Bomber* 

 *Hanadi Jaradat:*




*“Hanadi’s Father. . .* 

 



*. . .Handed out Sweets* *in Celebration* 

 *of Her Martyrdom wanted* 

 *Congratulations Instead of* *Condolences.” *

 



what a sick *family* 

 "*Culture*."


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Surf’s up in Gaza’istan.



they're busy with other projects, 

 and.... daily activities....


----------



## Hollie

Uh oh. Those crafty Jews are seeking out collaborators.

The islamic terrorist leadership must be spending a lot of time thinking that Israel may deliver a very generous Hellfire Missile Early Retirement Package.


*Hamas signals alarm on Israeli efforts to recruit collaborators*

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — A calm has descended over Gaza in recent months with no military confrontations between Palestinian armed factions and Israel following agreement on Egyptian-mediated understandings in May to ease the pressure of the blockade on the enclave. That said, it appears the factions and Israel are engaged in another type of war. The Hamas-run Interior Ministry in Gaza on Oct. 9 posted two audio recordings on its website in connection with accusing Israel of using new tools — an apparent reference to a disinformation and intelligence-gathering campaign waged through social media — to entice or entrap residents into collaborating through espionage and assisting in targeting faction leaders for assassination.


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in ummah’istan


----------



## Bo Didleysquat

Art__Allm said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
Click to expand...

 Israel is a military dictatorship that controls via violence and oppression a majority of the people living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, denying them basic human rights because they are not Jewish.  The US supports 73% of the world’s dictatorships, so there is nothing at all odd about our support for Israel’s apartheid; we supported South Africa’s as well.  And now, Israel is helping us move toward a privatized police state which surveils its own citizenry.

*THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”*

The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”


Should go nicely with our militarized white nationalist police force.  Our future is quietly being put into place while we quibble over something tweeterpeterhead said?  Yeah, we’re truly such an exceptional people ain’t we.



THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”
The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”


----------



## rylah

Bo Didleysquat said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is a military dictatorship that controls via violence and oppression a majority of the people living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, denying them basic human rights because they are not Jewish.  The US supports 73% of the world’s dictatorships, so there is nothing at all odd about our support for Israel’s apartheid; we supported South Africa’s as well.  And now, Israel is helping us move toward a privatized police state which surveils its own citizenry.
> 
> *THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”*
> 
> The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”
> 
> 
> Should go nicely with our militarized white nationalist police force.  Our future is quietly being put into place while we quibble over something tweeterpeterhead said?  Yeah, we’re truly such an exceptional people ain’t we.
> 
> 
> 
> THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”
> The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”
Click to expand...


didley doodley cow dung... and You've realized all this from a single leftard regressive link,
or just channeled some high spirits?

So the US decided to put surveillance tower made in Israel, and You think it's a reason for a party?
What if the tower was made in Britain...or Zimbabwe for that matter, would you still party on?

And I'm sorry to ruin that funky groove, no apartheid (if you even know what that means),
Arabs in Israel enjoy the most equality, freedom and highest quality of life than anywhere in the entire middle east. Same goes with majority claim -majority population are Jews.

And again no, the CCTV cameras came to Israel YEARS after it became a common thing in the US.
And while it may be true for the US, there's virtually no private police in Israel.

So again if You're pissed because the US is using Israeli technology, then I suggest You just throw away You own comp., cellphone, flashdrives and pretty much most of Your home stuff, because there's an Israeli invention in most of them, and instead go live in some cave. But if You're merely pissed at the decisions of the US, then...well it's not Israel's problem, go deal with your national domestic issues without pointing fingers at others for things that of Your own responsibility.

Sorry to ruin it for ya didley, no party this time


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Bo Didleysquat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is a military dictatorship that controls via violence and oppression a majority of the people living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, denying them basic human rights because they are not Jewish.  The US supports 73% of the world’s dictatorships, so there is nothing at all odd about our support for Israel’s apartheid; we supported South Africa’s as well.  And now, Israel is helping us move toward a privatized police state which surveils its own citizenry.
> 
> *THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”*
> 
> The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”
> 
> 
> Should go nicely with our militarized white nationalist police force.  Our future is quietly being put into place while we quibble over something tweeterpeterhead said?  Yeah, we’re truly such an exceptional people ain’t we.
> 
> 
> 
> THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”
> The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> didley doodley cow dung... and You've realized all this from a single leftard regressive link,
> or just channeled some high spirits?
> 
> So the US decided to put surveillance tower made in Israel, and You think it's a reason for a party?
> What if the tower was made in Britain...or Zimbabwe for that matter, would you still party on?
> 
> And I'm sorry to ruin that funky groove, no apartheid (if you even know what that means),
> Arabs in Israel enjoy the most equality, freedom and highest quality of life than anywhere in the entire middle east. Same goes with majority claim -majority population are Jews.
> 
> And again no, the CCTV cameras came to Israel YEARS after it became a common thing in the US.
> And while it may be true for the US, there's virtually no private police in Israel.
> 
> So again if You're pissed because the US is using Israeli technology, then I suggest You just throw away You own comp., cellphone, flashdrives and pretty much most of Your home stuff, because there's an Israeli invention in most of them, and instead go live in some cave. But if You're merely pissed at the decisions of the US, then...well it's not Israel's problem, go deal with your national domestic issues without pointing fingers at others for things that of Your own responsibility.
> 
> Sorry to ruin it for ya didley, no party this time
Click to expand...


For example: 

 How could Stephen Hawking have boycotted Israel when it made the microchip that enabled  him to talk?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bo Didleysquat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them? Are they all mad dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.
> 
> For example, the soviet regime collapsed, but they did not take the entire world with them, like the Zionists are threatening.
> 
> Countries that signed the NPT agreed not to threaten other countries with their WMD.
> 
> What to Israel, this country did not sign the NPT, speak Israel is a nuclear rogue state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is a military dictatorship that controls via violence and oppression a majority of the people living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, denying them basic human rights because they are not Jewish.  The US supports 73% of the world’s dictatorships, so there is nothing at all odd about our support for Israel’s apartheid; we supported South Africa’s as well.  And now, Israel is helping us move toward a privatized police state which surveils its own citizenry.
> 
> *THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”*
> 
> The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”
> 
> 
> Should go nicely with our militarized white nationalist police force.  Our future is quietly being put into place while we quibble over something tweeterpeterhead said?  Yeah, we’re truly such an exceptional people ain’t we.
> 
> 
> 
> THE U.S. BORDER PATROL AND AN ISRAELI MILITARY CONTRACTOR ARE PUTTING A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION UNDER “PERSISTENT SURVEILLANCE”
> The U.S. Border Patrol and an Israeli Military Contractor Are Putting a Native American Reservation Under “Persistent Surveillance”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> didley doodley cow dung... and You've realized all this from a single leftard regressive link,
> or just channeled some high spirits?
> 
> So the US decided to put surveillance tower made in Israel, and You think it's a reason for a party?
> What if the tower was made in Britain...or Zimbabwe for that matter, would you still party on?
> 
> And I'm sorry to ruin that funky groove, no apartheid (if you even know what that means),
> Arabs in Israel enjoy the most equality, freedom and highest quality of life than anywhere in the entire middle east. Same goes with majority claim -majority population are Jews.
> 
> And again no, the CCTV cameras came to Israel YEARS after it became a common thing in the US.
> And while it may be true for the US, there's virtually no private police in Israel.
> 
> So again if You're pissed because the US is using Israeli technology, then I suggest You just throw away You own comp., cellphone, flashdrives and pretty much most of Your home stuff, because there's an Israeli invention in most of them, and instead go live in some cave. But if You're merely pissed at the decisions of the US, then...well it's not Israel's problem, go deal with your national domestic issues without pointing fingers at others for things that of Your own responsibility.
> 
> Sorry to ruin it for ya didley, no party this time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For example:
> 
> How could Stephen Hawking have boycotted Israel when it made the microchip that enabled  him to talk?
Click to expand...


Yes, he could probably just wait for a black hole to create that for him, in a completely random spontaneous manner...


----------



## Hollie

They're just psychopaths.



Palestinian terrorist is like Jesus, according to official PA daily | PMW Analysis
*Palestinian terrorist is like Jesus, according to official PA daily*
Itamar Marcus  | Oct 29, 2019


----------



## TNHarley

Couldn't someone have just said the palis are terrorists and this thread be over?


----------



## Hollie

Another goofy Islamic terrorist promo for cheap threats. 

Apparently the Islamic terrorists believe they have an unlimited supply of vacant-minded Hamas Islamic Terrorist Summer Camp graduates to throw on the gee-had bonfire.


*Fatah on Facebook: "We will defend our holy sites with our blood"*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 30, 2019


----------



## P F Tinmore

What are real motives for PA government visit to Egypt?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What are real motives for PA government visit to Egypt?



Begging for welfare money?


----------



## Hollie

Yes. Shocking. A politico-religious ideology with an endemic, 1400 years history of virulent Jew hatreds is still exporting those hatreds.



A report released Wednesday made the case that a pro-Palestinian student group at many colleges, National Students for Justice in Palestine (NSJP), “is a main driver of Jew-hatred on campus,” citing dozens of examples of alleged anti-Semitism involving the group’s members. 

The Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy (ISGAP) released the 96-page report titled “National Students for Justice in Palestine (NSJP) and the Promotion of Hate and Anti-Semitism on the University Campus: The Threat to Academic Freedom” ahead of NSJP’s conference at the University of Minnesota planned for this weekend. According to the authors of the report, NSJP has promoted anti-Semitic rhetoric and has been associated with “violence and terror ideologically and politically.”


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult Mother of the Year nominee.

A "symbol for Death Cult Mothers" 


PA official praises terror mom with imprisoned sons who murdered at least 10 | PMW Translations
Palestinian PM sees mother of 6 terrorist murderers as role model

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 31, 2019

*Palestinian PM praises mother of 6 terrorist murderers as role model:
She is "a school for patience... 
we learn perseverance and resolve from her"*

*Ramallah Governor lauds terror mom as "symbol for Palestinian women" *


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> What are real motives for PA government visit to Egypt?













​












​





















​







​


​





























​







psssspssp -- _fahgetaboutit my frrrriend?_​





​


----------



## Hollie

It may be that the Iranian Mullocrats ordered their Sunni stooges in Hamas or Islamics gee-had to earn their welfare money.  


*IDF Attacks Hamas Military Posts in Gaza*

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/idf/idf-attacks-hamas-military-posts-in-gaza/2019/10/31/

 October 31, 2019

Israeli tanks and aircraft attacked Hamas military posts in Gaza late Thursday night in response to a rocket attack fired from the enclave at southern Israel at around 8:30 pm. One rocket landed in an open area. There was no property damage and no one was injured.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> It may be that the Iranian Mullocrats ordered their Sunni stooges in Hamas or Islamics gee-had to earn their welfare money.
> 
> 
> *IDF Attacks Hamas Military Posts in Gaza*
> 
> IDF Attacks Hamas Military Posts in Gaza
> 
> October 31, 2019
> 
> Israeli tanks and aircraft attacked Hamas military posts in Gaza late Thursday night in response to a rocket attack fired from the enclave at southern Israel at around 8:30 pm. One rocket landed in an open area. There was no property damage and no one was injured.





*"IDF Attacks Hamas Military Posts in Gaza.."*

oh no............if they did some REAL attacking - [_i.m.o_.] the whole place would wind up like.... Abu Al Big Daddy's househole_............_




​








DING-DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD---WHICH OLD WITCH---THE WICKED WITCH…. DING-DONG THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD!!!
Wake up you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed……LaLaLa…..
THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD !


​






​



​










​


----------



## Hollie

*Hopelessness in the occupied Palestinian territories*

*Hopelessness in the occupied Palestinian territories*

Palestinians can't continue to live like this. We need to rise and act before we fall deeper into the abyss.


Shed a tear for those "Poor, oppressed Arabs-Moslems"






House of Palestinian businessman Mohamed Abdel-Hadi


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> *Hopelessness in the occupied Palestinian territories*
> 
> *Hopelessness in the occupied Palestinian territories*
> 
> Palestinians can't continue to live like this. We need to rise and act before we fall deeper into the abyss.
> 
> 
> Shed a tear for those "Poor, oppressed Arabs-Moslems"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> House of Palestinian businessman Mohamed Abdel-Hadi




I've seen such mansions, whilst  driving by the hills of Nazareth.


----------



## Mindful

I and many others have posted this stuff before.

I don't know why I bother.


See old maps of Palestine and Palestina that show the Biblical division of the so called West Bank.

In recent history, the area called Palestine includes the territories of the present day Israel and Jordan (see map above. For earlier history of the term see article). From 1517 to 1917 most of this area remained under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Empire was dissolved at the end of World War I. Its successor, modern republic of Turkey, transferred Palestine to British Empire control under the Lausanne agreement that followed WW I.

In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.

The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians". 

It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.

Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.

Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that  Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).

All attempts to claim Arab sovereignty over Israel of today, should be seen with their real intention: The destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and the only bulwark of the Judeo-Christian Western civilization in the Middle East.


History of Palestine and Palestinians


----------



## Hollie

More Islamic terrorist attacks as the Israeli defense systems are working as needed. 

Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable. 


Rocket fired from Gaza hits home in Israel as Iron Dome intercepts 8 others


----------



## Hollie

Was anyone really expecting an Islamic terrorist franchise to respect enterprises such as a free press or freedom of expression?

Islamiist sharia is totalitarianism essentially void of the values most of us take for granted. 



Palestinian journalist Bassam Moheisen detained by Hamas forces in Gaza since October 23

“Hamas authorities in Gaza have again demonstrated how low press freedom ranks in their priorities,” said CPJ Middle East and North Africa Representative Ignacio Miguel Delgado. “Hamas forces must immediately release Bassem Moheisen and allow journalists to do their jobs freely and without fear of reprisal.”


----------



## Hollie

Another “proportional” (tepid) response from Israel following attacks from the Islamic terrorists in the “country of Pal’istan”, which as we know, was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne. 





Gaza Barrage: IDF Strikes Hamas Targets After 10 Rockets Launched at Israel, Gaza Ministry Reports 1 Dead

Gaza barrage: IDF strikes Hamas targets after 10 rockets launched at Israel, Gaza ministry reports 1 dead

The Israeli army struck a wide range of Hamas targets throughout the Strip overnight Friday after ten rockets were launched at Israel on Friday evening, marking the second such attack in two days. The Gaza Health Ministry reported one dead in the strikes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."  



Hollie said:


> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.


*(COMMENT)*

In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.

*◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."

*◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?  


"(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.

The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
........... 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.
> *◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."
> 
> *◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
> The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.
> 
> The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
> ...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."


What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.
> *◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."
> 
> *◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
> The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.
> 
> The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
> ...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
Click to expand...


*Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. *

The Palestinian plan to attack from civilian areas has been very successful.
Hiding behind women and children, Palestinian strategy for decades.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.
> *◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."
> 
> *◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
> The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.
> 
> The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
> ...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
Click to expand...


You obviously missed it but Israel was dealing with an Islamic terrorist problem during the latest acts of war perpetrated by the “country of Pal’istan”, which, as we know, was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.
> *◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."
> 
> *◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
> The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.
> 
> The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
> ...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. *
> 
> The Palestinian plan to attack from civilian areas has been very successful.
> Hiding behind women and children, Palestinian strategy for decades.
Click to expand...

Cool Israeli talking points.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.
> *◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."
> 
> *◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
> The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.
> 
> The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
> ...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. *
> 
> The Palestinian plan to attack from civilian areas has been very successful.
> Hiding behind women and children, Palestinian strategy for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


I know, to Pallies, the truth is an Israeli talking point.
Pallie cowards never hide behind women and children.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This is a very difficult question, not because it is complex, but because most participants in the discussion have very little concept of what it means in terms of "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we wait for the Israeli proportional response as opposed to a punishing beatdown making Islamic terrorist attacks untenable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In any military response to ats of aggression, there are a couple of aspects to be nailed down.  And, there are a couple of aspects that need to be immediately dispelled.
> *◈  DISPELL:*  Often, in the interpretation of the concept "Proportionality in an Attack" (Rule 14 Customary and IHL), many attempt to reduce it to something along the lines of an "equality."  That is to say, they think that the appropriate proportional response in the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) throwing a rock is that the Israelis should just throw a rock back.  (WRONG)  Or, in the case of the HoAP throwing launching a Qassam Rocket _(30-50kg total weight • 5-10kg Warhead)_ is to return in counterfire of 10kg warhead.  (ALSO WRONG).  The problem with this interpretation _(exact eqivalence)_ is that it ensures the "conflict will never end."
> 
> *◈  PROPER CONTEXT:*  The key to a proportional response is in the question:  What is necessary response to attain a "concrete and direct military advantage" (Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I) that results in the prevention of further attacks?
> 
> 
> "(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."​
> The idea is based on restoring the International Objective:  "international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the *prevention and removal of threats to the peace*."  (Chapter I • Article 1(1) Purpose of the United Nations)  This is the ultimate objective in any response to an attack by the HoAP.
> 
> The fact that the conflict has lasted so long, suggest that the proportional response was insufficient to achieve the International Purpose in the "prevention and removal of threats to the peace." _(Silence the Guns)_
> ...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


While I acknowledge my armchair quarterbacking, I believe an objective view of the situation identifies that devcades of “proportional responses” have only emboldened the Islamic terrorists. Just months ago, 700 rockets rained down on Israel from Gaza. I must think the Islamic terrorist groups realized that even an attack of that magnitude will only cost some buildings and some sacrificial civilians. That’s a cost the Islamic terrorist groups are willing to bear. The PA and leaders in Gaza mold entire generations with praise of suicide bombers/mass murderers, grooming women and children who have been recruited and sent to their deaths with the purpose of murdering Israelis.

Israel withdrew from Gaza, and it became a terrorist staging ground for carrying out attacks against Israel and governed by a militant group that calls for Israel's destruction.
Eight years, thousands of rockets rained upon Israel from Hamas--and the world did nothing.
And when Israel finally said "enough" and fought back, as any nation would do to protect her citizens, Israel was condemned.

Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon (which it again entered to stop attacks against her citizens) and the UN promised to ensure Hezbollah would not rearm. As in 1987, the UN broke its trust, and Hezbollah is now rearmed now with missiles that can strike Tel Aviv.

Iran continues to call for the destruction of "the Zionist regime" while enriching uranium for its nuclear program (aka "the Allah bomb"), and the world does nothing. After 50 years of wars, attacks, suicide bombings, Arab anti-Semitic media, Israel’s very existence still faces threats from Islamic terrorist States and their proxies. And I can only assume that for some, self-denial and scapegoating is easier, rather than acknowledging the major problem in Islam and the extensive world terrorism performed by Moslems and Moslem intolerance that are so frequently in the headlines. 

This, in light of the fight for Israeli Independence when the world stood by and watched as 5 Arab armies acted to "push the Jews into the Sea". For swaths of the Islamic Middle East, that goal has not faded.

And "Israeli _Apatheid_ Week" only continues the insanity of the Islamism.

At the end of WW2, there was no question as to who won / who lost and who would set the terms of peace. I’m afraid that the endless allowance by Israel for the constant attacks againt its citizens will only escalate with the presence of Iranian cash and ideological goals in Gaza. I see nothing that will change Arab-Moslem attitudes toward Israel and I see nothing that will prevent the Islamic terrorist attacks from Gaza and the West Bank without a concerted effort on the part of Israel to systematically eliminate the people who organize and plan the attacks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands.



That simply isn’t true. 

Your pointless propaganda and nonsense claims are intended to impress who?


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Hamas and Islamic gee-had are a bit miffed that Israel responded to Islamic terrorist attacks with retaliatory strikes. 

Apparently, Israel was “escalating” after delivering some high explosive Islamic terrorist behavior modification following Islamic terrorist attacks. 

I think the _Islamist Entity_™️ could use some new slogans. 

Hamas, Islamic Jihad warn Israel after Gaza strikes

The Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror organizations on Saturday warned Israel following airstrikes in the Gaza Strip in response to rocket fire at southern Israeli communities.

Hamas spokesman called the airstrikes a “dangerous escalation” and said the “Zionist enemy bears responsibility for its consequences and ramifications.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

A year ago, the PLO chairman Mahmoud Abbas dissolved the Palestinian Legislative Council - against Palestinian law - in his never ending effort to ensure his power is as complete and unquestioned as possible.

The PLC was an elected body, and in 2006 most Palestinians voted for Hamas members in the PLC.

The PLC, however, had not met since that election. Abbas made sure of that. So for 12 years it did literally nothing.

But when Abbas dissolved it, it triggered one other event: the salaries that the PLC members received were cut.

So now in Hamas media there is a sob story about how distinguished members of Hamas who have been spending the past decade plus getting full salaries for doing literally nothing are now forced to find work!

Mahmoud al-Khatib, a member of the Legislative Council from Bethlehem, had to open a falafel shop.

Al-Khatib revealed other sad stories of people who suddenly lost their incomes for watching TV all day. One was forced to sell some of his land. Another resorted to selling eggs.

(full article online)

A small anecdote of dysfunction from the Palestinian Authority ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.



Holy missing the point(s), Batman.  

Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.

1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.  
4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.

So, to answer your post.

1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.  

2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.  

3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?

4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.


----------



## watchingfromafar

*These are the Palestinian children Israel killed in 2017*

10 January 2018
These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2017.

Fourteen Palestinian boys and girls under the age of 18 were shot dead by Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the year.

There were 21 fewer children killed than in 2016, which was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the occupied West Bank in the past decade.

In addition to those 14 shot and killed during 2017, a child died of wounds sustained in an Israeli drone strike years earlier.

Another was killed by Israeli ordnance while grazing livestock. A baby living in temporary shelter, his family homeless as a result of Israeli bombing, died of cold exposure.

Palestinian children also died because they were unable to secure permits to leave via the Israeli-controlled Erez checkpoint for medical treatment unavailable in the besieged Gaza Strip.

Emergency room doctors were unable to resuscitate a seriously ill 9-year-old girl in the West Bank after Israeli soldiers denied her family passage at a checkpoint; a trip that normally would take 15 minutes took her family 90 minutes after they were forced to detour and go through a different checkpoint.

No Israeli children were killed by Palestinians during the year. An Israeli woman wounded during a bus stop bombing in 2011, when she was 14, and who had never regained consciousness, died of her injures in 2017.

These are the Palestinian children Israel killed in 2017

the truth will set you free
murdering children is what the IDF does best; 
-


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> *These are the Palestinian children Israel killed in 2017*
> 
> 10 January 2018
> These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2017.
> 
> Fourteen Palestinian boys and girls under the age of 18 were shot dead by Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the year.
> 
> There were 21 fewer children killed than in 2016, which was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the occupied West Bank in the past decade.
> 
> In addition to those 14 shot and killed during 2017, a child died of wounds sustained in an Israeli drone strike years earlier.
> 
> Another was killed by Israeli ordnance while grazing livestock. A baby living in temporary shelter, his family homeless as a result of Israeli bombing, died of cold exposure.
> 
> Palestinian children also died because they were unable to secure permits to leave via the Israeli-controlled Erez checkpoint for medical treatment unavailable in the besieged Gaza Strip.
> 
> Emergency room doctors were unable to resuscitate a seriously ill 9-year-old girl in the West Bank after Israeli soldiers denied her family passage at a checkpoint; a trip that normally would take 15 minutes took her family 90 minutes after they were forced to detour and go through a different checkpoint.
> 
> No Israeli children were killed by Palestinians during the year. An Israeli woman wounded during a bus stop bombing in 2011, when she was 14, and who had never regained consciousness, died of her injures in 2017.
> 
> These are the Palestinian children Israel killed in 2017
> 
> the truth will set you free
> murdering children is what the IDF does best;
> -



From your link to the “Propaganda gee-had”:

“Most, but certainly not all, of those children were killed during the course of what Israel alleges were attacks or attempted attacks, mainly on soldiers at checkpoints in the West Bank.”



“Children” raised from _childhood _to believe they are to be a disposable commodity for the Islamic obsession with Jew hatred.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> “Most, but certainly not all, of those children were killed during the course of what Israel alleges were attacks or attempted attacks, mainly on soldiers at checkpoints in the West Bank.”


You can find an excuse for almost anything. As you know, Trump is the alfa-expert on this.

The child in this link was shot by a sniper just moments after this photo was taken.

*Hollie*, was the murder of this child justified or not; please explain.




-


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Hollie*, states that nor “all” those children were murdered for no reason, some were a true threat.

How about those children who were murdered who were not a threat?

Did the killers get charged with a crime, demoted or were they given a medal of honor for their gallantry under the onslaught of that child.

Just asking

-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> “*Most*, but certainly not all, of those children were killed



what is there left to say-?
-


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> The child in this link was shot by a sniper just moments after this photo was taken.



You've been corrected on this blatant lie so many times, its *pathological* that you continue to bring it up.

Faris Odeh was NOT shot by a sniper just moments after this photo was taken.  Faris Odeh was shot and killed ten days later in what was, to all appearances, an unintended fatal shot while Faris was engaging AGAIN in violent riots against Israel's citizens and LEOs. 

Faris Odeh routinely attended violent riots.  He engaged on a daily basis.  He skipped school to do so.  It got so bad that his parents TIED HIM TO THE ROOF OF HIS HOUSE in an unsuccessful attempt to keep him from engaging in violence.  (Not that I am condoning such behaviour on his parent's part -- just pointing out their desperation.)

The fact that you feel the need to DELIBERATELY LIE in order to present your case is evidence that you have no case and are simply and blatantly attempting to paint the Jewish people as evil.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> *These are the Palestinian children Israel killed in 2017*
> 
> 10 January 2018
> These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2017.
> 
> Fourteen Palestinian boys and girls under the age of 18 were shot dead by Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the year.
> 
> There were 21 fewer children killed than in 2016, which was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the occupied West Bank in the past decade.
> 
> In addition to those 14 shot and killed during 2017, a child died of wounds sustained in an Israeli drone strike years earlier.
> 
> Another was killed by Israeli ordnance while grazing livestock. A baby living in temporary shelter, his family homeless as a result of Israeli bombing, died of cold exposure.
> 
> Palestinian children also died because they were unable to secure permits to leave via the Israeli-controlled Erez checkpoint for medical treatment unavailable in the besieged Gaza Strip.
> 
> Emergency room doctors were unable to resuscitate a seriously ill 9-year-old girl in the West Bank after Israeli soldiers denied her family passage at a checkpoint; a trip that normally would take 15 minutes took her family 90 minutes after they were forced to detour and go through a different checkpoint.
> 
> No Israeli children were killed by Palestinians during the year. An Israeli woman wounded during a bus stop bombing in 2011, when she was 14, and who had never regained consciousness, died of her injures in 2017.
> 
> These are the Palestinian children Israel killed in 2017
> 
> the truth will set you free
> murdering children is what the IDF does best;
> -



Liar.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> How about those children who were murdered who were not a threat?



Did you not read your own post?  Every.  Single.  One.  of the 13 described on that post was posing an immediate and legitimate threat to Israel and her citizens.  Every.  Single.  One.  Seven had attempted or successfully completed a stabbing or vehicular or fire bombing attack.  Four were killed in "confrontations" (violent riots).  Two were killed because they approached the border fence with Gaza with suspicious activity (ie planting bombs).

The other three specific instances are more nuanced:

One was an infant child who died THREE YEARS AFTER the 2014 Gaza war, largely because the government of Gaza failed to provide adequate shelter, preferring instead to put its resources towards building tunnels and importing weapons.

One was a child who was walking in a military zone, and honestly, I'd have to look into it further to see fault here.

One was a child who died after prolonged medical trauma in the 2014 Gaza war.



Here's an idea.  How about we see if we can convince the Arab Palestinians NOT TO USE THEIR CHILDREN AS COMBATANTS.


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “*Most*, but certainly not all, of those children were killed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is there left to say-?
> -
Click to expand...


Nothing. The link you supplied refutes your attempt at argument. 

Thanks.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Most, but certainly not all, of those children were killed during the course of what Israel alleges were attacks or attempted attacks, mainly on soldiers at checkpoints in the West Bank.”
> 
> 
> 
> You can find an excuse for almost anything. As you know, Trump is the alfa-expert on this.
> 
> The child in this link was shot by a sniper just moments after this photo was taken.
> 
> *Hollie*, was the murder of this child justified or not; please explain.
> View attachment 287721
> -
Click to expand...


*The child in this link was shot by a sniper just moments after this photo was taken.*

Post the photos taken after he was shot...….


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy missing the point(s), Batman.
> 
> Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.
> 
> 1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
> 2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
> 3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
> 4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.
> 
> So, to answer your post.
> 
> 1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.
> 
> 2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.
> 
> 3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?
> 
> 4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
Click to expand...

You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Post the photos taken after he was shot...….


Your a big boy, I'm sure you can find them yourself. -


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the photos taken after he was shot...….
> 
> 
> 
> Your a big boy, I'm sure you can find them yourself. -
Click to expand...


Where could I find your imaginary photos?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy missing the point(s), Batman.
> 
> Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.
> 
> 1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
> 2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
> 3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
> 4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.
> 
> So, to answer your post.
> 
> 1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.
> 
> 2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.
> 
> 3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?
> 
> 4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
Click to expand...


You keep forgetting you can’t make a defendable argument. 

It was Islamic terrorists who fired rockets just a day ago at Israel.

Who is the aggressor?


----------



## watchingfromafar

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Where could I find your imaginary photos?


in the land of oooze -


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> It was Islamic terrorists who fired rockets just a day ago at Israel.


link please -


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where could I find your imaginary photos?
> 
> 
> 
> in the land of oooze -
Click to expand...


So.....your house.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

As previously stated (supra Posting 14554), the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) is not based on political subjectivity, but attempts to achieve "military advantage."



P F Tinmore said:


> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?


*(COMMENT)*

You are trying to use "political rhetoric" to attack the attempts to achieve a "military advantage."  Your attempts to use effective or persuasive speech to counter attempts to set the conditions and battle outcomes that put Israel in a favorable and superior military position.



P F Tinmore said:


> Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.


*(COMMENT)*

In the absence of any good-faith attempts at a negotiated peace:

_On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in Diaspora (mahajir) constitute- both their organizations and the individuals- *one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.*_​
Thus, at some point, the military paradigm _(example or pattern of combat action)_ to compromise the will of the Arab Palestinians to carry on the conflict.  

Today, the reason that the Israeli Military effort to suppress Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is that the Humanitarian effort, while well-meaning, is counterproductive to breaking the HoAP will to carry on with the oath:

_"The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."_​
As long as the HoAP persists in this endeavor, the longer the conflict and the more the Arab Palestinians will suffer at their own hand.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.


*(COMMENT)*

As for Israel shooting "its way out of a political problem" → it is an entirely wrong assessment in the wrong domain _(political paradox 'vs' actual military action)_.   _(One talks about solutions and one is implementation of reality towards a solution.)_  You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the framework effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace _(ie Hostile Arab Palestinians • HoAP)_.


​........... 


Most Respectfully,
R _[ → (Doofus)(stupid person)(ad hominem)]_[/QUOTE]


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy missing the point(s), Batman.
> 
> Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.
> 
> 1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
> 2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
> 3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
> 4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.
> 
> So, to answer your post.
> 
> 1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.
> 
> 2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.
> 
> 3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?
> 
> 4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
Click to expand...


Ah, actually, no.  Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance.  Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.  

What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the framework effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace...



Yes, AND this inability to operate within the framework of Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States is the reason why Arab Palestine is still (!) not ready to take on the role of a State on the global stage, and, honestly, may never be able to.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Where could I find your imaginary photos?



I did not save the article; just the photo. Because you asked, I went back to find it without any success; but I did find this--
Palestinian boys throw stones at an Israeli tank during clashes in... News Photo - Getty Images
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> not ready to take on the role of a State on the global stage, and, honestly, may never be able to.



I'm sure you meant to say--_"Israel not ready to take on the role of a State on the global stage, and, honestly, may never be able to"_

*God knew this way back then, Israel is unfit.*
*King James Bible*
And God said unto him, Thy name _is_ Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

(Ezek 36:17 KJV)  Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.


*King James Bible*
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; *thou shalt be no more remembered:* for I the LORD have spoken _it_.

-


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy missing the point(s), Batman.
> 
> Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.
> 
> 1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
> 2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
> 3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
> 4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.
> 
> So, to answer your post.
> 
> 1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.
> 
> 2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.
> 
> 3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?
> 
> 4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, actually, no.  Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance.  Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.
> 
> What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
Click to expand...

Only Israel can stop Israel's war.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where could I find your imaginary photos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not save the article; just the photo. Because you asked, I went back to find it without any success; but I did find this--
> Palestinian boys throw stones at an Israeli tank during clashes in... News Photo - Getty Images
> -
Click to expand...


* I went back to find it without any success; *

Because it was a lie.

Glad you realize that now.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy missing the point(s), Batman.
> 
> Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.
> 
> 1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
> 2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
> 3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
> 4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.
> 
> So, to answer your post.
> 
> 1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.
> 
> 2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.
> 
> 3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?
> 
> 4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, actually, no.  Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance.  Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.
> 
> What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only Israel can stop Israel's war.
Click to expand...


By pushing the Gazans into the sea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As previously stated (supra Posting 14554), the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) is not based on political subjectivity, but attempts to achieve "military advantage."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are trying to use "political rhetoric" to attack the attempts to achieve a "military advantage."  Your attempts to use effective or persuasive speech to counter attempts to set the conditions and battle outcomes that put Israel in a favorable and superior military position.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the absence of any good-faith attempts at a negotiated peace:
> 
> _On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in Diaspora (mahajir) constitute- both their organizations and the individuals- *one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.*_​
> Thus, at some point, the military paradigm _(example or pattern of combat action)_ to compromise the will of the Arab Palestinians to carry on the conflict.
> 
> Today, the reason that the Israeli Military effort to suppress Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is that the Humanitarian effort, while well-meaning, is counterproductive to breaking the HoAP will to carry on with the oath:
> 
> _"The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."_​
> As long as the HoAP persists in this endeavor, the longer the conflict and the more the Arab Palestinians will suffer at their own hand.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As for Israel shooting "its way out of a political problem" → it is an entirely wrong assessment in the wrong domain _(political paradox 'vs' actual military action)_.   _(One talks about solutions and one is implementation of reality towards a solution.)_  You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the framework effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace _(ie Hostile Arab Palestinians • HoAP)_.
> 
> View attachment 287726​...........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R _[ → (Doofus)(stupid person)(ad hominem)]_
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States


Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Only Israel can stop Israel's war.



Israel isn't making war.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What military advantage does Israel anticipate?  Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy missing the point(s), Batman.
> 
> Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.
> 
> 1.  The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
> 2.  Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
> 3.  When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
> 4.  Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.
> 
> So, to answer your post.
> 
> 1.  Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace.  Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage.  Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term.  Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.
> 
> 2.  Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality.  It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.
> 
> 3.  Yes, they still get rockets and protests.  Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage.  Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so.  It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?
> 
> 4.  Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm).  It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel.  What is the political problem?  And how can it be achieved?  Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, actually, no.  Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance.  Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.
> 
> What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only Israel can stop Israel's war.
Click to expand...


Hamas initiated an act of war by firing rockets at Israel. 

How did you miss that?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith.  No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact.  You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequenctly.  You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there.  No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.


*• Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•*
Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global *propaganda* war *against Israel*, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming *Israel*. *Hamas* also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.

•* Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists* •
By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019

*• Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda •*
May 8, 2019 by Bonchie

*• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •*
May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers

• *Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel • *
May 02, 2019 *Sean Durns / JNS.org*

• *Hamas' propaganda coup* •
16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

*• Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel •*
15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper,  | Fox News

*• Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War •*
INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014

_• _*"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"*_ • _
Spiegel. January 16, 2009.​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

It's quite the comedy of bungling Islamic terrorists. Hamas is claiming they are not aware of what "unknown factions" launched a series of rockets at Israel.  



Gaza rocket fire at Israel was act of defiance against Hamas, says official in the Strip

The rockets that were fired into southern Israel on Friday night from Gaza were not launched by one of the major factions in the Strip, which collaborate through the joint war room, a Hamas official told Haaretz on Saturday.

He also said that this was an act of defiance against Hamas by unknown factors. At the same time, Israel's response is seen in the Strip as deviating from the rules estbalished in the region in recent months - in a way that indicates that Israel intends to escalate the situation, he said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith.  No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact.  You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequenctly.  You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there.  No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.
> 
> 
> *• Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•*
> Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global *propaganda* war *against Israel*, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming *Israel*. *Hamas* also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.
> 
> •* Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists* •
> By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019
> 
> *• Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda •*
> May 8, 2019 by Bonchie
> 
> *• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •*
> May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers
> 
> • *Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel • *
> May 02, 2019 *Sean Durns / JNS.org*
> 
> • *Hamas' propaganda coup* •
> 16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry
> 
> *• Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel •*
> 15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper,  | Fox News
> 
> *• Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War •*
> INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014
> 
> _• _*"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"*_ • _
> Spiegel. January 16, 2009.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are ducking my question.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, no...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith.  No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact.  You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequently.  You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there.  No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.
> 
> 
> *• Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•*
> Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global *propaganda* war *against Israel*, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming *Israel*. *Hamas* also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.
> 
> •* Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists* •
> By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019
> 
> *• Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda •*
> May 8, 2019 by Bonchie
> 
> *• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •*
> May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers
> 
> • *Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel • *
> May 02, 2019 *Sean Durns / JNS.org*
> 
> • *Hamas' propaganda coup* •
> 16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry
> 
> *• Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel •*
> 15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper,  | Fox News
> 
> *• Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War •*
> INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014
> 
> _• _*"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"*_ • _
> Spiegel. January 16, 2009.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my question.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is not a case of me "ducking the question."  It is a case of you, using that worthless retort to avoid acknowledging the answer.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ropey

2 hrs ago. 

IAF hits Hamas targets following rocket barrage


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, no...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith.  No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact.  You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequently.  You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there.  No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.
> 
> 
> *• Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•*
> Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global *propaganda* war *against Israel*, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming *Israel*. *Hamas* also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.
> 
> •* Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists* •
> By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019
> 
> *• Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda •*
> May 8, 2019 by Bonchie
> 
> *• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •*
> May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers
> 
> • *Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel • *
> May 02, 2019 *Sean Durns / JNS.org*
> 
> • *Hamas' propaganda coup* •
> 16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry
> 
> *• Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel •*
> 15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper,  | Fox News
> 
> *• Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War •*
> INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014
> 
> _• _*"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"*_ • _
> Spiegel. January 16, 2009.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is not a case of me "ducking the question."  It is a case of you, using that worthless retort to avoid acknowledging the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"

What part of all that answered that question?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas may want calm, but at least one Islamic Jihad leader has different plans


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Endless bluster, all for the sake of looking as if they actually "care" for anyone but themselves and what they get out of it ]


Al-Quds Brigades: The enemy must not feel comfortable and live in peace


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What part of all that answered that question?



The part of all that; that answered that question. 

Did the part of all that, that answered the question hurt your feelings?


----------



## Hollie

Helpless is as helpless does. 



Leading Palestinian news site accounts suspended by Twitter

Quds News Network (QNN) said that three of its accounts, including its English-language account, were suspended without explanation.

Nisreen al-Khatib, co-director of QNN, tweeted that she was "helpless" following the ban.

"I am co-director of [QNN] & I find myself helpless as Twitter has today morning suspended 3 verified accounts of the network I work with, w/out offering reasons," she said.

"Quds News Network is an essential site for publishing the Palestinian content in Arabic & English to the world!"


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"
> 
> What part of all that answered that question?


*(COMMENT)*

• See Hollie's posting _supra._ *I gave you nine (9) links. •  Posting 14593* •




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"
> 
> What part of all that answered that question?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> • See Hollie's posting _supra._ *I gave you nine (9) links. •  Posting 14593* •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, which one answers the question?


----------



## Hollie

This puts Hamas in quite a predicament. While Hamas may or may not have had a hand in the latest islamic terrorist rocket attacks, it will be their welfare funded infrastructure and operatives that will be first in line at the business end of Israeli retaliation. 

There are reports that the latest rocket attacks were undertaken by Islamic terrorist franchises other than Hamas and without their knowledge. That would suggest that Hamas either can’t control the competing Islamic terrorist franchises in the “Country of Pal’istan”, (Gaza’istan caliphate), or that perhaps Iran is losing patience with their occupation forces and wants some action to justify their welfare contributions. 




PM: Hamas to blame for all Gaza attacks, we’ll use all means to keep Israel safe

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday said he holds Hamas responsible for any attacks emanating from the Gaza Strip but will not divulge his plans for dealing with the situation, after 10 rockets were launched from the coastal enclave over the weekend, one of which hit a home in the southern town of Sderot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"
> 
> What part of all that answered that question?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> • See Hollie's posting _supra._ *I gave you nine (9) links. •  Posting 14593* •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, which one answers the question?
Click to expand...


Indeed, which one doesn’t?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,

All of them answer the question from a number of propaganda perspectives. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, which one answers the question?


*(COMMENT)*

There are different types of propaganda.  I have given you a number of perspectives.  Each one attempts to, in some way, either justify the actions of HAMAS, bring sympathy on HAMAS, or make it appear there is enormous support outside the normal sphere of foreign concern. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"
> 
> What part of all that answered that question?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> • See Hollie's posting _supra._ *I gave you nine (9) links. •  Posting 14593* •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, which one answers the question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, which one doesn’t?
Click to expand...

Your usual duck.


----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"
> 
> What part of all that answered that question?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> • See Hollie's posting _supra._ *I gave you nine (9) links. •  Posting 14593* •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, which one answers the question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, which one doesn’t?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual duck.
Click to expand...


Why don't you just shut those Zionists up by educating them to all of the Palestinian contributions to peace, mankind & civilization?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> All of them answer the question from a number of propaganda perspectives.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, which one answers the question?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are different types of propaganda.  I have given you a number of perspectives.  Each one attempts to, in some way, either justify the actions of HAMAS, bring sympathy on HAMAS, or make it appear there is enormous support outside the normal sphere of foreign concern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There are different types of propaganda. I have given you a number of perspectives.


Israeli perspectives.


----------



## Hollie

Both of the Islamic terrorist franchises in the Iranian zipcode of _Little Tehran_ are making blustering threats about their intention to, you know, make more blustering threats. 

It seems Hamas is anxious to sidestep accountability for the most recent islamo-rocket launches. They must know that they will be first beneficiaries of the IDF delivered beatdown for new attacks. 


Hamas, Islamic Jihad warn Israel after Gaza strikes
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-islamic-jihad-warn-israel-after-gaza-strikes/

But Hamas official claims to Israeli paper major groups not behind launches; hikers find bomb hidden inside book in riverbed near Gaza, possibly flown over border by balloon
2 November 2019, 1:57 pm  10


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> All of them answer the question from a number of propaganda perspectives.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, which one answers the question?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are different types of propaganda.  I have given you a number of perspectives.  Each one attempts to, in some way, either justify the actions of HAMAS, bring sympathy on HAMAS, or make it appear there is enormous support outside the normal sphere of foreign concern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are different types of propaganda. I have given you a number of perspectives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli perspectives.
Click to expand...


Islamist talking point.


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality of Islamic terrorist enclaves, LGBTQ people do not meet the highest ideals of the Islamic Death Cult met by suicide bombers, mass murderers and associated Islamic psychopaths.  


Violence against LGBTQ people continued “with greater frequency and intensity” since PA police said gay activities “violate highest ideals,” says Palestinian LGBTQ organization

Violence against LGBTQ people "with greater frequency and intensity" since PA police said gay activities "violate highest ideals" | PMW Analysis


“Much of the violence and harassment perpetrated since August has been at the hands of police officers themselves”
LGBTQ activists have experienced “military-style investigations involving violence, blackmailing, and interrogations marked by coercive, offensive, and insulting questions regarding private lives”


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Arabs-Moslems are up in arms. Among their most useful vehicles for incitement and promotion of violence has been shut down.

How can we help?

Can’t we give them more welfare money?


Palestinians up in arms over PA and Facebook censorship


“RAMALLAH, West Bank — The Magistrate Court in Ramallah on Oct. 24 reaffirmed its Oct. 17 decision to block 59 websites and social media pages in the West Bank and Gaza based on Article 39 of a 2018 cybercrime law.”



Oh, wait. I just assumed there was reason to blame the kuffar. 

Never mind. 

And cancel that offer of welfare money.


----------



## Hollie

I can't imagine any Arab-Moslem choosing to be a burden and not willing to sacrifice their lives in furtherance of the Jew killing aspirations of Baha. 





This elusive Jihadist commander in Gaza is challenging both Hamas and Israel
_





Baha Abu al-Ata (right) during a military parade.
*This Elusive Jihadist Commander in Gaza Is Challenging Both Hamas and Israel*

Unburdened from responsibility for Gaza civilians, Baha Abu al-Ata has more freedom than Hamas to take action against Israel

_


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

Is this once of those examples that our friend "P F Tinmore" was looking for?



Hollie said:


> Oh, my. Arabs-Moslems are up in arms. Among their most useful vehicles for incitement and promotion of violence has been shut down.
> Palestinians up in arms over PA and Facebook censorship
> “RAMALLAH, West Bank — The Magistrate Court in Ramallah on Oct. 24 reaffirmed its Oct. 17 decision to block 59 websites and social media pages in the West Bank and Gaza based on Article 39 of a 2018 cybercrime law.”






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Is this once of those examples that our friend "P F Tinmore" was looking for?
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. Arabs-Moslems are up in arms. Among their most useful vehicles for incitement and promotion of violence has been shut down.
> Palestinians up in arms over PA and Facebook censorship
> “RAMALLAH, West Bank — The Magistrate Court in Ramallah on Oct. 24 reaffirmed its Oct. 17 decision to block 59 websites and social media pages in the West Bank and Gaza based on Article 39 of a 2018 cybercrime law.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I would be curious to see if our friend P F Tinmore is in agreement that a key element in the maintenance of totalitarianism is control and censorship of all forms of news, media and information. 

One of the hallmarks of western nations is a free press and protection of free speech / expression. Those values are typically squashed under totalitarian regimes that are so common across the Middle East.


----------



## Hollie

There is a lot of shared responsibility for what amounts to funding an islamic terrorist / criminal enterprise.  For decades, western donors showered islamic terrorists with billions of dollars in welfare money knowing that huge portions of that welfare was used to finance acts of islamic terrorism and to finance the fortunes of islamic terrorist leaders. 

The scope of the fraud is just staggering. 


The missing billions of the Palestinian Authority | PMW Analysis

*The missing billions of the Palestinian Authority*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 4, 2019
*The missing billions of the Palestinian Authority:
Funding for terror organizations, and funding for institutions
that have not functioned for over a decade*

*Since 2011, the PA has given the PLO over 7,000,000,000 (7 billion) shekels ($1.99 billion/€1.78 billion). Some of that money went directly to PLO member organizations, such as the PFLP, that the US, the EU, and Israel have designated as terrorist organizations*

*Even though the PA has not held elections for 15 years, from 2011 to 2018 the PA spent 104,566,000 shekels ($29.7 million/€26.6 million on its “Central Election Committee”*

*While the PA’s “Legislative Council” - the PA Parliament - has not functioned since 2006, from 2011 to 2018 the PA spent no less than 336,746,000 shekels ($95.5 million/€85.5 million) on the “Legislative Council” *

*In total, these activities have cost the PA over 7,440,000,000 (7.44 billion) shekels ($2.12 billion/€1.89 billion) *


----------



## Hollie

With competition from _Baha Abu al-Ata_ for the title of “Emir of the most Grandiose Threat”, Sinwar has seemingly decided that he needs to regain some Islamo-street creed with some Islamo-bluster of his own. 

I’m not convinced that these two misfits understand the level of mayhem that Israel could unleash if another 700 rockets began launching from Gaza. 

If it actually came to pass, it could be a very messy affair for Gaza. The Arabs-Moslems best friend, _Baha, _has seemingly decided that Arab-Moslem civilians are a disposable commodity to be used in furtherance in the gee-had. While he might hope to score propaganda points with dead civilians, It seems that more of the planet is finding less reason to accept the Islamic propensity for using civilians as intentional war material. 
*


Hamas Leader in Gaza Threatens His Group Can Strike Tel Aviv 'For Six Consecutive Months' *

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium-hamas-leader-in-gaza-threatens-group-can-strike-tel-aviv-for-6-consecutive-months-1.8084502

Amid escalation on Gaza border, Yahya Sinwar also directly threatens Kahol Lavan leader Benny Gantz: 'We will get you to the point that you curse the day you were born'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Wafa is upset that this story was published.  After quoting the entire part above, it said, "The aim is to shed light and create a stir that could end with a boycott of Arab restaurants in Nazareth."

Reporting that a Christian Arab restaurant owner is a bigot is of course newsworthy. But Wafa doesn't like it because it is embarrassing and shameful to Arabs. Instead of accepting that, the PA lashes out at the reporter and publisher for daring to publicize the truth that makes them look bad.

And this is what they call "incitement."

(full article online)

Palestinians: "Don't shame us by telling the truth!" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Other huge amounts were given by China, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

These gifts aren't because these foreign countries love American universities. These are attempts to influence what the university teaches, and with that to influence the next generation of American leaders.

Even the Palestinian Authority, supposedly with no money to pay its own bills, manages to give a million dollars to Harvard University, in 2017.

(full article online)

"Cash strapped" Palestinian Authority has given $1 million to Harvard U ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sheik Sinwar is reminding us that beside the wealth, luxury shopping malls and foreign bank accounts that result from a dedicated Islamic terrorist welfare endowment, UNRWA, welfare pays for war materials.


Hamas leader says terror group has ‘hundreds of kilometers’ of tunnels

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar threatens Israel, warning the Gaza terrorist group has  cross-border tunnels that extend for “hundreds of kilometers” and an arsenal of thousands of rockets and mortars.



What a shame they can’t pay their electric bill. 

PA 'stops paying for Gaza electricity'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The supposed "expert" then informed his audience that Hareidi communities in Israel do not allow ambulances or other emergency vehicles into their neighborhoods on Shabbat. This is absurd.

The Gaza audience was told that Haredim "denigrate women and tend to violence them in all forms, treating women as impure and only good for having babies."

The more religious women are required to wear a full body veil, according to Abu Shomer. (There is a tiny cult that forces women to wear a veil but their bizarre rules have nothing to do with Judaism, as they are denigrated as the "Taliban.")

Another new rule that no one has heard of before: "The ultra-Orthodox religion also forbids a man from sitting in a seat on which a woman was sitting, until 10 minutes after she left." I guess religious men can never sit on a bus or subway because they don't know who sat on the seat beforehand.

The speaker then went on to say that Israel imports haredim into the country and pays them to have lots of kids.

As for how the haredim make a living , well, they smuggle drugs!

This Hamas antisemitism under the guise of scholarship is about as explicit as it gets.

(full article online)

Hamas symposium describes religious Jews as "ugly and weird" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The report talks about Fatah thugs in a Christian-majority village called Jifna, north of Ramallah. These thugs fired shots at homes and businesses, threw Molotov cocktails and demanded the Christians to pay jizya (poll tax for non-Muslims to live in "peace.")

The one who was accused of being responsible for this was formerly the head of chamber of commerce in Ramallah and a former candidate for the revolutionary council of Fatah. He was not arrested nor called in for questioning by the PA.

In another incident, the PA security forces "stormed" the house of a Christian woman named Teresa Hajl in Bethlehem. They beat her daughter, and when she tried to protect her daughter, they killed her. Since the mother had Jordanian citizenship, the daughter appealed, apparently unsuccessfully, to the king of Jordan (the report does not say whether the king did anything). The PA didn't do anything.

The report ends with the question "in whose interest do the security forces of the PA harm social peace"?  The implicit answer is, of course, the Jews.

Of course, nearly all of the Christians in Gaza have fled under Hamas rule, and a huge number of Christians in the West Bank have fled under PA rule. But it is November, meaning that the media will start publishing stories next month about how Israel is responsible for Christian flight from under Muslim rule, even though Christians are fleeing from every Muslim majority nation.

(full article online)

Hamas(!) accuses Fatah of persecuting Christians ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the KSA is taking a hard line with Hamas. That's not surprising as the Kingdom is fighting a low level proxy war with Iran via "rebels" in Yemen. Hamas aligning closely with the Shia Mullocrats is an unforgivable sin from the Saudi perspective. 

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/br...i-arabia-cuts-all-ties-with-hamas/2019/11/04/

Saudi Arabia has announced it has severed all ties with the Hamas terror organization, according to a source in the Palestinian Authority (PA).

The Saudis reportedly made the announcement in a meeting with the United Nations’ Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, Nickolay Mladenov.

The Saudis also announced they will not release the senior Hamas officials, who are being held on charges of financing terrorism.

Saudi authorities are holding Hamas official Mohammed al-Khoudari along with his son. Al-Khoudari oversaw Hamas’ relations with Saudi Arabia for over two decades.

They further warned that Hamas operatives who will enter their territory will be immediately arrested and charged with financing terrorism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mohammed Al Emadi told Hamas and other factions in the Gaza Strip that it would be difficult for Qatar to renew the $30 million it has been giving every month to help Gazans.

Al Akhbar said it received this information from Hamas officials. Palestine Today confirmed the story.

Qatar has been giving some 109,000 Gaza families $100 every month, along with paying for fuel, major building projects and other infrastructure. Qatar has been cooperating with Israel is providing this aid.

Hamas is hoping that either Qatar reverses the decision or that some of the tax revenues that the PA is refusing to accept from Israel will go directly to Gaza. This seems like wishful thinking.

Qatar has been the only Arab country that has seemed to actually care about Gazans beyond lip service. It has coordinated countless shipments of aid to Gaza with Israel. It has given hundreds of millions of dollars worth of aid while most Arab countries attend anti-Israel conferences and issue statements.

Yet even though only Qatar has walked the walk, the article says that Gazans resent the Qatari aid because Israel supports it. In the words of the writer, "Gazans know that what Doha offers is an Israeli interest before it is Palestinian."

That zero-sum thinking represents a lot of the problems of the Middle East in a nutshell.

(full article online)

Qatar may cut aid to Gaza at end of year ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Egyptians have a method for keeping their Islamic Terrorism problem under control. 



*Hamas official: Egypt has barred Haniyeh from traveling abroad for past 3 years*

Musa Abu Marzouk tells Arabic-language news site that Egyptian authorities restrict terror group chief’s movement to prevent him from meeting their political rivals. 

“The Egyptians are not permitting the head of the politburo to travel abroad because they do no want him to meet their political rivals,” Musa Abu Marzouk, a senior official in the terror group, told Dar al-Hayat, an Arabic-language news site.  “This ban [has been in place] for about the last three years.”




It’s hard to believe that Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib haven’t been organizing protests... or maybe a flotilla.


----------



## Hollie

A little islamo-extortion for your Wednesday morning. 

Hamas is announcing that a cut in their Qatari welfare payments could result in “an escalation in violence with Israel,”

Lovely. 

We’re not told why it is that Qatari welfare money buys a _certain amount_ of non-escalation of violence. I suppose that’s just a reality of living next to an Islamic terrorist enclave. 

Maybe 30 million dollars a month in welfare payments limits Islamic terrorist attacks to a dozen or less rockets per month fired at Israel. 




Hamas threatens cut in financial aid to Gaza will lead to escalation in violence

Qatari envoy to Gaza Strip informs enclave's headship during last visit, that Qatar will struggle to continue transferring monthly $ 30 million financial aid to the Strip

Hamas announced that a potential cut in monetary aid transferred to the Gaza Strip from Qatar may lead to an escalation in violence with Israel, that could even turn into a military confrontation, Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar reported on Tuesday.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> A little islamo-extortion for your Wednesday morning.
> 
> Hamas is announcing that a cut in their Qatari welfare payments could result in “an escalation in violence with Israel,”
> 
> Lovely.
> 
> We’re not told why it is that Qatari welfare money buys a _certain amount_ of non-escalation of violence. I suppose that’s just a reality of living next to an Islamic terrorist enclave.
> 
> Maybe 30 million dollars a month in welfare payments limits Islamic terrorist attacks to a dozen or less rockets per month fired at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas threatens cut in financial aid to Gaza will lead to escalation in violence
> 
> Qatari envoy to Gaza Strip informs enclave's headship during last visit, that Qatar will struggle to continue transferring monthly $ 30 million financial aid to the Strip
> 
> Hamas announced that a potential cut in monetary aid transferred to the Gaza Strip from Qatar may lead to an escalation in violence with Israel, that could even turn into a military confrontation, Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar reported on Tuesday.







 *“Gifts to US Universities from Selected Foreign Countries Since 2012.”*


_*“Palestinian Authority”*_








  The _*“Palestnian Authority”*_ is a _*“Selected COUNTRY?”*_




 _Huh?_




 Where is it on the globe, this country, the *“Palestinian Authority?”*


I find it….bizarre. why didn’t this country, _*‘the PA’*_ use this $$$$ 


towards fixing up:


- 


_the Ramallah refugee camp_....


.....and the refugee camps in Lebanon  ?



 


Why are they forking over all this dough 

 to an “American College?”





 it’s weird.

.....And why would *“WE”* accept this 

 $$$ in the first place from the likes of them 

?




*“Hamas is announcing* 

 *that a cut in their Qatari welfare payments could result in “an escalation in violence with Israel,”*



_*“...........an escalation in violence with Israel,”  *_




same ole, same ole....


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO's "Department of Human Rights" includes at least one member of a terror group ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian official told the agency that  the Palestinian authorities have been working on this, saying that a solution is on its way.

Yet it is Wednesday and nothing has been reported about this being resolved yet.

The UAE has been frosty with the PLO for a while now, partially due to its support of Abbas rival Mohammed Dahlan.

Palestinian media is bitter, pointing out that Israelis have been welcomed with open arms to the UAE in recent months, even to the point of the deputy tourism minister of one of the emirates welcoming Israelis visiting a high tech expo without a visa, telling Ynet, "Bruchim Habaim" - "Welcome" in Hebrew. And it is possible that the lift on limitations of Israeli visitors to the UAE may become permanent.

(full article online)

UAE doesn't issue a visa for the Mufti of Palestine - but may allow Israelis to enter freely ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Not sure what the protesting is about. If Hamas needed to “martyr” someone, I’m sure it was necessary for the gee-had. 



Rare protest against 'Hamas murderers' erupts in Gaza

The mysterious death of a 28-year-old university graduate, whom his family say was thrown out the window of his home by Hamas police, prompted many to turn up to his funeral with signs and banners, accusing Gaza's rulers of 'cold-blooded murder'


----------



## Hollie

The “country of Pal’istan”. Stolen identity. Stolen flag.


----------



## Hollie

More of the really disturbing goings-on in the PA Death Cult.

Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a survival instinct.  Once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear of dying. 

The Death Cult has turned millions of years of evolution upside down and has made the infliction of death and destruction via mass murder / suicide into a glorious undertaking. 

Here we have psychopaths, off-handedly chattering about the "uniqueness" that defines Pal Arab society. 




*Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”?*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 7, 2019
*"Martyrdom in Palestine is unique. We are the only ones who celebrate the news of a Martyr's wedding," says host on official PA TV*



Death as a "Martyr" for Allah and for "Palestine" - during terror attacks and other violent confrontations with Israel - has been promoted as an ideal by the Palestinian Authority for years, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.


----------



## Hollie

A Tamimi cultist may eventually be delivered to the Great Satan™️ to face infidel justice. 

It’s all fun and gee-had games when these low-lifes can celebrate their murders on YouTube. Life changes when you have the Great Satan’s state department pressuring the government shielding you, OR, when SEAL teams come for you under cover of darkness. 



U.S. Rejects Jordan's Refusal to Extradite Hamas Terrorist Wanted for Trial 

U.S. rejects Jordan's refusal to extradite Hamas terrorist wanted for trial

Development could lead to further American pressure on Amman to extradite Ahlam Tamimi, who played a major role in organizing the 'Sbarro attack' in Jerusalem in 2001


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is performing some world class sucking up before the Iranian Mullocrats. 

With the millions of dollars of Qatari welfare money seemingly coming to an end, Hamas has no choice but to bend and scrape before the Shia Iranians for welfare money. 



*Iran ‘Deserves Credit’ for ‘Building Our Strength,’ Says Hamas Chief*




A Hamas military drill in the Gaza Strip in March 2018. Photo: Reuters/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa.

JNS.org – Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar admitted on Monday that the Islamic Republic of Iran was responsible for “building the strength” of the Palestinian terrorist organization in the Gaza Strip by supplying it with both weapons and funding.


----------



## Hollie

The Ummah’s girls as a part of the rock throwing gee-had. 

And who says that ummah’istan discriminates against women?


----------



## wasrose

Hollie said:


> More of the really disturbing goings-on in the PA Death Cult.
> 
> Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a survival instinct.  Once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear of dying.
> 
> The Death Cult has turned millions of years of evolution upside down and has made the infliction of death and destruction via mass murder / suicide into a glorious undertaking.
> 
> Here we have psychopaths, off-handedly chattering about the "uniqueness" that defines Pal Arab society.
> 
> little boys are VERY IMPRESSIONABLE------when I was a kid -----bubble gum
> baseball cards had every little boy in my town convinced that  MICKEY MANTLE was a  MESSENGER FROM HEAVEN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”?*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 7, 2019
> *"Martyrdom in Palestine is unique. We are the only ones who celebrate the news of a Martyr's wedding," says host on official PA TV*
> 
> 
> 
> Death as a "Martyr" for Allah and for "Palestine" - during terror attacks and other violent confrontations with Israel - has been promoted as an ideal by the Palestinian Authority for years, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.


----------



## wasrose

iran deserves credit


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem terrorists spend the entirety of their lives in trembling fear of the conspiracy theories that consume their very existence. 
*


Dead ISIS leader Al-Baghdadi was a US “pawn” and Israel and ISIS are “twins” - according to the PA*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 6, 2019

Dead ISIS leader Al-Baghdadi was a US “pawn” and Israel and ISIS are “twins” - according to the PA | PMW Analysis

*"[The US] killed their pawn [Al-Baghdadi], who they planted in the open borderless territories of Iraq and Syria after they created an organization-state of barbarity, terror, and racism, for which they chose the name 'the Islamic State'"*
*"[The elimination of Al-Baghdadi] was tantamount to a strong blow that has cut off the tail of the monster of terror. However, this monster has a head [Israel], and in it is a brain that is capable of growing a different tail and wings"*


----------



## Hollie

The numbers are in and they take your breath away.

The amount of welfare money dumped on the islamic terrorists masquerading as "Pal'istanians" literally needs to be weighed on a truck scale to understand the amount.

What is unconscionable is that nations are still funding the islamic terrorist franchise in spite of fraud, theft and continued promotion of islamic terrorusm.



Palestinian Media Watch published a financial report of the Palestinian Authority based on its own financial records for the years 2011 – 2018.

The Palestinian Authority squandered at least NIS 7.5 billion between 2011 and 2018 on terror funding and non-functioning institutions, according to a new report by Palestinian Media Watch.

The Israeli watchdog this week published a financial report of the Palestinian Authority based on its own financial records for the years 2011 – 2018. The report shows that the PA transferred at least NIS 7 billion to the PLO, the umbrella organization for several Palestinian groups, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and the Palestinian Liberation Front. PFLP and PLP have been designated terrorist organizations by the United States and the European Union.

In addition, some 440 million shekels was invested in what PMW calls “non-functioning institutions,” such as the Central Elections Committee (NIS 104,566,000) and the parliament’s legislative council (336,746,000).
_


_


----------



## Hollie

See what your kids are missing?


----------



## Hollie

UNRWA welfare dollars at work.




*Each summer, the various organizations in Gaza vie to attract the most applicants for their summer programs. The three most successful groups are Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).*


----------



## Hollie

*Hamas Parades Children With Machine Guns in Celebration of 29th Anniversary*



The pinnacle of Arab-Moslem aspiration.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dahir Zidani, the owner of the Al Reda restaurant that has been in the news for not allowing patrons to speak Hebrew to his staff, is probably a bigot - but he is definitely a jerk.

He was interviewed by QudsN where he said that part of the reason that he bans Hebrew from being spoken is to push Arabic as a language of choice for Arabs like his workers, but the major reason is that Israelis are "barbaric:"
 There is another issue, one that Israelis may understand better than others, because they know themselves, that they are insolent and messy,they are loud and boastful, they enter the restaurant arrogantly and in a condescending way, and we found that this way we could restrain them. The moment we speak to them in English, they become different people, they lower their voices, they speak politely, they behave nicer and they are more civilized, not as much as we would like them to be, but less barbaric than they were beforehand. He also makes it cler that he doesn't consider himself an Israeli:

 Can an Israeli impose his conditions and mood on a restaurant in France or in Africa or ask them to bill the account in Hebrew ?! of course not. So I submit the invoice in Arabic, and if someone wants to explain the details of the invoice, I am of course ready, but I provide it in Arabic.
The striking thing about the interview though is that Zidani has a vision for the relationship between a restaurant owner and the customers that is not exactly how most businesses are run:

 This place is open to all people, but it is my place. Another point of view is who should determine the conditions of hospitality, is it the guest or the host ?! Or is this guest expecting that he can impose his conditions elsewhere as he tries to do with us ?! Or is this a reflection of the balance of power ?! "The customer is always right" is not this guy's slogan. This is very clear when he or his manager respond to criticism on TripAdvisor:

(full article online)

Nazareth restaurant owner who bans Hebrew is really a jerk ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It’s friday, so you know what that means. Yes.

*Friday Fun-Day at the Border Riots™️*
*




Thousands of Palestinians protest on Gaza border; 69 wounded in riots, clashes*
8 November 2019, 7:38 pm  1


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of Sinwar’istan seems pretty desperate to find someone, anyone, willing to listen to his islamo-bluster. 

He was further alienating the Arab nations with his fawning praise of Iran. It appears that Shia Iran is a primary source of welfare money so heaping praise on the heretical sec5 of Islamism is the cost of doing gee-had.




Hamas political leader warns Israel of group's capabilities

BEIRUT, LEBANON (10:45 A.M.) – The head of Hamas’ political bureau, Yahya Sinwar, told university students during a meeting earlier this month that his group has strengthened their forces and improved their military capabilities.

During the meeting, which was discussed in length in the Lebanese newspaper Al-Akhbar, Sinwar condemned Arab states that are normalizing relations with Israel. He would then go on to praise both Qatar and Iran, pointing out that both of these nations have provided humanitarian and military aid to the people of Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Some Arabs-Moslems were rioting about something.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> *Hamas Parades Children With Machine Guns in Celebration of 29th Anniversary*
> 
> 
> 
> The pinnacle of Arab-Moslem aspiration.






_*"Hamas Parades Children With Machine Guns in Celebration of 29th Anniversary"*_​





_Terrorist birds of a feather-flock together........._










​




 

 




​









​














​


​


----------



## Hollie

Gaza’s Mullah wannabe, the Emir of Sinwar’istan is talking tough. 

The usual blustering threats are, I suspect, intended to placate his Iranian bosses who are likely getting anxious to see their welfare money result in dead Sunni holy warriors. 



Hamas' Sinwar ramps up threats against Israel

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar’s Nov. 4 speech in Gaza raised red flags in Israel’s defense system. It was Sinwar's most militant speech in Gaza since the 2014 Operation Protective Edge. “We’ve had enough of this,” he yelled. “Prepare for something big.”

According to Sinwar, his organization has succeeded in digging tunnels several kilometers in length that will be able to stand up to a ground operation involving Israeli tanks. Sinwar also bragged that his organization has access to tens of thousands of rockets that can be fired at Tel Aviv for six months on end and leave the smaller localities in Israel “ghost towns.” He complained that the negotiations with Israel are stuck and that Hamas’ patience is running out. He emphasized, “What we cannot achieve with words, we will achieve with the language of the gun and Allah’s help.”



I’d rethink your strategy, tough guy. Allah is not going to help you if your masters in Tehran demand you earn your welfare payments.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas apparently has some competition in the area of gee-had supremacy. Aligning with Shia Iran is going to put Hamas in the gee-had radar of the more excitable Sunni / Salafi holy warriors. 
*

*

*
Hamas says it arrested three suspected jihadists at Gaza border
*
*Terror group says the trio were nabbed after a gunfight while attempting to sneak into Egypt*
8 November 2019, 2:10 pm  0




A Palestinian Hamas police cadet takes part in a graduation ceremony at the Arafat City police headquarters in Gaza City, on April 20, 2019. (Mahmud Hams/AFP)
Hamas security forces in Gaza foiled an attempt by three suspected jihadists to sneak into Egypt and arrested them after an exchange of fire Friday, the terror group said.


----------



## Hollie

Brought to you by those psychopaths who send their children to die in exchange for welfare payments.


----------



## Hollie

Helm tells the story of Bilal Masoud, “shot in his legs and right arm by Israeli soldiers at the border fence separating Gaza from Israel. Now he was unable to do anything for himself or feed his birds.”


*UPDATE: Shortly after the publication of this post, more information about Bilal Masoud was revealed. Read more: Exclusive: Gaza ‘Victim’ Exposed With His AK-47*

Masoud, unable to live with his injuries and a lack of support from Palestinian authorities eventually commits suicide, setting himself ablaze with kerosene. 



Poor Bilal. The gee-had didn’t go as planned.


----------



## Hollie

What you might expect. A thoroughly corrupt conglomeration of Islamic terrorist franchises. 




Corruption in the Palestinian Authority

Civil Society does exist in the Palestinian territories, and one of the strongest organizations is the one that fights corruption: The Coalition for Accountability and Integrity. It was established in 2000 and is linked to Transparency International.

Its tenth annual report is out, covering 2017 and entitled “Integrity and Combating Corruption.”


----------



## Hollie

This is all nice Mohammad but do you think you’re the first one to notice?
*

*

*
Deposed Fatah strongman slams ‘fascist, corrupt’ PA
*
Mohammad Dahlan says Palestinians should not blame Israel alone for their ‘disasters,’ criticizes Qatar for ‘politically motivated’ Gaza aid

He denounced the PA government as “corrupt and fascist” for “punishing” the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and called for the formation of a “national salvation leadership.”


----------



## Hollie

It’s a new day in the pre-modern, most haten’est place on the planet. 

Odd. Today seems like every other day in the Islamic terrorist enclave.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(vide video online)

Watch: Arab terrorists hurl firebombs at Israeli police in J'lem


----------



## Sixties Fan

Referring to Israel as “the Zionist enemy,” a member of the Fatah Revolutionary Council has claimed that Israel seeks to “incite the world against the Muslims” in order to trigger a war between Jews and Arabs.

Fatah official Haj Rifat Shanaah also said that Israel is trying to conjure up an image of being “weak and surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims and Arabs” in order to get support from the world. In fact, the Fatah official explained, it is the other way around. The Arab world is under threat from the “biological bomb” that is the “Zionist entity”: 

(full article online)

Is a Zionist biological bomb poisoning the Middle East? | PMW Analysis


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> (vide video online)
> 
> Watch: Arab terrorists hurl firebombs at Israeli police in J'lem


Adds a new dimension to dancing in the street.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (vide video online)
> 
> Watch: Arab terrorists hurl firebombs at Israeli police in J'lem
> 
> 
> 
> Adds a new dimension to dancing in the street.
Click to expand...


It does. 

Palestinian throws firebomb at cops, is shot, arrested – police


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

More unhinged rants coming from the Islamic cultist acting as the pre-fab Sultan of Crazytown. 

Video:
"Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar: We Have Hundreds of Kilometers of Underground Tunnels, Thousands of Traps, Thousands of Anti-Tank Missiles; We Will Crush Tel Aviv"

Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar said in a November 4, 2019 speech that aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) that Hamas has hundreds of kilometers of underground tunnels, hundreds of underground and above-ground command centers, thousands of traps, and thousands of locally-made anti-tank missiles, which he claimed can destroy Israel’s tanks. He said that Hamas has thousands of missiles that will turn Israel’s cities into ruins and ghost cities if Israel makes any “stupid” mistake.


----------



## Hollie

He needs to attend Hamas summer camp. Life lessons are learned there.


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality of Arab-Moslem’dom, elections are proposed with the ruling Fatah dictator being the only candidate. And why not? When the dictatorship is littered with farcical agencies, authorities, committees and assorted bureaucracies that exist only as letterhead on stationary, who is in a position to question the dictator?




Fatah: Abbas is our 'sole candidate' in elections


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In the alternate reality of Arab-Moslem’dom, elections are proposed with the ruling Fatah dictator being the only candidate. And why not? When the dictatorship is littered with farcical agencies, authorities, committees and assorted bureaucracies that exist only as letterhead on stationary, who is in a position to question the dictator?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Abbas is our 'sole candidate' in elections


The PA parliament has not met since 2007, when Hamas violently seized control of Gaza from Abbas’ Fatah faction.​
Is that Israel's propaganda version of Hamas winning the elections?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the alternate reality of Arab-Moslem’dom, elections are proposed with the ruling Fatah dictator being the only candidate. And why not? When the dictatorship is littered with farcical agencies, authorities, committees and assorted bureaucracies that exist only as letterhead on stationary, who is in a position to question the dictator?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Abbas is our 'sole candidate' in elections
> 
> 
> 
> The PA parliament has not met since 2007, when Hamas violently seized control of Gaza from Abbas’ Fatah faction.​
> Is that Israel's propaganda version of Hamas winning the elections?
Click to expand...


Hurt feelings?


----------



## Hollie

More dead Arabs-Moslems as Israel retaliates for Islamic terrorist attacks.

It looks more like suppressive strikes as opposed to real Islamic terrorist behavior modification.



2 terrorists killed as IDF retaliates after Gaza rocket attacks





IDF airstrike on northern Gaza, November 12th 2019


----------



## Hollie

Abu is no more.

Israel apparently issued a _cease and desist order_ to Abu, delivered by way of Lockheed Martin.




https://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/E...c-Jihads-Abu-al-Ata-Palestinian-report-607579


The Prime Minister’s Office confirmed that Israel was responsible for the airstrike which killed Al-Ata, who it described as a “senior Islamic Jihad commander” who master-minded “numerous terrorist attacks and rocket attacks against the State of Israel in recent months and who intended to immediately carry out further attacks.”


----------



## Hollie

There were some interesting goings-on overnight.

Israel decided to take some preemptive measures regarding the islamic terrorist problem. 



Double attacks target Palestinian militant group in Gaza and Damascus


----------



## Mindful

Another barrage of rockets fired on Israel this morning. If it were on southern England, it would look like this.

Would there be a response?


----------



## Lipush

Hi guys. So it's going to be another one of those nights, eh?


----------



## Hollie

It appears that Abu caught a missile in his apartment.

Say goodnight, Abu. 



Flare-up as Israel kills top Palestinian militant

An Israeli warplane fired a missile at a residential building in the eastern Shejaiya area of Gaza before dawn on Tuesday, causing an explosion that could be heard from kilometres away. The missile hit the third floor, killing Abu al-Ata and his wife.

_




Image captionThe Israeli military said it carried out a "surgical strike" on Baha Abu al-Ata's home_


----------



## Hollie

Some interesting observations at J post.

It seems Hamas may be reluctant to fire salvos of missiles at Israel for fear of a major retaliatory campaign that could do phenomenonal damage if Israel is pushed hard.  




Hamas’s Islamic Jihad Dilemma - Analysis
Israel News
18:25 | 11/12/19

HAMAS’S ISLAMIC JIHAD DILEMMA - ANALYSIS
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_




House where Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader Bahaa Abu Al-Ata was assassinated by the IDF. (photo credit:" MAJDI FATHI/TPS)
The assassination of Abu al-Ata came as a surprise to PIJ leaders, who rushed to announce that their group was now at war with Israel.
The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), whose senior commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata was killed by Israel on Tuesday, has been causing headaches not only for Israel, but also for the Egyptians and Hamas.

The assassination of al-Ata came as a surprise to PIJ leaders, who rushed to announce that their group was now at war with Israel. Palestinians in the Gaza Strip described the assassination as a “big blow” to the group and its military wing, Al-Quds Brigades.

Hamas, meanwhile, seemed to be very cautious in its response to the assassination. By Tuesday afternoon, it remained unclear whether Hamas has officially joined PIJ and other groups in firing rockets at Israel. Hamas is reluctant to engage in a new war with Israel because it knows that would mean the end of its rule, the Palestinians explained._


----------



## Hollie

Hamas has an islamic terrorist problem. They allowed a competing islamic terrorist franchise to go rogue and they're now between Iran and and welfare check. 

Iran is going to demand a holy gee-had as a way to save credibility and Hamas will be expected to obey their masters and become the sacrificial gee-had wannabes.



Hamas let PIJ terror chief act with impunity; now it needs to control the flames


----------



## Hollie

Decisions, decisions. 

So many nominees for Islamic Death Cult Mother of the Year award.


----------



## Ropey

The world is a better place without them . Now they’re in the hands of the ultimate judge. Sorry no virgins in sight.


----------



## Ropey

Hamas' Al-Aqsa TV station rebroadcasted a song that calls for "Death to Israel" multiple times on Tuesday.


----------



## Ropey

Where's Coyote to give the Islamic apologist side of this?


----------



## Mindful

The Palestinians held in Syrian prisons are probably not overly concerned about whether or not a bottle of wine made by Jews is labeled by the Europeans. The Europeans, however, seem to perceive settlement products as more dangerous than the repressive and brutal measures taken by the Syrian authorities against Palestinians. (Image source: iStock)


As all eyes are turned on the latest tensions in the Gaza Strip, where Palestinian terror groups have been firing rockets at Israel in retaliation for the Israeli killing of Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata, the number of Palestinians killed in Syria since the civil war began there in 2011 has risen to 4,006.

The plight of the Palestinians in Syria, however, is of no concern to Palestinian leaders in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, who continue to be obsessed with destroying Israel. The international community, including the United Nations and human rights organizations, are also clearly not interested in the suffering of Palestinians in Syria -- or in any other Arab country.

The 4,006 Palestinians killed in Syria were not targeted by Israel; evidently that is reason enough for the international community and the UN to look the other way.

The 4,006 Palestinians the Europeans Have Not Heard Of


----------



## Hollie

It sure looks like "proportional response" from Israel is going mean, you know, _more proportional _if Hamas decides to wave the gee-had flag.

I think it's doubtful that Iran will feel obliged to increase their welfare payments to Hamas to replace buildings as they fall under Israeli retaliatory strikes.




Israel said to warn Hamas that if it joins fighting, IDF will start blowing up entire buildings

Israel has sent a message to Hamas through intermediaries, warning the terror group that if it joins the fighting against the Jewish state, the IDF will begin flattening high-rise buildings, as it did during the 2014 Gaza war, the Kan public broadcaster reports.

The broadcaster cites a Palestinian official, who says that Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are working together, and are being careful to avoid dragging Gaza into an all-out war with Israel. Hamas is not believed to be directly involved in firing rockets at Israel.


----------



## Hollie

More attacks from Iran's flunkies in Gaza. More respinses from Israel to the islamic terrorist rocket fire.




Death toll surges on second day of Israel-Gaza violence


----------



## Hollie

There is some rather childish foot stomping and blustering coming from the Hamas franchise of Gaza based Islamic terrorists. They are issuing “threats” to join the war being waged by the competing, Iranian based group of Islamic terrorists unless Israel stops retaliating. That’s just absurd. Hamas wages a continuous, low level war against Israel. Hamas has a written manifesto that explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel. Hamas would be firing rockets at Israel daily if not for being throttled by the certainty of an Israeli reprisal for gee-had attacks. 

Hamas knows that if Abu Al-Ata can be whacked, the same anti gee-had fate can greet Haniyeh and Sinwar. 









Hamas official suggests group will join fight if Israeli strikes don’t cease

Hamas official suggests group will join fight if Israeli strikes don’t cease

But another source in terror group insinuates Hamas already taking part in confrontation spurred by targeted killing of Palestinian Islamic Jihad commander
13 November 2019, 7:15 pm  



A Hamas official on Wednesday suggested that if Israel continues to carry out strikes on the Gaza Strip, the terror group would join Palestinian Islamic Jihad in firing rockets at the Jewish state, according to a Fox News report.

“If airstrikes and aggression continue, Hamas and the resistance groups will have to morally respond to and protect the Palestinian people,” the unnamed Hamas official told the US channel.


----------



## Hollie

Actionable intel and precise targeting is thinning the Islamic terrorist herd. 
*


Palestinian death toll in Gaza rises to 24, most of them terrorists
*
Israeli strikes on Palestinian Islamic Jihad targets in the Gaza Strip killed 14 people on Wednesday morning, according to the enclave’s Hamas-run authorities, including at least four members of the Iran-backed terror group and two children, bringing the total death toll there since Tuesday morning to 24.


----------



## Hollie

Aren’t they so cute when they’re paying homage to their masters in Iran with the Islamic terrorist “Death to....” chants, 




*“Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV as terrorists' rockets strike Israel*




Since the early morning, Islamic Jihad terrorists have been firing rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilian targets following Israel's assassination of senior commander of the Islamic Jihad terror organization in Gaza, Baha Abu Al-Ata. The leader of the Iran-backed terror group was responsible for most of the organization's terror activity and planned numerous rocket, sniper, drone, and other attacks against Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Aren’t they so cute when they’re paying homage to their masters in Iran with the Islamic terrorist “Death to....” chants,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *“Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV as terrorists' rockets strike Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the early morning, Islamic Jihad terrorists have been firing rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilian targets following Israel's assassination of senior commander of the Islamic Jihad terror organization in Gaza, Baha Abu Al-Ata. The leader of the Iran-backed terror group was responsible for most of the organization's terror activity and planned numerous rocket, sniper, drone, and other attacks against Israel.


Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and nothing changes.

Gee, that is effective.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aren’t they so cute when they’re paying homage to their masters in Iran with the Islamic terrorist “Death to....” chants,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *“Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV as terrorists' rockets strike Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the early morning, Islamic Jihad terrorists have been firing rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilian targets following Israel's assassination of senior commander of the Islamic Jihad terror organization in Gaza, Baha Abu Al-Ata. The leader of the Iran-backed terror group was responsible for most of the organization's terror activity and planned numerous rocket, sniper, drone, and other attacks against Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and nothing changes.
> 
> Gee, that is effective.
Click to expand...


This is just your usual flaming tirade, absent facts. 

When Islamic terrorists start wars, Islamics die.


----------



## Hollie

Well behaved Islamic terrorists. 



As Islamic Jihad and Israel Battled, Hamas, in a Twist, Sat on the Sidelines


----------



## Hollie

Hero worship of a pious Moslem Islamic Death Cultist by a Pom Pom  flailing cast of fellow Cultists.




*Who would celebrate killing "10 Zionists," "37 Zionists," and "76 (and more)"? | PMW Analysis

Fatah lauds arch-terrorist who planned murder of more than 125 Israelis*

*Abu Jihad "directed the operations against the Zionist enemy... and personally oversaw the planning and execution of the most prominent excellent and special operations, which inflicted heavy losses on the occupying enemy"*
Abbas' Fatah movement as policy glorifies terrorist murderers. One of the means Fatah uses to do this is Facebook, as exposed by Palestinian Media Watch. Fatah's official page has excelled in the praise for murderers in both 2018 and 2019. However, Fatah runs additional pages, among them that of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture, which has also presents murderers as role models, as official policy.


Did everyone know there’s something called the “_Fatah Commission of Information and Culture”?_


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aren’t they so cute when they’re paying homage to their masters in Iran with the Islamic terrorist “Death to....” chants,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *“Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV as terrorists' rockets strike Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the early morning, Islamic Jihad terrorists have been firing rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilian targets following Israel's assassination of senior commander of the Islamic Jihad terror organization in Gaza, Baha Abu Al-Ata. The leader of the Iran-backed terror group was responsible for most of the organization's terror activity and planned numerous rocket, sniper, drone, and other attacks against Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands and nothing changes.
> 
> Gee, that is effective.
Click to expand...


Palestinian terrorist scum are good at hiding behind women and children and nothing changes.


----------



## Hollie

It's just too funny. Another Hamas fashion show replete with islamic terrorist knuckleheads swishing along in military uniforms they save for these media shows.

Hamas holds massive military parade in Gaza


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> It's just too funny. Another Hamas fashion show replete with islamic terrorist knuckleheads swishing along in military uniforms they save for these media shows.
> 
> Hamas holds massive military parade in Gaza


It brings to mind Baghdad Bob announcing all of Saddam's victories over the US military during the first Gulf War.


----------



## Hollie

There's some tough talkin' being delivered by Mr.Habib. 

It's more of the pompous blustering that oozes from the Iranian message boys. 




KHADER HABIB, MEMBER OF ISLAMIC JIHAD LEADERSHIP IN GAZA: IF ZIONISTS DO NOT LEAVE "THE ENTITY," WE WILL SLAUGHTER THEM WITH OUR OWN HANDS

Video:
"Khader Habib, Member of Islamic Jihad Leadership in Gaza: If Zionists Do Not Leave "the Entity," We Will Slaughter Them with Our Own Hands"


----------



## Ropey

Coyote, when it comes, remember that it was the left who taught Arabs to use their children in the furtherance of their political cause and they sure helped to foment the anger on that one side.

You don't remember the cafe and bus suicide bombings, do you?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The latest conflagration, which erupted within hours of the killing of Islamic Jihad senior commander Biha Abu Ata, underscores the crucial differences between Hamas, Gaza’s ultimate ruler, and Islamic Jihad – the second strongest force in the Strip.

Most important are the two terror groups’ divergent strategic objectives, at least since the summer 2014 confrontation between Hamas and Israel – the longest and fiercest round of hostilities over Gaza to date.

While Hamas views the use of violence as a means for increasing the volume of trade with Israel and securing the inflow of Qatari money, both of which enhance the welfare of its hard core and the Gaza population at large, Islamic Jihad seeks fully-fledged confrontation as part of an Iranian strategy to deflect attention from its Syrian military buildup and regional expansion.

(full article online)

https://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/gaza-hamas-islamic-jihad/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Generation after generation of wasted lives since the 7th century CE  ]

Some pro-terror Palestinian media is trying to turn Islamic Jihad terrorist Baha Abu-al Ata's daughter Lian into a poster child for the horrors of Israeli aggression.

Lian was interviewed shortly after her parents were killed by an Israeli airstrike early Monday morning.

She said that they rarely saw her father and he usually didn’t sleep at home because "the occupation" always chased him, and that they always missed him. Monday was her birthday and it was supposed to be a surprise that he is home, and instead of that, he was “martyred” and he took her mother with him too.

(full article online)

Baha Abu al-Ata's daughter upset that no Jews were killed, hopes to rectify that when she grows up ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Those Poor Hamas'istan terrorists. They're stuck between a Koran and a hard place. 

Not having joined the gee-had waged by Islamist gee-had is going to put them in a difficult position with their bosses in Iran. The welfare money heaped on Hamas by the Shia Mullocrats comes with some obvious expectations. The Mullahs want war waged on Israel. Hamas has taken millions of dollars in Shia money but failed to perform their intended task. There will be a downside for Hamas to pay. 

In other news, Israel has been given a look at the strategy that defined tbeir success at throttling the islamic gee-had: "_The heavy casualties PIJ suffered during the two days of fighting also contributed to the terror group’s decision to accept Egypt’s mediation efforts, they said."_


By 'abandoning' PIJ, Hamas risks sparking crisis with Iran - analysis

Arab-Israeli Conflict
17:36 | 11/14/19

BY 'ABANDONING' PIJ, HAMAS RISKS SPARKING CRISIS WITH IRAN - ANALYSIS
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_





Hamas’ failure to join the round of fighting between Israel and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which began after Tuesday’s assassination of PIJ commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata, was one of the main reasons why PIJ agreed to the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, Palestinians said on Thursday.

The heavy casualties PIJ suffered during the two days of fighting also contributed to the terror group’s decision to accept Egypt’s mediation efforts, they said._


----------



## Lipush

Even though they said there's a ceasefire, Islamic Jihad broke it. Another 'Code Red' was heard over south about 10 minutes ago, four missiles were launched, two taken care of by Iron Dome.

Most annoying thing is, that the homefront keeps changing their instructions to civilians and in the south it leaves us very confused.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Lipush said:


> Even though they said there's a ceasefire, Islamic Jihad broke it. Another 'Code Red' was heard over south about 10 minutes ago, four missiles were launched, two taken care of by Iron Dome.
> 
> Most annoying thing is, that the homefront keeps changing their instructions to civilians and in the south it leaves us very confused.


The ceasefire will probably not last through the weekend.  Pij claims Israel agreed to end targeted killings and to stop firing on Arabs in Gaza during the Friday riots but Katz, Israel's FM has said Israel has not agreed to this.


----------



## Lipush

toomuchtime_ said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even though they said there's a ceasefire, Islamic Jihad broke it. Another 'Code Red' was heard over south about 10 minutes ago, four missiles were launched, two taken care of by Iron Dome.
> 
> Most annoying thing is, that the homefront keeps changing their instructions to civilians and in the south it leaves us very confused.
> 
> 
> 
> The ceasefire will probably not last through the weekend.  Pij claims Israel agreed to end targeted killings and to stop firing on Arabs in Gaza during the Friday riots but Katz, Israel's FM has said Israel has not agreed to this.
Click to expand...


We have no idea what conditions they agreed to, since our government doesn't tell us those things for years.

We do know it's not even the question since they (Palestinians) brook the ceasefire they themselves asked for. And they did it not even an hour after it was signed (or so they say).


----------



## toomuchtime_

Lipush said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even though they said there's a ceasefire, Islamic Jihad broke it. Another 'Code Red' was heard over south about 10 minutes ago, four missiles were launched, two taken care of by Iron Dome.
> 
> Most annoying thing is, that the homefront keeps changing their instructions to civilians and in the south it leaves us very confused.
> 
> 
> 
> The ceasefire will probably not last through the weekend.  Pij claims Israel agreed to end targeted killings and to stop firing on Arabs in Gaza during the Friday riots but Katz, Israel's FM has said Israel has not agreed to this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have no idea what conditions they agreed to, since our government doesn't tell us those things for years.
> 
> We do know it's not even the question since they (Palestinians) brook the ceasefire they themselves asked for. And they did it not even an hour after it was signed (or so they say).
Click to expand...

Katz was explicit in stating that Israel did not agree to stop targeted assassinations or to refrain from shooting at violent rioters during the Friday riots so I think that much is reliable, but we don't know if some other agreements was reached although I doubt it.


----------



## Hollie

An interesting development. 

The rule of law with enforceable elements may be visited upon the Islamic terrorist enclave in Gaza. 


Families of Israeli terror victims suing Hamas for half a billion shekels

In precedent, lawsuit also targets 3 Gazan money changers who helped fund terror and have US assets frozen by authorities, meaning any ruling on damages can potentially be enforced

While normally, the chances of compensation actually being paid in similar cases is small, this case could be different since the money changers have bank accounts and other assets in the United States, which have been frozen by authorities under sanctions announced by the Treasury Department. A ruling in favor of the plaintiffs could thus be at least partially enforced due to bilateral agreements between Jerusalem and Washington.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. There is definitely some bad blood brewing between the Hamas terrorists and their more excitable competitors in Pal Islamic gee-had, (PIJ).

No doubt, the PIJ franchise feels betrayed that Hamas never stepped up their game and joined the hostilities that PIJ was initiating.

This could descend into a turf war not unlike the really nasty civil war that Hamas fought with Fatah.





Hamas leaders booted from mourning tent for Islamic Jihad chief killed by Israel

Mahmoud al-Zahar, Ahmed Bahar accosted by PIJ members furious that Hamas didn’t join fight; no protests on Gaza border Friday for only second time since March 2018
15 November 2019, 10:23 pm 





File: Senior Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar giving a press conference in 2008. (Wissam Nassar/Flash90)
Senior Hamas members were twice barred Friday from a mourning tent for a Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror chief whose killing by Israel set off two days of fighting in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I count 35 people killed in the recent fighting in Gaza from Monday through Wednesday. (The Gaza health ministry counts 34, but I have reports of another killed the first day, Mohammed Shakal, not on that list.)

I count 14 who were members of Islamic Jihad Al Quds Brigades, 2 members of the Popular Resistance Committees Nasser Brigades and 3 from Fatah's Al Aqsa Brigades (Update: 1 from Hamas.)

There were 4 human shields - people killed when legitimate targets purposefully stayed near them. 2 of them were brothers of a Hamas terrorist hit in their father's carpenter shop.

One bystander was killed when Israel targeted three Fatah members. The fourth was Al Ata's wife.

In one incident where the IDF bombed a motorcycle I don't have enough information to know what the IDF was targeting. A father and two sons of the Ayyad family were killed. I have suspicions about the older son, Islam Raafat Mohamed Ayyad, 24, an imam who may have been a terrorist based on his funeral shroud showing the Al Aqsa Brigades logo, but that is not conclusive evidence this time - even children were wrapped in various terror flags.

The most infamous incident of the week's conflict was the bombing of the Al Sawarka (Abu Malhous) houses in Deir al Balah, killing eight members of the family. After a day of conflicting reports, the IDF admitted that it thought the house was empty and that it was used for terrorist infrastructure.

Under international law's principle of distinction, a military commander can make his best judgment based on the information available to him at the time as to whether a target is legitimate or not. He doesn't have the luxury of too much time; if he is fed normally-accurate intelligence that the target is empty and used for military purposes, it is enough. This was a true tragedy but it is not a violation of the laws of armed conflict.

Here is the entire list that I put together of the fatalities and circumstances.

(full article online)

Gaza fatality roundup: 35 dead. 20 terrorists. 4 human shields, between 8-11 killed by accident (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

_Zio-bombs_ found targets. 

al-A’al, (hereinafter “al”), was al-A’splodid. 




Hamas military wing says one of its fighters was killed in Gaza flareup

According to the military wing, al-A’al, 23, and two of his teenage brothers were killed in a “Zionist bombardment” on Wednesday.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist clown ensemble was performing again. This time, IJH and Hamas were blustering about their obvious dissatisfaction with the Israeli military responding to Islamic terrorist attacks.

I’m afraid that the rather tepid response from Israel to this latest Islamic terrorist attack leaves Hamas and Islamic gee-had with little reason to halt their next arrack. 


Blamed for Beersheba rocket fire, Hamas says Israel ‘won’t choose timing’ of ops

In a statement Saturday morning, the IDF said Hamas targets hit in the strikes included a military camp and a compound serving the terror group’s naval forces. In addition, underground infrastructure was also hit. No casualties were reported in the strikes.


----------



## Hollie

Some sheetrock, spackle and lots more Islamic terrorist welfare money and its fixed.





A young Palestinian stands amid the crater of a destroyed house following overnight Israeli missile attacks on Thursday east of Khan Younis [Adel Hana/AP Photo]


----------



## Hollie

Shed a tear for Hamas, won’t you?

The Israeli Air Force did some remodeling around Gaza after “unknown” Islamic terrorists fired on Beersheba. 

There seems to be some question as to whether Hamas initiated the attacks or if IJH acted independently. It’s likely that IJH would have acted with prompting and coordination from Iran. If that’s the case, it puts Hamas in a difficult position. If they can’t control the Iranian occupation forces in their midst, they will appear weak and inept by Arab-Moslem nations.

Conflicting claims as to whether Hamas leaders okayed rocket fire at Beersheba


----------



## Hollie

Show of hands, please. 

Who *doesn’t* believe the Iranian Mullocrats in Tehran are doing 
Islamo high-fives seeing their efforts at stoking conflict come to fruition and, BTW, seeing dead Sunni Moslems.


Palestinian death toll climbs to 24 as Israel bombards Gaza for a second day


----------



## Ropey

The Ayatollah will fight Israel to the death of the last Arab and a maude who comes down here will blame Israel...

...for it.

Coyote


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> I count 35 people killed in the recent fighting in Gaza from Monday through Wednesday. (The Gaza health ministry counts 34, but I have reports of another killed the first day, Mohammed Shakal, not on that list.)
> 
> I count 14 who were members of Islamic Jihad Al Quds Brigades, 2 members of the Popular Resistance Committees Nasser Brigades and 3 from Fatah's Al Aqsa Brigades (Update: 1 from Hamas.)
> 
> There were 4 human shields - people killed when legitimate targets purposefully stayed near them. 2 of them were brothers of a Hamas terrorist hit in their father's carpenter shop.
> 
> One bystander was killed when Israel targeted three Fatah members. The fourth was Al Ata's wife.
> 
> In one incident where the IDF bombed a motorcycle I don't have enough information to know what the IDF was targeting. A father and two sons of the Ayyad family were killed. I have suspicions about the older son, Islam Raafat Mohamed Ayyad, 24, an imam who may have been a terrorist based on his funeral shroud showing the Al Aqsa Brigades logo, but that is not conclusive evidence this time - even children were wrapped in various terror flags.
> 
> The most infamous incident of the week's conflict was the bombing of the Al Sawarka (Abu Malhous) houses in Deir al Balah, killing eight members of the family. After a day of conflicting reports, the IDF admitted that it thought the house was empty and that it was used for terrorist infrastructure.
> 
> Under international law's principle of distinction, a military commander can make his best judgment based on the information available to him at the time as to whether a target is legitimate or not. He doesn't have the luxury of too much time; if he is fed normally-accurate intelligence that the target is empty and used for military purposes, it is enough. This was a true tragedy but it is not a violation of the laws of armed conflict.
> 
> Here is the entire list that I put together of the fatalities and circumstances.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza fatality roundup: 35 dead. 20 terrorists. 4 human shields, between 8-11 killed by accident (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Civilians (all Palestinians are civilians) are only considered militants when they are *actively* engages in armed hostilities. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids, or at an unarmed protest they are considered civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I count 35 people killed in the recent fighting in Gaza from Monday through Wednesday. (The Gaza health ministry counts 34, but I have reports of another killed the first day, Mohammed Shakal, not on that list.)
> 
> I count 14 who were members of Islamic Jihad Al Quds Brigades, 2 members of the Popular Resistance Committees Nasser Brigades and 3 from Fatah's Al Aqsa Brigades (Update: 1 from Hamas.)
> 
> There were 4 human shields - people killed when legitimate targets purposefully stayed near them. 2 of them were brothers of a Hamas terrorist hit in their father's carpenter shop.
> 
> One bystander was killed when Israel targeted three Fatah members. The fourth was Al Ata's wife.
> 
> In one incident where the IDF bombed a motorcycle I don't have enough information to know what the IDF was targeting. A father and two sons of the Ayyad family were killed. I have suspicions about the older son, Islam Raafat Mohamed Ayyad, 24, an imam who may have been a terrorist based on his funeral shroud showing the Al Aqsa Brigades logo, but that is not conclusive evidence this time - even children were wrapped in various terror flags.
> 
> The most infamous incident of the week's conflict was the bombing of the Al Sawarka (Abu Malhous) houses in Deir al Balah, killing eight members of the family. After a day of conflicting reports, the IDF admitted that it thought the house was empty and that it was used for terrorist infrastructure.
> 
> Under international law's principle of distinction, a military commander can make his best judgment based on the information available to him at the time as to whether a target is legitimate or not. He doesn't have the luxury of too much time; if he is fed normally-accurate intelligence that the target is empty and used for military purposes, it is enough. This was a true tragedy but it is not a violation of the laws of armed conflict.
> 
> Here is the entire list that I put together of the fatalities and circumstances.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza fatality roundup: 35 dead. 20 terrorists. 4 human shields, between 8-11 killed by accident (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Civilians (all Palestinians are civilians) are only considered militants when they are *actively* engages in armed hostilities. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids, or at an unarmed protest they are considered civilians.
Click to expand...


Make it up as you go.


----------



## Hollie

It’s so cute when the islamo-delinquents can play nice together.

I suspect that the Iranian Mullahs had to step in and told their lackeys to pose for a photo op or there would be consequences. 



Hamas, Islamic Jihad put on show of reconciliation after clash at mourning tent

Day after PIJ members accost previous delegation, furious that Hamas didn’t join fighting, rival terror group leaders meet and vow ‘unity in war against Israel’
Today, 10:25 pm  0






The Gaza leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad on Saturday put on a display of reconciliation, after senior Hamas members were twice barred Friday from a mourning tent for a Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist whose killing by Israel set off two days of fighting in the Gaza Strip.




Interesting that the Islamic terrorist franchises are reading from the Iranian script, something about “unity in war against Israel’.

Curious, but I didn’t read about the announcement of war. If that’s the case, I’m sure we’ll soon see Hamas flunkies in the military uniforms they reserve for their silly fashion show parades. I guess we’ll also see Hamas busing in women and children to the war zone. You can't have a war with Islamic Terrorists without islamo-human shields.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I count 35 people killed in the recent fighting in Gaza from Monday through Wednesday. (The Gaza health ministry counts 34, but I have reports of another killed the first day, Mohammed Shakal, not on that list.)
> 
> I count 14 who were members of Islamic Jihad Al Quds Brigades, 2 members of the Popular Resistance Committees Nasser Brigades and 3 from Fatah's Al Aqsa Brigades (Update: 1 from Hamas.)
> 
> There were 4 human shields - people killed when legitimate targets purposefully stayed near them. 2 of them were brothers of a Hamas terrorist hit in their father's carpenter shop.
> 
> One bystander was killed when Israel targeted three Fatah members. The fourth was Al Ata's wife.
> 
> In one incident where the IDF bombed a motorcycle I don't have enough information to know what the IDF was targeting. A father and two sons of the Ayyad family were killed. I have suspicions about the older son, Islam Raafat Mohamed Ayyad, 24, an imam who may have been a terrorist based on his funeral shroud showing the Al Aqsa Brigades logo, but that is not conclusive evidence this time - even children were wrapped in various terror flags.
> 
> The most infamous incident of the week's conflict was the bombing of the Al Sawarka (Abu Malhous) houses in Deir al Balah, killing eight members of the family. After a day of conflicting reports, the IDF admitted that it thought the house was empty and that it was used for terrorist infrastructure.
> 
> Under international law's principle of distinction, a military commander can make his best judgment based on the information available to him at the time as to whether a target is legitimate or not. He doesn't have the luxury of too much time; if he is fed normally-accurate intelligence that the target is empty and used for military purposes, it is enough. This was a true tragedy but it is not a violation of the laws of armed conflict.
> 
> Here is the entire list that I put together of the fatalities and circumstances.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza fatality roundup: 35 dead. 20 terrorists. 4 human shields, between 8-11 killed by accident (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Civilians (all Palestinians are civilians) are only considered militants when they are *actively* engages in armed hostilities. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids, or at an unarmed protest they are considered civilians.
Click to expand...


*Civilians (all Palestinians are civilians) are only considered militants when they are actively engages in armed hostilities. *

A Palestinian terrorist is a terrorist even when he is sleeping at home with his wife and kids.


----------



## Hollie

Definitely some hurt feelings to be addressed. 




Hamas official attacked when paying visit to slain PIJ commander's family

Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) supporters on Friday expelled senior Hamas official Mahmoud Zahar from the home of the family of slain PIJ commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata in the Shajaiyeh neighborhood of Gaza City.

The incident occurred when Zahar arrived to offer condolences to the family over the death of al-Ata, who was assassinated last week by Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I count 35 people killed in the recent fighting in Gaza from Monday through Wednesday. (The Gaza health ministry counts 34, but I have reports of another killed the first day, Mohammed Shakal, not on that list.)
> 
> I count 14 who were members of Islamic Jihad Al Quds Brigades, 2 members of the Popular Resistance Committees Nasser Brigades and 3 from Fatah's Al Aqsa Brigades (Update: 1 from Hamas.)
> 
> There were 4 human shields - people killed when legitimate targets purposefully stayed near them. 2 of them were brothers of a Hamas terrorist hit in their father's carpenter shop.
> 
> One bystander was killed when Israel targeted three Fatah members. The fourth was Al Ata's wife.
> 
> In one incident where the IDF bombed a motorcycle I don't have enough information to know what the IDF was targeting. A father and two sons of the Ayyad family were killed. I have suspicions about the older son, Islam Raafat Mohamed Ayyad, 24, an imam who may have been a terrorist based on his funeral shroud showing the Al Aqsa Brigades logo, but that is not conclusive evidence this time - even children were wrapped in various terror flags.
> 
> The most infamous incident of the week's conflict was the bombing of the Al Sawarka (Abu Malhous) houses in Deir al Balah, killing eight members of the family. After a day of conflicting reports, the IDF admitted that it thought the house was empty and that it was used for terrorist infrastructure.
> 
> Under international law's principle of distinction, a military commander can make his best judgment based on the information available to him at the time as to whether a target is legitimate or not. He doesn't have the luxury of too much time; if he is fed normally-accurate intelligence that the target is empty and used for military purposes, it is enough. This was a true tragedy but it is not a violation of the laws of armed conflict.
> 
> Here is the entire list that I put together of the fatalities and circumstances.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza fatality roundup: 35 dead. 20 terrorists. 4 human shields, between 8-11 killed by accident (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Civilians (all Palestinians are civilians) are only considered militants when they are *actively* engages in armed hostilities. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids, or at an unarmed protest they are considered civilians.
Click to expand...


Unarmed protest?  First of all, knives, grenades, and Molotov cocktails are weapons or "arms."  Secondly, they try to break the fence to charge into Israel proper, with the stated intention of killing Israeli civilians.  Israel has a right to protect her sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. There’s trouble in Islamic-paradise. Islamist gee-had is dealing with hurt feelings because Hamas didn’t offer up enough martyrs (aka currently not breathing Islamic terrorists), as a part of the gee-had directed at Israel. 

As you might expect, stone throwing was the appropriate response. 




Senior Hamas officials were accosted by Islamic Jihad supporters when they tried to visit a mourning tent for Baha Abu al-Ata, the assassinated Jihad commander. Some Jihad supporters threw stones at the Hamas leaders’ cars. 

Palestinian militant groups come to blows over Israel diplomacy







Might I suggest that a first step toward reconciliation begin with some joint tire burning gee-had exercises? That seems to   work as a soothing balm and helps the islamo-fellows focus.


----------



## Mindful

Jordanian TV Host Rana Hmouz: We Want to Gouge out the Eyes of the Zionists and Their Supporters; We Want to Trample Israel, the Peace Agreement Underfoot


----------



## Hollie

Going after the funding of Islamic terrorism. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” are funded by Islamic terrorist organizations masquerading as “human rights organizations”. 




Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit

“With this lawsuit, we’re exposing the link between organizations masquerading as human rights organizations, but who use donations to advance the campaign of terror against Israel including through BDS [The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement], perpetrated by terror organizations like HAMAS and supported by U.S. charities,” KKL-JNF world Chairman Daniel Atar said.


----------



## Hollie

What is it with Islamic terrorists and finger pointing?

Anyway, there’s the usual islamo-bluster from the Emir of Sinwar’istan, something connected to crushing Tel Aviv. 

These knuckleheads can’t seem to find a way to pay their electric bill but have lots of welfare money available to spend on weapons. 

It’s so cute that they use children as a symbol of war and Islam’s gee-had.
*



HAMAS LEADER: WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF TRAPS, WE WILL CRUSH TEL AVIV*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Going after the funding of Islamic terrorism. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” are funded by Islamic terrorist organizations masquerading as “human rights organizations”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> “With this lawsuit, we’re exposing the link between organizations masquerading as human rights organizations, but who use donations to advance the campaign of terror against Israel including through BDS [The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement], perpetrated by terror organizations like HAMAS and supported by U.S. charities,” KKL-JNF world Chairman Daniel Atar said.


I have heard those allegations before, but only from Israeli propaganda organizations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going after the funding of Islamic terrorism. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” are funded by Islamic terrorist organizations masquerading as “human rights organizations”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> “With this lawsuit, we’re exposing the link between organizations masquerading as human rights organizations, but who use donations to advance the campaign of terror against Israel including through BDS [The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement], perpetrated by terror organizations like HAMAS and supported by U.S. charities,” KKL-JNF world Chairman Daniel Atar said.
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard those allegations before, but only from Israeli propaganda organizations.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going after the funding of Islamic terrorism. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” are funded by Islamic terrorist organizations masquerading as “human rights organizations”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> “With this lawsuit, we’re exposing the link between organizations masquerading as human rights organizations, but who use donations to advance the campaign of terror against Israel including through BDS [The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement], perpetrated by terror organizations like HAMAS and supported by U.S. charities,” KKL-JNF world Chairman Daniel Atar said.
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard those allegations before, but only from Israeli propaganda organizations.
Click to expand...


The Arab propaganda organizations aren't going to admit that.


----------



## Hollie

I have to believe that the Iranian occupation forces (Hamas and PIJ), having phone conversations is the result of the Iranian Mullocrats barking out orders to their minions. Iran has boatloads of cash that is used to steer their occupation forces and neither Hamas nor PIJ is going to be allowed any disobedience to their masters in Iran. 



Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh held a phone conversation on Saturday night with Palestinian Islamic Jihad [PIJ] leader Ziaad Nahla, the conversation took place before Hamas fired rockets at Israel during Saturday night, Ynet reported. 


Haniyeh expressed his condolences over the death of former PIJ leader Bahaa Abu al-Ata, the two men agreed to increase cooperation between their respective groups.


----------



## Hollie

Ethics panel extends probe into Tlaib, says she likely misused campaign funds

The House Ethics Committee on Thursday released a report recommending further investigation of Rep. Rashida Tlaib(D-Mich.), citing "substantial reason to believe" that she misused campaign funds.

The report focuses on payments received by Tlaib from her campaign after the Nov. 6, 2018, election, but before she assumed her House seat.


----------



## Hollie

*The inhumanity of Hamas' human shields*






The inhumanity of Hamas’ human shields


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - Fashion Mavens. 




Israel and Hamas against PIJ









The recent clash in the Gaza Strip was not like earlier ones there because it was only between Israel and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and Hamas was not really involved. This could be a model for the future in which Israel might strike the PIJ while Hamas again stays out of the fight.


----------



## Hollie

Life lessons from the the Islamic Death Cult.



MOTHER OF PALESTINIAN “MARTYR”: ALL PALESTINIAN MOTHERS SHOULD URGE THEIR CHILDREN TO WAGE JIHAD; DEATH IS INEVITABLE, SO WHY NOT DIE AS MARTYRS?

"Mother of Palestinian “Martyr”: All Palestinian Mothers Should Urge Their Children to Wage Jihad; Death Is Inevitable, So Why Not Die as Martyrs?"


----------



## Hollie

I suppose that by heaping praise on the relative no-shows (Hamas), in the last skirmish, the Iranians are trying to put the best spin they can on the drubbing that PIJ took. 


Iranian Foreign Minister speaks with Hamas leader Haniyeh


20:26 | 11/18/19

IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SPEAKS WITH HAMAS LEADER HANIYEH
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF

_ Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif spoke to Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and congratulated him for "defeating Israel in the last wave of fighting," Ynet reported on Monday._


----------



## Hollie

As we see with the latest Hudna, the pause in war is just an opportunity for the Islamic terrorists to re-arm. 





Hamas and Islamic Jihad vow to deepen civilian and military cooperation

https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/11...-to-deepen-civilian-and-military-cooperation/

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh: "This round of fighting is over, but the war is not. Our victory in the latest round wasn't determined by the number of rockets launched, but by the paralysis of Israel during the escalation." Palestinian Islamic Jihad warns PM Netanyahu against violating ceasefire understandings.


----------



## Hollie

A girl appears from the window of a car driving along the beach in Gaza City




Those "Poor, Oppressed Pal'istanians"

International welfare buys a lot of luxury.


----------



## Hollie

Basically, the promotion of suicide, self-destruction and mass murder is the goal of the cult. 

It's unfortunate that these reprehensible Cultists / isla ic terrorist psychopaths are a part of a breeding program.  They are raised to believe that the infliction of suffering will get them carnal rewards in the afterlife. Children are bred for the purpose of becoming human high explosives/sacrificial entities … I mean _martyrs_ to throw onto Muhammuds' bonfire of hatred.




*Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers*

Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers | PMW Analysis

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 19, 2019

*“The cause” of terrorist murderers is “official PA media’s center of focus*
*Head of PA media met with 5 released murderers: “Our Martyrs and heroic prisoners' sacrifices are medals of honor for our people and our Arab nation”*
The Palestinian Authority stresses its support for terrorist murderers of Israelis in numerous ways. 

One of the significant ways the PA expresses this support to the Palestinian population, as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, is - under instructions from PA Chairman Abbas - to highlight the terrorist prisoners and “Martyrs” as heroes in the official media.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Besides the antisemitism and hate that we have documented over the years from UNRWA teachers and UNRWA curricula, one thing is certain. every single one of these 2.5 million children were taught that Israel is an illegitimate state and that those kids will one day rise up and "return" as they kick the Jews into the sea, whether literally or metaphorically.

UNRWA proudly says it teaches peace and coexistence. But it does not teach peace and coexistence with Israel.

UNRWA students never heard of the Holocaust from their schoolteachers - the few times UNRWA half-heartedly said it would be taught the uproar was immediate and UNRWA threw up its hands and said, sorry, we can't.

(full article online)

2.5 million people brainwashed by @UNRWA ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza may need to ask Tehran for more welfare money. 




Lawsuit Targets Hamas Money Changers for Damages | Hamodia.com

The Israel Law Center (Shurat Hadin) on Sunday filed a lawsuit demanding damages in the amount of NIS 500 million against Hamas – and against three money-changers in Yerushalayim, whose services the terror group used to collect money for use in terror attacks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Basically, the promotion of suicide, self-destruction and mass murder is the goal of the cult.
> 
> It's unfortunate that these reprehensible Cultists / isla ic terrorist psychopaths are a part of a breeding program.  They are raised to believe that the infliction of suffering will get them carnal rewards in the afterlife. Children are bred for the purpose of becoming human high explosives/sacrificial entities … I mean _martyrs_ to throw onto Muhammuds' bonfire of hatred.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers*
> 
> Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers | PMW Analysis
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 19, 2019
> 
> *“The cause” of terrorist murderers is “official PA media’s center of focus*
> *Head of PA media met with 5 released murderers: “Our Martyrs and heroic prisoners' sacrifices are medals of honor for our people and our Arab nation”*
> The Palestinian Authority stresses its support for terrorist murderers of Israelis in numerous ways.
> 
> One of the significant ways the PA expresses this support to the Palestinian population, as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, is - under instructions from PA Chairman Abbas - to highlight the terrorist prisoners and “Martyrs” as heroes in the official media.


Another misquote from an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza may need to ask Tehran for more welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawsuit Targets Hamas Money Changers for Damages | Hamodia.com
> 
> The Israel Law Center (Shurat Hadin) on Sunday filed a lawsuit demanding damages in the amount of NIS 500 million against Hamas – and against three money-changers in Yerushalayim, whose services the terror group used to collect money for use in terror attacks.


Grasping at straws.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,


P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, the promotion of suicide, self-destruction and mass murder is the goal of the cult.
> 
> 
> 
> Another misquote from an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...

*(QUESTION)*

I'm confused...  What exactly is it that you take issue with and challenge?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, the promotion of suicide, self-destruction and mass murder is the goal of the cult.
> 
> It's unfortunate that these reprehensible Cultists / isla ic terrorist psychopaths are a part of a breeding program.  They are raised to believe that the infliction of suffering will get them carnal rewards in the afterlife. Children are bred for the purpose of becoming human high explosives/sacrificial entities … I mean _martyrs_ to throw onto Muhammuds' bonfire of hatred.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers*
> 
> Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers | PMW Analysis
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 19, 2019
> 
> *“The cause” of terrorist murderers is “official PA media’s center of focus*
> *Head of PA media met with 5 released murderers: “Our Martyrs and heroic prisoners' sacrifices are medals of honor for our people and our Arab nation”*
> The Palestinian Authority stresses its support for terrorist murderers of Israelis in numerous ways.
> 
> One of the significant ways the PA expresses this support to the Palestinian population, as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, is - under instructions from PA Chairman Abbas - to highlight the terrorist prisoners and “Martyrs” as heroes in the official media.
> 
> 
> 
> Another misquote from an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza may need to ask Tehran for more welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawsuit Targets Hamas Money Changers for Damages | Hamodia.com
> 
> The Israel Law Center (Shurat Hadin) on Sunday filed a lawsuit demanding damages in the amount of NIS 500 million against Hamas – and against three money-changers in Yerushalayim, whose services the terror group used to collect money for use in terror attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
Click to expand...


I’m afraid this is another of your one-liners that doesn’t address the topic. 

What does “grasping at straws” mean?


----------



## Hollie

It’s quite a contentious relationship between the two, competing, Iranian occupation forces in Gaza. While PIJ is apparently flush with Iranian cash (and ideology), it’s Hamas that becomes the more visible target when Israel retaliates for Islamic terrorist attacks. 

While they’re trying to put on a public face of cooperation, I suspect it wouldn’t take much for these angry Islamics to launch into a vicious tribal war of attrition. 



Understandings between Israel, Hamas jilt Islamic Jihad








Islamic terrorist fashion show.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, the promotion of suicide, self-destruction and mass murder is the goal of the cult.
> 
> 
> 
> Another misquote from an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> I'm confused...  What exactly is it that you take issue with and challenge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I'm confused.


Indeed, why the misquote?


----------



## Hollie

It seems Mahmoud is hoping to rouse the rabal with a call to gee-had. It seems pretty standard behaviour for the Arabs-Moslems.  Any perceive slight to their tender sensibilities is addressed by "calls to violence".   
*



Is the PA considering violence in response to US recognition that Israeli settlements are "not inconsistent with international law"?
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 20, 2019

*PA “demands” Palestinians “everywhere, act” to “thwart the [American-Israeli] plot to eliminate the Palestinian cause” *
*At October conference, Fatah officials called for “resistance,” Palestinians must “benefit from experience” of past PA terror campaign *


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. I sure hope Mahmoud can keep up the payments on his presidential jet.  




NETHERLANDS CUTS AID TO PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY OVER TERRORIST SALARIES
By CNAAN LIPHSHIZ/JTA
_




_

_The country had given about $1.6 million directly to the Palestinian Authority annually to pay the salaries of justice ministry employees.

The Dutch government has cut funding for the Palestinian Authority over its salaries to terrorists serving time in Israeli jails.

Netherlands cuts aid to Palestinian Authority over terrorist salaries







.




_


----------



## Hollie

Celebrating an Egyptian islamic terrorist who was little more than a thief and a fraud might seem counterproductive but keep in mind, we're dealing with the alternate reality of Arab-Moslem'ism. 


*Fatah puts bullet into logo to celebrate Arafat's terror legacy*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 22, 2019

Fatah puts bullet into logo to celebrate Arafat's terror legacy | PMW Analysis

*Abbas: Palestinians are "still continuing the path” of Arafat and terrorist murderers - “heroic Martyrs who sacrificed for Allah and for the liberation of Palestine” *

On the anniversary of the death of former PA Chairman Yasser Arafat, the Fatah Movement once again revealed the essence of its character and emphasized the movement’s adherence to Arafat’s legacy of violence and terror.

On its official Facebook page, Fatah posted an image with a logo for the 15th anniversary of Arafat’s death. The logo (marked by red circle below) displays the number “15” with a bullet as the digit “1”.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Abbas: Palestinians are "still continuing the path” of Arafat and terrorist murderers - “heroic Martyrs who sacrificed for Allah and for the liberation of Palestine”*

(full article online)

Fatah puts bullet into logo to celebrate Arafat's terror legacy | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

It seems Hamas has found the cost of doing gee-had to be too much. 



“For these reasons, the return marches were canceled today,” says a Ma’an headline on Friday morning, the “return marches” being the Hamas-financed gathering of unemployed Gazans to storm the border fence with Israel, which has been a regular Friday feature since before Passover of 2018.

Using mostly Reuters copy, Ma’an explains that the protests along the Gaza Strip’s border with Israel have been canceled for the second week in a row, following reports that “Israel will violate the terms of the ceasefire concluded in the last round,” and will be shooting demonstrators at the border, which in turn would prompt Islamic Jihad to respond and lead to a new confrontation.

IDF Deterrence Revived: Hamas Nixes Fence Riots


----------



## Hollie

Tehran winning Arab-Moslem hearts and minds. 

In the alternate reality of Arab-Moslem’dom, the population appears to prefer the Shia Iranian sponsored holy warrior waging gee-had vs. the home grown Islamic terrorist who sits out the fight. 

Hamas my want to organize another fashion parade to boost their popularity. 




A well-known analyst and commentator from the Gaza Strip says the popularity of Hamas, the Palestinian enclave’s ruler, has dropped since it sat out fighting this month between Islamic Jihad and Israel.

"Hamas has been heavily criticized by the Palestinian street due to its absence from the scene,” Mohammed Hijazi told The Media Line.

Analyst: Hamas down in popularity after it sits out fight with Israel


----------



## Hollie

Taming the gee-had’ist beast.


----------



## Hollie

Good morning from Gaza’istan. A decades old Islamic terrorist enclave that exists on a UN funded welfare scam.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  et al,

I often ask, as many others do:

When did the Israelis take control of a sovereignty from the Arab Palestinians?
There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!
When were the Arab Palestinians a party to a conflict with Israel?



Hollie said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The commentary by the Palestinian President, the President of Area "A" → Mahmood Abbas, merely reaffirms that the Arab Palestinians, with the assistance of the many donor countries, provide material support to Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> I often ask, as many others do:
> 
> When did the Israelis take control of a sovereignty from the Arab Palestinians?
> There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!
> When were the Arab Palestinians a party to a conflict with Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The commentary by the Palestinian President, the President of Area "A" → Mahmood Abbas, merely reaffirms that the Arab Palestinians, with the assistance of the many donor countries, provide material support to Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!


A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> I often ask, as many others do:
> 
> When did the Israelis take control of a sovereignty from the Arab Palestinians?
> There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!
> When were the Arab Palestinians a party to a conflict with Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The commentary by the Palestinian President, the President of Area "A" → Mahmood Abbas, merely reaffirms that the Arab Palestinians, with the assistance of the many donor countries, provide material support to Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
Click to expand...

*A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation.*

A country does not suddenly exist when some gay Egyptian dude decides it exists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> I often ask, as many others do:
> 
> When did the Israelis take control of a sovereignty from the Arab Palestinians?
> There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!
> When were the Arab Palestinians a party to a conflict with Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The commentary by the Palestinian President, the President of Area "A" → Mahmood Abbas, merely reaffirms that the Arab Palestinians, with the assistance of the many donor countries, provide material support to Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a peace treaty that includes the coverage of both the Gaza Strip _(previously under the control of the Egyptians)_ and West Bank _(plus Jerusalem)(previously under the control of theJordanians)_, territory never under the control of an Arab Palestinian Government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
Click to expand...


What country are you referring to? 

Could it be the “country of Pal’istan” (_Where Dreams come True_™️) that you insist was created by the Treaty of Lausanne?

Can you identify where in the Treaty of Lausanne the “country of Pal’istan” is identified?


----------



## Hollie

There are times when I’m nearly convinced that there are people among us who live in some alternate reality. The Officer-in-Charge of UNRWA (whose predecessor was being investigated for some rather unsavory activities), was before the microphone pleading for more of the world’s Islamic terrorist maintenance money. 

UNRWA appeals for financial and political support at the General Assembly’s Fourth Committee - PNN

_“Addressing United Nations Member States present at the meeting, Mr. Saunders described the extraordinary circumstances in which UNRWA continues to operate, focusing on the financial and political challenges it faces, and presented the Agency’s outlook for the period ahead.”


_
Why yes, “extraordinary” clearly defines an expectation that the planet has a responsibility to fund an Islamic terrorist entitlement. So, let’s think this through, Mr. Saunders. You want welfare money to fund a bloated agency whose head, Pierre Krähenbühl, recently stepped aside, seemingly as a way to avoid possible criminal charges so the planet can fund Islamic terrorism, fraud and mismanagement by these knuckledraggers?

Abbas Vows to Keep Paying Palestinian Terrorists, Says 'Millions of Fighters' Will One Day Overrun Jerusalem


----------



## Hollie

The Rock Throwing Gee-Had.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is only half true, and when the half that is true is actually reality, it may not be a permanent condition.  All things political have the possibility of change.


When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ _(permanent court of international justice)_ held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements



P F Tinmore said:


> A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

Occupation is not an evil political-civil or military condition.  Nor is occupation - anti-self-determination.   Occupation, as we use it here in these discussions, is territory under the authority of the non-indigenous power that establishes control. 

◈  When Country "A" is totally occupied under the effective control of Country "B;" then the government of Country "A" is in name only.  Country "A" has no functional control over the territory.  At that point the fate of Country "A" is in the hands of Country "B."

◈  When a territory is abandon by its sovereign and political authority (A) into the hands of another sovereign and political authority (B), "B" becomes assumes ultimate _(civil, political, and military)_ power in the territory. ​


P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

Correct: Occupations *do not* "acquire sovereignty."  But it is a first set towards establishing sovereignty over a territory.  Without control over the territory, Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention is NOT fulfilled. 

The Arab Palestinian cannot be superglued to the past and to a fantasy that was never true if it is to achieve independence of their own.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is only half true, and when the half that is true is actually reality, it may not be a permanent condition.  All things political have the possibility of change.
> 
> 
> When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ _(permanent court of international justice)_ held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Occupation is not an evil political-civil or military condition.  Nor is occupation - anti-self-determination.   Occupation, as we use it here in these discussions, is territory under the authority of the non-indigenous power that establishes control.
> 
> ◈  When Country "A" is totally occupied under the effective control of Country "B;" then the government of Country "A" is in name only.  Country "A" has no functional control over the territory.  At that point the fate of Country "A" is in the hands of Country "B."
> 
> ◈  When a territory is abandon by its sovereign and political authority (A) into the hands of another sovereign and political authority (B), "B" becomes assumes ultimate _(civil, political, and military)_ power in the territory.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Correct: Occupations *do not* "acquire sovereignty."  But it is a first set towards establishing sovereignty over a territory.  Without control over the territory, Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention is NOT fulfilled.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian cannot be superglued to the past and to a fantasy that was never true if it is to achieve independence of their own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Occupation, as we use it here in these discussions, is territory under the authority of the non-indigenous power that establishes control.


Indeed, it is a non self governing territory as stated in UN resolutions.

Palestine went from occupation to mandate to foreign colonial rule. None of these can acquire sovereignty. It is always military control.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is only half true, and when the half that is true is actually reality, it may not be a permanent condition.  All things political have the possibility of change.
> 
> 
> When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ _(permanent court of international justice)_ held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A country does not cease to exist when it is under occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Occupation is not an evil political-civil or military condition.  Nor is occupation - anti-self-determination.   Occupation, as we use it here in these discussions, is territory under the authority of the non-indigenous power that establishes control.
> 
> ◈  When Country "A" is totally occupied under the effective control of Country "B;" then the government of Country "A" is in name only.  Country "A" has no functional control over the territory.  At that point the fate of Country "A" is in the hands of Country "B."
> 
> ◈  When a territory is abandon by its sovereign and political authority (A) into the hands of another sovereign and political authority (B), "B" becomes assumes ultimate _(civil, political, and military)_ power in the territory.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Correct: Occupations *do not* "acquire sovereignty."  But it is a first set towards establishing sovereignty over a territory.  Without control over the territory, Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention is NOT fulfilled.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian cannot be superglued to the past and to a fantasy that was never true if it is to achieve independence of their own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation, as we use it here in these discussions, is territory under the authority of the non-indigenous power that establishes control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, it is a non self governing territory as stated in UN resolutions.
> 
> Palestine went from occupation to mandate to foreign colonial rule. None of these can acquire sovereignty. It is always military control.
Click to expand...


Indeed, a non self governing territory?

Indeed, that conflicts with the “country of Pal’istan” narrative. 

Indeed, are we to believe that the “country of Pal’istan” was under occupation during the time of the Ottoman Caliphate?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a statement that you know is false AND inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive other readers.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation, as we use it here in these discussions, is territory under the authority of the non-indigenous power that establishes control.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is a non self governing territory as stated in UN resolutions.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

OK, This has been discussed at least once a year for the last five years, with the last mention THIS MONTH on *9 November 2019 in Posting 12946*.  So I know that you have been shown those results of The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples is also known as the Special Committee on Decolonization, or C-24 regarding the Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs) and the latest *LIST OF NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES BY REGION* going back more than five years.  In case you don't remember the discussions here are a few of them for you.


*Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism*
...Mandate; there was no Israel. The Non-Self-Governing Territories (_NSGT_s) n February 1948, would have been the entirety of the territory...
Post by: RoccoR, Jan 25, 2018 in forum: Israel and Palestine



Post
*Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
...• Article 73e, DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES (_NSGT_), neither Israel or Arab Palestine are listed as a Colonial Nation...
Post by: RoccoR, Oct 16, 2019 in forum: Israel and Palestine



Post
*Who are the Israelis?*
...be very interested in any UN Resolution (enforceable or otherwise) identifying Israel as an Administrator of a C-24 _NSGT_. Most Respectfully, R
Post by: RoccoR, May 21, 2019 in forum: Israel and Palestine



Post
*Newly Elected Muslim Congresswomen Favor Eliminating Israel*
RE: Newly Elected Muslim Congresswomen Favor Eliminating Israel ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al, More misinformation... (COMMENT) I challenge anyone to...
Post by: RoccoR, Aug 30, 2019 in forum: Israel and Palestine



Post
*Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
...East that is currently listed as a Non-Self-Governing Territory (_NSGT_); subject to the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial...
Post by: RoccoR, Oct 17, 2017 in forum: Israel and Palestine



Post
*Call Apartheid in Israel by Its Name*
...Committee 24 says what it says: They don't consider Palestine a _NSGT_. The Resolution you cite does not actually say that Palestine is state...
Post by: RoccoR, Mar 6, 2016 in forum: Israel and Palestine



Post
*Civilians vs Combatents*
...in 1950; a Provincial Government that is autonomous. It is not a _NSGT_. While there are three General Assembly Resolutions on the Question of...
Post by: RoccoR, Jun 9, 2016 in forum: Israel and Palestine



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine went from occupation to mandate to foreign colonial rule. None of these can acquire sovereignty. It is always military control.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, let's be a bit more specific.

•  Prior to 1918, the territories were under Ottoman Sovereignty.
•  Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
•  Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
•  In 1948 - 1949, the territories were involved in a International Armed Conflict (IAC).
•  In 1949, the West Bank (including portions of Jerusalem) came under the occupation (and later annexation) of Jordan.
•  In 1949, the Gaza Strip came under the occupation (and later Military Governorship) of Egypt.
•  In 1967, the Gaza Strip became Occupied Egyptian Territory.
•  In 1967, the West Bank became Occupied Jordanian Territory under Israeli control.
•  In 1988, the Kingdom of Jordan abandon the West Bank into the hands of the Israelis.
•  In 1979, the Egyptians and the Israelis became enjoined in a Peace Treaty without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip (then under control of Israel).
•  In 1993 Oslo I - Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements went into effect.
•  In 1994, the Jordanians and the Israelis became enjoined in a Peace Treaty without prejudice to the issue of the status of the West Bank and Jerusalem (then under control of Israel).
•  In 1995, Oslo II - Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip went into effect.​
As you can see, yet one more time, there was NO COLONIAL RULE anywhere in the territories in dispute.  Certainly, the Arab Palestinians were not under any kind of Colonial Rule since the Armistice of Mudros (1918) and the present day.  Since the establishment of Israel in the territories to which the Mandate once applied, the intent of territorial control was for defensive purposes; not with the intention of preventing the Arab Palestinians from realizing the self-sufficiency.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.


OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...


That cut and paste snippet, cut and pasted dozens of times has been addressed dozens of times.


----------



## Hollie

There’s an opinion piece in ynet that looks at the Hamas / PIJ / Iran connections and where that may eventually lead. One of the statements is that Hamas must decide on loyalties and basically, where their alignment with Iran will lead. 

It seems that Hamas has already announced their intentions. Their meetings with the Iranian Mullocrat-in-charge and their gushing praise for Iranian money and weapons makes it clear that they have separated themselves from their “Arab’ism” and the Sunni / Salafi mainstream. An attempt by Hamas to backtrack from the goals and ideology of Iran and PIJ could lead to a fierce and very bloody civil war with Hamas vs. Iran and their proxy army of PIJ.  



Gaza's Hamas rulers must choose between Iran and their own people

It is likely that the confrontation between the two Gaza-based terror groups was about the force of those rocket attacks.

Hamas, it seemed, intended the rocket fire to target border line communities only, while Islamic Jihad demanded massive attacks be launched further afield, which could have caused a deterioration into all-out war. 

Hence the Israeli security establishment's decision to put the center of the country, including Tel Aviv, on high alert.

While the Gaza rulers demanded their smaller partners adhere to their demands, Islamic Jihad opted to ignore them.

This was not a tactical disagreement. It was a massive rift that forced into the open a new-old factor which had become more and more dominant – Iran.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
_•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_

Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself." 




◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)

(1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;

(2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or

(3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:

◈ Israel Proper
◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you’re confused about Arabs-Moslems having sovereign control of any territory.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Military control is merely a function of the executive branch of the sovereign government.

The source of legal sovereignty over Palestine, as stated in international law,
is solely with the Jewish Nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)


Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
Click to expand...


Indeed, what treaty granted the geographic area of “Palestine” (a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire), to the Ottoman Turks?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
Click to expand...


*The 1920 San Remo Resolution*

"The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust... the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory [authority that] will be responsible for putting into effect the [Balfour] declaration... in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."
*
 Covenant of the League of Nations*

Art.22 declares that it is "a sacred trust of civilization" to provide for the well-being and development of  territories whose inhabitants are "not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world." Specifically formulated to create a Mandate to form a Jewish National Home in Palestine.

Comment:
Treaties have no statute of limitations, so their rights go on _ad infinitum._
The Jewish Nation is the sole legal sovereign in Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.



There is no such thing as a "right to sovereignty".  

There IS a right to self-determination, a right which has been developing in international law over the past 60 years and is still being determined today.  That right to self-determination, however, depends on the people seeking it to develop institutions which can bring that self-determination into reality. 

The Jewish citizens of Palestine achieved self-determination in 1948.  The Arab citizens of Palestine have yet to achieve it.  

Yes, I know you are going to argue that the Jewish citizens of Palestine had help.  Sure.  But they were also willing to BE helped.  

The Arab citizens of Palestine are still refusing to develop and are obstinately using violence to try to achieve the unachievable.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not reading the meaning for sovereignty.



P F Tinmore said:


> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

You want there to be a difference.  That does not mean there is a difference.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
Click to expand...

(COMMENT)

I ask you to look at the Maps that were part of Armistice _(on the left)_ and Peace Treaty _(on the right)_.   These mas are pictures of the actual map used in the documentation.  They are authenticated, the Armistice in the upper left corner; and the Treaty Map in the lower right corner.


 


I had to take pictures of these at least four times to get them to fit in the forum.  But I also have the map for the border along the The Gaza–Egypt border is the 12 kilometers (the Rafah Border Crossing segment) long border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt.   In both cases, the one for Egypt and the one with Jordan, the so-called Palestinian territories were included in the border of Israel.  In the case of the West Bank, the entirety of the West Bank was encapsulated into the hands of Israel.  It is only through the Oslo Accords do the Palestinians begin to become associated with the territory.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?



I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.

Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?


----------



## Shusha

With respect for the development of the territory for the self-determination of the peoples to whom it was established held *existing rights* (the Jewish people):

The Palestine Mandate text reads:

*ART. 2.*
_The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the *Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
_
*ART. 4.*
_An appropriate *Jewish agency* shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the *Jewish national home* and the interests of the *Jewish population* in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The *Zionist organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all *Jews* who are willing to assist in the establishment of the *Jewish national home*.
_
*ART. 6.*
_The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate *Jewish immigration* under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the *Jewish agency* referred to in Article 4, close settlement by *Jews *on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

_
It is absolutely clear that the peoples for whom the right to self-determination existed in Palestine were the Jewish people.  It was the Jewish people who were to be assisted with the development of a national home (State) in the territory. This was based on an *existing right.*  No other peoples were intended to take part in this development of self-determination.  In fact, other peoples were mentioned, regardless of race or religion, in terms of protection of civil rights only.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> With respect for the development of the territory for the self-determination of the peoples to whom it was established held *existing rights* (the Jewish people):
> 
> The Palestine Mandate text reads:
> 
> *ART. 2.*
> _The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the *Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> _
> *ART. 4.*
> _An appropriate *Jewish agency* shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the *Jewish national home* and the interests of the *Jewish population* in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The *Zionist organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all *Jews* who are willing to assist in the establishment of the *Jewish national home*.
> _
> *ART. 6.*
> _The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate *Jewish immigration* under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the *Jewish agency* referred to in Article 4, close settlement by *Jews *on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> _
> It is absolutely clear that the peoples for whom the right to self-determination existed in Palestine were the Jewish people.  It was the Jewish people who were to be assisted with the development of a national home (State) in the territory. This was based on an *existing right.*  No other peoples were intended to take part in this development of self-determination.  In fact, other peoples were mentioned, regardless of race or religion, in terms of protection of civil rights only.


Britain and the Zionists were both foreigners.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> I swear you ask this every week.


Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> With respect for the development of the territory for the self-determination of the peoples to whom it was established held *existing rights* (the Jewish people):
> 
> The Palestine Mandate text reads:
> 
> *ART. 2.*
> _The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the *Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> _
> *ART. 4.*
> _An appropriate *Jewish agency* shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the *Jewish national home* and the interests of the *Jewish population* in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The *Zionist organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all *Jews* who are willing to assist in the establishment of the *Jewish national home*.
> _
> *ART. 6.*
> _The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate *Jewish immigration* under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the *Jewish agency* referred to in Article 4, close settlement by *Jews *on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> _
> It is absolutely clear that the peoples for whom the right to self-determination existed in Palestine were the Jewish people.  It was the Jewish people who were to be assisted with the development of a national home (State) in the territory. This was based on an *existing right.*  No other peoples were intended to take part in this development of self-determination.  In fact, other peoples were mentioned, regardless of race or religion, in terms of protection of civil rights only.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain and the Zionists were both foreigners.
Click to expand...


Like the Muslim invaders were foreigners?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, what treaty granted the geographic area of “Palestine” (a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire), to the Ottoman Turks?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. There was no international law back then.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> With respect for the development of the territory for the self-determination of the peoples to whom it was established held *existing rights* (the Jewish people):
> 
> The Palestine Mandate text reads:
> 
> *ART. 2.*
> _The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the *Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
> _
> *ART. 4.*
> _An appropriate *Jewish agency* shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the *Jewish national home* and the interests of the *Jewish population* in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The *Zionist organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all *Jews* who are willing to assist in the establishment of the *Jewish national home*.
> _
> *ART. 6.*
> _The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate *Jewish immigration* under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the *Jewish agency* referred to in Article 4, close settlement by *Jews *on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> _
> It is absolutely clear that the peoples for whom the right to self-determination existed in Palestine were the Jewish people.  It was the Jewish people who were to be assisted with the development of a national home (State) in the territory. This was based on an *existing right.*  No other peoples were intended to take part in this development of self-determination.  In fact, other peoples were mentioned, regardless of race or religion, in terms of protection of civil rights only.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain and the Zionists were both foreigners.
Click to expand...


You ask for treaties, she provides them, and then you raise objections.  But these treaties still exist, whether you like them or not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a "right to sovereignty".
> 
> There IS a right to self-determination, a right which has been developing in international law over the past 60 years and is still being determined today.  That right to self-determination, however, depends on the people seeking it to develop institutions which can bring that self-determination into reality.
> 
> The Jewish citizens of Palestine achieved self-determination in 1948.  The Arab citizens of Palestine have yet to achieve it.
> 
> Yes, I know you are going to argue that the Jewish citizens of Palestine had help.  Sure.  But they were also willing to BE helped.
> 
> The Arab citizens of Palestine are still refusing to develop and are obstinately using violence to try to achieve the unachievable.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> There is no such thing as a "right to sovereignty".


You get all of your information from Israel's bullshit playbook.

_Recognizing​_that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

_Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Britain and the Zionists were both foreigners.



The Jewish people are NOT foreigners in their own homeland.  It is the historical, ancestral and religious home of the Jewish people.  And it was recognized as such by the international community more than a hundred years ago.  

And you are in no position to argue that people forcibly removed from their homes and homeland have no further collective rights to it.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
Click to expand...



The only person dancing is you.  

Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a "right to sovereignty".
> 
> There IS a right to self-determination, a right which has been developing in international law over the past 60 years and is still being determined today.  That right to self-determination, however, depends on the people seeking it to develop institutions which can bring that self-determination into reality.
> 
> The Jewish citizens of Palestine achieved self-determination in 1948.  The Arab citizens of Palestine have yet to achieve it.
> 
> Yes, I know you are going to argue that the Jewish citizens of Palestine had help.  Sure.  But they were also willing to BE helped.
> 
> The Arab citizens of Palestine are still refusing to develop and are obstinately using violence to try to achieve the unachievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a "right to sovereignty".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You get all of your information from Israel's bullshit playbook.
> 
> _Recognizing_
> that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
Click to expand...


GA non-binding resolution.  There is no "right to sovereignty" anywhere in international law.  That is not the same as saying sovereignty is prohibited.  

The Arab Palestinian people, like ALL peoples, including the Jewish people, have a right to self-determination.  This MAY or MAY NOT include sovereignty.  But there is no guaranteed right to sovereignty.  It OFTEN happens.  But it is not the only way a people can have self-determination.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You get all of your information from Israel's bullshit playbook.



I get my information from studying actual law and the original, primary documents which make up that law.  And I look at the laws from many perspectives, not just Israel's.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give partial credit for that response:  "The citizens of Palestine retained their *right* to sovereignty."  What does that mean?  *(RHETORICAL)*
> _•  See a Referenced Legal Definition pertaining to: *"Sovereignty"* •_
> 
> Many times you've pulled this response out of the air and state it as if it is somehow unique to the territory under discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Between 1918 and 1920, the territories were under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).
> • Between 1920 and 1948, the territories were under British Administration; territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but neither occupations nor Mandates acquire sovereignty. The citizens of Palestine retained their right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All over the world, there are nations filled with citizens that exercise their right to effect "the full right and power of a governing body over itself."
> View attachment 291413​
> ◈  Sovereignty; Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses: (SOURCE:  Modern Legal Usage, 2 ed, Bryan A. Garner. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016)
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> Think in terms of Israel and its control in the territories.   What part of the territories under the authority or rule of Israel?  *(RHETORICAL)*  I could list them:
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)​
> Yes, and all the Arab Palestinians, inside these demarcations _(supra)_, are within the territory under the the protection and Rule of Law (RoL) extended through Israel Sovereignty _(including the Arab Palestinian right to sovereignty)_.   And for the most part, the Arab Palestinians, within the demarcations, have enjoyed the Israeli RoL for the last half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, what treaty granted the geographic area of “Palestine” (a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire), to the Ottoman Turks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant. There was no international back then.
Click to expand...


I assumed you would sidestep with your usual one-liner.

What Treaty was required for Israel to seek self-determination?

As a proponent of international law (obviously acts of Islamic terrorism are consistent with international law), what international law prevented Israel from establishing a sovereign nation?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are not reading the meaning for sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You want there to be a difference.  That does not mean there is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (COMMENT)
> 
> I ask you to look at the Maps that were part of Armistice _(on the left)_ and Peace Treaty _(on the right)_.   These mas are pictures of the actual map used in the documentation.  They are authenticated, the Armistice in the upper left corner; and the Treaty Map in the lower right corner.
> View attachment 291450 View attachment 291449
> I had to take pictures of these at least four times to get them to fit in the forum.  But I also have the map for the border along the The Gaza–Egypt border is the 12 kilometers (the Rafah Border Crossing segment) long border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt.   In both cases, the one for Egypt and the one with Jordan, the so-called Palestinian territories were included in the border of Israel.  In the case of the West Bank, the entirety of the West Bank was encapsulated into the hands of Israel.  It is only through the Oslo Accords do the Palestinians begin to become associated with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Deflection. Neither the armistice nor Oslo were land/border treaties.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
Click to expand...

No land/border treaties have ever been posted.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
Click to expand...


You mean other than the ones that have been posted. 

Yeah those,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean other than the ones that have been posted.
> 
> Yeah those,
Click to expand...

Like?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean other than the ones that have been posted.
> 
> Yeah those,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
Click to expand...


Like the ones that have been posted. Egypt. Jordan.

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

Mark your calendars. The Arabs-Moslems have announced:

*Day of Rage 2019™️*

I’m not sure what differentiates an announced “Day of Rage” from any other day in the eternally aggrieved, always self inflicted pratfall that is every day in islam’istan. 

Another reason for a silly fashion parade when Hamas gets to prance around in military uniforms and ski masks. 



Palestinians declare ‘day of rage’ against U.S., Israel

Palestinian factions have called for a “day of rage” on Tuesday in protest of US administration decisions, particularly US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s recent announcement that settlements are not inconsistent with international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean other than the ones that have been posted.
> 
> Yeah those,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the ones that have been posted. Egypt. Jordan.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...

Egypt and Jordan have no right to determine Palestine's land/borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> 
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean other than the ones that have been posted.
> 
> Yeah those,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the ones that have been posted. Egypt. Jordan.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have no tight to determine Palestine's land/borders.
Click to expand...


When did they do that? Did you look that up?

Link?

You should file an international lawsuit if you believe that occurred, .

Make sure your lawsuit identifies you’re filing on behalf of the “country of Pal’istan” invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Now you are just being ridiculous.  In a childlike way, you might be right.  There are no agreements on the borders.  They are a matter under the Permanent Status of Negotiations.



P F Tinmore said:


> Deflection. Neither the armistice nor Oslo were land/border treaties.


*(COMMENT)*

The Oslo Accords were the framework which, as one of the outcomes, resulted in the Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat and the recognitions:

◈  The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

◈  The PLO encourages and calls upon the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to take part in the steps leading to the normalization of life, rejecting violence and terrorism,

◈  The PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid.

◈  Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.​
The Armistice Agreements are the only thing that the Arab Palestinians and the PLO have on which to base their demand by the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD):

◈  "The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Quote from the NAD​
The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now you are just being ridiculous.  In a childlike way, you might be right.  There are no agreements on the borders.  They are a matter under the Permanent Status of Negotiations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. Neither the armistice nor Oslo were land/border treaties.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Oslo Accords were the framework which, as one of the outcomes, resulted in the Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat and the recognitions:
> 
> ◈  The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.
> 
> ◈  The PLO encourages and calls upon the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to take part in the steps leading to the normalization of life, rejecting violence and terrorism,
> 
> ◈  The PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid.
> 
> ◈  Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.​
> The Armistice Agreements are the only thing that the Arab Palestinians and the PLO have on which to base their demand by the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD):
> 
> ◈  "The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Quote from the NAD​
> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.


Military control, i.e. occupation not sovereignty.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Egypt and Jordan have no right to determine Palestine's land/borders.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians were NOT formal parties to the conflict.  The territories in dispute were the lands in which the conflicts were fought.

It is the Arab Palestinians that did not have a right to establish the delimitations for peace.  They were not a party to the conflict.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have no right to determine Palestine's land/borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT formal parties to the conflict.  The territories in dispute were the lands in which the conflicts were fought.
> 
> It is the Arab Palestinians that did not have a right to establish the delimitations for peace.  They were not a party to the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestine already has international borders. Nobody else has any authority over them.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Military control, i.e. occupation not sovereignty.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Sovereignty is NOT dependent on the method by which a governing body establishes the full authority and power over a territory.  Military Occupation is not a disqualifying factor.  "Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State." 
*Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM
Professor of Law
Beirut Arab University
Faculty of Law and Political Science*





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Here you would be wrong again.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine already has international borders. Nobody else has any authority over them.


*(COMMENT)*

The Government of Palestine _(an Instrument of Great Britian)_ was defined by the Order in Council:

◈  "The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."​
The name "Palestine" was the short title for the phrase:  "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies"




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Here you would be wrong again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine already has international borders. Nobody else has any authority over them.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Government of Palestine _(an Instrument of Great Britian)_ was defined by the Order in Council:
> 
> ◈  "The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."​
> The name "Palestine" was the short title for the phrase:  "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Mandate did not commence until 3 months after the Treaty of Lausanne. There had to be a Palestine before there could be a Mandate for Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Here you would be wrong again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine already has international borders. Nobody else has any authority over them.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Government of Palestine _(an Instrument of Great Britian)_ was defined by the Order in Council:
> 
> ◈  "The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."​
> The name "Palestine" was the short title for the phrase:  "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate did not commence until 3 months after the Treaty of Lausanne. There had to be a Palestine before there could be a Mandate for Palestine.
Click to expand...


There was a loosely defined territory known as Palestine, among other territorial names. 

Where in the Treaty of Lausanne is the “country of Pal’istan” identified?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are not reading the meaning for sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You want there to be a difference.  That does not mean there is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel Proper
> ◈ Sheba'a Farms (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Golan Heights (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ East Jerusalem (which is now Israel Proper)
> ◈ Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (COMMENT)
> 
> I ask you to look at the Maps that were part of Armistice _(on the left)_ and Peace Treaty _(on the right)_.   These mas are pictures of the actual map used in the documentation.  They are authenticated, the Armistice in the upper left corner; and the Treaty Map in the lower right corner.
> View attachment 291450 View attachment 291449
> I had to take pictures of these at least four times to get them to fit in the forum.  But I also have the map for the border along the The Gaza–Egypt border is the 12 kilometers (the Rafah Border Crossing segment) long border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt.   In both cases, the one for Egypt and the one with Jordan, the so-called Palestinian territories were included in the border of Israel.  In the case of the West Bank, the entirety of the West Bank was encapsulated into the hands of Israel.  It is only through the Oslo Accords do the Palestinians begin to become associated with the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. Neither the armistice nor Oslo were land/border treaties.
Click to expand...


International law defines Palestine a sovereign territory solely for the Jewish Nation.
In fact the 1st time Arabs got to control any territory, was when Israel transferred them that partial control, solely as a function of sovereign Israeli decision.

The Jewish Nation, by definition of int. law.is the source of all legal authority in Palestine,
 while Arabs need new treaties because they were never sovereigns.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now you are just being ridiculous.  In a childlike way, you might be right.  There are no agreements on the borders.  They are a matter under the Permanent Status of Negotiations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. Neither the armistice nor Oslo were land/border treaties.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Oslo Accords were the framework which, as one of the outcomes, resulted in the Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat and the recognitions:
> 
> ◈  The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.
> 
> ◈  The PLO encourages and calls upon the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to take part in the steps leading to the normalization of life, rejecting violence and terrorism,
> 
> ◈  The PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid.
> 
> ◈  Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.​
> The Armistice Agreements are the only thing that the Arab Palestinians and the PLO have on which to base their demand by the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD):
> 
> ◈  "The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine."  Quote from the NAD​
> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Military control, i.e. occupation not sovereignty.
Click to expand...


A sovereign nation can establish military control anywhere in its country.
Autonomous region does do not equal abandonment of sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
Click to expand...



Well now you have changed the question.  The question originally posed by you (see above) was:



> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel _the Jewish people_



Israel is simply the name chosen by the Jewish people for the State which is the fulfillment of the self-determination of the Jewish people.  

Self-determination (as you have pointed out often enough yourself) is an inherent right for ALL peoples.  The recognition of the right to self-determination for the Jewish peoples is entrenched in the Mandate for Palestine which specifically and exclusively grants the right of self-determination in Palestine to the Jewish people based on their existing historical claim to the land.  

Because you dance away from that reality and pretend it doesn't exist, you have to change the question to:  Where are the land/border treaties?  And you know very well the answer, because you just posted: 



> Palestine already has international borders.




So, let's ask you this:  How do you know "Palestine" has international borders?  What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine".  And by golly there is your answer.  

Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> What Treaty was required for Israel to seek self-determination?



Repeating for emphasis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel  _the Jewish people_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now you have changed the question.  The question originally posed by you (see above) was:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel _the Jewish people_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is simply the name chosen by the Jewish people for the State which is the fulfillment of the self-determination of the Jewish people.
> 
> Self-determination (as you have pointed out often enough yourself) is an inherent right for ALL peoples.  The recognition of the right to self-determination for the Jewish peoples is entrenched in the Mandate for Palestine which specifically and exclusively grants the right of self-determination in Palestine to the Jewish people based on their existing historical claim to the land.
> 
> Because you dance away from that reality and pretend it doesn't exist, you have to change the question to:  Where are the land/border treaties?  And you know very well the answer, because you just posted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine already has international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's ask you this:  How do you know "Palestine" has international borders?  What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine".  And by golly there is your answer.
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> So, let's ask you this: How do you know "Palestine" has international borders? What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine". And by golly there is your answer.


Posted *many* times. You need to keep up.



Shusha said:


> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.


Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate did not commence until 3 months after the Treaty of Lausanne. There had to be a Palestine before there could be a Mandate for Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Actually, the Mandate was outlined and the San Remo Convention (1920).  And the Civil Administration almost immediately started.

In those days, when the Allied Powers Agreed to something, they did it.  And the "I's" were dotted and the "T' s" crossed in the normal course of politics and diplomacy _(dead slow)_.  In the case of the Mandate, the powers referred to its implementation as: "For the rest, the many improvements which the country needs, and which would tend to increase its prosperity and its revenue, have had to be postponed until the Mandate is promulgated and a loan can be issued."

 
I don't think that the difference in the formal dates actually interferes with the command authority of the Allied Powers.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

OH for heavens sake.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Self-determination is exactly that.  They _(the Israelis)_ make the determination for themselve and decide to act on it by themslves.  It is the entire meaning of "self-determination."  Now if you are looking for how the original boundaries _(not borders)_ were set, you need to refer to the *Paulet–Newcombe Agreement.*



 ​I specifically remember mentioning this a couple of times with you.

The   current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian), the Your 2000 letter from Lebanon to the UN.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Military control, i.e. occupation not sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sovereignty is NOT dependent on the method by which a governing body establishes the full authority and power over a territory.  Military Occupation is not a disqualifying factor.  "Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State."
> *Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM
> Professor of Law
> Beirut Arab University
> Faculty of Law and Political Science*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory,


What is that? Got a map? Got a defined territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Here you would be wrong again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine already has international borders. Nobody else has any authority over them.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Government of Palestine _(an Instrument of Great Britian)_ was defined by the Order in Council:
> 
> ◈  "The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."​
> The name "Palestine" was the short title for the phrase:  "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Order in Council was when Palestine was still an occupied territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate did not commence until 3 months after the Treaty of Lausanne. There had to be a Palestine before there could be a Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Actually, the Mandate was outlined and the San Remo Convention (1920).  And the Civil Administration almost immediately started.
> 
> In those days, when the Allied Powers Agreed to something, they did it.  And the "I's" were dotted and the "T' s" crossed in the normal course of politics and diplomacy _(dead slow)_.  In the case of the Mandate, the powers referred to its implementation as: "For the rest, the many improvements which the country needs, and which would tend to increase its prosperity and its revenue, have had to be postponed until the Mandate is promulgated and a loan can be issued."
> View attachment 291555 View attachment 291556
> I don't think that the difference in the formal dates actually interferes with the command authority of the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Actually, the Mandate was outlined and the San Remo Convention (1920). And the Civil Administration almost immediately started.


Britain occupied Palestine in 1917. The name of the occupation changed over time but Britain functioned as an occupying power until 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> OH for heavens sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Self-determination is exactly that.  They _(the Israelis)_ make the determination for themselve and decide to act on it by themslves.  It is the entire meaning of "self-determination."  Now if you are looking for how the original boundaries _(not borders)_ were set, you need to refer to the *Paulet–Newcombe Agreement.*
> 
> View attachment 291562​I specifically remember mentioning this a couple of times with you.
> 
> The   current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian), the Your 2000 letter from Lebanon to the UN.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian),


Egypt and Jordan have no say about Palestine's borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who are the Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords established the Areas _("A" • "B" • "C") (among other things)_, clearly mapped-out as areas of control.
> 
> 
> 
> Military control, i.e. occupation not sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sovereignty is NOT dependent on the method by which a governing body establishes the full authority and power over a territory.  Military Occupation is not a disqualifying factor.  "Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State."
> *Dr. WALID ABDULRAHIM
> Professor of Law
> Beirut Arab University
> Faculty of Law and Political Science*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is that? Got a map? Got a defined territory?
Click to expand...

Hamas will show you clearly where Israel's defined territory is. As you migbt have noticed, the State of Israel constantly defends their define territory from islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> OH for heavens sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Self-determination is exactly that.  They _(the Israelis)_ make the determination for themselve and decide to act on it by themslves.  It is the entire meaning of "self-determination."  Now if you are looking for how the original boundaries _(not borders)_ were set, you need to refer to the *Paulet–Newcombe Agreement.*
> 
> View attachment 291562​I specifically remember mentioning this a couple of times with you.
> 
> The   current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian), the Your 2000 letter from Lebanon to the UN.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian),
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have no say about Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> OH for heavens sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Self-determination is exactly that.  They _(the Israelis)_ make the determination for themselve and decide to act on it by themslves.  It is the entire meaning of "self-determination."  Now if you are looking for how the original boundaries _(not borders)_ were set, you need to refer to the *Paulet–Newcombe Agreement.*
> 
> View attachment 291562​I specifically remember mentioning this a couple of times with you.
> 
> The   current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian), the Your 2000 letter from Lebanon to the UN.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The current boundaries and effective borders are in the two treaties (Egypt - Jordanian),
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have no say about Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...


International law vested all sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish Nation.
Nations can enter any territorial treaties they see fit.


----------



## Hollie

Not that this comes as a surprise as the UNRWA welfare fraud has a long history of participation in the cradle to grave program of hate and incitement that defines so much of Arab-Moslem ideology. 




Palestinian textbooks full of incitement, study finds

According to IMPACT-se, all textbooks in social studies, history, Arabic and national education for grades 2–12, contain problematic content.

Palestinian schoolchildren are exposed to a dramatic amount of incitement and intolerance against Jews and Israel, a research institute based at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem found.


----------



## Hollie

More of what one should expect from an islamic fear society that exists in an alternate reality of conspiracy theories and self-hate.



Palestinian Media Watch
About UsPMW ImpactSupport PMW

*The Jews came as "invaders 70 years ago," no evidence of Jews before then*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 25, 2019

*Palestinian university lecturer: The Jews were never in Palestine, but came as “invaders 70 years ago”*
*Palestinian archeologist: No archaeological evidence of the presence of the children of Israel in Palestine 3,000 years ago*
*Palestinian author: The Zionist narrative has falsified history – the children of Israel were never in Palestine*





Palestinian Authority policy is to routinely deny the entire Jewish history in the Land of Israel.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> More of what one should expect from an islamic fear society that exists in an alternate reality of conspiracy theories and self-hate.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch
> About UsPMW ImpactSupport PMW
> 
> *The Jews came as "invaders 70 years ago," no evidence of Jews before then*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 25, 2019
> 
> *Palestinian university lecturer: The Jews were never in Palestine, but came as “invaders 70 years ago”*
> *Palestinian archeologist: No archaeological evidence of the presence of the children of Israel in Palestine 3,000 years ago*
> *Palestinian author: The Zionist narrative has falsified history – the children of Israel were never in Palestine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority policy is to routinely deny the entire Jewish history in the Land of Israel.








​
*"The Jews claim that they were in Palestine 2,000 years ago."*​











 

​





​

*"The Jews claim that they were in Palestine 2,000 years ago."*​


 






​


----------



## rylah

*Know Your History: Even the Term “Free Palestine”*
*Was Co-opted From the Jews*

_“Free, free Palestine!”_

These are the words shouted out by Israel haters worldwide, more often than not an expression of their wish for the destruction of the state of Israel.

But did you know the first use of the words “Free Palestine” were for the exact opposite objective?
American League for a Free Palestine (ALFP) was created in July 1944, by Peter H Bergson (formerly Hillel Kook), for the purpose of supporting and funding his Hebrew Committee of National Liberation in Palestine. The ALFP attracted Jewish and non-Jewish members from all occupations, but especially those in politics and entertainment. The ALFP’s most notable achievement was the work of award winning playwright and director Ben Hecht, a member of the league. Hecht wrote A Flag is Born to propagandize the cause by comparing the fight for a free Palestine against the British to the American Revolution. With money raised from the production of the play, the league purchased a boat for the aliyah of Holocaust survivors from France. The group dissolved in December 1948 as the goal of the league had been achieved.






They even had a “Palestine Resistance Month”! (but unlike the palestinian Arab notion of this, it involved lobbying, not terrorism).

Do you think the Jews of the time would have named their movement this way had there been a distinguishable group of Arabs identifying as “palestinians”, who had run a state called “Palestine”?

*Know Your History: Even the Term 'Free Palestine' Was Co-opted From the Jews*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.  And then promptly ignore the treaties as though they don't exist or are written in invisible ink.  Its utterly ridiculous.
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to ANYONE other than the Jewish people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear you ask this every week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now you have changed the question.  The question originally posed by you (see above) was:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel _the Jewish people_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is simply the name chosen by the Jewish people for the State which is the fulfillment of the self-determination of the Jewish people.
> 
> Self-determination (as you have pointed out often enough yourself) is an inherent right for ALL peoples.  The recognition of the right to self-determination for the Jewish peoples is entrenched in the Mandate for Palestine which specifically and exclusively grants the right of self-determination in Palestine to the Jewish people based on their existing historical claim to the land.
> 
> Because you dance away from that reality and pretend it doesn't exist, you have to change the question to:  Where are the land/border treaties?  And you know very well the answer, because you just posted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine already has international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's ask you this:  How do you know "Palestine" has international borders?  What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine".  And by golly there is your answer.
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's ask you this: How do you know "Palestine" has international borders? What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine". And by golly there is your answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted *many* times. You need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Oh my, you really are having a hard time figuring out how to dance around this, aren't you?

Let me see if I can walk you through it.  

1.  The principle for self-determination for all peoples (core principle of IL, ICL, Charter of the United Nations, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights)

_To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; _ (Article 1.2 Charter of the United Nations).

_All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development._ (Article 1.1 ICCPR)​2.  The rights for self-determination for the Jewish people were legally recognized and entrenched in law based on the Jewish peoples existing right due to their history, ancestry, indigenous origins, long-term presence and prior nation in the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. (Mandate for Palestine)

_Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the *Jewish people*...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the *Jewish people* with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the *Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion._

_An appropriate *Jewish agency* shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the *Jewish national home* and the interests of the *Jewish population* in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The *Zionist organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all *Jews* who are willing to assist in the establishment of the *Jewish national home*._

_The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate *Jewish immigration* under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the *Jewish agency* referred to in Article 4, close settlement by *Jews *on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes. _(Preamble, Articles 2, 4, 6 of the Mandate for Palestine)​3.  The territory to which this self-determination for the Jewish people applies is a result of a number of different principles and treaties. They are:  The principle in international law of previous administrative borders being inherited by new sovereigns. (_Uti possidetis juris_).  The legal encumbrance for the Allied Powers to determine the boundaries of the newly created and emerging States.  (Treaty of Lausanne, Mandate for Palestine).  The resulting treaties and documents which outline the boundaries determined by the Allied Powers.  (Paulet-Newcombe Agreement, 1906 border with Egypt, Mandate for Palestine and the Transjordan Memorandum which excised Transjordan from the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies).  Confirmation of these boundaries through other treaties (Treaty of Peace Between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and Treay of Peace between Egypt and Israel).

_Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned._ (Article 16 Treaty of Lausanne).

_Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;_ (Preamble Mandate for Palestine).

_THE FINAL REPORT ON THE DEMARCATION OF THE FRONTIER BETWEEN THE GREAT LEBANON AND SYRIA ON THE ONE SIDE, AND PALESTINE ON THE OTHER SIDE, FROM THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA TO EL HAMM (IN THE LOWER VALLEY OF THE YARMUK) IN PURSUANCE OF ARTICLES I AND 2 OF THE CONVENTION OF PARIS OF DECEMBER 23, 1920.  It is agreed between the undersigned, being the commission duly constituted in accordance with article 2 of the said convention, that the boundary between the Mediterranean and-El Hamm6 shall be as follows : The frontier leaves the Mediterranean Sea at the point called Ras-el-Nakurah, and follows the crest of the spur ..._ (excerpt Franco-British Agreement on Northern Border).

_The following provisions of the Mandate for Palestine are not applicable to the territory known as Trans-Jordan, which comprises all territory lying to the east of a line drawn from a point two miles west of the town of Akaba on the Gulf of that name up the centre of the Wady Araba, Dead Sea and River Jordan to its junction with the River Yarmuk; thence up the centre of that river to the Syrian Frontier. _(Transjordan Memorandum)

_The international boundary between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein. _ (Article 3.1Treaty of Peace between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan).

_The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II ..._ (Article 2 Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel).​

At this point you can accuse me of many things, but dancing or failing to provide documentary evidence clearly isn't one of them.  All of this has been provided for you before.  AND I KNOW you agree that international boundaries exist between the territory in question and her neighbors, so continuing to ask for that information is foolish.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and that is when everybody starts dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only person dancing is you.
> 
> Every.  Single.  Time. the treaties are quoted to you, you ignore them as though they don't exist.
> 
> View attachment 291495
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No land/border treaties have ever been posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now you have changed the question.  The question originally posed by you (see above) was:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the treaties granting those territories to Israel _the Jewish people_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is simply the name chosen by the Jewish people for the State which is the fulfillment of the self-determination of the Jewish people.
> 
> Self-determination (as you have pointed out often enough yourself) is an inherent right for ALL peoples.  The recognition of the right to self-determination for the Jewish peoples is entrenched in the Mandate for Palestine which specifically and exclusively grants the right of self-determination in Palestine to the Jewish people based on their existing historical claim to the land.
> 
> Because you dance away from that reality and pretend it doesn't exist, you have to change the question to:  Where are the land/border treaties?  And you know very well the answer, because you just posted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine already has international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's ask you this:  How do you know "Palestine" has international borders?  What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine".  And by golly there is your answer.
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's ask you this: How do you know "Palestine" has international borders? What treaties establish the international borders of "Palestine". And by golly there is your answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted *many* times. You need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the borders of the territory where the Jewish people have internationally recognized self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my, you really are having a hard time figuring out how to dance around this, aren't you?
> 
> Let me see if I can walk you through it.
> 
> 1.  The principle for self-determination for all peoples (core principle of IL, ICL, Charter of the United Nations, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights)
> 
> _To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; _ (Article 1.2 Charter of the United Nations).
> 
> _All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development._ (Article 1.1 ICCPR)​2.  The rights for self-determination for the Jewish people were legally recognized and entrenched in law based on the Jewish peoples existing right due to their history, ancestry, indigenous origins, long-term presence and prior nation in the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. (Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> _Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the *Jewish people*...
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the *Jewish people* with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the *Jewish national home*, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion._
> 
> _An appropriate *Jewish agency* shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the *Jewish national home* and the interests of the *Jewish population* in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The *Zionist organization*, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all *Jews* who are willing to assist in the establishment of the *Jewish national home*._
> 
> _The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate *Jewish immigration* under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the *Jewish agency* referred to in Article 4, close settlement by *Jews *on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes. _(Preamble, Articles 2, 4, 6 of the Mandate for Palestine)​3.  The territory to which this self-determination for the Jewish people applies is a result of a number of different principles and treaties. They are:  The principle in international law of previous administrative borders being inherited by new sovereigns. (_Uti possidetis juris_).  The legal encumbrance for the Allied Powers to determine the boundaries of the newly created and emerging States.  (Treaty of Lausanne, Mandate for Palestine).  The resulting treaties and documents which outline the boundaries determined by the Allied Powers.  (Paulet-Newcombe Agreement, 1906 border with Egypt, Mandate for Palestine and the Transjordan Memorandum which excised Transjordan from the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies).  Confirmation of these boundaries through other treaties (Treaty of Peace Between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and Treay of Peace between Egypt and Israel).
> 
> _Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned._ (Article 16 Treaty of Lausanne).
> 
> _Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;_ (Preamble Mandate for Palestine).
> 
> _THE FINAL REPORT ON THE DEMARCATION OF THE FRONTIER BETWEEN THE GREAT LEBANON AND SYRIA ON THE ONE SIDE, AND PALESTINE ON THE OTHER SIDE, FROM THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA TO EL HAMM (IN THE LOWER VALLEY OF THE YARMUK) IN PURSUANCE OF ARTICLES I AND 2 OF THE CONVENTION OF PARIS OF DECEMBER 23, 1920.  It is agreed between the undersigned, being the commission duly constituted in accordance with article 2 of the said convention, that the boundary between the Mediterranean and-El Hamm6 shall be as follows : The frontier leaves the Mediterranean Sea at the point called Ras-el-Nakurah, and follows the crest of the spur ..._ (excerpt Franco-British Agreement on Northern Border).
> 
> _The following provisions of the Mandate for Palestine are not applicable to the territory known as Trans-Jordan, which comprises all territory lying to the east of a line drawn from a point two miles west of the town of Akaba on the Gulf of that name up the centre of the Wady Araba, Dead Sea and River Jordan to its junction with the River Yarmuk; thence up the centre of that river to the Syrian Frontier. _(Transjordan Memorandum)
> 
> _The international boundary between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein. _ (Article 3.1Treaty of Peace between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan).
> 
> _The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II ..._ (Article 2 Treaty of Peace between Egypt and Israel).​
> 
> At this point you can accuse me of many things, but dancing or failing to provide documentary evidence clearly isn't one of them.  All of this has been provided for you before.  AND I KNOW you agree that international boundaries exist between the territory in question and her neighbors, so continuing to ask for that information is foolish.
Click to expand...

Why are all those foreigners imposing on Palestine?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why are all those foreigners imposing on Palestine?



Ah, so once again, rather than acknowledging facts and discussing the last two questions you asked, you introduce a new question.







I know you are going to keep dancing.  And in a week, you will ask those same to questions again.  You can't possibly actually address the real documents, because it destroys your entire argument.


But in answer to your question:

The Jewish people (not foreign) are exercising their right to self-determination.

The British (and French) were fulfilling their legal treaty obligations.

The Egyptians and Jordanians were first belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states, in contravention of all the most basic and well-established IL; and then entering into peace treaties with their neighbors.

Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states, in contravention of all the most basic and well-established IL.

Did I miss anyone?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are all those foreigners imposing on Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so once again, rather than acknowledging facts and discussing the last two questions you asked, you introduce a new question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are going to keep dancing.  And in a week, you will ask those same to questions again.  You can't possibly actually address the real documents, because it destroys your entire argument.
> 
> 
> But in answer to your question:
> 
> The Jewish people (not foreign) are exercising their right to self-determination.
> 
> The British (and French) were fulfilling their legal treaty obligations.
> 
> The Egyptians and Jordanians were first belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states, in contravention of all the most basic and well-established IL; and then entering into peace treaties with their neighbors.
> 
> Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states, in contravention of all the most basic and well-established IL.
> 
> Did I miss anyone?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The Egyptians and Jordanians were first belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states,


Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.


----------



## Ropey

* al bagdadi**: "STOP! OR I KILL MY KIDS" *

*Conan: "Ok, do it... boomer"

*
Pals are Arabs from Arabia  in the same way that al bagdadi was an Arab from Arabia.

just saying....


----------



## Ropey

Now post some pretty pictures.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are all those foreigners imposing on Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so once again, rather than acknowledging facts and discussing the last two questions you asked, you introduce a new question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are going to keep dancing.  And in a week, you will ask those same to questions again.  You can't possibly actually address the real documents, because it destroys your entire argument.
> 
> 
> But in answer to your question:
> 
> The Jewish people (not foreign) are exercising their right to self-determination.
> 
> The British (and French) were fulfilling their legal treaty obligations.
> 
> The Egyptians and Jordanians were first belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states, in contravention of all the most basic and well-established IL; and then entering into peace treaties with their neighbors.
> 
> Iraq, Lebanon and Syria were belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states, in contravention of all the most basic and well-established IL.
> 
> Did I miss anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Egyptians and Jordanians were first belligerently interfering with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other states,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
Click to expand...


Wot?!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.



The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.  

Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.


----------



## Shusha

And of course it was Israel.  For all of the reasons I just stated in answer to your ever-moving questions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
Click to expand...

They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
Click to expand...


Is that why the Arabs lost?
They entered an imaginary country?


----------



## ReinyDays

I blame England and France ... they were given charge to build peaceful polities after the Ottomans were ejected ... shame on them ...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
Click to expand...


Oh, you are ridiculous.  

They crossed into territory not under their sovereignty, which is foreign interference, which is what you were whining about.  

The Arab nations entered into the territory upon which the Jewish people had the exclusive, recognized right to self-determination and, having fulfilled the requirements of the Mandate and developed self-governing institutions and the necessary qualities for statehood, declared their independence and sovereignty in the normative way, following all accepted legal codes of the time, which was duly recognized.  

The name of that place is now called Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
Click to expand...


As usual, you hope to invent a history that never happened, and / or, you simply don’t know the facts. 

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948


----------



## member

Ropey said:


> * al bagdadi**: "STOP! OR I KILL MY KIDS" *
> 
> *Conan: "Ok, do it... boomer"
> 
> *
> Pals are Arabs from Arabia  in the same way that al bagdadi was an Arab from Arabia.
> 
> just saying....




















​
















​


----------



## member

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that why the Arabs lost?
> They entered an imaginary country?
Click to expand...





...........imaginary or not:

Terrorists [palestinians who call themselves 'hamass' and their extended terrorist families....] should not have "their own country".........[waaaay to many of them already....] 

 terrorist-infested muslim countries.

you can't broker 

 a good deal with _terrorist-types_.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, you are ridiculous.
> 
> They crossed into territory not under their sovereignty, which is foreign interference, which is what you were whining about.
> 
> The Arab nations entered into the territory upon which the Jewish people had the exclusive, recognized right to self-determination and, having fulfilled the requirements of the Mandate and developed self-governing institutions and the necessary qualities for statehood, declared their independence and sovereignty in the normative way, following all accepted legal codes of the time, which was duly recognized.
> 
> The name of that place is now called Israel.
Click to expand...

They did not attack Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you hope to invent a history that never happened, and / or, you simply don’t know the facts.
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948
Click to expand...

No invasion of Israel was mentioned.

Thanks for the link.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you hope to invent a history that never happened, and / or, you simply don’t know the facts.
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No invasion of Israel was mentioned.
> 
> Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

Who mentioned invasion other than you? Pay attention. The combined Arab-Moslem armies crossed the frontier and attacked Israel. Part of that war aimed at Israel was an attack on Tel Aviv.

You’re welcome for the link. BTW the link identifies Arab attacks in the former Mandate. Do you know what the mandate was?

Look it up.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, you are ridiculous.
> 
> They crossed into territory not under their sovereignty, which is foreign interference, which is what you were whining about.
> 
> The Arab nations entered into the territory upon which the Jewish people had the exclusive, recognized right to self-determination and, having fulfilled the requirements of the Mandate and developed self-governing institutions and the necessary qualities for statehood, declared their independence and sovereignty in the normative way, following all accepted legal codes of the time, which was duly recognized.
> 
> The name of that place is now called Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not attack Palestine.
Click to expand...


They were busy attacking Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They did not attack Palestine.



Oh please.  You just can't help but keep dancing. 

They occupied and annexed (or at least attempted to) territory that was NOT UNDER THEIR SOVEREIGNTY, in complete contravention of IL. 

The question on the table is whose sovereignty did they violate by doing so?  The answer is the sovereignty of the self-determination and the realization of a State of the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Do you know what the mandate was?
> 
> Look it up.



Lol.  He ignores the Mandate for Palestine because it gives Jews rights and Jews shouldn't have rights.


----------



## Hollie

Hey, folks. It’s Tuesday. You know what that means, rigght?. Yes, it’s:

*Day of Rage Tuesday™️
*
Today will _Shirley_ degenerate into an islamo-fun day of wholesome activities including rioting, rock throwing and maybe some tire burning so be sure to bring the kids. Hey, you’re a welfare recipient so working for a living is nor a concern. 

Come on down. Join the fun and you can martyr the bejezzus out of your children.



Palestinians gear up for ‘day of rage’ Tuesday against US settlements policy

PLO official says demonstrations will include marches through city centers and speeches by leaders of Palestinian factions.

Palestinians gear up for ‘day of rage’ Tuesday against US settlements policy


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Fatah official promises terror: “A comprehensive intifada” *

*PA leaders call for “Day of Rage”: Escalate the struggle *
*PA Ministry of Education closes schools for an hour so students can participate in Day of Rage marches*
*Palestinian reactions to US declaration that Israeli settlements are “not… inconsistent with international law”:*

*Fatah official Muhaisen: “The Day of Rage is the start of a comprehensive program of struggle to deal with the American-Israeli steps, [which will reach] even to the point of a comprehensive intifada”*
*Abbas’ deputy Al-Aloul: We will escalate the struggle*
*Fatah: Rage!*
*Official PA daily op-ed: Trump and Netanyahu are a “two-headed cobra”*
*PLO factions “called on their activists and our people to take part in these [Day of Rage] activities… to express our people’s opposition to all of the Zionist-American plots against the Palestinian cause”*

(full article online)

PA closes schools - tells children to participate in Day of Rage | PMW Analysis


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did not attack Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  You just can't help but keep dancing.
> 
> They occupied and annexed (or at least attempted to) territory that was NOT UNDER THEIR SOVEREIGNTY, in complete contravention of IL.
> 
> The question on the table is whose sovereignty did they violate by doing so?  The answer is the sovereignty of the self-determination and the realization of a State of the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

Red herring.


----------



## Hollie

*Day of Rage Tuesday™️*

The mini-caliphate is closed today. Any lightly used and/or unwanted Arabs-Moslems you wish to throw on muhammud's bonfire of hatred will be appreciated.  




Around 2,000 people gathered in the West Bank city of Ramallah by midday, where they set ablaze posters of U.S. President Donald Trump as well as Israeli and American flags. Schools, universities and government offices were closed and rallies were being held in other West Bank cities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.newsobserver.com/news/business/article237779224.html


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did not attack Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  You just can't help but keep dancing.
> 
> They occupied and annexed (or at least attempted to) territory that was NOT UNDER THEIR SOVEREIGNTY, in complete contravention of IL.
> 
> The question on the table is whose sovereignty did they violate by doing so?  The answer is the sovereignty of the self-determination and the realization of a State of the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Red herring.
Click to expand...


Ironic that you should say that.

*Red Herring*
_Ignoratio elenchi

(also known as: beside the point, misdirection [form of], changing the subject, false emphasis, the Chewbacca defense, irrelevant conclusion, irrelevant thesis, clouding the issue, ignorance of refutation)

*Description:* Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. While it is similar to the avoiding the issue fallacy, the red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.
_
*Logical Form:*
_
Argument A is presented by person 1.

Person 2 introduces argument B.

Argument A is abandoned.
_
*Example #1:*
_
Mike: It is morally wrong to cheat on your spouse, why on earth would you have done that?

Ken: But what is morality exactly?

Mike: It’s a code of conduct shared by cultures.

Ken: But who creates this code?...

*Explanation:* Ken has successfully derailed this conversation off of his sexual digressions to the deep, existential, discussion on morality._


Tinmore:  Where are the treaties granting the territories to the Jewish people?
Shusha, Rocco, Hollie:  Here they are.
Tinmore:  Where are the treaties that are land or border treaties?
Shusha, Rocco, Hollie:  Here they are.
Tinmore:  But Palestine has international borders.
Shusha, Rocco, Hollie:  We know.  Those are Israel's international borders.
Tinmore:  Why are all those foreign people in Palestine?
Shusha, Rocco, Hollie: Because of these things.
Tinmore:  No Arab army invaded Israel.
Shusha, Rocco, Hollie:  Arab armies invaded sovereignty not their own.
Tinmore:  None of them entered Israel.
Shusha, Rocco, Hollie:  Whose sovereignty did they violate then?
Tinmore:  Red herring.  


Please.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Day of Rage" not showing much rage today ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. No Arab army invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The continued ridiculousness of your arguments astounds me.
> 
> Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt armies crossed OUT OF THEIR OWN sovereign territorial boundaries, thus interfering with the territorial integrity of another sovereign.  To argue otherwise is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They crossed into Palestine. None of them entered Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you hope to invent a history that never happened, and / or, you simply don’t know the facts.
> 
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No invasion of Israel was mentioned.
> 
> Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...












_*"Diamond Member"*_







​













...but i bet you leave a skimpy tip! 










*"No invasion of Israel was mentioned."*

blech......israel is "invaded" every time your 'freedom-fighters' [terrorists] launch rockets, toss hand grenades or fly kite bombs into israel [unprovoked].


----------



## Hollie

The IDF was performing Islamic terrorist behavior modification after attacks from Gaza.



IDF hits Hamas targets in Gaza airstrikes in response to rocket fire

The Israel Defense Forces launched airstrikes on Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip late Tuesday night  and early Wednesday in response to a rocket attack from the coastal enclave earlier in the evening, the army said.

Fighter jets hit a number of targets in southern Gaza,  including one site “for the production of arms,” the IDF said.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem holiday with schools closed for 

*Day of Rage Tuesday™️*







Palestinians throw rocks at security forces during a demonstration against Israel and the US in Ramallah [Anadolu Agency]


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem festival in Gaza’istan. 


Day of Rage *Smoking Ruins of Failure™️*


----------



## Hollie

Good morning from islamic terrorist occupied Gaza'istan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Experts: Palestinian culture accepts marital rape and domestic violence; the laws don't protect women | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians make world's largest keffiyeh, "symbol of martyrs and prisoners" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The demonstrators chanted slogans emphasizing the need for UNRWA to continue its work until the "right of return" is realized.

In plain English, that means that the UN agency should continue being funded until millions of Arabs of whose ancestors lived in Palestine in 1947 can flood Israel and destroy the Jewish state.

They aren't demanding the world recognize a Palestinian state side by side with the Jewish state. They are demanding the "right" to move to an enemy state in order to destroy it from within.

UNRWA, of course, is on board with that plan. They have taught generations of Palestinians that they will "return" one day and are complicit in keeping them stateless for over 70 years.

Ironically, large numbers of schoolchildren took off from their UNRWA schools and participated in the demonstrations. This was probably with UNRWA's blessing. They are being taught that protests are more important than education.

Schoolchildren in the West Bank were off school yesterday as well for the "Day of Rage" declared by the PLO.

(full article online)

Gazans rally for @UNRWA to exist until Israel is destroyed ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> The demonstrators chanted slogans emphasizing the need for UNRWA to continue its work until the "right of return" is realized.
> 
> In plain English, that means that the UN agency should continue being funded until millions of Arabs of whose ancestors lived in Palestine in 1947 can flood Israel and destroy the Jewish state.
> 
> They aren't demanding the world recognize a Palestinian state side by side with the Jewish state. They are demanding the "right" to move to an enemy state in order to destroy it from within.
> 
> UNRWA, of course, is on board with that plan. They have taught generations of Palestinians that they will "return" one day and are complicit in keeping them stateless for over 70 years.
> 
> Ironically, large numbers of schoolchildren took off from their UNRWA schools and participated in the demonstrations. This was probably with UNRWA's blessing. They are being taught that protests are more important than education.
> 
> Schoolchildren in the West Bank were off school yesterday as well for the "Day of Rage" declared by the PLO.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazans rally for @UNRWA to exist until Israel is destroyed ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



This is Tinmore's wish but it will never happen.


----------



## Hollie

Aww, gee. Cancelling riots? 

What kind of message does this send to the angry, self-hating islamo-yutes.





Hamas cancels Friday's 'march of return' on Gaza border for third week


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Aww, gee. Cancelling riots?
> 
> What kind of message does this send to the angry, self-hating islamo-yutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas cancels Friday's 'march of return' on Gaza border for third week



*What kind of message does this send to the angry, self-hating islamo-yutes.*

Get a real job?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tomorrow is the UN-created "International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People" set up in 1977 specifically to be on the anniversary of the UN partition resolution that would have created a Palestinian Arab state if those same Palestinian people had not rejected it.

Hanan Ashrawi of the PLO, a person with more chutzpah than any Jew, said today that the UN system that has done more to legitimize the Palestinian national cause than anyone in the world did not give the Palestinians a minimum level of justice, encouraged extremist groups in "the State of Palestine" and the region in general, and provided Israel with "a cover to continue its crimes based on ethnic cleansing, forced displacement, apartheid and escalating settlement expansion." She also said the UN allows Israel to "practice fundamentalist Zionism and extremist colonial ideology."

Ashrawi also made a bizarre claim about the 1947 UN General Assembly resolution 181 I had not previously seen: "Although the partition resolution, which marks the beginning of the suffering of our people, gives the Security Council the right and the ability to take action against any dissenting party, it has repeatedly failed to exercise this right. "

The dissenting parties were the Arabs in Palestine and the entire Arab world, which attacked the Jews of the region within hours of the resolution being passed!


(full article online)

Hanan Ashrawi complains the UN is too pro-Israel! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A young boy is brimming with excitement waiting for a toy from his mother. But instead of rewarding her son with a toy for finishing his food, his mother hands him a rifle. When the boy expresses confusion, she responds with a grim announcement: 

“*My son, we were not created for happiness. In my eyes, you are meant for Martyrdom!*” 

[Official Fatah Facebook page, Nov. 22, 2019]

This is one of the abusive messages in a poem recited by a young girl on Palestinian radio that Abbas’ Fatah Movement chose to share with its 250,000 followers on Facebook. A second message in the poem that is clear child abuse tells Palestinian children why they are to die as Martyrs: They are merely the “ammunition” for Islam – the “weapon" with which to liberate and conquer Jerusalem.  

“Jerusalem is ours, our weapon is our Islam, and our ammunition is our children. And *you, O my son, are meant for Martyrdom*.”

The ideologies expressed in this poem illustrate the Palestinian Authority’s abuse of its own children that Palestinian Media Watch has documented since the first years of the PA. Palestinian children are taught to romanticize and seek death.

(full article online)

Extreme Palestinian child abuse! Mom tells her son he is destined for Martyrdom - in girl's poem | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

I’m just beside myself. Angry Mahmoud is threatening to break off relations with us here in the Great Satan™️. Apparently, angry Mahmoud is angry that the US has revised its position on land occupied by Islamic terrorists who presume an entitlement to such territory.

Gee whiz. The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” have taken billions of our welfare dollars while at the same time despising us over our support of a like-minded democracy with whom we share common values.

Here’s hoping angry Mahmoud can break off relations today.... soon, today. 




HomeWorld News

*Palestine warns breaking off relations with US over ‘legalization’ of West Bank settlements is imminent*
26 Nov, 2019 19:27  / Updated 1 day ago
Get short URL






Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has threatened to end the nation's relationship with the US after the Trump administration declared Israel's Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank – illegal under international law – legal


----------



## Hollie

Welfare fraud recipients with firearms, a Koran and a death wish - the next generation.


----------



## Hollie

Welfare money to build tunnels.


----------



## Hollie

It’s all fun and games Islamic Terrorism until it’s not.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> A young boy is brimming with excitement waiting for a toy from his mother. But instead of rewarding her son with a toy for finishing his food, his mother hands him a rifle. When the boy expresses confusion, she responds with a grim announcement:
> 
> “*My son, we were not created for happiness. In my eyes, you are meant for Martyrdom!*”
> 
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Nov. 22, 2019]
> 
> This is one of the abusive messages in a poem recited by a young girl on Palestinian radio that Abbas’ Fatah Movement chose to share with its 250,000 followers on Facebook. A second message in the poem that is clear child abuse tells Palestinian children why they are to die as Martyrs: They are merely the “ammunition” for Islam – the “weapon" with which to liberate and conquer Jerusalem.
> 
> “Jerusalem is ours, our weapon is our Islam, and our ammunition is our children. And *you, O my son, are meant for Martyrdom*.”
> 
> The ideologies expressed in this poem illustrate the Palestinian Authority’s abuse of its own children that Palestinian Media Watch has documented since the first years of the PA. Palestinian children are taught to romanticize and seek death.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Extreme Palestinian child abuse! Mom tells her son he is destined for Martyrdom - in girl's poem | PMW Analysis



This is horrifically disturbing.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> It’s all fun and games Islamic Terrorism until it’s not.




Am I the only one who thinks this looks staged?


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Arab-Moslem holiday with schools closed for
> 
> *Day of Rage Tuesday™️*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians throw rocks at security forces during a demonstration against Israel and the US in Ramallah [Anadolu Agency]






 ….what I’m amazed at is:  the whole 

  rabid bunch can easily be…..

 flattened by the israeli army, but they’re reserved about it……..[thank God].


----------



## Hollie

Where else but in the realm of IDS (_Islamic Derangement Syndrome_), is climate change an issue that “Pal’istanians” can co-opt.




Palestine is a climate justice issue


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Where else but in the realm of IDS (_Islamic Derangement Syndrome_), is climate change an issue that “Pal’istanians” can co-opt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is a climate justice issue



* The UN projected that Gaza will be unlivable by 2020. Many say it already is. *

2 million Palestinians would make most places unlivable......


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Toddsterpatriot, et al,

The future of the Gasa Strip is NOT a _fait accompli_.  The management of the Gaza Strip has had 15 years to turn the estranged Arab Palestinian enclave around into a profitable enterprise.  Yes, it could have been a regional entity establishing Friendly relations and Cooperation with neighboring States.



Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where else but in the realm of IDS (_Islamic Derangement Syndrome_), is climate change an issue that “Pal’istanians” can co-opt.
> 
> Palestine is a climate justice issue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * The UN projected that Gaza will be unlivable by 2020. Many say it already is. *
> 
> 2 million Palestinians would make most places unlivable......
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But alas!  The Gaza Strip leadership squandered their opportunity to achieve a viable government; and instead, used the $5.4 billion pledged by donor just since 2014.

It is the fault of the Arab Palestinian people that chose a combative path and wasted the money or time in a reckless and foolish manner.  The Arab Palestinian people, especially the Gazans, knowingly and openly chose to engage Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters for 
Criminal Acts directed against the Jewish State → calculated to → intimidate the civilian population and to compel the Israeli government to furthers the criminal objectives of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).

*(BOTTOM LINE)*

The HoAP, with the direct support from their citizenry, CHOSE the suicidal political, economic, and terrorist path that will become the coffin of their people.  It is intentionally and very deliberately a suicidal act meant to achieve their solemn oath: 

"The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, 
that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to 
establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."​





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist attack and unfortunately, another tepid Israeli response. 

I just don’t see what goal is achieved by allowing Islamic terrorists a “get out of being bombed into oblivion” free card.  






Gaza rocket explodes in open field in Israel; IDF strikes Hamas post in response

Rocket sirens wailed in Israeli communities near the Gaza Strip Friday night, with the army saying a rocket launched from the Palestinian territory exploded in an open field in Israeli territory. There were no reports of casualties or damage in the attack.


----------



## Hollie

And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one. 




Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip

Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.

But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip
> 
> Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.
> 
> But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.


That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip
> 
> Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.
> 
> But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...

The fact that they weren't wearing uniforms when they attacked the fence doesn't make them civilians, it makes them terrorists, and very stupid terrorists at that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip
> 
> Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.
> 
> But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


It’s actually not a “so-called” no-go zone, it’s a no-go zone. The Israelis have a right to defend themselves from the Islamic barbarians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip
> 
> Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.
> 
> But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s actually not a “so-called” no-go zone, it’s a no-go zone. The Israelis have a right to defend themselves from the Islamic barbarians.
Click to expand...

Israel's excuse to shoot Palestinian civilians on Palestinian land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip
> 
> Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.
> 
> But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s actually not a “so-called” no-go zone, it’s a no-go zone. The Israelis have a right to defend themselves from the Islamic barbarians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's excuse to shoot Palestinian civilians on Palestinian land.
Click to expand...


There would be no need to shoot them if the just stayed on “Palestinian” land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a glorious martyrdom was had by all, or at least by one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian teen shot dead by Israel in southern Gaza Strip
> 
> Weekly border protests along the Israeli frontier were officially cancelled this Friday.
> 
> But local residents said a small number of mostly young Palestinians still approached the fence, an area in which Israel's military enforces a "no go" zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s actually not a “so-called” no-go zone, it’s a no-go zone. The Israelis have a right to defend themselves from the Islamic barbarians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's excuse to shoot Palestinian civilians on Palestinian land.
Click to expand...


Arabs-Moslems excuse to wage gee-had. 

Are your feelings hurt because the gee-had failed?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

Only by agreements (Israeli-Palestinian) is it understood to be Arab Palestinian control.  



P F Tinmore said:


> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.


*(COMMENT)*


			
				The Daily Beast Newspaper said:
			
		

> BEIT HANOUN, Gaza — This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on Earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the 3-kilometer (1.8 miles) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.


*SOURCE:  *
*Jesse Rosenfeld*
Updated Jul. 12, 2017  /  *Published Jul. 28, 2014 *​This is nothing new, no surprise at all.  Periodically, the Arab Palestinians have to be reminded that the actions by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are painting the box tighter and tighter.  All HoAP know that they enter such areas at their peril. Several such Demilitarized Zones (DMZs) are maintained in various places around the world.  The Six-Day War was essentially started when the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and Gaza were expelled by Egypt, and then replaced by heavily armed Egyptian Forces.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Only by agreements (Israeli-Palestinian) is it understood to be Arab Palestinian control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> The Daily Beast Newspaper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIT HANOUN, Gaza — This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on Earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the 3-kilometer (1.8 miles) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE:  *
> *Jesse Rosenfeld*
> Updated Jul. 12, 2017  /  *Published Jul. 28, 2014 *​This is nothing new, no surprise at all.  Periodically, the Arab Palestinians have to be reminded that the actions by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are painting the box tighter and tighter.  All HoAP know that they enter such areas at their peril. Several such Demilitarized Zones (DMZs) are maintained in various places around the world.  The Six-Day War was essentially started when the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and Gaza were expelled by Egypt, and then replaced by heavily armed Egyptian Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are a hoot, Rocco. 
You clearly do not understand Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Only by agreements (Israeli-Palestinian) is it understood to be Arab Palestinian control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> The Daily Beast Newspaper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIT HANOUN, Gaza — This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on Earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the 3-kilometer (1.8 miles) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE:  *
> *Jesse Rosenfeld*
> Updated Jul. 12, 2017  /  *Published Jul. 28, 2014 *​This is nothing new, no surprise at all.  Periodically, the Arab Palestinians have to be reminded that the actions by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are painting the box tighter and tighter.  All HoAP know that they enter such areas at their peril. Several such Demilitarized Zones (DMZs) are maintained in various places around the world.  The Six-Day War was essentially started when the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and Gaza were expelled by Egypt, and then replaced by heavily armed Egyptian Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot, Rocco.
> You clearly do not understand Israel.
Click to expand...


Indeed. Someone who retreats to silly YouTube videos as a way to sidestep addressing historical fact.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Only by agreements (Israeli-Palestinian) is it understood to be Arab Palestinian control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> The Daily Beast Newspaper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIT HANOUN, Gaza — This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on Earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the 3-kilometer (1.8 miles) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE:  *
> *Jesse Rosenfeld*
> Updated Jul. 12, 2017  /  *Published Jul. 28, 2014 *​This is nothing new, no surprise at all.  Periodically, the Arab Palestinians have to be reminded that the actions by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are painting the box tighter and tighter.  All HoAP know that they enter such areas at their peril. Several such Demilitarized Zones (DMZs) are maintained in various places around the world.  The Six-Day War was essentially started when the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and Gaza were expelled by Egypt, and then replaced by heavily armed Egyptian Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot, Rocco.
> You clearly do not understand Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed. Someone who retreats to silly YouTube videos as a way to sidestep addressing historical fact.
Click to expand...

Israel's facts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Only by agreements (Israeli-Palestinian) is it understood to be Arab Palestinian control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> The Daily Beast Newspaper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIT HANOUN, Gaza — This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on Earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the 3-kilometer (1.8 miles) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE:  *
> *Jesse Rosenfeld*
> Updated Jul. 12, 2017  /  *Published Jul. 28, 2014 *​This is nothing new, no surprise at all.  Periodically, the Arab Palestinians have to be reminded that the actions by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are painting the box tighter and tighter.  All HoAP know that they enter such areas at their peril. Several such Demilitarized Zones (DMZs) are maintained in various places around the world.  The Six-Day War was essentially started when the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and Gaza were expelled by Egypt, and then replaced by heavily armed Egyptian Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot, Rocco.
> You clearly do not understand Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed. Someone who retreats to silly YouTube videos as a way to sidestep addressing historical fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's facts.
Click to expand...


Indeed. The facts you won’t find in you Press TV YouTube videos.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslims love to say that Israel is trying to turn this into a religious conflict - but what is a "protest praying" if not a desire to turn it into a religious conflict? Using prayer as a protest tool pretty much ignores the entire purpose of prayer.

If religious Jews held a "protest prayer" there would be angry op-eds that they don't know what prayer is. (When left-wing Jews try to hijack religious rituals for their own politics, no one seems to mind.) But a Muslim "protest prayer" shows again what a huge double standard there is between Muslims and Jews.

(full article online)

Muslim "Protest praying" in Hebron ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

There’s something really creepy about Moslems and their exploitation of young girls. 

I wonder where that comes from?
*





Young girl at Fatah rally: 
"Death is insignificant...
I love Palestine, blood is spilled for it" *

*Fatah rally honors 2 murderers, giving "plaques of glory and honor" to their families*
*Fatah added songs that encourage violence against Israel and glorify death to the video of the rally posted on Facebook*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Only by agreements (Israeli-Palestinian) is it understood to be Arab Palestinian control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That so called "no go zone" is in Gaza territory. Israel is shooting Palestinian civilians in Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> The Daily Beast Newspaper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIT HANOUN, Gaza — This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on Earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the 3-kilometer (1.8 miles) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE:  *
> *Jesse Rosenfeld*
> Updated Jul. 12, 2017  /  *Published Jul. 28, 2014 *​This is nothing new, no surprise at all.  Periodically, the Arab Palestinians have to be reminded that the actions by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are painting the box tighter and tighter.  All HoAP know that they enter such areas at their peril. Several such Demilitarized Zones (DMZs) are maintained in various places around the world.  The Six-Day War was essentially started when the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and Gaza were expelled by Egypt, and then replaced by heavily armed Egyptian Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot, Rocco.
> You clearly do not understand Israel.
Click to expand...


Wow! Those Israelis are awful!

Maybe the Muslim morons should stop pissing them off by firing rockets at Israeli civilians, eh?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority policy is to routinely deny the entire Jewish history in the Land of Israel. Jews were never here, the PA says, until they came and “occupied” Palestine in 1948. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the PA habitually refutes the authenticity of the numerous archeological artifacts and non-Biblical sources that testify to the Jewish presence and nationhood thousands of years ago. The following are three recent examples of this Palestinian denial of Jewish presence and history, showing that the PA’s political message passed on by Palestinian leaders for decades has been successfully adopted and is being repeated even by Palestinian academics.

Riyad Al-Aileh, a Palestinian political science lecturer from Al-Azhar University, stated that Jews only came as ”invaders 70 years ago”:


(full article online)

The Jews came as "invaders 70 years ago," no evidence of Jews before then | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Work accident! Fatah member dies in an "accidental explosion" in Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Another terrorist dies, and Israel-haters pretend he is a civilian ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are no settlers on the West Bank


----------



## Hollie

So, basically, no one noticed and no one cared that angry Mahmoud was lobbying a Spanish diplomat to pressure the UN to recognize a “Pal’istanian State”. Odd, because we’re told that the “country of Pal’istan” was invented way back in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne.


 But get this, the Spanish diplomat serves as something called the “UN High-Representative for the Alliance of Civilizations.”  What that suggests to me is another UN agency with funding for letterhead stationary, free pens with a logo on the side and people getting paid for doing not very much. 

What’s laughable was angry Mahmoud lecturing others about “International Law”. A laughable joke as the PA is explicitly promoting Islamic terrorism, paying Islamic terrorists to murder Israelis and participates in the UNRWA welfare entitlements of payments to support a criminal enterprise. 

Palestinian Authority urges all EU members to recognize Palestinian state

“_Abbas also stressed the importance of the role the international community could play in preserving the principles of international law and international legitimacy, on which the peace process was based, to end the occupation and establish an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital on the June 4, 1967 borders.”


_
Sometimes it seems like the world is standing by and doing nothing while Islamic terrorists presume an entitlement to be taken seriously as capable of establishing a working society. 

How does anyone take seriously the rantings of Islamic terrorists? There are two competing tribes of angry Islamists who function as separate entities, utterly hostile to one another so how does anyone take appeals for an Islamic terrorist “state”, seriously?


----------



## Hollie

Hamas has an Islamic terrorist problem. 



Netanyahu: Islamic Jihad doesn't absolve Hamas' responsibility for Gaza

Hamas is responsible for attacks on Israel emanating from the Gaza Strip because it is responsible for that territory, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting.

Netanyahu's words follow IDF strikes inside Gaza over the weekend – in response to rocket fire from there – that included a Hamas military compound in the northern part of the coastal enclave.


----------



## Hollie

Such is the legacy of Islamism in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Surf’s up. 






Palestinians walk past a pool of sewage on a beach in the northern Gaza Strip July 13, 2018 [File:Mohammed Salem/Reuters]


----------



## Hollie

*Haters Seethe as Facebook Finally Starts Blocking Pages Glorifying Terrorism*

Haters Seethe as Facebook Finally Starts Blocking Pages Glorifying Terrorism


Apparently, the terror supporters are feeling the pinch on Facebook, after years of being able to post the most horrendous things without consequence. And they are not happy about it.


----------



## Hollie

Israel Blocks Terrorists, Palestinians Block Critics

On the one hand, leaders of the Palestinian Authority (PA) condemn Facebook for "surrendering to Israeli pressure" and taking action against those who incite terrorism and hate speech. On the other hand, the same PA leaders keep pressuring Facebook to silence Palestinians who demand an end to financial and administrative corruption in the PA.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a documentary posted on Fatah’s official Facebook page, Fatah admits it “supported” Hamas “with money, weapons, and political cover” during the time of Yasser Arafat. 

In the video, which boasts of Fatah’s terror accomplishments, photos of Arafat with Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin are shown while the narrator explains: 









(full article online)

Fatah admits it supported Hamas "with money, weapons, and political cover" during the intifada terror campaign  | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

For more that two weeks (or perhaps as many as 43 days)  former prisoners have been holding a sit-in in tents in Ramallah, some holding a hunger strike, in order to protest the cuts in their salaries. This past Tuesday PA police tore down the tents; when the prisoners complained officials said that the space was needed for setting up a Christmas tree and the tent was relocated.

Palestinian prime minister Mohammad Shtayyeh offered to meet with the prisoners to work on their demands, but the meeting failed.

It is possible that these are Hamas members and the PA doesn't want to pay the. But it appears that this is one of those cases where no one has any desire to be upfront about the truth - Israel wants to maintain maximum pressure, and the PA wants its people to think that these payments to terrorists and their families are their highest priority - so any change in the PA's policy can only be gleaned by reading between the lines.

(full article online)

Has the Palestinian Authority stopped paying (some) terrorists? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> Hamas has an Islamic terrorist problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Netanyahu: Islamic Jihad doesn't absolve Hamas' responsibility for Gaza
> 
> Hamas is responsible for attacks on Israel emanating from the Gaza Strip because it is responsible for that territory, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting.
> 
> Netanyahu's words follow IDF strikes inside Gaza over the weekend – in response to rocket fire from there – that included a Hamas military compound in the northern part of the coastal enclave.


Clearly, Israel never should have withdrawn from Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

In case you missed it, the Islamic terrorists in Gaza held another goofy fashion parade. As usual, this one showcased children indoctrinated into the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.








Families and supporters of Hamas lined the roads of Khan Younis, the second largest city inside the Gaza Strip; Trey Yingst reports the Gaza Strip.

Hamas holds massive military parade in Gaza


----------



## Hollie

I don’t believe there was ever any doubt that the Fatah Death Cult was an Islamic terrorist enabler during the reign of Arafat mini-caliphate.

Nevertheless, celebrations were in order for the current Islamic terrorist dictator in fatah’istan. 




Fatah admits it supported Hamas during the Arafat era

December 1, 2019 / PMW) In a recent video posted by Fatah on its official Facebook page, the party of Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas admitted that it supported Hamas “with money, weapons and political cover” during the era of PLO leader Yasser Arafat.

Fatah, the party claims in the video, “has led and will continue to lead the national project,” and was “the first to fight in the Second Intifada.”


----------



## Hollie

*19 Nov 2019*

The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews. 




 
*50 months of terror – 13 September 2015 to the present*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Antisemitic Linda Sarsour says Zionists think Jews are better than everyone else (Video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

How old should children be before they are taught that the Dark–Eyed Virgins await them in Paradise if they become Martyrs for Allah? According to the Palestinian Authority no age is too young, as this message was broadcast on occasion of World Children’s Day on an official PA TV children’s program that addresses children as young as pre-schoolers.

In the same episode of the program _The Best Home_, two children recited poems encouraging Martyrdom-death for “Palestine.”

One poem, recited by a girl probably not more than 10 years old, taught that Palestinian kids – “lion cubs” – should use violence and fight with a “drawn” sword that “won’t return to the sheath.” The poem further told the kids that they have “the blood of the Martyrs” in their veins, and reminded them that according to Islam, the 72 virgins of Paradise – “the Dark-Eyed” - are “yearning” for them, and appreciate them when they die as Martyrs. The poem further stressed the ideal and urgency of seeking death – even right now – as it stated that “today I carry my shrouds.” Representing Palestinian adult approval, the PA TV host enthusiastically applauded the girl: 










(full article online)

"The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me" - Martyrdom-death promoted to kids on PA TV children's program | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

Not much is made of the Egyptians keeping an islamic terrorist kingpin with Hamas under a travel ban. However, the Egyptian government has a real self- interest in keeping Hamas on a short leash as Egypt has had a number of clashes with Hamas terrorists. 



EGYPT TO ALLOW HAMAS LEADER TO LEAVE GAZA
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

Bing
_




Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh next to his destroyed office (REUTERS/Handout). (photo credit:" HANDOUT/REUTERS)_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And now......from the people who embraced Naziism and Nazis......Al Husseini......the Farhoud.......]

PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports head Jibril Rajoub wrote on his Facebook page: "Our brothers are here – and foremost among them His Honor [PA] Prime Minister [Muhammad Shtayyeh], government ministers, members of the PLO Executive Committee and the Fatah Central Committee, commanders of the PA Security Forces, and pillars of the private sector… in order to say to this fascist and Nazi occupation that Jerusalem is ours, and that Jerusalem will only be Islamic-Christian." This from Palestinian Media Watch (PMW).

(full article online)

Top PA official: 'Jerusalem is ours and will only be Islamic-Christian'


----------



## Hollie

OK, So Arab-Moslem "academics" (keep the laughter to a minimum), deny Jewish history in this area of the Middle East. 

I auppose the Arab-Moslem "academics" are graduates of the Hamas gee-had youth camps.  



Palestinian deny archaeological evidence of Jews in Israel

Jews are 'colonialists' and 'occupiers' who only arrived in Israel in 1948, the academics claimed on Palestinian TV.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> OK, So Arab-Moslem "academics" (keep the laughter to a minimum), deny Jewish history in this area of the Middle East.
> 
> I auppose the Arab-Moslem "academics" are graduates of the Hamas gee-had youth camps.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian deny archaeological evidence of Jews in Israel
> 
> Jews are 'colonialists' and 'occupiers' who only arrived in Israel in 1948, the academics claimed on Palestinian TV.



It seems our friend P F Tinmore attended the same madrassah as the Islamic “academics”.


----------



## Hollie

Arab “Pal’istanian” history. A history of fraud, waste and corruption. 



Corruption: A major cause of Palestinian suffering - documentary

Much has been said about the sums that the Palestinian Authority spends on salaries of terrorists imprisoned in Israel and the families of “martyrs” – in other words, suicide-terrorists and those killed during their murderous operation. But when you talk to Palestinians about the misappropriation of funds allocated by the international community, the first term they use is “corruption.”


----------



## Hollie

Our friend “Al” is makin’ it real in the islamo-hood.

Both Allah, our friend “Al” and so much of islam’istan sure seem to have a creepy “thing” for female children.





Video:
"Palestinian Preacher Yusuf Al-Makharze: Allah Wants Girls to Be Married off When They Start Menstruating; Our Leaders Have No Right to Prevent This from Happening"


----------



## Hollie

The usual cheap threats and bluster from islamic terrorists.


Video:
"Gaza Solidarity Rally in Times Square: We Will Start an Intifada in Every Classroom, Every College Campus; We Will Shut Down Every Zionist Event; Israel Has No Right to Exist; Palestinian Resistance Is Not Terrorism"


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The Arabs-Moslems are angry. Aren't they always whinng about some perceived offense to their tender sensibilities?



Israel planning new settlement in flashpoint city of Hebron

_




NEWS / ISRAELI–PALESTINIAN CONFLICT


*Israel planning new settlement in flashpoint city of Hebron*
Palestinian officials slam plan, calling it result of US decision to no longer consider settlements illegal.

01 Dec 2019 GMT+3
Israel's defence minister has approved plans for the building of a new illegal settlement in the heart of the flashpoint city of Hebron, drawing sharp criticism from Palestinian officials.
_


----------



## Sixties Fan

What kind of society consciously and purposely sacrifices its own youth for political gain and tactical advantage?

Today the overwhelming majority of Palestinian Arabs nurture a blind hatred of Israel. They have created a cultural milieu of vengeance and violence – preparing their children to be sacrifices in a death cult.

Palestinian Arabs are killing their youth because they make effective delivery systems for killing Israelis. This tactic encourages Palestinians to enlarge the role of their children by using them as human shields, direct combatants and suicide bombers – glorifying, rather than mourning their deaths.

The death of Arab children on the front lines – extolled as shahids or martyrs – has become a cynical weapon in the arsenal of Arab leaders. They have learned that when their children are killed, they gain world sympathy, as the death of any child is considered a tragedy and consequently portrayed as such in the media, regardless of circumstance.


A criminal Palestinian Arab leadership, along with intimidated Palestinian parents on the West Bank and Gaza, exploit their children to engage in armed conflict – in opposition to values held by the rest of the civilized world and in flagrant violation of international law and common decency.

Some parents and social organizations do protest the barbaric use of children as warriors, although not necessarily criticizing suicide bombing as a tactic. Unfortunately, they are small voices in the wilderness.

*Protecting our children is a universal trait that unites the Family of Man. But in Palestinian society, that standard has been turned on its head.*

*Learn more at www.mythsandfacts.org*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sami, a transgender Palestinian originally from Hebron, who now lives in Tel Aviv, was severely beaten on Monday afternoon in Kfar Aqab, a village close to Ramallah.

Sami and his friend were able to escape after reaching the Kalandia checkpoint, not before the youth damaged his car and destroyed much of its exterior body.Because of his transgender identity, Sami was kicked out his home by his family, later gaining refuge in Tel Aviv. The circumstances surrounding the incident are still unclear.

According to social media, the victim went to Ramallah to get a rhinoplasty.

Video of the incident is online. Apparently, the original videos were far worse and the worst violence has been edited out.

I could not find a word about this in the left-wing, pro-gay rights, anti-Israel Twitter accounts I follow.

Neither was there any outrage from the alQaws Palestinian gay rights group, or from "Queers for Palestine."

(full article online)

Video: Palestinians beat up transgender Arab in Ramallah, pro-BDS queer groups silent ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of Mahmoud’istan. 

Just another crank dictator in the never ending parade of crank dictators in Arab-Moslem’istan. 




The Palestinian Authority’s Corruption Dooms Chances for Peace






JNS.org – The Palestinian Authority (PA) has been a hotbed of corruption and financial mismanagement since its birth in 1993 under Yasser Arafat. This has been an impediment both to Palestinian self-rule and to peace with Israel.

Arafat’s successor, PA President Mahmoud Abbas — now serving the 15th year of his four-year term of office — has elevated the crookedness of PA finances to a level even Arafat might admire. The misappropriation of billions in Western funds by PA cronies — facilitated by a lack of financial transparency or any sort of accountability — makes the realization of Palestinian aspirations more unrealistic by the day


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem elections? 

I’m not sure what the point is when the Islamic terrorists in control now will be the same Islamic terrorists running in elections. 



'Swamped in corruption': Dispirited Palestinians see little hope in 2020 elections.

Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Fatah agree on election proposal






HEBRON, West Bank — It will be the first vote of its kind in more than a decade, but proposed Palestinian elections face a wall of apathy from voters tired of infighting and corruption among their leadership and frustrated by the increasingly remote prospect that they will ever secure their own homeland


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> What kind of society consciously and purposely sacrifices its own youth for political gain and tactical advantage?
> 
> Today the overwhelming majority of Palestinian Arabs nurture a blind hatred of Israel. They have created a cultural milieu of vengeance and violence – preparing their children to be sacrifices in a death cult.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs are killing their youth because they make effective delivery systems for killing Israelis. This tactic encourages Palestinians to enlarge the role of their children by using them as human shields, direct combatants and suicide bombers – glorifying, rather than mourning their deaths.
> 
> The death of Arab children on the front lines – extolled as shahids or martyrs – has become a cynical weapon in the arsenal of Arab leaders. They have learned that when their children are killed, they gain world sympathy, as the death of any child is considered a tragedy and consequently portrayed as such in the media, regardless of circumstance.
> 
> 
> A criminal Palestinian Arab leadership, along with intimidated Palestinian parents on the West Bank and Gaza, exploit their children to engage in armed conflict – in opposition to values held by the rest of the civilized world and in flagrant violation of international law and common decency.
> 
> Some parents and social organizations do protest the barbaric use of children as warriors, although not necessarily criticizing suicide bombing as a tactic. Unfortunately, they are small voices in the wilderness.
> 
> *Protecting our children is a universal trait that unites the Family of Man. But in Palestinian society, that standard has been turned on its head.*
> 
> *Learn more at www.mythsandfacts.org*


Load of hooey.


Sixties Fan said:


> Today the overwhelming majority of Palestinian Arabs nurture a blind hatred of Israel.


The Palestinians always opposed the Zionist settler colonial project. They have every right to resist that project.


----------



## Hollie

It’s back.

*Islamic Terrorist Friday Fun Day™️*

The Shia Iranian Mullocrats likely decided that their Sunni dhimmi subjects needed to earn their welfare money.  



Hamas set to renew Gaza border protests despite talks with Israel

The terror group publishes leaflets featuring violent imagery, calling on the enclave’s residents to come out in droves for the March of Return on Friday after a three-week long hiatus


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians always opposed the Zionist settler colonial project. They have every right to resist that project.



What you mean is that the Arab-Moslem squatters presumed an entitlement to land they didn’t own.


----------



## Hollie

I tend to think that over time, there is a growing realization that the islamic terrorist enterprises in Gaza and the West Bank are little more than excuses for thievery and degeneracy.



In surprise change, 13 countries vote against pro-Palestine UN resolution


In surprise change, 13 countries vote against pro-Palestine UN resolution.

States led by Germany change their voting pattern in favor of Israel, opposing Division of Palestinian Rights, although motion still passes by wide margin
By RAPHAEL AHREN Today, 1:49 am  3


Over a dozen countries on Tuesday abruptly changed their voting pattern at the United Nations in Israel’s favor, opposing an annual resolution expressing support for a pro-Palestinian UN agency traditionally critical of the Jewish state.

Germany, the Czech Republic, Austria, Bulgaria, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Lithuania, Netherlands, Romania, Slovakia, Brazil and Colombia for the first time voted against the resolution regarding the Division ofrf Palestinian Rights at the UN Secretariat.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The new field hospital in the Gaza Strip is currently being built with the help of Friendship, a US NGO, as well as partial funding from Qatar. The hospital, which is being constructed near the Gaza-Israel border, will provide medical services to thousands of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.


Jamal Nasr, a representative of the Palestinian Democratic Union (FIDA) party went as far as claiming that the new hospital will serve as a center for spying on the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. "This is a suspicious project," Nasr said. "It can't have any humanitarian purposes. It's actually a base for intelligence gathering."


As with the hospital, the PA leadership has also come out against the proposed artificial island port, which aims to improve the situation in the Gaza Strip. This is the same PA that has been repeatedly condemning Israel for imposing a "blockade" on the Gaza Strip. Instead of welcoming the Israeli initiative, PA officials are denouncing it as another "conspiracy" against the Palestinians.


Abbas and his senior officials are seeking to prolong the suffering of their people in the Gaza Strip so they can continue to blame Israel alone for the crisis there. By calling the hospital a "spying center," they are also endangering the lives of the volunteers and medical staff, whose sole "crime" is providing medical treatment to Palestinians.


The next time anyone talks about the harsh conditions in the Gaza Strip, the world needs to realize that those who are trying to block aid to their people are the Palestinian leaders.

(full article online)

How Palestinian Leaders Sabotage Palestinians' Interests


----------



## Hollie

A rather disturbing look into the gaping maw of Arab-Moslem corruption. 


palestinian corruption  - Bing video


----------



## Hollie

*Corruption in Palestine: A Self-Enforcing System - Al-Shabaka*
https://al-shabaka.org/briefs/corruption-in-palestine

The corruption embedded within the Palestinian political system is best exemplified in the interplay between power and money at the highest level of political authority. This is the most prevalent form of corruption and yet it is the most difficult to trace because the elites often enjoy social, political or legal immunity


----------



## Hollie

Commit mass murder / suicide. 
Make your Sitty proud. 






Source: Elder of Ziyon / Terror Groups in Gaza Encourage Kids to Become Martyrs


----------



## Hollie

Not much good news for the disposable commodity that “Pal’istanians” call children. 



Findings on the Worst Forms of Child Labor - West Bank and the Gaza Strip | U.S. Department of Labor


----------



## Hollie

Oh, I don’t know. Breeding for the purpose of producing little islamo-bots who can be used as a disposable commodity to advance a totalitarian politico-religious ideology... never mind. 


*UN report: Widespread child abuse in Palestinian Authority*

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/235483

UNICEF reports large number of Palestinian Arab girls forced into child marriages, rampant beatings of children, and forced labor.


----------



## Hollie

Submission to UN urges rights for Palestinian, Israeli children subjected to Hamas abuse


The report provides evidence that Palestinian groups have subjected children to “arbitrary detention and torture … inundating children with messages of hate and violence,” as well as “encouraging them to kill Israelis and become martyrs in the struggle to liberate all of Israel [from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea] for Palestine.”


----------



## Hollie

The next generation of psychopaths.

And for some reason unknown to me, these psychopaths demand an exclusive welfare entitlement to further their acts of islamic terrorism and some parts of the world contribute to that entitlement.



*Plaque honoring teen suicide bomber at entrance to PA high school for girls*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 5, 2019

Plaque honoring teen suicide bomber at entrance to PA high school for girls | PMW Analysis

*Female suicide bomber who murdered 2 glorified on plaque at entrance to Bethlehem high school*
*Exhibition at same high school glorified terrorist murderers who killed hundreds*






Every day when Palestinian girls enter their high school in Bethlehem the Palestinian Authority reminds them that the suicide bomber who was their age, 17-year-old Ayyat Al-Akhras who murdered 2 and wounded 28, is their role model.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> The next generation of psychopaths.
> 
> And for some reason unknown to me, these psychopaths demand an exclusive welfare entitlement to further their acts of islamic terrorism and some parts of the world contribute to that entitlement.
> 
> 
> 
> *Plaque honoring teen suicide bomber at entrance to PA high school for girls*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 5, 2019
> 
> Plaque honoring teen suicide bomber at entrance to PA high school for girls | PMW Analysis
> 
> *Female suicide bomber who murdered 2 glorified on plaque at entrance to Bethlehem high school*
> *Exhibition at same high school glorified terrorist murderers who killed hundreds*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every day when Palestinian girls enter their high school in Bethlehem the Palestinian Authority reminds them that the suicide bomber who was their age, 17-year-old Ayyat Al-Akhras who murdered 2 and wounded 28, is their role model.



This is the difference between Palestinians and Israelis.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ From a Palestinian born in Jordan.  But he is not a Jordanian .
Why?  ]

Joseph Massad is professor of Modern Arab Politics and Intellectual History in the Department of Middle Eastern, South Asian, and African Studies at Columbia University.

Even though he has written articles that are so antisemiticas to be indistinguishable from neo-Nazi literature, and even though he is a homophobe who accuses gay activists of colonialism and imperialism, he still gets respect. Which makes one wonder if it is possible for an Arab academic to ever say anything to outrageous for the Left to cheer him.

He just wrote an article for Middle East Eye where he uses his normal antisemitic rhetoric, claiming that Israel's Law of Return is illegal and that Palestinian "right of return" is international law.

(full article online)

Columbia professor Joseph Massad admits Palestinian "return" is meant to destroy Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Call her a raving Joooo hater, or, just call her predictable. 



Rashida Tlaib Headlines Anti-Semitic Hate Fest

Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D., Mich.) was the keynote speaker at a conference hosted by a Muslim organization that traffics in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and that counts among its supporters many who seek Israel's destruction.

Tlaib headlined the American Muslims for Palestine's (AMP) 2020 election conference late last month in Chicago. The freshman lawmaker, known for her routine criticism of Israel and its supporters, shared the stage with a who's who of leading anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists, including Bernie Sanders surrogate Linda Sarsour.


----------



## Hollie

Let’s think about this. A “Pal’istanian” state built around competing Islamic Terrorist franchises. 



We Really Need to Talk About Corruption - The Tower

The present efforts to create a Palestinian state are built entirely atop a Palestinian political system that has long suffered from endemic corruption, abuse of power, nepotism, and waste. This problem has dogged the Palestinians at least since the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994, radically undermining the most basic elements required for successful governance—including the faith of individual Palestinians in their leaders. This hinders the ability to administer international assistance, encourage investment, or build effective institutions.


----------



## Mindful

*WATCH: What Happened When a Palestinian YouTuber Met an Israeli in Germany.*
By
David Lange
 - 
December 6, 2019

A popular Palestinian youtuber called Falastinyx was recently in Germany looking for people who speak Arabic. He ends up meeting an Israeli. The Israeli-Palestinian-conflict-in-a nutshell-hilarity ensues.

WATCH: What Happened When a Palestinian YouTuber Met an Israeli in Germany


----------



## Sixties Fan

The actual report by the prosecutor, in the middle of seven pages of allegations against Israel, says:

" In addition, the Office has also received allegations that: (i) Palestinian security and intelligence services in the West Bank have committed the crime against humanity of torture and related acts against civilians held in detention centres under their control; and (ii) the PA have encouraged and provided financial incentives for the commission of violence through their provision of payments to the families of Palestinians who were involved, in particular, in carrying out attacks against Israeli citizens, and under the circumstances, the payment of such stipends may give rise to Rome Statute crimes. These as well as any other alleged crimes that may occur in the future require further assessment. 
Apparently the prosecutor is just listing things that have been submitted to her; she has not even begun an investigation. "


It is interesting that the PA jumps to defend the idea of paying salaries to terrorists, and doesn't even mention or deny the other charge of torture.

(full article online)

Palestinians seething that ICC is looking at "pay for slay" as a possible war crime ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The eternally aggrieved, always angry, forever complaining, non-stop whining Arabs-Moslems parading around as "Pal'istanians" found something new that offends their tender islamo-sensibilities.

It has become another reaon for the competing islamic terrorist franchises to hate each other as much as they hate Christians.

Can't we just give them more money and, oh yeah, give them their own state?






Construction of field hospital in the Gaza Strip near the Erez crossing. (Screenshot from the Friend Ships-Project-Camp Gaza Facebook page)

US Christians build field hospital in Gaza, deepening rift between PA and Hamas

*US Christians build field hospital in Gaza, deepening rift between PA and Hamas*
*PLO official claims project, funded by pro-Israel evangelical donors, serving ‘military, intelligence and security’ purposes, but terror group brushes off concerns*
By ADAM RASGON 4 Dec 2019, 10:26 pm3


A field hospital being built by a US Evangelical Christian aid group in the northern Gaza Strip has become a source of controversy for the already feuding Ramallah-based Palestinian leadership and the Hamas terrorist group that controls the coastal enclave


----------



## Hollie

The bullet points go on and on but you get the point. An islamic terrorist dictatorship that continues due to international welfare 


The Palestinian Leaders' War on Preventing Corruption


The Palestinian Authority has chosen to crack down on anti-corruption activists as part of an effort to silence its critics and deter others from demanding transparency and accountability.


Stories concerning rampant financial and administrative corruption in the Palestinian Authority do not surprise those who have been reporting on Palestinian affairs in the past two decades. What _is_ surprising is the growing number of Palestinian individuals and groups who are openly defying Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his senior officials by talking about and exposing corruption.


----------



## Hollie

Unfortunate things happen when you enter an islamic terrorist war zone.

When will the wannabe Islamist invaders end their war?


Palestinian journalist loses an eye after being hit by Israeli rubber bullet at West Bank land seizure protest (GRAPHIC)


----------



## Hollie

"Get'em while they're young".

That was the way of the inventor of islamism, Muhammud (swish).

Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today. 



Palestinians Exploiting Children to Fight Israel

The new Palestinian curriculum for grades 1 to 4 "is significantly more radical than previous curricula," concludes a new study by Hebrew University's Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (IMPACT-se). It "teaches students to be martyrs, demonizes and denies the existence of Israel, and focuses on a 'return' to an exclusively Palestinian homeland."


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

While the linked article has a number of common sense bullet points, I don’t see either Hamas or the PA changing their behaviors. 

The leadership of both those Islamic terrorist franchises have spent a solid decade-long program of theft and thievery that supports their personal fortunes and acts of Islamic terrorism. 


How Hamas Leaders Fool Palestinians


It is also time for the international community to wake up to the fact that it is wealthy Hamas leaders, and not Israel, who are responsible for the humanitarian and economic disaster that is known as the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

They’re back.

*Friday Fun Day at the Border Gee-had™️
*
As we see regularly, the Arabs-Moslems made sure their children were represented in the acts of violence, 

Apparently, they believe It makes for good publicity when they can use injured children for propaganda purposes. 



Thousands protest along Gaza border






Protesters clash with Israeli soldiers during demonstration along Gaza boSome 4,000 Palestinian Arabs protested at several locations along the Gaza border on Friday, as the Hamas-orchestrated “March of the Return” protests resumed. In an unusual move, many of them were children, noted _Channel 13 News_.

Some of the demonstrators threw explosives at IDF forces, who in turn used riot dispersal means.

The Hamas-run “health ministry” in Gaza reported that 27 protesters were wounded, four of whom by live fire


----------



## Hollie

*Rashida Tlaib Poses For Pictures With Anti-Israel Group That Endorses Terrorism*

SEPTEMBER 7, 2019 By Chrissy Clark
Last weekend, Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) chatted and posed for pictures in Dallas with members of the Palestine Youth Movement (PYM), a group that has voiced support for terrorism, reported the Washington Free Beacon earlier today.




Gee-had wannabe.


----------



## Hollie

“Ya’ bro. We got our asses kicked. Let’s go cash our welfare checks.”













Palestinians hug in front of the remains of a building destroyed in Israeli air raids in Gaza City.


----------



## Hollie

The glory of Islamist gee-had


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems riot at the border gee-had.

It’s what they do.

According to Gaza’s Hamas-run Health Ministry, 27 rioters were injured in the violence.

Ya’ Allah.


----------



## Hollie

I know you will find this as shocking as I did. 


Fighting for Control and Concessions: Hamas Pauses Border Riots to Quell Dissent

These riots were never spontaneous outbursts of grievances by ordinary people. Mass violence on the border is a largely top-down, organized terrorist initiative to provoke Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Israel responds to Islamic terrorist attacks.




Israel targets Hamas sites in Gaza following rocket fire
 13:54 | 12/08/19

Several Hamas sites in the Gaza Strip were struck by Israel Air Force jets on Saturday night after three rockets were fired from the Hamas control enclave toward southern Israel.

According to the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit, IAF jets and helicopters struck several terror targets, including a Hamas terrorist camp, including its warehouses, offices and security posts. In addition, a military position of the naval force of Hamas in the northern Gaza Strip was struck and destroyed.


----------



## Hollie

Oops. Islamic terrorists need more welfare.








Palestinians stand in front of a destroyed multi-storey building which was hit by Israeli air raids.


----------



## Hollie

*IPT Exclusive: Tlaib Meets with Another Terror Supporter*
*by Steven Emerson
IPT News

Islamic terrorist love-fest.

IPT Exclusive: Tlaib Meets with Another Terror Supporter*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

I happen to love Bible movies.  (Btw, all of them refer to the Land of Israel as Israel, not Palestine.)  But that's not the point I wanted to make.  Why do Arabs love to riot?  During the filming of the Tower of Babel sequence in Egypt, the Arabs there started to riot.  The producers should've filmed somewhere like Finland instead.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I happen to love Bible movies.  (Btw, all of them refer to the Land of Israel as Israel, not Palestine.)  But that's not the point I wanted to make.  Why do Arabs love to riot?  During the filming of the Tower of Babel sequence in Egypt, the Arabs there started to riot.  The producers should've filmed somewhere like Finland instead.



Oh, the movie was "The Bible" (1966).  Y'all can buy my book "Hollywood and the Bible" by Benjamin Sambul on Amazon.  The ebook is only $9.99.
The subtitle is "A History of the Bible in Motion Pictures."


----------



## Hollie




----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


>



Why are you showing this witch?


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you showing this witch?
Click to expand...


Because she’s a clown who is in office for no other reason than being the beneficiary of leftist identity politics.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Speaking at the Christmas tree lighting at Birzeit yesterday, Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh addressed the small crowd by talking about how proud they should be that the first Palestinian martyr who  identified as part of the student movement came from that village.

He then said, "Christmas is a Palestinian national holiday, and Christ was a Palestinian guerrilla, who stood against injustice."

The Arabic word he used for guerilla is "fidai", singular for "fedayeen" which is what Palestinians call terrorists who murder Jews.

Palestinian leaders have for years referred to Jesus as "Palestinian," a term he himself would not have recognized. Official media has even compared terrorists to Jesus. But this is the first time I can recall that a Palestinian leader has literally called Jesus the same word used for murderers.

(full article online)

Outrageous: Palestinian prime minister says "Christ was a Palestinian guerilla" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Speaking at the Christmas tree lighting at Birzeit yesterday, Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh addressed the small crowd by talking about how proud they should be that the first Palestinian martyr who  identified as part of the student movement came from that village.
> 
> He then said, "Christmas is a Palestinian national holiday, and Christ was a Palestinian guerrilla, who stood against injustice."
> 
> The Arabic word he used for guerilla is "fidai", singular for "fedayeen" which is what Palestinians call terrorists who murder Jews.
> 
> Palestinian leaders have for years referred to Jesus as "Palestinian," a term he himself would not have recognized. Official media has even compared terrorists to Jesus. But this is the first time I can recall that a Palestinian leader has literally called Jesus the same word used for murderers.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Outrageous: Palestinian prime minister says "Christ was a Palestinian guerilla" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


You are using the propaganda translation of fedayeen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking at the Christmas tree lighting at Birzeit yesterday, Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh addressed the small crowd by talking about how proud they should be that the first Palestinian martyr who  identified as part of the student movement came from that village.
> 
> He then said, "Christmas is a Palestinian national holiday, and Christ was a Palestinian guerrilla, who stood against injustice."
> 
> The Arabic word he used for guerilla is "fidai", singular for "fedayeen" which is what Palestinians call terrorists who murder Jews.
> 
> Palestinian leaders have for years referred to Jesus as "Palestinian," a term he himself would not have recognized. Official media has even compared terrorists to Jesus. But this is the first time I can recall that a Palestinian leader has literally called Jesus the same word used for murderers.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Outrageous: Palestinian prime minister says "Christ was a Palestinian guerilla" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> You are using the propaganda translation of fedayeen.
Click to expand...


You are using the propaganda translation of Islamic Terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin. 



Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza


Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.

We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.


----------



## Hollie

Why is it that Islamic terrorists all read from the same Islamic terrorist cue cards?
*


Hamas calls pre-dawn Israeli strikes in Gaza a 'dangerous step'*

*https://www.ynetnews.com/article/BJ8hWQ96B*

The IDF attacks come in response to at least 3 rockets, intercepted by the Iron Dome, fired at the southern city of Sderot just hours earlier; 'Israel must bear the consequences,' says the terror group in a statement 


Elior Levy , Yoav Zitun|
Updated: 12.08.19 , 09:43 
Hamas on Sunday called the overnight Israeli strikes in the Gaza Strip as a “dangerous step,” saying Israel "will bear the consequences" of its actions. 
The military struck the targets belonging to the terror group in a pre-dawn raid, in response to at least three rockets fired at the southern city of Sderot just hours earlier.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.


Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
Click to expand...


Yeah, terrorist war crimes, rockets fired at civilians, is a political problem. Durr.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
Click to expand...












"Political problem"...

Do you idiot ever have anything remotely intelligent to say,
besides these retarded one liners?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Political problem"...
> 
> Do you idiot ever have anything remotely intelligent to say,
> besides these retarded one liners?
Click to expand...

Israel has been shooting up Palestinian civilians for many decades and it has gotten them nowhere.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
Click to expand...


Israel is dealing with an islamic terrorist problem.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Political problem"...
> 
> Do you idiot ever have anything remotely intelligent to say,
> besides these retarded one liners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been shooting up Palestinian civilians for many decades and it has gotten them nowhere.
Click to expand...


I guess you're one of those who would stick his head into sand, leaving his bottom up,
and as a gesture of good welcome offer your family to the Jihadi filth.

"For a brighter future" of course...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Political problem"...
> 
> Do you idiot ever have anything remotely intelligent to say,
> besides these retarded one liners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been shooting up Palestinian civilians for many decades and it has gotten them nowhere.
Click to expand...


Actually, Israel has been defending against an islamic terrorist problem while establishing the State as an economic / technology leader. 

You folks can’t quite manage indoor plumbing. An Islamic terrorist enclave that survives on welfare.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what the Israeli defense Minister is saying is that Islamic terrorist attacks will be met with the delivery of generous _Islamic Terrorist Retirement Packages™️ _courtesy of Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett warns IDF will act at right time against terror groups in Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel’s Defense Minister Naftali Bennett warned terror groups in the Gaza Strip that the IDF will act at the right time in the blockaded coastal enclave during a visit to southern Israel after a night of rocket fire.
> 
> We need to move from a defensive approach to an attacking approach. Whatever we'll do - we'll do it at the right time - in the right way and with great power. No one will drag us to it. A good ruse is served cold, not when the blood is boiling and the other side waits of it.” he said during a visit to the college town of Sderot on Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Political problem"...
> 
> Do you idiot ever have anything remotely intelligent to say,
> besides these retarded one liners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been shooting up Palestinian civilians for many decades and it has gotten them nowhere.
Click to expand...


*Israel has been shooting up Palestinian civilians for many decades and it has gotten them nowhere. *

Muslims have been shooting at Israeli civilians for many decades and it has gotten them nowhere.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, no. Not *O**utbursts of Rage*™️

The MNN (Mullah News Network), is reporting that their occupation army, AKA Hamas, is angry. I thought Hamas was _always_ angry about something or other. 

Apparently, today’s *O**utburst of Rage*™️ has something to do with al-Aqua. As we know, al-Aqua is claimed to be islam’s 8,043rd “most holy site”. 
*
Hamas warns Israel of ‘upcoming outburst of rage’ over violations against al-Aqsa

PressTV*

*





^^^ *This clown looks pretty angry... I guess. It’s hard to tell an angry Islamic buffon in a burqa.

May I suggest they just “do an islam” and hire a really, really angry buffon?


How about this buffoon?
*






Now we’re talkin’
*


----------



## toomuchtime_

Sixties Fan said:


> Speaking at the Christmas tree lighting at Birzeit yesterday, Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh addressed the small crowd by talking about how proud they should be that the first Palestinian martyr who  identified as part of the student movement came from that village.
> 
> He then said, "Christmas is a Palestinian national holiday, and Christ was a Palestinian guerrilla, who stood against injustice."
> 
> The Arabic word he used for guerilla is "fidai", singular for "fedayeen" which is what Palestinians call terrorists who murder Jews.
> 
> Palestinian leaders have for years referred to Jesus as "Palestinian," a term he himself would not have recognized. Official media has even compared terrorists to Jesus. But this is the first time I can recall that a Palestinian leader has literally called Jesus the same word used for murderers.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Outrageous: Palestinian prime minister says "Christ was a Palestinian guerilla" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


There is nothing real about the so called Palestinians.  There is absolutely no correspondence between their narrative of events and the history the rest of the world understands.


----------



## Hollie

Israel responding to Islamic terrorist attacks from Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Odd, how a ceasefire with Islamic terrorists really means that the Islamic terrorists just attack with a few less rockets than before the ceasefire.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem squatters are babbling on with their usual blustering tirades. 


Palestinian Media Watch
About UsPMW ImpactSupport PMW

*Fatah: “We won’t relinquish a grain of soil… from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” *
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 9, 2019
*Fatah officials:*
*“We won’t relinquish a grain of soil from the land of historical Palestine 
from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” *
*“We are at the beginning of an ongoing confrontation,” 
Israel will leave as other “invaders” have*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Turkey announced this hospital to much fanfare in 2018, which was to be jointly run between Turkey and the PA, but it never opened due to financial and staff shortages. For some reason this was not considered a scandal.

Now, Shtayyeh is saying that he is negotiating with Turkey on finally opening this hospital. "We are in the final stages of agreeing with our Turkish friends to cover the operating expenses of this hospital," Shtayyeh said today.

It is hard to explain how petty and uncaring the Palestinian Authority is for its own people and how willing it is to use Palestinian lives for political purposes. This Turkish hospital has been empty and unused for an entire year, but only now that the PA wants to not look like idiots for opposing another Hamas-approved hospital does it make any moves to open the Turkish hospital.

Both the Turkish and American hospitals were approved by Israel, proving yet again that the Jewish state cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does.

(full article online)

Once again, Israel shows that it cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Turkey announced this hospital to much fanfare in 2018, which was to be jointly run between Turkey and the PA, but it never opened due to financial and staff shortages. For some reason this was not considered a scandal.
> 
> Now, Shtayyeh is saying that he is negotiating with Turkey on finally opening this hospital. "We are in the final stages of agreeing with our Turkish friends to cover the operating expenses of this hospital," Shtayyeh said today.
> 
> It is hard to explain how petty and uncaring the Palestinian Authority is for its own people and how willing it is to use Palestinian lives for political purposes. This Turkish hospital has been empty and unused for an entire year, but only now that the PA wants to not look like idiots for opposing another Hamas-approved hospital does it make any moves to open the Turkish hospital.
> 
> Both the Turkish and American hospitals were approved by Israel, proving yet again that the Jewish state cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Once again, Israel shows that it cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Why not just upgrade existing hospitals. That would make more sense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey announced this hospital to much fanfare in 2018, which was to be jointly run between Turkey and the PA, but it never opened due to financial and staff shortages. For some reason this was not considered a scandal.
> 
> Now, Shtayyeh is saying that he is negotiating with Turkey on finally opening this hospital. "We are in the final stages of agreeing with our Turkish friends to cover the operating expenses of this hospital," Shtayyeh said today.
> 
> It is hard to explain how petty and uncaring the Palestinian Authority is for its own people and how willing it is to use Palestinian lives for political purposes. This Turkish hospital has been empty and unused for an entire year, but only now that the PA wants to not look like idiots for opposing another Hamas-approved hospital does it make any moves to open the Turkish hospital.
> 
> Both the Turkish and American hospitals were approved by Israel, proving yet again that the Jewish state cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Once again, Israel shows that it cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just upgrade existing hospitals. That would make more sense.
Click to expand...


Why would the Arabs-Moslems do anything that made sense?


----------



## Hollie

The act of co-opting religious figures from faiths that preceded Islam has been a long, lurid tradition of Islamism. 

Islam’s inventor, Muhammud (swish), stole ruthlessly from both Judaism and Christianity in the formulation of the politico-religious ideology he cobbled together. 



In Christmas Message Palestinian PM Calls Jesus a “Palestinian Guerrilla Fighting Occupation”

A recent article in WAFA, a Palestinian news site, described a bizarre pre-Christmas ceremony in which Jesus was described as a “Palestinian guerrilla fighter” and the Arab Christians were presented with the greatest holiday gift: the Intifada and its martyrs.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey announced this hospital to much fanfare in 2018, which was to be jointly run between Turkey and the PA, but it never opened due to financial and staff shortages. For some reason this was not considered a scandal.
> 
> Now, Shtayyeh is saying that he is negotiating with Turkey on finally opening this hospital. "We are in the final stages of agreeing with our Turkish friends to cover the operating expenses of this hospital," Shtayyeh said today.
> 
> It is hard to explain how petty and uncaring the Palestinian Authority is for its own people and how willing it is to use Palestinian lives for political purposes. This Turkish hospital has been empty and unused for an entire year, but only now that the PA wants to not look like idiots for opposing another Hamas-approved hospital does it make any moves to open the Turkish hospital.
> 
> Both the Turkish and American hospitals were approved by Israel, proving yet again that the Jewish state cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Once again, Israel shows that it cares more about Palestinian lives than the Palestinian Authority does ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just upgrade existing hospitals. That would make more sense.
Click to expand...


*Why not just upgrade existing hospitals.*

The space they need to upgrade is already filled with rockets and explosives.


----------



## Sixties Fan

He is similarly fuzzy on Palestinian Arab motivation. He states, “Most of the [Palestinian Arab] volunteers were villagers and of the urban lower class, and…the economic motive played a central role in volunteering,” noting that these “motives…differed from [that of] their Jewish friends, who enlisted in the army mainly because of opposition to Nazi Germany and its racial policy toward their people, besides other motives such as the revival of a Jewish army, and the serious employment situation in the country at the beginning of the war.”

Compensation as the prevailing motivation for Palestinian Arab enlistment is supported by the evidence, but Abbasi claims their motives were in fact manifold and varied. Some Palestinian Arabs, he states, enlisted for ideological reasons, to express their opposition to Nazi ideology and loyalty to the British and their values. This motive was especially true of the urban elite and the intellectuals, he alleges, who were highly influenced by British education and culture. He does not substantiate this point sufficiently and ignores available evidence documenting contemporary Palestinian contempt for the British Army (see, for example, Prof. Kimberly Katz’s A Young Palestinian’s Diary 1941-1945, The Life of Sami Amr).

Abbasi laments that “there is hardly any reference to the thousands of Palestinian volunteers, some of whom fell in battle, while others are still listed as missing in action, and no commemoration of the fallen can be found anywhere.” He suggests this “evil” is explained by “what the Palestinian people experienced during the Nakba and its aftermath, the destruction of archives and records in addition to the loss of personal documents, and the fact that no organization was established to commemorate the volunteers and their deeds.” He thus accuses Israel of covering up the Palestinian Arab role in defeating the Nazis.

It should be noted that Abbasi persistently uses the term “Palestinians” rather than “Palestinian Arabs” in his article, starting with the title. This manipulation services the popular narrative denying any linkage between the Jewish People and Palestine. In her book World War II – The Story of a Jewish Soldier, Jewish Women of Mandatory Palestine Serving in the British Army, Esther Herlitz (later an Israeli diplomat and politician who served as a member of the Knesset) wrote, “As far as the British were concerned, we from the Jewish Yishuv, and some Arabs, were Palestinians.”

Academic research needs to be cautious and precise, particularly when the audience is not in a position to either challenge or verify its conclusions. Abbasi’s contribution to the study of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is one of the most contentious topics in the world, is an attempt to implant a “corrective” history and characterize the Palestinian Arabs as “good guys” who fought the Nazis rather than allying with Hitler.

The actual contribution, according to facts and evidence, of Palestinian Arab volunteers during WWII was marginal. In the early war years, the Axis countries appeared to be on the road to victory and a Nazi victory was perceived by many Arab leaders as an opportunity to achieve their aspirations—and none more so than the Mufti. In his prolonged and extensive interaction with the Nazi leadership, from its rise to power in 1933 to its downfall in 1945, he demanded not Palestinian-Arab independence but the creation of a vast Arab state, or rather empire, presumably headed by himself.

(full article online)

Palestinian Arab Volunteers in the British Army in WWII: A Reality Check


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The "We Support Jeremy Corbyn" Facebook page, which has 72,000 members, was run from the Gaza strip from 2017 until recently.*

(full article online)

Influential Corbyn-supporting Facebook page run by Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and pro-Hamas outlets are conducting an online campaign to help Jeremy Corbyn win the election. A Hamas propaganda outfit deploys armies of trolls to attack Jewish campaigners fighting antisemitism, they support Corbyn online, help to create pro-Corbyn trends and vote for him in online polls.

(full article online)

BUSTED - Hamas linked propaganda unit interfering in UK election


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to ex-Muslim terrorist, Jews and Muslims are quite different. And this is coming from a Muslim himself! Walid Shoebat said that Muslims teach hate, and Jews teach love. His own father was saved by a Jewish doctor, yet his father still considered him an enemy. As Shoebat was speaking to a crowd of Jews, he asked rhetorically, “The question is why do you still do it? Why do you still rescue us even though we want to murder you? Why do you hide your children while we put our children in the front to die so we can make propaganda?”


(full article online)

Ex-"Palestinian" terrorist asks a question to Jews and Muslims everywhere


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas’ Fatah Movement published this young girl’s message to US President Trump not to “defile” Jerusalem because it’s “ours.” The young girl has clearly absorbed the constant messaging by the Palestinian Authority, which rejects Jews/Israelis any rights to Jerusalem and denies that Jews had a history in Jerusalem. In the girl’s words, Jerusalem “was, is, and will remain our capital over the years, and we will not agree to our Jerusalem being defiled”: 


















(full article online)

Palestinian girl to "cursed Trump": "We won’t agree to our Jerusalem being defiled" | PMW Analysis


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas’ Fatah Movement published this young girl’s message to US President Trump not to “defile” Jerusalem because it’s “ours.” The young girl has clearly absorbed the constant messaging by the Palestinian Authority, which rejects Jews/Israelis any rights to Jerusalem and denies that Jews had a history in Jerusalem. In the girl’s words, Jerusalem “was, is, and will remain our capital over the years, and we will not agree to our Jerusalem being defiled”:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian girl to "cursed Trump": "We won’t agree to our Jerusalem being defiled" | PMW Analysis



Capital? At the rate they're going, their entire "state" will be smaller than Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

Another angry Mahmoud going off on a predictable rant.


Mahmoud Habbash, an advisor to PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said in a Friday, November 29, 2019 sermon that aired on Palestine TV that the entire world conspired against the Palestinian people to issue the United Nations Partition Plan in 1947. 

Video.
"Friday Sermon by Mahmoud Habbash, Advisor to PA President: The Forces of Colonialism Have Been Conspiring for Centuries to Plant Here a Foreign People with No Religious or Historical Connection to Palestine" 



When angry Mahmouds launch themselves into these silly tirades its best to tell them “keep your hands where I can see them” and let them humor themselves.


----------



## Hollie

It seems I woke up this morning at it was CE 634. The Islamic barbarians are spilling out of the Peninsula.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Transparency International has released a report on corruption in Middle East and North Africa countries, and the Palestinian Authority is regarded as one of the most corrupt in the region.

The most shocking result is in the area of government institutions demanding sexual favors from women in exchange for services.






(full article online)

Study: Palestinian government corruption second only to Lebanon in MENA; 21% aware of "sextortion" to receive services ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> Transparency International has released a report on corruption in Middle East and North Africa countries, and the Palestinian Authority is regarded as one of the most corrupt in the region.
> 
> The most shocking result is in the area of government institutions demanding sexual favors from women in exchange for services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Study: Palestinian government corruption second only to Lebanon in MENA; 21% aware of "sextortion" to receive services ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Why am I not surprised?  They would be even more corrupt if they were fully independent.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” have training films that teach their history of corruption, greed and thievery and guide the new thieves and Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Abu has a lot to smile about. He just exploits the failure of Arab-Moslems he steals from. 


*Palestinians Detail Their Corruption, Blame Israel*

*Palestinians Detail Their Corruption, Blame Israel
*
Palestinian Arab policy adviser reveals corruption deeply ingrained since before PA was even established, but blames 'occupation' for it.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.


This is what people like Tinmore call throwing stones.  It is the same weapon that David used to kill Goliath.


----------



## Hollie

*For Palestinian leaders, a legacy of corruption.*


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.



And the terrorists on the other side...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Someone’s feelings are hurt.

*Document Leak Shows Rampant Palestinian Corruption*
Leaked documents show PA officials demanding large sums of public money for personal use.

Document Leak Shows Rampant Palestinian Corruption


----------



## toastman

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
Click to expand...


For what it's worth Coyote, I am against such aggression. But I think you need to look up the definition of 'terrorism'


----------



## Coyote

toastman said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For what it's worth Coyote, I am against such aggression. But I think you need to look up the definition of 'terrorism'
Click to expand...


I know you are...

But if it's a Palestinian sending out incendiary kites or throwing stones or a settler throwing stones or burning olive trees, and the intent is to frighten and kill - it's the same.  When they fire bombed a house and burned a family to death - that IS terrorism.  It may not be at the same level of frequency, but it is still the same thing.


----------



## toastman

Coyote said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For what it's worth Coyote, I am against such aggression. But I think you need to look up the definition of 'terrorism'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know you are...
> 
> But if it's a Palestinian sending out incendiary kites or throwing stones or a settler throwing stones or burning olive trees, and the intent is to frighten and kill - it's the same.  When they fire bombed a house and burned a family to death - that IS terrorism.  It may not be at the same level of frequency, but it is still the same thing.
Click to expand...


The act itself is not what makes it terrorism, but the intent is. 

Personally, I don't believe that when settlers destroy olive trees, that it is to cause fear among the Palestinian population.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For what it's worth Coyote, I am against such aggression. But I think you need to look up the definition of 'terrorism'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know you are...
> 
> But if it's a Palestinian sending out incendiary kites or throwing stones or a settler throwing stones or burning olive trees, and the intent is to frighten and kill - it's the same.  When they fire bombed a house and burned a family to death - that IS terrorism.  It may not be at the same level of frequency, but it is still the same thing.
Click to expand...


The problem with this statement is that it's all based on fake media spins.
I have brought this several times before You, in other publications that have been proven evidently false, and in this one.

No one has been charged with the murder. I know You can flaunt headlines,
but the facts remain - the court ruled expressly removing all connection to the family death, and there's variety of documented evidence that was prior investigated by police, that showed history of arson during family disputes in the village, as well as documented testimonies from the residents themselves that this was done by other residents.

Here's one of them just several month ago:

Duma resident: "It's nonsense, leave it"
Investigator: What's nonsense? What was there? It wasn't the Jews who did.
Resident of Duma: No no yaZalame, nothing."

Then the he tells the version of the village residents to what happened that night.

Duma resident: The first arson wasn't for them. Not for them at all!

Investigator: What does it mean not for them?
Duma resident: "Like they don't go straight to burn their house. Now there's a man, was working with Jews, was a thief and troublemaker. Now he buys a house in Shchem. Now he always says I'm in Shchem I'm in a restaurant. They call him this and that. So people knew this house was empty. The house of this man they went to burn it...so someone burnt the house of that thief, thought they saw and knew who made the arson, so they burnt it, so they don't talk about how did burnt the house.Understand me?"

Another participant: "Ah, they wanted then, actually the kid that was burnt and the parents - they wanted them to die not to speak?"

Duma resident: "Aiwah (exactly)"

The village resident was as well documented saying the police didn't charge witness or evidence from the village residents in this issue.


----------



## Hollie

Another look into the gaping maw of Islamic terrorists / thieves.


*Leaked documents raise anger over Palestinian corruption*

*Leaked documents raise anger over Palestinian corruption
*
Abbas has been criticised for ignoring corruption among his loyalists while targeting political rivals


One document signed by Majdi Al Khaldi, a diplomatic adviser to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas who accompanies him on his trips to world capitals, asked a Gulf country’s foreign minister for $4 million (Dh14.6 million) to fund a private neighbourhood complex for Palestinian officials in an upscale area of Ramallah in the West Bank. He insisted the complex was “meant to resist the Israeli [colonies],” even though there are no colonies where the complex was built.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
Click to expand...


There're many provocateurs on the ground, coming with armies of photographers that are funded by foreign governments to make stories - best known as Pallywood.











And in-spite sounding serious "Rabbis for Human Rights" are entirely funded by foreign governments and several Churches...and beside *faking reports* right and left, have also been documented in *passing funds *to an activist of another foreign agent who's main activity is to snitch on Arabs who sell property to Jews to be tortured and later executed by the PA.

Instead of relying on questionable sources like Haaretz and foreign NGO's like that, that are a megaphone of the Palestinian propaganda, I suggest a more self-respecting fact based publication of the traditional Left in Israel - Ma'ariv, which is both critical of the current admin. and factual, or at least has such reputation.
Maariv (newspaper) - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
Click to expand...


And the false equivalency...

Let's not confuse the lawless actions of a few israelis with an orchestrated, organized and systematic campaign of murder / suicide maintained by an islamic terrorist infrastructure.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Somehow, it seems _racist_ or maybe even _islamophobic _to suggest that Arab-Moslem failures and ineptitude are the result of their own actions. 


CORRUPTION: A MAJOR CAUSE OF PALESTINIAN SUFFERING - DOCUMENTARY

Corruption: A major cause of Palestinian suffering - documentary


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem rights are human rights.... in the upside down realm of islamic fascism. 






A Nazi swastika flag raised on the Israel-Gaza Strip border


----------



## Coyote

toastman said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing the only thing they know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the terrorists on the other side...
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...83ca08-ff3b-11e9-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For what it's worth Coyote, I am against such aggression. But I think you need to look up the definition of 'terrorism'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know you are...
> 
> But if it's a Palestinian sending out incendiary kites or throwing stones or a settler throwing stones or burning olive trees, and the intent is to frighten and kill - it's the same.  When they fire bombed a house and burned a family to death - that IS terrorism.  It may not be at the same level of frequency, but it is still the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The act itself is not what makes it terrorism, but the intent is. *
> 
> Personally, I don't believe that when settlers destroy olive trees, that it is to cause fear among the Palestinian population.
Click to expand...


Totally agree, intent matters.  But I disagree that the intent is not to terrify and drive out the local population.


----------



## Coyote

There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.  

Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.

Ali is On the Grill’:
Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives

Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.



It shows your hypocrisy that while knowing no-one was yet convicted in the Dawabshe family death and that the testimonies were invalidated,  you look for headlines that put the blame on Jews.

And no, people who point to facts are not bad, or support the murder of the family,
those who vulgarly use their loss and knowingly spread blood libels are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.





Coyote said:


> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.


These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.


----------



## Coyote

rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.




P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
Click to expand...

Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
Click to expand...


Like when the family throws a woman from the hospital balcony, for daring to post a picture with her fiance on Facebook?

Or the one when you guys blame Jews for Arabs beating their wives?

'No honour in murder': Honour killings are a problem and we know it


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Coyote said:


> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
Click to expand...


They don't try to root it out.  On the contrary, the PA has an official "pay to slay" program, whereby terrorists and their families are rewarded handsomely, in the financial sense.


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't try to root it out.  On the contrary, the PA has an official "pay to slay" program, whereby terrorists and their families are rewarded handsomely, in the financial sense.
Click to expand...

Agree.  They incentivize terrorist acts that any civilized nation would condemn as murder.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
Click to expand...

Ignorant and just plain dishonest. The islamic terrorist infrastructure of the PA has an entire network of programs and practices to reward the misfit killers they groom from childhood.


----------



## Hollie

The farce that is the UN.

Rewarding islamic terrorism.


UN neutrality at its worst: Ignore the PA's "Pay for Slay" policy, and ask the world for funding | PMW Analysis
*UN neutrality at its worst: Ignore the PA's "Pay for Slay" policy, and ask the world for funding*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 12, 2019


Today the UN marks International Neutrality Day, stressing that “Neutrality is critical for the UN to gain & maintain the confidence & cooperation of all.” In direct contrast to this statement, just yesterday, Dec. 11, 2019, the UN together with the Palestinian Authority launched a $348 million appeal “to address critical humanitarian needs of Palestinians.”


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
Click to expand...


Facts remain the same, the court explicitly gave a ruling (which is neither the final one) that excludes the Jewish teenager from connection to Duma and several other accusations against him.

That you want to deflect from this projecting what I may do in an alternative reality,
and keep accusing Jews shows more your motivation than my standards.
Accuse me of double standards while you accuse people of what the court didn't because they're Jews, while knowing it to be false.

The Israeli community condemned, jailed the suspects, and organized prayer throughout the country for the recovery of the family in hospital.

So It's not about supporting such an action, rather along the process was revealed much of history and evidence by the residents themselves that make many in the Israeli public reluctant to concluding their opinion based on media spins before the hearings even ended.

Yet you accuse their valid criticism as the same prejudice that you're using against that is rather based on projecting ethnic character than on facts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is had to imagine a less tolerant state than the one that Palestinians in the PA and Hamas controlled areas themselves want - these numbers are in Taliban territory.

These so-called progressives do not lift a finger to help Palestinians change their xenophobic, antisemitic and intolerant attitudes. Instead, they are gaslighting uninformed liberals in the West into thinking a Palestinian state would be a beacon of light and equality.

The entire initiative is meant to ethnically cleanse Jews from the area. Indeed, nowhere in the entire website does it even pretend to say that Jews would live as equals in the Palestinian state they "demand." This is intolerance disguised as progressivism, and it is a shame that so few true liberals call them on it.

(full article online)

Palestinian Americans and Leftist Jews push vision of a Jew-free (and improbably progressive) "Palestine" from the river to the sea ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Coyote

Lkj


rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts remain the same, the court explicitly gave a ruling (which is neither the final one) that excludes the Jewish teenager from connection to Duma and several other accusations against him.
> 
> That you want to deflect from this projecting what I may do in an alternative reality,
> and keep accusing Jews shows more your motivation than my standards.
> Accuse me of double standards while you accuse people of what the court didn't because they're Jews, while knowing it to be false.
> 
> The Israeli community condemned, jailed the suspects, and organized prayer throughout the country for the recovery of the family in hospital.
> 
> So It's not about supporting such an action, rather along the process was revealed much of history and evidence by the residents themselves that make many in the Israeli public reluctant to concluding their opinion based on media spins before the hearings even ended.
> 
> Yet you accuse their valid criticism as the same prejudice that you're using against that is rather based on projecting ethnic character than on facts.
Click to expand...


Court deems Duma attack accomplice a terror group member

Lorch pointed out that during his interrogation, the teen divulged that “the ultimate goal is the establishment of a state that will run in the light of Torah authority… There is no room at all for the Gentiles… and if they do not leave then they should be killed.”

In addition to planning the Duma firebombing, the May plea agreement saw the far-right activist admit to having carried out three other hate crimes targeting Palestinians: torching a garage next to a residence in the northern West Bank village of Aqraba, torching a taxi in the nearby town of Yasuf, and slashing tires on cars in the East Jerusalem Arab neighborhood of Beit Safafa.





He is a terrorist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority set up an anti-corruption commission about 14 years ago to supposedly fight corruption. The building looks very impressive. But how did the commission respond to this survey?

With denial and whining, of course.

Instead of saying that they will study the matter, they said that the methodology of the report was bad (many Arab countries were not included so they say their rankings aren't really so bad.)

They blame the sextortion reports in the survey as being all in Gaza under Hamas, and nothing to do with their bosses in Ramallah.

It said, "The report does not reflect the reality, and came in light of the cut in salaries and the difficult conditions experienced by the Palestinian people."

In short, the commission whose entire job is to root out corruption washed its hands of having to investigate a major report of corruption.

For all of the hundreds of reporters and NGOs in Israel and in the Palestinian territories, no one seems much interested in reporting stories like this. Corruption in an entity that receives billions of dollars from the West is not considered as newsworthy as Jews building a house.

(full article online)

Palestinian anti-corruption commission dismisses reports of corruption. Of course. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts remain the same, the court explicitly gave a ruling (which is neither the final one) that excludes the Jewish teenager from connection to Duma and several other accusations against him.
> 
> That you want to deflect from this projecting what I may do in an alternative reality,
> and keep accusing Jews shows more your motivation than my standards.
> Accuse me of double standards while you accuse people of what the court didn't because they're Jews, while knowing it to be false.
> 
> *The Israeli community condemned, jailed the suspects, and organized prayer throughout the country for the recovery of the family in hospital.*
> 
> So It's not about supporting such an action, rather along the process was revealed much of history and evidence by the residents themselves that make many in the Israeli public reluctant to concluding their opinion based on media spins before the hearings even ended.
> 
> Yet you accuse their valid criticism as the same prejudice that you're using against that is rather based on projecting ethnic character than on facts.
Click to expand...


Yes. And I have pointed out the actions of these extremists are not supported by most Israeli's (unlike the case with the Palestinians) but they do enjoy powerful political support from enablers like you who try to insist it was just a Palestinian feud.


----------



## Hollie

The end results of identity politics. 


Rep. Rashida Tlaib Blames “White Supremacy” For Shooting Carried Out by Member of Black Supremacist Group


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Lkj
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts remain the same, the court explicitly gave a ruling (which is neither the final one) that excludes the Jewish teenager from connection to Duma and several other accusations against him.
> 
> That you want to deflect from this projecting what I may do in an alternative reality,
> and keep accusing Jews shows more your motivation than my standards.
> Accuse me of double standards while you accuse people of what the court didn't because they're Jews, while knowing it to be false.
> 
> The Israeli community condemned, jailed the suspects, and organized prayer throughout the country for the recovery of the family in hospital.
> 
> So It's not about supporting such an action, rather along the process was revealed much of history and evidence by the residents themselves that make many in the Israeli public reluctant to concluding their opinion based on media spins before the hearings even ended.
> 
> Yet you accuse their valid criticism as the same prejudice that you're using against that is rather based on projecting ethnic character than on facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Court deems Duma attack accomplice a terror group member
> 
> Lorch pointed out that during his interrogation, the teen divulged that “the ultimate goal is the establishment of a state that will run in the light of Torah authority… There is no room at all for the Gentiles… and if they do not leave then they should be killed.”
> 
> In addition to planning the Duma firebombing, the May plea agreement saw the far-right activist admit to having carried out three other hate crimes targeting Palestinians: torching a garage next to a residence in the northern West Bank village of Aqraba, torching a taxi in the nearby town of Yasuf, and slashing tires on cars in the East Jerusalem Arab neighborhood of Beit Safafa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is a terrorist.
Click to expand...


As I said you can flaunt media spins, but the ruling acquitted him of any connection to Duma.

He was investigated in this connection but all that was removed from the court ruling,
which is up to an additional hearing.

You're not holding to this case dearly because you have a valid argument,
but rather a last resort to hold at the claim of any sort of equivalency along the way
to deflect from the facts.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> rylah Your comment would only carry meaning if you applied the same standard to Palestinians but you dont.  So cut the "blood libel" crap.  There is significant evidence built up in the Dumas case, were it a Palestinian who murdered a Jewish family we would not be having this conversation because he would then be presumed guilty by you.  The presumption of innocence depends on ethnicity not principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are bad people and good people in all groups.   And there are people who will  endlessly make excuses for evil acts from their own side.
> 
> Israel recognizes a serious problem with extremist settlers, as do their moderate settler peers, but they enjoy powerful political protection and the support of enablers.  Kudos to Israel for pursuing this despite political resistance.  Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.  If it was a Palestinian, in Israeli custody,  he would be tried and convicted, the pro-pal side would proclaim innocence and police abuse....kind of like some of the pro-Israel side here.
> 
> Ali is On the Grill’:
> Jewish extremists taunt ‘Ali’s on the grill’ at slain toddler’s relatives
> 
> Extremist Jewish settler who burnt alive Dawabsheh family acquitted : Peoples Dispatch
> He admitted to planning the torching of a Palestinian home in a racially motivated conspiracy and to marking out the Palestinian village with another co-accused. In exchange, he escaped conviction for planning the family’s murder, but he will be convicted of conspiracy to commit arson in a racially motivated crime, as well as being involved in other hate crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian authorities fail in this regard when it comes to murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These attacks happen in Israeli controlled areas. The PA has no authority there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.  But what happens when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism...does the PA work with the authorities to capture him? Do they condemn it, work to root it out?  Just curious...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts remain the same, the court explicitly gave a ruling (which is neither the final one) that excludes the Jewish teenager from connection to Duma and several other accusations against him.
> 
> That you want to deflect from this projecting what I may do in an alternative reality,
> and keep accusing Jews shows more your motivation than my standards.
> Accuse me of double standards while you accuse people of what the court didn't because they're Jews, while knowing it to be false.
> 
> *The Israeli community condemned, jailed the suspects, and organized prayer throughout the country for the recovery of the family in hospital.*
> 
> So It's not about supporting such an action, rather along the process was revealed much of history and evidence by the residents themselves that make many in the Israeli public reluctant to concluding their opinion based on media spins before the hearings even ended.
> 
> Yet you accuse their valid criticism as the same prejudice that you're using against that is rather based on projecting ethnic character than on facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. And I have pointed out the actions of these extremists are not supported by most Israeli's (unlike the case with the Palestinians) but they do enjoy powerful political support from enablers like you who try to insist it was just a Palestinian feud.
Click to expand...


You keep saying the guy had something to do with Duma, when the court expressly acquitted him of any connection, and ordered another hearing.  

All these ridiculous accusations about me or any politician enabling such an act is just more demagoguery to deflect from facts.


----------



## wasrose

Hollie said:


> The end results of identity politics.
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib Blames “White Supremacy” For Shooting Carried Out by Member of Black Supremacist Group




for the record-----I am so old that I remember when arabs were Caucasian.   In fact---
I have worked with lots of muslims------real muslims from real Islamic lands in
the middle east,  southeast asia,   one from Bosnia,  and even one from
Saudi arabia.     several from Iran.      None were  "people of color"  -----all
were "white"   and had a remarkable level of disdain for "persons of African
descent-----of the dark skinned variety"---including converts to islam.      "Palestinian"
muslims-----even before they were so renamed-----were also CAUCASIAN ----
as was muhummad who was so described in  DA KORAN ----and absolutely
NOT  an.......ABED.    I wonder when  Rashida turned  "abed".     Has anyone
claimed that picture is photo-shopped------c'mon---even I suspect it


----------



## rylah

wasrose said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end results of identity politics.
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib Blames “White Supremacy” For Shooting Carried Out by Member of Black Supremacist Group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the record-----I am so old that I remember when arabs were Caucasian.   In fact---
> I have worked with lots of muslims------real muslims from real Islamic lands in
> the middle east,  southeast asia,   one from Bosnia,  and even one from
> Saudi arabia.     several from Iran.      None were  "people of color"  -----all
> were "white"   and had a remarkable level of disdain for "persons of African
> descent-----of the dark skinned variety"---including converts to islam.      "Palestinian"
> muslims-----even before they were so renamed-----were also CAUCASIAN ----
> as was muhummad who was so described in  DA KORAN ----and absolutely
> NOT  an.......ABED.    I wonder when  Rashida turned  "abed".     Has anyone
> claimed that picture is photo-shopped------c'mon---even I suspect it
Click to expand...








In Jerusalem alone Muslim inhabitants spoke *more foreign languages,*
than all the Jewish immigrants all together.


----------



## wasrose

rylah said:


> wasrose said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end results of identity politics.
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib Blames “White Supremacy” For Shooting Carried Out by Member of Black Supremacist Group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the record-----I am so old that I remember when arabs were Caucasian.   In fact---
> I have worked with lots of muslims------real muslims from real Islamic lands in
> the middle east,  southeast asia,   one from Bosnia,  and even one from
> Saudi arabia.     several from Iran.      None were  "people of color"  -----all
> were "white"   and had a remarkable level of disdain for "persons of African
> descent-----of the dark skinned variety"---including converts to islam.      "Palestinian"
> muslims-----even before they were so renamed-----were also CAUCASIAN ----
> as was muhummad who was so described in  DA KORAN ----and absolutely
> NOT  an.......ABED.    I wonder when  Rashida turned  "abed".     Has anyone
> claimed that picture is photo-shopped------c'mon---even I suspect it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims living in Jerusalem alone,
> spoke *more foreign languages* than all the Jewish immigrants all together.
Click to expand...


thanks----that little thing on the left looks like hubby when he lived in rishon
l'tzion------circa 1950


----------



## wasrose

wasrose said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wasrose said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end results of identity politics.
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib Blames “White Supremacy” For Shooting Carried Out by Member of Black Supremacist Group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the record-----I am so old that I remember when arabs were Caucasian.   In fact---
> I have worked with lots of muslims------real muslims from real Islamic lands in
> the middle east,  southeast asia,   one from Bosnia,  and even one from
> Saudi arabia.     several from Iran.      None were  "people of color"  -----all
> were "white"   and had a remarkable level of disdain for "persons of African
> descent-----of the dark skinned variety"---including converts to islam.      "Palestinian"
> muslims-----even before they were so renamed-----were also CAUCASIAN ----
> as was muhummad who was so described in  DA KORAN ----and absolutely
> NOT  an.......ABED.    I wonder when  Rashida turned  "abed".     Has anyone
> claimed that picture is photo-shopped------c'mon---even I suspect it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims living in Jerusalem alone,
> spoke *more foreign languages* than all the Jewish immigrants all together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> thanks----that little thing on the left looks like hubby when he lived in rishon
> l'tzion------circa 1950
Click to expand...


I should add-----hubby is now called white------even though he is a few shades
darker than is rashida------and that other "brown" thing-----sarsour.     Do
freckles count-------I could manage to grow some again if I stay out in the sun---
even the winter sun on a really bright day.


----------



## rylah

wasrose said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wasrose said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end results of identity politics.
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib Blames “White Supremacy” For Shooting Carried Out by Member of Black Supremacist Group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the record-----I am so old that I remember when arabs were Caucasian.   In fact---
> I have worked with lots of muslims------real muslims from real Islamic lands in
> the middle east,  southeast asia,   one from Bosnia,  and even one from
> Saudi arabia.     several from Iran.      None were  "people of color"  -----all
> were "white"   and had a remarkable level of disdain for "persons of African
> descent-----of the dark skinned variety"---including converts to islam.      "Palestinian"
> muslims-----even before they were so renamed-----were also CAUCASIAN ----
> as was muhummad who was so described in  DA KORAN ----and absolutely
> NOT  an.......ABED.    I wonder when  Rashida turned  "abed".     Has anyone
> claimed that picture is photo-shopped------c'mon---even I suspect it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims living in Jerusalem alone,
> spoke *more foreign languages* than all the Jewish immigrants all together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> thanks----that little thing on the left looks like hubby when he lived in rishon
> l'tzion------circa 1950
Click to expand...


Didn't You notice the close similarity davka between furthest of diaspora communities,
the Jahnun eaters in the south Arabian peninsula and the Kugel eaters in eastern Europe?
The closest typical pronunciation, big side locks, and synagogue garb.

Iraqis and Moroccans have always been kinda in between, both geographically and in attitude, that has become an integral part at the center of Israeli identity without even realizing how its taken for granted.

Yet racist bigots categorize Israelis as white European colonialists fighting poor brown Muslims, when those Muslims came from the same countries where they expelled Jews.


----------



## Coyote

What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth. 

How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.
> 
> How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?



When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.

Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off, 
while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.

This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".

In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?


----------



## Zorro!

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas and pro-Hamas outlets are conducting an online campaign to help Jeremy Corbyn win the election. A Hamas propaganda outfit deploys armies of trolls to attack Jewish campaigners fighting antisemitism, they support Corbyn online, help to create pro-Corbyn trends and vote for him in online polls.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> BUSTED - Hamas linked propaganda unit interfering in UK election


Well that worked well.

HE WENT FULL INTERNATIONALIST SOCIALIST. AND HE GOT EXACTLY WHAT HE DESERVED. … WELL, EXCEPT FOR FAILING TO GET WHIPPED WHILE WALKING BAREFOOT THROUGH THE LARGEST CITIES IN GREAT BRITAIN, TIED TO A DONKEY’S TAIL. UNFORTUNATELY THE ENGLISH DON’T DO THINGS LIKE THAT ANYMORE:  Corbyn Buried in Conservative Landslide.

FLASHBACK: “Jeremy Corbyn’s success is a model for American progressives,” the Fake News _Washington Post_ claimed in June of 2017.

“Britain’s Jeremy Corbyn: I got my ideas from Bernie Sanders,” the _Post_ in July of 2017.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are making some of the usual pronouncements about glorious gee-had. 

Such pompous posturing. 
*


PA ministry: First Palestinian terror wave was "glorious", Fatah pledges to use same "modus operandi"
*
*Fatah encourages more violence and terror, pledging it continues the “popular resistance… while relying on the modus operandi of the great popular intifada”

Official PA daily: “The blessed Intifada”

Fatah glorifies first terror wave and arch-terrorist Abu Jihad: "There is no voice that rises above the voice of the Intifada"
*
*PA ministry: First Palestinian terror wave was "glorious", Fatah pledges to use same "modus operandi" | PMW Analysis
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 13, 2019


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Unchanged since 632 CE.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


>



Supporting terrorism, it's a feature, not a bug.


----------



## Hollie

*New Zealand Halts Aid to Palestinian UN Agency Over Corruption*


_






_


----------



## Hollie

Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
_




Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_


----------



## Hollie

U.N.'s Own Audit Found UNRWA Vulnerable to "Graft and Corruption" - UN Watch


A flurry of statements and articles by Sweden, the New York Times, and Foreign Policy, want us to believe that a U.S. reduction in its $360 million annual funding of UNRWA would bring humanitarian disaster and threaten international peace and stability. But according to a little-known internal audit, the United Nations itself found that UNRWA was particularly vulnerable to “misappropriation, graft and corruption” in its “procurement, partner selection, food and cash distribution, hiring and promotions, and other areas.” The U.N. audit also found that UNRWA’s oversight arrangements were deficient.


----------



## Hollie

Masked Palestinian members of Hamas take part in a West Bank rally to celebrate Israel's pullout from the Gaza Strip in September 2005.



Billions of dollars in welfare money given to islamic terrorist misfits since the Israeli withdraw from Gaza. 

All for nothing.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.
> 
> How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.
> 
> Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
> Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off,
> while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.
> 
> This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".
> 
> In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?
Click to expand...


B.S.  And I mean TOTAL B.S,  this assumption that Palestinian kids couldn't possibly have gone through what these Jewish kids CLAIM to have gone through is so laughable...in fact, it's a total farce.

First:  did Shin Bet use torture?

If YES - then YES - it is wrong.

Do we agree on that point?

If torture WAS used...then, there is the uncomfortable question.  And - maybe this addresses your preconceived notions on Palestinians?

If torture was used...well shouldn't the SAME STANDARD be applied to Palestinian suspects who's confessions were coerced at the hands of the Shin Bet?  Or does that only apply to Jewish kids?

Personally - I disapprove of torture all around.  Period.  NO exceptions.

How about you?


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_



I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
Click to expand...


I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today. 

Yours truly,

The Dirty Kuffar.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
Click to expand...


No.

Not at all.

Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.

Thanks for clarifying


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
Click to expand...


You could convince me otherwise. Consider doing some outreach to the pious Moslems in Islamic gee-had. Maybe approach one of those pious Moslems who is pointing the business end of an AK-47 in your face and explain to him how his reading of Islam and his understanding of the Koran is misguided and incorrect. 

Keep in touch as to how that goes.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.
> 
> How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.
> 
> Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
> Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off,
> while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.
> 
> This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".
> 
> In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B.S.  And I mean TOTAL B.S,  this assumption that Palestinian kids couldn't possibly have gone through what these Jewish kids CLAIM to have gone through is so laughable...in fact, it's a total farce.
> 
> First:  did Shin Bet use torture?
> 
> If YES - then YES - it is wrong.
> 
> Do we agree on that point?
> 
> If torture WAS used...then, there is the uncomfortable question.  And - maybe this addresses your preconceived notions on Palestinians?
> 
> If torture was used...well shouldn't the SAME STANDARD be applied to Palestinian suspects who's confessions were coerced at the hands of the Shin Bet?  Or does that only apply to Jewish kids?
> 
> Personally - I disapprove of torture all around.  Period.  NO exceptions.
> 
> How about you?
Click to expand...

What is wrong with you?  You have no information about torture being used on children and yet you go on and on about it as if it were an established fact.  The fact is this, Palestinian children are encouraged to commit acts of terrorism and to violently confront Israelis by their entire culture, and a terrorist is a terrorist to his victims regardless of his age and a person who violently confronts an Israeli soldier is a danger to that soldier regardless of his age.  If you want to complain about what is happening to Palestinians children, complain about their parents who encourage them to commit acts of terror and to violently confront Israeli soldiers, complain about the Palestinian schools that teach Palestinian children to look up to terrorists, complain about Palestinian mosques that teach children to hate Jews and encourage them to fight them, complain about the Palestinian government that celebrates acts of terrorism again Jews and pays children as well as adults to kill Jews.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
Click to expand...

Taken as a group, there is nothing good to say about them.  While there may be some Palestinians who are not crazy with hate, if they speak up, they are called collaborators and likely will be killed.  So why are you so enamoured of a society that destroys its own people and is driven by a  passion to destroy others?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
Click to expand...


Wait. Is there are tit for tat requirement for all posters here to post balanced views and one-for-one “good” articles vs “bad” articles?  

Is there a requirement for everyone to say something “good” about the opposing side?

Did I miss the post where you called out Tinmore for this? 

And is Hollie required to assume some sort of redemption BEFORE a CHANGE in behaviour? Hollie tends to post about people doing things. Performing acts. People don’t get redeemed for performing acts of evil. They don’t even get redeemed for ignoring acts of evil. 

Hollie also goes out of her way to point out the leadership of Hamas as being the problem.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
Click to expand...


You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.

Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.

Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.

The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.

This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.

(full article online)

Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth


----------



## Sixties Fan

*How Does Hamas Get New Weapons?*

Hamas made extraordinary efforts to establish its local arms industry, but it still must receive infusions of weapons and technology to sustain its war against Israel. But, specific components such as fiberglass, targeting kits, and surveillance equipment for drones are beyond their ability to manufacture.

Truck convoys bearing weapons believed headed to the Egyptian-Gaza border were blasted in Sudan in 2009 and 2012 by aircraft, presumably from Israel.4 The Hamas-Iranian connection attempted to provide munitions via huge shipments onboard cargo ships like the Klos-C (2014) and the Victoria (2011) and through tunnels that originated on the Egyptian side of the Gaza border. The ships were intercepted, and it is believed most supply tunnels were destroyed by Egypt or Israeli bombs. But there is little doubt that some subterranean smuggling continues.





Missiles and mortars found on the Klos-C in 2014 after it was intercepted by the Israeli Navy.
So, how can a terrorist organization and its Iranian patron supplement its arms supply?

(full article online)

Hamas Obtains New Weaponry Anyway It Can


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth


Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.
Click to expand...


Maybe one of your Press TV YouTube videos to clarify things.


----------



## Hollie

What better way for Arabs-Moslems to celebrate the founding of the Islamic terrorists franchise that has helped to keep them retrograde and ideologically bankrupt?

Yes - do what they usually do and make their miserable lives even more retrograde and miserable. 
*
Gazans clash with IDF troops along border as Hamas marks 32 years since founding
*
Army vehicle hit by molotov cocktail but no injuries to troops; 5 Palestinians said hurt; senior Hamas member: Israeli captives won’t be freed ‘until our prisoners see the light’
13 December 2019, 6:22 pm


----------



## Hollie

Gee. If we just showered them with more welfare money,.. well, wait. 

Hasn’t showering antagonistic Islamic terrorist franchises with kuffar welfare dollars been a complete waste of resources for the last several decades?


Palestinian Authority arrests scores of Hamas supporters

The Palestinian Authority security forces have arrested dozens of Hamas supporters in the West Bank in the past few days.

The arrests came as Hamas celebrated the 32nd anniversary of its founding by holding mass rallies in the Gaza Strip.

At least 66 Hamas supporters have been arrested or summoned for interrogation by PA security forces in recent days, according to Hamas spokesman Abdel Rahman Shadid.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
Click to expand...


I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait.* Is there are tit for tat requirement for all posters here to post balanced views and one-for-one “good” articles vs “bad” articles?  *
Click to expand...


Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).



> Is there a requirement for everyone to say something “good” about the opposing side?



How is asking a simple question a "requirement"?



> Did I miss the post where you called out Tinmore for this?



I've criticized Tinmoe.  Do you criticize Holly?  Come on.



> And is Hollie required to assume some sort of redemption BEFORE a CHANGE in behaviour? Hollie tends to post about people doing things. Performing acts. People don’t get redeemed for performing acts of evil. They don’t even get redeemed for ignoring acts of evil.



Hollie can post what ever she wants just like Tinmore and you are free to defend it and support it.  Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).



> Hollie also goes out of her way to point out the leadership of Hamas as being the problem.



She also goes out of her way to portray ALL of Islam as being the problem.

I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.
Click to expand...


And a good example of denying a people's history.  Deconstruct it.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hero of the UNRWA Welfare Fraud.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporters of the Fatah movement hold up a portrait of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during a rally_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
Click to expand...


No, I don't think you do.  

See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.

When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.  

The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a good example of denying a people's history.  Deconstruct it.
Click to expand...

The Zionist's *stated goal* was to transfer the Palestinians out and create an exclusive Jewish state. The Palestinians knew this. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled *before* any Arab army entered Palestine.

Yet Israel still denies that it was the aggressor.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a good example of denying a people's history.  Deconstruct it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionist's *stated goal* was to transfer the Palestinians out and create an exclusive Jewish state. The Palestinians knew this. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled *before* any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Yet Israel still denies that it was the aggressor.
Click to expand...

As is so often the case with your posts, none of this is true.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).


I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.  



> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).


I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.



> I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.


Of course.  So disagree with her.  What you don't have the right to do, in my humble opinion, is try to silence her or shame her into posting a more "balanced" point of view.  Its an odd reversal on the "Jews are uniquely and irredeemably evil" trope -- the idea that Jews have to prove that they are actually "good" by posting "good" things.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a good example of denying a people's history.  Deconstruct it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionist's *stated goal* was to transfer the Palestinians out and create an exclusive Jewish state. The Palestinians knew this. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled *before* any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Yet Israel still denies that it was the aggressor.
Click to expand...


_The Zionist's *stated goal* was to transfer the Palestinians out _

They failed......millions of Palestinians still lounging around.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
Click to expand...


I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).



> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> 
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
Click to expand...

[/quote]

I get frustrated by it at times.  My issue with Holly is not just her constant negative portrayal of Palestinians but that she makes it about Islam in entirety implying Muslims are a pedo religion etc.  When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.


> I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  So disagree with her.  *What you don't have the right to do, in my humble opinion, is try to silence her* *or shame her into posting a more "balanced" point of view. * Its an odd reversal on the "Jews are uniquely and irredeemably evil" trope -- the idea that Jews have to prove that they are actually "good" by posting "good" things.
Click to expand...


Ok.  That is a valid point, but why don't you apply that when I am accused of always demonizing Israel?  It does get rather old seems to be one sided imo.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious Hollie.  Do you ever have anything good to say about Palestinians?  Are they all without redemption evil in your eyes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
Click to expand...


I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.

*


----------



## Coyote

I think some of the problem Shusha is you don't go out of IP and see what others post elsewhere on the boards and I do, so that informs my opinions on some of the "Pro-Israel" side.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As time has passed, Nakba Day (lit. “Day of Catastrophe”) has become the most actively performed ritual of the Palestinian myth, a myth that has assured for itself the most essential support of the West, a ritual that provokes the hatred that has been aroused throughout the Muslim world.
> 
> Each year it revives a flurry of literature, or to put it more crudely, a lie.
> 
> Hidden behind the exodus of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 war, which this ritual commemorates every year, is the effective war of extermination launched by many Arab countries against the Jews in the young state of Israel. The Palestinians were the allies of these countries, and a large number of them left to watch from afar, in safety, as the proclaimed massacre of the Jews was efficiently carried out by the Arab armies. They then expected to enjoy the chance to seize the spoils after the victory that their side anticipated.
> 
> The defeat of their armies and their political failure in opposing the partition of Mandatory Palestine are thus rewritten, with the Nakba, as a shocking, congenital injustice of which they are the victims. This injustice is affixed to the very existence of Israel, which, in order to exist, purportedly dispossessed an innocent people of their land so that it could take their place. The Palestinian aggressors became the victims. The extermination of others became self-pity and compassion.
> 
> This simplistic image, in purest ideological terms, has become the decisive framework for anti-Zionism, through which some justify the notion of “Israel’s original sin,” a quasi-theological term. This prevailing justification, objectively and morally, has contributed to turning “anti-Zionism” into a new form of anti-Semitism. The depiction of the assumed nature of the Jewish state is similar to that of Jew Süss, the film that Nazi propaganda produced to enhance the hatred of Jews and provide moral and emotional justification for the Nazis’ treatment of them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Deconstructing the Three Stages of the Nakba Myth
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of history by an Israeli organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a good example of denying a people's history.  Deconstruct it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionist's *stated goal* was to transfer the Palestinians out and create an exclusive Jewish state. The Palestinians knew this. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled *before* any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Yet Israel still denies that it was the aggressor.
Click to expand...


Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it’s that, overwhelmingly, the good Pal’istanians, wherever they are, are cowed by their pious (what many mistakenly call “extremist”), brethren both theologically and physically. They will not rise against those among them who, in the simplest reading of Islamist scriptures, are the ones practicing authentic Islam. They wouldn't do so even if the balance of weaponry and willingness to fight were the reverse of what it is today.
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> The Dirty Kuffar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.


This is a one sided issue.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
Click to expand...


How can it be?

There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.

And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
Click to expand...

Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.



But this is where I think it is important to be a little more discerning.  There is a difference between claiming vile things about the entirety of another group and recognizing the culture of a group or of a nation, and sometimes, the sources of that culture.  

For example, there are significant cultural differences between Americans and Canadians.  Acknowledging those differences -- say the stark difference in ideology around gun availability or the ideology behind health care, or the ideology leading to laws about re-implanting ectopic pregnancies -- is not demonizing and it is not claiming vile things about an entire group (even if I DO think that the gun culture and the health care culture and anti-abortion culture of Americans is vile).  It's not saying Americans are vile.  Or ALL Americans are vile.  It's simply acknowledging the existence of these deeply held and strongly motivated cultural belief systems.  

Acknowledging (and calling out) Arab Palestinian culture around something like martyrdom is the same.  It's establishing an aspect of culture which informs and drives the behavior of Arab Palestinians.  Does that mean all Arab Palestinians are suicide bombers?  Of course not.  Just as not all Americans are rampage shooters.  But it does mean that these things are largely taught, encouraged and supported within the culture.

And, as part of discussions, I think it's useful to point out these cultural ideologies and their sources.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> Just wondered if you ever posted anything other than demonizing Palestinians.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
Click to expand...


It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
Click to expand...


More like when someone creeps into a family home in the middle of the night and slits the throats of every member, including children and right down to a newborn baby.  Or when someone firebombs a houseful of sleeping people burning alive an entire family including a toddler.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
Click to expand...


Your statements are both inaccurate and childish.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don’t seem to understand what “demonizing” actually means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I get frustrated by it at times.  My issue with Holly is not just her constant negative portrayal of Palestinians but that she makes it about Islam in entirety implying Muslims are a pedo religion etc.  When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.


> I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  So disagree with her.  *What you don't have the right to do, in my humble opinion, is try to silence her* *or shame her into posting a more "balanced" point of view. * Its an odd reversal on the "Jews are uniquely and irredeemably evil" trope -- the idea that Jews have to prove that they are actually "good" by posting "good" things.
Click to expand...


Ok.  That is a valid point, but why don't you apply that when I am accused of always demonizing Israel?  It does get rather old seems to be one sided imo.[/QUOTE]


My commentary seems to cause you real angst. However, I would point out that my commentary is in specific reference to the words and actions of Hamas, Fatah, PIJ, etc.

These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.

So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.

This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your statements are both inaccurate and childish.
Click to expand...

When was the last time the Palestinians killed 2400 Israelis?

Besides never.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get frustrated by it at times.  My issue with Holly is not just her constant negative portrayal of Palestinians but that she makes it about Islam in entirety implying Muslims are a pedo religion etc.  When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course.  So disagree with her.  *What you don't have the right to do, in my humble opinion, is try to silence her* *or shame her into posting a more "balanced" point of view. * Its an odd reversal on the "Jews are uniquely and irredeemably evil" trope -- the idea that Jews have to prove that they are actually "good" by posting "good" things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  That is a valid point, but why don't you apply that when I am accused of always demonizing Israel?  It does get rather old seems to be one sided imo.
Click to expand...





> My commentary seems to cause you real angst. However, I would point out that my commentary is in specific reference to the words and actions of Hamas, Fatah, PIJ, etc.
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.


Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get frustrated by it at times.  My issue with Holly is not just her constant negative portrayal of Palestinians but that she makes it about Islam in entirety implying Muslims are a pedo religion etc.  When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course.  So disagree with her.  *What you don't have the right to do, in my humble opinion, is try to silence her* *or shame her into posting a more "balanced" point of view. * Its an odd reversal on the "Jews are uniquely and irredeemably evil" trope -- the idea that Jews have to prove that they are actually "good" by posting "good" things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  That is a valid point, but why don't you apply that when I am accused of always demonizing Israel?  It does get rather old seems to be one sided imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My commentary seems to cause you real angst. However, I would point out that my commentary is in specific reference to the words and actions of Hamas, Fatah, PIJ, etc.
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
Click to expand...


Pointless.


----------



## Hollie

“Peaceful Protests”


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your statements are both inaccurate and childish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinians killed 2400 Israelis?
> 
> Besides never.
Click to expand...



Since 2015:  

210 stabbings
161 stabbing attempts
239 shooting attacks
77 vehicular attacks
541 IEDs
9735 rock throwing attacks
2942 arson attacks (petrol bombs, grenades, arson kites)
2500 rockets

Its not for lack of trying to kill Israelis.  Its just that Israelis are really quite good at protecting themselves.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.



A "few bad apples"?!  

80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.

That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your statements are both inaccurate and childish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinians killed 2400 Israelis?
> 
> Besides never.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Since 2015:
> 
> 210 stabbings
> 161 stabbing attempts
> 239 shooting attacks
> 77 vehicular attacks
> 541 IEDs
> 9735 rock throwing attacks
> 2942 arson attacks (petrol bombs, grenades, arson kites)
> 2500 rockets
> 
> Its not for lack of trying to kill Israelis.  Its just that Israelis are really quite good at protecting themselves.
Click to expand...

Where are the rest of the attacks? Why are you one sided?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> kill innocent Israelis.


Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be?
> 
> There are multiple sides involved.  And none of them have been angels.   It's far from one sided.
> 
> And it is made worse when ever some one tries to justify the targeting and killing of civilians...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More like when someone creeps into a family home in the middle of the night and slits the throats of every member, including children and right down to a newborn baby.  Or when someone firebombs a houseful of sleeping people burning alive an entire family including a toddler.
Click to expand...

We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.


----------



## admonit

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
Click to expand...

If a group adopts a vile ideology, then it can be legitimately called a vile group.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
Click to expand...


*Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent? *

Good point, there are no innocent muslims.


----------



## Hollie

More Arab-Moslem failures. 

This must be a disappointment to the Iranian Mullocrats. 



Gaza Riot Fizzles Despite Hamas Anniversary | Hamodia.com

Despite concerns that large numbers would participate, barely 2,000 Arabs showed up for a demonstration on the Gaza border fence Friday. Arabs rioted and threw rocks and firebombs at IDF soldiers, who responded with anti-riot measures. Several hundred of the rioters tried to storm the border fence, throwing firebombs at an IDF jeep that was patrolling the fence. The rioters were driven back, and there was no damage to the jeep. No Israelis were injured in the riots. Gaza sources said five rioters were injured.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
Click to expand...


See?  This isn’t “bad apple”. This is the culture.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.



			
				International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
			
		

> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview


When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.

•  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
•  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •

• Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
“I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.

"MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"



P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?


*(COMMENT)*

Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_. 

"Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."

_*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​


P F Tinmore said:


> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?


*(COMMENT)*

Again, this is a matter of consequence...

The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.

At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"



P F Tinmore said:


> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.


*(COMMENT)*

What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.


 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## José

THUS, in order to achieve peace, *the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians* --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.






After 50 years helping Israel make the war costly to Palestinians, the war finally became very costly to America as well.


----------



## toomuchtime_

José said:


> THUS, in order to achieve peace, *the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians* --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 50 years helping Israel make the war costly to Palestinians, the war finally became very costly to America as well.


Don't be silly.  There is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so there cannot be a peace process and there cannot be a Palestinians state.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by* toomuchtime*
> Don't be silly. There is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so there cannot be a peace process and there cannot be a Palestinians state.



Nolo contendere... no contest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.


The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"


You clearly missed the point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.


Not true. The Palestinians have wanted to end the conflict with international law and UN resolutions forever. Israel is the refusenick here.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Christian Greek Orthodox community in Bethlehem has been in a tumult in recent days following the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) intention to expropriate the lands of the Church of Nativity which belong to the Church.

A few days ago, 11 institutions associated with the Greek-Orthodox Church published a statement protesting the ongoing attempt by the PA to take control of the plaza in front of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.
-----

A Bethlehem official told TPS that since the PA arrived in the city in 1994, the number of Christians in the city has significantly diminished and currently accounts for less than 22 percent of the city’s residents.

He further said that Christmas ceremonies are gradually turning from a religious Christian event to a national event sponsored by the PA, even though in recent years it has acted to deprive Christians of their properties.

(full article online)

WATCH: PA Taking Over Greek Orthodox Church Land in Bethlehem


----------



## Sixties Fan

In other words, the entire purpose of the conference was to push the fiction that Palestinians are Canaanites, because even the Torah admits that the land was Canaanite before the Israelites conquered it. Identifying as Canaanite allows Palestinians to claim that not only were they there before the Jews, but that the Jews had expelled them thousands of years ago.

Even more absurdly, Shtayyeh claimed that the modern Palestinians still worshiped Baal as their alleged ancestors did: "Baal was the most important god among the Canaanites, and we to this day call on his name when we pray for water for the land which is watered from rain water."

Worshipers of Baal were known for other things he might not wish to be associated with.




Engraving of Baal Pe'or, defecating

UPDATE: Shtayyeh ("Winter") is a relatively rare name for Palestinians. I see a Shtayeh family centered in northern Egypt and a Syrian Bedouin tribe with that name in the 19th century.

(full article online)

Palestinians hold a conference where they claim to be Canaanites (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.
Click to expand...


You missed the email with that Hamas charter attachment, right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the past, Israel banned any campaigning in Jerusalem altogether. For previous elections, Israel allowed ballot boxes to be placed in post offices in some Arab areas of Jerusalem, where they were transported to the PA-administered territories afterwards and counted. This way Israel considered them to be absentee ballots and Palestinians can claim that Jerusalem Arabs were allowed to vote. But this time the push seems to be to allow full campaigning and polling places, something the current Israeli government would not allow - but the PA loves to use the international community, especially Europeans, to pressure Israel on Jerusalem in any way possible.

(full article online)

Palestinians continue to use "elections" as a means to grab control of Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The Palestinians have wanted to end the conflict with international law and UN resolutions forever. Israel is the refusenick here.
Click to expand...

So, what's all this fuss with islamic terroristss massing at the israeli border?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Sixties Fan said:


> In the past, Israel banned any campaigning in Jerusalem altogether. For previous elections, Israel allowed ballot boxes to be placed in post offices in some Arab areas of Jerusalem, where they were transported to the PA-administered territories afterwards and counted. This way Israel considered them to be absentee ballots and Palestinians can claim that Jerusalem Arabs were allowed to vote. But this time the push seems to be to allow full campaigning and polling places, something the current Israeli government would not allow - but the PA loves to use the international community, especially Europeans, to pressure Israel on Jerusalem in any way possible.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians continue to use "elections" as a means to grab control of Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Again we hear about the myth of Palestinian elections.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do.  Very much.  I just don't apply a one sided definition of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
Click to expand...


There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get frustrated by it at times.  My issue with Holly is not just her constant negative portrayal of Palestinians but that she makes it about Islam in entirety implying Muslims are a pedo religion etc.  When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my right to disagree with her just as YOU have a right to disagree with Tinmore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course.  So disagree with her.  *What you don't have the right to do, in my humble opinion, is try to silence her* *or shame her into posting a more "balanced" point of view. * Its an odd reversal on the "Jews are uniquely and irredeemably evil" trope -- the idea that Jews have to prove that they are actually "good" by posting "good" things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  That is a valid point, but why don't you apply that when I am accused of always demonizing Israel?  It does get rather old seems to be one sided imo.
Click to expand...



My commentary seems to cause you real angst. However, I would point out that my commentary is in specific reference to the words and actions of Hamas, Fatah, PIJ, etc.[/quote]

It causes no angst.  Just annoyance.  No different than Tinmores predictable commentary.  It's pretty much the same.



> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.



There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.

Disclaimer - no, I'm not saying it's all wrongly taken, but some is, and more - the confusion surrounding the issue of land ownership between two very different cultures (one, essentially western the other agricultural Middle East) leads to the perception of rampant theft.

You label all those people massing angrily at the border generically as "Islamic Terrorists" when the situation is much more complex.



> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.



I have no disagreement with you on Hamas, the use of child soldiers, etc.   But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.  Those Palestinians that can, immigrate because life caught between constant violence, embargo and corrupt leadership is untenable.  Those that can't are caught.  It's not like there have been any elections.



> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.



I get frustrated with the remarks you make above.  Islamic Jihad is not just violence - there are a lot of meanings to what Jihad is (a little research will tell you that).  In addition - exploiting children - is by FAR not unique to Muslims.  Child soldiers exist around the world and represent a huge human rights violation. I'm guessing you don't follow other conflicts outside of IP, such as the Congo: a conflict that has been going on almost as long as I/P, responsible for 5.4 million deaths, horrendous rapes of women and children, and massive numbers of child soldiers and displaced people.  *In fact you entire paragraph there is exactly what I mean by demonizing.  You are demonizing an entire world religion.*  Not Hamas.  Religious psychopaths exist in all religions and in non-religious ideologies.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
Click to expand...


There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:

Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?

How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?

I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.

I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.


----------



## Coyote

admonit said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a group adopts a vile ideology, then it can be legitimately called a vile group.
Click to expand...


See what I mean Shusha ?


----------



## Coyote

Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR

*2 September 2019*
_
_
*A few points:*
_
Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*

In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition. 

In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force. 

In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_

_Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%

O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You missed the email with that Hamas charter attachment, right?
Click to expand...

There was no Hamas in 1948. Why do you cater in irrelevance?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. The Palestinians have wanted to end the conflict with international law and UN resolutions forever. Israel is the refusenick here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what's all this fuss with islamic terroristss massing at the israeli border?
Click to expand...

Civil society is pushing for the enforcement of the law which is not being done.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think you do.
> 
> See, when Tinmore posts a photo with no source, no caption, no news article, no link, and often no comment, or if with a comment, a soundbyte painting Jews/Israelis (but he means Jews) as evil -- that's demonizing.
> 
> When Hollie (or Sixties) posts a news article with factual information about actual events, and then comments on the religious or cultural ideology, funding, government, international commentary, or terrorist groups which support and even drive those events -- that is not demonizing.
> 
> The one is simply assumes and illuminates the position that Jews are obviously evil.  The other attempts to understand and demonstrate the causes of the events posted.  You may disagree with Hollie's points that, say, UNWRA and financial aide to the Palestinians motivates them to ensure the continuation of "welfare dollars" or that there is a fundamental ideology within Islam which feeds certain aspects of the conflict, but if so make your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
Click to expand...

The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.

The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.

There were no similarities.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​


There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You missed the email with that Hamas charter attachment, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no Hamas in 1948. Why do you cater in irrelevance?
Click to expand...


The problem with you is that you live in the past.  It's not 1948 anymore.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
Click to expand...


There was no "Palestine" at that point.  It was just the name of a geographic area.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​
> 
> 
> 
> There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.
Click to expand...


Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.


----------



## toomuchtime_

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The entirety of the rhetoric on the events since the unilateral Arab League intervention has been marked by the defenders of the Israelis and those of the Arab Palestinians _(no matter which direction you observe the discussion)_ unfairly present perspectives of only one side of the "Question of Palestine."  This very much includes biased interpretations _and _not giving a balanced picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Among the rules that the parties to an armed conflict must respect when conducting hostilities, there is the prohibition of direct attacks against civilians and of indiscriminate attacks; the obligation to respect the principle of proportionality in attacks; and the obligation to take all feasible precautions so as to avoid as far as possible civilian casualties."*
> SOURCE:  Internal conflicts or other situations of violence – what is the difference for victims?
> 
> 10-12-2012 Interview
> 
> 
> 
> When these discussions arise, they are not often well received, especially amount the pro-Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Fatah: Murdering children is *"legitimate human struggle"* - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
> By Itamar Marcus  |  Jul 18, 2019  •
> •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> • Home / Politics / Joint List MK Not Saying Killing Jews Legitimate, But Killing Jews Legitimate •
> “I’m not saying it’s OK for Palestinians to resort to potentially deadly attacks against Israel under the rubric of ‘resistance to occupation,’ *but it’s OK for Palestinians to target Israelis for deadly attacks as a form of legitimate resistance to occupation,”* she stated this morning.
> 
> "MK Haneen Zoabi, who has in the past courted controversy for staunch anti-Israel rhetoric, sought to assuage concerns today that she had justified Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians such as the mortar attacks on Tuesday that included dozens of shells and injured 4 people,"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like when Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands but whines about one or two by the Palestinians.?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not people understand it _(and are not just emotionally influenced by it)_, this comparison is an evaluation of the effectiveness of the combatants in the conflict _(with the underlying issue on the question of what it means to intentionally target the civilian population)_.
> 
> "Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."
> _*Urban Dictionary: Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.*   A "hip" expression of the 1960's-70's that advises *you not to do* something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a matter of consequence...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (through the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people) agreed to the principle that Area C full Israeli civil and security control.
> 
> At what point is the exercise of "full Israeli civil and security control" considered "illegal?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see this tit for tat until Israel ends its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?"  This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.  This is consistent with the Arab Palestinians dragging their feet on any matter of peace.  The Arab Palestinians are not yet politically interested in achieving peace through the Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  THUS, in order to achieve peace, the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> View attachment 294881
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You missed the email with that Hamas charter attachment, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no Hamas in 1948. Why do you cater in irrelevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem with you is that you live in the past.  It's not 1948 anymore.
Click to expand...

Not only that, Tinmore's 1948 never happened, just as Tinmore's present bears no relation to reality.


----------



## toomuchtime_

ForeverYoung436 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​
> 
> 
> 
> There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.
Click to expand...

Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
Click to expand...

The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​
> 
> 
> 
> There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.
Click to expand...

What is the problem that must be resolved?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
Click to expand...

lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
Click to expand...

So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​
> 
> 
> 
> There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the problem that must be resolved?
Click to expand...

That's a surprisingly good question coming from you.  According to the Palestinians, the EU, the UN, the Democratic Party, the problem is land, the land the so called Palestinians want to control, but according to Israelis, sensible Americans and others around the world, the problem is peace and security.  Since there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, there is no possibility that there can be a Palestinian state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​
> 
> 
> 
> There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the problem that must be resolved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a surprisingly good question coming from you.  According to the Palestinians, the EU, the UN, the Democratic Party, the problem is land, the land the so called Palestinians want to control, but according to Israelis, sensible Americans and others around the world, the problem is peace and security.  Since there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, there is no possibility that there can be a Palestinian state.
Click to expand...

So you think the people being attacked should offer security?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?
Click to expand...

In the case of the so called Palestinians, it is the product of a socially and politically backward society that was and largely is rabidly xenophobic.


----------



## José

*The problem with you is that you live in the past. It's not 1948 anymore.*​




The only one living in the past is you...

You're living in 1750 when there was absolutely no arab opposition to Israel.

In 2019, just like in 1948, the palestinian society almost unanimously reject the state of Israel despite the polls horrendously misinterpreted by Coyote.

Today, just like 72 years ago, they obviously don't have the power to do anything about Israel's existence except the "power" to refuse to build a normal, functional palestinian state, the "power" to continue to reject Israel's legitimacy.

As the germans say:

*Die gedanken sind frei.*

*Thoughts are free.*


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is always increased support for attacks against Israelis which is why a two state solution is no feasible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the problem that must be resolved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a surprisingly good question coming from you.  According to the Palestinians, the EU, the UN, the Democratic Party, the problem is land, the land the so called Palestinians want to control, but according to Israelis, sensible Americans and others around the world, the problem is peace and security.  Since there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, there is no possibility that there can be a Palestinian state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you think the people being attacked should offer security?
Click to expand...

Of course the Palestinians are not being attacked.  They are not victims, they are failed aggressors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the case of the so called Palestinians, it is the product of a socially and politically backward society that was and largely is rabidly xenophobic.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the case of the so called Palestinians, it is the product of a socially and politically backward society that was and largely is rabidly xenophobic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...

It's not a deflection, but a complete answer to why the Palestinians are consumed with hate for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there has to be either 2 fully independent states, or one state, Israel, with everyone being equal citizens.  The status quo is untenable for the long haul.
> 
> 
> 
> Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the problem that must be resolved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a surprisingly good question coming from you.  According to the Palestinians, the EU, the UN, the Democratic Party, the problem is land, the land the so called Palestinians want to control, but according to Israelis, sensible Americans and others around the world, the problem is peace and security.  Since there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, there is no possibility that there can be a Palestinian state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you think the people being attacked should offer security?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course the Palestinians are not being attacked.  They are not victims, they are failed aggressors.
Click to expand...

So, do you think the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since neither a two state or one state "solution" is viable, the status quo, more or less, is the only viable solution.  While you may not think the status quo is desirable for the long haul, there is no reason to think it is not tenable.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the problem that must be resolved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a surprisingly good question coming from you.  According to the Palestinians, the EU, the UN, the Democratic Party, the problem is land, the land the so called Palestinians want to control, but according to Israelis, sensible Americans and others around the world, the problem is peace and security.  Since there is no political entity among the Palestinians that can credibly offer peace to Israel, there is no possibility that there can be a Palestinian state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you think the people being attacked should offer security?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course the Palestinians are not being attacked.  They are not victims, they are failed aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, do you think the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what they are doing now in Europe and in the US.  That's why so many European countries have had to pass laws against anti semitism and why President Trump issued an executive order against anti semitism.  Everywhere the Palestinians go they carry their xenophobic hate with them.


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See?  This isn’t “bad apple”. This is the culture.
Click to expand...


Why do you mark this "funny", Tinmore?

Is it because you recognize you are a "bad apple" or because you recognize you have adopted the culture?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

José said:


> THUS, in order to achieve peace, *the war must become so costly to the Arab Palestinians* --- before they will be motivated to actually pursue the obligation to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 50 years helping Israel make the war costly to Palestinians, the war finally became very costly to America as well.



Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims. 

Moron.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
Click to expand...


You don't get it, do you Coyote ?  He doesn't need to justify killing a child.  He doesn't need a reason.  

Why? Because its part of their culture to kill children (others and their own).  Killing others is permissible simply because they are others.  That alone is enough to define them as enemy.  And your enemies are meant to be killed. 

 And killing their own leads to glory in heaven.  That's their ideology.  And it is vile.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
Click to expand...



See what I mean Coyote ?

The Arabs are permissible as immigrants because they are not "other".  They are the same culture.  They speak the same language, have the same values, practice the same religion.  

Others are enemies.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree - when I read Hollie's *personal commentary* regarding the things she posts about the Palestinians and Muslims - it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.   It is constantly implying a unique evil to Islam and Islam alone.  *THAT is demonizing.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's no different than the one sided attacks that Tinmore makes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
Click to expand...


Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.  

If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
Click to expand...


That sidesteps the question - and you fail to directly answer it every time it is act.

What can a child have done that possibly justifies targeting it and murdering it?  It's a pretty straight forward question, it isn't about "who is to blame" it's about the children who are targeted and killed.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a group adopts a vile ideology, then it can be legitimately called a vile group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See what I mean Shusha ?
Click to expand...


I agree with admonit .

If a group adopts a vile ideology, then it can legitimately be called a vile group.  Its the ideology that is the problem.  Not the people.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean Coyote ?
> 
> The Arabs are permissible as immigrants because they are not "other".  They are the same culture.  They speak the same language, have the same values, practice the same religion.
> 
> Others are enemies.
Click to expand...


Agree...despite the fact Jews have been in that area forever - different standards are being applied.

But, take a good look at what Hollie recently posted about Muslims in response to me.   It's not Palestinians and Hamas.  It's ALL Muslims, it's their ideology as she perceives it.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.  I've been chewed out for only saying bad things about Israel (that didn't bother you?).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you've been called out for internal inconsistency in claiming to be balanced in your approach, when you actually tend to post about Israel in a negative light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe you are wrong in this.  I've been called out for "always" demonizing Israel (not by you I might add).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like Tinmore - it tends to be very one sided (but that only bothers you when Tinmore does it?).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I have no problem with anyone being one-sided.*  Kinda the nature of a discussion board on a contentious topic such as this one.  The problem I have with Tinmore is not his one-sidedness.  Its his vile views about the Jewish people -- you know, like claiming that it is morally and legally permissible to target and murder Jewish children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you imply or claim vile things about an entire group as a group, it's well - vile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a group adopts a vile ideology, then it can be legitimately called a vile group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See what I mean Shusha ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with admonit .
> 
> If a group adopts a vile ideology, then it can legitimately be called a vile group.  Its the ideology that is the problem.  Not the people.
Click to expand...


So, Adomit feels Muslims have a vile ideology (unless he is only referring to terrorist extremists and that wasn't the impression I got) - they there fore, in entirety, are a vile group?  There is no difference between that and Tinmore who seems to feel all Jews a vile.  None.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​




Interesting what you left out in your post, from the link.  

That's the same poll which reveals that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up innocent Israeli children.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> *The problem with you is that you live in the past. It's not 1948 anymore.*​
> 
> 
> 
> The only one living in the past is you...
> 
> You're living in 1750 when there was absolutely no arab opposition to Israel.
> 
> In 2019, just like in 1948, the palestinian society almost unanimously reject the state of Israel despite the polls horrendously misinterpreted by Coyote.
> 
> Today, just like 72 years ago, they obviously don't have the power to do anything about Israel's existence except the "power" to refuse to build a normal, functional palestinian state, the "power" to continue to reject Israel's legitimacy.
> 
> As the germans say:
> 
> *Die gedanken sind frei.*
> 
> *Thoughts are free.*



1)  I don't understand your post at all.

2)  I never wrote these words.

3)  Why  do you always put up my avatar?

P.S.  I mean that I never wrote the words which are below my avatar.  Why don't you say in plain English what you're getting at?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
Click to expand...


Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".  

"If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."

You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".  

Tinmore couldn't have said it better.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it, do you Coyote ?  He doesn't need to justify killing a child.  He doesn't need a reason.
> 
> Why? Because its part of their culture to kill children (others and their own).  Killing others is permissible simply because they are others.  That alone is enough to define them as enemy.  And your enemies are meant to be killed.
> 
> And killing their own leads to glory in heaven.  That's their ideology.  And it is vile.
Click to expand...



Who is "They"?  And do they really believe that?  That's what the pro-Israel media keeps telling us - but what do the Palestinians by and large think that they should be lumped en masse into a "vile ideology"?  If you look at polls - there are some disturbing trends, and there are some interesting trends and there seem to be some conflicting views:

The Itmamar massacre was horrific - and, a disturbingly large number (but my no means a majority felt it was justified: 32%
Poll: One-third of Palestinians support Itamar massacre

That was 2011.

2019 - after another murder Palestinian Poll: 61 Percent Applaud the Murder of Israeli Teen

_According to a survey released by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR), 61% of Palestinian Arabs approved of that terrorist bombing on an innocent Israeli family ‘guilty’ of touring the Biblical Land of Israel. The breakdown included 49% of Palestinians who live in Judea and Samaria and 80% of Gazans who supported Rina’s murder.

Among participants in the poll, 37% were said to have favored terrorism, in general, 32% preferred a peace deal, and 10% said the best way forward would be by “waging non-violent resistance.”_​
Poll: Majority of Young Palestinians Don’t Believe in ‘Permanent Peace’

_A poll from the Palestine Center for Public Opinion (PCPO) found that a majority of Palestinians between the ages of 18 and 30 living in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip reject “permanent peace” with Israel.
According to The Washington Institute think-tank, the PCPO reached out to 1,000 Palestinians living in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The results of the June and July polls, released on Sept. 6, note that 34 percent of Palestinians between the ages of 18 and 30 in the West Bank believed that a two-state solution should end the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Thirty-eight percent of those in Gaza also believed in a two-state solution. Among Palestinians older than 30, 25 percent in the West Bank said the conflict should end with a two-state solution as did 46 percent in Gaza.

The poll also listed a series of political priorities for the Palestinians; 50 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza said they “prioritize internal political reform” such as “making our government more effective and less corrupt” instead of engaging in acts of “’resistance’ against Israel.” That number was “noticeably lower” among Palestinians older than 30, as 35 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank, as well as 38 percent Gaza, had such priorities, per the Washington Institute. 

*Additionally, 49 percent of 18 to 30-year-old Palestinians in the West Bank said they agreed with the statement that the Palestinian Authority should cease payments to terrorists that murder Israelis*, which the Washington Institute described as a “shockingly high” number._​

In addition - they have suffered brutality from the Israeli's, and no - I am not saying it is totally unwarranted but it shapes perceptions.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.
Click to expand...


This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.

"Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
Click to expand...


Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.
> 
> "Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."
Click to expand...


There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.

And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.

Which versions are accurate Shusha?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what polls of Palestinians have to say, I find this site interesting:  Public Opinion Poll No (73) | PCPSR
> 
> *2 September 2019*
> _
> _
> *A few points:*
> _
> Findings of the third quarter of 2019 show an overwhelming majority, reaching about three quarters, dissatisfied with the performance of the PA and the political factions in their response to the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Wadi al Hommos, near Jerusalem. The majority views the response of president Abbas to the demolition—by declaring that the PA is stopping its implementation of the agreements with Israel— as inappropriate. Indeed, *an overwhelming majority, exceeding three quarters of the public, believes that Abbas’ decision is merely a media stunt aiming at absorbing public anger with the PA leadership over its failure to prevent Israel from carrying out that demolition*. Furthermore, public anger with the PA is probably driven by the belief of more than *80% that the Palestinian leadership will not implement the decision to stop implementing the agreements with Israel.*
> 
> In domestic matters, findings show that the *overwhelming majority of the public views “honor killing” of women as a heinous crime that must be punished severely. *Only 10% think that this type of crimes is understandable and punishment should thereby be reduced. By contrast, findings show that *almost half of the public, much more in the Gaza Strip, believes human beings can be possessed by Jinn *or demons while a slightly smaller percentage believes this to be a superstition.
> 
> In foreign affairs, findings show that t*he largest percentage of the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank, does not view Iran as a friend or an ally of the Palestinians.* Yet, a majority, in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, believes that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, the former would be able to defeat the latter, as Iran is believed to have a stronger military force.
> 
> In light of prime minister Netanyahu’s statement announcing his intentions to annex the Jordan Valley, *findings show a significant increase in the percentage of those who believe that the two-state solution is no longer feasible or practical.* As in the past, feasibility is linked to support for the two-state solution. Findings show a significant decline in support for that solution accompanied by an *increased support for armed attacks against Israelis. *_
> 
> _Positive evaluation of conditions in the Gaza Strip stands at 8% and positive evaluation of conditions in the West Bank stands at 22%. But perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stands at 63% and in the West Bank at 52%. Three months ago, perception of safety and security in the Gaza Strip stood at 67% and in the West Bank at 59%. 31% of the public say they want to emigrate due to political, security, and economic conditions. The percentage rises in the Gaza Strip to 41% and declines in the West Bank to 24%
> 
> O*nly 36% of the West Bankers say that people can criticize the authority in their area without fear and 59% say that they cannot. *Three months ago, 57% of West Bankers said they could not criticize the PA in the West Bank without fear. In the Gaza Strip, 43% say that people in the Gaza Strip can criticize Hamas authority without fear and 53% say they cannot. Perception of corruption in PA institutions stands at 80% while perception of corruption in the institutions controlled by Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands at 65%._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting what you left out in your post, from the link.
> 
> That's the same poll which reveals that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up innocent Israeli children.
Click to expand...


I couldn't put everything into it -what I was trying to indicate was the plurality of opinions on things.  The link was provided and the material extensive.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?
Click to expand...


Sometimes yes...it is.  When groups are separated it becomes much easier to see them as "the other" and attribute or believe bad things about them.

It's a whole lot different when you sit down to supper with the "other" and meet them as people.  That often destroys stereotypes.

One of the unintended consequences of Israel's policy of total separation is that the two groups have far less interaction.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In fact you entire paragraph there is exactly what I mean by demonizing.  You are demonizing an entire world religion.*  Not Hamas.  Religious psychopaths exist in all religions and in non-religious ideologies.
Click to expand...


This paragraph is neither demonizing, nor is it calling out an entire religion.  Its is specifically naming an ideology within that religion which is vile and harmful.  Specifically, naming the ideology of poisonous hatred and the glorification of death.  

There is no "Muslims are bad" or "Islam is bad".  It specifically says the ideology of poisonous hatred (for other) and the glorification of death.  It specifically says the indoctrination and exploitation of children.  It specifically says willfully and regularly.  

THAT is not demonizing.  That is pointing out a vile ideology. 

How that manifests, is in the cultural agreement with and support of acts based on that vile ideology.  Such as 80% of Gazans supporting planting bombs to blow up Jewish children.  

THAT is the culture.


----------



## Coyote

;l;


Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In fact you entire paragraph there is exactly what I mean by demonizing.  You are demonizing an entire world religion.*  Not Hamas.  Religious psychopaths exist in all religions and in non-religious ideologies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This paragraph is neither demonizing, nor is it calling out an entire religion.  Its is specifically naming an ideology within that religion which is vile and harmful.  Specifically, naming the ideology of poisonous hatred and the glorification of death.
> 
> There is no "Muslims are bad" or "Islam is bad".  It specifically says the ideology of poisonous hatred (for other) and the glorification of death.  It specifically says the indoctrination and exploitation of children.  It specifically says willfully and regularly.
> 
> THAT is not demonizing.  That is pointing out a vile ideology.
> 
> How that manifests, is in the cultural agreement with and support of acts based on that vile ideology.  Such as 80% of Gazans supporting planting bombs to blow up Jewish children.
> 
> THAT is the culture.
Click to expand...


Seriously?  *You don't see that?  It is exactly "Muslims are bad" - she is explicit on her views.*


_It comes from Islam,... see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths_

What the hell is she talking about here?  MUSLIMS.  ISLAM.  A fact that completely ignores most Muslims do not practice or support this kind of extremism.

_There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse._

And again - most Muslims do not regularly exploit children to murder civilians.  There is nothing in Islam that calls for that, and the exploitation of children in conflict is by no means unique to muslims.  Good lord - the Congo was one of the worst conflicts for exploiting children, and there are many others using child soldiers around the world.

She does NOT refer to Hamas.  She does not refer to extremists.  She does not refer to a subject.  She does not refer to Palestinians.  *She refers to MUSLIMS and ISLAM.*

How much more explicit does she need to be for you to understand what she is talking about?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> So, Adomit feels Muslims have a vile ideology (unless he is only referring to terrorist extremists and that wasn't the impression I got) - they there fore, in entirety, are a vile group?  There is no difference between that and Tinmore who seems to feel all Jews a vile.  None.



I have no idea how admonit feels about Muslims as a whole.

But I also think its not as easy to distinguish as you think it is.  For example, I find a whole bunch of Xtian ideological and theological ideas to be quite vile.  Does that mean I see Xtians as a "vile group".  Does that mean I'm against Xtians?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Adomit feels Muslims have a vile ideology (unless he is only referring to terrorist extremists and that wasn't the impression I got) - they there fore, in entirety, are a vile group?  There is no difference between that and Tinmore who seems to feel all Jews a vile.  None.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how admonit feels about Muslims as a whole.
> 
> But I also think its not as easy to distinguish as you think it is.  For example, I find a whole bunch of Xtian ideological and theological ideas to be quite vile.  Does that mean I see Xtians as a "vile group".  Does that mean I'm against Xtians?
Click to expand...


I haven't heard you argue vis a vis Christians, but when you argue you hit on specific ideologies and actions, not groups.  I do not see that from Holly or Admit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coyote said:


> ;l;
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In fact you entire paragraph there is exactly what I mean by demonizing.  You are demonizing an entire world religion.*  Not Hamas.  Religious psychopaths exist in all religions and in non-religious ideologies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This paragraph is neither demonizing, nor is it calling out an entire religion.  Its is specifically naming an ideology within that religion which is vile and harmful.  Specifically, naming the ideology of poisonous hatred and the glorification of death.
> 
> There is no "Muslims are bad" or "Islam is bad".  It specifically says the ideology of poisonous hatred (for other) and the glorification of death.  It specifically says the indoctrination and exploitation of children.  It specifically says willfully and regularly.
> 
> THAT is not demonizing.  That is pointing out a vile ideology.
> 
> How that manifests, is in the cultural agreement with and support of acts based on that vile ideology.  Such as 80% of Gazans supporting planting bombs to blow up Jewish children.
> 
> THAT is the culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously?  *You don't see that?  It is exactly "Muslims are bad" - she is explicit on her views.*
> 
> 
> _It comes from Islam,... see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths_
> 
> What the hell is she talking about here?  MUSLIMS.  ISLAM.  A fact that completely ignores most Muslims do not practice or support this kind of extremism.
> 
> _There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse._
> 
> And again - most Muslims do not regularly exploit children to murder civilians.  There is nothing in Islam that calls for that, and the exploitation of children in conflict is by no means unique to muslims.  Good lord - the Congo was one of the worst conflicts for exploiting children, and there are many others using child soldiers around the world.
> 
> She does NOT refer to Hamas.  She does not refer to extremists.  She does not refer to a subject.  She does not refer to Palestinians.  *She refers to MUSLIMS and ISLAM.*
> 
> How much more explicit does she need to be for you to understand what she is talking about?
Click to expand...

The reference is to Muslims and to Islam but it is NOT about ALL Muslims in Islam, anymore that one could say that ALL Christians are bad simply because some have chosen to continue to accuse Jews of the murder of Jesus and other things, and continue to commit pogroms and attempt to commit a total genocide of the Jewish people or convert them all.

So, please post against how it is always about ALL the poor Muslims and not about some of them who follow this vile, murderous ideology of supremacy over the whole world.  Those who believe in that ideology have said it out loud for anyone to hear.

The WHOLE world is Muslim.  They say.

That is a vile ideology from the brains of vile people, who do not care how many of their own, including children, will be killed for the 
"cause, and is the only ideology which in modern times has made it a focus of turning those who are killed for the "cause" into martyrs.
A world where there are no consequences to them for their actions.
Murder is welcome.  Of Jews especially.
The Christians and others are next.

Close your eyes and do not see any of it.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
Click to expand...


Oh please.  

Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.  

If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.  

You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> _It comes from Islam,... see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths_
> 
> What the hell is she talking about here?  MUSLIMS.  ISLAM.  A fact that completely ignores most Muslims do not practice or support this kind of extremism.



The "it" in the paragraph above is the ideology.

She is discussing the ideology which she explicitly defines.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it, do you Coyote ?  He doesn't need to justify killing a child.  He doesn't need a reason.
> 
> Why? Because its part of their culture to kill children (others and their own).  Killing others is permissible simply because they are others.  That alone is enough to define them as enemy.  And your enemies are meant to be killed.
> 
> And killing their own leads to glory in heaven.  That's their ideology.  And it is vile.
Click to expand...

What a crock of Israeli crap.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.
> 
> "Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.
> 
> And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.
> 
> Which versions are accurate Shusha?
Click to expand...


There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)

One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it, do you Coyote ?  He doesn't need to justify killing a child.  He doesn't need a reason.
> 
> Why? Because its part of their culture to kill children (others and their own).  Killing others is permissible simply because they are others.  That alone is enough to define them as enemy.  And your enemies are meant to be killed.
> 
> And killing their own leads to glory in heaven.  That's their ideology.  And it is vile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a crock of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...



You literally answered Coyote 's question about why it is permissible to kill Israeli children with, "Because they are Jews and they are present there."


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> One of the unintended consequences of Israel's policy of total separation is that the two groups have far less interaction.



That is a disgusting lie.  Israel DOES NOT have a policy of total separation between Jews and Arabs or between Jews and Muslims.  Or even Israelis and Palestinians.  Israel does have a policy of securing its citizens from terrorists.


----------



## José

1) I don't understand your post at all. Why don't you say in plain English what you're getting at?

2) I never wrote these words. I mean that I never wrote the words which are below my avatar.

3) Why do you always put up my avatar?






2 - Of course you didn't... those words are my reply to you.

3 - Not your avatar, everybody's avatar. Faster than writing "Originally posted by ForeverYoung436", PF Tinmore, toastman, etc over and over.

1 - I thought my post was crystal clear but anyway... let's try again.

Palestinians are a pathetically weak third world people. They don't have the planes, tanks and gunships Israel has in order to force the jewish state to accept their right of return.

The only thing they can do is reject normalization with Israel and wait for a new, more favorable global political climate to arise in the future.

They have the "power" to think whatever they wish.

Just like a Jew in medieval Europe... he didn't have an army to fight the Inquisition when it persecuted him under the accusation of being a pseudo convert to Cristianity...

All he could do is continue to believe in Judaism because "thoughts are free".

Nobody could take his right to continue to think of himself as a Jew and nobody can take the palestinians' right to believe Israel is their homeland.

Thoughts are the only thing no one, not even the most powerful army in the world, can control.


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ;l;
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> This sort of murderous hatred is a matter of course in Islam's gee-had. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from Islam, and when I see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In fact you entire paragraph there is exactly what I mean by demonizing.  You are demonizing an entire world religion.*  Not Hamas.  Religious psychopaths exist in all religions and in non-religious ideologies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This paragraph is neither demonizing, nor is it calling out an entire religion.  Its is specifically naming an ideology within that religion which is vile and harmful.  Specifically, naming the ideology of poisonous hatred and the glorification of death.
> 
> There is no "Muslims are bad" or "Islam is bad".  It specifically says the ideology of poisonous hatred (for other) and the glorification of death.  It specifically says the indoctrination and exploitation of children.  It specifically says willfully and regularly.
> 
> THAT is not demonizing.  That is pointing out a vile ideology.
> 
> How that manifests, is in the cultural agreement with and support of acts based on that vile ideology.  Such as 80% of Gazans supporting planting bombs to blow up Jewish children.
> 
> THAT is the culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously?  *You don't see that?  It is exactly "Muslims are bad" - she is explicit on her views.*
> 
> 
> _It comes from Islam,... see the dreadful cradle-to-grave program of indoctrination used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths_
> 
> What the hell is she talking about here?  MUSLIMS.  ISLAM.  A fact that completely ignores most Muslims do not practice or support this kind of extremism.
> 
> _There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly exploit children as a means to murder unarmed civilians en masse._
> 
> And again - most Muslims do not regularly exploit children to murder civilians.  There is nothing in Islam that calls for that, and the exploitation of children in conflict is by no means unique to muslims.  Good lord - the Congo was one of the worst conflicts for exploiting children, and there are many others using child soldiers around the world.
> 
> She does NOT refer to Hamas.  She does not refer to extremists.  She does not refer to a subject.  She does not refer to Palestinians.  *She refers to MUSLIMS and ISLAM.*
> 
> How much more explicit does she need to be for you to understand what she is talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The reference is to Muslims and to Islam but it is NOT about ALL Muslims in Islam, anymore that one could say that ALL Christians are bad simply because some have chosen to continue to accuse Jews of the murder of Jesus and other things, and continue to commit pogroms and attempt to commit a total genocide of the Jewish people or convert them all.
> 
> So, please post against how it is always about ALL the poor Muslims and not about some of them who follow this vile, murderous ideology of supremacy over the whole world.  Those who believe in that ideology have said it out loud for anyone to hear.
> 
> The WHOLE world is Muslim.  They say.
> 
> That is a vile ideology from the brains of vile people, who do not care how many of their own, including children, will be killed for the
> "cause, and is the only ideology which in modern times has made it a focus of turning those who are killed for the "cause" into martyrs.
> A world where there are no consequences to them for their actions.
> Murder is welcome.  Of Jews especially.
> The Christians and others are next.
> 
> Close your eyes and do not see any of it.
Click to expand...


Hmmm.

_So, please post against how it is always about ALL the poor Muslims and not about some of them who follow this vile, murderous ideology of supremacy over the whole world. Those who believe in that ideology have said it out loud for anyone to hear._

So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Adomit feels Muslims have a vile ideology (unless he is only referring to terrorist extremists and that wasn't the impression I got) - they there fore, in entirety, are a vile group?  There is no difference between that and Tinmore who seems to feel all Jews a vile.  None.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how admonit feels about Muslims as a whole.
> 
> But I also think its not as easy to distinguish as you think it is.  For example, I find a whole bunch of Xtian ideological and theological ideas to be quite vile.  Does that mean I see Xtians as a "vile group".  Does that mean I'm against Xtians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I haven't heard you argue vis a vis Christians, but when you argue you hit on specific ideologies and actions, not groups.  I do not see that from Holly or Admit.
Click to expand...


Oh I think there are plenty of vile ideas in Islam too.  Glorification of death definitely being one of them.


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> 3 - Not your avatar, everybody's avatar. Faster than writing "Originally posted by ForeverYoung436", PF Tinmore, toastman, etc over and over.



Yeah, the avatar thing is annoying.  Just saying.

Why not just hit the reply button and the post you are responding to automatically appears?  Easier even than pasting the avatar.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the unintended consequences of Israel's policy of total separation is that the two groups have far less interaction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a disgusting lie.  Israel DOES NOT have a policy of total separation between Jews and Arabs or between Jews and Muslims.  Or even Israelis and Palestinians.  Israel does have a policy of securing its citizens from terrorists.
Click to expand...


No...it isn't a lie, you are jumping to *unintended* meanings.  You are right it's not "total separation" but it is none the less a separation that has a consequence of less casual social interaction particularly for those Palestinians who do not live or work in Jewish areas.  It's left a mixed legacy.  I drew my comment from two articles I read,, one was this and the other I can no longer find but dealt with how increased separation of two cultures made it more easy to believe the worst of each other.  Take it or leave it 

Ariel Sharon's Legacy of Separation


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".



Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.

Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.

And you can't see the difference?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Adomit feels Muslims have a vile ideology (unless he is only referring to terrorist extremists and that wasn't the impression I got) - they there fore, in entirety, are a vile group?  There is no difference between that and Tinmore who seems to feel all Jews a vile.  None.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how admonit feels about Muslims as a whole.
> 
> But I also think its not as easy to distinguish as you think it is.  For example, I find a whole bunch of Xtian ideological and theological ideas to be quite vile.  Does that mean I see Xtians as a "vile group".  Does that mean I'm against Xtians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I haven't heard you argue vis a vis Christians, but when you argue you hit on specific ideologies and actions, not groups.  I do not see that from Holly or Admit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I think there are plenty of vile ideas in Islam too.  Glorification of death definitely being one of them.
Click to expand...


Not sure that is totally Islamic - they all have a martyr mentality.  The worst issue I have with Islam is that too many in Muslim majority countries still believe in an outdated  view of the world.  The other Abrahamic faiths have adjusted their views on women etc away from a literal reading of the scriptures.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Yeah, the avatar thing is annoying. Just saying.
> 
> Why not just hit the reply button and the post you are responding to automatically appears? Easier even than pasting the avatar.



The problem with the button is that it hides even relatively small messages.

Take a look at your previous post (15158)... We can't even see what Coyote said.

But OK.... I will return to the good, old "Originally..."

At least in "normal" messages... (not OPs).
​


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
Click to expand...



It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.

Try this:
Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.

Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.

She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.

She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> No...it isn't a lie, you are jumping to *unintended* meanings.  You are right it's not "total separation" but it is none the less a separation that has a consequence of less casual social interaction particularly for those Palestinians who do not live or work in Jewish areas.  It's left a mixed legacy.  I drew my comment from two articles I read,, one was this and the other I can no longer find but dealt with how increased separation of two cultures made it more easy to believe the worst of each other.  Take it or leave it
> 
> Ariel Sharon's Legacy of Separation



Wait, so not total separation and the Palestinians who have less casual social interaction are the ones who don't LIVE or WORK in Jewish areas.  

Thank you for proving my point.  There is no separation in Israel.  (Though, there are no Jews to interact with in "Palestine".)  

If you don't want me to jump to your "unintended meanings", you need to be more careful about what you write in your rush to blame Israel.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.
> 
> "Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.
> 
> And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.
> 
> Which versions are accurate Shusha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)
> 
> One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.
Click to expand...


I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.

Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).

Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
Genocide.

There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Yeah, the avatar thing is annoying. Just saying.
> 
> Why not just hit the reply button and the post you are responding to automatically appears? Easier even than pasting the avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with the button is that it hides even relatively small messages.
> 
> Take a look at your previous post (15158)... We can't even see what Coyote said.
> 
> But OK.... I will return to the good, old "Originally..."
> 
> At least in "normal" messages... (not OPs).
> ​
Click to expand...


If you just keep hitting reply, it will bring up everything and re-post it.

At the bottom of the reply box it says, "click to expand".  That will bring up all the previous replies so you can see and follow everything.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No...it isn't a lie, you are jumping to *unintended* meanings.  You are right it's not "total separation" but it is none the less a separation that has a consequence of less casual social interaction particularly for those Palestinians who do not live or work in Jewish areas.  It's left a mixed legacy.  I drew my comment from two articles I read,, one was this and the other I can no longer find but dealt with how increased separation of two cultures made it more easy to believe the worst of each other.  Take it or leave it
> 
> Ariel Sharon's Legacy of Separation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, so not total separation and the Palestinians who have less casual social interaction are the ones who don't LIVE or WORK in Jewish areas.
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.  There is no separation in Israel.  (Though, there are no Jews to interact with in "Palestine".)
> 
> If you don't want me to jump to your "unintended meanings", you need to be more careful about what you write in your rush to blame Israel.
Click to expand...


Point taken, but you really really missed my point.  It was not a rush to blame Israel of anything - it was pointing out an unintended consequence of an action taken for security reasons (right or wrong).  That wasn't the issue - it was the decrease in social interactions.  I think you are way to quick to accuse me of a rush on "blaming Israel" - this becomes an exercise in walking on eggshells.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
Click to expand...



Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!

....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...


That is talking about MUSLIMS.

Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dynamics at play in the actions of Islamic terrorists in a disgusting drama where children are used as war material are as follows: The terrorist thugs in the PA / Hamas know that Israelis cherish life, especially that of a child. They know that for Israelis, the first instinct is to trust kids, therefore increasing the chances of a kid being able to smuggle bombs and weapons (sometimes with instructions to use them) through Israeli checkpoints. They exploit the warped innocence of these young people, who are raised to hold up death and murder as lofty ideals. And for these vile people, the prospects of possibly murdering Israelis outweighs putting a kid's life in danger by placing him or her in close proximity to high explosives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.
> 
> "Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.
> 
> And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.
> 
> Which versions are accurate Shusha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)
> 
> One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
Click to expand...



I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug. 

I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.

Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs. It implies that the cause of Arab's ideology is the bad things Israel is doing.  And if Israel just stopped doing the bad things, Arabs would be peaceful.  

If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But are all Palestinian children raised to hold death and murder as lofty ideals?  Most?  When I've read interviews with kids, a good many aspire to be doctors, lawyers, to be able to help their people.  When there are pictures of "Jihadi camps" it seems to be the same old pictures recycled.  I don't doubt they exist but are they that prevalent?  Again - no one examines that and no one examines the how people really feel about issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.
> 
> "Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.
> 
> And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.
> 
> Which versions are accurate Shusha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)
> 
> One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug.
> 
> I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.
> 
> Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs.
> 
> If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.
Click to expand...


I didn't post a list - just two examples, textbooks and Nakba. Two things.  

And here you, again, confuse.  You chastised me for expecting others to post both sides...and then chastise me for not posting both sides.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.



This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is where I am frustrated.  I am frustrated (and frankly, angry) when people insist to Jews that Jews are really just imagining things when they see a vile ideology, especially a vile ideology directed at Jews.
> 
> "Oh its just a few bad apples.  Its not like children are REALLY indoctrinated and exploited."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.
> 
> And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.
> 
> Which versions are accurate Shusha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)
> 
> One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug.
> 
> I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.
> 
> Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs.
> 
> If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't post a list - just two examples, textbooks and Nakba. Two things.
> 
> And here you, again, confuse.  You chastised me for expecting others to post both sides...and then chastise me for not posting both sides.
Click to expand...


I was thinking of the other post and the other list.  My bad.

I'm chastising you for claiming to be able to see and represent both sides while only posting one side.  Its the internal inconsistency that I am calling out.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two sides to every issue and you are attempting to claim otherwise - that if one points out that there is another side one is automatically blaming the jews.
> 
> And frankly - some of the pro-Israeli media is as dishonest as the Pro-Palestinian media.  A perfect example are the claims that about Palestinian textbooks when (shock) Israeli textbooks are also pretty biased - or, look at how Nakhba is handled.
> 
> Which versions are accurate Shusha?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)
> 
> One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug.
> 
> I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.
> 
> Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs.
> 
> If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't post a list - just two examples, textbooks and Nakba. Two things.
> 
> And here you, again, confuse.  You chastised me for expecting others to post both sides...and then chastise me for not posting both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was thinking of the other post and the other list.  My bad.
> 
> I'm chastising you for claiming to be able to see and represent both sides while only posting one side.  Its the internal inconsistency that I am calling out.
Click to expand...


I don't think I've ever claimed to represent both sides...I've always said I see merit and right and wrong in both sides, but I've always been  pro-Palestinian in my general position.  I've never claimed otherwise.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...
Click to expand...


by Muslims...not Muslim extremists...not some Muslims - every statement has been a broad brush, not a narrow one.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
Click to expand...


My original point here was that there was a discussion about Arab Muslim ideology. Rather than respond to that ideology, you created a list of "bad things Israels (Jews) do".  

This suggests that if only Israels (Jews) would stop doing bad things, then Arab's wouldn't hold this vile ideology.  The implication is that the CAUSE of the Arab's vile ideology is the bad things Jews do.

Look at it like this:

There is a culture of entitlement to women's bodies and sex which is held by many men in our society and is broadly excused, accepted and/or supported, commonly called "rape culture".

Men just want to go on with their lives.  They are constantly exposed to ankles, hair and cleavage.  Short skirts are everywhere. Women's bodies move provocatively.  Women are found alone at night.  Women go on dates with men, and then don't provide the necessities of life that men need. Drinking places severe restrictions on the ability to judge whether consent is asked for and obtained.  Men are sick and tired of seeing sexual objects walking around and not being able to access them.  



If you can see the victim-blaming in the one, you should be able to see the victim-blaming in the other.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a one sided issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
Click to expand...

The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.

Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.

When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.

Introduction - 1948

This is a military attack.​


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My original point here was that there was a discussion about Arab Muslim ideology. Rather than respond to that ideology, you created a list of "bad things Israels (Jews) do".
> 
> This suggests that if only Israels (Jews) would stop doing bad things, then Arab's wouldn't hold this vile ideology.  The implication is that the CAUSE of the Arab's vile ideology is the bad things Jews do.
> 
> Look at it like this:
> 
> There is a culture of entitlement to women's bodies and sex which is held by many men in our society and is broadly excused, accepted and/or supported, commonly called "rape culture".
> 
> Men just want to go on with their lives.  They are constantly exposed to ankles, hair and cleavage.  Short skirts are everywhere. Women's bodies move provocatively.  Women are found alone at night.  Women go on dates with men, and then don't provide the necessities of life that men need. Drinking places severe restrictions on the ability to judge whether consent is asked for and obtained.  Men are sick and tired of seeing sexual objects walking around and not being able to access them.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can see the victim-blaming in the one, you should be able to see the victim-blaming in the other.
Click to expand...



That was absolutely not my intent, but I see the point you are making.

Does the same apply when one is talking about abuses under Israel's military justice system in regards to Palestinian minors, and the other responds with all the horrible things Palestinians do in their justice system?  That has actually come up.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.  There are 2 sides to every coin.  My relatives immigrated to Israel after WW2, when they had no place else to go to.
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
Click to expand...


The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.

There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.

There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.

All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.

Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My original point here was that there was a discussion about Arab Muslim ideology. Rather than respond to that ideology, you created a list of "bad things Israels (Jews) do".
> 
> This suggests that if only Israels (Jews) would stop doing bad things, then Arab's wouldn't hold this vile ideology.  The implication is that the CAUSE of the Arab's vile ideology is the bad things Jews do.
> 
> Look at it like this:
> 
> There is a culture of entitlement to women's bodies and sex which is held by many men in our society and is broadly excused, accepted and/or supported, commonly called "rape culture".
> 
> Men just want to go on with their lives.  They are constantly exposed to ankles, hair and cleavage.  Short skirts are everywhere. Women's bodies move provocatively.  Women are found alone at night.  Women go on dates with men, and then don't provide the necessities of life that men need. Drinking places severe restrictions on the ability to judge whether consent is asked for and obtained.  Men are sick and tired of seeing sexual objects walking around and not being able to access them.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can see the victim-blaming in the one, you should be able to see the victim-blaming in the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That was absolutely not my intent, but I see the point you are making.
> 
> Does the same apply when one is talking about abuses under Israel's military justice system in regards to Palestinian minors, and the other responds with all the horrible things Palestinians do in their justice system?  That has actually come up.
Click to expand...


I understand that was not your intent.  But, it was a deliberate avoidance of addressing the topic and resulted in blame-shifting.  Perhaps from unintended or unrecognized biases?  Something to think about.  

"The other side does it too" and "the other side is even worse" are logical fallacies and sloppy debate, if you ask me.  I, myself, try not to employ these types of arguments, though I probably don't always succeed.  

I think the best way to approach responding to accusations of this nature is to meet it head on, and if wrong-doing is discovered from your own Team (as it were) acknowledge the wrong-doing, clearly claim its wrongness and suggest ideas for improvement.  

Just my two cents.  Shrug.


----------



## Coyote

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are NOT two sides to every issue.  And sometimes is dangerous to think so.  (I read a great article about this not long ago, but can't find it just now.)
> 
> One of the reasons why it is dangerous is for exactly what you are attempting to do here:  minimize, reduce, push aside, claim something isn't real or isn't really happening.  Its rejecting reality, specifically rejecting the reality of the target, which is gaslighting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug.
> 
> I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.
> 
> Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs.
> 
> If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't post a list - just two examples, textbooks and Nakba. Two things.
> 
> And here you, again, confuse.  You chastised me for expecting others to post both sides...and then chastise me for not posting both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was thinking of the other post and the other list.  My bad.
> 
> I'm chastising you for claiming to be able to see and represent both sides while only posting one side.  Its the internal inconsistency that I am calling out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think I've ever claimed to represent both sides...I've always said I see merit and right and wrong in both sides, but I've always been  pro-Palestinian in my general position.  I've never claimed otherwise.
Click to expand...


I will add, because I am sure someone will attempt to say this.  Being pro-Palestinian does not mean supporting acts of terrorism, murdering civilians, etc.

My views are that the State of Israel is a here to stay, has every right to exist as a state for the Jewish people (or what ever they determine since it's their right as a state to define themselves) and the Palestinians must recognize this if they are to move on.  I believe they have the same rights as the Jewish people, including self determination in the region that is their homeland.  That would have meant a two-state solution but that is increasingly unlikely so I'm not sure what it means now.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug.
> 
> I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.
> 
> Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs.
> 
> If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't post a list - just two examples, textbooks and Nakba. Two things.
> 
> And here you, again, confuse.  You chastised me for expecting others to post both sides...and then chastise me for not posting both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was thinking of the other post and the other list.  My bad.
> 
> I'm chastising you for claiming to be able to see and represent both sides while only posting one side.  Its the internal inconsistency that I am calling out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think I've ever claimed to represent both sides...I've always said I see merit and right and wrong in both sides, but I've always been  pro-Palestinian in my general position.  I've never claimed otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will add, because I am sure someone will attempt to say this.  Being pro-Palestinian does not mean supporting acts of terrorism, murdering civilians, etc.
> 
> My views are that the State of Israel is a here to stay, has every right to exist as a state for the Jewish people (or what ever they determine since it's their right as a state to define themselves) and the Palestinians must recognize this if they are to move on.  I believe they have the same rights as the Jewish people, including self determination in the region that is their homeland.  That would have meant a two-state solution but that is increasingly unlikely so I'm not sure what it means now.
Click to expand...


This seems to me to be the only reasonable view to take.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote 

Why, would you say, is it that you argue the pro-Palestinian side primarily? Just curious.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't the Palestinian's fault. Why should they get bounced for that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
Click to expand...

You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was immigration on both sides - there were also Arabs, from Egypt, Syria etc. who immigrated to the region for work.  Why don't you blame them as well?
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
Click to expand...


Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.

And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> by Muslims...not Muslim extremists...not some Muslims - every statement has been a broad brush, not a narrow one.
Click to expand...



Well, two points

1.  The posts, taken in their entirety (at least on I/P), clearly name the ideology as the problem, not the religion and not the people.

2.  It takes a strong culture to support that much visible, tangible extremism.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree - there are always multiple sides.  That doesn't mean both sides and their arguments are equal, but to say there aren't two sides is to totally reject the other and to totally accept the dominant narrative even though sometimes that narrative is wrong.
> 
> Actually....I can think of things where there are NOT two sides that have legitimacy, and I guess those are things that deal with moral imperatives (if that is the correct term).
> 
> Targeting and killling innocent people, particularly children.
> Genocide.
> 
> There are probably others.  But if you are talking about the overall I/P conflict - a broad and complex issue, then yes there are two sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that article I was reading.  It was about six months ago though.  I'm pretty sure I printed it off and filed it somewhere for my work, but.... shrug.
> 
> I think we've clarified this enough that we are more-or-less on the same page here.  I agree with your last sentence.
> 
> Still, you didn't post about the broad and complex issues -- you posted a list of all the bad things Israel is doing.  As a direct response to comments about an ideology held by Arabs.
> 
> If you want to be seen as balanced and understanding and representing both sides, you need to NOT draw a straight line between Arab's vile ideology and bad things Israel is doing.  You need to show your work.  You need to demonstrate the broad and complex part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't post a list - just two examples, textbooks and Nakba. Two things.
> 
> And here you, again, confuse.  You chastised me for expecting others to post both sides...and then chastise me for not posting both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was thinking of the other post and the other list.  My bad.
> 
> I'm chastising you for claiming to be able to see and represent both sides while only posting one side.  Its the internal inconsistency that I am calling out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think I've ever claimed to represent both sides...I've always said I see merit and right and wrong in both sides, but I've always been  pro-Palestinian in my general position.  I've never claimed otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will add, because I am sure someone will attempt to say this.  Being pro-Palestinian does not mean supporting acts of terrorism, murdering civilians, etc.
> 
> My views are that the State of Israel is a here to stay, has every right to exist as a state for the Jewish people (or what ever they determine since it's their right as a state to define themselves) and the Palestinians must recognize this if they are to move on.  I believe they have the same rights as the Jewish people, including self determination in the region that is their homeland.  That would have meant a two-state solution but that is increasingly unlikely so I'm not sure what it means now.
Click to expand...


Except that no Jews in Israel has ever paid for any land.
It is given to them for free by the state, and that is because the state never paid for it.
Instead, all the land was paid for and owned by Arab Palestinians, and the land was all stolen by force.
The actual owners then were either murdered or threatened with violence until they fled.

Since the state of Israel has then been complicit in these criminal confiscations of Arab homes, how is the State of Israel legitimate or have a right to exist?
Look at the census data going back to 1900 or before.
The Jews in Israel are almost all illegal immigrants after 1930 to 1960.
That means they really have no legal right to be there even, much less to take land by force.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote
> 
> Why, would you say, is it that you argue the pro-Palestinian side primarily? Just curious.



Good question.  My views have somewhat shifted over my stay here so I'm not as unilaterally pro-Palestinian as I once was (I think I recognize the more complex nature of the conflict).

I guess I tend to support the underdog - which right now, is how I see the Palestinians.  The Israeli's operate from the side of strength - they won, they hold all the cards, they strong in terms of their military, in stability and purpose.  The Palestinians are a mess but they are real human beings, trying to raise families, trying to do their best to survive in pretty hard situations caught between corrupt leadership and Israel.  

Many have immigrated and built thriving successful communities in other countries, such as the US.  So clearly they aren't the all encompassing evil they are portrayed as by many. 

I also hate to see any group demonized whether it's Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Blacks - it's dangerous.  What if no one stands up for them?

That's a bit rambling I guess.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> by Muslims...not Muslim extremists...not some Muslims - every statement has been a broad brush, not a narrow one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, two points
> 
> 1.  The posts, taken in their entirety (at least on I/P), clearly name the ideology as the problem, not the religion and not the people.
> 
> 2.  It takes a strong culture to support that much visible, tangible extremism.
Click to expand...


1.  In the reference, the ideology and people are the same.  It's not a specific part of Islam being referred to.

2.  Do you mean Islam worldwide?  I think you have to look at it in a larger context - many conflicts involving religious factions are ethnic conflicts rather than religious conflicts.  The causes of a rise of extremism are also complicated - you can't just boil it down to a religion.  For example we are seeing a rise in rightwing extremism/white nationalism worldwide.  What drives it are some of the same factors that drive Islamic extremism (similar vulnerabilities in individuals that allow them to be recruited).  It's Islam now, but before that it was something else.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
Click to expand...


That is simply a lie.
There were no Arab immigrants to Palestine.
The Palestinians are the indigenous natives, going back over 5000 years, way before the Hebrew invasion around 1000 BC.
It was called the Land of Canaan for the reason it was owned by and populated by Canaanites, not Hebrew.
In fact, there were more Akkadians, Urites, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Philistines, etc., than there ever were Hebrew.
The Hebrew were never the natives.
They invaded around 1000 BC, and were kicked out continually by the Babylonians, Assyrians, and finally Romans.
There was no significant Jewish population in Palestine from 160 AD to 1945 AD.


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> by Muslims...not Muslim extremists...not some Muslims - every statement has been a broad brush, not a narrow one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, two points
> 
> 1.  The posts, taken in their entirety (at least on I/P), clearly name the ideology as the problem, not the religion and not the people.
> 
> 2.  It takes a strong culture to support that much visible, tangible extremism.
Click to expand...


This has nothing to do with religion, race, people, or culture.
If the land illegal taken from Arabs was returned or at least exchanged, then there would be no problem at all.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
Click to expand...


I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.

As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,

It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.    

I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the kuffar and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.

You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_ who have permanently dropped anchor in the seventh century and who are looking toward ways to expand the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder / suicide into the illusion of a pious man being granted a noble martyr's death: Hey, it's your delusion—have at it. The reality is, however, that Islamic killers live and thrive off of the suffering of everyday, decent humans. They find a religious duty in causing bloodshed. They see God's design in destruction and suffering. They feed on inculcating hatred and causing the agony of others. You may think that worldview is holy, but I happen to know that it's vile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
Click to expand...


"....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths..."

How else does one describe a cradle to grave program of indoctrination with a singular focus of gee-had against the Jewish people?

You obviously want to excuse the Hamas run, Hitler Youth styled "summer camps" as innocuous play time. I won't. 

I’m a bit more of a realist regarding the intentions of islam’s gee-had superstars. Their agenda is, of course, an Islamic Middle East (and more) modeled on a very rigid interpretation of the koran. An exclusively Arab Middle East, free of external influences (especially the hated “West”) is the stated goal. There’s little room for doubt, there. The tidal wave of anti-Americanism / anti-"westernism" has multiple wellsprings, of course. And they're understandably attached to a U.N.-centered vision of international law that has worked well enough in placating Islamic terrorism in the Middle East and in parts of Western Europe -- ever since America liberated and rebuilt the place -- but is useless against terrorists and rogue regimes with weapons of mass destruction. Mix in German pacifism; Russian insecurity; French ego and cynicism; Arab self-pity, paranoia, and envy; and near-universal resentment of the US as the motivator of all the ills afflicting the moslem world and you have a recipe for a belligerent, 7th century politico-religious ideology that cannot confront its failures.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs immigrated to be part of the Palestinian society.
> 
> The Zionist "immigrants" came to take over Palestine.
> 
> There were no similarities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children


I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.

Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.

So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.

Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 131
 Palestinians: 1656


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
Click to expand...



Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children. 

Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  They migrated for JOBS.
> 
> If we applied the logic equally - Jews immigrated to become part of the native Jewish society - in fact they originally settled in established Jewish communities.  There is no difference except different standards being applied.
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
Click to expand...


Gee-had carries consequences.

When you start a war, don't cry foul because you are trashed by a better trained, better equipped and more motivated opponent. 

The crocodiles you can shed tears with are over there   ------>


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths..."
> 
> How else does one describe a cradle to grave program of indoctrination with a singular focus of gee-had against the Jewish people?
> 
> You obviously want to excuse the Hamas run, Hitler Youth styled "summer camps" as innocuous play time. I won't.
> 
> I’m a bit more of a realist regarding the intentions of islam’s gee-had superstars. Their agenda is, of course, an Islamic Middle East (and more) modeled on a very rigid interpretation of the koran. An exclusively Arab Middle East, free of external influences (especially the hated “West”) is the stated goal. There’s little room for doubt, there. The tidal wave of anti-Americanism / anti-"westernism" has multiple wellsprings, of course. And they're understandably attached to a U.N.-centered vision of international law that has worked well enough in placating Islamic terrorism in the Middle East and in parts of Western Europe -- ever since America liberated and rebuilt the place -- but is useless against terrorists and rogue regimes with weapons of mass destruction. Mix in German pacifism; Russian insecurity; French ego and cynicism; Arab self-pity, paranoia, and envy; and near-universal resentment of the US as the motivator of all the ills afflicting the moslem world and you have a recipe for a belligerent, 7th century politico-religious ideology that cannot confront its failures.
Click to expand...


So...let's be clear Hollie - your issue is with ALL Muslims?  For example many many Muslim's who have immigrated to western countries adopted western values and are hardly extremists.  Majority of Muslims around the world do not support terrorism.


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> by Muslims...not Muslim extremists...not some Muslims - every statement has been a broad brush, not a narrow one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, two points
> 
> 1.  The posts, taken in their entirety (at least on I/P), clearly name the ideology as the problem, not the religion and not the people.
> 
> 2.  It takes a strong culture to support that much visible, tangible extremism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with religion, race, people, or culture.
> If the land illegal taken from Arabs was returned or at least exchanged, then there would be no problem at all.
Click to expand...


What's legal and what's illegal?  That land has been over run and taken by many peoples at many different times.  It's a popular spot.  The Muslims took it from the Christians who took it from the Jews.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.




So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
Click to expand...

Sure, I can agree.

Now can we dump the double standard?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee-had carries consequences.
> 
> When you start a war, don't cry foul because you are trashed by a better trained, better equipped and more motivated opponent.
> 
> The crocodiles you can shed tears with are over there   ------>
Click to expand...

Who started a war?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee-had carries consequences.
> 
> When you start a war, don't cry foul because you are trashed by a better trained, better equipped and more motivated opponent.
> 
> The crocodiles you can shed tears with are over there   ------>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who started a war?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


What war?

Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

José said:


> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
Click to expand...



Barbary pirates - Wikipedia


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
Click to expand...


Nonsense.
First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
You are also lying about the Kaffir.
They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
You just do not know what an atrocity is.
And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the kuffar and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
Click to expand...


I've also read the Koran, as well as a history of Mohammed and some other history.  My focus has not been confined or constrained by looking only for information on Jihad.  There are a lot of rules and regulations in Islam, on how to treat people, enemies, conduct warfare, etc etc as well as frankly contradictory information. There is a lot of good stuff as well as violent stuff.  It's a lot like the Bible in that sense which also had people doing horrible things to other people in the name of their religion.

 What tends to strike me about your focus is it's narrowness.  For example you claim atrocities (and I'm presuming you mean such as ISIS perpetrated) are perfectly Islamic, yet Islamic leaders and clerics around the world denounced it as unIslamic (I guess you know better than they about their religion and you consider them to be misguided?).

It's not worth arguing because we have clearly different points of view here, though I do agree that Islam in many parts of the world needs a reformation.

So am I correct in that your statements apply to Islam as a whole and all Muslims - not just Palestinians?


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
Click to expand...


It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many many Palestinians who just want a decent life for themselves and their families and see nothing coming from leadership, corruption, and constant threats of violence from Israel. Infrastructure is repeatedly targeted and destroyed.  Embargos place severe restrictions on how they live.  Many of the people massing at the border fence aren't "Islamic terrorists" but just plain fed up and desperate people.  People who are sick and tired of seeing their agriculture destroyed, children assaulted by stone throwing settlers and land taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response here absolutely REEKS of "its all the Jews fault".
> 
> "If only the Jews would stop attacking the poor, innocent Arabs so that the Arabs could just have a decent life for themselves, then everything would be rainbows and unicorns."
> 
> You pretend that the culture of violence and the ideology of mass murder and suicide is nothing but a response to Jewish "evil", as if the "Jews made them do it".
> 
> Tinmore couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh bullshit.  You are totally ignoring the complexity of the issue - TOTALLY.  I'm not laying blame - I'm calling bull on your claim that it is entirely one sided and simplistic.  You know it isn't.  So quit jumping to the "it's the Jooooos" victimhood defense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> Hollie's paragraph was about ideology.
> 
> If you want me to stop using the "Joooooooos victimhood defense" *STOP giving me cause *to.
> 
> You can do that by addressing Hollie's points in her post.  Instead of (one-sidedly and without context) listing all the things which Israel (Jews) are "doing" to the Arabs which is preventing their "peaceful" life.  Stop ignoring the ideology and claiming that "if only the Jews would stop doing these terrible things, then there would be peace".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Please.  Try to apply your standards evenly and DO NOT CLAIM I AM SAYING THINGS I DID NOT SAY.   That is incredibly dishonest!
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths..."
> 
> How else does one describe a cradle to grave program of indoctrination with a singular focus of gee-had against the Jewish people?
> 
> You obviously want to excuse the Hamas run, Hitler Youth styled "summer camps" as innocuous play time. I won't.
> 
> I’m a bit more of a realist regarding the intentions of islam’s gee-had superstars. Their agenda is, of course, an Islamic Middle East (and more) modeled on a very rigid interpretation of the koran. An exclusively Arab Middle East, free of external influences (especially the hated “West”) is the stated goal. There’s little room for doubt, there. The tidal wave of anti-Americanism / anti-"westernism" has multiple wellsprings, of course. And they're understandably attached to a U.N.-centered vision of international law that has worked well enough in placating Islamic terrorism in the Middle East and in parts of Western Europe -- ever since America liberated and rebuilt the place -- but is useless against terrorists and rogue regimes with weapons of mass destruction. Mix in German pacifism; Russian insecurity; French ego and cynicism; Arab self-pity, paranoia, and envy; and near-universal resentment of the US as the motivator of all the ills afflicting the moslem world and you have a recipe for a belligerent, 7th century politico-religious ideology that cannot confront its failures.
Click to expand...


That is insane.
The word Jihad, means to act correctly.
It sort of mean pity, and has nothing at all to do with harming anyone.

And if there had ever been a sense of conflict between Muslims and Jews, then Jews would not have lived under Moslem rule for so many thousands of years.
In fact, there would have been no Jews in Spain.

Zionists are not Jews.
Zionists are secular, against Judaism, and illegally want to steal land from indigenous natives.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
Click to expand...


As far as murdering innocents like children, read the Old Testament some day.

{...
The Book of Joshua is the story of how Israel conquered Canaan. Joshua, the leader of the Israelites, sent two spies to Jericho, the first city of Canaan that they decided to conquer, and discovered that the land was in fear of them and their God. The Israelites marched around the walls once every day for six days with the priests carrying the Ark of the Covenant. On the seventh day they marched seven times around the walls, then the priests blew their ram's horns, the Israelites raised a great shout, and the walls of the city fell.* Following God's law they killed every man, woman, and child*, as well as the oxen, sheep, and donkeys. Only Rahab, a Canaanite prostitute who had sheltered the spies, her parents, brothers and all "those who belonged to her" were spared. Joshua then cursed anybody who rebuilt the foundations and gates, with the deaths of their firstborn and youngest child respectively. This was eventually fulfilled by Hiel the Bethelite under King Ahab's reign.
...}


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia



Since when piracy is the same as anti-americanism?

Piracy is banditry, criminal activity.

They couldn't care less about the nationality of the ship.

They were already raiding ships 700 years before Jamestown.



> While such raids had occurred since soon after the Muslim conquest of Iberia in the 8th century, the terms "Barbary pirates" and "Barbary corsairs" are normally applied to the raiders active from the 16th century onwards
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia



If you don't have any examples of muslim anti-americanism prior to 1948 just say so.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee-had carries consequences.
> 
> When you start a war, don't cry foul because you are trashed by a better trained, better equipped and more motivated opponent.
> 
> The crocodiles you can shed tears with are over there   ------>
Click to expand...


And when have Palestinians ever started a war?
The 1948 war was started by Zionists massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.
Even Israel admits it started the 1967 war, to invade Jerusalem.
About the only war Arab started was the 1973 war, to get the Sinai back.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sometimes yes...it is.  When groups are separated it becomes much easier to see them as "the other" and attribute or believe bad things about them.
> 
> It's a whole lot different when you sit down to supper with the "other" and meet them as people.  That often destroys stereotypes.
> 
> One of the unintended consequences of Israel's policy of total separation is that the two groups have far less interaction.
Click to expand...

What planet are you posting from?  Here on Earth  it is the PA and Hamas that are opposed to Palestinians having anything to do with Israelis, not Israel opposing contacts with Palestinians.  Do you notice how you always blame everything on the Jews, even things the Palestinians are doing, and then say, "Who?  Me?  Anti semitic?"  

Each day tens of thousands of Palestinians break PA law by going to work in Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria under the full protection of Israel's labor laws, earning from two to six times as much as the could anywhere else and the result of these mutually beneficial interactions is peace and prosperity for both parties.  These Israeli communities are built by Palestinian workers and by Palestinians companies.   While people like you and Tinmore wallow in hate and cherish more conflict, these Israelis and Palestinians are making peace everyday, and if Palestinian owned companies were able to do business with Israeli companies, this peace would be more widespread.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....used by Moslems to breed generation after generation of religious psychopaths...
> 
> 
> That is talking about MUSLIMS.
> 
> Go ahead and defend. I do not find any more defendable then Tinmore's comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is talking about the* ideology *used by Muslims...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> by Muslims...not Muslim extremists...not some Muslims - every statement has been a broad brush, not a narrow one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, two points
> 
> 1.  The posts, taken in their entirety (at least on I/P), clearly name the ideology as the problem, not the religion and not the people.
> 
> 2.  It takes a strong culture to support that much visible, tangible extremism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with religion, race, people, or culture.
> If the land illegal taken from Arabs was returned or at least exchanged, then there would be no problem at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's legal and what's illegal?  That land has been over run and taken by many peoples at many different times.  It's a popular spot.  The Muslims took it from the Christians who took it from the Jews.
Click to expand...


Nonsense.
The Arab Canaanites, Akkadians, Urites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Philistines, Phoenicians, etc., always lived there and have always owned the land.
When the Levant was over run, that only changed who ruled, not who lived there.
Christians never lived there in any number, and neither did Jews.
The vast majority were Arabs who later became Moslems.
They never moved, left, or entered.
That would be against their culture.
The Jews were only invaders who for just a few hundred years.
They were defeated by the Babylonians, Assyrians, and the Romans, and were hardly ever in or ruling the Land of Canaan.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


The Barbary pirates are not Arab.
They are Berber, of ancient Egyptian ruling class heritage.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the kuffar and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've also read the Koran, as well as a history of Mohammed and some other history.  My focus has not been confined or constrained by looking only for information on Jihad.  There are a lot of rules and regulations in Islam, on how to treat people, enemies, conduct warfare, etc etc as well as frankly contradictory information. There is a lot of good stuff as well as violent stuff.  It's a lot like the Bible in that sense which also had people doing horrible things to other people in the name of their religion.
> 
> What tends to strike me about your focus is it's narrowness.  For example you claim atrocities (and I'm presuming you mean such as ISIS perpetrated) are perfectly Islamic, yet Islamic leaders and clerics around the world denounced it as unIslamic (I guess you know better than they about their religion and you consider them to be misguided?).
> 
> It's not worth arguing because we have clearly different points of view here, though I do agree that Islam in many parts of the world needs a reformation.
> 
> So am I correct in that your statements apply to Islam as a whole and all Muslims - not just Palestinians?
Click to expand...


I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.

It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.

And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law

Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that. 

Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.  Show me where the distinction is made in her post.  In the meantime, I'll use YOUR logic and assume that Tinmore doesn't really have issues against Jews but only "Zionists".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.
Click to expand...


True, but Koran is more the Victorian colonial spelling and not the modern nationalist spelling.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Barbary pirates are not Arab.
> They are Berber, of ancient Egyptian ruling class heritage.
Click to expand...


arab - muslim world 

DURR


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  The indoctrination and exploitation of people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology which has a source in Islam.
> 
> And you can't see the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but Koran is more the Victorian colonial spelling and not the modern nationalist spelling.
Click to expand...


Otherwise, it's the _Islamic Hate and War Manual_. <----- Capitalized so as not to hurt your feelings.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a whole lot one can say in regards to the claims made in that one sentence but I'm going to keep it simple:
> 
> Is there any way - any way at all - a 2 yr old child is NOT INNOCENT?
> 
> How can you possibly justify the targeting and killing of a CHILD?
> 
> I think I know the answer - you will blame the parents, the government, etc.  But that is a diversion.
> 
> I want to know what a child can possibly have done to justify murder.
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis choose to raise their families in Israel's war zone. They should have the responsibility to protect them. Israel has put its war zone in Palestine. The Palestinians are not responsible for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol There is no war zone.  There are parts of many large US cities that are far more dangerous than anything the so called Palestinians can muster.  There is no armed struggle, just hate crimes from the politically and socially backward Palestinian society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sometimes yes...it is.  When groups are separated it becomes much easier to see them as "the other" and attribute or believe bad things about them.
> 
> It's a whole lot different when you sit down to supper with the "other" and meet them as people.  That often destroys stereotypes.
> 
> One of the unintended consequences of Israel's policy of total separation is that the two groups have far less interaction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What planet are you posting from?  Here on Earth  it is the PA and Hamas that are opposed to Palestinians having anything to do with Israelis, not Israel opposing contacts with Palestinians.  Do you notice how you always blame everything on the Jews, even things the Palestinians are doing, and then say, "Who?  Me?  Anti semitic?"
> 
> Each day tens of thousands of Palestinians break PA law by going to work in Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria under the full protection of Israel's labor laws, earning from two to six times as much as the could anywhere else and the result of these mutually beneficial interactions is peace and prosperity for both parties.  These Israeli communities are built by Palestinian workers and by Palestinians companies.   While people like you and Tinmore wallow in hate and cherish more conflict, these Israelis and Palestinians are making peace everyday, and if Palestinian owned companies were able to do business with Israeli companies, this peace would be more widespread.
Click to expand...



First you misappropriate the word "Semitic".
It does NOT mean Jewish.
It means of the Arab language group.
It came from a deliberate reference to Shem, a son of Noah, and intended to refer to the Arab root, of which the Hebrew came from much later.

Second is that Israel is constantly and illegally harming Arabs, so those helping Israel are traitors.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Barbary pirates are not Arab.
> They are Berber, of ancient Egyptian ruling class heritage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> arab - muslim world
> 
> DURR
Click to expand...


Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?
The answer is no.
Neither are Iranians.

As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.
The Mongols definitely were not, and totally wiped out the entire Moslem leadership.
There essentially was no Islamic leadership after around 1200 AD or so.
As time went on, these invaders adopted more and more Islamic tradition, but it is not clear how Moslem they will ever be?
Is Turkey Moslem or not, is not easy to answer.


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is rather difficult to "see the difference" when you create a quote from Tinmore (based on your reading of what his views are) and then quote literally from Hollie with no personal interpretation.
> 
> Try this:
> Tinmore:  Its permissible, even honorable, to kill children because they are Jewish and present.
> 
> Hollie:  Islam - a religion which indoctrinates and exploits people, including children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology.
> 
> She will go on about how Mohammed was a pedo and Islam is a religion of pedophilia if given a chance as well.
> 
> She is not separating out extremists - she was very clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but Koran is more the Victorian colonial spelling and not the modern nationalist spelling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Otherwise, it's the _Islamic Hate and War Manual_. <----- Capitalized so as not to hurt your feelings.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
The Quran is quite clear that no one is to ever be harmed except in defense.
There can also never be compulsion over religion.

The wars from the Mideast towards Europe were Mongols, Moguls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks, not Arab Muslims.

But I do appreciate the capitalization, even though I am Jewish and not Muslim.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve never posyed that Muhammud was a pedophile so I ask that you use the “quote” function when you attribute comments to me.
> 
> As to Islamic ideology being the catalyst to indoctrinate and exploit children, which encourages, celebrates, rewards and glorifies killing innocent people in mass attacks while committing suicide is a vile ideology, I can point you to any number of articles I have linked to the PA and Hamas. The Hamas Charter has 92 separate references to “Allah”. So yes, Islamic ideology is a function of the actions perpetrated by Hamas, for one example,
> 
> It’s not attacking anything to point out the realities of Islamic terrorism. While I understand you would hope to relegate any demands of accountability to “attacking Islam”, the fact is, we live in a very dangerous reality where adherents to a particular politico-religious ideology are, with virtual exclusivity, responsible for the most outrageous acts of mass murder. Ignoring that reality or hoping to excuse it with references such as “but… but… but… but what about…” is not going to address the reality of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> I read the koran, which Moslems believe is God's uncreated, perfect, and literal word. It was tedious, incondite, and long-winded, but instructive nevertheless in demonstrating a firm religious basis for subjugation of the and for the violent expansion of Islamic supremacy through gee-had. I found this sanction and obligation for holy war in the koran confirmed and reinforced when I read the hadith (the collections of sunnah—the deeds, behavior, and words of Muhammad and his companions) of Bukhari and Muslim, which are considered to be wholly authentic. Throughout the sunnah, gee-had is glorified as a supreme act of faith. I've also read _Sirat Rasul Allah_, Muhammad's sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, the _'Umdat al-Salik_ manual of Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence as applied in shari'ah law), works by Sayyid Qutb, Ibn Taimiyyah, Abul-A`la al-Maududi, Abdullah Azzam, and any other writings I could find from sheikhs and “scholars”. I've read up on Islam's history, particularly focusing on gee-had and its colonialist/imperialistic character. I also began to follow the worldwide gee-had in the media, and I started to pay more attention to what had been going on in the islamist Middle East.
> 
> You’ve made no supportable case that the atrocities committed by islamists are unislamic. When clear and identifiable associations are made by Moelems that their atrocities are in furtherance of Islamic ideology, I have no reason to believe that they are somehow misguided.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but Koran is more the Victorian colonial spelling and not the modern nationalist spelling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Otherwise, it's the _Islamic Hate and War Manual_. <----- Capitalized so as not to hurt your feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The Quran is quite clear that no one is to ever be harmed except in defense.
> There can also never be compulsion over religion.
> 
> The wars from the Mideast towards Europe were Mongols, Moguls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks, not Arab Muslims.
Click to expand...


The history of Arab-Islamic war and conquest is quite clear you’re wrong.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but Koran is more the Victorian colonial spelling and not the modern nationalist spelling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Otherwise, it's the _Islamic Hate and War Manual_. <----- Capitalized so as not to hurt your feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The Quran is quite clear that no one is to ever be harmed except in defense.
> There can also never be compulsion over religion.
> 
> The wars from the Mideast towards Europe were Mongols, Moguls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The history of Arab-Islamic conquest is quite clear you’re wrong.
Click to expand...

Don't encourage him.  Just drop a  few coins in his cup and move on.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Barbary pirates are not Arab.
> They are Berber, of ancient Egyptian ruling class heritage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> arab - muslim world
> 
> DURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?
> The answer is no.
> Neither are Iranians.
> 
> As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.
> The Mongols definitely were not, and totally wiped out the entire Moslem leadership.
> There essentially was no Islamic leadership after around 1200 AD or so.
> As time went on, these invaders adopted more and more Islamic tradition, but it is not clear how Moslem they will ever be?
> Is Turkey Moslem or not, is not easy to answer.
Click to expand...


*Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?*

Are they muslim?

*Neither are Iranians.*​​*As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.*​
You should go to Iran and tell them you doubt they're Muslims.
Have a video of your experience posted here.​


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> First of all, it is the Quran and not koran.  Nor would anyone not capitalize a proper noun like that.  It is just like capitalizing the Bible, or Zionist.
> And no, the Quran is very clear that it is not created by God, and does have mistakes and corrections, unlike the Bible, which does claim to be perfect.
> You are also lying about the Kaffir.
> They are considered undisciplined and therefore dangerous and unpredictable, but Jews and Christians are not considered to be dangerous or unpredictable, and it is considered they have an equally valid path to heaven and salvation.
> The Quran is very clear on harming anyone being wrong except as necessary in defense.
> But your main false claim is that Islamists commit any atrocities at all.
> They do not and can not, if they are Islamists.
> You just do not know what an atrocity is.
> And there are no innocent Israelis when they knowingly occupy homes and farms that were illegally stolen from the indigenous native owners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It can be the Quran or Koran - it's in Arabic script anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but Koran is more the Victorian colonial spelling and not the modern nationalist spelling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Otherwise, it's the _Islamic Hate and War Manual_. <----- Capitalized so as not to hurt your feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The Quran is quite clear that no one is to ever be harmed except in defense.
> There can also never be compulsion over religion.
> 
> The wars from the Mideast towards Europe were Mongols, Moguls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks, not Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The history of Arab-Islamic war and conquest is quite clear you’re wrong.
Click to expand...


It is easy to totally disprove your false claim.
After the Zionists started the 1948 war, the Zionist tried to attack Jerusalem, and were defeated by the Jordanians.
So then were all the captured Jews murdered?
No, they were all allowed to leave and go to Israel that was created by the UN.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Barbary pirates are not Arab.
> They are Berber, of ancient Egyptian ruling class heritage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> arab - muslim world
> 
> DURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?
> The answer is no.
> Neither are Iranians.
> 
> As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.
> The Mongols definitely were not, and totally wiped out the entire Moslem leadership.
> There essentially was no Islamic leadership after around 1200 AD or so.
> As time went on, these invaders adopted more and more Islamic tradition, but it is not clear how Moslem they will ever be?
> Is Turkey Moslem or not, is not easy to answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?*
> 
> Are they muslim?
> 
> *Neither are Iranians.*
> 
> *As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.*
> 
> You should go to Iran and tell them you doubt they're Muslims.
> Have a video of your experience posted here.​
Click to expand...


The Mongols obviously were not at all Muslim.
The Moguls who invaded India, likely were not really Muslim.
The Moors might have been Muslim?
The Mamelukes likely were opportunists.
The Turks likely were and are not really Muslim.

The Iranians are Shia, and the Sunni and Shia have always fought over which was really Islamic.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
Click to expand...


Ok.  Thank you!  Couldn't you have said that straight off?

Second - is there a difference, in your view, between deliberately targeting kids (example - the Itmar massacre or the Dumas massacre) and, kids being accidentally killed in a military action?


----------



## Coyote

Toddsterpatriot said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Sigh...not that old canard.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Barbary pirates are not Arab.
> They are Berber, of ancient Egyptian ruling class heritage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> arab - muslim world
> 
> DURR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?
> The answer is no.
> Neither are Iranians.
> 
> As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.
> The Mongols definitely were not, and totally wiped out the entire Moslem leadership.
> There essentially was no Islamic leadership after around 1200 AD or so.
> As time went on, these invaders adopted more and more Islamic tradition, but it is not clear how Moslem they will ever be?
> Is Turkey Moslem or not, is not easy to answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Are the Mongols, Moguls, Mamelukes, Moors, or Turks Arabs?*
> 
> Are they muslim?
> 
> *Neither are Iranians.*
> 
> *As to whether they are Moslem or not, that is also up for contention.*
> 
> You should go to Iran and tell them you doubt they're Muslims.
> Have a video of your experience posted here.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mongols obviously were not at all Muslim.
> The Moguls who invaded India, likely were not really Muslim.
> The Moors might have been Muslim?
> The Mamelukes likely were opportunists.
> The Turks likely were and are not really Muslim.
> 
> The Iranians are Shia, and the Sunni and Shia have always fought over which was really Islamic.
Click to expand...


Blah, blah, blah.

Back to your error (lie?) about no Anti-Americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Coyote said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh...not that old canard.
Click to expand...


They weren't pirates? They weren't Muslim? Be more specific in your error.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.



I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.



> It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.



I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.

Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.



> And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law



And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).



> Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that.
> 
> Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.



The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.


----------



## Coyote

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Toddsterpatriot*
> Of course, Muslims would suddenly become peaceful if Israel gave land to some Muslims.
> 
> Moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So be a man and show us a single example of anti-americanism in the arab - muslim world before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Barbary pirates - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh...not that old canard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They weren't pirates? They weren't Muslim? Be more specific in your error.
Click to expand...


Their being Muslim was irrelevant to their piracy - which occurs all over.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.
> 
> Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that.
> 
> Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.
Click to expand...



I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.


Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.

Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.

Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.

I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.

This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.

A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.



To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"


*610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
*613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
*615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
*619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
*620* - Institution of five daily prayers
*622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
*623* - Battle of Waddan
*623* - Battle of Safwan
*623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
*624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
*624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
*624* - Battle of Badr
*624* - Battle of Bani Salim
*624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
*624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
*624* - Battle of Sawiq
*624* - Battle of Ghatfan
*624* - Battle of Bahran
*625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
*625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
*625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
*625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
*626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
*626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
*626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
*627* - Battle of the Trench
*627* - Battle of Ahzab
*627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
*627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
*627* - Battle of Ghaiba
*627* - Battle of Khaibar
*628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
*630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
*630* - Battle of Hunsin.
*630* - Battle of Tabuk
*632* - Muhammad dies.
*632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
*633* - Battle at Oman
*633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
*633* - Battle of Kazima
*633* - Battle of Walaja
*633* - Battle of Ulleis
*633* - Battle of Anbar
*634* - Battle of Basra,
*634* - Battle of Damascus
*634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
*634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
*634* - Battle of Namaraq
*634* - Battle of Saqatia.
*635* - Battle of Bridge.
*635* - Battle of Buwaib.
*635* - Conquest of Damascus.
*635* - Battle of Fahl.
*636* - Battle of Yermuk.
*636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
*636* - Conquest of Madain.
*637* - Battle of Jalula.
*638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
*638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
*638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
*639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
*641* - Battle of Nihawand
*642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
*643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
*644* - Conquest of Fars
*644* - Conquest of Kharan.
*644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
*647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
*644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
*648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
*651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
*654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
*656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
*658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
*659* - Conquest of Egypt
*661* - Ali is murdered.
*662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
*666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
*677* - Siege of Constantinople
*687* - Battle of Kufa
*691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
*700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
*700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
*702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
*711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
*711* - Conquest of Spain
*713* - Conquest of Multan
*716* - Invasion of Constantinople
*732* - Battle of Tours in France.
*740* - Battle of the Nobles.
*741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
*744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
*746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
*748* - Battle of Rayy.
*749* - Battle of lsfahan
*749* - Battle of Nihawand
*750* - Battle of Zab
*772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
*777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain


After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:

He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.

He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
Click to expand...


You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the immigration makes a big difference.
> 
> Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.
> 
> When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.
> 
> Introduction - 1948​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
Click to expand...

lol  You seem never to be able to tell the truth.  Palestinian children are not targeted by Israel.  Why do you feel the need to lie so often?


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.
> 
> Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that.
> 
> Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.
> 
> Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.
> 
> Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.
> 
> I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.
> 
> This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.
> 
> A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"
> 
> 
> *610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
> *613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
> *615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
> *619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
> *620* - Institution of five daily prayers
> *622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
> *623* - Battle of Waddan
> *623* - Battle of Safwan
> *623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
> *624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
> *624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
> *624* - Battle of Badr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Salim
> *624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
> *624* - Battle of Sawiq
> *624* - Battle of Ghatfan
> *624* - Battle of Bahran
> *625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
> *625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
> *625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
> *625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
> *626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
> *626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
> *626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
> *627* - Battle of the Trench
> *627* - Battle of Ahzab
> *627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
> *627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
> *627* - Battle of Ghaiba
> *627* - Battle of Khaibar
> *628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
> *630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
> *630* - Battle of Hunsin.
> *630* - Battle of Tabuk
> *632* - Muhammad dies.
> *632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
> *633* - Battle at Oman
> *633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
> *633* - Battle of Kazima
> *633* - Battle of Walaja
> *633* - Battle of Ulleis
> *633* - Battle of Anbar
> *634* - Battle of Basra,
> *634* - Battle of Damascus
> *634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
> *634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
> *634* - Battle of Namaraq
> *634* - Battle of Saqatia.
> *635* - Battle of Bridge.
> *635* - Battle of Buwaib.
> *635* - Conquest of Damascus.
> *635* - Battle of Fahl.
> *636* - Battle of Yermuk.
> *636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
> *636* - Conquest of Madain.
> *637* - Battle of Jalula.
> *638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
> *638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
> *638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
> *639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
> *641* - Battle of Nihawand
> *642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
> *643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
> *644* - Conquest of Fars
> *644* - Conquest of Kharan.
> *644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
> *647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
> *644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
> *648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
> *651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
> *654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
> *656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
> *658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
> *659* - Conquest of Egypt
> *661* - Ali is murdered.
> *662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
> *666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
> *677* - Siege of Constantinople
> *687* - Battle of Kufa
> *691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
> *700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
> *700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
> *702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
> *711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
> *711* - Conquest of Spain
> *713* - Conquest of Multan
> *716* - Invasion of Constantinople
> *732* - Battle of Tours in France.
> *740* - Battle of the Nobles.
> *741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
> *744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
> *746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
> *748* - Battle of Rayy.
> *749* - Battle of lsfahan
> *749* - Battle of Nihawand
> *750* - Battle of Zab
> *772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
> *777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
> 
> 
> After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:
> 
> He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
> 
> He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.
Click to expand...


You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.

Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)

Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?

Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.

Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.  

Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.

The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.


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## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> The purposes of immigration were pluralistic.  There had long been Jewish immigration to Israel, as a form of returning to one's native land, without the idea of creating a state.
> 
> There was immigration, particularly after the Holocaust, where the idea of a state became a matter of survival.
> 
> There were PLURALISTIC views among Jews at the time as to the creation of a state, the make up of the state, and the ethnicity of it's citizenry.  The attitude that won out was a democratic state, set up as a homeland for the Jewish people, and all citizenry having equal rights (at least in theory).  The minority factions that called for driving out the Arabs were decisively overruled.
> 
> All of this 70 years ago...3 generations of people.
> 
> Are we going to bang on about the events 70 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  You seem never to be able to tell the truth.  Palestinian children are not targeted by Israel.  Why do you feel the need to lie so often?
Click to expand...


Why do you insist on lying?  Is it because you are unusually dense?

Fact:  I did not say that.  Reread my post and try not to make up shit.


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## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.

When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.

I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.

But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.


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## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> You are arguing with me without looking at the information I posted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  You seem never to be able to tell the truth.  Palestinian children are not targeted by Israel.  Why do you feel the need to lie so often?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you insist on lying?  Is it because you are unusually dense?
> 
> Fact:  I did not say that.  Reread my post and try not to make up shit.
Click to expand...

Maybe you are just too stupid to understand your own posts or maybe you are just a shameless liar.  You said, "Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?"  Who is targeting Palestinian children in your imagination?


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## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> Your information is taking one faction, and it's out of a larger context. I do not disagree that there was desire for increased territory (and still is) and that there were and are factions who still desire this.  BUT - that is not what Israel ended up being.  Despite some very real issues imo (and I've gone on about them - absentee landowner laws, refusal to allow many to return, etc) - they set up a democratic state where *Arab citizens have the right to vote, have a voice in politics * and that is what we have now...70 years later.  What you said doesn't support the claim you made that all Jewish immigration was to "invade" or even create a state.  There were many reasons.  So if you're going to damn the Jewish immigrants, then you need to be consistent and damn the Arab immigrants.
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children - I simply can't.  If you view Israeli airstrikes that kill children with horror - how can you not view slitting a baby's throat with horror?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly Tinmore...I know you are a grandfather, I can't understand how you can justify terrorism that targets and kills children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  You seem never to be able to tell the truth.  Palestinian children are not targeted by Israel.  Why do you feel the need to lie so often?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you insist on lying?  Is it because you are unusually dense?
> 
> Fact:  I did not say that.  Reread my post and try not to make up shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you are just too stupid to understand your own posts or maybe you are just a shameless liar.  You said, "Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?"  Who is targeting Palestinian children in your imagination?
Click to expand...


No.  You are just too pigheaded to understand what I was saying.

Is it wrong to target and kill Palestinian children?  Yes.

Is it wrong to target and kill Jewish children? Yes.

It is wrong to target and kill children period. YES!!!!!

This is not saying whether or not anyone is doing it.  So bugger off.


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## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> I really don't. I just try to point out a double standard.
> 
> Israel can kill hundreds of Palestinian children and it is ho hum. If one Israeli child gets killed it is world wide front page news and we hear about on this board for years.
> 
> So why is it OK for Israel but not OK for the Palestinians.
> 
> Israel kills children yet the Palestinians are expected to sit on their hands.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
> Israelis: 131
> Palestinians: 1656
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  You seem never to be able to tell the truth.  Palestinian children are not targeted by Israel.  Why do you feel the need to lie so often?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you insist on lying?  Is it because you are unusually dense?
> 
> Fact:  I did not say that.  Reread my post and try not to make up shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you are just too stupid to understand your own posts or maybe you are just a shameless liar.  You said, "Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?"  Who is targeting Palestinian children in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  You are just too pigheaded to understand what I was saying.
> 
> Is it wrong to target and kill Palestinian children?  Yes.
> 
> Is it wrong to target and kill Jewish children? Yes.
> 
> It is wrong to target and kill children period. YES!!!!!
> 
> This is not saying whether or not anyone is doing it.  So bugger off.
Click to expand...

Again, you just don't seem capable of putting up a  post without lying.  If you didn't mean to say anyone was tartetting children, why would you bring it up?  Disabuse yourself of the notion you are clever enough to hide your bigotry.


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## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
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> Hollie said:
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> I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.
> 
> Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that.
> 
> Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.
> 
> Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.
> 
> Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.
> 
> I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.
> 
> This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.
> 
> A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"
> 
> 
> *610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
> *613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
> *615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
> *619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
> *620* - Institution of five daily prayers
> *622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
> *623* - Battle of Waddan
> *623* - Battle of Safwan
> *623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
> *624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
> *624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
> *624* - Battle of Badr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Salim
> *624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
> *624* - Battle of Sawiq
> *624* - Battle of Ghatfan
> *624* - Battle of Bahran
> *625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
> *625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
> *625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
> *625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
> *626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
> *626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
> *626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
> *627* - Battle of the Trench
> *627* - Battle of Ahzab
> *627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
> *627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
> *627* - Battle of Ghaiba
> *627* - Battle of Khaibar
> *628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
> *630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
> *630* - Battle of Hunsin.
> *630* - Battle of Tabuk
> *632* - Muhammad dies.
> *632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
> *633* - Battle at Oman
> *633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
> *633* - Battle of Kazima
> *633* - Battle of Walaja
> *633* - Battle of Ulleis
> *633* - Battle of Anbar
> *634* - Battle of Basra,
> *634* - Battle of Damascus
> *634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
> *634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
> *634* - Battle of Namaraq
> *634* - Battle of Saqatia.
> *635* - Battle of Bridge.
> *635* - Battle of Buwaib.
> *635* - Conquest of Damascus.
> *635* - Battle of Fahl.
> *636* - Battle of Yermuk.
> *636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
> *636* - Conquest of Madain.
> *637* - Battle of Jalula.
> *638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
> *638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
> *638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
> *639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
> *641* - Battle of Nihawand
> *642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
> *643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
> *644* - Conquest of Fars
> *644* - Conquest of Kharan.
> *644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
> *647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
> *644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
> *648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
> *651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
> *654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
> *656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
> *658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
> *659* - Conquest of Egypt
> *661* - Ali is murdered.
> *662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
> *666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
> *677* - Siege of Constantinople
> *687* - Battle of Kufa
> *691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
> *700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
> *700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
> *702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
> *711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
> *711* - Conquest of Spain
> *713* - Conquest of Multan
> *716* - Invasion of Constantinople
> *732* - Battle of Tours in France.
> *740* - Battle of the Nobles.
> *741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
> *744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
> *746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
> *748* - Battle of Rayy.
> *749* - Battle of lsfahan
> *749* - Battle of Nihawand
> *750* - Battle of Zab
> *772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
> *777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
> 
> 
> After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:
> 
> He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
> 
> He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.
> 
> Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)
> 
> Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?
> 
> Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.
> 
> Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.
> 
> Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
Click to expand...


Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.

That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.
> 
> Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that.
> 
> Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.
> 
> Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.
> 
> Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.
> 
> I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.
> 
> This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.
> 
> A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"
> 
> 
> *610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
> *613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
> *615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
> *619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
> *620* - Institution of five daily prayers
> *622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
> *623* - Battle of Waddan
> *623* - Battle of Safwan
> *623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
> *624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
> *624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
> *624* - Battle of Badr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Salim
> *624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
> *624* - Battle of Sawiq
> *624* - Battle of Ghatfan
> *624* - Battle of Bahran
> *625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
> *625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
> *625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
> *625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
> *626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
> *626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
> *626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
> *627* - Battle of the Trench
> *627* - Battle of Ahzab
> *627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
> *627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
> *627* - Battle of Ghaiba
> *627* - Battle of Khaibar
> *628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
> *630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
> *630* - Battle of Hunsin.
> *630* - Battle of Tabuk
> *632* - Muhammad dies.
> *632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
> *633* - Battle at Oman
> *633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
> *633* - Battle of Kazima
> *633* - Battle of Walaja
> *633* - Battle of Ulleis
> *633* - Battle of Anbar
> *634* - Battle of Basra,
> *634* - Battle of Damascus
> *634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
> *634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
> *634* - Battle of Namaraq
> *634* - Battle of Saqatia.
> *635* - Battle of Bridge.
> *635* - Battle of Buwaib.
> *635* - Conquest of Damascus.
> *635* - Battle of Fahl.
> *636* - Battle of Yermuk.
> *636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
> *636* - Conquest of Madain.
> *637* - Battle of Jalula.
> *638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
> *638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
> *638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
> *639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
> *641* - Battle of Nihawand
> *642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
> *643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
> *644* - Conquest of Fars
> *644* - Conquest of Kharan.
> *644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
> *647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
> *644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
> *648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
> *651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
> *654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
> *656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
> *658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
> *659* - Conquest of Egypt
> *661* - Ali is murdered.
> *662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
> *666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
> *677* - Siege of Constantinople
> *687* - Battle of Kufa
> *691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
> *700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
> *700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
> *702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
> *711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
> *711* - Conquest of Spain
> *713* - Conquest of Multan
> *716* - Invasion of Constantinople
> *732* - Battle of Tours in France.
> *740* - Battle of the Nobles.
> *741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
> *744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
> *746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
> *748* - Battle of Rayy.
> *749* - Battle of lsfahan
> *749* - Battle of Nihawand
> *750* - Battle of Zab
> *772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
> *777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
> 
> 
> After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:
> 
> He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
> 
> He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.
> 
> Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)
> 
> Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?
> 
> Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.
> 
> Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.
> 
> Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.
> 
> That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.
Click to expand...


I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.



The legacy isn't the problem.  The actions of today are the problem.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Second - is there a difference, in your view, between deliberately targeting kids (example - the Itmar massacre or the Dumas massacre) and, kids being accidentally killed in a military action?



Yes and...

is there a responsibility for BOTH sides to protect children by ensuring they are removed from military targets?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.


Islamic terrorism is sourced in Islamic theology.  Thank you for acknowledging this.  



> Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...


NOT every religion has current problems with fundamental literalists committing widespread murder of innocents.  



> What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.


And what we are pointing out is that NOT ENOUGH Muslims are actively engaged in changing the dialogue and changing the interpretations let alone changing the actions of those who do agree with those theological interpretations.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.



Yuh uh.  Hence Hollie's point.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
Click to expand...


This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:

Target any non-combatants.
Target anything other than a military objective.
Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.


Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians were NOT attacked in 1948.  I know that it is an imperative that pro-Arab Palestinians believe that, but it simply is NOT even close to the truth.



			
				Pages 9 and 10 • Part One • Chapter 2: The Partition Plan and the end of the British Mandate •  The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
			
		

> *The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949*
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> SOURCE: *UN DPI 2499* •



In May 1948, Israeli Military Operations were justified in the following way.

1. In order to repel aggression, and as part of our essentially defensive plan, to prevent these areas being used as bases for attacks against the State of Israel.

2. In order to protect Jewish population, traffic and economic life, including the protection of those Jewish settlements outside the area of the State where, owing to the absence of any duly constituted authority and the failure to implement the guarantees and safeguards provided for, under the General Assembly Plan, life and property are in imminent danger. Similar considerations apply in the absence of any international statute for the City of Jerusalem to the Jewish area of the City.​No Israeli Forces entered any Arab sovereign territory as of the date of the first truce.

The only occupying force over the West Bank was Jordanian, which was not relinquished for fourty years.   The Gaza Strip was a military governorship, which was endorsed by former Arab Palestinian allies of the former Ottoman Empire and the former NAZI Regime.


P F Tinmore said:


> Civil society is pushing for the enforcement of the law which is not being done.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I always ask when this is brought to the forefront:  What particular actual law (or laws) are being cited?

This is one of those allegations that the pro-Arab Palestinians stumble over quite frequently.

✦  I would like to see a simple statement of charges; and the particular law (or laws) that is being claimed...​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does this imply, if not that the conflict duration is set by the Arab Palestinian condition that "Israel end the war?" This places the burden solely upon the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not want war. They were attacked by Israel in 1948 and those attacks have never stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT attacked in 1948.  I know that it is an imperative that pro-Arab Palestinians believe that, but it simply is NOT even close to the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pages 9 and 10 • Part One • Chapter 2: The Partition Plan and the end of the British Mandate •  The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949*
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> SOURCE: *UN DPI 2499* •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In May 1948, Israeli Military Operations were justified in the following way.
> 
> 1. In order to repel aggression, and as part of our essentially defensive plan, to prevent these areas being used as bases for attacks against the State of Israel.
> 
> 2. In order to protect Jewish population, traffic and economic life, including the protection of those Jewish settlements outside the area of the State where, owing to the absence of any duly constituted authority and the failure to implement the guarantees and safeguards provided for, under the General Assembly Plan, life and property are in imminent danger. Similar considerations apply in the absence of any international statute for the City of Jerusalem to the Jewish area of the City.​No Israeli Forces entered any Arab sovereign territory as of the date of the first truce.
> 
> The only occupying force over the West Bank was Jordanian, which was not relinquished for fourty years.   The Gaza Strip was a military governorship, which was endorsed by former Arab Palestinian allies of the former Ottoman Empire and the former NAZI Regime.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Civil society is pushing for the enforcement of the law which is not being done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, I always ask when this is brought to the forefront:  What particular actual law (or laws) are being cited?
> 
> This is one of those allegations that the pro-Arab Palestinians stumble over quite frequently.
> 
> ✦  I would like to see a simple statement of charges; and the particular law (or laws) that is being claimed...​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.​
The partition plan flopped and was never implemented. There was no territory allotted for a Jewish state.

What territory did Israel claim and how was it acquired?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m struck by your presumption that pious Moslems who commit acts of atrocities in furtherance of their religion are somehow doing so contrary to Islamic ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It becomes quite preposterous to assert that Moslem's ideology has nothing to do with Islamic terror. These are the books that are holy to Muslims--the Koran is literally interpreted to be God's own, uncreated word. These books provide the basis for Islamic shariah law. They constitute the fundamental "system for life" for each Moslem. More importantly though, they contain ample divine rationale for the murder and conquest of those who refuse to accept Islam's supremacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.
> 
> Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And beyond the books, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In scores of armed conflicts in the world today, Moslems are fighting for their God-given right to subjugate the infidels and to make Islam and God's law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, the worldwide plague of islamic terrorism is a function of a particular politico-religious ideology. When islamic terrorist superstars drench their threats to kill infidels with "god willing", I'm not conflicted by ambiguity or reservations about what is at stake. The current, globe-girdling crisis pits Islam against the better parts of the West. Those who want to see the two sides as morally equivalent routinely demand that we try to understand "what the Islamic militants want" and to appreciate "our own role in bringing such destruction upon us." In other words, we are required to see the components of the Islamic hive mind, which kills and enslaves, as individuals with the same sort of moral basis as our own: persons who would be capable, given certain preconditions, of treating *us* as moral equals, despite our divergences from Islam’s ideology. Well, hell. That's pretty silly. Can anyone show me one location in the islamist Middle East where infidels are accepted/treated as equals of Moslems? I don't have the moral compass that Moslems have regarding their absolutist distinction between Moslems and infidels, and I celebrate that.
> 
> Morality does carry with it, decision making and responsibility for those decisions. Convictions about morality (right and wrong) have never been uniform across all people and time, even within a single nation. Today, however, the very nature of right and wrong as absolutes not subject to one's opinion is under challenge from adherents to a politico-religious ideology that flies the flag of "submission" and demands "tolerance" of those with deviant moral convictions. The many ironies of this situation begin with that community's perfect willingness to *condemn and murder* anyone who differs with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.
> 
> Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.
> 
> Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.
> 
> I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.
> 
> This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.
> 
> A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"
> 
> 
> *610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
> *613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
> *615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
> *619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
> *620* - Institution of five daily prayers
> *622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
> *623* - Battle of Waddan
> *623* - Battle of Safwan
> *623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
> *624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
> *624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
> *624* - Battle of Badr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Salim
> *624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
> *624* - Battle of Sawiq
> *624* - Battle of Ghatfan
> *624* - Battle of Bahran
> *625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
> *625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
> *625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
> *625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
> *626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
> *626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
> *626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
> *627* - Battle of the Trench
> *627* - Battle of Ahzab
> *627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
> *627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
> *627* - Battle of Ghaiba
> *627* - Battle of Khaibar
> *628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
> *630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
> *630* - Battle of Hunsin.
> *630* - Battle of Tabuk
> *632* - Muhammad dies.
> *632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
> *633* - Battle at Oman
> *633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
> *633* - Battle of Kazima
> *633* - Battle of Walaja
> *633* - Battle of Ulleis
> *633* - Battle of Anbar
> *634* - Battle of Basra,
> *634* - Battle of Damascus
> *634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
> *634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
> *634* - Battle of Namaraq
> *634* - Battle of Saqatia.
> *635* - Battle of Bridge.
> *635* - Battle of Buwaib.
> *635* - Conquest of Damascus.
> *635* - Battle of Fahl.
> *636* - Battle of Yermuk.
> *636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
> *636* - Conquest of Madain.
> *637* - Battle of Jalula.
> *638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
> *638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
> *638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
> *639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
> *641* - Battle of Nihawand
> *642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
> *643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
> *644* - Conquest of Fars
> *644* - Conquest of Kharan.
> *644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
> *647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
> *644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
> *648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
> *651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
> *654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
> *656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
> *658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
> *659* - Conquest of Egypt
> *661* - Ali is murdered.
> *662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
> *666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
> *677* - Siege of Constantinople
> *687* - Battle of Kufa
> *691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
> *700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
> *700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
> *702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
> *711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
> *711* - Conquest of Spain
> *713* - Conquest of Multan
> *716* - Invasion of Constantinople
> *732* - Battle of Tours in France.
> *740* - Battle of the Nobles.
> *741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
> *744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
> *746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
> *748* - Battle of Rayy.
> *749* - Battle of lsfahan
> *749* - Battle of Nihawand
> *750* - Battle of Zab
> *772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
> *777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
> 
> 
> After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:
> 
> He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
> 
> He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.
> 
> Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)
> 
> Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?
> 
> Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.
> 
> Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.
> 
> Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.
> 
> That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
Click to expand...


I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities. 

I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit, of course.

Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
Click to expand...



Funny that a Pom Pom flailer for Islamic terrorists would want to lecture anyone on ethics.


----------



## Hollie

I have to believe it was an atrocious oversight not to include the 
_Great Satan_ ™️ among those responsible for the ills that plague a totalitarian Islamic fear society. 



Hamas blames Israel and Palestinian Authority for Gaza drug problem

The number of drug addicts in Gaza has reached approximately 150,000, according to reports. The main culprit according to Hamas, however, is Israel. 

The drugs typically come in through Egypt and other locations, rewarding smugglers with large profits. A doctor in the region defined the problem as "a threat to our people." Channel 13 has cited a number of reasons they've found that explain why so many young people turn to drugs: desperation, unemployment, the continued fighting with Israel, the lack of hope, the desire to dream and be somewhere else instead of a cold, complex and disappointing reality.


----------



## Hollie

A "dire situation" in the mini-caliphate of Haniyeh'istan seems a bit contrived. Luxury shopping malls in Gaza, Hamas being identified as the 2nd wealthiest islamic terrorist franchise and the neighboring Emir of Mahmoud'istan buying himself a 50 million dollar presidential jet suggests that Hamas has every interest in maintaining the status quo. 



Hamas delegation tells Erdogan of Gaza’s dire situation, Temple Mount ‘danger’

Hamas delegation led by its chief, Ismail Haniyeh, met Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Istanbul on Saturday and spoke to him about the dire humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip, the terror group said in a report posted on its official website.


----------



## Hollie

I know you will find this as shocking as I did. 
*


Hamas official: The goal is 'liberation of Palestine'*

Hamas official: The goal is 'liberation of Palestine'

Senior Hamas leader says the parliamentary and presidential elections are intended to strengthen the fight against Israel.




Yes. Shocking. The goal of a totalitarian politico-religious ideology is not primarily directed toward the betterment of its citizens and promoting their health, safety and security.

Rather, its reaffirming the politico-religious ideals that have remained unchanged since the 7th century.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The head of the student movement, Abd al-Rahman Alawi, says "Bir Zeit University, "which graduated the martyr engineer Yahya Ayyash and the prisoner Marwan Barghouti and dozens of martyrs and prisoners who had a clear imprint in the history of the Palestinian resistance, should be a source of uprisings and a political platform as it is now."

University officials say there are two reasons for the new rule, which had been discussed internally for years. One is the obvious - that pro-terror activity on campus is disruptive and against the values of the university. The other is that those activities give Israel an excuse to say that the university tolerates pro-terror activity.

Indeed, last week Israel arrested the president of the Student Council Conference at Birzeit University in Ramallah, Shatha Majid Hassan, at her home on December 5, along with a number of Hamas students that the IDF accused of gathering intelligence and preparing bombs for sabotage last Friday.

University officials insist that this anti-militarization rule has nothing to do with the arrests. In fact, the university forced all student blocs to sign a pledge not to engage in military-type demonstrations before the last student elections.

The other aspect of this story is that up until now, it has not been reported in any English-language media.

Yes, a major university closes its doors right before final exams, students are rioting, and there is complete silence on the story.

Bir Zeit University has some 14,000 students shut out from campus twice in a week and there is a near-total news blackout!

 Most major Palestinian Arabic media has been ignoring the story or only publishing bits and pieces about the university closing without discussing why. It has been covered more by the pan-Arab press than Palestinian media.

This shows yet again:

 - Palestinian media is not free to report on things that make Palestinian institutions look bad.

 - NGOs and international media are not interested in doing any work to expose internal Palestinian rifts and conflict.

- Narratives of Israeli evil and Palestinian innocence are more important than reporting the news honestly.

- The world gets a highly skewed idea of how things are in the most-reported part of the worldd.

- Most reporters on the ground in the Middle East are lazy and have no interest in reporting actual news on their own, or their editors kill any stories that don't fit the "narrative."

(full article online)

Palestinian university closes because students insist on openly supporting terrorism on campus. Where's the coverage? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Coyote

'];\


Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The legacy isn't the problem.  The actions of today are the problem.
Click to expand...



Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.

Example - child marriage is a serious problem in many parts of the world, one of the countries highest on the offending list is India (non Muslim) for example (I started a thread on it once but threads don't gain much traction if they don't have Jews or Muslims).  It is a problem in Guatemala, Nepal, Afghanistan etc etc.  The reasons for it are complicated ranging from economics, low valuation of girls, "business deals" between families.  It's culture more than a religion but it's a fight to change culture is some of these poor, rural regions.   The argument made that it's a "Muslim problem" deals with one Hadith that set Aisha's age as very young in a time (though that is not considered accurate)...when everyone married very young  The more educated and economically enfranchised a population is, the more they recognize there is more value in educating a girl rather than marrying her off as soon as possible - the more people oppose child marriage. It's not a Muslim problem per se - it's a larger issue that should not be ignored and it's complicated to fix.  But what do we see?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yuh uh.  Hence Hollie's point.
Click to expand...


Hollie's point is to smear all Muslims with the behavior of extremists.  She is quite clear on that and note - she does not deny it.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm struck by your simplistic understanding of Islam for someone who has claimed such vaunted knowledge.
> 
> I won't say Islamic terrorism has *nothing* to do with theology.  In fact I didn't. Every religion has it's problems with fundamentalist literalists...at this point in time...Islam is in primacy in that regard.  What I pointed out was a lot of Muslims do NOT agree with those theological interpretations.
> 
> Those books also contain the rationale for charity, for humane treatment of the enemy, they also specify when it is ok to engage in war and a whole lot of stuff that escapes your limited research.  Unfortunately there are Muslims who also don't grasp that.  As Ghandi once said...it's not your Christ I have a problem with it's your Christians (more or less) - you can say the same about Muslims.  Mohammed (assuming you actually did read historical bio's on him) was ahead of his time in the treatment of women, orphans, charity, opposition to the corruption of the religious elite at the time, taking care of the poor...something lost on some of his subsequent followers.  All these things should be viewed in the context of the era in which they existed.  Unfortunately there are those who seek to recreate that era.
> 
> And right there...I question your accuracy.  Many conflicts are not about "subjugating" infidels but about sepratist movements (such as Chechnya) or ethnic conflicts (as is occurring in CAR with atrocities on both sides) or simple survival (the Rohinga in Myanmar).
> 
> The very nature of right and wrong is under challenge alright.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.
> 
> Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.
> 
> Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.
> 
> I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.
> 
> This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.
> 
> A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"
> 
> 
> *610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
> *613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
> *615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
> *619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
> *620* - Institution of five daily prayers
> *622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
> *623* - Battle of Waddan
> *623* - Battle of Safwan
> *623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
> *624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
> *624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
> *624* - Battle of Badr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Salim
> *624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
> *624* - Battle of Sawiq
> *624* - Battle of Ghatfan
> *624* - Battle of Bahran
> *625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
> *625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
> *625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
> *625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
> *626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
> *626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
> *626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
> *627* - Battle of the Trench
> *627* - Battle of Ahzab
> *627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
> *627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
> *627* - Battle of Ghaiba
> *627* - Battle of Khaibar
> *628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
> *630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
> *630* - Battle of Hunsin.
> *630* - Battle of Tabuk
> *632* - Muhammad dies.
> *632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
> *633* - Battle at Oman
> *633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
> *633* - Battle of Kazima
> *633* - Battle of Walaja
> *633* - Battle of Ulleis
> *633* - Battle of Anbar
> *634* - Battle of Basra,
> *634* - Battle of Damascus
> *634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
> *634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
> *634* - Battle of Namaraq
> *634* - Battle of Saqatia.
> *635* - Battle of Bridge.
> *635* - Battle of Buwaib.
> *635* - Conquest of Damascus.
> *635* - Battle of Fahl.
> *636* - Battle of Yermuk.
> *636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
> *636* - Conquest of Madain.
> *637* - Battle of Jalula.
> *638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
> *638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
> *638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
> *639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
> *641* - Battle of Nihawand
> *642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
> *643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
> *644* - Conquest of Fars
> *644* - Conquest of Kharan.
> *644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
> *647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
> *644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
> *648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
> *651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
> *654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
> *656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
> *658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
> *659* - Conquest of Egypt
> *661* - Ali is murdered.
> *662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
> *666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
> *677* - Siege of Constantinople
> *687* - Battle of Kufa
> *691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
> *700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
> *700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
> *702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
> *711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
> *711* - Conquest of Spain
> *713* - Conquest of Multan
> *716* - Invasion of Constantinople
> *732* - Battle of Tours in France.
> *740* - Battle of the Nobles.
> *741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
> *744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
> *746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
> *748* - Battle of Rayy.
> *749* - Battle of lsfahan
> *749* - Battle of Nihawand
> *750* - Battle of Zab
> *772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
> *777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
> 
> 
> After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:
> 
> He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
> 
> He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.
> 
> Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)
> 
> Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?
> 
> Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.
> 
> Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.
> 
> Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.
> 
> That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.
> 
> I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.
Click to expand...



How about some actual numbers?  In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.  How many are involved in atrocities?  How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based?  Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole?  Hate mongering maybe?

Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok?  Reveal your sources.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yuh uh.  Hence Hollie's point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hollie's point is to smear all Muslims with the behavior of extremists.  She is quite clear on that and note - she does not deny it.
Click to expand...


Writing in the third person of course, Hollie has never stated a goal to smear all Moslems with the behavior of "extremists". 

Hollie has stated on several occasions that the "extremist" label is unfounded when Moslems are behaving in strict accord with islam, (in the way of Islam's "prophet" as an example of behavior for all Moslems for all time), as delineated in the Koran, hadith and  Sunnah. That would make them pious Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not at all surprised by your apologetics for a brutish, retfogtade politico-religious ideology. My understanding of islam is based upon islamic theology and history.
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.
> 
> Examine the very worst atrocities taking place in the world today; Darfur, Iraq, India, Phillipines, Europoe, Africa etc., and you'll find the orthodox muslim doctrine of world domination playing a part.
> 
> Your position is of an apologist and ill-informed. Your posted comments represent a system of formed opinions on what you think or do not think about matters, though you require of yourself far less evidence than you require of others for their positions - that is, you are being dismissive to claims that Islamic terrorism is a worldwide threat to the free world.
> 
> I’m also concerned about the rights of the general public to be protected from Islamic terrorism. As much as you may wish to avoid having to address it, Islamic terrorism is a clear and present threat to the Western world and others.
> 
> This madness of calculated mass murder is not happening in the cause of any other faith on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's jihad and it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of Arab/Muslim governments, sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person consider that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.
> 
> A sensible and reasoned person cannot sweep away the reality that if Muslims are genuinely concerned about "rights", (the very rights that Muslims demand for themselves but explicitly deny others), over the continuing incidents of mass murder in Allah’s name, then it falls to them to set forth, unequivocally, that reform to their ideology must be undertaken.
> 
> 
> 
> To suggest that an Arad warlord was “ahead of his time” is comical. Your hero has quite a history of being "ahead of his time"
> 
> 
> *610* - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
> *613* - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
> *615* - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
> *619* - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
> *620* - Institution of five daily prayers
> *622* - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.
> *623* - Battle of Waddan
> *623* - Battle of Safwan
> *623* - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
> *624* - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
> *624* - Zakat becomes mandatory
> *624* - Battle of Badr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Salim
> *624* - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
> *624* - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
> *624* - Battle of Sawiq
> *624* - Battle of Ghatfan
> *624* - Battle of Bahran
> *625* - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
> *625* - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
> *625* - Battle of Banu Nudair
> *625* - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
> *626* - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
> *626* - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
> *626* - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
> *627* - Battle of the Trench
> *627* - Battle of Ahzab
> *627* - Battle of Bani Quraiza
> *627* - Battle of Bani Lahyan
> *627* - Battle of Ghaiba
> *627* - Battle of Khaibar
> *628* - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
> *630* - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
> *630* - Battle of Hunsin.
> *630* - Battle of Tabuk
> *632* - Muhammad dies.
> *632* - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
> *633* - Battle at Oman
> *633* - Battle at Hadramaut.
> *633* - Battle of Kazima
> *633* - Battle of Walaja
> *633* - Battle of Ulleis
> *633* - Battle of Anbar
> *634* - Battle of Basra,
> *634* - Battle of Damascus
> *634* - Battle of Ajnadin.
> *634* - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
> *634* - Battle of Namaraq
> *634* - Battle of Saqatia.
> *635* - Battle of Bridge.
> *635* - Battle of Buwaib.
> *635* - Conquest of Damascus.
> *635* - Battle of Fahl.
> *636* - Battle of Yermuk.
> *636* - Battle of Qadsiyia.
> *636* - Conquest of Madain.
> *637* - Battle of Jalula.
> *638* - Battle of Yarmouk.
> *638* - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
> *638* - Conquest of Jazirah.
> *639* - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
> *641* - Battle of Nihawand
> *642* - Battle of Rayy in Persia
> *643* - Conquest of Azarbaijan
> *644* - Conquest of Fars
> *644* - Conquest of Kharan.
> *644* - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
> *647* - Conquest of the island of Cypress
> *644* - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
> *648* - Campaign against the Byzantines.
> *651* - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
> *654* - Islam spreads into North Africa
> *656* - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
> *658* - Battle of Nahrawan.
> *659* - Conquest of Egypt
> *661* - Ali is murdered.
> *662* - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
> *666* - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
> *677* - Siege of Constantinople
> *687* - Battle of Kufa
> *691* - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
> *700* - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
> *700* - Military campaigns in North Africa
> *702* - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
> *711* - Muslims invade Gibraltar
> *711* - Conquest of Spain
> *713* - Conquest of Multan
> *716* - Invasion of Constantinople
> *732* - Battle of Tours in France.
> *740* - Battle of the Nobles.
> *741* - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
> *744* - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
> *746* - Battle of Rupar Thutha
> *748* - Battle of Rayy.
> *749* - Battle of lsfahan
> *749* - Battle of Nihawand
> *750* - Battle of Zab
> *772* - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
> *777* - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
> 
> 
> After their surrender at the "Battle of the Trench" (see date above),  600-900 men were beheaded in the marketplace of Medina over trenches dug there. The women (who weren't taken as concubines) and children were sold into slavery. Some were sold to buy horses and weapons. This is recorded in the Koran  two verses2:
> 
> He [_God —ed._] brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them [_i.e., the Banu Qurayza Jews who had supported the Banu Quraysh Arabs —ed._] from among the People of the Book [_Jews —ed._] and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
> 
> He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and of yet another land [_Khaybar—another conquest over a Jewish community in Arabia —ed._] on which you had never set foot before. Truly, God has power over all things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.
> 
> Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)
> 
> Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?
> 
> Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.
> 
> Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.
> 
> Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.
> 
> That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.
> 
> I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about some actual numbers?  In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.  How many are involved in atrocities?  How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based?  Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole?  Hate mongering maybe?
> 
> Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok?  Reveal your sources.
Click to expand...


Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?

How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree - it is wrong to kill children.
> 
> Can we agree it is unequivocally wrong to TARGET and KILL Palestinian children AND Jewish children?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
Click to expand...



Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I can agree.
> 
> Now can we dump the double standard?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.
Click to expand...

That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.
Click to expand...


*settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school. *


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> '];\
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The legacy isn't the problem.  The actions of today are the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.

I tend to look at polls.  You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children.  That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism.  It's 1.5 million people.  

I also look at facts.  Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology.  Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada.  Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong. 

All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.  

I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.  

Another analogy:  Not all men are rapists.  Nearly all rapists are men.  And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just look at the number of dead and establish the standard.  The standard is not the number of dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.
Click to expand...



Yes, you've tried to spoon up that nonsense before.  Weasel law so you feel good about murdering Israeli children.


----------



## Hollie

No way yet to know if this is true. That it’s reported on “Sputnik news” makes me cautious. 

Further along in the article, it’s noted: “Hamas will be fully disarmed, but its members will receive monthly salaries.”

I’m not convinced that Hamas would agree to such a condition, but time will tell. Ultimately, I just don’t see Hamas giving up their weapons and losing ialamo street cred by doing so. 


‘New Palestine’ to Emerge As a Result of Agreement Between Israel, Hamas, PLO - Report

DAMASCUS (Sputnik) – A "New Palestine" state is planned under a new deal, which will stipulate Palestine paying Israel for protection against international aggression, the Lebanese Al Mayadeen TV channel reported.

According to documents allegedly obtained by Al Mayadeen on Monday, a trilateral agreement is planned to be signed between Israel, Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

Under the deal, a new state named "New Palestine" will be created in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, except for the territories already occupied by Israel. Jerusalem will be shared by Israel and "New Palestine".


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> '];\
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The legacy isn't the problem.  The actions of today are the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.
> 
> I tend to look at polls.  You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children.  That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism.  It's 1.5 million people.
> 
> I also look at facts.  Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology.  Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada.  Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.
> 
> All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.
> 
> I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.
> 
> Another analogy:  Not all men are rapists.  Nearly all rapists are men.  And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.
Click to expand...


I disagree that there Islam is unique in this - and history provides many examples of the same behavior in other religions.  It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In many ways it's in WHO is targeted.
> 
> When Israel reacts in self defense to rockets launched across the border - Israel tries to avoid targeting children.
> 
> I would also say when Hamas launches rockets, it is not targeting children, it targets randomly.
> 
> But when someone creeps into a house and slits the throats of an entire family...there is no question about the target.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school. *
> 
> 
> Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?
Click to expand...

I was paraphrasing. The description said nationals of an occupying power. So...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't actually complicated.  Standards are pretty clear.  It is morally wrong and illegal to:
> 
> Target any non-combatants.
> Target anything other than a military objective.
> Fail to target at all by committing violence indiscriminately.
> Place military objectives in the vicinity of non-combatant civilians.
> Fail to remove civilians from the vicinity of military targets.
> 
> 
> Israel is guilty of none of these things.  Arab Palestinians are guilty of all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school. *
> 
> 
> Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was paraphrasing. The description said nationals of an occupying power. So...
Click to expand...


So answer the question.....Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> '];\
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The legacy isn't the problem.  The actions of today are the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.
> 
> I tend to look at polls.  You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children.  That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism.  It's 1.5 million people.
> 
> I also look at facts.  Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology.  Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada.  Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.
> 
> All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.
> 
> I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.
> 
> Another analogy:  Not all men are rapists.  Nearly all rapists are men.  And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.
Click to expand...



I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza.  And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

I've heard it stated this way:  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".

And it is inaccurate at best, *demonizing at worst. *

According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.

I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom.  Feel free to participate.


----------



## Coyote

lkpj


Hollie said:


> No way yet to know if this is true. That it’s reported on “Sputnik news” makes me cautious.
> 
> Further along in the article, it’s noted: “Hamas will be fully disarmed, but its members will receive monthly salaries.”
> 
> I’m not convinced that Hamas would agree to such a condition, but time will tell. Ultimately, I just don’t see Hamas giving up their weapons and losing ialamo street cred by doing so.
> 
> 
> ‘New Palestine’ to Emerge As a Result of Agreement Between Israel, Hamas, PLO - Report
> 
> DAMASCUS (Sputnik) – A "New Palestine" state is planned under a new deal, which will stipulate Palestine paying Israel for protection against international aggression, the Lebanese Al Mayadeen TV channel reported.
> 
> According to documents allegedly obtained by Al Mayadeen on Monday, a trilateral agreement is planned to be signed between Israel, Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).
> 
> Under the deal, a new state named "New Palestine" will be created in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, except for the territories already occupied by Israel. Jerusalem will be shared by Israel and "New Palestine".



That sounds rather bizarre - I can't see either side going for it.  Intriguing though.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> Israeli liar gets his ass handed to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Did you watch your own video?  Your friend Noura admitted that Hamas violates international legal standards.  Not to mention moral ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a common misconception. I am sure that they do not mention that settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *settlers are not protected persons (civilians) by the IV Geneva Conventions in law school. *
> 
> 
> Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was paraphrasing. The description said nationals of an occupying power. So...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So answer the question.....Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?
Click to expand...


According to Tinmore, Israel proper is also "occupied territory."  So little Shay, sleeping in his crib in Tel-Aviv, is also fair game to have his throat slit.


----------



## MJB12741

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> '];\
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The legacy isn't the problem.  The actions of today are the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but I also think there is a lot of dishonest media on the actions of today that make it seem as if most Muslims support or engage in terrorism, rape, and pedophilia and these drive persistent memes that people keep promoting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm not going to buy into the idea that the problem is dishonest media.
> 
> I tend to look at polls.  You know, like the one which showed that 80% of Gazans support planting bombs to blow up Israeli children.  That is MOST Muslims (of that group) supporting terrorism.  It's 1.5 million people.
> 
> I also look at facts.  Like 110 Islamic attacks in 19 different countries with 623 dead and 555 injured in the last 30 days alone. By "Islamic attacks" I mean attacks where the motivation for the attack is rooted in Islamic religious ideology.  Like murdering eight bus passengers because they were Christian and refused to recite the Shahada.  Or bombing a rival mosque because they are doing Islam wrong.
> 
> All things being equal then, we should expect to see about 140 Xtian attacks in the same time frame of the past 30 days.
> 
> I also look at the lives of people living in Islamic countries, particularly women, and compare the laws in those countries with other countries as a way of understanding what is considered normative vs. extremist.
> 
> Another analogy:  Not all men are rapists.  Nearly all rapists are men.  And the argument is that there is a cultural reason for this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza.  And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.
> 
> Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
> 
> I've heard it stated this way:  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".
> 
> And it is inaccurate at best, *demonizing at worst. *
> 
> According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.
> 
> I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom.  Feel free to participate.
Click to expand...


Correct.  Most Muslims are not terrorists.  My son & I belong to an interfaith organization promoting love, peace & understanding.  We have some dear Muslim friends & were present at a dedication to their new Mosque.  However, let us all consider documented facts as to who are the worlds predominant terrorists & their religions.  

The World's 10 Richest Terrorist Organizations


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza.  And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.


Yes, I've read quite a few polls, and not just ones on Gaza.  The Gaza number was pulled from a much more comprehensive set of polls.

Would you please acknowledge the "disturbing".



> I've heard it stated this way:  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".
> 
> And it is inaccurate at best, *demonizing at worst.*


Inaccurate?  Demonizing?  The top four terrorist organizations in the world for number of deaths caused are related to Islam.  Eight of the top ten richest terrorist organizations in the world are related to Islam.  The top countries for terrorist acts are related to Islam.  Terrorism in the name of Islam is a big problem in the world.  You can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Do you have the figures for a different religion?  For comparisons sake?



> According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.


Its the US.  You might want to think about how the culture of Islam is different in the US and why.  (Also, I've read those reports and interestingly, as a percentage of population, its a different story).



> I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom.  Feel free to participate.


I disagree.  Understanding how Islam influences the I/P conflict is important.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.



THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza.  And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I've read quite a few polls, and not just ones on Gaza.  The Gaza number was pulled from a much more comprehensive set of polls.
> 
> Would you please acknowledge the "disturbing".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard it stated this way:  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".
> 
> And it is inaccurate at best, *demonizing at worst.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inaccurate?  Demonizing?  The top four terrorist organizations in the world for number of deaths caused are related to Islam.  Eight of the top ten richest terrorist organizations in the world are related to Islam.  The top countries for terrorist acts are related to Islam.  Terrorism in the name of Islam is a big problem in the world.  You can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.
> 
> Do you have the figures for a different religion?  For comparisons sake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its the US.  You might want to think about how the culture of Islam is different in the US and why.  (Also, I've read those reports and interestingly, as a percentage of population, its a different story).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom.  Feel free to participate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree.  Understanding how Islam influences the I/P conflict is important.
Click to expand...


Judaism also influences the I/P conflict, since many Jews feel that all of Eretz Yisrael is our G-d given land, and therefore it's forbidden to give up any part of it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
Click to expand...


First you incite to murder,
then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.

Palestinian mentality


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.
> 
> How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.
> 
> Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
> Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off,
> while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.
> 
> This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".
> 
> In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B.S.  And I mean TOTAL B.S,  this assumption that Palestinian kids couldn't possibly have gone through what these Jewish kids CLAIM to have gone through is so laughable...in fact, it's a total farce.
> 
> First:  did Shin Bet use torture?
> 
> If YES - then YES - it is wrong.
> 
> Do we agree on that point?
> 
> If torture WAS used...then, there is the uncomfortable question.  And - maybe this addresses your preconceived notions on Palestinians?
> 
> If torture was used...well shouldn't the SAME STANDARD be applied to Palestinian suspects who's confessions were coerced at the hands of the Shin Bet?  Or does that only apply to Jewish kids?
> 
> Personally - I disapprove of torture all around.  Period.  NO exceptions.
> 
> How about you?
Click to expand...


How can we agree on anything when I deal with facts which you have no respect for whatsoever, while you solely rely on assumptions and claims?

If you had any facts to contradict anything I said, instead of constantly deflecting,
they'd already be presented.

But you have nothing aside from sensationalist media headlines,
and stories paid for by foreign governments, that in spite serving your agenda are not enough to even stand in court.

I just know too much from what's actually going on the ground,
while seeing enough of your posting to realize that you're just another lousy enemy of both your country and my people, pathologically incapable of telling truth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First you incite to murder,
> then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.
> 
> Palestinian mentality
Click to expand...

Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First you incite to murder,
> then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.
> 
> Palestinian mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.
Click to expand...

Since when laws against racism and incitement to murder are bullshit?

These same laws exist in civilized nations for decades,
to protect a wide range of minorities from racist bigots like yourself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First you incite to murder,
> then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.
> 
> Palestinian mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when laws against racism and incitement to murder are bullshit?
> 
> These same laws exist in civilized nations for decades,
> to protect a wide range of minorities from racist bigots like yourself.
> 
> That the Jihadi brides like yourself whine so much, merely shows the head on which that hat is burning, and really is music to my ears.
Click to expand...

Israel's lackeys go to the government, shovel shit, and pass out some money. Then they get useless laws.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First you incite to murder,
> then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.
> 
> Palestinian mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when laws against racism and incitement to murder are bullshit?
> 
> These same laws exist in civilized nations for decades,
> to protect a wide range of minorities from racist bigots like yourself.
> 
> That the Jihadi brides like yourself whine so much, merely shows the head on which that hat is burning, and really is music to my ears.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's lackeys go to the government, shovel shit, and pass out some money. Then they get useless laws.
Click to expand...

Jihadi shills whining so much about these laws, 
merely shows the head on which that hat is burning.

Go on that's music to my ears...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First you incite to murder,
> then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.
> 
> Palestinian mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when laws against racism and incitement to murder are bullshit?
> 
> These same laws exist in civilized nations for decades,
> to protect a wide range of minorities from racist bigots like yourself.
> 
> That the Jihadi brides like yourself whine so much, merely shows the head on which that hat is burning, and really is music to my ears.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's lackeys go to the government, shovel shit, and pass out some money. Then they get useless laws.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## toomuchtime_

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look at polls also - Pew is very comprehensive, rather than looking just at Gaza.  And it offers far more depth - good and bad, hopeful and disturbing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I've read quite a few polls, and not just ones on Gaza.  The Gaza number was pulled from a much more comprehensive set of polls.
> 
> Would you please acknowledge the "disturbing".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard it stated this way:  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Nearly all terrorists are Muslim".
> 
> And it is inaccurate at best, *demonizing at worst.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inaccurate?  Demonizing?  The top four terrorist organizations in the world for number of deaths caused are related to Islam.  Eight of the top ten richest terrorist organizations in the world are related to Islam.  The top countries for terrorist acts are related to Islam.  Terrorism in the name of Islam is a big problem in the world.  You can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.
> 
> Do you have the figures for a different religion?  For comparisons sake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to an FBI analysis of every terrorist attack carried out int he US between 1980 and 2005, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out by someone who was not Muslim. Granted that is the US only, but if "nearly all terrorists are Muslim I'd expect to see a higher representation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its the US.  You might want to think about how the culture of Islam is different in the US and why.  (Also, I've read those reports and interestingly, as a percentage of population, its a different story).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't go any further on this - it's really not IP, but there is a thread I started some time back on decline of religious freedom.  Feel free to participate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree.  Understanding how Islam influences the I/P conflict is important.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Judaism also influences the I/P conflict, since many Jews feel that all of Eretz Yisrael is our G-d given land, and therefore it's forbidden to give up any part of it.
Click to expand...

Some Israelis may feel that way but there is no evidence these feelings have influenced Israeli policy.  In 1948, Israelis settled for the two little scraps of land the UN offered instead of the state they wanted and in the 1990's Israel offered to give up 95% of the territories for peace.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
Click to expand...

But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.
> 
> How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.
> 
> Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
> Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off,
> while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.
> 
> This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".
> 
> In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B.S.  And I mean TOTAL B.S,  this assumption that Palestinian kids couldn't possibly have gone through what these Jewish kids CLAIM to have gone through is so laughable...in fact, it's a total farce.
> 
> First:  did Shin Bet use torture?
> 
> If YES - then YES - it is wrong.
> 
> Do we agree on that point?
> 
> If torture WAS used...then, there is the uncomfortable question.  And - maybe this addresses your preconceived notions on Palestinians?
> 
> If torture was used...well shouldn't the SAME STANDARD be applied to Palestinian suspects who's confessions were coerced at the hands of the Shin Bet?  Or does that only apply to Jewish kids?
> 
> Personally - I disapprove of torture all around.  Period.  NO exceptions.
> 
> How about you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can we agree on anything when I deal with facts which you have no respect for whatsoever, while you solely rely on assumptions and claims?
> 
> If you had any facts to contradict anything I said, instead of constantly deflecting,
> they'd already be presented.
> 
> But you have nothing aside from sensationalist media headlines,
> and stories paid for by foreign governments, that in spite serving your agenda are not enough to even stand in court.
> 
> I just know too much from what's actually going on the ground,
> while seeing enough of your posting to realize that you're just another lousy enemy of both your country and my people, pathologically incapable of telling truth.
Click to expand...

Everyone views events through their own bias.  You have been quite clear in that.

An enemy of my own country? Where do you even come up with that crap?

Good day.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is interesting is that the court rejects confessions made under “torture” ... but that doesn’t apply to confessions made under “torture” by Palestinian youth.
> 
> How many of those confessions would be thrown out if they were afforded the same protections and justice as the Dumas attackers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestinian youth goes through what these Jews went through, and actually present this as defense in court, rather than just telling stories for the media, then you can judge the courts behavior or prejudice. And they do have the same support both in the Knesset and with the armies of attorneys and NGO's for every case. If there was something there would already be a case in the court.
> 
> Meantime you're trying to hold the stick by both its ends.
> Implying that it's not just that not all confessions under torture are held off,
> while at the same time insisting on using such a confession to accuse Jews when it fits your preconceived notions.
> 
> This sounds awfully similar to one of Rashida Tlaib's latest gems of wisdom: "Analysts need to be African Americans, not people that are not".
> 
> In other words, you guys have to decide - are you against racism or do you use it to further promote a racist agenda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B.S.  And I mean TOTAL B.S,  this assumption that Palestinian kids couldn't possibly have gone through what these Jewish kids CLAIM to have gone through is so laughable...in fact, it's a total farce.
> 
> First:  did Shin Bet use torture?
> 
> If YES - then YES - it is wrong.
> 
> Do we agree on that point?
> 
> If torture WAS used...then, there is the uncomfortable question.  And - maybe this addresses your preconceived notions on Palestinians?
> 
> If torture was used...well shouldn't the SAME STANDARD be applied to Palestinian suspects who's confessions were coerced at the hands of the Shin Bet?  Or does that only apply to Jewish kids?
> 
> Personally - I disapprove of torture all around.  Period.  NO exceptions.
> 
> How about you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can we agree on anything when I deal with facts which you have no respect for whatsoever, while you solely rely on assumptions and claims?
> 
> If you had any facts to contradict anything I said, instead of constantly deflecting,
> they'd already be presented.
> 
> But you have nothing aside from sensationalist media headlines,
> and stories paid for by foreign governments, that in spite serving your agenda are not enough to even stand in court.
> 
> I just know too much from what's actually going on the ground,
> while seeing enough of your posting to realize that you're just another lousy enemy of both your country and my people, pathologically incapable of telling truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone views events through their own bias.  You have been quite clear in that.
> 
> An enemy of my own country? Where do you even come up with that crap?
> 
> Good day.
Click to expand...


Maybe you're incapable of dealing with facts.

But if you want to examine our biases let's see - my bias is natural, in favor of my country and my people, while your bias is sticking the nose into other people's business,  while obsessively demonizing and knowingly lying about a tiny minority, even in conversations that have nothing to do with them.

Where do I get that you're the enemy of the US?
From always siding with its proclaimed enemies:


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use a broad brush. There are a few bad apples in everybody's barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "few bad apples"?!
> 
> 80% of the people of Gaza support planting IEDS to kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> That is not a "few bad apples".  That is a culture of violence and dehumanization and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kill innocent Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First you incite to murder,
> then whine when racist BDS-holes are banned by law.
> 
> Palestinian mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then those laws bite the dust in the courts because they are based on bullshit.
Click to expand...


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
Click to expand...


Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of _Jesus is great_.

So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
Click to expand...


People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)

People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.


And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)
> 
> People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.
> 
> 
> And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.
Click to expand...


True.  When Christians burned innocent women alive as witches, that was pure evil.  But that doesn't affect us now.  Islam does affect us now.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)
> 
> People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.
> 
> 
> And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.
Click to expand...


I would propose that the only external example of Islam we have is Moslems. Therefore, I don't believe it is unfair to come to conclusions about the ideology based upon the actions of the adherents.

During the course of our daily existence, we all make judgements about the people and events that affect us. With regard to reaching  conclusions about political and religious ideologies, I do make judgments. I make both assessments and judgements about the internal components and consistencies of the ideology because those ideologies and beliefs have an external result that affects many. I do judge because it's a necessary aspect of how we view the world and our place in it. Judgements are required in order to evaluate how to proceed with both things and people.

My judgement is that proceeding through life with the belief that a 7th century Arab warlord is the model of behavior for all of humanity is retrograde and harmful to me and those around me.


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)
> 
> People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.
> 
> 
> And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True.  When Christians burned innocent women alive as witches, that was pure evil.  But that doesn't affect us now.  Islam does affect us now.
Click to expand...



Yes, and...since Xtian ideology hasn't changed as much as it could, the tide could roll back in.  Witness the increase in attacks on Jews in America, and the rise and increased brazeness of Nazism and white supremecist groups.  (Jews are the only group which, collectively, gets to be white and not-white at the same time).


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)
> 
> People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.
> 
> 
> And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True.  When Christians burned innocent women alive as witches, that was pure evil.  But that doesn't affect us now.  Islam does affect us now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and...since Xtian ideology hasn't changed as much as it could, the tide could roll back in.  Witness the increase in attacks on Jews in America, and the rise and increased brazeness of Nazism and white supremecist groups.  (Jews are the only group which, collectively, gets to be white and not-white at the same time).
Click to expand...


Nazism isn't Christianity.  Hitler only used Christianity when it suited his cause.  There's evidence that he thought of Christianity as a weak religion, and many priests and nuns suffered during the Holocaust.


----------



## rylah

“Islamized Germans”


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> 
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)
> 
> People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.
> 
> 
> And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True.  When Christians burned innocent women alive as witches, that was pure evil.  But that doesn't affect us now.  Islam does affect us now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and...since Xtian ideology hasn't changed as much as it could, the tide could roll back in.  Witness the increase in attacks on Jews in America, and the rise and increased brazeness of Nazism and white supremecist groups.  (Jews are the only group which, collectively, gets to be white and not-white at the same time).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nazism isn't Christianity.  Hitler only used Christianity when it suited his cause.  There's evidence that he thought of Christianity as a weak religion, and many priests and nuns suffered during the Holocaust.
Click to expand...


Its not divorced from Xtianity.  There is underlying ideology there which lends itself, imo.  Its not just Hitler, but all those who follow.

Have you ever read Constantine's Sword?


----------



## Shusha

Although, please note, I am not trying to equate Xtianity with Nazis as though they are one and the same.  I'm just trying to point out that some Xtian ideology is suited to extremism.


----------



## Hollie

The _Peaceful Inner Struggle_™️


*IDF Thwarts Attempt by Palestinian Terrorist to Enter Southern Israel From Hamas-Ruled Gaza*

IDF Thwarts Attempt by Palestinian Terrorist to Enter Southern Israel From Hamas-Ruled Gaza







A Palestinian terrorist attempted to enter southern Israel from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, Dec. 17, 2019. Photo: Screenshot.

In the first incident of its kind in some time, an attempted infiltration of southern Israel by a terrorist from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip was thwarted by the IDF on Tuesday.




Gee-had denied.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People aren’t labelling Islam as uniquely evil. I’m certainly not. (Remember, I also think there are tenets of Xtianity which are vile.)
> 
> People are arguing Islam is doing it NOW. You agree.
> 
> 
> And....since I responded before reading Hollies post....well okay uniquely evil it is. She has a point. Though I wouldn’t argue uniquely evil so much as a unique ideology of evil which leads to a unique practice of evil.
Click to expand...


So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil"  with a "unique practice of evil"?

What is unique?

You can't examine world religions in a historical vacuum and claim "uniqueness".

Treatment of women - is Islam uniquely evil in how women are treated?

Hinduism:

-------------------------------
Women

Unclean and dying because of it

Banished for menstruating: the Indian women isolated while they bleed | Gagandeep Kaur

Menstrual Huts Are Illegal In Nepal. So Why Are Women Still Dying In Them?

Child marriages - even though technically illegal they are still prevalent (in Shravasti, at least a quarter of girls age 10 to 17 are married)

84% Of 12 Million Married Children Under 10 Are Hindus

According to Hindu scriptures from 400 to 100 bc - the best age for a girl to get married is between is 8 and 10.

While the British made Sati illegal, the treatment of widows in Hinduism is abysmal: The ongoing tragedy of India’s widows - Women’s Media Center

There is a lot more but it's clear that when it comes to women, Islam is not a "uniquely evil" ideology and this is not even historical, this is now.

------------------

Violence

Right now, the most common terrorism around the world is I think Islamic extremism.  Is it uniquely evil and is it Islamic?

We have several millenniums of documented history on religious violence and excess in addition to Islam's.

Christian conquests and forceable coversions, both ancient and relatively modern in how Native American's were treated.  The way Jews and Muslims were treated in Christian majority nations.  The years and years of sectarian strife between Catholics and Protestants and all it's associated terrorism, culminating in the the Irish Troubles.  And, let's not forget the rich trove of biblical scripture in support of a lot of nasty behavior.

Let's jump to today.

What has been happening in India?  Oh...the rise of religious nationalism and identity (this usually bodes really bad for minorities):
Hinduism and Terror - by Paul Marshall

Or what the "peaceful" Bhuddist Nationalists are doing in Myanmar (despite the popular misconception that Buddhism was all about peace, that religion had it's warrior monks, just as Christianity had it's Doctrine Just War etc etc).
Myanmar's military accused of genocide in damning UN report

Forceable conversions and intolerance of minority religions?
Yup, that is a problem in may Muslim majority nations.  But...it's a problem in Myanmar and India as well, just off the top of my head.  Probably other areas too.  Where it tends not to be a problem are nations with secular governments and a strong protection and tolerance of minorities.  Again...not unique.

FGM?  A horrible practice, still perpetrated that predated Islam in N. Africa and in the regions there where it is practiced, it is by all the groups regardless of religion.  Quran makes no mention of it, nor for that matter does it demand women wear clothing resembling large black trash bags from head to toe.

So how is Islam a uniquely evil ideology then?  What uniquely evil things has it done?

I could go on but once you start labeling an entire multi-cultural world religion as an "uniquely evil ideology" you come suspiciously close to demonizing.  When you look at religious extremism - it almost always resembles other religious extremists rather than the moderate forms of it's own religion.

So that leads me to a question: *Instead of labeling cultures and religions as "uniquely evil" shouldn't we be asking instead - why is there so much violence coming out of the Islamic world now?  AND how do people feel about it?  AND what can they do about it?*

Maybe a starting point is - what are people's concerns regarding violence extremism? concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east


If it was the culture - it wouldn't be a 20th century phenomenon. It would be continuous and unrelenting. But it isn't. So maybe there is more to it then simply religion - religion is the vehicle covering over other problems.



And this is why I did not think this discussion is suited for a thread in IP.  We (mods) usually cut off digressions into Jews around the world and Muslims around the world type of stuff, to try to keep it somewhat focused on IP.

I would honestly like to take it up with you in the "Bull Ring" - a defined topic, with just you and I discussing it.  Then when we are done, and agree, disagree, agree to disagree - it's open to the peanut gallery.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know something Hollie...when you are going to on mass cut'n'paste (hey...don't you ding Tinmore for that...?) you ought to link to your sources...and...those sources don't exactly scholarly.
> 
> Chronology of early Islam (83 wars in 154 years!)
> 
> Most of what you are saying fall's in the category of "blah blah blah" - how, specifically, was Mohammed NOT ahead of his time in the 6th century?
> 
> Was he an epileptic hallucinating in a cave?  Who the hell knows.  We have prophets conferring with burning shrubbery and zombie prophets running around proclaiming descent from deities with anger management issues.  Religion is nuts, war was common place (as was rape and pillage as a rightful reward of conquest)...it sucked to be a woman, it sucked to be an orphan and it sucked even more to be a widow.  That was the world THEN.
> 
> Mohammed and his followers started out persecuted by the polytheists. He saw corruption, greed, and inhumane treatment of widows and orphans.  And he sought to remedy it.  And, he did.
> 
> Like all prophets he was a product of his time - yet you judge him by 20th century ethics.  ALL the prophets would fail your test.
> 
> The problem is largely what the followers choose to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.
> 
> That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.
> 
> I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about some actual numbers?  In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.  How many are involved in atrocities?  How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based?  Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole?  Hate mongering maybe?
> 
> Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok?  Reveal your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?
> 
> How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.
Click to expand...


Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia?  Athiest-sorta China?


----------



## rylah

Well, since Coyote was talking about how Osama bin Laden was condemned by majority of Muslims, I went to look into some data...

Prepare your "surprised face" and get a shovel for coming apologetics,
because guess who are his biggest fans to this day?






Osama bin Laden Largely Discredited Among Muslim Publics in Recent Years


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Well, since Coyote was talking about how Osama bin Laden was condemned by majority of Muslims, I went to look into some data...
> 
> Prepare your "surprised face" and get a shovel for coming apologetics,
> because guess who are his biggest fans to this day?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osama bin Laden Largely Discredited Among Muslim Publics in Recent Years




Can you clarify what you mean by the part of your post which appears to have disappeared?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of _Jesus is great_.
> 
> So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How are they uniquely evil?  Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.
> 
> Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil".  Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?
Click to expand...


Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical. 

Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder. 

I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Well, since Coyote was talking about how Osama bin Laden was condemned by majority of Muslims, I went to look into some data...
> 
> Prepare your "surprised face" and get a shovel for coming apologetics,
> because guess who are his biggest fans to this day?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osama bin Laden Largely Discredited Among Muslim Publics in Recent Years



You really are one of the most dishonest posters I've run across here in zeal to personally attack. It would probably be better to just ignore you but I'll attempt a reasonable response.

First, I was talking about r*eactions around the world to the 9/11 attack* and how that attack was condemned.  

Your poll from 2011 shows dropping support for bin Laden himself...
*what does it say about how people felt about the actual attack? *I can find and link to condemnations and offers of help world wide after the attack - including from the Muslim world if that is required.  Do you have any polls that actually reflect how people felt about the attack?

This is from Wikipedia but it links to the actual Pew Polls (it's just easier to insert it this way) - this is what people felt about suicide bombings (the act itself) between 2006 - 2013:

Muslim attitudes toward terrorism - Wikipedia
*Suicide bombings[edit]*
In a 2006 Pew poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[49]

*In Europe[edit]*

(35 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(24 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(13 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(27 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
*In mainly Muslim countries[edit]*

(53 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 28% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(26 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 17% thought it could be justified often or sometimes
(57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 29% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(69 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 46% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(22 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
(28 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
In 2007, 17% of Muslims in Palestinian territories believed it could rarely or never be justified, and 70% thought it could be justified sometimes or often.[50] In comparison, 32% stated in 2014 it was never justified, while 13% said it was rarely justified, 46% said it is often or sometimes justified.[51] A 2011 report by Pew Research stated that 81% of American Muslim thought it was never justified, 5% said rarely, 7% sometimes and 1% often.[52]

In a 2013 poll, 91% of Muslims in Iraq said suicide bombings to defend Islam from enemies could never/rarely be justified while 7% said it was often/sometimes. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, 96% said it was never/rarely justified while 3% said often/sometimes. In Albania, 93% said it was never/rarely justified while 6% said often/sometimes. In Russia, 90% said never/rarely while 4% said often/sometimes. In Kosovo, 82% said it was never/rarely justified while 11% said often/sometimes. In Azerbaijan, 96% said it was never/rarely while 1% said often/sometimes. In Tajikistan, 85% said never/rarely while 3% said often/sometimes. In Kazakhstan, 95% said never/rarely while 2% said often/sometimes. In Kyrygztsan, 82% said never/rarely while 10% said often/sometimes. In Afghanistan, 58% said never/rarely and 39% often/sometimes. In Morocco, 74% said never/sometimes and 9% said often/sometimes.[53]

A 2014 Pew poll showed that support for suicide bombings had fallen to a great degree in Muslim-majority nations over the last decade:[54]


(46 vs 45) In Lebanon, 45% it could never justified, 25% rarely and 29% said often/sometimes.
(59 vs 38) In Egypt, 38% said it could never be justified, 35% rarely while 24% said often/sometimes.
(29 vs 58) In Turkey, 58% said never, 11% rarely while 18% said often/sometimes.
(44 vs 55) In Jordan, 55% said never, 29% rarely while 15% said often/sometimes.
(8 vs 90) In Tunisia, 90% said never, 3% rarely while 5% said often/sometimes.
(61 vs 33) In Bangladesh, 33% said never, 14% rarely and 47% said often/sometimes.
(33 vs 60) In Malaysia, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 18% often/sometimes.
(22 vs 76) In Indonesia, 76% said never, 13% rarely and 9% often/sometimes.
(7 vs 83) In Pakistan, 83% said never, 4% rarely and 3% often/sometimes.
(34 vs 60) In Nigeria, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 19% often/sometimes.
(31 vs 56) In Senegal, 56% said never, 16% rarely and 15% often/sometimes.
In mostly non-Muslim nations:


(45 vs 50) In Tanzania, 50% said never, 19% said rarely and 26% said often/sometimes.
(46 vs 48) In Israel, 48% said never, 30% rarely and 16% said often/sometimes.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Shusha said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just happens to be Islam doing it NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of _Jesus is great_.
> 
> So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How are they uniquely evil?  Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.
> 
> Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil".  Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
Click to expand...


Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.  Is there a reason why it is so hard to examine the culture of Islam as it is doing NOW?
> 
> 
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of _Jesus is great_.
> 
> So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How are they uniquely evil?  Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.
> 
> Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil".  Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
Click to expand...


What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.


----------



## Hollie

A portion of an article from almost two decades ago. The Islamic psychopaths have only gotten worse. 


Hamas and the Critical Role of Hate Indoctrination - Justus Reid Weiner and Noam Weissman

A video clip repeatedly broadcast on Palestinian TV since December 2000 features a child actor playing the role of Muhammad al-Dura (who died in the crossfire between Israeli troops and Palestinian terrorists in September 2004) calling on other Palestinian children to literally follow him to paradise through martyrdom: "I am waving not to part but to say, 'Follow me.'"25 While the clip was removed from Palestinian TV in 2003 after U.S. senators expressed shock and horror at what they perceived to be "horrific child abuse," the PA resumed its use in broadcasts in June 2006.26


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. Poor persecuted Arab warlord.
> 
> That does nothing to diminish the legacy of murder, rape and brutality that defines 1400 years of Islamist ideology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.
> 
> I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about some actual numbers?  In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.  How many are involved in atrocities?  How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based?  Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole?  Hate mongering maybe?
> 
> Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok?  Reveal your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?
> 
> How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia?  Athiest-sorta China?
Click to expand...


Are you hoping to make the case that Islam is just as retrograde as others, therefore, no worries?

Odd, but I haven’t found a world wide plague of exported psychopaths from the places you hoped to play the ‘moral equivalency” game.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it isn't unique to Islam.  That is the point.  People label Islam as uniquely evil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of _Jesus is great_.
> 
> So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How are they uniquely evil?  Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.
> 
> Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil".  Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
Click to expand...


Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a single major world religion that doesn't have a problematic legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.
> 
> I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about some actual numbers?  In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.  How many are involved in atrocities?  How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based?  Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole?  Hate mongering maybe?
> 
> Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok?  Reveal your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?
> 
> How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia?  Athiest-sorta China?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you hoping to make the case that Islam is just as retrograde as others, therefore, no worries?
> 
> Odd, but I haven’t found a world wide plague of exported psychopaths from the places you hoped to play the ‘moral equivalency” game.
Click to expand...


You keep trying to claim it's "unique".

I don't think you know what that word means.

Carry on


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I don't resd about heavily armed groups of radical Lutherans sawing off the heads of non-believers to the droning intonation of _Jesus is great_.
> 
> So yes, with the uniquely evil behaviors of Moslems (the world-wide campaign of religious intolerance and to include uniquely abhorrent acts of suicide bombings, street murder, whipping, caning, bludgeoning, beheading, stoning, public hanging, women forced in to Shame Sacks, welfare payments to mass murderer, etc., etc.,), well yes, the attribute of "uniquely evil" applies to islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they uniquely evil?  Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.
> 
> Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil".  Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
Click to expand...


Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical. 

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are they uniquely evil?  Every single one of your claims applies to others in most cases very broadly.
> 
> Shusha you once challenged me on Israel and it's "national law" claiming it was wrong to criticize Israel for doing what other countries do and assigning it a "unique evil".  Well that is exactly what is happening here only she is not only only doing that she giving those attributes to all Muslims worldwide and you don't even question her claims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
Click to expand...

Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know of a single religion currently, other than Islam, whose adherents cite as the basis for their atrocities.
> 
> I find it impossible to use “well, they used to do it”, as an excuse for the near daily acts of madness committed by adherents to islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about some actual numbers?  In 2018 there were 1.8 billion Muslims.  How many are involved in atrocities?  How much of the violence is a result of ongoing wars and conflicts that are not religiously based?  Why is it, when it comes to Islam only - the extremists are used to define the whole?  Hate mongering maybe?
> 
> Try to answer without plagerierizing cut'n'paste ok?  Reveal your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your request would generate quite a list. Why don't we take in steps and take a look at a subset of islamic atrocities go better help you focus, shall we?
> 
> How bout' human rights violations as a starter? Maybe we could focus on generally accepted standards of human rights, religious liberties and freedom of expression comparing, oh, I don't know, the Great Satan (where you have safely ensconced yourself and are protected from the very abuses of.pious islamists) to Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt or the KSA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are these the same human rights type of violations going going on in Bhuddist Myanmar, Hindu India, Christian Guatemala? Christian Russia?  Athiest-sorta China?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you hoping to make the case that Islam is just as retrograde as others, therefore, no worries?
> 
> Odd, but I haven’t found a world wide plague of exported psychopaths from the places you hoped to play the ‘moral equivalency” game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep trying to claim it's "unique".
> 
> I don't think you know what that word means.
> 
> Carry on
Click to expand...


Thanks. Other than Sunni and Shia holy warriors routinely as’splodin each other at mosques, I can’t find instances of Lutheran and Presbyterian suicide bombers attacking each other. 

Maybe you have a link to wiki


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil"  with a "unique practice of evil"?
> 
> What is unique?



It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format.  But I start with ideology.  Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology.  Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others. 

The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs.  Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions.  Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil.  Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
Click to expand...


Ah, you’re borrowing conspiracy theories from P F Tinmore

Carry on 

Odd that polls don’t stop Islamic mass murders. I’m sure the folks in New York, Madrid, London, etc., etc. are comforted by your polls.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of my claims applies to Islam, currently. If you want to excuse the atrocities of Islam with “but.... but.... but, they did too”, that is just nonsensical.
> 
> Yes, “they” committed horrific acts. “They” however underwent a reformation, matured and became a part of the modern age. Islamism is still 7th century in its ideology and actions. The ideology shows no indication that its adherents are willing or even able to adopt a 21st century worldview. There is an undeniable dynamic that connects one politico-religious ideology with continuing events of calculated mass murder.
> 
> I have no qualms about holding Islam, the politico-religious ideology accountable for the psychopaths it spawns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?


Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil"  with a "unique practice of evil"?
> 
> What is unique?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format.  But I start with ideology.  Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology.  Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.
> 
> The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs.  Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions.  Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil.  Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.
Click to expand...

Ok...that would seem to fit a number of religions...


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, you’re borrowing conspiracy theories from P F Tinmore
> 
> Carry on
> 
> Odd that polls don’t stop Islamic mass murders. I’m sure the folks in New York, Madrid, London, etc., etc. are comforted by your polls.
Click to expand...

Polls don’t stop any mass murders, like the guy who shot the Tree of Life Synagogue or the mosques in Christ Church.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single one of your claims applies to others too.  Feel free to hold them accountable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0
> 
> Hmmm!
Click to expand...

I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Latest poll shows more than half of Palestinians support return to terror intifada ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?
> 
> I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0
> 
> Hmmm!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?
Click to expand...

I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.

Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil"  with a "unique practice of evil"?
> 
> What is unique?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format.  But I start with ideology.  Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology.  Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.
> 
> The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs.  Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions.  Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil.  Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok...that would seem to fit a number of religions...
Click to expand...



Well, no, actually.  Only one or two.    But either way, these were only examples.  

The point being that holding a particular ideology, can lend itself easier to extremism.  For example, if you believe that killing "other" will lead to a reward in an afterlife, you might be far more likely to kill people than if you believed that killing "other" will lead to eternal agony in an afterlife.  

Its an ideology which may lead to a practice of evil (assuming we agree killing people is evil).


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I would honestly like to take it up with you in the "Bull Ring" - a defined topic, with just you and I discussing it.  Then when we are done, and agree, disagree, agree to disagree - it's open to the peanut gallery.



I'd be down for that.  Define the topic.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> ...*shouldn't we be asking instead - why is there so much violence coming out of the Islamic world now?  AND how do people feel about it?  AND what can they do about it? *


*
*
We should indeed be asking why there is so much violence coming out of the Islamic world now.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0
> 
> Hmmm!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.
> 
> Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
> 
> Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
Click to expand...


I read a long time ago that Islamic terrorist attacks were about religion which _is_ the ideology. Look at the predominant religion of the Islamic Middle East.


----------



## Hollie

And the _Peaceful Inner Struggle_™️ rolls on. 
*


Exclusive: Hamas plots attacks on Israel from Turkey as Erdogan turns blind eye
*





Turkey is allowing senior Hamas operatives to plot attacks against Israel from Istanbul, The Telegraph can disclose, as President Recep Tayyip Erdogan plays host to the terrorist group’s leaders.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0
> 
> Hmmm!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.
> 
> Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
> 
> Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
Click to expand...


There are terror attacks by Muslims that kill Christian Copts, from time to time, in Egypt.  They are usually not reported in the regular news media.  And this wouldn't concern you because they don't involve Israelis or Jews.

As for Syria, there was a vicious civil war that lasted for years and killed hundreds of thousands before America and Russia ever got involved in it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0
> 
> Hmmm!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.
> 
> Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
> 
> Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
Click to expand...


Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yuval Segev, Army Radio’s reporter covering the police and Jerusalem, on Monday night tweeted that a PA resident was arrested on suspicion of breaking into the Jewish cemetery on Mount Olives and using old tombstones to build a public staircase in his village.




https://twitter.com/segev_yuval


The investigation was launched following a complaint from City Councilman Arieh King. The suspect denies the charges.

One Segev follower, Shai Lourie, tweeted that if such a thing had happened in Europe it would have opened all the news editions, but on Mount Olives it barely generates a yawn.

During the Jordanian rule (1948-1967), the Mount Olives Jewish cemetery suffered systematic damage to gravestones and tombs. As early as the end of 1949, Israeli observers stationed on Mount Zion reported that Arab residents began uprooting tombstones.

In 1954, the Israeli government filed a formal complaint with the UN General Assembly regarding the further destruction of graves and plowing in the area. In the late 1950s, the Jordanian army used tombstones to build military camps.


(full article online)

PA Arab Used Jewish Gravestones to Build Public Staircase


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil"  with a "unique practice of evil"?
> 
> What is unique?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format.  But I start with ideology.  Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology.  Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.
> 
> The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs.  Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions.  Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil.  Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok...that would seem to fit a number of religions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no, actually.  Only one or two.    But either way, these were only examples.
> 
> The point being that holding a particular ideology, can lend itself easier to extremism.  For example, if you believe that killing "other" will lead to a reward in an afterlife, you might be far more likely to kill people than if you believed that killing "other" will lead to eternal agony in an afterlife.
> 
> Its an ideology which may lead to a practice of evil (assuming we agree killing people is evil).
Click to expand...

Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.



1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.


----------



## Hollie

It is a worthy sentiment expressed by Adele Raemer but the facts of Islamic ideology contradict any notion of peaceable, equitable existence with Hamas. At no time in Islamist history have non-Moslems been treated as equals by Moslems. There simply is nothing in Islamic ideology or Islamic societal norms that even begins to approach Western standards of equality, tolerance, personal freedoms and rule of law. 




Gaza border resident to UN: Peace will come when Hamas stops terror

Peace can only come to Israel’s south once Hamas allows Gazans to thrive instead of investing solely in terrorism, Adele Raemer, a resident of Kibbutz Nirim, told the UN Security Council in its periodic hearing on the Middle East on Wednesday.

Raemer, the first Israeli from near the Gaza border to address the Security Council, did so at the invitation of US Ambassador to the UN Kelly Craft, who is serving as president of the Security Council this month.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> You really are one of the most dishonest posters I've run across here in zeal to personally attack. It would probably be better to just ignore you but I'll attempt a reasonable response.



This shows quiet the desperation when dealing with facts.
If you pay close attention to the line of our conversation here, several pages back when we talked about the case about the Jewish teenager, who you kept claiming committed a crime which he was acquitted from, you'll see that all I brought was facts.

Call them dishonest, take them personally or totally ignore them,
changes nothing.

So what is your point?




Coyote said:


> First, I was talking about r*eactions around the world to the 9/11 attack* and how that attack was condemned.
> 
> Your poll from 2011 shows dropping support for bin Laden himself...
> *what does it say about how people felt about the actual attack? *I can find and link to condemnations and offers of help world wide after the attack - including from the Muslim world if that is required.  Do you have any polls that actually reflect how people felt about the attack?



What people felt... condemnations from the Muslim Brotherhood on TV...

Does it change something,
do you even realize the  magnitude of the facts you've just brought?



Coyote said:


> This is from Wikipedia but it links to the actual Pew Polls (it's just easier to insert it this way) - this is what people felt about suicide bombings (the act itself) between 2006 - 2013:
> 
> 
> Muslim attitudes toward terrorism - Wikipedia
> *Suicide bombings[edit]*
> In a 2006 Pew poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[49]
> 
> *In Europe[edit]*
> 
> (35 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (24 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (13 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (27 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> *In mainly Muslim countries[edit]*
> 
> (53 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 28% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (26 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 17% thought it could be justified often or sometimes
> (57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 29% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (69 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 46% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (22 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (28 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> In 2007, 17% of Muslims in Palestinian territories believed it could rarely or never be justified, and 70% thought it could be justified sometimes or often.[50] In comparison, 32% stated in 2014 it was never justified, while 13% said it was rarely justified, 46% said it is often or sometimes justified.[51] A 2011 report by Pew Research stated that 81% of American Muslim thought it was never justified, 5% said rarely, 7% sometimes and 1% often.[52]
> 
> In a 2013 poll, 91% of Muslims in Iraq said suicide bombings to defend Islam from enemies could never/rarely be justified while 7% said it was often/sometimes. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, 96% said it was never/rarely justified while 3% said often/sometimes. In Albania, 93% said it was never/rarely justified while 6% said often/sometimes. In Russia, 90% said never/rarely while 4% said often/sometimes. In Kosovo, 82% said it was never/rarely justified while 11% said often/sometimes. In Azerbaijan, 96% said it was never/rarely while 1% said often/sometimes. In Tajikistan, 85% said never/rarely while 3% said often/sometimes. In Kazakhstan, 95% said never/rarely while 2% said often/sometimes. In Kyrygztsan, 82% said never/rarely while 10% said often/sometimes. In Afghanistan, 58% said never/rarely and 39% often/sometimes. In Morocco, 74% said never/sometimes and 9% said often/sometimes.[53]
> 
> A 2014 Pew poll showed that support for suicide bombings had fallen to a great degree in Muslim-majority nations over the last decade:[54]
> 
> 
> (46 vs 45) In Lebanon, 45% it could never justified, 25% rarely and 29% said often/sometimes.
> (59 vs 38) In Egypt, 38% said it could never be justified, 35% rarely while 24% said often/sometimes.
> (29 vs 58) In Turkey, 58% said never, 11% rarely while 18% said often/sometimes.
> (44 vs 55) In Jordan, 55% said never, 29% rarely while 15% said often/sometimes.
> (8 vs 90) In Tunisia, 90% said never, 3% rarely while 5% said often/sometimes.
> (61 vs 33) In Bangladesh, 33% said never, 14% rarely and 47% said often/sometimes.
> (33 vs 60) In Malaysia, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 18% often/sometimes.
> (22 vs 76) In Indonesia, 76% said never, 13% rarely and 9% often/sometimes.
> (7 vs 83) In Pakistan, 83% said never, 4% rarely and 3% often/sometimes.
> (34 vs 60) In Nigeria, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 19% often/sometimes.
> (31 vs 56) In Senegal, 56% said never, 16% rarely and 15% often/sometimes.
> In mostly non-Muslim nations:
> 
> 
> (45 vs 50) In Tanzania, 50% said never, 19% said rarely and 26% said often/sometimes.
> (46 vs 48) In Israel, 48% said never, 30% rarely and 16% said often/sometimes.



Let's examine:


Islam is the 2nd largest religious group in the world, there're 1.8 billion Muslims .
An average of 70% against and 30% in support for suicide bombing
That's 540 million Muslims worldwide who support suicide bombings.

How many people are there in whole of US?
Now what is interesting is that after going through a strict system of screening at immigration, and life in a free society, the support for suicide bombing in the US among the Muslim community reduced only by 10%.


This extensive PEW poll shows the most fundamentalist Muslim societies and their views on enforcement of Sharia, honor killings, and capital punishment for converting out of Islam:
















Pew research: The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society

The Arabs in Gaza and Judea are among the most fundamentalist Islamists.
Without any correlation to recent history of conquests and defeats, Muslim or non-Muslim rule.

It also "just" happens, that the Palestinian cause is the fulfillment of the imperialist goal of an exclusive Muslim domination over the entire middle east.

To sum it up:

Israelis know full well who they're dealing with, without the need for Pew polls.
Media coverage for Islamist apologists won't change the facts, neither you shoveling their PC bs about the "poor peaceful" 70% who're the victims for being associated with the 30% of the savages in their community, but that still prevents nothing for the later.

Still, the only effective preventive force against the Islamist ideology is reached in an environment of a non-Muslim rule. Either through successful military campaign and correct security measures, or reformation of  their faith, only in close proximity to other functional societies who's culture challenges their core religious tenants.

Only external, or non-Muslim force and environment are effective, the 70% are at large passive and ineffective in preventing the spread of the Islamist ideology.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
Click to expand...


Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.

The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.

Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.

With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.

Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
> The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.
> 
> The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.
> 
> Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.
> 
> With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
> and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.
> 
> Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.
Click to expand...



Yes!  Thank you.  (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)

There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism.  Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism.  There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.  

As examples (in no particular order):

grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah

heaven/hell vs. the world to come

reward/punishment vs. repair of the world

the purpose of sacrifice

the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot


To bring it back to why this matters.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.  

To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway?  And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist attack. I guess the rabid Islamists just can’t help themselves. 
*


Israeli military strikes Hamas targets in Gaza after rocket fire*

Sirens sounded in the Sderot area Wednesday night as the Iron Dome intercepted a rocket launched from the Strip, the Israeli army said

The Israeli military struck Hamas targets early Thursday morning after a rocket was fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel overnight, the army said in a statement.


----------



## Hollie

Grab your party hats. Abu has launched into another tirade railing against the usual rant'ee; the Joooooos.

Abu is making all the usual excuses for a dysfunctional society that can't cope. He shouid look elsewhere for the source of a failed islamic enclave but that would require some introspection and facing some hard realities. 



*
Abbas' libel: Israel brings "cannabis and drugs" to Palestinians - they "don't want us to have a future"*

*Abbas' libel: Israel brings "cannabis and drugs" to Palestinians - they "don't want us to have a future" | PMW Analysis
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Dec 18, 2019

*“The Israeli occupation’s security forces are interested in there being drug needles in the hands of the children, youth, and young people instead of books, pens, or work tools, because drug needles kill the soul and lead the users to a stage of helplessness” - op-ed in official PA daily*
At a recent conference against corruption organized by the Palestinian Authority, Chairman Abbas repeated the PA libel that Israel actively supplies drugs to Palestinians in order to ruin their future.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now that Hamas has again – clearly – reminded the world that it has not changed and continues to seek the destruction of Israel, the question is: Why are some world leaders, governments and organizations continuing to embrace the leaders of the movement?


A further question that ought to be asked in light of the recent venomous anti-Israel statements by Hamas leaders in the past few days: Why is the United Nations trying to convince Hamas to participate in Palestinian presidential and parliamentary elections?


All that is needed is for Erdogan and the rest of the world to listen to the statements of Hamas leaders in the past few days to understand that the movement is more determined than ever to achieve its goals of driving Jews "out of all of Palestine" and replacing Israel with an Islamic state.... What is it that they do not understand about "DEATH TO ISRAEL"? ... It makes one wonder what their real motive is.
(full article online)

Hamas, Thirty-Two Years Later


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
> The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.
> 
> The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.
> 
> Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.
> 
> With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
> and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.
> 
> Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!  Thank you.  (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)
> 
> There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism.  Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism.  There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.
> 
> As examples (in no particular order):
> 
> grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah
> 
> heaven/hell vs. the world to come
> 
> reward/punishment vs. repair of the world
> 
> the purpose of sacrifice
> 
> the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot
> 
> 
> To bring it back to why this matters.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.
> 
> To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway?  And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?
Click to expand...


Although this is not the Religion Forum, it's true that there are many theological differences between all 3 of these faiths.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*•   It depends on who you kill. Murdering a man in front of his wife and 2-year-old son, and not killing the wife and son, shows Palestinian “values,” says Fatah leader Abbas Zaki:*

*Zaki: “We don’t kill people as we please. There are values”*

*•   Zaki lied, claiming the murderer spared the wife and 2-year-old son after killing the father. In fact, the murderer attempted to kill all three but wife and son survived with stab wounds*

*•   Zaki lied, claiming the Palestinian leadership does not support the murder of Israeli women and children*

*•   Zaki praised the teenage terrorist murderers – who he called “children” - for leading the 2015 terror wave *

(full article online)

It's official. It's a Palestinian "value" to murder Israeli men on their way to prayer | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist misfits doing what Islamic terrorist misfits do. 

This was another “proportional response” by Israel that unfortunately does little to curb the propensity of the Islamic mindset toward offensive 
gee-had. 





Israeli jets target Hamas sites in response to rocket fire

For the second time in less than 24 hours Israeli jets struck Hamas positions in the southern Gaza Strip following earlier rocket fire on Thursday evening.

The military said that Israeli jets struck an “underground infrastructure and a naval target” belonging to Hamas in the southern Gaza Strip as well as “a terrorist military compound in the northern Gaza Strip.”


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas fashion mavens have little else to do but ride around in pickup trucks and issue pompous threats.

I’m guessing their bosses in Tehran are getting a bit peeved about the occupation forces made up of PIJ and Hamas weren’t playing nice and Hamas was slaking off regarding getting into the gee-had.



Islamic Jihad: We agreed with Hamas to respond to future ‘aggression’ together

*Ziad al-Nakhala makes remark after Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’s military wing, sat out latest escalation between terror groups in Gaza and Israel.

mourning Abu al-Ata’s death.






*


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> The Hamas fashion mavens have little else to do but ride around in pickup trucks and issue pompous threats.
> 
> I’m guessing their bosses in Tehran are getting a bit peeved about the occupation forces made up of PIJ and Hamas weren’t playing nice and Hamas was slaking off regarding getting into the gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic Jihad: We agreed with Hamas to respond to future ‘aggression’ together
> 
> *Ziad al-Nakhala makes remark after Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’s military wing, sat out latest escalation between terror groups in Gaza and Israel.
> 
> mourning Abu al-Ata’s death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Well, when you consider that under Hamas' benevolent rule, unemployment for young men in Gaza is about 80% this is pretty much a plum job.  I wonder how many of them would want to do this if they had other employment opportunities.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
> The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.
> 
> The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.
> 
> Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.
> 
> With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
> and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.
> 
> Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!  Thank you.  (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)
Click to expand...


I disagree.

There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion? Say the Jaines for one.  Samaritins.  And others.



> There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism.  Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism.  There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.



Perhaps but both Christianity (why do you call it Xtian?) and Islam have at their base the Old Testament of the Jews which...unfortunately also contains some pretty harsh stuff.



> As examples (in no particular order):
> 
> grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah



I'm curious - can you describe what you mean here?



> heaven/hell vs. the world to come



I think the idea of heaven and hell is seriously messed up - especialy the idea that you will suffer in torment forever for the acts of one lifetime which is an atom in the bucket of forever.  I kind of understand where it came from...Christianity evolved as a religion of slavery and oppression, a way for poor people in a harsh life to believe there is something better out there if they just hang in there until they die.



> reward/punishment vs. repair of the world



You have me there...the idea that this world is less important than the next has always disturbed me...it implies we don't have to worry so much about what we do to this world.



> the purpose of sacrifice



Can you expand on that?



> the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot



That one is a bit complicated - assuming I understand what you are saying.  Christianity is mixed with it's many different sects and it's possible I am getting it all wrong.  There are those that believe that good works are part of salvation and those believe salvation requires only belief.  Is that what you are talking of?  Please expand 



> To bring it back to why this matters.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than *if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.*



Interesting Shusha...not sure if I have said this but I'm not religious, not atheist either but one primary reason is what you just stated above.  It's not something I can live with.



> To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway?  And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?



IF it works that way...and I'm not sure it does in Christian or Islamic theology as developed by it's founders.

I think often about what Ghandi supposedly said (but sadly...actually never did but still a good quote) 
_I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ._

Same with Islam.  There is what the prophets actually (supposedly) said and what the many interpreters and followers afterwards said and did.


----------



## Coyote

;kl;


rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really are one of the most dishonest posters I've run across here in zeal to personally attack. It would probably be better to just ignore you but I'll attempt a reasonable response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shows quiet the desperation when dealing with facts.
> If you pay close attention to the line of our conversation here, several pages back when we talked about the case about the Jewish teenager, who you kept claiming committed a crime which he was acquitted from, you'll see that all I brought was facts.
> 
> Call them dishonest, take them personally or totally ignore them,
> changes nothing.
> 
> So what is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, I was talking about r*eactions around the world to the 9/11 attack* and how that attack was condemned.
> 
> Your poll from 2011 shows dropping support for bin Laden himself...
> *what does it say about how people felt about the actual attack? *I can find and link to condemnations and offers of help world wide after the attack - including from the Muslim world if that is required.  Do you have any polls that actually reflect how people felt about the attack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What people felt... condemnations from the Muslim Brotherhood on TV...
> 
> Does it change something,
> do you even realize the  magnitude of the facts you've just brought?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is from Wikipedia but it links to the actual Pew Polls (it's just easier to insert it this way) - this is what people felt about suicide bombings (the act itself) between 2006 - 2013:
> 
> 
> Muslim attitudes toward terrorism - Wikipedia
> *Suicide bombings[edit]*
> In a 2006 Pew poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[49]
> 
> *In Europe[edit]*
> 
> (35 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (24 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (13 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (27 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> *In mainly Muslim countries[edit]*
> 
> (53 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 28% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (26 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 17% thought it could be justified often or sometimes
> (57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 29% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (69 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 46% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (22 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (28 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> In 2007, 17% of Muslims in Palestinian territories believed it could rarely or never be justified, and 70% thought it could be justified sometimes or often.[50] In comparison, 32% stated in 2014 it was never justified, while 13% said it was rarely justified, 46% said it is often or sometimes justified.[51] A 2011 report by Pew Research stated that 81% of American Muslim thought it was never justified, 5% said rarely, 7% sometimes and 1% often.[52]
> 
> In a 2013 poll, 91% of Muslims in Iraq said suicide bombings to defend Islam from enemies could never/rarely be justified while 7% said it was often/sometimes. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, 96% said it was never/rarely justified while 3% said often/sometimes. In Albania, 93% said it was never/rarely justified while 6% said often/sometimes. In Russia, 90% said never/rarely while 4% said often/sometimes. In Kosovo, 82% said it was never/rarely justified while 11% said often/sometimes. In Azerbaijan, 96% said it was never/rarely while 1% said often/sometimes. In Tajikistan, 85% said never/rarely while 3% said often/sometimes. In Kazakhstan, 95% said never/rarely while 2% said often/sometimes. In Kyrygztsan, 82% said never/rarely while 10% said often/sometimes. In Afghanistan, 58% said never/rarely and 39% often/sometimes. In Morocco, 74% said never/sometimes and 9% said often/sometimes.[53]
> 
> A 2014 Pew poll showed that support for suicide bombings had fallen to a great degree in Muslim-majority nations over the last decade:[54]
> 
> 
> (46 vs 45) In Lebanon, 45% it could never justified, 25% rarely and 29% said often/sometimes.
> (59 vs 38) In Egypt, 38% said it could never be justified, 35% rarely while 24% said often/sometimes.
> (29 vs 58) In Turkey, 58% said never, 11% rarely while 18% said often/sometimes.
> (44 vs 55) In Jordan, 55% said never, 29% rarely while 15% said often/sometimes.
> (8 vs 90) In Tunisia, 90% said never, 3% rarely while 5% said often/sometimes.
> (61 vs 33) In Bangladesh, 33% said never, 14% rarely and 47% said often/sometimes.
> (33 vs 60) In Malaysia, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 18% often/sometimes.
> (22 vs 76) In Indonesia, 76% said never, 13% rarely and 9% often/sometimes.
> (7 vs 83) In Pakistan, 83% said never, 4% rarely and 3% often/sometimes.
> (34 vs 60) In Nigeria, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 19% often/sometimes.
> (31 vs 56) In Senegal, 56% said never, 16% rarely and 15% often/sometimes.
> In mostly non-Muslim nations:
> 
> 
> (45 vs 50) In Tanzania, 50% said never, 19% said rarely and 26% said often/sometimes.
> (46 vs 48) In Israel, 48% said never, 30% rarely and 16% said often/sometimes.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's examine:
> 
> 
> Islam is the 2nd largest religious group in the world, there're 1.8 billion Muslims .
> An average of 70% against and 30% in support for suicide bombing
> That's 540 million Muslims worldwide who support suicide bombings.
> 
> How many people are there in whole of US?
> Now what is interesting is that after going through a strict system of screening at immigration, and life in a free society, the support for suicide bombing in the US among the Muslim community reduced only by 10%.
> 
> 
> This extensive PEW poll shows the most fundamentalist Muslim societies and their views on enforcement of Sharia, honor killings, and capital punishment for converting out of Islam:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pew research: The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society
> 
> The Arabs in Gaza and Judea are among the most fundamentalist Islamists.
> Without any correlation to recent history of conquests and defeats, Muslim or non-Muslim rule.
> 
> It also "just" happens, that the Palestinian cause is the fulfillment of the imperialist goal of an exclusive Muslim domination over the entire middle east.
> 
> To sum it up:
> 
> Israelis know full well who they're dealing with, without the need for Pew polls.
> Media coverage for Islamist apologists won't change the facts, neither you shoveling their PC bs about the "poor peaceful" 70% who're the victims for being associated with the 30% of the savages in their community, but that still prevents nothing for the later.
> 
> Still, the only effective preventive force against the Islamist ideology is reached in an environment of a non-Muslim rule. Either through successful military campaign and correct security measures, or reformation of  their faith, only in close proximity to other functional societies who's culture challenges their core religious tenants.
> 
> Only external, or non-Muslim force and environment are effective, the 70% are at large passive and ineffective in preventing the spread of the Islamist ideology.
Click to expand...



Media coverage is largely anti-Islam.

One thing of note - what puts a leash on extremism is secular societies and governments - not the individual faith.  When government and religion are intermixed it never ends well for minority religions.  The issue is not one of "non-Muslim" rule - it is NO religious rule.  A secular government, that protects all religious freedom and rights.  There is no society where religion is intertwined with government that does not in some way oppress (or worse) religious minorities.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
Click to expand...


Actually...I think YOU are the one who is reducing complex ideologies into their simplest components, particularly with Islam.  For example you seem to imply there is a kill for Allah's rewards ideology and ignore the fact that, at least according to it's original intent there is a whole host of rules and regulations governing when you can fight, who you can fight and how you treat those you fight.  (not that Muslim extremists pay attention to that either).

You are arguing there a no commonalities - I'm saying there are - not the SAME - but commonalities.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts.  There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts.   Mass murderers...hell...where do we start?  The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga?  Kosovo?  Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )
> 
> The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole.  There are over 1.8 billion muslims.  How many are involved in terrorism?  If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath.  It isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?
> 
> I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.
> 
> Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.
> 
> https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf
> 
> What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to _approve_ of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists™️” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq.  What started that hmm?
> 
> Also, try to stick to what I actually say.  My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.
> 
> Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0
> 
> Hmmm!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.
> 
> Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
> 
> Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.
Click to expand...


I think that it is nothing so simplistic.

There are those that think it's entirely do to religious ideology.

I think there are many reasons:

Most important - terrorism is a tactic of those that don't have conventional military strength.  It's easy - doesn't require much funding - anyone can do it.

Because it's a tactic - it's used by many groups for many reasons.

The countries most affected are largely those with poorly functioning governments, failed states, ongoing ethnic/tribal/religious conflicts and weak central governments.

There are a lot of reasons - but it is way too easy to blame it on religious ideology or "occupation".


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion?



Jews are spread across the world.  The Jewish religion, though, very strongly resides with the Jewish people.  Its a religion of a singular people.  Thus, not a world religion.  Very different from Xtianity and Islam which are world religions precisely because they no longer reside within only one culture.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> ;kl;
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really are one of the most dishonest posters I've run across here in zeal to personally attack. It would probably be better to just ignore you but I'll attempt a reasonable response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shows quiet the desperation when dealing with facts.
> If you pay close attention to the line of our conversation here, several pages back when we talked about the case about the Jewish teenager, who you kept claiming committed a crime which he was acquitted from, you'll see that all I brought was facts.
> 
> Call them dishonest, take them personally or totally ignore them,
> changes nothing.
> 
> So what is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, I was talking about r*eactions around the world to the 9/11 attack* and how that attack was condemned.
> 
> Your poll from 2011 shows dropping support for bin Laden himself...
> *what does it say about how people felt about the actual attack? *I can find and link to condemnations and offers of help world wide after the attack - including from the Muslim world if that is required.  Do you have any polls that actually reflect how people felt about the attack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What people felt... condemnations from the Muslim Brotherhood on TV...
> 
> Does it change something,
> do you even realize the  magnitude of the facts you've just brought?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is from Wikipedia but it links to the actual Pew Polls (it's just easier to insert it this way) - this is what people felt about suicide bombings (the act itself) between 2006 - 2013:
> 
> 
> Muslim attitudes toward terrorism - Wikipedia
> *Suicide bombings[edit]*
> In a 2006 Pew poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[49]
> 
> *In Europe[edit]*
> 
> (35 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (24 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (13 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (27 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> *In mainly Muslim countries[edit]*
> 
> (53 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 28% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (26 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 17% thought it could be justified often or sometimes
> (57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 29% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (69 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 46% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (22 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> (28 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
> In 2007, 17% of Muslims in Palestinian territories believed it could rarely or never be justified, and 70% thought it could be justified sometimes or often.[50] In comparison, 32% stated in 2014 it was never justified, while 13% said it was rarely justified, 46% said it is often or sometimes justified.[51] A 2011 report by Pew Research stated that 81% of American Muslim thought it was never justified, 5% said rarely, 7% sometimes and 1% often.[52]
> 
> In a 2013 poll, 91% of Muslims in Iraq said suicide bombings to defend Islam from enemies could never/rarely be justified while 7% said it was often/sometimes. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, 96% said it was never/rarely justified while 3% said often/sometimes. In Albania, 93% said it was never/rarely justified while 6% said often/sometimes. In Russia, 90% said never/rarely while 4% said often/sometimes. In Kosovo, 82% said it was never/rarely justified while 11% said often/sometimes. In Azerbaijan, 96% said it was never/rarely while 1% said often/sometimes. In Tajikistan, 85% said never/rarely while 3% said often/sometimes. In Kazakhstan, 95% said never/rarely while 2% said often/sometimes. In Kyrygztsan, 82% said never/rarely while 10% said often/sometimes. In Afghanistan, 58% said never/rarely and 39% often/sometimes. In Morocco, 74% said never/sometimes and 9% said often/sometimes.[53]
> 
> A 2014 Pew poll showed that support for suicide bombings had fallen to a great degree in Muslim-majority nations over the last decade:[54]
> 
> 
> (46 vs 45) In Lebanon, 45% it could never justified, 25% rarely and 29% said often/sometimes.
> (59 vs 38) In Egypt, 38% said it could never be justified, 35% rarely while 24% said often/sometimes.
> (29 vs 58) In Turkey, 58% said never, 11% rarely while 18% said often/sometimes.
> (44 vs 55) In Jordan, 55% said never, 29% rarely while 15% said often/sometimes.
> (8 vs 90) In Tunisia, 90% said never, 3% rarely while 5% said often/sometimes.
> (61 vs 33) In Bangladesh, 33% said never, 14% rarely and 47% said often/sometimes.
> (33 vs 60) In Malaysia, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 18% often/sometimes.
> (22 vs 76) In Indonesia, 76% said never, 13% rarely and 9% often/sometimes.
> (7 vs 83) In Pakistan, 83% said never, 4% rarely and 3% often/sometimes.
> (34 vs 60) In Nigeria, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 19% often/sometimes.
> (31 vs 56) In Senegal, 56% said never, 16% rarely and 15% often/sometimes.
> In mostly non-Muslim nations:
> 
> 
> (45 vs 50) In Tanzania, 50% said never, 19% said rarely and 26% said often/sometimes.
> (46 vs 48) In Israel, 48% said never, 30% rarely and 16% said often/sometimes.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's examine:
> 
> 
> Islam is the 2nd largest religious group in the world, there're 1.8 billion Muslims .
> An average of 70% against and 30% in support for suicide bombing
> That's 540 million Muslims worldwide who support suicide bombings.
> 
> How many people are there in whole of US?
> Now what is interesting is that after going through a strict system of screening at immigration, and life in a free society, the support for suicide bombing in the US among the Muslim community reduced only by 10%.
> 
> 
> This extensive PEW poll shows the most fundamentalist Muslim societies and their views on enforcement of Sharia, honor killings, and capital punishment for converting out of Islam:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pew research: The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society
> 
> The Arabs in Gaza and Judea are among the most fundamentalist Islamists.
> Without any correlation to recent history of conquests and defeats, Muslim or non-Muslim rule.
> 
> It also "just" happens, that the Palestinian cause is the fulfillment of the imperialist goal of an exclusive Muslim domination over the entire middle east.
> 
> To sum it up:
> 
> Israelis know full well who they're dealing with, without the need for Pew polls.
> Media coverage for Islamist apologists won't change the facts, neither you shoveling their PC bs about the "poor peaceful" 70% who're the victims for being associated with the 30% of the savages in their community, but that still prevents nothing for the later.
> 
> Still, the only effective preventive force against the Islamist ideology is reached in an environment of a non-Muslim rule. Either through successful military campaign and correct security measures, or reformation of  their faith, only in close proximity to other functional societies who's culture challenges their core religious tenants.
> 
> Only external, or non-Muslim force and environment are effective, the 70% are at large passive and ineffective in preventing the spread of the Islamist ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Media coverage is largely anti-Islam.
> 
> One thing of note - what puts a leash on extremism is secular societies and governments - not the individual faith.  When government and religion are intermixed it never ends well for minority religions.  The issue is not one of "non-Muslim" rule - it is NO religious rule.  A secular government, that protects all religious freedom and rights.  There is no society where religion is intertwined with government that does not in some way oppress (or worse) religious minorities.
Click to expand...


Media is not the problem,
but the fact that the 70% are largely passive against Islamism.

The assumption that "it is NO religious rule" doesn't stand the test of reality.
What will the Muslims of China say? What will the Christians of USSR say?
Fundamentalist secular regimes are devastating to all religions and minorities - as well as the majority.

While in spite the "Separation of State and Church" that is now become a hollowed sound byte, vast majority of western countries are actually religious on one level or another, each having their national churches and clear religious symbolism and heritage intervened with the state and legal system , even the US - they are free societies that provide Muslim immigrants more freedom than their countries.

Christian countries provide more freedom and quality of life to Muslims than Muslim countries. The Jewish country provides more freedom and quality of life than any of the surrounding Muslim countries, and the only one where the Christian community actually grows.

And concluding with your first comment - in all of the examples above largely the extremists hold public positions representing the Muslim community, and initiate most organization.

The media in this context is actually the victim of Islamism,
it provides dialogue that is lacking in much of the Muslim world, but is mainly used by the extremists to promote their agenda, and profit from the so called "moderates" who are busy with apologetics and PC culture to shift the blame.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
> The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.
> 
> The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.
> 
> Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.
> 
> With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
> and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.
> 
> Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!  Thank you.  (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion? Say the Jaines for one.  Samaritins.  And others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism.  Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism.  There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps but both Christianity (why do you call it Xtian?) and Islam have at their base the Old Testament of the Jews which...unfortunately also contains some pretty harsh stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As examples (in no particular order):
> 
> grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious - can you describe what you mean here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heaven/hell vs. the world to come
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the idea of heaven and hell is seriously messed up - especialy the idea that you will suffer in torment forever for the acts of one lifetime which is an atom in the bucket of forever.  I kind of understand where it came from...Christianity evolved as a religion of slavery and oppression, a way for poor people in a harsh life to believe there is something better out there if they just hang in there until they die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reward/punishment vs. repair of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have me there...the idea that this world is less important than the next has always disturbed me...it implies we don't have to worry so much about what we do to this world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the purpose of sacrifice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you expand on that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That one is a bit complicated - assuming I understand what you are saying.  Christianity is mixed with it's many different sects and it's possible I am getting it all wrong.  There are those that believe that good works are part of salvation and those believe salvation requires only belief.  Is that what you are talking of?  Please expand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To bring it back to why this matters.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than *if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting Shusha...not sure if I have said this but I'm not religious, not atheist either but one primary reason is what you just stated above.  It's not something I can live with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway?  And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IF it works that way...and I'm not sure it does in Christian or Islamic theology as developed by it's founders.
> 
> I think often about what Ghandi supposedly said (but sadly...actually never did but still a good quote)
> _I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ._
> 
> Same with Islam.  There is what the prophets actually (supposedly) said and what the many interpreters and followers afterwards said and did.
Click to expand...


Some Jews don't spell out Christianity in full, and write an X instead, either because it is a heretic faith (because of the trinity concept), or because so many Jews were killed over the centuries because of that faith.  As you can see, I personally don't subscibe to that idea.  Other ppl write it that way, merely as shorthand.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Haaretz: 5.5 Million Palestinians 'Fled Their Native Lands'


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are spread across the world.  The Jewish religion, though, very strongly resides with the Jewish people.  Its a religion of a singular people.  Thus, not a world religion.  Very different from Xtianity and Islam which are world religions precisely because they no longer reside within only one culture.
Click to expand...

So world religions would be Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are spread across the world.  The Jewish religion, though, very strongly resides with the Jewish people.  Its a religion of a singular people.  Thus, not a world religion.  Very different from Xtianity and Islam which are world religions precisely because they no longer reside within only one culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So world religions would be Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism?
Click to expand...


Hinduism, as far as I know, is still culturally cohesive. 

But I’ll give you Buddhism. Also Baha’i.


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's.  They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation.  Not sure about other faiths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
> 2.  I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together.  The ideology is very different in each.
> 3.  There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
> 4.  You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
> 5.  You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
> The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.
> 
> The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.
> 
> Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.
> 
> With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
> and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.
> 
> Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!  Thank you.  (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion? Say the Jaines for one.  Samaritins.  And others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism.  Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism.  There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps but both Christianity (why do you call it Xtian?) and Islam have at their base the Old Testament of the Jews which...unfortunately also contains some pretty harsh stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As examples (in no particular order):
> 
> grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious - can you describe what you mean here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heaven/hell vs. the world to come
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the idea of heaven and hell is seriously messed up - especialy the idea that you will suffer in torment forever for the acts of one lifetime which is an atom in the bucket of forever.  I kind of understand where it came from...Christianity evolved as a religion of slavery and oppression, a way for poor people in a harsh life to believe there is something better out there if they just hang in there until they die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reward/punishment vs. repair of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have me there...the idea that this world is less important than the next has always disturbed me...it implies we don't have to worry so much about what we do to this world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the purpose of sacrifice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you expand on that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That one is a bit complicated - assuming I understand what you are saying.  Christianity is mixed with it's many different sects and it's possible I am getting it all wrong.  There are those that believe that good works are part of salvation and those believe salvation requires only belief.  Is that what you are talking of?  Please expand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To bring it back to why this matters.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant.  If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than *if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting Shusha...not sure if I have said this but I'm not religious, not atheist either but one primary reason is what you just stated above.  It's not something I can live with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway?  And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IF it works that way...and I'm not sure it does in Christian or Islamic theology as developed by it's founders.
> 
> I think often about what Ghandi supposedly said (but sadly...actually never did but still a good quote)
> _I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ._
> 
> Same with Islam.  There is what the prophets actually (supposedly) said and what the many interpreters and followers afterwards said and did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews don't spell out Christianity in full, and write an X instead, either because it is a heretic faith (because of the trinity concept), or because so many Jews were killed over the centuries because of that faith.  As you can see, I personally don't subscibe to that idea.  Other ppl write it that way, merely as shorthand.
Click to expand...


I use Xtian and JC to denote I reject the idea that historical personage held any sort of divinity or special status.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

This is one of those timeless topics and specific questions raised by the study of personal and individual pursuits in which the outcome is not set by the culture or society, but by the individuals themselves.  The solution is a system of inner thoughts which come together to explain the concept of something that is greater in magnitude, and set upon principles independent of the idea to be explained.

Religions and are all about the possibility of something beyond the existence of normal consciousness.  Often based on a set of beliefs, rituals and spiritual practices that transcend the stream of life and existence into the supernatural.   



Coyote said:


> So world religions would be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism?


*(COMMENT)*

Organized Religions and the Places of Worship; whether is be Stonehenge of the disorganize belief in the powers of the natural environment - through to the contemporary period of Tombs, Mosques, Cathedrals, and Churches of the monotheist period of today. 

But as time goes on, humanity tends to rely less and less on the belief in the supernatural, thaumaturgical, and wonders or miracles → moving more towards the concept that once life is extinguished, the lifeforce essence and cumulative information and knowledge once stored by that entity as volatile memory are extinguished with it with the cessation of life.

What happens after death _(cessation of life)_ is of no consequence because the entity that is composed of volatile memory, information and knowledge return to the state to a time before the entity knew of its existence.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are spread across the world.  The Jewish religion, though, very strongly resides with the Jewish people.  Its a religion of a singular people.  Thus, not a world religion.  Very different from Xtianity and Islam which are world religions precisely because they no longer reside within only one culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So world religions would be Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hinduism, as far as I know, is still culturally cohesive.
> 
> But I’ll give you Buddhism. Also Baha’i.
Click to expand...


I'd say that Judaism is a world religion because of its immense influence, despite its small numbers.  Much more so than the Baha'i religion, even if the Bahais have greater numbers.  I mean look how everyone in the world is obsessed over Israel, one of the smallest countries in the world!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep saying that, but you DO NOT cite any official forum to support that conjecture.  There is a movement to express this idea, in such a way without fact-checking.  And this same movement likes to suggest that their expression on this point in history, without any supporting document.



P F Tinmore said:


> The partition plan flopped and was never implemented. There was no territory allotted for a Jewish state.
> 
> What territory did Israel claim and how was it acquired?


*(ON THE OTHER HAND)*


			
				OFFICIAL UN PRESS RELEASE  PAL/169  17 May 1948 said:
			
		

> "The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."



You cannot openly say that it was not implemented.  That is just an uncorroborated Arab Palestinian supposition.



			
				S/766  22 May 1948  CONCERNING THE QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
			
		

> Question (b): Do you have armed forces operating in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Arabs are the majority, or outside Palestine?
> 
> Answer to Question (b): We consider the territory of Israel as a single unit with a Jewish majority. As indicated above, the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel; parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem, formerly for the most part, contained Arab majorities. These areas have, however, been mostly abandoned by their Arab population. No area outside of Palestine is under Jewish occupation but sallies beyond the frontiers of the State of Israel have occasionally been carried out by Jewish forces for imperative military reasons, and as a part of an essentially defensive plan.​Question (c) If so, on what basis do you attempt to justify such operations?
> 
> Answer to Question (c): The above operations in areas outside the State of Israel are justified on the following grounds:​
> 
> In order to repel aggression, and as part of our essentially defensive plan, to prevent these areas being used as bases for attacks against the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> In order to protect Jewish population, traffic and economic life, including the protection of those Jewish settlements outside the area of the State where, owing to the absence of any duly constituted authority and the failure to implement the guarantees and safeguards provided for under the General Assembly Plan, life and property are in imminent danger. Similar considerations apply in the absence of any international statute for the City of Jerusalem to the Jewish area of the City.
> SOURCE:  *REPLIES OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL TO SECURITY COUNCIL QUESTIONNAIRE* •


•  S/RES/69 (1949) S/1277 4 March 1949  UNSC _Recommends_ to the General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.
•  A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949  Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations.​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You keep saying that, but you DO NOT cite any official forum to support that conjecture.  There is a movement to express this idea, in such a way without fact-checking.  And this same movement likes to suggest that their expression on this point in history, without any supporting document.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The partition plan flopped and was never implemented. There was no territory allotted for a Jewish state.
> 
> What territory did Israel claim and how was it acquired?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON THE OTHER HAND)*
> 
> 
> 
> OFFICIAL UN PRESS RELEASE  PAL/169  17 May 1948 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot openly say that it was not implemented.  That is just an uncorroborated Arab Palestinian supposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/766  22 May 1948  CONCERNING THE QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question (b): Do you have armed forces operating in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Arabs are the majority, or outside Palestine?
> 
> Answer to Question (b): We consider the territory of Israel as a single unit with a Jewish majority. As indicated above, the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel; parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem, formerly for the most part, contained Arab majorities. These areas have, however, been mostly abandoned by their Arab population. No area outside of Palestine is under Jewish occupation but sallies beyond the frontiers of the State of Israel have occasionally been carried out by Jewish forces for imperative military reasons, and as a part of an essentially defensive plan.​Question (c) If so, on what basis do you attempt to justify such operations?
> 
> Answer to Question (c): The above operations in areas outside the State of Israel are justified on the following grounds:​
> 
> In order to repel aggression, and as part of our essentially defensive plan, to prevent these areas being used as bases for attacks against the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> In order to protect Jewish population, traffic and economic life, including the protection of those Jewish settlements outside the area of the State where, owing to the absence of any duly constituted authority and the failure to implement the guarantees and safeguards provided for under the General Assembly Plan, life and property are in imminent danger. Similar considerations apply in the absence of any international statute for the City of Jerusalem to the Jewish area of the City.
> SOURCE:  *REPLIES OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL TO SECURITY COUNCIL QUESTIONNAIRE* •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> •  S/RES/69 (1949) S/1277 4 March 1949  UNSC _Recommends_ to the General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.
> •  A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949  Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations.​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are ducking my question.

Here is another question for you to duck. Resolution 181 states that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will become citizens of that state.

When did that happen?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

In some cases, as it appears in this case, you are asking for me to describe the reasoning for an alternative set of events.  You know that the Arab Palestinians 



P F Tinmore said:


> You are ducking my question.


*(COMMENT)*

I did not "duck" any valid question.  None at all.

And by the way, I cannot speak for every single event _(those which happened and those which were prevented from happening)_ which each of the entities could have been involving.  

And I don't speak for the State of Israel.



P F Tinmore said:


> Here is another question for you to duck.
> Resolution 181 states that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will become citizens of that state.


*(COMMENT)*

This is one of those alternative questions.  

In February of 1948, the UN Palestine Commission began its work.  The Arab Palestinians decided NOT to participate in the actualization of self-governing institutions AND rejected the notion of a partition AND refused to participate in establishing the shape of the new governments. 



P F Tinmore said:


> When did that happen?


*(COMMENT)*

The order of operations in the establishment of the Jewish State, the Arab State and the City State, was altered when the Arab Palestinians refused to cooperate.  THUS, the Israelis were not enjoined to render assistance to the Arab Palestinians.  No obligation was incurred by the Israelis and no binding promises were made to the Arab Palestinians _(because they rejected the process from start to finish)_.

*(HOWEVER)*

In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated 711,000 Palestinian refugees existed outside Israel, with about one-quarter of the estimated *160,000 Palestinian Arabs* remaining in Israel as "internal refugees."

That suggests a portion of the Arab Palestinian people remained inside the territorial boundary; ultimately becoming citizens.

It is not likely that there is going to be a massive influx of Arab Palestinians; as a threat to the Israelis in the next three generations of Israelis.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> In some cases, as it appears in this case, you are asking for me to describe the reasoning for an alternative set of events.  You know that the Arab Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I did not "duck" any valid question.  None at all.
> 
> And by the way, I cannot speak for every single event _(those which happened and those which were prevented from happening)_ which each of the entities could have been involving.
> 
> And I don't speak for the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another question for you to duck.
> Resolution 181 states that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will become citizens of that state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is one of those alternative questions.
> 
> In February of 1948, the UN Palestine Commission began its work.  The Arab Palestinians decided NOT to participate in the actualization of self-governing institutions AND rejected the notion of a partition AND refused to participate in establishing the shape of the new governments.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The order of operations in the establishment of the Jewish State, the Arab State and the City State, was altered when the Arab Palestinians refused to cooperate.  THUS, the Israelis were not enjoined to render assistance to the Arab Palestinians.  No obligation was incurred by the Israelis and no binding promises were made to the Arab Palestinians _(because they rejected the process from start to finish)_.
> 
> *(HOWEVER)*
> 
> In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated 711,000 Palestinian refugees existed outside Israel, with about one-quarter of the estimated *160,000 Palestinian Arabs* remaining in Israel as "internal refugees."
> 
> That suggests a portion of the Arab Palestinian people remained inside the territorial boundary; ultimately becoming citizens.
> 
> It is not likely that there is going to be a massive influx of Arab Palestinians; as a threat to the Israelis in the next three generations of Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> And I don't speak for the State of Israel.


You could have fooled me.


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are Jews spread across the world - occupying many different cultures from India, to Russia, to North America, to the Middle East, to Europe...it's a world religion albeit small compared to some of the others.  What's not a world religion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are spread across the world.  The Jewish religion, though, very strongly resides with the Jewish people.  Its a religion of a singular people.  Thus, not a world religion.  Very different from Xtianity and Islam which are world religions precisely because they no longer reside within only one culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So world religions would be Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hinduism, as far as I know, is still culturally cohesive.
> 
> But I’ll give you Buddhism. Also Baha’i.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd say that Judaism is a world religion because of its immense influence, despite its small numbers.  Much more so than the Baha'i religion, even if the Bahais have greater numbers.  I mean look how everyone in the world is obsessed over Israel, one of the smallest countries in the world!
Click to expand...


I think of world religions as those that span more than one country/culture.  Certainly proselytizing religions would qualify.


----------



## Sixties Fan

UCLA students meet with a Palestinian antisemite who believes the "Protocols" myth ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

More of what you expect from Islamic terrorist misfits.

Islamic “values”. 



*It's official. It's a Palestinian "value" to murder Israeli men on their way to prayer*
Itamar Marcus  | Dec 19, 2019


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was funny. Employees of something called “Palestine Airlines” were paid salaries in spite of “Palestine Airlines” not existing.

Enjoy your flight on “Islamic Terrorist Air”. All tickets are one-way.

It’s really difficult to believe the fraud of “Pal’istanians”



The Systemic Corruption in the Palestinian Authority

Moneys are spent on non-existent entities, and here’s the best example: “salaries and raises were paid to employees of an airline company that no longer exists on the ground.” That is Palestine Airlines, about which the report says this: “The Palestinian treasury paid salaries to hundreds of employees in the ‘Palestinian Airlines,’ which is a governmental company that has a board of directors, headed by the minister of transportation. . . . The budget for this ‘company’ is included in the budget of the Ministry of Transport and Transportation with no details.” A non-existent airline—whose employees were not only paid salaries but given raises. . . .


----------



## Hollie

Noting corruption of the Emir of Mahmoud’istan is pretty much stating the obvious. That statement applies similarly to the various Islamic terrorist franchises, syndicates and welfare fraud schemes that are flush throughout the Islamic terrorist enclaves occupied by Hamas and Fatah. 





Palestinian kleptocracy: West accepts corruption, people suffer the consequences

The Abbas family’s corruption is a hot topic in the territories, but not here in the U.S.  Tareq Abbas, son of the Palestinian Authority president, is a multi-millionaire owning villas in Amman, a Beirut rooftop pad and a luxury London flat.  His older brother, Yasser, has made a fortune from, among other things, his monopoly sale of U.S.-made cigarettes in the Judea and Samaria a.k.a. the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

I think I get it, now. _Islam is the solution™️
_
A solution to creating societal dysfunction. 




Listen to a Palestinian leader

Abu Safiyeh, is a representative of the PLO's Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in the Gaza Strip.

He was arrested after he published a Facebook post criticizing Hamas corruption.

Here are some of the things he wrote that got him thrown into Palestinian prison by Hamas:

_"Fifteen years ago, Hamas raised the slogan of 'Islam is the solution' -- the solution to liberate all Palestine and not give up an inch;_

_the solution to eliminate cronyism and corruption;_

_the solution to bring economic and social security;_

_the solution to a happy and enjoyable life._

_Hamas came to power through deception and after having misled the people. Now, there is rampant corruption [under Hamas]. The corruption is in all institutions, including the judiciary and the police. Today, the corruption is organized and managed by Hamas._

_The corruption is at the top of the pyramid. It is the corruption of politics, the corruption in the administration, the corruption in employment, the corruption in relief aid._


----------



## Hollie

Wow. Never saw that one comin’. 




The Palestinians’ Worst Enemy Is Their Own Leaders: Corruption and repressive systems – Herland Report - Herland Report|Hanne

Once in a very rare while, Western journalists address the massive problem in the Middle East pertaining to corruption and repression of free speech in the Arab world.

This week, Human Rights Watch released a report on Gaza leaders and the report shows widespread abuse.  The two-year investigation included interviews with nearly 150 people, many of them ex-detainees.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestinian" Arab gives Oxford students a pro-Israel message


----------



## Hollie

Islamic gee-had.  

Since 632 CE





According to the statistics, of thousands of Palestinians injured during the weekly protests at the border, the casualties are mainly youths who will, in the best-case scenario, limp for the rest of their lives, or worse, lose one of their feet. 




Palestinian medics evacuating a youth wounded during clashes with IDF troops on the Gaza border (Photo: AFP)


----------



## Hollie

The warped Islamic psyche. Jew killing is a religious duty but retaliatory attacks are ‘Israeli 'extremism.'

This kind of typical islamo-bluster continues until the Israeli defensive operations perform some re-shaping of the islamo-landscape. 
*


Hamas: Escalate 'battle' against Jews in Judea and Samaria*
Terror group calls for attacks on Israeli civilians, says any retaliatory attacks are 'dangerous escalation,' show Israeli 'extremism.'

Hamas: Escalate 'battle' against Jews in Judea and Samaria

Dalit Halevi,  21/12/19 23:28


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> Islamic gee-had.
> 
> Since 632 CE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the statistics, of thousands of Palestinians injured during the weekly protests at the border, the casualties are mainly youths who will, in the best-case scenario, limp for the rest of their lives, or worse, lose one of their feet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian medics evacuating a youth wounded during clashes with IDF troops on the Gaza border (Photo: AFP)



Of course Israel will be blamed for their injuries, even though Palestinians deliberately put their children in harm's way.


----------



## Hollie

32 years of the bastard stepchild of the Muslim Brotherhood. Just another franchise of Islamic terrorist thieves, murderers and retrogrades. 




{Originally posted to the _Gatestone Institute_website}

Hamas, Thirty-Two Years Later

The Palestinian Hamas movement this week celebrated its 32nd anniversary by remindingeveryone of its main goal: the destruction of Israel. This message is proof that Hamas has not – and will not – change its charter, originally published in 1988. It is also a powerful message to those who may have deluded themselves into believing that Hamas has transformed into a non-violent Palestinian faction.


----------



## Hollie

If Hamas is not offering bonus dollars to the vacant minded types they stack at the border gee-had, this should be a matter for, you know, the UN Human Rights Commission. 



50 Palestinian protesters have been blinded by shots to the eye at Gaza fence protests – Mondoweiss


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> If Hamas is not offering bonus dollars to the vacant minded types they stack at the border gee-had, this should be a matter for, you know, the UN Human Rights Commission.
> 
> 
> 
> 50 Palestinian protesters have been blinded by shots to the eye at Gaza fence protests – Mondoweiss



Even though Hamas is putting their own ppl in harm's way, Israel will get blamed for blinding them.  So why are you posting this?


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Hamas is not offering bonus dollars to the vacant minded types they stack at the border gee-had, this should be a matter for, you know, the UN Human Rights Commission.
> 
> 
> 
> 50 Palestinian protesters have been blinded by shots to the eye at Gaza fence protests – Mondoweiss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though Hamas is putting their own ppl in harm's way, Israel will get blamed for blinding them.  So why are you posting this?
Click to expand...


The reality is, as you dscribed; Hamas is exploiting children and teenagers by glorifying islamic terrorism. 

Those who blame the Israeli military for protecting Israeli citizens are  more often than not, our friend who offers nothing but "funny" while flailing his Pom Poms for islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

It's what one would expect from angry, self-hating islamic terrorist misfits.

It's all about hate with angry islamics. They hate themselves, they hate each other and they hate the miserable existence they create for themselves.



Palestinian Media Watch

*The Palestinian Santa: Victim, Fighter and even evil Trump*
Itamar Marcus  | Dec 23, 2019


The PA loves to use the image of Santa Claus in its cartoons around Christmas to bolster its policy of demonizing Israel and Israelis.

Over the years the Palestinian Santa has been murdered by Israeli soldiers, fought Israeli soldiers, been frustrated as he was prevented from helping Palestinians, and was even an evil Santa giving gifts to Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA loves to use the image of Santa Claus in its cartoons around Christmas to bolster its policy of demonizing Israel and Israelis. 

Over the years the Palestinian Santa has been murdered by Israeli soldiers, fought Israeli soldiers, been frustrated as he was prevented from helping Palestinians, and was even an evil Santa giving gifts to Israel.




*Santa as Victim: *

This year’s Santa is given the most important part of the Palestinian identity – the victim. 

Santa is a Palestinian refugee in Gaza wearing the “key of return”, whose hands are tied by the Star of David. Israel/Jews are preventing him from celebrating in Bethlehem. The cartoon appeared on the official Facebook page of Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah movement. [Official Fatah Facebook page, Dec. 20, 2019]

_*The following are some of the Palestinian Santa’s who have appeared in recent years:*_

(full article online)

The Palestinian Santa: Victim, Fighter and even evil Trump | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

The term "smarmy" comes to mind. 



Why Rashida Tlaib's Chanukah Message Was Particularly Ridiculous


*Why Rashida Tlaib’s Chanukah Message Was Particularly Ridiculous*
By
David Lange
 -
December 20, 2019
3639
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib has wished the “good” Jews (i.e. those who support her wish for the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel) a happy Chanukah.

As I keep reminding antisemites denying Jewish history, Chanukah celebrates the rededication of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem over 2000 years ago. So it is ridiculous for Talib to be wishing any Jew a happy Chanukah while in the same breath speak about occupation of “Falastin.”


----------



## Hollie

The islamo-roundup is underway. 

Looks like some “ethnic cleansing”™️ going on as Mahmoud wants to root out the Iranian occupation forces (Hamas). 








ARTICLE SUMMARY
The arrest campaign targeting Hamas leaders and members in the West Bank has intensified in recent weeks, suggesting an attempt by the PA to intimidate the movement from participating in the upcoming elections.

Since mid-December, the West Bank has been the target of an increased arrest campaign led by Israeli and Palestinian security forces against dozens of Hamas members and leaders. The campaign is ongoing, and the number of arrests has not been specified. On Dec. 12 and Dec. 16, Israel carried out wide arrests in Nablus, Tulkarm, Ramallah, al-Bireh, Hebron and Jericho that included member of the Palestinian Legislative Council Mohammad al-Natsheh, former Minister of Local Governance Issa al-Jaabari, Hamas leader Abdul Khaleq al-Natsheh, several former detainees and Shada Hasan, a student at Birzeit University.



Read more: Israeli-PA coordinated arrest campaign against Hamas in West Bank


----------



## Hollie

Mo’ money for Abu.

Qatar is apparently going to resume bringing suitcases of cash into the Islamic terrorist enclaves. Both Fatah and Hamas will be looking forward to their welfare entitlement.


----------



## Hollie

There is so often a seedy, sleazy underbelly to the Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians. 





Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit

A pro-Palestinian charity allegedly funneled money to Hamas, a Palestinian terror group controlling the Gaza strip, terror victims claimed in an unprecedented lawsuit filed this week in Washington, D.C..


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists with Israeli citizenship. 

Yeah, that. 



Terrorists with Israeli citizenship owe millions of shekels in back taxes for the salaries they have received from the PA, since being arrested for terror

Terrorists with Israeli citizenship owe millions of shekels in back taxes for the salaries they have received from the PA | PMW Analysis


Since its establishment, the PA has been paying monthly salaries to the terrorists imprisoned in Israel’s prisons
Terrorists who are Israeli citizens or residents of Jerusalem receive a special bonus
The Israeli Arab terrorists have never paid income tax on these monthly salaries
PMW calculated salaries of 8 terrorist murderers who currently receive net monthly salaries of (at least) $3,577 (12,500 Israeli shekels), and another 6 terrorist murderers who receive net monthly salaries of (at least) $3,004 (10,500 Israeli shekels). These terrorists alone have received a total of approximately $5.72 million (20 million Israeli shekels) from the PA as a reward for the murder of Israelis, and have not paid taxes.
In total the terrorists who are Israeli citizens owe millions of dollars in back taxes to the Israeli government


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There is so often a seedy, sleazy underbelly to the Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> A pro-Palestinian charity allegedly funneled money to Hamas, a Palestinian terror group controlling the Gaza strip, terror victims claimed in an unprecedented lawsuit filed this week in Washington, D.C..


 Grasping at straws.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is so often a seedy, sleazy underbelly to the Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> A pro-Palestinian charity allegedly funneled money to Hamas, a Palestinian terror group controlling the Gaza strip, terror victims claimed in an unprecedented lawsuit filed this week in Washington, D.C..
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
Click to expand...




 Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories


----------



## Hollie

From 2009: 
UN halts aid into Gaza after 'Hamas steals' thousands of tonnes of aid


From 2019:
Growing calls to defund UNRWA, after scathing report


Decades of the planet funding islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is so often a seedy, sleazy underbelly to the Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> A pro-Palestinian charity allegedly funneled money to Hamas, a Palestinian terror group controlling the Gaza strip, terror victims claimed in an unprecedented lawsuit filed this week in Washington, D.C..
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories
Click to expand...

What conspiracy?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is so often a seedy, sleazy underbelly to the Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Palestinian charity funneled money to Hamas, terror victims allege in lawsuit
> 
> A pro-Palestinian charity allegedly funneled money to Hamas, a Palestinian terror group controlling the Gaza strip, terror victims claimed in an unprecedented lawsuit filed this week in Washington, D.C..
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What conspiracy?
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories


----------



## Hollie

I find this shocking, *Shocking* I tell ya'. 

Amidst the promotion and encouragement of gee-had directed at the vacant minded islamo-yutes, Field Marshal Gee-had has apparently decided that sending children to the border riots is best done from a safe hiding place. 



Gaza Sources: Hamas Leader Sinwar in Hiding | Hamodia.com

Hamas terror leader Yahya Sinwar has not been seen in public in recent weeks – and that is because he is in hiding, Channel 12 quoted Gaza sources as saying Tuesday. “Ever since the elimination of [top Islamic Jihad terrorist] Abu-Alata, Sinwar has not been seen,” the sources said. “He doesn’t make speeches, doesn’t attend rallies, he has disappeared. Rumors are that he is in a bunker, fearing that Israel may target him too.”


----------



## Hollie

An apparent, sobering admission on the part of Hamas that its tactics of riots at the border gee-had have failed to produce anything but dead and injured sacrificial muhammuds. 



Hamas changing strategies, reducing marches to low boil - intel center

In a report on Monday, the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center stated that Hamas has already appeared to lower the flames of the border conflict in recent weeks, including with a flurry of statements in the Arab media that a retooling is in progress.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslim youth finally get punished for mistreating the Temple Mount


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Israeli Citizens, but receive salaries from the PA. Owe taxes to Israel.  What to do?  Cut the payments from the PA? Send them to live under the PA? ]


*Since its establishment, the PA has been paying monthly salaries to the terrorists imprisoned in Israel’s prisons*
*Terrorists who are Israeli citizens or residents of Jerusalem receive a special bonus*
*The Israeli Arab terrorists have never paid income tax on these monthly salaries*
*PMW calculated salaries of 8 terrorist murderers who currently receive net monthly salaries of (at least) $3,577 (12,500 Israeli shekels), and another 6 terrorist murderers who receive net monthly salaries of (at least) $3,004 (10,500 Israeli shekels). These terrorists alone have received a total of approximately $5.72 million (20 million Israeli shekels) from the PA as a reward for the murder of Israelis, and have not paid taxes.*
*In total the terrorists who are Israeli citizens owe millions of dollars in back taxes to the Israeli government*

(full article online)

Terrorists with Israeli citizenship owe millions of shekels in back taxes for the salaries they have received from the PA | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week I reported that the Supreme Fatwa Council, which is part of the Palestinian government, issued a statement opposing the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) as a violation of Islamic Sharia law.

The PLO acceded to CEDAW without any reservations in 2014 when they were in a frenzy to sign every UN convention they could find to pretend to be a real state. As I reported, they never actually enacted any laws to provide for equal treatment of women. Their signing CEDAW and the other conventions was a complete sham.

After the Fatwa Council issued its statement against equal rights for women, do you think there was a backlash by Palestinian feminists? Of course not. On the contrary!

A group of tribes, under the umbrella of the Supreme Commission for Tribal Affairs for the southern governorates, affirmed that any agreement that contradicts what Allah has prescribed will not be accepted by Palestinian society. (The photo of the meeting does not show any women.)

"The Islamic Sharia is above the law, and above any political commitment, or any commitment to international laws or treaties," the commission said in a statement.

(full article online)

Every feminist and "rights activist"  for "Palestine" is a hypocrite. Every damn one of them. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

From the politico-religious ideology that brought you women in Shame Sacks.  




Veiled women make Santa dolls in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip

Veiled women make Santa dolls in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip

Many of the women are barred by cultural norms from leaving their village; their work is an opportunity to leave the house, ‘showcase their abilities’ 
24 December 2019, 10:22 pm  0


----------



## Hollie

Poor Sinwar. For all his blustering about others needing to wage the Islamist gee-had, he is quite the “do as I say, not as I do” kind of wannabe.





Gaza Sources: Hamas Leader Sinwar in Hiding | Hamodia.com

Hamas terror leader Yahya Sinwar has not been seen in public in recent weeks – and that is because he is in hiding, Channel 12 quoted Gaza sources as saying Tuesday. “Ever since the elimination of [top Islamic Jihad terrorist] Abu-Alata, Sinwar has not been seen,” the sources said. “He doesn’t make speeches, doesn’t attend rallies, he has disappeared. Rumors are that he is in a bunker, fearing that Israel may target him too.”


----------



## Hollie

Islamism. It’s the gee-had, stupid.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> From the politico-religious ideology that brought you women in Shame Sacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Veiled women make Santa dolls in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip
> 
> Veiled women make Santa dolls in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip
> 
> Many of the women are barred by cultural norms from leaving their village; their work is an opportunity to leave the house, ‘showcase their abilities’
> 24 December 2019, 10:22 pm  0



Tinmore is happy to see women in sacks.


----------



## Hollie

Hey! Keep the laughter to a minimum. 




PA Hosts International Conference on Combating Corruption

The Palestinian Authority (PA) earlier this month hosted an international conference on the fight against corruption, attended by PA head Mahmoud Abbas, ministers, judges, heads of the PA security forces, as well as representatives from Arab states, European governments, the United Nations and human rights institutions and civil society organizations.



Hamas will soon host a conference on combating Islamic terrorism.

Iran will host a conference on combating Antisemitism.


----------



## Hollie

To keep it brief, it’s difficult to imagine the UN has any will or motivation to confront Islamic terrorists and their abuse of children’s human rights. 



Report to U.N. urges rights for Palestinian, Israeli children subjected to Hamas abuse

In a legal brief filed with the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child shortly before the one-year anniversary of the Palestinian “March of Return” on March 30, the independent human-rights group U.N. Watch urged that the Palestinian Authority be held to account for violating children’s rights, alleging that it has “failed to protect both Palestinian and Israeli children in armed conflict.”


----------



## Hollie

In the Gaza Strip, 97 percent of freshwater is unsuitable for human consumption







In the mini-caliphate of Gaza, there’s only very limited funds available for potable water after the Islamic terrorist franchises spend their welfare money on weapons, ammunition and deposits to their personal bank accounts.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> In the Gaza Strip, 97 percent of freshwater is unsuitable for human consumption
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the mini-caliphate of Gaza, there’s only very limited funds available for potable water after the Islamic terrorist franchises spend their welfare money on weapons, ammunition and deposits to their personal bank accounts.



Terror tunnels and rockets aren't cheap.


----------



## Hollie

Pay up, sucka’

Yeah. Islamic terrorists who are IsraelI citizens. 


Two days ago PMW reported that the salaries that Israeli-Arab terrorist prisoners receive from the Palestinian Authority are illegal under Israeli law. In addition, PMW noted that as Israeli citizens, the terrorists should also have been paying income tax on their monthly salaries.

PMW concluded: “*The money has been paid and is paid to the terrorists must be seized relying on the rules regarding tax evasion and anti-terror financing laws*.”  

This morning, Israel’s Minister of Defense, Naftali Bennett, announced that he was doing just that. 

The following is a Hebrew copy of the order released by the Ministry of Defense, with translation of the visible text:






“*Administrative Seizure Order (S.O. – 56/19)* War on Terror Law, 5776-2016 

"[  ] according to clauses 56(b)(2) and 56(d) of the War on Terror Law, 5776-2016 [  ], and after I have become convinced that the following specified  sums that were received by [] from the Palestinian Authority (henceforth – the money"), are money that was obtained as payment for committing a serious crime of terror or that were designated as payment or reward as stated, or [  ] for the committing a serious crime of terror; *I hereby order the temporary seizure of the money [  ] their value, and their transfer to the Forfeiture Unit of the General Trustee*: [Followed by a list of the names the Israeli Arab terrorists]."


----------



## Hollie

Campaign funds on the other hand call for less ethical ideological preaching.



Ethics panel extends probe; report says Tlaib likely misused campaign funds


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> View attachment 296653
> 
> 
> Campaign funds on the other hand call for less ethical ideological preaching.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics panel extends probe; report says Tlaib likely misused campaign funds







We should discuss freedom of speech in Muslim countries.


----------



## Hollie

Just a gentle reminder to the Islamic terrorists. 


i24NEWS








Israeli jets braved stormy weather to launch overnight retaliation strikes against targets in Gaza


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's the logo for Fatah's 55th anniversary being celebrated on January 1:




Look at the map and see exactly how much Fatah wants to live side by side with Israel.

As we point out every year, January 1 is not the anniversary of Fatah's founding. That happened in 1959 according to Wikipedia, possibly a few years earlier.

No, it is the 55th anniversary of its first terror attack, an attempt to sabotage Israel's National Water Carrier.

(full article online)

Fatah set to celebrate 55 years since its first terror attack (not its founding) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Terrorist Border Riot Announcement!
*
Mark your calendars, accordingly.




Israel shrugs at Hamas saying it will cancel Weekly Gaza riots - Analysis

Hamas announced Thursday that it was suspending its weekly rioting along the Gaza border fence for three months, and that when these “protests” resume in March, they will be monthly, not weekly occurrences.

And the collective Israeli response was... a yawn.


----------



## Hollie

Emir Khaled is back - and he wants his Emir’ship returned.

Strange that the players in Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates never fade away. They just get recycled. 

So, nothing changes in the realm of the islamic terrorist enclave known as Gaza’istan. The same Islamic terrorists who ruled 20 years ago will replace the Islamic terrorists who rule now. 

The UNRWA welfare fraud and its ability to make billionaires out of mere pedestrian Islamic terrorists is too good to pass up.  




Khaled Mashaal set to make Hamas leadership comeback, backed by Qatar

Former Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal looks set to make a return to the leadership role, KAN News has reported. 

Mashaal took charge of Hamas in 1996 and stayed in the leadership role for over twenty years, relinquishing the role in 2017, whereupon he scaled down his public appearances. 

However, with official elections for Hamas leadership set to take place in the latter half of 2020, Mashaal has recently begun to resurface in the public eye. According to KAN, it is believed that the appearances are in preparation for Mashaal announcing a leadership bid.


----------



## Hollie

*Hamas explosives expert attempts to infiltrate into Israel by exploiting a humanitarian permit*
*03 Jul 2019*

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolic...oiting-a-humanitarian-permit-3-July-2019.aspx


Exploiting the humanitarian permit he had received to enter Israel, Fadi Abu al-Sabah joined up with elements in Hebron in order to advance terrorist activities and carry out his mission.


----------



## Hollie

Tagged and (islamically) bagged. 



ISA arrests Israeli Arab suspected of joining the Jabat al-Nusra terrorist group in Syria
02 Jun 2019

The suspect was detained for investigation upon her return to Israel after having spent approximately one year with Jabat al-Nusra in Syria. It was learned that she had joined the extremist terrorist group out of a desire to become a martyr.

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolic...ning-Jabat-al-Nusra-in-Syria-2-June-2019.aspx


----------



## Hollie

The Religion of Peace Retrogression.




 
Copyright: MFA
(Communicated by the Government Press Office)


----------



## Hollie

1 Hamas tunnel = 350 truckloads of building supplies
Copyright: IDF Spokesperson




The legacy of Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal'istanians. Waste, fraud amd mismanagement.


----------



## Hollie

Stating the obvious:

How long should attacks against Jews in Israel be viewed as ‘normal’?

The article goes on to make another obvious conclusion:

"_Such attacks would not be allowed against any other people or group with impunity. So, why should Jews be viewed any differently? Instead of seeing these regular, unprovoked attacks as normal, they should be viewed as cowardly and abnormal—and evil_."


I don't know of any other location on the planet where islamic terrorists are rewarded with a dedicated, UN funded welfare agency and a willngness on the part of many nations to provide financial support to an islamic terrorist / crime syndicate.


----------



## Hollie

As conspiracy theorists go, the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves “Palestinians” are among the most prolific.




Hamas: Israel using humanitarian aid to acquire agents

Tawfiq Abu Naim, the Director-General of Gaza's Interior National Security Ministry, blamed Israel for using Gaza residents' humanitarian needs for medical aid, trips abroad, and education to obtain security information from them.

Abu Naim said his office is working to foil Israeli activities, and that he has made significant achievements, proven by a small number of incidents of cooperation with the "occupation”


----------



## Hollie

Hamas admits another failure of its mini-caliphate. 


Hamas Has Lost Its Mojo in Gaza

Talk about being obtuse. The folks at The Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas propaganda outfit operating as a non-profit organization here in the US, is trying to put the best possible spin on the collapse of the “Great March of Return” protests that have petered out after almost two years of failure.

No, it’s not unclear. It’s not unclear at all. Hamas lost. Big time.

More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots at the border between Israel and Gaza, with little effect on US policy or public opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hamas admits another failure of its mini-caliphate.
> 
> 
> Hamas Has Lost Its Mojo in Gaza
> 
> Talk about being obtuse. The folks at The Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas propaganda outfit operating as a non-profit organization here in the US, is trying to put the best possible spin on the collapse of the “Great March of Return” protests that have petered out after almost two years of failure.
> 
> No, it’s not unclear. It’s not unclear at all. Hamas lost. Big time.
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots at the border between Israel and Gaza, with little effect on US policy or public opinion.





Hollie said:


> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots


Do you mean that Israel has killed more than three hundred unarmed civilians?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas admits another failure of its mini-caliphate.
> 
> 
> Hamas Has Lost Its Mojo in Gaza
> 
> Talk about being obtuse. The folks at The Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas propaganda outfit operating as a non-profit organization here in the US, is trying to put the best possible spin on the collapse of the “Great March of Return” protests that have petered out after almost two years of failure.
> 
> No, it’s not unclear. It’s not unclear at all. Hamas lost. Big time.
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots at the border between Israel and Gaza, with little effect on US policy or public opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean that Israel has killed more than three hundred unarmed civilians?
Click to expand...


They're trying to break thru the fence to kill Israelis.  They're armed with machetes, knives and molotov cocktails.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas admits another failure of its mini-caliphate.
> 
> 
> Hamas Has Lost Its Mojo in Gaza
> 
> Talk about being obtuse. The folks at The Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas propaganda outfit operating as a non-profit organization here in the US, is trying to put the best possible spin on the collapse of the “Great March of Return” protests that have petered out after almost two years of failure.
> 
> No, it’s not unclear. It’s not unclear at all. Hamas lost. Big time.
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots at the border between Israel and Gaza, with little effect on US policy or public opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean that Israel has killed more than three hundred unarmed civilians?
Click to expand...


Hurt feelings?

Islamic terrorists with weapons are not unarmed civilians. I would suggest that that you pay attention to context. 

Too bad about your hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic concept of _Hudna_ can mean nothing more than a pause in the gee-had as a time to re-equip and re-arm. These Hudna agreements with Hamas have come and gone before. The Iranian Mullocrats are still funding PIJ and the Hamas Charter is still in force.

I just don’t see this latest Hudna lasting for more than a few months before  Iran orders PIJ to attack Israel or the more gee-had prone in Hamas feel a need to generate some islamo-street cred. 


Security cabinet said set to review proposed long-term truce with Hamas in Gaza

Israel will reportedly ease restrictions on Strip while terror group will ensure calm; Hamas denies report; Bennett to bring for approval further cuts to PA over terror stipends


----------



## Hollie

I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.





EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections


----------



## Hollie

Taking the profit margin out of the Islamic terrorist gee-had.






http://english.wafa.ps/page.aspx?id...GrrskSHOgJ5B3ZJjSIbJve1KGRMwNrFeV1b94wRwit-UQ

RAMALLAH, Sunday, December 29, 2019 (WAFA) – Palestinian Arabic dailies focused today on reports circulated across the Israeli media, that the Israeli government is going to freeze $43 million from the tax revenues it collects on behalf of the Palestinians, the amount the Palestinian government pays monthly to the families of those killed by Israeli forces.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections


If the Palestinians were able to hold national elections and abide by the outcome it would add some credibility to the claim that there really is  a state of Palestine and not just a collection of terrorist gangs.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections



Any improvement for the better is OK.


----------



## toomuchtime_

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any improvement for the better is OK.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily for Israel.  At present, with the Palestinians so divided, it is impossible to take the "two state solution" seriously, but if the Palestinians were united into an effective single political entity, it would be easier for Israel's enemies to argue the time had come to create a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria.


----------



## Hollie

toomuchtime_ said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections
> 
> 
> 
> If the Palestinians were able to hold national elections and abide by the outcome it would add some credibility to the claim that there really is  a state of Palestine and not just a collection of terrorist gangs.
Click to expand...


I agree with your assessment. 

However, the two competing factions have competing interests that have caused them to wage a very messy civil war in the not so distant past. It still appears that the early candidates from both syndicates are the same gee-had screeching / Jew hating hacks who have been the darlings of the Pal’istanians for decades. 

I’ll also note that actions speak with the utmost clarity. The border riots are still orchestrated by Hamas; it was only two days ago that a rocket was fired at Israel; the Hamas charter has never been dismissed by Hamas; Abbas is still paying killers and their families who murder Israelis and I see no real indication that the loser of any Hamas vs. Fatah elections will have any need or desire to relinquish their party affiliation.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections
> 
> 
> 
> If the Palestinians were able to hold national elections and abide by the outcome it would add some credibility to the claim that there really is  a state of Palestine and not just a collection of terrorist gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with your assessment.
> 
> However, the two competing factions have competing interests that have caused them to wage a very messy civil war in the not so distant past. It still appears that the early candidates from both syndicates are the same gee-had screeching / Jew hating hacks who have been the darlings of the Pal’istanians for decades.
> 
> I’ll also note that actions speak with the utmost clarity. The border riots are still orchestrated by Hamas; it was only two days ago that a rocket was fired at Israel; the Hamas charter has never been dismissed by Hamas; Abbas is still paying killers and their families who murder Israelis and I see no real indication that the loser of any Hamas vs. Fatah elections will have any need or desire to relinquish their party affiliation.
Click to expand...

I agree completely.  I was suggesting a reason why the Europeans are pushing the Palestinians to hold elections.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toomuchtime_ said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections
> 
> 
> 
> If the Palestinians were able to hold national elections and abide by the outcome it would add some credibility to the claim that there really is  a state of Palestine and not just a collection of terrorist gangs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with your assessment.
> 
> However, the two competing factions have competing interests that have caused them to wage a very messy civil war in the not so distant past. It still appears that the early candidates from both syndicates are the same gee-had screeching / Jew hating hacks who have been the darlings of the Pal’istanians for decades.
> 
> I’ll also note that actions speak with the utmost clarity. The border riots are still orchestrated by Hamas; it was only two days ago that a rocket was fired at Israel; the Hamas charter has never been dismissed by Hamas; Abbas is still paying killers and their families who murder Israelis and I see no real indication that the loser of any Hamas vs. Fatah elections will have any need or desire to relinquish their party affiliation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree completely.  I was suggesting a reason why the Europeans are pushing the Palestinians to hold elections.
Click to expand...


The Europeans think the Arabs are normal ppl.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas admits another failure of its mini-caliphate.
> 
> 
> Hamas Has Lost Its Mojo in Gaza
> 
> Talk about being obtuse. The folks at The Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas propaganda outfit operating as a non-profit organization here in the US, is trying to put the best possible spin on the collapse of the “Great March of Return” protests that have petered out after almost two years of failure.
> 
> No, it’s not unclear. It’s not unclear at all. Hamas lost. Big time.
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots at the border between Israel and Gaza, with little effect on US policy or public opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean that Israel has killed more than three hundred unarmed civilians?
Click to expand...


Suddenly killing unarmed civilians is bad? Don't tell the Palestinians, that's what they live for...…..


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas admits another failure of its mini-caliphate.
> 
> 
> Hamas Has Lost Its Mojo in Gaza
> 
> Talk about being obtuse. The folks at The Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas propaganda outfit operating as a non-profit organization here in the US, is trying to put the best possible spin on the collapse of the “Great March of Return” protests that have petered out after almost two years of failure.
> 
> No, it’s not unclear. It’s not unclear at all. Hamas lost. Big time.
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots at the border between Israel and Gaza, with little effect on US policy or public opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More than three hundred Palestinians have died during these riots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean that Israel has killed more than three hundred unarmed civilians?
Click to expand...

No, 300 terrorists trying to break through the border fence to invade Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Wait, what? There’s a split between the the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and those in the West Bank?

Well, maybe. These are the folks who used power tools as torture devises during their civil war. A “ backlash” seems mild by comparison. 



Hamas faces backlash over ‘ceasefire deal’ with Israel

The Palestinian Authority and several Palestinian factions have criticized Hamas for its reported readiness to reach a long-term ceasefire with Israel, warning that such a move would “solidify” the split between the West Bank and Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections


The Palestinian constitution provides procedures for elections.

I bet that won't happen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly not clear on the EU and German need to press the PA toward elections. It really appears that those in Hamas and the PA who might run for Emir’ship of any mini-caliphate in the territory are the same Islamic misfits who have been a part of the Islamic terrorist syndicates which have existed for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU, including Germany’s Merkel, pressures Palestinians to hold elections
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian constitution provides procedures for elections.
> 
> I bet that won't happen.
Click to expand...


Why would islamic terrorists bother with rules of law?


----------



## Hollie

Well, gee. This has the potential to negatively affect relations between competing Islamic terrorist franchises. Let’s hope they can work out their differences with street shootings and bombings as opposed to throwing each other off rooftops and drilling into knee caps. 




Hamas announced on Sunday that its security forces have arrested Palestinian Authority security officers on suspicion that they helped Israel assassinate senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad military commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata on November 12.

The Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry said the cell members collected information about al-Ata, including monitoring his movements.
“They followed him for several months until the last hour before the [Israeli] occupation assassinated him,” a statement said.
According to the ministry, the cell members are officers from the PA’s General Intelligence Service in the West Bank, who were assigned the task of monitoring and following the movements of al-Ata.

Hamas: PA security officers helped Israel kill Islamic Jihad commander


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Pal’istanians” have the perfect candidate to manage the civil affairs of government.

Yes. Dragging the Arabs-Moslems into their 7th century abyss one Islamic terrorist misfit at a time. 





Imprisoned Barghouthi to run in Palestine presidential election

Imprisoned senior Fatah leader, Marwan Barghouti, will run against the incumbent Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the country’s upcoming presidential election, member of Fatah’s Revolutionary Council announced yesterday.


----------



## Hollie

The inventor of Islam stole ruthlessly from both Judaism and Christianity in the formulation of the politico-religious he concocted.

The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” carry on that Islamist tradition of theft, fraud and manipulation.
*



Jesus was not only "first Palestinian" - he was "first Islamic Martyr" | PMW Analysis
*
Jesus was not only "first Palestinian" - he was "first Islamic Martyr"
Itamar Marcus  | Dec 29, 2019


Fatah leader: Jesus was "first Palestinian," and "first Islamic Martyr"
PA Prime Minister: “Christmas is a national holiday for the Palestinian people”
Abbas: "For all of us Palestinians, this holiday [Christmas] is ours"
Fatah: "Christmas is a Palestinian holiday"


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> The inventor of Islam stole ruthlessly from both Judaism and Christianity in the formulation of the politico-religious he concocted.
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” carry on that Islamist tradition of theft, fraud and manipulation.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus was not only "first Palestinian" - he was "first Islamic Martyr" | PMW Analysis
> *
> Jesus was not only "first Palestinian" - he was "first Islamic Martyr"
> Itamar Marcus  | Dec 29, 2019
> 
> 
> Fatah leader: Jesus was "first Palestinian," and "first Islamic Martyr"
> PA Prime Minister: “Christmas is a national holiday for the Palestinian people”
> Abbas: "For all of us Palestinians, this holiday [Christmas] is ours"
> Fatah: "Christmas is a Palestinian holiday"


Clear evidence the Palestinians are an invented people.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists who benefit from the various welfare agencies which enable fraud and mismanagement by the Arabs-Moslems must be furious with talk of changes to the status quo.



Palestinian Poverty: Who Isn't Sharing the Wealth?


Pan-Arab London based paper, Asharq al Awsat, which is considered a reliable media outlet, recently ran a story saying *there are 600 millionaires in Gaza*.

Moreover, as Ynet detailed:

In 2010, Egyptian magazine Rose al-Yusuf reported that [Hamas leader Ismael] Haniyeh paid for $4 million for a 2,500 m sq parcel of land area in Rimal, a tiny beachfront neighborhood of Gaza City.

Haniyeh is not alone, as Dr. Moshe Elad states:

‘Global estimates say (Hamas leader Khaled) Mashaal is worth $2.6 billion,’ but Arab commentators, with other sources, say he is worth between 2 and 5 billion, ‘invested in Egyptian banks and Gulf countries, some in real estate projects.’

Lest one surmise that Hamas is the only movement with wealthy leaders, UK media outlet The Sun informs us that, as of June 2018, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’ net worth is $100 million.  Hard to argue that he is in any financial straits at that figure. In fact, even Al Jazeera stated that Abbas’ sons enjoy a personal wealth that eludes nearly all their compatriots.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA official who calls for "jihad" tells Christians "it is not a religious conflict" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Those Poor, oppressed islamic terrorists. 

They get rather indignant when their perceived entitlement to murder and mayhem is challenged. 



RAMALLAH, Dec. 29 (Xinhua) -- Palestine on Sunday slammed Israel's decision to freeze millions of dollars from Palestinian tax revenues it collects on behalf of the Palestinians.

"The Israeli government's decision to withhold 150 million shekels (43.4 million U.S. dollars) from Palestine's tax revenues is a blatant act of theft and political extortion," said Hanan Ashrawi, a member of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization.

Ashrawi described the move as "a criminal act of collective punishment exacted for cynical domestic Israeli political reasons."

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-12/30/c_138665313.htm


----------



## Hollie

It seems Mahmoud has some clout among wealthy Arabs-Moslems who want to maintain the status quo.  



Richest Palestinians Stump Up Millions to Bail Out Government


----------



## Hollie

While the linked article addresses the theft and welfare fraud of the Abbas islamic terrorist / criminal enterprise, those in the competing mini-caliphate in Gaza are no less corrupt.

It's just unconscionable that the welfare fraud continue and the globe still finances islamic terrorists.


*The Palestinian Authority and its money*
A report on what happens to the funds that are collected through the Palestinian Authority Donor Machine.

The Palestinian Authority and its money








When it comes to humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority, transparency does not exist.

The result is a rich Palestinian elite which  builds exclusive neighborhoods around Ramallah,  leaving thousands of shoddily constructed apartments without services for the rest of Palestinian society.

Yasser Arafat set the tone for the PA when he arrived in Gaza in 1994. Arafat took control of every contract and investment, using donor money to build a secret $1 billion portfolio, including investments in Coca Cola, a Tunisian cellular phone company and venture capital funds in the US  and Cayman Islands.

Arafat stole  $1 billion in tax revenue relayed by Israel for Palestinian workers. The money went to Arafat’s personal account in Israel’s Bank Leumi in Tel Aviv.

$100,000 a month went to Arafat’s wife, Suha, living in Paris.   Arafat was estimated by U.S. investigators to be worth between $1 billion and $3 billion. [1]

Within three years of the PA’s establishment, Palestinian auditors found that 40 percent of the PA budget, $326 million, was misappropriated, a figure that rose to $700 million a decade later. [2]

Not one Western government objected.  This set the tone for theft at all levels in the PA. PA officials paid themselves high salaries and  skimmed from others. [3]

*Enter Abbas*

Under Arafat’s successor, Mahmoud Abbas, nepotism reached every level of civil service. Officials, often related to Abbas, commanded salaries of $10,000 per month, more than 10 times that of ordinary civil servants, and opened secret accounts in Jordan with money  received in bribes. [4]


----------



## Hollie

Approximately 5% of the budget of the Palestinian Authority are paid to terrorist families.




By: Vladik Sandler


----------



## Hollie

Yes, the angry, competing mini-caliphate’ists are hurling accusations at each other. It’s as though they are playing a game of one-upsmanship 
with each side making bolder, angrier accusations aimed at their rival Islamic terrorist / welfare fraud syndicate. 

At some point, one side or the other is going to “do an islam” and ramp up the war of words to war of largest caliber firearm. 

May both sides enjoy their spiral into the abyss.





Fatah: Hamas leader 'promoting' Trump's 'Deal of the Century'

In yet another sign of mounting tensions between the two rival parties, the Palestinian ruling Fatah faction on Monday accused Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh of "promoting" US President Donald Trump’s yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East, also known as the “Deal of the Century.”

The latest allegation came after Hamas announced that its security forces arrested a number of Palestinian Authority intelligence officers on suspicion of helping Israel kill Palestinian Islamic Jihad military commander Baha Abu al-Ata in the Gaza Strip in November.


----------



## Hollie

With Ahed Tamimi past her young teen years and having a lot of hard miles put on, the islam is looking for a young gee-had virgin, as it were, to be the face of Islamic child abuse. 

Exploitation of young girls is a 1,400 year old tradition in the islam. 

Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today, it seems. 




Rewarding Palestinian Child Exploitation: Janna Jihad goes on the propaganda circuit. 

Rewarding Palestinian Child Exploitation: Janna Jihad Goes to Congress [incl. Marc Lamont Hill, Omar Suleiman]


----------



## Hollie

Why is it I’m not surprised that Rashida Tlaib took part in the exploitation of a child and added to the glorification of a truly vile aspect of Islamic ideology?




Rashida Tlaib's Disturbing Interview with Young Palestinian Terror Promoter Janna Jihad

As a member of the infamous Tamimi clan, Janna Jihad is the 13-year-old cousin of ‘Shirley Temper’ Ahed Tamimi, and is also related to terrorist Ahlam Tamimi, who planned and helped perpetrate the Sbarro bombing in 2001.

Like big cousin Ahed, Janna has been groomed as a young palestinian propaganda star by serial child exploiters Bassem Tamimi and his wife.

Recently, Janna has been on a US speaking tour organized by anti-Israel organizations like Code Pink, American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) and Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP). You can read all about Janna and the tour here, but suffice to say, like other Tamimis before her, she promotes the idea of “liberating Palestine.” It is clear, this includes support for terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

"You've come A long way baby".   Well, maybe next century.

A traditional islamic view on the role of women in the islamic Death Cult. 



"Fmr. Hamas Chief Khaled Mashal on the Role of Women in Palestinian Society: They Are Martyrdom-Seekers, They Help Martyrdom-Seekers, and they Replace Martyred, Imprisoned, Or Exiled Men"







Enjoy, ladies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With Ahed Tamimi past her young teen years and having a lot of hard miles put on, the islam is looking for a young gee-had virgin, as it were, to be the face of Islamic child abuse.
> 
> Exploitation of young girls is a 1,400 year old tradition in the islam.
> 
> Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today, it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rewarding Palestinian Child Exploitation: Janna Jihad goes on the propaganda circuit.
> 
> Rewarding Palestinian Child Exploitation: Janna Jihad Goes to Congress [incl. Marc Lamont Hill, Omar Suleiman]


Great article. (Except for the sour grapes and juvenile name calling.)


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With Ahed Tamimi past her young teen years and having a lot of hard miles put on, the islam is looking for a young gee-had virgin, as it were, to be the face of Islamic child abuse.
> 
> Exploitation of young girls is a 1,400 year old tradition in the islam.
> 
> Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today, it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rewarding Palestinian Child Exploitation: Janna Jihad goes on the propaganda circuit.
> 
> Rewarding Palestinian Child Exploitation: Janna Jihad Goes to Congress [incl. Marc Lamont Hill, Omar Suleiman]
> 
> 
> 
> Great article. (Except for the sour grapes and juvenile name calling.)
Click to expand...


Yes. Rewarding child abuse seems to be a pathology among Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

By: Robert Englehart


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abbas reiterates: If he has only one penny in his budget, he will use it to pay terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Abbas reiterates: If he has only one penny in his budget, he will use it to pay terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Another misquote from a lying sack of shit Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO signed international conventions with NO INTENT of implementing them - just to join the ICC ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

By: Asher Schwartz


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Sixties Fan said:


> The PLO signed international conventions with NO INTENT of implementing them - just to join the ICC ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



What is especially interesting is that the PLO had to sign an agreement to eliminate discrimination against women, just in order to join the ICC, so that it could prosecute Israel, but this was too progressive for them.  They now want to rescind this agreement about women.  This is laughable for 2 reasons:
1)  Foolish Tinmore keeps posting pics of female Palestinian race-car drivers to show how progressive the Palestinians are, not realizing they are only props for PR purposes.
2)  Israel was the only country in the world taken to task for its treatment of women.  Not Saudi Arabia, Iran or Yemen, where they are dressed in shame sacks.  No, ONLY Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems. Since 632 CE.


_




_


----------



## Hollie

Poor, Mahmoud, he’s in a bit of a conspiracy theory meltdown regarding a purported ceasefire between the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and Israel.

Firstly, past ceasefires between Hamas and Israel have shown that the Islamic terrorists adhere to the principle of a Hudna or temporary pause in fighting to re-equip and rearm. There’s no reason to believe that Hamas can control the Iranian backed PIJ stooges so attacks aimed at Israel are  not going to magically end.

I’m waiting to see if Mahmoud will “do a gee-had” and step up his war of words (and maybe war of large caliber weapons) when he feels a greater threat to his mini-caliphate.





Israel is emboldening Hamas, Palestinians warn

The Palestinian Authority is finding it hard to control its fury in the wake of reports Israel and Hamas are close to finalizing a long-term ceasefire agreement in the Gaza Strip.

Palestinian political analysts said sarcastically on Tuesday that the PA’s apoplectic reaction to the purported deal resembles that of a betrayed spouse. The Israeli government’s actions, they added, indicate that it prefers Hamas over the PA.

According to the analysts, PA President Mahmoud Abbas is convinced the Israeli government and US President Donald Trump’s administration are seeking to establish a Hamas-led mini Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect in a largely lawless Islamic terrorist enclave, women face a pretty bleak existence. 



The Status of Women in Gaza

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/hamas/hamas/the-status-of-women-in-gaza/



Women's rights encountered significant barriers to progress with Hamas' rise to power in 2007. Although women make up 50% of the population in Gaza, their influence in most fields is limited, and their basic rights are often systematically denied. The role of women in a Hamas-dominated society was laid out in its 1988 charter, which states that Muslim women are important in that they "manufacture men and play a great role in guiding and educating the [new] generation." While women have achieved some limited accomplishments since Hamas came to power, gender discrimination has intensified overall


----------



## Hollie

Some fun facts for Arabs-Moslems who haven’t yet been able to claw their way out of their 7th century worldviews. 
*
*

*
Facts and Figures*

Early marriage under 18 years old reached 20.5 per cent among females and 1 per cent among males out of the total married population in Palestine [1].
Approximately 15 per cent of married women in Gaza experienced incidents of sexual abuse by husbands over the previous year. More than half of these experienced it repeatedly (3+ times) [2].
50 per cent of Palestinian women and 63 per cent of Palestinian men agreed that a woman should tolerate violence to keep the family together. [3].


----------



## Hollie

It seems that women are the main targets of angry, socially inept Moslem men. 




Women in Gaza: how life has changed

Violence against women has reached alarming levels. A December 2011 study by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, PCBS, revealed that 51% of all married women in Gaza had experienced violence from their husbands in the previous 12 months.

Two thirds (65%) of women surveyed by the PCBS said they preferred to keep silent about violence in the home. Less than 1% said they would seek help. Mona, my 22-year-old interpreter, is astonished when I later ask what support there is for women such as Eman. "If her husband, or in fact anyone in the family, knew she had talked about this, she'd be beaten or killed. As for places for a woman to run to safety, I don't know of any."


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Joe Truzman:

Fatah gunmen in the streets of Ramallah today celebrating the 55th anniversary of Fatah’s first attack against #Israel. #WestBankpic.twitter.com/0WCBpxPDrf
— Joe Truzman (@Jtruzmah) January 1, 2020

Nothing says "peace on Earth, goodwill to all men" like shooting automatic weapons in the air towards a Christmas tree.

It has now been 12 years since Mahmoud Abbas has claimed that he dismantled all Fatah armed groups - and here they still are, wearing masks, in Ramallah, shooting guns in the air.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah shooting automatic weapons next to Ramallah Christmas Tree (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

One might think it odd that Arabs-Moslems would celebrate the very Islamic terrorists who manipulated them and made them the poster children for ineptitude and, well, just plain stupidity.

*Pal’istanian Mentality™️*
*


Hamas allows rival Fatah to mark anniversary in Gaza rally*

Associated Press January 1, 2020






A Palestinian carries a picture of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, during a rally marking the 55th anniversary of the Fatah movement founding, in Gaza City, Wednesday, Jan. 1, 2020. Fatah is a secular Palestinian party and former guerrilla movement founded by Arafat, in Gaza City, Wednesday


----------



## Hollie

It’s a bit hypocritical for the UN to condemn the use of child soldiers while that same, corrupt agency maintains an exclusive welfare fraud program that maintains the dysfunctional mini-caliphate promoting the use of child soldiers.


----------



## Hollie

These uppity women need to learn their place in the wondrous Islamist social order.



Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza

Hamas on Sunday banned the launching of a new television station specializing in Palestinian women’s affairs in the Gaza Strip.

The Hamas-controlled Ministry of Information said that the station, the first of its kind in the Gaza Strip, had failed to obtain a proper license from the relevant authorities.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> These uppity women need to learn their place in the wondrous Islamist social order.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza
> 
> Hamas on Sunday banned the launching of a new television station specializing in Palestinian women’s affairs in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The Hamas-controlled Ministry of Information said that the station, the first of its kind in the Gaza Strip, had failed to obtain a proper license from the relevant authorities.


That is two years old. Do you have an update?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These uppity women need to learn their place in the wondrous Islamist social order.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza
> 
> Hamas on Sunday banned the launching of a new television station specializing in Palestinian women’s affairs in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The Hamas-controlled Ministry of Information said that the station, the first of its kind in the Gaza Strip, had failed to obtain a proper license from the relevant authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> That is two years old. Do you have an update?
Click to expand...


What has changed in two years?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These uppity women need to learn their place in the wondrous Islamist social order.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza
> 
> Hamas on Sunday banned the launching of a new television station specializing in Palestinian women’s affairs in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The Hamas-controlled Ministry of Information said that the station, the first of its kind in the Gaza Strip, had failed to obtain a proper license from the relevant authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> That is two years old. Do you have an update?
Click to expand...


I noticed that too, but I'm pretty sure things haven't changed.  After all, Gazans are mostly Muslims.


----------



## Hollie

I can’t imagine an agency more useless than the ICC when it comes to addressing Islamic terrorists and their use of children as cannon fodder. 





The Case Against the Hamas Children’s Army Mastermind - Israel Today

A senior Hamas leader is being accused of recruiting 17,000 children of Gaza to partake in hostilities against Israel.

The Jerusalem Institute of Justice (JIJ) has opened a formal complaint at the International Criminal Court against Ismail Haniyeh, the highest ranking official in the Hamas terror organization. The 71-page accusation against Haniyeh contains evidence of his direct responsibility for “war crimes through the recruitment, enlistment and use of children below the age of 15 to participate directly in hostilities in an armed conflict.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> These uppity women need to learn their place in the wondrous Islamist social order.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas bans Palestinian women’s TV channel in Gaza
> 
> Hamas on Sunday banned the launching of a new television station specializing in Palestinian women’s affairs in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The Hamas-controlled Ministry of Information said that the station, the first of its kind in the Gaza Strip, had failed to obtain a proper license from the relevant authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> That is two years old. Do you have an update?
Click to expand...


I have this, from a source you litter the board with.

Palestinian Women March against Gender Violence (VIDEO)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I can’t imagine an agency more useless than the ICC when it comes to addressing Islamic terrorists and their use of children as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Case Against the Hamas Children’s Army Mastermind - Israel Today
> 
> A senior Hamas leader is being accused of recruiting 17,000 children of Gaza to partake in hostilities against Israel.
> 
> The Jerusalem Institute of Justice (JIJ) has opened a formal complaint at the International Criminal Court against Ismail Haniyeh, the highest ranking official in the Hamas terror organization. The 71-page accusation against Haniyeh contains evidence of his direct responsibility for “war crimes through the recruitment, enlistment and use of children below the age of 15 to participate directly in hostilities in an armed conflict.”


I thought Israel was not a member of the ICC.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t imagine an agency more useless than the ICC when it comes to addressing Islamic terrorists and their use of children as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Case Against the Hamas Children’s Army Mastermind - Israel Today
> 
> A senior Hamas leader is being accused of recruiting 17,000 children of Gaza to partake in hostilities against Israel.
> 
> The Jerusalem Institute of Justice (JIJ) has opened a formal complaint at the International Criminal Court against Ismail Haniyeh, the highest ranking official in the Hamas terror organization. The 71-page accusation against Haniyeh contains evidence of his direct responsibility for “war crimes through the recruitment, enlistment and use of children below the age of 15 to participate directly in hostilities in an armed conflict.”
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Israel was not a member of the ICC.
Click to expand...


Try paying attention. The article was not about Israel.

“The 71-page accusation against Haniyeh contains evidence of his direct responsibility for “war crimes through the recruitment, enlistment and use of children below the age of 15 to participate directly in hostilities in an armed conflict.”

Disposable Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

Sura 4:34:
_Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other._




Palestinian 'honor killing' sparks outrage, calls for women's protection | DW | 02.09.2019

The death of a young Palestinian woman in a so-called honor killing in the West Bank has sparked protests and calls for justice. Critics say the authorities must do more to ensure women are protected.


----------



## Hollie

Martyr Israa Ghrayeb killed by Arab-Moslem heroes to preserve the family “honor”.

Well, actually, in the warped calculus of the Arab-Moslem male, the _killers_ are the “martyrs”. 



Palestinians demand justice for the alleged honor killing of Israa Ghrayeb – Mondoweiss


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Terrorist Outrage Alert!


Hamas outraged after Bennett seizes terrorists' money
*
Hamas spokesman Hazim Qasim on Wednesday blasted Defense Minister Naftali Bennett’s decision to seize funds from 32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship, Kan News reported.

According to the report, the Hamas spokesman claimed that the move was a "continuation of the Zionist war on the prisoners," called Bennett's move "robbery" and urged the Palestinian Authority not to surrender to this "Zionist step," as he put it.


_“....32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship.”_

Shocking, that. Why would islamic terrorists want IsraelI citizenship?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

It is almost as if SOME families ares support by a bread-winner who's occupation is TERRORIST."



Hollie said:


> *Islamic Terrorist Outrage Alert!*
> _“....32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship.”_
> Shocking, that. Why would islamic terrorists want IsraelI citizenship?


*(COMMENT)*

I wonder what forensic psychology has to say about these families in which all the income is derived from criminal activity.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> It is almost as if SOME families ares support by a bread-winner who's occupation is TERRORIST."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Terrorist Outrage Alert!*
> _“....32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship.”_
> Shocking, that. Why would islamic terrorists want IsraelI citizenship?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder what forensic psychology has to say about these families in which all the income is derived from criminal activity.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Most every country takes care of their veterans and families. The Palestinians shouldn't change that just to satisfy some foreign name callers.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> It is almost as if SOME families ares support by a bread-winner who's occupation is TERRORIST."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Terrorist Outrage Alert!*
> _“....32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship.”_
> Shocking, that. Why would islamic terrorists want IsraelI citizenship?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder what forensic psychology has to say about these families in which all the income is derived from criminal activity.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most every country takes care of their veterans and families. The Palestinians shouldn't change that just to satisfy some foreign name callers.
Click to expand...


A man who enters a home, kills a mother, and then tries to kill her kids before escaping, is not a veteran.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> It is almost as if SOME families ares support by a bread-winner who's occupation is TERRORIST."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Terrorist Outrage Alert!*
> _“....32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship.”_
> Shocking, that. Why would islamic terrorists want IsraelI citizenship?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder what forensic psychology has to say about these families in which all the income is derived from criminal activity.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most every country takes care of their veterans and families. The Palestinians shouldn't change that just to satisfy some foreign name callers.
Click to expand...


Pretty much typifies everything that is twisted and immoral with the islamic terrorist mindset.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ So many pants on fire ]

It uses as its only source the fully discredited 2009 article in Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet that made the same claim and then admitted that it had no evidence but was just "raising questions." Even professional Israel hater Gideon Levy called the Aftonbladet report "cheap and harmful journalism" while his employer Haaretz wrote, "Donald Bostrom, a veteran Swedish journalist, wrote a despicable, utterly baseless article."

Al-Kidwa evidently feels that since it has been over a decade since the controversy, he can resurrect it without fear of anyone fact checking him and then add that this organ stealing is still happening today, again without even the pretense of evidence.

It is just another blood libel against Jews. And it is not only a single person, but the Palestinian Authority made that same claim in an official letter to the UN.

(full article online)

Palestinian and Jordanian media again accusing Israel of stealing Palestinian "martyr" organs ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The apartheid against Palestinians in Lebanon is getting worse - but since Israel isn't involved, no one bothers to pretend to be in solidarity with them.

Yasser Ali, a member of the General Secretariat of the Popular Conference for Palestinians Abroad, warned of "the specter of famine" in Palestinian camps in Lebanon.

He stated that the unemployment rate in the camps that Palestinians are forced to live in worsened from 56% to 65% in 2019 and the poverty rate worsened from 65% to 80%.

Palestinians in Lebanon are barred from some 73 categories of jobs in Lebanon, which is why their unemployment and poverty rates are so high.

In addition, Ali said, Lebanese banks does not allow Palestinians to withdraw funds or even to have funds transferred from abroad.

A large number of refugees mainly depend on their children's remittances from abroad, estimated at about one hundred million dollars per year. Most UNRWA "registered refugees" in Lebanon have left Lebanon long ago; as of a couple of years ago there were only 174,000 actually in Lebanon out of some 470,000 listed. Now, the numbers are probably lower as young Palestinians in Lebanon have literally no future.

(full article online)

Palestinians are in danger of starving - in Lebanon. So you won't read about it in the media. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The nurses were taking part in a four-day medical simulation course that has been held for Palestinian health professionals at the Sheba Medical Center in Ramat Gan a few times annually for the past ten years.

“I have learned many things during this experience, which I will bring back with me to my community,” said a 42-year-old nurse from Gaza City, who teaches clinical nursing at a hospital in the coastal enclave and asked to remain nameless. “It is important because it has enabled me to work on improving my skills without fear that a real patient will be harmed.”

The course took place from Monday to Thursday at Sheba’s Israel Center for Medical Simulation and included various exercises with mannequins related to trauma management and resuscitation.

The program also featured sessions on managerial skills, focusing on how to deal with tense situations. In one of those sessions, for example, the nurses were asked to speak to an individual posing as a relative of a patient who was frustrated about the treatment his family member received.

(full article online)

Palestinian nurses hone their skills at Israeli medical institution


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> It is almost as if SOME families ares support by a bread-winner who's occupation is TERRORIST."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic Terrorist Outrage Alert!*
> _“....32 families of terrorists with Israeli citizenship.”_
> Shocking, that. Why would islamic terrorists want IsraelI citizenship?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I wonder what forensic psychology has to say about these families in which all the income is derived from criminal activity.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Lots of data on the web about the sociopathic behavior and rates of suicide and depression among those in those territories controlled by the islamic terrorist franchises. 

When a society is molded around a cradle to grave program of indoctrination glorifying self-destruction in the act of mass murder, maladjusted individuals reflecting a greater societal illness is expected.  

I can't separate islamic ideology from the actions of Moslems. One of the strangest dynamics one encounters in dealing with folks embracing such an ideology is their refusal to acknowledge that their beliefs can be a wellspring of hate and derision. It really is a prescription for a maladjusted personality, and again, it's evident by the seething passions that are whipped up by religious / ideological fervor and a belief that carnal rewards await in the afterlife.


----------



## Hollie

With Hamas bending and scraping before the Iranian Mullocrats and begging for welfare money, it’s inevitable that the Iranians will also supply Hamas with arms and ammunition. Iran has every intention of promoting Shia ideology in the region.





Shin Bet head: Don't allow Hamas to turn into Hezbollah

As Israel moves toward a ceasefire agreement with Hamas in Gaza, the head of Israel’s Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency), Nadav Argaman, has warned the Security Cabinet against allowing Hamas to turn into the second Hezbollah by not limiting the terror group’s military buildup as part of the arrangement.

According to a report by Yediot Aharonot, during the security cabinet meeting on Wednesday that was attended by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Naftali Bennett and IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi, Argaman read an article that discussed Israel’s failure to stop Hezbollah’s intensive military buildup following the Second Lebanon War and warned of a similar possibility in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

On the other hand, Islamic Terrorist weapons stashes will make for some spectacular fireworks displays when struck by IDF aircraft. 


Shin Bet Chief Warns Against Hamas Stockpiling Weapons


----------



## Hollie

The concept of a “moderate” Islamic terrorist / supremacist is an oxymoron. 
*



Palestinian 'Moderates' Celebrate Terror
by Bassam Tawil
January 3, 2020 at 5:00 am*

Palestinian 'Moderates' Celebrate Terror

It is worth noting that the published statements made in the past few days by the Fatah group in the Gaza Strip are almost entirely consistent with the Hamas ideology [of replacing Israel with an Islamic state through violent jihad (holy war)].


"We will continue the struggle until the liberation of the entire Palestine lands from the filth of the Zionist occupation." – Fatah, Kataeb Shuhada Al-Aqsa - Liwa' Al-Shaheed Nidal Al-Amoudi, November 13, 2019.


Those who continue to refer to Fatah as a "moderate" Palestinian faction need to take into account that it speaks in different voices in Arabic and English and sends conflicting messages as to its true intentions.


----------



## Hollie

It will be interesting to see what this goes. I have to believe that the Iranian Mullocrats are going to pressure their flunkies in Hamas to retaliate against Israel. 

Israel, of course, had no connection with the US strike in Iraq but why would that matter to islamic misfits?




Israel said to warn Gaza terror groups against responding to Soleimani killing

Report says warning relayed to Hamas, Islamic Jihad via Egypt; security cabinet to meet Sunday in wake of heightened threats


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist exploitation of children. Its an islamic tradition.


----------



## Hollie

Resistance against islamic terrorism / colonialism is a right. 



IDF: 54 targets struck in Syria, 900 in Gaza over past year


_





_


----------



## Hollie

I suspect under orders from their Shia masters in Iran:

Palestinian terror groups denounce Soleimani death as a US 'crime'

The least they could do is throw in an obligatory, _Death To Amrica_™️ or a _Great Satan_™️ reference.


----------



## Hollie

More “resistance”. 

Remarkable how much time and energy Arabs-Moslems spend “resisting” the pratfalls and comedy of errors that defines their very existence. 





Hamas calls for resistance against Israeli tax move - World News

Israel's security cabinet voted Dec. 29 to deduct $43 million from the tax funds the Israeli administration transfers each month to the Palestinian Authority.

Palestinians say the funds are needed to help families affected by violence and the Israeli occupation.

The cabinet also approved the withholding of $144 million of tax funds from Palestinians in Feb. 2019.




What a shame the Arabs-Moslems “resist” making any attempt at a functioning society.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Iran is rallying their flunkies into a “resistance” froth. 

The threats aimed at Israel are little more than excuses for expressions of the expected Jew hatreds coming from Islamist ideology. 

Just what one would expect from an ideology of hate and retrogression. 



Hezbollah, Hamas and Assad Regime Praise Soleimani, Vow Revenge for Iranian General’s Death




Iranian demonstrators hold up mobile phones showing pictures of late Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, in front of the UN office in Tehran, Jan. 3, 2020. Photo: Nazanin Tabatabaee / WANA (West Asia News Agency) via Reuters.

Iran’s Shi’a terror proxy in Lebanon on Friday reacted furiously to the news of the killing of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani in a US airstrike in Baghdad, but stopped short of specifying exactly how it planned to respond.

Hailing Soleimani as a “master of resistance,” Hassan Nasrallah — the leader of Hezbollah, the Lebanese group backed by Iran for the past four decades — issued a vehement warning to the US and Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinians Exploiting Children to Fight Israel


The new Palestinian curriculum for grades 1 to 4 "is significantly more radical than previous curricula," concludes a new study by Hebrew University's Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (IMPACT-se). It "teaches students to be martyrs, demonizes and denies the existence of Israel, and focuses on a 'return' to an exclusively Palestinian homeland.


----------



## Hollie

So, basically, social mores have changed very little since the 7th century.  



UN report: Widespread child abuse in Palestinian Authority

A new report by the United Nations Children’s Fund revealed rampant child abuse in the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian Arab communities in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan, including rape, forced marriages, and beatings.

According to the UNICEF report, "2% of all Palestinian women aged 15 to 49 years married before the age of 15." In addition, the report noted that nearly one quarter of Palestinian Arab women "marry" before the age of 18.

The percentage of forced child marriages was lower in communities outside the Palestinian Authority and the Gaza Strip. "In Lebanon, 5.9 per cent of Palestinian refugee girls and 13.4 of Syrian girls aged 15 to 19 years are married. In the Syrian Arab Republic, 13 per cent of Palestinian women aged 20 to 49 years were married before the age of 18."


----------



## Hollie

It must be a difficult time for the wannabe Shia Islamists, 


Hamas, PIJ denounce killing of Soleimani as a US 'crime'

Palestinian factions set up mourning tent for slain Iranian commander
Hamas,


----------



## Hollie

The act of propping up a “mourning tent” for a Shia Moslem who is responsible for the deaths of uncounted numbers of Sunni Moslems of course will draw condemnation from the majority Sunni / Salafi Arabs.

The Hamas and PIJ wannabe Shia are only going to alienate the majority Sunni / Salafi Middle East. 

I suppose that is the price Hamas and PIJ will pay for aligning with the Shia heretics for a welfare check. 




Hamas, PIJ face criticism for mourning ‘murderer’ Soleimani

Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) leaders have been facing sharp criticism from several Palestinians and other Arabs for setting up a mourning tent in the Gaza Strip for Qassem Soleimani, commander of Al-Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), who was killed in a US assassination last week.

The critics took the two Iranian-backed Palestinian groups to task for expressing condolences over the death of Soleimani and accused them of seeking to appease Tehran in order to ensure continued financial and military support.


----------



## Hollie

Report: Hamas Won't Use Soleimani Elimination to Stoke Tensions | Hamodia.com



No. Hamas will do nothing but wave their tin foil sabers and make pompous threats. 

it’s in their best interest to sit down and _shat up._


----------



## Hollie

What a wonderful legacy. From Yasser Arafat to Mahmoud Abbas. An unbroken chain of islamic terrorist dictators, social misfits and welfare thieves who made personal fortunes through fraud and management of an Islamic terrorist franchise. 

From Yasser “_World's most Successful Islamic Terrorist_” Arafat to Mahmoud “_I Have a $50 million dollar Presidential Jet_” Abbas, the planet has managed to shower welfare money on Arabs-Moslems who exist as an invented people with an invented national identity. 




Palestinian Fatah marks 55 years with West Bank marches

RAMALLAH, West Bank — Hundreds of Palestinians marched through the West Bank city of Ramallah on Tuesday to mark the 55th anniversary of the Fatah movement led by President Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## Hollie

If Haniyeh and the lslamic terrorists in Hamas would simply announce their conversion to Shia Islam, the Ayatollahs might be willing to increase their welfare allowance. 



Hamas leader praises Soleimani at Tehran funeral in show of support for Iran

Haniyeh tells mourners that Palestinian terror groups owe Quds Force general thanks for his backing; vows assassination will only strengthen drive ‘toward liberation of Palestine’


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is performing some world-class sucking up in front of their Iranian masters.

It must be humiliating for Hamas mouthpieces to be summoned to Iran for photo-ops. However, Iranian welfare dollars come with conditions.


Hamas chief meets slain Iranian general’s successor in Tehran

*Photo shows Haniyeh and new Quds Force commander Esmail Ghaani standing alongside each other; Hamas head also visits Qassem Soleimani’s family*
By ADAM RASGON Today, 8:29 pm 10:47 



https://twitter.com/AlMayadeenNews/status/1214211974122356736


----------



## Hollie

Yep. The 1,400 year old blood feud that divides the Sunni and Shia tribes burns as hot today as it did in the 7th century.

For most of the Sunni Arab world, Hamas is viewed to be sleeping with the enemy.



https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/01...hat-hamas-leader-attended-soleimanis-funeral/

Hamas politburo leader Ismail Haniyeh’s presence at last rites for former Quds Force commander Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani was an "attack on Egypt’s national honor," says Egyptian intelligence official.

The official went on to attack Haniyeh’s conduct and stress that "Haniyeh and Hamas have chosen to side with Iran while blatantly ignoring the unmistakable messages from Cairo and other Sunni Arab nations. Qassem Soleimani is responsible for the murder of thousands of Sunni Muslims, including many Palestinians."


----------



## Hollie

With Haniyeh taking sides against the Sunni tribes, this can't go well. 

Pay your respects, everybody tells you
You pay for what you get” -_Dave Matthews_





Egypt reportedly simmers over Hamas chief’s trip to Iran. The last thing the Sunni want is another Shia encampment in their neighborhood.

Egypt reportedly simmers over Hamas chief’s trip to Iran

Cairo said to have allowed Ismail Haniyeh to travel beyond Gaza and Egypt on condition that he not visit the Islamic Republic; sources predict move will cause a ‘major crisis’.


----------



## Hollie

You didn't get an invitation to the fatah fashion show?

There was even a display of the fem gee-had.  

Media Watch
About UsPMW ImpactSupport PMW

*Flaunting terror, Abbas' Fatah strides into 2020*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 6, 2020

*Dozens of masked fighters with automatic rifles and pistols together with posters of terrorist murderers displayed at parades *







Abbas’ Fatah Movement intends to continue using violence and terror against Israel in 2020. That is the clear message Fatah chose to proclaim through its 55th anniversary celebrations. In Bethlehem and Salfit, for example, numerous Palestinian men and women participated in anniversary marches and demonstrations carrying assault rifles and handguns, and wearing military uniforms and masks. 



With Hamas getting all those sweet Iranian hugs, kisses and welfare money,  I suspect Fatah is feeling a bit like the first, teenage bride being sidelined in favor of the new, pre-teen bride.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reaction by Palestinian militant groups such as al-Qassam Brigades, Mujahideen Brigades, and Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades, all which benefit from Iranian support, has mostly been by condolence messages in the form of martyr banners with the image of Soleimani.

(full article online)

Palestinian terror groups mourn loss of key supporter Qassem Soleimani


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prime minister Mohammad Shtayyeh said, "The government adheres to Palestinian values and principles, and does not violate the Sharia. ...Our religious and national values are above everything else, and this is in keeping with the decision of the Constitutional Court's decision, and as a protection of our (women's) honor, the unity of our society and the rule of law."

What did the Constitutional Court rule?

Al-Monitor reports, quoting an Abbas aide: "There is also a decision by the Constitutional Court whereby international agreements prevail over local laws, provided these are consistent with the Palestinian religious and cultural legacy."

They did not tell the UN this little fact that they follow Sharia over international agreement when they signed CEDAW. There were no reservations included in their agreement.

(full article online)

Palestinian prime minister admits they won't honor signed agreements that contradict Sharia. (Spoiler: This includes peace with Israel.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Shed a treat, won’t you?
*


PA condemns Israel's seizure of "Pay-for-Slay" funds from Israeli Arab terrorists, repeats lie that rewards are welfare*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jan 7, 2020
PA condemns Israel's seizure of "Pay-for-Slay" funds from Israeli Arab terrorists, repeats lie that rewards are welfare | PMW Analysis

The reaction of the Palestinian Authority to the order of Israel’s Minister of Defense Naftali Bennett to seize the monies paid by the PA in salaries to Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners highlighted the false nature of the PA’s claims regarding its “Pay-for-Slay” policy. The decision of Minister Bennett to seize the funds followed the recommendation of Palestinian Media Watch days prior.


----------



## Hollie

It's so cute that a cabal of Sunni islamic terrorists from Hamas were supposed.moned to meet their new boss in Tehran. 

More Sunni Islamist bending and scraping before their Shia masters. This will go swimmingly with Egypt and the KSA. 



Hamas delegation meets Soleimani's successor in Iran

Breaking News
17:36 | 01/06/20
_A delegation of Hamas officials met assassinated IRGC Quds Force commander Qasem Soleimani's successor, Ismail Qaani in Iran, Ynet reported on Monday.

According to Ynet, the participants, among which were Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh and Saleh alArouri, visited the country to participate in Soleimani's funeral._


----------



## Sixties Fan

It took them 5 years to get around to mentioning they have a problem with the treaty, and even then they could not be bothered to formally register their reservations.

(full article online)

The Palestinians, Jordan And Their Contempt for International Treaties (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Is high-profile Meshaal setting stage to lead Hamas again?

Sure, why not?

It’s probably his turn again to be the Emir of Gaza’istan / primary beneficiary of the UNRWA welfare fraud sometimes called the invented “Pal’istanians”


----------



## Hollie

Thanks, Jibril. 

Pompous, Islamic terrorist misfits making demands is old news. 
*

Jibril Rajoub demands boycott of Israel in sports*

Jibril Rajoub demands boycott of Israel in sports | PMW Analysis

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 8, 2020

*Jibril Rajoub “conveyed blessings to all the Arab athletes who have refused to compete with Israeli athletes”*

*Rajoub demands implementation of boycott defined by Council of Arab Ministers for Youth and Sports:*
*“To refuse to participate in any event that the occupation state hosts; To refuse to host any event in which Israeli groups participate; and for every Arab athlete to refuse to compete against an Israeli athlete."*


----------



## Hollie

It truly is a shame that contributions to a corrupt welfare endowment for islamic terrorists is allowed to continue.



Growing calls to defund UNRWA, after scathing report



The demands from the Jewish organizations came on the heels of a leaked internal report that revealed, according to media accounts, “credible and corroborated” allegations of “serious ethical abuses.”

The report, which was sent to the UN secretary general in December and obtained by Al Jazeera and Agence France-Presse (AFP) late last month, alleged that senior UNRWA management engaged in “sexual misconduct, nepotism, retaliation, discrimination and other abuses of authority, for personal gain, to suppress legitimate dissent and to otherwise achieve their personal objectives,” AFP reported.


----------



## Sixties Fan

He wore a T-shirt that says "New York."

And a Superman baseball cap.





Superman, of course, traditionally stood for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" - and was created by two Jewish guys.

For wanting to see America destroyed, they sure seem to love America.

(full article online)

Gazan with "New York" T-Shirt and Superman cap participates in "Death To America" event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

‘Experts’ Perpetuate Mideast and Palestinian Myths

*Myth #1: Palestinian Arab terrorism is caused by poverty.*

Many of the modern-day Zionist pioneers involved in rebuilding the Land of Israel in the late 1800s and early 1900s likewise believed that the Palestinian Arabs would drop their opposition to the Jews once they saw how much they would benefit from Jewish immigration.

Jobs. Running water. Electricity. Trains. They were followed by refrigerators, telephones, mail service, and automobiles. Arabs from Syria, Egypt, and across the Jordan River poured into the country and enjoyed better jobs, better homes, and better food. But it didn’t stop them from hating Jews. In 1920, 1921, 1929, and continuously from 1936 to 1939, Palestinian Arabs shot, stabbed, and bombed Jews throughout the country, even when it undermined their own economic well-being.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> He wore a T-shirt that says "New York."
> 
> And a Superman baseball cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superman, of course, traditionally stood for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" - and was created by two Jewish guys.
> 
> For wanting to see America destroyed, they sure seem to love America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan with "New York" T-Shirt and Superman cap participates in "Death To America" event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


The Palestinians like Americans. They just hate the assholes in our government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wore a T-shirt that says "New York."
> 
> And a Superman baseball cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superman, of course, traditionally stood for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" - and was created by two Jewish guys.
> 
> For wanting to see America destroyed, they sure seem to love America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan with "New York" T-Shirt and Superman cap participates in "Death To America" event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians like Americans. They just hate the assholes in our government.
Click to expand...


Actually, your specious banter is hardly true. 

Pew Survey: Palestinian Arabs Dislike America More Than Any Other Group


Palestinian Blackmail: US Is Our Enemy


----------



## Hollie

It's actually refreshing to read the statements of Gulf area Arabs-Moslems as it relates to those posing as "Pal'istanians".  The Pals have always been "useful idiots" to be manipulated as necessary for the benefit of Arabs.

Now, the Iranians have taken the reins as primary manipulators which has enraged the Arabs.




The Palestinians' Real Enemies

 "The Palestinians are useful to the Arab states as they are," President Gamal Abdel Nasser candidly responded to an enquiring Western reporter. "We will always see that they do not become too powerful. Can you imagine yet another nation on the shores of the eastern Mediterranean!"[5] Had these territories not come under Israel's control during the June 1967 war, their populations would have lost whatever vestiges of Palestinian identity they retained since 1948. For the second time in two decades, Israel unwittingly salvaged the Palestinian national cause.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wore a T-shirt that says "New York."
> 
> And a Superman baseball cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superman, of course, traditionally stood for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" - and was created by two Jewish guys.
> 
> For wanting to see America destroyed, they sure seem to love America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan with "New York" T-Shirt and Superman cap participates in "Death To America" event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians like Americans. They just hate the assholes in our government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, your specious banter is hardly true.
> 
> Pew Survey: Palestinian Arabs Dislike America More Than Any Other Group
> 
> 
> Palestinian Blackmail: US Is Our Enemy
Click to expand...

Last weekend, the Palestinians' anti-American campaign reached a peak, when activists in a refugee camp near Bethlehem held a mock trial for Trump and Pence.​
Indeed, those are the government assholes I was talking about.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wore a T-shirt that says "New York."
> 
> And a Superman baseball cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superman, of course, traditionally stood for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" - and was created by two Jewish guys.
> 
> For wanting to see America destroyed, they sure seem to love America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan with "New York" T-Shirt and Superman cap participates in "Death To America" event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians like Americans. They just hate the assholes in our government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, your specious banter is hardly true.
> 
> Pew Survey: Palestinian Arabs Dislike America More Than Any Other Group
> 
> 
> Palestinian Blackmail: US Is Our Enemy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Last weekend, the Palestinians' anti-American campaign reached a peak, when activists in a refugee camp near Bethlehem held a mock trial for Trump and Pence.​
> Indeed, those are the government assholes I was talking about.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you’re not paying attention.

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## Hollie

Whomever contributes to the Hamas welfare fraud fund is going to be Ismail Haniyeh’s new best friend. I suppose he is willing to bear the wrath of the Sunni Arab street in exchange for Shia welfare. 


Haniyeh’s visit signals Hamas seeks stronger Iranian alliance

The US assassination Jan. 3 of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps' Quds Force commander Qasem Soleimani has been a bombshell in the news. Yet Hamas politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh’s visit Jan. 6 to Iran for Soleimani's funeral is creating quite a stir itself in the Middle East.

Haniyeh, who hadn't visited Iran since 2012, was accompanied this time by a Hamas leadership delegation. He was the only non-Iranian figure to speak at the funeral, and Soleimani's daughter mentioned Haniyeh, along with other Iranian allies, as figures who will avenge her father’s killing.


----------



## Hollie

*‘Experts’ Perpetuate Mideast and Palestinian Myths*

*
Myth #2: ‘Moderate’ Hamas and ‘extremist’ Islamic Jihad.*

Hamas will “move toward medium-term ‘understandings’ with Israel,” JISS asserts. “However, the Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad will try to continue to derail such understandings.”

Before Hamas was created, we were told that Yasser Arafat was “moderate,” while other PLO leaders were the “rejectionists.” After Hamas came along, we were told that the Palestinian Authority was moderate, while Hamas were the rejectionists. Now in this latest version Good Terrorist/Bad Terrorist, we are supposed to believe that the suddenly reasonable, flexible, rational Hamas is ready to make an agreement with Israel, and Islamic Jihad are the extremists.


----------



## Hollie

But, you already knew this. 


Special Report The ties between NGOs promoting BDS and terror organizations | Prime Minister's Office

In a special report, the deep link between designated Palestinian terror organizations Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and anti-Israel NGOs promoting boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS) of Israel is exposed.


----------



## Hollie

So, it’s come to this has it? Haniyeh is about to have his Ummah ticket punched?

There is no overstating the depth of hatred and revulsion that the Sunni / Salafi feel toward the Shia and the reverse is true. 



Hamas must choose: Egypt or Iran?


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. How much more welfare money will it take to support the Islamic terrorists in Hamas?





Gaza 'unliveable' ten years after Hamas seized power: U.N.

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A decade after the Islamist group Hamas seized Gaza, the Palestinian enclave is effectively unliveable for its 2 million people, with declining incomes, healthcare, education, electricity and fresh water, the United Nations said.


----------



## Hollie

*Gaza: Where Terrorists Are ‘Victims’ and Terrorism Is ‘Resistance’*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> But, you already knew this.
> 
> 
> Special Report The ties between NGOs promoting BDS and terror organizations | Prime Minister's Office
> 
> In a special report, the deep link between designated Palestinian terror organizations Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and anti-Israel NGOs promoting boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS) of Israel is exposed.


More Israeli terrorist propaganda crap.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, you already knew this.
> 
> 
> Special Report The ties between NGOs promoting BDS and terror organizations | Prime Minister's Office
> 
> In a special report, the deep link between designated Palestinian terror organizations Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and anti-Israel NGOs promoting boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS) of Israel is exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda crap.
Click to expand...


Just another bit of silly cut and paste you spam various threads with.


----------



## Hollie

The myth of “calm” with the Arab-Moslems pretending to be “Pal’istanians”  means nothing more than a Hudna (temporary pause in hostilities), as the Arabs-Moslems re-arm. This has been a demonstrated pattern of behavior as the Arabs-Moslems have suffered humiliating losses only to pursue the goals of the Hamas Charter.
*



Myth #3: You can buy peace with Gaza.
*
‘Experts’ Perpetuate Mideast and Palestinian Myths

JISS recommends: “In Gaza, Israel must be prepared both for tougher-than-ever military action to deter Hamas and for more-generous-than-ever economic arrangements that might secure calm with Hamas.”


----------



## Hollie

This seems a bit misguided in that the complaint alleges the PA “failed to protect both Palestinian and Israeli children in armed conflict.” The reality is that both Hamas and the PA regularly exploit children with a program of indoctrination that produces legions of mentally defective islamo-bots.





Report to U.N. urges rights for Palestinian, Israeli children subjected to Hamas abuse

In a legal brief filed with the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child shortly before the one-year anniversary of the Palestinian “March of Return” on March 30, the independent human-rights group U.N. Watch urged that the Palestinian Authority be held to account for violating children’s rights, alleging that it has “failed to protect both Palestinian and Israeli children in armed conflict.”


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> He wore a T-shirt that says "New York."
> 
> And a Superman baseball cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superman, of course, traditionally stood for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" - and was created by two Jewish guys.
> 
> For wanting to see America destroyed, they sure seem to love America.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan with "New York" T-Shirt and Superman cap participates in "Death To America" event ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Thanks, laughed my ass off!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, you already knew this.
> 
> 
> Special Report The ties between NGOs promoting BDS and terror organizations | Prime Minister's Office
> 
> In a special report, the deep link between designated Palestinian terror organizations Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and anti-Israel NGOs promoting boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS) of Israel is exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli terrorist propaganda crap.
Click to expand...


Concerning the cartoon here:  If the ppl of Gaza know that the retribution will be that harsh, maybe they should wise up and stop throwing rockets into Israel.


----------



## Mindful

How many times have the Arabs been offered a State in Israel?



How many times have they turned it down?


----------



## Hollie

I’ll bet you didn’t know that Native American Indians were Moslems.

This is why it’s important that you don’t get your US history from Islamic terrorist knuckleheads.


https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/01...ernate-us-history-claims-indians-were-muslim/

“George Washington killed Indians because they were Muslims," says Hamas legislator according to a clip shared by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).


----------



## Hollie

While conspiracy theories floated by Islamics can be entertaining, let’s look st the over/under on this.

The Emir of Gaza’istan can spend can spend the UNRWA welfare fraud money on public works projects,

OR

The welfare fraud money can be stolen and used to further personal fortunes.


Decisions, decisions.




Hamas: Israeli Army ‘Makes Large Amounts of Rainwater to Flood Gaza Crops’




Gaza children try to cross a flooded street following a heavy rain storm in Gaza City, on January 10, 2020.

Gaza’s ruling Hamas terrorist organization has accused the Israel Defense Forces of directing flood waters to invade the enclave from the Jewish State.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA wants Israel to stand idly by and permit the PA to pay financial rewards to Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners who murdered other Israelis or otherwise participated in terrorism against Israel, and all under the pretext that the payments “provide their families with a living, a place to live, health, education, and so on.”

Needless to say, the PA’s claim is manifestly false as the payments of monthly salaries to the Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners fulfil none of the argued goals.

Firstly, the salaries are paid simply because the terrorists are in prison for what the PA Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners euphemistically refers to as “struggling against the occupation.” This definition includes the entire spectrum of Palestinian terrorists, including those charged and convicted with mere membership in terrorist organizations to those convicted of mass murders. A wealthy terrorist receives the same payment as a destitute terrorist. There are no needs-based requirements such as the family of the terrorist being homeless or not being able to make ends meet. Moreover, unmarried terrorists with no families to support receive the same base salary as do married terrorists, only these receive an insignificant supplement per spouse and child.

Secondly, because the terrorists are Israeli Arabs, their children (if they have any) are covered by the Israeli health system and can attend Israeli schools.

Thirdly, when proven necessary and if they meet the income standards set by Israeli law, the families of Israeli Arab terrorists are even entitled to Israeli social welfare payments.

In truth, as PMW has already demonstrated, despite the claims of the PA, the “Pay-for-Slay” payments have nothing whatsoever to do with welfare.  

(full article online)

PA condemns Israel's seizure of "Pay-for-Slay" funds from Israeli Arab terrorists, repeats lie that rewards are welfare | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

It seems odd to suggest that an islamic terrorist enclave operating under the viciously anti-human / retrograde islamic sharia would be expected to conform to norms of international law.



Human rights group documents Hamas abuses

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Al Mezan Center for Human Rights released April 23 a "fact sheet" on violations of the people’s rights to assemble peacefully, express opinions and not be subject to arbitrary detention in the Gaza Strip.

The information presented was gathered between March 1, 2018, and March 1, 2019, as part of an EU-funded project to document rights abuses and promote compliance with international law.


----------



## Hollie

As you might have anticipated, the competing mini-caliphates are not playing well together. The sham of islamic terrorist elections is playing out with both factions understanding that control and exploitation of the UNRWA welfare fraud endowment is the prize of the winning tribe.

This can only get uglier with possibly a return to those lovely days of open, street warfare.



Palestinian Authority crackdown on Hamas 'jeopardizes elections'

Middle East
16:31 | 01/13/20

PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY CRACKDOWN ON HAMAS 'JEOPARDIZES ELECTIONS'
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_





Hamas: Abbas looking for excuse to avoid elections

The Palestinian Authority security forces have arrested 195 Hamas members in the West Bank during the last week of December 2019, Hamas said on Monday.

The arrests, which are seen as another sign of the continued tensions between the PA and Hamas, are likely to hamper efforts to hold new presidential and parliamentary elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> As you might have anticipated, the competing mini-caliphates are not playing well together. The sham of islamic terrorist elections is playing out with both factions understanding that control and exploitation of the UNRWA welfare fraud endowment is the prize of the winning tribe.
> 
> This can only get uglier with possibly a return to those lovely days of open, street warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority crackdown on Hamas 'jeopardizes elections'
> 
> Middle East
> 16:31 | 01/13/20
> 
> PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY CRACKDOWN ON HAMAS 'JEOPARDIZES ELECTIONS'
> By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas: Abbas looking for excuse to avoid elections
> 
> The Palestinian Authority security forces have arrested 195 Hamas members in the West Bank during the last week of December 2019, Hamas said on Monday.
> 
> The arrests, which are seen as another sign of the continued tensions between the PA and Hamas, are likely to hamper efforts to hold new presidential and parliamentary elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip._


No surprise. The PA is a bantustan government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have anticipated, the competing mini-caliphates are not playing well together. The sham of islamic terrorist elections is playing out with both factions understanding that control and exploitation of the UNRWA welfare fraud endowment is the prize of the winning tribe.
> 
> This can only get uglier with possibly a return to those lovely days of open, street warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority crackdown on Hamas 'jeopardizes elections'
> 
> Middle East
> 16:31 | 01/13/20
> 
> PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY CRACKDOWN ON HAMAS 'JEOPARDIZES ELECTIONS'
> By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas: Abbas looking for excuse to avoid elections
> 
> The Palestinian Authority security forces have arrested 195 Hamas members in the West Bank during the last week of December 2019, Hamas said on Monday.
> 
> The arrests, which are seen as another sign of the continued tensions between the PA and Hamas, are likely to hamper efforts to hold new presidential and parliamentary elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip._
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. The PA is a bantustan government.
Click to expand...


No surprise. More silly slogans.


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was interesting.  In the world of islamic terrorists and their UNRWA welfare fraud endowment, I wouldn't be surprised to read that Mahmoud had an unfortunate accident.  The successor dictator might announce that Mahmoud had unfortunately fallen down a flight of stairs (repeatedly). Mahmoud is no more. 






Fatah officials jockeying for power as Abbas’s tenure enters 15th year

Middle East
18:35 | 01/11/20

FATAH OFFICIALS JOCKEYING FOR POWER AS ABBAS’S TENURE ENTERS 15TH YEAR
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
_




Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas gestures beneath a poster of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. (photo credit:" FINBARR O'REILLY / REUTERS)
Numerous leaders in the Palestinian Authority have been vying for a change of leadership under the radar.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas enters the 15th year of his four-year term of office amid reports of a behind-the-scenes war of succession in Ramallah.

According to the reports, Hussein Al-Sheikh, head of the PA’s General Authority for Civil Affairs and member of the Fatah Central Committee; and Majed Faraj, head of the PA General Intelligence Service, have been working to prepare for the post-Abbas era.

The reports said that Al-Sheikh and Faraj have been trying to convince PLO and Fatah officials to support PA Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh as Abbas’s successor._


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is one of the most unenlightened comments I've seen you repeat.



P F Tinmore said:


> No surprise. The PA is a bantustan government.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinian Authority (PA) is made up of it own constituency.  The PA is NOT a set-aside on the basis of race.

It should be noted that several states within the Arab League are *Shia majority* but is ruled by Sunni.  This is NOT a racial issue either.




_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Maybe if we just give them more money we can encourage this behaviour.


*Fatah promises cruel terror and "war of the street", burning of Jewish towns*
Itamar Marcus  | Jan 13, 2020






*"With cleavers and knives, with grenades we announced a popular war"*
*"I swear, you won't escape, my enemy"*
*"We will light a fire under your feet! … We will cause volcanoes to erupt under your feet!"*
*"Fatah of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades will return to be as it was!"*
*All at event attended by Abbas' deputy Mahmoud Al-Aloul*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of the most unenlightened comments I've seen you repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is made up of it own constituency.  The PA is NOT a set-aside on the basis of race.
> 
> It should be noted that several states within the Arab League are *Shia majority* but is ruled by Sunni.  This is NOT a racial issue either.
> View attachment 299995​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

False criteria. Racial discrimination is based on characteristics that cannot be changed. In Israel if you are born a Jew you are a Jew. If you are born a Palestinian you are a Palestinian.  These are immutable, inherited characteristics. These are descent groups.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of the most unenlightened comments I've seen you repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. The PA is a bantustan government.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is made up of it own constituency.  The PA is NOT a set-aside on the basis of race.
> 
> It should be noted that several states within the Arab League are *Shia majority* but is ruled by Sunni.  This is NOT a racial issue either.
> View attachment 299995​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False criteria. Racial discrimination is based on characteristics that cannot be changed. In Israel if you are born a Jew you are a Jew. If you are born a Palestinian you are a Palestinian.  These are immutable, inherited characteristics. These are descent groups.
Click to expand...


False premise.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I think that you are mistaken on two counts.

FIRST:  What is the general source for understanding the meaning of "racial discrimination."  


			
				Encyclopedia Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *racial discrimination* The present international law on racial discrimination derives from
> the U.N. Charter, which in art. 1(3) states that one of the Organization ’ s purposes is ‘promoting
> and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all
> without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion’, thus placing non-discrimination
> at the very heart of the entire U.N. human rights system. The Universal Declaration of
> Human Rights of 10 December 1948 (General Assembly Res. 217 (III)) stipulates, in art. 2,
> that its protection is to apply ‘without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language,
> religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other
> status’. Provisions with similar effect appear in art. 2(1) of the International Covenant on
> Civil and Political Rights of 16 December 1966 ( 999 U.N.T.S. 171 ; see Civil and Political
> Rights, International Covenant on ) and in art. 2(2) of the International Covenant on
> Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights of the same date ( 993 U.N.T.S. 3 ; see Economic,
> Social, and Cultural Rights, International Covenant on ).



SECOND:  On this point, the change is NOT unchanging over time or characteristic that is unable to be changed.
*Convert* To *Judaism* Online (Reform or Conservative) through our online *Jewish* learning and *conversion* program.​


P F Tinmore said:


> False criteria. Racial discrimination is based on characteristics that cannot be changed. In Israel, if you are born a Jew you are a Jew. If you are born a Palestinian you are a Palestinian.  These are immutable, inherited characteristics. These are descent groups.


*(COMMENT)*

No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.  That did not become a compound description until 11 December 2012 and the Memo by the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs pertaining to the status of Palestine.  Remember → prior to December 1988, anyone born with the limits of the former territory under the Mandate for Palestine could be considered by some as Palestinian _(not a citizenship designation)_.  However, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" _(not a true territorial designation)_.   

•  A/RES/43/177  Acknowledges • State of Palestine 1988
•  A/RES/67/19  Status of Palestine in the United Nations  (4/12/2012)​
However, if you were a resident of the West Bank or Arab Jerusalem between April 1950 thru July 1988, you were eligible for Jordanian citizenship. 

I have noticed that the pro-Arab Palestinians are desperately trying to make this racial discrimination issue a key factor in the conflict.  The fact of the matter is that the people on the outside border of sovereign Israel are not separated by race.  They are separated by citizenship.  That is not racial discrimination → but the exercise of sovereign control.  The people outside Area "C" Settlements are separated by the Oslo Accord agreement with the Arab Palestinians.    

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.


You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are intentionally undermining the context of what I said.  This is misinformation on your part.

I did not say the Mandate was the territory.  However, there are a number of ways it can be described.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

No matter what you _(or your interpretation)_ of what I said, or the accepted description of the territory, it was defined:



			
				✪  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922) said:
			
		

> *PART I*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .*PRELIMINARY*.​Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.



Anyone is free to read what I said, and then (as I did), put it in a historical sense *(former territory under the Mandate)*.   I did not say the mandate was a territory.  I used the same legal framework as used in 1922. 



			
				The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica said:
			
		

> *Mandate*
> League of Nations
> Written By:
> See Article History
> *Alternative Title:*  *mandated territory* •
> 
> *The mandate*, an authorization granted by the League of Nations to a member nation to govern a former German or Turkish colony. The territory was called a mandated territory, or mandate.



I am not trying to confuse people at all.  You are trying to imply something which was NOT said.  You may also notice that the International Court of Justice (ICJ) sometimes refers to the that in question as:  "all the territories which had constituted Palestine under British Mandate."  (See:  *ICJ **The Historical Narrative* of the Court • ICJ Opinion on the Separation Barrier”)

Again, anyone may read what I said, and read what you said, and compare them to any of the authority documents.  Then they can make up their own mind as to who is intentionally attempting to confuse the issue.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


What country did the Mandate administer?

There was never a “country of Pally’land”. Inventing a place that never existed and then attempting to attribute the Mandate as administrator of that non-existent “country” suggests profound ignorance on your part of history and of the facts


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are intentionally undermining the context of what I said.  This is misinformation on your part.
> 
> I did not say the Mandate was the territory.  However, there are a number of ways it can be described.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter what you _(or your interpretation)_ of what I said, or the accepted description of the territory, it was defined:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ✪  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PART I*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .*PRELIMINARY*.​Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone is free to read what I said, and then (as I did), put it in a historical sense *(former territory under the Mandate)*.   I did not say the mandate was a territory.  I used the same legal framework as used in 1922.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Mandate*
> League of Nations
> Written By:
> See Article History
> *Alternative Title:*  *mandated territory* •
> 
> *The mandate*, an authorization granted by the League of Nations to a member nation to govern a former German or Turkish colony. The territory was called a mandated territory, or mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not trying to confuse people at all.  You are trying to imply something which was NOT said.  You may also notice that the International Court of Justice (ICJ) sometimes refers to the that in question as:  "all the territories which had constituted Palestine under British Mandate."  (See:  *ICJ **The Historical Narrative* of the Court • ICJ Opinion on the Separation Barrier”)
> 
> Again, anyone may read what I said, and read what you said, and compare them to any of the authority documents.  Then they can make up their own mind as to who is intentionally attempting to confuse the issue.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> .*PRELIMINARY*.





			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.


1922 was when Palestine was occupied enemy territory. After 1924 it was not. There was a different body of laws. Why do you keep bringing up issues that no longer applied?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country did the Mandate administer?
> 
> There was never a “country of Pally’land”. Inventing a place that never existed and then attempting to attribute the Mandate as administrator of that non-existent “country” suggests profound ignorance on your part of history and of the facts
Click to expand...

That was my point. What did the Mandate for Palestine administer if there was no Palestine?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country did the Mandate administer?
> 
> There was never a “country of Pally’land”. Inventing a place that never existed and then attempting to attribute the Mandate as administrator of that non-existent “country” suggests profound ignorance on your part of history and of the facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was my point. What did the Mandate for Palestine administer if there was no Palestine?
Click to expand...


You're rather confused. It seems you know nothing of the history surrounding the Mandate.

I suspect that's why you refer to your invented "country of Pal'istan" not understandimg there never was such a country.

Shouldn't you take the time to learn some facts before making an argument?

All of this has been delineated for you dozens of times but you insist on making the same false claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I did not say the Mandate was the territory. However, there are a number of ways it can be described.


It is what is implied. Many people believe that once there was no more Mandate, there was no more Palestine. The Mandate was irrelevant to the existence of Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say the Mandate was the territory. However, there are a number of ways it can be described.
> 
> 
> 
> It is what is implied. Many people believe that once there was no more Mandate, there was no more Palestine. The Mandate was irrelevant to the existence of Palestine.
Click to expand...


A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.

There was never a "Magical kingdom of Pally'land" (_Where Dreams Come True), _as you like to portray it. You have this fantastical notion of Pally'land as some have with mythical lost city of _Atlantis_.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you were born in the former territory under the Mandate, you are under the general description of Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still trying to confuse people. The Mandate was not a "place." It had no sovereignty. It had no territory. It had no borders.The Mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to administer the country in the best interest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country did the Mandate administer?
> 
> There was never a “country of Pally’land”. Inventing a place that never existed and then attempting to attribute the Mandate as administrator of that non-existent “country” suggests profound ignorance on your part of history and of the facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was my point. What did the Mandate for Palestine administer if there was no Palestine?
Click to expand...


*What did the Mandate for Palestine administer if there was no Palestine? *

The Jewish homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say the Mandate was the territory. However, there are a number of ways it can be described.
> 
> 
> 
> It is what is implied. Many people believe that once there was no more Mandate, there was no more Palestine. The Mandate was irrelevant to the existence of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.
> 
> There was never a "Magical kingdom of Pally'land" (_Where Dreams Come True), _as you like to portray it. You have this fantastical notion of Pally'land as some have with mythical lost city of _Atlantis_.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.


Israeli bullshit, of course. Palestine's international borders were defined by international treaties.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say the Mandate was the territory. However, there are a number of ways it can be described.
> 
> 
> 
> It is what is implied. Many people believe that once there was no more Mandate, there was no more Palestine. The Mandate was irrelevant to the existence of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.
> 
> There was never a "Magical kingdom of Pally'land" (_Where Dreams Come True), _as you like to portray it. You have this fantastical notion of Pally'land as some have with mythical lost city of _Atlantis_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Palestine's international borders were defined by international treaties.
Click to expand...


Disneyland also has borders. Is it a "country"?

As usual, you're still unable to identify when your invented "country of Pal'istan" ever existed.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you even got this much wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1922 was when Palestine was occupied enemy territory. After 1924 it was not. There was a different body of laws. Why do you keep bringing up issues that no longer applied?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

√  The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) over the Levantine provinces of the former Ottoman Empire was established on 23 October 1918 _(after the Armistice of Mudros)_ and ended on 1 July 1920 _(after the San Remo Convention)_ with the establishment of the Civil Administration.

This area was identified, in Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne, as "respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers."  It was these territories, in the Levantine provinces of the former Ottoman Empire _(from the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey)_, that Turkey renounces all rights and title in favor of the Allied Powers.

From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate, the High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Treaty of Lausanne was NOT a body of laws that governed the territories of the entity known as "Palestine."  The Treaty of Lausanne set the conditions which legitimized the post-War Administration of the territories.  The laws governing the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied evolved over time as do most national laws throughout the world.  But the authority of those laws rested with the High Commissioner _(acting as the highest ranking authority representing the United Kingdom in the mandated territories of Palestine and Transjordan)_.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Why are you being so obstinant?



P F Tinmore said:


> That was my point. What did the Mandate for Palestine administer if there was no Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

Palestine was (during the period of the Mandate for Palestine) a legal entity but it is NOT a sovereign state. Palestine was a territory administered under mandate by the British Government.    The British Government was entirely responsible both for its internal administration, domestic affairs and for its foreign relations pertaining to the territory as named by the Palestine Order in Council.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say the Mandate was the territory. However, there are a number of ways it can be described.
> 
> 
> 
> It is what is implied. Many people believe that once there was no more Mandate, there was no more Palestine. The Mandate was irrelevant to the existence of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.
> 
> There was never a "Magical kingdom of Pally'land" (_Where Dreams Come True), _as you like to portray it. You have this fantastical notion of Pally'land as some have with mythical lost city of _Atlantis_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A loosely defined geographic area called Palestine is not in question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. Palestine's international borders were defined by international treaties.
Click to expand...


That definition vested all sovereignty to the Jewish Nation.

And no you run in circles...


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine, in any context, was NOT a word to be found in the entire Treaty of Lausanne.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's international borders were defined by international treaties.


*(COMMENT)*

ARTICLE 3.

From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:

(I ) With Syria:

The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921​
(2) With Iraq:

The frontier between Turkey and Iraq shall be laid down in friendly arrangement to be concluded between Turkey and Great Britain within nine months.

In the event of no agreement being reached between the two Governments within the time mentioned, the dispute shall be referred to the Council of the League of Nations.

The Turkish and British Governments reciprocally undertake that, pending the decision to be reached on the subject of the frontier, no military or other movement shall take place which might modify in any way the present state of the territories of which the final fate will depend upon that decision.​
I want you to take note that in the opening sentence in Article 3, the landscape covered by the words of description → "From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia" - completely includes the modern-day mantra → "From the River to the Sea."   

I would very much appreciate your knowledge of some treaty identifying Palestine's borders.   Who signed as the authority _(competent authority of a State designating a person or persons to represent the State for negotiating, adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty)_ on behalf of Palestine?

Without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip, the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) covers that Area.  And without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967, the international boundary between Jordan and Israel is set forth in the Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994).  But neither Treaty actually makes reference to the "Palestine Entity."  

*without prejudice,* adv. (I5c) Without loss of any rights;
in a way that does not harm or cancel the legal rights or
privileges of a party <dismissed without prejudice>.​
As far as all this discussion of what territory is called what, the fact of the matter is that - YES - the treaties on the matter of permanent international boundaries that are current today, are all that really counts.


_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Palestine, in any context, was NOT a word to be found in the entire Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine's international borders were defined by international treaties.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ARTICLE 3.
> 
> From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:
> 
> (I ) With Syria:
> 
> The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921​(2) With Iraq:
> 
> The frontier between Turkey and Iraq shall be laid down in friendly arrangement to be concluded between Turkey and Great Britain within nine months.
> 
> In the event of no agreement being reached between the two Governments within the time mentioned, the dispute shall be referred to the Council of the League of Nations.
> 
> The Turkish and British Governments reciprocally undertake that, pending the decision to be reached on the subject of the frontier, no military or other movement shall take place which might modify in any way the present state of the territories of which the final fate will depend upon that decision.​
> I want you to take note that in the opening sentence in Article 3, the landscape covered by the words of description → "From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia" - completely includes the modern-day mantra → "From the River to the Sea."
> 
> I would very much appreciate your knowledge of some treaty identifying Palestine's borders.   Who signed as the authority _(competent authority of a State designating a person or persons to represent the State for negotiating, adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty)_ on behalf of Palestine?
> 
> Without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip, the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) covers that Area.  And without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967, the international boundary between Jordan and Israel is set forth in the Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994).  But neither Treaty actually makes reference to the "Palestine Entity."
> 
> *without prejudice,* adv. (I5c) Without loss of any rights;
> in a way that does not harm or cancel the legal rights or
> privileges of a party <dismissed without prejudice>.​
> As far as all this discussion of what territory is called what, the fact of the matter is that - YES - the treaties on the matter of permanent international boundaries that are current today, are all that really counts.
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I would very much appreciate your knowledge of some treaty identifying Palestine's borders. Who signed as the authority _(competent authority of a State designating a person or persons to represent the State for negotiating, adopting or authenticating the text of a treaty)_ on behalf of Palestine?


All of the proposed new states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Palestine) had their territory defined before they became states. Therefor none of them were involves in any of those treaties. To say that Palestine's international borders are invalid because they did not sign any of the treaties is disingenuous because none of the new states signed any treaties. None of them were states yet.

Here again, you're trying to confuse the people.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say anything was invalid.  I'm not trying to confuse people at all.  I' trying to extract some facts from you.



P F Tinmore said:


> All of the proposed new states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Palestine) had their territory defined before they became states. Therefor none of them were involves in any of those treaties. To say that Palestine's international borders are invalid because they did not sign any of the treaties is disingenuous because none of the new states signed any treaties. None of them were states yet.
> 
> Here again, you're trying to confuse the people.


*(COMMENT)*

Excluding the territorial limits devised by the Allied Powers:

◈  I want to know where this "new state" of Palestinian Territory _(you are talking about)_ was defined?  

◈  And why does this make a difference?​
◈  How does that impact today's treaties?​_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I did not say anything was invalid.  I'm not trying to confuse people at all.  I' trying to extract some facts from you.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of the proposed new states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Palestine) had their territory defined before they became states. Therefor none of them were involves in any of those treaties. To say that Palestine's international borders are invalid because they did not sign any of the treaties is disingenuous because none of the new states signed any treaties. None of them were states yet.
> 
> Here again, you're trying to confuse the people.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Excluding the territorial limits devised by the Allied Powers:
> 
> ◈  I want to know where this "new state" of Palestinian Territory _(you are talking about)_ was defined?
> 
> ◈  And why does this make a difference?​
> ◈  How does that impact today's treaties?​_
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Upon its detachment from the Ottomans, the territory of Palestine became distinct from its neighboring countries.6In fact, this separation began between Palestine and the newly created Arab ‘states’: Trans-Jordan (as it was called), Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.7 Soon thereafter, Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

This site explains the establishment of Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.



You always manage to just slide sideways from the truth in order to support your silly notions.  

No.  Nationality is not a legal bond between individuals and a territory.  Pieces of land are not legal entities which can enter into relationships with other legal entities.  Nationality is a legal bond (relationship) between individuals and a sovereign (a State).  It's the State which has a legal relationship with territory:  the right to control it, the right to utilize its resources, the right to give it away, the right to enter into agreements with other States or legal entities such as corporations concerning it.  

I am not arguing with you what the boundaries of the territory are.  Rocco isn't either.  (He can confirm).  We all agree that the boundaries were established through legal documents and treaties and through the general principle of territories maintaining their previous boundaries with a new sovereign.  You don't have to convince us what the boundaries are.

The dispute is not with the boundaries, but who the sovereign was.  The territory (with its boundaries) came under the control of the only sovereign which was entitled to sovereignty and the only sovereign which became self-governing:  Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> [Palestine’s frontiers acquired permanent recognition through bilateral agreements with its neighbors.



Which bilateral agreements were those?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> All of the proposed new states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Palestine) had their territory defined before they became states... None of them were states yet.



So as not to confuse people....

Territory can be defined with boundaries and still NOT be a State.  There can be a period of time between when the territory is defined and when the territory comes under control of a sovereign.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a misinterpretation of the Customary Law relative to preventing stateless people _(Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons)_ and Customary Law relative to preventing refugees _(Convention and Protocols Relating to the Status of Refugees)_ and the Customary Law on nationality.



P F Tinmore said:


> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> This site explains the establishment of Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

FIRST:  These and other Customary Laws of the period, are now found in Chapter V • Administrative Measures, in the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons.  They have been used customarily all through the 20th Century.

◈  The Authorities in control over those persons in their territory shall issue identity papers to any stateless person in their territory who does not possess a valid travel document.

◈  The Authorities in control shall issue to stateless lawfully staying in their territory  travel documents for the purpose of travel out-by their own authorities, unless compelling reasons national security or public order otherwise required.

◈  The Authorities in control shall as far as possible facilitate the assimilation and naturalization Transfer of  stateless persons. They shall in particular. . make every effort to expedite naturalization.​
SECOND:  These Customary Laws are now found in Chapter V • Administrative Measures, in the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.  They have been used customarily all through the 20th Century.

◈  The Authorities in control shall issue identity papers to any refugee in their ter-ritory who does not possess a valid travel document.

◈  The Authorities in control shall deliver or cause to be delivered under their supervision to refugees such documents or certifications as would normally be delivered to aliens by or through their national authorities.

◈  Documents or certifications so delivered by the Authorities in control shall stand in the stead of the official instruments delivered to aliens by or through their national authorities, and shall be given credence in the absence of proof to the contrary.​
In the older lanugage, concerning nationality in the early period of the 20th Century, these were written into the Treaties and international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation.  Thus, the Allied Powers had Section II • Nationality, within the Treaty of Lausanne as the priciple carrier and prime mover behind these Customary Laws and Protocolos.

It was on this basis that territories, like those under Mandate, which had not yet been organized into "new states" _(the former Ottoman Leventine Territories)_ that the Mandatory treated the inhabitance.

As far as the Allied Powers were concerned, the Treaty and the Mandate agreed that the Allied Powers full authority to establish, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers, the future of these territories being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

The decision was made and acted upon.  These actions do not conflict with your Paragraph 5 Opinion.  However, Paragraph 7, is a conflict in that it leads the outside observer with the impression that the boundaries where NOT under the decision and control of the Allied Powers.  Don't get it in your head that you can reinterperet the decision ("It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.") and come up to a different conclusion.  It was determined by the Mandatory that:  "*Palestine is today (being 25 February 1948) a legal entity but it is NOT a sovereign state.*"

Depending on the Ruling of the Court, and the Court's definition of a "sovereign state" → it may not yet be considered a soveriegn state.
*


*
Most Respectfully,
R
*

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always manage to just slide sideways from the truth in order to support your silly notions.
> 
> No.  Nationality is not a legal bond between individuals and a territory.  Pieces of land are not legal entities which can enter into relationships with other legal entities.  Nationality is a legal bond (relationship) between individuals and a sovereign (a State).  It's the State which has a legal relationship with territory:  the right to control it, the right to utilize its resources, the right to give it away, the right to enter into agreements with other States or legal entities such as corporations concerning it.
> 
> I am not arguing with you what the boundaries of the territory are.  Rocco isn't either.  (He can confirm).  We all agree that the boundaries were established through legal documents and treaties and through the general principle of territories maintaining their previous boundaries with a new sovereign.  You don't have to convince us what the boundaries are.
> 
> The dispute is not with the boundaries, but who the sovereign was.  The territory (with its boundaries) came under the control of the only sovereign which was entitled to sovereignty and the only sovereign which became self-governing:  Israel.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The dispute is not with the boundaries, but who the sovereign was. The territory (with its boundaries) came under the control of the only sovereign which was entitled to sovereignty and the only sovereign which became self-governing: Israel.


Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?

Links?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always manage to just slide sideways from the truth in order to support your silly notions.
> 
> No.  Nationality is not a legal bond between individuals and a territory.  Pieces of land are not legal entities which can enter into relationships with other legal entities.  Nationality is a legal bond (relationship) between individuals and a sovereign (a State).  It's the State which has a legal relationship with territory:  the right to control it, the right to utilize its resources, the right to give it away, the right to enter into agreements with other States or legal entities such as corporations concerning it.
> 
> I am not arguing with you what the boundaries of the territory are.  Rocco isn't either.  (He can confirm).  We all agree that the boundaries were established through legal documents and treaties and through the general principle of territories maintaining their previous boundaries with a new sovereign.  You don't have to convince us what the boundaries are.
> 
> The dispute is not with the boundaries, but who the sovereign was.  The territory (with its boundaries) came under the control of the only sovereign which was entitled to sovereignty and the only sovereign which became self-governing:  Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The dispute is not with the boundaries, but who the sovereign was. The territory (with its boundaries) came under the control of the only sovereign which was entitled to sovereignty and the only sovereign which became self-governing: Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?

From the losers, Ottomans.

World War I - Wikipedia


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?



You always ask this question.  And always ignore the answer.  

The Jewish people were entitled to sovereignty because of their existing rights to self-determination on their homeland of origin, as made into law with the San Remo Conference and the Mandate for Palestine.  The Jewish people obtained actual sovereignty by developing self-governing institutions and declaring independence.  

Its the normal way.  

If they put their minds to it, the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians can do it too.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.



			
				The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
			
		

> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •





P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?


*(COMMENT)*

*Foreign relations of Israel*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...

Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?


*(COMMENT)*

*Foreign relations of Israel*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...

Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.

Nice deflection.

That wasn't the question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.



That is not true.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented. Therefore there was no land or borders established.

By the time Israel proclaimed those borders, it had blown past those borders and was attacking in proposed Arab land and Jerusalem. Israel has never recognized those borders as its international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented. Therefore there was no land or borders established.
> 
> By the time Israel proclaimed those borders, it had blown past those borders and was attacking in proposed Arab land and Jerusalem. Israel has never recognized those borders as its international borders.
Click to expand...


The plan was never implemented. What plan was that?


----------



## Hollie

Why Some Palestinians Love Soleimani

[Many] Arabs have claimed that they cannot understand why Hamas and Islamic Jihad are mourning an Iranian general responsible for the killing and displacement of thousands of people in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. Some Arabs scoffed at the two Palestinian groups for labeling Soleimani as the "martyr of Jerusalem" at a time "when most of his rockets and bullets were being used to kill Arabs and Muslims to implement Iran's scheme of expanding its control to Arab and Islamic countries."


Without Iran's financial, military and political support, Hamas and Islamic Jihad would not have been able to maintain their control over the Gaza Strip.... Hamas and Islamic Jihad have demonstrated that they care nothing for the thousands of Arabs and Muslims killed by Soleimani's Quds Force. As far as these groups are concerned... [t]he end goal for Hamas and Islamic Jihad remains the elimination of Israel....


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




> Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.



Do you mean between the natives and settlers?



> The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.



The propaganda states that Arab armies attacked Israel. This is not true. The Arab armies fought Israeli forces in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •​



Israel made promises to be accepted into the UN. Then after its acceptance, it reneged on those promises.

Israel lied to get into the UN.​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel made promises to be accepted into the UN. Then after its acceptance, it reneged on those promises.
> 
> Israel lied to get into the UN.​
Click to expand...


Silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

The Fem gee-had wants you. 

I'd want to ask some questions about equal benefits for "martyrdom", you know, like virgins, a street bearing my name, etc., before I joined up. 



_The Palestinian Authority's National Security Forces (NSF) and the Fatah movement recently held a training camp for high school girls, at which the participants wore military-style uniforms and took part in various activities, some of them military, such as training with mock weapons.[1] The camp was named after Karim Younis, an Israeli Arab who is serving a life sentence for the kidnapping and murder of an Israeli soldier in 1980.[2] Younis, who is the longest-serving Palestinian prisoner in Israeli custody, and has served 38 years of his 40-year prison term, is greatly revered by Fatah and the Palestinian Authority (PA). In 2017 he was even elected to Fatah's Central Committee, and PA officials refer to him as "the eldest of the prisoners."_

_This document reviews the reports on the Karim Younis training camp, and a statement issued by Fatah in his honor._





Participants hold up a poster bearing the name of the camp, with a portrait of Karim Younis flanked by those of Palestinian President Mahmoud 'Abbas and Yasser Arafat (Source: Facebook.com/shabeba2017, January 7, 2020)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented. Therefore there was no land or borders established.
> 
> By the time Israel proclaimed those borders, it had blown past those borders and was attacking in proposed Arab land and Jerusalem. Israel has never recognized those borders as its international borders.
Click to expand...


Look at the map. Israel implemented the shit out of it.
How'd the Arab failure to implement the plan work out for them?
Look at the map.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The generalized answer is:  Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations → AKA • The Bluebook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10):  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> (Page 12)  On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
> *SOURCE:* UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Foreign relations of Israel*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...
> 
> Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you mean between the natives and settlers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The propaganda states that Arab armies attacked Israel. This is not true. The Arab armies fought Israeli forces in Palestine.
Click to expand...


*Do you mean between the natives and settlers?*

Between the winners and the Arabs.

*The Arab armies fought Israeli forces in Palestine.*

And got their asses kicked.


----------



## Hollie

More of the usual Death Cult threats and provocation.

With Hamas and PIJ getting Iranian welfare checks, the islamic terrorists in Fatah may be feeling a bit sidelined.

*Did PA and Fatah officials threaten terror against Israel?
*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 14, 2020
*PA religious leader:*


*Use “all forms” of resistance "wisely and intelligently"*




*Fatah official:*


*“We must… shake the foundations of Israel… Necessity permits that which is forbidden”*
*“The popular resistance ‎will amaze the world, as we are content with Martyrdom. We want to die as we did at Karameh”*
*
*
Well honestly guys, if you want to die, you can bend and scrape before the Iranian Mullocrats.  They will be happy to put you on their welfare payroll as a way to increase the numbers of dead Sunni Arabs.


----------



## Hollie

It really is remarkable that the UNRWA welfare fraud continues despite the demonstrated fraud and abuse of the program. 

Arabs-Moslems seem to have a peculiar inabiity to join the relevant first world and be contributors as opposed to continually creating the disasters and pratfalls that define their existence. 


https://embassies.gov.il/un/statements/security_council/Pages/UNRWA-address.aspx

In other words: the vast majority of UNRWA beneficiaries do not meet the recognized criteria for what constitutes a refugee under international law. No other refugee population in the world enjoys this same privilege. Why, then, does UNRWA grant its beneficiaries all of this special treatment?


----------



## Hollie

The next generation of disposable islamics. 



Raising child soldiers
Hamas Child Soldiers Graduate from 'Summer Camp'

Military drills, weapons training and rockets - Hamas celebrates next generation of terrorists at summer camp graduation.









Hamas child recruits
Reuters


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.



Hollie said:


> Silly conspiracy theories.


*(COMMENT)*

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
Click to expand...


His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.



P F Tinmore said:


> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.





			
				UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
			
		

> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."



So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.


			
				Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.



*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.
> 
> This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Our friend PF Tinmore does have his own version of history. Much like the 200 + times he has cut and pasted a parsed version of the Treaty of Lausanne, insisting that document created his imagined "country of Pal'istan". Most of us would be too embarrassed to even think of perpetuating a fraud like that.

I suppose that not fact, not truth and not a reality based worldview will be allowed to impose itself upon an identifiable few in these thread.


----------



## Hollie

The lovely Abdel was carrying on about some alleged, impending gee-had that Yasser Arafat may have been whispering in his ear. Maybe he's hearing voices, who knows. 

Otherwise, what's with these islamic terrorist knuckle draggers using the "revolutionary" prefix for their Death Cult clubs? Not much revolutionary about a totalitarian politico- religious ideology invented by a 7th century Arab warlord and which ideology has been largely static since that time. 



"Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Abdel-Elah Atira: Arafat Hinted to Us to Start the Intifada"


----------



## Hollie

Knuckleheads burning paper mache models. Next, they'll fashion dolls in the likeness of israelis and plunge large needles into them. Bloody chickens feet next?




"Fatah Anniversary Ceremony: Pledges to take up arms; Model Israeli Settlement Set on Fire"


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.
> 
> This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."


Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.
> 
> This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
Click to expand...


*What happened to those proposed borders?*

The ones the Arabs didn't accept?
*
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?*

The one the Arabs didn't accept?

*What happened to the UN control of military forces?*

LOL!

*What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?*

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, eh?​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.
> 
> This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *What happened to those proposed borders?*
> 
> The ones the Arabs didn't accept?
> *
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?*
> 
> The one the Arabs didn't accept?
> 
> *What happened to the UN control of military forces?*
> 
> LOL!
> 
> *What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?*
> 
> They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, eh?​
Click to expand...

Where is that stupid post button?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.
> 
> This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
Click to expand...


How many more times do those spam questions need to be addressed?


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Iranian Mullocrats ordered their flunkies to attack Israel. 





IDF ATTACKS HAMAS TARGETS IN GAZA IN RESPONSE TO ROCKET FIRE
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF,REUTERS
_




Rocket fired from Gaza toward Israel, November 12, 2019. (photo credit:" REUTERS)
Rocket alert sirens were activated in southern Israel on Wednesday afternoon as four rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel.
The IDF attacked targets in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday evening, hours after four rockets were fired into Israeli territory from Gaza, according to a statement from the IDF Spokesperson's Unit.

Israeli Air Force jets attacked Hamas targets in the northern Strip, including a site for weapons production and a military compound, the spokesperson confirmed.
_


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true.  Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His version is the only acceptable version.  Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Official Press Release PAL/169 (17 May 1948) United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.
> 
> This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ruses of War* are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
> Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in *art. 37(2)* of Protocol I
> Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
> which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
> perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
> under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
> camouflage, decoys, mock operations and *misinformation*’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *What happened to those proposed borders?*
> 
> The ones the Arabs didn't accept?
> *
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?*
> 
> The one the Arabs didn't accept?
> 
> *What happened to the UN control of military forces?*
> 
> LOL!
> 
> *What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?*
> 
> They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, eh?​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is that stupid post button?
Click to expand...


It's been broken by your pro-terrorism idiocy.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.



P F Tinmore said:


> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."


Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.[/QUOTE]
*(ANSWERS)*

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_


*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
Click to expand...

*(ANSWERS)*

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_


*

*
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.


There is a problem with this statement. *Before* any Arab army entered Palestine, Israel had already cleansed the Palestinians from the proposed Jewish state and was already attacking deep into the proposed Arab state.

It is false narrative to say that Israel was attacked and was defending itself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
Click to expand...

*(ANSWERS)*

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_


*

*
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.


Jerusalem was supposedly UN territory in the middle of Arab territory.

Why was Israel even there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
Click to expand...

*(ANSWERS)*

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_


*

*
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


P F Tinmore said:


> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”



So, when did this happen?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
Click to expand...

*(ANSWERS)*

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_


*

*
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.


Resolution 181 stated that *all* Palestinians who *normally lived* in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.
> 
> #2
> This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.
> 
> #3
> I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
> The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”
> 
> #4
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.
> 
> #5
> Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.
> 
> I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.


Resolution 181 stated that *all* Palestinians who *normally lived* in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.[/QUOTE]

Resolution 181 was never implemented.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.
> 
> #2
> This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.
> 
> #3
> I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
> The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”
> 
> #4
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.
> 
> #5
> Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.
> 
> I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.


Jerusalem was supposedly UN territory in the middle of Arab territory.

Why was Israel even there?[/QUOTE]
Ignorance on your part. The UN never acquired territory.


----------



## Pamela Helpert

I think Israel is a project created in order to stabilize Middle East situation. It is literaly the only stable contry in the region.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.
> 
> #2
> This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.
> 
> #3
> I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
> The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”
> 
> #4
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.
> 
> #5
> Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.
> 
> I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Resolution 181 stated that *all* Palestinians who *normally lived* in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.
Click to expand...


Resolution 181 was never implemented.[/QUOTE]

Forgetting a few key words “ Live in peace with your Neighbors “.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.
> 
> #2
> This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.
> 
> #3
> I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
> The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”
> 
> #4
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.
> 
> #5
> Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.
> 
> I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Resolution 181 stated that *all* Palestinians who *normally lived* in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.
Click to expand...


Resolution 181 was never implemented.[/QUOTE]
I know. I was responding to Rocco who says it was.


----------



## Hollie

Some Islamic terrorist obedience training in Gaza'istan following Islamic terrorist attac.


P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.
> 
> #2
> This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.
> 
> #3
> I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
> The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”
> 
> #4
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.
> 
> #5
> Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.
> 
> I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Resolution 181 stated that *all* Palestinians who *normally lived* in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was never implemented.
Click to expand...

I know. I was responding to Rocco who says it was.[/QUOTE]

You're not paying attention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Some Islamic terrorist obedience training in Gaza'istan following Islamic terrorist attac.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).   That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics.  There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.
> 
> But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me.  And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases:  I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
> 
> What happened to those proposed borders?
> What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
> What happened to the UN control of military forces?
> What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
> What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?
> 
> That should be enough questions to duck for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> #1
> The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events _[the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)]_ and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.  They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter.  The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements.  The last position of the FEBA became _(with minor adjustments)_ the outline for the Armistice.
> 
> #2
> This question was “NEVER” ducked.  It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem.  The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.  Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee.  Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.
> 
> #3
> I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
> The adopted protocol was that:  “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
> This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”
> 
> #4
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.  Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem.  PAL/537 4 NOV 49  The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49  Certainly, when the Arab  Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely _(the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot)_.
> 
> #5
> Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution.  This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.​I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves.  I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation.  One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle.  I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day _(on both sides)_.  Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.
> 
> I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today.  There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute.  And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate _(from the river to the sea) _and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution _(jihad)_ _(armed struggle)_ is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again.  (_Trying answer that will_ _not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)_
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Resolution 181 stated that *all* Palestinians who *normally lived* in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was never implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I was responding to Rocco who says it was.
Click to expand...


You're not paying attention.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Hollie

The fatah Cult is taking a real swipe at Hamas.

Another Mahmoud reminding us that an integral part of islamism is your "enmity" for various non-islamics and a special kind of enmity for the _wrong kind_ of islamics - the Shiite heretics.

Sunni revulsion for the Shiite sect dates back to ancient times and tales following the death of islams' inventor.

1,400 years later, these retrogrades are still slaughtering each other over hatreds that burn as bright today as they did in the 7th century.



"Mahmoud Habbash, Advisor to PA President Abbas, on the Backdrop of Hamas Participation in Qasem Soleimani's Funeral: Our Enmity for America and Israel Cannot Make Us Forget Our Enmity for the Shiites"


----------



## Hollie

By: Shay Charka


----------



## Hollie

By:Moshik Gulst


----------



## Hollie

I'm not sure how to describe the Arabs-Moslems as other than conspiracy theory addled and emotionally, intellectually decrepit. 
*


Lethal PA libel alive and kicking*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 16, 2020
*•   Israel is excavating under the Al-Aqsa Mosque, building “the alleged Temple”
•   “[Western] Wall has no connection to Jews”
•   Western Wall is “Islamic heritage”*





One of the most lethal recurring Palestinian Authority libels accuses Israel of planning to destroy and defile the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Many Palestinian terrorists who murdered Israelis have explained that they killed in defense of the Al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## Hollie

Following the latest Islamic terrorist attacks, Israel is delivering some high explosive beatdown in response. 




IDF strikes Hamas in Gaza in response to explosive balloons from Strip

Israeli helicopter hits terror infrastructure in northern part of Palestinian territory, army says, following at least 2 airborne bombs landing in southern Israel 
Today, 12:02 am  1


----------



## Hollie

Looks like more retaliation by Israel in response to Islamic terrorist attacks. 



Israel strikes Hamas in Gaza second day after incendiary balloons

Israel strikes Hamas in Gaza second day after incendiary balloons

Security source in Palestinian enclave confirms strike hit base belonging to military wing of Hamas, with no injuries reported


----------



## Hollie

Heh. Retrograde Islamic terrorists making bellicose demands. 

I suppose if their demands aren’t met, they’ll, you know, make more demands. 



Hamas says it won’t accept Israel dragging feet on lifting Gaza blockade


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

This "warning" of sorts _(will not abide Israel continuing to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip in 2020)_ is strange indeed.   The mere fact that The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) is demanding passage through UN Member State through lethal intimidation of its population in an attempt to compel its government → to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act → will almost guarantee that Israel will not take any action that appears to acquiesce to the demands of a designated terrorist organization.



Hollie said:


> Heh. Retrograde Islamic terrorists making bellicose demands.
> I suppose if their demands aren’t met, they’ll, you know, make more demands.
> •  Hamas says it won’t accept Israel dragging feet on lifting Gaza blockade  •


*(COMMENT)*

It almost appears that HAMAS is intentionally antagonizing Israel _(both the people and government)_ in such a way as to prolong stringent activities that include _(but not limited to)_:

◈  Actions that investigate, disrupt and dismantle organized criminal networks and  complement international cooperation by taking additional measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the financing and preparation of any acts of terrorism,

◈  Prevent the entry into or the transit through their territories of these hostile individuals, and further preventing terrorists from acquiring weapons,

◈  Implement countermeasures that hinder the flow of foreign terrorist fighters,

◈  In preventing illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of all types of explosives,

✦  improvised explosive devices,
✦  detonators, detonating cords chemical components,
✦  trafficking of military and dual-use materials and equipment that could be used for the illegal manufacture of arms and armaments, including explosive and incideary devices;​
HAMAS, and all its associated terrorist and criminal allies _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ know very well why it is necessary for Israel to continue to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip.  And that will probably continue until such time as the Arab Palestinians decide to:

◈  Acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Israel,

◈  Live in peace → free from using threats or acts of force and violence against its neighbors,​
I believe they make such threats as you have noticed in order to keep donor funding to arrive and line the pockets of corrupt government officials.

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This "warning" of sorts _(will not abide Israel continuing to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip in 2020)_ is strange indeed.   The mere fact that The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) is demanding passage through UN Member State through lethal intimidation of its population in an attempt to compel its government → to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act → will almost guarantee that Israel will not take any action that appears to acquiesce to the demands of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. Retrograde Islamic terrorists making bellicose demands.
> I suppose if their demands aren’t met, they’ll, you know, make more demands.
> •  Hamas says it won’t accept Israel dragging feet on lifting Gaza blockade  •
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It almost appears that HAMAS is intentionally antagonizing Israel _(both the people and government)_ in such a way as to prolong stringent activities that include _(but not limited to)_:
> 
> ◈  Actions that investigate, disrupt and dismantle organized criminal networks and  complement international cooperation by taking additional measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the financing and preparation of any acts of terrorism,
> 
> ◈  Prevent the entry into or the transit through their territories of these hostile individuals, and further preventing terrorists from acquiring weapons,
> 
> ◈  Implement countermeasures that hinder the flow of foreign terrorist fighters,
> 
> ◈  In preventing illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of all types of explosives,
> 
> ✦  improvised explosive devices,
> ✦  detonators, detonating cords chemical components,
> ✦  trafficking of military and dual-use materials and equipment that could be used for the illegal manufacture of arms and armaments, including explosive and incideary devices;​
> HAMAS, and all its associated terrorist and criminal allies _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ know very well why it is necessary for Israel to continue to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip.  And that will probably continue until such time as the Arab Palestinians decide to:
> 
> ◈  Acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Israel,
> 
> ◈  Live in peace → free from using threats or acts of force and violence against its neighbors,​
> I believe they make such threats as you have noticed in order to keep donor funding to arrive and line the pockets of corrupt government officials.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Agreed, Rocco. 

Hamas is in quite a predicament. While their Charter is unequivocal in its goal of the destruction of Israel and a return of the area as an Islamist _waqf_, there is the undeniable force of the Israeli military. 

Another predicament facing Hamas is the flow of Iranian welfare money that comes with some obvious conditions. Clearly, Shia Iran is not a benovolent entity acting with a sense of compassion for their Sunni oppressors. My opinion is that Hamas faces Iranian pressure to strike at Israel. 

Egypt is not at all comfortable with Iranian forces in Lebanon and now staged in Gaza. 

Growing Hamas-Iran ties are causing concern in Egypt


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This "warning" of sorts _(will not abide Israel continuing to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip in 2020)_ is strange indeed.   The mere fact that The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) is demanding passage through UN Member State through lethal intimidation of its population in an attempt to compel its government → to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act → will almost guarantee that Israel will not take any action that appears to acquiesce to the demands of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. Retrograde Islamic terrorists making bellicose demands.
> I suppose if their demands aren’t met, they’ll, you know, make more demands.
> •  Hamas says it won’t accept Israel dragging feet on lifting Gaza blockade  •
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It almost appears that HAMAS is intentionally antagonizing Israel _(both the people and government)_ in such a way as to prolong stringent activities that include _(but not limited to)_:
> 
> ◈  Actions that investigate, disrupt and dismantle organized criminal networks and  complement international cooperation by taking additional measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the financing and preparation of any acts of terrorism,
> 
> ◈  Prevent the entry into or the transit through their territories of these hostile individuals, and further preventing terrorists from acquiring weapons,
> 
> ◈  Implement countermeasures that hinder the flow of foreign terrorist fighters,
> 
> ◈  In preventing illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of all types of explosives,
> 
> ✦  improvised explosive devices,
> ✦  detonators, detonating cords chemical components,
> ✦  trafficking of military and dual-use materials and equipment that could be used for the illegal manufacture of arms and armaments, including explosive and incideary devices;​
> HAMAS, and all its associated terrorist and criminal allies _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ know very well why it is necessary for Israel to continue to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip.  And that will probably continue until such time as the Arab Palestinians decide to:
> 
> ◈  Acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Israel,
> 
> ◈  Live in peace → free from using threats or acts of force and violence against its neighbors,​
> I believe they make such threats as you have noticed in order to keep donor funding to arrive and line the pockets of corrupt government officials.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Cool hit piece, Rocco.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This "warning" of sorts _(will not abide Israel continuing to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip in 2020)_ is strange indeed.   The mere fact that The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) is demanding passage through UN Member State through lethal intimidation of its population in an attempt to compel its government → to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act → will almost guarantee that Israel will not take any action that appears to acquiesce to the demands of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. Retrograde Islamic terrorists making bellicose demands.
> I suppose if their demands aren’t met, they’ll, you know, make more demands.
> •  Hamas says it won’t accept Israel dragging feet on lifting Gaza blockade  •
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It almost appears that HAMAS is intentionally antagonizing Israel _(both the people and government)_ in such a way as to prolong stringent activities that include _(but not limited to)_:
> 
> ◈  Actions that investigate, disrupt and dismantle organized criminal networks and  complement international cooperation by taking additional measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the financing and preparation of any acts of terrorism,
> 
> ◈  Prevent the entry into or the transit through their territories of these hostile individuals, and further preventing terrorists from acquiring weapons,
> 
> ◈  Implement countermeasures that hinder the flow of foreign terrorist fighters,
> 
> ◈  In preventing illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of all types of explosives,
> 
> ✦  improvised explosive devices,
> ✦  detonators, detonating cords chemical components,
> ✦  trafficking of military and dual-use materials and equipment that could be used for the illegal manufacture of arms and armaments, including explosive and incideary devices;​
> HAMAS, and all its associated terrorist and criminal allies _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ know very well why it is necessary for Israel to continue to restrict the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip.  And that will probably continue until such time as the Arab Palestinians decide to:
> 
> ◈  Acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Israel,
> 
> ◈  Live in peace → free from using threats or acts of force and violence against its neighbors,​
> I believe they make such threats as you have noticed in order to keep donor funding to arrive and line the pockets of corrupt government officials.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool hit piece, Rocco.
Click to expand...


Is deflection all you got?

That's a rhetorical question, btw.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the IDF resistance forces played and
 won "Whack a Mole Islamic Terrorist".


IDF attacks underground Hamas terror cell

The IDF attacked an underground Hamas terror cell which stood in the northern Gaza Strip, according to the IDF.



The Shia Mullocrats will need to cut another welfare check for their Sunni lackeys.


----------



## Hollie

"Peaceful Inner Strugglers" and the right of return. 






A Nazi swastika flag raised on the Israel-Gaza Strip border, Friday, Aug. 2, 2019.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The foreign media and human rights organizations seem quite uninterested in Palestinians who are arrested or tortured to death by PA security forces. After all, they have not been arrested by Israel for security-related offences.


The European Union is said to be pressuring the Palestinians to hold long overdue presidential and parliamentary elections. It is not clear, however, how the Palestinians would hold new elections at a time when the PA and Hamas are busy in the West Bank and Gaza Strip locking up their political opponents.


The "political arrests" are yet another indication of human rights violations perpetrated by Palestinian leaders against their own people. Inexplicably, though, the EU appears unfazed by them. Instead of pressuring the PA and Hamas to hold elections -- that in any case neither side seeks, as it would almost certainly hand a further victory to the terrorist group Hamas -- it would be better for the EU to encourage Palestinian leaders, as a first step towards holding free elections, at least to cease and desist making political arrests.


Failing to hold Palestinian leaders accountable for their human rights violations casts serious doubt on the EU's desire to hold new elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and their deeper, seemingly malign desires for the region as a whole.

(full article online)

The Palestinians and Europe's Secret Agenda


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The foreign media and human rights organizations seem quite uninterested in Palestinians who are arrested or tortured to death by PA security forces. After all, they have not been arrested by Israel for security-related offences.
> 
> 
> The European Union is said to be pressuring the Palestinians to hold long overdue presidential and parliamentary elections. It is not clear, however, how the Palestinians would hold new elections at a time when the PA and Hamas are busy in the West Bank and Gaza Strip locking up their political opponents.
> 
> 
> The "political arrests" are yet another indication of human rights violations perpetrated by Palestinian leaders against their own people. Inexplicably, though, the EU appears unfazed by them. Instead of pressuring the PA and Hamas to hold elections -- that in any case neither side seeks, as it would almost certainly hand a further victory to the terrorist group Hamas -- it would be better for the EU to encourage Palestinian leaders, as a first step towards holding free elections, at least to cease and desist making political arrests.
> 
> 
> Failing to hold Palestinian leaders accountable for their human rights violations casts serious doubt on the EU's desire to hold new elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and their deeper, seemingly malign desires for the region as a whole.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinians and Europe's Secret Agenda


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign media and human rights organizations seem quite uninterested in Palestinians who are arrested or tortured to death by PA security forces. After all, they have not been arrested by Israel for security-related offences.
> 
> 
> The European Union is said to be pressuring the Palestinians to hold long overdue presidential and parliamentary elections. It is not clear, however, how the Palestinians would hold new elections at a time when the PA and Hamas are busy in the West Bank and Gaza Strip locking up their political opponents.
> 
> 
> The "political arrests" are yet another indication of human rights violations perpetrated by Palestinian leaders against their own people. Inexplicably, though, the EU appears unfazed by them. Instead of pressuring the PA and Hamas to hold elections -- that in any case neither side seeks, as it would almost certainly hand a further victory to the terrorist group Hamas -- it would be better for the EU to encourage Palestinian leaders, as a first step towards holding free elections, at least to cease and desist making political arrests.
> 
> 
> Failing to hold Palestinian leaders accountable for their human rights violations casts serious doubt on the EU's desire to hold new elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and their deeper, seemingly malign desires for the region as a whole.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinians and Europe's Secret Agenda
Click to expand...


It’s remarkable how much the welfare dependent Arab-Moslem squatters spend on silly fashion parades.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The retrograde Arabs-Moslems have found another reason to hate each other. The Shia heretics in Hamas have managed to antagonize Egypt, other Sunni Arabs in the region and possibly re-start their civil war with Fatah. 

It’s always some new disaster to witness with these idiots. They will never fail to invent some excuse to be outraged about something that offends their tender islamo-sensibilities. 

Let’s see if they re-kindle their civil war and bodies begin littering the streets, 

Good times. 


Hamas-Fatah division deepens with Soleimani’s assassination

*Hamas-Fatah division deepens with Soleimani’s assassination*

Ahmad Melhem January 17, 2020 






ARTICLE SUMMARY
Palestinians express conflicting opinions over the US assassination of Iran's Gen. Qasem Soleimani in Iraq, while faction leaders praise him as a martyr.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign media and human rights organizations seem quite uninterested in Palestinians who are arrested or tortured to death by PA security forces. After all, they have not been arrested by Israel for security-related offences.
> 
> 
> The European Union is said to be pressuring the Palestinians to hold long overdue presidential and parliamentary elections. It is not clear, however, how the Palestinians would hold new elections at a time when the PA and Hamas are busy in the West Bank and Gaza Strip locking up their political opponents.
> 
> 
> The "political arrests" are yet another indication of human rights violations perpetrated by Palestinian leaders against their own people. Inexplicably, though, the EU appears unfazed by them. Instead of pressuring the PA and Hamas to hold elections -- that in any case neither side seeks, as it would almost certainly hand a further victory to the terrorist group Hamas -- it would be better for the EU to encourage Palestinian leaders, as a first step towards holding free elections, at least to cease and desist making political arrests.
> 
> 
> Failing to hold Palestinian leaders accountable for their human rights violations casts serious doubt on the EU's desire to hold new elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and their deeper, seemingly malign desires for the region as a whole.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The Palestinians and Europe's Secret Agenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s remarkable how much the welfare dependent Arab-Moslem squatters spend on silly fashion parades.
Click to expand...


They want to look good when they lose.


----------



## Hollie

Yes. Not surprising that relations between Hamas (the Shia errand boys), and the KSA are strained. Iranian backed Houti have been waging a low level insurgency against Saudi Arabia for years.

The Shia wannabe in Hamas has made some enemies that share a 1,400 year old blood feud.



Official: Hamas relations with Saudi Arabia ‘estranged’


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  et al,

In the Timeline and Chronology of what is relevant and important over the establishment of the Jewish State, too many panelist and discussions get bogged-down in historical complications that had a philosophical impact on why the leaders at the San Remo Convention thought the way they did ⟴ and why the post-World War II leaders thought the way they did.  These were • _The Causal Effects_ • of discrete and indivisible manifestation of political and impartial adjudications of long-overdue wrongs the Jewish People faced over an extended period of history.  And in the aftermath of The Great War (1914-18) and World War II (1939-45) leaders of great renown emerged and made such decisions that reshaped parts of the world and corrected injustices they recognized from the past as they saw it.  One such issue addressed by these leaders was the issue of the Jews.  It was recognized by both the post-War leaders of the two World Wars.  And these leaders made decisions of such political and diplomatic momentum that we still grapple with them today.

No nation is perfect and no system of government is perfect.  These are two assumptions that we have to keep in mind.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​While interesting, and somewhat explanatory, historical facts are not really once a decision has been actually implemented.  I know we read where people have argued that A/RES/181 (II) was never implemented.  That is a philosophical expression and interpretation of fancy.  It is NOT relevant to reality.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)* Because an actual physical examination on the ground discloses that a real country exists.  It has people who control the area bounded by actual physical boundary markers.   The reality of it cannot be denied.

Another very odd feature observable in the discussion is the forced imposition of views.  Relative to this discussion, we find that one side makes the claim:  "The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void."  And while today, The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate may be considered historical documents, "everything that has been based on them" is as real as ever; not "null and void."  It is an invalid and unsound claim → valid IF and ONLY IF all the premises are true; assuming that we are all in the same reality.

One other flight of fantasy needs to be brushed up against reality.  In the argument of the "Right of Return" how many actual Arab Palestinians today once lived in Israel to claim a "Right to Return?"  Given that life expectancy before 1970 was less than 70 years old, how many Arab Palestinians are still alive, assuming such a "Right" actually exist?  

*(THE POINT)*

As the San Remo Convention remarked about the historical connection, the reality is, that over 8 Million People are living in Israel.  Israel has a permanent population; a defined territory; government; and a demonstrated capacity to enter into relations with the other states.  That is the "physical" reality.  You can go there, count the people, walk the perimeter of the nation, and reflect on all the foreign agreements Israel has signed.  Anyone can readily observe that the territory formerly administered under the Mandate of Palestine is NOT an indivisible territorial unit, as some Arab Palestinians would claim.  

Finally, to claim that  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine;" or that "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" is simply NOT a part of reality.

*IF* one would wish to remain both sound and valid in the contributions towards peace, *THEN* one would have to avoid unrealistic ideas or fantastic notions, a pipe dreams such as these.

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> In the Timeline and Chronology of what is relevant and important over the establishment of the Jewish State, too many panelist and discussions get bogged-down in historical complications that had a philosophical impact on why the leaders at the San Remo Convention thought the way they did ⟴ and why the post-World War II leaders thought the way they did.  These were • _The Causal Effects_ • of discrete and indivisible manifestation of political and impartial adjudications of long-overdue wrongs the Jewish People faced over an extended period of history.  And in the aftermath of The Great War (1914-18) and World War II (1939-45) leaders of great renown emerged and made such decisions that reshaped parts of the world and corrected injustices they recognized from the past as they saw it.  One such issue addressed by these leaders was the issue of the Jews.  It was recognized by both the post-War leaders of the two World Wars.  And these leaders made decisions of such political and diplomatic momentum that we still grapple with them today.
> 
> No nation is perfect and no system of government is perfect.  These are two assumptions that we have to keep in mind.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​While interesting, and somewhat explanatory, historical facts are not really once a decision has been actually implemented.  I know we read where people have argued that A/RES/181 (II) was never implemented.  That is a philosophical expression and interpretation of fancy.  It is NOT relevant to reality.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)* Because an actual physical examination on the ground discloses that a real country exists.  It has people who control the area bounded by actual physical boundary markers.   The reality of it cannot be denied.
> 
> Another very odd feature observable in the discussion is the forced imposition of views.  Relative to this discussion, we find that one side makes the claim:  "The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void."  And while today, The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate may be considered historical documents, "everything that has been based on them" is as real as ever; not "null and void."  It is an invalid and unsound claim → valid IF and ONLY IF all the premises are true; assuming that we are all in the same reality.
> 
> One other flight of fantasy needs to be brushed up against reality.  In the argument of the "Right of Return" how many actual Arab Palestinians today once lived in Israel to claim a "Right to Return?"  Given that life expectancy before 1970 was less than 70 years old, how many Arab Palestinians are still alive, assuming such a "Right" actually exist?
> 
> *(THE POINT)*
> 
> As the San Remo Convention remarked about the historical connection, the reality is, that over 8 Million People are living in Israel.  Israel has a permanent population; a defined territory; government; and a demonstrated capacity to enter into relations with the other states.  That is the "physical" reality.  You can go there, count the people, walk the perimeter of the nation, and reflect on all the foreign agreements Israel has signed.  Anyone can readily observe that the territory formerly administered under the Mandate of Palestine is NOT an indivisible territorial unit, as some Arab Palestinians would claim.
> 
> Finally, to claim that  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine;" or that "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" is simply NOT a part of reality.
> 
> *IF* one would wish to remain both sound and valid in the contributions towards peace, *THEN* one would have to avoid unrealistic ideas or fantastic notions, a pipe dreams such as these.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R



Rocco. I thought it worthwhile to address the last part of your post in detail. In addition to the above, there are other statements that express an ideology rooted in supremacism. When Khalifah Omar took Jerusalem in 638 CE, he made Israel an Islamic waqf. In their charter, Hamas demonstrates how their right to destroy Israel is simply an Islamic obligation through the principle of waqf:

"...Israel will rise and will remain erect until eliminated by Islam... [Introduction] 

"... Palestine is an Islamic waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection. [Article 11] 

"... …the liberation of Palestine is an individual duty binding on all Muslims everywhere. [Article 13] 

"... In order to face the theft of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad. [Article 15] 

"... When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. [Article 15] 


These are not the aberrant words of _extremists_. They are the prescriptions of mainstream Islamism, derived from the koran and sunnah. In the supremacist ideology of Islam, the concerns of the rest of the world are secondary to the Moslems' mission of conquest and settlement. This includes any land upon which a nation was legitimately established by an indigenous people. Once it's taken by war in the conquest of gee-had, It's "Moslem" forever.. The original inhabitants may live there if they are monotheists, but only in submission to Islamic law. Land which was once part of the greater Moslemah may once again fall back into the hands of the original population, but eventually the mujahedeen must rise again to reclaim it. We are reminded of this more recently in the Balkans. Islamism plays for keeps.

When the holy warriors of the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades killed scores of unarmed and unsuspecting Spanish mothers, sons, kids, and the elderly in cold blood on 3/11, it was a legitimate response—as per Sharia—to Spain's involvement in a war against Islam. It was made all the more satisfying to Moslems because of the humiliating, burning memory of _la reconquista_. That the ummah can be subject to the same fate as any one without faith in being expelled from a colonized land is a painful blow to the arrogant, yet fragile, Moslem psyche. And Islam provides ample recourse for punishing retribution in Muhammud's name.

The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades stated explicitly that their attacks on Spain were revenge for the loss of al-Andalus in 1492. Their statement read, in part: "This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam.” 
Al-Qaida Group Takes Credit for Train Blasts in Madrid


According to an older article in *the Saudi Gazette*, the supposed descendants of the expelled Morisco invaders still observe the event with melodrama each year. And they were also demanding an apology from Spain's King Juan Carlos.

"T_oday, up to four million grandsons of the Moriscos are living in North African countries like Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia."_

_They used to commemorate every year these painful memories to keep the agonies of their forebears vivid, Moroccan historian Bin Azouz Hakim, a specialist in the history of the Moriscos, told IslamOnline.net Sunday._

_Morsicos's descendants in Morocco, who are concentrated in cities like Tangier, Fes, Marrakesh and Rabat, mark every year the fall of Granada and Al-Andalus, which was regained in 1492 by Spanish troops in the long process known as the Reconquista under the Catholic monarchs Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon_." 


The very dead ''Osama "Papa gee-had" bin Laden has spoken of the "tragedy of al-Andalus" and the obligation of Muslims to reconquer the erstwhile Islamic colony on the Iberian Peninsula.

Lets remember that after September 11, Moslems proposed the “Cordoba House” just blocks from the WTC site.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> In the Timeline and Chronology of what is relevant and important over the establishment of the Jewish State, too many panelist and discussions get bogged-down in historical complications that had a philosophical impact on why the leaders at the San Remo Convention thought the way they did ⟴ and why the post-World War II leaders thought the way they did.  These were • _The Causal Effects_ • of discrete and indivisible manifestation of political and impartial adjudications of long-overdue wrongs the Jewish People faced over an extended period of history.  And in the aftermath of The Great War (1914-18) and World War II (1939-45) leaders of great renown emerged and made such decisions that reshaped parts of the world and corrected injustices they recognized from the past as they saw it.  One such issue addressed by these leaders was the issue of the Jews.  It was recognized by both the post-War leaders of the two World Wars.  And these leaders made decisions of such political and diplomatic momentum that we still grapple with them today.
> 
> No nation is perfect and no system of government is perfect.  These are two assumptions that we have to keep in mind.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​While interesting, and somewhat explanatory, historical facts are not really once a decision has been actually implemented.  I know we read where people have argued that A/RES/181 (II) was never implemented.  That is a philosophical expression and interpretation of fancy.  It is NOT relevant to reality.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)* Because an actual physical examination on the ground discloses that a real country exists.  It has people who control the area bounded by actual physical boundary markers.   The reality of it cannot be denied.
> 
> Another very odd feature observable in the discussion is the forced imposition of views.  Relative to this discussion, we find that one side makes the claim:  "The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void."  And while today, The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate may be considered historical documents, "everything that has been based on them" is as real as ever; not "null and void."  It is an invalid and unsound claim → valid IF and ONLY IF all the premises are true; assuming that we are all in the same reality.
> 
> One other flight of fantasy needs to be brushed up against reality.  In the argument of the "Right of Return" how many actual Arab Palestinians today once lived in Israel to claim a "Right to Return?"  Given that life expectancy before 1970 was less than 70 years old, how many Arab Palestinians are still alive, assuming such a "Right" actually exist?
> 
> *(THE POINT)*
> 
> As the San Remo Convention remarked about the historical connection, the reality is, that over 8 Million People are living in Israel.  Israel has a permanent population; a defined territory; government; and a demonstrated capacity to enter into relations with the other states.  That is the "physical" reality.  You can go there, count the people, walk the perimeter of the nation, and reflect on all the foreign agreements Israel has signed.  Anyone can readily observe that the territory formerly administered under the Mandate of Palestine is NOT an indivisible territorial unit, as some Arab Palestinians would claim.
> 
> Finally, to claim that  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine;" or that "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" is simply NOT a part of reality.
> 
> *IF* one would wish to remain both sound and valid in the contributions towards peace, *THEN* one would have to avoid unrealistic ideas or fantastic notions, a pipe dreams such as these.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R


WOW, so much foreign interference!

*The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - A keynote lecture by Rashid Khalidi*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> In the Timeline and Chronology of what is relevant and important over the establishment of the Jewish State, too many panelist and discussions get bogged-down in historical complications that had a philosophical impact on why the leaders at the San Remo Convention thought the way they did ⟴ and why the post-World War II leaders thought the way they did.  These were • _The Causal Effects_ • of discrete and indivisible manifestation of political and impartial adjudications of long-overdue wrongs the Jewish People faced over an extended period of history.  And in the aftermath of The Great War (1914-18) and World War II (1939-45) leaders of great renown emerged and made such decisions that reshaped parts of the world and corrected injustices they recognized from the past as they saw it.  One such issue addressed by these leaders was the issue of the Jews.  It was recognized by both the post-War leaders of the two World Wars.  And these leaders made decisions of such political and diplomatic momentum that we still grapple with them today.
> 
> No nation is perfect and no system of government is perfect.  These are two assumptions that we have to keep in mind.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​While interesting, and somewhat explanatory, historical facts are not really once a decision has been actually implemented.  I know we read where people have argued that A/RES/181 (II) was never implemented.  That is a philosophical expression and interpretation of fancy.  It is NOT relevant to reality.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)* Because an actual physical examination on the ground discloses that a real country exists.  It has people who control the area bounded by actual physical boundary markers.   The reality of it cannot be denied.
> 
> Another very odd feature observable in the discussion is the forced imposition of views.  Relative to this discussion, we find that one side makes the claim:  "The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void."  And while today, The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate may be considered historical documents, "everything that has been based on them" is as real as ever; not "null and void."  It is an invalid and unsound claim → valid IF and ONLY IF all the premises are true; assuming that we are all in the same reality.
> 
> One other flight of fantasy needs to be brushed up against reality.  In the argument of the "Right of Return" how many actual Arab Palestinians today once lived in Israel to claim a "Right to Return?"  Given that life expectancy before 1970 was less than 70 years old, how many Arab Palestinians are still alive, assuming such a "Right" actually exist?
> 
> *(THE POINT)*
> 
> As the San Remo Convention remarked about the historical connection, the reality is, that over 8 Million People are living in Israel.  Israel has a permanent population; a defined territory; government; and a demonstrated capacity to enter into relations with the other states.  That is the "physical" reality.  You can go there, count the people, walk the perimeter of the nation, and reflect on all the foreign agreements Israel has signed.  Anyone can readily observe that the territory formerly administered under the Mandate of Palestine is NOT an indivisible territorial unit, as some Arab Palestinians would claim.
> 
> Finally, to claim that  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine;" or that "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" is simply NOT a part of reality.
> 
> *IF* one would wish to remain both sound and valid in the contributions towards peace, *THEN* one would have to avoid unrealistic ideas or fantastic notions, a pipe dreams such as these.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so much foreign interference!
> 
> *The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - A keynote lecture by Rashid Khalidi*
Click to expand...


Wow, so much nonsense.


----------



## Sixties Fan

LBC: Maajid Nawaz takes down caller who said Hamas are not terrorists

When this caller claimed Hamas were "resistance fighters" against the terrorist state of Israel, Maajid Nawaz gave him a few facts.
Khalid from Swindon insisted that Hamas were simply trying to protect and free the Palestinians.

But when he claimed that they were peaceful and only "throw rockets here and there", Maajid decided to teach him a few things. Maajid told him: "Sheikh Qaradawi is an Egyptian Muslim brotherhood cleric, based in Qatar. That extremist gave a fatwa to Hamas, saying it's ok to kill Israeli civilians.

"The reason I'm explaining all this to you is because you said Israel does that.

"I asked you to point to the specific law where Israel does that and you said you can't. I then pointed to the specific fatwa - because for Hamas, a fatwa is law.

"So Hamas admits to killing Israeli citizens. Israel doesn't have a law that justifies killing Palestinian civilians.

"So therefore, Hamas is a terrorist group. Israel may be many things, but isn't targeting Palestinian civilians."

(f=vide video online)

Maajid Nawaz takes down caller who said Hamas are not terrorists


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> In the Timeline and Chronology of what is relevant and important over the establishment of the Jewish State, too many panelist and discussions get bogged-down in historical complications that had a philosophical impact on why the leaders at the San Remo Convention thought the way they did ⟴ and why the post-World War II leaders thought the way they did.  These were • _The Causal Effects_ • of discrete and indivisible manifestation of political and impartial adjudications of long-overdue wrongs the Jewish People faced over an extended period of history.  And in the aftermath of The Great War (1914-18) and World War II (1939-45) leaders of great renown emerged and made such decisions that reshaped parts of the world and corrected injustices they recognized from the past as they saw it.  One such issue addressed by these leaders was the issue of the Jews.  It was recognized by both the post-War leaders of the two World Wars.  And these leaders made decisions of such political and diplomatic momentum that we still grapple with them today.
> 
> No nation is perfect and no system of government is perfect.  These are two assumptions that we have to keep in mind.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​While interesting, and somewhat explanatory, historical facts are not really once a decision has been actually implemented.  I know we read where people have argued that A/RES/181 (II) was never implemented.  That is a philosophical expression and interpretation of fancy.  It is NOT relevant to reality.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)* Because an actual physical examination on the ground discloses that a real country exists.  It has people who control the area bounded by actual physical boundary markers.   The reality of it cannot be denied.
> 
> Another very odd feature observable in the discussion is the forced imposition of views.  Relative to this discussion, we find that one side makes the claim:  "The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void."  And while today, The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate may be considered historical documents, "everything that has been based on them" is as real as ever; not "null and void."  It is an invalid and unsound claim → valid IF and ONLY IF all the premises are true; assuming that we are all in the same reality.
> 
> One other flight of fantasy needs to be brushed up against reality.  In the argument of the "Right of Return" how many actual Arab Palestinians today once lived in Israel to claim a "Right to Return?"  Given that life expectancy before 1970 was less than 70 years old, how many Arab Palestinians are still alive, assuming such a "Right" actually exist?
> 
> *(THE POINT)*
> 
> As the San Remo Convention remarked about the historical connection, the reality is, that over 8 Million People are living in Israel.  Israel has a permanent population; a defined territory; government; and a demonstrated capacity to enter into relations with the other states.  That is the "physical" reality.  You can go there, count the people, walk the perimeter of the nation, and reflect on all the foreign agreements Israel has signed.  Anyone can readily observe that the territory formerly administered under the Mandate of Palestine is NOT an indivisible territorial unit, as some Arab Palestinians would claim.
> 
> Finally, to claim that  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine;" or that "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" is simply NOT a part of reality.
> 
> *IF* one would wish to remain both sound and valid in the contributions towards peace, *THEN* one would have to avoid unrealistic ideas or fantastic notions, a pipe dreams such as these.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so much foreign interference!
> 
> *The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - A keynote lecture by Rashid Khalidi*
> 
> **
Click to expand...




LOL !! As usual, instead of coming up with a rebuttal, you post a video.... How Tinmorish of you....


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

There are different levels and aspects of "foreign interference."   Of recent note, foreign interference has come to include actions taken by foreign actors designed to malign the host nation, to sow discord, manipulate public discourse, discredit the normal course of government, and spread bias the internal defense and security measures.

Foreign Interference does not normally mean to include International Armed Conflicts (IAC), especially IACs that are on the scale of the two World Wars.



P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, so much foreign interference!


*(COMMENT)*

Foreign Interference does not include actions taken to bring under control former Occupied Enemy Territory under proper Administration after a defeated party, through a Peace Agreement, renounced and relinquished all rights and title to a territory as a concession.  

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There are different levels and aspects of "foreign interference."   Of recent note, foreign interference has come to include actions taken by foreign actors designed to malign the host nation, to sow discord, manipulate public discourse, discredit the normal course of government, and spread bias the internal defense and security measures.
> 
> Foreign Interference does not normally mean to include International Armed Conflicts (IAC), especially IACs that are on the scale of the two World Wars.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so much foreign interference!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Foreign Interference does not include actions taken to bring under control former Occupied Enemy Territory under proper Administration after a defeated party, through a Peace Agreement, renounced and relinquished all rights and title to a territory as a concession.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Foreign Interference does not include actions taken to bring under control former Occupied Enemy Territory under proper Administration after a defeated party, through a Peace Agreement, renounced and relinquished all rights and title to a territory as a concession.


Well that's not what happened.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There are different levels and aspects of "foreign interference."   Of recent note, foreign interference has come to include actions taken by foreign actors designed to malign the host nation, to sow discord, manipulate public discourse, discredit the normal course of government, and spread bias the internal defense and security measures.
> 
> Foreign Interference does not normally mean to include International Armed Conflicts (IAC), especially IACs that are on the scale of the two World Wars.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so much foreign interference!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Foreign Interference does not include actions taken to bring under control former Occupied Enemy Territory under proper Administration after a defeated party, through a Peace Agreement, renounced and relinquished all rights and title to a territory as a concession.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Interference does not include actions taken to bring under control former Occupied Enemy Territory under proper Administration after a defeated party, through a Peace Agreement, renounced and relinquished all rights and title to a territory as a concession.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that's not what happened.
Click to expand...


Well, yes. That’s what happened. Your attempts to re-write history lead to some pretty comical inventions.


----------



## Hollie

*Report: the IDF will, at some point, announce the deaths of Islamic terrorist knuckleheads who are confused no more. 



Report: Hamas to Restart ‘Confusion Units’ Activity*

By Dov Benovadia

Report: Hamas to Restart 'Confusion Units' Activity | Hamodia.com

Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 3:35 am | כ"ב טבת תש"פ
*YERUSHALAYIM* -
In another sign that tensions with Gaza are on the upswing, Hamas announced that beginning Sunday night it would redeploy its “confusion units,” groups that play loud music and shine lights along the Gaza border in order to interfere with the sleep of Israelis who live in the area. Hamas has used the groups before, but halted their activities after IDF action


----------



## Sixties Fan

As over 40 world leaders gather in Jerusalem this week to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz at the event _Remembering the Holocaust: Fighting Antisemitism_, the Palestinian Authority wants to disrupt the ceremony. The official PA daily published an op-ed yesterday literally calling for murder in order to ruin the ceremony:

“*One shot will disrupt the ceremony and one dead body will cancel the ceremony*.”

[Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Jan. 18, 2020]

Before calling for murder, regular PA daily columnist Yahya Rabah criticized the international community for recognizing that the “Jews' Holocaust is terrible” while accepting as “insignificant, beautiful, [and] spectacular” what he called the “Palestinian holocaust by Israel that still continues.” Rabah warned: “It can be assumed that they [Palestinians] will resist the ceremony being held in Jerusalem itself, as Jerusalem is theirs.” His suggested solution to stopping the international ceremony from taking place – and which the official PA daily printed - is murder.

(full article online)

PA daily calls for murder to stop Holocaust ceremony in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> *Report: the IDF will, at some point, announce the deaths of Islamic terrorist knuckleheads who are confused no more.
> 
> 
> 
> Report: Hamas to Restart ‘Confusion Units’ Activity*
> 
> By Dov Benovadia
> 
> Report: Hamas to Restart 'Confusion Units' Activity | Hamodia.com
> 
> Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 3:35 am | כ"ב טבת תש"פ
> *YERUSHALAYIM* -
> In another sign that tensions with Gaza are on the upswing, Hamas announced that beginning Sunday night it would redeploy its “confusion units,” groups that play loud music and shine lights along the Gaza border in order to interfere with the sleep of Israelis who live in the area. Hamas has used the groups before, but halted their activities after IDF action



Islamic desperation lol !


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Most of the general population of Arab Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip (WB & GS) are affiliated or otherwise associated with one band or another of violent organizations (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters).  And they all advocate actions that will "incite" terrorist or other criminal acts that violate international law.  There are three primary international instruments that deal with this issue:

_*[Article 20 • *__*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Adopted: 1966 EIF: 1976)] *_ Realizing that the individual, having duties to other individuals and to the community to which he belongs, is under a responsibility to strive for the promotion and observance of the rights recognized in the present Covenant, 

Agree upon the following articles: 

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
1.  *[S/RES/1624 (2005)]*  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures, as may be necessary and appropriate, in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)  Prevent such conduct;

(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​_*[Article 7 • Crimes against humanity • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]*_  For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

(a)  Murder;​


Observation Made by Sixties Fan said:


> “*One shot will disrupt the ceremony and one dead body will cancel the ceremony*.”
> [Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Jan. 18, 2020]
> (full article online)
> PA daily calls for murder to stop Holocaust ceremony in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis


*(COMMENT)*

The short response is:  The Arab Palestinians of the WB & GS do not believe that they have to act responsibly.  The Arab Palestinians of the WB & GS believe that there is legitimacy in their armed struggle for what they consider → independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from Israel and foreign domination and occupation.  The Arab Palestinians of the WB & GS believe they have a right to use all available means, particularly armed struggle.  The Arab Palestinians of the WB & GS believe they have a right to direct attacks intended to harm Israel as the Occupying Power, and all allies of Israel _(including civilians)_.

It will be interesting to see if any members of the international community or mainstream media notice this transgression.

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah franchise of the UNRWA welfare fraud is in a kerfuffle regarding a gathering of world leaders in Jerusalem. 

As you might expect, the best they could offer was 
*


PA daily calls for murder to stop Holocaust ceremony in Jerusalem*
Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2020

PA daily calls for murder to stop Holocaust ceremony in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis

As over 40 world leaders gather in Jerusalem this week to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz at the event _Remembering the Holocaust: Fighting Antisemitism_, the Palestinian Authority wants to disrupt the ceremony. The official PA daily published an op-ed yesterday literally calling for murder in order to ruin the ceremony:

“*One shot will disrupt the ceremony and one dead body will cancel the ceremony*.”

[Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Jan. 18, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

What a collection of twisted Islamics who choose to endanger their children


----------



## Hollie

Child abuse, not child’s play


One of the saddest aspects of this horrible campaign is the cynical use of children by Hamas. 

Kites and balloons, of course, have always been associated with picnics, family outings and the playful, carefree life of children, who should be shielded from the ravages of war by decent, protective grown-ups, rather than deliberately and enthusiastically brought into the field of battle. But for Hamas, whose sole raison d’etre is killing Jews and destroying the Land of Israel, there are simply no redlines, no limits to their hate-filled and obscene acts of violence. On the ground, under the ground and, now, in the air, the Palestinians will turn any object – even the harmless toys and balloons of an innocent child – into an instrument of death and destruction.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinians: Jihadi-Style Child Abuse
Children in this world do not dream about becoming doctors, pilots or engineers; an entire generation of Palestinians, particularly those in the Gaza Strip, has been raised on the glorification of suicide bombers and anyone who kills a Jew.


Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other radical groups see children as future "soldiers" in the war to eliminate Israel. They raise children to regard to suicide bombers and jihadis as role models.


This form of child abuse does not seem to bother human rights organizations or UNICEF, whose declared goal is to "work for a world in which every child has a fair chance in life and a right to survive, thrive and fulfill their potential..." UNICEF apparently does not believe its mandate extends to Palestinian children, who are exploited to serve the interests of Islamist groups.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter


----------



## Hollie

The downside to an Islamic Death Cult is that even non-Islamics and those on the periphery are exposed to the dangers of the Cult.




Submission to UN urges rights for Palestinian, Israeli children subjected to Hamas abuse

The report provides evidence that Palestinian groups have subjected children to “arbitrary detention and torture … inundating children with messages of hate and violence,” as well as “encouraging them to kill Israelis and become martyrs in the struggle to liberate all of Israel [from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea] for Palestine.”


----------



## Hollie

The enterprise of the gee-had rolls on. A primitive ideology attempting to use modern day technology.



IDC identifies Hamas bitcoin front with Iran links - report

A website called “cash4ps” enables Hamas to send and receive money out of Gaza for operational terror purposes while simultaneously providing a measure of anonymity to either donors or beneficiaries.

IDC’s International Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) has identified a bitcoin front for Hamas which has links to Iran in a report exclusively obtained by_ The Jerusalem Post_.

According to the IDC-ICT Cyber desk report, the al-Nasr Brigades – Lawa al-Tawahid – serve as the military arm of the Popular Resistance Committees, was formed in 2001 by Jamal Abu Samhadna Abu Atayya and operates under the auspices of Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

Islamism. 1,400 years.
*


UN report: Widespread child abuse in Palestinian Authority*
UNICEF reports large number of Palestinian Arab girls forced into child marriages, rampant beatings of children, and forced labor.

UN report: Widespread child abuse in Palestinian Authority







A new report by the United Nations Children’s Fund revealed rampant child abuse in the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian Arab communities in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan, including rape, forced marriages, and beatings.

According to the UNICEF report, "2% of all Palestinian women aged 15 to 49 years married before the age of 15." In addition, the report noted that nearly one quarter of Palestinian Arab women "marry" before the age of 18.


----------



## Mindful

MYTH

_The Holocaust was not unique to Jews; Palestinians are also victims of genocide._

*FACT*
Palestinian propagandists sometimes accuse Israel of committing genocide and compare what has and is  happening to the Palestinians to the Holocaust.

The British Labour Party’s John McDonnell, for example, accused Israel in 2012 of “an attempt at genocide against the Palestinians” (Harry Yorke, “John McDonnell condemned for claiming Israel was attempting to carry out ‘genocide’ against Palestinians,” _The Telegraph_, (August 8, 2018). Similarly, Haidar Eid called Israel’s policies in Gaza “genocidal” (Mondoweiss, August 3, 2018). Michael Hoffman and Moshe Lieberman authored a book, _The Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians_, which purports to document “the horrendous atrocities which the Israelis visit upon the Palestinians.”

The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines genocide as engaging in any of the following “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.”

Israel has never engaged in any campaign to bring about the destruction of the Palestinian people. If you have any doubt consider that during the British Mandate, there were 1.3 million Arabs. According to CIA estimates, the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza today is nearly 5 million (_The World Factbook_, CIA). If Israel were engaged in genocide, it has been a dismal failure.

Israel welcomed all Palestinians who remained in the country after it declared independence as equal citizens. Since then, Israel has repeatedly made peace offers to the Palestinians in the disputed territories in hope of coexisting with them. 

The Palestinians may suffer certain deprivations as a result of the conflict with Israel, and some have been killed, but there is no evidence Israel has engaged in any mass killing of Palestinians or has ever demonstrated any intent to “destroy” the Palestinians.

The treatment of the Palestinians, harsh as it may sometimes be, is nothing like what the Nazis did to the Jews. It is true that genocide has occurred in places such as Turkey, Cambodia and Rwanda; nevertheless, the Holocaust was unique. 

The eminent Jewish philosopher Emil Fackenheim explained what made it distinctive:

Myths & Facts: Online Exclusives


----------



## Hollie

Not sure what all the fuss is about. 

An islamic totalitarian fear society carries with it a host of expectations for life inside an islamic hell hole. 

What, people are surprised by that?


Hamas’s Brutal Oppression and the Hypocrisy of International Opinion

At the end of last week, Palestinians gathered in the Gaza Strip to protest the failing economy and the Hamas government’s onerous taxes, enacted as other sources of funding have dried up. *Bassam Tawil* comments:

The unprecedented protests . . . apparently caught the Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip by surprise. . . . That may explain Hamas’s response to the mass protests, which by all accounts was . . . extremely violent. Within 24 hours, Hamas militiamen and security officers had opened fire on hundreds of Palestinian protesters chanting: “We are hungry!” and “Save Gaza from starvation!” . . . It is also worth noting that many of the Palestinians who were brutally beaten by Hamas were children. . . .


----------



## Hollie

This should go well for the Islamic terrorists. Ramp up the behavior that caused Israel to respond with high explosive retaliation.

Islam: lewd, rude and crude. Since 632 CE.




IDF said to strike Hamas border post after apparent balloon attack from Gaza

Reported shelling follows blast in Sderot suspected of being caused by explosives launched from the Strip
19 January 2020, 4:26 pm  

[URL="https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-said-to-strike-hamas-border-post-after-apparent-balloon-attack-from-gaza/"]IDF said to strike Hamas border post after apparent balloon attack from Gaza[/URL]




Young Palestinian men prepare flammable objects to be launched toward Israel, near Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, January 18, 2020. (Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)

The Israeli military fired a shell at a Hamas observation post along the Gaza border Sunday afternoon, apparently in response to the launching of a balloon-borne explosive device from the Strip, Palestinian media reported Sunday.


----------



## Hollie

In case you weren’t on the email list, get you party hats, the caliphate is coming. 

Woo hoo. 

"Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: We Will Soon Establish the Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem and Conquer Rome" 

On January 17, 2020, a video was uploaded to the Internet of an event at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem on the anniversary of the 1453 AD capture of Constantinople by the Ottoman Empire. The event was held by Hizb ut-Tahrir. Palestinian preacher Nidhal “Abu Ibrahim” Siam spoke before the crowd and said that the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople brings tidings that Rome will be conquered in the near future. He said that three prophecies will soon be fulfilled, and he expressed hope that his audience will be the ones to fulfil them. 



Those poor, dears. They’re lamenting the bygone era of Islamic conquest and colonialism. 

It seems odd to me that welfare recipients who can’t afford to pay their electric bill are making bellicose claims about another caliphate.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel can stop its war any time it wants.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...


What war?

You're still befuddled by terms and definitions.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war?
> 
> You're still befuddled by terms and definitions.
Click to expand...

My bad. I should have said Israel's attacks on the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What war?
> 
> You're still befuddled by terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My bad. I should have said Israel's attacks on the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Why would Israel not retaliate in response to islamic terrorist attacks?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Another Israeli lie. Shaheed does not mean terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie. Shaheed does not mean terrorist.
Click to expand...


One islamic terrorists shaheed is another islamic terrorists "martyr".


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie. Shaheed does not mean terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One islamic terrorists shaheed is another islamic terrorists "martyr".
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel's propaganda has everyone down as a terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie. Shaheed does not mean terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One islamic terrorists shaheed is another islamic terrorists "martyr".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel's propaganda has everyone down as a terrorist.
Click to expand...


Indeed, another indefensible tirade.


----------



## Hollie

The talking heads in Fatah'istan have launched themselves into another saliva-slinging rant. 

This one has somethng to do with Islam's claimed 8,443rd "most holy site". 

It's all a little comical when we read about Sunni and Shia Death Cultists routinely as'plodin each other's mosques. 
*

"The Muslims have the absolute right" to the Western Wall - PA denial of Jewish history persists
*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 21, 2020





*Fatah spokesman: “We will defend our Al-Aqsa Mosque and our holy sites, and we will not allow them to violate them … whatever the cost may be.’"*


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is threatening a continued balloon gee-had.

So much for Shia Iranian welfare money.



Hamas official threatens more explosive balloons into Israel

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Incendiary balloons Palestinians launched from the Gaza Strip recently were a signal to Israel to accelerate unofficial “understandings” meant to ease the crippling blockade on the Hamas-ruled territory, a senior official from the terror group said Tuesday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hamas is threatening a continued balloon gee-had.
> 
> So much for Shia Iranian welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official threatens more explosive balloons into Israel
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Incendiary balloons Palestinians launched from the Gaza Strip recently were a signal to Israel to accelerate unofficial “understandings” meant to ease the crippling blockade on the Hamas-ruled territory, a senior official from the terror group said Tuesday.


The ball is in Israel's court.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is threatening a continued balloon gee-had.
> 
> So much for Shia Iranian welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official threatens more explosive balloons into Israel
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Incendiary balloons Palestinians launched from the Gaza Strip recently were a signal to Israel to accelerate unofficial “understandings” meant to ease the crippling blockade on the Hamas-ruled territory, a senior official from the terror group said Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> The ball is in Israel's court.
Click to expand...


Remove the blockade stopping terror weapons from entering the Gaza Strip, or we'll use terror weapons on you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is threatening a continued balloon gee-had.
> 
> So much for Shia Iranian welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas official threatens more explosive balloons into Israel
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Incendiary balloons Palestinians launched from the Gaza Strip recently were a signal to Israel to accelerate unofficial “understandings” meant to ease the crippling blockade on the Hamas-ruled territory, a senior official from the terror group said Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> The ball is in Israel's court.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

“Fitness for Survival”. A scientific principle.

*

Israeli army kills 3 Palestinians after attack at Gaza fence*



FARES AKRAM
Associated PressJanuary 21, 2020

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military said its soldiers killed three Palestinians who crossed the Gaza border fence and threw an explosive device at troops on Tuesday.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Egypt has had enough humiliation at the hand of their Shia’fied neighbor. 

Haniyeh appears to have been told by Egypt to disappear or suffer the debilitating disease of Soleimani Syndrome. 



Hamas chief to remain outside Gaza for months, his deputy says

Ismail Haniyeh’s visit to Iran after the killing of Qassem Soleimani sparked tensions with Egypt, which controls Gaza’s only non-Israeli border.

The leader of Hamas won’t be returning to the Gaza Strip for up to a year, a senior official from the terror group said Tuesday.




In this photo, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh speaks at the funeral of Qassem Soleimani, in Tehran, Iran, January 6, 2020. (Office of the Iranian Supreme Leader)


----------



## Sixties Fan

It’s time for Israel to reverse the misguided Dayan doctrine and send a clear message that Palestinian “liberation” of the Temple Mount and the Tomb of the Patriarchs will utterly fail.

(full article online)

The ‘Prayer Intifada’


----------



## Sixties Fan

This laundry list of lies is the official Palestinian narrative about Jews, Israel and the Holocaust.

Ten years ago Palestinians and Arabs routinely denied the Holocaust in their media. The publicity was bad and they mostly abandoned this argument.  Now they are just claiming to be the major victims of the Holocaust, that Jews aren't really Jews, and that they were more supportive of Jews in Europe than Zionists were.

When one lie stops getting traction, there are always ten more that can take its place.

This article was also published in other Arabic newspapers. As always, there is not a single Arab in official media who is publicly disagreeing with the lies.

See also:
*"Arabs should use Holocaust as a political weapon" (2010)*

*Pal newspaper: Balfour Declaration worse than Holocaust (which is fake anyway)*

*Review and excerpts of Mahmoud Abbas' Holocaust denial book*

*Arabs consider the Holocaust a myth - until it becomes convenient for them to say Jews are worse than Nazis*


(full article online)

How many lies can you count in this Holocaust article in the Palestinian Authority's official newspaper? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Some ill will in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan. Haniyeh is being kicked out of the caliphate, at least temporarily. It seems that his best option is to get out of town before Egypt or the KSA decide to “do an islam” and he disappears in the night.

When you “ruffle Salafist feathers” by sucking up to the Shia heretics, it’s only a matter of time before you experience the business end of the gee-had.

Islamic terrorists eating their own. 



https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/01/22/hamas-leaders-lock-horns-over-leader-haniyehs-iran-visit/

Hamas leadership is at odds over leader Ismail Haniyeh's decision to travel to Tehran earlier this month to attend the furfural of Quds Force Commander Gen. Qassem Soleimani, killed in a US drone strike in Iraq Jan. 3.

The trip was defied Egyptian officials' advice to Haniyeh and also ruffled the feathers of several Salafist terrorist organizations in Gaza, which are now threatening retaliation against Hamas over the visit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Mohammad's method to perfection .  The Hudna will go on, and on....until the enemy is defeated ]

An article in Fatah's website says

[ Europeans victorious in the European war called the Second World War meet to announce remorse for their heinous colonial actions against the Jews, but at the same time they put their hands in the new terrorist monster they made, which is the state of the Zionist aggression, ....to atone for their sins where the persecution took place, but they were established on our land, with a loose religious cover.
They wrote history and lied in their racial greed, just as the priests of the Torah lied. Instead of respecting them in their countries in Europe and Russia, they considered them garbage that must be disposed of.]


....The Holocaust of Palestine has  been happening since the entry of General Allenby to Palestine.Again, Holocaust denial seems to be out of fashion. Now it is Holocaust revisionism where the main victims are Palestinian.

(full article online)

Palestinian reaction to Holocaust forum: "Palestinians have lived with a Holocaust every day for 70 years" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Hamas must be busy forming lines of children who graduated from their version of the Hitler Youth Camps. 

Sacrificial splodeydopes. 



Hamas official threatens more explosive balloons into Israel






*Hamas official threatens more explosive balloons into Israel*
Terror group's representative lauds act of aggression on Gaza border, says calm contingent upon Israel further abiding by Hamas conditions


----------



## Sixties Fan

Every year the terror group Fatah, headed by Mahmoud Abbas, celebrates the anniversary of its first terror attack against Israel, a failed attempt to attack Israel's water carrier on January 1, 1965.

Fatah holds these events for weeks, including in other countries. This year they held them in Turkey, Syria, Tunisia, Malaysia,  Egypt and Cyprus.

And Britain.

Hundreds gathered in London this past Saturday night to celebrate the terrorists of Fatah.

(full article online)

Hundreds gather to celebrate 55th anniversary of Fatah's first terror attack against Israel - in London ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Coyote

*To a Young Poet*
BY MAHMOUD DARWISH
TRANSLATED BY FADY JOUDAH
To a Young Poet by Mahmoud Darwish | Poetry Magazine

Don’t believe our outlines, forget them
and begin from your own words.
As if you are the first to write poetry
or the last poet.

If you read our work, let it not be an extension of our airs,
but to correct our errs
in the book of agony.

Don’t ask anyone: Who am I?
You know who your mother is.
As for your father, be your own.

Truth is white, write over it
with a crow’s ink.
Truth is black, write over it
with a mirage’s light.

If you want to duel with a falcon
soar with the falcon.

If you fall in love with a woman,
be the one, not she,
who desires his end.

Life is less alive than we think but we don’t think
of the matter too much lest we hurt emotions’ health.

If you ponder a rose for too long
you won’t budge in a storm.

You are like me, but my abyss is clear.
And you have roads whose secrets never end.
They descend and ascend, descend and ascend.

You might call the end of youth
the maturity of talent
or wisdom. No doubt, it is wisdom,
the wisdom of a cool non-lyric.

One thousand birds in the hand
don’t equal one bird that wears a tree.

A poem in a difficult time
is beautiful flowers in a cemetery.

Example is not easy to attain
so be yourself and other than yourself
behind the borders of echo.

Ardor has an expiration date with extended range.
So fill up with fervor for your heart’s sake,
follow it before you reach your path.

Don’t tell the beloved, you are I
and I am you, say
the opposite of that: we are two guests
of an excess, fugitive cloud.

Deviate, with all your might, deviate from the rule.

Don’t place two stars in one utterance
and place the marginal next to the essential
to complete the rising rapture.

Don’t believe the accuracy of our instructions.
Believe only the caravan’s trace.

A moral is as a bullet in its poet’s heart
a deadly wisdom.
Be strong as a bull when you’re angry
weak as an almond blossom
when you love, and nothing, nothing
when you serenade yourself in a closed room.

The road is long like an ancient poet’s night:
plains and hills, rivers and valleys.
Walk according to your dream’s measure: either a lily
follows you or the gallows.

Your tasks are not what worry me about you.
I worry about you from those who dance
over their children’s graves,
and from the hidden cameras
in the singers’ navels.

You won’t disappoint me,
if you distance yourself from others, and from me.
What doesn’t resemble me is more beautiful.

From now on, your only guardian is a neglected future.

Don’t think, when you melt in sorrow
like candle tears, of who will see you
or follow your intuition’s light.
Think of yourself: is this all of myself?

The poem is always incomplete, the butterflies make it whole.

No advice in love. It’s experience.
No advice in poetry. It’s talent.

And last but not least, Salaam.


----------



## Coyote

His paintings are striking - worth a look at the gallery 

Nasr A. Aziz Eleyan
Nasr Abel Aziz Eleyan is a figurative painter whose individual style is concerned with cultural traditions. His paintings depict the rural life of the peasant, and the traditional Palestinian way of life. He simplifies his subjects with simple geometrical lines, creating both harmony and balance.


----------



## Coyote

The Palestinians have produced many good artists and poets - another one is Nabil Anani.


----------



## Coyote

Woman power in the Arab world (a rare thing)!  Palestinian woman make up a larger than average proportion of entrepeneurs in Palestine.

*How the first Palestinian woman is disrupting the finance industry with her fintech start-up*

Fuelled by a supportive ecosystem and a tech-savvy population, the fintech industry in the Middle East has been growing rapidly in the last few years, disrupting the financial landscape and attracting billions in investment globally.

In the future, it’s believed that the whole world will move to the digital space in terms of finance, and the idea of physical money will disappear completely. The catalyst of such a development will be the various fintech companies and start-ups that are starting to pop up all over the world.

Taking part in this monumental shift is the founder of Rumman, Shurouq Qawariq, together with her friends Nabil Parkar and Juan Manuel Balcazar, who met in Indiana whilst completing their undergraduate degrees.

Founded in 2018, Rumman is one of the first fintech companies in the region to offer personalised, digital wealth management and automatic ways and methods to save money effortlessly.

Shurouq said: “We hope to facilitate saving and investment for those who are having trouble saving and planning for their future, and increase financial literacy and inclusion in the region to go beyond owning a bank account.”

The system is simple – every transaction made is rounded up to the nearest dollar and the change is invested in a portfolio curated to the user’s own risk profile.

“After fiddling around with ideas for our start-up, me and my team liked the idea of creating a finance savings app that allows users to invest in a different range of financial products, and be available on the mobile,” explained Shurouq.

Rumman means pomegranate in Arabic inspired by the idea of it being made up from a lot of small precious seeds that are protected by a hard shell.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the _Great Satan_™️ will have to tip toe around the Islamic terrorist threat “ you’ve been warned”. 

I’m not sure how threats of a new gee-had will change anything in terms of the current gee-had. Further, neither Hamas nor PIJ nor Fatah have shown any interest in a political solution aside from one that presumes the destruction of Israel and the competing islamic terrorist franchise. 

To gee-had or not to gee-had. It’s the fifth pillar of Islamism.

Gee-had it is. 




Hamas official warns of 'a new intifada' if Trump Middle East plan moves forward

A Hamas official warned that if the United States moves forward with its Middle East plan, it could lead to another intifada. Basem Naim, the head of Hamas’s International Relations Office, tweeted the notion on Thursday.


"If what is published in the media [about] #Trump deal correct, it means a new #Nakba 4 the Palestinians & the end of any opportunity 4 political solutions. Palestinians will hinder the implementation of the deal, whatever the price. It will trigger a new #Intifada. TO BE OR NOT TO BE," he said.


----------



## Hollie

You’ve come a long way, baby.

Well, maybe not. 

*The Status of Women in Gaza

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/hamas/hamas/the-status-of-women-in-gaza/*

Women's rights encountered significant barriers to progress with Hamas' rise to power in 2007. Although women make up 50% of the population in Gaza, their influence in most fields is limited, and their basic rights are often systematically denied. The role of women in a Hamas-dominated society was laid out in its 1988 charter, which states that Muslim women are important in that they "manufacture men and play a great role in guiding and educating the [new] generation." While women have achieved some limited accomplishments since Hamas came to power, gender discrimination has intensified overall.


----------



## Hollie

It appears that Cairo is taking a firm hand with Hamas. Cairo has effectively thrown Haniyeh out of Gaza and is apparently taking a no nonsense approach to the islamic terrorist groups looking to start a shooting war with Israel. 



Hamas to end IED balloon attacks on Israel





Arab-Israeli Conflict
00:45 | 01/24/20

HAMAS TO END IED BALLOON ATTACKS ON ISRAEL
By DIMA ABUMARIA/ THE MEDIA LINE
_





A Palestinian incendiary balloon that landed in a field in Israel. (photo credit:" ESHKOL REGIONAL COUNCIL)
At Cairo’s request, Islamist movement to rein in balloon bomb attacks from Gaza
Hamas, the Islamist movement that rules the Gaza Strip, has, according to sources, accepted an Egyptian request to prevent the firing of balloons and kites carrying improvised explosive devices into Israel.

Cairo applied the pressure in an effort to prevent an escalation between Israel and Hamas, after Gazans on January 15 renewed their IED balloon attacks. Gunmen in the Strip first employed incendiary balloons in 2018, and they have burned thousands of acres of fields in southwestern Israel. In the winter, they generally attach bombs to balloons; in warmer months, they also use Molotov cocktails, sometimes tying them to kites rather than balloons._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nope, this is Pallywood.

The photo came from an excellent photo essay I found on a Chinese language site, of many old people working and playing in rural Turkey. And a search of those photos confirmed that they were all from Turkey.

















This is not an accident. Some Palestinians scour the web for photos that they can then claim comes from them. They then make up stories to fit the photos. Thousands of people believe them.

If the Palestinian narrative was so obviously righteous - why do they have to lie?

(full article online)

Just another #Pallywood moment - a fake "100 year old Palestinian grandpa" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Nope, this is Pallywood.
> 
> The photo came from an excellent photo essay I found on a Chinese language site, of many old people working and playing in rural Turkey. And a search of those photos confirmed that they were all from Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not an accident. Some Palestinians scour the web for photos that they can then claim comes from them. They then make up stories to fit the photos. Thousands of people believe them.
> 
> If the Palestinian narrative was so obviously righteous - why do they have to lie?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Just another #Pallywood moment - a fake "100 year old Palestinian grandpa" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


weird, they don't even look Palestinian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, this is Pallywood.
> 
> The photo came from an excellent photo essay I found on a Chinese language site, of many old people working and playing in rural Turkey. And a search of those photos confirmed that they were all from Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not an accident. Some Palestinians scour the web for photos that they can then claim comes from them. They then make up stories to fit the photos. Thousands of people believe them.
> 
> If the Palestinian narrative was so obviously righteous - why do they have to lie?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Just another #Pallywood moment - a fake "100 year old Palestinian grandpa" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> weird, they don't even look Palestinian.
Click to expand...


What look is standard / required for Pal'istanians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Macron said, "no one has the right to invoke (those killed by the Nazis) to justify division or contemporary hatred."

The PLO is choosing to interpret this as meaning that Israel cannot use the Holocaust to justify its "oppression" of Palestinians.

Here's something Macron said the previous day in a meeting with President Rivlin:

 We also decided to very frankly discuss and raise the issue of anti-Zionism, which is currently very much bound up with the issue of anti-Semitism. Thank you also for speaking so clearly just now. As I’ve had the opportunity to say, anti-Zionism, when it means negating Israel’s existence as a state, is a form of anti-Semitism. Which doesn’t mean it becomes impossible to have disagreements, to criticize this or that action by the Israeli government, but negating its existence today is clearly a contemporary form of anti-Semitism. So yes, we’ve passed laws, taken initial decisions, and others in particular will follow that enable us to fight more effectively against hate speech, including anti-Semitism on the Internet. But beyond this, we must indeed resist, in a way, this erosion of conscience we too often witness, and laws are not enough to change the human soul. To do this we must remember, remind everyone what anti-Semitism led to in Europe – the Holocaust – and as well as remembering, continue to educate and train people.

(full article online)

Palestinians interpreting Macron's speech as a slap to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

A future criminal life-style is often predictable by reviewing the history of past criminal behaviors_!__!_

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, this is Pallywood.
> 
> The photo came from an excellent photo essay I found on a Chinese language site, of many old people working and playing in rural Turkey. And a search of those photos confirmed that they were all from Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not an accident. Some Palestinians scour the web for photos that they can then claim comes from them. They then make up stories to fit the photos. Thousands of people believe them.
> 
> If the Palestinian narrative was so obviously righteous - why do they have to lie?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Just another #Pallywood moment - a fake "100 year old Palestinian grandpa" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> weird, they don't even look Palestinian.
Click to expand...



Oh, the irony from the guy who posts photos every day with no corroborating evidence.  Why do you need to make things up or lie?


----------



## Hollie

Gaza developments portend military escalation with Israel


Well, gee. Isn’t that a rather bold prediction. 

When you have two islamic terrorist enclaves, both of which having a demonstrated pattern of genocidal behavior at your threshold, such a prediction is more a statement of relevant fact.


----------



## Hollie

The current truce with the Islamic terrorists is ended, until the next truce. 




IAF attacks Hamas targets in Gaza in response to incendiary balloons

Dozens of incendiary devices have been launched from the Hamas-controlled coastal enclave in the past two weeks.

The Israeli Air Force attacked multiple sites belonging to the Hamas terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip on Saturday night in response to a large number of incendiary and explosive balloons that have been launched from the Strip in the past two weeks, according to an IDF spokesperson.


----------



## Hollie

Heroes of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.






_Young women carry poster of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi in Bethlehem_


----------



## Hollie

A legacy of Arab-Moslem Terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

_





A disease._


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist _Day of Rage_™️







Isn’t every day a _Day of Rage_™️?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_

It seems that for more than four decades, _Dalal Mughrabi _has been the darling of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), and those many terrorist supporting Arab Palestinians that think they are fit to join the greater community of friendly people.   She was responsible for the machine-gunning of a busload of unarmed men and women; and another dozen children.   She murdered the niece of US Senator Abraham Ribicoff. 



Hollie said:


> Heroes of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.


*(COMMENT)*

What is peculiar is that the Arab Palestinian believe it is perfectly fine to march around and support the exploitation of sophisticated technology, communications, and resources to intimidate other populations that further the criminal objective.

Of course, they know, absolutely, that not only are these criminal acts of terrorism in and of themselves, violations on multiple International laws, but that the incitement of terrorist acts motivated by Arab Palestinian extremism and Islamic Resistance intolerance are acts that have become a growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability, and prosperity of the entire region. 

With so many examples of these parades for terrorism, it is hard for any of the nations, that the HoAP claim that supports their violence, to argue that there is some justification for the initiation of such acts.

*(EPILOG)*

It is near impossible to believe that the majority of the true refuses that might remain and wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors, should be permitted to do so given their demonstrated propensity for the support of violence.

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Back in 2009, I wrote a post that noted that Palestinian Arabs - including people the media calls "eyewitnesses" - lie. All the time.

It was after B'Tselem, admitting it could not verify the story, parroted an absurd claim that Israeli soldiers forced women in Gaza to line up to enter a house, and then shot the first one in the head.

I noted others:

(full article online)

Palestinian Arabs lie. All the time.  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

There's always the *if* argument:

There is no silence to break. What must be broken is the double standard of those who elevate the Palestinian claims over those of the Kurds, the Syrians, the Iranians, the Chechens, the Tibetans, the Ukrainians, and many other more deserving groups who truly suffer from the silence of the academia, the media, and the international community. The United Nations devotes more of its time, money, and votes to the Palestinian issue than to the claims of all of these other oppressed groups combined.
Had the early Palestinian leadership, with the surrounding Arab states, not attacked Israel the moment it declared statehood, it would have a viable state with no refugees.

 Had Hamas used the resources it received when Israel ended its occupation of the Gaza Strip in 2005 to build schools and hospitals instead of using these resources to construct rocket launchers and terror tunnels, it could have become a “Singapore on the Sea” instead of the poverty stricken enclave the Palestinian leadership turned it into.

The suffering of Palestinians, which does not compare to the suffering of many other groups, has been largely inflicted by themselves. They could have had a state, with no occupation, if they had accepted the Peel Commission Report of 1938, the United Nations Partition of 1947, the Camp David Summit deal of 2000, or the Ehud Olmert offer of 2008. They rejected all these offers, responding with violence and terrorism, because doing so would have required them to accept Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people, something they are unwilling to do even today.

Alan Dershowitz: Time to tell the truth about the Palestinian issue


----------



## Sixties Fan

This week’s World Holocaust Forum in Jerusalem on the anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp by world leaders from 50 countries was a moving commemoration of the past but must now be translated into action for the future. If the victims are remembered and the survivors honored, but the world doesn’t implement the lessons that must be learned, we are inviting a recurrence of history’s worst horrors.

One fundamental lesson of the Holocaust is that the world must be vigilant to expose and eliminate all demonization that leads to justification of murder, whether directed against Jews or any other group. One of the great failures of the international community has been its tolerant attitude towards the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) systematic demonization of Jews, and Antisemitism is now endemic among Palestinians. According to an ADL Global 100 poll a few years ago the Palestinians are the most antisemitic people in the entire world. 93% of Palestinians believed that at least 6 of the 11 negative stereotypes tested were "probably true," higher than Iraq at 92% and Yemen at 88%. For example, 91% of Palestinians believe “Jews have too much power in the business world,” 72% believe “Jews think they are better than other people,” and 88% of Palestinians say “Jews have too much control over global affairs.”

The pervasive Palestinian Antisemitism is the direct result of the PA’s teachings. Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement recently produced a propaganda video purportedly about Jewish history in Europe that it publicized on Fatah’s official Facebook page. It teaches that Jews see themselves as superior: “We [Jews] are a nation that is above the [other] nations… only we are people, and all the others are our animals,” and others as inferior: “Non-Jews... according to their worldview are snakes." The Jews, Fatah explained, “led the project to enslave humanity,” and allied with Nazis to burn Jews "to accumulate wealth." The Jews themselves established "ghettos in order to separate from other people out of arrogance and disgust for non-Jews." It was in the ghettos, the documentary further lied that the Jews schemed against the non-Jews, leading to European Antisemitism: "[Jews] were hated because of their racism and their filthy behavior." (All sources appear below.)

(full article online)

PMW Special Report - PA Antisemitism: Jews must be fought for Allah on Behalf of All Humanity | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> It seems that for more than four decades, _Dalal Mughrabi _has been the darling of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), and those many terrorist supporting Arab Palestinians that think they are fit to join the greater community of friendly people.   She was responsible for the machine-gunning of a busload of unarmed men and women; and another dozen children.   She murdered the niece of US Senator Abraham Ribicoff.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heroes of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is peculiar is that the Arab Palestinian believe it is perfectly fine to march around and support the exploitation of sophisticated technology, communications, and resources to intimidate other populations that further the criminal objective.
> 
> Of course, they know, absolutely, that not only are these criminal acts of terrorism in and of themselves, violations on multiple International laws, but that the incitement of terrorist acts motivated by Arab Palestinian extremism and Islamic Resistance intolerance are acts that have become a growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability, and prosperity of the entire region.
> 
> With so many examples of these parades for terrorism, it is hard for any of the nations, that the HoAP claim that supports their violence, to argue that there is some justification for the initiation of such acts.
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> It is near impossible to believe that the majority of the true refuses that might remain and wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors, should be permitted to do so given their demonstrated propensity for the support of violence.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Agree, Rocco. I think there is a real failure on the part of the international community that makes allowances for such behavior.

Hero worship of murderous psychopaths is a common theme in Palestinian society. It’s even taken to a new low with the glorification of mass murder/suicide as a noble goal for the pious Arab-Moslem. There was a moment in time when things might have been different, particularly after Sadat's visit to Israel in 1976, and the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan (GIVING BACK Sinai). But then when suicide bombing of schools, buses, restaurants, hotels, weddings, etc; the rejection of the Clinton peace plan by Arafat in 2000 and 2001; and the arming of south Lebanon (after Israel withdrew, giving back land) and especially Gaza after Israel unilaterally withdrew (again giving back land), the election of Hamas (whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel) and then the coup by Hamas and the rain of rockets upon Sderot...well, there’s no going back.

Generations of Palestinians, “educated” by Yasser Arafat, Hamas, the PA and UNRWA schools pressing Islamic ideology have been taught to believe the delusionary canard denying any historic Jewish continuity or legitimacy in the Holy Land. I’ll note how often Arabs/Moslems/Palestinians use "Jew" for "Israeli" or for "Zionist" as the outlet of their hatred and anger and prejudice--demonstrating they find these all the same.


----------



## Hollie

Play that funky music, Mahmoud. 

Just think, these fine, state worthy folks have a dedicated UN sponsored welfare entitlement. 



*Palestinian stabs Jew in Hamas music video*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 28, 2019


----------



## Hollie

The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat







Decades after the death of an Egyptian terrorist who invented the “Pal’istanians”, his blustering proclamation is an abject failure.


----------



## Hollie

Islamist “Pal’istan”


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, _et al,_

I don't believe there is a unified idea as to the goals and objectives the Arab Palestinians universally understand and believe in as a culture.  In fact, those that see Palestine _(from the River to the Sea)_ do not see same Palestine _(with the pre-1967 War boundaries)_.



Hollie said:


> The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat
> Decades after the death of an Egyptian terrorist who invented the “Pal’istanians”, his blustering proclamation is an abject failure.


*(COMMENT)*

It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_.  _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_

I would like to know if the Arab Palestinians, excluding the many psychopaths _(that just want to kill Jews for sport)_, actually have a consensus today as to what they want as to the fulfillment of the dream?

You can't be a failure at achieving an undefined goal and objective.  One of the reasons that the Arab Palestinian Government _(that which is beyond the Basic Law)_ do not want to talk about peace criteria is that they do not want an internal conflict to emerge between opposing objective.

And, there are simply some of the Arab Palestinians that simply do not see an advantage to folding their tents when they can still siphon off the Donor Contributions for the accumulation of personal wealth. 

*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> I don't believe there is a unified idea as to the goals and objectives the Arab Palestinians universally understand and believe in as a culture.  In fact, those that see Palestine _(from the River to the Sea)_ do not see same Palestine _(with the pre-1967 War boundaries)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat
> Decades after the death of an Egyptian terrorist who invented the “Pal’istanians”, his blustering proclamation is an abject failure.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_.  _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_
> 
> I would like to know if the Arab Palestinians, excluding the many psychopaths _(that just want to kill Jews for sport)_, actually have a consensus today as to what they want as to the fulfillment of the dream?
> 
> You can't be a failure at achieving an undefined goal and objective.  One of the reasons that the Arab Palestinian Government _(that which is beyond the Basic Law)_ do not want to talk about peace criteria is that they do not want an internal conflict to emerge between opposing objective.
> 
> And, there are simply some of the Arab Palestinians that simply do not see an advantage to folding their tents when they can still siphon off the Donor Contributions for the accumulation of personal wealth.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_. _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_


Arafat's dream was a single, secular, democratic state with equal rights for all. Although this is an ideal for western democracies it went against the original concept of Israel. Then in the 1970s he started to buy into the two state solution. Solution for what? What problems are they attempting to resolve?

The Palestinians today view Fatah and Hamas as obstacles. They are rarely ever mentioned and then it is in contempt. Fatah is worse because they will give away the store and Hamas will not. That is why most of the slime and name calling goes to Hamas.

The Palestinian's vision for the future has been solidifying over the last couple of decades. Many would say since the popularity of the internet. Now they can counter the bullshit that Israel has been shoveling since its inception.

The three components of BDS are embraced by virtually every Palestinian everywhere.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> I don't believe there is a unified idea as to the goals and objectives the Arab Palestinians universally understand and believe in as a culture.  In fact, those that see Palestine _(from the River to the Sea)_ do not see same Palestine _(with the pre-1967 War boundaries)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat
> Decades after the death of an Egyptian terrorist who invented the “Pal’istanians”, his blustering proclamation is an abject failure.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_.  _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_
> 
> I would like to know if the Arab Palestinians, excluding the many psychopaths _(that just want to kill Jews for sport)_, actually have a consensus today as to what they want as to the fulfillment of the dream?
> 
> You can't be a failure at achieving an undefined goal and objective.  One of the reasons that the Arab Palestinian Government _(that which is beyond the Basic Law)_ do not want to talk about peace criteria is that they do not want an internal conflict to emerge between opposing objective.
> 
> And, there are simply some of the Arab Palestinians that simply do not see an advantage to folding their tents when they can still siphon off the Donor Contributions for the accumulation of personal wealth.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I think a consistent theme or goal pressed by the various elements of Palestinian leadership has been the destruction of Israel. In that sense, the goal is a failure. I agree completely that apart from "the river to the sea" slogan, there doesnt appear to be any coherent plan for the Palestinians. I'm convinced that the various factions would be slamming away at each other if not for their focus on Israel. More so than not, it seems that Hamas, PIJ and Iran are waging a low level insurgency against Egypt and the KSA with Iran hoping for a Hezbollah-lite in Gaza.

It seems that Iran has a clear plan for the Palestinians where Haniyeh and Abbas do not. Haniyeh has effectively been banished from Gaza by Cairo and Sinwar has been bunkered for fear of catching Hellfire Missile disease.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> I don't believe there is a unified idea as to the goals and objectives the Arab Palestinians universally understand and believe in as a culture.  In fact, those that see Palestine _(from the River to the Sea)_ do not see same Palestine _(with the pre-1967 War boundaries)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat
> Decades after the death of an Egyptian terrorist who invented the “Pal’istanians”, his blustering proclamation is an abject failure.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_.  _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_
> 
> I would like to know if the Arab Palestinians, excluding the many psychopaths _(that just want to kill Jews for sport)_, actually have a consensus today as to what they want as to the fulfillment of the dream?
> 
> You can't be a failure at achieving an undefined goal and objective.  One of the reasons that the Arab Palestinian Government _(that which is beyond the Basic Law)_ do not want to talk about peace criteria is that they do not want an internal conflict to emerge between opposing objective.
> 
> And, there are simply some of the Arab Palestinians that simply do not see an advantage to folding their tents when they can still siphon off the Donor Contributions for the accumulation of personal wealth.
> 
> *
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_. _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arafat's dream was a single, secular, democratic state with equal rights for all. Although this is an ideal for western democracies it went against the original concept of Israel. Then in the 1970s he started to buy into the two state solution. Solution for what? What problems are they attempting to resolve?
> 
> The Palestinians today view Fatah and Hamas as obstacles. They are rarely ever mentioned and then it is in contempt. Fatah is worse because they will give away the store and Hamas will not. That is why most of the slime and name calling goes to Hamas.
> 
> The Palestinian's vision for the future has been solidifying over the last couple of decades. Many would say since the popularity of the internet. Now they can counter the bullshit that Israel has been shoveling since its inception.
> 
> The three components of BDS are embraced by virtually every Palestinian everywhere.
Click to expand...


"Arafat's dream was a single, secular, democratic state with equal rights for all. Although this is an ideal for western democracies it went against the original concept of Israel."

Simply delusional


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, eve of the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, Palestinian Media Watch released a special report on Palestinian Authority Antisemitism, detailing the different components of PA antisemitic ideology:


The PA teaches that Jews think they are superior to others, but are in fact are inferior.
The PA teaches that Jews are Satan’s partner spreading evil in the world and that evil is inherent in Jewish genes.
PA Antisemitism blames Jews for all bad in the world;
PA conclusion: It is natural that the Jews be hated and in fact, Jews brought Antisemitism on themselves throughout history, including the Holocaust.
Ultimately, the PA teaches, the killing of Jews is Allah’s will and their extermination is necessary so all of humanity can live in peace.
The following is a compilation of the antisemitic statements in the short video, that were all broadcast on either official PA TV or Fatah’s official Facebook page:

(full article online)

Here's what hate looks like: PA Antisemitism on PA TV | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What threat?  They walked away from what they were supposed to do the moment they signed it.  ]





(full article online)

Here come the Palestinian threats to withdraw from Oslo - just like in years past ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The "State of Palestine" signed on to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on April 1, 2014, with very little intention of actually implementing any of its provisions. Instead, as its initial report to the UN Human Rights Council shows, the main reason for signing the Convention was to slam Israel:

 The State of Palestine is under a colonialist, military occupation on the part of Israel and this report will throw some light on the colonialist policies of that occupation and the serious, systematic and widespread violations that infringe the provisions of the Convention. In fact, the Israeli occupation authorities deliberately and systematically target Palestinian children on a wide scale including through extrajudicial killings, arbitrary detention, displacement and forced migration with the aim of terrorizing an entire generation.Still, acceding to the Convention involves describing what the signers are doing with their own children. The UN gave the Palestinians a long list of questions asking what they are doing to adhere to the Convention, and the Palestinians just published their responses.

Many of their responses are provable lies, and others (about teaching birth control in schools, for example) are almost certainly untrue as well.

(full article online)

Blatant lies in Palestinian report to UNHRC on children's rights ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Pallywood. My camera is my fraud.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, that may be true, but I don't know how reliable that might be.  The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) mantra of → "freedom, justice, and equality" is a "politically correct" bumper sticker that is acceptable to any hostile and volatile activist and leader.

_“While an *equality of rights* under a limited government is possible and an essential condition of individual *freedom*, a claim for equality of material position can be met *only by a government with totalitarian powers*.”_ 
_......................................................................................................― Friedrich A. von Hayek _
_...........................................................................................................Law, Legislation and Liberty _
_..........................................................................................................Volume 2: The Mirage of Social Justice_​


PF Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is actually hard to say that the dream held by Yasser Arafat held is an abject failure when it is not the same as that of HAMAS or Fatah _(today)_. _(Did he actually have a dream and objective at all?)_
> 
> 
> 
> The three components of BDS are embraced by virtually every Palestinian everywhere.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Such lofty ideals _("freedom, justice and equality")_ make great campaign impact statements, but they are not unique at all _[especially in terms of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)]_.  They are slogans used across the entire political spectrum _(from the Democratic Leaders through the Totalitarians)_.  What separates a people like the Israeli _(HDIª Ranking → 22) and a people like the Arab Palestians [of the West Bank & Gaza Strip State of Palestine (HDIª Ranking → 119)] _is an actual belief in the ideals that are supported by positive deeds - not terrorist practices _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_.  The ideals expressed in slogans like these are all about building a future, and NOT about tearing another's future down.  But again, the key phrase is Human Development or the lack thereof in the case of the HoAP.......

*Footnote*.
ª _Human Development Index_
*

*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Middle East Monitor, an English-language site that is pro-Hamas and pro-Muslim Brotherhood, has an amusing article accusing Mohammad bin Salman, and the entire Saudi royal family, of being Zionist.

For decades, Arabs would accuse their political enemies of being Zionists in order to shut them down. That doesn't seem to work any more, but Hamas still tries, as this article by a Gaza writer shows.

It starts off with:

(full article online)

Frightened of deal, Hamas mouthpiece says Saudi royal family are "Zionists" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Hamas can take “audacious” only so far before the IDF might choose to bring some sweepingly audacious airstrikes across the Gaza 
mini-caliphate and make smoldering ruins out of Hamas targets.




Hamas raises stakes with weaponized drones

Alongside a diminishing number of riots along the Gaza border fence, there is a drop in the number of attempts by terror groups, to use weaponized drones to attack Israeli targets, and yet one incident marks a spike in both Hamas' capabilities and its audacity


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Well, let's set back for a minute.



Hollie said:


> Hamas can take “audacious” only so far before the IDF might choose to bring some sweepingly audacious airstrikes across the Gaza mini-caliphate and make smoldering ruins out of Hamas targets.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that is an emotional response to the situation.  But we all know that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is a tool of the civilian leadership.  And the Israeli civilian leadership has to deal with much, much larger problems than just a quasi-Armed Force _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_.   To the extent possible, the activities of the central government must attempt to color within the lines and use diplomatic solutions.  And in that regard, the General Staff of the IDF will receive their guidance.



Hollie said:


> Hamas raises stakes with weaponized drones.



*(COMMENT)*
No, don't believe that for a minute.  The cost of real weaponized Military Drones runs from anywhere between $25M _(__MQ-9 Reaper)_ and $100M+ _(MQ-1 Predator through MQ-1C Gray Eagle - or - RQ-4 Global Hawk). _ The family of drones looks like this, in general




 ​ 




Hollie said:


> Alongside a diminishing number of riots along the Gaza border fence, there is a drop in the number of attempts by terror groups, to use weaponized drones to attack Israeli targets, and yet one incident marks a spike in both Hamas' capabilities and its audacity


*(COMMENT)*

What HAMAS is experimenting with are toy drones that they are trying to adapt to terrorist use.



 ​
While they might have some application for reconnaissance purposes, to get a drone of this type costs less than a $1000/copy.  A top of the line drone on the market day _(Example - Dragon 12 RTF U11 or equivalent) _may run up to $35K/copy_._ will be more expensive by much harder to maintain, as they too have payload limits and LPD/LPI issues.  But then what kind of payload can it carry.  Additionally HAMAS has an LPD/LPI _(Low Probability of Detection and a Low Probability of Intercept)_ problem.  What HAMAS has now is are very vulnerable both to Rifle Fire and intentional emission of RF signals to interfere with the operation of the drone.  

I would suspect that HAMAS is having trouble regaining the advantages _(if you could call any of it that)_ they had in 2014.  As far as underground detection of tunneling goes, Israelis have some of the most sophisticate countermeasures detection capabilities in the world; as well as GSR _(Ground Surveillance Radars)_.  Their intelligence and security services are extremely capable.  And the IDF Intelligence Officers _(HUMINT, SIGINT, IMINT, MASINT)_ are all pound for pound better than our Military Intelligence Officers. 

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

Palestinian farmers benefit from Birmingham water technology project

University of Birmingham scientists have worked with international students to produce prototype desalination equipment that could help Palestinian farmers avoid water shortages and grow crops efficiently.

The equipment is built from off-the-shelf parts and could be deployed easily and relatively cheaply across the Middle East. The prototype system is currently being trialled in the UK and Israel, with field tests soon to begin in Palestine.

Groundwater resources around the world are becoming increasingly depleted and salinised, with many aquifers straddling political boundaries. Such resources in the Jordan Valley are shared among Israeli, Jordanian and Palestinian residents. 

The training and research programme has seen students construct desalination prototypes based on a simple but efficient batch-reverse osmosis (RO) technology that recovers up to 80% of the salinized water - making it useable for irrigation purposes.

Programme leader Professor Philip Davies from the University Of Birmingham has worked with academics and students in the UK, Israel, Jordan and Palestine - publishing the group's findings in the journal _Desalination and Water Treatment_.


----------



## Coyote

It's not quite Kpop...but interesting none-the-less.  Palipop?  One thing for sure it can't be easy being being gay in that part of the world.

The rise of Palestinian pop

Growing up in East Jerusalem, Bashar Murad turned to music for comfort in a life blighted by fractious political realities and the emotional pressures of being a gay man battling the conservative elements of his society. It also became a way of transcending the borders imposed on his life by the Israeli occupation; a medium to connect with the world outside. He started with covers of western pop before releasing his own songs, some in Arabic and some in English – invariably with catchy hooks, bold, self-produced videos, and satirical lyrics addressing freedom of expression.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> It's not quite Kpop...but interesting none-the-less.  Palipop?  One thing for sure it can't be easy being being gay in that part of the world.
> 
> The rise of Palestinian pop
> 
> Growing up in East Jerusalem, Bashar Murad turned to music for comfort in a life blighted by fractious political realities and the emotional pressures of being a gay man battling the conservative elements of his society. It also became a way of transcending the borders imposed on his life by the Israeli occupation; a medium to connect with the world outside. He started with covers of western pop before releasing his own songs, some in Arabic and some in English – invariably with catchy hooks, bold, self-produced videos, and satirical lyrics addressing freedom of expression.



It's such a cheap attempt at identity politics.
"Occupation" this or that.

Does it mention the recent LGBT demonstration in Ramallah ended with the PA police bats,
and moved to Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Palestinian farmers benefit from Birmingham water technology project
> 
> University of Birmingham scientists have worked with international students to produce prototype desalination equipment that could help Palestinian farmers avoid water shortages and grow crops efficiently.
> 
> The equipment is built from off-the-shelf parts and could be deployed easily and relatively cheaply across the Middle East. The prototype system is currently being trialled in the UK and Israel, with field tests soon to begin in Palestine.
> 
> Groundwater resources around the world are becoming increasingly depleted and salinised, with many aquifers straddling political boundaries. Such resources in the Jordan Valley are shared among Israeli, Jordanian and Palestinian residents.
> 
> The training and research programme has seen students construct desalination prototypes based on a simple but efficient batch-reverse osmosis (RO) technology that recovers up to 80% of the salinized water - making it useable for irrigation purposes.
> 
> Programme leader Professor Philip Davies from the University Of Birmingham has worked with academics and students in the UK, Israel, Jordan and Palestine - publishing the group's findings in the journal _Desalination and Water Treatment_.


Cisterns have been used for centuries to collect rain water.

Israel destroys them so that the Palestinians don't have water.


----------



## rylah

*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: We Will Soon Establish the Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem and Conquer Rome*

They forgot Spain as well...or didn't they?
What are those flags?


----------



## Hollie

*Emergency Alert!
*
From the perspective of both islamic terrorist franchises (Hamas and Fatah), any change to the status quo is an emergency. There are personal fortunes at stake and both islamic terrorist franchises / criminal enterprises have those fortunes to lose.

Not surprising that power and greed serves to unite the angry islamic terrorists. 



Hamas to join 'emergency' Palestinian talks in West Bank over Trump plan

Terror group that rules Gaza has long been at odds with Abbas's Fatah movement, but Ramallah says they are part of discussions on 'the position that must be taken' against the American proposal


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not even half the story. 

The Israelis were given the approval to build over 700 housing units for Palestinians in addition to 6,000 Israeli settlement housing units in the West Bank.   Area C — West Bank, where Israel exercises full control, is the area that the demolishment of houses takes place.



P F Tinmore said:


> Cisterns have been used for centuries to collect rain water.
> Israel destroys them so that the Palestinians don't have water.


*(COMMENT)*

But no matter what reason the Israels had for such action, any explanation will fall on deaf ears.  

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the exact details of the new U.S. peace plan—also known as the “deal of the century”—are unknown, it is already clear that the PLO and the Palestinian Authority will reject it.

Their rejection will not come as a surprise to anyone familiar with their approach, reflecting the consistently expressed demands of the PLO/PA regarding any future peace deal. Cumulatively, these demands require the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. Any suggested peace deal that does not meet these demands will be rejected by the Palestinians.

The original Israeli-Palestinian peace accord was signed by Israel and the PLO. The P.A. was created as a function of the 1993 agreement, a later agreement in 1994 and finally the 1995 interim agreement. These agreements are together known as the “Oslo Accords.”

In those agreements a number of issues were left to “permanent status negotiations,” including “Jerusalem, settlements, specified military locations, Palestinian refugees, borders, foreign relations and Israelis.”

Despite having agreed to negotiate on these subjects, over the last 25 years, on repeated occasions, the PLO/PA have made clear that while they were happy to assume the control and jurisdiction afforded to them by the accords, they had no intention whatsoever to negotiate any settlement regarding the other issues.

(full article online)

PMW JNS op-ed: Why the Palestinians will reject the "deal of the century" | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

In the part of the world where hate / self-hate rules, it leads to generations of psychopaths. 
*



Here's what hate looks like: PA Antisemitism on PA TV*
Itamar Marcus  | Jan 27, 2020




Click to view and hear how the PA disseminates Jew-hatred to adults and children through its official PA TV and Fatah Facebook. Children learn poems of hate and adults are taught Jews endanger humanity and therefore Allah must “kill them one by one - do not leave even one.”


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud is angry. 


Palestinian Authority Boss Rejects Trump Peace Plan, Vows To Die As Martyr Or Take Jerusalem - Frontpagemag

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas commented on Monday regarding US President Donald Trump's "Deal of the Century" that "Trump is a dog and the son of a dog," Fatah officials confirmed.


See? I told you he was angry.


Abbas further claimed that "I was told I'll pay a heavy price for my foolish behavior. I do not have much longer to live and I will not go down as a traitor. It's either dying like martyrs or flying the Palestinian flag on the walls of Jerusalem."




"Mahmoud the martyr"

That has all the elements of a PA music video.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Is Hamas throwing people from rooftops again? Somebody call the UN.


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. Here I was thinking Arabs-Moslems would resort to riots whatever plan was put forward. 

How predictable.




Hamas slams Trump plan as Israeli ‘conspiracy’; Palestinians riot in West Bank


----------



## Hollie

The US peace plan was met with an act of war by the Islamic terrorists.

Strange, that. 




Gaza mortar shell strikes south, prompting IDF strikes on Hamas targets

Gaza mortar shell strikes south, prompting IDF strikes on Hamas targets

Projectile hits open field, causing no injuries or damage; resulting sirens send hundreds scrambling for cover, after IDF announces plans to send reinforcements to Gaza border 
29 January 2020, 9:44 pm  3


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists from the West Bank (Fatah franchise), have a snappy new music video. 

*Fatah threatens anyone supporting the deal of the century - in song on Fatah Facebook*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 29, 2020




*
“We are trampling the deal of the century... 
[and] everyone who has signed it and everyone who adheres to it…
We have experienced men, who undergo training alongside death… Their weapons are in their hands, beware not to come near them…
You seem to have forgotten their actions 
and even their terrifying deeds… 
If talking does not help, we will erase it with cannons”


*
Snappy!


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems doing what they do. 


Hamas calls for mass demonstrations, West Bank clashes intensify

The Hamas terrorist group has called for mass demonstrations throughout the Gaza Strip on Thursday after evening prayers, in protest against the "Deal of the Century" Middle East peace plan, according to Palestinian reports. In the West Bank, clashes were sparked in multiple cities, with Palestinians reporting that 30 people were arrested within 24 hours.

Israeli security forces fired tear gas at protesters in Al-Bireh and Jericho. IDF soldiers opened fire and fired tear gas at student demonstrators along the Gaza border near Khan Younis on Thursday, according to Palestinian reports. The students left the area and no injuries were reported.


----------



## Hollie

Until the international community chooses not to shower islamic terrorist psychopaths with money, this madness will continue. 

There is simply no valid reason to provide welfare money to an islamic terrorist / criminal franchise. 

PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019 | PMW Analysis
*
PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jan 30, 2020

As US President Trump demanded “halting the financial compensation to terrorists” PA documents just publicized show the PA admits to paying 517.4 million shekels in salaries to terrorists in 2019, a rise of 15 million shekels compared to 2018.

Israeli government stipulated that the PA spent 150 million shekels on the payments to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorist “Martyrs” in 2018 

PMW has calculated that this figure has grown by at least 1.6 million shekels, in 2019

Accordingly, in 2020, the Israeli Government must deduct no less than 669 million shekels from the taxes Israel collects and transfer to the PA


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

It appears that the IDF is responding quickly to retaliate after the latest Islamic terrorist attacks. 
*



IDF strikes Hamas targets in Gaza in response to rockets launched into Israel*

*IDF strikes Hamas targets in Gaza in response to rockets launched into Israel*


An IDF spokesman said the strikes were conducted against 'a wide array of targets belonging to the Hamas terror group. … constituting a real blow to Hamas’s abilities to build up [its forces]'; no injuries were reported as a result of the strikes


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists taking a smack upside’ the head. 



Attack on ‘terror targets’ in Strip follows several launches into Israeli territory on Friday that sent thousands running for shelter, caused light damage to homes
Today, 1:11 am  

[URL="https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-strikes-hamas-in-gaza-in-response-to-rocket-mortar-fire/"]IDF strikes Hamas in Gaza in response to rocket, mortar fire[/URL]


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Hollie

It appears that Hamas will have to go begging to Iran to pay for the damages. 



IDF Planes Hit Underground Hamas Weapons Facility | Hamodia.com

IDF planes struck Hamas targets in Gaza early Friday, in response to the firing of rockets at Israeli targets on Thursday night. The IDF said that it had hit several Hamas installations, including an underground site where weapons were manufactured. The statement said that the attack was also in response to several balloon terror attacks.


----------



## Hollie

Following IsraelI retaliatory airstrikes, Hamas is spewing their usual slogans, 

With Yahya Sinwar cowering in a tunnel somewhere and Haniyeh banished from Islamic terrorist occupied Gaza, it was time to roll out the standard, pompous script. 
*

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-warns-israel-against-further-aggression-in-gaza/

Hamas says Israeli ‘aggression’ won’t deter it from further attacks
*
After IDF strikes Gaza in response to rocket launches, spokesman for terror group vows it will continue efforts to ‘achieve liberty via expulsion of those who occupy it’
Today, 8:16 am  1





The Hamas terror group on Sunday reacted to overnight Israeli strikes in Gaza, which came in response to rockets being fired at Israeli cities, warning that the “aggression” would not deter it from further attacking the Jewish state.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> Following IsraelI retaliatory airstrikes, Hamas is spewing their usual slogans,
> 
> With Yahya Sinwar cowering in a tunnel somewhere and Haniyeh banished from Islamic terrorist occupied Gaza, it was time to roll out the standard, pompous script.
> *
> 
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-warns-israel-against-further-aggression-in-gaza/
> 
> Hamas says Israeli ‘aggression’ won’t deter it from further attacks
> *
> After IDF strikes Gaza in response to rocket launches, spokesman for terror group vows it will continue efforts to ‘achieve liberty via expulsion of those who occupy it’
> Today, 8:16 am  1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas terror group on Sunday reacted to overnight Israeli strikes in Gaza, which came in response to rockets being fired at Israeli cities, warning that the “aggression” would not deter it from further attacking the Jewish state.



I like the way they twist the narrative. (Not)

Defensive retaliation  becomes aggression. 

Must be satire.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. It seems the Egyptians made Ismail the Islamo-version an offer he couldn’t refuse. 




Hamas leader Haniyeh decides to settle in Qatar - report

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh has decided to remain outside the Gaza Strip for a lengthy period of time, Hamas officials told the Saudi London-based _Ashraq Al-Awsat _newspaper.

The decision is related to internal arrangements in Hamas and complications connected to travel to and from the Gaza Strip,” the officials said.

They denied that Egypt has banned Haniyeh from returning to the Gaza Strip and said the Hamas leader has decided not to return home at this stage.


----------



## Hollie

This should go well. Shia Iran as the conquering hero in the Sunni Arab-Moslem neighborhood. 



Iran’s Quds Force to work with Hamas, Islamic Jihad against Trump deal

Hamas said that Iran’s support will strengthen its morale and resolve “to liberate Palestine.”


----------



## Hollie

A lone voice in the islamic intellectual wasteland.




"Palestinian Academic Dr. Amjad Abu El Ezz: We Are Largely Responsible for Our Situation Today and Act as If We Are Mentally Inhibited; We Do Not Know Whether We Want Peace with Israel or Armed Resistance"




Somewhere, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It is Hudna time for the eternal victims of Jewish "aggression" and audacity to be a free people ]

Following the airstrikes, Hamas spokesperson Hazem Qassem said the group would not be deterred by Israeli “aggression” but would “reinforce our people’s insistence on continuing the legitimate struggle against them and will not stop the Palestinians’ efforts to achieve liberty via expulsion of those who occupy the Palestinian people.”

(full article online)

After relative calm with Gaza, four days of rocket fire towards Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Their "love" for the land, forces them to "fight" the Jews away, and in luxury, outside of Gaza.  Yeah.......and that is how Arab leaders are born.......   ]

*Senior Hamas official Khalil al-Hayya confirmed last week that Haniyeh will remain outside the Gaza Strip for at least six months.*

(full article online)

Hamas leader Haniyeh decides to settle in Qatar - report


----------



## Hollie

In case you didnt know:


Fatah on Trump's peace plan: Palestine must be defended 'with blood'

Fatah has told Palestinians to reject Trump's peace plan, claiming that the whole of Israel is part of the Quran which must be defended with their lives.




That's odd because we're told "this is not a religious conflict" .

Be sure to check the spring sales section of your newspapers. Rakes and pitchforks should be on sale soon at your nearby home and garden center.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> This should go well. Shia Iran as the conquering hero in the Sunni Arab-Moslem neighborhood.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran’s Quds Force to work with Hamas, Islamic Jihad against Trump deal
> 
> Hamas said that Iran’s support will strengthen its morale and resolve “to liberate Palestine.”




Well, this could get ugly.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.

I suspect that Iran is going to be rather upset with their paid Hamas lackeys.




Revealed: Israel thwarted Hamas bid to smuggle weapons into Gaza by sea

The vessel used in the smuggling attempt was spotted by naval troops of a unit tasked with protecting military and civilian ports, in conjucntion with the Shin Bet security service.
IDF troops intercept a smuggling vessel headed for Hamas in Gaza.

The troops intercepted the vessel, arresting two suspected terrorists and uncovering weapons believed to be destined for Hamas naval commandos.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose we'll have to wait and see if "Khaled Al gee-had" is going to lead the charge against an embassy.


"Palestinian Islamic Jihad Leader Khaled Al-Batsh Calls upon Muslims to Besiege U.S. and ‘Zionist’ Embassies Worldwide"


----------



## Hollie

Grab your korans and weapons. The house is rockin' Fatah style. 


*Fatah greets 2020 with terror glorification fest | PMW Analysis*


*Fatah-produced video focuses on Palestinians marching with knives, rifles, and mock explosive belts at anniversary rally in Ramallah*




Even before Fatah’s violent threats in response to the US peace plan, Fatah showed its true colors, promising that it will continue on the path of violence in 2020.


----------



## Hollie

Sounds like a good plan. With Tehran controlling the welfare checks coming into Gaza, I’m sure the Mullocrats will happily demand that Hamas reduce the excess Sunni Moslem population.  
*


Report: Hamas Weighing Renewal of Weekly Gaza Border Riots
*
Revealed: Israel thwarted Hamas bid to smuggle weapons into Gaza by sea


----------



## Hollie

Israel has responded to more Islamic terrorist attacks. 



IDF strikes Hamas targets in Gaza in response to Netivot rockets

A spokesperson for the IDF said among the military sites struck in southern Gaza, was a weapons manufacturing facility belonging to the terrorist organization's military wing. "This attack undermines Hamas’s ability to reinforce," said the army in a statement. 






Fire from IDF strikes in Gaza overnight


----------



## Hollie

Brought to you by psychopaths.

*

Animated video of real murder of Israelis - on social network popular among children
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 5, 2020





An animated video that encourages murdering Israelis by showing graphic recreated scenes of real terror attacks has appeared on TikTok – a social network popular among children, where users can create and share short videos.


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had will not end well for the islamic terrorist and calls for attacks. 

I suppose that Hamas must do as they're told by the Shia mullocrats or the welfare payments from Iran will be in jeapordy.  




Hamas calls for more confrontations with Israel and settlers
*
Hamas calls for more confrontations with Israel and settlers*
Terror group urges violence after Israeli security forces shoot dead a Palestinian teen, who IDF says threw Molotov cocktail at troops during clashes in Hebron


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely people. 

They refuse to participate in a plan that could improve their lives and would shower them with additional billions of dollars in welfare payments. 



Hamas Cheers Jerusalem Terrorist Attack as 'Response' to Trump Peace Plan

(AFP) — Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas hailed a car-ramming in Jerusalem that wounded 12 Israeli troops on Thursday as a “practical response” to US President Donald Trump’s controversial Middle East peace plan.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Animated video of real murder of Israelis - on social network popular among children | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

Both islamic terrorist franchises (Hamas and Fatah), are stepping into panic mode. They both see the status quo (their dedicated UN funded welfare entitlement), as an endangered species. Very likely, Iran is demanding Hamas ramp up its terrorist attacks for continued Iranian welfare money. 
*

Abbas blames rash of attacks on Trump peace plan; Hamas praises ‘revolution’

Statement from office of PA president says Palestinian people will ‘stand strong’ against proposal, ‘regardless of the sacrifices’; Hamas lauds ‘decision to expel the occupation’*
By TOI STAFF


----------



## toastman

Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss and opportunity


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist syndicate known as _Fatah_ haz taken on an even broader role of participation in islamic terrorist attacks. 
*



Fatah instructs PA Security Forces not to pursue Palestinian terrorists*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 6, 2020




Palestinian terrorists committed 2 shooting attacks and 1 car ramming attack in the last 24 hours, just 3 days after the former head of Palestinian Authority security services, Tawfiq Tirawi, called on the security services not to “pursue any fighter.” In other words, Tirawi called for the Palestinian police not to notify Israel about terrorists or terrorist acts that they are about to commit.


----------



## Hollie

Meanwhile, the other islamic terrorist syndicate in Gaza'istan, not wanting to play second islamo-bumpkin to the competing islamic terrorist franchise is threatening some islamo-snuffs of their own..



"Hamas Parliament Speaker Ahmad Bahr: The Resistance Will Take the Life of Anybody Who Tries to Disarm It, Including Trump or Netanyahu; The Downfall of the Deal of the Century Will Come"


----------



## Hollie

I’m thinking this is going to get very ugly for the Islamic terrorists. Egypt has been able to intermittently put a throttle on Hamas. It seems now that Cairo has decided not to step in. Tehran will have the upper hand and demand that Hamas earn their welfare checks. 




Egypt stays out of renewed Israel-Gaza escalations

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — A series of military skirmishes broke out between Israel and the Gaza Strip this past week, the latest taking place Feb. 5 at dawn. Israeli aircraft launched raids on a Hamas position in the southern Gaza Strip after the Israeli army said three rockets were launched from the enclave toward Israel. The rockets fell on open spaces in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The angry Islamic terrorists are at each other’s throats again.... I mean _still _at each other’s throats. Maybe if they were given their own states they would learn to co-exist with the thinking humans. 






Hamas, Fatah Cancel Unity Meeting in Gaza

A Fatah and Hamas meeting in the Gaza Strip that was supposed to take place Wednesday and which was intended to coordinate opposition to the US ‘Deal of the Century’ peace plan has been postponed and may be canceled.

The feuding factions are exchanging accusations about the reasons for the cancellation of the meeting, which was decided upon during a phone call from Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh to Palestinian Authority and Fatah faction leader Mahmoud Abbas. At that time, Haniyeh invited Abbas to visit Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Israel has responded to more Islamic terrorist attacks. It was a rather tepid response in view of the many recent attacks. 

I’m not sure why the IsraelI government doesn’t respond with a more sweeping array of targeting as a way to send a message. 
*



Gaza rocket strikes field in south; IDF tanks respond, striking 2 Hamas posts

Projectile causes neither injury nor damage; earlier on Saturday, suspected explosive device lands in border community*
Today, 7:54 pmUpdated at 9:04 pm  3


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Lovely, lovely people.
> 
> They refuse to participate in a plan that could improve their lives and would shower them with additional billions of dollars in welfare payments.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Cheers Jerusalem Terrorist Attack as 'Response' to Trump Peace Plan
> 
> (AFP) — Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas hailed a car-ramming in Jerusalem that wounded 12 Israeli troops on Thursday as a “practical response” to US President Donald Trump’s controversial Middle East peace plan.


Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism. They are legitimate targets.

Who wrote this crock of crap?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely people.
> 
> They refuse to participate in a plan that could improve their lives and would shower them with additional billions of dollars in welfare payments.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Cheers Jerusalem Terrorist Attack as 'Response' to Trump Peace Plan
> 
> (AFP) — Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas hailed a car-ramming in Jerusalem that wounded 12 Israeli troops on Thursday as a “practical response” to US President Donald Trump’s controversial Middle East peace plan.
> 
> 
> 
> Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism. They are legitimate targets.
> 
> Who wrote this crock of crap?
Click to expand...


What invasion?

Link?

The Israelis responded to Islamic terrorist attacks. What caused your befuddlement?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely, lovely people.
> 
> They refuse to participate in a plan that could improve their lives and would shower them with additional billions of dollars in welfare payments.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Cheers Jerusalem Terrorist Attack as 'Response' to Trump Peace Plan
> 
> (AFP) — Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas hailed a car-ramming in Jerusalem that wounded 12 Israeli troops on Thursday as a “practical response” to US President Donald Trump’s controversial Middle East peace plan.
> 
> 
> 
> Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism. They are legitimate targets.
> 
> Who wrote this crock of crap?
Click to expand...


*Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism.*

Who was invading Jerusalem?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Who knows what the Palestinian population is actually being told by any peace plan ]

Look instead at the reaction by Israel’s Arabs. Not the reaction by the Palestinian Authority, which was merely the latest of their many rejections of a state of their own alongside Israel.

Look at the Arabs themselves for whom that state is intended. What is their reaction to the offer of more than 80 percent of the land for such a state? They’re furious.

This isn’t because it’s not 100 percent of the land. They’re furious at the idea that they might find themselves living in such a state. So furious that they demonstrated in the thousands against the prospect.

(full article online)

Arabs are in an uproar (over the prospect of living in Palestine)


----------



## Hollie

Some job opportunities may be opening up soon in the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank. 


Bennett: 'Hamas leaders' conduct brings us closer to deadly action against them'

DM Bennett: “The action will be very different from those that preceded it - no one will be immune.”


----------



## Hollie

Another day in the part of the world where Islamic terrorists are financed by the UN. 

We will have to wait and see if the IsraelI government follows through on its stated intention to take more aggressive action in response to attacks from Islamic retrogrades.  
*



After rocket fired into Israel, aircraft strike Hamas targets in Gaza*


IAF strikes come after PM, defense minister promise harsh military response following week-and-a-half of near-daily attacks from Gaza
Today, 1:31 am  1




Illustrative: An explosion is seen following an Israel airstrike in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip early on November 27, 2019. (SAID KHATIB / AFP)
Israeli warplanes attacked several targets in the Gaza Strip after midnight Sunday, the army said, several hours after terrorists in the enclave launched a rocket into Israel.

The Israel Defense Forces said warplanes and and other aircraft attacked several targets of the Hamas terror group in southern Gaza, including “a training camp and military infrastructure.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  Let the record be clear, that the Jewish State never attacked an Arab Palestinian State.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ • ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Once the Arab League announce their intention to use their combined armed forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel, they became the aggressor.

No consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for the Arab League to act against the Jewish State.  This is especially true given that the new Jewish State posed no threat or eminent danger to any Arab League State.

The territorial acquisition by Arab League actors or special advantage resulting from acts of aggression against the Jewish States can be recognized as lawful.



P F Tinmore said:


> Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism. They are legitimate targets.
> 
> Who wrote this crock of crap?


*(COMMENT)*

The Jewish People, taking steps with its "right of self-determination," cannot be considered as "invading foreign troops" when facilitated by, and under the invitation of, the Allied Powers under the Mandate to immigrate is not an invasion or an act of aggression.    The establishment of the Jewish State under the recommendation of the General Assembly and the close observation by the UN Palestine Commission cannot be considered an act of aggression.

Nothing in the Definition of Aggression can be construed as, in any way, altering the scope of the UN Charter, including its provisions concerning cases in which the use of force is lawful.  This included the right of self-defense in any forcible action which deprives the Jewish People equal rights and self-determination and freedom to establish an independent state.

Criminal Acts by the Arab Palestinian directed against the Jewish State with the intention of → or calculated to → to intimidate a population and to compel the Israeli Government to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers a criminal objective is an act of terrorism by the Arab Palestinian.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Let the record be clear, that the Jewish State never attacked an Arab Palestinian State.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ • ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Once the Arab League announce their intention to use their combined armed forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel, they became the aggressor.
> 
> No consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for the Arab League to act against the Jewish State.  This is especially true given that the new Jewish State posed no threat or eminent danger to any Arab League State.
> 
> The territorial acquisition by Arab League actors or special advantage resulting from acts of aggression against the Jewish States can be recognized as lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism. They are legitimate targets.
> 
> Who wrote this crock of crap?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish People, taking steps with its "right of self-determination," cannot be considered as "invading foreign troops" when facilitated by, and under the invitation of, the Allied Powers under the Mandate to immigrate is not an invasion or an act of aggression.    The establishment of the Jewish State under the recommendation of the General Assembly and the close observation by the UN Palestine Commission cannot be considered an act of aggression.
> 
> Nothing in the Definition of Aggression can be construed as, in any way, altering the scope of the UN Charter, including its provisions concerning cases in which the use of force is lawful.  This included the right of self-defense in any forcible action which deprives the Jewish People equal rights and self-determination and freedom to establish an independent state.
> 
> Criminal Acts by the Arab Palestinian directed against the Jewish State with the intention of → or calculated to → to intimidate a population and to compel the Israeli Government to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers a criminal objective is an act of terrorism by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Once the Arab League announce their intention to use their combined armed forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel, they became the aggressor.



You crack me up.

Nobody invaded Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Aww, those poor, dears. I think they’re still upset that President Trump cancelled their welfare payments.




*Fatah: "Trump... shove [the deal] up your [ass]" or "we'll declare a war only Allah can extinguish"*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 9, 2020

*“We'll redeem Palestine with blood”*

*“Trump, we’ll blind you; and if you want war we'll declare it and only Allah will be able to extinguish it. We'll drive your Israel crazy and turn it upside-down”*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Let the record be clear, that the Jewish State never attacked an Arab Palestinian State.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ • ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Once the Arab League announce their intention to use their combined armed forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel, they became the aggressor.
> 
> No consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for the Arab League to act against the Jewish State.  This is especially true given that the new Jewish State posed no threat or eminent danger to any Arab League State.
> 
> The territorial acquisition by Arab League actors or special advantage resulting from acts of aggression against the Jewish States can be recognized as lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attacks on invading foreign troops is not terrorism. They are legitimate targets.
> 
> Who wrote this crock of crap?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Jewish People, taking steps with its "right of self-determination," cannot be considered as "invading foreign troops" when facilitated by, and under the invitation of, the Allied Powers under the Mandate to immigrate is not an invasion or an act of aggression.    The establishment of the Jewish State under the recommendation of the General Assembly and the close observation by the UN Palestine Commission cannot be considered an act of aggression.
> 
> Nothing in the Definition of Aggression can be construed as, in any way, altering the scope of the UN Charter, including its provisions concerning cases in which the use of force is lawful.  This included the right of self-defense in any forcible action which deprives the Jewish People equal rights and self-determination and freedom to establish an independent state.
> 
> Criminal Acts by the Arab Palestinian directed against the Jewish State with the intention of → or calculated to → to intimidate a population and to compel the Israeli Government to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers a criminal objective is an act of terrorism by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once the Arab League announce their intention to use their combined armed forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel, they became the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You crack me up.
> 
> Nobody invaded Israel.
Click to expand...


What did they invade?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last Wednesday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed that a user of the social network TikTok had posted a video animation glorifying four lethal terror attacks that were committed against Israelis. PMW is pleased to report that TikTok responded immediately and removed the terror glorifying video.

_The following is PMW’s original bulletin exposing the terror promotion:_

(full article online)

After PMW's exposure: TikTok removes video glorifying four actual terror attacks | PMW Analysis


----------



## Sixties Fan

2017: The year the UN stopped rubber stamping all Palestinian demands ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

DCI-P lies in its reports. I've proven that many times over. Here are two of the "innocent children" they claim Israel killed for no reason:











Moreover, when it claims that 75% of children arrested by Israel are tortured, their methodology is laughable - they look for kids that will say what they want, and if they find inconsistencies in their stories, they go back and prompt the kids to change the stories.

(full article online)

Yes, the PFLP links to "children's NGO" DCI-P are real and relevant ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

It’s gratifying to see that the social media site chose to remove material the promoted and glorified acts of Islamic terrorism. 
*



After PMW's exposure: TikTok removes video glorifying four actual terror attacks*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 10, 2020




Last Wednesday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed that a user of the social network TikTok had posted a video animation glorifying four lethal terror attacks that were committed against Israelis. PMW is pleased to report that TikTok responded immediately and removed the terror glorifying video


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslem terrorists masquerading as Pal'istanians who are little more than petty criminals.  

The components they trash while crossing wires and mis-soldering connections will be paid for by their welfare fraud entitlement. 



Israel Bans Import of Communications Equipment into Gaza After Hamas Robs Telecom Company

The IDF has placed a ban on the import of communications equipment into the Gaza Strip after Hamas has been caught stealing the equipment and using it for its terror network.

Hamas military activists in the past weeks have broken into the warehouse of the Pal Tel phone company in the Zweida neighborhood in the Gaza Strip. The equipment it stole is being used to rebuild and develop Hamas’s communications system after it was hit in Israeli bombings.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Egyptian government is losing its sense of humor about the Islamic terrorists in Hamas becoming a Shia occupation army as their neighbor. 



i24NEWS

An Egyptian delegation that arrived in the Gaza Strip on Monday urged Hamas terror group to defuse the tensions with Israel and voiced Cairo's concern over Hamas ties with Iran and Lebanon's Hezbollah.

According to Al-Arabiya, Egyptians also warned Hamas against backing militia groups seeking to destabilize the region or joining Iran in any given military escalation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

What the organizers don't want you to know is that the Palestinian Authority is pulling out all the stops to increase the number of participants.

They closed down all government offices - and the Palestinian Authority employs some 200,000 workers.

They provided buses for people outside Ramallah to come to the rally.

It seems that the schools are closed, since the Teacher's Union urged all teachers to go to the rally.

In other words, this is not a popular rally - it is a Palestinian Authority and Fatah rally where they did everything they could to make it look impressive.

It would be interesting to know whether UNRWA schools are also shut down today.

The brainwashing of the people against the peace plan has been effective. A poll released yesterday showed that 66.5% of Palestinians "strongly opposed" the plan while another 22.7% "somewhat oppose it." Of course, one cannot find a single objective news report about the deal in the Palestinian media, essentially controlled by Fatah and Hamas. (Even ostensibly independent media understands that anyone who writes in support of the plan would be metaphorically or literally lynched.)

Meanwhile, a column in Felesteen (translated here) had perhaps the best description of why peace is impossible:

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority shuts down government and schools, buses people in to make an anti-Deal rally look more impressive ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Such lovely folks. 


*Palestinians: The Dangers of Singing*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
February 11, 2020 at 5:00 am
*
Palestinians: The Dangers of Singing

The only songs Hamas and its followers want are those that promote hate and violence.... "I will eat you alive, tastes best without salt, Zionist – Yes, yes, you."


The members of Sol Band did not call for "scattering the body parts" of Jews; that is probably why they are being targeted by Hamas and its allies in the Gaza Strip.


What is disturbing, however, is the silence of the international community, specifically the EU partners of Islamic University in Gaza, where Farra serves as a lecturer. Do the Europeans working with the university condone threats against musicians?... The EU countries and educational institutions are most likely ignoring such threats because they were not made by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

It’s not surprising that Cairo would choose to ramp up its warnings to Hamas. The Shia vs. Sunni blood feud has burned red hot for the last 1,400 years. Egypt has every reason to fear a Shia occupation army on their immediate border and the Shia heretics in Lebanon.  

*https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/02/11/egypt-makes-surprising-move-against-hamas-and-iran/
*
Egypt reportedly issues warning to Hamas against backing militia groups seeking to destabilize the region or joining Iran in any military escalation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The questions that reporters should, but won't, ask Mahmoud Abbas in NYC today ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

_“Jerusalem is ours, our weapon is our Islam, and our ammunition is our children. And you, O my son, are meant for martyrdom.” _

This statement, uttered by a Palestinian mother to her son, was posted on the official Facebook page of Fatah, the political party of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Unfortunately, the sentiment expressed in this Facebook post is not a rare one. The use of Palestinian children as child soldiers and terrorists has been prevalent in the Levant for decades — and not just by Fatah. Hamas, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and other organizations indoctrinate children and regularly send them to their deaths. With more light being shed on the issue recently, it is time for all people of good conscience to stand up and tell these children what their leaders will not: They deserve life.

(full article online)

FISCHBERGER: Palestinian Child Soldiers Can No Longer Be Ignored


----------



## Hollie

For some reason unknown to me, Islamists tell us in clear and easily understandable terms their intentions and their goals. A great many people choose not to believe them. 
*


Senior Fatah official: "Palestine" stretches from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and is "waqf" - an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 11, 2020




*Fatah: All of Israel is forever “Palestine” *

*– Jaffa, Acre, Haifa, Nazareth, Ramle, Beit Shean, The Negev Desert, *

*Tiberias, Safed, Jezreel Valley, and Umm Al-Fahm*


----------



## Hollie

Another Arab-Moslem "scholar" churned out by the islamic Death Cult churning out the islamo-goodness



"Palestinian-Lebanese Scholar Ali Al-Yousuf: We Will Rip out the Israelis' Spleens and Livers; We Refuse to Accept Repatriation in Lebanon"


----------



## Hollie

The good news of course is this particular Death Cultist has past its breeding potential.



"Head of Hamas Women’s Movement Rajaa Al-Halabi: Trump, You Lunatic, You Idiot… We Will Liberate Palestine and Walk All Over the Jews with Our Pure Feet"

Rajaa Al-Halabi: "Trump says that the Palestinians [always] miss their opportunities and this is their last opportunity. We say to him: You lunatic, you idiot, we have one last opportunity and that is to liberate Palestine in its entirety, Allah willing. Our last opportunity is to stand on the threshold of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and to walk all over the Jews with our feet, Allah willing. Our pure feet refuse to be anywhere but in the Al-Aqsa Mosque and _inshallah_, they will liberate Al-Aqsa. Therefore, we say to them: If you really want to buy and sell, sell yourselves, sell your dignity. We will not give up on the settlements. They say that the West Bank settlements will belong to them, but they will be liberated just like Gaza was liberated."




Lovely folks. Just more of the expected Jooooo hating rants that oozes from these people.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Song proclaiming the "slaughter" of Jews uploaded in 11,200 versions on social network TikTok    | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

Ok. Stop me if you've heard this one before: "Do as I say, not as I do."


*Fearing Israeli assassination, Hamas head skips Egypt meet
*
Egyptian delegation mediating agreement for calm along Gaza border warns terror group that Israel would deliver tough blow if attacks on population continue, and would have U.S. and international support; Hamas says not interested in escalation but deal must be reached soon.




For all the pompous blustering about glorious martyrdom, Sinwar seems rather to be taking the path of "Do as I say....."


----------



## Hollie

Nazi ideology still finds a warm embrace in the politics/ religion espoused by Arabs-Moslems in the West Bank. It's truly a shame that there is a long, lurid history of Islamism finding common cause with Nazi ideology.






Fatah removed a Nazi-themed cartoon hours after being slammed by Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan on Tuesday, the pro-Israeli group 'DigiTell nework' reported on Wednesday.

Fatah removes Nazi themed caricature after being slammed by Erdan


----------



## Sixties Fan

What is the legal basis for a Palestinian state?

According to the PLO's 1988 Declaration of Independence, the legal justification for a Palestinian Arab state comes from the UN General Assembly resolution 181, the 1947 partition resolution that the Arab world rejected. At the time, the Palestinian Arabs were so incensed at the resolution that they started a war only hours after the resolution passed.

In the language of the PLO Declaration of Independence:

 [Despite the historical injustice inflicted on the Palestinian Arab people resulting in their dispersion and depriving them of their right to self-determination, following upon U.N. General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), which partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, yet it is this Resolution that still provides those conditions of international legitimacy that ensure the right of the Palestinian Arab people to sovereignty.]

But there is a problem with that. If the PLO claims that the legal basis for the existence of an Arab state in Palestine is UNGA 181, then that means that they also accept Israel as the Jewish state, as the resolution stated - no less that thirty times! Moreover, the Declaration of Independence itself even explicitly says "two states, one Arab, one Jewish."

If they say that their legal legitimacy comes from the UNGA 181, then the PLO also accepted Israel's legitimacy as the Jewish state back in 1988!

(full article online)

In 1988, the PLO accepted a Jewish state - a fact that they try to erase nowadays ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Why Palestinians prefer to work for Israeli employers *


*"Whenever Palestinian workers have the opportunity to work for Israeli employers, they are quick to quit their jobs with their Palestinian employers”*
[Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Sept. 21, 2014]


*"Israeli labor law is a very good law regarding workers' rights... Unfortunately… the Palestinian middleman… takes 50 percent, 60 percent, and even 70 percent of her salary. If her daily salary is 180 shekels, in the end she receives 60 shekels. The [Palestinian] middleman steals two thirds of her salary." *
[Official PA TV, _Workers' Affairs_, March 16, 2016]


*“The average daily wage for [Palestinian] employees in the West Bank was 98.8 shekels…  Gaza Strip 56.7 shekels… in Israel and the Israeli settlements 233.3 shekels” *
[Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, Nov. 9, 2017]


*"There are more than 120,000 women in Palestine whose [monthly] salaries are less than 500 shekels." *
[Official PA TV News, Nov. 3, 2018] 


*“It is inconceivable that the Palestinian worker receives his full rights from the Israeli employers, but not from the Palestinian ones.”*
[Wael Nazif, CEO PA Labor Union, in official PA daily, Sept. 21, 2014]

(full article online)

Palestinians prefer to work for Israeli employers - They may be hurt most by the UN's black list | PMW Analysis


----------



## Mindful

*Okay Palestinians, What Have You Done For Us Lately?*







Yesterday I posted an article about Israeli advances in a dozen fields. I then received an email from Reza A., asking if I would have the decency to do the same for the Palestinians. I’m happy to oblige.

*Ababeel1* shortcut “A1” (Arabic: أبابيل1) the first Palestinian reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), armed drone, made in Gaza by al-Qassam Brigades Industries, the military wing of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas).

*The Quds-3 (Al Quds-3) is a rocket is based on the Russian Grad*and BM21 Katyusha. The new rocket, test-fired against Ashkelon on March 28, 2006, weighs 66 kilograms and carries 17 kilograms of explosives. It was developed in the Gaza Strip, allegedly with the aid of the Palestinian Authority funding and Iranian operatives. In April 2006, DebkaFile reported Palestinian militants were manufacturing the Quds-3 along with a multiple-rocket launcher system.

And so on ------->

Okay, Palestinians, What Have You Done For Us Lately?


----------



## Hollie

His Majesty the Mufti, speaketh. 

Mr. Mufti has decided to elevate the matter to a religious duty. Allah (and his angels), are watching to see if you’re naughty or nice. 

I think it’s likely that Mahmoud doesn’t want to take chances with the status quo and his welfare entitlement being threatened so ordered Mr. Mufti to make this a matter for his minions to deal with Allah if they dare disagree.


*PA: Rejecting Trump's plan is a religious obligation; You "betray Allah" if you cooperate with the "deal of the century"*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 14, 2020

PA: Rejecting Trump's plan is a religious obligation; You "betray Allah" if you cooperate with the "deal of the century" | PMW Analysis

The Grand Mufti of the Palestinian Authority Muhammad Hussein has ruled that Palestinians are forbidden to cooperate in any way with US President Trump’s peace plan, the so-called “deal of the century.” Anyone cooperating with the plan is “betraying Allah,” and those who support it “deserve to be cursed by Allah, his angels, and all people":


----------



## Hollie

I don’t know, Mr, Sheikh. You’re arguing some ambitious plans for a collection of Arab-Moslem misfits who rely on welfare handouts and still can’t manage to pay their electric bill. 



"Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Palestinian Researcher Ahmad Al-Khatwani: There Is Only Room in Palestine for an Islamic State; This State Could Easily Annihilate Israel, Would Conquer Rome, Moscow" 

Palestinian political researcher Sheikh Ahmad Al-Khatwani said in an address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem that was uploaded to the Internet on January 30, 2020, that Palestine cannot geographically or demographically support both a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. He said that there can only be an Islamic state in Palestine, which he said will be liberated only by Islamic hands, and not by secularists, nationalists, Pan-Arabists, Communists, or socialists.


----------



## Hollie

_“sexual violence against women and girls is rooted in centuries of male domination.”_

Seems like a small price to pay considering all the benefits of the wondrous Islamic social order. I’m just struggling to identify those, you know, ample benefits. 

*

Experts: Palestinian culture accepts marital rape and domestic violence; the laws don't protect women

https://palwatch.org/page/16919
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 27, 2019

Palestinian TV interviewed three experts on the serious problems of marital rape and domestic violence, anticipating this week’s International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women.

The UN just reported that "a third of all women and girls experience physical or sexual violence in their lifetime.” The UN noted that violence against women often goes unreported, and UN Secretary General Antonió Guterres added that “sexual violence against women and girls is rooted in centuries of male domination."


----------



## Hollie

Apparently, there are always excuses for violence and mayhem in one of those places in the world where violemce and mayhem are a part of life



The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’

*
The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’*






A terrorist fires at Israeli Border Policemen near the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City, February 6, 2020. Photo: Israel Police, screenshot.

_JNS.org_ – A car-ramming. A shooting. Some firebomb-throwers. Pretty much what you can expect from Palestinian Arab terrorists in any given 48-hour period. Except this time, the international news media have discovered a new factor to blame: US President Donald Trump.

The attacks took place over the span of Feb. 5-6. In Qalqilya, a drive-by shooter wounded a soldier. In Jerusalem’s Old City, another shooter injured a police officer. Elsewhere in Jerusalem, a terrorist rammed his car into a group of soldiers on the way to their induction ceremony at the Western Wall, wounding 12. And terrorists in Gaza fired three rockets into southern Israel


----------



## Hollie

_*
TERRORISTS IN SUITS – The Ties Between NGOs promoting BDS and Terrorist Organizations*

The Ministry of Strategic Affairs revealed over 100 links between terror groups and BDS-promoting NGOs, including the employment of 30 current and “retired” terror operatives.*_

The Ministry of Strategic Affairs and Public Diplomacy (MSA) released its *“Terrorists in Suits” report* on Sunday, revealing over 100 links shared between the internationally-designated terrorist organizations Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) with at least 13 anti-Israel BDS promoting NGOs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Apparently, there are always excuses for violence and mayhem in one of those places in the world where violemce and mayhem are a part of life
> 
> 
> 
> The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’
> 
> *
> The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A terrorist fires at Israeli Border Policemen near the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City, February 6, 2020. Photo: Israel Police, screenshot.
> 
> _JNS.org_ – A car-ramming. A shooting. Some firebomb-throwers. Pretty much what you can expect from Palestinian Arab terrorists in any given 48-hour period. Except this time, the international news media have discovered a new factor to blame: US President Donald Trump.
> 
> The attacks took place over the span of Feb. 5-6. In Qalqilya, a drive-by shooter wounded a soldier. In Jerusalem’s Old City, another shooter injured a police officer. Elsewhere in Jerusalem, a terrorist rammed his car into a group of soldiers on the way to their induction ceremony at the Western Wall, wounding 12. And terrorists in Gaza fired three rockets into southern Israel


Israel really needs to stop its war.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, there are always excuses for violence and mayhem in one of those places in the world where violemce and mayhem are a part of life
> 
> 
> 
> The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’
> 
> *
> The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A terrorist fires at Israeli Border Policemen near the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City, February 6, 2020. Photo: Israel Police, screenshot.
> 
> _JNS.org_ – A car-ramming. A shooting. Some firebomb-throwers. Pretty much what you can expect from Palestinian Arab terrorists in any given 48-hour period. Except this time, the international news media have discovered a new factor to blame: US President Donald Trump.
> 
> The attacks took place over the span of Feb. 5-6. In Qalqilya, a drive-by shooter wounded a soldier. In Jerusalem’s Old City, another shooter injured a police officer. Elsewhere in Jerusalem, a terrorist rammed his car into a group of soldiers on the way to their induction ceremony at the Western Wall, wounding 12. And terrorists in Gaza fired three rockets into southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...


Another of your usual slogans.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  It is not Israels war.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel really needs to stop its war.


*(COMMENT)*

Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  It is not Israels war.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get this shit?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  It is not Israels war.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
Click to expand...


Tick...tick...tick...

The settlements are getting larger....."Palestine" is getting smaller.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  It is not Israels war.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
Click to expand...


In your rush to respond with cartoons, I'll note that you fail to acknowledge the aggressors: both the PA and Hamas. While you will want to condemn Israel for defending the lives of its citizens, you have obviously neglected to recognize that both the PA and Hamas support entire infrastructures that aid, abetted and coordinate acts of war against Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  I didn't think you would recognize it.  It is a specific adaption from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

This is a problem with the Arab Palestinians, they not only ignore the law, but they also forgot where they put it.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get this shit?


*(ANSWER)*

Adopted on a Report from the Sixth Committee (A/8082) • A/RES/25/2625 •

It certainly did not come from the Arab Palestinian Mind-set:

◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." _ (Fatah breed of Arab Palestinian.)_

◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." _(The Covenant of the Islamic Restitance Movement.)_​
* (SIDEBAR)*

‘In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,’ says Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas

Fathi Hamad, a senior member within the Islamic Resistance leadership in Gaza is openly calling for the mass-murder of Jews through suicide bombings.​
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  It is not Israels war.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tick...tick...tick...
> 
> The settlements are getting larger....."Palestine" is getting smaller.
Click to expand...


And Timmore can't seem to absorb this concept, and what the Palestinians' intransigence is costing them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  It is not Israels war.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
Click to expand...


You’re not paying attention? Or you’re in denial?


Officials In Fatah And Its Military Wing In Gaza: We Will Not Lay Down The Arms Of Resistance Until All The Land Is Liberated

It’s worthwhile noting that Islamic ideology doesn’t liberate. It has the demonstrated pattern of imposing its own brand of theocratic totalitarianism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I didn't think you would recognize it.  It is a specific adaption from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> This is a problem with the Arab Palestinians, they not only ignore the law, but they also forgot where they put it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Adopted on a Report from the Sixth Committee (A/8082) • A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> It certainly did not come from the Arab Palestinian Mind-set:
> 
> ◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." _ (Fatah breed of Arab Palestinian.)_
> 
> ◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." _(The Covenant of the Islamic Restitance Movement.)_​
> * (SIDEBAR)*
> 
> ‘In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,’ says Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas
> 
> Fathi Hamad, a senior member within the Islamic Resistance leadership in Gaza is openly calling for the mass-murder of Jews through suicide bombings.​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.

Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.

Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.

Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.

The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I didn't think you would recognize it.  It is a specific adaption from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> This is a problem with the Arab Palestinians, they not only ignore the law, but they also forgot where they put it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Adopted on a Report from the Sixth Committee (A/8082) • A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> It certainly did not come from the Arab Palestinian Mind-set:
> 
> ◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." _ (Fatah breed of Arab Palestinian.)_
> 
> ◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." _(The Covenant of the Islamic Restitance Movement.)_​
> * (SIDEBAR)*
> 
> ‘In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,’ says Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas
> 
> Fathi Hamad, a senior member within the Islamic Resistance leadership in Gaza is openly calling for the mass-murder of Jews through suicide bombings.​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.​
Click to expand...


Thanks for the long cut and paste. Email a copy of the above to the wannabe Islamic invaders currently occupying Gaza and the West Bank. 

The above references States. Did you miss that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I didn't think you would recognize it.  It is a specific adaption from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> This is a problem with the Arab Palestinians, they not only ignore the law, but they also forgot where they put it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Adopted on a Report from the Sixth Committee (A/8082) • A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> It certainly did not come from the Arab Palestinian Mind-set:
> 
> ◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." _ (Fatah breed of Arab Palestinian.)_
> 
> ◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." _(The Covenant of the Islamic Restitance Movement.)_​
> * (SIDEBAR)*
> 
> ‘In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,’ says Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas
> 
> Fathi Hamad, a senior member within the Islamic Resistance leadership in Gaza is openly calling for the mass-murder of Jews through suicide bombings.​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the long cut and paste. Email a copy of the above to the wannabe Islamic invaders currently occupying Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> The above references States. Did you miss that?
Click to expand...

Your point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I didn't think you would recognize it.  It is a specific adaption from the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> This is a problem with the Arab Palestinians, they not only ignore the law, but they also forgot where they put it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Adopted on a Report from the Sixth Committee (A/8082) • A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> It certainly did not come from the Arab Palestinian Mind-set:
> 
> ◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." _ (Fatah breed of Arab Palestinian.)_
> 
> ◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." _(The Covenant of the Islamic Restitance Movement.)_​
> * (SIDEBAR)*
> 
> ‘In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,’ says Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas
> 
> Fathi Hamad, a senior member within the Islamic Resistance leadership in Gaza is openly calling for the mass-murder of Jews through suicide bombings.​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the long cut and paste. Email a copy of the above to the wannabe Islamic invaders currently occupying Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> The above references States. Did you miss that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your point?
Click to expand...


You have none?


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, there are always excuses for violence and mayhem in one of those places in the world where violemce and mayhem are a part of life
> 
> 
> 
> The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’
> 
> *
> The Amazing Eight-Day ‘Trigger’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A terrorist fires at Israeli Border Policemen near the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City, February 6, 2020. Photo: Israel Police, screenshot.
> 
> _JNS.org_ – A car-ramming. A shooting. Some firebomb-throwers. Pretty much what you can expect from Palestinian Arab terrorists in any given 48-hour period. Except this time, the international news media have discovered a new factor to blame: US President Donald Trump.
> 
> The attacks took place over the span of Feb. 5-6. In Qalqilya, a drive-by shooter wounded a soldier. In Jerusalem’s Old City, another shooter injured a police officer. Elsewhere in Jerusalem, a terrorist rammed his car into a group of soldiers on the way to their induction ceremony at the Western Wall, wounding 12. And terrorists in Gaza fired three rockets into southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your usual slogans.
Click to expand...


How many times would Israel attack the Palestinians if : they never launched rockets , started intifadas , stabbed Israelis, ran over Israelis ?
Let’s see if you can provide an answer Tinmore .


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  It is not Israels war.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, I cannot speak for the Israelis, by from where I sit, the Israelis will not be a conflict component IF and ONLY IF the Arab Palestinians adopt and operate under the principle that the Arab Palestinians will actually refrain in their the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Israel.  Only then can a dialog be opened on issues in dispute.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get this shit?
Click to expand...


As usual, no proper response, because you got......


Wait for it 











NOTHING !


----------



## Hollie

I’m curious to see if this latest Hudna will last more than a few weeks. 

It would appear that Hamas was facing some rather stark choices. Israeli authorities announced weeks ago that they were ready to implement harsher retaliations to Islamic terrorist attacks. The obvious implication was that Islamic terrorist kingpins would be retired via Hellfire missile strikes. That put Yahya Sinwar in hiding. Haniyeh has effectively been banned from Gaza which creates a leadership vacuum. 




Report: Hamas decides to cease fire

A security source said this evening that "Hamas sent messages to Israel, which they unilaterally decided to stop launching incendiary balloons and firing rockets at Israel."

"As peace is maintained, Israel will expand its fishing grounds back to 15 miles and return the reduced 500 trade permits. We are skeptical - but an attempt will be made to restore stability to the Gaza envelope," the official said.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I wished that I has seen this a long time ago.



P F Tinmore said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.​


*(COMMENT)*

So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.



P F Tinmore said:


> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.


*(COMMENT)*

So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People from the likes of:

*ANNEX*
* List of persons, groups and entities referred to in Article 1 *
COUNCIL DECISION 2014/72/CFSP of 10 February 2014

◈  ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’
◈  ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’
◈  ‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ – ‘PIJ’
◈  ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ – ‘PFLP’‘Popular Front for the Liberation of ◈  'Palestine – General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP – General Command’)​
As well as organization that fund or support the families of convicted terrorist, or terrorist killed while engaged in hostile activity.   You should be right on top of the effort to halt all the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.



P F Tinmore said:


> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.


*(COMMENT)*

So this means, you should be right up front giving:

*No consideration* whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, that may serve as a justification for Arab Palestinian Criminal Acts directed against Israel or organizations supporting hostile act of aggression against Israel.

*Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population.

*Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to intimidate the Israeli population or to compel a government into some act that furthers Arab Palestinian terrorist objectives _(supra)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Thanks for the link.
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.


*(COMMENT)*
So this means, you should be right up front giving:

Direct Aid to the military occupation resulting from the use of force taken under Article 51 (Self-Defense) of the provisions of the Charter.

Direct Aid to the Israelis in the effort to defend against Arab League threats or use of force against the Israelis.

Direct Aid and support for Israeli control of territory taken by actions resulting from the Arab League threats or the use of force by Arab League military operations --- and politically support the recognition of Israeli Action as legal.​*(•∑•)*

You know what_*!*_  I've misunderstood you all this time.  You should volunteer for service with the Israeli Defense Force.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I wished that I has seen this a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People from the likes of:
> 
> *ANNEX*
> * List of persons, groups and entities referred to in Article 1 *
> COUNCIL DECISION 2014/72/CFSP of 10 February 2014
> 
> ◈  ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’
> ◈  ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’
> ◈  ‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ – ‘PIJ’
> ◈  ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ – ‘PFLP’‘Popular Front for the Liberation of ◈  'Palestine – General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP – General Command’)​As well as organization that fund or support the families of convicted terrorist, or terrorist killed while engaged in hostile activity.   You should be right on top of the effort to halt all the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> *No consideration* whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, that may serve as a justification for Arab Palestinian Criminal Acts directed against Israel or organizations supporting hostile act of aggression against Israel.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to intimidate the Israeli population or to compel a government into some act that furthers Arab Palestinian terrorist objectives _(supra)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> Direct Aid to the military occupation resulting from the use of force taken under Article 51 (Self-Defense) of the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> Direct Aid to the Israelis in the effort to defend against Arab League threats or use of force against the Israelis.
> 
> Direct Aid and support for Israeli control of territory taken by actions resulting from the Arab League threats or the use of force by Arab League military operations --- and politically support the recognition of Israeli Action as legal.​*(•∑•)*
> 
> You know what_*!*_  I've misunderstood you all this time.  You should volunteer for service with the Israeli Defense Force.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Self defense is called terrorism?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I wished that I has seen this a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People from the likes of:
> 
> *ANNEX*
> * List of persons, groups and entities referred to in Article 1 *
> COUNCIL DECISION 2014/72/CFSP of 10 February 2014
> 
> ◈  ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’
> ◈  ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’
> ◈  ‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ – ‘PIJ’
> ◈  ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ – ‘PFLP’‘Popular Front for the Liberation of ◈  'Palestine – General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP – General Command’)​As well as organization that fund or support the families of convicted terrorist, or terrorist killed while engaged in hostile activity.   You should be right on top of the effort to halt all the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> *No consideration* whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, that may serve as a justification for Arab Palestinian Criminal Acts directed against Israel or organizations supporting hostile act of aggression against Israel.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to intimidate the Israeli population or to compel a government into some act that furthers Arab Palestinian terrorist objectives _(supra)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> Direct Aid to the military occupation resulting from the use of force taken under Article 51 (Self-Defense) of the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> Direct Aid to the Israelis in the effort to defend against Arab League threats or use of force against the Israelis.
> 
> Direct Aid and support for Israeli control of territory taken by actions resulting from the Arab League threats or the use of force by Arab League military operations --- and politically support the recognition of Israeli Action as legal.​*(•∑•)*
> 
> You know what_*!*_  I've misunderstood you all this time.  You should volunteer for service with the Israeli Defense Force.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is called terrorism?
Click to expand...


Terrorism against Israeli civilians is terrorism, not self-defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I wished that I has seen this a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People from the likes of:
> 
> *ANNEX*
> * List of persons, groups and entities referred to in Article 1 *
> COUNCIL DECISION 2014/72/CFSP of 10 February 2014
> 
> ◈  ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’
> ◈  ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’
> ◈  ‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ – ‘PIJ’
> ◈  ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ – ‘PFLP’‘Popular Front for the Liberation of ◈  'Palestine – General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP – General Command’)​As well as organization that fund or support the families of convicted terrorist, or terrorist killed while engaged in hostile activity.   You should be right on top of the effort to halt all the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> *No consideration* whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, that may serve as a justification for Arab Palestinian Criminal Acts directed against Israel or organizations supporting hostile act of aggression against Israel.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to intimidate the Israeli population or to compel a government into some act that furthers Arab Palestinian terrorist objectives _(supra)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> Direct Aid to the military occupation resulting from the use of force taken under Article 51 (Self-Defense) of the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> Direct Aid to the Israelis in the effort to defend against Arab League threats or use of force against the Israelis.
> 
> Direct Aid and support for Israeli control of territory taken by actions resulting from the Arab League threats or the use of force by Arab League military operations --- and politically support the recognition of Israeli Action as legal.​*(•∑•)*
> 
> You know what_*!*_  I've misunderstood you all this time.  You should volunteer for service with the Israeli Defense Force.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is called terrorism?
Click to expand...


Your Islamic terrorist heroes ramming cars into civilians is self defense?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I wished that I has seen this a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to in the elaboration of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People their right to self-determination and freedom and independence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you should be right up front protecting the Israeli People from the likes of:
> 
> *ANNEX*
> * List of persons, groups and entities referred to in Article 1 *
> COUNCIL DECISION 2014/72/CFSP of 10 February 2014
> 
> ◈  ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’
> ◈  ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’
> ◈  ‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ – ‘PIJ’
> ◈  ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ – ‘PFLP’‘Popular Front for the Liberation of ◈  'Palestine – General Command’ (a.k.a. ‘PFLP – General Command’)​As well as organization that fund or support the families of convicted terrorist, or terrorist killed while engaged in hostile activity.   You should be right on top of the effort to halt all the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> *No consideration* whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, that may serve as a justification for Arab Palestinian Criminal Acts directed against Israel or organizations supporting hostile act of aggression against Israel.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population.
> 
> *Protection Against* Arab Palestinian efforts to intimidate the Israeli population or to compel a government into some act that furthers Arab Palestinian terrorist objectives _(supra)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> The territory of a State shall not be the object of military occupation resulting from the use of force in contravention of the provisions of the Charter. The territory of a State shall not be the object of acquisition by another State resulting from the threat or use of force. No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> So this means, you should be right up front giving:
> 
> Direct Aid to the military occupation resulting from the use of force taken under Article 51 (Self-Defense) of the provisions of the Charter.
> 
> Direct Aid to the Israelis in the effort to defend against Arab League threats or use of force against the Israelis.
> 
> Direct Aid and support for Israeli control of territory taken by actions resulting from the Arab League threats or the use of force by Arab League military operations --- and politically support the recognition of Israeli Action as legal.​*(•∑•)*
> 
> You know what_*!*_  I've misunderstood you all this time.  You should volunteer for service with the Israeli Defense Force.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is called terrorism?
Click to expand...


what specific acts that the Palestinians do is considered self defence? I asked you that yesterday and you never answered...


----------



## Sixties Fan

During every crisis in recent years – the eruption over the metal detectors at the entrance to Temple Mount, the relocation of the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, or the destruction of terrorists' houses – Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has issued a call to "take to the streets." And every time it bounced back like an echo in an empty chamber. 

The Palestinians in the West Bank don't flood the streets anymore. They have lost all energy and are disdainful towards the corrupt leadership of the Palestinian Authority. 

They have lost all motivation because they look at their brothers in the Gaza Strip and see that terrorism can pay, and if Abbas resigns, it is due to the indifference of his people. 

Whenever Abbas is displeased at some international decision or other, he takes to his balcony and declares an end to security cooperation with Israel. 

But since the mechanism was founded in 1995, it has ceased its activities only once, following the riots over the Western Wall tunnels in September 1996, and only then at Israel's initiative.
Hundreds of threats later and the cooperation is business as usual.  

Abbas and his people know very well that the Israeli army is present in the West Bank mainly to protect the roads and the settlements within it, but as a byproduct, it also protects the Palestinian Authority. 

Every Palestinian security officer knows that without the IDF, Abbas would have been forced to escape underground, just as his men did when Hamas seized power in the Gaza Strip in June 2007. 

Here is a word of advice to Abbas - stop making threats because Israel does not care.

(full article online)

Love of the Land: Guess what? The days of intifada are long gone - by Moshe Elad


----------



## Sixties Fan

A story about hacking members of the Palestinian Authority has turned into another story about how the Palestinian Authority tries to control the news media.

(full article online)

Palestinian government to media: Don't publish information that makes us look bad ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas shows his disdain for a free press -and his love for J-Street ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The latest Hudna lasted only a few hours before the Islamic terrorists resumed their attacks.

I would be curious to know if Iran played their welfare check card.  Basically, Iran would have no part of any ceasefire and demanded their minions in Gaza to do as the6 were told or face a halt to welfare benefits. 




IDF strikes Hamas targets, military compound in Gaza Strip – report

The airstrikes were in response to rockets fired out of Gaza into Israel Saturday night.

Israeli fighter jets and helicopters struck multiple Hamas targets near Khan Yunis in the Gaza Strip in the pre-dawn hours of Sunday morning, the IDF said in a statement.

"The attack struck a Hamas military compound in the center of the Gaza Strip, impairing the [terrorist] organization's ability to build up," the statement said.


----------



## Hollie

“Palestinians” attacking children and the UN stays silent


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Arabs-Moslems are so, you know, _racist_™️ building those _apartheid walls_™️

It seems the Egyptians share the same security concerns that caused the Israelis to establish a secure barrier against the Islamic terrorists in Gaza.



*Egypt builds a wall on border with Gaza*

Egypt builds a wall on border with Gaza

Rasha Abou Jalal February 14, 2020 






ARTICLE SUMMARY
As part of the measures Egyptian authorities have taken to boost border security, including the construction of a border wall, an Egyptian security delegation conducted a field inspection along the Egypt-Gaza border.


----------



## Hollie

Ultimately, the israeli government must be responsible for protecting its citizens from Islamic terrorist attacks. That may mean a more concerted effort to permanently retire Hamas leaders  as a way to send a message. 




Gaza-area mayors to Benjamin Netanyahu: Fight Hamas terrorism

“The reality in which our residents live is not moral and cannot continue,” said the mayors.

The government must do more to fight terrorism coming from Gaza, mayors from towns by the Gaza border told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a meeting on Sunday.

“For the last two years, we have been in a war that can no longer be ignored,” the mayors said in a statement released after the meeting. “In the last month alone, we were hit by dozens of rockets in parallel with the balloon terrorism from Gaza that has become more serious and dangerous.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNWRA)  is tasked with administering humanitarian aid and social welfare to Palestinian refugees.

Last year, a leaked confidential report from UNRWA’s ethics office detailed abuses of power among the agency's senior management, documenting incidents of "sexual misconduct, nepotism, retaliation, discrimination and other abuses of authority, for personal gain, to suppress legitimate dissent, and to otherwise achieve their personal objectives."

In light of the scandal, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium and New Zealand suspended funding the agency.

UNRWA has long been controversial as it seeks to perpetuate the Palestinian refugee crisis, rather than resolve it.

The corruption and abuse of power exists even at the most fundamental level. 

Food aid donated to the people of Gaza from UNRWA and from private donations has been seen on the grocery store shelves,  sold for profit and promoted on the stores social media pages.


One store advertised cans of tuna, clearly labeled as a "gift" from the people of Japan

(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Humanitarian Aid donated to the Palestinians sold for profit


----------



## Hollie

When a Cult creates a cradle to grave program of indoctrination into the Cult’s agenda, the results are not surprising. 
*



Let them taste instant death" - Terrorist's poem on Facebook prior to his car ramming attack
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 17, 2020




Palestinian terrorist Sanad Al-Turman decided earlier this month to carry out a terror attack and rammed his car into a group of Israeli soldiers, wounding 12 of them.

It is possible to say that “the writing was on the wall” - literally on Fatah’s Facebook wall. Before the attack, Al-Turman uploaded a video of himself reciting a poem inciting murder of Israelis, including the phrases “tear the gangs of invaders into pieces” and “let them taste instant death.” Abbas’ Fatah, which Palestinian Media Watch has shown regularly promotes terror and glorifies terrorists, also uploaded Al-Turman’s murder incitement on both their Facebook and Twitter accounts.


----------



## Hollie

Mr. angry Abu is really, really angry. I'm thinking his activities as cleric and TV host doesn't leave him enough time for day job of being angry.



Hamas Cleric Iyad Abu Funun Challenges President Trump: You Can Come over and Try to Take Away Our Guns If You Want – We Will Kill You, Give You A Lesson in Manliness and Heroism

Hamas cleric and TV host Iyad Abu Funun said in a February 6, 2020 sermon broadcast on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza) that the guns of the Palestinian people will "break Trump's nose" and teach him that the Palestinians are alive on their land. He said that Trump cannot control the destiny of the Palestinian people the same way he can give away real estate properties, and he threatened: "You want us to hand over our weapons [after] Allah [has] bestowed upon us the capability to manufacture drones and missiles that hit Tel Aviv and Haifa? Come and take them, so we can give you a lesson in manliness and heroism! We will take your life before you can take a single gun away from us."


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Question: How long does it take a Palestinian Authority TV reporter to rewrite history and deceive Palestinians into hating Israelis?

Answer: 10 seconds.

This is a classic example of how the Palestinian Authority lies to its own people to demonize Israelis and create hatred of them among Palestinians.

At a Palestinian protest against US President Trump’s Middle East peace plan, an Israeli officer instructed Palestinian journalists to move to the other side of the road to be safe from oncoming cars.

But in the PA TV reporter’s instantaneous rewriting of history – during his live broadcast – this was distorted into a lie, turning the Israeli officer’s attempt at protecting the Palestinians into a racist statement. The PA TV reporter told viewers that the Israeli soldiers ordered them to move because “this is an Israeli road and Palestinians are not allowed on it.” In truth, the Israeli officer stressed that the soldiers were trying to “look out for” the lives of the Palestinians, because they were in danger of being “run over.” It is worth noting that the Israeli officer and the PA TV reporter spoke Hebrew together.

(full article online)

Fake news in real time: Palestinian reporter demonizes Israeli soldier seconds after soldier protected him and other journalists | PMW Analysis


----------



## Hollie

The always angry, eternally aggrieved, "it must be someone else's fault", competing islzmic terrorist franchises have again found common ground in blaming each other.



Fatah and Hamas blame each other for reconciliation failure

GAZA CITY: Fatah and Hamas have blamed each other for their lack of reconciliation following the release of US President Donald Trump’s Middle East peace plan.

The Trump peace plan, supported by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, calls for the creation of a demilitarized Palestinian state that excludes Jewish settlements built in occupied territory and is under near-total Israeli security control.

It also proposes US recognition of Israeli settlements on occupied West Bank land and of Jerusalem as Israel’s indivisible capital, along with Israeli annexation of the Jordan valley.


----------



## Hollie

A big surprise can’t just be just more threats. I think Netanyahu runs the real risk of being seen by the Islamic terrorists as weak if he allows attacks against Israelis to continue with little more in terms of retaliation than a few Gaza buildings a’sploded. 



Netanyahu warns of 'big surprise' if Hamas does not stop the violence


----------



## Mindful

Further to Hollie's post.

*“Palestinian” who injured 12 Israeli soldiers quoted Qur’an as he told Muslims to let Israelis “taste instant death”*

One might almost get the idea that the “Palestinian” jihad had something to do with Islam, if we didn’t have establishment foreign policy “experts” and our moral superiors of all kinds to assure us to the contrary. Get the truth behind the propaganda in _The Palestinian Delusion: The Catastrophic History of the Middle East Peace Process_.

'Let the taste instant death’ – Terrorist’s poem on Facebook prior to his car ramming attack,” by Nan Jacques Zilberdik, Palestinian Media Watch, February 17, 2020 (thanks to The Religion of Peace)alestinian terrorist Sanad Al-Turman decided earlier this month to carry out a terror attack and rammed his car into a group of Israeli soldiers, wounding 12 of them.

It is possible to say that “the writing was on the wall” – literally on Fatah’s Facebook wall. Before the attack, Al-Turman uploaded a video of himself reciting a poem inciting murder of Israelis, including the phrases “tear the gangs of invaders into pieces” and “let them taste instant death.” Abbas’ Fatah, which Palestinian Media Watchhas shown regularly promotes terror and glorifies terrorists, also uploaded Al-Turman’s murder incitement on both their Facebook and Twitter accounts.

“Palestinian” who injured 12 Israeli soldiers quoted Qur’an as he told Muslims to let Israelis “taste instant death”


----------



## Hollie

It seems that the Egyptians have been a voice of moderation. 

It was no coincidence that Yahya (“_martyrdom adverse_”) Sinwar has been in hiding and he’s not coming out, and Haniyeh has skipped town. For all the bluster they screech hoping to send their islamo-minions to the front of the gee-had line, they adhere to the “do as I say, not as I do”, admonition.






Egypt warned Israel not to assassinate Hamas leaders in Gaza

The London-based _Al-Araby Al-Jadeed_ reported on Tuesday that Egypt warned Israel not to assassinate senior Hamas officials in Gaza. Yahya Al-Sinwar and Marwan Issa were named specifically in the report.

According to the news website, the Egyptian intelligence delegation which visited Gaza last week had received information about such planned assassinations. It was agreed to travel to Israel and persuade officials there not to carry out the killings. The delegation then went to Gaza.

Israel apparently blames Al-Sinwar and Issa, for the ongoing instability in the south of the country. Al-Sinwar heads Hamas in the Gaza Strip, while Issa is regarded as the most effective leader of its military wing, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.


----------



## Hollie

It really is a sickness that afflicts the Arabs-Moslems posing as humans, 
*



More child abuse: Fatah supports child soldiers and child martyrdom!
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 19, 2020




Abbas’ Fatah urges its followers on Facebook to “reshare” a video of a small Jordanian boy, Amir, who is off to Jerusalem to avenge Palestinian terrorist murderer Omar Abu Laila who was killed by Israeli soldiers when he resisted arrest after having murdered 2 Israelis in 2019.

The child soldier, Amir, who is wearing a military uniform, carrying a slingshot in one hand and holding a toy rifle, explains to his mother that he wants to “shoot the Jews who shot Omar” - the Palestinian terrorist murderer - and if necessary to “die for Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque” because they “deserve” that “we die for [them].”

Stressing its support for the indoctrination of children exemplified in this video, which urges children to act as soldiers and to die as “Martyrs” for Allah, Fatah pinned the video to its official Facebook page to make sure it stays at the top of the page:


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems like to start tbeir children as young as possible on the way to self-destruction via mass murder / suicide. Starting in grade school and continuing through teen summer camp, their childhood is all about death and destruction for carnal rewards. 
*


Terrorist murderers are Palestinians' "honor" and "crown" says senior Fatah official

*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 20, 2020

*Female murderer who led killing of 37 - among them 12 children - and female terrorist who placed a bomb in a movie theater are role models for Palestinian women*




Terrorist murderers continue to be the role models of Abbas’ Fatah Movement. Senior Fatah official Tawfiq Tirawi stressed this ideology in a recent speech when he singled out three Palestinian terror leaders as “a crown on all of our heads”:


----------



## Hollie

Wow. Never saw this one comin’.



How Hamas is spending Qatari money

At a recent “meet the press” event run by the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Development and Social Affairs, a senior official in the ministry, Muhammad Hamada, reported that NIS 268 million of Qatari money has so far been disbursed in Gaza.

Unwittingly, he also revealed that Hamas took by far the lion’s share, probably to develop the military infrastructure the Israel Air Force keeps attacking after almost every salvo.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

I never quite understood the distribution of US money to the Arab Palestinians claimants, let alone the distribution of other funding donations to the claimants.



Hollie said:


> Wow. Never saw this one comin’.
> How Hamas is spending Qatari money
> 
> At a recent “meet the press” event run by the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Development and Social Affairs, a senior official in the ministry, Muhammad Hamada, reported that NIS 268 million of Qatari money has so far been disbursed in Gaza.
> 
> Unwittingly, he also revealed that Hamas took by far the lion’s share, probably to develop the military infrastructure the Israel Air Force keeps attacking after almost every salvo.


*(COMMENT)*

What I find remorse in, is the way US payments to Qatar _(Civilian and Governmental)_ redistribute into HAMAS hands.  Of course, US Dollars are flowing into Qatar through the educational institutions and government lease and logistic arrangements, but HAMAS waving hundred dollar bills around is a bit too much.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

More of the usual glorification of hate and allusion to violence that defines these angry islamiists. 

Contempt for Jews (and Christians) is one of the themes of the islamic ideology, as is the virtue of gee-had; the war against non-moslems that is waged by the sword. The Koran is clear on the issue no matter how much apologists hope to dissemble it. Islamic morality is fundamentally different from the Judeo-Christian model in that it centers on the moslem being the only moral human with others portrayed as vile, debase and allied against them.
*


Fatah: "No force can remove the weapon from my hand" - terror promoting song at Fatah rally broadcast by official PA TV
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 21, 2020




When Abbas’ Fatah celebrated its anniversary at a rally in Nablus, Fatah played a song promoting terror and violence. Official PA TV broadcast the song:


----------



## Hollie

In case you didn't know, we here in the Great Satan are about to be invaded.

Please PM me when the islamics arrive.





Palestinian cleric Najib Rafat said in an address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that was uploaded to the Internet on January 31, 2020 that the response to the Deal of the Century should not be a cold, muted, worthless, narrow, putrid, nationalist, pan-Arabist, lowly, or defeatist response. Rather, he said that the Islamic nation should respond to President Trump by “preparing the latent resources of the [Islamic] nation,” announcing the establishment of a Caliphate, getting rid of sinful leaders, and sending huge armies to invade and conquer America.


----------



## Hollie

It's time to out on your dancing shoes for the "Infitada" (or something like that), shuffle.

Just curious to know which islamic terrorist rabble rouser is going to screech about gee-had which will announce his acceptance of the IAF sponsored, Hellfire Missile delivered early retirement program. 


Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel - Middle East

*Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.

Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15







Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the Hamas political bureau and one of the organization’s senior leaders in the Gaza Strip, is calling for a national action plan to combat the so-called “Deal of the Century”.

Speaking at a conference in Gaza, al-Hayya said that the plan to fight the proposal should be based primarily on stopping the security coordination with Israel and canceling the Oslo Accords.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

If those people in the picture are very representative of the crowd, I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"



Hollie said:


> *Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
> Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.
> Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15
> .


*(COMMENT)*

What in the world do they think they are doing?  And who in the hell do they think you are?

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> If those people in the picture are very representative of the crowd, I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
> Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.
> Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the world do they think they are doing?  And who in the hell do they think you are?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


What is truly disturbing is that the external demonstration of Arab-Palestinian culture is most frequently the truly psychotic actions (calls to gee-had, praising mass murderers, putting children in the war zones they create, etc.), that completely consumes the society. The bottom line is that there is little latitude for others to accept that such behavior should be tolerated.

What is evident is that the external hatreds the Arab-Palestinians project toward the Israel and the West are reflected in the relationship between Hamas and Fatah. Their immediate enemy is Israel but there is every reason to believe that the two competing Islamic terrorist groups would be cutting each other down with machine gun fire to serve their self interests.


----------



## Hollie

Not surprisingly, facts and realities tend to so often confound the idea of competing Islamic terrorist enclaves meeting the standards of statehood.  




Why the Palestinian case at The Hague took a big hit this past week

The notion that “Palestine” is a full-fledged state that can grant jurisdiction to the International Criminal Court was dealt a serious blow over the past week, as seven countries and many scholars of international law argued that the issue was not as simple as the Palestinians and their supporters would like to make it seem.

Even some countries that have formally recognized the “State of Palestine” along the pre-1967 lines argued that Palestine cannot necessarily be considered to have validly granted the ICC jurisdiction to probe war crimes allegedly committed on its territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> If those people in the picture are very representative of the crowd, I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
> Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.
> Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the world do they think they are doing?  And who in the hell do they think you are?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"


Stupid post.

How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?

A double standard of epic proportions.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> If those people in the picture are very representative of the crowd, I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
> Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.
> Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the world do they think they are doing?  And who in the hell do they think you are?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
Click to expand...


There's no double standard. You don't understand the context.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> If those people in the picture are very representative of the crowd, I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
> Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.
> Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the world do they think they are doing?  And who in the hell do they think you are?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no double standard. You don't understand the context.
Click to expand...

Could you point out where I am incorrect?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> If those people in the picture are very representative of the crowd, I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas official calls for 'intifada' against Israel*
> Hamas official in Gaza says "March of the Return" protests will resume next month.
> Dalit Halevi, 20/02/20 02:15
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the world do they think they are doing?  And who in the hell do they think you are?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no double standard. You don't understand the context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you point out where I am incorrect?
Click to expand...


The Mandate for Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

It’s actually comical when Islamic terrorists start screeching about some claimed of breached “international law”.

Why aren’t the Islamic terrorists boycotting the *Great Satan*™️ entity of Amazon?



Palestine to take legal action against Amazon

The Palestinian Authority (PA) announced yesterday that it is to take legal action against Amazon over its discrimination against Palestinians, _Wafa_ news agency reported.

Amazon said it would make shipping free for Palestinians if they list their country as Israel.

The ministry sent legal notices to the company calling on it to immediately stop this policy or face legal accountability before international courts.





I would be curious to know what international crime has been committed that would warrant the involvement of international courts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.

You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?

It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_. 

See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.

What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
*
(ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*

The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:

_*Article 12  
•  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
*_
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.

_⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.

_⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.

_⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.

_⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
_
_*Article 20 *_

_1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._

_2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._

_*Article 21 *_

_The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
_​
That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.

*(DOUBLE STANDARD)*

None*!*




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Not surprisingly, facts and realities tend to so often confound the idea of competing Islamic terrorist enclaves meeting the standards of statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the Palestinian case at The Hague took a big hit this past week
> 
> The notion that “Palestine” is a full-fledged state that can grant jurisdiction to the International Criminal Court was dealt a serious blow over the past week, as seven countries and many scholars of international law argued that the issue was not as simple as the Palestinians and their supporters would like to make it seem.
> 
> Even some countries that have formally recognized the “State of Palestine” along the pre-1967 lines argued that Palestine cannot necessarily be considered to have validly granted the ICC jurisdiction to probe war crimes allegedly committed on its territory.





Hollie said:


> Not surprisingly, facts and realities tend to so often confound the idea of competing Islamic terrorist enclaves meeting the standards of statehood.


A lot of political opinions.

Brazil goes on to argue that the “complex Israeli-Palestinian question needs to be addressed through political dialogue between the parties and not through an international criminal process, which would be detrimental to both justice and peace.”​
Only states can negotiate peace agreements.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit, of course. 


RoccoR said:


> 2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→ Everyone is free to leave Israel. And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory. This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._


Nobody needs to enter Israel to leave Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> A lot of political opinions.



Acts of Islamic terrorism committed by Hamas / Fatah are not opinions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.


The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Only states can negotiate peace agreements.



That would seem to be a problem for the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank. 

I guess we can agree that any “state of Pal’istan” attacking Israel would have to accept that acts of war carry the consequence of a retaliatory response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
Click to expand...


Did you see that on a YouTube video?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

I did not mention either "tourism or immigration."  But the same set of domestic laws that govern "tourism or immigration" govern Border Protection.  The same set of laws also govern acceptable types of Border Crossing Documentation.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> 
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge - forget it.  If you think that there is no global effort “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law,”  you've lost your mind.

IF you remember --- Resolution S/RES/1373 (2001) called upon States to take appropriate measures, in conformity with the relevant provisions of national and international law, “before granting refugee status, for the purpose of ensuring that those that have planned, facilitated or participated in the commission of terrorist acts, ”as well as to ensure that refugee status “is not abused by the perpetrators, organizers or facilitators of terrorist acts, the extradition of alleged terrorists.”  Not only does Israel have a responsibility, but the State of Palestine (the Ramallah Government) has a responsibility to prevent the attempt of such people and to prosecute them.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Those state worthy folks calling themselves Palestinians have plumbed new depths of depravity. I know, just when you think the Cult can’t get any more depraved, they manage to plow new furrows. 
*


PA encourages suicide bombings: "Life is insignificant... God, grant us Martyrdom"*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 23, 2020





The Palestinian Authority encourages suicide bombings and promotes female suicide bombers as role models for Palestinians.

Official PA TV rebroadcast a music video that promotes death for Allah as Martyrs for Al-Aqsa and encourages suicide bombings. The song teaches Palestinians that “life is insignificant” when the Al-Aqsa Mosque calls them, and that dying for Allah is preferable to living: “God, grant us Martyrdom… A million grooms and brides… have written the marriage contract in blood.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I did not mention either "tourism or immigration."  But the same set of domestic laws that govern "tourism or immigration" govern Border Protection.  The same set of laws also govern acceptable types of Border Crossing Documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> 
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge - forget it.  If you think that there is no global effort “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law,”  you've lost your mind.
> 
> IF you remember --- Resolution S/RES/1373 (2001) called upon States to take appropriate measures, in conformity with the relevant provisions of national and international law, “before granting refugee status, for the purpose of ensuring that those that have planned, facilitated or participated in the commission of terrorist acts, ”as well as to ensure that refugee status “is not abused by the perpetrators, organizers or facilitators of terrorist acts, the extradition of alleged terrorists.”  Not only does Israel have a responsibility, but the State of Palestine (the Ramallah Government) has a responsibility to prevent the attempt of such people and to prosecute them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge


You have a lot of problems with the meaning of this so called frontier. The Green Line was drawn through Palestine. The line was to keep Israeli and Jordanian troops from attacking each other. Since the line was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary, it did not say that it was one country on one side and another country on the other. And, since it was not a border, it was still Palestine on both sides.

What authority can keep the Palestinians from traveling freely within their own country?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
Click to expand...


Nice try, but there's no such right.
 Legally a nation cannot be forced to accept a hostile population.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I did not mention either "tourism or immigration."  But the same set of domestic laws that govern "tourism or immigration" govern Border Protection.  The same set of laws also govern acceptable types of Border Crossing Documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> 
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge - forget it.  If you think that there is no global effort “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law,”  you've lost your mind.
> 
> IF you remember --- Resolution S/RES/1373 (2001) called upon States to take appropriate measures, in conformity with the relevant provisions of national and international law, “before granting refugee status, for the purpose of ensuring that those that have planned, facilitated or participated in the commission of terrorist acts, ”as well as to ensure that refugee status “is not abused by the perpetrators, organizers or facilitators of terrorist acts, the extradition of alleged terrorists.”  Not only does Israel have a responsibility, but the State of Palestine (the Ramallah Government) has a responsibility to prevent the attempt of such people and to prosecute them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a lot of problems with the meaning of this so called frontier. The Green Line was drawn through Palestine. The line was to keep Israeli and Jordanian troops from attacking each other. Since the line was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary, it did not say that it was one country on one side and another country on the other. And, since it was not a border, it was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> What authority can keep the Palestinians from traveling freely within their own country?
Click to expand...


Israel, the Jewish Nation State can do that,
as the sole nation vested with sovereignty over Palestine under international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try, but there's no such right.
> Legally a nation cannot be forced to accept a hostile population.
Click to expand...

You missed the point.

No surprise.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only ask, "who in the crowd is old enough to return to someplace in Israel where they have once lived?"
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try, but there's no such right.
> Legally a nation cannot be forced to accept a hostile population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point.
> 
> No surprise.
Click to expand...


But nothing to refute,
how surprising.

Got more of that_ wisdom_?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> How many Israelis are old enough to "return" to someplace in Palestine where they have once lived?
> 
> A double standard of epic proportions.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try, but there's no such right.
> Legally a nation cannot be forced to accept a hostile population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point.
> 
> No surprise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But nothing to refute,
> how surprising.
> 
> Got more of that_ wisdom_?
Click to expand...

Don't blame me for you missing the point.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try, but there's no such right.
> Legally a nation cannot be forced to accept a hostile population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point.
> 
> No surprise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But nothing to refute,
> how surprising.
> 
> Got more of that_ wisdom_?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame me for you missing the point.
Click to expand...

Cut the bs.
What's your point,
 to make stuff up and act as if anything you utter is divine revelation?

By now everyone knows you lie knowingly,
get real, with all the mindless parroting of ridiculous blood libels,
and intellectual dishonesty, the question rather is how are you relevant to the conversation at all.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Here you are again with the unknown "talking points" comment.
> 
> You know as well as I do, that the status on the Question of Palestinian Statehood is still not confirmed by the courts.  I cannot count the number of times I have mentioned this in commentary on the Situation in the State of Palestine.  Did YOU READ Hollie's commentary on the subject (Posting #15841)?
> 
> It has been a month (or so) that the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber invites Palestine, Israel, interested States and others to submit observations and an _amicus curiae_.
> 
> See: No.: ICC-01/18  Date:13 February 2020.
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would ask you to open your eyes.  It appears that at least six countries have filed _an amicus brief_ that argues the court’s jurisdiction did not extend to the Palestinian territories.
> 
> What you consider to be "facts" about the Status of Palestine, may not be fact at all.  But what I find interesting is that The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, which is trying to rally for the Arab Palestinians is not having much luck.  Although they condemn Germany's amicus brief, it is unclear if the Grand Duchy has submitted a brief of its own position.
> *
> (ON THE MATTER OF THE RIGHT OF RETURN)*
> 
> The Customary Law on the concept of the "Right of Return" (RoR) is based on the Customary Law on the definition of the refugee, the displaced person, or the application of Civil and Political Rights.  None of which are the same as what you give in context.  The simplest of these is the Covenant:
> 
> _*Article 12
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights  •
> *_
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> _⁜→  You would be hard pressed to find anyone in that picture that is 70 years old or older.  That is how old you have to be in order to be even remotely considered under the Cuswtomary RoR.  This is not a double standard because, since 1948, it was sovereign Israeli Territory with its own domestic laws.  Something that the Arab Palestinians have not yet established._
> ​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> _⁜→  Everyone is free to leave Israel.  And just as similar, everyone is free to leave the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.  BUT, non-Israeli citizens need Israeli permission to transit Israeli Territory.  This is the exact same principle that is used in almost every country in the Middle East and North Africa; the US, the UK, the Russian Federation, etc, etc, etc...._
> ​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (order public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> _⁜→  The travel, entry and exit of Israel is covered by domestic law --- the same as nearly every country in the Northern Hemisphere. _​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> _⁜→  Israeli domestic law on these matter are very specific and NOT arbitrary._​
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions.  If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter._  BUT keep in mind that the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also says:
> _
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> _1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law._
> 
> _*Article 21 *_
> 
> _The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order, the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
> _​
> That means that most Arab Palestinians are going to have trouble with the national security or public safety, public order issues.  And Any Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is going to have trouble meeting the entry criteria under international law; before they are even considered under Israeli domestic Law.  In fact, most of the Arab Palestinians that have been pictured in these photos will never be able to transit Israeli Sovereign Territory without a very close scrutiny.  The same can be said for those that have been arrested for any of the 19 International Counter-Terrorism Covenants.
> 
> *(DOUBLE STANDARD)*
> 
> None*!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no law, domestic or international that singles-out that Arab Palestinians for special restrictions. If they meet the criteria, they can get permission to enter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Right of Return has nothing to do with tourism or immigration. It is about where people belong under international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try, but there's no such right.
> Legally a nation cannot be forced to accept a hostile population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point.
> 
> No surprise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But nothing to refute,
> how surprising.
> 
> Got more of that_ wisdom_?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame me for you missing the point.
Click to expand...


What point?


----------



## Mindful

Meanwhile, there are other Arabs in the region who are more fortunate than the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip: the Arab citizens of Israel. These citizens are lucky that they do not live under the rule of the corrupt and incompetent leaders of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. These Arab citizens are fortunate because they live in Israel.


Here is more unwelcome good news regarding the Arab citizens of Israel: The Israeli government announced in 2018 that in the last two years, it has invested 4.5 billion shekels ($1.3 billion) in the Arab regions. The government also announced that it would invest 20 million shekels ($5.6 million) in the Arab high-tech market. Overall, the government has decided to invest 15 billion shekels ($4.3 billion) in the Arab-Israeli sector by the end of 2020....


The $50 billion dollars the Trump plan offered the Palestinians will end up being withheld because Palestinian leaders have something else on their minds: to continue enriching their own bank accounts at the expense of their people. No wonder, then, that when Arabs -- including Palestinians -- dream of a better life, they often dream of moving to Israel. No wonder, as well, that most Arab Israelis do not want to become part of a Palestinian state, and have been demanding to stay in Israel.

The Fortunate Arabs in the Middle East


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in yet another place on the globe where Islamic terrorists cause death and destruction.


Palestinian Islamic Jihad bombards South after clash near Gaza border

The IDF began attacking terror targets in the Gaza Strip in response to over 21 rockets were fired towards southern Israel communities on Sunday in several rocket barrages after Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) threatened to avenge the death of a terrorist by the IDF after he tried to plant explosives along the Gaza border fence.

The IDF said as of 11 p.m. that of 21 rockets fired from the Gaza Strip, 13 were successfully intercepted by the Iron Dome missile defense system.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

You know I'm not the one with the problem.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge
> 
> 
> 
> You have a lot of problems with the meaning of this so called frontier. The Green Line was drawn through Palestine. The line was to keep Israeli and Jordanian troops from attacking each other. Since the line was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary, it did not say that it was one country on one side and another country on the other. And, since it was not a border, it was still Palestine on both sides.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only.  These lines went into force immediately upon being signed;  remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.  This is the expression that was agreed upon and recorded in Article XII of each Armistice arrangement.  The peaceful settlement was achieved between the parties_ (relative to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ on:

◈   Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)

*Article II* 

*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​◈  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)

Article 3
*The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is* delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​
In the legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate” the Question of Palestine and its status was given as:

After the 15th May, 1948, *Palestine will continue to be a legal entity* but it will still *not* be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​


P F Tinmore said:


> What authority can keep the Palestinians from traveling freely within their own country?


*(COMMENT)*

The misunderstanding here is, as explained _supra_, your meaning of "within their own country" and the application of boundaries established by sovereign power "after 15 May 1948."  After 15 May 1948, the Jewish State of Israel, a truly sovereign power, was created and under the "right of self-determination," established sovereign boundaries within the "Legal Entity" known as "Palestine."  The remainder of that "Legal Entity" then fell under the authority of the UN international trusteeship system for the administration and supervision; as agreed upon in Chapter XII of the UN Charter.

If the Ramallah Government becomes a member of the UN and a signatory to the Charter, it agrees that:

*Article 77 *

*1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements: 
* a. territories now held under mandate*;​
And, as you know, in 1945, when the Charter was written, the "Legal Entity" known as "Palestine" was held under the "Mandate for Palestine."

You may not agree with the decisions described here, but your agreement - and the agreement of the Arab Palestinian People - was NOT required at the time these decisions were made.  And once the Arab Palestinian Leadership _(whoever that might be at the time)_ actually achieves UN Membership, they accept this as well.

I have seen your argument, wherein, you claim that the boundary for the country of Palestine was established in 1924.  Well, the Allied Powers established the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them_ (ie the Allied Powers themselves)_.  These boundaries, as were fixed in 1922 by the Allied Powers, established the Government of Palestine.  From 1922 until 15 May 1948, the High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  This was NOT a country governed by the Arab Palestinians.  In fact, the Arab Palestinian declined numerous times to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in Palestine.

SO, not only was the Arab Palestinians NOT formed into a self-governing institution forming an Arab State, they expressly refused to do this.

I have acknowledged your argument about the "All Palestine Government" (APG) and the claim that the Arab Palestinian communique of 28 September 1948, A/C.1/330 14 October 1948, from the Premier of the APG, represents the establishment of a government.  This was totally ignored, as a non-functioning government without self-governing institutions, origination from the foreign Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians, in short, are saying that they refuse to accept funding by any party that does not accept their conditions and demands.


It is as if someone applies for a loan from a bank but demands that the bank accept his or her demands, and not the other way around. Usually, those who offer the money have the right to set the conditions.


For the Palestinians, it seems, the opposite is true. They seem to believe that they are the ones entitled to set conditions to those who are offering to improve their living needs and help them march towards prosperity and a better future for their children.


Palestinian leaders know that their society is floundering in every possible way. Yet, rather than welcoming the proposed US programs, they are condemning the Americans and inciting their people against the US administration for even making such a generous offer. This is precisely the disastrous dynamic that decades ago landed the Palestinian people in their quagmire, and it is precisely the same dynamic that keeps them trapped in that morass.

(full article online)

Palestinians Condemn US for Offering to Help


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You know I'm not the one with the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are looking for some right that just allows someone to walk across the frontier without a challenge
> 
> 
> 
> You have a lot of problems with the meaning of this so called frontier. The Green Line was drawn through Palestine. The line was to keep Israeli and Jordanian troops from attacking each other. Since the line was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary, it did not say that it was one country on one side and another country on the other. And, since it was not a border, it was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only.  These lines went into force immediately upon being signed;  remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.  This is the expression that was agreed upon and recorded in Article XII of each Armistice arrangement.  The peaceful settlement was achieved between the parties_ (relative to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip)_ on:
> 
> ◈   Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
> 
> *Article II*
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​◈  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)
> 
> Article 3
> *The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is* delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​
> In the legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate” the Question of Palestine and its status was given as:
> 
> After the 15th May, 1948, *Palestine will continue to be a legal entity* but it will still *not* be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What authority can keep the Palestinians from traveling freely within their own country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The misunderstanding here is, as explained _supra_, your meaning of "within their own country" and the application of boundaries established by sovereign power "after 15 May 1948."  After 15 May 1948, the Jewish State of Israel, a truly sovereign power, was created and under the "right of self-determination," established sovereign boundaries within the "Legal Entity" known as "Palestine."  The remainder of that "Legal Entity" then fell under the authority of the UN international trusteeship system for the administration and supervision; as agreed upon in Chapter XII of the UN Charter.
> 
> If the Ramallah Government becomes a member of the UN and a signatory to the Charter, it agrees that:
> 
> *Article 77 *
> 
> *1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> * a. territories now held under mandate*;​
> And, as you know, in 1945, when the Charter was written, the "Legal Entity" known as "Palestine" was held under the "Mandate for Palestine."
> 
> You may not agree with the decisions described here, but your agreement - and the agreement of the Arab Palestinian People - was NOT required at the time these decisions were made.  And once the Arab Palestinian Leadership _(whoever that might be at the time)_ actually achieves UN Membership, they accept this as well.
> 
> I have seen your argument, wherein, you claim that the boundary for the country of Palestine was established in 1924.  Well, the Allied Powers established the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them_ (ie the Allied Powers themselves)_.  These boundaries, as were fixed in 1922 by the Allied Powers, established the Government of Palestine.  From 1922 until 15 May 1948, the High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  This was NOT a country governed by the Arab Palestinians.  In fact, the Arab Palestinian declined numerous times to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions in Palestine.
> 
> SO, not only was the Arab Palestinians NOT formed into a self-governing institution forming an Arab State, they expressly refused to do this.
> 
> I have acknowledged your argument about the "All Palestine Government" (APG) and the claim that the Arab Palestinian communique of 28 September 1948, A/C.1/330 14 October 1948, from the Premier of the APG, represents the establishment of a government.  This was totally ignored, as a non-functioning government without self-governing institutions, origination from the foreign Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only. These lines went into force immediately upon being signed; remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.


The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?


The lines no longer ran through the loosely defined geographic area called Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

In case you missed it, Fatah has declared war on the Great Satan.

Not surprisingly, the gee-had screeching heroes representing Fatah pushed a 10 year old child to the gee-had microphone to make their announcement along with an assortment of child soldiers. 

There's this "thing" with Arab-Moslem men and female children. 








Clip #7832 | February 24, 2020
*10-Year-Old Palestinian Girl at Pro-Abbas Demonstration Curses Trump, Says: If You Want War, We Declare War*


----------



## Hollie

_The thrill is gone...
_
Somebody cue up B. B. King


Hamas failing to rally West Bank against US peace plan

Hamas and other Palestinian factions have been trying to spark armed resistance in the West Bank to the recently revealed US Mideast peace plan, but they face several challenges. Recent incidents there have been limited to sporadic individual attacks against Israeli targets.



Hamas may need to expand their supply of 10 year old girls.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

Another mistake you keep making.  The lines _(all the demarcations)_ ran through the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, but in 1949 it was the territory under Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System of the UN.

The territorial name of "Palestine" was adopted for use by the Allied Powers as noted in the "Palestine Order in Council" of 1922:


			
				Part I - Preliminary • Paragraph 1 - Title • Palestine Order in Council  said:
			
		

> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​



Prior to the establishment of the Mandate Authority, the territory was some set of Political Administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire. 
[cwenter]
 
[/center]



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only. These lines went into force immediately upon being signed; remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.
> 
> 
> 
> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.

The Oslo II Agreement contains a clause_ [Article 31(7) • (Oslo II 1995) Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip]_ in which both sides agree:

"Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations."​Theoretically, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are UN Trustee Territories that are "unallocated."

It is my opinion that you do not have any solid argument in the Arab Palestinian favor until such time as the Court makes some decision.  But until then, you cannot show that Israel has taken anything away from the "Country of Palestine" because it cannot even show where the Arab Palestinians have established sovereignty.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Another mistake you keep making.  The lines _(all the demarcations)_ ran through the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, but in 1949 it was the territory under Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System of the UN.
> 
> The territorial name of "Palestine" was adopted for use by the Allied Powers as noted in the "Palestine Order in Council" of 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> Part I - Preliminary • Paragraph 1 - Title • Palestine Order in Council  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to the establishment of the Mandate Authority, the territory was some set of Political Administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire.
> [cwenter]
> View attachment 308586
> [/center]
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only. These lines went into force immediately upon being signed; remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> The Oslo II Agreement contains a clause_ [Article 31(7) • (Oslo II 1995) Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip]_ in which both sides agree:
> 
> "Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations."​Theoretically, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are UN Trustee Territories that are "unallocated."
> 
> It is my opinion that you do not have any solid argument in the Arab Palestinian favor until such time as the Court makes some decision.  But until then, you cannot show that Israel has taken anything away from the "Country of Palestine" because it cannot even show where the Arab Palestinians have established sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.


Do foreigners have the authority to change international borders?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Another mistake you keep making.  The lines _(all the demarcations)_ ran through the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, but in 1949 it was the territory under Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System of the UN.
> 
> The territorial name of "Palestine" was adopted for use by the Allied Powers as noted in the "Palestine Order in Council" of 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> Part I - Preliminary • Paragraph 1 - Title • Palestine Order in Council  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to the establishment of the Mandate Authority, the territory was some set of Political Administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire.
> [cwenter]
> View attachment 308586
> [/center]
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only. These lines went into force immediately upon being signed; remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> The Oslo II Agreement contains a clause_ [Article 31(7) • (Oslo II 1995) Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip]_ in which both sides agree:
> 
> "Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations."​Theoretically, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are UN Trustee Territories that are "unallocated."
> 
> It is my opinion that you do not have any solid argument in the Arab Palestinian favor until such time as the Court makes some decision.  But until then, you cannot show that Israel has taken anything away from the "Country of Palestine" because it cannot even show where the Arab Palestinians have established sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do foreigners have the authority to change international borders?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Foreigners changed international borders?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Another mistake you keep making.  The lines _(all the demarcations)_ ran through the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, but in 1949 it was the territory under Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System of the UN.
> 
> The territorial name of "Palestine" was adopted for use by the Allied Powers as noted in the "Palestine Order in Council" of 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> Part I - Preliminary • Paragraph 1 - Title • Palestine Order in Council  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to the establishment of the Mandate Authority, the territory was some set of Political Administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire.
> [cwenter]
> View attachment 308586
> [/center]
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only. These lines went into force immediately upon being signed; remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> The Oslo II Agreement contains a clause_ [Article 31(7) • (Oslo II 1995) Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip]_ in which both sides agree:
> 
> "Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations."​Theoretically, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are UN Trustee Territories that are "unallocated."
> 
> It is my opinion that you do not have any solid argument in the Arab Palestinian favor until such time as the Court makes some decision.  But until then, you cannot show that Israel has taken anything away from the "Country of Palestine" because it cannot even show where the Arab Palestinians have established sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do foreigners have the authority to change international borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Foreigners changed international borders?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

RoccoR has posted those links many times.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

You keep asking this question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> 
> 
> Do foreigners have the authority to change international borders?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic the authority for the certain powers were based on the Treaty:



			
				The Treaty of Lausanne (1923) said:
			
		

> A better question to ask is:  Who did not have the authority to change international borders?  (Answer: The Arab Palestinians did NOT have the authority to change international borders.  They declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.)
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.


 [*LINK*]

The key here is who gets to decide the future of the territory.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the treaty.

*(COMMENT)*

You don't identify, in your question, who are the "foreigners."  But it is a poor choice of words.  I assume you are talking about all people other than the Arab Palestinian.  And in 1923, the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty over any portion of the territory.  Whereas the Allied Powers had all rights and title and were able to determine the future of the territory.

By 1974, when the Treaty between Israel and Egypt were concluded, the Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to the conflict, and thus not a party to the treaty.

  Similarly, in 1994, when the Treaty between Israel and Jordan was concluded, the Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to the conflict, and thus not a party to the treaty.​
These two treaties represented an end to the conflict, involving these sovereign powers, that began in 1948.

Foreigners did not make any changes to international boundaries.  Rather, the parties concluding the treaties which established the new international boundaries → did so → to settle disputes of territorial integrity and boundaries of political independence between the sovereign powers.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Another mistake you keep making.  The lines _(all the demarcations)_ ran through the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, but in 1949 it was the territory under Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System of the UN.
> 
> The territorial name of "Palestine" was adopted for use by the Allied Powers as noted in the "Palestine Order in Council" of 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> Part I - Preliminary • Paragraph 1 - Title • Palestine Order in Council  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to the establishment of the Mandate Authority, the territory was some set of Political Administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire.
> [cwenter]
> View attachment 308586
> [/center]
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Lines of 1949 are historical only. These lines went into force immediately upon being signed; remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were erased by the peace agreements. Since these lines ran through Palestine, what changed when they were erased?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> The Oslo II Agreement contains a clause_ [Article 31(7) • (Oslo II 1995) Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip]_ in which both sides agree:
> 
> "Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations."​Theoretically, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are UN Trustee Territories that are "unallocated."
> 
> It is my opinion that you do not have any solid argument in the Arab Palestinian favor until such time as the Court makes some decision.  But until then, you cannot show that Israel has taken anything away from the "Country of Palestine" because it cannot even show where the Arab Palestinians have established sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do foreigners have the authority to change international borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Foreigners changed international borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RoccoR has posted those links many times.
Click to expand...


Why was I certain you couldn't support your claim?


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist franchise operated by Hamas is a bottomless pit of greed and corruption.



How Hamas Spends Qatari Money

According to Hamada, the money was distributed to 70,000 families. He then went on to itemize, in considerable detail, how the money was spent. The problem is that when one adds up all the funds supposedly allotted to all the identified populations, they add up to only NIS 59,709,154. If Hamada’s claims about the size of the distributions to Gaza’s poor are accurate, it means NIS 208 million, or nearly 80%, is unaccounted for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You keep asking this question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The establishment of the treaties and the new international boundaries change the authority responsible for its administration as accepted by the treaty signatories.
> 
> 
> 
> Do foreigners have the authority to change international borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic the authority for the certain powers were based on the Treaty:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne (1923) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A better question to ask is:  Who did not have the authority to change international borders?  (Answer: The Arab Palestinians did NOT have the authority to change international borders.  They declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.)
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [*LINK*]
> 
> The key here is who gets to decide the future of the territory.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the treaty.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You don't identify, in your question, who are the "foreigners."  But it is a poor choice of words.  I assume you are talking about all people other than the Arab Palestinian.  And in 1923, the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty over any portion of the territory.  Whereas the Allied Powers had all rights and title and were able to determine the future of the territory.
> 
> By 1974, when the Treaty between Israel and Egypt were concluded, the Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to the conflict, and thus not a party to the treaty.
> 
> Similarly, in 1994, when the Treaty between Israel and Jordan was concluded, the Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to the conflict, and thus not a party to the treaty.​
> These two treaties represented an end to the conflict, involving these sovereign powers, that began in 1948.
> 
> Foreigners did not make any changes to international boundaries.  Rather, the parties concluding the treaties which established the new international boundaries → did so → to settle disputes of territorial integrity and boundaries of political independence between the sovereign powers.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




			
				The Treaty of Lausanne (1923) said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.


You post this a lot and you always *assume* that the parties concerned are the allied powers. That is not true.

Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.

Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.

The allied powers, in this case Britain, did not acquire territory or sovereignty.

The territory, however, was transferred to Palestine. The Palestinians (the people who lived there) became citizens of Palestine. They are the people who have the right to self determination and sovereignty as subsequent UN resolutions have affirmed.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

Now you are taking the "ridiculousness" to new heights.  This is a question in which the first-order rule of interpretation tells appliers how an interpreted treaty provision shall be understood.



P F Tinmore said:


> Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.


*(COMMENT)
*
Now you can use the → Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (23 May 1969):

Article 2(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;​
*OR*​​You can use the → On The Interpretation of Treaties • Law and Philosophy Library • Volume 83 [ISBN 978-1-4020-6362-6 (e-book)]

Rule #1§4 For the purpose of this rule, parties means any and all states for which the treaty is in force at
the time of interpretation.​
*OR*​
Generally Held: →  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, page 455

*party (to a treaty)* In terms of art. 2(1)(g) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ), a party is ‘a State which has consented to be bound by
the treaty and for which the treaty is in force’. Cf . contracting State ; signatory State .

A *party to a contract* is one who holds the obligations and receives the benefits of a legally binding agreement. When two parties enter into an agreement, there are two distinct roles each play: the promisor and the promisee. The *promisor* is the party that makes the promise, while the *promisee* is on the receiving end of the promise.​
Don't for a moment think that Section II (Nationality) • Article 30 has anything to do with who is a party to the Treaty or on the decisions as to transfer of territory.  While it is TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the Government of Palestine (a legal entity), it is NOT TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became nationals of the Government of Palestine.  States within the territory west of the Jordan River had been undecided.  And the territory east of the Jordan River was only granted its sovereignty by the treaty with the Mandatory Power (Great Britain) in 1946.  (See Treaty Series page 145)



P F Tinmore said:


> The territory, however, was transferred to Palestine. The Palestinians (the people who lived there) became citizens of Palestine. They are the people who have the right to self-determination and sovereignty as subsequent UN resolutions have affirmed.


*(COMMENT)*

The territory was NOT transferred anywhere.  And Again, you are mixing apples and oranges.  It cannot be made any clearer.  There was no country created in the territory west of the Jordan River until 15 May 1948 by the National Council for the Jewish State and the Provisional Government; that being the Jewish State of Israel.  At that time, the people of all persuasions, inside the limits of the sovereign territory over which the Jewish.

Just as a matter of clarity, the Arab Palestinian people did not declare independence.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization that declared independence.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Arab Pal'istanians have some odd notions of child rearing. The esteemed "ambassador" Ahmed has some clever notions of how to put the ummah's kids to best use. 
_*



Palestinian Ambassador to Iraq Ahmad ‘Aql: We Will Resist Deal of Century until Last Drop of Palestinian Child’s Blood*_

_

He added that a Palestinian child takes a kitchen knife, kills three armed Israeli soldiers, steals their car, and continues to kill and wound other soldiers somewhere else. He said: "A people who has such children will never be defeated". He said that the Palestinians will resist the Deal of the Century and the American and Zionist enemy until the last drop of a Palestinian child's blood._
_
_
Lovely_. 

_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now you are taking the "ridiculousness" to new heights.  This is a question in which the first-order rule of interpretation tells appliers how an interpreted treaty provision shall be understood.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> Now you can use the → Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (23 May 1969):
> 
> Article 2(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;​
> *OR*​​You can use the → On The Interpretation of Treaties • Law and Philosophy Library • Volume 83 [ISBN 978-1-4020-6362-6 (e-book)]
> 
> Rule #1§4 For the purpose of this rule, parties means any and all states for which the treaty is in force at
> the time of interpretation.​
> *OR*​
> Generally Held: →  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, page 455
> 
> *party (to a treaty)* In terms of art. 2(1)(g) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ), a party is ‘a State which has consented to be bound by
> the treaty and for which the treaty is in force’. Cf . contracting State ; signatory State .
> 
> A *party to a contract* is one who holds the obligations and receives the benefits of a legally binding agreement. When two parties enter into an agreement, there are two distinct roles each play: the promisor and the promisee. The *promisor* is the party that makes the promise, while the *promisee* is on the receiving end of the promise.​
> Don't for a moment think that Section II (Nationality) • Article 30 has anything to do with who is a party to the Treaty or on the decisions as to transfer of territory.  While it is TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the Government of Palestine (a legal entity), it is NOT TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became nationals of the Government of Palestine.  States within the territory west of the Jordan River had been undecided.  And the territory east of the Jordan River was only granted its sovereignty by the treaty with the Mandatory Power (Great Britain) in 1946.  (See Treaty Series page 145)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory, however, was transferred to Palestine. The Palestinians (the people who lived there) became citizens of Palestine. They are the people who have the right to self-determination and sovereignty as subsequent UN resolutions have affirmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NOT transferred anywhere.  And Again, you are mixing apples and oranges.  It cannot be made any clearer.  There was no country created in the territory west of the Jordan River until 15 May 1948 by the National Council for the Jewish State and the Provisional Government; that being the Jewish State of Israel.  At that time, the people of all persuasions, inside the limits of the sovereign territory over which the Jewish.
> 
> Just as a matter of clarity, the Arab Palestinian people did not declare independence.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization that declared independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are grasping at straws.

Nice obfuscation, though.

Refute the issues in my post with links.


----------



## froggy

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

They were ruled over by Herod the Great isn't that enough reason to fight to the end


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now you are taking the "ridiculousness" to new heights.  This is a question in which the first-order rule of interpretation tells appliers how an interpreted treaty provision shall be understood.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> Now you can use the → Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (23 May 1969):
> 
> Article 2(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;​
> *OR*​​You can use the → On The Interpretation of Treaties • Law and Philosophy Library • Volume 83 [ISBN 978-1-4020-6362-6 (e-book)]
> 
> Rule #1§4 For the purpose of this rule, parties means any and all states for which the treaty is in force at
> the time of interpretation.​
> *OR*​
> Generally Held: →  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, page 455
> 
> *party (to a treaty)* In terms of art. 2(1)(g) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ), a party is ‘a State which has consented to be bound by
> the treaty and for which the treaty is in force’. Cf . contracting State ; signatory State .
> 
> A *party to a contract* is one who holds the obligations and receives the benefits of a legally binding agreement. When two parties enter into an agreement, there are two distinct roles each play: the promisor and the promisee. The *promisor* is the party that makes the promise, while the *promisee* is on the receiving end of the promise.​
> Don't for a moment think that Section II (Nationality) • Article 30 has anything to do with who is a party to the Treaty or on the decisions as to transfer of territory.  While it is TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the Government of Palestine (a legal entity), it is NOT TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became nationals of the Government of Palestine.  States within the territory west of the Jordan River had been undecided.  And the territory east of the Jordan River was only granted its sovereignty by the treaty with the Mandatory Power (Great Britain) in 1946.  (See Treaty Series page 145)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory, however, was transferred to Palestine. The Palestinians (the people who lived there) became citizens of Palestine. They are the people who have the right to self-determination and sovereignty as subsequent UN resolutions have affirmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NOT transferred anywhere.  And Again, you are mixing apples and oranges.  It cannot be made any clearer.  There was no country created in the territory west of the Jordan River until 15 May 1948 by the National Council for the Jewish State and the Provisional Government; that being the Jewish State of Israel.  At that time, the people of all persuasions, inside the limits of the sovereign territory over which the Jewish.
> 
> Just as a matter of clarity, the Arab Palestinian people did not declare independence.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization that declared independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws.
> 
> Nice obfuscation, though.
> 
> Refute the issues in my post with links.
Click to expand...


You’re not the least bit embarrassed about that?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  Hollie, et al,

There is a concept imperative to the argument that the Israelis took some measure of sovereignty away from the Arab Palestinians.  With a belief in this Idea that the Palestinians had a country, it unravels.



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can use the → Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (23 May 1969):
> 
> Article 2(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are grasping at straws.
> 
> Nice obfuscation, though.
> 
> Refute the issues in my post with links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not the least bit embarrassed about that?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Blind is more likely.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today is the first day of the Islamic month of Rajab.

Like in many places worldwide, Palestinian schools have various announcements meant to be broadcast over school public address systems for various occasions. Sometimes these broadcasts include current events, prayers and the like.

Watania, a Gaza-based news organization, published a script yesterday of what was to be broadcast this morning in Palestinian schools on the occasion of the new lunar month. I don't think this is an official mandate, rather a suggestion of how to make Rajab relevant to students. No doubt some schools do broadcast what is suggested.

The suggested broadcast for today is antisemitic.

It includes this fervent prayer: "Oh Allah we ask that this year be a year of good and peace and that you cleanse the Holy Land from the spiteful Jews, for they are no match for You. Oh Jews, we have a great Lord;  take revenge on them, oh Vanquisher/Subduer, oh Allah, oh Allah, oh Allah."

I found some other transcripts of Palestinian school radio broadcasts sprinkled throughout the Internet and antisemitism is not unusual. For example, this one says Jews could only hold onto Israel because of Muslim negligence:

(full article online)

Palestinian school prayers today: "Oh Allah, cleanse the Holy Land of Jews" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Today is the first day of the Islamic month of Rajab.
> 
> Like in many places worldwide, Palestinian schools have various announcements meant to be broadcast over school public address systems for various occasions. Sometimes these broadcasts include current events, prayers and the like.
> 
> Watania, a Gaza-based news organization, published a script yesterday of what was to be broadcast this morning in Palestinian schools on the occasion of the new lunar month. I don't think this is an official mandate, rather a suggestion of how to make Rajab relevant to students. No doubt some schools do broadcast what is suggested.
> 
> The suggested broadcast for today is antisemitic.
> 
> It includes this fervent prayer: "Oh Allah we ask that this year be a year of good and peace and that you cleanse the Holy Land from the spiteful Jews, for they are no match for You. Oh Jews, we have a great Lord;  take revenge on them, oh Vanquisher/Subduer, oh Allah, oh Allah, oh Allah."
> 
> I found some other transcripts of Palestinian school radio broadcasts sprinkled throughout the Internet and antisemitism is not unusual. For example, this one says Jews could only hold onto Israel because of Muslim negligence:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian school prayers today: "Oh Allah, cleanse the Holy Land of Jews" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



The Jews kicked Palestinian ass because Allah willed it.


----------



## Hollie

I expect to see a news conference where Hamas parades 10 year old girls in front of a camera waving knives and screeching about gee-had.  



Israel seizes $4 million in Iranian terror money sent to Hamas - Defense/Security

Defense Minister Naftali Bennett on Thursday signed an order to seize $4 million transferred from Iran to Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

The money is intended to develop Hamas terrorist infrastructure in Gaza, including the production of weapons and payment to the organization's terrorists, and originates from the Iranian government working against the State of Israel.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now you are taking the "ridiculousness" to new heights.  This is a question in which the first-order rule of interpretation tells appliers how an interpreted treaty provision shall be understood.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> Now you can use the → Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (23 May 1969):
> 
> Article 2(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;​
> *OR*​​You can use the → On The Interpretation of Treaties • Law and Philosophy Library • Volume 83 [ISBN 978-1-4020-6362-6 (e-book)]
> 
> Rule #1§4 For the purpose of this rule, parties means any and all states for which the treaty is in force at
> the time of interpretation.​
> *OR*​
> Generally Held: →  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, page 455
> 
> *party (to a treaty)* In terms of art. 2(1)(g) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ), a party is ‘a State which has consented to be bound by
> the treaty and for which the treaty is in force’. Cf . contracting State ; signatory State .
> 
> A *party to a contract* is one who holds the obligations and receives the benefits of a legally binding agreement. When two parties enter into an agreement, there are two distinct roles each play: the promisor and the promisee. The *promisor* is the party that makes the promise, while the *promisee* is on the receiving end of the promise.​
> Don't for a moment think that Section II (Nationality) • Article 30 has anything to do with who is a party to the Treaty or on the decisions as to transfer of territory.  While it is TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the Government of Palestine (a legal entity), it is NOT TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became nationals of the Government of Palestine.  States within the territory west of the Jordan River had been undecided.  And the territory east of the Jordan River was only granted its sovereignty by the treaty with the Mandatory Power (Great Britain) in 1946.  (See Treaty Series page 145)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory, however, was transferred to Palestine. The Palestinians (the people who lived there) became citizens of Palestine. They are the people who have the right to self-determination and sovereignty as subsequent UN resolutions have affirmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NOT transferred anywhere.  And Again, you are mixing apples and oranges.  It cannot be made any clearer.  There was no country created in the territory west of the Jordan River until 15 May 1948 by the National Council for the Jewish State and the Provisional Government; that being the Jewish State of Israel.  At that time, the people of all persuasions, inside the limits of the sovereign territory over which the Jewish.
> 
> Just as a matter of clarity, the Arab Palestinian people did not declare independence.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization that declared independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws.
> 
> Nice obfuscation, though.
> 
> Refute the issues in my post with links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not the least bit embarrassed about that?
Click to expand...

Remember - human beings are the only species that blushes.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now you are taking the "ridiculousness" to new heights.  This is a question in which the first-order rule of interpretation tells appliers how an interpreted treaty provision shall be understood.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you are basing your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Reading through the Treaty of Lausanne, the parties concerned are the states.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> Now you can use the → Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (23 May 1969):
> 
> Article 2(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;​
> *OR*​​You can use the → On The Interpretation of Treaties • Law and Philosophy Library • Volume 83 [ISBN 978-1-4020-6362-6 (e-book)]
> 
> Rule #1§4 For the purpose of this rule, parties means any and all states for which the treaty is in force at
> the time of interpretation.​
> *OR*​
> Generally Held: →  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, page 455
> 
> *party (to a treaty)* In terms of art. 2(1)(g) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ), a party is ‘a State which has consented to be bound by
> the treaty and for which the treaty is in force’. Cf . contracting State ; signatory State .
> 
> A *party to a contract* is one who holds the obligations and receives the benefits of a legally binding agreement. When two parties enter into an agreement, there are two distinct roles each play: the promisor and the promisee. The *promisor* is the party that makes the promise, while the *promisee* is on the receiving end of the promise.​
> Don't for a moment think that Section II (Nationality) • Article 30 has anything to do with who is a party to the Treaty or on the decisions as to transfer of territory.  While it is TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the Government of Palestine (a legal entity), it is NOT TRUE that the Arab Palestinians became nationals of the Government of Palestine.  States within the territory west of the Jordan River had been undecided.  And the territory east of the Jordan River was only granted its sovereignty by the treaty with the Mandatory Power (Great Britain) in 1946.  (See Treaty Series page 145)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory, however, was transferred to Palestine. The Palestinians (the people who lived there) became citizens of Palestine. They are the people who have the right to self-determination and sovereignty as subsequent UN resolutions have affirmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was NOT transferred anywhere.  And Again, you are mixing apples and oranges.  It cannot be made any clearer.  There was no country created in the territory west of the Jordan River until 15 May 1948 by the National Council for the Jewish State and the Provisional Government; that being the Jewish State of Israel.  At that time, the people of all persuasions, inside the limits of the sovereign territory over which the Jewish.
> 
> Just as a matter of clarity, the Arab Palestinian people did not declare independence.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization that declared independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws.
> 
> Nice obfuscation, though.
> 
> Refute the issues in my post with links.
Click to expand...


All Rocco does is refute your lies with links. You simply cannot handle the truth , as usual


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is in quite a predicament. With Haniyeh being banned from Gaza and Yahya Sinwar in hiding for fear of IsraelI retaliatory responses, the more excitable of the Iranian occupation forces (PIJ), has a greater role in the gee-had. 

It’s difficult to determine if Cairo has anywhere near the leverage with PIJ that they had with Hamas. If Iran orders PIJ to launch attacks aimed Israel, there may be limited options for the Israelis to defend themselves short of a sweeping campaign to root out the threat. 


Hamas Fails to Curb Palestinian Islamic Jihad

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Following recent rocket fire, Israel cannot tolerate “the rules of the game” that Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) is trying to impose on it, and the objective of reaching a long-term “understanding” with the main terrorist group, Hamas, is looking increasingly distant.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic totalitarianism has real consequences.
*


PA: You're a "traitor" if you sell land to Jews | PMW Analysis

PA: You're a "traitor" if you sell land to Jews*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 28, 2020

Any Palestinian who sells land to Jews is “a traitor,” according to the Palestinian Authority. This was recently reiterated by a PA governor who instructed the PA police to “take the firmest steps” against anyone who has sold or transferred land to Jews. He emphasized that anyone doing so is “a traitor”:


----------



## Sixties Fan

Qattati says that this made a huge impression on him, and gave him a reason for hating Israel for making him a refugee. But why, if he lived in El Arish, wasn't he an Egyptian citizen? Why is his teacher treating him differently than other students?

Why is there no anger towards the Arab world for "othering" Palestinians?

Yet there isn't. Instead, there is antisemitism.

The bulk of the article is a plea for Palestinians to return to revolution, and a culture of revolution in its media, with songs glorifying martyrdom and violence. Qattati is upset that many Palestinians seem to have abandoned that revolutionary spirit.

However, he  concludes, there is something that all Palestinians have in common: "At least we - the Palestinians - can agree on one goal: to make the Jewish settlers unable to live among us, and not be able to remain in Palestine."

He can say, without fear of contradiction, that all Palestinians want to get rid of all the Jews in "Palestine."

(full article online)

"Palestinians can agree on one goal: Eliminate Jews from Palestine" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

“Conquer the world”.

Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill. 

Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.



Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.



Hollie said:


> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World


*(COMMENT)*

I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.

The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.  

◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”). 
◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.  




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
Click to expand...


Is bombing a pizza restaurant a response that is okay in your opinion?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is bombing a pizza restaurant a response that is okay in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Israel can stop its war any time it wants.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is bombing a pizza restaurant a response that is okay in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...


Is bombing a pizza restaurant a response that is okay in your opinion?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
Click to expand...


That’s another of your cut and paste slogans. The Hamas Charter is a restatement of Islamic offensive gee-had. It is not a response to Israeli aggression but an affirmation of Islamist ideology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is bombing a pizza restaurant a response that is okay in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is bombing a pizza restaurant a response that is okay in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...


What war? That’s another of the slogans you litter various threads with but you’re never able to support the claim.

Link?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Now this is a very vivid case of selective application of International Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Conquer the world”.
> 
> Brought to you by the Cult that can’t pay their electric bill.
> 
> Of course, though, not everyone is quite so sanguine about the prospects of a revival of the wholesome medieval Islamic values of sharia, gee-had, and... holy mass murder for Allah.
> Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed: It Is Time to Announce Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem, Set out for Rome and the White House, Conquer the World
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I have heard every pro-Arab Palestinian complain about the double stand and raise the issue as to why the restrictions on Arab Palestinian travel across into Israel are still in force and may even get more restrictive.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians know damn well that the incitement of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence is a direct violation of International Law.
> 
> ◈  Article 19(3) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”).
> ◈  Article 4(a) of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”),
> ◈  Article 1a  S/RES/1624 (2005) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts.
> ◈  Article 2 UN Charter on Threats to Use Force - Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threats to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; (Amplified by A/RES/2/110)​
> These include respect for the rights of others, public order, prohibition of abuse of rights, or national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinians are merely responding.-
Click to expand...


Stupid mantra.
If you were for a just cause, why the need to lie so boldly?

Arab pogroms against Jews happened all around the Caliphate,
they expelled all the Jews from their holy cities, before any Israeli ever shot a bullet.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You say this quite frequently, but the act of aggression, as it is defined, was first taken by the Arab League on (they claim) the behalf of the Arb Palestinians.

UNIPAL DOCUMENTS BY YEAR Press Release PAL/167 16 May 1948:  "we were compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."  

"The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression"...​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel can stop its war any time it wants.


*(COMMENT)*

Prepared Open Statement by:  Jamal Husseini, of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC):  (EXCERPT)

In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, *solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal,* any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status.​
The AHC previously stated that:  "determination of every Arab in Palestine is *to oppose in every way* the partition of that country." (16 FEB 1948)  This concept was again reiterated in 1968 when the PLO stated:  "* Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."*

Article 5(1) - A/RES/29/3314 Definition of Aggression:  No consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for aggression.  And in 1988, the Arab Palestinians again restated that: * "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."*

There is no question that the Arab Palestinians left their territorial integrity in force - entering another venue, not their own, to archive some unjustified objective.  The Arab League was the "Aggressor" at the outbreak of hostilities in 1948 and 2013 emphasized that: * "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine*."

But what really counts is what is happening TODAY*! *


			
				[SIZE=4]Violence Goes Global if Abbas Gets His Way[/SIZE] said:
			
		

> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has issued a call-to-arms for a new Intifada against Israel. The president himself is on tour, drumming up support from Arab and Muslim nations around the world to support the Palestinians and their Intifada against Israel and the United States and Western countries around the world.
> SOURCE:  *Sunday March 01, 2020 SOURCE: NEWSMAX*  by Micah Halpern








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> UNIPAL DOCUMENTS BY YEAR Press Release PAL/167 16 May 1948: "we were compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."
> 
> "The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression"...


we were compelled to *enter Palestine*​
Enter Palestine not Israel. Nobody attacked "Israel."

protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."​
Protecting unarmed Arabs is not aggression it is defense.

How can you read that so wrong? Then, *again,* you base your conclusions on false premise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, *solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal,* any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status.


Protecting the Palestinians right to territorial integrity is not aggression it is defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Protecting the Palestinians right to territorial integrity is not aggression it is defense.



Arab-Moslems massing at the IsraelI border attempting to “rip the hearts out of Jews” is “defense”?

Link?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNIPAL DOCUMENTS BY YEAR Press Release PAL/167 16 May 1948: "we were compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."
> 
> "The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression"...
> 
> 
> 
> we were compelled to *enter Palestine*​
> Enter Palestine not Israel. Nobody attacked "Israel."
> 
> protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."​
> Protecting unarmed Arabs is not aggression it is defense.
> 
> How can you read that so wrong? Then, *again,* you base your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...


I ask you for the hundredth time Tinmore, how are the Palestinians ‘protecting unarmed Arabs’? Please bring up specific events .


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, *solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal,* any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status.
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Palestinians right to territorial integrity is not aggression it is defense.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, *solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal,* any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status.
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Palestinians right to territorial integrity is not aggression it is defense.
Click to expand...

Link to Specific events of Palestinians defending themselves ???


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, *solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal,* any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status.
> 
> 
> 
> Protecting the Palestinians right to territorial integrity is not aggression it is defense.
Click to expand...


Who said "Palestinian territorial integrity" has anything to do with 
exclusive Arab domination of the middle east?


----------



## Sixties Fan

More bogus claims of "settlers" cutting down Palestinian trees - on Shabbat ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNIPAL DOCUMENTS BY YEAR Press Release PAL/167 16 May 1948: "we were compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."
> 
> "The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression"...
> 
> 
> 
> we were compelled to *enter Palestine*​
> Enter Palestine not Israel. Nobody attacked "Israel."
> 
> protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."​
> Protecting unarmed Arabs is not aggression it is defense.
> 
> How can you read that so wrong? Then, *again,* you base your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...


_we were compelled to *enter Palestine*

Enter Palestine not Israel. Nobody attacked "Israel."
_
They entered the country of Palestine?

*Protecting unarmed Arabs is not aggression it is defense.*

Is bombing a pizza restaurant defense?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> UNIPAL DOCUMENTS BY YEAR Press Release PAL/167 16 May 1948: "we were compelled to enter Palestine to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."
> 
> "The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression"...
> 
> 
> 
> we were compelled to *enter Palestine*​
> Enter Palestine not Israel. Nobody attacked "Israel."
> 
> protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin."​
> Protecting unarmed Arabs is not aggression it is defense.
> 
> How can you read that so wrong? Then, *again,* you base your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...


This press release is dated May 16, 1948.  Israel declared independence two days prior to that, on May 14, 1948.  Therefore the territory that the Arab armies invaded was no longer Palestine, but Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→  et al,

The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it.  That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory. 



ForeverYoung436 said:


> This press release is dated May 16, 1948.  Israel declared independence two days prior to that, on May 14, 1948.  Therefore the territory that the Arab armies invaded was no longer Palestine, but Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

*IF* the Arab League Forces crossed into the Legal Entity (outside their sovereignty, *THEN* they committed an Act of Aggression -  for which there is NO Justification.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.


Links?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I should have known_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
→  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
→  it will still not be a sovereign state
→  it will not be immediately self-governing
→  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter

  1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements: 
Chapter XII
a.* territories now held under mandate*;
→   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
→   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •





05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​
If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.


Links?
You are ducking my post.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
Click to expand...

The blue writing are links.

Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.


----------



## toastman

Tinmore needs a link that shows Israel is what it was called after May 1948


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toastman said:


> Tinmore needs a link that shows Israel is what it was called after May 1948



The link said "independent Jewish state."  I guess he doesn't know that means Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
Click to expand...


You again embarrassed yourself on a public message board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
Click to expand...

OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

All of it is relevant...



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.


*(COMMENT)*

It is all right there in short form, with links.

You are just pretending something is not there, or that I did not answer some aspect of the question.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it.  That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This press release is dated May 16, 1948.  Israel declared independence two days prior to that, on May 14, 1948.  Therefore the territory that the Arab armies invaded was no longer Palestine, but Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* the Arab League Forces crossed into the Legal Entity (outside their sovereignty, *THEN* they committed an Act of Aggression -  for which there is NO Justification.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

They entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians.

So where is the aggression?


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?

Link saying that is legal?


----------



## Mindful

*Prisons?*
*by Bassam Tawil
March 2, 2020 at 5:00 am*



The families' calls for launching investigations into the death of their sons while in Hamas detention have been ignored not only by Hamas, but also by the international community, human rights organizations and media.


Al-Sa'afeen's mother emphasized that the Israelis treat Palestinians much better than Hamas does. "When the Jews arrest someone, they contact his family to say they are holding him... But Hamas refused to provide us with any information about the detention of my son or his health condition.... We told [Hamas] that he's sick and needs medicine, but they refused to give him any treatment. Until today, we don't know why my son was arrested."


When Palestinians die in Palestinian prisons, the murders are presumably regarded as the handiwork of supposedly savage Arabs, who are -- with racist contempt -- held to a lower standard of conduct than Westerners, and therefore regarded as unworthy of human rights, accountable governance, due process or equal justice under the law.


They are evidently considered "just" Palestinian families complaining about brutal torture in Palestinian prisons -- so international human rights organizations do not even notice them.
Why Are Palestinians Dying in Hamas Prisons?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
Click to expand...


Are you serious?

*The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel*


The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel
On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
Click to expand...


Aside from all the previous links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the answer is: “because they can”



Why Are Palestinians Dying in Hamas Prisons?






When Palestinians are brutally tortured and die of dubious causes in Hamas prisons, the murders are ignored not only by Hamas, but also by the international community, human rights organizations and media. Pictured: A jailed Palestinian in Gaza City on November 7, 2018. (Photo by Thomas Coex/AFP via Getty Images)


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
Click to expand...


That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
Click to expand...

There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.

It is now.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> 
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, ForeverYoung436 comparison does not fit the case of Israel.
Because it the opposite of illegal conquest, then and now.

International law vested all sovereignty in Palestine/Eretz Israel with the Jewish nation,
for the RE-CONSTITUTION of their homeland as "the trust of civilizations" -
land returned to its nation.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  et al,

The Arab League only used "defend the Palestinians" as an excuse.  Egypt took the Gaza Strip and stayed for 20 years, and the Jordanians kept the West Bank (even annexed it) for 20 years.




P F Tinmore said:


> They entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians.
> 
> So where is the aggression?





			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> *IF* the Arab League Forces crossed into the Legal Entity (outside their sovereignty, *THEN* they committed an Act of Aggression -  for which there is NO Justification.  (*Article 5§1*)


*(COMMENT)*

To "defend the Palestinians" was just an attempt at an excuse to take territory by force.*

One more time:  *No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful. (*Article 5§3*)*
*



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all due respect, ForeverYoung436 comparison does not fit the case of Israel.
> Because it the opposite from illegal conquest, bot by standards back then and now.
> 
> International law vested all sovereignty in Palestine/Eretz Israel with the Jewish nation,
> for the RE-CONSTITUTION of their homeland as "the trust of civilizations",
> land returned to its nation.
Click to expand...

Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. That which was initially Israel, and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You again embarrassed yourself on a public message board.
Click to expand...




Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I should have known_*!*_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity =  •  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 •
> →  legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”
> →  it will still not be a sovereign state
> →  it will not be immediately self-governing
> →  authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​◈    Article 77  Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System  UN Charter
> 1. The *trusteeship system* shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
> Chapter XII
> a.* territories now held under mandate*;
> →   •  T/P.V.33,T/PV.33 1 December 1947 •  “I have the honour to draw your attention to the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 29 November 1947 concerning the future government of Palestine, in which it is requested that ‘the Trusteeship Council be informed of the responsibilities envisaged for it in this plan.’  "*The motion was carried by nine votes to one.*"​→   • PAL/169 17 May 1948 • In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been *implemented*."
> →   Self-Determination • S/747  16 May 1948 • National Council for the Jewish State  - "adopts resolution for the establishment of *independent Jewish State*"
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​05/17/1948  S/747  Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr. 1948/05/17 •
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/17/1948  PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die •​If *(IF anyone sees that)* I forgot something, or - there is something you don't understand, please please let me know.  I tried not to do a long explanation.  Pretty much "Link" and "Title/Purpose."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key is that after 15 May, the legal entity had two shapes to it. *That which was initially Israel,* and that which was declined Arabs and became Article 77 Trustee Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?
> 
> *The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel*
> 
> 
> The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel
> On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution.
Click to expand...


i think he is


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, hummm.  So Israel, on invitation by the Allied Powers having the Title and Rights to the territory, did not violate Arab Palestinian Right and did not commit and act of aggression.

The creation of the State of Israel was not a violation of the UN Charter, where as the Aarab League intervention was an act of aggression under Article 2§4 of the UN Charter



P F Tinmore said:


> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.


*(COMMENT)*

So, in 1948, the only instrument violated by the Arab League was the UN Charter _(an international agreement concluded between States)_.  We will disregard Customary Law all together.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ et al,

He is just avoiding the answer, as if hiding his head will make it less applicable.



P F Tinmore said:


> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)


*(COMMENT)*

He calls it a "data dump" because it answers the question.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Yes, hummm. So Israel, on invitation by the Allied Powers having the Title and Rights to the territory, did not violate Arab Palestinian Right and did not commit and act of aggression.


There is that external interference that you love so much.
The title and rights were transferred to the new states. No foreign intervention was mentioned.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> He is just avoiding the answer, as if hiding his head will make it less applicable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> He calls it a "data dump" because it answers the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

For example:

You constantly post about the violation of international borders.

You never mention that Israel has no borders to violate and that it is Israel that has violated Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> He is just avoiding the answer, as if hiding his head will make it less applicable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> He calls it a "data dump" because it answers the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> You constantly post about the violation of international borders.
> 
> You never mention that Israel has no borders to violate and that it is Israel that has violated Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...


The nation of Israel has more borders than the imaginary nation of Palestine.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> He is just avoiding the answer, as if hiding his head will make it less applicable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> He calls it a "data dump" because it answers the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> You constantly post about the violation of international borders.
> 
> You never mention that Israel has no borders to violate and that it is Israel that has violated Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...


The borders allotted for Palestine were vested with Jewish sovereignty under international law.
Administrative documents had 'Palestine/Eretz Israel' written in the title.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> He is just avoiding the answer, as if hiding his head will make it less applicable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> He calls it a "data dump" because it answers the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> You constantly post about the violation of international borders.
> 
> You never mention that Israel has no borders to violate and that it is Israel that has violated Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The borders allotted for Palestine were vested with Jewish sovereignty under international law.
> Administrative documents had 'Palestine/Eretz Israel' written in the title.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> He is just avoiding the answer, as if hiding his head will make it less applicable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> He calls it a "data dump" because it answers the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> You constantly post about the violation of international borders.
> 
> You never mention that Israel has no borders to violate and that it is Israel that has violated Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The borders allotted for Palestine were vested with Jewish sovereignty under international law.
> Administrative documents had 'Palestine/Eretz Israel' written in the title.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Raise your hand and asks questions when you don't understand what has been presented.

Your cut and paste slogans won't help you learn.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all due respect, ForeverYoung436 comparison does not fit the case of Israel.
> Because it the opposite from illegal conquest, bot by standards back then and now.
> 
> International law vested all sovereignty in Palestine/Eretz Israel with the Jewish nation,
> for the RE-CONSTITUTION of their homeland as "the trust of civilizations",
> land returned to its nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all due respect, ForeverYoung436 comparison does not fit the case of Israel.
> Because it the opposite from illegal conquest, bot by standards back then and now.
> 
> International law vested all sovereignty in Palestine/Eretz Israel with the Jewish nation,
> for the RE-CONSTITUTION of their homeland as "the trust of civilizations",
> land returned to its nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link (Not just a RoccoR data dump hoping that there is something relevant in there.)
Click to expand...

You call it a data dump because you can’t handle the simple truth that he demolished your so called argument


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Over the last year, I have given you every key piece of information you need to debunk every single claim for territory.  They have consistently said that "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." and that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  Out of their own mouth, the way for peace is not the direction they are headed.

I am convinced that you don't know what an international boundary is.  I further suspect that you have not read either of the Articles within the Peace Treaties covering the two principle land areas which cover the establishment of the international boundaries between Israel and the two Arab League members that once had control over the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

I am also convinced that you don't know the difference between the nationality of people being assigned to new states - and that of - territorial Rights and Title being relinquished form in favor of another party to the treaty  Again, it sounds like to me that you are suggesting that the Arab Palestinians are somehow the beneficiaries of the Treaty of Laussane; which brought finalization and conclusion marking an ended to the  hostilities in the Middle Eastern theatre between the Ottoman Empire and the Allies of World War I.

Let me make this abundantly clear.  In no way are former officers of the Ottoman Army like Mohammed Amin al-Husseini and Ahmed Hilmi Pasha suppose to benefit from the settlement between the warring parties.  This is just as true at the end of WWI and it was after WWII.

The Subject of INTERNATIONAL LAW • Fifth Edition • Cambridge Press     Page 191
This duty not to intervene in matters within the domestic jurisdiction of any state was included in the Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States adopted in October 1970 by the United Nations General Assembly. It was emphasised that
.
[n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.​.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, hummm. So Israel, on invitation by the Allied Powers having the Title and Rights to the territory, did not violate Arab Palestinian Right and did not commit and act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> There is that external interference that you love so much.
> The title and rights were transferred to the new states. No foreign intervention was mentioned.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is clear to me here, that you do not know what is meant by foreign interference.  Title and rights over the territory are not transferred in accordance with the decisions of the Allied Powers and not under the coercive atmosphere generated by the population of the former Occupied Enemy Territory that was under the administration of the Allied Powers.



P F Tinmore said:


> For example:
> 
> You constantly post about the violation of international borders.
> 
> You never mention that Israel has no borders to violate and that it is Israel that has violated Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you prove you do not understand.  The line on a map is not real _per se_, but rather an "imaginary lines" on the surface of the earth which separate the land territory of one State from that of another.  What makes it real is that "a land boundary should be easy to identify and difficult to cross." _ (See The Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law  Page 69)_

For the last half-century, the Arab Palestinians have been trying to establish through "armed struggle and Jihad" that they have some superior right to the territory.  The Arab Palestinians have been holding peace ransom to coerce the Israeli population to capitulate and surrender all their territory (from the river to the sea) on the possibility that it will lead to a better regional profile.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all due respect, ForeverYoung436 comparison does not fit the case of Israel.
> Because it the opposite of illegal conquest, then and now.
> 
> International law vested all sovereignty in Palestine/Eretz Israel with the Jewish nation,
> for the RE-CONSTITUTION of their homeland as "the trust of civilizations" -
> land returned to its nation.
Click to expand...


Who said anything about "conquest?"  Maybe Tinmore did, but not I.  What I meant was that Israel declared independence within a geographic area known as Palestine (although Jews have always called that geographic area Eretz Yisrael), just like the United States declared independence within the geographic area known as North America.  I was not alluding to Native American Indians, but to geography.  And yes, I agree that Jews are native to Eretz Yisrael.  It's the Arabs who are invaders from Arabia.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.


Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
Click to expand...


Indeed_, "...the internal or external affairs of any other state."

_
Indeed, you're referring to your invented "State of Pally'land"?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
Click to expand...


Which state were they intervening in at the San Remo conference?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> 
> 
> The blue writing are links.
> 
> Also, YOU are the one who has been ducking my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but what part of all that addresses my post? Most, if not all of that, is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question implied was how did Israel declare independence inside Palestine?
> 
> Link saying that is legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is like asking if it was legal for the United States to declare independence inside North America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no international law back then. Conquest was not illegal.
> 
> It is now.
Click to expand...



  Another Tinmore lie

The *International Law* Commission (ILC) is a body of experts established in 1947 by the *United Nations* General Assembly (UNGA) to help develop and codify *international law*. It is composed of 34 individuals elected every five years by the UNGA for their "recognized competence and qualifications" in *international law*.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Nearly every intelligent power discusses post-War strategies assuming they will be victorious.  The San Remo Convention was no different from what experienced combatants did for several centuries prior to the opening of the 20th Century.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Once the Opposing Force_ (the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic)_ renounced all rights and title in favor of the Victorious _(The Allied Powers)_ the future of the disputed territories were to be determined by the parties concerned _(the signatories of the Treaty)_.

"The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other."​
The question you have to ask yourself, who are the foreigners? 

◈  The ones that hold the title and rights to the territory?

◈  Those inhabitants of the formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration? 

◈  The powers that had the authority to facilitate Jewish immigration necessary to establish the national home for the Jewish people.

◈  Those that declined to participate in the establishment of the self-governing institution?

◈  Those that rejected the High Commissioner's call to provide advice and assistance in the governance and administration of the territory, formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration.​
Your concept of arguing that "foreign" anything has a being on the authority to administer or rule a territory is totally fallacious.

Israeli Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the national bearer of supreme authority within a State. This may be a collective unit _(ie The Knesset)_. . . .




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
Click to expand...

Got a link and map that shows a country called a Palestine from the time San Remo ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Nearly every intelligent power discusses post-War strategies assuming they will be victorious.  The San Remo Convention was no different from what experienced combatants did for several centuries prior to the opening of the 20th Century.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once the Opposing Force_ (the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic)_ renounced all rights and title in favor of the Victorious _(The Allied Powers)_ the future of the disputed territories were to be determined by the parties concerned _(the signatories of the Treaty)_.
> 
> "The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other."​
> The question you have to ask yourself, who are the foreigners?
> 
> ◈  The ones that hold the title and rights to the territory?
> 
> ◈  Those inhabitants of the formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration?
> 
> ◈  The powers that had the authority to facilitate Jewish immigration necessary to establish the national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> ◈  Those that declined to participate in the establishment of the self-governing institution?
> 
> ◈  Those that rejected the High Commissioner's call to provide advice and assistance in the governance and administration of the territory, formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration.​
> Your concept of arguing that "foreign" anything has a being on the authority to administer or rule a territory is totally fallacious.
> 
> Israeli Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the national bearer of supreme authority within a State. This may be a collective unit _(ie The Knesset)_. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that there is no Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Nearly every intelligent power discusses post-War strategies assuming they will be victorious.  The San Remo Convention was no different from what experienced combatants did for several centuries prior to the opening of the 20th Century.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once the Opposing Force_ (the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic)_ renounced all rights and title in favor of the Victorious _(The Allied Powers)_ the future of the disputed territories were to be determined by the parties concerned _(the signatories of the Treaty)_.
> 
> "The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other."​
> The question you have to ask yourself, who are the foreigners?
> 
> ◈  The ones that hold the title and rights to the territory?
> 
> ◈  Those inhabitants of the formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration?
> 
> ◈  The powers that had the authority to facilitate Jewish immigration necessary to establish the national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> ◈  Those that declined to participate in the establishment of the self-governing institution?
> 
> ◈  Those that rejected the High Commissioner's call to provide advice and assistance in the governance and administration of the territory, formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration.​
> Your concept of arguing that "foreign" anything has a being on the authority to administer or rule a territory is totally fallacious.
> 
> Israeli Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the national bearer of supreme authority within a State. This may be a collective unit _(ie The Knesset)_. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that there is no Palestine.
Click to expand...


Just like you pimp Palestinian unsubstantiated talking points that there is no Israel


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Nearly every intelligent power discusses post-War strategies assuming they will be victorious.  The San Remo Convention was no different from what experienced combatants did for several centuries prior to the opening of the 20th Century.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> [n]o state or group of states has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly,
> for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other state.
> Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or
> attempted threats against the personality of the state or against its political,
> economic and cultural elements, are in violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, like all of those foreigners sitting around San Remo deciding what they were going to do to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once the Opposing Force_ (the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic)_ renounced all rights and title in favor of the Victorious _(The Allied Powers)_ the future of the disputed territories were to be determined by the parties concerned _(the signatories of the Treaty)_.
> 
> "The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other."​
> The question you have to ask yourself, who are the foreigners?
> 
> ◈  The ones that hold the title and rights to the territory?
> 
> ◈  Those inhabitants of the formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration?
> 
> ◈  The powers that had the authority to facilitate Jewish immigration necessary to establish the national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> ◈  Those that declined to participate in the establishment of the self-governing institution?
> 
> ◈  Those that rejected the High Commissioner's call to provide advice and assistance in the governance and administration of the territory, formerly under the governance of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration.​
> Your concept of arguing that "foreign" anything has a being on the authority to administer or rule a territory is totally fallacious.
> 
> Israeli Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the national bearer of supreme authority within a State. This may be a collective unit _(ie The Knesset)_. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that there is no Palestine.
Click to expand...


You’re still not paying attention.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, I have not seen this "Taking Point" Paper that you refer to.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that there is no Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

I am not sure if you are purposely altering the context, or if you truly have a comprehension problem.

I actually presented documentation _(with links)_ several times, within the last month, that explained the status of "Palestine" as *a "legal entity*."  And I presented documentation on the change to *the term "Palestine" from* the UN Office of Legal Affairs.

Not once did I categorically say (in context) that "there is no Palestine."  And you have responded that these presentations are some sort of "Data Dump." 

They are not "Data Dumps" but legitimate presentations of evidence on the topic under discussion → to prevent the propaganda mangling and mutilation of the facts _(that you do so well)_.

I have noticed that when I don't put the Links in and identify them, you come back and ask for the links.  If I do put the links in, you come back and accuse me of making a data dump.  I realize that I cannot present any set of facts on any aspect that is documented that will change your mind.  But I can help others with a quick reference from legitimate sources on the topic under discussion.  I also notice that you have a habit of manipulating the facts and changing context.  In this last week_ (maybe ten days)_ you took an excerpt from the Lausanne Treaty (Article 30) on Naturalization and tried to transpose it to an effect on territory clauses.  Similarly, you took the meaning of "concerned parties" to mean the Arab Palestinians and not the signatories to the treaty.  Again, I cannot change your mind, but I can clean up your propaganda effort.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, I have not seen this "Taking Point" Paper that you refer to.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that there is no Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am not sure if you are purposely altering the context, or if you truly have a comprehension problem.
> 
> I actually presented documentation _(with links)_ several times, within the last month, that explained the status of "Palestine" as *a "legal entity*."  And I presented documentation on the change to *the term "Palestine" from* the UN Office of Legal Affairs.
> 
> Not once did I categorically say (in context) that "there is no Palestine."  And you have responded that these presentations are some sort of "Data Dump."
> 
> They are not "Data Dumps" but legitimate presentations of evidence on the topic under discussion → to prevent the propaganda mangling and mutilation of the facts _(that you do so well)_.
> 
> I have noticed that when I don't put the Links in and identify them, you come back and ask for the links.  If I do put the links in, you come back and accuse me of making a data dump.  I realize that I cannot present any set of facts on any aspect that is documented that will change your mind.  But I can help others with a quick reference from legitimate sources on the topic under discussion.  I also notice that you have a habit of manipulating the facts and changing context.  In this last week_ (maybe ten days)_ you took an excerpt from the Lausanne Treaty (Article 30) on Naturalization and tried to transpose it to an effect on territory clauses.  Similarly, you took the meaning of "concerned parties" to mean the Arab Palestinians and not the signatories to the treaty.  Again, I cannot change your mind, but I can clean up your propaganda effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Not once did I categorically say (in context) that "there is no Palestine." And you have responded that these presentations are some sort of "Data Dump."


All people, including the Palestinians, have the standard list of rights. UN resolutions have specifically affirmed these rights for the Palestinians.

Do you believe that the Palestinians have these standard rights?

1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
Yes?
No?

2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
Yes?
No?

3) The right to territorial integrity.
Yes?
No?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, I have not seen this "Taking Point" Paper that you refer to.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that there is no Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am not sure if you are purposely altering the context, or if you truly have a comprehension problem.
> 
> I actually presented documentation _(with links)_ several times, within the last month, that explained the status of "Palestine" as *a "legal entity*."  And I presented documentation on the change to *the term "Palestine" from* the UN Office of Legal Affairs.
> 
> Not once did I categorically say (in context) that "there is no Palestine."  And you have responded that these presentations are some sort of "Data Dump."
> 
> They are not "Data Dumps" but legitimate presentations of evidence on the topic under discussion → to prevent the propaganda mangling and mutilation of the facts _(that you do so well)_.
> 
> I have noticed that when I don't put the Links in and identify them, you come back and ask for the links.  If I do put the links in, you come back and accuse me of making a data dump.  I realize that I cannot present any set of facts on any aspect that is documented that will change your mind.  But I can help others with a quick reference from legitimate sources on the topic under discussion.  I also notice that you have a habit of manipulating the facts and changing context.  In this last week_ (maybe ten days)_ you took an excerpt from the Lausanne Treaty (Article 30) on Naturalization and tried to transpose it to an effect on territory clauses.  Similarly, you took the meaning of "concerned parties" to mean the Arab Palestinians and not the signatories to the treaty.  Again, I cannot change your mind, but I can clean up your propaganda effort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not once did I categorically say (in context) that "there is no Palestine." And you have responded that these presentations are some sort of "Data Dump."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All people, including the Palestinians, have the standard list of rights. UN resolutions have specifically affirmed these rights for the Palestinians.
> 
> Do you believe that the Palestinians have these standard rights?
> 
> 1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> Yes?
> No?
Click to expand...

 
ALL PEOPLE? Does that include the Israelis Including rights to their religious sites?
     Yes?
      No?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I have always acknowledged these rights.  They are right up front in the UN Charter.



P F Tinmore said:


> 1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> Yes?
> No?


*(ANSWERS)*

Question 1:  YES
•  Article 1§ 2 Chapter I  UN Charter​
_NOTE:  The terminology "Without external Inteference" comes from Para A/RES/50/172 (Non-Binding) but implied by the Charter in "Self"-Determination._​Question 2:  YES 
•  Article 2§1 Chapter I  UN Charter for Soverenty
•  Article 2§4 Chapter I  UN Charter for Independence​
Question 3:  YES •  Article 2§4 Chapter I  UN Charter​
*(ELUCIDATION)*

These rights are NOT exclusive to the Palestinians.  They cannot take the rights at the expense of others

It is the same as my right to have one-hundred dollars.  Yes, I have that right.  But that does not entitle me to take one-hundred dollars from you.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I have always acknowledged these rights.  They are right up front in the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> Question 1:  YES
> •  Article 1§ 2 Chapter I  UN Charter
> _NOTE:  The terminology "Without external Inteference" comes from Para A/RES/50/172 (Non-Binding) but implied by the Charter in "Self"-Determination._​Question 2:  YES
> •  Article 2§1 Chapter I  UN Charter for Soverenty
> •  Article 2§4 Chapter I  UN Charter for Independence​Question 3:  YES •  Article 2§4 Chapter I  UN Charter​
> *(ELUCIDATION)*
> 
> These rights are NOT exclusive to the Palestinians.  They cannot take the rights at the expense of others
> 
> It is the same as my right to have one-hundred dollars.  Yes, I have that right.  But that does not entitle me to take one-hundred dollars from you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The question he never answers is do the Israelis have the same rights including access to their Holy Sites.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I have always acknowledged these rights.  They are right up front in the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> Question 1:  YES
> •  Article 1§ 2 Chapter I  UN Charter
> _NOTE:  The terminology "Without external Inteference" comes from Para A/RES/50/172 (Non-Binding) but implied by the Charter in "Self"-Determination._​Question 2:  YES
> •  Article 2§1 Chapter I  UN Charter for Soverenty
> •  Article 2§4 Chapter I  UN Charter for Independence​Question 3:  YES •  Article 2§4 Chapter I  UN Charter​
> *(ELUCIDATION)*
> 
> These rights are NOT exclusive to the Palestinians.  They cannot take the rights at the expense of others
> 
> It is the same as my right to have one-hundred dollars.  Yes, I have that right.  But that does not entitle me to take one-hundred dollars from you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The question he never answers is do the Israelis have the same rights including access to their Holy Sites.
Click to expand...


I wonder if Tinmore believes we even HAVE holy sites there, since we're supposedly "foreigners" in that land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> Question 1: YES
> • Article 1§ 2 Chapter I  UN Charter
> _NOTE: The terminology "Without external Inteference" comes from Para A/RES/50/172 (Non-Binding) but implied by the Charter in "Self"-Determination._
> Question 2: YES
> • Article 2§1 Chapter I UN Charter for Soverenty
> • Article 2§4 Chapter I UN Charter for Independence
> Question 3: YES • Article 2§4 Chapter I UN Charter


So then, why do you side with everyone who violate those rights?

What is in it for you?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> All people, including the Palestinians, have the standard list of rights. UN resolutions have specifically affirmed these rights for the Palestinians.
> 
> Do you believe that the Palestinians have these standard rights?
> 
> 1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> Yes?
> No?



You see the criteria above as self-evident and "standard", but you never acknowledge the problem that #1 and #2 are incompatible with #3 when discussing emerging sovereignties.  

How can Spain keep her territorial integrity when Catalonia achieves her self-determination, sovereignty and independence?  Given that these two things are mutually exclusive, which has precedence?  Spain's territory? or Catalonia's self-determination?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All people, including the Palestinians, have the standard list of rights. UN resolutions have specifically affirmed these rights for the Palestinians.
> 
> Do you believe that the Palestinians have these standard rights?
> 
> 1) The right to self determination *without external interference.*
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> Yes?
> No?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You see the criteria above as self-evident and "standard", but you never acknowledge the problem that #1 and #2 are incompatible with #3 when discussing emerging sovereignties.
> 
> How can Spain keep her territorial integrity when Catalonia achieves her self-determination, sovereignty and independence?  Given that these two things are mutually exclusive, which has precedence?  Spain's territory? or Catalonia's self-determination?
Click to expand...


Also keeping in mind that Catalonians are far more civilized and less savage than Palestinian Arabs are.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWERS)*
> 
> Question 1: YES
> • Article 1§ 2 Chapter I  UN Charter
> _NOTE: The terminology "Without external Inteference" comes from Para A/RES/50/172 (Non-Binding) but implied by the Charter in "Self"-Determination._
> Question 2: YES
> • Article 2§1 Chapter I UN Charter for Soverenty
> • Article 2§4 Chapter I UN Charter for Independence
> Question 3: YES • Article 2§4 Chapter I UN Charter
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why do you side with everyone who violate those rights?
> 
> What is in it for you?
Click to expand...

All Rocco does is post facts with links. You on the other hand , post lies and propaganda backed up by more lies and propaganda ....


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I call it a political illusion that changes as your viewing angle rotates.  We want to See, Perceived, and Interact with a certain perspective.  It is a case of what you see is different from reality.





Although you see the shapes, you know that they cannot exist in reality.  The same type of political illusion exists when looking at the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.



P F Tinmore said:


> So then, why do you side with everyone who violates those rights?


*(COMMENT)*

No one has violated Arab Palestinian Rights.  It is an illusion.

◈  Where do you propose to initiate self-determination?
◈  Where are you going to establish your sovereign and independent state?
◈  What territory did the Arab Palestinian actually establish the sovereign and thus requires "integrity" protection?​
How is that accomplished?



P F Tinmore said:


> What is in it for you?


*(COMMENT)*

Only a few Arab Palestinians can see the damage and the outcome the Arab Palestinian leadership has created.   It looks like someone took something away from them; but in reality, NOT.

 ​I look at the contributions the Israelis made and compare it to what the Arab Palestinians have accomplished.

◈  From the River to the sea:  28,166 sq km _(23% of the original territory under Mandate)_.
◈  Jewish State allocation: ≈ 56% or 15772.96 sq km
◈  Arab State Allocation:  ≈ 44% or  12393.04 sq km
✦ ∆ 3379.92 sq km or 1305 sq mi or slightly smaller than Euboea_ (in the Aegean Sea)_, the second largest Island of Greece. Its total area is 3,655 sq km.  If you trimmed a little here and there, and the tide was just right, you might be able to make it fit.
Put in perspective, the size of Area A _(full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority)_ of the West Bank is ≈ 5,861 sq km or 2,263 sq mi.  
Since 29 Sept 2000, the Arab Palestinians attribute between 9560 death and 9935 deaths.  In perspective, that casualty figure is less than one-third the number of highway death in the US per year.​There is a perception here.  There is a perception that the Arab League truly supports the Arab-Palestinians.  And while the US is the worst country ever to cast a shadow in the Middle East, *"Since 1994* until the end of year 2017, the foreign aid given to *Palestine* reached the *amount* of USD *36.5* billion."





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I call it a political illusion that changes as your viewing angle rotates.  We want to See, Perceived, and Interact with a certain perspective.  It is a case of what you see is different from reality.
> 
> View attachment 310096​
> Although you see the shapes, you know that they cannot exist in reality.  The same type of political illusion exists when looking at the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why do you side with everyone who violates those rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one has violated Arab Palestinian Rights.  It is an illusion.
> 
> ◈  Where do you propose to initiate self-determination?
> ◈  Where are you going to establish your sovereign and independent state?
> ◈  What territory did the Arab Palestinian actually establish the sovereign and thus requires "integrity" protection?​
> How is that accomplished?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is in it for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Only a few Arab Palestinians can see the damage and the outcome the Arab Palestinian leadership has created.   It looks like someone took something away from them; but in reality, NOT.
> 
> View attachment 310097​I look at the contributions the Israelis made and compare it to what the Arab Palestinians have accomplished.
> 
> ◈  From the River to the sea:  28,166 sq km _(23% of the original territory under Mandate)_.
> ◈  Jewish State allocation: ≈ 56% or 15772.96 sq km
> ◈  Arab State Allocation:  ≈ 44% or  12393.04 sq km
> ✦ ∆ 3379.92 sq km or 1305 sq mi or slightly smaller than Euboea_ (in the Aegean Sea)_, the second largest Island of Greece. Its total area is 3,655 sq km.  If you trimmed a little here and there, and the tide was just right, you might be able to make it fit.
> Put in perspective, the size of Area A _(full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority)_ of the West Bank is ≈ 5,861 sq km or 2,263 sq mi.
> Since 29 Sept 2000, the Arab Palestinians attribute between 9560 death and 9935 deaths.  In perspective, that casualty figure is less than one-third the number of highway death in the US per year.​There is a perception here.  There is a perception that the Arab League truly supports the Arab-Palestinians.  And while the US is the worst country ever to cast a shadow in the Middle East, *"Since 1994* until the end of year 2017, the foreign aid given to *Palestine* reached the *amount* of USD *36.5* billion."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Huh!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I call it a political illusion that changes as your viewing angle rotates.  We want to See, Perceived, and Interact with a certain perspective.  It is a case of what you see is different from reality.
> 
> View attachment 310096​
> Although you see the shapes, you know that they cannot exist in reality.  The same type of political illusion exists when looking at the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why do you side with everyone who violates those rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one has violated Arab Palestinian Rights.  It is an illusion.
> 
> ◈  Where do you propose to initiate self-determination?
> ◈  Where are you going to establish your sovereign and independent state?
> ◈  What territory did the Arab Palestinian actually establish the sovereign and thus requires "integrity" protection?​
> How is that accomplished?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is in it for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Only a few Arab Palestinians can see the damage and the outcome the Arab Palestinian leadership has created.   It looks like someone took something away from them; but in reality, NOT.
> 
> View attachment 310097​I look at the contributions the Israelis made and compare it to what the Arab Palestinians have accomplished.
> 
> ◈  From the River to the sea:  28,166 sq km _(23% of the original territory under Mandate)_.
> ◈  Jewish State allocation: ≈ 56% or 15772.96 sq km
> ◈  Arab State Allocation:  ≈ 44% or  12393.04 sq km
> ✦ ∆ 3379.92 sq km or 1305 sq mi or slightly smaller than Euboea_ (in the Aegean Sea)_, the second largest Island of Greece. Its total area is 3,655 sq km.  If you trimmed a little here and there, and the tide was just right, you might be able to make it fit.
> Put in perspective, the size of Area A _(full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority)_ of the West Bank is ≈ 5,861 sq km or 2,263 sq mi.
> Since 29 Sept 2000, the Arab Palestinians attribute between 9560 death and 9935 deaths.  In perspective, that casualty figure is less than one-third the number of highway death in the US per year.​There is a perception here.  There is a perception that the Arab League truly supports the Arab-Palestinians.  And while the US is the worst country ever to cast a shadow in the Middle East, *"Since 1994* until the end of year 2017, the foreign aid given to *Palestine* reached the *amount* of USD *36.5* billion."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh!
Click to expand...


Masterful concision. 

I am in awe that you can post as you do absent any sense of embarrassment.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I call it a political illusion that changes as your viewing angle rotates.  We want to See, Perceived, and Interact with a certain perspective.  It is a case of what you see is different from reality.
> 
> View attachment 310096​
> Although you see the shapes, you know that they cannot exist in reality.  The same type of political illusion exists when looking at the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why do you side with everyone who violates those rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one has violated Arab Palestinian Rights.  It is an illusion.
> 
> ◈  Where do you propose to initiate self-determination?
> ◈  Where are you going to establish your sovereign and independent state?
> ◈  What territory did the Arab Palestinian actually establish the sovereign and thus requires "integrity" protection?​
> How is that accomplished?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is in it for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Only a few Arab Palestinians can see the damage and the outcome the Arab Palestinian leadership has created.   It looks like someone took something away from them; but in reality, NOT.
> 
> View attachment 310097​I look at the contributions the Israelis made and compare it to what the Arab Palestinians have accomplished.
> 
> ◈  From the River to the sea:  28,166 sq km _(23% of the original territory under Mandate)_.
> ◈  Jewish State allocation: ≈ 56% or 15772.96 sq km
> ◈  Arab State Allocation:  ≈ 44% or  12393.04 sq km
> ✦ ∆ 3379.92 sq km or 1305 sq mi or slightly smaller than Euboea_ (in the Aegean Sea)_, the second largest Island of Greece. Its total area is 3,655 sq km.  If you trimmed a little here and there, and the tide was just right, you might be able to make it fit.
> Put in perspective, the size of Area A _(full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority)_ of the West Bank is ≈ 5,861 sq km or 2,263 sq mi.
> Since 29 Sept 2000, the Arab Palestinians attribute between 9560 death and 9935 deaths.  In perspective, that casualty figure is less than one-third the number of highway death in the US per year.​There is a perception here.  There is a perception that the Arab League truly supports the Arab-Palestinians.  And while the US is the worst country ever to cast a shadow in the Middle East, *"Since 1994* until the end of year 2017, the foreign aid given to *Palestine* reached the *amount* of USD *36.5* billion."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Masterful concision.
> 
> I am in awe that you can post as you do absent any sense of embarrassment.
Click to expand...


What could be more ignorant then his postings that Hasidic Jews and Hamas believe in EXACTLY the same thing?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> I am in awe that you can post as you do absent any sense of embarrassment.



What could be more ignorant then his postings that Hasidic Jews and Hamas believe in EXACTLY the same thing?   [/QUOTE]
*(Comedic Banter)*

Well, I suppose that the HAMAS Leaders would be most easy to find in a crowd of Arab Palestinians.  "Hasidim believe that their dress proclaims that they are servants of God."




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The _*Friday Hate Fest *_that is so often a part of Pal'istanian Arab religious services was, as usual, on display with Sheikk Yousef “_you must hate the Jews” _Makharzah spreadin’ the word. ’ 



Jerusalem Friday Sermon by Sheikh Yousef Makharzah: It Is the Religious Obligation of Muslims to Bear Animosity against the Jews; Mahmoud Abbas Is Wrong to Say Otherwise


----------



## Hollie

Another tool in the defensive arsenal against islamic terrorists,


Innovative Light-Blade laser can cut down Hamas, Iranian attack drones

A laser-based defense system capable of taking out attack drones even in urban environments has been developed by Israeli experts, who hope to roll out the system for a range of security uses, including at airports. 

The system was developed by Prof. Amiel Ishaaya at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev after incendiary balloons started being launched into Israel in 2018, setting fire to farmland and causing widespread damage. Realizing that no one was looking into a way to prevent the balloons from posing a threat, Ishaaya, an expert on lasers, contacted industry experts. Together, they developed the Lahav-Or, or Light Blade defense system.


----------



## Hollie

There’s a good article in jpost addressing the falsehoods of the “free Pal’istan” slogan used by various Islamic hate groups. The false equivalency made between of South Africa and Islamic terrorist franchises hoping to destroy Israel should be quite clear.  



The bad faith behind ‘Free Palestine’

It is no accident that the word “free” is used in relation to “Palestine.” This is a clear – and historically inaccurate – reference to the Free South Africa Movement, which fought the apartheid system of South Africa in the 1970s and 1980s. “Free Palestine” leaders consciously tie their cause to actual apartheid as it existed in late 20th century South Africa. But the analogy is faulty from the start. Ending South African apartheid meant the end of the country’s nationalist government and the ushering in of majority rule by black Africans, the indigenous population. The Arab-Israeli conflict, by contrast, pits an Arab population that never had an independent nation of its own against the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel, which just happens to be the world’s only Jewish state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There’s a good article in jpost addressing the falsehoods of the “free Pal’istan” slogan used by various Islamic hate groups. The false equivalency made between of South Africa and Islamic terrorist franchises hoping to destroy Israel should be quite clear.
> 
> 
> 
> The bad faith behind ‘Free Palestine’
> 
> It is no accident that the word “free” is used in relation to “Palestine.” This is a clear – and historically inaccurate – reference to the Free South Africa Movement, which fought the apartheid system of South Africa in the 1970s and 1980s. “Free Palestine” leaders consciously tie their cause to actual apartheid as it existed in late 20th century South Africa. But the analogy is faulty from the start. Ending South African apartheid meant the end of the country’s nationalist government and the ushering in of majority rule by black Africans, the indigenous population. The Arab-Israeli conflict, by contrast, pits an Arab population that never had an independent nation of its own against the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel, which just happens to be the world’s only Jewish state.





Hollie said:


> The false equivalency made between of South Africa and Islamic terrorist franchises hoping to destroy Israel should be quite clear.


Nelson Mandela was called a terrorist by the apartheid state.

Must be an apartheid state thing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s a good article in jpost addressing the falsehoods of the “free Pal’istan” slogan used by various Islamic hate groups. The false equivalency made between of South Africa and Islamic terrorist franchises hoping to destroy Israel should be quite clear.
> 
> 
> 
> The bad faith behind ‘Free Palestine’
> 
> It is no accident that the word “free” is used in relation to “Palestine.” This is a clear – and historically inaccurate – reference to the Free South Africa Movement, which fought the apartheid system of South Africa in the 1970s and 1980s. “Free Palestine” leaders consciously tie their cause to actual apartheid as it existed in late 20th century South Africa. But the analogy is faulty from the start. Ending South African apartheid meant the end of the country’s nationalist government and the ushering in of majority rule by black Africans, the indigenous population. The Arab-Israeli conflict, by contrast, pits an Arab population that never had an independent nation of its own against the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel, which just happens to be the world’s only Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The false equivalency made between of South Africa and Islamic terrorist franchises hoping to destroy Israel should be quite clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nelson Mandela was called a terrorist by the apartheid state.
> 
> Must be an apartheid state thing.
Click to expand...


You ducked addressing my post.


----------



## Hollie

The politico-religious ideology that Mo' (swat) created was a reflection of 7th century Arab culture which was, and still is, a ruthless,  patriarchal, male dominated and controlled society



Patriarchy in Palestine

In late November, a 16-year-old girl called Yara Ayoub from the Galilee village of al-Jish went missing. A few days later, her mutilated body was found in a dumpster. Two suspects - a 28-year-old man and his father - were arrested on murder charges.

Thousands of Palestinians from the girl's village and the surrounding areas attended her funeral. The outpouring of grief was palpable and people marched in the funeral procession wearing stickers reading "Yara in our hearts".

Since news of the murder spread, many Palestinians across historical Palestine have been consumed by discussions on social media about violence against women and the harm inflicted by patriarchy. There have been demonstrations in Nazareth, Sakhneen, Haifa and Jaffa, all calling for an end to violence against women.


----------



## Sixties Fan

For the Columbia University professor, Palestinians are the Native Americans of the Middle East. He imagines “parallels” between “the resistance of Native Americans to their dispossession and that of the Palestinians.” But his futile search for parallels exposes the spurious nature of his claim.

(full article online)

Rashid Khalidi’s war on Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians launch truly insane, babbling lawsuit in DC against Netanyahu, Kushner, Trump, Adelson, AIPAC.... ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Because there has never been a better contemporary example than Jasbir Puar of the distortion of the academic mission to find and teach the truth since that great fraud, Edward Said. I say this even though there has been a Ward Churchill and a Steven Salaita. Unlike the latter two, she is an academic star. She is a full Professor, and Graduate Director of Women’s and Gender Studies at Rutgers University, where she has taught since 2000. She holds graduate degrees in Ethnic and Women’s studies, and has a massive list of publications (although most are in marginal journals), speaking engagements, fellowships, and other academic honors. She has had three books published by Duke University Press, which has a disturbing record of anti-Israel bias.

And despite her reality-distorting obsession, she is welcomed to speak at places like Scripps College. She continues to receive grants and fellowships (although some of them, like the “Palestinian American Research Council Fellowship” she got in 2018 may simply constitute payment for her political activity). She is a tenured member of the Rutgers faculty.

The fact is that the Western academic world – particularly the portion of it called “Ethnic and Gender Studies” –  is so thoroughly indoctrinated with misoziony that _it doesn’t see anything wrong_ with her ideas. What look to me like conspiratorial fantasies indicative of mental illness appear as perfectly normal academic discourse to them. This seems to be the case in most universities in the US, the UK and Canada – and to some extent, in certain institutions even in Israel.

(full article online)

Jasbir Puar and the Moral Failure of the Academy (Vic Rosenthal) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Why do I believe that it will fall to Israel to provide medical care and treatment for the Arabs-Moslems? 



Palestinian Authority confirms 7 cases of coronavirus


----------



## Hollie

I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
*


Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
*
Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020

*PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]


OK.

BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
Click to expand...


You sidestepped addressing my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sidestepped addressing my post.
Click to expand...

Hanan Ashrawi is correct.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sidestepped addressing my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi is correct.
Click to expand...


False.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sidestepped addressing my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False.
Click to expand...


It seems he only read the headline, but NOT the entire article that you posted.


----------



## Hollie

A case is made that Egypt is the root of all evil as it applies to Gaza being a stain on the planet. 

That only serves to shift accountability for the Islamic terrorist infrastructure, controlled by Islamic terrorist syndicates which continue to exploit resources donated by western nations. 




Who’s the Real Cause of Gaza’s Misery? Surprise: It’s Not Israel!

However, once again, facts prove these media and observers wrong: The principal source of Gaza’s isolation and desperation is, in fact, Egypt. Egypt has the largest Arab population in the world, ruled Gaza for two decades before the fateful “War of Extermination” against Israel in 1967, and totally controls the southern border of Gaza — containing the terrorist leadership of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the compliant Gazans in the 140-square-mile strip.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sidestepped addressing my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False.
Click to expand...

What's false?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sidestepped addressing my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's false?
Click to expand...


The incorrect part.


----------



## Hollie

Some recent technology developed by the Israelis to counter the islamic balloon gee-had.

Putting the _had_ in gee-had_._


Israel’s Powerful Laser Technology Can Destroy Explosive Balloons from Gaza

JERUSALEM, Israel – Earlier this year, Israel revealed that it is testing breakthrough laser technology to defend itself against drone and missile attacks.

A new system developed by researchers at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev is powerful enough to destroy explosive balloons but safe enough to use in urban areas and not blind nearby civilians.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Hanan Ashrawi was feeling a need to step up the stereotype of the raving, incoherent, Islamist politburo mouthpiece.
> *
> 
> 
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder"
> *
> Ashrawi attacks Israeli democracy: "Israeli political system, is based on murder" | PMW Analysis
> Itamar Marcus  | Mar 5, 2020
> 
> *PMW: It was the PA itself that destroyed the left wing in Israel *
> Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi is upset with Israeli democracy. The Palestinian leader is unhappy with the results of the election in which the right wing and religious parties achieved 58 seats, the center party 32 seats and the coalition of 3 left wing Zionist parties together only reaching 7 seats in Israel's 120 seat parliament. Ashrawi said this was "a clear expression of the expansion of the culture of hate, racism, and extremism in Israel." She added that "the election results have strengthened the distorted character of the Israeli political system, which is based on murder, escalation, settlements, annexation, and the theft of lands." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 3, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> BTW, Ashrawi is Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sidestepped addressing my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's false?
Click to expand...

Everything that comes out of its mouth...


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Some recent technology developed by the Israelis to counter the islamic balloon gee-had.
> 
> Putting the _had_ in gee-had_._
> 
> 
> Israel’s Powerful Laser Technology Can Destroy Explosive Balloons from Gaza
> 
> JERUSALEM, Israel – Earlier this year, Israel revealed that it is testing breakthrough laser technology to defend itself against drone and missile attacks.
> 
> A new system developed by researchers at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev is powerful enough to destroy explosive balloons but safe enough to use in urban areas and not blind nearby civilians.



Already tested against balloons strapped with grenades, drones...
Qatar is sending 50$M to Hamas every month or so, not realizing they're investing in system that is going to directly help Israel to use Hamas for essentially its own disarmament as a threat.

Hamas and Qatar also make sure, that these Israeli systems are introduced to its allies in the region where they're further tested in practice, against any of the system developments of the common enemy.

Then Hamas and their BDS-hole idiots, gonna get nuts discovering how attempting to strangle the country, they've actually increased its GDP, military strength, and further strengthen Israel's position as the regional leader.

But Hamas will keep fooling their people that their military campaign is "just about...almost already...on the verge of being successful" - and keep recruiting children labor to dig them tunnels for 5$ a day, while pocketing all their aid for mansions in Switzerland and Qatar.


----------



## Hollie

Any meeting between the angry tribes of Fatah and Hamas seems unlikely. The Gaza contingent of Islamic terrorists are banned from the territories or in hiding. The Fatah contingent is busy counting their welfare money. 




Hamas, Fatah trade blame for holdup on Gaza meeting

Read more: Hamas, Fatah trade blame for holdup on Gaza meeting

The PLO, which officially represents Palestinians on the world stage but does not include Hamas, had agreed to send a delegation including Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas and Fatah representatives to meet with Hamas in Gaza to discuss how to confront the US plan. Palestinians say the plan heavily favors Israel; the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the Arab League agree with that assessment.


----------



## Hollie

Not surprising that the UN would ignore Arabs-Moslems exploiting their children. It just speaks volumes about a culture that treats its younger generation as a disposable commodity. 


UN Agency Ignores Complaints on PA-Employed Child Soldiers







The United Nations’ International Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) has repeatedly ignored complaints submitted by the Israeli Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) over the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) use of child soldiers, in violation of international law. Photo by Majdi Fathi/TPS on 24 February, 2020


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority prime minister Dr. Muhammad Shtayeh too a tour on Saturday evening of a number of shops. He said, "The people's morale is high and there is no shortage of food supplies. Our people are great in giving and in a spirit of solidarity in crises."

At least one of the stores he visited had a product with Hebrew prominently displayed at checkout (see at left in photo.)





Palestinian PM shops at local grocery to assure people about Covid-19 - but the shop sells Israeli products ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian National Council issued a statement"recalling the role and contributions of Palestinian women to the Palestinian national struggle for liberation from occupation."

In a statement issued by its president, Salim Al-Zanoun, on the occasion of International Women's Day, the National Council "saluted the Palestinian women in the homeland and diaspora, especially the wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters of the martyrs, the prisoners, and the wounded, who were patient and endured, and who bore great responsibility after the loss of the breadwinner."

They also showed appreciation for "the steadfastness of the struggling female prisoners in the Israeli occupation prisons."

"At a time when the world celebrates women and their accomplishments in various aspects of life, Palestinian women still live in suffering, injustice, occupation, arrest and deprivation of their rights, and still feel the pain of losing a husband, son and brother, whether he is a martyr or a detainee," the statement said.

To the Palestinian leadership, women's jobs are to support their terrorist husbands and sons, except for the exceptional ones who perform terror attacks themselves. Otherwise, Palestinian women are not expected to be strong, independent women - not professors or doctors or programmers or politicians or peacemakers. They are defined by old men to be supporters of terror against Israel, and to be used as propaganda to play the part of passive victims of Israel's existence. To them, Palestinian women have no aspirations to go beyond that. Not a word about battling inequality, about women's rights, about the theme of helping women in the workplace.

Palestinian leaders show through their International Women's Day statement that Palestinian nationalism is defined by opposition to Israel rather than building a state and that women have no use except for being assistants for this goal of erasing Israel.



Palestinian leaders issue a misogynist and pro-terror statement for International Women's Day, celebrating "wives, mothers and daughters of martyrs and prisoners" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems are launching booby trapped balloons apparently with the intention to target IsraelI children. 

Lovely folks. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...069346-54d5-11ea-80ce-37a8d4266c09_story.html

In recent months, hundreds of booby-trapped balloons — sometimes bearing the messages “I Love You” and “Happy Birthday” along with small improvised explosives dangling by a string — have descended on this and other communities downwind of the nearby Gaza Strip, according to Israeli police.


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## Hollie

I’ll bet you didn’t know this. 
*


Corona virus "is one of Almighty Allah's soldiers... He is unleashing it on those who attack His believers," says preacher on official PA TV*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 9, 2020


----------



## Hollie

Abbas: Seeing Palestinian girls beat up Israeli troops fills my heart with joy


*Abbas: Seeing Palestinian girls beat up Israeli troops fills my heart with joy*
*Palestinian Authority chief says having women at the forefront of protests ‘is our way to vanquish our enemies’*
By TOI STAFFToday, 11:16 am  1
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said earlier this month that seeing Palestinian girls assault Israeli troops “fills [his] heart with joy





It's important for the Ummah's girls to find a role they can fill in the wondrous islamic social order.


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## Hollie

I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source. 
*



Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020






Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.


Women are under occupation too.

BTW, cool pic.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.
> 
> 
> 
> Women are under occupation too.
> 
> BTW, cool pic.
Click to expand...

How cruel to be under the occupation of islamic theocratic totalitarianism enforced by corrupt, Arab-Moslem men who view women as mere property.

BTW, why is the woman in the pic not in her Islamic Shame Sack?


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## Hollie

This was supposed to be a secret.


----------



## Hollie

I that the KSA is showing its displeasure with Hamas and those who are in bed with the Shia heretics in Iran.

The Sunni vs. Shia hate-fest that has burned brightly since the death of Islam's inventor has not dimmed in 1,400 years.



Dozens of Palestinians face 'terrorism court' in Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia has put dozens of Palestinian activists on trial, accusing them of supporting the Gaza-based rulers Hamas.

According to Arabic press reports, 68 Palestinian and Jordanian citizens faced the "special terrorism court" in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, beginning on Sunday.




The formerlly breathing Jamal Khashoggi found out what it means to be on the business end of a version of the Saudi "special terrorism court" .


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist propaganda machine / fake news conglomerate rolls on.
*


PA deceives Palestinians: Claims Israel fabricated terror attack, despite video
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 11, 2020




After a Palestinian terrorist recently tried to stab an Israeli Arab soldier at the Israeli checkpoint at the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, official Palestinian Authority TV repeated the libel that Israeli soldiers place knives on the ground to fake stabbing attacks. PA TV claimed this although the stabbing attack the day before was captured on video:


----------



## Sixties Fan

You probably have never heard the name Hussam Khader. But you should. Because what’s happening to him has extremely important ramifications for Israel and for Middle East peace.

Khader, 59, is a leader of Fatah (the main component of the PLO) and an elected member of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC). The council was established as part of the 1993 Oslo accords. Former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin understood that transforming Palestinian Arab society from authoritarianism to democracy was one of the most crucial ingredients for a durable and meaningful peace. So Israel insisted that the Oslo agreement include the establishment of a number of democratic agencies and mechanisms, including a democratically elected legislative council.

------
Which brings us back to Palestinian Arab legislator Hussam Khader. Last week, members of the P.A.’s official Preventive Security Services burst into Khader’s home in Nablus (Shechem) in the middle of the night and dragged him off to prison. His crime? He posted a comment on Facebook in which he criticized P.A. chief Mahmoud Abbas for having said that striking Palestinian physicians who are seeking a salary increase are “despicable.”

I have no sympathy for Hussam Khader. He is a veteran terrorist who has served time in Israeli prisons. But his arrest tells us a lot about the nature of the Palestinian Authority.

Crushing strikers and arresting dissidents, including members of the Legislative Council, has become routine under Abbas. And it’s just the tip of the iceberg. Critics of the regime are routinely tortured. Unions are intimidated. Women are treated as second-class citizens. Abbas’s “Cyber Crime Law” mandates prison sentences and fines for anyone who establishes a website that might “undermine the safety of the state or its internal or external security.”

(full article online)

Why the arrest of this Palestinian matters


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PLO's representative to Greece, Marwan Tobasi, went on an antisemitic rant at a meeting with "peace" groups in that country.

There was seemingly no objection from these "peace" groups when Tobasi said that there was a "Zionist Holocaust" that Israel has waged against the Palestinian people for seven decades.

Echoing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Tobasi claimed that the Zionist strategy in the Middle east and throughout the world is to provoke conflicts and wars that will allow Israel to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates.  He said that the Zionist movement sought from its inception to expel the Palestinian people from its land to replace them with Jews.

(full article online)

PLO envoy to Greece says Jews aren't a people, Zionism is racism ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

I think the latest Hudna will be ending soon. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are going to want some dead Sunni Palestinians as the return for Shia welfare dollars. 



Palestinian Islamists disrupt an attempted truce in Gaza






© Getty Images
While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections, Hamas, with a strategic interest in pausing the fighting, also sought quiet to improve living standards in Gaza. But the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) torpedoed this attempt. The escalation that erupted between the PIJ and Israel in February is characteristic of the PIJ’s recent efforts to disrupt calm in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I think the latest Hudna will be ending soon. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are going to want some dead Sunni Palestinians as the return for Shia welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamists disrupt an attempted truce in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections, Hamas, with a strategic interest in pausing the fighting, also sought quiet to improve living standards in Gaza. But the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) torpedoed this attempt. The escalation that erupted between the PIJ and Israel in February is characteristic of the PIJ’s recent efforts to disrupt calm in Gaza.





Hollie said:


> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections,


Israel's version of quiet is keeping the siege.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the latest Hudna will be ending soon. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are going to want some dead Sunni Palestinians as the return for Shia welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamists disrupt an attempted truce in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections, Hamas, with a strategic interest in pausing the fighting, also sought quiet to improve living standards in Gaza. But the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) torpedoed this attempt. The escalation that erupted between the PIJ and Israel in February is characteristic of the PIJ’s recent efforts to disrupt calm in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the siege.
Click to expand...


Maybe you’re right Tinmore..... let Israel end the siege so that Palestinians can roam free and kill more Israelis even easier, right ??


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the latest Hudna will be ending soon. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are going to want some dead Sunni Palestinians as the return for Shia welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamists disrupt an attempted truce in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections, Hamas, with a strategic interest in pausing the fighting, also sought quiet to improve living standards in Gaza. But the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) torpedoed this attempt. The escalation that erupted between the PIJ and Israel in February is characteristic of the PIJ’s recent efforts to disrupt calm in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the siege.
Click to expand...


What siege? You’re having the usual problems with making a coherent comment.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.
> 
> 
> 
> Women are under occupation too.
> 
> BTW, cool pic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel to be under the occupation of islamic theocratic totalitarianism enforced by corrupt, Arab-Moslem men who view women as mere property.
> 
> BTW, why is the woman in the pic not in her Islamic Shame Sack?
Click to expand...

Palestine does not have dress codes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.
> 
> 
> 
> Women are under occupation too.
> 
> BTW, cool pic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel to be under the occupation of islamic theocratic totalitarianism enforced by corrupt, Arab-Moslem men who view women as mere property.
> 
> BTW, why is the woman in the pic not in her Islamic Shame Sack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have dress codes.
Click to expand...


Except for the dress codes.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems can’t escape Zio-Powers. They are powerless at the hand of the _The Zionists_™️


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.
> 
> 
> 
> Women are under occupation too.
> 
> BTW, cool pic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel to be under the occupation of islamic theocratic totalitarianism enforced by corrupt, Arab-Moslem men who view women as mere property.
> 
> BTW, why is the woman in the pic not in her Islamic Shame Sack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have dress codes.
Click to expand...

Palestine?

No such place exists.


----------



## Hollie

*Saudi Writers: Why Should Saudi Arabia Pay the Price for the Mistakes of the Palestinians?*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the latest Hudna will be ending soon. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are going to want some dead Sunni Palestinians as the return for Shia welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamists disrupt an attempted truce in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections, Hamas, with a strategic interest in pausing the fighting, also sought quiet to improve living standards in Gaza. But the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) torpedoed this attempt. The escalation that erupted between the PIJ and Israel in February is characteristic of the PIJ’s recent efforts to disrupt calm in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the siege.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What siege? You’re having the usual problems with making a coherent comment.
Click to expand...


I think he means the blockade.


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the latest Hudna will be ending soon. The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are going to want some dead Sunni Palestinians as the return for Shia welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamists disrupt an attempted truce in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections, Hamas, with a strategic interest in pausing the fighting, also sought quiet to improve living standards in Gaza. But the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) torpedoed this attempt. The escalation that erupted between the PIJ and Israel in February is characteristic of the PIJ’s recent efforts to disrupt calm in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel attempted to achieve quiet in the lead-up to the March 2 elections,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the siege.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What siege? You’re having the usual problems with making a coherent comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think he means the blockade.
Click to expand...


I think his issue is with both Israel and Egypt who have an interest in protecting their citizens. I suspect P F Tinmore would welcome an opportunity for Iran to further arm their proxy armies of Hamas and PIJ but further attacks aimed at Israel and Egypt could lead to a much wider and prolonged response to islamic terrorist acts of war.


----------



## Hollie

You're on your own, ladies. Maybe consider some plate armour reinforcement for your islamic protective outerwear. 
*

International Women's Day - The PA doesn't protect Palestinian women against violence; Top PA official: We are only committed to the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women when it is "consistent with Islamic law"

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 8, 2020


*
On the occasion of International Women’s Day, the official Palestinian Authority daily published various statistics on violence against women in the PA.


----------



## Hollie

"Playing to the audience" is an old tactic of fhe Islamists. One of the methods is to employ _taqiyya (_lying for sake of religion_). 




_
PA deceit: Moderation in English and extremism in Arabic   | PMW Analysis
*PA deceit: Moderation in English and extremism in Arabic*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 12, 2020

*In English, Israel is "Israel" but in Arabic it is "the 1948 territories"*

The PA’s official news agency WAFA is a clear illustration of the PA’s duplicity, which Palestinian Media Watch has exposed for over two decades.

In English – for foreign consumption - WAFA tries to present a moderate image and refers to Israel by name - simply "Israel." But in Arabic, to its own people and the Arabic speaking world, the official PA news agency refuses to recognize Israel and instead of using the name "Israel," calls it "the 1948 territories." 

The expression "the 1948 territories" is part of a longer PA expression, which is "the territories occupied by Israel in 1948." According to PA ideology, all of Israel is said to be an illegitimate “occupation” with no right to exist - some areas occupied since 1948 and the rest since 1967.


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had is all fun and games until you’re hauled into a sharia court.

I find it interesting that the accused are complaining about not having representation by an attorney. Where is the right to counsel identified in Islamic sharia?

Tough luck, I guess. When you’re in the belly of the Sunni /Salafi beast and viewed as aligning with Shia heretics, Islamic Sharia is not your friend. 


*https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-members-denied-access-lawyers-saudi-terrorism-court*

Palestinian group denounces prosecutions as 'unjust,' after 68 people are denied access to attorneys during mass trials


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’d have thought that putting an end to “honor” killing the Ummah’s girls would be a more productive way for Islamists to offer some respect for women. Much like children as a disposable commodity for the gee-had, women too are an exploitable source.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah glorifies Palestinian women fighters - On International Women's Day
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik   | Mar 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrating International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted the image above of a Palestinian woman holding up a rifle. The image, as many others posted by Fatah before it and exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, promotes and endorses violence and terror.
> 
> 
> 
> Women are under occupation too.
> 
> BTW, cool pic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How cruel to be under the occupation of islamic theocratic totalitarianism enforced by corrupt, Arab-Moslem men who view women as mere property.
> 
> BTW, why is the woman in the pic not in her Islamic Shame Sack?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have dress codes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine?
> 
> No such place exists.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> "Playing to the audience" is an old tactic of fhe Islamists. One of the methods is to employ _taqiyya (_lying for sake of religion_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> PA deceit: Moderation in English and extremism in Arabic   | PMW Analysis
> *PA deceit: Moderation in English and extremism in Arabic*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 12, 2020
> 
> *In English, Israel is "Israel" but in Arabic it is "the 1948 territories"*
> 
> The PA’s official news agency WAFA is a clear illustration of the PA’s duplicity, which Palestinian Media Watch has exposed for over two decades.
> 
> In English – for foreign consumption - WAFA tries to present a moderate image and refers to Israel by name - simply "Israel." But in Arabic, to its own people and the Arabic speaking world, the official PA news agency refuses to recognize Israel and instead of using the name "Israel," calls it "the 1948 territories."
> 
> The expression "the 1948 territories" is part of a longer PA expression, which is "the territories occupied by Israel in 1948." According to PA ideology, all of Israel is said to be an illegitimate “occupation” with no right to exist - some areas occupied since 1948 and the rest since 1967.





Hollie said:


> The expression "the 1948 territories" is part of a longer PA expression, which is "the territories occupied by Israel in 1948." According to PA ideology, all of Israel is said to be an illegitimate “occupation” with no right to exist - some areas occupied since 1948 and the rest since 1967.


It is true that whenever the Palestinians talk about Israel they call it 48.

What makes this incorrect?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Playing to the audience" is an old tactic of fhe Islamists. One of the methods is to employ _taqiyya (_lying for sake of religion_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> PA deceit: Moderation in English and extremism in Arabic   | PMW Analysis
> *PA deceit: Moderation in English and extremism in Arabic*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 12, 2020
> 
> *In English, Israel is "Israel" but in Arabic it is "the 1948 territories"*
> 
> The PA’s official news agency WAFA is a clear illustration of the PA’s duplicity, which Palestinian Media Watch has exposed for over two decades.
> 
> In English – for foreign consumption - WAFA tries to present a moderate image and refers to Israel by name - simply "Israel." But in Arabic, to its own people and the Arabic speaking world, the official PA news agency refuses to recognize Israel and instead of using the name "Israel," calls it "the 1948 territories."
> 
> The expression "the 1948 territories" is part of a longer PA expression, which is "the territories occupied by Israel in 1948." According to PA ideology, all of Israel is said to be an illegitimate “occupation” with no right to exist - some areas occupied since 1948 and the rest since 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The expression "the 1948 territories" is part of a longer PA expression, which is "the territories occupied by Israel in 1948." According to PA ideology, all of Israel is said to be an illegitimate “occupation” with no right to exist - some areas occupied since 1948 and the rest since 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that whenever the Palestinians talk about Israel they call it 48.
> 
> What makes this incorrect?
Click to expand...


Who are these “Pal’istanians” you refer to?


----------



## Hollie

It’s difficult to imagine how damaging this is to the young Islamic Death Cultist. Here you are celebrating an Islamic mass murderer and someone used the wrong picture on a banner. 

_*Oh, the children!*_




*Palestinian Textbooks Still Celebrate Terrorists*

Palestinian Textbooks Still Celebrate Terrorists





There was a small kerfuffle this weekend as stories came out that the official Palestinian fifth grade textbook for teaching the Arabic language mentioned how great Dalal Mughrabi was — but used the wrong photo of her.


----------



## Hollie

Another demonstration of the sickness that drives the Islamic terrorist mindset.

Celebrating an Islamic mass murderer. 
*



Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day*


Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day

The national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is drawing criticism after honoring female Palestinian terrorists on social media on Sunday.

One tweet — part of a series intended to celebrate Palestinian women for International Women’s Day — featured a picture of Leila Khaled smiling and holding an AK-47 assault rifle.


----------



## Hollie

'Bears for Palestine'. 

More appropriately, “The Mentally Defective Celebrating The Mentally Defective”



*'Bears for Palestine' Celebrates Terrorists at UC Berkeley*

*'Bears for Palestine' Celebrates Terrorists at UC Berkeley*

_Algemeiner_, a website for Jewish and Israel news, reports that a group at the University of California, Berkeley, called Bears for Palestine, “us[ed] its dedicated cubicle space to display photos” of Palestinian terrorists—namely Fatima Bernawi, Rasmea Odeh, and Leila Khaled, “the latter seen wielding an AK-47 assault rifle.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Another demonstration of the sickness that drives the Islamic terrorist mindset.
> 
> Celebrating an Islamic mass murderer.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day*
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day
> 
> The national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is drawing criticism after honoring female Palestinian terrorists on social media on Sunday.
> 
> One tweet — part of a series intended to celebrate Palestinian women for International Women’s Day — featured a picture of Leila Khaled smiling and holding an AK-47 assault rifle.


Cool pic.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another demonstration of the sickness that drives the Islamic terrorist mindset.
> 
> Celebrating an Islamic mass murderer.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day*
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day
> 
> The national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is drawing criticism after honoring female Palestinian terrorists on social media on Sunday.
> 
> One tweet — part of a series intended to celebrate Palestinian women for International Women’s Day — featured a picture of Leila Khaled smiling and holding an AK-47 assault rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool pic.
Click to expand...


How nice you celebrate the worst elements of psychopathy brought on by theocratic totalitarianism. 

Flail your Pom Poms for mental disease.


----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorists are making appeals to formally conquered / islamist occupied land as an Islamist waqf.

The islamic concept of waqf derives from the inventor of Islam who, while claiming to hear voices from an angel, understood the idea that self-aggrandizing was a valuable propaganda tool for Arab warlord.  

*PA: Jewish history in Jerusalem is "fables and myths" and "imaginary history"
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 13, 2020.

PA: Jewish history in Jerusalem is "fables and myths" and "imaginary history" | PMW Analysis
*


*

Israel is looking for "proof of the alleged Temple," invents "imaginary history… in Jerusalem"


"The land of Palestine is an Islamic waqf (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law) and no one... would relinquish a grain of its soil"


PA: Jews "defile the Al-Aqsa Mosque" (i.e., the Temple Mount)
*
*



Jews visiting the Temple
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 13, 2020

*Israel is looking for "proof of the alleged Temple," invents "imaginary history… in Jerusalem"*

*"The land of Palestine is an Islamic waqf (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law) and no one... would relinquish a grain of its soil"*

*PA: Jews "defile the Al-Aqsa Mosque" (i.e., the Temple Mount)*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another demonstration of the sickness that drives the Islamic terrorist mindset.
> 
> Celebrating an Islamic mass murderer.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day*
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day
> 
> The national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is drawing criticism after honoring female Palestinian terrorists on social media on Sunday.
> 
> One tweet — part of a series intended to celebrate Palestinian women for International Women’s Day — featured a picture of Leila Khaled smiling and holding an AK-47 assault rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool pic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How nice you celebrate the worst elements of psychopathy brought on by theocratic totalitarianism.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for mental disease.
Click to expand...

Leila Khaled never killed anybody.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another demonstration of the sickness that drives the Islamic terrorist mindset.
> 
> Celebrating an Islamic mass murderer.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day*
> 
> 
> Anti-Zionist US Student Group Honors Female Palestinian Terrorists to Celebrate International Women’s Day
> 
> The national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is drawing criticism after honoring female Palestinian terrorists on social media on Sunday.
> 
> One tweet — part of a series intended to celebrate Palestinian women for International Women’s Day — featured a picture of Leila Khaled smiling and holding an AK-47 assault rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool pic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How nice you celebrate the worst elements of psychopathy brought on by theocratic totalitarianism.
> 
> Flail your Pom Poms for mental disease.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Leila Khaled never killed anybody.
Click to expand...


Neither did Charles Manson.

Flail your Pom Poms for the mental disease that afflicts your heroes.


----------



## Hollie

More of those afflicted by the debilitating disease of Pal-Arab Syndrome


----------



## Hollie

Just making sure Yahya Sinwar understands the “whack a mole Islamic Terrorist game. 




Gaza terrorist groups on high alert amid fears of Israeli attack - report

Terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip are on high alert amid fears that the current calm could deteriorate, reported Al-Araby Al-Jadeed (The New Arab) on Friday.

Checkpoints have been set up throughout the Strip where security forces are inspecting passing cars in measures that have only been used twice in Gaza: once after the head of Hamas's Al-Qassam Brigades was assassinated and again after the failed Khan Yunis operation.


----------



## eagle1462010

Hollie said:


> More of those afflicted by the debilitating disease of Pal-Arab Syndrome


Islam...............where Brain Cells go to die.


----------



## Hollie

What's an Iranian sponsored islamic terrorist franchise to do?

Hamas is in quite a predicament. If they dont follow orders from their Iranian masters to join the  gee-had against Israel, they risk losing their 
welfare checks. If they allow PIJ to become the predominant force in Gaza, they risk losing relevance, influence and even more credibility.




Why wasn't Hamas part of the recent confrontation round?

ARTICLE SUMMARY
While Hamas stayed away from the confrontation rounds against Israel, some observers believe that Hamas is not preventing the factions from getting involved in these confrontations out of fear of losing Iranian funding and because it refuses to engage in a conflict against the faction


----------



## Hollie

In today’s episode of “_Mr. Mufti Says_”, we learn that Arabs-Moslems who support the peace plan are “cursed by Allah, his angels and all people.”

“_I’ll get you my pretty, and your little dog, too”_
*




Grand Mufti bans Palestinians from supporting peace plan

https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Grand-Mufti-issues-decree-banning-Palestinians-from-supporting-peace-plan-617639
*
By DONNA RACHEL EDMUNDS 
FEBRUARY 15, 2020 15:12




Jerusalem Mufti Muhammad Hussein 311
(photo credit: REUTERS/Ammar Awad)
*Anyone who gives their support to Trump's peace plan deserves to be "cursed by Allah, his angels and all people," the Grand Mufti said.*


----------



## Hollie

There was an anniversary celebration (of sorts), marked by the those with a specific “religion” and afflicted with a mental disorder. 

Yes, the wanton, calculated mass slaughter that included children as victims was a cause for marking / celebrating an anniversary for a psychopath.
*


Ignoring Corona and Israel health care aid, PA praises murderer of 37 Israelis*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 15, 2020






March 11, 2020, marked the 42nd anniversary of the most lethal terror attack against Israel, when Palestinian terrorists hijacked a bus and murdered 37 Israelis, among them 12 children, in 1978.


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## Hollie

Memri has another clip of an Arab-Moslem "activist" who seems to think that mass murder / suicide attacks aimed at Israelis is something the Arabs-Moslems should return to. 

Just another day in that little slice of degeneracy sometimes called the Palestinian territories. 










Clip #7877 | March 16, 2020
*Palestinian Activist Yaser Mazhar Calls on Palestinians to Carry out Suicide Bombings in Israel: We Long for Bus Bombings*


----------



## Hollie

Memri TV has another slice of the Death Cult life from the location where mental disorders are a breeding priority.





Mar 13, 2020

Hamas TV Animation Depicts Terrorist Attack in an Israeli Shopping Mall


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems do tend to launch themselves into some rather frantic tirades. What follows is one that seems to ignore that it is the Arabs-Moslems, with financing and ideological backing from Iran who are preaching destruction of Israel. 

And then there's that Hamas Charter, thing. 

*
Abbas' Pres. Guard: Israelis crave "blood and destruction" | PMW Analysis*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 16, 2020
*"The Israeli street craves more blood and destruction"
- statement by Abbas’ PA Presidential Guards before Israeli elections*

Before the elections earlier this month in Israel, Abbas’ Presidential Guards published a statement demonizing Israelis as a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There was an anniversary celebration (of sorts), marked by the those with a specific “religion” and afflicted with a mental disorder.
> 
> Yes, the wanton, calculated mass slaughter that included children as victims was a cause for marking / celebrating an anniversary for a psychopath.
> *
> 
> 
> Ignoring Corona and Israel health care aid, PA praises murderer of 37 Israelis*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 15, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> March 11, 2020, marked the 42nd anniversary of the most lethal terror attack against Israel, when Palestinian terrorists hijacked a bus and murdered 37 Israelis, among them 12 children, in 1978.


That is half of the story.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was an anniversary celebration (of sorts), marked by the those with a specific “religion” and afflicted with a mental disorder.
> 
> Yes, the wanton, calculated mass slaughter that included children as victims was a cause for marking / celebrating an anniversary for a psychopath.
> *
> 
> 
> Ignoring Corona and Israel health care aid, PA praises murderer of 37 Israelis*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 15, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> March 11, 2020, marked the 42nd anniversary of the most lethal terror attack against Israel, when Palestinian terrorists hijacked a bus and murdered 37 Israelis, among them 12 children, in 1978.
> 
> 
> 
> That is half of the story.
Click to expand...


You’re less than half right.


----------



## Hollie

I’ve always had a very different approach to music/ poetry that is soothing and contemplative. Quite different than the tagged & bagged woman here who suffers from various psycho-social ailments.

_"Blessed Are Your Wedding Garments, Which Were Scattered with the Shreds of Your Body"_

Lovely! I hadn’t realized till now that a bright orange flash and an explosion followed by red hot shrapnel flying through the air at high speed tearing apart flesh and bones was “poetic”. 

I find these people to be rally vile. 


*
Gazan Poet Rihab Kanaan Honors Female Terrorists, Suicide Bombers on International Women's Day, Recites Poem: "Blessed Are Your Wedding Garments, Which Were Scattered with the Shreds of Your Body"*


----------



## Hollie

“He said that the Palestinians in Palestine act as if they are “mentally inhibited”


----------



## Hollie

Likely not the poetry most of us read or grew up with. But then, most of us didn't grow up in a Death Cult.
*


Poem read in the name of Abbas calls for violence and Martyrdom*
Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 19, 2020
*



At a Fatah rally in Nablus in January, Nablus District Governor Ibrahim Ramadan read “the words of his honor the President Mahmoud Abbas,” which included a poem calling on Palestinians to take up arms and die as Martyrs: 

*


----------



## Hollie

When the pompous Islamic terrorists start swaggering like drunken teenagers, it’s OK to point and laugh. 
*




Unrepentant released spy: We will "liberate" all of Palestine from "the Zionist enemy"
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 20, 2020






Released spy praises terrorist murderers as “heroes” and “torch that lit the path”
Released terrorist who transported suicide bomber: “We… will leave the prisons and return to the struggle until the liberation of Palestine”


----------



## Hollie

Harvard Invests Almost $200 Million in Companies UN List Tied to Israeli Settlements in Palestine | News | The Harvard Crimson








✔️


----------



## Hollie

Allah is running a “double rewards” promotion, in case you didn’t know.

He said that a martyr killed by the Jews receives twice the reward of one who was killed by other infidels

That sounds pretty, you know, *racist*™️ toward infidels.


----------



## Hollie

Too bad Islamic terrorists care so little for those they put in harms way.


----------



## Hollie

They missed out on allah’s “ double rewards” promotion.


----------



## Hollie

*Fake news in real time: Palestinian reporter demonizes Israeli soldier seconds after soldier protected him and other journalists
*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 18, 2020




Question: How long does it take a Palestinian Authority TV reporter to rewrite history and deceive Palestinians into hating Israelis?

Answer: 10 seconds.

This is a classic example of how the Palestinian Authority lies to its own people to demonize Israelis and create hatred of them among Palestinians.

At a Palestinian protest against US President Trump’s Middle East peace plan, an Israeli officer instructed Palestinian journalists to move to the other side of the road to be safe from oncoming cars.


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> When the pompous Islamic terrorists start swaggering like drunken teenagers, it’s OK to point and laugh.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unrepentant released spy: We will "liberate" all of Palestine from "the Zionist enemy"
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 20, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Released spy praises terrorist murderers as “heroes” and “torch that lit the path”
> Released terrorist who transported suicide bomber: “We… will leave the prisons and return to the struggle until the liberation of Palestine”



I wonder why Tinmore doesn’t respond to these posts....


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas mouthpiece (Haniyeh), doesn’t seem to understand that the KSA is choosing sides (Israel on one side), and Hamas along with PIJ on the other side. The Saudi’s have a clear interest in aligning with Israel as the Iranian Mullocrats look to expand the Shia Crescent in Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq and Syria. 










						Arabic press review: Hamas demands release of Palestinians from Saudi prisons
					

Meanwhile, a Kuwaiti is jailed for tweeting about coronavirus, a leaked letter from a Damascus prison claims many prisoners have the virus and Egyptian prisoners plead for their release




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




At least 68 Palestinians are being held in four prisons across Saudi Arabia on charges of having ties with Palestinian resistance group Hamas.

Until recently, Hamas had diplomatic representation in the kingdom, but Saudi-Palestinian relations have become tense in the past few years as Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is believed to be seeking a normalisation of relations with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Not sure why anyone would be surprised at the PA bumbling and stumbling over themselves. 












						PA Corona update: Israel criticized for closing mosque, while Hamas criticized for not closing mosques, on same page in official PA daily | PMW Analysis
					

Two days after the Waqf criticized Israel, the Waqf agreed to close the Al-Aqsa Mosque




					palwatch.org
				




*PA Corona update: Israel criticized for closing mosque, while Hamas criticized for not closing mosques, on same page in official PA daily*


----------



## Hollie

The poor, oppressed people of Gaza are suffering under the _Apartheid policies_™️of the PA. 










						Hamas urges Abbas to lift sanctions to help fight the coronavirus in Gaza
					

The appeal came in the aftermath of the discovery of the first two cases of coronavirus in the Gaza Strip on Sunday.




					m.jpost.com
				




Hamas has called on Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to lift the sanctions he imposed on the Gaza Strip to enable the Palestinians living there to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

The appeal came in the aftermath of the discovery of the first two cases of coronavirus in the Gaza Strip on Sunday.


----------



## Hollie

I guess this is one more way to try and ensure your welfare payments keep coming. 










						Hamas Wields Coronavirus to Extort More Money - Israel Today
					

Terror group threatens to increase spread of coronavirus in Israel if Arab countries don't send more money, supplies to Gaza.




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




Over the weekend, senior Hamas officials notified Egypt and Qatar that they would dramatically increase the number of Israelis infected with COVID-19 if those two Arab states failed to continue to financially support the terror group during the current global crisis.

That according to Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar, which has ties to Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

Interesting to note that Egypt banning Haniyeh from Gaza and Sinwar cowering in hiding, the border gee-had has all but ended.


----------



## Hollie

Curious that the Islamic terrorists who are quick to send disposable Arabs-Moslems to the border gee-had are the first to skedaddle when the Israeli resistance fighters get serious about protecting their citizens.










						Gaza Sources: Hamas Leader Sinwar in Hiding - Hamodia.com
					

Hamas terror leader Yahya Sinwar has not been seen in public in recent weeks – and that is because he is in hiding, Channel 12 quoted Gaza sources as




					hamodia.com
				




Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 5:14 am

Hamas terror leader Yahya Sinwar has not been seen in public in recent weeks – and that is because he is in hiding, Channel 12 quoted Gaza sources as saying Tuesday. “Ever since the elimination of [top Islamic Jihad terrorist] Abu-Alata, Sinwar has not been seen,” the sources said. “He doesn’t make speeches, doesn’t attend rallies, he has disappeared. Rumors are that he is in a bunker, fearing that Israel may target him too.”


----------



## Hollie

Some of the sharpest minds the Arabs-Moslems can muster were busy planning the destruction of Israel. 

The gee-had wannabes roll on. 



*Despite Corona crisis: PA's 1967 borders proposal is part of stages plan to replace Israel, indicates Fatah official*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 24, 2020






Top Fatah official Tawfiq Tirawi hasn’t let the Corona crisis affect his policy of denying Israel's right to exist and promote the notion that all of Israel is “Palestine,” or in his words: “Palestine is all of Palestine.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Some of the sharpest minds the Arabs-Moslems can muster were busy planning the destruction of Israel.
> 
> The gee-had wannabes roll on.
> 
> 
> 
> *Despite Corona crisis: PA's 1967 borders proposal is part of stages plan to replace Israel, indicates Fatah official*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 24, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top Fatah official Tawfiq Tirawi hasn’t let the Corona crisis affect his policy of denying Israel's right to exist and promote the notion that all of Israel is “Palestine,” or in his words: “Palestine is all of Palestine.”





Hollie said:


> “Palestine is all of Palestine.”


Hmmm, interesting concept.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the sharpest minds the Arabs-Moslems can muster were busy planning the destruction of Israel.
> 
> The gee-had wannabes roll on.
> 
> 
> 
> *Despite Corona crisis: PA's 1967 borders proposal is part of stages plan to replace Israel, indicates Fatah official*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 24, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top Fatah official Tawfiq Tirawi hasn’t let the Corona crisis affect his policy of denying Israel's right to exist and promote the notion that all of Israel is “Palestine,” or in his words: “Palestine is all of Palestine.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestine is all of Palestine.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm, interesting concept.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, islamist talking point. Not interesting.


----------



## Hollie

Such are the wages of gee-had. 










						Palestinian killed by IDF fire after throwing stones
					

Coronavirus crisis sees drop in attacks and unprecedented cooperation between IDF and Palestinian Authority forces.




					m.jpost.com
				




*Palestinian killed by IDF fire after throwing stones*
By ANNA AHRONHEIM, TZVI JOFFRE 
MARCH 23, 2020 20:10





Israeli car hit by stones thrown by Palestinians, March 23, 2020
(photo credit: IDF SPOKESMAN’S UNIT)


----------



## Hollie

We seem to be on the horns of a dilemma, here. Neither Qatar nor Iran have been falling over themselves to shower welfare money on the bottomless pit of want and incompetence, sometimes called Pal-Arabs. 









						Palestinians fear ‘economic disaster’ due to coronavirus restrictions
					

The state of emergency announced in the PA-controlled territories in the past few weeks has had a negative impact on a large number of Palestinian families.




					m.jpost.com


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> Such are the wages of gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian killed by IDF fire after throwing stones
> 
> 
> Coronavirus crisis sees drop in attacks and unprecedented cooperation between IDF and Palestinian Authority forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian killed by IDF fire after throwing stones*
> By ANNA AHRONHEIM, TZVI JOFFRE
> MARCH 23, 2020 20:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli car hit by stones thrown by Palestinians, March 23, 2020
> (photo credit: IDF SPOKESMAN’S UNIT)


I went to camp with the writer of that article lol. She’s from my hometown of Montreal


----------



## Hollie

Hamas Complains of Health System's Imminent Collapse: Then Rejects Israeli Aid
					

But shortages in Gazan hospitals doesn't seem to faze the Hamas government as they rejected medical aid that was offered by the Jewish state.




					www.breakingisraelnews.com
				





(Below is from the linked article)

_He shall be a wild ass of a man; His hand against everyone, And everyone’s hand against him; He shall dwell alongside of all his kinsmen._” Genesis 16:12 (The Israel Bible™)


----------



## Hollie

Allah seems to have little patience with these folks.


----------



## Hollie

It will be interesting to see the Saudi decision on the disposition of Hamas / Fatah prisoners being held. 

While I don’t see the KSA holding public beheadings of the Pal terrorists, the Kingdom will lose credibility in the Sunni world if the Pal terrorists are set free. 












						Hamas in talks with Saudi Arabia to release Palestinian prisoners
					

Hamas representatives are in talks with officials from Saudi Arabia over the release of Palestinians held by Riyadh on 'terror' charges, Anadolu news agency has reported.    Leading Hamas official Dr ...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




Leading Hamas official Dr Basem Naim spoke to the agency about the talks and said that he expects to see the fate of the prisoners decided before the start of the month of Ramadan, which will be towards the end of April. According to Naim, who is the Head of the Council on International Relations and a former Minister of Health in Gaza, 62 Palestinians are facing charges in the Kingdom for “supporting terrorist groups”.


----------



## Hollie

Peaceful protests.


----------



## Hollie

Life in the Arab-Moslem abyss


----------



## Hollie

Every morning is a new fight for Palestinians, so they just have to remind themselves that Iranian welfare money comes with conditions.







Like
Report


----------



## Hollie

I can’t say I’m surprised that the Islamic terrorists will want to blame The Jews™️ for their failures.


*Hamas seeks to prevent spread of virus in Gaza, while threatening to hold Israel responsible if it fails*









						Hamas seeks to prevent spread of virus in Gaza, while threatening to hold Israel responsible if it fails
					

The way the terrorist organization usually demands help is by threatening to fire rockets at Israeli cities near its border. If its subpar health-care system is put to the test, it may lash out.




					www.jns.org
				




The way the terrorist organization usually demands help is by threatening to fire rockets at Israeli cities near its border. If its subpar health-care system is put to the test, it may lash out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Just my opinion......I am not enjoying this new forum design   ]



> Conclusions: the man using crutches appears to be pretending to use the crutches or he has just recently gotten them and no one has bothered to fit them to him. It is possible the image distorts his posture but his feet are not that far back from the forward position of the crutches. It is possible this is a healthy man posing with crutches.


This all rings true. The man is putting virtually all his weight on his supposedly injured legs.

If Baitulmaal is faking photos of its own accomplishments in Gaza, it is probably lying about many other things.

(full article online)









						Pallywood from Linda Sarsour's charity
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

51% answered “No,nobody is behind it, it’s a natural mutation”  - but 47% said "Yes, it is deliberately spread” by a foreign power.

68.3% of Palestinians did support cooperation between the Palestinian and Israeli authorities in managing the crisis.

Over 70% of Palestinians said that they had already been personally impacted economically by the coronavirus.

(full article online)









						47% of Palestinians think that he coronavirus was created by a foreign power
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The *Jerusalem Post* names them as Muhammed Pilpel, 29 from Beit Lahiya, and Mahmoud Halua, 32, from Jabaliya. Other news reports give their names as Mohammed Filfel and Mahmoud Halawa.

Through the two Hamas men, according to Israel's Shin Bet, she is said to have transferred hundreds of thousands of shekels to the Hamas terrorists


> “while scamming aid organizations and innocent civilians who donated funds with the aim of reaching patients and the needy”


in the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)









						16-Mar-20: Israeli Arab mother is arrested; allegedly posed as welfare worker while serving Hamas
					

Protestors demanding the suspect's release [ Image Source ]   A news report published yesterday [" Shin Bet says it nabbed Arab Israeli ...




					thisongoingwar.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

She shared a clip of soldiers disinfecting a crossing into the Palestinian Authority with the text: “another atrocity of the occupation under the auspices of Corona – the IDF is spraying the Palestinians at a Qalqilya crossing with an unidentified material. All opinions show that spray is ineffective in fighting the virus.”

“We cannot ignore the horrors committed in wake of the crisis,” she added.

It turned out that it was not IDF forces, but rather  the Palestinian Authority that had decided to disinfect the checkpoint and carried through with it

(full article online)









						Arab Israeli Lawmaker Lauds ‘Heroic Efforts’ of Arab Terrorists’ Mothers
					

A member of Knesset (MK) from the Joint Arab List released a video thanking the mothers of Arab terrorists for their “heroic efforts,” as a symbol of “appreciation” on Mother’s Day which wa




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Hollie

Eh! A little virus never hurt anyone. 

Besides, if Arabs-Moslems get sick, they can just blame Israel.



*Fatah: Honoring terrorists is more important than stopping Coronavirus *

Fatah: Honoring terrorists is more important than stopping Coronavirus  | PMW Analysis 
  Mar 26, 2020 

In what was probably the largest gathering this week anywhere in the world, since self-isolation is the key to defeating the Coronavirus, Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement organized a celebration with “thousands” of Palestinians crammed together to honor a terrorist released from prison.


Fatah’s message to its own people is that honoring a terrorist involved in the murder of 6 Israelis takes priority over their own health.


The following pictures of the massive crowds were posted on Fatah’s official Facebook page with the following text:




> "The reception for released prisoner Nidal Turkeman tonight at the Jenin refugee camp"


----------



## Hollie

While I believe it’s true that coronavirus has played a part in reducing the gee-had attacks against Israel, there’s another factor. Prior to the virus outbreak, Islamic terrorist attacks had been fewer. With the Egyptian _de-facto _banning of Haniyeh from Gaza and Yahya Sinwar in hiding fearing an IsraelI Hellfire Missile Retirement Package, the Islamic terrorist leadership was hobbled. 



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-ceasefire-between-israel-hamas-and-hezbollah-wont-last/
		


As the coronavirus pandemic continues to spread, Israel, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups in the Gaza Strip have reached an informal understanding about the need to maintain a de facto ceasefire


----------



## Sixties Fan

What really happened?



> The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) slammed the Human Rights NGO B'Tselem for alleging that the IDF demolished a coronavirus treatment center built by Palestinians in the Jordan Valley.
> 
> “We are sorry to see a Human Rights NGO choosing to exploit a global crisis to spread fake news,” the COGAT press statement said.
> 
> COGAT claims that the demolished structure was a guarding post built illegally and without permits by a resident of Bardala, which is northeast of Nablus.
> 
> Neither the Palestinian Authority (PA) nor International Health groups requested to build a treatment center for COVID-19 patients, according to COGAT's claims.
> 
> COGAT is coordinating the delivery of thousands of masks and COVID-19 test kits donated by the World Health Organization to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, despite the blockade still enforced there. The aid is also provided to the West Bank, which is under the control of the PA.




Khirbet Ibziq is in Area C where Israeli permits are required to build - under international law. (If Israel is considered the belligerent occupier, then Israel is required to administer building permits. If Israel claims the territory then it still is required to administer building permits.) Residents in the area of Khirbet Ibziq have a history of illegal building, which B'Tselem documents. This time they pretended that a couple of the tents were for a coronavirus clinic, even though no one even told the Palestinian Authority about this, let alone Israel.

(full article online)









						Palestinians - and B'Tselem - exploiting coronavirus to demonize Israel, claim Israel destroyed a fake "clinic"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

As expected, the competing mini-caliphates are preparing to blame Israel for the expected spread of corona virus. Rather than accept responsibility for their inability to perform the duties of government, the islamic terrorist leadership will look for someone to blame for their ineptitudes. 











						The Palestinian Authority and Hamas Blame Israel for the Spread of Coronavirus (Updated to March 26, 2020) - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

Since the beginning of the coronavirus crisis the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas have been particularly worried about the spread of the virus from Israel (despite the fact that the first cases of the coronavirus, and some later ones, came from people who arrived in the PA territories from...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




Since the beginning of the coronavirus crisis the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas have been particularly worried about the spread of the virus from Israel (despite the fact that the first cases of the coronavirus, and some later ones, came from people who arrived in the PA territories from abroad, not from Israel).


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_

Well, I think they better look at the evidence.  The Arab Palestinians have an ally called Iran.  Look at the cluster and how it develops.



Hollie said:


> As expected, the competing mini-caliphates are preparing to blame Israel for the expected spread of corona virus.


*(COMMENT)*

I've been look at the Histigraphic .gif trailing the outbreak.  Once it breaks Chinese containment, it explodes in Europe, and shortly after, in Persia.



There might be a correlation with population density.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_

Possible coincidence of interest.



RoccoR said:


> View attachment 316138
> There might be a correlation with population density.


*(COMMENT)*
First, keeping in mind the "incubation Period,"  look at the first explosion of cases on Chinese New Years 25 Jan.  And consider what thechart (_above_) shows for February 11 _(observaance of Revolution Day in Iran)_.

THEN consider the birthday of *Imam Ali* (March 8).  The chart below shows how the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the state has more than tripled, going from 212 on Wednesday, March 11, to 950 today (March 16). Most of the cases are in New York City and nearby New Rochelle. Part of that increase is simply because the state is testing more people, but it’s impossible to tease that out from the real spread of the disease.



​Now we know these are just coincidences, and not "causation."  But I saw that and thought the correlation was peculiar.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Islamic terrorist franchises decided a little coronavirus made the appropriate reason to attack Israel. 



*Israel strikes Gaza in retaliation for rocket fire









						Israel strikes Gaza in retaliation for rocket fire
					

Rocket fire breaks lull in violence as both sides fight the coronavirus.




					m.jpost.com
				



*
By ANNA AHRONHEIM 
MARCH 27, 2020 23:57




A rocket is fired towards Israel, in the southern Gaza Strip February 24, 2020
(photo credit: REUTERS/IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA)
*Rocket fire breaks lull in violence as both sides fight the coronavirus.*


----------



## Hollie

An interesting article that addresses evolving IsraelI (and U.S.), tactics. The article describes that IsraelI responses to Islamic terrorist rocket attacks may be much swifter and intended to go beyond simple “respond in kind” retaliation. 











						US and Israel alter military focus
					

Both the United States and Israel are in the middle of reassessing and reworking their war fighting capability. In the US the shift is linked to the growing importance of the Pacific theater o…




					asiatimes.com
				




In a paper for the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar Ilan University in Ramat Gan, Yaakov Lappin writes that the new Israeli military plan, named Momentum, is focusing on destroying the enemy’s capabilities rather than just retaliating against specific attacks. The Momentum Plan stresses that the Israeli Army’s new approach approach is not to seize territory but to take away the enemy strike capability. The US Marines shares this outlook with their Israeli colleagues.


----------



## Hollie

With their welfare checks in the mail, the Islamic terrorists apparently they would spend some money on rockets to attack Israel. 

I suppose coronavirus patients will have to go to the back of the line and wait for whatever welfare money is left over for care and medications. 



*Qatar to send $2.7 million to Hamas for impoverished Palestinians.*








						Quartet worried about coronavirus impact on Gaza
					

Qatar to send $2.7 million to Hamas for impoverished Palestinians.




					m.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

What needs to be compared isn't the total population of Israelis and Palestinians, but the number of people stricken with coronavirus. After all, healthy people clearly don't need ventilators.

So let's look at the numbers again, assuming her ventilator numbers are correct:

Number of Israelis diagnosed with Covid-19 (not yet recovered)  as of this writing: 4115
Number of Palestinians diagnosed with Covid-19 (not yet recovered) as of now: 91

Number of ventilators per patient in Israel: 0.53
Number of ventilators per patient in the Palestinian territories: 3.24









						Palestinians have SIX TIMES the number of ventilators per sick person compared to Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> Eh! A little virus never hurt anyone.
> 
> Besides, if Arabs-Moslems get sick, they can just blame Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Honoring terrorists is more important than stopping Coronavirus *
> 
> Fatah: Honoring terrorists is more important than stopping Coronavirus  | PMW Analysis
> Mar 26, 2020
> 
> In what was probably the largest gathering this week anywhere in the world, since self-isolation is the key to defeating the Coronavirus, Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement organized a celebration with “thousands” of Palestinians crammed together to honor a terrorist released from prison.
> 
> 
> Fatah’s message to its own people is that honoring a terrorist involved in the murder of 6 Israelis takes priority over their own health.
> 
> 
> The following pictures of the massive crowds were posted on Fatah’s official Facebook page with the following text:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The reception for released prisoner Nidal Turkeman tonight at the Jenin refugee camp"
Click to expand...


It is the will of Allah !


----------



## Sixties Fan

I've been making posters to counter the lies from the hate-Israel crowd, but they would be far more effective if they are used as replies to the hashtags and libels that claim that Israel limits medicine and humanitarian aid to gaza.

So, use these liberally.

(see posters online)









						Posters to tweet/FB to counter the Gaza libels
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

We are back to the Dark Ages.

They used to accuse Jews of spreading the plague by poisoning the wells. Now they are saying that Jews are spreading the plague more directly.

(full article online)









						Newest blood libel: Despicable Palestinian PM accuses IDF of purposefully spreading #Covid19
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It’s as though lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems house factories to churn out copies of people like this.


----------



## Sixties Fan

> “Since the wheels of production, import, and consumption have stopped, there will be a large drop of more than 50% in the PA’s revenues… The international aid will decrease because the entire world is in crisis, and therefore we will work according to an emergency austerity budget by reducing the expenses as much as possible. However, we will pay the salaries for this month [March] in full and over the course of several days in order to prevent gatherings in front of the banks, and this [will be] in the following manner:
> 
> On Sunday the salaries of the medical and supporting personnel will be paid.
> On Monday to the [PA] Security Forces members.
> *On Tuesday to the prisoners and [the families of] the Martyrs.*
> On Wednesday to welfare cases and the poor.
> On Thursday to the teachers.
> On Friday to the rest of the [PA] public employees.
> The last payment, on Saturday, will be to senior officials, to high level state employees, and to the ministers.”
> [WAFA, Official PA news agency, March 29, 2020]



As Palestinian Media Watch has shown, this is not the first time the PA has clearly demonstrated its warped priorities. In 2019, when the PA decided to plunge itself into a self-made financial crisis and was forced to cut salaries to its law abiding employees, it nevertheless committed itself to paying, in full, the salaries of the terrorist prisoners and allowances of the families of the dead terrorists.   

Similarly, the fact that the PA prioritizes the payment of the terror rewards over the payment of benefits to the needy Palestinians, is not a surprise. As PMW demonstrated, the PA devotes six times more of its budget to the terrorist prisoners and the families of the dead terrorists than it does to its needy.

(full article online)









						Coronavirus and PA financial priorities | PMW Analysis
					

The amount the PA is paying terrorists this month could buy them 387,143 Coronavirus test kits or 465 ventilators instead




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The current pandemic has reduced the number of terror attacks and riots in Israel and the territories to nearly zero.  In fact, today is "Land Day," a major event that is usually marked with mass anti-Israel rallies, and this year the Palestinians can do virtually nothing.

Hamas, which is built on a culture of glorifying death and "martyrs," has very little to talk about without physical attacks.  So its top story on the Al Qassam Brigades website is about the "martyrdom" of someone who just died of injuries from a car accident four years ago.

(full article online)









						Forget gas masks and ventilators - Hamas suffering from a shortage or martyrs
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The PA (the Abbas Mini-caliphate), seems to have some odd notion that Hamas has any regard for edicts coming down from Ramallah. I can't say I'm clear why _Director of the Caliphate_, _his Majesty_ Mahmoud Abbas would presume that Hamas would seek his authorization on anything.


*








						Palestinian Authority 'deeply concerned' over Israel-Hamas truce deal
					

The measures, seen in the context of the indirect negotiations between Israel and Hamas over a long-term ceasefire.




					www.jpost.com
				



* *The measures, seen in the context of the indirect negotiations between Israel and Hamas over a long-term ceasefire.*

The officials warned that Hamas was not authorized to conduct negotiations with Israel or any other party, particularly regarding the situation in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_

BLUF:  This is a case of the intention of  according "Palestine non-member observer State status in the United  Nations,  without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as  the representative of the Palestinian people." _ (See:  __*A/RES/67/19  Status of Palestine in the United Nations*__) _ 



Hollie said:


> The PA (the Abbas Mini-caliphate), seems to have some odd notion that Hamas has any regard for edicts coming down from Ramallah. I can't say I'm clear why _Director of the Caliphate_, _his Majesty_ Mahmoud Abbas would presume that Hamas would seek his authorization on anything.
> 
> The officials warned that Hamas was not authorized to conduct negotiations with Israel or any other party, particularly regarding the situation in the Gaza Strip.


*(COMMENT)*

Who "exhibited their Full Powers, which were found to be in good and due order" in the Arab Palestinian territories?  (See: the opening sentence just before the Articles of the *Convention on Rights and Duties of States*.)

The Convention on Rights and Duties of States makes the assumption that there is a "government" (yes who represents the people of Palestine) with "sovereign authority" (full powers) that is "in good and due order."  Can we really say that?

The question becomes, what qualifies the entity know as Palestine, to be a government?  Is there a defined territory (outlined) over which a single Arab Palestinian representative exercises "full powers" _(sovereignty)_? I say that is questionable. And that the neither the Gaza or Ramallah Governments can claim.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who cares more for Palestinians, Israel or BDS? (poster)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Linda Sarsour has some interesting friends who are planning an interesting get-together. 











						Linda Sarsour Touts Corona Fundraiser for Terror-Tied Org | Clarion Project
					

Linda Sarsour is holding a coronavirus fundraiser to benefit Gaza with Baitulmaal USA, an organization with ties to the terrorist group Hamas.




					clarionproject.org
				




Islamist activist, sharia apologist and co-founder of the Women’s March Linda Sarsour is holding a coronavirus fundraiser to benefit the people of Gaza through Baitulmaal USA, an organization with ties to the Islamist terror group Hamas.

The Middle East Forum notes UFA’s ties to Hamas:



> _“UFA has never been shy about its affiliations. It advertises in the prominent Hamas daily newspaper, Felesteen, in which it mentions its support from Baitulmaal. And on UFA’s Facebook page, its officials have written: “We ask God to drive away the anguish of the heroic prisoners in the Nazi Zionist jails and to free Al-Aqsa Al-Sharif [the Noble Al-Aqsa] from the filth of the most dirty Jews.”_


----------



## Hollie

More hero worship from the Abbas Mini-caliphate for a murderous psychopath.

I don’t think that the downward spiral into the abyss of malformed personalities and an inability to conform to some very basic standards of social order are surprising with such an insular society.










						Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Mourns Female Plane Hijacker
					

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah have publish an obituary to Therese Halasa, a former terrorist who helped hijack a plane in 1972




					www.israellycool.com
				




With more sadness and sorrow, the Palestinian National Liberation Movement "Fatah" is responsible for the file of the wounded on the yard.
For those who don't know Teresa hls is a Jordanian Jordanian and her mother is Palestinian..


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  This is a case of the intention of  according "Palestine non-member observer State status in the United  Nations,  without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as  the representative of the Palestinian people." _ (See: __*A/RES/67/19  Status of Palestine in the United Nations*__) _
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PA (the Abbas Mini-caliphate), seems to have some odd notion that Hamas has any regard for edicts coming down from Ramallah. I can't say I'm clear why _Director of the Caliphate_, _his Majesty_ Mahmoud Abbas would presume that Hamas would seek his authorization on anything.
> 
> The officials warned that Hamas was not authorized to conduct negotiations with Israel or any other party, particularly regarding the situation in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Who "exhibited their Full Powers, which were found to be in good and due order" in the Arab Palestinian territories?  (See: the opening sentence just before the Articles of the *Convention on Rights and Duties of States*.)
> 
> The Convention on Rights and Duties of States makes the assumption that there is a "government" (yes who represents the people of Palestine) with "sovereign authority" (full powers) that is "in good and due order."  Can we really say that?
> 
> The question becomes, what qualifies the entity know as Palestine, to be a government?  Is there a defined territory (outlined) over which a single Arab Palestinian representative exercises "full powers" _(sovereignty)_? I say that is questionable. And that the neither the Gaza or Ramallah Governments can claim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



I think your question is a strikes at the heart of the matter:
“...Is there a defined territory (outlined) over which a single Arab Palestinian representative exercises "full powers" _(sovereignty)_?”

If we drill down on this, the answer is no. 

I would be hard pressed to identify “Palestinian territories” as anything but separate and distinct enclaves with loosely defined lines of demarcation defining each enclaves control. More along the lines of street gangs controlling turf than a government exercising effective control or authority..


----------



## Hollie

“Perverse priorities” and “honoring a (Islamic) Terrorist”.

You just know where this is going. 









						Even a pandemic won’t move Palestinian leaders to protect Palestinian lives
					

In the worst case of perverse priorities since an Iranian cleric last month called on citizens to congregate in holy sites despite the coronavirus outbreak, the Fatah rulers of the Palestinian Auth…




					nypost.com
				




In the worst case of perverse priorities since an Iranian cleric last month called on citizens to congregate in holy sites despite the coronavirus outbreak, the Fatah rulers of the Palestinian Authority organized a mass gathering last week to honor a terrorist.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> Before the elections earlier this month in Israel, Abbas’ Presidential Guards published a statement demonizing Israelis as a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians



Somethings need repeating when it's the truth and nothing but the truth because Israelis are a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians by murdering as many Palestinian children as they can.

You don't have to believe me, just Google "IDF shooting children"
-


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the elections earlier this month in Israel, Abbas’ Presidential Guards published a statement demonizing Israelis as a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somethings need repeating when it's the truth and nothing but the truth because Israelis are a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians by murdering as many Palestinian children as they can.
> 
> You don't have to believe me, just Google "IDF shooting children"
> -
Click to expand...

I guess useful idiots are a rarity these days...

Does it mean if I Google "Cheese Moon"
it must be true?


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the elections earlier this month in Israel, Abbas’ Presidential Guards published a statement demonizing Israelis as a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somethings need repeating when it's the truth and nothing but the truth because Israelis are a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians by murdering as many Palestinian children as they can.
> 
> You don't have to believe me, just Google "IDF shooting children"
> -
Click to expand...

Just google “Pallywood”.


----------



## Hollie

Parents must swell with pride at their children’s kindergarten graduation. There’s just so much to look forward to, like kidnapping Jews.


----------



## Hollie

Some house cleaning being undertaken in one of the Islamic terrorist enclaves. Israeli security forces made arrests in Ramallah along with the detention of Omar Barghouti and his son.










						Security forces arrest Palestinians terrorist suspects
					

Troops arrested father of deadly 2018 Givat Assaf, Ofra shooter




					m.jpost.com
				




Israeli security forces have arrested two Palestinians in the Ramallah area, including the father of a terrorist responsible for two deadly attacks against soldiers and civilians in 2018.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The silence of the feminists: Here is the list of laws that hurt women in the West Bank and Gaza that NO ONE talks about
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## toastman

watchingfromafar said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the elections earlier this month in Israel, Abbas’ Presidential Guards published a statement demonizing Israelis as a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somethings need repeating when it's the truth and nothing but the truth because Israelis are a bloodthirsty people thriving on war that seeks the "destruction" of the Palestinians by murdering as many Palestinian children as they can.
> 
> You don't have to believe me, just Google "IDF shooting children"
> -
Click to expand...


Thank you for proving to us all that you know nothing about Israel or Israelis. 

"Bloodthirsty" ...


----------



## Hollie

Islamic incitement centers for gee-had.

I have stopped going to the mosque," she said. "Why? The one main reason is the culture of incitement."


----------



## Sixties Fan

The rocket attacks against Israel appear aimed at distracting attention from the failure of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) to provide their hospitals with medical equipment and medicines to curb the spread of the disease. In the past decade, the two groups have invested millions of dollars in amassing weapons and building tunnels to infiltrate Israel and kill or kidnap Jews.
These leaders [of Hamas and PIJ] would rather see Palestinians die of the disease than join forces with Israel -- which has doing its utmost to help the Palestinians by providing them with tests kits, protective gear and training sessions for medical professionals....
The good news is that a majority of Palestinians disagrees with PIJ. A public opinion poll published last week by a Palestinian center found that 68% of respondents support the medical cooperation with Israel.
A statement issued by Hamas on March 30 said that "the only way to liberate the land is through resistance." The only "resistance" Hamas knows is the one that includes launching rockets and missiles at Israel or carrying out suicide bombings against Israelis.
Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are again paying the price of failed leaders who care more about fighting Israel than saving the lives of patients and medical teams.

(full article online)









						Palestinians: Despite Coronavirus, Jihad Against Israel Continues
					

The rocket attacks against Israel appear aimed at distracting attention from the failure of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) to provide their hospitals with medical equipment and medicines to curb the spread of the disease. In the past decade,




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

A Pal’istanian “academic” (ok, keep the laughter to a minimum), was providing a smorgasbord of Arab-Moslem conspiracy theories on a range of subjects. 

As you might expect, the _Great Satan_™️ is bad and Hitler didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. 

These are some desperately ill people.










						Palestinian-American Academic Seif Da'na on Hizbullah TV: Coronavirus May Have Leaked from U.S. Lab; Western Economic Policies Kill More People than COVID-19; Hitler Did Not Do Anything “Out of the Ordinary” But Is Viewed as Satan Because He Did It i
					

Seif Da'na, a Palestinian-American Professor of Sociology at the University of Wisconsin-Parkside, said in a March 29, 2...




					www.memri.org
				




Seif Da'na, a Palestinian-American Professor of Sociology at the University of Wisconsin-Parkside, said in a March 29, 2020 interview on Manar TV (Hizbullah – Lebanon) that more people die every year from diseases like malaria and as a result of Western economic policies than from coronavirus. Professor Da’na, who was speaking from Chicago, said there is a resemblance between COVID-19 and Adolf Hitler's actions, who he said did not not do “anything out of the ordinary” since his actions had been no different than what Europeans did in colonial times. He explained that Hitler is viewed as Satan only because he did these things in Europe, and he added that the coronavirus may have leaked from Fort Detrick, a U.S. Army installation in Maryland.


----------



## Hollie

Sounds like a plan.


*Hamas: Armed struggle against Israel will continue*
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
DECEMBER 8, 2018 21:19





A member of Hamas' military police walks through rubble at a site that was hit by Israeli air strikes in Gaza City on August 9, 2018
(photo credit: MAHMUD HAMS / AFP)


----------



## Hollie

As you might have guessed, the very worst examples of murderous psychopaths are regaled as heroes in the Death Cult that is the PA.


*Female terrorists are female role models: A mass murderer, a bomb maker, a plane hijacker - PA message to women on International Women's Day*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Apr 1, 2020



On International Women’s Day, PA TV paused from its almost continuous reporting on Coronavirus, to present female terrorists as role models for Palestinian women.


----------



## Hollie

It’s called “Arab-Moslem Syndrome”


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. With corona virus a new excuse for the Islamic terrorists to demand welfare money, it might be _racist_™️ or even _islamophobic_™️ not to continue the tradition of making Islamic terrorists very, very wealthy. 










						The Palestinian Authority and its money
					





					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




A report on what happens to the funds that are collected through the Palestinian Authority Donor Machine.

When it comes to humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority, transparency does not exist. 

The result is a rich Palestinian elite which  builds exclusive neighborhoods around Ramallah,  leaving thousands of shoddily constructed apartments without services for the rest of Palestinian society.

Yasser Arafat set the tone for the PA when he arrived in Gaza in 1994. Arafat took control of every contract and investment, using donor money to build a secret $1 billion portfolio, including investments in Coca Cola, a Tunisian cellular phone company and venture capital funds in the US  and Cayman Islands.


----------



## Hollie

The conspiracy theory nutters in the PA are working overtime. 


*PA rewrites Hans Christian Andersen's "It's Quite True" - the making of a Corona fairy tale









						PA rewrites Hans Christian Andersen's "It's Quite True" - the making of a Corona fairy tale | PMW Analysis
					

How the PA turned one spit on the ground into a deliberate Israeli plot to infect Palestinians with Coronavirus and “get rid” of all Palestinians.




					palwatch.org
				



*Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Apr 2, 2020
*PA rewrites Hans Christian Andersen - It’s Quite True*

*How the PA turned one spit on the ground into a deliberate Israeli plot to infect Palestinians with Coronavirus and “get rid” of all Palestinians*


----------



## watchingfromafar

Jews and Israeli’s are not one and the same. Real Jews have found their true homeland in the USA and are peaceful, loving people;.,., Israeli’s on the other hand have found their true calling to be *murdering children*

_Almost every day here the Israelis shoot at random.,,.I came out to find her. She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying, 'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head*, one straight after the other. She was still in my arms and she died."_
.,.,.
_Palestinian girl. Huda Darwish was sitting at her school desk when a cluster of shots smashed through the glass and lodged in the *12-year-old girl's brain.* _
.,.,.
_On Friday, a soldier at a West Bank checkpoint *shot dead a four-year-old boy*, Ghassan Kabaha_
.,.,.
_It was the same when *seven-year-old Ali Ghureiz was shot in the head* on the street outside his house in Rafah. And when *Haneen Abu Sitta, 12, was killed while walking home after school*_
'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'

There is only one way to put this, *Israeli’s are cold blooded murderers*

-


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> Jews and Israeli’s are not one and the same. Real Jews have found their true homeland in the USA and are peaceful, loving people;.,., Israeli’s on the other hand have found their true calling to be *murdering children*
> 
> _Almost every day here the Israelis shoot at random.,,.I came out to find her. She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying, 'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head*, one straight after the other. She was still in my arms and she died."_
> .,.,.
> _Palestinian girl. Huda Darwish was sitting at her school desk when a cluster of shots smashed through the glass and lodged in the *12-year-old girl's brain.* _
> .,.,.
> _On Friday, a soldier at a West Bank checkpoint *shot dead a four-year-old boy*, Ghassan Kabaha_
> .,.,.
> _It was the same when *seven-year-old Ali Ghureiz was shot in the head* on the street outside his house in Rafah. And when *Haneen Abu Sitta, 12, was killed while walking home after school*_
> 'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'
> 
> There is only one way to put this, *Israeli’s are cold blooded murderers*
> 
> -


Flame roll. 
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

If you are a Christian; this may be of interest to you~~~~

*Reality is at your door. Muslims do not do the following & now you know who does*
Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop* Spitting* on Them a few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window.
Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

Oct 12, 2004 - *Christians* in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop *Spitting* on Them. A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window.
*https://tinyurl.com/j77w4jd*

DL: *Spitting at Christians* a 'repulsive act'
Jewish group calls on Israel's Chief Rabbinate to denounce decades-old ultra-Orthodox practice of* spitting at Christian *clergymen on the street. 'This is a hateful act of persecution against another faith group
*https://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3443,00.html*

CHRISTIANS FEEL GROWING OPPRESSION IN ISRAEL
Traditional Christians in Israel today who increasingly find themselves under assault, especially those living in or near orthodox Jewish neighborhoods. Last month, two churches were painted with slogans such as *“Jesus is dead” and “Death to Christianity.” *Many priests are daily spat upon when walking on the streets in Jerusalem.
*https://tinyurl.com/y9jvz59g*

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has called on the Chief Rabbinate of Israel to publicly denounce the *repulsive decades-old practice by ultra-Orthodox Jews of spitting at Christian clergymen* they encounter in the street.
*https://tinyurl.com/y8u3zfkd*

*Don't worry, I will not post here again -*


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud also needs to get his presidential jet into the shop for a brake job. Won’t you help?

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that the UN is begging for welfare donations. They just don't seem to apply any measure of accountability for the money. 


*UN Official Calls for Assisting the Palestinian Government in Fight against Coronavirus*

April 2, 2020 7:12 PM Rami Almeghari News Report 0





United Nations’ Special Coordinator for Middle East Peace, Nickolay Mladenov, called on Thursday for helping the Palestinian Authority fight against the coronavirus (COVID-19).
In a new statement, reported by local media outlets, Mladenov urged key international donor countries to promptly aid the Palestinian Authority, voicing concerns amidst the rapid spread of Coronavirus, across the occupied Palestinian territories.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> .,,.,.,.,.,.,,.deliberate Israeli plot to infect Palestinians with Coronavirus and “get rid” of all Palestinians


Sadly, I believe it's true
Now this is my last post
-


----------



## Hollie

From deep underground, Mr. Silly, speaks. 

I’m not sure who Mr. Silly is trying to impress, but it doesn’t appear he’s in control of all his faculties. 


*Hamas: 'If we're going to need ventilator, six million Israelis will not breathe' *









						Hamas: 'If we're going to need ventilator, six million Israelis will not breathe'
					






					www.ynetnews.com
				




Elior Levy|
Published: 04.02.20 , 20:59 










Hamas' leader in Gaza Yahya Sinewar threatened military escalation with Israel, if there are not enough ventilators for the coronavirus patients in the Gaza Strip. 

"When we need respirators, I tell Bennett, we will make six million Israelis unable to breathe," he said in an interview with a Hamas television channel.


----------



## Hollie

Pal mother of the year award nominee.


----------



## Hollie

Yo Jamal. You go, boy. 



Fatah Central Committee Member Jamal Muhaisen said that Hamas is a terrorist movement and that even if it were to rehabilitate the people who were imprisoned or had their arms or legs broken, it would return to its old ways within a matter of months.


----------



## Sixties Fan

But, at the same time, Hamas pretended to offer a deal if Israel released prisoners who are old and sick, women and those under 18. A Hamas press release said, "We can offer a partial concession on the issue of the captured Israeli soldiers, in exchange for the release of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian prisoners, the elderly, the sick, women and children."

The nature of this "partial concession" is not even hinted at. Maybe Israel can expect a fingernail or a 1 cm square piece of cloth from one of the uniforms of the dead.

Left completely unspoken is the fate of the two Israelis who are still presumed alive in Gaza,  Hisham al-Sayed, an Israeli Arab, and Avera Avraham Mengistu, an Ethiopian Jew, both of whom are said to be mentally impaired and both of whom walked into Gaza on their own where they disappeared. They are clearly not soldiers and therefore not mentioned by Hamas, although Hamas has implied that it is holding them hostage.

Under international law, the Israeli hostages and the remains of the soldiers must be released unconditionally.

Even though Hamas is not offering anything concrete or specific for the unnamed "partial concessions,"  it is congratulating itself on its humanity by even pretending to make an offer. "As a humanitarian initiative in light of the coronavirus crisis, it reflects the values, ethics and principles of this movement that values man, his life, his freedom, his dignity to everything, and the flexibility of Hamas in dealing with this situation," the press release said.

Yes, at the same time they are threatening a new Holocaust against Jews, they are telling the world how moral they are. You could not make this up.

(full article online)









						Hamas threatens another Holocaust - and then praises itself on how humanitarian it is
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Of course _Israel is to blame_™️. That’s the mantra of an insensately angry and incompetent “peoples” who have spent decades making themselves the forever, aggrieved victims they choose to be. 











						Hamas blames Israel for coronavirus outbreak in Gaza
					

Spokesman says Israel does not address humanitarian needs of Gaza residents  - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




The Hamas movement said on Friday that Israel alone bares the responsibility for the repercussions of coronavirus outbreak in Gaza due to the blockade and restrictions imposed.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_


Hollie said:


> Of course _Israel is to blame_™️. That’s the mantra of an insensately angry and incompetent “peoples” who have spent decades making themselves the forever, aggrieved victims they choose to be.


*(INTERESTING)*

I read the Anadolu Agency article, and I too am amazed.

My question would be, given that Israel is not held in such high regard by the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), how is it Israel's fault that the humanitarian needs of Gaza.  The blockade, which was not put in place until 2007, two years since the Israel Unilateral Withdrawal.  It was necessary, as a practical step to prevent the illicit transfer,  destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons by HAMAS.  It is NOT a systematic crime against the Gazan Palestinians as the terrorist supporter Hazim Qasim said.  It meets the intent and purpose of:

◈   International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing​​◈   1991 Convention on the Marking of Plastic Explosives for the Purpose of Detection​​◈   Plan of Action to Prevent Violent Extremism (A/70/674)​
The separation between Israeli sovereign territory and the Jihadist Government of Gaza would be the one they most recently challenged by the mass demonstrations.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course _Israel is to blame_™️. That’s the mantra of an insensately angry and incompetent “peoples” who have spent decades making themselves the forever, aggrieved victims they choose to be.
> 
> 
> 
> *(INTERESTING)*
> 
> I read the Anadolu Agency article, and I too am amazed.
> 
> My question would be, given that Israel is not held in such high regard by the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), how is it Israel's fault that the humanitarian needs of Gaza.  The blockade, which was not put in place until 2007, two years since the Israel Unilateral Withdrawal.  It was necessary, as a practical step to prevent the illicit transfer,  destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons by HAMAS.  It is NOT a systematic crime against the Gazan Palestinians as the terrorist supporter Hazim Qasim said.  It meets the intent and purpose of:
> 
> ◈   International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing​​◈   1991 Convention on the Marking of Plastic Explosives for the Purpose of Detection​​◈   Plan of Action to Prevent Violent Extremism (A/70/674)​
> The separation between Israeli sovereign territory and the Jihadist Government of Gaza would be the one they most recently challenged by the mass demonstrations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I wasn’t the least bit surprised that Israel was at the end of a wagging finger of Hamas, while Egypt was not. Egypt also has a security threat to deal with and while to a lesser degree than Israel maintains travel and commerce restrictions with Gaza.

This is just another case where Hamas will refuse being held accountable for their actions and seeks to hand-wave off their inability to provide civil and administrative responsibilities of government.

I have to believe that once again, it is a mistake to that pretend that Hamas, principally an Islamic terrorist franchise, has any interest or ability to assume the role of responsible government.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing









						Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists
					

According to official Palestinian reports, the actual expenditure by the Palestinian Authority on salaries to incarcerated terrorists during 2019 was 517.4 million shekels ($148 million). This is in comparison to 502 million shekels in 2018. The overall actual expenditures of the PA ministry for...




					www.gfatf.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_

Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_

*BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.



Hollie said:


> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing


*(COMMENT)*

It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.

For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.

Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
Click to expand...


Welfare system...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorists enact laws making themselves "constitutionally protected" islamic terrorists.  

How cute.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_


Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists enact laws making themselves "constitutionally protected" islamic terrorists.
> 
> How cute.


*(NOTATION)*

We call this phenomenon:  "*criminal acts under the color of law*"





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
Click to expand...

You’re right. They are not “terrorists in Palestine « , they are terrorists all over the world.
They do not defend the Palestinians, they make their life ten times harder to live by inciting violence and war.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists enact laws making themselves "constitutionally protected" islamic terrorists.
> 
> How cute.
> 
> 
> 
> *(NOTATION)*
> 
> We call this phenomenon:  "*criminal acts under the color of law*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


What I simply don’t understand is the willingness on the part of the international community to shower Islamic terrrorist organizations with welfare money. These are the organizations which have oppressed those who elected them to govern, violently crushed opposition, and recruit their minions to commit acts with the express goal of exterminating another sovereign nation.

Hamas is the terrorist organization that recruited “protestors” for the border riots while they desired and planned for violence from the beginning, as they have admitted, and as the body count and wounded gives evidence. Qatari bagmen bring suitcases full of cash into Gaza and significant amounts of that cash go unaccounted for.

After decades of the insanity surrounding what amounts to financing and rewarding Islamic terrorism, the financing and rewards still continue.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
Click to expand...


"..._a welfare system fot its people in need_"









						Top 10 Richest Terrorist Groups In The World 2022, Most Dangerous Terror Organisation | Trendrr
					

The activities of the infamous terrorism are a set of intimidation in lieu of achieving something forcefully. It is executed to spread to violence and cruelty by affecting a lot of casualties and unnecessary riots across the globe. Successive terrorist activities led to the monetary gains which...



					www.trendrr.net
				




2. Hamas


----------



## Hollie

Hamas terrorists can't really define were this imaginary place they call "Palestine" is located. There are the mini-caliphates of Gaza and the West Bank. I'm thinking both groups want the territory occupied by the competing mini-caliphate.  


Hamas Political Bureau Member: Schools Will Teach Gaza's Children How to Liberate Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists enact laws making themselves "constitutionally protected" islamic terrorists.
> 
> How cute.
> 
> 
> 
> *(NOTATION)*
> 
> We call this phenomenon:  "*criminal acts under the color of law*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinian constitution forbids discrimination. It also forbids collective punishment. And there is no law against fighting the occupation.

So you are just blowing wind.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "..._a welfare system fot its people in need_"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 10 Richest Terrorist Groups In The World 2022, Most Dangerous Terror Organisation | Trendrr
> 
> 
> The activities of the infamous terrorism are a set of intimidation in lieu of achieving something forcefully. It is executed to spread to violence and cruelty by affecting a lot of casualties and unnecessary riots across the globe. Successive terrorist activities led to the monetary gains which...
> 
> 
> 
> www.trendrr.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Hamas
Click to expand...

And we have a billionaire president while people die in the street.

What is your point?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right. They are not “terrorists in Palestine « , they are terrorists all over the world.
> They do not defend the Palestinians, they make their life ten times harder to live by inciting violence and war.
Click to expand...

Who have they ever attacked besides the occupation?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_

This is misinformation all the way around.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian constitution forbids discrimination.  It also forbids collective punishment.


[/indent]
*(COMMENT)*

How does this relate to "Hollie's" reply?  Each Israeli new shekel used for other than the legal purpose and corruption is malfeasance _(wrongdoing, especially by an Arab Palestinian public official)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> And there is no law against fighting the occupation.
> 
> So you are just blowing wind.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that is simply NOT true.  Article 68 Fourth Geneva Convention is an International Humanitarian Law, with the force of a Treaty, criminal acts subject to prosecution and penalties: "Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,

I wish you would not repeat this misinformation.  It only encourages Arab Palestinians to commit criminal acts.  And you incite in and by itself is a violation of international law.  Here again, this is a demonstration that the Arab Palestinians have no regard for the Rule of Law.



			
				S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
			
		

> 1.  Calls  upon  all  States  to  adopt  such  measures  as  may  be  necessary  and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​​


.
​


			
				Internation Convention on Civil and Political Rights said:
			
		

> _*Article 20  CCPR*_​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​


​




Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> This is misinformation all the way around.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian constitution forbids discrimination.  It also forbids collective punishment.
> 
> 
> 
> [/indent]
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How does this relate to "Hollie's" reply?  Each Israeli new shekel used for other than the legal purpose and corruption is malfeasance _(wrongdoing, especially by an Arab Palestinian public official)_.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And there is no law against fighting the occupation.​​So you are just blowing wind.​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is simply NOT true.  Article 68 Fourth Geneva Convention is an International Humanitarian Law, with the force of a Treaty, criminal acts subject to prosecution and penalties: "Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
> 
> I wish you would not repeat this misinformation.  It only encourages Arab Palestinians to commit criminal acts.  And you incite in and by itself is a violation of international law.  Here again, this is a demonstration that the Arab Palestinians have no regard for the Rule of Law.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Calls  upon  all  States  to  adopt  such  measures  as  may  be  necessary  and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​.
> ​​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Internation Convention on Civil and Political Rights said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article 20  CCPR*_​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​​​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,​R​
Click to expand...

Israel's occupation is illegal, so it gets what it gets.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

*BLUF:*  How do you define an Occupation?  I define it according to the Hague Regulation (Article 43).  

Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.​   The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel's occupation is illegal, so it gets what it gets.


*(COMMENT)*

Condition 1:  In what way can you take the definition of "Occupation" and cite the inverse to the definition to make it define an illegal Occupation.

Condition 2:  Once you find the inverse of the "occupation," THEN tell me where, under international law, it states that.

I don't think you can do that.  Why, because the inverse of "occupation is "no occupation."  The inverse of "placed under the authority of the hostile army" is "not placed under the authority of the hostile army."  

Help me understand what you actually mean when you say "illegal occupation."

Remember, the territory that the Israelis placed under the authority of the Israeli Defense Force was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  It passed from the hands of the Jordanians who announce to the world they cut all ties.  That left it in the hands of the Israelis.

No territory was taken from the Arab Palestinians.  In fact, it is the Arab Palestinians that are trying to take the territory under the effective control of the Israelis by force.

But I'm really interested where under international law does it define an "illegal occupation."


Was East Timor an illegal occupation?"
Was the Crimea an "illegal occupation?"





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "..._a welfare system fot its people in need_"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 10 Richest Terrorist Groups In The World 2022, Most Dangerous Terror Organisation | Trendrr
> 
> 
> The activities of the infamous terrorism are a set of intimidation in lieu of achieving something forcefully. It is executed to spread to violence and cruelty by affecting a lot of casualties and unnecessary riots across the globe. Successive terrorist activities led to the monetary gains which...
> 
> 
> 
> www.trendrr.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And we have a billionaire president while people die in the street.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...

The point is, you folks have difficulties with rational decision making skills.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right. They are not “terrorists in Palestine « , they are terrorists all over the world.
> They do not defend the Palestinians, they make their life ten times harder to live by inciting violence and war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who have they ever attacked besides the occupation?
Click to expand...

How about we start with IsraelI athletes in Germany? Are athletes _The Occupation_™️?

It’s comical that you cut and paste slogans; _The Occupation_™️while you can’t define what land is being occupied and you don’t understand the definition of terms or slogans you cut and paste.


----------



## Hollie

Ahmad  (“_The Conqueror_”) Al-Khatwani has some grandiose plans for something he calls “Palestine”. He’s not clear as to who will conquer Israel and then move on to conquer Rome and Moscow or how the Crusading Islamists will do that. 

I was rather insulted he didn’t include Washington DC is his list of places to conquer but I can understand he’s lamenting the loss of Europe by the Islamist Crusades after the death of the inventor of Islam. 



He said that everything but an Islamic state has been tried and predicted that an Islamic state could easily and swiftly liberate Palestine and annihilate Israel. He also said that an Islamic state would conquer Rome and Moscow.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  How do you define an Occupation?  I define it according to the Hague Regulation (Article 43).
> 
> Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.​   The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's occupation is illegal, so it gets what it gets.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Condition 1:  In what way can you take the definition of "Occupation" and cite the inverse to the definition to make it define an illegal Occupation.
> 
> Condition 2:  Once you find the inverse of the "occupation," THEN tell me where, under international law, it states that.
> 
> I don't think you can do that.  Why, because the inverse of "occupation is "no occupation."  The inverse of "placed under the authority of the hostile army" is "not placed under the authority of the hostile army."
> 
> Help me understand what you actually mean when you say "illegal occupation."
> 
> Remember, the territory that the Israelis placed under the authority of the Israeli Defense Force was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  It passed from the hands of the Jordanians who announce to the world they cut all ties.  That left it in the hands of the Israelis.
> 
> No territory was taken from the Arab Palestinians.  In fact, it is the Arab Palestinians that are trying to take the territory under the effective control of the Israelis by force.
> 
> But I'm really interested where under international law does it define an "illegal occupation."
> 
> 
> Was East Timor an illegal occupation?"
> Was the Crimea an "illegal occupation?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country. 

Art. 46. Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
   Private property cannot be confiscated. 

Art. 47. Pillage is formally forbidden. 

Art. 50. No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible. 

Art. 55. The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct. 

Art. 56. The property of municipalities, that of institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, even when State property, shall be treated as private property.
   All seizure of, destruction or wilful damage done to institutions of this character, historic monuments, works of art and science, is forbidden, and should be made the subject of legal proceedings. 

Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited. 

Art. 28. The pillage of a town or place, even when taken by assault, is prohibited.​
The rules of occupation gives the occupying power obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  How do you define an Occupation?  I define it according to the Hague Regulation (Article 43).
> 
> Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.​   The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's occupation is illegal, so it gets what it gets.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Condition 1:  In what way can you take the definition of "Occupation" and cite the inverse to the definition to make it define an illegal Occupation.
> 
> Condition 2:  Once you find the inverse of the "occupation," THEN tell me where, under international law, it states that.
> 
> I don't think you can do that.  Why, because the inverse of "occupation is "no occupation."  The inverse of "placed under the authority of the hostile army" is "not placed under the authority of the hostile army."
> 
> Help me understand what you actually mean when you say "illegal occupation."
> 
> Remember, the territory that the Israelis placed under the authority of the Israeli Defense Force was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  It passed from the hands of the Jordanians who announce to the world they cut all ties.  That left it in the hands of the Israelis.
> 
> No territory was taken from the Arab Palestinians.  In fact, it is the Arab Palestinians that are trying to take the territory under the effective control of the Israelis by force.
> 
> But I'm really interested where under international law does it define an "illegal occupation."
> 
> 
> Was East Timor an illegal occupation?"
> Was the Crimea an "illegal occupation?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.​​Art. 46. Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.​Private property cannot be confiscated.​​Art. 47. Pillage is formally forbidden.​​Art. 50. No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible.​​Art. 55. The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct.​​Art. 56. The property of municipalities, that of institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, even when State property, shall be treated as private property.​All seizure of, destruction or wilful damage done to institutions of this character, historic monuments, works of art and science, is forbidden, and should be made the subject of legal proceedings.​​Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.​​Art. 28. The pillage of a town or place, even when taken by assault, is prohibited.​
> The rules of occupation gives the occupying power obligations and restrictions. Israel violates virtually all of them.
Click to expand...


You might not have noticed that you failed to identify the sovereign Arab-Moslem territory that is subject to your cut and paste list.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists enact laws making themselves "constitutionally protected" islamic terrorists.
> 
> How cute.
> 
> 
> 
> *(NOTATION)*
> 
> We call this phenomenon:  "*criminal acts under the color of law*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian constitution forbids discrimination. It also forbids collective punishment. And there is no law against fighting the occupation.
> 
> So you are just blowing wind.
Click to expand...

It’s actually comical to suggest that Islamic terrorists would abide by a “constitution”.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.


P F Tinmore said:


> Art. 43.​


​Article 43:
◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Art. 46.​


​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Art. 47.


◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Art. 50.


◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Art. 55.


◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Art. 26, 28, 56.


◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
*(COMMENT)*

The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.

While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.

Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA rewrites Hans Christian Andersen - It’s Quite True *


*How the PA turned one spit on the ground into a deliberate Israeli plot to infect Palestinians with Coronavirus and “get rid” of all Palestinians*

(full article online)









						PA rewrites Hans Christian Andersen's "It's Quite True" - the making of a Corona fairy tale | PMW Analysis
					

How the PA turned one spit on the ground into a deliberate Israeli plot to infect Palestinians with Coronavirus and “get rid” of all Palestinians.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas newspaper cartoons shows Gaza rockets to force Jews to give aid,  Jews as being "the most dangerous virus." (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## rylah

*Watch: Former Terrorist Denounces the Global ‘Occupation’ Industry*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure if that would be, under other circumstances, a violation of International Law.  But it is not an act of an entity, quasi-government or not, that supports the *Rule of Law*. _ (Whatever hardship befalls the Arab Palestinians, I won't feel sorry one bit.  They are angry, corrupt and cruel with no regard for human life.)_
> 
> *BLUF:* The Palestinian Authority commits an offense if they directly provide funds with the knowledge that they are rewarding and furthering the criminal activity where such activity encourages the commission of an offense acts of terrorism in anticipation of a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian authorities insist on paying salaries to terrorists*
> March 27, 2020 » Today News » Hamas / Terror Financing
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a crying shame that donor nations to the Arab Palestinian causes facilitate and encourage terrorism.  In some families, it is a form of supplemental income.  It is a form of ritual sacrifice --- the offering of the life of a family member to secure a line of lifetime support through the commission of acts of intimidation in attempting to coerce the population that has the highest level of human development of any country in the region _(rich or poor)_.
> 
> For as much as the Palestinians _(West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem)_ are insisting on certain demands and the eradication of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel, the conflict is really about Power and Wealth as the hidden agenda of the Palestinians leadership _(they are lining their pockets)_.  The Arab Palestinian have devoted all their efforts to the conflict _(Jihad and armed struggle being the only solution)_ and virtually nothing towards their infrastructure, commerce, and economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make me laugh. Hamas, PFLP, etc. are not terrorists in Palestine. They are constitutionally protected political organizations. Acts against the occupation are not terrorism.
> 
> Palestine has a welfare system fot its people in need. They are not going to change their domestic policy to please some foreign, juvenile name callers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right. They are not “terrorists in Palestine « , they are terrorists all over the world.
> They do not defend the Palestinians, they make their life ten times harder to live by inciting violence and war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who have they ever attacked besides the occupation?
Click to expand...

The thousands of attacks that Palestinians perpetrated within Israel’s borders


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
Click to expand...

How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.



When Arabs dedicate themselves to killing Jews and then act upon it, OF COURSE they are aggressors.

The fact that you support the murder of Jews does not change that fact one iota.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
Click to expand...

Once.

Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.




 There were no so-called "Palestinians" in 1948, just Arabs.

To say it was Jews who initiated attacks is an intentional lie.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dogmaphobe said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no so-called "Palestinians" in 1948, just Arabs.
> 
> To say it was Jews who initiated attacks is an intentional lie.
Click to expand...

More unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no so-called "Palestinians" in 1948, just Arabs.
> 
> To say it was Jews who initiated attacks is an intentional lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

No, it is called history.

 Your mind is simply too filled with the insane hatred of Jews to understand history.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dogmaphobe said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no so-called "Palestinians" in 1948, just Arabs.
> 
> To say it was Jews who initiated attacks is an intentional lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it is called history.
> 
> Your mind is simply too filled with the insane hatred of Jews to understand history.
Click to expand...

Whose version of history? Israel's?


----------



## Hollie

Angry Yahya is demanding that ventilators be brought into Gaza. He’s doing his best impersonation of an Islamic Terrorist who thinks others should care that he’s making pompous demands. 









						Hamas blusters for Israeli coronavirus aid
					

Hamas has neglected the health system of Gaza for years, so its only weapon against the coronavirus is threatening Israel or offering a deal for help.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar spoke directly to Gaza via Hamas' television network April 2. Sinwar told residents about how Hamas is preparing for the war against the pandemic. Among other things he showed them how the keffiyeh, or headscarf worn by Muslim men, could help them protect themselves and their surroundings. He then spoke directly to Israeli Defense Minister Naftali Bennett, saying that Hamas doesn’t need any help but threatening, “If ventilators are not brought into [Gaza], we’ll take them by force from Israel and stop the breathing of six million Israelis.”

Read more: Hamas blusters for Israeli coronavirus aid


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Angry Yahya is demanding that ventilators be brought into Gaza. He’s doing his best impersonation of an Islamic Terrorist who thinks others should care that he’s making pompous demands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas blusters for Israeli coronavirus aid
> 
> 
> Hamas has neglected the health system of Gaza for years, so its only weapon against the coronavirus is threatening Israel or offering a deal for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar spoke directly to Gaza via Hamas' television network April 2. Sinwar told residents about how Hamas is preparing for the war against the pandemic. Among other things he showed them how the keffiyeh, or headscarf worn by Muslim men, could help them protect themselves and their surroundings. He then spoke directly to Israeli Defense Minister Naftali Bennett, saying that Hamas doesn’t need any help but threatening, “If ventilators are not brought into [Gaza], we’ll take them by force from Israel and stop the breathing of six million Israelis.”
> 
> Read more: Hamas blusters for Israeli coronavirus aid



You expect them to dig terror tunnels AND provide for the healthcare of their people?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
Click to expand...

You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no so-called "Palestinians" in 1948, just Arabs.
> 
> To say it was Jews who initiated attacks is an intentional lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it is called history.
> 
> Your mind is simply too filled with the insane hatred of Jews to understand history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose version of history? Israel's?
Click to expand...

Nope. Anyone with a brain. Which you clearly do not have


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> Whose version of history? Israel's?


No, human history.

I suppose you can be forgiven for not knowing since that isn't your species.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the international community agrees with the Arab-Moslem terrorists; islamic terrorism pays-with western welfare dollars. 










						PA prioritizes terror payments over welfare as coronavirus curbs budget
					

The Palestinian Authority is expecting a 50% decrease in income thanks to the impact of the virus.




					m.jpost.com
				





The Palestinian Authority is expecting a 50% decrease in income as a result of the virus' impact, anticipating that governments around the world will decrease their international aid payments during the crisis. Accordingly, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh has announced that March's payments to public servants and welfare recipients will be staggered across the course of a week in early April.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is getting more desperate and more bellicose. It’s now come to their demands that the IsraelIs supply aid for an anticipated Gaza virus spread or they attack Israel with rocket fire. 

How deep can Yahya Sinwar bury himself in a Hamas tunnel to avoid an IsraelI targeted response to Islamic terrorist attacks. 











						Hamas plans to demand medical aid from Israel due to coronavirus – report
					

According to Channel 13 reporter Zvi Yehezkeli the Hamas leadership views COVID-19 as a threat to their control of the Gaza Strip.




					m.jpost.com
				




*According to Channel 13 reporter Zvi Yehezkeli the Hamas leadership views COVID-19 as a threat to their control of the Gaza Strip.*

Should Hamas see it is facing a collapse in the Gaza Strip due to COVID-19, it plans to demand Israel provide medical aid, Channel 13 reporter Zvi Yehezkeli said on Tuesday, _Maariv_ reported.  

“We need to examine this thing,” he said, “and the IDF is also looking into it. Eventually, the coronavirus crisis can become rockets fired at Israel.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
Click to expand...

Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
Click to expand...

It was the will of Allah.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
Click to expand...

Israel was created and exists, much to your dismay .


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
Click to expand...


The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
Click to expand...

Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?

Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


Thanks. You confirmed the status of the Arab-Moslem invaders. 

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

*BLUF:* I've seen you ask this question before. You have a myopic view of what was happening, why it was happening, and where it was happening. The Jewish National Home was envisioned as a place of refuge and development well beyond the Balfour Declaration. In fact, I'm quite sure that the critical need for such a special place would not become clear for another three decades. A vast majority of the Arab Palestinians would capture and digest that future vision, even up through today, a century later.

Certainly, had the Jewish National Home existed during the period 1933 through 1945, it might have helped mitigate the devastating effects of the holocaust and provided a welcoming sanctuary that would have alleviated the disasters like the SS St Loius.



P F Tinmore said:


> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?


*(COMMENT)*

At the time, (1948) the Arab Palestinians view of the plight of the Jewish People was not so dissimilar from the discrimination harbored by the 1933 era Master Race.  In fact, people like the Grand Mufti Mohammed Amin al-Husseini _(A former Commissioned Officer in the Ottoman Army and NAZI ally)_, Ahmed Hilmi Pasha _(a former General in the Ottoman Army)_, Hasan Salama _(a NAZI covert operative and member of a NAZI Special Commando Unit)_, and Fawzi al-Qawuqji _(a graduate of the Ottoman Military Academy and former Colonel of the Wehrmacht)_, all of whom were still in political play and had strong connections with either the NAZIs, the Arab Liberation Army (ALA), and the Holy War Army (HWA).  And none of which had any interest in a favorable solution in developing sound Arab-Jewish Relations. 

The vision was that gradually, a significant portion of the world-wide Jewish constituency would migrate to Israel (the Jewish National Home), increasing the three-fold. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...

Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
Of course not


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:* I've seen you ask this question before. You have a myopic view of what was happening, why it was happening, and where it was happening. The Jewish National Home was envisioned as a place of refuge and development well beyond the Balfour Declaration. In fact, I'm quite sure that the critical need for such a special place would not become clear for another three decades. A vast majority of the Arab Palestinians would capture and digest that future vision, even up through today, a century later.
> 
> Certainly, had the Jewish National Home existed during the period 1933 through 1945, it might have helped mitigate the devastating effects of the holocaust and provided a welcoming sanctuary that would have alleviated the disasters like the SS St Loius.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the time, (1948) the Arab Palestinians view of the plight of the Jewish People was not so dissimilar from the discrimination harbored by the 1933 era Master Race.  In fact, people like the Grand Mufti Mohammed Amin al-Husseini _(A former Commissioned Officer in the Ottoman Army and NAZI ally)_, Ahmed Hilmi Pasha _(a former General in the Ottoman Army)_, Hasan Salama _(a NAZI covert operative and member of a NAZI Special Commando Unit)_, and Fawzi al-Qawuqji _(a graduate of the Ottoman Military Academy and former Colonel of the Wehrmacht)_, all of whom were still in political play and had strong connections with either the NAZIs, the Arab Liberation Army (ALA), and the Holy War Army (HWA).  And none of which had any interest in a favorable solution in developing sound Arab-Jewish Relations.
> 
> The vision was that gradually, a significant portion of the world-wide Jewish constituency would migrate to Israel (the Jewish National Home), increasing the three-fold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Jewish National Home was envisioned as a place of refuge and development well beyond the Balfour Declaration.


External interference.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  toastman,  _et al,_

BLUF:  Substantially, anything before 1948, is irrelevant.  No matter who "was" right or wrong 70 years ago is of no importance.  It will not set the conditions as such that it will create change.

◈  The Israelis will NOT alter, in any significant way, their national identity, based on pressure from non-domestic influences.​◈  The Israelis will NOT compromise their national independence or take such actions that will put at risk that national independence.​◈  The Israelis will NOT compromise their sovereign and territorial integrity.​


toastman said:


> Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
> Of course not


*(COMMENT)*

A probable forecast into the future of Israel might be seen as:

◈  Israel will, incrementally, embrace more and more people with a common history and culture.​◈  Israeli advances seek such relations that will improve its economic system and its operation in Israel.​◈  Israel will development relations among the Regional Powers _(and beyond)_  that will improve the transfer of production from producer to the consumer world-wide.​
What you might begin to notice is that Israel will gradually develop apathy towards Arab Palestinian criticism _(to a point where it will be ignoring it altogether)_ and focus on the productive concerns that improve all aspects of tomorrow's Israel. 

Most Arab Palestinians are stuck in past.  Most Israeli's are thinking five, six and seven moves ahead - into the future.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  toastman,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Substantially, anything before 1948, is irrelevant.  No matter who "was" right or wrong 70 years ago is of no importance.  It will not set the conditions as such that it will create change.
> 
> ◈  The Israelis will NOT alter, in any significant way, their national identity, based on pressure from non-domestic influences.​◈  The Israelis will NOT compromise their national independence or take such actions that will put at risk that national independence.​◈  The Israelis will NOT compromise their sovereign and territorial integrity.​
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
> Of course not
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A probable forecast into the future of Israel might be seen as:
> 
> ◈  Israel will, incrementally, embrace more and more people with a common history and culture.​◈  Israeli advances seek such relations that will improve its economic system and its operation in Israel.​◈  Israel will development relations among the Regional Powers _(and beyond)_  that will improve the transfer of production from producer to the consumer world-wide.​
> What you might begin to notice is that Israel will gradually develop apathy towards Arab Palestinian criticism _(to a point where it will be ignoring it altogether)_ and focus on the productive concerns that improve all aspects of tomorrow's Israel.
> 
> Most Arab Palestinians are stuck in past.  Most Israeli's are thinking five, six and seven moves ahead - into the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Very well said Rocco!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a rare case where Israel's enemies from the Left would not adopt Hamas' statistics over Israel's, because they want Palestinians to appear nonviolent. This argument loses its power when Hamas itself is bragging about attacks and wants to make itself look better politically - and attacks on Jews fill the bill.

(full article online)









						Hamas counts many more terror attacks in March than the Shin Bet does
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  toastman,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Substantially, anything before 1948, is irrelevant.  No matter who "was" right or wrong 70 years ago is of no importance.  It will not set the conditions as such that it will create change.
> 
> ◈  The Israelis will NOT alter, in any significant way, their national identity, based on pressure from non-domestic influences.​◈  The Israelis will NOT compromise their national independence or take such actions that will put at risk that national independence.​◈  The Israelis will NOT compromise their sovereign and territorial integrity.​
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
> Of course not
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A probable forecast into the future of Israel might be seen as:
> 
> ◈  Israel will, incrementally, embrace more and more people with a common history and culture.​◈  Israeli advances seek such relations that will improve its economic system and its operation in Israel.​◈  Israel will development relations among the Regional Powers _(and beyond)_  that will improve the transfer of production from producer to the consumer world-wide.​
> What you might begin to notice is that Israel will gradually develop apathy towards Arab Palestinian criticism _(to a point where it will be ignoring it altogether)_ and focus on the productive concerns that improve all aspects of tomorrow's Israel.
> 
> Most Arab Palestinians are stuck in past.  Most Israeli's are thinking five, six and seven moves ahead - into the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Standing applause, Rocco. I think the above nicely encapsulates the situation today. I think our friend P F Tinmore has this vision of himself and others living in a 19th century, agrarian society wearing a robe and sandals as though time suddenly stopped in that late century. 

The Arabs-Moslems seem to be forever chained to a distant past when Islamic armies spilled out of the peninsula and carved a path of destruction and conquest across the Middle East and North Africa.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
> Of course not
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
> Of course not
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You had to dig deep into your YouTube collection for that crusty archive.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...


Our own MAD policy is the same.  Mutual Assured Destruction is a valid defense posture.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


*Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?*

Good point....Arabs go home!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.



Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.


----------



## Hollie

More of the behavior that typifies the Cult Of Arabs-Moslems and their willingness to exploit children in furtherance of their insensate Jew hatreds. 









						Hamas Uses Children as Human Shields, and Israel Gets Blamed
					

Hamas supporters take part in a rally celebrating the 30th anniversary of the group’s founding, in Gaza City on Dec. …




					www.algemeiner.com
				







Hamas supporters take part in a rally celebrating the 30th anniversary of the group’s founding, in Gaza City on Dec. 14, 2017. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.

On February 19, 2019, Fathi Hammad, a member of the Hamas Political Bureau, made a public statement saying that “we will teach our kids in the kindergartens, the elementary schools, and the middle schools how to move forward and liberate their land, with the help of Allah alone.”
This declaration was followed by a claim that “once you [children] complete the advanced course of the ‘March of Return,’ you should join the Al-Quds and Al-Qassam Brigades, the mujahideen and the freemen, wherever they may be.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

BLUF:  This is how the man earns extra income → "speaking engagements."



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

See:  Posting:  #16190

In the first 5-minutes of his presentation, he speaks of association others made about Zionism and "Settler Colonialism" made 1960s and 1970s.  And he noted that the model that most inspired the Arab-Palestinian activities was the National Liberation Front (FLN).  And the clear target of any anti-colonialist movement _(in the 60s and 70s) _was "to send the settlers back home."  And this became the objective and the target of the anti-Zionist movement → to send the Israelis back home.  And he further noted that in recent times _(implying the first years of the 21st Century)_ it became much more attractive to write on "settler colonialism" which has become the current paradigm.  And then he defines the difference between "colonialism" and "settler colonialism."  The big difference is that the "settler colonialists" were not sent by empires. 

But, as I said before, it is an infinitesimal probability that even the collective of the various Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) entities working in concert could dislodge the Israeli determinism.

But, there is a very good possibility that if the HoAP were to inflict such damage and casualties on Israel, that reach an unrecoverable state, that might very well trigger draconian measures the likes of which the Arab Palestinians will not survive.  And I believe that the HoAP currently doesn't have the offensive capability to raise the conflict to that level, they are that stupid to make such a suicidal attempt.  

 Just my Thought,




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie,  _et al,_


Hollie said:


> “we will teach our kids in the kindergartens, the elementary schools, and the middle schools how to move forward and liberate their land, with the help of Allah alone.”
> 
> “once you [children] complete the advanced course of the ‘March of Return,’ you should join the Al-Quds and Al-Qassam Brigades, the mujahideen and the freemen, wherever they may be.”


*(COMMENT)*

This is called "generational terrorist." _(Passed from generation to generation.)_

Any system of religious veneration and devotion (Abrahamic Churches for example) is just a step away from believing in the supernatural. And in culture where the male head of household who is strong and lovingly followed by the offspring can easily pass-on radical teaching and beliefs. This is the theory.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “we will teach our kids in the kindergartens, the elementary schools, and the middle schools how to move forward and liberate their land, with the help of Allah alone.”
> 
> “once you [children] complete the advanced course of the ‘March of Return,’ you should join the Al-Quds and Al-Qassam Brigades, the mujahideen and the freemen, wherever they may be.”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is called "generational terrorist." _(Passed from generation to generation.)_
> 
> Any system of religious veneration and devotion (Abrahamic Churches for example) is just a step away from believing in the supernatural. And in culture where the male head of household who is strong and lovingly followed by the offspring can easily pass-on radical teaching and beliefs. This is the theory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Agreed. The familial dynamic (male dominated, authoritarian nature), of Pal-Arab society along with the elements in the linked article nicely encapsulates the “generational terrorist” description. The article below examines primarily three components of Pal-Arab society that contributes to the endemic hatred for Jews (and Christians) that permeates Pal-Arab culture. 

I don’t think it can be overstated that when a top to bottom, life defining program of indoctrination, one with religious undercurrents, instills virulent hatreds as a religious duty, you create a prescription for a maladjusted personality. 

There are societal consequences for such things as kindergarten graduation where Pal-Arab children with mock weapons kidnap Jews, Hamas gee-had summer camp, the glorification of death as a “martyr”, etc. 

This behavior begins in earliest childhood and has a singular focus of promoting hate and self-hate as a means of vilification of Jews. 






__





						Hatred of the Jews as a Psychological Phenomenon in Palestinian Society | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs
					

Palestinian hatred of the Jews emanates from three principal sociohistorical sources: (1) Koranic and Hadith injunctions; (2) extremist Islamic militancy; and (3) the highly successful indoctrination and incitement of children established by the Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat.




					jcpa.org
				




Palestinian hatred of the Jews emanates from three principal sociohistorical sources:  (1) Koranic and Hadith injunctions; (2) extremist Islamic militancy; and (3) the highly successful indoctrination and incitement of children established by the Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat.


----------



## Hollie

Wow. Never saw this comin’. 

<snark>











						Palestinian Writers: The Coronavirus Is A Biological Weapon Employed By U.S., Israel Against Their Enemies
					

The coronavirus outbreak has been accompanied by the circulation of many conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus, which were published, inter alia, in the Arab media and




					www.memri.org
				




_The coronavirus outbreak has been accompanied by the circulation of many conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus, which were published, inter alia, in the Arab media and especially in the Palestinian media.*[1]* While Palestinian Authority (PA) government spokesman Ibrahim Milhem said that the PA is taking measures against the virus in coordination and collaboration with Israel,*[2]* some in the Palestinian media accused Israel and the U.S. of spreading the coronavirus in the world for various reasons: in order to weaken China and Iran, to help Trump's reelection campaign and/or to facilitate Israel's takeover of the region._


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
Click to expand...


Ya think?

Got a link for the history of the *nation* of Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billy_Kinetta said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya think?
> 
> Got a link for the history of the *nation* of Palestine?
Click to expand...

When was it that everyone left and were replace by a new people?


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

P F Tinmore said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya think?
> 
> Got a link for the history of the *nation* of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it that everyone left and were replace by a new people?
Click to expand...


You do realize that I asked for the history of the Palestinian nation, yes?  Produce.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billy_Kinetta said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya think?
> 
> Got a link for the history of the *nation* of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it that everyone left and were replace by a new people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that I asked for the history of the Palestinian nation, yes?  Produce.
Click to expand...

Is this a trick question. The Palestinians have lived there forever.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

P F Tinmore said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya think?
> 
> Got a link for the history of the *nation* of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it that everyone left and were replace by a new people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that I asked for the history of the Palestinian nation, yes?  Produce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this a trick question. The Palestinians have lived there forever.
Click to expand...


No trick question.  I've lived in New York before.  That does not make me a New Yorker.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

*BLUF:* Well, I don't think you really believe that.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> AND​When was it that everyone left and were replace by a new people?
> AND​Is this a trick question. The Palestinians have lived there forever.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh, I think about 5000 years ago, the Canaanites (≈3000BCE) establish a few enclaves in the territory.  They were not the same as Palestinians.  There was no Palestine in 3000BCE.  It was the Israelite migration from Egypt that overcame the Canaanites.  And that is when the regional struggle over territory begins.

The Origins of the Name “Palestine” (VIDEO)  The first indication of the name "Aribi" comes from archeological finds that are Assyrian in origin. (≈ sometime: 800-700BCE). King David come on the scene in about 1000BCE and establishes Israel.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya think?
> 
> Got a link for the history of the *nation* of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it that everyone left and were replace by a new people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that I asked for the history of the Palestinian nation, yes?  Produce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this a trick question. The Palestinians have lived there forever.
Click to expand...

“Forever” is kind of a, you know, long time. Could you define a timeframe for “forever” relative to the “Country of Pally’land”

Link?


----------



## Hollie

A key element in the maintenance of totalitarianism is control and censorship of all forms of news, media and information. We see that as Hamas is arresting people in Gaza for video chatting with IsraelIs. 











						Coronavirus: Hamas arrests Palestinians for video chats with Israelis
					

The Palestinian activists have been holding conversations through Zoom and other social media platforms with people from all around the world, including Israel, about life in the Gaza Strip.




					m.jpost.com
				




Hamas has arrested several Palestinian activists who participated in web-based video conference conversations with Israelis earlier this week to discuss cooperation between young people and the situation in the Gaza Strip, particularly in light of the outbreak of the coronavirus pandemic


----------



## Hollie

On script, Rashida Tlaib is droning on with the "Great 
Satan is racist", meme. 





__





						Rashida Tlaib: ‘This Pandemic is Exposing Structural Racism in Our Country’
					

Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D.-Mich.) sent out a tweet on April 1 arguing that the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed the “structural racism” of the United States of America.




					cnsnews.com
				




(CNSNews.com) - Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D.-Mich.) sent out a tweet on April 1 arguing that the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed the “structural racism” of the United States of America.



Brought to you by Rashida Tlaib who was lecturing them-there white folks on facial recognition.

(CNN)Rep. Rashida Tlaib suggested that the Detroit police department should only employ African Americans to identify black suspects from the city's facial recognition technology, according to video captured by The Detroit News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A key element in the maintenance of totalitarianism is control and censorship of all forms of news, media and information. We see that as Hamas is arresting people in Gaza for video chatting with IsraelIs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus: Hamas arrests Palestinians for video chats with Israelis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian activists have been holding conversations through Zoom and other social media platforms with people from all around the world, including Israel, about life in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has arrested several Palestinian activists who participated in web-based video conference conversations with Israelis earlier this week to discuss cooperation between young people and the situation in the Gaza Strip, particularly in light of the outbreak of the coronavirus pandemic


Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.

We have a lot of censorship in the US. Phil Donahue (The highest rated show on MSNBC.) was fired because he did not tow the government line on the Iraq war. Many other journalists, like Greg Palast, Rula Jabreal, Abby Martin, and many others cannot work in the US because they do not tow the government line.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A key element in the maintenance of totalitarianism is control and censorship of all forms of news, media and information. We see that as Hamas is arresting people in Gaza for video chatting with IsraelIs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus: Hamas arrests Palestinians for video chats with Israelis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian activists have been holding conversations through Zoom and other social media platforms with people from all around the world, including Israel, about life in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas has arrested several Palestinian activists who participated in web-based video conference conversations with Israelis earlier this week to discuss cooperation between young people and the situation in the Gaza Strip, particularly in light of the outbreak of the coronavirus pandemic
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> We have a lot of censorship in the US. Phil Donahue (The highest rated show on MSNBC.) was fired because he did not tow the government line on the Iraq war. Many other journalists, like Greg Palast, Rula Jabreal, Abby Martin, and many others cannot work in the US because they do not tow the government line.
Click to expand...

This is not the thread for your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.

It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.

Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.



			https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
		


An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.

The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.

Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.


It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president. 

Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
Click to expand...


More of your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law. 





__





						Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
					






					en.wikisource.org
				




This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
Click to expand...


It’s odd that you would presume Islamic terrorist dictators  would abide by a “Constitution”. Isn’t there something in the mini-caliphate Constitution about term limits for dictators?

Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.

Not sure what you mean by “Palestine”. When did the West Bank, aka the Abbas mini-caliphate, magically become the “Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
Click to expand...

When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?

A faux agency that exists only on letterhead for the convenience of an Islamic dictator.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> A faux agency that exists only on letterhead for the convenience of an Islamic dictator.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?


Before the US coup in 2007.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> A faux agency that exists only on letterhead for the convenience of an Islamic dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before the US coup in 2007.
Click to expand...


Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories.

What coup?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s odd that you would presume Islamic terrorist dictators  would abide by a “Constitution”. Isn’t there something in the mini-caliphate Constitution about term limits for dictators?
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by “Palestine”. When did the West Bank, aka the Abbas mini-caliphate, magically become the “Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.


Do you mean the foreign appointed leaders?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> A faux agency that exists only on letterhead for the convenience of an Islamic dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before the US coup in 2007.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories.
> 
> What coup?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?









						The Gaza Bombshell
					

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current...




					www.vanityfair.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s odd that you would presume Islamic terrorist dictators  would abide by a “Constitution”. Isn’t there something in the mini-caliphate Constitution about term limits for dictators?
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by “Palestine”. When did the West Bank, aka the Abbas mini-caliphate, magically become the “Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the foreign appointed leaders?
Click to expand...


I meant the coup you claimed happened but couldn’t support with fact.

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> A faux agency that exists only on letterhead for the convenience of an Islamic dictator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last time the Palestinian Legislative Council met?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before the US coup in 2007.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat to conspiracy theories.
> 
> What coup?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gaza Bombshell
> 
> 
> After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vanityfair.com
Click to expand...


As noted before, your silly “coup” conspiracy theory is a complete fabrication.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems and their disposable children. Very disturbing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s odd that you would presume Islamic terrorist dictators  would abide by a “Constitution”. Isn’t there something in the mini-caliphate Constitution about term limits for dictators?
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by “Palestine”. When did the West Bank, aka the Abbas mini-caliphate, magically become the “Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the foreign appointed leaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I meant the coup you claimed happened but couldn’t support with fact.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*On The Map with Avi Lewis: Gaza Coup d'Etat?

*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s odd that you would presume Islamic terrorist dictators  would abide by a “Constitution”. Isn’t there something in the mini-caliphate Constitution about term limits for dictators?
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by “Palestine”. When did the West Bank, aka the Abbas mini-caliphate, magically become the “Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the foreign appointed leaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I meant the coup you claimed happened but couldn’t support with fact.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *On The Map with Avi Lewis: Gaza Coup d'Etat?
> 
> *
Click to expand...

Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

Saleh Al-Arouri was performing some world class sucking up before his Shia heroes in Tehran. 


He said that Hamas has a strong relationship with Hizbullah and with its leader, Hassan Nasrallah, and he said that he believes that the liberation of Jerusalem is near. Al-Arouri also praised Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, whom he met during his visit to Iran, and he expressed his gratitude for Khamenei's support of the Palestinians. He said that Khamenei is a great leader who is "second to none" in the Islamic world.


----------



## Hollie

Some rather petty games being played by Hamas as a way to attempt to pressure Israel. Israel is seeking release of soldiers captured in 2014 in exchange for medical aid to Gaza. Hamas is refusing to release the soldiers and has issued blustering threats about “six million Israelis may have to stop breathing”.

The captured IsraelI soldiers are of no strategic value to Hamas as the Israelis have shown they won’t cave to Islamic terrorist demands. I suppose Hamas has decided that expendable Arab-Moslem “martyrs”, sacrificed at the altar of viral infections serves the mini-caliphate. 










						Hamas rejects Israeli conditions to help Gaza confront coronavirus
					

In recent days, Hamas and Israel witnessed a clear row over providing medical assistance to the Gaza Strip to counter the coronavirus, as Israel stipulated the return of its soldiers captured in the 2...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




In recent days, Hamas and Israel witnessed a clear row over providing medical assistance to the Gaza Strip to counter the coronavirus, as Israel stipulated the return of its soldiers captured in the 2014 war as a condition of providing medical assistance. The Israel media has been calling for Hamas to release the soldiers in order to receive help to combat the coronavirus.

As for Hamas, it announced that it will obtain these humanitarian needs by force, through its leader in Gaza, Yahya Al-Sinwar, who announced that “six million Israelis may have to stop breathing” if Israel is unwilling to supply the Gaza Strip with the necessary respirators for coronavirus patients.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud may be having some trouble fogging a mirror so the race is on to be the winner of the mini-caliphate’s presidential jet.
> 
> It’s probable that, as noted in the linked article, various islamo-street gangs will take up arms against the competing gangs. At stake is control of millions of welfare dollars and individual fortunes for the winners of the welfare fraud prize.
> 
> Hamas will not sit idly by as street warfare consumes the competing mini-caliphate. The ugly (and very messy), civil war that consumed the competing mini-caliphates more than a decade ago may seem mild by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article241870541.html
> 
> 
> 
> An increasingly intense struggle to succeed the aging and ailing president of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, is under way.
> 
> The use of armed militias may be key to a contender’s success.
> 
> Armed support will be needed if the power struggle turns violent. Such militias could be ordered to take control of symbolic government sites, like the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority presidency in Ramallah, or TV and radio stations. While the PA has not clashed with such militias until now, their presence is a looming one.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that these propagandists never mention that the constitution lays out the procedures to replace a president.
> 
> Of course the US and Israel will not allow that to happen. More of that illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your silly conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority, temporarily for a period not exceeding (60) sixty days, during which free and direct elections to choose a new president shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constitution of Palestine (2003) - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This won't happen and Palestine will be stuck with another appointed leader.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s odd that you would presume Islamic terrorist dictators  would abide by a “Constitution”. Isn’t there something in the mini-caliphate Constitution about term limits for dictators?
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by “Palestine”. When did the West Bank, aka the Abbas mini-caliphate, magically become the “Magical Kingdom of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself: “term limits for dictators”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the foreign appointed leaders?
Click to expand...


Was that gay Egyptian guy appointed?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
Click to expand...


The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?

How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?
> 
> How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?
Click to expand...

Do you mean when the Jews (they weren't even Jews then) immigrated from Egypt.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?
> 
> How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?
Click to expand...

How many Jews in Israel can trace their specific family ancestry back to whenever the Jews were invented?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   et al,

Tracing and tracking linage, while interesting to many, is only one way _(of several ways)_ a person or group might be considered a Palestinian.  The primary method is cultural assimilation.  You are a member of a cultural group if you are recognized as one of their own by the culture.  Tracing your linage back thousands of years means nothing.

It is similar to being Jewish or American.    To assimulated by the Jewish people, you must go before a type of court to be quizzed.  To change your citizenship to American you must take a test.  To be Jewish, once you pass the court inquiry, you go to the ritual bath.  To be an American, you must be sworn in by oath.  When the Allied Powers, at the San Remo Convention, used the phrase:  "historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine" it simply was not spelled out in any specific way _(intentionally)_.  During that period in history "common sense"_ (sound and valid judgment in practical application)_ was very important.  The intent was to establish the necessary "political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home."  It was not to make a binding judgment on "who is Jewish."  That would be an internal matter.  Just as being American is an internal matter.

You are a "Palestinian" when, _(whatever culture you are passing through or communicating with)_ you are accepted as a Palestinian by the local population _(the population for which you are immersed in contact)_.  

_REMEMBER:  Each Middle Easterner receives an average of one-quarter of their DNA from each of our four grandparents and an average of one-eighth of our DNA from each of our eight great-grandparents ... and so on._ _So, in 10 Generations, at ≈ 35 to 40 years per generation, takes them back 350 to 400 years (taking you back to the ≈ 1600s).  By the 10th Generation, they only inheriting about 0.976% ≈ 1% of the genetic material from those Great, Great... Grand Parents.  That is a time when the Ottoman Empire was at its height of Power.  And they controlled the entire Middle East → all of the territory which included the modern-day countries of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, and Israel._​
When the Roman Empire established control of Palestine (63 BC) it did so using the line of hereditary Jewish Kings for ≈700 years.  It would be very hard to say, during the time, how many cultures participated in Silk Road that started in Modern-Day Israel and Lebanon in the 1600.   How many cultures intermingled and developed in those crossroads.

Just My Thought,







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   et al,
> 
> Tracing and tracking linage, while interesting to many, is only one way _(of several ways)_ a person or group might be considered a Palestinian.  The primary method is cultural assimilation.  You are a member of a cultural group if you are recognized as one of their own by the culture.  Tracing your linage back thousands of years means nothing.
> 
> It is similar to being Jewish or American.    To assimulated by the Jewish people, you must go before a type of court to be quizzed.  To change your citizenship to American you must take a test.  To be Jewish, once you pass the court inquiry, you go to the ritual bath.  To be an American, you must be sworn in by oath.  When the Allied Powers, at the San Remo Convention, used the phrase:  "historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine" it simply was not spelled out in any specific way _(intentionally)_.  During that period in history "common sense"_ (sound and valid judgment in practical application)_ was very important.  The intent was to establish the necessary "political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home."  It was not to make a binding judgment on "who is Jewish."  That would be an internal matter.  Just as being American is an internal matter.
> 
> You are a "Palestinian" when, _(whatever culture you are passing through or communicating with)_ you are accepted as a Palestinian by the local population _(the population for which you are immersed in contact)_.
> 
> _REMEMBER:  Each Middle Easterner receives an average of one-quarter of their DNA from each of our four grandparents and an average of one-eighth of our DNA from each of our eight great-grandparents ... and so on._ _So, in 10 Generations, at ≈ 35 to 40 years per generation, takes them back 350 to 400 years (taking you back to the ≈ 1600s).  By the 10th Generation, they only inheriting about 0.976% ≈ 1% of the genetic material from those Great, Great... Grand Parents.  That is a time when the Ottoman Empire was at its height of Power.  And they controlled the entire Middle East → all of the territory which included the modern-day countries of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, and Israel._​
> When the Roman Empire established control of Palestine (63 BC) it did so using the line of hereditary Jewish Kings for ≈700 years.  It would be very hard to say, during the time, how many cultures participated in Silk Road that started in Modern-Day Israel and Lebanon in the 1600.   How many cultures intermingled and developed in those crossroads.
> 
> Just My Thought,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Thanks, Rocco, but that does not answer the question.

It does, however, bring up other questions about immigration and the "civil war."


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You don't put the history of the occupation in context.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 43.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Article 43:
> ◈  The Legitimate Power, having passed the territories by default, on 31 July 1988.  In 1994 final settlement was made between the two sovereign powers, Israel and Jordan.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 46.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​The Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C."​​◈  The Arab Palestinians have not been deprived of family honor.​​◈   The concern about Private property confiscation.​​✦  Denying safe haven to those engaged in terrorist acts, like other aspects of counter-terrorism can be seen as a human rights obligation of States. Under human rights law, States have an obligation to safeguard the right to life, Israeli as well as Arab Palestinian.​​✦  Israel adopted such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to: Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 47.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Pillage as a crime is formally forbidden National criteria, IDF Regulation and the ethical practices of the Israelis involved.​​◈  Article 47 deals with the "inviolability of rights."​​◈  Article 8* War Crimes - (2)(xvi) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; a subject I have no knowledge of in operations to suppress rioters, non-civil disobedience, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 50.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Article 50 deals with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions.  Not legal protection in a prosecution.  However, in a prosecution;​​◈  Except as provided in this Statute,  no person shall be tried before the  Court concerning conduct which formed the basis of crimes for which the person has been convicted or acquitted by the Court.   The ICC prosecutes were individual criminal responsibility has been attached.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 55.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  Again, I bring your attention to the fact that Israelis have full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C" as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Art. 26, 28, 56.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  The hodgepodge of accusatory implications, duplicate challenges, and claims are simply too incredibly vague for me to apply to any specific event or policy.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The policies that generally govern Arab Palestinian consequences promotes actions that maximize the security and protection deemed necessary to secure Israeli interests, territorial integrity, and independence.
> 
> While Israel has a vested interest in the happiness and well-being of the affected Arab Palestinians, the general rule of thumb is that how the Israelis deal with the Arab Palestinians has been an evolved process.  The reactions and interactions are a consequence of Hostile Arab Palestinian violence.
> 
> Anyone of these topics is more complicated then they appear.  There is no way they should be made challenges without context to an event and the claims addressed individually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times would Israel have attacked the Palestinians had they not attacked Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once.
> 
> Starting in 1948 and continuing to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn’t answer the question . The answer is zero. Israel has NO reason to attack the Palestinians unless they attack Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preposterous, how was Israel to create a Jewish state in Palestine when Palestine was only 1/3 Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole point of recognizing the right of a peoples to self determination is that it doesn't require the consensus of other peoples.  Do you want to argue that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link that Israelis are foreign settlers?
> Of course not
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Israel is a country. That is an undeniable fact. Whether you agree with it or not has no affect on this fact.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
Click to expand...

Cool story. There was still no country called Palestine. So what's your point ?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?
> 
> How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many Jews in Israel can trace their specific family ancestry back to whenever the Jews were invented?
Click to expand...


Who cares. Israel is a Jewish country and there's nothing you can do about that. 

How many Americans can trace back their specific family ancenstry ?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?
> 
> How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean when the Jews (they weren't even Jews then) immigrated from Egypt.
Click to expand...


When the nation of Israel returned from Egypt to their ancestral land,
most of the inhabitants still spoke Hebrew, no translators were needed, 
and all the geographical areas and cities bore their original Hebrew names.

It's native land of the Hebrews, who's direct descendants are Israel.
Philistines by definition were foreign invaders, it's their name.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?
> 
> How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many Jews in Israel can trace their specific family ancestry back to whenever the Jews were invented?
Click to expand...


It was your definition.  You created the definition of "Palestinians" being those who were there prior to the development of the Jewish people.  So how are you going to measure that?  How are you going to determine which people fit that definition and are "Palestinians"?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only "real" Palestinians are those who can trace their specific family ancestry back to BEFORE the origins of the Jewish people?
> 
> How, exactly, do you plan to measure and enforce that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many Jews in Israel can trace their specific family ancestry back to whenever the Jews were invented?
Click to expand...


You haven't been to a traditional Jewish wedding haven't you?
Amalekite filth are typically not invited to our celebrations.

We have family trees,
especially the House of David.


----------



## Hollie

The Egyptians are again taking a roll in attempting to throttle the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza.










						Egypt intervenes as Gaza warns Israel over medical aid
					

Egyptian intelligence has contacted Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza to prevent a military confrontation with Israel over the growing coronavirus threat.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Egyptian intelligence officials are mediating between Israel and Gaza Strip factions to prevent a possible military confrontation over the need for medical supplies to battle the coronavirus, an Egyptian parliament member told Al-Monitor recently.

The parliamentarian, who is close to Egyptian intelligence, told Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity, “Egyptian calls to the leaderships of Hamas and Islamic Jihad to contain the situation came after Egyptian intelligence received calls from Israeli officials to stop the two movements from carrying out military actions against Israel to pressure it into allowing the entry of anti-coronavirus medical tools.”


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Child Soldiers Can No Longer Be Ignored*


*“My son, we're not created for happiness. You are meant for Martyrdom!”*
*“Our weapon is our Islam, and our ammunition is our children.*

A young boy is brimming with excitement waiting for a toy from his mother. But instead of rewarding her son with a toy for finishing his food, his mother hands him a rifle. When the boy expresses confusion, she responds with a grim announcement:



> *Ru'a Tamimi:*“His mother promised him a gift if he finished his food. The boy wondered in excitement: “Is it a toy?” His mother approached him with a glowing look while carrying the gift. He looked, and it was a rifle! He shouted loudly: “O Mommy! Mommy! What is this? Is this the gift?” She picked him up, hugged him, and said: “My son, we were not created for happiness. *In my eyes you are meant for Martyrdom!”*
> 
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Nov. 22, 2019]​


​This is one of the abusive messages in a poem recited by a young girl on Palestinian radio that Abbas’ Fatah Movement chose to share with its 250,000 followers on Facebook. A second message in the poem that is clear child abuse tells Palestinian children why they are to die as Martyrs: They are merely the “ammunition” for Islam – the “cannon fodder" with which to conquer Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

I’m surprised the German government didn’t cave to the leftists/Islamists.










						Germany imposes four-year travel ban on senior Palestinian terrorist
					

The EU and the US both classify the PFLP as a foreign terrorist organization. Barakat is a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, according to the Israeli government.




					m.jpost.com
				




BERLIN - The German government has issued a four-year travel ban against a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) who allegedly supports terrorism and Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state.

The Palestinian journalist and alleged PFLP terrorist Khaled Barakat, who is based in Canada, said in a webinar in late March that the German authorities imposed a “four-year ban on me entering Germany" because “I support [the Palestinians'] right to resist Israel, call for the liberation of Palestine from river to sea… that I support the Palestinian organization and they name it the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).”


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian incitement continues despite Israeli aid against pandemic*

*Hamas launched a rocket last week into Israel. Internally, if any popular or social unrest rises against Hamas due to economic woes or its handling of the coronavirus, it will be channeled very quickly by the terror organization towards Israel, possibly leading to a new round of clashes or even a broader conflict.*


In just the last month alone, Israel transferred millions of shekels to the Palestinian Authority and has facilitated the entry of thousands of Palestinian workers into Israel so they can work. It has expedited the transfer of equipment to the Gaza Strip to help fight the COVID-19 pandemic there.

Israeli Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon and his Palestinian counterpart, Shukri Bishara, met to discuss the economic impact of the coronavirus on Israel and the Palestinians, and Israeli President Reuven Rivlin spoke on the phone with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and the two agreed to cooperate on combating the pandemic.

So it was a slap in Israel's face when PA Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh not only falsely accused Israeli soldiers of trying to infect Palestinian civilians with the coronavirus, but also tweeted that "the real weakness in our battle against #Covid19 is the Israeli occupation and all its policies that attempt to thwart our efforts to protect our people. We don't accept Israeli guardianship over our measures. What is required is for Israel to leave us alone."

Michael Milstein, head of the Palestinian Studies Forum at the Moshe Dayan Center at Tel Aviv University, denied Shtayyeh's false claims and told JNS that "every Palestinian office and organization operates in full coordination with Israel."


So why is Shtayyeh inciting against the Jewish state at a time when he should be working towards bringing the two sides closer together?















						Palestinian incitement persists despite Israel's aid to fight pandemic
					

To divert attention from their gross mismanagement, Hamas launched a rocket into Israel, then, for personal political gain, the PA Prime Minister falsely accused the IDF of purposely infecting Palestinian civilians with the coronavirus. All that as Israel transferred millions of shekels, tons of med



					www.israelandstuff.com


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the Arabs-Moslems are using all forms of western innovated technology as a means to indoctrinate children into their murder / suicide death cult.

It’s really vile to use children as a disposable commodity but that’s common practice for Islamic terrorists.











						Animated video glorifying Palestinian terror attacks posted to TikTok
					

Palestinian Media Watch says clip on social media site popular with children is latest in a string of 'similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Animated video glorifying Palestinian terror attacks posted to Palestinian Media Watch says clip on social media site popular with children is latest in a string of ‘similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis’


----------



## Hollie

There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”. 










						PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’
					

Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.




					www.jns.org
				




*PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   Hollie,  et al,

*BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.



> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."






Hollie said:


> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK


*(COMMENT)*

Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.

But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:

The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
 State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)

_Declaration:_
       “[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*'At least 160 children died digging tunnels for Hamas'*
*Use of child labor not stopped by police in Gaza, where children's "nimble bodies" help dig the tunnels that lead into Israel and Egypt.*

Hamas used children to help them dig numerous tunnels into Israel and Egypt, a 2012 paper written for the Journal of Palestine Studies reported.

The paper, titled _Gaza's Tunnel Phenomenon: The Unintended Dynamics of Israel's Siege_ says that little had been done to stop the phenomenon of child labor during the digging of the tunnels by Hamas in Gaza.

In December 2011, the paper's author Nicolas Pelham accompanied a police patrol in Gaza and reported that "nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies."

He continued and said that "at least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials."





Palestinian youngsters in Gaza take part in a Hamas military training camp.
(photo credit: REUTERS)​








						'At least 160 children died digging tunnels for Hamas'
					

Use of child labor not stopped by police in Gaza, where children's "nimble bodies" help dig the tunnels that lead into Israel and Egypt.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...

Are you floating another conspiracy theory claiming that what is posted on Arab-Moslem run TV stations and other media is not theirs? 

If so, why would the Arabs-Moslems not object to depictions of their children being used as a disposable commodity?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you floating another conspiracy theory claiming that what is posted on Arab-Moslem run TV stations and other media is not theirs?
> 
> If so, why would the Arabs-Moslems not object to depictions of their children being used as a disposable commodity?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Not at all. You have to read their own link and what words they change.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you floating another conspiracy theory claiming that what is posted on Arab-Moslem run TV stations and other media is not theirs?
> 
> If so, why would the Arabs-Moslems not object to depictions of their children being used as a disposable commodity?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. You have to read their own link and what words they change.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

Why is it that Pal-Arabs vilify the west for “interfering” in their use/abuse and exploitation of children yet when they want our money, they come begging like an underpaid prostitute. Personally, I'm not terribly inclined to offer aid dollars to one who, on one hand, condemns me, attacks me, preaches hate towards me and places blame for their own self inflicted failures on me and then, on the other hand, demands money from me to bail them out, and then vilifies me for not offering yet more money.






*PMW to UNICEF: Stop ignoring PA recruitment of child soldiers/terrorists*
Feb 24, 2020        

Every year, the local branch of UNICEF (United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund) releases a biased report on “Children and Armed Conflict,” which routinely blames Israel for its treatment of Palestinian children combatants but ignores the fact that it is the Palestinian Authority who recruits the children into combat - in violation of international law.
To counter this bias, Palestinian Media Watch has sent an extensive and detailed report to UNICEF describing how the PA recruited child soldiers/terrorists, in 2019.
PMW's report shows how the PA *indoctrinates* Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel; to aspire to the destruction of Israel; *brainwashes* the Palestinian children to admire murderers; *weaponizes* the Palestinian children and* promotes* their participation in violence. The report further shows how the PA pays substantial *financial rewards* to the child terrorists. Damningly, PMW’s report also shows how the PA leadership openly admits that *the child terrorists are the PA’s soldiers.*

While UNICEF, overtly and covertly, collaborates with a host of Palestinian NGOs, who provide them with claims of alleged abuses of the rights of the Palestinian children by Israel, which UNICEF includes in its annual report, UNICEF does nothing to gather information about the PA or other Palestinian terror groups recruitment of children. This year PMW has done the work for UNICEF.

PMW’s full report can be read *here.*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you floating another conspiracy theory claiming that what is posted on Arab-Moslem run TV stations and other media is not theirs?
> 
> If so, why would the Arabs-Moslems not object to depictions of their children being used as a disposable commodity?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. You have to read their own link and what words they change.
Click to expand...


So instead of blowing air, give us an example.

But besides that, are you even capable of admitting that educating children to actively seek death through martyrdom as the highest goal in life is immoral? 

Or you just knowingly support that when its not your children?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore you don't think teaching children to seek martyrdom is evil?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Palestinians never use children, because.....propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I’m surprised the German government didn’t cave to the leftists/Islamists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany imposes four-year travel ban on senior Palestinian terrorist
> 
> 
> The EU and the US both classify the PFLP as a foreign terrorist organization. Barakat is a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, according to the Israeli government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BERLIN - The German government has issued a four-year travel ban against a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) who allegedly supports terrorism and Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state.
> 
> The Palestinian journalist and alleged PFLP terrorist Khaled Barakat, who is based in Canada, said in a webinar in late March that the German authorities imposed a “four-year ban on me entering Germany" because “I support [the Palestinians'] right to resist Israel, call for the liberation of Palestine from river to sea… that I support the Palestinian organization and they name it the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised the German government didn’t cave to the leftists/Islamists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany imposes four-year travel ban on senior Palestinian terrorist
> 
> 
> The EU and the US both classify the PFLP as a foreign terrorist organization. Barakat is a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, according to the Israeli government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BERLIN - The German government has issued a four-year travel ban against a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) who allegedly supports terrorism and Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state.
> 
> The Palestinian journalist and alleged PFLP terrorist Khaled Barakat, who is based in Canada, said in a webinar in late March that the German authorities imposed a “four-year ban on me entering Germany" because “I support [the Palestinians'] right to resist Israel, call for the liberation of Palestine from river to sea… that I support the Palestinian organization and they name it the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).”
Click to expand...


Truly, allah is akbar.


----------



## Hollie

Ah, Palestinian islamic terrorist television and print media ... It really does reign supreme in spreading lies about Jews, Israel, and America; not to mention broadcasting those spirited Friday sermons exhorting pious Moslems to go kill Jews! Oh, and the children's programming encouraging kids to become martyrs? It's to die for! Go check out Pal Media Watch



*PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019*
Jan 30, 2020 

PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019 | PMW Analysis 


*As US President Trump demanded “halting the financial compensation to terrorists” PA documents just publicized show the PA admits to paying 517.4 million shekels in salaries to terrorists in 2019, a rise of 15 million shekels compared to 2018.*

 
*Israeli government stipulated that the PA spent 150 million shekels on the payments to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorist “Martyrs” in 2018 *

 
*PMW has calculated that this figure has grown by at least 1.6 million shekels, in 2019*

 
*Accordingly, in 2020, the Israeli Government must deduct no less than 669 million shekels from the taxes Israel collects and transfer to the PA*
According to recently published Palestinian Authority financial reports, Palestinian Media Watch can expose that the PA has admitted to spending no less than 517.4 million shekels ($149.7 million/€136 million) paying salaries to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners in 2019.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I always wondered why the ICC never made mention of this kind of Government inspired violation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis*
> Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee" - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis. According to Fatah, since Israel has been an "occupier" since the day of its establishment "71 years" ago in 1948, Palestinian murder of any Israeli, adult or child is something "that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There’s something really creepy about Pal'istanians and their obsession with exploiting female children which they do “religiously”.
> *PA TV teaches kids to aspire to ‘martyrdom’*
> Palestinian children are being taught to “offer their blood” by P.A. TV programs, says Israel-based media watchdog.
> BY ITAMAR MARCUS AND NAN JACQUES ZILBERDIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes Hollie, I agree with your sentiment.
> 
> But what is more, intriguing is that the Arab Palestinians find it acceptable and morally righteous:
> 
> The *Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict* aims to protect children from recruitment and use in hostilities.​
> State of Palestine (Accession 7 APR 2014)
> 
> 
> _Declaration:_​“[…] in accordance with article 3(2) of the Optional Protocol, […] the minimum age for recruitment of persons into Palestine’s national armed forces is 18 years.”​
> 
> What we do know is that the Palestinian fragmented leadership is not really trustworthy in the use of children even after death as a means of propaganda.  The use of civilians overall _(including children)_ is standard practice.  Yet, no one says a word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More crapola from PMW an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you floating another conspiracy theory claiming that what is posted on Arab-Moslem run TV stations and other media is not theirs?
> 
> If so, why would the Arabs-Moslems not object to depictions of their children being used as a disposable commodity?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. You have to read their own link and what words they change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So instead of blowing air, give us an example.
> 
> But besides that, are you even capable of admitting that educating children to actively seek death through martyrdom as the highest goal in life is immoral?
> 
> Or you just knowingly support that when its not your children?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> P F Tinmore you don't think teaching children to seek martyrdom is evil?



So just to make sure we all know who and what we are dealing with here....
Not that it wasn't already beyond clear.

Did you guys notice?

P F Tinmore
fell silent, and worse even laughed(!)
when asked if teaching kids to seek martyrdom is immoral.

These are the Pali "supporters", this is the material...*pure evil.*


----------



## rylah

Indeependent look at this ^^^^

What did I tell You?
This is not insanity, this is Amalek.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are again marching out their female children, using them to screech out vulgarities with thinly veiled threats to war.

It’s just vile to abuse children like this but abuse of pre-teens has a long history in Arab-Moslem’dom. 





*Palestinian girl to Trump: "Brother of a whore, [if] you want war - we will declare war"*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 14, 2020


----------



## Hollie

Another of the primary means in the maintenance of totalitarianism is to create an external enemy. This allows the totalitarian oppressor a means to deflect their failures and inadequacies onto others. The PA (and Hamas) as the totalitarian oppressors have _The Zionist Entity_™️ as their external enemy. They now have coronavirus to use as an excuse to maintain their totalitarian oppression.












						PA: Israel is an agent of coronavirus
					

Israeli defense officials have reportedly sent a warning to the PA to stop the incitement.




					m.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian Authority on Monday stepped up its attacks on Israel in light of the outbreak of the coronavirus and again claimed that IDF soldiers were spitting in Palestinian communities in order to spread the disease.

“Israel is not exporting the virus to the Palestinians, but they are agents of this epidemic, which is called the occupation,” said PA government spokesman Ibrahim Milhem. “When they end this occupation, we will talk. We are not only making charges, these are facts.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 
⁜→   Hollie,  et al,



Hollie said:


> “Israel is not exporting the virus to the Palestinians, but they are agents of this epidemic, which is called the occupation,” said PA government spokesman Ibrahim Milhem. “When they end this occupation, we will talk. We are not only making charges, these are facts.”


*(COMMENT)*

IF they had something to talk about, THEN they would have made if known.  

But I don't see a period of peace and security where the Arab Palestinians demonstrate that they can establish before it is too late.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Linda Sarsour and Tamika Mallory Go After Alyssa Milano
					

Under a Facebook post by protester Alethea Shapiro, in which she shared a link to this story castigating Alyssa Milano for a supposed #metoo double standard, Women's March co-chairs Linda Sarsour and Tamika Mallory unleash




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied for Islamic terrorist wannabes.










						IDF arrests 3 armed suspects caught crossing Gaza border into Israel
					

Men found with knife and flammable materials, are questioned and sent back; Hamas member reportedly dies in accidental explosion




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*IDF arrests 3 armed suspects caught crossing Gaza border into Israel.
Men found with knife and flammable materials, are questioned and sent back; Hamas member reportedly dies in accidental explosion.*
Today, 2:01 am


----------



## Sixties Fan

Professional liar Saeb Erekat (@ErakatSaeb) falsely claims Israel isn't cooperating on COVID-19, steals aid for Palestinians, spurns "international conventions" on prisoner release. All LIES.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Coronavirus cooperation between Israel and the Palestinians was encouraging. But both the P.A. and Hamas have since reverted to their usual incitement against Jews.









						A pandemic anti-Semitism ceasefire? Not a chance
					

Coronavirus cooperation between Israel and the Palestinians was encouraging. But both the P.A. and Hamas have since reverted to their usual incitement against Jews.




					www.jns.org


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. This won’t sit well with Hamas or Iran. 










						Hamas slams Lebanese cartoon for ‘likening’ Palestinians to coronavirus
					

The portrait of the keffiyeh-clad man carries the date April 13, 1975, reference to the anniversary of the civil war in Lebanon.




					m.jpost.com
				




A cartoon published by the newspaper on April 15 to mark the 45th anniversary of the civil war in Lebanon features a portrait of a man whose face is covered with a keffiyeh headdress next to an image of the virus.


----------



## Hollie

There’s another islamic terrorist franchise in Gaza looking for some notoriety. This group is apparently connected to a Hamas official. 

Maybe another direct line to Iranian welfare money?






__





						Hamas-affiliated Humat al Aqsa promotes its joint military operations with Gaza’s militant groups | FDD's Long War Journal
					

Suspected of being established and funded by a senior Hamas leader, Humat al Aqsa acts as a proxy for Hamas to conduct military operations against Israel.



					www.longwarjournal.org
				




Humat al Aqsa (HAA), a Gaza-based group that has long been suspected of being founded, directed and funded by senior Hamas political leader Fathi Hamad, recently promoted joint military operations with militant groups in the Gaza Strip on its social networking platforms.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Does anyone expect that the Muslims will ever change their goal of destroying Israel? ]






The PA map of “Palestine” is formed by a group of people, and above it the Palestinian flag. To the right of the flag is a warning sign with a biohazard symbol and the word “Coronavirus” in English.









						Despite COVID-19 crisis, Fatah's message that all of Israel is "Palestine" is as strong as ever | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas’ Fatah Movement exploited the current Coronavirus crisis to pound home its message to Palestinians that all of Israel is “Palestine.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

The link below is a rather one-sided propaganda piece. Despite the title of the article, there are only cursory mentions of where Hamas is today. That’s probably because Hamas is the failed leadership of another failed Islamic terrorist enclave. 

What is missing is the article is any discussion of what Hamas has achieved since late 1987. There is not a single mention of any social, political or economic benefit that Hamas has procured. Absent, of course, is any mention of the personal wealth that has come to the Hamas leadership as they carry on the tradition of theft and corruption inherited from Arafat.

I’m not sure why this article was even posted as it depicts Hamas as little more than incompetent islamic terrorist thugs. 










						Where is Hamas today, 32 years after it was founded
					

Hamas released its first statement on 14 December 1987, just five days after the start of the first intifada. The intifada was triggered when an Israeli lorry driver ran over a number of Palestinian l...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com


----------



## Hollie

I get teary-eyed reading about _*The Plight of the Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians*_*™, *mostly because it’s difficult not to laugh at a comedy of errors perpetrated by buffoons.  

Everything from acts of Islamic terrorism to the Hamas managed “peaceful border riots”, has been one disaster after another.

Watching the Islamic terrorists is a bit like watching a Hollywood action flick car chase with sports cars racing out of control down the highway, careening off the guardrail, bumpers and fenders flying off, all to the accompaniment of screeching tires and loud thuds.










						Gaza's severe crises still unresolved approaching 2020
					

It was a very happy moment when the Palestinians knew that they would cast their votes in order to choose their representatives, after waiting a long time. They voted and unexpectedly, the Palestinian...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




Then, on 30 March 2018, the weekly demonstrations, dubbed the ‘Great March of Return’ and Breaking the Siege’ along the eastern side of the Gaza Strip, started and this added to the suffering of the Gazan residents due to the Israeli use of “lethal force” against “peaceful” protesters.

_Peaceful Protesters™️_


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah version of the Islamic terrorist propaganda machine is churning out the Facebook posts. This latest bit of islamo-variety show is another attempt to portray a mythical Pal’istan as a part of the Abbas mini caliphate. 



*Despite COVID-19 crisis, Fatah's message that all of Israel is "Palestine" is as strong as ever*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 16, 2020


----------



## Hollie

Sure, yeah, this should work out well. Maybe the PA can celebrate killing of IsraelI citizens on their Facebook page while the IsraelI bank loans are being deposited. 

Without accountability being required of the PA relative to distribution of the IsraelI money, this is just another opportunity for waste and mismanagement by corrupt Islamic terrorists,










						Israel loans PA money, FM warns against Palestinian COVID-19 crisis
					

Mladenov meets with Kahlon and Rivlin on aid to West Bank, Gaza




					m.jpost.com
				




Israel loaned money to the Palestinian Authority to help avert a COVID-19 economic and humanitarian crisis.

“The situation with [coronavirus] in the West Bank worries us all and could cause a humanitarian crisis,” Finance Minister Moshe Khalon (Likud) said on Thursday after he met with President Reuven Rivlin and UN Special Coordinator to the Middle East Peace Process Nickolay Mladenov.


----------



## Hollie

I guess there’s no need for the IsraelI welfare money.



Gaza Friday Sermon amid Coronavirus Pandemic: Islamic Rituals Such as Fasting, Ablution, Prayer Strengthen Our Immune Systems, Have Positive, Healing Energy


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ah, Palestinian islamic terrorist television and print media ... It really does reign supreme in spreading lies about Jews, Israel, and America; not to mention broadcasting those spirited Friday sermons exhorting pious Moslems to go kill Jews! Oh, and the children's programming encouraging kids to become martyrs? It's to die for! Go check out Pal Media Watch
> 
> 
> 
> *PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019*
> Jan 30, 2020
> 
> PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019 | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> *As US President Trump demanded “halting the financial compensation to terrorists” PA documents just publicized show the PA admits to paying 517.4 million shekels in salaries to terrorists in 2019, a rise of 15 million shekels compared to 2018.*
> 
> 
> *Israeli government stipulated that the PA spent 150 million shekels on the payments to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorist “Martyrs” in 2018 *
> 
> 
> *PMW has calculated that this figure has grown by at least 1.6 million shekels, in 2019*
> 
> 
> *Accordingly, in 2020, the Israeli Government must deduct no less than 669 million shekels from the taxes Israel collects and transfer to the PA*
> According to recently published Palestinian Authority financial reports, Palestinian Media Watch can expose that the PA has admitted to spending no less than 517.4 million shekels ($149.7 million/€136 million) paying salaries to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners in 2019.


I don't see "terrorists" on that list.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,  et al,

BLUF:  Oh_!_ --- How absurd...



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see "terrorists" on that list.


*(COMMENT)*

If you are not going to address the issue with something that contributes to the discussion, don't feel obligated to make these ridiculous comments.
 





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Oh_!_ --- How absurd...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see "terrorists" on that list.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you are not going to address the issue with something that contributes to the discussion, don't feel obligated to make these ridiculous comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What is ridiculous? The propagandists said terrorists, the list did not.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,  et al,

BLUF:  Oh_!_ --- How absurd...  Yet - Again...  Playing (as if) you don't understand the budget line.

Make a contribution -- why don't you.



P F Tinmore said:


> What is ridiculous? The propagandists said terrorists, the list did not.


 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, Palestinian islamic terrorist television and print media ... It really does reign supreme in spreading lies about Jews, Israel, and America; not to mention broadcasting those spirited Friday sermons exhorting pious Moslems to go kill Jews! Oh, and the children's programming encouraging kids to become martyrs? It's to die for! Go check out Pal Media Watch
> 
> 
> 
> *PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019*
> Jan 30, 2020
> 
> PMW exclusive: PA gave 517.4 million shekels to terrorists as salaries in 2019 | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> *As US President Trump demanded “halting the financial compensation to terrorists” PA documents just publicized show the PA admits to paying 517.4 million shekels in salaries to terrorists in 2019, a rise of 15 million shekels compared to 2018.*
> 
> *Israeli government stipulated that the PA spent 150 million shekels on the payments to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorist “Martyrs” in 2018 *
> 
> *PMW has calculated that this figure has grown by at least 1.6 million shekels, in 2019*
> 
> *Accordingly, in 2020, the Israeli Government must deduct no less than 669 million shekels from the taxes Israel collects and transfer to the PA*
> According to recently published Palestinian Authority financial reports, Palestinian Media Watch can expose that the PA has admitted to spending no less than 517.4 million shekels ($149.7 million/€136 million) paying salaries to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see "terrorists" on that list.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

In the midst of begging the international community for welfare money, the PA decided this would be a good time for another sing-along wherein they threaten to use their disposable children as martyrdom devices.

Lovely folks. If we give them more money, will they incrementally  kill more of their children?


*Coronavirus can stop economies but not PA hate - PA continues terror and Martyrdom promotion*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 17, 2020







*No force in the world can remove the weapon from my hand” *
*“Palestine is etched on the heart of the fetus, a proud Martyr in his mother’s womb”*
*“We have watered this land with blood for you, my country, Make sounds of joy, O mother of the Martyr” *
*Palestine – “I will redeem you with my children”*


----------



## Hollie

As you might have expected, a Pal writer has developed a rather broad, sweeping, (and bizarre), conspiracy theory about the _Great Satan_™️and Wuhan virus.

*








						Palestinian Writers: The Coronavirus Is A Biological Weapon Employed By U.S., Israel Against Their Enemies
					

The coronavirus outbreak has been accompanied by the circulation of many conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus, which were published, inter alia, in the Arab media and




					www.memri.org
				



*
Arabs-Moslems do seem to be rather conspiracy theory addled. That is a problem when reasoned, rational discourse is dissolved in favor of loopy conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

This storyline is still circulating on some news sites but it strikes me as absurd that Arabs-Moslems would expect western style personal freedoms in an Islamic terrorist mini-caliphate. 

Totalitarianism is the opposite of liberal democracy and totalitarianism survives by limits on personal freedoms. 









						Arrest of Gazans by Hamas for Zoom chat with Israelis sparks free speech row
					

Former Amnesty International researcher defends tagging Hamas officials in post criticizing activists for 'normalization,' denies responsibility for arrests but doesn't oppose them




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




A fierce dispute has divided the Palestinian community after Gaza’s rulers, Hamas, arrested six local activists for chatting by video conference with left-leaning campaigners in Israel.

The Islamist terror group Hamas bans all communications with Israel and last week arrested the six members of the Gaza Youth Committee on charges of “treason” and “normalization” of relations with the Jewish state.


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the Corona pandemic is interfering with daily life and challenging economies around the globe, one sphere is unaffected. The Palestinian Authority is not letting the virus obstruct its obsessive promotion of violence and terror to Palestinians. The following are songs broadcast during the crisis that encourage continued terror, promote Martyrdom-death for children, and congratulate mothers on the dying of their sons as “Martyrs.” Several of them are songs that have been exposed in the past by Palestinian Media Watch:

(full article online)









						Coronavirus can stop economies but not PA hate - PA continues terror and Martyrdom promotion | PMW Analysis
					

Songs on PA media promote violence and Martyrdom.




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Oh_!_ --- How absurd...  Yet - Again...  Playing (as if) you don't understand the budget line.
> 
> Make a contribution -- why don't you.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is ridiculous? The propagandists said terrorists, the list did not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Its not my fault that the propagandists lie.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Oh_!_ --- How absurd...  Yet - Again...  Playing (as if) you don't understand the budget line.
> 
> Make a contribution -- why don't you.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is ridiculous? The propagandists said terrorists, the list did not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not my fault that the propagandists lie.
Click to expand...


You made no case for propagandists or lies, just a case for your hurt feelings. Your hurt feelings are not the issue, here.


----------



## Hollie

The pompous bluster from Yahya Sinwar a few days ago has disappeared, as has Yahya. I tend to think that while the Pals get a few minutes of "feel good" from this nonsense, after the first round of islamo-high fives to celebrate the hoped for Jew killing, a small measure of reality sets in and they're forced to confront (and then deny), the reality that killing Jews and commandeering ventilators is not the gee-had that Yahya is going to lead.  














						Hamas: A New Pretext to Attack Israel
					

Since 2014, Hamas has invested about $120 million in the terror tunnels. According to various estimates, a terror tunnel costs anywhere from three to 10 million US dollars -- depending on its length a




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The leaders of Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist group that has been controlling the Gaza Strip since 2007, say they are worried about the shortage of medical ventilators during the outbreak of the coronavirus pandemic.

These Hamas leaders, who have done virtually nothing to provide basic healthcare in the Gaza Strip, are now trying to hold Israel responsible for the shortage of ventilators in Palestinian hospitals.

Hamas leaders are, in fact, threatening to use terrorism to force Israel to provide the Gaza Strip with ventilators.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* Speaking in terms of the contributors that you claim "lie" • there is nothing nefarious or suspicious in the commentary presented here; in general. The content is generally positive and was predominantly sound and valid. It is that of the “progressives" views of the contemporary struggles, armed resistance, and jihad that created the adversarial framework of "pro-Israeli" 'vs' "pro-Arab Palestinian" that we observe today.



P F Tinmore said:


> Its not my fault that the propagandists lie.


*(COMMENT)*

Within the existing framework, "Commission of Detainee Affairs" is a euphemism for those that Mahmoud Abbas _(Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization)_ has pledged to continue paying salaries to convicted terrorists and their families. Around 5,500 convicted terrorists are receiving monthly salaries, ranging from £230 to as much as £2,000 for those with longer prison sentences.

This practice for decades, but the "*PA chairman lets slip in meeting with Norwegian FM that he violated a 2014 pledge to stop the practice*."

From time to time, within the framework of the banter to and fro, the pro-Israelis that comment, suggest or imply facts, not in evidence and are wrong,  But this in mothing like the misinformation (_false or inaccurate comments which are deliberately intended to be deceptive)  _that you and other pro-Arab Palestinians inject.

You overuse the term "lie;"  as opposed to specific comments that could not be construed in a heterodox manner about the conflict.

 OK, so I'm off the Bandwagon.      




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The family also claimed that a doctor had delivered and taken care of the baby, with a letter in English. When the US officials called the doctor, he said he doesn't speak English, and through a translator he said he did not deliver the baby nor had he ever treated her. He was called to their house after the baby was already born, it is unclear if he ever saw her.

Moreover, the family claimed that they could not submit the baby to a DNA test or provide photos of Pomm while pregnant because of their religious beliefs.  I can find no evidence that Muslim law disallows either DNA testing or showing photographs of a pregnant woman.

After the US denied the attempt to give the baby a US passport, Mohammed Sabra sued, and this lawsuit was dismissed in light of the evidence.

What makes this more interesting is that it appears that it was quite easy for the Sabras to obtain Palestinian Authority stamps and documentation for what is probably a fictional baby.

(full article online)









						A US citizen in Gaza tries to scam the US to give his fake kid a passport
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

This particular group says that the prisoners must be freed "for public health."

They care so much about the health and safety of the people! Except for the hundreds of Jews who were murdered by these terrorists. Their health and safety aren't on the radar of these supposed humanitarians.

Out of the 4500 current Palestinian prisoners, over 500 of them are serving life terms. Life terms are only given to those who were found guilty of murder of Israelis, directly or by directing terror attacks by others.

(Full article online)









						Today, people are demanding that Israel release terrorists to be free to kill Jews again
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian "human rights" group posts a blood libel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Small but symbolic: US pledges $5 million to help Palestinians cope with virus
					

After having previously cut all funding, Trump administration offers West Bank hospitals and households aid for 'immediate, life-saving needs'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




“We are providing $5 million to fund COVID-19 response in support of immediate, life-saving needs for Palestinian hospitals and households in the West Bank for Palestinians battling the COVID-19 pandemic,” an official at the US Embassy in Jerusalem told The Times of Israel.


Oh, my. Those evil, _islamophobic_™️, maybe even _racist_™️ Trump administration officials are again interfering in Arab-Moslem affairs. Let’s hope Mahmoud will honor his commitments.









						Palestine president says he will cease accepting US aid
					

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Palestine will not accept US foreign aid after Thursday for fear of potential US legal consequences per Congress' Anti-Terrorism Clarification Act (ATCA) of 20...




					www.jurist.org
				




Mo’ money, Mo’ money. Take the money, Mahmoud. Use it for your investment portfolio.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   Hollie, et al,

I'm a bit confused...



Hollie said:


> Palestine president says he will cease accepting US aid
> 
> 
> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Palestine will not accept US foreign aid after Thursday for fear of potential US legal consequences per Congress' Anti-Terrorism Clarification Act (ATCA) of 20...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jurist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mo’ money, Mo’ money. Take the money, Mahmoud. Use it for your investment portfolio.


*(QUESTION)*

Why would we even bother to consider this?
​From the Article:​"Congress must amend ATCA by Thursday or keep it from taking effect on Friday if it wishes to continue providing aid to Palestine."​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what consideration have they given America?​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what effort has the Arab Palestinian Leaders given towards a realistic peace?​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what cooperation have the Arab Palestinian Leaders given towards the status of negotiations?​
The question becomes, what advantage do US Aid of any sort contribute to either Regional stability and peace, or that of America?   Congress should not take another step towards aid to the Palestinians until such time as the Arab Palestinians make meaningful and fruitful progress towards peace.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Picaro

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
Click to expand...


Most of the anti-Christian writings from Jewish fanatics are based in the post-exilic writings and attempts to limit Judaism to an insular hard core racist cult.  Most Zionism in the past came from secular Jews, circa 18th century and later, and for the most part isn't based on religion, I think of the 7 main modern groups of Zionists only one or two has a religious base, unless you count the Christian Evangelicals as a Jewish religious sect, which I personally do, then you have three maybe. The rest are secular; the majority of Jewish people these days are atheist or agnostic. The original Aliyahs came from Russia, and were an Ottoman idea to invite them back, not some foreign invasion silliness invented by by the racist butcher Kemal, who liked to murder almost everybody as a 'solution' to his political problems, much like Communists do whenever they run into 'problems'. Same type of cults, Islamists and Communists, just different rhetoric is all, distinctions without a difference. There are far fewer crazy ass Rabbis than there are lunatic Islamists in their respective population demographics, though there is a disturbing rise in right wing crazies in Israel proper, which doesn't bode well, since the Israelis are now letting them into the IDF, a recent development they really should think over more thoroughly.

It's about having a homeland where they can escape to, mostly, and they should have one, despite the whinings of assorted genocidal savages and bandit cultists. In case, while a minority of Jews are Orthodox or 'ultra-Orthodox' racists, they aren't the majority, and at worst are still a far better group of people than the average Islamist, so guess who 'wins' the 'moral authority' semantics game? ...


----------



## Picaro

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Jews are not killing Christians in the Middle East as we speak.



Well, not since they started ending up on the losing end of that fight, anyway.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie, et al,
> 
> I'm a bit confused...
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine president says he will cease accepting US aid
> 
> 
> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Palestine will not accept US foreign aid after Thursday for fear of potential US legal consequences per Congress' Anti-Terrorism Clarification Act (ATCA) of 20...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jurist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mo’ money, Mo’ money. Take the money, Mahmoud. Use it for your investment portfolio.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Why would we even bother to consider this?
> ​From the Article:​"Congress must amend ATCA by Thursday or keep it from taking effect on Friday if it wishes to continue providing aid to Palestine."​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what consideration have they given America?​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what effort has the Arab Palestinian Leaders given towards a realistic peace?​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what cooperation have the Arab Palestinian Leaders given towards the status of negotiations?​
> The question becomes, what advantage do US Aid of any sort contribute to either Regional stability and peace, or that of America?   Congress should not take another step towards aid to the Palestinians until such time as the Arab Palestinians make meaningful and fruitful progress towards peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


My weak attempt at being facetious in the earlier post reflected a FPM (Face Palm Moment) episode. I can’t think of a rational reason to shower the PA with millions of dollars when, based on the information available in the article, there is no requirement for accountability on the part of the PA for the distribution of that money. In addition to your point about benefit to the U.S. for the aid money, I’m left with the unpleasant thought that amidst the hate and vitriol projected at us by the Palestinians, the aid money is viewed as little more than rewarding their behavior and the PA faces no negative consequences for their actions.


----------



## Picaro

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie, et al,
> 
> I'm a bit confused...
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine president says he will cease accepting US aid
> 
> 
> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Palestine will not accept US foreign aid after Thursday for fear of potential US legal consequences per Congress' Anti-Terrorism Clarification Act (ATCA) of 20...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jurist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mo’ money, Mo’ money. Take the money, Mahmoud. Use it for your investment portfolio.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Why would we even bother to consider this?
> ​From the Article:​"Congress must amend ATCA by Thursday or keep it from taking effect on Friday if it wishes to continue providing aid to Palestine."​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what consideration have they given America?​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what effort has the Arab Palestinian Leaders given towards a realistic peace?​​◈  However much aid we have given the Palestinians, what cooperation have the Arab Palestinian Leaders given towards the status of negotiations?​
> The question becomes, what advantage do US Aid of any sort contribute to either Regional stability and peace, or that of America?   Congress should not take another step towards aid to the Palestinians until such time as the Arab Palestinians make meaningful and fruitful progress towards peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


In their view the money is just another successful extortion. There is nothing in 'meaningful and fruitful progress' for the Pali gangster leadership as long as the aid keeps coming. That's not where the money is for them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas authorities have arrested seven Gaza residents for participating in a videoconference with peace campaigners in Israel.

The arrests, which Hamas confirmed and defended as rooted in national security, have triggered a debate in Palestinian Authority and Gazan Arab society over free speech, and prompted multiple condemnations.

Hamas, which runs Gaza, bans many forms of communications with Israel and what it calls the “normalization” of relations with the Jewish state.

“We absolutely condemn arrests of individuals because of practicing their right to peaceful expression and assembly,” Saleh Hijazi, the Amnesty International human rights group’s deputy director for the Middle East, told the London-based _Asharq al-Awsat _newspaper.

Rami Aman, 36, the founder of the Gaza Youth Committee, and the six others were accused of treason after speaking on Zoom to the dozens of Israeli activists last week, the newspaper reported Tuesday. The participants discussed their daily lives and expressed hopes for better leadership for both Israelis and PA and Gazan Arabs.

(full article online)









						Hamas arrests 7 Gazans for videoconference with Israeli peace activists
					

Former Amnesty International activist plays key role in arrest of Gazans who committed the 'crime' of speaking to Israeli peace activists.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The group added that UNRWA’s failure is a “clear indication of its indifference and contempt towards the Palestinian refugees suffering from poverty, hunger, and disease, particularly since the UNRWA administration has not yet seriously dealt with the coronavirus pandemic.”

Munir al-Maqdah, a senior official with the Palestinian Fatah faction in Lebanon, accused UNRWA of “evading its responsibilities” and said he did not understand why the agency was not sending specialized teams to the Palestinian refugee camps to help their residents prepare for the outbreak of the virus. “We are facing an imminent threat, and if the virus spreads there will be a real catastrophe [in the refugee camps],” al-Maqdah warned.

(full article online)









						Palestinians: Don’t Believe UNRWA, They Are Not Helping
					

Those considering donating to UNRWA ought first to listen to the voices of the leaders of the Palestinians in Lebanon who are accusing the UN agency of negligence and failing to fulfill its promises t




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Hollie

From the Islamic terrorist enclave occupied by Hamas are the usual threats and accusations. 

Among the greatest difficulties faced by Israel is having to maneuver around the child-like mentality of political / social misfits who see their pompous demands as an entitlement that others are expected to recognize. 











						Hamas official says Israel will be to blame if Gaza sees virus outbreak
					

Deputy leader of terror group says medical supplies needed in Palestinian enclave, where there have been 13 reported COVID-19 cases




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




The Hamas terror group warned Sunday that Israel will be responsible for the consequences unless more medical equipment for dealing with the coronavirus is brought into the Gaza Strip.

“Israel will be the one that bears responsibility for an outbreak of the virus in the Gaza Strip; and therefore it must make it easier for shipments of aid to arrive and it is the one who needs to send these medical means,” said Khalil al-Hayya, the deputy Hamas leader in Gaza, according to the Ynet news site.


----------



## Hollie

An IsraelI official scolded Mahmoud as a petulant child. The Islamic terrorist franchise occupying the West Bank was playing upon their Nazi heritage and it caused Security Minister Gilad Erdan to give them a timeout.










						Fatah removes Nazi themed caricature after being slammed by Erdan
					

Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan slammed Palestinian Authority President on Tuesday for saying he wants peace, called him “two faced liar.”




					m.jpost.com
				




Fatah removed a Nazi-themed cartoon hours after being slammed by Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan on Tuesday, the pro-Israeli group 'DigiTell nework' reported on Wednesday. 

Erdan slammed Palestinian Authority President Mahmmoud Abbas on Tuesday for claiming in the UN he extends his hand in peace to Israel. 

While the Holocaust-denier Abu Mazen claimed that he is interested in peace today at the UN, look what his own Fatah Party shared on its Twitter account! His Jew-hatred and bigotry is a disgusting reminder of what a two-faced liar he is! #Saynotohate#


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rutgers University Student Leader Foments Anti-Semitism Online | United with Israel
					

The vice president of Rutgers University's student government was recently exposed for posting anti-Israel and anti-Semitic content on social media.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas replaces their normal masks with medical masks
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the Islamic terrorists are demanding medical equipment from Israel or they will get the gee-had rolling.

It seems the Islamic terrorists want advanced equipment as an entitlement. 




Israel does not ban the transfer of medical equipment to Gaza, and has facilitated the passage of thousands of testing kits and masks. Israel’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories regularly posts details of such transfers.




Palestinians burn tires to throw over the Gaza border into Israel on May 4, 2018. Photo: Wikimedia Commons.

As fears rise of a major coronavirus outbreak in Gaza, a senior Hamas official threatened violence against Israel if the terrorist group does not receive the equipment it wants to tackle the pandemic, Israel’s Channel 13 reported on Sunday.

“We are keeping the option of using ‘other tools’ if we fail to make Israel comply with our demands to receive medical equipment that will enable us to deal with the coronavirus crisis,” said Khalil al-Hayya on Sunday.









						Hamas Threatens Violence if Israel Doesn’t Meet Demands for Advanced Coronavirus Equipment
					

Palestinians burn tires to throw over the Gaza border into Israel on May 4, 2018. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. As fears …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

Well, hell. How good do I feel that the _Great Satan_™️ just pledged $5 million dollars to finance Islamic terrorists. 










						Sources: Hamas Involved in Embezzlement of Donations Meant for Gaza’s Residents
					

Residents of the Gaza Strip are complaining that donations collected on their behalf in Arab countries are not reaching them, and even as the economic hardship in the Strip intensifies Hamas is not tr




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Residents of the Gaza Strip are complaining that donations collected on their behalf in Arab countries are not reaching them, and even as the economic hardship in the Strip intensifies Hamas is not transferring budgets from its funds to deal with the Coronavirus (COVID-19) crisis.

Sources in the Gaza Strip say that in recent days, following the Corona crisis and the deteriorating situation in the Gaza Strip, there has been severe criticism of Hamas after disclosures of its corruption and embezzlement of donations for those in need, as well as over the fact that Hamas has not thawed its own budgets in favor of the civilian systems in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Those _Poor, Oppressed Pal’istanians ™️_










						Coronavirus: Hamas chastised after Palestinians flock to new shopping mall
					

Several Palestinians criticized Hamas for permitting the mall to open without taking precautionary measures to prevent the spread of the virus.




					m.jpost.com
				




And then we have this:









						Hamas official says Israel will be to blame if Gaza sees virus outbreak
					

Deputy leader of terror group says medical supplies needed in Palestinian enclave, where there have been 13 reported COVID-19 cases




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

More Palestinian men are beating their wives while stuck at home for COVID-19
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com
				





			http://lacs.ps/documentsShow.aspx?ATT_ID=45121


----------



## Sixties Fan

The incomparable Imshin shows more of life in Gaza nowadays, and it sure seems more normal than life in the US.



> Imshin@imshin
> 
> And here is a video of the grand opening of the new Al-Danaf Hyper Mall (Meat City) in Nusseirat, made by 2 teenage #Gaza YouTubers, Saja & Sujud. Upload date 15 April 2020. #TheGazaYouDontSee
> Source: https://youtu.be/E0jbG9DFGJs  https://twitter.com/imshin/status/1250686568039362560 …
> 
> 
> 
> Imshin@imshin
> More good news from #Gaza! Meat City opened its much-awaited mega branch in Nusseirat "refugee" Camp, called Hyper Mall. They are marketing it as the biggest supermarket in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian actor and comedian Mahmoud Zuaiter was at the grand opening.#TheGazaYouDontSee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16
> 7:59 AM - Apr 16, 2020
> Twitter Ads info and privacy







> Imshin@imshin
> 
> Nedaa takes Adam and Yazan out in #Gaza to buy new clothes for Ramadan. #TheGazaYouDontSee
> Source: https://youtu.be/OZWHbnIBi1w
> 
> 
> 
> 43
> 7:36 AM - Apr 19, 2020
> Twitter Ads info and privacy






> Imshin@imshin
> 
> Going to AlSaj restaurant in #Gaza City for lunch. #TheGazaYouDontSee
> Uploaded to YouTube on 18 April 2020.
> 1
> Source: https://youtu.be/_hGRRi1FwL4  https://twitter.com/imshin/status/1222028385603461121 …
> 
> 
> 
> Imshin@imshin
> AlSaj fast food restaurant #Gaza City. #TheGazaYouDontSeehttps://m.facebook.com/alsaj.gaza/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7
> 3:06 AM - Apr 20, 2020
> 
> 
> What about life in the "refugee camps"? Well, you can buy this apartment in the Jabalia camp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imshin@imshin
> 
> Apartment for sale in Jabalia "refugee" Camp #Gaza#TheGazaYouDontSee
> Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1652577485032872?view=permalink&id=2388695254754421&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_highlights …
> 
> 
> 
> 11
> 2:15 AM - Apr 16, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the sort of thing that journalists seem to miss - every day of every year.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life is normal in Gaza during the worldwide pandemic
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Embezzles Humanitarian Aid to Gaza Amid COVID-19 Crisis | United with Israel
					

Khalil Al-Haya, a member of Hamas’ political bureau, says the solution to Gaza's humanitarian crisis is to threaten Israel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Fumes Over Saudi TV Show on Jews in the Mideast | United with Israel
					

New drama show on Arab network MBC gets furious reactions from Arabs who say any portrayal of Jews is a capitulation to Zionism.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Numerous expressions of Nazi sympathies by Palestinian leadership have been documented and exposed over the years, with the admiration of Adolf Hitler being a key part of Palestinian Holocaust denial and distortion.

Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), a watchdog which monitors Palestinian media and incitement and has a massive file on the subject, noted that some expressions of sympathy are blatant, while others are more subliminal.

For instance, senior Fatah official Tawfik Tirawi previously stated in a TV interview that “Hitler was not morally corrupt. He was daring.” Tirawi’s approach even offended the Palestinian interviewer who chose to quickly change the topic.

Fatah is Palestinian Authority (PA) Head Mahmoud Abbas’ political party.

*Palestinian Schools Honor Nazis*
Similarly, the Palestinians have named three schools after Nazi collaborators, as well as after terrorists including murderers such as Dalal Mughrabi. One school was a named after Nazi collaborator and war criminal Amin Al-Husseini and two others were named after Nazi collaborator Hassan Salameh.

Amin Al-Husseini was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem at the time of the British Mandate. During World War II he moved to Berlin, where he collaborated with the Nazis and was an associate of Hitler. Al-Husseini was responsible for a Muslim SS division that murdered thousands of Serbs and Croats and was on Yugoslavia’s list of wanted Nazi war criminals. When the Nazis offered to free 5,000 Jewish children, Al-Husseini fought against their release which caused 5,000 children to be sent to the gas chambers.

Hassan Salameh was a leader of Arab gangs in the Lod and Jaffa region in the 1930s and 1940s. He was a loyal follower of Amin Al-Husseini. In 1941, Salameh was recruited to be a Nazi agent, and in 1944, he was sent on a mission by the Nazis in the British Mandate Palestine, with the goal of starting an Arab revolt against the British and poisoning Tel Aviv’s water sources. The plot was discovered and thwarted by the British. In 1947, Salameh was appointed by Al-Husseini as Deputy Commander of the Holy Jihad Army that fought Israel in the 1948 War of Independence.

“Obviously, schools are named after people who the PA Ministry of Education sees as role models and aspires for the students to emulate,” PMW underscored.

(full article online)









						'Hitler was Daring': How the Palestinians Revere the Nazis | United with Israel
					

The Palestinians idolize the Nazis, sympathize with them and ensure that the next generation is raised on these repugnant notions.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

PMW warning letter to Palestinian banks: Stop allowing salaries to be transferred to terrorists or face dire consequences | PMW Analysis
					

PMW has continued to put pressure on governments to combat the phenomenon of salaries to terrorists.




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

BLUF:  This is a more pointed directive than the * 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.*



Sixties Fan said:


> PMW warning letter to Palestinian banks: Stop allowing salaries to be transferred to terrorists or face dire consequences | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PMW has continued to put pressure on governments to combat the phenomenon of salaries to terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


*(COMMENT)*

The new Amendment to the Order for Security Provisions is not as complicated as the 1999 International Convention.  

*∑ 2020 Amendment #67*

Prohibits any transaction with assets, including money, in order to facilitate, further, fund, or reward a person for carrying out terror-related offenses,​
*∑ 1999 Convention
*
◈  Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;​​◈  Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and​​◈  Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.​
I think the Israeli Defense Force Order is much more clear and to the point - unambiguous.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Saudia Arabia is apparently not looking to accommodate the Shia sympathizers occupying Gaza. With Iran backing both the Yemeni Houthi and Hamas, the KSA sees multiple direct threats. 










						Arabic press review: Hamas says detainee mediation with Saudi Arabia fruitless
					

Meanwhile, Kuwait to expel 250,000 expats, coronavirus corruption in Riyadh and an 'offensive' TV presenter




					www.middleeasteye.net
				





Qassem, a spokesman for Hamas, has revealed that the Palestinian group has spoken to a number of mediators to intervene and end the plight of Palestinian detainees (Plight of Palestinian Detainees™️,_ed_.) in Saudi Arabia, but that the discussions have not produced any positive results, according to the London-based newspaper Al-Arabi Al-Jadeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is a more pointed directive than the * 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.*
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW warning letter to Palestinian banks: Stop allowing salaries to be transferred to terrorists or face dire consequences | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PMW has continued to put pressure on governments to combat the phenomenon of salaries to terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The new Amendment to the Order for Security Provisions is not as complicated as the 1999 International Convention.
> 
> *∑ 2020 Amendment #67*
> 
> Prohibits any transaction with assets, including money, in order to facilitate, further, fund, or reward a person for carrying out terror-related offenses,​
> *∑ 1999 Convention*
> 
> ◈  Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;​​◈  Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and​​◈  Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.​
> I think the Israeli Defense Force Order is much more clear and to the point - unambiguous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Who determines what is terrorism?

Israel?

Israel's kangaroo courts?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Try Article 1 of the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*



P F Tinmore said:


> Who determines what is terrorism?
> 
> Israel?
> 
> Israel's kangaroo courts?


*(COMMENT)*

The concepts behind the definition of terrorism began long before the 1948 Creation of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

The International Conventions and Protocols on terrorism have undergone a continuous refinement since the "Kristallnacht."  But terrorist groups such as the Palestinian Black Hand have been around since before the Convention was written.

There are currently 19 international legal conventions pertaining to various acts of terrorism, several of which were written in direct response to acts of Hostile Arab Palestinians. On 23 July 1968 the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) hijacked El Al flight 426 (Rome to Tel Aviv).  And in September 1970, the PFLP to had plans to commandeer five planes, four bound for New York and one for London.  Three of the five attempts were successful.  Before the year was out, the *Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft* was put in force.

This quibbling over the definition of terrorism is just a Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) attempt to confuse the issue.  Up and until the events of 911, the poster board image of a terrorist was the HoAP.  And with all the attention the various Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, Arab Extremist, and Asymmetric Fighters there is an uneasiness about the Arab World in general and Muslims in character.   We should be afraid of them.  Intellectually we know that we should not stereotype them the Arab or Muslim world _(whichever scares people the most)_.  But for many people, there is still that twinge anxiety.  And that is the fear that terrorism brings.  It's hard to define, but it is the stupid person who would deny it is there.

Israel's kangaroo courts?   There is no question in my mind that any reasonably educated Israeli can make a list of 10 surprisingly scary HoAP terrorist events that have happened sing 2014.  They don't need to be explained by a pro-HoAP advocate of what the relationship is between terrorism and fear.  While they don't like to use the word "fear."  They still reach for their hip the same as I do at the sound of gunfire or HE.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Try Article 1 of the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who determines what is terrorism?
> 
> Israel?
> 
> Israel's kangaroo courts?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The concepts behind the definition of terrorism began long before the 1948 Creation of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.
> 
> The International Conventions and Protocols on terrorism have undergone a continuous refinement since the "Kristallnacht."  But terrorist groups such as the Palestinian Black Hand have been around since before the Convention was written.
> 
> There are currently 19 international legal conventions pertaining to various acts of terrorism, several of which were written in direct response to acts of Hostile Arab Palestinians. On 23 July 1968 the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) hijacked El Al flight 426 (Rome to Tel Aviv).  And in September 1970, the PFLP to had plans to commandeer five planes, four bound for New York and one for London.  Three of the five attempts were successful.  Before the year was out, the *Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft* was put in force.
> 
> This quibbling over the definition of terrorism is just a Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) attempt to confuse the issue.  Up and until the events of 911, the poster board image of a terrorist was the HoAP.  And with all the attention the various Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, Arab Extremist, and Asymmetric Fighters there is an uneasiness about the Arab World in general and Muslims in character.   We should be afraid of them.  Intellectually we know that we should not stereotype them the Arab or Muslim world _(whichever scares people the most)_.  But for many people, there is still that twinge anxiety.  And that is the fear that terrorism brings.  It's hard to define, but it is the stupid person who would deny it is there.
> 
> Israel's kangaroo courts?   There is no question in my mind that any reasonably educated Israeli can make a list of 10 surprisingly scary HoAP terrorist events that have happened sing 2014.  They don't need to be explained by a pro-HoAP advocate of what the relationship is between terrorism and fear.  While they don't like to use the word "fear."  They still reach for their hip the same as I do at the sound of gunfire or HE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Did you major in name calling at university?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

What kind of answer is this?

*BLUF:* Try Article 1 of the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*



P F Tinmore said:


> Did you major in name calling at university?


*(COMMENT)*

Wow...  Is this even a remotely intelligent response given that I provided evidence that is in the historical record?





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What kind of answer is this?
> 
> *BLUF:* Try Article 1 of the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you major in name calling at university?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wow...  Is this even a remotely intelligent response given that I provided evidence that is in the historical record?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Terrorism and all that other name calling comes straight out of Israel. Except for political posturing, there is no reason for any other country to jump on that bandwagon.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What kind of answer is this?
> 
> *BLUF:* Try Article 1 of the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you major in name calling at university?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wow...  Is this even a remotely intelligent response given that I provided evidence that is in the historical record?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorism and all that other name calling comes straight out of Israel. Except for political posturing, there is no reason for any other country to jump on that bandwagon.
Click to expand...

What name other than Islamic terrorism should be used for acts of Islamic terrorism?


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems aren’t going to let a communicable disease interrupt their program of religiously inspired hate. 

Their collective hate / self-hate can still meet the collective goal using kafir technology. 










						Online lessons for Palestinian children still teaching hate
					

A lesson on Newtonian physics used the Palestinian fighters using slingshots to target IDF soldiers as an example of elastic energy.




					m.jpost.com
				




Children in schools run by the Palestinian Authority are continuing to be indoctrinated with antisemitic hatred through educational materials, even while studying at home during the coronavirus lockdown. 

IMPACT, a research, policy and advocacy organization that monitors and analyzes education, has uncovered  content inciting children to violence in a range of online materials, including YouTube videos and online lessons.


----------



## Hollie

I know you will find this as shocking as I did. The Pals are floating loopy conspiracy theories about the origin / purpose of the ChiCom virus. 










						Palestinian Writers: The Coronavirus Is A Biological Weapon Employed By U.S., Israel Against Their Enemies
					

The coronavirus outbreak has been accompanied by the circulation of many conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus, which were published, inter alia, in the Arab media and




					www.memri.org
				




_The coronavirus outbreak has been accompanied by the circulation of many conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus, which were published, inter alia, in the Arab media and especially in the Palestinian media.*[1]* While Palestinian Authority (PA) government spokesman Ibrahim Milhem said that the PA is taking measures against the virus in coordination and collaboration with Israel,*[2]* some in the Palestinian media accused Israel and the U.S. of spreading the coronavirus in the world for various reasons: in order to weaken China and Iran, to help Trump's reelection campaign and/or to facilitate Israel's takeover of the region. 

The following are excerpts from three such articles:  _





Cartoon in PA daily: The coronavirus in the form of an Israeli tank pursuing a Palestinian carrying an infant (_Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 16, 2020)


----------



## Hollie

Sacrificial Arab-Moslem yutes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
Specifically:  Posting #16,328    HAMAS Ravings                                 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: This is an example and justification for the continued heavy border controls.

*(COMMENT)*

I cannot imagine in what world the Hostile Arab Palestinians would not be a danger to peace and stability in the locally or regionally.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What kind of answer is this?
> 
> *BLUF:* Try Article 1 of the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you major in name calling at university?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wow...  Is this even a remotely intelligent response given that I provided evidence that is in the historical record?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorism and all that other name calling comes straight out of Israel. Except for political posturing, there is no reason for any other country to jump on that bandwagon.
Click to expand...


*Terrorism and all that other name calling comes straight out of Israel. *

What should Palestinian acts of terrorism be called?


----------



## Hollie

The PA is falling over itself making allegations about “Jews and money”. It’s just repeating old slogans which the PA seems willing to do as a means to appeal to their willing audience .



As Israel commemorates Holocaust, PA Antisemitism thrives: Israel's "love of money" prevents them from fighting Coronavirus - says PA spokesman

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Apr 21, 2020




As Israel commemorates the millions of victims of the Holocaust on the annual national Holocaust Remembrance Day today (Yom HaShoah), and despite global efforts for decades to eliminate Antisemitism, it is alive and well in the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Abu Jihad was not assassinated by Israel because of any political activities or ideology. His assassination stopped him from masterminding more attacks and killing more Israelis.
Abbas and his Fatah officials, nonetheless, believe that Abu Jihad and other Palestinian terrorists are honorable and decent men who were fighting for the sake of their people. What contribution did these terrorists make to Palestinian society? Did they build a school or a hospital for their people?
When Abbas describes terrorists as heroes, he is actually telling young Palestinians that those who plan and carry out terrorist attacks against Israelis should serve as role models. Abbas evidently wants all Palestinians to be like Abu Jihad and the terrorists in Israeli prisons. For Abbas and other Palestinian leaders, the glorification of terrorists seems to be more important than the fight against a deadly virus.

(full article online)









						The Palestinian Virus: Abbas's Role Models
					

Abu Jihad was not assassinated by Israel because of any political activities or ideology. His assassination stopped him from masterminding more attacks and killing more Israelis. Abbas and his Fatah officials, nonetheless, believe that Abu Jihad and




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The proportion of non-Jewish people who define themselves primarily as "Palestinian" now stands at around 7%, down from 18% this time last year.

Moreover, there was a sizable increase in the number of Arabs who define themselves as Israeli - that number rose from 5% last year to 23% this year.

According to Shmuel Rosner, one of the people who conducted the study for the Pluralism Index at the JPPI said that "these figures indicate a significant change in the self-determination of Israeli Arabs at the end of an election year, in which there was widespread discussion regarding the question of Israeli Arabs' participation in the political arena and social fabric of Israel."

Another question on the survey asked respondents to rate how much they agree with the phrase "I feel like a real Israeli."
Most Arabs responded that they either agree completely (65%) or somewhat agree (33%) with the statement.









						Only 7% of Israeli Arabs define themselves as 'Palestinian'
					

According to the survey, about a quarter of Israeli minorities (23%) define themselves primarily as "Israeli" and another half (51%) define their identity as "Israeli-Arab".




					www.jpost.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*: This is extraordinarily good news. But, for the most part, it just validates something many of us already assumed _(ie Arab-Israelis self-identify themselves as Israeli)_.



EXCERPTS • Sixties Fan said:


> Most Arabs responded positively to the statement:  "I feel like a real Israeli." agree completely (65%) or somewhat agree (33%) with the statement.





EXCERPTS • Sixties Fan said:


> ◈  65% Completely Agree​◈  33% Somewhat Agree​The proportion of non-Jewish people who define themselves primarily as "Palestinian" now stands at around 7%, down from 18% this time last year.


*(COMMENT)*

What I find a bit amazing is why anyone would claim to be Palestinian over Israeli.  Just what do they see as beneficial in being Palestinian over Israel?  What is the attraction?





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: This is extraordinarily good news. But, for the most part, it just validates something many of us already assumed _(ie Arab-Israelis self-identify themselves as Israeli)_.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS • Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most Arabs responded positively to the statement:  "I feel like a real Israeli." agree completely (65%) or somewhat agree (33%) with the statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS • Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈  65% Completely Agree​◈  33% Somewhat Agree​The proportion of non-Jewish people who define themselves primarily as "Palestinian" now stands at around 7%, down from 18% this time last year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I find a bit amazing is why anyone would claim to be Palestinian over Israeli.  Just what do they see as beneficial in being Palestinian over Israel?  What is the attraction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


*Just what do they see as beneficial in being Palestinian over Israel?  What is the attraction?*

It's an excuse to whine.
You're less likely to be murdered by militant Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*ecurity service says the trio’s plans to blow up Teddy Stadium fell through, so they instead tried to carry out attacks on IDF soldiers in West Bank*









						Shin Bet nabs 3 Palestinian men in Hamas plot to bomb Jerusalem soccer arena
					

Security service says the trio's plans to blow up Teddy Stadium fell through, so they instead tried to carry out attacks on IDF soldiers in West Bank




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border Policeman Wounded in Jerusalem Terror Attack | United with Israel
					

The terrorist arrived at a checkpoint at the entrance to Abu Dis, a Jerusalem suburb, and struck one of the troops with his car before stabbing him.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> *ecurity service says the trio’s plans to blow up Teddy Stadium fell through, so they instead tried to carry out attacks on IDF soldiers in West Bank*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shin Bet nabs 3 Palestinian men in Hamas plot to bomb Jerusalem soccer arena
> 
> 
> Security service says the trio's plans to blow up Teddy Stadium fell through, so they instead tried to carry out attacks on IDF soldiers in West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com



In the midst of apparent talks regarding prisoner swaps between Israel and Hamas, Hamas is planning a mass murder at sporting events. 

Good catch for the Israeli security forces.


----------



## Hollie

Within the endless loop of throwing money at Islamic terrorists in the hope they will conform to standards outside of Islamic terrorist / criminal enterprises is the failure of the global community to demand accountability. 












						The Palestinian Authority’s Corruption Dooms Chances for Peace
					

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas addresses the 74th session of the United Nations General Assembly at UN headquarters in New …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




The Palestinian Authority (PA) has been a hotbed of corruption and financial mismanagement since its birth in 1993 under Yasser Arafat. This has been an impediment both to Palestinian self-rule and to peace with Israel.

Arafat’s successor, PA President Mahmoud Abbas — now serving the 15th year of his four-year term of office — has elevated the crookedness of PA finances to a level even Arafat might admire. The misappropriation of billions in Western funds by PA cronies — facilitated by a lack of financial transparency or any sort of accountability — makes the realization of Palestinian aspirations more unrealistic by the day.


----------



## Hollie

Below was identified as a “filler” between PA broadcasts. Basically, as a short break between politburo propaganda messages: “just a reminder folks that we need your children in the service of the gee-had. Send your excess, lightly used youngsters to us and we’ll throw them onto islam’s 1,400 year old bonfire of hatreds”




*PA to Palestinians: Al-Aqsa is more precious than your children - in PA TV filler*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Apr 22, 2020




A filler between broadcasts on official PA TV reinforces the PA’s message to Palestinians that the Islamic holy places and the struggle for “Palestine” are worth the sacrifice of their children. For decades, the PA has promoted to parents and children alike the ideal of dying as “Martyrs” for the cause. In the new filler, the PA teaches Palestinians that the Al-Aqsa Mosque is “more precious than my children and more precious than my family”:


----------



## Hollie

So, it’s just another day in that little slice of mental disorder called the PA. 


*Terrorists who planned Olympics Massacre of 11 Israeli athletes glorified by PA and Fatah









						Terrorists who planned Olympics Massacre of 11 Israeli athletes glorified by PA and Fatah | PMW Analysis
					

The Corona crisis is not stopping the Palestinian Authority and Fatah from glorifying the “heroes” of Palestinian society.




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 24, 2020

Tragically, the Corona crisis has not stopped the Palestinian Authority and Fatah from presenting terrorists as heroes and role models. This month, both of Abbas’ institutions have made sure to mark the anniversary of the “deaths as Martyrs” of three terrorists from Fatah's Black September terror organization who were involved in planning the kidnapping and subsequent murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Human rights" group Gisha chooses to bash Israel in an Arab newspaper that censors comments. Yeah, they care about human rights.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian professor at San Francisco State University spouts lies in video
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Some in the mini-caliphates of Gaza’istan and Mahmoud’istan are all a’flutter with a new conspiracy theory about the Saudi’s and the _Zionist Entity_™️ using Facebook and Twitter to promote “Palestine is not my cause”, campaign.

This smacks of the unpardonable sin of “hurting Moslems feelings”. With Mahmoud’s PA having their own Facebook account to promote the actions of their murderous minions, what irony that they are whining and moaning. 












						Palestinians: Saudi Arabia behind anti-Palestinian smear campaign
					

Is Saudi Arabia behind a defamation campaign waged against Palestinians on various social media platforms?




					m.jpost.com
				




Some Palestinians are convinced that the oil-rich Saudi Arabia is responsible for a hashtag that has recently been trending on Twitter titled, “Palestine is not my cause.” Others believe that some Israelis may also be involved with the anti-Palestinian smear campaign.

Recently, similar anti-Palestinian accounts and posts have also popped up on Facebook.

"There's no doubt that several people from Saudi Arabia are behind this campaign," said a Palestinian political analyst in Ramallah. "It's also obvious they are receiving help from Israeli activists."

Palestinians also believe that many of the offensive posts published under the hashtag do not belong to real people, but are Internet bots (also known as web robots) –  software applications that run automated and repetitive tasks over the Internet.


----------



## Hollie

Let’s be positive. We can hope this will reduce the body count that accompanies the Islamic ‘holy month”. 

Suitcases full of Qatari cash don’t seem to be in the cards this time. 











						Too poor to buy, too scared to meet: Palestinians face joyless Ramadan
					

The electric lanterns and ornate decorations of Ramadan would normally be hanging in the streets of Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem by now, but not this year amid coronavirus restrictions and growing economic woes.  The holy fasting month is expected to start on Friday but, as elsewhere...




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## Hollie

A typical attribute of totalitarian societies is the suppression and even elimination of dissent directed at the Emperor or his enclave. 

Caliph Mahmoud has made sure that dissent is squashed in both print and electronic media. 










						As coronavirus rises, press freedom falls under the Palestinian Authority
					

Last year, dozens of Palestinian websites were ordered shut down by a Palestinian court, being regarded by the PA as opposition media.




					m.jpost.com
				




Last year, dozens of Palestinian websites were ordered shut down by a Palestinian court, being regarded by the PA as opposition media.

The Palestinian Authority remains low on the 2020 World Press Freedom Index, released this week by Reporters Without Borders, at 137 out of the 180 countries or territories ranked.

It occupies the same position it did on last year’s index.


----------



## Hollie

The article title asks an obvious question. Why is anyone surprised that Pali islamic terrorism is as successful as it is? There are entire infrastructures assembled to support it and reward it.

As the same time the Pals host their dog and pony shows on social media exhorting the faithful to kill Jews, their death cult leaders are enabling the faithful to plan mass killings at sporting events. None of this surprises me, but it is truly disturbing when I see what little attention most people pay it.

* 
*

*https://www.algemeiner.com/2020/04/07/why-do-european-ngos-support-palestinian-terrorism/*

When the European Union was founded in 1993, it had clear goals in mind — creating a new era of peace and stability in both Europe and the world. Over the years, this powerful entity has indeed helped create a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity.

However, one aspect of the union that has been continuously criticized is their involvement with, and funding of, organizations with undeniable ties to terrorist entities — like War on Want.

War on Want is a London-based NGO that self-describes as an anti-poverty charity. Yet a simple scratch beneath the surface exposes an organization that maintains steep anti-Israel sentiments, as well as connections to terrorist entities.

NGO Monitor described War on Want as the “leader and mobilizer of [the] anti-Israel BDS (boycott, divestment, and sanctions,) movement.” BDS has long been known for its radical anti-Israel beliefs and its terrorist connections. A report aptly named “Terrorists in Suits” found over 100 links between Hamas and BDS. The leading BDS committee includes a coalition of 28 Palestinian entities — among them terror groups, such as Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.


----------



## Hollie

The many names for one franchise of _*Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. *_

Okay, let's see here—Jews, Christians... enemies of Allah. Expand Islam's dominion by the sword and through deception when the kuffar won't accept it peacefully of their own accord... Long live happy-fun gee-had against the Jews and Christians—the enemies of Allah. Got it.










						Palestinian Islamic Jihad | Counter Extremism Project
					

PIJ is a Palestinian Islamist terrorist group sponsored by Iran and Syria. Founded in 1979 as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, PIJ is the second-largest terrorist group in Gaza today (after Hamas).




					www.counterextremism.com
				




Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Also Known As:


 

 
Abu Ghunaym Squad of the Hizballah Bayt Al-Maqdis*
 
al-Awdah Brigades*
 
al-Quds Brigades*
 
al-Quds Squads*
 
Harakat al-Jihad al-Islami al-Filastini*
 
Harakat al-Jihad al-Islami fi Filistin*
 
Islamic Holy War*
 
Islamic Jihad*
 
Islamic Jihad–Palestine Faction*
 
  

 
Islamic Jihad in Palestine*
 
Islamic Jihad of Palestine*
 
Islamic Jihad Palestine*
 
Palestine Islamic Jihad*
 
Palestine Islamic Jihad–Shallah Faction*
 
Palestine Islamic Jihad–Shaqaqi Faction*
 
PIJ–Shallah Faction*
 
PIJ–Shaqaqi Faction*
 
Saraya al-Quds*


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism has many acronyms for many franchises of the ideology. Much like the seemingly endless committees, authorities, commissions, administrations, etc. that make the welfare fraud franchises of the PA and Hamas what they are, BDS has adopted that same model for their various franchises and syndicates. 





*BDS Umbrella Group Linked to Palestinian Terrorist Organizations
Connections between an American charity and Hamas, PFLP, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad*










						BDS Umbrella Group Linked to Palestinian Terrorist Organizations
					

Over the past decade, as the prospects of peace between Israelis and Palestinians became ever slimmer, there has been a growing attention to—and, in some quarters, acceptance of—the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement targeting Israel, or BDS. Those drawn to the cause have likely come...




					www.tabletmag.com
				




The US Campaign, _Tablet_ has learned, is the fiscal sponsor of a group called the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC), the main West Bank and Gaza-based cohort advocating for sanctions against Israel. The BNC was created in 2007 in Ramallah with the intention of serving as the Palestinian arm of the international BDS campaign. According to the BNC’s website, one of the group’s members is the Council of National and Islamic Forces in Palestine, commonly known as PNIF. Among PNIF’s members are five different groups designated by the US as terrorist organizations, including Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), the Popular Front – General Command (PFLP-GC), the Palestine Liberation Front, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). Since its founding, the BNC has frequently and openly collaborated with known leaders of these terror organizations: In 2015, for example, the BNC held a press conference to pressure the Palestinian government not to import gas from Israel, featuring a speech by Khalida Jarrar, then a member of the Palestinian parliament for the PFLP and still an active official in the terror group. A video of the BNC-hosted press conference features Jarrar seated alongside BNC secretariat member Omar Barghouti.


----------



## Hollie

It’s way too soon for Arab-Moslem fears and hatreds to die. They’re buttressed by a 1,400 year old politico-religious ideology that establishes them.











						Palestinian Lies Never Die; Wikipedia and Google Keep Them Alive
					

Occupation is a word that dominates most debate about Israel, but the truth is that pro-Palestinian propagandists are occupying Google and Wikipedia to keep debunked narratives alive. This was recently confirmed when I attended a webinar featuring a




					www.meforum.org
				




"I thought nothing would surprise me. But many things did," she said. The physician told the story of trying to save the life of a 2½-year-old West Bank boy accidentally run over by his father. They rushed the boy to an Israeli hospital, providing treatment along the way.

"Despite all our efforts," she remembered, "the boy died. When I asked this father if he would donate any of his son's organs to another child, he said: 'Only to an Arab Palestinian child, not to an Israeli Jewish child.'"

This was a father who had just seen the enormous effort that Israeli Jews had undertaken to save his son's life; it was a very dramatic and emotional moment. Old prejudices might have died on the spot, at least momentarily. Instead, this man's Jew and Israel hatred kicked in immediately. The doctor was stunned by the sudden appearance of such "political realities."

This is the kind of psychological enemy Israel is up against. And then there are the Palestinian terrorist leaders, who indoctrinate their own people and use them to carry out terrorist attacks against civilian Israelis. This fact is minimized by Western media and global leaders.


----------



## Hollie

Salman al-Harfi, the Palestinian ambassador to France, wants US welfare money and he wants it now with an acknowledgement from the Great Satan™️ that “we were wrong”. 

The lovely Mr. “al” needs to check his calendar. This is 2020, not 1020. The kuffar is not paying jizyah. 

I’d prefer you get nothing, “al”. I have no desire for my tax payer aid money to support Islamic terrorism and without someone watch over you fine folks, I have good reason to believe that’s what will happen. 




*‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*









						‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19
					

The Palestinian envoy to France said Washington lied about sending millions in aid to beleaguered hospitals in Gaza and the West Bank, insisting the funds were earmarked for favored NGOs unlikely to spend a dime on healthcare.




					www.rt.com
				




But Salman al-Harfi, the Palestinian ambassador to France, says that the reality on the ground is strikingly different, arguing that hospitals battling the coronavirus in the occupied territories have yet to see any of the alleged aid funds.

_“He's lying, we don’t know what they’re going to spend money on, but certainly not on Palestinian healthcare and hospitals,”_ Harfi told Sputnik, adding that if US officials wanted to contribute to relief efforts, they _“can directly contact a representative of the Palestinian people and say: We want to resume assistance, we were wrong.”_


----------



## Hollie

It costs a lot of money to buy _hate_. UNRWA spends a lot of money buying _hate_ to maintain a population of people who are taught by UNRWA to _hate_.











						$1.4 billion needed this year to fund UN’s agency for Palestine refugees
					

A minimum of $1.4 billion is needed to fund the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, known as UNRWA, the acting chief said on Friday.




					news.un.org
				




Christian Saunders said the funds would provide essential services throughout 2020, including life-saving humanitarian assistance for 5.6 million registered Palestine refugees across the Middle East.

He noted that the pledges of support UNRWA received at the General Assembly in December was “an overwhelming validation of the agency and of our mandate” and stressed the importance of donors and partners matching those commitments, to allow the agency to provide refugees with “protection and those critical services considered a basic human right”.


----------



## Hollie

A refreshing bit of candor and honesty from a university president. 

Presenting an award of any kind to a pro-Islamic terrorist cabal makes absolutely no sense. 










						Tufts president says award for pro-Palestinian club ‘should not have happened’
					

Anthony Monaco disavows event recognizing Students for Justice in Palestine, says university leadership was not involved




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




JTA — The president of Tufts University said he disapproved of an award given by the Boston-area school to a pro-Palestinian group that supports the Israel boycott movement.

In a statement Thursday, Anthony Monaco said he would be “reviewing the awards process” and that no university leadership had been involved in the decision to recognize Students for Justice in Palestine. The Collaboration Award was through the Office for Campus Life.


----------



## Hollie

It’s entirely lagitimate to assign responsibility for the health of Pals to Pal leadership. Favoring to pay Islamic terrorists while diverting welfare money for their personal fortunes rests on the Pal “leadership”. 












						“We Don’t Have the Capacity to Treat”: Palestinian-Canadian Doctor Says Israel Must Lift Gaza Siege
					

As fears continue to grow about what a rampant outbreak of the coronavirus might do to the occupied Palestinian territory, already crippled by years of Israeli sanctions, we get an update from Dr. Tarek Loubani, Palestinian-Canadian doctor and emergency physician who volunteers in the Gaza Strip...



					www.democracynow.org
				




As fears continue to grow about what a rampant outbreak of the coronavirus might do to the occupied Palestinian territory, already crippled by years of Israeli sanctions, we get an update from Dr. Tarek Loubani, Palestinian-Canadian doctor and emergency physician who volunteers in the Gaza Strip and returned from a trip there last month. “Testing is severely limited,” he says. “There have been fewer tests in Gaza so far throughout the entire pandemic than there were in South Korea yesterday.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.


*BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.  



Hollie said:


> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*


*(COMMENT)*

They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.  

Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A refreshing bit of candor and honesty from a university president.
> 
> Presenting an award of any kind to a pro-Islamic terrorist cabal makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tufts president says award for pro-Palestinian club ‘should not have happened’
> 
> 
> Anthony Monaco disavows event recognizing Students for Justice in Palestine, says university leadership was not involved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JTA — The president of Tufts University said he disapproved of an award given by the Boston-area school to a pro-Palestinian group that supports the Israel boycott movement.
> 
> In a statement Thursday, Anthony Monaco said he would be “reviewing the awards process” and that no university leadership had been involved in the decision to recognize Students for Justice in Palestine. The Collaboration Award was through the Office for Campus Life.


"The president of Tufts University said he disapproved of an award given by the Boston-area school to a pro-Palestinian group that supports the Israel boycott movement. "


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?


America is funding the occupation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
Click to expand...


The <1% of Israel's GDP
that goes straight into the US military complex is "funding"??

If your presidents weren't interested in playing the Caesar of Rome,
Clinton  and Co. were to stop it as Netanyahu requested already decades ago.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:*  The US is not funding the occupation of any territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.

The recurring theme in the objections made by the Arab Palestinians is that the US renders "X" number of millions _(or billions depending upon the timeline scale)_ of dollars to Israel --- while NOT providing any similar assistance _(in fact $0)_ to various factions the Arab Palestinians purportedly administrating the Government.  And while in certain respects this is true, the questions one must know the answer first are: 

 ◈  Under what obligation does America have to provide anything to the Arab Palestinians?​​◈  Under what obligation does America even have a requirement to answer the Arab Palestinian questions on matters of the US providing defense substance and aid to any foreign nations?​


RoccoR said:


> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?





P F Tinmore said:


> America is funding the occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

And while the international community refers to the Civil Administration of the West Bank and Jerusalem as → the Occupied Palestinian Territory, it is really bad political notation.  In 1967, the Israelis assumed control of Sovereign Jordanian territory and NOT Sovereign Palestinian Territory.  And when the Jordanians broke all political ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians had still not formed a government to assume control.  It was abandoned to the Israels.



 ​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign settlers have the right to self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.  The Jewish people have been there for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were already there when the Hebrews came up from Egypt.
Click to expand...


Do you get paid for this crap?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
Click to expand...

What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel. 

Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  The US is not funding the occupation of any territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The recurring theme in the objections made by the Arab Palestinians is that the US renders "X" number of millions _(or billions depending upon the timeline scale)_ of dollars to Israel --- while NOT providing any similar assistance _(in fact $0)_ to various factions the Arab Palestinians purportedly administrating the Government.  And while in certain respects this is true, the questions one must know the answer first are:
> 
> ◈  Under what obligation does America have to provide anything to the Arab Palestinians?​​◈  Under what obligation does America even have a requirement to answer the Arab Palestinian questions on matters of the US providing defense substance and aid to any foreign nations?​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And while the international community refers to the Civil Administration of the West Bank and Jerusalem as → the Occupied Palestinian Territory, it is really bad political notation.  In 1967, the Israelis assumed control of Sovereign Jordanian territory and NOT Sovereign Palestinian Territory.  And when the Jordanians broke all political ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians had still not formed a government to assume control.  It was abandoned to the Israels.
> 
> View attachment 328223 ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

 
Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
Click to expand...

You need to keep up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.

Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.


----------



## Hollie

_








						ECI to mark 100 years since San Remo Conference in Jerusalem
					

'This is the most momentous political event in the whole history of our movement, and it is, perhaps, no exaggeration to say in the whole history of our people since the Exile'




					m.jpost.com
				



_
This weekend marks 100 years since the San Remo Conference, during which the formerly-Ottoman Middle East was split up by the European powers.

The European Coalition for Israel (ECI) and the Forum for Cultural Diplomacy will host a live-streamed event from Jerusalem starting at 4 p.m. IST featuring senior Israeli diplomats and greetings from world leaders to mark the centennial.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
Click to expand...

I have, but Zionists are slow learners.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
Click to expand...


What are Zionists supposed to learn,
that Arabian camel riders should take control?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
Click to expand...

It's comical to read your statements that are clearly false and then with as you Islamo-shuffle off as you realize your falsehoods are indefensible.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are Zionists supposed to learn,
> that Arabian camel riders should take control?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> What are Zionists supposed to learn,


According to Zionists, nothing. They refuse to learn anything.

It shows in their posts.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are Zionists supposed to learn,
> that Arabian camel riders should take control?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are Zionists supposed to learn,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to Zionists, nothing. They refuse to learn anything.
> 
> It shows in their posts.
Click to expand...


And tell me how do you feel  about that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's comical to read your statements that are clearly false and then with as you Islamo-shuffle off as you realize your falsehoods are indefensible.
Click to expand...

Like what?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  The US is not funding the occupation of any territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The recurring theme in the objections made by the Arab Palestinians is that the US renders "X" number of millions _(or billions depending upon the timeline scale)_ of dollars to Israel --- while NOT providing any similar assistance _(in fact $0)_ to various factions the Arab Palestinians purportedly administrating the Government.  And while in certain respects this is true, the questions one must know the answer first are:
> 
> ◈  Under what obligation does America have to provide anything to the Arab Palestinians?​​◈  Under what obligation does America even have a requirement to answer the Arab Palestinian questions on matters of the US providing defense substance and aid to any foreign nations?​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And while the international community refers to the Civil Administration of the West Bank and Jerusalem as → the Occupied Palestinian Territory, it is really bad political notation.  In 1967, the Israelis assumed control of Sovereign Jordanian territory and NOT Sovereign Palestinian Territory.  And when the Jordanians broke all political ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians had still not formed a government to assume control.  It was abandoned to the Israels.
> 
> View attachment 328223 ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
Click to expand...

You have never identified the location of this mythical "Pal'istanian land". Where was this sovereign land? Where is it now?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that's another example of your inability to identify any sovereign Arab-Moslem land occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, your sidestep indictates some unwillingness on your part to learn terms and definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's comical to read your statements that are clearly false and then with as you Islamo-shuffle off as you realize your falsehoods are indefensible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
Click to expand...

Exactly.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  The US is not funding the occupation of any territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The recurring theme in the objections made by the Arab Palestinians is that the US renders "X" number of millions _(or billions depending upon the timeline scale)_ of dollars to Israel --- while NOT providing any similar assistance _(in fact $0)_ to various factions the Arab Palestinians purportedly administrating the Government.  And while in certain respects this is true, the questions one must know the answer first are:
> 
> ◈  Under what obligation does America have to provide anything to the Arab Palestinians?​​◈  Under what obligation does America even have a requirement to answer the Arab Palestinian questions on matters of the US providing defense substance and aid to any foreign nations?​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And while the international community refers to the Civil Administration of the West Bank and Jerusalem as → the Occupied Palestinian Territory, it is really bad political notation.  In 1967, the Israelis assumed control of Sovereign Jordanian territory and NOT Sovereign Palestinian Territory.  And when the Jordanians broke all political ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians had still not formed a government to assume control.  It was abandoned to the Israels.
> 
> View attachment 328223 ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have never the location of this mythical "Pal'istanian land". Where was this sovereign land?
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

It's all simple,
Tinnie wants these folks to take over.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  The US is not funding the occupation of any territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The recurring theme in the objections made by the Arab Palestinians is that the US renders "X" number of millions _(or billions depending upon the timeline scale)_ of dollars to Israel --- while NOT providing any similar assistance _(in fact $0)_ to various factions the Arab Palestinians purportedly administrating the Government.  And while in certain respects this is true, the questions one must know the answer first are:
> 
> ◈  Under what obligation does America have to provide anything to the Arab Palestinians?​​◈  Under what obligation does America even have a requirement to answer the Arab Palestinian questions on matters of the US providing defense substance and aid to any foreign nations?​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And while the international community refers to the Civil Administration of the West Bank and Jerusalem as → the Occupied Palestinian Territory, it is really bad political notation.  In 1967, the Israelis assumed control of Sovereign Jordanian territory and NOT Sovereign Palestinian Territory.  And when the Jordanians broke all political ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians had still not formed a government to assume control.  It was abandoned to the Israels.
> 
> View attachment 328223 ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have never the location of this mythical "Pal'istanian land". Where was this sovereign land?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You dont seem to realize that it's buffoonish to spam threads with silly emoticons when your attempts at argument are baseless


----------



## rylah

*The Tamimi Tribe Baghdad 1939 & Terminal Goat Scene*


----------



## Hollie

It seems to me that The Arabs-Moslems spend an inordinate amount of time immersed in their conspiracy theories. It’s as though they’re in some alternate reality. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/04/15/palestinian-leadership-obsessed-with-covid-19-israeli-conspiracy/
		



Palestinian Authority mouthpieces claim Israel is deliberately infecting Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails with the virus, and even PM Mohammad Shtayyeh now part of blood libel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* 


			
				History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
			
		

> Disengagement  from the West Bank •
> Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​






P F Tinmore said:


> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Where are the Palestinian peace groups? Who is teaching Palestinians about peace?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the *occupied West Bank.*

Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.​
Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> They rejected it...


Rejected what?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the *occupied West Bank.*​​Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.​
> Indeed.
Click to expand...


*Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.*

What's this "Palestinian land" you're referring to?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rejected what?
Click to expand...


*Rejected what?*

Their own nation in 1948.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...


			
				FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
			
		

> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.



This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.



RoccoR said:


> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...





P F Tinmore said:


> Rejected what?


*(REFERENCE)*


			
				A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
			
		

> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.





			
				A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
			
		

> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”





			
				A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
			
		

> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.


◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.

*(COMMENT)*

It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_

It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy. 

Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace. 





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
> Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_
> 
> It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy.
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.


You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.

It is Palestine.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
> Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_
> 
> It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy.
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
Click to expand...

*
The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.*

Neither does "Palestine".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Rejected what?*
> 
> Their own nation in 1948.
Click to expand...

Who told you that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
> Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_
> 
> It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy.
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.*
> 
> Neither does "Palestine".
Click to expand...

Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the *occupied West Bank.*​​Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.​
> Indeed.
Click to expand...

You don't really expect others to accept that fraud, right?


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
> Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_
> 
> It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy.
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
Click to expand...

It was a geographic area. You're still confused about that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
> Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_
> 
> It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy.
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.*
> 
> Neither does "Palestine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...

You still haven't provided anything to indicate any Arab-Moslem sovereignty in the geographic area called Palestine.

Link?


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Great Satan is moving to withhold 5 million dollars intended for aid as the expectation is the money being diverted to finance Islamic terrorism. 











						US blocks Palestinian coronavirus relief over fear it may aid terrorism
					

The issue of Gaza funding came to the fore internally after the United States pledged $5 million to help Palestinian relief services in their fight against the deadly pandemic.




					nypost.com
				




The United States Agency for International Development has moved to aggressively block the distribution of coronavirus relief funds to the entire Gaza strip over concerns the money could fall into the hands of Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*
> 
> 
> 
> History - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement  from the West Bank •​Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> Click here for His Majesty's    Address to the Nation, July 31, 1988
> 
> The decision to sever legal and administrative ties with the West Bank allowed Jordan’s electoral law to be changed,    redrawing the map to include only East Bank districts. During the same period, mounting economic difficulties led to a spate of rioting in certain parts of the Kingdom.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Rejected what?*
> 
> Their own nation in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
Click to expand...


They didn't reject their own nation? That's good to know.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Here we go yet again.  We must go to the historical record...
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST MONTHLY UNPC PROGRESS  REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine.  The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission.  The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan.  The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok.  *As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January*:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED *PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION* THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”
> No further communication has been addressed to or received from the Arab Higher Committee by the Commission.  The Commission will, at the appropriate time, set forth in a separate document its views with regard to the implementations of this refusal by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a consistent stance held by the Arab Higher Committee dating back to the San Remo Conference.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous_*!*_ Not only can they do it, → they did do it... It was never Arab Palestinian Sovereign Territory... They rejected it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rejected what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The High Commissioner wishing the Advisory Council to approximate as closely as possible to the abortive Legislative council, proposed to reconstitute it on the lines suggested for the latter body, that is to say with 10 officials and 8 Moslem, 2 Christians and 2 Jewish Palestinians.  *But of the 10 Arabs whom he nominated, 7 withdrew their acceptance under political pressure.*  The High Commissioner did not wish to replace them with men of less standing.  It thus proved impossible to constitute a representative Advisory Council.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  *The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.*  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ◈  ≈ 77%  _(of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to the Arab Emirate of Transjordania as a Self-Governing Institution​◈  The remaining ≈23% of the original territory was further subdivided:​✦  ≈56% _(≈12.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate)_ Allocated to the Jewish Self-Governing Institution​✦  ≈44% _(≈10.5% of the original Territory under the Mandate) _Allocated to a second Arab Self-Governing Institution​
> Yes, you read me correctly...  Approximately 87% of the original Territory under the Mandate was allocated to Arab Palestinian interests.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is estimated that more than 50% of Jordanians are of Arab Palestinian ethnicity.  That is not counting the nearly two million illegal immigrants that were once Jordanian Citizens.  See the Article Khaled Abu Toameh titled   _Jordan: __We Do Not Want Palestinians_
> 
> It was clear then, a century ago, just as it is clear today.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and the only way to liberate Palestine.  They don't even attempt to camouflage their policy.
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.  While they still pretend to listen suggested pathways to peace, in the end, they always find a way to subvert them and scuttle and progress to peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.*
> 
> Neither does "Palestine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


If they have sovereignty, what currency do they use?
What rate do they pay on their 10 year debt?
How do they control their borders?
Where can I find their tax rates?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * I'm not "misleading" even one little bit. You're just having trouble accepting the historical record.



RoccoR said:


> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.





P F Tinmore said:


> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.


*(REFERENCES)*



			
				Report • Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan • For the Year 1932 said:
			
		

> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> *See the Report* for more defined detail.


I am citing the 1932 Report because there were some boundary adjustments being made.

One of these villages consists of 500 dunums of land containing the mineral springs of El Hamme and some few huts and tents occupied by cultivators from a neighbouring settlement in Trans-Jordan.  This area was taken over from Trans-Jordan on the ratification of the Agreement between His Majesty's Government and His Highness the Amir of Trans-Jordan and in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two countries was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River in the area in question.​In the course of this adjustment, it was discovered that a part of the lands of the Syrian frontier village Kafr Harib lay within the territory of Palestine, and this part was consequently included in the tithe lists of the Palestine Government.   This is the second of the "villages" in question.​


			
				Palestine Order in Coucil 1922 said:
			
		

> Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for​Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​


*(COMMENT)*

You are one-third correct.  None of the Mandatory Powers went about establishing sovereignty over the territories under administration.  However:  That did not alter the fact that the Mandatory Power, under the auspices of the League of Nations, established a Government through a Civil Administration.  There were very distinct boundaries and territories involved.

On the matter of Sovereignty:

◈  The Mandatory was granted full powers of legislation and of administration.​◈  The Mandatory was responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home.​◈  The Mandatory was to encourage local autonomy.​◈  The Mandatory shall defend the integrity of the territory such that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.​◈  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law.​◈  The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.​
*(IMPORTANT ASPECT)*

Not only did the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine have effective control over the Executive, Legislative and Judicial systems, but it also had all the responsibilities over diplomatic efforts, economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as national defense matters.  Remembering that the Arab Higher Committee categorically rejected and abandoned all advisory council influence (5:2 Advantage) in the establishment of frameworks Arab Self-Governance.

I'm having a hard time distinguishing any significant difference you can raise between the powers vested in the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine and any other sovereign nation.

So I ask*!*  Who _(here)_ is spreading misinformation*?*





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * I'm not "misleading" even one little bit. You're just having trouble accepting the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report • Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan • For the Year 1932 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> *See the Report* for more defined detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am citing the 1932 Report because there were some boundary adjustments being made.
> 
> One of these villages consists of 500 dunums of land containing the mineral springs of El Hamme and some few huts and tents occupied by cultivators from a neighbouring settlement in Trans-Jordan.  This area was taken over from Trans-Jordan on the ratification of the Agreement between His Majesty's Government and His Highness the Amir of Trans-Jordan and in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two countries was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River in the area in question.​In the course of this adjustment, it was discovered that a part of the lands of the Syrian frontier village Kafr Harib lay within the territory of Palestine, and this part was consequently included in the tithe lists of the Palestine Government.   This is the second of the "villages" in question.​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Coucil 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for​Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are one-third correct.  None of the Mandatory Powers went about establishing sovereignty over the territories under administration.  However:  That did not alter the fact that the Mandatory Power, under the auspices of the League of Nations, established a Government through a Civil Administration.  There were very distinct boundaries and territories involved.
> 
> On the matter of Sovereignty:
> 
> ◈  The Mandatory was granted full powers of legislation and of administration.​◈  The Mandatory was responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home.​◈  The Mandatory was to encourage local autonomy.​◈  The Mandatory shall defend the integrity of the territory such that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.​◈  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law.​◈  The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.​
> *(IMPORTANT ASPECT)*
> 
> Not only did the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine have effective control over the Executive, Legislative and Judicial systems, but it also had all the responsibilities over diplomatic efforts, economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as national defense matters.  Remembering that the Arab Higher Committee categorically rejected and abandoned all advisory council influence (5:2 Advantage) in the establishment of frameworks Arab Self-Governance.
> 
> I'm having a hard time distinguishing any significant difference you can raise between the powers vested in the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine and any other sovereign nation.
> 
> So I ask*!*  Who _(here)_ is spreading misinformation*?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, we have established that:

Palestine is the name of the country.
Palestine has defined boundaries.
The Palestinians are the natives.
The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
Links on request.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * I'm not "misleading" even one little bit. You're just having trouble accepting the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report • Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan • For the Year 1932 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> *See the Report* for more defined detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am citing the 1932 Report because there were some boundary adjustments being made.
> 
> One of these villages consists of 500 dunums of land containing the mineral springs of El Hamme and some few huts and tents occupied by cultivators from a neighbouring settlement in Trans-Jordan.  This area was taken over from Trans-Jordan on the ratification of the Agreement between His Majesty's Government and His Highness the Amir of Trans-Jordan and in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two countries was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River in the area in question.​In the course of this adjustment, it was discovered that a part of the lands of the Syrian frontier village Kafr Harib lay within the territory of Palestine, and this part was consequently included in the tithe lists of the Palestine Government.   This is the second of the "villages" in question.​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Coucil 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for​Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are one-third correct.  None of the Mandatory Powers went about establishing sovereignty over the territories under administration.  However:  That did not alter the fact that the Mandatory Power, under the auspices of the League of Nations, established a Government through a Civil Administration.  There were very distinct boundaries and territories involved.
> 
> On the matter of Sovereignty:
> 
> ◈  The Mandatory was granted full powers of legislation and of administration.​◈  The Mandatory was responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home.​◈  The Mandatory was to encourage local autonomy.​◈  The Mandatory shall defend the integrity of the territory such that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.​◈  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law.​◈  The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.​
> *(IMPORTANT ASPECT)*
> 
> Not only did the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine have effective control over the Executive, Legislative and Judicial systems, but it also had all the responsibilities over diplomatic efforts, economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as national defense matters.  Remembering that the Arab Higher Committee categorically rejected and abandoned all advisory council influence (5:2 Advantage) in the establishment of frameworks Arab Self-Governance.
> 
> I'm having a hard time distinguishing any significant difference you can raise between the powers vested in the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine and any other sovereign nation.
> 
> So I ask*!*  Who _(here)_ is spreading misinformation*?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, we have established that:
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> Links on request.
Click to expand...

You have not established anything. 

Lets start with 1.

Link?


----------



## Hollie

The position of Emperor of the mini-caliphate of Gaza'istan is up for grabs. The Islamic terrorists vying for Emperor'ship are names familiar to the ruling Islamic terrorist franchise. This is the Islamic terrorist version of recycling. 











						Israel's Eyes on Gaza as Hamas Leaders Set to Lock Horns Over Post of Politburo Chief
					

Top contenders to head Hamas' political wing responsible for establishing ties and acquiring financial aid include the Islamic group's former leader Khaled Mashaal and top commander Yehiya Sinwar. For Israel, the upcoming vote will not...




					sputniknews.com
				




Hamas, the Islamic group that controls the Gaza Strip, is set to hold elections to the leadership of its political wing in the coming months, reports suggest.

The vote that takes place every four years and that's being held by the group's general Shura council is meant to man the Strip's number one post, responsible for Hamas' diplomatic ties with the outside world as well as the acquiring of funding and humanitarian assistance.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism carries consequences. 




*Terror victims' families to collect NIS 500 m. from Palestinian Authority*









						Terror victims' families to collect NIS 500 m. from Palestinian Authority
					

The Jerusalem District Court had ruled that the PA was liable back in July 2019, but since then Shurat Hadin had to prove their damages.




					www.jpost.com
				




*The Jerusalem District Court had ruled that the PA was liable back in July 2019, but since then Shurat Hadin had to prove their damages.*
By YONAH JEREMY BOB 
APRIL 26, 2020 18:47






The Jerusalem District Court has ordered that around NIS 500 million be collected from the Palestinian Authority in civil damages for a series of terror attacks carried out mostly during the Second Intifada.

Despite the significant diplomatic implications, there was no sign from the Foreign Ministry or the Justice Ministry that anyone would stand in the way of collecting the funds from the PA.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * I'm not "misleading" even one little bit. You're just having trouble accepting the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report • Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan • For the Year 1932 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> *See the Report* for more defined detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am citing the 1932 Report because there were some boundary adjustments being made.
> 
> One of these villages consists of 500 dunums of land containing the mineral springs of El Hamme and some few huts and tents occupied by cultivators from a neighbouring settlement in Trans-Jordan.  This area was taken over from Trans-Jordan on the ratification of the Agreement between His Majesty's Government and His Highness the Amir of Trans-Jordan and in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two countries was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River in the area in question.​In the course of this adjustment, it was discovered that a part of the lands of the Syrian frontier village Kafr Harib lay within the territory of Palestine, and this part was consequently included in the tithe lists of the Palestine Government.   This is the second of the "villages" in question.​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Coucil 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for​Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are one-third correct.  None of the Mandatory Powers went about establishing sovereignty over the territories under administration.  However:  That did not alter the fact that the Mandatory Power, under the auspices of the League of Nations, established a Government through a Civil Administration.  There were very distinct boundaries and territories involved.
> 
> On the matter of Sovereignty:
> 
> ◈  The Mandatory was granted full powers of legislation and of administration.​◈  The Mandatory was responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home.​◈  The Mandatory was to encourage local autonomy.​◈  The Mandatory shall defend the integrity of the territory such that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.​◈  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law.​◈  The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.​
> *(IMPORTANT ASPECT)*
> 
> Not only did the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine have effective control over the Executive, Legislative and Judicial systems, but it also had all the responsibilities over diplomatic efforts, economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as national defense matters.  Remembering that the Arab Higher Committee categorically rejected and abandoned all advisory council influence (5:2 Advantage) in the establishment of frameworks Arab Self-Governance.
> 
> I'm having a hard time distinguishing any significant difference you can raise between the powers vested in the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine and any other sovereign nation.
> 
> So I ask*!*  Who _(here)_ is spreading misinformation*?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, we have established that:
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> Links on request.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not established anything.
> 
> Lets start with 1.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.





__





						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,  BLUF:    Disengagement  from the West Bank • Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East...



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * I'm not "misleading" even one little bit. You're just having trouble accepting the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Hostile Arab Palestinians want to achieve control over all the former territory under the Mandate and west of the Jordan River.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are misleading. The Mandate had no sovereignty, no territory, and no borders.
> 
> It is Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report • Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan • For the Year 1932 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> *See the Report* for more defined detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am citing the 1932 Report because there were some boundary adjustments being made.
> 
> One of these villages consists of 500 dunums of land containing the mineral springs of El Hamme and some few huts and tents occupied by cultivators from a neighbouring settlement in Trans-Jordan.  This area was taken over from Trans-Jordan on the ratification of the Agreement between His Majesty's Government and His Highness the Amir of Trans-Jordan and in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two countries was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River in the area in question.​In the course of this adjustment, it was discovered that a part of the lands of the Syrian frontier village Kafr Harib lay within the territory of Palestine, and this part was consequently included in the tithe lists of the Palestine Government.   This is the second of the "villages" in question.​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Coucil 1922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for​Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are one-third correct.  None of the Mandatory Powers went about establishing sovereignty over the territories under administration.  However:  That did not alter the fact that the Mandatory Power, under the auspices of the League of Nations, established a Government through a Civil Administration.  There were very distinct boundaries and territories involved.
> 
> On the matter of Sovereignty:
> 
> ◈  The Mandatory was granted full powers of legislation and of administration.​◈  The Mandatory was responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home.​◈  The Mandatory was to encourage local autonomy.​◈  The Mandatory shall defend the integrity of the territory such that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.​◈  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law.​◈  The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.​
> *(IMPORTANT ASPECT)*
> 
> Not only did the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine have effective control over the Executive, Legislative and Judicial systems, but it also had all the responsibilities over diplomatic efforts, economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as national defense matters.  Remembering that the Arab Higher Committee categorically rejected and abandoned all advisory council influence (5:2 Advantage) in the establishment of frameworks Arab Self-Governance.
> 
> I'm having a hard time distinguishing any significant difference you can raise between the powers vested in the UK Civil Administration over the Government of Palestine and any other sovereign nation.
> 
> So I ask*!*  Who _(here)_ is spreading misinformation*?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, we have established that:
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> Links on request.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not established anything.
> 
> Lets start with 1.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Title:  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, *hereinafter described as Palestine*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2 ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,  BLUF:    Disengagement  from the West Bank • Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
Click to expand...

You know the above doesn't establish statehood. Did you read it? You didn't understand, right?

Copy and paste your usual nonsense about the Treaty of Lausanne inventing your imagined "country of Pally'land".


----------



## Hollie

Let's think about this. As Hamas uses children in the front lines of the gee-had against Israel, those children who are injured as a result of deliberate actions by Hamas can be treated by Arab-Moslem medical personnel who are trained by Israeli doctors.

The upside down world of the Pals.











						Hamas quietly allows Gaza doctors to get COVID-19 training in Israel
					

Gazan medical staff received training inside Israel on the novel coronavirus in unpublicized coordination between Hamas and Israel.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Palestinian medical personnel from Gaza reportedly received training in Israel to deal with the novel coronavirus, raising questions among Palestinians about whether the training came through coordination between Israel and the Hamas government in Gaza, the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah or perhaps a humanitarian group.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In first, Saudi TV dramas feature character urging Israel ties, Hebrew monologue
					

Controversy swirls around two Ramadan productions, screened amid warming Jerusalem-Riyadh ties; 13 Palestinian groups said urging that one of the shows be taken off air




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.



*(KEY REFERENCEs)*

◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
*(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*

1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)

2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)

*NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
*Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.

4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)

5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.

5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.

6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.

7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.

◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
*(SUMMATION  

)*

The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
> *(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*
> 
> 1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> *NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
> *Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
> 3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.
> 
> 4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.
> 
> 5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.
> 
> 6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.
> 
> 7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> ◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
> *(SUMMATION  View attachment 328737)*
> 
> The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two *countries* was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River





RoccoR said:


> ◈ The Mandatory was responsible for placing the *country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions





RoccoR said:


> economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as *national defense* matters.


Hmmm.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
> *(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*
> 
> 1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> *NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
> *Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
> 3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.
> 
> 4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.
> 
> 5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.
> 
> 6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.
> 
> 7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> ◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
> *(SUMMATION  View attachment 328737)*
> 
> The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ (7) The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946


ARTICLE 20.The Members of the League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof. In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * The intent.



RoccoR said:


> in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two *countries* was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River





RoccoR said:


> ◈ The Mandatory was responsible for placing the *country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions





RoccoR said:


> economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as *national defense* matters.





P F Tinmore said:


> Hmmm.


*(COMMENT)*

OK, and so...  How are you applying the "Legal" intent_ (as oppose to taking one sentence out of its context)_?






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
> *(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*
> 
> 1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> *NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
> *Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
> 3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.
> 
> 4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.
> 
> 5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.
> 
> 6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.
> 
> 7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> ◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
> *(SUMMATION  View attachment 328737)*
> 
> The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ (7) The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ARTICLE 20.The Members of the League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof. In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations.
Click to expand...


Did you feel there was a reason to cut and paste that paragraph?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * I guess I'm missing your point.  Decisions, like the San Remo Conference by the Allied Powers, which comes after the Covenant, does not affect the Allied Powers in the context of the San Remo Conference._  (That is the way they played it.)_



RoccoR said:


> ◈ (7) The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946





P F Tinmore said:


> ARTICLE 20.The Members of the League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof. In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations.


*(COMMENT)*

OK, once again, I have to remind you that the Covenant was *"inter se"* _(among or between themselves; commonly applied to trust instruments to signify that only the rights of shareholders and trustees are involved).  (See:  Dictionary of Legal Terms:  A Simplified Guide to the Language of Law • Rutgers University School of Law/Newark)  _There was no obligation or special trust to the Arab Palestinians_ (neither shareholders or trustees)_.  The Covenant was _(ending in 1946)_ an agreement between the 63 signatories.

I have mentioned this very often in the past.  There have been no significant agreements made prior to the Oslo Accords 1993-95, except that in 1946 the Mandatory granted sovereignty to Transjordainia and recognized the Emir as the sovereign.  The Allied Powers made no agreement or owed an obligation to the Arab Palestinian.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the treaties or covenants.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The link below is to a 2015 article but not surprisingly, the attributes describing myriad forms of waste, fraud, mismanagement, theft, by the Pal Islamic terrorist factions apply across so much of the history defining the competing Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank.











						Corruption in Palestine: A Self-Enforcing System
					

81% of the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation rank the problem of corruption second only to the occupation itself. Al-Shabaka Policy Advisor Tariq Dana analyzes the systems and actors involved, arguing that corruption is a structural problem with longstanding political roots that...




					al-shabaka.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The intent.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two *countries* was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Mandatory was responsible for placing the *country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as *national defense* matters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OK, and so...  How are you applying the "Legal" intent_ (as oppose to taking one sentence out of its context)_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You posted those sentences, so...
---------
The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations.* It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]









						State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The intent.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in virtue of Article 2 of that Agreement whereby the boundary between the two *countries* was declared to be the median line of the Yarmuk River
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Mandatory was responsible for placing the *country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> economic stimulus and monetary controls, as well as *national defense* matters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OK, and so...  How are you applying the "Legal" intent_ (as oppose to taking one sentence out of its context)_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You posted those sentences, so...
> ---------
> The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations.* It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

"The Treaty of Lausanne..."

How did I know that was coming?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * This is about you spreading information out of context. (Disinformation/Intentional Misinformation)



P F Tinmore said:


> You posted those sentences, so...


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I posted them, I did not cherry-pick them to apply out of context.  I also posted the official legal interpretation for clarification.  



P F Tinmore said:


> * It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice


*(COMMENT)*

This is totally wrong.  In fact, all you got right was the name of the case.

What did Series A, Judgement #5, actually say?  This case was about whether or not His Majesty's Government liable and responsibility for work (labor and materials) contracted under the previous
government.



​The two key phrases of the Judgment, only in the context of how the PCIJ viewed the  authority and responsibility, said:

◈ "His Britannic Majesty's Government, in its capacity as the Mandatory Power for Palestine, since the year 1921, "...​​ ◈ "the Government of Palestine and consequently also the Government of His Britannic Majesty have, since 1921..."  ​
The PCIJ established that the → "Government of His Britannic Majesty" the → "Mandatory Power for Palestine" and the → "Government of Palestine" are all the same tree of governance and responsibility.
FOR the ACTUAL SOURCE: See The Government of the Greek Republic, represented by H.E. M. Kapsambelis, Greek  Minister at The Hagiics, His Britannic Majesty's Government, represented by R. V. Vernon Esq., C.B.. of the Colonial Office, pg 7, 26 March 1925.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is about you spreading information out of context. (Disinformation/Intentional Misinformation)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted those sentences, so...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, I posted them, I did not cherry-pick them to apply out of context.  I also posted the official legal interpretation for clarification.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is totally wrong.  In fact, all you got right was the name of the case.
> 
> What did Series A, Judgement #5, actually say?  This case was about whether or not His Majesty's Government liable and responsibility for work (labor and materials) contracted under the previous
> government.
> 
> View attachment 328844​The two key phrases of the Judgment, only in the context of how the PCIJ viewed the  authority and responsibility, said:
> 
> ◈ "His Britannic Majesty's Government, in its capacity as the Mandatory Power for Palestine, since the year 1921, "...​​ ◈ "the Government of Palestine and consequently also the Government of His Britannic Majesty have, since 1921..."  ​
> The PCIJ established that the → "Government of His Britannic Majesty" the → "Mandatory Power for Palestine" and the → "Government of Palestine" are all the same tree of governance and responsibility.
> FOR the ACTUAL SOURCE: See The Government of the Greek Republic, represented by H.E. M. Kapsambelis, Greek  Minister at The Hagiics, His Britannic Majesty's Government, represented by R. V. Vernon Esq., C.B.. of the Colonial Office, pg 7, 26 March 1925.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Britain was the trustee for Palestine and was responsible to handle Palestine's affairs.

So what are you trying to say here?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
> *(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*
> 
> 1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> *NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
> *Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
> 3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.
> 
> 4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.
> 
> 5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.
> 
> 6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.
> 
> 7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> ◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
> *(SUMMATION  View attachment 328737)*
> 
> The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is a lot of mud here.

Is colonialism a legitimate way to form a government and a state?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
> *(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*
> 
> 1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> *NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
> *Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
> 3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.
> 
> 4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.
> 
> 5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.
> 
> 6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.
> 
> 7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> ◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
> *(SUMMATION  View attachment 328737)*
> 
> The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot of mud here.
> 
> Is colonialism a legitimate way to form a government and a state?
Click to expand...


That oft-used slogan of yours is just a usual side-step. 

Your suffering from hurt feelings. Everyone gets that. That's no reason to spam the thread with continued nonsense slogans.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is also misleading propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the name of the country.
> Palestine has defined boundaries.
> The Palestinians are the natives.
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine.
> The Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> The Mandatory must act in the best interest of the natives.
> The Mandatory must render administrative assistance and advice to bring Palestine to independence.
> The Mandatory did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  (1)  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)​​◈  (2)  Memo No. 52/195/48  A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948 Legal Meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate”​​◈  (3)  UNPC as Successor Government of Palestine/UK memorandum - UN Press Release (27 February 1948)​​◈  (4)  2012 UN Memo Regarding A/RES/67/19 on the Status of "Palestine" in the UN​​◈  (5)  A/RES/43/177  Question of Palestine - 15 December 1988​​◈  (6)  The Mandate for Palestine - 12 August 1922​​◈  (7)  The League of Nations Covenant 1919 - 1946​
> *(COMMENT as related to Issues 1 thru 7 by P F Tinmore, member: 21837 )*
> 
> 1.  During the period 1922 thru May 1948 the meaning of the name "Palestine" was the name of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.  (See Reference 1 Palestine Order in Council)  "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. (See Reference 3)  After May 1948, "Palestine" was treated as an "entity."  "Palestine" was not identified as a state or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a Government.  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 2.  "Palestine," as a Civil Administration established by the UK, obligated the Mandatory (the UK), to assume the role of a Government for the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory.  (See Reference 6 The Mandate for Palestine)
> 
> *NOTE: ** The boundaries as affixed by the Mandatory:*
> *Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.*​*On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.*​
> 3.  Whether it is true or not, and over what period, is irrelevant.  A territorial name associated with a population within is not a basis for the claim.  I was born in Appalachia; it is a 205,000 square-mile region with a population of 25 million people.  But I do not hold my citizenship there.  The size of the territory, formerly the Mandate for Palestine, the portion west of the Jordan River, and stretching to the Mediterranean Sea is only ≈10,000 square-mile region.
> 
> 4.  Today, the meaning of "Citizens of Palestine" is still under debate.  Between December 1988 and December 2012, the term "Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).  (See Reference 4)
> 
> 5a.  Irrelevant.  I have the right to a Million Dollars.  That does not obligate anyone to give me a Million Dollars.
> 
> 5b.  The Jewish People in Palestine, have the right to self-determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.  The Jewish People worked for what they have and cooperated to acquire it.  What a difference it made in the outcome.
> 
> 6.  The Mandate states that "nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."  The Mandate does not say the "best interest."  *IF*, as the Arab Palestinians, as they have so many times before, rejected the opportunity to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are allowed to so allow to fritter-away their opportunities → so be it.
> 
> 7.   Mandatory must Render administrative assistance and advice:  Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  All overtures were rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.
> 
> ◈  The Covenant specifically states that "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples."  The "well being and development" is what?​​◈  The Covenant specifically states that "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources,"  What is the alternative when "such people" reject tutelage?​​◈  Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.   The Covenant does not specify which "communities" - "have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised."  But apparently the Emir of Transjordania was so recognized and treated distinctly different from the remainder _(that west of the Jordan River)_ of the Mandate.​
> *(SUMMATION  View attachment 328737)*
> 
> The "Questions of Palestine," as presented by P F Tinmore is really explained in the first 4 Key References _(supra)_. Everything else is fluff until the question of post-December 2012 status is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot of mud here.
> 
> Is colonialism a legitimate way to form a government and a state?
Click to expand...


*Is colonialism a legitimate way to form a government and a state?*

Good point, all the Muslims should move to Saudi Arabia.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF: * This is NOT relevant. A "Mandatory" and a "Trustee" are two different kinds of responsibility.



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain was the trustee for Palestine and was responsible to handle Palestine's affairs.
> 
> So what are you trying to say here?


*(COMMENT)*

The *Mandate System* assigned by the League of Nations was replaced by the *Trustee System* of the United Nations. They are not the same thing. The terms "trustee" and "mandatory" are not interchangeable. The territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine ended with the unilateral termination by the United Kingdom.






Most Respectfully,
R

From the Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage, 2nd Ed.  Copyright © 1987,1996 by Bryan A. Gamer

◈  *trustee*, n. A. And trusty. Trustee = a person who, having a nominal title to property, holds it in trust for the benefit of one or more others, the beneficiaries.​​◈  *mandatory; mandatary*. Horwill wrote in the 1930s that mandatory—frequently used in AmE—is uncommon in England, and that obligatory and compulsory are more common. The latter two terms may still be predominant, but mandatory injunction is now a common phrase in English law reports. The three words—mandatory, obligatory, and compulsory—are close synonyms.​


----------



## Hollie

The Pal-Arabs have produced another animated snuff film geared toward children.











						Palestinian propaganda aimed at children depicts real-life terror attacks
					

The video, which has been shared on TikTok, an app popular with children, encourages terrorism by linking it with the State of Palestine.




					www.jpost.com
				




An animated video glorifying real-life terror attacks by Palestinians against Israelis has been shared on the social media app TikTok, which is popular with children.


The minute-long video depicts an eagle flying alongside four terrorists as they carry out murderous attacks, all of which are based on real-life events, according to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), which unearthed the video.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## Hollie

Removing Islamic terrorist infrastructure.


----------



## Hollie

Lamenting the fact that she is a hostage of Islamism.


----------



## Hollie

The Pal-Arabs have developed a deep-seated paranoia, really,  a pathology that affects their every waking moment.



Gazan Journalist Alaa Al-Asi: Any Form of Dialogue with Israelis – Even Peace Activists – That Takes Place Outside of the Framework of the Resistance Is Collaboration with the Enemy


----------



## Hollie

IDF protecting Arabs-Moslems


----------



## Hollie

A common sense approach. Without accountability on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, there’s no reason to shower money on a population when that money can be diverted by Hamas for their personal fortunes or used for acts of Islamic terrorism. 







			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/04/28/usaid-blocks-corona-relief-funding-for-gaza-due-to-hamas-control-of-strip/
		


The Trump administration will not be sending US coronavirus assistance to the Gaza Strip due to concerns that funds could fall into the hands of the US-designated terrorist group Hamas.

"The Trump administration is not supporting assistance to Gaza," a senior administration official with knowledge of the decision told The New York Post. "There is a Hamas government in Gaza. They have indicated no interest in engaging with us, no interest in peace with Israel, and in fact, they continue – despite having coronavirus cases in Gaza – to fire rockets at the Israelis on a regular basis."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas brags about its Ramadan terror attacks - and takes credit for starting 2014 Gaza war
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
RE:  Hamas brags about its Ramadan terror attacks - and takes credit for starting 2014 Gaza war 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF:* Now this is interesting...  It is exceptionally nice of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) to document their own confession.



Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas brags about its Ramadan terror attacks - and takes credit for starting 2014 Gaza war
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


*(COMMENT)*

While I don't suspect that the International Criminal Court (ICC) prosecutor will take any action to include such things into the record, they are clear violations of - and - subject to unilateral prosecution by the Israelis under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, as well as some are subject to unilateral prosecution under Article 19(2) of the 1997 Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings_.  _This neutralizes the impact of HAMAS and the Palestinian National Liberation Movement (FATAH) manipulation and corruption. It would also avoid the necessity to involve of the Hague Bureaucratic justice system or the malfeasant ICC.
I am also wondering what the feasibility might be, once the ICC is done screwing around,  the prosecute selected members of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), HAMAS, FATAH and media personalities under Articles 19 and 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) and or the UN Security Council Resolution 1624:

Calls  upon  all  States  to  adopt  such  measures  as  may  be  necessary  and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​​(c)  Deny  safe  haven  to  any  persons  with  respect  to  whom  there  is  credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​​I'm sure many of the key Arab Palestinian Leaders encouraging, praising, and inciting violent action against Israel.  I'm wondering what the possibility is to seize the assets of key personalities who facilitated the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, or which engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun-running.  What would the past and present leaders of the Arab Palestinians think if the Israelis began to seize their assets?  (Hmmmm*!*)





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are losing a former ally and they're not happy about it. It seems more than naive for the Pals not to understand that aligning with Shia Iran would be a huge issue for the KSA. The House of Saud has their own interests to look after and Israel has a lot to offer as (begrudgingly), an ally.










						Palestine is still my cause, but is it yours?
					

Arguments have erupted on social media between Saudi and Palestinian activists over a TV programme on Saudi-run MBC. Palestinians are outraged that some Saudi activists have said that they are the ene...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




Arguments have erupted on social media between Saudi and Palestinian activists over a TV programme on Saudi-run _MBC_. Palestinians are outraged that some Saudi activists have said that they are the enemy, not Israel. The issue arose after an episode of a comedy show, _Makhraj 7_.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, the International Committee of the Red Cross tweeted:



> The need for social distancing is making this Ramadan tough for many families in the West Bank.
> 
> It will be especially so for those with relatives in detention in Israel, who are currently unable to visit their loved ones due to the #covid19 pandemic. pic.twitter.com/Rs8auTDMhS
> — ICRC in Israel & OT (@ICRC_ilot) April 28, 2020




A poor old woman, pining to visit her son in prison, but she is being stopped. How sad.

Except that there is no difference between her and pretty much everyone else on the planet who cannot visit their relatives. What makes her situation any different? Prisoners in Israel can and do make phone calls, the same way we are all getting by with phone calls. The COVID-19 restrictions are meant to save people like this old woman.

On first glance, this tweet seems like a gratuitous effort to keep the plight of Palestinian prisoners in the spotlight when the world has other issues to deal with.

On second glance, this is much worse.

(full article online)









						Why is the @ICRC glorifying the matriarch of a terrorist family?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

"Why was I born into the Cult of Islam"


----------



## Hollie

I'm 9 years old. I'll live a short, miserable life being groomed as a disposable, explosives carrying device. 

Please save me from this.


----------



## Hollie

Trouble in Islamic paradise?  

From the river to Sea West Bank....










						Is Hamas using coronavirus to gain support in West Bank? – analysis
					

In the past week, PA security forces arrested a number of Hamas activists after they were caught distributing food parcels and cash to needy families.




					www.jpost.com
				




In the past week, PA security forces arrested a number of Hamas activists after they were caught distributing food parcels and cash to needy families.

The Palestinian Authority believes that Hamas is using the coronavirus crisis to score points with Palestinians in the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

The differences could hardly be more stark. While Israel has developed a world class economy and stable society, the Arabs-Moslems are warring tribes. 









						Israel celebrates 72, yet in PA world Israel still does not exist | PMW Analysis
					

PA and Fatah maps: Israel is gone; “Palestine” is ”Standing Proud”‎




					palwatch.org
				




April could be called “creative map month” in the PA. As Palestinian Media Watch ‎has documented, the PA as policy always completely erases Israel in maps and ‎replaces it with “Palestine.” But this past month, to remind Palestinians to “stay at ‎home” everywhere in the “homeland” because of the Coronavirus, the PA and ‎Fatah maps erasing Israel have been even more creative than usual. ‎


----------



## Hollie

This is what the Pal Death cult worships as heroes.




*"Fatah posts picture of fighter shooting rifle: "The end of Israel, the liberation of Palestine"*
Fatah - The Main Page, Facebook  | Feb 9, 2015




*Text on image: *"Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah, Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in Palestine, The Path of the Storm. The end of Israel, the liberation of Palestine."
*Click to view bulletin*


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal’istanians are losing another source of welfare  










						Banking restrictions on Interpal threaten to sever aid 'lifeline' for Palestinians
					

Palestinians in Gaza say the most vulnerable will suffer if British charity is forced to cut programmes, after HSBC said it would no longer process donations




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




*Banking restrictions on Interpal threaten to sever aid 'lifeline' for Palestinians*

Palestinians in Gaza say the most vulnerable will suffer if British charity is forced to cut programmes, after HSBC said it would no longer process donations.

HSBC, which is one of the world's largest banks, has a record of closing down accounts, including those of prominent Muslim customers, without explanation, withdrawing banking facilities from a number of organisations and community leaders in 2014 and 2015.

Those affected included the Finsbury Park Mosque in London and Anas Altikriti, founder and CEO of the Cordoba Foundation, a think tank which says that it devotes itself to building bridges between Islam and the west.

At the time, HSBC said that the account closures had taken place in the context of a global review of its businesses conducted after it agreed to pay a $1.9bn fine to US authorities for allowing Latin American drugs cartels to use its banks to launder hundreds of millions of dollars.


----------



## Hollie

Apartheid Street.

Located in the Jew free Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

*PMW to UNICEF: Stop ignoring PA recruitment of child soldiers/terrorists*









						PMW to UNICEF: Stop ignoring PA recruitment of child soldiers/terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

PMW has sent an extensive and detailed report to UNICEF describing how the PA recruited child soldiers/terrorists in 2019.




					palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus   | Feb 24, 2020
Every year, the local branch of UNICEF (United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund) releases a biased report on “Children and Armed Conflict,” which routinely blames Israel for its treatment of Palestinian children combatants but ignores the fact that it is the Palestinian Authority who recruits the children into combat - in violation of international law.

To counter this bias, Palestinian Media Watch has sent an extensive and detailed report to UNICEF describing how the PA recruited child soldiers/terrorists, in 2019.

PMW's report shows how the PA *indoctrinates* Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel; to aspire to the destruction of Israel; *brainwashes* the Palestinian children to admire murderers; *weaponizes* the Palestinian children and* promotes* their participation in violence. The report further shows how the PA pays substantial *financial rewards* to the child terrorists. Damningly, PMW’s report also shows how the PA leadership openly admits that *the child terrorists are the PA’s soldiers.*


----------



## Hollie

In the twisted world of the Islamic terrorist enclave of the West Bank, children thrown onto the raging bonfire of Islamic hatreds are "sanctified".




*Abbas on terrorists: Our Martyrs and prisoners are the most sanctified*

Official Palestinian Authority TV  | PA Presidential Office, Facebook  | Aug 10, 2019 · Aug 11, 2019


*PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas: *"We will not agree that they [Israel] consider our Martyrs terrorists – our Martyrs, the homeland's Martyrs! And we will not agree that they deduct one penny from their money. All of their money will return to them – because for us the Martyrs, the wounded, and the prisoners are the most sanctified.”


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

It seems to me that it’s Racist™️, maybe even islamophobic™️ To suggest that young martyrs in training not have the tools used in appropriate lessons paid for by international welfare. 





*UN agency finds hand grenade in Gaza school
United Nations Relief and Works Agency condemns incident, calls on Hamas, the ‘de facto authorities,’ to respect the ‘inviolability’ of its premises*









						UN agency finds hand grenade in Gaza school
					

United Nations Relief and Works Agency condemns incident, calls on Hamas, the 'de facto authorities,' to respect the 'inviolability' of its premises




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




23 April 2020, 3:37 pm  1






Palestinian schoolchildren studying at an UNRWA school in Gaza City. (IRIN/Creative Commons via JTA)

The UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees appealed to the Hamas terror group to respect the “inviolability of its premises” after a hand grenade and a military vest were found in one of its schools in the Gaza strip.


----------



## Hollie

Another mouthpiece for the Hamas mini-caliphate is reading their Charter on the internet. Its the expected politburo slogans, something about "stolen land" but as usual, there's no indication of what land was stolen. 









						Hamas: Israel has no right to exist
					

Hamas spokesman says Israel will continue to be an enemy because it "stole" the rights and land of the Palestinian people.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




Abdel Latif al-Qanoa, a spokesman for the Hamas terrorist organization, on Wednesday denied the right of the Jewish people to establish a state on the territory of Israel.

In a series of Twitter posts as Israel marked its 72nd Independence Day, Qanoa said the independence celebrations do not change the historical fact that Israel was established as an entity that “stole Palestinian land on the bodies of the Palestinian people” and could never achieve legitimacy for its existence.


----------



## Hollie

Advanced, high tech weapons to defend against a backward, low tech aggressor.







__





						The National Interest: Blog
					

Since 1985, we have been dedicated to original reporting and expert analysis on national security--just three blocks from the White House.




					nationalinterest.org
				




The solution? Light Blade, a laser weapon system designed to intercept kites, drones, balloons (and flying condoms).

“The laser is capable of engaging targets day or night with an effective range of two kilometers (1.6 miles),” according to the Times of Israel. “It can be moved around on a small trailer or installed on a truck.”

“The portable system which can be installed on a moving vehicle can be operated both during the day and at night.” The system, which reportedly costs around a million dollars apiece, was developed by commercial companies, Ben Gurion University, the Israel Police and the Israel Defense Forces.


----------



## Hollie

The Abbas mini-caliphate still holds to those values that propelled the islamist armies off the peninsula 1,400 years ago. 





*Palestinian Authority Antisemitism: Jews must be fought for Allah on behalf of all humanity









						Palestinian Authority Antisemitism: Jews must be fought for Allah on behalf of all humanity | PMW Analysis
					

Special Report for International Holocaust Remembrance Day, Jan. 27, 2020




					palwatch.org
				



*Itamar Marcus  | Jan 26, 2020
Palestinian Authority Antisemitism:
Jews must be fought for Allah on behalf of all humanity
Special Report for International Holocaust Remembrance Day Jan. 27, 2020.


----------



## Hollie

Fatah: “We won’t relinquish a grain of soil… from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River”  | PMW Analysis
					

This position leaves no room for a two-state solution which the PA and Fatah claim to support.




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah officials:
“We won’t relinquish a grain of soil from the land of historical Palestine 
from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” 
“We are at the beginning of an ongoing confrontation,” 

Israel will leave as other “invaders” have.


And then there’s this:









						Israel Is Eager To Annex West Bank Lands, But U.S. Says To Wait
					

The Trump Mideast plan would recognize Israeli sovereignty over land Palestinians want for a future state, but the administration urged Israel to hold off.




					www.npr.org


----------



## Hollie

Another product of the Palestinian Arab Death Cult.











						Palestinian driver rams his car into West Bank checkpoint
					

Man from Palestinian village of Barta’a was asked to slow down at checkpoint but sped up and slammed into a concrete block




					jewishnews.timesofisrael.com
				




A Palestinian man drove his car into a West Bank checkpoint a day after a Palestinian teen stabbed an Israeli woman in central Israel.

The young man from the West Bank Palestinian village of Barta’a reportedly told investigators that he wanted to die, the Defense Ministry reported.


----------



## Hollie

More of the really dangerous results of identity politics.










						Democrats push for illegal immigrants to get coronavirus stimulus cash
					

Some Democrats are demanding that stimulus payments as part of the coronavirus response include illegal immigrants -- part of an ongoing effort to eliminate all barriers to public assistance for those in the country illegally.




					www.google.com
				




Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., has proposed the Automatic BOOST to Communities Act, which would give debit cards preloaded with $2,000 to “every person in America.” That would include “non-citizens, including undocumented people, permanent residents, and temporary visitors whose stay exceeds three months.”


----------



## Hollie

It looks like it may be a time of decision-making for those banks In the Abbas mini-caliphate which participate in the promotion and funding of PA sponsored Islamic terrorism.



*PA afraid of coming crisis following PMW letter to Palestinian banks*









						PA afraid of coming crisis following PMW letter to Palestinian banks | PMW Analysis
					

News stories across the Middle East from Al-Akhbar in Lebanon to Al-Jazeera in Qatar, react to PMW’s warning to banks




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus  | May 3, 2020

The Palestinian Authority is showing great anxiety in response to Palestinian Media Watch’s letter of April 20, 2020, to Palestinian banks. PMW warned Palestinian banks that on May 9 a new Israeli law goes into effect and the banks will be violating Israel's criminal law should they host bank accounts in which terrorist prisoners or their designated representatives receive money from the PA.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority is showing great anxiety in response to Palestinian Media Watch’s letter of April 20, 2020, to Palestinian banks. PMW warned Palestinian banks that on May 9 a new Israeli law goes into effect and the banks will be violating Israel's criminal law should they host bank accounts in which terrorist prisoners or their designated representatives receive money from the PA. 

Numerous articles and news stories have appeared in the PA as well as Arab media across the Middle East from Al-Akhbar in Lebanon to Al-Jazeera in Qatar, in addition to the many responses from the PA itself, reacting to PMW’s warning to the banks. And there is good reason for the PA to be panicking. Should the Palestinian banks heed PMW’s warning and close the terrorists’ accounts the pipeline through which the PA disseminates hundreds of millions of dollars to financially reward terrorist prisoners will be closed. 
Should the banks decide to ignore PMW’s warning, the Israeli government could seize the accounts, and initiate criminal proceedings against the banks and the bank officials for serving as a conduit for rewarding terror.

(full article online)









						PA afraid of coming crisis following PMW letter to Palestinian banks | PMW Analysis
					

News stories across the Middle East from Al-Akhbar in Lebanon to Al-Jazeera in Qatar, react to PMW’s warning to banks




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian asks court to block transfer of funds to PA
					

The petition demanded that the funds be directly transferred to Palestinian workers and needy families.




					m.jpost.com
				




Mohammed Aref Massad, a former Palestinian security prisoner, has demanded that Israel stop transferring tax revenue funds to the Palestinian Authority on the pretext that the money is being used to fund terrorism and corruption.

Massad, who currently lives in Haifa, made his demand in an urgent petition he filed last week with the High Court of Justice against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon and the Knesset Finance Committee.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

I never understood what this tax transfer payment was --- in the first place.



Hollie said:


> Palestinian asks court to block transfer of funds to PA
> 
> 
> The petition demanded that the funds be directly transferred to Palestinian workers and needy families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mohammed Aref Massad, a former Palestinian security prisoner, has demanded that Israel stop transferring tax revenue funds to the Palestinian Authority on the pretext that the money is being used to fund terrorism and corruption.
> 
> Massad, who currently lives in Haifa, made his demand in an urgent petition he filed last week with the High Court of Justice against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon and the Knesset Finance Committee.


*(COMMENT)*

Is the Arab Palestinian Revenue Service so inept that the Israelis have to do that as well?







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I never understood what this tax transfer payment was --- in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian asks court to block transfer of funds to PA
> 
> 
> The petition demanded that the funds be directly transferred to Palestinian workers and needy families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mohammed Aref Massad, a former Palestinian security prisoner, has demanded that Israel stop transferring tax revenue funds to the Palestinian Authority on the pretext that the money is being used to fund terrorism and corruption.
> 
> Massad, who currently lives in Haifa, made his demand in an urgent petition he filed last week with the High Court of Justice against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon and the Knesset Finance Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is the Arab Palestinian Revenue Service so inept that the Israelis have to do that as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The so called Palestinian leadership signed the Paris Protocol giving Israel the responsibility to collect the taxes on trade. Israel is to transfer these payments to Palestine. This is an obligation of the treaty. This is Palestine's money and Israel has no authority to withhold these funds.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian editorial cartoons REALLY hate "Umm Haroun" Ramadan miniseries
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It used to be that indoctrination into the Cult of Pal’istanians was a cradle to grave program that imposed upon all aspects of life. That wasn’t good enough. Now, it’s a fetus to grave program. 



*Your fetus will be a “Martyr for Palestine” – PA’s message to Palestinians 3 times in one day*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 4, 2020




“Repetition is the mother of learning, and the father of action, which makes it the architect of accomplishment,” American motivational speaker and salesman Zig Ziglar has explained. And whether or not anyone in the Palestinian Authority leadership has ever heard one of his talks or come across this statement, they sure know to practice repetition to get their messages across to the Palestinian population.


----------



## Hollie

Nothing about the corruption, greed and thievery that defines the PA and Hamas is unknown to international donors who finance the Palestinian welfare fraud. There are many credible reports of the immense wealth accumulated by the Pal leadership with the model for thievery established by Arafat. 

Yet, for some reason unknown to me, the international community continues to shower these Islamic terrorists with money. 



*The missing billions of the Palestinian Authority*









						The missing billions of the Palestinian Authority | PMW Analysis
					

Funding for terror organizations, and funding for institutions that have not functioned for over a decade




					palwatch.org
				




*The missing billions of the Palestinian Authority: 
Funding for terror organizations and funding for institutions 
that have not functioned for over a decade*​
*Since 2011, the PA has given the PLO over 7,000,000,000 (7 billion) shekels ($1.99 billion/€1.78 billion). Some of that money went directly to PLO member organizations, such as the PFLP, that the US, the EU, and Israel have designated as terrorist organizations*

*Even though the PA has not held elections for 15 years, from 2011 to 2018 the PA spent 104,566,000 shekels ($29.7 million/€26.6 million) on its “Central Election Committee”*

*While the PA’s “Legislative Council” - the PA Parliament - has not functioned since 2006, from 2011 to 2018 the PA spent no less than 336,746,000 shekels ($95.5 million/€85.5 million) on the “Legislative Council” *

*In total, these activities have cost the PA over 7,440,000,000 (7.44 billion) shekels ($2.12 billion/€1.89 billion) *
​


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I never understood what this tax transfer payment was --- in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian asks court to block transfer of funds to PA
> 
> 
> The petition demanded that the funds be directly transferred to Palestinian workers and needy families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mohammed Aref Massad, a former Palestinian security prisoner, has demanded that Israel stop transferring tax revenue funds to the Palestinian Authority on the pretext that the money is being used to fund terrorism and corruption.
> 
> Massad, who currently lives in Haifa, made his demand in an urgent petition he filed last week with the High Court of Justice against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon and the Knesset Finance Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is the Arab Palestinian Revenue Service so inept that the Israelis have to do that as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Kingdom in Jewish Law - gov that oversees tax collection and declaration of war.

You know there're moments when one just 'gets it',
this is so plain, I've listened to a lot of lessons on this subject,
but only just now got it, thanks to Your question.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I never understood what this tax transfer payment was --- in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian asks court to block transfer of funds to PA
> 
> 
> The petition demanded that the funds be directly transferred to Palestinian workers and needy families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mohammed Aref Massad, a former Palestinian security prisoner, has demanded that Israel stop transferring tax revenue funds to the Palestinian Authority on the pretext that the money is being used to fund terrorism and corruption.
> 
> Massad, who currently lives in Haifa, made his demand in an urgent petition he filed last week with the High Court of Justice against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon and the Knesset Finance Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is the Arab Palestinian Revenue Service so inept that the Israelis have to do that as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The so called Palestinian leadership signed the Paris Protocol giving Israel the responsibility to collect the taxes on trade. Israel is to transfer these payments to Palestine. This is an obligation of the treaty. This is Palestine's money and Israel has no authority to withhold these funds.
Click to expand...


Authority...
So what Arabs now end Oslo?
They will hold to it with their teeth,
because that's the only source of their authority.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I agree with you.  Any new excuse for a program to buy Arab Palestinians leaders new Dormeuil Vanquish and Zoot Suits is just out of the question.
> 
> 
> *BLUF:*  The Arab Palestinians, no matter what education level they claim, are _(more often than not)_ asking for something and then insisting we thank them for the trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We did not get a cent’: Palestinian diplomat says US ‘lying’ about promised $5mn aid package to hospitals facing Covid-19*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They must be brain dead - or - mentally retarded as a hereditary factor.    America is not going to render voluntary aid for a penny _(let alone $5M)_ and then apologize for not giving a corrupt government the money sooner.  The Arab Palestinians have squeezed more than enough money from America and other donor nations to take care of their needs --- and the graft and skimming besides.
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?  Under what obligation is America to provide such assistance?   Maybe the Arab Palestinians should make the same demand on their new best Persian buddies.  If the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) can smuggle in weapons, they surely can smuggle in medical supplies and assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What occupation? You can't identify any sovereign  Arab-Moslem land that is occupied by Israel.
> 
> Indeed, you should learn to accurately use terms and definitions.
Click to expand...


It’s a waste of time with him.

Either he doesn’t “get” it.

Or he’s being wilfully obtuse.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  The US is not funding the occupation of any territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The recurring theme in the objections made by the Arab Palestinians is that the US renders "X" number of millions _(or billions depending upon the timeline scale)_ of dollars to Israel --- while NOT providing any similar assistance _(in fact $0)_ to various factions the Arab Palestinians purportedly administrating the Government.  And while in certain respects this is true, the questions one must know the answer first are:
> 
> ◈  Under what obligation does America have to provide anything to the Arab Palestinians?​​◈  Under what obligation does America even have a requirement to answer the Arab Palestinian questions on matters of the US providing defense substance and aid to any foreign nations?​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under what right do the Arab Palestinians demand anything from America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> America is funding the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And while the international community refers to the Civil Administration of the West Bank and Jerusalem as → the Occupied Palestinian Territory, it is really bad political notation.  In 1967, the Israelis assumed control of Sovereign Jordanian territory and NOT Sovereign Palestinian Territory.  And when the Jordanians broke all political ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians had still not formed a government to assume control.  It was abandoned to the Israels.
> 
> View attachment 328223 ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot "abandon" Palestinian land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have never identified the location of this mythical "Pal'istanian land". Where was this sovereign land? Where is it now?
Click to expand...


Perhaps he means Iraq.

That was Mandate administered land too.


----------



## Hollie

Israel rocks, dude.


----------



## Hollie

Little Muhammud has been groomed for this since the cradle.

Little boys and girls are the stuff that "martyrs" sacrificial lambs are made of, used to enrich Hamas leadership banks accounts












						Schoolmates bid farewell to their martyr friend in Gaza | Palestine News Today
					

Palestine, Gaza, Israeli Crimes, BDS, Save Palestine, Palestine news, berita Palestina, al-aqsa, al-quds, palestina




					www.palestinow.com
				



February 9, 2019






The students of “Hamad School” gathered on Saturday for the funeral of their friend killed by Israeli forces live ammunition at the Great March of Return protest near the perimeter fence on Friday.


----------



## Mindful

Yes, that's really him.
Syksy Räsänen is a board member of Amnesty Finland, and a veteran anti-Israel activist who has written a book about "Israeli apartheid."

Germany announced last Thursday  that it was declaring all of Hezbollah a terrorist organization. Räsänen went on a rant about this on Sunday:

Amnesty Finland board member defends Hezbollah and Assad, says Israel is the real terrorist


----------



## Mindful

^ Räsänen used as source material a CNN report that the reason for the ban was Hezbollah's anti-Israel stance. But Hezbollah's terror activities are widely documented:

Hezbollah was behind a bombing in Istanbul in May 2011 that wounded eight Turkish civilians in an assassination attempt on the Israeli consul to Turkey, Moshe Kimchi.

In July 2012, a Lebanese man who admitted working for Hezbollah was detained by Cyprus police for planning attacks against Israeli tourists.

The 2012 Burgas bus bombing terrorist attack against Israeli citizens in Bulgaria, which killed six, was done by Hezbollah.

These are only the European attacks since 2010. Hezbollah has been involved in attacks and attempts in Singapore, Argentina and elsewhere. Denying that they are terrorists is the worst kind of pandering.

Oh, and Germany seems to have acted after the Mossad helpfully informed German authorities of the locations of warehouses in Germany where Hezbollah was storing explosives. But that's a minor detail to someone as big-brained as Syksy Räsänen.

But Räsänen, the human rights activist, has nothing bad to say about these attacks - because the intended target was Israeli civilians, and to him, Israelis are not human.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel rocks, dude.


*Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rocks, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?
> 
> *
Click to expand...


Q. Did the leader of these,
really expect life without arrest, to say the least?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rocks, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. Did the leader of these,
> really expect life without arrest, to say the least?
Click to expand...

You're too funny. You think like an Israeli.  

That is 2003, You need to keep up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rocks, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. Did the leader of these,
> really expect life without arrest, to say the least?
Click to expand...

BTW, Khalida Jarrar  has two daughters.

Suha Jarrar

Yafa Jarrar

Chips off the old block.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sarsour’s book is filled with a mix of anecdotal stories from her life along with poorly sourced political observations.

In one instance, she proudly recounts how she threatened to dox a young Palestinian man because he was allegedly a spy for a law enforcement agency.

In another, she describes how she met fellow Women’s March organizers Tamika Mallory and Carmen Perez, describing them as the “unbreakable social justice Voltron.”

She recounts that no one actually introduced Mallory and Perez to her, but rather the three of them just always ended up being at the same protests. Their relationship was solidified in 2014, when they organized a march from New York to Washington, D.C. following the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown.

She evokes a lot of Martin Luther King, Jr./marching in Selma protest imagery, but doesn’t seem to see the disparity between her vivid imagination and the reality of her group of marchers spending one of their evenings in a mosque run by the Nation of Islam, an organization led by hate preacher Louis Farrakhan, who calls Jews “satanic” and compares them to termites.

Sarsour describes Michael Brown’s death as a “noonday execution” and the reiterates a witness report of Brown having his hands up and yelling “don’t shoot.”

Yet the notes at the end of the book only cite one source for information on the events surrounding Brown’s death. It has long been known that the “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative of those events was a lie, yet she still uses this event to create her false narrative.

These false narratives run throughout her book. While serving as a surrogate for the Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign in 2015, she recounts that, unlike Sanders, other political candidates see Muslims as a political liability.

As proof, she cites Hillary Clinton returning $51,000 in contributions during her 2000 New York senate campaign from two Muslim groups. Yet, even the _The New York Times_article Sarsour cites as the source for this information notes that the two groups — American Muslim Alliance and the American Muslim Council — had problematic histories of anti-Semitism and openly praised the terrorist group Hamas.

Sarsour either never read the article she cited, or she sees no reason to bring up these inconvenient facts.

Sarsour has long been accused of being an anti-Semite herself. Her blatant support of the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) movement, as well as other incendiary comments certainly point this way.

Yet, Sarsour deflects these accusations as nothing more than a defamation campaign against her. “I was anti-Semitic because I advocated for the human rights of Palestinians,” she writes.

This is laughable considering her history of engaging in bigotry against Jews. Here are just a few examples. In the past, Sarsour has


Claimed “Israel is built on the idea that Jews are supreme to everyone else”
Playfully joked with anti-Semitic, Hezbollah supporter, Abbas Hamideh about the Jewish people’s connection to Israel

(full article online)






						This content is unavailable | Clarion Project
					

We’re sorry, this content is unavailable We’ve taken down many of the old opinion pieces and are focussed now on providing you with accurate, up-to-date information on the latest extremist threats free of any partisan spin. Sign up to receive a weekly roundup of information on these threats...




					clarionproject.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

EoZTV: Demolishing Linda Sarsour
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com
				




n this video, I (along with Mrs. Elder) fisk a two minute clip of Linda Sarsour, showing exactly how she uses propaganda methods to libel Israel (along with old fashioned lying.)

Framing a discussion is a major way to keep people from even thinking of bringing up facts you don't want to talk about, and Sarsour is good at it. I show how and when she does it.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rocks, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. Did the leader of these,
> really expect life without arrest, to say the least?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're too funny. You think like an Israeli.
> 
> That is 2003, You need to keep up.
Click to expand...


How would you know how Israelis think?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Sarsour’s book is filled with a mix of anecdotal stories from her life along with poorly sourced political observations.
> 
> In one instance, she proudly recounts how she threatened to dox a young Palestinian man because he was allegedly a spy for a law enforcement agency.
> 
> In another, she describes how she met fellow Women’s March organizers Tamika Mallory and Carmen Perez, describing them as the “unbreakable social justice Voltron.”
> 
> She recounts that no one actually introduced Mallory and Perez to her, but rather the three of them just always ended up being at the same protests. Their relationship was solidified in 2014, when they organized a march from New York to Washington, D.C. following the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown.
> 
> She evokes a lot of Martin Luther King, Jr./marching in Selma protest imagery, but doesn’t seem to see the disparity between her vivid imagination and the reality of her group of marchers spending one of their evenings in a mosque run by the Nation of Islam, an organization led by hate preacher Louis Farrakhan, who calls Jews “satanic” and compares them to termites.
> 
> Sarsour describes Michael Brown’s death as a “noonday execution” and the reiterates a witness report of Brown having his hands up and yelling “don’t shoot.”
> 
> Yet the notes at the end of the book only cite one source for information on the events surrounding Brown’s death. It has long been known that the “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative of those events was a lie, yet she still uses this event to create her false narrative.
> 
> These false narratives run throughout her book. While serving as a surrogate for the Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign in 2015, she recounts that, unlike Sanders, other political candidates see Muslims as a political liability.
> 
> As proof, she cites Hillary Clinton returning $51,000 in contributions during her 2000 New York senate campaign from two Muslim groups. Yet, even the _The New York Times_article Sarsour cites as the source for this information notes that the two groups — American Muslim Alliance and the American Muslim Council — had problematic histories of anti-Semitism and openly praised the terrorist group Hamas.
> 
> Sarsour either never read the article she cited, or she sees no reason to bring up these inconvenient facts.
> 
> Sarsour has long been accused of being an anti-Semite herself. Her blatant support of the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) movement, as well as other incendiary comments certainly point this way.
> 
> Yet, Sarsour deflects these accusations as nothing more than a defamation campaign against her. “I was anti-Semitic because I advocated for the human rights of Palestinians,” she writes.
> 
> This is laughable considering her history of engaging in bigotry against Jews. Here are just a few examples. In the past, Sarsour has
> 
> 
> Claimed “Israel is built on the idea that Jews are supreme to everyone else”
> Playfully joked with anti-Semitic, Hezbollah supporter, Abbas Hamideh about the Jewish people’s connection to Israel
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This content is unavailable | Clarion Project
> 
> 
> We’re sorry, this content is unavailable We’ve taken down many of the old opinion pieces and are focussed now on providing you with accurate, up-to-date information on the latest extremist threats free of any partisan spin. Sign up to receive a weekly roundup of information on these threats...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clarionproject.org


Don't forget that the Clarion Project is an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This successful American businessman is considered, according to UNRWA's definition, to be a "Palestine refugee" - today.

And so are any of his children and grandchildren, born and raised in the US.

If Salameh would decide to move back to Lebanon, he would be eligible for UNRWA services as a refugee. His American citizenship is not a factor in determining what UNRWA considers refugee status.

This is just one of the absurd stories about UNRWA's definition of "refugee" that the media does not cover. If UNRWA's definition would be in line with that of the Refugee Convention, then the number of "Palestine refugees" would plummet from millions to thousands. And places like Lebanon and Saudi Arabia would feel more obligated to actually give these people a path to citizenship instead of pretending that they will one day go "back to Palestine."

(full article online)









						Here's a successful American businessman - and @UNRWA "refugee"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sarsour’s book is filled with a mix of anecdotal stories from her life along with poorly sourced political observations.
> 
> In one instance, she proudly recounts how she threatened to dox a young Palestinian man because he was allegedly a spy for a law enforcement agency.
> 
> In another, she describes how she met fellow Women’s March organizers Tamika Mallory and Carmen Perez, describing them as the “unbreakable social justice Voltron.”
> 
> She recounts that no one actually introduced Mallory and Perez to her, but rather the three of them just always ended up being at the same protests. Their relationship was solidified in 2014, when they organized a march from New York to Washington, D.C. following the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown.
> 
> She evokes a lot of Martin Luther King, Jr./marching in Selma protest imagery, but doesn’t seem to see the disparity between her vivid imagination and the reality of her group of marchers spending one of their evenings in a mosque run by the Nation of Islam, an organization led by hate preacher Louis Farrakhan, who calls Jews “satanic” and compares them to termites.
> 
> Sarsour describes Michael Brown’s death as a “noonday execution” and the reiterates a witness report of Brown having his hands up and yelling “don’t shoot.”
> 
> Yet the notes at the end of the book only cite one source for information on the events surrounding Brown’s death. It has long been known that the “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative of those events was a lie, yet she still uses this event to create her false narrative.
> 
> These false narratives run throughout her book. While serving as a surrogate for the Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign in 2015, she recounts that, unlike Sanders, other political candidates see Muslims as a political liability.
> 
> As proof, she cites Hillary Clinton returning $51,000 in contributions during her 2000 New York senate campaign from two Muslim groups. Yet, even the _The New York Times_article Sarsour cites as the source for this information notes that the two groups — American Muslim Alliance and the American Muslim Council — had problematic histories of anti-Semitism and openly praised the terrorist group Hamas.
> 
> Sarsour either never read the article she cited, or she sees no reason to bring up these inconvenient facts.
> 
> Sarsour has long been accused of being an anti-Semite herself. Her blatant support of the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) movement, as well as other incendiary comments certainly point this way.
> 
> Yet, Sarsour deflects these accusations as nothing more than a defamation campaign against her. “I was anti-Semitic because I advocated for the human rights of Palestinians,” she writes.
> 
> This is laughable considering her history of engaging in bigotry against Jews. Here are just a few examples. In the past, Sarsour has
> 
> 
> Claimed “Israel is built on the idea that Jews are supreme to everyone else”
> Playfully joked with anti-Semitic, Hezbollah supporter, Abbas Hamideh about the Jewish people’s connection to Israel
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This content is unavailable | Clarion Project
> 
> 
> We’re sorry, this content is unavailable We’ve taken down many of the old opinion pieces and are focussed now on providing you with accurate, up-to-date information on the latest extremist threats free of any partisan spin. Sign up to receive a weekly roundup of information on these threats...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clarionproject.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that the Clarion Project is an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Outrageous!!
Only Palestinian propaganda is allowed!!!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sarsour’s book is filled with a mix of anecdotal stories from her life along with poorly sourced political observations.
> 
> In one instance, she proudly recounts how she threatened to dox a young Palestinian man because he was allegedly a spy for a law enforcement agency.
> 
> In another, she describes how she met fellow Women’s March organizers Tamika Mallory and Carmen Perez, describing them as the “unbreakable social justice Voltron.”
> 
> She recounts that no one actually introduced Mallory and Perez to her, but rather the three of them just always ended up being at the same protests. Their relationship was solidified in 2014, when they organized a march from New York to Washington, D.C. following the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown.
> 
> She evokes a lot of Martin Luther King, Jr./marching in Selma protest imagery, but doesn’t seem to see the disparity between her vivid imagination and the reality of her group of marchers spending one of their evenings in a mosque run by the Nation of Islam, an organization led by hate preacher Louis Farrakhan, who calls Jews “satanic” and compares them to termites.
> 
> Sarsour describes Michael Brown’s death as a “noonday execution” and the reiterates a witness report of Brown having his hands up and yelling “don’t shoot.”
> 
> Yet the notes at the end of the book only cite one source for information on the events surrounding Brown’s death. It has long been known that the “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative of those events was a lie, yet she still uses this event to create her false narrative.
> 
> These false narratives run throughout her book. While serving as a surrogate for the Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign in 2015, she recounts that, unlike Sanders, other political candidates see Muslims as a political liability.
> 
> As proof, she cites Hillary Clinton returning $51,000 in contributions during her 2000 New York senate campaign from two Muslim groups. Yet, even the _The New York Times_article Sarsour cites as the source for this information notes that the two groups — American Muslim Alliance and the American Muslim Council — had problematic histories of anti-Semitism and openly praised the terrorist group Hamas.
> 
> Sarsour either never read the article she cited, or she sees no reason to bring up these inconvenient facts.
> 
> Sarsour has long been accused of being an anti-Semite herself. Her blatant support of the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) movement, as well as other incendiary comments certainly point this way.
> 
> Yet, Sarsour deflects these accusations as nothing more than a defamation campaign against her. “I was anti-Semitic because I advocated for the human rights of Palestinians,” she writes.
> 
> This is laughable considering her history of engaging in bigotry against Jews. Here are just a few examples. In the past, Sarsour has
> 
> 
> Claimed “Israel is built on the idea that Jews are supreme to everyone else”
> Playfully joked with anti-Semitic, Hezbollah supporter, Abbas Hamideh about the Jewish people’s connection to Israel
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This content is unavailable | Clarion Project
> 
> 
> We’re sorry, this content is unavailable We’ve taken down many of the old opinion pieces and are focussed now on providing you with accurate, up-to-date information on the latest extremist threats free of any partisan spin. Sign up to receive a weekly roundup of information on these threats...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clarionproject.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that the Clarion Project is an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Weren't you the one claiming this was a lame excuse,
for having nothing to refute the facts.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rocks, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. Did the leader of these,
> really expect life without arrest, to say the least?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're too funny. You think like an Israeli.
> 
> That is 2003, You need to keep up.
Click to expand...


Of course suicide marches are "funny",
how would I think otherwise.

The one above in Bitzeit, is 5 months ago.
But let's play surprised and talk some rubbish about kitten nurseries.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel rocks, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Q. Did the leader of these,
> really expect life without arrest, to say the least?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're too funny. You think like an Israeli.
> 
> That is 2003, You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course suicide marches are "funny",
> how would I think otherwise.
> 
> The one above in Bitzeit, is 5 months ago.
> But let's play surprised and talk some rubbish about kitten nurseries.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist interpretation of comedy includes songs about attacking Israel. 

I suppose one could find a sense of humor in the beat down taken by the Islamic terrorists in 2014. It’s all fun and games in islam’istan until the retaliation starts. 



*“Strike Tel Aviv... terrify the Zionist” is actor's ringtone in PA TV comedy *

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 5, 2020





*Song was part of Hamas propaganda during 2014 Gaza War *
*Song was played at PA rally in 2013*


----------



## Hollie

It really is interesting to see (at least outwardly), the changing dynamic of the relationship between the KSA and Israel. The KSA has good reasons to align more with Israel as Hamas becomes something of a Hezbollah wannabe under the burqa of Shia Islamism. 










						Ramadan TV Series About Gulf Jews Ignites Controversy
					

A television series aired by a Saudi broadcaster during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan has sparked controversy by offering a positive depiction of a Jewish community in the Gulf at the time of Israel's creation.




					www.nytimes.com
				




JERUSALEM — A television series aired by a Saudi broadcaster during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan has sparked controversy by offering a positive depiction of a Jewish community in the Gulf at the time of Israel's creation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> EoZTV: Demolishing Linda Sarsour
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n this video, I (along with Mrs. Elder) fisk a two minute clip of Linda Sarsour, showing exactly how she uses propaganda methods to libel Israel (along with old fashioned lying.)
> 
> Framing a discussion is a major way to keep people from even thinking of bringing up facts you don't want to talk about, and Sarsour is good at it. I show how and when she does it.


The complete interview.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> EoZTV: Demolishing Linda Sarsour
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n this video, I (along with Mrs. Elder) fisk a two minute clip of Linda Sarsour, showing exactly how she uses propaganda methods to libel Israel (along with old fashioned lying.)
> 
> Framing a discussion is a major way to keep people from even thinking of bringing up facts you don't want to talk about, and Sarsour is good at it. I show how and when she does it.


This guy is a hoot. Lies and misrepresentations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EoZTV: Demolishing Linda Sarsour
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n this video, I (along with Mrs. Elder) fisk a two minute clip of Linda Sarsour, showing exactly how she uses propaganda methods to libel Israel (along with old fashioned lying.)
> 
> Framing a discussion is a major way to keep people from even thinking of bringing up facts you don't want to talk about, and Sarsour is good at it. I show how and when she does it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is a hoot. Lies and misrepresentations.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid we're left, as usual, with another of your unsupported claims.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Iranian Mullocrats are cutting their losses as that Shia Crescent will be taking a pause.










						Reports: Israel Is Finally Driving Iran Out of Syria
					

Israeli defense officials are now reported as saying that, under the pressure of repeated Israeli airstrikes, Iran—which has been involved in the fighting in Syria since 2011—is starting to pack up an...




					pjmedia.com
				




Israeli defense officials are now reported as saying that, under the pressure of repeated Israeli airstrikes, Iran—which has been involved in the fighting in Syria since 2011—is starting to pack up and leave.

Its forces, the anonymous officials say, are “pulling out of Syria and closing military bases there.” That news comes on the heels of two more reported strikes on Monday night—and no less than 14 since April 10.


----------



## Hollie

The UNRWA is the world's hugest welfare program. It exists purely to perpetuate the invented "refugee" status of Palestinian Arabs who fled their homes when Arab armies told them to get out of the way so the Jew-genocide could commence. It's the only such agency for a terror quasi-state, and it gets $100 million annually from U.S. taxpayers. Does that money go to help impoverished Palestinian Arabs who need to eat and receive medical care or does it buy new Kalashnikovs and plastic explosives for Hamas? 












						UN Palestinian refugee agency operating on ‘month-to-month’ basis
					

In 2018, the US halted annual payments of $360m to UNRWA, which provides assistance to some 5.5 million refugees.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




In 2018, the US halted annual payments of $360m to UNRWA, which provides assistance to some 5.5 million refugees.
[_The Great Satan welfare money was effectively used to finance Islamic terrorism -ed.]_

Scrambling to tackle COVID-19 in camps across the Middle East, the UN agency supporting Palestinian refugees said it only has enough cash to operate until the end of May because of American funding cuts.
[_Not soon enough -ed.]_


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It will be interesting to see if the Arab Palestinian Government can step up and perform the actual functions and weather the COVID-19 storm.  



Hollie said:


> In 2018, the US halted annual payments of $360m to UNRWA, which provides assistance to some 5.5 million refugees.
> [_The Great Satan welfare money was effectively used to finance Islamic terrorism -ed.]_
> Scrambling to tackle COVID-19 in camps across the Middle East, the UN agency supporting Palestinian refugees said it only has enough cash to operate until the end of May because of American funding cuts.
> [_Not soon enough -ed.]_


*(COMMENT)*

I guess we will see if the Arab Palestinians actually have a government.  Will we see the government infrastructure collapse?             






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the Arab Palestinian Government can step up and perform the actual functions and weather the COVID-19 storm.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2018, the US halted annual payments of $360m to UNRWA, which provides assistance to some 5.5 million refugees.
> [_The Great Satan welfare money was effectively used to finance Islamic terrorism -ed.]_
> Scrambling to tackle COVID-19 in camps across the Middle East, the UN agency supporting Palestinian refugees said it only has enough cash to operate until the end of May because of American funding cuts.
> [_Not soon enough -ed.]_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I guess we will see if the Arab Palestinians actually have a government.  Will we see the government infrastructure collapse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The actual functions of government are defined differently by Hamas vs. what many of us might expect.









						Israel Strikes Hamas in Gaza after Rocket Launch
					

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it hit several Hamas targets in Gaza in response to a rocket launched at southern Israel Tuesday night.




					www1.cbn.com


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the Arab Palestinian Government can step up and perform the actual functions and weather the COVID-19 storm.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2018, the US halted annual payments of $360m to UNRWA, which provides assistance to some 5.5 million refugees.
> [_The Great Satan welfare money was effectively used to finance Islamic terrorism -ed.]_
> Scrambling to tackle COVID-19 in camps across the Middle East, the UN agency supporting Palestinian refugees said it only has enough cash to operate until the end of May because of American funding cuts.
> [_Not soon enough -ed.]_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I guess we will see if the Arab Palestinians actually have a government.  Will we see the government infrastructure collapse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't see Hamas collapsing as the authoritarian rulers of their mini-caliphate. The EU is still showering the Pals with money and (seemingly), decided to finance the latest attack aimed at Israel with a rather substantial donation to the Hamas franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc.

Toward the middle of April, the EU pledged a wad of fun-money to the Pals. There wasn't much detail as to the specifics of how the money would be distributed or if there would be any accountability for the distribution.
EU grants €71M in aid to Palestine to fight COVID-19

For as long as the west continues to provide funding for Islamic terrorists, the terrorists have every reason to maintain the status quo.  Even subsistence welfare payments to the PA and Hamas will allow that leadership to largely maintain their terrorist / crime syndicate.


----------



## Hollie

It seems that for the Arabs-Moslems, there's nothing like a conspiracy theory to motivate the Ummah to, you know, obsess over conspiracy theories. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/04/15/palestinian-leadership-obsessed-with-covid-19-israeli-conspiracy/
		


*Palestinian leadership obsessed with COVID-19 Israeli 'conspiracy'*

Palestinian Authority mouthpieces claim Israel is deliberately infecting Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails with the virus, and even PM Mohammad Shtayyeh now part of blood libel.


----------



## Hollie

In the worldview of the Pal Death Cult, a serial mass murderer is made a hero. A calculating mass murderer of women and children is a hero? 



*Child in Fatah parade holds poster of Abu Jihad, terrorist responsible for 125 murders*





__





						Child in Fatah parade holds poster of Abu Jihad, terrorist responsible for 125 murders | PMW Translations
					

Images and text posted on the official Fatah Facebook page Posted text: “The Fatah Movement organized a demonstration in the city of Tubas on the 52nd anniversary of the Launch (Intilaqa) of the Palestinian revolution” The image shows a boy carrying a poster of terrorist Khalil Al-Wazir “Abu...”




					palwatch.org
				










_*Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir)* was a founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. He headed the PLO terror organization's military wing and also planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks in the 1960’s - 1980’s. These attacks, which killed a total of 125 Israelis, included the most lethal in Israeli history - the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children._


----------



## Hollie

These nutjobs are as much a danger to others as they are to their co-Death Cultists.




*Corona virus "is one of Almighty Allah's soldiers... He is unleashing it on those who attack His believers," says preacher on official PA TV*






*"The true meaning of the epidemics is a… trial for the believers and a punishment for the sinners"*

*"If [believers]… place their trust in Allah, then they will receive an enormous reward, and whoever dies in the epidemic [among the believers] merits the reward of Martyrdom"*


----------



## Sixties Fan

> Paragraph 2.4 of Mays’ charge sheet is particularly serious: “In August 2019, or a proximate date, the accused spoke with Kutzi Masalmeh, Lian Elkaid and Samah Gradath about holding a summer camp for the organization [Qutub], and wondered how to go about it in the light of the detention of a number of people.”
> 
> Fortunately for Israel, the malicious and perilous plan to organize a summer camp was thwarted in time, thanks to the Shin Bet security service.


What do you think would be taught at a summer camp run by a group linked to terror? It isn't a summer camp, it is an indoctrination center for children to join the PFLP.

Just based on a biased Haaretz report and some basic searches, we can see that Mays Abu Ghosh grew up with terrorists, joined a student group linked to terrorists and that glorifies terrorists, met with terrorists herself, and was caught making two firebombs.

(full article online)









						Israel sentences Palestinian student to prison. Usual suspects defend her. But is she innocent?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

I'm thinking that nothing the Islamic terrorists do with regard to using their welfare money to promote Islamic terrorism will cause the EU to suspend payments.











						The PA is trying to hide its payments to terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

Ever since PMW first notified the donor countries of the PA’s use of their money to pay salaries to terrorist prisoners, the PA is doing everything it can to confuse and distract its donors.




					palwatch.org
				




*The PA is trying to hide its payments to terrorists*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv., Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 6, 2020

Ever since PMW first notified the donor countries of that the PA was using their money to pay salaries to terrorist prisoners, the PA has been doing everything it can to confuse and distract its donors. In 2014, the PA closed the PA Ministry of Prisoners’ Affairs, and in 2015 it created the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs. In 2018, it reopened the PA Ministry of Prisoners’ Affairs and in 2019 it changed its name to the Commission for Detainees’ Affairs. Now in 2020, it is trying to hide its payments by moving them once again from the PA to the PLO.
The PA’s monthly “budget performance reports” which are supposed to be a transparent reflection of its real expenses for the benefit of donor countries, do not list even one shekel of payment to terrorist prisoners in its 2020 expenditures. Yet the PA Prime Minister openly announced in March that the PA is paying prisoners’ salaries, and is even giving them priority. Clearly the PA’s published “transparent” reports are just a charade to distract donors.
The Palestinian Authority’s monthly financial documents for 2020 show that the PA is, again, trying to hide its monthly salary payments to the Palestinian terrorist prisoners from the international community. Its monthly budget performance reports for 2018 and 2019 openly listed the salaries to terrorist prisoners as expenditures of the PA Ministry of Prisoners’ Affairs. However, since the beginning of 2020, there is no listing at all for the Ministry of Prisoners’ Affairs.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:*  This says it all...  "(Except) The “unlawful association” that Mays, a fourth-year student in the media department at Bir Zeit University, is accused of belonging to is the left-wing students’ organization, Qutub. Israeli authorities claim that Qutub is affiliated with the outlawed Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine,* but the student group denies any such connection."*



Sixties Fan said:


> Paragraph 2.4 of Mays’ charge sheet is particularly serious: “In August 2019, or a proximate date, the accused spoke with Kutzi Masalmeh, Lian Elkaid and Samah Gradath about holding a summer camp for the organization [Qutub], and wondered how to go about it in the light of the detention of a number of people.”


*(COMMENT)*

This all started with the incitement to commit such a heinous act of terrorism.     

The Israeli Police and Security  Services need to determine to what extent the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) was involved --- or to what extent they incited the intital incident:


​   Even though the HoAP has degraded themselves to the point where they think this is somehow lawful _(compromised moral values)_, for the rest of us, we would like to know just how indoctrinated the son and daughter were relative to *perpetrating a stabbing attack* in the settlement of Beit Horon.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Amnesty Intl. doesn't seem to understand that totalitarian Islamic enclaves maintain their hold on power through oppression and the suppression of freedom of expression.     












						Palestine: End arbitrary detention of critics in West Bank and Gaza
					

The authorities in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip have violated the right to freedom of expression by arbitrarily detaining individuals solely for peacefully sharing their views on social media. This must immediately stop




					www.amnesty.org
				




The Fatah-led Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and the Hamas de facto administration in the Gaza Strip must halt violations of the right to freedom of expression, in particular arbitrary detentions, and immediately and unconditionally release all those who have been detained solely for peacefully expressing their views, said Amnesty International today as it published a detailed statement outlining a pattern of arbitrary arrests against people who have criticized the authorities amid the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.


----------



## Hollie

Oh my, infidels. There are Israeli plots underway including other co-conspirators. 

What's an Islamic terrorist enclave to do?



_On May 5, 2020, Fatah's Media Council of Gaza posted a video on Facebook and YouTube accusing Facebook other social media platforms of "fighting Palestinian media content." According to the video, Facebook has shut down pages belonging to journalists and activists in a "continuous effort to hide the truth in light of Israeli plots."_





__





						Fatah Gaza Media Council Video: Facebook Is Fighting Palestinian Content. Twitter, Instagram, and Whatsapp Are Doing It Too
					





					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli and PA health departments meet regularly to coordinate action and share vital information. Troops from the IDF's Coordinator for Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) are organising joint training for medical teams. Israel provides test kits, laboratory supplies, medicines and personal protective equipment for Palestinian health workers.
Some Palestinian Arab leaders today seem to prefer that their own people succumb to disease rather than cooperate with Israel. While Palestinians and Israelis on the ground pull together against Coronavirus.... articles in official Palestinian Authority publications assert that Israel is deliberately spreading the infection and trying to contaminate Palestinian prisoners, using Coronavirus as a biological weapon. Of course, Israel-haters in both mainstream and social media are only too eager to amplify such defamatory and divisive outbursts.
A recent Coronavirus op-ed in the _Washington Post_ demanded that Israel "lift the siege on Gaza". Predictably, the author ignores the fact that Israel's lawful blockade of the Gaza Strip -- also imposed by Egypt -- is in place for one reason only: the regime there remains intent on using Gaza as a base for terrorist attacks against both Israel and Egypt. But even in Gaza, a form of cooperation has been achieved.
Israel-haters don't want to know this, but what the author calls for is of course exactly what has been happening since the Coronavirus outbreak.

(full article online)









						Palestinians, Israel and the Coronavirus
					

Israeli and PA health departments meet regularly to coordinate action and share vital information. Troops from the IDF's Coordinator for Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) are organising joint training for medical teams. Israel provides




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians are in an uproar over the revelation that Jordanian-based Cairo-Amman Bank has suddenly closed the accounts of Palestinians who are getting salaries from the PLO for their terror activities.

Former prisoners who are guaranteed a lifetime salary, indexed to the number of Jews they killed, were surprised that their ATM cards were disabled. They then received notices from the bank saying they should transfer their funds to other banks.

This decision by the bank appears to have been a reaction to the IDF saying that it will start to crack down on terror financing starting May 9, which now defines paying terrorists as a prohibited terror financing operation.

Palestinian Media Watch sent a series of letters to presidents of banks that operate in the territories warning them that by facilitating these payments they can open themselves up to personal criminal liability, and they can expose their banks to civil lawsuits from terror victims and seizure of the accounts.

Recently, the Palestinian Authority has tried to hide its budget item to pay prisoners from European auditors, by laundering the payments through a general fund of payments to its parent PLO organization. The same amount that they proudly mentioned in last year's budget going to the  PA Ministry of Prisoners’ Affairs, which pays the lifetime salaries,  has been added to the unauditable "PLO Institutions."

(full article online)









						Cairo-Amman Bank closes accounts of #PayForSlay terrorists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Thursday, human rights group Amnesty International blasted Palestinian regimes in Judea and Samaria and the Gaza Strip for arresting those critical of their policies.

Ironically, an Amnesty employee was at the center of one of the more egregious incidents involving Hamas’ crackdown on freedom of expression.

In mid-April, Amnesty’s Hind Khoudary, who identified herself as an “international research consultant” for the organization, exposed journalist Rami Aman of the Gaza Youth Committee for participating in a video conference with Israelis on Zoom to strategize responses to the coronavirus pandemic.

(full article online)









						Amnesty Blasts Palestinians for Jailing Dissenters, Fails to Mention Employee Who Turned in 'Collaborator' | United with Israel
					

The human rights group criticized the Palestinians for jailing dissenters, despite the fact that one of its own operatives turned in an innocent Palestinian for daring to work with Israelis during the corona pandemic.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

The ummah is in a bit of a kerfuffle. The unthinkable is now happening. 











						Saudi TV network accused of ‘promoting normalisation’ with Israel
					

Critics demand Saudi-owned channel cancel Ramadan series that praises Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




*Saudi TV network accused of 'promoting normalisation' with Israel*

Critics demand Saudi-owned channel cancel Ramadan series that praises Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.


----------



## Mindful

Is Lebanon using the coronavirus pandemic to carry out ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?

A directive issued on May 1 by the Lebanese General Security, an agency responsible for immigration in Lebanon, bars, until further notice, the return of "foreign maids" and Palestinian refugees, even if their families have lived in Lebanon for generations. In the eyes of the Lebanese, there is apparently no difference between a "foreign maid" and a Palestinian Arab.

A Palestinian born and raised in an Arab country, in other words, is still considered by that Arab country to be a foreigner.

The May 1 directive, signed by Brigadier General Walid Oun, director of general security at the Rafik Hariri International Airport in Beirut, says, "accompanying maids and people of Palestinian descent" may not board Lebanese expatriate evacuation flights. These are Palestinians from Lebanon who left the country to search for work and are now seeking to return home.

Apartheid and Coronavirus in the Middle East


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Is Lebanon using the coronavirus pandemic to carry out ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
> 
> A directive issued on May 1 by the Lebanese General Security, an agency responsible for immigration in Lebanon, bars, until further notice, the return of "foreign maids" and Palestinian refugees, even if their families have lived in Lebanon for generations. In the eyes of the Lebanese, there is apparently no difference between a "foreign maid" and a Palestinian Arab.
> 
> A Palestinian born and raised in an Arab country, in other words, is still considered by that Arab country to be a foreigner.
> 
> The May 1 directive, signed by Brigadier General Walid Oun, director of general security at the Rafik Hariri International Airport in Beirut, says, "accompanying maids and people of Palestinian descent" may not board Lebanese expatriate evacuation flights. These are Palestinians from Lebanon who left the country to search for work and are now seeking to return home.
> 
> Apartheid and Coronavirus in the Middle East


Allow me to add more confusion to your already confused mind.
Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. How did they qualify to run for President in the US?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Lebanon using the coronavirus pandemic to carry out ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
> 
> A directive issued on May 1 by the Lebanese General Security, an agency responsible for immigration in Lebanon, bars, until further notice, the return of "foreign maids" and Palestinian refugees, even if their families have lived in Lebanon for generations. In the eyes of the Lebanese, there is apparently no difference between a "foreign maid" and a Palestinian Arab.
> 
> A Palestinian born and raised in an Arab country, in other words, is still considered by that Arab country to be a foreigner.
> 
> The May 1 directive, signed by Brigadier General Walid Oun, director of general security at the Rafik Hariri International Airport in Beirut, says, "accompanying maids and people of Palestinian descent" may not board Lebanese expatriate evacuation flights. These are Palestinians from Lebanon who left the country to search for work and are now seeking to return home.
> 
> Apartheid and Coronavirus in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> Allow me to add more confusion to your already confused mind.
> Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. How did they qualify to run for President in the US?
Click to expand...


Don’t know. And don’t care.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Lebanon using the coronavirus pandemic to carry out ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
> 
> A directive issued on May 1 by the Lebanese General Security, an agency responsible for immigration in Lebanon, bars, until further notice, the return of "foreign maids" and Palestinian refugees, even if their families have lived in Lebanon for generations. In the eyes of the Lebanese, there is apparently no difference between a "foreign maid" and a Palestinian Arab.
> 
> A Palestinian born and raised in an Arab country, in other words, is still considered by that Arab country to be a foreigner.
> 
> The May 1 directive, signed by Brigadier General Walid Oun, director of general security at the Rafik Hariri International Airport in Beirut, says, "accompanying maids and people of Palestinian descent" may not board Lebanese expatriate evacuation flights. These are Palestinians from Lebanon who left the country to search for work and are now seeking to return home.
> 
> Apartheid and Coronavirus in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> Allow me to add more confusion to your already confused mind.
> Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. How did they qualify to run for President in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t know. And don’t care.
Click to expand...

Indeed, that is why Zionists post stupid stuff.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Lebanon using the coronavirus pandemic to carry out ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
> 
> A directive issued on May 1 by the Lebanese General Security, an agency responsible for immigration in Lebanon, bars, until further notice, the return of "foreign maids" and Palestinian refugees, even if their families have lived in Lebanon for generations. In the eyes of the Lebanese, there is apparently no difference between a "foreign maid" and a Palestinian Arab.
> 
> A Palestinian born and raised in an Arab country, in other words, is still considered by that Arab country to be a foreigner.
> 
> The May 1 directive, signed by Brigadier General Walid Oun, director of general security at the Rafik Hariri International Airport in Beirut, says, "accompanying maids and people of Palestinian descent" may not board Lebanese expatriate evacuation flights. These are Palestinians from Lebanon who left the country to search for work and are now seeking to return home.
> 
> Apartheid and Coronavirus in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> Allow me to add more confusion to your already confused mind.
> Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. How did they qualify to run for President in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t know. And don’t care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that is why Zionists post stupid stuff.
Click to expand...


So you keep saying.


----------



## Hollie

__





						hamas news - Search
					






					www.bing.com
				




“The annexation project in the West Bank is the most dangerous Judaization plan targeting the Palestinian land, and it constitutes the theft of 38 percent of the West Bank,” Hamas spokesman Abdul-Latif Qanua said. 



You need to get your mind right, Abdul. Think of this as a modernization and Islamic terrorist control  plan. 

On the other hand, it's a reason for Hamas to spend their welfare money on a massive new tunnel building program.


----------



## Hollie

Zuhair Arafat...

No, wait, could it....?










						Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
					

Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity


----------



## Mindful

It’s just Zionist gossip.


----------



## Hollie

An interesting development and another method to control the Islamic terrorists. Ultimately, its funding that allows Islamic terrorists to pursue their ideological goals of gee-had. 


*No pay to slay? Fearing Israel law, Palestinian bank blocks terrorists’ accounts*









						No pay to slay? Fearing Israel law, Palestinian bank blocks terrorists’ accounts
					

Military decree set to take effect Saturday, applying anti-terror law to West Bank and holding banks liable for PA stipends to attackers and their families




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*Military decree set to take effect Saturday, applying anti-terror law to West Bank and holding banks liable for PA stipends to attackers and their families*

At least one bank operating in the West Bank has blocked access to accounts of Palestinians convicted of terror offenses, days before an Israeli military decree imposing sanctions on banks for financially rewarding terrorism takes effect, according to a report and a monitoring group, prompting the Palestinian Authority to form a committee to fight the Israeli measure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Zuhair Arafat...
> 
> No, wait, could it....?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity


Why do you link to liars?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat...
> 
> No, wait, could it....?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you link to liars?
Click to expand...

Why are you befuddled?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBREF:  Posting #16504, supra*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al

*BLUF:*  Your implication is directed against The Times of Israel rather than the content of the Article.  This is called an ad hominem accusation _(a logical fallacy)_.
,


P F Tinmore said:


> Why do yo link to liars?


*(QUESTION on the IMPLICATION)*

So what makes you think something about the story is untrue or that the media outlet published content untrue?

_Footnote______________________________
*1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*

Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud was on a roll per the Memri article railing against both varying numbers of Pal refugees and reports of Israeli plans to annex portions of the Jordan Valley.

Mahmoud was especially focused on a threat to abandon agreements with Israel and the Great Satan. I understand the PA has security agreements with Israel but I was never clear as to whether those had any meaningful / practical purpose. The PA's relentless promotion and abetting of Islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israel suggests that there is very little the PA is doing to aid in security. 











						Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas: If Israel Announces Plans To Annex Even A Single Centimeter Of Jordan Valley, Dead Sea, Settlements, Cave Of The Patriarchs, The Palestinian Authority Will Consider Itself No Longer Bound By Any Of Its Agreements 
					

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said in a May 5, 2020 address that was posted on the Facebook page of Palestine TV t...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> *SUBREF:  Posting #16504, supra*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al
> 
> *BLUF:*  Your implication is directed against The Times of Israel rather than the content of the Article.  This is called an ad hominem accusation _(a logical fallacy)_.
> ,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do yo link to liars?
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION on the IMPLICATION)*
> 
> So what makes you think something about the story is untrue or that the media outlet published content untrue?
> 
> _Footnote______________________________
> *1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
> Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A lie about a key issue changes the whole story. If that lie is consistent across platforms, it is planned propaganda to foster a specific narrative.

Hamas has ruled Gaza since seizing the territory from the rival Palestinian Authority in a bloody coup in 2007, 









						Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
					

Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity




					www.timesofisrael.com
				



A little reading of history show that this is not true.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al

*BLUF:* Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... You are merely reciting what the Islamist group Hamas wants repeated.



P F Tinmore said:


> A lie about a key issue changes the whole story. If that lie is consistent across platforms, it is planned propaganda to foster a specific narrative.
> 
> Hamas has ruled Gaza since seizing the territory from the rival Palestinian Authority in a bloody coup in 2007,​​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little reading of history show that this is not true.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm quite sure that the Arab Palestinians really love and appreciated the last decade of HAMAS prosperity.  Yeah ranked 119th on the Human Development Index versus Israeel which is ranks 22nd on the HDI _(the highest of any country in the Middle East and North Africa or higher than any of member nations of the Arab League)_.

*(LISTEN to NPR LINKs)*


			
				Hear NPR's Madeleine Brand and Charles Levinson of London's 'Daily Telegraph said:
			
		

> Masked members of the military wing of Hamas take files from an office after they captured the headquarters of the Preventative Security Force, loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in Gaza.
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, looters ransacked buildings and supporters of the Islamist group Hamas celebrated in the streets after its gunmen routed fighters of the Fatah movement after six days of bloody fighting that left more than 100 Palestinians dead.







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

There's a good article in jpost about a rumored prisoner swap that the Israelis are negotiating with the Islamic terrorists. It's literally a release of convicted Islamic terrorists in Israeli prison for recovery of the remains of two Israeli soldiers. 












						Releasing terrorists doesn’t help flatten the curve
					

According to a report on Wednesday in German weekly Die Zeit, Israel is close to reaching an agreement with Hamas on a prisoner release in exchange for fallen soldiers Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul.




					www.jpost.com
				




According to a report on Wednesday in German weekly Die Zeit, Israel is close to reaching an agreement with Hamas on a prisoner release in exchange for fallen soldiers Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul.

THE TERRORIST organization that rules the Gaza Strip is not as stupid as it is evil, after all. Indeed, Hamas honchos are well aware of the value that the Jewish state places on human life in general, and on that of its own populace in particular. They also know that the Jewish state does not abandon soldiers, dead or alive, in the battlefield.

Goldin and Shaul, then, are assets just as precious to Hamas as captives Mengistu and Sayed. All four are bargaining chips to hold over Israel’s head and cash in when the time is right.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> *BLUF:* Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... You are merely reciting what the Islamist group Hamas wants repeated.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lie about a key issue changes the whole story. If that lie is consistent across platforms, it is planned propaganda to foster a specific narrative.
> 
> Hamas has ruled Gaza since seizing the territory from the rival Palestinian Authority in a bloody coup in 2007,​​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little reading of history show that this is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm quite sure that the Arab Palestinians really love and appreciated the last decade of HAMAS prosperity.  Yeah ranked 119th on the Human Development Index versus Israeel which is ranks 22nd on the HDI _(the highest of any country in the Middle East and North Africa or higher than any of member nations of the Arab League)_.
> 
> *(LISTEN to NPR LINKs)*
> 
> 
> 
> Hear NPR's Madeleine Brand and Charles Levinson of London's 'Daily Telegraph said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Masked members of the military wing of Hamas take files from an office after they captured the headquarters of the Preventative Security Force, loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in Gaza.
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, looters ransacked buildings and supporters of the Islamist group Hamas celebrated in the streets after its gunmen routed fighters of the Fatah movement after six days of bloody fighting that left more than 100 Palestinians dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You ducked my post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> *BLUF:* Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... You are merely reciting what the Islamist group Hamas wants repeated.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lie about a key issue changes the whole story. If that lie is consistent across platforms, it is planned propaganda to foster a specific narrative.
> 
> Hamas has ruled Gaza since seizing the territory from the rival Palestinian Authority in a bloody coup in 2007,​​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza man charged with funneling money to Hamas in West Bank
> 
> 
> Zuhair Arafat accused of conspiring with members of Palestinian organization, transferring NIS 100,000 intended for its terror activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little reading of history show that this is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm quite sure that the Arab Palestinians really love and appreciated the last decade of HAMAS prosperity.  Yeah ranked 119th on the Human Development Index versus Israeel which is ranks 22nd on the HDI _(the highest of any country in the Middle East and North Africa or higher than any of member nations of the Arab League)_.
> 
> *(LISTEN to NPR LINKs)*
> 
> 
> 
> Hear NPR's Madeleine Brand and Charles Levinson of London's 'Daily Telegraph said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Masked members of the military wing of Hamas take files from an office after they captured the headquarters of the Preventative Security Force, loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in Gaza.
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, looters ransacked buildings and supporters of the Islamist group Hamas celebrated in the streets after its gunmen routed fighters of the Fatah movement after six days of bloody fighting that left more than 100 Palestinians dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ducked my post.
Click to expand...

You cut and pasted a predictable slogan.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al

*BLUF:* Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... That is your standard come-back. * IF* I missed a salient point on your post, *THEN* tell me what I missed.



P F Tinmore said:


> You ducked my post.


*(COMMENT)*

Be specific...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Insanity has a definition: _the act of knowingly and willfully showering Islamic terrorists with welfare money_












						Top Jewish Group Calls European Union Funding of Palestinian NGOs That Employ Terrorists ‘Incomprehensible’
					

Hamas terrorists. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. The American Jewish Committee (AJC) expressed concern on Thursday after a European Union (EU) official …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




The American Jewish Committee (AJC) expressed concern on Thursday after a European Union (EU) official said to funding NGOs that hire Palestinian terrorists would be maintained.

In a letter to the Palestinian NGO Network (PNGO), Sven Kühn von Burgsdorff — the head of the EU Office to the West Bank and Gaza Strip — affirmed the EU’s continued support to Palestinian NGOs despite the employment of members of terror organizations proscribed by the EU itself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> *BLUF:* Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... That is your standard come-back. * IF* I missed a salient point on your post, *THEN* tell me what I missed.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You ducked my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Be specific...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There was no Hamas coup.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people
					

Oops! He just proved that the concept was only created a few decades ago!




					israelunwired.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people
> 
> 
> Oops! He just proved that the concept was only created a few decades ago!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelunwired.com


“Palestinian” people is a new concept that came about in the 1960s.​
There were no Palestinian people, They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.



*They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.*

They invaded from the Arabian Peninsula.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people
> 
> 
> Oops! He just proved that the concept was only created a few decades ago!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelunwired.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestinian” people is a new concept that came about in the 1960s.​
> There were no Palestinian people, They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.
Click to expand...

Your allah god didn't invent the "Palestinian people." That was done by Arafat when he invented the Pals as a national identity.


----------



## Hollie

*PA banks heed PMW warning and start closing terrorist bank accounts*
Maurice Hirsch Adv. and Itamar Marcus    May 7, 2020        

PA banks heed PMW warning and start closing terrorist bank accounts | PMW Analysis

*PMW cracks the weakest link in the PA’s “Pay for Slay” payments* 
*Banks closing “will anger the prisoners’ family members and various groups in the Palestinian people”* 
*PMW will be watching closely to see how the PA will attempt to transfer monthly salaries amounting to nearly 50 million shekels to 6,000 terrorist prisoners, without using the banking system  *


----------



## Hollie

Another conspiracy theory floated by the Pals. They're accusing Facebook of shutting down pages used by Islamic terrorists " .._.in light of Israeli plot_s."

There are times when it seems that every waking moment of a Pal-Arab's life is seeking out Jew conspiracy theories as a way to explain the miserable existence they create for themselves. -



On May 5, 2020, Fatah's Media Council of Gaza posted a video on Facebook and YouTube accusing Facebook other social media platforms of "fighting Palestinian media content." According to the video, Facebook has shut down pages belonging to journalists and activists in a "continuous effort to hide the truth in light of Israeli plots."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people
> 
> 
> Oops! He just proved that the concept was only created a few decades ago!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelunwired.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestinian” people is a new concept that came about in the 1960s.​
> There were no Palestinian people, They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your allah god didn't invent the "Palestinian people." That was done by Arafat when he invented the Pals as a national identity.
Click to expand...

You missed the point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people
> 
> 
> Oops! He just proved that the concept was only created a few decades ago!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israelunwired.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestinian” people is a new concept that came about in the 1960s.​
> There were no Palestinian people, They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your allah god didn't invent the "Palestinian people." That was done by Arafat when he invented the Pals as a national identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point.
Click to expand...

You never made a point,


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Al-Jazeera Network: MBC TV's Ramadan Programming Promotes Normalization Of Relations With Israel, 'Demonizes The Palestinians And Turn The Jews Into Angels'
					

On April 28, 2020, Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) aired a report by one of its journalists, Lebanese national Fatima Triki, ...




					www.memri.org
				




_On April 28, 2020, Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) aired a report by one of its journalists, Lebanese national Fatima Triki, criticizing MBC TV, a Saudi channel that broadcasts from the UAE. The report was posted on YouTube under the title "After Its Desecration of the Values... MBC Demonizes the Palestinians and Turns the Jews into Angels." It claimed that recent Ramadan MBC series "Makhraj 7" and "Umm Haroun" promote normalization of Arab relations with Israel. Triki's report focuses on a segment in "Makhraj 7", in which characters are shown describing the Palestinians as shameless and ungrateful for the support they receive from other countries. _


----------



## Hollie

I think we need to alert the UN. 


*








						Facebook deactivates dozens of accounts of Palestinian journalists and activists
					

At least 52 Palestinians have been affected by Facebook's deactivation sweep, according to data collected by Middle East Eye




					www.middleeasteye.net
				



*
At least 52 Palestinians have been affected by Facebook's deactivation sweep, according to data collected by Middle East Eye

In the space of one day, more than 50 Palestinian journalists and activists had their profile pages deleted by Facebook, alongside a notification saying their pages had been deactivated for "not following our Community Standards."

"We have already reviewed this decision and it can't be reversed," the message continued, prompting users to read more about Facebook's Community Standards.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,


Hollie said:


> Your allah god didn't invent the "Palestinian people." That was done by Arafat when he invented the Pals as a national identity.





P F Tinmore said:


> There were no Palestinian people, They just dropped out of the sky like a gift from god.


*(COMMENT)*

This is his way of showing his contempt towards your response.

Your comment was clearly written and understood by all as to its meaning.  He has no real contribution to make so he comes up with this.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

A Palestinian rides on a road alongside Israel’s security wall in the town of Baqa al-Gharbiyya. Israel has taken seriously the continuing threat of Islamic terrorism and security walls save Israeli lives.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Another UNRWA request for millions of dollars. Has it been twelve hours already since their last request?

UNRWA wants money covering cash and food assistance. They've become very comfortable requesting cash but less comfortable identifying where that cash goes. Send your cash, infidels. UNRWA welfare money buys a lot of hate for infidel donors.







__





						UNRWA launches new coronavirus $93.4m emergency appeal for Palestine refugees
					






					english.wafa.ps
				





JERUSALEM, Friday, May 8, 2020 (WAFA) – The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) said today it was urgently seeking $93.4 million for its response to COVID-19 in the areas of health care, sanitation and hygiene and education over the next three months.

The required amount is an update from the Agency's earlier appeal, with a large portion of the funding aimed at covering cash and food assistance to this particularly vulnerable population, as the socio-economic consequences of the public health crisis continue to weigh heavily on households.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The "settlers" were said to come from nearby Shiloh - on Saturday morning.

Shiloh is a religious Jewish community, and its residents wouldn't cut down trees on the Sabbath. (Cutting down 40 olive trees would take a great deal of time and effort.)

Not one of the articles showed any uprooted or damaged trees that were not archive photos. In an age when literally everyone carries a camera in their pocket, it is inconceivable that there would be no photos of this massive destruction.

And if the Palestinians are lying about this destruction of trees, how many other times are they lying about it as well?

(full article online)









						Palestinians again lie about "settlers cutting down olive trees" on the Sabbath
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

This woman fleeing from Islamism found a safe haven in Israel and flashes the victory sign.


----------



## Hollie

Israeli soldiers protecting a woman from an attempted islamic "honor" killing.


----------



## Hollie

I'm not clear as to why the IDF doesn't destroy the islamo-drones immediately and target their launching sites. 

The Hamas Islamic terrorists will need to redirect their welfare dollars to buy more drones, but after all, it's just welfare money and that seems to fall off the infidel tree. 












						Jerusalem said to warn Hamas over drones entering Israel from Gaza
					

Palestinian newspaper reports national security adviser cautioned terror group that IDF will shoot down unmanned aircraft if cross-border flights don't stop




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Israel has warned the Hamas terror group to stop flying drones over the border between the Gaza Strip and the Jewish state, threatening to shoot them down, a Palestinian report said Saturday.

The Israel Defense Forces has allegedly spotted drones that crossed into Israeli airspace for several minutes before returning to the Strip, the Al-Quds newspaper reported.


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arabs are decrying.

Please don't make Pal-Arabs decry.












						Palestinians decry Israel's targeting of terrorists' bank accounts
					

Palestinian officials said Friday that Israel is forcing banks in the West Bank to close accounts held by the families




					www.israelhayom.com
				




The measure is another step in the efforts to counter the Palestinian Authority's "pay-for-slay" policy of paying salaries to terrorists imprisoned in Israel and the families of dead terrorists, a scheme that amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars a year*.*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* You generally neutralize an enemy passive surveillance system (like a small drone) without gaining all the exploitable information it might lead you to.



Hollie said:


> I'm not clear as to why the IDF doesn't destroy the islamo-drones immediately and target their launching sites.


*(COMMENT)*

I am quite sure that the IDF Unit 8200 is watching and determining all the characteristics of the Drone operation and might even be able to electronically jam or disable these small UAVs.  They will want to know the launch/recovery sights _(and control sights which are usually higher and forward of LandR locations)_, how many Tx/Rx channels _(and alternative channels it has)_, the practical range of the craft, the resolution of the optics, the flight duration, the effect of the weather, etc, etc, etc...  The IDF has something equivalent to either a Barrett M82A1 or an M107 50 Calibre Long-Range Sniper Rifle (LRSR).   The IDF might even be using something better, and their snipers can probably knock them right out of the air.  But the Israeli Military Intelligence will generally sit back and let the Hostiles expose their vulnerabilities.

The IDF will not want to show their hand to soon.  When it is time to execute a countermeasure, the will want the Hostile to be completely surprised.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You generally neutralize an enemy passive surveillance system (like a small drone) without gaining all the exploitable information it might lead you to.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not clear as to why the IDF doesn't destroy the islamo-drones immediately and target their launching sites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am quite sure that the IDF Unit 8200 is watching and determining all the characteristics of the Drone operation and might even be able to electronically jam or disable these small UAVs.  They will want to know the launch/recovery sights _(and control sights which are usually higher and forward of LandR locations)_, how many Tx/Rx channels _(and alternative channels it has)_, the practical range of the craft, the resolution of the optics, the flight duration, the effect of the weather, etc, etc, etc...  The IDF has something equivalent to either a Barrett M82A1 or an M107 50 Calibre Long-Range Sniper Rifle (LRSR).   The IDF might even be using something better, and their snipers can probably knock them right out of the air.  But the Israeli Military Intelligence will generally sit back and let the Hostiles expose their vulnerabilities.
> 
> The IDF will not want to show their hand to soon.  When it is time to execute a countermeasure, the will want the Hostile to be completely surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I recently saw a video of a laser system to knock out drones.


----------



## Hollie

Here we have another Hamas MP on a roll reciting the Arab-Moslem script of insensate Jew hatreds

It's as though the Hamas mini-caliphate has a program designed to breed the most dangerous sociopaths. 





__





						Hamas MP Yunis Al-Astal: Who Is More Dangerous to Humanity - COVID-19 or the Jews? The Jews Should Be Treated in Keeping with the Quranic Verse "Kill Them Wherever You May Find Them"
					





					www.memri.org
				




Hamas MP Yunis Al-Astal: Who Is More Dangerous to Humanity - COVID-19 or the Jews? The Jews Should Be Treated in Keeping with the Quranic Verse "Kill Them Wherever You May Find Them"


----------



## Hollie

Say hello again to Yunis. He’s a Hamas MP (meaning he’s a primary beneficiary of the Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicate).

You might wonder why we here in the Great Satan™️ financially supported these sociopaths for decades. You might call him a sociopath, you might call him vile but remember he’s just a pious Moslem who knows his koranology.




During a parliamentary session in Gaza, Hamas MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal recited at length quotes from the Quran, vilifying the Jews. "We do not have time to list their abominations, which merited their transformation into apes and pigs," he added, saying that due to these faults, Jewish scholars were described as "dogs," and the simple people were described as "donkeys." Al-Astal further said that Allah has gathered "those corrupters" in Palestine in order "to annihilate their corruption at the hands of His servants of great might," and ended with a recommendation to produce a generation of "servants of Allah with great might." The Gaza parliamentary session aired on Al-Quds TV (Lebanon).


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even the Coronavirus crisis is not enough to cause the Palestinian Authority stop indoctrinating Palestinians that nothing surpasses dying as a “Martyr” while murdering Israeli civilians. 





The PA’s message to carry out suicide bombings - even specifying which Israeli cities to target: Haifa and Atlit - was repeated at least 4 times in the last few weeks on an official PA TV station, which broadcast  a song and dance that was first performed in 2017 at a Palestinian cultural festival: 

(full article online)





__





						PA: Blow up Israeli civilians in Haifa and Atlit – TV song urges suicide-terror against Israel | PMW Analysis
					

“Strap on the explosive belt, detonate it in Haifa”“How sweet is the taste of Martyrdom”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Whether or not this turns out to be a global life-saver, few can doubt that Israel is in the forefront of the world’s scientific effort to develop a vaccine, antidotes and tests to combat the virus.

However, the hope that such achievements will transmute anti-Israel hostility into friendship may be stretching optimism too far.

True, there was a “flying pig” moment when the United Nations actually praised Israel, along with the Palestinian Arabs, over their “unprecedented co-operation on efforts aimed at containing the epidemic.”

Israel’s efforts over this have indeed been unstinting.

An estimated 40,000 laborers from the disputed territories have been granted permits to stay in Israel until the end of Ramadan. The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) has given them safe transit from their homes into their workplaces across the Green Line. Israeli employers are responsible for providing these workers with accommodation, as well as with protective masks and gloves. The Israeli authorities will even provide them with health insurance.

Such cooperation is even taking place in Hamas-run Gaza—the source of never-ending murderous attacks on Israel. Not only does COGAT facilitate international-aid deliveries there, such as testing equipment, protective garments, disinfectant, medical stocks and other humanitarian supplies. In addition, dozens of Gazan doctors, nurses and other medical workers have been trained by Israeli teams to treat patients infected with COVID-19.

(full article online)









						Israel still suffers virus of hate even as it saves Arab lives
					

The hope that such medical equipment and know-how—and maybe even the development of a vaccine—will transmute anti-Israel hostility into friendship may be stretching optimism too far.




					www.jns.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  et al,

The International Community has had blinders on ever since the creation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964 and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) in 1987.   Even though the International Community, after creating two international conventions _(December 1965 and December 1966),_ they have consistently turned away from challenging the PLA/PA and HAMAS with the "incitement" clauses.

*BLUF:* The protection of national security or of public order, or of public health or morals is covered under Article 19(2) of the CCPR. Each time the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) or the Palestinian Authority (PLO-FATAH) they violate the postulate that "discrimination between human beings on the grounds of race, colour or ethnic origin is an obstacle to friendly and peaceful relations among nations and is capable of disturbing peace and security among peoples and the harmony of persons living side by side even within one and the same State."



Sixties Fan said:


> Even the Coronavirus crisis is not enough to cause the Palestinian Authority stop indoctrinating Palestinians that nothing surpasses dying as a “Martyr” while murdering Israeli civilians.
> 
> The PA’s message to carry out suicide bombings - even specifying which Israeli cities to target: Haifa and Atlit


*(COMMENT)*

There are two implications found under these key laws:  Article 20(2) of the CCPR and  Article 4(a) of CERD. And the implication conflict with some basic ideas which the Hostile Arab Palestinians insist should be theirs.

◈  Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. ​◈  The right to freedom of movement and residence within the border of the State.​
 But the basic laws pertaining to incitement are found here:

_*Article 20 *_International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​_*Article 4 *_ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD)​(a) Shall declare an offence punishable by law all dissemination of ideas based on racial superiority or hatred, *incitement* to racial discrimination, as well as all acts of violence or incitement to such acts against any race or group of persons of another colour or ethnic origin, and also the provision of any assistance to racist activities, including the financing thereof;​
*IF* the International Community is going to chastise Israel for its conduct, *THEN* it must step up to the plate and call the conduct by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in violation.

Much of the history of the conflict was ignited by HoAP incitement to violence.  *IF* the Arab Palestinians, and by extension their government, could be labeled, *THEN* they are instigators and purveyors of suffering from chronic and dysfunctional people which promotes politically abnormal or violent social behaviors. The HoAP and their fractured support mechanism from the general population lack any kind of conscience for the violence they promoted.
 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Israeli soldiers rescue a Palestinian man seeking asylum in Israel

,


----------



## Hollie

An Israeli soldier protects a Palestinian journalist.


----------



## Hollie

The lovely Hamas MP, Cleric, pious Moslem and sociopath, Yunis al-Astal, has more of the same messages about Jew killing but theses are now Allah approved messages. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/05/11/hamas-mp-says-israeli-annexation-violates-allahs-will/
		






Hamas Parliament member and cleric Yunis al-Astal  said in a parliament session last week that Israeli annexation of parts of Judea and Samaria would constitute a crime against the will of Allah, and called for the parliament to recommend the murder of Jews "wherever they may be found."


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBREF:  Crimes Against the Will of Allah
SOLUTION:  Murder of Jews "Wherever They May be Found."** (Quran 2:191)*
⁜→   et al,

*SIDEBAR:*  In the interest of accuracy, the Passage 2:191 reads (translated)
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them
from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse
than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al-Haram until
they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. 
Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.​
You just have to love these extremists and "Pious Moslem" Clerics.
_Rocco The Disbeliever,_





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Gantlemagne

MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forget that not all Zionists are Jews and not all muslims are arabs. I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good point.  The roots of Zionism do indeed go way back in Christianity.
Click to expand...

Zion was actually the name of the capital city of the Egyptian Levant province of Canaan, so Zionism is more of a reference to before Israel existed and there was Canaan.  I am also a Zionist of this strain and think that the Greek and Latin people are the original inhabitants of Canaan, the Philistines, named after Aphrodite, Philia.  And Hesiod records the story of Osiris and Set as Uranus and Saturn/Typhon rearrange python.  Theogony is the story of Exodus from the Egyptian perspective. Troy was most likely a Philistine Greek City, a "son" of Aphrodite.


----------



## Gantlemagne

Hollie said:


> The lovely Hamas MP, Cleric, pious Moslem and sociopath, Yunis al-Astal, has more of the same messages about Jew killing but theses are now Allah approved messages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/05/11/hamas-mp-says-israeli-annexation-violates-allahs-will/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Parliament member and cleric Yunis al-Astal  said in a parliament session last week that Israeli annexation of parts of Judea and Samaria would constitute a crime against the will of Allah, and called for the parliament to recommend the murder of Jews "wherever they may be found."


Time for Shiva's Karma to work on the Muslim hierarchy, goes straight to Mecca and the Saudi mufti and his king.


----------



## Gantlemagne

Art__Allm said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Cannot you understand your own links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, they believe that he was the son of a virgin, and this occured by the decree of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result ofvirginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah).
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have the second time ignored my question.
> 
> Who is Jesus according to the Talmud?
> Are you afraid to answer this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is not supported by Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?
Click to expand...

The Saudi funded Muslim Brotherhood is who is behind the Muslim terrorist Islamic state.  But, if you are referring to Godmother Isis, then that may be a different answer.


----------



## Gantlemagne

Art__Allm said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
Click to expand...

There is support for a Christian State of Israel, and there is the Reformed Jewish religion, which is more as Christianity.  I, as a Christian, a Muslim Arab League nation, in the Levant will never support.  Not after the Khartoum Declaration and because the Muslim religion, from My interpretation of Surah 22:78 and knowing that only an Arabic Koran is considered a valid Muslim, that the same applies to Arab and non-Arab Muslims as Korans; and is therefore a cult of Arab supremacy, and that is only what it is.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Gantlemagne, et al,

*BLUF: * That is an interesting observation.  But the current Royal Family Leadership is - I don't think - of a mind to get involved with the dwindling factions like the Muslim Brotherhood (MB)_(a transnational Sunni Islamist group)_.  Even in Egypt, there is a strong internal security effort to breakdown the MB Organization.  The Qatari Government is a major and open funding source from the MB Splinter Groups in Disputed Palestinian Territories.  While the faucet from Saudi Arabian Extremist is not completely closed, it does not generate the revenue it once did.  



Gantlemagne said:


> The Saudi funded Muslim Brotherhood is who is behind the Muslim terrorist Islamic state.  But, if you are referring to Godmother Isis, then that may be a different answer.


*(COMMENT)*

In 2016, the view of the Egyptian Government towards the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) became very rough after the assassination of a high ranking official within the State Judicial Office _(by car bomb)_, Egyptian Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat.  The General Directorate for State Security Investigations (GDSSI) made no effort to hide the fact that they believed HAMAS played a major role.  Consequently, the Egyptian Government made HAMAS cut its ties with any MB remnant.  And in the Spring of 2016, Sami Abu Zuhri Chief Spokesperson for HAMAS, denied any _(operational, political, or donor)_ links between HAMAS and the Muslim Brotherhood.  As recently as last September (2019) Saudi Arabian Security Services arrested 11 members of HAMAS.  And in 2019 the Saudi Security Services complemented the operations of the International Financial Action Task Force (FATF) through the enforcement of  *1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism* which resulted in over 1700 investigations and convictions in a seven-year period.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

A meeting of three Islamic terrorist franchises may be in the works. I’d suggest a frisking and stroll through a metal detector for theses fine folks before they’re in a room together. 

On the other hand, maybe not. 

If the Islamic terrorist franchises choose to step up the gee-had against Israel and launch attacks, that might be an impetus for Israel move quickly and reclaim lands occupied by the Islamic Terrorist Entity. 












						PA invites Hamas, Islamic Jihad to meeting on Israeli 'annexation'
					

Gaza factions warn Israel not to implement plan




					m.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian Authority has invited representatives of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) to attend a meeting of the Palestinian leadership to discuss Israel’s plan to apply sovereignty to parts of the West Bank.

Hamas and PIJ, which don’t recognize Israel’s right to exist, have repeatedly called on PA President Mahmoud Abbas to walk away from the 1993 Oslo Accords and cut all ties with Israel. They have also called for stepping up “resistance” activities in the West Bank in response to protest the Israeli plan.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied. 









						Terrorist Shot After Attempted Stabbing Attack at Checkpoint Near Yerushalayim - Hamodia.com
					

A Palestinian terrorist was shot on Tuesday while attempting to stab Israeli security forces manning the Kalandiya checkpoint, north of Yerushalayim. The



					hamodia.com
				




*YERUSHALAYIM* - 
A Palestinian terrorist was shot on Tuesday while attempting to stab Israeli security forces manning the Kalandiya checkpoint, north of Yerushalayim.

The terrorist, said to be in his 30s, was “neutralized” and was taken to a hospital in Yerushalayim in serious condition

No Israelis were injured in the attack, baruch Hashem.

The Kalandiya checkpoint has been the site of multiple terrorist attacks over the years.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This poem, illustrated with the face of a girl wearing the keffiyeh, ends off with "The way to Palestine is through the barrel of a gun."





Anyone who tells you that the keffiyeh is a peaceful symbol of unity is lying, and probably knowingly so.

(full article online)









						World Keffiyeh Day - Celebrating a symbol of terror and violence
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It may be that I'm just being _culturally insensitive™_ but the Arab-Moslem worship of social misfits / mass murderers is truly disturbing.

We don't live in a perfect world. There are cultures, religions, societies, and governments that are superior to others. To acknowledge this has nothing to do with racism, intolerance, or hatred. To ignore it does. A culture that worships death in the pursuit of mass murder and exploits its children as a disposable commodity in furtherance of hate is backward, repressive, dangerous, and hostile to human rights and liberty.  We here in the West have  embraced a way of life which fosters respect for the individual, pluralism for the immigrant, and peaceful integration for all who love freedom. It doesn't make us better than anyone, but it surely makes us _better off_ than those living under the tyranny of Islamic sociopathy. 




*PA: Terrorist murderers are “The Giants of Palestinian History”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2020




Who are “The Giants of Palestinian History”? According to the PA, the murderers of Israelis are the ones who deserve this distinction.

The Palestinian Authority continuously emphasizes that anyone who ever attacked an Israeli is a hero. As the greatest role models for Palestinian society PA leaders present the imprisoned terrorist murderers and those who “died as Martyrs” while attacking Israelis. Not only in word, but also in deed by generously rewarding the terrorists with life-long salaries, while in prison and beyond, as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed and continues to document.


----------



## Hollie

Pallywood Productions.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem sore loser.


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in that little slice of degeneracy called Pal-Arabia.


----------



## Hollie

It seems that once again, Arabs-Moslems are their own worst enemies.

No mention of Jews. Someone should alert the fatwa police.



Palestinian-Syrian Journalist Ahmad Azzam: No One Represents Us; Hamas Leaders Shake Hands with Iranian Murderers, PA Supports the Murderers in the Syrian Regime.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

I never quite thought of it that way.  But if you rule-out Yassar Arafat _(who BTW is the Palestinians only Nobel Laureate) _then the only consistent people they memorialize for are all terrorists.



EXCERPT • Hollie said:


> *PA: Terrorist murderers are “The Giants of Palestinian History”*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are “The Giants of Palestinian History”? According to the PA, the murderers of Israelis are the ones who deserve this distinction.


*(COMMENT)*

It is a shame really.  They are a culture that believes suicide and murder are interpreted as morals that their religion promotes as accepted value.  Whereas, most western cultures are the exact opposite.

For a while, I thought that Mahmoud Abbas would be praised as the father of the modern country of Palestine.  But under his watch, much of the 1948 allocation dissolved in his hands.  So that leaves him out.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I never quite thought of it that way.  But if you rule-out Yassar Arafat _(who BTW is the Palestinians only Nobel Laureate) _then the only consistent people they memorialize for are all terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA: Terrorist murderers are “The Giants of Palestinian History”*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are “The Giants of Palestinian History”? According to the PA, the murderers of Israelis are the ones who deserve this distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a shame really.  They are a culture that believes suicide and murder are interpreted as morals that their religion promotes as accepted value.  Whereas, most western cultures are the exact opposite.
> 
> For a while, I thought that Mahmoud Abbas would be praised as the father of the modern country of Palestine.  But under his watch, much of the 1948 allocation dissolved in his hands.  So that leaves him out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*But if you rule-out Yassar Arafat (who BTW is the Palestinians only Nobel Laureate) then the only consistent people they memorialize for are all terrorists.*

Ummmm......Arafat was a terrorist.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Toddsterpatriot, et al,


RoccoR said:


> *But if you rule-out Yassar Arafat (who BTW is the Palestinians only Nobel Laureate) then the only consistent people they memorialize for are all terrorists.*





Toddsterpatriot said:


> Ummmm......Arafat was a terrorist.


*(COMMENT)*

Ah, Yeah!  That is what happens to be an absurd and self-contradictory statement.  But it happens.

Arafat the terrorist becomes a world-renowned peacemaker.   _*(It must be Magic!)*_
There must be a political alchemist in the background. _* (Absurd isn't it.)*_





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian teen killed in clashes with Israeli troops
					

15-year-old Zaid Qaysia was hit in the head by a live round and four others were also wounded in Al-Fawar refugee camp near Hebron, where Israeli forces conduct a manhunt for a rock thrower who killed IDF soldier Amit Ben Yigal a day earlier




					www.ynetnews.com
				




The teenager, named Zaid Qaysia, was hit in the head by a live round and four others were also wounded in Al-Fawar refugee camp near the city of Hebron, the ministry said. 

Clashes between IDF troops and Palestinians in the West Bank

Israeli army said the clashes erupted during a raid in the area as part of Israel's efforts to locate the perpetrator who killed IDF soldier Amit Ben Yigal on Tuesday by throwing a rock at his head.


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I never quite thought of it that way.  But if you rule-out Yassar Arafat _(who BTW is the Palestinians only Nobel Laureate) _then the only consistent people they memorialize for are all terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA: Terrorist murderers are “The Giants of Palestinian History”*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are “The Giants of Palestinian History”? According to the PA, the murderers of Israelis are the ones who deserve this distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a shame really.  They are a culture that believes suicide and murder are interpreted as morals that their religion promotes as accepted value.  Whereas, most western cultures are the exact opposite.
> 
> For a while, I thought that Mahmoud Abbas would be praised as the father of the modern country of Palestine.  But under his watch, much of the 1948 allocation dissolved in his hands.  So that leaves him out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *But if you rule-out Yassar Arafat (who BTW is the Palestinians only Nobel Laureate) then the only consistent people they memorialize for are all terrorists.*
> 
> Ummmm......Arafat was a terrorist.
Click to expand...


Arafat was given the the title, "world's most successful terrorist". That seems fitting.


----------



## Hollie

From Pal Media Watch, another look into the going maw of degenerate psychopaths who have a UN sponsored welfare entitlement. 



*PA: Blow up Israeli civilians in Haifa and Atlit – TV song urges suicide-terror against Israel*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 11, 2020

*“Strap on the explosive belt, detonate it in Haifa”*
*“How sweet is the taste of Martyrdom”*
Even the Coronavirus crisis is not enough to cause the Palestinian Authority stop indoctrinating Palestinians that nothing surpasses dying as a “Martyr” while murdering Israeli civilians.



The PA’s message to carry out suicide bombings - even specifying which Israeli cities to target: Haifa and Atlit - was repeated at least 4 times in the last few weeks on an official PA TV station, which broadcast  a song and dance that was first performed in 2017 at a Palestinian cultural festival:


----------



## Hollie

It just never ends with these psychopaths.



_On May 7, 2020, Al-Aqsa TV (Gaza – Hamas) aired a police graduation ceremony. A speaker at the ceremony said: "Palestine is a mother [that says]: 'My son, come join the fight. You were not born to live, but in order to die as a martyr, blowing up your enemies in the occupation.'"_

*Speaker: *"Palestine is a mother that gives birth only to heroes. When she pushes a child out of her belly, what does she say to him? 'My son, come join the fight. You were not born to live, but in order to die as a martyr, blowing up your enemies in the occupation.'"


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian teenager killed near Hebron amid clashes in West Bank
					

The report came hours after clashes were reported overnight in the town of Ya'abad, as IDF soldiers searched for the murderer of Sergeant First Class Amit Ben Yigal.




					www.jpost.com
				




The report came hours after clashes were reported overnight in the town of Ya'abad, as IDF soldiers searched for the murderer of Sergeant First Class Amit Ben Yigal.








__





						PA: Blow up Israeli civilians in Haifa and Atlit – TV song urges suicide-terror against Israel | PMW Analysis
					

“Strap on the explosive belt, detonate it in Haifa”“How sweet is the taste of Martyrdom”




					palwatch.org
				




*“How sweet is the taste of Martyrdom”*


----------



## Hollie

The Pal Arabs have a rather skewed definition of motherhood and of a hero, one that suggests a severe mental disorder, 




*Mother of murderer: My greatest achievement in life was giving birth to a hero*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 13, 2020



As a deterrent against future terror attacks, Israel this week demolished the house of terrorist Qassam Barghouti. Barghouti was one of the terrorists who murdered the 17-year-old Israeli girl Rina Shnerb. The terrorists from the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) used a remote detonator to activate a bomb next to the Shnerb Family as they visited the Danny Spring near the town of Dolev north of Ramallah on Aug. 23, 2019. Rina was killed and her father and brother were injured.


----------



## Hollie

The Pal-Arab gee-had against Pal-Arab Banks is underway. 

I guess it was only a mattter of time before we saw this sort of depravity in Abu Mazen's mini-caliphate, sometimes called the Palestinian Authority and the Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicate.












						Palestinian Banks Targeted With Violence After Closing Accounts of Terrorists
					

A demonstration in the West Bank city of Hebron, Feb. 19, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Mussa Qawasma / File. A …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




A series of violent incidents occurred in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the last few days as Palestinians have reacted with fury to the closure of bank accounts held by terrorists imprisoned in Israel and their families, the Israeli news site _Walla_ reported.

The bank accounts were closed due to an Israeli order that the banks themselves would be considered collaborators with terrorism if the accounts — which are regularly replenished by the Palestinian Authority (PA) as part of its so-called “pay-for-slay” policy — were left open.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists representing the Hamas franchise are threatening to kidnap Israeli soldiers. Probably a bad move as this might well put the IDF in a posture to view any interaction with Pal-Arabs as a life threatening situation. 












						Haniyeh: Hamas can kidnap more Israeli soldiers
					

"Hamas will not be quiet about prisoners sitting in Israeli prisons; some of them for over 40 years already."




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh threatened that the Gaza-based terrorist organization can still kidnap more Israeli soldiers, Channel 12 reported.

Haniyeh spoke to Al Jazeera in an interview – which was held in honor of the 72nd anniversary of the Nakba – held in Doha, the capital of Qatar, as the Hamas leader has not returned to the Gaza Strip in the last two months.

The comment came while he was discussing the prisoner exchange negotiations between Hamas and Israel, as he added that he was still waiting for a breakthrough.


"We can increase our loot, our hand is strong," he said, implying that Hamas has the ability to kidnap more soldiers, which can be used as bargaining chips in following negotiations.


----------



## Hollie

The IDF was doing some landscaping in Islamic terrorist'istan as part of a neighborhood beautification program. 












						Is the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine back from the dead?
					

Behind the Lines: Iranian support appears to lie behind uptick in the terrorist group’s activities in the region.




					www.jpost.com
				




The Israel Defense Forces this week carried out the partial demolition of the home of Qassem Shibli, also known as Qassem al-Barghouti, *(aka Qassem  "no rent due this month" al-Barghouti -ed.),* in the village of Kobar, in the Ramallah area. Shibli is suspected of involvement in the murder of Rina Shnerb, 17, who was killed in an IED detonation at the Ein Bubin spring near the community of Dolev, last August.


----------



## Hossfly

*14 May 1948*


----------



## Hollie

Dead Islamic terrorist walking.


----------



## Hollie

Much of what's wrong with Pal-Arabs. 

Any questions?


----------



## Hollie

There are some apparent differences separating the angry islamists in the competing mini-caliphates of Sinwar'istan and Mahmoud'listan.

Perhaps these angry islamists could settle their differences as they did during their earlier civil war with street killings and various forms of torture. 










						Hamas, Islamic Jihad to boycott Ramallah meeting to discuss ‘annexation’
					

Hamas said in a statement that it has not received an official invitation to participate in the meeting.




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) announced on Wednesday that they would not attend a meeting of the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah this coming Saturday to discuss Israel’s plan to apply sovereignty to parts of the West Bank


----------



## Hollie

From the news service MNN (Mullah News Network)










						Resistance should be given freedom to counter Israeli annexation plot: Palestine’s Hamas
					

Hamas says the Palestinian resistance movement should be given a free hand to confront the US-Israeli schemes to consolidate Tel Aviv’s occupation of Palestine.




					www.presstv.com
				




Resistance should be given freedom to counter Israeli annexation plot: Palestine’s Hamas



Odd how Islamic terrorists use the "resistance" slogan to define their imposition of a crushing, fascist politico-religious ideology that hasn't managed to claw its way out of the Dark Ages.


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arabs are looking for more disposable children.


----------



## Hollie

The Chinese virus is a soldier of Allah. I'll bet you didn't know that.


----------



## Hollie

All the earlier islamo-bluster spewed by Mahmoud “_The Conqueror_” Abbas has been thrown out the islamo-window as Abbas is scrambling to do some islamo-posturing after the IsraelI announcement that they are considering some neighborhood improvements in areas of the East Bank occupied by the Islamist entity.










						Palestine to reconsider deals with Israel and US, announces President Abbas
					

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday announced that the country will reconsider the deals and understandings reached with both Israel and the US amid the former's annexation plans.




					www.indiatvnews.com
				




Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday announced that the country will reconsider the deals and understandings reached with both Israel and the US amid the former's annexation plans. Abbas said: "We extended our hands to a just and comprehensive peace based on the resolutions of the international legitimacy. We still have a hope to achieve this but this won't last for too long".


We’ll hold on a minute, Abu. The above is not what you claimed in February. 








						Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas suspends relations with the US, Israel
					

The Palestinian Authority has cut all ties with the United States and Israel, including those relating to security, after rejecting a Middle East peace plan presented by U.S. President Donald Trump,…




					www.france24.com


----------



## Hollie

Breeding the next generation of Pal-Arab Death Cultists.



*Fatah and PLO summer camp teaches children to honor arch-terrorists who murdered hundreds*
Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, Facebook  | Jul 4, 2019



*Text on screen:* “The [Fatah] Shabiba High School Committee - Bethlehem Branch"
This is how Fatah teaches its children loyalty to the Martyrs’ blood”
*Children: *“Saddam Hussein – O God, have mercy on Saddam Hussein
Yasser Arafat – O God, have mercy on Yasser Arafat…
Ahmed Yassin – O God, have mercy on Ahmed Yassin (i.e., founder of Hamas)
Abu Jihad – O God, have mercy on Abu Jihad (i.e., responsible for murder of 125)…
Abu Iyad – O God, have mercy on Abu Iyad (i.e., planner of Munich Olympics massacre)."


----------



## Hollie

From about one year ago but it shows what determination, a will to succeed and Lockheed Martin can accomplish in the face of Pal'istanian Islamic terrorism.k


*IDF releases photos of Hamas posts flattened in response to rocket fire.

Targets in Gaza include headquarters where terror group directed operations in West Bank as well as a compound used by its special naval force*

By JACOB MAGID and TOI STAFF17 March 2019, 6:00 am  2


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Shocking!


----------



## Hollie

It seems Mahmoud is having a difficult time getting a meeting with the competing mini-caliphate to strategize about the proposed IsraelI plan to annex a portion of the Jordan Valley.











						Palestinian leaders delay ‘crucial’ meeting on annexation
					

‘Abbas under pressure to avoid nixing agreements with Israel’




					m.jpost.com
				




A crucial” meeting of the Palestinian leadership that was scheduled to take place in Ramallah on Saturday night, to discuss a series of measures in response to Israel’s plan to apply sovereignty to parts of the West Bank, has been postponed until further notice, Palestinian officials said.

The indefinite postponement of the meeting sparked a wave of speculation among Palestinians as to the reason behind the decision


----------



## Hollie

Threats to kidnap Israeli citizens or soldiers is definitely a bad idea. Actually doing so would be a worse idea. But then again, Ismail is an Islamic terrorist for a reason. 











						Hamas leader threatens more kidnappings
					

Ismail Haniyeh: There is no breakthrough in negotiations because Israel is not serious.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




*Hamas leader threatens more kidnappings*
Ismail Haniyeh: There is no breakthrough in negotiations because Israel is not serious.








Ismail Haniyeh
Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash 90
Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, in an interview with the _Al-Jazeera_ network published on Wednesday, commented on the negotiations on a terrorist release deal that will include the return of Israelis held in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

While never all that popular, Iranian welfare money is being used to prop up another Islamic terrorist franchise. 

They will lose popularity if the IDF finds a need to de-popularize their Islamic terrorist attacks.



*Is the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine back from the dead?*









						Is the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine back from the dead?
					

Behind the Lines: Iranian support appears to lie behind uptick in the terrorist group’s activities in the region.




					www.jpost.com
				




Behind the Lines: Iranian support appears to lie behind uptick in the terrorist group’s activities in the region.


----------



## Hollie

Pal Islamic terrorism has only recently been subdued by the Wuhan virus. Otherwise,  Pal islamic terrorism gee-hads on.











						Palestinian Terrorism, 2019: Overview and Trends - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

Two main trends in attacks characterized Palestinian organized and popular terrorism in 2019: in Judea and Samaria, the annual decline in the scope of popular  terrorism and its lethality continued;  in the Gaza Strip there was a significant rise in the scope and intensity of terrorism and...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




Two main trends in attacks characterized Palestinian organized and popular terrorism in 2019:* in Judea and Samaria, the annual decline in the scope of popular terrorism and its lethality continued; in the Gaza Strip there was a significant rise in the scope and intensity of terrorism and violence, especially rocket fire*. In 2019 1,403 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel, an almost unprecedented number (with the exception of Operation Protective Edge, 2014).


----------



## Hollie

"I am Amira. I am 12 years old and live in Gaza. I used to live with my uncle's family in the house behind me for my whole life. Today, on my 12th birthday I was promised in marriage to my uncle."


----------



## Hollie

The Pal-Arab clown show before the UN is getting more desperate and frankly, a bit of a laughable circus.

Bassem Barhoum with the PA daily launched into a saliva slinging tirade calling the US Ambassador a war criminal”, “insolent” and the descendent of “racist fascism”.

_*racist fascism™️*_











						PA daily: US Ambassador to Israel is a war criminal who the Palestinians will bring before the ICC | PMW Analysis
					

Calling Ambassador Friedman a “war criminal”, “insolent” and the descendent of “racist fascism”, Barhoum continued saying that the first thing the Palestinians must do is to bring him to trial.




					palwatch.org
				




*PA daily: US Ambassador to Israel is a war criminal who the Palestinians will bring before the ICC*

Calling Ambassador Friedman a “war criminal”, “insolent” and the descendent of “*racist fascism*”, Barhoum continued saying that the first thing the Palestinians must do is to bring him to trial. 



> “The Palestinian people has experienced a long list of extremist, racist, and hate-filled Zionists, Jews and non-Jews alike, because the Zionist project is a project of global colonialism. But Ambassador David Friedman is the most insolent, most extreme, and most racist. He is a war criminal, and we will work to bring him before the International Criminal Court (ICC)…
> He is the descendent of racist fascism and hatred of the ugliest kind. Therefore, the first step is to bring this fascist before the ICC as a war criminal”


[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 7, 2020]


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Fitting. 

An invented “virtual embassy” for a nationality invented by Yasser Arafat. 











						Iran approves creation of 'virtual embassy' in Palestine
					

On May 12, Iranian lawmakers approved "a double-urgency motion" which, in case of turning into law, would oblige the Iranian government to take certain measures against "hostile measures" of Israel.




					www.timesnownews.com
				




*Tehran: *A Commission of the Iranian Parliament on Monday tasked the government to create a "virtual embassy" in Palestine. Parliament's National Security and Foreign Policy Commission approved a previously drafted motion bill, which obliges the Iranian Foreign Ministry to lay the groundwork for the creation of "the Islamic Republic's Virtual Embassy in Palestine" within six months and submit the results for approval to the cabinet, reports Xinhua news agency.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,


Hollie said:


> Fitting.
> *Tehran: *A Commission of the Iranian Parliament on Monday tasked the government to create a "virtual embassy" in Palestine. Parliament's National Security and Foreign Policy Commission approved a previously drafted motion bill, which obliges the Iranian Foreign Ministry to lay the groundwork for the creation of "the Islamic Republic's Virtual Embassy in Palestine" within six months and submit the results for approval to the cabinet, reports Xinhua news agency.


*(COMMENT)*

Yeah, I have to agree.  It is rather cute.  The question becomes:  Who and how do you enforce the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons, including Diplomatic Agents?  





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Fitting.
> 
> An invented “virtual embassy” for a nationality invented by Yasser Arafat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran approves creation of 'virtual embassy' in Palestine
> 
> 
> On May 12, Iranian lawmakers approved "a double-urgency motion" which, in case of turning into law, would oblige the Iranian government to take certain measures against "hostile measures" of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesnownews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Tehran: *A Commission of the Iranian Parliament on Monday tasked the government to create a "virtual embassy" in Palestine. Parliament's National Security and Foreign Policy Commission approved a previously drafted motion bill, which obliges the Iranian Foreign Ministry to lay the groundwork for the creation of "the Islamic Republic's Virtual Embassy in Palestine" within six months and submit the results for approval to the cabinet, reports Xinhua news agency.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Members of Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement are said to have attacked other banks with bullets and Molotov cocktails in recent days.

Relatives of murderers are also being interviewed in Arab media complaining about how they are losing their income. The father of Ibrahim Bakri, who participated in an attack that killed 9 in Safed in 2002 along with his cousin, say that the Bank of Jordan closed his family's account which was getting funded by the  Palestinian Authority. 

The Palestinian Authority, funded by Europe, is paying terrorists. It's main political party is shooting at and bombing banks that aren't paying terrorists. Its media is sympathetic towards terrorists who suddenly are losing their blood salaries.

(full article online)









						Palestinians attacking banks that aren't paying terrorists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arabs are rioting. 

Shocking, that.


----------



## Hollie

A good read. One that makes some obvious points about Islamic terrorist dictators and their not so surprising willingness to rule as authoritarian dictators, especially when the welfare checks keep rolling in.













						Abbas' Bluff
					

What happened to all of last year’s talk surrounding a possible election date in Palestine? One its most fervent cheerleaders was the EU, but their ongoing securitised agenda in Palestine means that elections do not equate to democracy.




					magazine.zenith.me
				




What happened to all of last year’s talk surrounding a possible election date in Palestine? One its most fervent cheerleaders was the EU, but their ongoing securitised agenda in Palestine means that elections do not equate to democracy.

In late September last year, Mahmoud Abbas stood before the UN General Assembly and announced that upon his return to Ramallah he would "announce a date for the holding of general elections in Palestine." His declaration in New York sparked a flurry of punditry speculating on who would succeed the 84-year-old president of the Palestinian Authority, a body that nominally only enjoys autonomy over 17.7% of the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) known as Area A, with the rest either being under joint or direct Israeli control.


----------



## Hollie

One day you have a warm house with your children playing around, and next day Islamic terrorists commit acts of war against Israeli cities. Israeli warplanes respond to suppress the Islamic terrorist attacks and you have no place to live in anymore. This is what families have to face. Islamic terrorism carried consequences.


----------



## Hollie

Arrested and charged with stealing a Jordanian flag.


----------



## Hollie

Israel exonerated.


----------



## Hollie

UN seeks to know why Islamic terrorists put children in a war zone they create.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The world and big media don't take much notice as to the cultural norms that divide Israeli society from the Pal-Arab one. It's worth pointing out the inscrutable madness of Islamic terrorist mass murderers hailed as heroes, but ultimately it's a crying shame how the Pal-Arabs have a seemingly inexhaustible supply of hatred and human resources dedicated to it.  What is perhaps worse is how the free world has abetted this Islamic culture of death for so long. 









						Israeli convicted of West Bank arson attack that killed three Palestinians
					

A Palestinian infant and his parents were killed when their home in Duma was firebombed in 2015.



					www.bbc.com
				





vs.










						WATCH: 'Jihadi' Who Killed 13 Israelis Celebrated as Palestinian Hero | United with Israel
					

While murdering innocent people could not be more reprehensible, a notorious Palestinian suicide bomber was recently lauded on Lebanese television.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Oh my. The Pal'istanian Undersecretary has summoned an Austrian diplomat in connection with a statement wherein Austria doubted the jurisdiction of ICC over the Palestinian territories.  









						Palestine summons Austrian envoy
					

Austria disputes International Criminal Court's jurisdiction over Palestinian territories  - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




Representative Office of Austria to Palestine Astrid Wein, was summoned by Undersecretary of Palestine's Foreign Ministry, Amal Jadou, over observations submitted in which Austria doubted the jurisdiction of ICC over the Palestinian territories. 



In accord with a edict from the Iranian government which is the de-facto ruling authority of those territories occupied by the Arab-Moslem terrorists, the Austrian diplomat was virtually summoned by a virtual email from the virtual Pal embassy which is literally a laughing stock.



			Iran Planning to Establish Virtual Embassy in Palestine


----------



## Hollie

It seems to me that raising a child within an environment that glorifies self destruction in the commission of murderous acts virtually guarantees a maladjusted personality. 











						Palestinian children's TV show features poem promoting child martyrdom
					

A Palestinian government children’s TV program aired a poem advocating youth martyrdom and the use of assault rifles, according to a clip of the show posted by an Israeli watchdog group.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




A Palestinian government children’s TV program aired a poem advocating youth martyrdom and the use of assault rifles, according to a clip of the show posted by an Israeli watchdog group.

_The Best Home_, a children’s show broadcast by the Palestinian Authority government, included a segment where a young girl read a poem about taking up arms and dying as a martyr on Nov. 21.

“I am the Palestinian lion cub ... The blood of the martyrs flows in my veins,” said the girl, according to a translation posted by Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli watchdog group. “If the drums of war call, I harvest the souls in the fields. My sword is drawn and won’t return to the sheath.”

“The armies of treachery fear me, and the Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me,” the poem continued. “I have not sold my homelands, and have not given up my assault rifle.”


----------



## Hollie

Gaza International Airport. Where Islamic terrorists are airport security. 

Have a nice flight.


----------



## Hollie

Studying Israeli border security. A future martyr bred to be a disposable commodity sacrificed for deposits to Hamas bank accounts


----------



## Hollie

It must be a daily humiliation for Pal-Arabs to see themselves as largely third-world as compared to Israeli successes. With the Pal-Arabs focused on an obsession with Jew hating, they have squander all forms of opportunity to build a working society. 

Now they're left to hate themselves amidst their miserable existence.



*PA: All of Israel is “Palestine” and “ours” – in song on official PA TV LIVE*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | May 19, 2020



Hardly a day goes by without PA leaders emphasizing to the Palestinian people that Israel has no right to exist, and that all of Israel is “Palestine.” 

This song, recently broadcast to Palestinians on one of the PA’s official TV channels, presents a world without Israel in which the cities and places in Israel are said to be in “Palestine.” For emphasis, the words _*“they are ours,”*_ are applied to the Israeli cities _*Tel Aviv, Be’er Sheva, Beit Shean, Tiberias, and Ramle,*_ to guarantee no one misses the point that “Palestine” encompasses the entire State of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud just can't make up his mind. On again, off again. 

Whatever.











						Palestine withdraws from all agreements with Israel and US, says Mahmoud Abbas
					

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas announced his country will be ceasing all arrangements with Israel and the US in light of Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s annexation plans.




					www.rt.com
				




Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas announced his country will be ceasing all arrangements with Israel and the US in light of Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s annexation plans.

_"The Palestine Liberation Organization and the State of Palestine are absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments and of all the obligations based on these understandings and agreements, including the security ones,"_ the president said at a leadership meeting in Ramallah.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Sacrifices must be made for the glory of the Reich Ummah.












						Hamas Killed 160 Palestinian Children to Build Gaza Tunnels
					

As the death toll of Operation Protective Edge rises, the deaths of children are firmly in the spotlight—and rightly so. It pains all reasonable people to hear of children dying as the consequence of war. Hamas and its supporters display gruesome pictures of dead and wounded children in order to...




					www.tabletmag.com


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism. It's all fun and games until the retaliation starts.


----------



## Hollie

The Delusion of Palestine and the Reality of Israel - Israel Today
					

After conquering and colonizing this land, who are we Arabs to deny the return of the Jewish people?




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




I like to deal in truth and reality. Here are some truths and realities: Israel has never been called “Palestine,” at least not as a national political entity; Up until 1,420 years ago, there was no significant Arab population in this land; and the more ancient history of this land is demonstrably Jewish, Aramaic and Syriac.

One need only consider the many “Palestinian” towns and villages that still carry Aramaic, Hebrew and Syrian names.

Another truth is that Islam occupied the Levant by force, and wherever it could changed place names and imposed its own religion and culture in an effort to erase this region’s true Judeo-Christian heritage. It is Islam, not Israel and the Jews, that is truly foreign to this land.
They call Israel and the Jews occupiers and colonizers. But that is precisely what the Muslim Arabs are. It is they who conquered, occupied and colonized this land, and over the course of 1,400 years gradually transformed it into Arab Islamic lands.


----------



## Hollie

*Alert: UNRWA is Shocked!

Islamic terrorists stage an ammunition supply depot near an UNRWA school.*










						UNRWA Shocked at Shrapnel Incident Causing Damage to School Building in Homs, Syria - Statement - Question of Palestine
					

Arabic: العربية Statement by Amanya Michael-Ebye, Director of UNRWA Affairs, Syrian Arab Republic On the morning of Friday, 1 May 2020, the Al-Shajara School of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) in the Homs Palestine refugee camp was hit by shrapnel...



					www.un.org
				




On the morning of Friday, 1 May 2020, the Al-Shajara School of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) in the Homs Palestine refugee camp was hit by shrapnel emanating from an explosion in an ammunition depot outside the camp, causing damage to at least one of its classrooms.


----------



## Hollie

The Cult of Pal-Arabs are relentless in poisoning the minds of those unfortunate enough to be a part of the Cult mentality



*Official PA media emphasizes its commitment to terrorists and murderers*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 19, 2019


*“The cause” of terrorist murderers is “official PA media’s center of focus*
*Head of PA media met with 5 released murderers: “Our Martyrs and heroic prisoners' sacrifices are medals of honor for our people and our Arab nation”*
The Palestinian Authority stresses its support for terrorist murderers of Israelis in numerous ways. 

One of the significant ways the PA expresses this support to the Palestinian population, as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, is - under instructions from PA Chairman Abbas - to highlight the terrorist prisoners and “Martyrs” as heroes in the official media


----------



## Hollie

Muhammad was indoctrinated with hate / self-hate from the earliest age. Fed a steady diet of the glory associated with sacrificing for Hamas, no one told him he was a disposable commodity.


----------



## Hollie

Celebrating a killing, one they committed on the eve of an Islamist “holy gorge-fest”


*Palestinian terrorist factions applaud West Bank terror attack*









						Palestinian terrorist factions applaud West Bank terror attack
					

A PA official in Ramallah pointed out that the murder of Sorek came on the eve of the Muslim feast of Eid al-Adha. He said he did not rule out the possibility that a Hamas cell was behind the attack.




					m.jpost.com
				







PALESTINIAN HAMAS SUPPORTERS in Gaza celebrate the Ariel terrorist attack, earlier this week
(photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS)
A PA official in Ramallah pointed out that the murder of Sorek came on the eve of the Muslim feast of Eid al-Adha. He said he did not rule out the possibility that a Hamas cell was behind the attack.


----------



## Hollie

The Seven Signs That You're in a Cult
					

A former member of a tight-knit college prayer group describes his community’s disintegration—and how one of its members ended up dead.




					www.theatlantic.com
				














						Teaching Terror: How Hamas Radicalizes Palestinian Society
					

On February




					www.washingtoninstitute.org
				




If Hamas has one supreme objective, it is to mutate the essentially ethno-political Palestinian national struggle into a fundamentally religious conflict. Accomplishing this goal entails transforming Palestinian society -- a relatively secular culture, compared to other Muslim societies in the Arab world -- into one that is religiously zealous and politically extreme. Such a project of radicalization is the goal of all violent Islamist groups, from al-Qaeda to Egyptian Islamic Jihad. But Hamas, operating a grassroots campaign in a limited geographical area, is able to execute a strategically planned radicalization campaign that translates existing social preconditions - Israeli occupation, military checkpoints, lack of Palestinian leadership, lawlessness - into an active, violent, and radical response.


----------



## Hollie

Soon to be another piece of disposable fleshbot for the glory of Khaled Mashal’s foreign bank accounts.


----------



## Hollie

In a manner that one would not be amiss in describing as a mental disorder, it's truly a sickness that describes the glorification of wanton murder and celebrating those who commit that act.


----------



## Hollie

In Islamist ideology, they're "brides".


----------



## Hollie

About the right age to be fitted with weapons and sent to the "peaceful riots" at the Israeli border.


----------



## Hollie

I think you're going to be creeped out by the Pal-Arab death cultists. 

They're celebrating the mental disorder that they breed. 



*Fatah youth movement accompanies “to his wedding” the “heroic Martyr,” killer of 2, “who carried out the operation of heroism”*

Official Fatah Facebook page  | Mar 20, 2019




Text and image posted on the official Fatah Facebook page

The image shows terrorist Omar Abu Laila who murdered two Israelis. In the upper left corner is the general Shabiba Fatah Youth Movement logo that shows the PA map of Palestine that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas next to a book, with a circle around it with text within it:
*Text on either side of the circle: *“The State of Palestine”
*Text at bottom of circle:* “Fatah – the perpetual revolution”


----------



## Sixties Fan

> ARTICLE III
> TRANSFER OF AUTHORITY
> 
> Israel shall transfer authority as specified in this Agreement from the Israeli military government and its Civil Administration to the Palestinian Authority, hereby established, in accordance with Article V of this Agreement, except for the authority that Israel shall continue to exercise as specified in this Agreement.


If all agreements between Israel and the PLO are null and void, Shtayyeh is out of a job.

But he is on the phone with world leaders - including the leader of Norway, which hosted the Oslo Accords that Abbas just claimed he has ended.

Now, the PLO would claim that Shtayyeh is prime minister of the "State of Palestine," which they claim the Palestinian Authority became in 2013. 

But as usual, the Palestinians will make contradictory claims, based on the circumstances and who they are talking to. 

In 2016, way after the supposed change of the PA/PNA to the "State of Palestine," Mahmoud Abbas said, “The Palestinian Authority exists and it is here. It will be followed by a Palestinian state. The Palestinian Authority is one of our achievements and we won’t give it up."

So even he admits there is no "State of Palestine" and that the PA is the current government.

(full article online)



> If all agreements with Israel are void, then the Palestinian Authority should disappear
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Kan News reports that the PA refused the medical aid,  saying the Abu Dhabi authorities have not coordinated the shipment with them at all, and the manner in which aid is sent is not acceptable to the PA.

"If the UAE wants to normalize with Israel, then it shouldn't be on our backs," a Palestinian source told Kan. 

In fact, the aid was coordinated with the UN. The aid was sent through the UN's World Food Program and was facilitated by the UN's Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process (UNSCO.)  it included included 16 tons of medical supplies, including 10 ventilators and protective equipment. 

For months now, anti-Israel activists have been falsely accusing Israel of withholding COVID-19 aid to Palestinians as a political tool. As is always the case, this is projection on their part: the only side refusing aid for political purposes are the Palestinians. And the Palestinian Authority has been limiting medical aid to Gaza as well.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority refuses COVID-19 aid FROM ARABS - because it came through Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## MartyNYC

When were there any “palestinians“?


----------



## Hollie

It seems Mahmoud somehow believes his silly tap dancing will find an audience. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-abbas-comedy-and-ongoing-palestinian-tragedy/
		


If you think you've seen this movie before, you're right.

Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas has declared that he is abrogating all agreements with Israel so many times it's a wonder that he could do so again with a straight face. Indeed, he started making these threats as soon as he succeeded PLO chairman Yasser Arafat and has never really stopped during the course of the 15 years of his four-year term as leader of the PA


----------



## Hollie

MartyNYC said:


> When were there any “palestinians“?


If you wait a bit, our friend P F Tinmore will be along to explain how the Treaty of Lausanne invented the “country of Pal’Istan” in 1924.


----------



## Hollie

Well, this is reassuring. 

The Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise is identifying that while they will allow the Islamic terrorist gee-had to roll on, it just won’t be the “run amok” kind of gee-had. 











						Palestinian official said to reassure Israel some security cooperation still on
					

Even if coordinated activities are stopped the Palestinians will not allow terror to run amok in their territory, will prevent attacks, senior figure tells Israeli defense entities




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Even if coordinated activities are stopped the Palestinians will not allow terror to run amok in their territory, will prevent attacks, senior figure tells Israeli defense entities


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA says security coordination with Israel, CIA no longer valid, warns Israelis against accidentally entering PA-held territory.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority ends security coordination with Israel
					

PA says security coordination with Israel, CIA no longer valid, warns Israelis against accidentally entering PA-held territory.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

I suppose these silly mob riots find a drooling, slack-jawed audience among Pal-Arabs but they tend to portray the Pals as clones of this guy:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Seven Signs That You're in a Cult
> 
> 
> A former member of a tight-knit college prayer group describes his community’s disintegration—and how one of its members ended up dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching Terror: How Hamas Radicalizes Palestinian Society
> 
> 
> On February
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtoninstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Hamas has one supreme objective, it is to mutate the essentially ethno-political Palestinian national struggle into a fundamentally religious conflict. Accomplishing this goal entails transforming Palestinian society -- a relatively secular culture, compared to other Muslim societies in the Arab world -- into one that is religiously zealous and politically extreme. Such a project of radicalization is the goal of all violent Islamist groups, from al-Qaeda to Egyptian Islamic Jihad. But Hamas, operating a grassroots campaign in a limited geographical area, is able to execute a strategically planned radicalization campaign that translates existing social preconditions - Israeli occupation, military checkpoints, lack of Palestinian leadership, lawlessness - into an active, violent, and radical response.





Hollie said:


> Accomplishing this goal entails transforming Palestinian society -- a relatively secular culture, compared to other Muslim societies in the Arab world -- into one that is religiously zealous and politically extreme.


Good luck with that.


----------



## MartyNYC

Palestine originally was a Greek word, not Arabic, referring to Philistines, who were related to Greeks, not Arabs. Philistines have been extinct for thousands of years. Arabs are not palestinians.


----------



## MartyNYC

2,000 years ago, Roman historian Tacitus wrote of the Jews in their ancient homeland, with Jerusalem their Capital. How come there is no historical record of “palestinians“? Because, no such people existed.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Could it be the welfare dependent Pal-Arabs are simply lying about their welfare fraud?



*Is the PA deceiving Israel in order to receive a $227 million loan?









						Is the PA deceiving Israel in order to receive a $227 million loan? | PMW Analysis
					

While the PA is begging for financial aid, PMW found that in the first quarter of 2020 the PA’s revenues increased by approximately $355 million compared to the same period in 2019, constituting an increase of 47%.




					palwatch.org
				



*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | May 21, 2020

While the PA is begging for financial aid, PMW found that in the first quarter of 2020 the PA’s revenues increased by approximately $355 million compared to the same period in 2019, constituting an increase of 47%.
Would Israel have agreed to loan the Palestinian Authority $227 million (800 million shekels) if the PA had revealed to Israel that in the first quarter of the year its revenues increased by more than $355 million (1.2 billion shekels) compared to the same period in the previous year, and increased by approximately $45 million (160 million shekels) compared to the same period in 2018?
Probably not.
But that is the reality, according to the PA’s official financial reports published by the PA Ministry of Finance.
From the outset of the Coronavirus crisis, senior PA officials warned of a PA financial crisis due to a supposed drop in its revenues and fears about the financial effects of a large number of Palestinians being infected with the virus. It is likely that these claims spurred the Israeli government to approve giving the PA the $227 million loan. But Palestinian Media Watch has now discovered that the claims about a drop in the PA’s revenues were false as were the gloomy estimates regarding mass infection.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ "All we want is WAR....dah, taradaddah ]

Top Hamas official Saleh al-Arouri, who leads the terror group’s West Bank activities, said Thursday night that the organization “welcomes [Abbas’s] decision to stop security coordination,” and added that he hoped “this time it will be serious.”

He claimed that “the return of the resistance to the West Bank is very possible and closer than what people imagine.

(full article online)









						PA removes police stationed near Jerusalem, as Gaza said to freeze ties too
					

Report indicates goods and aid to Strip may be blocked from entering; Hamas leader jubilant over new crisis between Israel, Ramallah




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ex-"Palestinian" terrorist asks a question to Jews and Muslims everywhere
					

Walid Shoebat is brave for addressing such an issue.




					israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the PA is begging for financial aid, PMW found that in the first quarter of 2020 the PA’s revenues increased by approximately $355 million compared to the same period in 2019, constituting an increase of 47%.
Would Israel have agreed to loan the Palestinian Authority $227 million (800 million shekels) if the PA had revealed to Israel that in the first quarter of the year its revenues increased by more than $355 million (1.2 billion shekels) compared to the same period in the previous year, and increased by approximately $45 million (160 million shekels) compared to the same period in 2018?

Probably not.

But that is the reality, according to the PA’s official financial reports published by the PA Ministry of Finance.

From the outset of the Coronavirus crisis, senior PA officials warned of a PA financial crisis due to a supposed drop in its revenues and fears about the financial effects of a large number of Palestinians being infected with the virus. It is likely that these claims spurred the Israeli government to approve giving the PA the $227 million loan. But Palestinian Media Watch has now discovered that the claims about a drop in the PA’s revenues were false as were the gloomy estimates regarding mass infection.

Just two weeks after the virus reached Israel, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh was already complaining about lost revenues:

(full article online)









						Is the PA deceiving Israel in order to receive a $227 million loan? | PMW Analysis
					

While the PA is begging for financial aid, PMW found that in the first quarter of 2020 the PA’s revenues increased by approximately $355 million compared to the same period in 2019, constituting an increase of 47%.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian NGOs with terrorists on the payroll eligible for EU funding
					

A letter issued by the European Union’s top diplomat to Palestinian territories allegedly allowing terrorists to benefit from E.U. funding has gotten pro-Israel groups concerned, especially as the E.U. equivocates on the matter.




					www.jns.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Economic cooperation does not serve the agenda of the terrorists. Terrorists _want_ Palestinians to continue living in abject poverty so that they can go on blaming Israel for Palestinian misery. Unemployed Palestinians are much easier to target for recruitment as terrorists than Palestinians who are able to feed their families.


Many Saudis who are furious with the Palestinian threats and smear campaign against their country for its alleged rapprochement with Israel have responded through social media platforms by strongly condemning the Palestinians. Saudi pundits are now believed to be behind a trending hashtag on Twitter, entitled, "#The_Palestinian_cause_is_not_my_cause."


The Palestinian smear campaign is taking place amid silence from the international community and media. They seem indifferent to a rather crucial question: if a Palestinian or Muslim cannot share a meal with an Israeli or watch a TV drama about the life of Jews in Arab countries without being labelled a criminal, how would any Palestinian leader dare to sign a peace agreement with Israel?

(full article online)









						Palestinians: Eating with a Jew is a Crime
					

Economic cooperation does not serve the agenda of the terrorists. Terrorists want Palestinians to continue living in abject poverty so that they can go on blaming Israel for Palestinian misery. Unemployed Palestinians are much easier to target for




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

She doesn’t say that blowing up Jews is immoral or wrong. On the contrary, all means of “resistance” are valid, but for tactical reasons the PLO doesn’t want the world to know that it embraces terror so it has, for now, abandoned that method. Meaning, if tomorrow the political calculation changes, the PLO can easily move back into suicide bombing. 

It is of course absurd to say that an organization that turns terrorists into heroes and that literally pays salaries to those whose only accomplishments in life were to kill Jews has embraced nonviolence. It is purely a result of the West’s disapproval that they have chosen to let Hamas and Islamic Jihad take the terror role at this time.

(full article online)









						Hanan Ashrawi says why the PLO pretends to be against terror; claims AIPAC told Dem candidates to drop out; "settlements stole ancient Palestinian village names"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

"Protect and serve" takes on a different meaning in the alternate reality of Islamic terrorist enclaves.











						TV: Suspect in attempted West Bank shooting was Palestinian police officer
					

Man tried to open fire on Israeli motorists near Nablus, but gun apparently jammed; Wednesday attack comes amid tension over Palestinian decision to end security cooperation




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




TV: Suspect in attempted West Bank shooting was Palestinian police officer.

Man tried to open fire on Israeli motorists near Nablus, but gun apparently jammed; Wednesday attack comes amid tension over Palestinian decision to end security cooperation


----------



## Hollie

Let them eat cake falafel. 










						Palestinian Authority rejects UAE aid sent via Israeli airport
					

Palestinians say sending medical aid through Tel Aviv is a ‘cover for normalisation’ of ties with Israel.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Hollie

Another Hamas mouthpiece was railing against both the "The criminal Zionist enemies of Allah...'' and the Saudi's in a saliva-slinging tirade.





*Marwan Abu Ras: *"The criminal Zionist enemies of Allah occupy the Al-Aqsa Mosque. They defile it day and night, kill Muslims, and violate the sanctity of Muslim women and holy places. Hating them is an obligation according to the _shari'a_. 


"These [Saudi] TV channels did not stop at airing shows of corruption and depravity but have become dubious and filthy mouthpieces of Zionist propaganda, financed by Arab and Muslim money, may Allah help us!


----------



## Hollie

Ahed "the conqueror" prefers to be with her Israeli friends.


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## Hollie

The sickness of Pals using children as a disposable commodity.


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## Hollie

It already has been documented that most of the killed were Hamas operatives


----------



## Hollie

Never again to darken the planet.


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## Hollie




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## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


>



Everybody loves a happy ending.


----------



## Hollie

The mini-caliphate known as Abbas'istan is shrinking. 











						Palestine security pulls out of area B in Jerusalem
					

Palestinian security forces have withdrawn from towns and villages in Jerusalem classified as Area B in the Oslo accords, Anadolu Agency reports.    According to witnesses, Palestinian forces left the...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




“Palestinian security forces have withdrawn from towns and villages in Jerusalem classified as Area B in the Oslo accords, Anadolu Agency reports.According to witnesses, Palestinian forces left the northwestern towns of Iksa, Qatanna and Biddu, as well as the northern Abu Dis and Izarriya towns.Though the Oslo II Accord inked in 1995 between the Palestine Liberation Organization and Israel, designates area B as subject to Israeli security control, Tel Aviv allowed Palestinian security forces to be deployed there because of the coronavirus pandemic.”


----------



## Hollie

It's an odd dynamic that the Pal-Arabs allow themselves to be exploited by Shia Iran. While the Pals are willing to bend and scrape before the Iranian Mullocrats for a welfare check and arms & ammunition, the Pals must know that the Mullocrats fully expect dead Sunni Pal-Arabs are going to be a result of Iranian weapons.













						Iran condemned by West after sending arms to Palestine to fight 'tumour' Israel
					

IRAN'S Supreme Leader sparked outrage in the United States and European Union today by denouncing Israel as a "Zionist tumour" to be eliminated, after sending arms to Palestinians.




					www.express.co.uk
				




Opposition to Israel is a core belief for Shi'ite-led Iran, which backs Palestinian and Lebanese Islamic militant groups opposed to peace with the Jewish state, which Tehran refuses to recognise. In an online speech quickly condemned by the West as "disgusting", Iran's top authority Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said: "The Zionist regime (Israel) is a deadly, cancerous tumor in the region. It will undoubtedly be uprooted and destroyed."


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## Hollie

More funding for Islamic terrorists.











						United Nations in soup over allegations of funding terror outfits in Palestine
					

NGO Monitor noted that the United Nations (UN) had resorted to 'anti-Israel advocacy' instead of contributing to the humanitarian crisis. |




					www.opindia.com
				




International aid worth millions of dollars provided to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) for coronavirus emergency response in Palestine has been transferred to Islamic terrorist organisations, reported _The Jerusalem Post._


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## Hollie

The formerly breathing Iranian Death Cultist who was retired by the Great Satan was an agent for arms and ammunition to the Pal Islamic terrorists. 












						Palestinian Militant Leader Says Soleimani Sent Weapons To Gaza
					

The Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad movement Ziyad al-Nakhalah says Qassem Soleimani "personally" managed a complex operation to send weapons to Gaza.




					en.radiofarda.com
				




The Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad movement Ziyad al-Nakhalah says Qassem Soleimani "personally" managed a complex operation to send weapons to Gaza.

In a video posted on Qassem Soleimani's Twitter account on Thursday evening, May 21, al-Nakhalah disclosed that Soleimani traveled to several countries to supply weapons for the Palestinians in Gaza.


----------



## MartyNYC

“Palestinian” official lets it slip out that half of “palestinians” are Egyptian, the other half are Saudis!

Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip, and Says: 'Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis'


----------



## Hollie

The UAE is just not feeling the love. 

The Pals are railing against the UAE because the Pals are convinced the UAE is "spearheading efforts to normalize relations between Arab states and Israel.''   

"No good deed goes unpunished".









						UAE activists rail against Palestinians for rejecting medical supplies
					

"If the plane was carrying dollars, Abbas would have received it."




					www.jpost.com
				




United Arab Emirates (UAE) political activists, academics and social media users have expressed outrage over the Palestinian Authority’s reported refusal to accept medical supplies from the Gulf state because they were delivered through Ben-Gurion Airport.

PA Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh said last week that the UAE did not coordinate the delivery of the medical supplies with the Palestinians.


“We have heard in the news that there is a United Arab Emirates plane carrying medical supplies to the Palestinians,” Shtayyeh said. “This issue has never been coordinated with us and we have never been notified about it.”

Palestinians have accused the UAE of spearheading efforts to normalize relations between Arab states and Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Ministry of Communication released some statistics that show that Palestinians are among the better connected people of the world.

Some 4.2 million have mobile phones–that’s equivalent to 85% of the total population. The survey, though, said that some 75% of all above the age of 10 have their own mobile phone, while some 87% of all above 10 use a mobile phone, presumably the family phone.

About 80% of Palestinian families have internet access at home.86% of those aged 10 and above use social networks, the number reaching 90% in the West Bank.

These are not exactly third-world numbers, here.



(full article online)









						80% of Palestinians have home internet, nearly everyone has a smartphone
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

“This was the last straw,” said Waheed Tahan of Jerusalem. Mohammad Massad, leader of the Palestinian Workers’ Organization, was adamant when he said “nobody believes” the PA leaders.

(full article online)









						'The Last Straw': Palestinians Take to the Streets, Protesting PA Leadership | United with Israel
					

Mohammad Massad, leader of the Palestinian Workers’ Organization, was adamant when he said 'nobody believes' the PA leaders.




					unitedwithisrael.org


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## Sixties Fan

LIFE IN GAZA: The video Israel's haters tried to hide | United with Israel
					

We constantly hear media reports about the 'poor Palestinians' in Gaza, but there's more to it than meets the eye.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Mindful

*Some More Palestinian Information Center Epic Dumbassery*
By
David Lange
 - 
May 25, 2020


Anti-Israel propaganda Facebook page The Palestinian Information Center is fed up with Facebook for what it calls its “policy of deleting Palestine content and supporting Israel”; so they are trying to get Facebook a lower rating on Google Play and the App Store, presumably so less people will use Facebook.

And what better way to accomplish this than by…posting about it _on Facebook_ and encouraging their followers to post screenshots _on their Facebook page_.

Some More Palestinian Information Center Epic Dumbassery


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## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> LIFE IN GAZA: The video Israel's haters tried to hide | United with Israel
> 
> 
> We constantly hear media reports about the 'poor Palestinians' in Gaza, but there's more to it than meets the eye.
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> unitedwithisrael.org


WOW, parts of Gaza that Israel hasn't bombed yet.


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## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


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> WOW, parts of Gaza that Israel hasn't bombed yet.
Click to expand...


“Gaza“ originated as a Hebrew word, Aza, reflecting the ancient Jewish presence there. Aza appears in the Jewish Bible. It’s not an Arabic word.


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## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


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> “Gaza“ originated as a Hebrew word, Aza, reflecting the ancient Jewish presence there. Aza appears in the Jewish Bible. It’s not an Arabic word.
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.


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## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


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> “Gaza“ originated as a Hebrew word, Aza, reflecting the ancient Jewish presence there. Aza appears in the Jewish Bible. It’s not an Arabic word.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.
Click to expand...


History is “irrelevant” when inconvenient.


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## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


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> WOW, parts of Gaza that Israel hasn't bombed yet.
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> “Gaza“ originated as a Hebrew word, Aza, reflecting the ancient Jewish presence there. Aza appears in the Jewish Bible. It’s not an Arabic word.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.
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> History is “irrelevant” when inconvenient.
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Israeli talking points that we have all heard a gazillion times.


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## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


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> LIFE IN GAZA: The video Israel's haters tried to hide | United with Israel
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> Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.
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> History is “irrelevant” when inconvenient.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli talking points that we have all heard a gazillion times.
Click to expand...


Who knew John Calvin, 16th century French theologian, was an Israeli propagandist? D’oh! 




He wrote of Gaza’s Hebrew origin...


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
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> WOW, parts of Gaza that Israel hasn't bombed yet.
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Keep your Islamic terrorists under control and their won't be a need for Islamic terrorist behavior correction.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


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> “Gaza“ originated as a Hebrew word, Aza, reflecting the ancient Jewish presence there. Aza appears in the Jewish Bible. It’s not an Arabic word.
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> Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.
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> History is “irrelevant” when inconvenient.
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> Israeli talking points that we have all heard a gazillion times.
Click to expand...

We've read your "Islamic talking points" slogans a gazillion times.


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## MartyNYC

Hollie said:


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> WOW, parts of Gaza that Israel hasn't bombed yet.
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> “Gaza“ originated as a Hebrew word, Aza, reflecting the ancient Jewish presence there. Aza appears in the Jewish Bible. It’s not an Arabic word.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.
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> History is “irrelevant” when inconvenient.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli talking points that we have all heard a gazillion times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We've read your "Islamic talking points" slogans a gazillion times.
Click to expand...


Tens of thousands of posts about Gaza and he was utterly clueless that the name is Hebrew in origin.


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## Hollie

From the MNN (Mullah News Network), comes this message of Quds awareness. Do your part. Be a victim of your own recklessness and stupidity.

Thanks.

Signed,

Your Shia friend in Tehran. 





			Quds Day confirms role of Muslims to help liberate Palestine
		



On the International Day of Quds, for which many have been martyred, including Martyr Qassem Soleimani, we say that Quds was and will be the eternal capital of the Palestinian people.

Quds Day was a culture that Imam Khomeini instilled. He named the last Friday of the blessed month of Ramadan as a global day for the Quds to perpetuate the culture of Quds and to emphasized the duty of the Arab and Islamic nations to strive for the liberation of Quds and Palestine; this confirms the role of the Islamic countries to work towards liberating Palestine.


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## MartyNYC

Hollie said:


> From the MNN (Mullah News Network), comes this message of Quds awareness. Do your part. Be a victim of your own recklessness and stupidity.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Your Shia friend in Tehran.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Quds Day confirms role of Muslims to help liberate Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the International Day of Quds, for which many have been martyred, including Martyr Qassem Soleimani, we say that Quds was and will be the eternal capital of the Palestinian people.
> 
> Quds Day was a culture that Imam Khomeini instilled. He named the last Friday of the blessed month of Ramadan as a global day for the Quds to perpetuate the culture of Quds and to emphasized the duty of the Arab and Islamic nations to strive for the liberation of Quds and Palestine; this confirms the role of the Islamic countries to work towards liberating Palestine.



Neither “Quds” nor “Jerusalem” appears in the Koran—Not  holy in Islam, really. In fact, the Koran decrees Jerusalem to Jews, by Divine Decree...


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## Hollie

The Ayatollah in Iran and wannabe Ayatollah of the mini-caliphate of Hamas'istan has decreed the (Shia) Islamic duty to re-conquer the geographic area of Pal'istan. The majority Sunni Islamists view this as an ideological struggle to prevent the Shia (viewed as heretics by the Sunni), from gaining another foothold in the region. 









						Iran’s Khamenei Says Liberating Palestine Is ‘Islamic Duty’
					

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said it was an




					www.courthousenews.com
				




TEHRAN, Iran (AFP) — Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said it was an “Islamic duty” to fight for the “liberation of Palestine” in a landmark speech Friday amid rising tensions with archenemy Israel.

Khamenei lashed out at Western nations and their Arab “puppets” for supporting the Jewish state, in his first-ever address marking Quds (Jerusalem) Day.

The 80-year-old leader appeared to confirm for the first time that Iran has helped provide Palestinians with arms.


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## MartyNYC

Hollie said:


> The Ayatollah in Iran and wannabe Ayatollah of the mini-caliphate of Hamas'istan has decreed the (Shia) Islamic duty to re-conquer the geographic area of Pal'istan. The majority Sunni Islamists view this as an ideological struggle to prevent the Shia (viewed as heretics by the Sunni), from gaining another foothold in the region.
> 
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> TEHRAN, Iran (AFP) — Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said it was an “Islamic duty” to fight for the “liberation of Palestine” in a landmark speech Friday amid rising tensions with archenemy Israel.
> 
> Khamenei lashed out at Western nations and their Arab “puppets” for supporting the Jewish state, in his first-ever address marking Quds (Jerusalem) Day.
> 
> The 80-year-old leader appeared to confirm for the first time that Iran has helped provide Palestinians with arms.



Muslims must liberate palestine? Palestine was a pagan Roman name imposed on Jews—Are Muslims pagan Romans?


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## Hollie

Being reminded of the scale at which the Pal Death Cult promotes mass murder / suicide brings into focus the level of mental illness.




*The PA’s fixation with paying for terror*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 25, 2020

*PA TV broadcast Abbas 155 times in 2019, saying:

“The Martyrs and their families are sacred,
[and so are] the wounded and the prisoners.
We must pay all of them.
If one penny remains in our hands it is for them”*




*Abbas in 2020: “We vow to our honorable Martyrs and heroic prisoners… we will pay the prisoners, no matter what they [the Israelis] want”*

Which video did official PA TV rebroadcast more than any other in 2019?
- Mahmoud Abbas’ vow that even if the PA is left with only “one penny,” it will be paid in salaries to terrorists and murderers.

The PA is so fixated with rewarding terror that PA TV broadcast a TV filler of Abbas vowing to pay terror salaries no less than 172 times, 155 times in 2019 alone:


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## Mindful

*WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims “Israel’s Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians”*
By
David Lange
 - 
May 26, 2020

Remember the Travel Palestine website, described as “The Official Site For Tourism In Palestine,” and which once claimed palestinian history “envelops more than one million years”?
In the long and storied history of palestinian Arab doozies – which include some of the most ridiculous lies the world has ever seen – that would rank right up there.
But in a recent Zoom session with fellow Israel-haters, seasoned palestinian propaganda expert Hanan Ashrawi seems to have tried to outdo this.

She had me at Israel’s source of legitimacy is the palestinians”(!). Makes total sense – what is thousands of years of Jewish history when you can take your legitimacy from a rabble of Arabs from all over the Middle East who have settled in your homeland and claim it as their own?

Actually, the _exact opposite_ is true; the legitimacy of the palestinian identity is predicated entirely on Israel’s existence – without us, there would be no distinct palestinian identity to use as a way to try eradicate us.

But then to claim we “know they are the indigenous people of the land”(!) and they “are living within a rules-based system”(!) and have “committed [themselves] to human rights”(!) – I just can’t!

WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims 'Israel's Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians'R


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## MartyNYC

Arabs laugh out loud: When were there any palestinians?! Professor Azmi Bishara: There Is No "Palestinian Nation", Never Was !


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## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims “Israel’s Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians”*
> By
> David Lange
> -
> May 26, 2020
> 
> Remember the Travel Palestine website, described as “The Official Site For Tourism In Palestine,” and which once claimed palestinian history “envelops more than one million years”?
> In the long and storied history of palestinian Arab doozies – which include some of the most ridiculous lies the world has ever seen – that would rank right up there.
> But in a recent Zoom session with fellow Israel-haters, seasoned palestinian propaganda expert Hanan Ashrawi seems to have tried to outdo this.
> 
> She had me at Israel’s source of legitimacy is the palestinians”(!). Makes total sense – what is thousands of years of Jewish history when you can take your legitimacy from a rabble of Arabs from all over the Middle East who have settled in your homeland and claim it as their own?
> 
> Actually, the _exact opposite_ is true; the legitimacy of the palestinian identity is predicated entirely on Israel’s existence – without us, there would be no distinct palestinian identity to use as a way to try eradicate us.
> 
> But then to claim we “know they are the indigenous people of the land”(!) and they “are living within a rules-based system”(!) and have “committed [themselves] to human rights”(!) – I just can’t!
> 
> WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims 'Israel's Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians'R


Thanks for the link.


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## MartyNYC

“Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”


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## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”


WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.
Click to expand...


Yes...….the "Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" award.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.
Click to expand...


They admit they’re an invention.  PLO head honcho in 1977: “Palestinian identity is just a tactical ploy”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Even though it is now been over two days since this closure, there is absolute silence from the “pro-Palestinian” crowd on social media about this. In fact, these activists are still politicizing the almost nonexistent problem of COVID-19 in Gaza, even though every single case there was quarantined and no one in the general population of Gaza has caught it.

By any measure, Palestinians in Lebanon are in worse shape than in Gaza. Their population density is far higher, they cannot build, they are not allowed to have many jobs, they are treated as enemies, and the Palestinians fleeing from Syria were forced into the already highly overcrowded camps because their grandparents happened to live in Palestine in 1948. 

Yet these people who style themselves as caring about Palestinians largely ignore Lebanon. They claim to speak “truth to power” but will never criticize Lebanese abuse of their Palestinian “guests.” 

Just like they won’t criticize Hamas for its role in the misery of Gazans. 

The only Arabs they criticize are those that they can claim are aligned with Israel.

Anyone who desires that Palestinians remain stateless and miserable in Lebanon and elsewhere rather than accept Israel’s existence is not pro-Palestinian.

(full article online)









						PLO closes UNRWA camps in Lebanon over COVID-19 fears, “pro-Palestinian activists” don’t really care
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

As early as October, 1949, Egypt’s foreign minister Muhammad Salah al-Din said, “…in demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees, the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves; or to put it quite clearly – the intention is the extermination of Israel.” https://www.usmessageboard.com/file:///C:/Users/elder/OneDrive/book/book/#_edn1_

Similarly, in 1960 Egypt’s Nasser said, “If the refugees return to Israel, Israel will cease to exist.” [ii]

In 1950, Lebanese weekly As Sayyad suggested that Arab states should recognize Israel in order to ensure the return of the refugees. That way, it added, “we should create a large Arab majority that would serve as the most effective means of reviving the Arab character of Palestine while forming a fifth column for the day of revenge and reckoning.” [iii]

In 1952, Sir Alexander Galloway, former head of UNRWA in Jordan, was quoted by Reverend Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, in front of a US Senate committee, as saying, “It is perfectly clear than the Arab nations do not want to solve the Arab refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront against the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel....Arab leaders don't give a damn whether the refugees live or die."[iv]

Prime Minister of Lebanon Abdullah el-Yafi, stated in 1966, “The day on which the Arabs’ hope for the return of the refugees to Palestine is realized will be the day of Israel’s extermination.”[v]

(full article online)









						The entire point of “return” is, and always has been, to destroy Israel (quotes)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com
				



_


----------



## MartyNYC

Prominent Egyptian historian Maged Farag: “The ‘palestinian cause’ has brought upon Egypt nothing but harm, destruction, and expense.”

Egyptian Historian Maged Farag in Support of Normalized Relations with Israel: We Must Focus on Our Own Interests, Not on the Palestinian Cause


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes...….the "Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" award.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to surrender.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims “Israel’s Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians”*
> By
> David Lange
> -
> May 26, 2020
> 
> Remember the Travel Palestine website, described as “The Official Site For Tourism In Palestine,” and which once claimed palestinian history “envelops more than one million years”?
> In the long and storied history of palestinian Arab doozies – which include some of the most ridiculous lies the world has ever seen – that would rank right up there.
> But in a recent Zoom session with fellow Israel-haters, seasoned palestinian propaganda expert Hanan Ashrawi seems to have tried to outdo this.
> 
> She had me at Israel’s source of legitimacy is the palestinians”(!). Makes total sense – what is thousands of years of Jewish history when you can take your legitimacy from a rabble of Arabs from all over the Middle East who have settled in your homeland and claim it as their own?
> 
> Actually, the _exact opposite_ is true; the legitimacy of the palestinian identity is predicated entirely on Israel’s existence – without us, there would be no distinct palestinian identity to use as a way to try eradicate us.
> 
> But then to claim we “know they are the indigenous people of the land”(!) and they “are living within a rules-based system”(!) and have “committed [themselves] to human rights”(!) – I just can’t!
> 
> WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims 'Israel's Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians'R


What she means by that is that the Palestinians have never surrendered. Israel is prematurely claiming victory.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims “Israel’s Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians”*
> By
> David Lange
> -
> May 26, 2020
> 
> Remember the Travel Palestine website, described as “The Official Site For Tourism In Palestine,” and which once claimed palestinian history “envelops more than one million years”?
> In the long and storied history of palestinian Arab doozies – which include some of the most ridiculous lies the world has ever seen – that would rank right up there.
> But in a recent Zoom session with fellow Israel-haters, seasoned palestinian propaganda expert Hanan Ashrawi seems to have tried to outdo this.
> 
> She had me at Israel’s source of legitimacy is the palestinians”(!). Makes total sense – what is thousands of years of Jewish history when you can take your legitimacy from a rabble of Arabs from all over the Middle East who have settled in your homeland and claim it as their own?
> 
> Actually, the _exact opposite_ is true; the legitimacy of the palestinian identity is predicated entirely on Israel’s existence – without us, there would be no distinct palestinian identity to use as a way to try eradicate us.
> 
> But then to claim we “know they are the indigenous people of the land”(!) and they “are living within a rules-based system”(!) and have “committed [themselves] to human rights”(!) – I just can’t!
> 
> WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims 'Israel's Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians'R
> 
> 
> 
> What she means by that is that the Palestinians have never surrendered. Israel is prematurely claiming victory.
Click to expand...


Not interested. In anything you have to say on the matter.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims “Israel’s Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians”*
> By
> David Lange
> -
> May 26, 2020
> 
> Remember the Travel Palestine website, described as “The Official Site For Tourism In Palestine,” and which once claimed palestinian history “envelops more than one million years”?
> In the long and storied history of palestinian Arab doozies – which include some of the most ridiculous lies the world has ever seen – that would rank right up there.
> But in a recent Zoom session with fellow Israel-haters, seasoned palestinian propaganda expert Hanan Ashrawi seems to have tried to outdo this.
> 
> She had me at Israel’s source of legitimacy is the palestinians”(!). Makes total sense – what is thousands of years of Jewish history when you can take your legitimacy from a rabble of Arabs from all over the Middle East who have settled in your homeland and claim it as their own?
> 
> Actually, the _exact opposite_ is true; the legitimacy of the palestinian identity is predicated entirely on Israel’s existence – without us, there would be no distinct palestinian identity to use as a way to try eradicate us.
> 
> But then to claim we “know they are the indigenous people of the land”(!) and they “are living within a rules-based system”(!) and have “committed [themselves] to human rights”(!) – I just can’t!
> 
> WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims 'Israel's Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians'R
> 
> 
> 
> What she means by that is that the Palestinians have never surrendered. Israel is prematurely claiming victory.
Click to expand...


The “palestinian cause” is not a priority among Arabs, generally. They‘re increasingly indifferent to their plight, viewed by many Arabs as self-inflicted, by refusing to make peace with Israel as Arab countries increasingly are doing so, from Egypt and Jordan to even Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states.

As this Arab commentator says, Arabs are siding with Israel, fed up with “palestinians’” bullshit 

Abd Al-Bari Atwan: The Arab Leaders Are Praying That Israel Will Get Rid of the Palestinians Once and for All


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes...….the "Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" award.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to surrender.
Click to expand...


And their future "state" gets smaller and smaller and smaller.


----------



## MartyNYC

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes...….the "Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" award.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And their future "state" gets smaller and smaller and smaller.
Click to expand...


How come in nearly three-quarters of a century, 22 Arab countries haven‘t taken in the little darlings? And, when Egypt seized Gaza in the ‘48 War, and Jordan seized Judea and Samaria, neither country created a “palestinian” state. Jordan even called the land “west bank,” not “palestine.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims “Israel’s Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians”*
> By
> David Lange
> -
> May 26, 2020
> 
> Remember the Travel Palestine website, described as “The Official Site For Tourism In Palestine,” and which once claimed palestinian history “envelops more than one million years”?
> In the long and storied history of palestinian Arab doozies – which include some of the most ridiculous lies the world has ever seen – that would rank right up there.
> But in a recent Zoom session with fellow Israel-haters, seasoned palestinian propaganda expert Hanan Ashrawi seems to have tried to outdo this.
> 
> She had me at Israel’s source of legitimacy is the palestinians”(!). Makes total sense – what is thousands of years of Jewish history when you can take your legitimacy from a rabble of Arabs from all over the Middle East who have settled in your homeland and claim it as their own?
> 
> Actually, the _exact opposite_ is true; the legitimacy of the palestinian identity is predicated entirely on Israel’s existence – without us, there would be no distinct palestinian identity to use as a way to try eradicate us.
> 
> But then to claim we “know they are the indigenous people of the land”(!) and they “are living within a rules-based system”(!) and have “committed [themselves] to human rights”(!) – I just can’t!
> 
> WATCH: Hanan Ashrawi Claims 'Israel's Source of Legitimacy is the Palestinians'R
> 
> 
> 
> What she means by that is that the Palestinians have never surrendered. Israel is prematurely claiming victory.
Click to expand...

As the official spokes-taqiyya mouthpiece for Hanan Ashrawi, could you do a press brief?

Thanks,


----------



## Hollie

While Czar / wannabe caliphate ruler, Turkish President Erdogan, is mouthing the "destroy the Jews" mantra hoping for some islamo-street cred, he's probably hoping no one notices that El Al flight landing in caliphate al Erdogan.












						Erdogan lifts 10-year Israel cargo ban while condemning Israeli actions in Palestine
					

Turkish President Erdogan condemned Israel’s plans of annexing Palestinian land while a cargo plane landed in Istanbul from Israel carrying cargo for the




					english.alarabiya.net
				




Turkish President Erdogan condemned Israel’s plans of annexing Palestinian land while a cargo plane landed in Istanbul from Israel carrying cargo for the first time in 10 years on Sunday.

Israel’s El Al airlines, the country’s flag carrier, landed in Istanbul on Sunday morning, according to a tweet from the Israeli embassy in Turkey. The tweet added that the flight will help trade between the two countries.


----------



## Hollie

Who wants to bet $1.00 that Mahmoud "_where's my welfare check" _Abbas will be back within weeks begging for kuffar welfare dollars?

My opinion is that like many dictators, Mahmoud has a loyal circle that props him up as long as they are reaping rewards. Stop the cash flow and that inner circle will become the stuff that makes dictators the ''no longer breathing'' kind of dictator.











						Palestine cuts off all ties with Israel and US: is it a bluff?
					

Mahmoud Abbas says all agreements with US and Israel are void but others call move a cry for help




					www.theguardian.com
				




It was a speech intended to define a new era. In a final, do-or-die attempt to block what appeared to be Israeli plans for a permanent land grab, the Palestinian president announced he would renege on decades of diplomacy.

From the 1990s-era Oslo accords – the first steps of a peace process – to deep security coordination between the Palestinian leadership, Israel and US intelligence agencies, all were now void, Mahmoud Abbas said in a late-night speech last week. He said the Palestinian leadership was “absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments”.

*Almost a week later, it appears Abbas may have been bluffing. *He has made similar threats multiple times before and, apart from sightings of Palestinian security forces retreating from some areas they patrol in coordination with Israeli forces, there was little sign on the ground that life had changed.


----------



## MartyNYC

Hollie said:


> Who wants to bet $1.00 that Mahmoud "_where's my welfare check" _Abbas will be back within weeks begging for kuffar welfare dollars?
> 
> My opinion is that like many dictators, Mahmoud has a loyal circle that props him up as long as they are reaping rewards. Stop the cash flow and that inner circle will become the stuff that makes dictators the ''no longer breathing'' kind of dictator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine cuts off all ties with Israel and US: is it a bluff?
> 
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas says all agreements with US and Israel are void but others call move a cry for help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a speech intended to define a new era. In a final, do-or-die attempt to block what appeared to be Israeli plans for a permanent land grab, the Palestinian president announced he would renege on decades of diplomacy.
> 
> From the 1990s-era Oslo accords – the first steps of a peace process – to deep security coordination between the Palestinian leadership, Israel and US intelligence agencies, all were now void, Mahmoud Abbas said in a late-night speech last week. He said the Palestinian leadership was “absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments”.
> 
> *Almost a week later, it appears Abbas may have been bluffing. *He has made similar threats multiple times before and, apart from sightings of Palestinian security forces retreating from some areas they patrol in coordination with Israeli forces, there was little sign on the ground that life had changed.



Arabs themselves are sick and tired of the bullshit

Saudi official says 'Deal of Century' leads to full Palestinian statehood


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

MartyNYC said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, that is some invention. I wonder if there is some kind of award they should get for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes...….the "Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" award.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And their future "state" gets smaller and smaller and smaller.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How come in nearly three-quarters of a century, 22 Arab countries haven‘t taken in the little darlings? And, when Egypt seized Gaza in the ‘48 War, and Jordan seized Judea and Samaria, neither country created a “palestinian” state. Jordan even called the land “west bank,” not “palestine.”
Click to expand...


*How come in nearly three-quarters of a century, 22 Arab countries haven‘t taken in the little darlings? *

No one likes them.
Remember when that gay Egyptian guy, I think his name was Arafat, supported Saddam when he invaded Kuwait? And then, after the war, Kuwait kicked out 400,000 Palestinian workers?
That was awesome!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In the past 10 years, Hamas has demolished not only houses, but also a mosque — a move that has received almost no attention from the international media and human rights organizations or the EU.

*“Even Jews Don’t Do Such Things to Us’*

Two weeks after the demolition of the Sha’ath home, Hamas demolished a house belonging to an elderly widow from the al-Shinawwi family in the Gaza Strip. Palestinians pointed out that the demolition took place during the Islamic holy fasting month of Ramadan.

“May God punish you,” the elderly woman, weeping, said in a video posted on Facebook. “Hamas are sons of dogs; even the Jews don’t do such things to us. I still haven’t paid my debts for the construction of the house.”

In April, Hamas bulldozers demolished a house belonging to Sultan al-Astal, also in Khan Yunis, on the pretext that it was built without a license.

Al-Astal told the Palestinian newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida that he and his family have “lived on this land for 150 years, and I inherited it from my father and grandfather.” He added:

“Despite the fear of the spread of the coronavirus epidemic, Hamas members arrived at my home at dawn. They demolished my house and beat my wife and daughter. They behaved as if they were liberating land occupied by the Jews. Hamas is destroying the homes of innocent and oppressed people.”

(full article online)









						Palestinians: The Home Demolitions No One Talks About | United with Israel
					

While international human rights groups and the European Union are condemning Israel, they are ignoring home demolitions carried out by Hamas in the Gaza Strip.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas is trying to embarrass its PLO rivals, of course. But that doesn’t mean this isn’t a good question. If the PLO maintains the VIP system, it means that they re being very selective in which cooperation they are willing to stop with Israel – and the Palestinian leaders  aren’t likely to give up one of their  biggest perks.

(full article online)









						Will Palestinian VIPs turn in their cards that allow easy travel to Israel?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

ICC Orders PA’s Abbas to Decide — Oslo Accords Dead or Alive?
					

The entire ICC document, without exception, appears to be an argument in defense of the position of the Palestinian Authority.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBREF:  ICC *Pre-Trail Chamber I • Request for Additional Information* • No.ICC-01/18 • Date: 26 May 2020.PDF
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF:*  This is the part that is really going to make the discussion very interesting in the near future.  It appears that someone in the Hague is actually listening, and unafraid to ask the hard questions...

6.  The  Chamber requests  Palestine to provide additional information on this statement, including on the question whether it pertains to any of the Oslo agreements between Palestine and Israel, by no later than 10 June 2020.

------------------------------
REQUESTS Palestine to provide the additional information referred to in paragraph 6 of the present order by no later than10 June 2020; and,
ORDERS the Prosecutor and INVITES Israel to submit a response to any additional information provided by  Palestine by no later than 24 June 2020.
----------------------------------------
Wafa Palestine News Agency,​*President Abbas declares end to agreements with Israel, US; turns over-responsibility on occupied lands to Israel*, 19 May 2020
​


Sixties Fan said:


> ICC Orders PA’s Abbas to Decide — Oslo Accords Dead or Alive?
> 
> 
> The entire ICC document, without exception, appears to be an argument in defense of the position of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com


*(COMMENT)*

It is going to be interesting as to the framework the ICC will establish in order to logically come to decisions and conclusions.  There is also the matter of the "date."  


			
				WAFA Publish Date: 2020/05/19 said:
			
		

> "The Palestine Liberation Organization and the State of Palestine are absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments and of all the obligations based on these understandings and agreements, including the security ones,"
> *SOURCE: President Abbas declares end to agreements with Israel, US; turns over responsibility on occupied lands to Israel •  **WAFA News Outlet Article RAMALLAH, Tuesday, May 19, 2020*



So what impact does the date have on the decisions to be made?  Is President Mahmoud Abbas saying that the PLO understood that prior to 19 May 2020, the territory they considered occupied was the responsibility of Israel _(IE NOT the Arab Palestinians)_?

What changed on 19 May 2020?  And if the territory, prior to 19 May was the responsibility of Israel, and Israel not being a signatory to the ICC, what impact (if any) does that have?    

Hmmm!                    





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ICC Orders PA’s Abbas to Decide — Oslo Accords Dead or Alive?
> 
> 
> The entire ICC document, without exception, appears to be an argument in defense of the position of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com


Time for Abbas to shit or get off the pot.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ICC Orders PA’s Abbas to Decide — Oslo Accords Dead or Alive?
> 
> 
> The entire ICC document, without exception, appears to be an argument in defense of the position of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Abbas to shit or get off the pot.
Click to expand...

Time for local leaders to act...
If they decide, the PA can be dissolved in a matter of weeks.


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinians: The Home Demolitions No One Talks About*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
May 27, 2020 at 5:00 am*



While international human rights groups and the European Union have also been condemning Israel, they are ignoring home demolitions carried out by Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
In February, Hamas notified 50 families... that their homes would be destroyed on the pretext that they were built without a license. The families were instructed to evacuate their homes within two weeks.... Last year, Hamas demolished another house in Khan Yunis belonging to Bassam Duhan, also on the pretext that it was built without a license. Duhan, a father of eight, set up a tent in front of the demolished house. He complained that relatives of senior Hamas officials had also built homes in the same area, but no one destroyed their homes.
Last year, a youth group in the Gaza Strip called on the Arab League and other Arab and Islamic parties to launch an investigation into Hamas's crimes against Palestinians. Needless to say, the group has never received a reply from the Arab League or any other organization in the Arab and Islamic countries. The appeal came after Hamas militiamen used excessive force to prevent Palestinians from protesting economic hardship and Hamas corruption.
In the absence of an international response, Hamas continues to demolish homes in the Gaza Strip -- and other crimes against its own people -- with impunity, leaving hundreds of families without shelter.







On May 15, Hamas bulldozers demolished a partially constructed house belonging to the Sha'ath family in the city of Khan Yunis. Hamas claimed it was being built without a proper permit. According to eyewitnesses, dozens of Hamas militiamen armed with batons and electric stun-batons beat women and children and hurled abuse at other members of the Sha'ath family during the demolition. Pictured: Khan Yunis. (Image source: Dans

Palestinians: The Home Demolitions No One Talks About


----------



## Hollie

This can't be a surprise to Abbas. He made the decision to end all security agreements with Israel. 












						Israel prevents Palestinian forces from entering West Bank village
					

The move occurred after Mahmoud Abbas halted security coordination with Israel over West Bank annexation plans




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




When Palestinian police officers got word of a violent dispute between families in the Nablus-area village of Qusra in the northern occupied West Bank on Monday night, they found themselves entering uncharted waters. 

It was one of the first major incidents to happen in the area following the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) decision last week to end security coordination with Israel, in protest of Israeli plans to begin formally annexing large swathes of the West Bank in July.

Following the presidential announcement, Palestinian security forces have withdrawn from Area B of the West Bank, the 21 percent of the occupied territory where the PA is officially in charge of civil affairs, but otherwise remain under Israeli army control, as defined by the 1993 Oslo Accords.


----------



## Hollie

If I'm reading this correctly, Bassem is really angry. 



*Look who's talking! PA accuses Israel of planning expansion “from the Nile to the Euphrates”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 27, 2020

*Israel is “the greedy Zionist cancer”*

Israel - “the greedy Zionist cancer” – is scheming to expand its territory to extend “from the Nile [River] to the Euphrates [River]” according to regular columnist Bassem Barhoum at the official PA daily:


> *“The goal is to stop the expansion of the greedy Zionist cancer, at a time when the saying ‘From the Nile [River] to the Euphrates [River]’ is still arousing the desires of leaders in Israel.”*
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 15, 2020]


This Palestinian accusation is projection par excellence. As Palestinian Media Watch has documented numerous times,  it is the PA that tells its people that their goal is a “Palestine” that reaches “from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea,” and includes – and destroys - all of the State of Israel.
Senior Fatah official Tawfiq Tirawi recently stressed this view, claiming that “our Palestinian land is from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea”:


----------



## Hollie

If you criticize the caliph or the caliphate, you accept a risk.











						Cameraman criticized Palestinian Authority, fired from Associated Press
					

Eyad Hamad, a veteran Palestinian cameraman, received threats from PA security officials who told him that they would see to it that he gets fired from AP.




					www.jpost.com
				




Eyad Hamad, a veteran Palestinian cameraman, said on Wednesday that he was fired from the Associated Press (AP) after the Palestinian Authority filed a “complaint” against him.

Hamad, 63, a resident of Bethlehem, told _The Jerusalem Post_ that the complaint was filed against him because he had criticized the Palestinian security forces for arresting and beating a Palestinian journalist.


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arabs are stealing land again. 

It seems that Hamas, which is pretending to be a government, is pretending that homes were built illegally on lands that Hamas pretends are government lands. 









						Is Hamas becoming second power in ruling Palestinians?
					

Hamas is destroying houses in the Gaza Strip, as it considers them illegally built on government territories, while its understandings with Israel are ongoing despite Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ announcement about halting all agreements with Israel.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Hamas is destroying houses in the Gaza Strip, as it considers them illegally built on government territories, while its understandings with Israel are ongoing despite Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ announcement about halting all agreements with Israel.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Bulldozers from the Palestinian Land Authority (PLA) affiliated with Hamas in the Gaza Strip demolished May 21 housing units in al-Qaraya al-Badawiya area in northern Gaza. The authority explained in a statement issued on the same day that the housing units “encroach on agricultural lands.”


----------



## Hollie

Indeed.

Live by the gee-had....

*Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian attacker: army*



ReutersMay 29, 2020




View photos
Scene of an incident near Ramallah in the Israeli-occupied West Band

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli soldiers shot and killed a Palestinian attacker who tried to run them over with a car in the occupied West Bank on Friday, the military said.
No Israelis were hurt in the car-ramming attack near a Jewish settlement, the military said in a statement.
"In response, the troops fired and neutralized the assailant," it said









						Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian attacker: army
					

Israeli soldiers shot and killed a Palestinian attacker who tried to run them over with a car in the occupied West Bank on Friday, the military said.  No Israelis were hurt in the car-ramming attack near a Jewish settlement, the military said in a statement.  Palestinian officials had no...




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## Hollie

Cults of all kinds have a common theme of indoctrinating the young as a means to reinforce the goals and tenets of the cult.












						Palestinian children's TV show features poem promoting child martyrdom
					

A Palestinian government children’s TV program aired a poem advocating youth martyrdom and the use of assault rifles, according to a clip of the show posted by an Israeli watchdog group.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




A Palestinian government children’s TV program aired a poem advocating youth martyrdom and the use of assault rifles, according to a clip of the show posted by an Israeli watchdog group.

_The Best Home_, a children’s show broadcast by the Palestinian Authority government, included a segment where a young girl read a poem about taking up arms and dying as a martyr on Nov. 21.

“I am the Palestinian lion cub ... The blood of the martyrs flows in my veins,” said the girl, according to a translation posted by Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli watchdog group. “If the drums of war call, I harvest the souls in the fields. My sword is drawn and won’t return to the sheath.”

“The armies of treachery fear me, and the Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me,” the poem continued. “I have not sold my homelands, and have not given up my assault rifle.”

The show’s host responded, “Bravo, bravo!” and clapped as the audience of children applauded.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals have this need to glorify their past association with Nazi Germany.













						Fatah removes Nazi themed caricature after being slammed by Erdan
					

Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan slammed Palestinian Authority President on Tuesday for saying he wants peace, called him “two faced liar.”




					www.jpost.com
				




Fatah removed a Nazi-themed cartoon hours after being slammed by Public Security Minister Gilad Erdanon Tuesday, the pro-Israeli group 'DigiTell nework' reported on Wednesday. 

Erdan slammed Palestinian Authority President Mahmmoud Abbas on Tuesday for claiming in the UN he extends his hand in peace to Israel.


> While the Holocaust-denier Abu Mazen claimed that he is interested in peace today at the UN, look what his own Fatah Party shared on its Twitter account! His Jew-hatred and bigotry is a disgusting reminder of what a two-faced liar he is! #Saynotohate#


Calling him “Holocaust denier”, a reference to an earlier speech in which Abbas claimed violence against Jews was the result of the “social function” of Jews in banking, Erdan tweeted a cartoon that Fatah released on Tuesday in which a Jewish victim of the Nazis becomes the oppressor of a Palestinian person.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud gettin’ it done.




			https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/palestinian-leader-cuts-ties-with-israel-over-annexation-plans-his-own-people-feel-the-pinch/2020/05/29/9f70c39e-9f61-11ea-be06-af5514ee0385_story.html
		


The suspension of cooperation, designed to pressure Israel and galvanize international opposition to its annexation plans, could further squeeze Palestinians already suffering the economic effects of the coronavirus shutdown. As the public health lockdown begins to lift, unemployment in the West Bank has soared to 35 percent according to some estimates. More than 300,000 workers have lost their wages, many of them dependent on jobs in construction and health care in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

"This is your last warning, until I issue another last warning. I'm prepared to issue repeated last warnings in advance of a new last warning"







*Fatah announces “last warning,” threatens an “explosion” and “self-sacrifice,” if Israel annexes Israeli cities and Jordan Valley*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 31, 2020




*Abbas in Fatah cartoon:
“Last warning, the evil deeds will return and harm the evil one”*

*PA called for “fighting this plan… regardless of the extent of the sacrifices and the quantity of the Martyrs’ blood… There can be no compromises of any kind.”*
*Fatah: “We are your loyal soldiers… obligated to the promise of Yasser Arafat and the Martyrs who drew and immersed the map of the homeland in their pure blood. We warn the occupation state… Fatah will watch you, and Fatah’s options will be completely open. Occupying invaders, we warn you not to put Fatah’s response to your aggression and violations to the test.”*

Abbas: “The [Palestinian] leadership has today decided the following: First, the PLO and the State of Palestine are absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments and of all the commitments based on these understandings and agreements, including the security ones.”

[Official PA TV, May 19, 2020]




Mahmoud "_last warnin_g" Abbas has some rather quaint notions of something he calls a "State of Palestine".


----------



## Hollie

*Stop Palestinian Incitement & Terror*

The new appalling type of terrorism... How can people hate so much to get back at nature?


----------



## Hollie

The linked article references the potential strengthening of something called the PLO as something called the PA will be weakened. That seems difficult to quantify in terms of the alphabet soup labels given to what seems are endless Islamic terrorist organizations, authorities, etc., that are beneficiaries of international welfare monies. 











						Abbas’ decision to cut ties with Israel will weaken PA, boost PLO
					

The Palestinian president's decision to sever relations with Israel means strengthening the larger Palestine Liberation Organization, which represents all Palestinians and is not limited to the occupied territories.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




While the long-term ramifications of the Palestinian leadership’s decision to break administrative and security ties with Israel are still unclear, it can only mean the strengthening of the Palestine Liberation Organization at the cost of weakening the local Palestinian government.


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Palestinian Girl Praises Terrorist 'Hero' to Please Ramallah Governor | United with Israel
					

A Palestinian child praises the leader of the most lethal terror attack in Israel's history and the Ramallah governor, who supports the murder of Jews.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the Arabs-Moslems wasted no time celebrating death and misery. 



*PA exploits tragic killing in US*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 1, 2020





*Text on cartoon in English: *“Black lives matter”
The Palestinian Authority and Fatah were both quick to exploit the recent tragedy in the US to demonize Israel by comparing Israeli soldiers' actions, to the American policeman who killed an African American. The PA’s repeating libel is that Israel deliberately kills Palestinians and it uses every opportunity to disseminate the lie.
The cartoon above was published following the death of African American US citizen George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota, on May 25, 2020. Floyd was killed by a white police officer named Derek Chauvin who kneeled on his neck for almost 9 minutes when arresting him, ignoring his pleas that he could not breathe. Following Floyd’s death, violent protests erupted across the US. Officer Chauvin has since been charged with third degree murder and manslaughter.


----------



## Hollie

http://www.ticp.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/WhatsApp-Image-2016-10-06-at-15.31.53.jpeg


----------



## Hollie

The Pal-Arabs have decided that paying their Islamic terrorists, thereby maintaining an incentive for acts of Islamic terrorism, is a necessary component of the mini-caliphate.

This is another opportunity for donor countries to the Abbas Islamic terrorist franchise to make decisions about halting their welfare contributions which support Islamic terrorism.



*PA and Palestinian banks plan to defy Israel’s Anti-Terror Law*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 2, 2020









						PA and Palestinian banks plan to defy Israel’s Anti-Terror Law | PMW Analysis
					

The PA announced yesterday that in the coming days it will pay the monthly salaries to imprisoned terrorists in cooperation with and through the banks that are active in the PA.




					palwatch.org
				




The PA announced yesterday that in the coming days it will pay the monthly salaries to imprisoned terrorists in cooperation with and through the banks that are active in the PA.

This is a defiant move against Israeli authority and rule of law by the banks that are apparently under pressure from the PA.

Banks that will receive the terrorists’ salaries are violating a new law that came into effect in Judea and Samaria on May 9, 2020. The new law determines that paying rewards for acts of terror constitutes a crime, and anyone who is involved in the process is committing a crime – including the banks and their employees.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely folks those Arab-Moslem death cultists.

Just more of the same where children are raised from the earliest age to believe that mass murder / suicide is what every young death cultist should strive for. 




*PA children echo adults' terror values*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 3, 2020




*Young girl: Child murderer is Palestinian symbol of "great"*
*Young girl to Ramallah governor: You are "great" - a “sister of Dalal” - killer of 12 children and 25 adults*


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of the mini-caliphate of West Bank'istan,  has ordered Palestinian Civil Affairs Commission director Hussein al-Sheikh, to refuse transfers of tax dollars from ''The Zionists". 

That's fine, al-. Just remember the mini-caliphate has a lot of Islamic terrorist mouths to feed. With the foreign welfare fraud endowment of billions of dollars per year not rolling in like it used to, you're going to need to find some new ways to fund the gee-had.














						In move seen as ‘nearly suicidal,’ Abbas’s PA refuses tax transfers from Israel
					

Palestinian Authority, which has formally cut security ties to Israel over annexation plans, heavily relies on these funds amid drop in donor aid, economic crisis caused by virus




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*Continuing to cut ties, Palestinian Authority refuses tax transfers from Israel

Analyst says move ‘nearly suicidal’ for PA that is heavily reliant on these funds amid drop in donor aid and economic crisis caused by coronavirus*


----------



## Hollie

If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".











						Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
					

The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.




					www.jpost.com
				




Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.

"I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.


Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.

Just like apartheid South Africa.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.
> 
> Just like apartheid South Africa.
Click to expand...


Nice soundbyte.
Yet they've been voting in Israeli elections longer than in any other country in history.

And who is this 'Israel' who's thoughts you always assume to know?
Don't Israelis like any people have a variety of opinions?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.
> 
> Just like apartheid South Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice soundbyte.
> Yet they've been voting in Israeli elections longer than in any other country in history.
> 
> And who is this 'Israel' who's thoughts you always assume to know?
> Don't Israelis like any people have a variety of opinions?
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Israelis have different opinions of how to carry out their settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.
> 
> Just like apartheid South Africa.
Click to expand...

Indeed, another of your silly slogans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.
> 
> Just like apartheid South Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice soundbyte.
> Yet they've been voting in Israeli elections longer than in any other country in history.
> 
> And who is this 'Israel' who's thoughts you always assume to know?
> Don't Israelis like any people have a variety of opinions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Israelis have different opinions of how to carry out their settler colonial project.
Click to expand...

Indeed, another slogan from your collection of slogans. 

Indeed, it's curious that you're reduced to slogans as an excuse for your ignorance.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.
> 
> Just like apartheid South Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice soundbyte.
> Yet they've been voting in Israeli elections longer than in any other country in history.
> 
> And who is this 'Israel' who's thoughts you always assume to know?
> Don't Israelis like any people have a variety of opinions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Israelis have different opinions of how to carry out their settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


Is it a bad thing,
or only Arabs are allowed that?


----------



## Hollie

While largely symbolic, I the message is important. 











						US court: Iran, Syria, Hamas, IJ can be liable for 'lone-wolf' attackers
					

The court only decided liability, and could take years to decide actual damages for certain Knife Intifada-era attacks.




					www.jpost.com
				




US court: Iran, Syria, Hamas, IJ can be liable for 'lone-wolf' attackers.

The court only decided liability, and could take years to decide actual damages for certain Knife Intifada-era attacks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

Sometimes your point is lost between you snide remarks.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the Israelis have different opinions of how to carry out their settler colonial project.


*(COMMENT)*

 Here we go again with the "settler-colonial project" intentional misinformation.

At one point, several years ago, I thought that your personal campaign to spread adverse information on Israel using this "Colonial Project" propaganda was myopic of you and almost unique.  But then I was made aware of Dr Elia Zureik, Department Head, Sociology and Anthropology at Doha Institute for Graduate Studies.  *Robert C. DiPrizio,* Assistant Professor, International Security and Military Studies Department, US Air Command and Staff College, Air University, made an academic contribution, with information based on the published work of Dr Zureik, entitled *Israel's Colonial Project in Palestine: Brutal Pursuit, Israel’s Colonial Project in Palestine: Brutal Pursuit* by Elia Zureik, Routledge Publishing, 2016, 278pp.  As Robert DiPrizio points out, "a running theme throughout much of Dr Zureik's work, concerns the various ways in which Israel exercises control over Palestinians, both its citizens as well as those in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT)."  I mention this only in the interest of fairness, as an exculpatory view → and NOT as an _ad Hominem_ assault on our friend "P F Tinmore.*"*

The theme that concerns how Israel (supposedly) exercises an unhealthy civil and political control over the Arab-Palestinians in the disputed territory, is a view that is peppered across the entire educational spectrum of the of those people that are interested in the subject matter.  And in this select set of those people that see  Israeli-Palestinian political relations with this view in mind, as Dr Zureik illuminates is that:

_ "Colonialism has three foundational concerns – violence, territory, and population control – all of which rest on racialist discourse and practice. Placing the Zionist project in Israel/Palestine within the context of settler colonialism reveals strategies and goals behind the region’s rules of governance that have included violence, repressive state laws, and racialised forms of surveillance."_​
An opposing view, by a separate set of those that are interested in the issue, see the issue as an entanglement of multiple concerns that include the territorial integrity of Israel's sovereignty, the defense and security of the nation against jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters that have been allowed to grow generationally for a century, AND the requirement to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.  Anyone who cares to look can see that the Arab Palestinians are not the helpless victim under the heal of Israeli oppression they make themselves out to be.  They are an extremely dangerous people who's culture is hopelessly contaminated behaviors and antisocial activities, such as an inability to empathize - “lack of remorse” and want to emulate martyrs of the past. An example is the iconic stature of* Dalal al-Maghribi*, and the idolization of her and her sociopathic behaviors. She holds an importance in both her reputation for ruthlessness and violent achievements. This is somewhat demonstrated in the fact that the Arab Palestinians see it as an imperative to maintain paying stipends to those convicted of such behaviors. They are a people that hold no remorse about lining-up women and children, mowing them down with a machinegun, and then making the action a  → symbol worthy of veneration.

What the Arab Palestinians consider violent police and security actions, repressive state laws, and racialized forms of surveillance - are, in effect, the necessary response to a people that have a policy of (what they consider) heroic operations were carried out on that street – stabbings, bombings, shootings, and other operations.

I think that many of the complaints the Arab Palestine amplify are now considered by many as restraints against a people with no redeeming qualities and may never make positive contributions to the region or the international community in general.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

There was an amazing article in Haaretz on Tuesday, written by former Palestinian negotiator Bishara Bahbah .

Bahbah gave advice to Palestinian leadership that is obvious and rational. Which is exactly what makes this article amazing – Arabs usually coddle the Palestinian leaders rather than tell them hard truths.

Excerpts:

(full article online)









						Advising Palestinian leaders to act rationally is supremely irrational
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

I found this to be shocking. The Shia Iran enabled/managed mini-caliphate in Gaza is not sharing priorities with the internationally funded welfare fraud recipients managing the competing mini-caliphate in the West Bank.











						Fatah and Hamas blame each other for reconciliation failure
					

GAZA CITY: Fatah and Hamas have blamed each other for their lack of reconciliation following the release of US President Donald Trump’s Middle East peace plan. The Trump peace plan, supported by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, calls for the creation of a demilitarized Palestinian...




					www.arabnews.com
				




GAZA CITY: Fatah and Hamas have blamed each other for their lack of reconciliation following the release of US President Donald Trump’s Middle East peace plan.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Arabs-Moslems occupying land in portions of the West Bank consider converting to Shia Islamism, the Iranian Mullocrats might consider a new zip code the nascent "Little Tehran".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't annex Palestinian towns, Palestinians won’t get citizenship
> 
> 
> The plan the Trump administration released in late January, titled “Peace to Prosperity,” would allow for Israel to apply civil law, as opposed to military law, to 30% of the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will not apply its sovereignty to Palestinian towns within areas that it plans to annex in the West Bank, and as such, Palestinians – including those living in the Jordan Valley – will not be granted Israeli citizenship, American and Israeli sources said on Tuesday.
> 
> "I don't anticipate Palestinians becoming Israeli, based on the principles laid out in the plan,” a Trump administration source said.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.
> 
> Just like apartheid South Africa.
Click to expand...

*
Indeed, Israel wants to keep the Palestinians in bantustans and off the voter rolls.*

That's awful!!!!

They should move to Syria and Saudi Arabia where they can get on the voting rolls.


----------



## Hollie

The mini-caliphate ruled by Mahmoud Abbas is expected fare rather poorly due to affects of the Wuhan virus and of course Emir Abbas setting priorities that focus on financing Islamic terrorism and paying those who commit acts of Islamic terrorism. 

It sure sounds like the World Bank is going to have to press harder for welfare donations to prop up the West Bank Islamic terrorist syndicate. 











						West Bank poverty may double over pandemic: World Bank
					

Palestinian economy is set to shrink between 7.6 and 11 percent, a severe downturn after 1 percent growth in 2019.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Poverty in the occupied West Bank may double as Palestinians are hammered by the economic fallout of the coronavirus pandemic, the World Bank warned on Monday.  

But the Palestinian Authority's financial situation is "expected to become increasingly difficult" due to a loss of income and increased spending on healthcare and other areas, the World Bank said in a report.

The fallout is expected to see the number of households living below the poverty line increase this year from 14 to 30 percent in the West Bank, largely due to Palestinians being unable to cross into Israel for work.


----------



## Hollie

There's a lot of bluster coming from the Arabs-Moslems. Declarations of war from the welfare dependent.












						Israeli annexation plan 'war declaration': Palestine
					

Palestinian foreign minister says US can no longer be accepted as sole broker for Palestine-Israel negotiations - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				





*Israeli annexation plan 'war declaration': Palestine*
*Palestinian foreign minister says US can no longer be accepted as sole broker for Palestine-Israel negotiations*
Peter Kenny   |01.06.2020


*GENEVA*
The Palestinian Authority is breaking off all agreements with Israel over its plans to annex part of the occupied West Bank, Palestine's foreign minister said Monday, calling Israel’s move a "declaration of war on Palestinian human rights."


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie,      et al,  

*BLUF:*  OH, this breaks my damn heart_*!*_ _(He says with a sarcastic grin...)_



Hollie said:


> *Israeli annexation plan 'war declaration': Palestine*
> *Palestinian foreign minister says US can no longer be accepted as sole broker for Palestine-Israel negotiations*
> Peter Kenny   |01.06.2020
> *GENEVA*
> The Palestinian Authority is breaking off all agreements with Israel over its plans to annex part of the occupied West Bank, Palestine's foreign minister said Monday, calling Israel’s move a "declaration of war on Palestinian human rights."


*(COMMENT)*

I think this announcement → that America is no longer a broker over the Israeli-Palestinian Negotiations → has become an  → annual affair.  

As for the "declaration of war on Palestinian human rights"  →  how does that effectively change anything.

I was surprised to hear that the US does not yet have a mutual defense pact with Israel.  I agree with Senator Graham, we should do that as soon as possible.



*BTW:* Has anyone heard about movement ICC RFI on the Status of Israeli-Palestinian OSLO agreements. Somehow, it might affect the court's ruling on whether it has jurisdiction to investigate alleged war crimes in Palestinian territories.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

While I can applaud the Norwegian government for taking a position that (somewhat) condemns the Cult indoctrination that pervades the Arab-Moslem schools of hate, this madness has been going on for decades. The stronger message would have been a cessation of welfare payments until the islamo-madness ends. 











						Norway to withhold funding to Palestinians over textbooks
					

The European Union commissioned a report by the Georg Eckert Institute for International Textbook Research following a report by the NGO IMPACT-se that found incitement to hatred and violence.




					m.jpost.com
				




The European Union commissioned a report by the Georg Eckert Institute for International Textbook Research following a report by the NGO IMPACT-se that found incitement to hatred and violence.

Norway said Thursday that it will withhold half of the year’s funding to the Palestinian Authority’s education system until it stops using textbooks that promote hate and violence.

Foreign Affairs Minister Ine Eriksen Søreide made the announcement in response to a parliamentary question on the issue. She said Norwegian aid to the Palestinian education sector does not go for textbooks or other educational material, and is part of a larger program that includes donors from several countries. In 2019, the program included the construction of 220 new classrooms and 63 new public schools.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As far as I can tell, in the 53 years of “occupation,” not a single Palestinian prisoner has committed suicide in those horrendous Israeli prisons we keep hearing about. (Several Jews have killed themselves in Israeli prisons, however.)





__





						NGO warns of suicides in Hamas prisons. (I don’t think this ever happened to Palestinians in Israeli prison.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

What's it like to win the lottery?



*PA death worship: A mother is proud of her child’s death for Allah*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 5, 2020

*“My son is a sacrifice for the sake of the homeland…  I’m proud... I’m prepared to sacrifice even more. I’m prepared to give more Martyrs”*



The PA encourages its children to go into areas of confrontation and participate in fighting with Israeli soldiers, and when the children are killed, the PA presents them as heroic Martyrs. In fact, their deaths are presented by the PA as an “achievement.” Often, the parents of the dead children also present their children’s deaths positively.

One particularly shocking response of a mother of such a child “Martyr” was recently posted by Abbas’ Fatah Movement. On May 13, 2020, when Israeli special forces were in a PA town to arrest a suspected terrorist, a Palestinian teenager joined the confrontations and was killed. The mother was called on the phone by PA Chairman Abbas and by the way she spoke to him about her son’s death, you would think she had won the lottery:


----------



## Hollie

It's a party. Get your pointy hats and poppers. 













						In Call With Proud Mother, PA President Abbas Glorifies ‘Martyrdom’ of Palestinian Teen
					

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas addresses the 74th session of the United Nations General Assembly at UN headquarters in New …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




*In Call With Proud Mother, PA President Abbas Glorifies ‘Martyrdom’ of Palestinian Teen*
*



by Algemeiner Staff*





Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas addresses the 74th session of the United Nations General Assembly at UN headquarters in New York City, Sept. 26, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Lucas Jackson.

Details of a phone conversation between Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and a Palestinian mother whose son was killed in a recent confrontation with the IDF revealed a mood of near celebration over the boy’s death.
“My son is a sacrifice for the sake of the homeland,” the mother of Zaid Al-Qaysiya — a Palestinian teenager who was killed near the city of Hebron on May 13 — told the Palestinian leader.


----------



## Hollie

No Pie for Palestine
					

Once, I was down to the last bite of a really good blueberry pie. My wife moved in with her fork to have some and I (playfully) poked her in




					townhall.com
				





While it’s not a perfect analogy to describe the Middle East in terms of a pie, it’s a funny story and relevant metaphor. Israel shares a small hotly contested piece of land with Arabs who do not share Israel’s national or religious ideals. The pie analogy works because the Land, like a pie, is finite. After someone eats the last piece, it’s gone. Palestinian Arabs don’t seem to realize (or maybe care) that the reality is that each passing day, year, and decade of their intransigence leaves them with less pie. Soon, there will be no pie for “Palestine.”

This is a generations-old problem. They want to deny Israel any of the pie, much less even sitting at the table. Despite their denial, Israel grows and thrives. While Israel recognized the terrorist PLO, established to destroy Israel, as the legitimate representative of the “Palestinian” people in the 1990s, today there are multiple Palestinian Arab terror groups that compete to represent and control the “Palestinians.” In all cases, this is less about the well being of the people they claim to represent, and more about fighting Israel.

Palestinian Arabs have been offered repeated opportunities that would have seen two states going back to 1947. And they have turned their backs on and rejected each opportunity, typically with violence.


----------



## Hollie

Former Palestinian Arab Terrorist Explains: Who Profits from the Occupation Lie?


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists in Hamas are again railing against Arab-Moslem nations normalizing (at least modestly), relations with The Zionists™️.

Hamas refuses to acknowledge that Arab-Moslem nations have a certain “what’s in it for me” attitude that derives from a certain “what can Israel offer that Hamas can’t“, reality.









						Hamas: Normalising ties with Israel is the 'new Palestinian setback'
					

The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas criticised the Arab countries normalising relations with the Israeli occupation, describing the latest wave of normalisation as the 'new Palestinian setback...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas criticised the Arab countries normalising relations with the Israeli occupation, describing the latest wave of normalisation as the “new Palestinian setback”, a statement revealed.

Marking the 53rd anniversary of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, which has been referred to by Palestinians as a setback, Hamas announced that the Arab and Islamic countries are normalising ties with Israel while it is planning to annex the occupied West Bank, neglecting the two-state solution.

“The anniversary of the Arab setback comes this year amidst a new setback as Arab and Islamic states are running to normalise relations with the Israeli enemy,” the statement expressed, noting that these measures boost Israel’s stability and desire to extend sovereignty over the Palestinian lands.


----------



## Hollie

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 



*PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020



The end of Israel is inevitable and terrorists are “heroes” – this is the message from the popular PA TV children’s host Walaa Al-Battat in a new song she recorded that was broadcast on PA TV Live.

Using the tune of the famous Italian anti-fascist protest song “Bye Beautiful” (_Bella Ciao_), Walaa - dressed as a prisoner - presents the State of Israel as a temporary “occupation,” existing on “stolen land,” because “Palestine is Arabian.” However, not all is lost because the Palestinians will “get all of it back” and Israel “will disappear.” The chorus “Bye deal” is a reference to US President Trump’s peace plan - “the deal of the century,” which the PA has rejected outright. Visually the music video includes scenes of Israel’s War of Independence – clarifying that the “occupation” that exists and will disappear is Israel in its entirety. Additional footage shows Palestinian rioters throwing rocks and burning tires and other violence.


----------



## Hollie

Are they ''extremists'' or pious Moslems when they follow the admonitions in their hate and war manual?



*Muslims destiny to exterminate Jews, in post by student group at USAID-funded Palestinian university*

An-Najah National University’s ‎Islamic student group, Facebook  | Mar 30, 2014





The Facebook page of the National University’s Islamic student group of An-Najah University in ‎Nablus, one of the schools funded by USAID, called for murder of Jews posting this picture ‎of a religious Jews hiding in fear and the Islamic source from the Hadith that the PA interprets as ‎anticipating the genocide of Jews. Tree: “O Muslim, O servant of Allah, there is a ‎Jew behind me – come kill him.”‎ Note: The Islamic belief that Jews will be killed ‎by Muslims as a precursor to the Resurrection ‎appears in the Hadith (sayings and practices ‎attributed to Islam's Prophet Muhammad).This ‎Islamic tradition asserts that as the killing of ‎Jews progresses, Jews will hide behind ‎stones and trees, but they will expose the ‎Jews and call out: "Oh Muslim, servant of ‎Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill ‎him." Only one tree, called the Gharqad, will ‎hide the Jews from the Muslims. ‎


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,

*BLUF:*  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians, in particular the leadership, have the moral capacity to understand that targeting children this way is fundamentally wrong.  The Arab Palestinian that cannot tell the difference the intentional murder of innocents and lawful combat, cannot be expected to make the necessary distinction between good and evil when it comes to the intentional indoctrination of children towards unlawful activity; and incitement to violence.



Hollie said:


> *PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020


*(COMMENT)*

I would have thought that projects, programs, and activities designed to implant or induce the enlistment of children under the age of 15 years _(being children who are particularly vulnerable this kind of TV programming)_ to participate actively in hostilities in both international and non-international armed conflicts, would be self-evident.  But I guess in a corrupt culture, every little detail in terms of morality must be spelled out.

This is one of those topics that Arab Palestinians think they are exempt from.  I notice that the Arab Palestinians knowingly ignore _(an unethical decision path)_ the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) on prohibited activities that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel); could not hope to morally understand that Palestinian children's TV shows promoting child martyrdom are just simply wrong.  And once we, as outside observers, understand that they lack the ability to do the right thing, we have to begin to isolate them from the rest of society do they cannot do further harm.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians, in particular the leadership, have the moral capacity to understand that targeting children this way is fundamentally wrong.  The Arab Palestinian that cannot tell the difference the intentional murder of innocents and lawful combat, cannot be expected to make the necessary distinction between good and evil when it comes to the intentional indoctrination of children towards unlawful activity; and incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would have thought that projects, programs, and activities designed to implant or induce the enlistment of children under the age of 15 years _(being children who are particularly vulnerable this kind of TV programming)_ to participate actively in hostilities in both international and non-international armed conflicts, would be self-evident.  But I guess in a corrupt culture, every little detail in terms of morality must be spelled out.
> 
> This is one of those topics that Arab Palestinians think they are exempt from.  I notice that the Arab Palestinians knowingly ignore _(an unethical decision path)_ the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) on prohibited activities that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel); could not hope to morally understand that Palestinian children's TV shows promoting child martyrdom are just simply wrong.  And once we, as outside observers, understand that they lack the ability to do the right thing, we have to begin to isolate them from the rest of society do they cannot do further harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The coal mine is calling the kettle black.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians, in particular the leadership, have the moral capacity to understand that targeting children this way is fundamentally wrong.  The Arab Palestinian that cannot tell the difference the intentional murder of innocents and lawful combat, cannot be expected to make the necessary distinction between good and evil when it comes to the intentional indoctrination of children towards unlawful activity; and incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would have thought that projects, programs, and activities designed to implant or induce the enlistment of children under the age of 15 years _(being children who are particularly vulnerable this kind of TV programming)_ to participate actively in hostilities in both international and non-international armed conflicts, would be self-evident.  But I guess in a corrupt culture, every little detail in terms of morality must be spelled out.
> 
> This is one of those topics that Arab Palestinians think they are exempt from.  I notice that the Arab Palestinians knowingly ignore _(an unethical decision path)_ the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) on prohibited activities that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel); could not hope to morally understand that Palestinian children's TV shows promoting child martyrdom are just simply wrong.  And once we, as outside observers, understand that they lack the ability to do the right thing, we have to begin to isolate them from the rest of society do they cannot do further harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The coal mine is calling the kettle black.
Click to expand...

Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?

The Arab-Moslem program of exploitation of children and incitement to mass murder / suicide is undeniable.... well.... except for folks like you.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are on a roll. They’re doing everything they can to whip up their minions into a froth. 




*PA calls for murder of Jews in suicide bombings and stabbings to “restore honor”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 8, 2020




The PA is creating an atmosphere of terror and war for the Palestinian street, so that the population will be prepared to use violence and terror against Israel, should the leadership want it. This follows Abbas’ ending all cooperation with Israel.

An endless stream of music videos and fillers calling for murder and violence, and including footage of Palestinian violence and riots are being broadcast on one of the TV stations the PA controls. The following four terror incitement videos are but a few examples among many that were all broadcast on PA TV Live during the last two weeks:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians, in particular the leadership, have the moral capacity to understand that targeting children this way is fundamentally wrong.  The Arab Palestinian that cannot tell the difference the intentional murder of innocents and lawful combat, cannot be expected to make the necessary distinction between good and evil when it comes to the intentional indoctrination of children towards unlawful activity; and incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would have thought that projects, programs, and activities designed to implant or induce the enlistment of children under the age of 15 years _(being children who are particularly vulnerable this kind of TV programming)_ to participate actively in hostilities in both international and non-international armed conflicts, would be self-evident.  But I guess in a corrupt culture, every little detail in terms of morality must be spelled out.
> 
> This is one of those topics that Arab Palestinians think they are exempt from.  I notice that the Arab Palestinians knowingly ignore _(an unethical decision path)_ the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) on prohibited activities that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel); could not hope to morally understand that Palestinian children's TV shows promoting child martyrdom are just simply wrong.  And once we, as outside observers, understand that they lack the ability to do the right thing, we have to begin to isolate them from the rest of society do they cannot do further harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The coal mine is calling the kettle black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> The Arab-Moslem program of exploitation of children and incitement to mass murder / suicide is undeniable.... well.... except for folks like you.
Click to expand...

I don't have any faith in Palestine's appointed "leadership." I think the lot of them should be shipped off to a nursing home.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians, in particular the leadership, have the moral capacity to understand that targeting children this way is fundamentally wrong.  The Arab Palestinian that cannot tell the difference the intentional murder of innocents and lawful combat, cannot be expected to make the necessary distinction between good and evil when it comes to the intentional indoctrination of children towards unlawful activity; and incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would have thought that projects, programs, and activities designed to implant or induce the enlistment of children under the age of 15 years _(being children who are particularly vulnerable this kind of TV programming)_ to participate actively in hostilities in both international and non-international armed conflicts, would be self-evident.  But I guess in a corrupt culture, every little detail in terms of morality must be spelled out.
> 
> This is one of those topics that Arab Palestinians think they are exempt from.  I notice that the Arab Palestinians knowingly ignore _(an unethical decision path)_ the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) on prohibited activities that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel); could not hope to morally understand that Palestinian children's TV shows promoting child martyrdom are just simply wrong.  And once we, as outside observers, understand that they lack the ability to do the right thing, we have to begin to isolate them from the rest of society do they cannot do further harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The coal mine is calling the kettle black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> The Arab-Moslem program of exploitation of children and incitement to mass murder / suicide is undeniable.... well.... except for folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have any faith in Palestine's appointed "leadership." I think the lot of them should be shipped off to a nursing home.
Click to expand...


The palestine that was Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate that became Israel, or the palestine that was a fictional Roman name for ancient Israel?


----------



## MartyNYC

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians, in particular the leadership, have the moral capacity to understand that targeting children this way is fundamentally wrong.  The Arab Palestinian that cannot tell the difference the intentional murder of innocents and lawful combat, cannot be expected to make the necessary distinction between good and evil when it comes to the intentional indoctrination of children towards unlawful activity; and incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA TV children’s host promises end of Israel and glorifies terrorist “heroes”*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 7, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would have thought that projects, programs, and activities designed to implant or induce the enlistment of children under the age of 15 years _(being children who are particularly vulnerable this kind of TV programming)_ to participate actively in hostilities in both international and non-international armed conflicts, would be self-evident.  But I guess in a corrupt culture, every little detail in terms of morality must be spelled out.
> 
> This is one of those topics that Arab Palestinians think they are exempt from.  I notice that the Arab Palestinians knowingly ignore _(an unethical decision path)_ the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) on prohibited activities that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel); could not hope to morally understand that Palestinian children's TV shows promoting child martyrdom are just simply wrong.  And once we, as outside observers, understand that they lack the ability to do the right thing, we have to begin to isolate them from the rest of society do they cannot do further harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The coal mine is calling the kettle black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?
> 
> The Arab-Moslem program of exploitation of children and incitement to mass murder / suicide is undeniable.... well.... except for folks like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have any faith in Palestine's appointed "leadership." I think the lot of them should be shipped off to a nursing home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestine that was Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate that became Israel, or the palestine that was a fictional Roman name for ancient Israel?
Click to expand...


Palestine: Fictional Roman name for Jews‘ homeland; Britain’s fictional name for Jews’ homeland...


----------



## Hollie

Send in the clowns. 



*Child in Fatah parade holds poster of Abu Jihad, terrorist responsible for 125 murders*

Official Fatah Facebook page  | Jan 4, 2017
Images and text posted on the official Fatah Facebook page

*Posted text:* “The Fatah Movement organized a demonstration in the city of Tubas on the 52nd anniversary of the Launch (_Intilaqa_) of the Palestinian revolution”









The image shows a boy carrying a poster of terrorist Khalil Al-Wazir “Abu Jihad,” responsible for the deaths of 125.

*Intilaqa *_- "the Launch" refers to the beginning of Fatah on Jan. 1, 1965, when it carried out its first terror attack against Israel, attempting to blow up Israel's National Water Carrier.

*Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir)* was a founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. He headed the PLO terror organization's military wing and also planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks in the 1960’s - 1980’s. These attacks, which killed a total of 125 Israelis, included the most lethal in Israeli history - the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children._


----------



## Hollie

If you're ready for a bracing dose of Islamo-bluster, Islamic terrorists in Gaza, (Hamas), fronting for their masters in Tehran are ramping up the gee-had speak. 














						Hamas Warns Israel Will Have 'Hell to Pay' if Annexation Proceeds - JOL
					

Hamas has warned Israel against plans to extend sovereignty over areas in the West Bank, including the strategic Jordan Valley. Hamas’s Jerusalem Affairs Office said in a statement on Sunday that “Jerusalem will remain a Palestinian, Arab, and Islamic city and the eternal capital of the...




					www.jerusalemonline.com
				









Hamas has warned Israel against plans to extend sovereignty over areas in the West Bank, including the strategic Jordan Valley.


Hamas’s Jerusalem Affairs Office said in a statement on Sunday that “Jerusalem will remain a Palestinian, Arab, and Islamic city and the eternal capital of the Palestinian state, and all powers on this planet will not be able to change its identity, address, and history”.


----------



## Hollie

While there is more than the usual volume of islamo-bluster being belched out by the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank, both groups realize that their silly slogans serve only as a desperate plea for credibility where none exists now. 

The Islamic terrorists are risking another ugly beatdown if they poke Israel too hard. 




*‘Raise a gun’: Calls for violence against Israel by Hamas in light of Trump plan*
June 8, 2020









						'Raise a gun': Calls for violence against Israel by Hamas in light of Trump plan | World Israel News
					

Palestinians hold a protest march in Ramallah against the Trump peace plan as the Hamas terror group leader calls for Palestinians to wage war on Israel.




					worldisraelnews.com
				








Palestinians in Ramallah protest against the Trump peace plan. Boy holds a sign with pictures of PLO leader Yasser Arafat and Hamas terror group founder Ahmed Yassin, June 8, 2020. (Twitter/Fatah)


_*Palestinians hold a protest march in Ramallah against the Trump peace plan as the Hamas terror group leader calls for Palestinians to wage war on Israel.*

By Paul Shindman, World Israel News_

The leader of the Hamas terror group in Gaza praised his rival, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, for cutting off ties with Israel and called for a new armed uprising against the Jewish state.


----------



## Hollie

*Fatah branch in Bethlehem glorifies “the Red Prince,” terrorist who planned the Munich Olympics Massacre*

Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, Facebook  | Jan 31, 2018




Image and text posted on the Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Bethlehem Branch

*Posted text:*
“The Red Prince, the man who defeated the Mossad (Israeli Secret Intelligence Service)
Martyr (_Shahid_) Commander
Ali Hassan Salameh Abu Hassan (i.e., commander of the Black September terror organization)”


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists seem to be doing all they can to whip their Death Cult minions into a gee-had froth.



*PA incites terror: “This great people fights with daggers, knives and cannon shells”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 9, 2020
*

*

*PA: “Allah is stronger and greater than the Children of Zion”*
*PA: By Allah, I will redeem Jerusalem with my children*
The PA is actively inciting the Palestinian street to violence and terror against Israel in numerous ways. One method is by broadcasting a constant stream of music videos and fillers that demonize Israel, encourage violence, and justify terror. Israel and the Jews are said to be threatening Islam, its holy sites, and Palestinian and Muslim “honor.”

*“This great people fights with daggers, knives and cannon shells”*

One song broadcast on the PA-controlled PA TV Live describes the Palestinians as “the great people” that “fights with daggers and rocks, with knives and cannon shells” against “Allah’s enemy”:


^^^They forgot to include balloons.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has been documenting a very disturbing trend of official Palestinian TV increasing the number of music videos it shows that directly call for attacking Jews in Israel.

Significantly, they are often referring to “restoring honor,” which justifies murder. They are showing videos and photos of stabbing attacks and of suicide bombers. And this is all in the past couple of weeks.

Here’s one:

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority TV calling for terror attacks, suicide bombings
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

So, the Pals are proposing a demilitarized Islamic terrorist "state" as there is some desperation setting in with the Israeli plan to annex a portion of the Jordan Valley. 

There is no indication that the mini-caliphate run by Hamas will agree to that and certainly no indication Hamas will give up their weapons. 












						PA proposes demilitarised state as counterproposal to Trump plan
					

Palestinians send mediators’ response to the US plan, which endorses Israel annexing parts of the occupied West Bank.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




The Palestinian Authority (PA) says it has sent international mediators a counterproposal to United States President Donald Trump's Middle East plan, proposing the establishment of a demilitarised and sovereign Palestinian state in the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian public workers go unpaid as PA hit by ‘economic earthquake’
					

GAZA: The embattled Palestinian Authority (PA) has been forced to hold off payment of May wages for around 155,000 public employees due to an “economic earthquake” that has hit the country’s finances. Israel’s suspension of tax revenue transfers coupled with spending on the coronavirus disease...




					www.arabnews.com
				




GAZA: The embattled Palestinian Authority (PA) has been forced to hold off payment of May wages for around 155,000 public employees due to an “economic earthquake” that has hit the country’s finances. 



In the alternate reality of Arab-Moslem'dom, silly slogans such as ''economic earthquake” become a substitute for "gee-had requires sacrifice"








						Abbas rejects all tax revenues from Israel over terror payment deduction
					

Dramatic move means PA is giving up $222 million every month, up to a third of its budget, putting it in danger of collapse




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

Despite Palestine rejecting 1st shipment, UAE to fly to Israel again with Palestinian aid
					

Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways is to operate a rare, second flight to Israel on Tuesday carrying medical aid to be delivered to the Palestinians, Reuters reported an airline spokeswoman as saying.    The ...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




"Despite Palestine rejecting 1st shipment, UAE to fly to Israel again with Palestinian aid.  Abu Dhabi’s Etihad Airways is to operate a rare, second flight to Israel on Tuesday carrying medical aid to be delivered to the Palestinians, _Reuters_ reported an airline spokeswoman as saying. "


There's a motive, obviously.


"Israel does not have diplomatic relations with the UAE or any of the other five Gulf Arab countries, and there are no commercial flights between them. However, shared concerns over Iran’s influence in the region have led to a discrete thaw in ties between Israel and the Arab Gulf in recent years.''


----------



## Sixties Fan

First of all, they try to equate the killing of George Floyd with the (admittedly horrible) killing of Eyad al-Halaq. That already waters down any sympathy they might have for George Floyd.

They chant “Black Lives Matter. Palestinian Lives Matter.” 

Listen to the interviews. Every Palestinian says that they know about oppression more than black Americans do. 

There is no empathy. Instead, there is a game of “we are more oppressed so we are qualified to talk about police brutality.”

(full article online)









						This is what Palestinians hijacking George Floyd look like
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,


EXCERPT • Hollie said:


> The Palestinian Authority (PA) says it has sent international mediators a counterproposal to the United States President Donald Trump's Middle East plan, proposing the establishment of a demilitarised and sovereign Palestinian state in the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

That is an unenforceable counterproposal.  Terrorist organizations don't follow agreements or laws.  Just look at the Gaza Strip.  





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

How can Hamas and its supporters around the world continue to complain about poverty and misery in the Gaza Strip when new shopping malls and supermarkets filled with clothes, and various types of luxury goods are being opened there every few weeks? Pictured: A newly-opened shopping mall in Gaza City on February 22, 2017. (Photo credit should read Mohammed Abed/AFP via Getty Images)


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bad Timing: Armed Terrorist Caught Breaking into Settlement – During Counter-Terrorist Training Drill
					

The town's counter-terrorist unit was in the middle of a training exercise when the armed terrorist tried to breach the fence.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian leadership directed its security forces, the Muhabarat, to hide documents in at least two cities, according to Channel 12.

The last time such a directive was given was in September 2000, the beginning of the Second Intifada, a violent Palestinian uprising that lasted from 2000 until 2005.

Palestinian sources say the move is preparation by the P.A. for a deterioration in the security situation following the application of Israeli law in Judea and Samaria and the Jordan Valley under the aegis of the U.S. “Peace to Prosperity” plan.

(full article online)









						Report: PA Hiding Sensitive Documents in Case of Outbreak of Violence
					

The Palestinian Authority leadership is said to have directed its security forces to hide documents in at least two cities in anticipation of unrest over Israel’s looming sovereignty move.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## MartyNYC

Who are the palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems are so cute when they're playing the eternally aggrieved martyrs.












						Palestine rejects UAE aid sent via Israeli airport
					

For second time, Palestinian Authority rejects to receive aid shipment coming from UAE - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				





The Palestinian Authority on Wednesday rejected for the second time to receive an aid shipment coming from the United Arab Emirates (UAE), according to an Israeli television.

This came a day after the arrival of the Emirati plane at Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv, according to Kan broadcaster.

Previously, on May 21, the Palestinian government had refused to receive medical aid carried by a UAE plane that landed at the Ben Gurion Airport.

The Palestinian government attributed its rejection of the aid to lack of coordination with the Emirati authorities.


----------



## Hollie

Building Death Cultists, one psychopath at a time. 




*Fatah camp for youth named after murderer*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 10, 2020

Abbas’ Fatah named a military camp for high school boys after a murderer of two Israelis – terrorist Omar Abu Laila:
*“The Martyr Omar Abu Laila Camp”*







This is another tragic illustration of the PA and Fatah’s role modeling to youth. The camp for high school boys, which was held earlier this year, was named after the 19-year-old terrorist murderer Omar Abu Laila who killed 2 Israelis, and the session was named after another 19-year-old Palestinian who was killed when he participated in violent clashes with the Israeli army. These two 19-year-olds serve the PA and Fatah in emphasizing to the young boys at the camp that a terrorist murderer is their hero, and that it is heroic to die for “Palestine”:


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems are getting especially desperate. They are ramping up their efforts to foment hate and to rouse the rabble towards attacking Israelis. 



*Is PA TV using former Palestinian UN Youth Ambassador to glorify murderers?*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 11, 2020
*

*

*Music video on PA TV Live includes photos of terrorists, among them Dalal Mughrabi who led murder of 37 Israelis, among them 12 children*
Since Muhammad Assaf won the song contest _Arab Idol_ in 2013, he has become a Palestinian and Arab pop star celebrity, especially for youth. So much so, that the UN appointed him UNRWA Regional Youth Ambassador from 2013 - 2017.

In 2016, Muhammad Assaf produced a music video of the song “My Blood is Palestinian,” which blends footage of him performing it live with footage of Palestinian cultural activities such as dancing, along with scenes of riots and rock throwing.
Now PA TV Live has broadcast the same music video, but with additional images blended in that include terrorists like Dalal Mughrabi, who together with others murdered 37 Israeli civilians, among them 12 children, in a bus hijacking; Salah Khalaf, head of the terror organization Black September, who planned the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics; and the organization’s commander of operations Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar:


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

Arabs laugh out loud: When were there any palestinians?! Professor Azmi Bishara: There Is No "Palestinian Nation", Never Was !


----------



## Hollie




----------



## MartyNYC

“Palestinian” official lets it slip out that half of “palestinians” are Egyptian, the other half are Saudis!

Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip, and Says: 'Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis'


----------



## Sixties Fan

How can Hamas and its supporters around the world continue to complain about poverty and misery when new shopping malls and supermarkets filled with clothes, and various types of luxury goods are being opened every few weeks in the Gaza Strip?


These images are also an embarrassment to anti-Israel propagandists seeking to portray a completely different reality of life in the Gaza Strip as part of their campaign to delegitimize Israel and demonize Jews by holding them fully responsible for the "suffering" of Palestinians.


Why are foreign correspondents and Palestinian journalists covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict dumping photographic documentation of these sunny, positive developments in the Gaza Strip into the dustbin? Is it because such images do not fit their anti-Israel narrative and agenda?

(full article online)









						The Gaza They Do Not Want You to See
					

How can Hamas and its supporters around the world continue to complain about poverty and misery when new shopping malls and supermarkets filled with clothes, and various types of luxury goods are being opened every few weeks in the Gaza Strip? These




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh: We Are Reconsidering Our 1993 Recognition Of Israel; We Will Continue To Pay Salaries To Families Of Prisoners And 'Martyrs'
					

Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh said in a June 8, 2020 interview on Palestine TV that because the Palestinian Authority remained steadfast when it came to paying salar




					www.memri.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

*BLUF:*  I think Palestinian PM Shtayyeh is reshaping the dialog a little bit.



Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh: We Are Reconsidering Our 1993 Recognition Of Israel; We Will Continue To Pay Salaries To Families Of Prisoners And 'Martyrs'
> 
> 
> Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh said in a June 8, 2020 interview on Palestine TV that because the Palestinian Authority remained steadfast when it came to paying salar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org


*(COMMENT)*

I have not heard of a shift in policy.  I've not seen Israel backtrack on the issue of _making to stop the payments Hostile Arab Palestinian payment.  PA's commitment to paying these salaries and he added that recognition of Israel by the PLO is currently being discussed by the PLO's judicial committees. _





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MartyNYC

Richest “palestinian“ family is named Masri...Masri means “Egyptian” in Arabic. How come they’re not named Palestini?


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  I think Palestinian PM Shtayyeh is reshaping the dialog a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh: We Are Reconsidering Our 1993 Recognition Of Israel; We Will Continue To Pay Salaries To Families Of Prisoners And 'Martyrs'
> 
> 
> Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh said in a June 8, 2020 interview on Palestine TV that because the Palestinian Authority remained steadfast when it came to paying salar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have not heard of a shift in policy.  I've not seen Israel backtrack on the issue of _making to stop the payments Hostile Arab Palestinian payment.  PA's commitment to paying these salaries and he added that recognition of Israel by the PLO is currently being discussed by the PLO's judicial committees. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Aren't You amazed by the irony of such declarations?

It's like they themselves make sure to absolve Israel of all the troubles and mistakes once brought upon Israelis by all their leftist governments.

It's like Arabs themselves prepare everything for a full sovereignty move.
For the burden of responsibility that comes with running a state - is their worst fear,
preferring the victim role to assuming responsibility, almost begging without saying so openly.

I'm amazed.


----------



## Hollie

There is a good read in _jpost_ that wraps a neat ribbon around the failure of the Pal-Arabs to make any headway toward a functioning society. It’s largely due to islamic ideology and the insensate hatred for Jews that is a core element of Islamic ideology. But another element is how Arab nations have allowed themselves to be the forever, aggrieved victims of Israel and the _Great Satan_™️. Israel is a tiny nation surrounded politically, physically and ideologically by Islamic nations, many of them barely third world, and those larger nations are the victims? Arab-Moslem intransigence and their resulting failures are not the fault of Israel. 










						The Palestinian Authority's intransigence in the face of annexation
					

The Palestinians’ insistence at choosing to ignore the last 53 years of reality is the crux of the problem that the region faces.




					m.jpost.com
				




The Palestinians’ insistence at choosing to ignore the last 53 years of reality is the crux of the problem that the region faces.


Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh was firm in his resolve on Tuesday. Speaking to members of the Foreign Press Association in Ramallah in an effort to disseminate the Palestinian point of view to the world on Israel’s upcoming plans to declare sovereignty over undisclosed areas of the West Bank, he announced that “annexation is the erosion of a future Palestinian state,” and called Israeli annexation “an existential threat to our future.”

It’s the same, predictable message that the Palestinians have been parroting since the concept of a unilateral annexation by Israel emerged with the publication of the Trump peace plan in January, which followed years of protracted stasis between Israel and the PA surrounding a negotiated settlement to the disputed territories that have been in Israel’s hands since 1967


----------



## Hollie

The obvious end result of Pal-Arab Death Cult incitement and glorification of killing is “Muhammads” sneaking into the bedrooms of 13 year girls and stabbing them to death. It’s the pinnacle of Pal-Arab’ism.











						Terror victim's family sues Palestinian Authority for NIS 100 million
					

The NIS 100 million is the same amount the PA is paying the terrorist's family, in the form of monthly payments, for having carried out the attacks.




					www.jpost.com
				





The family of 13-year-old Hallel Ariel, killed in a violent terror attack in 2016, is suing the Palestinian Authority for NIS 100 million.

Since the incident of the terror attack, Hallel's parents, Rina and Amichai Ariel, have been involved in inter-state legal battles against the Palestinian Authority (PA). The NIS 100 million is the same amount the PA is paying the terrorist's family, in the form of monthly payments, for having carried out the attacks, and is the basis of the Ariel family's legal pursuit. 

Prior to Hallel's murder, the terrorist who carried out the attack, Muhammad Tarayrah, 17 at the time of the incident, shared multiple posts on Facebook in which he praised terror attacks and stated his intentions to be a martyr. Carrying out his intentions, the terrorist infiltrated the West Bank Settlement of Kiryat Araba, located next to Hebron, snuck into Hallel's bedroom and stabbed her multiple times.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are hoping to rely on Arab money to bail them out of their latest financial disaster. I’m betting this latest plea is going to largely fall on deaf Arab ears. While the Pals have been critical of Arab nations for aligning with Israel, they have made the mistake of bending and scraping before the Shia heretics. 






__





						Palestine asks Arab states to ensure 100-mln-USD monthly loan - Xinhua | English.news.cn
					





					www.xinhuanet.com
				





RAMALLAH, June 13 (Xinhua) -- A senior Palestinian official announced on Saturday that the Palestinian Authority (PA) had asked the Arab states to ensure a 100-million-U.S. dollar monthly loan to help Palestine overcome its financial crisis.

Saeb Erekat, Secretary of Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Executive Committee, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the PA request to get a loan which was under previous Arab League decisions to ensure a secure Arab financial network.

"It's necessary to provide an urgent Arab financial aid to back the Palestinian Authority treasury to overcome the current difficult situation amid the current challenges," said Erekat.

Earlier this month, the PA decided not to receive money that comes from the tax revenue dues that Israel collects on behalf of the PA from Palestinian trade at crossing points under Israel's control.


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> The Pals are hoping to rely on Arab money to bail them out of their latest financial disaster. I’m betting this latest plea is going to largely fall on deaf Arab ears. While the Pals have been critical of Arab nations for aligning with Israel, they have made the mistake of bending and scraping before the Shia heretics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine asks Arab states to ensure 100-mln-USD monthly loan - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.xinhuanet.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RAMALLAH, June 13 (Xinhua) -- A senior Palestinian official announced on Saturday that the Palestinian Authority (PA) had asked the Arab states to ensure a 100-million-U.S. dollar monthly loan to help Palestine overcome its financial crisis.
> 
> Saeb Erekat, Secretary of Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Executive Committee, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the PA request to get a loan which was under previous Arab League decisions to ensure a secure Arab financial network.
> 
> "It's necessary to provide an urgent Arab financial aid to back the Palestinian Authority treasury to overcome the current difficult situation amid the current challenges," said Erekat.
> 
> Earlier this month, the PA decided not to receive money that comes from the tax revenue dues that Israel collects on behalf of the PA from Palestinian trade at crossing points under Israel's control.



Seriously, if they throw the $100mil to the garbage they benefit more.
Last time I saw, the Qatari ambassador who brought cash suitcases,
had stones thrown at his car on his way out, *literally*.

Didn't I post that video?
​This is interesting:

Eliot Abrams : I can tell you from my own experience, as an American official seeking financial assistance for the PA from Gulf Arab governments, that I was often told “_why should we give them money when their officials will just steal it?”_

United States House of Representatives 2nd Session, 112th - Congress Hearing on Chronic Kleptocracy: Corruption Within the Palestinian Political Establishment​


----------



## Hollie

*CRISIS ALERT!*

Hamas is announcing their hurt feelings over reports that the Iranians were spying on some of the Hamas leadership. 

I would suggest this is a resolvable issue regarding a minor lack of trust and mutual respect between Islamic terrorist franchises of the Sunni vs. Shia syndicates. 

All seriousness aside, why let a crisis go to waste when you have cultists who have been slaughtering each other for 1,400 years over theological differences?












						Hamas outraged after discovering Iran spied on its deputy leader – report
					

TV news: Staffer for Mousa Abu Marzouk found to be an agent for Tehran, who reported his movements and conversations to the regime




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





A crisis has reportedly emerged in relations between Hamas and Iran after the Gaza-based terror group discovered that Tehran had been operating spies to track one of its senior leaders.

According to a Channel 12 news report Thursday, a staffer in Hamas deputy leader Moussa Abu Marzouk’s office was an agent for Iranian intelligence, and reported his movements and conversations during his various trips abroad.

Other agents are believed to have been involved as well, the report said


----------



## Hollie

*Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate*










						Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate
					

SJP branches across the country have been connected to a Hamas front group operating in the US. What about Stanford’s?  Anti-Semitism is on the rise at college campuses. From January to June 2016, 287 anti-Semitic incidents occurred on 64 campuses, an increase of 45% since the year before...




					stanfordreview.org
				








_SJP branches across the country have been connected to a Hamas front group operating in the US. What about Stanford’s?_


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Arabs are interfering in the affairs of the “Country of Pal’istan” (said country, as we know, was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne). 









						PA alarmed by UAE intervention in Palestinian internal affairs
					

In the past few years, PA officials have privately accused the UAE of meddling in Palestinian internal affairs and acting contrary to Arab League resolutions.




					m.jpost.com
				




In the past few years, PA officials have privately accused the UAE of meddling in Palestinian internal affairs and acting contrary to Arab League resolutions.

Unlike many Palestinian parties, the Palestinian Authority has avoided commenting on an article published last week by United Arab Emirates Ambassador to the US, Yousef Al-Otaibi, in _Yediot Aharonot._

The PA’s silence, however, does not mean that it condones the ambassador’s statements. In the past few years, PA officials have privately accused the UAE of meddling in Palestinian internal affairs and acting contrary to Arab League resolutions by advancing normalization with Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,

BLUF:   The UAE public speaking strategies are sometimes hard to make-out.



Hollie said:


> Oh, my. Arabs are interfering in the affairs of the “Country of Pal’istan” (said country, as we know, was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA alarmed by UAE intervention in Palestinian internal affairs
> 
> 
> In the past few years, PA officials have privately accused the UAE of meddling in Palestinian internal affairs and acting contrary to Arab League resolutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past few years, PA officials have privately accused the UAE of meddling in Palestinian internal affairs and acting contrary to Arab League resolutions.
> 
> Unlike many Palestinian parties, the Palestinian Authority has avoided commenting on an article published last week by United Arab Emirates Ambassador to the US, Yousef Al-Otaibi, in _Yediot Aharonot._
> 
> The PA’s silence, however, does not mean that it condones the ambassador’s statements. In the past few years, PA officials have privately accused the UAE of meddling in Palestinian internal affairs and acting contrary to Arab League resolutions by advancing normalization with Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Not so unlike a few others other Arab League Nations - the UAE sprinkles the bitter almonds with sugar before serving it.
But the Arab Palestinians are beginning to understand the real-world situation.   






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

It’s as though the Pals believe the calendar shows the year 720 as opposed to 2020. They don’t understand the Islamist colonial settler project is long gone. It was an empire of conquest and subjugation that eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.


*Israel is foreign ruler to be defeated by Muslim conqueror - in PA music video*

Itamar Marcus  | Jun 14, 2020
The PA is yet again pretending it is the Jewish people. A music video broadcast on PA TV misrepresents 2000 years of Jewish struggle against foreign rulers who occupied the land of Israel which ended with the State of Israel being reestablished last century, as 2000 years of Palestinian struggle against foreign rulers. Israel is presented as the last “foreign ruler,” and will be defeated by Muslim forces, represented by Muslim conqueror Saladin. Jewish presence in the land of Israel is presented as the last in the chain of foreign rulers who will be removed when the land is liberated by Muslims.








The music video shows a woman dressed in white who represents "the Palestinians" experiencing the history of the land - replacing the Jewish people's actual history. The story begins in a period predating the Roman conquest of Judea and the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. The woman runs away from four foreign invaders: an ancient Roman soldier, a Crusader, a British soldier, and finally a Jew.
In the final scene, the woman stops fleeing when a man on a horse - the "new" Muslim conqueror Saladin who defeated the Crusaders - extends his hand and helps her to the top of the hill. He represents the coming Muslim savior who will "liberate Palestine" from Jewish-Israeli rule.


----------



## MartyNYC

Richest “palestinian” is reportedly a man named Munib al-Masri, who likens himself to “Mr. Palestine.” Except, al-Masri means “the Egyptian“ in Arabic. How come he isn’t named al-Palestini?









						Munib al-Masri: The journey one of the wealthiest Palestinians
					

Munib al-Masri, 82, is the wealthiest Palestinian in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a remarkable hidden camera video where an Israeli reporter went to ordinary Palestinians in the West Bank and asked them how they felt about the Palestinian Authority and Israel.

They were generally very frank in admitting that Mahmoud Abbas has not helped them at all, and that his attempts to get them to protest (for example, the Deal of the Century) were failures. 

One said that if elections were held between Bibi and Mahmoud Abbas, Bibi would win.

(full article online)









						Palestinians hate Mahmoud Abbas, would love to have Israeli IDs (video)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## MartyNYC

Ironic that “palestinians,” a militant nationalist group, get their name from “palestine,” Britain’s name for the British Mandate, which led to Israeli statehood. They literally identify by the name of a European imperialist colonialist entity and even defer to it for borders. Not very authentic


----------



## Hollie

It seems that someone posing as something the PA class a foreign minister is hoping to rouse the rabble with some frantic appeals to Islamism.


*PA foreign minister fans the flames of “religious war”*









						PA foreign minister fans the flames of “religious war” | PMW Analysis
					

Al-Malki: Israel will “destroy Al-Aqsa and build alleged Temple” after annexation




					palwatch.org
				



Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 15, 2020

*Al-Malki: Israel will “destroy Al-Aqsa and build alleged Temple” after annexation*
PA Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Malki has twice recently fanned the flames of religious war among Palestinians and the entire Muslim world. The top PA official continues to demonize Israel with the libel that Israel plans “to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque and build the alleged Temple.” Al-Malki made one of his statements in a video conference of Arab officials at the level of foreign ministers regarding Israel's presumed future annexation - i.e., applying Israeli law to the Jordan Valley and the Jewish cities and towns in the West Bank:


> *PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki:* “[Israel's annexation] *will place the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque… under full Israeli control,*in order to execute their plan to promote their false narrative *in order to destroy it and build their alleged Temple.* This will turn the conflict from a political conflict into a religious conflict whose end will be bad and bitter, will undermine the stability, and will destroy the security and peace in the region and the world.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 11, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

Islamism. The real apartheid.










						The Middle East’s real apartheid
					

The Jewish State's supporters find it difficult to agree on the best response to Israel Apartheid Week.




					www.jpost.com
				




Indeed, it was the Palestinian terror organization that invented the apartheid canard in the mid-1960s, years before Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

This charge, of course, is not only completely false but the inverse of the truth. If apartheid is indeed a crime against humanity, Israel actually is the only apartheid-free state in the Middle East – a state whose Arab population enjoys full equality before the law and more prerogatives than most ethnic minorities in the free world, from the designation of Arabic as an official language to the recognition of non-Jewish religious holidays as legal days of rest.

By contrast, apartheid has been an integral part of the Middle East for over a millennium, and its Arab and Muslim nations continue to legally, politically and socially enforce this discriminatory practice against their hapless minorities.


----------



## Hollie

The Pal Death Cult rolls on,













						PA TV re-releases pop video glorifying Palestinian terrorists
					

The new version of the video includes images of terrorists Dalal Mughrabi, Salah Khalef and Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar.




					www.jpost.com
				





*The new version of the video includes images of terrorists Dalal Mughrabi, Salah Khalef and Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar.*


By DONNA RACHEL EDMUNDS 
JUNE 15, 2020 22:56






Palestinian singer Mohammed Assaf
(photo credit: Reuters)
Advertisement
Palestinian Authority TV has used a music video by a former UNWRA Regional Youth Ambassador to laud terrorists and encourage violence among the Palestinian population.

The video is for a song titled _My Blood is Palestinian_ by Muhammad Assaf, winner of the 2013 Arab Idol song contest. Following his win, Assaf went on to become a Palestinian Arab pop star with a strong following among the youth, leading to his appointment as UNWRA Regional Youth Ambassador between 2013 and 2017.


The song includes the lyrics: "I’ve remained as I was. I’ve remained loyal to my religion. On my land you will find me. I will sacrifice myself for my family. My blood is Palestinian, Palestinian." A 2016 video for the song cut images of Assaf performing the song live with footage of Palestinians dancing, and scenes of flag waving, rioting and rock throwing.


----------



## Hollie

Al declares the gee-had is on. Time to round up the disposable Arab-Moslem youngsters and push them to the front of the line. 


*PA foreign minister fans the flames of “religious war”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 15, 2020

*Al-Malki: Israel will “destroy Al-Aqsa and build alleged Temple” after annexation*
PA Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Malki has twice recently fanned the flames of religious war among Palestinians and the entire Muslim world. The top PA official continues to demonize Israel with the libel that Israel plans “to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque and build the alleged Temple.” Al-Malki made one of his statements in a video conference of Arab officials at the level of foreign ministers regarding Israel's presumed future annexation - i.e., applying Israeli law to the Jordan Valley and the Jewish cities and towns in the West Bank:


> *PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki:* “[Israel's annexation] *will place the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque… under full Israeli control,* in order to execute their plan to promote their false narrative *in order to destroy it and build their alleged Temple.* This will turn the conflict from a political conflict into a religious conflict whose end will be bad and bitter, will undermine the stability, and will destroy the security and peace in the region and the world.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 11, 2020]














> *PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki:* “This step [Israel's annexation of the Jordan Valley] if it is carried out… will place the Al-Aqsa Mosque – the first direction of prayer, the second mosque [in the world], and the third [most] holy sanctuary – under Israeli control, before *it is destroyed and the alleged Temple is built in its place.* This step, if it is carried out, will turn this conflict from a political one into an endless religious conflict.”
> [Official PA TV News, May 1, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

While I think it's long past due that the Great Satan has taken steps to bring this member of the Tamimi Islamic terrorist syndicate to infidel justice, let's hope President Trump gets serious about this. 











						US mulls withholding aid to Jordan to force extradition of Palestinian terrorist
					

Family of Malki Roth, Israeli-US girl killed in 2001 Sbarro bombing, hails 'encouraging' news as Trump administration vows to 'explore all options' to bring Ahlam Tamimi to justice




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Family of Malki Roth, Israeli-US girl killed in 2001 Sbarro bombing, hails ‘encouraging’ news as Trump administration vows to ‘explore all options’ to bring Ahlam Tamimi to justice.

The United States is considering withholding aid from one of its closest Arab partners, Jordan, in a bid to secure the extradition of a woman convicted in Israel of a 2001 terror bombing that killed 15 people, including two American citizens.

The family of one of those US citizens, 15-year-old Malki Roth, has been leading a campaign to extradite the terrorist to the US, after Israel imprisoned and then freed her.

The Trump administration says it’s weighing “all options” to press Jordan to extradite Ahlam Aref Ahmad Al-Tamimi, who is wanted by the US on a charge of conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction against American nationals. The charge was filed under seal in 2013 and announced by the Justice Department four years later.


----------



## Hollie

It's really comical to read that a EU official is somehow shocked to discover that Pal terrorists are using EU welfare dollars to finance Islamic terrorism. 

The EU spokes-knucklehead Olivér Várhelyi is doing some posturing and blustering but who is he preaching to?





EU official urges probe ensuring no funds benefit Palestinian terror backers









						EU official urges probe ensuring no funds benefit Palestinian terror backers
					

Official in charge of relations with EU's neighbors tells bloc's envoys to Israel, Palestinian Authority 'to look deep' because 'if there is any concern, we will act immediately'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





A senior European Union official on Tuesday said he asked the bloc’s representatives in Israel and the Palestinian territories to investigate whether any EU funds are benefiting terrorists or their supporters.

“We have received a number of requests from the Israeli authorities in that regard, also from the public in Israel. I took immediate action, I asked both the heads of delegations in Tel Aviv but also in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, to look into the matter,” Olivér Várhelyi, the EU Commissioner for Neighbourhood and Enlargement, said during a meeting of the European Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee.


----------



## Hollie

There is some Islamic terrorist behavior modification taking place after rockets were fired from the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan.




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/06/16/idf-strikes-hamas-targets-in-gaza-following-rocket-fire-on-southern-israel/
		


“_Israeli aircraft and tanks shell sites used by the terrorist group in southern Gaza, including underground facilities. This aggression comes after Israel approved a $50 million Qatari cash infusion into the coastal enclave, set to be delivered this week_.”



It seems the Islamic terrorists were spending their welfare money on weapons and ammunition in anticipation of a big welfare payday.


----------



## Hollie

More Islamo-bluster from the Hamas Islamic terrorist franchise. As usual, they’re using a form of extortion - threatening Islamic terrorist attacks -unless their demands for welfare money are met.










						Hamas said threatening to resume Gaza protests unless Qatari funds arrive
					

Gulf state's envoy to the Gaza Strip had previously been expected to arrive this week; Palestinian sources tell Kan news terror group's units could attack border fence




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





If Israel does not allow Qatari aid money to reach the Gaza Strip, Hamas could soon act to end the calm which has prevailed in recent months and renew nightly operations as soon as next Friday, Palestinian sources told Kan news on Saturday.

The source further told Kan that if the condition was not met in two weeks, Hamas would start sending units to “penetrate” the Gaza border fence and potentially enter Israeli territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,

I agree*!

BLUF:  *Allowing Qatari aid money to reach the Gaza Strip is nothing more than a front for funneling money to the illegal groups.



Hollie said:


> As usual, they’re using a form of extortion - threatening Islamic terrorist attacks -unless their demands for welfare money are met.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure that the threat is actually credible.  HAMAS must know _(by now)_ that Israel is following the International protocols.

Allowing Qatari funding to reach the HAMAS in the Gaza Strip, under the guise of "humanitarian aid" is a very old Arab Palestinian trick.  It was very popular in the late 1990s and the first decade of the 21st Century.

The threat itself constitutes a "criminal act" directed against Israel, intended to create "fear" in the minds of the Israeli general public - and the destabilization of the se3ccurity throughout the Middle East.

HAMAS must be aware that incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance poses a  serious danger to the enjoyment of social and economic development throughout the region.  Why their population tolerates this is beyond me.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

There is a certain amount of comedy gold when watching the shenanigans surrounding both Abbas and the Hamas Islamic terrorist franchise. Its so much like babysitting petulant children.






			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-abbas-comedy-and-ongoing-palestinian-tragedy/
		



If you think you've seen this movie before, you're right.

Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas has declared that he is abrogating all agreements with Israel so many times it's a wonder that he could do so again with a straight face. Indeed, he started making these threats as soon as he succeeded PLO chairman Yasser Arafat and has never really stopped during the course of the 15 years of his four-year term as leader of the PA

The latest occasion for his usual theatrics is the possibility that Israel might extend sovereignty into parts of the West Bank, as envisioned by the Trump administration's "Peace to Prosperity" plan. Abbas didn't merely reject the Trump scheme, as he did several other even more generous Mideast plans in the past. He refused even to negotiate with the Trump administration.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The latest submission by the Palestinian Authority to the International Criminal Court (ICC) is a prime example of how the PA tailors and changes the content of the speeches of its leaders, and its positions in general, depending on the identity and perceived naïveté of the target audience.

In this instance, while speaking in Arabic to the Palestinian audience PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, in his May 19, 2020 speech, declared that as of that day, the PA no longer sees itself obligated by the accords and agreements signed with Israel. In contrast, in the PA submission to the ICC, Abbas’ declaration suddenly became conditional on a future event.

These contradictory claims were, however, merely the tip of the iceberg, with the PA’s submission.

While the PA claims to have attached to its submission a translation of Abbas’ speech, Palestinian Media Watch has found that the document attached is not a transcription of the speech. *Rather it is a falsified version, intentionally edited by the PA to mislead the court.* The falsified document also conveniently omits Abbas’ confession to committing crimes.

(full article online)









						PA intentionally submits falsified document to the International Criminal Court | PMW Analysis
					

Text of Abbas speech submitted by PA to ICC was incomplete; it was missing the section in which he admitted to committing crimes against humanity




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> The latest submission by the Palestinian Authority to the International Criminal Court (ICC) is a prime example of how the PA tailors and changes the content of the speeches of its leaders, and its positions in general, depending on the identity and perceived naïveté of the target audience.
> 
> In this instance, while speaking in Arabic to the Palestinian audience PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, in his May 19, 2020 speech, declared that as of that day, the PA no longer sees itself obligated by the accords and agreements signed with Israel. In contrast, in the PA submission to the ICC, Abbas’ declaration suddenly became conditional on a future event.
> 
> These contradictory claims were, however, merely the tip of the iceberg, with the PA’s submission.
> 
> While the PA claims to have attached to its submission a translation of Abbas’ speech, Palestinian Media Watch has found that the document attached is not a transcription of the speech. *Rather it is a falsified version, intentionally edited by the PA to mislead the court.* The falsified document also conveniently omits Abbas’ confession to committing crimes.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA intentionally submits falsified document to the International Criminal Court | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Text of Abbas speech submitted by PA to ICC was incomplete; it was missing the section in which he admitted to committing crimes against humanity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


Fortunately, president Trump has the wherewithal to acknowledge the ICC as just another useless arm of the useless UN.



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-icc-has-nothing-to-do-with-justice/
		


The International Criminal Court is not a court at all, but a political action agency of the United Nations whose goal is to defame countries it views as enemies.


Last week, US President Donald Trump signed an executive order authorizing sanctions and additional visa restrictions against any individuals who "have directly engaged in any effort by the ICC to investigate, arrest, detain, or prosecute any United States personnel without the consent of the United States" or have attempted to do the same against a US ally.

Once again, we see the interests of the United States and Israel align uniquely – this time because the ICC chooses to function not as an enforcer of international law, but as a political tool of our common enemies.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

*BLUF: * IF true _(I think as a layman)_ such a fraudulent submission to the ICC undermines the integrity of the court, and should be subject, at the very least, to sanctions under the rules of professional conduct outlined in the *International Principles on Conduct for the Legal Profession (IPCLP)*. And the legal team having a hand in the submission should lose accreditation to practice before the court.



Sixties Fan said:


> While the PA claims to have attached to its submission a translation of Abbas’ speech, Palestinian Media Watch has found that the document attached is not a transcription of the speech. *Rather it is a falsified version, intentionally edited by the PA to mislead the court.* The falsified document also conveniently omits Abbas’ confession to committing crimes.


*(COMMENT)*

*IPCLP Rule #2: * "Honesty, integrity and fairness ••• A lawyer shall at all times maintain the highest standards of honesty, integrity and fairness towards the lawyer’s clients, the court, colleagues and all those with whom the lawyer comes into professional contact."

•  “Unconscionable” schemes to deceive or make misrepresentations through the court system.​•  Submission of fraudulent documents​


			
				2.2 Explanatory note for the IPCLP said:
			
		

> ••• Trust in the legal profession requires that every member of the legal profession exemplifies personal integrity, honesty and fairness.  A lawyer shall not knowingly make a false statement of fact or law in the course of representing a client or fail to correct a false statement of material fact or law previously made by the lawyer.


Just my thought...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Whistleblower Exposes Palestinian Authority Corruption
					

PA officials accused of stealing Palestinian aid money - Yoni Ben Menachem




					jcpa.org


----------



## Hollie

With a history of making ill-considered choices and wrong choices, the Pals have chosen to undermine their credibility. Shocking, that.

Rejecting an anti-terrorism clause as a condition for foreign welfare was more than the Islamic terrorist enablers could manage.

Where are those Qatari suitcases full of welfare cash when you need them?












						EU cancels funding to Palestinian NGO that objected to anti-terrorism clause - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
					

The agreement stated that grantees must make certain that members of EU-listed terrorist groups do not benefit from any of the funded programs.




					www.jta.org
				





JERUSALEM (JTA) — The European Union has canceled a joint project and funding for a Palestinian NGO after the NGO objected to the anti-terrorism clause in the funding agreement.

The Badil Resource Center for Palestinian Residency and Refugee Rights refused to sign the agreement for the $2 million project. Under the clause, grantees must make certain that members of EU-listed terrorist groups do not benefit from any of the funded programs.


----------



## Hollie

I know you will find this as shocking as I did. Wuhan coronavirus funding sent to the Pal-Arabs somehow found its way to the various Islamic terrorist franchises. 

Shocking, that. 

Infidel'istan continues to fund Islamic terrorism and the west blithely minimizes the madness. 

It's as though we in the west continue to stumble and fall over our own negligence and then brush ourselves off and continue on as though nothing has happened. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/05/25/watcgdog-millions-earmarked-for-palestinian-corona-aid-funneled-to-terrorist-linked-groups/
		



Millions of dollars earmarked for the Palestinian's coronavirus response have been misappropriated for use by organizations with links to terrorism, a new NGO Monitor report released Sunday claims.

The research watchdog found that several of the groups receiving funds from the World Health Organization and UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs are tied to the People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), which is designated as a terrorist organization by Israel, the EU, the US, and Canada.


----------



## Hollie

Ok. Let's keep the laughter to a minimum.

The Pals want a $100 million loan from the Arab League. I had this naive impression that a loan implied the loan'or had a reasonable expectation that the loan'ee would eventually repay the loan.












						Palestine seeks $100M loan from Arab League
					

'Arab states bear national responsibility to support steadfastness of Palestinian people,' says its envoy to Egypt - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




Palestine's Ambassador to Egypt and permanent representative to the Arab League, Diab al-Louh, said Wednesday that Palestinian authorities formally requested the regional group provide a $100 million loan.

The request was submitted because of the financial crisis brought on by the interruption of clearance revenues with Israel.

"We submitted a request to the Arab Finance Council that payment be made as soon as Palestinian tax revenues are recovered from Israel, however, Palestine has not received a response yet," Voice of Palestine radio quoted al-Louh.


Hey, here's some interesting news. The "country of Pal'istan" had not received a response from the Arab League to a $100 million per month slush welfare fund ''safety net'' for the Pals. That's just, you know, racist or something. Maybe even Islamophobic. 

"_The Palestinian diplomat said his country's request "came after the Arab countries did not respond to the decisions of the successive Arab League sessions regarding providing an Arab safety network with the value of $100 million per month."_


----------



## Hollie

Every mother swells with pride as her daughter natures in young adulthood. There just so much to look forward to like blowing themselves up in a spectacular explosion of fire and shrapnel.











						Palestinian mothers teach their daughters terrorism via song on TV
					

The incident took place as part of a reenactment of the old bus ride from Jerusalem to Amman on official Palestinian Authority TV on June 2.




					www.jpost.com
				





Palestinian mothers reportedly encouraged their daughters to be terrorists, via song, on a Palestinian TV channel, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) wrote in a press release on Thursday.

The incident took place as part of a reenactment of the old bus ride from Jerusalem to Amman on official Palestinian Authority TV on June 2.

The participants were young girls and their mothers, who used the bus ride as an opportunity to teach their daughters about violence and terrorism through singing about it, according to the report by PMW.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With a history of making ill-considered choices and wrong choices, the Pals have chosen to undermine their credibility. Shocking, that.
> 
> Rejecting an anti-terrorism clause as a condition for foreign welfare was more than the Islamic terrorist enablers could manage.
> 
> Where are those Qatari suitcases full of welfare cash when you need them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU cancels funding to Palestinian NGO that objected to anti-terrorism clause - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> 
> The agreement stated that grantees must make certain that members of EU-listed terrorist groups do not benefit from any of the funded programs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jta.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (JTA) — The European Union has canceled a joint project and funding for a Palestinian NGO after the NGO objected to the anti-terrorism clause in the funding agreement.
> 
> The Badil Resource Center for Palestinian Residency and Refugee Rights refused to sign the agreement for the $2 million project. Under the clause, grantees must make certain that members of EU-listed terrorist groups do not benefit from any of the funded programs.





Hollie said:


> Rejecting an anti-terrorism clause as a condition for foreign welfare was more than the Islamic terrorist enablers could manage.


whose opinion of terrorism would they use.


----------



## Hollie

Here's an interesting article describing some changing alliances in the Islamic Middle East. Similar to other articles, this one speaks to various Arab nations seeing their vest interests not strictly tied to other Arab nations in the region.

It really shines the harsh light of reality on the declining interest that Arabs nations place on the forever grievances of the Pals as Arab nations see their interests needing attention elsewhere.









						The Palestinian Issue Is Not the Crux of the Arab-Israeli Conflict
					

Jewish worshippers visiting Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Photo: Reuters/Ammar Awad. In 2020, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and other pro-US …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





In 2020, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and other pro-US Arab countries base their national security policy on issues that substantially transcend the Palestinian issue. These issues include lethal threats posed by Iran’s ayatollahs, the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Turkey’s Erdogan, the spillover of the wars in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, the potential implosion of Arab countries, and more.

In 2020, these countries view Israel’s posture of deterrence as a most valuable asset in the face of the aforementioned lethal threats. They value Israel as a productive resource to diversify their economies and enhance their standard of living.

At the same time, they consider the proposed Palestinian state a potential rogue regime, which could add fuel to the Middle East fire. At the moment, they are expanding their defense and commercial ties with Israel in an unprecedented manner, in defiance of Palestinian protests and irrespective of the paralysis of the Palestinian issue.


----------



## Hollie

No gee-had for the islamo-wannabes.










						Israel intercepts Palestinian boat smuggling weapons to Hamas | World Israel News
					

Israel thwarted another attempt by Hamas terrorists to smuggle weapons into Gaza by sea, saying one of those arrested is a 'senior smuggler.'




					worldisraelnews.com
				




June 18, 2020


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,

*BLUF: * Yeahs, this is an important piece to the puzzle.  Countries tend to make decisions on a "best interest " basis.  And in few cases does a "best interest" coincide with the "armed struggle" and "pro-jihadist and insurgency" principles adopted by the Arab Palestinians.



EXCERPT• Hollie said:


> In 2020, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and other pro-US Arab countries base their national security policy on issues that substantially transcend the Palestinian issue. These issues include lethal threats posed by Iran’s ayatollahs, the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Turkey’s Erdogan, the spillover of the wars in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, the potential implosion of Arab countries, and more.
> 
> In 2020, these countries view Israel’s posture of deterrence as a most valuable asset in the face of the aforementioned lethal threats. They value Israel as a productive resource to diversify their economies and enhance their standard of living.


*(COMMENT)*

The key to Israeli success is in its own development success in more than just statistic composite of life expectancy, education, cultural, economic, and per capita income indicators. The Arab League knows that national security is more than just a summation of its war machine. It includes being more valuable to the success of the regional neighbors. And while the Arab Palestinians can easily say they know this, they cannot easily realistically demonstrate it in the past history of their deeds and national direction.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Islamo-sing along. 

Lovely, lovely folks those Death Cult degenerates


----------



## Hollie

What better place to get life lessons on virgins and paradise than a Gaza Islamic scholar?









						Gaza Islamic Scholar Ahmad Khadoura: Virgins Of Paradise Will Have No Menstruation, Saliva, Mucus, Or Excrement; Each Man Will Be Given The Sexual Strength Of 100 Men
					

Gaza Islamic scholar Ahmad Khadoura said in a video that was uploaded to the YouTube channel of the Gaza-based Ibn Baz A...




					www.memri.org
				




*Gaza Islamic Scholar Ahmad Khadoura: Virgins of Paradise Will Have No Menstruation, Saliva, Mucus, or Excrement; Each Man Will Be Given the Sexual Strength of 100 Men*

Gaza Islamic scholar Ahmad Khadoura said in a video that was uploaded to the YouTube channel of the Gaza-based Ibn Baz Association on May 8, 2020 that Allah created the virgins in Paradise for the believers. He said that each man will be given two wives as he enters Paradise, as well as the sexual strength of one hundred men. He said: “There will be no menstruation, no childbirth, no saliva, no mucus, no urine, and no excrement.” He added: “[They] will be jealous for you and they will sing for you.”


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute when they launch themselves into fits of islamo-rage. J



*Fatah Anti-Deal of Century song: We will trample on it*
*In the video-clip, men with guns sing how they will ‘trample on it, trample on it.’*
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF   









						Fatah Anti-Deal of Century song: We will trample on it
					

In the video-clip, men with guns sing how they will ‘trample on it, trample on it.’




					www.jpost.com
				








A still image from the Fatah song mocking the Deal of the Century

Fatah released a video-clip in which men with guns sing about how they will ‘trample on’ the US "Deal of the Century" and that “if talking will not help we will erase it with cannons,” Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) reported on Wednesday.


----------



## Hollie

Anyone with their eyes open can see that funding Islamic terrorism will allow Islamic terrorists to further acts of murder and mayhem.











						UK investigates PwC for covering for Palestinian terror group
					

The decision came after UK Lawyers for Israel complained that PwC firms audited two Palestinian NGOs linked to the PFLP, breaching the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises.




					www.jpost.com
				




The United Kingdom will investigate ties between international accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and the terrorist group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), the government announced Tuesday.

The decision came after UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) complained that PwC firms audited two Palestinian NGOs linked to the PFLP, breaching the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises.

The UK National Contact Point (NCP) for those guidelines, part of the Department for International Trade, determined that “the issues raised in the complaint… merit further examination.”


----------



## Hollie

Iran, obviously, has its own interests in gaining a presence in Gaza as a means to expand its territorial influence. Promoting attacks by Hamas against Israel is one means to achieve that end. The result will be dead Sunni islamists but that's a cost of doing gee-had.








__





						IRGC Quds Force Chief Vows Support for Palestine - Politics news - Tasnim News Agency
					

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Commander of the Quds Force of Iran’s Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) assured the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement that he will proceed with the strategy of his predecessor, Lt. General Qassem Soleimani, to support the Palestinian resistance forces.




					www.tasnimnews.com
				




TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Commander of the Quds Force of Iran’s Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) assured the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement that he will proceed with the strategy of his predecessor, Lt. General Qassem Soleimani, to support the Palestinian resistance forces.


----------



## Hollie

I would hope that news of the ''EU follow the money'' statement will be a meaningful examination of where their welfare dollars are going. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/06/03/report-by-israeli-watchdog-triggers-eu-turmoil-over-funding-of-ngos-linked-to-terrorist-groups/
		


The EU on Tuesday ordered its representatives in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem to investigate whether EU funds are reaching organizations affiliated with Palestinian terrorist groups.

The move follows a report by NGO Monitor, a watchdog group that promotes greater transparency among foreign-funded nongovernmental organizations operating in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

I'm sure if we just give them more welfare money we can expect different behaviors.


*Speaker at Hamas Police Graduation Ceremony: The Sons of Palestine Were Born to Blow up Their Enemies, Die as Martyrs.*


----------



## Hollie

I've seen nothing yet at Ticketmaster




*Saleh Al-Arouri, Deputy Head of Hamas Political Bureau: There Will Be an Intifada Very Soon*


----------



## Sixties Fan

It's hard for the Palestinian Authority that has been rewarding, glorifying and honoring terrorists since the day it was established in 1994 to reach a new low. But it did.

Just last week, the PA chose to honor the terrorist who murdered a mother and her three toddlers. Official PA TV Live broadcast a short filler honoring terrorist Jum’a Adam who in 1988 threw a Molotov cocktail at a Israeli bus. He murdered 26-year-old Rachel Weiss and her three sons Netanel, Refael, and Efraim aged 3, 2, and 1. Also murdered was David Delrosa, a soldier who attempted to save Rachel and her three children.






The short PA TV filler opens with the words ”Our Prisoners” on the screen, and ends with the words ”Freedom for our Prisoners.” In between, is the picture of the terrorist murderer with a short bio:

(full article online)









						PA reaches a new low – honors murderer of mom and three toddlers | PMW Analysis
					

Just last week, the PA chose to honor the terrorist who murdered a mother and her three toddlers.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

If you want to know where the international welfare money dumped on the Pal-Arabs actually goes to...,




Islamic Jihad Leader Ziyad Nakhalah: Thousands Of Palestinian Fighters Were Transported Out Of The West Bank, Gaza To Train In Camps Supervised By Qasem Soleimani


----------



## Hollie

*Summer camp, a time for fun?*










						Summer camp, a time for fun?
					

Color War is exciting, creative, and should build character; training for war is fundamentally child abuse




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				



Color War is exciting, creative, and should build character; training for war is fundamentally child abuse




Young Palestinians take part in a military graduation ceremony at a Hamas summer camp in Khan Yunis, in the southern Gaza Strip, on August 18, 2017. (AFP PHOTO / SAID KHATIB)
Many parents of my age remember striving to be able to send their children to summer camp. Now, as grandparents, we see our own children doing the same. I believed then, as I do now, that summer camp is a time when children make new friendships — many of which last into their adult years — grow emotionally and learn what we call “people skills.”


----------



## Hollie

*Fatah links popular parkour athlete to terror promotion publicity campaign*









						Fatah links popular parkour athlete to terror promotion publicity campaign
					

The signature of professional freerunner Lynn Jung appeared on six mocked-up banknotes alongside images of Palestinian leaders and terrorists.




					www.jpost.com
				




Fatah has used the profile of a professional freerunner in a publicity campaign which honors Palestinian terrorists, apparently without her endorsement.

A Facebook post published by Fatah on their official page on May 24 featured six mocked-up bank notes imagining a future Palestinian currency, alongside the caption "What if we had a Palestinian coin, what would it look like?"


The notes featured images of former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, Dalal Mughrabi, a terrorist who took part in an attack in which 37 Israelis including 12 children were killed, and Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni, who led the Army of the Holy War in the 1948 War of Independence. Each note also carries the signature of Lynn Jung, a professional freerunner, above the title "Minister of Treasury."


----------



## Hollie

They're like a bunch of battery operated toys.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like more cheap threats from from the Islamic terrorists in the West Bank.

My suspicion is that any Islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israelis from Fatah will be met with some quick and decisive responses by the IDF.


*PA and Fatah promise terror against Israel*
Itamar Marcus  | Jun 22, 2020









						PA and Fatah promise terror against Israel | PMW Analysis
					

An editorial in the official PA daily yesterday focused on glorifying Fatah’s past terror attacks.




					palwatch.org
				




An editorial in the official PA daily yesterday focused on glorifying Fatah’s past terror attacks. This served as an introduction to its warning of future terror, should Israel annex land as proposed in US President Trump’s Middle East peace plan.
The editorial warned:


> “The enemies and rivals know the Fatah Movement well. They know that when it speaks, it acts… it will turn [the rejection of the plan] into actions of popular struggle (i.e., term used by Palestinians, which also refers to the use of violence and terror) on various levels, because our people will not agree to the annexation of one centimeter of its land.”


The editorial took pride in Fatah’s past murderous terror:


> “Fatah has always said only what it is capable of doing, even though once it did the impossible when it fired the first shot (i.e., first terror attack against Israel), and when it turned the rocks of the youths during the glorious [first] Intifada (i.e., Palestinian wave of violence and terror against Israel, murdering approximately 200 Israelis, 1987-1993) into a symbol of the victory of the weak over the strong.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 21, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Who are the Palestinians?*

*Rashida Tlaib

*


----------



## Hollie

Meanwhile, in the mini-caliphate of Islamo-loons competing with the Fatah Death Cultists, “Al” is making blustering threats about blowing up Israeli buses.

I’m sure that “Al” is alluding to threats that disposable Islamo-yutes will be herded up to be sacrificed for the ummah. 


_Hamas MP Mushir Al-Masri said at a June 19, 2020 rally that was aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas - Gaza) that Israeli leaders Benjamin Netanyahu and Benny Gantz are deluding themselves if they think that Hamas will remain silent while they attempt to "pass the Deal of the Century, annex the West Bank, and Judaize Jerusalem." He said: "We are ready with our weapons [and] our rockets. We are ready to blow up buses [and] carry out martyrdom-seeking operations. Our people are ready for a powerful revolution against the occupier."_


----------



## Hollie

No. Hamas is not letting up against Israel. Hamas is stepping up their schedule of fashion shows.











						Hamas Is Not Letting Up Against Israel
					

Palestinian police officers loyal to Hamas march during a graduation ceremony in Gaza City, April 29, 2019. Photo: Reuters / …




					www.algemeiner.com
				








Palestinian police officers loyal to Hamas march during a graduation ceremony in Gaza City, April 29, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Ibraheem Abu Mustafa.

Some individuals serve as terrorist entrepreneurs or enablers, working with multiple militant organizations of different backgrounds. Mohammed al-Zawari, an engineer who contributed to drone arsenals for both Hamas and Hezbollah, was a notable example of a cross-group terrorist enabler until 2016, when Israel allegedly killed him in Tunisia.

On Wednesday, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) announced the detention of another terrorist facilitator: Mahmoud Baker, a senior arms smuggler who has worked with various Palestinian militant organizations in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

*Who are the Racists?*

*Rashida Tlaib*

*Detroit police chief calls Tlaib facial recognization idea 'racist'*
BY ZACK BUDRYK - 10/03/19 03:40 PM EDT 203

Detroit police chief calls Tlaib facial recognization idea 'racist'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Who are the Racists?*
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> *Detroit police chief calls Tlaib facial recognization idea 'racist'*
> BY ZACK BUDRYK - 10/03/19 03:40 PM EDT 203
> 
> Detroit police chief calls Tlaib facial recognization idea 'racist'



"Our worry is that right now the dialogue is not about how really broken and inaccurate the system is," Tlaib told the network.

The Detroit-area congresswoman has warned of the potential for error in facial recognition technology in the past, with the department’s official Twitter account inviting her to tour the facility after she said the department should “rethink this whole facial recognition bulls**t,” linking to Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) calling for a ban on the technology.

“Facial recognition technology is flawed, inaccurate, and broken. This technology is proven to misidentify Black and Brown folks at high rates and it is deeply concerning that it is being used in the city of Detroit – a city that is 80% Black," Tlaib said in a comment to The Hill.


----------



## Hollie

*Who are the Racists?*

*Rashida Tlaib*



U.S. Representative Rashida Tlaib told Detroit's top cop he should employ only black analyst to the department's facial recognition team because "non-African Americans think African-Americans all look the same."


----------



## Hollie

A rare showing of ethics and conviction on the part of the EU.

This is important news as we can hope to see the EU take a tougher line against Islamic terrorism. 





*For first time, the EU cancels grant funding to Palestinian group refusing to agree to anti-terror clause    *
By YOSSI LEMPKOWICZ June 18, 2020








						For first time, the EU cancels grant funding to Palestinian group refusing to agree to anti-terror clause - EJP
					

For the first time, a Palestinian group has been excluded from European Union funding for refusing to adhere to anti-terrorist clause included in the EU grant General Conditions. The group, Badil, Resource Center for Palestinian Refugee Rights, is involved in the anti-Israel BDS...




					ejpress.org
				




ShareTweetGoogle++



*For the first time, a Palestinian group has been excluded from European Union funding for refusing to adhere to anti-terrorist clause included in the EU grant General Conditions.*

The group, Badil, Resource Center for Palestinian Refugee Rights, is involved in the anti-Israel BDS (Boycott,Disinvestment,Sanctions) movement.

Last Friday, the EU informed BADIL,  in an official letter, that it was canceling €1.7 million ($1.9 million) in funding for a three-year joint project titled, “Mobilizing for Justice in Jerusalem,” over the group’s objection to the anti-terrorism clause.

“Based on your reply, we conclude that Badil cannot abide by the General Conditions as they stand and we are therefore obliged to consider your application no longer valid,” the EU letter read.


----------



## Hollie

Breathtaking beauty: Israeli land. Photo by Firas Mufeed Jarrar.


----------



## Hollie

Qal'at al-Qarn (Castle of the Horn), Upper Galilee, liberated from the Islamist occupiers / colonists.. Photo by Obaida Jamal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A rare showing of ethics and conviction on the part of the EU.
> 
> This is important news as we can hope to see the EU take a tougher line against Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For first time, the EU cancels grant funding to Palestinian group refusing to agree to anti-terror clause    *
> By YOSSI LEMPKOWICZ June 18, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For first time, the EU cancels grant funding to Palestinian group refusing to agree to anti-terror clause - EJP
> 
> 
> For the first time, a Palestinian group has been excluded from European Union funding for refusing to adhere to anti-terrorist clause included in the EU grant General Conditions. The group, Badil, Resource Center for Palestinian Refugee Rights, is involved in the anti-Israel BDS...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ejpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShareTweetGoogle++
> 
> 
> 
> *For the first time, a Palestinian group has been excluded from European Union funding for refusing to adhere to anti-terrorist clause included in the EU grant General Conditions.*
> 
> The group, Badil, Resource Center for Palestinian Refugee Rights, is involved in the anti-Israel BDS (Boycott,Disinvestment,Sanctions) movement.
> 
> Last Friday, the EU informed BADIL,  in an official letter, that it was canceling €1.7 million ($1.9 million) in funding for a three-year joint project titled, “Mobilizing for Justice in Jerusalem,” over the group’s objection to the anti-terrorism clause.
> 
> “Based on your reply, we conclude that Badil cannot abide by the General Conditions as they stand and we are therefore obliged to consider your application no longer valid,” the EU letter read.





			http://www.badil.org/phocadownloadpap/badil-new/publications/research/in-focus/EuropeanUnionConditionalFunding(PositionPaper-April2020).pdf


----------



## MartyNYC

“Palestinians” certainly are not from “palestine“...


----------



## Hollie

*Saudi Writer: Palestine Was Never an Independent State; The Palestinian Cause Is an Illusion*


----------



## Hollie

Dr. Al was on a roll during one of his sermons. He was rattling on with all the usual Islamo-cliches to include black eyed virgins and the Sons of Zion. 


_Gaza Islamic scholar Dr. Taher Al-Lulu said in a Friday, June 12, 2020 sermon that aired on Palestine Today TV (Gaza/Lebanon) that the Prophet Muhammad had said that martyrs will be rewarded by having their sins forgiven with their first drop of blood, by receiving a crown of honor, by marrying the 72 black-eyed virgins, by being able to plead before Allah on behalf of 70 of their relatives, and by being spared the torments of the grave, among other things. Citing the Quran, he said that the Jews and the polytheists are the strongest in enmity towards the Muslims, and he said that America is the "greatest Satan," along with President Trump. Dr. Al-Lulu said that President Trump is being humiliated by the smallest of Allah's creatures, the coronavirus. Furthermore, he prayed that the race-related "flames" that are currently engulfing America will burn America, the sons of Zion, and the "hypocrites and cowards" who have abandoned Palestine in its confrontation with the "global conspiracy."_


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are no other “refugees” from the 1940s in the world. Everyone settles someplace. But Palestinians are the only people who are considered “refugees” in perpetuity. Reuters doesn’t mention this.

Hamas controls Gaza. There is no reason for there to be any “refugee camps” in Gaza. The people should have been moved into regular housing long ago, and Israel attempted to do this in the 1980s – and the UN condemned Israel for that. Reuters doesn’t mention this.

UNRWA doesn’t try to resettle refugees or make them independent of handouts from the world. On the contrary, UNRWA’s existence is dependent on keeping the fake ”refugee” issue alive. Reuters doesn’t mention this.

When Kuwaik speaks of “return,” he is parroting a Palestinian propaganda that keeps “refugees” in misery in order to eventually destroy Israel by flooding it with Arabs. That is the entire purpose of “return” as Arabs have admitted for decades. Reuters doesn’t mention this.

For World Refugee Day, Reuters decided to use its platform to create anti-Israel propaganda with highly selective facts that conveniently are all exactly the same as the narrative that Hamas and the PLO tells the world. 

Reuters can point to the story and swear there is nothing incorrect, but there is a huge difference between being  not lying and being accurate. This story is not even close to accurate.

(full article online)









						Reuters’ World Refugee Day story from Gaza is a masterpiece of propaganda without technically lying
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There are no other “refugees” from the 1940s in the world. Everyone settles someplace. But Palestinians are the only people who are considered “refugees” in perpetuity. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> Hamas controls Gaza. There is no reason for there to be any “refugee camps” in Gaza. The people should have been moved into regular housing long ago, and Israel attempted to do this in the 1980s – and the UN condemned Israel for that. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> UNRWA doesn’t try to resettle refugees or make them independent of handouts from the world. On the contrary, UNRWA’s existence is dependent on keeping the fake ”refugee” issue alive. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> When Kuwaik speaks of “return,” he is parroting a Palestinian propaganda that keeps “refugees” in misery in order to eventually destroy Israel by flooding it with Arabs. That is the entire purpose of “return” as Arabs have admitted for decades. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> For World Refugee Day, Reuters decided to use its platform to create anti-Israel propaganda with highly selective facts that conveniently are all exactly the same as the narrative that Hamas and the PLO tells the world.
> 
> Reuters can point to the story and swear there is nothing incorrect, but there is a huge difference between being  not lying and being accurate. This story is not even close to accurate.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters’ World Refugee Day story from Gaza is a masterpiece of propaganda without technically lying
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


UNWRA is an aid agency only. It has no authority to resettle refugees.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: If Israel left the West Bank and Gaza, would there be peace with Israel?

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: If Israel left the West Bank and Gaza, would there be peace with Israel?
> 
> *



Stupid people - while they keep indulging in delusions of _"driving Jews to the sea"_,
and don't shy declaring it openly to the world with a sociapath smile,

Israelis have already surpassed the birth-rates of several major Arab countries,
and B"H in one generation every third Israeli is an Orthodox Jew.

Do you still think time is on their side?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: If Israel left the West Bank and Gaza, would there be peace with Israel?
> 
> *





			THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no other “refugees” from the 1940s in the world. Everyone settles someplace. But Palestinians are the only people who are considered “refugees” in perpetuity. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> Hamas controls Gaza. There is no reason for there to be any “refugee camps” in Gaza. The people should have been moved into regular housing long ago, and Israel attempted to do this in the 1980s – and the UN condemned Israel for that. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> UNRWA doesn’t try to resettle refugees or make them independent of handouts from the world. On the contrary, UNRWA’s existence is dependent on keeping the fake ”refugee” issue alive. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> When Kuwaik speaks of “return,” he is parroting a Palestinian propaganda that keeps “refugees” in misery in order to eventually destroy Israel by flooding it with Arabs. That is the entire purpose of “return” as Arabs have admitted for decades. Reuters doesn’t mention this.
> 
> For World Refugee Day, Reuters decided to use its platform to create anti-Israel propaganda with highly selective facts that conveniently are all exactly the same as the narrative that Hamas and the PLO tells the world.
> 
> Reuters can point to the story and swear there is nothing incorrect, but there is a huge difference between being  not lying and being accurate. This story is not even close to accurate.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters’ World Refugee Day story from Gaza is a masterpiece of propaganda without technically lying
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNWRA is an aid agency only. It has no authority to resettle refugees.
Click to expand...


UNRWA is an Islamic terrorist enabling welfare fraud.


----------



## Hollie

Say it loud, Al.


*Fmr. Kuwaiti Minister Al-Nesf Blasts Palestinian Strategy: Arabs Have Lost Wars, Must Pay the Price*


----------



## Hollie

This begs the obvious question; will the EU remedy this situation?



*Two loopholes in EU anti-terror laws and regulations: PMW presentation to MEPs*









						Two loopholes in EU anti-terror laws and regulations: PMW presentation to MEPs | PMW Analysis
					

The new report highlights two loopholes that have enabled the Palestinian Authority to be a recipient of European Union (EU) funding, even though the PA breaches the EU’s anti-terror laws and regulations consistently.




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jun 23, 2020
In a Webinar held today for members of the European Parliament, Palestinian Media Watch director Itamar Marcus presented a report he co-authored with PMW director of legal strategies Maurice Hirsch entitled “Two loopholes in European Union anti-terror funding laws.”

The new report highlights two loopholes that have enabled the Palestinian Authority to be a recipient of European Union (EU) funding, even though the PA breaches the EU’s anti-terror laws and regulations consistently.    
European Union anti-terror laws and regulations provide a comprehensive basis for outlawing membership in terror organizations, terror glorification, terror financing and other terror related offences. In order to effectively combat global terror, these laws and regulations should guide the EU in its decision making to allocate aid. States and non-state entities that are engaged in practices that breach EU law and regulations should not be eligible to receive EU aid. Since the daily actions of the PA breach the EU anti-terror laws and regulations, the EU should discontinue its support of the PA.


----------



## rylah

*HAMAS: ‘We Are Ready to Blow Up Buses’ *

Hamas MP Mushir Al-Masri (in Arabic 'Masri' means 'Egyptian') said at a June 19, 2020 rally aired on Al-Aqsa TV that Israeli leaders Benjamin Netanyahu and Benny Gantz are deluding themselves if they think that Hamas will remain silent: _*“We are ready to blow up buses, carry out martyrdom-seeking operations,” the Hamas MP threatened.*_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ An Honor suicide ]

Yesterday, Israeli forces killed Ahmad Erekat, a nephew of PLO negotiator Saeb Erekat, as he appeared to purposefully swerve into an Israeli soldier at a checkpoint. The Erekat family is calling it a cold blooded execution:

(full article online)









						Saeb Erekat’s nephew, killed during an attack at a checkpoint, seems to have made a farewell video (UPDATE)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Undercover Reporter Poses Questions to ‘Palestinians’ on Sovereignty, Citizenship
					

Q: "If elections were held today between Bibi and Abu Mazen, who would win?"  A: "Bibi"




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

In 2016, she told an American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) event that she only wants friendships and camaraderie with those who unequivocally support the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement. The BDS movement singles out Israel for political and economic isolation while ignoring other countries with far worse human rights records. The leaders of the BDS movement have said no Palestinian would ever accept Israel’s existence as a Jewish state.

Many have taken to social media to condemn Sarsour for promoting an event that excludes nearly all Jews. More than 90% of the world’s Jews consider themselves Zionists to varying degrees, in that they believe Israel has a right to and should exist as a Jewish state.

“*Open to all* (minus ~90% of Jewish people who are Zionists),” tweeted Israeli activist Hen Mazzig. “We won’t make this about us if you won’t. Stop it. This fight is too important for antisemites to abuse this way.”

“@lsarsour can’t even hold a rally against racism without expressing her own bigotry,” the group Democratic Majority for Israel wrote. “Her organization banned 95% of American Jews from an event they hosted.”

(full article online)









						Sarsour Group Says ‘No Zionists’ at Civil Rights Rally
					

Linda Sarsour. Photo: Festival of Faiths via Wikimedia Commons. It was an event to celebrate freedom and protest ongoing bigotry …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Who are the Racists?
> 
> Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Representative Rashida Tlaib told Detroit's top cop he should employ only black analyst to the department's facial recognition team because "non-African Americans think African-Americans all look the same."











						Wrongfully Accused by an Algorithm (Published 2020)
					

In what may be the first known case of its kind, a faulty facial recognition match led to a Michigan man’s arrest for a crime he did not commit.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## Hollie

There's more islamo-bluster coming from the Abbas mini-caliphate. It amounts to all the usual, strident threats. 

The usual theme coming from both the Hamas and Fatah mini-caliphates / dictatorships seems to follow a predictable script:
"We have matryrs (lots of disposable children we can throw onto the bonfire of Islam gee-had) willing to die.''

"We want to kill Jews''

"We will suffer.... (well, our minions will suffer), but we have lots of disposable minions.


*“We won’t die alone and we won’t suffer alone,” PA top official threatens Israel*









						“We won’t die alone and we won’t suffer alone,” PA top official threatens Israel | PMW Analysis
					

PA senior official Jibril Rajoub: “If the [Israeli] decision to annex is made – you [Israel] are in a battle with Fatah, the Fatah of Jan. 1, 1965 (i.e., Fatah’s first terror attack against Israel)”




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 25, 2020
*PA senior official Jibril Rajoub:*

*“If the [Israeli] decision to annex is made – you [Israel] are in a battle with Fatah, the Fatah of Jan. 1, 1965 (i.e., Fatah’s first terror attack against Israel)”*
*We must turn Israel’s “life into hell”*
*“There is general Palestinian agreement on popular resistance ‎at this stage, but we are prepared to move to another stage... If there will be an annexation, then we won’t suffer alone and we won’t die alone”*
*“The time has come to fight this racist and fascist occupation. No one can tell us that [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu and his coalition are elected. Hitler and Mussolini were also elected! Go back to history and read it correctly! If [Netanyahu] turns now to annexation, I’m telling you, we will not wave a white flag, we won’t die alone, we won’t suffer alone”*
*“We don't think that going to bloodshed at this stage [prior to annexation] serves our cause”*
*PA TV filler warns Israel:*

*Response to annexation will be “with spirit and blood”*


----------



## Hollie

*Who are the racists?

Rashida Tlaib.*









						Rashida Tlaib tells police chief to only use black facial recognition analysts
					

Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib left Detroit’s police chief outraged and insulted after a tour of his department’s new video surveillance facility — by telling him he should only hire black…




					nypost.com
				




Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib left Detroit’s police chief outraged and insulted after a tour of his department’s new video surveillance facility — by telling him he should only hire black employees to be facial recognition analysts, a report said.

“I think non-African Americans think African Americans all look the same,” the freshman congresswoman told the city’s top cop, James Craig, during a tour of the department’s Public Safety Headquarters, the Detroit News reported.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists set fire to Israeli-owned properties. Photo by Saddam Salah.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

*BLUF:*  We are mixing "apples" and "oranges" here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Wrongfully Accused by an Algorithm (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> In what may be the first known case of its kind, a faulty facial recognition match led to a Michigan man’s arrest for a crime he did not commit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


*(COMMENT)*

It is not uncommon for an enforcement system to misidentify something in the performance of their duties.  It was not a case of improper enforcement and it wasn't a case of intentional harm in the performance of their duties.  The system made a mistake.  

What is doing intentional harm is the outspoken idiots that are making a mountain out of a mold-hill.

Just my thought...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Israel delivering humanitarian supplies.


----------



## San Souci

Since there is no such thing as a Palistinian ,this point is moot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Following a lecture given by Palestinian Media Watch director Itamar Marcus earlier this week to members of the European Parliament, during which he presented a new PMW report entitled “Two loopholes in European Union anti-terror funding laws,” MEPs called for scrutinizing EU’s funding to the PA and for an investigation of how EU money ends up going to Palestinian terror organizations.

European Parliamentarians have called for a thorough investigation into how European taxpayers’ money is ending up in the hands of Palestinian terrorists, insisting during a meeting on Tuesday that any loopholes in the law through which the money is slipping must be closed.

“It should absolutely not happen that European taxpayers’ money lead to attacks on Israel,” Dutch MEP Bert-Jan Ruissen said at a meeting in Brussels on Tuesday morning. He was joined by Swedish MEP Charlie Weimers, who said, “If and where loopholes exist in EU counter-terrorism financing legislation, they must be closed immediately.”


Both MEPs are members of parties who sit within the Conservative and Reformists Group in the European Parliament.

(full article online)









						PMW lecture to European Parliament MPs, results in calls to investigate EU funding of Palestinian terror | PMW Analysis
					

Their comments were delivered during a meeting in which attendees heard from Itamar Marcus, director of Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), who presented the findings of his organization’s recent research paper titled, “Two loopholes in EU anti-terror laws and regulations.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC

*In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*

(full article online)









						A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
					

BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern




					besacenter.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

This tweet, the retweeters and those who “Liked” it, show as well as anything that Israel haters are just haters and have no ability to think beyond their bigotry.

Anti-racist protesters in Jerusalem crudely  defaced the “Lloyd George Street” sign with a marker to change it to “Floyd George Street.” 

A truly dumb Palestinian thought that the municipality of Jerusalem did this – and complained that they “misspelled” George Floyd’s name in Arabic.






OK, maybe Lena can be forgiven because she never heard of Lloyd George and didn’t notice the marker and white paint on the sign and doesn’t read Hebrew to realize that the “F” was obviously hand drawn. 

But this stupidity got retweeted and “Liked” hundreds of times, including by the Jewishly illiterate Jewish Voice for Peace. 

Finally, one person gently told Lena that she got it wrong but she was already on a rant so she redirected her anger from the Jerusalem municipality to the protester who obviously didn’t know Arabic and is therefore a disgusting Zionist who was Judaizing Jerusalem.

(full article online)


----------



## San Souci

Sixties Fan said:


> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org


And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.
Click to expand...


When Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” it had already been a common European Christian term, originating from a Roman name, “palaestina,” imposed on Jews in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. Romans had previously called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine enemies, of biblical fame, from the Greek world. A further slap at the Jews.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” it had already been a common European Christian term, originating from a Roman name, “palaestina,” imposed on Jews in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. Romans had previously called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine enemies, of biblical fame, from the Greek world. A further slap at the Jews.
Click to expand...

Yes.I know my own History. "Philistine" was a Aramaic word meaning invader. They were from Crete. After Israel trounced them ,they were annihilated by Sargon 2 of Assyria. They were in no way related to Arabs.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” it had already been a common European Christian term, originating from a Roman name, “palaestina,” imposed on Jews in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. Romans had previously called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine enemies, of biblical fame, from the Greek world. A further slap at the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.I know my own History. "Philistine" was a Aramaic word meaning invader. They were from Crete. After Israel trounced them ,they were annihilated by Sargon 2 of Assyria. They were in no way related to Arabs.
Click to expand...


Peleshet in the Hebrew Bible refers to Philistines.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” it had already been a common European Christian term, originating from a Roman name, “palaestina,” imposed on Jews in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. Romans had previously called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine enemies, of biblical fame, from the Greek world. A further slap at the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.I know my own History. "Philistine" was a Aramaic word meaning invader. They were from Crete. After Israel trounced them ,they were annihilated by Sargon 2 of Assyria. They were in no way related to Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peleshet in the Hebrew Bible refers to Philistines.
Click to expand...

Why split hairs? It was the Latin word for the Aramaic word. Doesn't matter. Just because Hadrian had a hissy fit is no reason for the Brits to dig up THAT name. There never was ,is not ,and never WILL be ,a "Palistine".


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” it had already been a common European Christian term, originating from a Roman name, “palaestina,” imposed on Jews in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. Romans had previously called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine enemies, of biblical fame, from the Greek world. A further slap at the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.I know my own History. "Philistine" was a Aramaic word meaning invader. They were from Crete. After Israel trounced them ,they were annihilated by Sargon 2 of Assyria. They were in no way related to Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Peleshet in the Hebrew Bible refers to Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why split hairs? It was the Latin word for the Aramaic word. Doesn't matter. Just because Hadrian had a hissy fit is no reason for the Brits to dig up THAT name. There never was ,is not ,and never WILL be ,a "Palistine".
Click to expand...


The British didn‘t dig up the name palestine—It had already been a common European name since the Renaissance, when Latin-speaking European Christians “dug up” the Roman name palaestina imposed on Jews, anglicizing it into palestine. Christian Arabs even learned of the name and arabized it into filastin. However, had Jews not rebelled against the Romans, these names would not even exist today.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan kindergarten children at their graduation ceremony, 2012, photo via The Israel Project Flickr CC
> 
> *In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, various clerics, and other influential figures within the Muslim world, as well as neo-Nazis and other extreme rightists, openly proclaim their desire to commit murder or even genocide against Jews and Israel. Many in the Western world either refuse to heed these statements or actively support them. Many others relentlessly criticize Israel and remain completely silent about Palestinian promotion of the killing of Jews.*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Stand Must Be Taken Against the Promotion of Murder
> 
> 
> BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,615, June 25, 2020EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In civilized societies action should be taken against anyone who expresses the desire to commit murder. The Iranian govern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the FACT is ,there is ,and never HAS been ,a "Palistine". After WW1 ,the British took over the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire. The Land ,East and West of the Jordan ,was occupied by Jews and Arabs. The ARABS got four fifths of that land ,now called Jordan. The Jews got one fifth. For some reason ,the British called it "Palistine" . With no historical concept whatever. And the "Palistinians" were actually the JEWS who lived there. It was actually a British protectorate ,not a Free nation. In 1948 , ISRAEL broke off from the British occupation. And THOSE are the FACTS. The Arabs have no claim to any of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” it had already been a common European Christian term, originating from a Roman name, “palaestina,” imposed on Jews in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. Romans had previously called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine enemies, of biblical fame, from the Greek world. A further slap at the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.I know my own History. "Philistine" was a Aramaic word meaning invader. They were from Crete. After Israel trounced them ,they were annihilated by Sargon 2 of Assyria. They were in no way related to Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Peleshet in the Hebrew Bible refers to Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why split hairs? It was the Latin word for the Aramaic word. Doesn't matter. Just because Hadrian had a hissy fit is no reason for the Brits to dig up THAT name. There never was ,is not ,and never WILL be ,a "Palistine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British didn‘t dig up the name palestine—It had already been a common European name since the Renaissance, when Latin-speaking European Christians “dug up” the Roman name palaestina imposed on Jews, anglicizing it into palestine. Christian Arabs even learned of the name and arabized it into filastin. However, had Jews not rebelled against the Romans, these names would not even exist today.
Click to expand...

Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been ,are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war ,Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.


----------



## Lipush

You're still bickering one another? Just hopped in to see if there's any change here.

Mhm. New faces. Nothing else changed.

Goodie.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ San Souci,  et al,

I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.



San Souci said:


> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.


*(COMMENT)*

In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:

◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:

◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​

Just my thought...                              






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## San Souci

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The PLO Charter says Israel must be pushed into the Sea. I say evert one of THEM should be scattered. There can NEVER be any peace with this scum. Being ARABS ,they could settle anywhere in the Arab world. 1000 times bigger than ISRAEL. And that obscenity on our Temple Mount should be blown away.


----------



## MartyNYC

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...

The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.

The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.

A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.

The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.

From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.

While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.


----------



## Hollie

PalMedia Watch makes some frighteningly obvious points. Islamic terrorists routinely announce their intentions while westerners and Israelis choose not to believe the message.


*PMW JPost op-ed: Israel must learn to speak 'Palestinese' to punish PA terror perpetrators*
Itamar Marcus  | Jun 28, 2020




For 27 years the names of the terrorists filling up our jails keep changing, but the few puppeteers pulling their strings remain untouched by justice, traveling through Israel with VIP cards. If Israelis and world leaders want to know what the PA is planning, who is behind the terror, and who must be punished, it’s about time they mastered Palestinese.
by Itamar Marcus

We are hearing reports from Israeli officials and media that the PA is telling them it is against armed terror in response to Israel’s expected application of Israeli law in parts of Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley. However, Palestinian Media Watch has been reporting that the PA messages to its people are openly promoting a terror campaign. Which of these two contradictory PA messages represents the current PA strategy?
The answer is that there is only one PA message and the problem is that Israeli leaders, the media and the international community have not mastered the Palestinian language  – “Palestinese.”

First, the signs and messages that the PA wants Palestinian terror to accompany the Israeli announcement are sent daily and in key places. The controlled official PA TV stations are broadcasting extreme terror promotion since the Israeli coalition agreement on April 20, promising annexation. The videos and language resemble the PA TV terror promotion during the PA terror campaign 2000 to 2005, in which over 1000 Israelis were murdered.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
Click to expand...

And the more PLO bastards that get killed ,the better. They have NO right to that land. Once again ,there is no such thing as a "Palistinian". They are terrorist murderers.PERIOD.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Because of an unverified  Israeli media report, the PCHR is not only refusing to step in and help where the PA is abdicating its responsibility to save the lives of its citizens. It is actively choosing to stop the assistance it was already giving!

In other words, if Abbas wants Gazans to die, PCHR will allow them to die – and then PCHR will blame Israel. Given a choice of human lives or politics, PCHR chooses politics, seemingly hoping that dead Gazans will make Israel look bad, which makes their deaths worthwhile.

When the PA and PCHR – which is closely associate d with the PFLP terror group – say that this is fully Israel’s responsibility, they are saying something quite fantastical. Israel would have to invade and re-occupy Gaza and take over all governmental functions from security to healthcare to sanitation in order to fulfil what they say are Israel’s legal obligations as the “occupying power.” (The fact that Israel does not and cannot run all those institutions today is proof that Israel isn’t the “occupying power!”) 

I’m not exaggerating. PLO Executive Committee Secretary Saeb Erekat said this weekend, “Netanyahu will be responsible for collecting garbage in Rafah, Jerusalem, and Hebron, and he will bear his full responsibility as an occupying power."

Obviously, it makes no sense to invade and re-occupy Gaza, a war that would kill thousands, in order to save a few dozen patients a year.  Just as obviously Hamas would not cooperate in Israel taking over governmental functions. But this is what the PA and PCHR are saying is Israel’s responsibility.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Center for Human Rights stops aiding Gaza patient transfers to Israel, preferring they die
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

__





						Muslims threatening Jews in public in Brussels–and Jaffa
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Sunday, a bunch of terror groups got together in the Gaza Strip and declared Wednesday to be a “day of rage.” 

The various factions, who usually don’t agree on anything, agreed that a “day of rage” would be a wonderful display of unity.

It is unclear how this Wednesday will be distinguishable from any other Wednesday.









						Wednesday is a Palestinian “Day of Rage.” Whatever shall we do?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
 ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

BLUF:  Is it the function of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) to directly interfere with a governmental action?  _(RHETORICAL as FOOD FOR THOUGHT)_  I think not...



Sixties Fan said:


> Because of an unverified  Israeli media report, the PCHR is not only refusing to step in and help where the PA is abdicating its responsibility to save the lives of its citizens. It is actively choosing to stop the assistance it was already giving!
> 
> In other words, if Abbas wants Gazans to die, PCHR will allow them to die – and then PCHR will blame Israel. Given a choice of human lives or politics, PCHR chooses politics, seemingly hoping that dead Gazans will make Israel look bad, which makes their deaths worthwhile.


*(COMMENT)*

It is the duty of the Israeli Supreme Court to decide on the question as to whether or not the State of Israel has a duty or  fiduciary responsibility to intervene in the matter of a dispute _(escalating into an armed conflict)_ between the Gazan Government and the Ramallah Government.  I would suppose the High Court would have to decide if there is a national interest to Israel.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
Click to expand...




MartyNYC said:


> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,


----------



## San Souci

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
Click to expand...


Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
Click to expand...

I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


As eminent Middle East historian Franck Salameh notes, the palestinian identity was a phony European invention originally applied to Jews...


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
Click to expand...




San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
Click to expand...


Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
Click to expand...

But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
Click to expand...


The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
Click to expand...

We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
Click to expand...


The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
Click to expand...

Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> San Souci said:
> 
> 
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> 
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> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.
Click to expand...


Of course. Arafat, father of palestinian nationalism, was an Arab, born and educated in Egypt. Here, Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished him that palestinians were bogus...


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arafat, father of palestinian nationalism, was an Arab, born and educated in Egypt. Here, Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished him that palestinians were bogus...
> 
> View attachment 357433
Click to expand...

Got a link to that? I can't read that small print.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arafat, father of palestinian nationalism, was an Arab, born and educated in Egypt. Here, Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished him that palestinians were bogus...
> 
> View attachment 357433
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got a link to that? I can't read that small print.
Click to expand...


Try to enlarge it.


----------



## San Souci

MartyNYC said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arafat, father of palestinian nationalism, was an Arab, born and educated in Egypt. Here, Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished him that palestinians were bogus...
> 
> View attachment 357433
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got a link to that? I can't read that small print.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to enlarge it.
Click to expand...

Can't. How do I find it online?---BTW--- Try this. There is an article "The Koran and Mein Kamph". Might find it interesting.


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
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> 
> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
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> MartyNYC said:
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> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arafat, father of palestinian nationalism, was an Arab, born and educated in Egypt. Here, Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished him that palestinians were bogus...
> 
> View attachment 357433
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got a link to that? I can't read that small print.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to enlarge it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't. How do I find it online?---BTW--- Try this. There is an article "The Koran and Mein Kamph". Might find it interesting.
Click to expand...


Not online. If you can’t pinch the pages to enlarge them, I can‘t help.


----------



## Mindful

However many times the Palestinian Arabs have been offered a state, they have chosen to turn it down, rejecting generous peace offers. They have preferred to use terrorism and three wars launched from Gaza in pursuit of their fantasy of destroying Israel.
This is where the plan for extending Israeli law over more territory becomes simpler to resolve both legally and morally. However many times the Palestinian Arabs have been offered a state, they have chosen to turn it down, rejecting generous peace



About This Website

GATESTONEINSTITUTE.ORG

The Future of Israel's Borders: International Law and Islamic Law. Part II


----------



## MartyNYC

San Souci said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
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> San Souci said:
> 
> 
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> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
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> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ San Souci,  et al,
> 
> I think that largely, what you say is true. But I always look at the intent of the pro-Arab Palestinians when they use these names. The common usage is already a matter of fact_(no matter who or when it came into being)_.
> 
> 
> 
> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still bogus. The Jews who LIVED there never called it that. There is no "Palistine" in the koran. There is no verse that the vile usurper Mohammad ever WENT to Jerusalem. The Ottoman Empire did not really emphasize that vile name. It was always "The Holy Land" to the Crusaders. The Byzantines called it The Holy Land. But it does not matter. There have never been, are not ,and will never BE Palistinians. They are ARAB Terrorists. PERIOD. As far as Land? Before the 6 day war, Gaza was owned by Egypt. West Bank was owned by Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the Blue Book titled the UN*Question of Palestine* is a classic example.  On page 5 • Paragraph 1, the UN uses phrases like:
> 
> ◈  "Mandate over Palestine"​◈  "Jewish  Agency  for  Palestine"​◈  "spoke for the Palestinian Arabs"​
> We may disagree on the meaning, application, or the usage, but the name is here to stay _(notwithstanding its origin)_.  To discuss its etymology is a futile effort to put forward a point.  Even the *International Criminal Court (ICC)* uses the terminology:
> 
> ◈  "State of Palestine"​◈  "occupied Palestinian territory"​◈  "Palestine Situation"​
> 
> Just my thought...
> View attachment 355829View attachment 355830
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Historian Bernard Lewis on the invention of the palestinians...
> 
> The Israeli conquests in the Six Day War in 1967 had another important consequence--the emergence of the Palestinian Arabs as a combatant force in the conflict, with a strong and growing sense of a common Palestinian identity and, ultimately, nationhood. The formation of this sense of identity began with the establishment of the British Mandate and the creation of a new and separate political entity called Palestine with different rulers, different institutions and above all different problems from those of the neighboring lands with which they had previously been associated. Already in the 1920s, Arab journalists and politicians began to speak of "the Palestine National Movement" and sometimes even of the Palestinian nation.  But this was exclusively in the context of the struggle against British rule and Jewish immigration. Their basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or--for some--Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine, the few exceptions being textbooks prepared for use in the Mandatory government's schools.
> 
> The establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus accelerated and transformed the development of Palestinian national consciousness.
> 
> A new era began with the establishment of Israel and the Arab exodus. From the manner of their departure from Israel, perhaps still more from the manner of their reception in the neighboring Arab countries, where they were for the most part confined in camps and, with the exception of Jordan, refused citizenship, the Palestinian Arabs acquired a much stronger sense of identity, based on common experience, and a sense of common suffering, need, and destiny.
> 
> The Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964, but it did not become a factor until after the war of 1967. The policies of the Arab governments had failed; their armies had been defeated.  The PLO offered a new policy and aspiration, and a new method of waging war against the Israeli enemy. Both of these won considerable support among the Palestinians, especially in the camps which before long came under PLO control.
> 
> From 1967 onward the PLO played a prominent, some indeed would say the leading role, in the Arab war against Israel. The Arab states, naturally enough, we're now principally concerned with the recovery of their own lost territories, and, increasingly, with the open pursuit of their own national interests.
> 
> While the Arab governments and armies projected an image of defeat and impotence, even to their own peoples, the PLO in contrast was creating a new image of the Arab as a daring revolutionary freedom fighter.  In this image, the Arab was portrayed as fighting alone against vastly superior forces instead of, as previously, fighting unsuccessfully against a smaller and weaker enemy. Correspondingly, the Israeli David fighting boldly against the Arab League Goliath suddenly became a Jewish Goliath trying to kill the PLO David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a Brittish COLONY . And the "Palistinians" ,according to the Brits ,were the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a British colony: Palestine was merely Britain’s nickname for the British Mandate, created at the urging of Jews in order to implement the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. British Mandate and palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am aware of this. But I am a bit more hard line on this subject ,since my old man immigrated here from Israel in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a European Christian name for Jews’ homeland, like Terra Sancta or Holy Land. The British adopted the name, as well. The British Palestine Exploration Fund founded in the 19th century still exists in London.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But It STILL never really existed in History. Except as a hissy fit done by Caesar. There never was a 'Race" of "Palistinians". Or Ethnic group. Or whatever. That is the point I am making. Yasser Arafat was a terrorist murderer worse than Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The name palestine was coined by a Greek writer Herodotus designating the Mediterranean coast inhabited by the Philistines, raiders from the Greek world. Later, the Romans applied the name palaestina to Jews’ country, and Europeans anglicized it to palestine. So, it has been a European term for land associated with other Europeans. There never was a place palestine founded by any Middle Eastern people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We seem to be on the same page. Once again. I will go one further. The term "Philistine" is a translation from an Aramaic word meaning "Invader". What these invaders called themselves is not really known. They came from Crete. Phoenicians? Maybe. They were defeated by Israel and then TOTALLY wiped out by Sargon 2 of Assyria. The ARABS are not "Palistinians ,or Philistines ,or anything else. Just Arab Terrorists who have NO claim to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word philistine is German in origin, from philister. The philistines didn’t even call themselves philistines. The Hebrew Bible calls them peleshtim, meaning invaders, from Crete. DNA research confirms their Aegean origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said. Just confirms that Arafats PLO is totally based on lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. Arafat, father of palestinian nationalism, was an Arab, born and educated in Egypt. Here, Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished him that palestinians were bogus...
> 
> View attachment 357433
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got a link to that? I can't read that small print.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to enlarge it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't. How do I find it online?---BTW--- Try this. There is an article "The Koran and Mein Kamph". Might find it interesting.
Click to expand...


Here ya go ⤵️


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ghassan Kanafani, Palestinian author and leading member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, 1970.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Ghassan Kanafani, Palestinian author and leading member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, 1970.



How's the non-capitulation working out for you?
Land for a possible "Palestinian" state keeps shrinking, eh?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Ghassan Kanafani, Palestinian author and leading member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, 1970.



Well that's the meaning of the word in Arabic which they translate as 'peace'.
So the question is utterly ridiculous.

But tell me, what exactly do they even have or control,
that they can surrender or capitulate to begin with?


----------



## Hollie

The politburo mouthpieces in the mini-caliphate of Abbas’istan have been making various threats to attack Israel via the usual forms of Islamic terrorist attacks. There were all the usual blustering threats coming from the islamo-talking heads.


*PA promises terror, claims it's allowed under international law*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 30, 2020

*“According to international law. It’s our right to use all the means of struggle,” says Abbas appointee*
*Fatah: We’ll use “armed struggle” to fight Israel*
*PA top official: We’ll use “resistance in all its forms” against Israel, “the enemy”*



Neither the PA nor Fatah are hiding their future plans should Israel apply Israeli law to the Jordan Valley and Jewish towns in the West Bank.
Using the different Palestinian euphemisms, the PA and Fatah openly say they will use violence and terror against Israel. Advocating a “popular uprising” and vowing to “use all means” and “resistance in all its forms,” they are determined to fight Israel – “the enemy.” The following are five examples, including PA and Fatah representatives, promising terror:
*PA top official: We’ll use “resistance in all its forms” against Israel - “the enemy”*



My suspicion is that the IDF will respond quickly and decisively to any Islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## San Souci

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ghassan Kanafani, Palestinian author and leading member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, 1970.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How's the non-capitulation working out for you?
> Land for a possible "Palestinian" state keeps shrinking, eh?
Click to expand...

It will never happen. Those terrorists will NEVER get away with what they are doing. There is no such thing as a "Palistinian".


----------



## Mindful

*Israellycool*
Hey Animals Australia, why are you blaming Israel for rampant palestinian animal abuse, reducing palestinian Arabs to children with no agency of their own?
Animals Australia, Australia's leading animal protection organisation, have for some inexplicable reason decided to post this


ISRAELLYCOOL.COM

Animals Australia Posts Anti-Israel Propaganda


----------



## Hollie

In quite an about face from their earlier bluster...











						Palestinians offer negotiations days before planned annexation - report
					

The PA dispatched a letter on Monday addressed to the Quartet on the Middle East, stating that it's prepared to renew negotiations with Israel and agree to "minor territorial exchanges."




					www.jpost.com
				





Folding like a house of cards.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are in a kerfuffle.  The EU is making the audacious demand that the Pals get their Islamic terrorist problem under control as a condition of EU welfare payments. What a novel idea!

After decades of the Pals having virtually limitless and untethered welfare money to support their criminal / Islamic terrorist enterprises, the action of the EU requiring accountability from the Islamic terrorists can only be described as Islamophobic... maybe even racist.












						Palestinian civil society rejects EU’s conditional funding
					

EU’s anti-terror clause in its grant proposals is political and ‘criminalises’ Palestinian resistance, civil groups say.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Palestinian civil society rejects EU's conditional funding
EU's anti-terror clause in its grant proposals is political and 'criminalises' Palestinian resistance, civil groups say

The stipulation, which was included in EU grant proposals late last year, identifies at least seven Palestinian political parties as "terrorist groups", and calls for Palestinian civil society organisations to vet individuals to ensure they are not affiliated with such parties.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> Ghassan Kanafani, Palestinian author and leading member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, 1970.



Liberation of Palestine? Except, palestine was a fake Roman name imposed on Jews. Roman Empire is gone, Israel is liberated.

Palestine never existed.


----------



## MartyNYC

As this British document from the British Mandate, nicknamed Palestine, indicates, Jews were designated as Palestinians. These were and are made-up European names...


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic Terrorist News Network was spreadin’ the propaganda. News clips were running pieces celebrating the misfits and psychopaths who are portrayed as the highest ideal for the Pal Death Cult.


*Palestinian Authority TV Honors Terrorists in Program-Filler Clips*
*



by JNS.org*




Mahmoud Abu Sorour, who killed an Israeli with the help of an accomplice. [Official PA-TV Live, June 16, 2020]. Photo: Palestinian Media Watch.
JNS.org– The Palestinian Authority has launched a new series of filler clips, aired between programs on its official television station, which glorify terrorists who killed Israelis, Palestinian Media Watch reported on Monday.
Each clip, broadcast on PA-TV Live, begins with the text “Our prisoners,” and ends with a call for “Freedom for our prisoners.”

In between is the image of a terrorist and a short bio, with no mention of the murders that he committed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

*Rashida Tlaib*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

It looks like the Euros may finally, finally decide to get serious about dealing with an Islamic terrorist problem they are financing.










						MEPs call for further investigations into EU funding of Palestinian terror
					

The PA passes around €200 million Euros received from the EU on to the PLO annually, which in turn distributes some of the money to terror groups.




					www.jpost.com
				





European Parliamentarians have called for a thorough investigation into how European taxpayers’ money is ending up in the hands of Palestinian terrorists, insisting during a meeting on Tuesday that any loopholes in the law through which the money is slipping must be closed.

“It should absolutely not happen that European taxpayers’ money lead to attacks on Israel,” Dutch MEP Bert-Jan Ruissen said at a meeting in Brussels on Tuesday morning. He was joined by Swedish MEP Charlie Weimers, who said, “If and where loopholes exist in EU counter-terrorism financing legislation, they must be closed immediately.”


----------



## Hollie

While the talking heads from the competing mini-caliphates may be blustering about putting their differences aside for the sake of Jew killing, they have to know that the IDF is going to proceed on the ''nip it in the bud'' policy toward Islamic terrorist attacks. 

I'm thinking that the term 'bombshell press conference' is a bit inappropriate to use in connection with Islamic terrorist splodeydopes. 











						With renewed Fatah, Hamas partnership, will Israel now face a return to terror?
					

Thursday's joint Ramallah-Beirut press conference may prove to be merely the latest failed bid for Palestinian unity. Or it could mark a dangerous turning point




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





At a bombshell joint press conference Thursday, Fatah Secretary-General Jibril Rajoub and Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri announced that their organizations would “unify their efforts” and collaborate “on the ground” to confront the threat of Israel’s annexation of parts of the West Bank.

If Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proceeds with his promised unilateral annexation, Rajoub said in Ramallah, “all options are open.” Speaking from Beirut on a screen set up next to him, al-Arouri vowed that “all forms of struggle” could be pursued after annexation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

From the UN’s OCHA-OPT report for the last two weeks of June:



> An eight-month-old baby boy, who needed a heart surgery at an Israeli hospital, could not exit Gaza and died on 18 June. Since 21 May, the PA has not accepted or transferred applications for exit permits from Gaza to the Israeli authorities, as a response to Israel’s plan to annex parts of the West Bank. Since then, only few patients referred for medical treatment in the West Bank or Israel managed to exit Gaza, with the help of NGOs or international agencies.


Not only does the Palestinian Authority stop these medical transfers, but so do Palestinian NGOs – the NGOs that the UN refers to are Israeli NGOs.

(full article online)





__





						The Palestinian Authority continues to block Gazans from getting needed medical aid. “Pro-Palestinian” groups remain silent.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA banks refuse to accept salaries for terrorists
					

Maurice Hirsch, Adv: Delay in payment ostensibly result of renewed refusal to receive tax monies Israel collects and transfers to PA.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> While the talking heads from the competing mini-caliphates may be blustering about putting their differences aside for the sake of Jew killing, they have to know that the IDF is going to proceed on the ''nip it in the bud'' policy toward Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> I'm thinking that the term 'bombshell press conference' is a bit inappropriate to use in connection with Islamic terrorist splodeydopes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With renewed Fatah, Hamas partnership, will Israel now face a return to terror?
> 
> 
> Thursday's joint Ramallah-Beirut press conference may prove to be merely the latest failed bid for Palestinian unity. Or it could mark a dangerous turning point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At a bombshell joint press conference Thursday, Fatah Secretary-General Jibril Rajoub and Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri announced that their organizations would “unify their efforts” and collaborate “on the ground” to confront the threat of Israel’s annexation of parts of the West Bank.
> 
> If Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proceeds with his promised unilateral annexation, Rajoub said in Ramallah, “all options are open.” Speaking from Beirut on a screen set up next to him, al-Arouri vowed that “all forms of struggle” could be pursued after annexation.


Abbas was always the division.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the talking heads from the competing mini-caliphates may be blustering about putting their differences aside for the sake of Jew killing, they have to know that the IDF is going to proceed on the ''nip it in the bud'' policy toward Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> I'm thinking that the term 'bombshell press conference' is a bit inappropriate to use in connection with Islamic terrorist splodeydopes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With renewed Fatah, Hamas partnership, will Israel now face a return to terror?
> 
> 
> Thursday's joint Ramallah-Beirut press conference may prove to be merely the latest failed bid for Palestinian unity. Or it could mark a dangerous turning point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At a bombshell joint press conference Thursday, Fatah Secretary-General Jibril Rajoub and Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri announced that their organizations would “unify their efforts” and collaborate “on the ground” to confront the threat of Israel’s annexation of parts of the West Bank.
> 
> If Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proceeds with his promised unilateral annexation, Rajoub said in Ramallah, “all options are open.” Speaking from Beirut on a screen set up next to him, al-Arouri vowed that “all forms of struggle” could be pursued after annexation.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas was always the division.
Click to expand...


You‘re the PLO’s spokesman for a messageboard?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the talking heads from the competing mini-caliphates may be blustering about putting their differences aside for the sake of Jew killing, they have to know that the IDF is going to proceed on the ''nip it in the bud'' policy toward Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> I'm thinking that the term 'bombshell press conference' is a bit inappropriate to use in connection with Islamic terrorist splodeydopes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With renewed Fatah, Hamas partnership, will Israel now face a return to terror?
> 
> 
> Thursday's joint Ramallah-Beirut press conference may prove to be merely the latest failed bid for Palestinian unity. Or it could mark a dangerous turning point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At a bombshell joint press conference Thursday, Fatah Secretary-General Jibril Rajoub and Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri announced that their organizations would “unify their efforts” and collaborate “on the ground” to confront the threat of Israel’s annexation of parts of the West Bank.
> 
> If Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proceeds with his promised unilateral annexation, Rajoub said in Ramallah, “all options are open.” Speaking from Beirut on a screen set up next to him, al-Arouri vowed that “all forms of struggle” could be pursued after annexation.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas was always the division.
Click to expand...


Cheap excuses.


----------



## Hollie

Interesting how a no nonsense approach to dealing with Islamic terrorists yields results. 











						Fearing Israeli sanctions, banks refuse to pay out Palestinian terror stipends
					

Military decree set to take effect, applying anti-terror law to West Bank and holding banks liable for PA payments to attackers and their families




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Four banks are again refusing to dispense stipends that the Palestine Liberation Organization pays to convicted terrorists, ostensibly for fear of Israeli sanctions that go into effect in mid-July, according to a Monday press statement put out by the Palestinian Authority’s official news agency, WAFA.

The statement, which was republished by many Palestinian news outlets, did not name the four banks. One banks that was previously said to have taken a similar measure in May is the Jordan-based Cairo Amman Bank.


----------



## Hollie

Yes. It’s summer camp. Horseback riding, canoeing, hiking, camping, Jew killing.., (*Record Scratch Sound Effect*)









						An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
					

It's not like your kids' typical summer camp.




					www.businessinsider.com
				




While the idea of summer camps may bring to mind roasting S'mores and swimming exercises, Palestinian youth living under Hamas have a very different experience.











Those Pali yutes. Ain’t they cute?


----------



## Hollie

The pinnacle of Pal-Arab young manhood. Self hatred and retrogression.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist'istan is hiring. I wouldn't expect Khaled "_let's kill some Jews'' _Mashal will actually be driving the car in a vehicle ramming attack or wielding a knife to stab them-there Jews, but the ummah's Kids are invited to do so on his behalf. 





Former Hamas Leader Khaled Mashal: The West Bank Must Rise Up against Israeli Annexation By Using Any Weapons Available, Vehicle-Ramming Attacks, Stabbings


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian Textbooks Still Celebrate Terrorists*









						Palestinian Textbooks Still Celebrate Terrorists
					

Palestinian demonstrators display a poster showing terrorist Dalal Mughrabi alongside the late PLO leader Yasser Arafat. Photo: File. There was …




					www.algemeiner.com
				







There was a small kerfuffle this weekend as stories came out that the official Palestinian fifth grade textbook for teaching the Arabic language mentioned how great Dalal Mughrabi was — but used the wrong photo of her.


Oopsies!


----------



## Hollie

*PA: “The Giants of Palestinian History” - are terrorist murderers*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2020




Who are “The Giants of Palestinian History”? According to the PA, the murderers of Israelis are the ones who deserve this distinction.

The Palestinian Authority continuously emphasizes that anyone who ever attacked an Israeli is a hero. As the greatest role models for Palestinian society PA leaders present the imprisoned terrorist murderers and those who “died as Martyrs” while attacking Israelis. Not only in word, but also in deed by generously rewarding the terrorists with life-long salaries, while in prison and beyond, as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed and continues to document.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie et al,

*BLUF: * For the Arab Palestinians, there are very very few within their culture that have distinguished themselves to such a degree that they achieve icon status for the people to imitate or mimic.  But the culture has artificially given that status to those that either died in Jihadist and Fedayeen attacks against the innocent in the form of awarded income or transfer payments for their families.



Hollie said:


> *PA: “The Giants of Palestinian History” - are terrorist murderers*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2020
> 
> Who are “The Giants of Palestinian History”? According to the PA, the murderers of Israelis are the ones who deserve this distinction.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians have a cultural appetite for violence with the skill set for hostile and murderous activity, held within the belief that the only way to become iconic and achieve cult status as "heroes" is through horrific violence.

I know that I refer to this specific group of people as "Arabs."  But most Arab recognize the symbolic image of the Cresent Moon as a sign of a "new beginning" and the shaping of dreams into a reality.  But for more than a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have adopted the way of the armed indiscriminate violence and intimidation.  There has been no "new beginning" the Arab Palestinians.  It is a cult of continuous armed struggle.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a Philistine artifact found in the Land of Israel:








No Arabic you'll notice.

Here is an inscription from Tel Arad left by the people known as the Jews in the Hebrew language from the same period







So, no. Arabs are not descended from the Philistines but Jews are descended from those who spoke and wrote in Hebrew. Indigenous.









						Are Palestinians Philistines?
					

Here is a Philistine artifact found in the Land of Israel:        No Arabic you'll notice.   Here is an inscription from Tel Arad left by th...




					myrightword.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma’an reports:



> Israeli occupation forces cut the electricity to 13 villages, in addition to eight Palestinian communities in the Jenin Governorate for a period of three hours, threatening to escalate the cutting of electricity, if these municipalities do not deal with the [Israeli] "Civil Administration"  directly.





> The Chairman of the Electricity Authority Yabad, Engineer Muhammad Adnan Abu Bakr, said: "The Israeli occupation forces cut off the electricity for three hours today in a warning signal, knowing that the Yabad Electricity Authority, which was established in 2012, is supplying 13 villages in addition to eight Palestinian communities in Jenin Governorate. And its population is more than 55,000Palestinian citizens. "





> Abu Bakr added, “We paid the last three months of bills, which amounted to more than 2,400,000 shekels, to the Palestinian Ministry of Finance duly, because they cut off security coordination with the occupation, it seems that the money did not transfer and the Israeli government did not make a monthly clearance and deducted the amounts from the authority.”





> Abu Bakr added, "The officers of the Israeli Civil Administration tried to communicate with the councils and municipalities in Jenin, to deal directly with them, but everyone refused to communicate and informed the occupation officers that the only address is Palestinian legitimacy and the Palestinian National Authority.”



Who needs electricity when you have a bizarre sense of pride that prioritizes your principles of not dealing with Jews above everything else?









						Israel tries to help Palestinians get electricity, they refuse
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Here's some snappy Islamic Death Cult music video. 



*PA culture of death: “Martyr, we must follow in your footsteps”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 5, 2020




*PA music video includes actual footage of stabbing attack*
A most effective form of mind control is repetition. The PA excels in repetition. One message that it is repeating now is the value of Martyrdom for Allah. For example, one music video broadcast by PA TV Live repeats to Palestinians the ideal of dying as “Martyrs” for “Palestine”: “Martyr, we must follow in your footsteps.”







It also repea


----------



## Mindful

*Why Islamic Terrorists Commit Attacks
- In Their Own Words*

"I am one of the servants of Allah.  We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of Allah.  It is also our duty to send a call to all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam...  

"Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."

*Osama bin Laden 1988.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Why Islamic Terrorists Commit Attacks
> - In Their Own Words*
> 
> "I am one of the servants of Allah.  We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of Allah.  It is also our duty to send a call to all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam...
> 
> "Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."
> 
> *Osama bin Laden 1988.*


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Islamic Terrorists Commit Attacks
> - In Their Own Words*
> 
> "I am one of the servants of Allah.  We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of Allah.  It is also our duty to send a call to all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam...
> 
> "Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."
> 
> *Osama bin Laden 1988.*
Click to expand...


Why do you bother?


----------



## Hollie

There are many sources that describe common characteristics of cults. One common theme among cults is indoctrination of the young. Both of the Islamic terrorist franchises occupying Gaza and the West Bank check the appropriate cult boxes. 




*Fatah’s role model: 14-year-old who chose death as a Martyr*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 9, 2020









						Fatah’s role model: 14-year-old who chose death as a Martyr | PMW Analysis
					

Still, after 20 years, a young Palestinian boy who sought and achieved death as a “Martyr” serves Fatah as a role model.




					palwatch.org
				




Still, after 20 years, a young Palestinian boy who sought and achieved death as a “Martyr” serves Fatah as a role model.

Already from the early beginning of the PA’s terror wave (2000-2005) - the second Intifada – the PA was actively encouraging Palestinian children to seek Martyrdom. One 14-year-old boy, Faris Ouda, deliberately entered into confrontations with Israeli soldiers with the goal of becoming a Martyr. Believing the PA’s brainwashing, Faris left his mother with the words: "Don't worry, mother, Martyrdom is sweet.” [Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 3, 2001] Expecting and hoping to die as a Martyr, Faris had prepared a wreath in his room with his picture and the words “The brave Martyr Faris Ouda.” [Official PA daily, _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 30. 2000] Palestinian Media Watch published its first report documenting the PA’s promotion of Martyrdom for children, already in November 2000, just two months after Arafat started the PA terror wave. Throughout the terror wave, the PA continued to teach children to “ask for death.”


----------



## Hollie

The keffiyeh. A symbol of Islamic terrorism. 









Rasmea Odeh, terrorist


----------



## Sixties Fan

Given that we are now in the three week period of mourning for the destruction of the Temples and Jerusalem, I was interested in this Arabic article from Egy4News of “the most beautiful poems about Jerusalem.”

I have not been aware of any Arabic poetry about Jerusalem before 1967, so I wanted to know the content of these “beautiful” poems.

Automatic translation does a poor job with poetry, but some bits and pieces of the poems come through:



> .. A war that destroys the breath of the Zionists .. Ink will cause important events .. Horror of earthquakes, a fire of volcanoes…
> …My family in all of the land has been separated .. And the children of the apes are the basis of my scourge…
> …The blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque is his land .. A land purified with all serenity .. And the prostitute desecrates his blessings .. With oppression, demolition…
> …The face of his dome was covered with soot .. The Jews of treachery had woven nets… so the families in Jerusalem feared for their pigeons.











						Palestinian “Beautiful Poems of Jerusalem” are, of course, antisemitic
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful

*Israellycool.*

Seems legit

Palestinian human rights activist Bassem Eid noticed something strange during his research in to the spending of the Palestinian Authority.


ISRAELLYCOOL.COM

Did You Know There is a Palestinian Airlines…With 140 Employees on the Books?


----------



## Hollie

While the al-jazeera piece repeats a slogan about the “illegally occupied West Bank”, their propaganda missed a very basic reality. A Pal-Arab state has ultimately been a failure linked to Arab intransigence and incompetence.  

The Pal-Arab leadership has been a parade of Islamic terrorist misfits who made themselves and their terrorist cabals incredibly wealthy by way of an  international welfare fraud syndicate known as UNRWA.











						Israeli annexation a ‘final nail in the coffin’ of Palestine
					

Palestinians in Ramallah demonstrate against Israel’s plan to annex a third of the occupied West Bank and Jordan Valley.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Despite a delay in the long-anticipated declaration of an Israeli plan to annex one-third of the already illegally occupied West Bank, including parts of the strategic Jordan Valley, Palestinians decried the plan with some holding protests in Ramallah and Gaza City.


----------



## Hollie

Yes. Now, even when compared with just a handful of years ago, the bottomless pit of need and caretaking that is Pal-Arab'ism is more yesterday's news than a regional Arab-Moslem rallying cry. 










						Israel: 'Our relations with Arab states do not depend on peace with Palestine'
					

Israel's relationship with Arab states does not depend on peace with the Palestinians, Israel's Minister of Intelligence Eli Cohen told i24NEWS on Thursday.    He stressed that even if a peaceful ...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





Israel’s relationship with Arab states does not depend on peace with the Palestinians, Israel’s Minister of Intelligence Eli Cohen told _i24NEWS_ on Thursday.

He stressed that even if a peaceful solution with the Palestinians seems impossible, Arab states are going ahead in developing ties with Israel as they believe the main threat within the Middle East is Iran.


----------



## Sixties Fan

By courting Hamas, Abbas and Fatah are emboldening an Islamist movement that seeks to extend its control from the Gaza Strip to the West Bank. Hamas's declared goal is to replace Israel with an Iranian-style Islamist state.
Abbas may also be using his renewed ties with Hamas as a way of pressuring the international community into providing him with more financial aid.
Hamas evidently wants to use the West Bank as a launching pad for carrying out terrorist attacks against Israel.
Hamas also does not appear to be headed towards recognizing Israel's right to exist. As such, Abbas seems to be handing Hamas the noose that eventually will be tied around his own neck.

(full article online)









						Palestinians: Abbas Signs His Own Death Warrant
					

By courting Hamas, Abbas and Fatah are emboldening an Islamist movement that seeks to extend its control from the Gaza Strip to the West Bank. Hamas's declared goal is to replace Israel with an Iranian-style Islamist state. Abbas may also be using his




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



This guy is funny!
Palestinians built an airport in Israel in 1934?
Not in the West Bank? LOL!

Now Jews are stealing land in Judea and Samaria?


----------



## Hollie

Poor, Ahmed.

Ahmed dead.

Next?











						PA rewrites history as it happens | PMW Analysis
					

PA denies car ramming terror attack and calls killing of terrorist “an execution in cold blood”




					palwatch.org
				




*PA denies obvious terror attack and calls killing the terrorist “an execution in cold blood”*
*Facts:
1. Terror attack was captured on security cameras
2. Terrorist recorded motive on phone before attack: “I’m not a spy, I never betrayed the homeland”
3. Terrorist shot by Israeli police during attack also captured on video
PA libel:
PA leader Saeb Erekat (terrorist’s relative): “Execution in cold blood of young Ahmed”*




> *Terrorist Ahmed Erekat phone message:* “Of course your brother isn’t (i.e., I’m not) a spy and nothing like that. I’ve never betrayed the homeland in my life... my brothers and sisters were not involved in this”
> [Twitter account of Israeli journalist Shimrit Meir, June 24, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is managing quite a kerfuffle over the defection of a “naval commando”.

We’re to believe that Hamas has a navy and navy commandos? I wasn’t sure that row boats and some flippers from Walmart constituted a navy but hey, if that’s what passes for an Islamo-navy....




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/07/13/hamas-most-dangerous-unit-cleans-house-in-wake-of-high-level-defection/
		



Following the reported defection of a senior naval commando officer to Israel, Saudi news outlet Al Arabiya says Hamas has arrested 16 of its own members, mostly from within the group's military wing, accused of spying on Israel's behalf.


----------



## Hollie

The Pallywood cartoon factory caught in another embarrassing fraud. 



An image shared on Facebook purportedly shows a Palestinian boy moments after an Israeli police officer shot him.









						FACT CHECK: Does This Photo Show A Palestinian Boy ‘Just After Being Shot’ By Israeli Police?
					

'His last and freezing look at his killer'




					checkyourfact.com
				








*Verdict: False*

The image is a still taken from the 2012 movie “Kingdom of Ants.”


----------



## Hollie

Sheikh what’s-his-name is rockin’ the house.

There’s no way to differentiate these cookie cutter islamo-talking heads as they all read from the same script and they all deliver the same finger wagging diatribes. 


Palestinian Sheikh Nasser Maarouf: The Jews Are Behind All The Bloodshed, Corruption, Poverty In The World; They Will Ultimately Be Vanquished


----------



## Hollie

Say it, Al. 





Saudi writer Abdulhameed Al-Ghobain said in a May 21, 2020 show on Etejah TV (Iraq) that there was never an independent Palestinian state, since the territory had previously been under the authority of the Ottoman Empire, followed by the British. He pointed out that most of the Arab countries were established in the beginning of the 20th century – some as late as the 1970s – and that the Arabs, Arab League, and Palestinians had refused to establish an independent Palestinian state when Israel was established in the late 1940s.


----------



## Hollie

Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''. 

Golly.

What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?












						Google, Apple ‘erasing Palestine’ from geographic apps - activists
					

Cyber-activist accuses US, Israeli governments of being behind efforts to ‘remove Palestinians from map of future'.




					www.jpost.com
				




A campaign launched by an Instagram account called “Astagfirvlah,” also spelled “Astagfirollah,” accuses Google and Apple of “officially removing” Palestine from their maps.

Wednesday’s Instagram post sparked widespread criticism on social media, accusing both companies of trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity and change facts to satisfy American and Israeli goals.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

*BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."



Hollie said:


> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?


*(COMMENT)*

But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine. 

The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.

The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
*

*
* Most Respectfully,
 R*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine.
> 
> The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.
> 
> The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
> *
> 
> *
> * Most Respectfully,
> R*
Click to expand...

The old guard of Palestinians (PA/PLO) are seeking to create a Palestine that doesn't exist.

The new Palestinians are seeking to free the Palestine that they already have.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine.
> 
> The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.
> 
> The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
> *
> 
> *
> * Most Respectfully,
> R*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The old guard of Palestinians (PA/PLO) are seeking to create a Palestine that doesn't exist.
> 
> The new Palestinians are seeking to free the Palestine that they already have.
Click to expand...


Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are just as oppressive and dictatorial as the old Pal terrorists.

Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are trying to crash the Israeli border and steal what they never had.



New Islamic terrorists, old Islamic terrorists, doesn’t matter. The names change but the gee-had, infliction of suffering and retrogression doesn’t change.  Arafat, Yassin, Rantisi, and al-Husseini are all gone, but their legacy of virulent hatred, bloodlust and Islamic mental disorder lives on.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine.
> 
> The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.
> 
> The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
> *
> 
> *
> * Most Respectfully,
> R*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The old guard of Palestinians (PA/PLO) are seeking to create a Palestine that doesn't exist.
> 
> The new Palestinians are seeking to free the Palestine that they already have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are just as oppressive and dictatorial as the old Pal terrorists.
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are trying to crash the Israeli border and steal what they never had.
> 
> 
> 
> New Islamic terrorists, old Islamic terrorists, doesn’t matter. The names change but the gee-had, infliction of suffering and retrogression doesn’t change.  Arafat, Yassin, Rantisi, and al-Husseini are all gone, but their legacy of virulent hatred, bloodlust and Islamic mental disorder lives on.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine.
> 
> The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.
> 
> The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
> *
> 
> *
> * Most Respectfully,
> R*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The old guard of Palestinians (PA/PLO) are seeking to create a Palestine that doesn't exist.
> 
> The new Palestinians are seeking to free the Palestine that they already have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are just as oppressive and dictatorial as the old Pal terrorists.
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are trying to crash the Israeli border and steal what they never had.
> 
> 
> 
> New Islamic terrorists, old Islamic terrorists, doesn’t matter. The names change but the gee-had, infliction of suffering and retrogression doesn’t change.  Arafat, Yassin, Rantisi, and al-Husseini are all gone, but their legacy of virulent hatred, bloodlust and Islamic mental disorder lives on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


Why is It?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine.
> 
> The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.
> 
> The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
> *
> 
> *
> * Most Respectfully,
> R*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The old guard of Palestinians (PA/PLO) are seeking to create a Palestine that doesn't exist.
> 
> The new Palestinians are seeking to free the Palestine that they already have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are just as oppressive and dictatorial as the old Pal terrorists.
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are trying to crash the Israeli border and steal what they never had.
> 
> 
> 
> New Islamic terrorists, old Islamic terrorists, doesn’t matter. The names change but the gee-had, infliction of suffering and retrogression doesn’t change.  Arafat, Yassin, Rantisi, and al-Husseini are all gone, but their legacy of virulent hatred, bloodlust and Islamic mental disorder lives on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * There was a time when the "Palestinian Identity" was more closely associated with the necessary backbone of "Palestinian Nationalism."
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something about "trying to obliterate the Palestinian identity''.
> 
> What, exactly, is "Palestinian identity''?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But under the guidance of "Fatah" and "HAMAS," the Arab Palestinians, in the public eye, are much more focused on their own individual advancement, and less on the advancement of national support for the independent state of Palestine.
> 
> The goal of supporting the a viable foundation upon which the Arab Palestinian can build a self-governing institution has been supplanted by the need for personal enrichment.  They can go into great detail to criticize what is wrong with the conditions and assign blame.  But they are at a snail's pace when it comes to recommending reasonable solutions.
> 
> The principal effort of the Arab Palestinian Leader is aggrandizement _(personal benefit)_.
> *
> 
> *
> * Most Respectfully,
> R*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The old guard of Palestinians (PA/PLO) are seeking to create a Palestine that doesn't exist.
> 
> The new Palestinians are seeking to free the Palestine that they already have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are just as oppressive and dictatorial as the old Pal terrorists.
> 
> Very strange how these new Pal terrorists are trying to crash the Israeli border and steal what they never had.
> 
> 
> 
> New Islamic terrorists, old Islamic terrorists, doesn’t matter. The names change but the gee-had, infliction of suffering and retrogression doesn’t change.  Arafat, Yassin, Rantisi, and al-Husseini are all gone, but their legacy of virulent hatred, bloodlust and Islamic mental disorder lives on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
Click to expand...

on several occasions, I have seen him try to justify the mass murder of Jews, so it's probably that your post just hit too close to home.


----------



## Hollie

PA searching for alternative to Google after Palestine 'removed' from map
					

Since the post went viral, the communications minister has said that it was reason enough to find an alternate search engine for the PA.




					www.jpost.com
				





*PA searching for alternative to Google after Palestine 'removed' from map*
By TAMAR BEERI 
JULY 18, 2020 19:25




Map of Israel - Google Maps
(photo credit: Courtesy of Google Maps)
Since the post went viral, the communications minister has said that it was reason enough to find an alternate search engine for the PA


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is what modern Muslim antisemitism looks like
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful

​
*The Hamas-Houthi Plan to Attack Arabs as Well as Israel*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
 July 20, 2020 at 5:00 am*
These Arabs and Muslims are worried, however, that the Hamas-Houthi alliance would not stop [with eliminating Israel] but also strengthen an Iran-led axis to threaten the stability of Arab countries.



For first time, the Houthi movement spoke of possessing information about "vital targets." The announcement is a clear indication that the two Iranian-backed groups, Hamas and the Houthi movement, are planning to launch terrorist attacks not only against Israel, but also against Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
"For the Muslim Brotherhood traitors [Hamas], supporting Palestine means firing missiles at Saudi Arabia." — Yaqoub al-Rayssi, a United Arab Emirates political activist, Twitter, July 11, 2020.
Hamas, by seeking to enlist the Houthi movement for its jihad against Israel, is sending a message that it is prepared to cooperate with any group in order to achieve its goal of destroying Israel and replacing it with an Islamic state.
The Hamas-Houthi alliance also shows that Iran is seeking to expand the terrorist activities of its agents in the Gaza Strip, Yemen and Lebanon not only against Israel and the US, but against Arab and Islamic states as well. 6









						The Hamas-Houthi Plan to Attack Arabs as Well as Israel
					

These Arabs and Muslims are worried, however, that the Hamas-Houthi alliance would not stop [with eliminating Israel] but also strengthen an Iran-led axis to threaten the stability of Arab countries. For first time, the Houthi movement spoke of




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Mindful

*Gatestone Institute*
5 hrs ·
Palestinian claims that they are the indigenous descendants of the Canaanites is a canard that has no basis in fact or history, especially in light of the fact that the entry of Islam into the area of the Holy Land occurred only in the seventh century of the common era.
From time immemorial, up to the present day, there has been continuous Jewish presence in this area, with elements residing today within the Jewish people's own sovereign national State of Israel, and others residing in the areas of the Holy Land in



About This Website

GATESTONEINSTITUTE.ORG

The Indigenous Rights of the Jewish People and the 2007 UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People


----------



## Hollie

The usual glorification of Arab-Moslem mass murderers. Really quite vile that Jew hatreds are elevated to a defining characteristic of the Pal-Arab cult.


*“**Brutal murderers" of Jews in 1929 massacre glorified as PA heroes*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jul 20, 2020




*“The heroes competed which of them would be executed first, and they were a symbol and example of defiance and self-sacrifice, of heroism and daring” – official PA TV*
Following the 1929 Arab Riots in which 65 Jews were massacred on one day in Hebron and dozens more in Safed, the British Mandate sentenced numerous Arabs to death. However, it “decided, in exercise of mercy… to commute the sentences in all but three cases, to penal servitude for life... The three Arabs whose sentences of death were carried out *had committed particularly brutal murders* [of Jews] at Safed and Hebron.” [British Gov. to League of Nations, Dec. 31, 1930]
Those three, Muhammad Jamjoum, Fuad Hijazi, and Ataa Al-Zir, were executed by hanging by the British in 1930.


----------



## Hollie

I have to think that Omar _empty the camps_ Razzaz has a certain agenda and is ignoring some basic realities with the notion of ''one-state democratic solution''.

Firstly, the Jordanians would like nothing better than to resolve their Pal problem by getting rid of their Pals. 

Secondly, the notion that the gee-had screeching, Jew killing Pals would suddenly discard their gee-had screeching, Jew killing proclivities at the stroke of a pen creating a new state is just nonsense. At no time in islamist history have moslems ever known western style democracy or representative republics. At no time in islamist history have the kuffar ever been treated as equals to moslems. 










						Jordan could 'look positively' on one-state solution if Palestinian-Israeli rights equal
					

Prime minister Omar Razzaz says Israel’s annexation plan would destabilise region




					www.theguardian.com
				





Jordan’s prime minister has said his country could view positively a “one-state democratic solution” to the Israel-Palestine dispute, as he warned that Benjamin Netanyahu’s plans to annex parts of the West Bank could unleash a new wave of extremism in the Middle East.

Omar Razzaz told the Guardian that the Israeli prime minister’s annexation policy would be “ushering in a new apartheid state” that could be a radicalising force and further destabilise the region.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This letter was not posted on the website of the Palestine General Federation of Trade Unions – Gaza Strip.

It was not posted to their Twitter account.

It was not posted to their Facebook account.

The organization changed its name from the Palestine General Federation of Trade Unions – Gaza Strip (as can be seen in this letter that they tweeted in January 2019) to the “Gaza Palestine General Federation of Trade Unions.” This letter from yesterday shows that their official communication has dates, a stamp and a signature.

(full article online)









						Do Black lives matter to Palestinians? Only when speaking to Western audiences.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nothing adds up. Someone would spend $250,000 to build a COVID-19 testing center without a building permit in Area C when they know ahead of time that it would probably be demolished?  80% of Hebron is in Area A, where such a center could be built with no permission needed from Israel.

In another article, Maswadeh changes his story to makes the issue sound even more dramatic. The testing center is no longer a drive-through facility but it was also a regular testing center and a residence for people to live while in quarantine before entering Hebron. It is no longer recently built after two months of construction but:

(full article online)









						More Palestinian lies: “Israel destroyed a COVID-19 testing center!” (UPDATE)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A couple of days ago, “Women of Palestine” tweeted this:






They probably meant “citrus” fruits.

This is in fact a Yemenite Jewish boy selling etrogim and myrtles, two of the four species Jews use for the holiday of Sukkot. 

Here’s an advertisement for etrogim from the Land of Israel from the 1920s:

(full article online)









						The Etrog self-own by “Women for Palestine”
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

I don’t believe the Emperor of Mahmoud’istan had any choice but to squash any opposition to his rule. What self-respecting Dictator / Emperor would allow a challenge to his authoritarian rule?










						Palestinian Authority Arrests Anti-Corruption Protesters in Ramallah
					

Palestinian Authority security forces arrested anti-corruption protesters in Ramallah on Sunday, drawing condemnation from local rights groups.




					freebeacon.com
				





Palestinian Authority security forces arrested anti-corruption protesters in Ramallah on Sunday, drawing condemnation from rights groups.

An organizer said the PA arrested 23 protesters in its de facto capital for speaking out against nepotism in the government headed by President Mahmoud Abbas. Health minister Dr. Mai al-Kaila and Abbas religious adviser Mahmoud al-Habash are among senior officials who have appointed relatives to top positions.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals host their dog and pony show on social media exhorting the faithful to kill Jews using the “hook” of carnal rewards offered by Muhammad’s never ending collection of teenage chattel.

Still, the death cult enablers receive international welfare In spite of how truly diseased this behavior is. 

*PA: Become a Martyr and “be led in a wedding procession” to 72 virgins*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jul 22, 2020

*“The Martyr of the revolution will be led in a wedding processionon the day that Martyrdom-death is granted to him”*
*“Escalate with bullets and bombs… The Martyrs’ blood illuminates our path”*



Since the Palestinian Authority started its terror campaign – the second Intifada - in 2000, it has been promising terrorist Martyrs that as Muslims they will be rewarded in Paradise with 72 Dark-Eyed Virgins. The promises are given in religious lessons, statements by political figures, and poems and music videos, while funeral notices are worded as “wedding” announcements. Becoming a Martyr, the PA teaches, represents the highest religious achievement that can be attained in Islam today.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Batur,”opined Vogue Arabia, “created this graphic with one thought in mind: Hope.” Indeed, it seems to be an honest expression of Batur’s hope that all Israeli Jews simply empty out of Israel. While Vogue Arabia’s article in English conceded that “critical voices highlight” that Israel’s noticeable absence from the image fails to “offer a balanced understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,” both its Arabic article and its Instagram entry could not be bothered to include that minimal qualification; instead, Vogue Arabia’s Instagram account referred to the image as Batur’s “creative rendering of Palestine” and included an even more extensive quote from the illustrator. 

A map labelled “Palestine,” covering Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, is hateful and incites violence, no matter how many flowers bloom upon it. Such maps express a desire to eliminate the state of Israel, depriving its Jewish people of their right of self determination, meaning a sovereign, peaceful and prosperous life in their ancestral homeland. Even if Batur’s vision for the elimination of the state of Israel would allow for some Jews to remain in “Palestine,” his artistic erasure of everything Jewish indicates a desire to assimilate the Jews of Israel and their communities into a hostile Arab environment that historically has shown little tolerance towards Jews and other minorities.

(full article online)









						Vogue Arabia Showcases Artists Who Erase Israel Off the Map
					

Palestinian propaganda repackages intrinsic contempt for millions of Israelis, Zionists and Jews under as “artistic expression,” “grassroots activity,” “personal initiative” or even “educational endeavor.”




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas’s leaders have repeatedly expressed deep concern over the apparent rapprochement between some Gulf states and Israel. Recently, Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem accused the United Arab Emirates of “promoting and encouraging” normalization with Israel and claimed that such efforts would “only serve the Zionist project.”

Some Arabs are now voicing extreme unease over the cooperation between Hamas and the Houthi movement. They say it would strengthen Iran’s terrorist proxies and cause a further deterioration of the situation in war-torn Yemen.

(full article online)









						Analysis: The Hamas-Houthi Plan to Attack Arabs, Not Only Israel | United with Israel
					

The Hamas-Houthi alliance shows that Iran is seeking to expand its terrorist activities in the Gaza Strip, Yemen and Lebanon against Arab and Islamic states as well.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Head of PA’s Mission to UK Lies and Distorts 1948 History
					

David Ben-Gurion declares Israel’s independence, at the Tel Aviv Museum, May 14, 1948. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. Husam Zomlot, head of …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of the mini-caliphate of Mahmoud'istan has realized that the islamo-tough guy dog and pony show is just an islamo-clown show. 

It's a bitter falafel to swallow, Mahmoud but regarding your sudden acceptance for negotiations, we have a saying here in the _Great Satan_: "that ship has sailed"










						Palestine ready for talks based on UN resolutions
					

Mahmoud Abbas congratulates Angela Merkel on Germany’s assumption of presidency of Council of European Union  - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told Germany’s chancellor he is ready for negotiations with Israel on the basis of United Nations resolutions and under the auspices of the international Quartet, according to local media Sunday.


----------



## Hollie

Bummer, dude. Mahmoud just lost three years worth of lease payments on his presidential jet. 










						The Dutch government halts funds to Palestinian NGO linked to terrorists - EJP
					

The Dutch government has halted €8 million ($9,2 million) in funding, over three years, to the Palestinian NGO UAWC (Palestinian Union of Agricultural Work Committees)  as a result of evidence showing that the group if linked to the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) terror...




					ejpress.org
				




The Dutch government has halted €8 million ($9,2 million) in funding, over three years, to the Palestinian NGO UAWC (Palestinian Union of Agricultural Work Committees)  as a result of evidence showing that the group if linked to the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) terror group, the Dutch Foreign and Development Ministers, Stef Blok and Sigrid Kaag, told the parliament in The Hague.


----------



## Hollie

There are times when the best description of Arab-Palestinian'ism is ''_failure_''












						A doomed Israeli–Palestinian peace | The Strategist
					

Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve ...




					www.aspistrategist.org.au
				




Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve one of the longest-running conflicts of modern times. Though no agreement was reached, the summit, in which I participated, wasn’t a failure: the framework it produced became the foundation upon which Clinton built his ‘peace parameters’—the most equitable and realistic rendition of a two-state solution ever created. Why did nothing come of them? 

...


But the Palestinians also resisted the parameters, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to constrain future negotiations. During a last-ditch attempt to clinch an agreement in Taba, Egypt, Abu Ala, the chief Palestinian negotiator, admitted to us that Arafat was no longer interested in the offer. That was a devastating mistake, the consequences of which Palestinians suffer every day.

Arafat’s decision can be explained less by a particular demand or concession than by the overarching, delusional and self-defeating worldview to which many Palestinians cling. As the late Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2001 article, the Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender to the logic of things, a belief that a mysterious higher power will always come to their rescue, as if the laws of history did not apply to them’.


----------



## Lipush

Off topic, but there is event going on in the north right now. Following.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There are times when the best description of Arab-Palestinian'ism is ''_failure_''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> A doomed Israeli–Palestinian peace | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve one of the longest-running conflicts of modern times. Though no agreement was reached, the summit, in which I participated, wasn’t a failure: the framework it produced became the foundation upon which Clinton built his ‘peace parameters’—the most equitable and realistic rendition of a two-state solution ever created. Why did nothing come of them?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians also resisted the parameters, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to constrain future negotiations. During a last-ditch attempt to clinch an agreement in Taba, Egypt, Abu Ala, the chief Palestinian negotiator, admitted to us that Arafat was no longer interested in the offer. That was a devastating mistake, the consequences of which Palestinians suffer every day.
> 
> Arafat’s decision can be explained less by a particular demand or concession than by the overarching, delusional and self-defeating worldview to which many Palestinians cling. As the late Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2001 article, the Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender to the logic of things, a belief that a mysterious higher power will always come to their rescue, as if the laws of history did not apply to them’.





Hollie said:


> Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender


Indeed, Israel has not won yet.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are times when the best description of Arab-Palestinian'ism is ''_failure_''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A doomed Israeli–Palestinian peace | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve one of the longest-running conflicts of modern times. Though no agreement was reached, the summit, in which I participated, wasn’t a failure: the framework it produced became the foundation upon which Clinton built his ‘peace parameters’—the most equitable and realistic rendition of a two-state solution ever created. Why did nothing come of them?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians also resisted the parameters, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to constrain future negotiations. During a last-ditch attempt to clinch an agreement in Taba, Egypt, Abu Ala, the chief Palestinian negotiator, admitted to us that Arafat was no longer interested in the offer. That was a devastating mistake, the consequences of which Palestinians suffer every day.
> 
> Arafat’s decision can be explained less by a particular demand or concession than by the overarching, delusional and self-defeating worldview to which many Palestinians cling. As the late Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2001 article, the Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender to the logic of things, a belief that a mysterious higher power will always come to their rescue, as if the laws of history did not apply to them’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has not won yet.
Click to expand...


Here we go again.

What now?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are times when the best description of Arab-Palestinian'ism is ''_failure_''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A doomed Israeli–Palestinian peace | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve one of the longest-running conflicts of modern times. Though no agreement was reached, the summit, in which I participated, wasn’t a failure: the framework it produced became the foundation upon which Clinton built his ‘peace parameters’—the most equitable and realistic rendition of a two-state solution ever created. Why did nothing come of them?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians also resisted the parameters, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to constrain future negotiations. During a last-ditch attempt to clinch an agreement in Taba, Egypt, Abu Ala, the chief Palestinian negotiator, admitted to us that Arafat was no longer interested in the offer. That was a devastating mistake, the consequences of which Palestinians suffer every day.
> 
> Arafat’s decision can be explained less by a particular demand or concession than by the overarching, delusional and self-defeating worldview to which many Palestinians cling. As the late Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2001 article, the Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender to the logic of things, a belief that a mysterious higher power will always come to their rescue, as if the laws of history did not apply to them’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has not won yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go again.
> 
> What now?
Click to expand...

It is Israel's war. They can stop it any time they want.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are times when the best description of Arab-Palestinian'ism is ''_failure_''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A doomed Israeli–Palestinian peace | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve one of the longest-running conflicts of modern times. Though no agreement was reached, the summit, in which I participated, wasn’t a failure: the framework it produced became the foundation upon which Clinton built his ‘peace parameters’—the most equitable and realistic rendition of a two-state solution ever created. Why did nothing come of them?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians also resisted the parameters, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to constrain future negotiations. During a last-ditch attempt to clinch an agreement in Taba, Egypt, Abu Ala, the chief Palestinian negotiator, admitted to us that Arafat was no longer interested in the offer. That was a devastating mistake, the consequences of which Palestinians suffer every day.
> 
> Arafat’s decision can be explained less by a particular demand or concession than by the overarching, delusional and self-defeating worldview to which many Palestinians cling. As the late Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2001 article, the Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender to the logic of things, a belief that a mysterious higher power will always come to their rescue, as if the laws of history did not apply to them’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has not won yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go again.
> 
> What now?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war. They can stop it any time they want.
Click to expand...


Yawn.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are times when the best description of Arab-Palestinian'ism is ''_failure_''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A doomed Israeli–Palestinian peace | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty years ago this month, US President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat to a peace summit at Camp David, in a bold effort to resolve one of the longest-running conflicts of modern times. Though no agreement was reached, the summit, in which I participated, wasn’t a failure: the framework it produced became the foundation upon which Clinton built his ‘peace parameters’—the most equitable and realistic rendition of a two-state solution ever created. Why did nothing come of them?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians also resisted the parameters, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to constrain future negotiations. During a last-ditch attempt to clinch an agreement in Taba, Egypt, Abu Ala, the chief Palestinian negotiator, admitted to us that Arafat was no longer interested in the offer. That was a devastating mistake, the consequences of which Palestinians suffer every day.
> 
> Arafat’s decision can be explained less by a particular demand or concession than by the overarching, delusional and self-defeating worldview to which many Palestinians cling. As the late Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2001 article, the Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender to the logic of things, a belief that a mysterious higher power will always come to their rescue, as if the laws of history did not apply to them’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians suffer from ‘an innate refusal to surrender
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel has not won yet.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Israel has won.


----------



## Hollie

More bad news for the Arab-Moslem terrorist's.


*PMW’s recommendation to seize terror money in banks upheld by Israeli court*









						PMW’s recommendation to seize terror money in banks upheld by Israeli court | PMW Analysis
					

PMW has been leading the battle internationally against the PA’s payments of salaries to terrorist prisoners, since PMW first exposed this PA practice in 2011. For more on this topic read here.




					palwatch.org
				



Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 27, 2020

Last December as part of a comprehensive report on combatting PA rewarding of Israeli Arab terrorists, Palestinian Media Watch recommended that Israel’s Minister of Defense seize the funds from the Israeli bank accounts in which the PA deposits salaries to these terrorists.

A few days later, Israel’s Minister of Defense, Naftali Bennett, responded and announced that for the first time, Israel would seize the PA payments to the Israeli Arab terrorists. A number of “Seizure Orders” were signed for millions of shekels that the PA had paid to the terrorists.

One of the terrorists, Israeli Arab Fahri Omar, has been paid hundreds of thousands of shekels in monthly salaries as a reward for his involvement in the 2005 suicide attack in the Israeli city of Hadera, in which six people were murdered and dozens injured.

Omar appealed the decision to seize his money to the Israeli courts. Yesterday, the Tel Aviv District Court rejected Omar’s appeal, thereby affirming PMW’s initiative.  

PMW is pleased that the Israeli government is taking concrete steps in the war against the PA’s terror financing, and expects that this policy of seizing the bank accounts in which terrorists receive their terror salaries will soon be expanded to all the banks in the PA areas.


----------



## Hollie

Anyone with their eyes open can understand that Islamic terrorist attacks are furthered by financing and incentives for perpetrators of those attacks, 

Cut financing for Islamic terrorism and you go a long way toward minimizing the attacks.






			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/07/27/court-state-can-seize-stipends-palestinian-authority-pays-jailed-terrorists/
		



The Tel Aviv District Court handed down an unprecedented ruling Sunday, saying that the state had the right to seize funds the Palestinian Authority is paying terrorists jailed in Israel.

Israel's Counterterrorism Law of 2016 lists provisions by which the Defense Ministry can seize "pay for slay" stipends – funds Ramallah pays jailed terrorists and the families of terrorists killed while committing attacks against Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Cutting off the head of the Islamic terrorist snake.











						Netherlands suspends aid to group that employed suspected Palestinian terrorists
					

Minister says Ramallah-based Union of Agricultural Work Committees paid salaries to members of PFLP terror group accused of murdering Israeli teenager




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





AMSTERDAM, The Netherlands — The Dutch government said Monday that it had suspended its contributions to a Palestinian organization that had used the subsidies to pay salaries to suspected terrorists.

The office of Sigrid Kaag, the Netherlands’ minister for foreign trade and development cooperation, told parliament that the Ramallah-based Union of Agricultural Work Committees used the money to pay two men in Israeli custody who are standing trial for the murder of a 17-year-old girl in a 2019 terror attack.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Today we remember the six Palestinians who were killed by Israeli occupation forces while protesting Israeli theft of Palestinian land on the first Land Day on 30 March 1976.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pallywood, pallywood...

Already debunked,
because you idiots can't even match the lies.









						Latest Libel: Israel Demolishes a Palestinian Coronavirus Testing Center
					

The Israel haters have been reporting that Israel demolished a palestinian drive-through coronavirus testing centre in Hebron.




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## rylah

Wo


P F Tinmore said:


> Today we remember the six Palestinians who were killed by Israeli occupation forces while protesting Israeli theft of Palestinian land on the first Land Day on 30 March 1976.



Die in riots over land which name they can't even pronounce correctly,

see the irony?


----------



## Hollie

Finally, finally, there seems to be some widespread acknowledgment that Pal Islamic terrorists are only encouraged by lack of accountability for their welfare money donated by the west.











						Holland Admits It Paid Palestinian Terrorists Who Murdered Israeli Teen - The Yeshiva World
					

The Dutch government publicly admitted this week that Dutch taxes that funded a Palestinian NGO was used to pay the salaries of two employees who were




					www.theyeshivaworld.com
				




The Dutch government publicly admitted this week that Dutch taxes that funded a Palestinian NGO was used to pay the salaries of two employees who were indicted for the murder of Israeli teen Rina Shnerb, 17, in 2019. 

The Israeli NGO Monitor, whose research was instrumental in revealing this information said: “It is commendable that the millions in Dutch funding to this group, linked to an EU-designated terror organization, have finally been halted.”


----------



## Hollie

Among the endless excuses and ''blame-gaming'' by the Pals for their failure to build a workable society and achieve statehood, some obvious deficiencies; powerful strategy, unity and leadership are noted in the linked article.

Billions of dollars in welfare donated to competing Islamic terrorist enclaves has garnered incredible wealth for the kingpins of a few Islamic terrorist syndicates. They shop at luxury malls built with western welfare money while they vilify the west for their failures.











						Ad_174_Whats Stopping Palestinian Statehood | FLAME
					

Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism, it attacks U.S. military assets, and its proxy militias have killed U.S. soldiers. The Islamic Republic also violated U.N. resolutions by developing weapons of mass destruction, and, after cheating on the Iran Deal, is on track to acquire nuclear




					www.factsandlogic.org
				




Over 72 years, Israel has offered land for peace and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have rejected all offers. How much longer should the world wait?


Only a tiny fraction of the world’s national groups have nation states. Both Kurds and Tibetans aspire to statehood, yet haven’t achieved it. Of 192 members of the United Nations, only 20 are nation states—the rest are multinational states. Thus, the failure of the Palestinians to achieve statehood is not unusual. Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership. Sadly, these qualities have eluded the Palestinians, preventing them from seizing multiple opportunities for statehood.

*Palestinians embrace a “conquest” strategy. *As stated in the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the Palestinian people are dedicated to the complete “liberation of Palestine,” and “elimination of Zionism in Palestine.” The Charter insists that “Armed struggle is the . . . overall strategy.” While Palestinian leaders have pledged to eliminate this belligerent goal, the PLO has never done it.

Likewise, the Charter of Hamas, the Palestinian terror group that rules Gaza, states “resistance shall continue until liberation is accomplished, the return [of Palestinians] is fulfilled and a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital” on the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, encompassing all of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Thankfully, an Islamic terrorist will not be a drain on resources of the _Great Satan_













						U.S. Deports Terrorism Convict It Had Sought to Hold Indefinitely (Published 2020)
					

The Trump administration sent the stateless man who had served his sentence to an undisclosed country rather than defend never-before-used executive authority to keep holding him.




					www.nytimes.com
				





The Trump administration said on Wednesday that it had deported a stateless Palestinian man who had completed a terrorism-related prison sentence, averting a legal showdown over whether the federal government has the authority in some cases to indefinitely detain a noncitizen.

The man, Adham A. Hassoun, 58, was sent to an unidentified country on Tuesday, according to an affidavit filed in federal court in Buffalo, N.Y., and his lawyer, Jonathan Hafetz, a senior counsel at the American Civil Liberties Union.


----------



## Hollie

Play stupid games....









__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				




Israel Defense Forces shot and killed a Palestinian terrorist Thursday night after he threw Molotov cocktails at a military post in the northern West Bank, according to a statement by the IDF.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Among the endless excuses and ''blame-gaming'' by the Pals for their failure to build a workable society and achieve statehood, some obvious deficiencies; powerful strategy, unity and leadership are noted in the linked article.
> 
> Billions of dollars in welfare donated to competing Islamic terrorist enclaves has garnered incredible wealth for the kingpins of a few Islamic terrorist syndicates. They shop at luxury malls built with western welfare money while they vilify the west for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad_174_Whats Stopping Palestinian Statehood | FLAME
> 
> 
> Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism, it attacks U.S. military assets, and its proxy militias have killed U.S. soldiers. The Islamic Republic also violated U.N. resolutions by developing weapons of mass destruction, and, after cheating on the Iran Deal, is on track to acquire nuclear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factsandlogic.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 72 years, Israel has offered land for peace and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have rejected all offers. How much longer should the world wait?
> 
> 
> Only a tiny fraction of the world’s national groups have nation states. Both Kurds and Tibetans aspire to statehood, yet haven’t achieved it. Of 192 members of the United Nations, only 20 are nation states—the rest are multinational states. Thus, the failure of the Palestinians to achieve statehood is not unusual. Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership. Sadly, these qualities have eluded the Palestinians, preventing them from seizing multiple opportunities for statehood.
> 
> *Palestinians embrace a “conquest” strategy. *As stated in the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the Palestinian people are dedicated to the complete “liberation of Palestine,” and “elimination of Zionism in Palestine.” The Charter insists that “Armed struggle is the . . . overall strategy.” While Palestinian leaders have pledged to eliminate this belligerent goal, the PLO has never done it.
> 
> Likewise, the Charter of Hamas, the Palestinian terror group that rules Gaza, states “resistance shall continue until liberation is accomplished, the return [of Palestinians] is fulfilled and a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital” on the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, encompassing all of Israel.





Hollie said:


> Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership.



So who is talking about creating a new state?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Among the endless excuses and ''blame-gaming'' by the Pals for their failure to build a workable society and achieve statehood, some obvious deficiencies; powerful strategy, unity and leadership are noted in the linked article.
> 
> Billions of dollars in welfare donated to competing Islamic terrorist enclaves has garnered incredible wealth for the kingpins of a few Islamic terrorist syndicates. They shop at luxury malls built with western welfare money while they vilify the west for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad_174_Whats Stopping Palestinian Statehood | FLAME
> 
> 
> Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism, it attacks U.S. military assets, and its proxy militias have killed U.S. soldiers. The Islamic Republic also violated U.N. resolutions by developing weapons of mass destruction, and, after cheating on the Iran Deal, is on track to acquire nuclear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factsandlogic.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 72 years, Israel has offered land for peace and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have rejected all offers. How much longer should the world wait?
> 
> 
> Only a tiny fraction of the world’s national groups have nation states. Both Kurds and Tibetans aspire to statehood, yet haven’t achieved it. Of 192 members of the United Nations, only 20 are nation states—the rest are multinational states. Thus, the failure of the Palestinians to achieve statehood is not unusual. Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership. Sadly, these qualities have eluded the Palestinians, preventing them from seizing multiple opportunities for statehood.
> 
> *Palestinians embrace a “conquest” strategy. *As stated in the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the Palestinian people are dedicated to the complete “liberation of Palestine,” and “elimination of Zionism in Palestine.” The Charter insists that “Armed struggle is the . . . overall strategy.” While Palestinian leaders have pledged to eliminate this belligerent goal, the PLO has never done it.
> 
> Likewise, the Charter of Hamas, the Palestinian terror group that rules Gaza, states “resistance shall continue until liberation is accomplished, the return [of Palestinians] is fulfilled and a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital” on the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, encompassing all of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So who is talking about creating a new state?
Click to expand...

The CHAZA - GAZA frauds,

you know, the only 2 countries that never existed before being "occupied".


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Qaws, the Palestinian LGBTQ  group, will hold a protestagainst both Palestinian patriarchy and Israeli oppression tomorrow.

But they won’t be holding it in Ramallah or Hebron. They are doing it in Haifa.
-------------

I suppose it pains them for me to point out that they chose to do the protest in Israel and not in their own Palestinian controlled areas – because they know that in the Palestinian territories they would be attacked and arrested by policewhile in Israel they will be protected by police. 

This is the “pinkwashing” they rail against – where they choose to protest in the very nation that they claim is oppressing them.

(full article online)









						Palestinian gays to hold public protest….in Haifa
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood, pallywood...
> 
> Already debunked,
> because you idiots can't even match the lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latest Libel: Israel Demolishes a Palestinian Coronavirus Testing Center
> 
> 
> The Israel haters have been reporting that Israel demolished a palestinian drive-through coronavirus testing centre in Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israellycool.com
Click to expand...

Israel admits to it. They just give their standard bullshit excuse for it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood, pallywood...
> 
> Already debunked,
> because you idiots can't even match the lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latest Libel: Israel Demolishes a Palestinian Coronavirus Testing Center
> 
> 
> The Israel haters have been reporting that Israel demolished a palestinian drive-through coronavirus testing centre in Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israellycool.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel admits to it. They just give their standard bullshit excuse for it.
Click to expand...


Sure, like when BDS-holes claimed Shakira cancelled a show, that was never booked.

Or the Jihadi filth from two weeks ago, claimed to be an innocent bunny,
in spite the video you've demanded, confirmed the ramming attack.

Isn't there anything you won't lie about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Among the endless excuses and ''blame-gaming'' by the Pals for their failure to build a workable society and achieve statehood, some obvious deficiencies; powerful strategy, unity and leadership are noted in the linked article.
> 
> Billions of dollars in welfare donated to competing Islamic terrorist enclaves has garnered incredible wealth for the kingpins of a few Islamic terrorist syndicates. They shop at luxury malls built with western welfare money while they vilify the west for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad_174_Whats Stopping Palestinian Statehood | FLAME
> 
> 
> Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism, it attacks U.S. military assets, and its proxy militias have killed U.S. soldiers. The Islamic Republic also violated U.N. resolutions by developing weapons of mass destruction, and, after cheating on the Iran Deal, is on track to acquire nuclear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factsandlogic.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 72 years, Israel has offered land for peace and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have rejected all offers. How much longer should the world wait?
> 
> 
> Only a tiny fraction of the world’s national groups have nation states. Both Kurds and Tibetans aspire to statehood, yet haven’t achieved it. Of 192 members of the United Nations, only 20 are nation states—the rest are multinational states. Thus, the failure of the Palestinians to achieve statehood is not unusual. Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership. Sadly, these qualities have eluded the Palestinians, preventing them from seizing multiple opportunities for statehood.
> 
> *Palestinians embrace a “conquest” strategy. *As stated in the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the Palestinian people are dedicated to the complete “liberation of Palestine,” and “elimination of Zionism in Palestine.” The Charter insists that “Armed struggle is the . . . overall strategy.” While Palestinian leaders have pledged to eliminate this belligerent goal, the PLO has never done it.
> 
> Likewise, the Charter of Hamas, the Palestinian terror group that rules Gaza, states “resistance shall continue until liberation is accomplished, the return [of Palestinians] is fulfilled and a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital” on the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, encompassing all of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So who is talking about creating a new state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The CHAZA - GAZA frauds,
> 
> you know, the only 2 countries that never existed before being "occupied".
Click to expand...

Duck!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Among the endless excuses and ''blame-gaming'' by the Pals for their failure to build a workable society and achieve statehood, some obvious deficiencies; powerful strategy, unity and leadership are noted in the linked article.
> 
> Billions of dollars in welfare donated to competing Islamic terrorist enclaves has garnered incredible wealth for the kingpins of a few Islamic terrorist syndicates. They shop at luxury malls built with western welfare money while they vilify the west for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad_174_Whats Stopping Palestinian Statehood | FLAME
> 
> 
> Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism, it attacks U.S. military assets, and its proxy militias have killed U.S. soldiers. The Islamic Republic also violated U.N. resolutions by developing weapons of mass destruction, and, after cheating on the Iran Deal, is on track to acquire nuclear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factsandlogic.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 72 years, Israel has offered land for peace and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have rejected all offers. How much longer should the world wait?
> 
> 
> Only a tiny fraction of the world’s national groups have nation states. Both Kurds and Tibetans aspire to statehood, yet haven’t achieved it. Of 192 members of the United Nations, only 20 are nation states—the rest are multinational states. Thus, the failure of the Palestinians to achieve statehood is not unusual. Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership. Sadly, these qualities have eluded the Palestinians, preventing them from seizing multiple opportunities for statehood.
> 
> *Palestinians embrace a “conquest” strategy. *As stated in the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the Palestinian people are dedicated to the complete “liberation of Palestine,” and “elimination of Zionism in Palestine.” The Charter insists that “Armed struggle is the . . . overall strategy.” While Palestinian leaders have pledged to eliminate this belligerent goal, the PLO has never done it.
> 
> Likewise, the Charter of Hamas, the Palestinian terror group that rules Gaza, states “resistance shall continue until liberation is accomplished, the return [of Palestinians] is fulfilled and a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital” on the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, encompassing all of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Creation of a state requires powerful strategy, unity and leadership.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So who is talking about creating a new state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The CHAZA - GAZA frauds,
> 
> you know, the only 2 countries that never existed before being "occupied".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duck!
Click to expand...


Actually two - one in CHAZA and one in GAZA

both frauds.


----------



## Hollie

I believe what is not addressed in the linked article is Iran’s influence in Gaza politics. All indications are that Iran is still supplying arms and welfare money to Hamas. Shia Iran has no benevolent interest in aiding the Sunni Pals who view the Shia as apostates.

I have to believe that at some point, the mullocrats in Iran are going to demand that Hamas strike out at Israel.

That could get very ugly for the Pal “dead Islamic terrorist walking” lackeys. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/07/24/hamas-is-deterred-by-continues-to-invest-heavily-in-armament/
		


The situation in Gaza? "What concerns Hamas the most is the economy." The sovereignty bid? "It won't be an excuse to resume hostilities." The next round of violence? "If they indiscriminately fire on Israel, we'll find it hard to contain our response." The IDF Southern Command's intelligence chief suggests Hamas tread lightly when dealing with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

The Palis are on a roll, including the addition of obligatory conspiracy theories.



			https://palwatch.org/page/18138h
		



PA says Jewish history in Jerusalem is “fabricated,” “forged,” “delusional myths,” “lies,” “libels,” “legends,” and “stolen heritage” 
Itamar Marcus  | Jul 29, 2020

The Palestinian Authority:
“[Israeli] plots are being woven against it [Jerusalem] to forge its identity”
“The stones in the ground are fabricated graves planted [by Israel] to prove… an ancient Israeli and Jewish presence”
“The greatest liar is [Israel]… stealing our heritage”
”[Jewish history is] delusional myths and the arrogance of power”
”They [Israel] imagine that by this brute force they can invent a [Jewish] history”
“Their so-called 'Temple' - the greatest crime and forgery in history"


----------



## Hollie

Another campaign involves the Pals spending some of their welfare money of Sharpie markers and drawing images of King Mahmoud on $1.00 US currency. They can add several zeros after the number 1 and make themselves rich.










						Palestinian groups launch campaign to put 'Palestine' on Google Maps
					

This campaign is following last week's viral Instagram post from user astagfirolah, which accused Apple and Google of removing the label "Palestine" from their respective digital world maps.




					m.jpost.com
				




This campaign is following last week's viral Instagram post from user astagfirolah, which accused Apple and Google of removing the label "Palestine" from their respective digital world maps.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists who take UNRWA welfare money may be feeling some heat regarding their glorification of mass murdering Islamic terrorist psychopaths.









						New UNRWA head to 'Post': No glorifying terrorists in our schools
					

PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS: Philippe Lazzarini tells the ‘Post’ how he plans to keep incitement out of Palestinian curriculum.




					m.jpost.com
				




In May, the European Union passed resolutions condemning the PA for continuing to teach hate. In response, Palestinian Education Minister Marwan Awartan presented a report to the Palestinian cabinet in which he laid out planned changes to the curriculum. His plans put Palestinian nationalism front and center of the changes, clearly paving the way for a curriculum of heightened division, rather than the toning down the EU had hoped for.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority’s refusal to cooperate with Israel, ostensibly because of “annexation” plans that have not happened, is only hurting Palestinians.

Which means the media is not reporting on the repercussions for fear of upsetting the narrative that Palestinian suffering comes from Israel alone.

A close reading of the UN’s OCHA-OPT reports for the last two months give a small glimpse of the issue, even though they try to downplay it as well.

From OCHA’s Gaza Strip: Snapshot  June 2020, released this week:

(full article online)









						The most underreported story: Palestinians suffering from the PA’s refusal to cooperate with Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Congressman Calls on Trump to Add Palestinian Leader to Terrorist List
					

Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-Colo.) wrote to U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday calling on him to designate the Palestinian Authority's Commission of Prisoners' Affairs and its director Qadri Abu Bakr as sponsors of terror because of their direct




					www.meforum.org
				




PHILADELPHIA – July 31, 2020 – Congressman Doug Lamborn (R-Colo.) has written to President Donald Trump calling on him to designate the Palestinian Authority's (PA) Commission of Prisoners' Affairs and its Director Qadri Abu Bakr as sponsors of terror because of their direct involvement in the monthly payments to terrorists and their families.


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems are falling over themselves with a new conspiracy theory, one that involves Israeli-Jewish influencers. 











						PA Foreign Minister: ‘Israeli-Jewish Influence’ Prompted Apple, Google to Remove ‘Palestine’ From Maps
					

"It is obvious who owns them."




					jewishjournal.com
				





Palestinian Authority (PA) Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki alleged in a July 18 interview with Palestine TV that “Israeli-Jewish influence” prompted Apple and Google remove the name “Palestine” from their respective maps.

According to the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Al-Maliki called for a petition to bring the “Palestine” name back to Apple and Google Maps, but said that a petition itself would not be enough.

“It is clear that these two companies have obvious orientations,” Al-Maliki said. “It is obvious who owns them, and the Israeli-Jewish influence on them is also obvious. All this makes them biased towards Israel.”

He added that the PA is looking to file international lawsuits against Apple and Google “for treating Palestine this way. We hope that we can begin taking such measures in the next few days.”


----------



## Hollie

Sacrifices must be made for the gee-had and for payments to convicted Islamic terrorists. 





__





						Palestine to pay half salary to public servants amid critical financial crisis - China.org.cn
					





					www.china.org.cn
				




RAMALLAH, July 26 (Xinhua) -- The Palestinian government on Sunday said it will pay the public service employees half of their salaries, for the second consecutive month amid current critical fiscal situation.

The Palestinian Finance Ministry explained in a press statement that those receiving approximately 500 U.S. dollars will get their full salaries, but others paid above this amount will receive only half.

The ministry said it will only be able to cover 50 percent of June's salary, which is slightly above the minimum wage in Palestine, or around 420 dollars.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Childhood on occupied Palestine


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslems are angry. They take offense to criticism about their financing Islamic terrorist acts and paying Islamic terrorists. 









						Palestinians slam congressman over call to impose sanctions on PA leaders
					

Palestinians on Sunday condemned Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-CO) for demanding that the US impose personal sanctions on Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and other senior PA officials.




					m.jpost.com
				





Palestinians on Sunday condemned Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-CO) for demanding that the US impose personal sanctions on Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and other senior PA officials.

In a letter to President Donald Trump, Lamborn wrote that the Palestinian leadership “has continued to pay the terror rewards to terrorists, spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year to these monsters and their families.”

Lamborn was involved in initiating the Taylor Force Act, signed into law by President Trump in 2018, which conditions US direct aid to the PA on the abolition of the PA’s payment of cash rewards to terrorists and their families.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi poses with a thank you to the Italian artists who were expelled by Israel for making this beautiful art on the Israeli segregation wall in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

Children being protected from Pal-Arab Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Childhood on occupied Palestine



It's not easy when your parents are terrorists.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi poses with a thank you to the Italian artists who were expelled by Israel for making this beautiful art on the Israeli segregation wall in the occupied West Bank.


 It's awful that a segregation wall stops Palestinian terrorists from killing innocent civilians.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Does Abu not understand that sacrifices need to be made for the Ummah.... and to fund the bank accounts of the Pal dictators and kleptocrats?

Abu is rather selfish. The other Abu needs money for the next payment on his presidential jet. 










						The Economic Hardship is Felt Again in Gaza
					

For more than 39 years, the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs has been essential reading for the nation’s most sophisticated populace. Our readers rely on us for the most comprehensive, analytical coverage of news from the Middle East, Muslim countries, Europe, and the United States.




					www.wrmea.org
				





*EVERY TIME 46-YEAR-OLD* Abu Dyaa goes to the ATM he comes back with the same results: Zero balance.

He knows, better than anyone else, that this means he can no longer provide vital medication for his mother or his dependent extended family. Living with his wife in southern Gaza, he recognizes that wage cuts have imperiled all their lives. He is one of 38,000 civil servants in the Gaza Strip who only learned of new disruptions to their incomes starting at the end of May after trying to extract funds from their bank accounts.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

In the face of Islamic terrorism, keep the IDF in your prayers as they respond to the  Islamic aggression


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Silly Israelis, defending themselves after Gazan terrorists commit war crimes against civilians.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Janna Jihad



Her face is uncovered. Where is the devout Muslim to beat her into submission?


----------



## Hollie

Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.


----------



## Hollie

So enjoy your stay (until you no longer fog a mirror), in the dar al-slammer, Khalil. Pray to Mecca over the toilet and through the wall toward "C" Block, _O you who believe._










						Palestinian Terrorist Who Killed Israeli-American Activist Ari Fuld Sentenced to Life in Jail
					

The late Ari Fuld, who was murdered by a Palestinian terrorist in Gush Etzion in September 2018. Photo: Twitter. The …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





The Palestinian terrorist who murdered Israeli-American activist Ari Fuld in September 2018 was sentenced to life imprisonment on Tuesday by a West Bank military court.

The terrorist, Khalil Jabarin, who was 17 when he stabbed Fuld to death outside a Gush Etzion supermarket, will also have to pay compensation to Fuld’s family.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Abuse of young girls has a long, lurid history in Islamism.


----------



## Hollie

I would expect that there is going to be retaliation for the Islamic terrorist attack. 











						IDF Iron Dome Fighters Intercept Rocket Attack from Gaza
					

Jewish residents throughout the district heard the impact as the Iron Dome fighters shot the rocket out of the sky above.




					www.jewishpress.com
				







Iron Dome anti-missile defense battery set up in the southern Israeli city of Sderot fires an intercepting missile.

Iron Dome fighters with Israel’s Defense Forces intercepted a rocket attack fired from Gaza Sunday night at Israeli civilians by Palestinian Authority terrorists, the IDF Spokesperson confirmed in a statement


----------



## Hollie

ICC leaves for vacation.

Pals disappointed.

World yawns. 












						The Palestinian Authority is disappointed because the ICC recessed for the summer without deciding about its authority to investigate Israel. The PA is working to accelerate the publication of the decision, anticipating that it will favor the Palesti
					

On July 17, 2020, the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague began its summer recess of three weeks without issuing a decision as to the ICC's authority to initiate an investigation of Israel's so-called "war crimes." Senior Palestinian figures were disappointed by the lack of a...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




On July 17, 2020, the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague began its summer recess of three weeks without issuing a decision as to the ICC’s authority to initiate an investigation of Israel’s so-called “war crimes.” *Senior Palestinian figures were disappointed by the lack of a decision*. The PA foreign minister represented the delay as the ICC’s surrender to American and Israeli pressure, adding that the ICC has sufficient proof to initiate an investigation of the settlements and Israel’s [alleged] “aggression” in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.


*Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*

This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.


----------



## Hollie

An interesting article about what drives Islamic terrorism of the Pal kind. 

I was struck by the lack of Islamic terrorist concern for the usual, tired grievances and the expected slogans. Much of the islamo-whining was about one-upsmanship among the Islamic terrorist franchises. It seems a driver of Pal Islamic terrorism is earning islamo-street cred among your Islamic terrorist peers.













						New Study Evaluates Major Drivers of Palestinian Terrorism
					

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. Palestinian terrorist attacks are not driven solely by …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




*by Steven Emerson*
OPINION



Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter.
Palestinian terrorist attacks are not driven solely by the desire to kill as many Israelis as possible. Sometimes, the intent is to provoke a harsh Israeli response. Other times, the aim is to shore up public support or outbid rival Palestinian factions.

The distinction often is driven by ideological and political calculations. For example, Islamist groups often try to disrupt the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, whereas organizations affiliated with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) are reticent when it comes to taking responsibility for some attacks, in order to maintain international legitimacy


Terrorist organizations often seek to outbid their competitors by escalating violence in order to signal their strength and determination. For example, organizational dynamics help explain last year’s PIJ-led missile barrage against Israel, as the Iranian proxy seeks to remain relevant and overshadow Hamas’ dominance in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
Click to expand...

So watch the video and show me where is this terrorist crap.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So watch the video and show me where is this terrorist crap.
Click to expand...

Watch the video on my behalf and I'll expect a written report.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So watch the video and show me where is this terrorist crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch the video on my behalf and I'll expect a written report.
Click to expand...

It is no surprise that you never learn anything.


----------



## Hollie

From the article:

"It is now standard operating procedure to fully neutralize a terrorist for fear that he is either wearing a suicide vest or will continue to try and kill after being shot — as some have done.''


I have to think that the Israelis assume the worst and protect themselves first in close proximity to Islamic terrorist psychopaths. 










						Opinion | Terrorism - and the Palestinian Authority rewarding it - was behind this week’s attack
					

It is now standard operating procedure to fully neutralize a terrorist for fear that he is wearing a suicide vest or will continue to try and kill.




					forward.com
				




In Israel, announcements of terror attacks and attempted terror attacks at checkpoints come at a disturbing frequency. Between rock throwings, stabbings, and car rammings, it can be multiple times a week. Each one is a potential nightmare for parents; checkpoints are often staffed by our 18-to-21 year old children serving in the military. These border police or soldiers check cars, seeking to protect their country, their families, their mothers and siblings, from terror attacks. 

They are less frequent now, thanks in part to authorities erecting concrete barriers and poles in front of hundreds of bus stops in 2015. But the images of these attacks are seared into the consciousnesses of Israelis and are on the minds of soldiers at checkpoints and civilians at bus stops. It is now standard operating procedure to fully neutralize a terrorist for fear that he is either wearing a suicide vest or will continue to try and kill after being shot — as some have done.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So watch the video and show me where is this terrorist crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch the video on my behalf and I'll expect a written report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is no surprise that you never learn anything.
Click to expand...

You're not going to do your homework assignment. I'm not surprised .


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So watch the video and show me where is this terrorist crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch the video on my behalf and I'll expect a written report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is no surprise that you never learn anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not going to do your homework assignment. I'm not surprised .
Click to expand...

You just don't want to debunk the bullshit from an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib. Cultured and dignified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> This was posted by a BS Israeli propaganda site so they had to play the terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So watch the video and show me where is this terrorist crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch the video on my behalf and I'll expect a written report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is no surprise that you never learn anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not going to do your homework assignment. I'm not surprised .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just don't want to debunk the bullshit from an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer you do that. Consider dumping a youtube video as a rebuttal to the video you take issue with... and then another video in response.


----------



## Hollie

This is how you deal with the Islamic terrorist gee-had.

Tag’em, bag’em and go home safe.









						Watch: IDF Thwarts Attempted Attack, Kills 4 Terrorists on Northern Border with Syria
					

Last week a Hezbollah cell attempted to infiltrate into Israeli territory, but was stymied by IDF soldiers.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The Israel Defense Forces thwarted a late-night attempted terror attack Sunday night on the northern border between Israel and Syria, when soldiers spotted a terror cell attempting to place explosives near the security fence along the border.

IDF soldiers and military aircraft opened fire at the terrorists, killing all four operatives. No casualties were reported among Israeli forces, and all units returned safely to base.


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinians' Chief Negotiator or Chief Liar?*
*by Bassam Tawil
August 3, 2020 at 5:00 am*



Saeb Erekat's continued lies and fabrications about Israel promote anti-Semitism and embolden terrorists.

As a veteran negotiator, it would be a good idea for him to use his experience to persuade the Hamas terrorists to release the remains of the two soldiers instead of waging a propaganda campaign on behalf of a terrorist who woke up one morning and decided to kill Jews.
With negotiators like Erekat, one can understand why the Israeli-Palestinian peace process has been stalled for so many years.







PLO secretary general Saeb Erekat's continued lies and fabrications about Israel promote anti-Semitism and embolden terrorists. (Photo by Abbas Momani/AFP via Getty Images)

Ahmed Erekat, a 26-year-old Palestinian from the village of Abu Dis, south of Jerusalem, was shot dead by Israeli soldiers on June 23 after ramming his car into an Israeli military checkpoint. One soldier was lightly wounded in the attack.
Footage released by the Israeli authorities leaves no room for doubt that Erekat was on a mission to kill soldiers. The footage shows Erekat deliberately turning his car as he waited in line, driving directly at the soldiers, hitting one female soldier and then crashing into a guard booth. Erekat then got out of the vehicle and started walking towards the soldiers, who fired a number of bullets at him, killing him instantly.
Such terrorist attacks are not uncommon in the West Bank, where Palestinian terrorists have carried out dozens of car-rammings against Israeli soldiers and civilians in the past few years.
This attack, however, caught the attention of the international media because the terrorist happens to be a relative of Saeb Erekat, the former Palestinian chief negotiator with Israel who currently serves as secretary general of the PLO.
Since the car-ramming, Saeb Erekat has been waging a campaign of incitement and lies against Israel. He has accused it of "cold-blooded murder" and now of the "extrajudicial execution" of his cousin.










						Palestinians' Chief Negotiator or Chief Liar?
					

Saeb Erekat's continued lies and fabrications about Israel promote anti-Semitism and embolden terrorists. As a veteran negotiator, it would be a good idea for him to use his experience to persuade the Hamas terrorists to release the remains of the two




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Palestinian officials deny that Jews ever lived in the Land of Israel, Arab arsonists torch the archaeological evidence that proves their leaders are liars.

(vide video online)









						WATCH: Israel Beats Back Palestinian Arsonists Scorching the Biblical Heartland | United with Israel
					

While Palestinian officials deny that Jews ever lived in the Land of Israel, Arab arsonists torch the archaeological evidence that proves their leaders are liars.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

I’d prefer the international community demand accountability from the Pal-Arabs.h









						Palestinians slam congressman over call to impose sanctions on PA leaders
					

Palestinians on Sunday condemned Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-CO) for demanding that the US impose personal sanctions on Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and other senior PA officials.




					m.jpost.com
				





Palestinians on Sunday condemned Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-Colorado) for demanding that the US impose personal sanctions on Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and other senior PA officials.

In a letter to President Donald Trump, Lamborn wrote that the Palestinian leadership “has continued to pay the terror rewards to terrorists, spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year to these monsters and their families.”


----------



## Hollie

Gee-denied. 





			MSN


----------



## Hollie

Eh! Children come and go. You make it up on volume.


Palestinian Scholar: Palestinian Mothers Have 10-15 Children, Ready to Sacrifice 2-3 Fighting Israel


----------



## Hollie

*Jews Control the Media Alert*










						PA Foreign Minister: ‘Israeli-Jewish Influence’ Prompted Apple, Google to Remove ‘Palestine’ From Maps
					

"It is obvious who owns them."




					jewishjournal.com
				




Palestinian Authority (PA) Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki alleged in a July 18 interview with Palestine TV that “Israeli-Jewish influence” prompted Apple and Google remove the name “Palestine” from their respective maps.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian leaders are worried following PMW's report and Cong. Lamborn’s letter to Trump*

*








						Palestinian leaders are worried following PMW's report and Cong. Lamborn’s letter to Trump | PMW Analysis
					

PMW: Designating the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs as a “sponsor of terror” would end the 25 years of de facto immunity from sanctions enjoyed by PA leaders




					palwatch.org
				



*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | Aug 5, 2020

*PMW: Designating the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs as a “sponsor of terror” would end the 25 years of de facto immunity from sanctions enjoyed by PA leaders, despite their clear involvement in terror. It would elevate the US and global war against Palestinian terrorism to an entirely new level.  *
By Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus


----------



## Sixties Fan

Only one problem: The donated blood will almost certainly never make it to Beirut. This is all for show. 

In general, because of logistics, blood drives and banks are made at a national level. This is more efficient and different nations have different standards of testing donated blood for safety. As far as I can see, there are few or no formal mechanisms to export blood internationally.









						Palestinians make a big show of donating blood for Lebanese victims. It is all a scam.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Only one problem: The donated blood will almost certainly never make it to Beirut. This is all for show.
> 
> In general, because of logistics, blood drives and banks are made at a national level. This is more efficient and different nations have different standards of testing donated blood for safety. As far as I can see, there are few or no formal mechanisms to export blood internationally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians make a big show of donating blood for Lebanese victims. It is all a scam.
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Arafat "donated blood" to help us after 9/11.
I guess he didn't know that we didn't accept donations from homosexual men.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The mistake in the unilateral Israeli withdraw from Gaza was any notion that the Islamic terrorist franchise occupying the area was in any way capable of establishing a workable society.












						Gaza Disengagement was 'absolute mistake,' says commander who oversaw it
					

Fifteen years later, Maj.-Gen. (ret.) Gershon HaCohen: Gaza withdrawal gave Hamas ability to increase rocket arsenal




					www.jpost.com
				




The Gaza Disengagement was “an absolute mistake” that allowed Hamas to increase its rocket arsenal, the man who commanded the operation told The Jerusalem Post.

The unilateral evacuation of 8,500 Israeli civilians and soldiers and the demolition of 21 Jewish communities in the Gaza Strip in August 2005 was ordered by then-prime minister Ariel Sharon and carried out by Maj.-Gen. Gershon HaCohen, then commander of the 36th Division.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The mistake in the unilateral Israeli withdraw from Gaza was any notion that the Islamic terrorist franchise occupying the area was in any way capable of establishing a workable society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza Disengagement was 'absolute mistake,' says commander who oversaw it
> 
> 
> Fifteen years later, Maj.-Gen. (ret.) Gershon HaCohen: Gaza withdrawal gave Hamas ability to increase rocket arsenal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gaza Disengagement was “an absolute mistake” that allowed Hamas to increase its rocket arsenal, the man who commanded the operation told The Jerusalem Post.
> 
> The unilateral evacuation of 8,500 Israeli civilians and soldiers and the demolition of 21 Jewish communities in the Gaza Strip in August 2005 was ordered by then-prime minister Ariel Sharon and carried out by Maj.-Gen. Gershon HaCohen, then commander of the 36th Division.





Hollie said:


> The Gaza Disengagement was “an absolute mistake”


And a lie too.


----------



## Hollie

It really is unconscionable that the west has been a part of allowing corrupt agencies such as UNRWA to promote Islam's ideologically based hatreds.  

Lets hope that women such as Dr. Joan Lurie Goldberg can succeed in throttling the UNRWA schools of hate.










						Teaching hate
					

NCJW’s Zoom call to focus on education of Palestinian children




					jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com
				





You can’t expect peace if you teach hate.

Common sense, right? A lesson the world has taught over and over again, no? An apolitical lesson, moreover, in that it doesn’t matter who is doing the teaching or the learning. It’s a universal truth.

But we don’t seem to learn it.

Dr. Joan Lurie Goldberg, a retired physicist who more recently has represented the International Council of Jewish Women — the international body to which the National Council of Jewish Women belongs — at the United Nations. At the U.N., she has seen the tactics that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East — UNRWA, for uneuphonic short — deploy as it trains generation after generation of terrorists, and she and her organization are working to counter it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mistake in the unilateral Israeli withdraw from Gaza was any notion that the Islamic terrorist franchise occupying the area was in any way capable of establishing a workable society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza Disengagement was 'absolute mistake,' says commander who oversaw it
> 
> 
> Fifteen years later, Maj.-Gen. (ret.) Gershon HaCohen: Gaza withdrawal gave Hamas ability to increase rocket arsenal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gaza Disengagement was “an absolute mistake” that allowed Hamas to increase its rocket arsenal, the man who commanded the operation told The Jerusalem Post.
> 
> The unilateral evacuation of 8,500 Israeli civilians and soldiers and the demolition of 21 Jewish communities in the Gaza Strip in August 2005 was ordered by then-prime minister Ariel Sharon and carried out by Maj.-Gen. Gershon HaCohen, then commander of the 36th Division.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Gaza Disengagement was “an absolute mistake”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And a lie too.
Click to expand...

And a lie, too.


----------



## Hollie

New UNRWA head to 'Post': No glorifying terrorists in our schools
					

PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS: Philippe Lazzarini tells the ‘Post’ how he plans to keep incitement out of Palestinian curriculum.




					www.jpost.com
				





We've danced that dance with the corrupt, Islamic terrorist promoting UNRWA (Islamic terrorist endowment), before.










						House Vote Curbing Hate in Palestinian Education Passes Unanimously
					

The House Foreign Affairs Committee unanimously passed a "peace and tolerance" resolution on Wednesday that calls for...




					www.breitbart.com


----------



## Hollie

As opposed to a regular gee-had, talking heads from the Abbas mini-caliphate are planning a comprehensive gee-had.

I suppose the Pal-Arab breeding population has reached a certain critical mass:  "*Palestinian Scholar: Palestinian Mothers Have 10-15 Children, Ready to Sacrifice 2-3 Fighting Israel''. *


*PLO/Fatah planning violent “comprehensive intifada”*










						PLO/Fatah planning violent “comprehensive intifada” | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah threatens: “Don’t try the Palestinians’ patience. Whether this gun is empty or fully loaded, we have a gun in our hand”




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 6, 2020




*Fatah threatens: “Don’t try the Palestinians’ patience. Whether this gun is empty or fully loaded, we have a gun in our hand”*
*PA decision: Coming actions will “be based on” previous terror waves*


----------



## Hollie

Following attacks from Hamas, the IDF delivered some attitude adjustment to the Islamic terrorists.





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/08/07/idf-strikes-gaza-in-response-to-explosive-balloons/
		



Airstrikes target "infrastructure used for underground activities" by Hamas after a balloon-strapped explosive device land in the southern town of Arad.

By  Lilach Shoval  and AP 

 Published on  08-07-2020 05:54
 Last modified: 08-07-2020 05:54





The Israeli military confirmed that it attacked targets in the northern Gaza Strip late Thursday night after Palestinian terrorists launched explosive balloons from the territory into Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mohammed and Marwa got married only a few weeks before the Israeli aggression on Gaza last week. An Israeli rocket turned the house of the newlyweds into wreckage.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Mohammed and Marwa got married only a few weeks before the Israeli aggression on Gaza last week. An Israeli rocket turned the house of the newlyweds into wreckage.



Marwa is still angry at Mohammed for storing rockets and explosives in their kitchen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman bursts into tears as she sits on the ruins of her home which has been demolished by Israeli occupation forces in Ramallah.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, come on. You knew this was coming.









						PLO Political Bureau Chief Anwar Abdul Hadi: Israel May Be Behind The Beirut Explosion; Israelis Have A 'Fake Biblical' Mentality That They Are The Chosen People And So Are Capable Of Any Crime
					

Ambassador Anwar Anwar Abdul Hadi, the Head of the PLO Political Bureau and the organization top official in Damascus, s...




					www.memri.org
				




*PLO Political Bureau Chief Anwar Abdul Hadi: Israel May Be Behind The Beirut Explosion; Israelis Have A 'Fake Biblical' Mentality That They Are The Chosen People And So Are Capable Of Any Crime*


----------



## Hollie

A Palestinian woman bursts into tears as she faces the bleak prospect of existence in the Hellhole of Pal-Arabism


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arab activists moonlighting as Islamic terrorists.

Shocking!










						Palestinian rights activists moonlight as terrorists
					

The fact that the ties between Palestinian civil society groups and terrorist organizations have significantly deepened over the years should alarm anyone.




					m.jpost.com
				





The fact that the ties between Palestinian civil society groups and terrorist organizations have significantly deepened over the years should alarm anyone.
A tactic made famous by Yasser Arafat, Palestinian leaders have a long and rich history of saying one thing to Western audiences, and another thing entirely to their own Palestinian audience. If recent reports are any indicator, that tradition has expanded to Palestinian NGOs, which are receiving hundreds of millions of dollars from the EU and European governments. The recent reports from the Israel’s Ministry of Strategic Affairs paint an alarming picture of how terrorist organizations like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) are actively and intentionally using Palestinian NGOs to collect funds and promote goals of internationally recognized terrorist groups.


----------



## Hollie

Mohammed and Marwa got married just a few weeks before Hamas launched rockets at Israel.

Gee-had is all fun and games... until it’s not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Mohammed and Marwa got married just a few weeks before Hamas launched rockets at Israel.
> 
> Gee-had is all fun and games... until it’s not.


Juvenile.


----------



## Hollie

Israel delivered the anti gee-had.

If you like your falafel well done...










						Video: IDF Confirms Strikes on Underground Hamas Posts in Gaza
					

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) announced on Thursday evening they had targeted several underground installations in the Gaza Strip used by Hamas, which governs the territory.




					sputniknews.com
				








The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) announced on Thursday evening they had targeted several underground installations in the Gaza Strip used by Hamas, which governs the territory.

"Terrorists in Gaza launched explosive balloons into Israel throughout the day," the IDF tweeted late on Thursday. "In response, our aircraft just struck Hamas underground terror infrastructure in Gaza. We won't let Hamas terrorize Israeli civilians."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mohammed and Marwa got married just a few weeks before Hamas launched rockets at Israel.
> 
> Gee-had is all fun and games... until it’s not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Juvenile.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

I’ll bet you didn’t know there was such a thing as An-Najah National University in Nablus.

I’ll bet you know where this is going. 



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/02/20/absurdity-101-unesco-helps-palestinian-terrorists-study-human-rights-in-israeli-prisons/
		


The An-Najah National University in Nablus, is funding a special academic program that gives convicted Palestinian terrorists in Israeli jails the opportunity to study "human rights" and apparently this is done with UNESCO's blessing and organizational assistance, although without UNESCO funds.

One of the "star" students of the program, whose graduation certificate was published by the university, is Wael Hijazi Abu Shahadem, who according to the certificate completed the "15-hour course in Nafha prison." And why is this human rights "star" in prison? In 2002 he helped plan the suicide bombing at Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem, in which six people were murdered. He is serving no less than six life sentences for his crimes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal-Arab activists moonlighting as Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Shocking!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian rights activists moonlight as terrorists
> 
> 
> The fact that the ties between Palestinian civil society groups and terrorist organizations have significantly deepened over the years should alarm anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the ties between Palestinian civil society groups and terrorist organizations have significantly deepened over the years should alarm anyone.
> A tactic made famous by Yasser Arafat, Palestinian leaders have a long and rich history of saying one thing to Western audiences, and another thing entirely to their own Palestinian audience. If recent reports are any indicator, that tradition has expanded to Palestinian NGOs, which are receiving hundreds of millions of dollars from the EU and European governments. The recent reports from the Israel’s Ministry of Strategic Affairs paint an alarming picture of how terrorist organizations like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) are actively and intentionally using Palestinian NGOs to collect funds and promote goals of internationally recognized terrorist groups.


Palestinian law does not allow any affiliation between NGOs and political parties.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrested Tasneem Ap Qadi 28 years old during a night raid at her house ,
They can imprison our bodies but they can’t imprison our souls


----------



## P F Tinmore

Majdi Elwan and his family have been left destitute after Israeli occupation forces demolished their home in Beit Hanina, Jerusalem, this morning.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal-Arab activists moonlighting as Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Shocking!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian rights activists moonlight as terrorists
> 
> 
> The fact that the ties between Palestinian civil society groups and terrorist organizations have significantly deepened over the years should alarm anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the ties between Palestinian civil society groups and terrorist organizations have significantly deepened over the years should alarm anyone.
> A tactic made famous by Yasser Arafat, Palestinian leaders have a long and rich history of saying one thing to Western audiences, and another thing entirely to their own Palestinian audience. If recent reports are any indicator, that tradition has expanded to Palestinian NGOs, which are receiving hundreds of millions of dollars from the EU and European governments. The recent reports from the Israel’s Ministry of Strategic Affairs paint an alarming picture of how terrorist organizations like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) are actively and intentionally using Palestinian NGOs to collect funds and promote goals of internationally recognized terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian law does not allow any affiliation between NGOs and political parties.
Click to expand...

Law abiding Islamic terrorists. 

Now that's funny.


----------



## Hollie

Majdi Elwan had no explanation for his illegal, unpermitted construction.


----------



## Hollie

The anti gee-had forces were operating in the mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan.











						Female Soldier Lightly Injured during Counter-Terrorism Op
					

The female soldier was injured by a rock thrown at her while she was conducting a counter-terrorism operation to locate illegal weapons.




					www.jewishpress.com
				





Israeli forces operating in the Palestinian Authority (PA) city of Qalqilya on Tuesday night exposed and confiscated a machine used for the illegal production of weapons.

Arab rioters attacked the forces with rocks and firebombs when they entered and exited the area, and the Israeli forces responded by using means to disperse demonstrations.


In recent years, Israeli forces have shut down dozens of weapons production plants in the Judea and Samaria regions and have seized thousands of illegal weapons.


----------



## Hollie

A truly dangerous Cult.










						AK47s and rocks for kids promoted on PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

A children’s program on official PA TV that commemorated the late cartoonist Naji Al-Ali showed a selection of his cartoons, several of which promoted violence to kids.




					palwatch.org
				





*AK47s and rocks for kids promoted on PA TV*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 4, 2020





A children’s program on official PA TV that commemorated the late cartoonist Naji Al-Ali showed a selection of his cartoons, several of which promoted violence to kids.
The cartoonist was famous among Palestinians for having invented the cartoon characters “Handala” a boy who symbolizes the Palestinian refugee, and the woman Fatima. The cartoon above shows Fatima offering an AK47 automatic rifle to Handala.





Another cartoon showed Fatima with roots growing out below her dress connecting her to the ground, handing out rocks to children, including Handala. On the right, a girl is throwing a rock at an Israeli/Jew with a large nose and a Star of David on his hat who is covering his head.
The girl narrator on the program explained that Fatima symbolizes the strong Palestinian women:


> *Official PA TV narrator girl*: “Naji [Al-Ali] invented the character of Handala, who was in his drawings regularly and represents a 10-year-old boy who turns his back to the viewers… Naji had another character who returned again and again in his drawings as the figure of the Palestinian woman, whom Naji called Fatima. She is a character who is not humiliated. Her vision is very clear on everything regarding the cause and the way to resolve it.”
> [Official PA TV, From My Country, July 22, 2020]


----------



## Levant

There's no such thing as a modern Palestinian.  They're arabs.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> The Israeli military confirmed that it attacked targets in the northern Gaza Strip late Thursday night after Palestinian terrorists launched explosive balloons from the territory into Israel.


 
The Israelis are the most raciest people on this planet.  In the Bible God chose them to follow His instructions and by doing so they would prosper and multiply abundantly. If they failed to follow His instructions they would be no more remembered.

The Israelis chose their own path by murdering Palestinian children in the most cruel and disgusting ways.

The path they have chosen has sealed their fate & within our lifetime, they will be no more remembered.

*The US must NOT give the
Israelis a dime*
*or the guns to murder more Palestinian people.*

They should be chastised by the world and removed from the UN.

This disgusting parasite needs to be rejected and scorned until they repent.

They need to ask the Lord for forgiveness for their sins & if not their end is near.

This is just my opinion based on decades of FACTS that cannot be denied

*Repent or perish
The choice is theirs alone to make*​-


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Target killing of children*

Targeted killing is defined as a form of assassination carried by governments against their perceived enemies. Analysts believe it to be a modern euphemism for the assassination (prominent premeditated killing) of an individual by a state organization or institution *outside a judicial procedure or a battlefield**.*


Since the late 20th century, the legal status of targeted killing has become a subject of contention within and between various nations. Historically, at least since the mid-eighteenth century, *Western thinking has generally considered the use of assassination as a tool of statecraft to be illegal.* 

Some twenty-six members of Congress, with academics such as Gregory Johnsen and Charles Schmitz, media figures (Jeremy Scahill, Glenn Greenwald, James Traub), civil rights groups (i.e. the American Civil Liberties Union) and ex-CIA station chief in Islamabad, Robert Grenier, have criticized *targeted killings as a form of extrajudicial killings, which may be illegal within the United States* *and possibly under international law.*










						Targeted killing - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





The official history of the civilian is that since the codification of the laws of armed conflict in the Hague and Geneva Conventions, *civilians are increasingly recognized and protected by international law**.* Armed forces publicly declare the importance of protecting, sparing, and liberating civilians. For example, the insistence of the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) that the deaths of Palestinian civilians are due to Hamas’ use of civilians as human shields is, *while factually not true*, evidence of the persistence of the norm that to kill civilians is to fail as a soldier.
http://criticallegalthinking.com/2014/07/28/civilians-combatants-histories-international-law/


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Facts Cannot Be Denied*​

*Google "IDF shooting children"*
 - UNICEF warns of excessive use of force, particularly in relation to incidents where Palestinian children were shot dead. ... the example on October 25 in Hebron in the West Bank of a 17-year-old girl who was "taken by IDF (Israel Defence Forces) soldiers for a search, shot with at least five bullets and killed".

*2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade | News | Al ...*
www.aljazeera.com/.../2016-deadliest-year-west-bank-children-decade-17010314502...

 - UNICEF cited the example on October 25 in Hebron in the West Bank of a 17-year-old girl who was "taken by IDF (Israel Defence Forces) soldiers for a search, shot with at least five bullets and killed". "Israeli authorities said that she had attempted to stab a policeman, however an eyewitness stated that she ...

*Israeli shoots dead Palestinian after group of children comes under ...*

Israeli shoots dead Palestinian after group of children comes under attack
- Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.

*Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months | News | Al Jazeera*
www.aljazeera.com/.../israel-killed-25-palestinian-children-months-16051414083314...

*12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
*IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
*http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*

*UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
*An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach.,.* *by IDF gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit  a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

*10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head* by Israeli fire while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary

Girl's School On June 1 this year *two ten-year old children* in UNRWA's
Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School  in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank

*12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head* by a bullet fired *Two 10 year-old schoolchildren* were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an *Israeli tank fired into their classroom.*
Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room. (this was an assassination of specific children by the IDF)
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot* *by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/
* Three-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails
*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords
*Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die*
The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm
Haneen, who was *eight years old, had been shot twice in the head* by an Israeli soldier as she walked down the street in Khan Yunis refugee camp with her mother.
 She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
'Mother, mother'. *Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other*.
*She was still in my arms and she died."*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1007051,00.html

*This boy* was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and *shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy  fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1112055,00.html

*Israel Baby is born then dies*
 Birth and death at the checkpoint
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html

*Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy*
Siege off Nablus
*15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house.* The sniper bulet hit Amjad in the back.  He died on his way to the hospital. The *second is  Amer Kathym Arafat who was also shot* in the back by a sniper bullet. The *third is Rouhi Hazem Shouman, 25, who was also shot in the* back by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

*Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head *while buying candy with her friends.
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

15 year old boy &  Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all *shot in the back* *by a sniper.*
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

 An *eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* *by Israeli troops* in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

*IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets*  and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

“*I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." *


----------



## Hollie

watchingfromafar said:


> *Target killing of children*
> 
> Targeted killing is defined as a form of assassination carried by governments against their perceived enemies. Analysts believe it to be a modern euphemism for the assassination (prominent premeditated killing) of an individual by a state organization or institution *outside a judicial procedure or a battlefield**.*
> 
> 
> Since the late 20th century, the legal status of targeted killing has become a subject of contention within and between various nations. Historically, at least since the mid-eighteenth century, *Western thinking has generally considered the use of assassination as a tool of statecraft to be illegal.*
> 
> Some twenty-six members of Congress, with academics such as Gregory Johnsen and Charles Schmitz, media figures (Jeremy Scahill, Glenn Greenwald, James Traub), civil rights groups (i.e. the American Civil Liberties Union) and ex-CIA station chief in Islamabad, Robert Grenier, have criticized *targeted killings as a form of extrajudicial killings, which may be illegal within the United States* *and possibly under international law.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Targeted killing - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The official history of the civilian is that since the codification of the laws of armed conflict in the Hague and Geneva Conventions, *civilians are increasingly recognized and protected by international law**.* Armed forces publicly declare the importance of protecting, sparing, and liberating civilians. For example, the insistence of the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) that the deaths of Palestinian civilians are due to Hamas’ use of civilians as human shields is, *while factually not true*, evidence of the persistence of the norm that to kill civilians is to fail as a soldier.
> http://criticallegalthinking.com/2014/07/28/civilians-combatants-histories-international-law/


A true indictment of Pal-Arabs.


----------



## Hollie

Allah’s killers. 

*PA home videos: Children are taught to see murderers as “heroes”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 3, 2020




Remember home videos that people would make and submit to be shown on TV?
In the PA, home videos are being used to teach children to see murderers as “heroes”!

On a PA TV show for kids, _O Children of Our Neighborhood_, two such home videos were broadcast, showing very young kids addressing the “heroic prisoners.” Holding a framed poster of terrorist Anas Allan who is serving 4 life sentences for his involvement in the murder of 4 Israelis, two girls likened the imprisoned terrorists to “tall mountains” and “lions.” A young boy specifically mentioned murderer Allan, sending “love” to all prisoners:


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists will now get “credit” for their acts of Islamic terrorism.




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/07/15/following-flawed-report-us-to-publish-new-figures-on-palestinian-terrorism/
		



In the wake of an Israel Hayom report showing that the State Department was incorrectly tallying the number of Palestinian terrorist incidents in the Israel 2019 Human Rights Report it published several months ago, the US government said it would amend the document.


US Congressmen Doug Lamborn and David B. McKinley had pressed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo afterIsrael Hayom reported the errors, which were based on UN figures.

According to that report, published in March, Palestinians committed 101 acts of violence against Israeli civilians in the West Bank, "primarily stonethrowing ."

However, the number of incidents recorded by the Israel Defense Forces and the Shin Bet security agency for 2019 is much higher. The IDF reported that over the course of 2019, there were 290 incidents of Palestinians throwing Molotov cocktails at Israelis and 1,469 stonethrowing incidents. The Shin Bet reported a total of 1,327 Palestinian terrorist acts for 2019.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, dears. No one represents them.


----------



## Hollie

*House Ethics Committee Finds Rashida Tlaib Guilty of Violating Campaign Finance Law*
Posted at 7:00 pm on August 7, 2020 by Nick Arama

*








						House Ethics Committee Finds Rashida Tlaib Guilty of Violating Campaign Finance Law
					

Busted...




					www.redstate.com
				



*


----------



## watchingfromafar

Hollie said:


> House Ethics Committee Finds Rashida Tlaib Guilty of Violating Campaign Finance Law



If you are a republicon winning is all that matters even if you welcome the devil in your home for moral support
Wait; the article is from the "RedState", what is there left to say-?
-


----------



## Hollie

The loosely defined geographic area sometimes called “Palestine” to be called “The Area Formerly Controlled by the Ottoman Turks”, now the State of Israel. 










						Google, Apple ‘erasing Palestine’ from geographic apps - activists
					

Cyber-activist accuses US, Israeli governments of being behind efforts to ‘remove Palestinians from map of future'.




					m.jpost.com
				




A campaign launched by an Instagram account called “Astagfirvlah,” also spelled “Astagfirollah,” accuses Google and Apple of “officially removing” Palestine from their maps.


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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

House Ethics Committee orders Tlaib to repay $10,800 to campaign after 2018 violation
					

Rep. Rashida Tlaib has been ordered to repay $10,800 to her campaign committee to account for the salary she had paid herself from her campaign coffers after she had been elected to Congress in 2018.




					www.foxnews.com
				





Rep. Rashida Tlaib has been ordered to repay $10,800 to her campaign committee to account for the salary she had paid herself from her campaign coffers after she had been elected to Congress in 2018.


The bipartisan House Ethics Committee found the Michigan Democrat’s violation “was one of bad timing and not ill intent." The committee ordered her to pay $10,800 of the $17,500 she received from her campaign in 2018. Congressional candidates are allowed to draw paychecks from their campaigns, but payments are only allowed during an active candidacy.


----------



## Hollie

Shocker! Islamic terrorists won’t stop being Islamic terrorists. 










						Why Palestinian terrorism continues to plague us amid the pandemic
					

Neither Fatah nor Hamas appear to be grateful for the life-saving assistance that they received from the Jewish state.




					www.jns.org
				




(June 28, 2020 / JNS) During the coronavirus crisis, Israel has devoted great resources to helping the Palestinian Authority and the people of Gaza fight the pandemic. Nevertheless, the increased need for Israeli humanitarian assistance has not led to a decline in Palestinian Arab obstinacy, terrorism and incitement to violence. Recently, P.A. leader Mahmoud Abbas ended all security coordination with the State of Israel, despite the threat that the pandemic and Hamas pose to his society.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: I think this is completely realistic labeling.








Hollie said:


> The loosely defined geographic area sometimes called “Palestine” to be called “The Area Formerly Controlled by the Ottoman Turks”, now the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google, Apple ‘erasing Palestine’ from geographic apps - activists
> 
> 
> Cyber-activist accuses US, Israeli governments of being behind efforts to ‘remove Palestinians from map of future'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A campaign launched by an Instagram account called “Astagfirvlah,” also spelled “Astagfirollah,” accuses Google and Apple of “officially removing” Palestine from their maps.


*(COMMENT)*

We are not worried about historical data when you are looking for practical near real-time data.  Sovereign territory or controlled area, in this case, telling you where the historic "Palestine" or the political non-sovereign, or disputed territory is located gives you what practical information for today?  What lines or labels should be changed that would make it any more realistic or practical _(reflecting the reality of today)_?

The boundary makings reflect what is the practical reality.

Today we say Israel, The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip.  Palestine is undefined.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I think this is completely realistic labeling.
> 
> View attachment 372632​
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The loosely defined geographic area sometimes called “Palestine” to be called “The Area Formerly Controlled by the Ottoman Turks”, now the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google, Apple ‘erasing Palestine’ from geographic apps - activists
> 
> 
> Cyber-activist accuses US, Israeli governments of being behind efforts to ‘remove Palestinians from map of future'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A campaign launched by an Instagram account called “Astagfirvlah,” also spelled “Astagfirollah,” accuses Google and Apple of “officially removing” Palestine from their maps.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are not worried about historical data when you are looking for practical near real-time data.  Sovereign territory or controlled area, in this case, telling you where the historic "Palestine" or the political non-sovereign, or disputed territory is located gives you what practical information for today?  What lines or labels should be changed that would make it any more realistic or practical _(reflecting the reality of today)_?
> 
> The boundary makings reflect what is the practical reality.
> 
> Today we say Israel, The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip.  Palestine is undefined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Agree, Rocco. I think the term ''Palestine'' tends to be used by those looking to press a politico-religious agenda and hoping to appeal to emotion.  The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip are identifiers that people better relate to.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I think this is completely realistic labeling.
> 
> View attachment 372632​
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The loosely defined geographic area sometimes called “Palestine” to be called “The Area Formerly Controlled by the Ottoman Turks”, now the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google, Apple ‘erasing Palestine’ from geographic apps - activists
> 
> 
> Cyber-activist accuses US, Israeli governments of being behind efforts to ‘remove Palestinians from map of future'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A campaign launched by an Instagram account called “Astagfirvlah,” also spelled “Astagfirollah,” accuses Google and Apple of “officially removing” Palestine from their maps.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are not worried about historical data when you are looking for practical near real-time data.  Sovereign territory or controlled area, in this case, telling you where the historic "Palestine" or the political non-sovereign, or disputed territory is located gives you what practical information for today?  What lines or labels should be changed that would make it any more realistic or practical _(reflecting the reality of today)_?
> 
> The boundary makings reflect what is the practical reality.
> 
> Today we say Israel, The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip.  Palestine is undefined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree, Rocco. I think the term ''Palestine'' tends to be used by those looking to press a politico-religious agenda and hoping to appeal to emotion.  The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip are identifiers that people better relate to.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip are identifiers that people better relate to.


That is changing.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



That's awful!
Don't they know only Palestinians are allowed to commit racist attacks?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I think this is completely realistic labeling.
> 
> View attachment 372632​
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The loosely defined geographic area sometimes called “Palestine” to be called “The Area Formerly Controlled by the Ottoman Turks”, now the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google, Apple ‘erasing Palestine’ from geographic apps - activists
> 
> 
> Cyber-activist accuses US, Israeli governments of being behind efforts to ‘remove Palestinians from map of future'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A campaign launched by an Instagram account called “Astagfirvlah,” also spelled “Astagfirollah,” accuses Google and Apple of “officially removing” Palestine from their maps.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are not worried about historical data when you are looking for practical near real-time data.  Sovereign territory or controlled area, in this case, telling you where the historic "Palestine" or the political non-sovereign, or disputed territory is located gives you what practical information for today?  What lines or labels should be changed that would make it any more realistic or practical _(reflecting the reality of today)_?
> 
> The boundary makings reflect what is the practical reality.
> 
> Today we say Israel, The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip.  Palestine is undefined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree, Rocco. I think the term ''Palestine'' tends to be used by those looking to press a politico-religious agenda and hoping to appeal to emotion.  The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip are identifiers that people better relate to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank, Jerusalem and The Gaza Strip are identifiers that people better relate to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is changing.
Click to expand...

No, it’s not.


----------



## Hollie

What a shame that Gaza and the West Bank won’t accept Pal-Arabs from Lebanon. 





__





						Beirut's blasts to sink Lebanon's Palestine refugees further into despair: UN official  - Xinhua | English.news.cn
					





					www.xinhuanet.com
				




BEIRUT, Aug. 8 (Xinhua) -- A UN official warned on Saturday that the aftermath of the explosions at Port of Beirut will sink the vulnerable communities, especially the Palestinian refugees, further into despair.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose it was to be expected. The supermarket tabloid otherwise known as the PA Daily is looking for a reason to implicate _The Zionists_™️ in the Beirut explosion. 


*Israel behind Beirut explosion – PA daily op-ed*









						Israel behind Beirut explosion – PA daily op-ed | PMW Analysis
					

Israel's raison d’etre is the destruction of the Arab nation




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 10, 2020

*Israel's raison d’etre is the destruction of the Arab nation*
As with past catastrophes befalling the Arab world (or even the world in general) not much time passed before a writer at the official PA daily accused Israel of being behind the explosion in Beirut that cost the lives of more than 150 Lebanese and wounded over 5,000 last week.

Ignoring the fact that Lebanon has already announced that it was improperly stored ammonium nitrate in Beirut’s port that caused the explosion, regular columnist Bassem Barhoum was quick to libel Israel as being behind it. And the proof? “This is what [Israel] exists for - to destroy the [Arab] nation.” In other words, it is simply Israel's raison d’etre to kill Arabs:


> *“We… do not rule out the possibility that Israel had a hand in this catastrophe since this is what it exists for – to destroy the [Arab] nation and any chance of its revival.”*
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 6, 2020]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel is criticized for allowing Palestinians to go to the beach. Then it is criticized for NOT allowing Palestinians to go to the beach.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.









						Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
					

More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.

More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel


----------



## Hollie

A “big get” for Israel that was a long time coming. 










						Shin Bet arrests Palestinian suspected of deadly 2010 terrorist attack along Gaza border
					

Abdallah Daghmeh, 38, was charged with involvement in the murder of IDF Maj. Eliraz Peretz and Staff Sgt. Ilan Sviatkovsky 10 years ago.The post Shin Bet arrests Palestinian suspected of




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				





The Shin Bet announced on Sunday the arrest last month of one of the Palestinian terrorists suspected of involvement in the 2010 attack along the Gaza border that killed Israel Defense Forces Maj. Eliraz Peretz and Staff Sgt. Ilan Sviatkovsky.

According to Israel’s _Kan News_, Abdallah Daghmeh, 38, was indicted in the Beersheva District Court and charged with murdering Peretz and Sviatkovsky, as well as operating and belonging to a terrorist organization.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel


How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
Click to expand...

What wrong thing?

Your silly one-liners are incoherent.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What wrong thing?
> 
> Your silly one-liners are incoherent.
Click to expand...

For 20 years Israel has been trying to stop attacks out of Gaza. 

How long does it take to realize that you are failing?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What wrong thing?
> 
> Your silly one-liners are incoherent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For 20 years Israel has been trying to stop attacks out of Gaza.
> 
> How long does it take to realize that you are failing?
Click to expand...

So... you're suggesting that Israel should not respond to Islamic terrorist attacks? 

On the other hand, the gee-had waged by the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank has failed. Israel is thriving while Gaza and the West Bank survive on welfare payments. 

How's that working out for you?


----------



## Hollie

It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young. 


*PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*










						PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
					

"Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"




					palwatch.org
				




Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
_






Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
*Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).

Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arabs and keeping alive the spirit of the Hitler Youth. 












						UNRWA’s Message of Hate and Indoctrination
					

Palestinian schoolchildren sit inside a classroom at an UNRWA-run school, on the first day of a new school year, in …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




According to Dr. Arnon Groiss, whose research on the subject spans 18 years, the most recent set of books published in 2016/2018 are even more radical than their predecessors. According to him, a curriculum of hatred permeates all subject matter, from elementary arithmetic to high school social studies and science. Martyrdom is glorified, the Jews’ historical connection to their biblical homeland is rejected, and contemporary maps of the region omit the existence of the UN member state of Israel. Jews are demonized and terrorist/jihad concepts are woven into songs, plays, and academia.

This phenomenon of a society indoctrinating children is eerily similar to that of the Hitler Youth. The Nazis employed propaganda, hate-filled rhetoric, rabid antisemitism, paramilitary training, and the concept of self-sacrifice for the cause in order to ensure that there would be a crop of new young soldiers at the ready to feed the Third Reich. To quote Hitler, “He alone who owns the youth gains the future.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What wrong thing?
> 
> Your silly one-liners are incoherent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For 20 years Israel has been trying to stop attacks out of Gaza.
> 
> How long does it take to realize that you are failing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... you're suggesting that Israel should not respond to Islamic terrorist attacks?
> 
> On the other hand, the gee-had waged by the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank has failed. Israel is thriving while Gaza and the West Bank survive on welfare payments.
> 
> How's that working out for you?
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*


OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

It is a matter of opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal-Arabs and keeping alive the spirit of the Hitler Youth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA’s Message of Hate and Indoctrination
> 
> 
> Palestinian schoolchildren sit inside a classroom at an UNRWA-run school, on the first day of a new school year, in …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Dr. Arnon Groiss, whose research on the subject spans 18 years, the most recent set of books published in 2016/2018 are even more radical than their predecessors. According to him, a curriculum of hatred permeates all subject matter, from elementary arithmetic to high school social studies and science. Martyrdom is glorified, the Jews’ historical connection to their biblical homeland is rejected, and contemporary maps of the region omit the existence of the UN member state of Israel. Jews are demonized and terrorist/jihad concepts are woven into songs, plays, and academia.
> 
> This phenomenon of a society indoctrinating children is eerily similar to that of the Hitler Youth. The Nazis employed propaganda, hate-filled rhetoric, rabid antisemitism, paramilitary training, and the concept of self-sacrifice for the cause in order to ensure that there would be a crop of new young soldiers at the ready to feed the Third Reich. To quote Hitler, “He alone who owns the youth gains the future.”


IOW, they do not teach Israel's propaganda crap.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas launches missiles toward the sea ‘in warning to Israel’
					

Hamas's message was that the calm along the border with the Gaza Strip won’t last.




					www.jpost.com
				





P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What wrong thing?
> 
> Your silly one-liners are incoherent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For 20 years Israel has been trying to stop attacks out of Gaza.
> 
> How long does it take to realize that you are failing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... you're suggesting that Israel should not respond to Islamic terrorist attacks?
> 
> On the other hand, the gee-had waged by the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank has failed. Israel is thriving while Gaza and the West Bank survive on welfare payments.
> 
> How's that working out for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

Between their silly fashion parades when Hamas clowns dress up in military uniforms and shooting missiles into the sea, they’re a laughable joke. 









						Hamas launches missiles toward the sea ‘in warning to Israel’
					

Hamas's message was that the calm along the border with the Gaza Strip won’t last.




					m.jpost.com
				





Hamas fired several missiles toward the Mediterranean Sea on Monday morning in a warning to Israel that calm along the border with the Gaza Strip will not last.

The rockets, at least eight of them, were a “message” to Israel that armed groups “would not remain silent” in the face of the continued blockade and “aggression,” a source close to Hamas was quoted as saying by AFP.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
Click to expand...


Such silly slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such silly slogans.
Click to expand...

Such a silly accusation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a silly accusation.
Click to expand...

What accusation?


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem cartoons.

*Fatah glorifies Palestinian violence and rioting in Jerusalem*
Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, Facebook  | Aug 6, 2017


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a silly accusation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What accusation?
Click to expand...

That juvenile terrorist name calling crap.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Jordan?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a silly accusation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What accusation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That juvenile terrorist name calling crap.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## Hollie

Another quickly forgotten Islamic terrorist. 

*Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled”*





__





						Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” | PMW Analysis
					

The terrorist who led the terror cell that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, a father of six, in a drive-by shooting, is the newest Palestinian hero.




					palwatch.org
				




Terrorist Jarrar was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers while resisting arrest near Jenin on Feb. 6, 2018.


----------



## Hollie

I didn’t expect an EU representative to find such a backbone. 










						EU official urges probe ensuring no funds benefit Palestinian terror backers
					

Official in charge of relations with EU's neighbors tells bloc's envoys to Israel, Palestinian Authority 'to look deep' because 'if there is any concern, we will act immediately'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





A senior European Union official on Tuesday said he asked the bloc’s representatives in Israel and the Palestinian territories to investigate whether any EU funds are benefiting terrorists or their supporters.

“We have received a number of requests from the Israeli authorities in that regard, also from the public in Israel. I took immediate action, I asked both the heads of delegations in Tel Aviv but also in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, to look into the matter,” Olivér Várhelyi, the EU Commissioner for Neighbourhood and Enlargement, said during a meeting of the European Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a silly accusation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What accusation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That juvenile terrorist name calling crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
Click to expand...

Children don't bother me.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I didn’t expect an EU representative to find such a backbone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU official urges probe ensuring no funds benefit Palestinian terror backers
> 
> 
> Official in charge of relations with EU's neighbors tells bloc's envoys to Israel, Palestinian Authority 'to look deep' because 'if there is any concern, we will act immediately'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A senior European Union official on Tuesday said he asked the bloc’s representatives in Israel and the Palestinian territories to investigate whether any EU funds are benefiting terrorists or their supporters.
> 
> “We have received a number of requests from the Israeli authorities in that regard, also from the public in Israel. I took immediate action, I asked both the heads of delegations in Tel Aviv but also in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, to look into the matter,” Olivér Várhelyi, the EU Commissioner for Neighbourhood and Enlargement, said during a meeting of the European Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee.


Is Israel still shoveling that shit?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t expect an EU representative to find such a backbone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU official urges probe ensuring no funds benefit Palestinian terror backers
> 
> 
> Official in charge of relations with EU's neighbors tells bloc's envoys to Israel, Palestinian Authority 'to look deep' because 'if there is any concern, we will act immediately'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A senior European Union official on Tuesday said he asked the bloc’s representatives in Israel and the Palestinian territories to investigate whether any EU funds are benefiting terrorists or their supporters.
> 
> “We have received a number of requests from the Israeli authorities in that regard, also from the public in Israel. I took immediate action, I asked both the heads of delegations in Tel Aviv but also in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, to look into the matter,” Olivér Várhelyi, the EU Commissioner for Neighbourhood and Enlargement, said during a meeting of the European Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel still shoveling that shit?
Click to expand...

The article deals with a EU representative?

Your programmed comments are silly.


----------



## Hollie

Oxfam faces $160 million legal threat over Palestine aid project
					

The US government is staying on the sidelines in the latest counter-terror case brought against non-profits working in Palestine. But five more filings are in the works.




					www.thenewhumanitarian.org
				





Oxfam faces a $160 million counter-terror claim in a New York court. The case, brought by a pro-Israel lawyer and activist, alleges that the NGO contravened US law during its work in the Palestinian territory of Gaza.

The lawyer behind the case told The New Humanitarian he has filed five other similar cases, which remain under seal in the US courts.

David Abrams, who runs the Zionist Advocacy Center, alleges that Oxfam’s work on an agriculture policy project in Gaza constituted “material support” to Hamas, a US-designated terrorist group.


----------



## Hollie

Israel Defense Forces

@IDF
·
Aug 3

Weapons & a bag containing explosives were found just meters from the Israeli security fence between #Israel and #Syria. Last night, 4 terrorists attempted to plant & use them. We stopped them before they could. We won’t allow any harm to Israel or our sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

Israel Defense Forces

@IDF
·
Aug 3

Israeli Air Force & 
@usairforce
 F-35 fighter jets completed the "Enduring Lightning 2" exercise over Israel yesterday. Following #COVID19 protocols, we trained to maintain aerial superiority & readiness in the region together. 







https://mobile.twitter.com/IDF/status/1290365324781592576/photo/3


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel Defense Forces
> @IDF
> ·
> Aug 3
> 
> Israeli Air Force &
> @usairforce
> F-35 fighter jets completed the "Enduring Lightning 2" exercise over Israel yesterday. Following #COVID19 protocols, we trained to maintain aerial superiority & readiness in the region together.


WOW, Israel sure can mooch a lot of stuff.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Defense Forces
> @IDF
> ·
> Aug 3
> 
> Israeli Air Force &
> @usairforce
> F-35 fighter jets completed the "Enduring Lightning 2" exercise over Israel yesterday. Following #COVID19 protocols, we trained to maintain aerial superiority & readiness in the region together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel sure can mooch a lot of stuff.
Click to expand...

Wow. You sure can announce your ignorance.


----------



## Hollie

PA Minister of Justice confirms that ICC has no jurisdiction over Israel | PMW Analysis
					

In a critical and timely confession, the Palestinian Authority’s Minister of Justice Dr. Muhammad Al-Shalaldeh has announced that the Palestinian Authority has never had legal jurisdiction over Israelis




					palwatch.org
				




In a critical and timely confession, the Palestinian Authority’s Minister of Justice Dr. Muhammad Al-Shalaldeh has announced that the Palestinian Authority has never had legal jurisdiction over Israelis, and accordingly, the International Criminal Court (ICC) likewise lacks jurisdiction to deal with Palestinian complaints against Israel.

The ICC is not a regular national criminal court. Rather, it works solely on the basis of “delegated jurisdiction.” Membership in the ICC is limited to “states,” whose national jurisdiction could be delegated, in given circumstances, to the ICC.

While the Prosecutor of the ICC, Fatou Bensouda, has used unfounded legal acrobatics in order to invent a “State of Palestine,” she completely ignored the fact that this so-called “state”, known as the Palestinian Authority, lacks any criminal jurisdiction over Israelis. The old maxim declares “nemo dat quod non habet” - “no one gives what they do not have.” Since the PA has no jurisdiction over Israelis, it cannot delegate that jurisdiction to the ICC.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such silly slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a silly accusation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What accusation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That juvenile terrorist name calling crap.
Click to expand...


What should Palestinian terrorists be called?
So you don't cry?
You're very delicate.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



That's awful!
I hear there is plenty of space to build....in Syria.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When people say or write things, they should try to avoid contradicting themselves on a factual or logical basis. This is the essence of the “Liar’s Paradox.”

This lesson was lost on the folks at Foreign Policy (FP), who published a piece by Palestinian activist Zena Agha titled “Israel Can’t Hide Evidence of Its Occupation Anymore.” The piece, which appeared on FP’s website on August 3, 2020, contradicts itself in a pretty obvious way.

(full article online)









						Another Anti-Israel Lie Pushed by Palestinian Activist
					

The House of Representatives Building and the East Portico of the US Capitol. Photo: Flickr. When people say or write …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> When people say or write things, they should try to avoid contradicting themselves on a factual or logical basis. This is the essence of the “Liar’s Paradox.”
> 
> This lesson was lost on the folks at Foreign Policy (FP), who published a piece by Palestinian activist Zena Agha titled “Israel Can’t Hide Evidence of Its Occupation Anymore.” The piece, which appeared on FP’s website on August 3, 2020, contradicts itself in a pretty obvious way.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Anti-Israel Lie Pushed by Palestinian Activist
> 
> 
> The House of Representatives Building and the East Portico of the US Capitol. Photo: Flickr. When people say or write …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com


Whining and lying, the only two things Palestinians are good at.


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


You might want to dump your Twitter feeds in the correct forum.


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## Hollie

https://palwatch.org/page/
		


*MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ comission to be designated as terrorist – in response to PMW report*
ZACHARY KEYSER  | Aug 11, 2020

Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government…

“I call on you to add the Palestinian Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to the List of Declared Prohibited and Terror Organizations. It is an organization whose very nature is to support terror, to which we should show zero tolerance,” MK Elazar Stern wrote to Defense Minister Benny Gantz… MK Oded Forer said “the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense must act immediately to… ensure that the Palestinian Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs be declared an illegal terrorist organization.”


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to dump your Twitter feeds in the correct forum.
Click to expand...

What is incorrect?


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## Sixties Fan

*Gaza residents holding Egyptian passports and foreign passports, as well as patients seeking treatment abroad, are permitted to exit the enclave via Rafah terminal*










						Egypt-Gaza crossing opens, allowing Palestinians to leave for 1st time in months
					

Gaza residents holding Egyptian passports and foreign passports, as well as patients seeking treatment abroad, are permitted to exit the enclave via Rafah terminal




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to dump your Twitter feeds in the correct forum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is incorrect?
Click to expand...

Wrong forum.


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## Hollie

Islamic terrorists representing _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., West Bank Syndicate, Enclave of Mahmoud’istan,_ are ramping up their Islamo-bluster.

Rock chucking welfare fraud recipients. 

*Fatah's threat: “The day you extend your hand, we’ll cut it off”*









						Fatah's threat: “The day you extend your hand, we’ll cut it off” | PMW Analysis
					

“We’ll redeem the land with spirit and blood… We are the owners here”




					palwatch.org
				



Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 12, 2020

*“We’ll redeem the land with spirit and blood… We are the owners here”*
*“If we ignite a war… O Zionist, prepare to suffer”*
*“We’ll sacrifice our souls, we don't care… Our land is more precious than life”*
What better way to carry your message across than a catchy tune, right? The PA and Fatah know this and have been using music videos for years to disseminate hate and terror messages to Palestinians.

In this music video produced by Fatah, Abbas’ party threatens Israel that Palestinians will “obliterate” “whoever approaches my land” should Israel apply Israeli law to the Jordan Valley and the Jewish towns in the West Bank. In the words of the song: If Israel “extends its hand” to take Palestinian land, that hand will be “cut off.” Fatah promises to “redeem the land with spirit and blood” and “sacrifice souls” while making the “Zionist suffer.” Fatah added another favorite message as well: That “Palestine” is more “precious” than life itself. These messages are accompanied by scenes of violence and riots:


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## Hollie

One of the many Islamic terrorist franchises invented by the Pal-Arabs is something called the PLO. It’s an entity that exists on letterhead but has no practical purpose other than to extort welfare money from the international community.  The original goal of the PLO was the “liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. It was, and is, just another front group of Islamic terrorist misfits.










						PLO appeals for UN to protect Palestine refugees, support UNRWA
					

The Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) has appealed to the UN to protect Palestinian refugees and support the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), Al-Quds Al-Arabi repo...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





The Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) has appealed to the UN to protect Palestinian refugees and support the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), _Al-Quds Al-Arabi_ reported yesterday.

The appeal included a call for the UN to afford “urgent and tangible” protection for Palestinian refugees in light of the coronavirus outbreak based on its mandate and in accordance with WHO standards.

The PLO reiterated that such protection and support “must” continue until a solution for the issue of the refugees is found based on Resolution 194.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
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> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> You might want to dump your Twitter feeds in the correct forum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong forum.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with it?

Who are the Palestinians? 

Rania Khalek is a Palestinian.


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## Sixties Fan

https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/08/12/hamas-shoots-israel-reacts-and-the-qataris-pay/


----------



## Hollie

Maybe it’s just me but these pious Moslems seem really angry.

Palestinian Imam in Al-Aqsa Address: May Allah Kill All Infidels, Cleanse Al-Aqsa of the Jews' Filth


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## Hollie

I suppose Islamic terrorist enclaves have an advantage over something like a “country of Pal’istan”. An Islamic terrorist “country” would be subject to retaliation for acts of war on a much broader scale. 











						Israel closes Gaza crossing after Palestinians launch incendiary balloons
					

Israel on Tuesday closed one of its main border crossings with the Gaza Strip after Palestinians launched incendiary balloons that set fire to areas on the Israeli frontier.




					www.reuters.com
				





JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel on Tuesday closed one of its main border crossings with the Gaza Strip after Palestinians launched incendiary balloons that set fire to areas on the Israeli frontier. 

Israeli media reported that more than 30 fires were set around border communities by balloons carrying incendiary devices launched from Gaza. 

“Kerem Shalom Crossing will be closed for the passage of all goods, with the exception of the entry of essential humanitarian equipment and fuel,” Israel’s Defence Ministry said in a statement.


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## Hollie

I’m not clear on where this “Palestine” place is located. However, quite obviously there are no elections to be had in the mini-caliphates of Gaza and the West Bank.

Caliphates did not typically have elections to decide their respective dictators. Ba dum bump....cymbals. 



*Riyad al-Maliki: 'We are not having elections in Palestine, without having any in East Jerusalem'*


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists representing the Gaza enclave are in a snitty twitch over Israel’s response to the balloon gee-had.










						Israel Halts Fuel Shipments to Gaza Over Incendiary Balloon Launches - Hamodia.com
					

Israel on Thursday said it will stop shipments of fuel into Gaza in response to Palestinian terrorists launching incendiary balloons that have torched



					hamodia.com
				





*TEL AVIV/ GAZA* (Reuters) -
Israel on Thursday said it will stop shipments of fuel into Gaza in response to Palestinian terrorists launching incendiary balloons that have torched tracts of farmland on the Israeli frontier.

Palestinians in Islamist Hamas-ruled Gaza in recent days have launched dozens of helium balloons laden with incendiary material. Israel had earlier retaliated by closing the Strip’s main commercial crossing and striking Hamas military facilities with warplanes, attack helicopters and tanks.



Fawzi “_no gasoline for the gee-had_” Barhoum was indignant. Israel’s response to Islamic terrorist acts being an “act of aggression” didn’t sit well with the Gaza caliphate’ists.

“Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum called the measure a “grave act of aggression” that “aims to worsen the crisis of our people in the blockaded Strip.” The coastal enclave relies on Israel for most of its fuel and gas.”


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel really needs to stop its war.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
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> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...

What war?


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## Hollie

Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years" | PMW Analysis
					

“PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”




					palwatch.org
				




*Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years"*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Aug 14, 2020
Saudi owned _Asharq Al-Awsat:_

_“The campaign was launched by a right-wing Israeli organization "Palestinian Media Watch”…[which] has been working for more than 30 years against the PLO and the Palestinian Authority, claiming that they are running anti-Jewish policies, approaches and practices that support terrorism.”_
_“PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”_
Asharq Al-Awsat, a Saudi owned news outlet that is known for being a leading Arab daily newspaper, published an article describing the work of Palestinian Media Watch. In the article, special attention was given to PMW’s central role in the new initiative to have the Palestinian Authority funded Commission for Prisoners’ Affairs designated by the US administration as a “sponsor of terror,” and designated by the Israeli government as a “terror organization”.
The article cites PMW’s report which was adopted by Congressman Doug Lamborn in his letter to President Trump, recommending that the PA Head of the Prisoners’ Commission Qadri Abu Bakr and the Commission itself be designated as “sponsor of terror” in accordance with Executive Order 13224.

Following Lamborn’s letter, a number of MK’s similarly wrote to Israeli Defense Minister, Benjamin Gantz, calling on him to declare the Commission a terror organization.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years" | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years"*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Aug 14, 2020
> Saudi owned _Asharq Al-Awsat:_
> 
> _“The campaign was launched by a right-wing Israeli organization "Palestinian Media Watch”…[which] has been working for more than 30 years against the PLO and the Palestinian Authority, claiming that they are running anti-Jewish policies, approaches and practices that support terrorism.”_
> _“PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”_
> Asharq Al-Awsat, a Saudi owned news outlet that is known for being a leading Arab daily newspaper, published an article describing the work of Palestinian Media Watch. In the article, special attention was given to PMW’s central role in the new initiative to have the Palestinian Authority funded Commission for Prisoners’ Affairs designated by the US administration as a “sponsor of terror,” and designated by the Israeli government as a “terror organization”.
> The article cites PMW’s report which was adopted by Congressman Doug Lamborn in his letter to President Trump, recommending that the PA Head of the Prisoners’ Commission Qadri Abu Bakr and the Commission itself be designated as “sponsor of terror” in accordance with Executive Order 13224.
> 
> Following Lamborn’s letter, a number of MK’s similarly wrote to Israeli Defense Minister, Benjamin Gantz, calling on him to declare the Commission a terror organization.


More juvenile name calling.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years" | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years"*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Aug 14, 2020
> Saudi owned _Asharq Al-Awsat:_
> 
> _“The campaign was launched by a right-wing Israeli organization "Palestinian Media Watch”…[which] has been working for more than 30 years against the PLO and the Palestinian Authority, claiming that they are running anti-Jewish policies, approaches and practices that support terrorism.”_
> _“PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”_
> Asharq Al-Awsat, a Saudi owned news outlet that is known for being a leading Arab daily newspaper, published an article describing the work of Palestinian Media Watch. In the article, special attention was given to PMW’s central role in the new initiative to have the Palestinian Authority funded Commission for Prisoners’ Affairs designated by the US administration as a “sponsor of terror,” and designated by the Israeli government as a “terror organization”.
> The article cites PMW’s report which was adopted by Congressman Doug Lamborn in his letter to President Trump, recommending that the PA Head of the Prisoners’ Commission Qadri Abu Bakr and the Commission itself be designated as “sponsor of terror” in accordance with Executive Order 13224.
> 
> Following Lamborn’s letter, a number of MK’s similarly wrote to Israeli Defense Minister, Benjamin Gantz, calling on him to declare the Commission a terror organization.
> 
> 
> 
> More juvenile name calling.
Click to expand...

More of your usual spam.


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## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie




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## Hollie

It’s all date palms and camel’s milk In the competing mini-caliphates of Gaza and the West Bank.

Basically, the dictatorship ruling Gaza represents the worst form of Islamic dictatorship. The West Bank is the same. Hey, there’s a surprise.

Here’s the rundown.

With respect to Hamas: reports of unlawful or arbitrary killings, systematic torture, and arbitrary detention by Hamas officials; political prisoners; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; restrictions on free expression, the press, and the internet, including violence, threats of violence, unjustified arrests and prosecutions against journalists, censorship, site blocking, and the existence of criminal libel laws; substantial interference with the rights of peaceful assembly and freedom of association; restrictions on political participation, as there has been no national election since 2006; acts of corruption; violence and threats of violence motivated by anti-Semitism; unlawful recruitment and use of child soldiers; violence and threats of violence targeting LGBTI persons; the criminalization of consensual same-sex sexual conduct between adults; and forced or compulsory child labor.










						West Bank and Gaza - United States Department of State
					






					www.state.gov
				






What you might describe as one, long, Islamo-nightmare that has remained largely static since the 7th century.


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
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> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
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> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What wrong thing?
> 
> Your silly one-liners are incoherent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For 20 years Israel has been trying to stop attacks out of Gaza.
> 
> How long does it take to realize that you are failing?
Click to expand...


Maybe, you folks are just too used to having time on your side.

I bet you still sell the "what will happen when Arabs become a majority..."


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



In a regular apartment, just like all mortals?

Or better deported to one of their surrounding Jihadi shitholes

And by the sight of that mansion I'm sure they can BUY YOU an apartment or two.

*Let every Jihadi mother know the inevitable price of making a Jewish mother cry. *


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect sooner rather than later, the landscape in and around Gaza is going to be flatter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza
> 
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in 'message' to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli mayors demand action amid spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza.
> 
> More than a dozen fires in the south said started by Gaza balloons; Hamas also fires rockets into sea in ‘message’ to Israel
> 
> 
> 
> How long has Israel been doing the wrong thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What wrong thing?
> 
> Your silly one-liners are incoherent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For 20 years Israel has been trying to stop attacks out of Gaza.
> 
> How long does it take to realize that you are failing?
Click to expand...

I understand your desperation. Decades of Hamas Charters that achieved nothing, failed gee-had, Stateless, abandoned by Arab nations, failed marches to crash the Israeli border, forced to bend and scrape before the Shia Iranians and now, now of all things, the UAE making trade, tourism and a peace deal with Israel... it makes you want to jump in front of a speeding bus, right?

On the other hand, if Israel is forced to react to Islamic terrorist aggression, they could utterly devastate the Islamic terrorist presence in Gaza.


Oh the pain!









						Israel, UAE reach historic peace deal: ‘We can make a wonderful future’
					

Third-ever peace treaty between Israel and an Arab state includes embassies, direct flights; agreement “suspends” annexation, but Netanyahu says: “I will never give up on our right to our land.”




					m.jpost.com


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the West Bank are a bit miffed that another Arab nation has opened diplomatic ties with Israel. 


*How the world reacted to UAE, Israel normalising diplomatic ties*









						How the world reacted to UAE, Israel normalising diplomatic ties
					

Nations, groups and individual stakeholders in Israeli-Palestine conflict react to UAE and Israel normalising relations.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




In a statement issued by his spokesman, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas denounced the accord.


"The Palestinian leadership rejects and denounces the UAE, Israeli and US trilateral, surprising announcement," said Nabil Abu Rudeineh, a senior adviser to Abbas.

Abu Rudeineh, reading from a statement outside Abbas's headquarters in Ramallah in the occupied West Bank, said the deal was a "betrayal of Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and the Palestinian cause."

Hanan Ashrawi, an outspoken member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization's executive committee who has served in various leadership positions in Palestine, said the UAE's announcement was the equivalent of being "sold out" by "friends".


----------



## Hollie

I thought I read somewhere that the UAE had also agreed to converting Mahmoud’s presidential mansion in the West Bank into a Jewish Temple, although I could be wrong about that. 




			https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-uae-deal-condemned-by-palestinians-cheered-by-egypt-and-bahrain/2020/08/13/bc352be2-dd7c-11ea-b4f1-25b762cdbbf4_story.html
		


JERUSALEM — An announcement Thursday by the United Arab Emirates that it was pursuing formal ties with Israel was condemned by Palestinians as a betrayal by a putative Arab ally and a crushing setback to their national aspirations.


Bahrain and Egypt, two of the UAE’s closest regional allies, praised the agreement. Egyptian President Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, writing on Twitter, said it aimed to “stop Israel’s annexation of the Palestinian territories” and “achieve prosperity and stability for our region.”

Bahrain, which has signaled that it too is open to formal ties with Israel, said the UAE had shown “wise leadership” and taken a step “toward the achievement of peace in the Middle East.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The dynamic is now different. If the PLO can no longer rely on the Arab world to reflexively support it, it has to recalibrate its strategy. At the moment it has no leader with the foresight or the courage to do that. However, a prerequisite for any sort of peace is Israeli security – and Israel’s psychological security is as important as its physical security.  

If Israel feels like it is a part of the Middle East, and that it is a true ally with the Arab world, and if it knows that its Arab friends want peace more than they want to see Israel disappear,  it will be more willing to take chances for peace.

If the Palestinians realize that their strategy of relying on a solid wall of Arab support has failed, they will face a stark choice of becoming a vassal of Iran and becoming a mini-Syria or Lebanon, or choosing to do what is best for their own people. 

So far in their brief history, Palestinian leaders have consistently made the worst choices. I see no reason to think that is going to change. But this diplomatic lightning strike gives them the chance, at least, to wake up.

(full article online)









						Former Palestinian negotiator: UAE deal will HELP Palestinians
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

“Tel Aviv City Hall lit up with the flag of the United Arab Emirates”

Yep. Big enough to be seen from the West Bank.

Shifting alliances in that part of the world. Bahrain may be next to announce an (un)easy peace agreement with Israel. I have to think that as time goes on and mutually beneficial trade, business alliances, tourism, etc., expand, there will be greater incentives to maintain those relations.

Very positive for the region. 









						Israel-UAE deal leaves Palestinians more isolated than ever
					

Analysis: “May you never be sold out by your 'friends,'” veteran Palestinian politician Hanan Ashrawi tweeted in reaction to the announcement of the agreement.




					www.nbcnews.com
				









Tel Aviv City Hall lit up with the flag of the United Arab Emirates on Thursday after the UAE announced it was establishing full diplomatic ties with Israel.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit like adult reptiles eating their young.
> 
> 
> *PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*
> 
> 
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> PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> "Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*
> 
> 
> 
> OK,so? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
> 
> It is a matter of opinion.
Click to expand...

Thanks for showing us your true colours Tinmore. How Ian blowing yourself up in a cafe considered ‘freedom fighting’?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, no. Shock and dismay. 











						Palestinians unanimously reject UAE-Israel deal
					

All Palestinian factions, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, issued statements denouncing the UAE-Israel agreement.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




*Gaza City* - Palestinians reacted with shock and dismay after US President Donald Trump unveiled an agreement between the United Arab Emirates and Israel to normalise ties.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ toastman, et al,



toastman said:


> Thanks for showing us your true colours Tinmore. How Ian blowing yourself up in a cafe considered ‘freedom fighting’?


*(COMMENT)*

In certain circles, "suicide bomber" is a Synonym for "martyr."




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Oh, no. Shock and dismay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians unanimously reject UAE-Israel deal
> 
> 
> All Palestinian factions, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, issued statements denouncing the UAE-Israel agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza City* - Palestinians reacted with shock and dismay after US President Donald Trump unveiled an agreement between the United Arab Emirates and Israel to normalise ties.



Did anyone ask for their input?


----------



## Hollie

"...many Arab states, long rhetorically supportive of the Palestinians...''

Yes, how times have changed. While the Arabs-Moslems in Gaza and the West Bank have been a convenient tool for Arabs in the Middle East to use as a flail against Israel, the Arabs need Israel to counter Shia Iran. 

While Qatar has occasionally thrown suitcases of cash at Hamas, the last five (plus) years has shown that the Arab world has largely moved on to address regional threats from Iran and Pals have been left to be yesterday's news. 












						Palestine Is an Afterthought in the Latest Middle East Deal
					

The United Arab Emirates is embracing an Israel that has moved far to the right. Palestinian rights, the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict, are barely on the table.




					www.barrons.com
				




The Palestinians will probably never achieve statehood, and the newly formalized United Arab Emirates-Israel diplomatic relationship is neither the first nor the last acknowledgment of that sad truth. But regional developments continue to add nails to the proverbial coffin of Palestinian self-determination. The irony is that while support for Palestinian rights in the U.S. is slowly but steadily strengthening, many Arab states, long rhetorically supportive of the Palestinians, are now more openly embracing an Israel that has politically moved far to the right.


----------



## Hollie

__





						Yahoo Search - Web Search
					

The search engine that helps you find exactly what you\'re looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.




					in.news.yahoo.com
				










Ramallah [Palestine], August 14 (Sputnik/ANI): Palestine President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday denounced the agreement between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, his spokesperson said.




So there's that.



News sites are reporting that emails from Yassir Arafat have been circulating confirming his commitment to the Oslo Accords.


----------



## Hollie

There was a collective snicker and a congratulatory islamo-high five in Abu-Dhabi and the UAE.










						Palestine recalls ambassador to Abu Dhabi
					

Move comes after Israel, UAE agreed to normalize relations - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				













						Palestine recalls ambassador from UAE after it establishes diplomatic ties with Israel
					

The Palestinian ambassador to the UAE is being recalled over Abu Dhabi’s decision to establish diplomatic ties with Israel, which Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has called “treason.”




					www.rt.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:    Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I don't quite understand this at all.



Hollie said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo Search - Web Search
> 
> 
> The search engine that helps you find exactly what you\'re looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in.news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah [Palestine], August 14 (Sputnik/ANI): Palestine President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday denounced the agreement between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, his spokesperson said.


*(COMMENT)*

❖  What does the Ramallah Government gain by denouncing the advancement of better relations?​❖  What image is the Ramallah Government trying to project to the rest of the world?​
Is it not the policy of the UN Membership that "No State or group of States has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other State."

Is it not true that "States shall cooperate with other States in the maintenance of international peace and security."



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Play stupid games, win nothing but failure. 









						'It's a game and we lost': Palestinians decry Gulf moves towards Israel
					

Israel’s relationship with neighbours is no longer defined by occupation, Palestinians say




					www.theguardian.com
				




Israel’s relationship with neighbours is no longer defined by occupation, Palestinians say


----------



## watchingfromafar

I looked and looked and then looked once again and nowhere could "Israel" be found.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Some here refuse to believe “Palestine” exists so I googled it ~~~~~~~~~

*“Palestine”*

and this is what I found

*“Palestine”*

About 351,000,000 results (0.80 seconds)
*palestine - Google Search*​
*the truth will set you free
-*


----------



## P F Tinmore

watchingfromafar said:


> I looked and looked and then looked once again and nowhere could "Israel" be found.
> 
> View attachment 375425


Look for a 1948 map of Israel and you will come up empty.


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Palestine
Description*
*Palestine, recognized officially as the State of Palestine by the United Nations and other entities*, is a de jure sovereign state in Western Asia claiming the West Bank and Gaza Strip with Jerusalem as the designated capital, although its administrative center is currently located in Ramallah. Wikipedia
-


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked and looked and then looked once again and nowhere could "Israel" be found.
> 
> View attachment 375425
> 
> 
> 
> Look for a 1948 map of Israel and you will come up empty.
Click to expand...

*Look for a 1948 map of Israel and you will come up empty.*

Why bother with the 1948 map, the 1949 one is much bigger.





Look for the nation of Palestine.....still coming up empty.


----------



## watchingfromafar

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Look for the nation of Palestine.....still coming up empty.



Fake maps are easy enough to fabricate but the Holy Bible does not lie. God told the Jews what they must do to get His grace and they decided to murder to satisfy their evil ways instead.
It does not matter what you and I post here; the outcome is going to be the same





__





						Page 8
					





					www.universalknowledge.net
				



-


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

watchingfromafar said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look for the nation of Palestine.....still coming up empty.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you acclaim to be an expert on Israelite behavior, Please explain the following--
> thanks in advance
> * 9-11 hijackers*
> CNN.com - Hijackers conducted surveillance flights ahead of 9/11 - Sep. 27, 2002
> 
> Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, has confirmed that the *Israeli art students* were, in fact, part of *a major Israeli intelligence operation* and that they were *conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers*. They also worked with the Israeli Urban Moving System employees in New Jersey *who were seen* in at least two Jersey City locations -- Liberty State Park and The Doric apartment building -- *celebrating the impact of the first plane into the World Trade Center.*
> 
> The Israelis at Liberty State Park *were dressed in Arab-style clothing* *when they were witnessed celebrating the first attack.* The FBI later confiscated a videotape they filmed of the first attack.
> 
> *conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers*
> CNN.com - Hijackers conducted surveillance flights ahead of 9/11 - Sep. 27, 2002
> 
> It really looked like a demolition rather than collapsing buildings.
> Buildings coming down
> *https://tinyurl.com/yd5agtl5*
> -
Click to expand...


*Since you acclaim to be an expert on Israelite behavior, *

Where did I "acclaim" that? Link?

_Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, has confirmed that the *Israeli art students* were, in fact, part of *a major Israeli intelligence operation* and that they were *conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers*. _

They confirmed that? Where?

*It really looked like a demolition rather than collapsing buildings.*

Not really.


----------



## Hollie

Palestine Is More Of A Burnt Offering For The Neo-Ottoman Jihadist Agenda — Greek City Times
					

Naturally, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will claim he's standing up for Palestine, but in reality, this is just an expression of the war within the




					greekcitytimes.com
				





It serves Turkey for the Palestinians to suffer.

Why?

Because every setback for Palestine only vindicates Erdoğan’s preferred neo-Ottoman narrative, which is that Arab nationalists should feel guilty and ashamed for having betrayed the Ottoman empire in World War One. It follows therefore that before Palestine is liberated, every other former Ottoman territory must be reconquered by Turkey.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are again (as usual) demonstrating their uncanny ability to make the wrong decision.











						Palestinians slam ‘traitor’ UAE for normalising ties with Israel
					

Israel-UAE deal nullifies hope that only peace with Palestine can usher in ties between Israel and the Arab world.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Israel-UAE deal nullifies hope that only peace with Palestine can usher in ties between Israel and the Arab world.




Where many decades ago, the the Pals could rely on appeals to religious and ethnic hatreds for unquestioned support from the Arab world, the region has changing priorities and new alliances.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


>



I hate it when Arabs say "Yahood" and the translator goes "Israelis".

Then they go all about "_we are not against Jews, just the Israeli govt..._"


----------



## Hollie

It’s that inverse of reality which defines the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank.









						Palestinians say UAE deal hinders quest for Mideast peace
					

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel's agreement to establish diplomatic ties with the United Arab Emirates marks a watershed moment in its relations with Arab countries, but the Palestinians say it puts a just resolution of the Middle East conflict even farther out of reach...




					apnews.com


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when Arabs say "Yahood" and the translator goes "Israelis".
> 
> Then they go all about "_we are not against Jews, just the Israeli govt..._"
Click to expand...


Don’t they even get why the checkpoints are there?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when Arabs say "Yahood" and the translator goes "Israelis".
> 
> Then they go all about "_we are not against Jews, just the Israeli govt..._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t they even get why the checkpoints are there?
Click to expand...


Ask differently: why don't we ever hear about Palestinian thought "dissidents"...?

Where is the plurality of opinions, ideas?

It's unnatural.


----------



## Hollie

The expected whiners, Rashida Tlaib, Iran and an Obama era democrat, are whining in three part harmony to the Israeli - UAE diplomatic agreements.

The expected _stealing land™️ _canard a part of the whine-fest.









						Tlaib Slams Israel-U.A.E. Deal: ‘We Won’t Celebrate Netanyahu for Not Stealing Land’ | National Review
					

Tlaib, who is of Palestinian descent, is a supporter of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement.




					www.nationalreview.com


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when Arabs say "Yahood" and the translator goes "Israelis".
> 
> Then they go all about "_we are not against Jews, just the Israeli govt..._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t they even get why the checkpoints are there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask differently: why don't we ever hear about Palestinian thought "dissidents"...?
> 
> Where is the plurality of opinions, ideas?
> 
> It's unnatural.
Click to expand...


In the Islamic totalitarian dystopia, people who speak out against the caliphate get “disappeared”.









						Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent
					

Summary In the 25 years since Palestinians gained a degree of self-rule over the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, their authorities have established machineries of repression to crush dissent, including through the use of torture.




					www.hrw.org


----------



## Hollie

Diplomatic agreements.

Islamo-rage ensues.










						Angered by Trump-Brokered Peace Deal, Palestinians on Temple Mount Set Fire to Portraits of UAE Leader
					

"Palestinian worshipers tore up, trampled and set fire to images of Sheikh Mohammad bin Zayed, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi, as they protested...against the peace agreement."




					legalinsurrection.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman argues with Israeli soldiers who came to demolish her house, which is under construction, in Susya village in the occupied West Bank. Photo by Mussa Qawasma.


----------



## Hollie

A Palestinian woman shows Israeli soldiers how she defended herself from Arab criminals.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are lamenting the fact that they are no longer the center of the Arab-Moslem universe.

I’m thinking that the Pal epitaph will be written as “Would have, Should have, Never did and failed”. 

*Palestinian leadership condemns as “treason” and “knife in the back” the Israel-UAE peace agreement*









						Palestinian leadership condemns as “treason” and “knife in the back” the Israel-UAE peace agreement | PMW Analysis
					

Responding to the historic peace agreement between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, the Palestinian leadership has once again clarified that “normalization” of relations with Israel is equivalent to “treason.”




					palwatch.org
				



Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 16, 2020





Posted text with cartoon:
*Fatah: “#Normalization_is_a_crime
#Normalization_is_treason”*


----------



## Hollie

it seems some people like Rashida Tlaib can always find someone / something to be the focus of her hate, even a peace agreement. 










						Beyond Parody: Tlaib Erases Muslims in Tweet Attacking Peace Deal
					

Fanatic.




					townhall.com
				




In response to the just-announced peace deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, brokered by the Trump administration, a number of anti-Israel zealots -- some with barely-disguised pro-Iran leanings -- actually _criticized_ the development. Imagine being so supposedly "pro-peace" that you're angry about...an actual peace accord because the wrong sort of people may benefit or get credit:


----------



## Hollie

Possibly big changes about to take place in the Middle East. 




			UAE position on Palestine in line with Arab consensus, says diplomat
		


However, the Emirati diplomat said: “The kick off of relations between the UAE and Israel opens the gates, and what will follow will not be confined to the political level but will equally cover the economic, technological and academic levels. It is highly possible that the tempo of the development of these relations will be faster. We will see.”


----------



## Mindful

Interesting timing.

JERUSALEM (JTA) — Two rockets fired from Gaza that were aimed at the southern Israeli city of Sderot were intercepted by Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system Sunday, and Israel’s Air Force responded with airstrikes on Hamas military targets in Gaza.
The targets included a military compound used to store rocket ammunition, in Israel’s second overnight attack on Gaza amid an escalation of tensions this week. Earlier on Saturday night, Israel bombed Hamas targets in Gaza in retaliation for incendiary balloons sent over the border that ignited at least 19 fires, some that burned agricultural fields.

It was the fifth night in a row that the Israeli military struck Hamas targets in Gaza in response to the balloons after at least 100 fires were sparked in southern Israel over the last week. Hamas said two Palestinian children were injured in the airstrikes on Friday night.
Also on Saturday night, about 800 Palestinian protesters massed on the Gaza border, some throwing explosives at Israeli soldiers. Some of the soldiers responded with live gunfire.









						Israeli airstrikes hit Hamas targets in Gaza in response to rockets and incendiary balloons - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
					

It was the second Israeli attack on Gaza in one night, and the fifth night in a row of Israeli attacks in retaliation for incendiary balloons that have sparked 100 fires in southern Israel in the last week.




					www.jta.org


----------



## rylah

*Rabbi Ouri 'Amos Sherki - How to deal with the Arab terror?*

I'll tell You unpopular things.
Everyone talks about that following all the incidents, people have awakened, prayer, unity in the nation, millions of emotions, how we are a nation that sanctifies mercy and they sanctify the death, and all such things...a feeling of evacuation of Gush Katif.

These things are good, I'm not saying anything against, only that there's a missing of the main point. The main point is that (they) don't know what to do. Right?

And then "we'll catch them, show them get them into jail or kill them or don't know what. And we'll cancel their infrastructure of the militants" etc.

It's like if You cross on a red light, the judge gives You, a yeshiva student, a punishment to not enter disco for 5 years. It doesn't deter. As a matter of fact to get killed, *to fight them, for them it's a victory.*

This is not what deters, and our prayers neither deter them, nor that we say we're better than them, that doesn't even scratch them. So we need to know what is from the point of view of our enemies a defeat.

Whoever commits any attack, You take him and his village as they are and move them to another country, to Gaza. And the houses as they are You give to Jews to make a village. *There, not anywhere by, there.*

That's all.

And it should be mentioned, that *we're discussing a tribal society*, the minute one group moved to another place, they will finish them there. Very simple.

Such a thing is loss of territory, from their point of view this is the defeat.
There's a need to know what's in the head of the adversary.

To kill him is not a defeat at all, because it's his thing, not because of the virgins, because it's his thing, his thing to go out to wars. And as long as we don't act like this, these incidents will unfortunately repeat.


----------



## Hollie

Mindful said:


> Interesting timing.
> 
> JERUSALEM (JTA) — Two rockets fired from Gaza that were aimed at the southern Israeli city of Sderot were intercepted by Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system Sunday, and Israel’s Air Force responded with airstrikes on Hamas military targets in Gaza.
> The targets included a military compound used to store rocket ammunition, in Israel’s second overnight attack on Gaza amid an escalation of tensions this week. Earlier on Saturday night, Israel bombed Hamas targets in Gaza in retaliation for incendiary balloons sent over the border that ignited at least 19 fires, some that burned agricultural fields.
> 
> It was the fifth night in a row that the Israeli military struck Hamas targets in Gaza in response to the balloons after at least 100 fires were sparked in southern Israel over the last week. Hamas said two Palestinian children were injured in the airstrikes on Friday night.
> Also on Saturday night, about 800 Palestinian protesters massed on the Gaza border, some throwing explosives at Israeli soldiers. Some of the soldiers responded with live gunfire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli airstrikes hit Hamas targets in Gaza in response to rockets and incendiary balloons - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> 
> It was the second Israeli attack on Gaza in one night, and the fifth night in a row of Israeli attacks in retaliation for incendiary balloons that have sparked 100 fires in southern Israel in the last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jta.org



As one might expect, the Pals consistently make the wrong choice and act in their own worst interest.

Rocket fire from Gaza could be perceived by the surrounding Arab nations as Hamas being directed by the Iranian Mullocrats to retaliate for the Arab-Israeli peace agreements.

There is every indication that Israel will respond with modest air strikes in reaction to Hamas attacks and the Arab nations may view that as confirmation that with Israel, they have a buffer against Iranian / Hezbollah military threats.

Pals, eh? If only they could get one thing right instead of getting everything wrong.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palesrinians?

*Rania Khalek,* Palestinian journalist


----------



## Hollie

Who are the "Palesrinians''?


----------



## Hollie

MNN (Mahmoud News Network) is getting a bit testy with regard to criticism of the UAE Crown Prince.

Apparently, some people did something.


*A traitor and a tumor - PA demonization of UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed*

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Aug 17, 2020




Is the Palestinian Authority setting the stage for the assassination of United Arab Emirates Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed?

While is it unclear whether the PA response to the Israel-UAE peace deal was necessarily intended to incite the assassination of Bin Zayed, there is no doubt that the response has all the required ingredients.

“Traitor,” “tumor,” and “collaborator” are the terms the PA and Palestinian leaders have used to describe bin Zayed and the deal. These expressions are not merely an expression of anger but also - in honor-based societies in which people who are perceived to have betrayed a given norm are executed - have the potential to be seen as a call to action.

In the official PA newspaper, regular columnist Muwaffaq Mattar declared the peace deal “treason”:



> “Mohammed bin Zayed’s normalization [with Israel] has murdered the most important element in the human identity of the Arab man: He killed the loyalty by intentionally violating the UAE’s commitment to the Arab peace initiative… We see nothing in his *act of treason* other than recognition of the rule of ‘the Jewish State of Israel’ – as [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu calls it – over Jerusalem, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 16, 2020]


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> The Pals are lamenting the fact that they are no longer the center of the Arab-Moslem universe.
> 
> I’m thinking that the Pal epitaph will be written as “Would have, Should have, Never did and failed”.
> 
> *Palestinian leadership condemns as “treason” and “knife in the back” the Israel-UAE peace agreement*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian leadership condemns as “treason” and “knife in the back” the Israel-UAE peace agreement | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Responding to the historic peace agreement between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, the Palestinian leadership has once again clarified that “normalization” of relations with Israel is equivalent to “treason.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 16, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted text with cartoon:
> *Fatah: “#Normalization_is_a_crime
> #Normalization_is_treason”*




That’s the sort of cover pic Der Spiegel would put out on their latest edition.


----------



## Hollie

The PA is doing everything they can to antagonize the UAE and vilify Arabs who would dare seek mutually beneficial relations with Israel. That seems to be an act of desperation.

After decades of Arab nation’s nearly unquestioned allegiance to the Pals, there is a shift happening. Arab nations may discover that trade, commerce, tourism and technology sharing with Israel may quickly benefit them as showering the Pals with welfare money has not.



*Israel is “the enemy of Prophet Muhammad” - PA seeks religious war over UAE-Israel peace agreement*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 19, 2020
*


PA fatwa forbids Muslims who come via the UAE following peace agreementto pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque
Senior PA religious official:*

*UAE’s making peace and “normalizing” with Israel is “treason” and “political prostitution”*
*“Normalization is treason. Normalization means that you agree to natural relations with your brother’s murderers and your father’s murderers. That you agree to natural relations with the enemies of Prophet Muhammad”*
*PA Grand Mufti issues fatwa forbidding Muslims who come via the UAE following peace agreement with Israel to pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque*


----------



## Sixties Fan

An antisemitic PLO poster circa 1970
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are falling over themselves as they ramp up the Jew hatred. 




*PA to all Muslims: Jews are defiling Jerusalem, invading Al-Aqsa Mosque*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 20, 2020




When Jews prayed on the Temple Mount last month to commemorate the destruction of both Temples in Jerusalem - by Babylon in 586 BCE and by Rome in 70 CE – the PA reacted with vicious antisemitic messages. The Jewish worshippers on the Temple Mount were said to have “defiled” and “invaded” Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Addressing the Arab nation as “O, brother,” the PA demonized Israelis and Jews, claiming they commit “despicable acts” and “fake history.” Regarding anything related to the Temples in Jerusalem, the PA uses the terms "fake history," "alleged" and "so-called" as part of their rewriting of history denying the thousands of years of Jewish presence in the land:















> *Official PA TV host:* ”Dozens of settlers invaded the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque’s plazas in occupied Jerusalem, this morning, for the alleged memorial day of the so-called Destruction of the Temple (i.e., Tisha B’Av).”


----------



## Hollie

Kamal “_my middle name is tact_” Al-Khatib is hurling some hate and insults at the KSA to preemptively set the tone in the event they establish diplomatic relations with Israel. 


Israeli Islamist Leader Kamal Al-Khatib: UAE, Saudi Crown Princes Are A Cancer, Coronavirus; Israel-UAE Relations Are Like A Couple Getting Married After An Illicit Affair


----------



## Hollie

Could a ripple on the water precede a rising tide?


Lebanese President Michel Aoun on Possible Peace with Israel: "It Depends"


----------



## Hollie

Saeb “_there’s an Arab dagger in my back_” Erekat seems a bit confused about some Israeli - Pal two state solution. The Pals walked away from numerous, earlier chances for some kind of “statehood”.

The unilateral Israeli withdrawal from Gaza more than a decade ago displayed very quickly that the Pals simply could not manage the affairs of civil government and the worst elements of the Islamic terrorist enclave have existed ever since. 











						'You killed two-state solution': Top Palestinian says Israeli deal with UAE destroys peace hopes
					

The agreement was "an Arab dagger in my back", according to Dr Saeb Erekat, who is a leading Palestinian diplomat.




					news.sky.com
				





Prospects for negotiations and peace between the Palestinians and Israel have been destroyed and the hand of extremists strengthened by the surprise deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, a top Palestinian diplomat has told Sky News.

In a frank and downbeat interview, negotiator Dr Saeb Erekat said the *landmark agreement* between the Israeli prime minister and the Abu Dhabi crown prince, brokered by Donald Trump's son-in-law *Jared Kushner*, was "an Arab dagger - a poisonous dagger - in my back".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians in Gaza City borrow a slogan frequently used at Black Lives Matter demonstrations in the US during a protest against Israeli annexation on 1 July.
 Ashraf Amra APA images


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems in Gaza City steal a slogan used by a supremacist group.

Ethnic and religious supremacism has a long history in Arab-Moslem’dom.


----------



## Hollie

Palestine, not Israel, will carry the cost of its rejectionist policies
					

The Palestinian Authority, unphased by its unsavory allies, is continuing to stick its head in the sand.




					m.jpost.com
				





*Palestine, not Israel, will carry the cost of its rejectionist policies.*

It’s been said of Palestinian leaders that they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. History seems to be proving the statement correct with the Palestinian response to the peace agreement between the United Arab Emirates and Israel last week.

By EMILY SCHRADER 
AUGUST 17, 2020 21:32




Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas speaks during a leadership meeting in Ramallah, in the West Bank May 19, 2020
(photo credit: ALAA BADARNEH/POOL VIA REUTERS)

“I’m mad as hell and I’m not going..... I want my welfare money.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews     
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* Now isn't this just too sad.  Call an EMT Squad_*!*_



Hollie said:


> Prospects for negotiations and peace between the Palestinians and Israel have been destroyed and the hand of extremists strengthened by the surprise deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, a top Palestinian diplomat has told Sky News.


*(COMMENT)*

Did anyone actually think that any cooperation from the Palestinians could make a two-state solution a hopeful outcome*?*




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

In view of Oslo, Camp David, “Roadmaps to Nowhere” and various proposals that never gained traction, I really never saw anything on the Pal side that suggested they were capable of cobbling together a workable society. Neither Hamas nor the Fatah klans could agree on which entity represented the Pals. Neither klan could negotiate Independently or accept anything less than “no compromise” without being seen as traitorous by the other.  
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Jordan_peace_treaty


----------



## Hollie

I think the conspiracy theories are getting more desperate (maybe more entertaining), as the Pals get more out of touch with reality 




*PA libel: Israel supplies weapons to Palestinians to fight one another and illegal fireworks to cause injuries*









						PA libel: Israel supplies weapons to Palestinians to fight one another and illegal fireworks to cause injuries | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah official: Shoot Israelis not Palestinians!




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 18, 2020

*Fatah official: Shoot Israelis not Palestinians!  *
*Palestinian’s impotent gun against Israelis dreams of Viagra*







*PA Police Spokesman: “There are elements of the occupation that have begun to spread crime… and encourage violence and murder in the Palestinian society… the Israeli occupation… is transferring supplies to the weapon dealers”*
* PA: Israel supplies Palestinians with fireworks “to destroy the Palestinian society”*


----------



## Hollie

Israeli Envoy Explains Why Palestinian Terrorism Prevents Peace
					

So long as the Palestinian leadership encourages terrorism, both explicitly and implicitely, true peace in the Middle East is impossible.




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




“It is difficult to cooperate with those who pay a monthly salary of 3,500 euros to convicted murderers.”


----------



## Hollie

Now it’s gettin’ real, as the saying goes.



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/08/19/report-security-escalation-may-prompt-israel-to-resume-targeted-assassinations-of-hamas-officials/
		


“Qatari daily says Egyptian officials have warned Hamas that continued escalation could see Israel target Yahya Sinwar, the terrorist group's military leader in Gaza, and Marwan Issa, commander of the Izzadin al-Qassam Brigades.”


I suspect that any such message to Hamas from Egyptian officials was likely delivered at the request of the Israeli government. With the recent attacks coming from Gaza, Israel will want to put the kabash on further escalation.


----------



## Hollie

Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism. 










						MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
					

The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.




					m.jpost.com
				





Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.

The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.


Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
Click to expand...

Oh, geese, your usual slogans.


----------



## Hollie

This ain't Seattle











						Islamist firebrand preacher Raed Salah begins prison term for inciting terror
					

Head of outlawed group convicted for speeches supporting gunmen who killed 2 cops at Temple Mount in 2017, sparking more violence




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Sheikh Raed Salah, the firebrand leader of an outlawed Islamist group, began on Sunday a term of 28 months in prison for inciting terror and membership in an illegal organization.

Salah, the leader of the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement, was convicted by the Haifa Magistrate’s Court in November after he spoke out in support of a terror attack on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount that left two police officers dead and inflamed regional tensions.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
Click to expand...


You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
You'll make Tinny sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
Click to expand...

Palestinians do not fit the description.

It is just juvenile name calling.


----------



## Hollie

A part of the sacrificial lamb disposable child breeding program.

Islamic terrorists have some odd notions of childhood early development. 


*PA proud it sends kids to die: “Our [children] teach the world what sacrifice and self-sacrifice are,” says PA official*









						PA proud it sends kids to die: “Our [children] teach the world what sacrifice and self-sacrifice are,” says PA official | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian kids’ destiny is to die for Palestine - they should “sacrifice” themselves for Jerusalem and its holy sites! That is the official message from Abbas’ Presidential Office.




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Aug 23, 2020



Palestinian kids’ destiny is to die for Palestine - they should “sacrifice” themselves for Jerusalem and its holy sites! That is the official message from Abbas’ Presidential Office.

In an interview on official PA TV, the Director of the PA Presidential Office’s Jerusalem Unit bragged that “the boys and girls of Jerusalem are teaching the entire world what sacrifice and self-sacrifice are”:


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not fit the description.
> 
> It is just juvenile name calling.
Click to expand...


Commit terrorist acts aimed at civilians.....fits the description.

Even if that makes you sad.


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not fit the description.
> 
> It is just juvenile name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commit terrorist acts aimed at civilians.....fits the description.
> 
> Even if that makes you sad.
Click to expand...


a common definition of terrorism: “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”.

The two, competing Islamic terrorist enclaves in Gaza and the West Bank are models for that description.

Sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not fit the description.
> 
> It is just juvenile name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commit terrorist acts aimed at civilians.....fits the description.
> 
> Even if that makes you sad.
Click to expand...

Another Israeli lie, of course.

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not. 

When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not. 





__





						A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
					

Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.



					www.worldpress.org


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.



Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.

Because you're typical muslim scum.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Because you're typical muslim scum.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Because you're typical muslim scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
Click to expand...


That's what Hamas thinks.
Do you disagree with Hamas?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Because you're typical muslim scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what Hamas thinks.
> Do you disagree with Hamas?
Click to expand...

Hamas says the sky is blue. Do you disagree with Hamas?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not fit the description.
> 
> It is just juvenile name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commit terrorist acts aimed at civilians.....fits the description.
> 
> Even if that makes you sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
Click to expand...

An Islamic terrorist decided that Israelis are not protected by the Geneva Conventions.

I found that shocking.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Because you're typical muslim scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what Hamas thinks.
> Do you disagree with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas says the sky is blue. Do you disagree with Hamas?
Click to expand...


Cute.
Now, tell me more about your support for Hamas terror attacks.


----------



## Hollie

It’s summer fun time for the Islamic terrorist version of the Hitler Youth. 










						Despite Covid-19, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) held its annual summer camps, where Palestinian youths acquire paramilitary skills - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

This summer the mobilization unit of the PIJ's military wing held its annual summer camps for youths in the Gaza Strip, despite dealing with the fight against coronavirus infection. This year the camps were called the "al-amin ("the secretary") camps," in memory of Ramadan Abdallah Shalah, the...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				





Published: 20/08/2020


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not fit the description.
> 
> It is just juvenile name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commit terrorist acts aimed at civilians.....fits the description.
> 
> Even if that makes you sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Islamic terrorist decided that Israelis are not protected by the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> I found that shocking.
Click to expand...

The Geneva Convention says that and Israel agreed with them. Well, except for the liars.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Because you're typical muslim scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what Hamas thinks.
> Do you disagree with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas says the sky is blue. Do you disagree with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cute.
> Now, tell me more about your support for Hamas terror attacks.
Click to expand...

What terror attacks?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The Geneva Convention says that and Israel agreed with them. Well, except for the liars.



You're lying. The Geneva Convention does not in any way excuse Palestinian terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens. Israel never agreed it says that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you think terror attacks on Israeli civilians are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Because you're typical muslim scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what Hamas thinks.
> Do you disagree with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas says the sky is blue. Do you disagree with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cute.
> Now, tell me more about your support for Hamas terror attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> O don't get into that juvenile name calling crap.
Click to expand...


Don't get into that supporting evil crap.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva Convention says that and Israel agreed with them. Well, except for the liars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're lying. The Geneva Convention does not in any way excuse Palestinian terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens. Israel never agreed it says that.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva Convention says that and Israel agreed with them. Well, except for the liars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're lying. The Geneva Convention does not in any way excuse Palestinian terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens. Israel never agreed it says that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


No, your Geneva Convention claim is the unsubstantiated Hamas talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting idea. identify as a terrorist organization those organizations which enable Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MKs call for Palestinian prisoners’ board to be designated as terrorist
> 
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of Knesset are calling for the Palestinian Authority’s Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs to be designated a terrorist organization by the Israeli government.
> 
> The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs holds a "central role" in disseminating the salaries to the families of terrorists serving time in Israeli prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh geese, more terrorist name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't call Palestinian terrorists....terrorists.
> You'll make Tinny sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not fit the description.
> 
> It is just juvenile name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Commit terrorist acts aimed at civilians.....fits the description.
> 
> Even if that makes you sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another Israeli lie, of course.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An Islamic terrorist decided that Israelis are not protected by the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> I found that shocking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Geneva Convention says that and Israel agreed with them. Well, except for the liars.
Click to expand...

You're confused.


----------



## Hollie

it appears that Israel is setting the conditions for another Islamic terrorist beat down.










						Defense Minister Gantz warns Hamas: If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be
					

Israel closes entire Gaza fishing zone over continued violence; Gaza power plant to shut down Tuesday




					m.jpost.com
				





After a weekend of violence left both Israeli and Palestinian injured, Defense Minister Benny Gantz warned Hamas that the IDF would not stop striking the Gaza Strip unless all attacks from the coastal enclave ceased.

“The IDF will respond forcefully to any violation of sovereignty until complete quiet is restored in the south. If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be either,” Gantz said, following a security situation assessment with IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

geneva convention protected persons


Hollie said:


> it appears that Israel is setting the conditions for another Islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defense Minister Gantz warns Hamas: If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be
> 
> 
> Israel closes entire Gaza fishing zone over continued violence; Gaza power plant to shut down Tuesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a weekend of violence left both Israeli and Palestinian injured, Defense Minister Benny Gantz warned Hamas that the IDF would not stop striking the Gaza Strip unless all attacks from the coastal enclave ceased.
> 
> “The IDF will respond forcefully to any violation of sovereignty until complete quiet is restored in the south. If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be either,” Gantz said, following a security situation assessment with IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi.


Israel's version of quiet is keeping the blockade.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> geneva convention protected persons
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> it appears that Israel is setting the conditions for another Islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defense Minister Gantz warns Hamas: If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be
> 
> 
> Israel closes entire Gaza fishing zone over continued violence; Gaza power plant to shut down Tuesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a weekend of violence left both Israeli and Palestinian injured, Defense Minister Benny Gantz warned Hamas that the IDF would not stop striking the Gaza Strip unless all attacks from the coastal enclave ceased.
> 
> “The IDF will respond forcefully to any violation of sovereignty until complete quiet is restored in the south. If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be either,” Gantz said, following a security situation assessment with IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the blockade.
Click to expand...


It's an effective way to suppress Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Some honest commentary about Arab attitudes toward the Pals. The Pals were, for decades, a convenient flail used against Israel. The Pals being little more than a weapon used by Arabs as a vehicle for their politico-religious war against Jews. In a remarkable turn of events, the Arabs now find a need to align with Israel against another eternal enemy: the Shia in Iran.










						The Palestinians weren’t betrayed by the UAE. They were simply left behind
					

There's a lesson for the Palestinians in the normalization agreement: Israel can be pressured and swayed, but not by those champions of the Palestinian cause who seek to destroy it




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




The Palestinians weren’t betrayed by the UAE. They were simply left behind

It is a long-delayed reckoning with one of the most bitter facts of their situation: that the Arab world has always been more concerned with Palestine as a symbol than with Palestinians as human beings.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> geneva convention protected persons
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> it appears that Israel is setting the conditions for another Islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defense Minister Gantz warns Hamas: If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be
> 
> 
> Israel closes entire Gaza fishing zone over continued violence; Gaza power plant to shut down Tuesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a weekend of violence left both Israeli and Palestinian injured, Defense Minister Benny Gantz warned Hamas that the IDF would not stop striking the Gaza Strip unless all attacks from the coastal enclave ceased.
> 
> “The IDF will respond forcefully to any violation of sovereignty until complete quiet is restored in the south. If Sderot isn’t quiet, Gaza won’t be either,” Gantz said, following a security situation assessment with IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the blockade.
Click to expand...


Blockading the shit out of your terrorist buddies.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Again, I encourage you to do your due diligence in "fact-checking."



P F Tinmore said:


> geneva convention protected persons


*(COMMENT)*

While the set of Geneva Conventions does go a long way in emphasizing the care towards protected persons (Persons in confinement, Non-repatriated persons, Hostages, Aliens in the territory, etc) and other innocents, it is not solely tasked in that direction.  The Conventions also set the standards for judicial prosecution, penalties, and internment associated with espionage, acts of sabotage, and damage against the military, administrative, and leased installations and property by the occupying forces or administration.  The Conventions also extend the umbrella over the investment into measures taken to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.




P F Tinmore said:


> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the blockade.


*(COMMENT)*

This is just another one of many excuses used by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as a justify their unlawful actions.  But anyone that knows the International Conventions and Laws, knows this is nothing more than the whining of HoAP subterfuge.

It is an extremely narrow view for the HoAP to hold.  The measures taken to stem the Illicit flows of small arms and light weapons undermine security is well within the authority under international arms control.  The actions taken by Israel also fall under the obligation to help in the enforcement of the 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.  Israel is not the only nation that is involved in the  Plan of  Action to  Prevent  Violent  Extremism  (PVE).  

Such measures as the blockade also play an integral role in the: 

◈  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​​◈  Prevent such conduct;​​◈  Deny  safe  haven  to  any  persons  with  respect  to  whom  there  is  credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
These measures strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct from entering their territory.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Again, I encourage you to do your due diligence in "fact-checking."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> geneva convention protected persons
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the set of Geneva Conventions does go a long way in emphasizing the care towards protected persons (Persons in confinement, Non-repatriated persons, Hostages, Aliens in the territory, etc) and other innocents, it is not solely tasked in that direction.  The Conventions also set the standards for judicial prosecution, penalties, and internment associated with espionage, acts of sabotage, and damage against the military, administrative, and leased installations and property by the occupying forces or administration.  The Conventions also extend the umbrella over the investment into measures taken to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is just another one of many excuses used by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as a justify their unlawful actions.  But anyone that knows the International Conventions and Laws, knows this is nothing more than the whining of HoAP subterfuge.
> 
> It is an extremely narrow view for the HoAP to hold.  The measures taken to stem the Illicit flows of small arms and light weapons undermine security is well within the authority under international arms control.  The actions taken by Israel also fall under the obligation to help in the enforcement of the 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.  Israel is not the only nation that is involved in the  Plan of  Action to  Prevent  Violent  Extremism  (PVE).
> 
> Such measures as the blockade also play an integral role in the:
> 
> ◈  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​​◈  Prevent such conduct;​​◈  Deny  safe  haven  to  any  persons  with  respect  to  whom  there  is  credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> These measures strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct from entering their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All Israeli settlers are living on Palestinian land. Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members in Israel's colonial project. They cannot be separated from Israel as a whole.

Gaza has been under some form of siege since Oslo. It has also faced de-development.

Many parts of the blockade go way beyond anything that can be called security,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Again, I encourage you to do your due diligence in "fact-checking."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> geneva convention protected persons
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the set of Geneva Conventions does go a long way in emphasizing the care towards protected persons (Persons in confinement, Non-repatriated persons, Hostages, Aliens in the territory, etc) and other innocents, it is not solely tasked in that direction.  The Conventions also set the standards for judicial prosecution, penalties, and internment associated with espionage, acts of sabotage, and damage against the military, administrative, and leased installations and property by the occupying forces or administration.  The Conventions also extend the umbrella over the investment into measures taken to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's version of quiet is keeping the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is just another one of many excuses used by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as a justify their unlawful actions.  But anyone that knows the International Conventions and Laws, knows this is nothing more than the whining of HoAP subterfuge.
> 
> It is an extremely narrow view for the HoAP to hold.  The measures taken to stem the Illicit flows of small arms and light weapons undermine security is well within the authority under international arms control.  The actions taken by Israel also fall under the obligation to help in the enforcement of the 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.  Israel is not the only nation that is involved in the  Plan of  Action to  Prevent  Violent  Extremism  (PVE).
> 
> Such measures as the blockade also play an integral role in the:
> 
> ◈  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​​◈  Prevent such conduct;​​◈  Deny  safe  haven  to  any  persons  with  respect  to  whom  there  is  credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> These measures strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct from entering their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All Israeli settlers are living on Palestinian land. Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members in Israel's colonial project. They cannot be separated from Israel as a whole.
> 
> Gaza has been under some form of siege since Oslo. It has also faced de-development.
> 
> Many parts of the blockade go way beyond anything that can be called security,
Click to expand...

What is this Pal'istanian land you're on about? Is that the area previously controlled by the Ottomans, released to the mandate and now occupied by the Arab-Moslems?

Gaza might be re-developed into a working society if not for the Arabs-Moslems occupying the area.

Many parts of the don't go far enough in controlling Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> It has also faced de-development.



I hope so. Their idea of development is terror tunnels and rockets to attack civilians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF: * And again.  We come to dispute the language you use.



P F Tinmore said:


> All Israeli settlers are living on Palestinian land.


*(COMMENT)*

Who said it was "Palestinian Land?"  _(As in somehow under the sovereignty of a certain cultural group?)_



P F Tinmore said:


> Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members in Israel's colonial project. They cannot be separated from Israel as a whole.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel is not, nor has it ever been, a colonial power.  _(See the Special Committee on Decoloniallization)_




P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza has been under some form of siege since Oslo. It has also faced de-development.


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Many parts of the blockade go way beyond anything that can be called security,


*(COMMENT)*

Yeah, this is a complaint by all criminal activities in small arms and explosives trade, as well as those using sea access as a means of infiltration.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The Pals have decided to do everything they can to attack the UAE and alienate themselves from Arab states. 


*PA: Buttocks exposed - Emirates’ Crown Prince is pawn in hands of the US*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 24, 2020





*Fatah: UAE peace agreement is “political danger,” encouraging other Arab states “to hurry towards normalization” with “the Israeli entity that is stealing the Al-Aqsa Mosque”*
*Palestinian Imams and preachers: “Visiting Jerusalem under the auspices and protection of the occupation is treason against Allah, His Prophet [Muhammad], and the Palestinian cause”*
*PA/Fatah/Hamas slogan: “Normalization is treason”*


----------



## Hollie

The Islamo-knuckleheads have graciously conceded to no longer being a threat to anyone. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/08/25/israel-gaza-tensions-simmer-as-arson-terrorism-persists/
		


IDF strikes Hamas sites after airborne incendiary devices launched from Gaza spark 36 fires in border-adjacent farmlands. _*Four Islamic Jihad operatives killed, six injured in an explosion in a Gaza weapons mill.*_


----------



## Hollie

it really could get very ugly for the Islamic terrorists if Israel decides it’s time to react with “more than a proportional response” to attacks on Israeli civilians and cities.

I think it’s also worth noting that Pal “leaders” are likely not making any unilateral decisions about attacks aimed at Israel. Those attacks require weapons and ammunition so it is likely that Iran will be making decisions about attacks. The Pals will do what they’re told. 










						Return to the ‘armed struggle’?
					

The Palestinians’ leaders appear to be preparing the ground for outright conflict. The question Israeli policy makers have to ask themselves is whether they are finally ready to fight fire with fire.




					www.jns.org
				




The Palestinians’ leaders appear to be preparing the ground for outright conflict. The question Israeli policy makers have to ask themselves is whether they are finally ready to fight fire with fire.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud “_The Emir of Nothing_” Abbas, Is lamenting the fact that his caliphate is collapsing before him.

Israel is already achieving some grudging peace agreements with Arab nations. 










						Abbas: Normalization between Arabs, Israel won’t achieve peace
					

The PA president also said that peace can be achieved only on the basis of international resolutions and the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative.




					m.jpost.com
				





*Abbas: Normalization between Arabs, Israel won’t achieve peace*
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
AUGUST 25, 2020 18:55






*The PA president also said that peace can be achieved only on the basis of international resolutions and the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

The first picture came from an article about a kid without legs in New England.

The second seems to be either from Afghanistan or Kashmir, but it isn’t Gaza.

Adham seems to make a career of relabeling photos as being from Gaza:









						More #Pallywood lies
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

PCHR tries to counter “Terrorists in Suits”–and can’t
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> What terror attacks?



Every time Hamas launches a rocket from Gaza into Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> PCHR tries to counter “Terrorists in Suits”–and can’t
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Grasping at straws.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCHR tries to counter “Terrorists in Suits”–and can’t
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grasping at straws.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## Hollie

Seemingly, some islamo-shenanigans taking place as the Arabs-Moslems are presenting different welfare budget values depending on the intended audience. 











						PA budget reports differ from Arabic to English | PMW Analysis
					

Is this accidental or the PA’s attempt to deceive the international community?




					palwatch.org
				





*PA budget reports differ from Arabic to English*

Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | Aug 25, 2020
*Is this accidental or the PA’s attempt to deceive the international community?*
Every month, the Palestinian Authority publishes a monthly budget performance reports in Arabic, and for the international donor community a translation is published in English. The Arabic and English reports with hundreds of entries should be identical, which they are, except for one item in all the reports since February 2020: the Arabic includes the budget entry “Commission for Prisoners and Released” - which ostensibly documents the PA salaries to terrorists – while this entry is missing from the English.
*This is the Arabic chart with PMW’s translation*




*This is the English chart as it appears on the PA website*


----------



## Hollie

just more silly bluster from the Arabs-Moslamw


----------



## Hollie

Yep. While Hamas and the PA had visions of their respective mini-caliphates being the forever source of Arab indulgence, the region is moving beyond the bottomless pit of want and entitlement that defines Pal whiners.











						Israel-UAE Deal: Arab States Are Tired of Waiting on Palestine
					

The announcement’s unspoken message to Ramallah is to get on with it — to negotiate and settle with Israel while there’s still some chance for an independent Palestinian state.




					www.fairobserver.com
				




 The August 13 announcement of normalized relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates breaks the quarter-century standstill in Arab-Israeli relations and shows that Arab states will no longer hold their interests hostage to the long-dormant Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations.


----------



## Hollie

Good work by Israel for suppressing the ever present islamic terrorist threat. 










						UPDATE: Israel Hadn’t Suffered a Civilian Terror Death in Over a Year | Israel Today
					

Israel has endured terrorism and terror-related deaths nearly every year since its modern rebirth in 1948. What's different this year?




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				





It’s been over a year since Rina Shnerb (17 at the time) was killed when Palestinian terrorists detonated a bomb along a popular hiking trail in Samaria.

Since her tragic death, no other Israeli civilians have lost their lives to Palestinian terrorism. It’s the first time in 56 years that Israel has gone a full year without a terror-related civilian death.


----------



## Hollie

The Palis need an intervention. They’re just, you know, yesterday's news. 










						Palestine and the Arab World: A Relationship in Crisis? - The Media Line
					

For more than 60 years, the centrality of the Palestinian cause to the Arab world was without dispute, capturing the hearts and minds of people throughout the region and commanding the support of their governments.




					themedialine.org
				




For more than 60 years, the centrality of the Palestinian cause to the Arab world was without dispute, capturing the hearts and minds of people throughout the region and commanding the support of their governments. Today, however, this position has eroded and more Arab countries are pursuing enhanced relations with Israel despite its continued occupation and settlement of Palestine. This month, the United Arab Emirates announced it would establish official ties with Israel, and other countries are reportedly considering following suit. These developments beg the question: What has happened to Palestine’s place in the region and its relationships to regional allies?


----------



## Hollie

Yes, I have to agree that the Pals will probably never achieve statehood. In terms of the various Islamic terrorist mouthpieces who have assumed the role of Emir-in-charge of the UNRWA welfare fraud syndicate, its difficult to accept that there has ever been a serious effort by the Palis to build anything like a functioning ''state''.











						Palestine Is an Afterthought in the Latest Middle East Deal
					

The United Arab Emirates is embracing an Israel that has moved far to the right. Palestinian rights, the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict, are barely on the table.




					www.barrons.com
				




The Palestinians will probably never achieve statehood, and the newly formalized United Arab Emirates-Israel diplomatic relationship is neither the first nor the last acknowledgment of that sad truth. But regional developments continue to add nails to the proverbial coffin of Palestinian self-determination. The irony is that while support for Palestinian rights in the U.S. is slowly but steadily strengthening, many Arab states, long rhetorically supportive of the Palestinians, are now more openly embracing an Israel that has politically moved far to the right.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud “_The Conqueror” _Abbas is going to stay the course. At some point, a new generation of welfare thieves will inherit the legacy of incompetence and ineptitude left by the Islamic terrorists now occupying the West Bank and Gaza.

While the names have changed, the gee-had, infliction of suffering and misery doesn’t change. Arafat, Yassin, Rantisi, and al-Husseini are all gone, but their legacy of virulent hatred, bloodlust and Islamic terrorism lives on with Abbas, Sinwar, Haniyeh and a host of other misfits.










						Palestinian leaders stay the course as crises mount
					

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — In three decades of failed peace efforts, the Palestinians have never faced a more hostile U...




					apnews.com
				





RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — In three decades of failed peace efforts, the Palestinians have never faced a more hostile U.S. administration, a more self-assured Israel or a more ambivalent international community.

But even as their hopes for statehood have never seemed so dim, there’s no indication their aging leadership will change course.


----------



## Hollie

Because the Pals are unable to manage their affairs or take responsibility for their actions...











						Palestine factions: Israel responsible for Palestinian lives amid Gaza coronavirus outbreak
					

The Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip proclaimed on Thursday that they hold Israel fully responsible for the lives of Palestinians in the besieged enclave, in light of the outbreak of COVID-19, S...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




The Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip proclaimed on Thursday that they hold Israel fully responsible for the lives of Palestinians in the besieged enclave, in light of the outbreak of COVID-19, _Safa News Agency_ reported.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since the establishment of the country, all Israeli governments have pursued peace with its Arab neighbors. The late Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin signed a historic peace treaty with Egypt and the late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin signed a similar peace treaty with Jordan. The State of Israel is proud of both peace agreements and has sought to replicate these agreements with other Arab states. However, over the past decade, no one has pursued peace with the greater Arab world more aggressively than Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Follow Israel Hayom on Facebook and Twitter

The establishment of peaceful relations with the United Arab Emirates surprised many people. However, at the same time, it revealed the true face of the Palestinian Authority. Instead of signing peace agreements, the PA encourages its citizens to attack Border Policemen in Jerusalem; glorifies the dispatching of incendiary balloons and Qassam rockets into the Israeli communities near Gaza, and systematically incites violence and terrorism.

In the same spirit, Palestinian leaders and PA media outlets have described UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed as a "traitor," "collaborator," and even a "tumor" for making peace with the State of Israel. Since 1993, the Palestinian Authority has rejected every peace offer that came their way.  Simultaneously, they have actively attempted to maintain the Arab world's opposition toward Israel and have worked against other Muslim countries making peace with the Jewish state.

The Palestinian Authority and its leadership cannot continue to hold the Arab world hostage. The PA wants the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to continue and to take precedence over other things happening in the Middle East.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/uae-israel-peace-deal-exposes-true-face-of-palestinian-authority/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Whatever happened to Qatar's help to the Palestinians? Where is the EU ?]

“I don’t know what or how we will eat tomorrow,” Gaza resident Ahmed Eissa told AP, complaining about the Hamas government’s lack of concern for the population. UN official Nickolay Mladenov demands change.

(full article online)









						Gazans Wallow in Poverty, Slam Hamas Terror Regime | United with Israel
					

'I don’t know what or how we will eat tomorrow,' Gaza resident Ahmed Eissa told AP, complaining about the Hamas government's lack of concern for the population.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Pal terrorism. Its a syndicate.











						UK police arrest Pro-BDS Palestinian activist on terrorism charge
					

The paper said that Hijjawi was arrested at Heathrow airport and the 62-year-old's house in the Blackhall area of Edinburgh was searched by Scottish police.




					www.jpost.com
				




British authorities arrested Association of Palestinian Communities in Scotland chairman Dr. Issam Hijjawi on Saturday for allegedly committing preparatory acts of terrorism in connection with the New Irish Republican Army.


----------



## Hollie

Islamo-pay to play. 










						IDF raids home of Palestinian terror suspect after deadly stabbing
					

Troops take measurements to prepare to raze house of Khalil Abd al-Khaliq Dweikat, accused of slaying Rabbi Shai Ohayon near Tel Aviv on Wednesday; suspect remanded for 5 days




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




The Israel Defense Forces soldiers raided the West Bank home of a Palestinian suspected of stabbing an Israeli man to death and began planning to demolish the structure, the military said Thursday.

In a predawn operation, Israeli troops measured the home of Khalil Abd al-Khaliq Dweikat, 46, in the northern West Bank village of Rujeeb outside Nablus in order to begin drawing up demolition plans for the structure.


----------



## Hollie

Israel has responded to Islamic terrorist attacks. 










						Israel strikes Gaza after Palestinian terrorists fire rockets | World Israel News
					

'The terrorist organization Hamas bears responsibility for what is happening in and out of the Gaza Strip, and will bear the consequences of terrorist acts against Israeli citizens,' the IDF said.




					worldisraelnews.com
				





The Israeli military says it struck terrorist targets in Gaza, including a weapons manufacturing site, after six rockets were fired from the territory early Friday.

There were no immediate reports of casualties or major damage on either side. But the UN’s Mideast envoy warned that the situation was “rapidly deteriorating” and that life inside the blockaded Palestinian territory had become “unbearable.”


----------



## Hollie

The islamo-bluster is rather pointless but apparently meant to impress the gaggle of Islamic terrorists who suffered their usual humiliation. 











						Hamas: ‘We will exact a heavy price from anyone who lays siege to Gaza’
					

Terror group issues warning after 6 projectiles launched at south in apparent response to earlier Israeli bombing of terror group's sites, followed by 2nd wave of strikes




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





The Hamas terror group warned on Friday morning that it would exact a “heavy price” from anyone who threatened the Gaza Strip, after overnight violence saw a volley of rockets launched toward southern Israel and two rounds of airstrikes on the enclave.

“Whoever lays siege to our people will pay a heavy price in their security and stability,” said Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum, according to Channel 12 news.


----------



## Hollie

Israeli army assists with the erection of a Jordanian flag pole.


----------



## Hollie

A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim. 











						UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
					

Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.




					jewishjournal.com
				





The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.

The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.

So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.


----------



## Hollie

Maybe the Pals will become a mere footnote in history, a footnote on a Wiki page.










						Have the Palestinians Become a “Footnote” In the Middle East?
					

The National Interest spoke to Dalia Dassa Kaye, director of the Middle East program at the RAND Corporation.




					nationalinterest.org
				





Israel and the United Arab Emirates announced last week that they would establish diplomatic relations, making the UAE the third Arab state in history to do so. The deal was a rare victory for President Donald Trump, whose previous Israeli-Palestinian peace plan was rejected by the Palestinians and met with a cold shoulder from Arab states. 


But the agreement long predates the Trump administration. Israel and the UAE have been cooperating quietly for years, prompting some observers to note that their open marriage is no big deal.


----------



## Hollie

As usual, rants and threats are the vehicle of choice for Islamic terrorists. 


*Top PA official promotes terror: “All the types of resistance” are valid “against all expressions of the occupation”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 30, 2020

*Top PA official Jibril Rajoub praises terrorist murderers: They carried out “glorious acts that teach generations”*
Following the peace agreement between the United Arab Emirates and Israel, top PA official Jibril Rajoub stressed to Palestinians that terror is an option in “the struggle” against Israel.

Since Rajoub and other Palestinians have presented terror as an option - after a long period of quiet - there have been two serious Palestinian terror attacks. One Palestinian terrorist stabbed an Israeli man last weekend in Rosh Haayin, wounding him critically, while another murdered an Israeli four days ago in Petach Tikva.

Using the Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror, Rajoub stated that “all the possibilities are open to all the types of resistance”:


----------



## Hollie

The Israeli military was performing some Islamic terrorist attitude adjustment in response to attacks.




*Israel strikes Gaza after Palestinian terrorists fire rockets*
August 28, 2020









						Israel strikes Gaza after Palestinian terrorists fire rockets | World Israel News
					

'The terrorist organization Hamas bears responsibility for what is happening in and out of the Gaza Strip, and will bear the consequences of terrorist acts against Israeli citizens,' the IDF said.




					worldisraelnews.com
				








A ball of fire and smoke rises above buildings during Israeli airstrikes in Khan Yunis, in the southern Gaza Strip, Feb. 24, 2020. (Flash90/Abed Rahim Khatib)


_*“The terrorist organization Hamas bears responsibility for what is happening in and out of the Gaza Strip, and will bear the consequences of terrorist acts against Israeli citizens,” the IDF said in a statement.*_


----------



## Hollie

The speed of light has been exceeded and the earth's magnetic poles have reversed. 






__





						US Israel Flight To UAE - Bing News
					

News from world, national, and local news sources, organized to give you in-depth news coverage of sports, entertainment, business, politics, weather, and more.




					www.bing.com
				





Several top Trump administration officials were on board the plane, escorting Israeli government officials from Tel Aviv to Abu Dhabi for talks with their Emirati counterparts, as part of the White House-brokered plan.


The Boeing 737 was given permission to fly through Saudi Arabian airspace, in a first for Israeli carrier El Al, its captain Tal Becker announced shortly before take-off.


----------



## Mindful

*Israellycool*

Hooky Boo Boo

Remember Abu Hamza al-Masri, the former imam of north London's Finsbury Park mosque, found guilty of terrorism charges?He's back in the news, this time for whining about his prison conditions



About This Website

ISRAELLYCOOL.COM

Terror Preacher Abu Hamza Whines About Having to Eat Kosher Prison Food
Remember Abu Hamza al-Masri, the former imam of north London's Finsbury Park mosque, found guilty of terrorism charges?He's back in the news, this time for whining about his prison conditions


----------



## Hollie

Ok, so what’s the over / under on this latest ceasefire with Islamic terrorists lasting more than two weeks?









						Hamas announces ceasefire understandings with Israel
					

The agreement, according to Hamas, was reached through the Qatari envoy who had mediated.




					m.jpost.com
				





The Israeli military credited the latest ceasefire understandings with Hamas to the near-nightly airstrikes carried out by the Israeli Air Force against some 100 targets belonging to the terror group in the Gaza Strip.

“Over the last weeks, Hamas launched rockets, explosive and arson balloons from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilians. In addition, a number of violent riots were instigated along the Gaza Strip security fence,” the IDF said in a statement. “In response, the IDF struck approximately 100 military targets belonging to Hamas during 19 nights.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ok, so what’s the over / under on this latest ceasefire with Islamic terrorists lasting more than two weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas announces ceasefire understandings with Israel
> 
> 
> The agreement, according to Hamas, was reached through the Qatari envoy who had mediated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli military credited the latest ceasefire understandings with Hamas to the near-nightly airstrikes carried out by the Israeli Air Force against some 100 targets belonging to the terror group in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> “Over the last weeks, Hamas launched rockets, explosive and arson balloons from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilians. In addition, a number of violent riots were instigated along the Gaza Strip security fence,” the IDF said in a statement. “In response, the IDF struck approximately 100 military targets belonging to Hamas during 19 nights.”





Hollie said:


> “In response, the IDF struck approximately 100 military targets belonging to Hamas during 19 nights.”


How many hundreds or thousands of Hamas targets has Israel struck and Hamas is still here?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so what’s the over / under on this latest ceasefire with Islamic terrorists lasting more than two weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas announces ceasefire understandings with Israel
> 
> 
> The agreement, according to Hamas, was reached through the Qatari envoy who had mediated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli military credited the latest ceasefire understandings with Hamas to the near-nightly airstrikes carried out by the Israeli Air Force against some 100 targets belonging to the terror group in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> “Over the last weeks, Hamas launched rockets, explosive and arson balloons from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilians. In addition, a number of violent riots were instigated along the Gaza Strip security fence,” the IDF said in a statement. “In response, the IDF struck approximately 100 military targets belonging to Hamas during 19 nights.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “In response, the IDF struck approximately 100 military targets belonging to Hamas during 19 nights.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many hundreds or thousands of Hamas targets has Israel struck and Hamas is still here?
Click to expand...


Odd, because you were crying a river of tears when Israel decided to get serious about the Islamic terrorist threat in 2014.

How has that Hamas Charter worked out for Hamas?


Israel is still here


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. What’s next? Will Arabs be occupying lands occupied by the Pals?


*PA fears UAE-Israel peace is birth of “Arab Zionists”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 1, 2020

*Erekat: Arab support for Israel is “forbidden” “Zionist thinking” *
*PA/PLO campaigns to stop Arab states joining UAE’s peace with Israel*
*Fatah’s fear: “This will open the door for [Arab] states that have aspirations but are embarrassed to a certain degree, and it will encourage some of the remaining states to hurry towards normalization – with whom? With the Israeli entity that is stealing the Al-Aqsa Mosque”*
The PLO’s chief negotiator and Executive Committee Secretary Saeb Erekat has expressed the PA’s concern that the United Arab Emirates’ peace agreement with Israel will lead to other Arab states reaching similar “normalization” agreements. The PA sees such agreements as disregard for the PA’s demand that Palestinian “self-determination and independence” must precede any formation of Arab friendly relations with Israel.
Criticizing the UAE and others for admiring Israel and establishing relations with it, Erekat described the recent peace agreement as “a public birth for the Arab Zionists,” and added that expressing admiration or support for Israel – such as putting the Israeli flag on one’s shirt – is “forbidden”  “Zionist thinking”:


----------



## Ropey

865 pages when only one post is necessary.

They are Arabs from Arabia. They are genetically identical to Arabs...thus ... Arabs.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
> 
> 
> Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.
> 
> The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.





Hollie said:


> So they rejected several peace offers,


Not true. There has never been a peace offer.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
> 
> 
> Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.
> 
> The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. There has never been a peace offer.
Click to expand...


This again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
> 
> 
> Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.
> 
> The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. There has never been a peace offer.
Click to expand...

You mean except for the peace offers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
> 
> 
> Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.
> 
> The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. There has never been a peace offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean except for the peace offers.
Click to expand...

They have all been offers to surrender.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
> 
> 
> Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.
> 
> The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. There has never been a peace offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean except for the peace offers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They have all been offers to surrender.
Click to expand...


Meanwhile, "Palestine" gets smaller and smaller.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good read. An encapsulation of the rather obvious mistake made by the Palis; that they could forever be the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE and the Loss of Patience With Palestinians
> 
> 
> Palestinians assumed borrowed time could be made infinite. Now, they have nothing to show for their rejectionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clock may have finally run out on the Palestinians. The risk they took was playing Russian roulette with time; they were never in a hurry to build a state, and were far more interested in destroying the Jewish one next door.
> 
> The Palestinians made a bet with their future. Such high-stakes wagers always are mistakes. They counted on the world never tiring of its eternal hatred of Jews. That certainty made them perpetual victims of a Jewish state. The convenience of anti-Semitism enabled them to localize and leverage the world’s oldest prejudice.
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers, launched intifadas, fired rockets, stabbed Jews and tourists, stalled negotiations and placed their future on permanent pause until the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea would, finally, be Jew-free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they rejected several peace offers,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. There has never been a peace offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean except for the peace offers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They have all been offers to surrender.
Click to expand...

Not true.


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## Hollie

Gee-had denied.










						Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
					

An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The Pals are scrambling to correct the phony numbers they presented earlier.

What a bunch of carnival barker charlatans. 


*Caught red handed by PMW, PA rushes to change its online financial reports*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Sep 2, 2020

After Palestinian Media Watch exposed the discrepancies between the Arabic language monthly budget performance reports and its English language translation, the Palestinian Authority rushed to change all five reports in which the distortions appeared.

Last week, PMW showed how the Arabic language version of the financial reports published by the PA Ministry of Finance, artificially included a reference to the “Commission of Prisoners and Released Prisoners,” thereby creating the impression that the PA is openly funding that body. In contrast, the English language version of the same reports expunged the reference to the commission.

Since PMW’s report obviously embarrassed the PA and could bring censure of the European donor countries who have demanded full financial transparency, the PA has retroactively altered all the reports in which the distortions appeared. Were one to now check the site of the PA Ministry of Finance, no such discrepancy would appear.

*Original* PA Monthly budget performance report for the month of June 2020





The revised Arabic language reports now reflect the English version of the reports.


*Revised* PA Monthly budget performance report for the month of June 2020


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


There is no border around Gaza.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
Click to expand...


Just a fence to keep the jihadi terrorists out of Israel.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the article could have been more specific about the the protective fence was along the Israeli border. 

Indeed, the article notes, ''An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence and infiltrated into Israel...''


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the article could have been more specific about the the protective fence was along the Israeli border.
> 
> Indeed, the article notes, ''An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence and infiltrated into Israel...''
Click to expand...

Define "into Israel" when there is no border there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the article could have been more specific about the the protective fence was along the Israeli border.
> 
> Indeed, the article notes, ''An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence and infiltrated into Israel...''
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define "into Israel" when there is no border there.
Click to expand...


No border there?

Link?


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## Hollie

The EU has generously provided $10.62 million for the Islamic terrorist welfare fund.










						EU Fronts PA $10.6 Million to Meet July Salaries While Hamas Prisoners Get $60 Canteen Boost
					

The European Union on Wednesday provided a contribution of €9 million ($10.62 million) to the July salaries of health and education workers and the pensions of more than 37,500 Palestinian Authority




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The European Union on Wednesday provided a contribution of €9 million ($10.62 million) to the July salaries of health and education workers and the pensions of more than 37,500 Palestinian Authority civil servants, according to an EU press release. Meanwhile, Hamas terrorists in Israeli prisons are now eligible to receive an extra NIS 200 ($59.31) per month from their families to purchase goods in the prison canteens.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the article could have been more specific about the the protective fence was along the Israeli border.
> 
> Indeed, the article notes, ''An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence and infiltrated into Israel...''
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define "into Israel" when there is no border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No border there?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Sure. There is only an armistice line. There is no border between two countries.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the article could have been more specific about the the protective fence was along the Israeli border.
> 
> Indeed, the article notes, ''An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence and infiltrated into Israel...''
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define "into Israel" when there is no border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No border there?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. There is only an armistice line. There is no border between two countries.
Click to expand...

Indeed, an undated, unsourced picture confirms nothing.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas and Israel agree end to cross-border bombing in Gaza
					

A Qatari-broken truce commits Israel to easing its 13-year-old blockade of the Palestinian territory




					www.theguardian.com
				





Agence France-Presse
Mon 31 Aug 2020 15.57 EDTLast modified on Mon 31 Aug 2020 16.26 EDT

Gaza’s Islamist rulers Hamas have announced they have reached a Qatari-mediated deal with Israel to end more than three weeks of cross-border exchanges of fire.

After talks with Qatari envoy Mohammed al-Emadi, “an understanding was reached to rein in the latest escalation and end [Israeli] aggression against our people,” said the office of the Palestinian territory’s Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar.


----------



## Hollie

How nice. A conference of angry Pals is in the works. On the agenda is the expected whining and moaning about Arab nations and their thawing of relations with Israel.

Oh, and the conference will address the atrocious _faux_ _pas_ committed by something called the “PLO” which has apparently neglected to correctly recognize the the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and the Islamic Gee-had.










						Terror Summit to Convene in Beirut on Thursday
					

The heads of all the terror factions in the Palestinian Authority and Hamas will be meeting in person and virtually in Lebanon.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The secretaries-general of all “Palestinian” organizations that are members of the PLO will convene in Beirut on Thursday, along with senior representatives of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad.


The conference will address a number of issues, including the “Palestinian” opposition to the US-formulated Deal of the Century, the formation of a front against the normalization processes between Israel and the Arabs, a re-examination of the Oslo Accords and the demand to revoke the recognition of Israel.

Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, the conference will deal with a reorganization in the PLO, where Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are not currently represented.


----------



## Ropey

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee-had denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armed Palestinian arrested after infiltrating into Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence near Kibbutz Ein Haslosha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the article could have been more specific about the the protective fence was along the Israeli border.
> 
> Indeed, the article notes, ''An explosive device and a knife were found near the man who crossed the border fence and infiltrated into Israel...''
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Define "into Israel" when there is no border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No border there?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. There is only an armistice line. There is no border between two countries.
Click to expand...


  Of course there are no boundaries.

Not until Eretz Yisrael Hashlema is created by G-d. Israel has never had control of all of G-d's granted lands.  Thus, this is a job for G-d.

Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1:4 - The land G-d gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (South to North) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (West to East).

So, what land has G-d stated belongs to the 12 tribes of Israel?

All of the land modern Israel currently possesses, plus all of the land of the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Israel currently possesses only a fraction of the land G-d has promised.




While the "Palestinians" are Arabs from Arabia.  Palestina is Roman, not Arabic. Rome's control of nomenclature ended when the Roman Empire dissolved.

What a great time to be alive and watching the works.


----------



## Hollie

The Palis are responsible for their self-created disasters?  What an audacious idea.










						Egyptian Researcher Dr. Said Okasha: The Palestinians Are Responsible for Their Own Tragedy
					

Egyptian researcher Dr. Said Okasha, an expert in Israel studies at the Al-Ahram Research Center, said in an August 24, 2020 interview on Dubai TV (UAE) that...




					www.youtube.com.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud's angry. Apparently, he thinks others beside Pals have been speaking for Pals. 

I thought it was interesting that Mahmoud's rant-fest was delivered to ''heads of the Palestinian groups in Ramallah and Beirut''. Is Beirut where the Pal ''leadership'' warehouses their welfare fraud assets?





			Palestine's Abbas: 'No one authorised to speak on our behalf'
		



Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has called for a comprehensive national dialogue, and said the Fatah and Hamas movements must initiate a dialogue to endorse ways to end the division according to the principle of "one people and one political system".






© [File: Alaa Badarneh/Pool via Reuters] The Palestinian Authority and resistance factions have denounced the UAE-Israel deal, saying it does not serve the Palestinian cause and ignores the rights of Palestinians [File: Alaa Badarneh/Pool via Reuters]

During a video conference on Thursday with heads of the Palestinian groups in Ramallah and Beirut, Abbas said: "From now on, no one is authorised to speak on our behalf. We only speak for our cause".


----------



## Sixties Fan

Pure antisemitic cartoon from Hamas
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Now this is pretty darn funny. Mahmoud “_Emir of Mahmoud’istan_” Abbas is calling for a “new strategy for resistance and liberation”. I suspect that really means a concerted effort to extort more welfare money from the international community.

Abbas ranted something about, “Although Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not yet part of the PLO, Abbas said that “the Palestine Liberation Organization will remain the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”

Oh, my. The PLO? Why beat that corpse? The PLO is not just dead but has joined _eohippus_ as a Montanan fossil. The PLO fun club most recently met in 2018 which was the first meeting held since 1996.










						Abbas forum decries ‘dagger in the back of Palestinians’
					

AMMAN: Palestinian nationalists and Islamic leaders met in response to a call by President Mahmoud Abbas for a show of unity, outlining plans to forge ahead with a “new strategy for resistance and liberation.” Leaders of Palestinian factions met on Thursday at the Ramallah presidential...




					www.arabnews.com
				




Hamadeh Faraneh, a member of the Palestine National Council, told Arab News that the Palestinian leadership had shown that “it is possible to build on this unprecedented meeting and come back with practical solutions that end the split, accomplish reconciliation and re-establish the PLO with all parties and factions in it.”

Faraneh said that of the 14 speakers at the meeting eight were in Ramallah and six in Beirut. “The key will be the next steps that will include a strategy to deal with the challenges of the US plan and normalization.”



I suppose the Beirut based contingent of *Pali Welfare Fraud Intl. Inc., *were too busy with their administrative duties to attend the Freak Show. After all, with the PLO splintered into the “Palestine National Council (PNC)”, something called the “Executive Committee“©, something else called the “Central Council”®️and something called The “Palestine Liberation Army (PLA)”, well a meeting once every two decades is all these fine folks can manage.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey

P F Tinmore said:


>



3 more real countries declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

What the Romans once called 'Palestina' is still in a virtual state and a virtual state is the textbook definition of instability.

Still,  the Persian Empire, Roman Empire, Arabs, Crusaders and the Ottoman Empire dissolved long ago and so did their constituent nomenclatures for the land.  The Ottomans called the Israel arena 'Southern Syria'.

Thus "Palestinians" are simply genetic Arabs from Arabia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian-American Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib Wins Michigan Democratic Primary | Days Of Palestine
					

US Representative Rashida Tlaib on Wednesday emerged victorious from the Democratic primary election in her home state of Michigan, continuing her political career as the first Palestinian American US




					daysofpalestine.ps
				









Tlaib, a member of the “squad” of four first-term congresswomen of color who have drawn attention for their liberal views and distaste for President Donald Trump, scored a convincing victory over Detroit City Council President Brenda Jones.

According to The New York Times, Tlaib had 66 percent of the vote to Jones’ 34 percent with 90 percent of votes counted.

Jones had criticized Tlaib as being too divisive.

“The work continues,” Tlaib tweeted following her victory. “Onward.”

Upon her first election victory in 2018, Tlaib became one of the first two Muslim women elected to Congress, as she was sworn into the US House of Representatives in the same year as Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, another member of the “squad”.

Tlaib has become well-known for her Palestinian advocacy inside Congress, showing up to this year’s State of the Union in a traditional thobe and at one point being banned from entering Israel due to her activism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian-American Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib Wins Michigan Democratic Primary | Days Of Palestine
> 
> 
> US Representative Rashida Tlaib on Wednesday emerged victorious from the Democratic primary election in her home state of Michigan, continuing her political career as the first Palestinian American US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daysofpalestine.ps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tlaib, a member of the “squad” of four first-term congresswomen of color who have drawn attention for their liberal views and distaste for President Donald Trump, scored a convincing victory over Detroit City Council President Brenda Jones.
> 
> According to The New York Times, Tlaib had 66 percent of the vote to Jones’ 34 percent with 90 percent of votes counted.
> 
> Jones had criticized Tlaib as being too divisive.
> 
> “The work continues,” Tlaib tweeted following her victory. “Onward.”
> 
> Upon her first election victory in 2018, Tlaib became one of the first two Muslim women elected to Congress, as she was sworn into the US House of Representatives in the same year as Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, another member of the “squad”.
> 
> Tlaib has become well-known for her Palestinian advocacy inside Congress, showing up to this year’s State of the Union in a traditional thobe and at one point being banned from entering Israel due to her activism.



That's awesome! I'm sure she'll be just as successful as the losers...err...Palestinians back home.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Proportionate response? Please. ROFLMAO


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


“Cultural appropriation”. How typical. Stealing 1980’s vintage MTV video production.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Tlaib’s Bill Targets Trump’s Opportunity Zones Scam*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


That's telling 'em. 

BTW, they were all reelected with about 2/3 of the vote.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's telling 'em.
> 
> BTW, they were all reelected with about 2/3 of the vote.
Click to expand...

Radical leftist identity politics. BTW, Ilhan Omar is not Pal'istanian.


----------



## Hollie

Comedy gold.

Ismail ''_I'm not allowed in Gaza_'' Haniyeh, was making cheap threats from his ''safe place'' in Lebanon. 











						Rallying masses in Lebanon, Hamas leader threatens rockets on Tel Aviv
					

Ismail Haniyeh given hero's welcome at Ein El-Hilweh refugee camp near Sidon, but also faces some criticism on social media for possibly adding to Lebanon's woes




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




BEIRUT, Lebanon — The leader of the Palestinian terror group Hamas boasted on Sunday that his organization could hit Tel Aviv and beyond with missiles, as he made a triumphant appearance in a Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon. 

Haniyeh was criticized during his visit by some in Lebanon on social media. *One post sarcastically asked whether it would be better for him to threaten Israel from the West Bank, which is ruled by the Fatah-dominated PA and with whom Hamas has a longstanding feud.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


That "economic zone" thing is a scam. I was doing some production upgrades for one of these economic improvement companies. What it was, was millions of dollars going to some rich fuckers and a handful of minimum wage jobs came out the other end.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That "economic zone" thing is a scam. I was doing some production upgrades for one of these economic improvement companies. What it was, was millions of dollars going to some rich fuckers and a handful of minimum wage jobs came out the other end.
Click to expand...

No reason to accept any of that as true.


----------



## Hollie

In the diseased mind of the Pals, heroes are those who perpetrate acts of international Islamic terrorism. 












						Palestinians praise killers of Israeli Olympic athletes | World Israel News
					

Fatah organization headed by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas posts memorial to terrorists on the anniversary of the Munich Massacre.




					worldisraelnews.com
				





The Fatah organization headed by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday marked the 48th anniversary of the massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics by posting a memorial praising the terrorists who carried out the brutal attack that shocked the world.

“On this day, the fighters of Fatah’s ‘Black September’ movement carried out Operation Munich, which embodied the meaning of courage and boldness of the Palestinian resistance and his self-sacrifice for the homeland and the cause,” Fatah said in the post on their Facebook page.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Donating to Harvard, instead of taking care of its population........]


Even though the Palestinian Authority gets virtually all of its money from the West and it is always begging for more, somehow it found in its budget $2.6 million to give to Harvard. And by some sort of crazy coincidence, now Saeb Erakat is free to push his lies on today's Harvard students.









						What a coincidence! The PLO gives $2.6M to Harvard, Harvard hires PLO official Saeb Erakat as a fellow!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

This morning, the PLO "foreign minister" Dr. Riyad Malki gave a speech to the Arab League where he expressed the Palestinian frustration at the lack of response by the Arab League to the UAE's decision to make Israel an ally.

But he went further than that.

Malki said that usually any joint Arab actions at the Arab League supporting the Palestinians were  "only for show, not implementation...But there was neither commitment nor respect for these decisions." 

He called this "duplicity" and said that it put "Palestine" in many embarrassing situations, particularly when non-Arab countries would note that what they hear behind closed doors from Arab governments contradict their Arab League commitments (speaking of payments to the PLO and "supporting Jerusalem.") 

"We would boast about the Arab resolutions," Malki said in his speech, "only to be told that those were nothing more than just ink on paper." 

(full article online)










						Palestinian anger at the Arab League explodes in public
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Ropey

And the worst is yet to come for the Hamas.   The non Arab Muslims will not touch this ...

For "Palestinians" are genetic Arabs from Arabia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*People of Israel vs Ahed Tamimi. How a teenage girl became a Palestinian hero*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF: * She was a Rabble Rouser, who hhad no dag in the conflict. She was punished under International Humanitarian Law.



P F Tinmore said:


> *People of Israel vs Ahed Tamimi. How a teenage girl became a Palestinian hero*


*(COMMENT)*

She caused a disturbance.  She assaulted the Israeli Border Police.  She was convicted and punished as prescribed by Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Like all the Arab Palestinian Heroes, she was a criminal.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *People of Israel vs Ahed Tamimi. How a teenage girl became a Palestinian hero*




Seems better defined as “*People in Gaza and the West Bank vs. Their Children” *

You won’t want to address it but children are a commodity routinely used by Hamas and Fatah in the gee-had against Israel.

Hamas has cancelled school and sent them to the border riots.









						Hamas cancels school in Gaza, sends kids to border riots
					

The IDF intelligence has confirmed that the Hamas terror organization, which rules the Gaza Strip, has cancelled schools in Gaza on Wednesday and is instead sending the children to participate in t…




					www.jwire.com.au
				





Hamas has used UNRWA schools to wage gee-had.









						UN admits Palestinians fired rockets from UNRWA schools - UN Watch
					

The UN finally investigated the Palestinian storing of rockets in UNRWA schools and their use of the schools to launch rockets against Israel, all of which constitute grave violations of the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law. Key findings gleaned from the UN report: Hamas...



					unwatch.org
				





The Islamic terrorist version of the Hitler Youth share a common theme.









						An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
					

It's not like your kids' typical summer camp.




					www.businessinsider.com
				












						NGOs call for public support in ending use of Palestinian child soldiers
					

An estimated 10,000 children are trained in Gazan terrorist camps each year, and that at least 160 have died digging terror tunnels into Israel.




					m.jpost.com
				





Fatah is notorious for exploiting children in the service of Jew hating.





__





						Children & Education | PMW Translations
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				












						Child abuse: Fatah Facebook promotes child soldiers and child martyrdom! | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah reposts and pins video of boy who wanted to “shoot Jews” and “die for Jerusalem”




					palwatch.org
				





When you raise generation after generation of children you train to behave like Death Cultists, it’s not surprising that you perpetuate inadequacy and incompetence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * She was a Rabble Rouser, who hhad no dag in the conflict. She was punished under International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *People of Israel vs Ahed Tamimi. How a teenage girl became a Palestinian hero*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She caused a disturbance.  She assaulted the Israeli Border Police.  She was convicted and punished as prescribed by Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Like all the Arab Palestinian Heroes, she was a criminal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.

Why am I not impressed?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * She was a Rabble Rouser, who hhad no dag in the conflict. She was punished under International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *People of Israel vs Ahed Tamimi. How a teenage girl became a Palestinian hero*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She caused a disturbance.  She assaulted the Israeli Border Police.  She was convicted and punished as prescribed by Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Like all the Arab Palestinian Heroes, she was a criminal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Why am I not impressed?
Click to expand...

You’re unimpressive.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are shifting into panic mode. They're getting no cooperation from Arab states in their hope to hope to negate the UAE - Israel agreement to normalize relations. 











						Palestinian FM fails to convince Arab states to condemn Israel-UAE deal | World Israel News
					

The Palestinians have repeatedly slammed the U.S.-brokered Israel-UAE deal, but the Arab League refused to support a resolution condemning the deal.




					worldisraelnews.com
				





The Palestinian foreign minister Wednesday unsuccessfully called on Arab states to dismiss a deal between the United Arab Emirates and Israel to normalize relations, describing the agreement scheduled to be finalized next week as “an earthquake.”

The UAE and Israel announced the deal to establish full diplomatic relations on Aug. 13. It reflected a changing Middle East in which shared concerns about archenemy Iran have largely overtaken traditional Arab support for the Palestinians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
​*kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to _​_try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._​​As I originally stated, young adults are handled under the concepts so dissimilar to that expressed in the Geneva Convention. It is a standardized "OFFICIAL" procedure.   It is by no means an erratic unofficial process. 

I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> Why am I not impressed?





Hollie said:


> You’re unimpressive.


*(COMMENT)*

The question becomes: What is "fair and equitable" as a duty of Israel to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety?  The idea of "normal" tends _(inevitably)_ to be based on what moral or political practices are acceptable → "at that time."  In the case of the juvenile delinquent Ahed Tamimi, she is both a "victim" of being affected by Arab Palestinian incitement to disorderly activity, as well as being the "perpetrator" of disorderly activity.  This became a case of discontent that was passed down from generation to generation with no real demonstrated pride in her culture.  Tamimi only exhibits a disgruntled view of the political environment that was created through the accumulative effect dissatisfaction from generations before her.

The actions of Ahed Tamimi - celebrated by the Arab Palestinians - were NOT a case of Tamimi's refusal to comply with certain civil laws as a peaceful form of political protest.  That associated came afterward as a matter of unscrupulous exploitation of the event leading to her detainment, apprehension, and juvenile processing.   Tamimi was artificially shaped into a spot heroine; not because of what she did right, but rather what she did wrong.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> ​*kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to _​_try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._​​As I originally stated, young adults are handled under the concepts so dissimilar to that expressed in the Geneva Convention. It is a standardized "OFFICIAL" procedure.   It is by no means an erratic unofficial process.
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> Why am I not impressed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re unimpressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question becomes: What is "fair and equitable" as a duty of Israel to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety?  The idea of "normal" tends _(inevitably)_ to be based on what moral or political practices are acceptable → "at that time."  In the case of the juvenile delinquent Ahed Tamimi, she is both a "victim" of being affected by Arab Palestinian incitement to disorderly activity, as well as being the "perpetrator" of disorderly activity.  This became a case of discontent that was passed down from generation to generation with no real demonstrated pride in her culture.  Tamimi only exhibits a disgruntled view of the political environment that was created through the accumulative effect dissatisfaction from generations before her.
> 
> The actions of Ahed Tamimi - celebrated by the Arab Palestinians - were NOT a case of Tamimi's refusal to comply with certain civil laws as a peaceful form of political protest.  That associated came afterward as a matter of unscrupulous exploitation of the event leading to her detainment, apprehension, and juvenile processing.   Tamimi was artificially shaped into a spot heroine; not because of what she did right, but rather what she did wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.


She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.

Your typical slime post.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.


*(COMMENT)*

Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world and see if you don't get arrested for:  Assault and Battery on a Police Officer _(or equivalent)_.

I take it - that you live in the US someplace.  Slap and Police Officer in the face for whatever reason, you are going to jail.  It is just that simple.  

The juvenile delinquent was angry over the use of non-lethal devices _(shot with a rubber bullet)_ for his advance in an orchestrated demonstration. Tamimi, flanked left and right by friends, taking videos, intentionally making aggressive moves towards the IDF Soldier. She was clearly the antagonist and was attempting to provoke the incident for media exploitation.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
​*AND ONE MORE THING​*_!_​​*(COMMENT)*

The use of children by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) leaders in the West Bank is yet another demonstration of how the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters will turn to the use of children out in front.  Almost an example of Human Shield, except the HoAP Adults didn't both to get even close, except to operate the HD quality camera to record the incident.  Well behind Tamimi and her two friends. _ (This not being an isolated incident.)_



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> ​*kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to _​_try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._​​As I originally stated, young adults are handled under the concepts so dissimilar to that expressed in the Geneva Convention. It is a standardized "OFFICIAL" procedure.   It is by no means an erratic unofficial process.
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> Why am I not impressed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re unimpressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question becomes: What is "fair and equitable" as a duty of Israel to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety?  The idea of "normal" tends _(inevitably)_ to be based on what moral or political practices are acceptable → "at that time."  In the case of the juvenile delinquent Ahed Tamimi, she is both a "victim" of being affected by Arab Palestinian incitement to disorderly activity, as well as being the "perpetrator" of disorderly activity.  This became a case of discontent that was passed down from generation to generation with no real demonstrated pride in her culture.  Tamimi only exhibits a disgruntled view of the political environment that was created through the accumulative effect dissatisfaction from generations before her.
> 
> The actions of Ahed Tamimi - celebrated by the Arab Palestinians - were NOT a case of Tamimi's refusal to comply with certain civil laws as a peaceful form of political protest.  That associated came afterward as a matter of unscrupulous exploitation of the event leading to her detainment, apprehension, and juvenile processing.   Tamimi was artificially shaped into a spot heroine; not because of what she did right, but rather what she did wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much Hamas paid her to slap the officer....


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world and see if you don't get arrested for:  Assault and Battery on a Police Officer _(or equivalent)_.
> 
> I take it - that you live in the US someplace.  Slap and Police Officer in the face for whatever reason, you are going to jail.  It is just that simple.
> 
> The juvenile delinquent was angry over the use of non-lethal devices _(shot with a rubber bullet)_ for his advance in an orchestrated demonstration. Tamimi, flanked left and right by friends, taking videos, intentionally making aggressive moves towards the IDF Soldier. She was clearly the antagonist and was attempting to provoke the incident for media exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world


Israel is not a part of the civilizes world. Their goons are criminals operating under the color of law.

What laws do they enforce? Theft? Killing? Kidnapping? Shooting an unarmed 14 yo kid in the face?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> ​​*AND ONE MORE THING*​
> 
> ​_!_​
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> The use of children by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) leaders in the West Bank is yet another demonstration of how the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters will turn to the use of children out in front.  Almost an example of Human Shield, except the HoAP Adults didn't both to get even close, except to operate the HD quality camera to record the incident.  Well behind Tamimi and her two friends. _ (This not being an isolated incident.)_
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> of how the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters


Oh geese, another name calling rant.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> ​*kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to _​_try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._​​As I originally stated, young adults are handled under the concepts so dissimilar to that expressed in the Geneva Convention. It is a standardized "OFFICIAL" procedure.   It is by no means an erratic unofficial process.
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> Why am I not impressed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re unimpressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question becomes: What is "fair and equitable" as a duty of Israel to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety?  The idea of "normal" tends _(inevitably)_ to be based on what moral or political practices are acceptable → "at that time."  In the case of the juvenile delinquent Ahed Tamimi, she is both a "victim" of being affected by Arab Palestinian incitement to disorderly activity, as well as being the "perpetrator" of disorderly activity.  This became a case of discontent that was passed down from generation to generation with no real demonstrated pride in her culture.  Tamimi only exhibits a disgruntled view of the political environment that was created through the accumulative effect dissatisfaction from generations before her.
> 
> The actions of Ahed Tamimi - celebrated by the Arab Palestinians - were NOT a case of Tamimi's refusal to comply with certain civil laws as a peaceful form of political protest.  That associated came afterward as a matter of unscrupulous exploitation of the event leading to her detainment, apprehension, and juvenile processing.   Tamimi was artificially shaped into a spot heroine; not because of what she did right, but rather what she did wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
Click to expand...

Is that why the most televised family in the middle east has no proof of that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world and see if you don't get arrested for:  Assault and Battery on a Police Officer _(or equivalent)_.
> 
> I take it - that you live in the US someplace.  Slap and Police Officer in the face for whatever reason, you are going to jail.  It is just that simple.
> 
> The juvenile delinquent was angry over the use of non-lethal devices _(shot with a rubber bullet)_ for his advance in an orchestrated demonstration. Tamimi, flanked left and right by friends, taking videos, intentionally making aggressive moves towards the IDF Soldier. She was clearly the antagonist and was attempting to provoke the incident for media exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a part of the civilizes world. Their goons are criminals operating under the color of law.
> 
> What laws do they enforce? Theft? Killing? Kidnapping? Shooting an unarmed 14 yo kid in the face?
Click to expand...


Again the anti-Israel camp always makes outlandish accusations without any backup,
as if just making those makes the case, and usually excuse the exact crimes done by Arabs.

Israel is at the front of the civilized world -ahead of Western nations, and certainly any Arab country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

khalida jarrar


RoccoR said:


> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._


*Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
Click to expand...


For facilitating criminal activity.
One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.

Khalida Jarrar's work:


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world and see if you don't get arrested for:  Assault and Battery on a Police Officer _(or equivalent)_.
> 
> I take it - that you live in the US someplace.  Slap and Police Officer in the face for whatever reason, you are going to jail.  It is just that simple.
> 
> The juvenile delinquent was angry over the use of non-lethal devices _(shot with a rubber bullet)_ for his advance in an orchestrated demonstration. Tamimi, flanked left and right by friends, taking videos, intentionally making aggressive moves towards the IDF Soldier. She was clearly the antagonist and was attempting to provoke the incident for media exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a part of the civilizes world. Their goons are criminals operating under the color of law.
> 
> What laws do they enforce? Theft? Killing? Kidnapping? Shooting an unarmed 14 yo kid in the face?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again the anti-Israel camp always makes outlandish accusations without any backup,
> as if just making those makes the case, and usually excuse the exact crimes done by Arabs.
> 
> Israel is at the front of the civilized world -ahead of Western nations, and certainly any Arab country.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> ​*kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to _​_try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._​​As I originally stated, young adults are handled under the concepts so dissimilar to that expressed in the Geneva Convention. It is a standardized "OFFICIAL" procedure.   It is by no means an erratic unofficial process.
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> Why am I not impressed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re unimpressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question becomes: What is "fair and equitable" as a duty of Israel to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety?  The idea of "normal" tends _(inevitably)_ to be based on what moral or political practices are acceptable → "at that time."  In the case of the juvenile delinquent Ahed Tamimi, she is both a "victim" of being affected by Arab Palestinian incitement to disorderly activity, as well as being the "perpetrator" of disorderly activity.  This became a case of discontent that was passed down from generation to generation with no real demonstrated pride in her culture.  Tamimi only exhibits a disgruntled view of the political environment that was created through the accumulative effect dissatisfaction from generations before her.
> 
> The actions of Ahed Tamimi - celebrated by the Arab Palestinians - were NOT a case of Tamimi's refusal to comply with certain civil laws as a peaceful form of political protest.  That associated came afterward as a matter of unscrupulous exploitation of the event leading to her detainment, apprehension, and juvenile processing.   Tamimi was artificially shaped into a spot heroine; not because of what she did right, but rather what she did wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that why the most televised family in the middle east has no proof of that?
Click to expand...

Proof of what?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world and see if you don't get arrested for:  Assault and Battery on a Police Officer _(or equivalent)_.
> 
> I take it - that you live in the US someplace.  Slap and Police Officer in the face for whatever reason, you are going to jail.  It is just that simple.
> 
> The juvenile delinquent was angry over the use of non-lethal devices _(shot with a rubber bullet)_ for his advance in an orchestrated demonstration. Tamimi, flanked left and right by friends, taking videos, intentionally making aggressive moves towards the IDF Soldier. She was clearly the antagonist and was attempting to provoke the incident for media exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a part of the civilizes world. Their goons are criminals operating under the color of law.
> 
> What laws do they enforce? Theft? Killing? Kidnapping? Shooting an unarmed 14 yo kid in the face?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again the anti-Israel camp always makes outlandish accusations without any backup,
> as if just making those makes the case, and usually excuse the exact crimes done by Arabs.
> 
> Israel is at the front of the civilized world -ahead of Western nations, and certainly any Arab country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> ​*kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to _​_try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._​​As I originally stated, young adults are handled under the concepts so dissimilar to that expressed in the Geneva Convention. It is a standardized "OFFICIAL" procedure.   It is by no means an erratic unofficial process.
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted in Israel's kangaroo court.
> Why am I not impressed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re unimpressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question becomes: What is "fair and equitable" as a duty of Israel to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety?  The idea of "normal" tends _(inevitably)_ to be based on what moral or political practices are acceptable → "at that time."  In the case of the juvenile delinquent Ahed Tamimi, she is both a "victim" of being affected by Arab Palestinian incitement to disorderly activity, as well as being the "perpetrator" of disorderly activity.  This became a case of discontent that was passed down from generation to generation with no real demonstrated pride in her culture.  Tamimi only exhibits a disgruntled view of the political environment that was created through the accumulative effect dissatisfaction from generations before her.
> 
> The actions of Ahed Tamimi - celebrated by the Arab Palestinians - were NOT a case of Tamimi's refusal to comply with certain civil laws as a peaceful form of political protest.  That associated came afterward as a matter of unscrupulous exploitation of the event leading to her detainment, apprehension, and juvenile processing.   Tamimi was artificially shaped into a spot heroine; not because of what she did right, but rather what she did wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I object to the view that Ahed Tamimi was anything other than a juvenile delinquent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that why the most televised family in the middle east has no proof of that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Proof of what?
Click to expand...


Proof that an Israeli injured him, where is that?
So much footage, yet zero account of that incident, only claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
Click to expand...

I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
Click to expand...


Then why do you have to change the subject?

See, you don't do discussion,
only outlandish accusations.


----------



## rylah

Idiots, no other word for this...









						PA Calls Israel’s Wheelchair Accessibility Plans for Cave of the Patriarchs a ‘War Crime’
					

Palestinian Authority officials claim that allowing the disabled to have access to the holy site is a provocation of the Muslims’ sensibilities.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Hollie

It's an expectation that the Palis will glorify mass murder / suicide. I just can't understand why some portions of the global community still donate welfare money to these psychopaths. 



*Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah*










						Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah | PMW Analysis
					

Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely.




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 10, 2020



Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely. Not surprisingly, a filler on Hamas TV expressed support and joy over suicide bombings in Israel, and taught that imprisoned terrorists and murderers will also – just like the suicide bomber - be rewarded for their actions by Allah.
In the filler, actors portraying imprisoned Palestinian terrorists cheer “the worst suicide bombing in Tel Aviv” as the news of it is broadcast on Israeli TV. But in the midst of their rejoicing and shouts of “Allahu Akbar” – “Allah is greatest” – one prisoner is crying. While he weeps over the missed opportunity to carry out the attack with the suicide bomber as he had planned, a fellow terrorist assures him that he too will be rewarded for his actions by Allah:


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
Click to expand...

There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.
Click to expand...

Law enforcement and the airlines developed methods to deter that islamic terrorist tactic.


----------



## Hollie

Infidel justice waits patiently. 











						Norwegian Police Arrest Palestinian Terrorist Wanted for Deadly 1982 Attack on Paris Kosher Restaurant
					

Police and emergency services personnel arriving at the Chez Jo Goldenberg restaurant in Paris, following the Aug. 9, 1982 terrorist …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Police in Norway on Wednesday announced the arrest of a suspect in the deadly attack by a radical Palestinian terrorist faction on a kosher restaurant in Paris in 1982 that claimed the lives of six people.

A spokeswoman for the PST — Norway’s counterterrorism agency — told the _AFP_ news agency that a man in his sixties had been arrested in the southern town of Skien “on a European arrest warrant issued by the French authorities.”


----------



## Hollie

I was on one of those planes hijacked by Palestinian terrorists 50 years ago, so hear me out | Opinion
					

Fifty years ago this week, four planes were hijacked by a terrorist group called the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Dr. Roni Raab of Boca Raton was on one of them. So on the anniversary of the event, there’s something he wants to say.




					www.sun-sentinel.com
				




I was on one of those planes hijacked by Palestinian terrorists 50 years ago, so hear me out


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a criminal after her cousin was shot in the face.
> 
> Your typical slime post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world and see if you don't get arrested for:  Assault and Battery on a Police Officer _(or equivalent)_.
> 
> I take it - that you live in the US someplace.  Slap and Police Officer in the face for whatever reason, you are going to jail.  It is just that simple.
> 
> The juvenile delinquent was angry over the use of non-lethal devices _(shot with a rubber bullet)_ for his advance in an orchestrated demonstration. Tamimi, flanked left and right by friends, taking videos, intentionally making aggressive moves towards the IDF Soldier. She was clearly the antagonist and was attempting to provoke the incident for media exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slap and kick a Military Service Member construed to be performing police duties or a sworn Police Officer anywhere in the civilized world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a part of the civilizes world. Their goons are criminals operating under the color of law.
> 
> What laws do they enforce? Theft? Killing? Kidnapping? Shooting an unarmed 14 yo kid in the face?
Click to expand...

Wrong. Israel is a legit country and part of the U.N .

Palestine is.....well. Not part of the civilized world


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I was on one of those planes hijacked by Palestinian terrorists 50 years ago, so hear me out | Opinion
> 
> 
> Fifty years ago this week, four planes were hijacked by a terrorist group called the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Dr. Roni Raab of Boca Raton was on one of them. So on the anniversary of the event, there’s something he wants to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sun-sentinel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was on one of those planes hijacked by Palestinian terrorists 50 years ago, so hear me out


And lived to tell about it.

Imagine that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was on one of those planes hijacked by Palestinian terrorists 50 years ago, so hear me out | Opinion
> 
> 
> Fifty years ago this week, four planes were hijacked by a terrorist group called the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Dr. Roni Raab of Boca Raton was on one of them. So on the anniversary of the event, there’s something he wants to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sun-sentinel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was on one of those planes hijacked by Palestinian terrorists 50 years ago, so hear me out
> 
> 
> 
> And lived to tell about it.
> 
> Imagine that.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Islamic Pali terrorist hijackers are no threat to anyone. Such is the success of the Pali terrorist airport. 

Imagine that - Islamic Terrorist Airlines.


----------



## Hollie

There was another performance of the Islamic terrorist clown show. For this performance, Saleh ''_another intifad_a'' Al-Arouri was rattling on with the familiar script about Islamics finally, finally, avoiding a humiliating defeat at the hands of The Zionists™.  

"Al'', was mouthing something about ''the great Arab wars of '67, 73'. "Al'' lives in some strange, alternate reality that denies the great Arab humiliations of '67 and '73, oh, and '48.

Happy gee-gad, ''Al''. 



*Saleh Al-Arouri*: "I assure you that the results of the next confrontation [with Israel] will be different from all the previous confrontations. There will be new facts. The occupation will pay an unprecedented price. 

"If an open confrontation takes place, the [Zionist] entity will face unprecedented consequences, even compared to the wars of the past. It will face unprecedented consequences. Its home front, which was safe during the great Arab wars of '67, 73' and so on, will be a part of the war. The capabilities that the resistance has prepared for confronting this enemy – despite all the international support the enemy receives – will also come to the enemy as a surprise. The enemy's losses and the results on the ground will be unprecedented. This is not an empty threat because I know what we have in store for that enemy.


----------



## Hollie

An Islamic talking head and a talking hijab were Act 2 of the clown show.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The fact that Arab Palestinians have been effectively deterred from aircraft high-jacking or suicide bus bombings does not mean that they are not still a dangerous threat in other ways and means.
​


			
				[I]Yaser Mazhar said:
			
		

> _Yaser Mazhar, the Director of the Communications Department of the Muhjat Al-Quds Foundation, was interviewed on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad - Gaza), which is headquartered in Lebanon. Mazhar and the show host, Majed Al-Babili, discussed the 1996 suicide bombing at Dizengoff Center in Tel Aviv that killed 13 people and injured 130 others. Saying that the Islamic Jihad had carried out the operation, they praised the terrorist and terrorists who have carried out similar attacks, and Mazhar said that martyrdom operations bring a lot of joy to the Palestinian people. He recalled how Palestinians have handed out sweets throughout their provinces in celebration of terrorist attacks, and he called on Palestinians in the West Bank to carry out terrorist attacks in Israel. Al-Majli added: "What was taken by force can only be taken back by force." The Muhjat Al-Quds Foundation offers aid to the families of Palestinian terrorists who were killed or who are imprisoned._​*Source:* Al-Quds Al-Youm TV Mar 05, 2020 (Palestine Islamic Jihad)​​


​
The Baron von Richthofen, Ace of Aces and Commander of the Flying Circus _[Jagdgeschwader (JG) 1],_ flew an F-1 *Fokker *Triplane. None of the major World Powers employ Triplanes in aerial combat today. The German Air Force (_Luftwaffe_) of today, is very much a 21st Century air command.  And the Tactical Air Force Wing 71 "Richthofen", at Wittmundhafen Air Base, flies the Eurofighter Typhoon. Just because the Luftwaffe has not downed another aircraft in several decades does not mean that JG-71 will not or cannot.  JG-71 has the exact same _*esprit de corps*_ as the "Richthofen" Wing of a century ago.

*“Palestinian” activist: “We are longing for bombings of ...*





						March 2020
					






					www.jihadwatch.org
				



*palestinian*-activist-we-are-longing-for-bombings-of...
Mar 23, 2020 · The *Muhjat Al-Quds Foundation* offers aid to the families of *Palestinian* terrorists who were killed or who are imprisoned. TV Host *Majid Al-Babili*: “When we discuss an operation like the Dizengoff Street [suicide bombing in Tel Aviv]…



P F Tinmore said:


> There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.


*(COMMENT)*

Your logic is flawed.  Just because the method of operation of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) has evolved, or forced to change, does not mean that it will not reemerge.  The Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) are still out there.

*Saudi Arabia* has put dozens of Palestinian activists on trial,
accusing them of supporting the Gaza-based rulers Hamas.
*AL-Jazeera (9 MAR '20)*​Don't for one moment, underestimate the danger the HoAP pose, not just to Israel, but to all the core Middle Eastern Arab states.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

It’s as though the Palis are emotionally / socially dysfunctional children. 


*Always blame Israel! Palestinian custom of shooting in the air at celebrations is Israel's fault, says PA Security Forces*










						Always blame Israel! Palestinian custom of shooting in the air at celebrations is Israel's fault, says PA Security Forces | PMW Analysis
					

“The aims of these weapons are not defined by those carrying them, but rather the occupation"




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 11, 2020
Feeding the libel that Israel deliberately spreads weapons among Palestinians so they can shoot each other and not attack Israelis, the spokesman of the Palestinian Authority Security Forces, Adnan Al-Damiri, claimed that Israel is turning a blind eye to and even encouraging those Israelis who sell weapons to Palestinians:


> *PA TV caption:* “Gunfire at events – a dangerous phenomenon that disturbs the residents”
> *Official Spokesman of the PA Security Forces Adnan Al-Damiri:*“The aims of these weapons are not defined by those carrying them, but rather the occupation – the enemy – is the one that has defined them. They have defined them as not harming their security and not harming their interests. They have been silent about them and allowed the Israeli merchants and discharged soldiers to sell them.”
> [Official PA TV, _Topic of the Day_, Aug. 30, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The Palis are complaining they have been “stabbed in the back”, again. A bit ironic as they promote knife attacks, but, you know, whatever.

There are persistent reports that the KSA will follow and announce normalizing of relations with Israel. As the trade, technology and economic benefits of cooperation begin to appear for Arab nations, I have to believe that others will not choose to be left behind. 









						Palestinians denounce Israel-Bahrain deal as another ‘stab in the back’
					

PA recalls its Manama envoy, says deal 'torpedoes' Arab Peace Initiative; PLO slams 'betrayal of Jerusalem and the Palestinians,' while terror group Hamas brands it an 'aggression'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




PA recalls its Manama envoy, says deal ‘torpedoes’ Arab Peace Initiative; PLO slams ‘betrayal of Jerusalem and the Palestinians,’ while terror group Hamas brands it an ‘aggression’


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  This is another case of Arab Palestinian exaggeration.



Hollie said:


> PA recalls its Manama envoy, says deal ‘torpedoes’ Arab Peace Initiative; PLO slams ‘betrayal of Jerusalem and the Palestinians,’ while terror group Hamas brands it an ‘aggression’


*(COMMENT)*

What "Arab Peace Initiative" was viable and on the table under an active negotiation process?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is another case of Arab Palestinian exaggeration.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA recalls its Manama envoy, says deal ‘torpedoes’ Arab Peace Initiative; PLO slams ‘betrayal of Jerusalem and the Palestinians,’ while terror group Hamas brands it an ‘aggression’
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What "Arab Peace Initiative" was viable and on the table under an active negotiation process?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There has never been a "Peace Initiative" from anybody.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is another case of Arab Palestinian exaggeration.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> PA recalls its Manama envoy, says deal ‘torpedoes’ Arab Peace Initiative; PLO slams ‘betrayal of Jerusalem and the Palestinians,’ while terror group Hamas brands it an ‘aggression’
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What "Arab Peace Initiative" was viable and on the table under an active negotiation process?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There has never been a "Peace Initiative" from anybody.
Click to expand...

Except for the peace initiatives.


----------



## Hollie

This article should be amended to identify that the Emir of Mahmoud’istan has withdrawn its bagman and suitcases for stashing the welfare cash from Bahrain. 









						Palestine recalls its ambassador to Bahrain
					

Palestinian Foreign Ministry to consult with its ambassador necessary steps in response to Bahrain-Israel deal.




					www.trtworld.com


----------



## Hollie

For the decades that the Arabs-Moslems have spent protesting against everything that offends their tender sensibilities, it’s remarkable that they have done nothing with their billions of dollars in welfare money to improve their lives.











						Palestinians in Gaza rally against Israel-UAE deal
					

Protesters in Gaza City chanted against UAE-Israeli normalisation, saying it is a ‘betrayal to Jerusalem and Palestine’.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:*   Arab Palestinian exaggeration.



RoccoR said:


> What "Arab Peace Initiative" was viable and on the table under an active negotiation process?


[/QUOTE]





P F Tinmore said:


> There has never been a "Peace Initiative" from anybody.





Hollie said:


> Except for the peace initiatives.


*(COMMENT)*

*News about Israeli Peace Initiative*
bing.com/news

I think that there is both a Saudi Initiative and a US Initiative still on the table; but I don't think they are moving.

Maybe our friend *"rylah" *might be able to shed some light on that.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*   Arab Palestinian exaggeration.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "Arab Peace Initiative" was viable and on the table under an active negotiation process?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> There has never been a "Peace Initiative" from anybody.





Hollie said:


> Except for the peace initiatives.


*(COMMENT)*

*News about Israeli Peace Initiative*
bing.com/news

I think that there is both a Saudi Initiative and a US Initiative still on the table; but I don't think they are moving.

Maybe our friend *"rylah" *might be able to shed some light on that.




Most Respectfully,
R
[/QUOTE]
Every offer I have seen required the Palestinians to surrender and give up land.

Do you have anything different?

Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Every offer I have seen required the Palestinians to surrender and give up land.



Give up land? That would imply they own land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Every offer I have seen required the Palestinians to surrender and give up land.
> 
> Do you have anything different?
> 
> Link?


I’ve seen seen any language in any of the peace initiatives (the ones you’re not aware of), that included “surrender”.

Link?

What lands were the Pals required to give up? As I recall, the land controlled by the Ottoman Turks was ceded to the Mandate. The land occupied by the Arabs-Moslems as a part of their colonial settler project was part of the land ceded by the Turks.

The failed arguments you‘re bringing into this thread are the same failed arguments you bring into every other thread and yet you still fail to understand the history of the area.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every offer I have seen required the Palestinians to surrender and give up land.
> 
> Do you have anything different?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve seen seen any language in any of the peace initiatives (the ones you’re not aware of), that included “surrender”.
> 
> Link?
> 
> What lands were the Pals required to give up? As I recall, the land controlled by the Ottoman Turks was ceded to the Mandate. The land occupied by the Arabs-Moslems as a part of their colonial settler project was part of the land ceded by the Turks.
> 
> The failed arguments you‘re bringing into this thread are the same failed arguments you bring into every other thread and yet you still fail to understand the history of the area.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> The failed arguments


They are not failed. You just can't read.

The land was ceded to the new states.


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *News about Israeli Peace Initiative*
> bing.com/news
> 
> I think that there is both a Saudi Initiative and a US Initiative still on the table; but I don't think they are moving.
> 
> Maybe our friend *"rylah" *might be able to shed some light on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



An agreement with Saudis can be only direct,
and will deal with subjects no US politician will dare touch.

In the absence of central Waqf authority,
the kingdom has the position for fundamental changes.

It can take another decade,
has to do with opening a formal discourse between religious authorities.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.
Click to expand...


But she is the leader of the exact organization that did,
her membership and incitement got her jail time.

That's what militant neo-Nazi usually get,
but much more than what they deserve.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But she is the leader of the exact organization that did,
> her membership and incitement got her jail time.
> 
> That's what militant neo-Nazi usually get,
> but much more than what they deserve.
Click to expand...

What was the name of that organization and what difference does it make?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BLUF:  Your argument is predicated on the assumption that the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) awarded the territory to the habitual residence.  That would be completely wrong (Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne).



Hollie said:


> The failed arguments





P F Tinmore said:


> They are not failed. You just can't read.
> The land was ceded to the new states.


*(COMMENT)*

But there is another two flaw in your argument.

◈  First:  The Treaty of Lausanne did not promise anything to the Arabs.  Not one single obligation was made to the Arab in the treaty.  The treaty was an agreement between the Allied Powers and the new Turkish Republic (_alla_ Kemal Atatürk). However, in a separate line of communication (1921), Prince Abdullah, son of Hussein bin Ali, the Sharif of Mecca, was promised to be the Emir of Transjordan; later its first King (made sovereign in 1946).​​◈  Second:  In terms of the Mandate for Palestine, the "new states" to which the habitual residents would eventually become citizens, had not been established yet _(except for Jordan)_.  And "All" the Palestinians _(East of the Jordan River - resident in 1921)_ became Jordanian citizens when Abdullah became the Emir. West of the Jordan River, a state or multiple states, had not been established. And the Arab Palestinians rejected (multiple times) to become a voice in the establishment of necessary self-governing institutions necessary to be a stand-alone state.​​Now I know (P F Tinmore) that you have a different perspective that is bundled up in the belief that all the territory _(with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate - from the river to the sea, and from north to south)_ is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people. Nobody is really going to go along with that. The events from 1939 to the present → demonstrate quite dramatically that the Jewish People of the World absolutely need a homeland of their own, a safe-haven final refuge at their last port of call.
​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But she is the leader of the exact organization that did,
> her membership and incitement got her jail time.
> 
> That's what militant neo-Nazi usually get,
> but much more than what they deserve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the name of that organization and what difference does it make?
Click to expand...

Pflp, what matter is their actions.

Apparently to lead an organization with a resume of neo-Nazi incitement,
planting explosive in residential areas and hijacking passenger planes doesn't help the jail time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Your argument is predicated on the assumption that the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) awarded the territory to the habitual residence.


It wasn't?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> 
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> khalida jarrar
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kan-ga-roo court*_ → a an unofficial court held by a group of people (Israelis) in order to try someone regarded, esp. without good evidence, as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Khalida Jarrar* has been in prison many times, Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For facilitating criminal activity.
> One of main activities of her organization is training child soldiers, others include hijacking airlines.
> 
> Khalida Jarrar's work:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was concerned about what she did. Collective punishment is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do you have to change the subject?
> 
> See, you don't do discussion,
> only outlandish accusations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There hasn't been a hijacking since  Khalida Jarrar was a baby. Why do you post dumb shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But she is the leader of the exact organization that did,
> her membership and incitement got her jail time.
> 
> That's what militant neo-Nazi usually get,
> but much more than what they deserve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the name of that organization and what difference does it make?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pflp, what matter is their actions.
> 
> Apparently to lead an organization with a resume of neo-Nazi incitement,
> planting explosive in residential areas and hijacking passenger planes doesn't help the jail time.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Pflp


What does that mean?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The land was ceded to the new states.


What new states?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
Click to expand...

So, it's obvious you never actually read the Treaty of Lausanne.

Were you aware that the Class A mandate of Palestine was assigned to Great Britain? What do you think that means?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, it's obvious you never actually read the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Were you aware that the Class A mandate of Palestine was assigned to Great Britain? What do you think that means?
Click to expand...

Sure, the Mandate was assigned to Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, it's obvious you never actually read the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Were you aware that the Class A mandate of Palestine was assigned to Great Britain? What do you think that means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, the Mandate was assigned to Palestine.
Click to expand...

What do you think that means?

You do realize that all of this has been explained to you in a separate thread dedicated to explaining this to you, right?


----------



## Hollie

Who are the Pal'istanians?

A footnote.









						Palestine, now a footnote
					

The Israel-UAE friendship shows how the substantive political issues of the Palestinian people have withered away




					www.thehindu.com
				



!


----------



## Hollie

This is serious. "High treason'' against Allah is no fooling around. 



Hamas MP Mushir Al-Masri: UAE-Israel Deal Is Like An Adulteress Marrying An Adulterer; the UAE Has Committed 'High Treason' Against Allah


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, it's obvious you never actually read the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Were you aware that the Class A mandate of Palestine was assigned to Great Britain? What do you think that means?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, the Mandate was assigned to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you think that means?
> 
> You do realize that all of this has been explained to you in a separate thread dedicated to explaining this to you, right?
Click to expand...

Why? Is it too complicated for you?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BLUF: Your argument is predicated on the assumption that the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) awarded the territory to the habitual residence. That would be completely wrong *(Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne)*.



RoccoR said:


> Your argument is predicated on the assumption that the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) awarded the territory to the habitual residence.





P F Tinmore said:


> It wasn't?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

The habitual residence was not a party to the conflict.  Article 30 (Nationality), it not in the Territorial Section of the Treaty and had nothing whatsoever to do with territorial assignment.* (None - Nada!)*.  It was a precaution to prevent burdening other territories with refugees without citizenship.  It was actually to protect the interests of the parties to the treaty.

You know all this because we've discussed this before.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.



P F Tinmore said:


> The land was ceded to the new states.





Hollie said:


> What new states?





P F Tinmore said:


> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Point #1:
◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​


​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​

Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.

Point #2:

◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory. 

Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.              

​


			
				REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
			
		

> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​



You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."

*(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*

Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.

Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
​


			
				REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
			
		

> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​


​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *BLUF:* Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.


Didn't mention anything about what you said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930* 

I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.

They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.

If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
Click to expand...


What peace would there be?

Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.

Even by your definitions,
the war started before the Brits came.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

I think you need to go back and look at the Exhibit for the direct quote.



RoccoR said:


> *BLUF:* Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.





P F Tinmore said:


> Didn't mention anything about what you said.


*(COMMENT)*

There is much more to the "Historical Record" and just the Covenant, Treaty, Order, and Mandate.  There are reporting sessions to the  Permanent Mandates Commission, and the Commission's Report to the Council.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What peace would there be?
> 
> Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
> the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.
> 
> Even by your definitions,
> the war started before the Brits came.
Click to expand...

What war would there be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think you need to go back and look at the Exhibit for the direct quote.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BLUF:* Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't mention anything about what you said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is much more to the "Historical Record" and just the Covenant, Treaty, Order, and Mandate.  There are reporting sessions to the  Permanent Mandates Commission, and the Commission's Report to the Council.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I think you need to go back and look at the Exhibit for the direct quote.


Palestine is not mentioned in your link.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What peace would there be?
> 
> Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
> the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.
> 
> Even by your definitions,
> the war started before the Brits came.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war would there be?
Click to expand...


Arab-Israeli war.

Arabs didn't realize what kind of enemies they made when they expelled the Jews from all holy cities.

The political Zionist organization was initiated as a response to the Arab pogroms across the Caliphate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What peace would there be?
> 
> Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
> the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.
> 
> Even by your definitions,
> the war started before the Brits came.
Click to expand...




> what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.



Palestine only had an elected government between March and June of 2007.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What peace would there be?
> 
> Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
> the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.
> 
> Even by your definitions,
> the war started before the Brits came.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war would there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab-Israeli war.
> 
> Arabs didn't realize what kind of enemies they made when they expelled the Jews from all holy cities.
> 
> The political Zionist organization was initiated as a response to the Arab pogroms across the Caliphate.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Arab-Israeli war.


Wouldn't have been without Britain.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What peace would there be?
> 
> Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
> the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.
> 
> Even by your definitions,
> the war started before the Brits came.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine only had an elected government between March and June of 2007.
Click to expand...


So, had they ever a non-elected govt,
or any sort of govt before, of their own, that was any effective?


----------



## Hollie

With the Islamic Middle East changing around them, the Fatah terrorist syndicate fails to acknowledge that simple fact. The result of a decades-long willingness by the international community to fund Islamic terrorist dictators and the psychopaths created by those cult enclaves (Fatah and Hamas), we see the monsters we have helped to create. 







__





						Fatah official says pressures exerted against leadership won’t change their positions
					






					english.wafa.ps
				





RAMALLAH, Sunday, September 13, 2020 (WAFA) – Mahmoud Aloul, the Deputy Chairman of ruling Fatah Movement, said today that Bahrain’s announcement on establishing diplomatic relations with the occupying state of Israel was a stab in the back, and a betrayal of the Palestinian cause, Jerusalem and humanity.

Aloul told the official Voice of Palestine radio that the positions of the Palestinian leadership and President Mahmoud Abbas are built upon the will of our people and its ability to withstand, stressing that the recent wave of normalization and the pressures exerted upon President Abbas and the leadership will never affect their positions at all.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Article 95 of that* Treaty (of Lausanne 1923)* drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine. The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to the new states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What new states?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Class A" Mandates: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:
> ◈  Lebanon was a partition out of Syria.​View attachment 387998​​◈  Trans-Jordan was a partition out of Palestine.​View attachment 388000​Note:  While we say "A" Mandates (Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq), there are only three Mandates of a Type "A" nature.  The territories are "provisionally" recognized as independent but subject to the civil administration by the Mandatory which continues to provide the advice and assistance until such time as it is able to stand alone.
> 
> Point #2:
> 
> ◈  Lebanon became independent on 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)​◈  Syria became independent on 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration).​◈  Jordan became independent on 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)​◈  Israel became independent on 15 May 1948 (following League of Nations mandate under British administration)​
> Point #3:  The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in establishing a self-governing nation under the tutelage of the Mandatory.
> 
> Point #4:   The interpretation by the British Administration, and not opposed by the Mandate Commission, was that in regard to Palestine, *no mention was made of independence* nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly afterwards, the Allies concluded the first Treaty of Peace with Turkey.  Article 95 of that Treaty drew an essential distinction between the status of Mesopotamia and Syria and the status of Palestine.  The first two countries were provisionally recognised as independent States, whereas, in regard to Palestine, no mention was made of independence nor was there any reference to the assistance and advice of a Mandatory.  The article referred only to the administration of the country by a Mandatory chosen by the Principal Allied and Associated Powers, without making any reservation in regard to the character of the administration.​​That had been the second surprise and disappointment suffered by the Arabs, who thus saw their national and political hopes vanishing. This disappointment had been all the more keen as Article 1 of the Mandate for Palestine provided for the institution in this territory, in contrast with the other Asiatic territories under mandate, of a direct system of administration, the British Government being furnished with full legislative and administrative powers.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot attempt to apply the logic of today, nearly a century later, to interpretations and understandings made a matter of record nearly a hundred years ago.  The Article 1 authorization is straight forward, sweeping, and powerful.  There was no tricky language.  "The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate."
> 
> *(A RELATED SIDEBAR ISSUE)*
> 
> Very often, you return no matters related to this subject circles back around to the Jews invaded the Palestine territory.  Well, let's head this off at the pass.
> 
> Books upon books can and have been written on this subject matter, but at the end of the day, what difficulties the Arab Palestinians find themselves in today, made out of their own poor leadership.  Nothing more!  While both sides of the political equation have made some serious mistakes _(no one is saying that the Israelis are perfect)_, the conflict is a generationally based hatred, passed-down through the discontented families.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> REPORT OF THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL and Comments by the Mandatory Power said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In view of these convictions,...    They also felt resentment towards the mandatory Power, owing to an alleged lack of sincerity.  Their resentment towards the Jews was due to the fact that they regarded them as the real authors of their disappointment and therefore responsible for an indefinite adjournment of the realisation of the political hopes of the Arab population. * There must be no mistake on this point.*  The resentment, or even the hatred, of certain portions of the Arab population *was not, in the first instance, provoked by the immigration and subsequent activities of the Jews*.  The hostility of the Arabs had deeper roots, and it was not directed solely against the Jews.​*SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *SOURCE*:  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930*
> 
> I tried to read this. It is page after page after page of horseshit. They spent months and years with inquires and commissions to say nothing.
> 
> They should have just said "We fucked up big time and we are too stupid to fix it." They started a hundred year (and counting) war and they still won't own up to what they did.
> 
> If Britain followed the LoN Covenant, they could have been in and out of Palestine in 5-10 years and there would be peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What peace would there be?
> 
> Would the Arabs help Britain invade or not,
> the war already began with the Jewish uprising in response to Arab pogroms.
> 
> Even by your definitions,
> the war started before the Brits came.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What war would there be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab-Israeli war.
> 
> Arabs didn't realize what kind of enemies they made when they expelled the Jews from all holy cities.
> 
> The political Zionist organization was initiated as a response to the Arab pogroms across the Caliphate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Israeli war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wouldn't have been without Britain.
Click to expand...


You keep repeating that if not for Britain there was peace,
but the alternative you refer to is degradation and war.

Britain had nothing to do with the Arab pogroms, predating its invasion.
The expulsion of Jews from all holy cities - that's when the Arab-Israeli war started.

Arabs have no one to blame but themselves.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The entire of the meeting for which the  *MINUTES OF THE SEVENTEENTH (Extraordinary) SESSION Held at Geneva from June 3rd to 21st, 1930* were recorded was entirely about the progress and the then developments of the Mandate for Palestine.



RoccoR said:


> I think you need to go back and look at the Exhibit for the direct quote.





P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is not mentioned in your link.


*(COMMENT)*

Treaties generally DO NOT LIST those subjects of no specific consequence as a singular issue.  Palestine was a singular issue for which there was no specific obligation made.  Thus the treaty was silent on Palestine.

The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?  Forget all the other difficult whops you're trying to jump through _(not that it makes any difference to the questions of Palestine a century later)_ and "focus."

THEN*!*  Come back down to Earth and ask _(realistically)_ what practical answers can be applied to the issues as they exist today?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Growing Arab Support For Israel
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Who was at fault for that. They call it a "self-governing institution" for a reason.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine only had an elected government between March and June of 2007.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians were a surprise on two counts.

◈  They could not elect a non-corrupt government to save their ass.​​◈  They turned out to be a population that installed government, and admittedly a people, that openly support terrorist, and still do today.​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who was at fault for that. They call it a "self-governing institution" for a reason.


Indeed, and it can't happen under occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?


A hundred years of occupation will do that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
Click to expand...


The other areas weren't occupied by the Ottoman for hundreds of years? DURR!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab League decided that the usual whining by the Pals was to be given the "yeah, yeah, yeah, we've heard it all before'', acknowledgement. 

"Amendments were introduced to the [Palestinian] draft, but at the end, there was an agreement not to adopt a resolution," Mr Zaki said.''










						Palestine bid for resolution on UAE-Israel accord fades at Arab League
					

Arab foreign ministers discussed the proposal at length, but no resolution was adopted on Wednesday




					www.thenational.ae
				





Palestine, which chaired Wednesday’s session, sought a resolution regarding the August 13 UAE-Israel agreement to normalise relations in exchange for halting annexation of Palestinian lands.

Hossam Zaki, the Arab League’s assistant secretary general, said a draft Palestinian resolution on the Abraham Accord was exhaustively discussed in the online meeting, but failed to secure agreement.

“Discussions regarding this point were serious," Mr Zaki said in Cairo. "It was comprehensive and took some time.

"But it did not lead in the end to an agreement about the draft communique that was proposed by the Palestinian side."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?

Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
Click to expand...

Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years. 

Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.


----------



## Hollie

Saeb is not happy. Bahrain has committed an egregious sin against Allah and put its own interests ahead of the Pali occupiers. 

While some in the islamist Middle East are looking forward to trade, economic and political changes for their benefit, the Palis are being left behind. 











						Bahrain told us they would not normalize with Israel, top Palestinian laments
					

Saeb Erekat says Manama had emphasized its commitment to the Arab Peace Initiative, which requires peace with Palestinians before normalization, in private as well as in public




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





A top Palestinian official said Saturday that Bahraini officials promised Ramallah a week ago that they would not normalize with Israel before the establishment of a Palestinian state.

The comments from chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat came a day after the US announced that Israel and Bahrain would be establishing full ties, drawing angry denunciations from Palestinians, who have found themselves increasingly isolated by Gulf states opening up to Israel.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.
> 
> Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> View attachment 388441


Foreign controlled oligarchs can make a lot of money fucking their own people.

It has been happening for centuries.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.
> 
> Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?


----------



## Hollie

The Palis are working themselves into a froth with a series of new conspiracy theories. 











						Medieval libels in today’s PA: “Israel openly murders Palestinian children” and “poisons water and air” – in op-ed in official PA daily | PMW Analysis
					

The Israeli government is “unchaining the herds of settlers and the unofficial Zionist gangs… so they will set houses, places of worship, and cars on fire




					palwatch.org
				




Medieval libels in today’s PA: “Israel openly murders Palestinian children” and “poisons water and air” – in op-ed in official PA daily
Itamar Marcus  | Sep 14, 2020

The Israeli government is “unchaining the herds of settlers and the unofficial Zionist gangs… so they will set houses, places of worship, and cars on fire… openly murdering Palestinian children, young people, young women, [adult] women, and elderly… poisoning the air and water”

“The Zionist colonialist mother project… says that ‘The borders of the State of Greater Israel are from the Nile [River] to the Euphrates [River]’”

Israel seeks to “destroy” the Al-Aqsa Mosque and “establish the Third Temple in its place”

Numerous hate promoting libels demonizing Israel and the Zionist movement were blended into an article that also criticized Israel's political positions such as rejecting “return” of refugees to Israel, in a recent op-ed in the official Palestinian Authority daily.

In a long list of accusations against Israel - many said to have been supported by “Israeli governments” throughout history – one of the regular columnists for the paper, Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, included allegations that echo antisemitic libels of the Middle Ages, for example “murdering Palestinian children… poisoning the air and water” and others:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.
> 
> Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.


----------



## Ropey

> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2



Still Arabians from Arabia.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*Preface and Thought*:  Do you make these stories up as you go?  Who, pray tell, is the "foreign control?"  AND Who is the "Controlled?"  _(Who gains what from whom?)_



P F Tinmore said:


> Foreign controlled oligarchs can make a lot of money fucking their own people.
> It has been happening for centuries.


*(COMMENT)*

This is just a sound-bite.  It actually has no real meaning.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ropey

When Egypt said yes, there was peace.
When Jordan said yes, there was peace.
When UAE & Bahrain said yes, there was peace.
It’s a new era in Israeli-Arab relations.

It’s time for the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians to say yes. Conversely, they can go running to non Arabian Iran or non Arabian Turkey for halp and see where that gets them.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is like the third time in the last 7 days you've said something to this effect.  And it is 100% wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.


*(COMMENT)*

I would like to make two points of correction:

◈ The effective control maintained by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) was established on 23 October 1917 and terminated on 1 JULY, 1920*; *upon which the Civil Administration went into effect as agreed by the Allied Powers. It was NOT occupied from 1917 - 1948.​​◈  I'm not sure what you mean by the "Ottoman Empire fell in 1923."  ​*"*_*Armistice of Mudros*,  (Oct. 30, 1918)_, pact signed at the port of Mudros, at the Island of Lemnos - on board HMS Agamemnon, between the Ottoman Empire and Great Britain (representing the Allied powers) marking the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I (1914–18)."​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

It was brought to my attention that I needed a better citation to answer your question.  In this regard, I further submit the following:

The first one is the clarification, Paragraph (a), that the Allied Powers knew that the implementation of the Balfour Declaration was going to impact certain rights of the habitual inhabitance _(the non-Jewish Community)_.​​The second clarification, Paragraph (b), shows the distinction between:​​◈  Para (b-1): ...Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations)...​​◈  Para (b-2): ...application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers...​​* (See Below)*


P F Tinmore said:


> Didn't mention anything about what you said.


*(COMMENT)*

I should have cited something simpler for you.



			
				The Allied Powers said:
			
		

> It was agreed –
> 
> (a) To accept the terms of the Mandates Article as given below with reference to Palestine, on the understanding that there was inserted in the proces-verbal an undertaking by the Mandatory Power *that this would not involve the surrender of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine;* this undertaking not to refer to the question of the religious protectorate of France, which had been settled earlier in the previous afternoon by the undertaking given by the French Government that they recognized this protectorate as being at an end.
> 
> (b) that the terms of the Mandates Article should be as follows:
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognized as independent States, subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the Mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powers.
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> *UNISPAL SOURCE:*  An *Agreement Made at the San Remo Conference 1920*





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.
> 
> Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant sidestep. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land area commonly called Palestine for hundreds of years.


----------



## Hollie

I'm supposing that the linked article is referring to the Fatah West Bank component of Palis vs. the Hamas 
Gaza component. 

It's difficult to determine (other than for bluster and propaganda), what Fatah really jeans or intends when claiming to ''reconsider relations'' with Arab league states. 

Ultimately, I have to believe Abbas is having real concerns about the viability of his welfare fraud syndicate. With his Arab neighbors looking to warm relations with Israel, Abbas will lose clout among the minions who expect their lifestyle of privilege and financial support to continue. 










						Palestinian leadership to reconsider relations with Arab League
					

Move comes amid Palestinian anger over US-sponsored agreements between Israel and UAE, Bahrain.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Ishtayeh has said the government will present a recommendation to President Mahmoud Abbas to reconsider relations with the Arab League.

The move comes amid Palestinian anger about recent US-brokered agreements to normalise relations between Israel and two Gulf nations - the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

"The Arab League has become a symbol of the Arab inaction," Ishtayeh said during his weekly cabinet meeting on Monday.

Last week, an Arab League ministerial meeting failed to adopt a Palestinian draft condemning the UAE-Israel normalisation agreement that took place in August.

Bahrain then became the fourth Arab country to establish full diplomatic ties with Israel after UAE, Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ropey said:


> When Egypt said yes, there was peace.
> When Jordan said yes, there was peace.
> When UAE & Bahrain said yes, there was peace.
> It’s a new era in Israeli-Arab relations.


So, Israel does not occupy any of those.


Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.
> 
> Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant sidestep. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land area commonly called Palestine for hundreds of years.
Click to expand...

Your point?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ The effective control maintained by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) was established on 23 October 1917 and terminated on 1 JULY, 1920*; *upon which the Civil Administration went into effect as agreed by the Allied Powers. It was NOT occupied from 1917 - 1948.


When Britain changed from an occupation to a Mandate it was simply a name change.  It maintained military control outside the LoN covenant.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It was brought to my attention that I needed a better citation to answer your question.  In this regard, I further submit the following:
> 
> The first one is the clarification, Paragraph (a), that the Allied Powers knew that the implementation of the Balfour Declaration was going to impact certain rights of the habitual inhabitance _(the non-Jewish Community)_.​​The second clarification, Paragraph (b), shows the distinction between:​​◈  Para (b-1): ...Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations)...​​◈  Para (b-2): ...application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers...​​* (See Below)*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't mention anything about what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I should have cited something simpler for you.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was agreed –​
> ​
> (a) To accept the terms of the Mandates Article as given below with reference to Palestine, on the understanding that there was inserted in the proces-verbal an undertaking by the Mandatory Power *that this would not involve the surrender of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine;* this undertaking not to refer to the question of the religious protectorate of France, which had been settled earlier in the previous afternoon by the undertaking given by the French Government that they recognized this protectorate as being at an end.​
> ​
> (b) that the terms of the Mandates Article should be as follows:​
> ​
> The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognized as independent States, subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the Mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powers.​
> ​
> The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.​
> ​
> *UNISPAL SOURCE:*  An *Agreement Made at the San Remo Conference 1920*​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I already know about all of that foreign interference.


----------



## Hollie

This is a terrible idea. Who beside Pal ambassadors Mahmoud's bag men will be available to carry the suitcases full of cash into the Islamic occupied territories?











						Palestinian Authority calls for Arab state boycott of signing ceremony
					

The PA recalled its ambassadors in Abu Dhabi and Manama in protest of the UAE and Bahrain peace deals with Israel.




					www.jpost.com
				




The PA recalled its ambassadors in Abu Dhabi and Manama in protest of the UAE and Bahrain peace deals with Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  While you use this phrase _(foreign interference)_ and claim you know all about it, I wonder if it is true.
​



​


P F Tinmore said:


> I already know about all of that foreign interference.


*(COMMENT)*

I think it is time to define what you mean by foreign interference.  The Ottoman Empire relinquished authority to the Allied Powers, and in turn, the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.  It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.

What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  While you use this phrase _(foreign interference)_ and claim you know all about it, I wonder if it is true.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 388873​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already know about all of that foreign interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think it is time to define what you mean by foreign interference.  The Ottoman Empire relinquished authority to the Allied Powers, and in turn, the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.  It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.
> 
> What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"


Britain ruled by military force in opposition to the LoN Covenant.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.


Back to Israeli talking points.

BTW, are you saying that Israel "won" land from the UN ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.


The Mandates had no sovereignty over the land in their trust.

You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility over the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandates had no sovereignty over the land in their trust.
> 
> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.
Click to expand...

You're not understanding the terms you use.


----------



## Hollie

Some solid advise for the Pali enclaves was offered by a UAE representative.

The downside is that the competing Pali enclaves are still bolstered by a welfare system (and Shia Iranian money) that allows for their continued incompetence and obstructionist actions. 












						Senior UAE Official: ‘Palestinians Need to Want to Help Themselves’
					

The Palestinians need to understand the normalization deal between the UAE and Israel will aid their cause if they allowed it to.




					www.breitbart.com
				




“They need to want to help themselves as well, and perhaps instead of using the traditional criticisms and curses, they actually look at what we are trying to do,” said Assistant Minister for Cultural and Public Diplomacy Omar Saif Ghobash in an interview.

The agreement “is going to help rather than hinder” the Palestinian cause, he argued.

Ghobash called on the Palestinian Authority to take the opportunity to return to the negotiating table with Israel, noting the Emirati demand that Israel suspend West Bank annexation in return for the deal.

“Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> “Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.


They are, but not through the useless PA.


----------



## Ropey

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Egypt said yes, there was peace.
> When Jordan said yes, there was peace.
> When UAE & Bahrain said yes, there was peace.
> It’s a new era in Israeli-Arab relations.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Israel does not occupy any of those.
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question you have to ask is why every other inhabitant to an "A" Mandate was able to a self-governing nation EXCEPT for the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A hundred years of occupation will do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, you have offered no support for any ''hundred years of occupation''.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Palestine was occupied by Britain in 1917. Palestine was occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in 1948. Israel took over the occupation of all of Palestine in 1967. That occupation continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, why do you post here when you don't know the facts? The loosely defined geographic area called Palestine was controlled by various parties over the last 1,000 years.
> 
> Indeed, you continue with your quaint, Disney'fied version of some Arab-Islamist wonderland that never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, do you need a link to details of the Ottoman Caliphate or something else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant question. The Ottoman Empire fell in 1923. Palestine was under British occupation from 1917 t0 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant sidestep. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land area commonly called Palestine for hundreds of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your point?
Click to expand...


Israel is reborn.

Palestine, not so much.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> They are, but not through the useless PA.
Click to expand...

Of course, dear.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist enclave of Mahmoud’istan has something called a “Prime Minister”. I know, let’s keep the laughter to a minimum. 

At any rate, the guy with the phony title has described the Israel, UAE and Bahrain Peace arrangement as “a black day in the history of the Arab nation and as a defeat to the Arab League.”

In the upside down world of the Pali welfare-dependent enclave, a mutually beneficial peace agreement which will provide stability and economic benefits to the region is a “black day”. 

It’s difficult to imagine that Palis are ever going to be able to resolve their diminishing relevance in the region, especially as it seems more likely that additional Arab nations will not want to be left behind as the UAE and Bahrain will likely see economic and security benefits for alliances with Israel. 









						PA PM: Today is “a black day in the history of the Arab nation” | PMW Analysis
					

Prime Minister Shtayyeh said “this day will be added to the Palestinian calendar of pain and Arab calendar of defeats,” adding that the Arab League is a “symbol of Arab ineptitude.”




					palwatch.org
				




PA PM: Today is “a black day in the history of the Arab nation”

Itamar Marcus  | Sep 15, 2020

While Israel, vaious Gulf states, and states of the Western world welcome today’s peace treaties between Israel, the UAE and Bahrain, the Palestinian Authority’s Prime Minister speaking at a cabinet session yesterday condemned today’s signing of the peace agreements in Washington DC as ”a black day in the history of the Arab nation and as a defeat to the Arab League.”

Prime Minister Shtayyeh said “this day will be added to the Palestinian calendar of pain and Arab calendar of defeats,” adding that the Arab League is a “symbol of Arab ineptitude.”

In addition, the official PA news agency WAFA reported “that the cabinet was considering recommending that President Mahmoud Abbas ‘revise Palestine’s relations with the Arab League.’”


----------



## rylah

Say the names: Forgotten American victims of Palestinian terror
					

The murderers: Hamada and Abu Zayed are in Norway, Mahmoud Khader Abed and Zuhair al-Abbasi, in the PA and Jordan, as is Tamimi, Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Nice little quips - but not very informative.



RoccoR said:


> What are you using as a basis for calling the Mandate Period an "Occupation?"





P F Tinmore said:


> Britain ruled by military force in opposition to the LoN Covenant.


*(COMMENT)*

The first High Commissioner was *Sir Herbert Louis Samuel* during the period 1920 _(almost immediately at the conclusion of the San Remo Conference)_ until 1925. Counting the acting High Commissioners _(during vacancies)_, there were 12 High Commissioners of Palestine. Only two of them were Military Officers.



RoccoR said:


> It is more the case that the Arab League in 1948, represented a "Foreign Influence" since the Arab League forces departed their individual sovereign territories and began military operations in a territory under the trusteeship of the UN.





P F Tinmore said:


> Back to Israeli talking points.
> 
> BTW, are you saying that Israel "won" land from the UN ?


*(COMMENT)*

NO, I did not say that at all.  (See the simple chart on the succession in Posting #17446) The Allied Powers which accepted the Rights and Title to the territories (which included Palestine of undetermined boundaries).

_"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to __e*ntrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine*__, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;"_​
The British were selected by the Allied Power.



RoccoR said:


> the Allied Powers mandated the British Administration the powers and responsibility for the territory, who are you calling a foreign influence.





P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandates had no sovereignty over the land in their trust.
> 
> You keep confusing military control with sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't believe I even used the word "sovereignty."  It is "Rights and Title."

Again, you need to check your facts:

From the very beginning, the very first High Commissioner (Sir Herbert Samuel) established the Palestine Police, operating under the British Colonial Police Service.  The High Commissioner was required to maintain peace and good order in  Palestine.  Palestine Order in Council:

"Where this Order or any Ordinance *confers a power to make rules, regulations or orders,* then, unless a contrary intention appears, the power shall be construed as including a power exercisable in the like manner and subject to the like approval and conditions (if any) to rescind, revoke, amend or vary the rules, regulations or orders."​
Yes, there were military forces there in the Government of Palestine.  But those forces were no different from an Activated Home Guard Force under the direction of the High Commissioner.  Most governments have such an arrangement.  Your home State has such a thing as the "National Guard."  There was nothing in the Order in Council or the Mandate that prohibits the arrangement. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Symbolic of the attitude that prevented the Palis from ever achieving a meaningful existence.











						Palestinian militants fire rockets at Israel as historic peace agreement is signed at White House
					

Two people are wounded in Israel as relations with Arab states are normalized




					www.theblaze.com
				





A rocket attack launched by Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip wounded two people in Israel Tuesday as the Middle East's lone Jewish state signed an agreement to normalize relations with two of its Arab neighbors at the White House. The attack was apparently coordinated to coincide with the signing of the agreement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The High Commissioner was required to maintain peace and good order in Palestine.


And what a shit job they did.

The last 6 months of their rule, they allowed about 300.000 Palestinians to be expelled, hundreds of villages destroyed, and many massacres to occur.

After 30 years of gross stupidity, they dropped their shit on the UN and ducked out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> They are, but not through the useless PA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, dear.
Click to expand...

Israel is too candy ass to negotiate with anyone who will not sell out.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Using what we managed to achieve, we encourage the Palestinians to reach out to the Israelis and the US authorities and to rethink what might be possible,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> They are, but not through the useless PA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to negotiate with anyone who will not sell out.
Click to expand...

Another pointless rant.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Much of this report seems to be based on this article in Roayah News. 

Since Suha Arafat's revelation, some independent Palestinian media have been following up. One site claims that Amara has been leading a smear campaign to replace the Palestinian ambassador to Cyprus with her (unqualified) daughter.  

Meanwhile, government media has been energetically defending Amara. 

This is a big story for over two weeks that has been ignored in Western media.

(full article online)









						Intisar Abu Amara, the powerful woman who tells Mahmoud Abbas what to do
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Does not look like the Arab Muslim Palestinians are going to agree to a peace treaty any time soon ]

The head of the Palestine Scholars Association, Marwan Abu Ras, added in the statement, "This is beyond the issue of recognition and relationships, but rather it is complete loyalty to the enemies of God and blatant hostility to Muslims, a conspiracy against sacred things and a violation of sanctities, and the promotion of cultures and the glorification of Jewish beliefs and Talmudic hysteria."

 He continued: "Thus, the ruling is greater than being merely forbidden and a great sin. Rather, it is affection for the enemies of God, and denial and hostility to the believers." 

"In summary, God Almighty has judged those who support the unbelievers over the believers that he has severed his relationship with God." 

(full article online)









						Gaza scholars declare normalization to be "Talmudic hysteria"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A major Islamic scholar st Al Azhar rejected the ban:



> A grand scholar at Al Azhar Al Sharif, Egypt's renowned Islamic institution, has rejected a fatwa by Al Quds Mufti where he forbids the Emirati people from praying in Al-Aqsa Mosque following the UAE-Israeli peace accord.
> 
> "As a specialist in Islamic Fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) I can't find any religious justification for declaring as haram (forbidden) the worship of any Muslim people in any mosque all over the world based on a political stance taken by these people's leadership. I reject any religious fatwa that is not based on Shari'a - compliant rules," Dr Abbas Shuman, a member of Al Azhar's Committee of Senior Scholars.
> 
> "To the best of my knowledge, our Islamic history has not witnessed any fatwa by the righteous forefathers and their descendants banning any Muslim from praying in any mosque around the world," he concluded.



The Mufti is appointed by the PA president Mahmoud Abbas, meaning that the PLO/PA are the ones banning Muslims from worshiping at Al Aqsa.

In fact, this isn't the first time, according to reports from 2017:



> Al-Aqsa guards expelled yesterday a Bahraini delegation from the mosque’s holy site, local sources reported.
> 
> The sources added that the move came as the Bahraini delegation was reported to have visited the Jewish state to “normalise and strengthen ties with Israel” and to deliver “message of peace and brotherhood to Israel.”



 Israel sometimes bans some Muslims from the site if they are a danger to public safety and security. The Palestinian leadership bans some Muslims from the site if they don't like the politics of the country they are from.

(full article online)









						Palestinian leaders want to ban some Muslims from praying at Al Aqsa
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The Deputy Head of the Hamas “Politburo” has some fanciful ideas of another gee-had. That would be just another bad idea in the long tradition of Pali bad ideas. 



Saleh Al-Arouri, Deputy Head of Hamas Political Bureau: There Will Be an Intifada Very Soon


----------



## Hollie

For all the railing they have directed at the Arab League, the Pali leadership, whatever that is, has decided not to withdraw from that body. 

Following the slurs and insults directed by the PA at the Arab League, another self-created disaster for the Palis.








__





						Palestine not to withdraw from Arab League: official - Xinhua | English.news.cn
					





					www.xinhuanet.com
				





RAMALLAH, Sept. 17 (Xinhua) -- A senior Palestinian official announced on Thursday that Palestine does not intend to withdraw from the Arab League following the normalization agreements of Israel with the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

Ahmed Majdalani, a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization's Executive Committee, told the official Palestinian radio Voice of Palestine that the Palestinian leadership decides to keep a Palestinian representation in the Arab League.

On Wednesday night, the Palestinian leadership held a meeting in Ramallah to decide on a Palestinian decision against the Arab League, after the latter had failed to condemn the Arab normalization agreements with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. This is definitely going to fan the pages of someone’s Koran.










						Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years" | PMW Analysis
					

“PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”




					palwatch.org
				




Leading Arab newspaper credits PMW for fighting PA terror for "more than 30 years"

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Aug 14, 2020

Saudi owned Asharq Al-Awsat:
“The campaign was launched by a right-wing Israeli organization "Palestinian Media Watch”…[which] has been working for more than 30 years against the PLO and the Palestinian Authority, claiming that they are running anti-Jewish policies, approaches and practices that support terrorism.”

“PMW played a central role in the campaign against paying salaries to Palestinian detainees serving sentences in Israeli prisons, as well as to the families of the deceased.”

Asharq Al-Awsat, a Saudi owned news outlet that is known for being a leading Arab daily newspaper, published an article describing the work of Palestinian Media Watch. In the article, special attention was given to PMW’s central role in the new initiative to have the Palestinian Authority funded Commission for Prisoners’ Affairs designated by the US administration as a “sponsor of terror,” and designated by the Israeli government as a “terror organization”.

The article cites PMW’s report which was adopted by Congressman Doug Lamborn in his letter to President Trump, recommending that the PA Head of the Prisoners’ Commission Qadri Abu Bakr and the Commission itself be designated as “sponsor of terror” in accordance with Executive Order 13224.

Following Lamborn’s letter, a number of MK’s similarly wrote to Israeli Defense Minister, Benjamin Gantz, calling on him to declare the Commission a terror organization.


----------



## Hollie

Interesting article about the ''post Palestine'' age. The article speaks affirmatively about the Arabs in the region moving away from the history that defined its intolerance toward Israel and using ''Palestine'' as a bloody truncheon to flail away at the Jewish State.

There's a lot of room for optimism and there's nothing like some economic benefits for all concerned to seal the deal. 











						A Post-Palestine Middle East
					

When I was a 14-year-old jihadist wannabe in Cairo in 2003, I didn’t care about Egyptian politics, Arabs, Hosni Mubarak, regional powers, Arab monarchy, Arab republicanism, capitalism, or any of




					www.commentarymagazine.com
				




For this regional Arab power to formally accept the Jewish State of Israel is to inaugurate the end of the long Arab march toward self-destruction and catastrophe that has devastated the region. The promise of bin Zayed’s decision will reverberate in Tehran, Doha, Ankara, and beyond. It could well save the region from its native predatory powers, secure the legitimacy of standing Arab states, and even rescue Islam from the lunacy of Islamism. In future history books, the years between 1948 and 2020—which saw the rise of Arab nationalism, Islamism, jihadism, global Islamic terrorism, a theocratic Iran, and the Arab Spring—will be viewed as the Palestine age. And it is the Arab powers that were able to survive the Palestine age that are now declaring its death.


----------



## Hollie

The Palis are getting more deranged by the day. 











						PA: Beware “alliance with the Jews… obedience to the Jews” | PMW Analysis
					

“There is nothing that harms Palestine and its holy sites more than making an alliance with the Jews”




					palwatch.org
				




*PA: Beware “alliance with the Jews… obedience to the Jews”*
Itamar Marcus  | Sep 17, 2020

*PA Ministry of Religious Affairs dictates content for all tomorrow’s sermons:*

*“There is nothing that harms Palestine… more than making an alliance with the Jews”*
*“Obedience to the Jews… will lead to humiliation and shame.”*
The Palestinian Authority exposed its true essence as a Jew-hating antisemitic body by condemning the peace agreements signed this week between Israel, the UAE, and Bahrain, because it is an “alliance with the Jews.” Not only is this what the PA believes but this hate message was disseminated by the PA Ministry of Religious Affairs to all mosques in the PA, as part of the instructions to preachers on what to say in their sermons to be given in the PA on Friday.
The weekly instruction sheet disseminated by the PA Ministry of Religion delineates the content to be preached in all sermons in PA mosques, and is signed by Husam Abu Al-Rub, the Deputy Minister of Religious Affairs. For tomorrows sermons, the PA Imams have been instructed to condemn the peace agreement signed this past week and to condemn the Arab countries for signing. There are nine short messages that are to be included in the sermon and this is the first one:


> *“There is nothing that harms Palestine and its holy sites more than making an alliance with the Jews, being connected to them, and relying on them.”*


----------



## Hollie

The end result of Pali psychopathology.


Gazan Poet Rihab Kanaan Honors Female Terrorists, Suicide Bombers on International Women's Day


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I think he wants a franchise to run a gift shop.


----------



## Hollie

It sure looks like the KSA is on a path to follow the UAE and Bahrain to ''normalize'' relations with Israel. 











						Israel ‘normalisation’: Is Saudi Arabia softening its stance?
					

After deals with UAE and Bahrain, there are signs Saudi Arabia is preparing its people to warm to Israel.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




When one of Saudi Arabia's leading Muslim leaders called this month for Muslims to avoid "passionate emotions and fiery enthusiasm" towards Jews, it was a marked change in tone for someone who has shed tears preaching about Palestine in the past.


----------



## Hollie

The Pali mosques are going to be used to ramp up the hate. 

This is all really standard fare where Allah is introduced as the aggrieved party, therefore, threats and attacks become a religious duty. They will even invoke their hate and war manual: the Koran, to justify their threats. 











						Mosques instruct Palestinians to reject peace deals as world celebrates
					

This Friday, September 18, Imams have been instructed to condemn the peace deals, and to warn that they pose a danger to those who signed them.




					m.jpost.com
				




Palestinians throughout the West Bank attending mosque this Friday will be told in the sermon that the peace deals signed between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain this week amount to high treason against the Palestinian cause, and are condemned by Allah himself.

Each week the Palestinian Authority's Ministry of Religion disseminates an instruction sheet outlining the content to be preached in all PA mosques during Friday prayers for that week. This Friday, September 18, Imams have been instructed to condemn the peace deals, and to warn that they pose a danger to those who signed them. The instruction sheet includes a list of surahs - chapters from the Quran - which underscore the PA's belief in the religious imperative to oppose the peace treaty.


----------



## Hollie

The Pali leadership seems to believe they are in a position of decision-making for Arab nations in the region. 

The UAE, Bahrain and others have a very different take on things. Maybe a Pal intifada directed at Arab states will be next. 












						Palestine vows prevention of further Arab-Israel normalisation of relations
					

The Palestinian leadership is acting to "prevent more Arab countries from normalizing relations with Israel", a senior official said




					www.business-standard.com
				




The Palestinian leadership is acting to "prevent more Arab countries from normalizing relations with Israel", a senior official said here.


----------



## Mindful

*Arabs: "Palestinians Repeat the Same Mistakes"*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
September 21, 2020 at 5:00 am*




At this pace, Palestinians might wake up one morning to discover that they no longer have any friends in the Arab countries at all.
"The Palestinians failed to establish their state. They failed because they did not want to establish a state. Here I mean the political leaders, some of whom still insist on repeating revolutionary phrases. The establishment of a Palestinian state will be a burden on the Palestinian leaders and will prevent them from practicing corruption.... The Palestinian Authority is no longer suitable to represent the Palestinian people." — Iraqi writer Farouk Youssef, _Al-Arabiya,_ September 19, 2020.
"Israel did not destroy Syria; Israel did not burn Libya; Israel did not displace the people of Egypt; Israel did not destroy Libya, and Israel did not tear up Lebanon. Before you Arabs blame Israel, take a look at yourselves in the mirror. The problem is in you." — UAE Islamic cleric Wassem Yousef, Twitter, September 16, 2020.
"Palestinian leaders failed to invest in opportunities. They failed to take strategic decisions and chose [instead] to forge an alliance with Iran." — Saudi writer Yusef al-Qabalan, _Al-Riyadh,_ September 18, 2020.
The biggest losers, of course, are again the Palestinians -- who are quickly losing the sympathy of a growing number of Arabs. 









						Arabs: "Palestinians Repeat the Same Mistakes"
					

At this pace, Palestinians might wake up one morning to discover that they no longer have any friends in the Arab countries at all. "The Palestinians failed to establish their state. They failed because they did not want to establish a state. Here I mean




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Work accident! (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



We need to tighten up student visas.
Stop letting terrorists come to school in Illinois.


----------



## Hollie

Azzam “The Defender” Al-Ahmad has some odd notion that Fatah is the defender of Arabism in the region. 



Fatah Central Committee Member: Palestinians Defend the Entire Arab Nation from the Zionist Designs


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Oz and the Orchestra, et al,

*BLUF: * They are getting desperate.



Hollie said:


> Azzam “The Defender” Al-Ahmad has some odd notion that Fatah is the defender of Arabism in the region.
> Fatah Central Committee Member: Palestinians Defend the Entire Arab Nation from the Zionist Designs


*(COMMENT)*

I cannot speak the language, but they all seem to sound the same.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Palestinians are still living in the past while Israel and other some Middle East countries are moving forward. This is why the Palestinians will NEVER have a future .


----------



## Hollie

Looks like a well thought out plan. The Palis are doing everything they can to vilify and denigrate the UAE, Bahrain and Arab leaders in general.

You wouldn’t normally think such a strategy is going to accrue much in your favor.


Fatah: “If Trump would have asked some of the Arab rulers to strip and walk naked in the streets of Tel Aviv – they would agree”
Well thought out. Those suitcases full of cash from Arab nations may be a little slow in coming, but that’s just one opinion.


*PMW Special Report: PA: UAE and Bahrain sign deal with death*
Itamar Marcus, Nan Jacques Zilberdik, and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  |Sep 22, 2020

Fatah: “If Trump would have asked some of the Arab rulers to strip and walk naked in the streets of Tel Aviv – they would agree”
PA furious that Arab states stopped following its dictates and made peace with Israel
Fatah: Normalizing with Israel - a partnership of blood and death
*




*

PA: “A traitor” and a “tumor” - UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayedis destined for “the trash can of history”
Fatah posts Bahraini children’s poem: “Jews are [our dogs]”
“The PA leadership rejects and condemns the tripartite agreement between the US, Bahrain, and Israel to normalize the relations between the Israeli occupation state and the Kingdom of Bahrain, and views it as a betrayal of Jerusalem, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the Palestinian cause”
Fatah threat: “To all the bats lying in ambush in the dark… Fatah’s traps are hidden, so woe to anyone who is tempted and thinks that the Palestinian people will agree to bend the knee.”
PA warning: “Israel will eat the flesh of the UAE and cast aside its bones”
Fatah symbolically buries the Arab League


----------



## Hollie

Oh my. We may be at the event horizon of an Islamo turf war. 










						Palestinians arrest supporters of Abbas political rival based in UAE
					

The arrests were carried out in the West Bank and included Haytham al-Halabi and Salim Abu Safia, both senior members of Dahlan's faction, a statement from the group said.




					m.jpost.com
				




The arrests were carried out in the West Bank and included Haytham al-Halabi and Salim Abu Safia, both senior members of Dahlan's faction, a statement from the group said.

RAMALLAH, West Bank/GAZA  - Palestinian security forces arrested over half a dozen supporters of an exiled Palestinian politician who some have accused of involvement in the United Arab Emirates deal to forge ties with Israel, a spokesman for his faction said.

Mohammed Dahlan has lived in the UAE since being driven out of the West Bank in 2011 after a bitter row with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his political party Fatah, of which Dahlan is a member.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*:  This may be a counter-productive political move.  This is activity by the government most closely associated with "*repressive regimes*." This is the Abbas Government (and Fatah) writing their own epitaph.



Hollie said:


> Oh my. We may be at the event horizon of an Islamo turf war.
> .............................................
> "*RAMALLAH, West Bank/GAZA * - Palestinian security forces arrested over half a dozen supporters of an exiled Palestinian politician who some have accused of involvement in the United Arab Emirates deal to forge ties with Israel, a spokesman for his faction said."


*(COMMENT)*

What is the strategy _(I wonder)_?  How does this help the Palestinians _(motive)_?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

> The Palestinian Memory Museum project designed by the students Fahmy Daher and Islam Al-Haddad in an interior design course at Al-Aqsa University. The project reviews the memory of the place in a visual narrative that employs drama to present the Palestinian narrative in an effective and convincing way to the world in confronting the Israeli narrative that our enemies succeeded in establishing through the Holocaust museums that are spreading In more than 60 countries in the world.


They actually seem jealous of the Holocaust, because they want to be the world's greatest victims. But they look at the Holocaust not as a historic genocide of millions of people but as an excuse for Jews to get a state.

(full article online)









						Gaza's Al Aqsa University: Holocaust museums are Zionist propaganda
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Its so cute when the insufferable throwbacks find common ground to ensure their own destruction.










						PA unites with Hamas and other terror organizations to renew terror strategy | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas “told Hamas, whatever you reach with Fatah, I agree to it" – says top PLO official




					palwatch.org
				





*PA unites with Hamas and other terror organizations to renew terror strategy*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 23, 2020

*Fatah to cooperate with Hamas in “armed struggle,” with Abbas’ support*
*Abbas told Hamas: "Whatever you reach with Fatah, I agree to it" – says top PLO official*
*Abbas declares “no reservations about any action” – including armed struggle*
*Hamas leader: Joint Palestinian committee to “develop the popular resistance, which may develop into a popular intifada”*
*Top PA/Fatah official threatens Israel: “All possibilities are open,” “struggle” will escalate from peaceful to violence*
*Violence – “struggle in all its forms” – is our right, according to international resolutions, says Fatah official*
*Goal of committee is “to restore the shine of the popular resistance, and to set it in motion towards becoming a comprehensive popular intifada” – says PLO official*
*Hamas leader: “Hamas won’t recognize Israel… armed struggle is a strategic choice”*
*The new joint committee: “We promise that we will not return the sword to the sheath… This is a revolution and resistance until victory, until victory”*
*PA editorial cautioned against armed struggle – not because it is morally reprehensible but because world opinion is against it, even though it is “permitted”*
PA Chairman Abbas has made a strong and clear statement of support for the PA’s return to terror. His statement was even turned into a TV filler being broadcast on official PA TV.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  This may be a counter-productive political move.  This is activity by the government most closely associated with "*repressive regimes*." This is the Abbas Government (and Fatah) writing their own epitaph.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. We may be at the event horizon of an Islamo turf war.
> .............................................
> "*RAMALLAH, West Bank/GAZA * - Palestinian security forces arrested over half a dozen supporters of an exiled Palestinian politician who some have accused of involvement in the United Arab Emirates deal to forge ties with Israel, a spokesman for his faction said."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is the strategy _(I wonder)_?  How does this help the Palestinians _(motive)_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Based on the latest news, (post 17,487), I don't believe Hamas or Fatah have any coherent plan. It seems policy decisions are driven by emotion and events at the moment. It's just predictable that whatever decision the angry, irrational factions make will be the wrong decision.


----------



## Hollie

Zoom Refuses Service to University Planned Discussion With Convicted Terrorist
					

Leading video conferencing service Zoom has seen a year of success and growth as it has made its services indispensable during the time of social distancing during the Wuhan coronavirus




					townhall.com
				






This sounds like a lovely evening of hate, derision and possibly gunfire.

“Leila will engage in a conversation with public intellectuals, scholars and other long time internationalist leaders from Palestine, South Africa, the US Black liberation struggle, and anti-Zionist Jewish sisters and brothers," said Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi. "This historic conversation will engage in critical narratives of resistance, resilience, and gender and sexual justice that is timely and urgent in today’s world of white supremacy, racism, discrimination, and xenophobia."


The theme for the “historic conversation” is along the lines of “_Keel da’ white devil”_



Zoom media has made a corporate decision:

Zoom is committed to supporting the open exchange of ideas and conversations, subject to certain limitations contained in our Terms of Service, including those related to user compliance with applicable U.S. export control, sanctions, and anti-terrorism laws," the company said in a statement on Tuesday to the Lawfare Project, who has been assisting End Jew Hatred. "In light of the speaker’s reported affiliation or membership in a U.S. designated foreign terrorist organization, and SFSU’s inability to confirm otherwise, we determined the meeting is in violation of Zoom’s Terms of Service and told SFSU they may not use Zoom for this particular event."


----------



## Hollie

According to webmd.com
*Signs* of *Clinical* *Depression*: Symptoms to Watch For
They can include:

Trouble concentrating, remembering details, and making decisions
Fatigue
Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, and helplessness










						Palestine quits Arab League role in protest over Israel deals
					

Palestine was meant to chair Arab League meetings for next six months, but FM Riyad al-Maliki has declined the position.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Palestine has quit its current chairmanship of Arab League meetings, the Palestinian foreign minister said on Tuesday, condemning as dishonourable any Arab agreement to establish formal ties with Israel.

Palestinians see the deals that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain signed with Israel in Washington a week ago as a betrayal of their cause and a blow to their quest for an independent state in Israeli-occupied territory.


----------



## Hollie

Lovely folks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:*  Every time the Arab Palestinians try to do something of worth, they make it even more screwed-up.



Hollie said:


> Lovely folks.


*(COMMENT)*

After April 1950 and before the Six-Day War (1967), the West Bank and Jerusalem were part of Sovereign Jordan. The Kingdom sponsored elections and a new Jordanian parliament in which the "Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented." And while the Arab Palestinians of today might say that the Annexation by Jordan was illegal or unrecognized by the international community.

At that meeting of the Arab League, the "annexation of Arab Palestine was determined to be irrevocable.   Jordan did not abandon this sovereignty until 31 July 1988, when King Hussein announced Jordan abandon all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank; effectively leaving it in the hands of the Israelis (_terra nullius_).  At the time of the abandonment, the Arab Palestinians had no declared independence by the habitual inhabitance; but no recognized entity with the following qualifications: 

(a)  a  permanent population;​(b)  a  defined territory;​(c)  government;  and​(d)  capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​
It was not until 15 November 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, established its political framework for the State of Palestine.  But the PLO did not establish political authority over any territory and had been unable to establish sovereignty; even over the territory once occupied by Arab League Forces.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Every time the Arab Palestinians try to do something of worth, they make it even more screwed-up.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After April 1950 and before the Six-Day War (1967), the West Bank and Jerusalem were part of Sovereign Jordan. The Kingdom sponsored elections and a new Jordanian parliament in which the "Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented." And while the Arab Palestinians of today might say that the Annexation by Jordan was illegal or unrecognized by the international community.
> 
> At that meeting of the Arab League, the "annexation of Arab Palestine was determined to be irrevocable.   Jordan did not abandon this sovereignty until 31 July 1988, when King Hussein announced Jordan abandon all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank; effectively leaving it in the hands of the Israelis (_terra nullius_).  At the time of the abandonment, the Arab Palestinians had no declared independence by the habitual inhabitance; but no recognized entity with the following qualifications:
> 
> (a)  a  permanent population;​(b)  a  defined territory;​(c)  government;  and​(d)  capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​
> It was not until 15 November 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, established its political framework for the State of Palestine.  But the PLO did not establish political authority over any territory and had been unable to establish sovereignty; even over the territory once occupied by Arab League Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is difficult to give any credence to the PLO. A label for window dressing on a building engulfed in flames. As to the failed wars of anhiliation waged by the arabs in their hope to destroy Israel, those were spectacular failures. Borders were established after Israel had won offensive wars started by Arabs (the borders that in any other conflict in the world would be subject to the victor's discretion), and borders established by treaty between Israel and Arab autocrats.

It’s easy to be pessimistic about the prospects for any type of “State” as it relates to the Palestinians. The precipitator to the actions of the Pals has been a violent and intransigent Arab/Moslem culture which is content to throw their children onto bonfires of hatred, so long as Jews are killed.

The culture is dominated either by the unreformed seventh century religion of the tribal Arab or by the greedy and equally brutal Arab autocrat. It’s easy to be pessimistic due to the undeniable reality of the ancient Arab social concept of honor at all costs and the unholy insensate rage of gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

The EU has this apparent willingness to prop up the Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate. 










						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




While the Palestinian Authority positively refuses to accept an estimated 2.5 billion shekels (€610,111,437) in taxes that Israel is ready to transfer to it, the EU is again pandering to the PA tantrums and stepping in to pay the salaries of the health and education workers.

An EU press statement on Sept. 2, 2020 declared that the “The European Union has today provided a contribution of €9 million to the July salaries of health and education workers and the pensions of more than 37,500 Palestinian civil servants in the West Bank.” [Website of the Office of the European Union Representative (West Bank and Gaza Strip, UNRWA)]


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Rami Aman, two others indicted for ‘weakening revolutionary spirit’ by joining ‘Skype With Your Enemy’ conversation; they have been held without trial since April*










						Hamas charges three Gaza activists for pro-peace video call with Israelis
					

Rami Aman, two others indicted for 'weakening revolutionary spirit' by joining 'Skype With Your Enemy' conversation; they have been held without trial since April




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's persecution of Khalida Jarrar Member of Palestinian Parliament*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel's persecution of Khalida Jarrar Member of Palestinian Parliament*


Islamic terrorism carries consequences


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud “_I have a Plaque_” Abbas realizing that the Pali ship has sailed is desperate to find relevance in a world that has left him behind.h









						Palestine’s Mahmoud Abbas asks UN for international peace conference next year
					

UNITED NATIONS, New York: Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has called for an international conference early next year to “launch a genuine peace process” while criticizing the recent decision of two Arab countries to normalize relations with Israel.




					www.arabnews.com
				










In this image made from UNTV video, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas speaks in a pre-recorded message which was played during the 75th session of the United Nations General Assembly, Friday, Sept. 25, 2020. (UNTV via AP)
Short Url



Abbas spoke before a large plaque reading “State of Palestine”
Abbas seemed to acknowledge the growing international weariness with the decades-old conflict


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel's persecution of Khalida Jarrar Member of Palestinian Parliament*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences
Click to expand...

Where is that stupid post button?

Khalida Jarrar is a Christian. Israel has noone of her stature.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Where is that stupid post button?



I thought you were the caretaker.


----------



## Hollie

Looks like Zoom has decided that their network guidelines / anti terrorism statutes won't allow for legitimizing Islamic terrorists. 










						A vicious Palestinian terrorist’s university speech gets canceled. Good.
					

This hate-fest has been canceled. Leila Khaled, revered by some on the left as “the first female hijacker” — a violent thug who made her bones traumatizing innocents in her quest to destroy I…




					nypost.com
				





This hate-fest has been canceled.

Leila Khaled, revered by some on the left as “the first female hijacker” — a violent thug who made her bones traumatizing innocents in her quest to destroy Israel and the West — was scheduled to spread her brand of vicious anti-Semitism Wednesday in a remote speech at San Francisco State University. But after my column on the insane event ran in The Post, Zoom pulled the plug.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. What's an Islamic terrorist syndicate to do when the welfare money dries up?











						Palestinian funding from Arab countries dropped by 85% in 2020
					

Their financial situation deteriorated amid the coronavirus pandemic, but also during a period when normalization agreements were being negotiated between several Gulf states and Israel.




					www.jpost.com
				





SEPTEMBER 24, 2020 10:28






PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY President Mahmoud Abbas gestures during a meeting to discuss the UAE’S deal with Israel to normalize relations, in Ramallah last month.
(photo credit: MOHAMAD TOROKMAN/REUTERS)

Palestinian officials have a feeling that the recent normalization agreements between Gulf states and Israel have led to a sudden decrease in funding from Arab states to the Palestinian Authority.

According to _The New Arab_ and data from the Palestinian Finance Ministry service, Ramallah has received no aid from Arab countries since March, in addition to a 50% decrease in foreign aid.


----------



## Hollie

Something of a statement about Arab-Moslem intransigence and the willingness of Islamic terrorist dictators to exploit an international welfare system. 

Decades of failure and incompetence at everything but gaining personal wealth leads Islamic terrorists to ''stay the course''. 












						Palestinian leaders stay the course as crises mount
					

RAMALLAH, West Bank — In three decades of failed peace efforts, the Palestinians have never faced a more hostile U.S. administration, a more self-assured...




					www.post-gazette.com
				





RAMALLAH, West Bank — In three decades of failed peace efforts, the Palestinians have never faced a more hostile U.S. administration, a more self-assured Israel or a more ambivalent international community.

But even as their hopes for statehood have never seemed so dim, there’s no indication their aging leadership will change course.

President Mahmoud Abbas remains committed to the same strategy he has pursued for decades — seeking international support to pressure Israel to agree to a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem, lands Israel seized in the 1967 Mideast war.


----------



## Hollie

Street protests, finger wagging and.... not much else.

After decades of pursuing the same failed policies, the Pali enclaves seem determined to remain their greatest obstacle. 










						More than 200,000 sign anti-normalisation ‘Palestine Charter’
					

Online charter calls for liberation of occupied Palestine and affirms normalisation with Israel is a ‘betrayal’.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On September 13, 2020, Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) aired a documentary about the Hamas missile manufacturing industry. The reporter explained how Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades have been reclaiming unexploded Israeli munitions from 2014's Operation Protective Edge, metal water pipes left behind by Israel when it withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, and cannon shells from the wrecks of British warships that sank near Gaza during World War I. The documentary featured interviews with the commanders of the Al-Qassam Brigades' Military Production Units, Engineering Corps, Artillery Corps, and Frogmen Unit, who described the process of reclaiming these munitions and turning them into functional missiles. 

The report also showed exclusive footage of this process, including footage of divers retrieving underwater shells, of metals being processed, of explosives being prepared, and of missiles being tested. Furthermore, the reporter and the interviewees explained that Iran has been shipping Kornet anti-tank missiles and Fajr missiles to Gaza by land and by sea. Abu Ibrahim, the Commander of the Military Productions Unit, said that Hamas has hundreds of warheads, dozens of tons of explosives and propellants, and enough metal water pipes to produce thousands of rockets._

(full article online)









						Al-Jazeera Network Documentary About The Hamas Missile Industry: Iran Sends Kornet, Fajr Missiles To Gaza; Hamas Produces Missiles From Unexploded Israeli Munitions And Shells From Wrecked WWI Ships
					

On September 13, 2020, Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) aired a documentary about the Hamas missile manufacturing industry. The reporter explained how Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades have been reclaiming unexploded Israeli munitions from 2014's Operation Protective Edge, metal water pipes left behind by...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is notable that he didn't attack Bahrain and the UAE for violating the Arab Peace Initiative - but Israel, which never agreed to it. Perhaps Abbas realized that his attacks on Gulf Arab states did not have the desired effect.



> The Palestine Liberation Organization has not given a mandate to anyone to speak or negotiate on behalf of the Palestinian people ...


Actually, they have. They outsourced all negotiations to the EU, the UN, the Obama administration, while they sat back and waited for pressure to collapse Israel. 



> In this regard, I call on the Secretary-General of the United Nations to undertake, in cooperation with the Quartet and the Security Council, preparations to convene an international conference with full authority and with the participation of all concerned parties, early next year, to engage in a genuine peace process, based on international law, UN resolutions and the relevant terms of reference, leading to an end the occupation and the achievement by the Palestinian people of their freedom and independence within their State, with East Jerusalem as its capital, on the 1967 borders, and resolving all final status issues, notably the question of the refugees, based on resolution 194.


This is a meaningless appeal to try to look like Abbas has something new to say, while trying to get back to getting the world to pressure Israel.

Now comes the part he can't resist:





> Let everyone know there will be no peace, no security, no stability and no coexistence in our region while this occupation continues and a just, comprehensive solution to the question of Palestine, the core of the conflict, remains denied.


As he has done so many times before, he is threatening terror if Palestinians don't get what they want. 

Finally, some comedy:





> In Palestine, ladies and gentlemen, there is a living nation, creative, civilized, peace-loving, aspiring passionately to freedom. A nation that has been able – despite the occupation that besieges our lives – to build an active and modern society, that believes in democracy and the rule of law and has been able to preserve its national existence and identity despite all the political and philosophical differences between its diverse components. Here we are, despite all the obstacles that you know too well, preparing ourselves to hold parliamentary elections, followed by presidential elections, with the participation of all factions and political parties.


Will this be the time they have elections when the last dozen times they promised elections didn't pan out? Well, since they believe in democracy, no doubt.

(full article online)









						Abbas made a speech at the UN with his usual lies and threats to world peace. No one cared.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is harboring some confusion about a “just and lasting peace”.  Israel normalizing relations with Arab nations in the region is an obvious case of peace and cooperation being seen as mutually beneficial. 











						Israel normalisation deals ‘violation of just and lasting’ peace
					

Mahmoud Abbas calls for international conference early next year to ‘launch a genuine peace process’.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has criticised the recent decision of two Arab countries to normalise diplomatic relations with Israel as a “violation” of a “just and lasting solution under international law”.


----------



## Hollie

The UN clown show was quite the spectacle. The “President of the State of Pal’istan” (whatever that is), was yattering about a “just solution to the Pal’istan question”.

The dictator of an Islamic terrorist enclave was lecturing others about a “just solution”.

Comedy gold. 











						How long must we wait for a just solution, Palestinian President Abbas asks world leaders
					

The President of the State of Palestine addressed, via a pre-recorded video, the United Nations General Assembly on Friday, highlighting the suffering of his people and the misery they experience every day “while the world stands by watching.”




					news.un.org
				




How long do we have to wait until there is a just solution to the Palestine question, a solution guaranteed by international law,” he asked world leaders gathered virtually for the UN Assembly’s annual high-level debate.


----------



## Hollie

I don't think the Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicate should expect Christmas cards from Dubai this years.



*‘Hamas Can Go to Hell!’ Says Dubai Deputy Police Chief*






__





						‘Hamas Can Go to Hell!’ Says Dubai Deputy Police Chief – Geller Report
					





					gellerreport.com
				





Dubai Deputy Police Chief Lt. Gen. Dhahi Khalfan Tamim said on Tuesday that the normalization agreement between Israel and the United Arab Emirates is good for regional stability and security.

“Israel never threatened us. [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdoğan did. Iran is threatening us,” Tamim told Kuwait’s Diwan Al-Mullah Online TV.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud is bolstering his Emir'ship by ''disappearing'' his competition. That competition has described itself by adopting the ''Revolutionary'' label common to third world dictators and Iranian Mullocrats. 

Shockingly, I haven't read where the ICC has put the Abbas mini-caliphate at the end of a wagging finger "condemning in the strongest terns'' these actions. 










						Arrest campaign targets allies of Palestinian MP
					

GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank. The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas. Key members of...




					www.arabnews.com
				




GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank.

The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas.

Key members of the Fatah Revolutionary Council, former security officials and university professors have been arrested. These include Haitham Al-Halabi, a member of the Revolutionary Council in the Nablus, and Maj. Gen. Salim Abu Safiya, a former security official in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

I tell ya', nothing says ''new phase'' in islamo-dictatorships like the current dictator rounding up and jailing the competition.









						Arrest campaign targets allies of Palestinian MP
					

GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank. The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas. Key members of...




					www.arabnews.com
				






So.... as a part of the ''new phase'', of the same old, same old phases of the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates, the Fatah and Hamas Islamic dictatorships met in the remains of the Ottoman Turk Caliphate, presumably to map out the dictatorship structure and power sharing / welfare fraud management arrangement for the new Pali order.









						Palestine politics: Could a unified leadership and elections herald a new era?
					

Following a meeting in Turkey, Fatah and Hamas announced a new roadmap for elections in Palestine




					www.middleeasteye.net
				





During their meeting last week in Turkey, the Palestinian Fatah and Hamas movements finally agreed to present a joint vision on legislative and presidential elections to be held in the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem within six months.

The announcement by the erstwhile rivals suggested they were starting a new push towards Palestinian reconciliation and ending the bitter political division that has existed since the 2006 parliamentary elections - leaving Fatah in charge of the Palestian Authority (PA) in the occupied West Bank, and Hamas ruling in the besieged Gaza Strip.





Hey, nothing says ''new order'' and ''elections'' like the current dictator rounding up the competition.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. It looks the round up of opponents of Emir Abbas is going full Soviet style collectivism.











						Arrest campaign targets allies of Palestinian MP
					

GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank. The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas. Key members of...




					www.arabnews.com
				




GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank.

The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas.

Key members of the Fatah Revolutionary Council, former security officials and university professors have been arrested. These include Haitham Al-Halabi, a member of the Revolutionary Council in the Nablus, and Maj. Gen. Salim Abu Safiya, a former security official in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gee whiz. It looks the round up of opponents of Emir Abbas is going full Soviet style collectivism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest campaign targets allies of Palestinian MP
> 
> 
> GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank. The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas. Key members of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arabnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank.
> 
> The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> Key members of the Fatah Revolutionary Council, former security officials and university professors have been arrested. These include Haitham Al-Halabi, a member of the Revolutionary Council in the Nablus, and Maj. Gen. Salim Abu Safiya, a former security official in the Gaza Strip.


Abbas' term in office expired in 2009. Why is he still called president?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. It looks the round up of opponents of Emir Abbas is going full Soviet style collectivism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest campaign targets allies of Palestinian MP
> 
> 
> GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank. The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas. Key members of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arabnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA CITY: Palestinian Authority security services recently began a campaign to arrest opposition activists in the West Bank.
> 
> The campaign has targeted activists in the Democratic Reform Bloc of parliament member Muhammad Dahlan, a high-profile critic of President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> Key members of the Fatah Revolutionary Council, former security officials and university professors have been arrested. These include Haitham Al-Halabi, a member of the Revolutionary Council in the Nablus, and Maj. Gen. Salim Abu Safiya, a former security official in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas' term in office expired in 2009. Why is he still called president?
Click to expand...

Ask the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal’istanians


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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Now this is odd. The Pali land stealing includes illegal construction to build a de facto state.

Wasn't the ''state of Pal'istan'' invented back in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne, ignoring of course, that the Treaty never identifies any such ''state''?











						Chalk up another one for the Palestinian Authority
					

One more illegal school joins the rapidly growing roster of similar structures built by the Palestinian Authority at lightning speed. The newest to join the ranks is an illegal school built overnight – literally – in the Jordan Valley. Regavim: “While the Israeli government chatters about...




					www.jns.org
				




One more illegal school joins the rapidly growing roster of similar structures built by the Palestinian Authority at lightning speed. The newest to join the ranks is an illegal school built overnight – literally – in the Jordan Valley. Regavim: “While the Israeli government chatters about sovereignty in the Jordan Valley, the Palestinian Authority is hard at work building a de facto state.”


----------



## Hollie

How to be an islamist terrorist supermom.


----------



## Hollie

Omar is threatening a gee-had on UAE banks. 



This from the hypocrite who maintains Israeli citizenship and holds a degree from an Israeli university.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamist terrorist clown show putting their welfare fraud money to work. 










						Abbas’ latest joke: Appoint terrorists to fight terror | PMW Analysis
					

In a revealing interview, the Director of the Palestinian Authority-funded ‎Commission of Prisoners and Released Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, made ‎three exceptional revelations




					palwatch.org
				





*“Money for nothing”  
‎– the PA version of Dire Straits*

*PA planning to absorb released terrorists into the PA Security Forces ‎*
*PA pays released terrorists high monthly salaries for not working*
*‎PA grants terrorists free university education, professional training, and ‎even dental work ‎*




In a revealing interview, the Director of the Palestinian Authority-funded ‎Commission of Prisoners and Released Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, made ‎three exceptional revelations – all of which are relevant for the PA’s foreign donors. ‎They show what the PA prioritizes spending its money on, and ultimately, what ‎purposes the foreign donors are helping to fund.‎

Since Palestinian Media Watch exposed the PA’s terror reward payments, many ‎countries who donate funds to the PA earmark their donations for specific ‎purposes, such as the payment of the salaries of civil servants. According to Abu ‎Bakr, the PA’s latest exercise in deception is to recruit released terrorists - to whom ‎the PA pays salaries for doing nothing - to fulfill ostensibly legitimate PA positions, ‎and thereby deceive the world into funding the PA’s outrageous terror reward ‎program. Most outrageously, it appears that the PA is going to integrate the released ‎terrorists into positions in the PA security forces - the very same forces tasked with ‎fighting terrorism.‎

During the interview, Abu Bakr admitted that there are 7,000 - 8,000 released ‎terrorist prisoners who receive a monthly salary from the PA for doing nothing! ‎


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie




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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Your usual considered, insightful commentary.


----------



## Hollie

Ok, students. Today’s Islamo-math lesson will focus on counting the number of dead martyrs in a photograph.

And remember students, next years class of Islamo-death cultists is “counting on you” to be a part of their lesson.











						Palestinians continue to incite terrorism and violence in school curriculum, says watchdog group
					

The main findings of the report show that the 2020-21 textbooks promote anti-Semitism, reject peace, and fail to discuss tolerance and coexistence.




					www.jns.org
				





September 30, 2020 / JNS) A Palestinian student in fourth grade opens his math book and is asked to count the number of martyrs in Palestinian uprisings based on an accompanying photograph of raised coffins at a mass funeral. A reading exercise with the letter “h” (hāʾ, ه) for first-graders includes the word shahid (“martyr”), placed in a list of other words that include hujum (“attack”) and harab (“run away”).


----------



## Hollie

Once again, we see that Islamic terrorism of the Pali kind is enabled by western donated welfare money. 












						How Denmark, Sweden, the U.N., and the EU Got Suckered Into Funding a Terror Organization
					

The PFLP’s grotesque hybrid of a terror arm and an NGO network murders innocent people while raking in millions from the West




					www.tabletmag.com
				




The arrests in December 2019 of 50 suspected members of the sizable terrorist infrastructure of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in Ramallah, which was responsible for the terror attack in which teenager Rina Shnerb was murdered and her father and brother were injured last summer (Aug. 23, 2019), exposed the significant magnitude of PFLP terror networks and their capacity to strike within Israel. Perhaps more ominously, it also exposed the self-deception under which many left activists operate in Europe and the United States.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Once again, we see that Islamic terrorism of the Pali kind is enabled by western donated welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Denmark, Sweden, the U.N., and the EU Got Suckered Into Funding a Terror Organization
> 
> 
> The PFLP’s grotesque hybrid of a terror arm and an NGO network murders innocent people while raking in millions from the West
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tabletmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrests in December 2019 of 50 suspected members of the sizable terrorist infrastructure of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in Ramallah, which was responsible for the terror attack in which teenager Rina Shnerb was murdered and her father and brother were injured last summer (Aug. 23, 2019), exposed the significant magnitude of PFLP terror networks and their capacity to strike within Israel. Perhaps more ominously, it also exposed the self-deception under which many left activists operate in Europe and the United States.


Oooo, you played terrorist cards.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, we see that Islamic terrorism of the Pali kind is enabled by western donated welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Denmark, Sweden, the U.N., and the EU Got Suckered Into Funding a Terror Organization
> 
> 
> The PFLP’s grotesque hybrid of a terror arm and an NGO network murders innocent people while raking in millions from the West
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tabletmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrests in December 2019 of 50 suspected members of the sizable terrorist infrastructure of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in Ramallah, which was responsible for the terror attack in which teenager Rina Shnerb was murdered and her father and brother were injured last summer (Aug. 23, 2019), exposed the significant magnitude of PFLP terror networks and their capacity to strike within Israel. Perhaps more ominously, it also exposed the self-deception under which many left activists operate in Europe and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooo, you played terrorist cards.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


You should retire the silly cut and paste slogans you have dumped in threads for many years.

I understand your feelings are hurt but your tender sensibilities are not an impediment that will cause me not to speak out against Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

This could be a real problem with those suitcases full of cash from Qatar being few and far between.













						Visa, Mastercard called upon to cut ties with Palestinian terror funding
					

Both companies have been warned that continuing to offer credit services to banks processing terror funding is a contravention of the law.




					m.jpost.com
				





Mastercard and Visa have been warned to immediately cut ties with banks operating in the West Bank or risk legal liability for funding terror. They have also been advised not to provide services for a new bank being set up by the Palestinian Authority, as it is being created explicitly for the purpose of continued terror funding. 

Since its creation in 1994, the PA has paid monthly salaries to terrorists and the families of killed terrorists in so called 'pay for slay' payments. These payments to date have been processed through banks operating in the PA controlled territory. However, recent Israeli anti-terror legislation which applies to the PA-controlled areas in the West Bank prohibits, inter alia, any bank transaction that funds, promotes, assists, or rewards the performance of an act of terror.


----------



## Hollie

The contradiction of Islamic terrorists citing some unspecified “international law” to lecture others is comedy gold. 










						Palestine: Serbia moving embassy to Jerusalem illegal
					

Move ‘would harm the traditional friendship between Palestine and Serbia,’ says Palestine envoy to Belgrade - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




The announcement by Serbia to move its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is contrary to international law and UN resolutions, Palestine's ambassador to Belgrade said Friday.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas stages photos of its masked terrorists handing out...masks
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie




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## Hollie

Another lovely islamo-deranged propaganda piece.

It's really just diseased.











						Hamas TV glorifies jihad, urges 'Death to Israel!'
					

'Death to Israel, the occupation, and the Zionist terror!' Palestinians tuning in were told.




					www.jpost.com
				




A one-minute filler aired on Hamas-run al-Aqsa TV on August 29, 2020, depicts a group of Palestinian terrorists in jail, watching a news report on a (fictional) suicide bombing in Tel Aviv which has claimed 19 lives. The prisoners leap to their feet and cheer, before realizing that one of their group is crying. When an inmate asks him why, he reveals that he had wanted to be part of the suicide bombing operation. His fellow inmate assures him that Allah will reward him for being jailed as a terrorist.


The video is by no means atypical of the output on Hamas-run TV. Palestinian Media Watch, which monitors Palestinian media output, watched a full day of television broadcast on August 23 2020, and found numerous examples of anti-Israel, anti-Jew and pro-terror messages.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Hollie has made a very valuable observation and then a contribution to the discussion.

*BLUF:* The Arab Palestinians continue an Internationally banded policy. They ARE crooks and criminals. The Security Council periodically Reiterates  the  "demand  for  an  immediate  cessation  of  all  acts  of  violence, *including all acts of terrorism, provocation, incitement, and destruction*." [S/RES/1515 (2003)]



Hollie said:


> Another lovely islamo-deranged propaganda piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas TV glorifies jihad, urges 'Death to Israel!'
> 
> 
> 'Death to Israel, the occupation, and the Zionist terror!' Palestinians tuning in were told.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one-minute filler aired on Hamas-run al-Aqsa TV on August 29, 2020, depicts a group of Palestinian terrorists in jail, watching a news report on a (fictional) suicide bombing in Tel Aviv which has claimed 19 lives. The prisoners leap to their feet and cheer, before realizing that one of their group is crying. When an inmate asks him why, he reveals that he had wanted to be part of the suicide bombing operation. His fellow inmate assures him that Allah will reward him for being jailed as a terrorist.


*(COMMENT)*

The original condemnation of "incitement to violence" was contained in the non-binding General Resolution of 1947 more than 7 decades ago  (A/RES/2/110) the International Convention containing the prohibition against the incitement to violence was written more than half a century ago and came into force more than → 4 decades ago.


			
				2012 International Policy Paper said:
			
		

> This ARTICLE 19 policy paper proposes a set of recommendations to be used for interpreting and implementing those international obligations which *prohibit all advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence*




			
				2012 International Policy Paper said:
			
		

> _(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”)_, as mandated by Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“CCPR”). The recommendations also apply to some of the provisions contained in Article 4 of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“CERD”).



While Israel is continually seeking positive economic, commercial, and political policies → the Arab Palestinians demonstrate their _(Government Sponsored Terrorist) _intentions by aggrandizing terrorist action and advocating for violence. They know no other way and pose a growing threat to the entire region.

*(SIDEBAR)*

You will notice that there is an element of tacit support from the Middle East Islamic Clergy.  The Islamic Leadership has made no unified effort to prohibit violence, lending credence to the idea that Islam condones such action.  _(Scary)_




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Just more exploitation of children.


----------



## Hollie

An interesting article that directly speaks to some of the mistakes by the Pals in presuming too much about their relationship with neighboring Arab nations. The Pals have presumed an open ended commitment from Arab nations only to find that neighboring Arab nations will not accept the unlimited financial, political and _social_ burden of angry, entitled “Pal’istanians”.












						Why the Persian Gulf is Ignoring Palestine
					

The Abraham Accords might be a step forward for Palestinians – if only by imparting a sense of urgency to their glacial power negotiations.




					nationalinterest.org
				




The relationship between Arab states and the Palestinians has always been tenuous. While the Palestinian cause has long been popular with the Arab public, Arab governments have much more to gain from a constructive relationship with Israel than with the Palestinian Authority. Moreover, Palestinian actions have sometimes alienated Arab states. Dr. Saud al-Kateb, former Saudi deputy minister for public diplomacy, noted in a TV interview that Palestine had angered Saudis by supporting Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait. Al-Kateb did not suggest that Arabs ignore Palestine altogether, but emphasized that, for Saudi Arabia, “Saudi Arabia is our number one cause. It is also our number two cause and our number ten cause. Then comes the Palestinian cause. The Palestinians need to fathom this fact, and cease viewing us as a faucet that streams support for them_—_support for which we are rewarded with curses.”


----------



## Hollie

Munir “_Panama Style Hat and Cigar”_ Jaghoub, believes the Fatah version of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., is not getting the respect they believe they’re entitled to. 

According to Munir, some invention he calls a “state under occupation” is actually not a banana republic.

I’m not so sure about that. The dysfunctional social and political order of many Banana Republics are mirrored in the social and political order of the invented “state of Pal’istan”. 












						Fatah to Pompeo: 'Palestine is not a banana republic'
					

The Palestinian Fatah movement has directed sharp criticism at the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for his recent call to replace the Palestinian leadership. This follows the Palestinian Authority (...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





The Palestinian Fatah movement has directed sharp criticism at the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for his recent call to replace the Palestinian leadership. This follows the Palestinian Authority (PA)’s categorical rejection of the recent normalisation agreements between Arab states and Israel, as well as its initial position against the implementation of the deal of the century.

Munir Jaghoub, head of Fatah’s Information Department in the Office of _Mobilisation and Organisation_, responded to Pompeo through a post on Facebook in which he questioned:



> Mr Pompeo, when will you realise that our people always choose their leadership and that Palestine, although it is a state under occupation, is not a banana republic?


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah Politburo Mouthpiece, Jibril Rajoub, has some interesting notions about meeting the business end of a Hellfire missile.


----------



## Picaro

Art__Allm said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Christian who follows the Zionist teachings of Jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (_Miriam_ in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and – by implication – Jesus was a bastard child.[96]
> 
> ....
> "On (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it.' But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover.
> 
> 
> Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God.
> 
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?
Click to expand...


The Talmuds are not canon, and most everyone knows the Pharisees started the rabbinical Orthodox cult long after the first Revolt was over, and only represented a small part of the Jewish peoples.

lol never mind, just noticed it's a necro-thread.


----------



## Hollie

Nature has pre-programmed successful animals with a desire to survive, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do).

Truly remarkable that an insular society can so completely undue natural instincts.











						Female suicide bomber felt “like a bride on her wedding day, preparing to go to ‎her groom” | PMW Analysis
					

Today she still recalls her thoughts and feelings while getting ready for the attack. In ‎an interview on Israeli TV last month, Al-Qudsi remembered how she felt joyous while ‎preparing to murder Israelis




					palwatch.org
				





*Female suicide bomber felt “like a bride on her wedding day, preparing to go to ‎her groom”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 5, 2020



During the Palestinian Authority’s terror war – the second Intifada – which lasted ‎almost 5 years and during which over 1,100 Israelis were murdered, terrorist Shifa Al-‎Qudsi took on a suicide mission. Planning to pose as a pregnant woman, the female ‎would-be suicide bomber was to carry 33 pounds of explosives hidden under a ‎maternity dress, and detonate it somewhere in the Israeli city of Netanya.‎

Luckily, her attack was thwarted and Al-Qudsi was arrested before she was able to ‎murder anyone.‎

Today she still recalls her thoughts and feelings while getting ready for the attack. In ‎an interview on Israeli TV last month, Al-Qudsi remembered how she felt joyous while ‎preparing to murder Israelis: “Like a bride on her wedding day, who is preparing to go to ‎her groom.”‎


----------



## Hollie

Al Jazeera has a rather slanted piece that predictably blames Arabs, the _Great Satan_™️ and others for the failures and ineptitudes of the Pals. Missing, of course, is any commentary regarding Islamic terrorist attacks perpetrated against Israel, the Hamas Charter and the refusal by both Hamas and Fatah to end their gee-had directed at Israel.

The article’s reference to a “new era” in the region is dismissive of the mutually beneficial relations between Arab nations and Israel. The article largely ignores the reduction in potential conflict, ignores the obvious benefits to the region while making the entirety of the Middle East about two competing Islamic terrorist enclaves. 










						The Palestinians need an alternative vision
					

The Palestinian people need to break free of the reality that various ‘accords’ have imposed on them.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




The signing of the deal between Israel, Bahrain and the UAE at the White House on September 15 is, admittedly, the beginning of a new era that has started in the Middle East; however, it will not bring about – with its unbalanced power relations – a just solution to the Palestinian question.


----------



## Hollie

Israel Will Occupy UAE, Bahrain; It Is after The Gulf's Billions, In Keeping With The Bible, Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion









						Palestinian Journalist Dr. Nasser Al-Laham: Israel Will Occupy UAE, Bahrain; It Is after The Gulf's Billions, In Keeping With The Bible, Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion
					

Dr. Nasser Al-Laham, a Palestinian journalist who serves as the editor-in-chief of Maan News Agency and as an analyst fo...




					www.memri.org
				




This was supposed to be kept secret, ya’ know?


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Two decades and 10,000 rockets fired at Israel, the failed Islamic terrorist border gee-had amid calls to “rip the hearts out” of Israelis, knife attacks, car ramming, roadmaps to nowhere, etc., etc., etc., the Pal terrorists are whining about a lack of  “peace partners”. 










						Two Decades After the Second Intifada, Palestine Still Has No Partner for Peace
					

Twenty years ago today, the second Palestinian intifada began in response to a provocation from Israel's Ariel Sharon after the collapse of US-sponsored peace talks. The brutal Israeli response inaugurated a war on Palestinian society that continues to this day.




					jacobinmag.com
				




Two Decades After the Second Intifada, Palestine Still Has No Partner for Peace


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Maha Yakoub*

*WHY DO MUSLIMS FAST RAMADAN? EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW! QUESTIONS ANSWERED!*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Maha Yakoub*
> 
> *WHY DO MUSLIMS FAST RAMADAN? EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW! QUESTIONS ANSWERED!*



*Ramadan. The holy Islamic time of murder and mayhem. *


----------



## Hollie

Ramadan. Another way to spell gee-had. 










						Gaza violence escalates after militants launch rocket attacks | DW | 05.05.2019
					

Gaza militants fired more than 400 rockets at Israel in a day in one of the deadliest escalations in years. Israel reported first fatalities from rocket fire since 2014, and a Hamas commander was also killed.




					www.dw.com
				





Israel also said its forces assassinated Hamas commander Hamed al-Khoudary by targeting his car in an airstrike. The 34-year-old militant leader was allegedly responsible for transferring money from Iran to terrorist organizations in Gaza.

The Islamic Jihad militant group, a Hamas ally, said Sunday that two of its members were killed in Israeli bombings.

A total of 15 Palestinians, including at least eight militants, have been killed in the current round of fighting, according to Gaza's health ministry.

The violence comes ahead of the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan, which begins Monday, and Israeli Independence Day celebrations on Wednesday.


----------



## Hollie

There’s a stealth or low level civil war being fought in the territories occupied by competing Islamic terrorist factions. Likely won’t take much for gunfire to start. 












						Palestinian Authority targets Dahlan’s supporters in West Bank
					

Supporters of the exiled Fatah leader Mohammed Dahlan appear to be taking the brunt of the Fatah leadership's anger, with rounds of political arrests.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Oct 5, 2020
RAMALLAH, West Bank — Palestinian security services in the West Bank have been clamping down in recent days on supporters of the so-called Democratic Reform Current led by dismissed Fatah leader Mohammad Dahlan, who is based in the United Arab Emirates.


Read more: Palestinian Authority targets Dahlan’s supporters in West Bank


----------



## Hollie

These folks are conspiracy theory addled. 











						Official PA Daily:‎ ‎Trump's Coronavirus may be fabrication to gain sympathy and avoid debating Biden | PMW Analysis
					

Saeb Erekat: I’m certain that if [Joe] Biden or any other president rises [to ‎power], the first thing that person will do is to declare that [Trump’s] deal of ‎the century is off the table”‎




					palwatch.org
				





*Official PA Daily:‎ ‎Trump's Coronavirus may be fabrication to gain sympathy and avoid debating Biden*
Itamar Marcus  | Oct 4, 2020

*Saeb Erekat: I’m certain that if [Joe] Biden or any other president rises [to ‎power], the first thing that person will do is to declare that [Trump’s] deal of ‎the century is off the table”‎*
Mahmoud Abbas’ official PA daily ran a front page editorial with the headline “Trump's ‎Corona - False Claims and expectations.” The editorial says that if the claim is true that ‎Trump is deceiving the American people, it is because Trump wants to gain sympathy ‎of the American voters and to avoid future debates with Democratic challenger Joe ‎Biden. The fact that Trump’s infection was announced shortly after his debate with ‎Biden “which Trump turned into the worst debate in history” makes it logical that Trump ‎wants to avoid future debates by feigning illness, says the PA daily.‎

The PA editorial adds that if Trump is sick, possibly the illness will cause him to “re-‎examine the erroneous and aggressive policies towards humanity… while he fuels ‎racist extremist ideas, and sides with falsehood against truth.”‎
After insulting the US president repeatedly, the editorial ends on a more conciliatory ‎note, adding:


> “whether or not the U.S. president has caught Corona virus, we will not ‎analyze this news based on wishful thinking. Corona virus is a disease that we do not ‎wish for the creatures of Allah wherever they are, and we pray for the speedy recovery ‎of all those infected‏.‏‎”‎
> [_Al-Hayat al-Jadida_, Oct. 4, 2020]‎


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

I, much like our friend "Hollie" find it interesting that 

*BLUF:  *Any solution to the Israeli vs Palestinian Conflict must, necessarily, be developed by them, not imposed upon them.




Hollie said:


> *Saeb Erekat: I’m certain that if [Joe] Biden or any other president rises [to ‎power], the first thing that person will do is to declare that [Trump’s] deal of ‎the century is off the table”‎*


*(COMMENT)*

What The President recommends as a solution or what a Presidential Candidate recommends should have little or no impact at all on what is accepted as a solution.  The solution must be based on the benefits and compromises the two parties to the conflict are willing to accept and live with.  The solution cannot be based on a politically inspired set of arrangements embossed upon them from the orbiting external forces.

It may be the case, no matter how alien it sounds to the outside observer, that the normal relationship_ (natural order) _between the two parties to the conflict → is → "conflict;" no matter how absurd it may sound.  The Arab Palestinians take a very active role in passing, from generation to generation, hatred and ingrained tendencies for violence. 

_NOTATION:_
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
_The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have established policies and practices of promoting violence and similar policies and practices of enforcing intellectuals, media people, orators, educators, and teachers, to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, exerting influence in all sectors of society and throughout the world, using financial and media control, as well as the manipulation of the Rule of Law that will have an adverse impact on the Israelis.  This is passed-down from generation to generation. The HoAP find it necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and mass-media outlets, and the youth organizations of the Islamic movements and factions, are induced to take part in propaganda operations that encourage violence and hatred.   This included forcing UN Organization to make basic changes be made in the school curriculum that "cleanse it of the traces" of any aspect that encourages peace or suggests that violence by the Arab Palestinians is wrong._




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The good “doctor” has some sage advise for those sharia’ists who might be thinking about congratulating Israelis and Jews on Rosh Hashanah.

That will not score points with Allah.



_Dr. Muhammad Suleiman Al-Farra, the Vice Dean of the South Branch of the Islamic University of Gaza, said in a September 26, 2020 interview on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas/Gaza) that Arabs who have been congratulating Israelis and Jews on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year, are "rushing headlong into heresy." He said that doing this is a violation of shari'a law, and that people who consider Israel to be a brotherly country are going against Allah's commands against befriending Jews or Christians._


----------



## Hollie

Censorship is always a difficult subject to resolve as there are many competing interests and ultimately, who decides what is “hate speech”.  Explicit promotion by Fatah of actions intending to cause injury or death to Israelis is where Facebook has drawn the line. 













						PMW welcomes Facebook’s limiting Fatah's page | PMW Analysis
					

Following PMW ‎campaigns against Fatah’s page Facebook finally took steps against Fatah. ‎




					palwatch.org
				




*PMW welcomes Facebook’s limiting Fatah's page*

Itamar Marcus & Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 6, 2020

After extensive PMW correspondence with Facebook about Fatah’s promotion of terror ‎and glorification of violence on its official Facebook page, and following PMW ‎campaigns against Fatah’s page and Facebook itself that informed and warned ‎Facebook that they were supplying a platform for Fatah’s terror promotion, hate ‎speech, and Antisemitism, Facebook finally took steps against Fatah. ‎

In June Fatah's Facebook page was temporarily closed following three warnings by ‎Facebook. This week Facebook took another significant step by canceling Fatah’s ‎option to boost posts - i.e., posts that are promoted as ads.‎

The image above posted by Fatah shows a computer screen with Facebook open on it ‎and a red “no” symbol over the page. Gold coins appear next to the screen.‎



> *Posted text: *“As part of an ongoing campaign against Palestinian content‎
> Facebook is stopping all the boosted posts of the official Fatah Facebook page”‎
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Sept. 26, 2020]‎


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror payments included NIS 187,000 for the attack that claimed the lives of three-month-old Chaya Zisel Braun and Karen Yemima Mosquera and wounded seven others.









						Israel Seizes Hamas, PA Funds Transferred to Terrorists’ Families in Israel | United with Israel
					

Terror payments included NIS 187,000 for the attack that claimed the lives of 3-month-old Chaya Zisel Braun and Karen Yemima Mosquera and wounded 7 others.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I’m curious as to why there’s some hoo-ha about a trial where the guilty parties to be named at a future date are denied access to lawyers.

Islamic totalitarian societies are not usually associated with western standards of jurisprudence. 










						Saudi trial resumes for Palestinian Hamas members detained by kingdom
					

At least 68 Palestinians - including veteran Hamas middleman Mohammed al-Khoudary - are standing trial on unknown charges with no access to lawyers, right group says




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




At least 68 Palestinians - including veteran Hamas middleman Mohammed al-Khoudary - are standing trial on unknown charges with no access to lawyers, right group says


----------



## Hollie

Some strong criticism from the KSA directed at the Pals. 










						Prominent Saudi slams Palestinian's criticism of UAE-Israel deal
					

"The Palestinian cause is a just cause but its advocates are failures, and the Israeli cause is unjust but its advocates have proven to be successful," Prince Bandar said.




					www.nbcnews.com
				





RIYADH — Saudi Arabia's former intelligence chief and ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdulaziz, slammed the Palestinian leadership for criticizing the decision of some Gulf states to normalize ties with Israel.

In an interview with Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television aired on Monday, the prince labelled the Palestinian authorities' criticism a "transgression" and "reprehensible discourse."


----------



## Hollie

The former Saudi Ambassador to the U.S. had a “take no prisoners” approach to the Pals and their denigration of Gulf Arabs.






_Former Saudi Ambassador to the U.S. Prince Bandar Bin Sultan Al-Saud chastised the Palestinian leadership for its conduct following Israel's peace and normalization agreements with the UAE and Bahrain. His comments were made in an interview with Al-Arabiya Network (Dubai/Saudi Arabia) on October 5, 2020. Prince Bandar said that the Palestinian leaders had "the audacity to say despicable things" about the Gulf countries and their leaders. He added that while the Palestinian cause is just, the Palestinian leaders have failed at garnering support for this cause. 

Prince Bandar further said that the Palestinian leaders have historically placed their bets on the losing party - from Haj Amin Al-Husseini's support for the Nazis during WWII to siding with Saddam Hussein in his occupation of Kuwait in 1990 and subsequently, his missile attacks against Saudi Arabia. He said that the Palestinians would repeatedly come to Saudi Arabia for financial aid and advice, and then they would take the aid and ignore the advice._


----------



## Hollie

It is refreshing to read an honest assessment of the Islamic terrorist inspired gee-had groups on campuses here in the _Great Satan_™️











						Follow the Money or Follow the Lies: Students for Justice in Palestine at Duke
					

Perkins Library at Duke University in Durham, NC. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. Many proponents of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Many proponents of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) movement conflate the struggle for racial justice in the United States and the war against Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. Duke University’s Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) chapter, unsurprisingly, is no exception; they hide behind their social media accounts to promote outright falsehoods, attempting to paint anti-Zionist activism as a virtuous fight against colonialism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It is refreshing to read an honest assessment of the Islamic terrorist inspired gee-had groups on campuses here in the _Great Satan_™️
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the Money or Follow the Lies: Students for Justice in Palestine at Duke
> 
> 
> Perkins Library at Duke University in Durham, NC. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. Many proponents of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many proponents of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) movement conflate the struggle for racial justice in the United States and the war against Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. Duke University’s Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) chapter, unsurprisingly, is no exception; they hide behind their social media accounts to promote outright falsehoods, attempting to paint anti-Zionist activism as a virtuous fight against colonialism.


“Zionism is the Jewish national movement of self-determination in the land of Israel — the historical birthplace and biblical homeland of the Jewish people.”​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Finally, after doing everything the PA has demanded of them for years, the EU has had enough.

From Axios:



> The EU, France, Germany, the U.K. and Norway made clear that they consider annexation to now be off the table, and thus the Palestinians should accept the $750 million in revenues now held by the Israeli Ministry of Finance.
> 
> After lower-level pressure on the Palestinians didn’t bear fruit, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called Abbas last Wednesday.
> 
> He repeated the same message in the call, European diplomats say: Until the Palestinians resume the acceptance of tax revenues from Israel, the EU will not provide new loans or other financial assistance.
> 
> Borrell also urged Abbas to relaunch security and civilian coordination with Israel, but Abbas was noncommittal, the diplomats say.
> 
> Some Palestinian officials around Abbas think his decision to suspend all ties with Israel and the U.S. is self-defeating.
> 
> But Abbas has so far fended off that pressure. He's betting that Joe Biden will win in November and bring with him a much different set of policies toward the Israeli-Palestinian issue.



This is another game changer. After the Arab world has shown willingness to criticize the Palestinian leadership publicly, the EU is starting to move in the same direction. 

(full article online)









						Europe, finally, tells Palestinians that enough's enough
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Finally, after doing everything the PA has demanded of them for years, the EU has had enough.
> 
> From Axios:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The EU, France, Germany, the U.K. and Norway made clear that they consider annexation to now be off the table, and thus the Palestinians should accept the $750 million in revenues now held by the Israeli Ministry of Finance.
> 
> After lower-level pressure on the Palestinians didn’t bear fruit, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called Abbas last Wednesday.
> 
> He repeated the same message in the call, European diplomats say: Until the Palestinians resume the acceptance of tax revenues from Israel, the EU will not provide new loans or other financial assistance.
> 
> Borrell also urged Abbas to relaunch security and civilian coordination with Israel, but Abbas was noncommittal, the diplomats say.
> 
> Some Palestinian officials around Abbas think his decision to suspend all ties with Israel and the U.S. is self-defeating.
> 
> But Abbas has so far fended off that pressure. He's betting that Joe Biden will win in November and bring with him a much different set of policies toward the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is another game changer. After the Arab world has shown willingness to criticize the Palestinian leadership publicly, the EU is starting to move in the same direction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe, finally, tells Palestinians that enough's enough
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> willingness to criticize the Palestinian leadership publicly,


Why not? The Palestinians have been publicly criticizing their leadership for decades.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, after doing everything the PA has demanded of them for years, the EU has had enough.
> 
> From Axios:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The EU, France, Germany, the U.K. and Norway made clear that they consider annexation to now be off the table, and thus the Palestinians should accept the $750 million in revenues now held by the Israeli Ministry of Finance.
> 
> After lower-level pressure on the Palestinians didn’t bear fruit, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called Abbas last Wednesday.
> 
> He repeated the same message in the call, European diplomats say: Until the Palestinians resume the acceptance of tax revenues from Israel, the EU will not provide new loans or other financial assistance.
> 
> Borrell also urged Abbas to relaunch security and civilian coordination with Israel, but Abbas was noncommittal, the diplomats say.
> 
> Some Palestinian officials around Abbas think his decision to suspend all ties with Israel and the U.S. is self-defeating.
> 
> But Abbas has so far fended off that pressure. He's betting that Joe Biden will win in November and bring with him a much different set of policies toward the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is another game changer. After the Arab world has shown willingness to criticize the Palestinian leadership publicly, the EU is starting to move in the same direction.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe, finally, tells Palestinians that enough's enough
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> willingness to criticize the Palestinian leadership publicly,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why not? The Palestinians have been publicly criticizing their leadership for decades.
Click to expand...

Hamas tends to take a dim view of criticism from those who elected them into office. Islamic terrorist dictators are like that.


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud "_My Middle Name is International Law_" Abbas is approaching panic mode as his Arab sources of welfare money are drying up. Islamic terrorists appealing to some standard of "international Law'' is a total hoot.  

He's built an elaborate hoax of invented victimhood, wherein he can seethe, whine and make absurd appeals to the _Arab Street_ for his status of the "forever oppressed Arab-Moslem" in the endeavor of securing sympathy for his failures and ineptitudes.










						Palestine's Abbas asks UN for international Mideast conference next year as Arab support dwindles - SUCH TV
					

Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas appealed on Friday to the United Nations to arrange an international conference on the peace process, in the wake of Gulf Arab recognition of Israel.




					www.suchtv.pk
				




In an address to the UN General Assembly, Abbas asked Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to convene the meeting “early next year” and bring in “all relevant parties".

“The conference should have full authority to launch a genuine peace process based on international law,” Abbas told the virtual General Assembly in a recorded address.


----------



## Hollie

Dubai, a Gulf Arab state, is not letting Pali whining interrupt their embrace of relations with Israel.

A kosher restaurant near Burj Khalifa skyscraper. Watch out for a flood in the desert... Of Pali crocodile tears.











						The Gulf Arabs Weary of Protesting for Palestine
					

The United Arab Emirates and Bahrain’s drive for normal ties with Israel suggests a shifting mood across the region.




					www.wsj.com
				




Last month, the United Arab Emirates, followed by Bahrain, broke a longstanding taboo by not just signing a diplomatic agreement with Israel but also launching a full-throttled normalization of relations—moves that the Palestinian Authority’s leadership has decried as a historic betrayal. This week, the Israeli and Emirati foreign ministers visited the Holocaust memorial in Berlin together. A succession of Israeli business and academic delegations have visited Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Dubai’s main soccer club, al-Nasr, has already signed up an Israeli midfielder. A kosher restaurant opened this month near Dubai’s iconic Burj Khalifa skyscraper, the world’s tallest building.


----------



## Hollie

It’s truly difficult to believe the Pals don’t understand that bending and scraping in adulation before the Shia Iranian Mullocrats is the greatest affront to Sunni / Salafi Islamism. 











						The Gulf Arabs Weary of Protesting for Palestine
					

The United Arab Emirates and Bahrain’s drive for normal ties with Israel suggests a shifting mood across the region.




					www.wsj.com
				





The Hamas movement on Thursday rejected the statements of a Saudi official in which he attacked Palestinian leaders, describing them as “ungrateful”.

This came in a brief statement of the Hamas leader Sami Abu Zuhri on Twitter, in response to the remarks made by former Secretary of the Saudi National Security Council Bandar Bin Sultan, during an interview with _Al-Arabiya_ on Wednesday evening.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the EU is losing patience with the Pals manufacturing their own crises and demanding others provide the welfare bail out.










						EU gives Palestinians ultimatum by linking aid to financial ties with Israel
					

The Palestinians cut off ties over Netanyahu's annexation pledge.




					www.axios.com
				





European Union leaders have told the Palestinian Authority they will refuse to provide any additional financial aid as long as the Palestinians refuse to accept tax revenues collected by Israel, European diplomats and Israeli officials tell me.

Why it matters: The unprecedented ultimatum is another indication that frustration with leaders in Ramallah is growing, even among staunch supporters of the Palestinians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

I think our friend "Hollie" is more than correct in her assessment.

*BLUF*:  I am just hoping that the indicators _(political and economic)_ and sentiments as expressed by Prince Bandar _(seeming growing in the Gulf States)_ are more than a flash in the pan _(a temporary apparition)_.



Hollie said:


> It’s truly difficult to believe the Pals don’t understand that bending and scraping in adulation before the Shia Iranian Mullocrats is the greatest affront to Sunni / Salafi Islamism.
> 
> The Hamas movement on Thursday rejected the statements of a Saudi official in which he attacked Palestinian leaders, describing them as “ungrateful”.
> 
> This came in a brief statement of the Hamas leader Sami Abu Zuhri on Twitter, in response to the remarks made by former Secretary of the Saudi National Security Council Bandar Bin Sultan, during an interview with _Al-Arabiya_ on Wednesday evening.


*(COMMENT)*

The patience of the Gulf Nations with the never-ending Palestinian-Israeli dispute does seem to be reaching a critical stage in the relationship between the Arab Palestine State and the membership of the Arab League Nations (ALNs) of the Arabian Sea and the Gulf Coast Consortia (GCC).  Each member of the ALN and GCC have their own concerns and their own independent political views.  They are not bound by a single political promise and lead around like a chain gang.  Make no mistake, there is still a great deal of solidarity with the Arab Palestinians as a people, a nation, and a cause; but, a schism is beginning to grow between the leaders of the ALN and the GCC with that of the leadership in Gaza and Ramallah.

_NOTATION:_
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
_✦  _How Gulf Arab “Exasperation” with Endless Conflict Led to UAE-Israel Normalization 
_✦  __Saudi royal criticises Palestinians for accusing Gulf states of betrayal __ 
Attack seen as hardening of Riyadh’s position and adds to speculation about recognition of Israel
✦ __ What Arab TV Says About Evolving Attitudes Toward Israel  __ 
In drama and comedy, the trend is toward sympathetic and humanizing portrayals of Jews._



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

I'm afraid the Pal Arabs are, as usual, playing the victim card.

It's really debilitating to think of the billions of dollars showered on the Pals and that money has provided vanishingly small return on the investment, unless off course, you happen to be among the few serial Pal thieves who have amassed fortunes in stolen welfare dollars.

Placing blame on the international community for the failures of the Pals to cobble together a functioning society falls squarely on them.  That the Pals cannot meet the standards of a functioning state as history grinds on past 72 years since the establishment of Israel is nothing more than tacit admission that the Pals are incapable of ever being self-sufficient.








__





						Foreign Minister says critical situation in Palestine reflects serious shortcomings of the international system
					






					english.wafa.ps
				




RAMALLAH, Friday, October 09, 2020 (WAFA) – Minister of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates Riyad al-Maliki said today that the critical situation in occupied Palestine, including East Jerusalem, reflects the serious shortcomings of the international system, whereby the international community only condemns rather than takes action to prevent the Israeli violations of the Palestinian human rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think our friend "Hollie" is more than correct in her assessment.
> 
> *BLUF*:  I am just hoping that the indicators _(political and economic)_ and sentiments as expressed by Prince Bandar _(seeming growing in the Gulf States)_ are more than a flash in the pan _(a temporary apparition)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s truly difficult to believe the Pals don’t understand that bending and scraping in adulation before the Shia Iranian Mullocrats is the greatest affront to Sunni / Salafi Islamism.
> 
> The Hamas movement on Thursday rejected the statements of a Saudi official in which he attacked Palestinian leaders, describing them as “ungrateful”.
> 
> This came in a brief statement of the Hamas leader Sami Abu Zuhri on Twitter, in response to the remarks made by former Secretary of the Saudi National Security Council Bandar Bin Sultan, during an interview with _Al-Arabiya_ on Wednesday evening.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The patience of the Gulf Nations with the never-ending Palestinian-Israeli dispute does seem to be reaching a critical stage in the relationship between the Arab Palestine State and the membership of the Arab League Nations (ALNs) of the Arabian Sea and the Gulf Coast Consortia (GCC).  Each member of the ALN and GCC have their own concerns and their own independent political views.  They are not bound by a single political promise and lead around like a chain gang.  Make no mistake, there is still a great deal of solidarity with the Arab Palestinians as a people, a nation, and a cause; but, a schism is beginning to grow between the leaders of the ALN and the GCC with that of the leadership in Gaza and Ramallah.
> 
> _NOTATION:_
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
> _✦  _How Gulf Arab “Exasperation” with Endless Conflict Led to UAE-Israel Normalization
> _✦  __Saudi royal criticises Palestinians for accusing Gulf states of betrayal __
> Attack seen as hardening of Riyadh’s position and adds to speculation about recognition of Israel
> ✦ __ What Arab TV Says About Evolving Attitudes Toward Israel  __
> In drama and comedy, the trend is toward sympathetic and humanizing portrayals of Jews._
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is (too) common around the world that governments and their people are not on the same page.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Do they want peace?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Good morning from Islamic terrorist occupied Gaza'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Good morning from Islamic terrorist occupied Gaza'istan


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from Islamic terrorist occupied Gaza'istan
Click to expand...


Can I get an Allahu akbar brothas’ and sistas’.


----------



## Sixties Fan

How much is the annual olive oil yield in the West Bank? According to UN-OCHA, it is between $110 and $120 million a year. 

Articles try to say how critical the olive oil business is the the Palestinian economy, with figures tossed around that it is the main income for 100,000 Palestinian families. Simple math shows that this is impossible because that would mean each family only has an annual income of $1200, when theaverage Palestinian family income is over $20,000. Clearly the olive oil industry is not nearly as large as we are told.

But there is another comparison that is useful. The annual budget in the Palestinian Authority to pay prisoners, "marytrs" and their families was $315 million in 2016 - meaning that the Palestinian Authority gives nearly triple the annual olive oil revenues to terrorists and their families every year.

(full article online)









						"Pay for Slay" pays triple the total amount of olive oil revenue for Palestinians
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from Islamic terrorist occupied Gaza'istan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I get an Allahu akbar brothas’ and sistas’.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. Palestinians can only be considered militants while actively engaged in armed conflict. As unarmed protesters, they are unarmed protesters. Political affiliation is irrelevant.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Two references and definitions you need to keep in mind:











P F Tinmore said:


> It doesn't matter. Palestinians can only be considered militants while actively engaged in armed conflict. As unarmed protesters, they are unarmed protesters. Political affiliation is irrelevant.


*(COMMENT)*

You will note, closely, that neither reference mentions being "armed."  It is also important to remember that prosecution of the acts in violation of Article 43, Hague Regulation, is actually taken under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention:




All that matters is the damage or injury that is attempted or inflected _(the criminal intent)_.  If _(as an example) _Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, and former juvenile delinquent, throws a rock at a Police Officer or Soldier performing Article 43 Duties, it is assumed that the intent was to do harm.

*(OBSERVATION)*

Like I've said before, people like yourself make-up these distinctions and definitions that are often wrong and misleading; a form of spreading false or inaccurate information deliberately intended to deceive readers of the discussion.  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Two references and definitions you need to keep in mind:
> 
> View attachment 400882
> View attachment 400883​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Palestinians can only be considered militants while actively engaged in armed conflict. As unarmed protesters, they are unarmed protesters. Political affiliation is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will note, closely, that neither reference mentions being "armed."  It is also important to remember that prosecution of the acts in violation of Article 43, Hague Regulation, is actually taken under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention:
> 
> View attachment 400891​
> All that matters is the damage or injury that is attempted or inflected _(the criminal intent)_.  If _(as an example) _Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, and former juvenile delinquent, throws a rock at a Police Officer or Soldier performing Article 43 Duties, it is assumed that the intent was to do harm.
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Like I've said before, people like yourself make-up these distinctions and definitions that are often wrong and misleading; a form of spreading false or inaccurate information deliberately intended to deceive readers of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


View attachment 400882
The problem with Israel is that it does not even pretend to be a legitimate occupying power. "Public order and safety" does not fit into its settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Two references and definitions you need to keep in mind:
> 
> View attachment 400882
> View attachment 400883​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Palestinians can only be considered militants while actively engaged in armed conflict. As unarmed protesters, they are unarmed protesters. Political affiliation is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will note, closely, that neither reference mentions being "armed."  It is also important to remember that prosecution of the acts in violation of Article 43, Hague Regulation, is actually taken under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention:
> 
> View attachment 400891​
> All that matters is the damage or injury that is attempted or inflected _(the criminal intent)_.  If _(as an example) _Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, and former juvenile delinquent, throws a rock at a Police Officer or Soldier performing Article 43 Duties, it is assumed that the intent was to do harm.
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Like I've said before, people like yourself make-up these distinctions and definitions that are often wrong and misleading; a form of spreading false or inaccurate information deliberately intended to deceive readers of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 400882
> The problem with Israel is that it does not even pretend to be a legitimate occupying power. "Public order and safety" does not fit into its settler colonial project.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the problem with your comment is that you have not even pretended to offer a defendable argument. 

You have never identified what sovereign “Pal’istanian” lands that Israel is occupying. Lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems you identify as Palestinians was controlled by the Turks who, as you may not be aware, released all rights and title to the Mandate.

Indeed, the Arabs-Moslems you as label as “Palestinians” never had sovereign control or ownership of the land area.


----------



## Hollie

In this episode of “Mr. Mufti says”, we read about the obligations of Moslems under sharia.

Endearing messages of Jew hating  from Pal Muftis are too numerous to mention. These are pious Moslem leaders who are just following the doctrinal elements of their beliefs. Any reasonable person can listen to their rantings and come to conclusions about their interpretation of Islamic ideology. From the nearly daily occurrences of Islamic terrorism we can derive patterns of behavior. The sheiks, muftis, clerics, mosque leaders who spread their message of hate for Jews and the infidel derive their hate from _somewhere_. Where do you think that

*PA Mufti: Sharia’h obligates every Muslim to wage Jihad against what the PA calls “the ‎thieving Jews” ‎*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 12, 2020



Referring to previous Islamic religious rulings that “obligate” Muslims to “fight ‎against the thieving Jews,” a host on official PA TV interviewed the PA Grand ‎Mufti on the aspects of Sharia’h law in connection with the UAE and ‎Bahrain’s recent peace agreements with Israel.‎

The PA Mufti stressed that “if an inch of the Muslims’ lands is stolen, Jihad ‎becomes a personal religious commandment for everyone.” The PA defines ‎all of the State of Israel as stolen Islamic land – a _waqf_ – which is an ‎inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law. Therefore, according to the ‎PA Mufti, Shari’ah law prohibits Palestinians from recognizing Israel in any borders and commands that every Muslim has a personal duty to ‎wage war against Israel until the “Muslim” land is freed. He further stated that the UAE and Bahrain are ‎‎“twisting” these religious rulings, noting that this is “forbidden” and that they will ‎have to answer to Allah for this:‎




Mr. Mufti rattles on with more but is reciting the Koranic obligation regarding _waqf_.















Think _Peace Partners™️_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Two references and definitions you need to keep in mind:
> 
> View attachment 400882
> View attachment 400883​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Palestinians can only be considered militants while actively engaged in armed conflict. As unarmed protesters, they are unarmed protesters. Political affiliation is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will note, closely, that neither reference mentions being "armed."  It is also important to remember that prosecution of the acts in violation of Article 43, Hague Regulation, is actually taken under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention:
> 
> View attachment 400891​
> All that matters is the damage or injury that is attempted or inflected _(the criminal intent)_.  If _(as an example) _Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, and former juvenile delinquent, throws a rock at a Police Officer or Soldier performing Article 43 Duties, it is assumed that the intent was to do harm.
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Like I've said before, people like yourself make-up these distinctions and definitions that are often wrong and misleading; a form of spreading false or inaccurate information deliberately intended to deceive readers of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 400882
> The problem with Israel is that it does not even pretend to be a legitimate occupying power. "Public order and safety" does not fit into its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the problem with your comment is that you have not even pretended to offer a defendable argument.
> 
> You have never identified what sovereign “Pal’istanian” lands that Israel is occupying. Lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems you identify as Palestinians was controlled by the Turks who, as you may not be aware, released all rights and title to the Mandate.
> 
> Indeed, the Arabs-Moslems you as label as “Palestinians” never had sovereign control or ownership of the land area.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems you identify as Palestinians was controlled by the Turks who, as you may not be aware, released all rights and title to the Mandate.


The Treaty of Lausanne says different.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The Treaty Relinquished it to the Allied Powers.



Hollie said:


> Lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems you identify as Palestinians was controlled by the Turks who, as you may not be aware, released all rights and title to the Mandate.





P F Tinmore said:


> The Treaty of Lausanne says different.


*(COMMENT)*

Hollie was much closer than you. So much closer that I will not quibble over her choice of words.  But you are just chalk full of intentionally misleading statements.

Turkey was the successor state to the Ottoman Empire, which relinquished the rights and title to the Allied Powers. The successor state to Turkey, for all intent and purposes, had not yet been designated. The Mandate formed the caretaker government.

​


			
				Article 16 Treaty of Lausanne said:
			
		

> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​​The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​​


​
The Treaty of Lausanne was the renegotiated terms of the Treaty of Sèvres (1920); which was never ratified by the Turkish Republic.  The treaty itself does not award the Aarab inhabitants of the territory to which the Mandate Applied, anything at all _(no promises)_. The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees. And in fact, that obligation was fulfilled when the Arab League took effective control over the West Bank and Gaza Strip. All the Arab Palestinians were, at one time, citizens of the Hashemite Kingdom; well before they came under the effective control of Israel.

All the Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, at one time, were under the effective control of the Egyptian Government; well before they came under the effective control of Israel.

The reason that the Arab Palestinians keep the controversy of the Treaty of Lausanne alive, is because they think there is some unfulfilled promise or obligation in the treaty that was made to the territorial inhabitance.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Two references and definitions you need to keep in mind:
> 
> View attachment 400882
> View attachment 400883​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Palestinians can only be considered militants while actively engaged in armed conflict. As unarmed protesters, they are unarmed protesters. Political affiliation is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will note, closely, that neither reference mentions being "armed."  It is also important to remember that prosecution of the acts in violation of Article 43, Hague Regulation, is actually taken under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention:
> 
> View attachment 400891​
> All that matters is the damage or injury that is attempted or inflected _(the criminal intent)_.  If _(as an example) _Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, and former juvenile delinquent, throws a rock at a Police Officer or Soldier performing Article 43 Duties, it is assumed that the intent was to do harm.
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Like I've said before, people like yourself make-up these distinctions and definitions that are often wrong and misleading; a form of spreading false or inaccurate information deliberately intended to deceive readers of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> View attachment 400882
> The problem with Israel is that it does not even pretend to be a legitimate occupying power. "Public order and safety" does not fit into its settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the problem with your comment is that you have not even pretended to offer a defendable argument.
> 
> You have never identified what sovereign “Pal’istanian” lands that Israel is occupying. Lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems you identify as Palestinians was controlled by the Turks who, as you may not be aware, released all rights and title to the Mandate.
> 
> Indeed, the Arabs-Moslems you as label as “Palestinians” never had sovereign control or ownership of the land area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lands occupied by the Arabs-Moslems you identify as Palestinians was controlled by the Turks who, as you may not be aware, released all rights and title to the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne says different.
Click to expand...


No. It doesn’t.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.


So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?

You don't make any sense.


----------



## Ropey

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...


Virtual citizenship from a virtual state... both that are unstable by definition.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...

Nobody gave nationality and citizenship to the Arabs-Moslems occupying the former Turkish caliphate.

You don't make any sense.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.



RoccoR said:


> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.





P F Tinmore said:


> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.


*(COMMENT)*



			
				UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
			
		

> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
> 
> "After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.
> 
> *SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948



In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:



			
				Palestine Order in Council said:
			
		

> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922


You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Pal-Arab terrorism and child abuse is in part the responsibility of the west as the rewards of the UNRWA welfare fraud funds a part of that terrorism.  



*When funding terror is more important than rehabilitating child terrorists ‎*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Oct 14, 2020

*EU funding and the priorities of Palestinian NGOs*









						When funding terror is more important than rehabilitating child terrorists ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

EU funding and the priorities of Palestinian NGOs




					palwatch.org
				




While the European Union continues its efforts to support Palestinian society, ‎for at least one Palestinian Non-Governmental Organization (NGO), it would ‎appear that the freedom to funnel EU funds‏ ‏to EU designated terror ‎organizations is more important than rehabilitating Palestinian child terrorists. ‎

As Palestinian Media Watch has conclusively shown, the Palestinian Authority ‎indoctrinates Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel and to seek Israel's ‎destruction; brainwashes Palestinian children to admire murderers; and ‎weaponizes Palestinian children while promoting their participation in violence. ‎And the brainwashing and indoctrination has proved successful. Thousands of ‎Palestinian children and teens have adopted these views taking an active part ‎in terror, including scores who have attacked Israeli citizens. Some of the ‎brainwashed teens have murdered Israeli civilians.‎


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
Click to expand...

Buffoonish.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
Click to expand...


That's actually what 'Palestine' means, by definition.

Who needs that? 

They want Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pal-Arab terrorism and child abuse is in part the responsibility of the west as the rewards of the UNRWA welfare fraud funds a part of that terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> *When funding terror is more important than rehabilitating child terrorists ‎*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Oct 14, 2020
> 
> *EU funding and the priorities of Palestinian NGOs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When funding terror is more important than rehabilitating child terrorists ‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> EU funding and the priorities of Palestinian NGOs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the European Union continues its efforts to support Palestinian society, ‎for at least one Palestinian Non-Governmental Organization (NGO), it would ‎appear that the freedom to funnel EU funds‏ ‏to EU designated terror ‎organizations is more important than rehabilitating Palestinian child terrorists. ‎
> 
> As Palestinian Media Watch has conclusively shown, the Palestinian Authority ‎indoctrinates Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel and to seek Israel's ‎destruction; brainwashes Palestinian children to admire murderers; and ‎weaponizes Palestinian children while promoting their participation in violence. ‎And the brainwashing and indoctrination has proved successful. Thousands of ‎Palestinian children and teens have adopted these views taking an active part ‎in terror, including scores who have attacked Israeli citizens. Some of the ‎brainwashed teens have murdered Israeli civilians.‎


Palestinian Media Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization, i.e. a load of hooey.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buffoonish.
Click to expand...

Palestine was occupied enemy territory from 1917 to 1924.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buffoonish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was occupied enemy territory from 1917 to 1924.
Click to expand...


And what was it before?

Independent, ever?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
Click to expand...


*The Palestine Order in Council*_ was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory._

The 1800s? Earlier?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buffoonish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was occupied enemy territory from 1917 to 1924.
Click to expand...

Buffoonish.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pal-Arab terrorism and child abuse is in part the responsibility of the west as the rewards of the UNRWA welfare fraud funds a part of that terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> *When funding terror is more important than rehabilitating child terrorists ‎*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Oct 14, 2020
> 
> *EU funding and the priorities of Palestinian NGOs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When funding terror is more important than rehabilitating child terrorists ‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> EU funding and the priorities of Palestinian NGOs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the European Union continues its efforts to support Palestinian society, ‎for at least one Palestinian Non-Governmental Organization (NGO), it would ‎appear that the freedom to funnel EU funds‏ ‏to EU designated terror ‎organizations is more important than rehabilitating Palestinian child terrorists. ‎
> 
> As Palestinian Media Watch has conclusively shown, the Palestinian Authority ‎indoctrinates Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel and to seek Israel's ‎destruction; brainwashes Palestinian children to admire murderers; and ‎weaponizes Palestinian children while promoting their participation in violence. ‎And the brainwashing and indoctrination has proved successful. Thousands of ‎Palestinian children and teens have adopted these views taking an active part ‎in terror, including scores who have attacked Israeli citizens. Some of the ‎brainwashed teens have murdered Israeli civilians.‎
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization, i.e. a load of hooey.
Click to expand...


I understand your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended but you offered nothing to refute the article.

Perhaps you can find a YouTube video?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Whether or no it makes any sense to you is → "irrelevant." That is what they did. Your opinion did not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does place an obligation upon the Mandatories concerned to avoid the creation of wholesale stateless people and/or refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they give the Palestinians nationality and citizenship on a place that is not a state?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UK MEMORANDUM Meaning of Termanition of Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state*.  Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.  The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​*SOURCE:* A/AC.21/UK/42   25 February 1948​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> In explaining what the status would be after the termination of the Mandate, the Mandatory explained by comparison, what the status was before the termination.  And as you know, in 1922, the Mandatory made it clear that:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> *SOURCE:* WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, 10 August 1922​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​You have to learn how to tie all the logic together before you can decide who is the screwball.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.
Click to expand...

The land area called Palestine was never as you describe. Perhaps you've fallen down and bumped your head again?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *Wow, you have a hard time getting even the simplest of facts correct.  "Such was the economic condition of the country, and such was the political atmosphere, when on July 1st, 1920, by order of His Majesty's Government a Civil Administration was established in Palestine.*" (SOURCE:  **AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921**.)
*


P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestine Order in Council* was back when Palestine was still occupied enemy territory.





P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has occupied enemy territory from 1917 to 1924.


*(COMMENT)*

Totally separate from the activities of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA), the occupied territories at the  Caucasian Northern Front _[Russian-Ottoman Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA)]_ in which the Allied Powers promised Russia, in exchange for their agreement on the Sykes-Picot Arrangement and the future of territorial gains of France and Britain in the Middle East, along the southern FEBA, the Russians were to establish an Administration (1915-1917) over "the Regions of  Erzurum, Trabzon, Van, and  Bitlis up to a definite point on the coast of the Black Sea on a time table set by them.  The Armistice of Mudros of 30 October 1918, marked the end of the conflict beginning at noon the next day, at which time the OETA officially activated.  The OETA was dissolved on 1 July 1920, as agreed by the Allied Supreme Council at the San Remo on 26 April of that year; at which time the Military Occupation and Governorship ended and the British Civil Administration began _(ending the Occupation)_.

The partition of the Administrative Divisions under Ottoman Rule known as the Vilayet of Beirut, the Sanjak of Jerusalem, and the Wadi west of the Jordan River to the Gulf of Aqaba, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, would be named "Palestine" by the Order in Council as delineated within such boundaries as may be fixed by them.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

british mandate for palestine colonial power


RoccoR said:


> at which time the Military Occupation and Governorship ended and the British Civil Administration began _(ending the Occupation)_.


Britain ruled as a colonial power until 1948. During this time, Britain assisted the Zionists in creating a "state within a state" (Britain's term not mine.) including a military. This military began conscripting soldiers in December of 1947.

It was a piece of cake for the Zionists to roll their military over Palestine attacking, expelling, and killing virtually unarmed civilians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *I could not find one sentence in your responses that were not corrupted with a measure of deceit.



P F Tinmore said:


> british mandate for palestine colonial power





RoccoR said:


> at which time the Military Occupation and Governorship ended and the British Civil Administration began _(ending the Occupation)_.





P F Tinmore said:


> Britain ruled as a colonial power until 1948. During this time, Britain assisted the Zionists in creating a "state within a state" (Britain's term not mine.) including a military. This military began conscripting soldiers in December of 1947.
> 
> It was a piece of cake for the Zionists to roll their military over Palestine attacking, expelling, and killing virtually unarmed civilians.


*(COMMENT)*

The British Civil Administration under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, following the appropriate Enemy Occupation, is NOT the same as the imposition of colonialism.  It was established under the San Remo Convention,  Article 95_ (__SECTION VII • SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE)_ of the Treaty of Sevres as replaced by Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.


			
				The International Relations Dictionary • Nationalism - Imperialism - and Colonialism said:
			
		

> *Colonialism *
> The rule of an area and its people by an external sovereignty pursuing a policy of imperialism. Historically, two broad types of colonialism can be identified:
> 
> (1) that which involved the transplanting of emigrants from the mother country to form a new political entity at a distant location; and​​(2) that which involved the imposition of rule over the technologically less-developed indigenous peoples of Asia and Africa. In either case, the colony was established to advance the military security, economic advantage, and international prestige of the imperial power. See also Dependent Territory.​*SOURCE:*  CLIO Dictionaries in Political Science


​

			
				History Central said:
			
		

> *1947 *Unrest In Palestine - Britain Turns Problem Over To UN -On November 29, 1947, the U.N. General Assembly met to vote on the proposal to partition Palestine. All of Zionist foreign policy was tied to this one moment. Members of the Zionist delegation lobbied continually to ensure that the partition motion was passed. The members of the American Zionist Movement were especially instrumental in influencing many wavering delegations to vote for the partition. The final results were as follows:​​Supporting the partition:​Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussia (part of the Soviet Union), Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukraine, Union of South Africa, U.S.S.R., U.S.A., Uruguay and Venezuela.​​Against partition:​Afghanistan, Cuba, *Egypt*, Greece, India, Iran,* Iraq*, *Lebanon*, Pakistan, *Saudi Arabia*,* Syria*, Turkey and *Yemen*.​​Abstaining:​Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom.​​After the vote, Abba Hillel Silver spoke on behalf of the Jewish Agency, saying, "The Jewish people will be forever grateful to the nations which contributed to the decision; we're especially appreciative of the leadership provided by the United States and the Soviet Union and are happy that, in the solution of the Palestine problem, these two great powers worked harmoniously together."​*SOURCE:* History Central


I noticed that of the 13 countries that voted against the resolution, 6 (nearly half) contributed forces to the 1948 invasion during the Arab Israeli War of Independence.

I find it almost deplorable and disgraceful that you would suggest that the Haganah were the only side engaged in "conscripting soldiers in December of 1947."  Just because the Arab Palestinians lacked unity, had poor leadership, and dependent on the Arab League Forces from five major members is NOT the fault of the Jewish Organized Response.  As you like to point out, the Arab population was the significant majority in the territory.



			
				Chapter 2 • The Partition Plan and the end of the British Mandate said:
			
		

> The adoption of resolution  181  (II)  was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine.  As the situation deteriorated,  the  Security  Council called for a  special session of the  General  Assembly,  which then met from  16  April to  14  May 1948.  On  17  April,  the  Security  Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in  Palestine,  and on  23  April it established a  Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire...
> *SOURCE:*   “The  Question  of  Palestine  and  the  United  Nations”






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *I could not find one sentence in your responses that were not corrupted with a measure of deceit.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> british mandate for palestine colonial power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> at which time the Military Occupation and Governorship ended and the British Civil Administration began _(ending the Occupation)_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled as a colonial power until 1948. During this time, Britain assisted the Zionists in creating a "state within a state" (Britain's term not mine.) including a military. This military began conscripting soldiers in December of 1947.
> 
> It was a piece of cake for the Zionists to roll their military over Palestine attacking, expelling, and killing virtually unarmed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The British Civil Administration under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, following the appropriate Enemy Occupation, is NOT the same as the imposition of colonialism.  It was established under the San Remo Convention,  Article 95_ (__SECTION VII • SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE)_ of the Treaty of Sevres as replaced by Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The International Relations Dictionary • Nationalism - Imperialism - and Colonialism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism *​The rule of an area and its people by an external sovereignty pursuing a policy of imperialism. Historically, two broad types of colonialism can be identified:​​(1) that which involved the transplanting of emigrants from the mother country to form a new political entity at a distant location; and​​(2) that which involved the imposition of rule over the technologically less-developed indigenous peoples of Asia and Africa. In either case, the colony was established to advance the military security, economic advantage, and international prestige of the imperial power. See also Dependent Territory.​
> *SOURCE:*  CLIO Dictionaries in Political Science​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> History Central said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1947 *Unrest In Palestine - Britain Turns Problem Over To UN -On November 29, 1947, the U.N. General Assembly met to vote on the proposal to partition Palestine. All of Zionist foreign policy was tied to this one moment. Members of the Zionist delegation lobbied continually to ensure that the partition motion was passed. The members of the American Zionist Movement were especially instrumental in influencing many wavering delegations to vote for the partition. The final results were as follows:​​Supporting the partition:​Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussia (part of the Soviet Union), Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukraine, Union of South Africa, U.S.S.R., U.S.A., Uruguay and Venezuela.​​Against partition:​Afghanistan, Cuba, *Egypt*, Greece, India, Iran,* Iraq*, *Lebanon*, Pakistan, *Saudi Arabia*,* Syria*, Turkey and *Yemen*.​​Abstaining:​Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom.​​After the vote, Abba Hillel Silver spoke on behalf of the Jewish Agency, saying, "The Jewish people will be forever grateful to the nations which contributed to the decision; we're especially appreciative of the leadership provided by the United States and the Soviet Union and are happy that, in the solution of the Palestine problem, these two great powers worked harmoniously together."​
> *SOURCE:* History Central​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I noticed that of the 13 countries that voted against the resolution, 6 (nearly half) contributed forces to the 1948 invasion during the Arab Israeli War of Independence.
> 
> I find it almost deplorable and disgraceful that you would suggest that the Haganah were the only side engaged in "conscripting soldiers in December of 1947."  Just because the Arab Palestinians lacked unity, had poor leadership, and dependent on the Arab League Forces from five major members is NOT the fault of the Jewish Organized Response.  As you like to point out, the Arab population was the significant majority in the territory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter 2 • The Partition Plan and the end of the British Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The adoption of resolution  181  (II)  was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine.  As the situation deteriorated,  the  Security  Council called for a  special session of the  General  Assembly,  which then met from  16  April to  14  May 1948.  On  17  April,  the  Security  Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in  Palestine,  and on  23  April it established a  Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire...​*SOURCE:*   “The  Question  of  Palestine  and  the  United  Nations”​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Britain was supposed to render administrative assistance and advice in the best interest of the people. Britain maintained its military presence during the mandate period and actually increased its forces.

That is some heavy duty administrative assistance and advice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I find it almost deplorable and disgraceful that you would suggest that the Haganah were the only side engaged in "conscripting soldiers in December of 1947."


Blah, blah, blah.

The Zionist's attack on the Palestinians started months before any Arab army entered Palestine. They were two separate events.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *I could not find one sentence in your responses that were not corrupted with a measure of deceit.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> british mandate for palestine colonial power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> at which time the Military Occupation and Governorship ended and the British Civil Administration began _(ending the Occupation)_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled as a colonial power until 1948. During this time, Britain assisted the Zionists in creating a "state within a state" (Britain's term not mine.) including a military. This military began conscripting soldiers in December of 1947.
> 
> It was a piece of cake for the Zionists to roll their military over Palestine attacking, expelling, and killing virtually unarmed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The British Civil Administration under a Mandate by the Allied Powers, following the appropriate Enemy Occupation, is NOT the same as the imposition of colonialism.  It was established under the San Remo Convention,  Article 95_ (__SECTION VII • SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE)_ of the Treaty of Sevres as replaced by Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The International Relations Dictionary • Nationalism - Imperialism - and Colonialism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Colonialism *​The rule of an area and its people by an external sovereignty pursuing a policy of imperialism. Historically, two broad types of colonialism can be identified:​​(1) that which involved the transplanting of emigrants from the mother country to form a new political entity at a distant location; and​​(2) that which involved the imposition of rule over the technologically less-developed indigenous peoples of Asia and Africa. In either case, the colony was established to advance the military security, economic advantage, and international prestige of the imperial power. See also Dependent Territory.​
> *SOURCE:*  CLIO Dictionaries in Political Science​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> History Central said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1947 *Unrest In Palestine - Britain Turns Problem Over To UN -On November 29, 1947, the U.N. General Assembly met to vote on the proposal to partition Palestine. All of Zionist foreign policy was tied to this one moment. Members of the Zionist delegation lobbied continually to ensure that the partition motion was passed. The members of the American Zionist Movement were especially instrumental in influencing many wavering delegations to vote for the partition. The final results were as follows:​​Supporting the partition:​Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussia (part of the Soviet Union), Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukraine, Union of South Africa, U.S.S.R., U.S.A., Uruguay and Venezuela.​​Against partition:​Afghanistan, Cuba, *Egypt*, Greece, India, Iran,* Iraq*, *Lebanon*, Pakistan, *Saudi Arabia*,* Syria*, Turkey and *Yemen*.​​Abstaining:​Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom.​​After the vote, Abba Hillel Silver spoke on behalf of the Jewish Agency, saying, "The Jewish people will be forever grateful to the nations which contributed to the decision; we're especially appreciative of the leadership provided by the United States and the Soviet Union and are happy that, in the solution of the Palestine problem, these two great powers worked harmoniously together."​
> *SOURCE:* History Central​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I noticed that of the 13 countries that voted against the resolution, 6 (nearly half) contributed forces to the 1948 invasion during the Arab Israeli War of Independence.
> 
> I find it almost deplorable and disgraceful that you would suggest that the Haganah were the only side engaged in "conscripting soldiers in December of 1947."  Just because the Arab Palestinians lacked unity, had poor leadership, and dependent on the Arab League Forces from five major members is NOT the fault of the Jewish Organized Response.  As you like to point out, the Arab population was the significant majority in the territory.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter 2 • The Partition Plan and the end of the British Mandate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The adoption of resolution  181  (II)  was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine.  As the situation deteriorated,  the  Security  Council called for a  special session of the  General  Assembly,  which then met from  16  April to  14  May 1948.  On  17  April,  the  Security  Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in  Palestine,  and on  23  April it established a  Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire...​*SOURCE:*   “The  Question  of  Palestine  and  the  United  Nations”​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I could not find one sentence in your responses that were not corrupted with a measure of deceit.


Like?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Blah, blah, blah.


Link?


----------



## Hollie

Israeli authorities are taking something of a no-nonsense approach to distribution of Islamic terrorist funds.










						Israel to seize Palestinian terrorist funds - TV7 Israel News
					

Israeli Alternate Premier and Defense Minister Benny Gantz has signed four orders authorizing the seizure of funds and property that Hamas transferred to families of terrorists in Israel. According to a statement sent by the Israeli Defense Ministry to TV7, the decision comes as part of an...



					www.tv7israelnews.com
				





Israeli Alternate Premier and Defense Minister Benny Gantz has signed four orders authorizing the seizure of funds and property that Hamas

families of terrorists in Israel.

According to a statement sent by the Israeli Defense Ministry to TV7, the decision comes as part of an economic campaign against terrorism being waged by the National Bureau for Counter Terror Financing (NBTCF) at the Ministry of Defense, jointly with the Israel Security Agency, IDF Military Intelligence, Israel Police, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other divisions.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *I think you are grasping at straws.



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain was supposed to render administrative assistance and advice in the best interest of the people.


*(COMMENT)*

The British, nor the Allied Powers, did not directly owe the Arab Palestinians any particular obligation.  The British Administration tried to interest the Arab Palestinians to engage in establishing self-government; but, to no avail.



			
				UK History of Administration said:
			
		

> 22.    Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.  The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.  They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage.  The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority.  If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on  more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development.  From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> SOURCE:  A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947



It was not the fault of the British Administration that the territory was exclusively administered by British officials.



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain maintained its military presence during the mandate period and actually increased its forces.
> ...
> That is some heavy-duty administrative assistance and advice.


*(COMMENT)*

There was not one signle government in the Middle East that did not have an Armed Force; not now and not then...

The Administration of Palestine _(exclusively administered by British officials)_ was responsible for the preservation of peace, order, and defence of the country.  This was part of the Mandate and the Hague Regulation.

To complain about the Military Presence and Territorial Police, is ridiculous.  This is especially true when dealing with enemies like the heavily armed Palestinian Black Hand.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The British, nor the Allied Powers, did not directly owe the Arab Palestinians any particular obligation.


I hear that a lot but have never seen any proof that it is true. Just a lot of say so by Israel supporters.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *It is damn difficult to prove a promise was never made.



RoccoR said:


> The British, nor the Allied Powers, did not directly owe the Arab Palestinians any particular obligation.





P F Tinmore said:


> I hear that a lot but have never seen any proof that it is true. Just a lot of say-so by Israel supporters.


*(EXAMPLE)*

You promised us to keep an open mind*!*  •  "But I have never seen any proof that it is true."  •  Can you prove that_?_




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It is damn difficult to prove a promise was never made.


Nice duck!

If you can't prove it, don't say it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You promised us to keep an open mind*!* • "But I have never seen any proof that it is true." • Can you prove that_?_


I can't keep an open mind when my questions are always ducked.


----------



## Hollie

More of what you expect from Islamic terrorist psychopaths.

Not surprisingly, the Death Cultists claim “we” will sacrifice but quickly identifies that “we” really mean sacrificial children.

Such are the dangers of insular, Islamic terrorist enclaves.



*PA: “We are prepared to sacrifice… We will sacrifice our children”‎*
Itamar Marcus  | Oct 15, 2020
*PA threatens “bloodshed and chaos,” “escalation of the resistance,” and ‎‎“national rebellion” - PA’s response to Arab states making peace with Israel ‎*



PA Chairman Abbas’ special emissary Jibril Rajoub continues to meet and plan a ‎unified *“escalation of the resistance” *together with “the factions” - terror organizations ‎that include Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and PFLP. According to Rajoub, this “escalation” ‎will include “sacrifice” of Palestinian children:‎


> *“We are prepared to sacrifice… We will sacrifice our children”‎*
> ‎[Facebook page of Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub,
> and Al-Mayadeen (Lebanon), Oct. 7, 2020]‎


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You promised us to keep an open mind*!* • "But I have never seen any proof that it is true." • Can you prove that_?_
> 
> 
> 
> I can't keep an open mind when my questions are always ducked.
Click to expand...

Your silly, tired slogans are a hoot.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *I see you went for the go-to response.



RoccoR said:


> It is damn difficult to prove a promise was never made.





P F Tinmore said:


> Nice duck!
> If you can't prove it, don't say it.


*(COMMENT)*

This is the fallacy known as an Appeal to Ignorance.  

It is like asking the question, what is the last significant digit in the number π _(Pi)_ ? The answer can be any number between 0 and 9. It cannot be proven in this forum, since π _(Pi) _is an irrational number. The question can be asked, yet the question is meaningless. Any answer can be given, but the answer is meaningless.



RoccoR said:


> You promised us to keep an open mind*!* • "But I have never seen any proof that it is true." • Can you prove that_?_





P F Tinmore said:


> I can't keep an open mind when my questions are always ducked.


*(COMMENT)*

◈  Your ability to keep an open mind has nothing to do with my response.​​◈  I don't duck your questions at all.  You just don't like the response.​
Typically you like to either:

◈  Avoid the Question​​◈  Change the Question​
In doing so, you place even a greater question as to the validity of your position.  In this case, you claimed that I ducked the question; but refuse to critique what weakness you see in my response.  This is called an unsubstantiated claim.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *I see you went for the go-to response.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is damn difficult to prove a promise was never made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck!
> If you can't prove it, don't say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is the fallacy known as an Appeal to Ignorance.
> 
> It is like asking the question, what is the last significant digit in the number π _(Pi)_ ? The answer can be any number between 0 and 9. It cannot be proven in this forum, since π _(Pi) _is an irrational number. The question can be asked, yet the question is meaningless. Any answer can be given, but the answer is meaningless.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You promised us to keep an open mind*!* • "But I have never seen any proof that it is true." • Can you prove that_?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't keep an open mind when my questions are always ducked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Your ability to keep an open mind has nothing to do with my response.​​◈  I don't duck your questions at all.  You just don't like the response.​
> Typically you like to either:
> 
> ◈  Avoid the Question​​◈  Change the Question​
> In doing so, you place even a greater question as to the validity of your position.  In this case, you claimed that I ducked the question; but refuse to critique what weakness you see in my response.  This is called an unsubstantiated claim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You make a claim.

I ask you to prove your point.

You duck.

If you can't prove it, don't say it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.



Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
Click to expand...

Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
Click to expand...


I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
Click to expand...











__





						United Nations Maintenance Page
					






					unispal.un.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
Click to expand...

No quote, huh?

Didn't think so.

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quote, huh?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...

The above Armistice agreement was provided earlier. It provided precisely what you chose to deny it provided.

Is it your intention to make yourself a complete buffoon?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quote, huh?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Do you need more than the one in #17,621?


----------



## Hollie

One really gets the impression that the Pals have traded on false grievances and a presumed entitlement that the Arab world is quickly losing interest in. 











						Do Arabs Really Want to Mortgage Their Future to the Palestinians?
					

More than 70 years after the creation of the "Palestinian problem," the Arab world is fed up, finally realizing that there is no solution that will satisfy the naysaying Palestinians.




					www.newsmax.com
				





So you think the Arab world wants to give the Palestinians a state?

In September, the 22-member Arab League rejected the Palestinian request to condemn the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for its peace deal with Israel, confirming the political reality that, in the Mideast today, Palestinians are no longer the central concern.

Palestinian terrorism, their willingness to take military action against their Arab brothers and their alliance with Iran and Syria have fostered a belief among states like Jordan, Kuwait, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia that an independent Palestinian state would threaten the region.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quote, huh?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The above Armistice agreement was provided earlier. It provided precisely what you chose to deny it provided.
> 
> Is it your intention to make yourself a complete buffoon?
Click to expand...

Still no quote,huh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quote, huh?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The above Armistice agreement was provided earlier. It provided precisely what you chose to deny it provided.
> 
> Is it your intention to make yourself a complete buffoon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still no quote,huh?
Click to expand...


You mean aside from the citation you requested? The one provided to you?

No dignity, huh?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posted the agreements between Israel and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No quote, huh?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The above Armistice agreement was provided earlier. It provided precisely what you chose to deny it provided.
> 
> Is it your intention to make yourself a complete buffoon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still no quote,huh?
Click to expand...






DURR


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.



P F Tinmore said:


> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?





P F Tinmore said:


> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.


*(COMMENT)*

Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.

•  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
•  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
•  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
•  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
•  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.
> 
> • Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
> •  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
> •  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
> Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
> • EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
> Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
> This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT


That is a letter. This is the agreement.



			The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.
> 
> • Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
> •  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
> •  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
> Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
> • EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
> Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
> This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a letter. This is the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link.





Interesting title.........


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.
> 
> • Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
> •  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
> •  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
> Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
> • EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
> Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
> This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a letter. This is the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> View attachment 402069
> 
> Interesting title.........
Click to expand...

Indeed. Israeli is not a place.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.
> 
> • Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
> •  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
> •  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
> Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
> • EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
> Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
> This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a letter. This is the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> View attachment 402069
> 
> Interesting title.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Israeli is not a place.
Click to expand...


What is Israeli?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.
> 
> • Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
> •  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
> •  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
> Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
> • EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
> Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
> This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a letter. This is the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> View attachment 402069
> 
> Interesting title.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Israeli is not a place.
Click to expand...


You're just mindlessly spamming the thread.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2      
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *Obviously, you are having trouble reading.



​


RoccoR said:


> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​





RoccoR said:


> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT





P F Tinmore said:


> That is a letter. This is the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949


*(COMMENT)*

The Agreement is an enclosure to the Letter of Transmittal.  Look at it again_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed. Israeli is not a place.


*(COMMENT)*

You can say The Israeli Government - or - You can say The Government of Israel.  It means the same thing _(a distinction without a difference)_.  To attempt to argue or raise objections about a trivial matter _(Israel vs Israeli)..._ also known as "quibbling"... is merely an attempt to change or divert the discussion. Like I've said before, this is a known tactic of yours.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

More of the mental disorder that appears so frequently from the Pals.

For some reason, we in the west still shower this illness with welfare money. 


*OK to murder Israeli civilians because they are all “criminals” - Hamas’ message in ‎TV series*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 16, 2020



Murdering Israeli/Jewish civilians is legitimate according to TV series produced and ‎broadcast by Hamas. ‎

In a scene on the show _Self-Sacrificing Fighter (Fida’i)_, which was produced by Hamas’ ‎Al-Aqsa TV and rebroadcast recently, an armed terrorist enters a restaurant in Tel Aviv ‎and shoots and murders Israeli/Jewish diners.

Following the attack, a Palestinian ‎woman is being interrogated by an Israeli investigator. She explains that while Islam ‎forbids murdering civilians, killing Israelis/Jews is justified because Israelis/Jews are all ‎‎“criminals”: ‎


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is just one more meaningless question; for which you will ignore the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a claim.
> I ask you to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like when you claimed Israel isn't in any of the armistice agreements, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the quote where the place called Israel is mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each of the Armistice Agreements has a heading.  Each of the Armistice has a signature of the parties to the Armistice.
> 
> • Israeli-Syrian General Armistice S/1353/Add.2 of 27 July 1949
> •  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> Formal Heading:  Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT​Article V91):  "Armistice Demarcation Line between the Israeli and Syrian armed forces"​
> •  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE 23 March 1949
> Formal Heading:  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​
> •  Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)
> Formal Heading:  HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:  GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  For and on behalf of the Government of Israel​Article VI (5)  "the Government of Israel agrees to pay to the Government of the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom"​
> • EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT 23 February 1949
> Formal Heading:  EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT​Formal Signature:  FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL​Article VI (2) "surrounding area from which Israeli forces shall be withdrawn to north of the Armistice Demarcation Line"​
> This is an absolute frivolous claim you have put forth.  It is neither a claim in good faith nor does it have any relevance to contemporary time.  I only bother to respond to demonstrate just how inept your arguments are.  This is not unlike answers I have given before in previous commentaries over the last decade.  You have been given this information several times.  I can only surmise that this is just another attempt at misleading the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Formal Heading: HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a letter. This is the agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> View attachment 402069
> 
> Interesting title.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Israeli is not a place.
Click to expand...


Indeed. You're just spamming the thread with your usual piffle.

HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL:
GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT





__





						S/1302/Rev.1 of 3 April 1949
					





					unispal.un.org


----------



## Hollie

It seems to be something of a nebulous argument to suggest that there is any real distinction between so much of the Pal civil society and the component Islamic terrorist promoting leadership.











						‘Only terrorists need apply’ for Palestinian NGOs
					

It is both damning and revealing that many Palestinian civil-society organizations either have links to, or vocally support, those whose stated aim is the destruction of world’s sole Jewish state.




					www.jns.org
				




It is both damning and revealing that many Palestinian civil-society organizations either have links to, or vocally support, those whose stated aim is the destruction of world’s sole Jewish state.

The P.A., which rules over the majority of Palestinians, has prohibited all Palestinian NGOs from cooperating with foreign funders who want to put anti-terror clauses in their funding. And, as the blogger Elder of Ziyon has documented, “if any Palestinian NGO signs a clause” saying “that they will not hire or fund terrorists, they will be prosecuted under Palestinian law.” In an Oct. 13 blog, the blogger highlights a story that many missed.


----------



## Hollie

Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan is not, how shall we say, ''a fan of the Pals'' when it comes to critique of Pal failures and inadequacies regarding peace efforts. 










						Yasser Arafat passed up Palestine peace deals from two US presidents: Prince Bandar
					

Yasser Arafat and other Palestinian leaders passed up and hindered offers to secure a lasting peace process to the Israel-Palestine conflict, said Saudi




					english.alarabiya.net
				





Yasser Arafat and other Palestinian leaders passed up and hindered offers to secure a lasting peace process to the Israel-Palestine conflict, said Saudi Arabia’s former Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar bin Sultan on Tuesday.

In the second episode of a three-part exclusive interview with Al Arabiya, Prince Bandar shared inside information into the difficulties of the Palestinian peace process, as a veteran Saudi diplomat who served for more than 20 years in Washington.


According to Prince Bandar, who later became the Kingdom’s intelligence chief and head of national security, the Palestinian leadership undermined the peace negotiations at several stages despite Saudi Arabian efforts to secure a deal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It seems to be something of a nebulous argument to suggest that there is any real distinction between so much of the Pal civil society and the component Islamic terrorist promoting leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Only terrorists need apply’ for Palestinian NGOs
> 
> 
> It is both damning and revealing that many Palestinian civil-society organizations either have links to, or vocally support, those whose stated aim is the destruction of world’s sole Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is both damning and revealing that many Palestinian civil-society organizations either have links to, or vocally support, those whose stated aim is the destruction of world’s sole Jewish state.
> 
> The P.A., which rules over the majority of Palestinians, has prohibited all Palestinian NGOs from cooperating with foreign funders who want to put anti-terror clauses in their funding. And, as the blogger Elder of Ziyon has documented, “if any Palestinian NGO signs a clause” saying “that they will not hire or fund terrorists, they will be prosecuted under Palestinian law.” In an Oct. 13 blog, the blogger highlights a story that many missed.


Indeed, they do not want to fall into the foreign name calling trap.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan is not, how shall we say, ''a fan of the Pals'' when it comes to critique of Pal failures and inadequacies regarding peace efforts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yasser Arafat passed up Palestine peace deals from two US presidents: Prince Bandar
> 
> 
> Yasser Arafat and other Palestinian leaders passed up and hindered offers to secure a lasting peace process to the Israel-Palestine conflict, said Saudi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yasser Arafat and other Palestinian leaders passed up and hindered offers to secure a lasting peace process to the Israel-Palestine conflict, said Saudi Arabia’s former Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar bin Sultan on Tuesday.
> 
> In the second episode of a three-part exclusive interview with Al Arabiya, Prince Bandar shared inside information into the difficulties of the Palestinian peace process, as a veteran Saudi diplomat who served for more than 20 years in Washington.
> 
> 
> According to Prince Bandar, who later became the Kingdom’s intelligence chief and head of national security, the Palestinian leadership undermined the peace negotiations at several stages despite Saudi Arabian efforts to secure a deal.


The so called peace negotiations were a sham.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be something of a nebulous argument to suggest that there is any real distinction between so much of the Pal civil society and the component Islamic terrorist promoting leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Only terrorists need apply’ for Palestinian NGOs
> 
> 
> It is both damning and revealing that many Palestinian civil-society organizations either have links to, or vocally support, those whose stated aim is the destruction of world’s sole Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is both damning and revealing that many Palestinian civil-society organizations either have links to, or vocally support, those whose stated aim is the destruction of world’s sole Jewish state.
> 
> The P.A., which rules over the majority of Palestinians, has prohibited all Palestinian NGOs from cooperating with foreign funders who want to put anti-terror clauses in their funding. And, as the blogger Elder of Ziyon has documented, “if any Palestinian NGO signs a clause” saying “that they will not hire or fund terrorists, they will be prosecuted under Palestinian law.” In an Oct. 13 blog, the blogger highlights a story that many missed.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they do not want to fall into the foreign name calling trap.
Click to expand...

Indeed. You suffer from hurt feelings when appropriate attributes such as ''Islamic terrorists'' are applied to Pal Arabs.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan is not, how shall we say, ''a fan of the Pals'' when it comes to critique of Pal failures and inadequacies regarding peace efforts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yasser Arafat passed up Palestine peace deals from two US presidents: Prince Bandar
> 
> 
> Yasser Arafat and other Palestinian leaders passed up and hindered offers to secure a lasting peace process to the Israel-Palestine conflict, said Saudi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yasser Arafat and other Palestinian leaders passed up and hindered offers to secure a lasting peace process to the Israel-Palestine conflict, said Saudi Arabia’s former Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar bin Sultan on Tuesday.
> 
> In the second episode of a three-part exclusive interview with Al Arabiya, Prince Bandar shared inside information into the difficulties of the Palestinian peace process, as a veteran Saudi diplomat who served for more than 20 years in Washington.
> 
> 
> According to Prince Bandar, who later became the Kingdom’s intelligence chief and head of national security, the Palestinian leadership undermined the peace negotiations at several stages despite Saudi Arabian efforts to secure a deal.
> 
> 
> 
> The so called peace negotiations were a sham.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the consistent failure of the Palis to form a working government capable of maintaining the conditions of a peace agreement would cause you to retreat into your burqa of denial.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pal Arabs “We Teach Life”?



Mother of Palestinian “Martyr”: All Palestinian Mothers Should Urge Their Children to Wage Jihad


----------



## Hollie

Saeb ‘’_Jews Spread the Virus_” Erekat has, for some unknown reason, decided to go to Israel for competent medical care.




*PA Irony: PA leader chooses Israeli hospital for HIS Coronavirus treatment after saying ‎Israel intentionally spreads the virus to kill Palestinians*










						PA Irony: PA leader chooses Israeli hospital for HIS Coronavirus treatment after saying ‎Israel intentionally spreads the virus to kill Palestinians | PMW Analysis
					

It is quite ironic that top PA official Saeb Erekat has asked that Israel’s Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem treat him for his Coronavirus disease.




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus  | Oct 18, 2020

It is quite ironic that top PA official Saeb Erekat has asked that Israel’s Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem treat him for his Coronavirus disease. Israeli sources reported this afternoon and Palestinian sources confirmed that Erekat, who was reported sick last week, is now having trouble breathing and is being moved to the Israeli hospital.


----------



## Hollie

Just guessing here but I’m guessing that Jabril “_Peace Partner_” Rajoub is not going to ingratiate himself with Arab leaders by calling them “*worms ‎exposed by the sun”.*

That seems a bit harsh, especially if Jabril will be pleading to these same Arab leaders for a welfare check a few months from now.


*PA: Arab peace makers are “enemies of the Islamic society,” “worms ‎exposed by the sun,” and Netanyahu is a “distorted copy of Mussolini” ‎*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 19, 2020









						PA: Arab peace makers are “enemies of the Islamic society,” “worms ‎exposed by the sun,” and Netanyahu is a “distorted copy of Mussolini” ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

“These are connections that in reality will be nothing more than ‎the connection between a master and his slave.”‎




					palwatch.org
				




*‎PA to Arab peace makers:
“These are connections that in reality will be nothing more than ‎the connection between a master and his slave.”‎
‎“Tomorrow the US and the White House will ask you to erase the ‎Hadiths (i.e., Prophetic sayings) and the verses of the Quran that ‎are connected to the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Jerusalem.”‎*

An endless stream of insults from the PA has been pouring down on the heads of the ‎Arab states that dared normalize and agree to make peace with Israel.‎

While the initial announcements of peace elicited accusations of “betrayal,” ‎seeing the foreign ministers of the UAE and Bahrain actually sign the ‎agreements with Netanyahu and Trump at the White House, took the insults ‎up a notch.‎

A fuming Jibril Rajoub - Fatah’s Central Committee Secretary - likened the ‎Arab foreign ministers to “worms” exposed by the sun, and Netanyahu to ‎fascist Mussolini: ‎


----------



## Hollie

__





						The West Asia Post: Is Saudi Arabia's support for Palestine eroding?
					





					www.msn.com
				





In a recent interview, Saudi Prince Bandar Bin Sultan accused the Palestinian leaders of failing its people. The scathing remarks signalled a first for Saudi Arabia and raised an important question. Is Saudi Arabia's support for the Palestinian


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In a recent interview, Saudi Prince Bandar Bin Sultan accused the Palestinian leaders of failing its people.


The Palestinians are saying the same thing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent interview, Saudi Prince Bandar Bin Sultan accused the Palestinian leaders of failing its people.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are saying the same thing.
Click to expand...

Swapping out Islamic terrorist dictators serves what purpose?


----------



## Hollie

The article points to a bleak outlook for Abbas, and by extension, the gaggle of Ministers, executives, managers, hangers-on and cronies who are making themselves wealthy from the industry of Pal welfare fraud.

Mahmoud’s underlings have everything to lose with the international community and Arab states cutting back their financial contributions to the Abbas slush fund. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/10/20/left-alone-on-the-field-abbas-is-refusing-to-change/
		



Angry, sad, and ill, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has been stuck at home in Ramallah for a few months now. COVID is forcing him to be extra careful. At his age, 85, with many other medical conditions, Abbas cannot allow himself to do otherwise. But according to reports from his inner circle, his glumness is mostly because of the PA's ongoing economic and diplomatic isolation.

After the very public slap in the face from the Arab League, which effectively rejected the Palestinians' request to condemn the normalization agreements between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, Abbas and his speakers let loose, cursing and scolding the Gulf Arab states. But the appearance of Bandar Bin Sultan, a former top-ranking Saudi diplomat, on Al-Arabiyya and the very public finger that the former head of Saudi intelligence flipped the Palestinians has shut their mouths.


----------



## Hollie

Just one year ago, I don’t believe anyone would have thought this was possible looking one year forward.



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/10/20/israel-welcomes-first-emirati-delegation-since-states-founding/
		


Due to COVID-19, visit will last only five hours, but arrival marks another step in the historic normalization process between Israel and the Gulf Arab nation.


----------



## Hollie

It's truly a mental disorder. 




*Fatah: Let Jerusalem “be freed of the Jews” and prepare “the Jews’ graveyard”*









						Fatah: Let Jerusalem “be freed of the Jews” and prepare “the Jews’ graveyard” | PMW Analysis
					

It is precisely because of terror promoting and antisemitic posts like this that Fatah earlier this month had the option to boost posts cancelled by Facebook.




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 20, 2020



Abbas’ Fatah Movement recently posted a video with a song calling for Jerusalem “to be freed of the Jews.” It also encouraged Arab states to unite and break down borders between them to “redeem” Jerusalem and prepare “the Jews’ graveyard”:


----------



## Hollie

The article describes the literal, self-created disasters that the Palis have committed, multiple tines, 












						Second intifada: Two decades of setbacks in Palestine
					

Since a second intifada, or uprising, erupted on September 28, 2000, Palestinians have faced a string of military turnarounds and diplomatic defeats as well as their own internal divisions. A recap -  On September 28, 2000, right-wing Israeli opposition leader Ariel Sharon visits the Al-Aqsa...




					www.deccanherald.com
				




Since a second intifada, or uprising, erupted on September 28, 2000, Palestinians have faced a string of military turnarounds and diplomatic defeats as well as their own internal divisions.


----------



## Hollie

Ironic how the Pali terrorist politburo member came crying to Israel screeching “save me”. 



*PA’s “Animal Farm”: No to normalization for regular Palestinians; Yes to normalization for PA leaders who need treatment in Israeli hospitals*









						PA’s “Animal Farm”: No to normalization for regular Palestinians; Yes to normalization for PA leaders who need treatment in Israeli hospitals | PMW Analysis
					

Despite the PA’s cessation of all cooperation, PA’s chief negotiator Saeb Erekat is able to enjoy “normal” relations with Israel, choosing an Israeli hospital for his current treatment for the coronavirus disease.




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 21, 2020





*Even visiting the Al-Aqsa Mosque is presented as unacceptable “normalization”*
The PA has been just as adamant about not allowing any normalization with Israel as the animals in Orwell’s_ Animal Farm_ were about the need for animals to stick together against humans who were “the only real enemy.” But as happened in Orwell’s classic when the pigs decided they were superior and granted themselves rights that they refused the other “equal” animals, so too PA leaders are happy to have normal relations with Israel when it comes to themselves, while refusing and even condemning ordinary Palestinians for having any normalization with Israelis at all. Indeed, in the PA - as on Orwell’s farm - “some are more equal than others.”


----------



## Hollie

I’m sure the Pals wish him a speedy recovery so he can return to the territories and resume the obligatory Jew hating. 











						PLO leader Saeb Erekat in ‘critical’ condition
					

Hadassah hospital said Palestinian official has been put on a ventilator and in a medically induced coma.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Hollie

An interesting article that makes some obvious points addressing the militarization of the Islamic terrorist enclave known as the PA. 










						Palestinians Choose Guns Over Butter
					

Palestinians burn pictures depicting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, Ruler of Dubai …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





The PA has one of the largest per-capita security forces in the world. The Palestinian Shehab News Agency reported last year that the PA has “65,000 troops” — that is, policemen and various “security” units that function as a de facto army. The PA spent more than $1 billion on those forces in 2018, according to Shehab.

What in the world does the PA need 65,000 troops for? It’s not like the PA has ever fought any wars, or is threatened by any country in the region. According to the Oslo Accords, the PA’s security forces are supposed to apprehend terrorists, but they have never taken that obligation seriously, which is why the Israeli army has to keep going into PA areas to capture the terrorists whom the PA security forces leave untouched.

Exact percentages are difficult to come by, but according to a February 2015 PA Ministry of Finance report, “budget allocations to the security services in Palestine’s 2014 general budget amounted to 28%” of the total budget. And that figure might actually have been even higher. Hassan Khreisheh, vice president of the PA’s Legislative Council, told the Arab media outlet Al-Monitor last year that “the security expenditures are much higher, reaching 35% of the public budget.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> An interesting article that makes some obvious points addressing the militarization of the Islamic terrorist enclave known as the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians Choose Guns Over Butter
> 
> 
> Palestinians burn pictures depicting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, Ruler of Dubai …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PA has one of the largest per-capita security forces in the world. The Palestinian Shehab News Agency reported last year that the PA has “65,000 troops” — that is, policemen and various “security” units that function as a de facto army. The PA spent more than $1 billion on those forces in 2018, according to Shehab.
> 
> What in the world does the PA need 65,000 troops for? It’s not like the PA has ever fought any wars, or is threatened by any country in the region. According to the Oslo Accords, the PA’s security forces are supposed to apprehend terrorists, but they have never taken that obligation seriously, which is why the Israeli army has to keep going into PA areas to capture the terrorists whom the PA security forces leave untouched.
> 
> Exact percentages are difficult to come by, but according to a February 2015 PA Ministry of Finance report, “budget allocations to the security services in Palestine’s 2014 general budget amounted to 28%” of the total budget. And that figure might actually have been even higher. Hassan Khreisheh, vice president of the PA’s Legislative Council, told the Arab media outlet Al-Monitor last year that “the security expenditures are much higher, reaching 35% of the public budget.”


Security coordination is an Oslo requirement.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting article that makes some obvious points addressing the militarization of the Islamic terrorist enclave known as the PA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians Choose Guns Over Butter
> 
> 
> Palestinians burn pictures depicting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, Ruler of Dubai …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PA has one of the largest per-capita security forces in the world. The Palestinian Shehab News Agency reported last year that the PA has “65,000 troops” — that is, policemen and various “security” units that function as a de facto army. The PA spent more than $1 billion on those forces in 2018, according to Shehab.
> 
> What in the world does the PA need 65,000 troops for? It’s not like the PA has ever fought any wars, or is threatened by any country in the region. According to the Oslo Accords, the PA’s security forces are supposed to apprehend terrorists, but they have never taken that obligation seriously, which is why the Israeli army has to keep going into PA areas to capture the terrorists whom the PA security forces leave untouched.
> 
> Exact percentages are difficult to come by, but according to a February 2015 PA Ministry of Finance report, “budget allocations to the security services in Palestine’s 2014 general budget amounted to 28%” of the total budget. And that figure might actually have been even higher. Hassan Khreisheh, vice president of the PA’s Legislative Council, told the Arab media outlet Al-Monitor last year that “the security expenditures are much higher, reaching 35% of the public budget.”
> 
> 
> 
> Security coordination is an Oslo requirement.
Click to expand...


What happened to your slogan, ''Oslo is dead''? 

Not convenient?


----------



## Hollie

The expected reactions to Israel normalizing ties with Arab nations is again on display. The Palis are doing their best impression of a petulant child who has been scolded for bad behavior and sent for a timeout. 











						Palestinians condemn ‘shameful’ Israel-Sudan accord
					

Sudan will be the third Arab nation to normalize ties with Israel.




					m.jpost.com
				





The Palestinian Authority said on Friday that it “condemns and rejects” the normalization of relations between Arab countries and Israel.

A statement by the PA presidency in Ramallah said that normalization with Israel is in violation of the Arab summit resolutions and the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative.


----------



## Hollie

It could be that the Pals Iranian leaders demanded some action.



*IDF strikes Hamas targets in Gaza in response to rocket fire
Israeli aircraft target weapons manufacturing facility, underground infrastructure belonging to terror group, after 2 projectiles fired at Ashkelon*









						IDF strikes Hamas targets in Gaza in response to rocket fire
					

Israeli aircraft target weapons manufacturing facility, underground infrastructure belonging to terror group, after 2 projectiles fired at Ashkelon




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




By TOI STAFF23 October 2020, 2:46 am  0







Illustrative: Flames are seen following an Israeli air strike in the town of Deir al-Balah in the central Gaza Strip, October 20, 2020. (Said Khatib/AFP)
Israel carried out airstrikes in the Gaza Strip against the Hamas terror group early Friday, the military said, after two rockets were fired into Israeli territory by Palestinian terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

One of the ways to ensure that Islamic terrorists continue their acts of Islamic terrorism is to keep funding those syndicates.

The EU is doing exactly that. 











						Analysis of EU Funding to NGOs in 2019: Divisive Politics, Terror links, and Antisemitism - The Jewish Voice
					

report from  ngo-monitor.org On June 30, 2020, the European Commission updated its Financial Transparency System (FTS) with details about grants to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) authorized in 2019.1 NGO Monitor’s analysis of this information shows that in 2019, the EU authorized 32...




					thejewishvoice.com
				





report from  ngo-monitor.org
On June 30, 2020, the European Commission updated its Financial Transparency System (FTS) with details about grants to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) authorized in 2019.1

NGO Monitor’s analysis of this information shows that in 2019, the EU authorized 32 grants totaling €30.1 million for projects listed under “Palestine” and an additional 9 grants totaling €3.3 million for projects listed under “Israel” involving Israeli NGOs and human rights. Of these:

least 3 grants totaling *€5.8 million* involve Palestinian NGOs with ties to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), an EU-designated terrorist group. This is in addition to *at least €31.2 million *that the EU authorized in 2011-2018 to NGOs with ties to the PFLP. (See NGO Monitor’s report “EU Funding to Terror-Linked Palestinian NGOs Since 2011.”)
Seven grants totaling €11.8 million for projects on Jerusalem; some are clearly related to the EU’s highly politicized “strategic approach”, namely the* “urgent need to preserve the Palestinian identity of EJ (East Jerusalem)*.” Of note, one grant seeks to *“protect Islamic and Christian Waqf2 religious and cultural heritage properties against Israeli violations and threats*.”
Seven grants totaling €6 million claiming to advance peace or protect human rights. The Palestinian NGO grantees *promote hateful antisemitic conspiracy theories and/or glorify terror*.
At least 3 grants totaling *€1 million *aim to directly to influence Israeli democracy. The EU supports highly politicized NGOs to influence Israeli public attitudes on the conflict, to lobby public officials, and to intervene in the legal system.
The intended beneficiaries of EU funding to Israeli NGOs for human rights projects are mainly Palestinians *(5 of 9 grants, totaling €1.87 million*). With few exceptions, in 2019, the EU did not direct funds to tackle human rights issues affecting Israeli citizens.
Relatedly, the overwhelming majority of funding to organizations claiming to promote human rights are for political initiatives related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (*6 of 9 grants, totaling €2.47 million*). This indicates that the EU views its engagement with human rights in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza strictly through the filter of the conflict, not an objective appraisal of a diverse range of human rights challenges.
Many of the EU’s NGO grantees in 2019 have repeatedly received funding for similar projects, again illustrating the closed circle of funders and recipients.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A man died in Palestinian prison. It happens every couple of months. No one talks about it.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

This is the person Israel is treating for Wuhan virus. 



*Saeb Erekat in his own words*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Oct 25, 2020









						Saeb Erekat in his own words | PMW Analysis
					

Dr. Terror and Mr. Peace – the legacy of PLO Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat




					palwatch.org
				




*Dr. Terror and Mr. Peace – the legacy of PLO Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat*

*Support for terror and terrorists*
*Rewriting history*
*Threatening "chaos and bloodshed" in response to US embassy move to Jerusalem*
*“Peace” as a means to destroy Israel*
*Introduction*
For almost three decades, PLO Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat touted himself as a man of peace. In his role as Mr. Peace, Erekat traveled the world to sweet talk the willfully blind with the illusion of the Palestinian moderation, flexibility, and thirst for peace. But at home, in Arabic, Erekat, in his dominant role as Dr. Terror, made his true feelings clearly heard. Support for terrorists, whitewashing terror organizations and terror, threats of violence, rewriting history, and perpetuating libels against Israel, are just some of the views and actions espoused and carried out by Erekat.
While Palestinian Media Watch has often exposed the statements made by Erekat, the following is a special compilation focusing on a number of different themes exposing the true face of Saeb Erekat.


----------



## Hollie

The Palis are screeching about Sudan's acceptance of normalization of ties with Israel. 

Predictably, the Pals are whining about a ''stab in the back''. Such silly melodrama. 











						U.S. allies welcome Israel-Sudan deal; Iran, Palestine cry foul
					

Sudan is the third Arab govt. to reset ties in last two months




					www.thehindu.com
				





Sudan and Israel agreed on Friday to normalise relations, in a U.S.-brokered deal to end decades of hostility that was widely welcomed but stirred Palestinian anger.

The announcement makes Sudan, technically at war with Israel since its 1948 foundation, the third Arab country to forge diplomatic relations with the Jewish state in the last two months.

“HUGE win today for the United States and for peace in the world,” U.S. President Donald Trump tweeted.

Other U.S. allies, including Germany, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, welcomed the deal as a boost to stability in the West Asia.


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> The Palis are screeching about Sudan's acceptance of normalization of ties with Israel.
> 
> Predictably, the Pals are whining about a ''stab in the back''. Such silly melodrama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. allies welcome Israel-Sudan deal; Iran, Palestine cry foul
> 
> 
> Sudan is the third Arab govt. to reset ties in last two months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thehindu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sudan and Israel agreed on Friday to normalise relations, in a U.S.-brokered deal to end decades of hostility that was widely welcomed but stirred Palestinian anger.
> 
> The announcement makes Sudan, technically at war with Israel since its 1948 foundation, the third Arab country to forge diplomatic relations with the Jewish state in the last two months.
> 
> “HUGE win today for the United States and for peace in the world,” U.S. President Donald Trump tweeted.
> 
> Other U.S. allies, including Germany, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, welcomed the deal as a boost to stability in the West Asia.


I can just picture all the Palestinian supporters squirming. It brings me such joy!!


----------



## Hollie

The Pal-Arab Death Cult, led by Pom Pom flailing Jibril Rajoub has been extolling the virtues of shared mental illness that afflicts so many in the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank.



*So as not to leave any doubt…*










						So as not to leave any doubt… | PMW Analysis
					

The PA extols with limitless praise that murderers of Israelis are “heroes,” “our glory, our honor,” “giants and legends”




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 26, 2020
*The PA extols with limitless praise that murderers of Israelis are “heroes,” “our glory, our honor,” “giants and legends”*




*“O Martyrs, you create our glory, our honor, and life” - Murderers glorified on official PA TV*
*All the terrorist prisoners are “heroic,” “viewed with admiration” - PA Grand Mufti*
*Terrorist murderers - including Hamas founder Yassin - are “giants and legends” - Top PA/Fatah official Jibril Rajoub*


----------



## Hollie

It’s a simple matter to see the effects of the mentally disturbed who spend their miserable lives in a single minded pursuit of dysfunction. 











						Palestinian TV glorifies efforts of terrorists who murdered Israelis
					

The terrorists featured in a PA TV video are responsible for stabbings, murders, attacking IDF soldiers and attempted bombings.




					www.jpost.com
				




The terrorists featured in a PA TV video are responsible for stabbings, murders, attacking IDF soldiers and attempted bombings.


----------



## Hollie

Pal Islamic terrorists won’t get quite the allowance for Islamic terrorist activities they’re accustomed to.










						Israel to seize Palestinian terrorist funds - TV7 Israel News
					

Israeli Alternate Premier and Defense Minister Benny Gantz has signed four orders authorizing the seizure of funds and property that Hamas transferred to families of terrorists in Israel. According to a statement sent by the Israeli Defense Ministry to TV7, the decision comes as part of an...



					www.tv7israelnews.com
				





Israeli Alternate Premier and Defense Minister Benny Gantz has signed four orders authorizing the seizure of funds and property that Hamas transferred
 to families of terrorists in Israel.

According to a statement sent by the Israeli Defense Ministry to TV7, the decision comes as part of an economic campaign against terrorism being waged by the National Bureau for Counter Terror Financing (NBTCF) at the Ministry of Defense, jointly with the Israel Security Agency, IDF Military Intelligence, Israel Police, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other divisions.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Pallywood.


----------



## Hollie

The notion of replacing the Pal leadership is problematic at its core in that there are two versions / entities of that leadership: Abbas and the West Bank syndicate in competition with the Gaza syndicate. That, and you have both syndicates as Islamic terrorist / criminal enterprises which are hierarchies supporting the livelihoods and financial benefits of hundreds at the top of that hierarchical pyramid. They’re not going away while UNRWA and international welfare money is being showered upon them. 











						The growing calls to replace the Palestinian leadership
					

The Palestinians are still being surprised from time to time by local, regional and international calls and statements calling for the 'replacement' of the Palestinian leadership, in conjunction with ...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




The Palestinians are still being surprised from time to time by local, regional and international calls and statements calling for the “replacement” of the Palestinian leadership, in conjunction with the wave of normalisation taking place, as a prelude to bringing in leadership that agrees to this path and joins it. The Palestinians are even more surprised when these calls are made by forums and figures, who until recently, were part of the circles close to the Palestinian leadership and worked with it for many years.


----------



## Hollie

I think it’s important to point out that when the Islamic terrorist talking heads use the “I’m going to...” slogan, it usually means that _someone else_ in the Islamic terrorist territories is going to take one for the gee-had. 










						PA threat to Israel: “I’m taking my enemies down with me… Either [we get] Palestine, or a fire [will burn] generation after generation” | PMW Analysis
					

Claiming that the US and Israel are planning to “redesign” the Middle East via “normalization” and US President Trump’s peace plan, the PA threatened “anarchy, violence, and instability” in an editorial in its official daily.




					palwatch.org
				





*PA threat to Israel: “I’m taking my enemies down with me… Either [we get] Palestine, or a fire [will burn] generation after generation”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 27, 2020
Claiming that the US and Israel are planning to “redesign” the Middle East via “normalization” and US President Trump’s peace plan, the PA threatened “anarchy, violence, and instability” in an editorial in its official daily. The PA lashed out at the Arab states that have recently signed peace agreements with Israel, while stating that “a fire [will burn] generation after generation” unless the PA gets “Palestine”:


> “Let the *American administration and those doing its bidding not be deluded* that it is possible to erase the strong Palestinian number from the equation of the conflict, whether by alternatives (!!) [parentheses in source] or by other means. This is because *the option of ‘I’m taking my enemies down with me’ remains a Palestinian option* regarding which there is no disagreement, if the battle becomes a battle of life or death. The meaning of *‘I’m taking my enemies down with me’* will only be as follows: *Either peace for everyone, or anarchy, violence, and instability.* We have always emphasized, and we still emphasize:* ‘Either [we get] Palestine, or a fire [will burn] generation after generation.’”*





> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_ editorial, Oct. 13, 2020]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews. 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

I think it’s important to point out that when the Islamic terrorist talking heads use the “I’m going to...” slogan, it usually means that _someone else_ in the Islamic terrorist territories is going to take one for the gee-had.
*(COMMENT)*

They don't tend to lead from the front.



Hollie said:


> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 27, 2020
> Claiming that the US and Israel are planning to “redesign” the Middle East via “normalization” and US President Trump’s peace plan, the PA threatened “anarchy, violence, and instability” in an editorial in its official daily. The PA lashed out at the Arab states that have recently signed peace agreements with Israel, while stating that “a fire [will burn] generation after generation” unless the PA gets “Palestine”:
> 
> “Let the *American administration and those doing its bidding not be deluded* that it is possible to erase the strong Palestinian number from the equation of the conflict, whether by alternatives (!!) [parentheses in source] or by other means. This is because *the option of ‘I’m taking my enemies down with me’ remains a Palestinian option* regarding which there is no disagreement, if the battle becomes a battle of life or death. The meaning of *‘I’m taking my enemies down with me’* will only be as follows: *Either peace for everyone, or anarchy, violence, and instability.* We have always emphasized, and we still emphasize:* ‘Either [we get] Palestine, or a fire [will burn] generation after generation.’*



*(COMMENT)*

This is the very classic "Boogeyman Approach."

*COMMENTARY:* The _Boogeyman Approacheth_​*Unlawful Detainer | California Tenant Law*​




						Unlawful Detainer | California Tenant Law
					

Chances are, you’re panicked at the moment because the landlord has started evicting you. You feel like a victim. If you feel intimidated, you’re normal.



					caltenantlaw.com
				


Jun 26, 2020 · Their hallmark is the *boogeyman approach: they’re “coming to get you.” *It’s the old Wizard of Oz trick, but we are *pulling back the curtain. Bullies are cowards*. That’s why they’re bullies. They think like reptiles: *predator or prey*.​ 
The Boogeyman Approach is to use the threat _(make you afraid)_ of a mythical monster _(US and Israel in this case)_ is coming.  It is an attempt to scare little children _(The Arab League/OPEC Nations)_  into assuming certain behaviors _(oppose normalization or hostile political posture)_. In the higher order of functions, it is a form of coercion. Saint Thomas Aquinas suggests, the use of “force and *fear*” in order to restrain those who are “found to be*... *a threat."  In this special case, _The Arab League/OPEC Nations _pose the threat by taking normalization measures that oppose the political positions held by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The HoAP believes that if some key nations take up a posture of normilization with Israel - that will encourage other nations to follow suit.  This will begin to erode some of the key support the HoAP has held to date.

It reminds me of the Jim Henson/Sesame Street Book _Jon Stone_:



​
I must have read that book a hundred times to my oldest daughter.    



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The debilitating psycho-social ailments that are so much a part of the Pali Death Cult continue to be rewarded by the Europeans. They still have this need to fund Islamic terrorist franchises even seeing the direct results of rewarding Islamic terrorism.













						Europe still funds PA radicalization, aware of the consequences
					

The European Union and its member states are the largest single donor bloc financing the PA.




					m.jpost.com
				





A Palestinian child can walk to school along a street named after Abu Jihad, who planned a bus hijacking that killed 38 Israelis, including 13 children, spend the day learning in a school named after Hamas founder Ahmad Yassin, and end the day in a youth center named after terrorist Abu Iyad, responsible for killing the Israeli Olympic athletes in Munich.

“Do you think it is beautiful?” a male host asks an 11-year old girl on a popular Palestinian TV program


----------



## Hollie

Seeing the president of Turkey, an overwhelmingly Sunni majority nation, “normalizing” Pal Islamic Jihad (Shia controlled), may seem like a contradiction. However, it’s just another case of the Sunni and Shia tribes coming together in an uneasy alliance when they share a common enemy in Israel.

Erdogan still laments the loss of the Turkish caliphate. The existence of Israel on lands of the former caliphate appears to be infuriate and embarrass Erdogan. For the time being, he will put aside his revulsion for the heretical Shia if he can use PIJ as a flail against Israel. 











						Turkey seeks to whitewash Palestinian Islamic Jihad as normal 'group'
					

The Palestinian Islamic Jihad is an extremist terror group that is widely seen as an Iranian proxy.




					m.jpost.com
				





As part of Turkey’s ruling party hosts Hamas terrorists, it has also begun to try to normalize Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), an extremist terror group that is widely seen as an Iranian proxy. Israel has put pressure on PIJ in recent years, killing Bahaa Abu el-Atta in November 2019. According to Russian media, Islamic Jihad deputy leader Akram al-Ajouri’s home was also hit with an airstrike last year in Damascus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Being Palestinian, an artist and activist with Amer Zahr*


----------



## Hollie

*Being Palestinian, a Death Cultist* *and* *sociopath*.


----------



## Hollie

I'm reading the ''Peace Partner'' thing is getting more traction. Maybe a boat load of psychotropic drugs to medicate the more excitable gee-had afflicted. 




Palestinian Imam in Al-Aqsa Address: May Allah Kill All Infidels, Cleanse Al-Aqsa of the Jews' Filth


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dareen Tatour*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dareen Tatour*



Convicted for incitement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted for incitement.
Click to expand...

In Israel's kangaroo court.


----------



## Mindful

With meticulous town-by-town research, historian Efraim Karsh concluded in Palestine Betrayed (2010) that there were between 583,121-609,071 refugees in 1947-48. The number of living refugees, all of whom, by definition, are at least 70 years old, is now estimated to be 30,000. Inevitably, their numbers (like the number of living Holocaust survivors) must decline, and eventually disappear, even as their collective memory endures.

It is reliably estimated that by now more than half of Jordan’s population is of Palestinian origin. Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank already live within the historic borders of Palestine. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) has not liberated them. Rather, like UNRWA, it has consigned them to permanent “refugee” status to justify its own existence. It is not Israel, nor the Arab states that have recently bonded with Israel, that have betrayed them. Theirs is a self-inflicted wound that seems unlikely ever to heal.









						The plight of Palestinian ‘refugees’
					

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) has not liberated them. Rather, like UNRWA, it has consigned them to permanent “refugee” status to justify its own existence.




					www.jns.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian family with its own checkpoint - BBC News*


----------



## rylah

*Senior Muslim cleric:
"Israel is not to blame for all our troubles - we are to blame!"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*10 Celebrities Who Are Surprisingly Palestinian*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are Palestinians?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* I think the International Covenant on various Human Rights says it all. And oddly enough, Human RIGHTS is one of P F Tinmore's favorite themes.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Dareen Tatour*


*(COMMENT)*

_*Article 20  •  *__*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*__*  •  A Human Rights Covenant*_
1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. *Any advocacy of* national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes_ *incitement*_ to discrimination,* hostility or violence* shall be prohibited by law.​
There are several other International Laws pertaining to incitement, but I think this one suffices.  EVEN Arab Palestinians must obey the laws.

_


Most Respectfully,
 R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who are Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think the International Covenant on various Human Rights says it all. And oddly enough, Human RIGHTS is one of P F Tinmore's favorite themes.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> _*Article 20  •  *__*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*__*  •  A Human Rights Covenant*_
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. *Any advocacy of* national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes_ *incitement*_ to discrimination,* hostility or violence* shall be prohibited by law.​
> There are several other International Laws pertaining to incitement, but I think this one suffices.  EVEN Arab Palestinians must obey the laws.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...

Resisting oppression  is not violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dareen Tatour*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted for incitement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Israel's kangaroo court.
Click to expand...

That’s another of the cut and paste slogans you use absent the facts.


----------



## Hollie

Resisting the Pali gee-had is not violence


----------



## Mindful

Dr. Nasser Al-Lahham, editor of the independent Ma'an Palestinian news agency, has been very honest lately about his antisemitism, 

Now he is being honest about the purpose of UNRWA "refugee" camps under Palestinian Authority rule.

There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land. But there are roughly 1.4 million people called refugees in UNRWA camps in the West Bank and Gaza. No one ever demands that these camps be dismantled and the people become normal citizens of the Palestinian Authority. 

And very few people ask why that is.

Nasser al-Lahham explains it, though. In his latest editorial, he says that Palestinian UNRWA camps are "the solution, not the problem."

He writes:



> In the West Bank alone, there are about one million three hundred thousand refugees_ [actually, less than 900,000 - EoZ.]_ They paid the blood tax, carried the embers, and followed the path of the revolution four generations, generation after generation, without fatigue or boredom.And without giving up the demand for the right of return, no matter how long it takes.


If you don't quite get it, he is more explicit:


> The camps are not a problem for anyone. It is always the solution. They are the tanks of the revolution and the ships of return. And whoever does not like that, this is his personal problem.


UNRWA refugee camps are weapons. They always have been. Their purpose is to keep Palestinian Arabs in squalid looking living spaces so that the media can sometimes take photos of them and say "poor people, all because of Israel."  There is no desire to dismantle the camps because the misery of the residents is not a problem - it is the goal.

If the camps are weapons, the residents are cannon fodder.









						Palestinian news editor explains why there are still "refugee camps"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who are Palestinians?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* I tend to think that when the poetry promotes, advocate or encourages "redesisance" or urges participation in unlawful behavior it is NOT "non-violent."



RoccoR said:


> There are several other International Laws pertaining to incitement, but I think this one suffices.  EVEN Arab Palestinians must obey the laws.





P F Tinmore said:


> Resisting oppression is not violence.


*(COMMENT)*

The video of her poem posted to YouTube is inspiring and encouraging violence. The language ‘Resist, My People, Resist Them’ with a backdrop of violent action is "incitement."

I will say, that this is a very well done _(very well done)_ piece of inspiring insurgent propaganda.  I don't think she did this on her own.  I think she was exploited by influences that prefer to remain anonymous.
​
The Moslem woman has a role no less important than that of the moslem man 
in the battle of liberation. She is the maker of men. 
Her role in guiding and educating the new generations is great.
​HAMAS Covenant.................................
Article 17................................
Role of Women................................​_


Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Resisting the Pali gee-had is not violence


Do you mean that unarmed civilian Pali gee-had?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resisting the Pali gee-had is not violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that unarmed civilian Pali gee-had?
Click to expand...

No. I mean the armed, Pali Islamic terrorist gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Dr. Nasser Al-Lahham, editor of the independent Ma'an Palestinian news agency, has been very honest lately about his antisemitism,
> 
> Now he is being honest about the purpose of UNRWA "refugee" camps under Palestinian Authority rule.
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land. But there are roughly 1.4 million people called refugees in UNRWA camps in the West Bank and Gaza. No one ever demands that these camps be dismantled and the people become normal citizens of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> And very few people ask why that is.
> 
> Nasser al-Lahham explains it, though. In his latest editorial, he says that Palestinian UNRWA camps are "the solution, not the problem."
> 
> He writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank alone, there are about one million three hundred thousand refugees_ [actually, less than 900,000 - EoZ.]_ They paid the blood tax, carried the embers, and followed the path of the revolution four generations, generation after generation, without fatigue or boredom.And without giving up the demand for the right of return, no matter how long it takes.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't quite get it, he is more explicit:
> 
> 
> 
> The camps are not a problem for anyone. It is always the solution. They are the tanks of the revolution and the ships of return. And whoever does not like that, this is his personal problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA refugee camps are weapons. They always have been. Their purpose is to keep Palestinian Arabs in squalid looking living spaces so that the media can sometimes take photos of them and say "poor people, all because of Israel."  There is no desire to dismantle the camps because the misery of the residents is not a problem - it is the goal.
> 
> If the camps are weapons, the residents are cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian news editor explains why there are still "refugee camps"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
Click to expand...




Mindful said:


> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land.


United Nations General Assembly _Resolution 194_ (III) of 11 December 1948. 11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace ... 





__





						United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948 (Right to Return - Human Rights Watch Policy Page)
					





					www.hrw.org
				




Their homes are not in Gaza or the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

Yet another Pal cleric teaching the virtues of beheading infidels.

Sheikh’en the mosque.

Such a cradle to grave indoctrination of Pali yutes in the ways of Islamic mental disorder has the intended results. 










						Al-Aqsa Mosque Lesson By Sheikh Issam Amira: The Beheading Of French Teacher Paty Is A Great Honor For All Muslims
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Sheikh Issam Amira said during his weekly lesson at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that it is a great ho...




					www.memri.org
				




_Palestinian Islamic scholar Sheikh Issam Amira said during his weekly lesson at the Al-Aqsa Mosque that it is a great honor for the Chechen youth to have beheaded French teacher Samuel Paty and it is a great honor for all of the Muslims as well. He said that the only terrorism permitted according to Islam, is "terrorizing of enemies". The lecture was posted on the Al-Aqsa Call YouTube channel on October 29, 2020, For more about Issam Amira, see MEMRI TV clips no. 7244, 6789, 6114, 5626, 5175, 5041, 5001, 4991, 4901, and 4890._


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Nasser Al-Lahham, editor of the independent Ma'an Palestinian news agency, has been very honest lately about his antisemitism,
> 
> Now he is being honest about the purpose of UNRWA "refugee" camps under Palestinian Authority rule.
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land. But there are roughly 1.4 million people called refugees in UNRWA camps in the West Bank and Gaza. No one ever demands that these camps be dismantled and the people become normal citizens of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> And very few people ask why that is.
> 
> Nasser al-Lahham explains it, though. In his latest editorial, he says that Palestinian UNRWA camps are "the solution, not the problem."
> 
> He writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank alone, there are about one million three hundred thousand refugees_ [actually, less than 900,000 - EoZ.]_ They paid the blood tax, carried the embers, and followed the path of the revolution four generations, generation after generation, without fatigue or boredom.And without giving up the demand for the right of return, no matter how long it takes.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't quite get it, he is more explicit:
> 
> 
> 
> The camps are not a problem for anyone. It is always the solution. They are the tanks of the revolution and the ships of return. And whoever does not like that, this is his personal problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA refugee camps are weapons. They always have been. Their purpose is to keep Palestinian Arabs in squalid looking living spaces so that the media can sometimes take photos of them and say "poor people, all because of Israel."  There is no desire to dismantle the camps because the misery of the residents is not a problem - it is the goal.
> 
> If the camps are weapons, the residents are cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian news editor explains why there are still "refugee camps"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> United Nations General Assembly _Resolution 194_ (III) of 11 December 1948. 11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948 (Right to Return - Human Rights Watch Policy Page)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their homes are not in Gaza or the West Bank.
Click to expand...


You’re still not convincing me of anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resisting the Pali gee-had is not violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that unarmed civilian Pali gee-had?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. I mean the armed, Pali Islamic terrorist gee-had.
Click to expand...

Oh, so you mean the very small minority of the Palestinians who were killed by Israel in the name of self defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Nasser Al-Lahham, editor of the independent Ma'an Palestinian news agency, has been very honest lately about his antisemitism,
> 
> Now he is being honest about the purpose of UNRWA "refugee" camps under Palestinian Authority rule.
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land. But there are roughly 1.4 million people called refugees in UNRWA camps in the West Bank and Gaza. No one ever demands that these camps be dismantled and the people become normal citizens of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> And very few people ask why that is.
> 
> Nasser al-Lahham explains it, though. In his latest editorial, he says that Palestinian UNRWA camps are "the solution, not the problem."
> 
> He writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank alone, there are about one million three hundred thousand refugees_ [actually, less than 900,000 - EoZ.]_ They paid the blood tax, carried the embers, and followed the path of the revolution four generations, generation after generation, without fatigue or boredom.And without giving up the demand for the right of return, no matter how long it takes.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't quite get it, he is more explicit:
> 
> 
> 
> The camps are not a problem for anyone. It is always the solution. They are the tanks of the revolution and the ships of return. And whoever does not like that, this is his personal problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA refugee camps are weapons. They always have been. Their purpose is to keep Palestinian Arabs in squalid looking living spaces so that the media can sometimes take photos of them and say "poor people, all because of Israel."  There is no desire to dismantle the camps because the misery of the residents is not a problem - it is the goal.
> 
> If the camps are weapons, the residents are cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian news editor explains why there are still "refugee camps"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> United Nations General Assembly _Resolution 194_ (III) of 11 December 1948. 11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948 (Right to Return - Human Rights Watch Policy Page)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their homes are not in Gaza or the West Bank.
Click to expand...


“...live at peace”

When do Arabs-Moslems learn that they can live at peace with Jews?

Infidels know what _taqiyya_ is all about.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resisting the Pali gee-had is not violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that unarmed civilian Pali gee-had?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. I mean the armed, Pali Islamic terrorist gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, so you mean the very small minority of the Palestinians who were killed by Israel in the name of self defense.
Click to expand...

No. I mean the Pals who were killed by Israeli soldiers and police in the service of the Islamist gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Nasser Al-Lahham, editor of the independent Ma'an Palestinian news agency, has been very honest lately about his antisemitism,
> 
> Now he is being honest about the purpose of UNRWA "refugee" camps under Palestinian Authority rule.
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land. But there are roughly 1.4 million people called refugees in UNRWA camps in the West Bank and Gaza. No one ever demands that these camps be dismantled and the people become normal citizens of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> And very few people ask why that is.
> 
> Nasser al-Lahham explains it, though. In his latest editorial, he says that Palestinian UNRWA camps are "the solution, not the problem."
> 
> He writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank alone, there are about one million three hundred thousand refugees_ [actually, less than 900,000 - EoZ.]_ They paid the blood tax, carried the embers, and followed the path of the revolution four generations, generation after generation, without fatigue or boredom.And without giving up the demand for the right of return, no matter how long it takes.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't quite get it, he is more explicit:
> 
> 
> 
> The camps are not a problem for anyone. It is always the solution. They are the tanks of the revolution and the ships of return. And whoever does not like that, this is his personal problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA refugee camps are weapons. They always have been. Their purpose is to keep Palestinian Arabs in squalid looking living spaces so that the media can sometimes take photos of them and say "poor people, all because of Israel."  There is no desire to dismantle the camps because the misery of the residents is not a problem - it is the goal.
> 
> If the camps are weapons, the residents are cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian news editor explains why there are still "refugee camps"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> United Nations General Assembly _Resolution 194_ (III) of 11 December 1948. 11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948 (Right to Return - Human Rights Watch Policy Page)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their homes are not in Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “...live at peace”
> 
> When do Arabs-Moslems learn that they can live at peace with Jews?
> 
> Infidels know what _taqiyya_ is all about.
Click to expand...

Have any of them not?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Nasser Al-Lahham, editor of the independent Ma'an Palestinian news agency, has been very honest lately about his antisemitism,
> 
> Now he is being honest about the purpose of UNRWA "refugee" camps under Palestinian Authority rule.
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land. But there are roughly 1.4 million people called refugees in UNRWA camps in the West Bank and Gaza. No one ever demands that these camps be dismantled and the people become normal citizens of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> And very few people ask why that is.
> 
> Nasser al-Lahham explains it, though. In his latest editorial, he says that Palestinian UNRWA camps are "the solution, not the problem."
> 
> He writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank alone, there are about one million three hundred thousand refugees_ [actually, less than 900,000 - EoZ.]_ They paid the blood tax, carried the embers, and followed the path of the revolution four generations, generation after generation, without fatigue or boredom.And without giving up the demand for the right of return, no matter how long it takes.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't quite get it, he is more explicit:
> 
> 
> 
> The camps are not a problem for anyone. It is always the solution. They are the tanks of the revolution and the ships of return. And whoever does not like that, this is his personal problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UNRWA refugee camps are weapons. They always have been. Their purpose is to keep Palestinian Arabs in squalid looking living spaces so that the media can sometimes take photos of them and say "poor people, all because of Israel."  There is no desire to dismantle the camps because the misery of the residents is not a problem - it is the goal.
> 
> If the camps are weapons, the residents are cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian news editor explains why there are still "refugee camps"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no definition of "refugee" that says that one can be a refugee while living in their own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> United Nations General Assembly _Resolution 194_ (III) of 11 December 1948. 11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948 (Right to Return - Human Rights Watch Policy Page)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their homes are not in Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “...live at peace”
> 
> When do Arabs-Moslems learn that they can live at peace with Jews?
> 
> Infidels know what _taqiyya_ is all about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have any of them not?
Click to expand...

You don’t know?


----------



## Hollie

It’s all so simple in the Pal Death Cult.

*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: Islamic State Would Have Strategy of Jihad to Convert Infidels to Islam*


----------



## Hollie

In today's edition of _Pali Delusions That Pass for Perfectly Normal Islamic Thought_, the the Fatah Mini-Caliphate will capture Israel... or so they think.


*All of Israel is “Palestine” in Fatah message*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 3, 2020





In a recent Facebook post, Abbas’ Fatah Movement made it clear what it means when it refers to ”Palestine” – it includes the entire State of Israel.
As part of its protests against the recent normalization agreements between Israel and the UAE, Bahrain, and Sudan – and the fear that more Arab states will follow– Fatah posted the image above with four repetitions of the PA map of “Palestine” that includes all of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In today's edition of _Pali Delusions That Pass for Perfectly Normal Islamic Thought_, the the Fatah Mini-Caliphate will capture Israel... or so they think.
> 
> 
> *All of Israel is “Palestine” in Fatah message*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 3, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent Facebook post, Abbas’ Fatah Movement made it clear what it means when it refers to ”Palestine” – it includes the entire State of Israel.
> As part of its protests against the recent normalization agreements between Israel and the UAE, Bahrain, and Sudan – and the fear that more Arab states will follow– Fatah posted the image above with four repetitions of the PA map of “Palestine” that includes all of Israel.


Geographically correct.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Iman Jodeh, a Palestinian-American politician, was elected to the US House of Representatives in Colorado’s 41st district. Jodeh joins Muslim-American Congresswomen Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, who were both re-elected in their constituencies


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversation with Iman Jodeh - Progressive Democrat for Colorado House, District 41*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In today's edition of _Pali Delusions That Pass for Perfectly Normal Islamic Thought_, the the Fatah Mini-Caliphate will capture Israel... or so they think.
> 
> 
> *All of Israel is “Palestine” in Fatah message*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 3, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent Facebook post, Abbas’ Fatah Movement made it clear what it means when it refers to ”Palestine” – it includes the entire State of Israel.
> As part of its protests against the recent normalization agreements between Israel and the UAE, Bahrain, and Sudan – and the fear that more Arab states will follow– Fatah posted the image above with four repetitions of the PA map of “Palestine” that includes all of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Geographically correct.
Click to expand...

You don’t know your history.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Iman Jodeh, a Palestinian-American politician, was elected to the US House of Representatives in Colorado’s 41st district. Jodeh joins Muslim-American Congresswomen Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, who were both re-elected in their constituencies


Fine company with hacks and crooks Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar.


----------



## Hollie

I get a chuckle when Pal Islamic “scholars” launch themselves into screeching tirades about “conquering” Europe. The era of Islamist settler colonialism is ended.

These folks can’t take care of themselves so conquering Europe is a bit of a stretch. 


*Palestinian Scholar at Al-Aqsa Rally: Soon We Will Conquer Paris and Rome, Rule Europe with Islam*


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pali” have sided with a brutish, unreformed politico-religious ideology that has remained static since the death of the Arab warlord who invented it.


*PA sides with Islamists following 2 French beheadings, 4 murders 









						PA sides with Islamists following 2 French beheadings, 4 murders | PMW Analysis
					

The official Palestinian news sources have not published condemnations of the murders of innocent French Christians by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas or any other PA leader.




					palwatch.org
				



*
Itamar Marcus  | Nov 1, 2020
France is on its highest terror alert in many years following a series of terror attacks by Muslims, and the PA has chosen to be on the side of the terrorists.

The terror attacks started after a French teacher who showed his class cartoons of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad as an example of freedom of expression, was beheaded by a Muslim. Reacting to the murder in a Paris suburb, President of France Emmanuel Macron spoke in defense of freedom of expression, and said: “Islam is a religion that is experiencing a crisis across the world.”  He  also called the murder “a typical Islamist terrorist attack.” [The Guardian, Oct. 18, 2020] Subsequently another Muslim murdered three Christians in a church in Nice, one of them an elderly woman whom he beheaded. A few days later, yet another terrorist shot and injured a priest as he was leaving church. In addition, Muslims are demonstrating against France and against cartoons portraying Islam’s Prophet Muhammad across the world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is what Palestinians consider an "achievement"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality that is “Pali Syndrome”, a gate is named in honor of the death and misery caused by Pali terrorists. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




*Palestinian university’s new gate named after mastermind of Munich Olympics massacre*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 6, 2020

*Palestinian youth admire terrorist who planned Munich Olympics massacre of Israeli athletes*






*PA school and sports center also bear the name of the Black September leader*
What the PA has taught kids for decades has registered: Terrorists and murderers of innocent Israelis are heroes.
In the latest proof of this, the Student Union Council at Palestine Polytechnic University gifted the institution with the gate seen in the photo above, named after Salah Khalaf “Abu Iyad” – the terrorist who headed the Black September terror organization and planned the Munich Olympics massacre, in which 11 Israeli athletes were murdered in 1972.
During the inauguration ceremony, the chairman of the Student Union Council Saif Al-Muhtasib stated that the students are “proud” of the terrorist leader:


> *Palestine Polytechnic University Student Union Council Chairman Saif Al-Muhtasib: *“We have built this structure *to commemorate the name of late Martyr Salah Khalaf ‘Abu Iyad.’ We are proud* of the distinguished leaders whose bodies are no more, but whose spirit remains among us.”
> [Facebook page of Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki, Oct. 18, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

The Islamist gee-had. Nothing to see here. Move along.










						France tightens security after Nice attack, protests flare in parts of Muslim world
					

France stepped up security nationwide on Friday to guard against Islamist attacks after the fatal stabbings at a church in Nice, while protests flared in parts of the Middle East, Asia and Africa over French caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. This sounds, you know, like _apartheid_™️ or something. 



*PMW: For PA, peace means a Judenfrei state, ethnically cleaned of Jews*









						PMW: For PA, peace means a Judenfrei state, ethnically cleaned of Jews
					

The Palestinian narrative is negating historical fact and rejects any pragmatic approach that Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem are all part of the Jewish homeland.




					www.jpost.com
				




For the Palestinian leadership, peace with Israel can only be achieved in a “judenfrei” Palestinian state – a state free of Jews, ethnically cleansed of the over 800,000 Jews who now live in West Bank and Jerusalem, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) has said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*After 70 years, who are the Palestinian refugees?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *After 70 years, who are the Palestinian refugees?*




It’s too bad that Egypt, Syria and Lebanon won’t take them back.


----------



## Hollie

It was bound to happen. As the eternally aggrieved Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Palestinians” spent decades building Islamic terrorist / welfare fraud franchises, the Arab world has decided that they have self interests beyond whiners and losers. 











						Even at the UN, pandering on Palestine is slowly losing its luster
					

The UN General Assembly just approved seven ridiculous anti-Israel resolutions, but that’s same-old, same-old. What’s new is that support dropped markedly. The pander-on-Palestinians game is losing…




					nypost.com
				





The UN General Assembly just approved seven ridiculous anti-Israel resolutions, but that’s same-old, same-old. What’s new is that support dropped markedly.

The pander-on-Palestinians game is losing its luster, thanks in part to the Trump administration’s bold diplomacy.


----------



## Hollie

_Pal’istanians Protest™️_

It has become a slogan for the eternally aggrieved Arabs-Moslems.











						Palestine protests Malawi plan on embassy in Jerusalem
					

Malawi’s top diplomat said east southern nation will open embassy to Israel in Jerusalem by summer of 2021 - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




Palestinian president's special envoy Hanan Jarrar arrived in Malawi Wednesday to hand over a letter of protest from Mahmoud Abbas on the East African country’s intention to open its embassy in Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

Take the money.... don’t take the money.

Mahmoud will need a tune up on his presidential jet at some point.

Take the money. If nothing else, the PA can give the money to those in their islamic terrorist syndicate.











						Palestinian Authority to resume accepting tax money collected by Israel
					

Palestinian official later denies reports, insisting Ramallah will continue to refuse funds until Jerusalem agrees to its demands such as easing restrictions on movement of goods and people between West Bank and Gaza Strip




					www.ynetnews.com
				




Palestinian official later denies reports, insisting Ramallah will continue to refuse funds until Jerusalem agrees to its demands such as easing restrictions on movement of goods and people between West Bank and Gaza Strip


----------



## Hollie

I’m afraid there is some greed, envy and resentment being expressed by “Former high-ranking Palestinian Authority officials” who are criticizing Mahmoud “*The Conqueror*” Abbas. He has, after all, followed in the footsteps of the Islamic terrorist crooks and welfare fraud syndicates that are a part of the legacy surrounding “The World’s Most Successful Terrorist”; Yassir Arafat.

Mahmoud is simply building his own competing legacy. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/10/20/left-alone-on-the-field-abbas-is-refusing-to-change/
		


Former high-ranking Palestinian Authority officials have been voicing pointed criticism of the "Palestinians'" failures these past 20 years, but the real target of their disapproval is unmistakable – PA President Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF: *These incessant insertions of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Propaganda Videos is more than I can absorb. I have all but quit watching them. Is all the discussion participants can do is insert videos, they really aren't in a discussion.



Hollie said:


> I’m afraid there is some greed, envy and resentment being expressed by “Former high-ranking Palestinian Authority officials” who are criticizing Mahmoud “*The Conqueror*” Abbas. He has, after all, followed in the footsteps of the Islamic terrorist crooks and welfare fraud syndicates that are a part of the legacy surrounding “The World’s Most Successful Terrorist”; Yassir Arafat.
> 
> Mahmoud is simply building his own competing legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/10/20/left-alone-on-the-field-abbas-is-refusing-to-change/
> 
> 
> 
> Former high-ranking Palestinian Authority officials have been voicing pointed criticism of the "Palestinians'" failures these past 20 years, but the real target of their disapproval is unmistakable – PA President Mahmoud Abbas.


*(COMMENT)*

I've seen more than one tyrant skimmed and looted money and stash it away, along with extra travel documents.

*BCCI* actually means the Bank of Credit and Commerce International; but in the international law enforcement community and the various intelligence/counterintelligence agencies, it is affectionately known generically as:  The Bank of Crooks and Criminals International (BCCI).  It is a rather large franchise and is legitimately tied into the global electronic transfer system.  The money is always on the move and in electronic form, BCCI launders money through the transfer of value from one holding company to another.  In about three trips around the world, dirty drug money, and stolen treasury transfers, as well as "lines of credit" established based on the deposit of jewels, gems, gold, and sliver.  It can also arrange the liquidation of merchandise and commodities _(both real and imaginary)_.  Even some of the more famous intelligence and security agencies and special access programs use BCCI (Cayman, Luxembourg, Gambling Cruise Ships, etc).   Yassar Arafat has his stash and you can bet that this retired terrorist and Islamic Criminals have their stash as well.  These static stashes are sometimes referred to as a "dragon hoard."

•  Khaled Meshaal Net Worth: $2.6 billion​•  Mahmoud Abbas Net Worth. $550 Million​•  Yassar Arafat Total Net Worth at the moment 2020 year – is about $75,6 Million.​​_


Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: *These incessant insertions of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Propaganda Videos is more than I can absorb. I have all but quit watching them. Is all the discussion participants can do is insert videos, they really aren't in a discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m afraid there is some greed, envy and resentment being expressed by “Former high-ranking Palestinian Authority officials” who are criticizing Mahmoud “*The Conqueror*” Abbas. He has, after all, followed in the footsteps of the Islamic terrorist crooks and welfare fraud syndicates that are a part of the legacy surrounding “The World’s Most Successful Terrorist”; Yassir Arafat.
> 
> Mahmoud is simply building his own competing legacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/10/20/left-alone-on-the-field-abbas-is-refusing-to-change/
> 
> 
> 
> Former high-ranking Palestinian Authority officials have been voicing pointed criticism of the "Palestinians'" failures these past 20 years, but the real target of their disapproval is unmistakable – PA President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I've seen more than one tyrant skimmed and looted money and stash it away, along with extra travel documents.
> 
> *BCCI* actually means the Bank of Credit and Commerce International; but in the international law enforcement community and the various intelligence/counterintelligence agencies, it is affectionately known generically as:  The Bank of Crooks and Criminals International (BCCI).  It is a rather large franchise and is legitimately tied into the global electronic transfer system.  The money is always on the move and in electronic form, BCCI launders money through the transfer of value from one holding company to another.  In about three trips around the world, dirty drug money, and stolen treasury transfers, as well as "lines of credit" established based on the deposit of jewels, gems, gold, and sliver.  It can also arrange the liquidation of merchandise and commodities _(both real and imaginary)_.  Even some of the more famous intelligence and security agencies and special access programs use BCCI (Cayman, Luxembourg, Gambling Cruise Ships, etc).   Yassar Arafat has his stash and you can bet that this retired terrorist and Islamic Criminals have their stash as well.  These static stashes are sometimes referred to as a "dragon hoard."
> 
> •  Khaled Meshaal Net Worth: $2.6 billion​•  Mahmoud Abbas Net Worth. $550 Million​•  Yassar Arafat Total Net Worth at the moment 2020 year – is about $75,6 Million.​​_
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...


World’s richest terrorist organizations (2018 tally).









						The Richest Terror Organizations in the World
					

What Are The Richest Terror Organizations in the World? #money #terrorism #isis #cryptocurrency




					www.forbes.com
				





#3 – Hamas

Total annual income: $700 million

Last June marked tenth anniversary of the Hamas movement’s control over the people of Gaza. Looking back, it seems there is no cause to celebrate.


----------



## Hollie

An obvious result of glorifying a murderous psychopathy.









						Palestinian TV glorifies efforts of terrorists who murdered Israelis
					

The terrorists featured in a PA TV video are responsible for stabbings, murders, attacking IDF soldiers and attempted bombings.




					www.jpost.com
				




The terrorists featured in a PA TV video are responsible for stabbings, murders, attacking IDF soldiers and attempted bombings.










						Psychopathy: cognitive and neural dysfunction
					

Psychopathy is a developmental disorder marked by emotional deficits and an increased risk for antisocial behavior. It is not equivalent to the diagnosis Antisocial Personality Disorder, which concentrates only on the increased risk for antisocial behavior ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				



Psychopathy is a developmental disorder marked by emotional deficits and an increased risk for antisocial behavior. It is not equivalent to the diagnosis Antisocial Personality Disorder, which concentrates only on the increased risk for antisocial behavior and not a specific cause—ie, the reduced empathy and guilt that constitutes the emotional deficit.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


When Arab-Moslem policy involves offensive gee-had, welfare fraud, proposes the slaughter of those in an established state, promotes criminal activity, etc., etc., I find no good reason to amplify such antisocial policies.


----------



## Hollie

More of the hysterical diatribes that typify what passes for Pali psychopathy. 










						PA: Israel was created as payback for “the defeats of the Crusaders” | PMW Analysis
					

Zionism has “control over tools of leadership, money, communications, security, and intelligence in large states and world powers”




					palwatch.org
				





*PA: Israel was created as payback for “the defeats of the Crusaders”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 8, 2020
*Two op-eds in the official PA daily:*

*Balfour Declaration was “crime against humanity”*
*Israel – “the foreign colonialist body” - was “planted” to serve “robbery and theft of the resources of the Arab nation”*
*The creation of Israel was part of plan “to target [the Arab nation’s] interests, rights, resources, independence, sovereignty, and progress”*
*Zionism has “control over tools of leadership, money, communications, security, and intelligence in large states and world powers”*
Among the Palestinian reactions on the anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, two op-eds in the official PA daily repeated several libels about Israelis/Zionists/Jews. Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, who is a regular columnist for the paper, added the bizarre claim that the establishment of Israel was Christian Europe’s pay back for the defeats suffered by the Crusaders.
He also claimed that the creation of Israel was only for the purpose of destroying the Arab world by stealing its resources– a PA libel Palestinian Media Watch has documented numerous times:


> “The beginning of *the robbery and theft of the resources of the Arab nation and its peoples took place in Palestine… the moment the foreign colonialist body – in other words, the State of Israel – was planted in the land of the Palestinian people…
> This was meant to target [the Arab nation’s] interests, rights, resources, independence, sovereignty, and progress, and also to settle historical accounts with the Arabs and Muslims in response to the defeats of the Crusaders – and not in order to defend the believers of the Jewish religion or [the Zionists] who used them for their purposes.”*
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 3, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Obviously, Abbas would like nothing more than than his Obama era welfare fraud money flowing again. 











						Palestinian Leaders Are Banking on Biden Win Next Week (Published 2020)
					

A Biden victory could bring economic relief for Palestinians and friendlier relations with Washington, though not a return to 2016. A Trump win? They’d rather not think about it.




					www.nytimes.com
				





RAMALLAH, West Bank — The Palestinians are counting on a Trump defeat next Tuesday. They don’t even want to think about Plan B.

An end to the Trump administration would give the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, a face-saving chance to reverse a self-inflicted economic hardship that has been punishing his people for months.


----------



## Hollie

Yet, for some reason unknown to me, we in the west continue to shower murderous psychopaths with welfare money.




*Cash rewards for murdering Israeli children: Over $371,000 paid by the PA for murder of 4 children and 9 adults*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 10, 2020









						Cash rewards for murdering Israeli children: Over $371,000 paid by the PA for murder of 4 children and 9 adults | PMW Analysis
					

The PA has paid the terrorist responsible for the murder of 13 Israelis, including 4 children, no less than 892,200 shekels ($264,358/€222,630)




					palwatch.org
				




*Today is the 18th anniversary of the brutal murder of young mother and her 2 children aged 4 and 5*
*The PA has paid the terrorist responsible for the murder of 13 Israelis, including 4 children, no less than 892,200 shekels ($264,358/€222,630)  *
*The PA has paid each of the families of two dead terrorists involved in these murders almost 200,000 shekels*
*The PA views terrorist murderers as its “soldiers” and as the “best” of the Palestinian people*



Today is the 18th anniversary of the brutal murder of five Israelis in Kibbutz Metzer on November 10, 2002. Among those murdered were Revital Ohayun and her two infant children, five-year-old Matan and four-year-old Noam.


----------



## Hollie

Rashida Tlaib is using the _racist_ slogan like it's a bloody truncheon.









						Rep. Tlaib Says She ‘Won’t Be Silent’ After Clash With Centrist Democrats, As Progressives Circulate Memo Calling Them All ‘Racist’
					

Democratic Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib criticized centrists for their apprehension toward supporting the Black Lives Matter movement and  defunding the police.




					dailycaller.com
				





Democratic Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib criticized centrists for their apprehension toward supporting the Black Lives Matter movement and defunding the police after it appeared voters were not receptive to these messages, Politico reported.

After House Democrats lost several House seats, moderates blamed their liberal colleagues during a private conference call for touting far-left views that made it easy for Republicans to portray them all as radical leftists. Tlaib clashed with her colleagues, accusing them of only being interested in appealing to White people in the suburbs, according to the Washington Post. Tlaib said she refuses to be silent about her views, even if they may alienate voters.


----------



## Hollie

Throwing welfare money at Islamic terrorists.



*Fatah indifferent to murder of Israeli civilian, vows to rebuild murderer’s demolished house









						Fatah indifferent to murder of Israeli civilian, vows to rebuild murderer’s demolished house | PMW Analysis
					

PA has rebuilt house of murderer of 2 several times




					palwatch.org
				



*Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 11, 2020

*PA has rebuilt house of murderer of 2 several times*
Israeli citizen Rabbi Shai Ohayon was stabbed to death in Petah Tikva, 10 km. from Tel Aviv, on Aug. 26, 2020 by a Palestinian who had a permit to work in Israel. Terrorist murderer Dweikat was arrested near the scene of the attack and has confessed to the murder. As is Israeli policy, Israel demolished the murderer’s home, as this has proven to be an effective deterrent against terror and has saved lives.
Unsurprisingly, Abbas’ Fatah Movement is completely indifferent to the fact that an Israeli civilian has been murdered, and has vowed to rebuild the murderer’s house:







> *Posted text: *“Fatah Movement Deputy Chairman Mahmoud Al-Aloul: *‘There is no home that the occupation has destroyed and we have not rebuilt.* We will rebuild the home of prisoner Khalil Dweikat (i.e., terrorist, murdered 1) in the village of Rujeib.”
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Nov. 2, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

I always get a chuckle reading articles about the bloated and wasteful welfare money pit that is UNRWA and the money-grabbing charlatans who head the endless committees, commissions, agencies, bureaus etc., that have a piece of that money pit.











						UNRWA Commissioner-General makes official visit to Syria, reviews Palestine refugee massive humanitarian needs - Syrian Arab Republic
					

News and Press Release in English on Syrian Arab Republic and 1 other country about Education, Food and Nutrition, Epidemic and more; published on 4 Nov 2020 by UNRWA




					reliefweb.int
				





The Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), Mr. Philippe Lazzarini, made his first official visit to Syria on 26-29 October 2020.

During his visit, he held meetings with a number of Syrian government officials, including Dr. Faisal Miqdad, the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates, Dr. Salwa al-Abdallah, the Minister of Social Affairs and Labour, and Mr. Ali Mustafa, the Director-General of the General Authority for Palestinian Arab Refugees (GAPAR). Mr. Lazzarini visited the Sbeineh and Yarmouk camps for Palestine refugees in Damascus to take a closer look at their situation and at the services that UNRWA provides within a context of the protracted crisis.


----------



## Mindful

On the roof of an apartment block in one of Gaza’s most crowded cities, two lion cubs prowl among the water tanks and dine on slaughtered chickens as children take selfies.

It is a bizarre sight even in a war-scarred Gaza Strip that has become accustomed to the unaccustomed.

The 75-day-old male and female cubs, Fathy and Filisteen (Palestine), have become playthings for bored neighbours of their owner, bakery owner Naseem Abu Jamea, though animal experts expressed concern on hearing of the situation.

“It is my hobby, I was attached to them and I love to have them,” Abu Jamea, 27, told Reuters. “I hope one day I can have my own zoo.”

Abu Jamea said he got the cubs from a local zoo but declined to give further details.

No doubt the same haters who attack Israel for things like treating animals well will not utter a word about this horrid animal abuse.



> As his nephews, brothers and neighbours’ children played with the animals, he dismissed the risks.
> “When you raise them as babies, a harmony will grow between both of you and (they) will not hurt you,” he said.


Note how the new “owner” is only thinking about his own welfare, and not that of those he is abusing.

Sounds typical of the attitude of many Gazans also towards Israelis.

As does this



> The lion cubs’ neighbours seemed untroubled.
> “I am not afraid. On the contrary, we are proud that we have lions in our area,” said Wissam Al-Qarra.


But it wouldn’t be a Reuters report without trying to blame Israel



> Even before the coronavirus pandemic, they had to contend with an Israeli-led land, sea and air blockade, which controls the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza, a 360 sq. km coastal strip run by the Islamist militant group Hamas.
> Israel says the closures are to protect it from militant attacks. Palestinians say they amount to collective punishment.


Note also no mention of Egypt, which is a giveaway this is purely anti-Israel bias at work.

As I’ve shown before, this abuse of animals is all on them. We have even tried to help the animals’ plight.

Meanwhile



> “Palestinian law does not permit raising wild animals in people’s homes,” he told Reuters.


Unfortunately, with so many Gazan children being indoctrinated by Hamas and other terrorist groups, this is not true.









						The Gazan Preoccupation With Animal Abuse Continues
					

A palestinian baker keeps lion cubs as pets on a Gaza rooftop




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

The Blackhole where not even light accountability escapes- has run out of its Islamic terrorist maintenance funds.









						UN agency for Palestine refugees runs out of money as COVID-19 spreads
					

The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNWRA) has run out of cash on hand to keep vital services going amid the worsening health emergency, UNRWA spokesperson Tamara Alrifai told a regular UN press briefing in Geneva on Tuesday.




					news.un.org
				




10 November 2020

The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNWRA) has run out of cash on hand to keep vital services going amid the worsening health emergency, UNRWA spokesperson Tamara Alrifai told a regular UN press briefing in Geneva on Tuesday.






Odd! Money seems to flow like water to these Islamic terrorist enablers.









						UNRWA Launches 2020 Budget Appeal for US$ 1.4 Billion | UNRWA
					

The Acting Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), Christian Saunders, today called for a minimum of US$ 1.4 billion to fund the Agency’s essential services and assistance, including life-saving humanitarian aid and...




					www.unrwa.org
				









No matter how much money is showered on the Islamic gee-had, it's never enough. 









						UNRWA in Urgent Need of $130m to Deal with Budget Deficit
					

UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) urgently needs $130 million to cover its budget deficit for this year.




					www.palestinechronicle.com
				




The Islamic gee-had runs on money for weapons and ammo.


----------



## Hollie

It’s heartwarming when dictators find common ground for their authoritarianism. 



*Fatah lauds former dictator Saddam Hussein*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 13, 2020

*Saddam Hussein was one of “the great people”*
*“The hawk of the Arabs”*
While most of the world had already denounced former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein as a cruel dictator long before he was executed in 2006, the Palestinian Authority clings to him as one of its heroes and role models.
Abbas’ Fatah praised Saddam Hussein as “one of the great people” and “the Hawk of the Arabs,” posting a photo of him and former PLO and PA Chairman Yasser Arafat:






> *Posted text:* “A very *rare picture of the great people,*
> M-artyr, leader, and symbol [former PLO Chairman and PA President] Yasser Arafat, and *the Hawk of the Arabs [Iraqi President] Saddam Hussein.*
> May Allah wrap them in His mercies and place them in the expanses of Paradise.
> You will remain in the hearts of the free people”
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture, Oct. 27, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz, that long awaited reconciliation with the anticipation of Hamas and Fatah talking walks in the park while holding hands is on hold for now.

Mahmoud “_The Decree Maker_” Abbas apparently wants to see who Joe Bidens’ preferred Islamic terrorist franchise is going to be. 










						Biden's victory spells doom for Palestinian unity talks
					

Mahmoud Abbas to shelve Fatah-Hamas reconciliation and slated elections, expecting pressure on the PA to be relieved with Trump's exit




					www.middleeasteye.net
				





A presidential decree necessary to call Palestinian elections will not be issued by Mahmoud Abbas any time soon the president has told close associates, with Joe Biden’s victory in the US changing the political equation for Fatah.

Fatah and leftist sources close to the Palestinian presidency told Middle East Eye that Abbas currently prefers to postpone reconciliation steps with Hamas, and to wait for Biden's approach to the Palestinian cause to become clear.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Pal’istanian cause is better left to the capable hands of the two, competing Islamic terrorist franchises who have done such wonderful  management so far. 



*Fatah, Hamas Officials out at UAE over Deal with Israel: Take Your Hands Off the Palestinian Cause!*


----------



## Hollie

Those _poor, oppsessed Palis™️_
They may have to struggle through the indignation of being forced to benefit  from US / Israeli efforts to normalize relations with Arab States.









						Palestinians Torn as Israel Seeks Gulf Tourists in Jerusalem
					

When the United Arab Emirates agreed to normalize relations with Israel, the Palestinians decried the move as a "betrayal" of both Jerusalem, where they hope to establish the capital of their future state, and the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, the city's holiest Muslim site. But...




					www.newsmax.com
				





JERUSALEM (AP) — When the United Arab Emirates agreed to normalize relations with Israel, the Palestinians decried the move as a "betrayal" of both Jerusalem, where they hope to establish the capital of their future state, and the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, the city's holiest Muslim site. 

But with Israel now courting wealthy Gulf tourists and establishing new air links to the major travel hubs of Dubai and Abu Dhabi, Palestinians in east Jerusalem could soon see a tourism boon after months in which the coronavirus transformed the Holy City into a ghost town.




Horrible! 

Let’s hope the Pals do the right thing and Boycott!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Jenna Gee-had, another victim of Islamic child abuse.


----------



## Hollie

The Pals are apparently upset that Mike Pompeo plans on visiting an Israeli settlement as part of a planned visit. I suppose they should organize another boycott... maybe a flotilla.










						Palestinian PM: Pompeo visit would set ‘dangerous precedent’
					

Mike Pompeo next week could become the first US secretary of state to visit an illegal Israeli settlement.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





 Palestinian premier Mohammed Shtayyeh has said that a planned visit next week by the US secretary of state to an illegal Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank would set a “dangerous precedent”.

Mike Pompeo would become the first US secretary of state to visit one of the settlements, which are considered illegal by most of the international community.


----------



## Hollie

In case you didn’t already know this...

Yes. The Palis are worldwide defenders of freedom and fighters of (Islamic) terrorism. 










						PA hypocrisy: We fight terror around the world, unless it is against Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian who helped Israeli terror victims received death threats, was fired, called “a traitor,” and had to flee the PA




					palwatch.org
				




*PA hypocrisy: We fight terror around the world, unless it is against Israelis*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 15, 2020

*PA awarded medal to Palestinian who helped victim of shooting in Austria*
*Palestinian who helped Israeli terror victims received death threats, was fired, called “a traitor,” and had to flee the PA*
The PA claims it is against terror everywhere. But there is one exception: When Palestinian terror targets Israelis.

Two similar incidents illustrate this.

When a Palestinian man recently helped a victim during a terror attack in Austria he was awarded a medal by PA Chairman Abbas, and everyone sang his praise.

But when another Palestinian and his wife helped Israeli terror victims who had been shot at in their car, the man received death threats, was fired, and was ostracized by Palestinian society.

Earlier this month, Osama Khaled Joudeh helped an Austrian police officer who was shot and wounded in the recent shooting attack in Vienna by an Islamist terrorist. PA Chairman Abbas reacted by awarding him a medal and praising him, while he emphasized that the Palestinian people as a whole “fights against terror”:


> “The president expressed his appreciation for Joudeh’s courage, which served as an example for the young Palestinians who are defending the noble values and expressing *our people’s opposition to all forms of terror. The president said:* ‘You give us pride, and enable us to tell the world that *this is the Palestinian people, which is fighting against terror* and defending people. Therefore, we have decided to award you with a medal of honor as a sign of appreciation for your courage.’”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 5, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

I tend to believe the EU understands that portions, perhaps large portions of of their donated welfare money enriches the Islamic terrorist cabals in the Pal territories.


*Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going?*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 16, 2020









						Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going? | PMW Analysis
					

Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid.




					palwatch.org
				




In May 2020, Palestinian Authority Chairman, Mahmoud Abbas, declared that the PA and the PLO no longer see themselves bound by the agreements signed with Israel. Implementing this decision, the PA has refused to accept tax monies that Israel collects and transfers to the PA. These funds provide for half of the PA’s annual budget. The unilateral decision to refuse the tax income has once again plunged the PA into a self-made financial crisis. In order to deal with the ramifications of the decision, the PA decided to cut the salaries of all of its civil servants by 50%.

Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid. Of that aid, over 90 million Euro was given to the PA, designated, according to EU press statements, for the payment of salaries to “civil servants mostly in the health and education sector in the West Bank.”

In November 2019, European Member of Parliament Carmen Avram submitted written questions to the European Commission seeking to ensure that the EU aid to the PA was not being used to fund the payment of salaries to terrorists. The March 2020 response of the commission explained the mechanism by which the EU ostensibly tracks the final beneficiaries of the EU aid saying:
“The Palestinian Authority provides a list of eligible beneficiaries which is checked by EU-contracted independent auditors against a list of eligibility criteria as well as a second check of individuals considered to be associated with any terrorist organisations or activities. No payments are made to any beneficiaries falling within these categories.” 
According to this answer, the EU thinks it knows exactly which civil servants are the recipients of the EU aid.
Since the EU is providing a considerable amount of funding to these specific civil servants, one would assume that their salaries have not been affected by the PA decision to cut all salaries. But this does not appear to be the case.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I tend to believe the EU understands that portions, perhaps large portions of of their donated welfare money enriches the Islamic terrorist cabals in the Pal territories.
> 
> 
> *Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going?*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 16, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going? | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In May 2020, Palestinian Authority Chairman, Mahmoud Abbas, declared that the PA and the PLO no longer see themselves bound by the agreements signed with Israel. Implementing this decision, the PA has refused to accept tax monies that Israel collects and transfers to the PA. These funds provide for half of the PA’s annual budget. The unilateral decision to refuse the tax income has once again plunged the PA into a self-made financial crisis. In order to deal with the ramifications of the decision, the PA decided to cut the salaries of all of its civil servants by 50%.
> 
> Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid. Of that aid, over 90 million Euro was given to the PA, designated, according to EU press statements, for the payment of salaries to “civil servants mostly in the health and education sector in the West Bank.”
> 
> In November 2019, European Member of Parliament Carmen Avram submitted written questions to the European Commission seeking to ensure that the EU aid to the PA was not being used to fund the payment of salaries to terrorists. The March 2020 response of the commission explained the mechanism by which the EU ostensibly tracks the final beneficiaries of the EU aid saying:
> “The Palestinian Authority provides a list of eligible beneficiaries which is checked by EU-contracted independent auditors against a list of eligibility criteria as well as a second check of individuals considered to be associated with any terrorist organisations or activities. No payments are made to any beneficiaries falling within these categories.”
> According to this answer, the EU thinks it knows exactly which civil servants are the recipients of the EU aid.
> Since the EU is providing a considerable amount of funding to these specific civil servants, one would assume that their salaries have not been affected by the PA decision to cut all salaries. But this does not appear to be the case.


The terrorist label is a fascist construct.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to believe the EU understands that portions, perhaps large portions of of their donated welfare money enriches the Islamic terrorist cabals in the Pal territories.
> 
> 
> *Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going?*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 16, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going? | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In May 2020, Palestinian Authority Chairman, Mahmoud Abbas, declared that the PA and the PLO no longer see themselves bound by the agreements signed with Israel. Implementing this decision, the PA has refused to accept tax monies that Israel collects and transfers to the PA. These funds provide for half of the PA’s annual budget. The unilateral decision to refuse the tax income has once again plunged the PA into a self-made financial crisis. In order to deal with the ramifications of the decision, the PA decided to cut the salaries of all of its civil servants by 50%.
> 
> Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid. Of that aid, over 90 million Euro was given to the PA, designated, according to EU press statements, for the payment of salaries to “civil servants mostly in the health and education sector in the West Bank.”
> 
> In November 2019, European Member of Parliament Carmen Avram submitted written questions to the European Commission seeking to ensure that the EU aid to the PA was not being used to fund the payment of salaries to terrorists. The March 2020 response of the commission explained the mechanism by which the EU ostensibly tracks the final beneficiaries of the EU aid saying:
> “The Palestinian Authority provides a list of eligible beneficiaries which is checked by EU-contracted independent auditors against a list of eligibility criteria as well as a second check of individuals considered to be associated with any terrorist organisations or activities. No payments are made to any beneficiaries falling within these categories.”
> According to this answer, the EU thinks it knows exactly which civil servants are the recipients of the EU aid.
> Since the EU is providing a considerable amount of funding to these specific civil servants, one would assume that their salaries have not been affected by the PA decision to cut all salaries. But this does not appear to be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> The terrorist label is a fascist construct.
Click to expand...

Apologists for Islamic terrorism are fascists.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose we will have to wait and see if the senior leadership of the PFLP gets younger as the current leadership becomes “the formerly breathing senior leadership.”












						Israel designates PFLP’s student wing a terror group
					

IDF general accuses the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine of 'recruiting young men to commit acts of terrorism'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Palestinian officials on Thursday denounced a decision by Israel to brand the student branch of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine as a terrorist organization.

Israel, the United States and the European Union consider the PFLP to be a terror group.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, I don’t know, but somehow, for some reason, Jordan doesn’t seem real keen on the idea of forgive and forget regarding that little dalliance called Black September. Ultimately, why would Jordan want the financial, political and social burden of their former subjects?










						Palestinians living in Jordan deserve to be Jordanian citizens
					

Palestinian Arabs living in UNRWA-administered towns in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan should be given the opportunity to become citizens in their host countries.




					m.jpost.com
				





Palestinian Arabs living in UNRWA-administered towns in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan should be given the opportunity to become citizens in their host countries.

Arabs who consider themselves to be Palestinians deserve a state; they have one – it’s called Jordan. Terrorist organizations, such as the PLO, Hamas, PLFP, Islamic Jihad and others, do not deserve support, or a state.

A “two-state solution,” therefore, based on a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) run by terrorist organizations dedicated to Israel’s destruction is not a solution. That only prevents peace and freedom for Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

“The PA and the PLO cut their links with the Iranian regime, Islamist Turkey and their radical terror proxies and allied groups.”

Why sure. Islam is the _religion of peace™️ _and UNRWA is a “refugee” organization. 

The status quo is what favors the current alphabet soup labels (PA, PLO, PNC, mini dictators and welfare thieves) who define the Pali / Hamas leadership. They have no reason to do anything that will affect their access to international welfare.










						Arab normalization and Palestinian radicalization: The Middle East tug of war
					

The Sept. 15 signing at the White House of the Abraham Accords between the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and




					www.israelhayom.com
				




The Palestinian leadership faces a critical test: A durable peace with Israel with broad Arab backing is now possible, but only if the PA and the PLO cut their links with the Iranian regime, Islamist Turkey and their radical terror proxies and allied groups.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists have an agenda. Shocking!









						A shooting attack against an IDF force near Nablus ended with the death of the shooter. The Palestinian foreign ministry issued a false report, representing the killing as a "barbaric execution" (a familiar PA response to Palestinian popular terroris
					

On November 4, 2020, a Palestinian armed with a hand gun drove to a roadblock near Hawwara (south of Nablus) and opened fire at IDF soldiers manning the site. The soldiers identified the threat, took cover and returned fire, killing the shooter. No IDF casualties were reported (IDF spokesman...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




At least the Islamic terrorist had the good sense to take one for the cause.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to believe the EU understands that portions, perhaps large portions of of their donated welfare money enriches the Islamic terrorist cabals in the Pal territories.
> 
> 
> *Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going?*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 16, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the EU aid to the Palestinian Authority going? | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In May 2020, Palestinian Authority Chairman, Mahmoud Abbas, declared that the PA and the PLO no longer see themselves bound by the agreements signed with Israel. Implementing this decision, the PA has refused to accept tax monies that Israel collects and transfers to the PA. These funds provide for half of the PA’s annual budget. The unilateral decision to refuse the tax income has once again plunged the PA into a self-made financial crisis. In order to deal with the ramifications of the decision, the PA decided to cut the salaries of all of its civil servants by 50%.
> 
> Since the beginning of 2020, the European Union has provided the PA with hundreds of millions of euro in aid. Of that aid, over 90 million Euro was given to the PA, designated, according to EU press statements, for the payment of salaries to “civil servants mostly in the health and education sector in the West Bank.”
> 
> In November 2019, European Member of Parliament Carmen Avram submitted written questions to the European Commission seeking to ensure that the EU aid to the PA was not being used to fund the payment of salaries to terrorists. The March 2020 response of the commission explained the mechanism by which the EU ostensibly tracks the final beneficiaries of the EU aid saying:
> “The Palestinian Authority provides a list of eligible beneficiaries which is checked by EU-contracted independent auditors against a list of eligibility criteria as well as a second check of individuals considered to be associated with any terrorist organisations or activities. No payments are made to any beneficiaries falling within these categories.”
> According to this answer, the EU thinks it knows exactly which civil servants are the recipients of the EU aid.
> Since the EU is providing a considerable amount of funding to these specific civil servants, one would assume that their salaries have not been affected by the PA decision to cut all salaries. But this does not appear to be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> The terrorist label is a fascist construct.
Click to expand...


Even non-fascists know that your Palestinian terrorist buddies are terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

In today’s episode of Islamo-insanity Wrap, we examine the psychosis of breeding as a means to further the Cult norms.j



*Proud mother of terrorist involved in murder of 2: “We nursed [all of] you with the milk of heroism… you are heroes”









						Proud mother of terrorist involved in murder of 2: “We nursed [all of] you with the milk of heroism… you are heroes” | PMW Analysis
					

Terrorist has received 820,600 shekels (US$ 243,613) in reward from the PA since his arrest




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 17, 2020

*Terrorist has received 820,600 shekels (US$ 243,613) in reward from the PA since his arrest*



During an interview on official Palestinian Authority TV, the mother of imprisoned terrorist Sa’id Musa Shtayyeh who provided arms to terrorists who murdered 2, expressed her pride in her son, stating that he, and others like him, were raised on “the milk of heroism”:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I suppose we will have to wait and see if the senior leadership of the PFLP gets younger as the current leadership becomes “the formerly breathing senior leadership.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel designates PFLP’s student wing a terror group
> 
> 
> IDF general accuses the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine of 'recruiting young men to commit acts of terrorism'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian officials on Thursday denounced a decision by Israel to brand the student branch of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine as a terrorist organization.
> 
> Israel, the United States and the European Union consider the PFLP to be a terror group.


Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes.

It is part of their fifth grade name calling thing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose we will have to wait and see if the senior leadership of the PFLP gets younger as the current leadership becomes “the formerly breathing senior leadership.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel designates PFLP’s student wing a terror group
> 
> 
> IDF general accuses the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine of 'recruiting young men to commit acts of terrorism'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian officials on Thursday denounced a decision by Israel to brand the student branch of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine as a terrorist organization.
> 
> Israel, the United States and the European Union consider the PFLP to be a terror group.
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is a terrorist to those assholes.
> 
> It is part of their fifth grade name calling thing.
Click to expand...

Your hurt feelings are your own to deal with.

Pretty typical that you engage in what you describe as name calling while you criticize others for what you describe as name calling.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist “aspirations”.

Hoping for a US administration more open to resuming infidel welfare payments to the gee-had, Mahmoud “_show me the welfare money_” Abbas is 
suddenly open to resuming relations with Israel. 










						Palestinians Resume Ties With Israel Ahead of Biden Presidency
					

The Palestinian Authority said it would resume cooperation with Israel after cutting off contact in May, a move that reflects Palestinian aspirations to restart peace talks with the help of the incoming Biden administration.




					www.wsj.com
				




TEL AVIV—The Palestinian Authority said it would resume cooperation with Israel after cutting off contact in May, a move that reflects Palestinian aspirations to restart peace talks with the help of the incoming Biden administration.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Build and defend ignorance.


----------



## Hollie

The Palis are retreating to their standard tactics of libels and conspiracy theories.












						The PA adapts old libel to new political reality | PMW Analysis
					

Stripes on Israeli flag prove Israel seeks to rule “from the Atlantic Ocean to the Persian Gulf”




					palwatch.org
				




*The PA adapts old libel to new political reality*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 19, 2020

*Stripes on Israeli flag prove Israel seeks to rule “from the Atlantic Ocean to the Persian Gulf”*






Like putting old wine in new bottles, the PA has adapted one of its repeating libels about Israel to the new political reality.
Palestinian Media Watch has reported for years on the PA claim that the two blue stripes on the Israeli flag represent the Nile and Euphrates rivers and constitute “proof” of the Israeli/Jewish goal to rule “from the Nile to the Euphrates.”
But following Israel's recent peace agreements with the UAE, Bahrain, and Sudan, the PA has adapted the libel and now claims – in the cartoon above - that Israel’s goal is to rule “from the Atlantic Ocean to the Persian Gulf.” This cartoon follows repeated PA claims that the peace agreements are part of an Israeli plan to take control of the entire region:


> *Text on cartoon:* “Israeli flag”
> *Israeli soldier:* “It’s not true that [the blue stripes] mean from the Nile River to the Euphrates River. They mean from the [Atlantic] Ocean to the [Persian] Gulf.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 16, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

After their blustering, pompous proclamations targeting Arab nations as “backstabbers” and ”turning their backs“ on the Pali cause, the PA has decided to pipe down and ask forgiveness from those they trashed just weeks ago. 











						Palestinians said to quietly return their ambassadors to UAE, Bahrain
					

Ramallah had recalled its envoys after the two countries announced their intention to normalize ties with Israel, decrying the deals as 'a stab in the back'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




The Palestinian Authority has quietly returned its ambassadors to Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates after it recalled them in protest of the two states’ decision to normalize ties with Israel, according to media reports Wednesday.

Ramallah did not officially confirm the reports, which were carried in Reuters, Saudi-backed al-Arabiya, and the major Palestinian news agency Ma’an. A spokesperson for the PA Foreign Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> After their blustering, pompous proclamations targeting Arab nations as “backstabbers” and ”turning their backs“ on the Pali cause, the PA has decided to pipe down and ask forgiveness from those they trashed just weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians said to quietly return their ambassadors to UAE, Bahrain
> 
> 
> Ramallah had recalled its envoys after the two countries announced their intention to normalize ties with Israel, decrying the deals as 'a stab in the back'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority has quietly returned its ambassadors to Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates after it recalled them in protest of the two states’ decision to normalize ties with Israel, according to media reports Wednesday.
> 
> Ramallah did not officially confirm the reports, which were carried in Reuters, Saudi-backed al-Arabiya, and the major Palestinian news agency Ma’an. A spokesperson for the PA Foreign Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.


Abbas is so useless. When the rest of the Palestinians are going around the world selling Palestine, Abbas was out selling the phony peace process that goes nowhere.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> After their blustering, pompous proclamations targeting Arab nations as “backstabbers” and ”turning their backs“ on the Pali cause, the PA has decided to pipe down and ask forgiveness from those they trashed just weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians said to quietly return their ambassadors to UAE, Bahrain
> 
> 
> Ramallah had recalled its envoys after the two countries announced their intention to normalize ties with Israel, decrying the deals as 'a stab in the back'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority has quietly returned its ambassadors to Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates after it recalled them in protest of the two states’ decision to normalize ties with Israel, according to media reports Wednesday.
> 
> Ramallah did not officially confirm the reports, which were carried in Reuters, Saudi-backed al-Arabiya, and the major Palestinian news agency Ma’an. A spokesperson for the PA Foreign Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is so useless. When the rest of the Palestinians are going around the world selling Palestine, Abbas was out selling the phony peace process that goes nowhere.
Click to expand...

Funny stuff.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. When I read the term “widespread factional rejection” related to the antagonistic Islamic terrorist franchises in the alternate reality of Abbas’istan and the Hamas enclave, I expect gunfire to quickly follow, 












						Restoration of ties with Israel sparks anger in Palestine
					

GAZA CITY: The Palestinian Authority (PA) announced on Tuesday that it will restore coordination with Israel — a move that has been met with widespread factional rejection in the country, with the PA accused of “undermining” internal reconciliation efforts. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas...




					www.arabnews.com
				




GAZA CITY: The Palestinian Authority (PA) announced on Tuesday that it will restore coordination with Israel — a move that has been met with widespread factional rejection in the country, with the PA accused of “undermining” internal reconciliation efforts.

Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas announced a halt to coordination with Israel — including security cooperation — in May, in response to Israeli plans to annex 30 percent of the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

While it never got much notice, there are rare occasions when a UN panel will have an opportunity to voice an opinion outside of the UN politburo mouthpieces. 











						Unprecedented: United Nations panel urges Palestinians to stop hate speech and incitement to violence 'that fuels antisemitism' - EJP
					

GENEVA—For the first time, a United Nations panel this week criticized the Palestinians, urging them ”to stop hate speech and incitement to violence that fuels antisemitism.” The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD)  in Geneva said it was ‘’concerned  about statements...




					ejpress.org
				




Unprecedented: United Nations panel urges Palestinians to stop hate speech and incitement to violence ‘that fuels antisemitism’

*GENEVA—For the first time, a United Nations panel this week criticized the Palestinians, urging them ”to stop hate speech and incitement to violence that fuels antisemitism.”

The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD)  in Geneva said it was ‘’concerned  about statements by Palestinian officials, as well as in school textbooks, that promote hate speech against Israelis’’ which it found “fuels hatred” and “may incite violence” and “antisemitism.”*


----------



## Hollie

Pali Islamic terrorists are quite the opportunists. What a shame their energies, their daily existence tends to be focused on everything that amplifies their self-created failures and ineptitudes. 












						Palestinians Ramp Up Incitement to Murder Jews
					

The Palestinians, always quick to adapt to new circumstances, are taking full advantage of the coronavirus crisis to incite the murder of Jews.




					besacenter.org
				




*Palestinians Ramp Up Incitement to Murder Jews*
By *Dr. Edy Cohen*June 7, 2020
FacebookTwitterEmailMore94







BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,599, June 7, 2020

*EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The Palestinians, always quick to adapt to new circumstances, are taking full advantage of the coronavirus crisis to incite the murder of Jews.*

Ever since the outbreak of the coronavirus pandemic, many influential Palestinians have maliciously spread the lie that Israel is using the virus as a biological weapon and is deliberately spreading it in the Palestinian areas.

These slanders start at the top. Palestinian PM Muhammad Shtayyeh launched a campaign pushing this incitement, and almost immediately thereafter, other senior Palestinian officials, including government spokesman Ibrahim Milhem, the health minister, and city mayors, all issued similar statements. They claimed Israel intentionally spread the virus through nearby infected Jewish residents and through infected Palestinian workers returning from work in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

It's never surprising to see just how conspiracy theory addled the Pals are. 











						“The Zionist enemy” murdered Arafat by poisoning him with polonium – PA spreads the libel | PMW Analysis
					

During recent events marking the anniversary of Arafat’s death, PA and Fatah officials repeated this libel




					palwatch.org
				





*“The Zionist enemy” murdered Arafat by poisoning him with polonium – PA spreads the libel*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 20, 2020




Despite the fact that forensic investigations by different countries concluded that Arafat did not die of poisoning (see details below), the PA disseminates the libel that their iconic leader Yasser Arafat was murdered by polonium poisoning by “the Zionist enemy.”

During recent events marking the anniversary of Arafat’s death, PA and Fatah officials repeated this libel:


----------



## Hollie

There's no childhood in occupied Palestine
					

As the world marks International Children's Day, Palestinian minors are still living under the constant threat of war, demolition and dispossession at the hands of the Israeli occupation...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





Gee-had starts when they’re young.


----------



## Hollie

It might be worth keeping an eye out for deals as investment properties. 



*Will Trump's major foreign policy legacy be Israel and Palestine?*










						Will Trump's major foreign policy legacy be Israel and Palestine?
					

From ‘peace’ deals to gutting aid, the US president has had a major impact on the region




					www.theguardian.com
				




From ‘peace’ deals to gutting aid, the US president has had a major impact on the region
Oliver Holmes in Jerusalem
Thu 19 Nov 2020 05.20 EST

Last modified on Thu 19 Nov 2020 15.15 EST






Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu (right) and the US ambassador to Israel, David Friedman (left), applaud after unveiling the place-name sign for a new settlement during an official ceremony in the Golan Heights in June last year. Photograph: Jalaa Marey/AFP/Getty Images


----------



## Hollie

Decades of US welfare money showered on the Pali Islamic terrorists provided tacit support for the gee-had. A firm had with Islamic terrorists goes a long way toward suppressing the more excitable of the gee-had wannabes. 












						Trump’s Term: Lowest Tally of Israeli Deaths From Palestinian Terrorism
					

Despite the tragedies, the last four years have been the safest ever.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




U.S. President Donald Trump’s strong support for Israel translated into the lowest Israeli death toll from Palestinian terrorism (47 murdered), despite the various dire warnings of the region going up in flames because of the U.S.’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, the move of its embassy to the city and various other pro-Israel initiatives. Year-to-date, two people have been killed by Palestinian terrorists, the lowest one year total ever. The two-year and three-year totals (14 and 28, 2019-2020 and 2018-2020, respectively) are also records for the fewest Israeli deaths from terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

__





						Major Palestinian Terror Organizations
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
				




A roll call of psychopaths and misfits.

​


*Hamas*

*Palestine Islamic Jihad*

*Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade*

*Popular Resistance Committees (PRC)*

*Democratic Front for the
Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)*

*Popular Front for the
Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)*

*Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)*

*Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC)*

*Harakat al-Sabireen*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Fighting the Pali terrorist gee-had


----------



## Hollie

Oh, the agony!

At some point in time, probably now with Arab governments losing interest in the bottomless pit of want and need that is the Pals, the notion of Fatah and Hamas “states” becomes an increasingly failed theory.











						Palestine’s Agony - Project Syndicate
					

Arab governments argued for decades that an Israeli-Palestinian peace should be the precondition for normalization of relations with the Jewish state. But the recent diplomatic breakthrough between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain suggests a major regional shift that threatens to...




					www.project-syndicate.org
				




A permanent settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict may not be a lost cause, but for many Arab governments it seems to be less important than ever. With other Arab states likely to follow the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain in normalizing relations with Israel, do the Palestinians still have a viable path to an independent state of their own?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Always one decision away from the next disaster.

*Kuwaiti TV Host: Palestinian Rejection of UAE Peace Agreement with Israel is a Historic Mistake*


----------



## Hollie

One of the obvious results of showering Islamic terrorists with welfare money that acts as a reward for Islamic terrorism is that Islamic terrorist franchises sprout up like summer dandelions.










						Damn Lies and the Palestinian Authority’s ‘Pay-for-Slay’ Policy
					

Israeli forensic police inspect the scene of a Palestinian terrorist attack near of Ariel, in the West Bank, March 17, …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Among the thousands of recipients of the PA payments are mass murderers like Abdallah Barghouti, who is responsible for multiple terror attacks in which 67 people were murdered, and the family of Abd Al-Basset Odeh, the suicide bomber who carried out the Passover attack at the Park Hotel in Netanya on March 27, 2002, murdering 30 Israelis.

The beneficiaries of the payments include terrorists from all the Palestinian terror groups, including Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the Popular front for the Liberation of Palestine — all internationally designated terror organizations — as well as members of Fatah. Many of the terrorists are responsible not only for the murder of Israelis — Jews and Arabs alike — but also for the murder of foreigners, including, but not limited to, US, UK, French, Dutch, Australian, and Russian citizens.


----------



## Hollie

Perhaps the Iranian mullocrats were impatient with their minions in the Islamic terrorist syndicates operating in Gaza and ordered them to step up the gee-had. 








						Palestinian rocket fire draws Israeli air strikes in Gaza | One America News Network
					

Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from OANN.com. Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports.




					www.oann.com
				





GAZA (Reuters) – Palestinian militants fired a rocket into Israel, drawing Israeli air strikes in the Gaza Strip, the Israeli military said on Sunday.

There were no casualties reported on either side of the border. Israeli police said the Gaza rocket fired on Saturday night damaged a factory in the southern city of Ashkelon.

The Israeli military said its aircraft struck in response against several military sites belonging to Hamas, the Islamist armed group that controls Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Will the Palestinian Authority Stop Paying Terrorists? End the “Pay to Slay” Program?
					

Abbas has claimed in the past that the payments were sacrosanct. - Yossi Kuperwasser




					jcpa.org
				




In a bold move to refurbish their sullied image in Washington, the Palestinians are laying the groundwork for an overhaul to one of their most cherished but controversial practices: compensating those who serve time in Israeli prisons, including for violent attacks [“Pay to Slay”] …. The plan, which has not been publicly announced, is only the latest in a flurry of moves the Palestinians are making to try to reboot their international relations. – (The New York Times, November 19, 2020)


Hey, that’s great, Mahmoud. However you announced earlier...









						Abbas vows the PA won't stop paying terrorist salaries | PMW Translations
					

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in speech to PLO Central Council: "There is something that the Americans are telling us to stop - the salaries of the Martyrs and the Martyrs' families. Of course we categorically reject this. We will not under any circumstances allow anyone to harm the families of the..."




					palwatch.org
				




We will not under any circumstances allow anyone to harm the families of the prisoners, the wounded, and the Martyrs. They are our children and they are our families. They honor us, and we will continue to pay them before the living."


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The Palis hoped-for return to the era of millions of kuffar welfare dollars may not come to be. 


Biden’s Embrace of the Two-State Solution Is a Recipe for Disaster in Israel-Palestine (foreignpolicy.com)


While President-elect Joe Biden’s win—or, rather, Trump’s impending exit—offers Palestinians a brief reprieve, it also presents them with a sobering reality with which they must now contend. The Biden administration may prove less threatening to the Palestinian cause than its predecessor, but it is not likely to facilitate a path toward Palestinian freedom or rights. Far from it, Biden will likely usher in a return to the suffocating pre-Trump normal of the Oslo paradigm.

Biden will likely usher in a return to the suffocating pre-Trump normal of the Oslo paradigm—the framework, based on the 1993 and 1995 Oslo Accords, that advocates for a two-state solution through bilateral negotiations mediated by the United States. Flawed for numerous reasons—not the least of which being that it is sorely outdated—the dormant Oslo peace process renders the United States the playmaker in Palestinians’ collective fate.


----------



## Hollie

https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-pas-policy-of-deception/
		


While the PA may hope to deceive the uninformed, the truth is incontrovertible: For the PA, rewarding terrorists is not about social welfare, but about incentivizing and rewarding terror and murder.


----------



## Hollie

_“The Psychopath Channel” _is a part of PA TV run by the Islamic Terrorists representing the Fatah franchise. They’re on a gee-had high as the channel promotes suicide / mass murder as the pinnacle of young Islamist achievement in the Death Cult social order.











						Palestinian TV glorifies efforts of terrorists who murdered Israelis
					

The terrorists featured in a PA TV video are responsible for stabbings, murders, attacking IDF soldiers and attempted bombings.




					m.jpost.com
				





Palestinian Authority Television (PA TV) ran a TV filler praising the efforts of terrorists who have targeted Israelis, according to a Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) report.

The filler runs the names and pictures of fifteen Palestinian terrorists, some responsible for the murder of Israelis, while a song of praise runs in the background.

“The siege will not make you bend, chains will not worry you. You are all witnesses," the song went, according to PMW. "You, O Martyrs, you create our glory, our honor, and life... You are the heroes; your glory is the struggle."

The terrorists featured in the video are responsible for stabbings, murders, attacking IDF soldiers and attempted bombings.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Profiles in Peace - Former Saudi Ambassador to the U.S.: Palestinian Leadership Is Full of Ungrateful Frauds and Liars


(499) Former Saudi Ambassador to the U.S.: Palestinian Leadership Is Full of Ungrateful Frauds and Liars - YouTube


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-pas-policy-of-deception/
> 
> 
> 
> While the PA may hope to deceive the uninformed, the truth is incontrovertible: For the PA, rewarding terrorists is not about social welfare, but about incentivizing and rewarding terror and murder.


Fatah lost the elections. The US put the losers back in power.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-pas-policy-of-deception/
> 
> 
> 
> While the PA may hope to deceive the uninformed, the truth is incontrovertible: For the PA, rewarding terrorists is not about social welfare, but about incentivizing and rewarding terror and murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. The US put the losers back in power.
Click to expand...

Another of your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the Palis have realized their most recent episodes of tiresome, petulant and arrogant whining has run its course with no affect.



Palestine begins to restore civil, security ties with Israel after 6-month halt - Xinhua | English.news.cn (xinhuanet.com) 


RAMALLAH, Nov. 23 (Xinhua) -- Palestine on Monday began to restore civil and security relations with Israel following a six-month suspension of the bilateral agreements signed between the two sides.

The employees of the General Authority for Civil Affairs, the Palestinian liaison office that coordinates civil relations between the Palestinian Authority and Israel including registration of new births and issuing passports and work permits, have returned to work at its offices and branches in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

UNRWA. The Islamic terrorist funding agency that's always begging for more. UNRWA is the world's largest welfare program. It exists purely to perpetuate the invented "refugee" status of Pali Arabs who fled their homes when Arab armies told them to get out of the way so the Jew-genocide could commence. It's the only such agency for financing Islamic terrorist franchises and at one time received $100 million annually from U.S. taxpayers. Does that money go to help impoverished Palestinian Arabs who need to eat and receive medical care or does it buy new Kalashnikovs and plastic explosives for Hamas? Who knows? The UN sure doesn't.





UNRWA issues emergency call for humanitarian assistance amid end-of-year shortfall; salaries of 28,000 staff at risk, hopes to avoid suspension of essential services - occupied Palestinian territory | ReliefWeb

*The UN Agency, which supports 5.7 million Palestine refugees in the Middle East, announced it needs US$ 70 million this month to pay its staff, continue education and health services amidst pandemic*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


More of Israel's terrorist propaganda shtick.

Colonial powers always call the natives names.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of Israel's terrorist propaganda shtick.
> 
> Colonial powers always call the natives names.
Click to expand...

Your usual, tired slogans.


----------



## Hollie

Palis will be Palis.

In the rational world, the world not addled with hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits, it seems odd that anyone would pray at the altar of “The World’s Most Successful Islamic Terrorist”. But, the world inhabited by two, competing Islamic terrorist tribes is far from rational. 



*PA glorifies Arafat as man of war*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 23, 2020









						PA glorifies Arafat as man of war | PMW Analysis
					

PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"




					palwatch.org
				





*PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"*
*PA TV host to children: "Allah willing, one day our entire land will return to us"*



Although former PLO/PA Chariman Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo Accords peace agreement with then Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin and then Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres in 1993, and later received the Nobel Peace Prize together with the two Israelis, the PA never highlights this. In fact it seems this is deliberately ignored.
Instead, the PA adamantly wants Palestinians to admire Arafat as a man of war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palis will be Palis.
> 
> In the rational world, the world not addled with hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits, it seems odd that anyone would pray at the altar of “The World’s Most Successful Islamic Terrorist”. But, the world inhabited by two, competing Islamic terrorist tribes is far from rational.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA glorifies Arafat as man of war*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 23, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA glorifies Arafat as man of war | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"*
> *PA TV host to children: "Allah willing, one day our entire land will return to us"*
> 
> 
> 
> Although former PLO/PA Chariman Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo Accords peace agreement with then Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin and then Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres in 1993, and later received the Nobel Peace Prize together with the two Israelis, the PA never highlights this. In fact it seems this is deliberately ignored.
> Instead, the PA adamantly wants Palestinians to admire Arafat as a man of war.


In the US Indians defending their land were called savages.


----------



## Hollie

The _Kingdom_ _of Mahmoud’istan _is about to become a reality, well, at least as soon as the UN and UNRWA can wave the magic wands Korans to make it happen.

Of course, the first Islamic terrorist attack against Israel that originates from
the (_Magical) Kingdom of Mahmoud’istan - where dreams come true™️ _would be an act of war and the Mahmoud’istanians would have little recourse to screech “... the evil Jews” as justification for an act of war.

I guess we can look forward to a soon to be announced, UN, UNRWA sponsored Islamic Terrorist’athon Fund Drive. Odd, how the new _Kingdom of Mahmoud’istan _is no different than the current _Kingdom of Mahmoud’istan._









						UN panel votes 163-5 in support of Palestinian statehood, end of occupation
					

Draft calling for two-state solution passes General Assembly's Third Committee in large package of annual pro-Palestinian resolutions that Israel argues shows bias against it




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palis will be Palis.
> 
> In the rational world, the world not addled with hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits, it seems odd that anyone would pray at the altar of “The World’s Most Successful Islamic Terrorist”. But, the world inhabited by two, competing Islamic terrorist tribes is far from rational.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA glorifies Arafat as man of war*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 23, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA glorifies Arafat as man of war | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"*
> *PA TV host to children: "Allah willing, one day our entire land will return to us"*
> 
> 
> 
> Although former PLO/PA Chariman Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo Accords peace agreement with then Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin and then Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres in 1993, and later received the Nobel Peace Prize together with the two Israelis, the PA never highlights this. In fact it seems this is deliberately ignored.
> Instead, the PA adamantly wants Palestinians to admire Arafat as a man of war.
> 
> 
> 
> In the US Indians defending their land were called savages.
Click to expand...

In the lands of the former Turkish Caliphate, (which released all rights and title to the Mandatory), Islamic terrorists squatting on lands they didn’t own called themselves Arab Pal’istanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palis will be Palis.
> 
> In the rational world, the world not addled with hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits, it seems odd that anyone would pray at the altar of “The World’s Most Successful Islamic Terrorist”. But, the world inhabited by two, competing Islamic terrorist tribes is far from rational.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA glorifies Arafat as man of war*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 23, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA glorifies Arafat as man of war | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"*
> *PA TV host to children: "Allah willing, one day our entire land will return to us"*
> 
> 
> 
> Although former PLO/PA Chariman Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo Accords peace agreement with then Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin and then Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres in 1993, and later received the Nobel Peace Prize together with the two Israelis, the PA never highlights this. In fact it seems this is deliberately ignored.
> Instead, the PA adamantly wants Palestinians to admire Arafat as a man of war.
> 
> 
> 
> In the US Indians defending their land were called savages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the lands of the former Turkish Caliphate, (which released all rights and title to the Mandatory), Islamic terrorists squatting on lands they didn’t own called themselves Arab Pal’istanians.
Click to expand...

You need to read up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palis will be Palis.
> 
> In the rational world, the world not addled with hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits, it seems odd that anyone would pray at the altar of “The World’s Most Successful Islamic Terrorist”. But, the world inhabited by two, competing Islamic terrorist tribes is far from rational.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA glorifies Arafat as man of war*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 23, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA glorifies Arafat as man of war | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA official: Arafat "would repeat the saying ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem,’ in a clear and unequivocal sign that the path to Jerusalem is paved with sacrifices and continues until our people will achieve its firm and legal rights to liberate the land"*
> *PA TV host to children: "Allah willing, one day our entire land will return to us"*
> 
> 
> 
> Although former PLO/PA Chariman Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo Accords peace agreement with then Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin and then Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres in 1993, and later received the Nobel Peace Prize together with the two Israelis, the PA never highlights this. In fact it seems this is deliberately ignored.
> Instead, the PA adamantly wants Palestinians to admire Arafat as a man of war.
> 
> 
> 
> In the US Indians defending their land were called savages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the lands of the former Turkish Caliphate, (which released all rights and title to the Mandatory), Islamic terrorists squatting on lands they didn’t own called themselves Arab Pal’istanians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read up.
Click to expand...

You need some new slogans.


----------



## Hollie

Definition of taqiyah | Dictionary.com
					

Definition of taqiyah from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.




					www.dictionary.com
				



the practice of denying one's religion, permissible when one is faced with persecution, especially by Sunnites: regarded as a means of protecting the religion.











						PA tells NY Times it's curbing terror funding, assures Palestinians no change | World Israel News
					

Palestinian Authority prisoners official told the New York Times ‘pay to slay’ would be changed, then denied it in Arabic.




					worldisraelnews.com
				




Palestinian Authority prisoners official told the New York Times ‘pay to slay’ would be changed, then denied it in Arabic.


----------



## Hollie

Such islamo-melodrama.



*PA libel: Israel “is deliberately killing the Palestinian children” - PA TV host demonizes Israel on kids’ program*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 24, 2020
On the occasion of International Children's Day, Palestinian children were taught that Israel "deliberately" targets and murders them. This demonization of Israel was fed to the young viewers by the host on official PA TV's kids' program _The Best Home_:














*Official PA TV children’s host Walaa Al-Battat:* “Unfortunately – and this is a very painful thing that I want to tell you about – a number of friends have lost their right to live because the occupation is deliberately killing the Palestinian children, and this is a very painful thing.”
[Official PA TV, _The Best Home_, Nov. 21, 2020]



That’s all fine and dandy, Walaa, but you fine folks told us earlier...



*"The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me" - Martyrdom-death promoted to kids on PA TV children's program*









						"The Dark-Eyed [Virgins] yearn for me" - Martyrdom-death promoted to kids on PA TV children's program | PMW Analysis
					

PA child abuse revisited




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pali terrorist leaders on whining and complaining.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Chant of women - Dareen Tatour Palestinian poet*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Zionist colonisation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine: a short history lesson*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Zionist colonisation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine: a short history lesson*



He left out 2 important facts:

Arabs  collonized the entire MENA region
They've expelled all the native Jews from their holy cities in Palestine and rest of MENA -  half of the Jews arriving in Palestine were refugeed expelled from lands Arabs grabbed.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Zionist colonisation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine: a short history lesson*



Yeah, the muzzies fucked up, eh?

Owned 94%? LOL!

Typical bad muzzie math.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

While one might think that Pal sharia judges such as the loon identified are an aberration, they’re really just pious Moslems who adhere to a literal interpretation of their Korans. 












						PA Shari’ah Judge: Jews/Israelis are "impure... occupying thieves” | PMW Analysis
					

“Allah, liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., the Cave of the Patriarchs), and the rest of the Muslim sites from the impurity of the occupying thieves, amen.”




					palwatch.org
				





*PA Shari’ah Judge: Jews/Israelis are "impure... occupying thieves”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 25, 2020

*PA official: “Jews have no right” to the Temple Mount*
During a recent sermon, one of the PA’s Shari’ah judges called on Allah to “liberate Al-Aqsa” and free it from “the impurity of the occupying thieves”:















> *PA Shari'ah Judge Ata Al-Muhtasib:* “We will continue to defend our land, our holy sites, our noble Jerusalem, and our right to freedom and independence… *Allah, forgive us our sins and exaggerations… and grant us victory over our enemies and the enemies of the Muslims… Allah, liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., the Cave of the Patriarchs), and the rest of the Muslim sites from the impurity of the occupying thieves, amen.”*
> [Official PA TV, Oct. 9, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation speak out*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

This is an important discussion. It’s long past due that the seemingly endless welfare program for invented Pal “refugees” comes to an end. 











						Nikki Haley calls on Trump administration to release report on how many Palestinian refugees receive UN aid
					

Former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley on Wednesday urged the Trump administration to release a classified report about how many Palestinian refugees receive aid from the U.N.’s Palestinian refugee agency -- an agency from which the U.S. withdrew funding in 2018 and that President-elect Joe Biden...




					www.foxnews.com
				




Haley linked to a New York Post column that refers to a report by the State Department, purportedly compiled during the Obama administration, which shows how many of those receiving aid from the UNRWA -- the U.N.’s refugee agency specifically for displaced Palestinians -- were actually displaced in 1948.

It taps into a long-standing argument of critics of the controversial agency that UNRWA no longer serves its original purpose, and instead operates using a broad definition -- including descendants of Palestinian refugees, as well as people who have become residents in other countries and are no longer displaced.


----------



## Hollie

Religious services in the ''Religion of Peace''. 

The Pal Death Cult - where psychopaths pass for normal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.

BTW, only a few percent of Palestinians are Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Religious services in the ''Religion of Peace''.
> 
> The Pal Death Cult - where psychopaths pass for normal.


Actually, BDS is working better.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Religious services in the ''Religion of Peace''.
> 
> The Pal Death Cult - where psychopaths pass for normal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, BDS is working better.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's not,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> BTW, only a few percent of Palestinians are Hamas.


The Hamas groupie couldn't find a youtube video. 

BTW, as usual, you're wrong.


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute when they have these psychotic episodes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> BTW, only a few percent of Palestinians are Hamas.


*(COMMENT)*

You keep telling me that HAMAS won the electron in 2006 (I think.)  That means that the majority of the Arab Palestinians actively supported a state that supports asymmetric violence.  It was HAMAS that organized the thousands and thousands of people to threaten the border demarcation.  They supported a HAMAS that indiscriminately fired rockets by the thousands into Israel.  They chose to support a government that incited violence and encouraged individual attacks.  It was that the same people that march in the streets with HAMAS.

Remember, for more than three decades, HAMAS has had a stated policy that "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights."  How is that leadership working out for them?  Name one piece of territory that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have liberated following HAMAS strategy (or any strategy)?

Yeah, you keep telling me how peaceful these people are, yet the records don't show that at all.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Another tactic used in the islamist gee-had is car ramming of Israeli police, civilians and soldiers.








						Israelis fatally shoot alleged Palestinian attacker: police
					

Israeli security forces fatally shot a Palestinian at a checkpoint outside Jerusalem on Wednesday after he allegedly tried to run down a border policeman, the Israeli police said. The driver, from Israeli-annexed east Jerusalem, tried to flee an inspection at the checkpoint, hitting and lightly...




					www.al-monitor.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> BTW, only a few percent of Palestinians are Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You keep telling me that HAMAS won the electron in 2006 (I think.)  That means that the majority of the Arab Palestinians actively supported a state that supports asymmetric violence.  It was HAMAS that organized the thousands and thousands of people to threaten the border demarcation.  They supported a HAMAS that indiscriminately fired rockets by the thousands into Israel.  They chose to support a government that incited violence and encouraged individual attacks.  It was that the same people that march in the streets with HAMAS.
> 
> Remember, for more than three decades, HAMAS has had a stated policy that "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights."  How is that leadership working out for them?  Name one piece of territory that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have liberated following HAMAS strategy (or any strategy)?
> 
> Yeah, you keep telling me how peaceful these people are, yet the records don't show that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You talk like an Israeli.

People voted for Hamas because Fatah is totally corrupt.

How many people voted for Biden because they like him?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> BTW, only a few percent of Palestinians are Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You keep telling me that HAMAS won the electron in 2006 (I think.)  That means that the majority of the Arab Palestinians actively supported a state that supports asymmetric violence.  It was HAMAS that organized the thousands and thousands of people to threaten the border demarcation.  They supported a HAMAS that indiscriminately fired rockets by the thousands into Israel.  They chose to support a government that incited violence and encouraged individual attacks.  It was that the same people that march in the streets with HAMAS.
> 
> Remember, for more than three decades, HAMAS has had a stated policy that "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights."  How is that leadership working out for them?  Name one piece of territory that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have liberated following HAMAS strategy (or any strategy)?
> 
> Yeah, you keep telling me how peaceful these people are, yet the records don't show that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You talk like an Israeli.
> 
> People voted for Hamas because Fatah is totally corrupt.
> 
> How many people voted for Biden because they like him?
Click to expand...

That was pointless.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> You talk like an Israeli.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure why you want to Insult the Israelis so_!_



P F Tinmore said:


> People voted for Hamas because Fatah is totally corrupt.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, I think that both sides were extremely corrupt.   Both sides find the continuation of the conflict most profitable.   Even without the US contributions, the donor nations are still kicking-in a considerable sum.  _(Those Suits by Giorgio Armani get more expensive every year.)_
 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Razan al-Najjar, 20, was trying to help an injured protester near the border fence when she was fatally shot by Israeli soldiers, witnesses say. Last month, she spoke to The Times about the challenges she faced as a female medical volunteer.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Razan al-Najjar, 20, was trying to help an injured protester near the border fence when she was fatally shot by Israeli soldiers, witnesses say. Last month, she spoke to The Times about the challenges she faced as a female medical volunteer.



Standing next to a group of terrorists can be bad for your health.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Razan al-Najjar, 20, was trying to help an injured protester near the border fence when she was fatally shot by Israeli soldiers, witnesses say. Last month, she spoke to The Times about the challenges she faced as a female medical volunteer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standing next to a group of terrorists can be bad for your health.
Click to expand...

It is illagal to shoot medics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You talk like an Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure why you want to Insult the Israelis so_!_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People voted for Hamas because Fatah is totally corrupt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, I think that both sides were extremely corrupt.   Both sides find the continuation of the conflict most profitable.   Even without the US contributions, the donor nations are still kicking-in a considerable sum.  _(Those Suits by Giorgio Armani get more expensive every year.)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Both sides find the continuation of the conflict most profitable.


You keep forgetting that Israel is the aggressor.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  When, in May 1948, Israel came into existence, the first shots fired were from the forces of the Arab League that jumped across their borders and into the Trustee Territory or Israeli sovereignty.

*CONCEPT POINT:*  "A  threat to its neighbors and to the entire world" is what has been described by Noam Chomsky as a Rogue State.  And the legal framework behind it is the UN Charter (Treaty Equivalent).  The UN Charter is part of the formulation for (what Chomsky calls)  international law and world order.   (See:  _Acts of Aggression • Policing Rogue States_ • Copyright © 1999 by Noam Chomsky, Ramsey Clark, and Edward W. Said)



RoccoR said:


> Both sides find the continuation of the conflict most profitable.





P F Tinmore said:


> You keep forgetting that Israel is the aggressor.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab - Israeli Conflict _(now mostly Israel 'vs' Hostile Arab Palestinians)_ has been a work in progress since the moment Israel was established. Israel is not the Rogue State it is often portrayed to be. And there is no such thing as a "perfect" State. It is also important to note that the Arab League forces entered the fray claiming to be operating in the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People. As King Abdullah said in the 15 MAY 1948 Cable, "to protect unarmed Arabs against massacres similar to those of Deir Yasin" - and - "maintaining at the same time the full rights of the Arabs in Palestine." However, the tension between Israel and the Arab League continued throughout the Armistice until Arab League forces were massed along the borders with Israel. There is no question that they were in a threatening posture. The initial catalyst igniting the breaking of the Armistice was the Arab League's violation of the pledge that "Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state."


			
				Special Committee on the Question of Defining Aggression said:
			
		

> *Article 2*
> The First use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/29/3314


When a small country like Israel is faced with the combined forces of several Arab League nations, posed for the attack, it must take decisive action.  

Israel did not exist prior to May 1948.  It could not have been the aggressor.  And until the Peace Treaties between the Arab League members, the conflict was merely an extension of the 1948 Conflict initiated by the Arab League.  But none of that rules the day, today.  What is important to note is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) never accepted the "peace" that was accepted by Egypt and Jordan.  And that is the face of the conflict today.  It is the State of Israel 'vs' the HoAP; consisting of _(State and non-State actors)_ Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters that did not accept the negotiated peace.  

When we take about the acts of Aggression, we are the HoAP and their boosters (Iran IRGC-Quds Force) that refuse to accept peace with Israel.  Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War.  The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It is illagal to shoot medics.


When they participate in gee-had attacks, there are consequences.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You keep forgetting that Israel is the aggressor.


You keep forgetting that the Islamic terrorists demonstrate otherwise.


----------



## Hollie

Pals rage.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *BLUF:* When, in May 1948, Israel came into existence, the first shots fired were from the forces of the Arab League that jumped across their borders and into the Trustee Territory or Israeli sovereignty.


Stupid statement. If someone breaks into tour house and you shoot him are you the aggressor because you fired the first shot.

And besides, many Palestinians were shot by the British on the behest of the Zionists during the Mandate period.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pals rage.


Is Pompeo Italian for pompous ass?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Israel did not exist prior to May 1948. It could not have been the aggressor. And until the Peace Treaties between the Arab League members, the conflict was merely an extension of the 1948 Conflict initiated by the Arab League.


None of that has anything to do with Palestinian land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pals rage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Pompeo Italian for pompous ass?
Click to expand...

Please limit your participation in these threads to cutting and pasting youtube videos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."


Has nothing to do with Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not exist prior to May 1948. It could not have been the aggressor. And until the Peace Treaties between the Arab League members, the conflict was merely an extension of the 1948 Conflict initiated by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> None of that has anything to do with Palestinian land.
Click to expand...

What Pali land? 

Iink?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not exist prior to May 1948. It could not have been the aggressor. And until the Peace Treaties between the Arab League members, the conflict was merely an extension of the 1948 Conflict initiated by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> None of that has anything to do with Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What Pali land?
> 
> Iink?
Click to expand...

The land inside Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did not exist prior to May 1948. It could not have been the aggressor. And until the Peace Treaties between the Arab League members, the conflict was merely an extension of the 1948 Conflict initiated by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> None of that has anything to do with Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What Pali land?
> 
> Iink?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land inside Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...

You're back to your usual nonsensical claims


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rana Burqan - Global Study Awards winner from Palestine*


----------



## Hollie

I believe there is a lot of misrepresentation surrounding these ''free Pal'istan'', claims. The two, competing Islamic terrorist franchises apparently representing something they call ''Pal'istan'' are not going to 'free' anything. Criminal syndicates / Islamic ideology have always been about control and subjugation.



Biden’s Embrace of the Two-State Solution Is a https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/20/biden-cant-free-palestine/ for Disaster in Israel-Palestine (foreignpolicy.com)

While President-elect Joe Biden’s win—or, rather, Trump’s impending exit—offers Palestinians a brief reprieve, it also presents them with a sobering reality with which they must now contend. The Biden administration may prove less threatening to the Palestinian cause than its predecessor, but it is not likely to facilitate a path toward Palestinian freedom or rights.


----------



## Hollie

I think repatriate is the operative term. Although, the Lebanese have shown no willingness to have their nation flooded with their former countrymen.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The third image is from Bing Maps since they were more recent than Google's satellite image.

Note how many more structures there are, and also the three caravans added in the southwest. 

While the town of Fasayil (to the south) has been there for a while, I can find no mention of Fasayil al Wusta anywhere before 2008 or so. (It was supposedly established in 1998.) 

The UN and EU are very good at monitoring demolitions but they don't easily provide the data about the illegal building, which far outpaces the demolitions.

(full article online)









						Another brand new Palestinian "village"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Razan al-Najjar, 20, was trying to help an injured protester near the border fence when she was fatally shot by Israeli soldiers, witnesses say. Last month, she spoke to The Times about the challenges she faced as a female medical volunteer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standing next to a group of terrorists can be bad for your health.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is illagal to shoot medics.
Click to expand...


If  a medic stands next to a terrorist, sometimes bad things happen.
Even if the "medic" isn't smuggling weapons in an ambulance.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BLUF:* When, in May 1948, Israel came into existence, the first shots fired were from the forces of the Arab League that jumped across their borders and into the Trustee Territory or Israeli sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid statement. If someone breaks into tour house and you shoot him are you the aggressor because you fired the first shot.
> 
> And besides, many Palestinians were shot by the British on the behest of the Zionists during the Mandate period.
Click to expand...


* If someone breaks into tour house and you shoot him are you the aggressor because you fired the first shot. *

And there's your mistake.
The house belonged to the Ottomans, not the "Palestinians".


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...


*Has nothing to do with Palestine. *

Why would the imaginary country of Palestine have anything to do with 
Armistice Agreements between actual countries?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...


Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
and I showed that all of them did?

That was great, wasn't it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
Click to expand...

Not true but carry on.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
Click to expand...

You’re in De’Nile. Living there is a balm for your hurt feelings?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
Click to expand...


Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
Click to expand...

Do I have to post those links again?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
Click to expand...

No more links to silly YouTube videos.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
Click to expand...


The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?

Yes, that would be great!!!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
Click to expand...

Those links to the "new states" you never supplied would be fabulous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
Click to expand...

No place called Israel mentioned.





__





						The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
					





					avalon.law.yale.edu
				







__





						The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
					





					avalon.law.yale.edu
				





			The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
		





__





						The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
					





					avalon.law.yale.edu


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
Click to expand...

Your first link is entitled:  "Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949 (1)''

You provided links that explicitly refute your comment. 

Now, you obviously will _again_ make the nonsensical argument that ''Israeli'' is not Israel. We can thus assume that Egyptian does not mean Egypt. Therefore, in the alternate Tinmore reality, Egypt does not, did not exist, there was never a treaty, your links expose a vast conspiracy theory and the country of Pal'istan (where dreams come true), actually exists. 

How will you ever confront reality if your loopy, over the top, ain't comin' back, twisted sense of reality is so terribly distorted?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
Click to expand...

In your link above referring to the Lebanese - Israeli General Armistice Agreement, you're making the case that neither the governing body of Lebanon nor the governing body of Israel existed at that time to enter into that agreement?

How / why it is you choose to make such buffoonish statements is a mystery.

Can you explain that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your link above referring to the Lebanese - Israeli General Armistice Agreement, you're making the case that neither the governing body of Lebanon nor the governing body of Israel existed at that time to enter into that agreement?
> 
> How / why it is you choose to make such buffoonish statements is a mystery.
> 
> Can you explain that?
Click to expand...

Sure, Israeli is a thing not a place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
Click to expand...


While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted. 

The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above. 

No place called "Palestine" mentioned.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your link above referring to the Lebanese - Israeli General Armistice Agreement, you're making the case that neither the governing body of Lebanon nor the governing body of Israel existed at that time to enter into that agreement?
> 
> How / why it is you choose to make such buffoonish statements is a mystery.
> 
> Can you explain that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, Israeli is a thing not a place.
Click to expand...


So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.


buffoon
[bəˈfo͞on]





						buffoon - Bing
					






					www.bing.com
				



 - Bing
NOUN

a ridiculous but amusing person; a clown.
synonyms:
idiot · halfwit · nincompoop · blockhead · dunce · dolt · ignoramus · cretin · imbecile · dullard · moron · simpleton · clod · dope · ninny · chump · dimwit · nitwit · goon · dumbo · dummy · dum-dum · dumbbell · loon · jackass · bonehead · fathead · numbskull ·
[more]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your link above referring to the Lebanese - Israeli General Armistice Agreement, you're making the case that neither the governing body of Lebanon nor the governing body of Israel existed at that time to enter into that agreement?
> 
> How / why it is you choose to make such buffoonish statements is a mystery.
> 
> Can you explain that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, Israeli is a thing not a place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.
> 
> 
> buffoon
> [bəˈfo͞on]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buffoon - Bing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bing.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Bing
> NOUN
> 
> a ridiculous but amusing person; a clown.
> synonyms:
> idiot · halfwit · nincompoop · blockhead · dunce · dolt · ignoramus · cretin · imbecile · dullard · moron · simpleton · clod · dope · ninny · chump · dimwit · nitwit · goon · dumbo · dummy · dum-dum · dumbbell · loon · jackass · bonehead · fathead · numbskull ·
> [more]
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.


That is true.


----------



## Hollie

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/EG%20IL_490224_Egyptian-Israeli%20General%20Armistice%20Agreement.pdf


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your link above referring to the Lebanese - Israeli General Armistice Agreement, you're making the case that neither the governing body of Lebanon nor the governing body of Israel existed at that time to enter into that agreement?
> 
> How / why it is you choose to make such buffoonish statements is a mystery.
> 
> Can you explain that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, Israeli is a thing not a place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.
> 
> 
> buffoon
> [bəˈfo͞on]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buffoon - Bing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bing.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Bing
> NOUN
> 
> a ridiculous but amusing person; a clown.
> synonyms:
> idiot · halfwit · nincompoop · blockhead · dunce · dolt · ignoramus · cretin · imbecile · dullard · moron · simpleton · clod · dope · ninny · chump · dimwit · nitwit · goon · dumbo · dummy · dum-dum · dumbbell · loon · jackass · bonehead · fathead · numbskull ·
> [more]
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true.
Click to expand...


Such a silly spammer.

What conspiracy theory can you present for the document here:Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your link above referring to the Lebanese - Israeli General Armistice Agreement, you're making the case that neither the governing body of Lebanon nor the governing body of Israel existed at that time to enter into that agreement?
> 
> How / why it is you choose to make such buffoonish statements is a mystery.
> 
> Can you explain that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, Israeli is a thing not a place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.
> 
> 
> buffoon
> [bəˈfo͞on]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buffoon - Bing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bing.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Bing
> NOUN
> 
> a ridiculous but amusing person; a clown.
> synonyms:
> idiot · halfwit · nincompoop · blockhead · dunce · dolt · ignoramus · cretin · imbecile · dullard · moron · simpleton · clod · dope · ninny · chump · dimwit · nitwit · goon · dumbo · dummy · dum-dum · dumbbell · loon · jackass · bonehead · fathead · numbskull ·
> [more]
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, Egyptian is a thing, not a place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true.
Click to expand...

Indeed, now we can return to your claim about those ''new states'' (new states™️)you insist were created but failed to identify.

Link to those new states? (new states™️)


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Some URL Links are more useful than others.



P F Tinmore said:


> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu


*(COMMENT)*

This is another one of those cases where I think you are intentionally deceptive.

◈  S/1264/Corr.1  23 February 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL  24 February 1949 at Rhodes​​◈  S/1296 23 March 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN LEBANON AND ISRAEL  23 March 1949 at Ras En Naqura​​◈  S/1302/Rev.1  3 April 1949 ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN JORDAN AND ISRAEL  3 April 1949, at Rhodes​​◈  S/1353  20 July 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND SYRIA 20 July 1949 Hill 232, near Mahanayim​
In addition to each one of these Agreements on the register with UNISPAL database showing the formal Title indicating a principal party being "Isreal," each agreement was signed as the register shows as: "FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT."  

*LOGIC:*​I would also like to point out that one does not have to mention a territory by "name" in order to identify it.  The big, bright starlight refection, ball-shaped, natural body with an orbital distance of 238,855 miles, on a 27.3 day orbital period is a Moon with no name (just Moon).  ---  Every other moon in the solar system has a name, except for the Moon that orbits the Sun third planet from the G2V star that has no name of its own, apart from “the Sun”.   But just because the Moon and the Sun do not have proper names, does not mean they are not there.  Even if the State of Israel was not identified in the Armistice, the continuous line of prominent landmarks and Grid Coordinates would have identified it.​
What I find remarkable is that you (somehow) totally missed common recorded history.  That singularly strikes a huge blow to your credibility.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
Click to expand...

The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.

The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine. 

The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.

No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I would also like to point out that one does not have to mention a territory by "name" in order to identify it.


Do you mean like Palestine not being named in the Treaty of Lausanne just like the other new states in that region were not named?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
Click to expand...

So... that long, tedious copy and paste was intended to deflect.
The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.

No place called "Palestine" mentioned.

“Palestinian“ is a thing, not a place. That is consistent with your earlier argument. Secondly, there was no defined territory established as Pal territory.

Indeed, now we can return to your claim about those ''new states'' (new states™️)you insist were created but failed to identify.

Link to those new states? (new states™️)


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Some URL Links are more useful than others.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is another one of those cases where I think you are intentionally deceptive.
> 
> ◈  S/1264/Corr.1  23 February 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL  24 February 1949 at Rhodes​​◈  S/1296 23 March 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN LEBANON AND ISRAEL  23 March 1949 at Ras En Naqura​​◈  S/1302/Rev.1  3 April 1949 ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN JORDAN AND ISRAEL  3 April 1949, at Rhodes​​◈  S/1353  20 July 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND SYRIA 20 July 1949 Hill 232, near Mahanayim​
> In addition to each one of these Agreements on the register with UNISPAL database showing the formal Title indicating a principal party being "Isreal," each agreement was signed as the register shows as: "FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT."
> 
> *LOGIC:*​I would also like to point out that one does not have to mention a territory by "name" in order to identify it.  The big, bright starlight refection, ball-shaped, natural body with an orbital distance of 238,855 miles, on a 27.3 day orbital period is a Moon with no name (just Moon).  ---  Every other moon in the solar system has a name, except for the Moon that orbits the Sun third planet from the G2V star that has no name of its own, apart from “the Sun”.   But just because the Moon and the Sun do not have proper names, does not mean they are not there.  Even if the State of Israel was not identified in the Armistice, the continuous line of prominent landmarks and Grid Coordinates would have identified it.​
> What I find remarkable is that you (somehow) totally missed common recorded history.  That singularly strikes a huge blow to your credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel was mentioned in the cover letters but not in the agreements themselves.

Also, the international borders of Palestine with its neighbors were mentioned. No borders for Israel were mentioned.

Also, the agreements stated peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would also like to point out that one does not have to mention a territory by "name" in order to identify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Palestine not being named in the Treaty of Lausanne just like the other new states in that region were not named?
Click to expand...

Do you mean like Egypt, Lebanon and Israel not being named in armistice agreements... when they were obviously named?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Some URL Links are more useful than others.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is another one of those cases where I think you are intentionally deceptive.
> 
> ◈  S/1264/Corr.1  23 February 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL  24 February 1949 at Rhodes​​◈  S/1296 23 March 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN LEBANON AND ISRAEL  23 March 1949 at Ras En Naqura​​◈  S/1302/Rev.1  3 April 1949 ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN JORDAN AND ISRAEL  3 April 1949, at Rhodes​​◈  S/1353  20 July 1949  ARMISTICE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND SYRIA 20 July 1949 Hill 232, near Mahanayim​
> In addition to each one of these Agreements on the register with UNISPAL database showing the formal Title indicating a principal party being "Isreal," each agreement was signed as the register shows as: "FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT."
> 
> *LOGIC:*​I would also like to point out that one does not have to mention a territory by "name" in order to identify it.  The big, bright starlight refection, ball-shaped, natural body with an orbital distance of 238,855 miles, on a 27.3 day orbital period is a Moon with no name (just Moon).  ---  Every other moon in the solar system has a name, except for the Moon that orbits the Sun third planet from the G2V star that has no name of its own, apart from “the Sun”.   But just because the Moon and the Sun do not have proper names, does not mean they are not there.  Even if the State of Israel was not identified in the Armistice, the continuous line of prominent landmarks and Grid Coordinates would have identified it.​
> What I find remarkable is that you (somehow) totally missed common recorded history.  That singularly strikes a huge blow to your credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was mentioned in the cover letters but not in the agreements themselves.
> 
> Also, the international borders of Palestine with its neighbors were mentioned. No borders for Israel were mentioned.
> 
> Also, the agreements stated peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel was identified specifically in the agreements. Dwelling in some alternate reality doesn’t create alternate facts.

So a link to those new states (new states™️) you have invented would be fabulous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... that long, tedious copy and paste was intended to deflect.
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> “Palestinian“ is a thing, not a place. That is consistent with your earlier argument. Secondly, there was no defined territory established as Pal territory.
> 
> Indeed, now we can return to your claim about those ''new states'' (new states™️)you insist were created but failed to identify.
> 
> Link to those new states? (new states™️)
Click to expand...

You are soooooo confused.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... that long, tedious copy and paste was intended to deflect.
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> “Palestinian“ is a thing, not a place. That is consistent with your earlier argument. Secondly, there was no defined territory established as Pal territory.
> 
> Indeed, now we can return to your claim about those ''new states'' (new states™️)you insist were created but failed to identify.
> 
> Link to those new states? (new states™️)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooo confused.
Click to expand...

I haven’t invented any new states, (new states™️). Why the need to spam the thread with falsehoods, misinformation and invented versions of history?

Indeed, 

Link to those new states? (new states™️)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... that long, tedious copy and paste was intended to deflect.
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> “Palestinian“ is a thing, not a place. That is consistent with your earlier argument. Secondly, there was no defined territory established as Pal territory.
> 
> Indeed, now we can return to your claim about those ''new states'' (new states™️)you insist were created but failed to identify.
> 
> Link to those new states? (new states™️)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooo confused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t invented any new states, (new states™️). Why the need to spam the thread with falsehoods, misinformation and invented versions of history?
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> Link to those new states? (new states™️)
Click to expand...

You need more help than I can give you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While it is futile to suggest that anyone hold you to a consistent, rational, linear progression of assertions and facts that will form a coherent argument, we see you have again refuted your own argument. With regard to your buffoonish claim that the Treaty of Lausanne invented your imaginary 'country of Pal'istan',  resolve that argument with how you frame the nonsense claims related to the links you posted.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... that long, tedious copy and paste was intended to deflect.
> The Treaty of Lausanne does not identify ''Palestine''. Consider that in the context of your silly excuse for an argument above.
> 
> No place called "Palestine" mentioned.
> 
> “Palestinian“ is a thing, not a place. That is consistent with your earlier argument. Secondly, there was no defined territory established as Pal territory.
> 
> Indeed, now we can return to your claim about those ''new states'' (new states™️)you insist were created but failed to identify.
> 
> Link to those new states? (new states™️)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooo confused.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t invented any new states, (new states™️). Why the need to spam the thread with falsehoods, misinformation and invented versions of history?
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> Link to those new states? (new states™️)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need more help than I can give you.
Click to expand...

You could help yourself by presenting a defendable argument.

To insist that nations and treaties don’t exist despite the documents being readily available is rather silly and time wasting.

Link to those new states (new states™️) you claim exist?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, it is no longer a conflict which is an extension of the 1948 War. The Armistice Agreements _(from which the Armistice Lines were derived)_ were only to "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember when you said none of the Armistice Agreements mentioned Israel
> and I showed that all of them did?
> 
> That was great, wasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true but carry on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have amnesia or Alzheimer's? Both?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I have to post those links again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The links where you said Israel isn't mentioned?
> 
> Yes, that would be great!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No place called Israel mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avalon.law.yale.edu
Click to expand...


Just looking at the first one......





I noticed the word Israeli in the title. No mention of Palestinian. Weird.

And then in article VI....





And Article VII





But why take the word of the Avalon Project when I can go directly to the UN?





S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949 (un.org)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sure, Israeli is a thing not a place.



A thing or a person belonging to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  Well, you could get partial credit.  But most of the reply is incorre3ct.




P F Tinmore said:


> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.


*(COMMENT)*

This layman's interpretation is based on Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949), wherein, the applicable clauses are ambiguous.  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  Article 49(2) gives an exception:



			
				EXCERPT • Article 49(2) GCIV said:
			
		

> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake *total* or *partial evacuation* of a given area if the *security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand*. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.
> Source:  Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949)





P F Tinmore said:


> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

This is entirely screwed-up.  About the only thing you got right was the part:  "Allied Powers decided"

◈  The Allied Powers DID NOT divide the region into five states.  It created three (3) Mandates  (Article 1 Franco-British Convention of December 1920) .​​✦  The French mandate of Syria and Lebanon on the one hand.​​✦  The British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other.​​*Comment Note*:​There were several other Mandates, but no pertaining to the topic under discussion.​
People assume the citizenship of the territory.  On 11 April 1921, three distinct Arab districts, East of the Jordan River and extending to Mesopotamia, were assembled under a single political territory to be known as the Emirate of Transjordan _(British Protectorate equivalent)_, and with the Emir Abdullah.  The people of the Emirate assumed the citizenship of the Emirate.




P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.


*(COMMENT)*

There has been "*Much* Ado About" inalienable and inviolable rights. And while the Universal Declaration for Human Rights (UDHR) establishes a common understanding such rights, it only urges Governments to accept those principles, the UDHR is NOT LAW. "There are nine (9) core international human rights instruments." The 'rights' that you have most often invoked are those found in the
"International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR); or those documented in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (SESCR).  These are the laws.   

The rights pertaining to the broad category of "self determination" -  "independence and sovereignty" - and "territorial integrity" are very loosely described in the UN Charter.  The key here is that the CCPR covers those rights in the specifics.

The Arab Palestinians have not territory of their own, or as you say:   "people inside their defined territory"  If the Arab Palestinians had such a defined territory, it would have already been brought to the surface.  The idea that the Arab Palestinians claim the entirety of the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine" as their defined territory is absolutely ludacris.  



P F Tinmore said:


> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, this is a statement with no real context.  It sounds right, but then applied to what.  The Arab Palestinians are, themselves confused, as to what their boundaries are.  Don't talk about international boundaries and them make me recite how you twisted the phrase.  Remember, prior to 1948, Palestine was a non-self-governing territory (NSGT) administratively established to accommodate the Mandate authority.  The indigenous population was citizens of a territory that they had neither "rights" nor "title."







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Pure subterfuge.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel was mentioned in the cover letters but not in the agreements themselves.


*(COMMENT)*

This is nonsense.  The Armistice Agreements were signed by the respective governments.  Today, there are no active Armistice agreements in the Region, so the point is irrelevant.



P F Tinmore said:


> Also, the international borders of Palestine with its neighbors were mentioned. No borders for Israel were mentioned.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, Armistice Agreements deal with military forces and a static Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA).  It is not a permanent political agreement.  In the case of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and Jerusalem, the Treaties that deactivated the respective treaties established the boundaries.



P F Tinmore said:


> Also, the agreements stated peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, Armistice Agreements pertain to the cessation of hostilities along a static FEBA.  It is the Treaty that establishes the criteria for peace.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well, you could get partial credit.  But most of the reply is incorre3ct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This layman's interpretation is based on Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949), wherein, the applicable clauses are ambiguous.  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  Article 49(2) gives an exception:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 49(2) GCIV said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake *total* or *partial evacuation* of a given area if the *security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand*. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.​Source:  Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949)​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is entirely screwed-up.  About the only thing you got right was the part:  "Allied Powers decided"
> 
> ◈  The Allied Powers DID NOT divide the region into five states.  It created three (3) Mandates  (Article 1 Franco-British Convention of December 1920) .​​✦  The French mandate of Syria and Lebanon on the one hand.​​✦  The British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other.​​*Comment Note*:​There were several other Mandates, but no pertaining to the topic under discussion.​
> People assume the citizenship of the territory.  On 11 April 1921, three distinct Arab districts, East of the Jordan River and extending to Mesopotamia, were assembled under a single political territory to be known as the Emirate of Transjordan _(British Protectorate equivalent)_, and with the Emir Abdullah.  The people of the Emirate assumed the citizenship of the Emirate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There has been "*Much* Ado About" inalienable and inviolable rights. And while the Universal Declaration for Human Rights (UDHR) establishes a common understanding such rights, it only urges Governments to accept those principles, the UDHR is NOT LAW. "There are nine (9) core international human rights instruments." The 'rights' that you have most often invoked are those found in the
> "International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR); or those documented in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (SESCR).  These are the laws.
> 
> The rights pertaining to the broad category of "self determination" -  "independence and sovereignty" - and "territorial integrity" are very loosely described in the UN Charter.  The key here is that the CCPR covers those rights in the specifics.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not territory of their own, or as you say:   "people inside their defined territory"  If the Arab Palestinians had such a defined territory, it would have already been brought to the surface.  The idea that the Arab Palestinians claim the entirety of the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine" as their defined territory is absolutely ludacris.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a statement with no real context.  It sounds right, but then applied to what.  The Arab Palestinians are, themselves confused, as to what their boundaries are.  Don't talk about international boundaries and them make me recite how you twisted the phrase.  Remember, prior to 1948, Palestine was a non-self-governing territory (NSGT) administratively established to accommodate the Mandate authority.  The indigenous population was citizens of a territory that they had neither "rights" nor "title."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The indigenous population was citizens of a territory that they had neither "rights" nor "title."


You don't make any sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians have not territory of their own, or as you say: "people inside their defined territory" If the Arab Palestinians had such a defined territory, it would have already been brought to the surface. The idea that the Arab Palestinians claim the entirety of the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine" as their defined territory is absolutely ludacris.


Explain how this is not true.

*Deputy Secretary of Fatah Revolutionary Council, Majed Al-Fatiani: *"It is not enough that only the residents of Jerusalem stand against [the occupation] in its streets, alleys, and neighborhoods... This act needs to spread over all of the Palestinian land between the [Jordan] River and the [Mediterranean] Sea. Our identity is between the river and the sea. Our national popular sovereignty is between the river and the sea." 





__





						Fatah official includes all of Israel in “Palestine,” says “all of the Palestinian land” is “between the [Jordan] River and the [Mediterranean] Sea” | PMW Translations
					

Official PA TV program Palestine This Morning, on the 53rd anniversary of the Launch of Fatah Deputy Secretary of Fatah Revolutionary Council, Majed Al-Fatiani: "It is not enough that only the residents of Jerusalem stand against [the occupation] in its streets, alleys, and neighborhoods... This..."




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well, you could get partial credit.  But most of the reply is incorre3ct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This layman's interpretation is based on Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949), wherein, the applicable clauses are ambiguous.  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  Article 49(2) gives an exception:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 49(2) GCIV said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake *total* or *partial evacuation* of a given area if the *security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand*. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.​Source:  Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949)​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is entirely screwed-up.  About the only thing you got right was the part:  "Allied Powers decided"
> 
> ◈  The Allied Powers DID NOT divide the region into five states.  It created three (3) Mandates  (Article 1 Franco-British Convention of December 1920) .​​✦  The French mandate of Syria and Lebanon on the one hand.​​✦  The British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other.​​*Comment Note*:​There were several other Mandates, but no pertaining to the topic under discussion.​
> People assume the citizenship of the territory.  On 11 April 1921, three distinct Arab districts, East of the Jordan River and extending to Mesopotamia, were assembled under a single political territory to be known as the Emirate of Transjordan _(British Protectorate equivalent)_, and with the Emir Abdullah.  The people of the Emirate assumed the citizenship of the Emirate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There has been "*Much* Ado About" inalienable and inviolable rights. And while the Universal Declaration for Human Rights (UDHR) establishes a common understanding such rights, it only urges Governments to accept those principles, the UDHR is NOT LAW. "There are nine (9) core international human rights instruments." The 'rights' that you have most often invoked are those found in the
> "International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR); or those documented in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (SESCR).  These are the laws.
> 
> The rights pertaining to the broad category of "self determination" -  "independence and sovereignty" - and "territorial integrity" are very loosely described in the UN Charter.  The key here is that the CCPR covers those rights in the specifics.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not territory of their own, or as you say:   "people inside their defined territory"  If the Arab Palestinians had such a defined territory, it would have already been brought to the surface.  The idea that the Arab Palestinians claim the entirety of the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine" as their defined territory is absolutely ludacris.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a statement with no real context.  It sounds right, but then applied to what.  The Arab Palestinians are, themselves confused, as to what their boundaries are.  Don't talk about international boundaries and them make me recite how you twisted the phrase.  Remember, prior to 1948, Palestine was a non-self-governing territory (NSGT) administratively established to accommodate the Mandate authority.  The indigenous population was citizens of a territory that they had neither "rights" nor "title."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The indigenous population was citizens of a territory that they had neither "rights" nor "title."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...

You're confused by clearly defined language.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not territory of their own, or as you say: "people inside their defined territory" If the Arab Palestinians had such a defined territory, it would have already been brought to the surface. The idea that the Arab Palestinians claim the entirety of the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine" as their defined territory is absolutely ludacris.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain how this is not true.
> 
> *Deputy Secretary of Fatah Revolutionary Council, Majed Al-Fatiani: *"It is not enough that only the residents of Jerusalem stand against [the occupation] in its streets, alleys, and neighborhoods... This act needs to spread over all of the Palestinian land between the [Jordan] River and the [Mediterranean] Sea. Our identity is between the river and the sea. Our national popular sovereignty is between the river and the sea."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah official includes all of Israel in “Palestine,” says “all of the Palestinian land” is “between the [Jordan] River and the [Mediterranean] Sea” | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> Official PA TV program Palestine This Morning, on the 53rd anniversary of the Launch of Fatah Deputy Secretary of Fatah Revolutionary Council, Majed Al-Fatiani: "It is not enough that only the residents of Jerusalem stand against [the occupation] in its streets, alleys, and neighborhoods... This..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
Click to expand...

Did someone in the Fatah Revolutionary council (keep the laughter to a minimum, kuffar), waving a magic koran make something true?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  This is an example of incitement to violence.  It is what makes the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) subject to the exceptions.

◈  Must be lawfully in the territory of a State Party to the present Covenant ("International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR).​◈  Must not represent national security, public order, or public health threat.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Explain how this is not true.
> 
> *Deputy Secretary of Fatah Revolutionary Council, Majed Al-Fatiani: *"It is not enough that only the residents of Jerusalem stand against [the occupation] in its streets, alleys, and neighborhoods... This act needs to spread over all of the Palestinian land between the [Jordan] River and the [Mediterranean] Sea. Our identity is between the river and the sea. Our national popular sovereignty is between the river and the sea."


*(COMMENT)*
​This probably is true (to me very believable) that the Deputy-Secretary of the Fatah Revolutionary Council promoted and expressed these remarks.
​◈  This is just a political statement that promotes the incitement of criminal acts of violence.​◈  This is just a political statement that promotes extremism and intolerance.​◈  This is just a political statement that promotes poses a growing danger to the human rights of the Jewish People.​◈  This is just a political statement that threatens  the  social  and  economic  development  of  all  States,​​It is not a matter of truth that we should be concerned with.  It is a matter of spreading the promotion of "discrimination, hostility or violence."  One of the Great Human Rights Laws that P F Tinmore beats us over the head with is:
​


			
				Article 20 CCPR said:
			
		

> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
> ​


​
Finally, the Fatah Revolutionary Council statement is that of an objective that if carried-out would jeopardize the only safe haven for the Jewish National Home that would accept without reservation the immigration of Jewish people being oppressed by such governments that target these people for whatever the reason.  The execution of spreading such intent between the river and the sea will only promote an atmosphere of distrust and hatred.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ Must be lawfully in the territory of a State Party to the present Covenant ("International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR).


That is a good read. If Israel followed that, most of the problems would take care of themselves.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Must be lawfully in the territory of a State Party to the present Covenant ("International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> That is a good read. If Israel followed that, most of the problems would take care of themselves.
Click to expand...

Islamic ideology as delineated in the Hamas Charter refutes your comment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Must be lawfully in the territory of a State Party to the present Covenant ("International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> That is a good read. If Israel followed that, most of the problems would take care of themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic ideology as delineated in the Hamas Charter refutes your comment.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Must be lawfully in the territory of a State Party to the present Covenant ("International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> That is a good read. If Israel followed that, most of the problems would take care of themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic ideology as delineated in the Hamas Charter refutes your comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
Click to expand...

Indeed, your usual deflection.

Ignoring the reality of Islamist ideology doesn’t lessen the dangers presented by the ideology.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the status quo is the path sought by Fatah.




*PA defies coming Biden administration: Palestinian terrorist prisoners will continue to receive “full rights”*









						PA defies coming Biden administration: Palestinian terrorist prisoners will continue to receive “full rights” | PMW Analysis
					

The New York Times apparently was deceived by the Palestinian Authority, which resulted in the prominent Times’ story this week headlined: “Seeking Restart With Biden, Palestinians Eye End to Prisoner Payments.”




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus, Nan Jacques Zilberdik, and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 26, 2020

*The PA apparently deceived The New York Times, which falsely reported:

“Seeking Restart With Biden, Palestinians Eye End to Prisoner Payments.”
Jibril Rajoub, Fatah Central Committee Sec.:
“In no way will any decision be made that detracts from any right [the prisoners] receive today. On the contrary - if we want to change it, we will make it better.”

Commissioner of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr:
“There will be no bargaining over the prisoners’ rights… the prisoners’ rights will be realized. We also deny that the prisoners’ allowances will be paid through social institutions. These news [reports in the NY Times] are completely unfounded.”*


----------



## Hollie

Replacing the the Islamic gee-had with modern culture. 




			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/19/pompeo-just-visited-west-bank-thats-likely-deepen-partisan-division-over-israel-palestine/
		


Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s stop at a West Bank winery Thursday is the first visit by a U.S. secretary of state to an Israeli settlement — and another sign of the Trump administration’s move away from long-standing principles and positions that had guided the approach of previous administrations, Democratic and Republican alike.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Welfare contributions to the world's largest Islamic terrorist welfare agency are lacking. Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorist misfits convicted of murder and other violent crimes as a part of the Islamic gee-had may not get their Fatah fun-money. A push over the "cliff’s edge" is just what they need.



https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/un-palestine-agency-on-edge-due-to-financial-crisis/2057279 to financial crisis


The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) said on Thursday it is on the "cliff’s edge" due to lack of funding.

Speaking at a news conference, UNRWA Commissioner-General Philippe Lazzarini said that the agency is facing a great financial crisis.

"UNRWA received this year the lowest level of contributions since 2012, at a time when the needs of refugees are compounded by the effects of the pandemic on their meager resources," Lazzarini said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*palestinian tiktoks because we support palestine*


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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

While Israel has an apparent willingness for normalization (reference to the Pal territories), there is still the issue of two separate and competing entities, Hamas and Fatah, with differing interests and agendas. All of the peace or normalization efforts with one or more Pal representatives have failed. With the Pals now aligned with Iran and alienating Arab nations in the region, the Pals have fewer options now than in the past, 








__





						No preconditions for Palestine talks: Israeli FM
					





					www.msn.com
				





When it comes to its conflict with Palestine, Israel has "moved from annexation to normalisation", foreign minister Gabi Ashkenazi has said, stressing that "annexation is off the table".

As it normalised relations with the UAE and Bahrain by signing the US-brokered peace deal on September 15, Israel has agreed to halt annexations in the West Bank in Palestine.

"I have said...again and again in almost every international arena...that three months ago, Israel has moved from annexation to normalisation. And politically, I believe in it. I think it is the right direction. We have to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and that we will separate from the Palestine," Ashkenazi, Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs, told Khaleej Times in an exclusive interview on Thursday.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Using children for the islamist gee-had is a failed strategy.


----------



## Hollie

Sheikh'n the house. 

The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians' are expert at blaming everyone but themselves for their self-created failures.




Sheikh Kamal Khatib: Saudi Arabia Complicit in Plan to Abolish Palestinians' "Right of Return"


----------



## Hollie

The result of an insular, cult-like society that glorifies death and destruction.











						Palestinian man shot dead after alleged car-ramming attack
					

Israeli forces shot a man at a checkpoint near occupied East Jerusalem after trying to flee an inspection, police said.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Israeli forces have shot and killed a Palestinian man at a checkpoint after an alleged car-ramming attack outside of Jerusalem, according to local media and police reports.


----------



## Hollie

It’s an Islamic terrorist lovefest. A roll call of psychopaths who are adored for the damage they did to the Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians. 

*Abbas’ advisor on "beloved" arch-terrorists: Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, Abu Jihad, Abu Iyad









						Abbas’ advisor on "beloved" arch-terrorists: Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, Abu Jihad, Abu Iyad | PMW Analysis
					

During a TV program on Islam, Abbas’ advisor on religious affairs taught viewers that Palestinian arch-terrorists are “dear” and “great Martyrs”




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 29, 2020
During a TV program on Islam, Abbas’ advisor on religious affairs and the PA’s Supreme Shari’ah Judge Mahmoud Al-Habbash taught viewers that Palestinian arch-terrorists, who have orchestrated attacks in which hundreds of Israeli civilians have been murdered, are “dear” and “great Martyrs”:
















> *Supreme Shari’ah Judge and Abbas’ advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash:* “We have already bid farewell to our beloved ones, our leaders, and our Martyrs, including [former PLO leader and PA President] Martyr Yasser Arafat, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (i.e., founder of Hamas terror organization), Martyr Abu Jihad (i.e., terrorist, responsible for murder of 125), Martyr Abu Iyad (i.e., head of Black September terror organization), and other great Martyrs.”
> [Official PA TV, _Reexamination_, Nov. 11, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


There's a boycott movement targeting her. Haven't you heard?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a boycott movement targeting her. Haven't you heard?
Click to expand...

So?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Look at all of those"Arabs."

*


----------



## Hollie

“When Pali terrorism ends“ is a nice thought but not a realistic assessment.
Religions don’t have quite the excuse of a political ideology to hand-wave off their infliction of suffering and death. When, in the case of Islamic ideology you have a political ideology masked by a religious element, you have a potent mix for doing harm. 










						Peace Will Come When Palestinian Terror Ends
					

From the blog of Uri Pilichowski at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				




The Palestinian Authority incentivizes terror through naming city squares after terrorists, teaching school age children about the glory of suicide bombings, and “pay for slay” that gives stipends to Palestinian terrorists. Two-thirds of Palestinians supported stabbings against Israelis, with the same percentage backing a larger armed uprising. In a survey, less than half of Palestinians in the “West Bank”, and Gaza support a two-state solution. Palestinians attempt an average of three terror attacks a day.


----------



## Hollie

It is an interesting paradox. Billions of dollars from Arab nations poured into US colleges and universities while relatively little showered on the Pals.  











						Taxpayer-funded Islamic terrorists sent millions to US colleges
					

The PLO and its defenders keep claiming that they’re struggling with a state of miserable poverty. Meanwhile, they’re funding chairs at American universities.




					www.jns.org
				




“A new study that I compiled for the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise found that U.S. institutions received more than $10 billion in foreign gifts from Arab sources from 1981 to October 2020. While it is not surprising the wealthy Gulf countries were responsible for the lion’s share, it was startling to see the non-existent ‘State of Palestine’ made nine gifts worth $4.5 million in the last four years. While the amount may sound relatively trivial, the impact can be exponential.”


----------



## Hollie

She just can’t help herself. 

As the article describes: “Reminder - this is a sitting U.S. Congresswoman.”
I would point out this is an angry Islamic ideologue, winner of the far left “identity politics” lottery. 









						Tlaib Promotes Phrase That's 'Code for Eradicating the State of Israel'
					






					townhall.com
				




Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib raised eyebrows Sunday after she retweeted a message with a phrase that’s associated with calling for an end to the state of Israel. 

“Rashida Tlaib RT's out the same message that got Marc Lamont Hill canned from CNN,” StopAntisemitism.org tweeted. “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free - code for eradicating the State of Israel and its millions of Jews. Reminder - this is a sitting U.S. Congresswoman.”


----------



## Hollie

The Ummah’s kids. Aren’t they so cute?  The next generation of Death Cultists learning the way of the gee-had. 



*Palestinian kids taught to identify as “refugees” about to “return” to Israeli cities









						Palestinian kids taught to identify as “refugees” about to “return” to Israeli cities | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian children who were born decades after Israel’s establishment in 1948 and decades after the Oslo Accords peace agreement are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories.




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Dec 1, 2020

*12-year-old Palestinian boy:
“The Jews stole our land”
“Every day, every minute I imagine that I’m in Lod (i.e., Israeli city)”
“I will return and liberate Palestine”
“Of course we will return and live in those houses”*



Palestinian children who were born decades after Israel’s establishment in 1948 and decades after the Oslo Accords peace agreement are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories. They are brought up to believe that in the future they will “liberate Palestine” and live in a world with no Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Restoration of ties with Israel sparks anger in Palestine
					

GAZA CITY: The Palestinian Authority (PA) announced on Tuesday that it will restore coordination with Israel — a move that has been met with widespread factional rejection in the country, with the PA accused of “undermining” internal reconciliation efforts. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas...




					www.arabnews.com
				





GAZA CITY: The Palestinian Authority (PA) announced on Tuesday that it will restore coordination with Israel — a move that has been met with widespread factional rejection in the country, with the PA accused of “undermining” internal reconciliation efforts.


Translation: Abbas needs cash flow to keep the Islamo-mobs at arms length.


----------



## Hollie

Everyone's friend, Yousef Makharzah (he's a Pali Islamic scholar in case you didn't know), was rockin' the islamo-house with the expected vitriol that's reserved for the Great Satan in particular and western civilization in general.


----------



## Hollie

The earlier bluster from Abbas about ending all cooperation with Israel has apparently been cast aside in favor of “Show Me the Money”











						Israel releases over $1bn of withheld tax funds to Palestinians
					

Transfer of the money comes weeks after coordination was renewed between the two sides.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Israel has released more than $1bn in tax money withheld from the Palestinian Authority, a Palestinian minister said, weeks after coordination was renewed between the two sides.


----------



## Hollie

I believe the title of the linked article fails to address some obvious realities. While I believe it is true that the World Bank chooses to ignore the fraud, theft and Islamic terrorist elements that are a part of the welfare money showered on the Pals, those elements are largely ignored by all of the entities throwing money at the Pals. 




*The moral bankruptcy of the World Bank*









						The moral bankruptcy of the World Bank | PMW Analysis
					

As the World Bank is undoubtedly aware of the PA’s terror reward payments, why does it automatically assume that the services to be affected by the PA’s cash shortfall are the “medical” and “social” expenditures?




					palwatch.org
				




By Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 3, 2020
The Nov. 24, 2020 report analyzing the financial situation of the Palestinian Authority clearly demonstrated the moral bankruptcy of the World Bank. While the report mentioned a host of factors that will contribute to and be affected by the PA’s assessed financial shortfall of $760 million, the World Bank completely ignored the PA’s generous terror reward policy, through which the PA squanders hundreds of millions of dollars every year.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Islamic Scholar Issam Amira: Following A MEMRI TV Clip, I Was Interrogated By Israeli Police For Praising The Beheading Of French Teacher Paty, Banned From Entering Al-Aqsa For Six Months; Nevertheless, Insulting Muhammad Is A Line That Must Not Be Crossed





Oh, my. What happened to this poor, oppressed “Islamic Scholar” (nyuck, nyuck, nyuck, soy-ten-lee), is definitely _islamophobic_™️, maybe even _racist_™️


----------



## Hollie

What else? Rabid anti-semites posing as members of the US Congress supporting a group aligned with Islamic terrorists. 












						Omar and Tlaib Headline Anti-Israel Hatefest
					

Democratic representatives Ilhan Omar (Minn.), Rashida Tlaib (Mich.), and Betty McCollum (Minn.) headlined a conference this weekend run by one of the nation’s most prolific anti-Israel advocacy groups.




					freebeacon.com
				




Democratic representatives Ilhan Omar (Minn.), Rashida Tlaib (Mich.), and Betty McCollum (Minn.) headlined a conference this weekend run by one of the nation's most prolific anti-Israel advocacy groups, lending their support to an organization that champions boycotts of Israel and has partnered with individuals tied to terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

A UN representative is again begging the planet for contributions to the Pali terrorist maintenance program otherwise known as UNRWA.










						Renew commitment to Palestinian people, UN chief urges, marking International Day
					

Commemorating the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People, UN Secretary-General António Guterres urged Israeli and Palestinian leaders to explore every opening to “restore hope” for a two-State solution.




					news.un.org
				




Mr. Guterres also voiced concerns over the financial situation facing the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), which provides direct and often life-saving assistance to millions of Palestine refugees.



Odd, that anyone would label these folks “refugees” and expect others to shower Islamic terrorist cult members with welfare.


PA uses music to promote violence: “No force… can remove the weapon from my hand”
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Nov 30, 2020


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of Mahmoud’istan has decreed that elections will be delayed. That decision probably has nothing to do with a boatload of Islamo fun-money passed to the Emir’autocracy (Israel sends the Palestinians more than a billion dollars in withheld funds), but, I could be wrong about that. Some cash handouts will placate the Islamic beast and keep the Emir safe, for now, and his mini-caliphate rolling on for another day. 









						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com
				




Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas is pushing back elections in the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip, dashing Palestinian hopes they would get to vote for the first time since 2006 and fuelling Israeli fears of further conflict with the Islamist group Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

“Peace will come when palestinian terror ends™️”

Pal-Arab terrorism will end when the the planet decides not to provide funding for the Pal gee-had and when Israel decides to respond with uncompromising action to Islamic terrorist attacks. 











						Peace Will Come When Palestinian Terror Ends
					

From the blog of Uri Pilichowski at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				





The Palestinian Authority incentivizes terror through naming city squares after terrorists, teaching school age children about the glory of suicide bombings, and “pay for slay” that gives stipends to Palestinian terrorists. Two-thirds of Palestinians supported stabbings against Israelis, with the same percentage backing a larger armed uprising. In a survey, less than half of Palestinians in the “West Bank”, and Gaza support a two-state solution. Palestinians attempt an average of three terror attacks a day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> “Peace will come when palestinian terror ends™️”
> 
> Pal-Arab terrorism will end when the the planet decides not to provide funding for the Pal gee-had and when Israel decides to respond with uncompromising action to Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace Will Come When Palestinian Terror Ends
> 
> 
> From the blog of Uri Pilichowski at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority incentivizes terror through naming city squares after terrorists, teaching school age children about the glory of suicide bombings, and “pay for slay” that gives stipends to Palestinian terrorists. Two-thirds of Palestinians supported stabbings against Israelis, with the same percentage backing a larger armed uprising. In a survey, less than half of Palestinians in the “West Bank”, and Gaza support a two-state solution. Palestinians attempt an average of three terror attacks a day.


What is your version of peace?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Saeb was sure quick to come looking to Israel for favors despite a long history of looking to destroy Israel. 











						Palestinian Leaders Want Israel Destroyed — Until They Need a Doctor
					

Hospital staff provide medical care for patients at a coronavirus disease (COVID-19) ward, amid a surge in new cases that …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





The coronavirus-related death of senior Palestinian figure Saeb Erekat in Jerusalem’s Hadassah Hospital has rekindled a debate in Israeli society about medicine and morality, and the Palestinians’ cynicism and ingratitude in their relations with Israel.

Erekat, whom I knew personally, is a perfect example: he worked tirelessly not only to delegitimize, but to try to destroy Israel by means of economic strangulation through his unending promotion worldwide of the BDS campaign. He accused Israel of being an “apartheid” country, actively supported the “resistance” (a euphemism for Palestinian terrorism, which aims to kill Israelis), called for a tsunami of millions of “returning Palestinian refugees” to overwhelm Israel and demographically destroy it as the homeland of the Jewish people, and advocated ending coordination between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA).


----------



## Hollie

I choose to be Pal’istanian.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

An Islamic terrorist apologist who is the beneficiary of leftist identity politics pushing a useless study program.

Pushing Islamic terrorism has been a disaster for the Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians”.










						Professors push Palestinians to ‘resist,’ rather than live in peace
					

While whitewashing terrorism, educators like Noura Erakat at Rutgers University mythologize Palestinians’ past and deny Israeli existence.




					www.jns.org
				




(December 1, 2020 / JNS) For Palestinians, the “major shift has to be to a politics of resistance; it has to be about alienating Israel,” stated Rutgers University assistant professor of Africana Studies Noura Erakatduring a Nov. 17 Middle East Institute (MEI) panel webinar. The participants’ radicalism illustrated how the Palestinian national movement’s intellectual barrenness may stymy any foolish return to traditional Israeli-Palestinian peace processes by a future Biden administration.


----------



## Hollie

Poisoning the minds of children with such things as virgins in heaven being a reward for killing / mass murder is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.











						Palestinian Authority Religious-Affairs Adviser Hails Terrorists as ‘Great Martyrs’
					

Mahmoud Al-Habbash, senior adviser to PA President Mahmoud Abbas. Photo: PA TV. JNS.org – Palestinian Authority Supreme Sharia Judge Mahmoud …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




_JNS.org_ – Palestinian Authority Supreme Sharia Judge Mahmoud Al-Habbash earlier this month referred to terrorists as “beloved” and “great martyrs,” Palestinian Media Watch reported on Sunday.

Al-Habbash, PA leader Mahmoud Abbas’s religious-affairs adviser, praised a number of specific Palestinian terrorists during the program “Reexamination,” broadcast Nov. 11 on official _PA TV_


----------



## rylah

*Official: Palestine, Jordan, Egypt to setup peace conference*

Deputy leader of Palestine's Fatah movement, Mahmoud Al-Aloul, said a committee which includes Palestinian, Jordanian and Egyptian officials has been formed to coordinate the Palestinian call for holding an international peace conference.

Speaking to the _Voice of Palestine Radio_ yesterday, Al-Aloul said as a result of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' visit to Jordan and Egypt, there will be a committee and coordination for joint work to achieve this vision.

Al-Aloul explained that there is a need for a greater effort to correct the imbalance caused by the administration of the US President Donald Trump.

Abbas visited Jordan on Sunday where he met with King Abdullah II, followed by a visit to Egypt where he met with President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.

A spokesman for the Egyptian presidency, Bassam Radi, said in a statement that during the meeting, "there was an agreement to continue intensive consultations and coordination between the two presidents in order to follow up on the steps that will be taken during the coming period, seeking to resolve the current situation by returning to the path of negotiations."

On Monday, a member of Fatah's Central Committee, Azzam Al-Ahmad, said that Jordan and Egypt had adopted Abbas' vision to hold an international conference for the peace process, under the auspices of the United Nations.

On 25 September, Abbas asked United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to call for an international peace conference in early 2021 to achieve the two-state solution, end the Israeli occupation and establish an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.














						Official: Palestine, Jordan, Egypt to setup peace conference
					

Deputy leader of Palestine's Fatah movement, Mahmoud Al-Aloul, said a committee which includes Palestinian, Jordanian and Egyptian officials has been formed to coordinate the Palestinian call for ho...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com


----------



## rylah

*The Palestinians, Happiness, and the “Occupation”*

*EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: In an academic ranking of countries according to happiness level, the “Palestinian Territories” are far from the bottom of the list – something of a surprise, as the never-ending lamentations about the “Israeli occupation” would suggest a different outcome. The real tragedy is Tunisia, which achieved democracy but has not registered expected economic dividends. Its citizens are more discontented than the Palestinians.*

It might sound frivolous to attempt to measure happiness. Still, for a Columbia University think tank and two respectable Canadian policy institutes, the measuring of happiness and the ranking of states by happiness score is serious business.

Judging by the top and bottom countries on the list of 157 states for which scores were recorded, their findings seem plausible.

Finland, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Sweden, New Zealand, and Canada boast the highest happiness scores. The list ranks countries by positive characteristics like GDP per capita, the Human Development Index (the aggregate of economic, educational, and life expectancy data), and human freedom and democracy.

The same countries also rank lowest in characteristics universally judged to be adverse to human quality of life, such as crime rate, traffic accidents measured by death and injury, and suicide rate. (The widespread belief that Scandinavian countries suffer from high suicide rates is far from accurate.)

Nor do the states with the lowest happiness scores generate much surprise.  Haiti, Botswana, Yemen, Rwanda, Tanzania, Afghanistan, the Central African Republic, and South Sudan are all known for their lack of democracy, rampant corruption, and very low levels of economic welfare. Most are also notable for their political instability, which – in the case of Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, the Central African Republic, and South Sudan – can be characterized as long-term, full-scale civil wars.

It is not surprising, therefore, that the happiest countries are those people risk their lives to reach. The countries at the bottom are those that many flee in search of a better life elsewhere.

What is striking is the ranking for “the Palestinian Territories” in comparison to other countries. With a score of 4.7, it is 111th out of 157.

An academic study found that 60% of United Nations General Assembly resolutions condemning the behavior of states toward either their own or other populations were addressed to Israel – in a world in which well over half the world’s population (nearly four billion people) lives in despotic states. This includes North Korea, where the regime has been brutally terrorizing its 25 million citizens for over seventy years.

Were Israel as vile as that UNGA record suggests, one might reasonably expect that the “Palestinian Territories” would be at the bottom of the list, along with Yemen, Afghanistan, and Sudan. The essential error is that the Territories, which are supposedly under “occupation,” exist in reality under two separate despotic regimes, neither of which is Israeli: the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas, and Gaza under Hamas.

Even acknowledging that reality, one might anticipate that Palestinian happiness under those despotic regimes would place them at the bottom of the list. But there appears to be more relative happiness among the population of the Territories than in an assortment of Middle Eastern states, some of which are among the most vociferous in their condemnation of Israel’s “occupation” of the Palestinians. Energy-rich Iran, for example, ranks seven slots _lower_ on the happiness index than the Palestinian Territories.

Even less happiness prevails in Egypt, whose regime frequently initiates UN condemnations of Israel’s “occupation.” Egypt is close to the bottom of the list at 138, significantly lower than the Palestinians who toil “under occupation.”

It is the comparison with Jordan that occasions the greatest surprise. If Israel’s “occupation” is so onerous, how come the happiness rate in Jordan is only slightly higher than that of the Palestinians living under that “occupation?” Jordan, with a ranking of 102, is only eight slots higher than the Palestinian Territories.

Recall that the ranking aggregates Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, while the former has higher income levels than are found in the latter. Were the ranking to differentiate between the two, Palestinians living in the West Bank could plausibly generate a score at least equal to that of Jordan, where there is no “Israeli occupation.”

The Palestinian ranking would be more impressive were all 193 member states of the UN to be surveyed. The index is overwhelmingly represented by richer states, which are easier to survey than poorer states. One country notable for its absence on the list is North Korea, where a survey such as this would be impossible to administer. (The North Korean regime would probably justify the country’s absence from the list on the grounds that its citizens are the happiest of people.)

The real tragedy the index exposes is that of Tunisia, not the Palestinians.

Tunisia is the only country from the so-called “Arab Spring” to have in any way met the expectations of those that gave the uprisings that name. Since the ouster of the old regime in December 2010, Tunisia has successfully changed its constitution, held three free elections, and seen a party broadly affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, an-Nahda, join a government coalition and then relinquish power peacefully, according to the democratic rules of the game. It is the only country in the Arab world to be designated as “free” by Freedom House, a think tank that ranks democratic and human rights.

Nevertheless, despite these achievements, Tunisia ranks lower in happiness than the Palestinians, with a ranking of 125. The failure of democracy to yield economic dividends – economic stagnation and high unemployment rates prevail instead – takes a toll on the citizenry, many of whom are young people.

The Tunisian case offers a lesson to the Palestinians and their “Peace Now” supporters. In politics, there are few cases of simple solutions to complex problems.

Just as democracy for Tunisia did not automatically translate into prosperity or happiness, there is no guarantee that a full-fledged independent Palestinian state, even if it could come about despite deep internal rifts, would be a panacea for the problems Palestinians face.









						The Palestinians, Happiness, and the “Occupation”
					

In an academic ranking of countries according to happiness level, the “Palestinian Territories” are far from the bottom of the list – something of a surprise, as the never-ending lamentations ab




					besacenter.org


----------



## Hollie

Pretty much the definition of a frivolous lawsuit.  "Demanding a confession"? 

A confession for what? There never being such a thing as "Pali people".

This is something that defines an obvious end result of placating the whims of islamic terrorists.  The Palis have learned that their depraved tactics gain them the attention of the world and, quite often, reward for bad behavior.






*Palestinians sue Britain - as thanks for over half a billion dollars in aid*

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 6, 2020

*Palestinians rewrite history and sue Great Britain demanding it confess that the Balfour Declaration “destroyed the life of an entire Palestinian people.”*
Britain has donated no less than £473,038,638.64 ($632,443,199) to various Palestinian causes in the last five years alone [UK Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office website], and will continue in 2021. In an ironic expression of gratitude, a group of Palestinians submitted a lawsuit to the Palestinian Authority court system against Britain for issuing the Balfour Declaration and for alleged “crimes” of British soldiers against the Palestinian people during the Mandate period.
While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:


> “The lawsuit, which has a political impact and a media aspect,* lays the responsibility on the government of Britain for the consequences of the Balfour Promise, which gave Palestine as a national homeland to the Jews and enabled the Zionist gangs to occupy Palestine, and the consequences that stem from its behavior that contradicts international rules, morals, and law.”*
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 23, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

One of the real problems with PC culture and one of its side effects; identity politics, is that people such as Rashida Tlaib with no real qualifications for the office she holds and a political-religious agenda that is consumed by Jew hatred finds a congressional seat she has no business occupying. 





			GOP congressman calls on Tlaib to lose committee assignments after 'disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism'
		


Rep. Guy Reschenthaler called for Rep. Rashida Tlaib to be removed from her congressional committees, saying she engaged in a “disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism” in recent weeks.


----------



## Hollie

I found it shocking, well not really, that the "executive director" of something called the "Palestine Institute for Public Diplomacy" (how much western welfare money does that front group siphon from the trough), is trying to change the title of "convicted islamic terrorist" to "political prisoner". The various Pali terror organizations and front groups are making tremendous efforts to murder and maim innocent Israeli men, children and women in furtherance of Islamic politico-religious ideology. When those Pali islamic terrorists are caught and convicted, they're correctly labeled as "convicted islamic terrorist".










						Foreign Policy Op-Ed : Convicted Palestinian Terrorists Are 'Political Prisoners'
					

Foreign Policy gives a pass to to Salem Barahmeh of the Palestine Institute for Public Diplomacy to whitewash convicted Palestinian terrorists who carried out




					www.camera.org
				




In a Nov. 20 “argument” piece in Foreign Policy, Salem Barahmeh, executive director of the Palestine Institute for Public Diplomacy, whitewashed convicted Palestinian terrorists who carried out lethal attacks against Israelis as “political prisoners” (“Biden Can’t Free Palestine“).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> One of the real problems with PC culture and one of its side effects; identity politics, is that people such as Rashida Tlaib with no real qualifications for the office she holds and a political-religious agenda that is consumed by Jew hatred finds a congressional seat she has no business occupying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP congressman calls on Tlaib to lose committee assignments after 'disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism'
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Guy Reschenthaler called for Rep. Rashida Tlaib to be removed from her congressional committees, saying she engaged in a “disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism” in recent weeks.


Load of hooey.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the real problems with PC culture and one of its side effects; identity politics, is that people such as Rashida Tlaib with no real qualifications for the office she holds and a political-religious agenda that is consumed by Jew hatred finds a congressional seat she has no business occupying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP congressman calls on Tlaib to lose committee assignments after 'disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism'
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Guy Reschenthaler called for Rep. Rashida Tlaib to be removed from her congressional committees, saying she engaged in a “disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism” in recent weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic gee-had rolls on. 










						Border Police, Palestinians injured in West Bank clashes
					

Clashes in the West Bank injured several Palestinians just days after a minor was shot and killed by IDF fire.




					m.jpost.com
				





Quoting the Palestinian Ministry of Health, WAFA reported that the injured had been shot in the chest, stomach and a third in the main artery in the leg. A fourth was moderately injured in his leg.

According to Israel Police, six officers were injured in the clashes during which Palestinians threw blocks and stones at the officers who responded with both live-fire and nonlethal weapons “after being in a life-threatening situation.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic gee-had rolls on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Border Police, Palestinians injured in West Bank clashes
> 
> 
> Clashes in the West Bank injured several Palestinians just days after a minor was shot and killed by IDF fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting the Palestinian Ministry of Health, WAFA reported that the injured had been shot in the chest, stomach and a third in the main artery in the leg. A fourth was moderately injured in his leg.
> 
> According to Israel Police, six officers were injured in the clashes during which Palestinians threw blocks and stones at the officers who responded with both live-fire and nonlethal weapons “after being in a life-threatening situation.”


Israel has border police but no borders.

You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has border police but no borders.
> 
> You can't make this stuff up.


You just made that up.


----------



## Hollie

Justice has caught up with another Islamic terrorist. 











						Palestinian Terrorist Suspected in 1982 Paris Kosher Restaurant Attack Formally Charged With Murder
					

Police and emergency services personnel arrive at the Chez Jo Goldenberg restaurant in Paris, following a terrorist attack there, Aug. …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




A Palestinian terrorist was charged with murder and attempted murder in a Paris court on Saturday for a deadly 1982 terror attack on a kosher restaurant.

Walid Abdulrahman Abu Zayed was officially charged by the magistrate a day after he arrived in France from Norway following a long extradition process, Radio France Internationale reported.


----------



## Hollie

Rewards offered by the Islamic terrorist franchises known as “pay to slay” aren’t what they used to be. 











						Court Rejects Petition Against Seizure of Palestinian Authority Funds to Israeli-Arab Terrorists
					

The seizure of terrorist money paid by the PA to Israeli citizens is a move being led in the past year by the Ministry of Defense’ National Bureau for Counter Terror Financing, in cooperation with Israel’s combined security forces and the Ministry of Justice.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The Tel Aviv Administrative Court on Monday rejected a petition filed by 15 terrorists imprisoned in Israel and their families against administrative orders to seize hundreds of thousands of shekels received by them from the Palestinian Authority (PA) as a reward for the terrorist attacks they carried out.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the report, Ashrawi is angry that the Palestinian Authority has restored its relations with Israel last month..

There was no comment from Ashrawi.

This seems to be the same sort of resignation theatre that Mahmoud Abbas likes to do, and that Saeb Erekat had engaged in himself, to make a dramatic threat which in the end does not happen. 

But isn't it interesting that the "moderate" Ashrawi, darling of international news networks, is against the idea of the PA even talking to Israel?










						Report: Hanan Ashrawi pretends to offer her resignation - in protest of the PA cooperating with Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Maintaining an Islamic terrorist franchise is a vastly expensive operation. Including direct payments to Islamic terrorists, money for expensive homes, cars and bank accounts for the terrorist leadership, presidential jets, weapons and ammo for the gee-had, etc., Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., needs your contribution.












						UN aid agency for Palestine on the verge of collapse
					

TRT World




					www.trtworld.com
				




The UN aid agency for Palestinian refugees is on the verge of financial collapse after US President Donald Trump withdrew funding in 2018. However, the agency is hopeful that Joe Biden will reverse the decision. Mustafa Fatih Yavuz reports. Palestine-Israel Conflict




"The UN aid agency for Palestinian refugees is on the verge of financial collapse after US President Donald Trump withdrew funding in 2018"

In other words, "the Great Satan is to blame. They took away the Islamic terrorist entitlement for gee-had money."


----------



## Hollie

Just in time for Christmas and Chanukah. You need some new cutlery for those holiday season dinners with friends and family. Representatives from ''The Religion of Peace'' have a holiday promotion. 

*“fascinate us with values”. *Those lovely Islamic values of destruction and killing, since 632CE. 



*PA: “I'm coming towards you, my enemy… with cleavers and knives” - a song that “fascinate us with values”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 8, 2020

*PA: “Wave the rifle… we will not cast our weapons from our hands”*
_The Tune of the Homeland_ is a PA TV quiz about Palestinian nationalistic songs. Each quiz question is introduced by a narrator telling viewers that the songs “express our national identity… and fascinate us with values.” Some of the songs glorified by the PA in this quiz – and which are broadcast repeatedly – specifically promote violence and terror.

_I’m Coming Towards You, My Enemy_ explicitly calls for murder and promises Israel – “my enemy” - to attack with rifles, cleavers and knives:









> *Official PA TV narrator: *“Because songs are a basic part of our culture and they express our national identity… and because these songs are present in our consciousness and still fascinate us with values and meanings… It’s here: _The Tune of the Homeland…_
> *Lyrics:* “I'm coming towards you, my enemy, from every house, neighborhood and street
> I'm coming with my rifle and my faith I'm coming towards you, my enemy
> Our war is a war of the streets…
> I'm coming towards you, my enemy, from every house, neighborhood and street
> We're going down from every house with cleavers and knives”
> [Official PA TV, Nov. 27, 30, Dec. 1. 3, 2020]


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Rewards offered by the Islamic terrorist franchises known as “pay to slay” aren’t what they used to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Court Rejects Petition Against Seizure of Palestinian Authority Funds to Israeli-Arab Terrorists
> 
> 
> The seizure of terrorist money paid by the PA to Israeli citizens is a move being led in the past year by the Ministry of Defense’ National Bureau for Counter Terror Financing, in cooperation with Israel’s combined security forces and the Ministry of Justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Tel Aviv Administrative Court on Monday rejected a petition filed by 15 terrorists imprisoned in Israel and their families against administrative orders to seize hundreds of thousands of shekels received by them from the Palestinian Authority (PA) as a reward for the terrorist attacks they carried out.



The TEL-AVIV court rejected a petition by 15 terrorists??

That's huge, but probably something only Israelis will understand.
No seriously, I'm shocked and pleasantly surprised.

Thanks for the update, great news.


----------



## Hollie

Between belief in lurid conspiracy theories and a willing acceptance for anti-Semitic material, the Palis are always too willing to be subjects of self-inflicted ridicule. 




*The antisemitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is “an important book,” says PA TV*

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 9, 2020



Already in 1921, _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_ was exposed as a malicious antisemitic forgery, still Hitler disseminated it in the 1930s to generate hatred of Jews. The significant detail that the book is a forgery has not stopped the Palestinian Authority from presenting it to its people as an authentic Jewish document, describing in precise detail the Jews’ plan to subjugate humanity. It was published in Russia in 1903, translated into multiple languages, feeding Antisemitism everywhere it was published.

Now PA TV has again presented it not only as a true work but an “important book” in an educational PA TV filler about a Lebanese historian who translated it. The historian named Ajaj Nuwayhed, who PA TV describes as having made a deep “cultural and intellectual contribution,” was quoted in the introduction to the second edition of his translation  of _The Protocols_ from 1980, as follows:


> "When we asked for the author’s [Nuwayhed's] permission to print a second edition we asked him to write a new introduction, and he responded: 'What has changed in the Zionist plan such that we should change the first edition's introduction?' Between the two editions a period of 15 years have passed that were packed with events constituting an irrefutable indication that everything that appears in _the Protocols_ [of the Elders of Zion] has been done by the elders of the Zionist enemy, and emphasizing that the enemy is determined to continue his criminal plan."


----------



## Hollie

While ME / NA nations are normalizing relations with Israel, this is infuriating  the PA and Hamas. They are hoping Obama’s third term under the guise of Harris - Biden will bring the return of boatloads of cash for the Pali Islamic terrorist syndicates. For decades, the Great Satan™️ had been the source of hundreds of millions of dollars in fun-money that the Pali terrorists presumed was a forever entitlement. That all changed with the Trump administration. The various Pali Islamic terrorist franchises are now hoping for a return of their gee-had / slush fund money courtesy of the American taxpayer.











						UAE and Palestine at odds over future of Israel normalisation accords
					

While the Emirates are interpreting the return of Palestinian envoys as acceptance of Gulf deals with Israel, the Palestinian Authority hangs its hopes on Biden




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




On Thursday, Emirati Foreign Minister Anwar Gargash expressed his country’s optimism over the recent decision by the Palestinian Authority (PA) to resume diplomatic contacts with his country as well as Bahrain, seeing it as a sign that the Palestinian leadership was slowly coming to terms with the so-called Abraham Accords.

*..*.


But the Emirati official’s statements have been rebuffed by PA Foreign Minister Riyad al-Malki, who has replied with visible irritation that the Emiratis “are dreaming” and that the normalisation agreements would collapse once their major sponsor, outgoing US President Donald Trump, leaves the White House.


----------



## Hollie

It's a bit like stealing a page from the Soviet collectivism. Punishment for the crime of selling land to a Jew means life in prison with hard labor in the Islamic Gulag of the West Bank. 




*Abbas’ Fatah threatens Arabs selling land to Jews in Jerusalem*









						Abbas’ Fatah threatens Arabs selling land to Jews in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
					

According to Palestinian Authority law, it is a criminal offence for Palestinians to sell land to Jews. The punishment for committing such an offence is life in prison with hard labor.




					palwatch.org
				




By Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 11, 2020
According to Palestinian Authority law, it is a criminal offence for Palestinians to sell land to Jews. The punishment for committing such an offence is life in prison with hard labor.

Fearing that even the draconian law is insufficient to prevent Palestinians who live in Jerusalem from selling their land to Jews, Fatah, headed by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, released a clear threat saying that Israel will not be able to prevent Fatah from reaching and punishing these people:  


> “*Fatah will come out with full force against anyone who has sold their conscience* and allows themselves to abandon *their values, their religion,* and *their faith* and *to pursue money and the illegal transfer of their property to the settler associations* that are active in Jerusalem…
> Regardless of which means of oppression are at its disposal, the occupation state *[Israel] will not be able to prevent Fatah from reaching this handful [of people] who have prioritized money over the homeland*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Nov. 26, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

Super! A new round of peace talks with Islamic terrorists. All the other peace talks have done so remarkably well.










						Abbas: Palestinians ready to resume peace talks with Israel
					

Egypt steps up pressure on Abbas to revive peace process




					m.jpost.com
				





The Palestinians are ready to return to the negotiating table with Israel under the auspices of the Quartet, which consists of the US, United Nations, Russia and European Union, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said on Thursday.

Abbas told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Arancha González during a meeting in his office in Ramallah that the negotiations should be based on “international legitimacy resolutions,” a reference to UN resolutions pertaining to the Israeli-Arab conflict.




Eyup! Abbas sees the potential for persuading the Obama third term posers to open the spigot on that kuffar welfare cash faucet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Abbas told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Arancha González during a meeting in his office in Ramallah that the negotiations should be based on “international legitimacy resolutions,” a reference to UN resolutions pertaining to the Israeli-Arab conflict.


Has Abbas ever mentioned international law or UN resolutions?

I don't think so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Arancha González during a meeting in his office in Ramallah that the negotiations should be based on “international legitimacy resolutions,” a reference to UN resolutions pertaining to the Israeli-Arab conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> Has Abbas ever mentioned international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> I don't think so.
Click to expand...

As usual, you don't know.


----------



## Hollie

From the Mullahcratic mouthpieces in Iran, we learn the same Islamic terrorist misfits who brought us the failed islamo-border wars are pledging more ''resistance''.  They're whining about some idea that a presumed entitlement to an islamist waqf is relevant to some 7th century Arab warlord and his minions.







__





						Hamas pledges resistance against Israel, vows full liberation of Palestine
					






					www.globalsecurity.org
				





A senior official from Hamas says the Palestinian resistance movement will continue to uphold the path of resistance against the occupying Israeli regime until the full liberation of the occupied territories.

In a statement on the 33rd founding anniversary of Hamas, Maher Salah stressed the need to continue struggle until Palestinian lands are fully liberated.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Arancha González during a meeting in his office in Ramallah that the negotiations should be based on “international legitimacy resolutions,” a reference to UN resolutions pertaining to the Israeli-Arab conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> Has Abbas ever mentioned international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As usual, you don't know.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Arancha González during a meeting in his office in Ramallah that the negotiations should be based on “international legitimacy resolutions,” a reference to UN resolutions pertaining to the Israeli-Arab conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> Has Abbas ever mentioned international law or UN resolutions?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As usual, you don't know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

You provide no links?

Well, isn't that typical.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally's and a few others seem to think that Israel normalizing ties with Arab nations should be all about placating their tender Pally sensibilities. 

Bahrain, the UAE, Morocco and likely others to follow are seemingly recognizing their own interests as benefitting from closer ties with Israel. The region is a little less volatile even with the Pally Islamic terrorist enclaves seething at Arab nations. 

It's an unfortunate circumstance that decades have past and billions of dollars poured into the two competing Islamist terrorist mini-caliphates have done little by made fortunes for the ruling caliphs. The Arabs are slowly beginning to realize that being forever tied to the retrograde Pallys is not in their interests. 










						‘Doesn’t serve Palestinians’: Israel-Morocco to normalise ties
					

How the world reacted to announcement that Morocco will normalise relations with Israel in US-brokered deal.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




‘Doesn’t serve Palestinians’: Israel-Morocco to normalise ties.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinians angrily denounce Moroccan ‘betrayal’ over Israel move
					

Moroccan king tells Abbas support for Palestinians 'unshakeable' after Israel deal, as groups fume; Gantz and Ashkenazi only informed of talks from White House, not Netanyahu




					www.timesofisrael.com
				







Those poor Pallys. The world doesn't revolve around their wants and needs?


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*










						PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
					

Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

> The decision to add Jewish history and culture to lessons was discreetly launched before the diplomatic deal was announced.
> 
> Part of an ongoing revamp of Morocco’s school curriculum since 2014, the lessons will be included from next term for children in their final year of primary school, aged 11, the education ministry said.
> 
> The move aims to “highlight Morocco’s diverse identity,” according to Fouad Chafiqi, head of academic programs at the ministry.


Yet when this story was reported in Palestinian Arabic media, there was a crucial change:







> In a first precedent in the Arab world, Zionist history will be part of the curriculum in Morocco.


For decades, Arabs have pretended that they have no problems with Jews, only Zionists. Yet here, the Palestinians at least show that they don't distinguish between the two.

(full article online)









						Morocco to teach Jewish history in schools - Palestinians report it as "Zionist" history
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

After the disaster of realizing that the Arab League would rather support the UAE than the Palestinians, the Palestinian leadership has decided that public condemnations of fellow Arab states from their highest levels actually hurts them. 

They still issue the condemnations, but the language is more muted and the spokespeople are less and less prominent. 

I'm looking forward to seeing who condemns Bhutan.

(full article online)









						The PLO is more careful now about condemning the latest Arab state to normalize relations with Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is offering a career path for pious Moslems. You career (and life), may be short lived because working as a foot soldier for the syndicate presumes you are a disposable commodity to be used as cannon fodder. 




*PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA!*









						PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
					

Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.




					palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 13, 2020
*

*

*PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*
Since 2018, the Palestinian Authority has been facing considerable financial pressure focused on bringing an end to its terror reward program. Despite that pressure and despite their intuitive desire to make positive overtures to try to placate the new Biden Administration, the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.

When asked about “a conversation that was republished and reached American media outlets,” clearly alluding to a recent article in the New York Times, “according to which there may be amendments that will affect the prisoners’ and released prisoners’ salaries,” Abu Bakr responded succinctly, but adamantly:


> “These things are *inaccurate and incorrect*.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Dec. 5, 2020]


Addressing the suggestion that the PA payments to the terrorist prisoners will no longer be based on the time they spend in prison, but rather be based on needs and social welfare criteria, Abu Bakr clarified:


> “The prisoners are a *sacred issue that can’t be touched*. Let no one think that it will be transferred to the other institutions – the humanitarian ones or the [PA Ministry of] Social Affairs. This is emphasized by [PA] President [Abbas] at every meeting.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Nov. 27, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is offering a career path for pious Moslems. You career (and life), may be short lived because working as a foot soldier for the syndicate presumes you are a disposable commodity to be used as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 13, 2020
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*
> Since 2018, the Palestinian Authority has been facing considerable financial pressure focused on bringing an end to its terror reward program. Despite that pressure and despite their intuitive desire to make positive overtures to try to placate the new Biden Administration, the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> When asked about “a conversation that was republished and reached American media outlets,” clearly alluding to a recent article in the New York Times, “according to which there may be amendments that will affect the prisoners’ and released prisoners’ salaries,” Abu Bakr responded succinctly, but adamantly:
> 
> 
> 
> “These things are *inaccurate and incorrect*.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Dec. 5, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the suggestion that the PA payments to the terrorist prisoners will no longer be based on the time they spend in prison, but rather be based on needs and social welfare criteria, Abu Bakr clarified:
> 
> 
> 
> “The prisoners are a *sacred issue that can’t be touched*. Let no one think that it will be transferred to the other institutions – the humanitarian ones or the [PA Ministry of] Social Affairs. This is emphasized by [PA] President [Abbas] at every meeting.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Nov. 27, 2020]
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.


Do you have a link and a quote? I know that is not what he said.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is offering a career path for pious Moslems. You career (and life), may be short lived because working as a foot soldier for the syndicate presumes you are a disposable commodity to be used as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 13, 2020
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*
> Since 2018, the Palestinian Authority has been facing considerable financial pressure focused on bringing an end to its terror reward program. Despite that pressure and despite their intuitive desire to make positive overtures to try to placate the new Biden Administration, the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> When asked about “a conversation that was republished and reached American media outlets,” clearly alluding to a recent article in the New York Times, “according to which there may be amendments that will affect the prisoners’ and released prisoners’ salaries,” Abu Bakr responded succinctly, but adamantly:
> 
> 
> 
> “These things are *inaccurate and incorrect*.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Dec. 5, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the suggestion that the PA payments to the terrorist prisoners will no longer be based on the time they spend in prison, but rather be based on needs and social welfare criteria, Abu Bakr clarified:
> 
> 
> 
> “The prisoners are a *sacred issue that can’t be touched*. Let no one think that it will be transferred to the other institutions – the humanitarian ones or the [PA Ministry of] Social Affairs. This is emphasized by [PA] President [Abbas] at every meeting.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Nov. 27, 2020]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I know that is not what he said.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link and a quote? I have no reason to believe you know what he said.


----------



## Hollie

I thought Arab News had an odd take regarding the Morocco-Israeli normalization agreement. They described ''mainstream (Pally) leaders'' vs. "opposition factions''. I'm not clear how Fatah is more mainstream vs. Hamas. Both Islamic terrorist franchises; Hamas and Fatah, are opposed to aby Arab accommodation with Israel. "Mainstream'' Islamic terrorists seems like an odd label.









						Palestinian leadership silent over Morocco, Israel deal to normalize relations
					

AMMAN: Mainstream Palestinian leaders on Friday remained shtum over news that Morocco had become the latest Arab nation to agree to normalize relations with Israel.




					www.arabnews.com
				





AMMAN: Mainstream Palestinian leaders on Friday remained shtum over news that Morocco had become the latest Arab nation to agree to normalize relations with Israel.

Opposition factions such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) were quick to criticize Morocco’s pledge to set aside hostilities toward Israel “in the near future.”


----------



## Hollie

Some unnamed State of Israel - Pal agreement, blessed by the Iranian Mull'ocracy. 

My guess is that the Mullahs are having a more difficult time funding the various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and see the obvious realignment of politics in the area. 












						Iran will not oppose Palestine-Israel deal, Biden expected to back normalisation
					

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said that his country will not recognise the state of Israel but it would not have a problem if Palestinians and Israelis reach an agreement, according to Russia ...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said that his country will not recognise the state of Israel but it would not have a problem if Palestinians and Israelis reach an agreement, according to _Russia Today_.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is offering a career path for pious Moslems. You career (and life), may be short lived because working as a foot soldier for the syndicate presumes you are a disposable commodity to be used as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 13, 2020
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*
> Since 2018, the Palestinian Authority has been facing considerable financial pressure focused on bringing an end to its terror reward program. Despite that pressure and despite their intuitive desire to make positive overtures to try to placate the new Biden Administration, the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> When asked about “a conversation that was republished and reached American media outlets,” clearly alluding to a recent article in the New York Times, “according to which there may be amendments that will affect the prisoners’ and released prisoners’ salaries,” Abu Bakr responded succinctly, but adamantly:
> 
> 
> 
> “These things are *inaccurate and incorrect*.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Dec. 5, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the suggestion that the PA payments to the terrorist prisoners will no longer be based on the time they spend in prison, but rather be based on needs and social welfare criteria, Abu Bakr clarified:
> 
> 
> 
> “The prisoners are a *sacred issue that can’t be touched*. Let no one think that it will be transferred to the other institutions – the humanitarian ones or the [PA Ministry of] Social Affairs. This is emphasized by [PA] President [Abbas] at every meeting.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Nov. 27, 2020]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I know that is not what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I have no reason to believe you know what he said.
Click to expand...

Well I surely cannot believe an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is offering a career path for pious Moslems. You career (and life), may be short lived because working as a foot soldier for the syndicate presumes you are a disposable commodity to be used as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 13, 2020
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*
> Since 2018, the Palestinian Authority has been facing considerable financial pressure focused on bringing an end to its terror reward program. Despite that pressure and despite their intuitive desire to make positive overtures to try to placate the new Biden Administration, the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> When asked about “a conversation that was republished and reached American media outlets,” clearly alluding to a recent article in the New York Times, “according to which there may be amendments that will affect the prisoners’ and released prisoners’ salaries,” Abu Bakr responded succinctly, but adamantly:
> 
> 
> 
> “These things are *inaccurate and incorrect*.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Dec. 5, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the suggestion that the PA payments to the terrorist prisoners will no longer be based on the time they spend in prison, but rather be based on needs and social welfare criteria, Abu Bakr clarified:
> 
> 
> 
> “The prisoners are a *sacred issue that can’t be touched*. Let no one think that it will be transferred to the other institutions – the humanitarian ones or the [PA Ministry of] Social Affairs. This is emphasized by [PA] President [Abbas] at every meeting.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Nov. 27, 2020]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I know that is not what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I have no reason to believe you know what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I surely cannot believe an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...

Well, I Shirley knew you couldn't support you comment. 

No link, huh?

Am I shocked?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate is offering a career path for pious Moslems. You career (and life), may be short lived because working as a foot soldier for the syndicate presumes you are a disposable commodity to be used as cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Palestinians: Become a terrorist and guarantee yourself a job in the PA! | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released Prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 13, 2020
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *PA’s scheme to bypass donors’ demand to stop terrorist salaries: Released terrorists to become public employees*
> Since 2018, the Palestinian Authority has been facing considerable financial pressure focused on bringing an end to its terror reward program. Despite that pressure and despite their intuitive desire to make positive overtures to try to placate the new Biden Administration, the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> When asked about “a conversation that was republished and reached American media outlets,” clearly alluding to a recent article in the New York Times, “according to which there may be amendments that will affect the prisoners’ and released prisoners’ salaries,” Abu Bakr responded succinctly, but adamantly:
> 
> 
> 
> “These things are *inaccurate and incorrect*.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Dec. 5, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the suggestion that the PA payments to the terrorist prisoners will no longer be based on the time they spend in prison, but rather be based on needs and social welfare criteria, Abu Bakr clarified:
> 
> 
> 
> “The prisoners are a *sacred issue that can’t be touched*. Let no one think that it will be transferred to the other institutions – the humanitarian ones or the [PA Ministry of] Social Affairs. This is emphasized by [PA] President [Abbas] at every meeting.”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Nov. 27, 2020]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> the director of the PA-funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, has repeatedly made it clear that any changes made in the PA’s terror salaries to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners will be purely cosmetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I know that is not what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link and a quote? I have no reason to believe you know what he said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I surely cannot believe an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


That sure is a convenient excuse
whenever you can't refute anything with facts.

*Mother of suicide bomber prepares to assume office*


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. A long term recipient of a paycheck from something called the “PLO” has resigned.

Wiki has attempted to describe / define the PLO and it’s an exercise in taking some Excedrin for headache pain relief. The PLO is nothing more than a heading for an alphabet soup of labels for committee’s, councils, body’s, organizations, etc., that pay huge salaries to lots of people who have no perceivable job function. After more than two decades of collecting welfare from one or more of the PLO controlled agencies, maybe it was time for Ashwari to step aside and free up some money for a tune up on Mahmoud’s presidential jet.

*Institutions*








						Palestine Liberation Organization - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				



The Palestinian National Council has 740 members and the Executive Committee or ExCo has 18 members. The Palestinian Central Council or CC or PCC, established by the PNC in 1973, is the second leading body of the PLO.[33] The CC consists of 124 members[34]from the PLO Executive Committee, PNC, PLC and other Palestinian organizations.[35] The EC includes 15 representatives of the PLC.[30]The CC functions as an intermediary body between the PNC and the EC. The CC makes policy decisions when PNC is not in session, acting as a link between the PNC and the PLO-EC. The CC is elected by the PNC and chaired by the PNC speaker.[36]

The PNC serves as the parliament for all Palestinians inside and outside of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including Jerusalem. The PLO is governed internally by its "Fundamental Law", which describes the powers and the relations between the organs of the PLO.[33]









						Top Palestinian official Hanan Ashrawi quits PLO
					

High-profile Palestinian official Hanan Ashrawi resigned from the Palestine Liberation Organization on Wednesday, calling for the "renewal and reinvigoration" of Palestinian political leadership. Ashrawi was widely reported to have been frustrated with the Palestinian Authority's decision last...




					www.al-monitor.com
				





High-profile Palestinian official Hanan Ashrawi resigned from the Palestine Liberation Organization on Wednesday, calling for the "renewal and reinvigoration" of Palestinian political leadership.


----------



## Hollie

Rashida Tlaib has been given an opportunity by Allah. The far left, CAIR and Islamism. That's the description of ''retrograde''.  









__





						Tlaib: 'I Hope You Realize Just the Opportunity Here That Allah Has Given Us to Show the Power of Muslims in Georgia’
					

Muslim leaders, including Reps. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) and Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), expressed the hope and expectation on Sunday that Muslim voters would be a deciding factor in the pivotal Senate runoff election in the state of Georgia early next month. The early voting period begins on Monday.




					cnsnews.com
				




Tlaib: 'I Hope You Realize Just the Opportunity Here That Allah Has Given Us to Show the Power of Muslims in Georgia’


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The alternate reality of the damaged Pally terrorist. 


*Abbas’ advisor: A “war crime” for Jews to place a Hanukkah candelabra at Jewish/Muslim religious site.









						Abbas’ advisor: A “war crime” for Jews to place a Hanukkah candelabra at Jewish/Muslim religious site | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas’ advisor: “Placing of a Jewish religious so-called ‘Hanukkah menorah’ on the roof of the Ibrahimi Mosque… [is] an additional ‘war crime’”




					palwatch.org
				



*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 14, 2020

*Abbas’ advisor about the Cave of the Patriarchs:  “The Ibrahimi Mosque is a pure Islamic heritage”*
*Abbas’ advisor: “Placing of a Jewish religious so-called ‘Hanukkah menorah’ on the roof of the Ibrahimi Mosque… [is] an additional ‘war crime’”*
*Abbas’ advisor: Israel commits “crimes… that desecrate our Islamic holy sites in Hebron”*
*PA’s Supreme Fatwa Council: “The placing of a Hanukkah menorah [at] the Ibrahimi Mosque (i.e., the Cave of the Patriarchs)… is a blatant violation, a true provocation of the Muslims’ sensibilities, and an… attempt to erase the Islamic history in service of the goal to Judaize the Ibrahimi Mosque and create a fake Jewish character for it”*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

In today's episode of ''_Islamic Terrorists are Funny_'', there's a lot of the usual bluster coming from the Hamas welfare syndicate addressing their intention to ''destroy the Zionist Enterprise™️''.

Falafel and coffee will be served after the more excitable of the Ummah’ists have been treated for their cuts, scrapes and minor burns following the setting of bonfires and general mayhem that is a part of these quaint rituals. 













						On 33rd anniversary, Hamas vows to free Palestine ‘from sea to river’
					

Hamas also vowed to confront normalization agreements between the Arab countries and Israel, dubbing them a “national sin that only serve the Zionist enterprise in the region.”




					www.jpost.com
				





Hamas also vowed to confront normalization agreements between the Arab countries and Israel, dubbing them a “national sin that only serve the Zionist enterprise in the region.”

By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
DECEMBER 14, 2020 20:11


----------



## Hollie

Today, we can be cautiously optimistic that the endless on again-off again reconciliation talks will last about 10 minutes longer than the last ones. 










						Hamas says ready to resume Palestinian unity talks
					

Hamas says PA’s resumption of ties with Israel is ‘impediment’ to unity talks, but vows to push forward.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Palestinian group Hamas has signalled readiness to resume talks for healing the inter-Palestinian rift with the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority (PA) government in the occupied West Bank.






I think the obvious solution for the intra-islamo hostilities is for caliber of weapons and volume of fire to decide who controls the UNRWA welfare fraud money.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bones of Hashmoneans were being destroyed by the Palestinian Authority; remains saved and re-interred during Chanukah
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Throw rocks. You're a hero for being a useful idiot.

I suspect the Fatah admonition toward rock throwing is directed at those islamo-youngsters who have been raised from birth to believe that they are useful only as cheap propaganda when the Israelis return fire after being attacked.

The Pally yutes - a disposable commodity.




*Fatah: Throw rocks - “strike for the homeland”*

*








						Fatah: Throw rocks - “strike for the homeland” | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “Peace starts from Palestine and war breaks out from Palestine”




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 15, 2020
*



*

*Fatah: “Peace starts from Palestine and war breaks out from Palestine”*
*“Allah’s mercy upon them” - Fatah’s best wishes for terrorist murderers*
Facebook continues to serve Abbas’ Fatah Movement as a platform for encouraging Palestinians to use violence and terror and to fight Israel.
In anticipation of Fatah’s upcoming anniversary in January 1 - counted from Fatah’s first terror attack against Israel in 1965 – the movement posted the image above calling to “strike”:


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hehe she tried the_ "I own You" _with a customs officer...

My German composition teacher once couldn't get in for a booked show,
because he was returning from the Dubai Expo...and look at Israel and Dubai now.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>


LOL!


----------



## Hollie

Pally's have chosen to live and die by the musings of a 7th century Arab warlord who promised them the Allah god has provided a right to conquer and enslave. The principle of waqf adds the Allah God's promise of land conquered and lost by the Islamic invaders shall be retaken in gee-had. This is spelled out in the Hamas Charter. 

Pally's - always making the wrong decisions and blaming others for their incompetence and failures. 










						Abbas Failed To Capitalize on Trump’s Gift
					

Embracing terrorism and the public challenge of Trump’s demand to stop rewarding terrorism was too much.




					www.jewishpress.com
				





Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal. He invited the acting-President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, to the White House on May 3, 2017. They discussed tackling terrorism and building economic prosperity for Palestinian Arabs and the promise of working together to build a better future for the region.
Shortly thereafter, on May 23rd, President Trump visited Abbas in Bethlehem and reiterated the need to confront terrorism, “_Peace can never take root in an environment where violence is tolerated, funded and even rewarded…. The terrorists and extremists, and those who give them aid and comfort, must be driven out from our society forever.  This wicked ideology must be obliterated — and I mean completely obliterated — and innocent life must be protected_.”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Was he encouraging teenagers to throw rocks?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. Those Islamic terrorist reconciliation talks to unite Hamas and Fatah took a step back. 










						Gunmen attack Palestinian Authority headquarters in Jenin
					

Several gunmen took part in the attack, one of the largest against a PA installation in the West Bank.




					m.jpost.com
				




Several gunmen took part in the attack, one of the largest against a PA installation in the West Bank.

Unidentified gunmen carried out a shooting attack on Palestinian Authority headquarters in Jenin on Monday night. No one was hurt, but some offices and vehicles were damaged.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Oh, this just breaks my frigg'in heart.



P F Tinmore said:


> ​


*(COMMENT)*

Some People → are actually sick'n'tired of hearing about the rights of the Hostile and Violent Arab Palestinians (H/VAP) being violated or ignored.  It is the social and political complexion of the H/VAP that has created the geopolitical environment they see today.

The H/VAP of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip are NOT refugees.  At least not in the sense of the Convention.  And the fact that over a century ago, some political objectives of the Middle Eastern Arab Palestinians did not meet their "demands" is sort of a special cause for them to promote and incite terrorism and violence is now very much past the point of ridiculous.  Even today, given the many opportunities the H/VAPs had to establish a functioning government, the H/VAPs still cannot speak with one voice and act like other civilized nations working for peace.

And let's be clear → it is now, and has been for more than seven decades, the H/VAPs that promoted the various levels of conflict.  Since the end of the Mandate, the initiation of the various conflict events has been a product of the H/VAP and not the Israelis.
​



See:  *Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000*​
If people have an attitude towards the H/VAPs, and that spills over on to other Arab Palestinians, then it is important to remember all the vicious acts committed against the innocent since before the Palestinian terrorist group Black September Attack during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich; as well as the many suicide bombings, airline highjackings and the attack on the MS Achille Lauro.  

Maybe, if the Arab Palestinians straighten their act up, they will earn some respect.  But "respect" is earned and not a "right."





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dr. Ghazi Hussein wrote an article titled "Genocide and Racism in Zionist Thought and Practice"yesterday.

It includes such gems as this:


> The historical roots of terrorism, genocide, extortion, greed, lies and Zionist crimes go back to the teachings established by the writers of the Talmudic Torah and to the founders of the Zionists who added European racism to Judaism, in particular German racism, so they replaced the Aryan in the theory of the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche with the Jew, "The Chosen People of God," for whom the world was created and for whom the world was created.
> 
> The Zionist entity proceeds from the teachings of Judaism, Zionism and Jewish settler colonialism to justify the practice of genocide, terrorism, racism and Jewish purity as a political doctrine and an official policy in dealing with the Arabs of Muslims and Christians and with Muslims and the rest of the non-Jews (goyim) in the world Thus, they raised the genocide to the level of religious sanctity.



Who is Ghazi Hussein?

He is an antisemite, even quoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and denying the Holocaust.

Yet that doesn't cause him to lose his position as the 82 year old legal advisor and head of administration in the political department of the Palestine Liberation Organization in Damascus. 

If Palestinians are as against antisemitism as they claim, why is there not a single negative word about their own officials who regularly peddle Jew-hate? 

(full article online)









						For Palestinians, antisemitism isn't a bug - it's a feature
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Nothing says "Religion of Peace" like the Pal-Arab Death Cult




*Betraying the vision and betraying the children:‎ DCI-Palestine promotes kids participation in terror and endorses PA brainwashing*









						Betraying the vision and betraying the children:‎ DCI-Palestine promotes kids participation in terror and endorses PA brainwashing | PMW Analysis
					

While claiming to be a human rights organization that advocates for the rights of ‎Palestinian children, DCI-P:‎ Promotes the participation of Palestinian children in violence




					palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Dec 16, 2020

*While claiming to be a human rights organization that advocates for the rights of ‎Palestinian children, DCI-P:‎*
*Promotes the participation of Palestinian children in violence*
*Condones the PA brainwashing of the Palestinian children*
*Has invented a false narrative to condemn Israel while all the time ‎ignoring the widespread Palestinian abuse of their own children*
Defense for Children International (DCI) is an internationally recognized, non-‎governmental organization (NGO) that engages in child advocacy. According to its ‎website, the vision of the organization is “that children, as human beings, are able to ‎pursue a life in which they can enjoy their human rights with dignity, in a just and ‎responsible society.”‎
The “Palestine” section of DCI (DCI-P) is not only betraying the vision of its ‎international umbrella organization, but more outrageously, it is betraying the children ‎on whose behalf they are meant to be advocating. 
‎
*Promoting participation in violence*
While it is clearly not in the best interest of any child to participate in the commission of ‎criminal offences, it is certainly not in the best interest of any child to participate in acts ‎of terror.
‎
But for DCI-P, this universal reality seems to be irrelevant. Instead of advocating that ‎the Palestinian children be removed entirely from the equation of participating in acts ‎of terror, DCI-P’s Accountability Program Director, Ayed Abu Qteish, condoned and ‎romanticized Palestinian children’s involvement in terror. According to Abu Qteish, it is ‎the “children’s right” to participate in a “non-violent march” even if the child throws rocks at ‎Israeli security officials or Israeli civilians. ‎
















> ‎“All the cases of Palestinian children being killed – It is the children’s right to ‎participate in non-violent marches, and it is their right to articulate and express ‎their opinion… When the Palestinian children participate in a march or ‎demonstration or throw a rock, the most important aspect is the symbolic aspect ‎of this issue. The symbolism in that we are rejecting and resisting this ‎occupation.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Nov. 21, 2020]‎


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Days of Pal'istan".

Thats a joke, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Thanks. Once again we see that Islamic terrorists don’t stand a chance against a motivated, well trained and equipped military force.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. The Pally’s are a bit miffed that the Israeli government is going to provide COVID vaccines to its citizens as opposed to the entitled Islamic terrorists wanting to destroy the Zionist Enterprise™️

That’s so... you know... _racist_, maybe even _islamophobic_.

I suppose there are difficult choices to make in life. The Hamas and Fatah terrorist leadership can’t be expected to spend their UNRWA welfare money on medical care for their minions when that money can be directed to their personal fortunes. 










						Palestinians left waiting as Israel set to deploy COVID vaccine
					

Israel reached an agreement with Pfizer to supply eight million doses of its vaccine.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Israel will begin rolling out a major coronavirus vaccination campaign next week after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reached out personally to the head of United States pharmaceutical giant Pfizer.

But millions of Palestinians living under Israeli control will have to wait much longer.


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


>



Who are the settlers? How come nobody is named al-Palestini?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Refugees and UNRWA: A History of Displacement, Dispossession and Hope*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine Refugees and UNRWA: A History of Displacement, Dispossession and Hope*



A better title would be:* Islamic Terrorists and UNRWA: A History of Fraud, Waste and Malfeasance*


----------



## Hollie

Comedy gold.

The bluster from the Islamic terrorist settlers is the usual “our land” when history clearly shows that Ottoman Turk controlled land eventually fell under control of the British Mandate. 




*PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are settlers; Israel's demise is certain*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 17, 2020




*PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine” – including Safed, Haifa, Acre, and Jaffa*
*Israelis living in Haifa, Jaffa, and Be’er Sheva are “settlers”*
*Palestinians have “natural right” to “fight in Haifa, Jaffa, and Be’er Sheva”*
*“The occupation (i.e., Israel) is nearing its end”*
In two recent broadcasts, the PA reiterated its internal narrative that it tries to hide from the international community: All of Israel is Palestinian land - including Safed, Haifa, Acre, and Jaffa:


----------



## Hollie

An unexpected move on behalf of a Canadian court. Welcome news that Islamic terrorist enablers are held accountable.


*Canadian Federal Court Rejects Refugee Status Application of Palestinian Who Facilitated Terror Payments*









						Canadian Federal Court Rejects Refugee Status Application of Palestinian Who Facilitated Terror Payments
					

Schedule of payments made by Palestinian Authority to terrorists jailed in Israeli prisons. Photo: Palestinian Media Watch. In a landmark …




					www.algemeiner.com
				








Schedule of payments made by Palestinian Authority to terrorists jailed in Israeli prisons. Photo: Palestinian Media Watch.

In a landmark decision, Canada’s Federal Court has denied a Palestinian grandmother’s application for refugee status because of her work for a foundation that financed so-called “martyr payments” to the families of Palestinian terrorists convicted of murdering Israelis.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, I don't know. After decades of failure, why would change be an appropriate response?


Egyptian Journalist: Time Has Come for Palestinian Brothers, Their Political Elite to Rethink Things


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Protestors in Palestine take down an Israeli drone with rocks.*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Protestors in Palestine take down an Israeli drone with rocks.*



Rocks, the epitome of Palestinian high tech.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Protestors in Palestine take down an Israeli drone with rocks.*


They stoned it. Practice for when their women get out of line.


----------



## Hollie

For a frame of reference, the _Great_ _Satan_™️ showered the Pally Islamic terrorists with a minimum of $357 million in fun-money during 2016. That money was used as rewards for Islamic terrorists with lots of money left over for the personal bank accounts of the Islamic terrorist leadership.

That has since stopped. 









						Incentivizing Terrorism: Palestinian Authority Allocations to Terrorists and their Families
					

PA's payments of salaries to imprisoned terrorists and to families of dead terrorists reflect its commitment to an ongoing struggle against Zionism.




					jcpa.org
				




The Palestinian Authority’s legislation and allocations of monthly salaries and benefits rewarding imprisoned and released terrorists, and the families of “Martyrs,” amount to $300 million annually. This financial reward clearly demonstrates the PA’s institutional commitment to sponsoring terror against Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the real problems with PC culture and one of its side effects; identity politics, is that people such as Rashida Tlaib with no real qualifications for the office she holds and a political-religious agenda that is consumed by Jew hatred finds a congressional seat she has no business occupying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP congressman calls on Tlaib to lose committee assignments after 'disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism'
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Guy Reschenthaler called for Rep. Rashida Tlaib to be removed from her congressional committees, saying she engaged in a “disturbing pattern of anti-Semitism” in recent weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
Click to expand...

What anti-Semitism was this guy blabbering about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Ummah’s kids. Aren’t they so cute?  The next generation of Death Cultists learning the way of the gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian kids taught to identify as “refugees” about to “return” to Israeli cities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian kids taught to identify as “refugees” about to “return” to Israeli cities | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Palestinian children who were born decades after Israel’s establishment in 1948 and decades after the Oslo Accords peace agreement are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Dec 1, 2020
> 
> *12-year-old Palestinian boy:
> “The Jews stole our land”
> “Every day, every minute I imagine that I’m in Lod (i.e., Israeli city)”
> “I will return and liberate Palestine”
> “Of course we will return and live in those houses”*
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children who were born decades after Israel’s establishment in 1948 and decades after the Oslo Accords peace agreement are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories. They are brought up to believe that in the future they will “liberate Palestine” and live in a world with no Israel.





Hollie said:


> are being educated by the PA to envision themselves as residents of the cities “stolen by the Jews,” and as “refugees” temporarily living in the Palestinian territories.


Where is this incorrect?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Well, you could get partial credit.  But most of the reply is incorre3ct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne was a part of the process. A basic tenant of International law is that a people and their land cannot be separated.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This layman's interpretation is based on Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949), wherein, the applicable clauses are ambiguous.  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  Article 49(2) gives an exception:
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 49(2) GCIV said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake *total* or *partial evacuation* of a given area if the *security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand*. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.​Source:  Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949)​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers decided that the region would be divided into five new states. The international borders of those new states were defined by treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne released the territories to the respective states. It also stated, in compliance with international law, that the people would be nationals of the respective states to which the territory was transferred. Following international law, the Palestine Citizenship Order granted the Palestinians citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is entirely screwed-up.  About the only thing you got right was the part:  "Allied Powers decided"
> 
> ◈  The Allied Powers DID NOT divide the region into five states.  It created three (3) Mandates  (Article 1 Franco-British Convention of December 1920) .​​✦  The French mandate of Syria and Lebanon on the one hand.​​✦  The British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other.​​*Comment Note*:​There were several other Mandates, but no pertaining to the topic under discussion.​
> People assume the citizenship of the territory.  On 11 April 1921, three distinct Arab districts, East of the Jordan River and extending to Mesopotamia, were assembled under a single political territory to be known as the Emirate of Transjordan _(British Protectorate equivalent)_, and with the Emir Abdullah.  The people of the Emirate assumed the citizenship of the Emirate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, as with any other people inside their defined territory, have inherent inalienable rights. The right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity. These rights have been reiterate by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There has been "*Much* Ado About" inalienable and inviolable rights. And while the Universal Declaration for Human Rights (UDHR) establishes a common understanding such rights, it only urges Governments to accept those principles, the UDHR is NOT LAW. "There are nine (9) core international human rights instruments." The 'rights' that you have most often invoked are those found in the
> "International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights" (CCPR); or those documented in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (SESCR).  These are the laws.
> 
> The rights pertaining to the broad category of "self determination" -  "independence and sovereignty" - and "territorial integrity" are very loosely described in the UN Charter.  The key here is that the CCPR covers those rights in the specifics.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not territory of their own, or as you say:   "people inside their defined territory"  If the Arab Palestinians had such a defined territory, it would have already been brought to the surface.  The idea that the Arab Palestinians claim the entirety of the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine" as their defined territory is absolutely ludacris.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No foreign power has the authority to violate those basic rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, this is a statement with no real context.  It sounds right, but then applied to what.  The Arab Palestinians are, themselves confused, as to what their boundaries are.  Don't talk about international boundaries and them make me recite how you twisted the phrase.  Remember, prior to 1948, Palestine was a non-self-governing territory (NSGT) administratively established to accommodate the Mandate authority.  The indigenous population was citizens of a territory that they had neither "rights" nor "title."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




			
				EXCERPT • Article 49(2) GCIV said:
			
		

> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake *total* or *partial evacuation* of a given area if the *security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand*. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.
> Source:  Article 49, Fourth Gevena Convention (GCIV)(1949)


-
You need to read this again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Protestors in Palestine take down an Israeli drone with rocks.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocks, the epitome of Palestinian high tech.
Click to expand...

A thousand dollar drone brought down by a free rock.

Works for me.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Owen Jones meets Salma Karmi-Ayyoub | 'The IHRA antisemitism debate is toxic'*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Protestors in Palestine take down an Israeli drone with rocks.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocks, the epitome of Palestinian high tech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A thousand dollar drone brought down by a free rock.
> 
> Works for me.
Click to expand...


And yet, still don't have their own country.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Protestors in Palestine take down an Israeli drone with rocks.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocks, the epitome of Palestinian high tech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A thousand dollar drone brought down by a free rock.
> 
> Works for me.
Click to expand...

Think of it as career training for islamo-yutes. They can graduate to throwing rocks at Israeli police who will fire back. 

How does that work for you?.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  And → Article 49(2) gives an exception:



P F Tinmore said:


> You need to read this again.



*(QUESTION)*

What do you think I misread or misinterpreted.

*(COMMENT)*

In order for your objection to have any merit, you "must" specify by time and territory your claim and identify the parties involved.

◈  The "Occupying Power"​◈  may undertake total or partial evacuation​◈  of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand​
There is a compound exception:  

✦  shall be transferred back​✦  except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid​✦  as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased​
You have to make your claim specific in order to give it substance.  Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.  There was no Armistice with the Arab Palestinians; nor was there any instrument of peace _(prior to the Oslo Accords)_.  In fact, never-ending hostilities as dictated in 1948, in 1968, in 1988 and various position papers and open declarations in the last two decades, have incited hostilities.

I would like you to be absolutely clear about the periods of occupation _(where and when)_...






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  And → Article 49(2) gives an exception:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read this again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think I misread or misinterpreted.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In order for your objection to have any merit, you "must" specify by time and territory your claim and identify the parties involved.
> 
> ◈  The "Occupying Power"​◈  may undertake total or partial evacuation​◈  of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand​
> There is a compound exception:
> 
> ✦  shall be transferred back​✦  except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid​✦  as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased​
> You have to make your claim specific in order to give it substance.  Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.  There was no Armistice with the Arab Palestinians; nor was there any instrument of peace _(prior to the Oslo Accords)_.  In fact, never-ending hostilities as dictated in 1948, in 1968, in 1988 and various position papers and open declarations in the last two decades, have incited hostilities.
> 
> I would like you to be absolutely clear about the periods of occupation _(where and when)_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Tinmore being absolutely clear about something ?? Ya, uhh, that’s not going to happen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Whatever the case, the 1949 Law and interpretations CANNOT be retroactively applied to actions taken prior.  And → Article 49(2) gives an exception:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read this again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think I misread or misinterpreted.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In order for your objection to have any merit, you "must" specify by time and territory your claim and identify the parties involved.
> 
> ◈  The "Occupying Power"​◈  may undertake total or partial evacuation​◈  of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand​
> There is a compound exception:
> 
> ✦  shall be transferred back​✦  except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid​✦  as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased​
> You have to make your claim specific in order to give it substance.  Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.  There was no Armistice with the Arab Palestinians; nor was there any instrument of peace _(prior to the Oslo Accords)_.  In fact, never-ending hostilities as dictated in 1948, in 1968, in 1988 and various position papers and open declarations in the last two decades, have incited hostilities.
> 
> I would like you to be absolutely clear about the periods of occupation _(where and when)_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.


Israel claims that it won land.

You just stated that they did not.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel claims that it won land.



Did they lose land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
Click to expand...

Lose what land?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
Click to expand...


Any land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
Click to expand...

They had to have land to lose.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to have land to lose.
Click to expand...


You can admit they didn't lose any land. You won't burst into flame.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to have land to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can admit they didn't lose any land. You won't burst into flame.
Click to expand...

Of course I will.

What land did they have to lose?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lee Edwin

“Who Are The ‘Palestinians’? An Arab Invention”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to have land to lose.
Click to expand...


link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to have land to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can admit they didn't lose any land. You won't burst into flame.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I will.
> 
> What land did they have to lose?
Click to expand...


Look at their first map and look at the current one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to have land to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
Click to expand...

That is what I have been asking for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.



RoccoR said:


> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.


*(COMMENT)*

IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.

I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."

The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:

◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.

I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."

It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups. 

The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they lose land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lose what land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to have land to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what I have been asking for.
Click to expand...

You want a link to what you already have?


----------



## Hollie

The list of circumstances where “Pals failed to capitalize” is a chronic condition with endless examples. A recent circumstance is when Abbas was given an opportunity by President Trump in 2017. I think it’s important to first set the scene; an Islamic terrorist in a suit who finances the killing of innocent Israelis is given an audience in the _Great Satan™️._

I suspect the words spoken by President Trump (in italics, below) were hand waived off by Abbas but speak directly to the notion of attempting to negotiate with Islamic terrorists.










						Abbas Failed To Capitalize on Trump’s Gift
					

Embracing terrorism and the public challenge of Trump’s demand to stop rewarding terrorism was too much.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal. He invited the acting-President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, to the White House on May 3, 2017. They discussed tackling terrorism and building economic prosperity for Palestinian Arabs and the promise of working together to build a better future for the region.
Shortly thereafter, on May 23rd, President Trump visited Abbas in Bethlehem and reiterated the need to confront terrorism


“_Peace can never take root in an environment where violence is tolerated, funded and even rewarded…. The terrorists and extremists, and those who give them aid and comfort, must be driven out from our society forever.  This wicked ideology must be obliterated — and I mean completely obliterated — and innocent life must be protected_.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.


What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.


RoccoR said:


> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.


That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The list of circumstances where “Pals failed to capitalize” is a chronic condition with endless examples. A recent circumstance is when Abbas was given an opportunity by President Trump in 2017. I think it’s important to first set the scene; an Islamic terrorist in a suit who finances the killing of innocent Israelis is given an audience in the _Great Satan™️._
> 
> I suspect the words spoken by President Trump (in italics, below) were hand waived off by Abbas but speak directly to the notion of attempting to negotiate with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Failed To Capitalize on Trump’s Gift
> 
> 
> Embracing terrorism and the public challenge of Trump’s demand to stop rewarding terrorism was too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal. He invited the acting-President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, to the White House on May 3, 2017. They discussed tackling terrorism and building economic prosperity for Palestinian Arabs and the promise of working together to build a better future for the region.
> Shortly thereafter, on May 23rd, President Trump visited Abbas in Bethlehem and reiterated the need to confront terrorism
> 
> 
> “_Peace can never take root in an environment where violence is tolerated, funded and even rewarded…. The terrorists and extremists, and those who give them aid and comfort, must be driven out from our society forever.  This wicked ideology must be obliterated — and I mean completely obliterated — and innocent life must be protected_.”





Hollie said:


> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal.


It wasn't a peace deal. It was a surrender deal.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list of circumstances where “Pals failed to capitalize” is a chronic condition with endless examples. A recent circumstance is when Abbas was given an opportunity by President Trump in 2017. I think it’s important to first set the scene; an Islamic terrorist in a suit who finances the killing of innocent Israelis is given an audience in the _Great Satan™️._
> 
> I suspect the words spoken by President Trump (in italics, below) were hand waived off by Abbas but speak directly to the notion of attempting to negotiate with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Failed To Capitalize on Trump’s Gift
> 
> 
> Embracing terrorism and the public challenge of Trump’s demand to stop rewarding terrorism was too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal. He invited the acting-President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, to the White House on May 3, 2017. They discussed tackling terrorism and building economic prosperity for Palestinian Arabs and the promise of working together to build a better future for the region.
> Shortly thereafter, on May 23rd, President Trump visited Abbas in Bethlehem and reiterated the need to confront terrorism
> 
> 
> “_Peace can never take root in an environment where violence is tolerated, funded and even rewarded…. The terrorists and extremists, and those who give them aid and comfort, must be driven out from our society forever.  This wicked ideology must be obliterated — and I mean completely obliterated — and innocent life must be protected_.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a peace deal. It was a surrender deal.
Click to expand...

There was no surrender. You’re simply spreading misinformation.

It’s easy for you to sit on the sidelines and flail your Pom Poms while the Islamic gee-had continues to fail. All of the failures committed by the Islamic terrorists in the past decades will be repeated in the future. What a great plan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list of circumstances where “Pals failed to capitalize” is a chronic condition with endless examples. A recent circumstance is when Abbas was given an opportunity by President Trump in 2017. I think it’s important to first set the scene; an Islamic terrorist in a suit who finances the killing of innocent Israelis is given an audience in the _Great Satan™️._
> 
> I suspect the words spoken by President Trump (in italics, below) were hand waived off by Abbas but speak directly to the notion of attempting to negotiate with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Failed To Capitalize on Trump’s Gift
> 
> 
> Embracing terrorism and the public challenge of Trump’s demand to stop rewarding terrorism was too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal. He invited the acting-President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, to the White House on May 3, 2017. They discussed tackling terrorism and building economic prosperity for Palestinian Arabs and the promise of working together to build a better future for the region.
> Shortly thereafter, on May 23rd, President Trump visited Abbas in Bethlehem and reiterated the need to confront terrorism
> 
> 
> “_Peace can never take root in an environment where violence is tolerated, funded and even rewarded…. The terrorists and extremists, and those who give them aid and comfort, must be driven out from our society forever.  This wicked ideology must be obliterated — and I mean completely obliterated — and innocent life must be protected_.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a peace deal. It was a surrender deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no surrender. You’re simply spreading misinformation.
> 
> It’s easy for you to sit on the sidelines and flail your Pom Poms while the Islamic gee-had continues to fail. All of the failures committed by the Islamic terrorists in the past decades will be repeated in the future. What a great plan.
Click to expand...

Trump's plan is no secret. I knew what it was as soon as he mentioned it.


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
Click to expand...


Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lee Edwin said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
Click to expand...

Links?

Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Hollie

While some claim the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pals are not engaged in a religious war, the Arabs-Moslems remind us otherwise.











						Palestinian Authority religious-affairs adviser hails terrorists as ‘great martyrs’
					

P.A. Supreme Sharia Judge Mahmoud Al-Habbash lauds “beloved” PLO chief Yasser Arafat, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, mass murderer Abu Jihad and Black September head Abu Iyad.




					www.jns.org
				




P.A. Supreme Sharia Judge Mahmoud Al-Habbash lauds “beloved” PLO chief Yasser Arafat, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, mass murderer Abu Jihad and Black September head Abu Iyad.


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...


Dictionary is lying? Or, you’re just a moron.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
Click to expand...

You‘re just announcing your ignorance. Hamas has a “navy”. It may be a few skiffs with outboard motors but they call it a navy. Hamas has a “military wing”. They have military uniforms which are reserved for fashion parades but they do pretend to have a military. 


What country are the Islamic terrorists defending? Is this your imagined “country of Pal’istan” (_Where Dreams Come True_™️)

Are you aware that inventing a country inhabited by an invented people with an invented nationality makes your argument rather nonsensical?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The list of circumstances where “Pals failed to capitalize” is a chronic condition with endless examples. A recent circumstance is when Abbas was given an opportunity by President Trump in 2017. I think it’s important to first set the scene; an Islamic terrorist in a suit who finances the killing of innocent Israelis is given an audience in the _Great Satan™️._
> 
> I suspect the words spoken by President Trump (in italics, below) were hand waived off by Abbas but speak directly to the notion of attempting to negotiate with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Failed To Capitalize on Trump’s Gift
> 
> 
> Embracing terrorism and the public challenge of Trump’s demand to stop rewarding terrorism was too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal. He invited the acting-President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, to the White House on May 3, 2017. They discussed tackling terrorism and building economic prosperity for Palestinian Arabs and the promise of working together to build a better future for the region.
> Shortly thereafter, on May 23rd, President Trump visited Abbas in Bethlehem and reiterated the need to confront terrorism
> 
> 
> “_Peace can never take root in an environment where violence is tolerated, funded and even rewarded…. The terrorists and extremists, and those who give them aid and comfort, must be driven out from our society forever.  This wicked ideology must be obliterated — and I mean completely obliterated — and innocent life must be protected_.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not long after Donald Trump assumed the presidency of the United States, he made overtures to the Palestinians in the hopes of brokering a peace deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a peace deal. It was a surrender deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no surrender. You’re simply spreading misinformation.
> 
> It’s easy for you to sit on the sidelines and flail your Pom Poms while the Islamic gee-had continues to fail. All of the failures committed by the Islamic terrorists in the past decades will be repeated in the future. What a great plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trump's plan is no secret. I knew what it was as soon as he mentioned it.
Click to expand...

I’m somehow not convinced what you think you knew was in any related to a rational worldview.

Any link to your assignment as the Hamas politburo spokesperson for propaganda?


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...


A 200-year-old Israeli dictionary? Damn, you’re stupid!


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...


Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lee Edwin said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dictionary is lying? Or, you’re just a moron.
Click to expand...

They take common hearsay and present them as facts.

1) The mandates had no territory.

2) The partition plan was in 1947 not 1948. It was never implemented so it did not partition anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lee Edwin said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
Click to expand...

Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.

Dumbass!


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
Click to expand...


Pay attention, birdbrain: Palestine is a generic European name for centuries. That’s why Britain called the Mandate by that name. Arabs viewed the country as Syria and called it Sham in Arabic. ⤵️


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
Click to expand...

There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.

You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lee Edwin said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay attention, birdbrain: Palestine is a generic European name for centuries. That’s why Britain called the Mandate by that name. Arabs viewed the country as Syria and called it Sham in Arabic. ⤵View attachment 431486
> 
> View attachment 431486
Click to expand...

So Britain called Palestine Palestine.

Interesting concept.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
Click to expand...

Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.

Bad analogy.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
Click to expand...

Please give several specific examples of Palestinians defending their country in , let’s say, the past ten years.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
Click to expand...

Palestine does not have international borders. Israel does .   
Would you like me to prove this, for the hundredth time ?


----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
Click to expand...


Palestine: Fake European name for ancient Israel....


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay attention, birdbrain: Palestine is a generic European name for centuries. That’s why Britain called the Mandate by that name. Arabs viewed the country as Syria and called it Sham in Arabic. ⤵View attachment 431486
> 
> View attachment 431486
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Britain called Palestine Palestine.
> 
> Interesting concept.
Click to expand...

Yes , the TERRITORY was called Palestine. There was no such country , and there never will be.


----------



## Lee Edwin

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. Israel does .
> Would you like me to prove this, for the hundredth time ?
Click to expand...


Is it not readily apparent that he’s a troll, for many years?


----------



## Lee Edwin

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay attention, birdbrain: Palestine is a generic European name for centuries. That’s why Britain called the Mandate by that name. Arabs viewed the country as Syria and called it Sham in Arabic. ⤵View attachment 431486
> 
> View attachment 431486
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Britain called Palestine Palestine.
> 
> Interesting concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes , the TERRITORY was called Palestine. There was no such country , and there never will be.
Click to expand...


In the Ottoman Empire preceding the British Mandate, no place palestine existed.


----------



## toastman

Lee Edwin said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. Israel does .
> Would you like me to prove this, for the hundredth time ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it not readily apparent that he’s a troll, for many years?
Click to expand...

He’s just another pro Palestinian that can’t accept simple truths .


----------



## Lee Edwin

toastman said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. Israel does .
> Would you like me to prove this, for the hundredth time ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it not readily apparent that he’s a troll, for many years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He’s just another pro Palestinian that can’t accept simple truths .
Click to expand...



Arab commentator: “When the State of Israel was established, there was no state called ‘palestine.’ Where did we get that name? It did not exist.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
Click to expand...

That’s a rather silly claim you repeat hoping that in some alternate reality, it might come true.

Pal’istan (Where Dreams Come True Crashing Down in Flames™️)


----------



## Lee Edwin

toastman said:


> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Edwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, the hostilities between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians never actually ceased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claims that it won land.
> 
> You just stated that they did not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> I don't speak for the Israeli people or their government.  I try to stand up for the "truth."
> 
> The terms "win" or "lose" relative to combat engagements are laymen's terms.  They can be used by the politicians just to truncate the "Question 'n' Answer" component to the discussion.  What I can say is this:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.​​◈  The Arab Palestinians generally use methods of _(asymmetric)_ combat that have been outlawed by the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) or methods outlawed by one or more of the *19 international legal instruments* to prevent terrorist acts. ​
> It is also important to note that The Arab Palestinian people have not spoken with a unified political position or authoritative voice since before the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> I say again:  "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."
> 
> It is also important to note that half of the Arab Palestinian political party system _Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)_ is a structured group of Arab Palestinians, established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offenses. And that several other groups of Arab Palestinians such as the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade,’ 'the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Group,’ and the ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ (PFLP) _(as well as other groups)_ *have been identified, all across Europe*, as terrorist groups.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian people that threaten to kill, to injure, or to continue to use force against the State of Israel to accomplish their political agenda are considered to be supporting terrorism.  Palestinian Arab Officials that suggest → *"**Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate*" are (in fact) violating the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) on matters of incitement to violence or propagating propaganda for war.  While many advocates for Arab Palestinian Rights cite the CCPR, they actually actively undermine key provisions of the covenant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF you go back to *Posting #18006*, THEN you'll find I said no such thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean? I copied/pasted your post. Israel is prematurely claiming victory before the end of the conflict.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Arab Palestinians never engaged the Israelis in a traditional fashion _(conventional warfare)_ and achieved a decisive victory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Palestine never had a military, therefore it cannot engage in traditional warfare. However, it does have some civilian militias that defend their country (as they have the right to do) with very limited resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine? Palestine was merely Britain’s fake name for the British Mandate, the purpose of which was ”reconstitution” of the Jewish Homeland, as stated in its terms. British Mandate Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. Palestine is a generic European name. Are you really that dumb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 431472
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not. You are just spouting Israeli bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dumbass: “Palestine” was just Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, as eminent Lebanese-American scholar Franck Salameh has written. Furthermore, Jews were originally called palestinians. ⤵
> 
> View attachment 431480View attachment 431480
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Five years before the Mandate, the Balfour Declaration called the place Palestine.
> 
> Dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a loosely defined region here in the _Great Satan™️_ called the Bible Belt. It’s not a ‘country’, just a colloquial label.
> 
> You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Turks did not recognize your invented ‘country of Pal’istan’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has international borders. The Bible Belt does not.
> 
> Bad analogy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. Israel does .
> Would you like me to prove this, for the hundredth time ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it not readily apparent that he’s a troll, for many years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He’s just another pro Palestinian that can’t accept simple truths .
Click to expand...



Arabs themselves laugh out loud: “When were there any palestinians?! Where?!”


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has international borders.



That's weird, all the armistice agreements with their neighbors were signed by Israel, none were signed by Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lee Edwin

P F Tinmore said:


>



Free palestine? Palestine originated as a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews, about 2,000 years ago. This is news to you?


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems calling themselves 'Pallys' are a hoot. Stolen land, stolen welfare money and stolen versions of hip hop gangsta' videos. 

Is there anything they won't steal?



*PA official praises singer who motions to slit someone’s throat: “If you cross [the border], we’ll put an end to your existence”*









						PA official praises singer who motions to slit someone’s throat: “If you cross [the border], we’ll put an end to your existence” | PMW Analysis
					

Waving a gun and making a motion to slit someone’s throat is part of Gazan singer Abdallah Saaideh’s repertoire in a violent song and music video released in October




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 20, 2020



Waving a gun and making a motion to slit someone’s throat is part of Gazan singer Abdallah Saaideh’s repertoire in a violent song and music video released in October. Stating that “the machine gun is ready,” Saaideh calls for “a fierce war” -  presumably against Israel - warning that anyone who “crosses the border” will be killed:


----------



## Hollie

In the vile, twisted world of Pal Arab'ism,, throwing a Molotov cocktail at a car driven by a pregnant woman accompanied by a young son is “heroic.”




*PA: Murderer of pregnant woman and child is "heroic” and victim of “kidnapping” by Israel*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 21, 2020



According to the Palestinian Authority, Muhammad Daoud who in 1987 murdered, Ofra Moses, a pregnant Israeli woman and mother of four, and her 5-year-old son, Tal, by throwing a Molotov cocktail at their car, is “heroic.”

The PA’s hailing of Daoud as a hero for murdering an Israeli mother of four, came one week before yesterday’s murder of an Israeli mother of six, Esther Hurgan, near her home in Samaria.




Ignoring the fact that Daoud is a child murderer, the PA even portrays him as an innocent victim of Israel, which is said to have “kidnapped” Daoud – a euphemism for his arrest and subsequent imprisonment for life for these murders.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Islamist gee-had rolls on and the Pal Death Cult has another dead teenager. Are the Pals running out of streets to name in “honor” of dead Cultists?











						Palestinian teen opens fire on police near Old City gate, is shot dead
					

No officers injured in shooting, but one lightly hurt in chase; assailant identified as 17-year-old from northern West Bank




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




No officers injured in shooting, but one lightly hurt in chase; assailant identified as 17-year-old from northern West Bank


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Emiratis. They seem to feel _especially_ oppressed being at the back of the line of those poor, oppressed Pally's











						The Emiratis in Jerusalem are a slap in the face for Palestinians
					

Emiratis are now allowed to visit Israel with ease, but we still have no freedom of movement in our own homeland.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Emiratis are now allowed to visit Israel with ease, but we still have no freedom of movement in our own homeland.


----------



## toastman

When the entire world FINALLY realizes that Palestinians celebrate and hand out sweets when Israelis are killed, support for the Palestinians, which is dwindling every day, will simply disappear.


----------



## Hollie

More EU welfare money is being thrown at the Islamic terrorists.

Emir Abbas needs new shoes. 











						The EU is again helping the PA pay salaries to terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

The PA Minister of Social Development, Ahmed Majdalani, announced that tomorrow, Dec. 24th, the PA will pay allowances to 115,000 poor families and that the European Union has contributed 54% of the cost of the benefits.




					palwatch.org
				




*The EU is again helping the PA pay salaries to terrorists*

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 23, 2020
The PA Minister of Social Development, Ahmed Majdalani, announced that tomorrow, Dec. 24th, the PA will pay allowances to 115,000 poor families and that the European Union has contributed 54% of the cost of the benefits. In parallel, the head of the PA funded Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, attempted to deflect the international criticism of the PA’s terror reward payments to Palestinian terrorists, claiming that the PA only pays the terrorists to “ensure a minimal standard of living.”

While it may seem logical to conclude that since the PA, for PR purposes, is now defining the terrorist prisoners’ families as people in need of social welfare, and since the EU is contributing 54% of the current social welfare benefits, the EU is directly contributing to the PA payment of terror rewards to terrorist prisoners. While this conclusion is false, the EU is, nonetheless, again providing the PA with the support it needs, in order to continue paying financial rewards to terrorist prisoners.

Announcing the intention to pay the allowances to the needy and the EU contribution, Majdalani explained:


> “On Thursday [Dec. 24, 2020] the [PA] Ministry [of Social Development] will pay the allowances of the poor families who are benefiting from the cash transfer program… The amount of the allowances that will be transferred in this payment stands at 136,151,268 [Israeli] shekels, and 115,000 families will benefit from it…
> The [PA] government’s participation in this payment stands at 44% of the total amount, and… the European Union (EU) is participating at a rate of 56% of the total amount.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 21, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

It’s Wednesday so the Pally’s have another active Twitter gee-had raging with about 100 tweets twits.

In terms of the overwhelming concentration on everything Israel that represents an OCD-obsession by the Islamic terrorists, denying Israel’s existence makes no sense. 










						New pro-Palestine Twitter campaign denies Israel’s existence
					

Once again it is important to reiterate there is no evidence that the articles being replied to or retweeted have any connection to each other or the coordinated campaign




					m.jpost.com
				




A new campaign on social media platform Twitter appears to include more than one hundred pro-Palestinian accounts which are attacking posts about Israel by claiming that all of Israel is “Palestine.” This campaign was revealed by a post that I put up of a peacock in the Negev over the weekend. The hundred comments on the post are all similar and appear to be a network of Twitter accounts that are coordinated.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: This is the variation on the mantra: "River to the Sea."



Hollie said:


> In terms of the overwhelming concentration on everything Israel that represents an OCD-obsession by the Islamic terrorists, denying Israel’s existence makes no sense.


*(COMMENT)*

Numbers and targeted social media concentration on narrow topics is a very good strategy.  We certainly cannot blame them for using a proven and successful propaganda technique.

That does not mean that it should be embraced their theme.



Hollie said:


> A new campaign on social media platform Twitter appears to include more than one hundred pro-Palestinian accounts that are attacking posts about Israel by claiming that all of Israel is “Palestine.” This campaign was revealed by a post that I put up of a peacock in the Negev over the weekend. The hundred comments on the post are all similar and appear to be a network of Twitter accounts that are coordinated.


*(COMMENT)*

The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), the Palestinian National Liberation Movement (FATAH) *∫* Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (just to name a few) all recite the very same mantra _(River to the Sea)_.  

What I find rather interesting is the fact that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) openly provoke or encourage and threaten to undermine the by supporting act of aggression.  They do so in the open press as if the prohibitions on the advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence can be exercised without fear of criticism.  "Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement believes that *mass murder of children is "legitimate human struggle... that all human laws guarantee"* - on condition that the murderers are Palestinians and the victims are Israelis."

This ideology has been refined and improved since the Arab Higher Committee first openly addressed it in early 1948.  And with little change, has remained the backbone of their theme for three-quarters of a century.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Your silly cut and paste YouTube videos are a hoot. I think terms become separated from their definitions at times. To associate the term “democracy” with Islamic terrorist franchises which refuse basic norms of functioning societies, disallow elements such as rule of law and representative elections gives your YouTube videos a certain amount of sneering disbelief.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Slogans such as “Peace Partners” while driving along reading “Roadmaps to Nowhere” has had remarkable success during the last 3 decades, /snert. Islamic terrorists presume an entitlement for killing, maiming, stabbing, etc., Israeli citizens, so let’s see how well that works during the next 3 decades. 





			https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/palestinian-authority-israel-two-state-solution-talks-1.5849032
		


The Palestinian Authority's foreign minister on Saturday urged Israel to return to talks based on a two-state solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, ahead of the transition to a new U.S. administration.


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas Death Cult has issued an edict to their Cult followers. 




*Hamas Official Ahmad Kulab: It Is Forbidden for Muslims to Congratulate Christians on Christmas*


----------



## Hollie

I'll bet you didn't know this but Jesus was a prophet of Islamism, at least according to the alternate reality that is the Pal Authority. 




*Who was the Palestinian Jesus?*
Dec 24, 2020

Who was the Palestinian Jesus? | PMW Analysis (palwatch.org) 

*According to the Palestinian Authority, Jesus was:*

*“The first Palestinian”*
*“The first Palestinian Martyr”*
*“The first Palestinian fida'i (self-sacrificing fighter)”*
*“A Palestinian messenger”*
*“A Palestinian par excellence”*
*“The great grandfather of the Palestinian people”*
*A prophet of Islam (not Christianity)*
*And accordingly:*

*Christmas is a Palestinian national holiday*
The Palestinian Authority is desperate to create a Palestinian identity built on an ancient Palestinian history, even though none existed. PMW has shown that PA regularly falsely claims that it is a 5000-year-old nation, and regularly claims other people’s history to be its own. One of the striking examples of this is the PA’s falsely linking themselves to one of the most significant figures of all time, claiming that Jesus, a Jew from the nation of Judea, was actually a Palestinian.

This PA fairy-tale history is a repeating message, trumpeted even by the leaders of the Palestinian Authority. Saeb Erekat said Jesus was “the first Palestinian.” Mahmoud Abbas spoke about “Jesus… a Palestinian messenger,” and said that Christmas is a Palestinian holiday.”  Yasser Arafat said "Jesus was the first Palestinian Martyr.” The official PA daily just this week wrote that “Jesus… was the first Palestinian fida'i (self-sacrificing fighter),” and a PA diplomat even claimed that Palestinians are the descendants of Jesus: “Jesus … was the great grandfather of the Palestinian people.” And this morning on PA TV, the PA Government Spokesman Ibrahim Melhem, sent blessings to Christians on the “holiday the birth of the Palestinian prophet Jesus the son of Mary.”

The top PA religious leaders likewise have adopted this myth, adding, based on Islamic claims, that Jesus preached not Christianity but Islam.


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

Hollie said:


> The Hamas Death Cult has issued an edict to their Cult followers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Official Ahmad Kulab: It Is Forbidden for Muslims to Congratulate Christians on Christmas*


a lot of liberal are very attracted to the islamic hate and violence, because they hate many of the same people


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. Somehow I think the Islamic scholar Yousuf, (nyuck, nyuck, soytin-lee), is not a lot of fun going out to yuck it up over a couple of beers. 



In a Friday, November 27, 2020 sermon in Jerusalem that aired on the Hizb ut-Tahrir-affiliated Al-Waqiyah TV (Lebanon), Palestinian Islamic scholar Yousuf Makharzah said that the “libertine, whoring” Western culture has “thrust” mankind into a world of bestiality


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist who will gee-had no more?










						IDF nabs Palestinian suspect in West Bank murder of Esther Horgen
					

Defense officials said the suspect was a Palestinian man from Jenin and that he was being questioned by the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency).




					m.jpost.com
				




A suspect in the murder of Esther Horgen, who was killed in the northern West Bank in an alleged terrorist attack, was arrested in a joint operation by the Police, the IDF, and the Border Police on Thursday.

Horgen, a woman in her 50s, was found dead in the Rehan Forest, close to her home in the settlement of Tal Menashe, after she had been out jogging.


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> Another Islamic terrorist who will gee-had no more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF nabs Palestinian suspect in West Bank murder of Esther Horgen
> 
> 
> Defense officials said the suspect was a Palestinian man from Jenin and that he was being questioned by the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A suspect in the murder of Esther Horgen, who was killed in the northern West Bank in an alleged terrorist attack, was arrested in a joint operation by the Police, the IDF, and the Border Police on Thursday.
> 
> Horgen, a woman in her 50s, was found dead in the Rehan Forest, close to her home in the settlement of Tal Menashe, after she had been out jogging.


I love starting my day reading that another jihadist scum is in jail . Hopefully he gets locked up in a tiny shithole cell for the rest of his life.


----------



## Hollie

It’s not just Pally leaders who are failures. That label has to be shared by people who vote for and support them.



Palestinian Leaders Are 'Failures', Saudi Ex-Spy Chief Says After Abraham Accord Criticism


----------



## Hollie

I suppose it’s time for the Pally’s to demand more UNRWA welfare money while giving a pay raise to Islamic terrorists. 







__





						The situation with the pandemic in Palestine is catastrophic and is getting worse, warns a health official
					






					english.wafa.ps
				




RAMALLAH, Saturday, December 26, 2020 (WAFA) - The situation with the pandemic in Palestine is catastrophic and is getting worse and more dangerous despite the stability of the epidemic curve in some governorates during the past days, while it remains the same in others, today warned Palestinian Ministry of Health spokesman Kamal al-Shakhra, who is also in charge of the corona file.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Hamas Death Cult Kids


----------



## Hollie

In the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank, heroes are defined as Islamic terrorists who kill women and children. It’s a mental illness that pervades both insular enclaves as it is a cradle to grave indoctrination.











						Terrorist hailed as 'hero' by PA after serving 34 years for murder
					

Terrorist Muhammad Daoud is being praised by the PA for murdering an innocent Israeli woman 34 years ago.




					m.jpost.com
				





DECEMBER 23, 2020 08:23
Terrorist Muhammad Daoud is being praised by the PA for murdering an innocent Israeli woman 34 years ago.

In 1987, Ofra Moses, a pregnant Israeli mother of four, and her five-year-old son Tal were murdered by a Palestinian terrorist. The perpetrator has since been praised as “heroic” by the Palestinian Authority.


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## Hollie

Aside from being a form of identity politics, Palestinianism is also a form of presumed entitlement.










						Why are Palestinian leaders rejecting Arab-Israeli peace?
					

Palestinianism is a form of identity politics intended to make Arab Palestinians think of themselves as victims of Israel, Jews and their supporters, and to promote terrorism.




					www.jpost.com
				




Palestinianism is a form of identity politics intended to make Arab Palestinians think of themselves as victims of Israel, Jews and their supporters, and to promote terrorism.

Palestinianism is not a national movement. It is an anti-Jewish movement conceived and dedicated to opposing the right of the Jewish people to reestablish their historic homeland in Eretz Yisrael.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas' annual Christmas message wasn't quite as obsessively about Israel as usual, but what he did say was offensive. 



> We face every day the policies of the Israeli occupation and its aggressive practices against our Islamic and Christian sanctities, the most recent of which was the attack on the Church of the Gethsemane in Jerusalem, in addition to the attacks on the Al-Aqsa Mosque, persecution, repression, and the herds of settlers.


He is blaming the arson attack on the church on Israel altogether.

He is saying Jews must be banned from visiting their holiest site.

He is claiming that Israel specifically attacks Christian and Muslim sites, trying to incite a religious war.



> Despite all of this, we are steadfast, and are confident of victory and freedom, as we deserve justice for our cause, a decent life for our people and the end of the occupation, and our people gained their freedom and independence in their own state and whose capital is East Jerusalem, a state that is not separated by the racist walls of that holy city


.He is calling the separation barrier a "racist wall" - perhaps because it saves lives.

(full article online)









						Abbas' Christmas message is offensive, as always
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*: Mahmoud Abbas_ [ President of the Palestinian National Authority (PA), the (so-called) State of Palestine, and Chairman of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) ]_  has a history → a past pattern of behavior that_ [as a head of state (per se)] _which demonstrates a consistent pattern of political speech designed to provoke threats to the peace and encourage breaches of the peace.



Sixties Fan said:


> Mahmoud Abbas' annual Christmas message wasn't quite as obsessively about Israel as usual, but what he did say was offensive.
> 
> He is blaming the arson attack on the church on Israel altogether.
> 
> He is saying Jews must be banned from visiting their holiest site.
> 
> He is claiming that Israel specifically attacks Christian and Muslim sites, trying to incite a religious war.
> 
> He is calling the separation barrier a "racist wall" - perhaps because it saves lives.


*(COMMENT)*

Arab Palestinians like Mahmoud Abbas have lost their sense of "Right and Wrong."  They have misplaced their "morals and ethics."  And the Arab Palestinians believe that the "political ends" that they pursue are inherent justification to employ any and all means that they use.

But, what is truly a footprint in Abbas's pattern of behavior is that he simply cannot express a festive and celebratory message consistent with the spirit of Christmas.  Everything with him is a struggle that the Arab Palestinians _(even after three-quarters of a century)_ without the advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence.  

The Arab Palestinians simply do not understand the concepts of this season _(Christmas & New Years)_ → when family, friends, and loved ones → even those we struggled with throughout the year → come together if just for the time it takes to deliver a positive Christmas message.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

In today’s episode of “_Mr. Mufti says”, _we see another example of the abiding respect for women that is a part of Arab-Moslem’ism.


*Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative*









						Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative | PMW Analysis
					

Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its own religious leaders continue to present strict - and at times even dangerous - radical interpretations of Islam.




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 27, 2020

Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its religious leaders use the official PA TV station to demand a male-dominated society, in which women must be obedient to their husbands as part of their obligation under Islam.

The PA’s Grand Mufti - who was appointed by PA Chairman Abbas himself - was asked on his weekly TV program if a man’s wife is allowed to travel to Dubai with her daughters without a male relative accompanying them. The PA’s top religious official answered that she is not. She would have to be accompanied by “a man from her family”:


> *Official PA TV host: *“The first question is that his wife wants to travel to Dubai with her daughters without the presence of an accompanying man from her family – is this allowed?”
> *PA Mufti Muhammad Hussein:* “There has to be an accompanying man from her family on the trip.”
> [Official PA TV, _Fatwa_, Dec. 16, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

learning something new every day. It seems there is something of a game of oneupsmanship played out among the various Islamic terrorism franchises in the Pally turf wars. Who has the bigger gee-had is played out among the Koran-addled sociopaths. 




*New Study Evaluates Major Drivers of Palestinian Terrorism*









						New Study Evaluates Major Drivers of Palestinian Terrorism
					

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. Palestinian terrorist attacks are not driven solely by …




					www.algemeiner.com
				










Palestinian terrorist attacks are not driven solely by the desire to kill as many Israelis as possible. Sometimes, the intent is to provoke a harsh Israeli response. Other times, the aim is to shore up public support or outbid rival Palestinian factions.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas’ mass exploitation of Palestinian child soldiers


----------



## Hollie

Another Pally dream crushed by Pally reality.









						Gaza Airport: The legacy of a Palestinian dream
					

The Yasser Arafat International Airport, now in ruins, was more than a project – it was a symbol of Palestinian freedom.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In today’s episode of “_Mr. Mufti says”, _we see another example of the abiding respect for women that is a part of Arab-Moslem’ism.
> 
> 
> *Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its own religious leaders continue to present strict - and at times even dangerous - radical interpretations of Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 27, 2020
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its religious leaders use the official PA TV station to demand a male-dominated society, in which women must be obedient to their husbands as part of their obligation under Islam.
> 
> The PA’s Grand Mufti - who was appointed by PA Chairman Abbas himself - was asked on his weekly TV program if a man’s wife is allowed to travel to Dubai with her daughters without a male relative accompanying them. The PA’s top religious official answered that she is not. She would have to be accompanied by “a man from her family”:
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host: *“The first question is that his wife wants to travel to Dubai with her daughters without the presence of an accompanying man from her family – is this allowed?”
> *PA Mufti Muhammad Hussein:* “There has to be an accompanying man from her family on the trip.”
> [Official PA TV, _Fatwa_, Dec. 16, 2020]
Click to expand...

What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Jihad, Leila el haddad, etc,. etc,. etc.?

The biggest restriction on travel is Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In today’s episode of “_Mr. Mufti says”, _we see another example of the abiding respect for women that is a part of Arab-Moslem’ism.
> 
> 
> *Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its own religious leaders continue to present strict - and at times even dangerous - radical interpretations of Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 27, 2020
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its religious leaders use the official PA TV station to demand a male-dominated society, in which women must be obedient to their husbands as part of their obligation under Islam.
> 
> The PA’s Grand Mufti - who was appointed by PA Chairman Abbas himself - was asked on his weekly TV program if a man’s wife is allowed to travel to Dubai with her daughters without a male relative accompanying them. The PA’s top religious official answered that she is not. She would have to be accompanied by “a man from her family”:
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host: *“The first question is that his wife wants to travel to Dubai with her daughters without the presence of an accompanying man from her family – is this allowed?”
> *PA Mufti Muhammad Hussein:* “There has to be an accompanying man from her family on the trip.”
> [Official PA TV, _Fatwa_, Dec. 16, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Jihad, Leila el haddad, etc,. etc,. etc.?
> 
> The biggest restriction on travel is Israel.
Click to expand...


What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Gee-had, etc., etc., etc?

Restrictions are required to prevent Islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Groups Condemned Over Use of Child Soldiers - Israel Today
					

Everyone is aware of the child soldiers in various African conflicts, but this abhorrent practice is also common among Palestinian groups.




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




If someone wants a war crime to prosecute, look no further…


----------



## Likkmee

Palz are the ones who caused Denny prices to skyrocket. They stole all the tablecloths !


----------



## Likkmee

NOT fake news


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In today’s episode of “_Mr. Mufti says”, _we see another example of the abiding respect for women that is a part of Arab-Moslem’ism.
> 
> 
> *Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its own religious leaders continue to present strict - and at times even dangerous - radical interpretations of Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 27, 2020
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its religious leaders use the official PA TV station to demand a male-dominated society, in which women must be obedient to their husbands as part of their obligation under Islam.
> 
> The PA’s Grand Mufti - who was appointed by PA Chairman Abbas himself - was asked on his weekly TV program if a man’s wife is allowed to travel to Dubai with her daughters without a male relative accompanying them. The PA’s top religious official answered that she is not. She would have to be accompanied by “a man from her family”:
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host: *“The first question is that his wife wants to travel to Dubai with her daughters without the presence of an accompanying man from her family – is this allowed?”
> *PA Mufti Muhammad Hussein:* “There has to be an accompanying man from her family on the trip.”
> [Official PA TV, _Fatwa_, Dec. 16, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Jihad, Leila el haddad, etc,. etc,. etc.?
> 
> The biggest restriction on travel is Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Gee-had, etc., etc., etc?
> 
> Restrictions are required to prevent Islamic terrorist attacks.
Click to expand...

Israeli BS. Ashrawi is a Christian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In today’s episode of “_Mr. Mufti says”, _we see another example of the abiding respect for women that is a part of Arab-Moslem’ism.
> 
> 
> *Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top PA religious official prohibits women from traveling without a male relative | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its own religious leaders continue to present strict - and at times even dangerous - radical interpretations of Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 27, 2020
> 
> Although the PA likes to present itself as a secular authority, its religious leaders use the official PA TV station to demand a male-dominated society, in which women must be obedient to their husbands as part of their obligation under Islam.
> 
> The PA’s Grand Mufti - who was appointed by PA Chairman Abbas himself - was asked on his weekly TV program if a man’s wife is allowed to travel to Dubai with her daughters without a male relative accompanying them. The PA’s top religious official answered that she is not. She would have to be accompanied by “a man from her family”:
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host: *“The first question is that his wife wants to travel to Dubai with her daughters without the presence of an accompanying man from her family – is this allowed?”
> *PA Mufti Muhammad Hussein:* “There has to be an accompanying man from her family on the trip.”
> [Official PA TV, _Fatwa_, Dec. 16, 2020]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Jihad, Leila el haddad, etc,. etc,. etc.?
> 
> The biggest restriction on travel is Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Hannan Ashrawi, Janna Gee-had, etc., etc., etc?
> 
> Restrictions are required to prevent Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli BS. Ashrawi is a Christian.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with Israel restricting Pals from acts of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Under the glaring light of criticism that exposes the Pally’s as sponsors / enablers of Islamic terrorism, people are taking notice.





*PMW’s initiative edges closer to ending the PA’s terror reward payments









						PMW’s initiative edges closer to ending the PA’s terror reward payments | PMW Analysis
					

In an attempt to temporarily circumvent the law, the PA is planning to pay terrorists 3 months’ salary in advance - before the new law takes effect




					palwatch.org
				



*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 28, 2020

*Israeli anti-terror law that defines PA salary payments to terrorists as a criminal offence due to come into force on December 31, 2020.*
*In an attempt to temporarily circumvent the law, the PA is planning to pay terrorists 3 months’ salary in advance - before the new law takes effect  *
On Dec. 31, the provisions of Israel’s Anti-Terror Law that outlaw financial remuneration as a reward for the commission of terror crimes, comes into force in Judea and Samaria) i.e.,  the West Bank), including in the areas under the control of the Palestinian Authority. The new law provides an additional source to define the PA salary payments to the terrorist prisoners and released terrorists as illegal payments.

The 2016 Israeli Anti-Terror Law was first adopted in Judea and Samaria in February 2020 and was set to come into force on May 9. According to the provision, any person who carries out a transaction with property that “supports, promotes, funds or *rewards*” the commission of defined terror crimes, will be subject to a prison sentence of up to seven to 10 years (depending on the nature or severity of the offence for which the property was given).


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves "Pals'' are having a difficult time resolving their abandonment as the center of the Arab-Moslem universe, Morocco seeking to normalize ties with Israel is an apparent disruption to the Pal-centric universe. 










						‘Doesn’t serve Palestinians’: Israel-Morocco to normalise ties
					

How the world reacted to announcement that Morocco will normalise relations with Israel in US-brokered deal.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




*"Doesn’t serve Palestinians’: Israel-Morocco to normalise ties*


----------



## Hollie

I certainly hope the EU will acknowledge their responsibility to shower the Pals with more welfare money so the Pals can, you know, waste more EU welfare money.

Allah ain't liken' no music... and no parties. Music is a gateway activity to parties. 









						Palestinians vandalize EU-funded site to protest music party
					

Abandoned for many years, the site previously served as a center for the rehabilitation of drug addicts from east Jerusalem and the West Bank




					www.jpost.com
				




Palestinians vandalize EU-funded site to protest music party.

Abandoned for many years, the site previously served as a center for the rehabilitation of drug addicts from east Jerusalem and the West Bank


----------



## Hollie

With nothing better to do with their welfare money, Hamas thought it would be a good idea to litter the sea by firing rickets and watching them splash in the water. 

I suspect it was meant to impress the Mullocrats in Iran. 

When welfare money grows on the welfare fraud tree and you have nothing better to do, it adds some excitement to your day, I suppose. 










						Gaza militants fire rockets out to sea in military drill
					

Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip fired a salvo of rockets into the Mediterranean Sea on Tuesday as part of a self-styled military drill aimed at preparing for a possible war with Israel.  The Islamic militant group Hamas has ruled Gaza since seizing power from rival Palestinian forces in...




					news.yahoo.com
				





Gaza City, Palestinian Territories — The Gaza Strip’s rulers Hamas fired rockets into the sea on Monday after repeated exchanges of fire with Israel in recent days, Palestinian security sources and eyewitnesses said.

At least eight rockets were seen in the sky, heading toward the Mediterranean Sea, said AFP journalists in the coastal strip, which has been under Israeli blockade for more than a decade.


The interior ministry of the Palestinian enclave under Hamas control since 2007 referred to “an act of resistance”.

The rockets were a “message” to Israel to let it know that armed groups in Gaza will not “remain silent” in the face of an Israeli blockade and “aggression”, a source close to Hamas told AFP.ISRAEL

Displaying 30+ ​


----------



## Hollie

a “pledge to Allah” that Fatah “will never leave”:

Why leave when the welfare money keeps flowing? I suppose Allah likes his welfare as much as the Islamic terrorists.

But wait, I thought we were lectured that “it’s not about religion”? That’s strange when the Islamic terrorists tell us differently in both words and actions. 



*Terror, Terror, Terror – remains Fatah’s motto for 2021









						Terror, Terror, Terror – remains Fatah’s motto for 2021 | PMW Analysis
					

Dozens of masked fighters with automatic rifles and pistols marched in the parades




					palwatch.org
				



*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 29, 2020




*Fatah publishes video from terror rally*
Abbas’ Fatah movement released a video this week of one of last year’s terror parades. While Fatah usually marches every year around January 1st to celebrate the movement’s first terror attack in 1965, possible COVID-19 restrictions that will prevent such marches might have made Fatah decide to publish this video of one of last year’s parades. The 30-minute video shows a terror parade in the streets of Salfit. Fatah members/supporters parade with automatic rifles and guns. As background to the video, Fatah added a song with a “pledge to the revolution” – a “pledge to Allah” that Fatah “will never leave”:


----------



## Hollie

Very much the reality in universities theses days. There are “assistant professors” who are qualified only to teach future Burger King employees (holding thousands of dollars in debt), for attending such things as “Africana Studies” programs.

I suppose an “Africana Studies” program would naturally include indoctrination in the ways of gee-had proctored by knuckleheads who might do better making a career move to Mcdonalds. 











						Professors push Palestinians to ‘resist,’ rather than live in peace
					

While whitewashing terrorism, educators like Noura Erakat at Rutgers University mythologize Palestinians’ past and deny Israeli existence.




					www.jns.org
				




(December 1, 2020 / JNS) For Palestinians, the “major shift has to be to a politics of resistance; it has to be about alienating Israel,” stated Rutgers University assistant professor of Africana Studies Noura Erakat during a Nov. 17 Middle East Institute (MEI) panel webinar. The participants’ radicalism illustrated how the Palestinian national movement’s intellectual barrenness may stymy any foolish return to traditional Israeli-Palestinian peace processes by a future Biden administration.


----------



## Hollie

Say it ain’t so, Sami.

30 years ago, 70 years ago and the slogans, tirades and threats are as empty and tired then as now.

“_Revolution™️“

“The Zionist Entity™️“_

“_Gee-had™️_“

Just the highlights (or maybe lowlights), but can’t Ummah Intl. Inc., find some new slogans?










						Sami al-Arian Renews Calls for Israel’s Destruction at Turkish Conference
					

Attorney Linda Moreno makes point after sentencing of Sami al-Arian in Tampa Federal court. Photo: Reuters. Nearly 30 years ago, …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Nearly 30 years ago, Sami al-Arian stood before an audience in Chicago and made his radical ideology as clear as possible.

“The Quran is our constitution,” he bellowed. “Jihad is our path … Victory to Islam… Death to Israel… Revolution… revolution till the victory.”


----------



## Hollie

While we have been lectured about the Pallys having no military, a Pally military 'expert' has some controversial ideas about Rabbis and what they teach children. 

These flaming tirades from Pally fruit loops tends to cast a lot of negative stereotypes on the more excitable of the Pally 'experts'. 


*Israeli rabbis teach kids to “kill everyone who is not Jewish” – libelous demonization by Palestinian “expert”*









						Israeli rabbis teach kids to “kill everyone who is not Jewish” – libelous demonization by Palestinian “expert” | PMW Analysis
					

To further distance peace with Israel, the PA continuously demonizes Israel and Jews, convincing the Palestinian population that they deserve to be hated.




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 30, 2020




To further distance peace with Israel, the PA continuously demonizes Israel and Jews, convincing the Palestinian population that they deserve to be hated.

One example of the libelous messages fed to Palestinians was delivered by a Palestinian “military expert” who taught TV viewers that Israeli/Jewish children are educated by rabbis to “kill everyone who is not Jewish”:


----------



## Hollie

They do tend to be rather conspiracy theory addled.


Recently Released Palestinian Terrorist Zaher Ghanem: Israel Might Poison Palestinian Prisoners


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I suppose there's a reason why a gee-had wannabe proctoring 'Afrikana studies' has a rather odd view of reality.











						Palestinian Rutgers Prof Spins Vehicular Jihad Attack as “Car Accident”
					

“The car looks like from the video that it lost control,” Rutgers University law professor Noura Erakat recently fantasized about her Palestinian cousin’s June 23 death; her cousin was clearly filmed in a car ramming attack near Jerusalem against Israeli police. Her lies about this jihad...




					www.jihadwatch.org
				




The car looks like from the video that it lost control,” Rutgers University law professor Noura Erakat recently fantasized about her Palestinian cousin’s June 23 death; her cousin was clearly filmed in a car ramming attack near Jerusalem against Israeli police. Her lies about this jihad violence, obvious to any objective observer, merely added to her grotesque Israel-hatred in a July 14 Institute of Middle East Understanding (IMEU) podcast with her equally radical host, Omar Baddar.


----------



## Hollie

There is some pompous bluster about something called “_*Gee-had Fest 2021™️“  *_coming from the Islamic terrorist Fatah franchise.

This will be another disaster for the Pallys, something like the failed border gee-had that left a lot of dead and wounded sacrificial Pals and the international community bored with more Islamic terrorist use of child soldiers.



*Armed struggle - Fatah’s focus for 2021*










						Armed struggle - Fatah’s focus for 2021 | PMW Analysis
					

These days, Abbas’ Fatah Movement is busy highlighting its upcoming 56th anniversary. “The Launch” of Fatah is counted from its first terror attack against Israel, when the movement attempted to blow up Israel's National Water Carrier on Jan. 1, 1965.




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 31, 2020





These days, Abbas’ Fatah Movement is busy highlighting its upcoming 56th anniversary. “The Launch” of Fatah is counted from its first terror attack against Israel, when the movement attempted to blow up Israel's National Water Carrier on Jan. 1, 1965.

In line with earlier years’ celebrations and anniversary posters and logos, Fatah this year too focuses on the “armed struggle” and its continued uncompromising attitude towards peace with Israel.
The central image on Fatah’s poster above is a line of masked men holding Kalashnikov assault rifles, while text glorifies “the revolution.”


> *Text at bottom of image:* “Long live the anniversary of the outbreak of the modern Palestinian revolution
> Revolution until victory”
> *Posted text:* “The anniversary approaches
> #Fatah56
> #_Intilaqa_” (i.e, “_The Launch_”)
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, Dec. 17 and 21, 2020;
> Facebook page of Fatah Deputy Chairman Mahmoud Al-Aloul, Dec. 21, 2020]


----------



## Hollie

A consortium of Islamic terrorist franchises were playing army.

UNRWA welfare fraud money buys a lot of Islamic terrorist fun and games.

“Gaza Joint Command”.  Soytin-lee. Nyuck, nyuck nyuck.

The joints were smoked.


----------



## Hollie

The next generation of dead / wounded.

Gee-had rocks, dude.


----------



## Hollie

With the west spending decades supplying boatloads of cash to the Islamic terrorist franchises, the Fatah Cult is having a celebration of its first attempted Islamic terrorist attack.

And the west is in part, footing the bill for these sociopaths and misfits to hold this ‘celebration’. 











						Fatah to celebrate first attempted terrorist attack in Israel
					

A video also featured a girl as young as 13 holding a gun.




					m.jpost.com
				




A video also featured a girl as young as 13 holding a gun.

The Palestinian political party and organization Fatah is planning to commemorate its first attempted terrorist attack in light of the New Year, according to a Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) report Thursday.

On Friday, January 1, Fatah will commemorate the 56th anniversary of terrorist attacks against Israeli targets, including infrastructure and civilians, when they attempted to blow up Israel’s National Water Carrier in 1965


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,

*BLUF*: I find many of the items you post interesting.  But this excerpt really caught my eye.


>


*(COMMENT)*

While it is sad that Arab Palestinians single claim to fame is the recurring promotion of violence.  Sad that their national heroes are terrorists.

Here is an example of the Ruling Party in the Ramallah Government calling for an uprising.  They know that Any propaganda for war is prohibited by law.
And Fatah's advocacy and incitement for the outbreak of hostility or street violence is specifically prohibited by the Covenant.
OHCHR | *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR)(entered into force 23 March 1976)

The Arab Palestinians might, someday, resemble a civilized society that focuses on something other than hatred and violence, but it probably won't happen in my lifetime.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I find many of the items you post interesting.  But this excerpt really caught my eye.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 435471
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is sad that Arab Palestinians single claim to fame is the recurring promotion of violence.  Sad that their national heroes are terrorists.
> 
> Here is an example of the Ruling Party in the Ramallah Government calling for an uprising.  They know that Any propaganda for war is prohibited by law.
> And Fatah's advocacy and incitement for the outbreak of hostility or street violence is specifically prohibited by the Covenant.
> OHCHR | *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR)(entered into force 23 March 1976)
> 
> The Arab Palestinians might, someday, resemble a civilized society that focuses on something other than hatred and violence, but it probably won't happen in my lifetime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I agree that the belligerent Pal-Arabs have managed to associate their name with Islamic terrorism and retrogression. The Pals have yet to come to grips with the realization that tyranny functions on the short term (even if the short term is a few hundred years), but it cannot sustain itself indefinitely because it precisely creates the paradigm of "if you can do it, I can do it" upon which ethics and morality are based. If I can be a despot who achieved power through murder, kidnapping and assassination, then I should not complain when another would-be despot murders or assassinates me in order to fill my place. This dynamic operates right down to individuals. If I create a society in which it's desirable as a religious duty to murder, then I should not be surprised when I am murdered or my children are murdered. We saw that dynamic very clearly during the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war. The above dynamic has driven cultural mores in the Pal territories since the various factions began to square off against each othet.

The expanding list of Klans in the Pal territories as represented by Hamas, Fatah, PIJ, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, PLO, Harakat al-Sabireen (have I missed any)?, are committed to press their own agenda of reclaiming their Islamic waqf which requires the destruction of Israel. Their motivations for violence and harm means the listed groups brutalize and oppress their own people as well. They are purveyors of violence. In reply, others will respond with violence to their acts of aggression. It’s not as though diplomacy will work with groups such as these. And it’s true that non-violence can work under certain circumstances. Ghandi and Martin Luther King provided examples of that, although, in both cases, they were operating against an injustice, not a barbarian. But given the above as an example, the greater good always comes in terms of the greater cooperation. Ghandi certainly recognized this aspect of human nature, as did Martin Luther King.

In the view of the Islamic terrorist groups, there is only unrelenting war on Israel. Such a worldview is abhorrent and unproductive in terms of their survival. The Pals repeat their mistakes while never looking for actions that they could take to improve their lot in life. The 1,400 year old politico-religious code that seems to drive the Pals makes no allowance for accommodation. Meanwhile, they become less and less relevant in a changing Middle East.


----------



## Hollie

Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”

I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.

I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that. 



			https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie,  et al,

*BLUF*: You are right. Israel has borders.



Hollie said:


> Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”
> 
> I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.
> 
> I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories


*(REFERENCES)*

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 • 

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel • 

◈ Golan Heights Law • 

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) • 

United Nations, Security Council Documents 1975 S/11818 of 2 September 1975, as well as S/11818/Add.l/ Corr.l, S/11818/Add.l, S/11818/Add.2, S/11818/Add.3, S/11818/Add.4, S/11818/Add.5/Corr.l and S/11818/ Add.5, and United Nations, Security Council Documents 1974 S/11198 of 18 January 1974 and S/11198/Add.l

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • 

◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon • 

The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (Treaty # 564). Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia." 

Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.

Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
\




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are right. Israel has borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”
> 
> I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.
> 
> I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈ Israeli-PalestinianInterim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
> 
> ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel•
> 
> ◈ Golan Heights Law•
> 
> ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
> 
> United Nations, Security Council Documents 1975 S/11818 of 2 September 1975, as well as S/11818/Add.l/ Corr.l, S/11818/Add.l, S/11818/Add.2, S/11818/Add.3, S/11818/Add.4, S/11818/Add.5/Corr.l and S/11818/ Add.5, and United Nations, Security Council Documents 1974 S/11198 of 18 January 1974 and S/11198/Add.l
> 
> ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
> 
> ◈Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (Treaty # 564). Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."
> 
> Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.
> 
> Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
> \
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities.


Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries. Later to become citizens of Palestine by domestic law.


RoccoR said:


> And the Allied Powers set the boundaries.


They did, but then decided not to annex the territories. The inhabitants inherited those territories.The inhabitants are the sovereigns of their territory as stated in subsequent UN resolutions.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.



Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


Why did only Israelis sign?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are right. Israel has borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”
> 
> I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.
> 
> I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈ Israeli-PalestinianInterim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
> 
> ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel•
> 
> ◈ Golan Heights Law•
> 
> ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
> 
> United Nations, Security Council Documents 1975 S/11818 of 2 September 1975, as well as S/11818/Add.l/ Corr.l, S/11818/Add.l, S/11818/Add.2, S/11818/Add.3, S/11818/Add.4, S/11818/Add.5/Corr.l and S/11818/ Add.5, and United Nations, Security Council Documents 1974 S/11198 of 18 January 1974 and S/11198/Add.l
> 
> ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
> 
> ◈Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (Treaty # 564). Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."
> 
> Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.
> 
> Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
> \
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries. Later to become citizens of Palestine by domestic law.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Allied Powers set the boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did, but then decided not to annex the territories. The inhabitants inherited those territories.The inhabitants are the sovereigns of their territory as stated in subsequent UN resolutions.
Click to expand...

You allude to some borders and what you apparently believe were a number of countries you insist were created by the Treaty of Lausanne yet you cannot identify anywhere in the Treaty what countries were created or the borders of those imagined countries. I know with certainty that you have been advised of this on dozens of occasions yet you continue pressing some rather delusional beliefs. The Treaty of Lausanne identifies nothing about countries created upon signing of the Treaty. As you apparently are not aware, no representative of any “Pal’istan

There is nothing in the Treaty of Lausanne that sets forth “inheritance” of territory.

Where do you get these ideas?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...

Were armistice agreements signed on behalf of Pal-Arabs which no one knows about?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are right. Israel has borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”
> 
> I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.
> 
> I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈ Israeli-PalestinianInterim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
> 
> ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel•
> 
> ◈ Golan Heights Law•
> 
> ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
> 
> United Nations, Security Council Documents 1975 S/11818 of 2 September 1975, as well as S/11818/Add.l/ Corr.l, S/11818/Add.l, S/11818/Add.2, S/11818/Add.3, S/11818/Add.4, S/11818/Add.5/Corr.l and S/11818/ Add.5, and United Nations, Security Council Documents 1974 S/11198 of 18 January 1974 and S/11198/Add.l
> 
> ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
> 
> ◈Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (Treaty # 564). Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."
> 
> Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.
> 
> Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
> \
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries. Later to become citizens of Palestine by domestic law.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Allied Powers set the boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did, but then decided not to annex the territories. The inhabitants inherited those territories.The inhabitants are the sovereigns of their territory as stated in subsequent UN resolutions.
Click to expand...

What are these imaginary boundaries you are talking about?
Who borders Palestine to the west? East? North? South?
When were these borders created and provide a link for each one please, like I have for Israel many times ...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are right. Israel has borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”
> 
> I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.
> 
> I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈ Israeli-PalestinianInterim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
> 
> ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel•
> 
> ◈ Golan Heights Law•
> 
> ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
> 
> United Nations, Security Council Documents 1975 S/11818 of 2 September 1975, as well as S/11818/Add.l/ Corr.l, S/11818/Add.l, S/11818/Add.2, S/11818/Add.3, S/11818/Add.4, S/11818/Add.5/Corr.l and S/11818/ Add.5, and United Nations, Security Council Documents 1974 S/11198 of 18 January 1974 and S/11198/Add.l
> 
> ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
> 
> ◈Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (Treaty # 564). Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."
> 
> Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.
> 
> Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
> \
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries. Later to become citizens of Palestine by domestic law.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Allied Powers set the boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did, but then decided not to annex the territories. The inhabitants inherited those territories.The inhabitants are the sovereigns of their territory as stated in subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You allude to some borders and what you apparently believe were a number of countries you insist were created by the Treaty of Lausanne yet you cannot identify anywhere in the Treaty what countries were created or the borders of those imagined countries. I know with certainty that you have been advised of this on dozens of occasions yet you continue pressing some rather delusional beliefs. The Treaty of Lausanne identifies nothing about countries created upon signing of the Treaty. As you apparently are not aware, no representative of any “Pal’istan
> 
> There is nothing in the Treaty of Lausanne that sets forth “inheritance” of territory.
> 
> Where do you get these ideas?
Click to expand...

It is too complicated for you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Hollie,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are right. Israel has borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our friend P F Tinmore has decided not to identify some claimed “new states” he insists exist having something to do with the Treaty of Lausanne and additionally is not willing to identify something he calls international borders attached to some place he calls “the country of Pal’istan”
> 
> I checked nationmaster for one source and found no record of “new states”. If these “new states” were created as a part of the Treaty of Lausanne, someone apparently forgot to name them. I did not find any data on a country called “Palestine” or borders attached to such a place.
> 
> I did find data for Israel and a listing of bordering states. If Israel has identifiable borders with such places as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc., I would then assume that Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, have identifiable borders with Israel, but I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Background/Neighboring-countries-and-territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈ Israeli-PalestinianInterim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
> 
> ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel•
> 
> ◈ Golan Heights Law•
> 
> ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
> 
> United Nations, Security Council Documents 1975 S/11818 of 2 September 1975, as well as S/11818/Add.l/ Corr.l, S/11818/Add.l, S/11818/Add.2, S/11818/Add.3, S/11818/Add.4, S/11818/Add.5/Corr.l and S/11818/ Add.5, and United Nations, Security Council Documents 1974 S/11198 of 18 January 1974 and S/11198/Add.l
> 
> ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
> 
> ◈Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (Treaty # 564). Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."
> 
> Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.
> 
> Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
> \
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries. Later to become citizens of Palestine by domestic law.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Allied Powers set the boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did, but then decided not to annex the territories. The inhabitants inherited those territories.The inhabitants are the sovereigns of their territory as stated in subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You allude to some borders and what you apparently believe were a number of countries you insist were created by the Treaty of Lausanne yet you cannot identify anywhere in the Treaty what countries were created or the borders of those imagined countries. I know with certainty that you have been advised of this on dozens of occasions yet you continue pressing some rather delusional beliefs. The Treaty of Lausanne identifies nothing about countries created upon signing of the Treaty. As you apparently are not aware, no representative of any “Pal’istan
> 
> There is nothing in the Treaty of Lausanne that sets forth “inheritance” of territory.
> 
> Where do you get these ideas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is too complicated for you.
Click to expand...


It's not complicated at all. It's just a fact that Israel has entered into treaties with nations which have been identified for you on dozens of occasions. You retreat into conspiracy theory mode, spam the board with nonsensical claims about those treaties not existing and then blather on with claims about imaginary 'new states' and an imaginary 'country of Pal'istan' which don't exist, When you're presented with the facts, you spam the board with more nonsense because your intent is to spam the board.

Here's a link to the Treaty of Lausanne. Identify a single instance of the term 'Palestine'

Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive (byu.edu)

Identify a single instance of the term 'inheritance' or 'inheritance of territory'.




In anticipation of your usual spam, _____________ <------- here is where you can cut and paste your dancing men cartoons and add the usual babble.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...

So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented. 

Link?

Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.

Anything yet on those 'new states'?

Link? 

_Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
Click to expand...

Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
---------------
A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*



> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]











						League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



----------------
*Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
Click to expand...

I’m afraid your fraud is exposed as such. The footnote creating your ‘state of Pal’istan’ is an opinion.

You didn’t find it odd that the Islamic terrorists in Fatah and Hamas are still whining about ‘statehood’?

Cut and paste your zebra next time. That’s always good for a laugh.


----------



## Hollie

There’s a planned celebration in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Fatah’istan. It’s a commemoration of what you might expect; a commemoration of an attempted Islamic terrorist attack. In many places, commemorations are in place to celebrate achievements of individuals who made a positive contribution to society or events that served a national interest.

In the alternate universe of Islamic Terrorist’istan, they celebrate attacks on civilians and infrastructure.











						Fatah to celebrate first attempted terrorist attack in Israel
					

A video also featured a girl as young as 13 holding a gun.




					m.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian political party and organization Fatah is planning to commemorate its first attempted terrorist attack in light of the New Year, according to a Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) report Thursday.

On Friday, January 1, Fatah will commemorate the 56th anniversary of terrorist attacks against Israeli targets, including infrastructure and civilians, when they attempted to blow up Israel’s National Water Carrier in 1965.


----------



## Hollie

Animated video glorifying Palestinian terror attacks posted to TikTok
					

Palestinian Media Watch says clip on social media site popular with children is latest in a string of 'similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Palestinian Media Watch says clip on social media site popular with children is latest in a string of ‘similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis’ 




A screenshot from an animated recreation of a Palestinian stabbing attack posted on the popular social media app TikTok. (Screenshot)
It’s called programming the next generation of Cultists. What passes for content aimed at children is just vile in the Pally Death Cult but ‘get’em while they’re young’ is a tactic common to Cults.


An animated video portraying several real-life Palestinian terror attacks against Israelis was found TikTok, the on the  video-sharing social networking app popular with children, the Palestinian Media Watch NGO said Wednesday.

The video, which appeared to glorify the murder of Jews, highlighted four separate attacks in CGI vignettes set to heroic music. PMW, an Israeli watchdog which monitors Palestinian media, said that it had previously “exposed similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis” and noted that TikTok was popular among children.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
Click to expand...

What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!


----------



## Hollie

The Abbas Islamic terrorist franchise would like nothing more than a chance to a return of those halcyon days when the _Great Satan_™️ showered them with financing for presidential jets, weapons and ammo for the gee-had and boatloads of cash for their personal bank accounts. 

Shia Iranian money will finance a portion of the gee-had but there’s nothing like cash from the infidel to bolster that Islamic tradition of _jizyah_. 










						Report: PA Seeking Reset with U.S. - Hamodia.com
					

The Palestinian Authority is angling for a reset of relations with the U.S. predicated on a removal of the PA from Washington’s list of terror groups, The




					hamodia.com
				




The Palestinian Authority is angling for a reset of relations with the U.S. predicated on a removal of the PA from Washington’s list of terror groups, The Times of Israel reported on Thursday.

The Palestinians are hoping that the Biden administration will agree to support a repeal of congressional legislation from 1987 that labeled the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) “and its affiliates” a terror group, senior Palestinian officials told the Times.

PA officials were quoted as saying that a plan to modify its method of payouts to Palestinian security prisoners and the families of terrorists could make possible a change in Washington.

The altered policy would base the stipends on prisoners’ financial need rather than the length of their sentence, which critics have long pointed to as evidence that the money is a reward for terrorism, otherwise branded “pay for slay.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
					

Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored




					honestreporting.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
Click to expand...

Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.

What part of that confuses you?


----------



## surada

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have no fear, SA is going to have nukes first, buying them from Pakistan. And yet Iran does not have nukes. Possibly they should buy them from Russia. I find it amazing that your all on Sunnis side, when Iran is helping us fight Isis and Isis are rebel Sunnis, (I think they are paid mercenaries, but that is besides the point) , and the point is Saudi Arabia and Qatar is worst than Iran , Iran need I remind everyone never attacked the US or any other country.
Click to expand...



Saudi Arabia has opposed nuclear proliferation in the region for 70 years. After Israel loaned US foreign aid money to  India to build nukes KSA paid for Pakistan to also develop nuclear weapons.. KSA won't be buying them from Pakistan.  In fact, KSA wants nuclear Desalination NOT nuclear weapons unless they are  forced into them by Iran.

Meanwhile, Qatar  is on the same side as Iran because they share the South Pars gas field and host both Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Martin Van Creveld also said Israel didn't need the occupied West Bank or Golan Heights for defense.

Not to worry.. Most of our state dept doesn't know squat about the ME either.

Iran isn't going to bomb Israel.. They would be a greasy spot in 30 minutes.. That's just Bibi's way of keeping the fear and the money flowing


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> Animated video glorifying Palestinian terror attacks posted to TikTok
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch says clip on social media site popular with children is latest in a string of 'similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch says clip on social media site popular with children is latest in a string of ‘similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A screenshot from an animated recreation of a Palestinian stabbing attack posted on the popular social media app TikTok. (Screenshot)
> It’s called programming the next generation of Cultists. What passes for content aimed at children is just vile in the Pally Death Cult but ‘get’em while they’re young’ is a tactic common to Cults.
> 
> 
> An animated video portraying several real-life Palestinian terror attacks against Israelis was found TikTok, the on the  video-sharing social networking app popular with children, the Palestinian Media Watch NGO said Wednesday.
> 
> The video, which appeared to glorify the murder of Jews, highlighted four separate attacks in CGI vignettes set to heroic music. PMW, an Israeli watchdog which monitors Palestinian media, said that it had previously “exposed similar animations urging Palestinians to murder Israelis” and noted that TikTok was popular among children.



Demonizing the Palestinians is an old, old tactic.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

*BLUF*: I am not sure what difference the "magnitude" _(the extent observers the number)_ has to do with the impact on and decision. Whether it is Zero, a hundred thousand, or in the millions. The numbers should not alter or influence the decisions to be made.



Sixties Fan said:


> Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com


*(REFERENCEs)*

There are requirement issues and criteria that need to be agreed upon.  

For nearly three-quarters of a century, the Arab Palestinians in the territories adjacent to Israel have considered themselves some sort of special case.  And they have determined that they can alter the definition of a "Refugee" that is much, much broader than humanity has considered and defined a "Refugees" in the past _(and unto the present day)_.

In my opinion, there are a couple of key points that will significantly reduce the numbers covered for services under CERI (Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions).  A Palestinian Refugee is defined by CERI as:


			
				Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions said:
			
		

> *Palestine Refugee* Any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict, and descendants of such persons, including legally adopted children, through the male line. UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria are formulated for the Agency’s operational purposes. There are persons who are registered by host countries/authorities as Palestine refugees or Palestinian refugees but who are not registered as Palestine Refugees in the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) Registration System and who may or may not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria.
> 
> Source:  United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) • *Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions*


_*NOTE:*_ _"The purpose of this definition to  set  out  for  the  guidance  of UNRWA  staff,  the  persons  and categories   of   persons   who   are eligible   to   register   to   receive UNRWA  services  and  those  who are   eligible   to   receive   services without being registered; _​

"The 1951 Convention consolidates previous international instruments relating to refugees and provides the most comprehensive codification of the rights of refugees at the international level. In contrast to earlier international refugee instruments, which applied to specific groups of refugees, the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.



			
				 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees said:
			
		

> EXCERPT • Article 1
> For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall apply to any person who:
> 
> (1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization; Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfill the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;
> 
> (2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.
> 
> Source:  United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), *United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*


_*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_​​*(COMMENT)*

While the descendants of Refugee, including legally adopted children, are eligible for services under CERI, they should not be considered a Refugee if they have never lived anywhere other than a territory adjacent to Israel.

While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they enjoy the protection of the State of Palestine _(alla 2012)_ or have participated in the Arab Palestinian elections of 2006. 

While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they represent a threat to national security, public order, public health, or a danger to the other rights recognized in the* International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*.

While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they have been involved in Any propaganda effort for war, or the advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence prohibited by law (IAW CCPR).





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...

Ok, then when was Palestine created as a state?? Exactly what day, month and year??


----------



## surada

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I am not sure what difference the "magnitude" _(the extent observers the number)_ has to do with the impact on and decision. Whether it is Zero, a hundred thousand, or in the millions. The numbers should not alter or influence the decisions to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> There are requirement issues and criteria that need to be agreed upon.
> 
> For nearly three-quarters of a century, the Arab Palestinians in the territories adjacent to Israel have considered themselves some sort of special case.  And they have determined that they can alter the definition of a "Refugee" that is much, much broader than humanity has considered and defined a "Refugees" in the past _(and unto the present day)_.
> 
> In my opinion, there are a couple of key points that will significantly reduce the numbers covered for services under CERI (Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions).  A Palestinian Refugee is defined by CERI as:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugee* Any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict, and descendants of such persons, including legally adopted children, through the male line. UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria are formulated for the Agency’s operational purposes. There are persons who are registered by host countries/authorities as Palestine refugees or Palestinian refugees but who are not registered as Palestine Refugees in the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) Registration System and who may or may not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria.​​Source:  United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) • *Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The purpose of this definition to  set  out  for  the  guidance  of UNRWA  staff,  the  persons  and categories   of   persons   who   are eligible   to   register   to   receive UNRWA  services  and  those  who are   eligible   to   receive   services without being registered; _​
> 
> "The 1951 Convention consolidates previous international instruments relating to refugees and provides the most comprehensive codification of the rights of refugees at the international level. In contrast to earlier international refugee instruments, which applied to specific groups of refugees, the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 1​For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall apply to any person who:​​(1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization; Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfill the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;​​(2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.​​Source:  United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), *United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_​​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the descendants of Refugee, including legally adopted children, are eligible for services under CERI, they should not be considered a Refugee if they have never lived anywhere other than a territory adjacent to Israel.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they enjoy the protection of the State of Palestine _(alla 2012)_ or have participated in the Arab Palestinian elections of 2006.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they represent a threat to national security, public order, public health, or a danger to the other rights recognized in the*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they have been involved in Any propaganda effort for war, or the advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence prohibited by law (IAW CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Have you ever seen any of the Palestinian refugee camps since 1950?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I am not sure what difference the "magnitude" _(the extent observers the number)_ has to do with the impact on and decision. Whether it is Zero, a hundred thousand, or in the millions. The numbers should not alter or influence the decisions to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> There are requirement issues and criteria that need to be agreed upon.
> 
> For nearly three-quarters of a century, the Arab Palestinians in the territories adjacent to Israel have considered themselves some sort of special case.  And they have determined that they can alter the definition of a "Refugee" that is much, much broader than humanity has considered and defined a "Refugees" in the past _(and unto the present day)_.
> 
> In my opinion, there are a couple of key points that will significantly reduce the numbers covered for services under CERI (Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions).  A Palestinian Refugee is defined by CERI as:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugee* Any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict, and descendants of such persons, including legally adopted children, through the male line. UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria are formulated for the Agency’s operational purposes. There are persons who are registered by host countries/authorities as Palestine refugees or Palestinian refugees but who are not registered as Palestine Refugees in the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) Registration System and who may or may not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria.​​Source:  United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) • *Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The purpose of this definition to  set  out  for  the  guidance  of UNRWA  staff,  the  persons  and categories   of   persons   who   are eligible   to   register   to   receive UNRWA  services  and  those  who are   eligible   to   receive   services without being registered; _​
> 
> "The 1951 Convention consolidates previous international instruments relating to refugees and provides the most comprehensive codification of the rights of refugees at the international level. In contrast to earlier international refugee instruments, which applied to specific groups of refugees, the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 1​For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall apply to any person who:​​(1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization; Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfill the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;​​(2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.​​Source:  United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), *United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_​​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the descendants of Refugee, including legally adopted children, are eligible for services under CERI, they should not be considered a Refugee if they have never lived anywhere other than a territory adjacent to Israel.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they enjoy the protection of the State of Palestine _(alla 2012)_ or have participated in the Arab Palestinian elections of 2006.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they represent a threat to national security, public order, public health, or a danger to the other rights recognized in the*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they have been involved in Any propaganda effort for war, or the advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence prohibited by law (IAW CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> _*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_


Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, then when was Palestine created as a state?? Exactly what day, month and year??
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I am not sure what difference the "magnitude" _(the extent observers the number)_ has to do with the impact on and decision. Whether it is Zero, a hundred thousand, or in the millions. The numbers should not alter or influence the decisions to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> There are requirement issues and criteria that need to be agreed upon.
> 
> For nearly three-quarters of a century, the Arab Palestinians in the territories adjacent to Israel have considered themselves some sort of special case.  And they have determined that they can alter the definition of a "Refugee" that is much, much broader than humanity has considered and defined a "Refugees" in the past _(and unto the present day)_.
> 
> In my opinion, there are a couple of key points that will significantly reduce the numbers covered for services under CERI (Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions).  A Palestinian Refugee is defined by CERI as:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugee* Any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict, and descendants of such persons, including legally adopted children, through the male line. UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria are formulated for the Agency’s operational purposes. There are persons who are registered by host countries/authorities as Palestine refugees or Palestinian refugees but who are not registered as Palestine Refugees in the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) Registration System and who may or may not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria.​​Source:  United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) • *Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The purpose of this definition to  set  out  for  the  guidance  of UNRWA  staff,  the  persons  and categories   of   persons   who   are eligible   to   register   to   receive UNRWA  services  and  those  who are   eligible   to   receive   services without being registered; _​
> 
> "The 1951 Convention consolidates previous international instruments relating to refugees and provides the most comprehensive codification of the rights of refugees at the international level. In contrast to earlier international refugee instruments, which applied to specific groups of refugees, the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 1​For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall apply to any person who:​​(1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization; Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfill the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;​​(2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.​​Source:  United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), *United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_​​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the descendants of Refugee, including legally adopted children, are eligible for services under CERI, they should not be considered a Refugee if they have never lived anywhere other than a territory adjacent to Israel.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they enjoy the protection of the State of Palestine _(alla 2012)_ or have participated in the Arab Palestinian elections of 2006.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they represent a threat to national security, public order, public health, or a danger to the other rights recognized in the*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they have been involved in Any propaganda effort for war, or the advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence prohibited by law (IAW CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes.
Click to expand...


*Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes. *

When your old landlord dies, why do you suddenly own your old apartment?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...

The part where you believe that an opinion you found on wiki invented your imagined Pally state is confusing.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I am not sure what difference the "magnitude" _(the extent observers the number)_ has to do with the impact on and decision. Whether it is Zero, a hundred thousand, or in the millions. The numbers should not alter or influence the decisions to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> There are requirement issues and criteria that need to be agreed upon.
> 
> For nearly three-quarters of a century, the Arab Palestinians in the territories adjacent to Israel have considered themselves some sort of special case.  And they have determined that they can alter the definition of a "Refugee" that is much, much broader than humanity has considered and defined a "Refugees" in the past _(and unto the present day)_.
> 
> In my opinion, there are a couple of key points that will significantly reduce the numbers covered for services under CERI (Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions).  A Palestinian Refugee is defined by CERI as:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugee* Any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict, and descendants of such persons, including legally adopted children, through the male line. UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria are formulated for the Agency’s operational purposes. There are persons who are registered by host countries/authorities as Palestine refugees or Palestinian refugees but who are not registered as Palestine Refugees in the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) Registration System and who may or may not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria.​​Source:  United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) • *Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The purpose of this definition to  set  out  for  the  guidance  of UNRWA  staff,  the  persons  and categories   of   persons   who   are eligible   to   register   to   receive UNRWA  services  and  those  who are   eligible   to   receive   services without being registered; _​
> 
> "The 1951 Convention consolidates previous international instruments relating to refugees and provides the most comprehensive codification of the rights of refugees at the international level. In contrast to earlier international refugee instruments, which applied to specific groups of refugees, the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 1​For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall apply to any person who:​​(1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization; Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfill the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;​​(2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.​​Source:  United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), *United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_​​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the descendants of Refugee, including legally adopted children, are eligible for services under CERI, they should not be considered a Refugee if they have never lived anywhere other than a territory adjacent to Israel.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they enjoy the protection of the State of Palestine _(alla 2012)_ or have participated in the Arab Palestinian elections of 2006.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they represent a threat to national security, public order, public health, or a danger to the other rights recognized in the*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they have been involved in Any propaganda effort for war, or the advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence prohibited by law (IAW CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes. *
> 
> When your old landlord dies, why do you suddenly own your old apartment?
Click to expand...


Palestine has been  province of Syria since Herodotus the Greek Historian circa 500 BC. What do you mean old landlord? The Arabs fought with the British to chase the Turks out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I am not sure what difference the "magnitude" _(the extent observers the number)_ has to do with the impact on and decision. Whether it is Zero, a hundred thousand, or in the millions. The numbers should not alter or influence the decisions to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign Our Petition: Help Reveal the True Number of Palestinian Refugees | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, For decades, Israel has been blamed for the failure of peacemaking attempts while Palestinian intransigence has been widely ignored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> There are requirement issues and criteria that need to be agreed upon.
> 
> For nearly three-quarters of a century, the Arab Palestinians in the territories adjacent to Israel have considered themselves some sort of special case.  And they have determined that they can alter the definition of a "Refugee" that is much, much broader than humanity has considered and defined a "Refugees" in the past _(and unto the present day)_.
> 
> In my opinion, there are a couple of key points that will significantly reduce the numbers covered for services under CERI (Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions).  A Palestinian Refugee is defined by CERI as:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine Refugee* Any person whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict, and descendants of such persons, including legally adopted children, through the male line. UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria are formulated for the Agency’s operational purposes. There are persons who are registered by host countries/authorities as Palestine refugees or Palestinian refugees but who are not registered as Palestine Refugees in the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) Registration System and who may or may not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria.​​Source:  United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine (UNISPAL) • *Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instructions*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The purpose of this definition to  set  out  for  the  guidance  of UNRWA  staff,  the  persons  and categories   of   persons   who   are eligible   to   register   to   receive UNRWA  services  and  those  who are   eligible   to   receive   services without being registered; _​
> 
> "The 1951 Convention consolidates previous international instruments relating to refugees and provides the most comprehensive codification of the rights of refugees at the international level. In contrast to earlier international refugee instruments, which applied to specific groups of refugees, the 1951 Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article1.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Article 1​For the purposes of the present Convention, the term “refugee” shall apply to any person who:​​(1)  Has been considered a refugee under the Arrangements of 12 May 1926 and 30 June 1928 or under the Conventions of 28 October 1933 and 10 February 1938, the Protocol of 14 September 1939 or the Constitution of the International Refugee Organization; Decisions of non-eligibility taken by the International Refugee Organization during the period of its activities shall not prevent the status of refugee being accorded to persons who fulfill the conditions of paragraph 2 of this section;​​(2)  As a result of events occurring before 1 January 1951 and owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  In the case of a person who has more than one nationality, the term “the country of his nationality” shall mean each of the countries of which he is a national, and a person shall not be deemed to be lacking the protection of the country of his nationality if, without any valid reason based on well-founded fear, he has not availed himself of the protection of one of the countries of which he is a national.​​Source:  United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), *United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_​​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the descendants of Refugee, including legally adopted children, are eligible for services under CERI, they should not be considered a Refugee if they have never lived anywhere other than a territory adjacent to Israel.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they enjoy the protection of the State of Palestine _(alla 2012)_ or have participated in the Arab Palestinian elections of 2006.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they represent a threat to national security, public order, public health, or a danger to the other rights recognized in the*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*.
> 
> While the Arab Palestinians considered themselves Refugees, they are NOT Refugees if they have been involved in Any propaganda effort for war, or the advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence prohibited by law (IAW CCPR).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes. *
> 
> When your old landlord dies, why do you suddenly own your old apartment?
Click to expand...

What if they own the house?


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The part where you believe that an opinion you found on wiki invented your imagined Pally state is confusing.
Click to expand...


For most of its history Palestine has been under foreign rule.. Whether Egyptian, Assyrian, Greek, Roman, Turk, Arab or British.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The part where you believe that an opinion you found on wiki invented your imagined Pally state is confusing.
Click to expand...

You can find the same information from many places. It is just easier to find in Wiki.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pals have co-opted Jesus as a Pally martyr.  He’s due a street named in his honor. 




*PA PM insults Christianity by comparing Jesus to murderers and suicide bombers*









						PA PM insults Christianity by comparing Jesus to murderers and suicide bombers | PMW Analysis
					

In a speech at a Christmas dinner, the PA’s Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh called Jesus a "Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter" who taught them "Martyrdom-death."




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus  | Jan 3, 2021
In a speech at a Christmas dinner, the PA’s Prime Minister, Muhammad Shtayyeh, repeated the PA’s historically false narrative, turning Jesus into a “Palestinian.” He further insulted Christianity saying that Jesus was “the first Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter” and the one who taught Palestinians “Martyrdom-death”:


> *PA Prime Minister Shtayyeh:* “Our lord *Jesus*, peace be upon him – *the first Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter from whom we learned Martyrdom-death*, and who paid for his mission with his life.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 28, 2020]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> toastman said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The part where you believe that an opinion you found on wiki invented your imagined Pally state is confusing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can find the same information from many places. It is just easier to find in Wiki.
Click to expand...

False.

Nothing in the wiki article supports your desperation.


----------



## Hollie

The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, then when was Palestine created as a state?? Exactly what day, month and year??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...

LOL. Says the one who says Palestine has international borders.. 
But why didn’t you answer my question? Let’s try again.. What day, month and Year did Palestine become a state? I find information on google about the creation of ANY country in world, yet nothing on Palestine. Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
So instead of trying to insult me, why don’t you answer the question ?


----------



## toastman

All one has to do is look but at the last several dozen posts and you will see that Tinmore has not answered or backed up any of his claims. 
I have truly never seen someone who knows so little about this conflict, yet posts so much jibberish


----------



## Hollie

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, then when was Palestine created as a state?? Exactly what day, month and year??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Says the one who says Palestine has international borders..
> But why didn’t you answer my question? Let’s try again.. What day, month and Year did Palestine become a state? I find information on google about the creation of ANY country in world, yet nothing on Palestine. Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> So instead of trying to insult me, why don’t you answer the question ?
Click to expand...

I did a search using the phrase “history of the country of Palestine” and as you might except, no results. That’s precisely what one might expect for a “country” that has never existed.... except in some alternate reality.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> It seems the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pals have co-opted Jesus as a Pally martyr.  He’s due a street named in his honor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA PM insults Christianity by comparing Jesus to murderers and suicide bombers*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA PM insults Christianity by comparing Jesus to murderers and suicide bombers | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> In a speech at a Christmas dinner, the PA’s Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh called Jesus a "Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter" who taught them "Martyrdom-death."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itamar Marcus  | Jan 3, 2021
> In a speech at a Christmas dinner, the PA’s Prime Minister, Muhammad Shtayyeh, repeated the PA’s historically false narrative, turning Jesus into a “Palestinian.” He further insulted Christianity saying that Jesus was “the first Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter” and the one who taught Palestinians “Martyrdom-death”:
> 
> 
> 
> *PA Prime Minister Shtayyeh:* “Our lord *Jesus*, peace be upon him – *the first Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter from whom we learned Martyrdom-death*, and who paid for his mission with his life.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 28, 2020]
Click to expand...


Well, that's pretty mean-spirited. Palestinians are Arabs.. even the Arab Jews and Christians are Palestinians. Some are descended from Jews and Crusaders... and they have been there forever.


----------



## surada

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, then when was Palestine created as a state?? Exactly what day, month and year??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Says the one who says Palestine has international borders..
> But why didn’t you answer my question? Let’s try again.. What day, month and Year did Palestine become a state? I find information on google about the creation of ANY country in world, yet nothing on Palestine. Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> So instead of trying to insult me, why don’t you answer the question ?
Click to expand...


Israel was never a state either. It was briefly a city state in the Syrian province of Palestine... and they didn't immigrate from Europe or Russia.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Sixties Fan,  et al,

*BLUF*: Again you are making a claim forming careless reasoning that comes to a conclusion without the evidence to support it.



RoccoR said:


> _*NOTE:*_ _"The emphasis of this definition is on the protection of persons from political or other forms of persecution. A refugee, according to the Convention, is someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion."_





P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians get shot if they try to return to their homes.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure of any particular incident you might be using as an example.

Paragraph 11 of UN A/RES/194 III is often used as the basis for the claim by Hostile Arab Palestinians for the "Right of Return."  Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it is merely a snapshot in time on how the pro-Palestinian alliance was able to voice its opinion.  But, A/RES/194 (III) is not law and never went into force.  

Even if it had some basis of enforcement, what the Resolution says is:  "_Resolves_ that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date." Resolution 194 (III) was passed on 11 December 1948.  However, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made their pledge that:  "The Arabs of Palestine *made a solemn declaration* before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will *never submit or yield *to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them **(the HoAP)** out — man, woman and child."  *(_AHC THREAT A/AC.21/10 of 16 February 1948_)

This 70-year-old pledge is just as threatening today as it was in 1948 when it was first formally made.  This is just as true today → when General Principles and Policies of Hamas (holding the majority of seats in the Arab Palestinian Legislature), formally announced that:  Hamas does not recognize the authority of the United Nations, its institutions, or its resolutions, including Resolution 181 on partitioning the Land of Israel/Palestine.  *Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws.* At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people.   

The HoAP have no intention of living at peace with their neighbors.  
*PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are settlers; Israel's demise is certain*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik |  Dec 17, 2020 

Israel will take such steps as they feel is necessary to protect national security, public order, public health or morals, or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR).





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> What do you mean old landlord?



Just because you rent a house doesn't mean you suddenly own it 
when something happens to the landlord.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> What if they own the house?



What about the Ottoman Empire?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Israel was never a state either.



Never? Link?


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was never a state either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never? Link?
Click to expand...


I'll have to do some digging to find a concise article for you.. In the meantime, you may find this very interesting. Most everything is exaggerated in the Koran as well. There were no huge  armies.. They couldn't feed them.









						Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City
					

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.




					www.biblicalarchaeology.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed


What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant. 

Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and the Palestinian nationality was set by Palestine's international boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why no Palestinians signed the armistice agreements, only Israelis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So... I was hoping you would give us a list of those ''new states'' you have invented.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Those ''new states'' would likely have, you know, names to help identify them.
> 
> Anything yet on those 'new states'?
> 
> Link?
> 
> _Hands on hips... tapping foot on the floor.._.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted before. Sorry you missed it.
> ---------------
> A disagreement regarding the legal status and the portion of the annuities to be paid by the "A" mandates was settled when an Arbitrator ruled that *some of the mandates contained more than one State:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difficulty arises here how one is to regard the Asiatic countries under the British and French mandates. *Iraq* is a Kingdom in regard to which Great Britain has undertaken responsibilities equivalent to those of a Mandatory Power. Under the British mandate, *Palestine *and *Transjordan *have each an entirely separate organization. We are, therefore, in the presence of *three States* sufficiently separate to be considered as distinct Parties. France has received a single mandate from the Council of the League of Nations, but in the countries subject to that mandate, one can distinguish *two distinct States: Syria and the Lebanon,* each State possessing its own constitution and a nationality clearly different from the other.[25]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------
> *Five new states: Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan, Syria, and Lebanon.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this post have to do with anything. You didn’t even come close to answering hey question. Geez, what - surprise: Tinmore gets asked to back up his post, and doesn’t once again ! Hahaha
> Keep on dancing Tinmore !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Iraq, Palestine, and Transjordan under Britain. Syria and Lebanon under France. Five new states.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, then when was Palestine created as a state?? Exactly what day, month and year??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Says the one who says Palestine has international borders..
> But why didn’t you answer my question? Let’s try again.. What day, month and Year did Palestine become a state? I find information on google about the creation of ANY country in world, yet nothing on Palestine. Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> So instead of trying to insult me, why don’t you answer the question ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did a search using the phrase “history of the country of Palestine” and as you might except, no results. That’s precisely what one might expect for a “country” that has never existed.... except in some alternate reality.
Click to expand...


Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either. They were principalities or Baronies, Did you never study Modern European History?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.



Until when?


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
Click to expand...


The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.

*Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*









						When Did Germany Become a Country?
					

Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.




					www.worldatlas.com
				



.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
Click to expand...

Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.

When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.

We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.






						Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
					

The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.




					www.haaretz.com
				




Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.

Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


When did Palestine become a country?


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
Click to expand...


The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.

Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Palestine become a country?
Click to expand...


Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Palestine become a country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.
Click to expand...


*Palestine was never a country.. *

Good to know.  So why are we worried about a nationality invented by that gay Egyptian terrorist?


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Palestine become a country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine was never a country.. *
> 
> Good to know.  So why are we worried about a nationality invented by that gay Egyptian terrorist?
Click to expand...


They were called Palestinians when I was a child... long before arafat.. circa 1950.. In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.
> 
> Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.
Click to expand...

I think it's important to understand the reasons for the Arabs-Moslems fleeing to Lebanon in 1948 and 1967. Wars of aggression by the Arab armies in both instances resulted in the need to escape the land / air war. The Arabs-Moslems seem to demand a 'do-over' after their failed wars of aggression with a presumption that losing a war carries no consequences. 

As to Jewish immigrants looting refugee camps, I have no information on that but would not condone those actions if they took place.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.
> 
> Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's important to understand the reasons for the Arabs-Moslems fleeing to Lebanon in 1948 and 1967. Wars of aggression by the Arab armies in both instances resulted in the need to escape the land / air war. The Arabs-Moslems seem to demand a 'do-over' after their failed wars of aggression with a presumption that losing a war carries no consequences.
> 
> As to Jewish immigrants looting refugee camps, I have no information on that but would not condone those actions if they took place.
Click to expand...


The Jewish immigrants began destroying Arab villages in late 1947 about the same time they firebombed the refinery in Haifa... I think November.. Israel has whole propaganda package for people like you.


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.


Have you met (cybernetically), P F Tinmore?


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.
> 
> Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's important to understand the reasons for the Arabs-Moslems fleeing to Lebanon in 1948 and 1967. Wars of aggression by the Arab armies in both instances resulted in the need to escape the land / air war. The Arabs-Moslems seem to demand a 'do-over' after their failed wars of aggression with a presumption that losing a war carries no consequences.
> 
> As to Jewish immigrants looting refugee camps, I have no information on that but would not condone those actions if they took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish immigrants began destroying Arab villages in late 1947 about the same time they firebombed the refinery in Haifa... I think November.. Israel has whole propaganda package for people like you.
Click to expand...

There were attacks by Jews against Arabs-Moslems as well as Arab-Moslem attacks aimed at Jews during to timeframe you referenced and before / after.

It's not propaganda to recognize the truth and understand neither group is guiltless.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Palestine become a country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine was never a country.. *
> 
> Good to know.  So why are we worried about a nationality invented by that gay Egyptian terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians when I was a child... long before arafat.. circa 1950.. In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...
Click to expand...


*They were called Palestinians when I was a child.. *

You just admitted, it was never a country.

*In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...*

Which church in Saudi Arabia?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)


Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The Jewish immigrants began destroying Arab villages in late 1947



That's a relief.....they weren't destroying Palestinian villages.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.



Are they different than the borders Israel has with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
Click to expand...

The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.

Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.
> 
> Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's important to understand the reasons for the Arabs-Moslems fleeing to Lebanon in 1948 and 1967. Wars of aggression by the Arab armies in both instances resulted in the need to escape the land / air war. The Arabs-Moslems seem to demand a 'do-over' after their failed wars of aggression with a presumption that losing a war carries no consequences.
> 
> As to Jewish immigrants looting refugee camps, I have no information on that but would not condone those actions if they took place.
Click to expand...

When did the Palestinians lose a war?

Links?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.
> 
> Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's important to understand the reasons for the Arabs-Moslems fleeing to Lebanon in 1948 and 1967. Wars of aggression by the Arab armies in both instances resulted in the need to escape the land / air war. The Arabs-Moslems seem to demand a 'do-over' after their failed wars of aggression with a presumption that losing a war carries no consequences.
> 
> As to Jewish immigrants looting refugee camps, I have no information on that but would not condone those actions if they took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did the Palestinians lose a war?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


When did they win a war?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demographics of Lebanon were turned upside down in 1948 and again in 1967 by all the Palestinians driven out of Palestine. I remember the refugee camps outside of Beirut in 1951-1953-4.. The Jewish immigrants looted and leveled over 300 arab villages from 1947-1949.. and they  destroyed another 65 arab villages in the Golan Heights in 1967.
> 
> Before  statehood. the Jews had bought 6% of the land in Palestine. The rest they took.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's important to understand the reasons for the Arabs-Moslems fleeing to Lebanon in 1948 and 1967. Wars of aggression by the Arab armies in both instances resulted in the need to escape the land / air war. The Arabs-Moslems seem to demand a 'do-over' after their failed wars of aggression with a presumption that losing a war carries no consequences.
> 
> As to Jewish immigrants looting refugee camps, I have no information on that but would not condone those actions if they took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did the Palestinians lose a war?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did they win a war?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
Click to expand...


*Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *

Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
Click to expand...

Please stop with that nonsense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
Click to expand...

Yes. Palestinians own land.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
Click to expand...


Which land? Be specific.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
Click to expand...

In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which land? Be specific.
Click to expand...

*Khaled Al Sabawi - TABO: Every Palestinian Needs a Title | TEDx Talk – Palestine*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Palestine become a country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine was never a country.. *
> 
> Good to know.  So why are we worried about a nationality invented by that gay Egyptian terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians when I was a child... long before arafat.. circa 1950.. In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They were called Palestinians when I was a child.. *
> 
> You just admitted, it was never a country.
> 
> *In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...*
> 
> Which church in Saudi Arabia?
Click to expand...


 Catholic Mass, Non-denominational Protestant or Episcopalian services.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In response to Suha Arafat's controversial interview with an Israeli newspaper, where she said that Israel didn't kill Yasir Arafat and that the second intifada was a mistake, the Fatah movement issued a statement to Suha. They said that Arafat was indeed poisoned by Israel.

Suha herself all but accused Israel of poisoning Arafat back in 2013 and certainly did not claim it was a fellow Palestinian who killed him, as she now say. 

Beyond that, they insult Suha for running to Paris when the second intifada broke out, implying that she is a coward.

Most tellingly, they defend the terror spree that was the second intifada, which killed a thousand Israelis with bus bombings and suicide terror - and resulted in the deaths of many more Palestinians. This is, to Fatah, a glorious episode of honor.

Does Fatah think that this message will endear them to the West that they demand money from?

Here is the press release from Fatah. 

(full article online)









						Fatah tells Suha Arafat to shut up, says it is proud of its terrorism in the second intifada
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
Click to expand...


Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
Click to expand...

I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
Click to expand...


I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.

July 1920






						Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
					

Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online



					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Hollie

Ah, good times. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (sometimes delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.














						Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
					

Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.



Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
Click to expand...

I’m not clear on any land maps in the Bible. I do know that the loosely defined land area you call “Palestine” existed as a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire for some 800 years. The Ottoman Turks did not recognize a unique geographic area called “Palestine”.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on any land maps in the Bible. I do know that the loosely defined land area you call “Palestine” existed as a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire for some 800 years. The Ottoman Turks did not recognize a unique geographic area called “Palestine”.
Click to expand...


Palestine has been on maps as a province of Syria since 500 BC.


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
Click to expand...

Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
Click to expand...


Israel has admited it and regrets what


Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
Click to expand...




*Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*








						Hamas Israel’s own creation
					

From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				



In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
*How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
		

...
*Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on any land maps in the Bible. I do know that the loosely defined land area you call “Palestine” existed as a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire for some 800 years. The Ottoman Turks did not recognize a unique geographic area called “Palestine”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine has been on maps as a province of Syria since 500 BC.
Click to expand...

There was no such independent administrative area recognized under Ottoman rule. I agree there were variously, loosely defined definitions of a geographic area called “Palestine” at various times in history.


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on any land maps in the Bible. I do know that the loosely defined land area you call “Palestine” existed as a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire for some 800 years. The Ottoman Turks did not recognize a unique geographic area called “Palestine”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine has been on maps as a province of Syria since 500 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no such independent administrative area recognized under Ottoman rule. I agree there were variously, loosely defined definitions of a geographic area called “Palestine” at various times in history.
Click to expand...


*Administrative divisions of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia*








						Administrative divisions of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



The *administrative* divisions of the *Ottoman* Empire were *administrative* divisions of the state organisation of the *Ottoman* Empire.Outside this system were various types of vassal and tributary states.. The *Ottoman* Empire was first subdivided into provinces, in the sense of fixed territorial units with governors appointed by the sultan, in the late 14th century.


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
Click to expand...

I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.

I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”


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## surada

Ottoman Territorial Reorganization, 1840-1917
					

Highlight - Preliminary Sketches of Mandate Palestine's Boundaries - After the withdrawal of Muhammad Ali   ’s army from the Syrian territory back to Egypt    at the end of 1840, the Ottomans embarked on a series of...



					www.paljourneys.org


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## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
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> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
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> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
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> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
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> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
Click to expand...


Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.


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## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
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> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
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> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
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> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
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> www.haaretz.com
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> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
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> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
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> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
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> 
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> www.theatlantic.com
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> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on any land maps in the Bible. I do know that the loosely defined land area you call “Palestine” existed as a Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire for some 800 years. The Ottoman Turks did not recognize a unique geographic area called “Palestine”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine has been on maps as a province of Syria since 500 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no such independent administrative area recognized under Ottoman rule. I agree there were variously, loosely defined definitions of a geographic area called “Palestine” at various times in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Administrative divisions of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia*
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> Administrative divisions of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> 
> The *administrative* divisions of the *Ottoman* Empire were *administrative* divisions of the state organisation of the *Ottoman* Empire.Outside this system were various types of vassal and tributary states.. The *Ottoman* Empire was first subdivided into provinces, in the sense of fixed territorial units with governors appointed by the sultan, in the late 14th century.
Click to expand...

Yes. No Ottoman administrative area called “Palestine”.


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## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
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> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
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> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
Click to expand...

The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?


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## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?
Click to expand...


All the arab states signed on for it. ariel Sharon mocked it. Israel just wants more and more land.


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## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the arab states signed on for it. ariel Sharon mocked it. Israel just wants more and more land.
Click to expand...

So we can agree it was never a binding agreement?


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the arab states signed on for it. ariel Sharon mocked it. Israel just wants more and more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So we can agree it was never a binding agreement?
Click to expand...


Yes, the Israelis rejected it.






						Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
					

Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online



					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the arab states signed on for it. ariel Sharon mocked it. Israel just wants more and more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So we can agree it was never a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the Israelis rejected it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
Click to expand...

I’m not surprised. The Arab plan was little more than a paragraph outlining a list of demands. Were the Israelis expected to trust in the good will and benevolence of Hamas and Arab nations sworn to Israel’s destruction?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ et al,

*BLUF*: Don't confuse "land ownership" _(a personal property concept) _with that of a "state or country" _(a territorial sovereignty concept)_.  They are nowhere near equivalent and often lead to confusion.  I own my house and the property it sits on.  My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State.  BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.  

*NOTE:* _Just as a sidebar, the City I live in has an "permanent easement" at the rear of my house (the alleyway).  And there are several public utility easements as well.  None of this represents ownership by federal, state or local government.  Yet, my property has a direct relationship with these agency levels of government._   Some of you are saying about now, that you already know all this.  Yet in the discussion I see some drawing a direct correlation between the territorial sovereignty and personal property, as if Arab ownership plays some part in determining sovereignty.  ​
*(HYPOTHETICAL)*

If the United States sells the State of Ohio to Canada, and Ohio became a part of the Province of Ottowa, I would still own my land.  My nationality would change, and the territorial sovereignty would change.  I would also share a common sovereign in the person of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.  But none of that effects personal property ownership.

*(COMMENT)*

All this history is part of a great discussion and a learning tool for me.  But → no matter what is true of these various claims and what is untrue in these various claims does not in any way affect the ground truth of today's situation concerning Israel and the status of the adjacent territory _(West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza Strip)_.  

◈  I think that no matter what happens, the Gaza Strip will not become a part of Israel.​◈  I think that no matter what happens, the internal subdivisions of Jerusalem may alter somewhat.​◈  I think that no matter what happens, the Capitol of Israel will remain in the Western portion of Jerusalem (Government Plaza).​◈  I think that significant changes, for the betterment of the people of the West Bank, will not happen until the Arab Palestinians themselves change their paradigm.  They have to become reliant on peaceful negotiations offered in good faith.​◈  I think that no matter what happens, the attitude between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians will take several generations to change do to the indoctrination of the children, in part → facilitated by the UNRWA.​
Just My Thoughts.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Don't confuse "land ownership" _(a personal property concept) _with that of a "state or country" _(a territorial sovereignty concept)_.  They are nowhere near equivalent and often lead to confusion.  I own my house and the property it sits on.  My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State.  BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.
> 
> *NOTE:* _Just as a sidebar, the City I live in has an "permanent easement" at the rear of my house (the alleyway).  And there are several public utility easements as well.  None of this represents ownership by federal, state or local government.  Yet, my property has a direct relationship with these agency levels of government._   Some of you are saying about now, that you already know all this.  Yet in the discussion I see some drawing a direct correlation between the territorial sovereignty and personal property, as if Arab ownership plays some part in determining sovereignty.  ​
> *(HYPOTHETICAL)*
> 
> If the United States sells the State of Ohio to Canada, and Ohio became a part of the Province of Ottowa, I would still own my land.  My nationality would change, and the territorial sovereignty would change.  I would also share a common sovereign in the person of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.  But none of that effects personal property ownership.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All this history is part of a great discussion and a learning tool for me.  But → no matter what is true of these various claims and what is untrue in these various claims does not in any way affect the ground truth of today's situation concerning Israel and the status of the adjacent territory _(West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza Strip)_.
> 
> ◈  I think that no matter what happens, the Gaza Strip will not become a part of Israel.​◈  I think that no matter what happens, the internal subdivisions of Jerusalem may alter somewhat.​◈  I think that no matter what happens, the Capitol of Israel will remain in the Western portion of Jerusalem (Government Plaza).​◈  I think that significant changes, for the betterment of the people of the West Bank, will not happen until the Arab Palestinians themselves change their paradigm.  They have to become reliant on peaceful negotiations offered in good faith.​◈  I think that no matter what happens, the attitude between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians will take several generations to change do to the indoctrination of the children, in part → facilitated by the UNRWA.​
> Just My Thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


I think you reinforced an important concept. A geographic area given a name, even when supporting a population does not designate “statehood” as we describe sovereign nations.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  surada, et al,


surada said:


> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com


*(QUESTION)*

What stamps?

What money?





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the arab states signed on for it. ariel Sharon mocked it. Israel just wants more and more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So we can agree it was never a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the Israelis rejected it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not surprised. The Arab plan was little more than a paragraph outlining a list of demands. Were the Israelis expected to trust in the good will and benevolence of Hamas and Arab nations sworn to Israel’s destruction?
Click to expand...


It was a huge capitulation by the arabs. It guaranteed Israel's  security, trade, recognition and diplomatic relations.

King abdullah also ordered a study to reopen Tapline with a spur to Haifa to provide cheap gas to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I own my house and the property it sits on. My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State. BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.


Good point. Private ownership of land does not remove that land from the country. It is said that Jews bought land in Palestine. That did not remove that land from Palestine. It was still Palestinian land.


----------



## surada

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I own my house and the property it sits on. My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State. BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Private ownership of land does not remove that land from the country. It is said that Jews bought land in Palestine. That did not remove that land from Palestine. It was still Palestinian land.
Click to expand...


The Jewish immigrants has bought only 6% of the land by 1948.


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> surada said:
> 
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> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has admited it and regrets what
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fond memories. The Islamic gee-had runs on cash (delivered in suitcases). Remarkable how 1,400 years of religiously based hate and acrimony can temporarily vanish with delivery of suitcases full of cash.View attachment 437109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahar Recalls His First Meeting With Qasem Soleimani: He Gave Me $22 Million In Suitcases
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar shared a memory from his first meeting with Qasem Soleimani, on Al-Alam TV (Iran) on December 27, 2020. He said that following his first meeting with IRGC Qods Force commander Soleimani, Al-Zahar, who was the Hamas Foreign Minister at the time, and his companions were supplied with suitcases filled with 22 million dollars in cash as aid, to take back on the plane. He said that each suitcase weighed 40 kg.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas didn't exist before the 1980s and  was founded by Israel..  Sabeel tried to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is the child gee-had group of the Muslim Brotherhood. To suggest that Israel founded Hamas is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Israel's own creation | Shlomo Alegra | The Blogs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Israel’s own creation
> 
> 
> From the blog of Shlomo Alegra at The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blogs.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same year of 1987 during the Intifada* Hamas* was founded and even staged its first attack on Israel in 1988, abducting and killing two IDF soldiers. All the sudden Israel no longer saw Hamas...
> *How Israel helped create Hamas - The Washington Post*
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/
> 
> 
> ...
> *Hamas* launched in* 1988* in* Gaza* at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have read similar articles before. I think what is hoped to be represented is that Israel actively participated, aided and abetted the formation of Hamas.
> 
> I think that is a manipulation of the events as your link defines, “with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 guaranteeing Israel's security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hamas charter contradicts that. When did the Saudi Peace Initiative become a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the arab states signed on for it. ariel Sharon mocked it. Israel just wants more and more land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So we can agree it was never a binding agreement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the Israelis rejected it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not surprised. The Arab plan was little more than a paragraph outlining a list of demands. Were the Israelis expected to trust in the good will and benevolence of Hamas and Arab nations sworn to Israel’s destruction?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a huge capitulation by the arabs. It guaranteed Israel's  security, trade, recognition and diplomatic relations.
> 
> King abdullah also ordered a study to reopen Tapline with a spur to Haifa to provide cheap gas to Israel.
Click to expand...

I’m not so sure I would characterize the March 27, 2002 Pally attack as a capitulation. Additionally, the Saudi proposal included the elements of UN resolution 194. As you probably know, resolution 194 included verbiage about “..lrefugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours”. The Hamas Charter was never rescinded so there was no real expectation that Hamas would honor any Saudi agreement.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I own my house and the property it sits on. My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State. BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Private ownership of land does not remove that land from the country. It is said that Jews bought land in Palestine. That did not remove that land from Palestine. It was still Palestinian land.
Click to expand...

False premise. There was never any “country of Pal’istan”. So there’s that.

When was there ever any “Pal’istanian land”. What, exactly, is Pal’istanian land?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> False premise. There was never any “country of Pal’istan”. So there’s that.


Link?

Or are you just blowing Israeli smoke out of your ass?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> When was there ever any “Pal’istanian land”. What, exactly, is Pal’istanian land?


That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> False premise. There was never any “country of Pal’istan”. So there’s that.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Or are you just blowing Israeli smoke out of your ass?
Click to expand...

I have no link to something that never existed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was there ever any “Pal’istanian land”. What, exactly, is Pal’istanian land?
> 
> 
> 
> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...

What international borders?

You realize of course your nonsense claims about an imagined “country of Pal’istan” have been debunked dozens of times.

link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> False premise. There was never any “country of Pal’istan”. So there’s that.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Or are you just blowing Israeli smoke out of your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no link to something that never existed.
Click to expand...

You say something.

I ask you to prove it.

You start dancing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was there ever any “Pal’istanian land”. What, exactly, is Pal’istanian land?
> 
> 
> 
> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international borders?
> 
> You realize of course your nonsense claims about an imagined “country of Pal’istan” have been debunked dozens of times.
> 
> link?
Click to expand...

The ones I posted many times.

You need to keep up.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  When you say → "Palestinian Land" → you are not saying anything special.



RoccoR said:


> I own my house and the property it sits on. My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State. BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.





P F Tinmore said:


> Good point. Private ownership of land does not remove that land from the country. It is said that Jews bought land in Palestine. That did not remove that land from Palestine. It was still Palestinian land.


*(COMMENT)*

I was born in Pittsburgh PA.  I am Appalachian by birth (Allegheny County, PA).  My family owns property in Pittsburgh [301,048 (2018)]




​But to say all that, doesn't change a thing.  Most people in *Pittsburgh (the Capital of Appalachia)* don't even realize they are Appalachian.  And when you ask someone in Pittsburgh where the Capital is, they will chuckle and say → Harrisburg _(the Capital of Pennsylvania)_.  WHY? *(RHETORICAL) * Because Appalachia is NOT a "state" by itself; it is a territory.  This just like the "New England" Territory *(Boston is the Capital of both Massachusetts and New England)*; but, it is not a "state" either. There are advantages to being Appalachian _(but let's not get into that)_.   (TRIVIA:  Guthrie is the *Capital of the Oklahoma Territory*.)

Palestine is NOT a "state_*!*_" →  At least NOT in the same sense as you use in your comment _(supra)_...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  When you say → "Palestinian Land" → you are not saying anything special.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I own my house and the property it sits on. My property is also located inside the sovereign territory of the United State. BUT, the US Government does not own my personal property.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Private ownership of land does not remove that land from the country. It is said that Jews bought land in Palestine. That did not remove that land from Palestine. It was still Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was born in Pittsburgh PA.  I am Appalachian by birth (Allegheny County, PA).  My family owns property in Pittsburgh [301,048 (2018)]
> 
> 
> View attachment 437142
> ​But to say all that, doesn't change a thing.  Most people in *Pittsburgh (the Capital of Appalachia)* don't even realize they are Appalachian.  And when you ask someone in Pittsburgh where the Capital is, they will chuckle and say → Harrisburg _(the Capital of Pennsylvania)_.  WHY? *(RHETORICAL) * Because Appalachia is NOT a "state" by itself; it is a territory.  This just like the "New England" Territory *(Boston is the Capital of both Massachusetts and New England)*; but, it is not a "state" either. There are advantages to being Appalachian _(but let's not get into that)_.   (TRIVIA:  Guthrie is the *Capital of the Oklahoma Territory*.)
> 
> Palestine is NOT a "state_*!*_" →  At least NOT in the same sense as you use in your comment _(supra)_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> e_*!*_" → At least NOT in the same sense as you use in your comment _(supra)_...


Where did you get that opinion?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> False premise. There was never any “country of Pal’istan”. So there’s that.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Or are you just blowing Israeli smoke out of your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no link to something that never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say something.
> 
> I ask you to prove it.
> 
> You start dancing.
Click to expand...

I have disproved your nonsense claim.

Prove I haven't. 

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was there ever any “Pal’istanian land”. What, exactly, is Pal’istanian land?
> 
> 
> 
> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international borders?
> 
> You realize of course your nonsense claims about an imagined “country of Pal’istan” have been debunked dozens of times.
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones I posted many times.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

You have never posted any links that support your claim to some imagined 'country of Pal'ustan'.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally terrorists are infuriated because President Trump stopped the Islamic terrorist fun-money allowance.




*Trump “cloned from the genes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Balfour”– op-ed in official PA daily*









						Trump “cloned from the genes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Balfour”– op-ed in official PA daily | PMW Analysis
					

Trump “suffers from multiple personality disorder, megalomania, and a racial superiority [complex]”




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 4, 2021

*Trump “suffers from multiple personality disorder, megalomania, and a racial superiority [complex]”*
*The White House = “Dubious place in which a global mafia gang dwells” = “The Black House”*
The decision of US President Trump to pardon the four American security contractors who in 2007 killed 14 Iraqis in Baghdad (details below), served a regular columnist for the official PA daily as spring board to smear President Trump. Muwaffaq Matar, who is also a member of the Revolutionary Council of Abbas’ Fatah Movement, wrote that Trump is “cloned from the genes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Balfour” and runs a “mafia gang” in what he termed “the Black House.” This alleged genetic heritage expresses itself in “multiple personality disorder, megalomania, and a racial superiority [complex]”:


> *“The White House during the term of [US] President [Donald] Trump has become a dubious place in which a global mafia gang dwells*, which views itself as being in a position of ruling the world…
> *The only explanation for the announcement issued by Trump’s Black House following his decision to pardon the perpetrators of the massacre [in Iraq in 2007]… is that this man not only suffers from multiple personality disorder, megalomania, and a racial superiority [complex], but rather he also constitutes a mix of racism and a bloody colonialist mentality, which is embodied inside a human entity cloned from the genes of [Adolf] Hitler, [Benito] Mussolini, and [former British Foreign Secretary Arthur] Balfour!”*
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 24, 2020]


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
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> surada said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> surada said:
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> surada said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and Italy didn't exist as states or countries either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until when?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea of countries and nations is relatively recent.
> 
> *Germany wasn't a country until 1871.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Did Germany Become a Country?
> 
> 
> Germany as we know it today technically dates back to the year 962 AD. However, the country's origin is more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Palestine become a country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.. It was a province of Syria from 500 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine was never a country.. *
> 
> Good to know.  So why are we worried about a nationality invented by that gay Egyptian terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were called Palestinians when I was a child... long before arafat.. circa 1950.. In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They were called Palestinians when I was a child.. *
> 
> You just admitted, it was never a country.
> 
> *In fact, there were 50,000 in Saudi Arabia and many of them went to our church...*
> 
> Which church in Saudi Arabia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Catholic Mass, Non-denominational Protestant or Episcopalian services.
Click to expand...


Which church? Name it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth Of Palestinian Arab Refugees Exposed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fruitcake. Why refugees leave is irrelevant.
> 
> Villagers attacked Israel while in their own villages.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why 'refugees' (I believe you mean pre-refugees or 'refugees to be named a later date' or 'refugees to be named after the Arab armies told the, 'shoo, so we can begin our Jew killing') is certainly relevant.
> 
> When you whine about 'their villages', it's important to be accurate and identify that land occupied by Arabs-Moslems was formerly Turkish controlled territory. The Turks released all rights and title to the British Mandatory.
> 
> We further know that majority landowners under the Ottoman Turks were absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> How do we know this? Well, the Turkish government released Ottoman land records.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.
> 
> Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman Empire had a land rights system. Those rights could be bought, sold, or inherited.
> 
> Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased. Does that mean they have no rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nobody in Israel owns any land. It is all leased.  *
> 
> Interesting. Does anyone in Palestine own any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Palestinians own land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the imaginary ‘country of Pally’land”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Palestine or the Levant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not clear on what you mean by “Palestine”. I have not been to either Gaza or the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. Back when they had their own stamps and currency.
> 
> July 1920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
> 
> 
> Atlantic Unbound: The Atlantic Monthly Magazine Online
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
Click to expand...


*I mean Palestine as in the maps in every Bible before 1948. *

My Bible doesn't have a map in it.

*Back when they had their own stamps and currency. *

What was their currency? Exchange rate? Who was in charge of their central bank?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.



Any agreements signed with their neighbors solidifying those borders?

Any agreements signed with Israel solidifying those borders?

Or is this your Alzheimer's acting up again?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any agreements signed with their neighbors solidifying those borders?
> 
> Any agreements signed with Israel solidifying those borders?
> 
> Or is this your Alzheimer's acting up again?
Click to expand...

Palestine's international borders are undisputed. There is no need for a treaty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any agreements signed with their neighbors solidifying those borders?
> 
> Any agreements signed with Israel solidifying those borders?
> 
> Or is this your Alzheimer's acting up again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine's international borders are undisputed. There is no need for a treaty.
Click to expand...

“... because I say so!”

It would follow that nonexistent ‘country’ with nonexistent borders would have nonexistent treaties.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: You have seen the proof many, many, times.



P F Tinmore said:


> You say something.
> I ask you to prove it.  You start dancing.


 *(COMMENT)*

Memorandum "A"
*A/AC.21/UK/42 • 25 February 1948: LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE”*
2. After the 15th May, 1948,* Palestine will continue to be a legal entity* but it will still not be *a sovereign state* because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

The important question you have to answer is:  When did the Legal Entity become self-governing?

And I think you need to go back to school:
Endnote:
[LINK]
A *negative proof* _(known classically as appeal to ignorance)_ is a logical fallacy which takes the structure of: X is true because there is no proof that X is false. In our case your implication is that "Palestine is a Country" because there is no proof it was not a country. You need to stop asking for "*negative proof.*"
*Terminology - Argumentation fallacies: Impossible to prove the non-existing [closed]*







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's international borders are undisputed.



If they were, what was that gay Egyptian dude whining about for decades?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In our case your implication is that "Palestine is a Country" because there is no proof it was not a country. You need to stop asking for "*negative proof.*"


If you can't prove what you say, it is bullshit. If you can't prove it, don't say it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In our case your implication is that "Palestine is a Country" because there is no proof it was not a country. You need to stop asking for "*negative proof.*"
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't prove what you say, it is bullshit. If you can't prove it, don't say it.
Click to expand...


*If you can't prove what you say, it is bullshit.  *

I agree.

*Palestine's international borders are undisputed. *

Prove it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In our case your implication is that "Palestine is a Country" because there is no proof it was not a country. You need to stop asking for "*negative proof.*"
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't prove what you say, it is bullshit. If you can't prove it, don't say it.
Click to expand...


Comedy gold.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any agreements signed with their neighbors solidifying those borders?
> 
> Any agreements signed with Israel solidifying those borders?
> 
> Or is this your Alzheimer's acting up again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine's international borders are undisputed. There is no need for a treaty.
Click to expand...

Have you emailed Mahmoud Abbas about the international borders you claim exist? He seems to be under the impression that Pally’land is not a country. It’s one of those annoying inconveniences that countries usually have borders. Maybe an email from you would clear up all the confusion.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: You are so full of bull*!* Like you say all the time, "Prove it." (Positive Proof or reasonable argument.)



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's international borders are undisputed. There is no need for a treaty.


*(QUESTION)*

◈  At what time are you talking about?​◈  Which Palestine sovereignty are you speaking of?​◈  What Treaties?​





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ Which Palestine sovereignty are you speaking of?


You believe that foreign military force can negate Palestine's right to sovereignty.

So then, what is the meaning of non aggression?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I'm not sure that you even understand the twin concepts of:  

◈  The "Right to Sovereignty" and the right to form a sovereign state _(de jure sovereignty) _​.........................................................................• 'vs' • ​◈  The actual capacity and ability to form and exercise the power by a state _(de facto sovereignty)_.​


RoccoR said:


> ◈ Which Palestine sovereignty are you speaking of?





P F Tinmore said:


> You believe that foreign military force can negate Palestine's right to sovereignty.
> 
> So then, what is the meaning of non aggression?


*(COMMENT)*

You have, as I recall, often used the phrase "sovereignty without external interference."  When we talk about "sovereignty" in general, we are speaking of a government (governing body) to exercise full power and control _(de facto sovereignty)_ without external interference.  The keyword here is *"external"* interference.  When "Fatah" _(the Ramallah Government) _interferes with "HAMAS" _(the Gaza Government) _*[or vice versa]* that is "internal" _(not external)_ interference.  Anyone who tells you that the Arab Palestinians speak with one voice, one leadership, → looking forward with one governing body, is simply not operating in the reality of the ground truth.

*(IF • THEN)

IF* the Arab Palestinian leadership cannot, in good faith, come to the negotiating table to hammer out a peace product, *THEN* they really don't have the "ability" to "settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered," *THEN* they (the Arab Palestinians) cannot establish international peace and security and the development of friendly relations and co-operation between nations (Israel).  And in fact, within recent months, the Arab Palestinians have condemned Israel's success in forging normalized relations with six Arab Countries _(not to mention the two Peace Treaties with Egypt and Jordan)_. [_A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations_]
*
(NON-AGGRESSION)*

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.  [*A/RES/29/3314 - Definition of Aggression*] (See _Article 8 bis • Crime of Aggression • *Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*_) Israel used Armed Force in an International Armed Conflict with the Armed Forces of the Arab League in 1948.  That was a matter of self-defense pursuant to Article 51 • Chapter VII *ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION* • UN Charter. That is the use of an Armed Force in an Act of Non-Aggression (defensive fashion). 

Israel has never initiated a conflict with a State known as "Palestine."   Israel has never initiated a conflict with an Actor that did not demonstrate the "Threat of the use of force." In 1988, The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan abandon the former sovereign holdings in the West Bank and Jerusalem by cutting all ties with the territories West of the Jordan River. The 1967 Conflict over the West Bank and Jerusalem was resolved in 1994 with the creation of a Treaty of Peace between the two sovereign nations.

*(EPILOG)*

I'm not sure that there is really an entity called the State of Palestine that meets the criteria of a fully functioning government even today.  Remember, since 1988, the* Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people*.  Between the years 1998 and 2012, the designation "Palestine" was used in place of the PLO designation.  Until 1998, the territory of Palestine was considered a legal entity (less Israel a sovereign nation).  After 1998, "Palestine" was the new designation for the PLO at the UN.  After 2012, the Fatah Chairman and President Abbas, started using the State of Palestine designation.  







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The Pally’s keepin’ it classy.

They want how much _Great Satan_™️ welfare money?










						Trump Hung In Effigy At Fatah Anniversary Celebration In North Lebanon Refugee Camps
					

On January 1, 2021, Alahednews.com (Lebanon) aired a report about Fatah's 56th anniversary, which was marked in the Pale...




					www.memri.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You have, as I recall, often used the phrase "sovereignty without external interference." When we talk about "sovereignty" in general, we are speaking of a government (governing body) to exercise full power and control _(de facto sovereignty)_ without external interference. The keyword here is *"external"* interference.


Indeed, that is correct and that is what I have been saying for years. Many times UN resolutions have confirmed that the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, They have also stated that the Palestinians right to sovereignty has been violated by external military occupation.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: No one is denying that the Palestinians have the "Right to Sovereignty"  _(de jure sovereignty)_.




RoccoR said:


> You have, as I recall, often used the phrase "sovereignty without external interference." When we talk about "sovereignty" in general, we are speaking of a government (governing body) to exercise full power and control _(de facto sovereignty)_ without external interference. The keyword here is *"external"* interference.





P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, that is correct and that is what I have been saying for years. Many times UN resolutions have confirmed that the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, They have also stated that the Palestinians right to sovereignty has been violated by external military occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

The major malfunction the Arab Palestinians exhibit, and has been explained many - many - times, the Arab Palestinians have not demonstrated the capacity and ability to form and exercise the power by a state _(de facto sovereignty)_.  (Not in over 70 years.)  It is not Israel's fault.  It is not America's.  It rests squarely with the Arabs.  Starting with the conflict beginning in 1946 _(the eligibility date for UNRWA Services)_.  And in all that time, the Arab Palestinians have rejected every single potential for peace.

The Arab Palestinians are always whining as the victim, claiming somebody took something from them.  But in reality, they have never had the strength to push forward to peace.  They either have the ability - or - they don't.  But they need to stop their whining and get their act together.  The first step is to open negotiations in good faith.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.


Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> (Not in over 70 years.)


Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
Click to expand...

indeed, what attack?
link?

When was Israel the aggressor?
link?

”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
link”

Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Not in over 70 years.)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.
Click to expand...

What Pally sovereign territory has been occupied?
link?

How much UN sponsored welfare money are the Pally’s entitled to for doing nothing?
link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> indeed, what attack?
> link?
> 
> When was Israel the aggressor?
> link?
> 
> ”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
> link”
> 
> Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.
Click to expand...




			https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/15208/1948%20Ethnic%20Cleansing%20of%20Palestine.pdf;sequence=2


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> indeed, what attack?
> link?
> 
> When was Israel the aggressor?
> link?
> 
> ”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
> link”
> 
> Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/15208/1948%20Ethnic%20Cleansing%20of%20Palestine.pdf;sequence=2
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: These are two common themes expressed by the Arab Palestinians.  These are in the family of *Faulty Causation Fallacies* _(Oversimplification and Exaggeration)_.  While most people, from time to time, are guilty of this fallacy, the Arab Palestinians have raised this to a level of an Olympic Sport.  _(Hah, Ha, while true, it is an example of an Exaggeration Fallacy.)_



RoccoR said:


> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.





P F Tinmore said:


> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel did not exist _(in contemporary history)_ until 15 May 1948 _(independence through self-determination)_. Most of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip were occupied by the Arab League Forces as an outcome of the combined attack as they left their respective sovereign territories and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate in an effort to use force to accomplish their political objective that the Arab League could not accomplish through diplomacy.

However, when we talk about the Arab-Israeli Conflict, we generally open with the outbreak of hostilities _(very low-intensity conflict)_ in 1946. In that short period between 1946 and 1948, the Jewish paramilitary forces, in anticipation of the coming conflict which the Arab League was making no secret of, began to remove potentially hostile Arab Palestinians under its influence → out from the vicinity of military operations. While there may have been many associated political objectives to this removal, the military reasoning was to secure what would become the "rear area" and to facilities the advanced clearance of roadways _(refugee clog)_ for Jewish troop movements and logistical flow. The would ensure, to the extent possible, that Israeli forces only had to engage hostile forces from one direction [the forward edge of the battle (FEBA)] and not have to fight Arab fifth columnists coming up from behind them. Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law, this would be equivalent to Rule #24 and part of the modern-day *Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I*, to the Geneva Convention.



RoccoR said:


> (Not in over 70 years.)





P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.


*(COMMENT)*

This is a very tricky piece of misinformation.  While it is true that, commonly, the territory under the "Question of Palestine," has been occupied for seventy years, the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, by the Arab League for almost 20 years.  And the Gaza Strip has been under the control of Arab Palestinian terrorist forces for the last decade.  

While it is true that Israeli Force have been in most of the West Bank since 1967, the first twenty years was to secure the area from potential military advances from one of the original Arab League states that committed military units in the 1948 attack.  And since 1988, when the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Jordanians, ostensively, left the control in the hands of the Israelis.  At the time, the Arab Palestinians had not even declared independence.  And when independence was finally declared, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was recognized as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) which was, at the time, an international terrorist group.  Still stinging in the ear of the world was the PLO attack on the Olympic Games, the assassination of Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel, and it was a time when terrorists like Dalal al-Maghribi came into prominence.

*(∑Ω)*

Although the occupation did present some problems, the real cause was the growth and intensity of the anti-Israeli Operations by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  And still today, the Arab Palestinians openly defy international laws that prohibit the advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis.

The reason for their retarded economic growth is the concentration of their attention on anti-Israeli activities.  The HoAP represent a danger to the regional peace, but what is a heavy fuel to the extended life of terrorism is the indoctrination from childhood that discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis is normal and as one Senior PLO put it:  "*Killing Israelis is not terrorism, it is not criminal, it is legitimate*."
As long as you have a culture that endorses such in a public forum, you will have a continuation of the _status quo_.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: These are two common themes expressed by the Arab Palestinians.  These are in the family of *Faulty Causation Fallacies* _(Oversimplification and Exaggeration)_.  While most people, from time to time, are guilty of this fallacy, the Arab Palestinians have raised this to a level of an Olympic Sport.  _(Hah, Ha, while true, it is an example of an Exaggeration Fallacy.)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel did not exist _(in contemporary history)_ until 15 May 1948 _(independence through self-determination)_. Most of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip were occupied by the Arab League Forces as an outcome of the combined attack as they left their respective sovereign territories and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate in an effort to use force to accomplish their political objective that the Arab League could not accomplish through diplomacy.
> 
> However, when we talk about the Arab-Israeli Conflict, we generally open with the outbreak of hostilities _(very low-intensity conflict)_ in 1946. In that short period between 1946 and 1948, the Jewish paramilitary forces, in anticipation of the coming conflict which the Arab League was making no secret of, began to remove potentially hostile Arab Palestinians under its influence → out from the vicinity of military operations. While there may have been many associated political objectives to this removal, the military reasoning was to secure what would become the "rear area" and to facilities the advanced clearance of roadways _(refugee clog)_ for Jewish troop movements and logistical flow. The would ensure, to the extent possible, that Israeli forces only had to engage hostile forces from one direction [the forward edge of the battle (FEBA)] and not have to fight Arab fifth columnists coming up from behind them. Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law, this would be equivalent to Rule #24 and part of the modern-day *Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I*, to the Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Not in over 70 years.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very tricky piece of misinformation.  While it is true that, commonly, the territory under the "Question of Palestine," has been occupied for seventy years, the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, by the Arab League for almost 20 years.  And the Gaza Strip has been under the control of Arab Palestinian terrorist forces for the last decade.
> 
> While it is true that Israeli Force have been in most of the West Bank since 1967, the first twenty years was to secure the area from potential military advances from one of the original Arab League states that committed military units in the 1948 attack.  And since 1988, when the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Jordanians, ostensively, left the control in the hands of the Israelis.  At the time, the Arab Palestinians had not even declared independence.  And when independence was finally declared, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was recognized as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) which was, at the time, an international terrorist group.  Still stinging in the ear of the world was the PLO attack on the Olympic Games, the assassination of Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel, and it was a time when terrorists like Dalal al-Maghribi came into prominence.
> 
> *(∑Ω)*
> 
> Although the occupation did present some problems, the real cause was the growth and intensity of the anti-Israeli Operations by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  And still today, the Arab Palestinians openly defy international laws that prohibit the advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis.
> 
> The reason for their retarded economic growth is the concentration of their attention on anti-Israeli activities.  The HoAP represent a danger to the regional peace, but what is a heavy fuel to the extended life of terrorism is the indoctrination from childhood that discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis is normal and as one Senior PLO put it:  "*Killing Israelis is not terrorism, it is not criminal, it is legitimate*."
> As long as you have a culture that endorses such in a public forum, you will have a continuation of the _status quo_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get all of this shit?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: These are two common themes expressed by the Arab Palestinians.  These are in the family of *Faulty Causation Fallacies* _(Oversimplification and Exaggeration)_.  While most people, from time to time, are guilty of this fallacy, the Arab Palestinians have raised this to a level of an Olympic Sport.  _(Hah, Ha, while true, it is an example of an Exaggeration Fallacy.)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel did not exist _(in contemporary history)_ until 15 May 1948 _(independence through self-determination)_. Most of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip were occupied by the Arab League Forces as an outcome of the combined attack as they left their respective sovereign territories and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate in an effort to use force to accomplish their political objective that the Arab League could not accomplish through diplomacy.
> 
> However, when we talk about the Arab-Israeli Conflict, we generally open with the outbreak of hostilities _(very low-intensity conflict)_ in 1946. In that short period between 1946 and 1948, the Jewish paramilitary forces, in anticipation of the coming conflict which the Arab League was making no secret of, began to remove potentially hostile Arab Palestinians under its influence → out from the vicinity of military operations. While there may have been many associated political objectives to this removal, the military reasoning was to secure what would become the "rear area" and to facilities the advanced clearance of roadways _(refugee clog)_ for Jewish troop movements and logistical flow. The would ensure, to the extent possible, that Israeli forces only had to engage hostile forces from one direction [the forward edge of the battle (FEBA)] and not have to fight Arab fifth columnists coming up from behind them. Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law, this would be equivalent to Rule #24 and part of the modern-day *Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I*, to the Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Not in over 70 years.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a very tricky piece of misinformation.  While it is true that, commonly, the territory under the "Question of Palestine," has been occupied for seventy years, the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, by the Arab League for almost 20 years.  And the Gaza Strip has been under the control of Arab Palestinian terrorist forces for the last decade.
> 
> While it is true that Israeli Force have been in most of the West Bank since 1967, the first twenty years was to secure the area from potential military advances from one of the original Arab League states that committed military units in the 1948 attack.  And since 1988, when the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Jordanians, ostensively, left the control in the hands of the Israelis.  At the time, the Arab Palestinians had not even declared independence.  And when independence was finally declared, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was recognized as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) which was, at the time, an international terrorist group.  Still stinging in the ear of the world was the PLO attack on the Olympic Games, the assassination of Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel, and it was a time when terrorists like Dalal al-Maghribi came into prominence.
> 
> *(∑Ω)*
> 
> Although the occupation did present some problems, the real cause was the growth and intensity of the anti-Israeli Operations by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  And still today, the Arab Palestinians openly defy international laws that prohibit the advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis.
> 
> The reason for their retarded economic growth is the concentration of their attention on anti-Israeli activities.  The HoAP represent a danger to the regional peace, but what is a heavy fuel to the extended life of terrorism is the indoctrination from childhood that discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis is normal and as one Senior PLO put it:  "*Killing Israelis is not terrorism, it is not criminal, it is legitimate*."
> As long as you have a culture that endorses such in a public forum, you will have a continuation of the _status quo_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get all of this shit?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You didn't see the links?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> indeed, what attack?
> link?
> 
> When was Israel the aggressor?
> link?
> 
> ”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
> link”
> 
> Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/15208/1948%20Ethnic%20Cleansing%20of%20Palestine.pdf;sequence=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

No guns. No uniforms. No Hamas flags. No riots.

Just a bunch of people walking around with Palestinian flags.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> indeed, what attack?
> link?
> 
> When was Israel the aggressor?
> link?
> 
> ”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
> link”
> 
> Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/15208/1948%20Ethnic%20Cleansing%20of%20Palestine.pdf;sequence=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No guns. No uniforms. No Hamas flags. No riots.
> 
> Just a bunch of people walking around with Palestinian flags.
Click to expand...

Well, that’s strange. It’s as though you’re out of touch... or something.

I guess Islamic terrorism is defined as “peaceful protests” except for the acts of Islamic terrorism.









						Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members
					

Israel says it shows that Hamas is using border protests as a cover for terrorist attacks.




					www.nbcnews.com


----------



## Hollie

Well, isn’t this strange. We’re told that the Pally gee-had isn’t about religion. Yet, the Pally’s tell us differently.

Decisions, decisions. 


*What is the PA definition of “a holy war for the sake of Allah”?









						What is the PA definition of “a holy war for the sake of Allah”? | PMW Analysis
					

PA Answer: A terrorist responsible for murder of 9 civilians including a 9-month old!




					palwatch.org
				



*
Itamar Marcus  | Jan 6, 2021

*Question: Who “fought a holy war for the sake of Allah"?*
*PA Answer: A terrorist responsible for the murder of 9 civilians including a 9-month old!*
*“Heroic Martyr Marwan Kayed Zalum… fought a holy war for the sake of Allah... [for] Fatah”*
*“Zalum was endowed with courage and strength… had lofty morals”*
*“He was always at the front of the struggle against the Zionist enemy.”*
The official PA daily has devoted a lot of space recently to celebrate the 56th anniversary of its first terror attack, which it calls the launch of the Fatah Movement. Among the articles it chose to publish, was an op-ed that went out of its way to praise, glorify, and honor a terrorist who was involved in the murder of at least 9 Israelis, including a 9-month-old baby.

Terrorist Marwan Zalum was responsible for a number of terror attacks, including sending the terrorist who shot and murdered an infant in 2001. Zalum also organized the planting of a bomb which murdered one, and initiated a shooting attack in which an additional person was murdered. Zalum also provided the bomb used in a suicide attack in 2002, in which 6 people were murdered and 80 wounded. Zalum was killed by the Israeli army in 2002.

The recent article in the official PA daily described Zalum’s “career” as head of Fatah's designated terror organization, the *Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, *honoring him for being “responsible for many shooting operations” and “self-sacrificing operations” – the PA’s euphemisms for terror attacks and suicide bombings. The writer even singled out one such suicide bombing as “the most prominent.” The article referred to the PA's terror campaign from 2000-2005 in which more than 1,100 Israelis were murdered, "*the blessed Al-Aqsa Intifada"*:
_*The following is a longer excerpt of the op-ed:*_


> “Martyr fighter Marwan Kayed Mutlaq Abd Al-Karim Zalum ‘Abu Saja’ (i.e., terrorist, involved in murder of at least 9) was born in Hebron in 1960 to one of the famous Hebron families…
> He left for Jordan, and from there for Lebanon where he joined the Fatah Movement and was one of its fighters…
> He returned to the homeland mere months before the outbreak of *the blessed Al-Aqsa Intifada *(i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered), *and received an appointment in the Palestinian [PA] Security Forces* like his comrades who preceded him.


----------



## Hollie

The Sunni and Shia take an occasional, momentary break from their 1,400 year old kill-fest aimed at each other to focus on Jews. K











						Sec.-Gen. Of Palestinian Islamic Jihad Ziad Al-Nakhaleh: Nothing Happened In Gaza Without Soleimani's Direct Orders And Supervision, He Supplied The Rockets We Used To Attack Tel Aviv
					

Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Ziad Al-Nakhaleh spoke about IRGC Qods Force commander Qasem Solieman...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

Howdy, neighbor. Ya’ got a problem with that?











						Rashida Tlaib's New Office Neighbor to Fly Israeli Flag - Washington Free Beacon
					

Rep. Rashida Tlaib's (D., Mich.) new neighbor in her congressional office building intends to fly an Israeli flag as a statement against Tlaib's anti-Israel stance.




					freebeacon.com
				





Rep. Rashida Tlaib's (D., Mich.) new neighbor in her congressional office building intends to fly an Israeli flag as a statement against Tlaib's anti-Israel stance.

Freshman Rep. Kat Cammack (R., Fla.), who has been given the office next to Tlaib’s for the 117th Congress, says she hopes Israel's flag will send a message to Tlaib, a frequent critic of Israel who has a history of anti-Semitic comments.


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## Hollie

There’s an anniversary of sorts being celebrated by Fatah. Yes, it’s just what you would expect. 



*PA lauds Fatah’s terror history, glorifies mass murderers*
Itamar Marcus  | Jan 7, 2021



As part of the celebrations of Abbas’ Fatah Movement’s 56th anniversary, official PA TV broadcast a short video lauding and emphasizing Fatah’s terror history. While Abbas is heard speaking about Fatah’s “achievements,” the filler shows pictures of terrorists and mass murderers who participated or planned the most lethal terror attacks against Israel: Arch-terrorist Abu Jihad who planned the murder of at least 125; Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37 civilians, among them 12 children; and Salah Khalaf who headed the Black September terror organization that carried out the massacre of the 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972”:


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## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
Click to expand...

How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
Click to expand...

Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
Click to expand...


It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Substantiate your claim.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
Click to expand...

The question has been addressed and answered for you dozens of times. There are no borders to any imaginary 'country of Pallyland', 

It seems you're having problems dealing with a reality based worldview.


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Substantiate your claim.
Click to expand...

You first.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> 
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Substantiate your claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You first.
Click to expand...


It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
Doesn't have borders. Never had borders. 

If you have proof it is or was,
that it does or did.......

Post it up, buttercup.


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## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
Click to expand...

It was a rhetorical question . Palestine does not have borders, yet Israel has internationally recognized borders. I almost feel bad for you for not being able to accept the truth. Almost...


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Substantiate your claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> If you have proof it is or was,
> that it does or did.......
> 
> Post it up, buttercup.
Click to expand...

You first.


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## TroglocratsRdumb

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a rhetorical question . Palestine does not have borders, yet Israel has internationally recognized borders. I almost feel bad for you for not being able to accept the truth. Almost...
Click to expand...

usually palistine supporters are dangerous fanatics who hate jews


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## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

*BLUF*: The confusion rests with what is meant by "Palestine" as one question? Another confusion rests in who are the parties to the Agreements our friend "P F Tinmore is talking about?.



toastman said:


> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)





P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.





toastman said:


> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?





P F Tinmore said:


> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.


*(COMMENT)*

As you will note, from the first "stared reference" below, the period of 1919 thru 1921 was a very furious period of activity by the Allied Powers.  Prior to the *Armistice of Mudros* (1918)_ (or for that matter, named within the Armistice)_, the designation of Palestine was not used at all.  While there might have been an undocumented region known as "Palestine," there was no political subdivision as such _(and just as obvious no official boundaries)_.






​
After the Treaty of Mudros effectively marked the end of hostilities across the entirety of the Middle East.  The Allied Powers, which began to militarily occupy the landscape in 1917, had created *The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration* (OETA) which assumed the responsibility for the entirety of the region with the Mudros Armistice (1918).  And in 1919 the Paris Peace Talks began and the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers began to shape the post-War efforts moving forward.  The territory which our friend P F Tinmore calls "Palestine" was the name brought into common use by the Allied Powers _(particularly the UK and France)_.  And thus, the boundaries between the Mandates created by the 1920 San Remo decisions were between the UK and France in the north.  The eastern boundaries were distinguished by two mandates covering Palestine and Mesopotamia, and to the south between Palestine and Egypt.

*NOTE:* _ When _*Lord Balfour wrote, in November 1917*_, __ "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"  the region or territory of Palestine had not been defined.  It was still in the conceptual stages.  The __*Paulet–Newcombe Agreement*__ (formalizing the boundaries between the Mandates) was not made until 1923, and recorded in Treaty #564 noted in the first stared reference note below._​
The "Palestine boundaries" that our friend P F Tinmore is mentioning were those mentioned in the first stared reference below.  In 1920, the Mandate crafted by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers titled the authority their *Mandate for Palestine*, as agreed to by the Principal Allied Powers and noted in the opening sentence of the Preamble of the Mandate.  Up and until the conclusion of the San Remo Conference, militarily, the region was known as "The Occupied Enemy Territory" and administered under that name _(the British Military Campaign was named "Palestine")_.  When the Civilian Administration supplanted July 1920, following the decisions of the Supreme Council that April, the UK Privy Council the following August issued the "*Palestine Order in Council*" in which the opening paragraph stated:  "The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies,* hereinafter described as Palestine*."

As noted in the Memorandum "A" A/AC.21/UK/42 *LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE*” 25 February 1948, "Palestine" was a "legal entity" and NOT self-governing.

*REFERENCES NOTES:*
*_______________________________*
◈ *Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6* • ​​◈ *Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel* • ​​◈ *Golan Heights Law* • ​​◈ *Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP* (1979) • ​​◈ *Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty*(1994) • ​​◈ *Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon* • ​​✪  The nationality does not set the boundaries. It is the boundaries that set the nationalities. And the Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the *Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921*." From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain (*Treaty # 564*). Treaty #564 is the *Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920*. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia." ​​✪  Like solutions in Mathematics, some political determination reaches a point where they cannot be simplified any further. As I noted in an earlier discussion, the entirety of these Treaties and Agreements have all been overtaken by events through the decisions outlined in documents I mentioned in Posting #631 of this thread.​​✪  *Posting #647.* ​





Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies





RoccoR said:


> the establishment *in Palestine*


There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.

The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.


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## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

*BLUF*: If there is someone here now that is intentionally disseminating misinformation, it certainly is NOT Israel.



RoccoR said:


> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies





RoccoR said:


> the establishment *in Palestine*





P F Tinmore said:


> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians are absolutely separate to establish some validity that, prior to the end of the Mandate, there was a "State of Palestine."

Governments don't write memo's that say something did not exist; except in very rare occasions.

In Posting *#18,224* - the was a discussion on the use of "Regional names."

In Posting *#18234* - there was a discussion on the use of "negative proofs" and the fallacy behind them.

I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.  Other then the rediculous attempt to use Article 30 - Natalization,

Endnote:​[LINK]​A *negative proof* _(known classically as appeal to ignorance)_ is a logical fallacy which takes the structure of: X is true because there is no proof that X is false. In our case your implication is that "Palestine is a Country" because there is no proof it was not a country. You need to stop asking for "*negative proof.*"​*Terminology - Argumentation fallacies: Impossible to prove the non-existing [closed]*​




Most Respectfully,
R


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you ignored my earlier questions about what specifically are Palestine’s borders (east, west, north, south)
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt as noted in the links I have posted many times and you never looked at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can those borders of ‘Palestine’ exist when currently Israel has internationally recognized borders with Jordan to the East and Egypt to the south ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I am sure you won't look into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Substantiate your claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's because Palestine isn't a country. Never was a country.
> Doesn't have borders. Never had borders.
> 
> If you have proof it is or was,
> that it does or did.......
> 
> Post it up, buttercup.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You first.
Click to expand...






I don't see any borders with Palestine or of Palestine.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
Click to expand...


_There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _

And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.


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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.


Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.

States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
Click to expand...

A state does not need a Mandate to exist.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
Click to expand...


*A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *

An imaginary state doesn't need borders.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
Click to expand...


*States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation. *

Especially the ones that did not exist before the "occupation".


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
Click to expand...

Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation. *
> 
> Especially the ones that did not exist before the "occupation".
Click to expand...

Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.



What about the border agreements they signed with their neighbors?
Isn't that a declaration?


----------



## P F Tinmore

israel's declared borders


P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
Click to expand...










						It is time Israel declared her borders
					

From the blog of Devin Sper at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				




Recent violations of Israel’s border by an Iranian drone and mass protests by Hamas supporters in Gaza highlight a broader problem:   Israel has never actually declared her borders.  While the 1948 armistice line and 1967 cease fire lines became temporary de facto borders Israel never declared either as her official border, nor did any country recognize them as such. Her failure to do has left a vacuum, that Israel’s enemies have repeatedly exploited to undermine her legitimacy, for a country without borders is not a country.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation. *
> 
> Especially the ones that did not exist before the "occupation".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
Click to expand...


Yes, we're back to "Israel is a country with borders and Palestine is nothing".

And we're back to your whining about it.

You're free to prove Palestine was a country before the "occupation".

But you won't. Because you can't. Because it wasn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the border agreements they signed with their neighbors?
> Isn't that a declaration?
Click to expand...

There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation. *
> 
> Especially the ones that did not exist before the "occupation".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, we're back to "Israel is a country with borders and Palestine is nothing".
> 
> And we're back to your whining about it.
> 
> You're free to prove Palestine was a country before the "occupation".
> 
> But you won't. Because you can't. Because it wasn't.
Click to expand...

Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?

Indeed we are.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
Click to expand...

When was Pal'istan a state?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the border agreements they signed with their neighbors?
> Isn't that a declaration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...

Indeed, What international borders?

Link?

The state of Israel has a treaty with Egypt to establish a border, for one example. 

What nations have a treaty to establish borrders with your invented 'country of Pal'istan?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation. *
> 
> Especially the ones that did not exist before the "occupation".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, we're back to "Israel is a country with borders and Palestine is nothing".
> 
> And we're back to your whining about it.
> 
> You're free to prove Palestine was a country before the "occupation".
> 
> But you won't. Because you can't. Because it wasn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
> 
> Indeed we are.
Click to expand...

Are we back, as usual, to your nonsense claims?

Indeed we are.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
Click to expand...

You mean other than the borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was Pal'istan a state?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the border agreements they signed with their neighbors?
> Isn't that a declaration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...


*There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.*

Probably because Palestine was never a country.
Never had international borders.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation. *
> 
> Especially the ones that did not exist before the "occupation".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, we're back to "Israel is a country with borders and Palestine is nothing".
> 
> And we're back to your whining about it.
> 
> You're free to prove Palestine was a country before the "occupation".
> 
> But you won't. Because you can't. Because it wasn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
> 
> Indeed we are.
Click to expand...


You're free to prove Palestine was a country before the "occupation".

But you won't. Because you can't. Because it wasn't.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.



Liar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the border agreements they signed with their neighbors?
> Isn't that a declaration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, What international borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> The state of Israel has a treaty with Egypt to establish a border, for one example.
> 
> What nations have a treaty to establish borrders with your invented 'country of Pal'istan?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Indeed, What international borders?


Posted many times. Sorry you can't keep up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am beginning to believe that you don't have any proof that "Palestine" was ever a "self-governing" state.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice attempt at deflection. Occupied states are not self governing because the are under foreign military control.
> 
> States do not cease to exist when they are under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was Pal'istan a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
Click to expand...

No, it was not. Did you know the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank disagree with you?

Indeed,, you are riding your zebra again. Rode hard and put up wet.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the border agreements they signed with their neighbors?
> Isn't that a declaration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, What international borders?
> 
> Link?
> 
> The state of Israel has a treaty with Egypt to establish a border, for one example.
> 
> What nations have a treaty to establish borrders with your invented 'country of Pal'istan?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, What international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posted many times. Sorry you can't keep up.
Click to expand...

You post many false things multiple times.

Wet sponge your zebra.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
Click to expand...

Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Did you know the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank disagree with you?


Good!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
Click to expand...

Why do the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank still want a state?

Have you let them ride your zebra?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know the Islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank disagree with you?
> 
> 
> 
> Good!
Click to expand...

They point and laugh at you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank still want a state?
> 
> Have you let them ride your zebra?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

The documents are in English. They speak Arabic.


----------



## Hollie

Some interesting news surrounding the Pally terrorists. 

Provided there is enforcement of the 2016 counter terrorism law, this will be a deterrent.





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/01/07/no-more-pay-for-slay-bank-of-palestine-will-not-be-paying-terrorists/
		


Unless the bank discontinues its involvement with terrorists' accounts, it will be subject to enormous legal and economic risks under to the 2016 Counter-Terrorism Law.

The Bank of Palestine has recently discontinued its work with the accounts of terrorists who receive benefits from the Palestinian Authority.

According to official statements from the terrorist organizations, the bank has informed terrorists and their family members that they must withdraw all funds and close their accounts.

The decision stems from the warning the Bank of Palestine received from the Palestinian Media Watch, a non-profit Israeli institute that researches the Palestinian society.

The institute warned the bank about a year ago that according to the 2016 Counter-Terrorism Law, financial entities involved in the pay for slay system will be viewed as supporting terrorists – and will therefore be exposed to enormous legal and economic risks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank still want a state?
> 
> Have you let them ride your zebra?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The documents are in English. They speak Arabic.
Click to expand...


You need to get the UN involved. 

Can you send a zebra to Arabia?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
Click to expand...


You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
Click to expand...

Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
Click to expand...

I'll respond on behalf of P F Tinmore:

"'The documents are in English. They speak Arabic.''


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
Click to expand...


They were both mentioned.
The documents were signed by Israeli officials.
None were signed by Palestinians.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
Click to expand...


Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
Click to expand...

What Pally forces were mentioned?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
Click to expand...

Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
Click to expand...

Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements. 

Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
Click to expand...

Same old stuff you know is a tired, worn out sidestep.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
Click to expand...


Plan of partition? 
Where does it show the nation of Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
Click to expand...

Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
Click to expand...

OK, they had troops in Palestine.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
Click to expand...

What international borders?

Are you suggesting some invented 'country of Pal'istan' was partitioned?

Link?


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
Click to expand...


That's a proposed map of a Jewish state and an Arab state, look in the legend.
Not the nation of Palestine. DURR

Try again?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
Click to expand...

That's not a link.

Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.

Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?

What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?

Links?


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a proposed map of a Jewish state and an Arab state, look in the legend.
> Not the nation of Palestine. DURR
> 
> Try again?
Click to expand...

The map says Palestine Plan of Partition. It is a modified 1946 map of Palestine with the added defunct partition plan.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a proposed map of a Jewish state and an Arab state, look in the legend.
> Not the nation of Palestine. DURR
> 
> Try again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The map says Palestine Plan of Partition. It is a modified 1946 map of Palestine with the added defunct partition plan.
Click to expand...


*The map says Palestine Plan of Partition.  *

And it isn't a map of the nation of Palestine.
You have one of those?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.
Click to expand...


Because it wasn't a nation. Still isn't.


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a proposed map of a Jewish state and an Arab state, look in the legend.
> Not the nation of Palestine. DURR
> 
> Try again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The map says Palestine Plan of Partition. It is a modified 1946 map of Palestine with the added defunct partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The map says Palestine Plan of Partition.  *
> 
> And it isn't a map of the nation of Palestine.
> You have one of those?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it wasn't a nation. Still isn't.
Click to expand...

Back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it wasn't a nation. Still isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back to Israel's unsubstantiated talking points.
Click to expand...


When was Palestine a nation? LOL!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a proposed map of a Jewish state and an Arab state, look in the legend.
> Not the nation of Palestine. DURR
> 
> Try again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The map says Palestine Plan of Partition. It is a modified 1946 map of Palestine with the added defunct partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The map says Palestine Plan of Partition.  *
> 
> And it isn't a map of the nation of Palestine.
> You have one of those?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 Cretin


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.
Click to expand...


Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.

Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?

What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

*BLUF*: You make some of the damnedest claims.



P F Tinmore said:


> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.


*(REQUEST)*

Take a MAP of the Region and in marker, outline the International Border of "Palestine" you say is delineated by Treaty.
Date the period.
Identify the Treaty or Treaties as I do.
THEN scan it.
Attach it to you response...






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

*BLUF*: II'm confused. You never tell us what document(s) you are looking at.



P F Tinmore said:


> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."


*(COMMENT)*

It (they) cannot exclude "Palestine" for two reasons.

◈  It is not defined.​◈  It was not a party to the agreement.​
AND:  I never saw the words "including Palestine!"  Which is equally as absurd...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You make some of the damnedest claims.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REQUEST)*
> 
> Take a MAP of the Region and in marker, outline the International Border of "Palestine" you say is delineated by Treaty.
> Date the period.
> Identify the Treaty or Treaties as I do.
> THEN scan it.
> Attach it to you response...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The eastern border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan was of particular significance.8 The Palestine Mandate originally incorporated the territory of Trans-Jordan within the scope of ‘Palestine.’ Article 25 of the Mandate accorded Britain the power, “with consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as… may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions.” Subsequently, on 16 September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations passed a resolution by which it approved a proposal submitted by Britain to exclude Trans-Jordan from the scope of Palestine’s territory.9 

With regard to the northern border of Palestine, Britain and France (the occupying powers at the time, and later the mandatory powers over Syria and Lebanon respectively) signed an agreement which settled key aspects relating to the Palestinian-Syrian-Lebanese border (Paris, 23 December 1920).20 The British High Commissioner of Palestine and the French High Commissioner of Syria and Lebanon reached, at Jerusalem on 16 December 1923, a complementary agreement on border issues.21 On 2 February 1926, the agreement was replaced by the _Bon Voisinage Agreement to Regulate Certain Administrative Matters in Connection with the Frontier between Palestine and Syria [including Lebanon]_.22 

The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne. 









						Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
					

Introduction This paper addresses the status of the inhabitants of the territory that has become known as ‘Palestine’ and that had been part of the Ottoman Empire since 1516, during the period star...




					journals.openedition.org


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
Click to expand...

Liars in Israel? What are you talking about. A specific price of land (so to speak) is either a state or it isn’t. It’s black and white, nothing more.
In Palestine’s case, Palestine is not a state and never was. That simple. It’s not my fault you cannot accept this simple fact .


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You make some of the damnedest claims.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has never been a treaty changing Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REQUEST)*
> 
> Take a MAP of the Region and in marker, outline the International Border of "Palestine" you say is delineated by Treaty.
> Date the period.
> Identify the Treaty or Treaties as I do.
> THEN scan it.
> Attach it to you response...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The eastern border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan was of particular significance.8 The Palestine Mandate originally incorporated the territory of Trans-Jordan within the scope of ‘Palestine.’ Article 25 of the Mandate accorded Britain the power, “with consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as… may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions.” Subsequently, on 16 September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations passed a resolution by which it approved a proposal submitted by Britain to exclude Trans-Jordan from the scope of Palestine’s territory.9
> 
> With regard to the northern border of Palestine, Britain and France (the occupying powers at the time, and later the mandatory powers over Syria and Lebanon respectively) signed an agreement which settled key aspects relating to the Palestinian-Syrian-Lebanese border (Paris, 23 December 1920).20 The British High Commissioner of Palestine and the French High Commissioner of Syria and Lebanon reached, at Jerusalem on 16 December 1923, a complementary agreement on border issues.21 On 2 February 1926, the agreement was replaced by the _Bon Voisinage Agreement to Regulate Certain Administrative Matters in Connection with the Frontier between Palestine and Syria [including Lebanon]_.22
> 
> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> Introduction This paper addresses the status of the inhabitants of the territory that has become known as ‘Palestine’ and that had been part of the Ottoman Empire since 1516, during the period star...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> journals.openedition.org
Click to expand...

Not more zebras.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
Click to expand...

You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
Click to expand...

Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.

Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.

Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.

There is a question of validity here.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: What a waste of Bandwidth.



P F Tinmore said:


> The eastern border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan was of particular significance.8 The Palestine Mandate originally incorporated the territory of Trans-Jordan within the scope of ‘Palestine.’ Article 25 of the Mandate accorded Britain the power, “with consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as… may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions.” Subsequently, on 16 September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations passed a resolution by which it approved a proposal submitted by Britain to exclude Trans-Jordan from the scope of Palestine’s territory.9\


*(COMMENT)*

This is irrelevant to the issue of "Borders of Palestine" (the State).  The "Palestine they are discussing is the Palestine subject to the Mandate and nothing further.  They were not involved yet in the issue of Independence.  I gave you this information already.  Make no mistake, Jordan was still considered part and parcel a component of the Mandate.  We are still talking about boundaries that separate Mandate Territories and Protectorates.

​

			
				[/FONT]REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE[FONT=arial] said:
			
		

> 2.    His Britannic Majesty is the Mandatory for Transjordan to which the terms of the mandate for Palestine, with the exception of the provisions dealing with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people, are applicable.  The declaration of
> His Majesty's Government with regard to its Mandatory obligations in Transjordan, made to the Council of League of Nations in September, 1922, (Cmd. 1785) was in the following terms:--
> 
> "In the application of the Mandate to Transjordan, the action which in Palestine is taken by the Administration of the latter country, will be taken by the Administration of Transjordan under the general supervision of the Mandatory.
> 
> "His Majesty's Government accept full responsibility as Mandatory for Transjordan, and undertake that such provision as may be made for the administration of that country in accordance with Article 25 of the Mandate shall be in no way inconsistent with those provisions of the Mandate which are not by this resolution   declared inapplicable."
> The Mandatory is represented in Transjordan by the Chief British Representative, assisted by two British officers and a small clerical staff.  The Chief British Representative acts under the instructions of the High Commissioner for Palestine.
> SOURCE:  *31 December 1924   **ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN FOR THE YEAR 1924.*






P F Tinmore said:


> With regard to the northern border of Palestine, Britain and France (the occupying powers at the time, and later the mandatory powers over Syria and Lebanon respectively) signed an agreement which settled key aspects relating to the Palestinian-Syrian-Lebanese border (Paris, 23 December 1920).20 The British High Commissioner of Palestine and the French High Commissioner of Syria and Lebanon reached, at Jerusalem on 16 December 1923, a complementary agreement on border issues.21 On 2 February 1926, the agreement was replaced by the _Bon Voisinage Agreement to Regulate Certain Administrative Matters in Connection with the Frontier between Palestine and Syria [including Lebanon]_.22


*(COMMENT)*

I gave you the links to that agreement several times including today's exchanges.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the agreement and the boundary under discussion pertained to the separation of Mandate territory, not undefined States.  I gave you this information as well. (Several times.)



P F Tinmore said:


> The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a _de facto_ basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906. The first came in the form of an _Exchange of Notes between Britain [which was controlling Egypt since 1882] and Turkey relative to the Maintenance of the Status Quo in the Sinai Peninsula,_ signed in Constantinople on 14 May.28 The second and more detailed border agreement, was the _Agreement between Egypt and Turkey for the fixing of an Administrative Line between the Vilayet [province] of Hejaz and the Governorate [district] of Jerusalem and the Sinai Peninsula_, signed in Rafah, on 1 October.29 The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.



The Allied Powers did not care what the Ottoman Empire recognized or what they did not recognize.  The Supreme Council would make that determination.

This has absolutely nothing to do with boundaries separating a UK Protectorate _(Egypt was a UK Protectorate from 1922 to 1952)_ from a State of Palestine.  It has to do with the distinction between the boundaries separating a UK Protectorate (Egypt) and the UK Mandate (for Palestine).

*(NEAR PROOF you keep ASKING FOR)*

​

			
				[/FONT]MEMORANDUM “A” LEGAL MEANING OF THE TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE[FONT=arial] said:
			
		

> After the 15th May, 1948, *Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state* because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.
> SOURCE:  *A/AC.21/UK/42*  25 February 1948



It is what it is*!*




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
Click to expand...

The UN calls Israel, not the West Bank or Gaza, Palestinian land? Is that what you just posted ? The same UN that recognized Israel’s sovereignty ?
You know what Tinmore, desperation doesn’t even begin to describe you.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
Click to expand...

BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it wasn't a nation. Still isn't.
Click to expand...


Palestine is a province of Syria.. Recognized since 500 BC by Greek historian Herodotus.
Palestinians have always lived there.. since Abraham..


----------



## surada

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
Click to expand...



Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.


----------



## toastman

surada said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
Click to expand...

Israel started which war ?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made the claim that Israel wasn't mentioned in any armistice agreement.
> Remember when I posted the agreements that disproved your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli forces were mentioned. Israel was not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, they had troops in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not a link.
> 
> Israel wasn't simply mentioned in the armistice agreements, Israel was a principal party to the agreements.
> 
> Can you post the links you were given.....repeatedly?
> 
> What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The war was fought in Palestine but it was not a party of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it wasn't a nation. Still isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine is a province of Syria.. Recognized since 500 BC by Greek historian Herodotus.
> Palestinians have always lived there.. since Abraham..
Click to expand...


*Palestine is a province of Syria.. Recognized since 500 BC by Greek historian Herodotus. *

2500 years ago? Cool story!! Any proof a bit more recent that it was a nation?

*Palestinians have always lived there.. since Abraham..*

Abraham? Was he one of those Jewish Palestinians?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
Click to expand...

You seem concerned with a concern only you are concerned with.

What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?

When did the Great Satan™️give East Jerusalem and The Golan Heights to Israel?  Link?

Your various and rather odd versions of history are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> When did the Great Satan™️give East Jerusalem and The Golan Heights to Israel? Link?











						Trump invokes Jerusalem and Golan as accomplishments in letter protesting impeachment
					

***




					www.haaretz.com
				




President Donald Trump named recognizing Israel’s claim to Jerusalem as its capital and its sovereignty over the Golan Heights as accomplishments in a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi protesting impeachment proceedings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?


In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was created as a state as was Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking at the documents creating the new states, I never saw the words "except Palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which document created Palestine? What were the borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look in the legend for the symbol for international boundaries. Than find those symbols on the Map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plan of partition?
> Where does it show the nation of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inside Palestine's international boundaries. DUH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a proposed map of a Jewish state and an Arab state, look in the legend.
> Not the nation of Palestine. DURR
> 
> Try again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The map says Palestine Plan of Partition. It is a modified 1946 map of Palestine with the added defunct partition plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The map says Palestine Plan of Partition.  *
> 
> And it isn't a map of the nation of Palestine.
> You have one of those?
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Plan was to partition Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Great Satan™️give East Jerusalem and The Golan Heights to Israel? Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump invokes Jerusalem and Golan as accomplishments in letter protesting impeachment
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump named recognizing Israel’s claim to Jerusalem as its capital and its sovereignty over the Golan Heights as accomplishments in a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi protesting impeachment proceedings.
Click to expand...

I would have thought you might take the time to understand what you earlier wrote and then understand that posting a link not supporting your claim is time wasting. 

President Trump never gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Heights to Israel. The US never had control of those territories. 

Perhaps you're suggesting that among things accomplished by the Treaty of Lausanne, (aside from inventing the imaginary ''country of Pal'istan'') the Treaty of Lausanne also created two new US states, called East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. In that case, yes, you would be correct and I agree that two US states were given to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The "Palestine they are discussing is the Palestine subject to the Mandate and nothing further.


The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine not of a Mandate.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.

Indeed, there still seems to be some confusion (or misrepresentation) on your part about various armistice agreements and which entities were the principals in those agreements. 

What armistice agreements exist that included the 'country of Pal'istan' as a principal party with the agreements signed by representatives of the 'country of Pal'istan'?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.


The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
Click to expand...

Which nations were the principal parties signing the armistice agreements you referenced?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
Click to expand...

Indeed.

What armistice agreements are you referring to? What nations signed the armistice agreements?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> What armistice agreements are you referring to? What nations signed the armistice agreements?
Click to expand...

The Mandate did no commence until about 3 months after the signing of The Treaty of Lausanne.

So the point is that Palestine was there before the Mandate started and was still there after the Mandate left.

So we should put that Mandate thing to bed.


----------



## surada

toastman said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
Click to expand...


1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> What armistice agreements are you referring to? What nations signed the armistice agreements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate did no commence until about 3 months after the signing of The Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> So the point is that Palestine was there before the Mandate started and was still there after the Mandate left.
> 
> So we should put that Mandate thing to bed.
Click to expand...

The loosely defined geographic area called Pal’istan (you mean the administrative Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire) existed as a geographic area.

I think most of the planet has put the mandate thing to bed, except for you. You obsess over it.

What nations signed the armistice agreements?


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> What armistice agreements are you referring to? What nations signed the armistice agreements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate did no commence until about 3 months after the signing of The Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> So the point is that Palestine was there before the Mandate started and was still there after the Mandate left.
> 
> So we should put that Mandate thing to bed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The loosely defined geographic area called Pal’istan (you mean the administrative Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire) existed as a geographic area.
> 
> What nations signed the armistice agreements?
Click to expand...


Palestine has been home to Arab Jews, Muslims and Christians for over 1300 years. They didn't immigrate from Europe.


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> What armistice agreements are you referring to? What nations signed the armistice agreements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate did no commence until about 3 months after the signing of The Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> So the point is that Palestine was there before the Mandate started and was still there after the Mandate left.
> 
> So we should put that Mandate thing to bed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The loosely defined geographic area called Pal’istan (you mean the administrative Sanjak of the Ottoman Empire) existed as a geographic area.
> 
> What nations signed the armistice agreements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine has been home to Arab Jews, Muslims and Christians for over 1300 years. They didn't immigrate from Europe.
Click to expand...

Where did the Christian Crusaders come from?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
Click to expand...


*In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. *





S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949 (un.org)

That's weird.
An agreement between the government of Israel and the government of Egypt.
No mention of the government of Palestine.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the Plan was to partition Palestine.



And who was going to get the parts?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.



They seriously kicked some Arab ass in 1967, didn't they?


----------



## toastman

surada said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
Click to expand...

I read facts, like the facts that the Arabs were massing troops around Israel, making threats of annihalation and had closed the straits of Tiran, which Israel had said would be taken as an act of war. So Israel pre emptively attacked the Arabs (which is pathetic considering how small Israel is compared to the countries of beat by destroying all their air forces  )
Since the Arabs lost the war, of course they act like crying babies and play the victim card. Truly pathetic..


----------



## surada

toastman said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read facts, like the facts that the Arabs were massing troops around Israel, making threats of annihalation and had closed the straits of Tiran, which Israel had said would be taken as an act of war. So Israel pre emptively attacked the Arabs (which is pathetic considering how small Israel is compared to the countries of beat by destroying all their air forces  )
> Since the Arabs lost the war, of course they act like crying babies and play the victim card. Truly pathetic..
Click to expand...


They weren't amassing troops around Israel.. The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months.. Nasser had asked for a summit to resolved the problem. Egyptian troops were deployed in Yemen to fight the civil war there.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seriously kicked some Arab ass in 1967, didn't they?
Click to expand...


They wanted more land and water. Read Moshe Dayan.

US taxpayers have paid thru the nose.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
Click to expand...

What territory specifically are you talking about that Israel ‘claims’ is theirs . Post a map and hiloge


surada said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> toastman said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> toastman said:
> 
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read facts, like the facts that the Arabs were massing troops around Israel, making threats of annihalation and had closed the straits of Tiran, which Israel had said would be taken as an act of war. So Israel pre emptively attacked the Arabs (which is pathetic considering how small Israel is compared to the countries of beat by destroying all their air forces  )
> Since the Arabs lost the war, of course they act like crying babies and play the victim card. Truly pathetic..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They weren't amassing troops around Israel.. The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months.. Nasser had asked for a summit to resolved the problem. Egyptian troops were deployed in Yemen to fight the civil war there.
Click to expand...

In the months prior to June 1967, tensions became dangerously heightened. Israel reiterated its post-1956 position that the closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping would be a cause for war (a casus belli). 
ejecting UNEF.










						Six-Day War - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




Any more questions ??


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
Click to expand...

Golly. This is weird. There was an Israel - Lebanon Armistice agreement signed in 1949.

Indeed, I found no indication of any representation by a "country of Pal'istan'' in that agreement. Weird, huh?

IL LB_490323_IsraeliLebaneseGeneralArmisticeAgreement.pdf (un.org) 

Indeed.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF*: You are once again confused. You are entirely off target.



Hollie said:


> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?





P F Tinmore said:


> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.


*(COMMENT)*

An Armistice agreement is a Military arrangement.  It is not a UN Document or a pronouncement by the UN.  It is written in a language acceptable to each political chain.

The purpose of an Armistice is the cessation of hostilities as a first step towards a peaceful resolution.  It only defines the Armistice Lines not the territorial disposition or conclude to any other political question.  

You specifically mentioned the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements:

◈  Article VI(9) • General Armistice Agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel.​The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.​​◈  Article V(2)  • General Armistice Agreement between Egypt and Israel.​The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.​
Having said that, once a permanent peace arrangement is agreed upon, the Armistice Agreement is no longer in force.  It is completely replaced.  You should also take notice that:

◈  Neither in the Preamble of the body of the *Peace Treaty (all thirty article) between Jordan and Israel*, the word "Palestine" is not mentioned.​
◈  In the Preamble and body of the *Treaty between Egypt and Israel*, the "Palestine" is only mentioned specifically as the "mandated territory of Palestine,"​​What is in force today, does not elude to an independent and self-governing state called Palestine.  You need to quit worrying about what happened more than a half-century ago, and come up to speed on what is relevant today.







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Once again, you are off the mark.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Palestine they are discussing is the Palestine subject to the Mandate and nothing further.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine not of a Mandate.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Citizenship Order did NOT grant citizenship to the Palestinians as Citizens of the State of Palestine.  The citizenship was to the Government of Palestine _(under the High Commissioner)_ and their Passport (British) so reflected that by identifying it a PALESTINE _(as in the Government of)_. Why was it done like this? Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory." Even the phony-baloney passport today says "Palestinian Authority."  You need to come up to speed.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

BLUF:  Off the Mark.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes to a point this is true _(intentional misinformation to deceive the discussion group)_.  But you didn't tell the whole story.  The Mandate transferred to the International Trustee System under *Article 77(1a) UN Charter*.

*Article 77*

*1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:
* a. territories now held under mandate;*





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seriously kicked some Arab ass in 1967, didn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They wanted more land and water. Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> US taxpayers have paid thru the nose.
Click to expand...

*
They wanted more land and water. *

Pretty sneaky tricking the Arabs into war, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are once again confused. You are entirely off target.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice agreement is a Military arrangement.  It is not a UN Document or a pronouncement by the UN.  It is written in a language acceptable to each political chain.
> 
> The purpose of an Armistice is the cessation of hostilities as a first step towards a peaceful resolution.  It only defines the Armistice Lines not the territorial disposition or conclude to any other political question.
> 
> You specifically mentioned the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements:
> 
> ◈  Article VI(9) • General Armistice Agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel.​The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.​​◈  Article V(2)  • General Armistice Agreement between Egypt and Israel.​The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.​
> Having said that, once a permanent peace arrangement is agreed upon, the Armistice Agreement is no longer in force.  It is completely replaced.  You should also take notice that:
> 
> ◈  Neither in the Preamble of the body of the *Peace Treaty (all thirty article) between Jordan and Israel*, the word "Palestine" is not mentioned.​
> ◈  In the Preamble and body of the *Treaty between Egypt and Israel*, the "Palestine" is only mentioned specifically as the "mandated territory of Palestine,"​​What is in force today, does not elude to an independent and self-governing state called Palestine.  You need to quit worrying about what happened more than a half-century ago, and come up to speed on what is relevant today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Of course all of that ducks my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ In the Preamble and body of the *Treaty between Egypt and Israel*, the "Palestine" is only mentioned specifically as the "mandated territory of Palestine,"


Interesting since the Mandate had been gone for three decades and they are still using that pejorative term.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Yes to a point this is true _(intentional misinformation to deceive the discussion group)_. But you didn't tell the whole story. The Mandate transferred to the International Trustee System under *Article 77(1a) UN Charter*.


And where was the UN when Palestine was being raped by Israel? Sitting around with their thumb up their ass like they have been for the last seven decades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."


Mandates had no territory.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."
> 
> 
> 
> Mandates had no territory.
Click to expand...


Neither does Palestine, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."
> 
> 
> 
> Mandates had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither does Palestine, eh?
Click to expand...

Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."
> 
> 
> 
> Mandates had no territory.
Click to expand...

 The Mandate did not require territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to a point this is true _(intentional misinformation to deceive the discussion group)_. But you didn't tell the whole story. The Mandate transferred to the International Trustee System under *Article 77(1a) UN Charter*.
> 
> 
> 
> And where was the UN when Palestine was being raped by Israel? Sitting around with their thumb up their ass like they have been for the last seven decades.
Click to expand...

Your characterization Is false and intended as misinformation


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: You are once again confused. You are entirely off target.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Armistice agreement is a Military arrangement.  It is not a UN Document or a pronouncement by the UN.  It is written in a language acceptable to each political chain.
> 
> The purpose of an Armistice is the cessation of hostilities as a first step towards a peaceful resolution.  It only defines the Armistice Lines not the territorial disposition or conclude to any other political question.
> 
> You specifically mentioned the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements:
> 
> ◈  Article VI(9) • General Armistice Agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel.​The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.​​◈  Article V(2)  • General Armistice Agreement between Egypt and Israel.​The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.​
> Having said that, once a permanent peace arrangement is agreed upon, the Armistice Agreement is no longer in force.  It is completely replaced.  You should also take notice that:
> 
> ◈  Neither in the Preamble of the body of the *Peace Treaty (all thirty article) between Jordan and Israel*, the word "Palestine" is not mentioned.​
> ◈  In the Preamble and body of the *Treaty between Egypt and Israel*, the "Palestine" is only mentioned specifically as the "mandated territory of Palestine,"​​What is in force today, does not elude to an independent and self-governing state called Palestine.  You need to quit worrying about what happened more than a half-century ago, and come up to speed on what is relevant today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course all of that ducks my post.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

Once again, you are the only one ducking anything. Rocco has done nothing but destroy everyone of your ridiculous posts. Honestly Tinmore, what are you getting by spreading lies and Palestinian propaganda? Nothing you say is even remotely true and to make matters worse for yourself, you have not proven A SINGLE one of your claims. 
I mean, don’t you get tired of having EVERY SINGLE one of your lies refuted???


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."
> 
> 
> 
> Mandates had no territory.
Click to expand...

Why is it that I can easily find information on the creation of every country in the world with just a few buttons, but nothing on Palestine?


----------



## Hollie

There are some real comedians in the territories occupied by the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves “Pal’istanians”. There was a one-liner about Abbas holding elections.











						17th year of a four-year term; Will Abbas hold Palestinian elections?
					

Originally elected for a four year term meant to end in 2009, the Palestinian President faces pressure to hold elections.




					m.jpost.com
				





Palestinians on Saturday marked the 16th anniversary of the second presidential election, which saw Mahmoud Abbas win 62.52% of the vote and become the second Palestinian Authority president after Yasser Arafat.

Abbas, now 85, was elected for a four-year term, which expired in 2009. Since then, the Palestinians have not been able to hold another presidential election, mainly due to the split between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip resulting from the dispute between Abbas’s Fatah faction and Hamas.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."
> 
> 
> 
> Mandates had no territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither does Palestine, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Tick tock.

The land for a future Palestine continues to shrink.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF*: You didn't ask a question. And my ost directly responds to the nonsense about the implications the Armistice Agreements make.



P F Tinmore said:


> Of course all of that ducks my post.






*(COMMENT)*

The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.  The Armistice played NO PART in the decision to include it.  My post pin-pointed why the Armistice simply did not matter.

It is the language and intent of the Treaties that makes all the difference.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.


The partition plan did not happen. It doesn't matter.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.
> 
> 
> 
> The partition plan did not happen. It doesn't matter.
Click to expand...


Yeah, the Arabs really fucked that up, didn't they?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* Oh the Partition Plan was executed, but the Arab League interfered with the process.



RoccoR said:


> The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.





P F Tinmore said:


> The partition plan did not happen. It doesn't matter.


*(COMMENT)*

The implementation of the Plan did not require the participation of the Arab Palestinian Party.  Further, the implementation was made all the more real when the UN Department of Public Information Press and Publications Bureau made available the *official press release* _(PAL/169 17 May 1948)_ that said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  In fact* the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."​
Further, the Resolution of 29 November 1947 stated:



			
				Part I said:
			
		

> F.  ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS​
> *When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged* in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
> SOURCE:  *A/RES/181 (II)*



It is customary in matters such as this, that when one party or the other (in this case "either" the Arab or Jewish party) has a grievance, that an appeal or adjudication alternative be afforded air such a grievance.  Chapter 4(2), "Any dispute relating to the application or the interpretation of this declaration shall be referred, at the request of either party, to the International Court of Justice, unless the parties agree to another mode of settlement."  As is usual with the Arab Palestinian, instead of taking the option of the dispute resolution process, they immediately jump to Armed Conflict.

I've heard you repeat this claim that the recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) had not been executed.  Well, I'm here to tell you that it has.  There is documentation from official outlets that is has been executed, but no official source outlets denying the UN Palestine Commission stance.  And you will notice that almost every single important resolution on the "Question of Palestine" cites A/RES/181 (II) as a reference - openly demonstrates that it still has some relevance.

It is more likely the case that the pro-Arab Palestinians find it important and somewhat necessary to discredit this view. 

The odd thing is, that if the Arab Palestinians had accepted the peace and the Allocated Partition portion in the Plan, there would probably be no doubt that the Arab Palestinians would have a state today and sovereign control over a vast majority of the allocation if not all.  BUT, they chose conflict. And there is no question as to how well that decision worked out for them.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The implementation of the Plan did not require the participation of the Arab Palestinian Party.


Britain and the Security Council said it did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact* the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."


And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

*You duck!*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact* the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."
> 
> 
> 
> And when I ask you what parts were implemented...
> 
> *You duck!*
Click to expand...

You’re getting rather frantic. Try supporting your claims as opposed to the usual “... because I say“ routines.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact* the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."
> 
> 
> 
> And when I ask you what parts were implemented...
> 
> *You duck!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re getting rather frantic. Try supporting your claims as opposed to the usual “... because I say“ routines.
Click to expand...

Do you know the articles in Resolution 181?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact* the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."
> 
> 
> 
> And when I ask you what parts were implemented...
> 
> *You duck!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re getting rather frantic. Try supporting your claims as opposed to the usual “... because I say“ routines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know the articles in Resolution 181?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Do you know the articles in 181?

What other history do you want to rewrite because the Arabs-Moslems failed so often at guiding events that shaped their future.

Take responsibility for your failures.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* Oh, that is BS and you know it.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact* the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*."
> 
> 
> 
> And when I ask you what parts were implemented...
> 
> *You duck!*
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

First off, A/RES/181 (II) was a recommendation and not a mandate.  So, your question is purely a quandary.  Further, the *Arab Higher Committee totally rejected the recommendation*, so they cannot come back after the fact and try some tired-ass attempt at enforcement.

The establishment of self-governing institutions:
• Finance and Banking system
• Postal and telecommunications system

Tasks Confronting Committee in the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly


a. The Commission in this preliminary stage of its work has undertaken a thorough and detailed examination of the provisions of the General Assembly’s resolution, with particular reference to its implications and the tasks involved in implementing its recommendations. The Commission realizes the enormity of the responsibility entrusted to it and harbors no illusions concerning the formidable obstacles it must surmount (including anticipated Arab resistance).
b. Among the major tasks involved in giving effect to the Assembly’s recommendations are the following:

(i) arranging for the progressive transfer of administrative authority from the Mandatory Power to the Commission and the establishment of Provisional Councils of Government;
(ii) supervision of the functioning of the Provisional Councils of Government, including the maintenance of pubic order in the transitional period following the termination of the Mandate;
(iii) delimitation of frontiers of the Arab and Jewish States and the City of Jerusalem;
(iv) exercise of political and military control over the erased militia in each of the projected States, including selection of the high command;
(v) the preparatory work in connection with the establishment of the Economic Union, including the creation of the Preparatory Economic Commission and the maintenance of essential economic services in the transitional period;
(vi) negotiations on the allocation and distribution of assets;
(vii) maintenance of administration and essential public services following the termination of the Mandate;
(viii) preparation for the application of the United Nations Statute to the City of Jerusalem; and
(ix) protection of Holy Places.

In the *First Monthly Report to the Security Council*, the key milestones were listed and eventually completed by the timeline established.

General Financial Position and Statement of Assets and Liabilities including the hand-off of Bearer Bonds.

By the end of March 

Future government of Palestine/UN Palestine Commission - Food supply in Palestine, Consideration of press dispatches, Health services, Police force for Jerusalem, Oil pipeline concession, Various ommunications with UK - Summary record1948/03/23








03/23/1948​A/AC.21/P/35UN Palestine Commission - Daily News Summary

The orderly transfer of the duties and responsibilities of the Palestine Currency Board.

And it goes on and on.  And some time ago, when you said I danced around the subject, *I forwarded you the link to the summary of accomplishments* and the Checklist of certain tasks incident to the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly on Palestine. Working paper prepared by the Secretariat, 9 January. Lists certain tasks under various headings, such as Administration and Legal, Economic and, Financial, etc., and records significant dates.

Now, I will grant you that many of the accomplishments of the UN Palestine Commission from 9 January to 17 May 1948 were setback, significantly altered, or undermined as a result of the act of aggression and armed conflict by the Arab League Forces on 15 May 1948.

The key however is the fact that I don't think you are the least bit qualified in challenging the criteria used in the deliberations that lead to the ultimate outcome of  A/RES/273 (III) of 11 May 1949 *Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations*. Although Admission to the UN is not in itself a requirement for statehood, it does recognize Israel as a "peace-loving State."  This is an entirely different level above that accorded to either the Gaza Government or the Ramallah Government:



			
				UN General Assembly said:
			
		

> Decides  to  accord  to  _Palestine  non-member  observer  State  status  in  the United  Nations_,  without  prejudice  to  the  acquired  rights,  privileges  and  role  of  the *Palestine  Liberation  Organization  in  the  United  Nations  as  the  representative  of  the Palestinian people*, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;
> Source: * {LINK} Status of Palestine*  A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012.




Israel did all the hard work in putting together a functional government with all the necessary self-governing institutions to make independence a reality.  This is an accomplishment that the Arab Palestinians have not been able to do in more than seven decades.  The Arab Palestinians could not do it in 1948 any more than they can do it today.

And don't give out that crap the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinians were being held back by the Israelis.  The Security Barriers were not always there, the border fencing was not always there.  And the Israelis were NOT the first middle eastern power to occupy the disputed territories.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Book Review: Not in Kansas Anymore: Academic Freedom in Palestinian Universities
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

resolution 181 security coulcil


RoccoR said:


> Tasks Confronting Committee in the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly


Perhaps you did not understand my post. What parts of resolution were implemented?

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

*You duck!* 


*Chapter 3*

_Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations_​
   1.    Citizenship.  Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem *shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.  * 

This means that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state with full civil and political rights.

When is that going to happen?


----------



## Hollie

Pals behaving like pals. 


*PA incitement led to recent murder of Israeli woman*
Itamar Marcus  | Jan 10, 2021








						PA incitement led to recent murder of Israeli woman | PMW Analysis
					

PA spread libel that terrorist prisoner Kamal Abu Wa’er died because of Israel's “premeditated deliberate medical neglect”




					palwatch.org
				




*Murderer explained he was “influenced” to murder Esther Horgan “by the death of a security prisoner he knew”*
*PA spread libel that terrorist prisoner Kamal Abu Wa’er died because of Israel's “premeditated deliberate medical neglect”*
*PA’s PM Shtayyeh blamed Israel, claiming the cause of death of the terrorist prisoner was “deliberate medical neglect”*
*Fatah added: “Not medical neglect, but rather medical murder”*
*Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr accused Israel “of murdering prisoner Abu Wa’er by abandoning him as prey to cancer… the medical crime… was committed premeditatedly by the [Israeli] Prison Service.”*
The Palestinian terrorist who brutally murdered an Israeli mother of six, Esther Horgan, last month, told Israeli interrogators that he “decided to carry out a terrorist attack after he was influenced – inter alia – by the death of a security prisoner he knew, Kamal Abu Wa’er,” who died in prison from cancer. [Israel Security Services, Israeli Government Press Office, Jan. 4, 2021].


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> When is that going to happen?



At the next Pally elections?


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When is that going to happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the next Pally elections?
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with Palestinian elections.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* Oh, that is BS as well.



RoccoR said:


> Tasks Confronting Committee in the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly





P F Tinmore said:


> Perhaps you did not understand my post. What parts of resolution were implemented?
> 
> And when I ask you what parts were implemented...
> 
> *You duck!*





P F Tinmore said:


> *Chapter 3*
> 
> _Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations_​



*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians rejected the acceptance of their part of the partition.  If they had accepted they would have had the citizenship to the state they assumed independence through self-determination.

Israel was not a party to any international conventions.  The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) was not a binding obligation or international convention, never went into force as law, and was past AFTER Israel became a State.  In fact, with the exception of the Hague Regulation, none of the Universal Human Rights Instruments went into force until 1950.  Furthermore, the  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) did not go into force until 1976.

◈  Israel assumed all financial obligations pasted-on from the Government of Palestine.  ​​◈  Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship at the time of the termination of the Mandate and Independence of Israel.​​◈  Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, becoming citizens and residents of Israel, were not granted full civil and political rights. ​
So I ask (again) On 15 May 1948, what were the recognized "full civil and political rights," the Arab Palestinians claimed the citizens of the new State of Israel were denied?

Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights.   So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ben Thomson

The Jews are not the pure innocent victims they like to portray themselves as that's for sure. On a side note the first major terrorist attack in the Mideast was carried out by the Jewish terrorist group Irgun, when they bombed the King David Hotel in '46. Don't get me started on the U.S.S Liberty...Historian on King David Hotel bombing: 'It was an act of terror'


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights. So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.


750,000 Palestinian refugees. Their normal residence was in territory that became Israel.


----------



## toastman

Ben Thomson said:


> The Jews are not the pure innocent victims they like to portray themselves as that's for sure. On a side note the first major terrorist attack in the Mideast was carried out by the Jewish terrorist group Irgun, when they bombed the King David Hotel in '46. Don't get me started on the U.S.S Liberty...Historian on King David Hotel bombing: 'It was an act of terror'


So? What’s your point? Who said Jews portray themselves as innocent victims ?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights. So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.
> 
> 
> 
> 750,000 Palestinian refugees. Their normal residence was in territory that became Israel.
Click to expand...

Right of return is never going to happen. Refugees or not, they ain’t coming to Israel so you can stop whining about them ..


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights. So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.
> 
> 
> 
> 750,000 Palestinian refugees. Their normal residence was in territory that became Israel.
Click to expand...

False premise. Your phony number of so-called Pal refugees is a farce. The original number of Arab occupiers who were uprooted as a result of the Arab war is, according to many sources, half of your number. You have made no case that any of those who fled upon the onset of the Arab initiated war were occupying land now part of Israel are still alive.

You heed to do a better job of assembling phony numbers.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Ben Thomson,  et al,

*BLUF in Thumbnail:* No country, connected with the influences of the post-WWII Middle East is without some fault. And the Jewish leadership, from the inception of the Arab Palestinian Black Hand _(1930 • first major terrorist group in the region)_ to the founding of The Irgun _(AKA: IZL or Itzel • 1931)_ _(probably the second major terrorist group in the region)_ was not perfect. The Irgun was a splinter group formed by cell commanders off the newly formed Haganah _(embryonic Paramilitaries • 1920)_. The Haganah was formed in response to the Fedayeen _(suicide groups)_ behind the 1920 Riots calling for Arab independence, which were backed by prominent Arab Leaders of the day_ (for example → __Haj Amin al-Husseini and Izz al-Din al-Qassam)_.



Ben Thomson said:


> The Jews are not the pure innocent victims they like to portray themselves as that's for sure. On a side note the first major terrorist attack in the Mideast was carried out by the Jewish terrorist group Irgun, when they bombed the King David Hotel in '46. Don't get me started on the U.S.S Liberty...Historian on King David Hotel bombing: 'It was an act of terror'


*(COMMENT)*

It is true, that the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) Navy intentionally attacked the USS Liberty (ATGR-5), a very lightly armed Naval Electronics Surveillance (SIGINT) Ship, inflicting heavy damage and severe casualties (137-WIA and 37-KIA).  And no matter what set of theories you subscribe to, this incident will always be a black mark on Israeli History.   While many people have tried to explain it, that stain will take a century or more of cleaning before it's forgotten.

Shortly after Israeli Independence, the Israeli government "ordered" that the Irgun to be disbanded.  Even within the Israeli Cabinet, Jewish Agency and the Haganah, there was no support for the type and kind of radical operations and mission that the Irgun was known to initiate.

_* ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪  BREAK  ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪*_​

American and Israeli politics are like a dynamic IP address.  While it is always 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, the political policy connections you make can change from one day to the next.  What most people have a tendency to overlook, is that what is seen coming out of the White House or Capitol Building is driven by the impact of the great utilitarian needs of the various party influences and leaders.  This is not so different from the impact of the responses coming from the Knesset and Beit Aghion.   And these processes have a huge impact on the perception of the various critical issue of these times.  Similarly, the Quartet on the Middle East_ (the UN US, EU, and Russia)_ are just as prone to these same forces; and just as likely to make decisions of the day that on a follow-up examination next year, will be found at fault.  But at the end of the day, politically peaceful outcomes can only emerge from the agreements between the parties in conflict.

No one is without some blame.  All we can do is try to NOT make it any worse.

_Just My Thought,_





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip began a campaign to expropriate state-owned lands near the Rafah border crossing, as part of a project to expand the crossing, leaving many citizens homeless and jobless.










						Hamas forcibly expels residents from their homes in Rafah
					

The Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip began a campaign to expropriate state-owned lands near the Rafah border crossing, as part of a project to expand the crossing, leaving many citizens homeless and jobless.




					www.al-monitor.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF:  *No matter what the figure maybe, this is an extremely unreasonable issue to even give consideration. And what is more powerful to the outcome is that the Arab Palestinians won't even consider possible alternatives to this issue.



RoccoR said:


> Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights. So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.





P F Tinmore said:


> 750,000 Palestinian refugees. Their normal residence was in territory that became Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

There were many, many reasons for these streams of refugees, displacement, and movement.   Again, in 1948, the Binding Laws, Covenants, and Treaties that address these issues were nonexistent.   The "Right of Return" (as the Arab Palestinians refer to it) did not exist then and to a large extent is not now.  While Article 12 of the International Covenant on *Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) has an impact, it was subject to exceptions.  Clearing the table of all other hidden agendas, political motivations, and requirements to remove populations from areas of hostilities and combat, there are still  important exceptions:

◈  Article 24 • Non-retroactivity ratione personae • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court​1. No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the entry into force of the Statute.  The CCPR entered into force in 1976.​2.  In  the  event  of  a  change  in  the  law  applicable  to  a  given  case  prior  to  a  final  judgement,  the  law  more  favourable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted shall apply.​​❖  It does not matter as to whether you are discussing the 18 Act of Aggression (1948) by the Arab League - or - the Six-Day War (1967), you cannot apply criminal sanctions retroactively on Israel.​​◈  Article 12 •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)​Rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.​​❖  Israel has the right to sift-out any border-crosser know to have been a member of any Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters that engaged in "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  This would weed-out nearly every Gazan, and near 85% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.​​◈  Article 20  •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​❖  This would apply to nearly thousands and thousands of those Hostile Arab Palestinians that advocated escalations in confrontations.​​◈  Article Ic3  Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees • Resolution 2198 ( XXI )​Shall cease to apply to any person who has acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality;​​❖  How many Arabs in Palestine or the Gaza Strip claim to be "Palestinian Citizens."​​Even if you attempt to apply contemporary law and obligations to the situation, Israel has some pretty persuasive arguments in defense of its actions.  Now, is Israel always in the right? *(RHETORIC) *NO_!_ Clearly, some of the actions had a political hidden motivator. And then there is the twin issues of "Defensible Borders" and the undependable posture of the Arab Palestinians to keep the peace.

No Dancing around your questions and implications.  This is not the first time we've discussed this...






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *No matter what the figure maybe, this is an extremely unreasonable issue to even give consideration. And what is more powerful to the outcome is that the Arab Palestinians won't even consider possible alternatives to this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights. So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 750,000 Palestinian refugees. Their normal residence was in territory that became Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There were many, many reasons for these streams of refugees, displacement, and movement.   Again, in 1948, the Binding Laws, Covenants, and Treaties that address these issues were nonexistent.   The "Right of Return" (as the Arab Palestinians refer to it) did not exist then and to a large extent is not now.  While Article 12 of the International Covenant on *Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) has an impact, it was subject to exceptions.  Clearing the table of all other hidden agendas, political motivations, and requirements to remove populations from areas of hostilities and combat, there are still  important exceptions:
> 
> ◈  Article 24 • Non-retroactivity ratione personae • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court​1. No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the entry into force of the Statute.  The CCPR entered into force in 1976.​2.  In  the  event  of  a  change  in  the  law  applicable  to  a  given  case  prior  to  a  final  judgement,  the  law  more  favourable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted shall apply.​​❖  It does not matter as to whether you are discussing the 18 Act of Aggression (1948) by the Arab League - or - the Six-Day War (1967), you cannot apply criminal sanctions retroactively on Israel.​​◈  Article 12 •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)​Rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.​​❖  Israel has the right to sift-out any border-crosser know to have been a member of any Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters that engaged in "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  This would weed-out nearly every Gazan, and near 85% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.​​◈  Article 20  •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​❖  This would apply to nearly thousands and thousands of those Hostile Arab Palestinians that advocated escalations in confrontations.​​◈  Article Ic3  Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees • Resolution 2198 ( XXI )​Shall cease to apply to any person who has acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality;​​❖  How many Arabs in Palestine or the Gaza Strip claim to be "Palestinian Citizens."​​Even if you attempt to apply contemporary law and obligations to the situation, Israel has some pretty persuasive arguments in defense of its actions.  Now, is Israel always in the right? *(RHETORIC) *NO_!_ Clearly, some of the actions had a political hidden motivator. And then there is the twin issues of "Defensible Borders" and the undependable posture of the Arab Palestinians to keep the peace.
> 
> No Dancing around your questions and implications.  This is not the first time we've discussed this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are doing your best to wriggle away from my original post.
-----------------
*Chapter 3*

_Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations_


   1.    Citizenship.  Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem *shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.  *

This means that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state with full civil and political rights.
-------------------
Why should the Palestinians give up their legal rights just to make Israel happy? Israel has made its bed now it must sleep in it.

You can say refugee, but I was really talking about the rule of nationality and state succession. Resolution 194 was based on current international law.


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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ❖ How many Arabs in Palestine or the Gaza Strip claim to be "Palestinian Citizens."


Palestine is Palestine. Palestinians are Palestinians. The status of those terms depends on who you ask.


----------



## Mindful

The use of the name Palestine, was always in reference to the Jews, and Arabs were Arabs, it’s a relatively modern theme that Arabs became Palestinians.

Before the creation of Israel, it was actually the Jews who were referred to as Palestinians, not the Arabs. As a matter of fact, Arabs did not accept being called “Palestinians” because they did not want to be associated with Jews or with the British Mandate for Palestine.

“The Arabs who lived in the region became “Palestinians” only after the war of 1967. Before that, Judea and Samaria, together with Jerusalem, were occupied by Jordan, and Gaza was occupied by Egypt — but not a single Arab thought of himself as a “Palestinian”. Moreover, to call an Arab a “Palestinian” would mean to insult him.
“We are not Jews, we are Arabs”, they used to say in answer.

“Until the late 60s the word “Palestinian” was commonly, unanimously and globally associated with Jews. The world knew: Palestine is just another name for Israel (or Judaea), like Kemet was just another name for Egypt. And they had very good reasons to say it.





__





						“Palestine”, What’s in a name? by Allan Ellison – Australian Jewish Association
					





					jewishassociation.org.au


----------



## Mindful

^ Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST, The journal of the Zionist Organisation of America was NEW PALESTINE
The Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK
The Israel Electric Company´s original name was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY
There was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and the PALESTINE SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA
All these were JEWISH ORGANISATIONS, organised and run by JEWS.
In America, the Anthem of the Zionist youngsters sang, “PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE”, “PALESTINE SCOUT SONG” and “PALESTINE SPRING SONG”.
Arabs knew that the term “Palestinian” is the synonym of a “Jew”, that is why they felt offended.


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## Mindful

Ben Thomson said:


> The Jews are not the pure innocent victims they like to portray themselves as that's for sure.



For sure.

I’ve never seen myself as a victim.


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## surada

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What territory specifically are you talking about that Israel ‘claims’ is theirs . Post a map and hiloge
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
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> surada said:
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> toastman said:
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> surada said:
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> toastman said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> toastman said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> RoccoR said:
> 
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> 
> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read facts, like the facts that the Arabs were massing troops around Israel, making threats of annihalation and had closed the straits of Tiran, which Israel had said would be taken as an act of war. So Israel pre emptively attacked the Arabs (which is pathetic considering how small Israel is compared to the countries of beat by destroying all their air forces  )
> Since the Arabs lost the war, of course they act like crying babies and play the victim card. Truly pathetic..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They weren't amassing troops around Israel.. The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months.. Nasser had asked for a summit to resolved the problem. Egyptian troops were deployed in Yemen to fight the civil war there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the months prior to June 1967, tensions became dangerously heightened. Israel reiterated its post-1956 position that the closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping would be a cause for war (a casus belli).
> ejecting UNEF.
> 
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> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any more questions ??
Click to expand...


The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months before Israel attacked Egypt ,, and in the weeks prior Nasser had called for a summit to resolve the situation.


----------



## surada

Mindful said:


> ^ Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST, The journal of the Zionist Organisation of America was NEW PALESTINE
> The Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK
> The Israel Electric Company´s original name was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY
> There was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and the PALESTINE SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA
> All these were JEWISH ORGANISATIONS, organised and run by JEWS.
> In America, the Anthem of the Zionist youngsters sang, “PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE”, “PALESTINE SCOUT SONG” and “PALESTINE SPRING SONG”.
> Arabs knew that the term “Palestinian” is the synonym of a “Jew”, that is why they felt offended.



In 1950 there were nearly 50,000 Palestinians living in Saudi Arabia.. Many worked in my town and some went to our Church.


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## surada

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ In the Preamble and body of the *Treaty between Egypt and Israel*, the "Palestine" is only mentioned specifically as the "mandated territory of Palestine,"
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting since the Mandate had been gone for three decades and they are still using that pejorative term.
Click to expand...











						Palestine: documents
					

Documents on Israel/Palestine A large collection of historical documents, from the Balfour Declaration of 1917 to the peace process of the early 2000s, can be found at the Avalon Project website (Yale University Law School).  Documents relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Another large...




					al-bab.com
				




*Documents on Israel/Palestine*
A large collection of historical documents, from the Balfour Declaration of 1917 to the peace process of the early 2000s, can be found at the Avalon Project website (Yale University Law School).


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Golly. This is weird. There was an Israel - Lebanon Armistice agreement signed in 1949.
> 
> Indeed, I found no indication of any representation by a "country of Pal'istan'' in that agreement. Weird, huh?
> 
> IL LB_490323_IsraeliLebaneseGeneralArmisticeAgreement.pdf (un.org)
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...


*The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter*


			The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter
		



Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab …
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to …
The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from …
See full list on avalon.law.yale.edu


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## Hollie

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Golly. This is weird. There was an Israel - Lebanon Armistice agreement signed in 1949.
> 
> Indeed, I found no indication of any representation by a "country of Pal'istan'' in that agreement. Weird, huh?
> 
> IL LB_490323_IsraeliLebaneseGeneralArmisticeAgreement.pdf (un.org)
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter*
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab …
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to …
> The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from …
> 
> See full list on avalon.law.yale.edu
Click to expand...

I not clear what relevance that charter has with regard to Israel establishing armistice agreements with neighboring Arab nations.


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## surada

Ben Thomson said:


> The Jews are not the pure innocent victims they like to portray themselves as that's for sure. On a side note the first major terrorist attack in the Mideast was carried out by the Jewish terrorist group Irgun, when they bombed the King David Hotel in '46. Don't get me started on the U.S.S Liberty...Historian on King David Hotel bombing: 'It was an act of terror'



So was the firebombing of the Haifa refinery.

So was Operation Susannah .. The Lavon Affair eventually lead to the Suez Crisis.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Golly. This is weird. There was an Israel - Lebanon Armistice agreement signed in 1949.
> 
> Indeed, I found no indication of any representation by a "country of Pal'istan'' in that agreement. Weird, huh?
> 
> IL LB_490323_IsraeliLebaneseGeneralArmisticeAgreement.pdf (un.org)
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter*
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab …
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to …
> The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from …
> 
> See full list on avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I not clear what relevance that charter has with regard to Israel establishing armistice agreements with neighboring Arab nations.
Click to expand...

So, what *did* the Armistice Agreements have to do with Palestine?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the territory under the authority of the earlier mandate, was known coincidently as the ''Mandate for Palestine''.
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements were in 1949. The Mandate left Palestine in 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Golly. This is weird. There was an Israel - Lebanon Armistice agreement signed in 1949.
> 
> Indeed, I found no indication of any representation by a "country of Pal'istan'' in that agreement. Weird, huh?
> 
> IL LB_490323_IsraeliLebaneseGeneralArmisticeAgreement.pdf (un.org)
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter*
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab …
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to …
> The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from …
> 
> See full list on avalon.law.yale.edu
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I not clear what relevance that charter has with regard to Israel establishing armistice agreements with neighboring Arab nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what *did* the Armistice Agreements have to do with Palestine?
Click to expand...

Indeed.


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## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel. 











						Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
					

Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible


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## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF: * I gave you the answer as to the "Why" and the "How."  You just don't like the answer.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are doing your best to wriggle away from my original post.
> -----------------
> *Chapter 3*
> 
> _Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations_
> 
> 1.    Citizenship.  Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem *shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.  *
> 
> This means that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state with full civil and political rights.
> -------------------
> Why should the Palestinians give up their legal rights just to make Israel happy? Israel has made its bed now it must sleep in it.
> 
> You can say refugee, but I was really talking about the rule of nationality and state succession. Resolution 194 was based on current international law.


*(COMMENT)*

There was absolutely NO REASON to create a country that would have to immediately fight:

◈  A civil War within its boundaries (fifth Columnist).​...................................*AND*​◈  An International Armed Conflict from the Arab League.​
And the alternative was for the Mandate to terminate with the Arab Palestinians _(including aid from the Arab League States)_ to crush the original Mandate to create a Jewish National Home.

*Q* (PF Tinmore):   Why should the Palestinians give up their legal rights just to make Israel happy?​&​*A* (RoccoR):  This is an incorrect proposition that founded on the incorrect assumption forming the basis of the central argument.​​✦  WHY?  Because the Arab Palestinians DID NOT "give up their rights*!*"  The Arab Palestinians, thinking that they could crush the Israeli forces and take the entirety of the territory and nullify the Partition Plan, opted to settle the conflict through other than peaceful means.  They threw away their "Rights" _(whatever they were in the mid-20th Century)_.  Not succeeding in crushing the embryonic Jewish State, the Arab Palestinians embarked on a plan to open an atmosphere of "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the Jewish citizenry; that would put such domestic pressure on the new government as to weaken it intimidation, to achieve their of political aims that they could not secure in any other peaceful measure.​​✦  THE SHIFTING SAND OF WHY:  As humanity evolved, and the "Rights" of people were articulated and codified, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have been consistently trying to apply newer concepts _(some binding and some not binding)_ retroactively upon the continuing conflict.  The HoAP have been trying to reinvent themselves as "Freedom Fighters" seeking justice through the righteousness in "the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle. The HoAP have formed numerous organizational campaigns through the efforts of various Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  These campaigns have become extremely lucrative, through donor contribution and aid programs, for various leaders over the years.  While factions like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) are most noted for launching thousands of rockets and mortars into Israel, kidnapping and murder of Israelis, organizations like the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) are known for the Coast Road Attack that killed a busload of innocent men women and children, who were responsible for the Attack on the Olympic Games in Munich, involved in the highjacking of numerous Commercial Airliners, etc, they still maintain the same justification for violence.​
•  Palestinian Arab Official Admits “Killing Israelis is not Terror, it’s Legitimate”
*•  Palestinian Activist Yaser Mazhar Calls on Palestinians to Carry out Suicide Bombings in Israel: We Long for Bus Bombings *
•  Fatah: Murdering children is "legitimate human struggle" - when killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis
•  The Hamas terror group in Gaza is attempting to salvage its public image after one of its leading members was caught on camera telling Palestinians to “attack every Jew on planet earth.”
•  Hamas Leader in Gaza Threatens His Group Can Strike Tel Aviv 'For Six Consecutive Months' 
•  Palestinian children's TV show features poem promoting child martyrdom
•  We in the Fatah Movement, regarding the ‎struggle, the resistance, and the rules of engagement – we are open. We are prepared ‎to sacrifice not [just] the last of-. We will sacrifice our children.
✦  THE APPEARENCE:   The face of the HoAP is the makeup on the pig.  It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.  It wants to paint the picture that the Israelis have been oppressive and that the Israelis need to put their foot on the neck of the HoAP in order to secure the Israeli Regime. The HoAP camouflage the fact that Israel is a sovereign state in its own right, and that the HoAP represent various factions of Arab Palestinians outside the territorial integrity of Israel, attempting to break in.​
This is merely a thumbnail caption to one single aspect of the dispute.






Most Respectfully,
R


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> toastman said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What territory specifically are you talking about that Israel ‘claims’ is theirs . Post a map and hiloge
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> surada said:
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> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> Click to expand...
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> RoccoR said:
> 
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> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read facts, like the facts that the Arabs were massing troops around Israel, making threats of annihalation and had closed the straits of Tiran, which Israel had said would be taken as an act of war. So Israel pre emptively attacked the Arabs (which is pathetic considering how small Israel is compared to the countries of beat by destroying all their air forces  )
> Since the Arabs lost the war, of course they act like crying babies and play the victim card. Truly pathetic..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They weren't amassing troops around Israel.. The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months.. Nasser had asked for a summit to resolved the problem. Egyptian troops were deployed in Yemen to fight the civil war there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the months prior to June 1967, tensions became dangerously heightened. Israel reiterated its post-1956 position that the closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping would be a cause for war (a casus belli).
> ejecting UNEF.
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> Six-Day War - Wikipedia
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> en.m.wikipedia.org
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> Any more questions ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months before Israel attacked Egypt ,, and in the weeks prior Nasser had called for a summit to resolve the situation.
Click to expand...


Poor misunderstood peaceful Nasser.


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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.



When we look at the issue of armed resistance broadly, according to ‘Additional Protocol 1’ to the ‘Geneva Conventions’ (1949) all Peoples are entitled, under international humanitarian law, to the right to armed national liberation struggles. The Palestinian people were even mentioned by named in ‘United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 2787’ in 1971:

“[The Resolution] Confirms the legality of the peoples’ struggle for self-determination and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably in southern Africa and in particular that of the peoples of Zimbabwe, Namibia, Angola, Mozambique and Guinea (Bissau), as well as of the Palestinian people, by all available means consistent with the Charter of the United Nations.”

It is also clear that according to International Law, tracing back to UN General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 3314, in 1974, that it was unacceptable for any State to engage in military occupations of foreign territory.

On November 29, 1978, with ‘United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24’, the right to armed struggle was again reaffirmed, as it was stated that the body recognised; “…the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle”. This legitimate and defensible right under international law, again confirmed in UNGA resolution 37/43 in 1982, is not in line therefore with any reasonable definition of terrorism.

To deny Palestinians their right to resist a foreign settler-colonialism occupying force, means that you are arguing against International Law. This is not a matter of opinion.



Why do you always pimp Israeli talking points?


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## surada

Hollie said:


> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible



Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
Click to expand...


*Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *

LOL!

What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?


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## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *
> 
> LOL!
> 
> What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?
Click to expand...

With what Israel has stolen and mooched, Haiti would be a wealthy country.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
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> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *
> 
> LOL!
> 
> What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With what Israel has stolen and mooched, Haiti would be a wealthy country.
Click to expand...


Nah, Haiti would still be a shithole.

Pally lover whining about mooching.....priceless!


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## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *
> 
> LOL!
> 
> What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?
Click to expand...


They get about  400% less than the Israelis and before that the ratio was 10000% less.

The Palestinians can't do business without an Israeli middle man.. The Golan cannot sell its apples without an Israeli middle man. BTW.. Bibi just announced another 800 Jewish only homes being built in the occupied West Bank. 

Do you ever give much thought to decency or justice?

*The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …


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## surada

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *
> 
> LOL!
> 
> What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With what Israel has stolen and mooched, Haiti would be a wealthy country.
Click to expand...


Israel by their own accounts is successful and wealthy yet they get 500 times more welfare than Haiti which is of comparable size.


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## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *
> 
> LOL!
> 
> What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They get about  400% less than the Israelis and before that the ratio was 10000% less.
> 
> The Palestinians can't do business without an Israeli middle man.. The Golan cannot sell its apples without an Israeli middle man. BTW.. Bibi just announced another 800 Jewish only homes being built in the occupied West Bank.
> 
> Do you ever give much thought to decency or justice?
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
Click to expand...


*They get about 400% less than the Israelis *

So they pay welfare instead of receiving it?

*The Palestinians can't do business without an Israeli middle man.. *

Yeah, lauching terror attacks has consequences.

*BTW.. Bibi just announced another 800 Jewish only homes being built in the occupied West Bank.*

Excellent!

*Do you ever give much thought to decency or justice?*

I do.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

surada said:


> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …





And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.

That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pals. Corruption, fraud and maintaining the Islamic terrorist gee-had is so expensive, they were expecting Israel would supply the Wuhan virus vaccine, you know, for free. That would allow the Pal terrorists to devote more of their welfare money to attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians hope for vaccines by March, knock Israel for not providing them
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramallah appears to claim Israel should ensure Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are vaccinated, but later acknowledges PA also responsible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money .. Look at the budget. Israel has gotten the lion's share of US foreign aid for 60 years.. Compare them to Haiti in population and Haiti gets a pittance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israelis shouldn't talk about welfare money ..  *
> 
> LOL!
> 
> What percentage of the Palestinian's GDP is welfare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They get about  400% less than the Israelis and before that the ratio was 10000% less.
> 
> The Palestinians can't do business without an Israeli middle man.. The Golan cannot sell its apples without an Israeli middle man. BTW.. Bibi just announced another 800 Jewish only homes being built in the occupied West Bank.
> 
> Do you ever give much thought to decency or justice?
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They get about 400% less than the Israelis *
> 
> So they pay welfare instead of receiving it?
> 
> *The Palestinians can't do business without an Israeli middle man.. *
> 
> Yeah, lauching terror attacks has consequences.
> 
> *BTW.. Bibi just announced another 800 Jewish only homes being built in the occupied West Bank.*
> 
> Excellent!
> 
> *Do you ever give much thought to decency or justice?*
> 
> I do.
Click to expand...


The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in. They were broken from their suffering during WW2 and Hitler's demonizing and killing them.. As soon as they arrived in Palestine they began to abuse the Arab Palestinians just as they had been abused.

*The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in.



Palestine wasn't a country. Still isn't a country.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

surada said:


> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in. They were broken from their suffering during WW2 and Hitler's demonizing and killing them.. As soon as they arrived in Palestine they began to abuse the Arab Palestinians just as they had been abused.




Is that what you learned at the madrassa in whatever Islamic shit hole you come from?

It is a lie.


----------



## surada

Dogmaphobe said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.
> 
> That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.
Click to expand...


All the Avalon Papers refer to Palestine. They were called Palestinians when Israel  tried to deport the rest of them to KSA in 1951. They were called Palestinians when they attended my church in 1952. This is an ugly piece of theft and apartheid. The Jews have suffered  so much.. they shouldn't be doing this.

I would expect more decency and humanity.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a country. Still isn't a country.
Click to expand...


LOL.. neither was Israel. It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what *did* the Armistice Agreements have to do with Palestine?



The agreements with Israel?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a country. Still isn't a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL.. neither was Israel. It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.
Click to expand...


*LOL.. neither was Israel. *

And now Israel is and Palestine still isn't.

*It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.*

Which years?


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a country. Still isn't a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL.. neither was Israel. It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *LOL.. neither was Israel. *
> 
> And now Israel is and Palestine still isn't.
> 
> *It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.*
> 
> Which years?
Click to expand...


From 500 BC until 1948. Do you remember the olive  trees and almond trees and the pomegranates?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When we look at the issue of armed resistance broadly, according to ‘Additional Protocol 1’ to the ‘Geneva Conventions’ (1949) all Peoples are entitled, under international humanitarian law, to the right to armed national liberation struggles. The Palestinian people were even mentioned by named in ‘United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 2787’ in 1971:
> 
> “[The Resolution] Confirms the legality of the peoples’ struggle for self-determination and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably in southern Africa and in particular that of the peoples of Zimbabwe, Namibia, Angola, Mozambique and Guinea (Bissau), as well as of the Palestinian people, by all available means consistent with the Charter of the United Nations.”
> 
> It is also clear that according to International Law, tracing back to UN General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 3314, in 1974, that it was unacceptable for any State to engage in military occupations of foreign territory.
> 
> On November 29, 1978, with ‘United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24’, the right to armed struggle was again reaffirmed, as it was stated that the body recognised; “…the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle”. This legitimate and defensible right under international law, again confirmed in UNGA resolution 37/43 in 1982, is not in line therefore with any reasonable definition of terrorism.
> 
> To deny Palestinians their right to resist a foreign settler-colonialism occupying force, means that you are arguing against International Law. This is not a matter of opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always pimp Israeli talking points?
Click to expand...

That long, tedious cut and paste is rather meaningless. Israel is not a foreign settler colonialism occupying force. 

I can only give you a 3/10 for cobbling together most of your usual, tired, irrelevant and pointless slogans.


----------



## Hollie

Reiterating what the Pal'istanian terrorists have been screaming out for decades, yet, for some reason, people chose not to believe them. 

"...Families ‎of the Martyrs and the Wounded (The Institute for the Martyrs/Palestine Martyrs’ ‎Families Foundation) has “*a single purpose… of a criminal nature*” and was ‎created with the “*criminal purpose of incentivising acts of terrorism against ‎Israelis*.”









						Canada must now designate the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas as terror ‎supporters ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Canadian court: A PLO run organization is criminal, whose single ‎purpose is “incentivising acts of terrorism against Israelis”‎




					palwatch.org
				




*Canada must now designate the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas as terror ‎supporters ‎*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 12, 2021

*Canadian court: A PLO run organization is criminal, whose single ‎purpose is “incentivising acts of terrorism against Israelis”‎*
A‏ ‏‎ Canadian court has found that the PLO Institute for the Care of the Families ‎of the Martyrs and the Wounded (The Institute for the Martyrs/Palestine Martyrs’ ‎Families Foundation) has “*a single purpose… of a criminal nature*” and was ‎created with the “*criminal purpose of incentivising acts of terrorism against ‎Israelis*.” The Institute for the Martyrs was founded by former PLO leader Yasser ‎Arafat, among other reasons, to give terrorists the security of knowing that their ‎families would be supported should they be killed while attacking Israelis. ‎Today, the PLO is headed by Mahmoud Abbas who has repeatedly expressed ‎his complete support for this institute and its financial support to families of ‎killed terrorists, including families of suicide bombers.‎
The decision of the Montreal District Court was given in the case of a ‎Palestinian whose request for refugee status was rejected by Canada because ‎she had worked for the Iraq branch of the Institute for the Martyrs. ‎


----------



## Hollie

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a country. Still isn't a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL.. neither was Israel. It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *LOL.. neither was Israel. *
> 
> And now Israel is and Palestine still isn't.
> 
> *It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.*
> 
> Which years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From 500 BC until 1948. Do you remember the olive  trees and almond trees and the pomegranates?
Click to expand...

That timeframe conflicts with Ottoman control of the territory.


----------



## surada

Dogmaphobe said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.
> 
> That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.
Click to expand...


You moron.. They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

surada said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.
> 
> That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron.. They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers.
Click to expand...

The fact that there was a territory administered by the British called "Palestine" does not mean there was a people called Palestinian. the letter you reference by King Abdullah actually proves that fact, but you are too stupid, too dishonest and too full of hatred towards Jews to understand that.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF: * Finally, somewhat of a decent challenge.

The application of the Protocols does not rest upon the determination as to whether or not the conflict is "just" or "unjust."  For that matter, the application of the protocols does not revolve around the issue of "aggression" or "self-defense."  As a matter of fact, neither Protocols I or II event mention the word "liberation" let alone "war of Liberation.​



RoccoR said:


> It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.





P F Tinmore said:


> When we look at the issue of armed resistance broadly, according to ‘Additional Protocol 1’ to the ‘Geneva Conventions’ (1949) all Peoples are entitled, under international humanitarian law, to the right to armed national liberation struggles.


*(COMMENT)*

All the Protocols (I & II) say is that the terminology of "armed conflict" includes Armed confrontations on the matters of:

◈  Colonial Aggression​◈  Alien Occupation​◈  Right of Self-Determination​
The Protocols do NOT grant approvals for or otherwise authorize such conflicts.  In fact Protocol II (Article 3) specifically says:
​


			
				Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
			
		

> Article 3. Non-intervention​
> 1. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked* for the purpose of affecting the sovereignty of a State or the responsibility of the government, *by all legitimate means*, to maintain or re-establish law and order in the State or to defend the national unity and territorial integrity of the State.​
> ​
> 2. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked as a justification for intervening, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the armed conflict or in the internal or external affairs of the High Contracting Party in the territory of which that conflict occurs.*​
> Source:​


​


			
				Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
			
		

> * Additional Protocol II, GCIV*





			
				Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
			
		

> ​



This would rule out, as applicable the bottom three of the four Resolutions encouraging "by all means" and none of the four resolutions have been enacted into law _(not in force)_.  And, by the way, International Humanitarian Law "never" justifies a conflict for any reason.  It is all about "protections" afforded in such conflicts.​​◈  United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 2787’ in 1971:​✦  UN General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 3314, in 1974,​✦  United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24’, 1974​✦  UNGA resolution 37/43 in 1982,​​One more point of order:  Every single one of these resolutions came into existence AFTER the 1967 Conflict (Six-Day War).  And at the time they were written, the Hashemite Kingdom held sovereignty over the West Bank.  AND the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was established as the "sole legitimate representative of the *Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)*."​​​


P F Tinmore said:


> Why do you always pimp Israeli talking points?​​


​*(COMMENT)*​​I'm still waiting for the copy of the "Israeli Talking Points" that you have.  _(Personally, I don't think there is any such thing.)_  But I, in any event, I don't actually speak for the Israelis.  I express my opinions and I'll address "Bull Shit" when I see it.​​



​Most Respectfully,​R​


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> The European Jews went to Palestine for sanctuary when no other country would take them in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a country. Still isn't a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL.. neither was Israel. It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *LOL.. neither was Israel. *
> 
> And now Israel is and Palestine still isn't.
> 
> *It was a tiny city state in the Syrian province of Palestine for a few years of self rule.*
> 
> Which years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From 500 BC until 1948. Do you remember the olive  trees and almond trees and the pomegranates?
Click to expand...


*From 500 BC until 1948. *

Syria was in charge of Israel that entire time? Wow!

*Do you remember the olive  trees and almond trees and the pomegranates?*

No, I don't remember events 2500 years ago. Do you?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.
> 
> That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron.. They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers.
Click to expand...


*They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers. *

That's awesome! What was their currency?
Who was in their government?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.
> 
> That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron.. They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers. *
> 
> That's awesome! What was their currency?
> Who was in their government?
Click to expand...

Currency printed by thomas de La rue of london.

facts never matter to Antisemites, though.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Finally, somewhat of a decent challenge.
> 
> The application of the Protocols does not rest upon the determination as to whether or not the conflict is "just" or "unjust."  For that matter, the application of the protocols does not revolve around the issue of "aggression" or "self-defense."  As a matter of fact, neither Protocols I or II event mention the word "liberation" let alone "war of Liberation.​
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we look at the issue of armed resistance broadly, according to ‘Additional Protocol 1’ to the ‘Geneva Conventions’ (1949) all Peoples are entitled, under international humanitarian law, to the right to armed national liberation struggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All the Protocols (I & II) say is that the terminology of "armed conflict" includes Armed confrontations on the matters of:
> 
> ◈  Colonial Aggression​◈  Alien Occupation​◈  Right of Self-Determination​
> The Protocols do NOT grant approvals for or otherwise authorize such conflicts.  In fact Protocol II (Article 3) specifically says:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3. Non-intervention​
> 1. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked* for the purpose of affecting the sovereignty of a State or the responsibility of the government, *by all legitimate means*, to maintain or re-establish law and order in the State or to defend the national unity and territorial integrity of the State.​
> ​
> 2. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked as a justification for intervening, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the armed conflict or in the internal or external affairs of the High Contracting Party in the territory of which that conflict occurs.*​
> Source:​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Additional Protocol II, GCIV*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This would rule out, as applicable the bottom three of the four Resolutions encouraging "by all means" and none of the four resolutions have been enacted into law _(not in force)_.  And, by the way, International Humanitarian Law "never" justifies a conflict for any reason.  It is all about "protections" afforded in such conflicts.​​◈  United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 2787’ in 1971:​✦  UN General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 3314, in 1974,​✦  United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24’, 1974​✦  UNGA resolution 37/43 in 1982,​​One more point of order:  Every single one of these resolutions came into existence AFTER the 1967 Conflict (Six-Day War).  And at the time they were written, the Hashemite Kingdom held sovereignty over the West Bank.  AND the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was established as the "sole legitimate representative of the *Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)*."​​​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always pimp Israeli talking points?​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*​​I'm still waiting for the copy of the "Israeli Talking Points" that you have.  _(Personally, I don't think there is any such thing.)_  But I, in any event, I don't actually speak for the Israelis.  I express my opinions and I'll address "Bull Shit" when I see it.​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Most Respectfully,​R​
Click to expand...

Liberation is not intervention. Liberation, by default, is a defensive position.

You need to ditch that Israeli talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Finally, somewhat of a decent challenge.
> 
> The application of the Protocols does not rest upon the determination as to whether or not the conflict is "just" or "unjust."  For that matter, the application of the protocols does not revolve around the issue of "aggression" or "self-defense."  As a matter of fact, neither Protocols I or II event mention the word "liberation" let alone "war of Liberation.​
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we look at the issue of armed resistance broadly, according to ‘Additional Protocol 1’ to the ‘Geneva Conventions’ (1949) all Peoples are entitled, under international humanitarian law, to the right to armed national liberation struggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All the Protocols (I & II) say is that the terminology of "armed conflict" includes Armed confrontations on the matters of:
> 
> ◈  Colonial Aggression​◈  Alien Occupation​◈  Right of Self-Determination​
> The Protocols do NOT grant approvals for or otherwise authorize such conflicts.  In fact Protocol II (Article 3) specifically says:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3. Non-intervention​
> 1. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked* for the purpose of affecting the sovereignty of a State or the responsibility of the government, *by all legitimate means*, to maintain or re-establish law and order in the State or to defend the national unity and territorial integrity of the State.​
> ​
> 2. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked as a justification for intervening, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the armed conflict or in the internal or external affairs of the High Contracting Party in the territory of which that conflict occurs.*​
> Source:​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Additional Protocol II, GCIV*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This would rule out, as applicable the bottom three of the four Resolutions encouraging "by all means" and none of the four resolutions have been enacted into law _(not in force)_.  And, by the way, International Humanitarian Law "never" justifies a conflict for any reason.  It is all about "protections" afforded in such conflicts.​​◈  United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 2787’ in 1971:​✦  UN General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 3314, in 1974,​✦  United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24’, 1974​✦  UNGA resolution 37/43 in 1982,​​One more point of order:  Every single one of these resolutions came into existence AFTER the 1967 Conflict (Six-Day War).  And at the time they were written, the Hashemite Kingdom held sovereignty over the West Bank.  AND the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was established as the "sole legitimate representative of the *Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)*."​​​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always pimp Israeli talking points?​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*​​I'm still waiting for the copy of the "Israeli Talking Points" that you have.  _(Personally, I don't think there is any such thing.)_  But I, in any event, I don't actually speak for the Israelis.  I express my opinions and I'll address "Bull Shit" when I see it.​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Most Respectfully,​R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberation is not intervention. Liberation, by default, is a defensive position.
> 
> You need to ditch that Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

Such a nonsense claim is by default, nonsense.


----------



## toastman

surada said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land does the UN call Pal’istan? When did the UN get into the land calling business?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements, the UN called all of Palestine Palestine. In the Jordanian and Egyptian Armistice Agreements the UN called the Negev Palestine. Israel claims borders on that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What territory specifically are you talking about that Israel ‘claims’ is theirs . Post a map and hiloge
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
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> toastman said:
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> surada said:
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> toastman said:
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> surada said:
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> toastman said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> toastman said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> RoccoR said:
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> the territories to which the Mandate *for* Palestine applies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the establishment *in Palestine*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. Balfour recognizes the existence of Palestine. The Treaty of Lausanne called it a state. The League of Nations called it a state. Various court rulings called it a state. The US had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> The liars in Israel says that Palestine is not a state with no evidence to back up that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine. _
> 
> And since there is no longer a Mandate for Palestine, we agree there is no longer a Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There can't be a Mandate *For* Palestine if there is no Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *A state does not need a Mandate to exist. *
> 
> An imaginary state doesn't need borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting thing to say since Israel has never declared its borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure about that ? Would you like me to embarrass you again by posting Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS with Egypt and Jordan ? Yea or no Tinmore ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are a couple concerns that everybody ducks.
> 
> Israel claims borders on land that the UN calls Palestine.
> 
> Those treaties were brokered by the US. You know...the country that illegally gave East Jerusalem and The Golan Hts. to Israel.
> 
> There is a question of validity here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW , where did you read that the US gave Israel East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Israel captured them during wars that Arabs started .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel planned the war beginning in 1953 .. Read Moshe Dayan. They  attacked Egypt when all Egypt's troops were fighting in Yemen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel started which war ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.. They planned it for over a decade/ Read Moshe Dayan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read facts, like the facts that the Arabs were massing troops around Israel, making threats of annihalation and had closed the straits of Tiran, which Israel had said would be taken as an act of war. So Israel pre emptively attacked the Arabs (which is pathetic considering how small Israel is compared to the countries of beat by destroying all their air forces  )
> Since the Arabs lost the war, of course they act like crying babies and play the victim card. Truly pathetic..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They weren't amassing troops around Israel.. The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months.. Nasser had asked for a summit to resolved the problem. Egyptian troops were deployed in Yemen to fight the civil war there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the months prior to June 1967, tensions became dangerously heightened. Israel reiterated its post-1956 position that the closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping would be a cause for war (a casus belli).
> ejecting UNEF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any more questions ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Straits of Tiran had been closed for 14 months before Israel attacked Egypt ,, and in the weeks prior Nasser had called for a summit to resolve the situation.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a link all this? My guess is no...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Finally, somewhat of a decent challenge.
> 
> The application of the Protocols does not rest upon the determination as to whether or not the conflict is "just" or "unjust."  For that matter, the application of the protocols does not revolve around the issue of "aggression" or "self-defense."  As a matter of fact, neither Protocols I or II event mention the word "liberation" let alone "war of Liberation.​
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It now is argued as liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we look at the issue of armed resistance broadly, according to ‘Additional Protocol 1’ to the ‘Geneva Conventions’ (1949) all Peoples are entitled, under international humanitarian law, to the right to armed national liberation struggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All the Protocols (I & II) say is that the terminology of "armed conflict" includes Armed confrontations on the matters of:
> 
> ◈  Colonial Aggression​◈  Alien Occupation​◈  Right of Self-Determination​
> The Protocols do NOT grant approvals for or otherwise authorize such conflicts.  In fact Protocol II (Article 3) specifically says:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 3. Non-intervention​
> 1. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked* for the purpose of affecting the sovereignty of a State or the responsibility of the government, *by all legitimate means*, to maintain or re-establish law and order in the State or to defend the national unity and territorial integrity of the State.​
> ​
> 2. *Nothing in this Protocol shall be invoked as a justification for intervening, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the armed conflict or in the internal or external affairs of the High Contracting Party in the territory of which that conflict occurs.*​
> Source:​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Additional Protocol II, GCIV*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This would rule out, as applicable the bottom three of the four Resolutions encouraging "by all means" and none of the four resolutions have been enacted into law _(not in force)_.  And, by the way, International Humanitarian Law "never" justifies a conflict for any reason.  It is all about "protections" afforded in such conflicts.​​◈  United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 2787’ in 1971:​✦  UN General Assembly (UNGA) Resolution 3314, in 1974,​✦  United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24’, 1974​✦  UNGA resolution 37/43 in 1982,​​One more point of order:  Every single one of these resolutions came into existence AFTER the 1967 Conflict (Six-Day War).  And at the time they were written, the Hashemite Kingdom held sovereignty over the West Bank.  AND the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was established as the "sole legitimate representative of the *Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)*."​​​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always pimp Israeli talking points?​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*​​I'm still waiting for the copy of the "Israeli Talking Points" that you have.  _(Personally, I don't think there is any such thing.)_  But I, in any event, I don't actually speak for the Israelis.  I express my opinions and I'll address "Bull Shit" when I see it.​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Most Respectfully,​R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberation is not intervention. Liberation, by default, is a defensive position.
> 
> You need to ditch that Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

Please give some specific examples of how the Palestinians have “defended” themselves in the last few decades ... 
This should be interesting


----------



## Hollie

You’re probably not surprised but the Pals are begging at the UN for more welfare money. Gee, has it been 24 hours already since the last time they came begging?

I guess between the recent Islamic terrorist ‘war games’ where they attacked the ocean with rockets and deposits of welfare money to their personal bank accounts it falls to everyone else to bail out the Islamic terrorist franchises.












						346,000 Palestinians Pushed From Moderate to Severe Need of Assistance - Joint OCHA-State of Palestine Press Release - Question of Palestine
					

Posted on 15 December 2020 US$417 million plan to address humanitarian needs of Palestinians launched Joint Press Release video Arabic: العربية Today, the Prime Minister of the State of Palestine, H.E. Dr. Mohammad Shtayyeh, and the Humanitarian Coordinator a.i., Ms. Lucia Elmi, launched the...



					www.un.org
				




Today, the Prime Minister of the State of Palestine, H.E. Dr. Mohammad Shtayyeh, and the Humanitarian Coordinator a.i., Ms. Lucia Elmi, launched the Humanitarian Response Plan (HRP) to help 1.8 vulnerable people in the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) in 2021. The launch was broadcasted on social media, where speakers responded to questions from the public.


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the PA is falling over themselves in praise of attacks aimed at Israeli's. 

A Pal religious authority is similarly 'blessing' attacks.




*Abbas’ advisor praises rock thrower: “May his hands be blessed”‎*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 14, 2021

*PA: “Rocks frighten the Israelis” – praise for rock thrower*
*Palestinian rock throwing is lethal*





The picture above of an older Palestinian man throwing a rock with a sling ‎shot would almost be comical if rocks being thrown by Palestinians were just ‎a game and not a lethal weapon with which Israelis have been murdered.‎

The PA claims rock throwing is "peaceful resistance," but in reality it is an act ‎of terror and thousands of Israelis have been injured and some have been ‎murdered by rocks thrown by Palestinians, among them, for example, these ‎victims: ‎
*Asher Palmer (25) and his infant son Yonatan* were murdered by a ‎Palestinian who threw a rock at their car, making it overturn, killing ‎them both in 2011. ‎
*Adele Biton *(3) was driving with her mother and siblings in 2013, ‎when Palestinians threw rocks at their car, causing Adele’s mother to ‎lose control of the car, which crashed. Adele sustained severe head ‎injuries and never recovered. She died in 2015.‎
*Alexander Levlovitch *(64) was murdered by Palestinian terrorists who ‎threw rocks at his car and caused it to crash in 2015.‎
*Israeli soldier Amit ben Yigal* (21) was murdered by a Palestinian ‎terrorist who threw a rock down on his head from a building in 2020.‎
By posting the picture of the middle-aged Palestinian rock thrower above, PA ‎Chairman Abbas’ advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash encouraged this lethal ‎means of “resistance” and added his praise too:‎


> ‎*“May his hands be blessed”‎*
> [Facebook page of PA Supreme Shari’ah Judge Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Jan. 8, 2021]‎


----------



## Hollie

The typical putrid bile from the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians




*‎“Israeli rabbis indoctrinate the Jewish kids: ‎ Kill the Palestinian children” - Palestinian “expert” libels Israel*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 15, 2021
*In fact, it is Palestinian leaders who encourage Palestinian children to kill ‎Jews*



A Palestinian alleged “military expert” disseminates the lie that Israeli rabbis ‎are teaching Jewish kids to “kill everyone who is not Jewish,” as reported by ‎Palestinian Media Watch. Now Wasef Erekat has taken his libel a step ‎further, claiming that the rabbis specify that Jewish kids should “kill the ‎Palestinian children”: ‎


----------



## Hollie

*Strong Warning Alert!*


Somebody (other than the Pals of course), needs to take responsibility for the Pals' lack of high speed internet.

The costs of maintaining the expansive Islamic terrorist infrastructure are massive. Maintaining entire networks of Islamic terrorists and supporting the greed, theft and corruption as a first priority for the Pally leadership costs boatloads of money. With the middling funds available for the usual expenditures associated with maintaining the civil responsibilities of government, that endless black hole of want, need and entitlement needs others to do for them what they refuse to do.








__





						PA issues a stark warning of digital economy tardiness because of deprivation of 4G/5G spectrum for Palestine
					






					english.wafa.ps
				





RAMALLAH, Thursday, January 14, 2021 (WAFA) - The Palestinian Authority (PA) today issued a strong warning that Palestine's momentum towards the digital economy is falling behind due to Israel's control over access to the 4G/5G spectrum.

This continued deprivation of access to the necessary spectrum will have negative economic and social consequences, especially as Covid-19 is transitioning the Palestine society to digital life across key sectors and the current broadband infrastructure is not enough.

In a letter addressed to the international and donor community operating in Palestine, the Palestinian Authority reported the negative impact of such deprivation and the positive results of access to technology.


----------



## surada

Dogmaphobe said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Hashemites - As the Arabs See the Jews*
> www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
> King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951) "As the Arabs see the Jews". His Majesty King Abdullah, The American Magazine. November, 1947. Summary. This fascinating essay, written by King Hussein’s grandfather King Abdullah, appeared in the United States six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. In the article, King Abdullah disputes the mistaken view that Arab opposition to Zionism (and later the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not once does he mention a "Palestinian" people.
> 
> That is because they had not been invented yet by your fellow Arabs as a propaganda tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moron.. They had Palestinians stamps and currency and newspapers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that there was a territory administered by the British called "Palestine" does not mean there was a people called Palestinian. the letter you reference by King Abdullah actually proves that fact, but you are too stupid, too dishonest and too full of hatred towards Jews to understand that.
Click to expand...


In 1952 a lot of Palestinians worked in our town and went to our church.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

surada said:


> In 1952 a lot of Palestinians worked in our town and went to our church.



Where was the church? What was its name?

Be specific.


----------



## Hollie

I would like to see the US get serious about addressing Islamic terrorist groups. Let's hope this bill bets some traction. 








						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				





Two US congressmen on Thursday re-introduced the Palestinian International Terrorism Support Prevention Act, a motion imposing sanctions on persons, agencies and governments that financially assist Palestinian terror groups Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, or their proxies and affiliates.


----------



## Hollie

I guess the UN has decided that its role as governing / authoritative body includes articulating Israeli government policy.

Yes, it would be an advantage for the Pally terrorists if they didn't have to waste their welfare money on medicine but could use it instead to attack fish in the sea by launching missiles at them. 

Why is the Israeli government responsible for providing Wuhan virus vaccinations to the.... wait for.... here it comes... ''country of Pal'istan''?











						COVID: DISAGREEMENT OVER ISRAEL'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PALESTINE
					

As Israelis get vaccinated against coronavirus at record rate, the UN says Israel has obligations to vaccinate Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza as well.




					www.wfmz.com
				





As Israelis get vaccinated against coronavirus at record rate, the UN says Israel has obligations to vaccinate Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza as well.


----------



## surada

Toddsterpatriot said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1952 a lot of Palestinians worked in our town and went to our church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where was the church? What was its name?
> 
> Be specific.
Click to expand...


In Abqaiq, Protestant Fellowship, but some also attended Catholic Mass.


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## Hollie

Canada and the UN face quite a challenge when it comes to combating domestic violence in Islamic backwaters such as the territories occupied by Hamas and Fatah.

With the PA issuing statements such as: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎, you just know there are going to be problems.

*Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 18, 2021








						Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas’ advisor about the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎




					palwatch.org
				



*Are the international supporters aware 
that the PA preaches the exact opposite?*

*Abbas’ advisor about PA having signed the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎*
The Palestinian Authority is currently running a TV ad that speaks out ‎against domestic violence and informs women (and male victims as well) ‎where they can get help. The ad stresses that domestic violence is more than ‎just physical blows, and includes psychological violence, sexual coercion, ‎and also the withholding of resources. The ad is paid for by Canada and ‎produced by the UN. (See below):


 ‎
	

	
	
		
		

		
			












> *Narrator:* “Violence is damage that harms women, young women, ‎men, and young men. It has many forms such as physical blows, ‎psychological violence, or sex against your will.‎
> Violence is not only physical, [but] also threats, coercion, and ‎withholding resources such as studies, monetary expenditures, ‎inheritance, and access to services.‎
> Did you know that last year, 243 million women suffered from sexual ‎or physical violence worldwide?‎
> In Palestine, 29% of the women were subjected to violence by their ‎husbands…‎
> Violence is not inevitable. Violence is unacceptable. You can always ‎get help. ‎
> You can find information on the protection and support services for ‎victims of violence at:‎
> www.palestine.unwomen.org
> The gender-based guide for violence services”‎
> [Official PA TV, several times since Jan. 4, 2021]‎


----------



## surada

Hollie said:


> Canada and the UN face quite a challenge when it comes to combating domestic violence in Islamic backwaters such as the territories occupied by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> With the PA issuing statements such as: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎, you just know there are going to be problems.
> 
> *Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 18, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Abbas’ advisor about the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Are the international supporters aware
> that the PA preaches the exact opposite?*
> 
> *Abbas’ advisor about PA having signed the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎*
> The Palestinian Authority is currently running a TV ad that speaks out ‎against domestic violence and informs women (and male victims as well) ‎where they can get help. The ad stresses that domestic violence is more than ‎just physical blows, and includes psychological violence, sexual coercion, ‎and also the withholding of resources. The ad is paid for by Canada and ‎produced by the UN. (See below):
> 
> 
> ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Narrator:* “Violence is damage that harms women, young women, ‎men, and young men. It has many forms such as physical blows, ‎psychological violence, or sex against your will.‎
> Violence is not only physical, [but] also threats, coercion, and ‎withholding resources such as studies, monetary expenditures, ‎inheritance, and access to services.‎
> Did you know that last year, 243 million women suffered from sexual ‎or physical violence worldwide?‎
> In Palestine, 29% of the women were subjected to violence by their ‎husbands…‎
> Violence is not inevitable. Violence is unacceptable. You can always ‎get help. ‎
> You can find information on the protection and support services for ‎victims of violence at:‎
> www.palestine.unwomen.org
> The gender-based guide for violence services”‎
> [Official PA TV, several times since Jan. 4, 2021]‎
Click to expand...


There is NOTHING left for a two state solution.. This map is a decade old.

Do you want  failed state on your border? I can't think of another country that wants that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Canada and the UN face quite a challenge when it comes to combating domestic violence in Islamic backwaters such as the territories occupied by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> With the PA issuing statements such as: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎, you just know there are going to be problems.
> 
> *Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 18, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Abbas’ advisor about the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Are the international supporters aware
> that the PA preaches the exact opposite?*
> 
> *Abbas’ advisor about PA having signed the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎*
> The Palestinian Authority is currently running a TV ad that speaks out ‎against domestic violence and informs women (and male victims as well) ‎where they can get help. The ad stresses that domestic violence is more than ‎just physical blows, and includes psychological violence, sexual coercion, ‎and also the withholding of resources. The ad is paid for by Canada and ‎produced by the UN. (See below):
> 
> 
> ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Narrator:* “Violence is damage that harms women, young women, ‎men, and young men. It has many forms such as physical blows, ‎psychological violence, or sex against your will.‎
> Violence is not only physical, [but] also threats, coercion, and ‎withholding resources such as studies, monetary expenditures, ‎inheritance, and access to services.‎
> Did you know that last year, 243 million women suffered from sexual ‎or physical violence worldwide?‎
> In Palestine, 29% of the women were subjected to violence by their ‎husbands…‎
> Violence is not inevitable. Violence is unacceptable. You can always ‎get help. ‎
> You can find information on the protection and support services for ‎victims of violence at:‎
> www.palestine.unwomen.org
> The gender-based guide for violence services”‎
> [Official PA TV, several times since Jan. 4, 2021]‎
Click to expand...

Domestic violence is so prevalent in the US that we have a body of law just to deal with it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canada and the UN face quite a challenge when it comes to combating domestic violence in Islamic backwaters such as the territories occupied by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> With the PA issuing statements such as: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎, you just know there are going to be problems.
> 
> *Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 18, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad against domestic violence in the PA – funded by Canada, produced by the UN | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Abbas’ advisor about the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Are the international supporters aware
> that the PA preaches the exact opposite?*
> 
> *Abbas’ advisor about PA having signed the international Convention on the ‎Elimination of Discrimination Against Women: “The PA is only ‎committed to that which is “consistent with Islamic law”‎*
> The Palestinian Authority is currently running a TV ad that speaks out ‎against domestic violence and informs women (and male victims as well) ‎where they can get help. The ad stresses that domestic violence is more than ‎just physical blows, and includes psychological violence, sexual coercion, ‎and also the withholding of resources. The ad is paid for by Canada and ‎produced by the UN. (See below):
> 
> 
> ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Narrator:* “Violence is damage that harms women, young women, ‎men, and young men. It has many forms such as physical blows, ‎psychological violence, or sex against your will.‎
> Violence is not only physical, [but] also threats, coercion, and ‎withholding resources such as studies, monetary expenditures, ‎inheritance, and access to services.‎
> Did you know that last year, 243 million women suffered from sexual ‎or physical violence worldwide?‎
> In Palestine, 29% of the women were subjected to violence by their ‎husbands…‎
> Violence is not inevitable. Violence is unacceptable. You can always ‎get help. ‎
> You can find information on the protection and support services for ‎victims of violence at:‎
> www.palestine.unwomen.org
> The gender-based guide for violence services”‎
> [Official PA TV, several times since Jan. 4, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Domestic violence is so prevalent in the US that we have a body of law just to deal with it.
Click to expand...


Rather poor attempt at ''what about'ism''.

When the Koran is your ''constitution'', you're entitled to all sorts of hellacious behavior.

*Article Five:*
Time extent of the Islamic Resistance Movement: By adopting Islam as its way of life, the Movement goes back to the time of the birth of the Islamic message, of the righteous ancestor, for Allah is its target, the Prophet is its example and the Koran is its constitution. Its extent in place is anywhere that there are Moslems who embrace Islam as their way of life everywhere in the globe. This being so, it extends to the depth of the earth and reaches out to the heaven.


Can I help you with your koran'ology?




Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like .
_Sura 2:223_

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."
_(Dawood's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)_


Good times


----------



## Hollie

Just keepin' it real... real angry and self-hating. 












						Rashida Tlaib: If Trump weren’t white, he would have already been impeached
					

Rashida Tlaib actually suggested this morning that the only reason why Trump hasn’t been fully impeached by the Senate and removed from office is because he’s white (skip ahead to 1:00)…




					therightscoop.com
				










Rashida Tlaib: If Trump weren’t white, he would have already been impeached


----------



## Hollie

Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality. 




*PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021









						PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.




					palwatch.org
				




The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎















> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. It’s so... you know... _racist_™️, maybe even _islamophobic_™️ that the cash strapped _country of Pal’istan™️ _should be expected to provide for its citizens.

There‘s apparently plenty of cash to pay for weapons and ammo for the gee-had, PA and Hamas member personal bank accounts and Islamic terrorists enjoying the hospitality of Israeli jails but Wuhan virus vaccines, not so much. Somebody else should pay for that. 











						Palestinians desperately await COVID-19 vaccine
					

Israel excludes Palestinians in occupied territories from its robust COVID-19 vaccination programme.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




The cash-strapped PA is forced to fend for itself as Israel excludes Palestinians in occupied territories from its COVID-19 vaccination programme.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
Click to expand...

When did Israel legally acquire any land?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

At what point during the Islamic occupation did the land become Pally land?

link?


----------



## Hollie

Rashida Tlaib, always a class act.

In between her calls toward Israel as a ''racist state'' and her finding common ground with Islamic terrorists, she's hoping her tirades will win friends in Israel.

I would be curious to know if she has asked any of the Islamic terrorist franchises why it is the "country of Pally'land" can support legions of convicted criminals, and can make Hamas the second richest Islamic terrorist organization in the world but can't afford vaccines.




*Rashida Tlaib Takes the Idiocy up to Another Leve*

By Bonchie | Jan 19, 2021 9:00 PM ET

Tom Elliott on Twitter: "Rep. @RashidaTlaib on Israel not vaccinating Palestinians: “It’s really important to understand that Israel is a racist state, in that they would deny Palestinians like my grandmother access to a vaccine, that they don’t believe she’s an equal human being who deserves to live." https://t.co/vPCeXjdqrZ" / Twitter


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Where does it say that to become a legit country (which it already is) , did Israel have to “acquire land” ? Link?

Also, when did the Palestinians legally acquire any land? Specific date(s) with links .....


----------



## Hollie

Oopsies!

Hundreds of thousands of UNRWA texts distributed to students _disposable gee-had bots_ in the PA and Gaza madrassah were a bit, how shall we say, “gee-had oriented”? Just an oversight. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I guess it’s time for UNRWA to beg and plead for more welfare money. Training manuals for the gee-had don’t just fall off the Kuffar tree.










						UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad
					

One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”




					m.jpost.com
				








*UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad*

One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”

One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”


The United Nations aid agency for Palestinians said it is “taking steps” to address the glorification of “martyrs” and calls for “jihad” in books it handed out to students.

UNRWA made the statements Thursday following a report published a day earlier by the Jerusalem-based Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School, or IMPACT-se, saying the books went to hundreds of thousands of students in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza. Many seem to be based on Palestinian Authority resources. Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
Upon achieving effective and official independence,
in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.









						Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




*Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Oopsies!
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of UNRWA texts distributed to students _disposable gee-had bots_ in the PA and Gaza madrassah were a bit, how shall we say, “gee-had oriented”? Just an oversight. Nothing to see here. Move along.
> 
> I guess it’s time for UNRWA to beg and plead for more welfare money. Training manuals for the gee-had don’t just fall off the Kuffar tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad
> 
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad*
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> The United Nations aid agency for Palestinians said it is “taking steps” to address the glorification of “martyrs” and calls for “jihad” in books it handed out to students.
> 
> UNRWA made the statements Thursday following a report published a day earlier by the Jerusalem-based Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School, or IMPACT-se, saying the books went to hundreds of thousands of students in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza. Many seem to be based on Palestinian Authority resources. Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.





Hollie said:


> Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.


Maps are borders defining territory. Those maps are geographically correct.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

It’s a real hoot when Islamic terrorist dictators call for elections, and coincidentally, their Islamic terrorist franchises nominate them as Dictator in charge. 











						Palestinian PM: Abbas is our presidential candidate
					

Last week, Abbas called for general elections for the first time since 2006.




					m.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian ruling Fatah faction has nominated Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas as its candidate for president, PA Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh announced on Wednesday.

The London-based Al-Araby TV channel quoted Shtayyeh as saying that there was “consensus” in Fatah that the 85-year-old Abbas will be its candidate in the upcoming election.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oopsies!
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of UNRWA texts distributed to students _disposable gee-had bots_ in the PA and Gaza madrassah were a bit, how shall we say, “gee-had oriented”? Just an oversight. Nothing to see here. Move along.
> 
> I guess it’s time for UNRWA to beg and plead for more welfare money. Training manuals for the gee-had don’t just fall off the Kuffar tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad
> 
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad*
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> The United Nations aid agency for Palestinians said it is “taking steps” to address the glorification of “martyrs” and calls for “jihad” in books it handed out to students.
> 
> UNRWA made the statements Thursday following a report published a day earlier by the Jerusalem-based Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School, or IMPACT-se, saying the books went to hundreds of thousands of students in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza. Many seem to be based on Palestinian Authority resources. Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maps are borders defining territory. Those maps are geographically correct.
Click to expand...

What maps are “geographically correct”?

link?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like the Abbas mini-caliphate may remain, intractable and bloated, with the seemingly endless conglomeration of Authority’s, Councils, Committees, etc., and the black hole of fraud, waste and mismanagement that has characterized the Abbas Islamic terrorist / crime syndicate











						PA demands Israel allow East Jerusalemites to take part in Palestinian elections
					

Israel has long cracked down on Palestinian Authority activity in East Jerusalem; Palestinian elections official says contingency plans exist if Israel refuses request




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Observers are skeptical, however, that elections will actually take place. Abbas has vowed to hold elections several times since his four-year term ostensibly expired in 2009. However, repeated attempts to hold votes for president and parliament have flopped, largely due to the inability of rivals Fatah and Hamas to agree on terms.

East Jerusalem has also posed an obstacle to holding elections — or, some allege, a convenient excuse for Abbas not to hold them. Israel considers the entirety of Jerusalem to be its sovereign capital, and cracks down on Palestinian Authority activity within the city’s boundaries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oopsies!
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of UNRWA texts distributed to students _disposable gee-had bots_ in the PA and Gaza madrassah were a bit, how shall we say, “gee-had oriented”? Just an oversight. Nothing to see here. Move along.
> 
> I guess it’s time for UNRWA to beg and plead for more welfare money. Training manuals for the gee-had don’t just fall off the Kuffar tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad
> 
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad*
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> The United Nations aid agency for Palestinians said it is “taking steps” to address the glorification of “martyrs” and calls for “jihad” in books it handed out to students.
> 
> UNRWA made the statements Thursday following a report published a day earlier by the Jerusalem-based Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School, or IMPACT-se, saying the books went to hundreds of thousands of students in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza. Many seem to be based on Palestinian Authority resources. Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maps are borders defining territory. Those maps are geographically correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What maps are “geographically correct”?
> 
> link?
Click to expand...

The ones inside Palestine's international borders.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oopsies!
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of UNRWA texts distributed to students _disposable gee-had bots_ in the PA and Gaza madrassah were a bit, how shall we say, “gee-had oriented”? Just an oversight. Nothing to see here. Move along.
> 
> I guess it’s time for UNRWA to beg and plead for more welfare money. Training manuals for the gee-had don’t just fall off the Kuffar tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad
> 
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad*
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> The United Nations aid agency for Palestinians said it is “taking steps” to address the glorification of “martyrs” and calls for “jihad” in books it handed out to students.
> 
> UNRWA made the statements Thursday following a report published a day earlier by the Jerusalem-based Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School, or IMPACT-se, saying the books went to hundreds of thousands of students in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza. Many seem to be based on Palestinian Authority resources. Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maps are borders defining territory. Those maps are geographically correct.
Click to expand...


Agham,
and they all can't wait to hear especially Karen's opinion...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


So prove otherwise, why can't you?


----------



## RoccoR

E:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: We've come full circle several times now.



rylah said:


> So prove otherwise, why can't you?


*(COMMENT)*

The problem here is that our friend "PF Tinmore" does NOT actually believe in any authority other than that which supports his contention.

◈   He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​
Without a true belief in the language and the meaning of the reality of the day, he is hopelessly locked on this fallacy that concludes he is correct.  And in his world, it is possible for his fallacious deductive powers to establish premises • such that •  argument are true.  He reshapes history by going back more than a century, to a time when the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers made its decisions and facilitated immigration into the territory for the purpose of establishing a Jewish National Home.  And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> E:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: We've come full circle several times now.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem here is that our friend "PF Tinmore" does NOT actually believe in any authority other than that which supports his contention.
> 
> ◈   He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​
> Without a true belief in the language and the meaning of the reality of the day, he is hopelessly locked on this fallacy that concludes he is correct.  And in his world, it is possible for his fallacious deductive powers to establish premises • such that •  argument are true.  He reshapes history by going back more than a century, to a time when the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers made its decisions and facilitated immigration into the territory for the purpose of establishing a Jewish National Home.  And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."


I am curious as to how you draw your conclusions.


RoccoR said:


> And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.


I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Other than breaking up the Turkish Empire allowing for the creation of new states, what did the war have to do with anything?

How do you define immigration?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
Click to expand...

It is *your *point.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is *your *point.
Click to expand...


Indeed that is my point, and you have proven it once again,
by demonstrating the inability to show otherwise.
you simply can't prove otherwise -

*Arabs weren't and aren't legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in this land.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is *your *point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed that is my point, and you have proven it once again,
> by demonstrating the inability to show otherwise.
> you simply can't prove otherwise -
> 
> *Arabs weren't and aren't legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in this land.*
Click to expand...

Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is *your *point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed that is my point, and you have proven it once again,
> by demonstrating the inability to show otherwise.
> you simply can't prove otherwise -
> 
> *Arabs weren't and aren't legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in this land.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


But that's exactly the point,
you have just substantiated it once again,
by refusing to admit and prove otherwise at request.

Prove me wrong, or admit you can't,
until then your demand for Arab national self determination in this land - *legally baseless.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is *your *point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed that is my point, and you have proven it once again,
> by demonstrating the inability to show otherwise.
> you simply can't prove otherwise -
> 
> *Arabs weren't and aren't legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in this land.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that's exactly the point,
> you have just substantiated it once again,
> by refusing to admit and prove otherwise at request.
> 
> Prove me wrong, or admit you can't,
> until then your demand for Arab national self determination in this land - *legally baseless.*
Click to expand...

It is your talking point. It is up to you to prove it.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is *your *point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed that is my point, and you have proven it once again,
> by demonstrating the inability to show otherwise.
> you simply can't prove otherwise -
> 
> *Arabs weren't and aren't legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in this land.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that's exactly the point,
> you have just substantiated it once again,
> by refusing to admit and prove otherwise at request.
> 
> Prove me wrong, or admit you can't,
> until then your demand for Arab national self determination in this land - *legally baseless.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is your talking point. It is up to you to prove it.
Click to expand...


As usual.


----------



## Mindful

The proposed Palestinian elections are part of a scheme designed to deceive the international community, specifically the US and EU, into believing that the Palestinians are serious about implementing major reforms, ending financial and administrative corruption, and engaging in another peace process with Israel.
Not only does Abbas have no plans to depart from the political scene anytime in the near future, he is even said to be considering running in the presidential election.
There is one reason, and one reason only, why Abbas is now talking about holding general elections: to continue milking the cash cow he has in the form of American and European governments. Abbas wants the money to ensure his continued dictatorial rule over the Palestinians.
Abbas is hoping that such an international conference, under the auspices of the United Nations, European Union, Russia and China, would impose a solution on Israel. Abbas has only one solution in mind: one that would see Israel fully withdraw to the pre-1967 lines, including east Jerusalem, and the establishment of a Palestinian state that would undoubtedly be used in the future as a launching pad to wage war on Israel.
The Palestinians live under two dictatorships: one in the West Bank and one in the Gaza Strip. Elections, even if they are held, will not produce new leaders. They will produce Fatah flunkies and Hamas henchmen who bow obediently to their corrupt bosses.









						The Palestinian Plan to Dupe the Biden Administration
					

The proposed Palestinian elections are part of a scheme designed to deceive the international community, specifically the US and EU, into believing that the Palestinians are serious about implementing major reforms, ending financial and administrative




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd thing. The PA‘s vision of their mini-caliphate keeps expanding in proportion to their inability to launch a gee-had to make it a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 19, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to children: Israel's entire coast is really “Palestine,” “under occupation since ‎‎1948”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledge Israel's ‎right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority instructs Palestinian children never to acknowledgeIsrael's ‎right to exist. In a recent TV program, children were taught that Israel's entire coast is ‎part of “Palestine” and its “gateway to the world.” Israeli ports Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, ‎Ashdod, and Ashkelon were listed as part of the “Palestinian coastal plain” that has ‎been “under Israeli occupation since 1948”: ‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official PA TV host:* “The Palestinian coastal plain (i.e., Israeli coastal plain) is ‎Palestine’s face towards the Mediterranean Sea and the Arab world, and a ‎cultural junction between the East and West. It constitutes Palestine’s gateway ‎to the world. The Palestinian coast stretches from *Mount Carmel* in the north ‎‎(i.e., in Israel) to Rafah that is on the border with Egypt in the south. It is between ‎the Palestinian mountain ranges in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the ‎west. There are many ports on it such as the ports of *Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Ashdod, ‎Ashkelon* (i.e., all in Israel), and Gaza… Many nations have arrived there ‎throughout the generations out of a desire to exploit its location. The Palestinian ‎coastal plain has been under Israeli occupation since 1948.”‎
> [Official PA TV, _Farhan and Friends_, Jan. 10, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel legally acquire any land?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On 5th of Iyyar, 5708.
> Upon achieving effective and official independence,
> in land allotted by international law for our reconstitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independence Day (Israel) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* Were Arabs ever legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you demonstratively ducked my question,
> because Arabs were never legal beneficiaries of national self determination in the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is *your *point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed that is my point, and you have proven it once again,
> by demonstrating the inability to show otherwise.
> you simply can't prove otherwise -
> 
> *Arabs weren't and aren't legal beneficiaries of national self-determination in this land.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that's exactly the point,
> you have just substantiated it once again,
> by refusing to admit and prove otherwise at request.
> 
> Prove me wrong, or admit you can't,
> until then your demand for Arab national self determination in this land - *legally baseless.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is your talking point. It is up to you to prove it.
Click to expand...


See, you can try evading my question,
by mindlessly repeating the 'talking point' soundbite.
But that's exactly your formal position and ultimate demand:



			The Palestinian Charter
		


*Article 1:*
Palestine is the homeland of the Palestinian Arab people and an integral part of the great Arab homeland*,* and the people of Palestine are part of the Arab nation.

*Article 2:*
Palestine with its boundaries that existed at the time of the British mandate is an integral regional unit.

*Article 3:*
The Palestinian Arab people possesses the legal right to its homeland*,* and when the liberation of its homeland is completed they will exercise self-determination solely according to its own will and choice."


But when asked, when were Arabs ever the *legal* beneficiaries of national self determination in this land - you simply can't say.

I rest my case.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: In all practical views, the Arab Palestinian was not in any position, at the conclusion of hostilities, to make any demands. And the Allied Powers were not obligated to make any concessions to the Arab Palestinian.




RoccoR said:


> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."​◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​◈ He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​





P F Tinmore said:


> I am curious as to how you draw your conclusions.





RoccoR said:


> And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.





P F Tinmore said:


> I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Other than breaking up the Turkish Empire allowing for the creation of new states, what did the war have to do with anything?
> How do you define immigration?


*(COMMENT)*

On the matter of:

◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."  How many times have you said:​•  {POSTING #914}  The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory.  ​•  {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.​
On the matter of:

◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​•  {ARTICLE 3}  The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.​✦  This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.​✦  The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.​
On the matter of:

◈ He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​•  Turkey hereby undertakes, in accordance with the provisions of article to accept any decisions which may be taken in this connection. {Page 928, APPENDIX XV -- MINUTES OF MEETING OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE ALLIED PQWIRS IN SAN REMO AT THE VILLA DEVACHAN - APRIL 25. 1920}​• International Boundaries set forth in the Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) ​• International Boundaries set forth in the Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)   ​✦  Each of these represents an agreement made between the Allied Power.  Each time you challenge the validity of these agreements, you challenge the international understanding of the day as to these points of contention.  These represented the powers of the day exerting the authority they had in the day.​
On the matter of:

◈ The larger outcome of the Great War.​•  The Great War ended with the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers dictating the term to the development of the post-War era.  This was not something that the Arab Palestinians wanted to participate in and totally rejected.   The Arab Palestinians, formerly known as the habitual residents of the Enemy Occupied Territory, did not have the authority or the power _(granted by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers)_ to make demands as to the benefit for Arab Palestinians.​
On the matter of:

◈  How do you define immigration?​•  Immigration was defined by the Allied Powers, specifically the Mandatory for the Territory _(within such boundaries as may be fixed)_ established Jewish immigration under their authority.  The Arab Palestinians rejected participation in the governance over the territory and the establishment of self-governing institutions.  They in fact forfeited the opportunity to voice their reservations on any matter of territorial governance.​✦  When you challenge the authority of immigration policy set by the Mandatory Power, you challenge.​✦  The political maturity of the Arab Palestinian to reject participation in governance.​✦  You challenge the authority of the Allied Powers, the victors in the Great War, to establish the terms of the post-War Treaty.​✦  You imply that the Arab Palestinians had some authority of their own in the post-War matters; and imply that the Allied Powers had some obligation to the Arab Palestinians in the matter of what authority Arab Palestinian actually had in the matter of post-War conditions.​✧  The practical effect of the Arab Palestinian rejection by the Arab population of Palestine accept the invitation to cooperate with the Mandatory government​_(beginning in 1922)_ until 1948, established by Arab Default that the High Commissioner was to govern Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials _(no Arab participation by their choice)_.​✧  Similarly, the rejection by the Arab Palestinians to participate in the establishment of an independent state, as recommended in A/RES/181 (II), bars the Arab from coming back at a later time and making an objection as to the outcome.​





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oopsies!
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of UNRWA texts distributed to students _disposable gee-had bots_ in the PA and Gaza madrassah were a bit, how shall we say, “gee-had oriented”? Just an oversight. Nothing to see here. Move along.
> 
> I guess it’s time for UNRWA to beg and plead for more welfare money. Training manuals for the gee-had don’t just fall off the Kuffar tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad
> 
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UNRWA 'mistakenly' gave Palestinian kids textbooks calling for jihad*
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> One Arabic grammar booklet features phrases like “Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise.” Another reads that “The Palestinians are lions in fighting the enemies.”
> 
> 
> The United Nations aid agency for Palestinians said it is “taking steps” to address the glorification of “martyrs” and calls for “jihad” in books it handed out to students.
> 
> UNRWA made the statements Thursday following a report published a day earlier by the Jerusalem-based Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School, or IMPACT-se, saying the books went to hundreds of thousands of students in the Palestinian Authority and Gaza. Many seem to be based on Palestinian Authority resources. Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some mislabel Israel as “Palestine” or erase the country from maps of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maps are borders defining territory. Those maps are geographically correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What maps are “geographically correct”?
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones inside Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...

What maps are ''geographically correct''. 

Indeed, you ducked the question. Indeed, this is another instance of your obfuscating, ducking and dodging.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> E:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: We've come full circle several times now.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem here is that our friend "PF Tinmore" does NOT actually believe in any authority other than that which supports his contention.
> 
> ◈   He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​
> Without a true belief in the language and the meaning of the reality of the day, he is hopelessly locked on this fallacy that concludes he is correct.  And in his world, it is possible for his fallacious deductive powers to establish premises • such that •  argument are true.  He reshapes history by going back more than a century, to a time when the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers made its decisions and facilitated immigration into the territory for the purpose of establishing a Jewish National Home.  And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious as to how you draw your conclusions.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Other than breaking up the Turkish Empire allowing for the creation of new states, what did the war have to do with anything?
> 
> How do you define immigration?
Click to expand...

Indeed, what new states? 

Indeed, shall we call that an islamist talking point?

Indeed, you cannot identify these ''new states''. It seems you have ducked this question every time posed to you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.


OK? SO? Where is the problem?


RoccoR said:


> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.


States are required to have a defined territory.

The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.

Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.

Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
Click to expand...


Israel declared it’s borders on Israeli land and they are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED. Had they been declared on Palestinian land ; then they would not be internationally recognized. 
Once again Tinmore, your inability to accept this does not mean they do not exist (Israel’s land and borders).
You’re living in a fantasy world that is bound by Palestinian propaganda.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
Click to expand...

When did “Palestine” declare independence ? AFTER Israel did. That’s because they did not have their shit together, but Israel did. Too little , too late.... TOO BAD!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
Click to expand...

Where is this "Pal'istanian land'' you are rattling on about? You have never identified any territory that the Arabs-Moslems held sovereignty over.

As seems to be the typical case that you are making the same claims you have been making repetitively and tediously for about a decade now and which have been shown to be false.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Your statement of progression has a critical fault.



P F Tinmore said:


> States are required to have a defined territory.


*(COMMENT)*

It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.  And don't use that lame ass "All Palestine Government" since it did not have a functional government.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

WRONG

This would be wrong.  This was Territory under Mandate and Civil Administration.  The boundaries delineate the territories under Mandate.  Not states.  The boundaries of states were at the discretion of the Allied Powers.

The control of the administration of the "territory of Palestine," (a legal entity) which formerly belonged to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them, NOT the Arab Palestinians. 

“ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS​RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM.  FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”   (January 1948)​​“Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.”​​The Arab Delegation consequently declared that “no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable”.  (April 1920 - Aug 1922)​
Any agreement between the Allied Powers on the matter of boundaries _(as decided by them)_ were NOT subject to Arab Palestinian oversight.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

WRONG

Israel declared Independence on UN Trusteeship territory on the termination of the Government of Palestine (UK).  It was NOT Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.


*(COMMENT)*

This is almost backward.  Israel was defined territory inside the legal entity former territory under the Mandate.  The Arab Palestinians did not establish a government and did not defend any territory they claim as theirs.  Under Article 22, it was territory inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world; not in 1920 _(the beginning of the Civil Administration)_, not in 1948 _(on the eve of the termination of the Mandate)_, and not today _(100 years since the Supreme Council created the territorial mandate)_ still dependent of massive donor contributions.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Her hair and face are visible.
Where is her male relative? Stone her!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> E:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: We've come full circle several times now.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem here is that our friend "PF Tinmore" does NOT actually believe in any authority other than that which supports his contention.
> 
> ◈   He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​
> Without a true belief in the language and the meaning of the reality of the day, he is hopelessly locked on this fallacy that concludes he is correct.  And in his world, it is possible for his fallacious deductive powers to establish premises • such that •  argument are true.  He reshapes history by going back more than a century, to a time when the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers made its decisions and facilitated immigration into the territory for the purpose of establishing a Jewish National Home.  And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious as to how you draw your conclusions.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Other than breaking up the Turkish Empire allowing for the creation of new states, what did the war have to do with anything?
> 
> How do you define immigration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, what new states?
> 
> Indeed, shall we call that an islamist talking point?
> 
> Indeed, you cannot identify these ''new states''. It seems you have ducked this question every time posed to you.
Click to expand...

I have already posted the link with quote naming the new states.

You need to keep up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is this "Pal'istanian land'' you are rattling on about? You have never identified any territory that the Arabs-Moslems held sovereignty over.
> 
> As seems to be the typical case that you are making the same claims you have been making repetitively and tediously for about a decade now and which have been shown to be false.
Click to expand...

I have already posted a UN map showing Palestine's international borders. I have also posted UN documents showing Palestine's international borders.

You need to keep up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her hair and face are visible.
> Where is her male relative? Stone her!!!
Click to expand...

Palestine does not have a dress code.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did “Palestine” declare independence ? AFTER Israel did. That’s because they did not have their shit together, but Israel did. Too little , too late.... TOO BAD!
Click to expand...

You missed the point of my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel declared it’s borders on Israeli land and they are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED. Had they been declared on Palestinian land ; then they would not be internationally recognized.
> Once again Tinmore, your inability to accept this does not mean they do not exist (Israel’s land and borders).
> You’re living in a fantasy world that is bound by Palestinian propaganda.
Click to expand...




toastman said:


> Israel declared it’s borders on Israeli land


Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> States are required to have a defined territory.





RoccoR said:


> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.


Who said?

Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her hair and face are visible.
> Where is her male relative? Stone her!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine does not have a dress code.
Click to expand...


*Palestine does not have a dress code.*

She's not in your imaginary country.

She's an immodest Muslim woman.

Stone her!!!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> E:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: We've come full circle several times now.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So prove otherwise, why can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem here is that our friend "PF Tinmore" does NOT actually believe in any authority other than that which supports his contention.
> 
> ◈   He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."​◈   He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."​
> Without a true belief in the language and the meaning of the reality of the day, he is hopelessly locked on this fallacy that concludes he is correct.  And in his world, it is possible for his fallacious deductive powers to establish premises • such that •  argument are true.  He reshapes history by going back more than a century, to a time when the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers made its decisions and facilitated immigration into the territory for the purpose of establishing a Jewish National Home.  And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."◈ He does NOT believe in the "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am curious as to how you draw your conclusions.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he believes that the immigration was an invasion (an attack) and not part of the larger outcome of the Great War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Other than breaking up the Turkish Empire allowing for the creation of new states, what did the war have to do with anything?
> 
> How do you define immigration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, what new states?
> 
> Indeed, shall we call that an islamist talking point?
> 
> Indeed, you cannot identify these ''new states''. It seems you have ducked this question every time posed to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have already posted the link with quote naming the new states.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

Indeed, that nonsense claim was old years ago and you still repeat it.

What new states? Indeed, they should be easy to identify but you are unable to do so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Pal'istan is a state? 

Link?

Why are the Pals still whining about securing statehood if Pal'istan is already a state?

Link?

Abbas Wants Timetable For Palestinian Statehood

Did your forget to tell Mahmoud about your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory, you know, the conspiracy theory about the Treaty of Lausanne magically creating the 'state of Pal'istan'?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is this "Pal'istanian land'' you are rattling on about? You have never identified any territory that the Arabs-Moslems held sovereignty over.
> 
> As seems to be the typical case that you are making the same claims you have been making repetitively and tediously for about a decade now and which have been shown to be false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have already posted a UN map showing Palestine's international borders. I have also posted UN documents showing Palestine's international borders.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

You have posted several phony maps you claimed showed the borders of something you call "Pal'istan''. Which phony map would you like me to look at?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Abbas mini-caliphate has decided that paying Islamic terrorists to be killed or jailed for acts of Islamic terrorism is more important than paying for vaccines to protect people in the territories occupied by Arabs-Moslems. 





			The Palestinian Authority Is Still Paying Terrorists | Opinion


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pal'istan is a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Why are the Pals still whining about securing statehood if Pal'istan is already a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Abbas Wants Timetable For Palestinian Statehood
> 
> Did your forget to tell Mahmoud about your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory, you know, the conspiracy theory about the Treaty of Lausanne magically creating the 'state of Pal'istan'?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put The Palestinians and Abbas in the same sentence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pal'istan is a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Why are the Pals still whining about securing statehood if Pal'istan is already a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Abbas Wants Timetable For Palestinian Statehood
> 
> Did your forget to tell Mahmoud about your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory, you know, the conspiracy theory about the Treaty of Lausanne magically creating the 'state of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't put The Palestinians and Abbas in the same sentence.
Click to expand...


Still ducking those “new states” you claim exist but can’t identify.

Still ducking that Pal “statehood” issue. Why is the Abbas mini-caliphate whining about ‘statehood’ when according to you, the Magical Kingdom of Pally’land already exists as a state?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pal'istan is a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Why are the Pals still whining about securing statehood if Pal'istan is already a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Abbas Wants Timetable For Palestinian Statehood
> 
> Did your forget to tell Mahmoud about your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory, you know, the conspiracy theory about the Treaty of Lausanne magically creating the 'state of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't put The Palestinians and Abbas in the same sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still ducking those “new states” you claim exist but can’t identify.
> 
> Still ducking that Pal “statehood” issue. Why is the Abbas mini-caliphate whining about ‘statehood’ when according to you, the Magical Kingdom of Pally’land already exists as a state?
Click to expand...

Abbas still believes in Oslo and the two state delusion.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pal'istan is a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Why are the Pals still whining about securing statehood if Pal'istan is already a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Abbas Wants Timetable For Palestinian Statehood
> 
> Did your forget to tell Mahmoud about your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory, you know, the conspiracy theory about the Treaty of Lausanne magically creating the 'state of Pal'istan'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't put The Palestinians and Abbas in the same sentence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still ducking those “new states” you claim exist but can’t identify.
> 
> Still ducking that Pal “statehood” issue. Why is the Abbas mini-caliphate whining about ‘statehood’ when according to you, the Magical Kingdom of Pally’land already exists as a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas still believes in Oslo and the two state delusion.
Click to expand...

Still ducking those “new states” you claim exist but can’t identify.

Still ducking that Pal “statehood” issue. Why is the Abbas mini-caliphate whining about ‘statehood’ when according to you, the Magical Kingdom of Pally’land already exists as a state?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Palestine was the Short Title to the territory to which the Mandate applied. 



RoccoR said:


> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.





P F Tinmore said:


> Who said?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*



			
				Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence •Pg 21 said:
			
		

> Britain ruled Palestine under a military administration until the formation of a civil administration in July 1920. A similar administration in Damascus under the Hashemite Amir Faysal became a de facto Arab State; in March 1920 the General Syrian Congress (which first met in July 1919 and included former Palestinian members of the Ottoman parliament) proclaimed Faysal king of a united Syria, including Lebanon, Palestine, and Transjordan. In Palestine, opposition to British support for Zionism coalesced in the Palestinian Arab Congress in January 1919 and was expressed in civil disturbances in April 1920. That same month the San Remo conference made clear British and French intentions to rule the erstwhile Arab provinces as “Mandates” from the League of Nations, the British Mandate for Palestine incorporating the Balfour Declaration. By the summer, Britain and France cemented their rule, with Britain initiating the civil administration in Palestine and the French expelling Faysal from Syria in July 1920. Ottoman recognition of the San Remo terms was secured by the dictated Treaty of Sèvres the following month.
> SOURCE:   Liminal Loyalties: Ottomanism and Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence, 1919–22 by Awad Halabi • Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.41 No. 3-Spring 2012 from the Institute for Palestine Studies





			
				Extract • APPENDIX XIV • Minutes - 1920 Conference of San Remo Pg 927 said:
			
		

> (b) That the terms of the mandates article should be as follows:-
> 
> The high contracting parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall. in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States. subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powen:
> 
> The high contracting parties agree to entrust; by application of the provisions of article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the
> Principal Allied Power~ to a mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on the 8th [2nd} November. 1917, by the British Government. and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.le, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing nonJewish communities in Palestine; or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country:-


*(COMMENT)*

What you should take away from this is that is that (1) only Syria and Mesopotamia were provisionally recognized and (2) that the British Government intended to "administer" the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.

YOUR QUESTION:  Who said?
ANSWER:  The Supreme Council of Allied Powers_*!*_

At the end of the day, the political efforts and political efforts of the Arab Palestinians were a dismal failure.  And they Arab Palestinians have followed that unsuccessful path for a century.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did “Palestine” declare independence ? AFTER Israel did. That’s because they did not have their shit together, but Israel did. Too little , too late.... TOO BAD!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point of my post.
Click to expand...

Very very nice duck . Why can’t you answer the question ? When did Palestine declare independence, and why is there ZERO information on Palestine’s alleged international borders? 
I can find links for ANY country in the world by typing “ borders of ‘COUNTRY X’ “ , yet there is nothing for Palestine .


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Right of Self-Determination." How many times have you said:• {POSTING #914} The "Right of Self-Determination." applies to people inside their own territory. It does not change territory. • {POSTING # 2572} Palestine's international borders are documented. Israel's borders are say so.
> 
> 
> 
> OK? SO? Where is the problem?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ He does NOT believe in the "Convention on Rights and Duties of States."• {ARTICLE 3} The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.✦ This applies directly to the existence of the Jewish State, whether or not you agree.✦ The National Council for the Jewish State did not require the Arab Palestinians to consent in the establishment of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> States are required to have a defined territory.
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land inside its international borders.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Palestine has a defined territory. Israel does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is this "Pal'istanian land'' you are rattling on about? You have never identified any territory that the Arabs-Moslems held sovereignty over.
> 
> As seems to be the typical case that you are making the same claims you have been making repetitively and tediously for about a decade now and which have been shown to be false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have already posted a UN map showing Palestine's international borders. I have also posted UN documents showing Palestine's international borders.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

The “Tinmore Tactic”:
Instead of actually posting links to back up his claims , he come up with ‘I already posted it, you need to keep up’.

What’s funny is, the opposite is true. He did not post anything to back up his claim, OR he posts something completely unrelated and claims it makes his post true.

Then he asks pro Israelis to post links when they have already done so plenty of times...
PF Tinmore, you truly are a legend ! One of a kind!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Palestine was the Short Title to the territory to which the Mandate applied.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence •Pg 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled Palestine under a military administration until the formation of a civil administration in July 1920. A similar administration in Damascus under the Hashemite Amir Faysal became a de facto Arab State; in March 1920 the General Syrian Congress (which first met in July 1919 and included former Palestinian members of the Ottoman parliament) proclaimed Faysal king of a united Syria, including Lebanon, Palestine, and Transjordan. In Palestine, opposition to British support for Zionism coalesced in the Palestinian Arab Congress in January 1919 and was expressed in civil disturbances in April 1920. That same month the San Remo conference made clear British and French intentions to rule the erstwhile Arab provinces as “Mandates” from the League of Nations, the British Mandate for Palestine incorporating the Balfour Declaration. By the summer, Britain and France cemented their rule, with Britain initiating the civil administration in Palestine and the French expelling Faysal from Syria in July 1920. Ottoman recognition of the San Remo terms was secured by the dictated Treaty of Sèvres the following month.​SOURCE:   Liminal Loyalties: Ottomanism and Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence, 1919–22 by Awad Halabi • Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.41 No. 3-Spring 2012 from the Institute for Palestine Studies​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Extract • APPENDIX XIV • Minutes - 1920 Conference of San Remo Pg 927 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b) That the terms of the mandates article should be as follows:-​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall. in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States. subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powen:​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree to entrust; by application of the provisions of article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the​
> Principal Allied Power~ to a mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on the 8th [2nd} November. 1917, by the British Government. and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.le, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing nonJewish communities in Palestine; or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country:-​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What you should take away from this is that is that (1) only Syria and Mesopotamia were provisionally recognized and (2) that the British Government intended to "administer" the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> YOUR QUESTION:  Who said?
> ANSWER:  The Supreme Council of Allied Powers_*!*_
> 
> At the end of the day, the political efforts and political efforts of the Arab Palestinians were a dismal failure.  And they Arab Palestinians have followed that unsuccessful path for a century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people 

What did that mean?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Palestine was the Short Title to the territory to which the Mandate applied.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence •Pg 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled Palestine under a military administration until the formation of a civil administration in July 1920. A similar administration in Damascus under the Hashemite Amir Faysal became a de facto Arab State; in March 1920 the General Syrian Congress (which first met in July 1919 and included former Palestinian members of the Ottoman parliament) proclaimed Faysal king of a united Syria, including Lebanon, Palestine, and Transjordan. In Palestine, opposition to British support for Zionism coalesced in the Palestinian Arab Congress in January 1919 and was expressed in civil disturbances in April 1920. That same month the San Remo conference made clear British and French intentions to rule the erstwhile Arab provinces as “Mandates” from the League of Nations, the British Mandate for Palestine incorporating the Balfour Declaration. By the summer, Britain and France cemented their rule, with Britain initiating the civil administration in Palestine and the French expelling Faysal from Syria in July 1920. Ottoman recognition of the San Remo terms was secured by the dictated Treaty of Sèvres the following month.​SOURCE:   Liminal Loyalties: Ottomanism and Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence, 1919–22 by Awad Halabi • Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.41 No. 3-Spring 2012 from the Institute for Palestine Studies​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Extract • APPENDIX XIV • Minutes - 1920 Conference of San Remo Pg 927 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b) That the terms of the mandates article should be as follows:-​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall. in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States. subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powen:​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree to entrust; by application of the provisions of article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the​
> Principal Allied Power~ to a mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on the 8th [2nd} November. 1917, by the British Government. and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.le, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing nonJewish communities in Palestine; or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country:-​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What you should take away from this is that is that (1) only Syria and Mesopotamia were provisionally recognized and (2) that the British Government intended to "administer" the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> YOUR QUESTION:  Who said?
> ANSWER:  The Supreme Council of Allied Powers_*!*_
> 
> At the end of the day, the political efforts and political efforts of the Arab Palestinians were a dismal failure.  And they Arab Palestinians have followed that unsuccessful path for a century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where does it say that Palestine was not a state?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Palestine was the Short Title to the territory to which the Mandate applied.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence •Pg 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled Palestine under a military administration until the formation of a civil administration in July 1920. A similar administration in Damascus under the Hashemite Amir Faysal became a de facto Arab State; in March 1920 the General Syrian Congress (which first met in July 1919 and included former Palestinian members of the Ottoman parliament) proclaimed Faysal king of a united Syria, including Lebanon, Palestine, and Transjordan. In Palestine, opposition to British support for Zionism coalesced in the Palestinian Arab Congress in January 1919 and was expressed in civil disturbances in April 1920. That same month the San Remo conference made clear British and French intentions to rule the erstwhile Arab provinces as “Mandates” from the League of Nations, the British Mandate for Palestine incorporating the Balfour Declaration. By the summer, Britain and France cemented their rule, with Britain initiating the civil administration in Palestine and the French expelling Faysal from Syria in July 1920. Ottoman recognition of the San Remo terms was secured by the dictated Treaty of Sèvres the following month.​SOURCE:   Liminal Loyalties: Ottomanism and Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence, 1919–22 by Awad Halabi • Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.41 No. 3-Spring 2012 from the Institute for Palestine Studies​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Extract • APPENDIX XIV • Minutes - 1920 Conference of San Remo Pg 927 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b) That the terms of the mandates article should be as follows:-​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall. in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States. subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powen:​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree to entrust; by application of the provisions of article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the​
> Principal Allied Power~ to a mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on the 8th [2nd} November. 1917, by the British Government. and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.le, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing nonJewish communities in Palestine; or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country:-​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What you should take away from this is that is that (1) only Syria and Mesopotamia were provisionally recognized and (2) that the British Government intended to "administer" the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> YOUR QUESTION:  Who said?
> ANSWER:  The Supreme Council of Allied Powers_*!*_
> 
> At the end of the day, the political efforts and political efforts of the Arab Palestinians were a dismal failure.  And they Arab Palestinians have followed that unsuccessful path for a century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
> 
> What did that mean?
Click to expand...

It meant you don’t understand.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Palestine was the Short Title to the territory to which the Mandate applied.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence •Pg 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled Palestine under a military administration until the formation of a civil administration in July 1920. A similar administration in Damascus under the Hashemite Amir Faysal became a de facto Arab State; in March 1920 the General Syrian Congress (which first met in July 1919 and included former Palestinian members of the Ottoman parliament) proclaimed Faysal king of a united Syria, including Lebanon, Palestine, and Transjordan. In Palestine, opposition to British support for Zionism coalesced in the Palestinian Arab Congress in January 1919 and was expressed in civil disturbances in April 1920. That same month the San Remo conference made clear British and French intentions to rule the erstwhile Arab provinces as “Mandates” from the League of Nations, the British Mandate for Palestine incorporating the Balfour Declaration. By the summer, Britain and France cemented their rule, with Britain initiating the civil administration in Palestine and the French expelling Faysal from Syria in July 1920. Ottoman recognition of the San Remo terms was secured by the dictated Treaty of Sèvres the following month.​SOURCE:   Liminal Loyalties: Ottomanism and Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence, 1919–22 by Awad Halabi • Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.41 No. 3-Spring 2012 from the Institute for Palestine Studies​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Extract • APPENDIX XIV • Minutes - 1920 Conference of San Remo Pg 927 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b) That the terms of the mandates article should be as follows:-​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall. in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States. subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powen:​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree to entrust; by application of the provisions of article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the​
> Principal Allied Power~ to a mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on the 8th [2nd} November. 1917, by the British Government. and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.le, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing nonJewish communities in Palestine; or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country:-​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What you should take away from this is that is that (1) only Syria and Mesopotamia were provisionally recognized and (2) that the British Government intended to "administer" the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> YOUR QUESTION:  Who said?
> ANSWER:  The Supreme Council of Allied Powers_*!*_
> 
> At the end of the day, the political efforts and political efforts of the Arab Palestinians were a dismal failure.  And they Arab Palestinians have followed that unsuccessful path for a century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that Palestine was not a state?
Click to expand...

Was Pal’istan one of those ‘new states’ you can’t identify?


Still ducking those “new states” you claim exist but can’t identify.

Still ducking that Pal “statehood” issue. Why is the Abbas mini-caliphate whining about ‘statehood’ when according to you, the Magical Kingdom of Pally’land already exists as a state?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Palestine was the Short Title to the territory to which the Mandate applied.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not apply to Palestine, as Palestine was not declared a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence •Pg 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain ruled Palestine under a military administration until the formation of a civil administration in July 1920. A similar administration in Damascus under the Hashemite Amir Faysal became a de facto Arab State; in March 1920 the General Syrian Congress (which first met in July 1919 and included former Palestinian members of the Ottoman parliament) proclaimed Faysal king of a united Syria, including Lebanon, Palestine, and Transjordan. In Palestine, opposition to British support for Zionism coalesced in the Palestinian Arab Congress in January 1919 and was expressed in civil disturbances in April 1920. That same month the San Remo conference made clear British and French intentions to rule the erstwhile Arab provinces as “Mandates” from the League of Nations, the British Mandate for Palestine incorporating the Balfour Declaration. By the summer, Britain and France cemented their rule, with Britain initiating the civil administration in Palestine and the French expelling Faysal from Syria in July 1920. Ottoman recognition of the San Remo terms was secured by the dictated Treaty of Sèvres the following month.​SOURCE:   Liminal Loyalties: Ottomanism and Palestinian Responses to the Turkish War of Independence, 1919–22 by Awad Halabi • Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.41 No. 3-Spring 2012 from the Institute for Palestine Studies​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Extract • APPENDIX XIV • Minutes - 1920 Conference of San Remo Pg 927 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b) That the terms of the mandates article should be as follows:-​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall. in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognised as independent States. subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powen:​
> ​
> The high contracting parties agree to entrust; by application of the provisions of article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the​
> Principal Allied Power~ to a mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on the 8th [2nd} November. 1917, by the British Government. and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.le, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing nonJewish communities in Palestine; or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country:-​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> What you should take away from this is that is that (1) only Syria and Mesopotamia were provisionally recognized and (2) that the British Government intended to "administer" the territory under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> YOUR QUESTION:  Who said?
> ANSWER:  The Supreme Council of Allied Powers_*!*_
> 
> At the end of the day, the political efforts and political efforts of the Arab Palestinians were a dismal failure.  And they Arab Palestinians have followed that unsuccessful path for a century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that Palestine was not a state?
Click to expand...

Do you agree that in regards to the question of Palestine being a country or not, there is no grey area? Meaning that Palestine is either a country or it isn’t. Correct ?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* This is another one of those things you periodically ask for, but entirely ignore.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where does it say that Palestine was not a state?


*(ANSWER)*

◈  A/AC.21/UK/42   *25 February 1948   MEMORANDUM “A”*  LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE”
✦  After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a_ *legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state*_ because it will not be immediately self-governing.​
◈  UN Memorandum   *11 December 2012    Issues Related to General Assembly Resolution 67/19* on the Status of Palestine in the UN   
​Keyphrase:  *"Palestine was not identified as a State or a Country"*​


​This endless trek you are making is so readily made unsound or invalid _(sometimes both)_, it is signaling (loud and clear) the desperation of the Arab Palestinian on this point and the importance it carries. Try not to lose this Posting, you may need it again.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

non self governing territory


RoccoR said:


> ✦ After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a_ *legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state*_ because it will not be immediately self-governing.


So Britain is saying that Palestine (all of Palestine) is a non self governing territory (NSGT).
-------------------------------
Chapter XI of the UN Charter - the Declaration regarding Non-Self-Governing Territories - provides that Member States administering Territories, which have not attained self-government recognize "that the interests of the inhabitants of these Territories are paramount" and accept as a "sacred trust" the obligation to promote their well-being.

Chapter IX urged the administering Powers concerned to take effective measures to safeguard and guarantee the inalienable rights of the peoples of the Non-Self-Governing Territories to their natural resources, including land, and to establish and maintain control over the future development of those resources, and requested the Administering Powers to take all necessary steps to protect the property rights of the peoples of those Territories. 

Administering Powers, in addition to ensuring the political, economic, social and educational advancement of the peoples, undertake to assist them in developing self-government and democratic political institutions. Administering Powers have an obligation to transmit regularly to the Secretary-General information on the economic, social and educational conditions in the Territories under their administration.

Chapter IX also urged all States, directly and through their action in the specialized agencies and other organizations of the United Nations system, to provide moral and material assistance to the peoples of the Non-Self-Governing Territories.









						International Week of Non-Self-Governing Territories | United Nations
					

In the UN Charter, a Non-Self-Governing Territory is defined as a Territory whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government.




					www.un.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Wow, you started reading. Great! • Yes, between the establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and the end of the British Civil Administration _(Government of Palestine)_ the entirety of the territory under the Mandate (less Jordan which was already granted Independence in 1946) was Non-Self-Governing.



P F Tinmore said:


> non self governing territory





RoccoR said:


> ✦ After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a_ *legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state*_ because it will not be immediately self-governing.





P F Tinmore said:


> So Britain is saying that Palestine (all of Palestine) is a non self governing territory (NSGT).


*(COMMENT)*

The British MEMO was written in early 1948.  At the time, the timeline schedule for establishing self-governance was "August" 1948.  That means that if everything went according to the schedule _[A/RES/181 (II) Part I Section "A" • Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948.]_ then self-governance would not (in all probability given the situation in February when the Memo was written) yet be in place by 15 MAY 1948.  Meaning when the Mandate terminated in May, although Provisional Governments (Jewish and Arab) would have been established in April, independence _(self-governance) _would not be established by then _[The Trustee Territory of Palestine would still be a Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT)]_.  But as we now know, after the fact, that the Mandate terminated earlier than the Resolution called for.

In any event, the establishment of the State of Israel by the National Council for the Jewish State made that aspect of the territory formerly under the Mandate, "Self-governing."  There was no such possibility for the Arabs of Palestine to establish independence, and thus that portion of the territory would still be an NSGT.  As you know now, the Occupation by the Arab League retarded Arabs of Palestine in the establishment of independence.

Things change over time.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

I never expected such action from House members so let's hope this gets some sponsorship. 









						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				





Two US congressmen on Thursday re-introduced the Palestinian International Terrorism Support Prevention Act, a motion imposing sanctions on persons, agencies and governments that financially assist Palestinian terror groups Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, or their proxies and affiliates.

The bill's co-sponsors were New Jersey Democratic House representative Josh Gottheimer and Florida Republican Brian Mast. 

The bipartisan motion, also known as House Resolution 1850, seeks “to impose sanctions with respect to foreign support for Palestinian terrorism, and for other purposes.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Abbas still believes in Oslo and the two state delusion.



Link?


----------



## Hollie

Suha Arafat is keepin' it real. Real ironic.

While living large on Yassir's stolen billions, she's lecturing Mahmoud about his 
mini-caliphate. 

I'm sure she just wants the best for the Pals... from the safety of her distance away from them.












						EXCLUSIVE – Suha Arafat: ‘Abu Mazen Must Leave Like Trump, Govt. Has Nazi Characteristics and is Based on Fear’
					

“We also deserve a change of presidents like in the United States,” Suha Arafat, Yasser Arafat’s widow, told TPS in a phone conversation, and demanded that Palestinian Authority head Mahmoud Abb




					www.jewishpress.com
				




“We also deserve a change of presidents like in the United States,” Suha Arafat, Yasser Arafat’s widow, told TPS in a phone conversation, and demanded that Palestinian Authority head Mahmoud Abbas leave after 15 years in power and four presidential terms in the US.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally Death Cult may be auditioning for some snappy melodies to define their ''culture''. Some snappy themes about martyrdom and Jew killing seem to dominate the Islamic terrorist top 40. 





*Which songs define Palestinian “cultural and… national identity”? ‎*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 24, 2021
*The PA’s “cultural and… national identity” are songs about rifles, violence, ‎murderers, and martyrdom:*

*“I'm coming with my rifle… I’m coming towards you, my enemy”  *
*‎“Take my blood… The Martyrs’ blood illuminates our path”  *
*Murderers of Jews in 1929 are “noble heroes”*
*PA misrepresents photo of three Syrian independence leaders hung by ‎Turkish Ottoman forces in 1916 as Arab murderers hung by the British in ‎‎1930. Those three had “committed particularly brutal murders [of Jews] at Safed ‎and Hebron” [British Government report]. The PA defines their brutal ‎murders as "the most wondrous things in the pages of the [history of ‎the] struggle against the invading occupiers. They are the noble heroes ‎of Palestine.”‎*
*

*


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. Here I was thinking that the “country of Pal’istan” (_Where Dreams Come True™_) was sufficiently brutalized by the competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates.

Maybe the Pals need an Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi type to step in and sort things out.










						‘Tribal justice’ in Palestine outflanks official legal system
					

Rights groups argue tribal justice fails to provide fair trials and imposes collective punishment.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





*Tribal justice*
“Jalweh” is the eviction of the family of the perpetrator of a crime from their homes and exiling them outside the victim’s area.


A traditional practice, it is often imposed by tribal leaders in murder cases under the pretext of stopping the bloodshed and maintaining civil peace.

Palestinians have resorted to the social phenomenon of settling disputes outside state courts as the alternative to dealing with Israeli courts seen as being set up by an occupying force or with Palestinian courts which people are trusting less and less. Tribal justice is seen as the alternative by many – but it comes at a price.

Tribal justice derives its provisions from tribal traditions and cultural heritage, but many argue that it undermines the rule of law.

Human rights groups say it compromises justice for stability, does not provide for fair trials, discriminates against women, and imposes collective punishment.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Chapter IX also urged all States, directly and through their action in the specialized agencies and other organizations of the United Nations system, to provide moral and material assistance to the peoples of the Non-Self-Governing Territories.


How would you describe the billions of dollars in endless welfare payments to the UNRWA welfare fraud?


----------



## Hollie

Looks like a part of the Middle East is a little bit safer today. 










						Israel Opens Embassy in UAE, Expanding New Relations
					

JERUSALEM—Israel on Sunday said it has opened its embassy in the United Arab Emirates, following through on last year’s U.S.-brokered agreement to establish full diplomatic ties with the Gulf country. Israel’s Foreign Ministry said the embassy would be in a temporary office while a permanent...




					mb.ntd.com
				




JERUSALEM—Israel on Sunday said it has opened its embassy in the United Arab Emirates, following through on last year’s U.S.-brokered agreement to establish full diplomatic ties with the Gulf country.

Israel’s Foreign Ministry said the embassy would be in a temporary office while a permanent location is prepared. Eitan Na’eh, a veteran Israeli diplomat, will serve as the head of mission.

Foreign Minister Gabi Ashkenazi said the opening of the new embassy would allow the broadening of what already are warm ties between Israel and the UAE.


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats. 




*‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021

*Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
*“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*



Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎


Give me liberty or give me death.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
Click to expand...


You define liberty - absence of Jews,
and my mere presence an act of war.

Take death 'Amalek.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You define liberty - absence of Jews,
> and my mere presence an act of war.
> 
> Take death 'Amalek.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
Click to expand...


That's so cute. But really, shouldn't you be using a more carefully crafted slogan such as "Give me UNRWA welfare or I'll push more children into the raging bonfire of the islamist gee-had"


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



A most compelling response. 

Anything yet on those ''new states''?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You define liberty - absence of Jews,
> and my mere presence an act of war.
> 
> Take death 'Amalek.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What, lost on words?
Beware of the alternatives you choose.

Or you're going to pretend that you don't justify suicide attacks by mere presence of Jews in places you consider them foreign? Like that coffee shop we were discussing here?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You define liberty - absence of Jews,
> and my mere presence an act of war.
> 
> Take death 'Amalek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, lost on words?
> Beware of the alternatives you choose.
> 
> Or you're going to pretend that you don't justify suicide attacks by mere presence of Jews in places you consider them foreign? Like that coffee shop we were discussing here?
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with Jews.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You define liberty - absence of Jews,
> and my mere presence an act of war.
> 
> Take death 'Amalek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, lost on words?
> Beware of the alternatives you choose.
> 
> Or you're going to pretend that you don't justify suicide attacks by mere presence of Jews in places you consider them foreign? Like that coffee shop we were discussing here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with Jews.
Click to expand...


Indeed, it has everything to do with Jews.

Indeed, your heroes in Hamas wrote a diatribe about it.


----------



## Hollie

If the PFLP has their way, elections for the next dictator in the areas occupied by the various Islamic terrorist groups may never happen.

It’s difficult to know where Iran may take a position in support of the PFLP. Iranian interests may ultimately lie in fostering any conflict among the Sunni tribes. 










						Palestine group says news about election false
					

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said Saturday that reports about a decision on elections before any national dialogue is not true, Anadolu Agency reports.    A statement by the gro...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said Saturday that reports about a decision on elections before any national dialogue is not true, _Anadolu Agency _reports.

A statement by the group said the election decision did not constitute a guarantee for an end to internal Palestine division.

It stressed that national interests require prioritisation of national dialogue to address various political and organizational issues and rules of national partnership.


----------



## Hollie

Great. "Tribal justice''. Maybe they can legitimize ''honor'' killings through tribal courts. 




*Palestinian tribal justice system gaining strength*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You define liberty - absence of Jews,
> and my mere presence an act of war.
> 
> Take death 'Amalek.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, lost on words?
> Beware of the alternatives you choose.
> 
> Or you're going to pretend that you don't justify suicide attacks by mere presence of Jews in places you consider them foreign? Like that coffee shop we were discussing here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with Jews.
Click to expand...


How reassuring...


----------



## Hollie

Pally tribal wars sounds like a real possibility. Iran has interests in whomever becomes the new dictator of the Pal occupied territories so things could get volatile very quickly. 





			Palestinian Elections are in Sight, but Prospects for Reform Remain Slim | Opinion
		


With the recent decree by Mahmoud Abbas to hold Palestinian general and presidential elections later this year, the issue of Palestinian political unity comes back to the surface. Abbas, who is 85 years old, is in the 16th year of his four-year term and presides over a population divided into several territories and under different political forces.


----------



## rylah

Remember pro-Palestinian morons complaining about_ "Israeli version of history"_,
whenever met with facts contradicting their insanity?

Well...









						Palestinians Claim 'Big Ben' Was Palestinian
					

Another day, another ridiculous palestinian claim - this time Big Ben is in their sights




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah TV host will be distributing rocks, slingshots and ''Make the Gee-had Great Again'', ''Make Your Children Dead'', hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‎**“Those representing Palestine must be prepared to sacrifice blood” ‎ ‎– Fatah official*
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 25, 2021
> 
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *“With our skulls we will pave the path to victory, until the liberation of ‎Palestine” - Father of murderer echoes arch-terrorist Abu Jihad*
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎
> 
> 
> 
> Give me liberty or give me death.
Click to expand...

When you stole that slogan, you intended the “we” part really means “others, not me, personally”.

Internet gee-had wannabes are something of a joke.

I suppose you didn’t realize that the ‘quote’ you stole was in the context of shedding religious persecution and totalitarianism, not imposing it as Islamic terrorists wish to do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian refugees: What do you know about the villages you come from?*


----------



## rylah

*PA Prime Minister Shtayyeh Compares Jesus to Suicide Bombers*






The Palestinian Authority’s (PA) Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh said that Jesus was “the first Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter” and the one who taught Palestinians “Martyrdom-death,” comparing him to suicide bombers.

In a speech at a Christmas dinner last week, Shtayyeh called Jesus “the first Palestinian self-sacrificing fighter from whom we learned Martyrdom-death, and who paid for his mission with his life.”


Reporting on the incident, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), a watchdog that monitors incitement in the PA media, noted that Shtayyeh used the expression “Fida’i,” used for terrorists who have been fighting Israel since 1965.

“Defining Jesus who preached non-violence as a ‘self-sacrificing fighter’ in the category with Palestinian murderers is a desecration,” PMW stated Sunday.

Furthermore, the PA’s presentation of Jesus as one who taught Palestinians “Martyrdom-death,” is “a grave insult to Christians as well, since the PA promotes Martyrdom-death as something to be aspired due to the rewards in Paradise, among which according to Islam’s tradition the ‘Martyr’ marries 72 dark-eyed virgins,” the PMW further noted.

Moreover, Shtayyeh linked Jesus’ Martyrdom to the “thousands of Martyrs” who have died for “Palestine.”

“The birthday of our Lord Jesus… takes place at the same time as the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution [its first terror attack against Israel in 1965], for which thousands of Martyrs have paid with their lives,” said Shayyeh at the dinner.

“Linking Jesus to the thousands of Palestinian ‘Martyrs,’ which is the term the PA uses to define all its suicide bombers as well as all terrorists who were killed while attacking Israelis, is yet an additional desecration of Christianity,” PMW underscored.

Finally, Shtayyeh’s reference to Jesus as “a Palestinian” is “an insult to Christianity, as the Christian Bible clearly presents Jesus as a Jew living and interacting with other Jews in the nation of Judea,” PMW added.

PMW noted that especially around Christmas time, but not exclusively, PA leaders repeatedly publicize their false narrative that Jesus was a “Palestinian.”

PMW has documented the PA’ historical revision and anachronism. which falsely connects the Palestinian Authority’s population to a fabricated ancient Palestinian nation.

While Christian tradition and the historical writings of the period portray Jesus as a Jewish rabbi living in the land of Judea in Israel, the PA consistently claims that Jesus was “the first Palestinian.”









						PA Prime Minister Shtayyeh Compares Jesus to Suicide Bombers
					

Shtayyeh said that Jesus taught Palestinians “Martyrdom-death,” comparing him to suicide bombers.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




(Comment)

I guess everyone remembers Jesus' famous sermon:

_ "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek -
send to them your other daughter in a suicide vest"

-  New Yasser Arafat International Bible_​


----------



## rylah

*Kafr ad Dik Town Profile

Location and Physical Characteristics*
Rafat is a Palestinian village in the Salfit Governorate located 13 km west of Salfit City. It is bordered by Kafr ad Dik village to the east, Deir Ballut to the south, Kafr Qasem (of 1948 lands) to the west, and Az Zawiya town to the north (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

*History*
Kafr ad Dik town is said to be named after a man called “Ad Dik” who is believed to have come from the Arabian Peninsula and lived in the Jordan Valley area for a period of time before he moved to the town and settled in it. Prior to his arrival the region was called “Kafir Ben Muhanna.”_ *The town was established in 1700 with its residents descending from Arab al Masa‟id tribe from the Arabian Peninsula (Kafr ad Dik Municipality, 2012).*_









*Palestinian Society Applied Research Institute - Kafr ad Dik*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian refugees: What do you know about the villages you come from?*



A false premise you typically press.


----------



## Hollie

Some rather starkly honest assessments coming from aljazerra.

It’s worth noting that “democracy” as a reference to western style democratic republics has never existed in theocratic totalitarian style Islamic models of governing. The warlord, the Emir, Imam, Ayatollah, the tribal leader, etc., has defined Islamic tribal life. 











						Palestinian elections: Democracy for no one
					

There is much reason to believe the Palestinian elections scheduled for later this year will neither be free nor fair.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




There is much reason to believe the Palestinian elections scheduled for later this year will neither be free nor fair.

After many similar announcements that did not come to fruition, and in light of the PA’s increasing authoritarianism, the sincerity of this move is doubtful. Not only has upholding democratic principles never been a priority for the PA, but both the PA and Abbas’s current approval ratings are abysmal. This begs the question: Why announce elections now?


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank are doing Islamo high-fives as the infidels in Washington are going to tacitly and literally endorse acts of Islamic terrorism.

Infidel cash to fuel the gee-had. Super!











						Palestinians applaud renewal of ties with US
					

A senior Palestinian official in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that the Palestinians were “deeply satisfied” by the US official’s announcement.




					m.jpost.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: What do you learn about the Jews?*


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinians: What do you learn about the Jews?*










						Fatah: Murder of 11 Israeli athletes at Olympics was “quality operation” | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah about terror commander: “A beacon guiding… the path to ‎liberation”‎




					palwatch.org
				














						PA: Beware “alliance with the Jews… obedience to the Jews” | PMW Analysis
					

“There is nothing that harms Palestine and its holy sites more than making an alliance with the Jews”




					palwatch.org
				














						Abbas’ advisor praises rock thrower: “May his hands be blessed”‎ | PMW Analysis
					

PA: “Rocks frighten the Israelis” – praise for rock thrower




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

I'm afraid that Joe Biden's vision of ''the show'' is a return to decades of failed policies that achieved very little. Rewarding Islamic terrorism with boatloads of cash, ''Roadmaps to Nowhere'' and policies that encouraged Pally intransigence have a history of failure.

It was finally an individual, President Trump, who knew how to make deals who made progress for Middle East peace between Arab nations and Israel. He knew that Arab nations and Israel have much to gain with mutually beneficial trade and business agreements. 

The Pallys were largely yesterday's news. I hope the rabid Dems don't undue the Trump gains. 






			Biden to Israel and Palestine, the show must go on


----------



## Hollie

More hilarity from the Arab-Moslem industry of falsehood




*PA fake news in real-time: 12 hours after terror attack, PA presents ‎terrorist as murder victim*









						PA fake news in real-time: 12 hours after terror attack, PA presents ‎terrorist as murder victim | PMW Analysis
					

As a rule the PA presents killed terrorists as innocent “Martyrs,” falsely ‎claiming that Israel “executes them in cold blood.” ‎




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus  | Jan 29, 2021

A 17-year-old Palestinian terrorist attacked an Israeli female soldier and tried ‎to stab her. Another soldier shot and killed the terrorist.‎
But by the next morning, the PA had already rewritten history: ‎


> “The Israeli occupation forces… *executed a young person* at a ‎junction next to the village of Hares, west of Salfit… ‎
> Young Atallah Muhammad Rayyan, 17, from Qarawat Bani Hassan ‎*died as a Martyr after being shot by the occupation’s soldiers while ‎he was at the junction* near the village of Hares.”‎


In the entire article the PA did not mention that the “Martyr” was actually a ‎terrorist who attempted to murder. Nor was this mentioned in a second article ‎in the official PA daily about the attack.‎

Palestinian Media Watch has exposed many other examples of PA fake ‎news in real time. When an Israeli soldier tried to protect Palestinian ‎journalists and instructed them to move to safety across the road to avoid ‎oncoming cars, the PA TV reporter mistranslated the soldier’s words into a ‎racist statement, claiming they were told to move because it was not a road ‎for Palestinians: ‎



As a rule the PA presents killed terrorists as innocent “Martyrs,” falsely ‎claiming that Israel “executes them in cold blood.” ‎


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*What if YOU are a Pally *


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian tiktoks because we support Palestine*


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian Terrorism because it’s what those psychopaths do. *


----------



## Hollie

For Pal Death Cultists, it’s a way to remember and to celebrate their abysmal failures.

In the diseased psyche of the Arab-Moslem Cultist, Dalal al-Mughrabi was a hero and and ‘Jesus was the first Palestinian martyr.’

An invented people with an invented “national identity” co-opting the religious figure of a faith they despise. 











						Palestinians launch ‘Martyrs’ Day’ tree-planting program honoring terrorists
					

The opening ceremony in Ramallah, attended by Palestinian officials, honored former Palestinian Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Fathi al-Shaqaqi, Dalal al-Mughrabi and others • P.A. daily: ‘Jesus was the first Palestinian martyr.’




					www.jns.org
				




The opening ceremony in Ramallah, attended by Palestinian officials, honored former Palestinian Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Fathi al-Shaqaqi, Dalal al-Mughrabi and others • P.A. daily: ‘Jesus was the first Palestinian martyr.’


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The gee-had requires sacrifices... except for those at the top of the islamo-pyramid.


----------



## Hollie

We have a candidate for the gee-had breeding program.

Palestinian Student: We Hope the Day Will Come When We See Israeli Bodies Floating in Sea of Galilee


----------



## Hollie

*STARK WARNING ALERT!*

So, the _Pally Welfare Fraud Scheme_ (sometimes referred to as the PA), is whining about their wants and desires for high speed internet not being met. Apparently, they feel their perceived entitlement to that service not being provided means that others are expected to stop being _racist_ and _Islamophobic _and provide that service. 

Don't you dare ask "where did the welfare money go" (the welfare money heaped on the Islamic terrorist franchises, yeah, that money). Asking that question could cause you to commit that unpardonable sin of "hurting Moslem's feelings" 


*Palestinian Authority issues a stark warning of digital economy tardiness because of deprivation of 4G and 5G spectrum for Palestine*









						Palestinian Authority issues a stark warning of digital economy tardiness because of deprivation of 4G and 5G spectrum for Palestine
					

Press release content from PR Newswire. The AP news staff was not involved in its creation.




					apnews.com
				




RAMALLAH, Palestine, Jan. 28, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- The Palestinian Authority issued a strong warning that Palestine’s momentum towards the digital economy is falling behind due to Israel’s control over access to the 4G/5G spectrum. This continued deprivation of access to the necessary spectrum will have negative economic and social consequences, especially as Covid-19 is transitioning the Palestine society to digital life across key sectors and the current broadband infrastructure is not enough.


----------



## Hollie

Sounds like a plan. 

Sounds like the type of “leader” the Pally’s deserve. 









						Palestine elections: Marwan Barghouti eyes presidential run from behind Israeli bars
					

While his candidacy has yet to be officially confirmed, the popular Palestinian leader is reportedly in talks with his fractured party, Fatah




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




Palestine elections: Marwan Barghouti eyes presidential run from behind Israeli bars


----------



## Hollie

The Canadian government has, at least for the moment, decided that the fraud and mismanagement of Canadian welfare money by UNRWA is something that should be looked at.











						UNRWA fundamentally and knowingly breaches agreement that allowed renewed Canadian Aid | PMW Analysis
					

The Canadian International Development Minister has announced the launch of a Canadian investigation into United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).




					palwatch.org
				





*UNRWA fundamentally and knowingly breaches agreement that allowed renewed Canadian Aid*

Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 1, 2021
The Canadian International Development Minister has announced the launch of a Canadian investigation into United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). The investigation will focus on “educational materials used last year to support Palestinian refugee children during pandemic-related school closures in the West Bank and Gaza, [which] contained references that violated UN values of human rights, tolerance, neutrality and non-discrimination.” According to the statement of the minister that appears on the website of the Government of Canada, the investigation will focus on how the materials came to be used in the UNWRA schools and serve “to reinforce UNRWA’s corrective actions, monitoring and oversight in the future.”


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> We have a candidate for the gee-had breeding program.
> 
> Palestinian Student: We Hope the Day Will Come When We See Israeli Bodies Floating in Sea of Galilee


I would love to know what Tinmore thinks about this video.
When I see Palestinians making comments like “Israelis will be afraid”, it just strengthens my beliefs about how Palestinians are delirious. They are living on a planet that is not called earth.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Arabs-Moslems. They’re still waiting for the Iraqi’s to  liberate them.

A day late and a Saddham Hussein too short. 



*Palestinian Ambassador To Iraq Dr. Ahmad 'Aql: I Have Dealings With The PMU; When I Was Little, I Was Told Palestine's Liberators Would Come From The East*


----------



## Hollie

Bestow “honor” on your home-grown psychopaths. Plant a tree to celebrate their mental disease. 


*PA plants trees to honor 35,000 “Martyrs” – including all suicide bombers*

Itamar Marcus & Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 2, 2021




*The PA reaffirms its commitment to its mass murderers*
*PA tree planting initiative teaches youth that terrorist murderers are ‎‎“sanctified” and “eternally remain in our hearts”*
*Abbas’ Advisor: “The initiative… honors the Martyrs, who are the most ‎precious thing we have in our history”‎*
*“Every day we will grow a tree, every day we will grow a Martyr” - Father of ‎terrorist “Martyr”*
*PMW has notified the Israeli authorities of the possible violation of Israel's ‎laws  ‎*
The Palestinian Authority has launched a project to honor all Palestinians who have ‎died as so-called “Martyrs” since 1917. The PA will eventually plant 35,000 olive trees ‎throughout the PA areas with each tree named after a “Martyr.” The PA defines all ‎terrorists killed while attacking Israelis - including suicide bombers and mass murderers ‎‎- as “Martyrs.” This is the largest systematic PA project to honor terrorist murderers that ‎Palestinian Media Watch has ever documented. ‎


----------



## Hollie

It’s quite a delusion to press the narrative that Arabs-Moslems killed in acts of splodeydope suicide bombing, gee-had stabbing attacks aimed at Jews, gee-had rock chuckers, border riots, the balloon gee-had, rocket / mortar attacks and the various attacks aimed at Israel are really just egregious incidents of innocent Islamic terrorist psychopaths “executed by Israel” for no reason. 












						A new chapter in the PA’s fictitious narrative of victimhood:‎ Terrorists are innocent, “executed by Israel” for no reason | PMW Analysis
					

PA Prime Minister feeds the libel, claims two terrorist stabbers were ‎‎“executed” by Israel according to policy of “opening fire to kill”‎




					palwatch.org
				




*A new chapter in the PA’s fictitious narrative of victimhood:‎ Terrorists are innocent, “executed by Israel” for no reason*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 4, 2021

*PA Prime Minister’s libel: Two terrorist stabbers were ‎“executed” by Israel*
*One terrorist just “crossed the road and they executed him”‎*
*Another terrorist was “shot... while he was in the area”‎*
*PA demonization: “The children are dying from ‎the bullets of [Israeli] soldiers who are filled with hatred towards ‎everything Palestinian” *



When 17-year-old Palestinian Atallah Rayyan was shot and killed while trying to ‎stab and murder an Israeli soldier last week, the PA was quick to put out fake news, ‎telling Palestinians he was “executed.” ‎
Right away, the PA utilized the so-called “Martyrdom”-death of a terrorist to further its ‎narrative of victimhood, according to which every problem, crisis, and hardship is ‎Israel's fault. ‎
It follows that when young Palestinians heed the PA’s teachings and carry out “an ‎operation,” attacking Israeli soldiers with knives and getting killed in the process, ‎they are innocent according to the PA. ‎
Last week two such stabbings took place, and in both cases the Palestinian terrorist ‎stabbers were killed when Israeli soldiers defended themselves. But the Palestinian ‎public is told that they were innocent and just happened to be near the soldiers who ‎‎– according to the PA libel about Israeli policy – shoot to kill young Palestinians for ‎no reason. ‎
This whitewashing of attempted murder is coming from the very top of the PA: No ‎less than Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh fed the libel, repeating the lie that ‎Israel has a policy of “summary executions”: ‎


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Why is Gaza sleepless?


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.










						IDF: Early Morning Terror Attack Thwarted
					

The Israeli military said Friday that a Palestinian man was shot and killed in the early morning hours while he attempted to break into a settler home in the West Bank – biblical Judea and Samaria.




					www1.cbn.com
				




JERUSALEM, Israel – The Israeli military said Friday that a Palestinian man was shot and killed in the early morning hours while he attempted to break into a settler home in the West Bank – biblical Judea and Samaria.




There will be a street naming ceremony held by the Islamic terrorist franchises. A Cul de sac - ”Dead Gee-hadee Way”.


----------



## Hollie

I guess the Israeli decision to provide the Pallys with 5,000 doses of vaccine for the Wuhan virus didn’t meet what the Pallys expected as their entitlement. 

I suppose there’s no reason to expect the Pallys would spend their welfare money on medicines as opposed to weapons for the gee-had. 











						Israel’s decision to give 5,000 vaccine doses to Palestinian health workers is wholly inadequate, rights group says
					

The Palestinian territories are home to just over 5 million people.




					www.cnbc.com
				




Israel’s decision to give 5,000 doses of the coronavirus vaccine to Palestinian frontline health workers is being criticized by Palestinians and rights groups as insufficient and falling short of the country’s obligations.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> I guess the Israeli decision to provide the Pallys with 5,000 doses of vaccine for the Wuhan virus didn’t meet what the Pallys expected as their entitlement.
> 
> I suppose there’s no reason to expect the Pallys would spend their welfare money on medicines as opposed to weapons for the gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s decision to give 5,000 vaccine doses to Palestinian health workers is wholly inadequate, rights group says
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories are home to just over 5 million people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s decision to give 5,000 doses of the coronavirus vaccine to Palestinian frontline health workers is being criticized by Palestinians and rights groups as insufficient and falling short of the country’s obligations.



*insufficient and falling short of the country’s obligations. *

Israel is a country?


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the Israeli decision to provide the Pallys with 5,000 doses of vaccine for the Wuhan virus didn’t meet what the Pallys expected as their entitlement.
> 
> I suppose there’s no reason to expect the Pallys would spend their welfare money on medicines as opposed to weapons for the gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s decision to give 5,000 vaccine doses to Palestinian health workers is wholly inadequate, rights group says
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories are home to just over 5 million people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s decision to give 5,000 doses of the coronavirus vaccine to Palestinian frontline health workers is being criticized by Palestinians and rights groups as insufficient and falling short of the country’s obligations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *insufficient and falling short of the country’s obligations. *
> 
> Israel is a country?
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for P F Tinmore to post a youtube video on the matter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Faith, Abolition, and Socialism w/ **Linda Sarsour** & Rev. Andrew Wilkes*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Faith, Abolition, and Socialism w/ **Linda Sarsour** & Rev. Andrew Wilkes*


Should be a hoot, Are you going? If you check kuffar Priceline.com you can probably find good deals on lodging at a kuffar Holiday Inn Express.  Take some video of you and the fine folks doing the fist-pumping ''Death to America'' chant.


----------



## Hollie

I'm crushed, My faith in Islamic terrorism as a noble struggle struggle is dashed. 

We should give the Islamic terrorists more welfare money and that will fix things.












						Palestine’s First Elections in 15 Years are No Gift to Joe Biden
					

The calling for elections should not be seen as an attempt at garnering favor in the eyes of the new U.S. president, but quite differently, as a mechanism for Mahmoud Abbas to reassert dominance and ensure his position as the unequivocal leader of the Palestinian Authority.




					nationalinterest.org
				




The calling for elections should not be seen as an attempt at garnering favor in the eyes of the new U.S. president, but quite differently, as a mechanism for Mahmoud Abbas to reassert dominance and ensure his position as the unequivocal leader of the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## Hollie

Different day, same Islamic terrorist misfit.









						Who said Palestinians are victims of “a second holocaust” and Netanyahu is “the ugly face of Mussolini and Hitler”? | PMW Analysis
					

Possible successor of Abbas, Jibril Rajoub: Israelis are “murderers,” committing “a second holocaust” against the Palestinians




					palwatch.org
				




*Who said Palestinians are victims of “a second holocaust” and Netanyahu is “the ugly face of Mussolini and Hitler”?*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 7, 2021
*Possible successor of Abbas, Jibril Rajoub:*

*Israelis are “murderers,” committing “a second holocaust” against the Palestinians*
*Netanyahu is “the ugly face of Mussolini and Hitler”*
*PA TV sermon:*

*Israel is “avenging its gas ovens” by “attacking” the Palestinian people*
One of the PA officials mentioned as a possible successor of PA Chairman Abbas is Jibril Rajoub. Rajoub holds a range of positions in the PA, one of which is Fatah Central Committee Secretary. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Rajoub is fond of belittling the crimes of the Nazis against the Jews in WWII by comparing Israelis to Nazis.
Thus Rajoub recently referred to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as “the ugly face of Mussolini and Hitler.” While he did acknowledge the Holocaust against the Jews and others in WWII, Rajoub claimed that Israel is doing “what happened to them to the Palestinians”:


----------



## Hollie

With the ICC being toothless in terms of any judgement it may come to against Israel, it seems that Facetime before the press is the best they can hope for.

Such a waste of time. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/02/08/6-steps-biden-should-take-to-hold-the-icc-palestinian-leaders-accountable/
		



In a video statement released by his office, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu blasted the decision. "The ICC has again proved that it is a political body – not a judicial institution," he said. "The ICC ignores the real war crimes and instead pursues the State of Israel, a state with a strong democratic government that sanctifies the rule of law, and is not a member of the ICC."

He went on: "In this decision, the ICC violated the right of democracies to defend themselves against terrorism and played into the hands of those who undermine efforts to expand the circle of peace. We will continue to protect our citizens and soldiers in every way from legal persecution. … When the ICC investigates Israel for fake war crimes, this is pure anti-Semitism."


----------



## Hollie

It seems disease can have a nullifying affect on Pally Islamic terrorism. That, along with an immediate and devastating response to Islamic terrorist attacks tends to put the _had_ in the gee-had.











						Corona, normalization, Biden have Palestinian terror on the run
					

Last Friday, Meir Amit ITIC director and IDF Col. (res.) Reuven Ehrlich passed away suddenly at the age of 75.




					m.jpost.com
				




A combination of the coronavirus, the Israeli-Arab normalization wave and the election of US President Joe Biden have put Palestinian terror at a low point during the recent era, an annual intelligence center report said on Thursday.

The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center report said that the coronavirus had reduced operational capabilities, readiness and motivation for terror groups in both the West Bank and Gaza, with an especially dramatic drop in rocket fire from Hamas.


----------



## Mindful

The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.









						Is Palestine a State?
					

The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org





Mindful said:


> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,


When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?
Click to expand...

Why is the ICC granting statehood for Pal’istan when you have advised that Pal’istan is already a state?

Could you please email the ICC and advise them of your “Treaty of Lausanne” argument? Be sure to _cc_ us on that email.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?
Click to expand...


Why ask me such a stupid question?

You’re obviously triggered about something, or you wouldn’t keep giving me funnies.

It’s okay, I’m aware of your presence. Not that it makes any difference.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is the ICC granting statehood for Pal’istan when you have advised that Pal’istan is already a state?
> 
> Could you please email the ICC and advise them of your “Treaty of Lausanne” argument? Be sure to _cc_ us on that email.
Click to expand...

The ICC cannot make states. It can only recognize states that already exist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is the ICC granting statehood for Pal’istan when you have advised that Pal’istan is already a state?
> 
> Could you please email the ICC and advise them of your “Treaty of Lausanne” argument? Be sure to _cc_ us on that email.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ICC cannot make states. It can only recognize states that already exist.
Click to expand...

Apparently, the ICC refers to Pal territories. Haven’t you emailed your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory to set the ICC straight about the “country of Pal’istan”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is the ICC granting statehood for Pal’istan when you have advised that Pal’istan is already a state?
> 
> Could you please email the ICC and advise them of your “Treaty of Lausanne” argument? Be sure to _cc_ us on that email.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ICC cannot make states. It can only recognize states that already exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently, the ICC refers to Pal territories. Haven’t you emailed your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory to set the ICC straight about the “country of Pal’istan”?
Click to expand...

One step at a time.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority, because the Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court, makes no provision for this criminal court to recognize new states.
> The International Criminal Court is not a real court in any meaningful sense of that word. Unlike real courts, which have statutes and common law to interpret, the International Criminal Court just makes it up. As the dissenting judge so aptly pointed out, the Palestine decision is not based on existing law. It is based on pure politics.
> The Palestinians — both in the West Bank and Gaza — who have refused to negotiate in good faith and have used terrorism as their primary claim to recognition, have been rewarded for their violence by this decision.
> The real victims of such selective prosecution are the citizens of these third world countries whose leaders are killing and maiming them.
> All in all, the International Criminal Court decision on Palestine is a setback for a single standard of human rights. It is a victory for terrorism and an unwillingness to negotiate peace. And it is a strong argument against the United States and Israel joining this biased "court," and giving it any legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Palestine a State?
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel, without any compromise, and without any recognized boundaries. They also did it without any legal authority,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The highly politicized International Criminal Court just declared statehood for Palestinians. They did it without any negotiation with Israel,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did Israel get the authority to be the arbiter for statehood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is the ICC granting statehood for Pal’istan when you have advised that Pal’istan is already a state?
> 
> Could you please email the ICC and advise them of your “Treaty of Lausanne” argument? Be sure to _cc_ us on that email.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ICC cannot make states. It can only recognize states that already exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently, the ICC refers to Pal territories. Haven’t you emailed your Treaty of Lausanne conspiracy theory to set the ICC straight about the “country of Pal’istan”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One step at a time.
Click to expand...

I guess step one would be to have the ICC actually define it’s role as having any authority over the matter. Step two and your assignment of statehood to Pal’istan per the Treaty of Lausanne seem to be obvious steps.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Pallys. They do seem to suffer from hurt feelings. 





*PA condemns Arab member of Israeli Parliament for calling terrorists ‎‎“terrorists”‎*









						PA condemns Arab member of Israeli Parliament for calling terrorists ‎‎“terrorists”‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Terrorist prisoners are “symbols of honor, heroism, and pride,”




					palwatch.org
				





Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 9, 2021
*Israeli Arab MP Mansour Abbas to Israeli TV:‎
‎“Whoever ‎published that I visited the prison and met with terrorists ‎and embraced them ‎‎– that never happened.”‎
PLO prisoners’ affairs official responded:‎*

*“Qadri Abu Bakr condemned the statements… [Mansour Abbas] described the ‎Palestinian prisoners as ‘terrorists.’”*
*‎“The path to liberating Jerusalem is paved only by the sacrifices of ‎our pure-hearted Martyrs, the years of the lives of our brave ‎prisoners”*
*Official PA daily op-ed:‎*

*Israeli Arab MP Mansour has “crossed all the national red lines” ‎*
An Arab member of the Israeli Parliament, Mansour Abbas, has been ‎‎“condemned” by the PA for having made “embarrassing and shameful ‎statements” about Palestinian terrorist prisoners, who – according to the PA – ‎are not terrorists, but are “heroic.”‎
‎ ‎
In a recent interview to Israeli TV Channel 12, Mansour Abbas said: “Placing ‎me as a terror supporter or embracer of terrorists – that never was. Whoever ‎published that I visited the prison and met with terrorists and embraced them ‎‎– that never happened.” [Feb. 4, 2021]‎


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those poor, oppressed Pallys. They do seem to suffer from hurt feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA condemns Arab member of Israeli Parliament for calling terrorists ‎‎“terrorists”‎*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA condemns Arab member of Israeli Parliament for calling terrorists ‎‎“terrorists”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Terrorist prisoners are “symbols of honor, heroism, and pride,”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 9, 2021
> *Israeli Arab MP Mansour Abbas to Israeli TV:‎
> ‎“Whoever ‎published that I visited the prison and met with terrorists ‎and embraced them ‎‎– that never happened.”‎
> PLO prisoners’ affairs official responded:‎*
> 
> *“Qadri Abu Bakr condemned the statements… [Mansour Abbas] described the ‎Palestinian prisoners as ‘terrorists.’”*
> *‎“The path to liberating Jerusalem is paved only by the sacrifices of ‎our pure-hearted Martyrs, the years of the lives of our brave ‎prisoners”*
> *Official PA daily op-ed:‎*
> 
> *Israeli Arab MP Mansour has “crossed all the national red lines” ‎*
> An Arab member of the Israeli Parliament, Mansour Abbas, has been ‎‎“condemned” by the PA for having made “embarrassing and shameful ‎statements” about Palestinian terrorist prisoners, who – according to the PA – ‎are not terrorists, but are “heroic.”‎
> ‎ ‎
> In a recent interview to Israeli TV Channel 12, Mansour Abbas said: “Placing ‎me as a terror supporter or embracer of terrorists – that never was. Whoever ‎published that I visited the prison and met with terrorists and embraced them ‎‎– that never happened.” [Feb. 4, 2021]‎


Did  Mansour Abbas  actually say "terrorist"  or did Israel inset that in his statement?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor, oppressed Pallys. They do seem to suffer from hurt feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PA condemns Arab member of Israeli Parliament for calling terrorists ‎‎“terrorists”‎*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA condemns Arab member of Israeli Parliament for calling terrorists ‎‎“terrorists”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Terrorist prisoners are “symbols of honor, heroism, and pride,”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 9, 2021
> *Israeli Arab MP Mansour Abbas to Israeli TV:‎
> ‎“Whoever ‎published that I visited the prison and met with terrorists ‎and embraced them ‎‎– that never happened.”‎
> PLO prisoners’ affairs official responded:‎*
> 
> *“Qadri Abu Bakr condemned the statements… [Mansour Abbas] described the ‎Palestinian prisoners as ‘terrorists.’”*
> *‎“The path to liberating Jerusalem is paved only by the sacrifices of ‎our pure-hearted Martyrs, the years of the lives of our brave ‎prisoners”*
> *Official PA daily op-ed:‎*
> 
> *Israeli Arab MP Mansour has “crossed all the national red lines” ‎*
> An Arab member of the Israeli Parliament, Mansour Abbas, has been ‎‎“condemned” by the PA for having made “embarrassing and shameful ‎statements” about Palestinian terrorist prisoners, who – according to the PA – ‎are not terrorists, but are “heroic.”‎
> ‎ ‎
> In a recent interview to Israeli TV Channel 12, Mansour Abbas said: “Placing ‎me as a terror supporter or embracer of terrorists – that never was. Whoever ‎published that I visited the prison and met with terrorists and embraced them ‎‎– that never happened.” [Feb. 4, 2021]‎
> 
> 
> 
> Did  Mansour Abbas  actually say "terrorist"  or did Israel inset that in his statement?
Click to expand...

You read the article.

Hurt feelings?


----------



## Hollie

For a collection of Islamic terrorist franchises who are their own worst enemy, these posers seem to be forever emotionally, intellectually damaged children.




Fatah Official Jibrail Rajoub: Now That Their Jackass Trump Is Gone, Netanyahu Cannot Rule The World; What Is Happening in Palestine Is A Second Holocaust


----------



## Hollie

I’m guessing the good “Dr.” Lulu didn’t get the type of training that one might get in an accredited Western university. He did learn all he needs to know while appealing to the minions in Gaza’iatan.

Something tells me that obtaining a “Dr.” in this guys area of the world is not too rigorous and the take-home test consists of a couple of true or false questions:
*The Jews Are Behind All Corruption™️

Female Suicide Bombers Are Palestinian Role Models™️*







Gaza Islamic scholar Dr. Taher Lulu said that the Jews are behind all the corruption and destruction of moral values in the world. He made his remarks in an interview with Palestine Today TV (Gaza/Lebanon) that aired on February 4, 2021. He continued to claim that when Hitler came to power, he forbade banks from taking usury, knowing that all the banks were owned by Jews, and once he did this, Germany became a force to be feared and it invaded Eastern Europe. Lulu praised Palestinian female suicide bomber Hanadi Jaradat and said that Palestinian mothers encourage their children to become martyrs by saying: “Go, I want to hear that you were martyred. I don’t want you to come back to me.” Hanadi Jaradat blew herself up in an Israeli restaurant in October 2003, killing twenty-one people, among them four children.


----------



## Hollie

Yeah, the Pallys erect monuments to the psychopaths they breed. 


*PA municipality erects memorial for terrorist stabber shaped as map of "Palestine"*

Zamnpress, website  | Nov 12, 2015




Image of memorial for terrorist murderer Muhannad Halabi erected by the PA Abu Qash municipality, posted on zamnpress.com on Nov. 12, 2015. The memorial displays a picture of the murderer and carries his name. The PA memorial for Halabi, on a road named after him, is shaped as a map of “Palestine,” including both the PA areas and all of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Initially, one does wonder, even in the alternate reality of Pal-Arabism, how this makes sense. However, under a more critical assessment, a Pal ''president'' serving life sentences for planning Islamic terrorist attacks is the perfect leader for the Pallys. He won't be present to actually manage any affairs of responsible government, he doesn't possess any obvious credentials as one who could head a responsible government and he would apparently be competent at nothing but continuing that long tradition of failure, ineptitude  and retrogression that defines the current leaders of the competing Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank.

So, actually, he's the perfect for the PA franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc.  Somebody just needs to see to it that Abbas dies tragically by falling down a flight of stairs, (numerous times to get the job done).












						Marwan Barghouti, jailed for terror, said weighing run for Palestinian president
					

* * *




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Associates of Marwan Barghouti say that the Palestinian security prisoner — currently serving five life sentences for planning terror attacks that murdered Israelis — is considering a run in the scheduled Palestinian presidential elections.

“Our comrade, Marwan, is considering the possibility, but he has not yet made a decision either way,” former Palestinian Authority legislator Qaddura Fares tells The Times of Israel in a phone call.

Palestinians are scheduled to head to legislative elections on May 22 followed by presidential elections on July 31. Many observers have expressed skepticism that the vote will be held, however, as the Palestinians have not headed to national elections since 2006, despite numerous promises by their leadership.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Activist Akram Salhab on the Palestinian experience of British colonialism*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Activist Akram Salhab on the Palestinian experience of British colonialism*



Arabs-Moslems forever living in the past, unable to function in the modern, relevant world.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Activist Akram Salhab on the Palestinian experience of British colonialism*



What about their experience of Ottoman colonialism?


----------



## Hollie

Makes a Mahmoud proud. Another loser in the game of gee-had.



*Fatah branch praises terrorist who murdered 2: "To you the glory, the blessing, the peace, [Allah's] mercy and the honor, O lion, Fatah member, Martyr and daring fighter"*

Fatah Movement - Salfit Branch, Facebook  | Mar 20, 2019


----------



## Hollie

The various franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., are begging for welfare dollars for the gee-had. 

They're not aware that kuffar dollars don't just fall off the infidel tree?












						UNRWA appeals for US$1.5 billion to support Palestine refugees in 2021 - occupied Palestinian territory
					

English News and Press Release on occupied Palestinian territory and 3 other countries about Education, Food and Nutrition, Epidemic and more; published on 11 Feb 2021 by UNRWA




					reliefweb.int
				




The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is calling for US$1.5 billion to fund its essential services, emergency appeals and priority projects for registered Palestine refugees in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. Of the required US$1.5 billion, US$806 million are needed for core services, such as education, health, relief and social services, protection and infrastructure and camp improvement.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> The various franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., are begging for welfare dollars for the gee-had.
> 
> They're not aware that kuffar dollars don't just fall off the infidel tree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA appeals for US$1.5 billion to support Palestine refugees in 2021 - occupied Palestinian territory
> 
> 
> English News and Press Release on occupied Palestinian territory and 3 other countries about Education, Food and Nutrition, Epidemic and more; published on 11 Feb 2021 by UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reliefweb.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is calling for US$1.5 billion to fund its essential services, emergency appeals and priority projects for registered Palestine refugees in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. Of the required US$1.5 billion, US$806 million are needed for core services, such as education, health, relief and social services, protection and infrastructure and camp improvement.



*Of the required US$1.5 billion, US$806 million are needed for core services, such as education, health, relief and social services, protection and infrastructure and camp improvement. *

How much for rockets and tunnels?


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The various franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., are begging for welfare dollars for the gee-had.
> 
> They're not aware that kuffar dollars don't just fall off the infidel tree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA appeals for US$1.5 billion to support Palestine refugees in 2021 - occupied Palestinian territory
> 
> 
> English News and Press Release on occupied Palestinian territory and 3 other countries about Education, Food and Nutrition, Epidemic and more; published on 11 Feb 2021 by UNRWA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reliefweb.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is calling for US$1.5 billion to fund its essential services, emergency appeals and priority projects for registered Palestine refugees in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. Of the required US$1.5 billion, US$806 million are needed for core services, such as education, health, relief and social services, protection and infrastructure and camp improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Of the required US$1.5 billion, US$806 million are needed for core services, such as education, health, relief and social services, protection and infrastructure and camp improvement. *
> 
> How much for rockets and tunnels?
Click to expand...

I guess a large portion of the welfare money will need to be spent on re-printing the class material that teaches the gee-had lessons.









						Monitoring group: UNRWA textbooks glorify terror, deny Israel’s existence
					

Watchdog says educational materials distributed for distance learning during pandemic are 'rife with hate'; UNWRA chief says content was distributed in error




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Pally’s. It’s just not fair that their perceived entitlements aren’t met. The “_country of Pal’istan_”™ has every right to expect their demands for vaccines are supplied by others.

With Hamas relegated to a status of the world’s second richest Islamic terrorist organization, their are, of course, priorities to be met in terms of where the welfare money goes.











						Israel’s decision to give 5,000 vaccine doses to Palestinian health workers is wholly inadequate, rights group says
					

The Palestinian territories are home to just over 5 million people.




					www.cnbc.com
				





Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz’s office announced that the transfer had been approved on Sunday, marking the first such move since the country of 9 million began receiving shipments of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in mid-December.


----------



## Hollie

Jibril Rajoub has this quaint idea that Islamic terrorist attacks constitute ''resistance''.  He might want to resist the urge to force the IDF to respond if the Islamo-rockets begin to fly out of the areas occupies by Islamic terrorists. 





*Top PA official Rajoub: "Armed resistance‎" always on the back burner*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 8, 2021

Top PA official Rajoub: "Armed resistance‎" always on the back burner | PMW Analysis

*Asked if Fatah will continue “armed resistance,” Fatah Central ‎Committee Secretary Rajoub  says it’s “conditional on the ‎developments on the ground”‎*
Although he recently denied this, Fatah Central Committee ‎Secretary Jibril Rajoub continues to be mentioned as one of PA Chairman ‎Abbas’ possible successors – even in the upcoming elections.‎
Should Rajoub take over, Palestinian Media Watch has an extensive archive ‎of his statements that expose his hate speech and terror support.‎
In a recent interview, Rajoub made no secret of the fact that "armed resistance" - ‎the PA euphemism for terror against Israel - is an option always ‎kept on the back burner. Asked directly by the Kuwaiti interviewer if “Fatah’s ‎armed resistance is continuing,” Rajoub explained that Fatah and Hamas in ‎their ongoing talks have determined that this is “conditional on the ‎developments on the ground” – in other words: Rajoub didn’t denounce ‎violence, didn’t advocate peace, but instead stressed that “armed resistance” ‎remains an option whenever the PA finds it useful: ‎


----------



## Hollie

Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence. 











						UAE drastically cut funding for Palestinian refugee agency
					

The UAE gave UNRWA just $1m in 2020 compared with more than $50m the previous year.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE drastically cut funding for Palestinian refugee agency
> 
> 
> The UAE gave UNRWA just $1m in 2020 compared with more than $50m the previous year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.


That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAE drastically cut funding for Palestinian refugee agency
> 
> 
> The UAE gave UNRWA just $1m in 2020 compared with more than $50m the previous year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

At some point, do we just acknowledge that Arab-Moslem colonialism is a failed strategy, the Ottoman caliphate is not coming back, the islamist waqf is a relic of a bygone era and the world has progressed from 7th century ideas?











						Blinken ‘non-committal’ on East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital
					

In an interview to CNN, US top envoy refused to commit to East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has refused to commit to the idea of occupied East Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state, saying the parties need “to get together directly and negotiate these so-called final status issues”.

In an interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer earlier this week, Blinken however, reiterated the Biden administration’s plans to keep the US embassy to Israel in Jerusalem, after it was relocated during former president Trump’s administration.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BLUF:  I think you made a mistake.  Our Friend Hollie is absolutely correct in regard to the *Abraham Accords Peace Agreement* (AAPA).



Hollie said:


> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.





P F Tinmore said:


> That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.


*(COMMENT)*

It was NOT an arms agreement.  There was a regional strategic political rider to it, but it had nothing to do with "arms" or defense support.  The US already had a significant set of Understandings with the UAE for some time now.  In fact, the US-UAE relations are so good that there are two *USO* locations in-country (Dubai+Dhabi) for US Military personnel. The US has had Defense Cooperation Agreement in place since 2019, with a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system (≈$28B) and a Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) process (≈ $7B) since about 2014; working out of the Air Forces Central Command Air Warfare Center. There is absolutely NO need for a supplemental Arms Agreement as you call it.

I think you have this mixed-up with something else.

*




*
 Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake.  Our Friend Hollie is absolutely correct in regard to the *Abraham Accords Peace Agreement* (AAPA).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was NOT an arms agreement.  There was a regional strategic political rider to it, but it had nothing to do with "arms" or defense support.  The US already had a significant set of Understandings with the UAE for some time now.  In fact, the US-UAE relations are so good that there are two *USO* locations in-country (Dubai+Dhabi) for US Military personnel. The US has had Defense Cooperation Agreement in place since 2019, with a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system (≈$28B) and a Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) process (≈ $7B) since about 2014; working out of the Air Forces Central Command Air Warfare Center. There is absolutely NO need for a supplemental Arms Agreement as you call it.
> 
> I think you have this mixed-up with something else.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake.  Our Friend Hollie is absolutely correct in regard to the *Abraham Accords Peace Agreement* (AAPA).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was NOT an arms agreement.  There was a regional strategic political rider to it, but it had nothing to do with "arms" or defense support.  The US already had a significant set of Understandings with the UAE for some time now.  In fact, the US-UAE relations are so good that there are two *USO* locations in-country (Dubai+Dhabi) for US Military personnel. The US has had Defense Cooperation Agreement in place since 2019, with a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system (≈$28B) and a Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) process (≈ $7B) since about 2014; working out of the Air Forces Central Command Air Warfare Center. There is absolutely NO need for a supplemental Arms Agreement as you call it.
> 
> I think you have this mixed-up with something else.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
Click to expand...


Like the founder of UAE called Israel _"the enemy of Arab countries"_,
and now Emiratis proudly call themselves friends, allies and Zionists?

Or like the Gulf states that were funding wars and attacks against Israel,
are now leading allies in the entire region?


Yeah, even the Trump haters so desperately try to belittle this achievement,
because they understand how HUGE is this breakthrough.

but don't tell them...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake.  Our Friend Hollie is absolutely correct in regard to the *Abraham Accords Peace Agreement* (AAPA).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was NOT an arms agreement.  There was a regional strategic political rider to it, but it had nothing to do with "arms" or defense support.  The US already had a significant set of Understandings with the UAE for some time now.  In fact, the US-UAE relations are so good that there are two *USO* locations in-country (Dubai+Dhabi) for US Military personnel. The US has had Defense Cooperation Agreement in place since 2019, with a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system (≈$28B) and a Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) process (≈ $7B) since about 2014; working out of the Air Forces Central Command Air Warfare Center. There is absolutely NO need for a supplemental Arms Agreement as you call it.
> 
> I think you have this mixed-up with something else.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
Click to expand...


*It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war. *

It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake.  Our Friend Hollie is absolutely correct in regard to the *Abraham Accords Peace Agreement* (AAPA).
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the UAE has decided that there are priorities other than throwing money at failure and incompetence.
> The United Arab Emirates drastically reduced its funding to the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees in 2020, the year it signed a United States-brokered normalisation accord with Israel that was heavily criticised by the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a peace agreement. It was an arms agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was NOT an arms agreement.  There was a regional strategic political rider to it, but it had nothing to do with "arms" or defense support.  The US already had a significant set of Understandings with the UAE for some time now.  In fact, the US-UAE relations are so good that there are two *USO* locations in-country (Dubai+Dhabi) for US Military personnel. The US has had Defense Cooperation Agreement in place since 2019, with a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system (≈$28B) and a Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) process (≈ $7B) since about 2014; working out of the Air Forces Central Command Air Warfare Center. There is absolutely NO need for a supplemental Arms Agreement as you call it.
> 
> I think you have this mixed-up with something else.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is interesting that there would be peace agreements with Islamic terrorists seeking a holy war.

How strange that you claim ''this is not a religious conflict'' when the Islamic terrorist psychopaths tell us differently. "_One song called on Allah ‎and spoke of “ritually purifying” oneself with one’s blood.''_



*PA values:‎ Purify yourself with your blood, ‎ make sure your bullets hit the target…‎*









						PA values:‎ Purify yourself with your blood, ‎ make sure your bullets hit the target…‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Official PA TV narrator: “Because songs are a basic part of our ‎culture and they express our national identity… and because these ‎songs are present in our consciousness and still fascinate us with ‎values and meanings… It’s here: ‘The Tune of the Homeland.’”‎




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 14, 2021




*‎“O self-sacrificing fighter, ignite it, ignite it everywhere, make sure ‎the cannon is a fire burning by night”‎*
The Palestinian Authority is using its current TV quiz series about ‎Palestinian cultural songs to stress that violence and confrontation remain ‎lofty PA ideals. Palestinian Media Watch has exposed that most of the songs ‎that “fascinate… with values and meanings” chosen by the PA for the quiz ‎until now present PA’s “cultural and… national identity” as being about rifles, ‎violence, ‎murderers, and Martyrdom: ‎
Two recent songs featured in the quiz also focused on this. One song called on Allah ‎and spoke of “ritually purifying” oneself with one’s blood. Whereas a Muslim ‎ritually purifies himself before prayer with water, in the PA song the water has been ‎changed to one’s own blood. In other words - sacrifice yourself and aspire ‎death as a “Martyr” - while attacking Israel with “the bullets of the revolution”:‎


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.



P F Tinmore said:


> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.


*(COMMENT)*

"War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:

International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.

A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.

The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.  

The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:
> 
> International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
> I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.
> 
> A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.
> 
> The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.


Well, they surely do not want Israel's version of peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:
> 
> International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
> I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.
> 
> A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.
> 
> The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, I should have said International Armed Conflict.

Happy now?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:
> 
> International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
> I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.
> 
> A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.
> 
> The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I should have said International Armed Conflict.
> 
> Happy now?
Click to expand...

No reason to add “international”. You should have written “armed conflict.”

Do it again, write it correctly.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:
> 
> International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
> I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.
> 
> A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.
> 
> The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they surely do not want Israel's version of peace.
Click to expand...

What version was that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:
> 
> International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
> I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.
> 
> A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.
> 
> The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they surely do not want Israel's version of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What version was that?
Click to expand...

Israel gets to keep everything it has stolen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Abraham Accords Peace Agreement (AAPA)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  I think you made a mistake, yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that there would "peace" agreements without war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Palestinians are losers but the Israelis didn't win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "War" is a layman's terminology.   The correct terminology under international humanitarian law is either:
> 
> International Armed Conflict (IAC)​Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​​....................................or​​Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)​Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949​
> I have seen people get entangled with these concepts when they mix the layman's terminology with the same discussion with technical terminology as you have done here.
> 
> A “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and *whatever its particular designation*.
> 
> The combination of two terms "Peace Treaty" can be on any topic or subject in the spirit of A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  "Peace Treaties" are framed on "the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered."  This is opposite the common political theory of the Arab Palestinian, when this year the focus of Fatah is armed struggle.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT looking for peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they surely do not want Israel's version of peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What version was that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel gets to keep everything it has stolen.
Click to expand...

What was stolen?

You make nonsensical statements, totally unsupported and then fail to provide evidence.


----------



## Hollie

With the near daily incitement to violence, glorification of death, hero worship of Islamic terrorist psychopaths, etc., promoted by the Pally Death Cult, the “Peaceful gee-had” moniker means that Israel must respond immediately and forcefully to Pally acts of Islamic terrorism directed at Israel and Israeli citizens. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/02/12/the-statistics-of-blood/
		


Makuma salamiya ("peaceful, non-violent resistance"), as Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has taken care to refer to the thousands of terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks against Israelis, has prompted 534 major attacks in the last six years, and tens of thousands more "ordinary" attacks (meaning rock throwing and Molotov cocktails).

In that six-year period, 85 Israelis were killed and over 1,000 wounded in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria in attacks that the Palestinians called "popular terrorism." In those same six years, Israeli security forces thwarted over 2,000 more major attacks planned as part of this "popular terrorism." These blood-soaked statistics, based on the idea of "peaceful, non-violent resistance," will probably not be investigated at The Hague.


----------



## Hollie

This particular “preacher” has “Allah” as a last name so you know with certainty that you don’t want to be on the business end of his Koran.

Oh, and don’t forget the carnal pleasures of those 72 black-eyed virgins. For the sexually frustrated Pally male, those virgins are a real enticement. 

Gaza Preacher Hassan Faraj Allah: Modern Day Martyrs Will Have Their Guns And Rockets Testify For Them On Judgment Day Instead Of Bloodied Swords


The Pally gee-had is modernizing. “Guns and rockets” vs. the imagery of Arab invaders / colonists on horseback


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Prayer - Cover by Lina Sleibi ft. Milad Fatouleh/Filmed in Bethlehem- Manger Sq. Nativity Church*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Turkish Feminist to Linda Sarsour: 'Shut Your Mouth'


----------



## Hollie

Aside from problems the ICC faces in terms of credibility, jurisdiction and bias, the Pally’s may face some pushback from Israel. 










						Gov't may weigh sanctions on PA leaders over ICC case
					

Unilaterally joining international organizations as if the PA is a state, and opening a war crimes suit are violations of the Oslo Accords, Israeli officials have argued.




					m.jpost.com
				





The government may consider sanctions on Palestinian Authorityleaders following last week’s International Criminal Court ruling that it has the jurisdiction to investigate allegations of Israeli war crimes.

The ruling came after the Palestinian Authority acceded to the Rome Statute and became a member of the ICC in 2015. It then lodged a complaint about alleged war crimes in “occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem.”


----------



## Hollie

An Arab Member of the Israeli Knesset?

Apartheid, I tell ya’.

Somebody call the UN. 










						Palestinians Furious After Israeli-Arab MK Calls Terrorists “Terrorists”
					

Mansour Abbas has been ruffling a lot of features of late among both Israeli Arabs and Palestinians.




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




Arab Member of Knesset Mansour Abbas faced harsh condemnation from the Palestinian Authority (PA) after having made “embarrassing and shameful ‎statements” about terrorist prisoners, who ‎are not terrorists but are “heroic,” according to the PA.‎


----------



## Hollie

Pally terrorists may be viewed as "soldiers" by the PA Death Cult but when they're jailed by Israel, they're just Islamic terrorists serving time for the crimes they committed.



*Terrorist prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership says head of PA-funded Prisoners’ Club*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 16, 2021



Palestinian terrorist prisoners are viewed by the Palestinian Authority as “soldiers” who carried out orders from the PA leadership. Palestinian Media Watch has exposed a number of such statements in the past, and now Chairman of the PA-funded Prisoners’ Club Qadura Fares has again confirmed this position. In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pally terrorists may be viewed as "soldiers" by the PA Death Cult but when they're jailed by Israel, they're just Islamic terrorists serving time for the crimes they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> *Terrorist prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership says head of PA-funded Prisoners’ Club*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 16, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorist prisoners are viewed by the Palestinian Authority as “soldiers” who carried out orders from the PA leadership. Palestinian Media Watch has exposed a number of such statements in the past, and now Chairman of the PA-funded Prisoners’ Club Qadura Fares has again confirmed this position. In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:


Keep playing those terrorist cards.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pally terrorists may be viewed as "soldiers" by the PA Death Cult but when they're jailed by Israel, they're just Islamic terrorists serving time for the crimes they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> *Terrorist prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership says head of PA-funded Prisoners’ Club*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 16, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorist prisoners are viewed by the Palestinian Authority as “soldiers” who carried out orders from the PA leadership. Palestinian Media Watch has exposed a number of such statements in the past, and now Chairman of the PA-funded Prisoners’ Club Qadura Fares has again confirmed this position. In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing those terrorist cards.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you missed it.

Indeed, it is your Islamic terrorist heroes who play the terrorist cards.


----------



## Hollie

Lovely folks those Pally voters. Lovely folks those lovely folks the lovely Pally voters will vote for: _The People Who Trampled The Zionists Underfoot, Sacrificed Their Children As Martyrs, Developed Rockets, And Presented Female Martyrdom-Seekers_

lovely folks. Sacrificing their children as ‘’martyrs”, presenting female “martyrdom seekers”. Gee whiz. It’s as though they breed for the sole purpose of producing human misery.



Hamas Official Talal Nassar: Palestinians Will Vote For The People Who Trampled The Zionists Underfoot, Sacrificed Their Children As Martyrs, Developed Rockets, And Presented Female Martyrdom-Seekers


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BLUF:  There are three ways to distinguish a terrorist from other criminals.

◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​


Hollie said:


> In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:





P F Tinmore said:


> Keep playing those terrorist cards.
> Good girl.


*(COMMENT)*

You through up these "Tinmore Unique" barriers just to derail the discussion.

◈. *IF *the individual is a member of one of the example organizations below-listed (but not limited to), *THEN* they are a terrorist.​✦. Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.​✦. Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’​✦. Palestinian Islamic Jihad​✦. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine​◈. Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, by its nature or context, violates on (or more) of the 19 Counter-Terrorism Covenants.​◈  Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
Al-Aloul stated that “the torches of the outbreak of the revolution will be lit in all the districts,” adding “that the activities on the following day… will focus on increasing and escalating the popular resistance at the points of friction with the occupation and at the sites that are threatened by the settlement enterprise.” [*Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 27, 2020*]
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyny6roEwE&feature=youtu.be
Former Palestinian Arab Terrorist Explains: Who Profits from the So-Called "Occupation?"*

*Gaza Islamic Scholar Dr. Taher Lulu: The Jews Are Behind All Corruption And This Is Why Hitler Banned Usury**; 

Female Suicide Bombers Are Palestinian Role Models *

*Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"*

*




*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  There are three ways to distinguish a terrorist from other criminals.
> 
> ◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing those terrorist cards.
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You through up these "Tinmore Unique" barriers just to derail the discussion.
> 
> ◈. *IF *the individual is a member of one of the example organizations below-listed (but not limited to), *THEN* they are a terrorist.​✦. Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.​✦. Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’​✦. Palestinian Islamic Jihad​✦. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine​◈. Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, by its nature or context, violates on (or more) of the 19 Counter-Terrorism Covenants.​◈  Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Al-Aloul stated that “the torches of the outbreak of the revolution will be lit in all the districts,” adding “that the activities on the following day… will focus on increasing and escalating the popular resistance at the points of friction with the occupation and at the sites that are threatened by the settlement enterprise.” [*Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 27, 2020*]
> *Former Palestinian Arab Terrorist Explains: Who Profits from the So-Called "Occupation?"*
> 
> *Gaza Islamic Scholar Dr. Taher Lulu: The Jews Are Behind All Corruption And This Is Why Hitler Banned Usury**;
> 
> Female Suicide Bombers Are Palestinian Role Models *
> 
> *Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈. By the criminal intent.


Is liberation a criminal intent?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  There are three ways to distinguish a terrorist from other criminals.
> 
> ◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing those terrorist cards.
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You through up these "Tinmore Unique" barriers just to derail the discussion.
> 
> ◈. *IF *the individual is a member of one of the example organizations below-listed (but not limited to), *THEN* they are a terrorist.​✦. Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.​✦. Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’​✦. Palestinian Islamic Jihad​✦. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine​◈. Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, by its nature or context, violates on (or more) of the 19 Counter-Terrorism Covenants.​◈  Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Al-Aloul stated that “the torches of the outbreak of the revolution will be lit in all the districts,” adding “that the activities on the following day… will focus on increasing and escalating the popular resistance at the points of friction with the occupation and at the sites that are threatened by the settlement enterprise.” [*Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 27, 2020*]
> *Former Palestinian Arab Terrorist Explains: Who Profits from the So-Called "Occupation?"*
> 
> *Gaza Islamic Scholar Dr. Taher Lulu: The Jews Are Behind All Corruption And This Is Why Hitler Banned Usury**;
> 
> Female Suicide Bombers Are Palestinian Role Models *
> 
> *Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈. By the criminal intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is liberation a criminal intent?
Click to expand...

Islamic theocracies are liberating?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  There are three ways to distinguish a terrorist from other criminals.
> 
> ◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a recent speech, Fares stated that all prisoners are “soldiers” who “fought according to instructions” from the Palestinian leadership. Fares made sure to include all “national and Islamic factions,” thus accepting overall responsibility for all Palestinian terror attacks carried out not only by Fatah but also by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep playing those terrorist cards.
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You through up these "Tinmore Unique" barriers just to derail the discussion.
> 
> ◈. *IF *the individual is a member of one of the example organizations below-listed (but not limited to), *THEN* they are a terrorist.​✦. Abu Nidal Organisation’ — ‘ANO’​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade’.​✦. ‘Al-Aqsa e.V’.​✦. Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’​✦. Palestinian Islamic Jihad​✦. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine​◈. Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, by its nature or context, violates on (or more) of the 19 Counter-Terrorism Covenants.​◈  Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Al-Aloul stated that “the torches of the outbreak of the revolution will be lit in all the districts,” adding “that the activities on the following day… will focus on increasing and escalating the popular resistance at the points of friction with the occupation and at the sites that are threatened by the settlement enterprise.” [*Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 27, 2020*]
> *Former Palestinian Arab Terrorist Explains: Who Profits from the So-Called "Occupation?"*
> 
> *Gaza Islamic Scholar Dr. Taher Lulu: The Jews Are Behind All Corruption And This Is Why Hitler Banned Usury**;
> 
> Female Suicide Bombers Are Palestinian Role Models *
> 
> *Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈. By the criminal intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is liberation a criminal intent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic theocracies are liberating?
Click to expand...


They'll liberate the shit out of you........


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BLUF:  The answer is_ (like many complex questions_) it depends.  Certainly, the policy the Arab Palestinians pursue is "punishable" under customary international humanitarian law (IHL).



RoccoR said:


> ◈. By the criminal intent.





P F Tinmore said:


> Is liberation a criminal intent?


*(COMMENT)

IF* the Arab Palestinians operate under the policy that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" → and in the pursuit of that policy,  →  the Arab Palestinians who commit acts of a criminal nature → which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and this act causes the injury or death to the occupying forces or administration, OR committing espionage, and/or perform serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,*Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot, violenceTHEN* YES! . . . The liberation effort pursued in this manner has a criminal intent...

For the last seventy years (plus), such actions are liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment. In certain felonious cases, capital offenses may be punishable by a sentence to death.

This punishment would also include applicable to any of the 19 Counter-terrorism covenants.

Palestinians that indirectly support the pursuit of this criminal behavior are, if not criminal conspirators, guilty of aiding and abetting the perpetrators.  The Arab Palestinians that promote or encourage such acts of violence *ARE* guilty of Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot or violence *ARE* also subject to prosecution under the law.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The answer is_ (like many complex questions_) it depends.  Certainly, the policy the Arab Palestinians pursue is "punishable" under customary international humanitarian law (IHL).
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈. By the criminal intent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is liberation a criminal intent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> IF* the Arab Palestinians operate under the policy that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" → and in the pursuit of that policy,  →  the Arab Palestinians who commit acts of a criminal nature → which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and this act causes the injury or death to the occupying forces or administration, OR committing espionage, and/or perform serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,*Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot, violenceTHEN* YES! . . . The liberation effort pursued in this manner has a criminal intent...
> 
> For the last seventy years (plus), such actions are liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment. In certain felonious cases, capital offenses may be punishable by a sentence to death.
> 
> This punishment would also include applicable to any of the 19 Counter-terrorism covenants.
> 
> Palestinians that indirectly support the pursuit of this criminal behavior are, if not criminal conspirators, guilty of aiding and abetting the perpetrators.  The Arab Palestinians that promote or encourage such acts of violence *ARE* guilty of Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot or violence *ARE* also subject to prosecution under the law.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit.

Israel will always experience so called terrorism from the people it is attacking.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* You asked the question and I responded with customary and international humanitarian law (IHL). NOT "Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit."

*(COMMENT)*


RoccoR said:


> *IF* the Arab Palestinians operate under the policy that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" → and in the pursuit of that policy,  →  the Arab Palestinians who commit acts of a criminal nature → which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and this act causes the injury or death to the occupying forces or administration, OR committing espionage, and/or perform serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,*Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot, violence THEN *YES! . . . The liberation effort pursued in this manner has a criminal intent...





P F Tinmore said:


> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Israel will always experience so called terrorism from the people it is attacking.


*(COMMENT)*

What in the hell is the matter with you?  *IF* you are going to challenge the legality of "armed Struggle" *THEN* argue the point. But don't come back with some lame-ass ad hominem attack.

The entire Arab-Palestinian effort is nothing more than a criminal enterprise using "liberation" and "incited victim response" as a front to mask their illegal pursuits.
*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You asked the question and I responded with customary and international humanitarian law (IHL). NOT "Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians operate under the policy that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" → and in the pursuit of that policy,  →  the Arab Palestinians who commit acts of a criminal nature → which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and this act causes the injury or death to the occupying forces or administration, OR committing espionage, and/or perform serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,*Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot, violence THEN *YES! . . . The liberation effort pursued in this manner has a criminal intent...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Israel will always experience so called terrorism from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the hell is the matter with you?  *IF* you are going to challenge the legality of "armed Struggle" *THEN* argue the point. But don't come back with some lame-ass ad hominem attack.
> 
> The entire Arab-Palestinian effort is nothing more than a criminal enterprise using "liberation" and "incited victim response" as a front to mask their illegal pursuits.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What a load of hooey.

Israel plays terrorist cards all the time. The more the better.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You asked the question and I responded with customary and international humanitarian law (IHL). NOT "Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians operate under the policy that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" → and in the pursuit of that policy,  →  the Arab Palestinians who commit acts of a criminal nature → which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and this act causes the injury or death to the occupying forces or administration, OR committing espionage, and/or perform serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,*Criminal incitement refers to conduct, words, or other means that urge or naturally lead others to riot, violence THEN *YES! . . . The liberation effort pursued in this manner has a criminal intent...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda bullshit.
> 
> Israel will always experience so called terrorism from the people it is attacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What in the hell is the matter with you?  *IF* you are going to challenge the legality of "armed Struggle" *THEN* argue the point. But don't come back with some lame-ass ad hominem attack.
> 
> The entire Arab-Palestinian effort is nothing more than a criminal enterprise using "liberation" and "incited victim response" as a front to mask their illegal pursuits.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a load of hooey.
> 
> Israel plays terrorist cards all the time. The more the better.
Click to expand...


And the Palestinians fall into the trap.....by committing acts of terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Former Palestinian Liberation Organization Legal Adviser: "It's Apartheid" | Amanpour and Company*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Former Palestinian Liberation Organization Legal Adviser: "It's Apartheid" | Amanpour and Company*



apartheid

Pally groupies just love that slogan.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* I think it is a logically sound and valid assessment. And I've NOT seen anything from you that challenged the outcome.



P F Tinmore said:


> What a load of hooey.
> Israel plays terrorist cards all the time. The more the better.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians (≈ 85%  of them) meet one or more of the criteria.

◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​
It is a description based on the real characteristics that the Arab Palestinians project.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, → swims and flies like a duck, → has the same coloring as a duck, it is a reasonable assumption _(not playing the duck card)_ that it is a duck.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think it is a logically sound and valid assessment. And I've NOT seen anything from you that challenged the outcome.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of hooey.
> Israel plays terrorist cards all the time. The more the better.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (≈ 85%  of them) meet one or more of the criteria.
> 
> ◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​
> It is a description based on the real characteristics that the Arab Palestinians project.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, → swims and flies like a duck, → has the same coloring as a duck, it is a reasonable assumption _(not playing the duck card)_ that it is a duck.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈. By the criminal intent.


Is liberation a criminal intent?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think it is a logically sound and valid assessment. And I've NOT seen anything from you that challenged the outcome.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of hooey.
> Israel plays terrorist cards all the time. The more the better.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians (≈ 85%  of them) meet one or more of the criteria.
> 
> ◈. By membership in a defined terrorist organization!​◈. By the activities engages in.​◈. By the criminal intent.​
> It is a description based on the real characteristics that the Arab Palestinians project.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, → swims and flies like a duck, → has the same coloring as a duck, it is a reasonable assumption _(not playing the duck card)_ that it is a duck.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈. By the criminal intent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is liberation a criminal intent?
Click to expand...


Maybe before cynically using "liberty" as facade for xenophobic incitement,
stop executing your own gays in the main square?









						Hamas Commander, Accused of Theft and Gay Sex, Is Killed by His Own (Published 2016)
					

The death of Mahmoud Ishtiwi, who was accused of homosexuality, had all the trappings of a soap opera: sex, torture and embezzlement, in the armed wing of Hamas.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* I thought I answered this in *Posting 18649* _supra_.



RoccoR said:


> ◈. By the criminal intent.





P F Tinmore said:


> Is liberation a criminal intent?


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot mask a "pattern of criminal activity" behind the objective of "liberation."

*IF* a Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offense that is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel) *THEN* it is punishable under customary and international humanitarian law (IHL).  It is just that simple.

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪* F U L L   •   S T O P* ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪

Imprisoned Palestinian terrorists “are nothing but
symbols of ‎honor, heroism, and pride.”​
........................................................................................................................................................................_Qadri Abu Bakr_
........................................................................................................................................................................_Director_
........................................................................................................................................................................_PLO’s Commission for Prisoners’ Affairs_

"Abu Bakr further emphasized that terrorism is the ‎way to “liberate Jerusalem.”​_*( Ω´∑ )*_

This is especially true relative to the Arab-Israeli Conflict when the HoAPs makes absolutely no good faith attempt to resolve claims through the international Dispute Resolution Processes.

"States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration,​judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice. In seeking such a settlement the parties​shall agree upon such peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute."​
This is further amplified when you realize the HoAPs "agreed to" the terms:

RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES​​1.    Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Declaration of Principles. or any subsequent agreements pertaining to​the interim period, shall be resolved by negotiations through the Joint Liaison Committee to be established pursuant to Article X above.​​2.    Disputes which cannot be settled by negotiations may be resolved by a mechanism of conciliation to be agreed upon by the parties.​​3.    The parties may agree to submit to arbitration disputes relating to the interim period, which cannot be settled through conciliation.​To this end, upon the agreement of both parties, the parties will establish an Arbitration Committee.​

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinians: EU Facilitating Hamas Victory*
*by Bassam Tawil.*
It is important to note that Israel did not stop the Palestinians in the past from holding presidential and parliamentary elections in 1996, 2005 and 2006.




Israel did not even stop Arab residents of Jerusalem from running in the 2006 Palestinian Legislative Council election as candidates for Hamas, the Islamist movement that does not recognize Israel's right to exist and seeks to replace it with an Islamic state.
Hamas ran under the slogan "Islam is the solution" and promised to end corruption and bring good governance to the Palestinians... [and] also promised voters that it would resort to an "armed struggle" against Israel.
[W]hen Hamas participated in the 2006 election, which was also encouraged by the EU, the Islamist movement was still on the EU's list of terrorist organizations. The EU, however, did not try to stop the terrorist organization from running in that election.
The Quartet members should have set the conditions _before_, not _after_the election. They had every right to do so: the Hamas-led government was expecting the international community to continue providing financial aid to the Palestinians.
The Hamas-led government that was formed after the 2006 election was boycotted by the EU and most of the international community. Why? Because Hamas, in their eyes, is a terrorist organization. If so, why did the EU and other Western countries not object to Hamas's participation in the elections _before_ the vote? Did Hamas become a terrorist organization only after it won the election?









						Palestinians: EU Facilitating Hamas Victory
					

It is important to note that Israel did not stop the Palestinians in the past from holding presidential and parliamentary elections in 1996, 2005 and 2006. Israel did not even stop Arab residents of Jerusalem from running in the 2006 Palestinian




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

*Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah*









						Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah | PMW Analysis
					

Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely.




					palwatch.org
				




Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely. Not surprisingly, a filler on Hamas TV expressed support and joy over suicide bombings in Israel, and taught that imprisoned terrorists and murderers will also – just like the suicide bomber - be rewarded for their actions by Allah.

In the filler, actors portraying imprisoned Palestinian terrorists cheer “the worst suicide bombing in Tel Aviv” as the news of it is broadcast on Israeli TV. But in the midst of their rejoicing and shouts of “Allahu Akbar” – “Allah is greatest” – one prisoner is crying. While he weeps over the missed opportunity to carry out the attack with the suicide bomber as he had planned, a fellow terrorist assures him that he too will be rewarded for his actions by Allah:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Laila Al-Arian: Free Speech Under Attack for Muslim Americans*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


An Arab at Tel Aviv university?

_*Apartheid!*_


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Emir of Abbas’istan is doing what dictators typically do - issuing edicts favorable to his Emir’ship. Apparently, various “amendments” have been introduced that will affect any possible elections.










						After 15-year wait, Palestinian elections face new obstacles following law amendments
					

Doubt cast on objective behind recent presidential decrees that might threaten first elections since 2006




					www.middleeasteye.net
				





These amendments, according to experts, have put the judiciary in "Abbas's grip," and through them the Palestinian president has prepared to fortify himself if the ballot boxes come out without the results he seeks. 

The decisions he has issued may turn the forthcoming Cairo dialogue "upside down," according to one Hamas official, as a range of pressing issues, relating to security, supervision of the electoral process, and public freedoms, also need to be discussed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Was this something about those “new states” you claim were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne?

Anything yet on your imagined “new states”?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. No boycott? Where are the BDS’ers?

The Pally’s sure like the welfare handouts. They will take the free vaccines one day while pushing their children into the gee-had the next day.











						Coronavirus: Israel to vaccinate 100,000 Palestinian workers
					

The decision came after a meeting between Health Ministry officials on both sides.




					m.jpost.com
				





The Palestinian Authority Health Ministry announced on Friday that it has struck a deal with the Israeli Health Ministry to vaccinate 100,000 Palestinians who work in Israel.

The agreement was announced after senior Health Ministry officials visited Ramallah on Friday and met with their Palestinian counterparts to evaluate the situation there in regard to the COVID-19 pandemic.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, those poor, oppressed Pally's. No matter how much you give them, it's never enough to satisfy their presumed entitlement.

Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW

*No-win: Israeli free training, loans, and grants to Palestinians are an "attack” on young Palestinians, leading to “Israelization”









						No-win: Israeli free training, loans, and grants to Palestinians are an "attack” on young Palestinians, leading to “Israelization” | PMW Analysis
					

Training supervisor of YWCA lashed out at Israel for offering “free training, loans, and grants” to young Palestinians “like crazy.” She criticized the “competition from the Israeli institutions,” describing it as “an attack” that leads to “Israelization” of the young Palestinians




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 21, 2021



This is a textbook example of Israel's no-win predicament:
The PA’s standard libel is that Israel is deliberately trying to harm Palestinians and at other times Israel is criticized by the PA for allegedly not taking care of Palestinians.
But now when Israel has created a special program to create economic opportunities for Palestinians it is being criticized for its “attack” that is causing “Israelization” among Palestinian youth. For Israel it’s a tragic no-win.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
⁜→  Hollie, et al,


The application of an interdisciplinary, evidence-based explanation of terrorism, 

national identity, and political legitimacy may be the most effective method of 

understanding and combating political violence.

..................................................................................................._Jean E. Rosenfeld_
...................................................................................................Academic Researcher UCLA (2011)​
*BLUF:* It is difficult to talk about Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) motivation to pursue terrorist agenda.  Different members have different reasoning.  By the time of the closure of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) those that were to become the HoAP were generally destitute and unemployed _(some underemployed)_.  Some were dissatisfied with the economic conditions, while others were motivated by the perceived vulnerability of the Allied Powers _(imperial exemplars)_ after World War I _(and to an similar extent, World War II_) to pursue avenues to support and build families while others chased nationalism and self-determination.  Criminal activities and a growing terrorist posture was successfully being developed as a practice, in part because the various territorial authorities and properties became lucrative targets that did not want to expend the resources required to hold on to extraterritorial possessions or invest in nation building.




Hollie said:


> *Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah*





Hollie said:


> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely. Not surprisingly, a filler on Hamas TV expressed support and joy over suicide bombings in Israel, and taught that imprisoned terrorists and murderers will also – just like the suicide bomber - be rewarded for their actions by Allah.
> 
> In the filler, actors portraying imprisoned Palestinian terrorists cheer “the worst suicide bombing in Tel Aviv” as the news of it is broadcast on Israeli TV. But in the midst of their rejoicing and shouts of “Allahu Akbar” – “Allah is greatest” – one prisoner is crying. While he weeps over the missed opportunity to carry out the attack with the suicide bomber as he had planned, a fellow terrorist assures him that he too will be rewarded for his actions by Allah:



*(COMMENT)*

While Psychology professionals will tell you a very complicated story and reasoning → there are _(generally speaking)_ six _(most common)_ kinds of "suicide bombers:

◈  The mentally handicapped, or intised by the belief of rewards in the after-life,​◈  The one that believe they have no better life to look forward to having,​◈  They harbor feelings of helpless, or a burden in some manner,​◈  The endless thoughts of guilt, embarrassment, and the strap shame they feel will never go away,​◈  The feel they are worth more dead than they are alive,​◈  The are being roerced into being a bomber,​
On the other hand, being engaged in violent criminal activity, while having similar factors that influence it, have slightly different pathologies behind them:

◈  They exhibit psychopathic tendencies (NO conscience, NO moral brakes, NO empathy).​◈  They exhibit sociopathic tendencies are rather quick to assume a hostile/violent posture.  They know "right" from "wrong" but they are NOT persausive.​◈  Environmental factors.​✦  Unemployment​✦  Family discourse • family need​✦  Perception of Great need​✦  Materialism​
When I look at this "thumbnail" list, I see quite readily that factors that motivate the HoAP into the various facets of terrorist activity.  But there is one aspect that should hit home hard and resonat in the Arab Palestinian Community:



			
				DSM-5 The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders • Fifth Edition said:
			
		

> the reference manual that defines the symptoms of mental disorders.))
> Defines antisocial personality as someone have 3 or more of the following traits:
> 
> Regularly breaks or flouts the law
> Constantly lies and deceives others
> Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
> Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
> Has little regard for the safety of others
> Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
> Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt




When we see the HoAP attempt to justify the Killing of Israelis/Jews, and glorify the Terrorist that kills unarmed women and children in a face-to-face confrontation, we can also see the *seven traits from the DSM-5*.

*Death to Israel, the occupation, and the Zionist terror!**' Palestinians tuning in were told.*
*Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
*Terror, Terror, Terror – **remains Fatah’s motto for 2021*
*I want to kill all the jews*
Islamic Scholar says: * Female Suicide Bombers are Role Models*
Those of us who do not have a DSM-5 defined mental disorder can see immediately what is "Right" from what is "Wrong."  We know instinctively what is what.  But now and then, you will find those who's mind you cannot change.  They openly justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  They applaud "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  The only question is:  Are they, sociopaths? •  or • Are they, psychopaths?

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> 
> The application of an interdisciplinary, evidence-based explanation of terrorism,
> 
> national identity, and political legitimacy may be the most effective method of
> 
> understanding and combating political violence.
> 
> ..................................................................................................._Jean E. Rosenfeld_
> ...................................................................................................Academic Researcher UCLA (2011)​
> *BLUF:* It is difficult to talk about Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) motivation to pursue terrorist agenda.  Different members have different reasoning.  By the time of the closure of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) those that were to become the HoAP were generally destitute and unemployed _(some underemployed)_.  Some were dissatisfied with the economic conditions, while others were motivated by the perceived vulnerability of the Allied Powers _(imperial exemplars)_ after World War I _(and to an similar extent, World War II_) to pursue avenues to support and build families while others chased nationalism and self-determination.  Criminal activities and a growing terrorist posture was successfully being developed as a practice, in part because the various territorial authorities and properties became lucrative targets that did not want to expend the resources required to hold on to extraterritorial possessions or invest in nation building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely. Not surprisingly, a filler on Hamas TV expressed support and joy over suicide bombings in Israel, and taught that imprisoned terrorists and murderers will also – just like the suicide bomber - be rewarded for their actions by Allah.
> 
> In the filler, actors portraying imprisoned Palestinian terrorists cheer “the worst suicide bombing in Tel Aviv” as the news of it is broadcast on Israeli TV. But in the midst of their rejoicing and shouts of “Allahu Akbar” – “Allah is greatest” – one prisoner is crying. While he weeps over the missed opportunity to carry out the attack with the suicide bomber as he had planned, a fellow terrorist assures him that he too will be rewarded for his actions by Allah:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While Psychology professionals will tell you a very complicated story and reasoning → there are _(generally speaking)_ six _(most common)_ kinds of "suicide bombers:
> 
> ◈  The mentally handicapped, or intised by the belief of rewards in the after-life,​◈  The one that believe they have no better life to look forward to having,​◈  They harbor feelings of helpless, or a burden in some manner,​◈  The endless thoughts of guilt, embarrassment, and the strap shame they feel will never go away,​◈  The feel they are worth more dead than they are alive,​◈  The are being roerced into being a bomber,​
> On the other hand, being engaged in violent criminal activity, while having similar factors that influence it, have slightly different pathologies behind them:
> 
> ◈  They exhibit psychopathic tendencies (NO conscience, NO moral brakes, NO empathy).​◈  They exhibit sociopathic tendencies are rather quick to assume a hostile/violent posture.  They know "right" from "wrong" but they are NOT persausive.​◈  Environmental factors.​✦  Unemployment​✦  Family discourse • family need​✦  Perception of Great need​✦  Materialism​
> When I look at this "thumbnail" list, I see quite readily that factors that motivate the HoAP into the various facets of terrorist activity.  But there is one aspect that should hit home hard and resonat in the Arab Palestinian Community:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSM-5 The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders • Fifth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the reference manual that defines the symptoms of mental disorders.))
> Defines antisocial personality as someone have 3 or more of the following traits:
> 
> Regularly breaks or flouts the law
> Constantly lies and deceives others
> Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
> Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
> Has little regard for the safety of others
> Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
> Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When we see the HoAP attempt to justify the Killing of Israelis/Jews, and glorify the Terrorist that kills unarmed women and children in a face-to-face confrontation, we can also see the *seven traits from the DSM-5*.
> 
> *Death to Israel, the occupation, and the Zionist terror!**' Palestinians tuning in were told.*
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *Terror, Terror, Terror – **remains Fatah’s motto for 2021*
> *I want to kill all the jews*
> Islamic Scholar says: * Female Suicide Bombers are Role Models*
> Those of us who do not have a DSM-5 defined mental disorder can see immediately what is "Right" from what is "Wrong."  We know instinctively what is what.  But now and then, you will find those who's mind you cannot change.  They openly justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  They applaud "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  The only question is:  Are they, sociopaths? •  or • Are they, psychopaths?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Liberation is criminal?

You think funny.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> 
> The application of an interdisciplinary, evidence-based explanation of terrorism,
> 
> national identity, and political legitimacy may be the most effective method of
> 
> understanding and combating political violence.
> 
> ..................................................................................................._Jean E. Rosenfeld_
> ...................................................................................................Academic Researcher UCLA (2011)​
> *BLUF:* It is difficult to talk about Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) motivation to pursue terrorist agenda.  Different members have different reasoning.  By the time of the closure of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) those that were to become the HoAP were generally destitute and unemployed _(some underemployed)_.  Some were dissatisfied with the economic conditions, while others were motivated by the perceived vulnerability of the Allied Powers _(imperial exemplars)_ after World War I _(and to an similar extent, World War II_) to pursue avenues to support and build families while others chased nationalism and self-determination.  Criminal activities and a growing terrorist posture was successfully being developed as a practice, in part because the various territorial authorities and properties became lucrative targets that did not want to expend the resources required to hold on to extraterritorial possessions or invest in nation building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely. Not surprisingly, a filler on Hamas TV expressed support and joy over suicide bombings in Israel, and taught that imprisoned terrorists and murderers will also – just like the suicide bomber - be rewarded for their actions by Allah.
> 
> In the filler, actors portraying imprisoned Palestinian terrorists cheer “the worst suicide bombing in Tel Aviv” as the news of it is broadcast on Israeli TV. But in the midst of their rejoicing and shouts of “Allahu Akbar” – “Allah is greatest” – one prisoner is crying. While he weeps over the missed opportunity to carry out the attack with the suicide bomber as he had planned, a fellow terrorist assures him that he too will be rewarded for his actions by Allah:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While Psychology professionals will tell you a very complicated story and reasoning → there are _(generally speaking)_ six _(most common)_ kinds of "suicide bombers:
> 
> ◈  The mentally handicapped, or intised by the belief of rewards in the after-life,​◈  The one that believe they have no better life to look forward to having,​◈  They harbor feelings of helpless, or a burden in some manner,​◈  The endless thoughts of guilt, embarrassment, and the strap shame they feel will never go away,​◈  The feel they are worth more dead than they are alive,​◈  The are being roerced into being a bomber,​
> On the other hand, being engaged in violent criminal activity, while having similar factors that influence it, have slightly different pathologies behind them:
> 
> ◈  They exhibit psychopathic tendencies (NO conscience, NO moral brakes, NO empathy).​◈  They exhibit sociopathic tendencies are rather quick to assume a hostile/violent posture.  They know "right" from "wrong" but they are NOT persausive.​◈  Environmental factors.​✦  Unemployment​✦  Family discourse • family need​✦  Perception of Great need​✦  Materialism​
> When I look at this "thumbnail" list, I see quite readily that factors that motivate the HoAP into the various facets of terrorist activity.  But there is one aspect that should hit home hard and resonat in the Arab Palestinian Community:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSM-5 The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders • Fifth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the reference manual that defines the symptoms of mental disorders.))
> Defines antisocial personality as someone have 3 or more of the following traits:
> 
> Regularly breaks or flouts the law
> Constantly lies and deceives others
> Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
> Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
> Has little regard for the safety of others
> Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
> Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When we see the HoAP attempt to justify the Killing of Israelis/Jews, and glorify the Terrorist that kills unarmed women and children in a face-to-face confrontation, we can also see the *seven traits from the DSM-5*.
> 
> *Death to Israel, the occupation, and the Zionist terror!**' Palestinians tuning in were told.*
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *Terror, Terror, Terror – **remains Fatah’s motto for 2021*
> *I want to kill all the jews*
> Islamic Scholar says: * Female Suicide Bombers are Role Models*
> Those of us who do not have a DSM-5 defined mental disorder can see immediately what is "Right" from what is "Wrong."  We know instinctively what is what.  But now and then, you will find those who's mind you cannot change.  They openly justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  They applaud "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  The only question is:  Are they, sociopaths? •  or • Are they, psychopaths?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberation is criminal?
> 
> You think funny.
Click to expand...

Liberation is not criminal.

Indeed, what is liberating about a 7th century theocratic code? You, obviously, have found being liberated means to stay far away from such locations where 7th century theocratic codes are imposed.

Hamas court says women need a male guardian's approval to travel - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

GAZA CITY — 
A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel, further restricting movement in and out of the territory that has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt since the militant group seized power.




Indeed, whenever I read the term ''islamic court'', I just know people are being ''unliberated'', indeed, their liberties perhaps removed via gunfire from Islamic goons, indeed, their liberties subject to removal by decree of an Emir, Ayatollah, Imam or a fatwa scratched out ordering an islamo-hit, capisce?


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Designation
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> 
> The application of an interdisciplinary, evidence-based explanation of terrorism,
> 
> national identity, and political legitimacy may be the most effective method of
> 
> understanding and combating political violence.
> 
> ..................................................................................................._Jean E. Rosenfeld_
> ...................................................................................................Academic Researcher UCLA (2011)​
> *BLUF:* It is difficult to talk about Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) motivation to pursue terrorist agenda.  Different members have different reasoning.  By the time of the closure of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) those that were to become the HoAP were generally destitute and unemployed _(some underemployed)_.  Some were dissatisfied with the economic conditions, while others were motivated by the perceived vulnerability of the Allied Powers _(imperial exemplars)_ after World War I _(and to an similar extent, World War II_) to pursue avenues to support and build families while others chased nationalism and self-determination.  Criminal activities and a growing terrorist posture was successfully being developed as a practice, in part because the various territorial authorities and properties became lucrative targets that did not want to expend the resources required to hold on to extraterritorial possessions or invest in nation building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas glorifies suicide bombings, promises imprisoned terrorists will get “reward” from Allah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​Hamas continues to be unwavering in its hate of Israel and its desire to destroy it entirely. Not surprisingly, a filler on Hamas TV expressed support and joy over suicide bombings in Israel, and taught that imprisoned terrorists and murderers will also – just like the suicide bomber - be rewarded for their actions by Allah.
> 
> In the filler, actors portraying imprisoned Palestinian terrorists cheer “the worst suicide bombing in Tel Aviv” as the news of it is broadcast on Israeli TV. But in the midst of their rejoicing and shouts of “Allahu Akbar” – “Allah is greatest” – one prisoner is crying. While he weeps over the missed opportunity to carry out the attack with the suicide bomber as he had planned, a fellow terrorist assures him that he too will be rewarded for his actions by Allah:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While Psychology professionals will tell you a very complicated story and reasoning → there are _(generally speaking)_ six _(most common)_ kinds of "suicide bombers:
> 
> ◈  The mentally handicapped, or intised by the belief of rewards in the after-life,​◈  The one that believe they have no better life to look forward to having,​◈  They harbor feelings of helpless, or a burden in some manner,​◈  The endless thoughts of guilt, embarrassment, and the strap shame they feel will never go away,​◈  The feel they are worth more dead than they are alive,​◈  The are being roerced into being a bomber,​
> On the other hand, being engaged in violent criminal activity, while having similar factors that influence it, have slightly different pathologies behind them:
> 
> ◈  They exhibit psychopathic tendencies (NO conscience, NO moral brakes, NO empathy).​◈  They exhibit sociopathic tendencies are rather quick to assume a hostile/violent posture.  They know "right" from "wrong" but they are NOT persausive.​◈  Environmental factors.​✦  Unemployment​✦  Family discourse • family need​✦  Perception of Great need​✦  Materialism​
> When I look at this "thumbnail" list, I see quite readily that factors that motivate the HoAP into the various facets of terrorist activity.  But there is one aspect that should hit home hard and resonat in the Arab Palestinian Community:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSM-5 The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders • Fifth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the reference manual that defines the symptoms of mental disorders.))
> Defines antisocial personality as someone have 3 or more of the following traits:
> 
> Regularly breaks or flouts the law
> Constantly lies and deceives others
> Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
> Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
> Has little regard for the safety of others
> Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
> Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When we see the HoAP attempt to justify the Killing of Israelis/Jews, and glorify the Terrorist that kills unarmed women and children in a face-to-face confrontation, we can also see the *seven traits from the DSM-5*.
> 
> *Death to Israel, the occupation, and the Zionist terror!**' Palestinians tuning in were told.*
> *Fatah TV host presents murderers as the essence of Fatah*
> *Terror, Terror, Terror – **remains Fatah’s motto for 2021*
> *I want to kill all the jews*
> Islamic Scholar says: * Female Suicide Bombers are Role Models*
> Those of us who do not have a DSM-5 defined mental disorder can see immediately what is "Right" from what is "Wrong."  We know instinctively what is what.  But now and then, you will find those who's mind you cannot change.  They openly justify Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  They applaud "criminal acts" directed against Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  The only question is:  Are they, sociopaths? •  or • Are they, psychopaths?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


"_Are they, sociopaths? •  or • Are they, psychopaths?''_


Doctors don’t officially diagnose people as *psychopaths* or *sociopaths*. They use a different term instead: antisocial personality disorder. Most experts believe *psychopaths* and *sociopaths* share a similar set of traits. People like this have a poor inner sense of right and wrong.

*What’s the Difference Between a Sociopath and a Psychopath?*



www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/sociopath-psychopath-difference


----------



## Hollie

There’s a phrase that the infidels understand: “follow the money”.

There is fabulous wealth shared by individuals in the territories occupied by the Islamic terrorist franchises of Hamas and Fatah. Hamas is recognized as the “world’s second richest Islamic terrorist organization”. The west, in particular, has been very generous toward making the Pally’s well paid Islamic terrorists. 

*How much did PA spend on terror salaries in 2020?*
Maurice Hirsch, Itamar Marcus, and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 22, 2021









						How much did the PA spend on terrorists' salaries in 2020? | PMW Analysis
					

3.25% of the PA’s 2020 expenditure paid salaries to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners




					palwatch.org
				




*The PA paid at least 512 million shekels in salaries to terrorist prisoners, in 2020*
*3.25% of the PA’s 2020 budget paid salaries to terrorist prisoners and released prisoners.*
*In 2020 the PA attempted to hide its payments to terrorist prisoners  by transferring over a billion shekels to the PLO, of which 512 million shekels paid the terrorists. As in past years, PMW has uncovered and is now exposing this deception.*
*In a year fraught with global financial instability, 6.25% of the PA’s expenditures went to the non-transparent “PLO institutions”.*


----------



## Hollie

That endlessly deep pit of want and need (the territories occupied by the so-called Pal’istanians), are as usual, unable to provide for themselves.

As usual, it falls to others to meet their perceived entitlements. A $30m-funding shortfall is just the latest disaster the rest of the planet is expected to resolve for the Pally’s. 












						Palestinian vaccine drive faces funding shortfall: World Bank
					

Bank urges Israel, which has made the most progress globally on vaccination, to give Palestinians its surplus shots.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





The Palestinians’ COVID-19 vaccination plan faces a $30m-funding shortfall, even after factoring in support from a global vaccine scheme for poorer economies, the World Bank said in a report on Monday.

Israel, a world leader in terms of vaccination speed, should consider donating surplus doses to the Palestinians to help accelerate a vaccine roll-out in the occupied West Bank and Gaza, the bank said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> That endlessly deep pit of want and need (the territories occupied by the so-called Pal’istanians), are as usual, unable to provide for themselves.
> 
> As usual, it falls to others to meet their perceived entitlements. A $30m-funding shortfall is just the latest disaster the rest of the planet is expected to resolve for the Pally’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian vaccine drive faces funding shortfall: World Bank
> 
> 
> Bank urges Israel, which has made the most progress globally on vaccination, to give Palestinians its surplus shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians’ COVID-19 vaccination plan faces a $30m-funding shortfall, even after factoring in support from a global vaccine scheme for poorer economies, the World Bank said in a report on Monday.
> 
> Israel, a world leader in terms of vaccination speed, should consider donating surplus doses to the Palestinians to help accelerate a vaccine roll-out in the occupied West Bank and Gaza, the bank said.


Israel is the reason that the Palestinians need aid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That endlessly deep pit of want and need (the territories occupied by the so-called Pal’istanians), are as usual, unable to provide for themselves.
> 
> As usual, it falls to others to meet their perceived entitlements. A $30m-funding shortfall is just the latest disaster the rest of the planet is expected to resolve for the Pally’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian vaccine drive faces funding shortfall: World Bank
> 
> 
> Bank urges Israel, which has made the most progress globally on vaccination, to give Palestinians its surplus shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians’ COVID-19 vaccination plan faces a $30m-funding shortfall, even after factoring in support from a global vaccine scheme for poorer economies, the World Bank said in a report on Monday.
> 
> Israel, a world leader in terms of vaccination speed, should consider donating surplus doses to the Palestinians to help accelerate a vaccine roll-out in the occupied West Bank and Gaza, the bank said.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the reason that the Palestinians need aid.
Click to expand...


Pally incompetence is the reason the Pally welfare society needs aid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That endlessly deep pit of want and need (the territories occupied by the so-called Pal’istanians), are as usual, unable to provide for themselves.
> 
> As usual, it falls to others to meet their perceived entitlements. A $30m-funding shortfall is just the latest disaster the rest of the planet is expected to resolve for the Pally’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian vaccine drive faces funding shortfall: World Bank
> 
> 
> Bank urges Israel, which has made the most progress globally on vaccination, to give Palestinians its surplus shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians’ COVID-19 vaccination plan faces a $30m-funding shortfall, even after factoring in support from a global vaccine scheme for poorer economies, the World Bank said in a report on Monday.
> 
> Israel, a world leader in terms of vaccination speed, should consider donating surplus doses to the Palestinians to help accelerate a vaccine roll-out in the occupied West Bank and Gaza, the bank said.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the reason that the Palestinians need aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pally incompetence is the reason the Pally welfare society needs aid.
Click to expand...

Before Israel they needed no aid. After Israel they do.

Take that for what it is worth.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That endlessly deep pit of want and need (the territories occupied by the so-called Pal’istanians), are as usual, unable to provide for themselves.
> 
> As usual, it falls to others to meet their perceived entitlements. A $30m-funding shortfall is just the latest disaster the rest of the planet is expected to resolve for the Pally’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian vaccine drive faces funding shortfall: World Bank
> 
> 
> Bank urges Israel, which has made the most progress globally on vaccination, to give Palestinians its surplus shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians’ COVID-19 vaccination plan faces a $30m-funding shortfall, even after factoring in support from a global vaccine scheme for poorer economies, the World Bank said in a report on Monday.
> 
> Israel, a world leader in terms of vaccination speed, should consider donating surplus doses to the Palestinians to help accelerate a vaccine roll-out in the occupied West Bank and Gaza, the bank said.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the reason that the Palestinians need aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pally incompetence is the reason the Pally welfare society needs aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel they needed no aid. After Israel they do.
> 
> Take that for what it is worth.
Click to expand...

Not worth much.

Excuses for self-inflicted failure. Is that all you got?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Oh, those poor, oppressed Pally's. No matter how much you give them, it's never enough to satisfy their presumed entitlement.
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
> 
> *No-win: Israeli free training, loans, and grants to Palestinians are an "attack” on young Palestinians, leading to “Israelization”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No-win: Israeli free training, loans, and grants to Palestinians are an "attack” on young Palestinians, leading to “Israelization” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Training supervisor of YWCA lashed out at Israel for offering “free training, loans, and grants” to young Palestinians “like crazy.” She criticized the “competition from the Israeli institutions,” describing it as “an attack” that leads to “Israelization” of the young Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 21, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> This is a textbook example of Israel's no-win predicament:
> The PA’s standard libel is that Israel is deliberately trying to harm Palestinians and at other times Israel is criticized by the PA for allegedly not taking care of Palestinians.
> But now when Israel has created a special program to create economic opportunities for Palestinians it is being criticized for its “attack” that is causing “Israelization” among Palestinian youth. For Israel it’s a tragic no-win.





Hollie said:


> For Israel it’s a tragic no-win.



Actually it's a step forward and a win situation for Israel.

Recently I've been listening closer to Rabbi Yehuda Hakohen,
one of the main points he's discussing is how Israel's full sovereignty
would materialize, and the practical ways to start already gradually applying it.

Specifically he's talking about Israel gradually taking the responsibility
for the PA and Gaza civil workers salaries, while moving forward to involve
wider spheres of local government, medical workers, infrastructure etc. under Israeli care.

And that's exactly what we see here.
They complain about "Israelization"? Great!
It's openly clear, it's finally true, it signals acceptance of reality,
which sets stage to dealing with the practical aspects of this inevitable development.

Actually, I couldn't expect a better response,
ask Yourself, really, could their *public* reaction be anymore positive?


----------



## Hollie

Pally terrorist youth movement.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Before the establishment of Israel, the ungrateful Arab Palestinians were under the Administration of the Mandate for Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> Before Israel they needed no aid. After Israel they do.


*(COMMENT)*

Prior to the establishment of Israel, the Territory subject to the Mandate and "inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves."

From 1922 until 1948, the High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  For various excuses, the Arab Palestinians reject participation in self-governing institutions.

From November 1947 until May 1948, while the Jewish Agency and the National Council for the Jewish State worked tirelessly in the creation of self-governing institutions across the entire spectrum of government.  In 1948 the National Council for the Jewish State applied for recognition of the Provisional Government.  The Arab Palestinians did not lift a finger in the establishment of any aspect of government and did not have a functioning provisional government.



P F Tinmore said:


> Take that for what it is worth.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, I would say that it is not worth the Israeli Shekel, used by the Arab Palestinians as currency.  But → that would be an insult to the value of the Shekel.  So, in my opinion, it is not worth a single Donor Community Dollar used to prop-up the Ramallah Government and Gaza City Governments _(such as they are)_.

*




*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> For various excuses, the Arab Palestinians reject participation in self-governing institutions.


What was the poison pill? Every offer ever made to the Palestinians had a poison pill.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> For various excuses, the Arab Palestinians reject participation in self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> What was the poison pill? Every offer ever made to the Palestinians had a poison pill.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> For various excuses, the Arab Palestinians reject participation in self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> What was the poison pill? Every offer ever made to the Palestinians had a poison pill.
Click to expand...


Half of something is better than 100% of nothing, eh moron?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Before the establishment of Israel, the ungrateful Arab Palestinians were under the Administration of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before Israel they needed no aid. After Israel they do.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Prior to the establishment of Israel, the Territory subject to the Mandate and "inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves."
> 
> From 1922 until 1948, the High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  For various excuses, the Arab Palestinians reject participation in self-governing institutions.
> 
> From November 1947 until May 1948, while the Jewish Agency and the National Council for the Jewish State worked tirelessly in the creation of self-governing institutions across the entire spectrum of government.  In 1948 the National Council for the Jewish State applied for recognition of the Provisional Government.  The Arab Palestinians did not lift a finger in the establishment of any aspect of government and did not have a functioning provisional government.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take that for what it is worth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, I would say that it is not worth the Israeli Shekel, used by the Arab Palestinians as currency.  But → that would be an insult to the value of the Shekel.  So, in my opinion, it is not worth a single Donor Community Dollar used to prop-up the Ramallah Government and Gaza City Governments _(such as they are)_.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Before Israel they needed no aid. After Israel they do.


*



			(COMMENT)
		
Click to expand...

*


> Prior to the establishment of Israel, the Territory subject to the Mandate and "inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves."
> 
> From 1922 until 1948, the High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  For various excuses, the Arab Palestinians reject participation in self-governing institutions. Blah, blah, blah.


What does all that crapola have to do with aid?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What does all that crapola have to do with aid?


The Pally's have been getting welfare aid for decades. It appears they will forever be welfare dependent.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The Mandatory Government covers budget costs and all debt. That is obvious from the A05 Series A: Collection of Judgments (1923-1930) | Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ • 1922-1946)



P F Tinmore said:


> What does all that crapola have to do with aid?


*(COMMENT)*

When a Mandatory Government provides for the entire cost of the Administration, especially when the Staff of the High Commissioner is entirely British _(Arab Palestinians rejected all efforts to include them in government)_, that is essentially the same as "donor contributions" _(ie "aid"; what is called (today) → UK Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office, Direct Aid supports small and medium-sized civil society organizations to deliver the Global Goals)_. 

You do this quite often.  You intentionally act as if the • dots • are impossible to connect.  Just who in the hell do you think was picking up the tab for the cost of the British Administration of Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials?

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* The Mandatory Government covers budget costs and all debt. That is obvious from the A05 Series A: Collection of Judgments (1923-1930) | Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ • 1922-1946)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does all that crapola have to do with aid?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When a Mandatory Government provides for the entire cost of the Administration, especially when the Staff of the High Commissioner is entirely British _(Arab Palestinians rejected all efforts to include them in government)_, that is essentially the same as "donor contributions" _(ie "aid"; what is called (today) → UK Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office, Direct Aid supports small and medium-sized civil society organizations to deliver the Global Goals)_.
> 
> You do this quite often.  You intentionally act as if the • dots • are impossible to connect.  Just who in the hell do you think was picking up the tab for the cost of the British Administration of Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Ottoman's collected 30% tax from the Palestinians and they required no aid. Palestine had a government (headed by British officials and staffed by Palestinians) and they collected taxes also.

Britain overspent on time and security by choice.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* The Mandatory Government covers budget costs and all debt. That is obvious from the A05 Series A: Collection of Judgments (1923-1930) | Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ • 1922-1946)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does all that crapola have to do with aid?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When a Mandatory Government provides for the entire cost of the Administration, especially when the Staff of the High Commissioner is entirely British _(Arab Palestinians rejected all efforts to include them in government)_, that is essentially the same as "donor contributions" _(ie "aid"; what is called (today) → UK Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office, Direct Aid supports small and medium-sized civil society organizations to deliver the Global Goals)_.
> 
> You do this quite often.  You intentionally act as if the • dots • are impossible to connect.  Just who in the hell do you think was picking up the tab for the cost of the British Administration of Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Ottoman's collected 30% tax from the Palestinians and they required no aid. Palestine had a government (headed by British officials and staffed by Palestinians) and they collected taxes also.
> 
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.
Click to expand...

How do you know Britain overspent on time and security by choice?

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The British Administration did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1922-1948. The Jordanians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948 - 1967. The Egyptians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948-1967. The Israelis did not have to put out a general call for donations for Area "C" since the Oslo accords.  The international donor program for the Arab Palestinian governments in Ramallah and Gaza only started after the Arab Palestinians demanded recognition as a state under the _*Montevideo Convention (Article 1)*_ and the Right of Self-Determination.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Ottoman's collected 30% tax from the Palestinians and they required no aid. Palestine had a government (headed by British officials and staffed by Palestinians) and they collected taxes also.
> 
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.


*(COMMENT)*

We are not talking exclusively about the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine quasi-Refugees in the Near East_ (UNRWA) Appeals (11 February 2021)_ for US$ 806 million (plus) to support core services (education, health, relief, social services, protection, infrastructure and camp improvements). It appears that the new Administration will resume some funding, but the amount is not immediately understood.

Either the Arab Palestinians have an actual government that is not dependent on International Donations to support its budget, - OR - the Arag Palestinians do not have an Article 22 Stand-alone Government.  

Currently, the Ramallah and Gaza Governments cannot provide the necessary medical services for COVID-19 Vaccination programs. The International Community is placing the blame on the Israelis since the Arab Palestinian Governments cannot functionally adapt and provides their own standalone services.

The_ Jewish Voice for Peace Health Advisory Council (JVP-HAC) calls on Israel to assume its responsibility _to distribute vaccines to Palestinians (22 FEB 2021) in the occupied territory.​​
*Israel provides COVID-19 vaccine doses for *​*Palestinian health-care workers*​_Israel transferred today 2,000 coronavirus vaccine doses to the Palestinian Authority (PA)._ 
The Pfizer-made vaccine doses were delivered through the Betunia trade crossing point in 
the southwest of Ramallah in the West Bank. A second delivery of 3,000 doses is expected 
in the coming days, with both deliveries destined for Palestinian health-care workers. 
It was the first time Israel handed over to the Palestinians significant coronavirus 
vaccines from its own supply.
​​
The question is, who is overspending and on what?  

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* The British Administration did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1922-1948. The Jordanians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948 - 1967. The Egyptians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948-1967. The Israelis did not have to put out a general call for donations for Area "C" since the Oslo accords.  The international donor program for the Arab Palestinian governments in Ramallah and Gaza only started after the Arab Palestinians demanded recognition as a state under the _*Montevideo Convention (Article 1)*_ and the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ottoman's collected 30% tax from the Palestinians and they required no aid. Palestine had a government (headed by British officials and staffed by Palestinians) and they collected taxes also.
> 
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are not talking exclusively about the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine quasi-Refugees in the Near East_ (UNRWA) Appeals (11 February 2021)_ for US$ 806 million (plus) to support core services (education, health, relief, social services, protection, infrastructure and camp improvements). It appears that the new Administration will resume some funding, but the amount is not immediately understood.
> 
> Either the Arab Palestinians have an actual government that is not dependent on International Donations to support its budget, - OR - the Arag Palestinians do not have an Article 22 Stand-alone Government.
> 
> Currently, the Ramallah and Gaza Governments cannot provide the necessary medical services for COVID-19 Vaccination programs. The International Community is placing the blame on the Israelis since the Arab Palestinian Governments cannot functionally adapt and provides their own standalone services.
> 
> The_ Jewish Voice for Peace Health Advisory Council (JVP-HAC) calls on Israel to assume its responsibility _to distribute vaccines to Palestinians (22 FEB 2021) in the occupied territory.​​
> ​*Israel provides COVID-19 vaccine doses for *​*Palestinian health-care workers*​
> _Israel transferred today 2,000 coronavirus vaccine doses to the Palestinian Authority (PA)._
> The Pfizer-made vaccine doses were delivered through the Betunia trade crossing point in
> the southwest of Ramallah in the West Bank. A second delivery of 3,000 doses is expected
> in the coming days, with both deliveries destined for Palestinian health-care workers.
> It was the first time Israel handed over to the Palestinians significant coronavirus
> vaccines from its own supply.​​
> ​
> The question is, who is overspending and on what?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Says the guy who does not know how regional economies work.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* The British Administration did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1922-1948. The Jordanians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948 - 1967. The Egyptians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948-1967. The Israelis did not have to put out a general call for donations for Area "C" since the Oslo accords.  The international donor program for the Arab Palestinian governments in Ramallah and Gaza only started after the Arab Palestinians demanded recognition as a state under the _*Montevideo Convention (Article 1)*_ and the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ottoman's collected 30% tax from the Palestinians and they required no aid. Palestine had a government (headed by British officials and staffed by Palestinians) and they collected taxes also.
> 
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are not talking exclusively about the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine quasi-Refugees in the Near East_ (UNRWA) Appeals (11 February 2021)_ for US$ 806 million (plus) to support core services (education, health, relief, social services, protection, infrastructure and camp improvements). It appears that the new Administration will resume some funding, but the amount is not immediately understood.
> 
> Either the Arab Palestinians have an actual government that is not dependent on International Donations to support its budget, - OR - the Arag Palestinians do not have an Article 22 Stand-alone Government.
> 
> Currently, the Ramallah and Gaza Governments cannot provide the necessary medical services for COVID-19 Vaccination programs. The International Community is placing the blame on the Israelis since the Arab Palestinian Governments cannot functionally adapt and provides their own standalone services.
> 
> The_ Jewish Voice for Peace Health Advisory Council (JVP-HAC) calls on Israel to assume its responsibility _to distribute vaccines to Palestinians (22 FEB 2021) in the occupied territory.​​
> ​*Israel provides COVID-19 vaccine doses for *​*Palestinian health-care workers*​
> _Israel transferred today 2,000 coronavirus vaccine doses to the Palestinian Authority (PA)._
> The Pfizer-made vaccine doses were delivered through the Betunia trade crossing point in
> the southwest of Ramallah in the West Bank. A second delivery of 3,000 doses is expected
> in the coming days, with both deliveries destined for Palestinian health-care workers.
> It was the first time Israel handed over to the Palestinians significant coronavirus
> vaccines from its own supply.​​
> ​
> The question is, who is overspending and on what?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The question is, who is overspending and on what?


The answer is:
Britain overspent on time and security by choice.

According to Article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the Mandates were to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Palestine already had a functioning society, economy, and local governments. (class A Mandate)They needed very little. With a handful of advisors, Britain could have been in and out of there in ten years or so.

Instead, Britain maintained a full military presence for 30 years and still did not develop a few national institutions. What was the problem? Were they just stupid?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC: Need for Aid •
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* The British Administration did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1922-1948. The Jordanians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948 - 1967. The Egyptians did not have to put out a general call for donations between 1948-1967. The Israelis did not have to put out a general call for donations for Area "C" since the Oslo accords.  The international donor program for the Arab Palestinian governments in Ramallah and Gaza only started after the Arab Palestinians demanded recognition as a state under the _*Montevideo Convention (Article 1)*_ and the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ottoman's collected 30% tax from the Palestinians and they required no aid. Palestine had a government (headed by British officials and staffed by Palestinians) and they collected taxes also.
> 
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are not talking exclusively about the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine quasi-Refugees in the Near East_ (UNRWA) Appeals (11 February 2021)_ for US$ 806 million (plus) to support core services (education, health, relief, social services, protection, infrastructure and camp improvements). It appears that the new Administration will resume some funding, but the amount is not immediately understood.
> 
> Either the Arab Palestinians have an actual government that is not dependent on International Donations to support its budget, - OR - the Arag Palestinians do not have an Article 22 Stand-alone Government.
> 
> Currently, the Ramallah and Gaza Governments cannot provide the necessary medical services for COVID-19 Vaccination programs. The International Community is placing the blame on the Israelis since the Arab Palestinian Governments cannot functionally adapt and provides their own standalone services.
> 
> The_ Jewish Voice for Peace Health Advisory Council (JVP-HAC) calls on Israel to assume its responsibility _to distribute vaccines to Palestinians (22 FEB 2021) in the occupied territory.​​
> ​*Israel provides COVID-19 vaccine doses for *​*Palestinian health-care workers*​
> _Israel transferred today 2,000 coronavirus vaccine doses to the Palestinian Authority (PA)._
> The Pfizer-made vaccine doses were delivered through the Betunia trade crossing point in
> the southwest of Ramallah in the West Bank. A second delivery of 3,000 doses is expected
> in the coming days, with both deliveries destined for Palestinian health-care workers.
> It was the first time Israel handed over to the Palestinians significant coronavirus
> vaccines from its own supply.​​
> ​
> The question is, who is overspending and on what?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is, who is overspending and on what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The answer is:
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.
> 
> According to Article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the Mandates were to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Palestine already had a functioning society, economy, and local governments. (class A Mandate)They needed very little. With a handful of advisors, Britain could have been in and out of there in ten years or so.
> 
> Instead, Britain maintained a full military presence for 30 years and still did not develop a few national institutions. What was the problem? Were they just stupid?
Click to expand...


“Britain overspent on time and security by choice.”

Link?


----------



## Hollie

I’m of the opinion that Hamas believes their Islamic terrorist syndicate will still be a partner in the UNRWA welfare fraud program if (when) Emir Abbas assumes his present role of dictator in charge. 











						Hamas says it won’t nominate presidential candidate for Palestinian elections
					

Remarks by senior official in terror group will likely come as a relief to PA President Abbas, who polls indicate would lose in a head-to-head with Hamas chief Haniyeh




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Hamas will not nominate a presidential candidate in the scheduled Palestinian elections, a senior official in the terror group told Al-Jazeera on Sunday.

Moussa Abu Marzouk’s remarks are likely to come as a relief to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who opinion polls indicate would lose in a head-to-head matchup with Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Says the guy who does not know how regional economies work.


*(COMMENT)*

This is a response levied at me, as opposed to the content of my commentary.



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.


*(COMMENT)*

It is not unusual for Caretaker Regimes and Administrative Powers to make investments in territories that they have economic, commercial, and manufacturing interests within.  But whether or not there is a "Caretaker Sovereignty"  involved or managed by "Self-Governing" entities, the Middle East and North Africa region (MENA) constituted a cultural, economic, and political geography that extends well beyond the region’s physical borders.  And while the Arab Palestinians are self-centered with a narrow view of the potential regional development, the post-WWI Allied Powers had a view of the region that fit the mosaic of the Greater Mediterranean traffic of international commercial patterns as it fits into the emerging world commerce and global economies.  The western nations that actually made some investment in Israel _(as opposed to the corrupted Jew-Arab Territory under Mandate)_ can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations and isolated cultures such as that of the Arab Palestinians.

The Mandatory Government (The British) tried hard to move the Territory under Mandate in a positive direction, but the constant end-fighting between the Jewish Culture and the Arab Culture strongly resisted cultural, economic, commercial, manufacturing, scientific, and political advancement that would have been beneficial to the stagnant Arab-Palestinian Local community, the emerging Jewish Culture, and the governing Administration.



P F Tinmore said:


> According to Article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the Mandates were to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Palestine already had a functioning society, economy, and local governments. (class A Mandate)They needed very little. With a handful of advisors, Britain could have been in and out of there in ten years or so.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't believe that is accurate at all.  In any event, that was not the assessment made by the powers-that-be at the period.  

While Arab Palestinians may have worked within the Ottoman governmental framework as minor functionaries, I doubt you can find a handful of Arab Palestinians that actually held senior leadership positions outside of service in the military against the Allied Powers.

Who, on the Arab Palestinian side of the equation, were the prominent cultural, economic, and political prior to the fall of the Ottoman Empire?  You will be very hard-pressed to name a dozen (or so) Arab Palestinians noted for making great strides in commerce, manufacturing, and scientific development in the last Millenium.  And while there were dozens and dozens of Arab Palestinian political personalities, you would be hard-pressed to name a handful of senior executive officials.



P F Tinmore said:


> Instead, Britain maintained a full military presence for 30 years and still did not develop a few national institutions. What was the problem? Were they just stupid?


*(COMMENT)*

And was that unuusal?

There were only four Class "A" Mandates for post-War territories:   Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine.

◈  IRAQ:  _Independence:  3 October 1932 • released from League of Nations mandate under British administration_​_◈  LEBANON:  Independence:  22 November 1943 • released from League of Nations mandate under French administration_​◈  SYRIA:  Independence:  _17 April 1946 • released from League of Nations mandate under French administration_​◈  PALESTINE:​✦  Jordan:  Independence 25 May 1946 _• released from League of Nations mandate under British administration_​✦  Israel:  Independence 15 May 1948 • released from _League of Nations mandate under British administration_​✦  West Bank:  ​_○  Occupied and administered by Jordan 15 May 1948 -_​○_  Occupied and administered by Israel  5-10 June 1967 - _​○  Sovereignty released by Jordan 31 July 1988 - Effective Control default to Israel -​✦  Gaza Strip:​_○  Occupied and administered by Egypt 15 May 1948 -_​_○  Occupied and administered by Israel  5-10 June 1967 - _​_○  Released by Israel Unilateral Withdrawal Completed September 12, 2005 - Default governance to Arab Palestinians -_​
OK, so the release of Palestine from the League of Nations Mandate was last.   With the exception of the Republic of Iraq, all the political entities were release from the Mandates within 5 years of each other.  And in remembering this, one has to acknowledge that the Arab Palestinians, from the very beginning of their administration under the Occupied *Enemy* Territory Administration (OETA), wanted treatment commensurate with the regional cultures that were members of an alliance with the Principal Allied Powers that were locked in conflict with the enemy Central Powers _(the alliance of Germany, Austria–Hungary, → *Ottoman*, and Bulgaria)_. That simply was not going to be the case. At that point in time historically, to treat members of the opposing force with the same post-War benefits as the members of the Alliance would be a betrayal _(almost deceitfulness)_ of the loyalty and dedication shown by the allied members.

*(EPILOG)*

○  After the Massacre of the Royal Family look at the outcome of Iraq. (Well)​○  After the independence of Lebanon, the collapse of the political stability a Civil War took place from 1975 to 1990. (Casualties 100K plus)​○  Look at Syria today:  Syrian Civil War, opposing political-religious activist groups. (Casualties 400K plus)​
None of these territories actually developed a stable political government.  The most stable of the group today is Lebanon.  Yet, the people elected Hezbollah (terrorist) to the government with 53% of the seats in Parliament.  Iraq is under a very strong influence of Iran, with its last Civil War (2014-2017) 400K died.  Syria is simply a mess.  We can argue the causes, but at the end of the day, these countries turned out NOT to be stable or stand on their own.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations


Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who does not know how regional economies work.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a response levied at me, as opposed to the content of my commentary.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain overspent on time and security by choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not unusual for Caretaker Regimes and Administrative Powers to make investments in territories that they have economic, commercial, and manufacturing interests within.  But whether or not there is a "Caretaker Sovereignty"  involved or managed by "Self-Governing" entities, the Middle East and North Africa region (MENA) constituted a cultural, economic, and political geography that extends well beyond the region’s physical borders.  And while the Arab Palestinians are self-centered with a narrow view of the potential regional development, the post-WWI Allied Powers had a view of the region that fit the mosaic of the Greater Mediterranean traffic of international commercial patterns as it fits into the emerging world commerce and global economies.  The western nations that actually made some investment in Israel _(as opposed to the corrupted Jew-Arab Territory under Mandate)_ can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations and isolated cultures such as that of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> The Mandatory Government (The British) tried hard to move the Territory under Mandate in a positive direction, but the constant end-fighting between the Jewish Culture and the Arab Culture strongly resisted cultural, economic, commercial, manufacturing, scientific, and political advancement that would have been beneficial to the stagnant Arab-Palestinian Local community, the emerging Jewish Culture, and the governing Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the Mandates were to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Palestine already had a functioning society, economy, and local governments. (class A Mandate)They needed very little. With a handful of advisors, Britain could have been in and out of there in ten years or so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't believe that is accurate at all.  In any event, that was not the assessment made by the powers-that-be at the period.
> 
> While Arab Palestinians may have worked within the Ottoman governmental framework as minor functionaries, I doubt you can find a handful of Arab Palestinians that actually held senior leadership positions outside of service in the military against the Allied Powers.
> 
> Who, on the Arab Palestinian side of the equation, were the prominent cultural, economic, and political prior to the fall of the Ottoman Empire?  You will be very hard-pressed to name a dozen (or so) Arab Palestinians noted for making great strides in commerce, manufacturing, and scientific development in the last Millenium.  And while there were dozens and dozens of Arab Palestinian political personalities, you would be hard-pressed to name a handful of senior executive officials.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead, Britain maintained a full military presence for 30 years and still did not develop a few national institutions. What was the problem? Were they just stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And was that unuusal?
> 
> There were only four Class "A" Mandates for post-War territories:   Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine.
> 
> ◈  IRAQ:  _Independence:  3 October 1932 • released from League of Nations mandate under British administration_​_◈  LEBANON:  Independence:  22 November 1943 • released from League of Nations mandate under French administration_​◈  SYRIA:  Independence:  _17 April 1946 • released from League of Nations mandate under French administration_​◈  PALESTINE:​✦  Jordan:  Independence 25 May 1946 _• released from League of Nations mandate under British administration_​✦  Israel:  Independence 15 May 1948 • released from _League of Nations mandate under British administration_​✦  West Bank:  ​_○  Occupied and administered by Jordan 15 May 1948 -_​○_  Occupied and administered by Israel  5-10 June 1967 - _​○  Sovereignty released by Jordan 31 July 1988 - Effective Control default to Israel -​✦  Gaza Strip:​_○  Occupied and administered by Egypt 15 May 1948 -_​_○  Occupied and administered by Israel  5-10 June 1967 - _​_○  Released by Israel Unilateral Withdrawal Completed September 12, 2005 - Default governance to Arab Palestinians -_​
> OK, so the release of Palestine from the League of Nations Mandate was last.   With the exception of the Republic of Iraq, all the political entities were release from the Mandates within 5 years of each other.  And in remembering this, one has to acknowledge that the Arab Palestinians, from the very beginning of their administration under the Occupied *Enemy* Territory Administration (OETA), wanted treatment commensurate with the regional cultures that were members of an alliance with the Principal Allied Powers that were locked in conflict with the enemy Central Powers _(the alliance of Germany, Austria–Hungary, → *Ottoman*, and Bulgaria)_. That simply was not going to be the case. At that point in time historically, to treat members of the opposing force with the same post-War benefits as the members of the Alliance would be a betrayal _(almost deceitfulness)_ of the loyalty and dedication shown by the allied members.
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> ○  After the Massacre of the Royal Family look at the outcome of Iraq. (Well)​○  After the independence of Lebanon, the collapse of the political stability a Civil War took place from 1975 to 1990. (Casualties 100K plus)​○  Look at Syria today:  Syrian Civil War, opposing political-religious activist groups. (Casualties 400K plus)​
> None of these territories actually developed a stable political government.  The most stable of the group today is Lebanon.  Yet, the people elected Hezbollah (terrorist) to the government with 53% of the seats in Parliament.  Iraq is under a very strong influence of Iran, with its last Civil War (2014-2017) 400K died.  Syria is simply a mess.  We can argue the causes, but at the end of the day, these countries turned out NOT to be stable or stand on their own.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> According to Article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the Mandates were to render administrative assistance and advice until the people could stand alone. Palestine already had a functioning society, economy, and local governments. (class A Mandate)They needed very little. With a handful of advisors, Britain could have been in and out of there in ten years or so.





P F Tinmore said:


> Instead, Britain maintained a full military presence for 30 years and still did not develop a few national institutions. What was the problem? Were they just stupid?


*(COMMENT)

What does all that blabber have to do with my post?*


----------



## Kondor3

There never has been - nor will there ever be - a *country* called 'Palestine'...

The Muslim-Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank couldn't find their a$$e$ with both hands in a well-lit room lined with mirrors.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
Click to expand...

I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''. 

Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
Click to expand...

Sure, since you know so little about Israel.

From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
Click to expand...

Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot. 

The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?

That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine.



Still more than the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
Click to expand...

Wearing your Islamo-dancing shoes?

The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?


----------



## Hollie

This is like watching stinging satire. 












						Palestinian political prisoner Marwan Barghouti for president?
					

If Barghouti runs and wins the Palestinian election, he may well become Palestine’s Nelson Mandela.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Palestinian politician Marwan Barghouti, who is seen as the leader of the First and Second Intifada, is serving five life sentences in an Israeli prison. His intention to run for president in the upcoming Palestinian elections has shaken the Palestinian political scene. If he runs and wins, as recent polls have suggested he might, his victory could reshape the Palestinian cause with great implications for the Israeli occupation.

Predictably, Barghouti is facing a stiff opposition from the octogenarian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is planning a rerun, and from his clique of loyalists in the Fatah party, who have been running the Palestinian Authority for over two decades.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
Click to expand...


By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.

Why do Arabs fear revealing the Ottoman archive?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
Click to expand...

That ducks the question.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
Click to expand...


No, the question is addressed directly,
you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.

So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
or you're that stupid and just repeating stupid things without understanding them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
Click to expand...

You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
Click to expand...


Ok, but does that refute what I say?
I've answered yours, didn't see you answer mine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, but does that refute what I say?
> I've answered yours, didn't see you answer mine.
Click to expand...

What part of my response do you not understand?


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why do Arabs fear revealing the Ottoman archive?
Click to expand...


The Pals were given Ottoman land records back in 2005. They did nothing with those because it actually refuted their case for ownership of land.






						Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority
					

The PA had requested the records to support Palestinian land claims prior to British takeover.




					www.haaretz.com
				




Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917.

...

Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments. 

Ever since 1948, Palestinian institutions dealing with the refugee issue have been trying to obtain accurate records on the land and property that were lost when Israel was established. This effort has gained steam in recent years, but no Palestinian institution has come close to collecting all the relevant data. One reason for the lackadaisical effort may be the Palestinians' understanding that the data has little practical value other than for public relations. At most, it will be used in the bargaining over compensation for refugees, if and when such negotiations take place.


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, but does that refute what I say?
> I've answered yours, didn't see you answer mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my response do you not understand?
Click to expand...


No I understand now perfectly - because you can't defend any of the nonesense you mindlessly repeat, or address the followup questions, everyone else is stupid, not you.

See, It takes me just 2 posts before gaslighting
becomes a BDS-hole's last line of defense.

If you believe facts are on your side,
why do all your arguments end with mere accusations,
but you can't actually address anything or string an original thought?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
Click to expand...

Now that's pretty darn funny.


----------



## rylah

Remember how propaganda outlets and even the mainstream media tried to paint Gaza as some kind of progressive society, where women can be taxi drivers and gas station attendants? 

We already saw a huge crack in that narrative when the female taxi driver was attacked.
Now the mainstream media has dealt another blow to the illusion they have been trying to maintain.


*Hamas court says women need a male guardian’s approval to travel*






ASSOCIATED PRESS
FEB. 15, 2021 UPDATED 12:40 PM PT
GAZA CITY —

A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel, further restricting movement in and out of the territory that has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt since the militant group seized power.

The rollback in women’s rights could spark a backlash in Gaza at a time when the Palestinians plan to hold elections later this year. It could also solidify Hamas’ support among its conservative base at a time when it faces criticism over living conditions in the territory it has ruled since 2007.

The decision by the Sharia Judicial Council, issued Sunday, says an unmarried woman may not travel without the permission of her “guardian,” which would usually refer to her father or another older male relative. Permission would need to be registered at the court.









						Hamas court says women need a male guardian's approval to travel
					

A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel.




					www.latimes.com


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## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Hollie said:
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, but does that refute what I say?
> I've answered yours, didn't see you answer mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my response do you not understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I understand now perfectly - because you can't defend any of the nonesense you mindlessly repeat, or address the followup questions, everyone else is stupid, not you.
> 
> See, It takes me just 2 posts before gaslighting
> becomes a BDS-hole's last line of defense.
> 
> If you believe facts are on your side,
> why do all your arguments end with mere accusations,
> but you can't actually address anything or string an original thought?
Click to expand...

You still have not addressed the application of sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, but does that refute what I say?
> I've answered yours, didn't see you answer mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my response do you not understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I understand now perfectly - because you can't defend any of the nonesense you mindlessly repeat, or address the followup questions, everyone else is stupid, not you.
> 
> See, It takes me just 2 posts before gaslighting
> becomes a BDS-hole's last line of defense.
> 
> If you believe facts are on your side,
> why do all your arguments end with mere accusations,
> but you can't actually address anything or string an original thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still have not addressed the application of sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  You are intentionally trying to confuse the issue.  There are TWO kinds of sovereignty.

◈ * Individual sovereignty* as it applies to emancipation. * We are not talking about an individual person* being set free from some legal, social, or political restrictions; or coming of age.​​◈ We are talking about "*State Sovereignty*" wherein political theory, the ultimate authority in the *decision-making process of the state* and in the maintenance of order.​



P F Tinmore said:


> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.





P F Tinmore said:


> You still have not addressed the application of sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)

State Sovereignty is NOT dependent on individual sovereignty*.  I'll use the example of the Regional State of "Saudi Arabia."  Saudi Arabia is a government ruled under the theory of "absolutism."  It is a political doctrine and practice of unlimited, centralized authority and absolute sovereignty, especially as vested in a monarch.

NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._

*




*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You are intentionally trying to confuse the issue.  There are TWO kinds of sovereignty.
> 
> ◈ * Individual sovereignty* as it applies to emancipation. * We are not talking about an individual person* being set free from some legal, social, or political restrictions; or coming of age.​​◈ We are talking about "*State Sovereignty*" wherein political theory, the ultimate authority in the *decision-making process of the state* and in the maintenance of order.​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still have not addressed the application of sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> State Sovereignty is NOT dependent on individual sovereignty*.  I'll use the example of the Regional State of "Saudi Arabia."  Saudi Arabia is a government ruled under the theory of "absolutism."  It is a political doctrine and practice of unlimited, centralized authority and absolute sovereignty, especially as vested in a monarch.
> 
> NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I try to keep it simple. I post a one liner question and get a page of deflection.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



RoccoR said:


> NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._





P F Tinmore said:


> I try to keep it simple. I post a one liner question and get a page of deflection.


*(COMMENT)*

Here - you did it again.

And I would not complain about the thumbnail comprehensive answers.  Even the childlike questions about → what is life? or → why is the sky blue? are more complex than a one-line answer can make it.

NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I try to keep it simple. I post a one liner question and get a page of deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Here - you did it again.
> 
> And I would not complain about the thumbnail comprehensive answers.  Even the childlike questions about → what is life? or → why is the sky blue? are more complex than a one-line answer can make it.
> 
> NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I try to keep it simple. I post a one liner question and get a page of deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Here - you did it again.
> 
> And I would not complain about the thumbnail comprehensive answers.  Even the childlike questions about → what is life? or → why is the sky blue? are more complex than a one-line answer can make it.
> 
> NOW!  What is your question you are so anxious to have addressed? _ Use the "KISS" principle._
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't sovereign nationals already be, you know, sovereign?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Addressed in* Posting #18722*



P F Tinmore said:


> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.


*(COMMENT)*

This is a statement, NOT a question.  I disagree with your statement.  It is clear that my understand of "sovereignty" is much different than your understanding.

Reference:
​The question of state "*sovereignty*" as in the "principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members" [*Article 2(1) Chapter I, UN Charter*] "is not originally or primarily an abstract idea fashioned by philosophers and other theoreticians and then applied in practice. It is an expedient idea worked out by kings and other rulers, and their representatives and agents, in response to the novel circumstances of sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Europe. The political arrangements and legal practices of sovereignty came first, the academic theories later." (Preface xi • *Sovereignty Evolution of an Idea* • Copyright © Robert Jackson 2007 • First published in 2007 by Polity Press, Cambridge CB2 1UR, UK • ISBN-13: 978-07456-2338-2) Sovereignty is a distinctive configuration of state authority. "By 'state' I refer to the conventional meaning: a defined and delimited territory, with a permanent population, under the authority of a government. A 'state' could be a colonial state in an empire or a 'state' of the United States. Neither of those states, however, are 'sovereign' states. Governmental supremacy and independence is that distinctive configuration of state authority that we refer to as 'sovereignty' -." (Page 6 • Copyright © Robert Jackson)​

			
				Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *sovereignty*   ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.  Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of supreme authority within a State.
> *SOURCE*:  *Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law,* Page 563, Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016



There is no dependent connection wherein "individual sovereignty" is required or a prerequisite for "state sovereignty." It is totally dependent on domestic and the type of government.

Do you have enough information? •  Or • Do you have a follow-on topic?

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Addressed in* Posting #18722*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a statement, NOT a question.  I disagree with your statement.  It is clear that my understand of "sovereignty" is much different than your understanding.
> 
> Reference:
> ​The question of state "*sovereignty*" as in the "principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members" [*Article 2(1) Chapter I, UN Charter*] "is not originally or primarily an abstract idea fashioned by philosophers and other theoreticians and then applied in practice. It is an expedient idea worked out by kings and other rulers, and their representatives and agents, in response to the novel circumstances of sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Europe. The political arrangements and legal practices of sovereignty came first, the academic theories later." (Preface xi • *Sovereignty Evolution of an Idea* • Copyright © Robert Jackson 2007 • First published in 2007 by Polity Press, Cambridge CB2 1UR, UK • ISBN-13: 978-07456-2338-2) Sovereignty is a distinctive configuration of state authority. "By 'state' I refer to the conventional meaning: a defined and delimited territory, with a permanent population, under the authority of a government. A 'state' could be a colonial state in an empire or a 'state' of the United States. Neither of those states, however, are 'sovereign' states. Governmental supremacy and independence is that distinctive configuration of state authority that we refer to as 'sovereignty' -." (Page 6 • Copyright © Robert Jackson)​​
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty*   ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.  Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of supreme authority within a State.​*SOURCE*:  *Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law,* Page 563, Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> There is no dependent connection wherein "individual sovereignty" is required or a prerequisite for "state sovereignty." It is totally dependent on domestic and the type of government.
> 
> Do you have enough information? •  Or • Do you have a follow-on topic?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What part of all that disagrees with my statement?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* There is no dependent connection wherein "individual sovereignty" is required or a prerequisite for "state sovereignty." It is totally dependent on domestic and the type of government. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has "state sovereignty" that is NOT applied by "sovereign nationals." The sovereignty is applied by the Royal Family.



P F Tinmore said:


> What part of all that disagrees with my statement?


*(COMMENT)*

Nothing in your statement is correct.  Absolutely nothing.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Lastamender




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* There is no dependent connection wherein "individual sovereignty" is required or a prerequisite for "state sovereignty." It is totally dependent on domestic and the type of government. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has "state sovereignty" that is NOT applied by "sovereign nationals." The sovereignty is applied by the Royal Family.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 461433
> What part of all that disagrees with my statement?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Nothing in your statement is correct.  Absolutely nothing.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the nationals in a defined territory are not the sovereigns of that territory?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The terms "individual sovereignty" and "state sovereignty" are similar concepts but not the same thing.



RoccoR said:


> Nothing in your statement is correct.  Absolutely nothing.





P F Tinmore said:


> Are you saying that the nationals in a defined territory are not the sovereigns of that territory?


*(COMMENT)*

Individual sovereignty is about civil emancipation.  That is personal ownership (sometimes called self-ownership) (I am my own man, not a slave.  I am an adult not subordinate to my parents.)  Sometimes, a "juvenile" (under the age of 18) needs to justify to a court why they should be determined sovereign.  There are different applications to the term "sovereignty.  From Black's Law Dictionary® • Ninth Edition:

*sovereign,* n. (Be) 1. A person, body, or state vested with​independent and supreme authority. 2. The ruler of an​independent state. - Also spelled sovran. See SOVEREIGNTY.​​*sovereign equality.* Int'l Jaw. The principle that nations​have the right to enjoy territorial integrity and political​independence, free from intervention by other nations, .​• The United Nations "is based on the principle of the​sovereign equality of all its Members." UN Charter art.​2, ~ 1. [Cases: International Law C::; 10.45(1).]​​*sovereign people.* (17c) The political body consisting of​the collective number of citizens and qualified electors​who possess the powers of sovereignty and exercise​them through their chosen representatives.​​*sovereign state.* (17c) 1. A state that possesses an independent​existence, being complete in itself, without​being merely part of a larger whole to whose government​it is subject. 2. A political community whose​members are bound together by the tie of common​subjection to some central authority, whose commands​those members must obey. Also termed independent​state. Cf. client state, nonsovereign state under STATE.​[Cases: International Law ~3.]​​_"The essence of statehood is sovereignty. the principle that_​_each nation answers only to its own domestic order and is_​_not accountable to a larger international community, save_​_only to the extent it has consented to do so. Sovereign_​_states are thus conceived as hermetically sealed units,_​_atoms that spin around an international orbit, sometimes_​_colliding, sometimes cooperating, but always separate and_​_apart." David j. Bederman, International Law Frameworks_​_50 (2001)_​
To answer your question more specifically, to be "sovereigns of that territory" - as you can glean from above must be - " A political community whose members are bound together by the tie of common subjection to some _*central authority, whose commands those members must obey*_.  But that is unique to a specific government.  The US Congress is a central authority that can create Federal Law that must be obeyed.  I am sovereign only in the sense that I may cast my ballot for a representative.  Neither I nor the representative can, individually, dictate law that "must be obeyed."  However, the HM the King of Saudi Arabia can create law and can commute sentences by a Saudi Court.  HM holds the power of life and death.  Why!  Because HE IS a Sovereign over the land.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R

Attribution Note:
"BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY" is a registered trademark of Thomson Reuters.
Registered in U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
COPYRIGHT © 1891.1910.1933.1951.1957.1968.1979.1990 WEST PUBUSHING CO.
© West. a Thomson business. 1999. 2004
© 2009 Thomson Reuters


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* The terms "individual sovereignty" and "state sovereignty" are similar concepts but not the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in your statement is correct.  Absolutely nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that the nationals in a defined territory are not the sovereigns of that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Individual sovereignty is about civil emancipation.  That is personal ownership (sometimes called self-ownership) (I am my own man, not a slave.  I am an adult not subordinate to my parents.)  Sometimes, a "juvenile" (under the age of 18) needs to justify to a court why they should be determined sovereign.  There are different applications to the term "sovereignty.  From Black's Law Dictionary® • Ninth Edition:
> 
> *sovereign,* n. (Be) 1. A person, body, or state vested with​independent and supreme authority. 2. The ruler of an​independent state. - Also spelled sovran. See SOVEREIGNTY.​​*sovereign equality.* Int'l Jaw. The principle that nations​have the right to enjoy territorial integrity and political​independence, free from intervention by other nations, .​• The United Nations "is based on the principle of the​sovereign equality of all its Members." UN Charter art.​2, ~ 1. [Cases: International Law C::; 10.45(1).]​​*sovereign people.* (17c) The political body consisting of​the collective number of citizens and qualified electors​who possess the powers of sovereignty and exercise​them through their chosen representatives.​​*sovereign state.* (17c) 1. A state that possesses an independent​existence, being complete in itself, without​being merely part of a larger whole to whose government​it is subject. 2. A political community whose​members are bound together by the tie of common​subjection to some central authority, whose commands​those members must obey. Also termed independent​state. Cf. client state, nonsovereign state under STATE.​[Cases: International Law ~3.]​​_"The essence of statehood is sovereignty. the principle that_​_each nation answers only to its own domestic order and is_​_not accountable to a larger international community, save_​_only to the extent it has consented to do so. Sovereign_​_states are thus conceived as hermetically sealed units,_​_atoms that spin around an international orbit, sometimes_​_colliding, sometimes cooperating, but always separate and_​_apart." David j. Bederman, International Law Frameworks_​_50 (2001)_​
> To answer your question more specifically, to be "sovereigns of that territory" - as you can glean from above must be - " A political community whose members are bound together by the tie of common subjection to some _*central authority, whose commands those members must obey*_.  But that is unique to a specific government.  The US Congress is a central authority that can create Federal Law that must be obeyed.  I am sovereign only in the sense that I may cast my ballot for a representative.  Neither I nor the representative can, individually, dictate law that "must be obeyed."  However, the HM the King of Saudi Arabia can create law and can commute sentences by a Saudi Court.  HM holds the power of life and death.  Why!  Because HE IS a Sovereign over the land.
> 
> I hope this clarifies things for you.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Attribution Note:
> "BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY" is a registered trademark of Thomson Reuters.
> Registered in U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
> COPYRIGHT © 1891.1910.1933.1951.1957.1968.1979.1990 WEST PUBUSHING CO.
> © West. a Thomson business. 1999. 2004
> © 2009 Thomson Reuters
Click to expand...

These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
1) The right to self determination without external interference.
2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
3) The right to territorial integrity.​None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels. The is the concept of "equality." 



P F Tinmore said:


> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.​2) The right to independence and sovereignty.​3) The right to territorial integrity.​None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.


*(COMMENT)*

As you point out, these inalienable Rights require a defined territory.  It is only reasonable to assume that the defined territory is in question:
​


  In December 2012, "Palestine was *NOT identified as a State, or a country* nor could its authorities be identified as a government.

If I am wrong, I am in good company.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.


Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> As you point out, these inalienable Rights require a defined territory. It is only reasonable to assume that the defined territory is in question:


Indeed, you have been dancing around that question for years.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel _(a very positive outcome)_ and the development _(a less successful outcome) _of the surrounding Arab-related nations
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding countries have suffered under hostile foreign intervention. Palestine has suffered the most under hostile foreign intervention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not clear that Arab-Moslem wars of aggression aimed at Israel would describe ''wealth and power shoveled in its direction''.
> 
> Maybe if you wrote a coherent comment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, since you know so little about Israel.
> 
> From the Rothschilds to little blue boxes, tax deductible "charity" donations, foreign aid, sweetheart corporate deals. Vetoes against everything Israel in the UN. After Israel kicked out the Palestinians stealing their land and everything else they wanted they went and robbed the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ''stolen Pally land" slogan is a total hoot.
> 
> The following question has been posed to you more times than anyone can count with no response, but here goes; what sovereign Pally land was stolen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> That information is all over the place. By 1947, the Jews had only bought 5-7% of Palestine. By 1948 they controlled 78%. How did that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By vesting sovereignty with the Jewish nation in international law.
> What you're conflating here is personal ownership with national sovereignty.
> Till this day the Arabs make all sorts of threats and accusations referring to their supposed Ottoman deeds, but for some reason, they never dare to present them to make a precedent.
> 
> Why are Arabs afraid of revealing the Ottoman archive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the question is addressed directly,
> you just don't like the answer, but neither can refute.
> 
> So are you intentionally conflating personal ownership with national sovereignty,
> or you're that stupid and just repeating the stupid things without understanding them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question. Sovereignty can only be be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, but does that refute what I say?
> I've answered yours, didn't see you answer mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of my response do you not understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I understand now perfectly - because you can't defend any of the nonesense you mindlessly repeat, or address the followup questions, everyone else is stupid, not you.
> 
> See, It takes me just 2 posts before gaslighting
> becomes a BDS-hole's last line of defense.
> 
> If you believe facts are on your side,
> why do all your arguments end with mere accusations,
> but you can't actually address anything or string an original thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still have not addressed the application of sovereignty.
Click to expand...


I have, you just don't accept what I say,
or make any clear counter argument.

Making general statements without explaining
how they actually support your claims is a useless exercise.

Can you as an individual actually make a coherent argument,
that is not limited to a meaningless list of populist catchphrases?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...






__





						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				




Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?

On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?


International law.

I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
Click to expand...

And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.

What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.


No I don't.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
Click to expand...


Let's see...
you've posted this,
does it apply to Jews "without exception"?



P F Tinmore said:


> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You are missing the point.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
Click to expand...


See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.

So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,


BLUF:  There is absolutely NO Internation Law that denies Israel the same rights as the Palestinian.



			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.





rylah said:


> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?





P F Tinmore said:


> International law.
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.


*(COMMENT)*

Everyone, in international law, is equal under the law; it is a Rule of Law.



			
				The United Nations and the Rule of Law said:
			
		

> *What is the Rule of Law*
> For the United Nations (UN) system, the rule of law is a principle of governance in which all persons, institutions and entities, public and private, including the State itself, are accountable to laws that are publicly promulgated, equally enforced and independently adjudicated, and which are consistent with international human rights norms and standards. It requires measures to ensure adherence to the principles of supremacy of the law, *equality before the law*, accountability to the law, fairness in the application of the law, separation of powers, participation in decision-making, legal certainty, avoidance of arbitrariness, and procedural and legal transparency.
> *SOURCE*:  _Rule of Law Unit, Executive Office of the Secretary-General_



And another thing.  The establishment of governance over the West Bank is in question.  In August 1988, the established sovereign authority abandoned the territory and by default, Israel became *the de facto governing authority* over the entirety of the West Bank.  There was no other government making claim to the territory at that time.   Even the UN Trusteeship System was silent.  And the was NO fully formed _(or even partially formed)_ Palestinian government in existence.  The West Bank became a protectorate of Israel as the only remaining governing footprint in control.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

As a layman..

*BLUF:*   In my opinion, both the International Community and the International Justice System abandon Israel on the day Israel was founded.



P F Tinmore said:


> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.


*(COMMENT)*

The trust, confidence in their competence, and respect for the opinions of the International Courts dealing on behalf of a designated terrorist organization are slowly slipping away.

In the matter of Integrity, independence, and impartiality in regards to Israel v Palestine is an example of the ineffective and non-functional judiciary that is incapable of peaceful resolution of legal disputes in the Middle East.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
Click to expand...

You need to reread what I posted.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
Click to expand...


All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.

Wanna try another example?
Let's see, according to YOUR definition:



P F Tinmore said:


> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.



What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Although this was reported on Thursday, there has been no condemnation of the Palestinian Authority for not accepting free vaccines for thousands of its people. 

Which is exactly what critics of Israel have been insisting that Israel do for two months!

This shows yet again that there are very few people who are truly pro-Palestinian. The only, and I mean only, reason not to accept this offer is because it makes Israel look humane, and avoiding that is worth a few Palestinian lives. 

But what about the other side of the story. Was this a cynical way for Israel to use the vaccines to make a propaganda victory - to show photos of virtuous Jews vaccinating poor Palestinians and making Israel look good?

Well, no:



> After Israel’s initial proposal was refused, a second was reportedly made: that the vaccines be administered by Arab Israeli paramedics and not by Jewish ones, and that they be dressed in clothes that bear no markings of Israeli medical establishments.





> That offer was also turned down, the report said.


It is now a mantra. Palestinian lives don't matter unless Jews can be blamed. The Palestinian Authority would prefer its own people die than be indebted to Jews for saving their lives.

(full article online)









						Abbas reportedly refused to let Israel vaccinate thousands of Palestinians. Media silent.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
Click to expand...

Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.

"inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.

The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
Click to expand...


Hilarious.


----------



## Hollie

“National peoples”. 



*Top PA official Rajoub praises terrorist murderers as “national leaders,” “my brothers and colleagues in prison”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 25, 2021

*We will "lead according to heritage" from arch-terrorists
and “heroic prisoners” - “the fuel of this system”*

Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub is one of the people regularly mentioned as possible successor to 85-year-old PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas sometime in the not-too-distant future. On a regular basis Rajoub praises terrorist murderers as heroes, and recently praised specific arch-terrorists and murderers - responsible for dozens of killings – stating that the currently imprisoned terrorists are “heroic” and “the fuel of this system”:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
Click to expand...

So then._ The peoples_™ living in the defined territory of the Bible Belt are nationals of that territory?


----------



## Hollie

The entitled Arabs-Moslems are in a snit. 











						Palestinians condemn Israel’s move to send vaccines overseas
					

Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail’.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail’.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)



RoccoR said:


> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.





P F Tinmore said:


> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.


*(QUESTIONS)*
SO_*!*_

Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"

Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?

*(COMMENT)*

The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
* 



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the “Tinmore Rebuttal”: when called out on his bullshit and lies, he makes it seem like you didn’t properly read his post


----------



## San Souci

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a "Palistinian". There has never been a Kingdom of "Palistine". There has never been a free State or Republic called Palistine. Through an error in Historical FACTS ,the Brittish called Judea "Palistine". It was the JEWS who were referred to as "Palistinians" from WW1 till 1948. The Myth was expunged after 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTIONS)*
> SO_*!*_
> 
> Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"
> 
> Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Reread my post.

"inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.​
Which part(s) are incorrect and why?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTIONS)*
> SO_*!*_
> 
> Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"
> 
> Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reread my post.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.​
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
Click to expand...

Why didn’t you read the earlier response?


----------



## Hollie

OK. And the point being?










						Israel Gives Vaccine to Far-Off Allies, as Palestinians Wait (Published 2021)
					

The donations will go to nations like the Czech Republic and Honduras that pledged to move diplomats to Jerusalem. Critics say Israel has an obligation to inoculate Palestinians under its occupation.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTIONS)*
> SO_*!*_
> 
> Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"
> 
> Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reread my post.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.​
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn’t you read the earlier response?
Click to expand...

I did. Which part of my post was incorrect?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTIONS)*
> SO_*!*_
> 
> Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"
> 
> Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reread my post.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.​
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn’t you read the earlier response?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. Which part of my post was incorrect?
Click to expand...

What didn’t you understand in the earlier response?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTIONS)*
> SO_*!*_
> 
> Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"
> 
> Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reread my post.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.​
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn’t you read the earlier response?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. Which part of my post was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What didn’t you understand in the earlier response?
Click to expand...

All deflection aside, I found little relevance in the previous posts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* You just kill me.



P F Tinmore said:


> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?


*(POINT of WHAT is INCORRECT)*
"inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of *defined territories*.
[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

Theoretically → "Inalienable Rights" are the same for everyone, no matter where you are standing or your origin.  A defined territory has nothing to do with it.  WHY? _* (RHETORICAL)*_  Because any territory can be politically redefined.

The Mandate for Palestine was within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory selected by the said Principal Allied Powers.  Previous to the Mandatory Power selected boundaries, the territory in question was subject to Ottoman boundaries.

"Inalienable Rights" have nothing what-so-ever to do with how the ground on which the people are standing is defined.  But, the concept of what "Inalienable Rights" are, is NOT universally accepted.  The "Inalienable Rights" of Tibetans is not the same as that of Crimeans, which are still different again from those recognized in Iran. 

And before you go off half-cocked, let me remind you that the *Universal Declaration of Human Rights *(UDHR) is NOT law. The various conventions _(almost 2 dozen categories of them)_ on man-made *Universal Human Rights Instruments* are quite lengthy.

The list of Constitutional "Inalienable Rights" is rather short and sweet:  “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  The concept is a bit different.  So, you are talking about something that is as tangible as the whisps of air.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You just kill me.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
> 
> 
> 
> *(POINT of WHAT is INCORRECT)*
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of *defined territories*.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Theoretically → "Inalienable Rights" are the same for everyone, no matter where you are standing or your origin.  A defined territory has nothing to do with it.  WHY? _* (RHETORICAL)*_  Because any territory can be politically redefined.

The Mandate for Palestine was within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory selected by the said Principal Allied Powers.  Previous to the Mandatory Power selected boundaries, the territory in question was subject to Ottoman boundaries.

"Inalienable Rights" have nothing what-so-ever to do with how the ground on which the people are standing is defined.  But, the concept of what "Inalienable Rights" are, is NOT universally accepted.  The "Inalienable Rights" of Tibetans is not the same as that of Crimeans, which are still different again from those recognized in Iran. 

And before you go off half-cocked, let me remind you that the *Universal Declaration of Human Rights *(UDHR) is NOT law. The various conventions _(almost 2 dozen categories of them)_ on man-made *Universal Human Rights Instruments* are quite lengthy.

The list of Constitutional "Inalienable Rights" is rather short and sweet:  “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  The concept is a bit different.  So, you are talking about something that is as tangible as the whisps of air.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R
[/QUOTE]
The rights I listed are territorial.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I think even I can understand what you are saying. But as a sidebar issue: I'm wondering, where you derived your definition that included a "defined territory" as a component of the term "peoples." (*Persons, People, or Peoples—When To Use Each*)
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTIONS)*
> SO_*!*_
> 
> Do the Israelis have these "inalienable rights" that are the "rights" granted "to all peoples?"
> 
> Do one "people" _(say the Arab Palestinians)_ have_ (superior)_ rights that nullify or impair the recognition of the rights of any other people _(say the Israelis)_? Can the rights of the Arab Palestinians take preference over the rights of the Israelis and subordinate the rights of the Israelis?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The arguments of the Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinians often seem to be contrived to suit the political agenda and objectives of the belligerents in the conflict.  These contrived notions are assembled to support and justify the continued armed _(purposely unpeaceful) _Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  As our friend "Hollie" points out in _*Posting #18754*_: *Palestinian Authority foreign minister denounces Israel sending vaccines to foreign allies as ‘political blackmail*’. This is but one simple example of how the Hostile Arab Palestinian are supporting leadership that has no true interest in the people.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reread my post.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.​
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why didn’t you read the earlier response?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. Which part of my post was incorrect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What didn’t you understand in the earlier response?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All deflection aside, I found little relevance in the previous posts.
Click to expand...

Why put aside your deflections?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The rights I listed are territorial.



Along with the Treaty of Lausanne inventing your imagined “country of Pal’istan” and your imagined “new states” (you never identified those “new states”, BTW), when was there ever a “_*Universal Declaration of Territorial Rights”*_?

Are you going to retroactively apply that particular Declaration in favor of the Arabs-Moslems?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek **slams phony impeachment "soap opera"*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC: * OFF-TOPIC*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* While this is about a US Domestic Matter _(ie not about Palestine or Palestinians) _it is actually an interesting podcast _(Red Lines with Anya Parampil and Rania Khalek of Soapbox)_ worth listening to.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Rania Khalek **slams phony impeachment "soap opera"*


*(COMMENT)*

This is Off-Topic, but a bit different from what our friend (P F Tinmore) usually puts up.

Remembering, of course, that the podcast called The _*Gray Zone*_, • _*Soap Box*_, • and _*Red Line*_ are allied as 21st Century Commentators. 

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
Click to expand...


As usual, you've got it all backwards,
however it's quiet a spectacle to see how a simple question about Arafat,
triggers you to launch into theorizing new semantics as _"proof Palestinians are a people"_...

But none of that matters because you will immediately defy this criteria anyway,
as you do with all laws, real and those you make up once seeing they benefit Israel.

So let's go back to my question about Arafat,
and see how your theory of "rights of defined territories"
can be used to justify an Egyptian officer's claim to sovereignty in Levant,
prove that the people he's representing as 'Palestinians' are of that territory unit,
or that those inalienable rights depend on the actual presence in that "defined territory"?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You just kill me.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which part(s) are incorrect and why?
> 
> 
> 
> *(POINT of WHAT is INCORRECT)*
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of *defined territories*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Theoretically → "Inalienable Rights" are the same for everyone, no matter where you are standing or your origin.  A defined territory has nothing to do with it.  WHY? _* (RHETORICAL)*_  Because any territory can be politically redefined.
> 
> The Mandate for Palestine was within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory selected by the said Principal Allied Powers.  Previous to the Mandatory Power selected boundaries, the territory in question was subject to Ottoman boundaries.
> 
> "Inalienable Rights" have nothing what-so-ever to do with how the ground on which the people are standing is defined.  But, the concept of what "Inalienable Rights" are, is NOT universally accepted.  The "Inalienable Rights" of Tibetans is not the same as that of Crimeans, which are still different again from those recognized in Iran.
> 
> And before you go off half-cocked, let me remind you that the *Universal Declaration of Human Rights *(UDHR) is NOT law. The various conventions _(almost 2 dozen categories of them)_ on man-made *Universal Human Rights Instruments* are quite lengthy.
> 
> The list of Constitutional "Inalienable Rights" is rather short and sweet:  “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  The concept is a bit different.  So, you are talking about something that is as tangible as the whisps of air.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The rights I listed are territorial.
[/QUOTE]
Have you ever posted anything in the Israel Palestine section that is factual ? Every time you post something , it is proven to be wrong by another poster. I mean, if you posted one lie here, one lie there, it would be SOMEWHAT understandable. But every post you make is false, and proven to be so.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you've got it all backwards,
> however it's quiet a spectacle to see how a simple question about Arafat,
> triggers you to launch into theorizing new semantics as _"proof Palestinians are a people"_...
> 
> But none of that matters because you will immediately defy this criteria anyway,
> as you do with all laws, real and those you make up once seeing they benefit Israel.
> 
> So let's go back to my question about Arafat,
> and see how your theory of "rights of defined territories"
> can be used to justify an Egyptian officer's claim to sovereignty in Levant,
> prove that the people he's representing as 'Palestinians' are of that territory unit,
> or that those inalienable rights depend on the actual presence in that "defined territory"?
Click to expand...

Arafat was a Palestinian.

The rights I posted are all territorial, They are national rights.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Arafat was a Palestinian.



You misspelled Egyptian.


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## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Self-determination has two aspects, internal and external. 

◈  Internal self-determination is the right of the people of a state to govern themselves without outside interference. ​​◈  External self-determination is the right of peoples to determine their own political status and to be free of alien domination, including formation of their own independent state.  _(However, independence is not the only possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination.)_​*SOURCE:*  ​


P F Tinmore said:


> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.





P F Tinmore said:


> The rights I posted are all territorial, They are national rights.


*(CRITICAL QUESTION)*

Oh Prey tell!  Just what "nation" are you associating these "rights" if they are _(as you claim)_ "national rights?"

*(COMMENT)*

In theory, that all external entities have the obligation under the UN Charter to respect the right of others to self-determination and to determine freely their political status and pursue their economic, social and cultural development...  All people have the rights as you have posted them, to include both the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians.

The Arab Palestinians have no to conduct an armed struggle or pursue hostile activities against the Israelis that have exercised their right of self-determination - to determine their political status - the right to independence, sovereignty - and → to protect their territorial integrity from the acts of aggression of interference _(from whatever quarter)_ in the pursuit of these goals and objectives initially outlined in a UN Recommendation.

The fact that military pressure from all sides was exerted upon the Israelis by the Arab League, causing a shift in the establishment and follow-on protective measures does not give the Arab Palestinians a foundation for claims.  The various external entities, from 1946 to the present time, that have worked tirelessly to interrupt the rights of the Israelis has only served to backfire on the Arab Palestinians today.  The Arab Palestinians are the proponent agency for the continued Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence, directed against the regional peace. * 



*
Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Self-determination has two aspects, internal and external.
> 
> ◈  Internal self-determination is the right of the people of a state to govern themselves without outside interference. ​​◈  External self-determination is the right of peoples to determine their own political status and to be free of alien domination, including formation of their own independent state.  _(However, independence is not the only possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination.)_​*SOURCE:* View attachment 462870 ​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rights I posted are all territorial, They are national rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(CRITICAL QUESTION)*
> 
> Oh Prey tell!  Just what "nation" are you associating these "rights" if they are _(as you claim)_ "national rights?"
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In theory, that all external entities have the obligation under the UN Charter to respect the right of others to self-determination and to determine freely their political status and pursue their economic, social and cultural development...  All people have the rights as you have posted them, to include both the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have no to conduct an armed struggle or pursue hostile activities against the Israelis that have exercised their right of self-determination - to determine their political status - the right to independence, sovereignty - and → to protect their territorial integrity from the acts of aggression of interference _(from whatever quarter)_ in the pursuit of these goals and objectives initially outlined in a UN Recommendation.
> 
> The fact that military pressure from all sides was exerted upon the Israelis by the Arab League, causing a shift in the establishment and follow-on protective measures does not give the Arab Palestinians a foundation for claims.  The various external entities, from 1946 to the present time, that have worked tirelessly to interrupt the rights of the Israelis has only served to backfire on the Arab Palestinians today.  The Arab Palestinians are the proponent agency for the continued Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence, directed against the regional peace. *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*BLUF:* Self-determination has two aspects, internal and external.

◈  Internal self-determination is the right of the people of a state to govern themselves without outside interference.

◈  External self-determination is the right of peoples to determine their own political status and to be free of alien domination, including formation of their own independent state.  _(However, independence is not the only possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination.)_
*SOURCE:* View attachment 462870

Israel is outside interference and alien domination,

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples stilI under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;​​18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples stilI under  colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;​​21. Strongly condemns the expansionist activities of Israel in the Middle East and the continual bombing of Palestinian civilians, which constitute a  serious obstacle to the realization of the self determination and independence of the Palestinian people;​​

			A/RES/37/43


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## Mindful

On a Spring day in 2018 during the March of Return riots, Palestinians at the Gaza border flew a swastika-emblazoned kite carrying a Molotov cocktail into Israel. From the black smoke of burning tires arose another swastika, only this time interposed between two Palestinian flags. Was it a mere coincidence that this also occurred on Adolf Hitler’s birthday?

The genocidal imagery that accompanied the rioters in Gaza has a sordid history that many anti-Zionist activists conveniently forget and some Palestinians embrace entirely.

The Nazis murdered 6,000,000 Jews and sought to destroy any trace that Jewish life had ever existed; yet it’s a common practice for anti-Zionists to liken Israel to the Nazis. Libels of this sort are quite common on college campuses.

Last June, for example, Florida State University (FSU) students discovered that the school’s student senate president, Ahmad Daraldik, had created a virulently antisemitic website to explain his (incorrect) argument that “the Holocaust never ended, it just moved to Palestine.” Unsurprisingly, the FSU chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine’s subsequent petition defending Daraldik completely ignored this appalling hatred.









						The Palestinians Compare Israel to the Nazis, But They Were the Real Collaborators With Hitler
					

The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, meets with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Photo: German Federal Archives via Wikimedia Commons. …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you've got it all backwards,
> however it's quiet a spectacle to see how a simple question about Arafat,
> triggers you to launch into theorizing new semantics as _"proof Palestinians are a people"_...
> 
> But none of that matters because you will immediately defy this criteria anyway,
> as you do with all laws, real and those you make up once seeing they benefit Israel.
> 
> So let's go back to my question about Arafat,
> and see how your theory of "rights of defined territories"
> can be used to justify an Egyptian officer's claim to sovereignty in Levant,
> prove that the people he's representing as 'Palestinians' are of that territory unit,
> or that those inalienable rights depend on the actual presence in that "defined territory"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arafat was a Palestinian.
> 
> The rights I posted are all territorial, They are national rights.
Click to expand...

Three swings. Three misses.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* When you say → the Denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights*! *Are we talking about domestic law?  (National Law 'vs' International Law).   *A/RES/37/43 of 3 December 1982 Universal Realization of the Right of Peoples to Self-Determination *is *NOT* Binding Law._* Article 2(7) of the UN Charter*_ prohibits the United Nations from intervening in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; with the *exception* of measures under *Chapter VII*.
Article 3 - *International Boundary** • *Peace is hereby established  between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israe*l* 
*Boundary is Delimited ANNEX 1(a)*​You have to follow the Jordan-Israel International Boundary closely.  THEN tell me where the State of Palestine is*?*


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is outside interference and alien domination,


*(COMMENT)*

Point #1:  You did not show the universally accepted definition of " inalienable national rights."  

Point #2:  *A/RES/37/43 of 3 December 1982 Universal Realization of the Right of Peoples to Self-**Determination was* adopted in late 1982. *No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the entry into force of the Statute*. (Non-retroactivity Article 24 • pg 14 • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court • _ratione personae_) 

Point #3:  Are you claiming that the Palestinian Government _(such that it is)_ Governments does not recognize the Right to Self-Determination and Independence of all peoples in Israel to establish Israel? * IF* so, *THEN* *I agree*_! _ ... The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) → from the very time of the USCOP recommendation adopted by the UN → has attempted to override the Independence through the Right of Self-Determination by the National Council for the Jewish State _(elected by the Jewish body in the former Mandate for Palestine)_.  So, yes I agree, the HoAP *is NOT* following the concept of self-determination.

Point #4:  The Arab Palestinians are NOT under Israeli colonial and foreign domination and Israeli subjugation.  The Arab Palestinians rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
​◈  Between 1918 and 1920, the Territory was under _*Occupied Enemy Territory Administration* (*OETA*)_.​​◈  Between 1920 and 1948, the Territory was under the Administration of the Mandate for Palestine.​​◈  Between 1949 and 1967, the territory, less the Gaza Strip, West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and Jordan, were under the effective control or sovereignty of members of the Arab League.​​◈  Between August 1988 and the present, the HM King of Jordan abandons all sovereignty over the West Bank territory; relinquishing it into the effective control of the Israelis.  No Arab Palestinian government established.​​Point #5:  A/RES/37/43 does not define the scope and nature of the alleged expansionist activity.

Point #6:  The State of Israel has not in the past and does not now, have a specific policy or program that directs attacks by bombardment which treats (as a single military objective) a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects are prohibited.  (*Rule 13. Area Bombardment*)
​◈  *Rule 23*. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​​◈  *Rule 24*. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​​◈ * Rule 97*. The use of human shields is prohibited.​​The HoAP, as a consistent tactic, uses densely populated areas and failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control, from rocket and mortar launch sites, as well a munitions storage, and other high-value targets, as a means to shield offensive operations against Israeli sovereign territory.​
It is my layman's opinion that the International Criminal Court (ICC), both the Prosecutor's Office and_* ICC-01/18-143 05 February 2021 | Pre-Trial Chamber I | Decision*_
that contributes _(by means of legal support and official endorsement)_ to the furtherance and encouragement of one or more offenses as set forth and elaborated within the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts by actively assisting _(__though malfeasance__)_ '*Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem*' (*Item 9, Group II, List of persons, groups, and entities, 8 January 2019, COUNCIL DECISION (CFSP) 2019/25*).

The ICC, with the aim of furthering the criminal activity or criminal purpose of the group, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of an offense as set forth 19 international legal instruments with emphasis on:

*◈  1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*​​*◈  1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​​*◈  1979 International Convention against the Taking of Hostages*​​*◈ ** 1949 Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention • Offenses Solely Intended to Harm the Occupying Power*​
The Prosecutor's Office and the Pre-Trial Chamber have brought induced a lack of confidence in the court, a level of politicization that *brings with it a measure of discredit and distrust in the court*.

*   Just One Man's Opinion,                    



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* When you say → the Denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights*! *Are we talking about domestic law?  (National Law 'vs' International Law).   *A/RES/37/43 of 3 December 1982 Universal Realization of the Right of Peoples to Self-Determination *is *NOT* Binding Law._* Article 2(7) of the UN Charter*_ prohibits the United Nations from intervening in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; with the *exception* of measures under *Chapter VII*.
> Article 3 - *International Boundary** • *Peace is hereby established  between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israe*l*
> *Boundary is Delimited ANNEX 1(a)*​You have to follow the Jordan-Israel International Boundary closely.  THEN tell me where the State of Palestine is*?*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is outside interference and alien domination,
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:  You did not show the universally accepted definition of " inalienable national rights."
> 
> Point #2:  *A/RES/37/43 of 3 December 1982 Universal Realization of the Right of Peoples to Self-**Determination was* adopted in late 1982. *No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the entry into force of the Statute*. (Non-retroactivity Article 24 • pg 14 • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court • _ratione personae_)
> 
> Point #3:  Are you claiming that the Palestinian Government _(such that it is)_ Governments does not recognize the Right to Self-Determination and Independence of all peoples in Israel to establish Israel? * IF* so, *THEN* *I agree*_! _ ... The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) → from the very time of the USCOP recommendation adopted by the UN → has attempted to override the Independence through the Right of Self-Determination by the National Council for the Jewish State _(elected by the Jewish body in the former Mandate for Palestine)_.  So, yes I agree, the HoAP *is NOT* following the concept of self-determination.
> 
> Point #4:  The Arab Palestinians are NOT under Israeli colonial and foreign domination and Israeli subjugation.  The Arab Palestinians rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> ​◈  Between 1918 and 1920, the Territory was under _*Occupied Enemy Territory Administration* (*OETA*)_.​​◈  Between 1920 and 1948, the Territory was under the Administration of the Mandate for Palestine.​​◈  Between 1949 and 1967, the territory, less the Gaza Strip, West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and Jordan, were under the effective control or sovereignty of members of the Arab League.​​◈  Between August 1988 and the present, the HM King of Jordan abandons all sovereignty over the West Bank territory; relinquishing it into the effective control of the Israelis.  No Arab Palestinian government established.​​Point #5:  A/RES/37/43 does not define the scope and nature of the alleged expansionist activity.
> 
> Point #6:  The State of Israel has not in the past and does not now, have a specific policy or program that directs attacks by bombardment which treats (as a single military objective) a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects are prohibited.  (*Rule 13. Area Bombardment*)
> ​◈  *Rule 23*. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​​◈  *Rule 24*. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​​◈ * Rule 97*. The use of human shields is prohibited.​​The HoAP, as a consistent tactic, uses densely populated areas and failed to remove civilian persons and objects under its control, from rocket and mortar launch sites, as well a munitions storage, and other high-value targets, as a means to shield offensive operations against Israeli sovereign territory.​
> It is my layman's opinion that the International Criminal Court (ICC), both the Prosecutor's Office and_* ICC-01/18-143 05 February 2021 | Pre-Trial Chamber I | Decision*_
> that contributes _(by means of legal support and official endorsement)_ to the furtherance and encouragement of one or more offenses as set forth and elaborated within the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts by actively assisting _(__though malfeasance__)_ '*Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem*' (*Item 9, Group II, List of persons, groups, and entities, 8 January 2019, COUNCIL DECISION (CFSP) 2019/25*).
> 
> The ICC, with the aim of furthering the criminal activity or criminal purpose of the group, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of an offense as set forth 19 international legal instruments with emphasis on:
> 
> *◈  1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*​​*◈  1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​​*◈  1979 International Convention against the Taking of Hostages*​​*◈ **1949 Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention • Offenses Solely Intended to Harm the Occupying Power*​
> The Prosecutor's Office and the Pre-Trial Chamber have brought induced a lack of confidence in the court, a level of politicization that *brings with it a measure of discredit and distrust in the court*.
> 
> *   Just One Man's Opinion,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Whose post are you responding to?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* I copied each quote and aspect of your posting to which I responded.



P F Tinmore said:


> Whose post are you responding to?


*(ANSWER)*

*Posting #18777*

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I copied each quote and aspect of your posting to which I responded.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose post are you responding to?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> *Posting #18777*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I can't find the relevance.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inalienable Rights of the Arab Palestinians DO NOT NEGATE the inalienable Rights of the Israels.
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> can see a very marked difference between the development of Israel (a very positive outcome) and the development (a less successful outcome) of the surrounding Arab-related nations   Israel has had wealth and power shoveled in its direction for over a hundred years while the surrounding...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> On what basis do you discriminate against Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said "_These rights are reserved for the people without exception_."?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> International law.
> 
> I know, Israel does not give a rat's behind about international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> What "international law" allows you to discriminate against Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you're the one here suggesting it shouldn't be upheld equally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> you've posted this,
> does it apply to Jews "without exception"?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the inalienable rights of all peoples inside their defined territory.
> 1) The right to self determination without external interference.
> 2) The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 3) The right to territorial integrity.
> None of these allow any foreign intervention. These rights are reserved for the people without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, once asked in  a straightforward manner,
> you can't even bring yourself to say that Jews have the same rights.
> That's exactly the point, the only consistent point in all you've been posting so far.
> 
> So why do you insist Jews are excluded from those "inalienable rights to all peoples"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to reread what I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I see are contradictions upon contradictions,
> and your inability to defend anything because of this inconsistency in your argument.
> 
> Wanna try another example?
> Let's see, according to YOUR definition:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is legitimate about Yasser Arafat's claim to sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it.
> 
> "inalienable rights to all peoples" Who are the Peoples? Peoples are the nationals of defined territories. The French are *a people* because they are the nationals of France. The British are *a people* because they are the nationals of Britain. The Mexicans are *a people* because they are the nationals of Mexico, and on. Collectively they are the peoples of the world. The French do not have inalienable rights in Britain because they are not the nationals of that territory.
> 
> The Palestinians are a people because they are the nationals of the defined territory of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual, you've got it all backwards,
> however it's quiet a spectacle to see how a simple question about Arafat,
> triggers you to launch into theorizing new semantics as _"proof Palestinians are a people"_...
> 
> But none of that matters because you will immediately defy this criteria anyway,
> as you do with all laws, real and those you make up once seeing they benefit Israel.
> 
> So let's go back to my question about Arafat,
> and see how your theory of "rights of defined territories"
> can be used to justify an Egyptian officer's claim to sovereignty in Levant,
> prove that the people he's representing as 'Palestinians' are of that territory unit,
> or that those inalienable rights depend on the actual presence in that "defined territory"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arafat was a Palestinian.
> 
> The rights I posted are all territorial, They are national rights.
Click to expand...


Sure, Arafat is as Palestinian as the rest of Egyptians and Saudis who happened to move or settle in the land and can't even pronounce its name properly. But not if we applied the definitions you use to exclude Jews who came from the same countries, whom in the same breath you'll then call "Arabs" when it suits the agenda, from those same national and territorial rights - just because they're Jews.

So let's recall what you claimed:



P F Tinmore said:


> Are you saying that the nationals in a defined territory are not the sovereigns of that territory?





P F Tinmore said:


> Sovereignty can only be applied by the sovereign nationals.




*Q.* If Arafat's claim to sovereignty was legitimate as you say,
then what does it say about your definition of *"national rights in a defined territory"?*


----------



## Hollie

Grooming the next generation of psychopaths. 



*PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners”









						PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners” | PMW Analysis
					

Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 1, 2021

Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.

Among the “heroic” terrorists are two murderers – the cousins Karim and Maher Younes who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980. Their pictures were displayed next to the olive tree saplings planted to glorify them:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Grooming the next generation of psychopaths.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 1, 2021
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> Among the “heroic” terrorists are two murderers – the cousins Karim and Maher Younes who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980. Their pictures were displayed next to the olive tree saplings planted to glorify them:


Oooooo, terrorists.  

You are a hoot.

BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grooming the next generation of psychopaths.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 1, 2021
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> Among the “heroic” terrorists are two murderers – the cousins Karim and Maher Younes who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980. Their pictures were displayed next to the olive tree saplings planted to glorify them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.
Click to expand...


Your terrorist buddies don't have a country.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  *Violations of International Humanitarian Law*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I'm NOT surprised at all • about your inability to understand the intent; even as often as it is discussed. I'm wondering if you might need a Guide Dog.



P F Tinmore said:


> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.


*(REFERENCEs)*

*Posting #18780*

*◈  1999 **International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*​​*◈  1997** International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​​*◈  1979** International Convention against the Taking of Hostages*​​*◈ ** 1949 **Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention • Offenses Solely Intended to Harm the Occupying Power*​
*(COMMENT)*

Point #1:  Arab Palestinians Protected who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, including an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, IS in violation of International Law and subject to prosecution.  YOU KNOW THIS.  Why do you consistently attempt to justify their hostile actions?

Point #2:  Criminal Acts directed against Israel, or any occupying forces or administration, with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities _(this includes the Israeli Police)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israelis _(whether it does or not)_ and to compel their government to take some action that furthers the _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_ criminal objective = Terrorism.


*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grooming the next generation of psychopaths.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 1, 2021
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> Among the “heroic” terrorists are two murderers – the cousins Karim and Maher Younes who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980. Their pictures were displayed next to the olive tree saplings planted to glorify them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.
Click to expand...

While you flail your Pom Poms in support of Islamic terrorists, I have to take your posts to mean that you see nothing wrong with the Pally's breeding generation after generation of dysfunctional Death Cultists. Your behavior also raises a host of questions about your motives. You cheer on the child abuse that defines the industry of Pally self destruction and its program of cradle to grave incitement to murder/suicide. Using the lure of dark-eyed virgins to entice teen boys toward acts of murder/suicide is a sickness. Such behaviors are drenched in psycho-sexual fantasies which you are apparently entirely comfortable with. It seems there is a shared psychopathy. 



In what country are pally terrorists fighting foreign troops?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *Violations of International Humanitarian Law*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I'm NOT surprised at all • about your inability to understand the intent; even as often as it is discussed. I'm wondering if you might need a Guide Dog.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> *Posting #18780*
> 
> *◈  1999 **International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*​​*◈  1997** International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​​*◈  1979** International Convention against the Taking of Hostages*​​*◈ **1949 **Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention • Offenses Solely Intended to Harm the Occupying Power*​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:  Arab Palestinians Protected who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, including an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, IS in violation of International Law and subject to prosecution.  YOU KNOW THIS.  Why do you consistently attempt to justify their hostile actions?
> 
> Point #2:  Criminal Acts directed against Israel, or any occupying forces or administration, with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities _(this includes the Israeli Police)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israelis _(whether it does or not)_ and to compel their government to take some action that furthers the _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_ criminal objective = Terrorism.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You always run under the false assumption that it is the Palestinians who are attacking Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  *Violations of International Humanitarian Law*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: This is simply an attempt to justify Arab Palestinian Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  Under contemporary law, which I have provided, _(absolutely)_ nothing justifies the past history and hard record for the criminal behaviors demonstrated by the Hostile Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> You always run under the false assumption that it is the Palestinians who are attacking Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Is it a false assumption?  Not in the last half-century.  The most recent iconic Arab-Palestinian character • *Ahed Tamimi* • is a great example.   She is a criminal and she is the apple that did not fall far from the tree.  Her father • Bassem Tamimi • is a well-known activist and protester of Area "C" settlement construction.  This is a case of criminality being transmitted generationally _(past from father to daughter)_.

If you watch the videos, you can see how Ahed Tamimi creates the confrontation and attempts to provoke both Israeli Police and soldiers.  As she initiates the confrontation, the camera is close behind; as if the event was staged for media consumption.  Ahed Tamimi is a cosmetic symbol of Hostile Arab Palestinians Resistance.



			
				 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) said:
			
		

> _*Article 19*_
> 1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.​2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.​3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:​(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;​(b) _*For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.*_​
> _*Article 20 *_
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​2. *Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.*​
> SOURCE:    •*  General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI)* of 16 December 1966, entry into force 23 March 1976,





*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *Violations of International Humanitarian Law*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I'm NOT surprised at all • about your inability to understand the intent; even as often as it is discussed. I'm wondering if you might need a Guide Dog.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> *Posting #18780*
> 
> *◈  1999 **International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*​​*◈  1997** International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​​*◈  1979** International Convention against the Taking of Hostages*​​*◈ **1949 **Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention • Offenses Solely Intended to Harm the Occupying Power*​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:  Arab Palestinians Protected who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, including an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, IS in violation of International Law and subject to prosecution.  YOU KNOW THIS.  Why do you consistently attempt to justify their hostile actions?
> 
> Point #2:  Criminal Acts directed against Israel, or any occupying forces or administration, with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities _(this includes the Israeli Police)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israelis _(whether it does or not)_ and to compel their government to take some action that furthers the _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_ criminal objective = Terrorism.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You always run under the false assumption that it is the Palestinians who are attacking Israel.
Click to expand...


If we take 2919 alone.









						Netanyahu Orders Continued Pounding In Gaza As 600 Rockets Fired Into Israel
					

Violence stretches into a third day amid mounting casualties and fatalities, with no immediate end in sight. Three Israeli men and nine Palestinians have been killed thus far.




					www.npr.org
				





Would you like the tally from the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza’istan in 2005?


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, folks. I tend to get a chill up my spine whenever I read about Islamist Sharia. I just know women are going to suffer. 

For some reason, there are those who call this behavior “extremist”. 


*PA attacks Hamas for prohibiting women’s travel alone, after recently making same ruling









						PA attacks Hamas for prohibiting women’s travel alone, after recently making same ruling | PMW Analysis
					

Same PA Supreme Shari’ah Judge has explained that in certain situations it is OK for husbands, sons, and brothers to beat women




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 3, 2021
*PA hypocrisy:*

*PA Grand Mufti prohibits women from traveling abroad alone without a male relative*
*PA Supreme Shari’ah Judge rejects Hamas’ prohibition on women traveling alone*
*Same PA Supreme Shari’ah Judge has explained that in certain situations it is OK for husbands, sons, and brothers to beat women*
When a Hamas affiliated Islamic institution recently issued a ruling that “travel is forbidden for an unmarried woman who has no children… without the permission of a guardian,” the PA’s Supreme Shari’ah Judge in Ramallah, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, stated that Palestinians are not obligated by this ruling.

However, this seems to be an attack on Hamas’ religious authority more than an attack on Hamas’ limitation of women’s rights. In fact, the top PA religious official issued a similar ruling just three months ago, denying women the right to travel abroad alone. When asked on official PA TV if a Palestinian woman may travel to Dubai on her own, the Grand Mufti Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, who was appointed by PA Chairman Abbas himself, answered that “there has to be an accompanying man from her family on the trip.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

There you go again.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *Violations of International Humanitarian Law*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I'm NOT surprised at all • about your inability to understand the intent; even as often as it is discussed. I'm wondering if you might need a Guide Dog.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> *Posting #18780*
> 
> *◈  1999 **International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*​​*◈  1997** International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​​*◈  1979** International Convention against the Taking of Hostages*​​*◈ **1949 **Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention • Offenses Solely Intended to Harm the Occupying Power*​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Point #1:  Arab Palestinians Protected who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, including an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, IS in violation of International Law and subject to prosecution.  YOU KNOW THIS.  Why do you consistently attempt to justify their hostile actions?
> 
> Point #2:  Criminal Acts directed against Israel, or any occupying forces or administration, with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities _(this includes the Israeli Police)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israelis _(whether it does or not)_ and to compel their government to take some action that furthers the _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_ criminal objective = Terrorism.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You always run under the false assumption that it is the Palestinians who are attacking Israel.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, Palestinians don’t attack Israel, they are “defending” themselves, right Tinmore?
Well then why can’t you provide specific examples of Palestinians defending themselves against Israel ? I suspect you will ignore this post, as usual..


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grooming the next generation of psychopaths.
> 
> 
> 
> *PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA plants trees for terrorists at a school to teach kids about “heroic prisoners” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 1, 2021
> 
> Trees for terrorists have been planted by the PA in a school in order to teach Palestinian girls about the “heroic prisoners.” The PA Ministry of Education and Fatah inaugurated a garden at the Zibda School for Girls southeast of Jenin, honoring 13 Israeli Arab terrorist prisoners.
> 
> Among the “heroic” terrorists are two murderers – the cousins Karim and Maher Younes who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980. Their pictures were displayed next to the olive tree saplings planted to glorify them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorists.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> BTW, attacking foreign troops in your country is not terrorism.
Click to expand...

I’m a little confused, what country are you talking about, and can you provide a map of it with its internationally recognized borders ?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There you go again.


There you are again.


----------



## Hollie

The competing Islamic terrorist franchises occupying the disputed territories seem to have a difference of opinion.

let’s see if these angry misfits can settle their differences with each other using a bit of gee-had conflict resolution techniques. 












						Palestinian Terrorists to Biden: Do Not Believe the Palestinian Leadership
					

Who exactly is the Palestinian Authority leadership lying to and why?




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The Palestinian Authority (PA) claims that Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups have renounced terrorism and accepted Israel’s right to exist.

Hamas and the Palestinian factions, however, saythis is not true and that they remain committed to “all forms of resistance” against Israel, including an “armed struggle.”

They are also stressing that they have not recognized Israel’s right to exist and are determinedto pursue the fight “until the liberation of all of Palestine,” from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The competing Islamic terrorist franchises occupying the disputed territories seem to have a difference of opinion.
> 
> let’s see if these angry misfits can settle their differences with each other using a bit of gee-had conflict resolution techniques.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Terrorists to Biden: Do Not Believe the Palestinian Leadership
> 
> 
> Who exactly is the Palestinian Authority leadership lying to and why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) claims that Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups have renounced terrorism and accepted Israel’s right to exist.
> 
> Hamas and the Palestinian factions, however, saythis is not true and that they remain committed to “all forms of resistance” against Israel, including an “armed struggle.”
> 
> They are also stressing that they have not recognized Israel’s right to exist and are determinedto pursue the fight “until the liberation of all of Palestine,” from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The competing Islamic terrorist franchises occupying the disputed territories seem to have a difference of opinion.
> 
> let’s see if these angry misfits can settle their differences with each other using a bit of gee-had conflict resolution techniques.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Terrorists to Biden: Do Not Believe the Palestinian Leadership
> 
> 
> Who exactly is the Palestinian Authority leadership lying to and why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) claims that Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups have renounced terrorism and accepted Israel’s right to exist.
> 
> Hamas and the Palestinian factions, however, saythis is not true and that they remain committed to “all forms of resistance” against Israel, including an “armed struggle.”
> 
> They are also stressing that they have not recognized Israel’s right to exist and are determinedto pursue the fight “until the liberation of all of Palestine,” from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.
Click to expand...


"Reclaim" what they can't even pronounce?


----------



## Hollie

From the river to the sea?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *National Rights?*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* I copied each quote and aspect of your posting to which I responded.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose post are you responding to?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> *Posting #18777*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry, I can't find the relevance.
Click to expand...

Wow. There’s a shocker.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> From the river to the sea?


Israel shooting unarmed civilians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Using Human Shields
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Rule 97 • The use of human shields is prohibited. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel shooting unarmed civilians.


*(COMMENT)*

When the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) use the massive presence of civilians to render an attack, by Arab Palestinians, immune from an active defense it is wrong.   HoAP has a responsibility and duty to afford the civilian population general protection against the dangers arising from the use as shields during HoAP acts of aggression and offensive military operations.

The deaths resulting from the attempt by HoAP use of civilians to render an act of HoAP Aggression immune from defensive fire constitutes a criminal offense.   Intentionally directing civilians into harm's way by using them to shield offensive attacks on Israeli defensive positions or territory.  The use of civilians to shield the launch of explosives and other lethal devices _(including incendiaries)_ is a criminal offense.  

The picture you included appears to depict the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ border operations during the March of Return.  This included attempts to breach the border defenses using civilians as a screen.  This mass of civilians was also used to shield to launch of incendiary devices to set fires in Israel.
* 



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the river to the sea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting unarmed civilians.
Click to expand...

You mean except for the armed civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the river to the sea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting unarmed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean except for the armed civilians.
Click to expand...

You mean Israel's lies about armed civilians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Using Human Shields
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Rule 97 • The use of human shields is prohibited.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting unarmed civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) use the massive presence of civilians to render an attack, by Arab Palestinians, immune from an active defense it is wrong.   HoAP has a responsibility and duty to afford the civilian population general protection against the dangers arising from the use as shields during HoAP acts of aggression and offensive military operations.
> 
> The deaths resulting from the attempt by HoAP use of civilians to render an act of HoAP Aggression immune from defensive fire constitutes a criminal offense.   Intentionally directing civilians into harm's way by using them to shield offensive attacks on Israeli defensive positions or territory.  The use of civilians to shield the launch of explosives and other lethal devices _(including incendiaries)_ is a criminal offense.
> 
> The picture you included appears to depict the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ border operations during the March of Return.  This included attempts to breach the border defenses using civilians as a screen.  This mass of civilians was also used to shield to launch of incendiary devices to set fires in Israel.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More Palestinian tropes.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

*Palestinian organization “Aman – Transparency Palestine” demands that PA PM Shtayyeh “forms an investigation committee to scrutinize the process of vaccine distribution, to hold to account those who violated the distribution principles, and to publish Covid19 vaccination plan.”*
* “Available information and observations indicate that many persons have been vaccinated, in breach of the prioritization criteria.”*
*“The [vaccination] process is conducted within a framework of cronyism and contacts, giving priority to personal interests at the expense of public interest.”*
(full article online)










						Palestinian organization criticizes PA for nepotistic vaccine distribution, saying “Favoritism kills” | PMW Analysis
					

“Available information and observations indicate that many persons have been vaccinated, in breach of the prioritization criteria.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the river to the sea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting unarmed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean except for the armed civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean Israel's lies about armed civilians?
Click to expand...

What lies?

Iink?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Once again, the Palestinian leaders show how tone deaf they are. The childish Palestinians want Denmark's cooperation with Israel to be conditioned on Denmark condemning Israel. Yeah, that makes sense.

The Danish want their citizens to be protected from pandemics.  To insult them for trying anything they can to accomplish that will not endear them to the Palestinian cause. 

Yet again, the Palestinian leaders are shooting themselves in the foot because they insist, like toddlers, on being the center of attention.

(full article online)










						PLO insults Denmark for cooperating with Israel on COVID-19 vaccines
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Hollie

There’s trouble in Islamo-paradise. The PA is being accused of not playing fair when it comes to vaccine distribution. Curious that anyone would expect the PA flunkies would have anything but a self-interest in theses matters. 



*Palestinian organization criticizes PA for nepotistic vaccine distribution, saying “Favoritism kills” *









						Palestinian organization criticizes PA for nepotistic vaccine distribution, saying “Favoritism kills” | PMW Analysis
					

“Available information and observations indicate that many persons have been vaccinated, in breach of the prioritization criteria.”




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 4, 2021

*Palestinian organization “Aman – Transparency Palestine” demands that PA PM Shtayyeh “forms an investigation committee to scrutinize the process of vaccine distribution, to hold to account those who violated the distribution principles, and to publish Covid19 vaccination plan.”*
* “Available information and observations indicate that many persons have been vaccinated, in breach of the prioritization criteria.”*
*“The [vaccination] process is conducted within a framework of cronyism and contacts, giving priority to personal interests at the expense of public interest.”*


----------



## Hollie

The Pally industry of paying misfits (the products of a misfit society), payed well in 2020. There’s a downside to being dead or in jail but hey, those dark-eyed virgins await. 











						Palestinian Authority paid terrorists over $150 million in 2020
					

The amount makes up 3.25% of the PA’s budget for last year, and is about NIS 5m. ($1.5m.) less than last year.




					m.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian Authority paid more than NIS 512 million ($157m.) in salaries to incarcerated or released terrorists in 2020, Palestinian Media Watch reported Monday.

The amount constituted 3.25% of the PA’s budget for last year, it said in a report. The PA paid about NIS 517m. to incarcerated or released terrorists in 2019, it said.


----------



## Hollie

Ain’t they cute when cartoon characters get their gee-had on?

Hamas TV Animated Video Depicts Destruction of Israeli Settlements


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had this!


----------



## Hollie

UNRWA to AHLC: the Agency is irreplaceable for Palestine Ref...
					

East Jerusalem/PNN/</p> <p>The Deputy Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees in the Near East (UN



					menafn.com
				




Shocker!

The UN agency dedicated to perpetuating the myth of pally refugees and which has a long history of fraud and mismanagement has declared itself irreplaceable.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Refugees
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* Most of the "real" Arab Palestinian refugees from the 1948 War _(for Israeli Independence)_ are deceased.



​


Hollie said:


> UNRWA to AHLC: the Agency is irreplaceable for Palestine Ref...
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem/PNN/</p> <p>The Deputy Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees in the Near East (UN
> 
> 
> 
> menafn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shocker!
> 
> The UN agency dedicated to perpetuating the myth of pally refugees and which has a long history of fraud and mismanagement has declared itself irreplaceable.



*(COMMENT)*

The reason that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is 'irreplaceable" → is because the UNRWA provides services to the persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948,  and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.  Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children,  are eligible to register for UNRWA services.

If you read the *Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions* (CERI) for refugees, you will that, in addition to the original refugee, the UNRWA provides services to descendants of Palestine refugee males (who are not actually refugees. 

By convention, a refugee is contained in Article 1 of the *Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*. When you drop-out the "descendants" aspect from the UNRWA criteria necessary to apply for services, you are left with probably 25-to-35 thousand people. Today's *Life expectancy at birth*:   
※ West Bank [2,949,246 people (July 2021 est.)]​◈  Total Population: 74.54 years ​    ✦   Male: 72.54 years ​     ✦  Female: 76.65 years (2009 est.)​※  Gaza Strip [1,957,062 people (July 2021 est.)]​◈  Total Population: 72.16 years ​    ✦   Male: 70.84 years​     ✦  Female: 73.54 years (2007 est.)​​The elapsed time from the Arab League invasion:  Approaching 73 years.

Within 3 years, all of the original 1948 refugees (worldwide) will have exceeded the normal life expectancy.

Of the original refugees from 1948 now living in the Gaza Strip - nearly all males and 95%+ females of the Gaza Strip are either within months of today's life expectancy or already exceed the life expectancy.  By this time next year, all of the original refugees from 1948 will have exceeded the normal life expectancy.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Refugees
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Most of the "real" Arab Palestinian refugees from the 1948 War _(for Israeli Independence)_ are deceased.
> 
> 
> View attachment 464995
> ​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNRWA to AHLC: the Agency is irreplaceable for Palestine Ref...
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem/PNN/</p> <p>The Deputy Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees in the Near East (UN
> 
> 
> 
> menafn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shocker!
> 
> The UN agency dedicated to perpetuating the myth of pally refugees and which has a long history of fraud and mismanagement has declared itself irreplaceable.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The reason that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is 'irreplaceable" → is because the UNRWA provides services to the persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948,  and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.  Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children,  are eligible to register for UNRWA services.
> 
> If you read the *Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions* (CERI) for refugees, you will that, in addition to the original refugee, the UNRWA provides services to descendants of Palestine refugee males (who are not actually refugees.
> 
> By convention, a refugee is contained in Article 1 of the *Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees*. When you drop-out the "descendants" aspect from the UNRWA criteria necessary to apply for services, you are left with probably 25-to-35 thousand people. Today's *Life expectancy at birth*:
> ※ West Bank [2,949,246 people (July 2021 est.)]​◈  Total Population: 74.54 years ​    ✦   Male: 72.54 years ​     ✦  Female: 76.65 years (2009 est.)​※  Gaza Strip [1,957,062 people (July 2021 est.)]​◈  Total Population: 72.16 years ​    ✦   Male: 70.84 years​     ✦  Female: 73.54 years (2007 est.)​​The elapsed time from the Arab League invasion:  Approaching 73 years.
> 
> Within 3 years, all of the original 1948 refugees (worldwide) will have exceeded the normal life expectancy.
> 
> Of the original refugees from 1948 now living in the Gaza Strip - nearly all males and 95%+ females of the Gaza Strip are either within months of today's life expectancy or already exceed the life expectancy.  By this time next year, all of the original refugees from 1948 will have exceeded the normal life expectancy.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israeli logic.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Awww, they’re so cute with the gee-had tirades.

It’s all so formula.

OK, tough guys. Photo-op is done. Cash your UNRWA welfare check and you’ll be called when you’re needed for the next Islamic terrorist fashion parade. 




*Fatah vows “our souls are presents for Palestine” - in video collage of men carrying assault rifles *

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 7, 2021

*Fatah at rally with weapons: All of Israel is “Palestine”*
*Fatah is “leading the national battle of liberation” - with kids bearing rifles and man firing RPG*
Abbas’ Fatah Movement regularly reminds Palestinians that it has not put down its weapons, reveres the rifle, and is committed to destroying Israel. In numerous statements, Fatah officials have expressed their pride in terror attacks and murders of Israelis, as exposed by Palestinian Media Watch.
Three videos posted recently by Fatah on different Facebook pages are examples of such promotion of violence. Photos of youth and adults marching with assault rifles are mixed with images of Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas while speakers refer to all of Israel as “Palestine” and promise Martyrdom for “Palestine”:

*Fatah vows Martyrdom for “Palestine”: “Our souls are presents for Palestine”*


----------



## Hollie

Arafat is dead. 

Long live Arafat.

It appears that elections (of the Arab-Moslem kind) are drawing some characters with familial histories that have a real cringe factor.


In blow to Fatah, Arafat’s nephew forms new list for Palestinian election 


In a move reflecting the deepening schism in the ruling Fatah faction, Nasser al-Qudwa, a nephew of former PLO chairman Yasser Arafat, has decided to run in the Palestinian general elections as part of a new list.

The 67-year-old Qudwa, a member of the Fatah Central Committee, previously served as Palestinian Authority foreign minister. In the past, his name was mentioned as a possible candidate to replace the 86-year-old PA President Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## Hollie

If killed by a Hamas "work accident", I wonder if they still get the dark-eyed virgins. 



3 Gaza Fishermen Killed by Explosion, Possibly by Hamas Rocket Test | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Aryeh Savir, Tazpit News Agency | 24 Adar 5781 – March 7, 2021 | JewishPress.com

Three fishermen sailing off the coast of the Gaza Strip on Sunday were killed by an explosion, possibly by a Hamas rocket test.


----------



## Hollie

Fatah females feelin' the gee-had.  



*PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance*









						PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance | PMW Translations
					

"Martyr Ayyat Al-Akhras"




					palwatch.org
				




Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
_





Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._

*Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).

Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*


----------



## Hollie

And so it goes in the diseased Islamic terrorist enclave where sociopathy Is learned behavior.





*Fatah: “Greatest heroic slaughter” was murder of 3 Israeli civilians in the Mothers’ Bus attack*

Fatah: “Greatest heroic slaughter” was murder of 3 Israeli civilians in the Mothers’ Bus attack | PMW Analysis (palwatch.org)

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 9, 2021
*“A squad of self-sacrificing fighters
planned to water the silent Negev Desert with its blood,
with the blood of these… heroes”*

*“The greatest heroic slaughter, which even the biggest states in the world would not have been brave [enough] to carry out or think [of doing]”*
*The Abu Jihad “miracle”*
On March 7, 1988, Palestinian terrorists from the Fatah Movement hijacked a bus transporting Israeli workers to the Negev Nuclear Research Center in Dimona. The terrorists murdered 3 passengers in the attack known as the Mothers' Bus attack because many of the passengers were working mothers. One of the murder victims was Victor Ram, a 39-year-old widowed father of three. The terrorists executed him first to show they were serious about killing hostages if Israel didn’t meet their demands for the release of all PLO prisoners from the Israeli jails. The terrorists also murdered Miriam Ben-Yair, 46, a mother of four, and Rina Shiratzky, 31, a mother of two, before being killed by Israeli soldiers who charged the bus.


----------



## Hollie

There's a new crisis in the Islamic terrorist enclave of Abbas'istan.

Gee. Has it been 24 hours already since the last one?












						New crisis as Palestine's Abbas accepts PM's resignation - Region - World
					

The Palestinian president finds himself again in a new-old crisis after his newly-installed PM Hamdallah resigned as Abbas now has 35 days to find a replacement




					english.ahram.org.eg
				





The Palestinian president finds himself again in a new-old crisis after his newly-installed PM Hamdallah resigned as Abbas now has 35 days to find a replacement


----------



## Hollie

Because they're disposable. 













						Why Are Palestinian Child Soldiers Ignored?
					

From the blog of Michael Starr at The Times of Israel




					blogs.timesofisrael.com
				




It’s a familiar story. Ahmed Mansara, 13, and his cousin Hassan Mansara, 15, went on a stabbing spree in Pisgat Ze’ev. They injured two civilians, one a boy their age, before they were stopped. Ahmed was injured and Hassan killed. It’s just one story among countless terrorist attacks, battles, and riots in which Palestinian children served on the frontline. It’s not hard to see the pattern. There is a system that has been constructed by Hamas, the PA, and other authoratative Palestinian organizations that creates and uses child soldiers. Yet despite this system of child militancy being so flagrant, human rights organizations refuse to acknowledge it. They don’t care that Palestinian children are being used as soldiers. They don’t care for the same reason that PFLP or Hamas uses them: They’re useful.


----------



## Hollie

It's as though the Pally Islamic terrorists are running a murder for hire enterprise alongside their welfare fraud enterprise. 


*Murderers of the Fogel family set to get 50% salary increase from the PA









						Murderers of the Fogel family set to get 50% salary increase from the PA | PMW Analysis
					

Having now almost completed 10 years in prison, the salary the Palestinian Authority pays to the murderers of the Fogel family is set to rise by 50%, from 4,000 shekels ($1,203) per month to 6,000 ($1,806) per month.




					palwatch.org
				



*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 11, 2021
Having now almost completed 10 years in prison, the salary the Palestinian Authority pays to the murderers of the Fogel family is set to rise by 50%, from 4,000 shekels ($1,203) per month to 6,000 ($1,806) per month.

On March 11, 2011, two Palestinian teenagers, aged 17 and 19, brutally murdered Ruti and Udi Fogel and three of their children, Yoav, Elad and baby Hadas.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

There's trouble in islamo-paradise. Ultimately, it looks like Emir Mahmoud has no sense of humor about others being competition for his Highness. 





			https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/palestinian-fatah-kicks-out-senior-member-ahead-of-elections/2021/03/11/6cfbe088-8250-11eb-be22-32d331d87530_story.html
		


RAMALLAH, West Bank — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party has stripped a senior official of his membership after he announced he would run on his own electoral list, in the latest sign of internal turmoil ahead of elections planned for later this year.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the BBC article makes some flawed assumptions. One of those assumptions is that the State of Israel has some presumed obligation toward providing healthcare commitments to the Pals. It is the Pallys who prioritize payments to the killers they provide for with monthly income. That's a choice they make. If healthcare is otherwise denied to the population, that is the responsibility (and failure) of the alleged Pally "government" to resolve. It's impossible to take the Pally's and the BBC seriously when they whine about the fact that the costs for supporting Islamic terrorists leaves no welfare money for healthcare.







__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				




Israel, which has the highest rate of Covid-19 vaccination per person in the world, has started vaccinating Palestinians who go to work there.

But what about vaccinations for other Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza - regarded as occupied territories by the international community?


----------



## Hollie

A debilitating illness that afflicts this particular Cult. 



PFLP Official Maryam Abu Daqqa Lauds Palestinian Female Terrorists Shadia Abu Ghazaleh, Leila Khaled, Dalal Al-Mughrabi During PA Ceremony On International Women's Day


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  International Women's Day
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* If they can't do any better than this, THEN it might be too late to assimilate them into normal society.



Hollie said:


> A debilitating illness that afflicts this particular Cult.
> PFLP Official Maryam Abu Daqqa Lauds Palestinian Female Terrorists Shadia Abu Ghazaleh, Leila Khaled, Dalal Al-Mughrabi During PA Ceremony On International Women's Day


*(COMMENT)*

This is so sad.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  International Women's Day
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* If they can't do any better than this, THEN it might be too late to assimilate them into normal society.



Hollie said:


> A debilitating illness that afflicts this particular Cult.
> PFLP Official Maryam Abu Daqqa Lauds Palestinian Female Terrorists Shadia Abu Ghazaleh, Leila Khaled, Dalal Al-Mughrabi During PA Ceremony On International Women's Day


*(COMMENT)*

This is so sad.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  International Women's Day
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* If they can't do any better than this, THEN it might be too late to assimilate them into normal society.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A debilitating illness that afflicts this particular Cult.
> PFLP Official Maryam Abu Daqqa Lauds Palestinian Female Terrorists Shadia Abu Ghazaleh, Leila Khaled, Dalal Al-Mughrabi During PA Ceremony On International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is so sad.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The glorification of mass murderers is a generational and institutional phenomenon in the Pally enclaves. The willingness of the first world to aid and abet this madness means it will continue.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Generational Antisocial Personality Disorder
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF:* You may very well be _(in fact most probably)_ correct.



Hollie said:


> The glorification of mass murderers is a generational and institutional phenomenon in the Pally enclaves. The willingness of the first world to aid and abet this madness means it will continue.


*(COMMENT)*
*Speaking Strictly as a Layman...*​There seems to be a valid association between the pervasive pattern of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) in the total disregard for life and the rights of others → that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood → and the specific repetitive and persistent pattern of behaviors that are characteristic more commonly found associated with the conduct of sociopaths and psychopaths. The progression leads to the obvious failure to conform with the respect to lawful behavior and the social norms/morals conducive the developing cultures.
​


			
				Hamas TV glorifies jihad said:
			
		

> A one-minute filler aired on Hamas-run al-Aqsa TV on August 29, 2020, depicts a group of Palestinian terrorists in jail, watching a news report on a (fictional) suicide bombing in Tel Aviv which has claimed 19 lives. The prisoners leap to their feet and cheer, before realizing that one of their group is crying. When an inmate asks him why, he reveals that he had wanted to be part of the suicide bombing operation. His fellow inmate assures him that Allah will reward him for being jailed as a terrorist.​*SOURCE*: *Jerusalem Post
> 
> 
> Arab Israeli Conflict News Article* •• By *DONNA RACHEL EDMUNDS* • SEPTEMBER 13, 2020​​


​What is really interesting about this → is that such open behaviors not only attract sociopaths and psychopaths but afford them a place to hide their psychotic disorder in the pool of sociopaths and psychopaths being groomed to the tone that:  "*Killing Israelis is NOT terror, it's Legitimate*."  In the case of the HoAP, these personalities appear to be found in much greater numbers than found elsewhere in the mainstream cultural populations of the world.  They are (probably) more likely to die prematurely by violent means _(suicide, accidents, homicides)_. because they believe that such murderess behaviors are normal (and even socially appreciated and rewarded). They may believe that such a demise will bring some gratification in the hereafter. As demonstrated by the televised HAMAS TV promotional clip _(cited supra)_, the HoAP sociopaths and psychopaths may blame the victims for being what they are (_they had it coming • they are only Jews)_.

How do you sift-out the sociopaths and psychopaths among the crowd in a mob frenzy? *(RHETORICAL)* It is the perfect camouflage. They need not show any remorse for the consequences of their barbarous acts because they are masked in the fevered excitement in a sea of mob mentality being told that "*Killing Israelis is NOT terror, it's Legitimate*."

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

The Pally hoped-for caliphate, the _Judenrein_ one from the river to the sea, took another setback in a long line of setbacks for Islamic terrorism. 










						Palestine slams Czech diplomatic office in Jerusalem
					

Prague's diplomatic office in Jerusalem 'blatant attack' on Palestinians, their rights, says Palestinian Foreign Ministry - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				






RAMALLAH, Palestine

Palestine on Saturday slammed the Czech Republic for opening on March 11 a diplomatic office in Jerusalem -- affiliated to its embassy in Tel Aviv.

It called the controversial step a clear violation of international law.

While stopping short of shifting the Czech Embassy to Jerusalem, the move received clear approval from Israel, with Israeli Foreign Minister Gabi Ashkenazi attending the opening along with Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Generational Antisocial Personality Disorder
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You may very well be _(in fact most probably)_ correct.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The glorification of mass murderers is a generational and institutional phenomenon in the Pally enclaves. The willingness of the first world to aid and abet this madness means it will continue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> *Speaking Strictly as a Layman...*​There seems to be a valid association between the pervasive pattern of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) in the total disregard for life and the rights of others → that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood → and the specific repetitive and persistent pattern of behaviors that are characteristic more commonly found associated with the conduct of sociopaths and psychopaths. The progression leads to the obvious failure to conform with the respect to lawful behavior and the social norms/morals conducive the developing cultures.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas TV glorifies jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one-minute filler aired on Hamas-run al-Aqsa TV on August 29, 2020, depicts a group of Palestinian terrorists in jail, watching a news report on a (fictional) suicide bombing in Tel Aviv which has claimed 19 lives. The prisoners leap to their feet and cheer, before realizing that one of their group is crying. When an inmate asks him why, he reveals that he had wanted to be part of the suicide bombing operation. His fellow inmate assures him that Allah will reward him for being jailed as a terrorist.​*SOURCE*: *Jerusalem Post
> 
> 
> Arab Israeli Conflict News Article* •• By *DONNA RACHEL EDMUNDS* • SEPTEMBER 13, 2020​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​What is really interesting about this → is that such open behaviors not only attract sociopaths and psychopaths but afford them a place to hide their psychotic disorder in the pool of sociopaths and psychopaths being groomed to the tone that:  "*Killing Israelis is NOT terror, it's Legitimate*."  In the case of the HoAP, these personalities appear to be found in much greater numbers than found elsewhere in the mainstream cultural populations of the world.  They are (probably) more likely to die prematurely by violent means _(suicide, accidents, homicides)_. because they believe that such murderess behaviors are normal (and even socially appreciated and rewarded). They may believe that such a demise will bring some gratification in the hereafter. As demonstrated by the televised HAMAS TV promotional clip _(cited supra)_, the HoAP sociopaths and psychopaths may blame the victims for being what they are (_they had it coming • they are only Jews)_.
> 
> How do you sift-out the sociopaths and psychopaths among the crowd in a mob frenzy? *(RHETORICAL)* It is the perfect camouflage. They need not show any remorse for the consequences of their barbarous acts because they are masked in the fevered excitement in a sea of mob mentality being told that "*Killing Israelis is NOT terror, it's Legitimate*."
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial project. How can they be "innocent civilians?"


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Generational Antisocial Personality Disorder
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You may very well be _(in fact most probably)_ correct.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The glorification of mass murderers is a generational and institutional phenomenon in the Pally enclaves. The willingness of the first world to aid and abet this madness means it will continue.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> *Speaking Strictly as a Layman...*​There seems to be a valid association between the pervasive pattern of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) in the total disregard for life and the rights of others → that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood → and the specific repetitive and persistent pattern of behaviors that are characteristic more commonly found associated with the conduct of sociopaths and psychopaths. The progression leads to the obvious failure to conform with the respect to lawful behavior and the social norms/morals conducive the developing cultures.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas TV glorifies jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one-minute filler aired on Hamas-run al-Aqsa TV on August 29, 2020, depicts a group of Palestinian terrorists in jail, watching a news report on a (fictional) suicide bombing in Tel Aviv which has claimed 19 lives. The prisoners leap to their feet and cheer, before realizing that one of their group is crying. When an inmate asks him why, he reveals that he had wanted to be part of the suicide bombing operation. His fellow inmate assures him that Allah will reward him for being jailed as a terrorist.​*SOURCE*: *Jerusalem Post
> 
> 
> Arab Israeli Conflict News Article* •• By *DONNA RACHEL EDMUNDS* • SEPTEMBER 13, 2020​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​What is really interesting about this → is that such open behaviors not only attract sociopaths and psychopaths but afford them a place to hide their psychotic disorder in the pool of sociopaths and psychopaths being groomed to the tone that:  "*Killing Israelis is NOT terror, it's Legitimate*."  In the case of the HoAP, these personalities appear to be found in much greater numbers than found elsewhere in the mainstream cultural populations of the world.  They are (probably) more likely to die prematurely by violent means _(suicide, accidents, homicides)_. because they believe that such murderess behaviors are normal (and even socially appreciated and rewarded). They may believe that such a demise will bring some gratification in the hereafter. As demonstrated by the televised HAMAS TV promotional clip _(cited supra)_, the HoAP sociopaths and psychopaths may blame the victims for being what they are (_they had it coming • they are only Jews)_.
> 
> How do you sift-out the sociopaths and psychopaths among the crowd in a mob frenzy? *(RHETORICAL)* It is the perfect camouflage. They need not show any remorse for the consequences of their barbarous acts because they are masked in the fevered excitement in a sea of mob mentality being told that "*Killing Israelis is NOT terror, it's Legitimate*."
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial project. How can they be "innocent civilians?"
Click to expand...

Your usual, silly slogans.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the state of affairs for both Egypt and Jordan is that they are resolved to dealing with whatever Islamic terrorist franchise may win Pally elections, if they happen at all. 











						In Jordan and Egypt, quiet qualms that Palestinian elections will boost Hamas
					

Neither Cairo nor Amman is convinced that the scheduled Palestinian elections will happen. But with Fatah divided, a Hamas win could ripple out in unwanted ways




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Both Jordan and Egypt have issued rote statements declaring their support for Palestinian elections, vowing to offer whatever necessary to help them come to pass. Both are fully aware that the Palestinian leadership has long lost popular legitimacy in the eyes of its public.

But both of the Palestinians’ key partners also have deep reservations about a vote that they believe could bring Hamas back into the Palestinian Authority political system, officials say. Both countries are at odds with Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood that opposes the regimes in Cairo and Amman, although they have learned to work with the terror group when they must.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Generational Antisocial Personality Disorder
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  You generally get this topic all screwed-up.  

​


			
				Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *colony*    The term ‘colony’ is one of municipal or constitutional rather than international law. As such, its exact significance may vary from municipal system to municipal system.  Thus, the British Interpretation Act 1889 excluded from the expression, not only any part of​the British Islands (which include the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man), but also British India. For historical reasons, the term has been eschewed in the United States’ constitutional law and practice. But the word, generally understood as connoting any non-metropolitan the territory of a State, is occasionally employed in instruments of international legal import; e.g., the provision of art. 1(2) of the Covenant of the League of Nations for the availability of membership to ‘any fully self-governing State, Dominion or Colony’, *General Assembly Res. 1514 (XV)* of 14 December 1960, styled a Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the Friendly Relations Declaration (*General Assembly Res. 2625* (XXV) of 24 October 1970 ), ‘The principle of equal rights and self-determination of which refers to colonialism. See also independence.​*SOURCE:*  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, 3d ed, Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. • JOHN P. GRANT and J. CRAIG BARKER, Pg 107​





P F Tinmore said:


> Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial project. How can they be "innocent civilians?"


*(COMMENT)*

Well, there are a couple of reasons we've gone over several times.  One of which is the Israeli Settlers are NOT in a colonial relationship with Israel.

​


			
				UN Special Committee on Decolonization or the "C-24 said:
			
		

> Since the birth of the United Nations, more than 80 former colonies comprising some 750 million people have gained independence. At present, 17 Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs) across the globe remain on the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, home to nearly 2 million people. Thus, the process of decolonization is not complete.​*SOURCE*:   *United Nations and Decolonization: Past to Present*​​


​
All seventeen (17) of the Non-Self-Governing Territories are listed in the Annex apply titled "*Non-Self-Governing Territories**.*" Additionally, the remaining five (5) "Administrative Powers are indicated in the same Annex.

You should take notice that:

◈  There are NO Non-Self-Governing Territories anywhere in the Middle East, including the disputed Palestinian territories.​◈  Israel is NOT listed as an Administrative Power for any territory in the world, including the Middle East.​
*




*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Generational Antisocial Personality Disorder
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  You generally get this topic all screwed-up.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *colony*    The term ‘colony’ is one of municipal or constitutional rather than international law. As such, its exact significance may vary from municipal system to municipal system.  Thus, the British Interpretation Act 1889 excluded from the expression, not only any part of​the British Islands (which include the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man), but also British India. For historical reasons, the term has been eschewed in the United States’ constitutional law and practice. But the word, generally understood as connoting any non-metropolitan the territory of a State, is occasionally employed in instruments of international legal import; e.g., the provision of art. 1(2) of the Covenant of the League of Nations for the availability of membership to ‘any fully self-governing State, Dominion or Colony’, *General Assembly Res. 1514 (XV)* of 14 December 1960, styled a Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the Friendly Relations Declaration (*General Assembly Res. 2625* (XXV) of 24 October 1970 ), ‘The principle of equal rights and self-determination of which refers to colonialism. See also independence.​*SOURCE:*  Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, 3d ed, Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. • JOHN P. GRANT and J. CRAIG BARKER, Pg 107​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial project. How can they be "innocent civilians?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there are a couple of reasons we've gone over several times.  One of which is the Israeli Settlers are NOT in a colonial relationship with Israel.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UN Special Committee on Decolonization or the "C-24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the birth of the United Nations, more than 80 former colonies comprising some 750 million people have gained independence. At present, 17 Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs) across the globe remain on the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, home to nearly 2 million people. Thus, the process of decolonization is not complete.​*SOURCE*:   *United Nations and Decolonization: Past to Present*​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> All seventeen (17) of the Non-Self-Governing Territories are listed in the Annex apply titled "*Non-Self-Governing Territories**.*" Additionally, the remaining five (5) "Administrative Powers are indicated in the same Annex.
> 
> You should take notice that:
> 
> ◈  There are NO Non-Self-Governing Territories anywhere in the Middle East, including the disputed Palestinian territories.​◈  Israel is NOT listed as an Administrative Power for any territory in the world, including the Middle East.​
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

When Britain handed the Mandate over to the UN in 1948, it stated that Palestinian was a non self governing entity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> When Britain handed the Mandate over to the UN in 1948, it stated that Palestinian was a non self governing entity.


By many standards, it still isn’t.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Status @ Hand-off
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *Once the British to UNPC was complete, several things happened very rapidly.



P F Tinmore said:


> When Britain handed the Mandate over to the UN in 1948, it stated that Palestinian was a non self governing entity.


*(COMMENT)*

The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.

The Arab League broke the Charter → crossed the international demarcations and began extraterritorial operations hostile to the newly formed State of Israel.

All the territory allocated for an Arab State, west of the Jordan River, became occupied trustee territory by members of the Arab League.  The Gaza Strip became an Egyptian Military Governorship.  The West Bank Area became Territory Occupied by the Jordanians and was annexed by Jordan in 1950.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​​*{∑}*

Once the Arab League initiated the Rouge agenda (by Egypt and Jordan) and began taking effective control of the territory (occupation) all bets were off concerning what should have happened.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

Just remember:

Israelis, of course, are_ "racists because they don't rape Arab women"_.
and Linda _"I'm from Brooklyn"_ Sarsour, is your No.1 US feminist

so much virtue signaling for one day...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.


If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Judgment on the National Council
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *Once the British Abandon the Field, everyone knew there was going to be a Conflict. It did not matter how or who interpreted the RECOMMENDATION and the thoroughness of the Israelis.
​_From the Madrid Invitation in 1991 to the introduction of the Oslo process in_​_1993 to the present, a negotiated settlement has remained the *dominant *__*leitmotiv*_​_*of peacemaking* between Israel and the Palestinian people._​................................................................................_Robert P. Barnidge, Jr._​................................................................................Taken From:  Self-Determination, Statehood, and the Law of Negotiation​................................................................................© Robert P. Barnidge, Jr. 2016 • Published in the UK by Hart Publishing Ltd​
I saw that phrase and thought:  So eloquent and yet so wrong (_dominant dominant)_.  But I read the book anyway.



RoccoR said:


> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.





P F Tinmore said:


> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.


*(COMMENT)*

You've been saying this for years.  So let's dust this off and get down to the *Nitty-Gritty*:

Just what "REQUIREMENT(s)" did the National Council not complete that would be an​"impediment" to the Israeli "Right to Self-Determination?"​​*Or put another way:*​
What clause is in the Recommendation, (clear and concisely) are you holding as​incomplete or omitted that would foreclose on self-determination?​
There is no doubt in my itty-bitty mind that sometimes, the most fervent and passionate pro-Arab Palestinian advocate has constructed their own "political reality" and "illogical concepts" that in defiance of all other presentations, they insist on hold as the truth and only way it can be.

So tell us what is behind your reality on this issue?  What is it that brings tension to your mental spring?

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
Click to expand...

"181 was never implemented".

Did you forget the above is one of your most oft cut and pasted slogans?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "181 was never implemented".
> 
> Did you forget the above is one of your most oft cut and pasted slogans?
Click to expand...

Indeed, but Israel mentioned it in its declaration of independence anyway to pretend to have some legitimacy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Judgment on the National Council
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *Once the British Abandon the Field, everyone knew there was going to be a Conflict. It did not matter how or who interpreted the RECOMMENDATION and the thoroughness of the Israelis.
> ​_From the Madrid Invitation in 1991 to the introduction of the Oslo process in_​_1993 to the present, a negotiated settlement has remained the *dominant *__*leitmotiv*_​_*of peacemaking* between Israel and the Palestinian people._​................................................................................_Robert P. Barnidge, Jr._​................................................................................Taken From:  Self-Determination, Statehood, and the Law of Negotiation​................................................................................© Robert P. Barnidge, Jr. 2016 • Published in the UK by Hart Publishing Ltd​
> I saw that phrase and thought:  So eloquent and yet so wrong (_dominant dominant)_.  But I read the book anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You've been saying this for years.  So let's dust this off and get down to the *Nitty-Gritty*:
> 
> Just what "REQUIREMENT(s)" did the National Council not complete that would be an​"impediment" to the Israeli "Right to Self-Determination?"​​*Or put another way:*​
> What clause is in the Recommendation, (clear and concisely) are you holding as​incomplete or omitted that would foreclose on self-determination?​
> There is no doubt in my itty-bitty mind that sometimes, the most fervent and passionate pro-Arab Palestinian advocate has constructed their own "political reality" and "illogical concepts" that in defiance of all other presentations, they insist on hold as the truth and only way it can be.
> 
> So tell us what is behind your reality on this issue?  What is it that brings tension to your mental spring?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get the idea that foreign colonial settlers have the right to self determination on top of the native population?

Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated? 

Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

For the first time in history; Hamas elected two female members of its political bureau in Gaza | Days Of Palestine
					

Days of Palestine - Gaza  In a press release, Hamas Movement said that in continuation of the internal elections of the Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Hamas Shura Council has conducted a meeting to elect




					daysofpalestine.ps
				





In a press release, Hamas Movement said that in continuation of the internal elections of the Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Hamas Shura Council has conducted a meeting to elect the member of the Hamas political bureau in Gaza.


They pointed out that for the first time in history, Hamas elected two female members of its political bureau in Gaza. The names of the new members are listed below:


1- Yahya Sinwar, Hamas’s chief in Gaza


2- Khalil al-Hayya, deputy chief of Hamas in Gaza


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "181 was never implemented".
> 
> Did you forget the above is one of your most oft cut and pasted slogans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but Israel mentioned it in its declaration of independence anyway to pretend to have some legitimacy.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The ability for self-determination.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> For the first time in history; Hamas elected two female members of its political bureau in Gaza | Days Of Palestine
> 
> 
> Days of Palestine - Gaza  In a press release, Hamas Movement said that in continuation of the internal elections of the Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Hamas Shura Council has conducted a meeting to elect
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daysofpalestine.ps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a press release, Hamas Movement said that in continuation of the internal elections of the Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Hamas Shura Council has conducted a meeting to elect the member of the Hamas political bureau in Gaza.
> 
> 
> They pointed out that for the first time in history, Hamas elected two female members of its political bureau in Gaza. The names of the new members are listed below:
> 
> 
> 1- Yahya Sinwar, Hamas’s chief in Gaza
> 
> 
> 2- Khalil al-Hayya, deputy chief of Hamas in Gaza


Indeed. Did Hamas announce the names of the minders they will report their movements to?

Indeed.








						Hamas court says women need guardian's approval to travel
					

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel, further restricting movement in and out of the territory that has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt since the militant group seized power...




					apnews.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Judgment on the National Council
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *Once the British Abandon the Field, everyone knew there was going to be a Conflict. It did not matter how or who interpreted the RECOMMENDATION and the thoroughness of the Israelis.
> ​_From the Madrid Invitation in 1991 to the introduction of the Oslo process in_​_1993 to the present, a negotiated settlement has remained the *dominant *__*leitmotiv*_​_*of peacemaking* between Israel and the Palestinian people._​................................................................................_Robert P. Barnidge, Jr._​................................................................................Taken From:  Self-Determination, Statehood, and the Law of Negotiation​................................................................................© Robert P. Barnidge, Jr. 2016 • Published in the UK by Hart Publishing Ltd​
> I saw that phrase and thought:  So eloquent and yet so wrong (_dominant dominant)_.  But I read the book anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You've been saying this for years.  So let's dust this off and get down to the *Nitty-Gritty*:
> 
> Just what "REQUIREMENT(s)" did the National Council not complete that would be an​"impediment" to the Israeli "Right to Self-Determination?"​​*Or put another way:*​
> What clause is in the Recommendation, (clear and concisely) are you holding as​incomplete or omitted that would foreclose on self-determination?​
> There is no doubt in my itty-bitty mind that sometimes, the most fervent and passionate pro-Arab Palestinian advocate has constructed their own "political reality" and "illogical concepts" that in defiance of all other presentations, they insist on hold as the truth and only way it can be.
> 
> So tell us what is behind your reality on this issue?  What is it that brings tension to your mental spring?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get the idea that foreign colonial settlers have the right to self determination on top of the native population?
> 
> Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

Where do you get the idea that that Jews were not a part of the native population?

Link?


You were given links that identify Jewish organizations purchased large tracts of land from absentee landowners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated?

Iink?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Judgment on the National Council
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *Once the British Abandon the Field, everyone knew there was going to be a Conflict. It did not matter how or who interpreted the RECOMMENDATION and the thoroughness of the Israelis.
> ​_From the Madrid Invitation in 1991 to the introduction of the Oslo process in_​_1993 to the present, a negotiated settlement has remained the *dominant *__*leitmotiv*_​_*of peacemaking* between Israel and the Palestinian people._​................................................................................_Robert P. Barnidge, Jr._​................................................................................Taken From:  Self-Determination, Statehood, and the Law of Negotiation​................................................................................© Robert P. Barnidge, Jr. 2016 • Published in the UK by Hart Publishing Ltd​
> I saw that phrase and thought:  So eloquent and yet so wrong (_dominant dominant)_.  But I read the book anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You've been saying this for years.  So let's dust this off and get down to the *Nitty-Gritty*:
> 
> Just what "REQUIREMENT(s)" did the National Council not complete that would be an​"impediment" to the Israeli "Right to Self-Determination?"​​*Or put another way:*​
> What clause is in the Recommendation, (clear and concisely) are you holding as​incomplete or omitted that would foreclose on self-determination?​
> There is no doubt in my itty-bitty mind that sometimes, the most fervent and passionate pro-Arab Palestinian advocate has constructed their own "political reality" and "illogical concepts" that in defiance of all other presentations, they insist on hold as the truth and only way it can be.
> 
> So tell us what is behind your reality on this issue?  What is it that brings tension to your mental spring?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get the idea that foreign colonial settlers have the right to self determination on top of the native population?
> 
> Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get the idea that that Jews were not a part of the native population?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You were given links that identify Jewish organizations purchased large tracts of land from absentee landowners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated?
> 
> Iink?
Click to expand...

Land ownership in a country does not remove that land from the country.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  Judgment on the National Council
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *Once the British Abandon the Field, everyone knew there was going to be a Conflict. It did not matter how or who interpreted the RECOMMENDATION and the thoroughness of the Israelis.
> ​_From the Madrid Invitation in 1991 to the introduction of the Oslo process in_​_1993 to the present, a negotiated settlement has remained the *dominant *__*leitmotiv*_​_*of peacemaking* between Israel and the Palestinian people._​................................................................................_Robert P. Barnidge, Jr._​................................................................................Taken From:  Self-Determination, Statehood, and the Law of Negotiation​................................................................................© Robert P. Barnidge, Jr. 2016 • Published in the UK by Hart Publishing Ltd​
> I saw that phrase and thought:  So eloquent and yet so wrong (_dominant dominant)_.  But I read the book anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UNPC finished its coordination for those things essential for the National Council Council for the Jewish State to present a turn-key operation to the Provisional Government for Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those were the articles in resolution 181, Israel failed all of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You've been saying this for years.  So let's dust this off and get down to the *Nitty-Gritty*:
> 
> Just what "REQUIREMENT(s)" did the National Council not complete that would be an​"impediment" to the Israeli "Right to Self-Determination?"​​*Or put another way:*​
> What clause is in the Recommendation, (clear and concisely) are you holding as​incomplete or omitted that would foreclose on self-determination?​
> There is no doubt in my itty-bitty mind that sometimes, the most fervent and passionate pro-Arab Palestinian advocate has constructed their own "political reality" and "illogical concepts" that in defiance of all other presentations, they insist on hold as the truth and only way it can be.
> 
> So tell us what is behind your reality on this issue?  What is it that brings tension to your mental spring?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get the idea that foreign colonial settlers have the right to self determination on top of the native population?
> 
> Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get the idea that that Jews were not a part of the native population?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You were given links that identify Jewish organizations purchased large tracts of land from absentee landowners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
> 
> Where do you get the idea that rights are not inherent and inalienable but are to be negotiated?
> 
> Iink?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Land ownership in a country does not remove that land from the country.
Click to expand...

Indeed. You're on that mythical "country of Pal'istan" amusement park thrill ride.

Indeed. When you're forced to invent elements in a desperate attempt to support a fallacious argument, you appear rather silly.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Judgment on the National Council
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *The Israeli Declaration of Independence is written for the Israeli People and (in the case of Israel) the territorial administrator. It is NOT written for the opposing Arab Palestinians. The Declaration does not make any pledge or impose any obligation relative the opposing Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, but Israel mentioned it in its declaration of independence anyway to pretend to have some legitimacy.


*(COMMENT)*

I do not speak for the State of Israel, but to the best of my knowledge:

◈  PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION:​✦  Deals with the establishment of a Provisional Council of Government​​*ANSWER*:  The National Council for the Jewish State established the Provisional Government​​◈  PART ONE C OF RESOLUTION:​✦  Holy Places, religious buildings and sites​​*ANSWER*:  "Since the reunification of Jerusalem in 1967, Israel has granted access to holy sites of all faiths and has restored and rebuilt Christian, Jewish and Muslim holy sites."​​✦  Religious and Minority Rights​​*ANSWER*:   Israeli holds an accommodating variant of the old Ottoman _millet_ system; as modified by High Court rulings. This form was adopted to maintain the Israeli-Jewish identity while retaining independence among the country’s non-Jewish inhabitants.​​✦  Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations​​*ANSWER* (Citizenship):   Israeli operates under the 1952 Citizenship Act (as amended).​*ANSWER* (Conventions):  Israel conforms to  the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)​*ANSWER* (Financial Obligations): Israel has assumed all its financial obligations. No Court Ruled obligation has gone unanswered. Israel is the Highest Rated nation (Ranking 19th) of any country in the African, Middle East Region, the Gulf States, and Indian Ocean in terms of Human Development.​​

​◈  PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION:​✦  Deals with the establishment of the Provisional Councils of Government​​*ANSWER: * Israel has the most stable and dynamic government for any country in the Middle East.​
The totality of the Resolution does not apply to the Arab Palestinians, as they rejected participation in January 1948.  No boundaries in the Resolution are applicable, as the Arab Palestinians did not have a real government until 2012.  And even that is questionable.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

*Female terrorist murderer joins teachers, journalists, and politicians as Palestinian role model on International Women’s Day*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 15, 2021
*

*


I wonder if she got the email.









						Hamas court says women need guardian's approval to travel
					

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel, further restricting movement in and out of the territory that has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt since the militant group seized power...




					apnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel cannot bomb its way to legitimacy. ~ Ali Abunimah*


----------



## Mindful

__





						Palestinian Arab Serenades IDF Soldier
					

At the Qalandiya checkpoint crossing in Jerusalem, a palestinian Arab laborer sings a love song in Hebrew to an IDF soldier




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'We Are Not Numbers': Harnessing Palestine's Young Talents*


----------



## Hollie

Young Pally talent


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mariam Barghouti speaks about the new generation of Palestinians*


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists in the PA are in a bit of a oneupsmanship game with the Islamic terrorists in Hamas as they screech about their hoped-for destruction of Israel.

Watching the collection of Islamic terrorist misfits surviving on international welfare while making such cheap threats is truly pathetic. 




PA presents the PLO Charter as currently calling for Israel's destruction









						PA presents the PLO Charter as currently calling for Israel's destruction | PMW Analysis
					

PA TV filler cites the PLO Charter presenting the destruction of Israel as “self – defense” and hides that it was supposed to have been amended




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 16, 2021
*PA TV filler cites the PLO Charter presenting the destruction of Israel as “self – defense” and hides that it was supposed to have been amended*

*The 1964 PLO Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.*
*A PA TV educational filler presents sections of the Charter calling for Israel's destruction, saying Israel exists on Palestinian “stolen homeland,” and that fighting to destroy Israel is “necessitated by self-defense.”*
* It makes no mention of the Oslo Accords or the ensuing major changes that should have been made to the Charter, that contradict all the clauses the filler presents.   *
*The current actions and ideology of the PA regularly reflect those provisions of the PLO Charter that PA TV chose to highlight.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mariam Barghouti speaks about the new generation of Palestinians*


Strange how the new generation of Islamic terrorists are a lot like the old generation of Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz.

$181 million dollars worth of welfare money sure buys a lot of Islamic terrorist hate and retrogression. 










						PLO says $15 million per month being paid in terror stipends
					

Prisoners' affairs chief tells ToI as much as $181 million paid in 2020; PA payments to security prisoners, terrorists' families, has brought international criticism




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Prisoners’ affairs chief tells ToI as much as $181 million paid in 2020; PA payments to security prisoners, terrorists’ families, has brought international criticism


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The 1964 PLO Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.


Just words.

Meanwhile, Israel is using its mooched money to wipe Palestine off the map.

Israel is the mooch capital of the world.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1964 PLO Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Just words.
> 
> Meanwhile, Israel is using its mooched money to wipe Palestine off the map.
> 
> Israel is the mooch capital of the world.
Click to expand...


Nonsense. Actions speak with the utmost clarity. "Just words" is the usual attempt to sidestep and dodge the actions of the Pally Death Cult which demonstrate their clearly defined intentions toward the Israeli people. "Just words" is pleading ignorance to the reality of threats and actions perpetrated in furtherance of the Islamic gee-had. 

It's hilarious that a Pally Pom Pom flailer would hurl the "mooch" slogan. The dollar value of the Pally welfare fraud is staggering, especially considering how much of that welfare money has been squandered.


----------



## Hollie

Lebanese Journalist Nadim Koteich: The Palestinians Are Foolishly Continuing Their Resistance


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


How long are you going to pimp this one video. It is...like... 12 years old.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long are you going to pimp this one video. It is...like... 12 years old.
Click to expand...

Odd that you would be whining about pimping videos.


----------



## Hollie

*D for Death - D for Dalal*

There was quite the Islamic terrorist love-fest taking place in that part of the world occupied by Islamic terrorist enablers. 











						D for Death - D for Dalal | PMW Analysis
					

The PA piles honors on terrorist Dalal Mughrabiwho led the most lethal terror attack in Israel's history




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 18, 2021

*The PA piles honors on terrorist Dalal Mughrabi
who led the most lethal terror attack in Israel's history
- the Coastal Road massacre -
in which 37 were murdered, among them 12 children*




*PA and Fatah: Mass murderer of children is a“the symbol of the Palestinian revolution” and “a guiding light”*
*“Dalal Mughrabi… shocked Israel to its foundations”*
*PA exaggerates “success,” claiming the “operation led to the death of hundreds killed and wounded on the Israeli side.”*
*PA names square in Jenin after terrorist Mughrabi*
*PA official about Dalal Mughrabi Square: “to immortalize the memory of the heroic Martyr who carried out a daring self-sacrificing operation and watered the pure land of Palestine with her blood”*
*Honored also by PA TV, official Fatah Facebook, Fatah Nablus Facebook and the official PA daily*


----------



## Hollie

As you might have guessed, Arab-Moslem crimes against Arabs-Moslems is the fault of the Israelis.

The black hole of want and need that is the Pally condition means that they are forever child-like and unable to behave like grownups. 














						Palestinians protest Israeli police inaction amid crime wave
					

Palestinian citizens of Israel blame Israeli police for high level of intra-communal violence within their community.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Some activists say the lack of action by Israeli police is intentional, and officers who deal with Palestinian-on-Palestinian crime see it as an internal familial or tribal issue.

However, according to the Umm al-Fahm protest movement, the role of the Israeli police has been deeply entrenched in fostering and encouraging organised and systemic crime in the Palestinian Arab community within Israel, for the purpose of “dividing our unity, tearing our social fabric, and confusing our political compass”.


----------



## Hollie

Telling us what we already know. 

It is refreshing to read some ''bottom line'' assessments on dealing with the Arabs-Moslems posing as ''Pal'istanians''. For all the time, effort and billions of dollars showered on the Pals, they simply refuse to accommodate some pretty simple demands to stop the thievery of international welfare money.








						Palestinian Corruption and Hatred Makes Peace Difficult for Israel
					

Palestinian Corruption Makes Peace Difficult for Israel




					www.kabc.com
				





While Former President Trump’s administration did not realize peace between Israel and the PA, it did make significant advancements in the greater region with the signing of the Abraham Accords, a normalization agreement between Israel and several Arab countries: the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan. The main reason this peace was accomplished is because these countries have leaders who were finally convinced that peace with Israel was better for their own countries and the region, something the Palestinian Authority has been unwilling or unable to consider.

Israel has consistently proven that it desires peace as it has offered numerous concessions which were routinely rejected.

Unfortunately, leaders of the PA and Hamas don’t share the same yearning for peace and they have never aspired to improve the lives of their people.

These leaders have siphoned billions in humanitarian aid monies from the US, Europe and their Arab neighbors, and funneled these funds into manufacturing weapons to attack Israeli citizens, stipends to terrorists and their families as rewards for violence, and to line their own pockets.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism can be hard work. 




*PMW initiative creates havoc for the PA Pay-for-Slay policy*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 17, 2021

PMW initiative creates havoc for the PA Pay-for-Slay policy | PMW Analysis (palwatch.org) 

*PA leadership in touch with the American administration, the EU, and Israeli authorities to solve problem with terror rewards and “find a solution that will allow the renewal of paying the salaries”*
*Part one of problem solved: PA’s creative scheme to circumvent Israeli anti-terror law and fool donors by making terrorist salaries look like ordinary salaries is well underway - released terrorists are already being incorporated into the PA security mechanisms*
*Part two of problem still unsolved: PA frantically trying to find way to pay imprisoned terrorists without being caught up in Israel's anti-terror legislation*
*PA TV repeats Abbas’ vow to pay terrorists no matter what – even “if we are left with only one penny”*
According to the Director of the Palestinian Authority-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Qadri Abu Bakr, the PA leadership is working closely with the US administration, the EU, and Israeli authorities to ensure that the PA will be able to pay the monthly salaries it pays to terrorist prisoners and released terrorists, via the banks in April. Abu Bakr added that dozens of employees in the commission are working - “even on vacation days” - to guarantee a solution is found to give the terrorists their rewards.


----------



## Hollie

In an attempt to keep rewarding the misfit psychopaths created and supported by the PA, that particular islamic terrorist franchise is attempting to create a bureaucracy under which the bought and paid for killers can continue to be paid with international welfare money. 












						Palestinian Authority attempting to conceal terrorist stipends - report
					

Former terrorists will be recruited into the authority's security services as part of this program, which could jeopardize Israeli security and cooperation.




					www.jpost.com
				





Palestinian Authority attempting to conceal terrorist stipends - report

Former terrorists will be recruited into the authority's security services as part of this program, which could jeopardize Israeli security and cooperation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another stolen Jordanian flag.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli law says that it must reduce the amount paid by the same amount that the PA pays terrorists. Up until now, Israel's deduction was based on the salaries that the PA paid to terrorists in prison; Israel has now included the stipends the PA pays families of "martyrs" and those wounded during attacks.

According to Times of Israel, the PLO recently admitted that it pays about 50 million shekels a month in terrorist salaries, so this is more in line with the true total that the Palestinian leadership pays terrorists.

(full article online)









						Israel takes away more terrorist money from the PA
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, the Joint Committee for Refugees closed all UNRWA service centers in the Gaza Strip for two consecutive days in protest, ensuring that no one gets food at all.

If they keep it up, UNRWA can save lots of money on food rations. Soon all recipients of food aid in Gaza can starve thanks to the people who pretend to defend them.

This is the sort of story that gets roundly ignored in the Western media, because Palestinians having reckless disregard for their own people isn't worth reporting on. 

(full article online)









						Brilliant Palestinian protesters shut down UNRWA centers, blocking aid to EVERYONE
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


I guess the gee-had wasn’t working too well.


----------



## Hollie

So, does this mean the Ummah’s girls don’t need permission from their masters to do a gee-had?


*PA: Equal rights for women, means equal “right” to murder*









						PA: Equal rights for women, means equal “right” to murder | PMW Analysis
					

Top PA official Rajoub defends glorification of mass murderers as “stars”




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus | Mar 22, 2021

*Top PA official Rajoub defends glorification of mass murderers as “stars”*
Top PA official Jibril Rajoub has asserted that Fatah is a champion of equal rights for women. The proof is that the PA/Fatah also sends women, just as it sends men, to carry out murderous terror attacks:


> “If we didn’t have a culture like this [of equal rights for women], would we have wanted Dalal Mughrabi to lead an operation like this (i.e., the most lethal attack in Israel's history in which 37 Israelis were murdered) and Fatima Barnawi (i.e., who placed a bomb in a movie theatre)?”


----------



## Rigby5

toastman said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
Click to expand...


If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.


----------



## Rigby5

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam teaches THE REJECTION OF THE TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN VIEW THAT JESUS WAS GOD INCARNATE OR THE SON OF GOD. That means that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Muslims do not accept that Jesus was himself the God (Allah), but they accept that he was the son of God (Allah).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Muslims are persecuting Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only those Muslims, that are supported or instigated by Zionists.
> 
> BTW, what about Jesus in the Talmud?
> Why do you not comment on this issue?
> Do Jews believe that Jesus was the son of God, like Muslims do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate.  Cannot you understand your own links?  ISIS is not supported by Zionists.  There are some derogatory messages about Jesus in the Talmud.  So what?  Jews are not killing Christians in the Middle East as we speak.
Click to expand...


No sane or rational person believes that Jesus was the "son of God".
Gods do not have sex, so can't have progeny, if they exist at all.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
Click to expand...


*why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *

What country was Jerusalem in?

*Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*

Because Palestine imports terror materials.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
Click to expand...


Oh, narly. You chucked in the _genocide_™ slogan.


----------



## Rigby5

Mindful said:


> View attachment 470774



Lies.
First of all, the Hebrew tribes did NOT get to Jerusalem in 3000 BC.
Jerusalem was founded by Arab Canaanites, not Hebrew.
Hebrew did not invade until about 1000 BC, and only ruled for a few hundred years before being continually defeated by Babylonians, Assyrians, and Romans.

And Jerusalem is mentioned in the Quran, but by other names.

Moslems pray towards Mecca, but that does not at all mean their backs are towards Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was the capital of every Arab or Muslim entity in the area, and was only captured by Hebrew for a couple hundred years.  In fact, Hebrew are just a small sect of Arabs.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
Click to expand...


Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.

It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.


----------



## toastman

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.
> 
> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to convince me that there was a country called Palestine in 1920? Do you have a link ?


----------



## toastman

Rigby5 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
Click to expand...

Don’t want Israel to block shipping, don’t try to attain weapons and explosive materials. That’s what you get for behaving badly.
Ask yourself this: do you really think that Israel would have blocked shipping for the Palestinians had they never attacked Israel?
Palestinians kill/attempt to kill Israelis , then whine at the consequences .
When you look up the word “cry baby” in the the dictionary....... you know the rest ...


----------



## toastman

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.
> 
> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.
Click to expand...

This is not about jurisdiction, this is about Israel doing what it needs to protect itself...


----------



## Rigby5

toastman said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.
> 
> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to convince me that there was a country called Palestine in 1920? Do you have a link ?
Click to expand...


Obviously there was a country of Palestine in 1920.
All they were missing was a legitimate government, which is what the British Mandate for Palestine was supposed to help organize.

{...

The *Mandate for Palestine* was a League of Nations mandate for British administration of the territories of Palestine and Transjordan, both of which had been conceded by the Ottoman Empire following the end of World War I in 1918. The mandate was assigned to Britain by the San Remo conference in April 1920, after France's concession in the 1918 Clemenceau–Lloyd George Agreement of the previously-agreed "international administration" of Palestine under the Sykes–Picot Agreement. Transjordan was added to the mandate after the Arab Kingdom in Damascus was toppled by the French in the Franco-Syrian War. Civil administration began in Palestine and Transjordan in July 1920 and April 1921, respectively, and the mandate was in force from 29 September 1923 to 15 May 1948.

The mandate document was based on Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations of 28 June 1919 and the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers' San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920. The objective of the mandates over former territories of Ottoman Empire was to provide "administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone". The border between Palestine and Transjordan was agreed in the final mandate document, and the approximate northern border with the French Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon was agreed in the Paulet–Newcombe Agreement of 23 December 1920.
...}

The British before the war had already promised Palestine independence if they helped defeat the Ottoman Empire in WWI, and they did their part.

{...
Back in 1915, the British needed the help of the Arabs in defeating the *Ottoman Empire* in World War I. In a set of letters called the '*McMahon–Hussein Correspondence*,' they promised the Arabs that if they rebelled against The Ottoman Empire (which had sided with Germany in the war), that they would get their own independent state (as depicted in the first map above). 
...}


----------



## Rigby5

toastman said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don’t want Israel to block shipping, don’t try to attain weapons and explosive materials. That’s what you get for behaving badly.
> Ask yourself this: do you really think that Israel would have blocked shipping for the Palestinians had they never attacked Israel?
> Palestinians kill/attempt to kill Israelis , then whine at the consequences .
> When you look up the word “cry baby” in the the dictionary....... you know the rest ...
Click to expand...


It is perfectly legal for ANY country to attain weapons and explosive material.
What is illegal is for Israel to prevent the Palestinians from getting whatever they wish to get.
It is not behaving badly to attain weapons when you are being illegally occupied.

Palestinians never did attack Israel.
Israel has always been the aggressor and has always illegally occupied Palestine.
Palestine never had an army or weapons, and never attacked anyone.
Israel is illegally occupying not just Jerusalem, but all of Palestine.
The demolitions of Arab homes and illegal Jewish settlements are well known.

Even the 1948 war was started by Israelis, massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.


----------



## Rigby5

toastman said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.
> 
> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not about jurisdiction, this is about Israel doing what it needs to protect itself...
Click to expand...


That is illegal and criminal.
If Israel has a case, then by law it has to take that case to the UN.
Unilateral use of force is criminal.
And clearly it is Israel that is in violation of international law, not Palestine.
The only legal border of Israel is the 1948 UN division, which puts Jerusalem outside of Israel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.



Created what? 

*It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials. *

Sure it does.

*Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, *

Wanna bet? 

*which was legally created by treaty in 1920.*

You're confused.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Creation and Legal Considerations
⁜→ Rigby5, et al,

BLUF:  You have this entirely wrong.




Rigby5 said:


> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.


*(COMMENT)*

The Treaty of Sevres (1920) was never ratified by the Turkish Government and subsequently was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne (1924).

Even if the Treaty of Sevres was the guiding requirement, *SECTION VII. SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE.
ARTICLE 95 of the Treaty of Sevres states*"

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.​
But then *Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne state*:
​Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside  the  frontiers  laid  down  in  the  present  Treaty  and  the  islands  other  than  those  over  which  her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.​​The  provisions  of  the  present  Article  do  not  prejudice  any  special  arrangements  arising  from neighbourly  relations  which  have  been  or  may  be  concluded  between  Turkey  and  any  limitrophe countries.​
You should take note that the Arab Palestinians _(in point of fact • no Arab representatives at all)_ were a party to the Treaty, let alone a party concerned.  _(See the Preamble for the Parties to the Treaty.)_ The future of Palestine was to be settled by the parties concerned. It was NOT a sovereign state or country.



Rigby5 said:


> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.


*(COMMENT)*

The question is NOT whether or not Israel has jurisdiction - but, whether or not the Arab Palestinian Government of Ramallah (Palestinians Authority) has Jurisdiction.  And if it has jurisdiction, to what extent?

In 1988, the West Bank was a sovereign territory of Jordan; occupied by the Israelis.  In July 1988, HM The King cut all ties to the West Bank (disengagement), abandoning the territory into the hands of the Israeli Occupation.  The Arab Palestinians had no active government to take over.  Thus, the territory was essentially handed *Terra Nullius* to the Israelis.

This changed with the Oslo Accords and the designation of Areas "A" • "B" and "C" in the agreement with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
The *Security Council* — the primary organ of the United Nations responsible for the maintenance of international peace and security—remains actively seized of the small arms and light weapons challenge. It has addressed small arms and light weapons-related issues across its agenda, from Security Sector Reform to arms embargoes to counter-terrorism and sustaining peace, while also treating these matters in country-specific and regionally-focused contexts.​​In 1999, the Security Council first addressed the issue of small arms as a standalone agenda item. In 2013, the Council adopted resolution 2117 (2013) on small arms, which focused on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons (SALW). Resolution 2220 (2015) contained further provisions aimed at bolstering international cooperation, effective implementation of UN arms embargoes and support to the Arms Trade Treaty. The Council issued Presidential statements on small arms in 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005 and 2007.​
Relative to SALW, the issue is addressed on multiple levels.  Resolutions A/RES/60/288 • Decides  to  include  in  the  provisional  agenda  of  its  sixty-second  session  an item entitled “*The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy”*. Withing the Strategy is the Annexed "Action Plan." This Action Plan covers the SALW problem in Paragraph 5, Section II • Measures to prevent and combat terrorism which states:

5.  To  strengthen  coordination  and  cooperation  among  States  in  combating  crimes  that  might  be  connected  with  terrorism,  including  drug  trafficking  in  all  its  aspects,  illicit  arms  trade,  in  particular  of  small  arms  and  light  weapons,  including  man-portable  air  defence  systems,  money-laundering  and  smuggling  of  nuclear,  chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials;​
There is plenty of Justification for the Israelis to implement in disrupting the follow of weaponry that threatens necessary to protect national security, public order, public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others.  Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

My Knee Jerk Response to the comment.
*




*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine,


Administration of *what?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> effective implementation of UN arms embargoes and support to the Arms Trade Treaty.


Does the UN have an arms embargo on Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.


According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.

The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.

So no official body created Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> 
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> 
> So no official body created Israel.
Click to expand...


Not according to Lon and the Mandate, but according to a later quote by Churchil.
However the language of the international law you've brought up, says the exact opposite:

_"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."_

Resolution 181 was actually the first time ever an Arab state was suggested,
wasn't binding, and failed. The official body creating Israel was...Israel themselves.

Need that explained?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> 
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> 
> So no official body created Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to Lon and the Mandate, but according to a later quote by Churchil.
> However the language of the international law you've brought up, says the exact opposite:
> 
> _"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."_
> 
> Resolution 181 was actually the first time ever an Arab state was suggested,
> wasn't binding, and failed. The official body creating Israel was...Israel themselves.
> 
> Need that explained?
Click to expand...

That brings up some questions that you will not answer.

Why are the West Bank and Gaza Strip called the OPT? (Occupied Palestinian Territory) What are the history and process for that designation?

Why do the Palestinians call Israel "48?"


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> "Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."


What was the JNH under the Mandate?


*ART. 7.*​​The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
Why would the Palestinians and the Jews become nationals and citizens of a place that was not a state?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Creation and Legal Considerations
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I'm not sure you have even 25% of your implications correct. 



RoccoR said:


> by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine,





P F Tinmore said:


> Administration of *what?*


*(COMMENT)*

What is the matter?  It clearly says that it was addressing the administration of the territory within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, and entrusted to a Mandatory.



RoccoR said:


> effective implementation of UN arms embargoes and support to the Arms Trade Treaty.





P F Tinmore said:


> Does the UN have an arms embargo on Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

Short Answer:  No.  (Reminder:  I don't speak for Israel.)

But it appears quite clearly that Israel implements its own screening processes that include both legally binding embargoes and those that are solely political commitments.  The Israelis have implemented programs → in place that reduce the weapons, and materials used to manufacture weapons, that are in the hands of designated terrorist organizations and being used by organizations like the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem, the Palestinians Islamic Jihad, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command, etc.  

​

			
				JIHAD Watch said:
			
		

> *Palestinian Authority reiterates that PLO Charter calling for Israel’s total destruction is still in effect*
> On a recent television broadcast, “while presenting the historical overview” of the PLO Charter, the Palestinian Authority “chose to cite the Charter’s declarations denying Israel’s right to exist and the PLO’s goal of destroying Israel, even claiming that it is supported by the UN…. there is no reference to the fact that the PA obligated itself to cancel all the clauses of the PLO Charter calling for Israel’s destruction, under the terms of the Oslo Accords.”
> *SOURCE:*  Mar 18, 2021 4:00 pm By Christine Douglass-Williams




NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT:  Israel has every right (in fact and obligation< to take steps to intercept arms shipments that will fall into the hands of threats to Israeli security, sovereignty, and stability.



RoccoR said:


> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.





P F Tinmore said:


> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> So no official body created Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

The LoN Covenant, the Mandate, and the UN A/RES/181 (II) DO NOT create States.  They set the conditions for a people to exercise self-determination in a way that a state may be recognized as a consequence of self-determination.  In the "Question of Palestine," theNational Council for the Jewish State cooperated with the UN Palestine Commission, and at the end of the process, the State of Israel was created.  The Arab Palestinians rejected the call for cooperation and the consequences are evident.

Your concept of "failed" is somewhat different than mine.  The State of Israel does physically, politically, and developmentally exist. *(That cannot be denied!)* Whether or not the Arab Palestinians recognize it or not, IS completely and utterly irrelevant.  The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.  [Article 3,* Convention on Rights and Duties of States* (1933)].

No official body is required to create a state.  As has been said several thousand times in this discussion group:  Israel exists through self-determination.  Israel has the most conditions that influence the possibilities of satisfying the needs and desires of its people.  Israel does this better than any other country in the Middle East (and beyond).  In contrast, the Arab Palestinians are still a culture of total dependence. It is a welfare state kept alive by contributions from donor nations.  What they are today as a nation is a consequence of their focus:
​
The media spokesperson and “popular resistance coordinator” of Fatah’s Qalqilya branch, Murad Shtewi, stressed that 
Palestinians view the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea as “Palestine,” 
and that they won’t give up an inch of it. 
He also called on Palestinians to carry out “a popular revolution” against Israel.
*SOURCE VIDEO*:  [*Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 30, 2019*]​
* 



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Whether or not the Arab Palestinians recognize it or not, IS completely and utterly irrelevant.


No it isn't. The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestinians view the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea as “Palestine,”


It's not? How did Israel get that territory?

Links?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.



They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
Click to expand...

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...


*How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*

Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?

You make me laugh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
Click to expand...

Poor attempt at a duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> 
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> 
> So no official body created Israel.
Click to expand...

What requirement was needed for an official body?

The answer is none. 

Thanks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...

How can you suggest the Pally's have no territory when you insist the Magical Kingdom of Pallyland was invented as a state by the Treaty of Lausanne?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
Click to expand...


Never was a country, never owned any territory.

Not a duck in sight.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
Click to expand...

Who told you that?

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  Misinformation and Disinformation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Arab Palestinians want so desperately for some territory, as may be determined by the Allied Powers, to be declared their territory and country.



RoccoR said:


> Whether or not the Arab Palestinians recognize it or not, IS completely and utterly irrelevant.





P F Tinmore said:


> No it isn't. The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.





RoccoR said:


> Palestinians view the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea as “Palestine,”





P F Tinmore said:


> It's not? How did Israel get that territory?


*(COMMENT)*

The Reality of the Current Situation:  The Arab Palestinians can take the valid position that they have sovereignty over two parcels of territory:

◈  August 2005:  The Israel Government orders a unilateral disengagement and withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.  When that disengagement was completed, the Gaza Strip would NO LONGER be considered occupied because at that point the Gaza Strip would not be under the authority of the Israel Defense Force.  "The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  _(1*907 Hague Regulation • Article 42 • Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state*)_​​✦  Article 22(2) _Nullum crimen sine lege_ • Part III General Principles of Criminal Law • *Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*​The definition of a  crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy.  In case of ambiguity,  the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted. ​
◈  Oslo II - *The Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement - Map No. 1* (1995):  The citation reads inpart:  ​"Government of Israel and Palestine Liberation Organization (1995) "Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Map No. 1: First Phase of Redeployment, Map Delineating Areas A and B." ​​*(Reference: A/51/889 S/1997/357 English Page 17 = Oslo II Accords)*​All  civil  powers  and  responsibilities,  including  planning  and  zoning, * in  Areas A and B*,  set out  in Annex III^ will be transferred  to  and  assumed  by  the Council during the first phase of  redeployment.  ​​In *Area  C*, during the first phase of redeployment Israel will transfer to the Council civil powers and responsibilities not relating to territory, as set out in Annex III. ​​For the purpose  of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means,  in the West Bank - *the  settlements  in  Area  C*;   and  in  the  Gaza  Strip  -  the  Gush  Katif  and  Erez  settlement  areas, as well as the other  settlements  in the  Gaza  Strip,  as shown  on  attached  map No. 2.​​✦  The Council  will, upon completion  of the redeployment  of Israeli  military  forces  in  each  district,  as  set  out  in  Appendix  1 to  Annex  I,  assume  the  powers  and  responsibilities for  internal security and public order in *Area A* in that  district.​​✦  In  *Area  B*  the  Palestinian  Police  shall  assume  the  responsibility  for  public  order  for  Palestinians  and  shall  be  deployed  in  order  to  accommodate  the  Palestinian needs  and requirements in the following  manner:​​ ✦  The  territorial  jurisdiction  of  the  Council  shall  encompass  Gaza  Strip  territory,  except  for  the  Settlements  and  the  Military  Installation  Area  shown on map No. 2,  and West  Bank territory, except  for  *Area C* which, except  for  the  issues  that  will  be  negotiated  in  the  permanent  status  negotiations,  will  be  gradually  transferred  to  Palestinian  jurisdiction  in  three  phases,  each to  take  place  after  an  interval  of  six  months,  to  be  completed  18 months  after  the  inauguration  of the Council.  At  this  time,  the  jurisdiction  of  the  Council  will  cover  West  Bank  and  Gaza  Strip  territory,  except  for  the  issues  that  will  be  negotiated  in  the  permanent  status negotiations. ​
Clearly, if the Arab Palestinians want, they could out'n'out declare *Area A* as sovereign unto them.  And they might even be able to make a valid argument that *Area B* is sovereign unto them.  BUT, *Area C* is clearly not under the sovereign control of the Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?





P F Tinmore said:


> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> You don't make any sense.


*(POINT of ORDER)*

Where do you get this misinformation from?  The issue of borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest are all part of the "Permanent Status of Negotiation" and NOT Final anything.  In fact, Israel has moved ahead in the areas of relations and cooperation with other neighboring nations because of Arab Palestinian foot draggging.

ARTICLE V •  *Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (1993)*
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS

1.    The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.  ​​2.    Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.  ​​3.    It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.  ​​4.    The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
*(COMMENT)*

Short Answer:  It doesn't matter what the Arab Palestinians hold territorially.  Territorial Sovereignty we are addressing is all about what is the exclusive competence of the State in regard to its own territory.  Not Arab Palestinian dreams.

While the status of the (Question of) Palestinian State is becoming more and more irrelevant, Israel is now in its in its seventh decade of sovereign territorial control.  The Question of Palestine is still a question of Palestine.


			
				Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *territorial sovereignty* • This is an aspect of sovereignty , connoting the internal, rather than the external, manifestation of the principle of sovereignty. It is the ‘principle of the exclusive competence of the State in regard to its own territory . . . Territorial sovereignty is, in general, a situation recognized and delimited in space . . . [and] signifies independence. Independence in regard to a portion of the globe is the right to exercise therein, to the exclusion of any other State, the functions of a State’: Arbitrator Max Huber in the Island of Palmas Case ( 1928 ) 2 R.I.A.A. 829 at 838.
> *SOURCE:* *Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law* • 3ed. Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. • pp 599 • ISBN 978-0-19-538977-7



*




*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
Click to expand...

*Decisions of international and national tribunals*

The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne  provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. *A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]









						State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Reality of the Current Situation: The Arab Palestinians can take the valid position that they have sovereignty over two parcels of territory:


Israel has military control of all of Palestine, i.e. military occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
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> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> 
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne  provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. *A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...


"the Permanent Court of International Justice"


That's so silly.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Reality of the Current Situation: The Arab Palestinians can take the valid position that they have sovereignty over two parcels of territory:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has military control of all of Palestine, i.e. military occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Military control is i.e. not occupation as i.e. you may have noticed that i.e. the terms are spelled i.e. differently.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> 
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne  provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. *A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...


That ship has sailed. The Arabs fucked up. 
Palestine continues to shrink.
At this rate, they'll be lucky to be as large as Lichtenstein.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> 
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne  provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. *A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
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> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ship has sailed. The Arabs fucked up.
> Palestine continues to shrink.
> At this rate, they'll be lucky to be as large as Lichtenstein.
Click to expand...

Really? What has changed except for occupation?


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> 
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne  provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. *A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ship has sailed. The Arabs fucked up.
> Palestine continues to shrink.
> At this rate, they'll be lucky to be as large as Lichtenstein.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? What has changed except for occupation?
Click to expand...


Facts on the ground.
The huge success of Israel.
The huge failure of your Palestinians.
Really.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> 
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne  provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. *A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ship has sailed. The Arabs fucked up.
> Palestine continues to shrink.
> At this rate, they'll be lucky to be as large as Lichtenstein.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? What has changed except for occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts on the ground.
> The huge success of Israel.
> The huge failure of your Palestinians.
> Really.
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Facts on the ground.


Still occupation.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Still occupation.



Loser says what?


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## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  The Dispute
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: The decision, now a century old, was in an atmosphere that does not exist today. Government change and so do the complexion of nations. At the beginning of the 20th Century, the world was a very different place than at the bringing of the 21st Century.



P F Tinmore said:


> A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that *Palestine and Transjordan were newly created state*s according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> Facts on the ground.





P F Tinmore said:


> Still occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

If we follow this to the logical conclusion then the dispute and conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians is a "Civil War" between the two factions within the same boundary (Palestine).  And the outcome of that dispute (Civil War) between the two factions within the territory that was formerly under the Mandate, would have now been fought to its conclusion.  The war would have fallen decisively in favor of the Israelis.

Your argument fails again.  Throughout the world, there are many nations today that were decided much the same way. [/QUOTE]

Where did South Sudan come from?
Where did Kosovo come from?
Where did Serbia / Montenegro come from?  Is that just one country?  Or is that two countries?
Where did Timor-Leste come from?
Where did Eritrea come from?
How about the outcome of North and South Korea?
Was the country of Tibet the same today as it was in the time of the Dalai Lama?  Was it formerly Chinese or Indian?
Where did these countries come from?
Pakistan ( independence: Aug 14, 1947)
Afghanistan
Nepal
Ceylon ( Sri Lanka)
Burma ( Myanmar)
Bhutan

When we start talking about rolling the clock backward in order to change history, we are being disingenuous and insincere.

I ask in all sincerity:  Who is going to take what Israel has worked so hard to create?  Who, in their right mind, is going to give Israel to the corrupt, duplicitous, untrustworthy, crooks and criminals of Arab Palestine - and destroy the most successful country in the Middle East in more than a Century?
*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Rigby5 said:


> toastman said:
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> Rigby5 said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Rigby5 said:
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> toastman said:
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> Art__Allm said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.
> 
> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to convince me that there was a country called Palestine in 1920? Do you have a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously there was a country of Palestine in 1920.
> All they were missing was a legitimate government, which is what the British Mandate for Palestine was supposed to help organize.
> 
> {...
> 
> The *Mandate for Palestine* was a League of Nations mandate for British administration of the territories of Palestine and Transjordan, both of which had been conceded by the Ottoman Empire following the end of World War I in 1918. The mandate was assigned to Britain by the San Remo conference in April 1920, after France's concession in the 1918 Clemenceau–Lloyd George Agreement of the previously-agreed "international administration" of Palestine under the Sykes–Picot Agreement. Transjordan was added to the mandate after the Arab Kingdom in Damascus was toppled by the French in the Franco-Syrian War. Civil administration began in Palestine and Transjordan in July 1920 and April 1921, respectively, and the mandate was in force from 29 September 1923 to 15 May 1948.
> 
> The mandate document was based on Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations of 28 June 1919 and the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers' San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920. The objective of the mandates over former territories of Ottoman Empire was to provide "administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone". The border between Palestine and Transjordan was agreed in the final mandate document, and the approximate northern border with the French Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon was agreed in the Paulet–Newcombe Agreement of 23 December 1920.
> ...}
> 
> The British before the war had already promised Palestine independence if they helped defeat the Ottoman Empire in WWI, and they did their part.
> 
> {...
> Back in 1915, the British needed the help of the Arabs in defeating the *Ottoman Empire* in World War I. In a set of letters called the '*McMahon–Hussein Correspondence*,' they promised the Arabs that if they rebelled against The Ottoman Empire (which had sided with Germany in the war), that they would get their own independent state (as depicted in the first map above).
> ...}
Click to expand...

The article you just posted proves that Palestine was NOT A COUNTRY. Do you even read the link before you posted it


----------



## toastman

Rigby5 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don’t want Israel to block shipping, don’t try to attain weapons and explosive materials. That’s what you get for behaving badly.
> Ask yourself this: do you really think that Israel would have blocked shipping for the Palestinians had they never attacked Israel?
> Palestinians kill/attempt to kill Israelis , then whine at the consequences .
> When you look up the word “cry baby” in the the dictionary....... you know the rest ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is perfectly legal for ANY country to attain weapons and explosive material.
> What is illegal is for Israel to prevent the Palestinians from getting whatever they wish to get.
> It is not behaving badly to attain weapons when you are being illegally occupied.
> 
> Palestinians never did attack Israel.
> Israel has always been the aggressor and has always illegally occupied Palestine.
> Palestine never had an army or weapons, and never attacked anyone.
> Israel is illegally occupying not just Jerusalem, but all of Palestine.
> The demolitions of Arab homes and illegal Jewish settlements are well known.
> 
> Even the 1948 war was started by Israelis, massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.
Click to expand...

Palestinians never attacked Israel ? Really ?








						Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> 
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> 
> So no official body created Israel.
Click to expand...

Where do you read that SOMEBODY has to create Israel ?
Regardless, Israel is a sovereign nation. You not believing in its existence does not mean it does not exist


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel? *
> 
> What country was Jerusalem in?
> 
> *Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?*
> 
> Because Palestine imports terror materials.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.
> 
> It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
> Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to convince me that there was a country called Palestine in 1920? Do you have a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously there was a country of Palestine in 1920.
> All they were missing was a legitimate government, which is what the British Mandate for Palestine was supposed to help organize.
> 
> {...
> 
> The *Mandate for Palestine* was a League of Nations mandate for British administration of the territories of Palestine and Transjordan, both of which had been conceded by the Ottoman Empire following the end of World War I in 1918. The mandate was assigned to Britain by the San Remo conference in April 1920, after France's concession in the 1918 Clemenceau–Lloyd George Agreement of the previously-agreed "international administration" of Palestine under the Sykes–Picot Agreement. Transjordan was added to the mandate after the Arab Kingdom in Damascus was toppled by the French in the Franco-Syrian War. Civil administration began in Palestine and Transjordan in July 1920 and April 1921, respectively, and the mandate was in force from 29 September 1923 to 15 May 1948.
> 
> The mandate document was based on Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations of 28 June 1919 and the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers' San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920. The objective of the mandates over former territories of Ottoman Empire was to provide "administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone". The border between Palestine and Transjordan was agreed in the final mandate document, and the approximate northern border with the French Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon was agreed in the Paulet–Newcombe Agreement of 23 December 1920.
> ...}
> 
> The British before the war had already promised Palestine independence if they helped defeat the Ottoman Empire in WWI, and they did their part.
> 
> {...
> Back in 1915, the British needed the help of the Arabs in defeating the *Ottoman Empire* in World War I. In a set of letters called the '*McMahon–Hussein Correspondence*,' they promised the Arabs that if they rebelled against The Ottoman Empire (which had sided with Germany in the war), that they would get their own independent state (as depicted in the first map above).
> ...}
Click to expand...


_Back in 1915, the British needed the help of the Arabs in defeating the *Ottoman Empire* in World War I. In a set of letters called the '*McMahon–Hussein Correspondence*,' they promised the Arabs that if they rebelled against The Ottoman Empire (which had sided with Germany in the war), that they would get their own independent state (as depicted in the first map above).
...} _

Saudi Arabia did become an independent state.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You need a link that proves Palestine was not a country ? Why ? Every time we post links to counter your bullshit , you still don’t admit you’re wrong ..


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don’t want Israel to block shipping, don’t try to attain weapons and explosive materials. That’s what you get for behaving badly.
> Ask yourself this: do you really think that Israel would have blocked shipping for the Palestinians had they never attacked Israel?
> Palestinians kill/attempt to kill Israelis , then whine at the consequences .
> When you look up the word “cry baby” in the the dictionary....... you know the rest ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is perfectly legal for ANY country to attain weapons and explosive material.
> What is illegal is for Israel to prevent the Palestinians from getting whatever they wish to get.
> It is not behaving badly to attain weapons when you are being illegally occupied.
> 
> Palestinians never did attack Israel.
> Israel has always been the aggressor and has always illegally occupied Palestine.
> Palestine never had an army or weapons, and never attacked anyone.
> Israel is illegally occupying not just Jerusalem, but all of Palestine.
> The demolitions of Arab homes and illegal Jewish settlements are well known.
> 
> Even the 1948 war was started by Israelis, massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians never attacked Israel ? Really ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

All responses to Israeli violence.


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## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need a link that proves Palestine was not a country ? Why ? Every time we post links to counter your bullshit , you still don’t admit you’re wrong ..
Click to expand...

Links to Israeli propaganda sites don't count. What else you got?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need a link that proves Palestine was not a country ? Why ? Every time we post links to counter your bullshit , you still don’t admit you’re wrong ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links to Israeli propaganda sites don't count. What else you got?
Click to expand...

So when I post links from Wikipedia that clearly state Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS, that’s a propaganda site ? Lol!!! You got nothing Tinmore.. nothing but Palestinian lies , and so you claim we use Israeli propaganda sites


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
> Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
> There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don’t want Israel to block shipping, don’t try to attain weapons and explosive materials. That’s what you get for behaving badly.
> Ask yourself this: do you really think that Israel would have blocked shipping for the Palestinians had they never attacked Israel?
> Palestinians kill/attempt to kill Israelis , then whine at the consequences .
> When you look up the word “cry baby” in the the dictionary....... you know the rest ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is perfectly legal for ANY country to attain weapons and explosive material.
> What is illegal is for Israel to prevent the Palestinians from getting whatever they wish to get.
> It is not behaving badly to attain weapons when you are being illegally occupied.
> 
> Palestinians never did attack Israel.
> Israel has always been the aggressor and has always illegally occupied Palestine.
> Palestine never had an army or weapons, and never attacked anyone.
> Israel is illegally occupying not just Jerusalem, but all of Palestine.
> The demolitions of Arab homes and illegal Jewish settlements are well known.
> 
> Even the 1948 war was started by Israelis, massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians never attacked Israel ? Really ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All responses to Israeli violence.
Click to expand...

So when Israel attacks Palestinians in Gaza, it’s for what?? Fun? 
Please tell us Tinmore: How has Palestinians killing Israelis helped the Palestinians ? I await your answer


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need a link that proves Palestine was not a country ? Why ? Every time we post links to counter your bullshit , you still don’t admit you’re wrong ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links to Israeli propaganda sites don't count. What else you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when I post links from Wikipedia that clearly state Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS, that’s a propaganda site ? Lol!!! You got nothing Tinmore.. nothing but Palestinian lies , and so you claim we use Israeli propaganda sites
Click to expand...

Did they say de jure borders?


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## Mindful

*




*
https://www.facebook.com/#


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."
> 
> 
> 
> What was the JNH under the Mandate?
> 
> 
> *ART. 7.*​​The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
> Why would the Palestinians and the Jews become nationals and citizens of a place that was not a state?
Click to expand...


I don't quiet understand what are you alluding here...

The JHN was the representative of the Jewish majority,
and acquisition of citizenship is the formal relationship
between a govt, in this case the British Mandate Admin
and the residents of a territory it administers.






The Mandate as you yourself stated many times, was not a sovereign state,
neither founded and administered by or designated for an Arab state.

It was merely and administration, designated by international law,
for helping in the *re-constitution *of the Jewish National Home.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."
> 
> 
> 
> What was the JNH under the Mandate?
> 
> 
> *ART. 7.*​​The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
> Why would the Palestinians and the Jews become nationals and citizens of a place that was not a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't quiet understand what are you alluding here...
> 
> The JHN was the representative of the Jewish majority,
> and acquisition of citizenship is the formal relationship
> between a govt, in this case the British Mandate Admin
> and the residents of a territory it administers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate as you yourself stated many times, was not a sovereign state,
> neither founded and administered by or designated for an Arab state.
> 
> It was merely and administration, designated by international law,
> for helping in the *re-constitution *of the Jewish National Home.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> I don't quiet understand what are you alluding here...


Indeed, it does not fit your Israeli propaganda,


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."
> 
> 
> 
> What was the JNH under the Mandate?
> 
> 
> *ART. 7.*​​The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
> Why would the Palestinians and the Jews become nationals and citizens of a place that was not a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't quiet understand what are you alluding here...
> 
> The JHN was the representative of the Jewish majority,
> and acquisition of citizenship is the formal relationship
> between a govt, in this case the British Mandate Admin
> and the residents of a territory it administers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate as you yourself stated many times, was not a sovereign state,
> neither founded and administered by or designated for an Arab state.
> 
> It was merely and administration, designated by international law,
> for helping in the *re-constitution *of the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't quiet understand what are you alluding here...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, it does not fit your Israeli propaganda,
Click to expand...


A none answer. Totally.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> 
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> 
> So no official body created Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to Lon and the Mandate, but according to a later quote by Churchil.
> However the language of the international law you've brought up, says the exact opposite:
> 
> _"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."_
> 
> Resolution 181 was actually the first time ever an Arab state was suggested,
> wasn't binding, and failed. The official body creating Israel was...Israel themselves.
> 
> Need that explained?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That brings up some questions that you will not answer.
> 
> Why are the West Bank and Gaza Strip called the OPT? (Occupied Palestinian Territory) What are the history and process for that designation?
> 
> Why do the Palestinians call Israel "48?"
Click to expand...


Right, I can but won't.

If you have a point make it, no one has to address your general questions
every time you want to sidestep the lie you've been just caught on.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?
> 
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?*
> 
> Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?
> 
> You make me laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor attempt at a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never was a country, never owned any territory.
> 
> Not a duck in sight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need a link that proves Palestine was not a country ? Why ? Every time we post links to counter your bullshit , you still don’t admit you’re wrong ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links to Israeli propaganda sites don't count. What else you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when I post links from Wikipedia that clearly state Israel’s INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS, that’s a propaganda site ? Lol!!! You got nothing Tinmore.. nothing but Palestinian lies , and so you claim we use Israeli propaganda sites
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did they say de jure borders?
Click to expand...

Indeed, did the Pally's who tried and failed to breach the de jure Israeli borders during the border gee only commit a de jure failure?


----------



## toastman

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
> 
> The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
> 
> So no official body created Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to Lon and the Mandate, but according to a later quote by Churchil.
> However the language of the international law you've brought up, says the exact opposite:
> 
> _"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for *re-constituting* their national home in that country."_
> 
> Resolution 181 was actually the first time ever an Arab state was suggested,
> wasn't binding, and failed. The official body creating Israel was...Israel themselves.
> 
> Need that explained?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That brings up some questions that you will not answer.
> 
> Why are the West Bank and Gaza Strip called the OPT? (Occupied Palestinian Territory) What are the history and process for that designation?
> 
> Why do the Palestinians call Israel "48?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I can but won't.
> 
> If you have a point make it, no one has to address your general questions
> every time you want to sidestep the lie you've been just caught on.
Click to expand...

Yup. This is a well known tactic of Tinmore ..


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists have a snappy sing along.

“_My machine gun and my bullets are the path to salvation_”


*PA: “In every tune – a bullet, in every lyric – a rifle”*

*








						PA: “In every tune – a bullet, in every lyric – a rifle” | PMW Analysis
					

“My machine gun and my bullets are the path to salvation” – PA highlights songs about bullets and rifles




					palwatch.org
				



*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 25, 2021

*“My machine gun and my bullets are the path to salvation” – PA highlights songs about bullets and rifles*
*“Pull along the cannon, self-sacrificing fighter… I will carve my path with my blood”*
*“A self-sacrificing fighter carried the rifle and went out towards the Zionists”*



The PA’s “hit parade” in the PA TV program _Tune of the Homeland_ continues to promote songs that romanticize, stress, and even promote the “armed struggle” and the use of violence and terror against Israel. Recently the narrator of the PA’s quiz program about “national songs” even highlighted the beauty of these songs:


----------



## Hollie

I was struggling a bit with a statement issued by one of the Islamic terrorist mouthpieces for the PA. Apparently, we’re to believe “_peace can only be achieved through talks with it”_

While likely intended to diminish the competing Islamic terrorist franchise occupying Gaza, there’s the usual “what are these idiots thinking” reaction with the celebrity, hero status assigned by the PA to misfit Pally killers of Israeli citizens. 










						PA: Peace can only be achieved through Palestine leadership
					

The Palestinian Authority (PA) said yesterday that peace can only be achieved through talks with it, a statement issued by the PA Foreign Ministry said.    This came after remarks made by Israeli Prim...



					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





The Palestinian Authority (PA) said yesterday that peace can only be achieved through talks with it, a statement issued by the PA Foreign Ministry said.

This came after remarks made by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during an interview with Israel's Arabic news network _Panet_, addressing Arab voters in Israel.

He said that peace with the Palestinians could be achieved after the normalisation of ties with the Arab states, adding that he does not see a possible creation of a sovereign Palestinian state.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
SUBTOPIC:  *“*_*peace can only be achieved through talks with it”*_
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: The words say one thing, but it remains to be seen if this truly represents a paradigm shift _(a dynamic change in the worldview underlying the theories and of a central faction within the Palestinian Community)_.



Hollie said:


> I was struggling a bit with a statement issued by one of the Islamic terrorist mouthpieces for the PA. Apparently, we’re to believe *“*_*peace can only be achieved through talks with it”*_


*(COMMENT)*

Both the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) state emphatically:
​◈  HAMAS:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."​​◈  PLO:  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.  The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.​
While we might hear the words, we do not see any demonstration of this in reality.  The Arab Palestinians do not yet, even after a Century since the San Remo Agreement (1920), speak with one unified voice.  What HAMAS says is not necessarily what Fatah says.  And while the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department outlines nine issues that have been subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiation, which they never get to, HAMAS says:

"The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination."​​It is more probable that the statement made by the Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Maliki will be modified and reinterpreted by the Ramallah Government, if it can actually be defined as a government.  Yes, the few words by Minister Al-Maliki it will be interesting to see if they actually have any power behind them.

*



*
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *“*_*peace can only be achieved through talks with it”*_
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: The words say one thing, but it remains to be seen if this truly represents a paradigm shift _(a dynamic change in the worldview underlying the theories and of a central faction within the Palestinian Community)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was struggling a bit with a statement issued by one of the Islamic terrorist mouthpieces for the PA. Apparently, we’re to believe *“*_*peace can only be achieved through talks with it”*_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Both the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) state emphatically:
> ​◈  HAMAS:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."​​◈  PLO:  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.  The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.​
> While we might hear the words, we do not see any demonstration of this in reality.  The Arab Palestinians do not yet, even after a Century since the San Remo Agreement (1920), speak with one unified voice.  What HAMAS says is not necessarily what Fatah says.  And while the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department outlines nine issues that have been subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiation, which they never get to, HAMAS says:
> 
> "The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination."​​It is more probable that the statement made by the Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Maliki will be modified and reinterpreted by the Ramallah Government, if it can actually be defined as a government.  Yes, the few words by Minister Al-Maliki it will be interesting to see if they actually have any power behind them.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> "The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination."


Right on!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2*
> SUBTOPIC:  *“*_*peace can only be achieved through talks with it”*_
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: The words say one thing, but it remains to be seen if this truly represents a paradigm shift _(a dynamic change in the worldview underlying the theories and of a central faction within the Palestinian Community)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was struggling a bit with a statement issued by one of the Islamic terrorist mouthpieces for the PA. Apparently, we’re to believe *“*_*peace can only be achieved through talks with it”*_
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Both the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) state emphatically:
> ​◈  HAMAS:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."​​◈  PLO:  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.  The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.​
> While we might hear the words, we do not see any demonstration of this in reality.  The Arab Palestinians do not yet, even after a Century since the San Remo Agreement (1920), speak with one unified voice.  What HAMAS says is not necessarily what Fatah says.  And while the PLO Negotiation Affairs Department outlines nine issues that have been subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiation, which they never get to, HAMAS says:
> 
> "The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination."​​It is more probable that the statement made by the Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Maliki will be modified and reinterpreted by the Ramallah Government, if it can actually be defined as a government.  Yes, the few words by Minister Al-Maliki it will be interesting to see if they actually have any power behind them.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right on!
Click to expand...

Flail your Pom Poms for islamic terrorist misfits.


----------



## Hollie

It's emblematic of the "misfit" chararacterization defining the Pal enclaves that Haniyeh is speculating on the Pal alphabet soup configuration of councils, organizations, committees and quasi Emir'ships.

The joke here is that Haniyeh has been muzzled for three years by Egyptian authorities who keep him on a very short leash.











						Hamas head supports ‘popular resistance’ to gain legitimacy ahead of Palestinian elections
					

Hamas politburo head Ismail Haniyeh’s ambiguous statements regarding what the terror group’s post-election plans are represent an apparent attempt to hold the stick at both ends.




					www.jns.org
				




Two essential points stand out in Haniyeh’s article. First, he emphasizes that Hamas prefers to run for the PLC elections, as part of “a joint national list encompassing the widest possible spectrum of national [forces].” Second, he stresses that after the elections the Palestinians will have to formulate a strategy for confronting Israel “using all forms of struggle that are possible for our people—chief of them military resistance, while focusing on popular resistance at the present stage.”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

“Palestinians lag”. Well, yeah.

Odd. The Islamic terrorists have lots of welfare money to pay their Islamic terrorists who kill in furtherance of the gee-had. Welfare money to pay for vaccine, not so much. 











						Half of Israelis fully vaccinated as Palestinians lag
					

While half of Israelis have received second vaccine dose, vaccine rollout in occupied Palestinian areas is much slower.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




More than half of Israel’s 9.2 million people have received both doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine against COVID-19, the health ministry has said.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


“From the River to the Sea”?


----------



## Hollie

Curious that the Islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank won’t spend its welfare money for vaccines and healthcare but finds ways to pay the Islamic terrorist misfits it supports.



*The Palestinian Authority’s Financial Support for Terrorism Circumvents U.S. and Israeli Law*

The Palestinian Authority's Financial Support for Terrorism Circumvents U.S. and Israeli Law
https://jcpa.org/researcher/yoni-ben-menachem/
https://jcpa.org/the-palestinian-au...umvents-u-s-and-israeli-law/?share=email&nb=1






Palestinian posters showing prisoners jailed by Israel for terrorist activities. (Screenshot, i24News, Israel)

The Palestinian government has decided to pay grants to terrorists and their families through the Palestinian postal banks to circumvent the Israeli prohibition on West Bank commercial banks’ involvement in terrorism-related activity.


----------



## Hollie

You can take the boy out of the Islamic terrorism....


Issam Hijjawi, Chair of Scottish Palestinian community arrested for terrorism during MI5 sting Chair of Scottish Palestinian community arrested for terrorism during MI5 sting via @CUFI_UK


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Occupation does not mean ownership.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



I heard it was some Jewish guy......shhh.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Odd. It was an Egyptian who invented “Pal’istanians”.


----------



## Hollie

Outcry in Palestine after Hamas 'bans celebrating Christmas'
					

An internal document from the Hamas-run Ministry of Religious Endowments saying that Muslims should be discouraged from participating in Christmas celebrations has caused outrage and accusations of sectarianism.




					english.alaraby.co.uk


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
Click to expand...

How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
Click to expand...

No. You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


What do you mean by 'propaganda'?

For example I see you actively been supporting this ideology,
as 10 years ago, today and everyday. Instead of rejection,
you don't miss an opportunity to excuse it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Very convincing...

Ironically, maybe because in another land,
they'll start learning how to actually pronounce_ 'P-alestine'_?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



I guess there's no more banal example of the Arab-supremacist propaganda...

How can we take you seriously after that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess there's no more banal example of the Arab-supremacist propaganda...
> 
> How can we take you seriously after that?
Click to expand...

Not so. Jesus never bulldozed a house so his buddies from Brooklyn could move in.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...

You need to an intervention ro deal with your hurt feelings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to an intervention ro deal with your hurt feelings.
Click to expand...

Your butthurt doesn't hurt my feelings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean by 'propaganda'?
> 
> For example I see you actively been supporting this ideology,
> as 10 years ago, today and everyday. Instead of rejection,
> you don't miss an opportunity to excuse it.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing years before I got here. Yet Israel keeps pimping that old shit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to an intervention ro deal with your hurt feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your butthurt doesn't hurt my feelings.
Click to expand...

I have to acknowledge that you are angry and emotive.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean by 'propaganda'?
> 
> For example I see you actively been supporting this ideology,
> as 10 years ago, today and everyday. Instead of rejection,
> you don't miss an opportunity to excuse it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing years before I got here. Yet Israel keeps pimping that old shit.
Click to expand...


That's the lie you've been pimping all these years,
while using every opportunity to excuse it,
and backup those who do.

Did you change your mind about suicide bombing?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life celebrating Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times are you going to spam this 17 year old video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurt feelings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean by 'propaganda'?
> 
> For example I see you actively been supporting this ideology,
> as 10 years ago, today and everyday. Instead of rejection,
> you don't miss an opportunity to excuse it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing years before I got here. Yet Israel keeps pimping that old shit.
Click to expand...

Now they have changed tactics to more formally using children as "martyrs" to throw them onto that raging bonfire of hate called the Islamic gee-had.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

It really is an immature, paranoid personality disorder that afflicts the Pally's. They see Jew conspiracies in every waking minute of their miserable lives. 













						PA Coronavirus-libel intensifies: Israel “is deliberately transmitting the virus to the prisoners” | PMW Analysis
					

The PA has found the silver lining of the COVID-19 pandemic by using it to breathe new life into its medical libel




					palwatch.org
				





*PA Coronavirus-libel intensifies: Israel “is deliberately transmitting the virus to the prisoners”*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 30, 2021
The PA has found the silver lining of the COVID-19 pandemic by using it to breathe new life into its medical libel, according to which Israel mistreats terrorist prisoners and intentionally murders them through neglect and denial of treatment for their illnesses.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


All very melodramatic. What is the real story?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Mindful

A derivative of the name Palestine first appears in Greek literature in the 5th Century BCE when the historian Herodotus called the area _Palaistine. _In the 2nd century CE, the Romans crushed the revolt of Shimon Bar Kokhba (132 CE), during which Jerusalem and Judea were regained and the area of Judea was renamed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian _Palaestina_ in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel.

 JVL.


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality of the Pally Islamic terrorist enclave, this is not surprising.


----------



## Hollie

UNRWA is begging for more welfare money. Gee, has it been 12 hours since they last came begging?










						UNRWA raises alarm on the situation of Palestine refugees in Lebanon - Lebanon
					

English News and Press Release on Lebanon about Health, Protection and Human Rights and Epidemic; published on 01 Apr 2021 by UNRWA




					reliefweb.int
				




The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is alarmed by the dire situation of Palestine refugees in Lebanon and the precariousness in which they live, particularly in the last year of acute financial crisis and pandemic. Many Palestine refugees live in 12 overcrowded camps across the country.


----------



## Hollie

Who decides for a Pally man when the amorphous mound under a hijab, (sometimes called a person), is being disobedient?



Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Advisor to PA President: Men May Only Beat Their Wives When They Are Disobedient


----------



## Hollie

They sure do like their fashion parades.
https://palwatch.org/page/15610

https://www.twitter.com/palwatch
https://www.facebook.com/PalestinianMediaWatch

*Gunmen at Fatah rally mark first terror attack









						Gunmen at Fatah rally mark first terror attack | PMW Translations
					

Palestinians marched at the event carrying assault rifles




					palwatch.org
				



*





Text and pictures posted on the official Fatah Facebook page
*Posted text:* "The Fatah Movement – Bethlehem Branch – All-Doha Region marks the 55th anniversary of the Intilaqa (i.e., “the Launch” of Fatah marked from its first terror attempt; see note below) and the 55th torch lighting"
The pictures show Palestinians marching at the event. Many of them are masked and carrying assault rifles, while others are carrying Fatah flags with the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas, and Palestinian flags. A large sign shows arch-terrorist Abu Jihad who was responsible for the murder of 125.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

There are continuing articles from the more left wing press citing the Israeli success in continuing to vaccinate its citizens while not providing the same service to the Pals. What is a common theme in these articles is a presumption that Israel has some presumed obligation to provide medical services to the islamic terrorist enclaves which breed islamic terrorists who kill Israeli citizens.








__





						In Israel and Palestine, vaccines stop at the border wall
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: This is one of those "Gray Areas" in the law.



Hollie said:


> ... What is a common theme in these articles is a presumption that Israel has some presumed obligation to provide medical services to the islamic terrorist enclaves which breed islamic terrorists who kill Israeli citizens.


*(COMMENT)*
​


			
				The Hague Regulation said:
			
		

> *Article 43*. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to_ *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety*_*,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.​*SOURCE*: Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: *Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague,* 18 October 1907.​


​


			
				International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights said:
			
		

> _*Article 12*_​
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.​
> 2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.​
> 3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.​*SOURCE*: *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*, A/RES/2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 entry into force 23 March 1976,​


[/indent]


			
				 International Covenant on Economic said:
			
		

> _*Article 12*_​
> 1. The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health.​
> *SOURCE*: *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*, A/RES/2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 entry into force 3 January 1976​


[/indent]
Health care is one of those issues that the Arab Palestinians DO NOT enjoy and the same Human Development Level as Israel.​
It seems that in ​
◈  Area "A" where the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control, the health and well-being are the responsibility of the Ramallah Government.  ​◈  Area "B" is a gray area wherein the Arab Palestinian civil control and partial security control - so goes the responsibility for health and well-being.​◈  Area "C" where the Israeli have full civil and security control, the health and well-being are the responsibility of the Jerusalem (Israeli) Government.  (NO QUESTION)  But how do the Israelis accomplish this task?​◈  The Gaza Strip, HAMAS claims control.​
​But medical services are one of those services where the patient can refuse care.  By Human Rights Law (International Covenant) and International Humanitarian Law (Hague Regulation), the International Community will undoubtedly hold Israel responsible since it is the most developed nation and the only functional government within the territory formerly under the Mandate (East of the Jordan River).  Theoretically, Human Rights and Humanitarian Concerns are outside political debate.  

It is my understanding that Israel DID NOT refuse the Arab Palestinians  COVID-19 Vaccine.  The Arab Palestinians DID NOT request COVID-19 Vaccine from Israel.                            

The question is, has this turned into a political football?
*



*​Most Respectfully,​R​


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: This is one of those "Gray Areas" in the law.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... What is a common theme in these articles is a presumption that Israel has some presumed obligation to provide medical services to the islamic terrorist enclaves which breed islamic terrorists who kill Israeli citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Hague Regulation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 43*. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to_ *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety*_*,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.​*SOURCE*: Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: *Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague,* 18 October 1907.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article 12*_​
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.​
> 2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.​
> 3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.​*SOURCE*: *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*, A/RES/2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 entry into force 23 March 1976,​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [/indent]
> 
> 
> 
> International Covenant on Economic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article 12*_​
> 1. The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health.​
> *SOURCE*: *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*, A/RES/2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 entry into force 3 January 1976​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [/indent]
> Health care is one of those issues that the Arab Palestinians DO NOT enjoy and the same Human Development Level as Israel.​
> It seems that in ​
> ◈  Area "A" where the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control, the health and well-being are the responsibility of the Ramallah Government.  ​◈  Area "B" is a gray area wherein the Arab Palestinian civil control and partial security control - so goes the responsibility for health and well-being.​◈  Area "C" where the Israeli have full civil and security control, the health and well-being are the responsibility of the Jerusalem (Israeli) Government.  (NO QUESTION)  But how do the Israelis accomplish this task?​◈  The Gaza Strip, HAMAS claims control.​
> ​But medical services are one of those services where the patient can refuse care.  By Human Rights Law (International Covenant) and International Humanitarian Law (Hague Regulation), the International Community will undoubtedly hold Israel responsible since it is the most developed nation and the only functional government within the territory formerly under the Mandate (East of the Jordan River).  Theoretically, Human Rights and Humanitarian Concerns are outside political debate.
> 
> It is my understanding that Israel DID NOT refuse the Arab Palestinians  COVID-19 Vaccine.  The Arab Palestinians DID NOT request COVID-19 Vaccine from Israel.
> 
> The question is, has this turned into a political football?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​Most Respectfully,​R​
Click to expand...

I suppose my focus was on the primary functions of government: to serve the governed and to provide for their health, safety and well being. The Abbas government has chosen to provide for the killers it creates to the detriment of the general population. I do make judgements about such matters. I think it's important to do so. Amidst the endless whining from the Pals and their pompous demands for statehood, their ''leadership'' refuses to perform the most basic functions of government, seemingly because the business of civil government infringes on their primary focus of managing a criminal / Islamic terrorist syndicate.


----------



## Hollie

With all that UNRWA welfare fraud money at stake, there’s a bit of a feeding frenzy taking place as players for the Abbas Emir’ship see a chance to have their personal fortunes made. 











						Palestinian Elections: Abbas faces ‘revolt’ over Fatah’s electoral list
					

Some Palestinians said on Saturday that the mounting tensions marked the beginning of an unprecedented mutiny against Abbas and the veteran Fatah leadership.




					m.jpost.com
				





Some Palestinians said on Saturday that the mounting tensions marked the beginning of an unprecedented mutiny against Abbas and the veteran Fatah leadership.

Several Fatah activists and prominent figures accused Abbas of excluding them from the faction’s official list. Some went as far as publicly denouncing Abbas as a “dictator” running Fatah and the PA as a one-man show.


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, this Islamic terrorist misfit was greeted with high praise by the misfits who see people like this as heroes. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/04/05/highest-paid-palestinian-terrorist-released-from-prison/
		


Arab Israeli terrorist Rushdi Hamdan Abu Mukh served 35 years in prison for his role in the 1984 abduction and murder of Israeli soldier Moshe Tamam.


----------



## Hollie

We in the west still refuse to hold the Pally’s accountable for the Islamic terrorist monsters they breed. President Trump had it right to cut off the money spigot. The US chose not to be an enabler of Islamic terrorism. 











						The Palestinian Authority's Financial Support for Terrorism Circumvents U.S. and Israeli Law
					

Payments will be granted via postal banks' ATM machines - The Palestinian Authority's Financial Support for Terrorism Circumvents U.S. and Israeli Law




					jcpa.org
				





*The Palestinian Authority’s Financial Support for Terrorism Circumvents U.S. and Israeli Law*

Yoni Ben Menachem
 March 25, 2021







Palestinian posters showing prisoners jailed by Israel for terrorist activities. (Screenshot, i24News, Israel)
The Palestinian government has decided to pay grants to terrorists and their families through the Palestinian postal banks to circumvent the Israeli prohibition on West Bank commercial banks’ involvement in terrorism-related activity.


----------



## Hollie

The former "ambassador" needs to be more precise with his terms. The heretical Shia sect has been a threat to sunni Islam since 632CE. 

Israel is a current threat because that nation has the "will" and the resources to crush any significant gee-had attack the Pally terrorists may launch. 

Fmr. Palestinian Ambassador to the U.N. Nasser Al-Qidwa: Israel Is Our Main Threat – Not Iran


----------



## Hollie

Gee,, whiz. Devastating to think that the Emir of the Pally occupied territories and his Islamic terrorist syndicate have had less welfare fun money this past year. 










						Palestine Hasn't Received Financial Aid From Any Arab Country For Over A Year, Says Palestinian PM
					

"In addition, the US has suspended its financial support, which amounted to $500 million," he said.




					swarajyamag.com
				




Palestine has not received financial aid from any Arab country for more than one year, Prime Minister Mohammed Ishtaye said.

"Due to lack of Arab funds, the deficiency in the Palestinian budget climbed to $1 billion," Xinhua news agency quoted Ishtaye as saying at a press conference on Wednesday (7 April).


----------



## Hollie

The first statement in the linked article is critical of Emir Abbas but it applies to all of the Islamic terrorists who have / have had control of the territories occupied by the Pals.  When your leaders are gee-had screeching misfits who’s only leadership goals are Jew killing and UNRWA welfare fraud theft, it’s a case where you get what you wanted so don’t raise complaints about your lot in life. 












						Palestinian Elections: Cast a ballot for the killer, terrorist - opinion
					

Abbas has taken no initiative, placed his head in the sand to the new realities of the region, and has done nothing to make the lives of his people better or promise them a brighter future.




					m.jpost.com
				




Abbas has taken no initiative, placed his head in the sand to the new realities of the region, and has done nothing to make the lives of his people better or promise them a brighter future.


----------



## Hollie

It would be easy to rail against the EU for giving an Islamo-high five to a vocal Islamic terrorist supporter / enabler but the current clown masquerading as president of this country has opened the welfare spigot to hose down the Pal-Arab terrorists Laila Ghannam is enamored with. 










						EU Praise Palestinian Leader Who Promotes Terror Attacks - The Jewish Voice
					

By Yakir Benzion, United With Israel The European Union’s office devoted to the Palestinians marked International Women’s Day by making a video for its Arabic Facebook page singing the praises of Ramallah area governor Laila Ghannam, who has a long history of anti-Israel vitriol and praise for...




					thejewishvoice.com
				




The European Union’s office devoted to the Palestinians marked International Women’s Day by making a video for its Arabic Facebook page singing the praises of Ramallah area governor Laila Ghannam, who has a long history of anti-Israel vitriol and praise for Palestinian terror attacks against innocent Israelis.


----------



## Hollie

I was hoping the senate republicans would step up and require the Biden democrats stop the Pally terrorist welfare payments. 







__





						Republican Senators Oppose Palestinian Aid in Letter to Blinken
					





					www.msn.com
				





A group of Republican senators sent a letter to the Biden administration urging it to halt aid to the Palestinians until several conditions can be met to ensure the support isn’t going to terrorists.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Photos were circulated of the sheikh with his printed fatwa, on which you can see the logos of various Palestinian groups including Hamas, the PFLP and Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah.

(full article online)









						Palestinian fatwa: It is permitted to kill anyone who sells land to a Jew
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It's Islamic terrorism as usual in the enclaves supported and financed by international welfare. 


*The terrorists hoping to be elected to the Palestinian parliament*









						The terrorists hoping to be elected to the Palestinian parliament | PMW Analysis
					

According to lists published by the PA Central Elections Commission, among the parties set to participate in the upcoming Palestinian Authority elections two are parties that are designated by both the United States and the European Union as terror organizations




					www.palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Apr 11, 2021
According to lists published by the PA Central Elections Commission, among the parties set to participate in the upcoming Palestinian Authority elections two are parties that are designated by both the United States and the European Union as terror organizations: Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Ahhh, more on that phony war on terror.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, more on that phony war on terror.
Click to expand...

Indeed, more of your hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I have hope that common sense will prevail and US tax dollars will not be used to fund Pal Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, many of the gee-had groups vying for control of the UNRWA welfare fraud money have similar, anti-Israel positions. It seems they largely just parrot the Jew hating script.




*11 PA political parties express their rejection of Israel's right to exist in their logos*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 14, 2021









						11 PA political parties express their rejection of Israel's right to exist in their logos | PMW Analysis
					

As Israel celebrates its 73rd birthday, nearly 1/3 of the 36 Palestinian parties running in the upcoming PA elections have logos that include the PA map that erases Israel, presenting all of Israel as “Palestine.”




					palwatch.org
				




*As Israel celebrates its 73rd birthday, nearly 1/3 of the 36 Palestinian parties running in the upcoming PA elections have logos that include the PA map that erases Israel, presenting all of Israel as “Palestine.”*





The logos that are being used by the 36 parties in the PA parliamentary elections are a window to aspects of Palestinian ideology and goals. 11 of the lists include  in their logos the PA map of “Palestine” that erases all of the State of Israel and includes it in “Palestine.” The two dominant Palestinian political movements, Fatah of Mahmoud Abbas that is the major party ruling the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas, that rules the Gaza Strip, include the map of “Palestine” that erases Israel. Fatah's logo also includes two rifles and a grenade, indicating that the goal of liberation of “Palestine,” i.e., the destruction of Israel, will be through military means. The Future party of Muhammad Dahlan -- a Fatah breakaway - likewise uses the map.
The following are the names of the 11 political parties and logos that include the PA map of “Palestine” that erases Israel and includes it in “Palestine.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

palestinian cookbook


Hollie said:


> As you might expect, many of the gee-had groups vying for control of the UNRWA welfare fraud money have similar, anti-Israel positions. It seems they largely just parrot the Jew hating script.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *11 PA political parties express their rejection of Israel's right to exist in their logos*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 14, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11 PA political parties express their rejection of Israel's right to exist in their logos | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> As Israel celebrates its 73rd birthday, nearly 1/3 of the 36 Palestinian parties running in the upcoming PA elections have logos that include the PA map that erases Israel, presenting all of Israel as “Palestine.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *As Israel celebrates its 73rd birthday, nearly 1/3 of the 36 Palestinian parties running in the upcoming PA elections have logos that include the PA map that erases Israel, presenting all of Israel as “Palestine.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The logos that are being used by the 36 parties in the PA parliamentary elections are a window to aspects of Palestinian ideology and goals. 11 of the lists include  in their logos the PA map of “Palestine” that erases all of the State of Israel and includes it in “Palestine.” The two dominant Palestinian political movements, Fatah of Mahmoud Abbas that is the major party ruling the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas, that rules the Gaza Strip, include the map of “Palestine” that erases Israel. Fatah's logo also includes two rifles and a grenade, indicating that the goal of liberation of “Palestine,” i.e., the destruction of Israel, will be through military means. The Future party of Muhammad Dahlan -- a Fatah breakaway - likewise uses the map.
> The following are the names of the 11 political parties and logos that include the PA map of “Palestine” that erases Israel and includes it in “Palestine.”


OK, so?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> palestinian cookbook
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you might expect, many of the gee-had groups vying for control of the UNRWA welfare fraud money have similar, anti-Israel positions. It seems they largely just parrot the Jew hating script.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *11 PA political parties express their rejection of Israel's right to exist in their logos*
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 14, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11 PA political parties express their rejection of Israel's right to exist in their logos | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> As Israel celebrates its 73rd birthday, nearly 1/3 of the 36 Palestinian parties running in the upcoming PA elections have logos that include the PA map that erases Israel, presenting all of Israel as “Palestine.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *As Israel celebrates its 73rd birthday, nearly 1/3 of the 36 Palestinian parties running in the upcoming PA elections have logos that include the PA map that erases Israel, presenting all of Israel as “Palestine.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The logos that are being used by the 36 parties in the PA parliamentary elections are a window to aspects of Palestinian ideology and goals. 11 of the lists include  in their logos the PA map of “Palestine” that erases all of the State of Israel and includes it in “Palestine.” The two dominant Palestinian political movements, Fatah of Mahmoud Abbas that is the major party ruling the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas, that rules the Gaza Strip, include the map of “Palestine” that erases Israel. Fatah's logo also includes two rifles and a grenade, indicating that the goal of liberation of “Palestine,” i.e., the destruction of Israel, will be through military means. The Future party of Muhammad Dahlan -- a Fatah breakaway - likewise uses the map.
> The following are the names of the 11 political parties and logos that include the PA map of “Palestine” that erases Israel and includes it in “Palestine.”
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
Click to expand...

That was a deep, thought provoking response.


----------



## Hollie

It’s difficult to envision Joe Biden doing anything about Pal Islamic terrorism other than throw taxpayer money at the problem.

Fortunately, the inertia of history is already doing more to solove the Pally problem than summits and roadmaps to nowhere. Arab states in the region are seeking alliances with Israel that are mutually beneficial. The Pals are being marginalized as they wallow in self pity and increasingly attempt to survive on diminishing welfare / handouts. 


*Once Again, ‘Politico**’ Ignores Palestinian Rejectionism and Palestinian Terror*










						Once Again, ‘Politico’ Ignores Palestinian Rejectionism and Palestinian Terror
					

Israeli forces and medics gather at the scene of a Palestinian terrorist attack near Maale Adumim in the West Bank, …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





“Joe Biden,” a Politico headline blared on April 6, 2021, “is not planning to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” This may or may not be true. But what is clear is that Politico isn’t interested in providing readers with the truth about the conflict.

President Biden, reporter Nahal Toosi notes, has yet to name a special envoy to focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And “aside from taking a few small steps” such as “restoring some modest aid to the Palestinians,” Biden is “signaling that the conflict is simply not a priority.”


----------



## Hollie

This may be the excuse Emir Abbas has planned to use as a way to avoid all the fuss surrounding elections. A dictatorship by its very nature has no need for elections. 










						Palestinian officials: No elections without participation of East Jerusalem
					

With Israel unlikely to allow election in city, observers say Abbas hopes to use refusal as an excuse to pull back from vote




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




With Israel unlikely to allow election in city, observers say Abbas hopes to use refusal as an excuse to pull back from vote


----------



## Hollie

Now here is an interesting idea. 










						Terrorists could lose citizenship unless they return 'pay-for-slay' money
					

The proposed bill will take away citizenship from terrorists who were jailed and received a monetary reward from the Palestinian Authority.




					m.jpost.com
				




Following the release of IDF soldier Moshe Tamam's killer, a bill has been signed on Wednesday by 42 Knesset members to strip citizenship from Israeli residents or citizens who have served in prison for an act of terrorism and have received monetary support from the Palestinian Authority, _The Jerusalem Post_'s sister newspaper _Maariv_ reported.


----------



## Hollie

The religious roots of the Pal-Arab Moslem perpetuated conflict become apparent when they use their god to cite a perceived to entitlement for land theft and Jew killing.





*Why are Palestinians who sell land to Jews excommunicated?*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 16, 2021
*Allah told “all of humanity” that “Palestine”
is “a pure right of its Muslim owners,”
- Shari’ah judge on PA TV*




*“The land of Palestine is entrusted to all the Muslims, and Allah will demand an accounting from anyone who relinquishes a grain of soil from its pure and blessed land” - Head of the Supreme Muslim Council and head preacher of the Al-Aqsa Mosque*
*After Jews purchased buildings in Silwan, Jerusalem, local Arabs called to punish the Arab sellers, citing the PA’s religious prohibition*
*Fatah official: “Whoever sells real estate to the enemy… is considered a traitor to the religion, the homeland, and the people, and all those who commit this must be punished”*
*PA Grand Mufti: “Whoever has abandoned his land, facilitated its transfer… has certainly left the Muslim community… [he] and the mediators will not be buried in the Muslims’ cemeteries, will not be prayed for, will not be purified, and will not be wrapped in shrouds”*
*Official PA daily highlights calls to “excommunicate” and “put on trial” Arabs who sold property to Jews*


----------



## Hollie

One of the luxuries embraced by a dictator ruling an Islamic fear society is that you have the means and methods available to crush an opposing view. 

Maybe if Biden gives Abbas more welfare money, things will change?  







__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				




Fadi Elsalameen, a well-known Palestinian-American activist originally from the town of as-Samu, a village south of Hebron, has apparently been a thorn in the side of Abbas and senior Fatah party officials for his high-profile online postings condemning the PA for systemic corruption.


----------



## Hollie

It seems like a pretty simple concept: incentivize Islamic terrorism and Islamic terrorism will continue.











						State Department Report Acknowledges Palestinian Authority Payments to Terrorists as Biden Administration Seeks to Resume Aid
					

The US State Department building in Washington, DC. Photo: Reuters / Joshua Roberts. The US State Department has acknowledged that …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




The US State Department has acknowledged that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has not “terminated payments for acts of terrorism,” according to a non-public report to Congress seen by The Algemeiner, as the Biden administration has said it intends to restart aid to the PA cut by former President Donald Trump.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

When a dysfunctional, Islamic terrorist enclave promotes as heroes their home grown psychopaths doing the bidding of their Allah god, the results of predictable. 


*PA: Munich Olympics massacre planners presented “spectacular aspects of pride, glory, and loyalty”*

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 18, 2021
The PA never tires of celebrating their most lethal terror attacks against Israel and praising the “masterminds” behind them. One such attack is the murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Pallywood.


----------



## Hollie

The warring Islamic terrorist tribes occupying their mini-caliphates


----------



## Hollie

The ‘Palestinian Village’ of Susya is Neither Palestinian Nor a Village
					

Take a look at this recent photo published in the  Financial Times. Financial Times screenshot. Photo: UK Media Watch.   …




					www.algemeiner.com
				








The photo is quite representative of U.K. media coverage of events in a place they’re calling “Khirbet Susya.” This area is near the Jewish settlement of Susya – a historically Jewish town in the southern Hebron hills.

The _Guardian, Independent,_ and_ Telegraph _have all covered the story, which has been framed as an attempt by Israeli authorities to kick hundreds of Palestinians off ‘their land’ in this “Palestinian village”.

Much like the FT’s characterization of the EU-funded concrete structure covered by tarp in the staged photo as a “tent” (look at the concrete by the girl’s feet), the claim that the area is “Palestinian” and owned by local “villagers” is – according to courts who examined claims by the petitioners (the Nawajah family) – fictitious.


----------



## Hollie

Supporting the Pally gee-had is a consequence of showering Islamic terrorists with boatloads of western welfare dollars. The Pally terrorists tell us in no uncertain terms where the money goes but we in the west continue to shower them with welfare. 












						It's time to terminate the PA’s terrorist payment program
					

A 2018 law that requires Israel to deduct the cost of the terrorists’ salaries from the tax revenues it collects monthly for the PA has not deterred the PA from continuing its despicable program.




					m.jpost.com
				




Ten years after the horrific attack on the Fogel family, the killers are enjoying a pay raise courtesy of the PA, which has increased the payments it makes to them by 50%. According to Palestinian Media Watch, the Awads, who are serving life sentences in an Israeli prison, have received $1,203 monthly. With the raise, they will now get $1,806 per month. In the ten years since they murdered the Fogels, the terrorists have each received over $100,000.


----------



## Hollie

There is a pervasive, continuing theme with regard to the Pals occupying the West Bank and Gaza and that is; they’re helpless and incapable of managing what we generally call a functioning society.

It always falls to others, usually, the _Great Satan™ _to manage their affairs and to be blamed for their failures. 












						Analysis: Why Joe Biden will not change Palestinian lives
					

Pledges by the Biden administration to change course in the Israel-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There is a pervasive, continuing theme with regard to the Pals occupying the West Bank and Gaza and that is; they’re helpless and incapable of managing what we generally call a functioning society.
> 
> It always falls to others, usually, the _Great Satan™ _to manage their affairs and to be blamed for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Why Joe Biden will not change Palestinian lives
> 
> 
> Pledges by the Biden administration to change course in the Israel-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.





Hollie said:


> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.


That is true. Biden has been kissing Israel's ass for a long time.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  US Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: "The *Taylor Force Act* is an Act of the U.S. Congress to stop American economic aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) until the PA ceases paying stipends through the Palestinian Authority Martyr's Fund to individuals who commit acts of terrorism and to the families of deceased terrorists."



Hollie said:


> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.





P F Tinmore said:


> That is true. Biden has been kissing Israel's ass for a long time.


*(COMMENT)*

President Biden has only been in office for 4 months. 

I am hoping that the White House does not provide taxpayer aid in contravention to the Taylor Force Act and in violation of the *1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism* as a support tool in combating terrorism.

*(QUESTION)*

Is P F Tinmore advocating that the White House violate both domestic and international law?






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Is P F Tinmore advocating that the White House violate both domestic and international law?


The US already violates domestic and international law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is P F Tinmore advocating that the White House violate both domestic and international law?
> 
> 
> 
> The US already violates domestic and international law.
Click to expand...

Why should the US fund Pally Islamic terrorism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> "The *Taylor Force Act* is an Act of the U.S. Congress to stop American economic aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) until the PA ceases paying stipends through the Palestinian Authority Martyr's Fund


These payments are a constitutional requirement.

*Article 22*


Social, health, disability and retirement insurance shall be regulated by law.
Maintaining the welfare of families of martyrs, prisoners of war, the injured and the disabled is a duty that shall be regulated by law. The National Authority shall guarantee these persons education, health and social insurance.









						2003 Amended Basic Law
					

2003 Amended Basic Law The Amended Basic Law. Ramallah: 2003. Bir Zeit Institute of Law: The Palestinian Legal and Judicial System “al-Muqtafi”. accessed 13 December 2007. Issued in Ram…




					www.palestinianbasiclaw.org
				




Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a pervasive, continuing theme with regard to the Pals occupying the West Bank and Gaza and that is; they’re helpless and incapable of managing what we generally call a functioning society.
> 
> It always falls to others, usually, the _Great Satan™ _to manage their affairs and to be blamed for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Why Joe Biden will not change Palestinian lives
> 
> 
> Pledges by the Biden administration to change course in the Israel-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Biden has been kissing Israel's ass for a long time.
Click to expand...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?



They should be free to pay their terrorists all they want.
The civilized world should be free to cut off 100% of their welfare payments.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a pervasive, continuing theme with regard to the Pals occupying the West Bank and Gaza and that is; they’re helpless and incapable of managing what we generally call a functioning society.
> 
> It always falls to others, usually, the _Great Satan™ _to manage their affairs and to be blamed for their failures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Why Joe Biden will not change Palestinian lives
> 
> 
> Pledges by the Biden administration to change course in the Israel-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pledges by the new US administration to change course in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unlikely to materialise, analysts say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is true. Biden has been kissing Israel's ass for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with the forum topic.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The *Taylor Force Act* is an Act of the U.S. Congress to stop American economic aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) until the PA ceases paying stipends through the Palestinian Authority Martyr's Fund
> 
> 
> 
> These payments are a constitutional requirement.
> 
> *Article 22*
> 
> 
> Social, health, disability and retirement insurance shall be regulated by law.
> Maintaining the welfare of families of martyrs, prisoners of war, the injured and the disabled is a duty that shall be regulated by law. The National Authority shall guarantee these persons education, health and social insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law
> 
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law The Amended Basic Law. Ramallah: 2003. Bir Zeit Institute of Law: The Palestinian Legal and Judicial System “al-Muqtafi”. accessed 13 December 2007. Issued in Ram…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palestinianbasiclaw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?
Click to expand...

So.... the Pally's have institutionalized human degradation and the allowance of murder / suicide. 

Sounds like the basis for a dysfunctional Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The *Taylor Force Act* is an Act of the U.S. Congress to stop American economic aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) until the PA ceases paying stipends through the Palestinian Authority Martyr's Fund
> 
> 
> 
> These payments are a constitutional requirement.
> 
> *Article 22*
> 
> 
> Social, health, disability and retirement insurance shall be regulated by law.
> Maintaining the welfare of families of martyrs, prisoners of war, the injured and the disabled is a duty that shall be regulated by law. The National Authority shall guarantee these persons education, health and social insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law
> 
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law The Amended Basic Law. Ramallah: 2003. Bir Zeit Institute of Law: The Palestinian Legal and Judicial System “al-Muqtafi”. accessed 13 December 2007. Issued in Ram…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palestinianbasiclaw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.... the Pally's have institutionalized human degradation and the allowance of murder / suicide.
> 
> Sounds like the basis for a dysfunctional Cult.
Click to expand...

Every country honors their veterans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The *Taylor Force Act* is an Act of the U.S. Congress to stop American economic aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) until the PA ceases paying stipends through the Palestinian Authority Martyr's Fund
> 
> 
> 
> These payments are a constitutional requirement.
> 
> *Article 22*
> 
> 
> Social, health, disability and retirement insurance shall be regulated by law.
> Maintaining the welfare of families of martyrs, prisoners of war, the injured and the disabled is a duty that shall be regulated by law. The National Authority shall guarantee these persons education, health and social insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law
> 
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law The Amended Basic Law. Ramallah: 2003. Bir Zeit Institute of Law: The Palestinian Legal and Judicial System “al-Muqtafi”. accessed 13 December 2007. Issued in Ram…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palestinianbasiclaw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.... the Pally's have institutionalized human degradation and the allowance of murder / suicide.
> 
> Sounds like the basis for a dysfunctional Cult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every country honors their veterans.
Click to expand...

The Islamic terrorist misfits aren’t military.

Most everyone is repulsed by acts of Islamic terrorist misfit killers. Nor everyone, obviously.

You can still flail your Poms Poms for the misfits you adore.


----------



## Hollie

it’s rewarding to see that some congressional republicans are stepping up to the plate and will hopefully challenge something called the “Biden administration” with regard to showering the Pally terrorists with taxpayer money. 











						Biden’s new slate of aid to Palestinians comes under intense scrutiny
					

Several pro-Israel groups, Israeli officials and Congress Republicans step up efforts to question administration’s plans to resume funding to Palestinians




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Several pro-Israel groups, Israeli officials and Congress Republicans step up efforts to question administration’s plans to resume funding to Palestinians


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:   Veteran were once in a "Combatant Status," which only in international armed conflicts (*IAC*) *(**see introductory note to Chapter 33**)*.

It differs with your definition of Palestine (River to the Sea).



P F Tinmore said:


> Every country honors their veterans.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no terrorist organization in Palestine (your definition) that would generate veterans status.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:   Veteran were once in a "Combatant Status," which only in international armed conflicts (*IAC*) *(**see introductory note to Chapter 33**)*.
> 
> It differs with your definition of Palestine (River to the Sea).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every country honors their veterans.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no terrorist organization in Palestine (your definition) that would generate veterans status.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More name calling.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Nothing in the Basic Law (Palestine) requires the US to violate the Taylor Force Act of the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.



P F Tinmore said:


> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Nothing in the Basic Law (Palestine) requires the US to violate the Taylor Force Act of the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> More name calling


You’re embarrassing yourself.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  "Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence to achieve political aims. It is used in this regard primarily to refer to violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants."


Wikipedia




*Article I • Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*​


P F Tinmore said:


> Should the Palestinians violate their own law to satisfy foreign name callers?





RoccoR said:


> Nothing in the Basic Law (Palestine) requires the US to violate the Taylor Force Act of the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.





P F Tinmore said:


> More name calling.


*(COMMENT)*

Terrorism is a label that we assign to those entities that use criminal behaviors to achieve political goals and objectives.  It is a broad label and spans the actions from:

◈  the 1970 simultaneously hijacking of three jetliners shortly after they took off from European airports,​◈  to the attack on Israeli Olympic team members at the 1972 Summer Games in Munich,​◈  to the Avivim school bus attack on children,​◈  to the attack by four heavily armed actors that hijacked the ship in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Alexandria,​◈  to the phenomenon of suicide bombings perpetrated by various Palestinian actors,​◈  to the kidnap and murder of Israeli Teenagers,​◈  to the use of vehicular homicide, the the marketplace stabbings of patrons.​◈  to the mob action along a border barrier,​etc, etc, etc,​​In the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinians and all those Arab Palestinians to incite or advocate violence and specifically target innocent civilians, it is the exact word that describes the Arab Palestinian actions.  It is not "name calling" as you suggest but a chosen word that criticisms the actions and the position Arab Palestinians demonstrate and are maintaining.
​_Just My Thought,_​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Terrorism is a label that we assign to those entities that use criminal behaviors to achieve political goals and objectives. It is a broad label and spans the actions from:


Is self defense a criminal act?

Terrorism is the war if the poor.
War is the terrorism of the rich.

To the rich fuckers, this is not terrorosm.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Terrorism is the war if the poor.
> War is the terrorism of the rich.


Did you steal those slogans from the prayer leader at your madrassah?

Such pompous rambling.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Supporting Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  "You are making a broad excuse for criminal behaviors incited by the leadership if the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP).



RoccoR said:


> Terrorism is a label that we assign to those entities that use criminal behaviors to achieve political goals and objectives. It is a broad label and spans the actions from:





P F Tinmore said:


> Is self defense a criminal act?


*(COMMENT)*

None of the things I've mentioned can be considered "self-defense."  Indiscriminate rocket and mortar is a violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).




P F Tinmore said:


> Terrorism is the war if the poor.
> War is the terrorism of the rich.
> To the rich fuckers, this is not terrorosm.


*(COMMENT)*

Using the class structure as a justification for HoAP activity and other Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, attempting to violate Customary and IHL.

_Just My Thought,_




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  "You are making a broad excuse for criminal behaviors incited by the leadership if the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP).
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is a label that we assign to those entities that use criminal behaviors to achieve political goals and objectives. It is a broad label and spans the actions from:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is self defense a criminal act?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of the things I've mentioned can be considered "self-defense."  Indiscriminate rocket and mortar is a violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is the war if the poor.
> War is the terrorism of the rich.
> To the rich fuckers, this is not terrorosm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Using the class structure as a justification for HoAP activity and other Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, attempting to violate Customary and IHL.
> 
> _Just My Thought,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Was name calling your major at university?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Was name calling your major at university?



Was bomb building yours?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  "You are making a broad excuse for criminal behaviors incited by the leadership if the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP).
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is a label that we assign to those entities that use criminal behaviors to achieve political goals and objectives. It is a broad label and spans the actions from:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is self defense a criminal act?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of the things I've mentioned can be considered "self-defense."  Indiscriminate rocket and mortar is a violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is the war if the poor.
> War is the terrorism of the rich.
> To the rich fuckers, this is not terrorosm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Using the class structure as a justification for HoAP activity and other Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, attempting to violate Customary and IHL.
> 
> _Just My Thought,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was name calling your major at university?
Click to expand...

It's a shame that you choose to spam the thread with such nonsense.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Is self defense a criminal act?



Criminal acts can't be excused as 'self defense'.

The real question - does an attack specifically targeting uninvolved people,
with proven result of escalation of the conflict to certain detriment to one's side and,
*rather than a response aimed at ceasing confrontation* - suffice an act of self defense?





P F Tinmore said:


> Terrorism is the war if the poor.
> War is the terrorism of the rich.
> 
> To the rich fuckers, this is not terrorosm.



This double speak is the mother of all moral corruption.
Because your judgement of the act is based on the person's bank account.

If we followed your twisted value system,
a homeless raping a woman would be a hero,
while the rich guy knocking him out the criminal.

Hence Islamists are losing - such corruption can only lead to defeat and humiliation.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Israel, West Bank, and Gaza - United States Department of State
					






					www.state.gov
				




IN THIS SECTION
*Israel, West Bank, and Gaza*
*Israel
Overview:*  Israel was a committed counterterrorism partner in 2019, closely coordinating with the United States on a range of counterterrorism initiatives.  Israel and the United States held numerous interagency counterterrorism dialogues to discuss the broad range of threats in the Middle East and to determine areas of collaboration to address these challenges.  This included the annual meeting of the U.S.-Israel Joint Counterterrorism Group, which was launched in the early 1990s and is our longest-standing strategic counterterrorism dialogue.
Israel faced threats from the north from Hizballah and along the northeastern frontier from Hizballah and other Iran-backed groups, including about 150,000 rockets aimed at Israel.  Israeli officials expressed concern that Iran was supplying Hizballah with advanced weapons systems and technologies, as well as assisting the group in creating infrastructure that would permit it to indigenously produce rockets, missiles, and drones to threaten Israel from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, or Yemen.

To the south, Israel faced threats from terrorist organizations including Hamas, Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and ISIS-Sinai.  Rocket attacks originating from Gaza resulted in four deaths and dozens of injuries in 2019.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Biden administration seems unconcerned about islamic terrorist killers who have taken the lives of Americans. The Biden administration wants to reward islamic terrorists with more welfare money in spite of the Taylor Force Act. 











						Americans killed by Palestinian Arabs: The forgotten terror victims
					

How many more Yom Hazikarons will come and go before any of the Palestinian killers of Americans finally face American justice?. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




Since 1968, a total of 146 U.S. citizens have been murdered, and more than 200 wounded, in Palestinian Arab terrorist attacks. Most were tourists or college students spending a summer, six months, or a year of study in Israel—like my daughter, Alisa. Others were dual American-Israeli citizens living in Israel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



She is such an idiot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


The Arab-Moslem occupation of Jerusalem must end.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist gee-had instigators in Gaza may not want to publicly take responsibility for rocket attacks aimed at Israel but that will not prevent Israel from responding to those attacks.  





Hamas urges Gaza terror groups to stand by to fire more rockets 

Rulers of enclave don’t take direct responsibility for weekend barrages on Israel, but call for ‘our noble resistance in Gaza to keep their fingers on the trigger’


----------



## Hollie

Sounds like it's time for the Pals to round up whatever children they can find and throw them on the bonfire of hatred and death they call the gee-had. 

*Fatah seeks to incite violence in Jerusalem*





__





						Fatah seeks to incite violence in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
					

As riots rage in the capital, Fatah incites to “defend Jerusalem with our lives” by recycling Abbas’ call for “Ribat” – religious conflict over land claimed to be Islamic




					palwatch.org
				





The post opens with the text:



> “The message of [PA] President of the State of Palestine Mahmoud Abbas to our people in Jerusalem – we will defend Jerusalem with our lives. Long live Fatah, the defender of our land, our holy sites, and our people.”
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture, April 23, 2021]


----------



## Hollie

One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label. The Islamic terrorists “hero” was involved in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier in 1984.

Fortunately, his “productive” years as an Islamic terrorist have been removed. 










						Official Palestinian TV greets released Palestinian terrorist with ‘pride, glory and elation’
					

Rushdi Abu Mokh served 35 years in Israel for his role in the 1984 kidnapping and murder of IDF soldier Moshe Tamam.The post Official Palestinian TV greets released Palestinian terrorist




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




The Palestinian Authority’s official broadcaster earlier this month greeted released Palestinian terrorist Rushdi Abu Mokh as a hero and a “model of sacrifice.”

The segment aired on _Palestine_ _TV_ on April 8, 2021, upon Abu Mokh’s completion of a 35-year sentence in Israel for his role in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier Moshe Tamam in 1984.

“And now, with pride, glory, dignity and elation, but with humility as well, let us meet one of the outstanding people of our nation, and a family that is a model of sacrifice, defiance and patience,” said the show’s host by way of introducing Abu Mokh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label. The Islamic terrorists “hero” was involved in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier in 1984.
> 
> Fortunately, his “productive” years as an Islamic terrorist have been removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official Palestinian TV greets released Palestinian terrorist with ‘pride, glory and elation’
> 
> 
> Rushdi Abu Mokh served 35 years in Israel for his role in the 1984 kidnapping and murder of IDF soldier Moshe Tamam.The post Official Palestinian TV greets released Palestinian terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.clevelandjewishnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority’s official broadcaster earlier this month greeted released Palestinian terrorist Rushdi Abu Mokh as a hero and a “model of sacrifice.”
> 
> The segment aired on _Palestine_ _TV_ on April 8, 2021, upon Abu Mokh’s completion of a 35-year sentence in Israel for his role in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier Moshe Tamam in 1984.
> 
> “And now, with pride, glory, dignity and elation, but with humility as well, let us meet one of the outstanding people of our nation, and a family that is a model of sacrifice, defiance and patience,” said the show’s host by way of introducing Abu Mokh.


What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label. The Islamic terrorists “hero” was involved in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier in 1984.
> 
> Fortunately, his “productive” years as an Islamic terrorist have been removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official Palestinian TV greets released Palestinian terrorist with ‘pride, glory and elation’
> 
> 
> Rushdi Abu Mokh served 35 years in Israel for his role in the 1984 kidnapping and murder of IDF soldier Moshe Tamam.The post Official Palestinian TV greets released Palestinian terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.clevelandjewishnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority’s official broadcaster earlier this month greeted released Palestinian terrorist Rushdi Abu Mokh as a hero and a “model of sacrifice.”
> 
> The segment aired on _Palestine_ _TV_ on April 8, 2021, upon Abu Mokh’s completion of a 35-year sentence in Israel for his role in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier Moshe Tamam in 1984.
> 
> “And now, with pride, glory, dignity and elation, but with humility as well, let us meet one of the outstanding people of our nation, and a family that is a model of sacrifice, defiance and patience,” said the show’s host by way of introducing Abu Mokh.
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...

You're angry and emotive which caused you to lash out with an irrelevant comment.


----------



## Hollie

I suspect that no one is surprised the Emir of Abbas'istan is going to hedge his bets about elections. Ultimately, .Mahmoud may have decided that he has a few more years of reasonably good health and enough well paid loyalists to survive any uprising by pitchfork wielding mobs.   









						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




*Fatah lays the groundwork for canceling the PA elections*
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Apr 26, 2021

*To create an excuse to cancel the PA elections, Fatah has set two preconditions Israel can’t possibly agree to:*
*Imprisoned terrorists should be allowed to vote*
*Voting should also take place in Jerusalem*


Fatah, the party of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has laid the foundation stones to cancel the first Palestinian elections to be held in over 15 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I suspect that no one is surprised the Emir of Abbas'istan is going to hedge his bets about elections. Ultimately, .Mahmoud may have decided that he has a few more years of reasonably good health and enough well paid loyalists to survive any uprising by pitchfork wielding mobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah lays the groundwork for canceling the PA elections*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Apr 26, 2021
> 
> *To create an excuse to cancel the PA elections, Fatah has set two preconditions Israel can’t possibly agree to:*
> *Imprisoned terrorists should be allowed to vote*
> *Voting should also take place in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> Fatah, the party of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has laid the foundation stones to cancel the first Palestinian elections to be held in over 15 years.


Israel should call his bluff.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that no one is surprised the Emir of Abbas'istan is going to hedge his bets about elections. Ultimately, .Mahmoud may have decided that he has a few more years of reasonably good health and enough well paid loyalists to survive any uprising by pitchfork wielding mobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah lays the groundwork for canceling the PA elections*
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Apr 26, 2021
> 
> *To create an excuse to cancel the PA elections, Fatah has set two preconditions Israel can’t possibly agree to:*
> *Imprisoned terrorists should be allowed to vote*
> *Voting should also take place in Jerusalem*
> 
> 
> Fatah, the party of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has laid the foundation stones to cancel the first Palestinian elections to be held in over 15 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel should call his bluff.
Click to expand...

Anything in a youtube video?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.  

*IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
*THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.



Hollie said:


> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...





P F Tinmore said:


> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.


*(COMMENT)*

*YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.  

Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.

*Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.

*S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).

Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.

I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.

*OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,





*Most Respectfully,*
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
Click to expand...

Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
Click to expand...


link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
Click to expand...


*
Thay are still in the invasion phase. *

Sounds awful!!!

Which country did they invade?
Which one are they still invading?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
Click to expand...










						Palestine’s Right to Defend Itself
					

Ibrahim Sharqieh argues that Israel's self defense card has run out, and that Palestine too has the right to defend itself from the brutality and violence of Israeli forces, which have led to a death toll of almost 100 people in the past few days alone. He then asserts that the U.S. needs to...




					www.brookings.edu


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.


*(COMMENT)

YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.

Nice duck. Was it "terrorism" for the US to attack Britain in 1812?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine’s Right to Defend Itself
> 
> 
> Ibrahim Sharqieh argues that Israel's self defense card has run out, and that Palestine too has the right to defend itself from the brutality and violence of Israeli forces, which have led to a death toll of almost 100 people in the past few days alone. He then asserts that the U.S. needs to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
Click to expand...


_Israel has long used illegal tactics of collective punishment in Gaza, effectively laying siege to an area home to 1.7 million people while periodically shelling homes and schools,  _

If only your terrorist buddies would stop using homes and schools to stage terror attacks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Nice duck. Was it "terrorism" for the US to attack Britain in 1812?



Obviously, you don’t see that as a laughable, utterly preposterous attempt at comparison.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine’s Right to Defend Itself
> 
> 
> Ibrahim Sharqieh argues that Israel's self defense card has run out, and that Palestine too has the right to defend itself from the brutality and violence of Israeli forces, which have led to a death toll of almost 100 people in the past few days alone. He then asserts that the U.S. needs to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
Click to expand...



July 17, 2014


_Jerusalem (AFP) - The UN agency for Palestinian refugees UNRWA said Thursday it was investigating after finding 20 rockets hidden in one of its vacant schools in the Gaza Strip.
It condemned the incident as a "flagrant violation" of international law and said the rockets had been removed and the "relative parties" informed.
"Yesterday, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered approximately 20 rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip," the agency said in a statement.

"UNRWA strongly condemns the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations," it continued._


UNRWA investigates after rockets found in Gaza school (yahoo.com)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine’s Right to Defend Itself
> 
> 
> Ibrahim Sharqieh argues that Israel's self defense card has run out, and that Palestine too has the right to defend itself from the brutality and violence of Israeli forces, which have led to a death toll of almost 100 people in the past few days alone. He then asserts that the U.S. needs to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
Click to expand...



_A television reporter from the Finnish Helsingin Sanomat confirmed Friday that Hamas has been firing rockets out of the Al-Shifa Hospital.

The reporter, who was not named in the television segment shot on-site at Gaza City’s main hospital, said a rocket was launched “right in the back the parking lot” of the hospital at 2 a.m. on Friday morning.


“Really, it happened right in the area, the sound of it was really loud,” she said, confirming longstanding Israeli claims that Hamas is committing war crimes in the Gaza Strip by shooting from civilian concentrations, medical centers and other humanitarian institutions._



Finnish TV: Rockets from Gaza hospital | The Times of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
Click to expand...

To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.  









						No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
					

[In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s




					www.jadaliyya.com
				



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> after finding 20 rockets hidden in one of its *vacant schools* in the Gaza Strip.


Indeed, not in a populated area.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> after finding 20 rockets hidden in one of its *vacant schools* in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, not in a populated area.
Click to expand...


Where did it say the area was unpopulated?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
Click to expand...

That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
Click to expand...










						Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
					

Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.




					jacobinmag.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
Click to expand...

Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.

Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
Click to expand...










						The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
					

If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.




					www.truthdig.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Invasion
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  This is merely a flight of fancy and imagination. The Israelis never invaded any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians; not one single square inch.  In fact, I have trouble identifying "Palestine" as a "State" prior to December 2012.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.


*(COMMENT)*

In 1967, Israel pursued Jordanian Forces through the West Bank and Jerusalem and across the River back into Jordan.  The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) occupied sovereign Jordanian territory.  The IDF did NOT occupy Arab Palestinian Territory.  

In August 1988, Jordan cut all ties with its territory west of the Jordan River.  Absent any formed Arab Palestinian Government at the time, the territory fell into a protected status until 1993 and the Oslo Accords between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).  By 1995, Areas "A" • "B" • "C" • "Gaza Strip" • "Jerusalem" were established.  

There is NO definition for an entity known as a "Proper Occupying Power."  However, the discussion of the status of the territory under the effective IDF control may be beyond International Law which has not kept-up with the need for these types of territorial confrontations and consequences _(forming outcomes)_.  

Also, the outcome of the 1973 Yom Kipper War _(another Arab League 'v' Israel Confrontation)_ has not been factored into the International understanding of the political equation.   These outcomes lead directly to the Oslo Accords 1993-1994; as well as the Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.





*Most Respectfully,*
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[It is Ramadan, and Muslims are "livid" against Jews.
1700 years of "livid" reactions against the Jews, their favorite dhimhis}





Palestinians are livid that this photo exists. Imagine, a wire service photographer - a Palestinian, no less - who chooses to show something that doesn't portray every Israeli as a monster!


(full article online)









						Palestinians upset at AFP photo showing IDF soldier protecting an Arab woman
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Self-Defense
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: There is no such thing as a Sovereign State like Israel not having the Right to Self-Defense as an attack by quasi-Government sponsored non-state actors like the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.

*(COMMENT)*

Periodically, this bogus argument *(Israel has no Right to Self-Defense)* is raised from time-to-time.  This is Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) subterfuge.

It is well established that the Palestinian Authority (*President Mahmoud Abbas*) was *opposed to the furtherance of Israel forging peaceful arrangements* independent of the Israeli-Palestinian Confrontation, in the interest of economic objectives, political normalization, and the maintenance of international peace and security.

The HoAP address almost every endeavor towards international peace and security with opposition.  Their policy is Armed Struggle and Jihad are the only way to achieve their national interests.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
Click to expand...

Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense. 

When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks. 

Put your Pom Poms down.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
Click to expand...

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not. 

Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not. 





__





						A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
					

Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.



					www.worldpress.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
Click to expand...

I understand you want justification and allowances for your misfit heroes killing civilians. What you cut and pasted isn't it.


----------



## Hollie

As is usual, before and during the Islamic holy month of fasting, gluttony and gee-had killing, the PA has been doing their best to incite the faithful toward creating mayhem.



*The real source of the violence in Jerusalem*










						The real source of the violence in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
					

“I fired my shots, I threw my bomb. I detonated, detonated, detonated my [explosive] belts… My brother, throw my blood on the enemy like bullets”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | Apr 27, 2021

*In the days before the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, PA TV repeatedly broadcast a video inciting terror:*
*“I fired my shots, I threw my bomb. I detonated, detonated, detonated my [explosive] belts…   My brother, throw my blood on the enemy like bullets”*

*The video was broadcast 20 times between April 2 and April 10*
*The broadcast of songs promoting hate and violence immediately after animated children's shows should not be seen as a coincidence, but rather as part of the PA's indoctrination of children*


----------



## rylah

*Another Telling Video From 'Haram al-Sharif'
(The Temple Mount)*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Ramadan, Ramadan, Ramadan......we all know where it always leads]

None other than the Fatah party, headed by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. The international community considers the Palestinian Authority to be “moderate” and suitable partners for a peace deal with Israel.

This video shows a protest in Nablus with demonstrators waving Palestinian flags and yellow Fatah flags while encouraging death as “martyrs” for Jerusalem.

(full article online)









						WATCH: Who is Encouraging Violent Riots in Jerusalem? | United with Israel
					

If you want to know where the recent violence in Jerusalem is coming from, look no further than the Palestinian Authority's ruling party.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians cheer as Israeli barriers come down after Jerusalem Ramadan clashes*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians cheer as Israeli barriers come down after Jerusalem Ramadan clashes*


Ramadan is a favored time for Islamic violence and mayhem.


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the Islamic holy month of binging and gorging is celebrated with the obligatory gee-had violence.











						Abbas “salutes” Arab rioters in Jerusalem; Fatah promotes “intifada” ‎against Jews ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “There is an uprising and intifada in Jerusalem” - Fatah ‎supports violent assaults against Jews




					www.palwatch.org
				



https://www.palwatch.org/
*Abbas “salutes” Arab rioters in Jerusalem; Fatah promotes “intifada” ‎against Jews ‎*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 28, 2021

*Abbas: “We salute our people in Jerusalem for their resolve ‎against the Israeli plans to take control of the holy city”‎*
*Fatah: “There is an uprising and intifada in Jerusalem” - Fatah ‎supports violent assaults against Jews*




*Official PA daily editorial: “Jerusalem’s protectors and guardians ‎have well understood that the elections in Jerusalem are a battle of ‎national sovereignty… the protectors and guardians of Jerusalem, ‎the brave residents of Jerusalem, have set the streets of the capital ‎on fire and have lit the torch of defiance next to its historical ‎gates…”‎*
*Official PA daily editorial: Riots are “clearest heroic examples of ‎defending the sanctity of the capital and its holy sites”‎*
*Fatah official “urges young people” to join Jerusalem riots and “to ‎defend the holy sites”‎ and official PA TV broadcast the call*
*Fatah: Confrontations in Jerusalem “not temporary” but “a ‎confrontation between justice and injustice and between truth and ‎lies”‎*
*Fatah official: “There are lions in Jerusalem who are defending it”‎*


----------



## Hollie

With the UNRWA welfare fraud endowment possibly slipping away, Emir Abbas has the expected solution. 










						Palestinian elections: Abbas set to announce cancellation, reports say
					

The president is expected on Thursday to cancel parliamentary elections, citing Israel’s democratic restrictions on Palestinians in occupied East Jerusalem




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to announce the cancellation of the 22 May legislative elections, according to multiple sources and media reports.


----------



## Hollie

With personal fortunes to be won or lost depending on control of the UNRWA welfare fraud money, the Pally hopefuls will jockey for position. 











						Palestinian elections appear headed for delay amid Jerusalem dispute, Fatah infighting
					

The first Palestinian elections in 15 years appeared to be headed for a delay on Tuesday amid a dispute over voting in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem and splits in President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah party.




					www.reuters.com
				




The first Palestinian elections in 15 years appeared to be headed for a delay on Tuesday amid a dispute over voting in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem and splits in President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza: Power Cuts Harm People with Disabilities*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza: Power Cuts Harm People with Disabilities*



_Israel’s 13-year closure of the Gaza Strip *along with neglect by Hamas authorities*, significantly encumber the day-to-day life of tens of thousands of Palestinians with disabilities. Sweeping Israeli restrictions on the movement of people and goods, *at times exacerbated by restrictive policies by Palestinian authorities*, curb access to assistive devices, health care, and electricity essential to many people with disabilities. Chronic power outages in particular jeopardize the rights of many people with disabilities who need light to communicate using sign language, or need equipment powered by electricity to move, including elevators and electric mobility scooters.  _


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza: Power Cuts Harm People with Disabilities*


Live by the gee-had, push your wheel chair by the gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

It’s difficult to have real expectations that the EU will hold the Pally terrorists and UNRWA accountable. Hopefully, this is a first step. 











						EU moves to stop funding Palestinian terrorists, inciting textbooks
					

The new guideline doubles down on the European Parliament’s commitment to prevent EU donations from ending up in the hands of terrorists, by calling for proactive recovery of funds.




					m.jpost.com
				





The European Parliament Wednesday reaffirmed its commitment to ensure EU funds do not reach anyone affiliated with terrorists. It also rapped UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, for inciting hate and violence in its textbooks.

The legislature’s annual budgetary report says the EU must “thoroughly verify” that its funds are not “allocated or linked to any cause or form of terrorism and/or religious and political radicalization.” Any funds that did go to any person or organization with terrorist ties must be “proactively recovered, and recipients involved are excluded from future union funding.”


----------



## Hollie

The article speaks to failed policies of the past which Biden seems keen to continue. The notion that hosing down the Islamic terrorist Pals with money and expecting them behave in a way different than their history of behavior Is just ludicrous. 











						Why Biden Should Not Give Aid to the Palestinian Authority
					

The Biden administration needs to stop rewarding Palestinian intransigence and support for terror.




					nationalinterest.org
				




Perhaps the most perplexing of Washington’s bad habits is the knee-jerk regression of the newly empowered to return to the failed policies of the past. Both parties are guilty, and nowhere is this phenomenon more endemic than in America’s Middle East policy. In recent weeks, however, President Joe Biden’s administration has displayed an almost defiant opposition to recognizing the realities on the ground in the region. The Middle East has changed since Biden was last in office, and his policies should reflect the same.


----------



## Hollie

I’m thinking maybe he was hit with a big repair bill on his presidential jet. 











						Palestinian President Unleashes Profane Rant Against Rest of the World
					

Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas was recently caught badmouthing several countries, including the United States and his Arab neighbors, during a profanity-laced rant that raises new concerns about the 85-year-old leader's deteriorating health.




					freebeacon.com
				





When asked by an unidentified attendee at the Fatah political party's April 19 meeting what his message to China is on the 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party, Abbas went ballistic.

"Fuck the c—t of China with a shoe!" Abbas screamed, according to an independent Arabic translation of his remarks provided to the _Washington Free Beacon_. "That good for you?"

After pausing for a few seconds, Abbas continued yelling: "And Russia, America, and all the Arabs. What's wrong with you? All of you go to hell!"


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
Click to expand...


_ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._

Do you have a real source for this claim?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._
> 
> Do you have a real source for this claim?
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Fourth Geneva Convention.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._
> 
> Do you have a real source for this claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Click to expand...


Post the portion you feel applies.
And the portion where the Israelis said settlers aren't civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._
> 
> Do you have a real source for this claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you want to selectively and falsely cite Geneva conventions while you flail your Pom Poms celebrating acts of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Well, this is strange. We're told "this is not about religion" relative to the conflict perpetuated by the Arabs-Moslems. This, in spite of the clear references to religious elements spurring the Islamic gee-had. 









						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




*‎“We are Allah’s hand,”‎ declares Fatah amid riots*
Itamar Marcus  | Apr 29, 2021

*Arabs are “Allah’s hand,” when attacking Jews in Jerusalem*
*Fatah turns Jerusalem confrontations into religious war*
*Fatah leader: Whoever doesn’t participate in the “battle to defend ‎Jerusalem… is a mute devil”‎*





Arabs attacking Jews in Jerusalem are “Allah’s hand.” This message was Abbas’ ‎Fatah Movement’s response following days of violent Arab riots in Jerusalem, ‎which Fatah seems intent on turning into a religious war.  ‎

In two posts on its official Facebook page, Fatah declared the Arabs committing the violence to ‎be “Allah’s hand”:‎


> Posted text with image above:* “We are Allah’s hand that will restore ‎Jerusalem’s status*
> ‎#There_will_be_no_[PA]elections_without_Jerusalem
> ‎[Fatah] Commission of Information and Culture”‎
> *Text on image:* “The Fatah Movement‎
> The Commission of Information and Culture
> *We are Allah’s hand that will restore Jerusalem’s status*”‎
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture, ‎April 26, 2021


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._
> 
> Do you have a real source for this claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post the portion you feel applies.
> And the portion where the Israelis said settlers aren't civilians.
Click to expand...

B. -- ' In occupied territories; ' protection is accorded to all persons who are not of the nationality of the occupying State.





__





						Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - 4 -  - Commentary of 1958
					





					ihl-databases.icrc.org
				



------------------
In fact, Hamas did not work to target civilians. It is so simple if you want to do that. However, Hamas does not target schools, cinemas, hospitals, which the Israelis have done all the time.

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
In 2003 we went to Cairo. The Egyptians asked whether Hamas is ready to stop the martyrdom operations or not. We gave the Egyptians a better offer. We were ready to have an agreement to stop targeting civilians [on] both sides. The army is supposed to fight, but civilians should be out of it. The Egyptians agreed and passed it on to the Israelis.

Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.





__





						A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
					

Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.



					www.worldpress.org
				




Halevi went back to Israel, but Sharon rejected the proposal. He said that he is not giving us the chance to kill his soldiers while his hands are tied behind the back because he retaliated against civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._
> 
> Do you have a real source for this claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post the portion you feel applies.
> And the portion where the Israelis said settlers aren't civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> B. -- ' In occupied territories; ' protection is accorded to all persons who are not of the nationality of the occupying State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - 4 -  - Commentary of 1958
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------
> In fact, Hamas did not work to target civilians. It is so simple if you want to do that. However, Hamas does not target schools, cinemas, hospitals, which the Israelis have done all the time.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> In 2003 we went to Cairo. The Egyptians asked whether Hamas is ready to stop the martyrdom operations or not. We gave the Egyptians a better offer. We were ready to have an agreement to stop targeting civilians [on] both sides. The army is supposed to fight, but civilians should be out of it. The Egyptians agreed and passed it on to the Israelis.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halevi went back to Israel, but Sharon rejected the proposal. He said that he is not giving us the chance to kill his soldiers while his hands are tied behind the back because he retaliated against civilians.
Click to expand...

That's so cute. You cut and pasted a Hamas propaganda piece.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Definition of Civilians (ICRC)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  I believe that someone is confusing the terms "civilians" and that of "Protected Persons."



			
				ICRC • Definition of civilians and civilian population • GCIV said:
			
		

> 1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A (1), (2), (3) and (6) [ Link ]  of the Third Convention and in Article 43 [ Link ]  of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.
> 
> 2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.
> 
> 3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.
> 
> SOURCE:  *Article 50, Additional Protocol I, GCIV*



*(REFERENCES)*

• Article 43 [ Link ]  -- Armed forces •
• *GCIII*
*ARTICLE 4 [ Link ] * 

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

*(COMMENT)*

The settlers are "civilians" and are accorded the treatment associated with civilians IAW *Rule 6 → Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities*.

This is basic stuff.  This is another example of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) promoting the conflict and the expansing of hostilities.






*Most Respectfully,*
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Reward to a Terrorist Supporting Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I would be very careful who YOU direct profanity at on this matter.
> 
> *IF* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) commits an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) →
> *THEN* the HoAP is subject to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in accordance with penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...One of the PA’s celebrity gee-had killers was released from prison and _Death Cult TV_ was falling over themselves to attach the “model of sacrifice” label...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *YOU* might want to look-up the Customary and IHL (*Article 68 of the GCIV*).  Yes,  simple fact checking shows that YOU are 100% WRONG.
> 
> Furthermore, advocating _(*as YOU do*)_ that attacks upon the Occupying Power _(the IDF)_ are a legal undertaking is a violation of International Human Rights Law (HRL).  YOU know this because it has been explained to you many times.
> 
> *Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)*​1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​YOU are (in my opinion) violating HRL just by using this forum to spread this false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader and encourage further violence by susceptible readers.
> 
> *S/RES/1624 (2005)* • Reaffirming also the imperative to combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations by all means to comply with all their obligations under international law:​​1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:​​(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;​(YOU:  "Attacking foreign invading forces is not terrorism.  Look it up.")​​(b)  Prevent such conduct;​[By using your authoritative voice, you are essentially advocating that it is OK to commit such action as:​Criminal Acts directed against the Occupying Power (Israel) with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.]​​(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible​and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> IF what you are doing is not a direct violation of the law, it is surely outside the spirit of the HRL.  You are NOT trying to improve and strengthen the peace, but rather imply that hostilities are warranted, which is not the proper direction at all (*To maintain international peace and security*).
> 
> Furthermore, when YOU make absurd *ad Hominem* accusations, such as you have done here* ("What dumbfuck wrote this?")*, YOU are engaged in a fallacy that verbally abuses a member of the Discussion Group rather than logically addressing the content of the contribution for which YOU disagree.
> 
> I have cited and link the salient point to specific sources that you may examine at your leasure.
> 
> *OK, I'm off the Soapbox*,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most Respectfully,*
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a propper occupying power. Thay are still in the invasion phase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. *The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
> 
> 
> [In view of Israel`s assertions that its current attacks on the Gaza Strip are an exercise in legitimate self-defense, Jadaliyya re-posts an analysis of this claim by Co-Editor Noura Erakat initially published in 2012.] On the fourth day of Israel`s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jadaliyya.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s so silly. A couple of gee-had wannabes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
> 
> 
> Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobinmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, just guessing here, but I think the Israelis will disagree that Islamic terrorist attacks proceed without response.
> 
> Indeed, still nothing on those “new states”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians' Right to Self-Defense
> 
> 
> If the international community will not halt Israel's Gaza attack and war crimes then it must concede to the Palestinians the right to self-defense under the U.N. Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truthdig.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Explicit calls by various islamic terrorist franchises and by Hamas and Fatah for attacks on Israeli citizens is not self defense.
> 
> When you endorse such behavior on the part of the Arabs-Moslems, you have no case to be made for complaining about the Israeli response to stop those attacks.
> 
> Put your Pom Poms down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _ We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not._
> 
> Do you have a real source for this claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post the portion you feel applies.
> And the portion where the Israelis said settlers aren't civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> B. -- ' In occupied territories; ' protection is accorded to all persons who are not of the nationality of the occupying State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - 4 -  - Commentary of 1958
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------
> In fact, Hamas did not work to target civilians. It is so simple if you want to do that. However, Hamas does not target schools, cinemas, hospitals, which the Israelis have done all the time.
> 
> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
> In 2003 we went to Cairo. The Egyptians asked whether Hamas is ready to stop the martyrdom operations or not. We gave the Egyptians a better offer. We were ready to have an agreement to stop targeting civilians [on] both sides. The army is supposed to fight, but civilians should be out of it. The Egyptians agreed and passed it on to the Israelis.
> 
> Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpress.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halevi went back to Israel, but Sharon rejected the proposal. He said that he is not giving us the chance to kill his soldiers while his hands are tied behind the back because he retaliated against civilians.
Click to expand...


*Halevi went back to Israel, but Sharon rejected the proposal. *

So the Israelis DID NOT say that "settlers were not civilians". One guy did.

*He said that he is not giving us the chance to kill his soldiers while his hands are tied behind the back because he retaliated against civilians.*

You have a real source for this?  (Not a single Hamas source)


----------



## Sixties Fan

As the Palestinian Authority and the anti-Israel Left say that Israel has not been helping Palestinians during the COVID-19 crisis, the actual statistics of what Israel has provided the PA from last March through the end of 2020 shows that these are all lies.

According to data provided by the Civil Administration to the organization Im Tirtzu, during 2020 Israel transferred:

110 respirators, 
170 monitors, 
109 oxygen generators, 
87 intensive care beds, 
86 hospital beds, 
2,313,050 surgical masks, 
312,724 N95 masks, 
6,967,823 surgical gloves, 
248,544 PCR kits 
Another 244,500 test kits. 

(full article online)









						Israel has given HUGE amounts of aid to Palestinians during COVID-19
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Another Hamas beat down may take place in the near future. The competing Islamic terrorist franchises are posturing such that Israel will be blamed for Abbas canceling elections in May. It’s really about the competing, warring Islamic tribes failing to behave like adults. When the missiles fly out of Gaza, it will get ugly for Hamas as the Israelis send in retaliatory air strikes. 











						Israel braces for fallout as Abbas expected to delay Palestinian elections
					

Hamas, which stands to make gains in the vote, warns it will hold Israel responsible if ballot is postponed over dispute on East Jerusalem voting; Israel says it's not intervening




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Hamas, which stands to make gains in the vote, warns it will hold Israel responsible if ballot is postponed over dispute on East Jerusalem voting; Israel says it’s not intervening


----------



## Hollie

Wow. That was.... predictable.









						Palestinian Authority Postpones Parliamentary Elections
					

The last elections were held in 2006 and the Palestinian parliament hasn't conducted real business in years. Many observers predict the Islamist party Hamas is poised to win if elections are held.




					www.npr.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: *PA/FATAH/Palestinian Elections*
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: There was never any reason to hold the expectation that elections would occur.  



Hollie said:


> Hamas, which stands to make gains in the vote, warns it will hold Israel responsible if ballot is postponed over dispute on East Jerusalem voting; Israel says it’s not intervening


*(COMMENT)*

There is a certain amount of resistance in any closed political environment to any change in the dimension of a territorial unit having a single source of political power.  The single source of political power will generally attempt to continuously hold that reigns of power until the hold (_the resistance_) is broken by a superior power (_political entropy_ → _order to disorder_).

While it may have sounded like the Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas was endorsing free-elections, this was only a mask to hide the opposite intention.  President Abbas wants to appear to be a forward thinking source of democratic change, the intention was always to find a political reason to postpone the election at the expense of some entity _(shifting the blame)_.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: 1960's and 1970's Revolution Preaching Style
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: This is old fashion talk in support of revolution and generalized conflict.



P F Tinmore said:


> Kanafani Biography


*Reminder:*  Ghasssan Kanafani was a Jimmy Hendrix - Woodstock Era rabble-rouser and has been dead for a half century.
*(COMMENT)*

Every now and then, for historical purposes, it is good to hear what the "old timers" have to say and put it up to the light for comparison against the light of today.  First thing you should notice is the _*al-Jazeera*_ narrator said that: "he was born in Palestine but '*fled*' in 1948 from Zionist Terror."  Interesting word, "Fled."  It implies that it was not a forced displacement, but rather a deliberate choice to run away (flee), from a perceived danger or pursuers _(of course as seen by a 10 year-old boy)_.  The entire bio-newsreel _(a very good presentation)_ was done in the near same fashion as those presentations by "the most trusted man in America" → *Walter Cronkite* (1916-2009).

Kanafani was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)_(a radical Marxist–Leninist movement from the very beginning)_.  Kanafani was just one of the many around the world that were idealist and were disillusioned with the politics of the time.  And like many of the time, Kanafani found himself imitating people like Che Guevara (1928 – 1967) and Malcolm X (1925-1965) - famous revolutionaries of the day.

Todays factions within the Arab Palestinian movements have not advanced much in their ideology, political theory and cultural dynamics in the interval between Kanafani and today.  They still claim they are fighting invaders over their (Arab Palestinian Land) and against a foreign Army.  Kanafani opposes the view that the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict was ever a civil war - and considered the Jewish settlers to be equivalent to illegal immigrants trying to takeover the territory.  The idea that the Arab Palestinian _(formerly Ottoman Citizens of the Enemy Occupied Territory)_ have never abandon the idea that they had an inherent post-War claim to the entirety of the territory formerly under the Administration of the Mandate _(West of the Jordan River)_.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Todays factions within the Arab Palestinian movements have not advanced much in their ideology, political theory and cultural dynamics in the interval between Kanafani and today.


Yep, still occupied.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> They still claim they are fighting invaders over their (Arab Palestinian Land) and against a foreign Army. Kanafani opposes the view that the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict was ever a civil war


I came to that same conclusion years ago and have posted as much on this board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> and considered the Jewish settlers to be equivalent to illegal immigrants trying to takeover the territory.


Oh, like *that* didn't happen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> have never abandon the idea that they had an inherent post-War claim to the entirety of the territory


Do you mean like the territory inside their international borders?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> And like many of the time, Kanafani found himself imitating people like Che Guevara (1928 – 1967)


However, he never picked up a gun but Israel killed him anyway. Like
Khalida Jarrar who has never even picked up a rock but has spent years in Israeli jails.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And like many of the time, Kanafani found himself imitating people like Che Guevara (1928 – 1967)
> 
> 
> 
> However, he never picked up a gun but Israel killed him anyway. Like
> Khalida Jarrar who has never even picked up a rock but has spent years in Israeli jails.
Click to expand...

Incitement does not necessarily involve picking up a rock. Yes, you want to excuse criminality when those excuses calm an emotional requirement for Jew hating.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> have never abandon the idea that they had an inherent post-War claim to the entirety of the territory
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like the territory inside their international borders?
Click to expand...

You’re back to your silly “new states” conspiracy theory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Todays factions within the Arab Palestinian movements have not advanced much in their ideology, political theory and cultural dynamics in the interval between Kanafani and today.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, still occupied.
Click to expand...

Slogans don’t make false narratives a reality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And like many of the time, Kanafani found himself imitating people like Che Guevara (1928 – 1967)
> 
> 
> 
> However, he never picked up a gun but Israel killed him anyway. Like
> Khalida Jarrar who has never even picked up a rock but has spent years in Israeli jails.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Incitement does not necessarily involve picking up a rock. Yes, you want to excuse criminality when those excuses calm an emotional requirement for Jew hating.
Click to expand...

Interesting, could you give some examples of this so called incitement?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Boundaries again...
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Palestine had no international borders until Israel was established.  The territory to which the Mandate Applied and later the Trusteeship, had demarcations under the Sikes-Picot Agreement (Zones "A" and "B") from the Persian Frontier to the Mediterranean Sea.  These two zones were then partitioned into Mandate Areas.



RoccoR said:


> have never abandon the idea that they had an inherent post-War claim to the entirety of the territory





P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean like the territory inside their international borders?


*(COMMENT)*

The two central Treaties that came as a result of the San Remo Convention (April 1920) were:

*◈  Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920*.​*◈  Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921.*​
You get this wrong every time.  It is a mistaken concept that has been repeated over and over again without a fact-check.  Then passed on to the uneducated as though it were some sort of truth.

By Treaty between these two Principle Allied Powers established the boundaries between the territories under the French mandates of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine.

What you are calling "international borders" are actually the "boundaries" that two Allied Powers agreed to administer.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The territory to which the Mandate Applied and later the Trusteeship,


The Mandates never acquired any territory. The territories were transferred directly to the new states.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Definitions and Meanings
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: You have again tried to change the definition and misdirect the reader.

*INCITEMENT*:  the act of encouraging someone to do or feel something unpleasant or violent:​
• Fallacy → *Definitional retreat* – changing the meaning of​a word to deal with an objection raised against the original wording.​• Fallacy → *Genetic fallacy* – where a conclusion is suggested​based solely on something or someone’s origin rather than​its current meaning or context​


RoccoR said:


> And like many of the time, Kanafani found himself imitating people like Che Guevara (1928 – 1967)





P F Tinmore said:


> However, he never picked up a gun but Israel killed him anyway. Like
> Khalida Jarrar who has never even picked up a rock but has spent years in Israeli jails.


*(COMMENT)*

While "incitement" can involve the use of a weapon of some sort, that is not an element of the meaning of incitement.  The two individuals you mentioned were NOT involved in the use of a weapon _(as far as I know)_.  None the less, they both were the *proximate cause* of violent actions taken by others.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandates never acquired any territory. The territories were transferred directly to the new states.


What "new states"?

Odd that you repeat a falsehood as though it's true. Seems like a rather desperate delusion.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Transfer of territory (NONE)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: You are wrong.  At the time of the Treaty of Lausanne, no "New States" had yet been created.



RoccoR said:


> The territory to which the Mandate Applied and later the Trusteeship,





P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandates never acquired any territory. The territories were transferred directly to the new states.


*(COMMENT)*

The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic DID NOT transfer any territory.  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic *renounced all rights and title* _(Article 16 - pertaining to territory outside Turkey)_ to the Allied Powers.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And like many of the time, Kanafani found himself imitating people like Che Guevara (1928 – 1967)
> 
> 
> 
> However, he never picked up a gun but Israel killed him anyway. Like
> Khalida Jarrar who has never even picked up a rock but has spent years in Israeli jails.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Incitement does not necessarily involve picking up a rock. Yes, you want to excuse criminality when those excuses calm an emotional requirement for Jew hating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting, could you give some examples of this so called incitement?
Click to expand...

I certainly could. You also can find examples.

Could you identify these "new states" you claim were created by the Treaty of Lausanne? I read through the text and found nothing that names "new states".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory to which the Mandate Applied and later the Trusteeship,
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandates never acquired any territory. The territories were transferred directly to the new states.
Click to expand...







						Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive
					






					wwi.lib.byu.edu
				




No indication of "new states" you claim were invented.

Is there a different version at your madrassah?


----------



## Hollie

Apartheid, I tell ya'. 

An Arab-Moslem selling land to a Jew will be fatwa'ed and the angry Moslems will even come for your children. 












						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




*Arab “traitors” selling land to Jews must be pursued until they “go to hell” - ‎official PA daily columnist*
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 30, 2021
As part of the PA’s recent outcry over Arabs in the Silwan neighborhood of ‎Jerusalem selling property to Jews, the official PA daily published an op-ed that laid ‎out severe measures to “take revenge” on Arab land sellers. ‎

Describing the “illegal transfer of property” as “betrayal of the homeland” and ‎‎“treason,” Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, a regular columnist for the paper, suggested ‎making a blacklist of the “collaborators” to be distributed “even in kindergartens” in ‎order to “incite against” the land sellers. He also advocated that families renounce ‎any members selling land to “Zionists” and cited the PA’s religious ruling that land ‎sellers must be excommunicated and no longer considered members of the Islamic ‎faith.‎


> Headline: “The illegal transfer of property –betrayal of the homeland”‎
> “*Betraying the homeland is a curse that will pursue the one who commits ‎it to the end of his days, in this world and the next*. It cannot be swallowed, ‎justified, or covered up – *whoever becomes entangled in [treason] is a ‎criminal, heretic, and is cursed until judgment day*…‎
> The matter of selling Arab Palestinian properties and lands to Zionist groups ‎and gangs and to their extremist right-wing government requires a wide plan ‎of action that includes an effective popular response, and a strong arm that ‎can nip every collaborator in the bud regardless of his status, position, name, ‎and family name. The national measures that will ensure taking care of the ‎collaborators include:‎
> 1. *The family must renounce its child, but this is not enough – he must be ‎removed and isolated in his home until he leaves it [to go] to hell and to ‎his evil fate.‎*
> 2. It must be explicitly announced not to pray for him, whether he is Muslim or ‎Christian, and also not to agree to bury him in the Islamic or Christian ‎cemeteries. *This is due to the fatwa (i.e., religious ruling) of [Head of the ‎Supreme Muslim Council] Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, and he [must be] declared ‎excommunicated.* This will be documented by the relevant authorities in ‎order to *continue pursuing him after death*.‎


----------



## Hollie

Miami is a long way from the islamic occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank but the Islamic gee-had knows no borders or geography. The holy warrior dregs teaching the next generation of gee-had wannabes believe they are back in those 8th century days of conquest and murder for their religion.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Miami is a long way from the islamic occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank but the Islamic gee-had knows no borders or geography. The holy warrior dregs teaching the next generation of gee-had wannabes believe they are back in those 8th century days of conquest and murder for their religion.



Why not? Money for nothing and chicks for free........


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Apartheid, I tell ya'.
> 
> An Arab-Moslem selling land to a Jew will be fatwa'ed and the angry Moslems will even come for your children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Arab “traitors” selling land to Jews must be pursued until they “go to hell” - ‎official PA daily columnist*
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 30, 2021
> As part of the PA’s recent outcry over Arabs in the Silwan neighborhood of ‎Jerusalem selling property to Jews, the official PA daily published an op-ed that laid ‎out severe measures to “take revenge” on Arab land sellers. ‎
> 
> Describing the “illegal transfer of property” as “betrayal of the homeland” and ‎‎“treason,” Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, a regular columnist for the paper, suggested ‎making a blacklist of the “collaborators” to be distributed “even in kindergartens” in ‎order to “incite against” the land sellers. He also advocated that families renounce ‎any members selling land to “Zionists” and cited the PA’s religious ruling that land ‎sellers must be excommunicated and no longer considered members of the Islamic ‎faith.‎
> 
> 
> 
> Headline: “The illegal transfer of property –betrayal of the homeland”‎
> “*Betraying the homeland is a curse that will pursue the one who commits ‎it to the end of his days, in this world and the next*. It cannot be swallowed, ‎justified, or covered up – *whoever becomes entangled in [treason] is a ‎criminal, heretic, and is cursed until judgment day*…‎
> The matter of selling Arab Palestinian properties and lands to Zionist groups ‎and gangs and to their extremist right-wing government requires a wide plan ‎of action that includes an effective popular response, and a strong arm that ‎can nip every collaborator in the bud regardless of his status, position, name, ‎and family name. The national measures that will ensure taking care of the ‎collaborators include:‎
> 1. *The family must renounce its child, but this is not enough – he must be ‎removed and isolated in his home until he leaves it [to go] to hell and to ‎his evil fate.‎*
> 2. It must be explicitly announced not to pray for him, whether he is Muslim or ‎Christian, and also not to agree to bury him in the Islamic or Christian ‎cemeteries. *This is due to the fatwa (i.e., religious ruling) of [Head of the ‎Supreme Muslim Council] Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, and he [must be] declared ‎excommunicated.* This will be documented by the relevant authorities in ‎order to *continue pursuing him after death*.‎
Click to expand...

What happens when a Palestinian buys land in Israel?


----------



## Hollie

“I dunt need no steekin’ excuses”

Some sources are indicating Emir Abbas has options which would have allowed elections (of a sort) to proceed in the Islamic occupied territories.

Whether the Emir had any intentions of proceeding with elections is unknown but after a health check-up in Germany during early April, maybe he decided he has a few good years left to bilk the UNRWA welfare fraud.





			https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/abbas-palestinian-elections-postpone-barghouti-jerusalem
		



Mahmoud Abbas was offered at least four solutions to allow the first Palestinian elections in 15 years to move forward next month instead of shelving them, a Palestinian official with direct knowledge of election plans told Middle East Eye.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What happens when a Palestinian buys land in Israel?


What happens?


----------



## Hollie

Some expected bluster coming out of Hamas mouthpieces. They have a chance to gain political and economic influence so there's a lot at stake for them. 








__





						Hamas Warns Palestine President Mahmoud Abbas it Will Not 'Provide Cover' if Election Delayed
					





					www.msn.com
				




Ahead of expectations that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party will seek on Thursday to delay the country's upcoming election, the Islamic militant group Hamas voiced its disapproval, saying it will not be party to a postponement.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


She never identified any of those “new states” you claim were created by the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Did the judge make a finding of fact about those “new states” you claim were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne?


----------



## Hollie

More honesty than I expected from Al Jazeera. The article offers a sobering evaluation of the always-distant elections. One of the points made is that it is unlikely there would be perceivable change in the structure of Pal society as any new conglomeration of new ruling thugs and misfits would simply be replacements for the existing thugs and misfits.










						A new approach to elections in Palestine
					

When the legislative elections do take place, Palestinians should vote to reject the status quo.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





But a closer look at what was going on in the electoral race betrays a different reality. The election was more likely to produce a “shamocracy” that would maintain the deep-rooted structures of oppression, tyranny and fragmentation.

This is because the two political forces that have dominated the Palestinian political scene over the past 15 years and are vying for power again, have inflicted severe damage on the Palestinian national movement, depleted the national liberation project, and exacerbated vertical and horizontal fragmentation within the Palestinian society.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


She’s been rather quiet since 2018.

Too old to be useful? She was much more entertaining as Shirley Temper.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.


Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
Click to expand...

What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?

All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.

If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.

Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?

It's a softball. Take a swing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: A "few" Rockets
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: This is one of the most unbelievable and unrealistic statements I have seen you make.  



Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.





P F Tinmore said:


> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.


*(COMMENT)*

If you have ever been under SAF or by al-Qassam 115mm Rockets or, you have some room to make a comment about the insignificance of such.  But I've been to RVN, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen → I know better...  And it sounds like to me, you don't no shit about being under hostile fire.

There is no such thing as being under legal (Rule 11) optional Indiscriminate attacks which puts civilians at risk.  It is just that simple.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: A "few" Rockets
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: This is one of the most unbelievable and unrealistic statements I have seen you make.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you have ever been under SAF or by al-Qassam 115mm Rockets or, you have some room to make a comment about the insignificance of such.  But I've been to RVN, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen → I know better...  And it sounds like to me, you don't no shit about being under hostile fire.
> 
> There is no such thing as being under legal (Rule 11) optional Indiscriminate attacks which puts civilians at risk.  It is just that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

The siege is an act of war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.
> 
> Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
Click to expand...

Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.
> 
> Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
Click to expand...

Another of your silly cut and paste slogans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: A "few" Rockets
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: This is one of the most unbelievable and unrealistic statements I have seen you make.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you have ever been under SAF or by al-Qassam 115mm Rockets or, you have some room to make a comment about the insignificance of such.  But I've been to RVN, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen → I know better...  And it sounds like to me, you don't no shit about being under hostile fire.
> 
> There is no such thing as being under legal (Rule 11) optional Indiscriminate attacks which puts civilians at risk.  It is just that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The siege is an act of war.
Click to expand...

There is no siege.


----------



## Hollie

A rather scathing condemnation of the Pally enclaves, their success at turning failure into bigger failures.... continuing failures and something of a statement about Arab intransigence. 

There's something retrograde about believing the rantings of a 7th century Arab warlord still provide an entitlement to war and conquest. 

But as we see, politics and the inertia of time are working against Pally perceptions of entitlement.  











						Disengagement at the ballot box in Palestine
					

Three decades after Oslo, Palestinians today find themselves back to square one



					www.google.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Palestinian Literary License to Exaggerate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: There is no "siege."  That is just propaganda flare to  capture the emotion of the _(target audience)_ readers. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The siege is an act of war.


*(JUST A FEW CONCEPTS)*

All sovereignties have the right to control their borders as they deem necessary.  (National Security, Customs and Immigration being the three biggest purposes.)

The issue of  Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) in All Its Aspects since the mid-1990's has become ever a reason to interdict such trade.
​


			
				UN Security Council said:
			
		

> Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;​*SOURCE*:  *S/RES/2117 (2013)*​


​
*1997**International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*
Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

Each State Party shall adopt such measures as may be necessary, including, where appropriate, domestic legislation, to ensure that criminal acts within the scope of this Convention, in particular where they are intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature and are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature.​​We resolve to undertake the following measures to prevent and combat terrorism, in particular by denying terrorists access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks → See  Annex to  *A/RES/60/288. The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*:
​To strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money-laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials;​
*(COMMENT)*

Over and above concepts and strategies mentioned, supra, Israel has a Right to protect its citizens from the actions of external rouge populations that threaten the public order and safety its citizens and national interests.

Since the unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), thousands and thousands of rockets and mortars have been fired into Israel from the terrorist government and its associated satellite entities. All mariners were advised that *as of 03 January 2009, 1700 UTC, Gaza maritime area was closed* to all maritime traffic and is under blockade imposed by Israeli Navy until further notice.  This action was not a punitive measure → but rather → a preventative measure necessary to be implemented as an outcome for the abuses of the freedom _(kidnapping, Murder, Indiscriminate fire, routine targeting of civilians, etc)_ the Arab Palestinians acquired as a result of the unilateral withdrawal.

The Arab Palestinians have demonstrated that they pose a danger and repeatedly threatened to Israeli life style and culture over the last seven decades.  The Arab Higher Committee reaffirmed  that the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom.

The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
 The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Palestinian Literary License to Exaggerate
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: There is no "siege."  That is just propaganda flare to  capture the emotion of the _(target audience)_ readers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The siege is an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(JUST A FEW CONCEPTS)*
> 
> All sovereignties have the right to control their borders as they deem necessary.  (National Security, Customs and Immigration being the three biggest purposes.)
> 
> The issue of  Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) in All Its Aspects since the mid-1990's has become ever a reason to interdict such trade.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UN Security Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;​*SOURCE*:  *S/RES/2117 (2013)*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> *1997**International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> Each State Party shall adopt such measures as may be necessary, including, where appropriate, domestic legislation, to ensure that criminal acts within the scope of this Convention, in particular where they are intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature and are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature.​​We resolve to undertake the following measures to prevent and combat terrorism, in particular by denying terrorists access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks → See  Annex to  *A/RES/60/288. The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*:
> ​To strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money-laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials;​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Over and above concepts and strategies mentioned, supra, Israel has a Right to protect its citizens from the actions of external rouge populations that threaten the public order and safety its citizens and national interests.
> 
> Since the unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), thousands and thousands of rockets and mortars have been fired into Israel from the terrorist government and its associated satellite entities. All mariners were advised that *as of 03 January 2009, 1700 UTC, Gaza maritime area was closed* to all maritime traffic and is under blockade imposed by Israeli Navy until further notice.  This action was not a punitive measure → but rather → a preventative measure necessary to be implemented as an outcome for the abuses of the freedom _(kidnapping, Murder, Indiscriminate fire, routine targeting of civilians, etc)_ the Arab Palestinians acquired as a result of the unilateral withdrawal.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have demonstrated that they pose a danger and repeatedly threatened to Israeli life style and culture over the last seven decades.  The Arab Higher Committee reaffirmed  that the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom.
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Holy irrelevance, Batman.

All of that crapola based on false premise.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Palestinian Literary License to Exaggerate
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: There is no "siege."  That is just propaganda flare to  capture the emotion of the _(target audience)_ readers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The siege is an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(JUST A FEW CONCEPTS)*
> 
> All sovereignties have the right to control their borders as they deem necessary.  (National Security, Customs and Immigration being the three biggest purposes.)
> 
> The issue of  Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) in All Its Aspects since the mid-1990's has become ever a reason to interdict such trade.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UN Security Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;​*SOURCE*:  *S/RES/2117 (2013)*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> *1997**International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> Each State Party shall adopt such measures as may be necessary, including, where appropriate, domestic legislation, to ensure that criminal acts within the scope of this Convention, in particular where they are intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature and are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature.​​We resolve to undertake the following measures to prevent and combat terrorism, in particular by denying terrorists access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks → See  Annex to  *A/RES/60/288. The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*:
> ​To strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money-laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials;​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Over and above concepts and strategies mentioned, supra, Israel has a Right to protect its citizens from the actions of external rouge populations that threaten the public order and safety its citizens and national interests.
> 
> Since the unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), thousands and thousands of rockets and mortars have been fired into Israel from the terrorist government and its associated satellite entities. All mariners were advised that *as of 03 January 2009, 1700 UTC, Gaza maritime area was closed* to all maritime traffic and is under blockade imposed by Israeli Navy until further notice.  This action was not a punitive measure → but rather → a preventative measure necessary to be implemented as an outcome for the abuses of the freedom _(kidnapping, Murder, Indiscriminate fire, routine targeting of civilians, etc)_ the Arab Palestinians acquired as a result of the unilateral withdrawal.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have demonstrated that they pose a danger and repeatedly threatened to Israeli life style and culture over the last seven decades.  The Arab Higher Committee reaffirmed  that the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom.
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy irrelevance, Batman.
> 
> All of that crapola based on false premise.
Click to expand...

It's hilarious to watch you reel in panic mode.


----------



## Hollie

In some parts of the world, evidence tampering, destruction of evidence, aiding & abetting a crime, etc., are crimes. In the alternate reality of a particular Islamic terrorist enclave, the dictator takes the lead in committing crimes. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				





*Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah defends terror attack and calls to erase evidence in security cameras*
Itamar Marcus  | May 3, 2021
Fatah posted on its Facebook page (of Nablus branch) today a call to Palestinians in the area of the escape route taken by a terrorist who shot and critically injured two Israelis yesterday, to delete the video footage on their security cameras that might have evidence that will enable Israel to catch the terrorist:


> “Our lauded people, honored members of our people, *we call on you to get rid of the contents that were stored in the [security] cameras of your homes or your businesses today*, and not to transfer any media content among yourselves."
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, May 2, 2021]


In a second post on Facebook by the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture, clearly in response although not specifically mentioning yesterday’s terror attack, expressed its support for terror against Israelis:


> *“The Fatah Movement’s Nablus branch emphasized that resistance is a natural right of the Palestinian people against the Zionist arrogance.”*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, May 2, 2021]


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  The challenge
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: One can only imagine what "premise" you might be referring.



P F Tinmore said:


> Holy irrelevance, Batman.
> All of that crapola based on false premise.


*(COMMENT)*

You whine about the rights of the criminal elements that make-up the greater body of Arab Palestinians.  I would say that they forfeited those rights many times over.

What is the "premise?"  Don't be vague, spit it out...





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  The challenge
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: One can only imagine what "premise" you might be referring.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy irrelevance, Batman.
> All of that crapola based on false premise.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You whine about the rights of the criminal elements that make-up the greater body of Arab Palestinians.  I would say that they forfeited those rights many times over.
> 
> What is the "premise?"  Don't be vague, spit it out...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

You assume that the Palestinians are the aggressors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.
> 
> Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.


Yep, time for Israel to blow up some more civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  The challenge
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: One can only imagine what "premise" you might be referring.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy irrelevance, Batman.
> All of that crapola based on false premise.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You whine about the rights of the criminal elements that make-up the greater body of Arab Palestinians.  I would say that they forfeited those rights many times over.
> 
> What is the "premise?"  Don't be vague, spit it out...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You assume that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
Click to expand...

No assumption required. 









						36 rockets fired at Israel overnight; IDF hits Gaza terror targets in response
					

Rocket salvos fired after Hamas calls for attacks on Israel over Jerusalem unrest; barrages, reported in real-time by terror group, mark worst assault from Strip in many months




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.
> 
> Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, time for Israel to blow up some more civilians.
Click to expand...

The Pally's insist on waging war from civilian areas.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  The challenge
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Within 24 hours of Israel declaring independence with the support of the UN Palestine Commission, the Arab League (not Arab Palestinians) entered the territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, and began the occupation of the territory under dispute today.


P F Tinmore said:


> You assume that the Palestinians are the aggressors.


*(DIRECT RESPONSE)*

Absolutely not...  I consider the Arab League to be a type of foreign aggressor.

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians_ (assumed the role of Jihadists, Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ began a seventy year progressive program of anti-Israeli activities.  And since that time, the Arab Palestinians have become subversion, sedition, sabotage having become the eras more preeminent cultures that principle performs Criminal Acts directed against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.

But actually, the foreign militaries of the Arab League were actually the aggressors that originally used armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, and  placed under the territory _(which included the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ under the authority of Arab League Armed Forces.

Israel, with a government which is proven much more stable than any of the adjacent Arab States, has remained consistantly higher in economic and commercial development than any of the adjacent neighbors.  






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Absolutely not... I consider the Arab League to be a type of foreign aggressor.


Starting history in the middle?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not... I consider the Arab League to be a type of foreign aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> Starting history in the middle?
Click to expand...

Trying to justify Arab colonialism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians_ (assumed the role of Jihadists, Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_


WOW, trope city.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians_ (assumed the role of Jihadists, Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, trope city.
Click to expand...

It’s accurate and your feelings are hurt.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*


----------



## Mindful

> Hamas apologized to Palestinian journalist Riwa Murshid on Friday, after she was attacked by a member of the Islamist terror group’s security services, allegedly because she was not wearing a hijab.
> Hamas Interior Ministry spokesperson Iyad al-Bozm said that the group was “presenting an apology to Riwa Murshid,” following the results of an investigation into the officer’s conduct. Al-Bozm added that the ministry would imprison the officer involved.
> 
> “There was an argument between Murshid and one of the members of the Breach Defenders [a Hamas military unit], who then broke the guidelines for dealing with civilians. He beat her with a tree branch before his colleague rectified the incident and allowed them to leave,” al-Bozm said.


I wonder what object their guidelines do specify to beat civilians with.


Meanwhile, I haven’t seen a word about this from the likes of Linda Sarsour, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, and Roger Waters. Maybe they are just being generally quiet – I seem to have missed their expression of condolences over the 45 dead Jews at Mount Meron as well, after all.

Nor have I seen a word condemning this from any of the so-called human rights campaigners of the woke Left. Perhaps we need to highlight that the Hamas-hole broke off a tree branch (an environmental no-no) to twig them into action.
But seriously, this should tell you all you need to know about these hypocrites. They stand for hatred against Israel and the Jewish people, not for palestinian Arab rights.









						Usual Suspects Silent After Hamas Officer Beats Female Palestinian Journalist
					

A Hamas-hole has beaten palestinian Arab journalist Riwa Murshid, and the likes of Linda, Rashida and Ilhan have not uttered a word




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.

Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.












						Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
					

JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...




					apnews.com
				





JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.

Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.


----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, calls for the islamic religious duty of 
gee-had have consequences.

We continue to make the mistake of attaching the "Islamic extremist" label to these calls when these are pious Moslems who know their koranology.









						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




Palestinian Media Watch
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Just days before 3 terror attacks: Abbas advisor tells Palestinians to fight Israel, even to death – “this is what Islam wants of you!”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | May 4, 2021
*Religious lesson by Abbas’ advisor on official PA TV:*​
*“Islam does not want you to be submissive to others, it wants you to be powerful, ruling, strong, dignified, proud”*​
*“Don’t be a coward! Don't be fearful! Don’t be submissive!”*​
*If you die fighting, you go to “Paradise”; If you kill the enemies, they go to “hell”*​
Just days before three terror attacks against Israel, a top PA religious official and advisor to PA Chairman Abbas implicitly urged Palestinians to continue “to fight” Israel - even if they get killed in the process because “this is what Islam wants!”


----------



## Hollie

While Miami seems like a long way from the gee-had in the Islamic occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank, the more exciteable ummah'ists still fancy themselves as 7th century gee-had wannabes.
​​*Friday Sermon by Miami Imam: We Will Take Palestine Back and Live in the Israeli Settlements *​​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.


We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
Click to expand...


They can vote for the wrong people.....again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
Click to expand...

You're floating another conspiracy theory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
Click to expand...

Look at the assholes we vote for.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
Click to expand...


At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
Click to expand...

We don't have a foreign country kidnapping our candidates.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're floating another conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy theory is a CIA propaganda term.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We don't have a foreign country kidnapping our candidates.
Click to expand...

You’re conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're floating another conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conspiracy theory is a CIA propaganda term.
Click to expand...

Of course, dear.


----------



## Hollie

Khaled was at the head of his class at the “How to Win Friends and Influence People” course at the local gee-had academy.
​Head of Hamas Diaspora Office: To Hell with Worthless Scum that Supported Normalization with Israel​**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> We don't have a foreign country kidnapping our candidates.



Somebody is kidnapping your Hamas terrorist buddies?


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.
> 
> Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, time for Israel to blow up some more civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pally's insist on waging war from civilian areas.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.
The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.



They never had a country, how could they be invaded?


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> While Miami seems like a long way from the gee-had in the Islamic occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank, the more exciteable ummah'ists still fancy themselves as 7th century gee-had wannabes.
> ​​*Friday Sermon by Miami Imam: We Will Take Palestine Back and Live in the Israeli Settlements *​​



Wrong.
Jihad just means working hard to try to do things right, according to ethical principles.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.
> The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.
Click to expand...

*
It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.*

How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?

*The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.*

Why do they need polling stations in Israel?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Jihad just means working hard to try to do things right, according to ethical principles.



No matter how many infidels need to be murdered......ethically, of course.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The never had a country, how could they be invaded?
Click to expand...


Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.
It was arranged by Lawrence of Arabia, who was authorized to promise Palestinian independence in exchange for help defeating the Ottoman Empire.
The Palestinians did their part.
The British never finished theirs, because the Zionist murdered the British command by blowing up the King David hotel, killing about 100 people.

Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
It was Menachim Begin.

And by the way, do not believe the lies Zionist try to claim, that they called in a warning to get the building evacuated.
The bombs were placed in the basement kitchen, and to do that they had to tie up the staff next to the bombs.
So clearly there was no warning called in and could not have been one, since the tied up staff would have been found and the bombs disarmed.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The never had a country, how could they be invaded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.
> It was arranged by Lawrence of Arabia, who was authorized to promise Palestinian independence in exchange for help defeating the Ottoman Empire.
> The Palestinians did their part.
> The British never finished theirs, because the Zionist murdered the British command by blowing up the King David hotel, killing about 100 people.
> 
> Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.
> 
> And by the way, do not believe the lies Zionist try to claim, that they called in a warning to get the building evacuated.
> The bombs were placed in the basement kitchen, and to do that they had to tie up the staff next to the bombs.
> So clearly there was no warning called in and could not have been one, since the tied up staff would have been found and the bombs disarmed.
Click to expand...


*Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.*

And yet, at no point was it a country.

*Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
It was Menachim Begin.*

And?


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.
> The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.*
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> *The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.*
> 
> Why do they need polling stations in Israel?
Click to expand...


Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
Jerusalem is not in Israel, but is home to millions of Palestinians the Israelis won't allow to vote.
Look at the 1948 UN partition.
Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The never had a country, how could they be invaded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.
> It was arranged by Lawrence of Arabia, who was authorized to promise Palestinian independence in exchange for help defeating the Ottoman Empire.
> The Palestinians did their part.
> The British never finished theirs, because the Zionist murdered the British command by blowing up the King David hotel, killing about 100 people.
> 
> Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.
> 
> And by the way, do not believe the lies Zionist try to claim, that they called in a warning to get the building evacuated.
> The bombs were placed in the basement kitchen, and to do that they had to tie up the staff next to the bombs.
> So clearly there was no warning called in and could not have been one, since the tied up staff would have been found and the bombs disarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.*
> 
> And yet, at no point was it a country.
> 
> *Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.*
> 
> And?
Click to expand...

Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.
In contrast, Israel has no legal existence, and the UN just arbitrarily declared them to exist in 1948, without any legal authority to do so.

And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is, that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad just means working hard to try to do things right, according to ethical principles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how many infidels need to be murdered......ethically, of course.
Click to expand...


The Quran prohibits murder, and infidel means unfaithful, which refers to apostates only really.
Christianity and Judaism are recognized under Islam as the same religion as Islam.
They share the same Old Testament.
Go back and read history, and you will see that when Mohammad attack Mecca from Medina, he did so almost entirely with Jewish troops.  The Jews were Mohammad's main allies.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.
> The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.*
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> *The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.*
> 
> Why do they need polling stations in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> Jerusalem is not in Israel, but is home to millions of Palestinians the Israelis won't allow to vote.
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
Click to expand...


*Jerusalem is not in Israel, *

Sure it is.

*but is home to millions of Palestinians the Israelis won't allow to vote.*

The entire population of Jerusalem is less than one million, how do you figure millions of Muslims live there?

*Look at the 1948 UN partition.*

The one the Arabs rejected? What about it?

*Jerusalem is no where near Israel.*

DURR
*
The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.*

You appear to be mistaken......again.



			https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisrael/state/pages/jerusalem%20-%20capital%20of%20israel.aspx


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The never had a country, how could they be invaded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.
> It was arranged by Lawrence of Arabia, who was authorized to promise Palestinian independence in exchange for help defeating the Ottoman Empire.
> The Palestinians did their part.
> The British never finished theirs, because the Zionist murdered the British command by blowing up the King David hotel, killing about 100 people.
> 
> Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.
> 
> And by the way, do not believe the lies Zionist try to claim, that they called in a warning to get the building evacuated.
> The bombs were placed in the basement kitchen, and to do that they had to tie up the staff next to the bombs.
> So clearly there was no warning called in and could not have been one, since the tied up staff would have been found and the bombs disarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.*
> 
> And yet, at no point was it a country.
> 
> *Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.*
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.
> In contrast, Israel has no legal existence, and the UN just arbitrarily declared them to exist in 1948, without any legal authority to do so.
> 
> And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is, that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.
Click to expand...


*Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.*

No it wasn't.

*In contrast, Israel has no legal existence*

It has legally existed for over 70 years.

*And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is*

Did you have a problem with that gay Egyptian terrorist?
*
that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.*

Like voting in Hamas?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad just means working hard to try to do things right, according to ethical principles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how many infidels need to be murdered......ethically, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Quran prohibits murder, and infidel means unfaithful, which refers to apostates only really.
> Christianity and Judaism are recognized under Islam as the same religion as Islam.
> They share the same Old Testament.
> Go back and read history, and you will see that when Mohammad attack Mecca from Medina, he did so almost entirely with Jewish troops.  The Jews were Mohammad's main allies.
Click to expand...


*The Quran prohibits murder,*

Quick, tell all the Muslims who use it to justify murder......

*They share the same Old Testament.*

Quick, tell all the Muslims who want to murder all the Christians and Jews.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are upset that the dictator occupying the mini-caliphate next door has canceled elections.
> 
> Hamas has decided that a “coup” has taken place. I guess it’s time to settle the matter as Islamic caliphate’ists settle such matters and litter the streets with dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas delays Palestinian elections; Hamas slams 'coup'
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.
> 
> Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
> 
> 
> 
> We are a democracy so we can't allow the Palestinians to vote for the wrong people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can vote for the wrong people.....again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the assholes we vote for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least our assholes allow elections every 2-4 years, unlike your assholes in Gaza and WB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.
> The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It is Israel that prevents Palestinian elections.*
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> *The Palestinian request the ability to establish polling stations and are denied.*
> 
> Why do they need polling stations in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> Jerusalem is not in Israel, but is home to millions of Palestinians the Israelis won't allow to vote.
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Jerusalem is not in Israel, *
> 
> Sure it is.
> 
> *but is home to millions of Palestinians the Israelis won't allow to vote.*
> 
> The entire population of Jerusalem is less than one million, how do you figure millions of Muslims live there?
> 
> *Look at the 1948 UN partition.*
> 
> The one the Arabs rejected? What about it?
> 
> *Jerusalem is no where near Israel.*
> 
> DURR
> 
> *The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.*
> 
> You appear to be mistaken......again.
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisrael/state/pages/jerusalem%20-%20capital%20of%20israel.aspx
Click to expand...


Jerusalem has always been the capital of Palestine, and only about 30k Jews lived in the Jerusalem.
And even those illegally turned on the Palestinians and tried to take over in 1948, so were kicked out.
So there was no Jewish native population at all in Jerusalem.

But there are only 6 million Jews in Israel now, but there are 12 million Moslems in Israel and Palestine.\

The Arabs were right to reject the 1948 UN partition because it gave the Jews who were the one third minority, over half the territory.

The UN and the whole world says the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
Jerusalem is not inside Israel.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The never had a country, how could they be invaded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.
> It was arranged by Lawrence of Arabia, who was authorized to promise Palestinian independence in exchange for help defeating the Ottoman Empire.
> The Palestinians did their part.
> The British never finished theirs, because the Zionist murdered the British command by blowing up the King David hotel, killing about 100 people.
> 
> Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.
> 
> And by the way, do not believe the lies Zionist try to claim, that they called in a warning to get the building evacuated.
> The bombs were placed in the basement kitchen, and to do that they had to tie up the staff next to the bombs.
> So clearly there was no warning called in and could not have been one, since the tied up staff would have been found and the bombs disarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.*
> 
> And yet, at no point was it a country.
> 
> *Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.*
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.
> In contrast, Israel has no legal existence, and the UN just arbitrarily declared them to exist in 1948, without any legal authority to do so.
> 
> And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is, that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.*
> 
> No it wasn't.
> 
> *In contrast, Israel has no legal existence*
> 
> It has legally existed for over 70 years.
> 
> *And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is*
> 
> Did you have a problem with that gay Egyptian terrorist?
> 
> *that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.*
> 
> Like voting in Hamas?
Click to expand...


The Treaty of San Remo  and Sevres legally created Palestine because all the countries with any authority agreed to it.
Including the US, the Palestinians, Turkey, the Jews, England, France, Germany, etc.

Israel is not legal because the UN had no authority to create it, and Israel violated all the UN accords.

Menachim Began admits to blowing up 100 innocent people, including civilians.
Nothing the Arabs did is nearly as bad, and the Arabs are justified with much more destruction in defense.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad just means working hard to try to do things right, according to ethical principles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how many infidels need to be murdered......ethically, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Quran prohibits murder, and infidel means unfaithful, which refers to apostates only really.
> Christianity and Judaism are recognized under Islam as the same religion as Islam.
> They share the same Old Testament.
> Go back and read history, and you will see that when Mohammad attack Mecca from Medina, he did so almost entirely with Jewish troops.  The Jews were Mohammad's main allies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Quran prohibits murder,*
> 
> Quick, tell all the Muslims who use it to justify murder......
> 
> *They share the same Old Testament.*
> 
> Quick, tell all the Muslims who want to murder all the Christians and Jews.
Click to expand...


Moslems do not commit murder.
They only kill when necessary in defense.

No Moslem ever wanted to kill Christians or Jews.
Moslems ruled over Jews and Christian for over 1500 years in the Mideast and did not harm them.
In fact, the did better under Moslems than under Crusaders.
Look at the Spanish Inquisition.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Jerusalem has always been the capital of Palestine, and only about 30k Jews lived in the Jerusalem.
> And even those illegally turned on the Palestinians and tried to take over in 1948, so were kicked out.
> So there was no Jewish native population at all in Jerusalem.
> 
> But there are only 6 million Jews in Israel now, but there are 12 million Moslems in Israel and Palestine.\
> 
> The Arabs were right to reject the 1948 UN partition because it gave the Jews who were the one third minority, over half the territory.
> 
> The UN and the whole world says the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> Jerusalem is not inside Israel.


*Jerusalem has always been the capital of Palestine, *

Palestine has never been a country.

*But there are only 6 million Jews in Israel now, but there are 12 million Moslems in Israel and Palestine.*

I don't believe you. Show your math.

*The Arabs were right to reject the 1948 UN partition *

How'd that work out for them?

*because it gave the Jews who were the one third minority, over half the territory.*

What are you talking about? The Arabs got over 70% of the Mandate.
They'd have much more if they hadn't fucked up every opportunity.

*The UN and the whole world says the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.*

So what? You could say Moscow was the capital of India, you don't get a vote either.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The never had a country, how could they be invaded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.
> It was arranged by Lawrence of Arabia, who was authorized to promise Palestinian independence in exchange for help defeating the Ottoman Empire.
> The Palestinians did their part.
> The British never finished theirs, because the Zionist murdered the British command by blowing up the King David hotel, killing about 100 people.
> 
> Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.
> 
> And by the way, do not believe the lies Zionist try to claim, that they called in a warning to get the building evacuated.
> The bombs were placed in the basement kitchen, and to do that they had to tie up the staff next to the bombs.
> So clearly there was no warning called in and could not have been one, since the tied up staff would have been found and the bombs disarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine existed before the Ottoman invasion, but was declared liberated again by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres in 1919 and 1920.*
> 
> And yet, at no point was it a country.
> 
> *Want to know who the terrorist was who placed the bombs in the King David hotel?
> It was Menachim Begin.*
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.
> In contrast, Israel has no legal existence, and the UN just arbitrarily declared them to exist in 1948, without any legal authority to do so.
> 
> And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is, that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.*
> 
> No it wasn't.
> 
> *In contrast, Israel has no legal existence*
> 
> It has legally existed for over 70 years.
> 
> *And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is*
> 
> Did you have a problem with that gay Egyptian terrorist?
> 
> *that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.*
> 
> Like voting in Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Treaty of San Remo  and Sevres legally created Palestine because all the countries with any authority agreed to it.
> Including the US, the Palestinians, Turkey, the Jews, England, France, Germany, etc.
> 
> Israel is not legal because the UN had no authority to create it, and Israel violated all the UN accords.
> 
> Menachim Began admits to blowing up 100 innocent people, including civilians.
> Nothing the Arabs did is nearly as bad, and the Arabs are justified with much more destruction in defense.
Click to expand...


*The Treaty of San Remo and Sevres legally created Palestine*

Can you copy and paste the part where it said Palestine was a country on that date?

*Israel is not legal because the UN had no authority to create it, *

The UN didn't create Israel.

*Menachim Began admits to blowing up 100 innocent people, including civilians.*

So that gay Egyptian terrorist was okay with you?

*and the Arabs are justified with much more destruction in defense.*

And how's that working out for them?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad just means working hard to try to do things right, according to ethical principles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how many infidels need to be murdered......ethically, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Quran prohibits murder, and infidel means unfaithful, which refers to apostates only really.
> Christianity and Judaism are recognized under Islam as the same religion as Islam.
> They share the same Old Testament.
> Go back and read history, and you will see that when Mohammad attack Mecca from Medina, he did so almost entirely with Jewish troops.  The Jews were Mohammad's main allies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The Quran prohibits murder,*
> 
> Quick, tell all the Muslims who use it to justify murder......
> 
> *They share the same Old Testament.*
> 
> Quick, tell all the Muslims who want to murder all the Christians and Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Moslems do not commit murder.
> They only kill when necessary in defense.
> 
> No Moslem ever wanted to kill Christians or Jews.
> Moslems ruled over Jews and Christian for over 1500 years in the Mideast and did not harm them.
> In fact, the did better under Moslems than under Crusaders.
> Look at the Spanish Inquisition.
Click to expand...


*Moslems do not commit murder.*

Dude! Do you have a prescription for that stuff you're on?

*No Moslem ever wanted to kill Christians or Jews.*

Mad cow disease? That's always sad.......

*Look at the Spanish Inquisition.*

Look at Khomeini.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The challenge
⁜→ Rigby 5, et al,

*BLUF*:  Well, neither the *San Remo Agreement* (1920) nor the *Treaty of Sevres* (1920) created any country.  And the Treaty of Sevres was never ratified by the Government of the Turkish Republic.  The Treaty of Sevres was replaced by the *Treaty of Lausanne* (Signed 1923).


Rigby5 said:


> Palestine was created legally as a country by the treaties of San Remo and Sevres.
> 
> In contrast, Israel has no legal existence, and the UN just arbitrarily declared them to exist in 1948, without any legal authority to do so.
> 
> And the point of Menachim Begin setting the bombs that murdered the British command in Palestine, is that it shows how criminal Israel is, that it would vote in a horrific criminal as Prime Minister.


*(COMMENT)*

The San Remo Agreement was an agreement between the four Principal Allied Powers, not with any other nation.

SECTION VII • SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE • ARTICLE 94 thru 97 • Treaty of Sevres dealt with the Mandate Territories.  The most significant aspect was:

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the *administration of Palestine*, *within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers*, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.​
SECTION I • TERRITORIAL CLAUSES • ARTICLE 16 • Treaty of Lausanne, dealt with the breakup and partitioning of the territories situated outside the frontiers, as agreed upon by the French and the British Governments in the Sykes-Picot Agreement and the *Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920* (#564 sometimes referred to as the Paulet-Newcombe Line)(Article 8).  Once again, these two important agreements were strictly between the British and French Governments.  The significant aspect of the treaty, relative to the Region of Palestine: 

*Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.*​
There is a great difference between the boundaries set between the Principal Allied Powers establishing a Mandate Territory Boundary and your interpretation of what it all means in your Posting.  To imply that a Sovereignty called "Palestine" was created by the Allied Powers is simply wrong.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?


Both of these are incorrect.
Hamas won in all of Palestine.
Fatah lost in all of Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The challenge
⁜→  et al,

The act of aggression by the Arab League, and their subsequent occupations and/or annexations went a long way to altering the intended outcome.

There is no way of knowing today what might have happened in the ensuing half-century if the Arab League had not entered the fray.

What we do know is that the Arab Higher Committee and the Arab League took actions and/or rejected offers to participate in self-governing institutions that contributed heavily to the development of the political situation a century later.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
Click to expand...


You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
Click to expand...

Israel allowed the 2006 election.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
Click to expand...


You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
Click to expand...

They are now, They didn't then.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
Click to expand...


How's that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
Click to expand...

Israel will not allow the Palestinians in Jerusalem to vote.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists expect a flare up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for Israel to whine about a few rockets again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's a few rockets after the last few rockets?
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> If, as you claim, the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, that would suggest that the islamic terrorists firing rockets from their islamic terrorist ''state'' are committing an act of war against Israel with just a few rockets. Aren't you excited about the prospect for a few more martyrs? Get your Pom Poms ready.
> 
> Can you guess what would prevent the need for an Israeli retaliation?
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> All seriousness aside, time for the islamic terrorists to whine about a few airstrikes in retaliation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, time for Israel to blow up some more civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pally's insist on waging war from civilian areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The Palestinians have never had arms or an army, so are conducting defensive insurgency against an illegal invader.
Click to expand...

Define “illegal invader”.  I suspect you’re addled by slogans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
Click to expand...

“In all of Pal’istan” is a nonsense statement. Fatah controls the West Bank while Hamas controls Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow the Palestinians in Jerusalem to vote.
Click to expand...

Jerusalem is not “all of Pal’istan”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “In all of Pal’istan” is a nonsense statement. Fatah controls the West Bank while Hamas controls Gaza.
Click to expand...

Indeed, that is one of my never answered questions. How did that happen?


----------



## Hollie

PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror




					www.palwatch.org
				





PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | May 5, 2021

*PA openly and intentionally breaks Israeli Anti-Terror law and pays salaries directly to terrorists after banks refused to be conduit for the terror payments*​
*PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror*​
As a direct result of action taken by Palestinian Media Watch, the banks operating in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and families of dead terrorists - the so-called “Martyrs.” PMW had notified the banks that if they continued to operate these accounts and accept terror reward payments from the PA into them, it would violate Israeli law, exposing them to civil and criminal liability. In response to PMW’s warning, the banks closed the accounts of the terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> “In all of Pal’istan” is a nonsense statement. Fatah controls the West Bank while Hamas controls Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that is one of my never answered questions. How did that happen?
Click to expand...

Indeed, that is another of the failures that broke the gee-had conquest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | May 5, 2021
> 
> *PA openly and intentionally breaks Israeli Anti-Terror law and pays salaries directly to terrorists after banks refused to be conduit for the terror payments*​
> *PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror*​
> As a direct result of action taken by Palestinian Media Watch, the banks operating in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and families of dead terrorists - the so-called “Martyrs.” PMW had notified the banks that if they continued to operate these accounts and accept terror reward payments from the PA into them, it would violate Israeli law, exposing them to civil and criminal liability. In response to PMW’s warning, the banks closed the accounts of the terrorists.


Fuck Israeli law. The PA is not in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | May 5, 2021
> 
> *PA openly and intentionally breaks Israeli Anti-Terror law and pays salaries directly to terrorists after banks refused to be conduit for the terror payments*​
> *PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror*​
> As a direct result of action taken by Palestinian Media Watch, the banks operating in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and families of dead terrorists - the so-called “Martyrs.” PMW had notified the banks that if they continued to operate these accounts and accept terror reward payments from the PA into them, it would violate Israeli law, exposing them to civil and criminal liability. In response to PMW’s warning, the banks closed the accounts of the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israeli law. The PA is not in Israel.
Click to expand...

Your feelings are hurt. 

The actions of your psychopath heroes are deadly to others.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | May 5, 2021
> 
> *PA openly and intentionally breaks Israeli Anti-Terror law and pays salaries directly to terrorists after banks refused to be conduit for the terror payments*​
> *PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror*​
> As a direct result of action taken by Palestinian Media Watch, the banks operating in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and families of dead terrorists - the so-called “Martyrs.” PMW had notified the banks that if they continued to operate these accounts and accept terror reward payments from the PA into them, it would violate Israeli law, exposing them to civil and criminal liability. In response to PMW’s warning, the banks closed the accounts of the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israeli law. The PA is not in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your feelings are hurt.
> 
> The actions of your psychopath heroes are deadly to others.
Click to expand...

Why should the Palestinians change their constitution to satisfy foreign name callers?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow the Palestinians in Jerusalem to vote.
Click to expand...


Then they should vote in areas outside of Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow the Palestinians in Jerusalem to vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then they should vote in areas outside of Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

Why should they?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW caused the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | May 5, 2021
> 
> *PA openly and intentionally breaks Israeli Anti-Terror law and pays salaries directly to terrorists after banks refused to be conduit for the terror payments*​
> *PMW notified Israel’s Minister of Defense Benny Gantz of the PA violations, stressing the importance of bringing the perpetrators to justice and seizing all the funds paid as rewards for terror*​
> As a direct result of action taken by Palestinian Media Watch, the banks operating in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and families of dead terrorists - the so-called “Martyrs.” PMW had notified the banks that if they continued to operate these accounts and accept terror reward payments from the PA into them, it would violate Israeli law, exposing them to civil and criminal liability. In response to PMW’s warning, the banks closed the accounts of the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israeli law. The PA is not in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your feelings are hurt.
> 
> The actions of your psychopath heroes are deadly to others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should the Palestinians change their constitution to satisfy foreign name callers?
Click to expand...

Indeed, you have no entitlement to inflict the results of your pathology on others.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Why should the Palestinians change their constitution to satisfy foreign name callers?



Those foreign name callers are the source of your welfare checks.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow the Palestinians in Jerusalem to vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then they should vote in areas outside of Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should they?
Click to expand...


Fine, don't vote.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally terrorists will need to bend and scrape before the Shia Mullucrats for a bigger allowance. 





__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				




In 2019, police raided offices belonging to Ansaar and another organisation on suspicion of financing the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which is on a European Union terrorism blacklist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> P F Tinmore said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How was Hamas elected in Gaza?
> How was Fatah elected in the West Bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these are incorrect.
> Hamas won in all of Palestine.
> Fatah lost in all of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel allowed the 2006 election.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to explain that to Rigby, he felt that Israel prevents Palestinian elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are now, They didn't then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow the Palestinians in Jerusalem to vote.
Click to expand...










						Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system - Islam Question & Answer
					






					www.google.com
				




Praise be to Allah.

Firstly: 

Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allaah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Plan
⁜→ Rigby5, et al,




Rigby5 said:


> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...



Rigby5 said:


> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.


*(COMMENT)*

No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.

◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
•  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Pally terrorists will need to bend and scrape before the Shia Mullucrats for a bigger allowance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2019, police raided offices belonging to Ansaar and another organisation on suspicion of financing the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which is on a European Union terrorism blacklist.


on *suspicion* of financing terrorist groups​
Any proof? I didn't see any.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
Click to expand...


Israel kicked some Arab ass......it was in all the papers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel kicked some Arab ass......it was in all the papers.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the question.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel kicked some Arab ass......it was in all the papers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the question.
Click to expand...


Is sure was the answer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel kicked some Arab ass......it was in all the papers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is sure was the answer.
Click to expand...

Does it answer the voices in your head?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel kicked some Arab ass......it was in all the papers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is sure was the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does it answer the voices in your head?
Click to expand...


It answers your constant whining.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ Rigby5, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elections are possible in Gaza, but that would not prove much, since the majority of Palestinians live in land occupied by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't understand your comment here.  I thought that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  Help me out and walk me through this...
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the 1948 UN partition.
> Jerusalem is no where near Israel.
> The legal capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No political plan survives intact after the first conflict engagement.  The *UN Partition Plan • Recommendation •  A/RES/181 (II)* is no different.  In fact, the implementation of A/RES/181 (II) Recommendation fell apart in the first 24 hours after the Mandate terminated when the Arab League jumped across the borders and began their military campaigns.
> 
> ◈     Jerusalem was not supposed to be part of the Arab State either.  Part III of the Recommendation​​ ◈    The Part II Boundaries for the Arab State and the Jewish State fell by the wayside and the Arab League occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.​​◈    There is no such thing as a "LEGAL" or "ILLEGAL" Capital except as may be stipulated under domestic law.  External Powers do not determine where the Capitol City is for another indepedent sovereignty (otherwise it would not be an idependent sovereignty).​​◈    The seat of government for Israel is determined by Israel, just in the same way as it is in America.  And it is the functional characteristics that determine of that location that practically stipulates where the seat of government is located.​​•  About 2km due West (270º) of the Jewish Quarter is the Government Campus.  In the Government Campus of Jerusalem you will find:​​✧  The Prime Minister Office​✧  The Knesset​✧  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs​✧  The Supreme Court​✧  The Ministry of Finance​
> •  The UN Charter [*Chapter I, Article 2(7)*] forbids interference within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel kicked some Arab ass......it was in all the papers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is sure was the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does it answer the voices in your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It answers your constant whining.
Click to expand...

A valid question is whining?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pally terrorists will need to bend and scrape before the Shia Mullucrats for a bigger allowance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2019, police raided offices belonging to Ansaar and another organisation on suspicion of financing the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which is on a European Union terrorism blacklist.
> 
> 
> 
> on *suspicion* of financing terrorist groups​
> Any proof? I didn't see any.
Click to expand...

You should send an email to the German government with a list of your demands.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Plan
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  I'm not sure where you get that from.



P F Tinmore said:


> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?


*(COMMENT)

IF* you reread *Posting #19182*, you will *THEN* see that I made a different point:

But actually, the foreign militaries of the Arab League were actually the aggressors that originally used armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, and placed under the territory _(which included the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ under the authority of Arab League Armed Forces.​





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> A valid question is whining?



Your constant whining is whining.
Now what else do you need to know about Arabs getting their asses kicked?


----------



## Hollie

​​​​_*Hamas Official Talal Nassar Blasts Muslims Who Offered Condolence to Israel Following Meron Stampede*_​


These folks could use some help for what ails them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure where you get that from.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> IF* you reread *Posting #19182*, you will *THEN* see that I made a different point:
> 
> But actually, the foreign militaries of the Arab League were actually the aggressors that originally used armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, and placed under the territory _(which included the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ under the authority of Arab League Armed Forces.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Is that a yes, no, or duck?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Plan
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure where you get that from.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> IF* you reread *Posting #19182*, you will *THEN* see that I made a different point:
> 
> But actually, the foreign militaries of the Arab League were actually the aggressors that originally used armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, and placed under the territory _(which included the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ under the authority of Arab League Armed Forces.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that a yes, no, or duck?
Click to expand...

Are you confused, misunderstanding or not paying attention?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status of Jerusalem
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*(REFERENCE)*



> On 31 JULY 1988 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank _(Including Jerusalem)._
> SOURCE:  *Disengagement from the West Bank*





P F Tinmore said:


> Is that a yes, no, or duck?


*(COMMENT)

ANSWER:*  No.

The total control of Jerusalem as Occupied Territory under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, came when Jordan abandon it and there was no other political entity able to extend sovereignty.

Jerusalem was NOT 'won' by any action → but was politically abandon by the Arabs political entities.  Up to that point, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem had Jordanian citizenship and representation (50% of the seats) in the → Jordanian Parliament.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status of Jerusalem
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> On 31 JULY 1988 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank _(Including Jerusalem)._
> 
> SOURCE:  *Disengagement from the West Bank*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a yes, no, or duck?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> ANSWER:*  No.
> 
> The total control of Jerusalem as Occupied Territory under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, came when Jordan abandon it and there was no other political entity able to extend sovereignty.
> 
> Jerusalem was NOT 'won' by any action → but was politically abandon by the Arabs political entities.  Up to that point, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem had Jordanian citizenship and representation (50% of the seats) in the → Jordanian Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.

The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality of islamic terrorist franchises, the Pally's missed another opportunity. 












						Top Hamas terrorist disqualified from Palestinian election
					

Ruled out for not appearing on the commission's final voter registry.




					www.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian Central Elections Commission has rejected the candidacy of a senior Hamas terrorist who is serving 46 consecutive life sentences and another 30 years in Israeli prison for directing three mass-casualty attacks in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status of Jerusalem
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> On 31 JULY 1988 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank _(Including Jerusalem)._
> 
> SOURCE:  *Disengagement from the West Bank*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a yes, no, or duck?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> ANSWER:*  No.
> 
> The total control of Jerusalem as Occupied Territory under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, came when Jordan abandon it and there was no other political entity able to extend sovereignty.
> 
> Jerusalem was NOT 'won' by any action → but was politically abandon by the Arabs political entities.  Up to that point, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem had Jordanian citizenship and representation (50% of the seats) in the → Jordanian Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> 
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
Click to expand...

The legal rulings coming out of your madrassah are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.



P F Tinmore said:


> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.


*(REFERENCE)*

​


			
				The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
			
		

> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​




​


			
				UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
			
		

> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​


​


> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.
> 
> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.
Click to expand...

Jordan never lost the territory, All of this this has been explained to you how many times now?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.
> 
> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.
Click to expand...

There was never any “Pally territory”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.
> 
> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was never any “Pally territory”.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> There was never any “Pally territory”.


From Rocco's post.

Parliament of the latter country to annex the *territory of Arab Palestine* to the Hashemite Kingdom.​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Prof. Susan M. Akram on the USA PATRIOT Act (recorded on 2001 Nov 10)​


----------



## ClaireH

I'm pretty amazed the true original land dwellers, the Phillistines, don't rise up to reclaim their lands! Are they Syrians now, or Jordanian, or ? 

I used to joke about this (in a non-offensive manner) about people starting a movement claiming to be first Canaanites (from Crete) who sought ownership of lands owned by their ancestors in 12th C. B.C.E. I can do silly well and enjoy the heck out of it.  

What tribes were there prior to 12th C.B.C recorded by historical records? Will more information be forthcoming about previous peoples with archaeological discoveries in ME?

"The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath."Philistine" comes from the Hebrew word Philistia, and the Greek rendering of the name, palaistinei, gives us the modern name "Palestine." 

I admit to not reading over the 1000 plus pages on this thread prior to asking my question, so if this has already been discussed my apologies


----------



## Rigby5

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.
> 
> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was never any “Pally territory”.
Click to expand...


Wrong.
The ONLY legal documents concerning Palestine or Israel are the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres in 1920, both of which affirm global recognition of Palestine, and that Jews were not to have any sovereignty at all.

Israel was not legally created in 1948 by the UN, because the UN did not have that authority.


----------



## Rigby5

ClaireH said:


> I'm pretty amazed the true original land dwellers, the Phillistines, don't rise up to reclaim their lands! Are they Syrians now, or Jordanian, or ?
> 
> I used to joke about this (in a non-offensive manner) about people starting a movement claiming to be first Canaanites (from Crete) who sought ownership of lands owned by their ancestors in 12th C. B.C.E. I can do silly well and enjoy the heck out of it.
> 
> What tribes were there prior to 12th C.B.C recorded by historical records? Will more information be forthcoming about previous peoples with archaeological discoveries in ME?
> 
> "The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath."Philistine" comes from the Hebrew word Philistia, and the Greek rendering of the name, palaistinei, gives us the modern name "Palestine."
> 
> I admit to not reading over the 1000 plus pages on this thread prior to asking my question, so if this has already been discussed my apologies



Wrong.
The Canaanites were not at all from Crete.
The Canaanites were Semitic, meaning Arab, and were in Jericho over 7000 years ago, so predate the Minoans on Crete, by at least several thousand years.
And the Philistines were not the original Palestinians or the only Palestinians.
Besides Canaanites, there were/are Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Urites, Amorites, etc.
The Philistines only inhabited about half of Gaza, and not much else.
But since they were prolific sailors, along with the Phoenicians, they were the source of the name Palestine, for the coast line.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Parliament of the latter country to annex the *territory of Arab Palestine* to the Hashemite Kingdom.



Territory of Arab Palestine?  Not country of Arab Palestine?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Israel was not legally created in 1948 by the UN, because the UN did not have that authority.



Who told you the UN created Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Parliament of the latter country to annex the *territory of Arab Palestine* to the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Territory of Arab Palestine?  Not country of Arab Palestine?
Click to expand...

So?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Parliament of the latter country to annex the *territory of Arab Palestine* to the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Territory of Arab Palestine?  Not country of Arab Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So?
Click to expand...


So, not a country. Never a country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Muslim woman ‘escorted off’ American Airlines flight​


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  It does not matter who recognized what or when.  The fact of the matter is that Jordan Annexed the West Bank and Jordan.

◈ So says Jordan.​In their official history.​​◈ So says the UN.​UN Conciliation Commission.​


			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.


*(COMMENT)*

This is, in my opinion, the *Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan* did not address the issue of national borders or boundaries.  All it said was:

"The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate *the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move*."  [Article IV (2)]​
"The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties *without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines* or to claims of either Party relating thereto." [Article VI (9)]​
One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) is that periodically the direction and policies of the external influences alter the descriptions and purposes of any previous decisions to fit their perception at any given time and _*de facto*_ political agenda. 

Today, everyone knows that there are no actual specific International Laws that actually cover the conditions and address the facts on the DTP.

Although the general perception is that the 1967 Conflict was a separate and distinct "war" [non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)] it is not.  It is an extension of the 1949 Arab League unilateral intervention [International Armed Conflict (AIC)] (*AIC 'vs' NIAC*) which had the outcome of long-term occupations.

Although the general perception is that Israel is an external influence that prevented the Arab Palestinians from exercising their Right of Self-Determination in the DTP, it was the UN that disallowed the voice of the West Bank Arab Palestinians from exercising the Right of Self-Determination as did the Arab League (_principally Jordan and Egypt_) that prevented functional autonomous governments from developing.  It was the Arab League that installed the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

Everything is an adaptation.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.


*(COMMENT)*

This is probably true.  It certainly is not to Israel's advantage to concede to such an interpretation.  The misrepresentation of that fact_ (the Green Line is some sort of border)_ for more than half a century has left to the persistent demand by the PLO/Palestinian Authority/Palestinian State for the proper boundary in a two-state solution → it should be based on pre-June 4th 1967 Armistice Line.

The Goal Posts on these issues have moved so many times, no authority is really sure where they are at.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.
> 
> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was never any “Pally territory”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was never any “Pally territory”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From Rocco's post.
> 
> Parliament of the latter country to annex the *territory of Arab Palestine* to the Hashemite Kingdom.​
Click to expand...

The reference is to territory. Nothing about your mythical ''new states''.


----------



## Hollie

Rigby5 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians_ (__Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli__)_ to assume language for this position, and adopt the "*ostrich effect*" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen.  Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation.  That did not change the reality of it actually happening.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
> The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The Official History Site of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River,* constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> *SOURCE*:  Excerpt: * Unification of the Two Banks*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING
> It was so agreed.​​Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the *Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. *He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​*SOURCE*:  *A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; *the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan*, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.
> *SOURCE*:  *Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51  9 October 1950*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen.  AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.
> 
> BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was never any “Pally territory”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The ONLY legal documents concerning Palestine or Israel are the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres in 1920, both of which affirm global recognition of Palestine, and that Jews were not to have any sovereignty at all.
> 
> Israel was not legally created in 1948 by the UN, because the UN did not have that authority.
Click to expand...

There was no '' global affirmation'' of a sovereign islamic Pal'istan'.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Muslim woman ‘escorted off’ American Airlines flight​


The hijab didn't seem terribly important when not used for propaganda


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *BLUF*: It does not matter who recognized what or when. The fact of the matter is that Jordan Annexed the West Bank and Jordan.
> 
> ◈ So says Jordan.In their official history.


Jordan said it did. The reast of the world said it did not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This is, in my opinion, the *Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan* did not address the issue of national borders or boundaries. All it said was:
> 
> "The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate *the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move*." [Article IV (2)]


Indeed, between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces not between Israel and Jordan. It had no affect on Palestine's borders. It was Palestine on both sides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine


There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It is an extension of the 1949 Arab League unilateral intervention [International Armed Conflict (AIC)] (*AIC 'vs' NIAC*) which had the outcome of long-term occupations.


Indeed, the 1948 war divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The misrepresentation of that fact_ (the Green Line is some sort of border)_ for more than half a century has left to the persistent demand by the PLO/Palestinian Authority/Palestinian State for the proper boundary in a two-state solution → it should be based on pre-June 4th 1967 Armistice Line.


There is no legal requirement for the Palestinians to accept any partition of Palestine. The Palestinians are moving away from that foreign imposed solution.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.
Click to expand...

You are correct in the sense that there is no dispute,  Your assignment of territory as Pally territory is nonsensical. That's not in dispute,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct in the sense that there is no dispute,  Your assignment of territory as Pally territory is nonsensical. That's not in dispute,
Click to expand...

You didn't see my post that quoted Rocco's post?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BLUF*: It does not matter who recognized what or when. The fact of the matter is that Jordan Annexed the West Bank and Jordan.
> 
> ◈ So says Jordan.In their official history.
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan said it did. The reast of the world said it did not.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

*Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States
26 December 1933*​
ARTICLE 3
*The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.* Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.

ARTICLE 6
The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by *international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable*.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.

The primary interest of states is the *conservation of peace*. *Differences of any nature which arise between them should be settled by recognized pacific methods*.

*(COMMENT)*

Two points in favor of "P F Tinmore."  It can be argued that: 

 Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) and its Arab Palestinian inhabitance did not have the Right to Self-Determination and therefore could not participate in the adoption of Annexation of April 1950.

The DTP was not a "state" and the Montevideo Convention does not apply.

*(THE WHY)*

• IF the International System disavows the Annexation, THEN the claim can be made that Israel invaded Arab Palestinian Territory.  

• IF the International System accepts the Annexation, THEN took Occupation over Jordanian Territory; and in 1988, the Jordanians abandon sovereignty over the DTP.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct in the sense that there is no dispute,  Your assignment of territory as Pally territory is nonsensical. That's not in dispute,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't see my post that quoted Rocco's post?
Click to expand...

You didn't understand what you posted?


----------



## P F Tinmore

THE STRENGTH OF SOLIDARITY | Spotlight on Nonviolence with Huwaida Arraf and Palestinian Resilience​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms. 













						Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 6, 2021

*Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”*​
*Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”*​
*Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror*​
The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.

Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 6, 2021
> 
> *Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”*​
> *Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”*​
> *Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror*​
> The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.
> 
> Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.


They are all foreign colonial settlers.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 6, 2021
> 
> *Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”*​
> *Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”*​
> *Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror*​
> The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.
> 
> Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are all foreign colonial settlers.
Click to expand...


I know, damn Muslim invaders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 6, 2021
> 
> *Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”*​
> *Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”*​
> *Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror*​
> The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.
> 
> Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are all foreign colonial settlers.
Click to expand...

That's the excuse you manufacture for condoning islamic terrorism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,


What does integrity mean?

Independent from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of *the rights of other states* according to international law.


Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • IF the International System disavows the Annexation, THEN the claim can be made that Israel invaded Arab Palestinian Territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) and its Arab Palestinian inhabitance did not have the Right to Self-Determination


Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable*.


The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) and its Arab Palestinian inhabitance did not have the Right to Self-Determination and therefore could not participate in the adoption of Annexation of April 1950.


I heard someplace that Jordan hand picked some Palestinian"leaders" to sign off on their annexation plan. This implies that the Palestinians had the sovereignty to make such a decision.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable*.
> 
> 
> 
> The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
Click to expand...


That is awesome! 
Who were the government officials of Palestine in 1932?
Who signed these agreements on the Palestinian side?
What was the currecy and the exchange rate with the US dollar?
Where was the currency minted/printed?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ARTICLE 8
> No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.


Palestine is the poster child of external interference.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable*.
> 
> 
> 
> The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is awesome!
> Who were the government officials of Palestine in 1932?
> Who signed these agreements on the Palestinian side?
> What was the currecy and the exchange rate with the US dollar?
> Where was the currency minted/printed?
Click to expand...

I don't know but the US had a separate trade agreement with Britain.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ARTICLE 8
> No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is the poster child of external interference.
Click to expand...

Pally's are poster children for failure and incompetence. 

Indeed, Hong Kong, Vietnam, South Korea and others have managed to overcome much worse and were able to thrive and succeed where the Pally's only managed to fail. 

Indeed, you want to wallow in your failures and blame others for what you can't accomplish.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) and its Arab Palestinian inhabitance did not have the Right to Self-Determination and therefore could not participate in the adoption of Annexation of April 1950.
> 
> 
> 
> I heard someplace that Jordan hand picked some Palestinian"leaders" to sign off on their annexation plan. This implies that the Palestinians had the sovereignty to make such a decision.
Click to expand...

I heard someplace that is just another excuse for Pally failure and incompetence.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable*.
> 
> 
> 
> The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is awesome!
> Who were the government officials of Palestine in 1932?
> Who signed these agreements on the Palestinian side?
> What was the currecy and the exchange rate with the US dollar?
> Where was the currency minted/printed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know but the US had a separate trade agreement with Britain.
Click to expand...


So you were wrong when you claimed we had a trade agreement with Palestine?
Nothing was signed by Palestinian officials?


----------



## ClaireH

Rigby5 said:


> ClaireH said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty amazed the true original land dwellers, the Phillistines, don't rise up to reclaim their lands! Are they Syrians now, or Jordanian, or ?
> 
> I used to joke about this (in a non-offensive manner) about people starting a movement claiming to be first Canaanites (from Crete) who sought ownership of lands owned by their ancestors in 12th C. B.C.E. I can do silly well and enjoy the heck out of it.
> 
> What tribes were there prior to 12th C.B.C recorded by historical records? Will more information be forthcoming about previous peoples with archaeological discoveries in ME?
> 
> "The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath."Philistine" comes from the Hebrew word Philistia, and the Greek rendering of the name, palaistinei, gives us the modern name "Palestine."
> 
> I admit to not reading over the 1000 plus pages on this thread prior to asking my question, so if this has already been discussed my apologies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> The Canaanites were not at all from Crete.
> The Canaanites were Semitic, meaning Arab, and were in Jericho over 7000 years ago, so predate the Minoans on Crete, by at least several thousand years.
> And the Philistines were not the original Palestinians or the only Palestinians.
> Besides Canaanites, there were/are Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Urites, Amorites, etc.
> The Philistines only inhabited about half of Gaza, and not much else.
> But since they were prolific sailors, along with the Phoenicians, they were the source of the name Palestine, for the coast line.
Click to expand...

Thanks for additional details, and your response prompting a search to find the latest archaelogicial findings. 

"The Aegean Sea surrounds Greece, as well as Crete, and has been home to thriving generations for millennia. Some scientists and historians believe that the Philistines and other sea peoples originated in this region before traveling to other lands. Many religious objects from the Philistine city of Ashdod resemble those found in Mycenaean Greece. They may have brought an early version of the Greek pantheon with them, and it assimilated into other pantheons in the region. *While this hypothesis is certainly plausible, we just don’t know much the Philistine religion. More archaeological evidence is needed to piece together the story of the Philistines were and where they came from.*








						DNA Reveals the Origins of the Ancient Philistines
					

32. According to the Bible, the Philistines were polytheists. Polytheism refers to the worship of...




					sciencesensei.com
				




"A genetic study was carried out on human remains found in the Philistine city of Ashkelon, located on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea north of the Gaza Strip using ancient DNA extracted from their bones. Scientists have discovered that this mysterious ancient group of people actually originated in southern Europe around 3,500 years ago in the early Iron Age. The exact origin is difficult to pin down,* it could be from anywhere in northern Italy, Sardinia, Greece, or Cyprus." *

We are witnessing amazing times of discovery and without question more will be coming soon for public knowledge. Who knows, maybe the scientists will find greater consensus, and then there will be those who will hold onto their previous convictions due to either a political, religious, or perhaps dual reasoning. Ethicial scientists do their best to discard all preconceived theories when proven to be wrong; let's hope these are the scientists who carry the largest megaphones.








						DNA Analysis Reveals Mysterious Origin of Biblical Philistines - Infinity Explorers
					

A handful of skeletons discovered in the Middle East have shed light on the backstory of the Philistines, described in the Bible as one of the Israelites main rivals.




					infinityexplorers.com
				




I found other sources that support the above conclusion that more information will be forthcoming with digging deeper into the historical roots..quite literally. If you don't accept the above sources as valid, I can provide others if requested to do so. Thanks for leading me to new information!


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al

BLUF:  This was listed very distinctly as an argumentative point.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) and its Arab Palestinian inhabitance did not have the Right to Self-Determination
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The argument goes like this. (*Unification of the Two Banks)*

"On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the *Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented*. Thirteen days later, *Parliament unanimously approved a motion *to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion."​
The West Bank Arab Palestinians were equally represented in the Jordanian Parliament (ie 50:50).  *IF* the vote was unanimous → *THEN* 100% of the West Bank Arab Palestinians voted for annexation.

By saying _(for whatever reason)_ that *IF* the UN and the International Community disavowed_ (claiming that the determination made by the West Bank Arab Palestinian Representatives was ILLEGAL or otherwise INVALID)_ *THEN* in essence, the West Bank Arab Palestinian were denied their Right of Self-Determination.​​*IF*, on the other hand, the UN and the International Community stated that it was a defective vote, but took no action (over several decades) to correct the defective nature of the Annexation action, *THEN* that amounts to tacit approval.​
*(NOTICE)*

At the risk of doing the research for my opponent (P F Tinmore) there is a somewhat complicated, and in the end - rather unuseful - document:

*THE LEGAL STATUS OF*https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/9614F8FC82DCA5DF852575D80069E0C0
*THE WEST BANK AND GAZA*
_Prepared for, and under the guidance of
the __*Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable*_
_*Rights of the Palestinian People*__ (CEIRPP)_​
What makes this so "unuseful is that" it mentions all of the arguments I've discussed over time.  Yet does not actually give an answer to the question:  What is the Legal Status of the West Bank and Gaza Strip?

This means that the real answer is NOT as cut'n'dry as our anti-Israeli counterparts make it out to be.  As our friend P F Timore is always asking for, they did not make a Map.  All this implies that the CEIRPP do not know and did not know the answer and at the time.  The *CEIRPP 2020 Annual Report *is no more insightful than any of their previous publication.

The complexion and the tone of the Report, a regurgitation of the Arab Palestinian complaints over the last decade _(while they were engaged in wholesale violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law)_, is exactly what you might expect from the representative complexion of the membership:

The Committee is composed of 25 Member States, representing different regional groups and supporting the international consensus for a two-State solution:​Cuba, Cyprus, Ecuador, Guinea, Guyana, India, Indonesia, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Madagascar, Malaysia, Mali, Malta, Namibia, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Senegal, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Tunisia, Turkey and Venezuela​
The 24 observers of the Committee are:​Algeria, Bangladesh, Bulgaria, China, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, the Niger, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, the Syrian Arab Republic, the United Arab Emirates, Viet Nam and Yemen, as well as the State of Palestine, the African Union, LAS and OIC.​​I suspect that at some point, the Israeli Government will get tired of being bombarded by the UN and the various anti-Israeli rhetoric and withdraw from the UN entirely maybe including the Geneva Convention in the process.
​Just My Thoughts,






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Trade Exhanges
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  We've gone over this before.



P F Tinmore said:


> What does integrity mean?
> 
> Independent from what?


*(COMMENT)*

Under International Law, - *territorial integrity* - While Article. 2(4) of the U.N. Charter proscribed the threat or use of force against, inter alia , ‘the territorial integrity . . . of any State’, no definition is provided as to what constitutes territorial integrity. 

Together with political independence, territorial integrity encompasses the totality of what is generally seen as the internal sovereignty of a State. See Crawford , The Creation of States in International Law (2nd ed.), passim .

(Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law pg 597)

 It is a concept that is used for political consumption.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.


*(COMMENT)*

You make this mistake so many time it is becoming a travesty.  *The 1932 US Trade negotiations was with the Government of Palestine (AKA: the British Government).*

The Passports were the same way.  Issued by the British Government.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I suspect that at some point, the Israeli Government will get tired of being bombarded by the UN and the various anti-Israeli rhetoric and withdraw from the UN entirely maybe including the Geneva Convention in the process.


Good idea. Israel lied to gain membership and has ducked its obligations since.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Trade Exhanges
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  We've gone over this before.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does integrity mean?
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Under International Law, - *territorial integrity* - While Article. 2(4) of the U.N. Charter proscribed the threat or use of force against, inter alia , ‘the territorial integrity . . . of any State’, no definition is provided as to what constitutes territorial integrity.
> 
> Together with political independence, territorial integrity encompasses the totality of what is generally seen as the internal sovereignty of a State. See Crawford , The Creation of States in International Law (2nd ed.), passim .
> 
> (Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law pg 597)
> 
> It is a concept that is used for political consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You make this mistake so many time it is becoming a travesty.  *The 1932 US Trade negotiations was with the Government of Palestine (AKA: the British Government).*
> 
> The Passports were the same way.  Issued by the British Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> We've gone over this before.


Do you mean like the territorial integrity of a country that has no defined territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *THE LEGAL STATUS OF*The Legal Status of the West Bank and Gaza - Study (1 January 1982)
> *THE WEST BANK AND GAZA*


I see nothing in here that obliges the Palestinians to partition Palestine or to create two states.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *THE LEGAL STATUS OF*The Legal Status of the West Bank and Gaza - Study (1 January 1982)
> *THE WEST BANK AND GAZA*


Thanks for the link.

The fourth argument, asserting that sovereignty may have rested with the native inhabitants of the territories, is based on the fact that the primary objective of the mandate system was to prepare the territories for self-government and on the Council's recognition of this area as an "A" mandate (prepared for provisional recognition).  The legal effect under international law of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations was to make of this territory a State in which was vested legal sovereignty over Palestine.

Professor Henry Cattan maintains:


"All the various views which have been expressed on the point - except that which considers sovereignty to reside in the inhabitants of the mandated territory - have now been abandoned or discredited.  None of the views that sought to rest sovereignty elsewhere than in the inhabitants of the mandated territory appears to rest on an acceptable legal or logical basis." 5/


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Demarcations and Borders
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  When you ask me about terminology, I generally cite the Legal Dictionary terminology.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Do you mean like the territorial integrity of a country that has no defined territory?


*(COMMENT)*

"Territorial Integrity" and "Defined Territory" are only related in that they have something to do with "territory."
​"Territorial Integrity" is an undefined concept.  The terminology of "Defined Territory"_ (as used in the Montevideo Convention)_ refers to lines mapped out or described by a closed perimeter onto the surface of the Earth which separates one sovereignty from another sovereignty.

You keep bringing up this notion (or implication) that Israel does not have recognized, by the adjacent nations, a parameter that defines its sovereignty.  Well it does and you have been given the reference before.  It is just not an answer you want to hear.

Posting #18112, Who are the Palestinians?  Part 2
Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

◈ *Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel* •​◈ *Golan Heights Law* •​◈ *Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace* (1979) •​◈ *Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I)*  (1993)​◈ *Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty* (1994) •​◈ *Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II*) (1995) •​◈ *Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon* (2000) •​
The Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the *Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921.*" From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain *(Treaty # 564)*. Treaty #564 is the *Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920*. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Demarcations and Borders
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Nothing written is an expressed and binding obligation that promises anything to the Arab Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE LEGAL STATUS OF*The Legal Status of the West Bank and Gaza - Study (1 January 1982)
> *THE WEST BANK AND GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The fourth argument, asserting that sovereignty may have rested with the native inhabitants of the territories, is based on the fact that the primary objective of the mandate system was to prepare the territories for self-government and on the Council's recognition of this area as an "A" mandate (prepared for provisional recognition).  The legal effect under international law of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations was to make of this territory a State in which was vested legal sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Professor Henry Cattan maintains:
> 
> 
> "All the various views which have been expressed on the point - except that which considers sovereignty to reside in the inhabitants of the mandated territory - have now been abandoned or discredited.  None of the views that sought to rest sovereignty elsewhere than in the inhabitants of the mandated territory appears to rest on an acceptable legal or logical basis." 5/
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

None of the Allied Powers or Associate Powers made an obligation to the Arab Palestinians.







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Demarcations and Borders
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  When you ask me about terminology, I generally cite the Legal Dictionary terminology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like the territorial integrity of a country that has no defined territory?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Territorial Integrity" and "Defined Territory" are only related in that they have something to do with "territory."
> ​"Territorial Integrity" is an undefined concept.  The terminology of "Defined Territory"_ (as used in the Montevideo Convention)_ refers to lines mapped out or described by a closed perimeter onto the surface of the Earth which separates one sovereignty from another sovereignty.
> 
> You keep bringing up this notion (or implication) that Israel does not have recognized, by the adjacent nations, a parameter that defines its sovereignty.  Well it does and you have been given the reference before.  It is just not an answer you want to hear.
> 
> Posting #18112, Who are the Palestinians?  Part 2
> Posting #647. Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
> 
> ◈ *Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel* •​◈ *Golan Heights Law* •​◈ *Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace* (1979) •​◈ *Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I)*  (1993)​◈ *Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty* (1994) •​◈ *Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II*) (1995) •​◈ *Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon* (2000) •​
> The Allied Powers set the boundaries. " Syria was set by the "frontier described in Article 8 of the *Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October 1921.*" From that point, the Mandate boundaries that partitioned Syria were determined between France and Great Britain *(Treaty # 564)*. Treaty #564 is the *Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920*. It is this Convention that documents the settlement of problems raised by the attribution connected with the French Mandates for Syria and Lebanon, as they relate to the Mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

OK, so?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Demarcations and Borders
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF: Nothing written is an expressed and binding obligation that promises anything to the Arab Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE LEGAL STATUS OF*The Legal Status of the West Bank and Gaza - Study (1 January 1982)
> *THE WEST BANK AND GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> The fourth argument, asserting that sovereignty may have rested with the native inhabitants of the territories, is based on the fact that the primary objective of the mandate system was to prepare the territories for self-government and on the Council's recognition of this area as an "A" mandate (prepared for provisional recognition).  The legal effect under international law of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations was to make of this territory a State in which was vested legal sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Professor Henry Cattan maintains:
> 
> 
> "All the various views which have been expressed on the point - except that which considers sovereignty to reside in the inhabitants of the mandated territory - have now been abandoned or discredited.  None of the views that sought to rest sovereignty elsewhere than in the inhabitants of the mandated territory appears to rest on an acceptable legal or logical basis." 5/
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of the Allied Powers or Associate Powers made an obligation to the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> None of the Allied Powers or Associate Powers made an obligation to the Arab Palestinians.


They didn't have to. The people of the place have sovereignty.





__





						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,  What does integrity mean?  Independent from what?



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## Mindful

Yesterday I posted how palestinian Arab terrorist Muntasir Shalabi, who shot three 19-year-old Jewish seminary students (killing one), came from the palestinian Arab equivalent of the Hollywood Hills.

His exact house has now been publicized  and it does not disappoint.

But you cannot put a price on hatred.









						As Expected, Yehuda Guetta’s Murderer Lived a Lifestyle of the Rich and Famous
					

Palestinian Arab terrorist Muntasir Shalabi's exact house has now been publicized and it does not disappoint




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians?  Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Sovereignty
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  This notion you have that territorial sovereignty has something to do with the "people of a place" is completely misguided.  Governments exercise sovereignty.  For most of the history_ (maybe as much as two Millenium - collectively)_ of the undefined territory called Palestine, the sovereignty was exercise remotely by an external power.  For the last 5000 years_ (at least as far back as 3000BC)_ the region under discussion changed hands by a dozen or more distinct powers.  And for nearly a thousand years - immediately prior to the Great War (WWI), the sovereignty of the region was not in the hands of the Arab Palestinians.

_✦ 333BC -- Alexander the Great captures Palestine.\_​​_✦ 141-63BC -- The Jews revolted and established an independent state. _​​_✦ 638AD -- Caliph Omar and the Seige of Jerusalem. The *Rashidun Caliphate.*_​​_✦ 1517 -- The Ottoman Empire rules Palestine for the 400 years _​​_✦ 1918 -- The Ottomans relinquish Palestine to the Allied Powers at the end of World War I._​


			
				P F Timore said:
			
		

> They didn't have to. The people of the place have sovereignty


*(COMMENT)*

This is an example of just how absurd your focus is.  While this may or may not be true of any given place and at any given time, during the time of the Ottoman Empire, the sovereignty emanated from the City of Edirne.

In most of the discussion here, we are talking about "territorial sovereignty."  And that has to do with the exclusive and competent authority and jurisdiction pertaining to a defined surface area bound by a recognized perimeter. 

You keep confusing the Government of Palestine as having something to do with the Arab Palestinians.  And that would be wrong (_100% Wrong_).  The Government of Palestine was the Administrative Base for the British High Commissioner.  The boundary for the territory under the Mandate for Palestine was within such boundaries as may be fixed by agreement among the Allied Powers (_principally the British and French_).  The territory was not otherwise defined.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE LEGAL STATUS OF*The Legal Status of the West Bank and Gaza - Study (1 January 1982)
> *THE WEST BANK AND GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> I see nothing in here that obliges the Palestinians to partition Palestine or to create two states.
Click to expand...

The Arabs-Moslems occupying the geographic area of Palestine will likely never be able to form a functioning state. It’s really not a matter for competing Islamic terrorist franchises to decide about land partitions.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Trade Exhanges
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  We've gone over this before.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does integrity mean?
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Under International Law, - *territorial integrity* - While Article. 2(4) of the U.N. Charter proscribed the threat or use of force against, inter alia , ‘the territorial integrity . . . of any State’, no definition is provided as to what constitutes territorial integrity.
> 
> Together with political independence, territorial integrity encompasses the totality of what is generally seen as the internal sovereignty of a State. See Crawford , The Creation of States in International Law (2nd ed.), passim .
> 
> (Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law pg 597)
> 
> It is a concept that is used for political consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US recognized Palestinian citizenship and passports. The US entered into a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You make this mistake so many time it is becoming a travesty.  *The 1932 US Trade negotiations was with the Government of Palestine (AKA: the British Government).*
> 
> The Passports were the same way.  Issued by the British Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've gone over this before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like the territorial integrity of a country that has no defined territory?
Click to expand...

Do you mean like your insistence on promoting ignorant slogans?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that at some point, the Israeli Government will get tired of being bombarded by the UN and the various anti-Israeli rhetoric and withdraw from the UN entirely maybe including the Geneva Convention in the process.
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea. Israel lied to gain membership and has ducked its obligations since.
Click to expand...

Another of your emotional outbursts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In most of the discussion here, we are talking about "territorial sovereignty."


The people of the place is the hinge of international law. Look at Montevideo. The core issues are a defined territory and a permanent population. You have a people and you have a place. The other items are derivatives. You could say that the people and the land are married. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated by foreign powers. The people hold the sovereignty in their territory.

Aggression, conquest, annexation, etc., etc., all hinge on this basic principle.





__





						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,  What does integrity mean?  Independent from what?



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The core issues are a defined territory and a permanent population. You have a people and you have a place. The other items are derivatives. You could say that the people and the land are married. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated by foreign powers. The people hold the sovereignty in their territory.



Exactly!!

Just ask the Germans in East Prussia.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In most of the discussion here, we are talking about "territorial sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> The people of the place is the hinge of international law. Look at Montevideo. The core issues are a defined territory and a permanent population. You have a people and you have a place. The other items are derivatives. You could say that the people and the land are married. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated by foreign powers. The people hold the sovereignty in their territory.
> 
> Aggression, conquest, annexation, etc., etc., all hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,  What does integrity mean?  Independent from what?
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com
Click to expand...

Did a Hamas politburo mouthpiece give you that?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Posted by Israel's premier bullshit site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by Israel's premier bullshit site.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Good old Bernardine. Talk about birds of a feather, eh?


----------



## Hollie

Gaza reporter says she was beaten for not wearing headscarf
					

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — A female Palestinian reporter said Thursday that a member of the Hamas-run border patrol in Gaza beat her with a tree branch for not wearing an Islamic headscarf last month, an incident that sparked a public outcry...




					trc.taboola.com
				





My goodness. What are we to do with women who don’t wear their prescribed islamic protective outerwear?


----------



## P F Tinmore

One State for All: a Palestinian feminist view
					

The experience of other colonized and oppressed people shows us that Palestinian women are most able to imagine a more just vision of our future, with a single democratic state for all its citizens in historical Palestine as its goal.




					mondoweiss.net


----------



## Hollie

There are obvious consequences to Islamic terrorist rocket attacks.











						24 Palestinians killed in Israeli air raids on Gaza
					

At least 106 others wounded in air strikes, Palestinian health ministry says, after Hamas fires rockets into Israel.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




More than a dozen Palestinians have been killed in Israeli air raids on the besieged Gaza Strip, according to the Palestinian health ministry, after Hamas launched rockets from the coastal territory towards Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas will need to beg the Iranian Mullocrats for more welfare money. 










						Jerusalem violence: Deadly air strikes hit Gaza after rocket attacks
					

Up to 20 people are killed as Israel's military responds to rocket fire towards Jerusalem.



					www.bbc.com
				





Jerusalem violence: Deadly air strikes hit Gaza after rocket attacks​







IMAGE COPYRIGHTMAHMUD HAMS/GETTY IMAGES
image captionThe Israeli military has conducted air strikes in the Gaza Strip
*Israel has launched air strikes against militant targets in the Gaza Strip, after rockets were fired from the territory towards Jerusalem.*


----------



## Mindful

The Palestinians are upset because Jews are being permitted to tour the Temple Mount. The Palestinians do not want to see Jews visiting their holy site; they do not want to see Jews in Jerusalem, and they do not want to see any Jew at all in the land that stretches from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.
No one is disputing the Palestinians' right to protest Israeli policies. Yet when the protests turn into large pro-Hamas demonstrations, with calls for bombing Tel Aviv and killing Jews, they expose the true deadly intention of the protesters.
When thousands of Palestinians chant "We are all Mohammed Deif" they are saying that they see themselves as terrorists ready to attack and destroy Israel. They are saying that Deif is their role model because he managed to murder many Jews and remains at large, despite Israeli attempts to apprehend or kill him.
Hamas owes its growing popularity to the anti-Israel inflammatory campaign waged in the Palestinian media, especially social media platforms, the mosques and public rhetoric of Palestinian leaders. Hamas also owes its popularity to the ongoing corruption and incompetence of the Palestinian Authority and its autocratic president, Mahmoud Abbas.
The demonstrations in favor of Hamas should also sound alarm bells with the Biden administration and serve as an accurate indicator as to Palestinian priorities. The Biden administration is talking about reviving the stalled peace process between Israel and the Palestinians on the basis of the "two-state solution." Hamas and the thousands of Palestinians who chanted slogans in support of Hamas and Deif, however, have a different solution in mind: the annihilation of Israel and the deaths of Jews --




 the more the merrier.









						Palestinians: Our True Goal is to Destroy Israel
					

The Palestinians are upset because Jews are being permitted to tour the Temple Mount. The Palestinians do not want to see Jews visiting their holy site; they do not want to see Jews in Jerusalem, and they do not want to see any Jew at all in the land




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

It seems the competing Islamic terrorist franchises are playing a game of oneupsmanship. In the realm of the islamic gee-had, bragging rights for the title of "winner" will be the franchise that suffers the greatest property damage and the larger body count of dead gee-had wannabes. 

I expect UNRWA will be forthcoming with more begging for donor welfare dollars to prepare for the next gee-had attacks. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




Abbas and Hamas compete politically by attacking Israel​Itamar Marcus  | May 11, 2021
*After Abbas succeeded to ignite Jerusalem,
Hamas felt political need to also attack*​
*With Abbas and his Fatah party leading the violent Palestinian rioting against Israel in the name of “protecting Jerusalem,” Hamas was left with no choice but to compete with Fatah by attacking Israel.*​
*Abbas demanded violence using the PA euphemism “peaceful popular resistance” – the Palestinian public understood*​
*Abbas’ Fatah: “The Fatah Movement with all its elements and leadership calls to continue this uprising” and calls “everyone to raise the level of confrontation in the coming days and hours in the Palestinian lands”*​
*Abbas’ Presidential Office Spokesman to Palestinians: “The battle of all battles has arrived… [the] “long struggle against a satanic colonialist force”*​
*The Fatah Revolutionary Council “called on all Fatah’s frameworks everywhere to act to support our people in occupied Jerusalem, who are fighting the occupation authorities’ incessant violations”*​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



When you're a failure at everything else, why wouldn't you smile?


----------



## Mindful

Sharansky reasons that until there is a fundamental internal transformation of Palestinian Arab society that embraces democracy, there can be no realistic negotiations. He roundly condemns Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as a dictator and a terrorist. He views his successor Mahmoud Abbas as a pale and equally corrupt reflection of his predecessor. Sharansky is under no illusions about Palestinian leaders. He believes that they still are wedded to the goal of Israel's elimination. Sharansky underscores his point by quoting Soviet dissident and creator of the USSR's hydrogen bomb, Andrei Sakharov: "Never trust a government more than it trusts its own people."
Sharansky comes down hard on the Iranian regime as ideologically the most dangerous of enemies, claiming that he is in agreement with prominent Iranian analysts such as, Uri Lubrani, the last Israeli unofficial ambassador to Iran; Dr. Bernard Lewis, the most accomplished western Islamic scholar, and Ron Dermer, the long-serving Israeli ambassador to the US. Sharansky has sharp words of condemnation for Barack Obama; he accuses the former US President of having abandoned Iran's dissidents by his refusal to offer even verbal support for anti-regime demonstrators during their nationwide protests in 2009.
Sharansky... is a fierce critic of the "new" campus-based anti-Semitism, and catalogues several programs that Israeli and some American Jews have developed to lend courage to Jewish-American youths to defend, fight back, and celebrate their Jewish identity in the face of radical Jew-haters as well as self-hating American Jews who serve as a poisonous brew that eventually destroy both the institutions of democracy and the freedoms of individual liberty.









						Natan Sharansky: A Hero for All Seasons
					

Sharansky reasons that until there is a fundamental internal transformation of Palestinian Arab society that embraces democracy, there can be no realistic negotiations. He roundly condemns Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as a dictator and a terrorist.




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

The cartoon character also known as Ismail Haniya was making public statements that included a lot of “we” references to the Islamic terrorists attacking Israel. It was all the usual pompous bluster that comes from the Islamic terrorists after Israel responds to gee-had attacks.

Interesting to note that Haniya’s “we” comments about waging the gee-had are made from outside the gee-had war zone.










						Hamas leader says group ‘ready’ for Israeli escalation
					

Ismail Haniya says Israel bears all responsibility for the consequences after ‘igniting fire in Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa’.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Hamas leader Ismail Haniya says the group told mediators it is “ready” if Israel increases its attacks on the besieged Gaza Strip.

“If they (Israel) want to escalate, the resistance is ready; and if they want to stop, the resistance is ready,” Haniya, who currently lives outside the strip, said in a televised address late on Tuesday.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, I don’t know. Maybe if we just give Islamic terrorists more money, they’ll behave like rational, thinking humans. 











						Hamas Terrorist Leader: Buy Cheap Knives, ‘Behead Jews’
					

Hamas political leader and designated terrorist Fathi Hammad called on Palestinians in Jerusalem to buy cheap knives in order to behead Jews.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Hamas political leader and designated terrorist Fathi Hammad called on Palestinians in Jerusalem on Friday to buy cheap knives in order to behead Jews. Meanwhile, Democrats continue to cozy up to the Gaza terror group while condemning Israel for responding to attacks against it and calling to end or condition aid to the Jewish state.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Justification for Conflict
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: It is really difficult for me at times to determine the Arab Palestinians know what "escalation" actually means.  _(As in : The deliberate or premeditated increase in the violence or geographic scope of a conflict.)_



Hollie said:


> Hamas leader Ismail Haniya says the group told mediators it is “ready” if Israel increases its attacks on the besieged Gaza Strip.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians _(especially HAMAS)_ take hostile action and then blames Israel for responding in kind.  WHO _(in a reasonable frame of mind)_ can blame Israel.  What country the Middle East, Persian Gulf, or Mediterranean Sea would not respond given the provocation exhibited by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)?

What really confuses me is why the HoAP believes that their action should be looked at favorably as justifiable.



Hollie said:


> “If they (Israel) want to escalate, the resistance is ready; and if they want to stop, the resistance is ready,” Haniya, who currently lives outside the strip, said in a televised address late on Tuesday.


*(COMMENT)*

This is called deliberate "taunting" to incite further violence.  Which is, by itself, a violation of the Human Rights Law (HRL) -* if it is still all about "rights."* _[Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_.

What can they be thinking?




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Justification for Conflict
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: It is really difficult for me at times to determine the Arab Palestinians know what "escalation" actually means.  _(As in : The deliberate or premeditated increase in the violence or geographic scope of a conflict.)_
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Ismail Haniya says the group told mediators it is “ready” if Israel increases its attacks on the besieged Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(especially HAMAS)_ take hostile action and then blames Israel for responding in kind.  WHO _(in a reasonable frame of mind)_ can blame Israel.  What country the Middle East, Persian Gulf, or Mediterranean Sea would not respond given the provocation exhibited by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP)?
> 
> What really confuses me is why the HoAP believes that their action should be looked at favorably as justifiable.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “If they (Israel) want to escalate, the resistance is ready; and if they want to stop, the resistance is ready,” Haniya, who currently lives outside the strip, said in a televised address late on Tuesday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is called deliberate "taunting" to incite further violence.  Which is, by itself, a violation of the Human Rights Law (HRL) -* if it is still all about "rights."* _[Article 20 -  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_.
> 
> What can they be thinking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

It appears the Pals are holding to a script they use routinely. They escalate to a point where the Israeli response is to remove those in leadership roles and the places where war is waged from. The Pal  propaganda will be to play the media with reports of Pal civilian casualties while ignoring that those civilians were effectively sacrificed as a product of waging war from populated areas.


----------



## Hollie

Looks Iike Israel is moving armor for possible ramping up if the islamic terrorist attacks don't subside.










						Israel Moves Armor Towards Gaza as Hundreds of Rockets Are Launched by Hamas -- Iron Dome on Display Again
					

Israel looks set to launch an extended campaign inside Gaza to go after Hamas and Islamic Jihad groups.




					redstate.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Struggle - Justification for Conflict
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are responsible for the near-continuous tactical improvements of the Security Barrier that separates the more dangerous aspects of neighboring Gaza from that of Israel.  The barrier was a consequence of a steady increase in lethal hostilities.   



​


P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The barriers were built as an upgradeable countermeasure _(some of which are Smart Fence compatible)_; a set of deterrents in response to incursions (by land and sea) from the HoAP.  

The Arab Palestinians are NOT fighting for their freedom.  They are a group of irregular combatants, mostly indigenous personnel organized to conduct asymmetric operations against the Combined Occupation Force (COF) _(Police • Intelligence • Security)_ and the nation of origin for the Occupation Force.   The HoAP target both civilian and traditional combatants (COF).  The HoAP are an evolving modern insurgency which are characterized as a quasi-states supported set of independent actors facing off against technologically superior COF.   These independent actors use terrorist attacks to strike directly at the vulnerable points of modern nations. 

In the case of the HoAP, they operate through resources acquired from all levels including  International donations, national revenue, proceeds from contraband, and support from covert external asymmetric activities.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Struggle - Justification for Conflict
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are responsible for the near-continuous tactical improvements of the Security Barrier that separates the more dangerous aspects of neighboring Gaza from that of Israel.  The barrier was a consequence of a steady increase in lethal hostilities.
> 
> 
> View attachment 488672
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The barriers were built as an upgradeable countermeasure _(some of which are Smart Fence compatible)_; a set of deterrents in response to incursions (by land and sea) from the HoAP.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT fighting for their freedom.  They are a group of irregular combatants, mostly indigenous personnel organized to conduct asymmetric operations against the Combined Occupation Force (COF) _(Police • Intelligence • Security)_ and the nation of origin for the Occupation Force.   The HoAP target both civilian and traditional combatants (COF).  The HoAP are an evolving modern insurgency which are characterized as a quasi-states supported set of independent actors facing off against technologically superior COF.   These independent actors use terrorist attacks to strike directly at the vulnerable points of modern nations.
> 
> In the case of the HoAP, they operate through resources acquired from all levels including  International donations, national revenue, proceeds from contraband, and support from covert external asymmetric activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.


Then why are 2/3 of them refugees?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Struggle - Justification for Conflict
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are responsible for the near-continuous tactical improvements of the Security Barrier that separates the more dangerous aspects of neighboring Gaza from that of Israel.  The barrier was a consequence of a steady increase in lethal hostilities.
> 
> 
> View attachment 488672
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The barriers were built as an upgradeable countermeasure _(some of which are Smart Fence compatible)_; a set of deterrents in response to incursions (by land and sea) from the HoAP.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are NOT fighting for their freedom.  They are a group of irregular combatants, mostly indigenous personnel organized to conduct asymmetric operations against the Combined Occupation Force (COF) _(Police • Intelligence • Security)_ and the nation of origin for the Occupation Force.   The HoAP target both civilian and traditional combatants (COF).  The HoAP are an evolving modern insurgency which are characterized as a quasi-states supported set of independent actors facing off against technologically superior COF.   These independent actors use terrorist attacks to strike directly at the vulnerable points of modern nations.
> 
> In the case of the HoAP, they operate through resources acquired from all levels including  International donations, national revenue, proceeds from contraband, and support from covert external asymmetric activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are 2/3 of them refugees?
Click to expand...

Why would you think they're "refugees"?


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are going to need a bunch of new replacement windows.










						Gaza marks deadly Eid al-Fitr amid Israeli bombardment
					

Israeli forces bomb several buildings in Gaza as authorities say 69 Palestinians killed, including 17 children.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Hamas fires rockets after Israel destroys third Gaza tower: Live​Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorists are going to need a bunch of new replacement windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza marks deadly Eid al-Fitr amid Israeli bombardment
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb several buildings in Gaza as authorities say 69 Palestinians killed, including 17 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas fires rockets after Israel destroys third Gaza tower: Live​Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.



Thug life ain't easy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorists are going to need a bunch of new replacement windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza marks deadly Eid al-Fitr amid Israeli bombardment
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb several buildings in Gaza as authorities say 69 Palestinians killed, including 17 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas fires rockets after Israel destroys third Gaza tower: Live​Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.





Hollie said:


> Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.


Police are civilian targets.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists are going to need a bunch of new replacement windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza marks deadly Eid al-Fitr amid Israeli bombardment
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb several buildings in Gaza as authorities say 69 Palestinians killed, including 17 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas fires rockets after Israel destroys third Gaza tower: Live​Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Police are civilian targets.
Click to expand...


What kind of targets are Hamas?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists are going to need a bunch of new replacement windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza marks deadly Eid al-Fitr amid Israeli bombardment
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb several buildings in Gaza as authorities say 69 Palestinians killed, including 17 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas fires rockets after Israel destroys third Gaza tower: Live​Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Police are civilian targets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What kind of targets are Hamas?
Click to expand...

It depends on his job.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists are going to need a bunch of new replacement windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza marks deadly Eid al-Fitr amid Israeli bombardment
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb several buildings in Gaza as authorities say 69 Palestinians killed, including 17 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas fires rockets after Israel destroys third Gaza tower: Live​Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces bomb police headquarters and security buildings in Gaza as authorities say 65 Palestinians killed, including 16 children, since the escalation began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Police are civilian targets.
Click to expand...

Silly armchair warrior.


----------



## Hollie

Pally mother of the year award nominee.












						Palestinian woman amid riots: “I’m prepared to die, [as are] my six children” | PMW Analysis
					

“We’ll sacrifice our lives for the sake of Jerusalem,” says Fatah spokesman




					palwatch.org
				




Palestinian woman amid riots: “I’m prepared to die, [as are] my six children”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 12, 2021


​


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Refugees
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  The short answer is: Two-Thirds of the population of Gaza are NOT true refugees.  The CERI (_*Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instruction*_) is NOT Law.  It does NOT define a "refugee." _[CERI __sets out guidance on the persons - categories of persons - who are eligible to register and receive United Nations (UN) Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) services - and - those who are eligible to receive services without being registered.]_  It is NOT international law, it is NOT a Treaty or Convention.  It is NOT a binding Document except within the UNRWA.  It is a UNRWA internal instruction.




			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.






			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Then why are 2/3 of them refugees?


*(COMMENT)*

The official definition of a "refugee" (_*Chapter I - General Provisions • Article I - Definition of the Term "Refugee" • CONVENTION Relating to the Status of Refugees*_) does NOT include descendants of Arab Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children.  It is important to remember the Refugees of the 1948 Arab - Israeli War (_War of Independence_) have to be more than 70 years old.  I've looked at many pictures of the HAMAS Human Wave on the Border.  Very, very few have an age consistent with a refugee of that era and war.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Refugees
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  The short answer is: Two-Thirds of the population of Gaza are NOT true refugees.  The CERI (_*Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instruction*_) is NOT Law.  It does NOT define a "refugee." _[CERI __sets out guidance on the persons - categories of persons - who are eligible to register and receive United Nations (UN) Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) services - and - those who are eligible to receive services without being registered.]_  It is NOT international law, it is NOT a Treaty or Convention.  It is NOT a binding Document except within the UNRWA.  It is a UNRWA internal instruction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are 2/3 of them refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The official definition of a "refugee" (_*Chapter I - General Provisions • Article I - Definition of the Term "Refugee" • CONVENTION Relating to the Status of Refugees*_) does NOT include descendants of Arab Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children.  It is important to remember the Refugees of the 1948 Arab - Israeli War (_War of Independence_) have to be more than 70 years old.  I've looked at many pictures of the HAMAS Human Wave on the Border.  Very, very few have an age consistent with a refugee of that era and war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

So, are you saying that no Jew can "return" to Israel because none of them are 2000 years old?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Refugees
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  The short answer is: Two-Thirds of the population of Gaza are NOT true refugees.  The CERI (_*Consolidate Eligibility Registration Instruction*_) is NOT Law.  It does NOT define a "refugee." _[CERI __sets out guidance on the persons - categories of persons - who are eligible to register and receive United Nations (UN) Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) services - and - those who are eligible to receive services without being registered.]_  It is NOT international law, it is NOT a Treaty or Convention.  It is NOT a binding Document except within the UNRWA.  It is a UNRWA internal instruction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza's "struggle for Freedom" is a conflict of their own making.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are 2/3 of them refugees?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The official definition of a "refugee" (_*Chapter I - General Provisions • Article I - Definition of the Term "Refugee" • CONVENTION Relating to the Status of Refugees*_) does NOT include descendants of Arab Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children.  It is important to remember the Refugees of the 1948 Arab - Israeli War (_War of Independence_) have to be more than 70 years old.  I've looked at many pictures of the HAMAS Human Wave on the Border.  Very, very few have an age consistent with a refugee of that era and war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, are you saying that no Jew can "return" to Israel because none of them are 2000 years old?
Click to expand...

What are you talking about ?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arab nations should definitely let Palestinians return.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


I’m afraid the Turkish caliphate is gone and it’s not coming back.


----------



## Hollie

If the “activists” want to protest against something, they can protest against the Islamic terrorist gee-had causing Israel to respond. 











						France asks police to ban pro-Palestinian protest in Paris
					

Activists had called a protest in northern Paris to demonstrate against Israel’s ongoing bombardment of the Gaza strip.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Activists had called the protest in the Barbes district of northern Paris to demonstrate against Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  "Right of Return" • vs • "Domestic Immigration Law"
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF*:  

◈   International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) Article 12:​*◈   *Question of Palestine A/RES/3236 (XXIX)  22 November 1974....  .......:   'vs'    Israeli Law of Return 5710​◈   Progress Report A/RES/194 (III)  11 December 1948....................  .......:​



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> So, are you saying that no Jew can "return" to Israel because none of them are 2000 years old?


*(COMMENT)*

The CCPR is actually a law upon which the alleged "right" the Arab Palestinians base their claim.   Neither A/RES/3236 and A/RES/194 are binding laws. 

One of the things I really find interesting about how the Arab Palestinians make a connection when there is no connection.  Another interesting thing to take into consideration is that:

​Nothing contained in the present *Charter shall authorize the United Nations* to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​





_Most Respectfully,_
R
.


----------



## Hollie

Now it’s getting real. I’m guessing that Israeli troops being staged near Gaza means that a sweep through the Islamic terrorist occupied territory is a real possibility. 












						Gaza death toll over 100 as Israel escalates aerial bombardment
					

Israel masses troops near Gaza as mediation efforts fail to halt intensified violence between Israel and Hamas.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Israel masses troops near Gaza as mediation efforts fail to halt intensified violence between Israel and Hamas.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *◈ *Question of Palestine A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974....


Thanks for the link.

_Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

   1.    _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

   (_a_)    The right to self-determination without external interference;

   (_b_)    The right to national independence and sovereignty;

   2.    _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈ *Question of Palestine A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974....
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1.    _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_)    The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_)    The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2.    _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
Click to expand...

The UN offered an opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hamas threatens rocket barrage at Tel Aviv if Israel strikes continue​




__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hamas threatens rocket barrage at Tel Aviv if Israel strikes continue​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i24NEWS
> 
> 
> 
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> www.i24news.tv


Oh, my. Islamic terrorists making threats.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas threatens rocket barrage at Tel Aviv if Israel strikes continue​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> i24NEWS
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> www.i24news.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. Islamic terrorists making threats.
Click to expand...

Looks like Israel wants more rockets.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hamas threatens rocket barrage at Tel Aviv if Israel strikes continue​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i24NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> www.i24news.tv



"If Israel stops kicking our ass, we'll stop firing rockets at civilians".

Well, look at that, terrorists promising to stop being terrorists......what could go wrong?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas threatens rocket barrage at Tel Aviv if Israel strikes continue​
> 
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> 
> 
> __
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> i24NEWS
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> www.i24news.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Oh, my. Islamic terrorists making threats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like Israel wants more rockets.
Click to expand...

Light’em up tough guy.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas threatens rocket barrage at Tel Aviv if Israel strikes continue​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i24NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.i24news.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, my. Islamic terrorists making threats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like Israel wants more rockets.
Click to expand...

looks like your Islamic terrorist heroes want more beat down. 












						Israeli Ground Troops Attack Targets In Gaza
					

Israeli Defense Forces soldiers crossed the nation's western border with Gaza early Friday morning local time.




					dailycaller.com
				





Israeli Ground Troops Attack Targets In Gaza​


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Incitement to Violence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I seem to be a bit confused.

Didn't this star in earnest when President Mahmoud Abbas calling to “defend Jerusalem with our lives” back in April.
“Fatah seeks to incite violence in Jerusalem,” by Itamar Marcus, _*Palestinian Media Watch*_, April 25, 2021

Isn't the current tension fueled by the HAMAS ULTIMATUM that threatened military action if all Israeli police didn't leave the al-Aqsa Mosque?  
And was there not a barrage of over 100 rockets into Israel?
Is that not in direct opposition to the call for peace?  

If the United State was on the receiving end of a rocket barrage from an external source, what would America do?  
If Austin Texas was the target of 100 rockets from Cuba or Mexico, what would the American response be?  

The International Community needs to put this hostile action - on the part of the Arab Palestinians - into context.  Under International Humanitarian Law (IHL) (*Hague Regulation 1907*) Israel is required to take all the measures to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.

Israel has the inherent right of self-defense against armed attack as a Member of the United Nations (*Chapter VII, UN Charter)*.  The UN Security Council already knows of the attack.  And in the absence of decisive action on the part of the Security Council, Israel has the right to take such retaliatory action as may be necessary to neutralize the Hostile Arab Palestinian capability to continue the attack into the future.  This defensive response on the part of Israel must be MINIMIZED in such duration and intensity only to the degree required to establish "a direct overall military advantage anticipated" at the conclusion of that measure of defensive response → required to forcefully* induce the cessation of hostilities*.  This is in keeping with the spirit and intent of the Rule pertaining to a "proportionality in the Attack" (Rule 14 IHL).


			
				Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions said:
			
		

> The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.
> *SOURCE:  *_*Article 51*_ *-- Protection of the civilian population*



While the Current Rocket Attacks originating from the Hostile Arab Palestinians are a prohibited form of Indiscriminate attacks under the IHL Additional Protocol, the response by the Security Council has been totally incapable to address them.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Didn't this star in earnest when President Mahmoud Abbas calling to “defend Jerusalem with our lives”


Defend Jerusalem from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Isn't the current tension fueled by the HAMAS ULTIMATUM that threatened military action if all Israeli police didn't leave the al-Aqsa Mosque?


Why were Israeli police at al-Aqsa Mosque?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't this star in earnest when President Mahmoud Abbas calling to “defend Jerusalem with our lives”
> 
> 
> 
> Defend Jerusalem from what?
Click to expand...

What do you expect to get when you ask these incredibly dumb questions every day ???


----------



## Hollie

Quite a stark contrast. Israel will provide civilians an opportunity to leave those places used by Islamic terrorists to wage war before destroying them. Conversely, the Islamic terrorists wage war on civilians by the indiscriminate assault on cities. 











						PMW Exclusive: PA TV admits Israel warned civilians to leave building before attack | PMW Analysis
					

“How much, how much time do you need?… At least two or three hours? No one should come in? In other words, [I should] go to the tower, go to the tower and not let anyone come in?”




					www.palwatch.org
				





PMW Exclusive: PA TV admits Israel warned civilians to leave building before attack​Itamar Marcus  | May 14, 2021
In this exclusive PMW video, an official Palestinian Authority source confirms the Israeli policy of warning Palestinian civilians to evacuate buildings that house terrorists and terror infrastructures in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, before they are destroyed. This has been a long held Israeli practice, even if it enables the terrorists to escape. Now an official Palestinian Authority source also confirms this.
A PA TV reporter recounts what he witnessed in Gaza:


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> Quite a stark contrast. Israel will provide civilians an opportunity to leave those places used by Islamic terrorists to wage war before destroying them. Conversely, the Islamic terrorists wage war on civilians by the indiscriminate assault on cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW Exclusive: PA TV admits Israel warned civilians to leave building before attack | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “How much, how much time do you need?… At least two or three hours? No one should come in? In other words, [I should] go to the tower, go to the tower and not let anyone come in?”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW Exclusive: PA TV admits Israel warned civilians to leave building before attack​Itamar Marcus  | May 14, 2021
> In this exclusive PMW video, an official Palestinian Authority source confirms the Israeli policy of warning Palestinian civilians to evacuate buildings that house terrorists and terror infrastructures in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, before they are destroyed. This has been a long held Israeli practice, even if it enables the terrorists to escape. Now an official Palestinian Authority source also confirms this.
> A PA TV reporter recounts what he witnessed in Gaza:


Could you imagine if Hamas had the weapons that Israel has ?


----------



## Hollie

The IDF used a very effective diversionary tactic to isolate Islamic terrorists in tunnels and then initiated bombing runs. 










						The night of 1,000 bombs: Israel mounts deadly air attack against Gaza tunnels after decoy ground operation
					

Shortly after midnight, the IDF said ground forces were 'attacking in Gaza' but the announcement was a ploy to send Hamas fighters into the tunnels where they…




					www.google.com
				




The night of 1,000 bombs: Israel mounts deadly air attack against Gaza tunnels after decoy ground operation​Shortly after midnight, the IDF said ground forces were 'attacking in Gaza' but the announcement was a ploy to send Hamas fighters into the tunnels where they were bombed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Times of Israel says that according to Al Jazeera, they were fired from near the Rashidiya Palestinian refugee camp in Tyre. 

That does not appear to be true. That camp is some 22 km from the Israeli border and it seems unlikely that anyone in that tiny camp can build a rocket with that range.

Naharnet says that the rocket was fired from an area north of Naqoura, which is only a few kilimeters from Israel and much more likely. 

The smaller rockets do seem to have been built in the Rashidiya camp, though. The Lebanese army found three rockets near that camp. They were small, similar to the original Qassam rockets from Hamas.





The Lebanese people are not likely to warm their already chilly feelings towards Palestinians if the "refugees" try to start a war with Israel from their territory. 

And why do the Palestinians in camps in Lebanon need to build rockets, anyway? The only reason would be to try to start a war that Hezbollah would not be able to avoid joining; unless they think they need them for intra-faction fighting. 

(full article online)









						Palestinians in Lebanon building rockets
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(vide all memes online)









						Some recent memes
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Three rockets were launched from Syria towards Israel on Friday evening amid a number of solidarity riots with the Palestinians amid ongoing escalations between Israel and Hamas, as well as the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

One of the rockets failed to launch, falling on the Syrian side of the border. The other two rockets fell in an open space, leading to only open air sirens to be sounded. No injuries were recorded.

(full article online)









						Hezbollah member killed after trying to cross into Israel from Lebanon
					

Three rockets were fired from Syria as anger continues to boil in the Arab world




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

The Pally’s are going to need UNRWA to launch a major welfare-begging campaign to pay for the damages they brought on themselves. 













						Israeli air raid flattens Gaza building housing Al Jazeera
					

Protests in occupied West Bank and around world as number of people killed by Israeli bombardment on Gaza reaches 145.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Israeli air raid flattens Gaza building housing Al Jazeera: Live​Protests in occupied West Bank and around world as number of people killed by Israeli bombardment on Gaza reaches 140.


----------



## Hollie

Curious that the IDF announces in advance their intended targets.

I suppose the downside is that such announcements provide an opportunity for the Islamic terrorists to stage civilians in close proximity.


----------



## Hollie

The facing page of Fox News shows the effects of an air strike.






						Fox News
					

America is Watching.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## Hollie

It really is a simple concept: throwing infidel welfare dollars at islsmic terrorists serves only to incentivize more acts of Islamic terrorism. 










						By Renewing Palestinian Aid, America Is Funding Terrorism
					

We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.




					nationalinterest.org
				




We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.


----------



## Hollie

President Trump knew that funding Islamic terrorism in the form of money thrown at the Islamic terrorist syndicates in the West Bank and UNRWA was not in our interest. 











						Why Biden Should Not Give Aid to the Palestinian Authority
					

The Biden administration needs to stop rewarding Palestinian intransigence and support for terror.




					nationalinterest.org
				




The dire warnings of political and economic Armageddon in Palestinian-controlled territories did not come to pass when the Trump administration ended U.S. support for both entities. In the PA’s case, the American calculous was simple: end the policy of paying terrorists or the United States will cease providing aid. The PA chose the latter. For UNRWA, things were a bit more complicated since the UN already has a refugee agency, deeming UNRWA completely unnecessary.


----------



## Mindful

The CEO of the Associated Press announces that they are “shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza”. 

He’s probably shocked and horrified that they’ve been found out, sharing premises with Hamas. I’m not shocked at all. The UN has been found to share keys with Hamas in the past and we know what journalists are like.

Note the warning the IDF gave. Note the time given to evacuate the building. Note the precision strike, at the base of the building, to bring it down. That’s not indiscriminate.


Posted in ATW


----------



## Hollie

While certainly not unknown, the Shia Iranians are having a good laugh at promoting the war now raging among their most hated enemies; the Sunni islamists and the Jewish people. 













						Palestinian terrorists say their rockets come from Iran
					

The terrorist group Palestine Islamic Jihad says that Iran provided the rockets that have been striking civilian targets by the scores in Israel, including schools, homes and vehicles.




					www.washingtontimes.com
				




The terrorist group Palestine Islamic Jihad says that Iran provided the rockets that have been striking civilian targets by the scores in Israel, including schools, homes and vehicles.

Terrorist group official Ramez Al-Halabi says the “weapons we use to pound Tel Aviv, our weapons, our money, and our food are provided by Iran,” according to the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).


----------



## Hollie

Some interesting observations in the linked article, much of it making distinctions between a modern, first-world society vs. two, competing tribal cultures aligned with a brutish, unreformed politico-religious ideology that has remained static since the death of the Arab warlord who invented it.










						HAMMER: Moral Clarity Versus Moral Depravity in Israel and Gaza
					

In this perverse cosplay, Israel (whose Jewish population is plurality-Mizrahi, meaning of Middle Eastern, non-European descent) is the "white" Derek Chauvin; Hamas is the "brown" George Floyd.




					thelibertyloft.com
				




Israel, a first-world nation-state and global technological hub with ascendant geopolitical and diplomatic clout, is in the right to exercise its sovereign right to defend itself from the predations of a thuggish Palestinian Authority and a genocidal Muslim Brotherhood offshoot; Ramallah’s deceitful inciters of Temple Mount jihad and nationwide anti-Jewish pogroms, along with Hamas’ murderous petty tyrants, are in the wrong. To anyone with a functioning moral compass, this stark dichotomy ought to be intuitive and obvious.


----------



## Hollie

It is, I suppose, the sign of a changing Middle East when an Arab nation plays the ''cut the crap'' card with Hamas. 







__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				




The UAE has reportedly threatened Hamas it will cease all infrastructure and economic investments in the Gaza Strip if it fails to come to a ceasefire agreement with Jerusalem in the near future. 

“We are still ready and willing to promote civil projects in cooperation with the Palestinian Authority and under UN management [in Gaza], but our necessary condition is calm,” an unnamed UAE official told the Israeli financial daily_ Globes_ over the weekend.


----------



## Hollie

The effectiveness of the Israeli missile defense system. 










						The Right Scoop
					






					therightscoop.com


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian Mullocrats laugh at you as you're cut down. 
​​​Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official: Rockets We Use to Pound Tel Aviv, Our Weapons Provided by Iran​


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists could stop the gee-had and this would end. 







__





						Israeli airstrikes kill 42 in Gaza as Biden, regional partners push for cease-fire
					





					www.msn.com
				




In response to Israeli airstrikes on assets and homes belonging to several high-ranking Hamas officials, Hamas fired a barrage of rockets toward Tel Aviv and southern Israel throughout the night and into Sunday.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose if rockets fired from Gaza fall short and kill Gazans, thats just the cost of doing _business_ gee-had. 












						Israel Faces Highest-Ever Rate of Rocket Attacks: Army
					

Israeli airstrikes on Gaza City flattened three buildings and killed at least 26 people Sunday, medics said, making it the deadliest single attack since heavy fighting broke out between Israel and the territory's militant Hamas rulers nearly a week ago.The Gaza Health...




					www.newsmax.com
				




In what Hamas called a reprisal for Israel's destruction of the al-Jala building, Hamas fired 120 rockets overnight, the Israeli military said, with many intercepted and around a dozen falling short and landing in Gaza.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As the funeral was being held in the Israeli town of Kiryat Gat today for five year old Ido Avigal, whose mother and sister were wounded in the rocket strike from Gaza, Palestinian war criminals *fired* projectiles at the town forcing the mourners to take cover. According to the Kan public broadcaster, the timing of the rocket fire was clearly aimed at disrupting the funeral since Kiryat Gat has not been a regular target during the current fighting.

This was a war crime. All two thousand or so missiles that the Arabs have been raining down at Israel from Gaza over the last week are war crimes because they are intended to murder civilians. Hamas and their fellow jihadi attackers are guilty furthermore of a second set of war crimes in using their own civilians as hostages and human shields by deliberately siting their missile launchers, ammunition dumps and other infrastructure of war in and around apartment blocks, hospitals and schools.

Yet in most of the media coverage in Britain and America, there is virtually no mention of these Palestinian war crimes. Instead, Israel is being presented as the wanton slayer of Palestinian children.

The Hamas-run health ministry today put the Gaza death toll at 119, of whom  27 were minors.

Israel has consistently said that about one third of the now almost 2,000 Hamas rockets aimed at Israeli civilians in recent days have fallen short and landed in Gaza, some of them killing Palestinians.

Now Hamas itself has admitted that its own rockets have been killing its own people. The Gaza NGO “Defence for Children International - Palestine” *says* that eight Palestinians, including two children, died in a Hamas rocket attack. And on Tuesday alone, according to Palestinian NGOs, Hamas rockets killed 16 Gazans including eight children.

Yet British and US media have been misleading the public into believing that the entire Gaza death toll is the result of Israeli strikes. Not only is this media falsehood inflaming general anti-Israel sentiment, but it is also exacerbating the hysterical, paranoid and even murderous hatred of Israel among Muslims. 

(full article online)









						The pathology of evil
					

Once again, the media's gleeful alacrity to demonise Israel is frightening




					melaniephillips.substack.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Official PA TV host:* “Because the hearts and eyes yearn for Jerusalem, because Jerusalem is the capital of the independent Palestinian state… and because the hearts of not just the Palestinians alone but of all the Muslims and Arabs have connected to it: Therefore, *the blood spilled for its sake is insignificant. Our lives are for your sake, O Jerusalem. Our lives, all we have, are for your sake, O Al-Aqsa Mosque*.”

[Official PA TV, May 11, 2021

(full article online)









						The blood spilled for [your] sake is insignificant. Our lives are for your sake, O Jerusalem” – PA TV host promotes the violent riots | PMW Analysis
					

“They’ve gone too far! Leave us alone! Get off our chests! Get off our chests! Get off our chests! We’ll continue to be a thorn in your sides”




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Iran is still not satisfied with the number of dead Sunni in Gaza so as long as their supply of rockets lasts, the gee-had will continue.













						Gaza death toll nears 200 amid surge of Israeli raids
					

Israeli air raids on Gaza City flatten three buildings and kill at least 42 people on Sunday.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday said that an end to seven days of hostilities with Gaza fighters was not imminent, despite diplomatic moves to restore calm.


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


You fail at this every time with these silly cut and paste youtube videos?

What sovereign Pally land is occupied?

Link?


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## Hollie

A Pally islamic terrorist will not be coming down for breakfast.... ever again.













						Israel-Gaza conflict: Islamic Jihad leader killed and militant tunnels destroyed in airstrikes, Israeli military says
					

Gaza residents describe the barrage as the heaviest since the conflict escalated a week ago, with hundreds killed and injured.




					news.sky.com
				




According to the Israeli Defense Forces, the latest attacks killed a local Gaza leader of the Islamic Jihad militant group, blamed for some of the thousands of rocket attacks launched at Israel.


----------



## Hollie

For all the benefits / advantages that come to Arabs-Moslems living in Israel, the politico-religious ideology of islamism represents a continuing threat to the Jewish State.










						Israeli Arabs in Nazareth: “We are your youth, Palestine… We don’t want to see a Zionist, with spirit and blood we’ll redeem Al-Aqsa” | PMW Analysis
					

While Hamas was launching missiles targeting Israeli civilians, killing and injuring Israelis in Israeli cities, young Israeli Arabs - including children - demonstrated against Israel in Nazareth




					www.palwatch.org
				




Israeli Arabs in Nazareth: “We are your youth, Palestine… We don’t want to see a Zionist, with spirit and blood we’ll redeem Al-Aqsa”​Itamar Marcus  | May 18, 2021



While Hamas was launching missiles targeting Israeli civilians, killing and injuring Israelis in Israeli cities, young Israeli Arabs - including children - demonstrated against Israel in Nazareth. Footage from the demonstration broadcast live on official PA TV shows the Israeli Arabs calling for more violence, shouting: “Rise up intifada…We are your youth, Palestine… [We say] openly, openly, openly: We don’t want to see a Zionist, with spirit and blood we’ll redeem Al-Aqsa”:


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was funny. Pally's in the Islamic terrorist Emirate of Gaza'istan are on strike. I suppose they're a bit miffed that Israel is retaliating against the Pally acts of war. 

Gee whiz. An Islamic terrorist welfare fraud syndicate feels their tender sensibilities are offended. 

What to do... what to do. 










						In Pictures: In show of unity, Palestinians go on strike
					

People across occupied West Bank, Gaza and Israel take part in collective action against occupation and Gaza bombing.




					www.google.com
				




Shops were shuttered across cities in Gaza, the occupied West Bank and in villages and towns inside Israel as Palestinians observed a general strike to protest against occupation and Israel’s ongoing bombardment of the blockaded enclave.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> I thought this was funny. Pally's in the Islamic terrorist Emirate of Gaza'istan are on strike. I suppose they're a bit miffed that Israel is retaliating against the Pally acts of war.
> 
> Gee whiz. An Islamic terrorist welfare fraud syndicate feels their tender sensibilities are offended.
> 
> What to do... what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Pictures: In show of unity, Palestinians go on strike
> 
> 
> People across occupied West Bank, Gaza and Israel take part in collective action against occupation and Gaza bombing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shops were shuttered across cities in Gaza, the occupied West Bank and in villages and towns inside Israel as Palestinians observed a general strike to protest against occupation and Israel’s ongoing bombardment of the blockaded enclave.



The terrorists committing the war crimes by firing rockets into Israel should go on strike.


----------



## Hollie

A lot of building remodeling taking place in the Islamic terrorist enclave of mini-Tehran otherwise called Gaza.

The Shia Iranian Mullocrats are having quite a laugh at their reviled enemy, the Sunni. 










						Palestinians go on strike as Israel-Hamas fighting rages
					

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Palestinians across Israel and the occupied territories went on strike in a rare collective protest Tuesday as Israeli missiles toppled a building in Gaza and militants in the Hamas-ruled territory fired dozens of rockets that killed two people.




					apnews.com
				




GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — A rocket launched from Gaza killed two Thai workers in southern Israel on Tuesday, police said, hours after Israeli airstrikes toppled a six-story building in the Palestinian territory that housed bookstores and educational centers. With the war showing no sign of abating, Palestinians in the region staged a general strike in a rare collective action against Israel’s policies.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Palestinians in the region staged a general strike in a rare collective action against Israel’s policies.



In a related story, Coke workers decided to go on strike, to take action against Pepsi.


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians in the region staged a general strike in a rare collective action against Israel’s policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a related story, Coke workers decided to go on strike, to take action against Pepsi.
Click to expand...

When Pally welfare recipients go on strike, the globe trembles.


----------



## Hollie

Waging the ''I'm not about to get near where the fighting is'' gee-had. 

Odd that Haniyeh, Yahya Sinwar and so many of the islamic terrorist franchise billionaires are fighting the gee-had from the safety of great distances. 
​​Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh in Doha, Qatar: Our Brothers within the Borders of 1948 Are Waging Intifada, Trampling the Concept of Coexistence underfoot; Safed Is Ours!​


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had isn't all date palms and camel's milk. 

While Ismail Haniyeh has been provoking his minions in Gaza'istan to wage the gee-had, he has decided to dock his boatloads of cash in Qatar and settle in to a rather luxurious existence. 

No doubt, he's enjoying tap water and flush toilets. 







			Gaza War Deepens a Long-Running Humanitarian Crisis
		


GAZA CITY — The nine-day battle between Hamas militants and the Israeli military has damaged 17 hospitals and clinics in Gaza, wrecked its only coronavirus test laboratory, sent fetid wastewater into its streets and broke water pipes serving at least 800,000 people, setting off a humanitarian crisis that is touching nearly every civilian in the crowded enclave of about two million people.


----------



## Hollie

Creepiness has reached new levels courtesy of the Death Cultists in Fatah. The appeals to "martydom" are falling only on the Shia Iranian errand boys in PIJ and Hamas, so many of whom have appeased the Mullocrats in Tehran.










						Editorial in official PA daily confirms PMW analysis that Abbas is pushing for more violence | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “Allahu Akbar (i.e., “Allah is greatest”), Allahu Akbar. Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Editorial in official PA daily confirms PMW analysis that Abbas is pushing for more violence​Itamar Marcus  | May 19, 2021

*Fatah: “Our confrontation on the ground will escalate”*​
*“Fatah said that our people’s struggle to restore its rights will not end… it will continue to fight until the last living soul”*​
*“Fatah: Continue the resolve and confrontations… on all the roads and everywhere this is possible”*​
*Fatah: “Come out in processions of rage in all the cities”*​
*Fatah: “The revolution and struggle will continue until liberation”*​
*Fatah: “Allahu Akbar (i.e., “Allah is greatest”), Allahu Akbar. Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem”*​
*Fatah: “Happy are you, O mother of the Martyr; if only my mother was in your place”*​
*“Mahmoud Abbas: “We salute its residents who are carrying out Ribat (i.e., religious conflict) there. We salute the heroic young people of Palestine who are the pride of the homeland and the people”*​


----------



## Hollie

When martyrdom comes to your door.










						Palestinians Bombard Own People; 20% of Hamas Rockets Land in Gaza
					

Palestinian terrorists are bombarding their own people, as 700 of the rockets fired by terrorists -- some 20% of the total -- land in Gaza.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Palestinian terrorists are bombarding their own people, as 700 of the rockets fired from Gaza by Hamas and other terror groups — some 20% of the total — land in Gaza, often killing innocent Palestinian civilians whose deaths are wrongly blamed on Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What the West continue to not see ]






*“All Palestine is ours and it will be liberated from the thieves… You are temporary, and we remain” - 7-year-old girl*​
*“I will not be calm until I see that the Zionist has left” – song on Fatah Facebook and Awdah TV*​

(full article online)









						Kids on official PA TV: “A young self-sacrificing fighter” will get rid of “the Zionists” “Palestine is ours… it will be liberated from the thieves” | PMW Analysis
					

“All Palestine is ours and it will be liberated from the thieves… You are temporary, and we remain” - 7-year-old girl




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Not the first time, won't be the last]

Humanitarian aid that was on its way into the Gaza Strip from Israel on Wednesday was once again shelled by Hamas terrorists.

The IDF’s The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) stated that during the entry of a shipment of civilian aid into the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom crossing, donated by Jordan, the terrorist organizations in the Strip fired three mortar shells at the crossing area.

(full article online)









						Aid on Way to Gaza Once Again Shelled by Hamas
					

The shipment included a number of trucks with medical equipment destined for the Jordanian hospital in the Gaza Strip.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Video may have been deleted by YouTube ]

In one such phone call, a Gazan civilian informed the IDF that the Palestinians “want to die” and “if children need to die, they’ll die.” This is in order to “reveal Israel’s cruelty.”

(full article online)

https://unitedwithisrael.org/shocking-idf-call-to-gaza-resident-reveals-who-truly-cares-about-human-life/?utm_source=newsletters_unitedwithisrael_org&utm_medium=email&utm_content=IDF+Takes+Out+Top+Hamas+Commander%3B+Palestinian+Reveals+to+IDF+Real+Strategy+About+Using+Kids%3B+Iran+Brags+About+%27Owning+Palestinians%27%3B+China+Says+‘Jews+Run+the+World%27&utm_campaign=20210519_m163285304_IDF+Takes+Out+Top+Hamas+Commander%3B+Palestinian+Reveals+to+IDF+Real+Strategy+About+Using+Kids%3B+Iran+Brags+About+%27Owning+Palestinians%27%3B+China+Says+‘Jews+Run+the+World%27&utm_term=SHOCKING_3A+Palestinian+Reveals+to+IDF+Real+Strategy+About+Using+Kids


----------



## Hollie

My nominee for Pally father of the year award. 










						Watch: Gazan Man Openly Invites IDF to Kill His Children After IDF Warns Him of Oncoming Attack
					

Israel is in a fight against monsters in Gaza.




					redstate.com


----------



## Hollie

The Iranians are literally giddy with the withering proxy war raging in Gaza.









						Iran Guards hail rocket barrages of 'new Palestine' - France 24
					

Iran Guards hail rocket barrages of 'new Palestine'




					www.france24.com
				





Iran's Revolutionary Guards commander on Wednesday hailed the Palestinian militants who have peppered Israel with rocket fire in the Gaza Strip's latest conflict.

"Today we are witnessing the birth of a new Palestine... fighting with missiles," Major General Hossein Salami said at a pro-Palestinian rally in central Tehran's Imam Hossein Square.


In not so sure about this “new Pal’istan” hailed by Hossein Salami. This doesn’t look so new.


----------



## Hollie

Baghdad Bob has been hired to replace the non-mirror fogging Islamic terrorists in Gaza. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




PA daily: Gaza is “shaking the foundations of Tel Aviv, Herzliya, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Rishon LeZion, Be’er Sheva, the Negev, the Gaza Envelope”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 20, 2021

*PA daily: Israel is committing a “holocaust”*​
*“The scent of the Martyrs’ blood on the land is purer than the perfumes of the entire world”*​
*“Palestine - the mother of self-sacrifice that only gives birth to heroes”*​
*“The Zionists are running to [bomb] shelters”*​
Hamas' launching rockets against Israel the last 10 days was the terror organization’s attempt to establish itself as the protector of Jerusalem and “Palestine,” as opposed to the Palestinian Authority and Fatah. However, that didn’t keep the official PA daily from praising the rockets, cheering the fact that they sent Israelis “running to [bomb] shelters.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib Delivers Powerful Speech About Palestine​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib Delivers Powerful Speech About Palestine​


That's a shame.

Live by the gee-had, take a welfare pay cut when a superior force puts the _had_ in 
gee-had.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBTOPIC*: Powerful Speech (Maybe)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF*:  This is a one-way speech.  The Poor and Downtrodden Arab Palestinians...


P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib Delivers Powerful Speech About Palestine​


*(COMMENT)*

It is a prep-rally type → childish speech.

The US is not actually responsible for the failures the Arab Palestinians have made over the last century...  The Member of Congress wants to "Pin the Tail on the Donkey."  Representative Tiaib is playing the part of the "Blinded Pinner."  And she is probably right.  But she cannot CALL OUT the US just because the Arab Palestinians cause a confrontation and then try to use it for political propaganda purposes suggesting that the Israelis are at fault for taking superior defensive action.

REMEMBER:  The Arab Palestinians instigated the confrontation and the Arab Palestinians DID NOT follow the Customary And International Humanitarian Law:










_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib Delivers Powerful Speech About Palestine​



Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> *SUBTOPIC*: Powerful Speech (Maybe)
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  This is a one-way speech.  The Poor and Downtrodden Arab Palestinians...
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib Delivers Powerful Speech About Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a prep-rally type → childish speech.
> 
> The US is not actually responsible for the failures the Arab Palestinians have made over the last century...  The Member of Congress wants to "Pin the Tail on the Donkey."  Representative Tiaib is playing the part of the "Blinded Pinner."  And she is probably right.  But she cannot CALL OUT the US just because the Arab Palestinians cause a confrontation and then try to use it for political propaganda purposes suggesting that the Israelis are at fault for taking superior defensive action.
> 
> REMEMBER:  The Arab Palestinians instigated the confrontation and the Arab Palestinians DID NOT follow the Customary And International Humanitarian Law:
> 
> View attachment 491730
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get this shit?

Seriously.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Donald Courter Interviews CoFounder of Palestine International Solidarity Organization Huwaida Arraf​


----------



## Hollie

Looks like old sleepy Joe is going to lend an assist to the islamic terrorists and hose them down with infidel welfare dollars. 

More rewards for acts of islamic terrorism. 





			U.S. Aid to Rebuild Gaza Hinges on Hamas's Rocket Arsenal
		


WASHINGTON — With a cease-fire between Israel and Palestinian militants underway, the Biden administration is now turning to how it can help rebuild the besieged Gaza Strip — and in turn bring pressure, through promises of financial support, on Hamas not to resume fighting.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, Pallys. If only there were no Jews, the mini-Islamic terrorist caliphates in Gaza and the West Bank would be the realization of those sought after Islamic paradises.
​​​Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mraweh Nassar: 'Humanity Will Not Thrive Until The Jewish Nation Is Annihilated... I Mean The Jews Living In Palestine'​


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Nothing new about this.  What have Muslims not borrowed from Christianity or the Nazis?]

As part of the Palestinian Authority’s relentless demonizing of Israel and Jews, it often invokes Nazi era terminology to try to conjure a parallel between the actions of the Nazi’s and the actions of Israel or Jews.

Rewriting the story of the wide scale riots of Israeli Arabs that started on May 10 in the Israeli city of Lod, regular columnist Bassem Bahoum commented:



> “Before the eyes of the world Israel has repeated Kristallnacht, the night on which members of the Nazi party in Germany burned and destroyed the Jews’ stores and property, and this was when it let fascist extremist groups destroy the property of Palestinians in Lod, Jaffa, Haifa, and Acre.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 17, 2021]


_*Kristallnacht*_, or the Night of Broken Glass, was a pogrom against Jews carried out by Nazi forces and civilians throughout Germany on the night of November 9-10, 1938. Jewish homes, hospitals and schools were ransacked and demolished. In the curse of the riots, 267 synagogues were destroyed and over 7,000 Jewish businesses were damaged or destroyed.

The PA comparison between *Kristallnacht* and the alleged actions of Israel and Jews, implies that hundreds of mosques or shops belonging to Israeli Arabs were destroyed, ransacked and burned to the ground.

The real statistics, from the start of the Israeli Arab riots on May 10 through May 16, show the opposite. While there were some acts of violence carried out by Israeli-Jews, all of which was condemned by the Israeli government and police, the reality was wide scale violence carried out by Arab Israelis, focused on attacking their Jewish neighbors and their property. Here are some of the statistics:



> *10* Synagogues were wholly or partly burnt. 0 mosques that were burnt;​
> While Arab rioters *used 28 mosques to stockpile rocks* and Molotov cocktails, no such similar use was made of Synagogues.​
> While the Arab *rioters used 22 mosques to direct the violence*and the rioters, no such similar use was made of Synagogues.​
> Arab rioters *set fire to 112 Jewish homes* compared to 1 Arab home that was set ablaze by an Israeli Arab who mistook the target for a Jewish house.​
> *386 *Jewish homes were plundered. No Arab homes were plundered.​
> *673* Jewish homes were damaged, compare to 13 Arab homes that were damaged.​
> *849 cars* belonging to Jews were set ablaze compared to 13 Arab owned cars.​
> In *5,018* events *Jews were attacked by Arab rioters*throwing stones compared to *41*events in which *Arabs were attacked *with stones.​
> [Walla, Independent Israeli news site, May 16,2021]



(full article online)









						PA hijacks Nazi terminology to demonize Israel and Jews | PMW Analysis
					

Israeli “detention camps have become most similar to the Nazi crematoriums”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas' Felesteen reports:




> The Undersecretary of the Ministry of Local Government, Eng. Ahmed Abu Ras, called for the necessity of holding a major and central conference for the reconstruction of Gaza on its land.
> 
> In press statements, he stressed Gaza's readiness to receive supporters and donors, in order to directly see the extent of the damage caused by the occupation during its aggression on the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Engineer Abu Ras said, "We want the donors and supporters to declare their solidarity and willingness to support the reconstruction of Gaza from its land, so that they would witness the extent of the destruction caused by the aggression."




(full article online)









						Hamas is ready for the world to reward its aggression with a "reconstruction conference"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. Trauma.

I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had. 









						Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
					

UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.




					www.google.com
				




World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.


----------



## Hollie

Party like they're trading dead Pallys for welfare checks due any day now.









						In Pictures: Celebrations across Gaza after 11 days of bombing
					

Thousands of Palestinians take to the streets after ceasefire between Israel and Hamas takes effect.




					www.google.com
				



​






Thousands took to the streets of Gaza as the ceasefire took hold at 2am. [Said Khatib/AFP]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.


A lot of war crimes here.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
Click to expand...

Yes. The "country of Pal'istan", which, as you know was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, initiated a war and targeted Israeli civilians.

It's been estimated that 20% of the Iranian rockets launched by  Hamas malfunctioned and landed in Gaza killing (Sunni) Pallys.

The (Shia) Iranian Mullocrats are doing islamo-high fives all around.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> A lot of war crimes here.



That's how the Palestinians roll


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_

*BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:



			
				UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
			
		

> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”



Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.

“Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
delivered with a Winchester rifle.
..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
​
*WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.

The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
Click to expand...


What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.

At least you're consistent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.
> 
> At least you're consistent.
Click to expand...










						Israel's 'Dahiya Doctrine,' a plan for mass civilian deaths in Gaza
					

According to established Israeli military policy every Gazan is a target — and that’s not an accident.




					www.trtworld.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.
> 
> At least you're consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's 'Dahiya Doctrine,' a plan for mass civilian deaths in Gaza
> 
> 
> According to established Israeli military policy every Gazan is a target — and that’s not an accident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
Click to expand...

Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.
> 
> At least you're consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's 'Dahiya Doctrine,' a plan for mass civilian deaths in Gaza
> 
> 
> According to established Israeli military policy every Gazan is a target — and that’s not an accident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
Click to expand...


Exactly!! 
They want to kill civilians, that's why they warn civilians to evacuate before they hit a target.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorists see this as a victory. A major welfare begging campaign by UNRWA is sure to follow. It's always someone else's responsibility to clean up the disasters Pally retrogrades create for themselves. 






			https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-05-21/palestinians-claim-victory-as-gaza-truce-faces-early-test
		


Palestinians See Victory in Gaza Truce as Israel Warns Hamas​Thousands of Palestinians rallied after a cease-fire took effect in the latest Gaza war.

Palestinians See Victory in Gaza Truce as Israel Warns Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.
> 
> At least you're consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's 'Dahiya Doctrine,' a plan for mass civilian deaths in Gaza
> 
> 
> According to established Israeli military policy every Gazan is a target — and that’s not an accident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly!!
> They want to kill civilians, that's why they warn civilians to evacuate before they hit a target.
Click to expand...

Israel - Leave your house we are going to destroy it.

Palestinians - Why thank you. You are so kind.


----------



## P F Tinmore

CNN Interviews Jadaliyya Co-Editor Noura Erakat (18 May 2021)​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.
> 
> At least you're consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's 'Dahiya Doctrine,' a plan for mass civilian deaths in Gaza
> 
> 
> According to established Israeli military policy every Gazan is a target — and that’s not an accident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly!!
> They want to kill civilians, that's why they warn civilians to evacuate before they hit a target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel - Leave your house we are going to destroy it.
> 
> Palestinians - Why thank you. You are so kind.
Click to expand...

It's pretty typical that your characterization of events are simply nonsensical.









						Moment Gaza man receives IDF warning to evacuate building before airstrike - The Global Herald
					

The Telegraph published this video item, entitled "Moment Gaza man receives IDF warning to evacuate building before airstrike" - below is their description.



					theglobalherald.com
				





Just curious. Did your islamic terrorist heroes advise israelis of the impending islamic terrorist rocket launches?


----------



## Hollie

It's such a puzzlement. Hamas has frequent, silly fashion shows where they parade down streets wearing military style uniforms. Yet, those uniforms must be out for dry cleaning and unavailable when these same Islamic terrorists are hiding behind Gaza civilians as they wage war on Israeli civilians.


Oh my. What must it be like for the Ummah's men when an Israeli commander; ''Libby'' describes Israeli war planning / Islamic terrorist busting.

"_Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme." (Dawood's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)_

"Oh, the pain''









						IDF's Capt Libby Weiss explains how Israel identifies locations of attack on Gaza strip
					

Israeli Defence Forces Spokesperson Captain Libby Weiss gave an elaborate account of the tense situation and how is Israel giving a befitting reply to Hamas




					www.republicworld.com
				




Speaking of how difficult it is to locate the Hamas terrorists, Captain Libby said, it is certainly a challenge as the terrorists are camouflaging in civilian areas in the Gaza strip and the Israeli Defence Force has to rely on the intelligence information in order to strike with precision on the terrorists inflicting fewer casualties on the civilians.

"It is certainly a challenge, the Hamas terrorists intentionally hide among the densely packed civilian population within the Gaza strip. So we rely on intelligence information. We make every effort possible to limit the impact on civilians. We call civilians and ask them to vacate as soon as possible," she said.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: *Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt): Flash Update #10*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: There is a past history of hostile behaviors that have been mended to the Arab Palestinian Culture.  It is called terrorism.  And they are proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. Trauma.
> 
> I suppose the expectation is that the islamic terrorists are entitled to the international community paying for the cost of the failed Pally gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Hamas claim victory as fragile ceasefire holds
> 
> 
> UN urges calm after Israeli police storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound following Friday prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Health Organization says 8,538 people injured across Gaza with 30 health facilities damaged during 11-day Israeli bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of war crimes here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take notice that the UN has observed that _(while Israel is used to being blamed for every little thing)_ the Flash Update did make the following recommendations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN High Commissioner of Human Rights (HCHR) Flash Update #10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message to the General Assembly, the Secretary-General (UN SG) reiterated his call on all sides for an immediate ceasefire, pointing out that “if there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza today”. He also urged the *Israeli authorities “to abide by the laws governing armed conflict,* including the proportionate use of force”, and _*“Hamas and other militant groups to stop the indiscriminate launching of rockets and mortars from highly populated civilian neighbourhoods into civilian population centres in Israel*_.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please take note of the insert I placed in *Posting #19432*.  While the UN SG only made reference to three Laws Governing Armed Conflict _*(Rules 11, 23, 24)*_ as they pertain to HAMAS, the UN is still attempting to undermine the concept of "overwhelming military response" especially when decades of lesser proportional responses have had no effect on the neutralization of the Arab Palestinian active threats and actual attacks from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem.  When "proportional responses" fail to address and counteract the activity and impact of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, THEN it is time to ratchet up the military response.
> 
> “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_
> There is but one answer to terrorism and it is best
> delivered with a Winchester rifle.
> ..........................................― _Theodore Roosevelt_​
> *WHEN* speaking softly (proportional response) does not work → *THEN* use the BIG stick.  That is what it is there for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel commits crimes against Palestinians by the score yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine.
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border and only attack colonial settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you wrote was false and accompanied by a youtube video that was nonsense.
> 
> At least you're consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's 'Dahiya Doctrine,' a plan for mass civilian deaths in Gaza
> 
> 
> According to established Israeli military policy every Gazan is a target — and that’s not an accident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly!!
> They want to kill civilians, that's why they warn civilians to evacuate before they hit a target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel - Leave your house we are going to destroy it.
> 
> Palestinians - Why thank you. You are so kind.
Click to expand...


I'm glad I was able to point out your lie.


----------



## Hollie

With the Pally’s past history of association and ideological connection to Nazi Germany, it’s not surprising they would return to the propaganda they know so well. 











						PA hijacks Nazi terminology to demonize Israel and Jews | PMW Analysis
					

Israeli “detention camps have become most similar to the Nazi crematoriums”




					www.palwatch.org
				





PA hijacks Nazi terminology to demonize Israel and Jews​Maurice Hirsch, Adv  | May 21, 2021

*“Israel has repeated Kristallnacht”*​
*Israeli “detention camps have become most similar to the Nazi crematoriums”*​
As part of the Palestinian Authority’s relentless demonizing of Israel and Jews, it often invokes Nazi era terminology to try to conjure a parallel between the actions of the Nazi’s and the actions of Israel or Jews.
Rewriting the story of the wide scale riots of Israeli Arabs that started on May 10 in the Israeli city of Lod, regular columnist Bassem Bahoum commented:


> “Before the eyes of the world Israel has repeated Kristallnacht, the night on which members of the Nazi party in Germany burned and destroyed the Jews’ stores and property, and this was when it let fascist extremist groups destroy the property of Palestinians in Lod, Jaffa, Haifa, and Acre.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 17, 2021]


----------



## Hollie

It’s not surprising that like minded Pally Jew haters will seek each other out. 










						Shameful Silence: Nets Ignore Rashida Tlaib’s Fundraiser With Holocaust Skeptic
					

The journalists hiding the anti-Semitism of Congressman Rashida Tlaib continued this work this week as ABC, CBS and NBC ignored the revelation that the Democrat participated in a virtual campaign event in March with an extreme Palestinian activist who has questioned the Holocaust. Tlaib appeared...




					www.newsbusters.org
				




The journalists hiding the anti-Semitism of Congressman Rashida Tlaib continued this work this week as ABC, CBS and NBC ignored the revelation that the Democrat participated in a virtual campaign event in March with an extreme Palestinian activist who has questioned the Holocaust. Tlaib appeared with activist Maher Abdel-qader. As FoxNews.com reported on Wednesday, “In one case, he shared a now-deleted video to Facebook that claimed ‘satanic’ Jews secretly control the media and have exaggerated the Holocaust’s death toll.”


----------



## Hollie

The welfare begging has begun.

“_Palestinian officials say tens of millions of dollars will be needed to rebuild…”_









						Israel-Palestinian conflict: Aid arrives in Gaza as ceasefire holds
					

Humanitarian convoys arrive as Gazans take stock of the damage from 11 days of intense fighting.



					www.bbc.com
				




Palestinian officials say tens of millions of dollars will be needed to rebuild the already impoverished enclave that is also suffering with Covid-19.


----------



## Hollie

Time to get that Islamic terrorist welfare train on the tracks. 












						The Latest: UN Security Council urges aid for Palestinians
					

UNITED NATIONS — The U.N. Security Council is welcoming the cease-fire between Israel and Gaza’s Hamas rulers and calls for full adherence to the cessation of hostilities.  Saturday's statement was approved by all 15 members of the council.




					apnews.com
				




GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — A Palestinian official says an initial assessment shows at least 2,000 housing units were destroyed in the fighting between Israel and Palestinian militant groups in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Yahya Sinwar made an appearance in Gaza. Apparently, a survey of the latest trashing of Gaza will have him skedaddle back into hiding. 











						Hamas leader in Gaza makes first public appearance since operation
					

Hamas' leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar made a public appearance for the first time since Operation Guardians of th




					m.jpost.com
				





Hamas' leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar made a public appearance for the first time since Operation Guardians of the Walls came to an end on Friday, Ynet reported. 

On Friday, Defense Minister Benny Gantz warned the Hamas leadership of Israeli retaliation, "even after the ceasefire comes into effect."


----------



## Hollie

Now that the war initiated by Islamic terrorists has temporarily halted, the gee-had wannabes suddenly found their military uniforms. 










						Israel and Hamas both claim victory as ceasefire holds
					

Israel and Hamas both claimed victory on Friday after their forces ended 11 days of fighting, but humanitarian officials warned that the damage to Gaza would take years to rebuild.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the “pro Pally” protests in the UK were an opportunity for the pious Moslems to express their Jew killing, gee-had tirades. 











						WATCH: UK Activist Calls for 'Muslim Armies' to Wage 'Jihad' Against Israel
					

Footage has emerged of an Anti-Israel activist in Britain calling for the "Muslim armies" of the world to wage a "jihad" against Israel.




					www.breitbart.com


----------



## Hollie

Right on cue. The Islamic terrorists held a fashion show parade where they pranced around in military uniforms looking all, you know, military and stuff.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Palesstinians - Prove Themselves Yet Again to be a Danger to Humanity
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_

*BLUF*: The pro•Palestinians, no matter what they may say, are actually a culture of violence as they once again call for "Jihad."  This as we all know is a violation of  Civil and Political Rights.

​
Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law. 

Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred
that constitutes incitement to discrimination, 
hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
​*(COMMENT)*

It has not been quite a year since the Muslim Campaign opposing Regional peace arrangements in progress.  The claim being made is that nothing endangers Palestine and its holy sites more than making an alliance with Israel.  It is the Arab Palestinians that are actively hindering the peace process.  Once Israel skips over the Arab Palestinians and moves on to other Arab League members, the reality for peace surfaces.

The assumption that the Quartet has worked with is the Arab Palestinians "MUST" be part of the peace process.  Drop that assumption from the political equation and the successes begin to emerge.





_Most Respectfully,_
R
.


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Palesstinians - Prove Themselves Yet Again to be a Danger to Humanity
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: The pro•Palestinians, no matter what they may say, are actually a culture of violence as they once again call for "Jihad."  This as we all know is a violation of  Civil and Political Rights.
> 
> 
> View attachment 492565
> 
> 
> Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred
> that constitutes incitement to discrimination,
> hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
> View attachment 492574​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> It has not been quite a year since the Muslim Campaign opposing Regional peace arrangements in progress.  The claim being made is that nothing endangers Palestine and its holy sites more than making an alliance with Israel.  It is the Arab Palestinians that are actively hindering the peace process.  Once Israel skips over the Arab Palestinians and moves on to other Arab League members, the reality for peace surfaces.
> 
> The assumption that the Quartet has worked with is the Arab Palestinians "MUST" be part of the peace process.  Drop that assumption from the political equation and the successes begin to emerge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> .




“_The assumption that the Quartet has worked with is the Arab Palestinians "MUST" be part of the peace process.  Drop that assumption from the political equation and the successes begin to emerge.”_


With reference to the last portion of your post, we need to listen to what the Pals are telling us in no uncertain terms.


----------



## Hollie

With the earlier fawning by the EU (and the UN), over alleged Pally elections and claiming the Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicate “a legitimate participant in the Palestinian Authority elections”, it seems these folks need some serious credibility checks. 










						What would the EU and UN have done if Hamas had won the PA elections? | PMW Analysis
					

From May 10 through May 20, Hamas, the internationally designated terror organization that controls the Gaza Strip, fired over 4,300 missiles against Israel, targeting its civilian population




					www.palwatch.org
				





From May 10 through May 20, Hamas, the internationally designated terror organization that controls the Gaza Strip, fired over 4,300 missiles against Israel, targeting its civilian population. By May 20, 12 people (9 Israelis and 3 foreign nationals) had been murdered and hundreds more had been injured. There is no doubt that Hamas is responsible for committing multiple war crimes.

Just weeks ago, before the latest cycle of Palestinian violence flared up, the European Union and the United Nations considered the homicidal terror group to be a legitimate participant in the Palestinian Authority elections.

When PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas called the election in January, a statement of the Office of the European Union Representative (West Bank and Gaza Strip, UNRWA), welcomed the decision saying:



> “This is a welcome development as participative, representative and accountable democratic institutions are key for Palestinian self-determination and state-building.”
> [EU website, Jan. 16, 2021]




On the same day, the EU announced that it was launching a €2.1 million fund to support the readiness of the PA Central Elections Committee. The EU said that it would donate €1.5 million to that fund.  

A statement of the Spokesperson of the UN Secretary-General, Stephane Dujarric, reflected the same sentiment:



> “The holding of elections in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza will be a crucial step towards Palestinian unity, giving renewed legitimacy to national institutions, including a democratically elected Parliament and Government in Palestine.”
> [UN Secretary-General website, Jan. 16, 2021]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

There are a lot of valid points in the linked article delineating the stark differences between Israel and the Islamic terrorist enclaves.

One paragraph in particular is a good summation. 










						The False Moral Equivalence Between Israel and Palestinian Terrorism
					

Hamas supporters take part in a protest against Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to postpone planned parliamentary elections, in the …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





The widespread belief is that the vast majority of Palestinians just want to live in peace. But a very large portion of Palestinians support terrorism. In 2016, when asked the question, “To what extent do you support or oppose the continuation of knife attacks against Israelis?”, West Bank Palestinians were about 50/50, while almost 80% of Gazans expressed support. This should not astound anybody. After all, Palestinians name streets and squares after terrorists, and educate their children to hate Jews.


----------



## Hollie

The linked article does note that among the regional Arab nations; Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco and Sudan, not a one was rushing to defend Hamas and Iran.

That would have been almost unthinkable 5 years ago but indicates the evolving strategies of those nations. 










						Gaza war acumen
					

The absence of tangible Arab support for Hamas’s war on Israel reflects the consistent Arab view of both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas as role models of intra-Arab terrorism, subversion and ingratitude.




					www.jns.org
				





May 20, 2021 / JNS) Amid the ongoing fighting between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, it is worth noting that no pro-U.S. Arab regime—for example, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco and Sudan—has offered tangible support for the terror group, which is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The main reason for this is that the Brotherhood constitutes an existential threat to these regimes, as it aims to topple them all in order to establish a universal Islamic society, through political, social and violent means. Eventually, it aspires to bring non-Muslims, and especially Western democracies, to submission.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The linked article does note that among the regional Arab nations; Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco and Sudan, not a one was rushing to defend Hamas and Iran.
> 
> That would have been almost unthinkable 5 years ago but indicates the evolving strategies of those nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza war acumen
> 
> 
> The absence of tangible Arab support for Hamas’s war on Israel reflects the consistent Arab view of both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas as role models of intra-Arab terrorism, subversion and ingratitude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 20, 2021 / JNS) Amid the ongoing fighting between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, it is worth noting that no pro-U.S. Arab regime—for example, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco and Sudan—has offered tangible support for the terror group, which is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> The main reason for this is that the Brotherhood constitutes an existential threat to these regimes, as it aims to topple them all in order to establish a universal Islamic society, through political, social and violent means. Eventually, it aspires to bring non-Muslims, and especially Western democracies, to submission.


They want to topple all those despots and dictators?

Oh my.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The linked article does note that among the regional Arab nations; Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco and Sudan, not a one was rushing to defend Hamas and Iran.
> 
> That would have been almost unthinkable 5 years ago but indicates the evolving strategies of those nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza war acumen
> 
> 
> The absence of tangible Arab support for Hamas’s war on Israel reflects the consistent Arab view of both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas as role models of intra-Arab terrorism, subversion and ingratitude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 20, 2021 / JNS) Amid the ongoing fighting between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, it is worth noting that no pro-U.S. Arab regime—for example, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco and Sudan—has offered tangible support for the terror group, which is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> The main reason for this is that the Brotherhood constitutes an existential threat to these regimes, as it aims to topple them all in order to establish a universal Islamic society, through political, social and violent means. Eventually, it aspires to bring non-Muslims, and especially Western democracies, to submission.
> 
> 
> 
> They want to topple all those despots and dictators?
> 
> Oh my.
Click to expand...

You’re as incoherent as usual.

What a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

While I would like to hope that European nations would take a hard look at the Islamic terrorist funding their aid money provides, I just see any real efforts to cut off the welfare payments to Islamic terrorists.












						The End of Europe’s Romance With Palestinian Terror?
					

European High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini shakes hands with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Brussels, Belgium on January …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




The arrest and indictment of four individuals with high-level positions in the benignly named Health Workers Committee, who are charged with diverting NGO funds directly to terror groups, shines a bright spotlight on this core dimension of the NGO industry. After many years of hiding the details and denying the extensive evidence of links published in NGO Monitor research reports, it will now be harder for the European officials in charge of the funding to continue to claim “we did not know,” “the evidence you provide is not absolute proof,” or “we do not need to examine the recipients because other countries and the UN are funding the same groups.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> While I would like to hope that European nations would take a hard look at the Islamic terrorist funding their aid money provides, I just see any real efforts to cut off the welfare payments to Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The End of Europe’s Romance With Palestinian Terror?
> 
> 
> European High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini shakes hands with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Brussels, Belgium on January …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrest and indictment of four individuals with high-level positions in the benignly named Health Workers Committee, who are charged with diverting NGO funds directly to terror groups, shines a bright spotlight on this core dimension of the NGO industry. After many years of hiding the details and denying the extensive evidence of links published in NGO Monitor research reports, it will now be harder for the European officials in charge of the funding to continue to claim “we did not know,” “the evidence you provide is not absolute proof,” or “we do not need to examine the recipients because other countries and the UN are funding the same groups.”


NGO Monitor is an Israel propaganda organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I would like to hope that European nations would take a hard look at the Islamic terrorist funding their aid money provides, I just see any real efforts to cut off the welfare payments to Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The End of Europe’s Romance With Palestinian Terror?
> 
> 
> European High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini shakes hands with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Brussels, Belgium on January …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrest and indictment of four individuals with high-level positions in the benignly named Health Workers Committee, who are charged with diverting NGO funds directly to terror groups, shines a bright spotlight on this core dimension of the NGO industry. After many years of hiding the details and denying the extensive evidence of links published in NGO Monitor research reports, it will now be harder for the European officials in charge of the funding to continue to claim “we did not know,” “the evidence you provide is not absolute proof,” or “we do not need to examine the recipients because other countries and the UN are funding the same groups.”
> 
> 
> 
> NGO Monitor is an Israel propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


A convenient excuse. Are you suffering from hurt feelings that questions are being raised about Islamic terrorists receiving European welfare money?


----------



## Hollie

I’m afraid that the obvious reality of humanitarian aid to the Pally land grabbers being used to wage the Islamic gee-had has been an obvious flaw for decades. President Trump knew this reality and cut off the Islamic terrorist welfare spigot. 












						By Renewing Palestinian Aid, America Is Funding Terrorism
					

We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.




					nationalinterest.org
				




We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.


----------



## Esdraelon

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

Israel has accepted multiple agreements proposed by world governments.  The Arab Muslims who call themselves "Palestinians" have rejected EVERY ONE OF THEM.  They've made it very clear that it isn't the size of the state of Israel, it is the EXISTENCE of the state of Israel that they'll never accept.  
The Samson option is completely acceptable IMO.  Here's an idea.  Leave them alone and let them live on that land and no one has to worry about it.  Come against them with the power to eliminate them and their children and they'll burn it all down.
The choice is clear.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I would like to hope that European nations would take a hard look at the Islamic terrorist funding their aid money provides, I just see any real efforts to cut off the welfare payments to Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The End of Europe’s Romance With Palestinian Terror?
> 
> 
> European High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini shakes hands with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Brussels, Belgium on January …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrest and indictment of four individuals with high-level positions in the benignly named Health Workers Committee, who are charged with diverting NGO funds directly to terror groups, shines a bright spotlight on this core dimension of the NGO industry. After many years of hiding the details and denying the extensive evidence of links published in NGO Monitor research reports, it will now be harder for the European officials in charge of the funding to continue to claim “we did not know,” “the evidence you provide is not absolute proof,” or “we do not need to examine the recipients because other countries and the UN are funding the same groups.”
> 
> 
> 
> NGO Monitor is an Israel propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A convenient excuse. Are you suffering from hurt feelings that questions are being raised about Islamic terrorists receiving European welfare money?
Click to expand...

No, just stating the fact that you cannot believe what NGO Monitor says.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I would like to hope that European nations would take a hard look at the Islamic terrorist funding their aid money provides, I just see any real efforts to cut off the welfare payments to Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The End of Europe’s Romance With Palestinian Terror?
> 
> 
> European High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini shakes hands with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Brussels, Belgium on January …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The arrest and indictment of four individuals with high-level positions in the benignly named Health Workers Committee, who are charged with diverting NGO funds directly to terror groups, shines a bright spotlight on this core dimension of the NGO industry. After many years of hiding the details and denying the extensive evidence of links published in NGO Monitor research reports, it will now be harder for the European officials in charge of the funding to continue to claim “we did not know,” “the evidence you provide is not absolute proof,” or “we do not need to examine the recipients because other countries and the UN are funding the same groups.”
> 
> 
> 
> NGO Monitor is an Israel propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A convenient excuse. Are you suffering from hurt feelings that questions are being raised about Islamic terrorists receiving European welfare money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, just stating the fact that you cannot believe what NGO Monitor says.
Click to expand...


Your ''phacts'' tend to be divorced from facts.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorists of Hamas do have an obvious pattern of creating their humiliating losses in their wars with Israel. Now that the Hamas leaders in Tehran are interested in more dead Sunni, it is likely that Tehran will soon end the Hudna and order more attacks aimed at Israel. 













						There is only one honest answer to this Israel-Palestinian conflict: Condemning Hamas terrorism
					

The tactic is obvious and recurring. Every few years, Hamas finds an excuse to attack Israel — by rockets, tunnels, terrorism. They know that: a) Israel will defend its civilians, as any country under attack would; b) the international community, the hard left and some of academia will condemn...




					www.nydailynews.com
				




The tactic is obvious and recurring. Every few years, Hamas finds an excuse to attack Israel — by rockets, tunnels, terrorism. They know that: a) Israel will defend its civilians, as any country under attack would; b) the international community, the hard left and some of academia will condemn Israel for “overreacting”; c) Israel will win the military war, but Hamas will win the propaganda war; d) the trade-off will be worth it to Hamas, which will continue to employ this tactic so long as it reaps a propaganda benefit from it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Cutting off the sources of funding for islamic terrorists is something we need to be more aggressive at doing. 












						Four Palestinians to be charged with diverting European aid to terrorism
					

Charges are set to be brought against the suspects to the Judea Military Court in the coming days.




					www.jpost.com
				




Four Palestinians are expected to be indicted for funneling European humanitarian aid to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a designated terrorist group, the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) announced on Thursday.

Charges are set to be brought against the suspects in the Judea Military Court in the coming days.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Financing
⁜→  Hollie, _et al,_

*BLUF*: I agree without any reservation.  Our friend "Hollie" is right on the money.



Hollie said:


> Cutting off the sources of funding for islamic terrorists is something we need to be more aggressive at doing.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure that the International Community actually supports the idea.  While International Community (on the one hand) openly agrees with the concept, they often simply ignore the issues.
1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism​
Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.
In the case of the Middle East and North Africa, Israel is really the only country that implements such laws and actually enforces them on the basis of counter-terrorism _(not for political gain)_.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now there is another seemingly innocuous construction material that has joined the arsenal of terror: water pipes. There were some reports that Israel was surprised by the high number of rockets - 4,300 - that Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists had in their arsenals to launch against civilians in Israeli cities in the recent 11-day Gaza war. Now the Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad has explained this: He bragged that the “resistance engineers” have turned “water pipes… into the rockets that you see.”

The ability to easily turn construction materials into lethal rockets in simple underground factories, creates new challenges for Israel. It means that Israel must be even more cautious about what dual-purpose materials are allowed into the Gaza Strip and who controls their distribution.

(full article online)









						Water pipes were turned into rockets by Gaza terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

Terrorists’ ability to turn household civilian products into the tools of terror has always created a challenge for peaceful states fighting terror.




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Terrorist Financing
⁜→ Sixties Fan, _et al,_

*BLUF*:   Yeah, this is often troublesome, especially when it involves infrastructure materials.



Dual Use Technology​


Sixties Fan said:


> Now there is another seemingly innocuous construction material that has joined the arsenal of terror: water pipes. There were some reports that Israel was surprised by the high number of rockets - 4,300 - that Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists had in their arsenals to launch against civilians in Israeli cities in the recent 11-day Gaza war. Now the Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad has explained this: He bragged that the “resistance engineers” have turned “water pipes… into the rockets that you see.”
> 
> The ability to easily turn construction materials into lethal rockets in simple underground factories, creates new challenges for Israel. It means that Israel must be even more cautious about what dual-purpose materials are allowed into the Gaza Strip and who controls their distribution.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Water pipes were turned into rockets by Gaza terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Terrorists’ ability to turn household civilian products into the tools of terror has always created a challenge for peaceful states fighting terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have proven to be quite resourceful.  But I'm wondering if this was not originally foreign-inspired.

GAZA Gateway • *The dual use list finally gets published but it’s the opposite of useful*
• COGAT:  *Cabinet Decision (2010)*  "The list of controlled items (page 7) is based strictly on security considerations."​




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
Click to expand...

More of your YouTube gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

Sacrifices must be made for the islamic terrorist gee-had... like indoor plumbing. 













						Water pipes were turned into rockets by Gaza terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

Terrorists’ ability to turn household civilian products into the tools of terror has always created a challenge for peaceful states fighting terror.




					palwatch.org
				




Terrorists’ ability to turn seemingly innocent household commodities into the tools of terror has always created a challenge for peaceful states fighting terror. Fertilizer has been used to build lethal bombs and instead of using tons of cement that Israel permitted into the Gaza Strip for the building of homes, schools and factories, Hamas built 100 kilometers of terror tunnels that Israel destroyed in the recent war.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my . Someone in the PA islamic terrorist franchise has their falafel in a bunch.  It seems neither Iran nor Hamas were following islamo-protocol.


Nabil Abu Rudeineh, Spokesman For Palestinian Authority President Abbas: If Iran Wants To Give Aid To Palestinians It Should Respect Palestinian Sovereignty And Do So Through The PA – Not Hamas​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Some world class sucking up to the Mullocrats. *​​​​​​Iranian TV Highlights Clip Of Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh Thanking Iran For Providing Hamas With Money, Weapons, And Technical Support​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Oh, my . Someone in the PA islamic terrorist franchise has their falafel in a bunch.  It seems neither Iran nor Hamas were following islamo-protocol.
> 
> 
> Nabil Abu Rudeineh, Spokesman For Palestinian Authority President Abbas: If Iran Wants To Give Aid To Palestinians It Should Respect Palestinian Sovereignty And Do So Through The PA – Not Hamas​


The Government in Gaza is moire legitimate than the "PA" in the West Bank. The last legally constituted government in Palestinw was in March of 2007. All the governments formed in the West Bank since then have been illegal.


----------



## Hollie

Anyone with their eyes open can understand that Islamic terrorist attacks are furthered by financing and incentives for perpetrators of those attacks,

Cut financing for Islamic terrorism and you go a long way toward minimizing the attacks. 

The immediate problem in the region is Biden deciding to send Anthony Blinken to the area. This ultimately means more money thrown at the Pally terrorists. 











						The Nexus of Middle East Terrorism: Iran, Palestinian Leadership, and Hamas | American Center for Law and Justice
					

It is no coincidence that one month after beginning negotiations with Iran over the nuclear deal (the JCPOA), with a goal of lifting sanctions, Iranian-backed terrorists attacked Israel. It is not happenstance that mere weeks after the Biden Administration renewed financial aid to the Palestinian...




					aclj.org
				




It is no coincidence that one month after beginning negotiations with Iran over the nuclear deal (the JCPOA), with a goal of lifting sanctions, Iranian-backed terrorists attacked Israel.  It is not happenstance that mere weeks after the Biden Administration renewed financial aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) and its “pay for slay” terrorist subsidies that Palestinian terrorists fired thousands of rockets on civilians in Israel.

In short:  We begin talks with Iran.  We give the PA cash.  Iran supports the PA, the direct heir of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), a terrorist organization.  In the name of the Palestinians, Hamas—the premier Middle East terror group along with Hezbollah—purchases rockets and rocket technology from Iran.  Thus, the region is on fire and innocent Israelis and Palestinians are killed and wounded.


----------



## Hollie

How,, nice. 

I wonder if BLM has a lot of spare hockey gear the islamic terrorists can borrow. 










						Black Lives Matter 'stands in solidarity' with Palestinians, vows to fight for 'Palestinian liberation'
					

The leading Black Lives Matter organization declared “solidarity with Palestinians” Monday, a week after Hamas terrorists in Gaza began firing a relentless barrage of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately shelling civilian targets as well as dropping some missiles short and blowing up buildings...




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Palestinian" Woman Makes Video Exposing the Crimes of Her Own People
					

Wow, now this is a rare video.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A brand new organization called The Palestine Freedom Fund was created specifically for this fundraiser and it is managed by an alliance including Al-Awda, the Palestine Right to Return Coalition – NY; American Muslims for Palestine – NJ; Samidoun Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network; and Within Our Lifetime – United for Palestine.

(full article online)









						Palestinian groups in US fundraising for their heroes who attack Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestine Freedom Fund


Thanks for the link.

*Our Palestinian communities are under attack. Help us stand together to fight criminalization and support targeted youth! *

The Palestine Freedom Fund is a project of the NY4Palestine Coalition. Every day, Palestinian youth and activists for Palestine are targeted for criminalization, surveillance, protest arrests and police brutality. The Palestine Freedom Fund works to support bail and legal expenses for Palestinian organizers, activists for Palestine and community members targeted for persecution.

Your donation will help to protect our communities and support the movement for Palestinian liberation. Let’s get our detained and arrested activists FREE!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Freedom Fund
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> *Our Palestinian communities are under attack. Help us stand together to fight criminalization and support targeted youth! *
> 
> The Palestine Freedom Fund is a project of the NY4Palestine Coalition. Every day, Palestinian youth and activists for Palestine are targeted for criminalization, surveillance, protest arrests and police brutality. The Palestine Freedom Fund works to support bail and legal expenses for Palestinian organizers, activists for Palestine and community members targeted for persecution.
> 
> Your donation will help to protect our communities and support the movement for Palestinian liberation. Let’s get our detained and arrested activists FREE!
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Freedom Fund
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> *Our Palestinian communities are under attack. Help us stand together to fight criminalization and support targeted youth! *
> 
> The Palestine Freedom Fund is a project of the NY4Palestine Coalition. Every day, Palestinian youth and activists for Palestine are targeted for criminalization, surveillance, protest arrests and police brutality. The Palestine Freedom Fund works to support bail and legal expenses for Palestinian organizers, activists for Palestine and community members targeted for persecution.
> 
> Your donation will help to protect our communities and support the movement for Palestinian liberation. Let’s get our detained and arrested activists FREE!
Click to expand...

Oh, you poor, oppressed darling. You're a delicate flower. Being safely ensconced in the Great Satan means you're among those poor, oppressed, down trodden keyboard gee-hadeeeeeees.



"Islamic terrorist liberation''.

“Israel will exist, and will continue to exist, until Islam abolishes it, as it abolished that which was before it.” [From the words of] The martyr, Imam Hasan al-Banna’, Allah’s mercy be upon him. [2]


Islamic ideology has never liberated anyone. Islamic history is one of war, conquest and rapine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I do think there is an obvious case to made that throwing money at islamic terrorists every time they lose a war of aggression is an act of reward for that islamic terrorism. 











						If the US wants to be humane, it won’t ‘rebuild’ Gaza
					

Reconstruction to show sympathy for Palestinian victims will reward Hamas terrorism and flash a green light for more wars aimed at destroying Israel.




					www.jns.org
				




Reconstruction to show sympathy for Palestinian victims will reward Hamas terrorism and flash a green light for more wars aimed at destroying Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Doesn't this guy have a job?

Oh, that's right, he is doing it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't this guy have a job?
> 
> Oh, that's right, he is doing it.
Click to expand...

Hurt feelings?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas organization does not hide it’s goals and deserves to be taken at face value. They are no different than many other terrorist organizations who say clearly what they believe in. A common mistake that is often made by so many is to not take the words of leaders of terrorist organizations seriously. When they say that they target civilians, they mean that they want to kill women and children. When they say that they want to destroy the State of Israel, they mean it.

(full article online)









						Hamas Leader Admits Targeting Civilians with Rockets in Exclusive Interview
					

This is absolutely insane - how can the world not side with Israel?




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

As we've seen in previous wars, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights happily spouts lies about the civilian status of the people killed in wars with Israel, accusing Israel of targeting civilians when it simply isn't true.

Here's a sad story PCHR made up:




> At approximately 23:50 (May 14), Israeli warplanes launched at least 15 missiles at ‘Abed al-Razeq Qlaibo Mosque and its surrounding near Qlaibo Hill in Beit Lahia. As a result, the mosque was completely destroyed. Five minutes later, the residents of the area thought that the targeted house belonged to Hatem al-Mansi, which is to the southern side of the mosque, so they ran to evacuate al-Mansi family members. When the residents arrived at al-Mansi’s house and entered it, an Israeli drone fired a missile at the house garden. As a result, 3 civilians, including 2 brothers, were killed while 5 others, including a woman, were injured. One of those injured sustained serious wounds. Those killed were identified as: Ahmed (34) and Yousef (22) Hatem Mahmoud al-Mansi (34) and Ahmed Mohammed ‘Abed al-‘Aziz Sabbah (28). Moreover, 4 houses near the targeted mosque from the western side, other nearby houses and electricity and communication networks sustained severe damage


Ahmed Hatem Al Mansi: 

(full article online)









						PCHR has lots of fake civilians in Gaza
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

As was expected, a spokes-terrorist for the Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise is making threats. 

Pursuant to the forever sense of entitlement assumed by the islamic terrorists, the world is expected to give them something. It's incumbent on the world to give them what they want, to meet their bellicose demands. 

It's a psychopathy of the criminally insane. 
*“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​










						“We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die” | PMW Analysis
					

“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”




					www.palwatch.org
				




“We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die”​Itamar Marcus  | May 25, 2021
*Rajoub:*​
*“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
*“Down to the last of the lion cubs (i.e., children) in this [Fatah] Movement – we are all potential Martyrs”*​
*“[Fatah] will continue its struggle regardless of the price”*​
On the last day of the recent terror war with Hamas, while the final terms of a ceasefire were being negotiated between Israel and Hamas last Thursday (May 20.), top PA and Fatah leader Jibril Rajoub vowed that the PA/Fatah “will continue the cycle of blood and killing.”


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists issue threats and Biden sends in the clowns.

President Trump having heard those threats might have demanded a return of previous welfare contributions.










						Blinken Pledges US Support to Rebuild Gaza Amid Efforts to Bolster Ceasefire
					

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken pledged on a Middle East mission on Tuesday that Washington would rally support to rebuild Gaza as part of efforts to bolster a ceasefire between its Hamas Islamist rulers and Israel. But Blinken made clear that the United States...




					www.newsmax.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> As was expected, a spokes-terrorist for the Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise is making threats.
> 
> Pursuant to the forever sense of entitlement assumed by the islamic terrorists, the world is expected to give them something. It's incumbent on the world to give them what they want, to meet their bellicose demands.
> 
> It's a psychopathy of the criminally insane.
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die”​Itamar Marcus  | May 25, 2021
> *Rajoub:*​
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> *“Down to the last of the lion cubs (i.e., children) in this [Fatah] Movement – we are all potential Martyrs”*​
> *“[Fatah] will continue its struggle regardless of the price”*​
> On the last day of the recent terror war with Hamas, while the final terms of a ceasefire were being negotiated between Israel and Hamas last Thursday (May 20.), top PA and Fatah leader Jibril Rajoub vowed that the PA/Fatah “will continue the cycle of blood and killing.”


Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As was expected, a spokes-terrorist for the Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise is making threats.
> 
> Pursuant to the forever sense of entitlement assumed by the islamic terrorists, the world is expected to give them something. It's incumbent on the world to give them what they want, to meet their bellicose demands.
> 
> It's a psychopathy of the criminally insane.
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die”​Itamar Marcus  | May 25, 2021
> *Rajoub:*​
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> *“Down to the last of the lion cubs (i.e., children) in this [Fatah] Movement – we are all potential Martyrs”*​
> *“[Fatah] will continue its struggle regardless of the price”*​
> On the last day of the recent terror war with Hamas, while the final terms of a ceasefire were being negotiated between Israel and Hamas last Thursday (May 20.), top PA and Fatah leader Jibril Rajoub vowed that the PA/Fatah “will continue the cycle of blood and killing.”
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
Click to expand...


*Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.*

Hello, Hamas?
It's Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As was expected, a spokes-terrorist for the Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise is making threats.
> 
> Pursuant to the forever sense of entitlement assumed by the islamic terrorists, the world is expected to give them something. It's incumbent on the world to give them what they want, to meet their bellicose demands.
> 
> It's a psychopathy of the criminally insane.
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die”​Itamar Marcus  | May 25, 2021
> *Rajoub:*​
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> *“Down to the last of the lion cubs (i.e., children) in this [Fatah] Movement – we are all potential Martyrs”*​
> *“[Fatah] will continue its struggle regardless of the price”*​
> On the last day of the recent terror war with Hamas, while the final terms of a ceasefire were being negotiated between Israel and Hamas last Thursday (May 20.), top PA and Fatah leader Jibril Rajoub vowed that the PA/Fatah “will continue the cycle of blood and killing.”
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.*
> 
> Hello, Hamas?
> It's Israel.
> 
> View attachment 493486
Click to expand...

I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

On International Women's Day, Khalida Jarrar Sends Letter from Prison to Palestinian Women (VIDEO)
					

"My companions and sisters in Palestine, the Arab countries, and around the world," wrote Jarrar, "from my prison, I am sending my warmest greetings to you as I am proud of you and your fight against all forms of injustice, persecution, and oppression."




					www.palestinechronicle.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes.



Like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind civilians?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists. 

In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.

For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.

EXAMPLE: 



			
				Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
			
		

> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*


Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity. 




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As was expected, a spokes-terrorist for the Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise is making threats.
> 
> Pursuant to the forever sense of entitlement assumed by the islamic terrorists, the world is expected to give them something. It's incumbent on the world to give them what they want, to meet their bellicose demands.
> 
> It's a psychopathy of the criminally insane.
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We will continue the cycle of blood and killing,” threatens Fatah leader Rajoub - “We are not the only ones who will die”​Itamar Marcus  | May 25, 2021
> *Rajoub:*​
> *“Either the world will give us a solution or we will continue the cycle of blood and killing”*​
> *“Down to the last of the lion cubs (i.e., children) in this [Fatah] Movement – we are all potential Martyrs”*​
> *“[Fatah] will continue its struggle regardless of the price”*​
> On the last day of the recent terror war with Hamas, while the final terms of a ceasefire were being negotiated between Israel and Hamas last Thursday (May 20.), top PA and Fatah leader Jibril Rajoub vowed that the PA/Fatah “will continue the cycle of blood and killing.”
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.*
> 
> Hello, Hamas?
> It's Israel.
> 
> View attachment 493486
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
Click to expand...

Another of your emotional outbursts that makes no sense.


----------



## Ben Thomson

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

As to your headline question..found this..'Palestine vs. Israel as the *Name* of the *Holy* *Land* During the last few centuries, the world, Christians included, has fallen into a bad habit. We have bought into some early Roman propaganda. We have used the *name* Palestine, which Roman Emperor Hadrian placed on the country of Israel in 135 A.D., for so long that it has become common usage'.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?

What are you trying to say? English please.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
Click to expand...


_*You don’t get it!*_

English enough?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.



Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?


----------



## Hollie

Even in their homeland of Lebanon, the so-called Pally’s are viewed as undesirables​​Lebanese Journalist Simon Abou Fadel: I Do Not Sympathize with Radical Groups Like Hamas​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Darn Israelis, exposing Hamas when they hide in schools and hospitals, homes and businesses.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

Substantiated as an act of barbarism.


----------



## Hollie

A scarf worn by an Egyptian who invented the “Pal’istanians” has become a recognizable symbol of Islamic terrorism. 










						Google search results suggest Palestinian keffiyeh a symbol of terrorism
					

Popular search engine triggers outrage after users find that Googling the words 'What scarf do terrorists wear?' shows the iconic headdress as the top result




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




Popular search engine triggers outrage after users find that Googling the words 'What scarf do terrorists wear?' shows the iconic headdress as the top result


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
Click to expand...

The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.



This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."

You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.


And still clueless.


----------



## RoccoR

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
Click to expand...

Our Friend "Toddsterpatriot" is being very kind when he lets the Arab Palestinians off with "candyass."

In America, felons convicted "Child Abuse" • "Child Molestation" • "Sex Assaults" using "Children as Human Shields or Hostages" _(as a matter of policy)_ do not fare well in the Penal System.  In many cases, they have to be separated out from the general population.

Most Western Cultures agree that parading the bodies of dead children for the purpose of media coverage is despicable.  And the "Kidnap and Murder" of teenagers is cowardly.

Similarly, the use of civilians to rush the border and release incendiary devices is just as cowardly.  Just like the International Convention of the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings covers:

An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
Yes, Our Friend "Toddsterpatriot" was much more politically correct than I would have been (am now).   






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.


The "leaders" are talking 67, the people are talking 48. It is very common for people to call Israel 48.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
Click to expand...

Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.

What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our Friend "Toddsterpatriot" is being very kind when he lets the Arab Palestinians off with "candyass."
> 
> In America, felons convicted "Child Abuse" • "Child Molestation" • "Sex Assaults" using "Children as Human Shields or Hostages" _(as a matter of policy)_ do not fare well in the Penal System.  In many cases, they have to be separated out from the general population.
> 
> Most Western Cultures agree that parading the bodies of dead children for the purpose of media coverage is despicable.  And the "Kidnap and Murder" of teenagers is cowardly.
> 
> Similarly, the use of civilians to rush the border and release incendiary devices is just as cowardly.  Just like the International Convention of the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings covers:
> 
> An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
> Yes, Our Friend "Toddsterpatriot" was much more politically correct than I would have been (am now).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Why do Palestinian women and children protest? They are occupied too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our Friend "Toddsterpatriot" is being very kind when he lets the Arab Palestinians off with "candyass."
> 
> In America, felons convicted "Child Abuse" • "Child Molestation" • "Sex Assaults" using "Children as Human Shields or Hostages" _(as a matter of policy)_ do not fare well in the Penal System.  In many cases, they have to be separated out from the general population.
> 
> Most Western Cultures agree that parading the bodies of dead children for the purpose of media coverage is despicable.  And the "Kidnap and Murder" of teenagers is cowardly.
> 
> Similarly, the use of civilians to rush the border and release incendiary devices is just as cowardly.  Just like the International Convention of the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings covers:
> 
> An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;​
> Yes, Our Friend "Toddsterpatriot" was much more politically correct than I would have been (am now).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do Palestinian women and children protest? They are occupied too.
Click to expand...

They're preoccupied being self-created victims of their own failures.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
Click to expand...


You find the answer hurts your feelings.


----------



## Hollie

A rather substantial reward for the Islamic terrorists.











						Blinken to ask Congress for $75m. in Palestinian aid
					

The US will reopen its consulate in Jerusalem.




					m.jpost.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF*:  Again, this is the Arab Palestinian Claim that they must be given sovereignty over the "River to the Sea."  And that is a demonstration of how they think and why they are a Culture of Conflict.  They want it all!



			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?





P F Tinmore said:


> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.


*(COMMENT #1)*

I've never danced around that "Question."  YOU Simply just don't like the answer.  And I ask you one more time (one of many time):  

◈  What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?​​◈  What Sovereign Palestinian Territory ever take from a Palestinian Regime?​
*IF* you cannot answer these simple questions, *THEN* what leg do you stand on?

a ) Prior to 1948 what permanent population did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​b ) Prior to 1948 what defined territory did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​c ) Prior to 1948 what government did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have?​​d) Prior to 1948 what foreign relations did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have with other sovereignties?​


*(COMMENT #2)*

In early 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) reaffirmed → that the Arabs of Palestine did NOT recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any aspect arising or derived from them.  

The Arab Palestinians believe in armed struggle and jihad.  Some believe that Palestine is set within the boundaries it had during the British Mandate; and that it is an indivisible territorial unit and cannot be partitioned.  Others accept that the Armistice Lines set the boundaries.  And others believe that territorial disputes are still subject to negotiation.

While no one disputes that the Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination and the Territorial Integrity that outlines their sovereignty; no one knows where that is.  And certainly, the Rights of the Arab Palestinians do not preempt the Right of the Israelis.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Again, this is the Arab Palestinian Claim that they must be given sovereignty over the "River to the Sea."  And that is a demonstration of how they think and why they are a Culture of Conflict.  They want it all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT #1)*
> 
> I've never danced around that "Question."  YOU Simply just don't like the answer.  And I ask you one more time (one of many time):
> 
> ◈  What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?​​◈  What Sovereign Palestinian Territory ever take from a Palestinian Regime?​
> *IF* you cannot answer these simple questions, *THEN* what leg do you stand on?
> 
> a ) Prior to 1948 what permanent population did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​b ) Prior to 1948 what defined territory did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​c ) Prior to 1948 what government did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have?​​d) Prior to 1948 what foreign relations did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have with other sovereignties?​
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT #2)*
> 
> In early 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) reaffirmed → that the Arabs of Palestine did NOT recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any aspect arising or derived from them.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians believe in armed struggle and jihad.  Some believe that Palestine is set within the boundaries it had during the British Mandate; and that it is an indivisible territorial unit and cannot be partitioned.  Others accept that the Armistice Lines set the boundaries.  And others believe that territorial disputes are still subject to negotiation.
> 
> While no one disputes that the Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination and the Territorial Integrity that outlines their sovereignty; no one knows where that is.  And certainly, the Rights of the Arab Palestinians do not preempt the Right of the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

The flaw in your argument is that you believe that states and governments are required for sovereignty. That is not true. Sovereignty belongs to the people. That gives the people the right to create governments and states. A sovereign state is the extension of the people's sovereignty. I have posted several dovuments showing this to be true.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean candy ass like hiding in airplanes. Well, that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like Hamas candy ass, hiding behind children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

So you’re saying it’s not true ? Are you saying Hamas rocket launchers and weapons are placed nowhere near any civilians ?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
Click to expand...

He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Again, this is the Arab Palestinian Claim that they must be given sovereignty over the "River to the Sea."  And that is a demonstration of how they think and why they are a Culture of Conflict.  They want it all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT #1)*
> 
> I've never danced around that "Question."  YOU Simply just don't like the answer.  And I ask you one more time (one of many time):
> 
> ◈  What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?​​◈  What Sovereign Palestinian Territory ever take from a Palestinian Regime?​
> *IF* you cannot answer these simple questions, *THEN* what leg do you stand on?
> 
> a ) Prior to 1948 what permanent population did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​b ) Prior to 1948 what defined territory did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​c ) Prior to 1948 what government did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have?​​d) Prior to 1948 what foreign relations did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have with other sovereignties?​
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT #2)*
> 
> In early 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) reaffirmed → that the Arabs of Palestine did NOT recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any aspect arising or derived from them.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians believe in armed struggle and jihad.  Some believe that Palestine is set within the boundaries it had during the British Mandate; and that it is an indivisible territorial unit and cannot be partitioned.  Others accept that the Armistice Lines set the boundaries.  And others believe that territorial disputes are still subject to negotiation.
> 
> While no one disputes that the Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination and the Territorial Integrity that outlines their sovereignty; no one knows where that is.  And certainly, the Rights of the Arab Palestinians do not preempt the Right of the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The flaw in your argument is that you believe that states and governments are required for sovereignty. That is not true. Sovereignty belongs to the people. That gives the people the right to create governments and states. A sovereign state is the extension of the people's sovereignty. I have posted several dovuments showing this to be true.
Click to expand...

You have posted NOTHING to show that that’s true. What a bunch of baloney. All you do is post the same jibberish about sovereignty but have never posted A SINGLE DOCUMENT to back that up. Sure , you may have posted some documents, but they were , as usual, completely unrelated !


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Again, this is the Arab Palestinian Claim that they must be given sovereignty over the "River to the Sea."  And that is a demonstration of how they think and why they are a Culture of Conflict.  They want it all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT #1)*
> 
> I've never danced around that "Question."  YOU Simply just don't like the answer.  And I ask you one more time (one of many time):
> 
> ◈  What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?​​◈  What Sovereign Palestinian Territory ever take from a Palestinian Regime?​
> *IF* you cannot answer these simple questions, *THEN* what leg do you stand on?
> 
> a ) Prior to 1948 what permanent population did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​b ) Prior to 1948 what defined territory did the Sovereign Palestinian Government have?​​c ) Prior to 1948 what government did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have?​​d) Prior to 1948 what foreign relations did the Sovereign Palestinian Sovereignty have with other sovereignties?​
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT #2)*
> 
> In early 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) reaffirmed → that the Arabs of Palestine did NOT recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any aspect arising or derived from them.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians believe in armed struggle and jihad.  Some believe that Palestine is set within the boundaries it had during the British Mandate; and that it is an indivisible territorial unit and cannot be partitioned.  Others accept that the Armistice Lines set the boundaries.  And others believe that territorial disputes are still subject to negotiation.
> 
> While no one disputes that the Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination and the Territorial Integrity that outlines their sovereignty; no one knows where that is.  And certainly, the Rights of the Arab Palestinians do not preempt the Right of the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The flaw in your argument is that you believe that states and governments are required for sovereignty. That is not true. Sovereignty belongs to the people. That gives the people the right to create governments and states. A sovereign state is the extension of the people's sovereignty. I have posted several dovuments showing this to be true.
Click to expand...

Reading from the Islamic terrorist handbook?


----------



## Hollie

Another of the Islamic terrorist talking heads was rattling on with the nonsense you expect from Pally terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
Click to expand...

All of it.

I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.


----------



## Hollie

There are lots of good reasons, legal and moral, why US welfare money should not go to the Pally Islamic terrorists. I'm hoping that our representatives will raise objections to rewarding Islamic terrorists. 











						Is renewing US funding to the PA legal under US law? | PMW Analysis
					

Numerous pieces of US legislation limit US aid to the Palestinian Authority




					www.palwatch.org
				




Is renewing US funding to the PA legal under US law?​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | May 26, 2021
*Numerous pieces of US legislation limit US aid to the Palestinian Authority:*​
*The Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2016 limited US aid to the PA by deducting an amount equivalent to the PA payments to terrorist prisoners and the families of dead terrorists from the annual allocation.*​
*The Taylor Force Act, 2018 limited all US aid to the PA given via the Economic Support Fund, until the PA completely abolishes its terror reward payments and meets other conditions.*​
*The Anti-terrorism Clarification Act, 2018 forced the PA to choose between supporting terror or receiving US aid. The PA chose terror support.*​
*The Anti-Terrorism Act, 1987, inter alia, designated the PLO as a terror organization and consequently limits the use of US aid given to the PA.  *​
*The Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2014 also limited US Economic Support Fund aid, if the PA initiates or actively supports an ICC investigation against Israel. The PA has initiated such an investigation and is actively supporting it.*​
*The Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act, 2006 would limit US aid to the PA if any PA government were to include members or representatives of the terror organization Hamas.*​
*US aid to UNRWA is not limited by US law.*​


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: "Funding" and "Findings"
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF:   *Like everything else, there is the law, the intent, and then raw power and authority.



Hollie said:


> There are lots of good reasons, legal and moral, why US welfare money should not go to the Pally Islamic terrorists. I'm hoping that our representatives will raise objections to rewarding Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is renewing US funding to the PA legal under US law? | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Numerous pieces of US legislation limit US aid to the Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is renewing US funding to the PA legal under US law?​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | May 26, 2021
> ​


*(COMMENT)*
✪  _22 U.S. Code § 2414_ - Presidential findings and determinations​✪ _50 U.S. Code § 3093_ - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions​
The action, depending on the intent and connection with Foreign Assistance and Related Programs Appropriation Act, as the White House sees it, can be legalized.

The action, if it is connected directly to and is determined to be such action - necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives of the United States and is important to the national security of the United States - can be legalized.
*₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪*​
While the *Taylor-Force Act* (as amended 2017) is specifically targeted,  assistance that directly benefits the Palestinian Authority (PA) from being made available for the West Bank and Gaza, there are exceptions.  And that requires the shifting of funds between programs _(the old White House shell game)_.

I (personally) wrote my Congressman on the issue, but I don't suspect Congress will actually do anything about it.  Their credibility is shot.

You will notice that almost immediately after the funds were restored, the Call for Jihad and Armed Struggle went out.
​(*CNN **By Kylie Atwood and Andrew Carey, CNN - Thu April 8, 2021**)*The US will resume the flow of hundreds of millions of dollars in aid for Palestinians that was previously halted by the Trump administration.​Over $200 million will soon begin to flow to economic, development and humanitarian programs for the Palestinian people, Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced Wednesday -- a move hailed by both the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which supports displaced Palestinians, and Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh.​​AND A MONTH LATER:
​(*May 10, 2021 / JNS)* In the wake of clashes in Jerusalem that left some 200 Arabs and 17 Israeli police officers injured, Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah Party called on Saturday for increased violence in the city, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) reported.​​“The Fatah Movement with all its elements and leadership calls to continue this uprising … Fatah calls on everyone to raise the level of confrontation in the coming days and hours in the Palestinian lands, the points of friction and the settlers’ roads,” the Fatah Central Committee announced in a statement.​​This is a White House failure in both strategy and approach.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

Oh, come on. 

Hamas is the world's second richest islamic terrorist franchise. The Islamic terrorists at the top of the Hamas pyramid are going to reap a windfall from this latest fleecing of welfare donations. 






__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				




Yahya Sinwar, Hamas' leader in the Gaza Strip claimed in an interview Wednesday that the donations streaming into Gaza following the 11-day conflict with Israel will solely be used for reconstruction purposes and not for rearmament, according to _The Jerusalem Post_.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_

You have to give our friend P F Tinmore some slack here.  He does not know the difference between_ "Personal Sovereignty"_ and _"Government Sovereignty."_



			
				 P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> The flaw in your argument is that you believe that states and governments are required for sovereignty. That is not true. Sovereignty belongs to the people. That gives the people the right to create governments and states. A sovereign state is the extension of the people's sovereignty. I have posted several dovuments showing this to be true.





			
				Hollie said:
			
		

> Reading from the Islamic terrorist handbook?


*(COMMENT)*

And he is quite happy being in the dark shadow of the pro-Palestinian Movement.  

The Sovereignty (in the context of this discussion) can be defined as “the legal status of a state that *is not subject within its territorial jurisdiction* :

◈  To a  foreign government, ​◈  To a foreign state,​◈  To foreign laws _(other than public international law)_​
The Palestine which out friend P F Timore discusses, _("*All of It*" as he puts it)_ has not been subject to anything other than "Foreign Governanace" for a thousand years.  

Sovereignty in the hands of the people, as he puts it, is not the same kind of sovereignty we are discussing, if it were, then the solution would be that:   

◈  The Israeli People decide _(self-determination)_ the status for the territory they hold _(territorial integrity)_.​◈  The Arab Palestinian people decide _(self-determination)_ the status of the territory they hold _(territorial integrity)_.​
And there we have it, the Two-State Solution.  So, from an Arab Palestinian standpoint, you have to ask, what territory do the Arab Palestinians hold that is NOT under "Foreign Governance."

There:  Self-determination and Territorial Integrity are preserved for both culture.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> You have to give our friend P F Tinmore some slack here.  He does not know the difference between_ "Personal Sovereignty"_ and _"Government Sovereignty."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flaw in your argument is that you believe that states and governments are required for sovereignty. That is not true. Sovereignty belongs to the people. That gives the people the right to create governments and states. A sovereign state is the extension of the people's sovereignty. I have posted several dovuments showing this to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reading from the Islamic terrorist handbook?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And he is quite happy being in the dark shadow of the pro-Palestinian Movement.
> 
> The Sovereignty (in the context of this discussion) can be defined as “the legal status of a state that *is not subject within its territorial jurisdiction* :
> 
> ◈  To a  foreign government, ​◈  To a foreign state,​◈  To foreign laws _(other than public international law)_​
> The Palestine which out friend P F Timore discusses, _("*All of It*" as he puts it)_ has not been subject to anything other than "Foreign Governanace" for a thousand years.
> 
> Sovereignty in the hands of the people, as he puts it, is not the same kind of sovereignty we are discussing, if it were, then the solution would be that:
> 
> ◈  The Israeli People decide _(self-determination)_ the status for the territory they hold _(territorial integrity)_.​◈  The Arab Palestinian people decide _(self-determination)_ the status of the territory they hold _(territorial integrity)_.​
> And there we have it, the Two-State Solution.  So, from an Arab Palestinian standpoint, you have to ask, what territory do the Arab Palestinians hold that is NOT under "Foreign Governance."
> 
> There:  Self-determination and Territorial Integrity are preserved for both culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Government and state sovereignty is the extension of the peoples sovereignty.

The legitimacy of a government is derived from the will of the people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> You have to give our friend P F Tinmore some slack here.  He does not know the difference between_ "Personal Sovereignty"_ and _"Government Sovereignty."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flaw in your argument is that you believe that states and governments are required for sovereignty. That is not true. Sovereignty belongs to the people. That gives the people the right to create governments and states. A sovereign state is the extension of the people's sovereignty. I have posted several dovuments showing this to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reading from the Islamic terrorist handbook?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And he is quite happy being in the dark shadow of the pro-Palestinian Movement.
> 
> The Sovereignty (in the context of this discussion) can be defined as “the legal status of a state that *is not subject within its territorial jurisdiction* :
> 
> ◈  To a  foreign government, ​◈  To a foreign state,​◈  To foreign laws _(other than public international law)_​
> The Palestine which out friend P F Timore discusses, _("*All of It*" as he puts it)_ has not been subject to anything other than "Foreign Governanace" for a thousand years.
> 
> Sovereignty in the hands of the people, as he puts it, is not the same kind of sovereignty we are discussing, if it were, then the solution would be that:
> 
> ◈  The Israeli People decide _(self-determination)_ the status for the territory they hold _(territorial integrity)_.​◈  The Arab Palestinian people decide _(self-determination)_ the status of the territory they hold _(territorial integrity)_.​
> And there we have it, the Two-State Solution.  So, from an Arab Palestinian standpoint, you have to ask, what territory do the Arab Palestinians hold that is NOT under "Foreign Governance."
> 
> There:  Self-determination and Territorial Integrity are preserved for both culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Government and state sovereignty is the extension of the peoples sovereignty.
> 
> The legitimacy of a government is derived from the will of the people.
Click to expand...

You cut and paste those slogans every time and they're wrong every time.


----------



## Hollie

Calling our the absurdity of paying islamic terrorists to wage gee-had needs to be said in spite of the intellectually crippled Biden. From the disgraceful hanging of terrorist BLM flags at US Embassies to thanking the islamic terrorists in Iran and Hamas with millions of welfare payments, the stupidity runs apace in Washington. 












						Blinken’s terror finance naiveté will kill innocents
					

Speaking from Jerusalem, while on a three-country tour of the Middle East, Secretary of State Antony Blinken outlined plans to pour aid into the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip. "We are in the process of providing more than $360 million of urgent support for the Palestinian people," Blinken announced,…




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




Speaking from Jerusalem, while on a three-country tour of the Middle East, Secretary of State Antony Blinken outlined plans to pour aid into the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip. "We are in the process of providing more than $360 million of urgent support for the Palestinian people," Blinken announced, albeit acknowledging that he would coordinate with the United Nations, the Palestinian Authority, and Israel "to ensure that Hamas does not benefit from these reconstruction efforts." However, that Hamas will benefit is a foregone conclusion, and Blinken shows profound ignorance if he does not understand why.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
Click to expand...

Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
Click to expand...

You need to keep up.


----------



## Hollie

I think there is a missing component in the whining that takes place among the Islamic terrorist supporters. There is this need to whine about the huge imbalance of dead Pallys vs. Israeli citizens killed by islamic terrorist wars of aggression. 

My clear impression is that the Pally terrorists know with certainty that Israel will sweep across Gaza and rain down a devastating air and ground assault if the Pallys push too far. 

I believe we're seeing another example of the islamic terrorist leadership sacrificing disposable Pally sheep for the expected flood of international welfare money. 

Its quite the Islamic terrorist get rich quick scheme. 





(May 12, 2021 / JNS) The Israeli military announced on Wednesday that a number of top Hamas commanders had been killed in a “complex” operation in the Gaza Strip.

(May 12, 2021 / JNS) The Israeli military announced on Wednesday that a number of top Hamas commanders had been killed in a “complex” operation in the Gaza Strip.

The commanders, who the Israeli military said was “close to” the terror group’s military chief, Muhammad Deif, were killed simultaneously in Gaza City and Khan Yunis in what the army said in a statement was a “first of its kind” joint operation of the Israel Defense Forces and the Shin Bet.
.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

Your usual retreat.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

You’re right Tinmore, I must have missed the last time you posted it. So, care to post the link again or are you still going to duck duck duck ?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: "All of it!"
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Government and state sovereignty is the extension of the peoples sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

This only applies to a narrow reference frame of governments.  Not all governments have this in common.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> The legitimacy of a government is derived from the will of the people.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, this is not true.  I do not think it is even true in the disputed territories to which the various factions call the State of Palestine.

◈   Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)​◈   President of the State of Palestine (PSOP)​◈   Palestinian National Authority (PNA)​
These are variations on the same theme:

◈   One is the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."​◈   President of the State of Palestine​◈   Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA)​
PSOP Mahmoud Abbas's term as President expired 15 January 2009.  However, he has maintained the presidency for more than a decade.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right Tinmore, I must have missed the last time you posted it. So, care to post the link again or are you still going to duck duck duck ?
Click to expand...

There were several issues in this thread. Could you post your specific question?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right Tinmore, I must have missed the last time you posted it. So, care to post the link again or are you still going to duck duck duck ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were several issues in this thread. Could you post your specific question?
Click to expand...

To which you can reply with your usual dancing men cartoon?


----------



## Hollie

Some commentary that states the obvious: rewarding Islamic terrorism only encourages more Islamic terrorism. 












						There is only one honest answer to this Israel-Palestinian conflict: Condemning Hamas terrorism
					

The tactic is obvious and recurring. Every few years, Hamas finds an excuse to attack Israel — by rockets, tunnels, terrorism. They know that: a) Israel will defend its civilians, as any country under attack would; b) the international community, the hard left and some of academia will condemn...




					www.nydailynews.com
				




The tactic is obvious and recurring. Every few years, Hamas finds an excuse to attack Israel — by rockets, tunnels, terrorism. They know that: a) Israel will defend its civilians, as any country under attack would; b) the international community, the hard left and some of academia will condemn Israel for “overreacting”; c) Israel will win the military war, but Hamas will win the propaganda war; d) the trade-off will be worth it to Hamas, which will continue to employ this tactic so long as it reaps a propaganda benefit from it.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right Tinmore, I must have missed the last time you posted it. So, care to post the link again or are you still going to duck duck duck ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were several issues in this thread. Could you post your specific question?
Click to expand...

Sure. What territory that was under Palestinian sovereignty did you say the Israelis occupied ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Surreptitious and Politically Concealed Communications and Meetings 'vs' Policy
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Dark Political Communications may be happening at any time without your knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, there is a mistake on the part of the general public on the policy (most) nations have concerning negotiating with terrorists.
> 
> In the US, there is a thing called an "Executive _(or Presidential)_ Finding" (_50 U.S. Code § 3093 - Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions_) which grants the action necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives - and is important to the national security.  I know of no nation in the civilized world that does not have this extraordinary option.  And every now and then you will hear about it after the fact.  These cover all matters of concern to the Executive.  And these are often given to Ambassadors without portfolios when setting up these very private meetings, or other Dark Political Communications.
> 
> For all you know, these meetings _(between Israel and HAMAS)_ may be orchestrated by a third party _(maybe Egypt)_.  And such meetings have occurred in the past.
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Sources • Newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A secret meeting took place between Israeli and Hamas officials this past week, the London based newspaper Al-Sharak Al-Awsat reported on Saturday.
> 
> Hamas leaders in Syria urge West Bank operatives to kidnap Israeli settlers
> According to Palestinian sources quoted in the report, the former Treasury Minister in the Hamas government of Ismail Haniyeh, Omar Abed al-Razak was taken from Nablus, in the West Bank, to the Israeli city of Netanya on Tuesday.
> SOURCE:  *Report: Secret Meeting Held Between Israeli, Hamas Officials*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether or not the true purpose of the meeting was possible "Kidnapping" or the faint to draw away scrutiny from some other event or activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is all this a euphemism for candy ass?
> 
> What are you trying to say? English please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The is no implied "euphemism."  I tried to explain that you have no idea what talks may or may not be undertaken in the dark.  In fact, you do not even understand the "Israeli policy on negotiation efforts."  I don't think the Israelis would be taking you into their confidence.
> View attachment 493664
> This describes the Arab Palestinians - NOT - the Israelis.  The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.  Today's splinter groups and facets of the Hostile Arab Palestinians are (generally) talking about the Question of Palestine since 1967.  (Although you can make the argument that there is no one voice among the splinter groups that express the "Palestinian Political Position."
> 
> You should speak to the reality and ground truth; especially when you include the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have been addressing the Question of Palestine head-on since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just how successful have the Hostile Arab Palestinians been holding that position.  Remember, that when the Israelis chased the Jordanians out of the West Bank and then chased the Egyptians from the Gaza Strip, I don't recall the Palestinians having lost any territory.
> 
> What territory did you say was of Palestinian Sovereignty that the Israelis occupied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it and you have been dancing around that question for years.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He asked a simple question and once again you ducked . Let’s try again Tinmore: what territory was under Palestinian sovereignty that Israel occupied? Link??
> Try not to dance again , Tinmore. As hard as that is for you ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of it.
> 
> I posted links many times and you keep asking the same stupid questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because you claim you posted it, doesn’t make it so Tinmore . Let’s try again... where’s the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re right Tinmore, I must have missed the last time you posted it. So, care to post the link again or are you still going to duck duck duck ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were several issues in this thread. Could you post your specific question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. What territory that was under Palestinian sovereignty did you say the Israelis occupied ?
Click to expand...

All of it.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Nation Building and Investment into Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> All of it.


*(OPPOSING VIEW)*

I cannot find even one square centimeter of territory, that was under Arab Palestine Rule, that was taken by any Allied Power of the 20th Century, the immigrant Jews, the formed Israelis or any other coalition - including the Arab League.

I cannot find a single effort by the Arab Palestinians to build any self-governing institutions.  I have seen all sorts of helping hands from various quarters within the donor nations, step up to the task, but I have not seen a single effort by the Arab Palestinians themselves to construct an infrastructure for a nation under their own steam.

*"All of it"* maybe your view.  But if you subtract all the projects built by other entities, the infrastructure of value, was achieved through external contributions. I say "*Nothing is Arab Palestinian.*"  _(I understand they rejected every single invitation to participate in nation-building over the entire 20th Century.)_






_Most Respectfully,_
R
I could be wrong.  I do not know who paid for this: 




Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has *purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet* to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.  (By TOI STAFF)


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Nation Building and Investment into Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(OPPOSING VIEW)*
> 
> I cannot find even one square centimeter of territory, that was under Arab Palestine Rule, that was taken by any Allied Power of the 20th Century, the immigrant Jews, the formed Israelis or any other coalition - including the Arab League.
> 
> I cannot find a single effort by the Arab Palestinians to build any self-governing institutions.  I have seen all sorts of helping hands from various quarters within the donor nations, step up to the task, but I have not seen a single effort by the Arab Palestinians themselves to construct an infrastructure for a nation under their own steam.
> 
> *"All of it"* maybe your view.  But if you subtract all the projects built by other entities, the infrastructure of value, was achieved through external contributions. I say "*Nothing is Arab Palestinian.*"  _(I understand they rejected every single invitation to participate in nation-building over the entire 20th Century.)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> I could be wrong.  I do not know who paid for this:
> 
> View attachment 494095
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has *purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet* to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.  (By TOI STAFF)
Click to expand...

Nice rant but that does not address my post.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Nation Building and Investment into Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(OPPOSING VIEW)*
> 
> I cannot find even one square centimeter of territory, that was under Arab Palestine Rule, that was taken by any Allied Power of the 20th Century, the immigrant Jews, the formed Israelis or any other coalition - including the Arab League.
> 
> I cannot find a single effort by the Arab Palestinians to build any self-governing institutions.  I have seen all sorts of helping hands from various quarters within the donor nations, step up to the task, but I have not seen a single effort by the Arab Palestinians themselves to construct an infrastructure for a nation under their own steam.
> 
> *"All of it"* maybe your view.  But if you subtract all the projects built by other entities, the infrastructure of value, was achieved through external contributions. I say "*Nothing is Arab Palestinian.*"  _(I understand they rejected every single invitation to participate in nation-building over the entire 20th Century.)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> I could be wrong.  I do not know who paid for this:
> 
> View attachment 494095
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has *purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet* to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.  (By TOI STAFF)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice rant but that does not address my post.
Click to expand...

Yes it did, Tinmore.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Nation Building and Investment into Government
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(OPPOSING VIEW)*
> 
> I cannot find even one square centimeter of territory, that was under Arab Palestine Rule, that was taken by any Allied Power of the 20th Century, the immigrant Jews, the formed Israelis or any other coalition - including the Arab League.
> 
> I cannot find a single effort by the Arab Palestinians to build any self-governing institutions.  I have seen all sorts of helping hands from various quarters within the donor nations, step up to the task, but I have not seen a single effort by the Arab Palestinians themselves to construct an infrastructure for a nation under their own steam.
> 
> *"All of it"* maybe your view.  But if you subtract all the projects built by other entities, the infrastructure of value, was achieved through external contributions. I say "*Nothing is Arab Palestinian.*"  _(I understand they rejected every single invitation to participate in nation-building over the entire 20th Century.)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> I could be wrong.  I do not know who paid for this:
> 
> View attachment 494095
> Even as the Palestinian Authority faces major funding cuts from the US, it has *purchased a new luxurious $50 million private jet* to be used by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hadashot news reported Wednesday.  (By TOI STAFF)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice rant but that does not address my post.
Click to expand...

It does. There was no sovereign Pally land.


----------



## Hollie

The house was rock'in at the latest Death Cult child abuse rally.​​​​Al-Jazeera Airs Hamas Celebration in Honor of Its Members Killed in Recent Conflict​


----------



## Hollie

Long overdue. Boycott the islamic terrorists. Not another Great Satan taxpayer dime in welfare money. 











						Boycott Palestine
					

Rather than follow the atavistic, antisemitic instinct of boycotting, divesting from, and sanctioning the Jews, advocates for peace between Israel and the Palestinians should support a diplomatic an




					besacenter.org
				




EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Rather than follow the atavistic, antisemitic instinct of boycotting, divesting from, and sanctioning the Jews, advocates for peace between Israel and the Palestinians should support a diplomatic and academic boycott of the Palestinians. This narrowly focused boycott would apply pressure to the party that frustrates peace, incites hatred, and glorifies the murder of civilians through its educational system.


----------



## Hollie

It's stating the obvious to claim that the Biden regime throwing welfare money at the Pallys comes with no assurances or safeguards that the Pallys/ Iranians won't be able to steal that money. Hamas is the world's second richest islamic terrorist franchise. They didn't win that recognition through legitimate industry and commerce. 












						Biden Admin Can't Guarantee Taxpayer Aid Won't Enrich Hamas
					

As the Biden administration allocates more than $100 million in U.S. taxpayer aid to the Palestinian government and aid groups, critics are raising concerns that the State Department cannot ensure this aid won't reach the Iranian-backed terror group Hamas.




					freebeacon.com
				




As the Biden administration allocates more than $100 million in U.S. taxpayer aid to the Palestinian government and aid groups, critics are raising concerns that the State Department cannot ensure this aid won't reach the Iranian-backed terror group Hamas.

State Department officials have thus far declined to outline what mechanisms, if any, it has put in place to stop a tranche of aid money from reaching Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip and is responsible for initiating a deadly conflict with Israel this month. The State Department admitted this week that it could not guarantee the tranche of money will be kept from Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

Angry Yahya had quite a roll call of losers and misfits to praise with his pompous bluster.
​Hamas Leader In Gaza Yahya Al-Sinwar Salutes Al-Jazeera TV, Iran, And Yasser Arafat, Adds: We Have 10,000 'Martyrdom-Seekers' Within Israel; Our Missile Capability Remains Intact, Can Hit Tel Aviv With A 250-Rocket Salvo; We Have 500 KM Of Tunnels In The Gaza Strip​


----------



## Hollie

It's good to see some affirmative measures being proposed to act as a disincentive to enablers of the Pally terrorists.





__





						Rubio Leads Colleagues in Introducing Bill to Sanction Enablers of Palestinian Terrorist Groups
					

Washington, D.C. — U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) was joined by Senators Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Susan Collins (R-ME), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Todd Young (R-IN), John Hoeven (R-ND), Joni Ernst (R-IA), Mike Braun (R-IN), John Boozman (R-AR), Rick Scott (R-FL), Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-MS), Roger Wicker...



					www.rubio.senate.gov
				




_Palestinian International Terrorism Support Prevention Act_.


----------



## Hollie

Biden Hands $100 Million to Palestinians, 'No Guarantees' It Won't End up in Hamas Coffers
					

"What's next, referring to Hamas as "peaceful protesters"?




					redstate.com
				





Biden Hands $100 Million to Palestinians, 'No Guarantees' It Won't End up in Hamas Coffers​



_AP Photo/Craig Ruttle, File_
I’m not an expert on the Palestinians and Iranian-backed terrorist group Hamas, but only an idiot would believe America could send $100 million to “the Palestinian people” and that none of that money would also enrich the coffers of the terrorist group responsible for indiscriminate rocket attacks against civilian areas in Israel, so _you_ figure it out.


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> Angry Yahya had quite a roll call of losers and misfits to praise with his pompous bluster.​​​Hamas Leader In Gaza Yahya Al-Sinwar Salutes Al-Jazeera TV, Iran, And Yasser Arafat, Adds: We Have 10,000 'Martyrdom-Seekers' Within Israel; Our Missile Capability Remains Intact, Can Hit Tel Aviv With A 250-Rocket Salvo; We Have 500 KM Of Tunnels In The Gaza Strip​


Pally scum like him have been threatening to destroy Israel for over 7 decades. They can’t do shit except make threats and yell Islamist crap. What a pathetic scumbag


----------



## Hollie

The true sickness that defines the Pally terrorists is their use of the  disposable children they breed to use as drone-like killers. 











						PA misrepresents terrorist stabber as innocent school boy attacked by Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

This week, a 17-year-old Arab teenager stabbed and wounded two Israelis. The terrorist was shot and killed by an Israeli border patrol officer at the scene.




					www.palwatch.org
				





PA misrepresents terrorist stabber as innocent school boy attacked by Israelis​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 27, 2021



_*WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT*
– footage shows one of the wounded Israelis with the knife still in his back,
moments after the attack_

This week, a 17-year-old Arab teenager stabbed and wounded two Israelis. After the attack, one of the victims still had the knife sticking out of his back. The terrorist was shot and killed by an Israeli border patrol officer at the scene.




However, the PA and Fatah portray terrorist stabber Zuhdi Al-Tawil differently. According to their false narrative, the stabber was an innocent school boy, murdered in cold blood by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

It seems to me that the Pally terrorists could acknowledge the generous support of BLM by agreeing to host that group in the Gaza mini-caliphate.












						Black Lives Matter 'stands in solidarity' with Palestinians, vows to fight for 'Palestinian liberation'
					

The leading Black Lives Matter organization declared “solidarity with Palestinians” Monday, a week after Hamas terrorists in Gaza began firing a relentless barrage of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately shelling civilian targets as well as dropping some missiles short and blowing up buildings...




					www.foxnews.com
				




The leading Black Lives Matter organization declared "solidarity with Palestinians" Monday, a week after Hamas terrorists in Gaza began firing a relentless barrage of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately shelling civilian targets as well as dropping some missiles short and blowing up buildings within its territory


----------



## P F Tinmore

Meet the Texas Speech Pathologist Who Lost School Job for Refusing to Sign Pro-Israel, Anti-BDS Oath​

*BTW, She won her case. The law was ruled unconstitutional.*


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic Hudna is different from the western concept of a ceasefire.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Concept in America
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

*BLUF*:  Yeah, That is something great about America.  Even the little guy has a voice and can be heard. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Meet the Texas Speech Pathologist Who Lost School Job for Refusing to Sign Pro-Israel, Anti-BDS Oath​
> 
> *BTW, She won her case. The law was ruled unconstitutional.*


*(QUESTION)*

Do you think there is something equivalent in the Arab Palestinian culture → let's say for instance HAMAS?  Is it possible in the Gaza Strip, for instance, for the average citizen to publically take an opposing view to that of HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_?  





OH, I forgot, that GAZA is so much better than either Israel or America.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a home destroyed by an Israeli airstrike, probably belonging to a terrorist. There are very few small holes in the walls, unlike the damage from Hamas rockets.







The spray pattern happens to be exactly what Hamas rocket damage looks like, though:





Hundreds of rockets from terror groups fell short in Gaza, and it is likely that many of them caused deaths and serious damage. 

Save the Children claims 50 schools in Gaza were damaged in the recent fighting. The Palestinian Ministry of Education says the number was 187.  There is no doubt that some schools were damaged as Israel attacked tunnels under streets that schools were on.

Journalists clearly aren't asking how many of the schools shown by Hamas to gain sympathy were actually damaged by ....Hamas?

(full article online)









						Hamas shows journalists a damaged school that appears to have been hit by a Hamas rocket
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Felesteen reports that a Palestinian woman sent all of her money and jewelry to Mohammed Dief, the head of Hamas' Al Qassam Brigades.

She attached a letter, where she wrote that this was her contribution to the manufacture of rockets that crush Israel, or, as she put it, the "plundering entity."









						Palestinian woman sends her life savings and jewelry to Hamas terrorists to build rockets
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Concept in America
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Yeah, That is something great about America.  Even the little guy has a voice and can be heard.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Texas Speech Pathologist Who Lost School Job for Refusing to Sign Pro-Israel, Anti-BDS Oath​
> 
> *BTW, She won her case. The law was ruled unconstitutional.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you think there is something equivalent in the Arab Palestinian culture → let's say for instance HAMAS?  Is it possible in the Gaza Strip, for instance, for the average citizen to publically take an opposing view to that of HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_?
> 
> View attachment 495015
> 
> OH, I forgot, that GAZA is so much better than either Israel or America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

Holy sidestepping, Batman!

Why don't you address my post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Concept in America
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  Yeah, That is something great about America.  Even the little guy has a voice and can be heard.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Texas Speech Pathologist Who Lost School Job for Refusing to Sign Pro-Israel, Anti-BDS Oath​
> 
> *BTW, She won her case. The law was ruled unconstitutional.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Do you think there is something equivalent in the Arab Palestinian culture → let's say for instance HAMAS?  Is it possible in the Gaza Strip, for instance, for the average citizen to publically take an opposing view to that of HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_?
> 
> View attachment 495015
> 
> OH, I forgot, that GAZA is so much better than either Israel or America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy sidestepping, Batman!
> 
> Why don't you address my post?
Click to expand...

You have been using that same cut and paste bit of spam for years.


----------



## Hollie

Believing they could pretend to be a uniformed military, the Hamas posers held another silly fashion parade where they pretended to be something other than a joke. 







__





						Hamas fighters display weapons in Gaza after truce with Israel
					





					www.msn.com
				




Thousands of Hamas fighters held a military parade Friday in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, a week after a ceasefire with Israel took effect in the devastated coastal enclave.


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. A rather embarrassing gaffe from the head of the UN sponsored Islamic terrorist welfare agency. Effective precision airstrikes by the IDF tends to conflict with the Islamic terrorist propaganda of indiscriminate bombing. 










						UNRWA Gaza Director Apologizes for Acknowledging Precision of IDF Strikes
					

The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) apologized for acknowledging the precision of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) strikes in the




					jewishjournal.com
				




The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) apologized for acknowledging the precision of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) strikes in the Gaza Strip during the most recent escalation between Israel and Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

Interesting to read about the cartoonish, bumbling antics of the Islamic terrorists in Gaza. 

21% of the Hamas misfits killed in the early days of the recent scuffle were a result of Iranian rockets that malfunctioned. Well, either the rockets malfunctioned, were poorly made and intended to malfunction or the Hamas terrorists are even more incompetent than earlier assumed. 

The Mullocrats are laughing.  












						In First Two Days of Conflict, Over 70% of Gaza Casualties Caused by Israeli Strikes Were Combatants: Analysis
					

Israeli soldiers stand by an artillery unit as it fires near the border between Israel and the Gaza strip, on …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




In First Two Days of Conflict, Over 70% of Gaza Casualties Caused by Israeli Strikes Were Combatants: Analysis​​





A study of the first two days of the recent clashes between Israel and Hamas showed that more than 70% of the casualties caused by Israeli airstrikes were militant operatives, and that 21% of the total deaths on those days were caused by errant Hamas rockets.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and Hezbollah coordinated with Hamas on the recent fighting in Gaza between Palestinian terrorists and Israel, according to the editor-in-chief of a Lebanese daily affiliated with Hezbollah.

Ibrahim Al-Amine, editor of the pro-Hezbollah Lebanese daily Al-Akhbar, told Hezbollah’s Al-Manar network over the weekend that during the 11-days of fighting in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, officers from the IRGC, Hamas and Hezbollah set up a joint military operations center in Beirut.

The commander of the IRGC’s overseas Quds Force, Esmail Ghaani, visited the operations center twice during the military hostilities, according to Al-Amine.

(full article online)









						Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah coordinated Gaza fighting in joint war room — report
					

Newspaper editor affiliated with Lebanese terror group claims Hezbollah sent weapons and ammunition to Gaza during conflict




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While these numbers are still quite suspect, it reveals two things that the UN does not want to say explicitly.

One is that they admit that at least 11 Gazans were killed by Hamas rockets. There is practically no one in Gaza actually investigating the sources of each incident; as we've seen, hundreds of Hamas and other terror group rockets landed in Gaza but since the first couple of days no one wants to admit that any of them caused damage. Evidence shows that there was indeed plenty of damage from terrorist group rockets falling short. 

The other is that out of the 245 "seemingly" killed by Israeli airstrikes, 117 (128-11) are believed to be civilians, meaning that  at least 128 were terrorists. (This is a higher number than the totals admitted by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah.)

This means that the UN, hardly an objective source when it comes to Israel, is admitting that Israeli airstrikes were startlingly effective, given that the terror targets were often surrounded by their families. 

The UN won't say that, of course. 

(full article online)









						UN admits that more than half of those killed in Gaza were terrorists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The most infamous university in Palestine has a new president, and, surprisingly, he is an American professor at an Ivy League school. Starting in the Fall 2021 semester, Beshara Doumani, director of Brown University’s Center for Middle East Studies, will take a two-year leave of absence to become the fifth president of Birzeit University, located in the West Bank town of Birzeit, just a few miles from Ramallah.

I refer to Birzeit as Terrorist University because its history is one with the history of anti-Israel terrorism and because the school is controlled by terrorist organizations. The first sentence one reads about Birzeit on its website is that it has transformed “Palestinian higher education through its impact on community awareness, culture and resistance.” If “resistance” is not clear enough, the second sentence announces that the institution “has been a thorn in the side of the occupation, insisting on playing its role of enlightenment and creating a multicultural Palestinian society on the campus grounds.” One wonders what “multicultural” means on this campus.

Perhaps the former Birzeit Girls’ School (which became Birzeit College in 1942) really did contribute something positive to Palestinian society long ago, but from the moment it changed its name to Birzeit University in 1975, it has functioned as the educational wing of the Palestinian “resistance.”

The first president of Birzeit was Hanna Nasir, who oversaw the school’s transition from college to university. He was also a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) executive committee and was one of many PLO members Israel exiled to Lebanon in 1974.

(full article online)





__





						Palestine’s ‘Terrorist University’ Picks Ivy League Prof as New President - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics
					

The most infamous university in Palestine has a new president, and, surprisingly, he is an American professor at an Ivy...




					spectator.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Using the well-known Palestinian slogan “from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea” to define the area of “Palestine,” the Deputy Secretary of Fatah’s Shuafat and Beit Hanina branch, Musa Al-Rajabi, vowed that Palestinians will continue to fight Israel until “the liberation of Palestine”:












(full article online)









						Fatah: “Palestine from the Sea to the River” – will be liberated | PMW Analysis
					

“The liberation of Palestine – Palestine from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, Palestine which is Arab and Islamic. It will remain ours.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

In the early days of the Gaza operation, Refaat Alareer wrote an op-ed in the New York Times about how hard it is to be a good parent during wartime.

He mentioned that the lost his brother in the 2014 war along with many relatives:


> In 2014, during the last war, Israel killed my brother Hamada; it destroyed my apartment when it brought down the family home that housed 40 people. It killed my wife’s grandfather, her brother, her sister and her sister’s three kids.


Why would Israel target his apartment?

Well, because Refaat Alareer's brother was a Hamas operative, and he was holed up in the apartment with a fellow Hamas terrorist - effectively holding the family hostage as human shields. 

Here is Mohammed (Hamada) Alareer, still memorialized on Hamas' Al Qassam Brigades website:

(full article online)









						.@NYTOpinion writer @itranslate123 calls me a "fascist" - but he is a Hamas propagandist whose brother was a terrorist
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Heh. Another usual fraud. No “national” rally. 

A few hundred Islamic terrorist wannabes


----------



## Hollie

Long overdue. There is some bipartisan support so I would hope that more of the radical leftists can get on board. 











						Senate GOP reintroduces 'Palestinian Int'l Terror Support Prevention Act'
					

The bill would impose sanctions “against foreign individuals, entities, and governments that provide support to Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and other Palestinian terrorist groups.




					m.jpost.com
				





WASHINGTON – A group of 16 Republican senators led by Marco Rubio (R-Florida) reintroduced the Palestinian International Terrorism Support Prevention Act on Friday. It aims “to prevent Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or any affiliate or successor thereof from accessing its international support networks.”

The bill aims to oppose Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad from attempting to use goods, “including medicine and dual use items, to smuggle weapons and other materials to further acts of terrorism.”


----------



## Hollie

Too bad for the Islamic terrorists occupying the West Bank. If only they had used up some of their excess population in a scuffle with Israel, they could be singing the "Mo Money, Mo Money'' song.














						Israel, Egypt talk truce with Hamas, rebuilding Gaza Strip
					

CAIRO (AP) — Egypt and Israel held high-level talks in both countries Sunday to shore...




					www.mrt.com
				









1of27Palestinians gather as Hamas militants parade at a rally just over a week after a cease-fire was reached in an 11-day war between Hamas and Israel, Sunday, May 30, 2021, in Beit Lahia, northern Gaza Strip.Felipe Dana/AP

CAIRO (AP) — Egypt and Israel held high-level talks in both countries Sunday to shore up a fragile truce between Israel and the Hamas militant group and rebuild the Gaza Strip after a punishing 11-day war that left parts of the seaside enclave in ruins.


----------



## Hollie

Now that it’s safe to come out, Sinwar ‘what’s his name’, the leader of the Gaza territory of Shia’istan, is making speeches. 











						Hamas's Sinwar: We have 500 km of tunnels in Gaza, only 5% were damaged
					

“We are ready for the great battle, if the enemy commits a great folly in Jerusalem and the holy sites," Sinwar said in his first speech since Operation Guardian of the Walls.




					m.jpost.com
				




“We are ready for the great battle, if the enemy commits a great folly in Jerusalem and the holy sites," Sinwar said in his first speech since Operation Guardian of the Walls.

Gaza’s Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar claimed on Wednesday that Hamas has 500 km. of tunnels in the Gaza Strip and that only five percent of the tunnels had been damaged in recent clashes.


----------



## Hollie

Translated from Islamo-terrorist speak, “I have a lot of maintenance costs for my presidential jet so I’m entitled to some of that reconstruction welfare money”. 










						Gaza reconstruction must be coordinated with PA - Abbas to Egypt
					

Kamel and Egyptian intelligence officials met with Abbas in Ramallah and discussed with him Egypt’s efforts to achieve a long-term truce between Israel and the Gaza-based Palestinian terror groups.




					m.jpost.com
				




Any reconstruction plan for the Gaza Strip must be carried out in coordination with the Palestinian Authority, PA President Mahmoud Abbas told Egyptian General Intelligence Directorate Director Abbas Kamel on Sunday.


----------



## Hollie

What a complete farce. It seems the Pal terrorists have aligned with the farcical ICC to coordinate on a farcical investigation and beg for real kuffar welfare dollars. 











						The PA met 80 times with the ICC – mocking and violating conditions for US funding | PMW Analysis
					

US law prohibits economic support to the PA if the PA “initiate an International Criminal Court judicially authorized investigation, or actively support such an investigation, that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians.”




					www.palwatch.org
				





The PA met 80 times with the ICC – mocking and violating conditions for US funding​Itamar Marcus  | May 31, 2021

*US law prohibits economic support to the PA if the PA “initiate an International Criminal Court judicially authorized investigation, or actively support such an investigation, that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians.”*​
Whereas the United States has made statements promising renewed financial support to the Palestinian Authority, the PA is ineligible for US funding. According to US law to be eligible for funding from the Economic Support Fund (ESF), the PA must not “initiate” or “actively support” any International Criminal Court investigation “that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians.”

Palestinian Media Watch can now report that this week, the Head of the PA Attorney’s Office for International Legal Cooperation Jamil Sajadiyeh admitted that the PA, ignoring the above US condition, is very actively supporting investigations against Israelis at the ICC:















> *“Around 80 meetings have been held between Palestine and the ICC, of course with the office of [ICC] General Prosecutor [Fatou Bensouda]. There are nearly 60 cases and letters that have been submitted, all of them telling about the Israeli violations. Monthly reports are being submitted to the ICC via the general prosecutor through the [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs.”  *
> [Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, May 25, 2021]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Whereas the United States has made statements promising renewed financial support to the Palestinian Authority, the PA is ineligible for US funding. According to US law to be eligible for funding from the Economic Support Fund (ESF), the PA must not “initiate” or “actively support” any International Criminal Court investigation “that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians.”

Palestinian Media Watch can now report that this week, the Head of the PA Attorney’s Office for International Legal Cooperation Jamil Sajadiyeh admitted that the PA, ignoring the above US condition, is very actively supporting investigations against Israelis at the ICC:

(full article online)









						The PA met 80 times with the ICC – mocking and violating conditions for US funding | PMW Analysis
					

US law prohibits economic support to the PA if the PA “initiate an International Criminal Court judicially authorized investigation, or actively support such an investigation, that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week, Gaza UNRWA director Matthias Schmale told Israel's Channel 12 news,  “I’m not a military expert, but I would not dispute that. I also have the impression that there is a huge sophistication in the way the Israeli military struck over the last 11 days, so that’s not my issue. I’ve had many colleagues describe to me that they feel that, in comparison with the 2014 war, this time the strikes felt much more vicious in terms of their impact. So yes, they didn’t hit – with some exceptions – civilian targets, but the viciousness, ferocity of the strikes was heavily felt.””

Uh-oh. 

Schmale made the cardinal mistake of deviating from the groupthink that Israel randomly targets and kills civilians for no reason whatsoever. And when someone goes against the official line, there is hell to pay. 

Hamas - which literally targets civilians and brags about it - condemned Schmale and was soon joined by the other groups in Gaza who send rockets indiscriminately towards Israel (and often Gaza itself.)

Obviously, Schmale spoke the truth. Israel's airstrikes were more precise than in any previous war. The ratio of combatants to civilian casualties was higher than in any urban war in history. It is literally impossible to avoid killing children when the terrorists deliberately hide themselves, their weapons and their command centers among children, which has been proven over and over again. 

Schmale has apologized over and over for telling the truth. His latest linked to the New York Times photo essay of children killed, saying, "Looking at this harrowing documentation, I deeply regret that my comments about the precision of IDF strikes are being misused to justify what cannot be justified. Killing children breaks the rules of war and must be independently investigated. There must not be impunity!"

(full article online)









						10,000 Gazans demand resignation of Gaza UNRWA Director for a rare display of honesty
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Pally terrorists are their own worst enemy. It would not surprise me to learn that Iranian money has an influence on locations selected for Islamic terrorist attacks and those locations are intended to inflict casualties on Israelis and Sunni Pals as well.




			https://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/palestinian/pages/main%20terrorist%20attacks%20carried%20out%20at%20gaza%20strip%20crossings%2016-jan-2005.aspx
		



Terrorist organizations carry out terrorist attacks at civilian sites that contribute greatly to the welfare of the Palestinian population, such as crossings, while taking advantage of easing of restrictions on the Palestinian population, in order to sabotage the normal Palestinian daily life and any co-existence between Israelis and Palestinians.

Furthermore, by striking at Palestinians’ ability to earn a living, the terrorist organizations attempt to present Israel as responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The propaganda victory doesn't end there. 

Walid was killed along with another son of his, Mohammed. The New York Times listed Mohammed as one of the children killed in Gaza:




But its research into the background of the children it lists doesn't mention that Suleiman's father was a Hamas leader and military target, and therefore he is responsible for Mohammed's death. 

Major media aren't researching how many children were killed because they were near legitimate targets. Instead, the media is more interested in painting Israelis as war criminals, and details like this prove the exact opposite - that Hamas is guilty of war crimes by embedding military targets with civilians.

Hamas understands very well the underlying anti-Israel thinking in major media.

(full article online)









						An example of successful Hamas propaganda
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The propaganda victory doesn't end there.
> 
> Walid was killed along with another son of his, Mohammed. The New York Times listed Mohammed as one of the children killed in Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its research into the background of the children it lists doesn't mention that Suleiman's father was a Hamas leader and military target, and therefore he is responsible for Mohammed's death.
> 
> Major media aren't researching how many children were killed because they were near legitimate targets. Instead, the media is more interested in painting Israelis as war criminals, and details like this prove the exact opposite - that Hamas is guilty of war crimes by embedding military targets with civilians.
> 
> Hamas understands very well the underlying anti-Israel thinking in major media.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example of successful Hamas propaganda
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda victory doesn't end there.
> 
> Walid was killed along with another son of his, Mohammed. The New York Times listed Mohammed as one of the children killed in Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its research into the background of the children it lists doesn't mention that Suleiman's father was a Hamas leader and military target, and therefore he is responsible for Mohammed's death.
> 
> Major media aren't researching how many children were killed because they were near legitimate targets. Instead, the media is more interested in painting Israelis as war criminals, and details like this prove the exact opposite - that Hamas is guilty of war crimes by embedding military targets with civilians.
> 
> Hamas understands very well the underlying anti-Israel thinking in major media.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example of successful Hamas propaganda
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.
Click to expand...

Nonsense.

Utterly unsupported and another of your emotional outbursts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda victory doesn't end there.
> 
> Walid was killed along with another son of his, Mohammed. The New York Times listed Mohammed as one of the children killed in Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its research into the background of the children it lists doesn't mention that Suleiman's father was a Hamas leader and military target, and therefore he is responsible for Mohammed's death.
> 
> Major media aren't researching how many children were killed because they were near legitimate targets. Instead, the media is more interested in painting Israelis as war criminals, and details like this prove the exact opposite - that Hamas is guilty of war crimes by embedding military targets with civilians.
> 
> Hamas understands very well the underlying anti-Israel thinking in major media.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example of successful Hamas propaganda
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Utterly unsupported and another of your emotional outbursts.
Click to expand...

How many children were killed at home?




__





						One moment, please...
					





					www.rememberthesechildren.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Hostages
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

*BLUF*: Yeah, The Arab Palestinians are always the victim.  Hell, if one of them stubs their toe, it's bomes an Israeli Conspiracy.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, most Generals/Senior Commanders, during the battle/campaign, don't tent/billet with their families on the field during the course of the hostilities, so it is trouble for the Arab Palestinian High-Value Targets to do the same.  Rule 97 - The use of human shields is prohibited on the Red Cross Database:   “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts."

Just as failing to take certain actions or inactions can be a "War Crime" in the GCVI:

◈   "avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."​​◈   "everything feasible must be done to evacuate the civilian population from the vicinity of military objectives; in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives."​
We very very seldom see a Chevalier or Cavalier in the ranks of the Arab Palestinian.  Leaders of breeding don't set hostile/combat objective elements inside densely populated areas - nor do they take cover and concealment using the civilian population as cannon fodder.  So, it is no wonder to me that you don't understand the concept discussed here (_clear separation of civilians and protected persons from high-value targets and operational hostile objectives_).







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda victory doesn't end there.
> 
> Walid was killed along with another son of his, Mohammed. The New York Times listed Mohammed as one of the children killed in Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its research into the background of the children it lists doesn't mention that Suleiman's father was a Hamas leader and military target, and therefore he is responsible for Mohammed's death.
> 
> Major media aren't researching how many children were killed because they were near legitimate targets. Instead, the media is more interested in painting Israelis as war criminals, and details like this prove the exact opposite - that Hamas is guilty of war crimes by embedding military targets with civilians.
> 
> Hamas understands very well the underlying anti-Israel thinking in major media.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example of successful Hamas propaganda
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Utterly unsupported and another of your emotional outbursts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many children were killed at home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One moment, please...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rememberthesechildren.org
Click to expand...

You can do some Islamo-high fives for children killed as a result of islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israel.

let’s not pretend that you care a whit for those children. They’re hoped to be useful propaganda for you folks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda victory doesn't end there.
> 
> Walid was killed along with another son of his, Mohammed. The New York Times listed Mohammed as one of the children killed in Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its research into the background of the children it lists doesn't mention that Suleiman's father was a Hamas leader and military target, and therefore he is responsible for Mohammed's death.
> 
> Major media aren't researching how many children were killed because they were near legitimate targets. Instead, the media is more interested in painting Israelis as war criminals, and details like this prove the exact opposite - that Hamas is guilty of war crimes by embedding military targets with civilians.
> 
> Hamas understands very well the underlying anti-Israel thinking in major media.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example of successful Hamas propaganda
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Utterly unsupported and another of your emotional outbursts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many children were killed at home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One moment, please...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rememberthesechildren.org
Click to expand...


You live to see these children exploited. 









						Kids on official PA TV: “A young self-sacrificing fighter” will get rid of “the Zionists” “Palestine is ours… it will be liberated from the thieves” | PMW Analysis
					

“All Palestine is ours and it will be liberated from the thieves… You are temporary, and we remain” - 7-year-old girl




					www.palwatch.org
				





Kids on official PA TV: “A young self-sacrificing fighter” will get rid of “the Zionists” “Palestine is ours… it will be liberated from the thieves”​Itamar Marcus  | May 19, 2021


----------



## Hollie

Yes. You are all Hamas. That’s no one’s fault but your own. 










						‘We are all Hamas’: Palestinians wave terror group’s flag on Temple Mount
					

On last Friday of Ramadan, some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem's Old City, West Bank and Gaza




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





We are all Hamas’: Palestinians wave terror group’s flag on Temple Mount​On last Friday of Ramadan, some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem’s Old City, West Bank and Gaza​By TOI STAFF7 May 2021, 5:44 pm


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Hostages
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: Yeah, The Arab Palestinians are always the victim.  Hell, if one of them stubs their toe, it's bomes an Israeli Conspiracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, most Generals/Senior Commanders, during the battle/campaign, don't tent/billet with their families on the field during the course of the hostilities, so it is trouble for the Arab Palestinian High-Value Targets to do the same.  Rule 97 - The use of human shields is prohibited on the Red Cross Database:   “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts."
> 
> Just as failing to take certain actions or inactions can be a "War Crime" in the GCVI:
> 
> ◈   "avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."​​◈   "everything feasible must be done to evacuate the civilian population from the vicinity of military objectives; in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives."​
> We very very seldom see a Chevalier or Cavalier in the ranks of the Arab Palestinian.  Leaders of breeding don't set hostile/combat objective elements inside densely populated areas - nor do they take cover and concealment using the civilian population as cannon fodder.  So, it is no wonder to me that you don't understand the concept discussed here (_clear separation of civilians and protected persons from high-value targets and operational hostile objectives_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
Click to expand...

You are sooooo full of shit. The Palestinians do not take their children to war. Israel takes its war to Palestinian homes and neighborhoods.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Yes. You are all Hamas. That’s no one’s fault but your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘We are all Hamas’: Palestinians wave terror group’s flag on Temple Mount
> 
> 
> On last Friday of Ramadan, some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem's Old City, West Bank and Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are all Hamas’: Palestinians wave terror group’s flag on Temple Mount​On last Friday of Ramadan, some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem’s Old City, West Bank and Gaza​By TOI STAFF7 May 2021, 5:44 pm





Hollie said:


> some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem’s Old City, West Bank and Gaza


Indeed, they are responding to Israeli violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. You are all Hamas. That’s no one’s fault but your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘We are all Hamas’: Palestinians wave terror group’s flag on Temple Mount
> 
> 
> On last Friday of Ramadan, some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem's Old City, West Bank and Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are all Hamas’: Palestinians wave terror group’s flag on Temple Mount​On last Friday of Ramadan, some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem’s Old City, West Bank and Gaza​By TOI STAFF7 May 2021, 5:44 pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> some worshipers call for attacks on Israel, amid rising violence around Jerusalem’s Old City, West Bank and Gaza
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, they are responding to Israeli violence.
Click to expand...

Indeed, they are responding to Islamic ideology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Hostages
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: Yeah, The Arab Palestinians are always the victim.  Hell, if one of them stubs their toe, it's bomes an Israeli Conspiracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes that a man sleeping at home with mom and the kids is using them for human shields. Therefore it is OK to bomb the family home.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, most Generals/Senior Commanders, during the battle/campaign, don't tent/billet with their families on the field during the course of the hostilities, so it is trouble for the Arab Palestinian High-Value Targets to do the same.  Rule 97 - The use of human shields is prohibited on the Red Cross Database:   “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts."
> 
> Just as failing to take certain actions or inactions can be a "War Crime" in the GCVI:
> 
> ◈   "avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."​​◈   "everything feasible must be done to evacuate the civilian population from the vicinity of military objectives; in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives."​
> We very very seldom see a Chevalier or Cavalier in the ranks of the Arab Palestinian.  Leaders of breeding don't set hostile/combat objective elements inside densely populated areas - nor do they take cover and concealment using the civilian population as cannon fodder.  So, it is no wonder to me that you don't understand the concept discussed here (_clear separation of civilians and protected persons from high-value targets and operational hostile objectives_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are sooooo full of shit. The Palestinians do not take their children to war. Israel takes its war to Palestinian homes and neighborhoods.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Islamic terrorist apologists read from a script.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine on a Plate: Joudie Kalla in conversation with Reem Assil​


----------



## Hollie

I would have thought that Israel understood the Islamic principle of Hudna.

The next war started by the Islamic terrorists may need to drag on for an extended period while Israel plays for keeps. 











						Iran: Hamas already rebuilding Iran-backed rocket arsenal
					

"The Palestinian resistance resumed production of missiles after the end of the recent Israeli aggression," Iranian media has stated.




					m.jpost.com
				




Hamas in the Gaza Strip is already rebuilding its massive rocket arsenal to target Israel in the next war, according to Iranian news reports.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are learning that Gaza tunnels are becoming their graves.


----------



## Hollie

Probably more symbolic because it’s unlikely there is any real chance of collecting damages. 










						Illinois appellate court to hear arguments on Hamas terror funding
					

A judge first ruled in favor of the family of terror victim David Boim, who was killed in a 1996 terrorist attack in Israel, in 2004




					jewishinsider.com
				




Twenty-five years after American yeshiva student David Boim was killed in a terrorist attack at a West Bank bus stop in 1996, oral arguments are set to begin Thursday in an appeal over whether the teenager’s family can collect a monetary judgment ordered by a court in 2004. The family is looking to collect from groups linked to now-defunct organizations accused of providing material support to Hamas, the terrorist organization responsible for Boim’s murder.


----------



## Hollie

When Rashida Tlaib speaks, people point and laugh.












						WATCH: Tlaib demands banks stop financing oil refineries because of 'environmental racism'
					

"Tell me then whether or not you will continue financing for oil refineries, because right now it is morally unacceptable," Tlaib told the bankers.




					thepostmillennial.com
				





​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Probably more symbolic because it’s unlikely there is any real chance of collecting damages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illinois appellate court to hear arguments on Hamas terror funding
> 
> 
> A judge first ruled in favor of the family of terror victim David Boim, who was killed in a 1996 terrorist attack in Israel, in 2004
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty-five years after American yeshiva student David Boim was killed in a terrorist attack at a West Bank bus stop in 1996, oral arguments are set to begin Thursday in an appeal over whether the teenager’s family can collect a monetary judgment ordered by a court in 2004. The family is looking to collect from groups linked to now-defunct organizations accused of providing material support to Hamas, the terrorist organization responsible for Boim’s murder.


Some people will do anything to grab money.

They will just cook up another bullshit trial.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably more symbolic because it’s unlikely there is any real chance of collecting damages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illinois appellate court to hear arguments on Hamas terror funding
> 
> 
> A judge first ruled in favor of the family of terror victim David Boim, who was killed in a 1996 terrorist attack in Israel, in 2004
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jewishinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty-five years after American yeshiva student David Boim was killed in a terrorist attack at a West Bank bus stop in 1996, oral arguments are set to begin Thursday in an appeal over whether the teenager’s family can collect a monetary judgment ordered by a court in 2004. The family is looking to collect from groups linked to now-defunct organizations accused of providing material support to Hamas, the terrorist organization responsible for Boim’s murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people will do anything to grab money.
> 
> They will just cook up another bullshit trial.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorist apologists will do anything to excuse their behaviors.


----------



## Hollie

There's just no placating islamic terrorists. Insensate hatreds for Jews and Christians is a core component of Islamic ideology and those hatreds burn now just as they did during the time of Islam's invention by an Arab warlord. 










						Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “The intifada continues”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 2, 2021





*Fatah: “The intifada continues”*​
*PFLP: “Turn tomorrow into a day of escalating the intifada activity… we must… wage a comprehensive battle of confrontation throughout the occupied land”*​
*The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces called for “a day of popular rage”*​
*PA deputy mayor: “The beautiful words that we all repeat together: ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem’”*​
Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas (May 21.), Fatah and several PLO factions continued to call for “intifada” – the name Palestinians have used for the PA’s past terror campaigns against Israeli civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There's just no placating islamic terrorists. Insensate hatreds for Jews and Christians is a core component of Islamic ideology and those hatreds burn now just as they did during the time of Islam's invention by an Arab warlord.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah: “The intifada continues”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 2, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: “The intifada continues”*​
> *PFLP: “Turn tomorrow into a day of escalating the intifada activity… we must… wage a comprehensive battle of confrontation throughout the occupied land”*​
> *The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces called for “a day of popular rage”*​
> *PA deputy mayor: “The beautiful words that we all repeat together: ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem’”*​
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas (May 21.), Fatah and several PLO factions continued to call for “intifada” – the name Palestinians have used for the PA’s past terror campaigns against Israeli civilians.





Hollie said:


> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas


Did Israel stop its violence?


----------



## Mindful

_The Iranian regime is giving Hamas terrorists resources to produce “thousands of new rockets” in the Gaza Strip, according to a new report in Tehran’s state-controlled media. 
“With the end of the Israeli regime’s latest aggression, the Palestinian resistance has resumed the process of rocket production,” Fathi Hamad, a member of Hamas’s politburo, was quoted as saying over the Memorial Day weekend by Iran’s state-run Fars News Agency. “Our factories and workshops have restarted producing thousands of rockets to stop [Israeli prime minister Benjamin] Netanyahu’s intransigence in Al-Quds [Jerusalem] and Tel Aviv.”
Hamas leaders also said that despite the current calm between the sides, “This war will last forever.”

The comments shows that the weapons pipeline between Iran and Hamas terrorists in the Gaza Strip remains intact following a series of Israeli defensive strikes meant to eradicate the terror group’s supply of rockets. Hamas fired thousands of missiles into Israeli territory during the war, many of them more sophisticated than the typical crude rockets normally fired by the group. Iran is largely responsible for providing Hamas with the funding and materials needed to produce these advanced missiles.

Iranian leaders have made clear in recent days that they will continue arming and funding Hamas,_

Posted in ATW


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's just no placating islamic terrorists. Insensate hatreds for Jews and Christians is a core component of Islamic ideology and those hatreds burn now just as they did during the time of Islam's invention by an Arab warlord.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah: “The intifada continues”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 2, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: “The intifada continues”*​
> *PFLP: “Turn tomorrow into a day of escalating the intifada activity… we must… wage a comprehensive battle of confrontation throughout the occupied land”*​
> *The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces called for “a day of popular rage”*​
> *PA deputy mayor: “The beautiful words that we all repeat together: ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem’”*​
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas (May 21.), Fatah and several PLO factions continued to call for “intifada” – the name Palestinians have used for the PA’s past terror campaigns against Israeli civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Israel stop its violence?
Click to expand...

What violence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's just no placating islamic terrorists. Insensate hatreds for Jews and Christians is a core component of Islamic ideology and those hatreds burn now just as they did during the time of Islam's invention by an Arab warlord.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah: “The intifada continues”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 2, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: “The intifada continues”*​
> *PFLP: “Turn tomorrow into a day of escalating the intifada activity… we must… wage a comprehensive battle of confrontation throughout the occupied land”*​
> *The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces called for “a day of popular rage”*​
> *PA deputy mayor: “The beautiful words that we all repeat together: ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem’”*​
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas (May 21.), Fatah and several PLO factions continued to call for “intifada” – the name Palestinians have used for the PA’s past terror campaigns against Israeli civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Israel stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What violence?
Click to expand...

You need to keep up.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's just no placating islamic terrorists. Insensate hatreds for Jews and Christians is a core component of Islamic ideology and those hatreds burn now just as they did during the time of Islam's invention by an Arab warlord.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah: “The intifada continues”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 2, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: “The intifada continues”*​
> *PFLP: “Turn tomorrow into a day of escalating the intifada activity… we must… wage a comprehensive battle of confrontation throughout the occupied land”*​
> *The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces called for “a day of popular rage”*​
> *PA deputy mayor: “The beautiful words that we all repeat together: ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem’”*​
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas (May 21.), Fatah and several PLO factions continued to call for “intifada” – the name Palestinians have used for the PA’s past terror campaigns against Israeli civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Israel stop its violence?
Click to expand...


No, Israel did not stop the violence of your terrorist buddies in Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's just no placating islamic terrorists. Insensate hatreds for Jews and Christians is a core component of Islamic ideology and those hatreds burn now just as they did during the time of Islam's invention by an Arab warlord.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Fatah: “The intifada continues”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian post-war calls for “escalating the intifada,” Fatah, PFLP, and other PLO factions call for continued intifada and escalation​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 2, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah: “The intifada continues”*​
> *PFLP: “Turn tomorrow into a day of escalating the intifada activity… we must… wage a comprehensive battle of confrontation throughout the occupied land”*​
> *The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces called for “a day of popular rage”*​
> *PA deputy mayor: “The beautiful words that we all repeat together: ‘Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem’”*​
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas (May 21.), Fatah and several PLO factions continued to call for “intifada” – the name Palestinians have used for the PA’s past terror campaigns against Israeli civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Days after a ceasefire was reached between Israel and Hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Israel stop its violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

You need to find a way to compose coherent sentences.


----------



## Hollie

Islamo-day of rage. 

Isn't that everyday for Pally misfits?











						Amid shaky Gaza ceasefire, Hamas calls for West Bank ‘Day of Rage’ on Friday
					

Terror group pushes for violent confrontations at checkpoints and against Israeli settlers in order to 'defend the land and holy sites'




					www.google.com
				




The Hamas terror group urged Palestinians to hold a “Day of Rage” on Friday in order to confront what it called “settlers’ aggression” and the “storming of the Al-Aqsa Mosque” in Jerusalem

1 June 2021, 3:08 pm


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas media department sponsored the ceremony, saying it was "honoring media organizations for their role in covering field events in the Gaza Strip during the days of the aggression."

During the war, the Gaza media dutifully refused to report on Hamas rockets being shot from residential neighborhoods, or of Gazans killed by misfired rockets, or of how GAza human rights organizations identified terrorists killed by Israel as "civilian."

Scores of journalists attended the event, not at all embarrassed to be associated with Hamas, which does not allow freedom of the press in Gaza at all. Hamas logos were prominently displayed during the event.

(full article online)









						Hamas gives awards to media outlets that do its bidding in Gaza
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Seems like a marriage made in heaven. We're discovering the BLM organization is corrupt and money grabbing so the BLM misfits share a common theme with the corrupt and money grabbing Pallys.









						Black Lives Matter’s obscene support for Hamas’ terrorism
					

For an outfit that claims to prioritize racial equality, Black Lives Matter is confoundingly proud to be anti-Israel. The official Twitter account of the main BLM organization this week tweeted its…




					www.google.com
				




May 21, 2021 | 5:47pm

The official Twitter account of the main BLM organization this week tweeted its support for the Hamas terrorists relentlessly seeking to slaughter Israeli civilians.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists fired more than 3,700 rockets at Israel, with hundreds falling short of their targets and killing Palestinians. Somehow, that didn’t bother the BLMers.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


What land is being stolen?

It seems the Pallys read from the same islamo-script, belching out the same slogans.


----------



## Hollie

Here's a surprise. The Shia mullocrats want their stooges in the territories occupied by Pally Islamic terrorists to continue the accumulation of dead Sunni holy warriors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Laila Al-Arian: Free Speech Under Attack for Muslim Americans​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Laila Al-Arian: Free Speech Under Attack for Muslim Americans​



Which male relative gave her permission to speak?


----------



## Hollie

It was quite a celebration. Culturally appropriated rap music, children in military uniforms and Islam terrorists screaming into the microphone celebrating the Iranian Mullocrats who caused the deaths of Sunni stooges.​​Al-Jazeera Airs Hamas Celebration in Honor of Its Members Killed in Recent Conflict​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Announcing that a new minimum wage of 1,880 Israeli shekels/month ($578) had been agreed on in the PA, Sa’ad also revealed that although the PA set a minimum wage of 1,450 shekels ($446) in 2013, it has never really been implemented or enforced. In fact, he explained, some employers just don’t pay the minimum wage, while others use tricks and have the employees pay part of the full salary back to the employer. Women are the most abused by Palestinian employers, sometimes receiving only 500 - 600 shekels a month - 1/3 of the minimum wage:

(full article online)









						Palestinian employers use tricks to pay only 1/2 - 1/3 of minimum wage, reveals trade union leader | PMW Analysis
					

An interview on Labor Day with the Secretary-General of the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions, shed more light on the conditions in the PA labour market.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Schmale had told Israeli TV that Israel's bombing campaign didn't aim at civilian targets and since then UNRWA employees, Hamas and other Gazans have been calling for his scalp.

Schmale apologized profusely but UNRWA asked him to leave Gaza for "consultations." He later announced that he was taking an extended leave of absence.

Not wasting any time, Hamas leader Sinwar met with Schmale's Gaza deputy and apparent replacement  Lenny Stenseth. CLearly he wanted to get a strong message across: 

Nobody in Gaza says anything to the media that Hamas does not approve.

Hamas has vetoed UNRWA curricula before - when UNRWA gingerly announced that it would start teaching students about the Holocaust, Hamas made it clear that they would do no such thing.

The UNRWA teachers union, and I believe its other workers' union, is run by Hamas in Gaza. They make the decisions of what can be taught and said. UNRWA allows itself to be bullied by them.

(full article online)









						Hamas leader meets with UNRWA deputy - to ensure that he won't say the truth which sunk his predecessor
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Noura Erakat on her new book Justice for Some​


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Hamas Buries Rockets for Future Attacks on Israel | United with Israel
					

Hamas regularly uses human shields, burying its rockets in the ground to unearth for later attacks on Israeli civilians.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Wow. Greed and corruption seems to run rampant in the territories occupied by the two, competing Islamic terrorist franchises. 










						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




Palestinian employers use tricks to pay only 1/2 - 1/3 of minimum wage, reveals trade union leader​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 3, 2021



An interview on Labor Day with the Secretary-General of the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions, Shaher Sa’ad, shed more light on the conditions in the PA labour market.
Announcing that a new minimum wage of 1,880 Israeli shekels/month ($578) had been agreed on in the PA, Sa’ad also revealed that although the PA set a minimum wage of 1,450 shekels ($446) in 2013, it has never really been implemented or enforced. In fact, he explained, some employers just don’t pay the minimum wage, while others use tricks and have the employees pay part of the full salary back to the employer. Women are the most abused by Palestinian employers, sometimes receiving only 500 - 600 shekels a month - 1/3 of the minimum wage:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Barghouti Recounts Victories in Acceptance Speech of Gandhi Peace Award​


----------



## Hollie

At least she won't be breeding scores of little islamic terrorists.​​​​







						Fatah Facebook page calls suicide terrorist “hero” on anniversary of her attack | PMW Translations
					

Page administrator: "Today is the 11th anniversary of Ayyat Al-Akhras' Martyrdom death, resident of the Dheisheh refugee camp in Bethlehem, 17 year-old who blew herself up in a shopping center in Jerusalem. In her operation, Ayyat - who should have worn a wedding dress - put on the Palestinian..."




					palwatch.org
				


Fatah Facebook page calls suicide terrorist “hero” on anniversary of her attack​Official Fatah Facebook page  | Mar 29, 2013
*




*


----------



## Hollie

There is a bit of an inconsistency in the linked article. There is mention of economic fallout for the Hamas syndicate but that ignores a seeming reality,  The latest war initiated by the Islamic terrorists in Gaza will be a money making operation. A select few at the top of the Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicate will reap huge rewards whle incurring no risk. Welfare money will be flowing in from Qatar and elsewhere with no real oversight of where the money goes, Hamas will get rich. As for the dead Pallys, they're a cost of doing the gee-had. 











						Hamas Leader Courts Confrontation With Israel, Keeping Gaza on Edge
					

Yahya Sinwar and the militant group now face the political and economic fallout of repeated clashes with Israel, which have set back development in the Gaza Strip.




					www.wsj.com
				




Hamas and Mr. Sinwar are now confronting the political and economic fallout of repeated clashes with Israel, which have set back development in the Gaza Strip, home to more than two million Palestinians—half of whom live below the poverty line, according to the United Nations.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Buried deep within this document is a very mild criticism of Hamas quoting an unnamed development expert in Gaza:


> The policies of the de facto authorities in Gaza are not conducive to economic growth and development. Their export and import policies, as well as discriminatory policies in terms of distribution of land, subsidies, external funding and investment opportunities, are all leading to the demise of small businesses, small farmers and fishers. In contrast, there is no room for advocacy with the government given the limitations placed on civil society or to influence positive change on behalf of those who are victims of these policies.


This is an exceedingly polite way to say that Hamas gives out favors to its members and friends and doesn't give a damn about actual people under its control, who have no recourse - they cannot vote Hamas out, they cannot protest without being arrested.

Elsewhere in this report, Oxfam mentions that Hamas employees are incompetent, possibly because the jobs are given out as favors: "[N]ew staff of the de facto authorities in Gaza have very limited
experience and capacities. "

(full article online)









						Did you ever notice that NGOs hardly ever criticize Hamas' governance?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A Cliffhanger........]

If Israel does not allow the passage of Qatari funds to the Gaza Strip, Hamas will escalate the situation on the border with Israel, sources in the terror group told Lebanese media on Friday.

With Israel’s approval, Qatar has in recent years distributed hundreds of millions of dollars in cash to enable Gaza’s Hamas rulers to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, pay civil servants, and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.

Hamas sources told the Lebanese Al Akhbar newspaper that the organization would wait until the end of next week for the money to enter, “and if this does not happen it will take an important decision regarding the mutual ceasefire” that took effect two weeks ago, after 11 days of fighting with Israel.

(full article online)









						Hamas threatens to renew fighting if Qatari funds don’t enter Gaza next week
					

Unnamed sources in Palestinian terror group tell Lebanese media it will consider options for escalation if Israel doesn't approve the entry of tens of millions of dollars




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ A Cliffhanger........]
> 
> If Israel does not allow the passage of Qatari funds to the Gaza Strip, Hamas will escalate the situation on the border with Israel, sources in the terror group told Lebanese media on Friday.
> 
> With Israel’s approval, Qatar has in recent years distributed hundreds of millions of dollars in cash to enable Gaza’s Hamas rulers to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, pay civil servants, and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.
> 
> Hamas sources told the Lebanese Al Akhbar newspaper that the organization would wait until the end of next week for the money to enter, “and if this does not happen it will take an important decision regarding the mutual ceasefire” that took effect two weeks ago, after 11 days of fighting with Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas threatens to renew fighting if Qatari funds don’t enter Gaza next week
> 
> 
> Unnamed sources in Palestinian terror group tell Lebanese media it will consider options for escalation if Israel doesn't approve the entry of tens of millions of dollars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com


The only place that the people in Gaza can spend that money is Israel. Israel eventually gets that money.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine Mondays: Interview with Susan Abulhawa​


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


See? Gee-had is fun.


----------



## Hollie

Good morning from Israel


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ A Cliffhanger........]
> 
> If Israel does not allow the passage of Qatari funds to the Gaza Strip, Hamas will escalate the situation on the border with Israel, sources in the terror group told Lebanese media on Friday.
> 
> With Israel’s approval, Qatar has in recent years distributed hundreds of millions of dollars in cash to enable Gaza’s Hamas rulers to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, pay civil servants, and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.
> 
> Hamas sources told the Lebanese Al Akhbar newspaper that the organization would wait until the end of next week for the money to enter, “and if this does not happen it will take an important decision regarding the mutual ceasefire” that took effect two weeks ago, after 11 days of fighting with Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas threatens to renew fighting if Qatari funds don’t enter Gaza next week
> 
> 
> Unnamed sources in Palestinian terror group tell Lebanese media it will consider options for escalation if Israel doesn't approve the entry of tens of millions of dollars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only place that the people in Gaza can spend that money is Israel. Israel eventually gets that money.
Click to expand...

Learning your lessons in _taqiyya_


----------



## Hollie

Operation Guardian of the Walls: Targeting Hamas terror, behind the scene
					

Behind the scenes of targeting Hamas terror targets




					m.jpost.com
				




With the IDF having thousands of targets available in the terrorist enclave of Gaza, there were just a few hundred hit.

While the Islamic terrorists won’t admit it, the Israeli military was largely playing games with targeted strikes never unleashing a broad campaign. 


Operation Guardian of the Walls: Targeting Hamas terror, behind the scenes​By ANNA AHRONHEIM 
JUNE 3, 2021 19:50






Despite the relative quiet on the southern front in recent months, the IDF was busy scouting thousands of targets in the densely populated Strip over the past two years, fully expecting another round of fighting to break out at any moment.

Hundreds of targets were struck by the IDF mainly from the air in response to the over 4,000 rockets and missiles fired by the terror groups. Information on hundreds of the targets hit were gathered in real-time, including missile launchers that were aimed at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

She’s Only 10 And Reporting On Israeli Bombings In Occupied Gaza​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> She’s Only 10 And Reporting On Israeli Bombings In Occupied Gaza​


Are Jenna gee-had and Shirley Temper too old? 

Seems like there's this 'thing' with the Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the abuse of female children.


----------



## Hollie

Wow. Hard to fathom. Acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences.

This is turning into a real get-rich-quick scheme for Hamas. Mo' money from WHO and the UN. 











						Israeli bombardment of Gaza leaves Palestine of staggering health needs
					

Following Israel’s bombardment of Gaza last month, the World Health Organization (WHO) link a statement warning of “staggering health needs” in the Palestinian




					timesofislamabad.com
				




Following Israel’s bombardment of Gaza last month, the World Health Organization (WHO) link a statement warning of “staggering health needs” in the Palestinian territories.

“WHO is scaling up its response to provide health aid for almost 200,000 people in need across …. Palestine,” WHO’s Eastern Mediterranean regional office said in a statement.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. To be banished from an Islamic terrorist enclave.

Oh, the pain!










						Palestinians declare UNRWA Gaza director ‘persona non grata’
					

Palestinian factions said that the UNRWA director and his deputy will no longer be permitted to stay in the Gaza Strip “due to his hostile positions and bias in favor of the occupation.”




					m.jpost.com
				





Palestinians declare UNRWA Gaza director ‘persona non grata’​By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
JUNE 2, 2021 20:03





A HAMAS supporter burns an Israeli flag in Gaza City on May 24.
(photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS)
Palestinian factions said that the UNRWA director and his deputy will no longer be permitted to stay in the Gaza Strip “due to his hostile positions and bias in favor of the occupation.”​
Palestinian factions on Wednesday declared Matthias Schmale, director of operations for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) in the Gaza Strip, persona non grata and said he will not be allowed to return to the Hamas-ruled coastal enclave.


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. I hope the Islamic terrorists aren’t so angry with the Great Satan™ that they refuse to take our welfare donations. 










						No ceasefire in Palestinian anti-Americanism
					

Its existence reminds us that education counts, that civil society-building is necessary, and that donor money should be distributed carefully and strategically.




					www.jns.org
				





June 4, 2021 / JNS) Chants of “America is the head of the snake” welcomed U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken to the Palestinians’ working capital of Ramallah last week. Considering that the dictatorial Palestinian Authority runs Ramallah, this protest against “receiving the enemies of the Palestinian people on our land” was tolerated, if not authorized. Such anti-Americanism is as central to the Palestinian national movement’s ideology as terrorism is to the movement’s strategy.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gee, whiz. I hope the Islamic terrorists aren’t so angry with the Great Satan™ that they refuse to take our welfare donations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No ceasefire in Palestinian anti-Americanism
> 
> 
> Its existence reminds us that education counts, that civil society-building is necessary, and that donor money should be distributed carefully and strategically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 4, 2021 / JNS) Chants of “America is the head of the snake” welcomed U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken to the Palestinians’ working capital of Ramallah last week. Considering that the dictatorial Palestinian Authority runs Ramallah, this protest against “receiving the enemies of the Palestinian people on our land” was tolerated, if not authorized. Such anti-Americanism is as central to the Palestinian national movement’s ideology as terrorism is to the movement’s strategy.


The Palestinians love Americans. They just hate the assholes in our government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, whiz. I hope the Islamic terrorists aren’t so angry with the Great Satan™ that they refuse to take our welfare donations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No ceasefire in Palestinian anti-Americanism
> 
> 
> Its existence reminds us that education counts, that civil society-building is necessary, and that donor money should be distributed carefully and strategically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 4, 2021 / JNS) Chants of “America is the head of the snake” welcomed U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken to the Palestinians’ working capital of Ramallah last week. Considering that the dictatorial Palestinian Authority runs Ramallah, this protest against “receiving the enemies of the Palestinian people on our land” was tolerated, if not authorized. Such anti-Americanism is as central to the Palestinian national movement’s ideology as terrorism is to the movement’s strategy.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians love Americans. They just hate the assholes in our government.
Click to expand...

More of your silly propaganda.


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## Hollie

WATCH: Palestinian Government Releases Video of People Trampling American Flag
					

The Palestinian Authority (PA), courted by President Biden with U.S. taxpayer dollars, celebrated the desecration of the U.S. flag.




					www.breitbart.com
				




The Palestinian Authority (PA) government courted by President Joe Biden with hundreds of millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars released a music video last month encouraging Palestinians to step on the U.S. and Israeli flags.


----------



## Hollie

There’s little you can do to placate a 1,400 year old brutish, angry ideology and generations of people taught that the extension of fascism is their birthright.​








						Palestinian gunmen were headed to Jerusalem to carry out a terror attack — TV
					

Female border police commander praised for quick thinking, bravery in stopping the gunmen after they opened fire from a short distance; IDF sending reinforcements to West Bank




					www.timesofisrael.com
				



Palestinian gunmen were headed to Jerusalem to carry out a terror attack — TV​Female border police commander praised for quick thinking, bravery in stopping the gunmen after they opened fire from a short distance; IDF sending reinforcements to West Bank​By TOI STAFF7 May 2021, 11:27 pm


----------



## Mindful

Naharnet reports on something so far ignored by the mainstream media, even though it involves dead palestinian Arabs.


> https://i1.wp.com/www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/refugee-camp.png?ssl=1
> Two individuals were killed during armed clashes in the southern al-Rashidiyeh Palestinian refugee camp in the city of Tyre, the National News Agency reported on Sunday.
> NNA said heavy clashes erupted early on Sunday between Palestinian factions in the camp.
> The clashes expanded and in addition to machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and RPGs were used, according to the agency.
> MTV television station said the clashes erupted between drug dealers in the neighborhood of al-Safouri, and in nearby areas, leaving two people dead and several others wounded.


When palestinians kill each other, it is not news. If no Jews to blame, nothing to see here, move along.









						The Killing of Two Palestinians You Did Not Hear About
					

Naharnet reports on something so far ignored by the mainstream media, even though it involves dead palestinian Arabs




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Mindful said:


> Naharnet reports on something so far ignored by the mainstream media, even though it involves dead palestinian Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://i1.wp.com/www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/refugee-camp.png?ssl=1
> Two individuals were killed during armed clashes in the southern al-Rashidiyeh Palestinian refugee camp in the city of Tyre, the National News Agency reported on Sunday.
> NNA said heavy clashes erupted early on Sunday between Palestinian factions in the camp.
> The clashes expanded and in addition to machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and RPGs were used, according to the agency.
> MTV television station said the clashes erupted between drug dealers in the neighborhood of al-Safouri, and in nearby areas, leaving two people dead and several others wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> When palestinians kill each other, it is not news. If no Jews to blame, nothing to see here, move along.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Killing of Two Palestinians You Did Not Hear About
> 
> 
> Naharnet reports on something so far ignored by the mainstream media, even though it involves dead palestinian Arabs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israellycool.com
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link........

_Palestinians in Lebanon have tried to stay under the radar since the end of the 1975-1990 civil war, *which some blamed them for starting*.

—
_
*Lebanese laws discriminate against Palestinians, who are not allowed to become citizens, and are banned from most white-collar jobs and buying land.*

Sounds like apartheid


----------



## Sixties Fan

Khalidi grudgingly conceded that Hamas’s massed indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel “very likely is” a war crime, yet astonishingly concluded that, compared with Hamas, Israel commits “war crimes on a much larger scale.” “Israel is targeting civilians” with “extreme violence,” he said, notwithstanding the extraordinary efforts Israel undertakes to minimize civilian casualties. “Israel has succeeded in painting Palestinian resistance as terror,” he claimed, as if this “resistance” were anything but terror. Khalidi invoked grotesquely skewed casualty figuresfrom Israel’s 2014 “Operation Protective Edge” against Hamas to state that “killing 2,200 civilians in Gaza in 2014 is not terror. Killing a dozen Israeli civilians is terror.”

In stark contrast, the two professors whitewashed Hamas’s lethal actions. “There is a lot of talk about Hamas, and this is in some way a diversionary tactic to just focus on this one group within a very complicated ecosystem of political groups,” said Aziz, as if Hamas’s jihadist ideology were not rampant among Palestinians. Khalidi chided that European countries, Israel and the United States refused “to deal with an elected representative” in Hamas terrorists committed to Israel’s destruction and counterfactually concluded that “Hamas supports a two-state solution.”

(full article online)









						Hamas apologists slander Israel at Rutgers ‘teach-in’
					

The panelists’ extremist views made grotesque a professor’s fundraising appeals in order to produce additional terrorist-whitewashing webinars.




					www.jns.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The recent conflict in Gaza was primarily fought between Hamas’ military wing, al-Qassam Brigades, and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). However, a total of 17 Palestinian militant groups have been identified by FDD’s Long War Journal as active participants in the eleven day conflict. 

The conflict began May 10 when the spokesperson of al-Qassam Brigades, Abu Obeida, published a statementsaying Israel had until 6:00 pm local time to withdraw its forces from al-Aqsa Mosque and to release those who were arrested in clashes with Israeli police. Israel did not fulfill the demand and subsequently the militant group firedrockets towards Jerusalem. 

FDD’s Long War Journal was able to identify militant activity during the conflict through previously established media channels operated by the various Palestinian factions.

Al-Qassam Brigades, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s Saraya al-Quds were the most active groups in publishing evidence of their attacks. Both groups also used their online platforms to unveil rockets and drones not seen in previous clashes. 

Smaller factions such as Humat al-Aqsa and Jihad Jibril Brigades also published footage depicting their militants launching rockets and mortars towards Israeli communities near the Gaza border. 

Furthermore, salifist-jihadist groups such as Jaysh al-Umma and Katibat al-Sheikh al-Emireen published claims of responsibility and footage of attacks against Israel. 

Other notable groups involved in the conflict were, Mujahideen Brigades, Abdul al-Qadir al-Husseini Brigades and two splinter groups from al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

(full article online)





__





						Analysis: 17 Palestinian militant factions identified in recent Gaza conflict | FDD's Long War Journal
					

More than a dozen Palestinian militants factions fought against the Israel Defense Forces during the recent conflict in Gaza.



					www.longwarjournal.org


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Naharnet reports on something so far ignored by the mainstream media, even though it involves dead palestinian Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://i1.wp.com/www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/refugee-camp.png?ssl=1
> Two individuals were killed during armed clashes in the southern al-Rashidiyeh Palestinian refugee camp in the city of Tyre, the National News Agency reported on Sunday.
> NNA said heavy clashes erupted early on Sunday between Palestinian factions in the camp.
> The clashes expanded and in addition to machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and RPGs were used, according to the agency.
> MTV television station said the clashes erupted between drug dealers in the neighborhood of al-Safouri, and in nearby areas, leaving two people dead and several others wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> When palestinians kill each other, it is not news. If no Jews to blame, nothing to see here, move along.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Killing of Two Palestinians You Did Not Hear About
> 
> 
> Naharnet reports on something so far ignored by the mainstream media, even though it involves dead palestinian Arabs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israellycool.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link........
> 
> _Palestinians in Lebanon have tried to stay under the radar since the end of the 1975-1990 civil war, *which some blamed them for starting*.
> 
> —_
> 
> *Lebanese laws discriminate against Palestinians, who are not allowed to become citizens, and are banned from most white-collar jobs and buying land.*
> 
> Sounds like apartheid
Click to expand...

Apartheid is so much a part of Islamism. 

The lebanese treat their Pallys like Hamas treats the Mahmoud'istanians and neither Gaza nor the West Bank will allow those Pallys in Lebanon a right of return to the 'country of Pal'istan', which, as we know, was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne. 

Those poor, oppressed Pallys lanquish in Lebanese 'open air prisons'.

It's apartheid I tell ya'.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Just maybe......UNWRA can stop using their organization as a way of having a job, since most Arabs living in Gaza are not refugees from where Israel stands, and cannot claim refugee status.
And also, maybe UNWRA can stop teaching Muslim/Nazi hatred of Jews to any and all of the population of Gaza, and start working on teaching them to live in peace next to Israel.    
Just, maybe.....  ]











						UNRWA finds attack tunnel under one of its Gaza schools
					

The Agency also took issue with IDF activity, noting that the school was an emergency shelter and should have been immune from attack.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The recent conflict in Gaza was primarily fought between Hamas’ military wing, al-Qassam Brigades, and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). However, a total of 17 Palestinian militant groups have been identified by FDD’s Long War Journal as active participants in the eleven day conflict.
> 
> The conflict began May 10 when the spokesperson of al-Qassam Brigades, Abu Obeida, published a statementsaying Israel had until 6:00 pm local time to withdraw its forces from al-Aqsa Mosque and to release those who were arrested in clashes with Israeli police. Israel did not fulfill the demand and subsequently the militant group firedrockets towards Jerusalem.
> 
> FDD’s Long War Journal was able to identify militant activity during the conflict through previously established media channels operated by the various Palestinian factions.
> 
> Al-Qassam Brigades, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s Saraya al-Quds were the most active groups in publishing evidence of their attacks. Both groups also used their online platforms to unveil rockets and drones not seen in previous clashes.
> 
> Smaller factions such as Humat al-Aqsa and Jihad Jibril Brigades also published footage depicting their militants launching rockets and mortars towards Israeli communities near the Gaza border.
> 
> Furthermore, salifist-jihadist groups such as Jaysh al-Umma and Katibat al-Sheikh al-Emireen published claims of responsibility and footage of attacks against Israel.
> 
> Other notable groups involved in the conflict were, Mujahideen Brigades, Abdul al-Qadir al-Husseini Brigades and two splinter groups from al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: 17 Palestinian militant factions identified in recent Gaza conflict | FDD's Long War Journal
> 
> 
> More than a dozen Palestinian militants factions fought against the Israel Defense Forces during the recent conflict in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> www.longwarjournal.org





Sixties Fan said:


> The conflict began May 10 when the spokesperson of al-Qassam Brigades, Abu Obeida, published a statementsaying Israel had until 6:00 pm local time to withdraw its forces from al-Aqsa Mosque and to release those who were arrested in clashes with Israeli police. Israel did not fulfill the demand and subsequently the militant group firedrockets towards Jerusalem.


Indeed, Israel could have avoided that war. They preferred the rockets.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The recent conflict in Gaza was primarily fought between Hamas’ military wing, al-Qassam Brigades, and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). However, a total of 17 Palestinian militant groups have been identified by FDD’s Long War Journal as active participants in the eleven day conflict.
> 
> The conflict began May 10 when the spokesperson of al-Qassam Brigades, Abu Obeida, published a statementsaying Israel had until 6:00 pm local time to withdraw its forces from al-Aqsa Mosque and to release those who were arrested in clashes with Israeli police. Israel did not fulfill the demand and subsequently the militant group firedrockets towards Jerusalem.
> 
> FDD’s Long War Journal was able to identify militant activity during the conflict through previously established media channels operated by the various Palestinian factions.
> 
> Al-Qassam Brigades, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s Saraya al-Quds were the most active groups in publishing evidence of their attacks. Both groups also used their online platforms to unveil rockets and drones not seen in previous clashes.
> 
> Smaller factions such as Humat al-Aqsa and Jihad Jibril Brigades also published footage depicting their militants launching rockets and mortars towards Israeli communities near the Gaza border.
> 
> Furthermore, salifist-jihadist groups such as Jaysh al-Umma and Katibat al-Sheikh al-Emireen published claims of responsibility and footage of attacks against Israel.
> 
> Other notable groups involved in the conflict were, Mujahideen Brigades, Abdul al-Qadir al-Husseini Brigades and two splinter groups from al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: 17 Palestinian militant factions identified in recent Gaza conflict | FDD's Long War Journal
> 
> 
> More than a dozen Palestinian militants factions fought against the Israel Defense Forces during the recent conflict in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> www.longwarjournal.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The conflict began May 10 when the spokesperson of al-Qassam Brigades, Abu Obeida, published a statementsaying Israel had until 6:00 pm local time to withdraw its forces from al-Aqsa Mosque and to release those who were arrested in clashes with Israeli police. Israel did not fulfill the demand and subsequently the militant group firedrockets towards Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel could have avoided that war. They preferred the rockets.
Click to expand...

Indeed, your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

I'm afraid this is more of the sickness that defines Pal-Arab'ism.

I'm afraid the young lady doesn't understand that as a propaganda tool for her daddy, others will die so her daddy can steal welfare money being donated by foreign nations.

Hamas will do very well financially from the dead Pallys as a result of their starting a conflict.











						Hamas’ abuse of kids in Gaza: “If we die, we’ll die as Martyrs” - Hamas spokesman’s young daughter | PMW Analysis
					

Children in Gaza taught to seek martyrdom-death, chant: “Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem”




					palwatch.org
				




Hamas’ abuse of kids in Gaza: “If we die, we’ll die as Martyrs” - Hamas spokesman’s young daughter​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 6, 2021




*"Our land [is] Palestine from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea… Israel will be destroyed”*​
*Children in Gaza taught to seek martyrdom-death, chant: “Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem”*​
Meet Lama. She is the young daughter of Hamas’ Ministry of Internal Affairs’ spokesman Iyad Al-Buzum. He posted this video of her amid Hamas’ rocket barrage against Israel last month.




Child abuse? Deside for yourself:


----------



## Hollie

I'm thinking that both islamic terrorist franchises; Hamas and Fatah, are feeling pretty good about the money they expect will roll in after the beatdown they took during the recent scuffle with Israel. Mahmoud will splash some cash around to keep the minions placated.












						PA Awards $43,000 to Family of Terrorist who Murdered 2 Israelis in 2015
					

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has ordered to pay close to $43,000 to the family of a terrorist who murdered two Israelis in Jerusalem about six years ago, Kan 11 reported Sunday.In




					www.jewishpress.com
				





Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has ordered to pay close to $43,000 to the family of a terrorist who murdered two Israelis in Jerusalem about six years ago, Kan 11 reported Sunday


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week I reported that Hamas had an awards gala to recognize journalists in Gaza who did everything the terror group wanted them to.

Today it was Islamic Jihad's turn.





The awards show was held at the luxury Reef Al Madina restaurant. 

Islamic Jihad honored media professionals for "reporting Israeli crimes." 

(full article online)









						Islamic Jihad hands out awards to journalists in Gaza
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Article 22 shows that the PLO considers all of Israel to be "occupied." And Article 24 shows that the PLO did not consider the West Bank or Gaza to be part of the Palestinian state that they said they wanted.

Here's a photo of a PLO meeting in Gaza before 1967, with a map of "Palestine" in the backdrop showing that they didn't consider the West Bank and Gaza to be the same as the part of Palestine they sought:







Only after the Six Day War did the PLO decide that the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Palestinian state they sought.

To summarize: The PLO only wants the parts of Palestine that are controlled by Jews.

(We've discussed many times that "historic Palestine"includes parts of Lebanon and Jordan which the PLO never claimed.)

Another interesting fact is that the Palestinian claim on Jerusalem started well after 1967!

The 1968 PLO Charter does not mention Jerusalem once.

Have you ever noticed that Palestinian officials love to put a photo of the Dome of the Rock as a backdrop in all their offices? Here's Mahmoud Abbas with Secretary of State Blinken last month.

------
Palestinian claims on Jerusalem seem to have been carefully coordinated with other Arabs (for example, in an Arab meeting in 1982) but it seems that only after 1988 when Jordan renounced its claim to the West Bank did the PLO make Jerusalem a key demand.

(full article online)









						The years between 1964 and 1967 tell you all you need to know about Palestinian goals
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

As anti-Israel activists try to bring Sheikh Jarrah back in the forefront of the world's attention, a simple question comes up.

According to Israeli legal rulings, if the residents of the homes that are in the news would just pay rent to the Jewish owners, they cannot be evicted, ever.

If people are really concerned about three families perhaps becoming homeless, then why doesn't anyone just pay the rent?

The reason: Honor. By paying rent, it would be admitting that Jews own the homes, which has been proven time and time again over four decades of legal rulings. 

But the people who are making the decision not to pay the rent don't appear to be the residents. According to a Jewish Press article, the entire case has been taken over by the PLO and they are the ones who are deciding what is best for the residents - meaning, no compromise, no accepting deals, no paying rent.

To the PLO, it is more honorable for the residents to be homeless than to admit that Jews own the homes. 

Of course, Palestinian leaders don't have to pay the price for making a decision like this. They are forcing the hapless residents to adhere to the Higher Principle of Palestinian Honor: Sacrifice yourself for our principles.

This is a pattern. 


(full article online)









						Misplaced honor: The real obstacle to peace
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sinwar admits that Hamass has been putting its military headquarters among high rise buildings and residential buildings.

Of course, this was done deliberately, so the only reasons that Hamas might be saying it is moving them now is that it is being pressured to - either quietly from Hamas-friendly NGOs, or Arab states, or perhaps even from Gazans themselves who are homeless because Hamas chose to use them as human shields. 

(full article online)









						Hamas leader admits that many terror headquarters are in civilian buildings
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The corrupt UN agency dedicated to financing Islamic terrorism is making excuses for why tunnels for missile storage under a school is, you know, not so big a deal.

The usual,Pally behavior of using their children as a disposable commodity. 












						Tunnel Found Under UNRWA School in Gaza - Hamodia.com
					

A tunnel dug by Palestinian terrorists in Gaza was uncovered under a school operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), according to



					hamodia.com
				




The interior of a Hamas tunnel uncovered near the border with the Gaza Strip. (Dario Sanchez/Flash90/File Photo)

A tunnel dug by Palestinian terrorists in Gaza was uncovered under a school operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), according to The Jerusalem Post on Sunday.

The school itself, the UNRWA Zaitoun Boys’ School “A,” was one of two of the organization’s facilities damaged during the Gaza fighting.

At the end of May, UNRWA found what “appears to be a cavity and a possible tunnel, at the location of the missile strike.”

“The depth of the cavity is approximately 7.5 meters below the surface of the school. UNRWA discovered the existence of a possible tunnel in the context of the investigation of the fired missile,” it said in a statement.

UNRWA claimed that the tunnel was not connected to the school. There is no “indication of the existence of any entry or exit points for the tunnel within the premises,” it added.

The organization condemned both Palestinians who built the tunnel and the IDF for its attacks, which it alleged caused damage to the school.


----------



## Hollie

It’s a bit of stating the obvious that Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organization and wider acknowledgment is important. Western nations now need to refuse funding that Islamic terrorist organization with welfare dollars.











						35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
					

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.

“The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature,” Luis Almagro of Uruguay, the OAS secretary-general, wrote Monday in a statement. “Hamas’s terrorist aggression is unlimited and always seeks civilian victims, seeks to escalate conflict dynamics and armed actions, as well as sowing terror among innocent populations, be they Israeli or Palestinian.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It’s a bit of stating the obvious that Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organization and wider acknowledgment is important. Western nations now need to refuse funding that Islamic terrorist organization with welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
> 
> 
> Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.
> 
> “The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature,” Luis Almagro of Uruguay, the OAS secretary-general, wrote Monday in a statement. “Hamas’s terrorist aggression is unlimited and always seeks civilian victims, seeks to escalate conflict dynamics and armed actions, as well as sowing terror among innocent populations, be they Israeli or Palestinian.”


Interesting opinion.

BTW, the OAS is a US run organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s a bit of stating the obvious that Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organization and wider acknowledgment is important. Western nations now need to refuse funding that Islamic terrorist organization with welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
> 
> 
> Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.
> 
> “The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature,” Luis Almagro of Uruguay, the OAS secretary-general, wrote Monday in a statement. “Hamas’s terrorist aggression is unlimited and always seeks civilian victims, seeks to escalate conflict dynamics and armed actions, as well as sowing terror among innocent populations, be they Israeli or Palestinian.”
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting opinion.
> 
> BTW, the OAS is a US run organization.
Click to expand...

I've hurt your feelings again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s a bit of stating the obvious that Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organization and wider acknowledgment is important. Western nations now need to refuse funding that Islamic terrorist organization with welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
> 
> 
> Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.
> 
> “The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature,” Luis Almagro of Uruguay, the OAS secretary-general, wrote Monday in a statement. “Hamas’s terrorist aggression is unlimited and always seeks civilian victims, seeks to escalate conflict dynamics and armed actions, as well as sowing terror among innocent populations, be they Israeli or Palestinian.”
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting opinion.
> 
> BTW, the OAS is a US run organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've hurt your feelings again.
Click to expand...

Why should your ignorance hurt my feelings?


----------



## Hollie

It's a great admonition: "don't fund islamic terrorism" but Biden is definitely not listening.











						By Renewing Palestinian Aid, America Is Funding Terrorism
					

We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.




					nationalinterest.org
				




We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s a bit of stating the obvious that Hamas is an Islamic terrorist organization and wider acknowledgment is important. Western nations now need to refuse funding that Islamic terrorist organization with welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
> 
> 
> Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.
> 
> “The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature,” Luis Almagro of Uruguay, the OAS secretary-general, wrote Monday in a statement. “Hamas’s terrorist aggression is unlimited and always seeks civilian victims, seeks to escalate conflict dynamics and armed actions, as well as sowing terror among innocent populations, be they Israeli or Palestinian.”
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting opinion.
> 
> BTW, the OAS is a US run organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've hurt your feelings again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should your ignorance hurt my feelings?
Click to expand...

Every refutation to your specious opinions hurts your feelings.


----------



## Mindful

_A new series where I bring to you news from the newspaper archives to debunk common misconceptions about the Middle East conflict._
Something the Israel haters do not admit – heck, even people on our side don’t realize this – is that following our victory in the Six Day War, we made a real effort to repatriate Arab refugees displaced by the war.

As you can see from the below New York Times report, the Israeli government made an offer for refugees from “the west bank” to return. It was not an easy decision, and there was real debate and opposition to it based on security considerations. Also note a committee was set up to help rehabilitate the refugees (including those from Gaza), including experts in things like agriculture and industry.

Read more >>>









						Know Your History: Israel's Offer to Repatriate Arab Refugees (NY Times July 1967)
					

Another fascinating glimpse at the past




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's a great admonition: "don't fund islamic terrorism" but Biden is definitely not listening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Renewing Palestinian Aid, America Is Funding Terrorism
> 
> 
> We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.


You can tell propaganda by all of the name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a great admonition: "don't fund islamic terrorism" but Biden is definitely not listening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Renewing Palestinian Aid, America Is Funding Terrorism
> 
> 
> We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We urge the administration to not dishonor itself by doing the unconscionable: laundering our own tax dollars to the very terror networks responsible for promoting and rewarding the shedding of innocent blood, particularly that of our fellow citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> You can tell propaganda by all of the name calling.
Click to expand...

But enough about your posting.


----------



## Hollie

With no practical way to prevent the islamic terrorist franchises from stealing US welfare money to the Pallys, it is just unconscionable that the Biden clown show is going to throw welfate money at them.











						Why Cutting off Aid to Hamas Is Insufficient
					

Congress should take concrete steps to ensure that UNRWA does not become a pass-through for funding to terrorists.




					nationalinterest.org
				





Hundreds of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid is pouring in from around the world to rebuild Gaza after the recent war between Israel and over a dozen Palestinian terrorist groups. But rebuilding a territory that is controlled by Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, is complicated. American laws place conditions on the flow of funds. But it’s not that simple. The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the UN agency tasked with aid distribution to the Palestinians, doesn’t consider Gaza’s violent extremist groups to be terrorist organizations. Not even Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With no practical way to prevent the islamic terrorist franchises from stealing US welfare money to the Pallys, it is just unconscionable that the Biden clown show is going to throw welfate money at them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Cutting off Aid to Hamas Is Insufficient
> 
> 
> Congress should take concrete steps to ensure that UNRWA does not become a pass-through for funding to terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid is pouring in from around the world to rebuild Gaza after the recent war between Israel and over a dozen Palestinian terrorist groups. But rebuilding a territory that is controlled by Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, is complicated. American laws place conditions on the flow of funds. But it’s not that simple. The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the UN agency tasked with aid distribution to the Palestinians, doesn’t consider Gaza’s violent extremist groups to be terrorist organizations. Not even Hamas.





Hollie said:


> the UN agency tasked with aid distribution to the Palestinians, doesn’t consider Gaza’s violent extremist groups to be terrorist organizations. Not even Hamas.


They don't use our name calling list.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With no practical way to prevent the islamic terrorist franchises from stealing US welfare money to the Pallys, it is just unconscionable that the Biden clown show is going to throw welfate money at them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Cutting off Aid to Hamas Is Insufficient
> 
> 
> Congress should take concrete steps to ensure that UNRWA does not become a pass-through for funding to terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid is pouring in from around the world to rebuild Gaza after the recent war between Israel and over a dozen Palestinian terrorist groups. But rebuilding a territory that is controlled by Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, is complicated. American laws place conditions on the flow of funds. But it’s not that simple. The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the UN agency tasked with aid distribution to the Palestinians, doesn’t consider Gaza’s violent extremist groups to be terrorist organizations. Not even Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> the UN agency tasked with aid distribution to the Palestinians, doesn’t consider Gaza’s violent extremist groups to be terrorist organizations. Not even Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't use our name calling list.
Click to expand...

You have a list you found on youtube.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A press release from the IDF belatedly explains the reason that it destroyed the Al Jalaa building, which housed offices of AP and Al Jazeera:




> During Operation "Guardians of the Walls" the IDF struck the al-Jalaa building on May 15th, 2021. The site was used by the Hamas terror organization for intelligence R&D and to carry out SIGINT (signals intelligence), ELINT (electronic signals intelligence), and EW (electronic warfare) operations, targeting both IDF operational activity and civilian systems in Israel.
> 
> One of the main goals of these efforts was to develop a system that would disrupt the Iron Dome aerial defense system.
> 
> The purpose of the IDF strike was to curtail these enemy capabilities, including destroying special equipment, and preventing their use during the operation. According to IDF assessments, the equipment was in the building at the time of the strike. The strike was designed to collapse the building in order to ensure the destruction of the special means.
> 
> The target was of high military value to Hamas and was vetted according to rigorous procedures within the IDF, and in accordance with international law.
> 
> In light of the nature of the target, prior to the strike, the IDF provided civilians in the building advance warning. Significant efforts were made to enable civilians to evacuate the building. The evacuation process was meticulous, and as a result, no civilians were harmed.
> 
> This event should be put into context - Hamas intentionally operates within the civilian population of Gaza and does so in order to hamper the IDF’s operational activity.
> 
> The IDF will continue to maintain the security of Israeli citizens, while doing its best to prevent any possible harm to non-combatants.


This is by any measure appropriate under international law. An electronic warfare site is as valuable as any command and control center.  

(full article online)









						The IDF (finally!) explains what Hamas was doing in the Al Jalaa (AP, Al Jazeera) building
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Yahya "I'm converting to Shia'ism" Sinwar has advised he his moving his islamic terrorist franchise out of residential areas after receiving his allowance from the Iranian Mullocrats. 

Maybe he will surround his new clubhouse with women in their islamically correct head to toe Shame Sacks. 










						Hamas Leader In Gaza Yahya Sinwar: We Received Money From Iran In The Last Few Days; We Are In The Process Of Moving Our Headquarters Out Of Residential Areas
					

Hamas leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar thanked Iran and Hizbullah for their financial aid to the factions in Gaza following t...




					www.memri.org
				




Hamas Leader In Gaza Yahya Sinwar: We Received Money From Iran In The Last Few Days; We Are In The Process Of Moving Our Headquarters Out Of Residential Areas


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are plenty of populated areas marked at blue on the map where deaths and injuries seem far more likely to have come from terrorist group rockets than from Israeli fire. Here's one:

No one is investigating these strikes, of course. But 680 rockets landed somewhere, and we know they - killed people - and some of them killed many as we know from the first day. They are bigger than the rockets of the past. Israel knows its targets, and it is absurd to think that Israel is targeting random houses with children when we know that the IDF calls residents before attacking rocket launch sites or Hamas command and control centers.

(full article online)









						How many Gazans were killed by terrorist rockets? A lot more than are being reported
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_


P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the OAS is a US run organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've hurt your feelings again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should your ignorance hurt my feelings?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are just so full of crap.






_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Already used and abused by the Islamic terrorist cultists.


----------



## Hollie

In this episode of Mr. Mufti says….









						Palestinian Authority Mufti Of Jerusalem Sheikh Muhammad Hussein In Event Honoring The 'Martyrs' Of Gaza And Jerusalem: Martyrdom Is A Badge Of Honor That Allah Bestows Upon Those He Chooses
					

Palestinian Authority Mufti of Jerusalem Sheikh Muhammad Hussein said that martyrdom is a badge of honor that Allah best...




					www.memri.org
				





Palestinian Authority Mufti Of Jerusalem Sheikh Muhammad Hussein In Event Honoring The 'Martyrs' Of Gaza And Jerusalem: Martyrdom Is A Badge Of Honor That Allah Bestows Upon Those He Chooses.​

Gee, whiz. We’re told “this is not a religious conflict”.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Well, yeah. The planet has known for decades that UNRWA and the Pally welfare fraud has operated as a criminal / Islamic terrorist syndicate.  





__





						MEMRI TV
					

MEMRI's archive of Middle East reports includes translations, Special Dispatches, and Inquiry and Analysis papers from and about media and events in the region on a wide range of topics, from 1998 to the present.




					www.memri.org
				



Vienna-Based Syrian Journalist Thaer Al-Nashef: Hamas Uses Civilians As Human Shields; Hamas Leaders Split Gaza Rehabilitation Aid Among Themselves​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

AQ has a work opportunity if you’re looking to support an affiliate of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. _

Should be fun to see the Sunni / Salafi AQ types commiserate with the heretics in Hamas and their Shia masters in Iran. Sounds like the ingredients to keep those ancient religious hatred burning. 









						Al-Qaeda Bulletin Calls On Muslims To Carry Out Attacks Against U.S. And Jewish Interests Worldwide, Support Mujahideen In Palestine Financially And With Weapons And Men
					

Al-Qaeda calls for attacks against U.S. Jewish interests worldwide




					www.memri.org
				




Al-Qaeda Bulletin Calls On Muslims To Carry Out Attacks Against U.S. And Jewish Interests Worldwide, Support Mujahideen In Palestine Financially And With Weapons And Men​

​


----------



## Hollie

Oh, well. At least the Iranians had a good laugh. 











						Failed Hamas rockets killed Gaza civilians, says security official
					

“Hamas uses the civil platform to shoot at us. It doesn’t distinguish between civilians and the Israeli army. But we are doing all we can to distinguish between the two components,” the official told JNS.




					www.jns.org
				




After Hamas fired rockets at Jerusalem at 6 p.m. local time, three hours passed before the Israel Defense Forces responded at 9 p.m., according to the source. Yet during those three hours, he said, 17 Gazan noncombatants were killed by failed rocket launches that crashed into Gaza areas.


----------



## Hollie

Ahmad ‘’_The Conquerer_” Al-Khatwani has some pretty ambitious plans reshaping for the Islamist Middle East. As you might expect, his plans call for conquering Israel and The Great Satan™ but he’s also calling for bringing down Arab regimes.

I think Tehran may want to have a sit-down with this guy. 











						Al-Aqsa Mosque Lecture By Palestinian Political Researcher Ahmad Al-Khatwani: We Need To Topple The Regimes Of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, And Syria In Order To Defeat Jewish State, Chop Off American Hands
					

Palestinian political researcher Ahmad Al-Khatwani said that an Islamic state, a Caliphate, is the only way to reach Isl...




					www.memri.org
				





Al-Aqsa Mosque Lecture by Palestinian Political Researcher Ahmad Al-Khatwani: We Need to Topple Regimes of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria in Order to Defeat Jewish State, Chop Off American Hands​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Jazeera got an exclusive look at Hamas tunnels under Gaza, because they are essentially the official news network of Hamas. 




Hamas partnered with the Qatari channel in order to "prove" that Israel didn't cause extensive damage to the tunnel system. Israel, of course, notes that the Hamas "metro" is hundreds of kilometers and the IDF never claimed to have destroyed it all. 

The IDF says that it destroyed about 100 km of tunnels, Hamas claims to have built over 500 km of tunnels - which must make Gazans feel very insecure.

Last week, Hamas gave an award to Al Jazeera for its Gaza war coverage, for not deviating from the stories that Hamas wanted them to do.

While I cannot understand the Arabic, it seems obvious that the Al Jazeera reporter didn't ask questions like, "If you can build these tunnels, why don't you build bomb shelters for the people you rule?" or "Can you show me a tunnel that Israel destroyed?"

(full article online)









						Al Jazeera cozies up to Hamas for documentary on extensive terror tunnels (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Jewish teacher who works in the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) has resigned from the United Teachers Los Angeles (UTLA) union after it moved to take up a pro-BDS motion at an upcoming meeting.

The motion endorsing “the international campaign for boycotts, divestment, and sanctions against apartheid in Israel” was passed by UTLA’s North Area and Harbor area units on May 20 and will be taken up by the greater union at a September meeting.

Lindsey Kohn, a sixth-grade math and science teacher at a North Hollywood middle school, wrote in her resignation letter that the motion made her “feel unsafe as a Jew in this UTLA,” reported the _Jewish Journal_.

“As an educated person, I cannot understand how the union can stand by a terrorist organization… that bombs Israel, hurts their children and wants to kill every Jew. The Palestinians use children and civilians as human shields and then blame Israel for their death. This political battle has NOTHING to do with the education of my students,” she said.

(full article online)









						Jewish teacher resigns from LA union over pro-BDS motion
					

Jewish teacher slams union for bringing to motion a vote that "stands by a terrorist organization...that wants to kill every Jew."




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

It's precisely what you would expect from a religious cult.











						Jerusalem Arab activist’s role model is terrorist murderer of 37 | PMW Analysis
					

Her phone is decorated with an image of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37, 12 of them children




					www.palwatch.org
				





Jerusalem Arab activist’s role model is terrorist murderer of 37
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 8, 2021
Activist's phone is decorated with an image of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37, 12 of them children
Fatah: “May you live as a rebel defending our Jerusalem, like your role model Dalal Mughrabi.”


Abbas’ Fatah party promotes a terrorist who led the murder of 37, 12 of them children, as a “role model” for young adults.


----------



## Hollie

Here we are again…. still….. with obvious evidence that our taxpayer funded welfare donations to the Islamic terrorists gets diverted to be used for indoctrinating the next generation of Islamic terrorist suicide bombers, killers and sociopaths. 











						Palestinian NGOs funded by US introduced kids to terrorists, watchdog finds
					

Millions in American tax dollars were passed on to Palestinian programs that introduced children in Gaza and the West Bank to convicted terrorists and presented them as role models, according to a new report from the Israeli watchdog group NGO Monitor.




					www.foxnews.com
				





Millions in American tax dollars were passed on to Palestinian programs that introduced children in Gaza and the West Bank to convicted terrorists and presented them as role models, according to a new report from the Israeli watchdog group NGO Monitor.

The money originally arrived in the region as part of $500 million in relief funds from USAID, according to the report. But six controversial non-government organizations received a total of $7.2 million between 2015 and 2019 in the form of subgrants doled out by primary aid recipients.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Good post.


----------



## Hollie

Paying islamic terrorists to do what islamic terrorists do seems like an inherently bad idea. President Trump clearly understood that and ended our islamic terrorist welfare payments. 










						Why Cutting off Aid to Hamas Is Insufficient
					

Congress should take concrete steps to ensure that UNRWA does not become a pass-through for funding to terrorists.




					nationalinterest.org
				




Hundreds of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid is pouring in from around the world to rebuild Gaza after the recent war between Israel and over a dozen Palestinian terrorist groups. But rebuilding a territory that is controlled by Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, is complicated. American laws place conditions on the flow of funds. But it’s not that simple. The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the UN agency tasked with aid distribution to the Palestinians, doesn’t consider Gaza’s violent extremist groups to be terrorist organizations. Not even Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Hamas Clown Council forgets this is the year 2021, nor 731.













						Senior Hamas Official In The West Bank Sheikh Jamal Al-Tawil On Palestinian Authority TV: Palestine From The River To The Sea Is United Under The Banner Of Resistance And Intifada
					

Senior Hamas official in the West Bank Sheikh Jamal Al-Tawil said that Palestine, from the Jordan river to the Mediterra...




					www.memri.org
				




*Senior Hamas Official In The West Bank Sheikh Jamal Al-Tawil On Palestinian Authority TV: Palestine From The River To The Sea Is United Under The Banner Of Resistance And Intifada*​


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists occupying the West Bank are a bit miffed that the welfare donations which maintain the various islamic terrorist syndicates operating as "Fatah" should have any conditions attached. 

Without the next generation of gee-had sociopaths groomed by the islamic terrorist syndicates, the entire syndicate collapses under the dead weight of its own inability to function. 











						PA rejects “any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula” | PMW Analysis
					

PLO: No one should criticize PA education for “incitement,” it must be “free from all foreign aid that imposes conditions”




					www.palwatch.org
				




PA rejects “any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula”
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 10, 2021
PLO: No one should criticize PA education for “incitement,” it must be “free from all foreign aid that imposes conditions”


The recent disclosure by the German newspaper Bild of the unpublished EU report on Palestinian textbooks, confirms what Palestinian Media Watch has been reporting for years: The Palestinian curriculum and entire education system is full of incitement to hate and violence, glorification of terror, and denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders (See schoolbook examples below). Accordingly, the EU is being urged to demand a change in the PA’s educational messages to Palestinian children and youth and to reconsider its funding of PA text books and PA teachers’ salaries.


----------



## Hollie

Let's hope so.. 



GOP Lawmakers Seek FBI Investigation into to Terror-Tied BDS Charity 




GOP Lawmakers Seek FBI Investigation Into Terror-Tied BDS Charity
Letter to FBI is latest salvo in expanding congressional investigation into group


Several Republican lawmakers are calling on the FBI to launch an investigation into a charity group that serves as a central cog in the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement and that allegedly has ties to multiple terrorist organizations.

Rep. Tim Burchett (R., Tenn.), a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, asked the FBI on Thursday to investigate the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI), an anti-Israel organization that acts as a central coordinating hub for the BDS movement and its supporting organizations, according to a copy of Burchett's letter exclusively obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Let's hope so..
> 
> 
> 
> GOP Lawmakers Seek FBI Investigation into to Terror-Tied BDS Charity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP Lawmakers Seek FBI Investigation Into Terror-Tied BDS Charity
> Letter to FBI is latest salvo in expanding congressional investigation into group
> 
> 
> Several Republican lawmakers are calling on the FBI to launch an investigation into a charity group that serves as a central cog in the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement and that allegedly has ties to multiple terrorist organizations.
> 
> Rep. Tim Burchett (R., Tenn.), a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, asked the FBI on Thursday to investigate the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI), an anti-Israel organization that acts as a central coordinating hub for the BDS movement and its supporting organizations, according to a copy of Burchett's letter exclusively obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.


Load of hooey. BDS is non partisan. They are not affiliated with anybody.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hope so..
> 
> 
> 
> GOP Lawmakers Seek FBI Investigation into to Terror-Tied BDS Charity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP Lawmakers Seek FBI Investigation Into Terror-Tied BDS Charity
> Letter to FBI is latest salvo in expanding congressional investigation into group
> 
> 
> Several Republican lawmakers are calling on the FBI to launch an investigation into a charity group that serves as a central cog in the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement and that allegedly has ties to multiple terrorist organizations.
> 
> Rep. Tim Burchett (R., Tenn.), a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, asked the FBI on Thursday to investigate the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI), an anti-Israel organization that acts as a central coordinating hub for the BDS movement and its supporting organizations, according to a copy of Burchett's letter exclusively obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey. BDS is non partisan. They are not affiliated with anybody.
Click to expand...


You can sell that to the audience at your madrassah. Not to thinking humans.


----------



## Hollie

I usually scroll past these ''impose international law on islamic terrorists'', threads as they offer a lot of chatter that simply reiterates what we already know. 

It's been decades now and in spite of the Pally terrorists announcing their illegal acts, it's not as though the UN is going to hold them to any standard of international law. It will come as quite a shock to the UN buts acts of Pally islamic terrorism have been occurring under their very nose and they choose to do nothing.  











						Enforce international law on Hamas: How to achieve a (real) ceasefire
					

The US has the ability and responsibility to take the lead on behalf of all trustees of international law who are mandated to uphold, promote and protect foundational principles of human rights.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

Poor, Rashida Tlaib. She puts her foot in her mouth at every opportunity.











						Rashida Tlaib to Her 1.5 Million Twitter Followers: ‘Freedom of Speech Doesn’t Exist for Muslim Women in Congress’ | National Review
					

Freedom of speech also means that people have the freedom to criticize Tlaib and Omar when they say dumb things.




					www.nationalreview.com
				




Earlier today, David Harsanyi observed how Representative Ilhan Omar has a familiar playbook whenever she “says something incendiary and/or idiotic.” It mainly involves smearing her critics and claiming to be the victim of efforts to silence her. Rep. Rashida Tlaib is now picking up the baton after House leadership was finally forced to criticize Omar for her conflation of the U.S., Israel, Hamas, and the Taliban.


----------



## Mindful

Provoking a battle with Israel would provide the perfect way for Hamas to sideline an ageing and corrupt PLO.

Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions – Islam, Christianity and Judaism – to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam.’ It then goes on to state that ‘it is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region’.

At other times it seems to be advocating outright genocide against Jews. For example, it approvingly quotes the prophet Muhammed saying:

_‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say “O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him”. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.’_

Yet Hamad did not lose his position within the organisation. And this month he called on Palestinians in Jerusalem to decapitate Jews. In his public address covered on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza), he declared:

_‘People of Jerusalem, we want you to cut off the heads of the Jews with knives. With your hand, cut their artery from here. A knife costs five shekels [about £1.08]. Buy a knife, sharpen it, put it there, and just cut off [their heads]. It costs just five shekels. With those five shekels, you will humiliate the Jewish state.’_

A long read:









						The Palestinian tragedy
					

Hamas has turned a national liberation movement into a neverending jihad against Israel.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## Hollie

The failed welfare dependent enclave run by the Abbas islamic terrorist syndicate exists due to welfare donations. 




			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/is-the-biden-administration-enabling-pas-pay-for-slay/
		


Is the Biden administration enabling PA's 'pay-for-slay'?

In total, the PA has compensated over 36,000 terrorists and allocates approximately 8% of its budget towards rewarding terrorism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Another of those listed, Muhammad Sabar Ibrahim Suleiman, 16, was in fact a Hamas member and trainee.





Now, DigFind has uncovered a third likely child soldier.




Bashar Ahmad Samour, 17, was hailed by Fatah as a "hero martyr" - language reserved for fighters. His funeral was festooned with Fatah flags, which never happens in Gaza unless the funeral is for a fighter or someone closely associated with the Al Aqsa Brigades.

(full article online)









						A third Gaza child soldier is uncovered
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Excerpts:




> I am definitely not the only one who was arrested for ideas and for speaking out. Many demonstrators were arrested, and Hamas threatened them in order to prevent future actions. One time I was waiting for the release of a friend who had been arrested, and when he came out his face was swollen and bleeding. I barely recognized him.
> 
> Hamas doesn’t make do with thwarting demonstrations; they also prevent cultural events. They shut down parties and performances, they don’t allow concerts, and they spread the notion that artists are heretics. Oud players can perform in public areas, but if an audience gathers around them, that will cause a problem. For Hamas’ leaders, art is part of Western culture and has to be boycotted.
> 
> The prohibitions also relate to private life. Women have to wear a head covering when they go outside. There was a group of women who organized in the social media and demanded to be accepted as they are – but not long ago, a female journalist who was walking outside without a head covering was beaten by Hamas people and taken to the hospital. Of course, the sale of alcohol is forbidden, even to Christians who need it for religious rituals. They are compelled to make wine at home, secretly.



(full article online)









						Gaza stories the Western media NEVER reports
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Something of a roll call showing those used by the Pally terrorists as human shields or currently being groomed as future ''martyrs'' to be sacrificed on the altar of _Islamicide_. 












						The Legal War: Hamas’ War Crimes and Israel’s Right to Self-Defense
					

The deliberate and cynical use by Hamas and Islamic Jihad of their own civilians as human shields, as well as their use of mosques, hospitals, schools, and private houses as weapons storage facilities




					www.jewishpress.com
				








Hamas and PIJ utilized the presence of international media headquarters in the building as a cover for their military activities. As such, they prejudiced and endangered the civilian nature of the building, rendering it a legitimate military target.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last week, Youssef Munayyer wrote a piece in Jewish Currents claiming that the Palestinian expression "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is not at all antisemitic, and not a call fo rethnic cleansing of Jews, and is only a yearning for a state where Jews are treated equally with Arabs. It is, as he quotes, “part of a larger call to see a secular democratic state established in all of historic Palestine.”

This is gaslighting on a massive scale.

Saddam Hussein was explicit when he said, "Palestine is Arab and must be liberated from the river to the sea and all the Zionists who emigrated to the land of Palestine must leave."

Shiite scholar M. Da'ud wrote about the Muslim messianic Mahdi:




----------------------------------
Even this past month, when Palestinian Arabic media reports on Israeli objections to the phrase, they never say that the meaning of the phrase is any different than what Israel says it is. Only in English do we see such apologetics.

No one, when speaking to an Arab audience, even pretends that the phrase means anything but ethnic cleansing of Jews.

And even far socialist media understands this, as this November 2012 Workers Liberty article shows:






(full article online)









						Of course "from the river to the sea" always meant ethnic cleansing of Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The front-page “blood libel” that caused Abraham Foxman and Rabbi Abraham Cooper to cancel their New York Timessubscriptions is increasingly being exposed as deeply flawed.

This week, the Meir Amit Terrorism Information Center disclosed that one of the children featured in the Times under the headline “They Were Only Children” was in fact “Muhammad Sabar Ibrahim Suleiman, 16, whose father was a commander in Hamas’s military terrorist wing.”

“A video issued a few days after the end of the hostilities shows Muhammad Sabar Ibrahim Suleiman wearing an Izz al-Din Qassam Brigades uniform and learning to shoot a machine gun and other weapons. The instructor next to him is also wearing an Izz al-Din Qassam Brigades uniform. Thus despite his young age, he had been recruited by Hamas to its military-terrorist wing,” the Terrorism Information Center report says.

(full article online )





__





						NY Times ‘Innocent,’ ‘Only Children’ Blood Libel Included Trained Terrorist Fighters | United with Israel
					

‘Innocent,’ ‘only children’ in front-page New York Times blood libel included some trained terrorist fighters.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

I am really hoping that some in the Senate will bring this before the Justice Department and at the very least, a suspension of US taxpayer dollars used to finance islamic terrorism can be ground to a halt. 












						PA continues its “Pay-for-Slay” policy in breach of the US Taylor Force Act | PMW Analysis
					

While the administration of United States President Biden has announced the renewal of US aid to the Palestinian Authority, the PA continues unabated its “Pay-for-Slay” in breach of the Taylor Force Act.




					palwatch.org
				




PA continues its “Pay-for-Slay” policy in breach of the US Taylor Force Act​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jun 13, 2021
While the administration of United States President Biden has announced the renewal of US aid to the Palestinian Authority, the PA continues unabated its “Pay-for-Slay” in breach of the Taylor Force Act.

The PA’s “Pay-for-Slay” policy is divided into two broad categories – monthly salary payments to imprisoned terrorists and released terrorists; and monthly allowances to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorists, or so-called “Martyrs”.

In April 2020, Palestinian Media Watch sent a warning letter to all the banks operating in the PA-controlled areas, cautioning them that new Israeli anti-terror legislation prohibited the payment of the terror rewards and that if the banks continued to aid and abet the PA to reward terror they would be subject to potential criminal and civil liability. The banks heeded the warning and ordered the closure of 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Another Hamas Death Cultist looking for some Islamo-street cred. The islamic terrorist leadership of Hamas is always quick to sacrifice the lives of lslamo-minions with acts of war aimed at Israel but not so anxious to personally take one for the gee-had. 














						Senior Fatah official supports Hamas rockets “that put Israel in bomb shelters” | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas Zaki: Islamic Jihad “taught the enemy an important lesson”




					palwatch.org
				




Senior Fatah official supports Hamas rockets “that put Israel in bomb shelters”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 14, 2021




*Abbas Zaki: Islamic Jihad “taught the enemy an important lesson”*​
While it was the terror organizations Hamas and Islamic Jihad that fired over 4,300 rockets into Israel in the May 2021 war, Fatah officials are openly expressing their support for the rocket attacks. Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki, for example, expressed his admiration on different occasions, “blessing the rockets” that forced Israelis to “hide” in bomb shelters:


----------



## Hollie

Uh, oh. Somebody dun’ went and hurt somebody’s feelings. 











						Hamas slams UAE foreign minister over terrorism label
					

Palestinian resistance group Hamas has rejected statements by United Arab Emirates (UAE) Foreign Minister Abdullah bin Zayed linking the group to terrorism, reports Anadolu Agency.    'Bin Zayed's...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





Palestinian resistance group Hamas has rejected statements by United Arab Emirates (UAE) Foreign Minister Abdullah bin Zayed linking the group to terrorism, reports _Anadolu Agency_.

"Bin Zayed's call for the western countries to designate Hamas as a terrorist group runs counter to Arab values," Hamas spokesman Hazem Qasim said on Twitter.


----------



## Hollie

It’s difficult to predict if this will get any traction but I think it’s worth the effort to assign responsibility for acts of Islamic terrorism. 












						Israeli victims of Hamas terror file suit against Qatari banks, charities
					

Shurat HaDin Law Center initiated the legal action on behalf of 24 Israeli families of terror victims, a total of 120 Israeli individual plaintiffs.




					m.jpost.com
				





The Tel Aviv-based Shurat HaDin Law Center filed a legal action on Thursday in the Jerusalem District court against Qatari banks and charities for alleged transfer of funds to Hamas’ military wing during last month’s war against the Jihadi organization in the Gaza Strip. 

Shurat HaDin Law Center initiated the legal action on behalf of 24 Israeli families of terror victims, a total of 120 Israeli individual plaintiffs.


----------



## Hollie

It's called the religion of peace for a reason. 




Hamas MP: It Is the Religious Duty of the Islamic Nation to Help the Palestinians Massacre the Enemy


----------



## Sixties Fan

While it was the terror organizations Hamas and Islamic Jihad that fired over 4,300 rockets into Israel in the May 2021 war, Fatah officials are openly expressing their support for the rocket attacks. Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki, for example, expressed his admiration on different occasions, “blessing the rockets” that forced Israelis to “hide” in bomb shelters:

(full article online)









						Senior Fatah official supports Hamas rockets “that put Israel in bomb shelters” | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas Zaki: Islamic Jihad “taught the enemy an important lesson”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Islam against Jews: "We will sacrifice every last one of us to keep the Jews from being sovereign over Islamic conquered land" ]​​*Fatah before flag march, urges martyrdom-death for Jerusalem:*​
*“We will come out as one line to defend our eternal capital [Jerusalem], and we will not allow our holy city to be harmed. Jerusalem is the rock of our existence, and for its sake any price is paid… We will redeem it with our souls and with all that we have. They will definitely not pass, as the men of Jerusalem are waiting for them.”*​
*“All options are open for our people in order to defend the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Jerusalem the capital… Our people, our leadership, and our [Security] Forces are used to confrontation and are not afraid of dying for the sake of the homeland’s freedom. We will defend our honor and our holy sites on behalf of the Arab and Islamic nations, we will stand firm on our land, and the occupation will certainly pass.”*​
*Fatah secretary urges Palestinians to die for Jerusalem: “What is required of us at this stage, according to the instructions of the Palestinian leadership, is to emphasize the continuation of the popular national activity… The Palestinian people, which has sacrificed thousands of Martyrs, thousands of prisoners and wounded, is prepared to sacrifice thousands of Martyrs, wounded, and prisoners for the sake of Jerusalem”*​

(full article online)









						PA, PLO, and Fatah inciting and promoting violence against Israeli flag march in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah before flag march, urges martyrdom-death for Jerusalem:




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

I don't think anyone expected the islamic terrorist attacks to end with the agreement for a ceasefire weeks ago. 

The gee-had rolls on. 











						25 Fires in Southern Israel Started by Gaza Arson Terror Balloons
					

Dozens of Gaza terrorists also clashed with Israel Defense Forces along the border in advance of the Jerusalem Flag Dance parade.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




In a clear violation of the recent ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, more than two dozen incendiary balloons were launched by Gaza terrorists Tuesday across the border into Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I don't think anyone expected the islamic terrorist attacks to end with the agreement for a ceasefire weeks ago.
> 
> The gee-had rolls on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25 Fires in Southern Israel Started by Gaza Arson Terror Balloons
> 
> 
> Dozens of Gaza terrorists also clashed with Israel Defense Forces along the border in advance of the Jerusalem Flag Dance parade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a clear violation of the recent ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, more than two dozen incendiary balloons were launched by Gaza terrorists Tuesday across the border into Israel.


Israel has continued its violence also.


----------



## emilynghiem

Art__Allm said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does anyone or any nation even begin to negotiate peace with a people who prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's _The Gun and the Olive Branch_(2003) as saying:
> 
> We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan:
> 
> * 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' *
> 
> I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.
> 
> *We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.*[30]
> 
> 
> Samson Option - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?
Click to expand...

You only allow Israeli and Palestinian residents to retain citizenship and live there if they agree to comply with laws, refer to mediation to resolve conflicts by consensus or by separating into independent jurisdictions, and not commit violence or violations against others. If they do not sign agreements to live in peace, they should be barred from living there. This would eliminate political abusers, includng anyone violating rights of persons to be secure in their persons houses effects and rights peaceably to assemble, and to be protected from unreasonable searches, seuzures, deprivation or disparagement of liberty without due process of laws conducted by consent of the people affected.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone expected the islamic terrorist attacks to end with the agreement for a ceasefire weeks ago.
> 
> The gee-had rolls on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25 Fires in Southern Israel Started by Gaza Arson Terror Balloons
> 
> 
> Dozens of Gaza terrorists also clashed with Israel Defense Forces along the border in advance of the Jerusalem Flag Dance parade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a clear violation of the recent ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, more than two dozen incendiary balloons were launched by Gaza terrorists Tuesday across the border into Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has continued its violence also.
Click to expand...

Resistance.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist attacks didn't sit well with the Israelis so it was time to do some remodeling in the Islamo-hood. 













						Israel launches airstrikes at Gaza Strip after militants fire arson balloons
					

Israel’s military said it launched airstrikes at the Gaza Strip on Tuesday night, in response to incendiary balloons fired by militants in the Palestinian territory. The exchange marked the f…




					nypost.com
				





Israel launches airstrikes at Gaza Strip after militants fire arson balloons​By Tamar Lapin
June 15, 2021 | 7:22pm | Updated

Enlarge Image





Explosions light-up the night sky above buildings in Gaza City as Israeli forces shell the Palestinian enclave, early on June 16.AFP via Getty Images


----------



## Hollie

More importantly, Magdi, whats for lunch?​​​Hamas Uses Gaza Civilians As Human Shields; Recent Fighting Was Intended To Help Iran In Nuclear Negotiations​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

[Decades of victimhood education.....because it is the Jews.....it never happened during the Crusades or the Ottoman conquest of the land.......it is the Jews Habibi! ]


The Jerusalem Post reports:



> An attempted combined stabbing and ramming attack was thwarted by the IDF outside the town of Hizma near Jerusalem on Wednesday, the army said in a statement.
> A Palestinian woman who arrived at the scene attempted to run over soldiers who were securing engineering work and then exited her car and tried to stab the soldiers. The terrorist was shot and killed by the soldiers, and one soldier was lightly injured and treated at the scene.
> The terrorist was identified as Mai Afanah, 29, from Abu Dis, by Palestinian media.



While Times of Israel reports that Afanah posted on Facebook hours before the attack that “I don’t have much time left in life.” I couldn't find that in her page.

What I did find was someone who was a big fan of terrorists.

She wrote this tribute to DFLP terrorist Muhammad Khalaf in 2017:

(full article online)









						Woman who tried to run over, stab soldiers this morning was a terrorist fangirl
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [Decades of victimhood education.....because it is the Jews.....it never happened during the Crusades or the Ottoman conquest of the land.......it is the Jews Habibi! ]
> 
> 
> The Jerusalem Post reports:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An attempted combined stabbing and ramming attack was thwarted by the IDF outside the town of Hizma near Jerusalem on Wednesday, the army said in a statement.
> A Palestinian woman who arrived at the scene attempted to run over soldiers who were securing engineering work and then exited her car and tried to stab the soldiers. The terrorist was shot and killed by the soldiers, and one soldier was lightly injured and treated at the scene.
> The terrorist was identified as Mai Afanah, 29, from Abu Dis, by Palestinian media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Times of Israel reports that Afanah posted on Facebook hours before the attack that “I don’t have much time left in life.” I couldn't find that in her page.
> 
> What I did find was someone who was a big fan of terrorists.
> 
> She wrote this tribute to DFLP terrorist Muhammad Khalaf in 2017:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woman who tried to run over, stab soldiers this morning was a terrorist fangirl
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
Click to expand...

What dumbfuck wrote this? Attacks on foreign troops is not terrorism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This news should be up there with "Birds are Israeli spies", etc.   One can bet these toilet paper will eventually be used by the leaders ]


Many Palestinian sites have this news:



> The customs police seized, at dawn today, Tuesday, in the Bethlehem governorate, more than 6 tons of [bathroom] tissues produced by settlements, prohibited from trading in the Palestinian market; in order to protect and support the Palestinian local product.
> 
> In a statement, the police agency said that the competent authority in the Directorate of National Economy approved the seizure of the mentioned quantity and referred the case to the Public Prosecution to complete the necessary legal procedures according to the rules.



It would be a tragedy if Palestinians started using settlement toilet paper. Who knows what awful diseases could be spread by that?









						Palestinians confiscate 6 tons of settlement toilet paper
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

So really, who says that Pally girls have to be viewed as amorphous black mounds cloaked in their Shame Sacks?

They can be useful to the Death Cult of the Pally. 











						PA cult of Martyrdom worship still going strong | PMW Analysis
					

Senior Fatah official praises women for embracing the Palestinian Martyr cult: Palestinian women are like no other, they “view their children as insignificant compared to the homeland… they make sounds of joy for the Martyrs”




					www.palwatch.org
				




PA cult of Martyrdom worship still going strong
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 16, 2021


Senior Fatah official praises women for embracing the Palestinian Martyr cult: Palestinian women are like no other, they “view their children as insignificant compared to the homeland… they make sounds of joy for the Martyrs”

Fatah official kisses bloody shirt of terrorist shooter
Fatah uses death of rioter to promote “Martyrdom” indoctrination
Text on gravestone: “The bride price of [Palestine] is my death as a Martyr”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Firefighters battling four blazes in Eshkol region; fresh fires come after IDF struck Hamas terror targets overnight following airborne arson attacks​
(full article online)









						Incendiary balloons from Gaza spark fires in south for second day in a row
					

Firefighters battling four blazes in Eshkol region; fresh fires come after IDF struck Hamas terror targets overnight following airborne arson attacks




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

It's refreshing to see a politician who will proceed on the principle of merit. While the democrats are anxious to shower the Pally Islamic terrorists with US taxpayer cash, republican Sen. Jim Risch wants some jeans and methods to assure that doesn't happen.












						Sen. Risch Won’t Lift Hold on Palestinian Aid Without Guarantee Taxpayer Money Is Kept From Terrorists
					

Sen. Jim Risch (R., Idaho), ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, says he will not cave to demands from Democrats that he lift a congressional hold on a tranche of Palestinian aid money until he is provided with guarantees that the taxpayer funds will not enrich terrorist...




					freebeacon.com
				




Sen. Jim Risch (R., Idaho), ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, says he will not cave to demands from Democrats that he lift a congressional hold on a tranche of Palestinian aid money until he is provided with guarantees that the taxpayer funds will not enrich terrorist groups, including Iran-backed Hamas.


----------



## Mindful

Tlaib would make a great Hamas spokeshit.















						Rashida Tlaib Proves 'Hamas Caucus' is a Better Name For 'The Squad'
					

Rashida Tlaib's latest lies and untruths blaming Israel and absolving Hamas following the Jerusalem flag march




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Wednesday morning, Palestinian Preventive Security Services arrested 16-year old Amir Taha Muhammad Abu Sharar of Hebron for a Facebook post.

The police forced the child to close his Facebook account.

The Facebook post that offended the Palestinians was published during the conflict in May.

Abu Sharar, who suffers from diabetes, was held in custody for hours before he and his mother made a pledge to close his account and that he would stay away from posting on social media. 

According to the Euro Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, this is only the latest in a wave of similar arrests for things people have posted on social media. Anything that offends the Palestinian government can be prosecuted under their overly broad "Cybercrime Law." 

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority arrests 16 year old for his Facebook post, in a wave of arrests for social media posts that NO ONE IS REPORTING
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now, after the mini-war last month, Palestinians are overwhelmingly supportive of Hamas shooting rockets towards Israeli civilans.

They support Hamas shooting rockets to Jerusalem. 72%think that Hamas’ decision to launch rockets at Israeli cities came "in defense of Jerusalem and al Aqsa Mosque."

If an Israeli court would rule that the Arab squatters at Sheikh Jarrah must evacuate, 68% support Hamas shooting thousands more rockets into Israeli cities. Only 18% support non-violent resistance as a result.

Not surprisingly, Hamas' popularity has soared since the fighting. If the postponed/canceled elections would be held today, Hamas beats Fatah 36% to 19%.

Palestinians support terrorist attacks and they support terror groups.  Western media consistently downplays these results, but they are consistent.

(full article online)









						68% of Palestinians support shooting rockets towards Israeli cities "to defend Sheikh Jarrah"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Site of proposed construction
Regavim

The Regavim movement has sent a letter to Defense Minister Benny Gantz and to the Civil Administration (that has authority over Judea and Samaria), demanding that they take immediate action to enforce Israeli law and prevent the paving of a strategic road that would link two key villages under Palestinian Authority control.

The two villages in question are Battir, south-west of Jerusalem, and Husan, further south-west and just moments away from the haredi city of Beitar, both located in the Gush Etzion bloc in the Judean Hills. The Palestinian Authority is planning to pave a road that runs from Har Gilo, just outside the capital, and links areas of illegal expansion north of Battir all the way south to Husan.

(full article online)









						Illegal Arab construction plans slice through Gush Etzion bloc
					

Palestinian Authority plans to pave road just beyond Jerusalem, exerting de facto control over State-held lands.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> They support Hamas shooting rockets to Jerusalem. 72%think that Hamas’ decision to launch rockets at Israeli cities came "in defense of Jerusalem and al Aqsa Mosque."


Hamas' actions are always defensive.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They support Hamas shooting rockets to Jerusalem. 72%think that Hamas’ decision to launch rockets at Israeli cities came "in defense of Jerusalem and al Aqsa Mosque."
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas' actions are always defensive.
Click to expand...

Nonsense.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Whiners.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here are the posters that Hamas has published for its summer camps. If this isn't recruitment for child soldiers, I don't know what is:




"How can I liberate my land and take my rights?"









(full article online)









						Hamas freely admits it uses summer camps to recruit child soldiers
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

I don’t understand why it is that western nations aren’t much more aggressive about demanding accountability for the welfare money we shower on Islamic terrorists. 







__





						Belguim Investigating Funding to Palestinian NGO Accused of Links to Terrorism - Hamodia.com
					

The Belgian government has opened an investigation into four Palestinian NGOs on the suspicion the funds sent to the humanitarian groups are being



					hamodia.com
				





*NEW YORK* - 
The Belgian government has opened an investigation into four Palestinian NGOs on the suspicion the funds sent to the humanitarian groups are being funneled into the terrorist organization the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).

Belgium’s Minister of Development Meryame Kitir told the country’s Parliament that Belgian aid money, intended for development, may have financed terrorist activities,  according to the news site EU Reporter.

Allegedly, several NGOs were revealed to have “regularly received funding from Western Europe, while operating at least in part as a cover for activities of the Popular Front,” she told members of Parliament.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I don’t understand why it is that western nations aren’t much more aggressive about demanding accountability for the welfare money we shower on Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belguim Investigating Funding to Palestinian NGO Accused of Links to Terrorism - Hamodia.com
> 
> 
> The Belgian government has opened an investigation into four Palestinian NGOs on the suspicion the funds sent to the humanitarian groups are being
> 
> 
> 
> hamodia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NEW YORK* -
> The Belgian government has opened an investigation into four Palestinian NGOs on the suspicion the funds sent to the humanitarian groups are being funneled into the terrorist organization the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).
> 
> Belgium’s Minister of Development Meryame Kitir told the country’s Parliament that Belgian aid money, intended for development, may have financed terrorist activities,  according to the news site EU Reporter.
> 
> Allegedly, several NGOs were revealed to have “regularly received funding from Western Europe, while operating at least in part as a cover for activities of the Popular Front,” she told members of Parliament.


NGOs (non governmental organizations) are not affiliated wirh any government or political parties.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t understand why it is that western nations aren’t much more aggressive about demanding accountability for the welfare money we shower on Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belguim Investigating Funding to Palestinian NGO Accused of Links to Terrorism - Hamodia.com
> 
> 
> The Belgian government has opened an investigation into four Palestinian NGOs on the suspicion the funds sent to the humanitarian groups are being
> 
> 
> 
> hamodia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NEW YORK* -
> The Belgian government has opened an investigation into four Palestinian NGOs on the suspicion the funds sent to the humanitarian groups are being funneled into the terrorist organization the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).
> 
> Belgium’s Minister of Development Meryame Kitir told the country’s Parliament that Belgian aid money, intended for development, may have financed terrorist activities,  according to the news site EU Reporter.
> 
> Allegedly, several NGOs were revealed to have “regularly received funding from Western Europe, while operating at least in part as a cover for activities of the Popular Front,” she told members of Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> NGOs (non governmental organizations) are not affiliated wirh any government or political parties.
Click to expand...

Except when they’re affiliated with governmental or political parties.

You might want to proofread those rare sentences you stumble through.


----------



## Hollie

It’s importantly to understand that these are cartoon characters who are dressed up in military style uniforms.​​Commander in Islamic Jihad Al-Quds Brigades: Tunnels Will Be Graveyard of Soldiers of the Occupation​​


----------



## Hollie

Our US tax dollars at work. Financing Islamic terrorism.







A Palestinian Hamas-hired civil servant displays U.S. Dollar banknotes after receiving her salary paid by Qatar, in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip December 7, 2018.
(photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here are photos from the Hamas Al Qassam Brigades terrorist website showing children as young as nine years old queuing up to sign up for terror camp to be recruited into Hamas.

According to Hamas:


> These camps aim to ignite the flame of jihad in the generation of liberation, sow Islamic values and prepare the expected victory army for the liberation of Palestine, God willing.



Notice how Hamas uses a submachine gun as a prop to attract recruits. 





(full article online)









						Photos of pre-teens registering for Hamas terrorist summer camp
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is well known that Hamas has a major headquarters in the basement of the Shifa hospital. This strongly indicates that Hamas has tunnels leading from the hospital itself to the rest of the "metro" network. (Wikipedia confirms that Shifa is at the end of Wehda Street.)
The NYT pretends to be evenhanded in discussing whether war crimes  were committed:



> Rights experts said the use of such powerful weapons in a dense urban environment put civilian lives at risk and was a possible war crime. And if Hamas installed military facilities underneath residential areas, that too is prohibited under the laws of war.



Based on just the reporting in that article, it is clear that Israel did not commit any war crimes. Most of the buildings along the route did not collapse, and clearly the Israeli military commanders did not expect the Abul Ouf building to be destroyed. To be a war crime, it must be determined that the military knew it was likely that there would be unacceptable civilian casualties, which is clearly not the case here. 

And if it is known that Hamas has crucial military targets literally underneath civilians, it does not mean those targets are protected under international law. They can be targeted, carefully, in ways that minimize the danger to civilians - which is exactly what Israel did.  

(full article online)









						Hamas is solely responsible for the deaths along Al Wehda street
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

A couple of photos reveal an inconvenient truth about the history of a society that grooms generation after generation of sociopaths. 












						Jaffe: History - An Inconvenient Truth to the Palestinian Narrative
					

This article responds on some common misconceptions recently reported regarding the recent conflict and welcomes Bassem Eid (Palestinian Civil Rights activist) into Orange County, Palestinian activities.




					voiceofoc.org
				










A press photographer pictures the damage to the Hotel Park in Netanya in 2002.







A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up in the hotel killing 30 people (photo credit: REUTERS)

The above photos depict but a few examples Palestinian terrorist attacks against civilians in Israel that led to the construction of a security wall.  Terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians coupled with the chant “From the River to the Sea” promotes the stated objective of the Palestinians’ elected government (Hamas) to destroy Israel and the Jewish people.


----------



## Hollie

Say it, brotha’​​Kuwaiti Writer Ahmad Sarraf: Palestinian Rights Will Only Be Restored Once We Start Respecting Human Rights; In Every Arab And Muslim There Is A Little ISIS Lying Dormant​


----------



## Hollie

There's always a next generation of sociopaths in training in that part of the world where children are raised to be a disposable commodity. 













						Hamas Freely Admits It Uses Summer Camps to Recruit Child Soldiers
					

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. While anti-Israel activists often talk about Palestinian rights, …




					www.algemeiner.com
				








Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter.
While anti-Israel activists often talk about Palestinian rights, they usually ignore the rights of Palestinian children to grow up free from terror indoctrination and incitement to murder. Under both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, children have been abused, brainwashed, and convinced that the path to martyrdom and national glory is murdering Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[When is "soon"?  
 Why hold on vaccinating the population when the leaders got their shots already? ]

Despite getting thousands of doses from Israel as well as vaccines from Russia and as part of the COVAX initiative, the PA has been critical of Israel and has accused it of holding up the transfer of vaccines.

At the same time, the PA has acknowledged it provided COVID-19 vaccines to senior PA officials and to the Jordanian royal family.
(full article online)









						PA cancels COVID-19 vaccine deal with Israel
					

PA cancels agreement to receive doses of Pfizer vaccine from Israel due to the fact that many of them are due to expire.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Which protest remembers the Palestinian children killed by Hamas rockets that fell short?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

In driving the spike in antisemitism, Palestinianism is opening up a posthumous Nazi front against the Jews.

If this sounds outlandish and monstrous, it is. But the evidence suggests that it is nevertheless an all-too-realistic description of what is now taking place.

When Hitler was defeated, the war against the Jewish people seemed to be over. But it wasn’t. Western antisemitism merely went underground, waiting to be released again as the natural order of things.

And in one part of the world, the war against the Jews was about to enter a new phase. Under the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Arabs of British Mandatory Palestine had become Hitler’s legion in the Middle East. Fusing Nazism and Islamic fundamentalism, al-Husseini incited the Palestinian Arab masses to murderous pogroms with the lie that the Jews were about to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque.

Exactly the same rhetoric emanates today from the Palestinian Authority and incited the recent terror upsurge by Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. The PA, led by the Holocaust-denier Mahmoud Abbas, who on his own account hero-worships al-Husseini, pumps out Nazi-themed antisemitism week in, week out, brain-washing its people into murderous hatred against the Jews.

Furthermore, both the Palestinian cause and Palestinian “identity” itself are based on the attempted theft and appropriation of the historic homeland and history of the Jews—the indigenous people of the land of Israel.

So it’s not just that the demonization and delegitimization of Israel are fundamentally anti-Jew. What’s not properly understood is that Palestinianism is antisemitism. Western liberals who support the Palestinian cause are supporting a profoundly anti-Jewish agenda not only to steal the land of the Jewish people, but to wipe out their history and thus their identity.

(full article online)









						Palestinianism Is Opening Up a Posthumous Nazi Front Against Jews
					

The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, meets with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Photo: German Federal Archives via Wikimedia Commons. …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

03-Nov-15: What do they mean when the Palestinian Arabs say they oppose terror?
					

The article we discuss is here   Over at Mosaic Magazine , they published a long analytic piece yesterday by Dr Daniel Polisar entitled " ...




					thisongoingwar.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> 03-Nov-15: What do they mean when the Palestinian Arabs say they oppose terror?
> 
> 
> The article we discuss is here   Over at Mosaic Magazine , they published a long analytic piece yesterday by Dr Daniel Polisar entitled " ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thisongoingwar.blogspot.com


"
 and the things that lead to an atmosphere 


> in which young people choose whether to wake up in the morning, pull a knife from the family kitchen, and go out in search of martyrdom."



Daily doses of textbooks, media and social media showing the Israelis as evil and thieves is what continues to lead the Palestinians from Gaza, Judea, Samaria and those living anywhere in the world, to believe that "they" are the victims and not the victimizers.

They are victims of endless Islamic teachings where the Jews have no place in the world but under a Muslim foot.

They are really the victimizers for wanting to destroy Israel and having no conscience of wrong doing each time they blow themselves up, use knives, molotov cocktails, etc in order to murder Jews or destroy anything in front of them.

This is action reserved only against Jews, as the Arabs now knows as Palestinians never cared to behave this way against the Crusaders, the Ottomans or even the British .  And even less against the Jordanians who got TransJordan in 1922 and Judea and Samaria in 1948 or Egyptians who had Gaza in their hands from 1948 to 1967.


To other Muslims, they are brothers.

To the Jews......they are their victims.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Instead, based on the responses, the PSR poll question is apparently this: Should those payments "_to the families of martyrs and prisoners _[be]_ based on need assessment and number of family members rather than on the act committed by the martyr or the number of years in jail"_? 


Payments according to how sickening the act of terror was and how long the prison sentence, assuming the terrorists were caught, tried and convicted, is how it works today. Adjusting it to take account of the terrorist family's actual needs is the far-fetched proposal offered by the poll question. 


The result is absolutely (and disturbingly) clear: 70% are opposed to the suggested change. They're happy with how things are today - more dead and injured Israelis means more cash from the chronically insolvent PA budget and they see nothing wrong with that.  Abbas and his cronies, unable to build or run their own education system, their own decent health-care system, their own industrial infrastructure to create employment and entrepreneurship opportunities for a society with a staggering unemployment rate of 38% among the crucial youth cohort aged between 18 and 29 (2019 data) - instead simply spend the foreign cash the PA gets from foolish government officials in Europe and elsewhere. It's an easy decision.
*A significant footnote*: The 2019 unemployment rate (official Palestinian Authority figures) among that same youth cohort in *Gaza* stood at an *unbelievable 63%*. It's a piece of information to keep in mind when we see coverage of masses of Gazans being herded to protest rallies and wildly violent "protests" in the vicinity of the border with Israel.  
There's much to ponder in these findings, perhaps the most significant part of it being that Palestinian Arab leadership is neither building a credible alternative to peace with Israel nor doing anything to moderate their society's passion for war, confrontation and self-delusion.

It's a depressing picture for anyone who gives a damn.

(full article online)









						16-Jun-21: What do the Palestinian Arabs think now?
					

Image Source: Red Cross There's unique value to Palestinian Arab polls of Palestinian Arab public opinion.  They often come with internal co...




					thisongoingwar.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist version of a ceasefire


----------



## Hollie

The linked article offers some insight into islamic terrorist target selection by the Israeli military. The IDF poicy of minimizing civilian casualties is well documented and stands in contrast to the islamic terrorist policy of attempting to further those Islamic casualties using human shields.









__





						Other Voices: Tech and ethics against terror
					





					www.msn.com
				




The defense forces have a target database so that when they get a “lead” about the location of a particular militant, that information is evaluated by legal analyst to consider whether the destruction of the targeted militant would entail destruction of noncombatants. The operation is approved or disapproved based on the possible casualties of innocent civilians.


One of the common Hamas practices is to attack from safehouses located in residential buildings. Another common practice is to use commercial buildings, medical facilities, schools and even mosques for storage of rocket launchers and communication centers. In all cases before a building is hit, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sends cell phone messages to residents and gives them a “heads up” up of a forthcoming attack. Then warning shots are fired off to scare away those who ignored or did not get the message. And only then is the building destroyed and even then, the destruction is such that the building falls straight down rather than explodes in all directions thereby minimizing collateral damage and saving innocent lives.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Pfizer vaccine fiasco reveals so much about the Palestinian leadership as well as about the "human rights" groups and activists who pretend to be "pro-Palestinian" but truly aren't.

The Palestinian Authority had agreed with Israel to obtain over 1 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine now, and not to have to wait until September to get them directly from Pfizer. The agreement was signed and the PA knew perfectly well that Israel would first transfer the vaccines that were closest to expiring, and the exact expiration dates of the first doses. 

As the NYT reports:



> An Israeli official, who asked to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said that the initial batch of doses would expire at the start of July and said that would give enough time for Palestinian health workers to administer them.
> 
> The official added that the authority had been aware of the vaccines’ expiry date before agreeing to their delivery, and said the authority had scrapped the deal only because it had been criticized by Palestinians for agreeing to receive vaccines perceived to be of poor quality.
> 
> The official also said that none of the remaining doses would have been delivered less than two weeks before their expiry date.



Tens of thousands of Palestinians could have received their first doses in the next two weeks. 

This should be considered a debacle by any civilized society. Thousands can get sick and scores could die because of this decision by the PA. 

But, incredibly, the only inquiry that Palestinians are demanding is one into how the PA almost bought vaccines that they claim were of "inferior" quality. _Terrorist media is reporting about how the PA is incompetent - not for trying initially to fight COVID but for making a deal with Israel. The PA, naturally, has to defend its "honor" by canceling the deal. _

Keep in mind that the PA eagerly accepts Russia's Sputnik vaccine which did not have anywhere near the same quality trials as the Pfizer or Astra-Zeneca vaccines did. 

(full article online)









						Vaccine debacle: Palestinian leaders and "human rights" NGOs hate Israel more than they value the lives of Palestinians
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_

*(COMMENT)*

I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:




			
				EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
			
		

> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.



The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.

Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?






_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Sixties Fan

The European Union contributes millions of euros every year to the Palestinian Authority’s Ministry of Education. Included in these donations, is aid for the construction of schools. Instead of turning the schools in to safe havens for education and for promoting and fostering peace, the PA uses them as a means to implement its systematic indoctrination of the kids. The Elementary School for Girls in Hawara, built with donations from the European Commission, is just one example.

A recent exhibition in the school highlighted three elements of the PA’s indoctrination:

*






Glorifying violence:*

The picture featured in a dominant place of the exhibit displayed a rocket with “Ayyash 250” written on it. The reference is to one of the 4,300 rockets Hamas and other Gaza-based terrorists fired at Israel in the
recent war, indiscriminately targeting Israel’s civilian population.


[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, June 14, 2021]

*The “return” of the so-called Palestinian refugees:*






The exhibit itself was dedicated to reinforcing the myth that millions of Palestinians will, one day flood Israel as part of what the Palestinians refer to as the “Right of return”.

The image shows a decoration in the shape of the PA map of “Palestine,” and next to it a key representing the Palestinian refugees’ “right of return.”

*Text on sign in bottom right corner:* “The procession of freedom –
*My homeland is from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River. Our return is near*, and we have already begun to pack our belongings.”

[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, June 14, 2021]

The EU purportedly supports the PA as part of an effort to promote peace between the Palestinians and Israel. Brainwashing children with pictures of missiles, a false reality in which Israel does not exist, and a narrative which will never be realized unless Israel agrees to commit national suicide, does not contribute to peace building efforts.

The fact that this kind of indoctrination is taking place in a EU-funded school should be cause for concern.

(full article online)


----------



## Sixties Fan

What it means is that 10% or more Arabs can live under Ottoman or Jordanian Muslim rule without complaining and resorting to any terror.

Under Israel, aka Jews......, anything goes to "Liberate the land" for Muslims.

And.....it is about keeping the charade of being occupied by the "supremacist Jews" who "came from Europe", taking land from the "Palestinians" and wanting to ethnically cleanse the Arabs from "their land", etc, etc, etc


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.
> 
> Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...

It is Israel's policy to ethnically cleans Palestinians from area C and to move them into the bantustans.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> What it means is that 10% or more Arabs can live under Ottoman or Jordanian Muslim rule without complaining and resorting to any terror.
> 
> Under Israel, aka Jews......, anything goes to "Liberate the land" for Muslims.
> 
> And.....it is about keeping the charade of being occupied by the "supremacist Jews" who "came from Europe", taking land from the "Palestinians" and wanting to ethnically cleanse the Arabs from "their land", etc, etc, etc



There is a valid case to be made that for 1,400 years, the religious authoritarianism which is Islamism has oppressed populations. It is the pious Moslem who believes that theocratic totalitarianism is the natural alternative to the secular institutions of Western representative democracy. How does anyone reconcile the ascendancy of the West and its representative democracy, largely being shaped around the principles of equal rights, personal freedoms and personal responsibility vs. the history of Islamic majority nations that are based upon the principles of patriarchy, derision, learned hatreds and promotion of fear societies?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.
> 
> Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's policy to ethnically cleans Palestinians from area C and to move them into the bantustans.
Click to expand...


Your silly cut and paste slogans are a hoot.

Do you flail your Hamas issued Pom Poms when you recite their Charter?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.
> 
> Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's policy to ethnically cleans Palestinians from area C and to move them into the bantustans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly cut and paste slogans are a hoot.
> 
> Do you flail your Hamas issued Pom Poms when you recite their Charter?
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.
> 
> Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's policy to ethnically cleans Palestinians from area C and to move them into the bantustans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly cut and paste slogans are a hoot.
> 
> Do you flail your Hamas issued Pom Poms when you recite their Charter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailer cuts and pastes another of his usual slogans.


----------



## Hollie

Israeli provocation. 

The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf (_land Arabs-Moslems presume is an entitlement for their exclusive use as a promise from the Arab warlord who invented the religion.)














						Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue
					

The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue​The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.




A masked Palestinian supporter of the Al-Nasir Salah Al-Din Brigades prepares incendiary balloons to launch across the border fence east of Gaza city towards Israel, on June 16, 2021, east of Gaza City in Gaza. - Fatima Shbair/Getty Images


----------



## Hollie

Somewhere, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo-hit. 












						Hamas unloads on Ilhan Omar — for comparing terror group to the US
					

Ilhan Omar is getting heat from all sides now. After get criticized by some fellow Democrats after comparing the US and Israel to Hamas, the terror group chimed in to denounce her words.




					nypost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Just where was this song, and all others like it, against the Ottoman Empire or the Egyptian control of Gaza or the Jordanian control of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem?  

And it is all about being against the Children of Zion.
Wait!!!!  Jews are not indigenous of the land, but they are being called Children of Zion?

What a confused people, the Arabs are ]










						Song portrays conflict between Israel and Palestinians as between Allah and Jews | PMW Translations
					

This song “Where are the millions?” is famous for being used to motivate Palestinians to take to the streets and wage “intifada,”




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

THE PA – PLO have led the world in fine-tuning multiple means of terror that target civilians. These include airplane hijackings, suicide bombings, knifings, drive-by shootings, car-rammings and more, and have created an entire lexicon of different words to cover up their being terrorists. Among the PA terms for terror are, "amaliya" = "operation," "muqawama" = “resistance,” intifada" = "shake up",  "kifah" = "struggle" and "fidaa" = "self-sacrifice." And of course "silmiya sha’abiya" = “peaceful popular” murder with “daggers and knives,” which the PA leadership has unanimously agreed upon for now.

This Palestinese, including the hate speech, terror promoting videos, euphemisms, claims of victimhood and more, has proven to be a successful language for PA leaders. They can have their terror wave bringing international attention and increased internal popularity for the leaders, while at the same time can claim innocence to the international community. The PA, as it has done in the past, will then blame Israel for causing the victimized Palestinians to “spontaneously” turn to violence, and many world leaders will dutifully line up to blame Israel for Palestinian terror.

The Palestinian language has many innocent sounding euphemisms to hide its arsenal of terror and mask its strategies. Unless Israeli leaders understand who is behind Palestinian terror and arrest, prosecute and imprison those at the top of the terror pyramid – not only those wielding the knives and guns – the cycles of Palestinian terror will continue.

(full article online)









						PMW JPost op-ed: Israel must learn to speak 'Palestinese' to punish PA terror perpetrators | PMW Analysis
					

The answer is that there is only one PA message and the problem is that Israeli leaders, the media and the international community have not mastered the Palestinian language – “Palestinese.”




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The recent disclosure by the German newspaper _Bild_ of the unpublished EU report on Palestinian textbooks, confirms what Palestinian Media Watch has been reporting for years: The Palestinian curriculum and entire education system is full of incitement to hate and violence, glorification of terror, and denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders (See schoolbook examples below). Accordingly, the EU is being urged to demand a change in the PA’s educational messages to Palestinian children and youth and to reconsider its funding of PA text books and PA teachers’ salaries.

In this context, the following recent statement by PA Minister of Education Marwan Awratani is particularly significant because it proves in all clarity the PA’s uncompromising stand and unwillingness to change any of the contents in its schoolbooks. In fact, the PA doesn’t want any funding for education if it comes with conditions *or demands from the donors *regarding the content:



> Headline: “The [PA] minister of education: We are rejecting all conditional funding that targets our Palestinian curricula”
> “*[PA] Minister of Education Marwan Awratani emphasized that the [PA] government and Ministry of Education oppose any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula, which constitute a sovereign matter of the highest order* (refers to international demands to remove incitement from PA schoolbooks as a condition of funding -Ed.).
> He said that his ministry is *working to find ways of national self-funding* in order to build the schools.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 15, 2021]



(full article online )









						PA rejects “any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula” | PMW Analysis
					

PLO: No one should criticize PA education for “incitement,” it must be “free from all foreign aid that imposes conditions”




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Endless, sad, loss of life.  For a land which they cannot allow the Jews to have ]

_Images and text posted on the Facebook page of Fatah Central Committee member Tawfiq Tirawi_






*Posted text: *“Fatah Movement Central Committee member [and Fatah Commissioner of Popular Organizations] Tawfiq Tirawi kisses the blood and clothes of heroic Martyr Abdallah Khaled Daabas (i.e., terrorist, shot at Israeli security forces), a resident of the Tulkarem district. We pray to Allah that he will increase our days so we will welcome him when he arrives (i.e., when Israel returns his body).
May Allah have mercy on the pure-hearted Martyrs”

_The image shows Fatah Central Committee member Tawfiq Tirawi kissing the bloody shirt of terrorist Abdallah Khaled Daabas.

(full article online)









						Fatah official kisses bloody shirt of terrorist shooter | PMW Translations
					

Fatah Central Committee member posts picture of himself kissing the blood-stained shirt of a “heroic Martyr” who opened fire on Israeli security forces




					www.palwatch.org
				



_


----------



## Sixties Fan

PA says it wants to renegotiate terms of vaccine deal with Israel, Pfizer
					

Palestinians return 90,000 doses already sent by Jerusalem, which had planned to deliver over 1 million before PA canceled agreement




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israeli provocation.
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf (_land Arabs-Moslems presume is an entitlement for their exclusive use as a promise from the Arab warlord who invented the religion.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue
> 
> 
> The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue​The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A masked Palestinian supporter of the Al-Nasir Salah Al-Din Brigades prepares incendiary balloons to launch across the border fence east of Gaza city towards Israel, on June 16, 2021, east of Gaza City in Gaza. - Fatima Shbair/Getty Images





Hollie said:


> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf _


Indeed, this is not about religion. It is about colonialism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.
> 
> Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's policy to ethnically cleans Palestinians from area C and to move them into the bantustans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly cut and paste slogans are a hoot.
> 
> Do you flail your Hamas issued Pom Poms when you recite their Charter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailer cuts and pastes another of his usual slogans.
Click to expand...

What is your infatuation with Hamas?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The recent disclosure by the German newspaper _Bild_ of the unpublished EU report on Palestinian textbooks, confirms what Palestinian Media Watch has been reporting for years: The Palestinian curriculum and entire education system is full of incitement to hate and violence, glorification of terror, and denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders (See schoolbook examples below). Accordingly, the EU is being urged to demand a change in the PA’s educational messages to Palestinian children and youth and to reconsider its funding of PA text books and PA teachers’ salaries.
> 
> In this context, the following recent statement by PA Minister of Education Marwan Awratani is particularly significant because it proves in all clarity the PA’s uncompromising stand and unwillingness to change any of the contents in its schoolbooks. In fact, the PA doesn’t want any funding for education if it comes with conditions *or demands from the donors *regarding the content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Headline: “The [PA] minister of education: We are rejecting all conditional funding that targets our Palestinian curricula”
> “*[PA] Minister of Education Marwan Awratani emphasized that the [PA] government and Ministry of Education oppose any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula, which constitute a sovereign matter of the highest order* (refers to international demands to remove incitement from PA schoolbooks as a condition of funding -Ed.).
> He said that his ministry is *working to find ways of national self-funding* in order to build the schools.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 15, 2021]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA rejects “any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PLO: No one should criticize PA education for “incitement,” it must be “free from all foreign aid that imposes conditions”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
Click to expand...

 Palestinian Media Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization. Not a reliable source.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  WHERE are the Palestinians?
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I was just reading a *News Article by By Hugh Fitzgerald* - on June 20, 2021- in which he said something that startled me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Hugh Fitzgererald • JihadWatch’s Mystery Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the West Bank, 90% of the Arabs live in Areas A and B. In Area A, the PA has complete control of daily life. In Area B, the PA has complete control of all aspects of the Arab inhabitants lives except for security. *It is only in Area C, where Israelis retain control, that fewer than 10% of the West Bank Arabs live*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way the Palestinians moan - groan, and complain • I was under the false impression that the confrontations and hostile incidents with Israeli Security were emanating from 90% of the population.  But instead, Area "C" only represents less than 10% of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank.  And in the Gaza Strip, there is Zero Israeli Security.
> 
> Only < 10%...  I'm still trying to digest that.  What does it mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's policy to ethnically cleans Palestinians from area C and to move them into the bantustans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your silly cut and paste slogans are a hoot.
> 
> Do you flail your Hamas issued Pom Poms when you recite their Charter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailer cuts and pastes another of his usual slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your infatuation with Hamas?
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli provocation.
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf (_land Arabs-Moslems presume is an entitlement for their exclusive use as a promise from the Arab warlord who invented the religion.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue
> 
> 
> The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue​The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A masked Palestinian supporter of the Al-Nasir Salah Al-Din Brigades prepares incendiary balloons to launch across the border fence east of Gaza city towards Israel, on June 16, 2021, east of Gaza City in Gaza. - Fatima Shbair/Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, this is not about religion. It is about colonialism.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Hamas charter has 92 instances of 'Allah'. Your madrassah never identified that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The recent disclosure by the German newspaper _Bild_ of the unpublished EU report on Palestinian textbooks, confirms what Palestinian Media Watch has been reporting for years: The Palestinian curriculum and entire education system is full of incitement to hate and violence, glorification of terror, and denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders (See schoolbook examples below). Accordingly, the EU is being urged to demand a change in the PA’s educational messages to Palestinian children and youth and to reconsider its funding of PA text books and PA teachers’ salaries.
> 
> In this context, the following recent statement by PA Minister of Education Marwan Awratani is particularly significant because it proves in all clarity the PA’s uncompromising stand and unwillingness to change any of the contents in its schoolbooks. In fact, the PA doesn’t want any funding for education if it comes with conditions *or demands from the donors *regarding the content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Headline: “The [PA] minister of education: We are rejecting all conditional funding that targets our Palestinian curricula”
> “*[PA] Minister of Education Marwan Awratani emphasized that the [PA] government and Ministry of Education oppose any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula, which constitute a sovereign matter of the highest order* (refers to international demands to remove incitement from PA schoolbooks as a condition of funding -Ed.).
> He said that his ministry is *working to find ways of national self-funding* in order to build the schools.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 15, 2021]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA rejects “any conditional funding by any source that targets our Palestinian curricula” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PLO: No one should criticize PA education for “incitement,” it must be “free from all foreign aid that imposes conditions”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization. Not a reliable source.
Click to expand...

Try paying attention. You were given a specific citation.

Official Palestinian Authority TV  | Feb 21, 2021

Hurt feelings, indeed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli provocation.
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf (_land Arabs-Moslems presume is an entitlement for their exclusive use as a promise from the Arab warlord who invented the religion.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue
> 
> 
> The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue​The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A masked Palestinian supporter of the Al-Nasir Salah Al-Din Brigades prepares incendiary balloons to launch across the border fence east of Gaza city towards Israel, on June 16, 2021, east of Gaza City in Gaza. - Fatima Shbair/Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, this is not about religion. It is about colonialism.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the Hamas groupie claims ''_this is not about religion. It is about colonialism_.''

Hamas leader: 'God has decreed we must attack Tel Aviv'​
June 18, 2021


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli provocation.
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf (_land Arabs-Moslems presume is an entitlement for their exclusive use as a promise from the Arab warlord who invented the religion.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue
> 
> 
> The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue​The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A masked Palestinian supporter of the Al-Nasir Salah Al-Din Brigades prepares incendiary balloons to launch across the border fence east of Gaza city towards Israel, on June 16, 2021, east of Gaza City in Gaza. - Fatima Shbair/Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, this is not about religion. It is about colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Hamas charter has 92 instances of 'Allah'. Your madrassah never identified that?
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli provocation.
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf (_land Arabs-Moslems presume is an entitlement for their exclusive use as a promise from the Arab warlord who invented the religion.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue
> 
> 
> The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel again bombs Hamas targets in Gaza as fire balloons continue​The flare-up could threaten last month's cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A masked Palestinian supporter of the Al-Nasir Salah Al-Din Brigades prepares incendiary balloons to launch across the border fence east of Gaza city towards Israel, on June 16, 2021, east of Gaza City in Gaza. - Fatima Shbair/Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pallys would be attacking whomever was living on land they thought to be _waqf _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, this is not about religion. It is about colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Hamas charter has 92 instances of 'Allah'. Your madrassah never identified that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
Click to expand...


Nice duck. Your Hamas heroes appeal to God directly contradicts your failed propaganda and false statements. Why not stick to cutting and pasting YouTube videos?


Might I ask that your Pom Pom flailing for Hamas / Iranian mullocrats be accompanied by some new slogans?


----------



## Hollie

The really is no deep thought required to understand that rewarding islamic terorists with an unending welfare fraud fund will perpetuate islamic terrorism. 







			https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/outcry-over-uk-funding-for-palestinian-school-books-that-incite-terrorism-1.517876
		


Outcry over UK funding for Palestinian school books that ‘incite terrorism’​Fresh calls for British government to act in wake of damning EU report on the Palestinian Authority curriculum

Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi pictured in the 'Arabic Language' textbook, which celebrates her as a 'martyr' Image: The Arabic Language 5/11





The publication of a damning European Union report on Palestinian school textbooks confirming they incite violence against Israel and promote antisemitism has prompted renewed calls for the UK to stop funding the teachers who produce the material.


----------



## Hollie

This is certainly a moment where whomever is in charge of the Biden administration could make a decision not to reward islamic terrorism.











						Will Biden reopen PLO offices while PLO member organization glorifies its bloody terror attacks as “acts of heroism”? | PMW Analysis
					

”We recall the glorious list of the thousands of Martyrs who sacrificed their lives and their blood under the flag of Palestine, the flag of the DFLP”




					palwatch.org
				




Will Biden reopen PLO offices while PLO member organization glorifies its bloody terror attacks as “acts of heroism”?​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 21, 2021

*DFLP: ”We recall the glorious list of the thousands of Martyrs who sacrificed their lives and their blood under the flag of Palestine, the flag of the DFLP”*​
*Fatah spokesman: Fatah “lit its torch to illuminate the path to independence and soaked its path in the blood of its leaders… the path has not yet reached its end… the real victory will be achieved when our land is liberated”*​
While the Biden administration is planning to reopen the PLO offices in Washington DC, one of the PLO member factions – the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) terror organization – is openly glorifying its bloody terror attacks as “acts of heroism.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Minister of Health, Mai Al-Kaila, gave a statement to the official Palestinian news agency Wafa with her spin on the vaccine debacle this weekend.

She accidentally revealed that even if it is true that the expiration date on the first batch was the end of June, the Palestinian Authority had the ability to use all of the vaccines well before their expiration.

In fact, they could all have been used by today.

Al Kaila said that the Ministry of Health has the ability to vaccinate 60,000 citizens daily.

Since the first batch of 90,000 vaccines that so upset the Palestinians were, according to them, expiring by the end of the month, then the Ministry of Health could have used all of them between Friday, Saturday and Sunday easily. 

By today, 90,000 people could have had their first shots, with over a week to spare for the expiration date. And no one says that the vaccine is less effective on the last days before expiration than when they are brand new from the factory.

(full article online)









						The Palestinian Authority could have finished inoculating 90,000 people with the returned vaccines by TODAY
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

To Palestinians, if the truth is inconvenient, you might as well lie. 

Before the Palestinian elections that never happened this year, the Fatah party was split into three components. One of them is the Democratic Reform Movement, which is headed by Mohammed Dahlan, who was placed in exile in the UAE by his rival Mahmoud Abbas.

The Dahlan party is attacking the Palestinian Authority - not for spurning perfectly good vaccines for hundreds of  thousands of people, but for initially reaching a deal with Israel to bring in "expired vaccines."

But it is not enough to lie about the vaccines being expired, as many "pro-Palestinian activists" are claiming. That isn't dramatic enough. The Dahlan party is claiming that the vaccines are actually dangerous.

Ghassan Jadallah, the local leader of the Democratic Reform Movement, wrote on his Facebook page that the mainstream Fatah movement is hiding the person "who almost killed thousands of our citizens in an expired vaccine deal"

An article in the party's mouthpiece said that "if a healthy person is vaccinated, the health consequences will be catastrophic and dire, because the vaccination is not valid and the vaccine is expired, .... entering into a journey of suffering and misery that will end in death."

Another article in that organization's news mouthpiece said that the deal "endangered the lives of half a million Palestinian citizens at risk of death, in the largest attempted murder in Palestinian history."

A cartoon illustrating this last article shows a bullet inside the syringe.

(full article online)









						Palestinian faction (Dahlan) claims that "expired" vaccines would have killed half a million Palestinians
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Yahya '_'I need more children for martyrdom_' Sinwar is having a very bad day. Apparently, his various, bellicose demands before the UN were not met with enough people scurrying around, falling over themselves looking to bend and scrape before the Iranian errand boy.











						Hamas UN Gaza talks break down as Sinwar calls for popular resistance
					

Hamas talks with the UN held Monday failed, its Gaza leader told reporters as he rejected Israeli provocations.




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas talks with the United Nations held on Monday have failed, its Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar told reporters yesterday as he accused Israel of blackmail, calling for popular resistance and a meeting of all the Palestinian factions.

“This was a bad meeting and it was totally not positive,” Sinwar said. “The meeting with the UN delegation was thorough and they listened to us. But unfortunately, there are no indications of intentions to solve the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip.



Oh, by the way, dear, when that meeting of all the Iranian controlled Shia wannabes is arranged, post those GPS coordinates. There's a good fellow.


----------



## Hollie

Sacrifices must be made for the gee-had. 













						At Least 8 Gazan Children Featured on NY Times Front Page were Killed by Terrorist Rockets
					

At least eight of the children whose names were featured by the New York Times in a list of children killed during Operation Guardian of the Walls were killed by rockets launched by terrorist organiza




					www.jewishpress.com
				




At least eight of the children whose names were featured by the New York Times in a list of children killed during Operation Guardian of the Walls were killed by rockets launched by terrorist organizations that misfired and fell inside the Gaza Strip, the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC) has found.


----------



## Sixties Fan

> The Palestinian National Liberation Movement "Fatah" affirmed that the land is the core of the conflict, and that our people will continue their steadfastness on the land of their historic homeland Palestine, and make all sacrifices for its liberation from the Israeli occupation.
> 
> Fatah said in a statement issued by the Information and Culture Commission today, Monday, on the 45th anniversary of the Eternal Land Day, that the struggle of our Palestinian people has been continuing with a solid will for more than 100 years, and that it will not stop until its freedom is achieved as a master on its land .</blockquote>The article is crystal clear that it is referring to all the land of "historic Palestine," referring to the Negev, Galilee and the Triangle.
> 
> ...This day is one of the defining moments in the history of the Palestinian cause, and a fully conscious act of struggle, just like Fatah's response to the Nakba of Palestine in 1948 and its launch of the revolution to emphasize the goal of liberating the land and return.




Anyone who believes that the main Palestinian political party in the PA would stop their claims if given a state in the West Bank and Gaza is willfully blind. 








__





						By the way, Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah explicitly says it wants to destroy Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Any modern leader, if such a report was written about their country's textbooks, would respond with "Thank you for  this information. We will study the report and if any of the criticisms are accurate, we will make the appropriate changes." 

But Palestinian leaders aren't normal leaders.


Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh defended the textbooks and curricula in his weekly ministers meeting:



> The Prime Minister reiterated that "Palestinian school curricula is a reflection of our lives and dreams of our children 's freedom and the suffering of our people from the occupation and its violations, and all that is contained in the textbooks is accurate...."
> He stressed that our curricula, while responding to the cultural, historical, psychological, scientific, technological, economic and development needs of our children, also respond to international charters and resolutions that consider the Palestinian territories to be occupied lands, and they also respond to the standards set by the UNESCO Education, Culture and Science Organization of the values of truth, justice and equality, which are values that he struggles with our people in order to gain the end of the occupation of our land .
> 
> He stressed that the Palestinian curricula cannot be tried by criteria far removed from the history and culture of our people, their suffering and sacrifices in order to obtain their right to freedom and independence from occupation, injustice and colonialism, calling on Europe to conduct a study of Israeli books and curricula, similar to the study that was prepared on our curricula by a German institution, with funding from the European Union.



He doesn't even address the issues mentioned. According to Shtayyeh - who is as moderate a Palestinian as any - Palestinian textbooks must not be judged according to the standards of any other, because Palestinians are so uniquely victimized. Any antisemitism and support for terrorism is justified by their lived experience.

He is really saying that the world revolves around Palestinians and no one can dare criticize them.

(full article online)









						Palestinian prime minister defends antisemitic textbooks
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Those, like the U.S., who are looking to bolster Abbas are likely fighting an uphill battle. Throughout history, Palestinian leaders have encouraged “intifadas” (violent uprisings) resulting in lost lives, Jewish and Arab alike — and also in the replacement of one Palestinian political elite with another.


The first “intifada” did not begin in 1987, as commonly supposed. Rather, it began half a century earlier.

At the time, Palestinian Arab politics was dominated by Amin al-Husseini, who had been appointed by the ruling British as the grand mufti of Jerusalem. Husseini had incited anti-Jewish violence in 1920, 1921, and 1929. But by the 1930s he came under increasing criticism from firebrands such as Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, who argued that he was not being militant enough in combating Zionism.

When Qassam and some supporters murdered a British policeman and were subsequently killed in November 1935, his well-attended funeral sparked what has commonly been called the “Arab Revolt,” but which, in truth, was the first intifada. Husseini hoped to capitalize on the growing violence. Armed and equipped by the authoritarian anti-Semitic powers of the day — fascist Italy and Nazi Germany — Husseini’s forces murdered Jews and British officials. Husseini also used the occasion to assassinate and eliminate members of the Nashashibi clan, his chief rivals for power.

By the time the intifada was crushed in 1939, Husseini had been banished from British-ruled Mandatory Palestine. Many of his followers and supporters had been killed by the British, but he himself was now the undisputed master of Palestinian Arab politics. Despite his World War II-era collaboration with the Nazis, Husseini remained the dominant force among Palestinians for at least another decade, only declining in influence when his forces failed to destroy the fledgling Jewish state in Israel’s 1948 War of Independence.

Fifty years later, in December 1987, anti-Jewish violence again erupted, perpetrated by young Palestinians, many of whom were critical of the old guard of Yasser Arafat’s Fatah movement. Younger Fatah members felt that Arafat and other Fatah founders were old, out of touch, and corrupt. Like Husseini before him, Arafat tried to capitalize on the fire that others had lit, attempting to use the intifada to regain relevance. Arafat would manage to maintain his dominance thanks in no small part to the U.S.-backed Oslo Accords, which allowed him to lead the newly created Palestinian Authority. But he would spend the next two decades alternately battling and cooperating with younger rivals and groups such as Hamas.

(full article online)









						The Long History, and High Costs, of Palestinian Intifadas | National Review
					

For Palestinian leaders who choose to promote them, intifadas are often self-defeating.




					www.nationalreview.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Project!!  Project !!  Project !!









						D.C.-Based Palestinian Academic Mohamed Rabie: The Jews, 'Mostly The Zionists,' Control U.S. Media, Bribe Politicians, Make Americans Ignorant; The West Committed Massacres Because It Has No Conscience
					

U.S.-Based Palestinian professor Mohamed Rabie said that the Jews, mostly the Zionists, control American media and bribe politicians on both sides. He made these remarks in an int




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

The scuffle that occurred in May when the Islamic terrorists in Gaza attacked Israel was an outright disaster for the terrorists.

Counting the targeted strikes made by Israel along with those Pallys killed as part of malfunctioning Islamo-rockets killing Pally civilians, it was another unmitigated Pally disaster.












						48% of Gaza war casualties associated with terror groups – intel report
					

Meir Amit Center identified the over 200 Palestinians killed during operation Guardian of the Walls.




					m.jpost.com
				





At least 48% of the Palestinians killed during the May 10-21 Gaza conflict were associated with terrorist groups, the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center reported Tuesday.

In a copy of the report first obtained by The Jerusalem Post, the intelligence center broke down the more than 200 Palestinians killed according to their affiliation with terrorist groups, identified those killed by Palestinian misfires and listed civilian deaths.


In the report, the center recognized that there are different estimates about the number of dead Palestinians, ranging between 240 and 260, and it used the number 234.

According to the report, some 112 of the 234 were associated with Hamas, Islamic Jihad or another terrorist group.


The report quoted an interview by Hamas’s leader in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Sinwar, on June 5 in which he admitted that Hamas systematically mixed its fighting forces and weapons with civilians and civilian locations.

In addition, 21 Palestinians died from misfired terrorist rockets intended to strike Israel, the report said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Noura Erakat SLAM DUNKS on CNN reporter​


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Noura Erakat SLAM DUNKS on CNN reporter​




Sure, the billionaire daughter of the PA oligarch

 is all about "freedom and equality..."


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists have made it clear that they intend to continue paying their gee-had killers.

How quickly will whomever is in charge of the Biden disaster begin writing Pally welfare checks?










						PA and Abbas spit Biden and Blinken in the eyes – vow to continue rewarding terrorists with generous salaries | PMW Analysis
					

As US President Biden and Secretary of State Blinken are doing all they can to renew US funding to the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority and its Chairman Mahmoud Abbas are simply spitting Biden and Blinken in the eyes.




					www.palwatch.org
				





PA and Abbas spit Biden and Blinken in the eyes – vow to continue rewarding terrorists with generous salaries​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jun 22, 2021



As US President Biden and Secretary of State Blinken are doing all they can to renew US funding to the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority and its Chairman Mahmoud Abbas are simply spitting Biden and Blinken in the eyes. One of the major obstacles impeding US aid to the Palestinians is the PA’s terror rewarding “Pay-for-Slay” policy. While the PA seems to be trying to convince the Biden administration that it has reformed, or even abandoned its pugnacious terror reward program, at home, in Arabic, PA TV is clarifying the message of Abbas to the Palestinian people: “Pay-for-Slay” will continue!


----------



## Sixties Fan

If you ever thought that the Palestinians protesting against Israel actually hope for peace, then think again.

In a blatant display of anti-Semitic hatred, Palestinian protesters in New York openly chant for Israel’s destruction.

These Israel haters make it perfectly clear that peace with the Jewish state is not on their agenda.

Watch and decide if land for peace is a realistic solution!

(full article online)









						Pro-Palestinian Protesters in NY Shout for Destruction of Israel | United with Israel
					

It seems quite clear that pro-Palestinian activists have no interest in peace with the Jewish state.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Using a picture of a wounded baby, Fatah is calling on Palestinians to boycott Israeli ‎products. The ad above implies the PA libel that Israel deliberately targets, hurts, and ‎even kills Palestinian children and that buying Israeli products will help finance this.‎

In the ad, Fatah labels Israel the “enemy” and urges Palestinians to “boycott Israeli ‎products”: ‎

(full article online)










						Fatah uses wounded baby in propaganda for Israel boycott | PMW Analysis
					

Using a picture of a wounded baby, Fatah is calling on Palestinians to boycott Israeli ‎products. The ad above implies the PA libel that Israel deliberately targets, hurts, and ‎even kills Palestinian children and that buying Israeli products will help finance this




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

I'm curious to know if these folks understand that they are the ones financing Pally terrorism with the millions of welfare dollars they throw at the PA and UNRWA. 












						Bipartisan Bill to Sanction Those Financing Hamas Terror Introduced in Congress
					

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi presides over the final of two House of Representatives votes approving two counts of …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




A bipartisan bill that would sanction persons and organizations who help finance the Palestinian terror groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad has been introduced in the US House of Representatives.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Identification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_

*QUESTION*:  Who is the "HAMAS Lady?"



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.



*(COMMENT)*

I'm sure I am misunderstanding either your meaning or the specific "lady" to which you are referring.

I have seen you use the phrase "HAMAS Lady" a number of times this past month and seem to be directing the description towards our friend "Hollie."  Yet this description seems to fit you many more times than it fits "Hollie."

Just for clarification and my personal edification, just who are you describing, and what is your meaning?






_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Identification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *QUESTION*:  Who is the "HAMAS Lady?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm sure I am misunderstanding either your meaning or the specific "lady" to which you are referring.
> 
> I have seen you use the phrase "HAMAS Lady" a number of times this past month and seem to be directing the description towards our friend "Hollie."  Yet this description seems to fit you many more times than it fits "Hollie."
> 
> Just for clarification and my personal edification, just who are you describing, and what is your meaning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I have seen you use the phrase "HAMAS Lady" a number of times this past month and seem to be directing the description towards our friend "Hollie."


Indeed, and you would be correct. Only a small number of Palestinians are Hamas. Yet her posts imply that there is nobody else. Virtually all of her videos are MEMRI or PMW both of which are well established Israeli propaganda organizations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Identification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *QUESTION*:  Who is the "HAMAS Lady?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm sure I am misunderstanding either your meaning or the specific "lady" to which you are referring.
> 
> I have seen you use the phrase "HAMAS Lady" a number of times this past month and seem to be directing the description towards our friend "Hollie."  Yet this description seems to fit you many more times than it fits "Hollie."
> 
> Just for clarification and my personal edification, just who are you describing, and what is your meaning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen you use the phrase "HAMAS Lady" a number of times this past month and seem to be directing the description towards our friend "Hollie."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and you would be correct. Only a small number of Palestinians are Hamas. Yet her posts imply that there is nobody else. Virtually all of her videos are MEMRI or PMW both of which are well established Israeli propaganda organizations.
Click to expand...

Indeed, your well established Pom Pom flailing for islamic terrorists fails to acknowledge many uncomfortable realities. 

Let's look at some facts, shall we?
Post #19817 was the most recent post by me using Pal Media Watch. While it may hurt your feelings, reviewing the link will reveal that the information was taken from "Official PA TV, June 4". 

Your usual slogan of "Israeli propaganda" means what exactly when your islamic terrorist heroes broadcasted the material on public television?

My posts have never implied that Hamas is the only islamic terrorist franchise in the areas occupied by Hamas, PIJ, Islamic gee-had, Al-Quds Brigades and other sub organizations. 

Indeed, are your feelings hurt?


----------



## Hollie

The Pally culture of self-inflicted disasters includes abusing their children for politico-religious reasons.

Indeed, while it may hurt someone's feelings, note the source:
Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, June 13, 2021

Not propaganda but reflective of the actions of pious Moslems who are immersed in a retrograde culture of hate, self-hate and sociopathic behavior. 











						A kid called Eichmann | PMW Analysis
					

Official PA daily praises Palestinian who named his son Eichmann “to anger Zionism”




					www.palwatch.org
				




A kid called Eichmann
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 24, 2021
Official PA daily praises Palestinian who named his son Eichmann “to anger Zionism”
The ways Palestinians can “resist” and “fight” Israel seem to be unlimited. One such way, which was praised by the official PA daily, is to give your child a name that “angers Zionism.”

You can name your child Eichmann, for example!

In the following story, the official PA daily praised a Palestinian “fighting family” for its “love of the struggle” against Israel through generations. Recounting the many ways different members of the Abu Atwan family have “struggled,” the paper highlighted the fact that one of the men named his son “Eichmann” after Adolf Eichmann, a high ranking officer in the Nazi SS and one of the major architects of the genocide of over 6,000,000 of the Jews of Europe:

“Out of his love for his homeland, he gave birth to a son and gave him the name Eichmann to anger Zionism. After the Mossad (Israeli Secret Intelligence Service) executed Adolf Eichmann, [Al-Ghadanfar’s] grandfather said: ‘The one who burned the Jews out of hatred has passed on, and the Palestinian Eichmann has been born.’”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, June 13, 2021


----------



## Hollie

Hurt Feelings Alert!









						55 US House members introduce Hamas International Financing Prevention Ac
					

The bill seeks “to impose financial sanctions on foreign persons, agencies, and governments that assist Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or their affiliates.”




					www.google.com
				




The bill seeks “to impose financial sanctions on foreign persons, agencies, and governments that assist Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or their affiliates.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The ways Palestinians can “resist” and “fight” Israel seem to be unlimited. One such way, which was praised by the official PA daily, is to give your child a name that “angers Zionism.”

You can name your child Eichmann, for example!

In the following story, the official PA daily praised a Palestinian “fighting family” for its “love of the struggle” against Israel through generations. Recounting the many ways different members of the Abu Atwan family have “struggled,” the paper highlighted the fact that one of the men named his son “Eichmann” after Adolf Eichmann, a high ranking officer in the Nazi SS and one of the major architects of the genocide of over 6,000,000 of the Jews of Europe:

(full article online)









						A kid called Eichmann | PMW Analysis
					

Official PA daily praises Palestinian who named his son Eichmann “to anger Zionism”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And his name is Daniel ? ]

Daniel Jadue, a grandson of Palestinian immigrants, is the frontrunner to become Chile’s next president.

He is an outspoken critic of Israel, but more importantly, he has been recognized as an antisemite since he was in high school. For Jadue, there is no distinction.

The bio says that "this antisemite was seen in all coastal waters," that he will become the leader of the PLO "to cleanse the city of Jews," that "he sings manifestos against his beloved and esteemed neighbors 'the Jews'" and that a proper gift for him would be "a Jew he can aim at." 

 (It is also notable that his high school classmates felt that Jew-hatred was a joke.)

His antisemitism pre-dates his current claim of being merely "anti-Zionist."

(full article online)









						Chilean presidential candidate proves "anti-Zionism" is antisemitism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Banat’s family, who say they were with him during the arrest, accused over twenty PA officers of violently beating him.

According to his relatives, the arrest took place around 3:30 a.m. The officers first began hitting Nizar with iron bars when he was asleep before stripping him naked and continuing to beat him. They also used pepper spray to neutralize him.

“They beat him for about eight straight minutes. Are you coming to kill him or what?” his cousin Mohammad told Palestinian reporters outside the Banat home in Dura, deeming it a “vicious beating.”

(full article online)









						Prominent Abbas critic dies in PA custody after ‘vicious beating’ by officers
					

Nizar Banat's family says he was beaten severely by security forces as he was taken into custody on Thursday; PA says it will investigate the incident




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

As the international community seeks ways to help the residents of the Gaza Strip after the recent war between Israel and Hamas... and PIJ are diverting their budgets to training children to become soldiers in the war to destroy Israel.

Palestinian Islamic Jihad confirms that... the Palestinians "are preparing the liberation generation for the 'great liberation' battle for this blessed land."
They have enough funds to launch camps to brainwash and indoctrinate their own children, but are not prepared to invest in rebuilding homes that were destroyed or damaged during the last Israel-Hamas war.
For Hamas and PIJ, the ambition to destroy Israel is evidently stronger than the desire to protect the lives of their children and raise them to become, say, doctors or engineers. The children who are now undergoing military training in the Gaza Strip will soon appear as masked men in the armed groups of Hamas and PIJ.
This bodes rather ill for the Biden administration's talk about a "two-state solution" and the need to revive the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians.

(full article online)









						The Palestinian Jihad Summer Camps
					

As the international community seeks ways to help the residents of the Gaza Strip after the recent war between Israel and Hamas... and PIJ are diverting their budgets to training children to become soldiers in the war to destroy Israel. Palestinian




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Why the Unrest in Gaza Might Get Worse,” the June 17 _The New Republic_article by freelance journalist Dalia Hatuqa is so rife with factual errors and partisan reporting it’s hard to know where to begin.





Attack on the house of senior Hamas operative Atallah Abu al-Sabah. All around, buildings are not pulverized (QudsN Facebook page, May 19, 2021)

In her most outrageous, factually-challenged assertion, Hatuqa fabricates: “Gaza was pulverized by an 11-day-long Israeli bombardment in May.” But the facts tell a different story. According to the United Nations, in the last round of fighting last month,”450 buildings in the Gaza Strip were completely destroyed or damaged by missiles.” According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (2018), there are 186,156 buildings in the Gaza Strip. In other words, _*no more than .2 percent *_of the buildings in the Gaza Strip were damaged or destroyed. (Presumably, additional buildings have been constructed since 2018, driving the percentage down further.) The tiny percentage of buildings affected by the fighting completely belies Hatuqa’s sweeping fabrication that “Gaza was pulverized.”

(full article online)









						In The New Republic, Dalia Hatuqa Pulverizes The Facts
					

The most outrageous falsehood in Dalia Hatuqa's error-rife article is: 'Gaza was pulverized by an 11-day-long Israeli bombardment in May.' In fact, at most




					www.camera.org


----------



## Hollie

There is something to be said for taking a firm stance with religious fanatics. When those fanatics spend their every waking moment in sweaty, feverish calls to gee-had, make sure you're prepared for the worst. 













						Concessions to Hamas Lead to Violence; Holding Firm Leads to Calm
					

Israeli concessions in Jerusalem led to the recent outbreak of serious fighting, but insisting on the flag parade led to relative calm. Will the new leadership of Bennett and Lapid take this to heart,




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Israel’s relatively short history is full of evidence that concessions to implacable enemies lead to violence and increased costs in terms of human life and property, while holding firm leads to calm.


----------



## Hollie

It's something of a game the west plays with the islamic terrorists. We shower them with welfare money which they use for gee-had and for personal gain. We impose no real conditions on how they spend the welfare or how much welfare money they steal. We occasionally slap them on the wrist for the worst examples of their behavior but we don't stop the welfare payments. 












						EU Commissioner Echoes Call to Condition Funding of Palestinian Schools on Removal of Antisemitism from Textbooks
					

A religious instruction exercise in a Palestinian school textbook asking students to consider the role of women in “jihad against …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




A European Union commissioner has said that funding from the 27-member bloc of nations for schools in the Palestinian Authority (PA) must be conditioned on respect in the curriculum for tolerance and non-violence alongside the outright rejection of antisemitism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Endorsing the entire PA curriculum, PA PM Shtayyeh thus justifies the portrayal of murderer Mughrabi as a role model for youth, and especially as an example of women’s empowerment. PM Shtayyeh also sanctions that Palestinian children are indirectly taught that it is legitimate to use violence and terror against civilians - the ultimate essence of Mughrabi’s “fame,” and that for which she is known among Palestinians.

By his statement, Shtayyeh also approves of the denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders, as is taught to Palestinian children through maps that show all of the State of Israel as included in “the State of Palestine.” According to the EU report:









						Perpetuating hatred, legitimizing violence, and erasing Israel - PA PM defends PA curriculum despite criticism leveled by EU report | PMW Analysis
					

PA PM Shtayyeh endorses PA curriculum that implies to kids that violence and terror against civilians are legitimate means




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

When the Islamic terrorist dictator sends a message, he goes big. 










						Abbas Critic Dies After Being Beaten While Asleep by Palestinian Authority Officers
					

A prominent critic of Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas died on Thursday morning after being beaten by more than...




					www.breitbart.com
				




According to his family, around 25 officers stripped Banat naked and beat him with clubs and iron bars while he was asleep. They also used pepper spray on him.

The PA’s Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) said an autopsy showed Banat sustained heavy blows to the head that indicated “an unnatural death.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Identification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_

*BLUF*::   _*“Nothing can justify terrorism — ever,”*_ Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon declared at the opening of a high-level meeting of the Security Council today, capped by a presidential statement expressing that body’s deep concern over the terrorist threat and its determination to combat it by all means in all its forms and manifestations, in line with the United Nations Charter and international law.

In an ethical and legal context, violence is one thing whereas terrorism is something different.  The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is the foundation of 21st Century Terrorism.  



Sixties Fan said:


> Endorsing the entire PA curriculum, PA PM Shtayyeh thus justifies the portrayal of murderer Mughrabi as a role model for youth, and especially as an example of women’s empowerment. PM Shtayyeh also sanctions that Palestinian children are indirectly taught that it is legitimate to use violence and terror against civilians - the ultimate essence of Mughrabi’s “fame,” and that for which she is known among Palestinians.
> 
> By his statement, Shtayyeh also approves of the denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders, as is taught to Palestinian children through maps that show all of the State of Israel as included in “the State of Palestine.” According to the EU report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perpetuating hatred, legitimizing violence, and erasing Israel - PA PM defends PA curriculum despite criticism leveled by EU report | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA PM Shtayyeh endorses PA curriculum that implies to kids that violence and terror against civilians are legitimate means
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


*(COMMENT)*
.
Global or International Terrorism (GIT), as defined in the 1938 League of Nations (LoN) *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, has become entangled and complicated in the legal quibbling of the 21st Century, to the point that the law no longer clarifies the understanding but actually hinders understanding.   What used to take only 12 pages and 29 Articles to the convention (_including the translation into French_), now takes over _*19 international instruments*_ that chops up Terrorism into many different forms.  But in those many documents, none was able to more clearly define terrorism any better than the 1938 version.






.​
.Incitement to violence and the glorification of terrorism is nothing new in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).  
Terrorism is the violent consequence of a world divided into nearly two hundred nation-states. It is the inevitable outcome of
the compulsive territorialization of human communities. As a consequence of slicing the globe into ≈ 195 nation-states (_197 if you count the observer states_), terrorism becomes the preferred tool to resolve disputes in the MENA nations with problematic ethical issues and a callous disregard for human life.  It is almost the case that many MENA nations have sociopathic characteristics embedded in their foreign policymakers.

*(SIDEBAR)*


​Different countermeasures have different impacts and consequences.  And the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) take full advantage of any negative outcomes on the Israelis.  The chart shows that when Israel withdraws its forces, rocket attacks increase.  But when Operation Protective Edge had a significant impact on the HoAP, the Palestinians immediately ran for cover under the skirts of the Criminal Court, filing War Crimes charges.  Currently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) is investigating alleged War Crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory the Israelis, since 13 June 2014.  The ICC lumped in any event that might remotely connect to the central War Crimes allegations.  It remains to be seen if the HoAP is found responsible for any legal missteps.







_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## Hollie

The German government has actually shown some backbone and is perhaps deciding to address the more excitable of the Hamas groupies. 












						Germany bans Hamas flag, PKK symbols under new ‘terror’ rules
					

Move to ban Hamas flag is in response to reports of violence and anti-Semitism at rallies in Germany, official says.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




Move to ban Hamas flag is in response to reports of violence and anti-Semitism at demonstrations in Germany, official says.





The move comes after several pro-Palestinian rallies in Germany during the escalation of the Israel-Palestine conflict in May [File: Eduardo Munoz/Reuters]
25 Jun 2021

Germany’s Bundestag lower house of parliament has passed a law outlawing symbols of groups designated as terrorist organisations by the European Union, including the Palestinian movement, Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Identification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *BLUF*::   _*“Nothing can justify terrorism — ever,”*_ Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon declared at the opening of a high-level meeting of the Security Council today, capped by a presidential statement expressing that body’s deep concern over the terrorist threat and its determination to combat it by all means in all its forms and manifestations, in line with the United Nations Charter and international law.
> 
> In an ethical and legal context, violence is one thing whereas terrorism is something different.  The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is the foundation of 21st Century Terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Endorsing the entire PA curriculum, PA PM Shtayyeh thus justifies the portrayal of murderer Mughrabi as a role model for youth, and especially as an example of women’s empowerment. PM Shtayyeh also sanctions that Palestinian children are indirectly taught that it is legitimate to use violence and terror against civilians - the ultimate essence of Mughrabi’s “fame,” and that for which she is known among Palestinians.
> 
> By his statement, Shtayyeh also approves of the denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders, as is taught to Palestinian children through maps that show all of the State of Israel as included in “the State of Palestine.” According to the EU report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perpetuating hatred, legitimizing violence, and erasing Israel - PA PM defends PA curriculum despite criticism leveled by EU report | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA PM Shtayyeh endorses PA curriculum that implies to kids that violence and terror against civilians are legitimate means
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Global or International Terrorism (GIT), as defined in the 1938 League of Nations (LoN) *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, has become entangled and complicated in the legal quibbling of the 21st Century, to the point that the law no longer clarifies the understanding but actually hinders understanding.   What used to take only 12 pages and 29 Articles to the convention (_including the translation into French_), now takes over _*19 international instruments*_ that chops up Terrorism into many different forms.  But in those many documents, none was able to more clearly define terrorism any better than the 1938 version.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 505506
> .​
> .Incitement to violence and the glorification of terrorism is nothing new in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).
> Terrorism is the violent consequence of a world divided into nearly two hundred nation-states. It is the inevitable outcome of
> the compulsive territorialization of human communities. As a consequence of slicing the globe into ≈ 195 nation-states (_197 if you count the observer states_), terrorism becomes the preferred tool to resolve disputes in the MENA nations with problematic ethical issues and a callous disregard for human life.  It is almost the case that many MENA nations have sociopathic characteristics embedded in their foreign policymakers.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> View attachment 505541​Different countermeasures have different impacts and consequences.  And the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) take full advantage of any negative outcomes on the Israelis.  The chart shows that when Israel withdraws its forces, rocket attacks increase.  But when Operation Protective Edge had a significant impact on the HoAP, the Palestinians immediately ran for cover under the skirts of the Criminal Court, filing War Crimes charges.  Currently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) is investigating alleged War Crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory the Israelis, since 13 June 2014.  The ICC lumped in any event that might remotely connect to the central War Crimes allegations.  It remains to be seen if the HoAP is found responsible for any legal missteps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
Click to expand...

Hamas has been around for over 30 years. Nobody has taken them to the ICC.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Identification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *BLUF*::   _*“Nothing can justify terrorism — ever,”*_ Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon declared at the opening of a high-level meeting of the Security Council today, capped by a presidential statement expressing that body’s deep concern over the terrorist threat and its determination to combat it by all means in all its forms and manifestations, in line with the United Nations Charter and international law.
> 
> In an ethical and legal context, violence is one thing whereas terrorism is something different.  The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is the foundation of 21st Century Terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Endorsing the entire PA curriculum, PA PM Shtayyeh thus justifies the portrayal of murderer Mughrabi as a role model for youth, and especially as an example of women’s empowerment. PM Shtayyeh also sanctions that Palestinian children are indirectly taught that it is legitimate to use violence and terror against civilians - the ultimate essence of Mughrabi’s “fame,” and that for which she is known among Palestinians.
> 
> By his statement, Shtayyeh also approves of the denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders, as is taught to Palestinian children through maps that show all of the State of Israel as included in “the State of Palestine.” According to the EU report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perpetuating hatred, legitimizing violence, and erasing Israel - PA PM defends PA curriculum despite criticism leveled by EU report | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA PM Shtayyeh endorses PA curriculum that implies to kids that violence and terror against civilians are legitimate means
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Global or International Terrorism (GIT), as defined in the 1938 League of Nations (LoN) *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, has become entangled and complicated in the legal quibbling of the 21st Century, to the point that the law no longer clarifies the understanding but actually hinders understanding.   What used to take only 12 pages and 29 Articles to the convention (_including the translation into French_), now takes over _*19 international instruments*_ that chops up Terrorism into many different forms.  But in those many documents, none was able to more clearly define terrorism any better than the 1938 version.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 505506
> .​
> .Incitement to violence and the glorification of terrorism is nothing new in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).
> Terrorism is the violent consequence of a world divided into nearly two hundred nation-states. It is the inevitable outcome of
> the compulsive territorialization of human communities. As a consequence of slicing the globe into ≈ 195 nation-states (_197 if you count the observer states_), terrorism becomes the preferred tool to resolve disputes in the MENA nations with problematic ethical issues and a callous disregard for human life.  It is almost the case that many MENA nations have sociopathic characteristics embedded in their foreign policymakers.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> View attachment 505541​Different countermeasures have different impacts and consequences.  And the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) take full advantage of any negative outcomes on the Israelis.  The chart shows that when Israel withdraws its forces, rocket attacks increase.  But when Operation Protective Edge had a significant impact on the HoAP, the Palestinians immediately ran for cover under the skirts of the Criminal Court, filing War Crimes charges.  Currently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) is investigating alleged War Crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory the Israelis, since 13 June 2014.  The ICC lumped in any event that might remotely connect to the central War Crimes allegations.  It remains to be seen if the HoAP is found responsible for any legal missteps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has been around for over 30 years. Nobody has taken them to the ICC.
Click to expand...

That's quite an achievement.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Identification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_
> 
> *BLUF*::   _*“Nothing can justify terrorism — ever,”*_ Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon declared at the opening of a high-level meeting of the Security Council today, capped by a presidential statement expressing that body’s deep concern over the terrorist threat and its determination to combat it by all means in all its forms and manifestations, in line with the United Nations Charter and international law.
> 
> In an ethical and legal context, violence is one thing whereas terrorism is something different.  The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is the foundation of 21st Century Terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Endorsing the entire PA curriculum, PA PM Shtayyeh thus justifies the portrayal of murderer Mughrabi as a role model for youth, and especially as an example of women’s empowerment. PM Shtayyeh also sanctions that Palestinian children are indirectly taught that it is legitimate to use violence and terror against civilians - the ultimate essence of Mughrabi’s “fame,” and that for which she is known among Palestinians.
> 
> By his statement, Shtayyeh also approves of the denial of Israel's right to exist in any borders, as is taught to Palestinian children through maps that show all of the State of Israel as included in “the State of Palestine.” According to the EU report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perpetuating hatred, legitimizing violence, and erasing Israel - PA PM defends PA curriculum despite criticism leveled by EU report | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA PM Shtayyeh endorses PA curriculum that implies to kids that violence and terror against civilians are legitimate means
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Global or International Terrorism (GIT), as defined in the 1938 League of Nations (LoN) *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, has become entangled and complicated in the legal quibbling of the 21st Century, to the point that the law no longer clarifies the understanding but actually hinders understanding.   What used to take only 12 pages and 29 Articles to the convention (_including the translation into French_), now takes over _*19 international instruments*_ that chops up Terrorism into many different forms.  But in those many documents, none was able to more clearly define terrorism any better than the 1938 version.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 505506
> .​
> .Incitement to violence and the glorification of terrorism is nothing new in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).
> Terrorism is the violent consequence of a world divided into nearly two hundred nation-states. It is the inevitable outcome of
> the compulsive territorialization of human communities. As a consequence of slicing the globe into ≈ 195 nation-states (_197 if you count the observer states_), terrorism becomes the preferred tool to resolve disputes in the MENA nations with problematic ethical issues and a callous disregard for human life.  It is almost the case that many MENA nations have sociopathic characteristics embedded in their foreign policymakers.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> View attachment 505541​Different countermeasures have different impacts and consequences.  And the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) take full advantage of any negative outcomes on the Israelis.  The chart shows that when Israel withdraws its forces, rocket attacks increase.  But when Operation Protective Edge had a significant impact on the HoAP, the Palestinians immediately ran for cover under the skirts of the Criminal Court, filing War Crimes charges.  Currently, the International Criminal Court (ICC) is investigating alleged War Crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory the Israelis, since 13 June 2014.  The ICC lumped in any event that might remotely connect to the central War Crimes allegations.  It remains to be seen if the HoAP is found responsible for any legal missteps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has been around for over 30 years. Nobody has taken them to the ICC.
Click to expand...

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Identification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al

*BLUF*: The Rome Statutes only went into effect in mid-2002.
_


> Hamas has been around for over 30 years. Nobody has taken them to the ICC.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel has never been a signatory to the Rome Statutes.
For the purposes of the Rome Statutes and Palestine, it only went into force in April 2015.

What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.  And the Prosector has acted prejudicially towards Israel and demonstrated entanglement with a terrorist organization and declared the Hamas Arab Palestinians supporting terrorism the victims in a claim dating back even before the Palestinians were a party to the statutes.

The ICCs actions thus far can be characterized as official misconduct; a violation of international trust in that it is working in the best interest of terrorism under the color of law.  The ICC should be investigating the former Prosecutor for advancing over crimes committed "in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since June 13, 2014."  A dispute that flared up after several thousand rockets had been fired.  Israel, acting in the best interest of its citizenry, undertook operations to suppress the hostile fire and neutralize the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) launching indiscriminate indirect fire into Israel from densely populated areas in Gaza.  The HoAP made no attempt to evacuate the Palestinian Citizens from areas of military concern to the Israelis.

The ICC, now at the end of the fourth year of legal wrangling, and the seventh year sing the Terrorist supporting government has captured the attention of the Court, has yet to instill any trust and confidence to the international community it purports to serve.






_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.


Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
Click to expand...

Indeed, yes really,

Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?

link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, yes really,
> 
> Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?
> 
> link?
Click to expand...

I don't know.    Maybe 20 out of 195.

Countries call them terrorist who have never been attacked.

That seems odd.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, yes really,
> 
> Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know.    Maybe 20 out of 195.
> 
> Countries call them terrorist who have never been attacked.
> 
> That seems odd.
Click to expand...

Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, yes really,
> 
> Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know.    Maybe 20 out of 195.
> 
> Countries call them terrorist who have never been attacked.
> 
> That seems odd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
Click to expand...

Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.

Curious as to why they would even think about that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, yes really,
> 
> Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know.    Maybe 20 out of 195.
> 
> Countries call them terrorist who have never been attacked.
> 
> That seems odd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Curious as to why they would even think about that.
Click to expand...

Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?

Why would a country need to be threatened with attacks before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?

What do you think are some reasons why, for example, the Swedish government is not designated as a terrorist organization but Hamas is?

Research your YouTube video library and post a YouTube video.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Identification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al

Our friend "Hollie" is right on target._

*BLUF*: The term "terrorist" is nomenclature.  You do not need to be killed by Criminal and Cult Leader Charles Manson to call him a murderer.  Just as you do not have been in space to recognize an astronaut.  And you don't have to be attacked by a terrorist to know that the Palestinians support terrorists and that HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) is a terrorist organization.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Curious as to why they would even think about that.


*(COMMENT)*

Your logic here is faulty.

When you have a set of conditions wherein some entity is involved in criminal activity directed against the State of Israel, intended to create an air of fear → as a weapon of intimidation to coercion or as blackmail directed against the Israeli people.  You do not have to be an Israeli to know that the perpetrators are terrorists.

You do not have to have been attacked during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, to recognize the Arab Palestinians were terrorists.  Just as you did not have to be in the Shopping Mall to know that the Suicide bombing outside the shopping mall in Netanya (2005) was an act of terror.  Just as you did not have to be a passenger on either of the busses involved in the two suicide bombings in Beersheba (2004).  You don't have to have been a customer suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa to know the carnage of terrorism (2003).  And you certainly don't have to have been a shopper in the Netanya Market Place to feel the pain of a suicide bomber killing innocent civilians (2002).  And you cannot argue that the two Palestinian Jihadists that opened fire on a crowd of pedestrians near the Afula Central Bus Station was not an act of terrorism (2001).  

An entity is, what an entity is.  And calling it by the correct name is not "name calling" as you put it.  




			
				[/FONT]Plan of Action to Prevent Violent Extremism[FONT=arial] said:
			
		

> Violent extremism is an affront to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. It undermines peace and security, human rights and sustainable development. No country or region is immune from its impacts.
> *SOURCE*: _* Paragraph 1 - *_*A/70/674.  The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*










_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, yes really,
> 
> Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know.    Maybe 20 out of 195.
> 
> Countries call them terrorist who have never been attacked.
> 
> That seems odd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Curious as to why they would even think about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> Why would a country need to be threatened with attacks before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> What do you think are some reasons why, for example, the Swedish government is not designated as a terrorist organization but Hamas is?
> 
> Research your YouTube video library and post a YouTube video.
Click to expand...

The terrorist label is juvenile, political name calling. The real definition of terrorist is "anyone we don't like."


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Identification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al
> 
> Our friend "Hollie" is right on target._
> 
> *BLUF*: The term "terrorist" is nomenclature.  You do not need to be killed by Criminal and Cult Leader Charles Manson to call him a murderer.  Just as you do not have been in space to recognize an astronaut.  And you don't have to be attacked by a terrorist to know that the Palestinians support terrorists and that HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) is a terrorist organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Curious as to why they would even think about that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your logic here is faulty.
> 
> When you have a set of conditions wherein some entity is involved in criminal activity directed against the State of Israel, intended to create an air of fear → as a weapon of intimidation to coercion or as blackmail directed against the Israeli people.  You do not have to be an Israeli to know that the perpetrators are terrorists.
> 
> You do not have to have been attacked during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, to recognize the Arab Palestinians were terrorists.  Just as you did not have to be in the Shopping Mall to know that the Suicide bombing outside the shopping mall in Netanya (2005) was an act of terror.  Just as you did not have to be a passenger on either of the busses involved in the two suicide bombings in Beersheba (2004).  You don't have to have been a customer suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa to know the carnage of terrorism (2003).  And you certainly don't have to have been a shopper in the Netanya Market Place to feel the pain of a suicide bomber killing innocent civilians (2002).  And you cannot argue that the two Palestinian Jihadists that opened fire on a crowd of pedestrians near the Afula Central Bus Station was not an act of terrorism (2001).
> 
> An entity is, what an entity is.  And calling it by the correct name is not "name calling" as you put it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/FONT]Plan of Action to Prevent Violent Extremism[FONT=arial] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Violent extremism is an affront to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. It undermines peace and security, human rights and sustainable development. No country or region is immune from its impacts.
> *SOURCE*: _* Paragraph 1 - *_*A/70/674.  The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
Click to expand...

The EU court ruled that no credible evidence was presented when Hamas was declared terrorists. Because it is merely political name calling, real evidence was not necessary.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Case number = C-79/15
⁜→ P F Tinmore, _et al_

*BLUF*:  You simply don't fact-check anything you talk about.  You are so short-sighted.



P F Tinmore said:


> The EU court ruled that no credible evidence was presented when Hamas was declared terrorists. Because it is merely political name calling, real evidence was not necessary.


*(PRESS RELEASE)*

The Court of Justice declares that the General Court should not have annulled Hamas’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations and refers the case back to the General Court.

On 27 December 2001, the Council of the European Union adopted a common position1 and a regulation to combat terrorism. Those measures require the freezing of the assets of individuals, groups and entities suspected of being involved in acts of terrorism and whose names are included on a list adopted and regularly updated by the Council.

On the same day, the Council adopted an initial decision by which it entered the Hamas movement on the list. It subsequently maintained Hamas’ entry on that list.

The full text of the *Judgments  C-79/15P* are published on the CURIA website on the day of delivery.

* (COMMENT)*

HAMAS is still on the list.

*The action before the General Court • In Case C‑79/15 P*

55      In accordance with the first paragraph of Article 61 of the Statute of the Court of Justice of the European Union, the Court may, where it has quashed the decision of the General Court, either itself give final judgment in the matter, where the state of the proceedings so permits, or refer the case back to the General Court for judgment.

56      Since the General Court has ruled only on the fourth and sixth pleas in law in the application made by Hamas for annulment of the measures adopted by the Council in the period from July 2011 to July 2014, and the other pleas in law relied on before the General Court raise in part questions relating to the assessment of facts, the Court considers that the state of the proceedings is not such as to permit final judgment to be given in the action, and that the case must be referred back to the General Court and the costs reserved.





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Curious as to why they would even think about that.



Because terrorist groups are terrorist groups.

Why would you even think Hamas was not?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is that the Prosecutor is assisting a Terrorist Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. They just don't use Israel's name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, yes really,
> 
> Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by how many nations?
> 
> link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know.    Maybe 20 out of 195.
> 
> Countries call them terrorist who have never been attacked.
> 
> That seems odd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Countries who have never been attacked, and have never been threatened with attack, call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Curious as to why they would even think about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would a country need to be attacked before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> Why would a country need to be threatened with attacks before designating an Islamic terrorist organization an Islamic terrorist organization?
> 
> What do you think are some reasons why, for example, the Swedish government is not designated as a terrorist organization but Hamas is?
> 
> Research your YouTube video library and post a YouTube video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The terrorist label is juvenile, political name calling. The real definition of terrorist is "anyone we don't like."
Click to expand...


Understanding your feelings are hurt, I can understand why you want to defend a designated Islamic terrorist organization. 

I'm still interested to see a youtube video as your response to why the Swedish government is not a designated terrorist organization. Are the Swedes attacking Finland in furtherance of a 1,400 year old politico-religious ideology? 

There are some generally accepted definitions of terrorism directed against a State. Can you you post a YouTube video that addresses those actions?


----------



## Hollie

Attached is a list of US designated foreign terrorist organizations.









						Foreign Terrorist Organizations - United States Department of State
					

Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are foreign organizations that are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended. FTO designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means...




					www.state.gov
				




It's just.... uncanny, how over-represented groups with surnames including ''Islam'', "Palestine'', ''Martyrs'l appear on the list.



*Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations*​*Date Designated*​*Name*​


10/8/1997​Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)10/8/1997​Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)10/8/1997​Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)10/8/1997​Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group – IG)10/8/1997​HAMAS10/8/1997​Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)10/8/1997​Hizballah10/8/1997​Kahane Chai (Kach)10/8/1997​Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK, aka Kongra-Gel)10/8/1997​Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)10/8/1997​National Liberation Army (ELN)10/8/1997​Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)10/8/1997​Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)10/8/1997​Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)10/8/1997​PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)10/8/1997​Shining Path (SL)10/8/1999​al-Qa’ida (AQ)9/25/2000​Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)5/16/2001​Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)12/26/2001​Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)12/26/2001​Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)3/27/2002​Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)3/27/2002​Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)3/27/2002​al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)8/9/2002​Communist Party of the Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)10/23/2002​Jemaah Islamiya (JI)1/30/2003​Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)3/22/2004​Ansar al-Islam (AAI)7/13/2004​Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)12/17/2004​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq)6/17/2005​Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)3/5/2008​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)3/18/2008​al-Shabaab5/18/2009​Revolutionary Struggle (RS)7/2/2009​Kata’ib Hizballah (KH)1/19/2010​al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)8/6/2010​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)9/1/2010​Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)11/4/2010​Jaysh al-Adl (formerly Jundallah)5/23/2011​Army of Islam (AOI)9/19/2011​Indian Mujahedeen (IM)3/13/2012​Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)5/30/2012​Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)9/19/2012​Haqqani Network (HQN)3/22/2013​Ansar al-Dine (AAD)11/14/2013​Boko Haram11/14/2013​Ansaru12/19/2013​al-Mulathamun Battalion (AMB)1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Benghazi1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Darnah1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Tunisia4/10/2014​ISIL Sinai Province (formerly Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis)5/15/2014​al-Nusrah Front8/20/2014​Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem (MSC)9/30/2015​Jaysh Rijal al-Tariq al Naqshabandi (JRTN)1/14/2016​ISIL-Khorasan (ISIL-K)5/20/2016​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s Branch in Libya (ISIL-Libya)7/1/2016​Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent8/17/2017​Hizbul Mujahideen (HM)2/28/2018​ISIS-Bangladesh2/28/2018​ISIS-Philippines2/28/2018​ISIS-West Africa5/23/2018​ISIS-Greater Sahara7/11/2018​al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)9/6/2018​Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM)4/15/2019​Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)1/10/2020​Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq (AAH)1/14/2021​Harakat Sawa’d Misr (HASM)3/11/2021​ISIS-DRC3/11/2021​ISIS-Mozambique

​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Attached is a list of US designated foreign terrorist organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations - United States Department of State
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are foreign organizations that are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended. FTO designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.state.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just.... uncanny, how over-represented groups with surnames including ''Islam'', "Palestine'', ''Martyrs'l appear on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations*​*Date Designated*​*Name*​
> 
> 
> 10/8/1997​Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)10/8/1997​Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)10/8/1997​Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)10/8/1997​Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group – IG)10/8/1997​HAMAS10/8/1997​Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)10/8/1997​Hizballah10/8/1997​Kahane Chai (Kach)10/8/1997​Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK, aka Kongra-Gel)10/8/1997​Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)10/8/1997​National Liberation Army (ELN)10/8/1997​Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)10/8/1997​Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)10/8/1997​Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)10/8/1997​PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)10/8/1997​Shining Path (SL)10/8/1999​al-Qa’ida (AQ)9/25/2000​Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)5/16/2001​Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)12/26/2001​Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)12/26/2001​Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)3/27/2002​Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)3/27/2002​Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)3/27/2002​al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)8/9/2002​Communist Party of the Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)10/23/2002​Jemaah Islamiya (JI)1/30/2003​Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)3/22/2004​Ansar al-Islam (AAI)7/13/2004​Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)12/17/2004​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq)6/17/2005​Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)3/5/2008​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)3/18/2008​al-Shabaab5/18/2009​Revolutionary Struggle (RS)7/2/2009​Kata’ib Hizballah (KH)1/19/2010​al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)8/6/2010​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)9/1/2010​Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)11/4/2010​Jaysh al-Adl (formerly Jundallah)5/23/2011​Army of Islam (AOI)9/19/2011​Indian Mujahedeen (IM)3/13/2012​Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)5/30/2012​Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)9/19/2012​Haqqani Network (HQN)3/22/2013​Ansar al-Dine (AAD)11/14/2013​Boko Haram11/14/2013​Ansaru12/19/2013​al-Mulathamun Battalion (AMB)1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Benghazi1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Darnah1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Tunisia4/10/2014​ISIL Sinai Province (formerly Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis)5/15/2014​al-Nusrah Front8/20/2014​Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem (MSC)9/30/2015​Jaysh Rijal al-Tariq al Naqshabandi (JRTN)1/14/2016​ISIL-Khorasan (ISIL-K)5/20/2016​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s Branch in Libya (ISIL-Libya)7/1/2016​Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent8/17/2017​Hizbul Mujahideen (HM)2/28/2018​ISIS-Bangladesh2/28/2018​ISIS-Philippines2/28/2018​ISIS-West Africa5/23/2018​ISIS-Greater Sahara7/11/2018​al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)9/6/2018​Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM)4/15/2019​Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)1/10/2020​Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq (AAH)1/14/2021​Harakat Sawa’d Misr (HASM)3/11/2021​ISIS-DRC3/11/2021​ISIS-Mozambique
> 
> ​


Interesting how many of these are liberation organizations.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attached is a list of US designated foreign terrorist organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations - United States Department of State
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are foreign organizations that are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended. FTO designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.state.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just.... uncanny, how over-represented groups with surnames including ''Islam'', "Palestine'', ''Martyrs'l appear on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations*​*Date Designated*​*Name*​
> 
> 
> 10/8/1997​Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)10/8/1997​Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)10/8/1997​Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)10/8/1997​Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group – IG)10/8/1997​HAMAS10/8/1997​Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)10/8/1997​Hizballah10/8/1997​Kahane Chai (Kach)10/8/1997​Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK, aka Kongra-Gel)10/8/1997​Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)10/8/1997​National Liberation Army (ELN)10/8/1997​Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)10/8/1997​Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)10/8/1997​Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)10/8/1997​PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)10/8/1997​Shining Path (SL)10/8/1999​al-Qa’ida (AQ)9/25/2000​Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)5/16/2001​Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)12/26/2001​Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)12/26/2001​Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)3/27/2002​Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)3/27/2002​Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)3/27/2002​al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)8/9/2002​Communist Party of the Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)10/23/2002​Jemaah Islamiya (JI)1/30/2003​Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)3/22/2004​Ansar al-Islam (AAI)7/13/2004​Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)12/17/2004​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq)6/17/2005​Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)3/5/2008​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)3/18/2008​al-Shabaab5/18/2009​Revolutionary Struggle (RS)7/2/2009​Kata’ib Hizballah (KH)1/19/2010​al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)8/6/2010​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)9/1/2010​Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)11/4/2010​Jaysh al-Adl (formerly Jundallah)5/23/2011​Army of Islam (AOI)9/19/2011​Indian Mujahedeen (IM)3/13/2012​Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)5/30/2012​Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)9/19/2012​Haqqani Network (HQN)3/22/2013​Ansar al-Dine (AAD)11/14/2013​Boko Haram11/14/2013​Ansaru12/19/2013​al-Mulathamun Battalion (AMB)1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Benghazi1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Darnah1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Tunisia4/10/2014​ISIL Sinai Province (formerly Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis)5/15/2014​al-Nusrah Front8/20/2014​Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem (MSC)9/30/2015​Jaysh Rijal al-Tariq al Naqshabandi (JRTN)1/14/2016​ISIL-Khorasan (ISIL-K)5/20/2016​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s Branch in Libya (ISIL-Libya)7/1/2016​Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent8/17/2017​Hizbul Mujahideen (HM)2/28/2018​ISIS-Bangladesh2/28/2018​ISIS-Philippines2/28/2018​ISIS-West Africa5/23/2018​ISIS-Greater Sahara7/11/2018​al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)9/6/2018​Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM)4/15/2019​Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)1/10/2020​Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq (AAH)1/14/2021​Harakat Sawa’d Misr (HASM)3/11/2021​ISIS-DRC3/11/2021​ISIS-Mozambique
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting how many of these are liberation organizations.
Click to expand...

None of those on the list are "liberation" groups.  They are no different than The Oath Keepers, Qanon, etc in the US.  They are about taking power from the government and keeping that power, and keeping the population under their power.

And wow, they are mostly Islamic groups.  

"Free those lands from European or Jewish occupation" is what they  have been about.

Where were any of these groups in the 19th century or before that to FREE their land?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attached is a list of US designated foreign terrorist organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations - United States Department of State
> 
> 
> Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are foreign organizations that are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended. FTO designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.state.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just.... uncanny, how over-represented groups with surnames including ''Islam'', "Palestine'', ''Martyrs'l appear on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> *Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations*​*Date Designated*​*Name*​
> 
> 
> 10/8/1997​Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)10/8/1997​Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)10/8/1997​Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)10/8/1997​Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group – IG)10/8/1997​HAMAS10/8/1997​Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)10/8/1997​Hizballah10/8/1997​Kahane Chai (Kach)10/8/1997​Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK, aka Kongra-Gel)10/8/1997​Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)10/8/1997​National Liberation Army (ELN)10/8/1997​Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)10/8/1997​Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)10/8/1997​Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)10/8/1997​PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)10/8/1997​Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)10/8/1997​Shining Path (SL)10/8/1999​al-Qa’ida (AQ)9/25/2000​Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)5/16/2001​Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)12/26/2001​Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)12/26/2001​Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)3/27/2002​Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)3/27/2002​Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)3/27/2002​al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)8/9/2002​Communist Party of the Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)10/23/2002​Jemaah Islamiya (JI)1/30/2003​Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)3/22/2004​Ansar al-Islam (AAI)7/13/2004​Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)12/17/2004​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq)6/17/2005​Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)3/5/2008​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)3/18/2008​al-Shabaab5/18/2009​Revolutionary Struggle (RS)7/2/2009​Kata’ib Hizballah (KH)1/19/2010​al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)8/6/2010​Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)9/1/2010​Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)11/4/2010​Jaysh al-Adl (formerly Jundallah)5/23/2011​Army of Islam (AOI)9/19/2011​Indian Mujahedeen (IM)3/13/2012​Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)5/30/2012​Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)9/19/2012​Haqqani Network (HQN)3/22/2013​Ansar al-Dine (AAD)11/14/2013​Boko Haram11/14/2013​Ansaru12/19/2013​al-Mulathamun Battalion (AMB)1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Benghazi1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Darnah1/13/2014​Ansar al-Shari’a in Tunisia4/10/2014​ISIL Sinai Province (formerly Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis)5/15/2014​al-Nusrah Front8/20/2014​Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem (MSC)9/30/2015​Jaysh Rijal al-Tariq al Naqshabandi (JRTN)1/14/2016​ISIL-Khorasan (ISIL-K)5/20/2016​Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s Branch in Libya (ISIL-Libya)7/1/2016​Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent8/17/2017​Hizbul Mujahideen (HM)2/28/2018​ISIS-Bangladesh2/28/2018​ISIS-Philippines2/28/2018​ISIS-West Africa5/23/2018​ISIS-Greater Sahara7/11/2018​al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)9/6/2018​Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM)4/15/2019​Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)1/10/2020​Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq (AAH)1/14/2021​Harakat Sawa’d Misr (HASM)3/11/2021​ISIS-DRC3/11/2021​ISIS-Mozambique
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting how many of these are liberation organizations.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is curious that Islamism has never been a liberator but an oppressor. 

Indeed, can you identify a single instance of islamic liberation that brought equal justice and equal rights to those subjected to islamism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie 

Hizballah kicked Israel out of Lebanon and did not take over the government.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lebanon was a separate Mandate.  And Hizbollah HAS taken over the government, so to speak.  The Government of Lebanon does not have the backing of Iran and all the weapons it sends to Hizbollahn and therefore it is not able to fight and get rid of the threat to Lebanon Hizbollah poses.  Remember what happened to Beirut during the other war?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie
> 
> Hizballah kicked Israel out of Lebanon and did not take over the government.


Strange how facts so often escape your notice.









						It’s complicated: The Aoun-Hezbollah relationship
					

Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.




					www.mei.edu
				




Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Hizballah kicked Israel out of Lebanon and did not take over the government.
> 
> 
> 
> Strange how facts so often escape your notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s complicated: The Aoun-Hezbollah relationship
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mei.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
Click to expand...

Little known fact about Hezbollah. Lebanon was planning to rebuild a synagogue that was damaged during the war. Hezbollah voted in favor of the project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Hizballah kicked Israel out of Lebanon and did not take over the government.
> 
> 
> 
> Strange how facts so often escape your notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s complicated: The Aoun-Hezbollah relationship
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mei.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Little known fact about Hezbollah. Lebanon was planning to rebuild a synagogue that was damaged during the war. Hezbollah voted in favor of the project.
Click to expand...

Do you have a youtube video?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians clashed with security forces in Ramallah on Saturday in the third day of protests following the death of a prominent critic of the Palestinian Authority, who died earlier this week in PA custody.

Nizar Banat, known for his biting videos on social media, died on Thursday after being arrested by officers in the Palestinian security services.

According to Banat’s family members, they witnessed him being viciously beaten for eight minutes straight before officers dragged him off.

Hundreds of demonstrators gathered in downtown Ramallah’s al-Manara Circle to demonstrate against Banat’s death and call for the end of PA President Mahmoud Abbas’s 16-year reign.

“The people want the fall of the regime,” protesters chanted, a hallmark of the revolutionary 2011 protests that swept the Arab world. “Get out, leave us be.”

(full article online)









						Palestinians clash with PA officers in 3rd day of rallies over activist’s death
					

Palestinian Authority forces fire tear gas in Ramallah; demonstrations also held in Hebron, after activist Nizar Banat died following his arrest by Palestinian security services




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Hizballah kicked Israel out of Lebanon and did not take over the government.
> 
> 
> 
> Strange how facts so often escape your notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s complicated: The Aoun-Hezbollah relationship
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mei.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Little known fact about Hezbollah. Lebanon was planning to rebuild a synagogue that was damaged during the war. Hezbollah voted in favor of the project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a youtube video?
Click to expand...

Commenting on a recent project for rebuilding the Maghen Abraham Synagogue in Beirut, Hussein Rahhal, a spokesman for Hezbollah said that the group supported the restoration of the synagogue: "We respect the Jewish religion just like we do Christianity.... The Jews have always lived among us.





__





						Ideology of Hezbollah - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Before his death, Abu-Ya’akob confessed to the people who had purchased the land from him about the way the Palestinian Authority coerced him to sign the affidavit that led to the cancellation of the deal. Makor Rishon obtained the content of the confession in which Abu-Ya’akob revealed the PA’s brutal actions and apologizes to the buyers for the damage he caused them. In the confession, he singles out attorney Yunis as the man who represented him in court with a false claim.

(full article online)









						Israeli Court Asked to Help the PA Catch Arabs Who Sell Land to Jews
					

An Israeli-Arab lawyer named Hossam Yunis, who works for the Palestinian Authority, is expected to receive thousands of sensitive documents on various land purchase transactions in Judea and Samaria i




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Host: “If you saw a Jew would you hit him?”
#Gaza Child: “I’d kill him”

This is what teaching violence looks like. Watch how this popular YouTuber encourages children in Gaza to “stomp” on #Israel, dehumanizes Jews, and praises violence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

You want to know why theres not peace? Because this is what the people of #Gaza are celebrating. They don’t want to peace in peace they want the elimination of the other...it’s THEM who want ethnic cleansing, not Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

(vide song and more photos online)


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie
> 
> Hizballah kicked Israel out of Lebanon and did not take over the government.
> 
> 
> 
> Strange how facts so often escape your notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s complicated: The Aoun-Hezbollah relationship
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mei.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lebanese President Michel Aoun and Hezbollah remain at loggerheads over the formation of a new government. The dispute has now entered its eighth month and the country is slowly tiptoeing towards a financial crisis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Little known fact about Hezbollah. Lebanon was planning to rebuild a synagogue that was damaged during the war. Hezbollah voted in favor of the project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a youtube video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Commenting on a recent project for rebuilding the Maghen Abraham Synagogue in Beirut, Hussein Rahhal, a spokesman for Hezbollah said that the group supported the restoration of the synagogue: "We respect the Jewish religion just like we do Christianity.... The Jews have always lived among us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ideology of Hezbollah - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

“The Jews have always lived among us.”

Yeah,. Living a tenuous existence as a dhimmi was a party.

Flail your Pom Poms for Islamist fascism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)









						Woman Busts “Palestine” Myth: Father of "Free Palestine" Not Even "Palestinian"
					

This just says it all.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ramallah News adds that Haniyeh met with the "Presidency of the Republic, the Presidency of Parliament and the Presidency of the Government." 

It is clear that Haniyeh is being treated as a national leader by the Lebanese government.

Which makes one wonder why the world - including the US - has been sending money to bolster the Lebanese Army.

(full article online)









						Hamas leader greeted as head of state by Lebanese officials
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

There were numerous suicide bombings by childrenduring the second intifada, and more attempts that weren't successful. 

This year, some of the "children" killed in the May war were identified as members of Hamas and other groups. 

It continues this year, as the Islamic Jihad and Hamas summer camps are in full session and they are proudly publishing their photos.

Hamas:

















Yet the world media and human rights NGOs are silent. There is nothing about Hamas or Islamic Jihad on HRW's Child Soldiers page or UNICEF's site on the topic.

(full article online)









						More photos of Islamic Jihad, Hamas recruiting children
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

It's easier to tell stories about Arab victims than to explain that the reason that the conflict continues is because the Palestinians and their leaders have consistently refused every offer of compromise that might have led to peace over the last century. For the editors and reporters at the Times, the refusals of PLO chief Yasser Arafat and his successor, Mahmoud Abbas, of Israeli offers of statehood and peace in the last two decades are as remote as similar decisions that occurred throughout the 20th century.

Well known as a kleptocracy that exists by fraud and criminality, and which also does its best to suppress any independent economic development or efforts to create good government, the PA is a criminal enterprise disguised as a nationalist movement. It provides income for many Palestinians in the same way that corrupt political machines have always done so. The price for their limited largess, however, is obedience to the party and its leader.

Yet those who weep crocodile tears for civilians killed as a result of Israeli counterattacks against Hamas rocket and missile fire are mum about anything that Abbas or Hamas does.

By contrast, Arabs who live in Israel enjoy not only democracy, including the right to vote, but hold seats in the Knesset and are now represented in the current government coalition, as well remain equal under the law, as opposed to being widely and falsely depicted as living under "apartheid."

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/who-really-cares-about-the-palestinians/


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Lebanese Journalist Speaks The Truth About Israel
					

Nadim Koteich, a well known Lebanese journalist made some unusual statements regarding Israel and the hypocrisy of the Arab world.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah is releasing statement after statement to deflect or justify the police brutally attacking protesters this weekend.

Majed al-Helou, member of the Fatah Revolutionary Council said that "the occupation is the only beneficiary of the state of chaos that some seek to provoke in the Palestinian street, and the Fatah movement is resistant to conspiracies targeting our national project."

Muwaffaq Sehwil, secretary of Fatah in Ramallah, said that Fatah will remain vigilant, and will not stand idly by in the face of attempts to shed Palestinian blood, saying that the protesters had "non-national agendas."

(full article online)









						Fatah spinning furiously to justify attacking protesters
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian American Comedian, Jennifer Jajeh Speaks of the challenges she is facing as a Comedian​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian American Comedian, Jennifer Jajeh Speaks of the challenges she is facing as a Comedian​


Not being funny would be a challenge.


----------



## Hollie

This ain't your fathers' scouts. This is the ISIS inspired scouts.​​​







						Palestinian scouts in Lebanon turn scout salute into Nazi-like salute, pledging allegiance to “Palestine” | PMW Analysis
					

Hezbollah official spoke at scouts’ event and huge poster of Imad Mughniyeh – a senior Lebanese Hezbollah terrorist - adorned the ceremony




					palwatch.org
				


​Palestinian scouts in Lebanon turn scout salute into Nazi-like salute, pledging allegiance to “Palestine”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik, and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jun 27, 2021

*Palestinian scouts in Lebanon indoctrinated to seek destruction of Israel and be “a second army to liberate Palestine” “from the River to the Sea”*​
*Scouts’ oath: “We will sacrifice our blood to reclaim you [Palestine]”*​
*Palestinian Red Crescent representative expressed organization’s support for recent war against Israel - “revolution and intifada”*​
*Hezbollah official spoke at scouts’ event and huge poster of Imad Mughniyeh – a senior Lebanese Hezbollah terrorist - adorned the ceremony*​
While pledging allegiance to “Palestine” at an event organized in Lebanon by the Palestinian Scout Association (PSA) and the Fatah Movement Scout Office, adult and child scouts appeared to make the Nazi salute.


----------



## Hollie

Biden will make the mistake of assuming that showering islamic terrorists with infidel cash will somehow temper the hate and revulsion for Infidel'istan that defines 1,400 years of Islamic ideology. 

Your interactions with hyper-religious, sociopaths are by way of a firm hand and no compromises to a retrograde ideology. 










						No ceasefire in Palestinian anti-Americanism
					

Its existence reminds us that education counts, that civil society-building is necessary, and that donor money should be distributed carefully and strategically.




					www.jns.org
				




Its existence reminds us that education counts, that civil society-building is necessary, and that donor money should be distributed carefully and strategically.


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## Sixties Fan

Fatah is calling for “expansion of the confrontation” with Israel. That was the message coming out of a meeting of the Fatah Revolutionary Council led by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, who is also the head of Fatah. The council also stressed Fatah’s involvement in violence, using the PA euphemism “popular resistance” – a term Palestinian Media Watch has proved is used by PA leaders at times to refer to deadly terror attacks and terror waves:



> “The Fatah Revolutionary Council… also emphasized…* the involvement of all the [Fatah] Movement frameworks in the popular resistance in all places, and the expansion of the confrontation with the settler colonialism in all districts*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 25, 2021]


Opening the meeting of the Revolutionary Council, Abbas emphasized the message that terror is legitimate and terrorists are heroic. Doling out his “blessings,” he first singled out groups that are notoriously known to be comprised of terrorists – “the Martyrs, the prisoners, the wounded.” Then he addressed the rest of the Palestinian people, again stressing the value of “fighting.” He rounded this off by specifically lauding “all the members of our people who supported the Jerusalem uprising” – a clear reference to the violence and riots that started in April and continued into the recent war in May, when terrorists from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and even Fatah fired over 4,300 rockets at Israel:

(full article online)









						Fatah calls for an “expansion of confrontation” with Israel, prides itself that “all Fatah frameworks” have been involved in “the popular resistance in all places” | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas reveres terrorists: “Blessings to the Martyrs, the prisoners, the wounded”




					palwatch.org


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## Hollie

In an inversion of reality which describes Pal-Islamism, their response to the question, "How Many Gaza Palestinians Were Killed by Hamas Rockets in May?", would be "not enough".

While the Pally islamists will kill their own and attribute the deaths to "martyrdom", that is really is just an excuse to use those deaths for propaganda purposes. 










						How Many Gaza Palestinians Were Killed by Hamas Rockets in May? An Estimate
					

Much of the coverage and commentary surrounding the fighting in May between Hamas and Israel has focused on numbers, especially the much larger number of Palestinians than Israelis killed. The number




					besacenter.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Finally, the Palestinian Journalists Syndicate  issued a statement condemning the PA for these attacks on journalists. They called on the PA to dismiss the current police chief, and they called for a clear apology. They said that journalists will not cover news about the government or presidency until these demands are met.

This is, as far as I know, unprecedented. The media (outside Gaza) has always been in the pocket of the PA government. 

I've never seen the PA this shaky. The government insists it created a commission of inquiry into the death of Nizar Banat but no one believes that it will be impartial. The PA has also staged pro-government demonstrations and heavily covered them in their own media, while ignoring the anti-government demonstrations, which is fooling no one.

(full article online)









						Palestinian journalists turn against the PA
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## P F Tinmore

Free Khalida Jarrar: A Discussion with Yafa Jarrar​


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## Hollie

She will be free after the terms of her guilty plea. 










						Israel sentences senior PFLP member to two years in prison
					

Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year




					www.google.com
				




Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year


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## Hollie

I'm thinking that Fatah may have access to new child graduates of the Hamas run summer gee-had camps, the islamic terrorist version of the Hitler Youth.  

Pally terrorists always have disposable children in the gee-had pipeline. 









						Fatah calls for an “expansion of confrontation” with Israel, prides itself that “all Fatah frameworks” have been involved in “the popular resistance in all places” | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas reveres terrorists: “Blessings to the Martyrs, the prisoners, the wounded”




					www.palwatch.org
				





Fatah calls for an “expansion of confrontation” with Israel, prides itself that “all Fatah frameworks” have been involved in “the popular resistance in all places”

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 28, 2021
Abbas reveres terrorists: “Blessings to the Martyrs, the prisoners, the wounded”

Abbas lauds participants in violent Arab riots: “Blessings to all the members of our people who supported the Jerusalem uprising”
Fatah is calling for “expansion of the confrontation” with Israel. That was the message coming out of a meeting of the Fatah Revolutionary Council led by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, who is also the head of Fatah. The council also stressed Fatah’s involvement in violence, using the PA euphemism “popular resistance” – a term Palestinian Media Watch has proved is used by PA leaders at times to refer to deadly terror attacks and terror waves:


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> She will be free after the terms of her guilty plea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel sentences senior PFLP member to two years in prison
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year


But an Israeli security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, acknowledged that “not enough evidence was found with regard to the nature of her activities and the kinds of reports she received.”


The military prosecutor also said during her sentencing that she had not been directly involved in the terror group’s “military activities.” He also acknowledged that there had been “substantial evidentiary challenges in the proceedings.”


“The defendant worked mostly in political and nationalistic contexts vis-a-vis the Palestinian Authority, and was not directly involved in the military, organizational, and financial aspects of the group,” the prosecutor told the court.

Why Is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> She will be free after the terms of her guilty plea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel sentences senior PFLP member to two years in prison
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> But an Israeli security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, acknowledged that “not enough evidence was found with regard to the nature of her activities and the kinds of reports she received.”
> 
> 
> The military prosecutor also said during her sentencing that she had not been directly involved in the terror group’s “military activities.” He also acknowledged that there had been “substantial evidentiary challenges in the proceedings.”
> 
> 
> “The defendant worked mostly in political and nationalistic contexts vis-a-vis the Palestinian Authority, and was not directly involved in the military, organizational, and financial aspects of the group,” the prosecutor told the court.
> 
> Why Is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?​
Click to expand...


She pleaded guilty. 

Clutch your koran and dump a few more silly youtube videos in the thread.


----------



## Hollie

I'm not clear how any warning from the Israeli government will convince the parents of a Dead Martyr Walking to forego their indoctrination into the wonderful world of 72 virgins. Quite a draw that has enticed 1,400 years worth of sexually frustrated / inadequate Moslem men-folk.  











						IDF Warns Gaza Parents Against Terror Summer Camps
					

"Summers are for kids, not for terror."




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Hitler Youth Inspired Gee-had Summer Camp​
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...rror-summer-camps/2021/06/27/&via=JewishPress

Photo Credit: Majdi Fathi/TPS


Campers at the Islamic Jihad summer camp in Gaza. June 27, 2021

Commander of the IDF’s Unit for the Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) Major General Ghasan Alyan addressed the residents of the Gaza Strip and warned them against the “true face” of the camps run by the Hamas and Islamic terror groups


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> She will be free after the terms of her guilty plea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel sentences senior PFLP member to two years in prison
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> But an Israeli security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, acknowledged that “not enough evidence was found with regard to the nature of her activities and the kinds of reports she received.”
> 
> 
> The military prosecutor also said during her sentencing that she had not been directly involved in the terror group’s “military activities.” He also acknowledged that there had been “substantial evidentiary challenges in the proceedings.”
> 
> 
> “The defendant worked mostly in political and nationalistic contexts vis-a-vis the Palestinian Authority, and was not directly involved in the military, organizational, and financial aspects of the group,” the prosecutor told the court.
> 
> Why Is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She pleaded guilty.
> 
> Clutch your koran and dump a few more silly youtube videos in the thread.
Click to expand...

That's the only way to get put of jail.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> She will be free after the terms of her guilty plea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel sentences senior PFLP member to two years in prison
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar pleads guilty to membership in terror group, in deal that will see her serve another eight months after being held in detention for over a year
> 
> 
> 
> But an Israeli security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, acknowledged that “not enough evidence was found with regard to the nature of her activities and the kinds of reports she received.”
> 
> 
> The military prosecutor also said during her sentencing that she had not been directly involved in the terror group’s “military activities.” He also acknowledged that there had been “substantial evidentiary challenges in the proceedings.”
> 
> 
> “The defendant worked mostly in political and nationalistic contexts vis-a-vis the Palestinian Authority, and was not directly involved in the military, organizational, and financial aspects of the group,” the prosecutor told the court.
> 
> Why Is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?​
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She pleaded guilty.
> 
> Clutch your koran and dump a few more silly youtube videos in the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the only way to get put of jail.
Click to expand...

You fell down and bumped your head again, right?


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, Pally textbooks are just drenched in the Jew hating bile that is standard fare for raising the next generation of Pally sociopaths.












						Palestinian Prime Minister Defends Antisemitic Textbooks
					

Palestinian Authority (PA) Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh gestures during an interview with Reuters, in his office in the West Bank …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Palestinian Prime Minister Defends Antisemitic Textbooks​



Palestinian Authority (PA) Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh gestures during an interview with Reuters, in his office in the West Bank city of Ramallah, June 27, 2019. Photo: Reuters / Raneen Sawafta.
The European Union finally released its report on Palestinian textbooks, which was delayed for four months after its completion. Some of the results are summarized in the _Jerusalem Post_:


> The report includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.
> The textbooks present “ambivalent — sometimes hostile — attitudes toward Jews and the characteristics they attribute to the Jewish people. …





> The report identifies “the creation of a connection between the stated deception of the ‘Jews’ in the early days of Islam and the insinuated behavior of Jews today,” calling it “extremely escalatory.”





> One textbook ties Muhammad’s aunt, who clubbed a Jew to death, to a question about Palestinian women’s steadfastness in the face of “Jewish Zionistic occupation.”





> One textbook promotes a conspiracy theory that Israel removed the original stones of ancient sites in Jerusalem and replaced them with ones bearing “Zionist drawings and shapes.”


----------



## Hollie

It would be great to see some real pressure put on the Fatah terrorist organization but I just don't believe the Biden administration will have the ability.












						Biden administration says it’s pushing Ramallah to reform terror payment policy
					

State Department official says US closely tracking requirements under Taylor Force Act; Palestinian official says Ramallah exploring alternatives to current rules for stipends




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




NEW YORK — The Biden administration is committed to pushing the Palestinian Authority to reform its welfare policy that includes payments to security prisoners and families of Palestinians killed while carrying out terror attacks, a senior State Department official told The Times of Israel.

“There should be no question about this. This has been a longstanding priority of prior administrations and remains a top US priority,” the senior official said Tuesday, speaking on the condition of anonymity and insisting that the reforms the administration is encouraging will be consistent with existing US laws.


----------



## Hollie

I hope no Pally parent missed their chance for registration. Prepping your child for an early death to make Islamic terrorist franchises rich is what islamo-parenting is all about.










						Palestinian Youth Camps Begin: Military Training for ‘Demise of Jews’
					

Hamas opened registration for their annual summer camps for Gaza youth, where children are trained in marksmanship, kidnapping.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Palestinian Terror Youth Summer Camps Begin: Military Training, Indoctrination, Planning ‘Demise of all Jews, Israel’


Hamas’ military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, as well as the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, have opened registration recently for their annual summer camps for Gaza youth, where children as young as nine are trained in marksmanship, kidnapping, and tunnel warfare, as they’re encouraged to become next-generation terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center issued its analysisof the names of the people killed in Gaza. 

They have identified 234 killed in attacks by Israel of which 112 (48%) were positively identified as terrorists. 63 belonged to Hamas, 20 to the PIJ, 25 to Fatah, two to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), one to the Mujahedeen Brigades and one to the Popular Resistance Committees. 

11 more men may have been targeted as terrorists but the ITIC could not identify any affiliation for them. 

An additional 21 were identified as being killed by Gaza rockets.

I count 31 people killed because they were in the same house as a terrorist target, effectively human shields for terrorists. Most of the other civilians were killed from Israel targeting other valid military targets.

(full article online)









						Initial report from Meir Amit ITIC names 112 terrorists killed, 21 killed by rocket fire, 31 human shields for terrorists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center issued its analysisof the names of the people killed in Gaza.
> 
> They have identified 234 killed in attacks by Israel of which 112 (48%) were positively identified as terrorists. 63 belonged to Hamas, 20 to the PIJ, 25 to Fatah, two to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), one to the Mujahedeen Brigades and one to the Popular Resistance Committees.
> 
> 11 more men may have been targeted as terrorists but the ITIC could not identify any affiliation for them.
> 
> An additional 21 were identified as being killed by Gaza rockets.
> 
> I count 31 people killed because they were in the same house as a terrorist target, effectively human shields for terrorists. Most of the other civilians were killed from Israel targeting other valid military targets.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Initial report from Meir Amit ITIC names 112 terrorists killed, 21 killed by rocket fire, 31 human shields for terrorists
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com





Sixties Fan said:


> The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center


It is an Israeli propaganda organization.

The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC) was established in 2002. It is part of the Israel Intelligence Heritage and Commemoration Center (IICC), a national site dedicated to the memory of fallen of the Israeli intelligence community.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem. Based on the narrative of victimization and distorted reality, PA TV praised the terrorists as those who "refused to submit to the occupation.”



> "Since the occupation of [Jerusalem], the residents of the village [Jabel Mukaber] (i.e., neighborhood of Jerusalem) have not stopped their resistance for one day against the arbitrary acts of the occupation that are manifested in the theft of their lands, the arrest of their children, and the destruction of their homes. The village [Jabel Mukaber] gave Martyrs for the sake of Jerusalem like Martyr Fadi Al-Qunbar, Baha Alyan, Alaa Abu Jamal, and many others who refused to submit to the occupation that is making their lives bitter, and to its blockade on the village of Jabel Mukaber.”
> [Official PA TV News, June 26, 2021]


While in practice, the actions attributed to Israel - arrests, demolition of houses and the imposition of closure - were taken only *in response* to terrorist acts committed by residents of the neighborhood, according to the PA narrative all the arrests, house demolitions and closures were entirely arbitrary and lacked any cause, justification or background.

(full article online)









						Official PA TV praises terrorist murderers who were residents of Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
					

In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In contrast, the day after the end of Operation Guardian of the Walls – May 22nd – saw BBC Arabic presenter Iman al-Qassir defending a contributor’s use of the word ‘Yahud’ on the programme ‘Talking Point’.

The first contributor was Omar Rajoub from Dura, near Hebron, who was identified as a Fatah speaker.

Rajoub: “The victory which the Palestinian people achieved, it [the people] was united behind the banner of [waging] war on the Jews and fighting them and the liberation of Palestinian land.”

When the second contributor – independent researcher Dr Edy Cohen – took issue with the use of the phrase ‘the Jews’, the presenter insisted that “he did not incite, he is free to have his opinion”. 

(full article online )









						BBC Arabic host defends contributor’s reference to ‘war on the Jews’
					

By CAMERA Arabic and CAMERA UK  Long-time readers may recall the BBC’s defence of its mistranslation of the Arabic word ‘Yahud’ (Jews) as ‘Israeli’




					camera-uk.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

As NPR reported in 2014, in an article addressing both the attack tunnels to Israel and the smuggling tunnels to Egypt:



> Over the past week, Israel said its troops had at least two separate firefights with militants coming out of tunnels into Israeli territory. The military said weapons, Israeli uniforms, plastic handcuffs, and tranquilizers have been found in tunnels — tools for both potential attacks and potential kidnappings, Israel says.
> 
> One of those tunnels emerged near Israel's Kibbutz Nir Am, a lush gated community just a few hundred yards away from the northern tip of the Gaza Strip. Five Hamas gunmen shot dead four Israeli soldiers before they were killed themselves in a battle Monday.


Indeed, Gilad Shalit, who spent five years incommunicado in a Hamas prison in the Gaza Strip, can confirm Shapiro's information. Shalit, who got married last week, wasn't captured in a smuggling mission (indeed, smugglers aren't generally in the hostage-taking/prisoner exchange business), but in an unprovoked cross-border attack in which seven armed terrorists entered Israeli through a tunnel, killing two soldiers wounding five.

In a second straightforward factual error, Roblin overstates the unemployment rate in the Gaza Strip: "Over two million people inhabit the tiny coastal strip, and they must endure a 70 percent unemployment rate . . . " In fact, according to latest statistics published by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, Gaza unemployment for the first quarter of 2021 stands at 48 percent, not 70 percent. 

Beyond the blatant factual errors, Roblin's article is marred by grossly tendentious reporting. For instance, he links to _The Guardian_ to propagandize that Gaza Strip as an "open-air prison," he writes:









						Daily Beast Errs on Hamas Tunnels, Gaza Unemployment
					

No, those cross-border Hamas tunnels into Israel aren't for 'smuggling.' Sébastien Roblin, a reporter specializing in international affairs, security and military history, also significantly




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah and Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh on Tuesday met in Beirut, reportedly to discuss the effects of and possible responses to last month’s 11-day war between Israel and Gaza-Strip-based terrorist groups.

Nasrallah and Haniyeh focused on learning from the latest conflict how to further cooperate and coordinate their military activities against Israel.

The two stressed “the depth of the existing relationship between Hezbollah and Hamas and its key position in this blessed axis [of “resistance” led by Iran] and in this decisive battle [against the Jewish state].”

While the terror masterminds attempted to portray strength and a unified front, many Israeli analysts viewed the meeting as a sign of “distress.” It comes at a time when Hezbollah is struggling to offset a potential total financial collapse in Lebanon, and with Hamas’ capabilities having been significantly diminished following the fighting in May.

Prior to visiting Beirut, Haniyeh headed a Hamas delegation to Egypt, Morocco and Mauritania.

(full article online)









						Report: Biden Admin Opposes Tying Gaza Reconstruction to Release of Israeli Captives; Hezbollah, Hamas Chiefs Meet, Speak of 'Decisive Battle' Against Jewish State | Honest Reporting
					

Jerusalem expressed worries about the Iran Deal talks, and Mahmoud Abbas has urged Biden to cancel a law that deems his PLO a terror group.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem. Based on the narrative of victimization and distorted reality, PA TV praised the terrorists as those who "refused to submit to the occupation.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Since the occupation of [Jerusalem], the residents of the village [Jabel Mukaber] (i.e., neighborhood of Jerusalem) have not stopped their resistance for one day against the arbitrary acts of the occupation that are manifested in the theft of their lands, the arrest of their children, and the destruction of their homes. The village [Jabel Mukaber] gave Martyrs for the sake of Jerusalem like Martyr Fadi Al-Qunbar, Baha Alyan, Alaa Abu Jamal, and many others who refused to submit to the occupation that is making their lives bitter, and to its blockade on the village of Jabel Mukaber.”
> [Official PA TV News, June 26, 2021]
> 
> 
> 
> While in practice, the actions attributed to Israel - arrests, demolition of houses and the imposition of closure - were taken only *in response* to terrorist acts committed by residents of the neighborhood, according to the PA narrative all the arrests, house demolitions and closures were entirely arbitrary and lacked any cause, justification or background.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official PA TV praises terrorist murderers who were residents of Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
Click to expand...

Palestinians resisting Israeli aggression.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem. Based on the narrative of victimization and distorted reality, PA TV praised the terrorists as those who "refused to submit to the occupation.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Since the occupation of [Jerusalem], the residents of the village [Jabel Mukaber] (i.e., neighborhood of Jerusalem) have not stopped their resistance for one day against the arbitrary acts of the occupation that are manifested in the theft of their lands, the arrest of their children, and the destruction of their homes. The village [Jabel Mukaber] gave Martyrs for the sake of Jerusalem like Martyr Fadi Al-Qunbar, Baha Alyan, Alaa Abu Jamal, and many others who refused to submit to the occupation that is making their lives bitter, and to its blockade on the village of Jabel Mukaber.”
> [Official PA TV News, June 26, 2021]
> 
> 
> 
> While in practice, the actions attributed to Israel - arrests, demolition of houses and the imposition of closure - were taken only *in response* to terrorist acts committed by residents of the neighborhood, according to the PA narrative all the arrests, house demolitions and closures were entirely arbitrary and lacked any cause, justification or background.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official PA TV praises terrorist murderers who were residents of Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians resisting Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

Pally gee-had is Hamas summer camp for grownups.


----------



## Hollie

Telling us what we already know. The insular, sociopathic nature of the Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the West Bank raise generation after generation of sociopaths. They want their children to die in horrible ways and they establish the conditions to make that happen.












						EU finally releases report of incitement, antisemitism in PA textbooks
					

The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.




					www.jpost.com
				




EU finally releases report of incitement, antisemitism in PA textbooks​The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.​By LAHAV HARKOV 
JUNE 20, 2021 18:32






Palestinian children learn Islamic lessons on summer vacation as COVID-19 restrictions ease in Gaza.



The European Union has released its report on Palestinian Authority textbooks four months after its completion, showing instances of antisemitism and incitement to violence.

Friday’s release of the report – excerpts from which were first published in The Jerusalem Post earlier this month – sparked condemnations across the European Parliament.

The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.


----------



## Hollie

​​​







						Hamas continues recruiting child soldiers: Where is the condemnation?
					

Hamas says the youth need to be ready to make “sacrifices” which appears to be the language used to describe the terrorist group recruiting them to be killed.




					www.jpost.com
				



Hamas continues recruiting child soldiers: Where is the condemnation?​Hamas says the youth need to be ready to make “sacrifices” which appears to be the language used to describe the terrorist group recruiting them to be killed.​By SETH J. FRANTZMAN 
JUNE 27, 2021 23:16











The Pally willingness to breed generation after generation of children to be tossed onto the bonfire of Islamic gee-had gets an occasional write up but there seems to be a growing sense of indifference to it.

It's what they do. It's sick and perverted but using their dead children as a means to plead for money from the West maintains cash flow for the alphabet soup collection of Islamic terrorist franchises vying for the infidel welfare payments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Telling us what we already know. The insular, sociopathic nature of the Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the West Bank raise generation after generation of sociopaths. They want their children to die in horrible ways and they establish the conditions to make that happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU finally releases report of incitement, antisemitism in PA textbooks
> 
> 
> The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU finally releases report of incitement, antisemitism in PA textbooks​The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.​By LAHAV HARKOV
> JUNE 20, 2021 18:32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children learn Islamic lessons on summer vacation as COVID-19 restrictions ease in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> The European Union has released its report on Palestinian Authority textbooks four months after its completion, showing instances of antisemitism and incitement to violence.
> 
> Friday’s release of the report – excerpts from which were first published in The Jerusalem Post earlier this month – sparked condemnations across the European Parliament.
> 
> The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.


The truth is antisemitic.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem. Based on the narrative of victimization and distorted reality, PA TV praised the terrorists as those who "refused to submit to the occupation.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Since the occupation of [Jerusalem], the residents of the village [Jabel Mukaber] (i.e., neighborhood of Jerusalem) have not stopped their resistance for one day against the arbitrary acts of the occupation that are manifested in the theft of their lands, the arrest of their children, and the destruction of their homes. The village [Jabel Mukaber] gave Martyrs for the sake of Jerusalem like Martyr Fadi Al-Qunbar, Baha Alyan, Alaa Abu Jamal, and many others who refused to submit to the occupation that is making their lives bitter, and to its blockade on the village of Jabel Mukaber.”
> [Official PA TV News, June 26, 2021]
> 
> 
> 
> While in practice, the actions attributed to Israel - arrests, demolition of houses and the imposition of closure - were taken only *in response* to terrorist acts committed by residents of the neighborhood, according to the PA narrative all the arrests, house demolitions and closures were entirely arbitrary and lacked any cause, justification or background.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official PA TV praises terrorist murderers who were residents of Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians resisting Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

Can yo give some examples of Palestinians “resisting” Israeli aggression ?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Telling us what we already know. The insular, sociopathic nature of the Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the West Bank raise generation after generation of sociopaths. They want their children to die in horrible ways and they establish the conditions to make that happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU finally releases report of incitement, antisemitism in PA textbooks
> 
> 
> The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU finally releases report of incitement, antisemitism in PA textbooks​The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.​By LAHAV HARKOV
> JUNE 20, 2021 18:32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children learn Islamic lessons on summer vacation as COVID-19 restrictions ease in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> The European Union has released its report on Palestinian Authority textbooks four months after its completion, showing instances of antisemitism and incitement to violence.
> 
> Friday’s release of the report – excerpts from which were first published in The Jerusalem Post earlier this month – sparked condemnations across the European Parliament.
> 
> The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is antisemitic.
Click to expand...

Indeed. If only you were semiconscious.

"The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.''


----------



## Hollie

It's comical how the Pally islamic terrorist franchise assigns various titles to the endless list of organizations, committees, ''Ministries'', etc., that exist only as labels on letterhead. There is something called the ''Palestinian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Emigrants'', which is dealing with a kerfuffle tied to the German government. 

The Pally Ministry of ''_Tbey Said What_?'' missed this gem of an announcement: "the ICC has settled the issue of jurisdiction and its authority to investigate crimes committed by Israeli officials in the occupied territory of the state of Palestine.”

The ''State of Pal'istan''?






__





						Palestine’s FM denounces statements by the German president regarding jurisdiction of the ICC
					






					english.wafa.ps
				




RAMALLAH, Thursday, July 01, 2021 (WAFA) - The Palestinian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Emigrants today expressed its strong disapproval of German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier’s statements on the work of the International Criminal Court (ICC), condemning what it described as “the German president's departure from the rules of international law and interference in the work of the ICC, its decisions, and the decision of the Prosecutor to open a criminal investigation into crimes committed within its jurisdiction.”

It said in a statement that “the ICC has settled the issue of jurisdiction and its authority to investigate crimes committed by Israeli officials in the occupied territory of the state of Palestine.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

This weekend, July 3, will mark three years since Israel adopted the “Law to freeze money that the Palestinian Authority has paid in connection with terrorism from the money transferred to it by the government of Israel, 2018” – popularly known as Israel’s “Anti-Pay-for-Slay” law. When the law passed, the members of Israel’s Parliament who promoted the law, MPs Avi Dichter and Elazar Stern, specifically thanked Palestinian Media Watch for helping to formulate and sculpt the law.

In a nutshell, the law provides that every year the Israeli Minister of Defense presents a report to the Israeli Security Cabinet in which he details how much the Palestinian Authority spent in the previous year paying financial rewards to imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, wounded terrorists, and the families of dead terrorists – collectively known as the PA’s ”Pay-for-Slay” payments. Once approved, that sum is then deducted, in twelve installments, from the tax revenues that Israel agreed to waive in favor of the PA, as part of the Oslo Accords.

The rationale underpinning the law was provided by PMW. In its presentations, PMW proved that instead of using the tax revenues to fulfill its duty to combat terror, the PA was using the tax revenues to implement its pugnacious terror reward policy.

Since passed, the Security Cabinet has approved three of the four reports submitted by the Minister of Defense (the approval of the fourth report is pending). Symbolically, pursuant to these decisions, and in coincidental coordination with the anniversary of the passage of the law, today also marks the day when over one billion shekels have been deducted from the tax revenues.

The first decision to implement the law was made by the Security Cabinet in February 2019, shortly after the brutal murder of Ori Ansbacher. In that decision, the Security Cabinet decided to deduct a sum of approximately 502 million shekels ($138,572,080 at the time of the decision) – the sum PMW exposed as reflecting the PA’s payments to the terrorist prisoners and released prisoners in 2018. In the decision, the Security Cabinet instructed the Minister of Defense to present an additional report regarding the PA’s payments in 2018 to the wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorists. 

(full article online)









						PA loses a billion shekels because of its terror reward policy | PMW Analysis
					

This weekend, July 3, will mark three years since Israel adopted the “Law to freeze money that the Palestinian Authority has paid in connection with terrorism from the money transferred to it by the government of Israel, 2018”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

All of the various entities which shower welfare money on the islamic terrorists in the PA and Hamas know with certainty that they are financing islamic terrorist. There is shared responsibility for the actions of the the islamic terrorist franchises with every welfare dollar thrown at them. 











						US taxpayers shouldn’t subsidize Palestinian corruption, terror and intransigence
					

How does a president supposedly interested in democracy and human rights justify violating U.S. law, strengthening an autocracy, subsidizing terrorism and anti-Semitism and undermining his own goal of a two-state solution?




					www.jns.org
				





COLUMN
MITCHELL BARD
US taxpayers shouldn’t subsidize Palestinian corruption, terror and intransigence

How does a president supposedly interested in democracy and human rights justify violating U.S. law, strengthening an autocracy, subsidizing terrorism and anti-Semitism and undermining his own goal of a two-state solution?

(June 30, 2021 / JNS) The Biden administration is determined to provide aid to the Palestinians in violation of the spirit, if not the letter of the Taylor Force Act, which bars U.S. aid from going to the Palestinian Authority (PA) so long as it continues its pay-to-slay policy. PA President Mahmoud Abbas has repeatedly said he will not end the payments to terrorists and, in recent months, has tried to restructure the means of payments in hopes President Joe Biden will ignore the deception.


----------



## Sixties Fan

> But in 2012 his widow, Suha El Kodwa Arafat, said traces of the radioactive isotope polonium 210 had been found on his clothes, prompting a French lawsuit alleging his murder.
> 
> After a series of analyses and witness interviews, a court in Nanterre, west of Paris, dismissed the case, a ruling upheld on appeal.
> 
> Lawyers for Arafat's widow said the investigation had been "fundamentally biased" and accused the judges of closing the probe too quickly.
> 
> Arafat's wife and daughter turned to the European court in 2017, saying they had been refused their right to a fair hearing, in particular a refusal of their request for an additional expert report on his death.
> 
> In a unanimous decision, three judges said that after reviewing the case, "at all stages of the proceedings the applicants, assisted by their lawyers, had been able to exercise their rights effectively".
> 
> "Judges did not appear to have reached arbitrary conclusions based on the facts before them and their interpretation of the evidence in the file or the applicable law had not been unreasonable," they added.



Palestinians' lives would improve markedly if they could ever admit the truth and not insist forever that the world accept their lies.

(full article online)









						European court throws out "Arafat was poisoned" case
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> But in 2012 his widow, Suha El Kodwa Arafat, said traces of the radioactive isotope polonium 210 had been found on his clothes, prompting a French lawsuit alleging his murder.
> 
> After a series of analyses and witness interviews, a court in Nanterre, west of Paris, dismissed the case, a ruling upheld on appeal.
> 
> Lawyers for Arafat's widow said the investigation had been "fundamentally biased" and accused the judges of closing the probe too quickly.
> 
> Arafat's wife and daughter turned to the European court in 2017, saying they had been refused their right to a fair hearing, in particular a refusal of their request for an additional expert report on his death.
> 
> In a unanimous decision, three judges said that after reviewing the case, "at all stages of the proceedings the applicants, assisted by their lawyers, had been able to exercise their rights effectively".
> 
> "Judges did not appear to have reached arbitrary conclusions based on the facts before them and their interpretation of the evidence in the file or the applicable law had not been unreasonable," they added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians' lives would improve markedly if they could ever admit the truth and not insist forever that the world accept their lies.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European court throws out "Arafat was poisoned" case
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
Click to expand...


Poor Yasser, he got some bad dick.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic gee-had is always about the next war as gee-had knows no passage of time. 

With Hamas preparing for their next war of aggression, Israel will need to prepare targeting strategies for the next two week long beatdown of Hamas, PIJ and other islamic terrorist franchises. 













						After Guns Go Quiet, Hamas Works With Hezbollah and Iran to Learn Lessons for Next War
					

Palestinian children look on as Islamic Jihad militants stand guard following Israel-Hamas truce, in Gaza May 21, 2021. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




After Guns Go Quiet, Hamas Works With Hezbollah and Iran to Learn Lessons for Next War​​



Palestinian children look on as Islamic Jihad militants stand guard following Israel-Hamas truce, in Gaza May 21, 2021. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa

Over a month after the conflict between Israel and Hamas came to an end, a deceptive calm has taken hold, and a new, fateful learning competition is underway.
Hamas, the radical Islamist regime that rules Gaza, is working with its allies in the Shiite axis — Iran and Hezbollah — to study the latest conflict and share lessons that can help in the next war.


----------



## Hollie

Poor, oppressed Ashraf Hassan is going to have to give up the good life in Israel and the associated benefits of a modern, educated society. I think he may find the Arab-Moslem paradise of the Pally territories are a bit lacking by comparison but hey, Ashraf, be all you can be... absent indoor plumbing. 












						Israel’s Interior Minister Signs Off on Revocation of Hamas Terrorist’s Citizenship
					

Yamina Party chairwoman Ayelet Shaked speaks at the Conference of the Manufacturers Association in Tel Aviv, on September 2, 2019. …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





_JNS.org_ – Israeli Interior Minister Ayelet Shaked signed off Tuesday on the denaturalization of Ashraf Hassan, a member of Hamas.

Shaked based her decision on information she received from military officials, who told her Hassan had orchestrated an attack on an Israeli soldier and taken advantage of his Israeli citizenship to move around the country freely in pursuit of his plans


----------



## Hollie

Like minded representatives of the Shia Islamic terrorist franchise having a meeting. 

Being banned from the territories occupied by the Pallys means the Iranian Mullicrats need to prop Haniyeh in front of a camera every once in a while. 













						Hamas leader Haniyeh meets Hezbollah chief Nasrallah in Beirut
					

Two terror group heads said to have discussed recent fighting between Israel and Gaza-based terror groups




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Hamas political bureau chief Ismail Haniyeh and Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah met in Beirut on Tuesday, as the Gaza-based terror chief held a series of high-level meetings around the Arab world.

The two were said to discuss the recent 11-day bout of fighting between Israel and Gaza-based terror groups led by Hamas, and how they could build on the experience of the latest round of violence.

“Nasrallah and Haniyeh affirmed the depth of the relationship between Hezbollah and Hamas, and its primary position in the axis of resistance,” according to the pro-Hezbollah Lebanese TV station al-Mayadeen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: Can an non-Zionist Israeli come live in Palestine?​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> "The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.''


Like?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.''
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
Click to expand...

Like you need a conspiracy theory?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Bennett-Lapid government is planning to put an end to the phenomenon whereby Qatar's monthly grants to the Gaza Strip enter the coastal enclave in the form of suitcases full of cash, _Channel 12 News _reported on Friday.

According to the report, the existing procedure will be replaced with a mechanism for transferring the money through a UN fund, which will make it possible to monitor where the money goes to.

A UN-funded transfer mechanism will allow the funds to be transferred for projects where the money can be monitored.

(full article online)









						Government to end phenomenon of 'cash suitcases' to Gaza
					

Israeli government reportedly planning to change the way the Qatari money enters Gaza, implement mechanism for transferring the money through a UN fund.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

There's something about Pally terrorists and their hurt feelings. 











						Hamas slams UAE foreign minister over terrorism label
					

Palestinian resistance group Hamas has rejected statements by United Arab Emirates (UAE) Foreign Minister Abdullah bin Zayed linking the group to terrorism, reports Anadolu Agency.    'Bin Zayed's...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




Palestinian resistance group Hamas has rejected statements by United Arab Emirates (UAE) Foreign Minister Abdullah bin Zayed linking the group to terrorism, reports _Anadolu Agency_.

"Bin Zayed's call for the western countries to designate Hamas as a terrorist group runs counter to Arab values," Hamas spokesman Hazem Qasim said on Twitter.


----------



## Hollie

It's so cute when these Allahu Akbar shouting Medieval loons work themselves into a froth.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Act of Aggression
⁜→  et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The report, completed in February, includes dozens of examples of encouragement of violence and demonization of Israel and of Jews.''
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
Click to expand...

*(ANSWER)*

[*LINK*]  In their own words.






_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

Khaled is very angry. He refers to Emir Abbas as a criminal murderer. We may read about Khaled falling out of Mahmoud's jet.. from 10,000 ft. agl.​
​*Gaza Politician Khaled Abu Hilal: We Demand The Death Penalty For All The 'Criminal Murderers' Who Took Part In Killing Activist Nizar Banat, Including President Abbas and Prime Minister Shtayyeh*​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Meir Rubin brought his two young children for an overnight hiking trip in a forest near Jerusalem - and Arabs almost burned them alive.​
(full article online)









						Father: 'Arabs thugs tried to burn me alive with my children'
					

Meir Rubin brought his two young children for an overnight hiking trip in a forest near Jerusalem - and Arabs almost burned them alive.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town of Esh Kodesh, are chased out by IDF, local residents.​(full article online)









						Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town, hurl pipe bomb
					

Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town of Esh Kodesh, are chased out by IDF, local residents.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> Meir Rubin brought his two young children for an overnight hiking trip in a forest near Jerusalem - and Arabs almost burned them alive.​
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Father: 'Arabs thugs tried to burn me alive with my children'
> 
> 
> Meir Rubin brought his two young children for an overnight hiking trip in a forest near Jerusalem - and Arabs almost burned them alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israelnationalnews.com



Not once did the link show any proof the Arabs started the fires.


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## Rigby5

Sixties Fan said:


> Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town of Esh Kodesh, are chased out by IDF, local residents.​(full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town, hurl pipe bomb
> 
> 
> Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town of Esh Kodesh, are chased out by IDF, local residents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israelnationalnews.com



If you look back at a map from 1947, you will see there are not Jewish towns, and there are hundred of Arab towns that no longer exist because they were brutally massacred by Zionist fanatics.
When the 200 Arab residents of Deir Yassin were all murdered, the most barbaric means possible was used, hand grenades.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town of Esh Kodesh, are chased out by IDF, local residents.​(full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town, hurl pipe bomb
> 
> 
> Arab rioters infiltrate Jewish town of Esh Kodesh, are chased out by IDF, local residents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israelnationalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look back at a map from 1947, you will see there are not Jewish towns, and there are hundred of Arab towns that no longer exist because they were brutally massacred by Zionist fanatics.
> When the 200 Arab residents of Deir Yassin were all murdered, the most barbaric means possible was used, hand grenades.
Click to expand...


They kicked a LOT of Arab ass.


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## Hollie

"Praising terrorist murderers"​Standard behavior for the Arab-Moslem Death Cultists.
​​Official PA TV praises terrorist murderers who were residents of Jerusalem​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jun 30, 2021
In a continuing effort to encourage Arab residents of Jerusalem to carry out terrorist acts, official Palestinian television chose to praise three murderous terrorists who lived in the Jabel Mukaber neighbourhood of Jerusalem. Based on the narrative of victimization and distorted reality, PA TV praised the terrorists as those who "refused to submit to the occupation.”









> "Since the occupation of [Jerusalem], the residents of the village [Jabel Mukaber] (i.e., neighborhood of Jerusalem) have not stopped their resistance for one day against the arbitrary acts of the occupation that are manifested in the theft of their lands, the arrest of their children, and the destruction of their homes. The village [Jabel Mukaber] gave Martyrs for the sake of Jerusalem like Martyr Fadi Al-Qunbar, Baha Alyan, Alaa Abu Jamal, and many others who refused to submit to the occupation that is making their lives bitter, and to its blockade on the village of Jabel Mukaber.”
> [Official PA TV News, June 26, 2021


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

A cartoon published by the official PA daily shows the PA map of “Palestine” erasing the entire State of Israel, thereby visually expressing the PA ideology that does not recognize Israel’s right to exist in any borders. [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 21, 2021]

The cartoon shows planet Earth seen from space, prominently featuring the map always used by the PA that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” The map has a massive Palestinian flag planted in it, signaling Palestinian sovereignty over the entire area, including all of the State of Israel.

It also exemplifies another of the PA’s messages: That Israel will come to an end. Palestinian Media Watch has exposed numerous statements to that effect made by PA and Fatah officials. Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki said earlier this year that both America and Israel “will disappear”:










(full article online)









						There is no Israel, only “Palestine” – PA cartoon erases the entire State of Israel | PMW Analysis
					

A cartoon published by the official PA daily shows the PA map of “Palestine” erasing the entire State of Israel, thereby visually expressing the PA ideology that does not recognize Israel’s right to exist in any borders




					palwatch.org


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel’s right to exist in any borders.


Israeli talking point.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s right to exist in any borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

A decade of the same slogans.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s right to exist in any borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A decade of the same slogans.
Click to expand...

Decades of the same Israeli talking points.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s right to exist in any borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A decade of the same slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Decades of the same Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Decades of kicking Arab ass.


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## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meir Rubin brought his two young children for an overnight hiking trip in a forest near Jerusalem - and Arabs almost burned them alive.​
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Father: 'Arabs thugs tried to burn me alive with my children'
> 
> 
> Meir Rubin brought his two young children for an overnight hiking trip in a forest near Jerusalem - and Arabs almost burned them alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israelnationalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not once did the link show any proof the Arabs started the fires.
Click to expand...


From the horses mouth...

As night falls, hundreds of young men head to Jabal Sbeih (Mount Sbeih) and the surrounding area in the town of Beita in the northern West Bank to start organizing various activities, including what is known as “night confusion,” which lasts until dawn.

The aim of these activities is to disturb the settlers who established a settlement outpost called Eviatar atop Jabal Sbeih.

Since the beginning of the construction of the outpost on Jabal Sbeih on May 3, the residents of Beita began to resist the settlers as they were inspired by the “night confusion” activities during the return marches that erupted in March 2018 in the Gaza Strip near the barbed wire fence with Israel.

The young men in Beita have been engaging in such activities on a daily basis.

The night confusion is a popular night protest activity during which young people use various means aimed at disturbing the settlers and confusing the Israeli army, such as* igniting rubber tires* near the outpost so that the smoke rises toward the army.













						West Bank town draws inspiration from Gaza ‘night confusion’ activities to confront settlers
					

Some West Bank villages and towns have drawn inspiration from the Gaza Strip night confusion activities as they embarked on confronting settlement outposts established on their lands, and the town of Beita is now serving as a model.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




*Q*. _"Jews will not replace us! Jews will not replace us!..." _
or was is this from a different gathering?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s right to exist in any borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A decade of the same slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Decades of the same Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Decades of kicking Arab ass.
Click to expand...

Thank you for reminding us of Israel's crimes.


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Thank you for reminding us of Israel's crimes.



Arabs are whiney pussies, what can I say?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The small print says "Based on a random sample conducted by Euro-Med Monitor."

A random sample of whom?

There is no methodology described. Did they interview children? Parents? Doctors? How did they randomize the people they sampled? Who diagnosed them with trauma - psychiatrists or parents? What was the exact question asked?

We don't know. 

What we do know is that the Euro Med Monitor has, in the past, has shown it is pro-terror and regularly lies about Gaza deaths. In fact, their most recent report on Gaza shows that the pattern continues. For example, it counts Bashar Ahmed Ibrahim Samour as an innocent child when Fatah refers to him as a "hero martyr."  It says




> Killing four civilians in Nuseirat
> On May 12, an Israeli aircraft bombed with a single missile a group of civilians in the Nuseirat camp in the central Gaza Strip, killing four of them: Hamza Mahmoud Al-Hor, 25, Muhammad Abdel Moneim Shaheen, 27, and Muhammad Mu›in al-Qarah, 26, Ahmed Walid Al Talaa, 29.


All four of them were Islamic Jihad terrorists. Here are Shaheen and Talaa. 

(full article online)









						Making up numbers out of thin air: "Nine out of ten children in Gaza suffer trauma"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s right to exist in any borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A decade of the same slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Decades of the same Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

What ''talking points"? Can you copy and paste a youtube video to explain what that is?


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## Hollie

The balloon gee-had continues as does the islamo-beatdown from the IAF. 











						Israel strikes Hamas targets in response to incendiary balloons
					

“The IDF will continue to respond firmly against terror attempts from the Gaza Strip."




					www.jpost.com
				




IAF aircraft struck a Hamas weapons manufacturing facility in Gaza in response to incendiary balloons that were launched towards Israel earlier in the day, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit said in a statement Thursday night.


----------



## Hollie

UN agrees to take over distribution of Qatari funds in Gaza — report
					

Palestinian newspaper says both Israel and Hamas okay with move, quotes sources saying funds won't go through banks controlled by Gaza-ruling terror group




					www.timesofisrael.com
				


UN agrees to take over distribution of Qatari funds in Gaza — report​Palestinian newspaper says both Israel and Hamas okay with move, quotes sources saying funds won’t go through banks controlled by Gaza-ruling terror group​


Palestinians receive their financial aid as part of funds allocated by Qatar, at a post office in Gaza City on May 19, 2019. (Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)





Gee, whz. For all the infidel / Great Satan hatred spewed by the Pali terrorists, they sure like our infidel / Great Satan welfare money.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Because women generally fall under less scrutiny than men, Jaber’s role was to recruit Israeli Arab women as Hezbollah spies to provide information for the planning and execution of terror attacks.

Jaber used social media posts on Instagram to communicate with her handlers, sending coded messages via the captions, prosecutors said.

(full article online)









						Jerusalem librarian was Hezbollah spy, rules Israeli court | World Israel News
					

Jaber, a 26-year-old resident of east Jerusalem, accepted a plea bargain in exchange for the lenient prison sentence.




					worldisraelnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Sometimes there is justice ]









						Former MK Hanin Zoabi reaches plea agreement
					

Hanin Zoabi will agree to a suspended sentence and a fine as part of a plea deal after she was charged with forgery and fraud.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

The Magical Kingdom of Pally'land.​
Jordan wants their flag back, BTW. 

​There is no Israel, only “Palestine” – PA cartoon erases the entire State of Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 4, 2021





A cartoon published by the official PA daily shows the PA map of “Palestine” erasing the entire State of Israel, thereby visually expressing the PA ideology that does not recognize Israel’s right to exist in any borders. [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 21, 2021]

The cartoon shows planet Earth seen from space, prominently featuring the map always used by the PA that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” The map has a massive Palestinian flag planted in it, signaling Palestinian sovereignty over the entire area, including all of the State of Israel.


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## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Islamic terrorists, 

Hamas is in a snit because Qatari welfare money won't be delivered in suitcases. 











						Hamas Demands Its Members be Added to List of Families Supported by Qatari Grants
					

The PA has no way to determine who in Gaza actually receives the Qatari money.




					www.jewishpress.com
				








Al-Akhbar added that Hamas may agree to transfer the funds through the banks and not in the cash suitcases as long as the funds arrive without deducting any amount from the grant intended for poor families.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lebanon's _Al Akhbar _newspaper, which is connected with the Hezbollah terror group, on Monday reported that the Gaza terror groups warned the Egyptian negotiators that renewed fighting with Israel is closer than ever.

Hamas sources spoke with the paper, revealing that Egypt had requested that the terror groups refrain from escalating the situation before the end of the week, in order to allow time to receive the Israeli delegation's response, which is expected in Cairo in the middle of this week.

(full article online)









						Lebanese report: Renewed fighting with Gaza 'closer than ever'
					

Egypt requesting Hamas hold off on next clash with Israel - until next week, report says.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

(Fool me once....)

The source estimated that Hamas will work to ensure that the funds reach its people one way or another, and Monday morning Al-Akhbar reported that Hamas demands that names be added to the list of needy families and that it does not oppose the new mechanism.

(full article online)









						Hamas Demands Its Members be Added to List of Families Supported by Qatari Grants
					

The PA has no way to determine who in Gaza actually receives the Qatari money.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
Click to expand...

All of those videos were to show that Gaza is not the "Poor, poor, poor, territory" that it keeps claiming to be.  And poor because of Israel.

Of course, you missed the message of endless waist when they build a city and no Palestinian wants to live there, or the message of " Where are the wealthy Palestinians, and why don't they help the poor, and why must the US, EU, and Qatar keep giving Gaza and the PA any money?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In his most recent book, the picture that Khalidi painted of Hussaini was as such: “[A] bitter split between those loyal to the mufti… and the mufti’s opponents, led by the former Jerusalem mayor Raghib Al-Nashashibi… resulted in hundreds of assassinations in the late 1930s [and] gravely sapped the strength of Palestinians.”

Al-Nashashibi was forced into exile in Beirut in 1938, “after his life was threatened and his house in Ramleh burned with the loss of all his books and papers. This was undoubtedly the work of the mufti’s men,” according to Khalidi.

So Mufti Hussaini was not only someone who did not see the moral failure in allying with Germany’s Hitler, he was also a charlatan who threatened the lives of his political rivals in Jerusalem and sent them into exile. And yet, the IPS celebrates Hussaini’s life as one of the founding fathers of the Palestinian national movement. Until those Palestinians start denouncing such characters and learning from their mistakes, their movement will remain as ethically and morally challenged as it is today.

(full article online)









						Will Palestinians denounce Mufti Hussaini, and Hitler?
					

Palestinian institute describes Hussaini’s alliance with Hiltler as “enemy of my enemy”




					hussainabdulhussain.substack.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Peace Talks on Neutral Ground
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,



Sixties Fan said:


> The source estimated that Hamas will work to ensure that the funds reach its people one way or another, and Monday morning Al-Akhbar reported that Hamas demands that names be added to the list of needy families and that it does not oppose the new mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Demands Its Members be Added to List of Families Supported by Qatari Grants
> 
> 
> The PA has no way to determine who in Gaza actually receives the Qatari money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure that this actually has any meaning.  How many times have we heard this song?

I'm not even sure that Israel will reap and benefit.  If the "Talks" produce some positive outcome, everyone but the Israelis will take credit for them.  (_I even saw the White House acting like they played some role in the facilitation of the "Talks."_)*PATHETIC*.

However, *IF* the "Talks" fail, *THEN* Israel will receive the lion's share of the blame for the collapse.





_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Peace Talks on Neutral Ground
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

(COMMENT)

I am not sure what is going on with the Arab Palestinians.  Who is the "Shot Caller" here?

✦  HAMAS (Gaza Government)​✦  Palestinian Authority (Ramallah Government)​✦  The PLO (sole representative)​
Does the "long-term ceasefire" _(as it has been called)_ cover civil disturbances in Jerusalem and the West Bank?





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Your considered, well supported comments, while a bit verbose, .... oh, never mind.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


>


Cash, cocaine and hookers for the PA, PNC, PLO and other Islamic terrorist slush funds?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Peace Talks on Neutral Ground
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The source estimated that Hamas will work to ensure that the funds reach its people one way or another, and Monday morning Al-Akhbar reported that Hamas demands that names be added to the list of needy families and that it does not oppose the new mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Demands Its Members be Added to List of Families Supported by Qatari Grants
> 
> 
> The PA has no way to determine who in Gaza actually receives the Qatari money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure that this actually has any meaning.  How many times have we heard this song?
> 
> I'm not even sure that Israel will reap and benefit.  If the "Talks" produce some positive outcome, everyone but the Israelis will take credit for them.  (_I even saw the White House acting like they played some role in the facilitation of the "Talks."_)*PATHETIC*.
> 
> However, *IF* the "Talks" fail, *THEN* Israel will receive the lion's share of the blame for the collapse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
Click to expand...

The talks will only fail if Israel insists that it keeps it aggression.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Peace Talks on Neutral Ground
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The source estimated that Hamas will work to ensure that the funds reach its people one way or another, and Monday morning Al-Akhbar reported that Hamas demands that names be added to the list of needy families and that it does not oppose the new mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Demands Its Members be Added to List of Families Supported by Qatari Grants
> 
> 
> The PA has no way to determine who in Gaza actually receives the Qatari money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not sure that this actually has any meaning.  How many times have we heard this song?
> 
> I'm not even sure that Israel will reap and benefit.  If the "Talks" produce some positive outcome, everyone but the Israelis will take credit for them.  (_I even saw the White House acting like they played some role in the facilitation of the "Talks."_)*PATHETIC*.
> 
> However, *IF* the "Talks" fail, *THEN* Israel will receive the lion's share of the blame for the collapse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The talks will only fail if Israel insists that it keeps it aggression.
Click to expand...

What aggression? 

Another empty, unsupported claim.


----------



## Hollie

Not even dinner and a fatwa for Nizar Banat, 

The competing Islamic terrorist franchises of the PA and Hamas settle their differences with guns, blunt force trauma and power tools. Nizar probably avoided the worst of the Pally dystopia. 








__





						Palestinian Activist’s Death A Reminder of the PA’s True Colors - Hamodia.com
					

Nizar Banat, an Arab carpenter and house painter who lived in Chevron, had been an outspoken opponent of the Palestinian Authority for many years. He




					hamodia.com
				




Nizar Banat, an Arab carpenter and house painter who lived in Chevron, had been an outspoken opponent of the Palestinian Authority for many years. He repeatedly focused attention on PA corruption and, most recently, posted on social media strong criticism of PA Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh over his refusal to accept Israel’s offer of more than one million soon-to-expire but currently needed Pfizer vaccines to the PA in exchange for an identical number of doses purchased by the PA and expected to arrive later this year.

Earlier this year, Mr. Banat formed a political party to contest PA parliamentary elections, which, in the end, were canceled by PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

According to Mr. Banat’s family, some 20 armed Palestinian soldiers stormed the family home last Thursday at 3:30 a.m. and brutally beat him before arresting him for violating the PA’s cybercrimes law, which limits what residents of the PA territories may post online.

The local PA governor announced that Mr. Banat had died. “During the arrest,” the governor, Jibrin Al Bakri, said, Mr. Banat’s “health deteriorated, and [while] he was immediately taken to Hebron hospital and after doctors checked on him, it appeared the citizen was already dead.”


----------



## Hollie

They're teen campers.​​This summer's graduating class of islamic sociopaths looks especially deranged. This will be a good crop of graduates to get in line for those virgins.​​







						Child at Islamic Jihad Gaza Summer Camp: Hitler Left Some of You Alive to Show Us How Wicked You Are; We Will Tear Your Bodies Apart with Our Rockets; PIJ Official: The Children of Palestine Will Sacrifice Their Blood and Body Parts
					

A teen camper, participating in the Islamic Jihad “Sword of Jerusalem” summer camp, said: “We did not come here to enjoy...




					www.memri.org
				


​Child at Islamic Jihad Gaza Summer Camp: Hitler Left Some of You Alive to Show Us How Wicked You Are; We Will Tear Your Bodies Apart with Our Rockets; PIJ Official: The Children of Palestine Will Sacrifice Their Blood and Body Parts​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel will send South Korea some 700,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine that are due to expire shortly in a deal signed between the two nations on Tuesday, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett announced, calling the deal a “win-win” situation for both countries.

The deal comes weeks after the Palestinian Authority backed out of a similar agreement, saying the vaccine doses were too close to their expiration date despite Israel using the same batches to vaccinate its teens.

Under the deal with Seoul, Israel will supply doses for immediate use that are set to expire by the end of the month. In return, Israel will receive the same number of doses from South Korean orders later in the year.

(full article online)









						After Palestinians reject deal, Israel to send 700,000 vaccines to South Korea
					

Under agreement with Seoul, Israel to deliver doses soon to expire and receive a similar number of shots in return at end of year from existing South Korean deal with Pfizer




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority has been arresting and attacking political opponents and protesters for years, but this is the first time that the Palestinian masses have been openly and publicly fighting back to a great extent.

Yesterday, there were more protests against the apparent murder of Nizar Banat in Ramallah. The PA police responded by arresting, beating and dragging many of the protesters.

When the PA arrested Abi Al-Aboudi and others, his wife, journalist Hind Sherida, went to the police station with her family and joined others in a protest chant to release the detainees. The police came out and beat, pepper sprayed and arrested the protesters, and pulled Sherida by the hair in front of her children. Her 77-year old father was pepper-sprayed and beaten. They then beat Hind inside the police station.

Many other well known figures were arrested and beaten: political activist  Omar Assaf, researcher Khaled Odallah, Omar Al-Jallad, Tayseer Al-Zabri, Adham Karajah, Hussam Barjas, Khaled Awad, Omar Al-Auri, Osama Al-Bdeir, Sri Othman Hammad , Adly Hanaysha, Bashir Al-Khairy, and Ahmed Al-Kharouf.

(full article online)









						Despite promises, the Palestinian Authority continues to violently arrest protesters, journalists, as opposition grows
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Murder of Nizar Banat by PA Security Forces Exposes Mahmoud Abbas as Lackey of Israel
					

Palestinians have vowed that Banat's death will not be in vain. His merciless execution has brought into sharp focus the futility of expecting Abbas and the PA to deliver freedom and justice.




					www.palestinechronicle.com
				




Murder of Nizar Banat by PA Security Forces Exposes Mahmoud Abbas as Lackey of Israel​
“Why was he killed?” is the cry of Palestinians protesting the brutal murder of Nizar Banat.

Demanding answers and justice, protesters have directed their anger at the Palestinian Authority (PA), whose security forces have been accused of being responsible for Banat’s death.

According to the author and activist Mazen Qumsiyeh based in Bethlehem, 43-year-old Nizar Banat became a victim of “the dictatorial and delusional rule of Mahmoud Abbas”.

His death at the hands of Abbas’s thugs has erupted fury across the Occupied Palestinian Territories and reignited demands for the immediate suspension of Oslo-birthed PA security forces.


----------



## Mindful

# Note how it begins only at the beginning of Ottoman rule in 1516. Which is strange for a people that claims to have a history going back one million years/or the Canaanites and Jebusites from over 3,500, or 5,000 or 10,000 years ago/or Philistines from 6,000 years ago. Even the Palestinian Information Center’s Timeline of Jerusalem went back as far as the Islamic Conquest!

Interestingly, despite clearly not wanting to go back too far to reveal the fact the Jews were here first, they do implicitly acknowledge that fact:


> Sovereignty over Jerusalem held special significance for the Muslim empire, which early on embarked on projects to rebuild the city’s walls and to renovate the Dome of the Rock (1537-1540). At the same time, the Ottomans acknowledged Christian and *Jewish rights to sites of religious significance*, managing a complex arrangement of privileges and access rights to these sites through a system known as the status quo. These regulations and understandings were based on accumulated customary practice and included rights acknowledged by earlier Muslim rulers and the decisions of Muslim courts in support of these rights, as well as Christian and Jewish commitments to adhere to customary practice.


A museum with no exhibits, whose digital platform represents their history as beginning with Turkish-Ottoman Rule almost 1500 years after the destruction of the second Jewish Temple.

Says it all really.









						Palestinian Museum's Chronology of Palestinian History Begins With Ottoman Rule
					

Back in 2016, I posted about the opening of the then new $24 million Palestinian Museum, a colossal waste of money with no exhibits




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*On the one hand, the PA has promised a thorough investigation of the incident; on the other, it is trying to buy the silence of the Banat family.*​
*While the PA is expressing regret for the incident, this is not the first time Banat suffered violence at the hands of the PA security apparatus.*​
*Demonstrations against the PA as a result of the death of Banat and frustration and unhappiness with the leadership in general, are being presented by the PA as if they are demonstrations on behalf of Hamas and other parties seeking to undermine and even over-throw the PA*​

(full article online)









						A tale of multiple realities - the death of PA critic Nizar Banat | PMW Analysis
					

On the one hand, the PA has promised a thorough investigation of the incident; on the other, it is trying to buy the silence of the Banat family.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

From The Action Group for Palestinians in Syria, June 25:




> Syrian security forces have tightened military grip around Deraa and its outskirts, south of Syria.
> 
> Local sources told AGPS that all access roads to the city centre have been blocked except for the Sajneh road, where three military checkpoints have been pitched.
> 
> Palestinian refugees have expressed concerns over a new wave of forced military conscription and arbitrary manhunts in the area.



This comes only a weeks after Palestinians who had been forced out of the Deraa area were allowed to return after three years - under Russian mediation:

(full article online)









						Palestinians in Syria in danger of being forced to become Syrian soldiers
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> # Note how it begins only at the beginning of Ottoman rule in 1516. Which is strange for a people that claims to have a history going back one million years/or the Canaanites and Jebusites from over 3,500, or 5,000 or 10,000 years ago/or Philistines from 6,000 years ago. Even the Palestinian Information Center’s Timeline of Jerusalem went back as far as the Islamic Conquest!
> 
> Interestingly, despite clearly not wanting to go back too far to reveal the fact the Jews were here first, they do implicitly acknowledge that fact:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty over Jerusalem held special significance for the Muslim empire, which early on embarked on projects to rebuild the city’s walls and to renovate the Dome of the Rock (1537-1540). At the same time, the Ottomans acknowledged Christian and *Jewish rights to sites of religious significance*, managing a complex arrangement of privileges and access rights to these sites through a system known as the status quo. These regulations and understandings were based on accumulated customary practice and included rights acknowledged by earlier Muslim rulers and the decisions of Muslim courts in support of these rights, as well as Christian and Jewish commitments to adhere to customary practice.
> 
> 
> 
> A museum with no exhibits, whose digital platform represents their history as beginning with Turkish-Ottoman Rule almost 1500 years after the destruction of the second Jewish Temple.
> 
> Says it all really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Museum's Chronology of Palestinian History Begins With Ottoman Rule
> 
> 
> Back in 2016, I posted about the opening of the then new $24 million Palestinian Museum, a colossal waste of money with no exhibits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israellycool.com
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

( This is what one gets from anyone who does not care about the Help, Search and Rescue  Israel does all over the world )

Anti-Israel activist Linda Sarsour sparked fresh accusations of anti-Semitism this week after retweeting a thread that questioned Israeli rescue crews helping at the site of the collapsed building in Surfside, Florida.

The original tweet from a third party, which Sarsour spread to her 331,000 followers, said, “I really don’t understand the IDF’s involvement in rescue attempts of people tragically crushed under buildings in Miami. Their expertise is crushing buildings with people in them, not rescuing them.”

Other tweets in the original thread labeled the Israeli rescue delegations as “propaganda” and “hypocrisy.”

Facing a backlash, Sarsour deleted her retweet, though the original tweet remains.

Sarsour, who was born in Brooklyn to Palestinian parents, has a long history of anti-Semitic statements.

(full article online )









						Linda Sarsour Condemns Israeli Disaster Relief at Miami Building Collapse | United with Israel
					

Anti-Semitic activist retweeted a thread blasting the IDF in connection with Israeli aid at the disaster site in Miami.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Burj Al-Luqluq defines itself as a Palestinian body that is dedicated to strengthening the Palestinian identity in Jerusalem.

About a year ago, the European Union (EU) introduced for the first time a substantial change in the terms of funding for Arab entities, according to which any cooperation with terrorist organizations would lead to the EU’s unilateral cessation of its funding to the recipient organizations.

This week, Burj Al-Luqluq issued a statement announcing the rejection of a grant in the amount of NIS 4 million from France due to its opposition to the clause demanding it to disavow any connection to terrorism. The association canceled the agreement with the development agency of the French government.

(full article online)









						Arab Organization Waives Millions in European Funds After Refusing to Disavow Ties to Terrorism
					

Burj Al-Luqluq stated that it completely rejects “conditional funding that affects the sanctity of the Palestinian national struggle.”




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Burj Al-Luqluq defines itself as a Palestinian body that is dedicated to strengthening the Palestinian identity in Jerusalem.
> 
> About a year ago, the European Union (EU) introduced for the first time a substantial change in the terms of funding for Arab entities, according to which any cooperation with terrorist organizations would lead to the EU’s unilateral cessation of its funding to the recipient organizations.
> 
> This week, Burj Al-Luqluq issued a statement announcing the rejection of a grant in the amount of NIS 4 million from France due to its opposition to the clause demanding it to disavow any connection to terrorism. The association canceled the agreement with the development agency of the French government.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Organization Waives Millions in European Funds After Refusing to Disavow Ties to Terrorism
> 
> 
> Burj Al-Luqluq stated that it completely rejects “conditional funding that affects the sanctity of the Palestinian national struggle.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com


Who is going to be in charge of the name calling?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians protest in front of an Israeli court in Jerusalem against efforts to expel Palestinians from the neighborhoods of Silwan and Sheikh Jarrah on 10 June.

 ActiveStills


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians protest in front of an Israeli court in Jerusalem against efforts to expel Palestinians from the neighborhoods of Silwan and Sheikh Jarrah on 10 June.
> 
> ActiveStills



Deadbeats getting evicted. Just awful!


----------



## Viktor

toastman said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
> What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are  racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.
Click to expand...

SAVE YOUR BREATH. YOU CANNOT DEBATE WITH AN ANTISEMITE


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys have a squad of their own, the Balloon Squad.

Just keepin' it real in the dystopian nightmare that an Arab warlord invented.











						Gaza Incendiary Balloon Squad Video: We Are Here To Burn You, To Make You Wish You Were Dead
					

"Ahfad Al-Nasser," the Gaza incendiary balloon squad that belongs to the Popular Resistance Committees, conveyed a messa...




					www.memri.org
				




Gaza Incendiary Balloon Squad Video: We Are Here To Burn You, To Make You Wish You Were Dead​#8952 | 01:03
*Source:* The Internet - "Ahfad Al-Nasser on Telegram"
_"Ahfad Al-Nasser," the Gaza incendiary balloon squad that belongs to the Popular Resistance Committees, conveyed a message in Hebrew and Arabic: "We are here to burn you [...] to make you wish you were dead." The video was posted on Ahfad Al-Nasser's Telegram account on July 4, 2021. In the video squad members are seen preparing incendiary balloons._
*Ahfad Al-Nasser: *"We are here... We work day and night... We do not get tired and we do not get bored... In order to burn you... You will not enjoy a decent life... We will make you wish you were dead... This is part of our rage."


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Incendiary Devices
⁜→ et al,

*BLUF*:  I just wanted to remind everyone that the use of incdiary devices is prohibited by International Law.

◈. Customary and International Humanitarian Law
*Rule 85*. *The Use of Incendiary Weapons against Combatants*

_* ◈. *_*1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons* (CCW)
The 1980 Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons was adopted on 10 October 1980 and entered into force on 2 December 1983. The Protocol places restrictions on the use of incendiary weapons as a means or method of warfare during an international armed conflict. It also applies to non-international armed conflict if a state party has ratified the 2001 amendment to the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW).

*◈. Arms Control (CCW)*
Protocol III regulates the use of weapons designed to set fire to or burn their target. The protocol proscribes targeting civilians with incendiary weapons and restricts the use of air-delivered incendiary weapons against military targets in close proximity to concentrations of noncombatants. It also prohibits parties from targeting forests or other plant cover unless the vegetation is being used to conceal military forces. The protocol only covers weapons created intentionally to set fire or burn, such as flamethrowers. Weapons that ignite fires or burn as a side effect are not subject to the protocol.

For another _Drachma_, use can get more links_*!*_





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Incendiary Devices
> ⁜→ et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I just wanted to remind everyone that the use of incdiary devices is prohibited by International Law.
> 
> ◈. Customary and International Humanitarian Law
> *Rule 85*. *The Use of Incendiary Weapons against Combatants*
> 
> _* ◈. *_*1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons* (CCW)
> The 1980 Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons was adopted on 10 October 1980 and entered into force on 2 December 1983. The Protocol places restrictions on the use of incendiary weapons as a means or method of warfare during an international armed conflict. It also applies to non-international armed conflict if a state party has ratified the 2001 amendment to the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW).
> 
> *◈. Arms Control (CCW)*
> Protocol III regulates the use of weapons designed to set fire to or burn their target. The protocol proscribes targeting civilians with incendiary weapons and restricts the use of air-delivered incendiary weapons against military targets in close proximity to concentrations of noncombatants. It also prohibits parties from targeting forests or other plant cover unless the vegetation is being used to conceal military forces. The protocol only covers weapons created intentionally to set fire or burn, such as flamethrowers. Weapons that ignite fires or burn as a side effect are not subject to the protocol.
> 
> For another _Drachma_, use can get more links_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_


let’s see if P F Tinmore will be screeching “racism” when Israel retaliates.​​







						Israel launches airstrikes on Gaza in retaliation for incendiary balloons
					

Attacks are the first since ceasefire agreed last month




					www.independent.co.uk
				


Israel strikes in Gaza after fire balloons launched​


----------



## Hollie

If you are viewed as an undesirable in the Islamic dictatorship, bad things happen. ​​A tale of multiple realities - the death of PA critic Nizar Banat​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 6, 2021









						A tale of multiple realities - the death of PA critic Nizar Banat | PMW Analysis
					

On the one hand, the PA has promised a thorough investigation of the incident; on the other, it is trying to buy the silence of the Banat family.




					www.palwatch.org
				




*On the one hand, the PA has promised a thorough investigation of the incident; on the other, it is trying to buy the silence of the Banat family.*​
*While the PA is expressing regret for the incident, this is not the first time Banat suffered violence at the hands of the PA security apparatus.*​
*Demonstrations against the PA as a result of the death of Banat and frustration and unhappiness with the leadership in general, are being presented by the PA as if they are demonstrations on behalf of Hamas and other parties seeking to undermine and even over-throw the PA   *​
As part of the efforts of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah party to quash internal decent, on June 24, 2021, PA Security Forces arrested and allegedly beat and killed the vocal PA critic Nizar Banat. Banat’s death sparked widespread demonstrations and counter demonstrations, and a plethora of accusations. While feigning regret and empathy, the PA and Fatah are now using Banat’s death as a means to invent a conspiracy theory about a "Hamas coup".


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reason for the renewed attention on Jews peacefully walking on the Temple Mount is clear. 

The PA has been battered with criticism on its brutal attacks on its own people who are protesting its policies, so it is doing what it always does: try to redirect people's anger at Jews. 

After all, this is one of the goals of antisemitism - to use Jews as scapegoats for anything and everything. Getting Palestinians riled up over the "Al Aqsa Mosque" has been a major way of controlling them since the Mufti did it a hundred years ago. 

(full article online)









						The PA, trying to distract from its attacks on civilians, plays up Jews visiting the Temple Mount
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

I would add here that Hamas didn't take over the offices during the war, but they had been using the offices for quite a while, and deliberately placed them in a civilian building. In this case, saying that Hamas used human shields is definitely something to consider.

(full article online)









						West Point scholar says the IDF strike of the Al Jalaa Tower was legal
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amer Zahr, Israel-basher and self-styled comedian, recently outed himself as an Israeli citizen while spreading lies about a routine sticker placed on his Israeli passport by authorities at Ben Gurion Airport.

The lies are no laughing matter, however, as Zahr falsely claimed that a yellow sticker with a bar code and series of numbers indicated he was a security threat, spreading the falsehood to his close 100,000 followers on Instagram.

On Monday, he described flying out of Israel’s Ben-Gurion Airport. Zahr claimed that a yellow sticker with a “6” means you’re a “security threat,” “i.e. not Jewish,” posting a photo of the sticker affixed to his passport.

Instagrammers were quick to challenge Zahr.

“Please stop spreading lies. The yellow sticker is for everyone. At least be honest with your content. Thanks,” commented SashaJade1.

Danibptak responded, “I’m Jewish, Brazilian and have a lot of these stickers. Are you crazy??”

And Ilya7703 wrote, “I’ve had a yellow sticker on my passport when traveling and guess what I’m Jewish. You’re just lying to push an agenda. Give up your citizenship if you hate Israel so much.”

(full article online)









						Israel-Bashing ‘Palestinian’ Comedian Outs Himself as Israeli Citizen | United with Israel
					

Amer Zahr, a favorite of Rashida Tlaib, spreads lies about Israel, but enjoys all of the rights of an Israeli citizen!




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Amer Zahr, Israel-basher and self-styled comedian, recently outed himself as an Israeli citizen while spreading lies about a routine sticker placed on his Israeli passport by authorities at Ben Gurion Airport.
> 
> The lies are no laughing matter, however, as Zahr falsely claimed that a yellow sticker with a bar code and series of numbers indicated he was a security threat, spreading the falsehood to his close 100,000 followers on Instagram.
> 
> On Monday, he described flying out of Israel’s Ben-Gurion Airport. Zahr claimed that a yellow sticker with a “6” means you’re a “security threat,” “i.e. not Jewish,” posting a photo of the sticker affixed to his passport.
> 
> Instagrammers were quick to challenge Zahr.
> 
> “Please stop spreading lies. The yellow sticker is for everyone. At least be honest with your content. Thanks,” commented SashaJade1.
> 
> Danibptak responded, “I’m Jewish, Brazilian and have a lot of these stickers. Are you crazy??”
> 
> And Ilya7703 wrote, “I’ve had a yellow sticker on my passport when traveling and guess what I’m Jewish. You’re just lying to push an agenda. Give up your citizenship if you hate Israel so much.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel-Bashing ‘Palestinian’ Comedian Outs Himself as Israeli Citizen | United with Israel
> 
> 
> Amer Zahr, a favorite of Rashida Tlaib, spreads lies about Israel, but enjoys all of the rights of an Israeli citizen!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unitedwithisrael.org


What do those stickers mean?

Just curious.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is one of the videos released to celebrate the Hamas summer camps, showing the first day of the second session.

(video online)


The song's chorus says, "Oh my people, wage resistance, don't show mercy towards the Jews, advance, as long as there's blood on our path, there's martyrdom..."

(full article online)









						Hamas summer camp video: "Don't show mercy towards the Jews"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Exploitation
⁜→ et al,

*BLUF*: I think you are not far from the bulls-eye.  I think the engineered disturbances or notable quiet periods have to do with the manipulation of the news cycle in favor (to the extent possible) of the Palestinian Authority and less favorable (to the extent possible) Israleis and /or the ongoing talks.



Sixties Fan said:


> The reason for the renewed attention on Jews peacefully walking on the Temple Mount is clear.
> 
> The PA has been battered with criticism on its brutal attacks on its own people who are protesting its policies, so it is doing what it always does: try to redirect people's anger at Jews.
> 
> After all, this is one of the goals of antisemitism - to use Jews as scapegoats for anything and everything. Getting Palestinians riled up over the "Al Aqsa Mosque" has been a major way of controlling them since the Mufti did it a hundred years ago.


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) often create news events to distract or divert world news coverage.  The HoAP also plants stories that are really NOT stories.  People like Ahed Tamimi can take a minor incident and cause inflation to fill the news page *(print - internet flashes and social media platforms)*.  The HoAP is also known to plant false indicators *(pointing fingers at something totally fictitious)* to flood the news cycle that covers the more accurate reporting.  News organizations like _al-Jazzersa_ and _Al Arabiya _are known to play along because it makes it appear they have a scoop/exclusive.  A good one is something like an Israeli Negotiating Team is on its way to Cairo for high-level talks.  No Middle East Government is going to confirm or deny such a story.  A similar example of planted diversion is the story is the claims Investigators are examining evidence in Gaza of Israeli War Crimes.  Again, the Hague is not going to confirm or deny.  But the HoAP can plant short videos and bandwidth-consuming pictures that bump or marginalize actual news-worthy reporting.

And then there are the incitement events.  Where an HoAP operative creates a small disturbance and the pro-HoAP media sympathizers expand it out of proportion.

All these techniques are used by all the Middle East players to contain and avert adverse coverage.




_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

I've just learned to expect the worst. She always delivers. 










						Not just the police. DEFUND ALL LAW, says Rashida Tlaib, including Department of Homeland Security
					

You’d think the people who can’t wait to put Legos in jail would be MORE interested in funding for government agencies, not LESS. But of course it depends on who is being targeted. DHS …




					therightscoop.com
				








Not just the police. DEFUND ALL LAW, says Rashida Tlaib, including Department of Homeland Security​


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestinian woman who captured the world's attention when she confronted an Israeli settler has graduated from university.
She told AJ+ in May how she's fighting to save Sheikh Jarrah.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian woman who captured the world's attention when she confronted an Israeli settler has graduated from university.
> She told AJ+ in May how she's fighting to save Sheikh Jarrah.



I'm sure the final Mein Kampf exams were demanding...

Remind us, what's her last name again?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian woman who captured the world's attention when she confronted an Israeli settler has graduated from university.
> She told AJ+ in May how she's fighting to save Sheikh Jarrah.



Don't pay rent for decades, eventually it comes back to bite you.


----------



## Hollie

I almost expect the UN to issue a clarifying statement excepting islamic terrorist franchises in the territories they occupy.











						UN condemns use of civilians as human shields, anti-Semitic terror
					

The international body passes resolution to condemn terrorism directed at Jews for the first time in its history, as well as the use of the internet as a recruitment tool for terrorists; Israeli Ambassador Gilad Erdan welcomes decision




					www.ynetnews.com
				




​


----------



## Hollie

Koran 4:34
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.


Koran 2:223
Shakir: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers









						58 Palestinian women murdered in domestic violence in 2 years; PA blamed for not ratifying law to protect them | PMW Analysis
					

“In the absence of the law to defend the family against violence, the men of the family will continue to do as they please with the women” – Palestinian NGO




					www.palwatch.org
				





About Us
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58 Palestinian women murdered in domestic violence in 2 years; PA blamed for not ratifying law to protect them
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 8, 2021
“The women in our society are still being subjected to murder and violence… A chronic illness” – official PA daily
“In the absence of the law to defend the family against violence, the men of the family will continue to do as they please with the women” – Palestinian NGO
“The increase in the murder of women in Palestinian society under different circumstances and unjustified and illogical excuses indicates the exacerbation of fundamentalism and social seclusion” – Palestinian NGO


----------



## Sixties Fan

I was curious why Jews would want to visit Halhoul.

It turns out there are a lot of reasons.

Halhoul is mentioned in the Tanach - Joshua 15:58. It kept the same name all this time. 

It has long been considered the burial place of Gad the Seer (2 Samuel 24:11) and Jews have made pilgrimages there for centuries. Rabbi Yitzchak Chelo, of Aragon, visited Palestine in 1333, and wrote about Halhoul in his book The Ways of Jerusalem (quoted here from the French by Victor Guerin):


> From there [from Tekoa '] we go to Halhul, place mentioned in Joshua. There are a number of Jews here, who lead you to an ancient sepulchral monument, attributed to Gad the Seer. This is the third tomb of the seven prophets.


It remained a place of pilgrimage for Jews in 1847, when John Wilson visited. 
So we see that Jews lives in Halhul in the Middle Ages, they venerated it for much longer as the burial place of a prophet, and it is clearly an important Biblical site.

Now we understand why Palestinians try to keep in Jew-free. That's what they try to do to every important historic Jewish place. 

(full article online)









						The ancient Jewish pilgrimage site of Halhoul that Palestinians try to bar Jews from visiting
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Meanwhile, the international media did not do much better. Of all people, journalists should reasonably be expected to get to the bottom of whether Israel or the Palestinian Authority was telling the truth about the vaccines. But instead, too many outlets covered the entire affair in “he-said, she-said” terms, as though the truth was unknowable, rather than something that could be determined by careful reporting. The closing of the New York Times dispatch was emblematic of this approach:

(full article online)









						The Palestinian Vaccine Fiasco
					

How a political, media, and activist failure is leading to avoidable deaths




					www.tabletmag.com


----------



## Hollie

Despite the continuing occurrences of Hamas verifiably using noncombatant civilians -- men, women, and children as human shields for its offensive gee-had, yet another call for its end will be met with new graduates of the gee-had summer camp. The Pallys likely don't see it but the world just casually moves on after Hamas sacrifices me, women and children for propaganda purposes.  Siting missiles and other armaments in residential areas, mosques, hospitals, UN schools, and buildings used by the media is the way if the gee-had. Waging war from those areas, knowing Israel _must_ respond to end the threat, leaves the islamic terrorists with rehearsed slogans about the resulting civilian deaths and property damage and why its the Israeli's fault.











						Israeli NGO urges UNICEF to probe Hamas, PIJ for using child soldiers
					

The call to the UN agency follows reporting by The Jerusalem Post on Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad running "training camps" to recruit child soldiers.




					www.jpost.com
				




The Israel-based NGO International Legal Forum (ILF) has called on UNICEF to investigate allegations of Palestinian children being trained as child soldiers in Gaza, following a report by _The Jerusalem Post_.

The NGO, which is a network of over 3,000 lawyers and activists in over 40 nations worldwide, stated that they have "grave concern" following reports that the Gaza-based Palestinian terrorist groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) were training and recruiting children.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


The world renowned Gaza veterinary school.


----------



## Hollie

Head Of Hamas Diaspora Office Khaled Mash'al: Hamas Seeks To Restore Ties With Arab Countries, Especially Saudi Arabia; We Adhere To The Ideology Of The Muslim Brotherhood But Are An Independent Movement
					

Head of Hamas Diaspora Office Khaled Mash'al said that Hamas seeks to restore ties with Arab countries that had previous...




					www.memri.org
				






The Pally terrorists are having to reconcile their fawning admiration for the Shia Iranian mullocrats, (and the Sbia welfare money), which puts them the outs with the Sunni Arab world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Teddy Stadium, where the match will be played, is in the part of Jerusalem controlled by Israel since 1948. 

You can see here that the stadium was built north of the 1949 armistice line. 






Rajoub is lying.




There are other objections to them match. Beitar is known for its racist, anti-Arab fans. However, in December, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Nahyan of the UAE royal family bought 50% of the club, so it seems like that argument against the match is not very effective any more. 


(full article online)









						Palestinians complaining about football match between Beitar Jerusalem and Barcelona, falsely claiming that it will be played in "occupied" east Jerusalem
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Surprising no one, the UN is issuing another sloppy propaganda piece  that confirms again the collection of hacks and misfits serve an agenda.












						Report: UN's Palestine Monitor Ignored Palestinian Authority Rights Abuses  - UN Watch
					

PRESS RELEASE Report: UN’s Palestine Monitor Ignored Palestinian Authority Rights Abuses  GENEVA, July 9, 2021 — Ahead of today’s United Nations Human Rights Council’s debate with its monitor on Palestinian rights Michael Lynk, the Geneva-based non-governmental organization UN Watch released a...



					unwatch.org
				





Report: UN’s Palestine Monitor Ignored Palestinian Authority Rights Abuses.

Report: UN’s Palestine Monitor Ignored
Palestinian Authority Rights Abuses 

GENEVA, July 9, 2021 — Ahead of today’s United Nations Human Rights Council’s debate with its monitor on Palestinian rights Michael Lynk, the Geneva-based non-governmental organization UN Watch released a report accusing him of systematically ignoring violations by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, and the group’s director Hillel Neuer will be taking the floor this afternoon to challenge the UN official.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“There is a wing of the pro-Israel establishment in the U.S.,” the _Washington Post’s _Ishaan Tharoor tweeted on May 28, 2021, “for whom simply recognizing the humanity of Palestinians is beyond the pale.” The World Views columnist added: “Even the most simple attempt at centering the Palestinian experience can constitute ‘blood libel.’ It’d be funny if it wasn’t so sick.”

Tharoor often pretends to care about Palestinians. The _Post_ employee has authored dozens of omission-laden columns where he blames the Jewish state for a myriad of issues confronting the Palestinian people. But when Israel’s involvement can’t be conjured—when, for example, Palestinian leaders are brutally repressing their own people—Tharoor can’t be troubled to write an honest assessment.

Take, for example, the recent crackdown by the Palestinian Authority, which rules over the majority of Palestinian Arabs.

(full article online)









						When the Washington Post’s World View Doesn’t Include Palestinians
					

The Washington Post's World View column provides disproportionate, and often misleading, analysis on Israel, much of which castigates the Jewish state for supposedly repressing




					www.camera.org


----------



## Hollie

Children represent the next generation of sociopaths who can be conscripted as war materiel by the various islamic terrorist franchises. They hope to reap political capital, at least, from their deaths under retaliatory strikes from the Israeli military. Who is it that has placed children in the line of fire? Not the Israelis, who have done all that any combatant could do to warn them of impending strikes. .




_








						Hamas Is Abusing Children, and the World Is Complicit
					

Palestinian youths at a graduation ceremony for a military-style camp organized by the Hamas terror group in Gaza, Aug. 18, …




					www.algemeiner.com
				



_
Hamas Is Abusing Children, and the World Is Complicit​



Palestinian youths at a graduation ceremony for a military-style camp organized by the Hamas terror group in Gaza, Aug. 18, 2017. Photo: Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90.
Another summer, another terrorist training camp for Palestinian children.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Sociopaths in training.

“Stateworthy”




Child at Islamic Jihad Gaza Summer Camp: Hitler Left Some of You Alive to Show Us How Wicked You Are


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel.

The boy’s drawing shows the map used by the PA in all frameworks that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” “Palestine” is written at the top of the drawing, while to the north of “Palestine” is written “Lebanon,” to the east “Syria” and “Jordan,” to the west “the Mediterranean Sea,” and to the south “the Gulf of Aqaba.”

There is no Israel.

The boy’s “geographical knowledge” - which seems to have been reinforced at the Fatah summer camp - is consistent with the PA’s decade-long indoctrination of Palestinians to believe that Israel has no right to exist in any borders and that “Palestine” will be “liberated from the Sea to the River.”

An additional message taught by Fatah in Nablus to kids at the camp was the importance of boycotting Israeli products:

(full article online)









						What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel | PMW Analysis
					

A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel.
> 
> The boy’s drawing shows the map used by the PA in all frameworks that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” “Palestine” is written at the top of the drawing, while to the north of “Palestine” is written “Lebanon,” to the east “Syria” and “Jordan,” to the west “the Mediterranean Sea,” and to the south “the Gulf of Aqaba.”
> 
> There is no Israel.
> 
> The boy’s “geographical knowledge” - which seems to have been reinforced at the Fatah summer camp - is consistent with the PA’s decade-long indoctrination of Palestinians to believe that Israel has no right to exist in any borders and that “Palestine” will be “liberated from the Sea to the River.”
> 
> An additional message taught by Fatah in Nablus to kids at the camp was the importance of boycotting Israeli products:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


His map is geographically correct.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel.
> 
> The boy’s drawing shows the map used by the PA in all frameworks that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” “Palestine” is written at the top of the drawing, while to the north of “Palestine” is written “Lebanon,” to the east “Syria” and “Jordan,” to the west “the Mediterranean Sea,” and to the south “the Gulf of Aqaba.”
> 
> There is no Israel.
> 
> The boy’s “geographical knowledge” - which seems to have been reinforced at the Fatah summer camp - is consistent with the PA’s decade-long indoctrination of Palestinians to believe that Israel has no right to exist in any borders and that “Palestine” will be “liberated from the Sea to the River.”
> 
> An additional message taught by Fatah in Nablus to kids at the camp was the importance of boycotting Israeli products:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His map is geographically correct.
Click to expand...

For learned Jew haters who are intent in making sure that Jews will never be sovereign over their own homeland.

What a surprise !!!!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel.
> 
> The boy’s drawing shows the map used by the PA in all frameworks that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” “Palestine” is written at the top of the drawing, while to the north of “Palestine” is written “Lebanon,” to the east “Syria” and “Jordan,” to the west “the Mediterranean Sea,” and to the south “the Gulf of Aqaba.”
> 
> There is no Israel.
> 
> The boy’s “geographical knowledge” - which seems to have been reinforced at the Fatah summer camp - is consistent with the PA’s decade-long indoctrination of Palestinians to believe that Israel has no right to exist in any borders and that “Palestine” will be “liberated from the Sea to the River.”
> 
> An additional message taught by Fatah in Nablus to kids at the camp was the importance of boycotting Israeli products:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His map is geographically correct.
Click to expand...

Only in the alternate reality of the Arab-Moslem squatter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel.
> 
> The boy’s drawing shows the map used by the PA in all frameworks that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” “Palestine” is written at the top of the drawing, while to the north of “Palestine” is written “Lebanon,” to the east “Syria” and “Jordan,” to the west “the Mediterranean Sea,” and to the south “the Gulf of Aqaba.”
> 
> There is no Israel.
> 
> The boy’s “geographical knowledge” - which seems to have been reinforced at the Fatah summer camp - is consistent with the PA’s decade-long indoctrination of Palestinians to believe that Israel has no right to exist in any borders and that “Palestine” will be “liberated from the Sea to the River.”
> 
> An additional message taught by Fatah in Nablus to kids at the camp was the importance of boycotting Israeli products:
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His map is geographically correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For learned Jew haters who are intent in making sure that Jews will never be sovereign over their own homeland.
> 
> What a surprise !!!!
Click to expand...

That is Palestine inside its international borders.

Look it up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is not a common video to be circulating the internet. She was raised as a “Palestinian” woman but mentions in the video that she is no longer a “Palestinian.” The truth makes sense to her. Everything she says in this video exposes what the “Palestinian” culture is about. 

This woman exposes what Ramadan is all about. And what about all the violence that has taken place in Al-Aqsa mosque? She reveals the truth about that as well.









						"Palestinian" Woman Makes Video Exposing the Crimes of Her Own People
					

Wow, now this is a rare video.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> His map is geographically correct.



When has there ever been a Palestinian state in that region?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> That is Palestine inside its international borders.



Who were the signers of what agreements that solidified those borders?

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The message is that any infighting takes away from the battle against Israel, and ends up strengthening the Zionist enemy.

Al-Aloul said that opposing Israel is the main challenge for Palestinians, and they could not afford any internal dissent which he called "secondary conflict."

"O others, who are taking us towards a secondary conflict, where are you going? Is this not in the interest of the occupation? We are fighting a battle against the occupation, isn't this a relief to the occupation? We tell you that we are in Fatah support unity, pluralism with other opinions, but we have the ability to distinguish [between legitimate opinions and opposition to Fatah.] 

And who makes the decision of what kinds of criticism is legitimate and which kind results in beatings and imprisonment? Why, it is people like Al-Aloul!

(full article online)









						Deputy head of Fatah warns critics not to "provoke" them - because they value unity
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Analysts at the leading think tank the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, in testimony before Congress, have noted the “significant overlap between employees from this Hamas-supporting organization and the American Muslims for Palestine network.” And one of America’s oldest anti-racism groups, the Anti-Defamation League, notes, “AMP has its organizational roots in the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP), an anti-Semitic group that served as the main propaganda arm for Hamas in the United States until it was dissolved in 2004.”

AMP officials do not work particularly hard to conceal their views. The current AMP director, Osama Abuirshaid, has praised Hamas as “an army for liberation” whose fighters “rise up for the blood of martyrs.”


That anti-Jewish, pro-terror organizations such as AMP are now turning to cryptocurrency schemes for donations is worrying. Other organizations and law enforcement agencies have increasingly pointed to the growing use of cryptocurrency — particularly the anonymity that such trading offers — as a lucrative source of income and opaqueness for violent Islamist organizations and their lawful cheerleaders in the West.

In June, following clashes between Israel and Hamas, U.S. Congressmen Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.) and Brian Mast (R-Fla.) introduced bipartisan legislation seeking to impose additional financial sanctions on the Gaza terrorist group, in the wake of reports of “a surge in cryptocurrency donations to Hamas since the start of the conflict, circumventing international sanctions.”

(full article online)









						The Rise of the Crypto-Islamists - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics
					

When startup initiative Super Mission launched its own cryptocurrency token earlier this year, it promised to divert enormous sums —...




					spectator.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The United Nations food agency recently sounded the alarm as Madagascar experiences its worst drought in decades, with one million people facing potential starvation. In war-ravaged Yemen, 20 million face hunger. In Venezuela, one out of three is struggling to meet minimum nutrition requirements as the Maduro regime sucks the country dry.

All examples of where Michael Fakhri, the UN Human Rights Council’s “right to food” monitor should be taking a keen interest. Yet Fakhri has never issued a press release on any of these. Instead, his attention has recently turned to attacking Israel as an “apartheid state” and calling for it to be boycotted.

The Canadian-Lebanese law professor was appointed by the UN in 2020 as special rapporteur on the right to food. He teaches human rights and food law at the University of Oregon, theoretically bringing relevant expertise.

However, the UN position, initiated two decades ago by Cuba, was politicized from the start, with Havana using its influence to appoint “independent experts” with an anti-Western, anti-US and anti-Israel agenda.

In 2019, Fakhri described Canada as a “settler colony” which he accused of committing a “race-based genocide against indigenous peoples” that is “ongoing.” That Fakhri occupies a UN post supported by anti-Western dictatorships is unsurprising.


During the May 2021 war between Hamas and Israel, Fakhri used his position to co-sign another biased UN statement that condemned Israel for “discrimination and segregation,” and for its “vast asymmetry of power.”

Fakhri also signed a letter calling on the International Criminal Court to investigate the Sheikh Jarrah situation, accusing Israel of “crimes against humanity” and “apartheid.”

The UN’s code of conduct calls on mandate-holders to “ensure that their personal political opinions are without prejudice to the execution of their mission.” It also calls for impartiality. Yet Fakhri’s open support for BDS, a movement that promotes the end of Israel as a Jewish state, demonstrates the opposite.

The code of conduct calls for “upholding the highest standards of integrity.” It is unlikely that this includes advocating breaking the law in a democratic state, yet Fakhri has done exactly that.

(full article online)









						Politicized UN official abuses food mandate to target Israel - opinion
					

The UN’s code of conduct calls on mandate-holders to “ensure that their personal political opinions are without prejudice to the execution of their mission.” It also calls for impartiality.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.​
(full article online)









						The problem with foreign aid for Gaza
					

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Four Palestinians, some armed with knives, were detained by Israel Defense Force soldiers after infiltrating into southern Israel on Saturday, the military said.

On Saturday morning, an unarmed Palestinian, who crossed into Israel from the Gaza Strip through the southern section of the border fence, was detained and questioned by IDF soldiers.

Later Saturday, three suspects carrying a number of knives were detained by soldiers in the same area after infiltrating from the coastal enclave, according to the IDF.

(full article online)









						Gazans nabbed after infiltrating into Israel armed with knives
					

IDF says four suspects caught and questioned in two separate incidents




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

An Arab activist from the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood in east Jerusalem who was involved in multiple attacks on local Jews has been summoned for a hearing by his employer, an Israeli supermarket chain, after he was identified on social media.

Salah Diab, a resident of the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood, was summoned for a hearing by the ‘Mega’ supermarket chain, one of the largest food retailers in Israel, after it was revealed that he was involved in violent riots in the capital in May.

Diab was filmed hurling rocks at Jews in the Shimon Hatzaddik enclave within Sheikh Jarrah during riots which broke out in May, coinciding with renewed fighting between Israel and the Hamas terrorist organization in Gaza.

While supporters have dubbed Diab a leader of the ‘protest movement’ in Sheikh Jarrah against the impending eviction of illegal Arab squatters residing on Jewish-owned property, the Honenu legal defense organization named Diab as one of the key instigators of violent attacks on local Jews.

(full article online)









						Organizer of Arab riots identified as employee of Israeli supermarket
					

'Mega' supermarket calls Arab employee in for hearing after he was filmed attacking Jews during Jerusalem riots - multiple times.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(As  Arab Muslim Palestinians first, as  Israelis.......

Asked to comment on the recent failure of the government to pass an extension to the Citizenship Law, which would bar Israeli Arabs from applying for citizenship or permanent residency for their PA-Arab spouses, Ghainem said, “This is a racist law. Twenty thousand families are suffering because of it. I oppose it. I abstained on the vote because I didn’t want to topple the government, but it is clear that we have red lines.”

Ghainem then issued a clear threat to the government: “If the government hits Gaza [in response to Hamas firing on Israel, or any other offense], I will topple the government.”

(full article online)









						Ra'am MK Mazen Ghainem: If Israel fires on Gaza, I'll topple the government
					

"I abstained on the Citizenship Law because I didn't want to overthrow the government, but we have clear red lines."




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

It was another fun-filled day of ''Jew Rage'' in the territories occupied by angry islamics. 

Celebrating the death of another cultist reveals these are just pious Moslems who hold to that vision of themselves as slaughtering savages on horseback having never moved beyond the 7th century. 



The MC at a Fatah ceremony honoring the “Martyr” Muhammad Hamid recited a poem that said that the Palestinians are experiencing a “momentary weakness,” while the Israelis are an “illusion that will dissipate.” The ceremony was aired on Palestine TV on July 5, 2021. The poem says: “I am Palestine, and who are you?” It continues to claim that the Israelis are the Falasha (Ethiopian Jews) and sons of Natashas (presumably meaning Russian Jews). It asks: “How can those who were burned burn (others)?” Furthermore, the poem suggests that Israelis ask their rabbis about the gharqad trees they will plant, alluding to the hadith depicting the Muslims killing the Jews on Judgment Day.


----------



## Hollie

Money being a big driver of the Islamic gee-had....









						Israel Seizes Bitcoin Used by Hamas - HS Today
					

Israel’s Defense Ministry says it has begun taking control of digital wallets being used by the Hamas terror group that contain virtual currencies from overseas donations.




					www.hstoday.us


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Ya’ari, the folks in Ramallah have worked out a list of 14 demands that are a prerequisite to sitting down with Israeli negotiators.


Reopen the Orient House and other PA institutions in eastern Jerusalem which have been closed since 2001. In other words, they want to bring back their pre-second intifada political activity to the capital, which is currently being firmly prevented by the police and Shin Bet.
Restore the old status quo on the Temple Mount instead of the current arrangements. This means restricting police activity around the al-Aqsa Mosque, diluting the Jewish visits, and strengthening the status of PA officials there.
Stop the eviction of Arab squatters from their Jewish-owned homes in eastern Jerusalem. Never mind what Israeli courts rule.
Release of the “fourth phase” security prisoners, which was agreed upon at the time but did not materialize due to a renewed wave of terrorism. Also –release women, the elderly, and minors who sit in security prisons.
Stop the expansion of settlements, including construction in eastern Jerusalem, and evacuate all the outposts that are claimed to be on Arab land (about 135 of them – DI).
Stop home demolitions in the Jordan Valley.
Cease IDF incursions into PA Arab cities to arrest terror suspects.
Return to the PA security forces the weapons that were seized from them by the IDF (commonly after they had targeted IDF soldiers – DI).
Renew the family reunification process (from the PA into Israel, not the other way around – DI).
Increase the number of work permits in Israel to PA Arabs (at least until one of them goes on another murder spree – DI).
Return of Palestinian Authority police, officials, and customs officers to the Allenby Bridge, at the border with Jordan, as was the case after the Oslo Accords. Renew the transfer of cargo at Damia Bridge. Permit an international airport in the PA. Also: a free trade zone near Jericho.
Allocation of areas in Area C—approximately 60% of Judea and Samaria–to factories, a power plant, and tourism ventures. Transfer of planning and licensing powers to the Palestinian Authority in Area B. Lay down fuel pipes to an Israeli port and to Jordan. Construct railways in the PA.
Modify the Paris Agreement between Israel and the PA so that taxes on cargo destined for Judea and Samaria would not be collected by Israel (which cuts from those taxes whatever amount the PA pays out to security prisoners and their families – DI).
Upgrading the cellular networks in the PA to G4.

(full article online)









						Revealed: Mahmoud Abbas’s Preconditions for Negotiations with Israel
					

Israeli journalist, author, television personality, and political commentator Ehud Ya'ari, on Sunday reported that Ramallah is eager to reap the benefits of the Biden administration's interest in revi




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> According to Ya’ari, the folks in Ramallah have worked out a list of 14 demands that are a prerequisite to sitting down with Israeli negotiators.
> 
> 
> Reopen the Orient House and other PA institutions in eastern Jerusalem which have been closed since 2001. In other words, they want to bring back their pre-second intifada political activity to the capital, which is currently being firmly prevented by the police and Shin Bet.
> Restore the old status quo on the Temple Mount instead of the current arrangements. This means restricting police activity around the al-Aqsa Mosque, diluting the Jewish visits, and strengthening the status of PA officials there.
> Stop the eviction of Arab squatters from their Jewish-owned homes in eastern Jerusalem. Never mind what Israeli courts rule.
> Release of the “fourth phase” security prisoners, which was agreed upon at the time but did not materialize due to a renewed wave of terrorism. Also –release women, the elderly, and minors who sit in security prisons.
> Stop the expansion of settlements, including construction in eastern Jerusalem, and evacuate all the outposts that are claimed to be on Arab land (about 135 of them – DI).
> Stop home demolitions in the Jordan Valley.
> Cease IDF incursions into PA Arab cities to arrest terror suspects.
> Return to the PA security forces the weapons that were seized from them by the IDF (commonly after they had targeted IDF soldiers – DI).
> Renew the family reunification process (from the PA into Israel, not the other way around – DI).
> Increase the number of work permits in Israel to PA Arabs (at least until one of them goes on another murder spree – DI).
> Return of Palestinian Authority police, officials, and customs officers to the Allenby Bridge, at the border with Jordan, as was the case after the Oslo Accords. Renew the transfer of cargo at Damia Bridge. Permit an international airport in the PA. Also: a free trade zone near Jericho.
> Allocation of areas in Area C—approximately 60% of Judea and Samaria–to factories, a power plant, and tourism ventures. Transfer of planning and licensing powers to the Palestinian Authority in Area B. Lay down fuel pipes to an Israeli port and to Jordan. Construct railways in the PA.
> Modify the Paris Agreement between Israel and the PA so that taxes on cargo destined for Judea and Samaria would not be collected by Israel (which cuts from those taxes whatever amount the PA pays out to security prisoners and their families – DI).
> Upgrading the cellular networks in the PA to G4.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revealed: Mahmoud Abbas’s Preconditions for Negotiations with Israel
> 
> 
> Israeli journalist, author, television personality, and political commentator Ehud Ya'ari, on Sunday reported that Ramallah is eager to reap the benefits of the Biden administration's interest in revi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com


15. No retaliation for islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are the Palestinians?  Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
※→ et al,



Sixties Fan said:


> According to Ya’ari, the folks in Ramallah have worked out a list of 14 demands that are a prerequisite to sitting down with Israeli negotiators.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Governments of Ramallah and Gaza are intentionally making the process impossibly difficult.

It is my opinion that Israel will not adhere to the lists of demands.  To do so would be setting the prerequisite model as precedence for any future invitations.

This is a rejection, by other means, of the invitation for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) to sit at the table for the Peace Process.






_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> According to Ya’ari, the folks in Ramallah have worked out a list of 14 demands that are a prerequisite to sitting down with Israeli negotiators.
> 
> 
> Reopen the Orient House and other PA institutions in eastern Jerusalem which have been closed since 2001. In other words, they want to bring back their pre-second intifada political activity to the capital, which is currently being firmly prevented by the police and Shin Bet.
> Restore the old status quo on the Temple Mount instead of the current arrangements. This means restricting police activity around the al-Aqsa Mosque, diluting the Jewish visits, and strengthening the status of PA officials there.
> Stop the eviction of Arab squatters from their Jewish-owned homes in eastern Jerusalem. Never mind what Israeli courts rule.
> Release of the “fourth phase” security prisoners, which was agreed upon at the time but did not materialize due to a renewed wave of terrorism. Also –release women, the elderly, and minors who sit in security prisons.
> Stop the expansion of settlements, including construction in eastern Jerusalem, and evacuate all the outposts that are claimed to be on Arab land (about 135 of them – DI).
> Stop home demolitions in the Jordan Valley.
> Cease IDF incursions into PA Arab cities to arrest terror suspects.
> Return to the PA security forces the weapons that were seized from them by the IDF (commonly after they had targeted IDF soldiers – DI).
> Renew the family reunification process (from the PA into Israel, not the other way around – DI).
> Increase the number of work permits in Israel to PA Arabs (at least until one of them goes on another murder spree – DI).
> Return of Palestinian Authority police, officials, and customs officers to the Allenby Bridge, at the border with Jordan, as was the case after the Oslo Accords. Renew the transfer of cargo at Damia Bridge. Permit an international airport in the PA. Also: a free trade zone near Jericho.
> Allocation of areas in Area C—approximately 60% of Judea and Samaria–to factories, a power plant, and tourism ventures. Transfer of planning and licensing powers to the Palestinian Authority in Area B. Lay down fuel pipes to an Israeli port and to Jordan. Construct railways in the PA.
> Modify the Paris Agreement between Israel and the PA so that taxes on cargo destined for Judea and Samaria would not be collected by Israel (which cuts from those taxes whatever amount the PA pays out to security prisoners and their families – DI).
> Upgrading the cellular networks in the PA to G4.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revealed: Mahmoud Abbas’s Preconditions for Negotiations with Israel
> 
> 
> Israeli journalist, author, television personality, and political commentator Ehud Ya'ari, on Sunday reported that Ramallah is eager to reap the benefits of the Biden administration's interest in revi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com


Those are Israel's version of the demands.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


He didn't say that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't say that.
Click to expand...

He didn't say what he said?


----------



## Hollie

I expect UNRWA will soon be begging for more Islamic terrorist welfare money. 













						Israel to deduct Palestinian money over ‘terror’ payments
					

Israel said Sunday it would punish Palestinians for the practice of paying militants for attacks by freezing tax payments it collects for the Palestinian




					english.alarabiya.net
				




Israel said Sunday it would punish Palestinians for the practice of paying militants for attacks by freezing tax payments it collects for the Palestinian Authority.

The amount withheld would balance the amount the PA pays to Palestinian attackers and their families.

The move, approved by the security cabinet of recently appointed Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, was likely to cause a crisis with the PA, who took action against similar measures in the past.

The cabinet was told the PA transferred 597 million shekels ($183 million, 154 million euros) “in indirect support of terrorism in 2020” in the form of payments “to terrorists and their families,” Bennett’s office said.

“These funds will be frozen on a monthly basis out of the payments that Israel transfers to the Palestinian Authority,” the statement added.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I expect UNRWA will soon be begging for more Islamic terrorist welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel to deduct Palestinian money over ‘terror’ payments
> 
> 
> Israel said Sunday it would punish Palestinians for the practice of paying militants for attacks by freezing tax payments it collects for the Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel said Sunday it would punish Palestinians for the practice of paying militants for attacks by freezing tax payments it collects for the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> The amount withheld would balance the amount the PA pays to Palestinian attackers and their families.
> 
> The move, approved by the security cabinet of recently appointed Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, was likely to cause a crisis with the PA, who took action against similar measures in the past.
> 
> The cabinet was told the PA transferred 597 million shekels ($183 million, 154 million euros) “in indirect support of terrorism in 2020” in the form of payments “to terrorists and their families,” Bennett’s office said.
> 
> “These funds will be frozen on a monthly basis out of the payments that Israel transfers to the Palestinian Authority,” the statement added.





Hollie said:


> “These funds will be frozen on a monthly basis out of the payments that Israel transfers to the Palestinian Authority,” the statement added


Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I expect UNRWA will soon be begging for more Islamic terrorist welfare money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel to deduct Palestinian money over ‘terror’ payments
> 
> 
> Israel said Sunday it would punish Palestinians for the practice of paying militants for attacks by freezing tax payments it collects for the Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel said Sunday it would punish Palestinians for the practice of paying militants for attacks by freezing tax payments it collects for the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> The amount withheld would balance the amount the PA pays to Palestinian attackers and their families.
> 
> The move, approved by the security cabinet of recently appointed Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, was likely to cause a crisis with the PA, who took action against similar measures in the past.
> 
> The cabinet was told the PA transferred 597 million shekels ($183 million, 154 million euros) “in indirect support of terrorism in 2020” in the form of payments “to terrorists and their families,” Bennett’s office said.
> 
> “These funds will be frozen on a monthly basis out of the payments that Israel transfers to the Palestinian Authority,” the statement added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “These funds will be frozen on a monthly basis out of the payments that Israel transfers to the Palestinian Authority,” the statement added
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
Click to expand...

Nothing is being stolen. Consider it Islamic terrorist behavior modification.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!


*(COMMENT)*

You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").

Unravel this mystery for me.  

It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).





_Most Respectfully,
R_

*NOTES:..............................................................*

Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*

1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​


----------



## Dusty

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
Click to expand...

Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
Click to expand...

Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.

No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.

The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.

The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.

ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.

There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
Click to expand...

Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture

See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats


----------



## Hollie

It's the usual inversion of reality that defines the territories occupied by the Fatah and Hamas islamic terrorists. 












						Palestinian Authority says 'pay for slay' deduction is terrorism, piracy
					

The Israeli security cabinet's decision to deduct NIS 597 million from the tax money Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority is a crime tantamount to terrorism and piracy, according to Qadri Abu Bakr, chairman of the Palestinian Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs Commission.  On...




					www.google.com
				






Jerusalem Post  Breaking News

Palestinian Authority says 'pay for slay' deduction is terrorism, piracy
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH   JULY 12, 2021 01:43

The Israeli security cabinet’s decision to deduct NIS 597 million from the tax money Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority is a crime tantamount to terrorism and piracy, Qadri Abu Bakr, Chairman of the Palestinian Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs Commission, said on Sunday.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
Click to expand...

False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.

There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.

Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.


It is an uphill battle but I will try. Palestinians are not terrorisrs in Palestine. They are only terrorists to foreign juvenile name callers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's the usual inversion of reality that defines the territories occupied by the Fatah and Hamas islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority says 'pay for slay' deduction is terrorism, piracy
> 
> 
> The Israeli security cabinet's decision to deduct NIS 597 million from the tax money Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority is a crime tantamount to terrorism and piracy, according to Qadri Abu Bakr, chairman of the Palestinian Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs Commission.  On...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem Post  Breaking News
> 
> Palestinian Authority says 'pay for slay' deduction is terrorism, piracy
> By KHALED ABU TOAMEH   JULY 12, 2021 01:43
> 
> The Israeli security cabinet’s decision to deduct NIS 597 million from the tax money Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority is a crime tantamount to terrorism and piracy, Qadri Abu Bakr, Chairman of the Palestinian Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs Commission, said on Sunday.


Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the usual inversion of reality that defines the territories occupied by the Fatah and Hamas islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority says 'pay for slay' deduction is terrorism, piracy
> 
> 
> The Israeli security cabinet's decision to deduct NIS 597 million from the tax money Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority is a crime tantamount to terrorism and piracy, according to Qadri Abu Bakr, chairman of the Palestinian Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs Commission.  On...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem Post  Breaking News
> 
> Palestinian Authority says 'pay for slay' deduction is terrorism, piracy
> By KHALED ABU TOAMEH   JULY 12, 2021 01:43
> 
> The Israeli security cabinet’s decision to deduct NIS 597 million from the tax money Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority is a crime tantamount to terrorism and piracy, Qadri Abu Bakr, Chairman of the Palestinian Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs Commission, said on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
Click to expand...

What is being stolen?

Can you copy and paste a youtube video to explain it?


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
Click to expand...

Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.

Got that Abe


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
Click to expand...

No Dusty, I did not get it.  

We are not talking about Adam and Eve.  
The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.

And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.

So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.

My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.

Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.

The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.

What are the odds?


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
Click to expand...

Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.

Enjoy denouncing your own religion

Dumbass


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
Click to expand...

I am a what you call me, you are dense.

Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.

Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.

Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.

Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.

It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.


Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.

But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.

Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"


The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
Click to expand...

Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.

Yawn


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
Click to expand...

You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.

Yawn


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
Click to expand...

Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres

Is that really the best you have Abe

Triple dog dare YAWN


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres
> 
> Is that really the best you have Abe
Click to expand...

I am not seeing the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, and other semites making the same claim, only the people from Arabia who created a religion full of superiority and hatred towards Jews, so much that Jews are not allowed to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, it MUST stay in the hands of Muslims.

Muslims, the guardians of the Jewish Homeland.

Palestinians so care that they are "related" to the Jews, that when the Hashemites took 78% of that land, they yawned.  And continue to yawn about it.
--------------------------
Telomeres are an essential part of human cells that affect how our cells age.1,2


© What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
Source: What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
------------------
That is the depth of your knowledge about what you insist is true.


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres
> 
> Is that really the best you have Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, and other semites making the same claim, only the people from Arabia who created a religion full of superiority and hatred towards Jews, so much that Jews are not allowed to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, it MUST stay in the hands of Muslims.
> 
> Muslims, the guardians of the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Palestinians so care that they are "related" to the Jews, that when the Hashemites took 78% of that land, they yawned.  And continue to yawn about it.
> --------------------------
> Telomeres are an essential part of human cells that affect how our cells age.1,2
> 
> 
> © What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> Source: What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> ------------------
> That is the depth of your knowledge about what you insist is true.
Click to expand...

Actually the claim that all jews and arabs are related comes from the jews and the old testament and from the science of DNA telomere dating.  So science and the jewish religion are in agreement that jews and palistinians are the same.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Dusty said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres
> 
> Is that really the best you have Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, and other semites making the same claim, only the people from Arabia who created a religion full of superiority and hatred towards Jews, so much that Jews are not allowed to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, it MUST stay in the hands of Muslims.
> 
> Muslims, the guardians of the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Palestinians so care that they are "related" to the Jews, that when the Hashemites took 78% of that land, they yawned.  And continue to yawn about it.
> --------------------------
> Telomeres are an essential part of human cells that affect how our cells age.1,2
> 
> 
> © What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> Source: What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> ------------------
> That is the depth of your knowledge about what you insist is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the claim that all jews and arabs are related comes from the jews and the old testament and from the science of DNA telomere dating.  So science and the jewish religion are in agreement that jews and palistinians are the same.
Click to expand...

Zero links, Zero evidence, Full blown lies which work only amongst Christians and Muslims who have been taught to hate Jews.


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres
> 
> Is that really the best you have Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, and other semites making the same claim, only the people from Arabia who created a religion full of superiority and hatred towards Jews, so much that Jews are not allowed to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, it MUST stay in the hands of Muslims.
> 
> Muslims, the guardians of the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Palestinians so care that they are "related" to the Jews, that when the Hashemites took 78% of that land, they yawned.  And continue to yawn about it.
> --------------------------
> Telomeres are an essential part of human cells that affect how our cells age.1,2
> 
> 
> © What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> Source: What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> ------------------
> That is the depth of your knowledge about what you insist is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the claim that all jews and arabs are related comes from the jews and the old testament and from the science of DNA telomere dating.  So science and the jewish religion are in agreement that jews and palistinians are the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zero links, Zero evidence, Full blown lies which work only amongst Christians and Muslims who have been taught to hate Jews.
Click to expand...

So you are denying that jews believe that eve was the mother of every jew and palistinian.

Why do you deny the obvious?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dusty said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres
> 
> Is that really the best you have Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, and other semites making the same claim, only the people from Arabia who created a religion full of superiority and hatred towards Jews, so much that Jews are not allowed to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, it MUST stay in the hands of Muslims.
> 
> Muslims, the guardians of the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Palestinians so care that they are "related" to the Jews, that when the Hashemites took 78% of that land, they yawned.  And continue to yawn about it.
> --------------------------
> Telomeres are an essential part of human cells that affect how our cells age.1,2
> 
> 
> © What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> Source: What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> ------------------
> That is the depth of your knowledge about what you insist is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the claim that all jews and arabs are related comes from the jews and the old testament and from the science of DNA telomere dating.  So science and the jewish religion are in agreement that jews and palistinians are the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zero links, Zero evidence, Full blown lies which work only amongst Christians and Muslims who have been taught to hate Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are denying that jews believe that eve was the mother of every jew and palistinian.
> 
> Why do you deny the obvious?
Click to expand...

Because you are sick. And nothing is going to change your sickness until you want to do so.


----------



## Dusty

Sixties Fan said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> 
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> Dusty said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> Dusty said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Dusty said:
> 
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Dusty said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
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> Dusty said:
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> Sixties Fan said:
> 
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> Dusty said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Permanent Status of "Negotiations" and the Dispute Resolution Process.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I'm not sure.  But is this action, taken on the part of Israel, not in keeping with the spirit and intent of International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any excuse to steal Palestinian's stuff. Oy!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are alleging some sort of "theft" ("steal Palestinian's stuff").
> 
> Unravel this mystery for me.
> 
> It would be Israel that breaks the law by providing that funding used to provide a post-action stipend for terrorist acts.  AND, it is the responsibility and duty of every nation (_including Israel_) to devise and adopt measures for the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators (_including the Hostile Arab Palestinians_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> *NOTES:..............................................................*
> 
> Article 2.   *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism*
> 
> 1.   Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out:​​(a)  An act which constitutes an offence within the scope of and as defined in one of the treaties listed in the annex; or​​(b)  Any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again there is no palestine nor are there any palistinians as the Jews and the jews who call themselves palistinians all had the same mother 6000 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the parallel  universe you seem to live on.
> 
> No Jew calls themselves a Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are just that, Arabs from Arabia being given a fable of being descended from Abraham and Ishmael.
> 
> The Muslims will never try to explain where was that knowledge of any blood relation for 2400 years between Arabs and Jews, especially that of the tribe of Mohammad and Ishmael and Abraham.
> 
> ALL o f a sudden........Mohammad wants to create a religion and HE is descended from Abraham via Ishmael, via a distortion of what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures.
> 
> There is no "1001 Arabian Nights" fable which will ever make that come true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again DNA telomere examination has determined that 6000 years ago all palestinians and jews had the same mother.  Just a fact kid.  Does this disturb you knowing that everybody is equal in the big picture
> 
> See kid 6000 years ago there were no religions, just dummies in the desert, like today, the only difference is that today they wear different hats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False studies trying to SHOVE the Arabs into the Jewish DNA, and only since Israel became independent in 1948.
> 
> There is no fantasy the Arabs will not come up with to try to destroy Israel and turn the area into an Arab majority in a ONE state, wiping Israel out.
> 
> Nice try.  Not true.  Ever true.  Will never be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually according to Genesis which is Israeli law all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and 6000 years ago all jews and palestinians had the same mother.  So in this instance science and religion are in total agreement.
> 
> Got that Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No Dusty, I did not get it.
> 
> We are not talking about Adam and Eve.
> The Arabs do not talk about Adam and Eve.  They talk about Ishmael and his mother, and that would be about 3800 years ago as the foundation of the Arab people.
> 
> And the Arabs are contradicting themselves by now saying that waves of Arabs went out of Arabia into Ancient Canaan, 10,000 years ago.
> 
> So, Arabs did identify as Arabs 10,000 years ago, while the Arabs themselves are saying that the Arab people come from Ishmael about 3800 years ago.
> 
> My math says that there are 6200 between what the Arabs are now saying and what Mohammad and the Arabs started saying 1400 years ago when Islam was created.
> 
> Fable, Fake, Phony, all in the name of destroying Israel because it is a Jewish State.
> 
> The Jews, those Islam has taught Muslims to hate and blame over everything.  But ONLY since Mohammad "discovered" his genealogical tree.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Enjoy denouncing your own religion
> 
> Dumbass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a what you call me, you are dense.
> 
> Not for a second it enters your mind, that if Arabs can claim that they are related to the Jews via Adam and Eve, than so are ALL other people on the planet and ALL should be claiming relations to the Jews, not ONLY the Palestinians.
> 
> Wait, I am not seeing or hearing of any other indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Europe or the Americas making any claims to the area known as Ancient Canaan.
> 
> Either they are not greedy, or they do not have a death wish on Jews, the way Christianity and Islam have had since 2000 and 1400 years ago, who insist that the Jews are the only ones who do not have the right to have sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland as long as it was conquered by Muslims.
> 
> Adam and Eve be darned to them.  They could not care less about Adam and Eve.
> 
> It is now, and always has been about Muslims being ok with other Muslims conquering them, but the Christians and Jews must be defeated if they ever conquer any land the Muslims conquered.
> 
> 
> Jews do not teach that Arabs and Jews are related via Adam and Eve.  It would and should include all the other humans on the planet.
> 
> But no other people have such hatred for Jews as a free sovereign people, that they will teach their children to go kill Jews by any lie they can come up with.
> 
> Children as young as 11 have been made to go kill a Jew in the name of "Palestine" being theirs and Jewish history not existing, and the Jews in Israel being all "Europeans"
> 
> 
> The Muslim nose is so long that it is going out into space into other galaxies, as we speak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the jews believe the old testament and that all humans both jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are having a religious discussion on a Political forum.
> 
> Yawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually that all jews and palistinians had the same mother 6000 years ago is a scientific discussion based on telomeres
> 
> Is that really the best you have Abe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not seeing the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, and other semites making the same claim, only the people from Arabia who created a religion full of superiority and hatred towards Jews, so much that Jews are not allowed to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland, it MUST stay in the hands of Muslims.
> 
> Muslims, the guardians of the Jewish Homeland.
> 
> Palestinians so care that they are "related" to the Jews, that when the Hashemites took 78% of that land, they yawned.  And continue to yawn about it.
> --------------------------
> Telomeres are an essential part of human cells that affect how our cells age.1,2
> 
> 
> © What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> Source: What is a Telomere? | Human Cellular Aging | TA-65 TA Sciences
> ------------------
> That is the depth of your knowledge about what you insist is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually the claim that all jews and arabs are related comes from the jews and the old testament and from the science of DNA telomere dating.  So science and the jewish religion are in agreement that jews and palistinians are the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zero links, Zero evidence, Full blown lies which work only amongst Christians and Muslims who have been taught to hate Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are denying that jews believe that eve was the mother of every jew and palistinian.
> 
> Why do you deny the obvious?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you are sick. And nothing is going to change your sickness until you want to do so.
Click to expand...

Why are you claiming that the jewish religion and the old testament is sick for believing the book of genesis?

Yawn


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

"Israel proposed an outline whereby the money from Qatar will be allotted via coupons instead of cash, and we do not agree to that," says a senior Hamas official.​
(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/07/12/hamas-rejects-proposed-mechanism-for-transfer-of-qatari-funds/


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  One Possible Historic Scenario
※→ Dusty, et al,

*BLUF*:  You don't need to drag "Religion" into the discussion, especially in an argumentative tone.



			
				Dusty said:
			
		

> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.


*(COMMENT)*

Genetically speaking, we are all (Probably) related from the distant past.  Well, just 50,000 years ago, the human population was all in Africa (the point of origin for humanity).  They numbered 10,000 (San Bushman).  I think that humanity migrated through the Middle East and Arabia.  (I can't explain Australia).  I'm not a Hebrew, but I probably have a common genetic marker for Early Man for Africa.

I can't explain it all.  But there are clearly genetic markers.  The Hebrew and the Palestinian are related.  They come from the same heritage coming out of Africa.  Every time I hear the pro-Arab Palestinians use ancient history to call the Hebrew a foreign invader, I just have to chuckle.







_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  One Possible Historic Scenario
> ※→ Dusty, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  You don't need to drag "Religion" into the discussion, especially in an argumentative tone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry kid the jews believe that all humans are descended from adam and eve, so get over it, you can not wipe out the book of genesis to usher in your wet dream vision of reality.  So again jews teach that all jews and arabs have the same mother who was eve.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Genetically speaking, we are all (Probably) related from the distant past.  Well, just 50,000 years ago, the human population was all in Africa (the point of origin for humanity).  They numbered 10,000 (San Bushman).  I think that humanity migrated through the Middle East and Arabia.  (I can't explain Australia).  I'm not a Hebrew, but I probably have a common genetic marker for Early Man for Africa.
> 
> I can't explain it all.  But there are clearly genetic markers.  The Hebrew and the Palestinian are related.  They come from the same heritage coming out of Africa.  Every time I hear the pro-Arab Palestinians use ancient history to call the Hebrew a foreign invader, I just have to chuckle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...

Rocco, with all due respect, the Hebrews, Jews, are not directly related to the Arabs, Palestinians, anymore than they are to the ancient Babylonians, modern Assyrians, Iranians, Lebanese, Phoenicians, Philistines, etc

Humanity may have come out of Africa, but it was a much longer time ago then 50,000 years ago.

All the continents being attached to each other at one time explains some of the human movement to anywhere.  The Ice age explains the other.


The alleged relation between Jews and ONLY Palestinians only occured  once the Arabs lost all the wars against Israel .  It is a political tool.  There is no scientific, archeological or any other evidence which would show that this allegation could be true.


----------



## Hollie

Hey, no reason to let a $417 million dollar deficit in the first half of 2021 slow down those payments to your Islamic terrorists. It's all just fun money that is thrown into the bottomless pit of the endless welfare fraud that is Pally Arabism. 












						Palestinian Authority Introduces New Way for Terrorists, Families to Get Cash
					

The Palestinian Authority announced a new mechanism on Tuesday for disbursing payments to terrorists and their families by using ATMs at P.A. post offices, according to a report by MEMRI.Those rec




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Palestinian Authority Introduces New Way for Terrorists, Families to Get Cash​https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...ilies-to-get-cash/2021/07/09/&via=JewishPress

Photo Credit: Courtesy of Palestinian Media Watch.


A schedule of payments made by the Palestinian Authority to terrorists jailed in Israeli prisons.

The Palestinian Authority announced a new mechanism on Tuesday for disbursing payments to terrorists and their families by using ATMs at P.A. post offices, according to a report by MEMRI.

Those receiving funds will receive cards for withdrawing money from the P.A. postal bank using ATM machines.


----------



## Hollie

I tend to whince when I hear "Pal'istanian activist". These activists find common cause with hyper-religious psychopaths who are as willing to kill their own as they are Israelis. 







__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				






Solidarity with ‘Palestine’ Means Kalashnikovs for Kids
By A. J. CASCHETTA
July 13, 2021 6:30 AM



Palestinian youths hold weapons during a military-style graduation ceremony after being trained at one of the Hamas-run Liberation Camps in Gaza City in 2015. (Suhaib Salem/Reuters)
Islamist groups run summer terrorism camps for children.

All the academics who sign statements of solidarity with “Palestine” claim to have done so out of a deep respect for human rights. Their advocacy for Palestinians and refusal to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist received a great deal of attention in June, but their silence regarding the villains who train, equip, and brainwash Palestinian children into becoming child warriors has gone mostly unnoticed for many years. Since these academics don’t seem to care about the human rights of Israelis, they should consider what role they play in denying the rights of Palestinian children.


----------



## Hollie

It's important to understand that the hate oozing out of the Pally enclaves represents an ideology. The ideology is a brutish, unreformed, politico-religious ideology that has been largely static since the 7th century.

There's a reason why we don't see heavily armed groups of Episcopalians committing suicide bombings and attacks on civilians.













						Want peace? Stop hateful incitement of Palestinian youth
					

Almost every facet of Palestinian life has been engaged to spread hateful messages against Jews and Israel—including the indoctrination of Palestinian children.




					www.jns.org
				




Almost every facet of Palestinian life has been engaged to spread hateful messages against Jews and Israel—including the indoctrination of Palestinian children.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The PIJ franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc.,_ is in a snit. The Pally squatters have insisted on constructing buildings without permits - the Pally colonial squatter project.

Very odd, though. With the billions of welfare dollars amassed by Hamas, they never seem to come forward and provide assistance for the “poor, oppressed Pal’istanians”. 











						Palestinian terror group calls for 'resistance' after Jerusalem razing
					

"These crimes and terrorism targeting Jerusalemites require action to activate all required measures to protect and rescue them."




					m.jpost.com
				






"These crimes and terrorism targeting Jerusalemites require action to activate all required measures to protect and rescue them, and to strengthen their steadfastness in the face of ethnic cleansing policies and all the crimes committed by the terrorist occupation against them," said Salmi, calling for the activation of the "resistance in all its forms" in response.

Salmi's comments come just hours after Muhammad Nassar Al-Husseini was forced to demolish his home in the Silwan neighborhood of east Jerusalem on Tuesday morning due to the fact that he lacked a permit when he built the building. After the demolition, three families are now left without a home to live in, according to Palestinian reports.


----------



## Hollie

Head Of Indoctrination At Palestinian Islamic Jihad On Upcoming Summer Camps For 14-17 Year-Olds​


It must be so rewarding for Pally parents when their little darlings graduate from the Hamas Hitler Youth summer camp and eventually go on to die in a failed gee-had attack.


----------



## Hollie

Huh! While Saddham Hussein, Yassir Arafat or Ahmed Yassin are not heroes in any traditional western norm, dictators and Islamic terrorists are so often heroes in the Arab world.​

Saddam Hussein among Fatah’s role models for kids - What did you learn in summer camp today? #2​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 13, 2021









						Saddam Hussein among Fatah’s role models for kids - What did you learn in summer camp today? #2 | PMW Analysis
					

“We do not forget to remind our children of those who brought us glory” – text on images of Arafat, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, and ex-Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein




					www.palwatch.org
				




*“We do not forget to remind our children of those who brought us glory” – text on images of Arafat, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, and ex-Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein*​





In a Fatah summer camp, Palestinian children were taught that arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, and ex-Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein are role models.
In a video posted by Fatah showing part of the activities at the camp, kids are seen holding pictures of former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat standing with former Iraqi President and dictator Saddam Hussein, while another child is holding a picture of Arafat and Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin. As these images are shown the following text appears on the edited video:


> *“We do not forget to remind our children of those who brought us glory”*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian human rights group Al Haq issued a report in 2018 about how poorly the Palestinian governments were following the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW.)

The first few pages blames Israel as the primary reason Palestinian women are discriminated against, which is what one expects from any and every human rights report that comes out from Palestinian organizations. But finally, in paragraph 10, we see that Al Haq accuses Mahmoud Abbas of prety much being a dictator, without saying it directly:



> The on-going internal Palestinian political divide has had adverse consequences on the human rights situation. With the PLC ceasing to function, the executive branch of government has monopolised both legislative and executive functions. Transparency and public dialogue are largely absent in the law and policy-making processes. The justice system is also compromised by executive interference, leading to an absence of accountability and redress for victims. The executive has further placed increasing restrictions on civil society organisations, (CSO) such as restrictions on financial transactions, including where the salaries of CSO employees are only transferred following the approval of the Ministry of Interior. These restrictions are imposed without any legal basis.


Then it goes into details on the misogynist laws and practices of the Palestinian Authority, and how it made practically no progress in adhering to the convention that it signed, a point I have made in the past. 




> The body of Palestinian legislation in force in the West Bank and Gaza Strip do not contain a definition of “discrimination against women” as found under Article 1 of CEDAW. Operative Palestinian legislation also does not include any provisions to the effect of criminalising any form of discrimination specifically against women.



(full article online)









						2018 Al Haq report details how women are mistreated in Palestinian territories
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Difficult times for the Hamas welfare fraud syndicate. There is a lot of Qatari cash stuffed in suitcases that Hamas wants delivered to Gaza without any accountability for its distribution. 

"Money for nothin'"





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/07/14/egyptian-mediators-optimistic-over-hamas-israel-prisoner-swap-deal/
		


Eyeing Qatari cash, Hamas says 'time not playing in Israel's favor'
The Gaza Strip-based terrorist group threatens to renew attacks against Israel unless it receives influx of donor cash free of any preconditions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Most public figures would suffer a loss of credibility after shilling for Hamas in such an obtuse manner, but not Awad — for one simple reason: he has no credibility left to lose. At the 2018 Christ at the Checkpoint Conference, Awad, a former Methodist missionary, revealed his animus toward Jews who dare work at the White House. During the conference, Awad displayed a slide with the picture of three White House officials surrounding a headshot of Donald Trump: Jason Greenblatt, Trump’s special representative for international negotiations; David Friedman, US ambassador to Israel; and Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and senior advisor. The images were accompanied by the words, “Foul! A Recipe for Failure.”

Awad then told his audience to look at the picture.

“Anything wrong?” he asked. “What’s wrong?”

One audience member said, “They’re all Jews!” And another said, “They’re all Jewish.”

Awad then drove the point home.

“They’re all Jewish,” he said. “Millionaires or billionaires.”

Maybe this helps explain why Awad is willing to shill for Hamas, because they have something in common — a contempt for Jews.

Article 22 of the original Hamas covenant declared that its enemies (the Jews, of course) “have been scheming for a long time […]  and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media … With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe [….] There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it.”

As it turns out, Hamas has updated its covenant, declaring now that its problem isn’t with Judaism as a religion, but with Jews who insist on maintaining their self-determination (AKA, “Zionists”).

(full article online)









						The Palestinian Christians Defending Hamas
					

Gaza’s Hamas Chief Yehya Al-Sinwar talks to media, in Gaza City October 28, 2019. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem/ Most would-be “peacemakers” in …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Most public figures would suffer a loss of credibility after shilling for Hamas in such an obtuse manner, but not Awad — for one simple reason: he has no credibility left to lose. At the 2018 Christ at the Checkpoint Conference, Awad, a former Methodist missionary, revealed his animus toward Jews who dare work at the White House. During the conference, Awad displayed a slide with the picture of three White House officials surrounding a headshot of Donald Trump: Jason Greenblatt, Trump’s special representative for international negotiations; David Friedman, US ambassador to Israel; and Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and senior advisor. The images were accompanied by the words, “Foul! A Recipe for Failure.”
> 
> Awad then told his audience to look at the picture.
> 
> “Anything wrong?” he asked. “What’s wrong?”
> 
> One audience member said, “They’re all Jews!” And another said, “They’re all Jewish.”
> 
> Awad then drove the point home.
> 
> “They’re all Jewish,” he said. “Millionaires or billionaires.”
> 
> Maybe this helps explain why Awad is willing to shill for Hamas, because they have something in common — a contempt for Jews.
> 
> Article 22 of the original Hamas covenant declared that its enemies (the Jews, of course) “have been scheming for a long time […]  and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media … With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe [….] There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it.”
> 
> As it turns out, Hamas has updated its covenant, declaring now that its problem isn’t with Judaism as a religion, but with Jews who insist on maintaining their self-determination (AKA, “Zionists”).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Christians Defending Hamas
> 
> 
> Gaza’s Hamas Chief Yehya Al-Sinwar talks to media, in Gaza City October 28, 2019. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem/ Most would-be “peacemakers” in …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com





Sixties Fan said:


> “They’re all Jewish,” he said. “Millionaires or billionaires.”



So, what is not true?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most public figures would suffer a loss of credibility after shilling for Hamas in such an obtuse manner, but not Awad — for one simple reason: he has no credibility left to lose. At the 2018 Christ at the Checkpoint Conference, Awad, a former Methodist missionary, revealed his animus toward Jews who dare work at the White House. During the conference, Awad displayed a slide with the picture of three White House officials surrounding a headshot of Donald Trump: Jason Greenblatt, Trump’s special representative for international negotiations; David Friedman, US ambassador to Israel; and Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and senior advisor. The images were accompanied by the words, “Foul! A Recipe for Failure.”
> 
> Awad then told his audience to look at the picture.
> 
> “Anything wrong?” he asked. “What’s wrong?”
> 
> One audience member said, “They’re all Jews!” And another said, “They’re all Jewish.”
> 
> Awad then drove the point home.
> 
> “They’re all Jewish,” he said. “Millionaires or billionaires.”
> 
> Maybe this helps explain why Awad is willing to shill for Hamas, because they have something in common — a contempt for Jews.
> 
> Article 22 of the original Hamas covenant declared that its enemies (the Jews, of course) “have been scheming for a long time […]  and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media … With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe [….] There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it.”
> 
> As it turns out, Hamas has updated its covenant, declaring now that its problem isn’t with Judaism as a religion, but with Jews who insist on maintaining their self-determination (AKA, “Zionists”).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Christians Defending Hamas
> 
> 
> Gaza’s Hamas Chief Yehya Al-Sinwar talks to media, in Gaza City October 28, 2019. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem/ Most would-be “peacemakers” in …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “They’re all Jewish,” he said. “Millionaires or billionaires.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, what is not true?
Click to expand...


That being Jewish or rich
somehow makes one _'wrong'_.

Apparently you don't think so.


----------



## Hollie

_*Shocking!*_

Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?












						UN funds millions to Palestinian groups with terror ties - Im Tirtzu
					

In a new report, Im Tirtzu expressed the need for increased transparency in funding reporting, citing their advocacy for a UN-equivalent of Taylor Force Act.




					www.jpost.com
				




A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.

The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN funds millions to Palestinian groups with terror ties - Im Tirtzu
> 
> 
> In a new report, Im Tirtzu expressed the need for increased transparency in funding reporting, citing their advocacy for a UN-equivalent of Taylor Force Act.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.


They do not use our name calling list.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN funds millions to Palestinian groups with terror ties - Im Tirtzu
> 
> 
> In a new report, Im Tirtzu expressed the need for increased transparency in funding reporting, citing their advocacy for a UN-equivalent of Taylor Force Act.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
Click to expand...

Oh, dear. Your feelings are hurt.


----------



## Hollie

Senior Hamas Official in Rally for Hamas ‘Martyrs’: There Can Be No Peace with the Treacherous Jews​



Golly. This complicates the “peace partner” thing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
​






​


P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."

◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.

*(ADDITIONALLY)*

By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → 

◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.

The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...

Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.

Is that terrorism?

Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Yes, Palestinian terrorism is terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Your glaringly inept excuses for islamic terrorism are an embarrassment.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Avi Shlaim's 2008 biography of Jordan's King Hussein. he recounts an episode from Hussein's father King Abdullah I:


> One question that has continued to puzzle observers is: why did Abdullah disregard all the warnings and keep to his plan of Friday prayers in Jerusalem [the day he was assassinated]?
> 
> One possible answer, which was long to remain a closely guarded secret, is that Abdullah had arranged to meet two Israeli officials in Jerusalem the next day, Saturday, 21 July 1951.
> 
> The two officials were Reuven Shiloah and Moshe Sasson, who was continuing the negotiations for a peace treaty that his father, Elias, had begun.
> 
> At one of their first meetings, Moshe Sasson asked Abdullah, "Why do you want to make peace with Israel?" The king replied, "I want to make peace with Israel not because I have become a Zionist or care for Israel's welfare but because it is in the interest of my people. I am convinced that if we do not make peace with you, there will be another war, and another war, and another war, and another war, and we shall lose all these wars. Hence it is the supreme interest of the Arab nation to make peace with you."



Self-interest always wins. 

Unfortunately, Jew-hatred is so widespread in the Arab world that Arab leaders have to be concerned about the possibility of their regimes becoming unstable from their antisemitic subjects who hate Jews more than they care about their own country. This changes their own self-interest calculations.

(full article online)









						The logic of Arab peace with Israel - from Jordan's King Abdullah I
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves )

Assistance Mission for the Rafah Crossing began working in January 2006 to be a third party observer on people crossing the border between Egypt and Gaza, under Palestinian Authority control and with Israel watching remotely to ensure security.

Hamas took over Gaza in 2007, and after being there for less than 18 months, EUBAM-Rafah no longer had any reason to exist.

It still exists, waiting and hoping for the PA to take over Gaza and turn the clock back to 2006. In its own words, for 14 years "it  has  maintained  its readiness  to  redeploy  to  the  RCP (Rafah Crossing Point)  including  launching  a Preparedness  Project,  designed  to  enhance  the  Palestinian Authority’s  capacity  and  readiness  to  return  to  the  RCP."

There are 18 people working there, doing virtually nothing while living in Tel Aviv and drawing salaries.

Its mandate gets renewed every year. 

Its annual budget is  €2,040,000.

(full article online)









						The EU still spends €2 million annually to maintain the utterly useless EUBAM-Rafah contingent, hoping Hamas goes away
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The veteran _Haaretz_ journalist quotes Maher al-Najjar, the deputy director of the Gaza Coastal Municipalities Water Utility, “There is nothing more humanitarian that [sic] a regular supply of potable water, but we can’t guarantee that, due to the ban against bringing in basic raw materials and construction materials to the Strip.”

Why didn’t Hass question al-Najjar about his government’s own filling of water pipes with explosives instead of water? What is humanitarian about Hamas turning critical water infrastructure into rockets to indiscriminately attack Israeli civilians in a war crime, all the while depriving its own population of access to the basic necessity?



Speaking in Arabic in 2019, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar openly acknowledged the facts that Hass conceals:



> One day, some leaders of the Al-Qassam [Brigades] came. They were [responsible] for [missile] production. They said: “There are no pipes with which we can produce missiles. We are out of pipes. There is a ban on bringing iron in from outside, and we cannot bring them through the tunnels – these are long pipes. We will cease production within a month.” I said that Allah will help us find a way. Then, a simple farmer approached one of the men from the Brigades. He said: “I heard that you’re having a problem with pipes for missile production.” The young man told him this was true. The [farmer] said: “I will give you the solution for this.” [The young man said:] “What is it?” He answered: “Come with me.” They went together to the liberated [Israeli] settlements [in Gush Katif]. The [farmer] said: ‘Stop here and let’s get out [of the car]. From here, walk five kilometers, and you will find 10-inch pipes. When the occupiers left the Gaza Strip, they left the irrigation lines. Come here. From here, if you walk straight for 10 kilometers, you will find eight-inch pipes. Come this way. Walk six kilometers, and there are [various] kinds of piping. It is easy to dig here.” The brothers started digging and removed from the ground the pipes that the occupier left behind when it left the Gaza Strip. These would be enough for the Al-Qassam Brigades to manufacture missiles for the next ten years. [Translation by MEMRI.]



(full article online)









						Lamenting Gaza's Water Woes, Haaretz's Amira Hass Conceals Pipes-to-Rockets Industry
					

Amira Hass solely blames Israeli restrictions for a shortage of water pipes in the Gaza Strip, and falsely credits the Gaza authorities with 'major




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The _Financial Times_ correspondent introduces Kurd as “_a 23-year-old Palestinian writer and hero to many young people around the region_” who “lambasts Israeli repression as he points to stun grenades fired by police the night before”. Kurd, we’re then told, “is fighting Israeli settlers’ attempts to evict him from his home in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood”.

Of course, no information is provided to inform readers that the court battle has been going on for decades, centers around the Palestinian tenants’ refusal to pay rent, and that the tenants have reportedly refused compromises that would have given them protected status and allowed them to continue living in the homes.

As one Palestinian Sheikh Jarrah resident clearly put it, he “would never recognize Jewish ownership of his Sheikh Jarrah home”.

The FT article continues, with rhetoric that was featured in the strap line:



> Kurd and his twin sister Muna are part of a new Palestinian generation, whose calls for justice echo the same values of equality that fuel global campaigns such as Black Lives Matter. The twins, who have a huge social media following, post regularly about their fight to save their home.


In addition to the fact that the Black Lives Matter organisation (as opposed to the general movement for Black equal rights) has been compromised by antisemitism, the comparison between BLM and the Israeli-Palestinian issue is intellectually unserious, as the conflict has never been about race, equality or Palestinian rights as the words are understood in popular Western discourse.

Rather, to the degree that it _has_ been around rights, equality or race at all, it’s about the Palestinians refusal to recognize the Jewish _right_ of self-determination, the Israeli demand that Jewish nationalism be granted _equality_ with other expressions of nationalism, and the fact that anti-Jewish _racism_ within Palestinian society is a main driver of the conflict.

As far as Kurd’s social media presence, the FT journalist fails to note that he has, at times, shared false, incendiary and hateful content to his “huge” Twitter following.

(full article online)









						Life’s certainties: death, taxes and fawning profiles of anti-Zionist ‘activists’
					

To borrow upon, and take considerable liberties with, a quote by a famous American, there are only 'three' certainties in life: death, taxes...and the fawning,




					camera-uk.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Whether it is "international terrorism" or "domestic terrorism" is immaterial.  The territorial dispute, which should be resolved by negotiation - and NOT by conflict, has no bearing on the issues. 



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

I already gave you the definition of terrorism.  Whether it is international terrorism or domestic terrorism is immaterial. (See ICRC "IAC" 'v' "NIAC")

Excerpt:  "their own borders"     What is "their own borders?"​
The concepts of "state borders" - "sovereignty" - "self-determination" - "independence" - "use of force in self-defense" → are all entangled.  

Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Determination?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Independence?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Defense?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish Domestic Law?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish their own Border and Immigration Control?"​​The people we call Arab Palestinians or non-Israeli _(whichever you prefer)_ have not lived or were born inside the territory_ (except for a very small number over 70 years of age - and not all of them at that)_ the Israeli claim sovereignty over.  Do they have any right to change the determination of the Israeli?

Do the Israeli have to open the borders/security barriers and submit_ (by whatever authority)_ to the acceptance of undesirable threats to peace and security?  ​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that have openly stated that they cannot live in peace with the Jews?​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that rave against the new peace initiatives being established with other Arab Nations?​​Do the Israeli (*unemployment rate of 5.5%*), have been rated as the highest nation on the Human Development Index in the Middle East, put their economy at risk by a flood of non-Israelis _(from the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ that have not had a period of unemployment lower that 20% in over a decade?​
These are all entanglements that need to be unraveled before any meaningful change sets the stage for Arab Palestinian domination of Israel.





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Palestinian terrorism is terrorism.
Click to expand...

No link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Whether it is "international terrorism" or "domestic terrorism" is immaterial.  The territorial dispute, which should be resolved by negotiation - and NOT by conflict, has no bearing on the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I already gave you the definition of terrorism.  Whether it is international terrorism or domestic terrorism is immaterial. (See ICRC "IAC" 'v' "NIAC")
> 
> Excerpt:  "their own borders"     What is "their own borders?"​
> The concepts of "state borders" - "sovereignty" - "self-determination" - "independence" - "use of force in self-defense" → are all entangled.
> 
> Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Determination?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Independence?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Defense?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish Domestic Law?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish their own Border and Immigration Control?"​​The people we call Arab Palestinians or non-Israeli _(whichever you prefer)_ have not lived or were born inside the territory_ (except for a very small number over 70 years of age - and not all of them at that)_ the Israeli claim sovereignty over.  Do they have any right to change the determination of the Israeli?
> 
> Do the Israeli have to open the borders/security barriers and submit_ (by whatever authority)_ to the acceptance of undesirable threats to peace and security?  ​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that have openly stated that they cannot live in peace with the Jews?​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that rave against the new peace initiatives being established with other Arab Nations?​​Do the Israeli (*unemployment rate of 5.5%*), have been rated as the highest nation on the Human Development Index in the Middle East, put their economy at risk by a flood of non-Israelis _(from the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ that have not had a period of unemployment lower that 20% in over a decade?​
> These are all entanglements that need to be unraveled before any meaningful change sets the stage for Arab Palestinian domination of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The concepts of "state borders"


You always duck that then base your conclusions on false premise.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Whether it is "international terrorism" or "domestic terrorism" is immaterial.  The territorial dispute, which should be resolved by negotiation - and NOT by conflict, has no bearing on the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I already gave you the definition of terrorism.  Whether it is international terrorism or domestic terrorism is immaterial. (See ICRC "IAC" 'v' "NIAC")
> 
> Excerpt:  "their own borders"     What is "their own borders?"​
> The concepts of "state borders" - "sovereignty" - "self-determination" - "independence" - "use of force in self-defense" → are all entangled.
> 
> Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Determination?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Independence?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Defense?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish Domestic Law?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish their own Border and Immigration Control?"​​The people we call Arab Palestinians or non-Israeli _(whichever you prefer)_ have not lived or were born inside the territory_ (except for a very small number over 70 years of age - and not all of them at that)_ the Israeli claim sovereignty over.  Do they have any right to change the determination of the Israeli?
> 
> Do the Israeli have to open the borders/security barriers and submit_ (by whatever authority)_ to the acceptance of undesirable threats to peace and security?  ​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that have openly stated that they cannot live in peace with the Jews?​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that rave against the new peace initiatives being established with other Arab Nations?​​Do the Israeli (*unemployment rate of 5.5%*), have been rated as the highest nation on the Human Development Index in the Middle East, put their economy at risk by a flood of non-Israelis _(from the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ that have not had a period of unemployment lower that 20% in over a decade?​
> These are all entanglements that need to be unraveled before any meaningful change sets the stage for Arab Palestinian domination of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concepts of "state borders"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You always duck that then base your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...

You have been copying and pasting that embarrassing slogan for years.


----------



## Hollie

There are some catchy tunes coming out of the islamic terrorist enclaves. They're even acknowledged as a means of “incitement and mobilization,” for the islamo-yutes. 

Breeding that next generation of sociopaths and suicide bombers. 



“Mighty is the hand that blows up a plane” – PA TV broadcasts Fatah terror song

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 15, 2021
“Victorious is the hand that blows up a tank”
Songs are a means of “incitement and mobilization,” need to “increase incitement” to young generation, says Palestinian composer


When broadcasting footage from a Fatah rally in Ramallah in support of the Palestinian Authority, official PA TV added background music to video footage. What kind of music? Explicit terror promotion!

The song PA TV added to visuals of thousands of demonstrators with yellow Fatah flags encourages violence and terror, and praises as “victorious” and “mighty” the hands that “blow up” tanks and planes:


----------



## Sixties Fan

When broadcasting footage from a Fatah rally in Ramallah in support of the Palestinian Authority, official PA TV added background music to video footage. What kind of music? Explicit terror promotion!

The song PA TV added to visuals of thousands of demonstrators with yellow Fatah flags encourages violence and terror, and praises as “victorious” and “mighty” the hands that “blow up” tanks and planes:















(full article online)









						“Mighty is the hand that blows up a plane” – PA TV broadcasts Fatah terror song | PMW Analysis
					

Songs are a means of “incitement and mobilization,” need to “increase incitement” to young generation, says Palestinian composer




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Whether it is "international terrorism" or "domestic terrorism" is immaterial.  The territorial dispute, which should be resolved by negotiation - and NOT by conflict, has no bearing on the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I already gave you the definition of terrorism.  Whether it is international terrorism or domestic terrorism is immaterial. (See ICRC "IAC" 'v' "NIAC")
> 
> Excerpt:  "their own borders"     What is "their own borders?"​
> The concepts of "state borders" - "sovereignty" - "self-determination" - "independence" - "use of force in self-defense" → are all entangled.
> 
> Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Determination?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Independence?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Defense?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish Domestic Law?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish their own Border and Immigration Control?"​​The people we call Arab Palestinians or non-Israeli _(whichever you prefer)_ have not lived or were born inside the territory_ (except for a very small number over 70 years of age - and not all of them at that)_ the Israeli claim sovereignty over.  Do they have any right to change the determination of the Israeli?
> 
> Do the Israeli have to open the borders/security barriers and submit_ (by whatever authority)_ to the acceptance of undesirable threats to peace and security?  ​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that have openly stated that they cannot live in peace with the Jews?​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that rave against the new peace initiatives being established with other Arab Nations?​​Do the Israeli (*unemployment rate of 5.5%*), have been rated as the highest nation on the Human Development Index in the Middle East, put their economy at risk by a flood of non-Israelis _(from the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ that have not had a period of unemployment lower that 20% in over a decade?​
> These are all entanglements that need to be unraveled before any meaningful change sets the stage for Arab Palestinian domination of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concepts of "state borders"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You always duck that then base your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have been copying and pasting that embarrassing slogan for years.
Click to expand...

Still no link, huh?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Palestinian terrorism is terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No link?
Click to expand...











						Definition of TERRORISM
					

the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion… See the full definition




					www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Duck
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concepts of "state borders"
> 
> 
> 
> You always duck that then base your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...

*(QUESTION)*

What did I duck?

What is the false Premise?





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Whether it is "international terrorism" or "domestic terrorism" is immaterial.  The territorial dispute, which should be resolved by negotiation - and NOT by conflict, has no bearing on the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I already gave you the definition of terrorism.  Whether it is international terrorism or domestic terrorism is immaterial. (See ICRC "IAC" 'v' "NIAC")
> 
> Excerpt:  "their own borders"     What is "their own borders?"​
> The concepts of "state borders" - "sovereignty" - "self-determination" - "independence" - "use of force in self-defense" → are all entangled.
> 
> Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Determination?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Independence?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Self-Defense?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish Domestic Law?"​​Do the citizens inside commonly recognized sovereign control called Israel have the "Right to Establish their own Border and Immigration Control?"​​The people we call Arab Palestinians or non-Israeli _(whichever you prefer)_ have not lived or were born inside the territory_ (except for a very small number over 70 years of age - and not all of them at that)_ the Israeli claim sovereignty over.  Do they have any right to change the determination of the Israeli?
> 
> Do the Israeli have to open the borders/security barriers and submit_ (by whatever authority)_ to the acceptance of undesirable threats to peace and security?  ​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that have openly stated that they cannot live in peace with the Jews?​​Do the Israeli have to be subjected to a people that rave against the new peace initiatives being established with other Arab Nations?​​Do the Israeli (*unemployment rate of 5.5%*), have been rated as the highest nation on the Human Development Index in the Middle East, put their economy at risk by a flood of non-Israelis _(from the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ that have not had a period of unemployment lower that 20% in over a decade?​
> These are all entanglements that need to be unraveled before any meaningful change sets the stage for Arab Palestinian domination of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concepts of "state borders"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You always duck that then base your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have been copying and pasting that embarrassing slogan for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still no link, huh?
Click to expand...


Link for what?


----------



## Hollie

Let the islamic terrorists make it easy. 







__





						Israel arrests dozens of Hamas operatives after solidarity visit to terrorists’ village | JNS | clevelandjewishnews.com
					





					www.google.com
				




Israeli security forces arrested dozens of Hamas activists on Wednesday near the village of Turmus Aya in Judea and Samaria, the Israel Defense Forces said in a statement.

The suspects, according to the IDF—members of Hamas’s student cell at Birzeit University near Ramallah—were taken into custody shortly after a solidarity visit to the family home of Muntasir Shalabi in the village, according to the Palestinian daily Al Quds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Palestinian terrorism is terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of TERRORISM
> 
> 
> the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion… See the full definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merriam-webster.com
Click to expand...

Where does it mention the Palestinians?

Link?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians."  We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition.  [*Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism* (1938)]
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 512985
> 
> View attachment 512983​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Shocking!*_
> 
> Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
> A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.
> 
> The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use our name calling list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes: "*Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions*."
> But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded _ad Hominen_.  It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."
> 
> ◈  *Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.*​​✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​
> I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine.  I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.
> 
> *(ADDITIONALLY)*
> 
> By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →
> 
> ◈  Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​◈  Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​◈  To intimidate a population​◈  To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​
> Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or  imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.
> 
> The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.
> 
> Is that terrorism?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Palestinian terrorism is terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of TERRORISM
> 
> 
> the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion… See the full definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merriam-webster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it mention the Palestinians?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Palestinian terrorism isn't terrorism? Link?


----------



## Hollie

35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
					

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza*​The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> 35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
> 
> 
> Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza*​The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.


The OAS is a US run organization,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization
> 
> 
> Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza*​The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.
> 
> 
> 
> The OAS is a US run organization,
Click to expand...

You have a conspiracy theory you would like to float?


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is a grain of truth in this announcement. The Israeli Buza ice cream shop chain announced that their own internal testing had identified a small amount of listeria. 

They have four shops, two in Tel Aviv and two in the north. They apparently provide ice cream for other shops but they do not sell their ice cream in commercial packaging. 

Buza ice cream would never have been carried in Palestinian stores. 

 In a normal consumer announcement, the government would specify the brand, the lot numbers, the expiration dates, and tell consumers to discard anything they already bought.  The ministry is doing none of that. 

The ministry is using a real story to try to get Palestinians to think that all Israeli ice cream brands are dangerous.

Incidentally, Buza is co-owned by an Israeli Jew and an Israeli Arab (h/t iTi)

(full article online)









						Palestinian officials claim Israeli ice cream will cause miscarriages
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It’s been decades of propping up a corrupt UN agency provided with the funds to maintain a perpetual endowment for the exclusive use of invented “refugees”, the vast majority of that original group no longer alive. This group provides a continuous stream of sociopathic monsters and this welfare madness goes on.











						The problem with foreign aid for Gaza
					

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.




					m.jpost.com
				



*If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.*​

​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Britain has donated no less than £473,038,638.64 ($632,443,199) to various Palestinian causes in the last five years alone [UK Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office website], and will continue in 2021. In an ironic expression of gratitude, a group of Palestinians submitted a lawsuit to the Palestinian Authority court system against Britain for issuing the Balfour Declaration and for alleged “crimes” of British soldiers against the Palestinian people during the Mandate period.

While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:

-----
At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from  Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.

As Israel’s Prime Minister, Golda Meir once explained, “I am a Palestinian. From [19]21 to [19]48 I held a [British] Palestinian passport.”

(full article online)









						Palestinians sue Britain - as thanks for over half a billion dollars in aid | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinians rewrite history and sue Great Britain demanding it confess that the Balfour Declaration “destroyed the life of an entire Palestinian people.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*:  This particular "Thread" _(question under discussion)_ asks a question that I don't know has a codified answer.

Most of the individual independent nations of the world, throughout the eleven generalized geographic regions, have legal domestic criteria was that define what makes a citizen of what independent nation.




​


Sixties Fan said:


> While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:
> 
> -----
> At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from  Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.


.
*(QUESTION)*

When one individual or person says they are Palestinian, what characteristic and under what legal criteria are they implying they meet?

Israel has very specific legal domestic law covering "citizenship."  Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?" 





_Most Respectfully,
R_



.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  This particular "Thread" _(question under discussion)_ asks a question that I don't know has a codified answer.
> 
> Most of the individual independent nations of the world, throughout the eleven generalized geographic regions, have legal domestic criteria was that define what makes a citizen of what independent nation.
> 
> 
> View attachment 514049​
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:
> 
> -----
> At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from  Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> When one individual or person says they are Palestinian, what characteristic and under what legal criteria are they implying they meet?
> 
> Israel has very specific legal domestic law covering "citizenship."  Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"


It was a part of international law and reiterated in the Treaty of Lausanne and the Palestine Citizenship order of 1925.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  This is a convoluted answer.  It certainly does not answer the question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
> ※→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  This particular "Thread" _(question under discussion)_ asks a question that I don't know has a codified answer.
> 
> Most of the individual independent nations of the world, throughout the eleven generalized geographic regions, have legal domestic criteria was that define what makes a citizen of what independent nation.
> ​
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:
> 
> -----
> At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from  Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> When one individual or person says they are Palestinian, what characteristic and under what legal criteria are they implying they meet?
> 
> Israel has very specific legal domestic law covering "citizenship."  Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a part of international law and reiterated in the Treaty of Lausanne and the Palestine Citizenship order of 1925.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

First, international law does not substitute for domestic law.  If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.  International Law was not created by the people of the proposed nation.

Second, the Treaty of Lausanne (Part I - Section II Nationality - Article 30) speaks to:

◈  Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory​◈  laid down by the local law, ​
_Turkish subjects → Were you ever a "Turkish Subject?"  
What → local law defines a 21st Century "Palestinian?"_

The Palestine Citizenship Order pertains to:

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
Palestine is today (25 Feb 1948) a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.
A Legal Examination of Nationality in Palestine under Britain’s Rule
Chapter V - pp 96, Copyright 2008 by Koninklijke Brill NV, Leiden, The Netherlands.
Copyright Year: 2009
Publication Date: 17 Sep 2008


*Hence, any legal consideration on the future status of individuals who once held Palestinian nationality should start from the point at which the British rule over Palestine was terminated.*

According to this version of Article 2 of the 1925 Citizenship Order, the right​of individuals of this group to opt for Palestinian nationality had to be exercised within two years, from the date on which the Order entered into force (i.e. between 1 August 1925 and 31 July 1927). This indeed is the logic the Order used in its Article 1, Clause (1), which fixed the 1st August 1925 as the starting date of Palestinian nationality for those Turkish subjects residing in Palestine. However, on 12 November 1925, the High Commissioner for Palestine decided by a Proclamation gazetted on 16 November 1925 that the right of option should start retroactively from 6 August 1924.  533 Thus, the time limit to opt for Palestinian nationality was terminated on 5 August 1926, one year after the enactment of the Order. The starting date to exercise the right of option was apparently designed to meet the requirements of Article 34 of the Treaty of Lausanne.​​Substantively, however, in formulating Article 2 of the Citizenship Order, the​drafters narrowly interpreted Article 34 of the Treaty of Lausanne. A critical case before the Supreme Court of Palestine, regrettably, confirmed this narrow interpretation. In its dealings with this group, the Government of Palestine strictly implemented Article 2 and, in so doing, denied thousands of persons born in Palestine the right to acquire Palestinian nationality solely because they happened to have been outside Palestine on the given date.​





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.


Generally, International Law refers to a body of rules that *govern the relations between nations*.​
If your citizenship law places a burden on other nations then international law can apply.

I don't know how to unconfuse you on this.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*   You are the one confused.  Your argument is hardly applicable.  The question is, → what law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship?  It is a basic criterion as a Convention on Rights and Duties of States:

a ) a permanent population; ​No criteria for citizenship.​b ) a defined territory; ​No Borders were established, unique to the State of Palestine _alla_ 2012.​c ) government; ​No functional government able to "stand by themselves."​d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​No ability to set a credible commitment.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, International Law refers to a body of rules that *govern the relations between nations*.​
> If your citizenship law places a burden on other nations then international law can apply.
> 
> I don't know how to unconfuse you on this.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*
.
Please take note.  I said "does not substitute"  'v'  "law can apply."  (Big difference.). There is no International Law that specifically sets the criteria for Palestinian Citizenship for the State of Palestine (_alla_ December 2012).

International Law comes in different flavors.  But in this case, the (so-called) State of Palestine has demonstrated it has not been capable of performing basic legislation on many matters, including "citizenship."  If there is a "burden" on other countries, it is the Ramallah and Gaza Governments that placed a burden on the International Community.  It is the donations by the International Community that have kept these governments afloat.

But as of this date, the State of Palestine cannot identify the requirements for distinguishing their citizenship criteria from others citizens.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) that declared independence in 1988.

The Palestine National Council (PNC)(the legislative body of the PLO) hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​
Like I said, I'm not confused.    What law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship?  How does the PNC tell the difference between a person who qualifies for citizenship and a person who does not qualify for citizenship?
.




_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*   You are the one confused.  Your argument is hardly applicable.  The question is, → what law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship?  It is a basic criterion as a Convention on Rights and Duties of States:
> 
> a ) a permanent population; ​No criteria for citizenship.​b ) a defined territory; ​No Borders were established, unique to the State of Palestine _alla_ 2012.​c ) government; ​No functional government able to "stand by themselves."​d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​No ability to set a credible commitment.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, International Law refers to a body of rules that *govern the relations between nations*.​
> If your citizenship law places a burden on other nations then international law can apply.
> 
> I don't know how to unconfuse you on this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Please take note.  I said "does not substitute"  'v'  "law can apply."  (Big difference.). There is no International Law that specifically sets the criteria for Palestinian Citizenship for the State of Palestine (_alla_ December 2012).
> 
> International Law comes in different flavors.  But in this case, the (so-called) State of Palestine has demonstrated it has not been capable of performing basic legislation on many matters, including "citizenship."  If there is a "burden" on other countries, it is the Ramallah and Gaza Governments that placed a burden on the International Community.  It is the donations by the International Community that have kept these governments afloat.
> 
> But as of this date, the State of Palestine cannot identify the requirements for distinguishing their citizenship criteria from others citizens.  It was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) that declared independence in 1988.
> 
> The Palestine National Council (PNC)(the legislative body of the PLO) hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​
> Like I said, I'm not confused.    What law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship?  How does the PNC tell the difference between a person who qualifies for citizenship and a person who does not qualify for citizenship?
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...

You are bouncing around like a football pretending to have a point. You have to follow the path, step by step, to understand what happened. You step in Israeli bullshit and slide off that path. 

These steps have been documented to you many times Yet you take Israel say so over these documents, I can go through these steps again, however, my experience tells me that that will not help.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  The path has a starting point.

_Hence, any legal consideration on the future status of individuals who once held Palestinian nationality should start from the point at which the British rule over Palestine was terminated._​




P F Tinmore said:


> You are bouncing around like a football pretending to have a point. You have to follow the path, step by step, to understand what happened. You step in Israeli bullshit and slide off that path.
> 
> These steps have been documented to you many times Yet you take Israel say so over these documents, I can go through these steps again, however, my experience tells me that that will not help.


*(COMMENT)*

I responded and refuted each claim you made → as you made them.  I even quoted each claim.

You tried desperately to mask the fact that you cannot cite the "law" pertaining to citizenship criteria for the particular territory under dispute.





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  The path has a starting point.
> 
> _Hence, any legal consideration on the future status of individuals who once held Palestinian nationality should start from the point at which the British rule over Palestine was terminated._​View attachment 514249
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I responded and refuted each claim you made → as you made them.  I even quoted each claim.
> 
> You tried desperately to mask the fact that you cannot cite the "law" pertaining to citizenship criteria for the particular territory under dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_


Step by step.

The Allied Powers decided not to annex the territories of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They decided to create new states. Through treaties they defined the international borders of the new states. Palestine was one of those states. (Confirmed by the LoN and several court decisions.)

The territory was transferred to Palestine and the inhabitants whold be nationals of their new state. (Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.) This was followed up by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925 that gave Palestinian citizenship to the former Ottoman subjects living on that land.

If you disagree with any of these issues, pull it out for discussion.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Step by step.
> 
> The Allied Powers decided not to annex the territories of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They decided to create new states. Through treaties they defined the international borders of the new states. Palestine was one of those states. (Confirmed by the LoN and several court decisions.)
> 
> The territory was transferred to Palestine and the inhabitants whold be nationals of their new state. (Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.) This was followed up by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925 that gave Palestinian citizenship to the former Ottoman subjects living on that land.
> 
> If you disagree with any of these issues, pull it out for discussion.


No territory was transferred to 'Palestine'.


----------



## Hollie

One of the many Islamic terrorist franchises operating out of the territories occupied by many islamic terrorist franchises has a new Emir. 

I'm guessing we'll soon hear a speech from the new Emir about the imminent destruction of israel, the glory of gee-had and the recent child graduates of the Hamas run Hitler Youth who will be sacrificed for the UNRWA welfare dollars. 









						Syria-based breakaway Palestinian faction elects new leader
					

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A breakaway Palestinian faction that carried out...




					www.sfgate.com
				




DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A breakaway Palestinian faction that carried out headline-grabbing attacks against Israel in the 1970s and 1980s has named a veteran new leader after its longtime founder died, the group said Sunday.

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command said Talal Naji, was elected during a meeting in Damascus. He will replace Ahmed Jibril, who died on July 7 after being sick for months.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarifying Misconceptions
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: The Treaty of Lausanne is a good historical document, and a good legal reference; as long as you interpret it correctly.



P F Tinmore said:


> If you disagree with any of these issues, pull it out for discussion.


*(COMMENT)*
.
We don't need a separate discussion.  This misinterpretation _(and in some cases - misinformation)_ of critical historical documents go directly into the heart of the question:   Who Are The Palestinians?

But the Treaty of Lausanne is NOT the central theme it once was a century ago.  You may not realize it, but most of the members of the UN are NOT signatories   Treaty of Lausanne. And in the immediate regional sector under discussion, none of the Arab League members were signatories to the Treaty when they jumped their borders and entered the fray now called the "Arab-Israeli Conflict."

The *1925 Citizenship Order*, once again, applied only to the territory under the British Mandate.  It was created by HM Government for British Mandate.  Part I of that Order sets the criteria.  Read it carefully.

BUT, since the creation of the  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Right*s (CCPR), the perceived inequities and limitations of that British 1925 Order have been largely corrected.
.


P F Tinmore said:


> The territory was transferred to Palestine and the inhabitants whold be nationals of their new state. (Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.) This was followed up by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925 that gave Palestinian citizenship to the former Ottoman subjects living on that land.


*(COMMENT)*
.
Your understanding of Section II Nationality • Article 30 • Treaty of Lausanne is off-center.  Article 30 essentially says that no matter what the government is called, the habitual residents' pickup that nationality.

This is largely overtaken by Article 12 • CCPR:

_*Article 12*_

1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence. ​​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own. ​​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant. ​​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.​
Article 12(3) puts a big dent in who may have the CCPR to enter.  

  Excerpt:
"shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, *are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others*,"​
You can bet that the various photos and videos accumulated from all those demonstrations → will have the photo-recognition software working overtime to justify exercising this exemption.  And believe me when I say, the Israeli Security Services have the technology to capture all those _al-Jazeera_ video clips and the Youtube sources materials (not to mention all those) propaganda press shots of all those Peaceful Arab-Palestinians that tried to overrun the border security barriers or those that sent incendiary devices towards Israeli Civilian Targets.

We will see who can present an effective and compelling presentation.






_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The *1925 Citizenship Order*, once again, applied only to the territory under the British Mandate. It was created by HM Government for British Mandate. Part I of that Order sets the criteria. Read it carefully.





> 1.   (1)  Turkish  subjects  habitually  resident  in  the  *ter**ritory  of  Palestine * upon  the  1st  day  of  August,  1925.  shall become  *Palestinian  citizens.*



---------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:



> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*



So you have a state, territory, and citizens. Where do you see a disagreement?
--------------------
Also:

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:


> “(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a state, territory, and citizens. Where do you see a disagreement?
> --------------------
> Also:
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:



Seriously,
you can't even quote without deception.
Why did you leave out the part about the C, B class mandates?

This need to constantly manipulate and misquote,
reveal that even you don't believe the case has any standing whatsoever.


----------



## rylah

BTW why does it take only 2 years of residence,
to be defined as a "Palestinian" and legit for UNRWA welfare.

Is that what you call a "native",
or a half baked fraud?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarifying Misconceptions
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne has not real play in the question, except to assign "nationality" left in the wake for the Post-War situation.



P F Tinmore said:


> So you have a state, territory, and citizens. Where do you see a disagreement?


*(COMMENT)*

Local Law = Domestic Legislation

National of a State ≠ Habitual inhabitants of the Territory under the Mandate for Palestine.  That territory was, in 1925, a legal entity administered by the High Commissioner and a Council consisting exclusively of British officials.  "Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  There was no state - no state - under the Arab Palestinian legislation.  There was no self-governing institutions by the Arab Palestinians. ​
The Treaty of Lausanne said (in an excerpt): 

"*Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty,* the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*."​​There was no technical transfer.  But the Treaty did not actually preclude that.​ 


P F Tinmore said:


> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I've read Para's 50 - thru - 55 of the *Home • Numéros 21 • Articles: Genesis of Citizenship in Palesti*...
And again → that still applied to:  "inhabitants of mandated territories," ie The Government Administered by the UK.
And once again it applies to "nationality" relative to the territory subject to the Mandate.

Remember, the Memorandum → *The Legal Meaning of → "The Termination of the Mandate"*

 After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity 
but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately 
self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, 
however, have changed.​




_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Sixties Fan

One side comes across as tolerant and liberal. The other is intolerant and antisemitic.

The international community is solidly on the side of the antisemite.

Egypt condemned Jews visiting the Temple Mount. So did the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. So did Turkey and Jordan.

The EU tweeted, "Concerned over ongoing tensions around the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount. Acts of incitement have to be avoided and the status quo respected. Israeli authorities, religious, and community leaders from all sides should act urgently to calm down this explosive situation."

When they say "status quo" they mean Jews shouldn't be allowed to visit their most sacred place. The US has said similar things.

Which means that antisemitism is the official policy of most of the world, and Israel defending the human rights of Jews is twisted into saying Israeli Jews are the bigots.

(full article online)









						Mahmoud Abbas condemns Jewish right to worship. The international community pretty much agrees with this antisemitism.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorists believe they have a method to use their donated welfare money to pay their killers.











						PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right” | PMW Analysis
					

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments




					www.palwatch.org
				




PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right”
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 19, 2021
Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments. Inaugurating the new system, which uses specifically designated ATM cards and machines, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, explained why the PA will never stop paying the terror rewards to prisoners and their families: Because it’s “their right.”  

At a press conference launching the new system, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr explained:


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> National of a State ≠ Habitual inhabitants of the Territory under the Mandate for Palestine.


The Mandate was a temporarily appointed administration It was not a place, It had no territory, borders, or sovereignty. It had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic terrorists believe they have a method to use their donated welfare money to pay their killers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right”
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 19, 2021
> Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments. Inaugurating the new system, which uses specifically designated ATM cards and machines, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, explained why the PA will never stop paying the terror rewards to prisoners and their families: Because it’s “their right.”
> 
> At a press conference launching the new system, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr explained:


All that name calling. PMW must be an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> * the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*."


Are the "parties concerned" the foreigners or the citizens?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments. Inaugurating the new system, which uses specifically designated ATM cards and machines, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, explained why the PA will never stop paying the terror rewards to prisoners and their families: Because it’s “their right.”  

At a press conference launching the new system, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr explained:















(full article online)









						PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right” | PMW Analysis
					

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> All that name calling. PMW must be an Israeli propaganda organization.


All that sidestepping accomplishes what? 

The details are that rewards for islamic killers, payments for acts of Islamic terrorism are normalized by the Pally government. The details are such that the Pallys take extraordinary measures to divert welfare money to pay those killers. 

In the relevant first world, paying someone to commit a crime is itself a crime, except in the alternate reality of Pal-Arabism. 

You wish to excuse islamic terrorism and criminal acts with your cut and paste "name calling" slogan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Are the "parties concerned" the foreigners or the citizens?


When were subjects of the Ottoman Empire "citizens" of Pal'istan?

You do know that the Ottoman Turks never established any unique, administrative district of Pal'istan, right?

Your need to invent some imagined "Magical Kingdom of Pal'istan", ignores the fact that no such place ever existed.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Miscellaneous
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I think you need a second reading.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate was a temporarily appointed administration It was not a place, It had no territory, borders, or sovereignty. It had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Well I did not contradict your thought here.  I'll expand the symbol.  It means "not equal to."

National of a State ≠ Habitual inhabitants of the Territory.  The legal status of "Palestine" was a *"legal entity."*



P F Tinmore said:


> Are the "parties concerned" the foreigners or the citizens?


*(COMMENT)*

Well, think about it.

(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force; (*Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties*)

The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other.  These are the "parties" to the treaty.

*ANSWER*:  So, yes_*!*_  I guess they all represent "foreign" powers.





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

For anyone not familiar with the Tamimi crime family, it was a member of that family who was arrested, tried and jailed for her part in the Sbarro pizzeria bombing.

I have alway hoped that the US would dispatch one of our SOCOM teams to Jordan and pull her off the streets to face infidel justice.





At his meeting with Jordanian King Abdullah II next Monday, President Joe Biden must demand the extradition of a most wanted terrorist, Ahlam Tamimi.

Tamimi was behind the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria bombing in Jerusalem, Israel. That terrorist attack killed 15 civilians, including two Americans, and injured approximately 122 others, including four Americans. In 2017, the United States unsealed its indictment of Tamimi. The government has offered a $5 million reward for information leading to her apprehension or conviction.









						Biden must push Jordan to extradite wanted terrorist
					

At his meeting with Jordanian King Abdullah II next Monday, President Joe Biden must demand the extradition of a most wanted terrorist, Ahlam Tamimi.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority arrested a Palestinian singer for performing in an Israeli park in Samaria.

The Jerusalem Post reported on Monday that the musician, whose name has not been disclosed, performed at a party for Palestinian employees at an Israeli factory in the Ariel Industrial Zone.

A source told the Jerusalem Post that the party was organized by the factory’s owners, but was not attended by any of the Jewish employees. The report didn’t indicate when the party was held, when the singer was detained, or the name of the factory. But the singer was said to be from the nearby Palestinian village of Kafr ad-Dik.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority Arrests Singer for ‘Crime’ of Performing in Israeli City | United with Israel
					

A PA politician accused the Palestinian singer of performing in front of 'settlers and prostitutes' in response to a concert attended by Arabs in the Israeli city of Ariel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nearly 100,000 Muslims arrived Tuesday morning at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to pray at Al Aqsa Mosque.

Tuesday marks the first day of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha.

Some of the worshipers chanted calls against Israel, adding, "We will sacrifice our lives for the sake of Al Aqsa."

(full article online)









						100,000 Muslims promise to give their lives for Al Aqsa
					

Muslims arriving at Temple Mount to mark Eid al-Adha chant anti-Israel slogans, promise to 'sacrifice their lives' for Al Aqsa Mosque.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate was a temporarily appointed administration It was not a place, It had no territory, borders, or sovereignty. It had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine.


The British Mandate for Palestine "had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine."

Now that's pretty darn funny.


----------



## Sixties Fan

As I have previously reported, Arabs sold two properties to Jews in the past few weeks.

Now one of the sellers is in danger.

Palestinian Media Watchreports:




> The PA has publicly exposed, shamed, and literally endangered the life of an Arab who sold land to Jews in Jerusalem. According to the PA, Palestinians who sell land to Jews are considered “traitors” and criminals. In fact, the PA has forbidden selling land to Jews by law. Anyone who tries to sell land to Jews will be sentenced to 5 years of hard labor, and someone who actually sells land to Jews will be sentenced to life in prison with hard labor, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.





It isn't only Fatah. Atout's picture and condemnation of him is all over Palestinian media.

Here's video of his family leaving their home.

And his photo is all over the place.

The point is clear: if you find Atout, take justice into your own hands.

Needless to say, no one ever says that the prohibition of selling land to Jews is pure antisemitism. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian media trying to get people to lynch man who sold his house to Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com
				












						Fatah publicly exposed, shamed and endangered an Arab “traitor” who sold land to Jews in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis
					

Seller’s picture was broadcast on Fatah’s TV station: “because these images and this information are important for our people, so that they will see this traitor.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Those who have been pitching the “new and improved” Ra’am Party to the Israeli public as a moderate faction promoting a civil agenda, now that it is a member of Israel's governing coalition for the first time in Israel's history, had something of a rude awakening on Sunday, courtesy of the “old” Islamist Ra’am.

Its warning against “settlers and MKs violating the Al-Aqsa mosque” was taken right out of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar’s playbook. Similar statements were made by the Gaza-based terrorist group as part of its ultimatums to Israel prior to the 11 days of fighting that erupted in May.

Its statement, echoed by the Southern Branch of the Islamic Movement from which it hails, adopted the menacing terminology used by Hamas with regard to the Temple Mount.

(full article online)









						Ra’am party shows its true colors
					

The Islamist party is trying to have it both ways by working to better Israeli Arabs’ lives while also embracing Hamas-style radicalism.Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

A ''doctor' from the islamic University of Gaza.

Nuff' said. 











						Dr. Ziyad Miqdad, Head Of Fatwa Committee At The Islamic University Of Gaza: Like A Father Beats His Son, Or A Mother Her Daughter, Wife-Beating Should Be Therapeutic, Not Vindictive
					

Dr. Ziyad Miqdad, head of the Fatwa Committee in the Islamic University of Gaza said that when a husband beats his wife,...




					www.memri.org
				




*Dr. Ziyad Miqdad, Head Of Fatwa Committee At The Islamic University Of Gaza: Like A Father Beats His Son, Or A Mother Her Daughter, Wife-Beating Should Be Therapeutic, Not Vindictive*​


----------



## Hollie

With the Middle East just slightly less volatile, the Pallys are in a major snit that the UAE has opened an embassy in Israel. 













						Palestinians slam opening of UAE embassy in Israel
					

‘A black and sad day,’ says senior PLO official




					www.jpost.com
				




Several Palestinian factions on Wednesday condemned the opening of the first United Arab Emirates embassy in Tel Aviv and called for an end to Arab normalization with Israel.

The Palestinian Authority and its ruling Fatah faction, however, did not comment (by Wednesday night) on the UAE move.


----------



## Hollie

Oops. Someone is going to be on the business end of a fatwa. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




Fatah publicly exposed, shamed and endangered an Arab “traitor” who sold land to Jews in Jerusalem
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 20, 2021
Seller’s picture was broadcast on Fatah’s TV station: “because these images and this information are important for our people, so that they will see this traitor.”


The PA has publicly exposed, shamed, and literally endangered the life of an Arab who sold land to Jews in Jerusalem. According to the PA, Palestinians who sell land to Jews are considered “traitors” and criminals. In fact, the PA has forbidden selling land to Jews by law. Anyone who tries to sell land to Jews will be sentenced to 5 years of hard labor, and someone who actually sells land to Jews will be sentenced to life in prison with hard labor, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A fundamental policy of the PA is to disseminate libels and lies that demonize Israelis and Jews, in order to entrench hatred. For years, the PA has been accusing Israel of not giving sick terrorist prisoners proper treatment and has even accused Israel of using them for Nazi -like medical experiments. This week the PA fine-tuned its libel: Israel they say uses unqualified Russian immigrant doctors who did not pass the "The Israeli Medical Association” qualification tests as doctors for terrorist prisoners.

The following is the libel disseminated by Amjad al-Najjar, director of the Palestinian Prisoner Club in the Hebron District:













(full article online)









						New PA libel: Israel uses unqualified Russian doctors to treat Palestinian prisoners | PMW Analysis
					

A fundamental policy of the PA is to disseminate libels and lies that demonize Israelis and Jews, in order to entrench hatred




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Very possible that the Iranian Mullocrats ordered their occupation army of Hizzbolah to assist their flunkies in Hamas with rocket fire at Israel.

The Mullocrats may want to see the response from Naftali Bennett to gauge his willingness to strike in Lebanon. 













						IDF shells Lebanon after two rockets fired at northern Israel
					

One rocket shot down, second hits open area, no damage or injuries reported; Palestinian group believed behind attack, which comes after reported Israeli strike in north Syria




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*IDF shells Lebanon after two rockets fired at northern Israel*​*One rocket shot down, second hits open area, no damage or injuries reported; Palestinian group believed behind attack, which comes after reported Israeli strike in north Syria*​


----------



## Hollie

It will be interesting to see if corporations take measures to protect their brand.











						Following PMW’s warning letter, BPC demands answers of PA Monetary Authority | PMW Analysis
					

PMW is pleased to report that the BPC Group responded immediately that “BPC Group has zero tolerance against terror,” and that they immediately sent PMW’s report to the Palestine Monetary Authority demanding an answer




					www.palwatch.org
				




Following PMW’s warning letter, BPC demands answers of PA Monetary Authority
Itamar Marcus  | Jul 22, 2021
On Teusday PMW wrote to VISA/VISA PLUS and BPC Banking Technologies, alerting them that the Palestinian Authority may be using their technology to facilitate its “Pay-for-Slay” terror reward program, which PMW has been exposing and fighting for years.

PMW is pleased to report that the BPC Group responded immediately that “BPC Group has zero tolerance against terror,” and that they immediately sent PMW’s report to the Palestine Monetary Authority demanding an answer. BPC gave them one week to respond.

PMW welcomes the response from BPC and hopes to receive a similar response from VISA/VISA PLUS.

The following is the full response from BPC:

“Thank you for your email.
BPC Group has zero tolerance against terror.

BPC Legal unit already contacted our client, Palestine Monetary Authority, and requested to officially clarify information provided by your reputable organization.

We will inform you at the soonest once we have a substantial feedback from the client after July 26th.

Sincerely yours,
BPC Group”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza Fights For Freedom (2019) | Full Documentary | Directed by Abby Martin​


----------



## Hollie

Strange. We were advised that Pally terrorists don't stage attacks outside of their terrorist enclave. 













						Munich 1972: Looking back at Olympic terrorist attack
					

The events happened on live television with the hostage situation lasting 20 hours.




					www.wftv.com
				




During Friday’s opening ceremony at the delayed 2020 Tokyo Olympics, a moment of remembrance was held for the 11 victims of a terrorist attack during the Munich Olympics in 1972.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Strange. We were advised that Pally terrorists don't stage attacks outside of their terrorist enclave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Munich 1972: Looking back at Olympic terrorist attack
> 
> 
> The events happened on live television with the hostage situation lasting 20 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wftv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During Friday’s opening ceremony at the delayed 2020 Tokyo Olympics, a moment of remembrance was held for the 11 victims of a terrorist attack during the Munich Olympics in 1972.


You had to go back 50 years to find one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You had to go back 50 years to find one.


You perpetrated a fraud.

What is the time limit for forgiving and forgetting acts of Islamic terrorism?


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Tuesday PMW wrote to VISA/VISA PLUS and BPC Banking Technologies, alerting them that the Palestinian Authority may be using their technology to facilitate its “Pay-for-Slay” terror reward program, which PMW has been exposing and fighting for years.

PMW is pleased to report that the BPC Group responded immediately that “BPC Group has zero tolerance against terror,” and that they immediately sent PMW’s report to the Palestine Monetary Authority demanding an answer. BPC gave them one week to respond.

PMW welcomes the response from BPC and hopes to receive a similar response from VISA/VISA PLUS.

The following is the full response from BPC:

(full article online)









						Following PMW’s warning letter, BPC demands answers of PA Monetary Authority | PMW Analysis
					

PMW is pleased to report that the BPC Group responded immediately that “BPC Group has zero tolerance against terror,” and that they immediately sent PMW’s report to the Palestine Monetary Authority demanding an answer




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian factions and human rights organizations have called on Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups to stop  storing weapons in residential areas following another explosion, which killed one person and injured 14 others on Thursday.

They also demanded a thorough investigation into the explosion in order to hold those responsible accountable.

Palestinians in the Gaza Strip said that the explosion took place in a warehouse used by Hamas for storing weapons.

(full article online)









						Palestinians accuse Hamas of storing weapons in residential areas
					

Palestinians in the Gaza Strip said that the explosion that killed 1 and injured 14 on Thursday took place in a warehouse used by Hamas for storing weapons.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

With Israel establishing ties with Arab Middle Eastern nations and now African and North African nations, the Pal Islamic terrorist franchises are seeing the inertia of history making them even less relevant. 











						Hamas, Islamic Jihad condemn Israel’s African Union observer status
					

After the announcement that Israel would rejoin the African Union as a member with observer status, the terror groups spoke out and demanded the immediate expulsion of Israel from the union.




					m.jpost.com
				




After the announcement that Israel would rejoin the African Union as a member with observer status, the terror groups spoke out and demanded the immediate expulsion of Israel from the union.

Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad on Saturday strongly condemned the decision to grant Israel observer status at the African Union after a two-decade absence.

On Thursday, the Foreign Ministry announced that Israel is returning to the union as a member with an observer status. Israel’s ambassador to Ethiopia, Aleligne Adamsu, submitted Israel’s charter to the 55-nation pan-African body, according to a ministry statement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With Israel establishing ties with Arab Middle Eastern nations and now African and North African nations, the Pal Islamic terrorist franchises are seeing the inertia of history making them even less relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad condemn Israel’s African Union observer status
> 
> 
> After the announcement that Israel would rejoin the African Union as a member with observer status, the terror groups spoke out and demanded the immediate expulsion of Israel from the union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After the announcement that Israel would rejoin the African Union as a member with observer status, the terror groups spoke out and demanded the immediate expulsion of Israel from the union.
> 
> Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad on Saturday strongly condemned the decision to grant Israel observer status at the African Union after a two-decade absence.
> 
> On Thursday, the Foreign Ministry announced that Israel is returning to the union as a member with an observer status. Israel’s ambassador to Ethiopia, Aleligne Adamsu, submitted Israel’s charter to the 55-nation pan-African body, according to a ministry statement.


What difference does it make that Israel makes pacts with local dictators and despots?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What difference does it make that Israel makes pacts with local dictators and despots?


What dictators and despots?

Are you referring to the dictators and despots of Hamas and Fatah?


----------



## Hollie

If the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war were to go “full Islam” and return to those earlier days of street killings and kidnapping / torture, that would end a long term Hudna between the Islamic terrorist tribes. However, it seems both tribes are going to share an uneasy cessation of hostilities between them as long as the welfare money keeps rolling in. 






__





						Palestinian political chaos prevents the potential for peace
					





					www.msn.com
				





The Palestinian political structure is in chaos. And it might soon get even worse. 

Fatah, the political movement that dominates the Palestinian Authority, rules those parts of the West Bank, known by some Israelis as Judea and Samaria, where the majority of Palestinians live. Fatah’s rival, the terrorist organization Hamas, has controlled the Gaza Strip since a 2007 civil war between the two factions. Neither Hamas nor Fatah has held elections since then. But Hamas also wants the West Bank for itself. This would uproot American and Israeli policies. It is hard, after all, to see Israel negotiating with a terrorist group that testifies to an ordained blood lust for Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a rare rebuke, Palestinians and human rights organizations called on Hamas and other Gaza terror groups to stop storing weapons in civilian areas.

The criticism was in response to an explosion at a Gaza City market on Thursday that killed one and injured 14. Six of the injured were children. A number of homes and shops were damaged.

Local Palestinians told the Jerusalem Post that the blast occurred in a known Hamas warehouse used to store unspecified weapons. Eyewitnesses quoted by the Jerusalem Post said a fire broke out in an adjacent building before the explosion.

(full article online)









						Palestinians to Hamas: ‘Stop Using Us as Human Shields!’ | United with Israel
					

After a deadly explosion at a Gaza City market on Thursday, Palestinians demanded that Gaza terror groups to stop storing weapons in civilian areas.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What difference does it make that Israel makes pacts with local dictators and despots?




Well, let’s see. Dictators and despots might be defined as authoritarian, sometimes religious authoritarian rulers who stay in power through the imposition of fear and intimidation, do not allow for elections and tend to run corrupt, self-serving interests.

Your Islamic terrorist heroes seem to be the poster children for dictators and despots.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Well, let’s see. Dictators and despots might be defined as authoritarian, sometimes religious authoritarian rulers who stay in power through the imposition of fear and intimidation, do not allow for elections and tend to run corrupt, self-serving interests.


Not to mention US money and weapons.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Not to mention US money and weapons.


Not to mention your conspiracy theories .


----------



## P F Tinmore

Families in Gaza return to their destroyed homes​


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Families in Gaza return to their destroyed homes​



Hamas rockets falling short again?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Families in Gaza return to their destroyed homes​


Houses were martyred.


----------



## Hollie

The balloon gee-had continues. The Islamic terrorist facility that was martyred in the Israeli response was near civilian sites in Gaza, including a school. 









__





						Yahoo Search - Web Search
					

The search engine that helps you find exactly what you\'re looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.




					in.news.yahoo.com
				




Tel Aviv [Israel], July 26 (ANI): Israel has targeted Palestinian military sites in the Gaza Strip in response to the Sunday launches of incendiary balloons.

Israeli Air Force launched attacks in the Khan Yunis area in the southern Gaza Strip.

"In response to arson balloons launched toward Israel, we struck a Hamas military base containing infrastructure and means used for terror activity. The base was near civilian sites in Gaza, including a school. We will continue to respond to any terror attempts from Gaza," the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) tweeted.

Several incendiary balloons were launched into southern Israel from the Gaza Strip on Sunday, The Times of Israel reported.


----------



## Hollie

Yet another example of the cradle to grave indoctrination that takes place in the Cult of the Pally Sociopath.​​​PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance​Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
_






Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls

The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
*Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).

Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Yet another example of the cradle to grave indoctrination that takes place in the Cult of the Pally Sociopath.​​​PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance​Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
> 
> The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
> *Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).
> 
> Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*



Who's the gay Egyptian dude on the mural?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel has refused to allow major reconstruction of the Gaza Strip beyond what Defense Minister Benny Gantz has described as “basic humanitarian aid” levels unless Hamas returns Israeli civilians Avera Mengistu and Hisham al-Sayed and the remains of two IDF soldiers — Oron Shaul and Hadar Goldin — who have been held captive by the terror group in the Strip.

“The Hamas terror group in Gaza needs to understand: We are determined. If Hamas wants reconstruction and economic development, the time has come that it takes concrete steps to maintain the calm, to halt the rearmament and to return the boys home,” Gantz said last month.

(full article online)









						Message in a balloon: Hamas threatens violence unless Israel allows Qatari aid
					

Amid now-resolved dispute over delayed entrance of Doha-purchased fuel into Gaza, terror group gives apparent approval for arson attacks along the border




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Who's the gay Egyptian dude on the mural?


He's the dude who stole ruthlessly from the Pals and amassed a personal fortune at their expense. He set the islamic terrorist standard for fraud, theft and corruption. That's why he's a hero to the Pals


----------



## Hollie

__





						Solidarity with ‘Palestine’ Means Kalashnikovs for Kids
					





					www.msn.com
				




All the academics who sign statements of solidarity with “Palestine” claim to have done so out of a deep respect for human rights. Their advocacy for Palestinians and refusal to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist received a great deal of attention in June, but their silence regarding the villains who train, equip, and brainwash Palestinian children into becoming child warriors has gone mostly unnoticed for many years. Since these academics don’t seem to care about the human rights of Israelis, they should consider what role they play in denying the rights of Palestinian children.




Don't think of the children in the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth as children, think of them as a commodity.


----------



## Hollie

It couldn't be clearer that funding Islamic terrorism causes the terrorism to continue. 













						Biden’s funding to the Palestinian Authority only hurts the cause of peace
					

The Palestinian Authority is proud to fund its terrorists, and President Joe Biden is proud to fund the Palestinian Authority by end-running the Taylor Force Act.




					nypost.com
				




The Palestinian Authority is proud to fund its terrorists, and President Joe Biden is proud to fund the Palestinian Authority by end-running the Taylor Force Act.

Named for an American killed in a 2016 terror attack in Tel Aviv, the bipartisan law (a vote of 256-167 in the House and 65-32 in the Senate) denies taxpayer funding to the PA until it stops paying hefty stipends to imprisoned or released terrorists and the families of deceased terrorists — whom the PA deems “martyrs.”

The PA spends more than $350 million a year on these “Pay for Slay” rewards, vs. just $220 million for all its other welfare programs combined. Since independent activists have recently made it near-impossible to use normal banks for the checks, it just created a new ATM-card system specifically to keep the funds flowing to some 12,200 terrorists and their survivors.


----------



## Sixties Fan

How else to understand why so many “Palestinians” living in Gaza ruled by Hamas and in the “West Bank” (Palestine Authority) ruled by Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas) live in “Palestinian _refugee_ camps”?



If those Arab Muslims truly are a “Palestinian” nation, and if “Palestine” and the “Occupied Palestinian Territories” truly are the regions of Gaza, Judea, and Samaria — then why and how can those Arabs living there call themselves “refugees” and demand — and receive — billions in international handouts from the United Nations, the European Union, and even the United States through agencies like the UNRWA as though living displaced from their own land? “Refugees” residing in _their own land_?



-Rafah "Refugee" Camp has 125,000 residents in Gaza.

-Khan Yunis "Refugee" Camp has another 87,816 there.

-Nuseirat "Refugee" Camp has another 80,000 there.

-Balata "Refugee" Camp has 27,000 in the “West Bank.”

-Shu’fat "Refugee" Camp has 24,000 there.

-Askar "Refugee" Camp has 18,500 there.



In all, the Gaza Strip has eight official refugee camps and 1,221,110 registered refugees. The “West Bank” has 19 official and four unofficial refugee camps, and 741,409 registered refugees.



That makes two million “Palestinian refugees” in “Palestinian refugee camps” all living under “Palestinian” rule in supposed “Palestine,” with Hamas sovereign in Gaza and Abbas’s Fatah reigning in the “West Bank” Palestine Authority.

(full article online)









						The myth of "Occupied Palestinian Territories" -- Part 2 of 2
					

There are 2 million “Palestinian refugees” in “Palestinian refugee camps” all living under “Palestinian” sovereignty in supposed “Palestine,” with Hamas sovereign in Gaza and Abbas’s Fatah reigning in the “West Bank” PA. Why are they refugees?.Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Does Hamas want to be paid to administer the vaccine?)


Al Jazeera reports:




> More than five months since the arrival of the first batch of COVID-19 jabs in the Gaza Strip, the vaccine rollout in the besieged coastal enclave has been met with general distrust and, in many cases, outright refusal.
> 
> According to data from Gaza’s health ministry, some 98,000 people – or just less than five percent of the two million population – have so far received a shot.
> 
> Some 336,300 vaccine doses have also been donated from various countries, including Russia and the United Arab Emirates, as well as through the global COVAX programme.



So there are at least 140,000 doses in Gaza that are sitting, unused, if all the people who are inoculated received two doses.

For months we were reading articles and op-eds about how terrible it was that Israel wasn't providing vaccines to Gaza - and yet Gazans never wanted the vaccine to begin with.

The article goes on to blame Israel, of course, claiming that Gaza's medical establishment is crippled because of the "siege" (Israel doesn't block medical supplies, but the PA does) or from facilities that were damaged during the war because Hamas placed military equipment nearby. None of that has to do with the fact that Gazans don't want the vaccine, and the ICRC is working to educated Gazans that the shots aren't harmful.

So what happened to all those people who were oh-so-concerned over the lives of Gazans at risk for getting COVID? 

They aren't saying a word. 

(full article online)









						Most COVID-19 vaccines in Gaza are sitting unused. People who screamed at Israel about the health crisis are suddenly silent.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

They also hurt other passengers, including Sofi Chiser and Anna Shneider. Their families, represented by Shurat HaDin (Israel Law Center), initiated legal proceedings against the PLO to obtain damages 21 years ago.

Hopefully, “this historic judgment... will deliver a measure of justice to these Jewish-American families,” Shurat HaDin founder Nitsana Darshan-Leitner said in a statement. “While everyone knows the infamous story of the murder of elderly New Yorker Leon Klinghoffer, who was killed by the PLO in cold blood, few people remember that there were other victims held hostage on the ship who were threatened with being shot merely because they were also Jews.”

“The defendants tried to argue that the PLO didn’t carry out the attack, only the PFLP,” she said. “But we were able to establish once and for all that the PFLP under Mohammad Abbas’s command perpetrated this heinous hijacking as a full terrorist operation coordinated with Arafat’s main PLO factions.”

“We are very proud of our legal effort and the message it sends – that we will never stop pursuing those who target Jews or perpetrate violence against our communities,” Darshan-Leitner said. “Never again means pursuing the terrorist organizations forever.”










						Court: PLO must pay ship hijacking victims nearly NIS 1m.
					

The Jerusalem District Court on Sunday ruled that the Palestine Liberation Organization must pay nearly NIS one million to the estates of two Israeli victims of a 1985 ship hijacking.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The upside down world of the islamic terrorist. Lectures on ''moral values'' from a Pal Authority sociopath.​​​​Ice cream is out, rewarding murderers of Jews is in​Maurice Hirsch  | Jul 28, 2021








						Ice cream is out, rewarding murderers of Jews is in | PMW Analysis
					

Praising the decision of Ben and Jerry’s to halt ice cream sales in the area the company referred to as “occupied Palestinian territory,” PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh said the move was “testament that moral values should always prevail.”




					palwatch.org
				




Praising the decision of Ben and Jerry’s to halt ice cream sales in the area the company referred to as “occupied Palestinian territory,” PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh said the move was “testament that moral values should always prevail.”




When commenting how “moral values” should always prevail, Shtayyeh obviously missed the fact that the body he controls – the Palestinian Authority – literally spends hundreds of millions of shekels/dollars every year paying cash rewards to terrorists, including murderers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Al Qassam Brigades of Hamas loves to celebrate anniversaries of major terror attacks.  The infamous Sbarro massacre, which happened on August 9, 2001, is no exception.   Today is the Hebrew date anniversary of that attack.

It proves the utter depravity of not only Hamas but of all the Palestinians who celebrated at the time.

The ghoulish article exaggerates the death toll in order to make it sound even more "successful" than it was, claiming that 19 were killed. The facts are horrific enough - 15 murdered, including 7 children and a pregnant woman.

The Arabic text is revolting:



> It caused an unprecedented state of terror and chaos among the Jews.
> -....The operation is commensurate with the ability of the battalions to plan, develop and reach the depth of the enemy and in the most secure places, which astonished the enemy and made loved ones and family rejoice (and heal the hearts of a believing people).
> ...The mujahadeen chose the prime time for lunch at the restaurant.



Hamas freely admits that it targets Jews - not Israelis, not Zionists, but Jews. 

In a separate article celebrating the "martyrdom" of the suicide bomber, Hamas describes the happiness of the Palestinians who heard about the attack. "Jenin received the news with demonstrations and rallies that came out to bless this qualitative process that gladdened the hearts of a believing people."

Interestingly, the article did not mention Ahlam Tamimi, the 20-year old monster who chose that restaurant as the target and who accompanied the suicide bomber while disguised as a Jewish woman.

Her description of going on an Arab bus as she escaped the scene is perverted and sickening:


> Afterwards, when I took the bus, the Palestinians around Damascus Gate [in Jerusalem] were all smiling. You could sense that everybody was happy. When I got on the bus, nobody knew that it was me who had led [the suicide bomber to the target]... I was feeling quite strange, because I had left [the bomber] 'Izz Al-Din behind, but inside the bus, they were all congratulating one another. They didn't even know one another, yet they were exchanging greetings...While I was sitting on the bus, the driver turned on the radio. But first, let me tell you about the gradual rise in the number of casualties. While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another....I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said "three dead," I said: 'Allah be praised'...Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn't. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.




(full article online)









						Hamas brags of killing Jewish children 20 years ago at the Sbarro pizza shop
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult U. had a class trip. 



PA University students visit family of “heroic” murderer of Israeli teen
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 29, 2021









						PA University students visit family of “heroic” murderer of Israeli teen | PMW Analysis
					

A student faction at a PA university arranged a visit to honor the family of imprisoned terrorist Muntasir Shalabi who shot and murdered a 19-year-old Israeli student and wounded two other young students




					www.palwatch.org
				




Murder of Israeli teen was “heroic operation”

“National duty” of students to participate in visit to murderer’s family
A student faction at a PA university arranged a visit to honor the family of imprisoned terrorist Muntasir Shalabi who shot and murdered 19-year-old Israeli student Yehuda Gueta and wounded two other young students – Benaya Peretz and Amichai Hala – in a drive-by shooting attack near Ariel on May 2, 2021.


----------



## Hollie

I would hope this could be a first step toward ending all welfare payments to a phony "refugee" agency. 











						Blackburn, Risch, Colleagues Introduce UNRWA Accountability and Transparency Act
					





					www.blackburn.senate.gov
				




WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senators Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) and Jim Risch (R-Idaho), ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, led their colleagues in introducing the United Nations Relief and Works Agency Accountability and Transparency Act. This legislation outlines a comprehensive approach to cease U.S. contributions to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), a successor entity, or to the U.N. regular budget for the support of UNRWA unless the Secretary of State certifies every 180 days to Congress that UNRWA meets strict accountability and transparency criteria.


----------



## Hollie

Israeli Tourists Greeted By Traditional Musicians As The First Israeli Plane Lands In Marrakesh, Morocco
					

The first Israeli airplane to land in Marrakesh, Morocco was greeted by a band playing traditional Moroccan music. In a ...




					www.memri.org
				




Israeli Tourists Greeted By Traditional Musicians As The First Israeli Plane Lands In Marrakesh, Morocco​#8995 | 02:15
*Source:* The Internet - "Hespress (Morocco)"
_The first Israeli airplane to land in Marrakesh, Morocco was greeted by a band playing traditional Moroccan music. In a report posted on Hespress on YouTube on July 25, 2021, a woman at the airport said that Moroccans have been waiting a long time for this, and they had hoped for and wanted this relationship. She thanked everyone who "took part in this step (towards) peace." She further said that the King of Morocco strives "to gather all his Moroccan children together." She said: "May Allah bless you. This is your country. Welcome, my brothers and sisters." An Israeli passenger said that this is a good thing that will support tourism between Israel and Morocco._


----------



## Hollie

Hamas Threatens Renewed Violence If Qatari Money Not Immediately Transferred
					

Hamas leadership as a festival marking the group’s 31st anniversary. Photo: Hamas. i24 News – Palestinian terrorist factions in Gaza …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Hamas Threatens Renewed Violence If Qatari Money Not Immediately Transferred​





Hamas leadership as a festival marking the group’s 31st anniversary. Photo: Hamas.
_i24 News_ – Palestinian terrorist factions in Gaza threatened to escalate violence again, and could even fire rockets at the Jewish state, if Jerusalem continues to impose conditions on the transfer of Qatari redevelopment money and the full opening of border crossings, according to the Hamas-affiliated Lebanese newspaper _Al-Akhbar_.






Translation - Hamas:  "We'll be just fine sacrificing disposable Pallys in an Israeli response to our rocket fire because foreign welfare money maintains our wealth.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A student faction at a PA university arranged a visit to honor the family of imprisoned terrorist Muntasir Shalabi who shot and murdered 19-year-old Israeli student Yehuda Gueta and wounded two other young students – Benaya Peretz and Amichai Hala – in a drive-by shooting attack near Ariel on May 2, 2021. 






On the registration form provided via a link to a Google Docs document, the Islamic Faction at Birzeit University urged students to fulfill their “national duty” and participate in the visit to the family of “the heroic prisoner who carried out the heroic operation” – i.e., the murder of one Israeli and wounding of two:

“A visit to the family of prisoner Muntasir Shalabi

Gathering at 3:30 p.m. next to the eastern gate (the computer college gate) 

The Islamic Faction at Birzeit University invites you to participate in a visit to the family of *the heroic prisoner who carried out the heroic operation* (i.e., terror attack) of Zatara – Muntasir Shalabi

On Wednesday, July 14 [2021]

Your presence is a national duty”

[Twitter account of the Pulse of the Students of Palestine
in the Occupied West Bank, July 13, 2021]​
That Palestinian students arrange a visit to the family of a murderer – a “heroic prisoner” in their terminology - is not surprising because as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, the PA has taught Palestinians – including children - for decades that murderers of Israelis are admirable “heroes” and role models. The students of the Islamic Faction at Birzeit University are merely doing as they have been taught since childhood by the PA.

PMW has documented that military processions take place at Birzeit University - “the university of the Martyrs” - where masked students wearing military uniforms march, holding posters of terrorists. 

(full article online)









						PA University students visit family of “heroic” murderer of Israeli teen | PMW Analysis
					

A student faction at a PA university arranged a visit to honor the family of imprisoned terrorist Muntasir Shalabi who shot and murdered a 19-year-old Israeli student and wounded two other young students




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

The Myth of ‘Occupied Palestinian Territories’: Part One

There never was an “Arab Palestine.” It never existed as a polity.









						The Myth of ‘Occupied Palestinian Territories’: Part One - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics
					

A simple question: If someone murders you and seizes your home, do your kids have a right to take it back?...




					spectator.org
				




There never was an “Arab Palestine.” It never existed as a polity. What was its capital city? There was none. Name any king or sheikh or president or prime minister it had. There never was any. _Indeed that lack of any connection to the land is why the contemporary “Palestinians” call the region they want “the West Bank.”_ They call it that because, _after 5,781 years or so of human history, the Arab world never has had its own name for that region._

​Other Arab places have names: Tyre, Sidon, Damascus — all Biblical names like Jerusalem, Beit Lechem (Bethlehem), Shiloh, Be’er Sheva (Beersheba), Galil (Galilee), Natzrat (Nazareth), Yehudah (Judea), and Shomron (Samaria). To be sure, Jews and Christians have had a specific name for “the West Bank” for 3,000 years: _Yehudah v’Shomron_ (Judea and Samaria). Judea (_Yehudah_) is the southern part of the “West Bank,” and Samaria (_Shomron_) the northern. Those terms are all over the Bible, with more than 100 mentions just of “Samaria” in the _Tanakh_ (Jewish Bible) and the Christian Gospels. Just a few examples:


----------



## Hollie

A rare bit of integrity and common sense coming out of Washington. The US has been showering the Pals and UNRWA for decades resulting in incredibly rich Islamic terrrorists. UNRWA, the islamic terrorist funding program, is little more than a bloated bureaucracy  that has become a UN funded welfare agency, 












						Republican senator's hold on US funding to Palestinian territories remains in place
					

A spokesperson for Sen. Jim Risch said the hold will stay as long as the Palestinian Authority continues what has been called the "pay for slay" program, while senators have also introduced a bill opposing the Biden administration's funds for Palestinian refugees.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




A spokesperson for Sen. Jim Risch said the hold will stay as long as the Palestinian Authority continues what has been called the "pay for slay" program, while senators have also introduced a bill opposing the Biden administration's funds for Palestinian refugees.


----------



## Hollie

Report: NGOs Aiding Terrorists in the Gaza Strip
					

The NGOs have been helping Hamas claim that their dead terrorists were innocent civilians, or that civilians killed by Hamas were killed by Israel.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Non-governmental organizations, or NGOs, operating in the Gaza Strip have assisted Hamas and other terrorist groups in feigning that terrorists killed during fighting with Israel were really innocent civilians, according to a scathing new report from NGO-Monitor.

Some international NGOs have gone so far as to accuse the State of Israel of deliberately targeting civilians. According to NGO-Monitor, many of the “civilians” who Israel has been accused of killing in Gaza were actually terrorists. NGO-Monitor has examined how some of the NGOs did this during the May 2021 Gaza conflict and in earlier confrontations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Report: NGOs Aiding Terrorists in the Gaza Strip
> 
> 
> The NGOs have been helping Hamas claim that their dead terrorists were innocent civilians, or that civilians killed by Hamas were killed by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non-governmental organizations, or NGOs, operating in the Gaza Strip have assisted Hamas and other terrorist groups in feigning that terrorists killed during fighting with Israel were really innocent civilians, according to a scathing new report from NGO-Monitor.
> 
> Some international NGOs have gone so far as to accuse the State of Israel of deliberately targeting civilians. According to NGO-Monitor, many of the “civilians” who Israel has been accused of killing in Gaza were actually terrorists. NGO-Monitor has examined how some of the NGOs did this during the May 2021 Gaza conflict and in earlier confrontations.


Remember, NGO-Monitor is an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Remember, NGO-Monitor is an Israeli propaganda organization.


Indeed. Remember, you are an islamist propaganda outlet, which us why you can't refute the data presented.


----------



## Hollie

There seems to be a broader concensus among republicans that showering islamic terrorists with taxpayer cash is simply a horrible idea. 











						Congress must fix UNRWA’s Hamas problem
					

The House Appropriations Committee this month approved the annual foreign aid bill on a party-line vote. The proposal includes the Biden administration’s full request to provide at least $150 million, with no strings attached, to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency. The proposal is highly…




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




The House Appropriations Committee this month approved the annual foreign aid bill on a party-line vote. The proposal includes the Biden administration’s full request to provide at least $150 million, with no strings attached, to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency. The proposal is highly controversial, with scrutiny growing over the organization’s ties to terrorist entities in Gaza. As Senate appropriators eye their own markup, now is not the time for blank checks. Members of both parties should demand much-needed changes.


----------



## Hollie

With a new gaggle of disposable splodeydopes set to graduate from the Hamas gee-had summer camp, attacks aimed at Israeli citizens are more likely. 










						Hamas intensifies efforts to launch West Bank terror attacks — report
					

Kan news says key Gaza recruiter has contacted dozens in past few months to try and enlist them to carry out assaults




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





The Hamas terror group has intensified efforts to carry out West Bank terror attacks, with guidance from the Gaza Strip, Kan news reported Saturday in an unsourced report.

The TV network said Abdallah Arar, a Hamas man released from Israeli prison in the 2011 exchange for the release of abducted soldier Gilad Shalit, had contacted some 60 West Bank Palestinians over the past six months to try to recruit them to carry out attacks.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Remember in June when the Palestinian Authority broke a deal with Israel to accept Covid vaccines because, they claimed, the vaccines were too close to expiration? (Even though the PA says it has the infrastructure to give 50,000 doses a day, and therefore had plenty of time to use them all?)

Well, another month has come and gone, and the Palestinian Authority still didn't negotiate with Israel another deal to use the vaccines that would expire at the end of July.

As a result, according to Israeli media, Israel was forced to discard tens of thousands of doses of Pfizer vaccine, worth some 6 million shekels. 

These doses could have gone to Palestinians. And none of the organizations and individuals who were in the forefront of blaming Israel for the Palestinian vaccine shortage are saying a word of reproach to the PA. 

The excuse that the vaccines were close to expiration cannot be used, even though that was not an excuse to begin with. So Israel's critics are not saying a word, since it is clear that the Palestinian Authority doesn't really want the vaccines all that badly.

In fact, in Gaza, the health authorities are scrambling to use up the shots they have, with a population that doesn't want them. 

(full article online)









						Israel forced to discard tens of thousands of vaccines that the Palestinian Authority refused
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

As the welfare money rolls in to the Abbas mini-caliphate, the sociopaths who do the crimes at the dictator's urging are getting paid. 











						The PA’s extreme measures to reward terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

Last month, Palestinian Media Watch exposed that the Palestinian Authority had initiated a new system to pay its monthly terror salaries using ATM machines




					palwatch.org
				




The PA’s extreme measures to reward terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Aug 1, 2021

BPC Banking Technologies is *not involved* in payment of PA terror rewards​
Last month, Palestinian Media Watch exposed that the Palestinian Authority had initiated a new system to pay its monthly terror salaries using ATM machines. PMW found that a company called BPC Banking Technologies provided the technological infrastructure used by the PA to facilitate its banking system. Fearing that BPC was unaware of the PA’s illegitimate usage of its technologies, PMW contacted BPC. To its credit, BPC responded swiftly to PMW, updating that it had sent PMW’s report to the PA to “officially clarify” the situation.  Having received the requested clarification, BPC provided a comprehensive response to PMW. While clearing BPC of all involvement, active or passive, in the PA scheme, BPC’s response exposed the extent to which the PA is willing to go in order to continue is “Pay-for-Slay” terror reward policy.


----------



## Hollie

The former, current and future dictator of the Gaza mini-caliphate has been elected to a new term. He ran unopposed and was elected by party members via internal vote so the rigged election was little more than being reannointed as dictator-in-charge. 

It's interesting that Egypt banned him from Gaza so he will rule the mini-caliphate from Qatar and Turkey. 







__





						Ismail Haniya re-elected as leader of Palestinian group Hamas
					





					www.msn.com
				




Haniya, Hamas chief since 2017, re-elected for four-year term following an unopposed internal election by party members.

Haniya, Hamas chief since 2017, has controlled the group’s political activities in Gaza, the Israeli-occupied West Bank and the diaspora largely from outside Gaza, splitting his time between Turkey and Qatar for the past two years. He has not said whether he will return.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib Calls For Sense Of Urgency To Enact Massive Reforms In Banking Housing​


----------



## Hollie




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## Hollie

Left to their own devices, these fine folks will project their hate for themselves against each other. 











						Assassination attempt on Fatah leader in south Lebanon fails | Al Bawaba
					

Abd al-Sultan of Fatah came under fire from an assailant in the Mieh Mieh camp near Sidon.




					www.albawaba.com
				




An assassination attempt against a Fatah Movement official failed early Sunday morning in a south Lebanon Palestinian refugee camp, the state’s National News Agency reported.

The NNA said Abd al-Sultan had come under fire from an assailant in the Mieh Mieh camp, near Sidon, after he left his relative’s house. The shooting wounded Sultan’s brother in law in the hand and thigh, and he was taken to the Sidon Government Hospital for treatment.
It added that Sultan had also been wounded in recent clashes in the nearby Ain al-Hilweh camp, where he resides.

While the small Mieh Mieh camp is relatively calm compared to other urban slums, Ain al-Hilweh, Lebanon’s largest Palestinian camp, is often rocked by violence between rival Palestinian and Islamist factions.

Ain al-Hilweh is home to militant groups such as Jund al-Sham and Fatah al-Islam, considered terrorist organizations by the Lebanese government.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I pointed out last week that some photos of streets in Gaza attacked by Israel show a characteristic cave-in pattern that indicates that a terrorist tunnel underneath the busy streets collapsed after Israeli earth-penetrating bombs were dropped.






Pavers coat about 5-10 times as much as paving with asphalt does and take much more time. Why would Hamas spend this kind of money to repair roads?

Because the pavers are meant to protect the tunnels. Israel shot relatively small, burrowing bombs that went easily through the asphalt on the street and then exploded the tunnel foundations underneath. These pavers, which look to be about 4 inches deep, would force Israel to use more destructive bombs to get to the tunnels - bombs more likely to kill innocent Gazans.

These pavers look to be locally produced. Bricks can be produced the same way. Hamas could be repairing buildings and helping Gazans. Instead, it is spending a great deal of money to protect its terror infrastructure. 


(full article online)










						Hamas' top priority in Gaza- protect and repair the tunnels
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

After an explosion in Gaza City last month, the PA and Abbas’ Fatah Movement and others have criticized Hamas and other terror organizations in the Gaza Strip for their disregard for human life and use of civilians as human shields.

Fatah’s Awdah TV reported that human rights organizations as well as eyewitnesses had confirmed that the military wings of a number of factions in the Gaza Strip – i.e., terror organizations – had “placed bombs, explosives, and explosive materials near the homes of the civilians”:













(full article online)









						Hamas “oppresses life… [with] torture, murder, oppression" and uses civilians as human shields, say PA daily | PMW Analysis
					

Hamas is choosing popular markets as a secure place for its live ammunition storehouses, because the occupation forces (i.e., Israel) cannot blow up the markets” – Amad independent Palestinian news website




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Globalize Jew hatred.  Check.
Globalize attacks on Jews.  Check.
Perpetuate Jew Hatred and attacks on Jews.  Check.
Look for ways of taking away hatred of Jews from Islamic teachings. No.
Look for ways to end war on Israel.  No
Look for ways to make lives of Palestinians better. No.)
---------------------------------

A pro-Palestinian rally in Brooklyn on Saturday devolved into inflammatory rhetoric and calls for violence against not just Israelis, but Jews around the world.

Several hundred protesters marched under banners stating, “Globalize the intifada,” “Zionism is terrorism,” and “We will free Palestine within our lifetime.”

Demonstrators also chanted slogans such as “There is only one solution, intifada revolution,” “If we don’t get no justice, then they don’t get no peace,” “Mobilize the intifada,” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.”

(full article online)









						‘Globalize the Intifada’: Pro-Palestinian Activists Incite Terror on Streets of New York | United with Israel
					

Demonstrators called for a 'globalized intifada.' It's not difficult to imagine what that would look like.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. Maybe if we showered UNRWA, the islamic terrorist enabling network with boatloads of cash, they would change their position on supporting and enabling Pally islamic terrorism.

On the other hand, it seems that our history of showering UNRWA with boatloads of cash has incentivised their supporting and enabling of Pally islamic terrorists.


Decisions, decisions. 











						UNRWA-Paid Teachers Celebrate Deaths of Israelis, Support Terrorism
					

The report examined the online statements of UNRWA employees and teachers.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




More than 100 employees of a United Nations’ aid agency have posted content on social media that spreads hatred against Israel and Israelis, encourages anti-Semitism, and supports terrorism, a new report by the UN Watch shows.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), which runs schools and social services in the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Arab countries around Israel, is now facing calls to fire employees who use social media to celebrate attacks on Israelis and promote anti-Jewish hatred.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to Abu Ali Express on Telegram, the storeowner says that at least ten different people are seriously interested in the item. No word on whether or not some or all are Hamas “government” officials.

By the way, you have to love the contrast within the storeowner’s photos:




Gaza is not the monolithic place the haters and mainstream media love to portray. There are poor people in Gaza just like everywhere else. There are also filthy rich people and those in between. There is destruction wrought, thanks to Hamas and their policy of using civilian areas to attack Israel. But there are also luxurious places untouched.

(full article online)









						New in "Concentration Camp" Gaza: Gold-Plated Gucci iPhone
					

Have you ever fancied an iPhone 12 Pro Max made of 24 karat gold, with the Gucci logo on the back? Come to Gaza!




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

Gee. The Islamic terrorists representing the Hamas franchise are happy to take our kuffar dollars. 

They're such generous souls. 











						Hamas Official Musa Abu Marzouk: We Accept Any Aid Offered, Even From The Americans, But Iran Helps Hamas More Than Any Other Country, In Training, Weapons, And Expertise
					

Deputy chairman of Hamas abroad Musa Abu Marzouk said that "as a liberation" movement, Hamas accepts aid from any countr...




					www.memri.org
				




_Deputy chairman of Hamas abroad Musa Abu Marzouk said that "as a liberation" movement, Hamas accepts aid from any country that offers it, including the Americans, but Iran helps Hamas more than any other country. He made his remarks in an interview that aired on Hiwar TV (U.K.) on July 29, 2021. Abu Marzouk said that there is no limit to Iran’s aid for Hamas, and it includes military training, weapons, and know-how. He asked: "How can we not thank Iran for that?" For more information about Musa Abu Marzouk, see MEMRI TV clips Nos. 8851, 5818, 4492, and 1043._


----------



## Hollie

Good luck with any Pal islamic terrorists entering into a ''social contract''. Within the Pally dystopia are a half dozen warring tribes, all of whom see the UNRWA welfare scam as the pathway to personal fortunes. 











						Palestinian Journalist: The Palestinians Need A Social Contract To Uproot The Violence Which Is Entrenched In Their Society And In All Arab Societies
					

In a June 27, 2021 article in Al-Ayyam, Palestinian political analyst Akram 'Atallah discussed the violence which, he said, is entrenched in Palestinian society and Arab societies




					www.memri.org
				




_In a June 27, 2021 article in Al-Ayyam, Palestinian political analyst Akram 'Atallah discussed the violence which, he said, is entrenched in Palestinian society and Arab societies in general. He stated that, unlike other human societies, which curbed their violence when they adopted the model of the modern state and endorsed humane values that limit the use of force, especially by the authorities, Arab societies, including Palestinian society, failed to do so and remain steeped in violence. The Arabs, 'Attallah elaborates, adopted the modern state and its values only outwardly, while maintaining  their aggressive and tribal norms, to the extent that violence has become "a sacred culture." He called on the Palestinians to form a contract between the various components of their society, so as to curb the struggles and conflicts among them and contain the damage that has already been caused by the culture of violence.  _


----------



## Hollie

A bit of tension it seems between the angry Fatah and Hamas caliphate'ists. These fine folks could pick up where they left off at the end of their earlier Civil war and we could see some gee-had fun and games.​​​​Hamas “oppresses life… [with] torture, murder, oppression" and uses civilians as human shields, say PA daily​Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 2, 2021









						Hamas “oppresses life… [with] torture, murder, oppression" and uses civilians as human shields, say PA daily | PMW Analysis
					

Hamas is choosing popular markets as a secure place for its live ammunition storehouses, because the occupation forces (i.e., Israel) cannot blow up the markets” – Amad independent Palestinian news website




					palwatch.org
				




*“Hamas is choosing popular markets as a secure place for its live ammunition storehouses, because the occupation forces (i.e., Israel) cannot blow up the markets” – Amad independent Palestinian news website*​
*“[Hamas is] a militia that oppresses life… in its prisons through despicable torture… Murder, oppression, arbitrary arrests, violent break-ins to search in houses… storage of weapons among people’s homes” – official PA daily*​
After an explosion in Gaza City last month, the PA and Abbas’ Fatah Movement and others have criticized Hamas and other terror organizations in the Gaza Strip for their disregard for human life and use of civilians as human shields.


----------



## Hollie

One of the fine folks who works for UNRWA, the forever Pally islamic terrorist entitlement.













						Akram Ayoub, UNRWA Project Assistant, Celebrates Murderer - UN Watch
					

Akram Ayoub lists himself as a project assistant and storekeeper at UNRWA. His posts refer to Jews as animals and celebrate as a “hero” a Palestinian who murdered three other Palestinians for allegedly “collaborating” with Israel. In this post, UNRWA employee Akram Ayoub glorifies Palestinian...



					unwatch.org
				




Akram Ayoub, UNRWA Project Assistant, Celebrates Murderer​
August 2, _Facebook profile_
Akram Ayoub lists himself as a project assistant and storekeeper at UNRWA. His posts refer to Jews as animals and celebrate as a “hero” a Palestinian who murdered three other Palestinians for allegedly “collaborating” with Israel.


_Image 1_
In this post, UNRWA employee Akram Ayoub glorifies Palestinian killer Sami Abu Diak as a “hero.” Abu Diak was convicted by an Israeli military court of voluntary manslaughter, kidnapping, attempted murder, opening fire on people, and other offenses in 2002. He was associated with the terrorist wing of the Palestinian Fatah faction, known as the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades. At the time of his death, he was serving more than three life sentences for the killings of three Palestinians accused of collaborating with Israel. Akram Ayoub’s post adds: “May Allah have mercy on the martyrs and [bestow] glory and freedom on the heroic prisoners.” The referenced prisoners have all been convicted of terror-related crimes against Israelis, mostly murder and attempted murder.


----------



## Sixties Fan

And so, determined to come out of this unhappy affair with the least amount of injury to Israel’s standing in the world, never mind the justice thing, at the start of the hearing—which ended without a decision—the justices tried in every way to bring the parties to a compromise agreement. They were hoping to avoid overturning the legally sound court decisions over fears of international retribution. Justice is not supposed to work like that.

The neighborhood was established by Jewish settlers in 1890, and its Jewish residents were forced out by the British mandatory government during the War of Independence. In the early 2000s, after a long legal battle, Jewish residents started to come back to Shimon Hatzadik.

n the 1950s and ’60s, King Hussein of Jordan plied the Arabs of Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem under his rule with real estate to maintain their loyalty to the crown. Among those properties were those vacated Jewish homes in Sheikh Jarrah. In 1967, Israel liberated the eastern part of Jerusalem. Israeli law is very clear regarding allowing the owners to ask for and receive homes they had been kicked out of in what was briefly known as the “west bank.”

And now to the part where the late Abba Eban is smiling in his grave: the Arabs refused to offer.

The problem is not the money, but the recognition of Nahalat Shimon’s ownership of those four homes. The Arabs refused the deal (I mean, come on, a home in Jerusalem for less than $40 a month?) because the plaintiffs demanded in return for giving up the evictions a clear recognition of the Jewish ownership of the properties a clear and irreversible commitment on the part of the Arab squatters that they would make no further claims in the future.

For the Arabs, it’s November 1947 all over again: to avoid eviction they would have to declare publicly that the land is owned by the Jews, something of which culturally, religiously and ideologically they may be quite incapable of fulfilling.

(full article online)









						In Supreme Court’s Sheikh Jarrah Deliberations the Arabs Continue to Be their Own Worst Enemies
					

For the Arabs, it's November 1947 all over again.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA TV added background songs promoting terror to its broadcasts from street rallies:*​
*“No force in the world can remove the weapon from my hand” – song added to Hebron and Jenin rallies*​
*“O Fatah man with the Kalashnikov, teach them the war of the streets” - song added to Ramallah and Jericho rallies*​
* “A Martyrdom seeker... carried out an operation” – song added to Jericho rally*​
* “Victorious is the hand that blows up a tank” – song added to Jenin rally*​

(full article online)









						PA uses music to promote terror | PMW Analysis
					

“O Fatah man with the Kalashnikov, teach them the war of the streets” - song added to Ramallah and Jericho rallies




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

( The Empty Sands, the Swamps, ALL of that was once "Our Neighborhood )


----------



## Sixties Fan

_In a July 15 article in the Saudi daily _'Okaz_, journalist Muhammad Al-Sa'd harshly criticizes Palestinian militant Ahmad Jibril, who died recently, and his movement, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP–GC). Jibril and his movement, wrote Al-Sa'd, acted as a killing machine in the service of the Syrian regime,  and  killed more Palestinians during the civil wars in Lebanon and Syria than Israel has killed since 1948. Thus, they were certainly a liability rather than an asset for the Palestinian cause. 

Al-Sa'd also criticizes the head of the Hamas movement, Yahya Sinwar, for regarding Jibril as a source of inspiration, and states that Hamas acted just like Jibril when it killed Fatah members during its 2007 takeover of the Gaza Strip. He concludes by saying that the Palestinians do not understand that they are their own worst enemies and forgive themselves for their mistakes, and agrees with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who said that the Palestinian cause is a just cause but its advocates are failures.*[1]*_

(full article online)









						Saudi Writer: Ahmad Jibril Was A Killing Machine In The Service Of The Syrian Regime; Killed More Palestinians Than Israel
					

In a July 15 article in the Saudi daily 'Okaz, journalist Muhammad Al-Sa'd harshly criticizes Palestinian militant Ahmad Jibril, who died recently, and his movement, the Popular F




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

There's a good read about the Islamo-paradise that would result when Hamas brings their Charter to fruition. 

As you might expect, the article is stinging sarcasm about the competing mini-caliphates of Abbas'istan and and the dictators running both of those dystopian nightmares. 











						A Palestinian Paradise?
					

Let us assume that the State of Israel is gone, not in some bloody fashion as reflected in the Hamas charter—"Israel will …continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.”




					townhall.com
				




Let us assume that the State of Israel is gone, not in some bloody fashion as reflected in the Hamas charter—"Israel will …continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.” Instead, just assume Israel is no longer there----no occupation, no evictions, no hassles at the Temple Mount, no Israeli arrests, no wall, etc. This would surely be a Palestinian paradise, what the Palestinians have longed for seemingly forever.


----------



## Hollie

Was Death Cult celebrations go, this went like you would expect.​​​​Gunmen at Fatah rally mark first terror attack​








						Gunmen at Fatah rally mark first terror attack | PMW Translations
					

Palestinians marched at the event carrying assault rifles




					palwatch.org
				




Official Fatah Facebook page





Text and pictures posted on the official Fatah Facebook page
*Posted text:* "The Fatah Movement – Bethlehem Branch – All-Doha Region marks the 55th anniversary of the Intilaqa (i.e., “the Launch” of Fatah marked from its first terror attempt; see note below) and the 55th torch lighting"

The pictures show Palestinians marching at the event. Many of them are masked and carrying assault rifles, while others are carrying Fatah flags with the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas, and Palestinian flags. A large sign shows arch-terrorist Abu Jihad who was responsible for the murder of 125.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Terrorists Houses Must Be Demolished
					

Palestinians love repeating the line that house demolitions don’t deter attacks on their own. The answer is that house demolitions together with other policies combine to create a terror shield.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




But do house demolitions really add to Israeli’s security?

Any attempt to answer the question is speculative. Israel’s security services claim house demolitions aren’t a form of punishment, but rather a deterrent. When a Palestinian terrorist plans an attack, they take a cost/benefit analysis. If the costs – making their family homeless – is greater than the benefit of killing innocent Israeli children, the Palestinian won’t attack. The Israeli government points to incidents of Palestinian family members trying to save their house by turning their own family members in to the Israeli army before carrying out a terrorist as one proof that house demolitions are effective deterrents to terrorist attacks.


----------



## Hollie

What made Pallywood Pictures notorious for fraud and misrepresentation lives on in this diseased Cult 


PA misrepresents terrorist stabber as innocent school boy attacked by Israelis
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 27, 2021









						PA misrepresents terrorist stabber as innocent school boy attacked by Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

This week, a 17-year-old Arab teenager stabbed and wounded two Israelis. The terrorist was shot and killed by an Israeli border patrol officer at the scene.




					www.palwatch.org
				



WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT
– footage shows one of the wounded Israelis with the knife still in his back,
moments after the attack

This week, a 17-year-old Arab teenager stabbed and wounded two Israelis. After the attack, one of the victims still had the knife sticking out of his back. The terrorist was shot and killed by an Israeli border patrol officer at the scene.



However, the PA and Fatah portray terrorist stabber Zuhdi Al-Tawil differently. According to their false narrative, the stabber was an innocent school boy, murdered in cold blood by Israel.

The PA completely inverted the events, declaring that terrorist Zuhdi Al-Tawil was the victim of an Israeli attack:


----------



## P F Tinmore

‘We’re not leaving our rightful homes’: Mohammed el-Kurd speaks to MEE on Sheikh Jarrah​


----------



## P F Tinmore

The lives of young Palestinians living under occupation in Sheikh Jarrah​


----------



## Hollie

A part of existence that defines the territories occupied by the competing Pal mini-caliphates is to live in a world of denial. 












						PA leaders continue to deny existence of Jewish Temples | PMW Analysis
					

Jewish history in Jerusalem “has no basis other than in their heads that are full of legends and fantasies” - PA TV




					palwatch.org
				




PA leaders continue to deny existence of Jewish Temples
Itamar Marcus  | Aug 4, 2021

The destruction of the Jewish Temple is a “myth” - PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert”
Jewish history in Jerusalem “has no basis other than in their heads that are full of legends and fantasies” - PA TV

“No archaeological existence of their alleged Temple has been proven” – PA TV
“The Israel Antiquities Authority… put together a story and invented a narrative that suits their lies” – PA TV

“[Jews have] no religious, historical, or legal right over any inch of occupied Jerusalem,” – Abbas’ advisor on Islam

“[Jews’ visiting the Temple Mount] is dragging the region into a religious war that will burn the entire region,” - Abbas’ spokesman
Tisha B’Av is a Jewish day of mourning commemorating the destruction of the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem (586 BCE and 70 CE) and the forced exile of most of the Jewish people from the land of Israel.

On and around Tisha B’Av this year, (July 18), PA leaders and officials were busy yet again denying that those temples ever existed, despite countless of written sources, archaeological finds, and historical evidence documenting their existence. The Arch of Titus in Rome, for example, depicts Judean slaves carrying away the candelabra and other artifacts of the Temple after it was destroyed by Titus in 70 CE, and this Second Temple period coin from approximately 40 BCE also depicts the Temple’s candelabra.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Her work has been published in, among other outlets, _The New York Times_, _The Washington Post_, _The Guardian_ and _Newsweek_. She has been interviewed by _CNN _and, seemingly, the_ BBC._ She also appears to have been quoted in the _LA Times_, _Huff Post,_ _Business Insider_ and many other publications. She has been described by outlets variously as a Palestinian “journalist,” “writer,” “analyst” and “researcher.”

Mariam Barghouti is, then, a relatively well-known “go-to” voice on Israeli-Palestinian affairs. Hailing from Ramallah, her pieces have offered what one might consider an insider’s account of life in the West Bank that provide withering narratives about the “colonialist” project otherwise known as the State of Israel.

Barghouti is also an antisemite.







_(In the event these tweets are deleted, they can be viewed here and here.)_

Using a ‘verified’ Twitter account with over 74,000 followers, she has spread vicious Jew-hatred on the social media platform, including describing Israel as “beating Hitler at his own game since 1948,” and calling the Jewish state “racist Zionist-Nazi’s [sic].”

In other comments she asserted that “Zionism did nothing but exploit the tragedy of the Holocaust,” and claimed that former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a “Nazi.” Perhaps Barghouti is unaware that Netanyahu’s wife Sara lost family members in Hitler’s WWII genocide against the Jewish people.

Even so, Barghouti has still appeared in the pages and on the websites of some of the most high-profile publications in the world. Her absurd pronouncements about how the Israeli army, police and settlers are “working together in tandem” to carry out “ethnic cleansing” against the Palestinians and her declaration that the Israeli city of Tel Aviv is a “settlement” have therefore likely been internalized by swaths of people.

But readers in the first place should never have been exposed to the thoughts and opinions of someone who has harbored such deeply antisemitic sentiments.

(full article online)









						New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, Guardian Contributor: 'Israel Has Been Beating Hitler At His Own Game' | Honest Reporting
					

Her work has been published in, among other outlets, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian and Newsweek. She has been interviewed by CNN




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> ‘We’re not leaving our rightful homes’: Mohammed el-Kurd speaks to MEE on Sheikh Jarrah​



You should have paid your rent, deadbeat.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The lives of young Palestinians living under occupation in Sheikh Jarrah​



It's not "occupation" but their mind set.

They demand no Jews live in the neighborhood,
and then complain the city is "too divided".... 

BTW that family left a couple weeks ago with another 
that decided to skip the circus and move to the US. 

These 2 are actors recruited to "illustrate" and hide the fact despite all the attention 
those families have been kept on the streets by their own merely for the media stunt.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ‘We’re not leaving our rightful homes’: Mohammed el-Kurd speaks to MEE on Sheikh Jarrah​



A friend wants to know -

would you give a damn if the owners weren't Jews?


----------



## Hollie

In case you missed the festivities, there was a Mahmoud focused love-fest in that little sliver of the Islamo-paradise known as the Abbas Mini-Caliphate.










						Hundreds of Fatah Loyalists Rally in Ramallah in Support of PA President - The Media Line
					

Hundreds of Fatah supporters gathered in downtown Ramallah in the West Bank this weekend, waving the movement’s yellow flag, pledging unwavering allegiance to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who is chairman of the Fatah party, while firing rifles into the air in a show of force.




					themedialine.org
				




Hundreds of Fatah supporters gathered in downtown Ramallah in the West Bank this weekend, waving the movement’s yellow flag, pledging unwavering allegiance to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who is chairman of the Fatah party, while firing rifles into the air in a show of force.


----------



## Hollie

For some reason, westerners still insist on blaming islamic ''radicals'' for the actions of Pally Islamic terrorists. There are obvious proscriptions in Islamic ideology that explain the Hamas Charter, Pally gee-had and the 1,400 year old blood libels aimed at Jews which are so much a part of the Pally dystopia. 












						It’s the Religion, Stupid
					

You cannot reach compromises with people who believe that Allah has given them marching orders to reconstitute the Islamic empire and, ideally, expand it throughout the world. For them, Israel is a cancer in the Islamic body that must be excised.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




I was thinking about the libel comparing Israel to Afrikaner South Africa, and it occurred to me that the rebuttals, including mine, leave out a central argument. In South Africa, Afrikaners considered the country theirs—that blacks were inferior, and that they should rule over them. By contrast, Israelis acknowledge Palestinian claims to part of the land, do not consider them inferior and do not want to be their masters. It is actually the Palestinians who believe that the land belongs to them, that they are superior to Jews, and that they should control the lives of Jews.


----------



## Hollie

Just think. Billions of dollars in welfare thrown at this Cult and the welfare only placates their sociopathy.​​​​What did you learn in camp today? To “praise” terrorists, admire “Martyrs,” and erase Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 5, 2021

*Fatah summer camp presents arch-terrorist Abu Jihad and mass murderer Dalal Mughrabi and others responsible for the murder of hundreds as role models*​
*“Praise to the Martyrs!” – Children taught to glorify imprisoned, wounded, and dead terrorists at Fatah summer camp*​
*Fatah message at camps: There is no Israel, “Palestine is ours”*​
*Kids taught to campaign in stores with posters of falling bombs: “Boycott the enemy”*​
A youth camp organized by Fatah’s Shabiba high school committees featured pictures of arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, who planned attacks in which at least 125 were murdered; mass murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 37 including 12 children in 1978; Abu Iyad, who headed the terror organization Black September and planned the murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972 among other attacks; and Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar, who was the Commander of Operations of Black September.





_The screenshot from the official PA TV broadcast shows Fatah Nablus Secretary Muhammad Hamdan speaking in front of pictures displayed at the camp. In the top row of the pictures the first to the left is Abu Jihad, next is Dalal Mughrabi. Below her to the left is Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar. To the right of Hamdan in the second row is Abu Iyad._


----------



## Hollie

The Myth of ‘Occupied Palestinian Territories’: Part Two - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics
					

Find part one here. In 1964, Ahmad el-Shukairy convened a conference at which he created a terror movement called the “Palestine...




					spectator.org
				




In 1964, Ahmad el-Shukairy convened a conference at which he created a terror movement called the “Palestine Liberation Organization.” The PLO undertook to perpetrate terror acts against civilians to “liberate Palestine from the Israelis.” Yet none of their terror was aimed at driving Jordan out of its occupation of Judea and Samaria, nor Egypt out of Gaza. Rather, to liberate the newly fabricated “Palestine,” all PLO terror aimed instead at driving the Jews out of Tel Aviv, Haifa, Ra’anana, and other cities, towns, and villages in pre-1967 Israel and driving the Jews “into the [Mediterranean] sea.”

To the degree Arab Muslims claim they want “back” their “Palestine lands” from which they claim they were “expelled,” those demands would not be resolved by telling Arabs claiming their families once lived in Akko (Acre) or Yafo (Jaffa) that, as a result, they now can have Jenin in Samaria or Beit Hanoun in Gaza. _They don’t want Gaza._ It’s like a realtor telling a Midwestern Jew seeking to relocate to the Brooklyn, New York, of his childhood: “I know you have a cultural longing for Brooklyn and the sights of Flatbush, and Irv’s Knishery of Canarsie. I can’t offer you that, but here is something that is basically identical: I have a listing in Chubbuck, Idaho, and another in Waterloo, Iowa. Believe me, you won’t know the difference.”

In the end, when the Woke speak of the “Occupied Palestinian Territories,” they are not thinking “Gaza and Judea-Samaria.” Rather, their slogan is “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free.”


----------



## Hollie

Fatah praises terror attack in which “heroes” murdered 4, including a mother and her 2 young children in 1974​Fatah Movement - Nablus Branch, Facebook  | Jul 29, 2021




*Video*:
Narrator: “They had their say: “We will attack and we will not be attacked”
The heroes of the Nahariya operation (i.e., terrorists, murdered 4):
Self-sacrificing fighter Abd Al-Rahim Muhammad Nasif
Self-sacrificing fighter Ahmad Muhammad Abd Al-‘Al
Self-sacrificing fighter Muhammad Abd Al-Hamid Hanafi
The group infiltrated the settlement of Nahariya (i.e., Israeli city) by sea
The operation took place on the night of June 25, 1974
and continued for seven hours
The operation surprised the enemy commanders
During the operation dozens of [Israeli] soldiers were killed and wounded as recognized by the occupation (sic.), and the three self-sacrificing fighters were killed”
*Text on screen:* “[Fatah] Commission of Information and Culture; the southern districts”
*Posted text of Facebook page*: “#The_rebels_don’t_die_history_immortalizes_them
Get to know the Nahariya operation, which was carried out by a select squad of Fatah Movement fighters on June 24 (sic., 25), 1974.
#Watch_the_video”


----------



## Sixties Fan

A youth camp organized by Fatah’s Shabiba high school committees featured pictures of arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, who planned attacks in which at least 125 were murdered; mass murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 37 including 12 children in 1978; Abu Iyad, who headed the terror organization Black September and planned the murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972 among other attacks; and Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar, who was the Commander of Operations of Black September.






_The screenshot from the official PA TV broadcast shows Fatah Nablus Secretary Muhammad Hamdan speaking in front of pictures displayed at the camp. In the top row of the pictures the first to the left is Abu Jihad, next is Dalal Mughrabi. Below her to the left is Abu Yusuf Al-Najjar. To the right of Hamdan in the second row is Abu Iyad. _



> *Official PA TV newsreader:* “The Fatah Movement Shabiba High School Committees concluded the ‘Guardians of the Mountain’ camp in Nu’eima, which is in Jericho. The camp was established to find a place for extracurricular activities and to teach the participants the principles of affiliation, discipline, coexistence among themselves, and to familiarize them with the missions of the [PA] Security [Force] members.”
> [Official PA TV News, July 31, 2021]


In another Fatah camp - for the "Lion Cubs and Flowers” – young children were taught to glorify and give “praise” to “the prisoners,” “the wounded,” and “the Martyrs” – most of whom are/were terrorists who attacked Israel. The video shows the Damascus Gate Summer Camp held in Azzoun, east of Qalqilya. Children at the camp are chanting in response to the calls of a female camp guide:















(full article online )









						What did you learn in camp today? To “praise” terrorists, admire “Martyrs,” and erase Israel | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah summer camp presents arch-terrorist Abu Jihad and mass murderer Dalal Mughrabi and others responsible for the murder of hundreds as role models




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Border Police forces raided a factory in the town of Ar'ara, on suspicion that it illegally imported meat from Judea and Samaria, forged documents, and sold the meat to well-known stores around the country.

During the raid, the forces confiscated ten tons of various types of beef and sheep meat which had been smuggled in from areas under Palestinian Authority control and which were unfit for consumption.

(full article online)









						Meat from the Palestinian Authority - marked as strictly kosher
					

Border Police raid Arab town of Ar'ara, confiscate several tons of meat unfit for consumption and bearing forged kosher certificates.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

It's difficult to believe the Lebanese government, (whatever is left of it), would want Pally terrorists armed with Iranian rockets to launch attacks from Lebanese soil. With Hezbollah and the Pallys taking their orders from the Mullocrats, the Lebanese government may just have been told to sit down and be silent. 











						Palestinian faction again likely to be behind rocket fire from Lebanon
					

While the reason for the attack isn’t clear, Israel’s firepower response was more extensive than July’s reply to a similar attack, though still calculated to avoid a broader deterioration in security.




					www.jns.org
				





IDF shells targets in Lebanon following rocket fire on Israel’s north​Two of the projectiles landed in Israel, while a third came down in Lebanese territory, according to the Israeli military.

(August 4, 2021 / JNS) Israeli artillery units shelled targets in Lebanon on Wednesday after three rockets were fired at northern Israel from across the border, according to the Israel Defense Forces.
Three launches were detected, but only two projectiles fell on the Israeli side of the border, with the remaining one landing in Lebanese territory, according to the IDF.


----------



## Mindful

Hillel Neuer,​
August 6, 2021 — The UN agency that runs schools for Palestinians has announced it is investigating 10 of its staffers after a watchdog group exposed more than 100 teachers, school principals and other employees that praise Hitler, propagate hatred against Jews and support terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians on social media.
UNRWA’s statement (https://www.unrwa.org/.../unrwa-statement-un-watch...) also suggested they may have penalized up to 40 more employees appearing on the list of UNRWA employees guilty of incitement, published in this week’s report by UN Watch, a Geneva-based human rights group that monitors the United Nations.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists representing the Hamas Franchise are  apparently impressed with old episodes of the "Power Rangers". They even copied the spandex leotards.


----------



## Hollie

The problem with showering islamic terrorists with welfare money should be abundantly clear. 











						The problem with foreign aid for Gaza
					

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.




					www.google.com
				




Egypt has recently discovered that brokering an agreement with Hamas – the designated terrorist organization that governs the Gaza Strip – and the Palestinian Authority, which governs part of the West Bank, might be impossible, given that the two sides have been at war with each other since 2007, following a violent coup by Hamas. And it doesn’t matter that this agreement is concerning reconstruction from the 11-day war in May. Even Palestinians have long accused both Hamas and the PA of corruption. Both parties insist that they should be the sole group in charge of rebuilding and that all aid must go directly through their respective governments. The international community has yet to learn, but Hamas should never be trusted.


----------



## Hollie

I presume it is inevitable that at some point, the competing, angry islamic terrorist franchises will be at each other's throats. 








__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				




As President Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken ponder how to entice the Palestinian Authority (PA) to negotiate with Israel, a far more significant problem is being ignored. The Biden team marched along, facilitating a transfer of money to the PA and reopening the U.S. Consulate in East Jerusalem, another Palestinian demand, without tangible reciprocity. But this will not reveal the elephant in the room: an inevitable, coming uprising by Hamas in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I presume it is inevitable that at some point, the competing, angry islamic terrorist franchises will be at each other's throats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As President Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken ponder how to entice the Palestinian Authority (PA) to negotiate with Israel, a far more significant problem is being ignored. The Biden team marched along, facilitating a transfer of money to the PA and reopening the U.S. Consulate in East Jerusalem, another Palestinian demand, without tangible reciprocity. But this will not reveal the elephant in the room: an inevitable, coming uprising by Hamas in the West Bank.


Farah/Abbas suck. Their approval rating is in the toilet. The US (and everyone else) knows this. It seems that they approve.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Farah/Abbas suck. Their approval rating is in the toilet. The US (and everyone else) knows this. It seems that they approve.


Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

Israeli forces delivered some behavioral modification therapy to the islamic terrorists. 











						IDF attacks Hamas base, rocket launcher in response to balloon fires
					

Palestinian sources at about 12:30 a.m. Saturday reported that the IDF had attacked a Hamas military base and rocket launching site in Jabalya in the northern Gaza Strip.




					www.jpost.com
				





IDF attacks Hamas base, rocket launcher in response to balloon fires​Palestinian sources at about 12:30 a.m. Saturday reported that the IDF had attacked a Hamas military base and rocket launching site in Jabalya in the northern Gaza Strip.​

Incendiary balloons launched from the Gaza Strip set the sky ablaza as four fires spread across forests near the Gaza Strip, August 6, 2021. (Video Credit: Fire and Rescue Services, Southern District)


Israeli fighter jets struck Hamas targets in response to the launching of incendiary balloonson Friday, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit announced.







The Hamas military base attacked by the IDF, August 7th 2021 (Credit: IDF'S SPOKESPERSON'S UNIT)

The IDF said it struck a Hamas military camp and a rocket-launching position in the northern Gazan city of Jabalya, adding that it would “continue to respond with strikes to terror attempts from Gaza.”


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the competing mini-caliphate'ists are raising a snit about who gets to steal the welfare money pouring into that little slice of hell called the islamic terrorist occupies territories, 











						Hamas: PA obstructing Gaza reconstruction
					

The PA insists that its Ramallah-based government be in charge of the reconstruction, including the funds channeled by various countries and international parties.




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas: PA obstructing Gaza reconstruction​The PA insists that its Ramallah-based government be in charge of the reconstruction, including the funds channeled by various countries and international parties.​


----------



## Hollie

If you missed the chance to have your children enrolled in the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth, a similar ''dead yute walking'' - al qassam version is starting.


----------



## Hollie

Where does our welfare money dumped on the Pally Death Cult go?​​​Blood money: The PA has already paid $1,183,257 to the terrorists who blew up the Sbarro pizza shop murdering 15 and injuring 130​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Aug 8, 2021
*Planner of the attack: “If time could go backwards, I would carry out what I did, in the same manner."*​Tomorrow, August 9, 2021, will mark 20 years since the attack on the Sbarro pizza restaurant in Jerusalem. 15 people were murdered, including 5 members of one family, and 130 people were injured.

As a reward for carrying out the attack, each month the Palestinian Authority pays a total of US$8,006 (25,800 shekels) to the imprisoned terrorists and the families of the dead terrorists, who were involved in the attack.

By now, the PA has paid Abdullah Barghouti, the terrorist who built the bomb and is responsible for the murder of 67 people in various attacks, a cumulative sum of US$285,571 (921,500 shekels). Every month, the PA pays him a salary of US$2,255 (7,300 shekels). In addition, the PA has paid the family of the suicide bomber US$68,498 (221,400 shekels). Every month the PA continues to pay his family an allowance of US$432 (1,400 shekels). The minimum wage in the PA is 1,450 shekels/month (US$44).




The monthly PA salary payments to the imprisoned terrorists are not just a whim. Rather, they are codified in the PA Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners, No. 19 of 2004 and regulations promulgated pursuant to the law.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Not the Palestinians in Lebanon, but the Lebanese......are attacking Israel.....not for Lebanese reasons.....but for Islamic reasons )

Several Palestinian factions praised Hezbollah over the weekend for firing rockets into northern Israel and vowed to continue launching incendiary balloons from the Gaza Strip.

Earlier on Friday, a heavy barrage of close to 20 rockets was fired from Lebanon into northern Israel, activating the Iron Dome missile defense system and setting off sirens throughout the area. The Iron Dome intercepted 10 rockets, with six falling in open areas near Har Dov on the Lebanese border. The others fell inside Lebanon.

The Coalition of Palestinian Forces in Lebanon, a group representing various Palestinian factions, praised Hezbollah for “targeting Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories in response to the aggression that targeted Lebanese territories on Thursday.”

In a statement published in Lebanon, the factions expressed full support for Hezbollah’s response and stressed “the right of the resistance to confront the Israeli aggression aimed at imposing new equations or changing the rules of engagement.”

The factions said that the rocket attack aimed to send “a clear message emphasizing Hezbollah’s natural right to respond to aggression, defend the people and the land and prevent the enemy from achieving its suspicious goals.”

According to the factions, the attack came at a time when the Palestinians are “confronting the continuous Israeli aggression in Jerusalem, the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip.”

Hamas welcomed the Hezbollah attack and said the “battle with the enemy must continue on all fronts until the liberation of the holy sites and the Arab and Islamic lands.”

(full article online)









						Palestinian factions applaud Hezbollah rocket attack on Israel
					

Hamas welcomed the Hezbollah attack and said that it fully supports the "resistance in Lebanon" in its fight against "the Zionist aggression."




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

By now, the PA has paid Abdullah Barghouti, the terrorist who built the bomb and is responsible for the murder of 67 people in various attacks, a cumulative sum of US$285,571 (921,500 shekels). Every month, the PA pays him a salary of US$2,255 (7,300 shekels). In addition, the PA has paid the family of the suicide bomber US$68,498 (221,400 shekels). Every month the PA continues to pay his family an allowance of US$432 (1,400 shekels). The minimum wage in the PA is 1,450 shekels/month (US$44).






The monthly PA salary payments to the imprisoned terrorists are not just a whim. Rather, they are codified in the PA Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners, No. 19 of 2004 and regulations promulgated pursuant to the law.

*Israeli interviewer:* "Who chose Sbarro [as the target]?"

*Tamimi:* "I did. For nine days I examined the place very carefully and chose it after seeing the large number of patrons at the Sbarro restaurant. I didn't want to blow [myself] up, I didn't want to carry out a Martyrdom-seeking operation (i.e., a suicide attack). My mission was just to choose the place and to bring the Martyrdom-seeker (i.e., the suicide bomber). [I made] the general plan of the operation, but carrying it out was entrusted to the Martyrdom-seeker. ... I told him to enter the restaurant, eat a meal, and then after 15 minutes carry out the Martyrdom-seeking operation. During the quarter of an hour I would return the same way that I had arrived. Then I bade him farewell. He went inside, he crossed the road and went to the restaurant, and I went back the way I had come... You have to know something: a Martyrdom-seeker has a very special character, and I was amazed at his great wish to carry out the operation, his great wish to pass over to a different life. How beautiful it is when you make a person - [starts the sentence again] [Suppose] there's a poor person and you give him a lot of money. He will be happy and you yourself will be happy that you realized for him the happy life that he wanted. My job was to realize, for this Martyrdom-seeker, the happy life that he wanted."

*Interviewer:* "Didn't you think about the people who were in the restaurant? The children? The families?"

*Tamimi:* "No."

*Tamimi:* "I have no regrets, and no Palestinian prisoner regrets what he or she has done. We were defending ourselves. What are we supposed to regret? Should we regret defending ourselves? Should we regret that the Israelis killed one of us so we killed a different one of them? We have no regrets."

*Interviewer: *"Do you know how many children were killed in the restaurant?"

*Tamimi:* "Three children were killed in the operation, I think. [Smiles.]"

*Interviewer: *"Eight."

*Tamimi: *"Eight?! [Smiles.] Eight."

[Official PA TV, Oct. 23, 2011]

(full article online)









						Blood money: The PA has already paid $1,183,257 to the terrorists who blew up the Sbarro pizza shop murdering 15 and injuring 130 | PMW Analysis
					

Planner of the attack: “If time could go backwards, I would carry out what I did, in the same manner."




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *Tamimi:* "I have no regrets, and no Palestinian prisoner regrets what he or she has done. We were defending ourselves. What are we supposed to regret? Should we regret defending ourselves? Should we regret that the Israelis killed one of us so we killed a different one of them? We have no regrets."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Applauding the actions of a sociopath who planned the killing of innocent people.

Lovely. 

Such is the mental illness that afflicts the islamic Death Cultist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Applauding the actions of a sociopath who planned the killing of innocent people.
> 
> Lovely.
> 
> Such is the mental illness that afflicts the islamic Death Cultist.


Israel kills innocent civilians by the thousands.

Do you have a point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel kills innocent civilians by the thousands.
> 
> Do you have a point?


That was quite a sidestep. 

There is a certain mental illness that would celebrate the intentional, planned killng of innocent women and children. That illness seems to afflict those from an identifiable geographic location who adhere to an identifiable politico-religious ideology. 

Do you have an autographed pair of Tamimi Pom Poms?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> That was quite a sidestep.
> 
> There is a certain mental illness that would celebrate the intentional, planned killng of innocent women and children. That illness seems to afflict those from an identifiable geographic location who adhere to an identifiable politico-religious ideology.
> 
> Do you have an autographed pair of Tamimi Pom Poms?


Why do you criticize Palestinians for something when Israel does it more?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Why do you criticize Palestinians for something when Israel does it more?


Israel doesn't "does it more". 

Don't try and justify your acceptance of islamic terrorist killing with false claims of "they does it more".

Your promotion of what amounts to justification of islamic terrorism is really just vile. 

Flail your Pom Poms.


----------



## Sixties Fan

For months we were told that the Palestinians were suffering from a severe shortage of vaccines. Now it turns out that even if they would have accepted the million Israeli vaccines offered since mid-June, they would have thrown them out anyway - very few Palestinians are interested in the shot. There aren't lines of people wanting the shot, but lines of clinics begging people to take the shot.

But the news media suddenly lost interest in the story.

(full article online)









						If Palestinians would have accepted Israel's million vaccines in June/July, they would have thrown most out because of no demand
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Hollie

An islamic terrorist love-fest. The Sunni and Shia will occasionally put their 1,400 year long blood feud aide in the interest of Jew hating.











						Raisi hosts Palestinian terror chiefs, vows to keep cause at top of agenda
					

In meetings with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP leaders during first full day in office, new Iranian president praises their 'victory' over Israel in May's Gaza conflict




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Raisi hosts Palestinian terror chiefs, vows to keep cause at top of agenda​In meetings with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP leaders during first full day in office, new Iranian president praises their ‘victory’ over Israel in May’s Gaza conflict​


Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh (L) greets new Iran President Ebrahim Raisi at the latter's office on August 6, 2021.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Accordingly, Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub bragged at a recent Fatah rally that 12% of the imprisoned Palestinian terrorists are from the PA Security Forces:











> *Jibril Rajoub:* “12% of the prisoners (i.e., terrorists) in the [Israeli] prisons are members of the PA Security [Forces]. 12% of the total are security members. So no one should lecture Fatah or its institutions.”
> [Official PA TV, July 13, 2021]


Along the same lines, Fatah Revolutionary Council Secretary Majed Al-Fatiani stated that Fatah is “leading this popular resistance and it is part of the Palestinian organizational and fighting activity,” and emphasized that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas “never opposed any… action that could contribute to this occupation leaving”:

(full article online)









						12% of terrorist prisoners are from PA Security Forces, brags Fatah official Rajoub | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas “never opposed any… action that could contribute to this occupation leaving,” says Fatah official




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has started a military training camp under the name "Sword of Jerusalem" for Gazans.

Its photos show that not only do they appear to be training children to join the Hamas Al Qassam Brigades, but also some grey-haired men.






(full article online)









						Hamas training kids - and old men - for the next war
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Hamas is outraged that some 69 members of the terror organization have been sentenced to prison terms in Saudi Arabia. 




Those sentenced include the Hamas representative in Saudi Arabia, Mohammed al-Khoudary, and his son Hani.

The elder Khoudary is said to have been close to the Saudi royal family in years past.

Saudi Arabia arrested scores of Palestinians and Jordanians in 2019 - over a year before the Abraham Accords.

This indicates (but does not prove) that the Saudis were turning against the Palestinian terror groups independently of any potential ties to Israel.

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Saudis have outlawed that group as a terrorist group since 2014. 

Al Qaeda likewise has its ideological roots in the Muslim Brotherhood, although the Brotherhood claims to have been against violence for decades. 

Obviously, Hamas does not subscribe to that philosophy. Indeed, Hamas' defense of their members in Saudi Arabia has been that they hadn't committed any crimes specifically against the Kingdom.

(full article online)









						Saudi Arabia sentences 69 Hamas members to prison
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## P F Tinmore

Hundreds of Palestinians sing for Jerusalem in Bab al-Amoud Square in occupied #Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

With the seemingly endless boatloads of welfare money that pours into the territories occupied by the competing Islamic terrorist franchises,  personal fortunes are made when you're connected to the dictatorship. 











						Corruption affects everything in Palestine – even vaccines | The Spectator
					

Visit certain parts of the West Bank and you’ll encounter mansions owned by senior officials in the Palestinian Authority (PA). By any standards – let alone those to which ordinary citizens are accustomed – they are impressive, with arches, colonnades and tall windows. If you’d been watching...




					www.google.com
				




According to AMAN, a Palestinian anti-corruption body linked to Transparency International, almost 70 per cent of Palestinians believe that their government institutions are corrupt. An EU report found

that embezzlement had led to a loss of £1.7 billion of aid money between 2008 and 2012 alone. Huge sums are spent on fake companies and projects, including – in 2017 – a non-existent airline.

Government jobs, prized due to the weakness of the economy, are dished out through cronyism rather than fair competition. Well-connected people are able to avoid paying taxes on things like imported cars. And the security services have traditionally been saturated with high-ranking officers drawing fat salaries while commanding tiny numbers of ordinary soldiers.


----------



## Hollie

Shocking! 











						Hamas' Economic War Against Its Own People: The Honest Report Podcast – Episode 20
					

Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip suffer from one of the highest levels of poverty and unemployment in the world.




					honestreporting.ca
				




Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip suffer from one of the highest levels of poverty and unemployment in the world. It is a human rights tragedy for the 1.8 million residents of the coastal enclave. But while international nongovernmental organizations and media outlets frequently point the finger at Israel, in reality, it is Hamas, the terrorist group which runs Gaza, which is wholly responsible.

Hamas actively steals hundreds of millions of dollars each year from its own people, and enriches its senior leadership as a result. But Hamas continues to get a free pass from much of the world, despite its open thievery.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Children of Gaza | Short Documentary: Featuring Miko Peled​


----------



## Hollie

Gee. Islamic terrorists have an ''image'' crisis.​​​​







						Hamas on advocacy blitz to counter exposé of corruption by 2nd ‘Son of Hamas’
					

Terror group launches public display of support for co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef after a second of his sons tells Israeli TV of its cynicism and his disillusionment




					www.timesofisrael.com
				


​Hamas on advocacy blitz to counter exposé of corruption by 2nd ‘Son of Hamas’​Terror group launches public display of support for co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef after a second of his sons tells Israeli TV of its cynicism and his disillusionment​By TOI STAFF5 July 2019, 3:01 am  



Hamas fighters take part in a military maneuver in Gaza City on March 25, 2018. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)

The Gaza-based Hamas terror group has launched an expansive effort to counter an Israeli television news interview with the son of one of the terror group’s founding fathers in which he accused the organization of being corrupt, power-hungry, racist and bad for the Palestinians, Channel 12 news reported Thursday, a day after it broadcast the interview.


----------



## Hollie

As Qatar is looking to dump more suitcases of welfare money into that little slice of the good life called Retrograde'istan...​​​Where's the Qatari money?' Hamas facing growing criticism in Gaza​







						'Where's the Qatari money?' Hamas facing growing criticism in Gaza
					

Recent spike in injuries among Palestinian youths dispatched by terror group to protest at Israeli border fence has led to a rise in complaints about the Strip's rulers, as Gazans see double standard in opportunities and funding




					www.ynetnews.com
				


Recent spike in injuries among Palestinian youths dispatched by terror group to protest at Israeli border fence has led to a rise in complaints about the Strip's rulers, as Gazans see double standard in opportunities and funding​Elior Levy|Published:  10.03.19 , 19:19

As injuries increase, so does the criticism towards Hamas and its policy of sending young men to riot at the Gaza fence in exchange for small amounts of money or food, while the organization's heads are taking the Qatari money meant for the people, all for themselves.


An example of such criticism is a picture that's making the rounds online, where one can see the leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, with his six sons, standing healthy in tailored suits, and beneath it, a picture of Gaza youths who have had a leg amputated.





The glory of islamic terrorism. From 632 ce.


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. We're told that Pally terrorists never commit acts of islamic terrorism outside of their mini-caliphate.


----------



## Hollie

Just when you think it can't get worse...

I think the curious dynamic is that Pally heroes are typically defined as murderous sociopaths. As opposed to any positive attributes that are advancing or attribute positively, the Pal-Arab model is to assign heroism to the act of self destruction and mass killing as a politico-religious undertaking. 



Palestinian heroes: Murderers of mother and her 2 young children; suicide bomber who murdered 30









						Palestinian heroes: Murderers of mother and her 2 young children; suicide bomber who murdered 30 | PMW Analysis
					

Killer of mother and 2 children: “The heroes of the Nahariya operation”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 10, 2021

Killer of mother and 2 children: “The heroes of the Nahariya operation”

Suicide bomber who killed 30: “Self-sacrificing” “Martyrdom-seeker”
Murderers of the past continue to be hailed as “heroes” in today’s Palestinian Authority.

One of the most lethal terror attacks in Israel's history was when Palestinian terrorist Abd Al-Basset Odeh carried out a suicide bombing at a Passover dinner at the Park Hotel in Netanya on March 27, 2002. 30 Israeli civilians were murdered and 140 were wounded.

This attack, which happened at the height of the 5-year PA terror campaign – the second Intifada – is still being celebrated today in the PA as a landmark event, undertaken by a true “hero.” Still today, almost 20 years later, while praising the terrorists of the Jenin refugee camp who “wrote a heroic epic in blood” during the PA terror campaign, the official PA daily also singled out for praise suicide bomber Odeh from Tulkarem in the West Bank:


----------



## Sixties Fan

The US also asked the Palestinian Authority to credibly investigate the apparent murder of Nizar Banat, to be completed within three months, to regain PA credibility on the Palestinian street.

Perhaps more interesting than this story is the leaking of this story. If it is true, or partially true, it means that someone who works in the US State Department leaked it - and they chose to leak it to an Arab news site. Only an Arabic speaker would choose Arabi21, a site that is barely known to the Western world.

If the leak is legitimate, it was done to embarrass the Palestinian Authority. We know that because the end of the story quotes the source as saying "the document, with what it reveals of American and Israeli interventions, reveals the truth about who runs the Palestinian Authority."

It is also notable that the leak doesn't include any concessions to the Palestinian Authority itself, which any real agreement would do, which hints that there are other sections of the alleged agreement that were not leaked - in order to make the PA look as bad as possible.

All of this means that if it is found out that the story is true or partially true, there is someone in the State Department who is actively working to undermine the Palestinian Authority and try to boost more radical Palestinian factions. 

That might be bigger news than the reported agreement itself. 

(full article online)









						Arab news site claims to reveal agreement between the US, Israel and Palestinian Authority. The supposed leak might be the bigger story.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Murderers of the past continue to be hailed as “heroes” in today’s Palestinian Authority.

One of the most lethal terror attacks in Israel's history was when Palestinian terrorist Abd Al-Basset Odeh carried out a suicide bombing at a Passover dinner at the Park Hotel in Netanya on March 27, 2002. 30 Israeli civilians were murdered and 140 were wounded.

This attack, which happened at the height of the 5-year PA terror campaign – the second Intifada – is still being celebrated today in the PA as a landmark event, undertaken by a true “hero.” Still today, almost 20 years later, while praising the terrorists of the Jenin refugee camp who “wrote a heroic epic in blood” during the PA terror campaign, the official PA daily also singled out for praise suicide bomber Odeh from Tulkarem in the West Bank:



> “*Each year in April the blood of the Martyrs sprouts flowers*. All the words are silenced, but not the memories of the refugee camp whose *residents wrote a heroic epic in blood*… The location: The Jenin refugee camp in the northern West Bank. The time: The beginning of April 2002.  *The heroes of the story are hundreds of resistance members* and all the residents of the refugee camp who stand firm… *They tell the story of the blood that flowed in the alleys of the camp, which wrote an epic of resolve. Despite the siege, it achieved a great victory*… After *Martyrdom-seeker Abd Al-Basset Odeh* (i.e., suicide bomber, murdered 30) from Tulkarem in the northwest of the occupied West Bank carried out *a self-sacrificing operation* (i.e., suicide bombing) on March 27, 2002, in which 30 Israelis were killed at the Park Hotel in *occupied Umm Khaled – which the occupation changed its name to ‘Netanya*.’”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 5, 2021]


Similarly Abbas’ Fatah Movement recently celebrated another lethal terror attack, which took place decades before the Park Hotel bombing. On June 25, 1974, three Palestinian terrorists broke into an apartment building in Nahariya, where they murdered 30-year-old Irena Zarankin, her 10-year-old daughter Ronit, and her 5-year-old son Gilad. Zarankin’s husband Mordechai had made a rope out of sheets for them to escape out the window and blockaded the door, but one of the terrorists was waiting below and shot Irena and the children as they climbed down; Mordechai survived the attack.

Israeli soldiers who arrived at the scene killed all three terrorists, but in the exchange of fire 21-year-old Israeli soldier Danny Senesh was also murdered. At the time Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack, and still today it marks the anniversary of the attack, praising the murderers as “the heroes of the Nahariya operation”:

(full article online)









						Palestinian heroes: Murderers of mother and her 2 young children; suicide bomber who murdered 30 | PMW Analysis
					

Killer of mother and 2 children: “The heroes of the Nahariya operation”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

_The recent weeks have seen ongoing protests in the West Bank against the Palestinian Authority (PA) over the killing of opposition activist Nizar Banat by the PA's security apparatuses.[1] The PA has faced intense criticism, both for the killing of the activist and for the harsh suppression of the public protests that erupted in its wake, measures which were in flagrant violation of freedom of expression and of the press.[2] The protests also expressed the intense dissatisfaction of the Palestinian public over systemic problems afflicting the PA, such as the absence of democracy and the rampant corruption, especially in light of Palestinian President Mahmoud 'Abbas' April 2021 decision to once again postpone the PA elections until further notice._

(full article online)









						Palestinian Politicians, Journalists Slam Fatah: It Has Transformed From A Liberation Movement Into A Militia Suppressing All Legitimate Criticism Of Palestinian Authority
					

The recent weeks have seen ongoing protests in the West Bank against the Palestinian Authority (PA) over the killing of opposition activist Nizar Banat by the PA's security appara




					www.memri.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Tunisia is the third Arab country after Egypt and Sudan to say that it is fed up with the rule of the Islamists. With the exception of Qatar, most of the Arab countries have long regarded the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups as a major threat to security, stability and peace.
The Palestinians... seem to be the only Arabs who continue to believe in the Muslim Brotherhood and its affiliates, particularly Hamas, the terrorist group that has been ruling the Gaza Strip since July 2007.
Sawsan Al-Sha'er, one of Bahrain's most influential journalists and intellectuals, expressed relief over the ouster of the Islamists of Tunisia and said that this should serve as a reminder to all Arabs that Islamist parties – Shiite and Sunni alike – care about nothing else but reaching power.
"The Arabs have discovered that these parties do not have a ... development program, or a future vision; the only project they have is to reach a position of decision-making and seize power. The religious parties do not recognize sovereign borders, the state's constitution, laws, and regulations. In all the Arab countries in which these parties have reached decision-making positions, they bypassed all constitutional and political frameworks, and they do not see anything wrong with that...." — Sawsan Al-Sha'er, _Al-Ain_, August 1, 2021.
According to Al-Sha'er, the Islamists want to... make them subject to foreign powers, especially Iran.
"What happened in Tunisia is similar to what happened in Egypt in 2013, when the Egyptian people rose up against the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood and overthrew them after discovering their subversive project, confirming once again the failure of the Islamists in managing the affairs of the state.... it confirms that the Arabs can no longer tolerate this group and its policies." — Amal Abdullah Al-Haddabi, _Al-Ain_, August 3, 2021.
Al-Haddabi pointed out that during the past decade, successive Tunisian governments that were dominated by the Islamists failed to score any achievements for the people.
Another reason the Tunisian Islamists failed, was because they "failed to believe in democracy in its true meaning, including freedom of the media, the independence of the judiciary and economic and social rights." — Abdel Aziz Khamis Khamis, Saudi journalist, Sky News Arabia, August 2, 2021.
The jubilation in the Arab countries over the toppling of the Ennahdah Party sends a clear message to the rest of the world against embracing or appeasing the Islamists. Sadly, this is a message that continues to be ignored by the many Palestinians and leaders in the West who continue to support Hamas and other Iranian-backed Islamist groups that seek to eliminate Israel and keep the Palestinians mired in misery.

(full article online)









						Arabs Celebrate Downfall of Tunisia's Islamists
					

Tunisia is the third Arab country after Egypt and Sudan to say that it is fed up with the rule of the Islamists. With the exception of Qatar, most of the Arab countries have long regarded the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups as a major threat




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

The House of Saud seems a bit miffed at their Shia wannabe neighbors. 

With Hamas doing some world class sucking up to the Iranian Mullocrats while the Saudi's are being shelled by Iranian backed Houthi's, the Saudi's sent a message to Hamas.












						Saudi Arabia Acts Against Hamas Terrorism
					

Hamas claims Saudi clampdown on its operatives occurred to curry U.S. and Israeli favor - Saudi Arabia Acts Against Hamas Terrorism




					jcpa.org
				




Hamas is deeply shocked by a Saudi court’s decision to send dozens of its activists to prison. They were arrested more than two years ago on suspicion of money laundering and smuggling funds to Hamas’ military-terrorist wing in the Gaza Strip, aided by money exchange companies in Turkey.

On August 8, 2021, the Saudi court published the sentences of 69 Hamas operatives living in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. They were sentenced to various periods of imprisonment between six months and 22 years; five were found innocent and released.

Senior Hamas figure Dr. Mohammed al-Khoudary, 81, who was the head of Hamas’ branch in Saudi Arabia, was sentenced to 15 years in prison.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Who are the Terrorists?
※→ Hollie,  P F Tinmore, et al,

◈◈◈* Great Contribution from "Hollie." *◈◈◈​
*BLUF*:  "_The men were arrested three years ago and accused of affiliation with a terrorist organization and raising funds on its behalf._"



Hollie said:


> *EXCERPT*
> Hamas is deeply shocked by a Saudi court’s decision to send dozens of its activists to prison.
> 
> Senior Hamas figure Dr. Mohammed al-Khoudary, 81, who was the head of Hamas’ branch in Saudi Arabia, was sentenced to 15 years in prison.


*(COMMENT)*

It is pretty clear to me that most of the Gulf State Nations know who are terrorists → as a threat to their national security.

This clears up who the terrorists are and if they are an International Threat.  No one can say that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) operate only within their borders _(whatever that means)_.







_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel unilaterally decided to build the elevator after many years of lobbying because the Palestinian Authority would never agree to anything like this. The human rights of the disabled would not even be considered as a factor. In fact, you will not find any supposedly liberal anti-Israel activist who supports the idea that Jews have the human right to visit the site freely, let alone that disabled people have the right to visit safely, because the imperative of being anti-Israel is much more important than mere human rights.

Arab media claim that this will be a Jewish-only elevator. Arab media is lying - the elevator is for all. But the hate that the Palestinians and their supporters have for Jews is far, far higher than their desire to allow even disabled Muslims to visit their own holy sites, as long as the plan also helps any Jews.

The main Palestinian argument is that this elevator and supporting infrastructure is using land that belongs to Arab Hebron and the Waqf, and therefore this violates agreements. But the Palestinians have also signed agreements saying that Jews should have free access to their holy places. No one seems to insist that they hold up those agreements. If they were a normal government that cared about human rights and peace, something could have been hammered out to allow wheelchair access for all back in 2003. 

When the PA uses language like "racist" and "colonialist" and "Talmudic" - one of their favorite epithets  - to describe an elevator to help the disabled, it proves yet again that this is all about hating Jews and denying Jews their rights. 

(full article online)









						An elevator for the disabled is called a "racist, Judaizing, colonialist,Talmudic crime" by the Palestinian Authority
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

One of al-Jabri's sons had a medical condition and needs medicine. Al-Jabri himself seems to have a kidney ailment. He does not have a job and cannot afford the medicine needed. 

So he made a video to get Hamas' attention to get the medicine and possibly a job.

In the video, he didn't threaten to kill himself if he didn't get what he wanted. No - instead, he threatened to slaughter his 13 children. (He didn't mention the two wives he seems to have.)
On camera. 

With a knife.











The commenters are all very sympathetic. I didn't see one who said, "How can any decent father threaten to murder his own kids, even if it is meant to publicize his medical plight.

It seems his love of Hamas has paid off, because on Tuesday, he posted that he spoke with Hamas officials who assured him that things will work out, although they made no promises yet and negotiations are continuing.

This is a story about both how Hamas has no problem spending millions on weapons and tunnels, very little to help the people of Gaza, and only the people of Gaza who are on Hamas' side can expect some help. It is also the story of the sickness that so many Palestinians have where threatening their own children is not worth condemning. 

(full article online)









						A Gazan threatens to stab his 13 children to death if he doesn't get a job and medicine. He won't stab himself, just his kids.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

https://worldisraelnews.com/hiding-terror-tunnel-hamas-blocks-un-staff-from-inspecting-school/?utm_source=newsletters_worldisraelnews_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Hamas+Hides+Terror+Tunnel+from+UN%3B+China+Targets+Israel+with+Massive+Cyber+Attacks%3B+Israel+Warns+CIA%3A+Iran%27s+President+‘Mentally+Disturbed’%3B+Did+Israel+Just+Attack+Iranian+Ship%3F&utm_campaign=20210811_m164324213_Hamas+Hides+Terror+Tunnel+from+UN%3B+China+Targets+Israel+with+Massive+Cyber+Attacks%3B+Israel+Warns+CIA%3A+Iran%27s+President+‘Mentally+Disturbed’%3B+Did+Israel+Just+Attack+Iranian+Ship%3F&utm_term=Hiding+Terror+Tunnel_2C+Hamas+Blocks+UN+from+Inspecting+School


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## Sixties Fan

Thank you, Mr. President.

I take the floor on behalf of UN Watch.
My name is Mosab Hassan Yousef. I grew up in Ramallah as a member of Hamas.
I address my words to the Palestinian Authority, which claims to be the “sole legitimate representative” of the Palestinian people.
I ask: where does your legitimacy come from?
The Palestinian people did not elect you, and they did not appoint you to represent them.
You are self-appointed.
Your accountability is not to your own people. This is evidenced by your total violation of their human rights.
In fact, the Palestinian individual and their human development is the least of your concerns.
You kidnap Palestinian students from campus and torture them in your jails. You torture your political rivals. The suffering of the Palestinian people is the outcome of your selfish political interests. You are the greatest enemy of the Palestinian people.
If Israel did not exist, you would have no one to blame. Take responsibility for the outcome of your own actions.
You fan the flames of conflict to maintain your abusive power.
Finally, you use this platform to mislead the international community, and to mislead Palestinian society, to believe that Israel is responsible for the problems you create.

Thank you.












						U.N. Clash: Son of Hamas Chief Calls PA 'Enemy of the Palestinian People' - UN Watch
					

U.N. Stunned as Palestinian Exposes PLO Lies AMBUSHED: When U.N. dictatorships tried to falsely accuse and scapegoat Israel, they didn't know we had invited a surprise guest speaker—the Palestinian "Green Prince" Mosab Hassan Yousef—to expose their lies & hypocrisy. Watch as heads turn, and the...



					unwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan

Mosab Yousef claims to have followed the regional developments minutely and attributed the latest round of violence to Hamas itself. The property feud in East Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood "the ostensible trigger of the current unrest — was just a pretext," he said. He did not hesitate to inform that top Hamas leader like his father likely professed and practised violence in underground bunkers and use the demise of their own people to score propaganda points.

(full article online)









						Son of Hamas founder urges Israel to 'target terror group’s leaders for assassination'
					

He urged the Israeli forces to take down Hamas militants despite the announcement of a ceasefire in the Israel- Palestine conflict in the Gaza Strip.




					www.republicworld.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Or in plain text:



> Hamas prevented a UN team of experts from working in the vicinity of a tunnel shaft that was revealed more than two months ago under an UNRWA school in the Zeitun neighborhood of Gaza, and expelled the team from the place. Palestinian sources reported to Kan News that the team had arrived at the school from UNMAS — the United Nations Mine Action Services— some days earlier, at the request of UNRWA, in order to ensure that the area was clear of unexploded ordnance and that the school could begin its academic year safely despite the tunnel underneath.
> Arriving on the scene as soon as they learned that the team was at the school, Hamas police asked the UN team to leave immediately and closed the site off. As a result, the team cancelled its plans for an additional examination — at Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, where suspicions of tunneling near an UNRWA school were also under examination.
> Following the incident, UNRWA sources informed the Hamas administration that the school year cannot begin next week at those two schools, which together serve some 4,000 students in Zeitun and Rafah unless the two sites are dealt with by the UN’s teams of experts.


Contrast this with claims by Human Rights Watch that they were apparently able to investigate and found no evidence for Israel’s tunnel claims:



> The Israeli military has presented no information that would demonstrate the existence of tunnels or an underground command center in this vicinity … Human Rights Watch did not find any evidence of a military target at or near the site of the airstrikes, including tunnels or an underground command center under al-Wahda street or buildings nearby.


So we are to believe that Hamas prevents the UN from searching for tunnels under UN schools in Gaza, but they allowed Human Rights Watch to search wherever they wanted? Or when HRW says they found no evidence is that because they never actually looked for evidence? Or is it just that Hamas trusts HRW more than they trust the UN?

The bottom line is that when it comes to Israel, Human Rights Watch is less credible even than the United Nations, and that is a truly low bar.

(full article online)









						Human Rights Watch and its Tunnel Deceptions — Updated with UNRWA Confirmation
					

Human Rights Watch repeatedly scoffs at IDF claims that there are Hamas tunnels under Gaza, saying that HRW’s investigators could find no trace of




					www.camera.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Sometimes, a business must go bust and take the consequences, but this business never does )

PA government cannot meet its obligations to contractors and faces struggle to pay workers, and as Israel mulls steps designed to strengthen it economically and donors consider increasing financial aid, the West Bank economic crisis keeps growing, with potentially harsh consequences​
(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority faces severe financial crunch as bills go unpaid
					

PA government cannot meet its obligations to contractors and faces struggle to pay workers, and as Israel mulls steps designed to strengthen it economically and donors consider increasing financial aid, the West Bank economic crisis keeps growing, with potentially harsh consequences




					www.ynetnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Definitely a step in the right direction. Continuing to provide welfare money to Islamic terrorists is a decades old fool’s game. 










						Senate Unanimously Approves Sen. Rick Scott’s Amendment Stopping Tax Dollars from Benefitting Hamas Terrorists
					






					www.rickscott.senate.gov
				





August 10, 2021​WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, the United States Senate unanimously adopted Senator Rick Scott’s amendment to the Democrats’ massive $5.5 TRILLION tax-and-spending spree budget bill to stand up for Israel by preventing taxpayer funding from going to Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad or any other terrorist organization. The amendment would also allow for further sanctions against these terrorist groups.


----------



## Hollie

They compete for title of ''better''islamic terrorist organization.​​​Fatah Facebook post: “How could we let the resistance (Hamas) be condemned as terror when we are the ones who fired the first bullet?“​








						Fatah Facebook post: “How could we let the resistance (Hamas) be condemned as terror when we are the ones who fired the first bullet?“ | PMW Translations
					

Image and text posted on the official Fatah Facebook page The image shows PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas on the left and former PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat – founder of the PLO and Fatah terror organizations in the 1960s, and former chairman of the PA holding an assault rifle on the right. Below Arafat...




					palwatch.org
				









Image and text posted on the official Fatah Facebook page

The image shows PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas on the left and former PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat – founder of the PLO and Fatah terror organizations in the 1960s, and former chairman of the PA holding an assault rifle on the right. Below Arafat is the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I read Palestinian news sites every day and see the crazy, funhouse mirror world that they live and think in.

Today I saw something normal - which makes it extraordinary.

The Association for Culture and Free Thought, in Khan Yunis, is organizing a summer camp for children in cooperation with the Research and Astronomy Center of Al-Aqsa University in Gaza called "Adventures in Astronomy".

The kids learn astronomy and have access to a large telescope to use in the evenings.

The camp coordinator, Youssef Daher, says the camp "aims to develop the scientific, cognitive and astronomical skills of a segment of Gaza children, and to alleviate the scientific gap that exists between them and scientific development outside Palestine."

I looked up the Association for Culture and Free Thought. It was set up by a group of women in Gaza who were sick of how everything Palestinian kids are exposed to is politicized. They want Palestinian kids to have normal lives, protected from danger - not exposed to it as Hamas and Islamic Jihad camps do. They want kids to learn and thrive.

They aren't Zionists - they partially blame the "occupation" for kids' problems in Gaza. But they are clearly not fans of Hamas and the terror groups that dominate everyday life in Gaza, either. 

They want kids to have a chance to be curious and grow. This astronomy camp is just one of their initiatives.

What is remarkable is that this is so unusual. If most Palestinians would act like these brave women that started this center, instead of growing up with  singleminded hate, there would be peace.









						A unusual story from Gaza - because it is normal
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

HRW doesn't mention that the reason that people want to remain anonymous it because if they gave their names, Hamas would persecute them. Furthermore, it never mentions the possibility that the "witnesses" it interviewed about Israeli airstrikes might be purposefully saying what Hamas wants them to say, which may prompt them to make highly improbable statements like seeing a high speed missile explode only one meter above the ground from meters away and not saying that it appeared to be a militant rocket.

The fact that Gaza civilians are afraid to talk freely to reporters and investigators is itself evidence of Hamas violations of human rights. But instead of calling this out, HRW meekly accedes to Hamas' dictates.

One other major difference between Human Rights Watch's anti-Israel reports and this whitewash report: 

HRW assumes that anything an Israeli official says is a lie. If Israel says that they were targeting a tunnel or a weapons cache or a Hamas leader, if HRW's crack team of militarily ignorant researchers cannot find their own corroboration, they will accuse Israel of not telling the truth. This assumption reaches almost comical proportions when HRW claims that there were no tunnels under the streets that Israel methodically bombed even when the evidence is apparent.

But when it comes to Hamas, HRW does not accuse them of lying. Hamas proudly admits that it targets Israeli civilian centers, so when HRW accuses Hamas of war crimes, they are not going beyond anything Hamas itself says. It doesn't investigate to contradict Hamas claims but to prove them.

HRW officials will point to this report as evidence that they take Hamas war crimes seriously. In fact, it is only proof that they take criticism of their overwhelming anti-Israel bias - which erodes their reputation - seriously.

It is a license for them to publish their next ten anti-Israel screeds.

(full article online)









						HRW's report on Gaza rockets is nothing but a whitewash - of @HRW's bias against Israel. (And even this report is biased against Israel.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> I looked up the Association for Culture and Free Thought. It was set up by a group of women in Gaza who were sick of how everything Palestinian kids are exposed to is politicized. They want Palestinian kids to have normal lives, protected from danger - not exposed to it as Hamas and Islamic Jihad camps do. They want kids to learn and thrive.


You gotta love Palestinian women.


----------



## Sixties Fan

( It was never about Israel.  It has always been about Jews )


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ( It was never about Israel.  It has always been about Jews )


Intifada means to shake off.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Intifada means to shake off.


Have them shake off Islamic hatred of Jews and move on with their lives.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Deadly rocket and mortar fire on Israeli towns by Palestinian terror groups during May’s conflict in Gaza constituted war crimes, Human Rights Watch charged Thursday.

The New York-based rights group analyzed attacks from Gaza that resulted in the deaths of 13 people in Israel, including a 5-year-old boy and a 16-year-old girl, and injuries to dozens more.

Rockets that misfired or fell short also killed or wounded “an undetermined number of Palestinians in Gaza,” the group said. Of the over 4,360 unguided rockets and mortar shells fired toward Israeli population centers between May 10 and 21, approximately 680 failed and fell short in the Gaza Strip, according to the Israel Defense Forces.

(full article online)









						HRW: Gaza groups committed war crimes, killed Palestinians with failed launches
					

Rights group condemns Hamas for attacks on Israeli civilian areas during May conflict, confirms some rockets killed Gazans when falling short in northern section of coastal enclave




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Halting welfare payments to the Islamic terrorists is a strategy that could have been used decades ago. 

II don't see UNRWA doing anything to stop their facilities being used to further islamic terrorism. Hamas has repeatedly been identified as using UNRWA schools for munitions storage and there is never any action taken prevent further violations.










						Freeze UNRWA funds to Gaza schools over Hamas attack tunnels, Erdan urges
					

At issue were two Hamas tunnels found in the proximity of two UNRWA schools this summer in the aftermath of the 11-Day Gaza war in May.




					www.jpost.com
				




UN funding to United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) schools in Gaza must be frozen as long as Hamas refuses to allow international inspection of the attack tunnels found underneath those educational institutions, Israel’s Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan said on Wednesday.

The UN “cannot allow its own schools and buildings to be used as a sanctuary for terrorists and terror activity,” Erdan said in a letter to UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Intifada means to shake off.



Playing semantics with Jihad?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Playing semantics with Jihad?


Jihad means struggle.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Jihad means struggle



Hamas needs a better propaganda mouthpiece.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Jihad means struggle.



And how do Jihadis say 72 virgins?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Miscellaneous
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Some words have a *denotative (*literal) meaning →  and →  some words have a *connotative* (shades of meaning, such as emotions) meaning.



rylah said:


> Playing semantics with Jihad?





P F Tinmore said:


> Jihad means struggle.


*(CHUCKLE)*

Jihad has a translated meaning, a *denotative meaning, and a connotative meaning.*​​Where I come from, the word "jihad" was associated almost exclusively "Arab Terrorism" or "Arab Offensive" Operations.​​Where I come from the word "intifada" was used as a noun to describe an asymmetric uprising by hostile Arab Palestinian entities.​
In fact, I have never heard these words use in a real-world context that did not have a negative connotation (except in an educational setting).

Islamic Jihad does not sell cookies.​​Jihadist activities are not square dances.​​The First Intifada, the Second Intifada, and upcoming Third Intifada do not refer to a period of calisthenics where the Instructor tells you to "shake it off" after a grueling set.  It means uprisings; specifically Arab Palestinian uprisings.​​I don't think that the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade; Al-Aqsa e.V. Hamas, including Hamas-Izz ad-Din al-Qassam; Palestine Liberation Front; Palestinian Islamic Jihad; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP); PFLP-GC (General- Command) operate "dude ranches."​​
A Third Intifada Is Unlikely, but Hamas Is Trying to Start One​Jerusalem is a powder keg, but the shift of the focus to Gaza reduces the prospects of unity against Israel.​​






_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Miscellaneous
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Some words have a *denotative (*literal) meaning →  and →  some words have a *connotative* (shades of meaning, such as emotions) meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CHUCKLE)*
> 
> Jihad has a translated meaning, a *denotative meaning, and a connotative meaning.*​
> ​Where I come from, the word "jihad" was associated almost exclusively "Arab Terrorism" or "Arab Offensive" Operations.​​Where I come from the word "intifada" was used as a noun to describe an asymmetric uprising by hostile Arab Palestinian entities.​
> In fact, I have never heard these words use in a real-world context that did not have a negative connotation (except in an educational setting).
> 
> Islamic Jihad does not sell cookies.​​Jihadist activities are not square dances.​​The First Intifada, the Second Intifada, and upcoming Third Intifada do not refer to a period of calisthenics where the Instructor tells you to "shake it off" after a grueling set.  It means uprisings; specifically Arab Palestinian uprisings.​​I don't think that the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade; Al-Aqsa e.V. Hamas, including Hamas-Izz ad-Din al-Qassam; Palestine Liberation Front; Palestinian Islamic Jihad; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP); PFLP-GC (General- Command) operate "dude ranches."​​
> ​A Third Intifada Is Unlikely, but Hamas Is Trying to Start One​
> ​Jerusalem is a powder keg, but the shift of the focus to Gaza reduces the prospects of unity against Israel.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_





RoccoR said:


> In fact, I have never heard these words use in a real-world context that did not have a negative connotation (except in an educational setting).


Indeed, you use the propaganda version.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, you use the propaganda version.



The Jihadists own propaganda version?


----------



## Hollie

Not to worry. The UN isn't about to step in the way of islamic terroists.











						Hamas prevents UN team from working near terror tunnel by UNRWA school
					

UN experts arrived at a Gaza UNRWA school to check for unexploded munitions — but were stopped by Hamas due to proximity to a tunnel.




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas prevented a UN team of experts from working near a tunnel that was found in May near one of the schools run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), KAN News reported on Tuesday.

The UNRWA Zaitoun Preparatory Boys’ School “A” and Elementary Boys’ School “A” was one of two of the organization’s facilities damaged during the 11-day Gaza war that ended on May 21.

As soon as Hamas learned that the team was at the school, police arrived at the scene and requested that the team leave immediately. The team subsequently canceled its plans for an additional examination at a school in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip where a tunnel was also suspected to have been dug under a UNRWA school, according to KAN.


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> The Jihadists own propaganda version?


Indeed. I suspect Hamas was pointing and laughing at P F Tinmore when they read him the Wiki version of gee-had and sent him off to proselytize.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

RoccoR said:


> "dude ranches."



If Arafat had it to do it all over, he would operate a dude ranch.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and HRW, in perfect sync.

What about the rockets that HRW said were war crimes? Hamas mostly ignored that, and addresses the issue obliquely:




> The group stressed the inherent right of our people to defend themselves and their sanctities, and to resist occupation by all available means, including armed resistance, which is guaranteed by international laws.


This is Hamas' excuse for terror - one that HRW didn't take issue with.


> It indicated that the resistance, in its defense of our people and the response to aggression, only targeted Israeli military gatherings and targets. However, the Palestinian resistance affirms taking all necessary measures and precautions to avoid targeting civilians wherever they are.
> 
> She pointed to the resistance's constant keenness to develop its capabilities to enable it to target only Israeli military headquarters and activities, stressing that the occupying power systematically uses civilians as human shields, as it builds its security and military headquarters inside cities near schools, hospitals and civilian airports.



Guess who tweeted that absurd accusation?

Yes - it was Ken Roth, HRW's head!



			https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pc-o8YJ0YHA/YRVf7mWVIcI/AAAAAAABmRk/YTys1wh5rZYbBDO869rRkc3D9gcK2oREgCLcBGAsYHQ/s641/roth%2Bart.jpg
		


(full article online)









						Hamas loves Human Rights Watch. And the feeling is mutual.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Podcast: How a Kuwaiti Muslim now lives in Jerusalem as a Jewish Israeli citizen
					

His father was a colleague of Yasser Arafat. His mother was born into a British Mandate marriage between a Jew and a Muslim. Hear how Mark Halawa recently became an Israeli citizen




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

It's that lovely idea Islamism knows no passage of time and the social mores are enforced with high explosives. 











						Gaza resort attacked for holding mixed-gender concert
					

A group of masked men bombed a tourist resort in the Gaza Strip for holding a concert for both men and women, which raises questions on whether fundamentalists are once again gaining the upper hand in the coastal enclave.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Five unknown individuals attacked Aug. 5 a tourist resort in the northern Gaza Strip with an explosive device, causing part of the wall surrounding the seaside tourist site to collapse. There were no casualties. The attackers wanted to prevent the holding of a mixed-gender concert.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas arrests man for posting video of his wife swimming nude
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas arrests man for posting video of his wife swimming nude
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Does she look like Yasser Arafat?


----------



## Sinajuavi

Sixties Fan said:


> Remember in June when the Palestinian Authority broke a deal with Israel to accept Covid vaccines because, they claimed, the vaccines were too close to expiration? (Even though the PA says it has the infrastructure to give 50,000 doses a day, and therefore had plenty of time to use them all?)
> 
> Well, another month has come and gone, and the Palestinian Authority still didn't negotiate with Israel another deal to use the vaccines that would expire at the end of July.
> 
> As a result, according to Israeli media, Israel was forced to discard tens of thousands of doses of Pfizer vaccine, worth some 6 million shekels.
> 
> These doses could have gone to Palestinians. And none of the organizations and individuals who were in the forefront of blaming Israel for the Palestinian vaccine shortage are saying a word of reproach to the PA.
> 
> The excuse that the vaccines were close to expiration cannot be used, even though that was not an excuse to begin with. So Israel's critics are not saying a word, since it is clear that the Palestinian Authority doesn't really want the vaccines all that badly.
> 
> In fact, in Gaza, the health authorities are scrambling to use up the shots they have, with a population that doesn't want them.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel forced to discard tens of thousands of vaccines that the Palestinian Authority refused
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Soon the dupes of Arabonazi propaganda will be claiming Israel committed genocide against "Palestinians" by withholding COVID vaccines...

No matter HOW it goes down, the Jews are guilty of it... no matter what!


----------



## Sinajuavi

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Does she look like Yasser Arafat?


Your response to this issue is racism against Arabs? Me, I'm very pro-Israel, but I am not anti-Arab therefore, whereas you just seem to be an all-round bigot. Typical Trumpoid Republiscum.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sinajuavi said:


> Your response to this issue is racism against Arabs?



She's ugly because she's Arab?


----------



## Sinajuavi

Hollie said:


> Israeli Tourists Greeted By Traditional Musicians As The First Israeli Plane Lands In Marrakesh, Morocco
> 
> 
> The first Israeli airplane to land in Marrakesh, Morocco was greeted by a band playing traditional Moroccan music. In a ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Tourists Greeted By Traditional Musicians As The First Israeli Plane Lands In Marrakesh, Morocco​#8995 | 02:15
> *Source:* The Internet - "Hespress (Morocco)"
> _The first Israeli airplane to land in Marrakesh, Morocco was greeted by a band playing traditional Moroccan music. In a report posted on Hespress on YouTube on July 25, 2021, a woman at the airport said that Moroccans have been waiting a long time for this, and they had hoped for and wanted this relationship. She thanked everyone who "took part in this step (towards) peace." She further said that the King of Morocco strives "to gather all his Moroccan children together." She said: "May Allah bless you. This is your country. Welcome, my brothers and sisters." An Israeli passenger said that this is a good thing that will support tourism between Israel and Morocco._



It is rather amusing to see the Arab interviewer having a fit. He has to repeatedly say "The Arab Maghreb" as if he's trying to convince himself that Arab imperialist occupation of Morocco is right or normal.


----------



## Sinajuavi

Toddsterpatriot said:


> She's ugly because she's Arab?


I don't know... are you stupid because you're white?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sinajuavi said:


> I don't know... are you stupid because you're white?



Does she look like Yasser Arafat?


----------



## Hollie

The Iranians, who want both dead Jews and dead Sunnis, hosted Pally terrorists who are expected to perform some world class bending and scraping before the robed Mullocrats. 












						Raisi hosts Palestinian terror chiefs, vows to keep cause at top of agenda
					

In meetings with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP leaders during first full day in office, new Iranian president praises their 'victory' over Israel in May's Gaza conflict




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Newly inaugurated Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi met with the leaders of several Palestinian terror groups during his first full day in office on Friday, using the opportunity to pledge allegiance to the cause of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Looks a typical Jihad rape victim...









						Hamas court says women need a male guardian's approval to travel
					

A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> Looks a typical Jihad rape victim...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas court says women need a male guardian's approval to travel
> 
> 
> A Hamas-run Islamic court in the Gaza Strip has ruled that women require the permission of a male guardian to travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com


A societal structure as envisioned by the more excitable of the Pallys would drag the female population back into the 7th century.


----------



## Hollie

*What says ''Islamic Hell hole'' better than ''honour'' killings.*​​Violence against women and girls​





						Palestine (State of) Archives
					

Every year, Amnesty International evaluates the human rights situation in countries around the world. Stay up to date and learn about key human rights issues in Palestine (State of)




					www.amnesty.org
				




 Women and girls faced discrimination in law and practice and were inadequately protected against sexual and other gender-based violence, including so-called honour killings. Nineteen women died in the West Bank and 18 in Gaza as a result of gender-based violence, according to the Women's Center for Legal Aid and Counselling (WCLAC).

On 28 July, Razan Moqbel was killed near the Beitunia industrial zone, west of Ramallah. Security forces arrested her fiancé the next day and the case was referred to the Public Prosecution to carry out an investigation. On 3 August, the two families reached an agreement to drop the case in exchange for the family of her fiancé paying about NIS487,000 (approximately US$150,000). The Palestinian authorities did not comment about the agreement which sparked a public outcry at the use of tribal customs in a criminal case of femicide.


----------



## Hollie

There's an obvious mistake in believing an Islamic terrorist organization has either the ability or intention of administering a civil government. 











						Hamas’ Radical Ideology Runs Into the Grind of Daily Governance
					

Palestinian police officers loyal to Hamas march during a graduation ceremony in Gaza City, April 29, 2019. Photo: Reuters / …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Since taking control of the Gaza Strip through a violent coup in 2007, and expelling Fatah, Hamas has tried to be many things — a governing regime, a terrorist organization, an organized army, and an Islamist hard-line ideological symbol.

These efforts have seen Hamas’ radical ideology repeatedly collide with the “grind” of daily governance, and it is Gaza’s estimated 2 million residents who have paid the price.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The incident serves as a reminder of the fact that Hamas seized Gaza from Fatah in a deadly and brutal coup. Since doing so, rather than building new opportunities for Gazans, Hamas has busied itself by creating a rocket production industry, firing many thousands of projectiles at Israeli cities. It has built a terrorist army made up of 30,000 men, equipping them with a range of weapons, tunnels, and other means to attack Israel, while prioritizing its military force build-up over any civilian interest in Gaza.

Hamas’ efficiency in raising funds for its military and terrorist activities was placed in the spotlight this week, when an investigation by the German daily national newspaper Die Welt exposed a Hamas-owned corporate network, which is also active in Germany, worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

“This is how they finance terrorism,” Israel’s former representative to the UN, Danny Danon, tweeted on Wednesday, commenting on the report. “This is how its leaders get rich while the people of Gaza suffer,” he added. Danon called for sanctions to be imposed on all of the companies listed in the report.

The report joins a long list of examples of how Hamas prioritizes its terrorist activities over the civilian-economic needs of Gazan civilians.

(full article online)









						Hamas’ Radical Ideology Runs Into the Grind of Daily Governance
					

Palestinian police officers loyal to Hamas march during a graduation ceremony in Gaza City, April 29, 2019. Photo: Reuters / …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

"Mediating'' with islamic terrorists is largely a matter of extending a Hudna before the gee-gad attacks resume. Iran has intentions vastly different from those of Egypt, Qatar, etc.   The Iranian Mullahs will wait only so long before ordering their minions in Hamas to earn their Iranian welfare money,












						Mediators in bid to avert Hamas-Israel face-off
					

PA: No reconstruction before ending Fatah-Hamas dispute




					www.jpost.com
				




Egypt, Qatar, the United Nations and other international parties are making significant efforts to prevent another military confrontation between Israel and the Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Big Ben was stolen from Palestine. So claimed an elderly woman, in Arabic, in a retweeted clip I received recently.

Yes, that Big Ben: the great bell in the iconic clock tower of London’s Palace of Westminster. The British took it, she said, from a tower they demolished at Hebron Gate in Jerusalem in 1922.

I discovered (well, duh!) that the bell was cast at Whitechapel Bell Foundry in London and installed in the Palace of Westminster, with much pomp and circumstance, in 1858.

Next, I checked the Wikipedia entry on the clock tower at Hebron Gate in Jerusalem and discovered that it was not built until 1908 – a full half-century after Big Ben’s installation in London.

Next, I tracked down the Twitter account from which the clip had been forwarded. It belonged to a pro-Israel satirical site, TheMossadIL, which masquerades as the official Twitter feed of Israel’s secret service. 

But the clip hadn’t originated there – it had been reposted by that account as an object of ridicule. I noticed that the clip had a TikTok “watermark” – a stamp that appears automatically at the top and bottom of every downloaded TikTok video, comprising the TikTok logo and video creator’s username – which identified the clip’s author as @aliarisheq. So, that’s where I went next. 

The feed, seemingly curated by a young Arabic-speaking woman, contained additional clips featuring the woman in the Big Ben clip and advertisements for jewelry.

Using the View Page Source (Ctrl + U) function in my Chrome browser, I learned that the clip in question was uploaded at 17:12 on Dec. 19, 2019. The woman claiming that “Big Ben” was stolen in 1922 looked like she was in her 70s. To have witnessed the alleged theft, she would have to be a centenarian. So she wasn’t a witness: What we had here was an oral tradition, of which she was, at best, a second- or third-hand bearer. 

Protecting from pollution​All of which means that unless the many corroborating sources cited in Wikipedia’s Big Ben entry are an elaborate hoax of QAnon proportions, her claim doesn’t have a leg to stand on. 

Big Ben was not stolen from Palestine and has no place on lists of controversial cultural artifacts like the Parthenon Marbles that former colonial powers are being asked to return to their countries of origin.

(full article online)









						I went down the 'rabbit hole' to debunk misinformation – here's what I learned about Big Ben and online information overload
					

A tweet led a scholar to consider how misinformation is changing the ways we evaluate information and trust others.




					theconversation.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

MK Tibi had screamed and raged after a Golani soldier's hand touched his body during a patrol in Hebron last Saturday. Tibi later claimed that the soldier had deliberately touched him to provoke him and that all he did was remove the soldier's hand.

"MK Ahmad Tibi was violent towards an IDF soldier," said MK Struck. "I expect the Minister of Defense and the Prime Minister not to remain silent about the dignity of an IDF soldier and to file a criminal complaint against Ahmad Tibi for acting violently towards an IDF soldier."


MK Struck added: "The person who accompanied the Knesset members of the Joint List on their tour of Hebron is the mayor of Hebron. The mayor of Hebron is a convicted murderer. He himself murdered six Jews at the entrance to Beit Hadassah in 1980."


"He was caught, convicted, sat in jail for only two years and released in the Jibril deal. When he was elected mayor of Hebron he was elected on the basis of the fact that he boasted of this murder he committed. To this day he has not apologized; in fact, he continues to boast of this murder."


"Now that we are seeing the Knesset members of the Joint List walking together with this killer on the streets of Hebron, hugging him, helping him, glorifying him - I ask a simple question to coalition chairman MK Idit Silman: These are the people you are going to cooperate with in passing the budget?" MK Struck concluded.

(full article online)









						MK Orit Struck calls for investigation into MK Tibi for violence against IDF soldier
					

Arab MK reacts violently to soldier during tour of Hebron; Tibi claims soldier was trying to provoke him.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The incident serves as a reminder of the fact that Hamas seized Gaza from Fatah in a deadly and brutal coup.


More Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> More Israeli bullshit.


I know, you were not there and if you did not witness it, it did not happen.


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


>



Sixties look who is laughing,
our forum's main  'not-antisemite'...

Now tell me, are these Nazi rats raising to 'globalize intifada' against your community?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Suitcases full of cash is the demand by Hamas. That Qatari cash is a real prize when it gets deposited into personal bank accounts. The Hamas leadership tend to be millionaires and billionaires for a reason. Islamic terrorism can be a money-maker when you're given suitcases full of cash. 











						Report: Hamas Threatens Hostilities Unless It Gets Qatari Cash
					

Palestinians burn tires to throw over the Gaza border into Israel on May 4, 2018, as part of weekly riots …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




_JNS.org_ – Hamas is threatening to renew violence against Israel unless it is granted access to Qatari funds in cash, Palestinian media reported over the weekend.

According to reports, the terrorist group controlling the Gaza Strip refuses to receive the funds via wire transfers and demands the funds be transferred as they have been to date — in cash-stuffed suitcases.


----------



## Hollie

Looks like the early retirement brand of martyrdom was delivered to islamic terrorists.











						4 terror suspects killed, 1 injured in gun battle with Israeli troops in Jenin
					

Border Police say troops came under 'heavy fire' as they entered the Palestinian city on an arrest raid; no Israeli soldiers injured




					www.google.com
				




Palestinian media reported that four people were killed in the exchange and a fifth was injured. No border guards were reported injured. At least three of the four people killed were identified as belonging to terrorist organizations, one from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and two from Fatah’s military wing, the al-Aqsa Martyr’s Brigades.


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Looks like the early retirement brand of martyrdom was delivered to islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 terror suspects killed, 1 injured in gun battle with Israeli troops in Jenin
> 
> 
> Border Police say troops came under 'heavy fire' as they entered the Palestinian city on an arrest raid; no Israeli soldiers injured
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that four people were killed in the exchange and a fifth was injured. No border guards were reported injured. At least three of the four people killed were identified as belonging to terrorist organizations, one from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and two from Fatah’s military wing, the al-Aqsa Martyr’s Brigades.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tweeting in both Arabic and English, he wrote, "The Taliban are victorious today after being accused of backwardness & terrorism. it became more pragmatic. They have stood up to the US & its agents refusing compromise, they have not been fooled by slogans like democracy & elections.
This is a lesson for all oppressed peoples."

Hamas' Ismail Haniyeh met with a Taliban delegation in the past couple of months,probably in Qatar.

A Fatah news site aligned with Abbas rival Mohammed Dahlan says that Hamas' praise of the Taliban is shortsighted - not because they are bloodthirsty Islamists, but because they never helped the Palestinian cause.

(full article online)









						Hamas praises the Taliban (UPDATE)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The suspicious Arab in IDF uniform
Twitter

At noon on Monday, IDF soldiers from the Kfir Brigade arrested a Palestinian Arab dressed in an IDF uniform and in possession of a bag containing a shotgun and a knife, near the community of Ma'ale Levona in Binyamin.
According to a spokesman from the Binyamin Regional Council, "Residents who spotted the terrorist on the side of the road called the security hotline, which reported directly to the army. Soldiers were then rushed to the scene where they captured the terrorist who was found to have both weapons and ammunition in his possession."

(full article online)









						PA Arab dressed in IDF uniform arrested in Binyamin region
					

Residents noticed suspicious person in IDF uniform and reported him. He was found in possession of a shotgun & knife.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the response might seem surprising, it echoes directly the Palestinian Authority’s messages and education. When the PA honors and rewards Palestinian terrorist murderers, as Palestinian Media Watch has documented repeatedly, and Mahmoud Abbas’ advisor tells viewers of official PA TV all the reasons Islam mandates fighting and killing Israelis, it should not be surprising that a Palestinian Facebook page promotes burning Jews alive.

The effigy that was burned, which equated Israel with Nazis, should not be surprising either.

So far this year Palestinian Media Watch has uncovered 16 separate instances of Palestinian official sources comparing Israel to a Nazi state, or accusing Israel of waging a Holocaust against the Palestinians. This amounts to libel against Israel and the Israeli people and is clear incitement to violence against innocent Israelis. 

Among them was this cartoon of Benjamin Netanyahu depicted as Hitler:

(full article online)









						“We want to burn you alive. That is all we are working for” – message from Palestinians who burned swastika/Star of David effigy to Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

When challenged, organizers replied: “Yes, we want to burn you (plural -Ed.) alive. That is all we are working for.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Poor Hamas. 

They're relegated to Taliban wannabes. 










						Hamas Applauds Taliban Takeover - Hamodia.com
					

While the rest of the world recoiled in shock and horror at the lightning-fast Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, Hamas has welcomed the news. “We




					hamodia.com
				




*YERUSHALAYIM *-
While the rest of the world recoiled in shock and horror at the lightning-fast Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, Hamas has welcomed the news.

“We congratulate the Muslim Afghan people for the defeat of the American occupation on all Afghan lands, and we congratulate the Taliban movement and its brave leadership on this victory, which came as the culmination of its long struggle over the past 20 years,” Hamas said in a statement on Monday.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas has long been known to be an islamic terrorist franchise with astonishing wealth and the numbers are jaw-dropping. 

Decades of international financing has made many millionaires and billionaires of these crooks.











						As Media Berate Israel, Hamas Reportedly Hiding Enough Funds to Fully Rebuild Gaza Strip | Honest Reporting
					

AP and other outlets are again attributing blame to Israel for an escalation that Palestinian terrorists have been warning about for weeks.




					honestreporting.com
				




Leading German daily Die Welt has published an expose on Hamas’ secret foreign investment portfolio. According to documents obtained by the newspaper from Western intelligence sources, the US-designated terror group holds interests in some 40 international companies in the Middle East and North Africa, with an estimated value exceeding $500 million.

“For years there were rumours about such a portfolio, which seem to be corroborated now by information found on a Hamas computer,” Clemens Wergin, Die Welt’s chief correspondent, noted on Twitter. “The balance sheet also contains coded references about 49 Million US Dollars that went from the portfolio into Hamas’ coffers, an estimated 40% of which went to military/terror expenses.”


----------



## Hollie

And we keep financing islamic terrorists despite their revulsion for everything we are. 










						Hamas praises Taliban for causing American ‘downfall’ in Afghanistan
					

Senior official in terror group lauds Afghan Islamists for rejecting US 'compromises,' democracy, and elections; PLO official in Ramallah condemns 'dark and brutal' Taliban




					www.google.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hebrew media reports said IDF intelligence learned earlier this year that Shmalach has been helping Iran funnel millions of dollars to Hamas through his companies, prompting Israel to designate the two businesses as terror organizations.

Because of the Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza and sanctions, Hamas is increasingly taking control of imports to the Strip, including food, to resell. The terror group is reported to have an extensive network for seizing and reselling food imports.

Hamas has been pinched financially since an 11-day confrontation with Israel in May. Gaza terror groups fired more than 3,440 rockets and missiles at Israel, prompting Israeli air strikes on Hamas positions. Since the crisis, Israel has not allowed Qatar to transfer funds to to Gaza. Hamas has threatened to renew rocket fire if the money isn’t transferred.

(full article online)









						Israel Seizes 23 Tons of Chocolate Intended to Bankroll Hamas | United with Israel
					

Hamas is increasingly taking control of imports to the Gaza Strip, including food.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Four Pally's from a smorgasbord of variously named islamic terrorist franchises rode the gee-had train to its last stop. 












						Inconvenient Facts: Media Reports Obscure Reality That Killed Palestinians Were Terrorists | Honest Reporting
					

This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense, they fought




					honestreporting.com
				




This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense, they fought back and killed four of the Palestinian assailants. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah’s Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade later confirmed that the dead were members of their respective organizations.

Despite the Palestinians themselves acknowledging the connections of the “martyrs” with terror groups, Palestinian officials were quick to point an accusing finger at Israel, describing the incident as a “massacre” and employing other strikingly incendiary terms. The Times of Israel reported that Akram Rajoub, the governor of Jenin, told the official Palestinian Authority broadcasting station, “This was a massacre perpetrated by the Israeli occupation. All the accounts disseminated by the occupation are falsehoods.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Four Pally's from a smorgasbord of variously named islamic terrorist franchises rode the gee-had train to its last stop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inconvenient Facts: Media Reports Obscure Reality That Killed Palestinians Were Terrorists | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense, they fought
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense, they fought back and killed four of the Palestinian assailants. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah’s Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade later confirmed that the dead were members of their respective organizations.
> 
> Despite the Palestinians themselves acknowledging the connections of the “martyrs” with terror groups, Palestinian officials were quick to point an accusing finger at Israel, describing the incident as a “massacre” and employing other strikingly incendiary terms. The Times of Israel reported that Akram Rajoub, the governor of Jenin, told the official Palestinian Authority broadcasting station, “This was a massacre perpetrated by the Israeli occupation. All the accounts disseminated by the occupation are falsehoods.”





Hollie said:


> This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense,


Israel attacks and claims self defense.

What a bunch of dumbfucks!

IDF-Israeli Doofus Force.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel attacks and claims self defense.
> 
> What a bunch of dumbfucks!
> 
> IDF-Israeli Doofus Force.


What attack?  

Link?


----------



## Hollie

Race hustler and money grubber. 











						'Squad' Member Rashida Tlaib Made Thousands in Rental Income Despite Advocating for Cancelling Rent
					

Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) received thousands of dollars in rental payments in 2020 while also calling for the federal government to cancel rent for Americans unable to pay because of




					townhall.com
				




Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) received thousands of dollars in rental payments in 2020 while also calling for the federal government to cancel rent for Americans unable to pay because of the coronavirus pandemic.


----------



## Hollie

Looks like a potentially deadly gee-had attack was prevented. 












						IDF Captures Armed Palestinian Disguised in ‘Full Uniform’ as Israeli Soldier
					

Israeli soldiers take position during clashes with Palestinians in Hebron in the West Bank, Sept. 28, 2018. Photo: Reuters / …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




J_NS.org_ – Israel Defense Forces soldiers captured an armed Palestinian disguised as an Israeli soldier on Monday.

The IDF said in a statement that the suspect was “wearing a full IDF uniform,” adding that he was apprehended adjacent to the community of Sinjil, northeast of Ramallah, in the West Bank


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What attack?
> 
> Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did you know (rhetorical question), that I fully expected your usual duck, dance and dive with silly emoticons?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip suffer from one of the highest levels of poverty and unemployment in the world. It is a human rights tragedy for the 1.8 million residents of the coastal enclave. But while international nongovernmental organizations and media outlets frequently point the finger at Israel, in reality, it is Hamas, the terrorist group which runs Gaza, which is wholly responsible.

Hamas actively steals hundreds of millions of dollars each year from its own people, and enriches its senior leadership as a result. But Hamas continues to get a free pass from much of the world, despite its open thievery.

In this episode of the Honest Report podcast, we discuss how Hamas learned the best practices of stealing from its own people, and how it continues to rake in so much money every single year as a result of its malfeasance. Its own leader, Ismail Haniyeh, is the epitome of the corruption that Hamas practices on a daily basis.

(full article online)









						Hamas' Economic War Against Its Own People: The Honest Report Podcast – Episode 20
					

Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip suffer from one of the highest levels of poverty and unemployment in the world.




					honestreporting.ca


----------



## Sixties Fan

Leading German daily Die Welt has published an expose on Hamas’ secret foreign investment portfolio. According to documents obtained by the newspaper from Western intelligence sources, the US-designated terror group holds interests in some 40 international companies in the Middle East and North Africa, with an estimated value exceeding $500 million.

“For years there were rumours about such a portfolio, which seem to be corroborated now by information found on a Hamas computer,” Clemens Wergin, Die Welt’s chief correspondent, noted on Twitter. “The balance sheet also contains coded references about 49 Million US Dollars that went from the portfolio into Hamas’ coffers, an estimated 40% of which went to military/terror expenses.”

According to Israeli data, this $49 million alone is enough to build 1,405 homes, 310 medical clinics, 114 mosques or 98 schools in the Gaza Strip. This would, needless to say, go a long way to reconstructing the enclave in the wake of May’s 11-day Hamas-initiated conflict with Israel. More broadly, the alleged $500 million Hamas has stashed away would be sufficient to, according to the World Bank, repair all physical damage incurred during the war as well as make up for the resulting economic losses.

(full article online)









						As Media Berate Israel, Hamas Reportedly Hiding Enough Funds to Fully Rebuild Gaza Strip | Honest Reporting
					

AP and other outlets are again attributing blame to Israel for an escalation that Palestinian terrorists have been warning about for weeks.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Attorney Lamis Deek Palestinian Attorney and Human Rights Advocate, Co-founder,  Al-Awda: the Palestinian Right to Return Coalition


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Shia wannabe seems to think that the Iranian proxy terrorists in Lebanon are prepared to wage a war against Israel for some unspecified reason. That seems unlikely as the IDF could quickly ramp up devastating air and artillery barrages.​​​​Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh: Hamas Has a Strategic Relationship with Iran, Hizbullah​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!'​


----------



## Hollie

Another silly islamic terrorist fashion parade. I suppose with a gaggle of child soldiers fresh out of the Hamas Hitler Youth style summer gee-had camp there will be sacrificial breeding products to push toward the israeli border.










						Gaza terror groups threaten ‘escalation’ as progress reported in Qatari aid deal
					

Palestinians to protest Saturday near border fence with Israel, despite apparent advances in ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Gaza terror groups threaten ‘escalation’ as progress reported in Qatari aid deal​
Palestinians to protest Saturday near border fence with Israel, despite apparent advances in ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas​By AARON BOXERMAN19 August 2021, 1:50 am


----------



## P F Tinmore

Young Terror Promoter Janna Jihad Interviews Rep. Rashida Tlaib​


----------



## Hollie

The following seems to confirm what Hamas has been doing over the last several months. The Hudna is scaled back in incremental steps as the Islamic terrorist attacks gradually become more brazen.

Islamic terrorist franchises are fueled by money and Qatari suitcases of welfare cash keep the money flowing to bank accounts of the islamic terrorist kingpins and their minions who are pushed into the libe if fire.

Gaza's terror factions taking on strategy of gradual escalation

*Gaza's terror factions taking on strategy of gradual escalation*​*Analysis: The groups, led by Hamas, agree to resume border protests and incendiary balloons in a bid to pressure Israel and the UN to resolve the longstanding issue of transferring money from Qatari for rehabilitation of Gaza after May war*​
​


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Miscellaneous
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: It is great to see that Tamim had found some employment.  I guess she really can stretch her 15 Minutes of fame as a Juvenile Delinquent.



Hollie said:


> *Gaza's terror factions taking on strategy of gradual escalation*​*Analysis: The groups, led by Hamas, agree to resume border protests and incendiary balloons in a bid to pressure Israel and the UN to resolve the longstanding issue of transferring money from Qatari for rehabilitation of Gaza after May war*​


*(COMMENT)*

It is getting hard to figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.






_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA volunteered to help, and Israel accepted. They sent four firetrucks and 20 firefighters to help control the blaze. 

Now, Palestinians are complaining about their leaders approving doing something humanitarian for Jews.

Social media in Arabic had many posts against the Palestinians helping Israel. 

Many of them pointed out that this happened on the same day that Israeli forces killed four armed terrorists in Jenin.Journalist Ibrahim Moqbel said on his Facebook page, "The occupation killed 4 and we sent them 4 fire engines. This is the national project in the religion of Abbas!"

 Journalist Alaa al-Rimawi tweeted, "The Minister of Defense of the occupation, responsible for destroying Gaza a few months ago, thanks the Palestinian Authority and the President for sending the Palestinian Civil Defense to participate in putting out the fires in Jerusalem."

One other referred to the Algerian wildfires which Morocco offered to help fight and Algeria refused, saying, "A sad short story. Morocco offers to help Algeria to put out its fires, but the latter refuses, on the pretext that Morocco is allied with Israel. Massive fires erupt in the mountains of Jerusalem, and the Palestinian Authority offers assistance to Israel to put them out, and the latter agrees.” She doesn't seem to be saying that algeria was wrong or stubborn to refuse Moroccan help.

(full article online)









						Palestinians upset that their firefighters helped Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It must be infuriating for the Pally islamic terrorist franchises to be kept waiting for their suitcases of Qatari welfare money. 










						Israel tags Hamas as 'real enemy' of Gazans as Qatari aid remains cut off
					

Prime Minister Naftali Bennett tours the border with Gaza; Israel continues to seek guarantees that Hamas will not use money Qatar has targeted for poor Gazans for military activities.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and Defense Minister Benny Gantz toured the environs of the Israel-Gaza border Aug. 17. They met with Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers serving in that sector, visited the Gaza border division's command room and toured the Iron Dome missile defense system located nearby. The tour took place a day after Israel’s southern town of Sderot was targeted by two rockets fired from the Gaza Strip — the first incident of its kind since the May 10-21 conflict. One rocket was intercepted by the Iron Dome system; the other did not cross into Israel.


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Qatari welfare money will be getting to the islamic terrorists in Gaza. With an open acknowledgement that Hamas steals a significant portion of the welfare cash, this will be another windfall for the islamic terrorists allowing them to stuff their bank accounts.












						Deal reached for Qatari cash to Gaza ahead of Bennett-Biden parley
					

The United Nations and Qatar signed a deal for the resumption of Qatari cash payments to needy families in Gaza.




					www.google.com
				




The United Nations and Qatar signed an agreement for the resumption of Qatari cash payments to needy families in Gaza in a move that reduces the possibilities of another all-out war between Israel and Hamas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

An NGO called the "Association 302 to Defend Refugees Rights" condemned the US conditions on aid to UNRWA, including the condition that UNRWA should adhere to its own mandate of impartiality and UN principles.

The organization said that these measures will ultimately lead to restrictions on the UNRWA definition of refugee, presumably to bring it in line with the UN definition. 

It  said that if the US must approve UNRWA Palestinian school curricula, it is "stripping the Palestinian curricula of any contents seen as discriminatory or inciting against the Israeli occupation, such as referring to historical Palestine."

Judging from what I've seen in their curricula, that isn't the issue. 

Another NGO, the Democratic Gathering of UNRWA workers, the trade union of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, terror group, condemned UNRWA supposedly punishing workers who post incitement on their social media, saying that this is a violation of freedom of speech.

It is normal for Western corporations to prohibit employees from engaging in controversial topics on social media when they can be identified as being employees of that company. It isn't stopping freedom of speech.









						Palestinian NGOs protest US demands that UNRWA be unbiased
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist ''day of rage'' is approaching. Hamas will supply the party hats, Swastikas, balloons and all the disposable youngsters they can find.  











						Report: IDF Gears Up for Palestinian ‘Day of Rage’ Along Gaza Border
					

Palestinian terrorists participate in an anti-Israel rally in Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip, on Feb. 17, 2020. Photo: …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Report: IDF Gears Up for Palestinian ‘Day of Rage’ Along Gaza Border​




_JNS.org_ – Israel has begun reinforcing its military presence along the southern border, ahead of the “Day of Rage” planned for Saturday by Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip, _Kan_ news reported on Thursday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> An NGO called the "Association 302 to Defend Refugees Rights" condemned the US conditions on aid to UNRWA, including the condition that UNRWA should adhere to its own mandate of impartiality and UN principles.
> 
> The organization said that these measures will ultimately lead to restrictions on the UNRWA definition of refugee, presumably to bring it in line with the UN definition.
> 
> It  said that if the US must approve UNRWA Palestinian school curricula, it is "stripping the Palestinian curricula of any contents seen as discriminatory or inciting against the Israeli occupation, such as referring to historical Palestine."
> 
> Judging from what I've seen in their curricula, that isn't the issue.
> 
> Another NGO, the Democratic Gathering of UNRWA workers, the trade union of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, terror group, condemned UNRWA supposedly punishing workers who post incitement on their social media, saying that this is a violation of freedom of speech.
> 
> It is normal for Western corporations to prohibit employees from engaging in controversial topics on social media when they can be identified as being employees of that company. It isn't stopping freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian NGOs protest US demands that UNRWA be unbiased
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


The Palestinians reject having the Zionist narrative being taught in their schools.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians reject having the Zionist narrative being taught in their schools.


They want the Taliban narrative.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Why would anyone want more Islamic terrorist supporters?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Why would anyone want more Islamic terrorist supporters?



Because they want more Islamic terror.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> It said that if the US must approve UNRWA Palestinian school curricula, it is "stripping the Palestinian curricula of any contents seen as discriminatory or inciting against the Israeli occupation, such as referring to historical Palestine."


The truth is incitement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Why would anyone want more Islamic terrorist supporters?


Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl. Points for you.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the islamic terrorists graciously offered a representative loser from the major islamic terrorist franchises. 












						Inconvenient Facts: Media Reports Obscure Reality That Killed Palestinians Were Terrorists | Honest Reporting
					

This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense, they fought




					honestreporting.com
				




This week, Israeli forces entering the city of Jenin on an undercover mission to apprehend terror suspects came under fire. In self-defense, they fought back and killed four of the Palestinian assailants. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah’s Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade later confirmed that the dead were members of their respective organizations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Oooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl. Points for you.


Would it be helpful if I assisted with gathering some new cut and paste slogans for you?

It is now a decade of your worn, tired, cutting and pasting.


----------



## Hollie

The Emir of Mahmoud'istan seems to playing a game with the competing Emir in Sinwar'istan. The PA is not going to endorse reconstruction of the territories occupied by the islamic terrorist franchise until the two, competing franchises resolve their differences.

That is really just a mechanism for both sides to hoarde their welfare money. The islamic terrorist franchises have spent nearly two decades competing with each other for control of massive welfare wealth both sides have accumulated. 












						Mediators in bid to avert Hamas-Israel face-off
					

PA: No reconstruction before ending Fatah-Hamas dispute




					www.jpost.com
				




PA: No reconstruction before ending Fatah-Hamas dispute​By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
AUGUST 14, 2021 16:28


----------



## Sixties Fan

A 28-year-old woman was shot dead Friday night while driving in the central town of Ramle, the 71st Arab Israeli to be killed this year as a result of the violence that continues to plague the community.

Police suspect that the woman, identified as Lorin Musrati, was targeted by the family of her late husband — who was also gunned down in 2015. They opposed the victim’s decision to leave the city of Ramle with her children in order to move to Haifa after her husband was killed, the Haaretz daily reported, adding that law enforcement was also looking into other motives for the attack.

Police believe the suspect drove past the victim’s vehicle, fired at her and fled.

(full article online)









						Woman shot dead while driving in Ramle, 3 other shootings in Arab communities
					

Police believe 28-year-old victim targeted by family of slain husband in dispute over moving out of city with her children; 71st Arab Israeli killed in 2021




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

With a fresh crop of disposable pre-teen dead martyrs walkin', Hamas wants more concessions.... of else the kid gets it. 

Give the kid a koran and an Islamic terrorist script about the evil Jews and you have some propaganda points. 












						Hamas: Cash aid deal good, but insufficient
					

Gaza factions vow to continue fight to lift "siege"




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas: Cash aid deal good, but insufficient​Gaza factions vow to continue fight to lift "siege"​By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
AUGUST 21, 2021 20:31





HAMAS SUPPORTERS attend an anti-Israel rally in the northern Gaza Strip on Sunday.
(photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/REUTERS)


The Qatari-United Nations agreement on the delivery of Qatari cash aid funds to the Gaza Strip, which was announced last week, is a positive though insufficient development, a source close to Hamas said on Saturday.


----------



## Hollie

Saturday fun day for islamic terrorists.... well, except for those whose gee-had didn't end well. 











						Soldier shot, critically hurt in Gaza border clash; 41 Palestinians injured
					

In video, assailant seen firing toward border guard at point-blank range, others try to snatch 2nd soldier's gun; Gaza rally was held despite Thursday deal to allow in Qatari funds




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Major clashes broke out along the Gaza border throughout Saturday, with one Palestinian assailant opening fire at an Israeli border guard from point-blank range, critically wounding him, Border Police said.

At least 41 rioters were injured by Israeli troops during the hostilities, two of them critically, according to the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry.

One of the critically hurt Gazans was a 13-year-old boy, Palestinian health officials said.


----------



## Hollie

Israel strikes after Gaza border clashes
					

Israel has launched air strikes against Hamas targets after a soldier was shot during border clashes with protesters that left over 40 Palestinians injured.




					thewest.com.au
				




Israel strikes after Gaza border clashes​Rami AyyubAAP
Sat, 21 August 2021 6:28PM








Gee-had. It's nature's way of telling you it's a Darwinian world.


----------



## Hollie

The impending exit of Abbas has been so for at least the last four years. Yet, his Emir'ship rolls on. 

There are lots of scenarios to explore with his eventual retirement but given the nature of typical islamist dictatordhips, the dictator who succeeds him will likely be just another dictator. 













						A look at the impending political turmoil after Abbas | PMW Analysis
					

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is almost 86. He is now in the 17th year of his first four-year term as PA Chairman. In addition to being PA Chairman, Abbas is also the head of the PLO and the Fatah faction




					palwatch.org
				




A look at the impending political turmoil after Abbas​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Aug 22, 2021

*PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is almost 86. He is now in the 17th year of his first four-year term as PA Chairman. In addition to being PA Chairman, Abbas is also the head of the PLO and the Fatah faction.*​
*In theory, after Abbas, the PA will need to hold elections to decide who will lead the organization.*​
*Palestinian opinion polls show that the leading candidate to replace Abbas is Marwan Barghouti, a terrorist convicted for his part in the murder of five people, who is currently serving five consecutive life sentences in an Israeli prison.*​
*In general elections, Hamas, an internationally designated terror organization, would most probably win control of the PA.*​
*In the absence of any real democratic culture, it is quite possible that Abbas will be replaced by one of the other Fatah leaders vying to inherit his position.   *​


----------



## Hollie

IDF stepping up the pace in response to the attacks at its border.


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys use the people they kill and maim for propaganda purposes, 












						AFP Implies Gaza Youth Injured By Israeli Missile Even Though Seemingly Caused By Terrorist Rocket | Honest Reporting
					

"Eight-year-old Mohammed Shaban dreamed of returning to the classroom in Gaza for the start of the school year," an article by Agence France-Presse (AFP)




					honestreporting.com
				






> Palestinian armed groups’ rocket and mortar attacks during the May 2021 fighting in the Gaza Strip, which killed and injured civilians in Israel and Gaza, violated the laws of war and amount to war crimes.”


Among those injured? Apparently, Mohammed Shaban:



> A local shop owner said:
> People were gathering [on the street] watching the rockets in the sky. I saw a rocket spinning in the air and then it came down and exploded, about 10 meters from where I was standing. There was smoke. I saw the dead and injured. I couldn’t stand what I saw. I broke down.…* I saw a child, Mohammed Shaban, whose eyes were bleeding*….” _[_*emphasis added*_]_


In fact, halfway through its profile AFP even cites HRW as saying that, “Palestinians fired indiscriminately at Israeli cities, with rockets that fell short killing at least seven Palestinians in Gaza and wounding others.”




Alkahu akbar.... I guess. 

Based on this quote, one of the AFP editors or authors was undoubtedly aware that HRW had compiled reports on casualties in Gaza but nonetheless failed to include the findings about the cause of Shaban’s injury.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas might want to email Qatar about more suitcases full of welfare cash. 












						Israel bombs weapons sites in Gaza after border clashes
					

Fighter planes hit “four weapons and storage manufacturing sites,” Israel's army said.




					www.nbcnews.com
				




Israel bombs weapons sites in Gaza after border clashes​Fighter planes hit “four weapons and storage manufacturing sites,” Israel's army said.





Explosions lit up the night sky above buildings in Gaza City as Israeli forces shelled the Palestinian enclave, early Sunday.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Mahmoud Abbas will be 86 years old in November. It’s far from clear who will replace him, but what is almost certain is that his departure will precipitate instability as a number of prominent figures attempt to position themselves as his successor.

This makes both short and long term planning a near impossibility when it comes to the PA, the West Bank, and by extension Gaza. The problem is further compounded by the fact that Abbas holds not one but three key roles: Chairman of the PA; Head of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO); and Head of Fatah.

In this report we will take a look at each of these roles, and how the fight for successorship in each of them is likely to impact Palestinian politics.

(full article online)









						A look at the impending political turmoil after Abbas | PMW Analysis
					

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is almost 86. He is now in the 17th year of his first four-year term as PA Chairman. In addition to being PA Chairman, Abbas is also the head of the PLO and the Fatah faction




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority continues to arrest protesters, reportedly beating them and dragging them in the streets.

Another group of 15-20 people were arrested yesterday in Ramallah for intending to protest the murder by Palestinian police of Nizar Banat in June, as well as the continued imprisonment of those who had earlier been arrested for protesting  people who have remained in prison for nearly two months.

Palestinian groups have issued condemnations of the new batch of arrests.

Ironically, the reasons given for the arrests include "attacking public freedoms" along with "violating national symbols."

The Independent Commission for Human Rights says that the people arrested had requested permission to hold the protests

One of those arrested was Khader Adnan, the Islamic Jihad official who became famous a while ago for his hunger strike in protest of his administrative detention by Israel.

His wife ways that he was kidnapped by people in an unmarked car and taken away. No one knows where he, or the others arrested yesterday, are now. 

I don't think a hunger strike will help him in PA prison.

(full article online )









						Palestinian Authority arrests Islamic Jihad's Khader Adnan,  famous for his hunger strike against Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The impending exit of Abbas has been so for at least the last four years. Yet, his Emir'ship rolls on.
> 
> There are lots of scenarios to explore with his eventual retirement but given the nature of typical islamist dictatordhips, the dictator who succeeds him will likely be just another dictator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A look at the impending political turmoil after Abbas | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is almost 86. He is now in the 17th year of his first four-year term as PA Chairman. In addition to being PA Chairman, Abbas is also the head of the PLO and the Fatah faction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A look at the impending political turmoil after Abbas​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Aug 22, 2021
> 
> *PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is almost 86. He is now in the 17th year of his first four-year term as PA Chairman. In addition to being PA Chairman, Abbas is also the head of the PLO and the Fatah faction.*​
> *In theory, after Abbas, the PA will need to hold elections to decide who will lead the organization.*​
> *Palestinian opinion polls show that the leading candidate to replace Abbas is Marwan Barghouti, a terrorist convicted for his part in the murder of five people, who is currently serving five consecutive life sentences in an Israeli prison.*​
> *In general elections, Hamas, an internationally designated terror organization, would most probably win control of the PA.*​
> *In the absence of any real democratic culture, it is quite possible that Abbas will be replaced by one of the other Fatah leaders vying to inherit his position.   *​


The Palestinian Basic Law (constitution) calls for the speaker of parliament to temporarily take the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.

Of course this won't happen.

My guess is that the US/Israel are trying to find someone to install as we speak.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian Basic Law (constitution) calls for the speaker of parliament to temporarily take the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.
> 
> Of course this won't happen.
> 
> My guess is that the US/Israel are trying to find someone to install as we speak.


Your conspiray theroies are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Egyptians are going to protect their interests from Pally terrorism. 











						Egypt Closes Rafah Crossing With Gaza After Border Violence - The Media Line
					

Egypt will close the Rafah crossing with Gaza […]




					themedialine.org
				




Egypt will close the Rafah crossing with Gaza on Monday, according to reports citing both Egyptian security sources and Hamas, which runs the Gaza Strip. The border will be closed until further notice, Reuters reported.

Egypt says the decision to close the border is for security reasons, following violent clashes between Israeli troops and Palestinian demonstrators and Israeli airstrikes on Hamas targets in Gaza over the weekend, according to Reuters.


----------



## Hollie

While you may have thought Islamic Rage Boy had retired....








He's back. Just older, 










						Latest flare-up of Gaza border violence leaves Israel with few good options
					

Hamas went ahead with mass rally and inevitable riots, even after deal to resupply Qatari funds; Bennett, just like his predecessor, has to carefully gauge Israel's response




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*Hamas went ahead with mass rally and inevitable riots, even after deal to resupply Qatari funds; Bennett, just like his predecessor, has to carefully gauge Israel’s response*​


P


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Concerns for Domestic Election
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Nonsense, the Arab Palestinians haven't followed the Basic Law for the last decade.  What makes you think they will bother now?



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian Basic Law (constitution) calls for the speaker of parliament to temporarily take the office of president and call for elections within 60 days.
> 
> Of course this won't happen.
> 
> My guess is that the US/Israel are trying to find someone to install as we speak.


*(COMMENT)*

It is getting hard to figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.  Traditionally, the Arab Palestinians, upon the death of the political leader, have a short internal fight for control.  While the Basic Law says one thing, "the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), is still the power behind the throne, and the *sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people* in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  That is the case whether there is a State Government or no State Government.  Right now you will no doubt notice, 

If you look up the *State of Palestine website* (dropdown menu for "About Palestine") you will see the tab for *The Palestine Liberation Organization* (PLO):




> _*Palestine National Council*_
> 
> The PNC, which is the highest decision-making body of the PLO, is considered to be the parliament of all Palestinians inside and outside of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including Jerusalem.




You will no doubt notice that HE Dr. Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) is listed as the Chairman of the Executive Committee, PLO, and on the State of Palestine drop down menu the President of the State of Palestine is: Mr. Mahmoud Abbas.  Meaning, at the moment the PLO and the President of the State are one and the same person.  It will be interesting to see if this duality is, on the death of Abbas, broken up; and which would become the dominant authority.  Or, if the duality remains the status quo.

I think you give the US and Isreal too much credit for their influence on Arab Palestinian affairs.  I think that it will become obvious soon if the US is at all concerned with the plight of the Arab Palestinian.  And I think that the days of the US trying to buy cooperation from the State of Palestine/PLO/Fatah etc are over.  Once it is realized that the Blackmail for Peace protection money is totally ineffective, especially in the case of HAMAS, the US will no longer want to be, diplomatically, in the forefront when, what little restraint the Arab Palestinians have demonstrated, collapses and a militant paradigm curdles to the top as a solution for peace.  The Arab Palestinians already are at that point, openly and brazenly advocating for hostilities and violence.

At the moment, the corruption of the International courts in The Hague are defending the violence in favor of HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad which are designated terrorist organizations within the European Union.  





_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## Sixties Fan

I see this often as I browse around Palestinian school sites. While there is Jew-hatred - highlighted numerous times by MEMRI and Palestinian Media Watch - there are also smiling, laughing kids. It is hard to understand how innocent children - children who know nothing about hate - can be taught Jew-hatred in their schools, especially schools that are funded by the West, whether UNRWA or otherwise.

I tweeted a screenshot of this girl, upset that she is going to get a Hamas-approved education.

That is the unfortunate trajectory of most kids who go to Gaza schools with the Hamas-approved curriculum.




On Saturday, the school proved me right again. It held an assembly for the anniversary of the fire at Al Aqsa in 1969, falsely claiming that the fire was the first attempt by Zionist "settlers" to destroy the mosque - the same libel that Muslims have been pushing for a century. 

It is pure incitement against Jews, being taught to innocent children.

Yet my pointing this out generated hundreds of angry comments, accusing me of being the hater, of being awful by inciting Israel against the girl, of justifying her future murder by the IDF, of ignoring how much Jews hate Arabs....the stupidity went on and on for days now, with people accusing me of things that were the exact opposite of what I actually said. Not one of the supposedly liberal, peace loving respondents admitted that these kids are taught hate (except for a few that said, of course, that Israel is worse.) 

This morning an Arab TV correspondent in Washington called me "creepy and weird" - yet she is so deeply antisemitic that she has gone beyond the absurd Khazar theory and claimed that not only are Ashkenazic Jews not really Jews, but even Mizrahi Jews aren't! Arab antisemitism is that endemic.

(full article online)









						The Girl from Gaza: I touched a nerve for the haters
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Concerns for Domestic Election
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF: Nonsense, the Arab Palestinians haven't followed the Basic Law for the last decade.  What makes you think they will bother now?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is getting hard to figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.  Traditionally, the Arab Palestinians, upon the death of the political leader, have a short internal fight for control.  While the Basic Law says one thing, "the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), is still the power behind the throne, and the *sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people* in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  That is the case whether there is a State Government or no State Government.  Right now you will no doubt notice,
> 
> If you look up the *State of Palestine website* (dropdown menu for "About Palestine") you will see the tab for *The Palestine Liberation Organization* (PLO):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will no doubt notice that HE Dr. Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) is listed as the Chairman of the Executive Committee, PLO, and on the State of Palestine drop down menu the President of the State of Palestine is: Mr. Mahmoud Abbas.  Meaning, at the moment the PLO and the President of the State are one and the same person.  It will be interesting to see if this duality is, on the death of Abbas, broken up; and which would become the dominant authority.  Or, if the duality remains the status quo.
> 
> I think you give the US and Isreal too much credit for their influence on Arab Palestinian affairs.  I think that it will become obvious soon if the US is at all concerned with the plight of the Arab Palestinian.  And I think that the days of the US trying to buy cooperation from the State of Palestine/PLO/Fatah etc are over.  Once it is realized that the Blackmail for Peace protection money is totally ineffective, especially in the case of HAMAS, the US will no longer want to be, diplomatically, in the forefront when, what little restraint the Arab Palestinians have demonstrated, collapses and a militant paradigm curdles to the top as a solution for peace.  The Arab Palestinians already are at that point, openly and brazenly advocating for hostilities and violence.
> 
> At the moment, the corruption of the International courts in The Hague are defending the violence in favor of HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad which are designated terrorist organizations within the European Union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_





RoccoR said:


> I think you give the US and Isreal too much credit for their influence on Arab Palestinian affairs. I think that it will become obvious soon if the US is at all concerned with the plight of the Arab Palestinian. And I think that the days of the US trying to buy cooperation from the State of Palestine/PLO/Fatah etc are over.


Of course this leads me back to my never answered question. (The one you always duck.)

Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Why were they running the West Bank by 2007?  How did that happen?


----------



## Hollie

A deal for Qatari suitcases of welfare money is already in place but.... what else does one do with a breeding pool of disposable gee-had wannabes?











						Israeli soldier in serious condition after riots along Gaza border fence
					

Over 41 Palestinians injured in disturbances that took place despite Qatari aid-money mechanism deal.




					www.google.com
				




Over 41 Palestinians injured in disturbances that took place despite Qatari aid-money mechanism deal.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course this leads me back to my never answered question. (The one you always duck.)
> 
> Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Why were they running the West Bank by 2007?  How did that happen?


The never answered question: why is Hamas not allowing elections in their mini-caliphate?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course this leads me back to my never answered question. (The one you always duck.)
> 
> Fatah lost the 2006 elections. Why were they running the West Bank by 2007?  How did that happen?


Is that not the Arab way?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Is that not the Arab way?


The duck that I expected.


----------



## Hollie

Sheihk Amira was rockin' the mosque with the expected call for that wondrous islamist caliphate. 












						In an Al-Aqsa Mosque Address, Palestinian Islamic Scholar Sheikh Issam Amira Urges The Taliban To Declare An Islamic Caliphate, Have The Rulers Of Pakistan 'Kicked Out,' And Come To Liberate Jerusalem
					

Al-Aqsa Mosque address by Palestinian Islamic scholar Sheikh Issam Amira called upon the Taliban to declare a second Cal...




					www.memri.org
				




Al-Aqsa Mosque address by Palestinian Islamic scholar Sheikh Issam Amira called upon the Taliban to declare a second Caliphate and not just an Islamic emirate. He made these remarks in an address delivered at the Al-Aqsa Mosque and posted on Aqsa Call on YouTube on August 21, 2021. Amira said that very soon the people of Pakistan and the countries of the Fergana Valley would join the caliphate. He said that they will all come to Jerusalem as conquerors and liberators of the Al-Aqsa Mosque




The good Sheikh is just loads of fun.


In Al-Aqsa Mosque Address, Palestinian Cleric ‘Issam Amira Encourages Honor Killings


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994, and here he is quoted in 1995 as saying that he intends to drive the Israelis into the sea.

The entire Oslo process was a sham from the beginning. This isn't the only such Arabic Arafat quote during the Oslo "peace" process indicating that he regarded it as a stage towards the destruction of Israel, in line with the 1974 Phased Plan. 

Yet gullible Westerners are so enamoured at seeing a terrorist mouthing words of peace that they don't 'even consider that perhaps he might not be telling the truth. 









						Peace, Palestinian-style (Arafat 1995 edition)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> (full article online)
> 
> Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994, and here he is quoted in 1995 as saying that he intends to drive the Israelis into the sea.
> 
> The entire Oslo process was a sham from the beginning. This isn't the only such Arabic Arafat quote during the Oslo "peace" process indicating that he regarded it as a stage towards the destruction of Israel, in line with the 1974 Phased Plan.
> 
> Yet gullible Westerners are so enamoured at seeing a terrorist mouthing words of peace that they don't 'even consider that perhaps he might not be telling the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace, Palestinian-style (Arafat 1995 edition)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Did Arafat tell him that before he got AIDS?


----------



## Hollie

While the Israeli military waited too long, there were retaliatory air strikes aimed at the islamic terrorists who were back to the balloon gee-had. 












						Incendiary balloon launches continue after IDF strikes on Gaza
					

In response to machine-gun fire from Gaza that was heard in Israel, the IDF carried out an additional strike on a Hamas terrorist tunnel in Khan Younis.




					www.jpost.com
				




The IDF struck targets in the Gaza Strip late Monday night and into Tuesday morning after 10 fires were sparked by incendiary balloons launched into Israel from the Hamas-run coastal enclave, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit has confirmed.

IDF fighter jets had struck a weapons production site in Khan Younis, a terrorist tunnel in Jabaliya and a rocket-launching platform in the Shejaiya neighborhood of Gaza City, which was located in a civilian area near a school, it said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> While the Israeli military waited too long, there were retaliatory air strikes aimed at the islamic terrorists who were back to the balloon gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incendiary balloon launches continue after IDF strikes on Gaza
> 
> 
> In response to machine-gun fire from Gaza that was heard in Israel, the IDF carried out an additional strike on a Hamas terrorist tunnel in Khan Younis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF struck targets in the Gaza Strip late Monday night and into Tuesday morning after 10 fires were sparked by incendiary balloons launched into Israel from the Hamas-run coastal enclave, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit has confirmed.
> 
> IDF fighter jets had struck a weapons production site in Khan Younis, a terrorist tunnel in Jabaliya and a rocket-launching platform in the Shejaiya neighborhood of Gaza City, which was located in a civilian area near a school, it said.


IDF fighter jets V balloons!

Now *that* is funny.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  The Shift in the View the Europeans Hold.
※→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*:  Once the Prosecutor for the* International Criminal Court *(ICC) made the determination that the Arab Palestinians were the victims - that was the seminal moment in the conflict.  That was was not just a paradigm shift in perspective, but an avalanche, which demonstrated the scope and nature of the ICC's lack of professional ethics and moral compass.



Hollie said:


> While the Israeli military waited too long, there were retaliatory air strikes aimed at the islamic terrorists who were back to the balloon gee-had.
> 
> The IDF struck targets in the Gaza Strip late Monday night and into Tuesday morning after 10 fires were sparked by incendiary balloons launched into Israel from the Hamas-run coastal enclave, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit has confirmed.
> 
> IDF fighter jets had struck a weapons production site in Khan Younis, a terrorist tunnel in Jabaliya and a rocket-launching platform in the Shejaiya neighborhood of Gaza City, which was located in a civilian area near a school, it said.


*(QUESTION)*

When the *ICC* picks up the banner for the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), and begins the prosecutorial process against the Israeli, does the Court itself becomes a criminal party?
​


			
				UN Security Council Resolution 1373 • Threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts said:
			
		

> 2. Decides also that all States shall:
> (a) Refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;​*SOURCE LINK*​





> They also require each EU country to:
> ​​
> —criminalise preparatory acts as offences linked to terrorist activities - examples include public provocation to commit a terrorist offence, recruitment and training for terrorism and theft, extortion or forgery with the aim of committing terrorist offences;
> 
> ​
> —criminalise inciting or aiding or abetting, as well as attempting to commit certain types of offences;
> 
> *SOURCE LINK*​



*SHORT ANSWER*:  Yes

And it is a matter of perception.  Even if the Court can defend its actions by accepting the complaint from a terrorist organization, how does that shape the court appearance?

*(COMMENT)*

Now I'm sure that the legal eagles can come up with all sorts of reasoning as to how the ICC can support the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) activities.
​


			
				Palestinian Media Watch said:
			
		

> *PA official to Jafra News:*
> 
> _The Pre-Trial Chamber was requested to determine the scope of jurisdiction merely for show to “protect the ICC’s public image”_
> _The ICC prosecutor deceived the international community when she initiated a sham pre-trial request, supposedly to determine if the ICC has jurisdiction over the “situation in Palestine.” In fact the “decision is a foregone conclusion,” and she has already decided to initiate an investigation_
> _The PA committee working with the ICC prosecutor has Hamas and PFLP members_
> *SOURCE LINK*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Times of Israel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas lauds ICC jurisdiction ruling: ‘Use all means to stop Zionist crimes’​
> *SOURCE LINK*​By TOI STAFF  6 February 2021​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

[/quote]


			
				Palestinian Media Watch said:
			
		

> Both HAMAS and the PFLP are on the *EU List of Terrorist Organizations*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  The Shift in the View the Europeans Hold.
> ※→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Once the Prosecutor for the* International Criminal Court *(ICC) made the determination that the Arab Palestinians were the victims - that was the seminal moment in the conflict.  That was was not just a paradigm shift in perspective, but an avalanche, which demonstrated the scope and nature of the ICC's lack of professional ethics and moral compass.
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> When the *ICC* picks up the banner for the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), and begins the prosecutorial process against the Israeli, does the Court itself becomes a criminal party?
> ​
> 
> 
> *SHORT ANSWER*:  Yes
> 
> And it is a matter of perception.  Even if the Court can defend its actions by accepting the complaint from a terrorist organization, how does that shape the court appearance?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Now I'm sure that the legal eagles can come up with all sorts of reasoning as to how the ICC can support the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) activities.
> ​


[/QUOTE]
Both HAMAS and the PFLP are on the *EU List of Terrorist Organizations*.

But the UN, the ICC, and most countries in the world do not.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The IAF has thus far flown limited retaliatory strikes in response to the gee-had attacks. This may prompt them to take more active measures.











						Incendiary balloon launches continue after IDF strikes on Gaza
					

In response to machine-gun fire from Gaza that was heard in Israel, the IDF carried out an additional strike on a Hamas terrorist tunnel in Khan Younis.




					www.google.com
				




Incendiary balloons were launched from the Gaza Strip on Tuesday hours after the IDF struck targets in the Gaza Strip late Monday night and into Tuesday morning after 10 fires were sparked by incendiary balloons launched into Israel from the Hamas-run coastal enclave.


----------



## Hollie

I think that westerners often fail to understand that islamist ideology is little different from that promoted by the Taliban vs. that promoted by Hamas. Islamic terrorists in suits vs. Islamic terrorists in Afghan turbans. It's still the same Medieval politico-religious ideology that has changed little from what it was 1,400 years ago. 











						The Parallels Between Taliban and Hamas That Media Won’t Acknowledge | Honest Reporting
					

Over the past week, the Taliban’s swift takeover of Afghanistan has dominated news coverage across the world. International outlets have published




					honestreporting.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Hamas, Taliban, Fatah, KSA, etc.  Same ideology, different place.

Allah akbar... or something like that.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

If Congress determines that NGOs are no longer independent of the PA, or that US-provided NGO funding will be shunted into the PA treasury, it could compel the administration to suspend all US aid to the West Bank and Gaza.

The PA’s recent Law-by-Decree No. 7/2021 is the latest in more than two decades of PA actions aimed at eroding the independence of civil society. The decree requires that NGO work plans “conform” with those of the PA. It authorizes Palestinian officials to transfer NGO funds to the PA treasury with virtually no transparency. It also imposes new fees on NGOs, effectively compelling donors to NGOs to subsidize the PA. If US aid is caught up in that scheme, it would violate US laws prohibiting economic assistance to the PA.

Congress can be expected to examine the PA’s control of NGOs as part of its oversight of US aid.

This study summarizes the PA’s gradual nationalization of Palestinian civil society organizations. It recommends that Congress review which US funds have ended up in the PA treasury, examine whether NGOs are independent of the PA, and determine whether US economic aid is precluded by Law-by-Decree No. 7/2021 or other PA laws and regulations.

(full article online)









						A New Palestinian Authority NGO Decree Might Halt US Aid to the West Bank and Gaza
					

Mideast Security and Policy Studies No. 197EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: President Joe Biden has said he wants to resume aid to the Palestinians, but recent Palestinian laws are making it difficult for him.




					besacenter.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> If Congress determines that NGOs are no longer independent of the PA, or that US-provided NGO funding will be shunted into the PA treasury, it could compel the administration to suspend all US aid to the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> The PA’s recent Law-by-Decree No. 7/2021 is the latest in more than two decades of PA actions aimed at eroding the independence of civil society. The decree requires that NGO work plans “conform” with those of the PA. It authorizes Palestinian officials to transfer NGO funds to the PA treasury with virtually no transparency. It also imposes new fees on NGOs, effectively compelling donors to NGOs to subsidize the PA. If US aid is caught up in that scheme, it would violate US laws prohibiting economic assistance to the PA.
> 
> Congress can be expected to examine the PA’s control of NGOs as part of its oversight of US aid.
> 
> This study summarizes the PA’s gradual nationalization of Palestinian civil society organizations. It recommends that Congress review which US funds have ended up in the PA treasury, examine whether NGOs are independent of the PA, and determine whether US economic aid is precluded by Law-by-Decree No. 7/2021 or other PA laws and regulations.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A New Palestinian Authority NGO Decree Might Halt US Aid to the West Bank and Gaza
> 
> 
> Mideast Security and Policy Studies No. 197EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: President Joe Biden has said he wants to resume aid to the Palestinians, but recent Palestinian laws are making it difficult for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org


Do what they do with Israel. Ignore the law, hand over the cash.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Do what they do with Israel. Ignore the law, hand over the cash.


These silly one-liners never make any sense.


----------



## Hollie

More balloon gee-had by the islamic terrorists. I'm not clear why the IAF is not bringing in some retaliatory strikes. 











						Incendiary balloon launches continue after IDF strikes on Gaza
					

In response to machine-gun fire from Gaza that was heard in Israel, the IDF carried out an additional strike on a Hamas terrorist tunnel in Khan Younis.




					www.jpost.com
				




Incendiary balloons were launched from the Gaza Strip on Tuesday hours after the IDF struck targets in the Gaza Strip late Monday night and into Tuesday morning after 10 fires were sparked by incendiary balloons launched into Israel from the Hamas-run coastal enclave.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The IAF has thus far flown limited retaliatory strikes in response to the gee-had attacks. This may prompt them to take more active measures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incendiary balloon launches continue after IDF strikes on Gaza
> 
> 
> In response to machine-gun fire from Gaza that was heard in Israel, the IDF carried out an additional strike on a Hamas terrorist tunnel in Khan Younis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incendiary balloons were launched from the Gaza Strip on Tuesday hours after the IDF struck targets in the Gaza Strip late Monday night and into Tuesday morning after 10 fires were sparked by incendiary balloons launched into Israel from the Hamas-run coastal enclave.


How many balloon launching sites has Israel taken out?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> How many balloon launching sites has Israel taken out?


If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that the IAF takes out Hamas weapons production sites as Hamas is ultimately responsible for gee-had attacks from Gaza.

Why don't you pay attention?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that the IAF takes out Hamas weapons production sites as Hamas is ultimately responsible for gee-had attacks from Gaza.
> 
> Why don't you pay attention?


That wasn't the question.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Shift in the View the Europeans Hold.
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> But the UN, the ICC, and most countries in the world do not..


*(COMMENT)*

The United Nations could not agree on the color of toilet paper.

To be fair - you are correct.






_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> That wasn't the question.


That was the question. Could you not find a youtube video to answer the question?


----------



## Hollie

Theocratic totalitarianism is an ideogical bond that connects Hamas and the Taliban. For all the hatred of the infidel expressed by Hamas however, they sure like our welfare dollars. 












						Hamas Praises Taliban for American 'Defeat'
					

The Gaza Islamist militant-group Hamas praised the Taliban for their "defeat" of the United States in Afghanistan....




					www.google.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A government attacking media is pretty big news, right? 

But this story - which happened on Saturday, and this press release issued Tuesday morning - has not gotten any coverage in the media that I could find. 

Not even from the Washington Post!

The Washington Post made a conscious decision not to cover an attack on its own journalists. It chose to publish AP's story on the protest in Ramallah, and not the account of its own people on the scene. 

The venerable news organization chose to adhere to the wishes of the Palestinian Authority that they censor their own story about Palestinian police violence.

Compare the lack of response here to the huge headlines when Israel attacked an office tower that housed AP along with Hamas offices and intelligence equipment in May. Article after article hinted that Israel deliberately attacked the media, a most ridiculous accusation. But when Palestinians target media explicitly - silence.

That cowardice is the real story here, not the attack itself. A news organization that makes a decision to censor itself in the face of threats from Palestinian bullies cannot be trusted to objectively report any news from the region - Palestinian threats clearly work.

(full article online)









						Palestinian police attack two @WashingtonPost reporters. No one reported it - not even the Washington Post! (UPDATE x2)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Stalled" is right. Few seem to want the vaccine in the Palestinian areas. A mere 4200 doses a day were administered over the past week. At that rate, they wouldn't run out of the vaccines they already have for seven months - enough time for the US donation to expire! (Assuming about 2.3 million Palestinian adults and 1 million doses already given.)

For months, we were told that Palestinians were being deprived of much needed vaccines. But none of those reporters bothers to take a survey of what Palestinians themselves want.

Hamas is offering cash rewards for people to take vaccines. and both Hamas and the PA are forcing their employees to get vaccinated or else lose their paychecks. The Palestinians are expecting a shipment of a million more vaccines in September, which will again expire before they are used unless there is a significant wave of new people taking the vaccine. 

(full article online)









						US gives Palestinians 500,000 vaccines that will go to waste - most Palestinians don't want to get jabs.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> IDF fighter jets V balloons!
> 
> Now *that* is funny.



Is that what Hamas oligarchs
tell the degenerates sending them to die?

Now, picture having the Jihadi faces on the bottom of the screen,
and the thermal vision of a drone above it, watching as they turn their
heads around and start singing love songs to every Hamas mother and sister

Stuff to tell on a coffee break...


----------



## rylah

Osama Adaij the_"peaceful protest"_ with a grande at 1:11 in his hand_ 

- _count this one down.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

rylah said:


> Osama Adaij the_"peaceful protest"_ with a grande at 1:11 in his hand_
> 
> - _count this one down.


*with a grande at 1:11 in his hand* 

At least he wasn't holding a grenade.......


----------



## rylah

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *with a grande at 1:11 in his hand*
> 
> At least he wasn't holding a grenade.......



Updates soon about the rest of his buddies...
and new city planing improvements to help name a new road after them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_In his column in the online daily _Raialyoum.com_, Palestinian politician Bassam Abu Sharif, a former advisor of Yasser Arafat and a founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, wrote an open letter to Hizbullah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah, in which he lavished praise on Nasrallah, stating that  the light in his face “reminds us of the light of the face of the Prophet Muhammad.” Adding that Nasrallah is a “courageous commander,” a source of hope, strength and inspiration whom the Palestinian and Arab peoples follow and  salute, Abu Sharif noted that today, after the American withdrawal from Afghanistan, it is possible to “uproot the Zionists from our land.” He therefore urged the operations room of the resistance axis, headed by Nasrallah, to draw up a fighting plan that will “deliver painful blows” to Israel and cause the Israelis to flee back to the countries from which they came. Addressing Nasrallah, he emphasized: “You are our commander and we await [you] at the gates of the blessed Al-Aqsa to pray together there... Our enemy will be destroyed… when the arrows reach its neck."_

(full article online)









						Former Arafat Advisor In Open Letter To Hizbullah Leader Nasrallah: Oh Courageous And Beloved Commander, We Are Waiting For You To Act To Liberate Palestine, Drive The Israelis Out Of Our Land
					

In his column in the online daily Raialyoum.com, Palestinian politician Bassam Abu Sharif, a former advisor of Yasser Arafat and a founder of the Popular Front for the L




					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

With the IDF updating rules of engagement when protecting themselves and their border from islamic terrorist attacks, those who pay the price will be the children and teens sent to front line of the gee-gad.














						Israel bolsters troops on Gaza border ahead of fresh Hamas protests Wednesday
					

Military sends additional soldiers to frontier, updates rules for opening fire in order to prevent repeat of Saturday's clashes in which a soldier was critically wounded




					www.timesofisrael.com
				



*Military sends additional soldiers to frontier, updates rules for opening fire in order to prevent repeat of Saturday’s clashes in which a soldier was critically wounded*​
​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

News of Terrorism and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (August 18-24, 2021) - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

The Gaza Strip: After the violence at the Gaza Strip border on August 21, 2021, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations threatened they would continue exerting pressure on Israel to ease the "siege" of the Gaza Strip. Judea and Samaria: A young Palestinian tried to stab a security guard at...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				






*The Gaza Strip*: After the violence at the Gaza Strip border on August 21, 2021, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations threatened they would continue exerting pressure on Israel to ease the “siege” of the Gaza Strip. The organizations announced a protest rally would be held near the border security fence east of Khan Yunis on August 25, 2021. On the afternoon of August 23, 2021, ten fires burned in the Israeli communities near the Gaza Strip. According to Israel Fire and Rescue fire marshals, they had been caused by incendiary balloons launched from the Gaza Strip. In response the Israeli Air Force attacked a number of Hamas terrorist targets. In the meantime, building materials and merchandise continue entering the Gaza Strip from Israel.


----------



## Hollie

A meeting of the (diseased) minds.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


A future Hamas summer gee-had attendee.

Lovely.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Authority Attacks Journalists - Washington Free Beacon
					

The Palestinian government's security forces attacked two Washington Post reporters who were covering an anti-Palestinian Authority protest on Aug. 21, according to the Foreign Press Association.




					freebeacon.com
				




The Palestinian government's security forces attacked two _Washington Post_ reporters who were covering an anti-Palestinian Authority protest on Aug. 21, according to the Foreign Press Association.

"As police broke up the gathering, a Palestinian policeman grabbed the Washington Post photographer as he was taking pictures of the arrests [of protesters]," reads a statement from the association. "The officer seized the camera, held the photographer's neck and tore his press badge."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palestinian Authority Attacks Journalists - Washington Free Beacon
> 
> 
> The Palestinian government's security forces attacked two Washington Post reporters who were covering an anti-Palestinian Authority protest on Aug. 21, according to the Foreign Press Association.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freebeacon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian government's security forces attacked two _Washington Post_ reporters who were covering an anti-Palestinian Authority protest on Aug. 21, according to the Foreign Press Association.
> 
> "As police broke up the gathering, a Palestinian policeman grabbed the Washington Post photographer as he was taking pictures of the arrests [of protesters]," reads a statement from the association. "The officer seized the camera, held the photographer's neck and tore his press badge."


Yep, that is who our government supports.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Yep, that is who our government supports.


Your usual conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism carries consequences for islamic terrorists 











						How Many Gaza Palestinians Were Killed by Hamas Rockets in May? An Estimate
					

Much of the coverage and commentary surrounding the fighting in May between Hamas and Israel has focused on numbers, especially the much larger number of Palestinians than Israelis killed. The number




					besacenter.org
				




That 16 Palestinians, including eight children, were killed in just one day by two errant Palestinian rockets underscores just how dangerous these projectiles are. Considering that 680 Palestinian rockets and mortars landed inside Gaza during the 11 days of fighting, this one-day toll suggests that a significant number of Gaza residents were killed by those weapons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Yep, that is who our government supports.


The US should cut off Abbas and have the Palestinian hold elections according to constitutional procedures.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The US should cut off Abbas and have the Palestinian hold elections according to constitutional procedures.


Send an email to the UN.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh met with Sweden's deputy foreign minister Robert Rydbergon Tuesday, 

He used the occasion to ask the EU to pressure Israel economically to agree to establish a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. He also thanked Sweden for its supposed support for the "right of return." (As far as I can tell, Sweden's position is for a token number of Palestinians to be allowed to move to Israel as part of a larger peace agreement, and it says "the Palestinians will have to abandon their demand for a mass repatriation to Israel itself.")

Perhaps the most absurd part of the conversation was Shtayyeh's insistence on the fiction that the PA really, really wanted to hold the scheduled legislative elections in May, but Israel's refusal to allow Arabs in Jerusalem to vote is what scuttled the plan.

Even though that was the excuse used by Abbas when he canceled the elections in April, no one believed him. His Fatah party had split into three groups and polling showed that Hamas would win handily. And the few thousand Jerusalem Arabs who used post offices in 2006 to cast remote ballots could have easily traveled a short distance into the territories to vote. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian continue to claim they always wanted elections but Israel stopped them
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



Two scavengers of opposing PA oligarch clans
fighting over their share  after Abbas dies,
while pinning it on the Jews...

So they can keep their princess lifestyle
and drink Vodka in the "big Satan!"

Life's easy like that in the US, just play the role and cash the cheque - thus many are joining ...


----------



## Hollie

One sentence encapsulates so much of decades wasted in efforts to allow the Pal retrogrades to improve their lot in life. 

"'The PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza have both squandered billions of dollars of aid that was meant to build a public health system, spending the money instead on corruption, incitement, and terrorism.''












						PA and Hamas Try to 'Coronawash' Their Own Corruption - JINSA
					

We are in the midst of a global health crisis unlike any we have faced in our lifetime. A pandemic has filled the future with uncertainty and the world community is scared, but even dark times have a silver lining.… Read more ›




					jinsa.org
				




The Palestinians have received more development and humanitarian assistance over the last 30 years than any other group of people in history. Yet they completely lack the organization and infrastructure needed to combat this pandemic. The PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza have both squandered billions of dollars of aid that was meant to build a public health system, spending the money instead on corruption, incitement, and terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists sure like our kuffar technology which they use to promote their hate for all things kuffar. 












						Murderer is “heroic” ex-prisoner who lives in "occupied" Israel: Two PA fundamentals in one short Facebook post | PMW Analysis
					

One short post on the Facebook page of the PA funded PLO Commission for ‎Prisoners’ Affairs has managed to encapsulate two fundamental Palestinian Authority ‎principles




					www.palwatch.org
				




Palestinian Media Watch

Murderer is “heroic” ex-prisoner who lives in "occupied" Israel: Two PA fundamentals in one short Facebook post
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.‎  | Aug 17, 2021
One short post on the Facebook page of the PA funded PLO Commission for Prisoners’ Affairs has managed to encapsulate two fundamental Palestinian Authority principles: that terrorist prisoners are ‘heroes’, and that the State of Israel is ‘occupied territory’.

The post, which featured photographs of the head of the Commission, Qadri Abu Bakr, meeting with released terrorist Rushdi Abu Mukh, read:

“Director of [PLO] Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr received released heroic prisoner Saleh [Rushdi] Abu Mukh in the commission’s offices in Ramallah today [Aug. 11, 2021]…

Saleh [Abu Mukh], a resident of Baqa Al-Gharbiya that is in the occupied Interior, sat in the occupation’s prison for 35 years. He was released this April [2021]. He is one of the oldest prisoners – ‘the generals of endurance’ – who were arrested before the signing of the [1993] Oslo Accords.”

[Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs, Aug. 11, 2021]


----------



## Hollie

It is difficult to overstate the sheer lunacy of making the same mistakes for decades. While the islamic terrorist franchises expect and rely on international welfare money to maintain them, the international community continues to provide that welfare. 












						A Closer Look at Corruption, Hamas, and Violence in the Gaza Strip
					

The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence tow…




					www.google.com
				




The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence towards Israel and its civilians; Israel responds with military strikes targeting Hamas’s weaponry infrastructure, but since Hamas has intentionally embedded itself in Gaza’s civilian population, Israel’s strikes inevitably claim innocent lives. The question whether Israel’s response was proportional or excessive saturates the news and media. Eventually the two sides reach a tentative ceasefire, the violence subsides, and attention turns elsewhere—until the vicious cycle repeats.


----------



## Hollie

Here's some tough talking from another Mahmoud. No indication of who is going to expel Israel. I have a sense that this particular Mahmoud will not be leading the gee-had warriors to storm the Israeli border. 











						Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar: The World Will Accept The Expulsion Of Israel, Like It Accepted The Expulsion Of The U.S. By The Taliban; Gulf Leaders Will Be Forced To Flee Like Ashraf Ghani
					

Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar said that the world has accepted the Taliban's expulsion of the United States oc...




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar: The World Will Accept The Expulsion Of Israel, Like It Accepted The Expulsion Of The U.S. By The Taliban; Gulf Leaders Will Be Forced To Flee Like Ashraf Ghani


----------



## Sixties Fan

(It does not change )

A new poll published by Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) asked Palestinians in the West Bank what they would prefer to see in a final solution with Israel.

Their preference reminds one of an earlier "final solution."

Only 36% support a two state solution. 60% support a "solution" where an Arab Palestine takes over the entire area: "a unified Palestinian state on historic Palestine."

What about that "binational state" where Jews and Arabs have equal rights that so many Israel haters like Peter Beinart are claiming would be the best solution? 

Only 8% support "a one-state solution with Palestinians and Israelis living together." The question didn't even ask about equal rights - just whether they would want a state where they merely live with "Israelis" (which means Jews - they consider Israeli Arab to be Palestinian.).

This means that those who answered "a unified Palestinian state on historic Palestine" don't want any Jews in their state, certainly not as citizens with full rights.

Tell us again that Israel is the obstacle to peace.

(full article online)









						Poll shows Palestinians don't want a state with rights for Jews - they want a fully Arab state replacing Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: A Single State → is No Solution
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF: * While I have to respect the Office of the President, the Israelis should be very cautious believing any voice of assurance from the White House, State Department, or Congress.  It is all about them, not the people of this nation, and certainly not about honor or integrity.



Sixties Fan said:


> (It does not change )
> 
> A new poll published by Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) asked Palestinians in the West Bank what they would prefer to see in a final solution with Israel.
> 
> Their preference reminds one of an earlier "final solution."
> 
> Only 36% support a two state solution. 60% support a "solution" where an Arab Palestine takes over the entire area: "a unified Palestinian state on historic Palestine."


*(COMMENT)*

A Single State Solution (SSS) in favor of Arab Palestinian rule is an invitation to more bloodshed on a level not seen since the 1948 Conflict started.  Such a SSS would not only spell the end of the Jewish National Home (JNH) but the State of Israel (SoI) entirely.

Then the Arab League and the Palestinians will see an entirely new Phase of Conflict develop where:

◈.  The conflict will develop between the Factions of Arab Palestinians for power.​​◈.   An insurgency will develop between the Jewish Factions and the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and leadership.​​◈.  Some factions of the Jewish Asymmetric Fighters implement a scorched Earth program over the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate.  Reducing the entirety of the territory to less than pre-WWI conditions.​
Now, you might say that this is an exaggeration of possible outcomes. But the terminology is to "unleash hell."

BUT, I don't think that Israel is going to let the HoAP get to that point.






_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## Hollie

Lovely. Maybe she can pose in one of those really creepy Islamic terrorist group photos with children dressed in military uniforms as future ''martyrs''.










						Rashida Tlaib Promoted a Fundraiser for Group Tied to Hamas, Taliban - Washington Free Beacon
					

Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D., Mich.) on Wednesday shared a tweet that advertised a fundraiser for an organization with ties to Hamas and the Taliban.




					freebeacon.com
				




Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D., Mich.) on Wednesday shared a tweet that advertised a fundraiser for an organization with ties to Hamas and the Taliban.

Tlaib, who has a long history of anti-Semitic rhetoric, retweeted a post from critical race theorist Khaled Beydoun that urged donations to Baitulmaal, a Texas-based nonprofit. Experts say Baitulmaal helps fundraise for Hamas and distributes aid to the "families of martyrs of the Palestinian people." And the group's leader, Mazen Mokhtar, has been accused of working with the Taliban and other terrorist groups.


----------



## Hollie

With a steady supply of international welfare money rolling in and a similarly steady supply of child graduates from the Hitler Youth styled summer camps, Hamas antagonism and the border gee-had will continue. 












						Hamas Escalates Again as It Plays the Long, Radical Game
					

Gaza’s Hamas Chief Yehya Al-Sinwar talks to media, in Gaza City October 28, 2019. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem/ Three months after the …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Three months after the end of its May conflict with Israel, Hamas has returned to its familiar ways of constant attrition, violent extortion, and “controlled escalation” tactics. Hamas has launched violent border disturbances again and authorized the release of arson balloons designed to harass and damage southern Israeli communities located close to the Strip. Recent years have shown that these measures, designed to “pressure” Israel into concessions, can quickly spiral out of control and result in war.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Relatives of Palestinian activist Nizar Banat ask UN human rights bodies, Britain’s Metropolitan Police to open investigations under principle of universal jurisdiction​
(full article online)









						Family of Abbas critic, who died in PA custody, seeks international justice
					

Relatives of Palestinian activist Nizar Banat ask UN human rights bodies, Britain's Metropolitan Police to open investigations under principle of universal jurisdiction




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist franchises will be sending more of their disposable children to the gee-had front lines. 








__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				




Palestinian terrorist factions in the Gaza Strip said on Saturday that they will stage a riot along the border fence later in the day and resume launch of incendiary balloons over the border into Israeli territory starting Sunday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic terrorist franchises will be sending more of their disposable children to the gee-had front lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i24NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.i24news.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorist factions in the Gaza Strip said on Saturday that they will stage a riot along the border fence later in the day and resume launch of incendiary balloons over the border into Israeli territory starting Sunday.


I thought they were to negotiate a truce after the ceasefire.

What happened to that?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Rashida Tlaib Describes Palestinian Terrorists as 'Loving' and 'Successful'
					

Rashida Tlaib is under fire for calling on Israel to stop its "disgusting" policy of holding the bodies of Palestinians killed while....




					www.breitbart.com
				




Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) is under fire for calling on Israel to stop its “disgusting” policy of holding the bodies of Palestinians killed while carrying out terror attacks, and for describing the terrorists as “loving” and “successful” people.

Afana was killed by Israeli troops in June after attempting a ramming attack on a group of Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint in the West Bank. Afana then exited her vehicle and charged at the soldiers, attempting to stab them with a knife she was brandishing.


----------



## Hollie

A bit like pest control. You have to re-apply measures from time to time. 







__





						Israel strikes Hamas military target
					





					www.msn.com
				




Israel announced on Sunday it struck a Hamas military compound and tunnel entrance in the Gaza Strip in response to clashes along the border between Palestinian protesters and troops.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Happy-fun islamic terrorist border riots, until the return fire starts.











						1,000-plus Violent Hamas Rioters Faced by IDF Gaza Border
					

The IDF was forced to use tear gas and "riot dispersal means" to contain the violence and distance the “peaceful protesters” from Israel’s border.




					www.jewishpress.com
				


















						Inside Gaza's Factory Making Prosthetic Legs For Palestinian Protest Amputees
					

As many as 75 Palestinians have needed a leg amputation after suffering Israeli gunshot wounds at Gaza border protests, according to the Artificial Limbs and Polio Center in Gaza City.




					kansaspublicradio.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Enjoy Bethlehem:



> The Murad Castle was built 400 years ago during the rule of the Ottoman Sultan Murad, with an aim to protect the area of Solomon’s Pools from invaders, especially the safe passage of water resources to Jerusalem.
> 
> The Castle was transformed into a museum that relates a four thousand year old history, civilization and culture of all the people and civilizations that lived in the area. The museum is one of the biggest and most important in Palestine in terms of its history and collection of relics. It contains over 2,000 ancient pieces, which date all the way back to the Bronze, Iron, Byzantine and Islamic ages, reflecting all the civilizations that were living in the area.



Even though the castle is right in the area of Solomon's Pools, for some odd reason Jews don't seem to be mentioned as one of the peoples who have lived in the Bethlehem area. Isn't that interesting.

Anyway, the museum is also an event space nowadays. Like many museums, people can rent it out for parties or other events.









						Palestinian Taliban upset over a party at Murad Castle, Bethlehem
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com
				








__





						Mixed Dancing And Alcohol In The Courtyard Of The Murad Castle Mosque Sparks Widespread Palestinian Anger (witness) | A Homeland Tweeting Outside The Flock » Gulf News » Prime Time Zone
					

Footage from a concert in Suleiman's Pools, which includes a mihrab and the Murad Castle mosque in the village of Artas, southwest of Bethlehem in Palestine,




					primetimezone.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: A Single State → is No Solution
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:   It is not so unusual at all to see any attempts to see such disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or special resorts through regional agencies between the Israelis and the various factions of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) dematerialize even before they start.  The HoAP has had a long-standing history of refusals or avoidance excuses for entering into talks going back to the original 1948 War for Independence.



P F Tinmore said:


> I thought they were to negotiate a truce after the ceasefire.
> 
> What happened to that?


.*(COMMENT)*

There has not been a positive contribution or credible effort made HoAP/Islamic Resistance/Palestinian Islamic Jihad/etc towards peace and security since the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip.   Reduced militant efforts have only been observed as a means of resupply for the next incitement to violence.





_Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: A Single State → is No Solution
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:   It is not so unusual at all to see any attempts to see such disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or special resorts through regional agencies between the Israelis and the various factions of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) dematerialize even before they start.  The HoAP has had a long-standing history of refusals or avoidance excuses for entering into talks going back to the original 1948 War for Independence.
> 
> 
> .*(COMMENT)*
> 
> There has not been a positive contribution or credible effort made HoAP/Islamic Resistance/Palestinian Islamic Jihad/etc towards peace and security since the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip.   Reduced militant efforts have only been observed as a means of resupply for the next incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,
> R_


I haven't heard anything about the truce. Got some info?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I haven't heard anything about the truce. Got some info?


They come and go. 

You need to keep up.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: A Single State → is No Solution
※→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*:  Listen to "Hollie."



P F Tinmore said:


> I haven't heard anything about the truce. Got some info?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they were to negotiate a truce after the ceasefire.
> 
> What happened to that?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> They come and go.
> 
> You need to keep up.


*.(COMMENT)*

The last truce effort with the Hostile Arab Palestinians was in May of this year.

Israel-Gaza: A truce halted the bloodshed, but the ...​


			https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/23/middleeast/israel...
		

May 23, 2021 · A truce halted the bloodshed, but the frustration of young Palestinians is stronger than ever By Kareem Khadder and Tamara Qiblawi, CNN Updated 4:54 AM ET, Sun May 23, 2021






_Most Respectfully,_
_R_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: A Single State → is No Solution
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Listen to "Hollie."
> 
> 
> 
> *.(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last truce effort with the Hostile Arab Palestinians was in May of this year.
> 
> Israel-Gaza: A truce halted the bloodshed, but the ...​
> 
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/23/middleeast/israel...
> 
> 
> May 23, 2021 · A truce halted the bloodshed, but the frustration of young Palestinians is stronger than ever By Kareem Khadder and Tamara Qiblawi, CNN Updated 4:54 AM ET, Sun May 23, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> _R_





RoccoR said:


> Israel-Gaza: A truce halted the bloodshed, but the ...











						A truce halted the bloodshed, but the frustration of young Palestinians is stronger than ever
					

After the declaration of a ceasefire brought an end to more than 10 days of conflict between Gaza and Israel, Palestinians can rest a little easier. But they say their day-to-day reality hasn't changed.




					www.cnn.com
				




Great article, thanks.

So where is the truce? Who is doing anything with that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> A truce halted the bloodshed, but the frustration of young Palestinians is stronger than ever
> 
> 
> After the declaration of a ceasefire brought an end to more than 10 days of conflict between Gaza and Israel, Palestinians can rest a little easier. But they say their day-to-day reality hasn't changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great article, thanks.
> 
> So where is the truce? Who is doing anything with that?


Where is the truce? It ended abruptly when the gee-had attacks resumed which, you know, ended the truce.









						Israel attacks Hamas sites in Gaza in response to fire balloons
					

Palestinians say the balloons aim to pressure Israel to ease restrictions on coastal enclave that were tightened in May.




					www.google.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Where is the truce? It ended abruptly when the gee-had attacks resumed which, you know, ended the truce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel attacks Hamas sites in Gaza in response to fire balloons
> 
> 
> Palestinians say the balloons aim to pressure Israel to ease restrictions on coastal enclave that were tightened in May.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Israeli bullshit, of course. Israel never stopped its violence after the ceasefire.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli bullshit, of course. Israel never stopped its violence after the ceasefire.


What violence?


----------



## Hollie

It's so nice that the Ummah's girls have role models. What Father doesn't want to see his little girl aspire to be a suicide bomber / mass murderer?











						Terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi is a role model at PLO camps - “The Sisters of Dalal Mughrabi summer camp” | PMW Analysis
					

PLO and Fatah held “the Sisters of Dalal Mughrabi summer camp” for young girls




					www.palwatch.org
				




Terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi is a role model at PLO camps - “The Sisters of Dalal Mughrabi summer camp”
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Aug 30, 2021


PLO and Fatah held “the Sisters of Dalal Mughrabi summer camp” for young girls
At least two summer camps organized by the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports this year were named after the female terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37 civilians, among them 12 children, in 1978.

The image above shows a group of female summer camp participants making a “V” for victory while standing in front of a banner featuring a picture of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What violence?


It is over your head.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> What violence?


Well, as expected, out friend P F Tinmore retreats with a smiley face emoticon.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Well, as expected, out friend P F Tinmore retreats with a smiley face emoticon.


EYE ON PALESTINE: A Teach-In with Lamis Deek''​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> EYE ON PALESTINE: A Teach-In with Lamis Deek''​


Thart was as pointless as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lamis Deek speech at Yaakov Fauci Protest in East Meadow, Long Island​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lamis Deek speech at Yaakov Fauci Protest in East Meadow, Long Island​


More of your pointless spam.


----------



## Hollie

The article in the _Spectator_ addresses the PA specifically but with the Hamas terrorist / crime syndicate the 2nd richest islamic terrorist organization, those at the top of the pecking order are millionaires and billionaires. 











						Corruption affects everything in Palestine – even vaccines | The Spectator
					

Visit certain parts of the West Bank and you’ll encounter mansions owned by senior officials in the Palestinian Authority (PA). By any standards – let alone those to which ordinary citizens are accustomed – they are impressive, with arches, colonnades and tall windows. If you’d been watching...




					www.google.com
				




Visit certain parts of the West Bank and you’ll encounter mansions owned by senior officials in the Palestinian Authority (PA). By any standards – let alone those to which ordinary citizens are accustomed – they are impressive, with arches, colonnades and tall windows. If you’d been watching them in recent weeks, you might have seen vaccines being quietly delivered to these residences in unmarked cars, having been skimmed off the supply intended for medical workers.

Those, at least, were the allegations made by a number of Palestinian human rights and civil society groups. Last week, the Palestinian health ministry was forced to come clean. In a statement, the ministry admitted that 10 per cent of the 12,000 doses it had received had been put aside for government ministers and members of the PLO’s executive committee.


----------



## Hollie

It's really shocking to see just how much international welfare money and goodwill has been exploited by the islamic terrorist franchises occupying Gaza and the West Bank. Nothing about islamic terrorist thievery is unknown but here we are, decades in and still throwing money at these people.












						For Palestinian leaders,  a legacy of corruption
					

When it comes to humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority, transparency does not exist. The result has become a wealthy




					jewishjournal.org
				




For Palestinian leaders, a legacy of corruption​






Palestinian leaders Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas

The result has become a wealthy Palestinian elite that builds exclusive neighborhoods around Ramallah, leaving thousands of shoddily constructed apartments without services for the rest of Palestinian society. Yasser Arafat set the tone for the P.A. when he arrived in Gaza in 1994. Arafat took control of every contract and investment, using donor money to build a secret $1 billion portfolio, including investments in Coca-Cola, a Tunisian cellular phone company and venture-capital funds in the United States and the Cayman Islands.

Arafat stole $1 billion in tax revenue relayed by Israel for Palestinian workers. The money went to Arafat’s personal account in Israel’s Bank Leumi in Tel Aviv. And a whopping $100,000 a month went to his wife, Suha, living in Paris. Arafat was estimated by U.S. investigators to be worth between $1 billion and $3 billion.

Within three years of the P.A.’s establishment, Palestinian auditors found that 40 percent of the P.A. budget ($326 million) was misappropriated – a figure that rose to $700 million a decade later.
Not one Western government objected. This set the tone for theft at all levels in the P.A.; officials paid themselves high salaries and skimmed from others.


----------



## Hollie

Ramze is probably convinced that he should be taken seriously. 











						Palestinian Activist And Singer Ramze Alokk Brandishes A Sword At A Khan Yunis Border Protest, Declares: We Sharpen Our Sword So It Will Cut Swiftly, We Do Not Wish To Torture Anyone We Slaughter – Humans Or Livestock
					

Palestinian activist and singer Ramze Alokk (sometimes spelled Ramzi Al-Ak) said that the Palestinians do not sheathe th...




					www.memri.org
				




_Palestinian activist and singer Ramze Alokk (sometimes spelled Ramzi Al-Ak) said that the Palestinians do not sheathe their sword after the battle is over, but that they sharpen it for the future. He made his remarks at a Khan Yunis border protest that was broadcast on Al-Quds Today TV (Islamic Jihad – Gaza) on August 25, 2021. Alokk explained that the sword of the Palestinians has been drawn since the occupation entered their lands, and they keep it sharp because they do not want to torture anyone they slaughter, human beings or livestock. He said that "livestock are better than the occupation." Alokk led the crowd with the chant: "We respond to your call, oh Al-Aqsa!" Ramze Alokk was sentenced by Israeli authorities to 30 years in prison for his involvement in attempted bombings and in sniper attacks in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo, but was released in the 2011 Shalit Deal and banished to Gaza. For more about Alokk, see MEMRITV clip no. _8896.


----------



## Hollie

Islam means submission suffering. 












						Psaki: Palestinians ‘suffering as a result’ of Hamas ‘terrorists’
					

The White House press secretary denounced the Hamas terrorist group Friday during a press briefing. President Biden said Thursday that he supports Israel’s self defense.




					nypost.com
				



​
White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Friday that Palestinian civilians are “suffering as a result” of Hamas “terrorists” who this week launched a barrage of rockets from Gaza into Israel, prompting Israel Defense Force retaliation.
Psaki repeatedly denounced the Islamic fundamentalist party during her daily press briefing — after President Biden on Thursday said Israel wasn’t overreacting by responding with airstrikes.

“As the president conveyed in his statement, Israel has the right to self-defense. Our focus remains on continuing to use every lever at our disposal to de-escalate the situation on the ground. I think it’s also important to remind people, Hamas is a terrorist organization,” Psaki said.

“Hamas does not represent the views, the families, the people who are suffering — all of the Palestinian people who are suffering as a result of this violence. But there’s no justification for 1,500 rockets coming from Hamas into Israeli community — communities in Israel either.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch reports that at least two girls' summer camps in the West Bank were named after female terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, who was responsible for the murder of 37 people.

The "Sisters of Dalal Mughrabi summer camp" was in Tubas:






The similarly named "The Sisters of Dalal summer camp" was held in Tulkarem. Dalal Mughrabi is so popular, people know who she is from only her first name.

(full article online)









						Not only Hamas -  Fatah camps also teach children to celebrate terror
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Official PA TV and guests on its program _Anew_ completely ignored the fact that the terror organizations Hamas and Islamic Jihad fired over 4,300 rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip in May 2021, killing 12 and wounding hundreds, when discussing Israel’s response to the rockets. Whereas Israel's response targeted the terror leaders and terror infrastructure in the Strip, PA TV and the guests claimed it was a deliberate way to harm Palestinian civilians by targeting Gaza’s agriculture.

Interviewing a nursery owner and a farmer in Gaza, a PA TV host libeled and demonized Israel, suggesting that during the Fatah/Hamas riot and rocket war earlier this year Israel intentionally bombed agricultural nurseries to put an end to Gaza farming. The nursery owner and farmer both readily concurred:

















> *Official PA TV host:* “Do you think that the occupation wanted to bomb the agricultural nurseries in order to stop the agricultural process and cycle?”
> *Nursery owner: *“Yes.”
> *Farmer Ahmed Al-Louh:* “Yes. In the last war in the Gaza Strip the occupation wanted to destroy the agricultural cycle completely. Why? Because the nurseries are considered the supporting pillar of the farmers and the agriculture in the Gaza Strip… If the nursery is destroyed, the agricultural industry will not grow.”
> [Official PA TV, _Anew_, Aug. 21, 2021]


However, when responding to rockets fired from the Gaza Strip, Israel only attacks military targets. By contrast, Hamas and Islamic Jihad deliberately fire missiles from civilian areas, using the civilians as human shields and their property as cover.

Ironically, PA TV itself admitted during the war that Israel warned Gazan civilians to leave buildings before attacks:





















As Palestinian Media Watch documented, Fatah recently criticized Hamas for its continued storage of explosives in civilian buildings and public places after an explosion in a market killed one and wounded several:












(full article online)









						PA TV libel: Israel wanted to destroy Gaza’s agriculture during 2021 war | PMW Analysis
					

Interviewing a nursery owner and a farmer, a PA TV host libeled and demonized Israel, suggesting that during the Fatah/Hamas riot and rocket war earlier this year Israel intentionally bombed agricultural nurseries




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The Israeli anti gee-had forces have no illusions that ''unarmed protestors" are anything but Hamas flunkies who will be put down if they present a threat to the Israeli border. 











						Reuters Transforms Grenade-Wielding Palestinian Into ‘Anti-Israel Protester’
					

Palestinian demonstrators gather at the Israel-Gaza border fence during a protest in the southern Gaza Strip August 25, 2021. REUTERS/Mohammed …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Reuters Transforms Grenade-Wielding Palestinian Into ‘Anti-Israel Protester’​




Palestinian demonstrators gather at the Israel-Gaza border fence during a protest in the southern Gaza Strip August 25, 2021. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem
Hundreds of Palestinians rioted along the Gaza-Israel border in response to a call by the Hamas terror group on Saturday, August 21. Several Gazans — some of them wielding weapons, explosives, and stones — stormed the security fence and managed to shoot an Israeli border police officer at point-blank range, ultimately murdering him. Sources in Gaza have reported that the gunman is a lieutenant in Hamas’ forces.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Official PA TV and guests on its program _Anew_ completely ignored the fact that the terror organizations Hamas and Islamic Jihad fired over 4,300 rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip in May 2021, killing 12 and wounding hundreds, when discussing Israel’s response to the rockets. Whereas Israel's response targeted the terror leaders and terror infrastructure in the Strip, PA TV and the guests claimed it was a deliberate way to harm Palestinian civilians by targeting Gaza’s agriculture.
> 
> Interviewing a nursery owner and a farmer in Gaza, a PA TV host libeled and demonized Israel, suggesting that during the Fatah/Hamas riot and rocket war earlier this year Israel intentionally bombed agricultural nurseries to put an end to Gaza farming. The nursery owner and farmer both readily concurred:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, when responding to rockets fired from the Gaza Strip, Israel only attacks military targets. By contrast, Hamas and Islamic Jihad deliberately fire missiles from civilian areas, using the civilians as human shields and their property as cover.
> 
> Ironically, PA TV itself admitted during the war that Israel warned Gazan civilians to leave buildings before attacks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian Media Watch documented, Fatah recently criticized Hamas for its continued storage of explosives in civilian buildings and public places after an explosion in a market killed one and wounded several:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA TV libel: Israel wanted to destroy Gaza’s agriculture during 2021 war | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Interviewing a nursery owner and a farmer, a PA TV host libeled and demonized Israel, suggesting that during the Fatah/Hamas riot and rocket war earlier this year Israel intentionally bombed agricultural nurseries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org





Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas and Islamic Jihad fired over 4,300 rockets into Israel


No they didn't. There was no border crossed.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli bullshit, of course. Israel never stopped its violence after the ceasefire.


Can you post a link to this alleged Israeli violence in Garza after the ceasefire ?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> No they didn't. There was no border crossed.


Huh? What jibberish are you blabbing now ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Can you post a link to this alleged Israeli violence in Garza after the ceasefire ?


Propaganda question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Huh? What jibberish are you blabbing now ?


There is a cage around Gaza but there is no border there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There is a cage around Gaza but there is no border there.


Did you exhaust your supply of youtube videos?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Propaganda question.


Nice duck. You said Israel never stopped its violence after the ceasefire … I simply asked for proof. But as usual you have absolutely nothing. No surprise there.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Border Security Barrier
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Now this is just plain "emotional" and fallacious.





This is the Map (*Map 6 to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement*) showing the Safe Passage Routes, signed by the Palestinians as in agreement.


P F Tinmore said:


> There is a cage around Gaza but there is no border there.


*(COMMENT)*
.
Who says Israel is not allowed to fence off their border?  

◈. Erez Crossing also Beit Hanoun Crossing is a border crossing​◈. Kerem Shalom border crossing​◈. Rafah border crossing to Gaza​.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Border Security Barrier
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Now this is just plain "emotional" and fallacious.
> 
> View attachment 533574
> This is the Map (*Map 6 to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement*) showing the Safe Passage Routes, signed by the Palestinians as in agreement.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Who says Israel is not allowed to fence off their border?
> 
> ◈. Erez Crossing also Beit Hanoun Crossing is a border crossing​◈. Kerem Shalom border crossing​◈. Rafah border crossing to Gaza​.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Indeed, there is an international border between Palestine and Egypt at Rafah. However, those other two crossings are gates in the cage. There is no border there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)









						WATCH: Palestinian Singer Brandishes Sword at ‘Peaceful Protest’ | United with Israel
					

A Palestinian singer and convicted terrorist whipped up a crowd on the Gaza border by brandishing a sword.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

While the Pal terrorists got some concessions from the Israelis in connection with economic aid, the Pals were quick to rattle on about their entitlement to acts of islamic terrorism and pushing (often child) 'martyrs' to the firing line. 












						Hamas & Islamic Jihad's True Plan for Palestinians Exposed Following Gantz-Abbas Meeting | Honest Reporting
					

If any additional evidence was needed that Gaza’s Hamas rulers are committed to the destruction of Israel and do not care one iota about enhancing the




					honestreporting.com
				





Gantz and Abbas’ tete-a-tete was widely reported on and resulted in an apparent agreement on economic measures designed to help Palestinians in the West Bank, including a loan of 500 million shekels ($155 million) against taxes and tariffs Jerusalem collects on behalf of and remits to the PA but that are being withheld in accordance with an Israeli law that counters Ramallah’s  “Pay-for-Slay” policy of providing monthly “salaries” to terrorists and their families.

Instead, Hamas spokesman Abd al-Latif al-Qanou described the Gantz-Abbas meeting as a “stab in the back of the Palestinian people and what they have sacrificed,” adding it was a “betrayal of the blood of martyrs.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  I think there are people who are not firing on all cylinders.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, there is an international border between Palestine and Egypt at Rafah. However, those other two crossings are gates in the cage. There is no border there.


*(COMMENT)*

You are not using your little gray cells (_Hercule Poirot_).  On one side of the barrier, there is HAMAS.  On the other side, there is the Sovereign Territory of Israel.

*delimitation*  ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.​​*boundary/ies* The imaginary lines on the surface of the earth which separate the land territory or maritime zones (continental shelf and EEZ) of one State from that of another. Ideally, as a matter of common sense but little more, a land boundary should be easy to identify and difficult to cross:​​The perimeter that Israel holds sovereignty within, does not need your approval, or the approval of anyone else.  As you are so fond of saying, the people determine that which is sovereign.  And the people of Israel have (self) determined that territory.  They established it and control it. The Hostile Arab Palestinians can attempt to use force all they want, but at the end of the day, their strategy will end up collapsing what little they have today.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I think there are people who are not firing on all cylinders.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are not using your little gray cells (_Hercule Poirot_).  On one side of the barrier, there is HAMAS.  On the other side, there is the Sovereign Territory of Israel.
> 
> *delimitation*  ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.​​*boundary/ies* The imaginary lines on the surface of the earth which separate the land territory or maritime zones (continental shelf and EEZ) of one State from that of another. Ideally, as a matter of common sense but little more, a land boundary should be easy to identify and difficult to cross:​​The perimeter that Israel holds sovereignty within, does not need your approval, or the approval of anyone else.  As you are so fond of saying, the people determine that which is sovereign.  And the people of Israel have (self) determined that territory.  They established it and control it. The Hostile Arab Palestinians can attempt to use force all they want, but at the end of the day, their strategy will end up collapsing what little they have today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries no matter how many lies Israel throws at it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries no matter how many lies Israel throws at it.



The lie is your straw-man, and no one argues otherwise - but you.
Only you question boundaries of national sovereignty on the basis of
agreements on political boundaries, or lack of them, in the armistice lines.

*The territorial boundaries of Palestine are assigned*
*to the re-constitution of the Jewish nation.*

Can an armistice agreement change that?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  I think you have a reading comprehension problem.  I did not mention "Armistice Lines" anywhere in the reply.



P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries no matter how many lies Israel throws at it.


*(COMMENT)*

The use of the "Armistice Line" from 1949, as "borders", is an Arab Palestinian demand.  It has nothing at all to do with the Israeli preference.
​

			
				Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) • Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) said:
			
		

> *Summary *
> The delineation and demarcation of *agreed upon borders* are central to reaching an end of conflict on the basis of the two-state solution. *A State of Palestine based on pre June 4th 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital*. The Palestinian position on borders has undergone a significant transformation since 1948. The national movement once laid claim to its rights over all of historic Palestine, an area that includes modern day state of Israel. Since 1988, however, in the interest of achieving peace and ending the conflict, the Palestinian leadership limited the national aspirations to statehood to 22 percent of mandate Palestine, seeking a state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital (that is, all of the territory occupied by Israel in 1967). Despite this, Israel continues to create and change “facts on the ground,” with constructing the Annexation Wall, building and expanding illegal settlements, confiscating and grabbing Palestinian Land, demolishing of Palestinian homes, all in violation of international law.
> *SOURCE: LINK*


The current borders, to a larger extend, do not violate either the *1979 Treaty with Egypt* - or - the *1994 Treaty with Jordan*.  These Treaty Boundaries, annotated in detail by the treaties, were made without prejudice relative to the Arab Palestinians.  And while they trace over portions of the old Armistice Lines, the current permanent international boundaries are NOT bound or ties to the Armistice Lines.

I'm pretty sure _(although I cannot speak for the Israelis)_ that the pre-4 June 1967 Lines _(another way of saying the Armistice Lines)_ are NOT desired by the State of Israel.  The Armistice Lines only "remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved."   



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> The lie is your straw-man, and no one argues otherwise - but you.
> Only you question boundaries of national sovereignty on the basis of
> agreements on political boundaries, or lack of them, in the armistice lines.
> 
> *The territorial boundaries of Palestine are assigned*
> *to the re-constitution of the Jewish nation.*
> 
> Can an armistice agreement change that?


The armistice agreement was after the Mandate left Palestine.

I don't see where they were incompatible.

I just don't understand your question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I think you have a reading comprehension problem.  I did not mention "Armistice Lines" anywhere in the reply.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The use of the "Armistice Line" from 1949, as "borders", is an Arab Palestinian demand.  It has nothing at all to do with the Israeli preference.
> ​
> ​The current borders, to a larger extend, do not violate either the *1979 Treaty with Egypt* - or - the *1994 Treaty with Jordan*.  These Treaty Boundaries, annotated in detail by the treaties, were made without prejudice relative to the Arab Palestinians.  And while they trace over portions of the old Armistice Lines, the current permanent international boundaries are NOT bound or ties to the Armistice Lines.
> 
> I'm pretty sure _(although I cannot speak for the Israelis)_ that the pre-4 June 1967 Lines _(another way of saying the Armistice Lines)_ are NOT desired by the State of Israel.  The Armistice Lines only "remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved."
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Nice lot of stuff there but weren't we discussiung the cage around Gaza not being a border?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Nice lot of stuff there but weren't we discussiung the cage around Gaza not being a border?


There is no cage around the islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

PF Tinmore said;






He ran out of youtube videos.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists held another fashion parade. They were prancing around in the MI,Italy style uniforms they save for such events. 












						The terrorists who control the Palestinian street | PMW Analysis
					

In a massive show of force, armed gunmen from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades held “a military exercise” in the streets of the Palestinian city of Jenin.




					palwatch.org
				




The terrorists who control the Palestinian street​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Sep 2, 2021
In a massive show of force, armed gunmen from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades held “a military exercise” in the streets of the Palestinian city of Jenin.
These are some of the pictures depicting the events:


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  You are confusing a "Military" arrangement (Armistice) with a "Diplomatic" solution (Treaty between states).



P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice agreement was after the Mandate left Palestine.
> 
> I don't see where they were incompatible.
> 
> I just don't understand your question.


*(COMMENT)*

The Armistice Agreements are temporary *(or meant to be temporary)* pending a peaceful settlement.  Once the peaceful settlement  _(as agreed upon in the 1949 Armistice)_ is reached the Armistice Agreement is _finito_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice lot of stuff there but weren't we discussiung the cage around Gaza not being a border?


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) caused the necessity for extensive security arrangements.  The strong border arrangements are a consequence of their actions.

Where does it say that one country (Israel or any other nation) cannot control its borders?

The "cage" reference is merely drama queen language to accentuate the logical fallacy that there is some wrong-doing on the part of the Israelis.  Again, where is that codified in some law or treaty?




Most Respectfully,
R

Article XII (1) 
Israel shall continue to carry the responsibility for defense against external threats, including the responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders, and for defense against external threats from the sea and from the air, as well as the responsibility for overall security of Israelis and Settlements, for the purpose of safeguarding their internal security and public order, and will have all the powers to take the steps necessary to meet this responsibility.

ARTICLE VI  Security Arrangements in the Gaza Strip​
The Delimiting Line 
 
For the purpose of the present Agreement only, and without prejudice to the permanent status negotiations on borders, the line delimiting the northern and eastern edge of the Gaza Strip follows the fence on the ground, as delineated on attached map No. 2 by an unbroken green line (hereinafter "the Delimiting Line") and shall have no other effect. 
The Parties reaffirm that, as long as this Agreement is in force, the security fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel shall remain in place, and that the line demarcated by the fence shall be authoritative only for the purpose of this Agreement. 

Security Perimeter


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Where does it say that one country (Israel or any other nation) cannot control its borders?


Armistice lines are not borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ARTICLE VI Security Arrangements in the Gaza Strip​
> The Delimiting Line
> 
> For the purpose of the present Agreement only, and without prejudice to the permanent status negotiations on borders, the line delimiting the northern and eastern edge of the Gaza Strip follows the fence on the ground, as delineated on attached map No. 2 by an unbroken green line (hereinafter "the Delimiting Line") and shall have no other effect.
> The Parties reaffirm that, as long as this Agreement is in force, the security fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel shall remain in place, and that the line demarcated by the fence shall be authoritative only for the purpose of this Agreement.
> 
> Security Perimeter


Indeed, a cage.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Armistice lines are not borders.


Indeed. Israeli borders are, you know borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, a cage.


Indeed, silly melodrama.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, a cage.



Gotta control the rabid neighbors.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice agreement was after the Mandate left Palestine.
> 
> I don't see where they were incompatible.
> 
> I just don't understand your question.



The borders of Palestine and the Mandate, were assigned to
re-constitution of the Jewish nation by international law,
that has no statute of limitations.

So what does the distinction between armistice and political
lines have to do  - with rights that do not expire?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> The borders of Palestine and the Mandate, were assigned to
> re-constitution of the Jewish nation by international law,
> that has no statute of limitations.
> 
> So what does the distinction between armistice and political
> lines have to do  - with rights that do not expire?


Mandates had no borders.

Got a link for those borders?


----------



## Hollie

The EU has was questioning why UNRWA, the Islamic terrorist enabling agency, why their school material was little more than propaganda for the next generation of Islamic terrorist misfits. 












						Whiff of Hypocrisy as EU Parliament Grills UNRWA Head Over Antisemitic Textbooks in Palestinian Schools | Honest Reporting
					

The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) faced a grilling by members of the European Parliament on Wednesday after textbooks used in




					honestreporting.com
				




The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) faced a grilling by members of the European Parliament on Wednesday after textbooks used in its Palestinian schools were found to peddle antisemitic tropes and contained incitement to violence.

The Committee on Foreign Affairs hearing was called following the long-awaited release in June of a report that found Palestinian Authority books used to educate youth included antisemitism; “glorified” terrorists convicted of killing Israelis; removed the Jewish state from images of maps; and had excised previously included references to Israeli-Palestinian peace agreements.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mandates had no borders.
> 
> Got a link for those borders?


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the points he wanted to make was that American public opinion is turning against Israel, saying that the American public mood has begun describing Israel as racist, aggressive and committing war crimes. 

Abbas is especially heartened by anti-Zionist statements made by American Jews.

He also called out the US church denominations that have embraced anti-Israel positions.

As we have seen in years past, when Abbas feels like he has Westerners on his side, he becomes more intransigent, thinking that in time the West will force Israel to make concessions beyond what Israel has already offered. 

The anti-Zionists, who punch way above their weight in publicity, are giving Palestinians hope for their ultimate victory, so it is no wonder they refuse to compromise for peace.


(full article online)









						Mahmoud Abbas heartened by American anti-Zionists - especially Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://twitter.com/AFP?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1433057723290210314%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Felderofziyon.blogspot.com%2F2021%2F09%2F0901-links-pt2-dara-horn-on-world-that.html


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I don't think you can grasp this topic.  You were given this answer in a previous response.  

RE: *Posting #1382 The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate*​SUBTOPIC: Interpretation​


P F Tinmore said:


> Mandates had no borders.
> 
> Got a link for those borders?


*(ANSWER) (EXCERPT)*

_◈  French-British Convention:_ Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for the Syria and Lebanon, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, 1924 League of Nations Treaty Series pp355 Registry No 564​​✦    The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows :​​✦   A commission shall be established within three months from the signature of the present convention to trace on the spot the boundary line laid down in Article I between the French and British mandatory territories.​​_◈  French-British Border Agreement of 1923_, 1924 League of Nations Treaty Series pp365 Registry No #565​​✦    The members of the Boundary Commission designated, in accordance with the terms of article 2 of the Convention 3 of the 23rd December 1920 for the purpose of fixing the line of the Syro-Palestinian frontier between the sea and El Hamm, concluded their labours and drew up a final report at Beyrouth on the 3rd February, 1922.​
*(COMMENT)*

I have given all these references before _(several times)_.  And the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians can ignore them for some superficial, frivolous, and senseless reasons.

I simply cannot understand where you get this notion _(mistakes of facts)_ that former territories under the mandates do not have a line separating political and geographically named areas.

There are some cases in which you know they have no factual basis, yet attempt to wear a hat of authority and try to deliberately deceive the discussion group by spreading such fallacious and erroneous material in order to support the various terrorist organizations.

*(Ω)*
I am NOT an attorney.  But even a layman such as myself can plainly see through the Arab Palestinian veil of dark information that shrouds the truth.

The boundary for the territory, formerly under the Mandate, varied along the timeline between the 1920 San Remo Agreement until 1946 when the British Government released Transjordan from the Mandate and it transitioned from a protectorate to a self-governing nation. However, the remainder of the territory west of the Jordan River, was still a legal entity under the Administration of the British Government. There was no country or nation of Palestine and no government from by the Arab Palestinians.
.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority's illegal construction in Area C of Judea and Samaria is comparable to the method utilized by an anaconda to kill its prey: by coiling its body around its target and constricting it until it can no longer breathe.

That is the PA's goal: to suffocate the Jewish communities of Judea and Samaria, to prevent their expansion, and to occupy strategic locations while blocking major roads, particularly those leading to Jerusalem.

The PA's building has nothing to do with overcrowding; it is a strategic calculation designed with the help of the best cartographers and consultants from the European Union, which funds the PA with tens of millions of euros for this initiative.

If this weren't enough, the PA also carries out its illegal construction in a destructive manner, destroying every trace of natural terrain and archeological sites where Jewish civilization has been present for thousands of years.

(full article online)









						The PA's suffocation tactic
					

The illegal Palestinian Authority construction in Area C has nothing to do with overcrowding. It is part of a dangerous plan. Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians save Jewish woman attacked with stones near Hebron
					

Three Palestinians saved a Jewish woman who was hit in the head in a rock-throwing attack near Hebron.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I don't think you can grasp this topic.  You were given this answer in a previous response.
> 
> RE: *Posting #1382 The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate*​SUBTOPIC: Interpretation​
> 
> *(ANSWER) (EXCERPT)*
> 
> _◈  French-British Convention:_ Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for the Syria and Lebanon, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, 1924 League of Nations Treaty Series pp355 Registry No 564​​✦    The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows :​​✦   A commission shall be established within three months from the signature of the present convention to trace on the spot the boundary line laid down in Article I between the French and British mandatory territories.​​_◈  French-British Border Agreement of 1923_, 1924 League of Nations Treaty Series pp365 Registry No #565​​✦    The members of the Boundary Commission designated, in accordance with the terms of article 2 of the Convention 3 of the 23rd December 1920 for the purpose of fixing the line of the Syro-Palestinian frontier between the sea and El Hamm, concluded their labours and drew up a final report at Beyrouth on the 3rd February, 1922.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have given all these references before _(several times)_.  And the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians can ignore them for some superficial, frivolous, and senseless reasons.
> 
> I simply cannot understand where you get this notion _(mistakes of facts)_ that former territories under the mandates do not have a line separating political and geographically named areas.
> 
> There are some cases in which you know they have no factual basis, yet attempt to wear a hat of authority and try to deliberately deceive the discussion group by spreading such fallacious and erroneous material in order to support the various terrorist organizations.
> 
> *(Ω)*
> I am NOT an attorney.  But even a layman such as myself can plainly see through the Arab Palestinian veil of dark information that shrouds the truth.
> 
> The boundary for the territory, formerly under the Mandate, varied along the timeline between the 1920 San Remo Agreement until 1946 when the British Government released Transjordan from the Mandate and it transitioned from a protectorate to a self-governing nation. However, the remainder of the territory west of the Jordan River, was still a legal entity under the Administration of the British Government. There was no country or nation of Palestine and no government from by the Arab Palestinians.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


I am trying to find some relevance to my post in here.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I am trying to find some relevance to my post in here.


Indeed, you seem to be the only one with that problem.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:  What the hell?



P F Tinmore said:


> I am trying to find some relevance to my post in here.


*(REPLY)*

You asked the question...




I gave you the answer (_description and links_) just as you asked...  These were Treaties specific to the venue (_Registered and Openly accessible_...).

What silly ass game are you playing.




Most Respectfully,
R




.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:  What the hell?
> 
> 
> *(REPLY)*
> 
> You asked the question...
> 
> View attachment 534412
> I gave you the answer (_description and links_) just as you asked...  These were Treaties specific to the venue (_Registered and Openly accessible_...).
> 
> What silly ass game are you playing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


They were but they did not say what was asked.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> They were but they did not say what was asked.


I'm afraid this is just more spam. This seems to be a pattern.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I'm afraid this is just more spam. This seems to be a pattern.


Indeed, a whole page of stuff that does not address my post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, a whole page of stuff that does not address my post.


Indeed, you're choosing to spam the thread with that same excuse you use as one of several slogans: 

"how does that address my post?"

"Israeli propaganda bullshit"

Can you add to your list?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> They were but they did not say what was asked.


*(COMMENT)*

They outlined exactly what you asked for.

You just did not like the answer because it blows holes in your argument.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They outlined exactly what you asked for.
> 
> You just did not like the answer because it blows holes in your argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


This was the post in question.





__





						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

Where does it say that one country (Israel or any other nation) cannot control its borders?  Armistice lines are not borders.



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of these is a question, and one of these is a statement.



P F Tinmore said:


> This was the post in question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> Where does it say that one country (Israel or any other nation) cannot control its borders?  Armistice lines are not borders.
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com


*(COMMENT)*

Where does it say that one country _(Israel or any other nation)_ cannot control its borders? *It was actually MY question to YOU.*  It came from *Posting #20520 (This Thread)*.  Your source attribution leaves somewhat to be desired.  Let's make it clear, I answered your question.

On the Matter of your statement, that is not "generally true."  It depends on the agreement.

◈   The Syrian Agreement says: "Where the existing truce lines run along the international boundary between Syria and Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the boundary line" with some clarification.​​◈   The Lebanese Agreement says "The Armistice Demarcation Line should follow the international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine."​​◈   The Egyptian Agreement states:  "The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question."​​◈   The Jordanian Agreement says:  "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto."​
I give you only partial credit.  However, the Armistice Agreements with Jordan and Egypt have been superceded by Treaties.  So they only represent historical value.  The Lebanese Agreement has been superseded by the *Ltr of A/54/914 • S/2000/564  12 June 2000 *  To some extent, the Lebanese Agreement still has some life in it.  The Agreement "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties."

It is what it is.




Most Respectfully,
R

•. *Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement*
•. _HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT_
•  _LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT_
•. _EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> One of these is a question, and one of these is a statement.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where does it say that one country _(Israel or any other nation)_ cannot control its borders? *It was actually MY question to YOU.*  It came from *Posting #20520 (This Thread)*.  Your source attribution leaves somewhat to be desired.  Let's make it clear, I answered your question.
> 
> On the Matter of your statement, that is not "generally true."  It depends on the agreement.
> 
> ◈   The Syrian Agreement says: "Where the existing truce lines run along the international boundary between Syria and Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the boundary line" with some clarification.​​◈   The Lebanese Agreement says "The Armistice Demarcation Line should follow the international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine."​​◈   The Egyptian Agreement states:  "The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question."​​◈   The Jordanian Agreement says:  "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto."​
> I give you only partial credit.  However, the Armistice Agreements with Jordan and Egypt have been superceded by Treaties.  So they only represent historical value.  The Lebanese Agreement has been superseded by the *Ltr of A/54/914 • S/2000/564  12 June 2000 *  To some extent, the Lebanese Agreement still has some life in it.  The Agreement "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties."
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> •. *Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement*
> •. _HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT_
> •  _LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT_
> •. _EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT_


One thing that the Armistice Agreements tell us is that the armistice lines did not disturb Palestine's international borders. They remained intact as of 1949.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> One thing that the Armistice Agreements tell us is that the armistice lines did not disturb Palestine's international borders. They remained intact as of 1949.



None of the agreements were signed by Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> One thing that the Armistice Agreements tell us is that the armistice lines did not disturb Palestine's international borders. They remained intact as of 1949.


Are those the borders created by the Treaty of Lausanne which, as we know, invented the ''country of Pal'istan''. 

You never did identify those ''new states'' you claim were also invented. What ''new states'' would those be? Do they still exist?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, that is NOT true at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> One thing that the Armistice Agreements tell us is that the armistice lines did not disturb Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

1.  With the possible exception of the  _Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement_, the other three Armistice Agreements have been totally superceded.

2.  The boundaries given in the treaties/agreements were pertaining to the "Legal Entity" - Government of Palestine, not any territory that the Arab Palestinians can lay claim.  These boundaries pertain to the territories under a Mandate.

3.  There were no post-War boundaries to the territory under Mandate called Palestine until formalized by the French-British Convention and the agreement under the same name.  (Registry No 564 and 565). The boundaries currently are a border outlined by physical markers or geographic  features that establish sovereign control by that state marking its territory.  In the case of Israel, its borders are marked and maintained by the self-determination of its people.  In the case of Israel, the international borders are stated by treaties or the boundary established by the will of the people.



P F Tinmore said:


> They remained intact as of 1949.


*(COMMENT)*

Much has happened between the period 1949 and today.  In the case of Israel, the boundaries outline by the Armistice Agreements have evolved over time.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Much has happened between the period 1949 and today. In the case of Israel, the boundaries outline by the Armistice Agreements have evolved over time.


Boundaries evolve?

Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In the case of Israel, its borders are marked and maintained by the self-determination of its people.


Links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Boundaries evolve?
> 
> Links?











						Mapped: The Territorial Evolution of the U.S.
					

From the Thirteen Colonies to present-day USA, this animation is a detailed look at how borders have shifted throughout the nation's history.




					www.visualcapitalist.com
				




Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Links?







__





						i24NEWS
					






					www.i24news.tv
				




Link?


----------



## Hollie

UNWRA chief acknowledges antisemitism and glorification of terrorism in Palestinian textbooks
					

The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), Philippe Lazzarini, acknowledged that Palestinian textbooks contain problematic material, while still insisting that the agency takes steps to prevent it from being taught, without showing...




					www.eureporter.co
				




_The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the_ _Near East (UNRWA), Philippe Lazzarini, acknowledged that Palestinian textbooks contain problematic material, while still insisting that the agency takes steps to prevent it from being taught, without showing that how this is actually accomplished, _writes Yossi Lempkowicz.

That's all fine and dandy, Philippe, but we were told that UNRWA was an islamic terrorist training organization years ago. You people have done nothing since then?

Gee whiz. It's like you're a bunch of dishonest hacks / Islamic terrorist enablers.... or something.




			https://www.congress.gov/115/meeting/house/105508/documents/HHRG-115-FA13-20170202-SD001.pdf


----------



## Hollie

Unfortunately, Joe Biden wants to throw US welfare dollars at the islamic terrorists understanding that large percentages of that welfare directly benefits the various islamic terrorist franchises. 











						By Renewing Palestinian Aid, America Is Funding Terrorism - JINSA
					

Capt. Taylor Force was an Eagle Scout, a West Point graduate who served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and an all-around terrific young man. In 2016, on a university study trip to Israel, he was murdered by a Palestinian… Read more ›




					jinsa.org
				




Fortunately, bipartisan support coalesced to re-align misguided U.S. policy. In 2018, the Taylor Force Act became law, prohibiting American economic assistance which “directly benefits the Palestinian Authority” as long as the PA continues to pay financial rewards for terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



How many of his neighbors were launching terror rockets at Israel?


----------



## Hollie

The obvious question is, ''why''?











						Palestine urges US to remove PLO from terror list
					

Palestinian PM calls on Biden to expedite reopening of US Consulate in East Jerusalem - Anadolu Agency




					www.aa.com.tr
				




Palestinian Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh has called on the US administration to remove the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) from its list of terrorist organizations.

The call came during a meeting between Shtayyeh and a delegation from the US Congress Foreign Affairs Committee representing the Democratic Party in the West Bank city of Ramallah, according to a statement issued by the Palestinian cabinet.


----------



## Hollie

It’s almost comical at how just adept the islamic terrorist buffoons are at killing Pallys. From Hamas rockets that malfunction and fall on the heads of Pallys to secondary explosions of Pally munitions that kill civilians, it’s just one clown show after another. 











						IDF rejects Hamas claim it hit hospital, cites secondary blasts from arms stash
					

Responding to Gaza rocket fire on Israel, army says it hit rocket manufacturing facility and saw 'secondary explosions which are suspected of causing the damage to nearby hospital'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




*Responding to Gaza rocket fire on Israel, army says it hit rocket manufacturing facility and saw ‘secondary explosions which are suspected of causing the damage to nearby hospital’*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Are they confused about burning tires being a part of the gee-had?


----------



## Hollie

The caliphate doesn’t just fall off the gee-had tree.
















						Qatar opens Gaza artificial limb, rehab center after delays
					

Lack of qualified staff and funding had prevented Hamas from operating the facility since its construction in 2012




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

From the US Foreign Affairs Committee, we see Pally terrorism has become an industry in the territories occupied by the Pally terrorists. 








__





						- FINANCIALLY REWARDING TERRORISM IN THE WEST BANK
					





					www.govinfo.gov
				





But Palestinians are lured to terrorism with more than just 
words. Since 2003, it has been Palestinian law to reward 
Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails with a monthly 
paycheck--legislation which creates jihad. Under this act, the 
Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian Liberation 
Organization use a so-called ``martyrs' fund'' to pay the 
families of Palestinian prisoners and suicide bombers. One 
prominent Palestinian says that these inducements have become 
``sacred in Palestinian politics.''

    You know, as a member of one concerned family here today 
reminded me, these terrorists are not, in fact, lone rangers, 
they are not lone wolves acting from their independent hatred. 
Instead, these terrorists are the product of the programming 
done by the PA's perverted culture that glorifies the 
willingness to die or to spend time in prison in pursuit of 
killing or maiming Israelis. The PA programmed this hate. These 
financial rewards are the main way they accomplish this.

And, perversely, the PA uses a sliding scale: The more the 
mayhem, the longer the jail sentence, then the greater the 
financial reward. The highest payments go to those serving life 
sentences--to those who prove most brutal. And, as we will hear 
today, the PA allots $140 million of its budget for this 
purpose. The monthly salary ranges from $364 a month for 3 
years' imprisonment to over $3,000 a month for 30 years or 
more.


----------



## Hollie

"'Get'em while they're young'' 

The Pallys have become an industry that churns out little sociopaths who grow up to suicide bombers, gee-had addled islamic terrorists and social misfits.













						What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel | PMW Analysis
					

A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel




					palwatch.org
				




What did you learn in summer camp today? Young boy erases Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 8, 2021







A Palestinian boy who is participating in a Fatah summer camp in Nablus proudly holds up a drawing of “Palestine” that he drew at camp. The map erases the entire State of Israel.
The boy’s drawing shows the map used by the PA in all frameworks that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine.” “Palestine” is written at the top of the drawing, while to the north of “Palestine” is written “Lebanon,” to the east “Syria” and “Jordan,” to the west “the Mediterranean Sea,” and to the south “the Gulf of Aqaba.”


----------



## Hollie

With the Islamic terrorists continuing to wage their balloon gee-had, the IDF will need to initiate some pest control by way of precision building remodeling in the territories occupied by the various islamic terrorist franchises. 











						Gazan Terrorists Continue to Launch Incendiary Balloons - Hamodia.com
					

Gazan terrorists continued to launch incendiary balloons toward southern Israel as thousands of rioters clashed along the border fence with Israel. Photos




					hamodia.com
				





Gazan terrorists continued to launch incendiary balloons toward southern Israel as thousands of rioters clashed along the border fence with Israel.

Photos and videos posted online showed masked Hamas-affiliated terrorists holding pictures of Gazans killed in recent clashes with Israeli forces while they launched balloons in the direction of Israel.

There were no immediate reports of any fires in southern Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> With the Islamic terrorists continuing to wage their balloon gee-had, the IDF will need to initiate some pest control by way of precision building remodeling in the territories occupied by the various islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan Terrorists Continue to Launch Incendiary Balloons - Hamodia.com
> 
> 
> Gazan terrorists continued to launch incendiary balloons toward southern Israel as thousands of rioters clashed along the border fence with Israel. Photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hamodia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan terrorists continued to launch incendiary balloons toward southern Israel as thousands of rioters clashed along the border fence with Israel.
> 
> Photos and videos posted online showed masked Hamas-affiliated terrorists holding pictures of Gazans killed in recent clashes with Israeli forces while they launched balloons in the direction of Israel.
> 
> There were no immediate reports of any fires in southern Israel.


Time for Israel to bomb the crap out of more civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Time for Israel to bomb the crap out of more civilians.


The Pallys know that attacks aimed at Israel will prompt a response. When your islamic terrorist heroes sage gee-had from schools, hospitals and civilian areas, there will be civilian casualties.

I'm not sure you're complaining about Pally civilian casualties as you are among those those who will parade the bodies around like trophies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Pallys know that attacks aimed at Israel will prompt a response. When your islamic terrorist heroes sage gee-had from schools, hospitals and civilian areas, there will be civilian casualties.
> 
> I'm not sure you're complaining about Pally civilian casualties as you are among those those who will parade the bodies around like trophies.


  Israel attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes, places where it is normal for civilians to be.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes, places where it is normal for civilians to be.



Of course, that's where Hamas launches terror attacks from........


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> There was no country or nation of Palestine and no government from by the Arab Palestinians.


It is interesting that the Mandate document called Palestine a country many times.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> It is unteresting that the Mandate document called Palestine a country many times.



It's more interesting that there were no documents signed by Palestinians who weren't Jewish.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  Again with the purpose3fully and direct misleading information.







P F Tinmore said:


> It is interesting that the Mandate document called Palestine a country many times.


*(COMMENT)*

You know you are dreaming here.  There was no self-governing institution (country) run by Arab Palestinians in that territory under the Mandate.  In fact, by 1923, the Arab Palestinians rejected invitations to help form self-governing institutions for the third time.

From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate, the High Commissioner governed (_the Government of_) Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  Why?  *(RHETORICAL) * Because the Arab Palestinians refused to cooperate and participate.

_*(Ω)*_

Let's get real... * IF* had the Arab Palestinians just cooperated once in the Quarter-Century the British High Commissioner governed, *THEN* the outcome we see today might have turned out much differently.  Whatever the Arab Palestinians complain about today was an outcome that they had a hand in forging.  To Blame it all on the Israelis (or Jews) is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel attacks Palestinians in their villages, neighborhoods, and homes, places where it is normal for civilians to be.


Your Islamic terrorist heroes wage gee-had attacks from villages, neighborhoods, and homes, places where it is normal for civilians to be. 

What is comical is that your islamic terrorist heroes will stage silly fashion parades, dressed in military uniforms, after the Israelis respond to gee-had attacks. 

Aren't we told most every day that ''martyrdom'' is the most lofty ideal for the good Pally?


----------



## Hollie

*The Arab-Moslem squatters / land grabbers sure do spend an inordinate amount of time claiming to possess what was never theirs. *​​​​​​“Haifa is mine, Jaffa is mine… My land is mine – from my river to my sea,” PA TV - all of Israel is “Palestine” to be liberated​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 5, 2021

*Palestinian boy: Jerusalem “is occupied by the Israelis, and we are demanding to liberate it”*​
*PA TV song calls for the elimination of Israel, “Palestine will be liberated”*​



The Palestinian Authority relentlessly indoctrinates the Palestinian population with the message that all of the State of Israel is “Palestine,” - delegitimizing Israel’s existence in any borders. The host on official PA TV recited a poem reiterating this ideology - that all of Israel is “Palestine” from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea:


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Again with the purpose3fully and direct misleading information.
> 
> 
> View attachment 535582
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You know you are dreaming here.  There was no self-governing institution (country) run by Arab Palestinians in that territory under the Mandate.  In fact, by 1923, the Arab Palestinians rejected invitations to help form self-governing institutions for the third time.
> 
> From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate, the High Commissioner governed (_the Government of_) Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  Why?  *(RHETORICAL) * Because the Arab Palestinians refused to cooperate and participate.
> 
> _*(Ω)*_
> 
> Let's get real... * IF* had the Arab Palestinians just cooperated once in the Quarter-Century the British High Commissioner governed, *THEN* the outcome we see today might have turned out much differently.  Whatever the Arab Palestinians complain about today was an outcome that they had a hand in forging.  To Blame it all on the Israelis (or Jews) is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Susan Abulhawa left.


----------



## Hollie

Those racist, islamophobic Egyptians need to stop their anti-Pal'istanian policies. 

This is apartheid I tell 'ya. 













						Hamas Accuses Egypt of ‘Murder’ After 3 Palestinians Die in Smuggling Tunnel
					

Hamas supporters take part in a protest against Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to postpone planned parliamentary elections, in the …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




i24 News – The Palestinian terrorist group Hamas on Friday announced it recovered the bodies of three men from a smuggling tunnel along the Egyptian border with Gaza.

“Civil defense teams found three bodies under the ground near the border, south of Rafah” city after part of the tunnel collapsed on Thursday, interior ministry spokesman Iyad al-Bozom said in a statement


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The next gaggle of little islamo-bots / sociopaths is being prepared for a miserable, possibly short life filled with little more than a pathology of self-hate, islamic terrorist dictators who will steal from them while being groomed for an act of self-destruction. 













						Maps of “Palestine” in PA summer camps teach children about a world without Israel | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority unremittingly teaches Palestinians - and in particular youth - that all of Israel is “Palestine” and that Israel has no right to exist in any borders




					palwatch.org
				




Maps of “Palestine” in PA summer camps teach children about a world without Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Sep 6, 2021
The Palestinian Authority unremittingly teaches Palestinians - and in particular youth - that all of Israel is “Palestine” and that Israel has no right to exist in any borders. One way the PA instills the message is through activities in summer camps arranged by the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports.

This year too, Palestinian children were taught that there is no Israel but only “occupied Palestine” as they spent time drawing maps in which all of Israel and the PA areas are painted as one country and in the colors of the Palestinian flag.

The following are maps of “Palestine” made by or shown to children in the PA summer camps which are run by the PLO:





A video showed drawings of the PA’s map that shows all of Israel and the PA areas as one “Palestine” made by children in PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports summer camps.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


>


This is strange. P F Tinmore has assured us that the Pallys don't attack outside of their country's borders..... the borders that were, you know, invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne along with bunch of 'new states'. What 'new states'? He won't tell us.


----------



## Hollie

The happy-fun islamic terrorist enclave called Gaza received from accountability for the balloon gee-had being waged.

Gee whiz. An islamic terrorist rocket manufacturing facility in a civilian area next to a mosque. I wonder if any korans were martyred?






__





						Israel airstrikes Hamas site in Gaza after incendiary balloons attack
					





					www.msn.com
				




Israel launched airstrikes on what it said was a Hamas military site in the Gaza Strip early on Tuesday, after incendiary balloons were sent into Israeli territory, the army said.

Fighter jets struck a Hamas rocket manufacturing workshop as well as a Hamas military compound in Khan Yunis, a city in southern Gaza, according to the army statement.

The army said the compound houses a cement factory used for building tunnels used for terror attacks "and is purposefully located in a civilian area adjacent to a mosque and a water treatment site."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


I guess Shirley Temper is well past her useful idiot prime.


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys are completely divorced from facts and truth..











						Media Bias Provides Cover for Rashida Tlaib’s Efforts to Hide Palestinian Terror
					

Reps. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) listen as Acting Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan testifies before the House …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




On August 28, United States Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) ignited a firestorm after posting a claim on Twitter that Israel was dehumanizing Palestinians by not returning the body of an assailant who in June had attempted to ram a car into IDF soldiers before exiting the vehicle while wielding a knife. She was subsequently shot dead.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Pallys are completely divorced from facts and truth..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Media Bias Provides Cover for Rashida Tlaib’s Efforts to Hide Palestinian Terror
> 
> 
> Reps. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) listen as Acting Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan testifies before the House …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On August 28, United States Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) ignited a firestorm after posting a claim on Twitter that Israel was dehumanizing Palestinians by not returning the body of an assailant who in June had attempted to ram a car into IDF soldiers before exiting the vehicle while wielding a knife. She was subsequently shot dead.


What value does Israel get for holding bodies?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> What value does Israel get for holding bodies?


What value does Hamas get for holding two mentally ill Israelis?









						2 Israelis Who Entered Gaza Held Incommunicado
					

(Jerusalem) – Two Israeli men with serious mental health conditions who crossed separately from Israel into t




					www.hrw.org


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys may despise the Great Satan but they sure like Great Satan welfare dollars and Great Satan technology.




			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/09/06/a-ticking-time-bomb-facebook-refuses-to-ban-group-inciting-terrorism-online/
		


The Lach Yerushalayim organization and right-wing watchdog group Im Tirzu have contacted Facebook upon learning a Palestinian media outlet with over one million followers has been using the social media platform to incites terrorism online.

The network, by the name of Jerusalem Square, operates from the city, issuing daily reports on terrorist operatives killed or wounded while working against "operation forces."

In one such post on Aug. 12, the network commemorated the 27th anniversary of the "martyrdom" of terrorists who abducted Sgt. Nachshon Wachsman, a dual US-Israeli citizen, in 1994 and then murdered him when IDF forces attempted to rescue him


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> The Pallys may despise the Great Satan but they sure like Great Satan welfare dollars and Great Satan technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/09/06/a-ticking-time-bomb-facebook-refuses-to-ban-group-inciting-terrorism-online/
> 
> 
> 
> The Lach Yerushalayim organization and right-wing watchdog group Im Tirzu have contacted Facebook upon learning a Palestinian media outlet with over one million followers has been using the social media platform to incites terrorism online.
> 
> The network, by the name of Jerusalem Square, operates from the city, issuing daily reports on terrorist operatives killed or wounded while working against "operation forces."
> 
> In one such post on Aug. 12, the network commemorated the 27th anniversary of the "martyrdom" of terrorists who abducted Sgt. Nachshon Wachsman, a dual US-Israeli citizen, in 1994 and then murdered him when IDF forces attempted to rescue him



They use Facebook?
Don't they know it was created by a Jew?


----------



## Hollie

Shocking,actually, to discover that an islamic terrorist franchise could be a corrupt dictatorship. 







			https://ademocracynet.com/index.php?page=articles&id=3392&action=Detail&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_mmPTF9RF.DLE9YFelXQOGNdPPXsubNy9xrZUthsurk4-1631138498-0-gqNtZGzNAhCjcnBszQi9
		



 
​​
Hamas corruption weighs heavily on Gaza*By Tamir Haddad*

Recently, an official of the Finance Ministry in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip announced that since 2006 the office had not received a single report of corruption. Whether or not this is true, the fact is that Hamas corruption is not only pervasive in Gaza, it has also been detrimental to the greater social and economic good.

The principal vehicle of Hamas corruption is excessive taxation. One of Gaza’s biggest revenue cows, tunnel smuggling into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, has borne the brunt of this graft. For the over 1,200 tunnels, tariffs of up to 15 percent are imposed on the thousands of tons of goods being brought in daily. Yet most are collected off the books, and of the 2,400 near-millionaires in Gaza, most are Hamas affiliates responsible for monitoring tunnels, according to Palestinian Authority officials. This is why when private tunnels began drawing business away from tunnels run by those close to Hamas, the movement declared them illegal, and implemented a mandatory $3,000 license to continue operation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Shocking,actually, to discover that an islamic terrorist franchise could be a corrupt dictatorship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ademocracynet.com/index.php?page=articles&id=3392&action=Detail&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_mmPTF9RF.DLE9YFelXQOGNdPPXsubNy9xrZUthsurk4-1631138498-0-gqNtZGzNAhCjcnBszQi9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​​
> Hamas corruption weighs heavily on Gaza*By Tamir Haddad*
> 
> Recently, an official of the Finance Ministry in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip announced that since 2006 the office had not received a single report of corruption. Whether or not this is true, the fact is that Hamas corruption is not only pervasive in Gaza, it has also been detrimental to the greater social and economic good.
> 
> The principal vehicle of Hamas corruption is excessive taxation. One of Gaza’s biggest revenue cows, tunnel smuggling into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, has borne the brunt of this graft. For the over 1,200 tunnels, tariffs of up to 15 percent are imposed on the thousands of tons of goods being brought in daily. Yet most are collected off the books, and of the 2,400 near-millionaires in Gaza, most are Hamas affiliates responsible for monitoring tunnels, according to Palestinian Authority officials. This is why when private tunnels began drawing business away from tunnels run by those close to Hamas, the movement declared them illegal, and implemented a mandatory $3,000 license to continue operation.


Name a government that is not corrupt.

I await your response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Name a government that is not corrupt.
> 
> I await your response.


How predictable of you to excuse corrupt, Islamic terrorist dictatorships.

I await a silly cut and paste youtube video.


----------



## Hollie

The order of operations could use a revision. Why not let the islamic terrorists install the equipment and then JDAM the bejeezus out of them. 













						Israel Captures Ventilation Equipment Meant for Hamas Terror Tunnels
					

Israel’s security services were successful in thwarting an attempt to transfer advanced filtering equipment from the Hebron area to the Gaza Strip, apparently on its way to be fitted in Hamas’ ter




					www.jewishpress.com
				






Captured ventilation equipment for Hamas terror tunnels. Sept. 1, 2021

Israel’s security services were successful in thwarting an attempt to transfer advanced filtering equipment from the Hebron area to the Gaza Strip, apparently on its way to be fitted in Hamas’ terror tunnels


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Here’s a shocker. Hamas is just as corrupt and retrograde as its competition in the West Bank











						Hamas’s corruption
					

Chalk it up again to corruption, the virus that continues to infect governments across the Middle East.




					m.jpost.com
				





recent poll indicated that the PA’s flat-lining support stems, in part, from the widespread perception (more than 70 percent of those polled) that the longtime leaders of the Palestinian movement have become irreparably corrupt. From allegations of squelching free speech to amassing great personal wealth, the PA has been on the ropes.

But a closer look reveals that – surprisingly – Hamas is not much better in the corruption department. The poll that slams the PA, conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, also found that 57% of Palestinians believe there is widespread corruption in Gaza’s institutions, too. Thus, despite the successful electoral campaign in 2006 that promised to clean up corruption, it appears that the Islamist faction that rules Gaza has succumbed to the temptation of financial vice.


----------



## Hollie

Ultimately, tribal cultures seem to gravitate toward ruthless dictators.  ​
Saddam Hussein among Fatah’s role models for kids - What did you learn in summer camp today? #2​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 13, 2021

*“We do not forget to remind our children of those who brought us glory” – text on images of Arafat, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, and ex-Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein*​





In a Fatah summer camp, Palestinian children were taught that arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin, and ex-Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein are role models.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lamis Deek speech at Yaakov Fauci Protest in East Meadow, Long Island​


----------



## Hollie

Hamas has an image problem. They tend to get a bit antsy when members of their Cult go rogue and expose the Cult practices.

Maybe it's time for more silly fashion parades. 














						Hamas on advocacy blitz to counter exposé of corruption by 2nd ‘Son of Hamas’
					

Terror group launches public display of support for co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef after a second of his sons tells Israeli TV of its cynicism and his disillusionment




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




The Gaza-based Hamas terror group has launched an expansive effort to counter an Israeli television news interview with the son of one of the terror group’s founding fathers in which he accused the organization of being corrupt, power-hungry, racist and bad for the Palestinians, Channel 12 news reported Thursday, a day after it broadcast the interview.

The “public show of unity” reportedly includes rallies, a media blitz and a wide-reaching social media campaign aimed at discrediting both the claimant and his critique that Hamas is not truly concerned with the welfare of the Palestinian people.


----------



## Hollie

Just guessing here, but I suspect Hamas is still willing to take our kuffar, Great Satan welfare dollars. 










						Hamas praises Taliban for causing American ‘downfall’ in Afghanistan
					

Senior official in terror group lauds Afghan Islamists for rejecting US 'compromises,' democracy, and elections; PLO official in Ramallah condemns 'dark and brutal' Taliban




					www.google.com


----------



## Hollie

It's almost beyond belief that the international community continues to prop up one islamic terrorist dictator after another. Generation after generation of oxygen-wasting islamobots proceed from cradle to grave with nothing but self-hate that defines their lives. 











						Corruption in the Palestinian Authority
					

What will be Mahmoud Abbas’ Legacy? - Corruption in the Palestinian Authority - Yoni Ben Menachem




					jcpa.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The International Committee of the Red Cross has been the focus of protests in Gaza in support of the six prisoners who escaped from Gilboa Prison this week.

On Thursday, the ICRC in Gaza issued a statement on its responsibilities vis a vis Palestinian prisoners:



> The ICRC works on the basis of confidential dialogue with authorities. That's why we have full access to detainees. Having access to all places of detention, being able to meet detainees, and using our confidential dialogue to advocate for their interests is our priority.
> Our visits to places of detention aim at assessing the treatment of detainees and their conditions of detention with the ultimate objective of ensuring humane treatment and acceptable conditions of detention.
> Following the events of this week, we continue our detention activities and visits in Israeli prisons. Our teams will continue to monitor the situation in terms of the treatment of detainees and their conditions of detention.
> It is however the responsibility of the detaining authorities to ensure calm while dignity and humane treatment of the detainees are preserved.






> Should detainees be transferred in the future, we will continue monitoring their treatment and conditions and engage the authorities in our bilateral dialogue if needed. We ensure families of detainees moved are informed so they can stay in touch with their loved ones.


That isn't enough for those who want to see all terrorists free to attack Jews with impunity.

Today, Islamic Jihad placed dozens of armed terrorists outside the headquarters of the ICRC in Gaza, and organized a demonstration beyond that, in an attempt to intimidate the organization to go beyond its normal areas of responsibility and to openly support the escaped terrorists.





> Dozens of Al-Baha Force members of the Al-Quds Brigades, the military arm of the Islamic Jihad, were present at noon in front of the Red Cross headquarters in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Al-Baha forces carried all their military equipment in a strong message to the international community and to the Red Cross to take urgent action to save the lives of the prisoners before it is too late.




Terrorists intimidating an international aid organization is not newsworthy, of course.

(full article online)










						Islamic Jihad intimidates ICRC in Gaza to support escaped prisoners
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Residents of the PA city of Beita in Samaria burned an effigy of a Jew last night, including a skullcap and long sideburns.

"The world is silent," commented MK Itamar Ben-Gvir (Religious Zionism) "Had this been done by Jews, the ISA would have dropped everything to focus on it. They are clearly biased."

(full article online)









						Rioters burn effigy of Jews in Arab village
					

Rioters in the PA city of Beita burned an effigy of a Jew last night. Samaria Regional Council head Yossi Dagan called the act 'Barbaric.".




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Sheikh Bilal Abu Hassan, a mosque preacher from Jenin, was surprised last week to receive a letter from the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Waqf and Religious Affairs informing him of the decision to fire him.

Abu Hassan lost his job because of a khutbah (sermon) he recently delivered during Friday prayers at one of Jenin’s mosques and in which he heaped praise on the Palestinian factions, including Hamas, in the Gaza Strip.

Referring to the Israel-Hamas war last May, Abu Hassan applauded the “Joint Operations Room,” which consists of various Palestinian factions that operate as a quasi-army against Israel. “Our Joint Operations Room has unified the Palestinians,” he said from the minbar, a pulpit in a mosque where the imam (leader of prayers) stands to deliver sermons. “This is the true meaning of Palestinian national unity.”

-------
The PA is being forced to toe the line and join the Palestinian public’s campaign of solidarity with the fugitives and the other prisoners because it does not want to be seen as sitting on the fence or, worse, being in collusion with Israel. The PA has long been facing severe criticism for its ongoing security coordination with Israel. Moreover, it regularly comes under attack for failing to secure the release of prisoners.

This week, at the Jenin refugee camp, home of Zakaria Zubeidi, the only Fatah member among the fugitives, even prominent Fatah activists were critical of Abbas because of his alleged rapprochement with the Israeli government and the Biden administration. The activists accused the PA leadership of “abandoning” its supporters in the Jenin area, especially the armed men who are wanted by Israel.

To ensure that the mosque preachers abide by the instructions, the PA security forces regularly deploy informants to the mosques to listen to the sermons and report to their handlers.

As far as the PA is concerned, criticism of senior Palestinian officials, especially during Friday prayers, is a crime that can even land the perpetrator in prison. The same applies to any preacher who dares to heap praise on Hamas or other groups opposed to the policies of the PA leadership.

The PA is not opposed to mass demonstrations in the West Bank in solidarity with the Palestinian prisoners. But the PA leaders also know that an escalation could deteriorate into another all-out war with Israel, something that is likely to further undermine the PA’s credibility and standing and boost the popularity of Hamas and PIJ, as was the case after the last Israel-Hamas confrontation in May.

There are two issues that are considered the most explosive and sensitive among the Palestinians: Security prisoners and Al-Aqsa Mosque. If the Palestinians decide to launch another intifada, it will be over one or both of these issues.

The dismissal of Abu Hassan and the continued crackdown on Hamas and PIJ members is yet another sign of mounting tensions between the PA and Hamas.

The latest tensions began immediately after the last war in the Gaza Strip, when thousands of Palestinians took to the streets in the West Bank to celebrate Hamas’s “victory” over Israel. Scores of Palestinians have since been arrested or summoned for interrogation for participating in the pro-Hamas demonstrations or voicing support for the Islamist movement on social media platforms.

The PA crackdown marks the end of a short-lived honeymoon with Hamas that began more than a year ago. The two parties have been at loggerheads since 2006, when Hamas won the Palestinian parliamentary election. The crisis reached its peak in the summer of 2007, when Hamas seized control of the entire Gaza Strip after toppling the PA.

(full article online)









						No escape from the growing Palestinian internecine tensions
					

PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS: This week’s startling jailbreak from Gilboa Prison by six convicts is seen by many Palestinians as an embarrassment not only for Israel, but for the PA as well.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Qatar’s envoy to Gaza said on Friday that efforts to send aid from his country to the Gaza Strip, including to employees of the Hamas government, were off after the Palestinian Authority backed out of the deal.

Qatar pledged $500 million for Gaza following the May 10-21 conflict that saw heavy bombardments in the Strip and intense rocket fire into Israel.









						Qatari envoy says cash transfer to Gaza off after PA backs out of deal
					

Palestinian Authority banks were set to send the money that would fund civil servants in Hamas-ruled Strip, but pulled out fearing exposure to sanctions




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

Strange, that. I found nothing on the Israeli government website that urged caution for Israelis traveling to the UK indicating the potential for attacks by heavily armed groups of Lutherans or Presbyterians. 

Those in the UK traveling to Israel, on the other hand, face any number of threats from any number of islamic terrorist franchises. 









						Terrorism - The Occupied Palestinian Territories travel advice
					

Latest travel advice for the Occupied Palestinian Territories, including how to stay safe during the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic and information on returning to the UK.




					www.gov.uk
				




Attacks could be indiscriminate, including in crowded areas, government, military and police installations and against personnel, transportation networks, businesses with Western interests. Areas where foreign nationals and tourists are known to gather may be at higher risk of attack. You should be particularly vigilant in these areas and follow any specific advice of the local security authorities.

Be vigilant, monitor media reports and keep up to date with travel advice. Make sure you are familiar with contact details for the emergency services (in Israel - dial 100; in the West Bank and Gaza - dial 101).


----------



## Hollie

Who says the Ummah's girls dont have a role to play in mass murder / suicide acts that define Pally society?





			https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1057610X.2019.1575027?journalCode=uter20
		


Palestinian women have played an increasingly active role in terrorist activities in the past two decades as part of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamist occupiers have spent generations making these bellicose claims.​​​​Fatah in violence-promoting post: “We will redeem you with our blood, Palestine”​Official Fatah Facebook page  | Jan 26, 2020






Image and text posted on the official Fatah Facebook page

*Posted text and text on image:* “We will redeem you with our blood, #Palestine”
The image shows a rioter in a Palestinian flag shirt with his head masked in a_ keffiyeh_ (Arab headdress) throwing rocks as a fire burns in the background and a Palestinian flag appears in the midst of smoke. At the bottom left is the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas. To the right of the logo is written: “[Fatah] Mobilization and Organization Commission – Information Office”


----------



## Hollie

Early retirement from the gee-had. 








__





						One Palestinian dead after attempted attack on Israeli police
					





					www.msn.com
				




Israeli police shot and killed a Palestinian man on Friday after the man tried to stab the officers, according to reports.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reports to cops by local residents who encountered the escapees were instrumental in their capture; trackers following discarded items and footprints in the dirt did the rest​
(full article online)









						Exhausted, out of food: How 4 fugitives were caught, with help of Arab Israelis
					

Reports to cops by local residents who encountered the escapees were instrumental in their capture; trackers following discarded items and footprints in the dirt did the rest




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Reports to cops by local residents who encountered the escapees were instrumental in their capture; trackers following discarded items and footprints in the dirt did the rest​
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exhausted, out of food: How 4 fugitives were caught, with help of Arab Israelis
> 
> 
> Reports to cops by local residents who encountered the escapees were instrumental in their capture; trackers following discarded items and footprints in the dirt did the rest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com



AWESOME!!!


----------



## Esdraelon

Art__Allm said:


> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?


They are fewer than 9 million people, living on a postage stamp-sized piece of land.  They do not invade other nations and take land.  How do people negotiate with them?  Leave them the hell alone.  Israel doesn't spend time threatening the world with destruction.  You left out the key element there, PaliSymp.  They'd use nukes IF they were being overrun.  Don't try to genocide their children and erryting be airee.


----------



## Esdraelon

Art__Allm said:


> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.


Nice try.  The Issa of Islam is not the Jesus of the Bible.  One claims to be God, the other will fall in line behind the "Mahdi" or "rightly guided one".  Interesting fact - when you look at the scriptures that describe the false prophet of the book of Revelation, it perfectly aligns with the description of your "Issa" in end-time eschatology.

Your religion has been a pestilence to this world since it first began with that crime boss of the desert, Muhammad.  You live in peace with no one unless they become Muslim and your religion will eventually lead to a nuclear war that will kill billions.  Islam and all who practice the Fundamentalist tenets of it are evil.  Fortunately, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob (Israel) is in control and the day is coming when your kind will only be a memory.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


>



Shot the shit out of him.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Israel's Fifth Column.

"One last Occupation in the world" ???   Clearly the MK is not familiar with all the British colonies and all other places which are still being occupied by European Christians and Middle Eastern Muslims.   North Cyprus rings a bell?
Teacher!!!    Teacher  !!!!! )
-----------

MK Ayman Odeh, chairman of the Joint Arab List, wants all imprisoned terrorists to be freed.


In a Saturday night interview with Israel's "Meet the Press" program, Odeh said, "I have a dream that they will all be freed, that a Palestinian state will be founded alongside Israel."

"Me, my dream is that there will be no more prisons, there will be no more occupation."

"People escaped from prison - we need to close all of the prisons. All of these prisoners need to be in the Palestinian state which will be founded alongside Israel. The occupation is the root of all evil. There is only one last occupation in the entire world - what Israel does to the Palestinian nation."










						MK Ayman Odeh: 'My dream is that all prisoners should be free'
					

'People escaped from prison - we need to close all the prisons,' Joint Arab List's MK Ayman Odeh says. 'The occupation is the root of all evil.'




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

To be sure, the problems at the prison that led up to the escape were inexcusable. But the Israeli prison system will lick its wounds, examine its mistakes, and fix the problems. That's what Israelis do - keep improving and learning from mistakes.





Palestinian Arabs don't think that way. To them, everything is about honor - the Jews must be not defeated but humiliated. Victories are based on perception, not facts. 

The honor/shame society, with its emphasis on how things look and not ho they are, cannot win against a society that is fact-based. One needs to be able to admit mistakes to improve, and the Palestinians who blame all of their problems on the Jews cannot grow beyond their own myths.

This is why the Arab states have been turning away from the Palestinian cause - because the Palestinian refusal to accept a state and to stop their internal fighting is shameful to the entire Arab world, and at some point the shame has caused them to stop wanting to be associated with people who have shamed the entire Arab world.

Palestinian groups are trying to escalate this prison escape into something much bigger, into a new intifada. They will use any excuse to try to do that, and there are multiple attempts to do that every year, as we saw when Israel placed cameras near the Temple Mount. The groups try to direct Palestinian emotion of any kind into a new war.  Usually such attempts fail, but this is hard to predict. Palestinian prisoners are heroes and new measures to frustrate future escape attempts will upset the masses. The Palestinian Authority is trying to ride this wave of emotion just as Hamas and Islamic Jihad are. 

Both the "honor" of the escape and the "shame" of the captures elicit emotions, and the Palestinian groups want to gain power based on these emotions. The Gaza groups try to shame the PA and the PA tries to shame Hamas. Facts are secondary.

You simply cannot understand the Middle East without understanding how pivotal the honor/shame culture is - and how self-defeating it is. Arab nations are starting to catch on, but there is a long way to go.

(full article online)









						The Gilboa prison episode: A perfect example of honor/shame
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(While Arab countries seek peace and cooperation with Israel: )


The Taliban’s reconquering of Afghanistan has reenergized the global jihad’s war against the West, inspiring other regional Islamist and extremist movements, including those of the Palestinians.
Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad see the U.S. pullout from Afghanistan as vindicating their longstanding ideological claims that patience pays off and that “resistance” can defeat the American-led Western alliance and dismantle the State of Israel.
Congratulating the Taliban on August 17, 2021, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said, “The demise of the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan is a prelude to the demise of the Israeli occupation of the land of Palestine.”
Palestinian statements of support for the Taliban should be understood in the context of the fundamentalist groups’ ideological rejection of America and Israel as infidels seeking to control the lands of Islam.
Abdullah Azzam, a Palestinian scholar and cleric, is widely considered the “father of the global jihad” and served as a mentor to Osama bin Laden. Azzam laid the groundwork for the establishment of al-Qaeda and the Pakistani jihadist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which carried out the deadly Mumbai, India, attack in 2008, killing 175 people.
Palestinian “human rights” organizations sought to undermine the American mission in Afghanistan, submitting complaints to the International Criminal Court (ICC) charging U.S. military forces in Afghanistan and the CIA with “war crimes” and “crimes against humanity.”
The Taliban victory in Afghanistan makes it impossible for Palestinian Islamists to agree to any U.S. peace proposal that would require any Palestinian concessions. The Taliban’s takeover and the U.S. withdrawal have legitimized and empowered Hamas as the new standard for “resistance” against Israel.

(full article online)









						The Taliban’s Palestinian Partners: Implications for the Middle East Peace Process
					

Their common goal is driving the American and Israeli crusaders from the Middle East - The Taliban’s Palestinian Partners: Implications for the Middle East Peace Process




					jcpa.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

It appears that Sinwar’s perception of the situation has undergone a fundamental change. After his election as Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip in 2017, he tried to improve the civilian and economic situation in the area along three channels. First, vis-à-vis Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas: with the inter-organizational reconciliation initiative in 2017, he showed willingness to return civilian management of the Gaza Strip (but not security control) to the PA. Second, vis-à-vis Israel: through an attempt to reach understandings for a prolonged ceasefire in return for reconstruction of the Gaza Strip, removal of the so-called "siege," and a deal for an exchange of prisoners and the bodies of Israeli soldiers missing-in-action. Third, vis-à-vis Egypt: by means of an effort to cast himself as a responsible actor who would not challenge the Egyptians, and would halt aid to terrorist groups in Sinai. The channels with Abbas and Israel came to a stalemate, and Egyptian efforts to promote a removal of the "siege" and an exchange of prisoners between Hamas and Israel also failed. Furthermore, Sinwar almost lost his position in the Hamas leadership elections in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. The experience taught him that when the situation is quiet and calm, Israel has no reason to ease the restrictions on the Gaza Strip or to advance an arrangement. The way to "extort" concessions from Israel is to initiate unexpected events and wage violence from the Gaza Strip.


Hamas's motivation for escalation now is related to its distress at the worsening situation, once its alleged strategic successes in Operation Guardian of the Walls did not translate into achievements in terms of reconstruction of the Gaza Strip. In addition, the mechanism for transferring money from Qatar via the UN excluded the transfer of money to Hamas employees and its various institutions in the Gaza Strip. In Hamas’s view, the sole means of pressure available to it is its power to inflict damage through unpredictable behavior, such as the rocket fire at Jerusalem that ignited Operation Guardian of the Walls and the escalation in recent days. Hamas seeks to wage a campaign of attrition that will exhaust Israel through an ongoing campaign of harassment shifting between a number of fronts: terrorism and mob violence from the Gaza Strip, incitement in Jerusalem, rocket fire from Lebanon, and encouragement of terrorism in the West Bank. The organization believes that Israel will not begin a large-scale military conflict in the Gaza Strip now.

(full article online)



			https://www.inss.org.il/publication/hamas-reason/


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to calculations made by Palestinian Media Watch, based on the official PA terrorist salary pay scale, prior to the escape of the terrorists, the PA had already paid them a minimum cumulative sum of *3,728,600 shekels ($1,165,125)*.

Leading the payments was *Mahmoud Ardah*, who was arrested in 1996 and sentenced to life and another 15 years. To reward Ardah for his terrorist activities, to date the PA has paid him a total of *1,156,000 shekels ($361,230)*. For the last 60 months, Ardah had been receiving 8,000 shekels ($2,471). On Sept. 21, he will complete 25 years in prison. Accordingly, in his September “pay check”, he will receive a salary rise to 10,000 shekels/month ($3,089)

The second highest paid of the escaped terrorists is *Muhammad Ardah*, an Islamic Jihad member who was put on trial and convicted for his part in initiating and executing a suicide bombing on Nov. 29, 2001, in which 3 people were murdered and many others were wounded. To reward Ardah for blowing up a bus, the PA has already paid him a total of *903,200 shekels ($282,235)*. Arrested in May 2002, this Ardah receives 7,000 shekels/month ($2,162). He will receive a salary increase in May 2022.

The two Ardah’s are followed by *Yaqub Qaderi*, who carried out a shooting attack in 2002 in which Yosef Ajami was murdered and a foreign worker was wounded. Arrested in 2003, to reward Qaderi for murdering an Israeli, the PA has paid him a total of *831,800 shekels ($259,923)*. His current monthly salary is 7,000 shekels ($2,162).

The next highest paid of the terrorist escapees is *Ayham Kamamji* who murdered young Eliyahu Ashri in 2006, and planned to blow up a bus filled with passengers using an exploding car carrying a massive explosive approximately 100 kilograms in weight. To reward Kamamji for murdering an Israeli teenager and planning another massive attack, the PA has paid him a total of *687,000 shekels ($214,676)*. Two months ago, having completed 15 years in prison, Kamamji received a pay rise from 6,000 ($1,853) to 7,000 shekels/month ($2,162). Kamanji has not yet been re-captured.

The next highest paid terrorist escapee is *Zakariya Zubeidi*, a terrorist who commanded the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, Fatah’s terror wing, in Jenin. As a reward for his terror activities, since his arrest in February 2019 the PA has paid Zubeidi a total of *124,000 shekels ($38,747)*.

The 2004 PA Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners and the regulations promulgated by the PA codify the PA’s payments to the terrorist prisoners. The law and regulations provide that a terrorist prisoner’s salary will rise in accordance with the time he spends in prison. Before his current arrest, Zubeidi had spent a cumulative period of five years in prison for other terrorist activities. When he was arrested in February 2019, Zubeidi did not receive the salary of a “starting terrorist prisoner” but rather the salary of a five year prison veteran. Accordingly, every month the PA pays Zubeidi an additional 4,000 shekels ($1,236).  

(full article online)









						3,728,600 reasons the escaped terrorists chose to return to prison quietly | PMW Analysis
					

According to calculations made by Palestinian Media Watch, based on the official PA terrorist salary pay scale, prior to the escape of the terrorists, the PA had already paid them a minimum cumulative sum of $1,165,125




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Pallys are decrying. We can't have decrying Pallys. 












						Palestinians Decry Israeli Arabs for Helping Police Capture Jail-breaking Terrorists
					

Palestinians in the West Bank decried Israeli Arabs following reports they helped Israeli police locate four Palestinian fugitives who...




					www.breitbart.com
				




Palestinians in the West Bank decried Israeli Arabs following reports that they helped Israeli police locate four Palestinian fugitives who escaped from a maximum security prison last week


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

El-Kurd will publish his first essay about the Arab-Israeli conflict in the coming days, introducing the magazine’s million followers to his radical viewpoints, as HonestReporting detailed in July.

Indeed, for those who have followed the writer since he gained notoriety by protesting against Jews seeking to reclaim ownership of properties in the eastern part of Jerusalem that were confiscated from them between 1948 and 1967 when Jordan occupied the holy city, El-Kurd’s skewed interpretation of “journalism” is crystal clear.

In fact, El-Kurd’s Twitter feed demonstrated what The Nation’s latest addition defines as “Palestinian resistance;” that is, the murder of Jewish Israelis. Just two days before his hiring was announced, he rejoiced as six Palestinian terrorists broke out of Israel’s maximum-security Gilboa Prison.

“I am going to bed with a smile on my face and dreaming of the day all prisons are abolished,” El-Kurd tweeted, calling the incident “excellent.”

Moreover, The Nation’s new correspondent regularly downplays war crimes by Hamas, another US-designated terrorist organization. El-Kurd has incited violence and glorified terrorism, recently stating that he mourns “all of our [Palestinian] martyrs.” He previously lauded Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine member and two-time airplane hijacker Leila Khaled.

(full article online)









						From Terror Supporter to 'Palestine Correspondent': Meet Mohammed El-Kurd, The Nation's Latest Hire | Honest Reporting
					

With the hiring of Mohammed El-Kurd, The Nation has plunged to new depths in its ongoing campaign to tarnish the Jewish state.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## rylah

Did you drink something, taken drugs? Tell us we want to help.
- "I don't drink and nothing"

Where are you from?
- "Haifa"

Who threw you to the street like that?
- "I'm under death threats"

Who threatens you?
- "My husband's family"

Who's your husband, from where?
- "Kfar Kassem"


----------



## Hollie

I suppose living in relative comfort in an Israeli jail is a better choice than martyrdom. 













						3,728,600 reasons the escaped terrorists chose to return to prison quietly | PMW Analysis
					

According to calculations made by Palestinian Media Watch, based on the official PA terrorist salary pay scale, prior to the escape of the terrorists, the PA had already paid them a minimum cumulative sum of $1,165,125




					www.palwatch.org
				




3,728,600 reasons the escaped terrorists chose to return to prison quietly
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Sep 12, 2021
On September 11, 2021, Israeli security forces managed to capture four of the six terrorists who escaped from the Gilboa prison just days earlier. The terrorists did not resist their re-arrest.

While their escape was clearly the result of a substantial failure on the part of the Israeli Prison Service, their relatively quiet re-capture could well be the function of the comfortable life in Israeli prison while accumulating massive salaries, from the Palestinian Authority.

According to calculations made by Palestinian Media Watch, based on the official PA terrorist salary pay scale, prior to the escape of the terrorists, the PA had already paid them a minimum cumulative sum of 3,728,600 shekels ($1,165,125).


----------



## Hollie

I think Israel made another mistake by not ramping up its response to these latest islamic terrorist attacks.












						Terrorists fire one rocket from Gaza, then another as IDF strikes Hamas targets
					

Both rockets, fired hours apart, intercepted by Iron Dome; 3 injured running to bomb shelter; third successive night of rocket fire amid increase in tensions




					www.google.com
				




Both rockets, fired hours apart, intercepted by Iron Dome; 3 injured running to bomb shelter; third successive night of rocket fire amid increase in tensions
By AARON BOXERMAN, JUDAH ARI GROSS and TOI STAFF
12 September 2021, 10:51 pm

Terrorists fire one rocket from Gaza, then another as IDF strikes Hamas targets


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> I think Israel made another mistake by not ramping up its response to these latest islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists fire one rocket from Gaza, then another as IDF strikes Hamas targets
> 
> 
> Both rockets, fired hours apart, intercepted by Iron Dome; 3 injured running to bomb shelter; third successive night of rocket fire amid increase in tensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both rockets, fired hours apart, intercepted by Iron Dome; 3 injured running to bomb shelter; third successive night of rocket fire amid increase in tensions
> By AARON BOXERMAN, JUDAH ARI GROSS and TOI STAFF
> 12 September 2021, 10:51 pm
> 
> Terrorists fire one rocket from Gaza, then another as IDF strikes Hamas targets


Gazans humiliated Hamas spokesman Zubeidi, because the celebrated Zubeidi,
 who got captured is Fatah, and none among them were Hamas,
despite "leading the resistance"...not to mention trying to rise
the price of prisoners, having more Fatah heroes to release.

2 rockets intercepted, 5 bases destroyed.
This is for the 2nd:



*Q.* What response would You deem fit?
Would You argue this and that, when we take Gaza back?


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> Gazans humiliated Hamas spokesman Zubeidi, because the celebrated Zubeidi,
> who got captured is Fatah, and none among them were Hamas,
> despite "leading the resistance"...not to mention trying to rise
> the price of prisoners, having more Fatah heroes to release.
> 
> 2 rockets intercepted, 5 bases destroyed.
> This is for the 2nd:
> 
> 
> 
> *Q.* What response would You deem fit?
> Would You argue this and that, when we take Gaza back?


The report of 5 terrorist sites being struck was not in the early news I read. As a minimum, that might be appropriate. But why not respond with punishing measures intended to make such attacks too costly to pursue?  I would think that along with the 5 retaliatory strikes, tunnels and Hamas weapons factories could also have been struck. I don't know with certainty but I suspect that Israeli intelligence has an on-going list of terrorist infrastructure targets.


----------



## Hollie

So, 'popular uprising' is a slogan uttered by a dictator that convinces Arabs-Moslems in the territories they occupy to attempt to kill Israelis. 

Such are the dangers of a retrograde ideology that has changed little over the course of 1,400 years. 













						Fatah calls for “popular uprising” – Palestinians respond with 3 stabbing attacks | PMW Analysis
					

“The Fatah Movement called on the masses of our people for an urgent popular uprising in all the Palestinian cities, villages, and refugee camps”




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah calls for “popular uprising” – Palestinians respond with 3 stabbing attacks​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Sep 14, 2021

*“The Fatah Movement called on the masses of our people for an urgent popular uprising in all the Palestinian cities, villages, and refugee camps”*​
*At Fatah procession, “the speakers called on the masses of our people to carry out a comprehensive popular uprising in all the districts of the homeland”*​
Yesterday, two Palestinian terrorists carried out stabbing attacks against Israelis. One used a kitchen knife to stab and wound two Israeli teenagers in central Jerusalem, while another attempted to stab Israeli soldiers with a screwdriver at the Gush Etzion junction. A few days earlier, another terrorist used a knife to try and stab an Israeli security officer in the Old City of Jerusalem. All three attacks followed the call by Abbas’ Fatah Movement for “an urgent popular uprising in all the Palestinian cities, villages, and refugee camps,” which the movement issued following the recent escape of the 6 terrorists from prison. The official PA daily found this message so important that it printed it two days in a row:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


I suppose he will be laughing when he can parade the dead bodies of Pally intifada'ists who are killed when attacking Israeli civilians.


----------



## Hollie

One would expect the very worst examples of leftist degeneracy from the noted  newspapers as they won't call out Islamic ideologically motivated killing. 












						There's No Such Thing as a Palestinian Terrorist - Israel Today
					

Readers of the NY Times and Wash Post, note: The 6 escaped prisoners called "militants" by your media murdered innocent civilians 




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




Which of the following actions by “ideologically-motivated” Palestinian Arabs should be considered terrorism?


Placing a bomb at a bus stop in downtown Tel Aviv, killing an Israeli teenage girl.
Kidnapping an Israeli teenage boy and shooting him point-blank in the head.
Throwing flaming bottles of gasoline at Israelis, in order to burn them alive.
Firing automatic weapons at Israeli civilian buses.
The answer, according to _The New York Times_ and _The Washington Post_, is “4. None of the above.”

The terrorist attacks listed above were just a small sample oof the violent crimes against civilians committed by the six Palestinian Arabs who recently escaped from an Israeli prison. Yet in the coverage of the escape by America’s two most prominent and influential newspapers, the word “terrorist” never appears.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Has she committed the Hamas Charter to memory?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. It looks like the Pallys are a bit miffed at Israeli Arabs who assisted the capture of escaped islamo-jail birds,

Somewhere in the territories occupied by Islamic terrorists, a fatwa pen is scratching out an islamo hit. 













						Nazareth residents threatened after locals aid in re-arrest of terrorist fugitives | PMW Translations
					

PA governor accuses Israel of spreading “strife” by announcing Israeli Arabs reported on 6 escaped prisoners, Israeli Arab political parties distance from those who reported on terrorists




					palwatch.org
				




Headline: “Jenin district governor: We must fight the accusations against our people inside the 1948 territories”

“Jenin District Governor Akram Rajoub called to fight those who are stirring up strife among the members of the one [Palestinian] people in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, Jerusalem, and inside the 1948 territories (i.e., Israel).

District Governor Rajoub added in a statement yesterday evening [Sept. 11, 2021]: ‘*Since yesterday the occupation’s pawns have begun to sow the seeds of strife and divisiveness among the members of the one people, and this is just in order to divert attention from the defeat that it experienced against the determination of our heroic prisoners*’ (refers to how Israeli Arabs reported on 6 terrorist prisoners who escaped from Gilboa Prison; see note below -Ed.)…


----------



## Hollie

Seems all too predictable. The Pally Death Cult institutes a cradle to grave program that glorifies killing and death for the politico-religious ideology then feigns outrage when their killers meet the business end of security forces.  












						Media Bias Provides Cover for Rashida Tlaib’s Efforts to Hide Palestinian Terror
					

Reps. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) listen as Acting Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan testifies before the House …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




On August 28, United States Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) ignited a firestorm after posting a claim on Twitter that Israel was dehumanizing Palestinians by not returning the body of an assailant who in June had attempted to ram a car into IDF soldiers before exiting the vehicle while wielding a knife. She was subsequently shot dead.

First, there is the obvious fact that Tlaib failed to even note that Afana had committed an act of terrorism.

Second, Afana was not killed by “the Israeli government,” but rather by security forces who were intentionally targeted.

Third, Tlaib alludes to an Israeli policy whose underpinnings she is clearly unfamiliar with.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is a phrase that is seen often in Palestinian Arabic media, especially around this time of year: "Under the pretext of Jewish holidays."

Ma'an wrote on Monday, "The Israeli occupation forces, on Monday evening, restricted Jerusalemites, especially those residing in and around the Old City, under the pretext of the Jewish holidays and to facilitate the settlers' storming of the Old City and the Al-Buraq Wall [Kotel]."

Al Wafd, Wafa and many others headlined, "On the pretext of Jewish holidays, Israel closes the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron to [Muslim] worshipers."

Al Quds, last week: "Gaza: Israel's closure of commercial crossings under the pretext of Jewish holidays worsens economic conditions."

El Balad: "On the pretext of days of repentance, settlers storm Al-Aqsa Mosque, instigated by 'temple groups.'"

They don't mention that Egypt and Jordan close crossings on holidays. They don't mention that for every day the Cave of the Patriarchs is closed to Muslims, there is one day it is closed to Jews for Muslim holidays.

The wording makes it appear that they think that Israel uses the holidays as an excuse to make Palestinians suffer.

Indeed, that is exactly what they think. 

An Al Jazeera reporter interviewed Palestinians and "experts" about the fact that there are so many Jewish holidays during the week this month. 

(full article online)









						Palestinians think Jewish holidays are just an excuse for Jews to make their lives difficult for no reason
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

There were actually two attempts. The more spectacular one was the Arab with the light shirt lighting and hurling the firebomb towards an unseen target - possibly to start a forest fire. His own clothes ignite as he rushes back into the getaway car, seemingly unaware that he is on fire.

His red-jacketed  friend was driving with a tire as his companion. He rolls out the tire and pours gasoline on it, and tries to light it up as well, but without success.

The entire operation is amateurish but the brave Palestinians are clearly afraid of getting caught.

I particularly like how the getaway driver really wants to peel out and return to the village they came from before the arsonists can run back in and close their doors, and almost leaves the tire guy behind, but has to wait for traffic to allow the U-turn.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Molotov cocktail attack goes wrong (video)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A man was stabbed and seriously wounded in Jaffa outside Tel Aviv on Wednesday afternoon, police and medics said.

The circumstances of the assault and the identity of the victim were not immediately clear.

Police said the assailant was a Palestinian man who had illegally entered Israel and he had been arrested. Police said the motive was apparently a terror attack and identified the victim as a resident of Jaffa.

(full article online)









						Man stabbed, seriously wounded in Jaffa suspected terror attack
					

Police say suspect, a Palestinian who illegally entered country, has been arrested; victim hospitalized in serious condition; conflicting reports on circumstances of attack




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While four of the six escaped Palestinian terrorists are back behind bars, the PA, PLO, and Fatah continue to highlight the “victory” of the six “heroes” and “revolutionaries who succeeded in liberating themselves,” while praising all the imprisoned terrorists as “the best of us and a crown on the head of the Palestinian people.” Moreover, Fatah describes “everyone who resists this occupation” as “a freedom fighter,” while PLO calls the prison break “a mighty victory” and “heroic event”:



> “*The Fatah Movement said that ‘the prisoners are the best of us and a crown on the head of the Palestinian people*, and we and the masses of our people will not stand idly by if *our heroic prisoners* are harmed in any one of the Israeli occupation’s prisons.’ … Fatah warned the occupation authorities against the consequences of harming the lives of *the six heroic Palestinian prisoners who carried out their sacred right to freedom*. It emphasized that the Palestinian people’s struggle against the occupation is a legal right and that the occupation itself is the one that is invalid according to international law, and *everyone who resists this occupation is a freedom fighter*…
> *Head of the PLO Department of Expatriate Affairs Rawhi Fattouh*… mentioned *the six prisoners’ liberation operation* from the Israeli Gilboa Prison by saying: ‘*Our heroic prisoners in the Israeli occupation prisons recorded a mighty victory, which is added to the list of their victories and legendary resolve, after six of them escaped through a tunnel they dug at Gilboa Prison*.’
> He described what happened as *a great victory and a heroic event*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Sept. 10, 2021]


The term “resist” is a term the PA uses for violence and terror. Even Palestinian terrorists who murder civilians are said to be legitimately "resisting." 

An editorial in the official PA daily made light of the arrests, pointing out that the escape is a “magnificent example” that has “entered history”:

(full article online)









						“The freedom tunnel knights” – A full review of PA reactions to the escape and capture of the terrorist prisoners | PMW Analysis
					

“The six revolutionaries who shook the world”




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

These retrogrades spend their lives immersed in the most lurid conspiracy theories.


Israeli Merchants Harvest Organs From The Bodies Of Palestinian Martyrs, Sell Their Skeletons To Israeli Medical Schools​








						Fatah Official Nashat Al-Wahidi On Palestine TV: Israeli Merchants Harvest Organs From The Bodies Of Palestinian Martyrs, Sell Their Skeletons To Israeli Medical Schools
					

Nashat Al-Wahidi, the spokesman for Fatah's Commission for Martyrs, Prisoners and Wounded, said that Israeli merchants h...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Israeli security forces are preparing for Islamic activity of the gee-had kind. 


Pallys always have excuses for riots, destruction and mayhem. The ability to form a working, civil society never materializes. 










						Israel braces for escalation, with major attack said foiled in recent days
					

Public security minister warns country in 'a very sensitive situation' and anything could set off the area; police on high alert with 2,000 officers deployed in Jerusalem




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Israeli security forces foiled a major attack this week, as Palestinian terror groups sought to step up violence in solidarity with six escaped prisoners, Hebrew media reported Monday.

The Shin Bet security service and police foiled a number of attacks, Channel 12 and 13 reported, without giving details on the major attack prevented. Meanwhile, police were going on high alert, fearing further violence over the Yom Kippur holiday, particularly in Jerusalem.


----------



## Hollie

Hate the kuffar- love that kuffar welfare money. 











						Misuse of Gaza aid is likely to continue - opinion
					

Hamas likely objects to the new Qatari funding mechanism because it would make it more difficult for its officials to take a major share, or to divert the resources to resupply its rocket arsenal.




					m.jpost.com
				





Misuse of Gaza aid is likely to continue - opinion​By EITAN FISCHBERGER   
SEPTEMBER 15, 2021 08:17






Hamas likely objects to the new Qatari funding mechanism because it would make it more difficult for its officials to take a major share, or to divert the resources to resupply its rocket arsenal.


----------



## Hollie

Being linked to Islamic terrorists is probably a bad business call. 












						Discover Card Cuts Ties With Terror-Linked Organization
					

A major credit card company severed ties late last month with an organization accused of abetting Palestinian terrorism and backing economic boycotts against Israel.




					freebeacon.com
				





Discover Card Cuts Ties With Palestinian Terror-Linked Organization

Will no longer process donations to left-wing advocacy group that works to free Palestinians from Israeli jails.

A major credit card company severed ties late last month with an organization accused of abetting Palestinian terrorism and backing economic boycotts against Israel


----------



## Hollie

Interesting article in jpost with some considerations about a potential collapse of the corrupt PA and how Hamas (and others), might try to capitalize. There are a number of valid comparisons between the competing Taliban tribes and the various Islamic terrorist franchises in the territories occupied by Iranian backed Hamas, PIJ, and a host of other sunni backed groups. It would be expected that these warring tribes would quickly be at each other’s throats if the opportunity presented itself. 











						Don’t allow Israel's West Bank to become Afghanistan - opinion
					

The PA, just like the Afghan government, is already fragile for several reasons, such as corruption, mismanagement and lack of public trust.




					m.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:



Life’s tough for the lad when he can’t find a YouTube video.


----------



## Hollie

It’s difficult to know if the judgement against the Islamic terrorist franchise is anything more than symbolic. The syndicates of Islamic terrorist organizations operate outside of international law and unless Israeli authorities are going to seize property or individuals, there’s no reason to expect Hamas will accept any judgement. 











						Hamas ordered by court to pay NIS 38 million to victims of terrorism
					

Since the district court's ruling is subject to the Supreme Court's ruling, the victims' families have announced that they will appeal the ruling to bring the matter before the Supreme Court again.




					m.jpost.com
				




The families of the three teenage yeshiva students who were abducted and murdered by terrorists in 2014 – Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah – are to be awarded NIS 38 million compensation by Hamas, the Jerusalem District Court ruled on Tuesday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It’s difficult to know if the judgement against the Islamic terrorist franchise is anything more than symbolic. The syndicates of Islamic terrorist organizations operate outside of international law and unless Israeli authorities are going to seize property or individuals, there’s no reason to expect Hamas will accept any judgement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas ordered by court to pay NIS 38 million to victims of terrorism
> 
> 
> Since the district court's ruling is subject to the Supreme Court's ruling, the victims' families have announced that they will appeal the ruling to bring the matter before the Supreme Court again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The families of the three teenage yeshiva students who were abducted and murdered by terrorists in 2014 – Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah – are to be awarded NIS 38 million compensation by Hamas, the Jerusalem District Court ruled on Tuesday.


What authority does a foreign court have to make that decision?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Jurisdiction
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Careful, the implication and answer to your question cut both ways.  It is a matter of reciprocity.  If the foreign jurisdiction.  



			
				Hollie said:
			
		

> It’s difficult to know if the judgment against the Islamic terrorist franchise is anything more than symbolic. The syndicates of Islamic terrorist organizations operate outside of international law and unless Israeli authorities are going to seize property or individuals, there’s no reason to expect Hamas will accept any judgment.





P F Tinmore said:


> What authority does a foreign court have to make that decision?


*(THOUGHT)*
.
*PERSPECTIVE #1*:  It is a matter of both an exchange of recognition and the concept that neither the claimant in a case nor the defendant in the case can be allowed to enact laws in their own favor that prevents the enforcement of the court after a suit is filed.

*PERSPECTIVE #2*:  *IF* the judgment of a foreign court has no recognition in one direct, *THEN* it has no recognition in the reverse direction.
.
*(COMMENT)*
.
This is a case of "what is in the best interest" in the relationship between the jurisdictions.   

This could have some very far-reaching implications.  This means that ANY judgment in favor of the claimant _(the Palestinians)_ has no recognition _(enforceable impact) _on any Israeli entity.  And it may go even further beyond that.  *IF* the idea that Israeli Courts are foreign courts without recognition *THEN* does any judgment by any other court have validity when the third party judgment renders in favor of the Palestinians against the Israelis.

*IF* for example, the Palestinians find themselves in a good position to file against Israel for War Reparations, Restitution, Compensation, or Indemnification →* THEN* Israel would have no duty to honor such judgments.
.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Continuing a pattern we have seen for decades, so-called ''aid money'' to the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank is money used to further islamic terrorism. 












						Hamas's meddling in Gaza charities is a massive moral failure  | Al Bawaba
					

Hamas’s shenanigans have severely jeopardized the future of the very people it claims to serve.




					www.albawaba.com
				




Last week, allegations arose that Hamas, the Islamist group that rules the Gaza Strip, had diverted tens of millions of dollars from three major humanitarian organizations to support their own ends. For many this kind of behavior reminded them of Hamas’s rival Palestinian faction, Fatah, which was known for corruption, bribe-taking and nepotism.


On Aug. 4, the Gaza director of World Vision, one of the biggest NGOs in the world, was indicted for siphoning $7.2 million to Hamas annually over the course of five years. The World Vision official, named as Mohammad Al Halabi, allegedly funneled construction materials and food and medical aid packages to Hamas rather than to Gaza’s impoverished civilians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The US Palestinian Affairs Unit works out of the US Embassy in Jerusalem. 

Naturally, the Embassy is closed for Jewish holidays as well as national holidays.

But the PAU tweeted something unusual on Thursday:




The "local holiday"? Are they afraid their Palestinian clients will throw firebombs if they mention "Yom Kippur"?

I checked if they announced they were closed for Rosh Hashanah as well. Sure enough, they tweeted they were closed for Labor Day and "local holidays."





The Holiday Calendar is published by the US Embassy and naturally mentions the names of the Jewish (and Islamic and American) holidays that it closes for.

(full article online)









						US Palestinian Affairs Unit can't say "Rosh Hashanah" or "Yom Kippur"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> The US Palestinian Affairs Unit works out of the US Embassy in Jerusalem.
> 
> Naturally, the Embassy is closed for Jewish holidays as well as national holidays.
> 
> But the PAU tweeted something unusual on Thursday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "local holiday"? Are they afraid their Palestinian clients will throw firebombs if they mention "Yom Kippur"?
> 
> I checked if they announced they were closed for Rosh Hashanah as well. Sure enough, they tweeted they were closed for Labor Day and "local holidays."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Holiday Calendar is published by the US Embassy and naturally mentions the names of the Jewish (and Islamic and American) holidays that it closes for.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Palestinian Affairs Unit can't say "Rosh Hashanah" or "Yom Kippur"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



Biden administration......buncha pussies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Jurisdiction
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Careful, the implication and answer to your question cut both ways.  It is a matter of reciprocity.  If the foreign jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(THOUGHT)*
> .
> *PERSPECTIVE #1*:  It is a matter of both an exchange of recognition and the concept that neither the claimant in a case nor the defendant in the case can be allowed to enact laws in their own favor that prevents the enforcement of the court after a suit is filed.
> 
> *PERSPECTIVE #2*:  *IF* the judgment of a foreign court has no recognition in one direct, *THEN* it has no recognition in the reverse direction.
> .
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> This is a case of "what is in the best interest" in the relationship between the jurisdictions.
> 
> This could have some very far-reaching implications.  This means that ANY judgment in favor of the claimant _(the Palestinians)_ has no recognition _(enforceable impact) _on any Israeli entity.  And it may go even further beyond that.  *IF* the idea that Israeli Courts are foreign courts without recognition *THEN* does any judgment by any other court have validity when the third party judgment renders in favor of the Palestinians against the Israelis.
> 
> *IF* for example, the Palestinians find themselves in a good position to file against Israel for War Reparations, Restitution, Compensation, or Indemnification →* THEN* Israel would have no duty to honor such judgments.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Israel doesn't recognize anything.

This sidesteps my question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel doesn't recognize anything.
> 
> This sidesteps my question.


So predictable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Continuing a pattern we have seen for decades, so-called ''aid money'' to the Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank is money used to further islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's meddling in Gaza charities is a massive moral failure  | Al Bawaba
> 
> 
> Hamas’s shenanigans have severely jeopardized the future of the very people it claims to serve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.albawaba.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last week, allegations arose that Hamas, the Islamist group that rules the Gaza Strip, had diverted tens of millions of dollars from three major humanitarian organizations to support their own ends. For many this kind of behavior reminded them of Hamas’s rival Palestinian faction, Fatah, which was known for corruption, bribe-taking and nepotism.
> 
> 
> On Aug. 4, the Gaza director of World Vision, one of the biggest NGOs in the world, was indicted for siphoning $7.2 million to Hamas annually over the course of five years. The World Vision official, named as Mohammad Al Halabi, allegedly funneled construction materials and food and medical aid packages to Hamas rather than to Gaza’s impoverished civilians.


By the same group of assholes who sit around all day playing terrorist and anti Semite cards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> So predictable.


Indeed it is. Rocco has been ducking my questions for years.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed it is. Rocco has been ducking my questions for years.


Indeed, you're not embarrassed about your childish behavior.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> By the same group of assholes who sit around all day playing terrorist and anti Semite cards.


Your excuses are pitiful.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas claimed to have dissolved the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades back in....2007. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now. 

The three terror groups have worked together in Gaza for years. This is the first I have seen them work together in the West Bank. The prisoner escape seems to be the reason, but it is clear that the Palestinian Authority is allowing this to happen - especially when the terror groups are so anxious to publicize how they are active in the areas that the PA supposedly keeps law and order.

(full article online)









						Hamas, Islamic Jihad and (Mahmoud Abbas') Fatah create "joint operations room" in Jenin
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed it is. Rocco has been ducking my questions for years.


What is the question?

R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> What is the question?
> 
> R


What authority does a foreign court have to make that decision?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> What authority does a foreign court have to make that decision?



Any court can make any decision.

Now can they enforce it?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> What authority does a foreign court have to make that decision?



_The families of the three teenage yeshiva students who were abducted and murdered by terrorists in 2014 – Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah – are to be awarded NIS 38 million compensation by Hamas, the Jerusalem District Court ruled on Tuesday._

They'll probably seize some Hamas assets or withhold some import taxes they would remit to Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Pally chuckleheads.


----------



## Hollie

Largely what you would expect from the Arab-Moslem terrorists: their heroes are those in the Pally cult who attack civilians. 












						Hamas says ‘heroic’ stabbing inspired by jailbreak, threatens escalation
					

Victim of Jerusalem attack describes being chased around store, wrestling with attacker, as policewoman recounts how she managed to shoot stabber without injuring bystanders




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




The Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups on Monday praised a “heroic” Palestinian stabbing attack near Jerusalem’s Central Bus Station that left two Israelis moderately wounded and said a recent rise in attacks was motivated by the strong feelings generated in Palestinian society by the escape of six security prisoners.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> said a recent rise in attacks was motivated by the strong feelings generated in Palestinian society by the escape of six security prisoners.



More strong feelings of inadequacy.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic psychopathy is a real problem.​​“_Psychopathy is a neuropsychiatric disorder marked by deficient emotional responses, lack of empathy, and poor behavioral controls, commonly resulting in persistent antisocial deviance and criminal behavior.”_​​​







						Murder of Israeli athletes in Munich is a “heroic operation” according to Abbas’ Fatah | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah praises mastermind of the Munich Olympics massacre for planning and leading the lethal attack




					www.palwatch.org
				


​Murder of Israeli athletes in Munich is a “heroic operation” according to Abbas’ Fatah​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 19, 2021

*Fatah praises mastermind of the Munich Olympics massacre for planning and leading the lethal attack*​
On September 5, 1972 at the Munich Olympics, Palestinian terrorists from the Fatah’s Black September terror organization took Israeli athletes hostage and murdered 11 of them.


----------



## Hollie

No more gee-had after the walk of shame. 











						Israeli forces nab final 2 Palestinian fugitives in Jenin, ending jailbreak saga
					

Iham Kamamji and Munadil Nafiyat, both members of the Islamic Jihad terror group, arrested in West Bank city nearly 2 weeks after escaping Gilboa Prison




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> No more gee-had after the walk of shame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces nab final 2 Palestinian fugitives in Jenin, ending jailbreak saga
> 
> 
> Iham Kamamji and Munadil Nafiyat, both members of the Islamic Jihad terror group, arrested in West Bank city nearly 2 weeks after escaping Gilboa Prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 541646



HA!


----------



## Hollie

Yet another “new vision”?

Promising more cash welfare money to Islamic terrorists has resulted only in incredibly rich Islamic terrorists. Decades of welfare payments hasn’t caused Fatah to reduce their gee-had attacks and hasn’t caused Hamas to abandon the goal of their charter.










						Lapid proposes ‘new vision’ for Gaza, promises economic steps for Hamas quiet
					

While ruling out negotiations with Hamas terror group, foreign minister says Jewish state must implement 'economy in return for security' system, strengthen Palestinian Authority




					www.timesofisrael.com
				



​

​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas issued a statement condemning the first anniversary of the Abraham Accords, and ended up promoting them to any normal person.

Hamas' statement said, "the so-called Abraham agreements are a Zionist-American project par excellence, aiming at openness and regional normalization with the Zionist entity, integrating it into the region, and forging alliances with it to replace the priorities of the conflict ... It exhausts the forces of the nation and the factors of its steadfastness, and isolates Palestine and the Palestinian resistance forces, and all those who support them and stand with them officially, popularly or institutionally.” 

Sounds pretty good to me!

Usually, Hamas issues these statements in a EU-friendly way, acting like the terrorists are the victims. This statement is aimed squarely at Palestinians and those who sympathize with terrorists.

It will be interesting to see whether Hamas issues an English translation on its English language website, or will modify the statement to a different audience. As of this writing, it was only on their Arabic website.

(full article online)









						Hamas gives great public relations for Abraham Accords
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority news agency has acknowledged that the Palestinians are persecuted in Lebanon.

Despite that fact that anti-Israel demonstrators around the world, claiming to defend Palestinian human rights, promote BDS against the “apartheid” Jewish State, an article published by WAFA on Saturday indicates that in Lebanon, the home base of the Hezbollah terrorist organization, Palestinians are treated as second-class citizens.

According to the article, titled “New Lebanese labor minister supports changing laws that discriminate against the Palestinian refugees,” Palestinian refugees do not enjoy equal rights.

(full article online)









						In Lebanon (Not Israel), Palestinians are 2nd-Class Citizens, PA News Agency Concedes | United with Israel
					

According to a report in the Palestinian news agency WAFA, Palestinians living in Lebanon suffer 'do not enjoy several important rights.' Where are the pro-Palestinian activists around the world?




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

With the leftist hacks in Washington being a willing audience for Islamic terrorists, there’s no attempt at deception required by the Pally terrorists.











						Is the PA going to deceive the US into opening the PLO offices in DC? | PMW Analysis
					

Since its creation in 1995, the Palestinian Authority has created the most comprehensive system for funding, incentivizing, and rewarding terror and terrorism




					www.palwatch.org
				




Since its creation in 1995, the Palestinian Authority has created the most comprehensive system for funding, incentivizing, and rewarding terror and terrorism. As part of the policy that has been dubbed the PA’s “Pay-for-Slay” policy, the PA has paid billions of shekels/dollars/euros to terrorists and their families. According to Atef Abd Al-Gawad, an Egyptian journalist based in Washington, it is the PA’s terror reward program that is impeding the reopening of the office of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in Washington.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Maybe if we just keep giving the Pally Taliban more welfare money, we can expect them to change their behaviors. 





			https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/palestinian/pages/default.aspx
		


Palestinian terror and incitement


Wave of terror 2015-2021
19 Sep 2021
The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews.

Since September 2015, Israel has experienced a wave of terror perpetrated by individuals, many of them very young, inspired by vicious incitement in Palestinian social and traditional media and urged on by the Palestinian leadership. The Palestinian Authority goes so far as to pay convicted terrorists a monthly allowance – the more serious the offense, the more money they receive. The families of terrorists killed by Israeli security forces during a terror attack receive a monthly "pension" as well.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Are Palestinian mothers (and fathers too) genuinely happy for their children who died as “Martyrs” and had “weddings” to the 72 virgins of Paradise instead of funerals? Or are they just keeping up appearances?

There’s no way of knowing, but one thing is certain: Expressing joy over a Palestinian child dying in terror attacks and violent confrontations  with Israel is what the PA expects and demands of its people. One of the ways the PA promotes this is by broadcasting the parents’ statements repeatedly in official PA media. Palestinian Media Watch has been exposing this since the beginning of the PA terror campaign – the second Intifada - in October 2000. PMW’s first report on the PA promoting child  Martyrdom entitled “Wajdi, a 14-year-old: “When I become a Shahid [Martyr], give out cake," published already in November 2000.

This PA practice of promoting child Martyrdom and pressuring parents to support it continues until today. The following are a few recent examples of statements of joy by mothers whose sons died “as Martyrs” – statements that the official PA TV chose to broadcast to the Palestinian public. Note that the parents’ references to the Martyrs’ weddings are based on the Islamic belief that a Martyr for Allah marries 72 “dark-eyed”, i.e., the Virgins in Paradise.

(full article online)









						Are Palestinian mothers genuinely joyous over the deaths of their ‎children as “Martyrs” or are they just keeping up appearances?‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Mother: “My [Martyr] son had nothing called a funeral, rather it was a wedding”




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Jurisdiction
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: Yeah, every time I see the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) advocate for terrorist activism, I have to laugh as the UN, the EU, and all the other countries that signed on to the "*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR)."



Hollie said:


> Palestinian terror and incitement
> 
> Wave of terror 2015-2021
> 19 Sep 2021
> The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews.
> 
> Since September 2015, Israel has experienced a wave of terror perpetrated by individuals, many of them very young, inspired by vicious incitement in Palestinian social and traditional media and urged on by the Palestinian leadership. The Palestinian Authority goes so far as to pay convicted terrorists a monthly allowance – the more serious the offense, the more money they receive. The families of terrorists killed by Israeli security forces during a terror attack receive a monthly "pension" as well.


*(REFERENCE)*

_*Article 20 *_

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

*(COMMENT)*
.
What most people ignore, especially those self-righteous hypocrites at the International Criminal Court (ICC), is that this is an open violation of Human Rights, agreed upon by the Convention.   This is the pompous prosecutorial discretion using racial and religious prejudice to abuse the rule of law.

While the CCPR was written in 1966 (a year before the Six-Day War), it only went into effect a decade later (1976).  So technically, the HoAP have only been in violation of the Human Right Law for the last 45 years.  Although, in spirit, they have been involved in terrorist acts against Israel and the world for much longer. .





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

When a sharia judge talks about ''purifying'', expect the worst.

It's important to note that Islamism has never ''liberated'' anyone. A crushing, totalitarian politico-religious ideology that seems only to inflict suffering and misery has some rather disturbing conceptions of non-islamists. 













						Muslims will “purify” the Temple Mount and “liberate the land and the people ‎from the defilement of the criminal infidels” says PA preacher | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas: Israel is “unleashing the settler herds and their terror groups so that they will sow ruin and destruction and desecrate the holy sites”




					palwatch.org
				




Muslims will “purify” the Temple Mount and “liberate the land and the people ‎from the defilement of the criminal infidels” says PA preacher​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 23, 2021

*Abbas: Israel is “unleashing the settler herds and their terror groups so that they will sow ruin and destruction and desecrate the holy sites”*​
*PA: Jews “defile” and “desecrate” the Al-Aqsa Mosque by visiting the Temple Mount*​
*Official PA daily demonizes visits by Jews to the Temple Mount as “plots that are being woven by the settler associations to desecrate the mosque”*​
*PA TV: “The defiling of the places of worship by the occupation and its settlers… is being carried out”*​
*PA TV: Arab rioters prevent Jews from “desecrating” Jerusalem*​
When a PA-appointed Shari’ah judge in his sermon recently called to “liberate the land and the people from the defilement of the criminal infidels” – i.e., Israelis/Jews – and prophesied that soon “the nation of Islam will be crowned with the purification of the Al-Aqsa Mosque,” it was not an isolated or unusual antisemitic statement. On the contrary, the PA, its officials, and its media regularly state that “Palestine,” “Jerusalem,” and “the Muslim (and Christian) holy sites” must be “cleansed,” “purified,” and “liberated” from the “defilement” and “desecration” of Jews.


----------



## Hollie

It's that time again when one or the other of the islamic terrorist franchise heads rattles on about 'elections'. I suppose if you buy the premise that islamic dictators will allow for elections,  you buy the conclusion that elections will change the course of the dictatorship. But with the premise itself unsound, so the conclusion that follows is likelly unsound. 









__





						Ahram Online  - Hamas rejects PA's call for Palestinian local elections
					





					english.ahram.org.eg
				




Hamas, the Islamist group that runs Gaza, said Wednesday it would not participate in municipal Palestinians elections set by the Palestinian Authority for December unless a general election is also called.

Hamas is a long-standing rival of the PA, based in the occupied West Bank, and had supported the decision to hold Palestinian legislative and presidential elections in May and July.

But president Mahmud Abbas in April indefinitely postponed those votes, which would have been the first Palestinian elections in 15 years.v


----------



## Hollie

​Though often glossed over, it's important to remember the Hamas conflict with the Jewish State is deeply ideological. However, when infidel technology and economics can be exploited by islamists, they're on board with that.​



​Crypto funding for Palestine's Hamas nears $1 million and far outstrips hauls for other militant groups, Coinbase says​snagarajan@businessinsider.com (Shalini Nagarajan) 9 hrs ago
http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AAOHoXM?ocid=sf
https://twitter.com/share?url=http:...rer=http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AAOHoXM?ocid=st
https://web.whatsapp.com/send?text=http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AAOHoXM?ocid=sw


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Incitement to Violence
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*(COMMENT)*

It would appear that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have been slowly turning up the heat on making the conflict about Islam.

The comments made recently by President Abbas and the Shari’ah Judge make such inflammatory comments, it is the best example of why Arab Palestinians need Article 43 Hague Regulation _(take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,)_ needs to remain in place.  This may be the best demonstration of a reason to amplify security measures.

I also think that the Israelis should rethink the authorized movement into Area "C" (ie Settlers).  What they might consider is turning the Negev into a much more hospitable land that the Settlers may relocate.  Of course, that is just my opinion.  But it does not appear to me that the Settlers authorizations have any practical application into solving the tention.

Hopefully, the new blood in the Israeli Leadership might be more productive.  Maybe the Israelis should allow the West Bank Arab Palestinians to form an Islamic State.  They will probably appreciate the Islamic Leaders running their environment.  It appears to me that this is the direction the Arab Palestinians want to pursue (an Islamic State).    Maybe then, the adjacent Jordan and Egypt would open up their borders to greater trade and commerce. 





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Incitement to Violence
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It would appear that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have been slowly turning up the heat on making the conflict about Islam.
> 
> The comments made recently by President Abbas and the Shari’ah Judge make such inflammatory comments, it is the best example of why Arab Palestinians need Article 43 Hague Regulation _(take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,)_ needs to remain in place.  This may be the best demonstration of a reason to amplify security measures.
> 
> I also think that the Israelis should rethink the authorized movement into Area "C" (ie Settlers).  What they might consider is turning the Negev into a much more hospitable land that the Settlers may relocate.  Of course, that is just my opinion.  But it does not appear to me that the Settlers authorizations have any practical application into solving the tention.
> 
> Hopefully, the new blood in the Israeli Leadership might be more productive.  Maybe the Israelis should allow the West Bank Arab Palestinians to form an Islamic State.  They will probably appreciate the Islamic Leaders running their environment.  It appears to me that this is the direction the Arab Palestinians want to pursue (an Islamic State).    Maybe then, the adjacent Jordan and Egypt would open up their borders to greater trade and commerce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R



Yes. The Egyptians in particular would be thrilled to have representatives of Hamas, (Muslim Brotherhood step-children), and their Islamic State dystopia as 'trading partners'. 











						Egypt bans ‘extremist’ and Muslim Brotherhood literature in mosque libraries
					

Authorities have called for checks on the books to be allowed in mosque libraries, and their swift removal




					www.middleeasteye.net


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Jurisdiction
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yeah, every time I see the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) advocate for terrorist activism, I have to laugh as the UN, the EU, and all the other countries that signed on to the "*International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR)."
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> _*Article 20 *_
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> What most people ignore, especially those self-righteous hypocrites at the International Criminal Court (ICC), is that this is an open violation of Human Rights, agreed upon by the Convention.   This is the pompous prosecutorial discretion using racial and religious prejudice to abuse the rule of law.
> 
> While the CCPR was written in 1966 (a year before the Six-Day War), it only went into effect a decade later (1976).  So technically, the HoAP have only been in violation of the Human Right Law for the last 45 years.  Although, in spirit, they have been involved in terrorist acts against Israel and the world for much longer. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Rocco, this one is for you.

Palestinian Authority Repression: Subcontracting Israeli Oppression​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Rocco, this one is for you.
> 
> Palestinian Authority Repression: Subcontracting Israeli Oppression​



Your usual cut and paste youtube spam.


----------



## Sixties Fan

When a PA-appointed Shari’ah judge in his sermon recently called to “liberate the land and the people from the defilement of the criminal infidels” – i.e., Israelis/Jews – and prophesied that soon “the nation of Islam will be crowned with the purification of the Al-Aqsa Mosque,” it was not an isolated or unusual antisemitic statement. On the contrary, the PA, its officials, and its media regularly state that “Palestine,” “Jerusalem,” and “the Muslim (and Christian) holy sites” must be “cleansed,” “purified,” and “liberated” from the “defilement” and “desecration” of Jews.











> *Shari’ah Judge Hatem Al-Bakri:* “Mere days stand between us and a new year… in which it is hoped that *the nation of truth and justice, the nation of Islam, will have a decisive victory*, and that *the nation of Islam will be crowned with the purification of the Al-Aqsa Mosque *and the liberation of the land of [Prophet Muhammad’s] Night Journey… Allah… prepare a man for us who will follow the path of the Rightly Guided Caliphs, who will *liberate the land and the people from the defilement of the criminal infidels*.”
> [Official PA TV, Aug. 6, 2021



(full article online)









						Muslims will “purify” the Temple Mount and “liberate the land and the people ‎from the defilement of the criminal infidels” says PA preacher | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas: Israel is “unleashing the settler herds and their terror groups so that they will sow ruin and destruction and desecrate the holy sites”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)









						SHOCKING: Here’s What’s Demanded of Palestinian Moms and Dads | United with Israel
					

Are Palestinian mothers genuinely joyous over the deaths of their ‎children as 'Martyrs' or are they just keeping up appearances?‎




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

While the Shia Iranians may despise the Sunni islamists in the territories they occupy, both tribes have an ideological revulsion for Jews. The 1,400 year old blood feud separating the Shia and Sunni just presents an opportunity for the Shia to pit their enemies against one another.  












						How Iran Fuels Hamas Terrorism
					

After playing a key role in the group’s military development for years and navigating deep ideological rifts, Tehran has renewed its extensive sponsorship in ways that contributed directly to the recent bloodshed in Gaza.




					www.washingtoninstitute.org
				




After playing a key role in the group’s military development for years and navigating deep ideological rifts, Tehran has renewed its extensive sponsorship in ways that contributed directly to the recent bloodshed in Gaza.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Oh, please, please do.  Dissolve that which should have never been allowed to happen. The PA.  Because clearly, Abbas and the PA and Hamas, will never agree to a Palestinian State while Israel exists )

Speaking in an interview with official PA television, Ahmad said that in his speech, Abbas would express very strong views and emphasize an important point, namely the establishment of a Palestinian state or the dissolution of the Palestinian Authority.

(full article online)









						Abbas to threaten dissolution of PA if no state formed
					

In UN speech, PA chairman will threaten that PA will be dissolved if a Palestinian state isn't formed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab Terrorists Burn Beit Knesset in Southern Judea - Israel Unwired
					

Share on FacebookTweet WhatsappLast night near the Southern Hebron Hills community of Maale Hever, terrorist burned a Beith Midrash/Beit Knesset. The Beit Midrash was established in memory of the late…




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

When asked about their preferred way out of the current status quo, only 28% said “reaching a peace agreement with Israel” a plurality of 39% prefer waging “an armed struggle against the Israeli occupation.”

When asked what they think is "the most effective means of ending the Israeli occupation," a huge plurality of  48% chose armed struggle, compared to 28% who prefer negotiations.

If Israeli courts expel the illegal Arab squatters in Sheikh Jarrah, 60% say that Hamas should respond with rockets towards Israeli civilian population centers.

More evidence of Palestinian preference for violence:  46% believe the lesson that the Palestinians should learn from what happened in Afghanistan is that they should strengthen terror groups ("the forces of armed resistance.")

This is all very damning. It destroys the narrative that Western media try to create. Which is why you won't read about it in AP or the New York Times. 

(full article online)









						Latest poll shows most Palestinians STILL support terror as their preferred "solution"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Since the Arabs were not demanding it of Jordan and the Hashemites......the answer is NO, Israel is not withdrawing to the 1967 borders )

Israel’s Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan slammed the speech, saying it highlighted Abbas and the Palestinians rejection of peace. “Those who really support peace and negotiations don’t issue threats and delusional ultimatums from the UN platform.”

Prime Minister Naftali Bennett has said that his government will not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state.

“I oppose a Palestinian state — I think it would be a terrible mistake,” Bennett told the Kan public broadcaster earlier this month.

Nor does Bennett have any plans to meet his Palestinian counterpart.

“I don’t see any logic in meeting someone who is suing IDF soldiers at The Hague and accusing them of war crimes, and at the same time paying salaries to terrorists,” Bennett said in the same interview.

(full article online)









						At UN General Assembly, Abbas gives Israel one year to withdraw to 1967 lines
					

PA president offers to negotiate over next 12 months, but threatens to reverse recognition of Israel, press for further charges at ICJ if demands not met




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

I've found myself - yet again - nonplussed at the notion of Pally’s being interested in economic / social gains while Israel continues to exist.

The Pally’s ‘’grievance" with the Jewish State is an ideological one that dates to Islamic times and tales from about 1,400 years ago.  How long must anyone wait for that "grievance" to expire? The promise from an Arab warlord that Islamic supremacy / fascism is eternal is worth a hand-wave of “go away”. 










						The Folly of the “Economy for Peace” Thesis
					

Much like the Oslo illusion, which posited that territorial concessions to the PLO would bring about peace with the Palestinians, the hope that economic easing in the Gaza Strip will moderate Hamas te




					besacenter.org
				










EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Much like the Oslo illusion, which posited that territorial concessions to the PLO would bring about peace with the Palestinians, the hope that economic easing in the Gaza Strip will moderate Hamas terrorism is a mistaken attempt to apply a Western logic of conflict management to a Palestinian enemy whose definition of the end of the conflict with Israel is not in the West’s political-cultural lexicon.


----------



## Hollie

Anyone recall talk of elections by the islamic terrorists? 

Below is a February 2021 timeline article which was followed by articles in March, April, May,... well, you get the picture, about islamic terrorist dictators and those islamo-elections happening soon, sometime, maybe, sorta'. 

Why do the islamic terrorists even bother with these bait and switch tactics? The point is, credence granted to a claim must have an objective basis. The credibility must be realistic *not* merely a representation by islamic terrorists with a history of lies and corruption for their personal gain.









						Tarnished by its Gaza rule, Hamas may struggle in elections
					

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh famously pledged to live on “zeit wa zaatar”— olive oil and dried herbs — after he led the Islamic militant group to victory on a message of armed struggle and austerity during 2006 Palestinian elections.




					apnews.com
				




GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh famously pledged to live on “zeit wa zaatar”— olive oil and dried herbs — after he led the Islamic militant group to victory on a message of armed struggle and austerity during 2006 Palestinian elections.

But he has since left the impoverished Gaza Strip and, along with some other Hamas leaders, is living in luxury as he splits his time between Turkey and Qatar. With new elections planned this spring, Hamas will struggle to campaign as a scrappy underdog that is above trading its principles for material comforts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I've found myself - yet again - nonplussed at the notion of Pally’s being interested in economic / social gains while Israel continues to exist.
> 
> The Pally’s ‘’grievance" with the Jewish State is an ideological one that dates to Islamic times and tales from about 1,400 years ago.  How long must anyone wait for that "grievance" to expire? The promise from an Arab warlord that Islamic supremacy / fascism is eternal is worth a hand-wave of “go away”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Folly of the “Economy for Peace” Thesis
> 
> 
> Much like the Oslo illusion, which posited that territorial concessions to the PLO would bring about peace with the Palestinians, the hope that economic easing in the Gaza Strip will moderate Hamas te
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besacenter.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 543528
> 
> 
> EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Much like the Oslo illusion, which posited that territorial concessions to the PLO would bring about peace with the Palestinians, the hope that economic easing in the Gaza Strip will moderate Hamas terrorism is a mistaken attempt to apply a Western logic of conflict management to a Palestinian enemy whose definition of the end of the conflict with Israel is not in the West’s political-cultural lexicon.


     Clueless.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Clueless.



You couldn't find a youtube video to cut and paste?


----------



## Hollie

Infidel innovated technology and media are a staple of islamic terrorists. Fatah, for example, uses Facebook to relentlessly press their retrograde message of hate and to heap praise on the killers they create. Its important to recognize the realities of "low-intensity" or "asymmetrical" warfare as practiced by the Pally terrorists using western technology.












						Gaza Round 4: Hamas Follows the Classic Terror Playbook - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics
					

For decades, terrorists have relied on three weapons to fight the West: our technology, our media, and our laws and...




					spectator.org
				




For decades, terrorists have relied on three weapons to fight the West: our technology, our media, and our laws and associated values.


----------



## Hollie

​Palestinian kids taught to admire escaped terrorists​








						Palestinian kids taught to admire escaped terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian kids taught that escaped terrorists are “heroes”




					palwatch.org
				




Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Sep 26, 2021

*Palestinian kids taught that escaped terrorists are “heroes”*​
*Fatah glorifies 4th grader who wrote about the fugitive terrorists for “understanding the lesson”*​
The escape of 6 Palestinian terrorists from an Israeli prison earlier this month was cause for great celebration in the PA, and the PA utilized the escape to reinforce what Palestinian children are taught daily: That terrorists and murderers of Israelis are heroes. The following images and texts published by PA schools, Abbas’ Fatah Movement, and the official PA daily, show that Palestinian school kids are being taught to honor all terrorists, with focus on the escapees (who were all recaptured within 2 weeks):

One example illustrates how central the message that terrorists are heroes is and how important it is for the PA and Fatah to get it across to children. Fatah posted the answers given by a 4th grader who chose to write sentences about the 6 escaped terrorists for an assignment on interrogatives. Fatah said the boy had “understood the lesson of the prisoners well”:









In the alternate reality of Pally'dom, heroes are defined by those who target and attack Israeli soldiers and civilians.  The Pallys steadily grind away at developing generation after generation of psycho-social misfits who lack any sort social order or value system not aligned with a 7th century politico-religious code. The result has been massively destructive to the point where they celebrate thieves, killers and psychopaths as heroes.


----------



## Hollie

In the face of the Hamas Charter, an Israeli refusal to recognize a blood enemy will allow that enemy to do great harm. As the actions of the Islamic terrorists speak with the utmost clarity, these approaches by Israel; interrupting and foiling Islamic terrorist attacks, are the only ones that will work













						Five Killed in West Bank Shootouts
					

The Israeli military said the five were killed during raids to arrest members of a Hamas network planning terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians.




					www.nytimes.com
				




JERUSALEM — Israeli forces killed five Palestinians in armed confrontations in the occupied West Bank early on Sunday, according to Israeli officials. They said the gun battles occurred during a series of raids intended to thwart a terrorist attack on Israeli civilians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a recent PA TV interview PLO Ambassador to the UK Husam Zomlot complained that social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram and Twitter block posts glorifying terrorism.

Zomlot also lamented blocked posts praising arch-terrorists “Abu Jihad” and “Abu Iyad.” They were responsible for the murder of dozens of pf Israelis including the Munich Massacre and one of the most lethal terror attacks in Israel that killed 37 civilians including 12 children.

(watch video online)









						WATCH: Palestinian Diplomat Laments Facebook Blocking Incitement | United with Israel
					

Ambassador Hussein Zomlot's comments say a lot about how 'peaceful' the PA really is.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

Sacrifices must be made for the good of the Ummah. 











						‘Bullets and batons’: Palestinian Authority beats back dissent
					

Palestinian activists are regularly arrested and beaten by the PA in the West Bank, Human Rights Watch says.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Palestinian activists are regularly arrested and beaten by the PA in the West Bank, Human Rights Watch says.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Fight Egypt and Jordan from 1948 to 1967?  No.  Other Muslims and Arabs made enemies of the Palestinian People?  No)

When 6 Palestinian terrorists escaped from an Israeli prison earlier this month, senior Fatah official Abbas Zaki was quick to reiterate PA ideology when it comes to Palestinian prisoners. In two separate interviews, Zaki stated that it is PA policy to “honor” anyone who fights Israel - the enemy - including those using the “armed struggle,” and that imprisoned terrorists are “our elite and most favored people” and deserve salaries.












> *Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki:*“Our custom in the Palestinian arena is to honor everyone who waved this flag of struggle and fought against this enemy – whether with a pen, politics, armed struggle, or diplomatic activity.”
> [Official PA TV News, Sept. 7, 2021]












> *Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki:* “We have approximately 543 prisoners who were sentenced to life… Israel is also preventing the payment of salaries to them. They want to turn our elite and most favored people into terrorists.”
> [Al-Mayadeen TV (Lebanon), Sept. 10, 2021]


Palestinian Media Watch has reported on numerous statements by Zaki in which he has expressed his support for terror and terrorists.

*Abbas Zaki* also holds the position as Fatah Commissioner for Arab and China Relations

(full article online)









						Fatah official: Terrorist prisoners are "our elite and most favored ‎people”‎ | PMW Analysis
					

We “honor everyone” who fought Israel, “the enemy,” with “armed struggle,” says Fatah official




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> (Fight Egypt and Jordan from 1948 to 1967?  No.  Other Muslims and Arabs made enemies of the Palestinian People?  No)
> 
> When 6 Palestinian terrorists escaped from an Israeli prison earlier this month, senior Fatah official Abbas Zaki was quick to reiterate PA ideology when it comes to Palestinian prisoners. In two separate interviews, Zaki stated that it is PA policy to “honor” anyone who fights Israel - the enemy - including those using the “armed struggle,” and that imprisoned terrorists are “our elite and most favored people” and deserve salaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch has reported on numerous statements by Zaki in which he has expressed his support for terror and terrorists.
> 
> *Abbas Zaki* also holds the position as Fatah Commissioner for Arab and China Relations
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah official: Terrorist prisoners are "our elite and most favored ‎people”‎ | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> We “honor everyone” who fought Israel, “the enemy,” with “armed struggle,” says Fatah official
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


Resistance is justified when people are occupied.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian Media Watch has reported on numerous statements by Zaki in which he has expressed his support for terror and terrorists.


Not true.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Resistance is justified when people are occupied.


What people are occupied?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> What people are occupied?



I think he's talking about some muslim squatters.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Question on Armed Justification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Yeah, The assumption is so very similar to the Virginia Tilley work in her book:  Beyond Occupation: Apartheid, Colonialism and International Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territories which calls on the 2007 *Report from the Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights (HR) situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories* (OpT).  Professor Virginia Tilley (_Political Science at Southern Illinois University-Carbondale_) executes the Arab Palestinian strategy of assembling a jagged set of similarities that mimic apartheid and colonialism to demonstrate that the Occupation (_alla _Article 43, 1907 Hague Regulation) and the *Oslo Accords which the Arab Palestinians agreed to (*_Special Provisions concerning Area C_), are contrary to international law. 


P F Tinmore said:


> Resistance is justified when people are occupied.


*(COMMENT)*
.
So there is still a question as to who is claiming what and against whom?

And most importantly, how can these accusations apply given the Ramallah Government actually meets the prerequisite:

(a) a permanent population;​(b) *a defined territory*;​(c) *government*; and​(d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​​​.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> (a) a permanent population;(b) *a defined territory*;(c) *government*; and(d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.


Palestine has a population that dates back hundreds even thousands of years.

Palestine has international borders defined by treaties.

Palestine has signed on to international conventions and even had a trade agreement with the US. Palestine engaged in international trade.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


There's an obvious need to talk about Israeli safety when the islamic terrorist gee-had is being waged.


----------



## Hollie

Strange, that. Wasn't the ''country of Pal'istan'' invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne? 

The ''country of Pal'istan'' was instantly filled with 'Pal'istanians' in 1967 by the decree of an Egyptian who invented those 'Pal'istanians'. 











						Would a Palestinian State Be a Failure? - The Tower
					

While the West debates over the future of the "two-state solution," few are asking the hard questions about what a Palestinian state would actually look like--and whether it would work at all. EYLON ASLAN-LEVY takes a hard look.




					www.thetower.org
				



If a state of Palestine were given independence tomorrow, would it become a failed state? Considering the international community’s conviction that Palestinian statehood holds the keys to a peaceful and prosperous Middle East, one would hope this nightmare scenario would be far-fetched. But a close examination reveals that this is wishful thinking. The truth is that, upon its birth, a state of Palestine would rank among the most fragile states in the world. And far from contributing to Middle East peace, the emergence of a new fragile state in a splintering region would result in increased conflict and instability, with potentially devastating consequences for its people, neighbors, and the international order​​
​


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has international borders defined by treaties.



What treaties? Who signed them? When?

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  I find it hard to believe 



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has a population that dates back hundreds even thousands of years.


*(COMMENT)*

My My, While this is true, it actually means nothing.  (Think About this.)  *IF* the cradle of civilization was somewhere in Africa, *THEN* a large percentage of the people on the planet are descendants of forebearers that passed through that region of the world.



​This concept that the Arab Palestinians have some sort of exclusive heritage (thousands of years old) to the territory is getting old.  You can drop-kick that argument to the trash.  Hell, I can claim linage to the region that dates back ≈ 12,000 years.  But the idea of territorial control has a contemporary meaning.  And in the last millennium, the Arab Palestinians of today demonstrated almost no control over the territory.


P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has international borders defined by treaties.


*(COMMENT)*

I am totally unaware of any International Treaty that delineates a nation called Palestine.  Certainly no treaty during the 20th Century such a territory.  That is especially true of the Treaty of Lausanne.  So you have an opportunity to school me here.  What Treaty is that of which you speak?


P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has signed on to international conventions and even had a trade agreement with the US. Palestine engaged in international trade.


*(COMMENT)*
.
International Trade and Commerce has no being on territorial control. The US had Treaties that effectively ended privacy all along the Barbary Coast. But even the Oslo Accords (the establishment of a Palestinian Interim Self-Government Authority) recognizes authorities under the Areas designated "A" - "B" - and "C." And that International Accord (_an international agreement concluded between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in written form and governed by international law_) delineates the Special Provisions concerning Area "C."

When the Israelis established effective control over the West Bank in 1967, it was governed by Jordan.  When the Government of Jordan abandon political control of the West Bank there was no authority made up of Arab Palestinians to take over as the Government.  The Arab League had in 1974 recognized the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  But it had not assembled a self-governing institution of any kind. 
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> When the Government of Jordan abandon political control of the West Bank there was no authority made up of Arab Palestinians to take over as the Government.


Where do you get the idea that guns are necessary for the existence of a state? The rights of a state are (supposed to be) protected by law not necessarily by a military.



> ARTICLE 4





> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933



The people are the sovereigns in their defined territory. They are the ones who can, if they want, create a government.

Who created the government of the US? "We the people." The sovereigns of the territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get the idea that guns are necessary for the existence of a state? The rights of a state are (supposed to be) protected by law not necessarily by a military.
> 
> ​
> The people are the sovereigns in their defined territory. They are the ones who can, if they want, create a government.
> 
> Who created the government of the US? "We the people." The sovereigns of the territory.



Is the above to mean you're going to rattle on..... again..... about the Treaty of Lausanne inventing the "country of Pal'istan" and those "new states" which don't exist?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> But even the Oslo Accords


Agreements can only be signed between states. The state of Israel and the state of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Is the above to mean you're going to rattle on..... again..... about the Treaty of Lausanne inventing the "country of Pal'istan" and those "new states" which don't exist?
> 
> Link?


Nope. That is your rattle.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Nope. That is your rattle.


Where does one find the invention of your mythical "state of Pal'istan" in the Treaty of Lausanne? 

Anything yet on those "new states" you claim were invented by the "Treaty of Lausanne"?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Agreements can only be signed between states. The state of Israel and the state of Palestine.



Oslo was the only agreement ever signed by the state of Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Where does one find the invention of your mythical "state of Pal'istan" in the Treaty of Lausanne?
> 
> Anything yet on those "new states" you claim were invented by the "Treaty of Lausanne"?


I don't know.   I don't hear the voices in your head.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't know.   I don't hear the voices in your head.


The "country of Pal'istan" wasn't invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne? There were no "new states" invented?

Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?


----------



## Hollie

This is apartheid. The government of Sudan is in no hurry to release seized assets Abbas claims belongs to the Pally terrorists.













						Palestinian Authority urges Sudan to hand over assets it seized from Hamas
					

'The Palestinian people are in need of this money, especially our great people under siege in Gaza,' top Abbas adviser says




					www.google.com
				





Palestinian Authority urges Sudan to hand over assets it seized from Hamas

'The Palestinian people are in need of this money, especially our great people under siege in Gaza,' top Abbas adviser says

25 September 2021, 8:34 pm  
Palestinian Authority urges Sudan to hand over assets it seized from Hamas
Palestinian Authority Civil Affairs Commissioner Hussein al-Sheikh. (WAFA)
The Palestinian Authority has called on Sudan’s government to hand over assets that it seized from Hamas as part of a recent crackdown on the terror group.

Hussein al-Sheikh, a close confidant of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, tweeted on Saturday: “We hope that the sisterly state of Sudan, which has always been with the people of Palestine, both the people and the government, will hand over the movable and immovable funds that were confiscated [from Hamas] to the State of Palestine and its government.”


----------



## Hollie

It appears that the IDF had actionable Intel that caused them to launch an anti gee-had operation. 











						IDF chief says troops hurt in West Bank raid foiled imminent attacks
					

Visiting the wounded soldiers, Aviv Kohavi says Hamas cell would be 'at an advanced stage' of terror plot were it not for army op; hospital reports troops' conditions improving




					www.google.com
				




Security forces acted tonight in Judea and Samaria against Hamas terrorists who were poised to carry out terror attacks in the immediate future,” Bennett said in a statement, en route to New York to speak at the United Nations General Assembly, using the biblical term for the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

It's just a game of oneupsmanship the islamic terrorist franchises play against each other. 











						Hamas rejects Palestinian Authority’s call for municipal elections
					

Islamist terror group plans to boycott local Palestinian vote unless presidential, legislative elections also held; PA president indefinitely delayed national vote in April




					www.google.com
				




Islamist terror group plans to boycott local Palestinian vote unless presidential, legislative elections also held; PA president indefinitely delayed national vote in April


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Consider not using children as mere disposable commodities for spreading propaganda.

Reconsider breeding for the purpose of producing children to throw onto the bonfire of hatred you call gee-had. 

Take responsibility for your actions.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I did not mention armed struggle.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where do you get the idea that guns are necessary for the existence of a state? The rights of a state are (supposed to be) protected by law not necessarily by a military.


*(COMMENT)*

OMG...  The concepts of democracy are not universally accepted.   



P F Tinmore said:


> The people are the sovereigns in their defined territory. They are the ones who can, if they want, create a government.
> 
> Who created the government of the US? "We the people." The sovereigns of the territory.


*(COMMENT)*

The problem is, that the Israelis beat the Arab Palestinians to it and made smarter choices.  And that is substantiated by the number of times the Arab Palestinians rejected the incorporation into building self-governing institutions.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I did not mention armed struggle.


You always talk about control implying military power.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: General Question
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I did not mention armed struggle.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OMG...  The concepts of democracy are not universally accepted.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem is, that the Israelis beat the Arab Palestinians to it and made smarter choices.  And that is substantiated by the number of times the Arab Palestinians rejected the incorporation into building self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


You missed the point of my post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You missed the point of my post.


Your predictable dance.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Islamist Ra’am Party is warning that Israeli flags on the Temple Mount are a “red line” for its constituents, the Hebrew-language _Ynet_ site reported Tuesday night.

Ra’am is a member of the Israeli government coalition.

(full article online)









						Islamist Ra’am Party Warns Israeli Flags on Temple Mount a ‘Red Line’
					

The Islamist Ra’am Party is warning that Israeli flags on the Temple Mount are a “red line” for its constituents, the Hebrew-language Ynet site reported Tuesday night.Ra'am is a member of th




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> The Islamist Ra’am Party is warning that Israeli flags on the Temple Mount are a “red line” for its constituents, the Hebrew-language _Ynet_ site reported Tuesday night.
> 
> Ra’am is a member of the Israeli government coalition.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist Ra’am Party Warns Israeli Flags on Temple Mount a ‘Red Line’
> 
> 
> The Islamist Ra’am Party is warning that Israeli flags on the Temple Mount are a “red line” for its constituents, the Hebrew-language Ynet site reported Tuesday night.Ra'am is a member of th
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com



I agree, they should remove their mosques.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two Palestinian brothers were arrested in Belgium in the past week after they threatened their sister and brother-in-law for being "too western," according to Belgian media. After their arrest, a partially completed explosive device was found in the home of one of the brothers.

The two reportedly broke into their sister's home in Antwerp last week and assaulted her and her husband for being "too western." One brother was arrested on the evening of the assault, while the second brother surrendered to police at a later date.

One of the brothers is being investigated on suspicion of participating in the actions of a terrorist group and possessing illegal weapons after "a half-completed explosive device, gunpowder and several empty cartridge cases" were found at his home in Roeselare, the Federal Judicial Authorities in Belgium told VRT news.

(full article online)









						Explosive found in apartment of Palestinian in Belgium
					

A partially complete explosive was found in the apartment of a Palestinian in Belgium.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

I find it difficult to believe that anyone can use the terms "peace partners" and expect islamic terrorists to be a part of that conversation. 










						Abbas’ UN speech explains why he is no partner for peace | PMW Analysis
					

One needs look no further than the recent speech by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, in order to understand why he is not a partner for peace




					www.palwatch.org
				




Abbas’ UN speech explains why he is no partner for peace
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Sep 29, 2021
One needs look no further than the recent speech by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, in order to understand why he is not a partner for peace. Referring to the creation of the State of Israel as a “catastrophe,” rewriting history, rejecting criticism of the PA terror reward payments, and telling outright lies, were just some of the highlights.

Here’s a quick overview:

Creation of Israel was a “catastrophe”

Abbas started his speech noting that “This year marks the 73rd anniversary of the Nakba.” The word “Nakba”, which in English means a “catastrophe,” is the Palestinian terminology used to refer to the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. For Abbas and the PA, the problem is not the Israeli settlements built in Judea and Samaria after 1967 and the Six-Day War, but rather the very existence of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Make no mistake about the priorities of the Pally terrorist enterprise. They tell us in no uncertain terms that the misfits they create are created for a purpose. 











						PA PM Shtayyeh repeats Abbas’ vow that last penny will be paid to terrorist prisoners | PMW Analysis
					

Broadcast over 40 times on official PA TV: Abbas: “Even if I’m left with one penny, I’ll pay it to the families of the Martyrs, to the prisoners, and to the wounded”




					palwatch.org
				




PA PM Shtayyeh repeats Abbas’ vow that last penny will be paid to terrorist prisoners​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 30, 2021




*Broadcast over 40 times on official PA TV:
Abbas: “Even if I’m left with one penny, I’ll pay it to the families of the Martyrs, to the prisoners, and to the wounded”*​
*PA Grand Mufti: “We are hearing [it]… from the top of the pyramid His Honor President Abbas said clearly: ’Even if I’m left with one penny, I’ll pay it to the prisoners, the prisoners’ families, and the families of the Martyrs’”*​
*Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs: “Abbas has repeatedly emphasized… that if one penny is left in the treasury of the PA it will be paid to our brave prisoners”*​


----------



## Hollie

Pally'land - the things you actually hear about.





__





						Woman shot dead in Jerusalem as Israel-Palestine violence escalates
					





					www.msn.com
				




Israeli police fatally shot a Palestinian woman who tried to stab officers in Jerusalem's Old City on Thursday, AFP reported.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: I'm not at all sure that the Palestinian National Movement (PNM) actually has a central theme.  I believe that the Palestinians are divided on the subject of goal, and objective.



Hollie said:


> PA PM Shtayyeh repeats Abbas’ vow that last penny will be paid to terrorist prisoners​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Sep 30, 2021


*(COMMENT)*

While the issue of prisoners is one of the 9 topical issues on the open agenda expressed by the Negotiations Affairs Department (NAD), it is a domestic issue within the General Palestinian Population (GPP).  






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: General Question
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: I'm not at all sure that the Palestinian National Movement (PNM) actually has a central theme.  I believe that the Palestinians are divided on the subject of goal, and objective.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While the issue of prisoners is one of the 9 topical issues on the open agenda expressed by the Negotiations Affairs Department (NAD), it is a domestic issue within the General Palestinian Population (GPP).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


The Palestinians have a constitutional mandate to take care of their people. Foreign name calling does not change that.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have a constitutional mandate to take care of their people. Foreign name calling does not change that.


*(COMMENT)*

A valid and sound description is nomenclature with a definition - not name-calling.

Tell us how well the Arab Palestinians are leading their country...

R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: General Question
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A valid and sound description is nomenclature with a definition - not name-calling.
> 
> Tell us how well the Arab Palestinians are leading their country...
> 
> R


Israel plays anti Semite and terrorist cards by the case. Like they are trying to sell something.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel plays anti Semite and terrorist cards by the case. Like they are trying to sell something.


Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have a constitutional mandate to take care of their people. Foreign name calling does not change that.


They have an ideological mandate to fulfill the goals of a 7th century war lord. 1,400 years of human progress has not changed that..


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Link?


Show me anything out of Israel that does not play anti Semite and/or terrorist cards.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: Window-dressing Mandates and signed Agreements mean absolutely nothing to the Arab Palestinians.  The promise made by an Arab Palestinian is (in reality tested in practice) worthless.

P F Tinmore said:
The Palestinians have a constitutional mandate to take care of their people. Foreign name calling does not change that.


Hollie said:


> They have an ideological mandate to fulfill the goals of a 7th century war lord. 1,400 years of human progress has not changed that..


*(COMMENT)*

It is not about "ideology" and certainly not about a continuation of human development (_what little they have accomplished in the last thousand years_).    It is about a struggle for the accumulation of wealth and the presentation of power.  The Arab League does not want radicals on two sides.  





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Show me anything out of Israel that does not play anti Semite and/or terrorist cards.


It's up to you to support your claim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's up to you to support your claim.


There are Israeli Propaganda sites posted all over the place. Pick one. Here is your last one.









						PA PM Shtayyeh repeats Abbas’ vow that last penny will be paid to terrorist prisoners | PMW Translations
					

PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh: “From our perspective, the prisoners are the heart of the Palestinian national movement throughout history… The US is punishing us, and Israel is punishing us because we are taking care of the prisoners’ affairs. As President Abbas says: “Even if we are left...”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There are Israeli Propaganda sites posted all over the place. Pick one. Here is your last one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA PM Shtayyeh repeats Abbas’ vow that last penny will be paid to terrorist prisoners | PMW Translations
> 
> 
> PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh: “From our perspective, the prisoners are the heart of the Palestinian national movement throughout history… The US is punishing us, and Israel is punishing us because we are taking care of the prisoners’ affairs. As President Abbas says: “Even if we are left...”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


So..... are we to believe that youtube and facebook are Zionist propaganda sites because they carry the rants of islamic terrorist misfits?


----------



## Hollie

Self-delusion and denial with regard to the Pallys promotion and sponsorship of terrorism is rampant among the international community. There is no possibility of detoxifying the hatred Pally misfits feel for Israelis and Westerners when both of those parties tacitly or actively finance and enable Pally islamic terrorism.













						Fatah and PA municipality erect monument in honor of terrorist murderer | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah and Jenin Municipality are currently in the process of erecting this monument for terrorist murderer Kamal Abu Wa’er




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah and PA municipality erect monument in honor of terrorist murderer​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 1, 2021




This monument in honor of terrorist murderer Kamal Abu Wa’er exemplifies the great efforts the PA and Fatah spend on inculcating in the minds of Palestinians the ideology that terrorist murderers are heroes and role models.


----------



## Hollie

"Pallys complain''. They complain about everything.

As the Arab Middle East continues to see (and tacitly admit) the economic and social benefits of trade, commerce and industry with Israel, the Pallys are going to be marginalized and ignored. 








__





						Palestinians Complain That Some Arab States Are Not Following Their Orders
					

The Palestinians are enraged that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are attempting to block their resolution, to be voted on at the upcoming Arab League meeting, that condemns the UAE’s “normalization” of relations with Israel. The story is here. The United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and other...




					www.jihadwatch.org
				




The Palestinians are enraged that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are attempting to block their resolution, to be voted on at the upcoming Arab League meeting, that condemns the UAE’s “normalization” of relations with Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Thursday, the Commodore Hotel in Gaza hosted a Hamas-sponsored conference called "The Promise of the Hereafter - Palestine after Liberation," a science-fiction fantasy of what things would look like when Hamas defeats Israel.

The final communique of the conference described things like how the new Palestine would inherit Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan and maritime agreements with Greece, for example.

But what would happen to the Jews?

According to the final statement, here is what would happen to Israel's Jews.

Members of the IDF must be fought and presumably killed. 

Jewish "fugitives" can be prosecuted for their crimes.

"Pacifists" who surrender to Hamas and accept their rule "can be accommodated or allowed to leave" - this is an issue that deserves closer consideration, according to the statement. So even Jews who want to be second class dhimmis under Muslim rule would not automatically become citizens.

But Hamas doesn't want to ethnically cleanse all the Jews immediately. After all, the Jews are smart and know how to run a nation! 




> [We must] keep the Jews, scholars and experts in the fields of medicine, engineering, technology, civil and military industry, for a while and not let them leave with the knowledge, science and experience they acquired while they reside on our land and eat our good, and we pay the price for all of that from our humiliation, poverty, disease, deprivation, killing and imprisonment.



It is funny that even Hamas admits that Palestinians cannot run a state without learning what they need to learn from the Jews.

Also, it is a priority to take over Israeli intelligence information to hunt down Jews and friends of Jews around the world:

(full article online)









						Hamas-sponsored conference determines what to do with the Jews after "liberation of Palestine"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Iamartiewhitefox

Art__Allm said:


> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?


Muslims. Some Muslims say they are not Muslims, still being Muslims talking about Islam.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to a brief statement by the Israel Defense Forces spokesperson’s unit, “a bag containing grenades was seized from the suspects.”

“The suspects were taken for questioning by security forces,” the statement further added.

Last week the Israeli military announced that it thwarted a series of terrorist attacks Hamas planned to carry out against Israeli targets, on the heels of escalating clashes in the West Bank.

(full article online)









						IDF Arrest 2 Gazans Trying to Infiltrate into Israel Armed with Grenades
					

Hamas supporters take part in a protest against Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to postpone planned parliamentary elections, in the …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Iamartiewhitefox

Sixties Fan said:


> According to a brief statement by the Israel Defense Forces spokesperson’s unit, “a bag containing grenades was seized from the suspects.”
> 
> “The suspects were taken for questioning by security forces,” the statement further added.
> 
> Last week the Israeli military announced that it thwarted a series of terrorist attacks Hamas planned to carry out against Israeli targets, on the heels of escalating clashes in the West Bank.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF Arrest 2 Gazans Trying to Infiltrate into Israel Armed with Grenades
> 
> 
> Hamas supporters take part in a protest against Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ decision to postpone planned parliamentary elections, in the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com


Jewish people lived on all of that land 300 years before Muslim was a name. Muslims tried to obliterate all life around them when they came to be. God is long suffering towards them wanting them to change.  They are resisting God's Spirit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the PA regularly presents terrorists as role models. One of the most lauded role models in Palestinian society, and for women in particular, is terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led the killing of 37 Israelis, among them 12 children, in 1978.

Therefore it was positive sign when a column in the official PA daily highlighted the achievements of female students, stressing that their grade averages were higher than male students, adding that this refutes the male chauvinist view that women are less capable and should stay at home:



> “The rate of female students who succeeded in the high school final exams and the fact that they lead their male counterparts in the first ten places (i.e., the ten students with the highest grade averages) debunked all the claims of those sounding the expression: ‘Women are mentally and religiously inferior,’ and those who say that a woman’s place is in the home.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 5, 2021]


And not only did the column say that female students did better in high school exams, but it singled out 3 female engineers:



> “Alaa Abu Awad, Diala Andonia, Mais Bani Odeh, and Majd Al-Malki are four *young engineers*. As we see, *three of the group are women. They participated in an international competition*… and *their project* that deals with rehabilitating the Beirut Port *won… They reached first place* out of 24 projects from 13 states.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Aug. 5, 2021]


So are positive role models for Palestinian women going to replace terrorist role models?

Probably not. Unfortunately the last sentence in the article reverts back to the standard terror supporting PA ideology. Having given Palestinian women credit for their academic achievements, the columnist ends mentioning Palestinian women’s fundamental role as supporters of terrorists:



> “behind every fighter, Martyr, or prisoner stands a lauded woman.”











						Female engineers presented as role models for Palestinian women – an alternative to glorifying female terrorists? | PMW Analysis
					

Are positive role models for Palestinian women emerging? Possibly — but this does not replace their fundamental role, which is supporting terrorists




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Interesting negotiating tactic used by the islamic terrorists. Prior to a meeting about some 'two state' solution, Abbas makes a call to the parents of psychopaths he creates. 

Think 'peace partners'. 












						Before meeting Meretz ministers, Abbas called parents of Palestinian attackers
					

Palestinian Authority leader spoke with fathers of men who tried to stab police in Jerusalem, shoot troops in West Bank; Israeli opposition pans talks in Ramallah




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Ahead of a meeting with ministers from the Meretz party on Sunday, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas spoke with the parents of two Palestinians who were killed recently as they carried out attacks on Israeli security forces.

Official Palestinian news agency Wafa reported that Abbas called the father of Israa Khuzaimia, who police said was shot dead last Thursday as she tried to stab officers in the Old City of Jerusalem. Abbas offered his condolences over the death of Khuzaimia, 30, a mother of four.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This article in Khabar Press is more bizarre than the usual Palestinian analyses of Israel.

Bassam Abu Sharif, a former leader of the PFLP and later an advisor to Yasir Arafat, manages to contradict himself within the same paragraph, after he claimed that Naftali Bennett's UN speech was a veiled threat to Israel's - allies.

---------------

Abu Sharif goes on to say that Israel only uses these completely unnecessary threats when the world is turning against it, to keep alive its territorial ambitions on the West Bank - and the East Bank.

He goes on to describe how close Israel is to collapse, and how it leads the world in money laundering and drug smuggling in Europe. He ends off by giving Israeli Jews some advice:



> If I were in the place of any citizen in Israel, I would start packing my bags to go home in New York, Paris, Brussels or Amsterdam.


Abu Sharif has shown a penchant for hallucinations previously. He once said that David Ben Gurion was responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and Yemenite Jews were going to assassinate Barack Obama and blame Al Qaeda.

(full article online)









						PLO leader and former advisor to Arafat: Israel threatens defense contractors, led by Jews, to give them weapons
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier todayI quoted an article by a former PFLP leader who later became a senior advisor to Yasir Arafat who claimed that rich Jews controlled US defense contractors and gave their technology to Israel for free, where somehow Israel took credit for them after threatening them....it made no sense but it is unquestionably antisemitic.

Here's another antisemitic article published this past weekend from a former Palestinian political leader, Dr. Ghazi Husain, currently  legal advisor and head of administration in the Political Department of the Palestine Liberation Organization in Damascus.

You don't have to go far into the article to see Husain fall down the rabbit hole of Nazi-style antisemitism:



> The facts and events since the crystallization of Zionism as an ideology and a global political movement whose backbone is Jewish settler colonialism from the Nile to the Euphrates, and the secret decisions of the First Zionist Congress known as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion clearly prove the impossibility of coexisting with the Zionist entity, which is the practical embodiment of lies and ambitions, Biblical, Talmudic, Zionism, colonialism and Israel.



He covers a lot of Jew-hating territory in only two paragraphs! And Husain is another elder statesman of Palestinian nationalism.

From the Mufti through Arafat through Abbas, antisemitism has been the backbone of Palestinian nationalism. Most of the world refuses to believe it, but the original thinkers of the movement continue to publish explicitly antisemitic articles in Arabic for Arab audiences - today.


(full article online)









						Another Palestinian leader spouting antisemitism that the West will ignore
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

If the land would be leased to a Muslim, no one would care. If it would be leased to Christians, no one would care. But when it is leased to a Jew - not an Israeli, but a Jew  -the furor proves yet again that anti-Zionism is merely a thin camouflage for old fashioned Jew-hatred.

(full article online)









						Palestinians upset at Armenian church leasing out land to a Jew. Not Israeli - Jew.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, Pally'ism is about glorification of mass murder / suicidal psychopaths represented as models for the society. 












						European-funded foundation trains Palestinian teachers using text on child-murderer as example | PMW Analysis
					

The A.M Qattan Foundation trained Palestinian teachers in a specific education approach using a 5th grade lesson describing terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37, including 12 kids, as a hero




					www.palwatch.org
				




European-funded foundation trains Palestinian teachers using text on child-murderer as example
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 5, 2021
The A.M Qattan Foundation trained Palestinian teachers in a specific education approach using a 5th grade lesson describing terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37, including 12 kids, as a hero
“Co-funding partners” of the foundation include the EU, France, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, UNICEF, and UNRWA
Lesson includes praise for terrorist murderer: “Dalal rode the sea while leading her group of [13] self-sacrificing fighters… Dalal and eight of her heroic squad members ascended to Heaven as Martyrs… [Dalal] watered the soil of Palestine with her pure blood, and brought to bloom a history full of unrelenting revolution"


----------



## Hollie

There is no option other than to issue a “*Hurt* *Feelings*” Alert.

It seems Pallys are indignant because they claim Facebook has censored or removed their accounts. 

What a horrible thing.

I suppose the Pallys feel an entitlement to use Facebook as Fatah does and use that media outlet to promote and glorify the killers and misfits they create. 










						Palestinian journalists accuse Facebook of censorship
					

News agencies and digital rights group raise concerns of anti-Palestinian bias at social media company




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




A Palestinian data rights group, two news agencies and a translator have filed a legal complaint with Facebook, saying the social media giant censored their posts and, in some cases, shut down their accounts in violation of the company's own policies.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On September 30, 2021, the London-based Qatari _Al-Quds Al-Arabi_ daily reported on a meeting that took place that day between Palestinian Authority (PA) Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh and Israeli Arab journalists, including a correspondent for Al-Quds Al-Arabi. According to the report, Shtayyeh asked that the meeting, which took place in his office, not be recorded. In the meeting, he said that Israel is not interested in a solution to the Palestinian issue – neither the two-state solution nor the one-state solution – and persists in its efforts to fragment the Palestinian people and ignore its cause. Given this reality, he said, there will be no choice but to go back to the starting point of the Palestinian issue in 1948, and in that situation the Palestinian people "from the river to the sea" will have a single united leadership. He also stated that Israel is bound to "die demographically since the Jewish human reservoir in the world has dwindled." He added that, in a meeting one month ago in Ramallah between PA President Mahmoud 'Abbas and Israeli Foreign Minister Benny Gantz, the former said that if the two-state solution was not implemented, the solution would be to return to the 1947 partition resolution. Ganz, said Shtayyeh, was astonished by the Palestinian president's words.   

According to the report, Shtayyeh also expressed disappointment in the current U.S. administration which, he said, has promised to reopen the U.S. consulate in East Jerusalem and the PLO offices in Washington, and to renew funding to organizations aiding the Palestinians, but in practice has done almost nothing to fulfill these promises. 

It should be noted that, in his speech at the September 24, 2021 UN General Assembly, 'Abbas gave Israel an ultimatum, saying it has one year to withdraw to the 1967 borders and reach a permanent solution with the Palestinians, otherwise the Palestinians will revoke their recognition of Israel. He stressed that, in such a situation, various options will be available, including "returning to a solution based on the partition plan of resolution 181 (II), adopted in 1947, which gives the State of Palestine 44% of the land," and appealing to the International Court of Justice "on the issue of the legality of the occupation of the land of the Palestinian state."*[1]*

The following are translated excerpts from the report in _Al-Quds Al-Arabi_._

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh: If The Two-State Solution Falls Apart We Will Return To The Starting Point Of 1948 And 'The Palestinian People, From The River To The Sea, Will Have A Single Leadership'; 'Israel Is Bound To Die
					

On September 30, 2021, the London-based Qatari Al-Quds Al-Arabi daily reported on a meeting that took place that day between Palestinian Authority (PA) Prime Minister Muhammad Sht




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

*Apartheid*™











						Israel to issue 16,000 more work permits for Palestinians - France 24
					

Israel to issue 16,000 more work permits for Palestinians




					www.france24.com
				




Israel announced Wednesday it is to issue 16,000 more permits for Palestinians from the occupied West Bank to work in its construction and hotel industries, taking the total to over 100,000.


Oh. Never mind.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The rocket came from an underground Hamas rocket launch site with 10 silos. It flew 7.5 kilometers to Beit Hanoun, where it killed the al-Masry family.

The silos were located next to a mosque in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood.

This occurred at 6 PM on May 10, either before or within minutes of any Israeli airstrikes in Gaza.

Even though Defense for Children - International believed that this might have been a "homemade" rocket, Human Rights Watch decided months later this was an Israeli missile after its sham "investigation."



> On May 10 near the town of Beit Hanoun, an Israeli-guided missile struck near four houses of the al-Masri family, killing 8 civilians, including 6 children.


HRW based its lies on "eyewitnesses" who said the rocket came from the east. and it decided, based on its experts who know literally nothing about weapons, that it was an Israeli anti-personnel missile. 

And so it goes - Hamas kills Gaza kids and Israel gets blamed.

(full article online)









						Rocket that killed six Gaza kids killed on first day of May conflict came from underground Hamas rocket bunker
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

During Hamas’ war against Israel in May, Israel condemned Hamas for using civilians as human shields. During the war, the PA and Fatah supported Hamas’ terror campaign and even encouraged Palestinians and Israeli Arabs to riot against Israeli civilians.

However, a few months later, Fatah is acknowledging that the Hamas war tactic was immoral because they used civilians including children as human shields.

A striking example of this is Fatah’s posting the above cartoon on the official website of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture. Accompanying the cartoon showing Hamas using an infant as a shield, are the words "Without explanation." [Website of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture, Aug. 29, 2021]

Similar criticism was expressed by Fatah in this cartoon depicting a man with “Hamas” written on him making a “V” for victory with one hand, while putting his other hand around the shoulders of a man with “The Palestinian people” written on him. The “Hamas” man is holding a target over the other man’s heart.

(full article online)









						Fatah mocks Hamas for using children as human shields when attacking Israel | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah is acknowledging that the Hamas war tactic was immoral because they used civilians including children as human shields




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

“I’ll Die Over My Rubble”: Israel’s Army Is Terrorizing This Palestinian Family​


----------



## P F Tinmore

‘They Came Here to Attack Arabs.’ Welcome to Life in Israel’s ‘Mixed Cities’​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Homes Are Being Demolished in Jerusalem​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> “I’ll Die Over My Rubble”: Israel’s Army Is Terrorizing This Palestinian Family​


Did they have building permits to build?  Any of these times?

Do they really believe they do not need a permit to build a home?

Jews do.  Why not Arabs?

And no.....It is not "your land".  It is not Palestinian land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> ‘They Came Here to Attack Arabs.’ Welcome to Life in Israel’s ‘Mixed Cities’​


How cute.  Invoke ISIS and the Nazis.

Oh, look....Pallywood !!!!

Well staged crying missing one's father.  If that is actually happening.  But it was so well staged.....
I doubt it.

First and foremost, Led is an ancient Jewish city:

*Lod* (Hebrew: לוד‎, לֹד‎; Arabic: اللد‎ _al-Lidd_, _al-Ludd_; Latin: _Lydda_, _Diospolis_, Ancient Greek: Λύδδα / Διόσπολις – city of Zeus) is a city 15 km (9.3 mi) southeast of Tel Aviv in the Central District of Israel. In 2019 it had a population of 77,223.[1]

The name is derived from the Biblical city of Lod,[2][3] and it was a significant Judean town from the Maccabean Period to the early Christian period. During the 1948 Arab–Israeli War most of the city's Arab inhabitants were expelled in the 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle, also known as the Lydda Death March.[4][5] The town was resettled by Jewish immigrants, most of them from Arab countries,[6][7]alongside 1,056 Arabs who remained.[6] Today, the city has an Arab population of 30%.[8]
--------------

So, when Palestinians (the word means Invaders) attempt to stop Jews from moving in.......well.....how right is that?

Can't these Arabs just learn and live in peace and learn how to make the city and their lives better?

Here is the whole story:









						In Lod unrest, Arab fury against ‘settler’ Jewish newcomers boils to surface
					

Residents of working class city say riots tapped into tensions with Garin Torani, a group of national-religious newcomers that reject being anti-Arab and say they are there to stay




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Jews are not allowed to live in ancient Jewish cities.  Because Arabs who have been taught that it is "Palestinian Land" do not want it.  After all, Jews have no rights, and must do as Muslims tell them to.

Oh, the good all days when Muslims could do anything they wanted to Jews in the Land of Israel, without any consequences .

And Tinmore is doing his Christian duty in helping those Arabs any way he can, any lies they tell, any demands they make for Jews to leave their ancient homeland so that Muslims can again do whatever they want with any Jew they want.


Well, that was last May, during the war Hamas started.  Hopefully things have gotten much better as Tinmore could not find a more recent video of any more attacks.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian Homes Are Being Demolished in Jerusalem​


Oh, you mean City of David?  As in King David, the Jewish king?

Could these building also have been built without a permit?

Palestinians do not need permits, maybe they say.  It is "their land", maybe?
Maybe they just keep dreaming they do not live in Israel?
-----------------

According to Israeli officials, the structure was built illegally in the al-Bustan area of Silwan, without a permit, on public land. Palestinians contend that their requests for permits are rarely granted by the Jerusalem municipality, giving them no choice but to build illegally.

alestinian residents said an additional 17 illegally built structures — including homes — have demolition orders in effect. The municipality has marked another 80 homes for demolition, but those orders are currently being fought in the courts.

According to a former Jerusalem municipality official, al-Bustan’s Palestinian residents have rejected numerous offers by the city to accept compromises that would leave most of the homes in place.

“Every year, we would go to the courts to update them on the negotiations with residents, and ask for an extension of the freeze [in demolitions]. At a certain point, the court decided that these were going nowhere,” said the former official.

The Jerusalem municipality has contended that it demolishes structures when Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem build illegally.

“To remove all doubt — orders against illegal construction are enforced throughout the city on a daily basis, in both the west and east of the city.,”  the municipality said in a statement.









						Palestinians clash with cops over demolition of East Jerusalem shop; 3 arrested
					

Two police officers, 13 Palestinians hurt in skirmishes in Silwan; Hamas, Islamic Jihad warn of potential 'explosion' in tense ceasefire with Israel should demolitions continue




					www.timesofisrael.com
				






Well, these are Arabs who are never going to want to love Israel as so many other Arabs have, and consider themselves proud Israelis.

Until the next generations do, they will feel themselves entitled to think that it is their land and "they" have been robbed of it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(But.....They are Jews.....They are Jews....and we Muslims conquered this land.......and they are still Jews.......and they need to live under Muslim sovereignty.  Do as we have been saying for the previous 13 centuries.  It worked out so much better then )

She didn't say Jews could say prayers out loud. She didn't say they can build a synagogue. All the judge said is that Jews, standing respectfully and silently praying on the holiest Jewish site, cannot be considered to be doing anything criminal.

Can any statement be more obvious? What possible crime could there be?

Naturally, the Muslim world went a little crazy.

The Palestinian ministry of foreign affairs condemned Jews silently praying.



> In a press statement, the Palestinian ministry of foreign affairs said that it condemns "the unprecedented decision of an Israeli court granting Jews limited right to perform silent prayers in the courtyards of al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem."
> 
> "It is a flagrant aggression against al-Aqsa Mosque," the statement said.



The Arab League condemned the ruling:


> The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, condemned the Israeli court’s decision to allow Jews to pray in Al-Aqsa Mosque, which sets a dangerous precedent, and reflects the new government’s intentions and continuous plans to Judaize Jerusalem and target the Palestinian presence there.



Anyone who argues strenuously against the rights of Jews to quietly say prayers at the site of the First and Second Temples is simply an antisemite. One can argue that it isn't a good idea for various reasons (real and mostly imagined,) but to say Jews have no right to pray is saying that Jews should not have the same human rights as members of every other religion.

(full article online)









						Arab world freaks over court ruling that Jews can pray silently in their holiest spot (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Recently Palestinian Media Watch speculated whether new and positive role models – in particular for women - are emerging in the PA as an alternative to honoring terrorists like murderer Dalal Mughrabi. An episode of a PA TV children’s show, however, confirms that a change in the PA’s role modeling is still light years away.

On the show _From my country_, which is aimed at and hosted by children, several kids praised terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 25 adults and 12 children when she and other terrorists hijacked an Israeli bus full of civilians and killed many of the passengers in 1978.

The show is testimony to the result of decades of PA brainwashing. Today’s Palestinian children are well aware that mass-murderer Mughrabi led a “hijacking operation,” “died as a Martyr,” and was nicknamed “the Bride of Jaffa.” Official PA TV dedicated part of this children’s program to the terrorist, and in addition to interviewing children about her, they also had the child hosts teach child viewers details of murderer Mughrabi’s biography:













(full article online)









						5 kids on PA TV children’s show praise terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led murder of 25 adults and 12 children | PMW Analysis
					

On the show From my country, which is aimed at and hosted by children, several kids praised terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 25 adults and 12 children




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Religion of Peace™

Peace Partners™  

Yes. Suicide bombers, mass murdering psychopaths, gee-had killers basically define Messengers Of Peace™





Fatah Official Abbas Zaki: Israelis Are Sons Of Bitches, Murderers; They Are Messengers Of Instability, While We Are Messengers Of Peace


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Official: ‘China Will Lead the World, and Is On Our Side’
					

Beijing will accept whatever we accept, but knows we “want to make Israel swallow the poison one drop at a time,” says Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Say goodbye to Ahmad. Just another Pally linked sociopath to be forgotten as the product of a retrograde ideology.​

​The Lost Battle of Ahmad Jibril​








						The Lost Battle of Ahmad Jibril
					

Middle Eastern Affairs – This man had dedicated his life to Israel’s extermination. What remains of his legacy of violence?




					jstribune.com
				









PFLP-GC members in front of their flag during a rally in Shatila, Beirut. Photo credit: Karine Pierre / Hans Lucas via Reuters Connect

On July 7, 2021, a few hundred Palestinians gathered to attend a funeral at Yarmouk refugee camp cemetery, on the outskirts of Damascus. They came to say their farewells to Ahmad Jibril, the notorious secretary general of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, a man who embodied throughout his life a fruitless effort of Palestinian terrorist organizations to break or weaken Israel. In a symbolic fashion, his passing marked the end of an era


----------



## Hollie

Lacking any apparent ability to produce commerce or innovation, the Pallys pride themselves on producing sociopaths. 












						Fatah and PA Municipality Erect Monument in Honor of Terrorist Murderer
					

Supporters celebrate Fatah’s 55th anniversary in Gaza City on January 1, 2020. Photo: Fatah. http://fatehorg.ps/?p=16727 A new monument in honor …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




That the PA and Fatah honor terrorist murderers is not new. Palestinian Media Watch has exposed hundreds of schools, institutions, streets, squares, and other permanent public structures that have been named after terrorists and murderers, as well as activities like summer camps and military camps, sporting events, and festivals.

One such monument was erected by the PA to honor murderer Muhannad Halabi, a terrorist who stabbed two Israelis to death in the Old City of Jerusalem:






The PA municipality where murderer Halabi lived not only erected a memorial in his honor, but also named a road after him. This is who the Palestinian leaders are, and who they choose to celebrate.


----------



## Hollie

When your _Peace Partners_™ are intransigent retrogrades, be prepared to defend yourself. 



Fatah Leader in Jenin: Battle Will Only Be Over when the Occupation Is Removed from All of Palestine


----------



## Sixties Fan

A promotional flier for a course run by an internationally funded Palestinian NGO shows how the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian NGOs abuse international donors, duping them into funding ostensibly worthy causes but at the same time are supporting terror.

While Palestinian Media Watch welcomes European Union and United Nations funding for training courses for Palestinians, the problem arises when the courses offer full scholarships to the children of terrorist prisoners and dead terrorists, thereby rewarding the terrorists for their crimes.

Posted by Fatah Central Committee Deputy Secretary Sabri Saidam, the former PA Minister of Education and current advisor for communications and information technology to PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, a new flier is promoting a Digital Academy for Scientific Innovation (DASI) program run by the Palestinian NGO Al-Nayzak.

According to the flier, while the children of normative, law abiding Palestinian families are potentially entitled to a 65% discount for the course, the children of “*Martyrs and prisoners*” are entitled to a full scholarship. In other words, children of terrorists and murderers – be they imprisoned, released, or dead (so-called “Martyrs”) - are rewarded and can study for free.

(full article online)









						Innocent victims or terror supporters: Do the EU and the UN know that they are supporting scholarships for the children of terrorists? | PMW Analysis
					

While Palestinian Media Watch welcomes European Union and United Nations funding for training courses for Palestinians, the problem arises when the courses offer full scholarships to the children of terrorist prisoners and dead terrorists, thereby rewarding the terrorists for their crimes




					palwatch.org


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Which of those were killed by Hamas rockets?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Indeed -  all about greed...

everyone else should boycott Israel,
while they're going on shopping in Tel-Aviv:


Read more -
Who is the richest Hadid? The family’s net worths, ranked: from Gigi and Bella’s model millions to Yolanda’s RHOBH cash and Mohamed’s mansions​


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Indeed -  all about greed...
> 
> everyone else should boycott Israel,
> while they're going on shopping in Tel-Aviv:
> 
> 
> Read more -
> Who is the richest Hadid? The family’s net worths, ranked: from Gigi and Bella’s model millions to Yolanda’s RHOBH cash and Mohamed’s mansions​


Maybe Israel could get them fired for supporting Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Very likely, she was murdered by Hamas and the other groups in Gaza when their homemade rockets fell over her head, as it has happened with so many other Gazans.

Someone help the Gazan people from their leaders.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another ignorant Jew, or non Jew who has never been to Israel and does not know what Apartheid was really like.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



"We should extend our struggles to one another in order to end all of the world's injustices."

I agree, we should end Islam.


----------



## Hollie

As the ever-aggrieved party, always looking for their next opportunity to be outraged, the Pallys found a reason to be outraged about a Jewish man quietly praying near Islamisms 8,034th 'most holy site'.   











						Israeli court ruling on major holy site angers Palestinians
					

JERUSALEM (AP) — A ruling by a local Israeli court in favor of a Jewish man who prayed quietly at a flashpoint Jerusalem holy site has angered Muslim authorities, who denounced it on Thursday as a …




					www.wjhl.com
				




The ruling by a magistrate court in Jerusalem concerned a Jewish man who had been barred from the site for 15 days after Israeli police caught him quietly praying there. The court lifted the ban several days early, ruling that the man, “like many others, prays on a daily basis on the Temple Mount.”

Noting that he did so quietly and privately, the ruling said “this activity by itself is not enough to violate the police instructions.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


"We should extend our struggles to one another in order to end all of the world's injustices."

Ahed Tamimi


Send her an email asking to discuss the Hamas Charter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> "We should extend our struggles to one another in order to end all of the world's injustices."
> 
> Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> Send her an email asking to discuss the Hamas Charter.


Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.

She has nothing to do with Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.
> 
> She has nothing to do with Hamas.


I never implied she did.


----------



## Hollie

Yeah, violence as the only way forward. Thats a prescription that defines islamist history. 
Islamic ideology erases all boundaries between religion and politics, and denies its adherents any ethical obligation to non-islamists. There's no denying that the goals of the Hamas Charter have been non-negotiable so there is no reason to expect anything less than continued gee-had attacks. 











						What the Palestinians Want - Israel Today
					

Most no longer believe in two-state solution, see violence as only way forward; elections would make convicted terrorist president




					www.israeltoday.co.il
				




Most no longer believe in two-state solution, see violence as only way forward; elections would make convicted terrorist president


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud (''_I'll give you one year or else I'll have to give you another year_'') Abbas is apparently hoping for a slot on a late night talk show.

It seems he is proposing yet another Islamic Pally state.


----------



## Hollie

It's comedy gold when the Fatah islamic terrorist franchise mocks the competing franchise for using human shields. These franchises seem to be in a competition to offer-up the greater number.​​​​​Fatah mocks Hamas for using children as human shields when attacking Israel​








						Fatah mocks Hamas for using children as human shields when attacking Israel | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah is acknowledging that the Hamas war tactic was immoral because they used civilians including children as human shields




					palwatch.org
				




Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 6, 2021





During Hamas’ war against Israel in May, Israel condemned Hamas for using civilians as human shields. During the war, the PA and Fatah supported Hamas’ terror campaign and even encouraged Palestinians and Israeli Arabs to riot against Israeli civilians.


----------



## Hollie

Pally Mother of the Year, nominee.

I suppose this is what is to be expected from a society that glorifies self destruction in the act of mass murder / suicide. It’s routine as a performance of the Pally Islamic terrorist controlled media to laud the actions of the sociopaths they create and to then pay the families of the Islamic killers.












						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				





A mother’s pride: "I congratulate my son ... he died as a Martyr"​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 10, 2021

*“I am proud of my children… They are not spies, not land sellers, not collaborators, not drug addicts, and not gamblers.” *​
*“My children are going on the path of truth”*​
*PA Mufti urges dying in conflict: “Either [we’ll be] living in dignity on this land or [we’ll be] Martyrs in the belly of this land” *​



Israeli security forces raided a Hamas terror cell in the West Bank to thwart imminent terror attacks in the West Bank and in Israel, they had planned. During the raid, 5 terrorist were killed after opening fire against the Israeli forces, and another 20 cell members were arrested.


----------



## Hollie

Yet another example of the sickness that has become Pally'dom. 












						“Heroic prisoner sniper” - PA TV praises murderer of 10 | PMW Analysis
					

Official PA TV glorified him as the “heroic prisoner sniper” on the 18th anniversary of his imprisonment




					www.palwatch.org
				




“Heroic prisoner sniper” - PA TV praises murderer of 10

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 11, 2021

During the Palestinian Authority’s 5-year terror campaign – the second Intifada (2000-2005) – one Palestinian terrorist murdered 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus. His name was Thaer Hammad and he is serving 11 life sentences in an Israeli prison. He is also one of the PA’s terrorist darlings.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel getting more desperate every day.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel getting more desperate every day.


No youtube video?


----------



## Hollie

We're seeing the usual, bellicose threats from the islamic terrorist (Fatah), franchise. After decades of these threats to launch yet another gee-had. It just becomes tiresome listening to these sociopaths.  

Yeah, the islamic terrorists are going to... wait for it...
 "_open the gates of confrontation_”. 


What happened to the slogan, "_open the gates of Hell_?

I'm guessing that means Fatah has a list of disposable children they can throw onto their gee-had bonfire. 











						Fatah officials threaten terror: “resistance in all its forms, with all means” | PMW Analysis
					

“We’ll continue the resistance in all its forms, with all means, and with all our power to defend our Palestinian people”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Fatah officials threaten to use terror: “resistance in all its forms, with all means”

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 12, 2021

“We’ll continue the resistance in all its forms, with all means, and with all our power to defend our Palestinian people”“It may be that the forms of the resistance will change and be replaced… We aspire to true popular resistance, but if Israel continues this confrontation, it is liable to open the gates of confrontation”“Our rifles are clean and pure against the enemy” says PLO member, praising arch-terrorists

Following Israel’s September raid on a Hamas terror cell in the West Bank, which resulted in 5 terrorists being killed and dozens arrested, a Fatah official threatened that Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Movement will return to terror, using “resistance in all its forms”:


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

It's been a joke ever since.

In 2018, two members of its board resigned because of non-transparency and non-independence.

Now, a new audit report shows that despite millions of dollars put into it, the organization can point to zero accomplishments.

Its budget has never been published. No financial reports have been published. 

Employees were appointed without any regard to their qualifications. 

Office furniture was purchased without any oversight.

Board meetings were held without most members of the board.

Unauthorized people signed contracts on behalf of the entire organization.

There is no mechanism to identify any conflicts of interest by employees.

There has been tampering of electronic records.

In other words - business as usual for the PA. Cronies use their government positions for their own purposes, the people get screwed, and no one really expects any change.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority corruption continues (with little coverage)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority has canceled a meeting with FIFA President Gianni Infantino, Army Radio reported on Monday.

The cancellation is due to Infantino's scheduled appearance at Monday's Friedman Center's inaugural gala at the Museum of Tolerance in Jerusalem.

While Infantino's camp reportedly attempted to pass it off as a "schedule constraint," his appearance and scheduled speech are viewed by the PA as a "violation of the Islamic religion," Army Radio said.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority cancels meeting with FIFA president
					

The PA cancelled due to Gianni Infantino's appearance at Friedman Center's gala on Monday, which it views as a "violation of the Islamic religion."




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestinian Authority has canceled a meeting with FIFA President Gianni Infantino, Army Radio reported on Monday.
> 
> The cancellation is due to Infantino's scheduled appearance at Monday's Friedman Center's inaugural gala at the Museum of Tolerance in Jerusalem.
> 
> While Infantino's camp reportedly attempted to pass it off as a "schedule constraint," his appearance and scheduled speech are viewed by the PA as a "violation of the Islamic religion," Army Radio said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority cancels meeting with FIFA president
> 
> 
> The PA cancelled due to Gianni Infantino's appearance at Friedman Center's gala on Monday, which it views as a "violation of the Islamic religion."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com



Oh no!

I hope the palestinians don't stop playing soccer in protest.


----------



## Hollie

"Palestinians complain''

And July can be pretty hot. 

The point is, credence granted to a claimed grievance must have an objective basis. Pally terrorists whining about their wait for payments that reward the sociopaths they breed is  merely a representation of truly misplaced priorities.  This, coming from a group known for implacable hatreds and an unwillingness to meet even the most rudimentary standards of commonly accepted social mores.











						Palestinians complain of ‘humiliating’ wait at post office to collect PA terror stipends
					

"By Allah, this is unbearable, unbearable," says Latifa Abu Hmeid, mother to six terrorists.




					www.jns.org
				




Palestinians complain of ‘humiliating’ wait at post office to collect PA terror stipends​"By Allah, this is unbearable, unbearable," says Latifa Abu Hmeid, mother to six terrorists.





The Palestinian Authority has been forced to distribute its stipends to imprisoned terrorists and their families via the post office for a third month, despite recipients complaining that the process is “humiliating,” according to Israeli NGO Palestinian Media Watch.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

"Pallys Complain''

And the earth is spherical.

Arab nations understand that their politico-religious differences with Israel will be a simmering issue in any interaction but there are obvious trade, commerce and technology advantages that are too important to ignore. 

As time goes by, the shrill Pally whining will be less and less relevant as Arab states see the benefits of trade and less hostile relations with Israel. 







__





						Palestinians Complain That Some Arab States Are Not Following Their Orders
					

The Palestinians are enraged that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are attempting to block their resolution, to be voted on at the upcoming Arab League meeting, that condemns the UAE’s “normalization” of relations with Israel. The story is here. The United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and other...




					www.jihadwatch.org
				




The Palestinians are enraged that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are attempting to block their resolution, to be voted on at the upcoming Arab League meeting, that condemns the UAE’s “normalization” of relations with Israel. The story is here.



> *The United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and other Gulf states are trying to foil a Palestinian draft resolution that aims to prevent normalization between Israel and the Arab countries, Palestinian officials said Sunday.*


----------



## Hollie

Some disturbing behavior by "Peaceful Inner Strugglers" in Israel. 












						Arab Israeli Educator On Israel/Palestine: We Must Invest In Our Community Inside Israel
					

Dr. Dalia Fadila, an Arab Israeli of Palestinian descent, focuses her career on improving life for Arabs in Israel. Through education in schools she created, Arab students learn progressive values to lead social change. She encourages them not to define themselves by the Israel/Palestine conflict.




					www.forbes.com
				




During and after this latest round of fighting between Israel and Hamas, the_ "Palestinian resistance group,"_ classified as a terrorist organization by the United States, there were reports of riots and chaos in mixed cities in Israel like Acre and Haifa — cities where both Jewish and Arab Israelis live. But Tira, a town in the center of Israel, is an all-Arab town. And the teenagers causing a ruckus were Arab teenagers.  

"Those were our kids, those were our people, our younger generation," said Fadila. "I felt the threat from within for the first time in my life."

This type of violence in Israel has skyrocketed in recent years. According to The Times Of Israel, there were 96 homicides in 2020, a 50 percent jump in the murder rate among Arab Israelis in four years. Even though Arab Israelis (most of whom are of Palestinian descent) account for 21% of the population in Israel, they accounted for 71% of the 125 homicides in 2019.


----------



## Mindful

The fact that a large number of Palestinians are desperate to work in Israel is a sign of the failure of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to improve the living conditions of their people despite the massive sums of money they receive from various sources, including the United States, European Union and United Nations.
Instead of holding Hamas responsible for what he called the "tragedy" in the Gaza Strip, al-Amsi and other Palestinians choose to blame Israel.
This view is in keeping with the longstanding habit of the Palestinian leadership to evade their responsibility for thievery and non-governance by blaming Israel for everything.
Many Palestinians and Arabs, however, are no longer buying this nonsense and know exactly who is trying to help and who has not done a thing to end their suffering.
"Thousands of Palestinians, including those with [academic] degrees, are fighting for a job in Israel. I guarantee you that if Israel announced that it wants workers from Algeria, they would cross the Sahara [Desert] on foot to work in Israel to escape the hell they are living in at home." — Hoda Jannat, Syrian journalist and political analyst, Twitter, October 7, 2021.









						Why Palestinians Prefer To Work In Israel
					

The fact that a large number of Palestinians are desperate to work in Israel is a sign of the failure of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to improve the living conditions of their people despite the massive sums of money they receive from various




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I have to agree with you.  The Arab Palestinians are showing their true colors here.  And they are not evolving either morally, politically, diplomatically, or otherwise.



			
				Jerusalem Post said:
			
		

> Adopted in 2002, the Arab Peace Initiative calls for normalizing relations between the Arab world and Israel in exchange for a full withdrawal by Israel to the pre-1967 armistice lines, a “just settlement” of the Palestinian refugee issue based on UN Resolution 194 and the establishment of a Palestinian state with east Jerusalem as its capital.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority has accused the UAE of violating the terms of the Arab Peace Initiative by agreeing to normalize relations with Israel in exchange for nothing.
> *SOURCE*:  Article - By KHALED ABU TOAMEH   SEPTEMBER 6, 2020



While the article is over a year old, it still is accurate in its unproductive demands.  The Arab Palestinians (in my opinion) simply do not grasp the reality and intention of the International Agreements.

The "pre-1967 Armistice Lines were a product generated between Israel and Jordan. And that agreement dissolved in 1994 when the ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) • went into effect.  And the UN Resolution A/RES/194 (III) was never a binding arrangement on any UN Member and it was never made into law.  The essence of A/RES/194 (III) was incorporated into the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) which went into effect in 1976.

​
_*Article 12*_

1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence. ​​2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own. ​​3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions *except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others,* and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant. ​​4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.​
Article 12(3 and 4) of the CCPR essentially rules out nearly the entire Arab Palestinian population. *Only about 3.62% of the Arab Palestinian population (male 48,387/female 56,650) (2020 est.) are over the age of 65.*  And a huge number of Arab Palestinians approve of either The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) or the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).  And both the HAMAS and PLO maintain a policy that there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad → or → Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.



Hollie said:


> "Pallys Complain''
> .....
> The Palestinians are enraged that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are attempting to block their resolution, to be voted on at the upcoming Arab League meeting, that condemns the UAE’s “normalization” of relations with Israel. The story is here.


*(COMMENT)*

Hollie!  I think you are right on the money.  I have to agree that the Arab Palestinians are attempting to obstruct the establishment of Peace rather than start something new in the way of Peace.







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> 4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.


Good point. One's own country is determined by territory not by name. If a territory falls under new rule, the people who normally live there become nationals of the new state.

This means that all of the Palestinians who lived in the territory that is now Israel became Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> The fact that a large number of Palestinians are desperate to work in Israel is a sign of the failure of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to improve the living conditions of their people despite the massive sums of money they receive from various sources, including the United States, European Union and United Nations.
> Instead of holding Hamas responsible for what he called the "tragedy" in the Gaza Strip, al-Amsi and other Palestinians choose to blame Israel.
> This view is in keeping with the longstanding habit of the Palestinian leadership to evade their responsibility for thievery and non-governance by blaming Israel for everything.
> Many Palestinians and Arabs, however, are no longer buying this nonsense and know exactly who is trying to help and who has not done a thing to end their suffering.
> "Thousands of Palestinians, including those with [academic] degrees, are fighting for a job in Israel. I guarantee you that if Israel announced that it wants workers from Algeria, they would cross the Sahara [Desert] on foot to work in Israel to escape the hell they are living in at home." — Hoda Jannat, Syrian journalist and political analyst, Twitter, October 7, 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Palestinians Prefer To Work In Israel
> 
> 
> The fact that a large number of Palestinians are desperate to work in Israel is a sign of the failure of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to improve the living conditions of their people despite the massive sums of money they receive from various
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org


Load of hooey. Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed many areas of Palestinian employment. Israel is one of the few places left to work.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey. Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed many areas of Palestinian employment. Israel is one of the few places left to work.



You want me to be bothered by your mumblings?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey. Israel has stolen, bombed, or bulldozed many areas of Palestinian employment. Israel is one of the few places left to work.



Not enough Hamas war-crime rockets to build?

Terror tunnel digging slowed down?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF*: It is very simple.  The Arab Palestinians do not want peace because they can use the conflict to extort donations from the member nations.



P F Tinmore said:


> This means that all of the Palestinians who lived in the territory that is now Israel became Israelis.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, only 3%+ of the Arab Palestinian population could possibly fall into that category.  And many of them might be ruled out if they supported HAMAS or the PLO.

I'm not entirely sure which direction the Israelis will take on the matter of those issues subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiations.  I'm not sure that it has occupied much Israeli thought in the last four years.  The Arab Palestinians have not shown any inclination to pursue that avenue.  To the Arab Palestinian, the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States merely kindling for Jihad and Armed Struggle which they want the world to think they have some right to as an alternative to the peaceful dispute resolution process.



​




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: It is very simple.  The Arab Palestinians do not want peace because they can use the conflict to extort donations from the member nations.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, only 3%+ of the Arab Palestinian population could possibly fall into that category.  And many of them might be ruled out if they supported HAMAS or the PLO.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure which direction the Israelis will take on the matter of those issues subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiations.  I'm not sure that it has occupied much Israeli thought in the last four years.  The Arab Palestinians have not shown any inclination to pursue that avenue.  To the Arab Palestinian, the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States merely kindling for Jihad and Armed Struggle which they want the world to think they have some right to as an alternative to the peaceful dispute resolution process.
> 
> View attachment 551284​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Why are the Palestinian required to negotiate their rights?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Good point. One's own country is determined by territory not by name. If a territory falls under new rule, the people who normally live there become nationals of the new state.
> 
> This means that all of the Palestinians who lived in the territory that is now Israel became Israelis.


If one's own country is determined by territory, can you identify the country of the "Bible Belt"? How about the "country of Appalachia".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Why are the Palestinian required to negotiate their rights?


The Pally terrorists "right" to kill every Jew and colonize their land is not a negotiable right from the Israeli viewpoint.

Islamic terrorism is not a "right"


----------



## Hollie

I'm thinking I should forward the link below to the PA and Hamas. They're literally swimming in welfare cash while Pally Arabs in Lebanon are living under *Apartheid* conditions. 

Are there no youtube videos addressing Arab-Moslem *Apartheid *in Lebanon?


Those poor, oppressed Pallys. 











						Lebanon: Palestinian refugees complain they are second class citizens - Lebanon
					

News and Press Release in English on Lebanon; published on 2 Oct 2005 by TNH




					reliefweb.int
				




Aid workers say that part of the problem is that the rights of 400,000 Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon are restricted. They are not allowed to own land and they are legally barred from many of the country's best paid jobs.


----------



## Hollie

Not sure why it took a "bipartisan group" so long to understand that the Islamic terrorist franchise trading as Hamas is not comprised of separate entities. 



Bipartisan inquiry urges government to consider listing all of Hamas as terror group 

A Bipartisan inquiry urges government to consider listing all of Hamas as terror group

By Anthony Galloway

October 14, 2021 — 2.57pm

A bipartisan inquiry has urged the federal government to list all of Islamist group Hamas as a terrorist organisation after finding its military wing cannot be separated from its political arm.

The powerful intelligence and security committee said the government, which already lists the military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, as a terrorist entity, should consider expanding the definition to the whole group.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Kids regularly echo what adults are saying, and so too in Palestinian society. Since the establishment of the PA, Palestinians have been told that since “Palestine” stretches “from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River,” Israel has no right to exist in any borders. Therefore, it was only natural that a girl from Gaza recited a poem on official PA TV saying Palestinians are the “owners of the land” “from the sea to the river”:

(full article online)










						“Palestine” erases all of Israel “from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” in poem recited by Gazan girl on PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian kids delegitimize Israel's existence, saying Jaffa and Nazareth are “occupied Palestinian” cities




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The _Ad Kan_ group, dedicated to exposing NGOs and countries that labor to alter Israel’s identity and values, as well as the activities of the Palestinian Authority and the European Union in Area C, on Thursday revealed the deep intrusion of the PA intelligence service into Israel’s Defense Ministry’s Civil Administration in Judea and Samaria.

This week, the PA’s preventive security forces *once again arrested Nidal al-Atari*, a Palestinian Authority citizen who serves as the lands inspector in the Israeli Civil Administration. Al-Atari was interrogated and remains in custody. During his previous detention, he was kept in jail for more than half a year.

*The PA controls additional Arabs within the Civil Administration*

It should be noted that in addition to al-Atari, there are other Palestinian employees in similar positions in the Civil Administration, who are controlled by the PA’s security organizations.

Ad Kan Director-General Gilad Ach concluded his group’s report with the statement:

(full article online)









						Exposé: Palestinian Authority Controlling MoD’s Judea & Samaria Civil Administration
					

The law in the Palestinian Authority prohibits the sale of land to Jews, on penalty of death.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lamis Deek Speech at Brooklyn Protest Demanding NY State AG James Regarding US Settler Organizations​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lamis Deek Speech at Brooklyn Protest Demanding NY State AG James Regarding US Settler Organizations​



Can you cut and paste a youtube video identifying US settler organizations?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Lamis Deek Speech at Brooklyn Protest Demanding NY State AG James Regarding US Settler Organizations​


( What an absolutely hateful, ugly human being Miss Deek is.

Any terrorist is ok with her.

She wants Israel destroyed.  Amazing how many Arabs have been brainwashed to forget that Arabia is their Indigenous home, and not "Palestine".

Does she care about Palestinians in Lebanon or Syria, or elsewhere to help them, boycott those countries?

Of course not.  )






						Canary Mission
					

Canary Mission database was created to document the people and groups that are promoting hatred of the USA, Israel and Jews on college campuses in North America. Every individual and organization has been carefully researched and sourced. If you appreciate the work of Canary Mission, please help...




					canarymission.org


----------



## Hollie

It seems that Israeli defense forces have had reason to be especially vigilant of the islamic terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank. Recent anti gee-had ops seems to show active planning for attacks aimed at Israel. It will be interesting to see if preemptive air strikes are used to erase the threat. 











						Hamas will not hesitate to start another war with Israel - analysis
					

Sunday's IDF operation dismantled a terror initiative that had damage potential similar to the Second Intifada, making Hamas's intention crystal clear.




					www.google.com
				




Hamas will not hesitate to start another war with Israel - analysis
By ANNA AHRONHEIM   SEPTEMBER 28, 2021 22:11


Palestinian members of the Hamas' security forces perform during their graduation ceremony in Gaza City, on September 16, 2021. 340 security personnel completed their education and are ready to work at Palestinian Ministry of Interior and National Security.

Sunday's IDF operation dismantled a terror initiative that had damage potential similar to the Second Intifada, making Hamas's intention crystal clear.

The arrest operation on Sunday targeting a dangerous Hamas cell in the West Bank not only stopped a ticking time bomb but showed just how serious the terrorist group is.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Lamis Deek Speech at Brooklyn Protest Demanding NY State AG James Regarding US Settler Organizations​



Who allowed her to speak?
Where are her male relatives?


----------



## Sixties Fan

On its Facebook page, the organizers feature a video  and photo montage of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh visiting, browsing, and shaking hands of exhibitors, like a head of state.










He should have been arrested, but instead he is treated like a celebrity in Turkey.

(full article online)









						A terrorist leader treated as royalty at Istanbul Book Fair
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> On its Facebook page, the organizers feature a video  and photo montage of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh visiting, browsing, and shaking hands of exhibitors, like a head of state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He should have been arrested, but instead he is treated like a celebrity in Turkey.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A terrorist leader treated as royalty at Istanbul Book Fair
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Not everyone uses our name calling list.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Can you cut and paste a youtube video identifying US settler organizations?


I have several times.

You need to keep up.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I have several times.
> 
> You need to keep up.


As usual, you're unable to support the nonsense claims you make.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Your mindless cutting and pasting leaves you at a disadvantage where facts are concerned.


There are 26 appeals to "Arabism" in the Hamas Charter.


Where does this come from?
*Article 1:* Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.


*Article 5:* The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> As usual, you're unable to support the nonsense claims you make.











						How US donors fund settler activity in East Jerusalem
					

Rights activists call for crackdown on US tax-exempt non-profits behind evictions of Palestinians




					www.thenationalnews.com
				




The impending eviction of Palestinian families from their homes in East Jerusalem's Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood has prompted Palestinian rights activists to call for more scrutiny into how tax-exempt US-based charities – and the private firms that donate to them – are funding Israeli settlement activity that is widely seen to violate international law.

Activists say the evictions are made possible largely thanks to private US funding, with non-profit groups enjoying tax-free status that effectively amounts to a generous subsidy from the federal government.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> How US donors fund settler activity in East Jerusalem
> 
> 
> Rights activists call for crackdown on US tax-exempt non-profits behind evictions of Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenationalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The impending eviction of Palestinian families from their homes in East Jerusalem's Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood has prompted Palestinian rights activists to call for more scrutiny into how tax-exempt US-based charities – and the private firms that donate to them – are funding Israeli settlement activity that is widely seen to violate international law.
> 
> Activists say the evictions are made possible largely thanks to private US funding, with non-profit groups enjoying tax-free status that effectively amounts to a generous subsidy from the federal government.


As expected, you offered nothing to support your specious claim.


----------



## Hollie

I would have thought the Pallys should play the ''divide and conquer'' weasel with Arab states aligning with Israel on business matters. That broadens the Pally universe of ''who else can we blame for our failures".

In the usual case of Pally whining, the selection of one perceived grievance over another will be a matter of already-held grievances that the Pallys have played for decades. When Israel withdrew from Gaza, it was an opportunity for Pallys to implement autonomy within their zones, or, more appropriately as Eric Russell once put it, "the right to go to Hell in their own fashion." That's what they chose and they ran toward their best efforts at failure.











						Leaders complain of inadequate support for Palestinians
					

Islamabad : Pakistani and Palestinian political leaders on Thursday complained of inadequate support for the Palestine cause from the Muslim countries and warned the Muslim leaders against internal...




					www.thenews.com.pk
				




Islamabad : Pakistani and Palestinian political leaders on Thursday complained of inadequate support for the Palestine cause from the Muslim countries and warned the Muslim leaders against internal divisions saying Ummah’s fragmentation served the Zionist agenda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


"Refugees'' living in their own ''country'', the ''country of Pal'istan'' invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne?

Is this to acknowledge that your false claims about a ''country of Pal'istan'' is just a fraud and that there was no invention of any ''country of Pal'istan'' in 1924?

Let them go hungry. Private jets and bank accounts stuffed with cash for Hamas and Fatah islamic terrorist leaders are a part of the suffering required to further the gee-had.

Islam means _submission_ not having a Subway sandwich.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. Pallys are complaining.

Somebody please alert the UN. 










						Israeli court ruling on major holy site angers Palestinians
					

JERUSALEM (AP) — A ruling by a local Israeli court in favor of a Jewish man who prayed quietly at a flashpoint Jerusalem holy site has angered Muslim authorities, who denounced it on Thursday as a …




					www.wjhl.com
				




JERUSALEM (AP) — A ruling by a local Israeli court in favor of a Jewish man who prayed quietly at a flashpoint Jerusalem holy site has angered Muslim authorities, who denounced it on Thursday as a violation of the fragile status quo governing the compound.





The status quo is ''Islam's 9,084th most holy site'' is off limits to Jews.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Food or terror tunnels..........you know the right answer.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Her claim that Palestinians try to distinguish between Jews and Zionists is also a lie. In print, they are more sensitive than they had been years ago because of MEMRI and Palestinian Media Watch, so they are a bit more careful about replacing the word "Jew" with "Zionist," but in the end, they don't ask a Jew they are about to stab if they support settlements or not. 

And according to the ADL, an astounding 97% of Palestinians hold antisemitic views - the highest in the world. Her assertion that Palestinians are only anti-Zionist and not antisemitic is laughable gaslighting.

Finally, the center of today's antisemitism is not white supremacists but the Arab world. White supremacist websites get only a tiny percentage of the readership as mainstream antisemitic Arab media. The Palestinian Al Quds news site published in Britain includes regular Holocaust inversion and references to the Protocols of the Elders of Zionas being obviously real, and it is one of the top 4000 websites in the world - compared to the most notorious neo-Nazi website, Stormfront, which doesn't crack the top 200,000. 

Actual Holocaust denial is still a regular feature of Arab websites, like this one in Al Mayadeen (ranked #10,131 in Alexa.) This top Egyptian newspaper (#1856) headlines an article with the Nazi claim that Kristallnacht was a response to what a Jew did.

Thankfully, this has been slowly changing, in no small part because of the Abraham Accords. Antisemitism in the UAE and Morocco has been tempered with articles that are sympathetic to Jews and Judaism. Of course, the peace agreements that are prompting this major pushback against antisemitism in the Arab world is opposed by Noura Erakat.

Noura Erakat is not stupid nor is she ignorant. She knows everything I have written is true. Her entire goal is to spread false propaganda. It must be exposed - every time. 

(full article online)









						Sorry, Noura Erakat, but you cannot deny Arab and Palestinian antisemitism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The problem with Germany's dumping of welfare money on the islamic terrorists is a problem shared by a host of western nations. The Pallys announce their intentions to provide for and enable the gee-had killers they create. For some reason, unknown to me, Westerners continue to enable islamic terrorists.













						The other legacy of Angela Merkel - a history of allocations to Palestinian terror during Angela Merkel's reign as German chancellor - Israel Behind the News
					

As the Palestinian news portal WAFA announced on September 15, Germany recently agreed to support the Palestinian Authority with 100 million euros, which will be paid out over the next two years.1 Neither the German representative office in Ramallah nor the Federal Foreign Office nor the BMZ...




					israelbehindthenews.com
				




Aid within the framework of German development cooperation is characterized by insufficient transparency. For years, German tax money has been allocated to worldwide projects and human aid without any monitoring.

The disbursements of aid funds and the Palestinian territories have been extremely problematic for years. Among other things, the so-called terror rents are made possible and terrorist organizations are co-financed.


----------



## Hollie

"Smilin'' Joe Biden rewarding Islamic terrorists. It's a familiar pattern. 












						Biden Ignores Palestinian Support For Terrorists
					

Safe to assume that the Palestinian state the Biden administration is hoping to establish alongside Israel will be controlled by Iranian-backed terrorists such as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad..




					www.jewishpress.com
				








Despite the decision by the Biden administration to resume financial aid to the Palestinians and work toward reviving the “peace process” with Israel, most Palestinians continue to support Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist group that does not recognize Israel’s right to exist.

The Biden administration’s talk about achieving a “two-state solution” does not seem to impress many Palestinians. They believe, according to a recent public opinion poll, that this solution is no longer practical or feasible. These Palestinians, the poll found, prefer to wage an “armed struggle” against Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Hate the kuffar, love the kuffar cash.

Hamas has a history of thievery surrounding the boatloads of cash that pour into their Islamic terrorist enclave and that welfare money us used to kill Jews.

Killing Jews as religious practice is a basic message of Hamas, which believes that the gee-had waged against Jews—not only Israelis—and eventual extermination of Jews at the hands of Moslems is intrinsic to Islamism.












						Qatar Restarts Cash Payments to Gazans, Using UN Credit Cards
					

Israel must approve individuals receiving aid to ensure that money goes to the poor and not to Hamas.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




October 15, 2021 




Gazans receive financial aid from Qatar at a post office in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip on Oct. 6, 2020.

Gaza citizens in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip began receiving payments on Thursday after Israel agreed to a new distribution system that includes the involvement of the United Nations.

Qatari envoy Mohammed al-Emadi said that payments of $100 would be made to “95,000 needy families,” reported _AFP_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

There may be some trouble brewing amongst the antagonistic tribes in Fatah’istan.

I suppose it’s best to let these fine folks work out their differences like the adults they are… with shootings and perhaps some car bombs.











						Fatah leader challenges Palestinian Authority over control of Hebron
					

Emad Khurwat, a senior Fatah official in Hebron, threatened to use force to prevent PA officials from entering the city, resulting in a crisis.




					m.jpost.com
				





Fatah leaders in Hebron have openly challenged the Palestinian Authority leadership, including PA President Mahmoud Abbas, in what appears to be one of the worst crises within the dominant Fatah faction in recent years.

The latest crisis erupted after Emad Khurwat, a senior Fatah official in Hebron, threatened to use force to prevent PA officials from entering the city.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

SEND A SOLIDARITY GREETING IN THE COMMENT, SO JANNA KNOWS SHE IS NOT ALONE IN HER BATTLE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







15-year-old Janna Jihad is part of this year's Write For Liv campaign, where Amnesty supporters worldwide write thousands of solidarity greetings to people whose rights have been violated.
Janna loves to dance and play guitar and then she just wants a normal childhood. But her life is characterized by systematic discrimination as a Palestinian in the Israeli occupied West Bank. When Janna was seven, the Israeli military killed her uncle and she used her mother's phone to document and expose what her village was exposed to. Since then she has been crying out for the injustices - but it has a price. Janna is experiencing harassment and receives death threats for her fight for Palestinian rights. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Show Janna she doesn't work in vain Write her a greeting in the comments section and we'll make sure you send your greetings together with this year's Write For Liv letters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Read more about the campaign here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


https://fal.cn/3j3Pt

  ·   ·


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


I suppose Pallywood needs useful idiots.


----------



## Hollie

Curious that Pallys and their supporters use their “religion” to further the hate that consumes them. 

2021
Antisemitic Chants At Hizb Ut-Tahrir Australia Protest In Support Of Palestinians: Oh Allah, Give Us The Necks Of The Jews, The Evildoers! Seize Them With The Grip Of The Almighty!


----------



## Hollie

Why does the western world continue to throw welfare money at Pally psychopaths/ KKK wannabes?


----------



## Hollie

​
With ''Shirley Temper'' getting well past her pre-teen years and outliving her usefulness for the gee-had, the Pallys may have found a fresh young female replacement. This one has the obligatory fair skin and ''boofed'' hair. 

Young females have always been a commodity for use and abuse in Islamism. At 12 years old, "Shirley Jr.'' may have a few good years as a propaganda tool but Islamism will eventually grind her into obsolescence. 
​​​​“Palestine” erases all of Israel “from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” in poem recited by Gazan girl on PA TV​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 14, 2021

*Palestinian kids delegitimize Israel's existence, saying Jaffa and Nazareth are “occupied Palestinian” cities*​
Kids regularly echo what adults are saying, and so too in Palestinian society. Since the establishment of the PA, Palestinians have been told that since “Palestine” stretches “from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River,” Israel has no right to exist in any borders. Therefore, it was only natural that a girl from Gaza recited a poem on official PA TV saying Palestinians are the “owners of the land” “from the sea to the river”:









> *Hidaya, 12-year-old girl from Gaza: *“Even if you destroy our homes above our heads


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Gee whiz. Hamas is the world's richest Islamic terrorist organization. Many in Gaza still don't have indoor plumbing. 

You approve of old women being forced to carry their plumbing with them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> ​
> With ''Shirley Temper'' getting well past her pre-teen years and outliving her usefulness for the gee-had, the Pallys may have found a fresh young female replacement. This one has the obligatory fair skin and ''boofed'' hair.
> 
> Young females have always been a commodity for use and abuse in Islamism. At 12 years old, "Shirley Jr.'' may have a few good years as a propaganda tool but Islamism will eventually grind her into obsolescence.
> ​​​​“Palestine” erases all of Israel “from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” in poem recited by Gazan girl on PA TV​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 14, 2021
> 
> *Palestinian kids delegitimize Israel's existence, saying Jaffa and Nazareth are “occupied Palestinian” cities*​
> Kids regularly echo what adults are saying, and so too in Palestinian society. Since the establishment of the PA, Palestinians have been told that since “Palestine” stretches “from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River,” Israel has no right to exist in any borders. Therefore, it was only natural that a girl from Gaza recited a poem on official PA TV saying Palestinians are the “owners of the land” “from the sea to the river”:





Hollie said:


> With ''Shirley Temper'' getting well past her pre-teen years and outliving her usefulness for the gee-had,


Ahed Tamimi is currently in collage studying law.


Hollie said:


> *Palestinian kids delegitimize Israel's existence, saying Jaffa and Nazareth are “occupied Palestinian” cities*


They only say that because it is true.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi is currently in collage studying law.
> 
> They only say that because it is true.



So..... yes. Islamism has a 1,400 year history of abuse targeting young females.


----------



## Hollie

It's ''righteous''..... dude.​Generation after generation of breeding sociopaths. The Pally sociopaths have a category of mentally ill they call ''martyrs" They have been conscripted as war materiel by one of several islamic terrorist franchises which hopes to reap political capital, at least, from their deaths under retaliatory fire from Israel. Who is it that has places women and children in the line of fire? Not the Israelis, who have done all that any combatant could do to warn them away from the danger zone.​

​​​Fatah glorifies 2 terrorists who murdered 3 Israelis: “Eternity and praise to our righteous Martyrs”​Official Fatah Facebook page  | Dec 13, 2018


----------



## Hollie

There is a certain irony in Facebook banning criticism of leftist ideologues but allowing Islamic terrorists free reign. The islamic terrorists’ blatant, in-your-face incitement is exactly the kind of calm, measured, and mature tack they have used for decades. Faced with provocation from frothing, islamic terrorist sociopaths urging the killing of Israeli’s, westerners wring their hands over how much welfare money they can contribute to Islamic retrogrades. 










						Denying incitement, Fatah Facebook page chief claims incendiary posts ‘symbolic’
					

Israeli critics dismiss Munir al-Jaghoub's arguments as 'ludicrous'; Fatah officials suggest page does not reflect party's official positions




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





RAMALLAH, West Bank — A knife with a Palestinian flag on its handle stabbing a religious Jew. Praise for a Palestinian terrorist partially responsible for the deaths of 38 Israelis, including children. A claim that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party has killed thousands of Israelis. These are among the incendiary posts in recent years on a Facebook page connected to the PA leader’s Fatah faction.

The Israeli government and independent watchdogs have regularly denounced the Facebook page, called “The Palestinian National Liberation Movement ‘Fatah’/ The Official Page,” and international news outlets, including the New York Times and CNN, have critically covered some of its posts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi is currently in collage studying law.
> 
> They only say that because it is true.


It must be difficult being a female propaganda agent for the ummah. They have value when they're pre-teen. It's when they hit that wall at their teen years and they become just another throw away piece of luggage. .


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P T Tinmore said:




Yes. Repeated Arab-Moslem failures are funny.


----------



## Hollie

Pallys complain again, still, as usual. 

They're watching a perceived status as the coddled darlings of the Arab world evaporate in front of them. 







__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				




TUE OCT 20, 2020 / 3:18 PM EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A group of United Arab Emirates officials became the first Gulf Arab delegation ever to visit in Israel on Tuesday, cementing a normalisation deal in an occasion that Israel and U.S. officials described as historic but the Palestinians called "shameful".


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied. 

Successful operations by the IDF appear to have interrupted the potential for future islamic terrorist attacks. 










						Large explosives cache belonging to Hamas cell said found in West Bank town
					

A night after 3 gunmen were killed, Israeli troops again operate in Bidu using new intel gained from arrested operatives suspected of planning terror attacks




					www.google.com
				




Israeli security forces early Monday carried out further operations in the West Bank to disrupt alleged plans for major terror attacks, using new intel gained following the arrest of some 20 suspected members of a Hamas cell.

It was the second straight night Israeli troops operated in the town of Bidu, near Jerusalem. Three Hamas gunmen were killed in a shootout with soldiers the night before.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In truth, the burgeoning Palestinian cinema scene has been developing for some years now, and is a key tool in Palestinian ‘soft power’ through which to influence the hearts and minds of people around the world. The relentless drab scenery and stories of alleged injustice meted out by an uncaring, unforgiving Israeli military machine are staples of Palestinian films and serve to influence the way people perceive the relationship between Israel and the Palestinians specifically, as well as the Arab-Israeli conflict in general.

Compare this to Israeli television. Many of the films and television series made in Israel have very little to do with the Palestinians or indeed the Arab world at all. Shtisel, aired by Netflix and subject of positive reviews around the world, focuses on an ultra-Orthodox Jewish family in Jerusalem and barely mentions any non-Jewish characters. 

While Israeli films and television series often do relate to the conflicts Israel deals with, their scope is far more extensive than the simple victimhood narrative that is the hallmark of Palestinian film. Instead, Israeli television wrestles with the ethical dilemmas facing Israeli soldiers and the Israeli public, and attempts to humanize the people on both sides, most notably in _Our Boys_ (2019), based on the kidnapping and murders of young Israeli teenagers in the summer of 2014 that led to a serious escalation between Israel and Hamas.

To a lesser extent, this is also true of Netflix’s global hit show _Fauda_, which shows numerous Palestinian characters at home engaged in day-to-day life, as well as a romance between a Palestinian woman and an Israeli man. In some cases, Israeli television and film productions are highly critical of the Israeli government and military, and sympathetic to the Palestinians.

For example, the recent Israeli film _Let There Be Morning _(2021), featuring a Palestinian cast, depicts a Palestinian accountant whose path home is blocked by an Israeli checkpoint.

Overwhelmingly, Palestinian film and television, however, simply do not display anywhere near such compassion for the people on the ‘other side’ of the conflict.

Taken in comparison with the type of jingoistic fare often seen on Palestinian television, which depicts Palestinians as crushing scared Jews, and often features military parades and Islamic preaching, a stark contradistinction emerges. These themes are entirely absent from the films made for Western consumption.

In fact, films screened internationally are not necessarily shown to domestic audiences. Officially, all film projects in Gaza must be approved by Hamas’ Culture Ministry before they can be screened in public.

Furthermore, independent filmmakers have claimed that the Hamas-ruled Culture Ministry cracks down on content beyond the confines of edicts from the Islamist terror group. In 2010, for example, Hamas banned local showings of the short film _Something Sweet_, which was submitted at the Cannes Film Festival, due to a four-second scene where a woman is shown with her hair uncovered. In other instances, scenes have been censored or removed entirely.

(full article online)









						How Media Reviews Enable Cinema to be Used as Vehicle for Palestinian Propaganda | Honest Reporting
					

When Linda Sarsour recently tweeted about Palestinian films and documentaries arriving on Netflix, her choice of words was telling: "Educate yourself,"




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

order Police officers arrested a Palestinian woman armed with a knife as she approached an Israeli settlement outside Jerusalem on Monday, police said.

The suspect, whom Palestinian media identified as Samah Bakrawi, 37, from the village of Bayt Surik, was spotted by Israeli soldiers monitoring security cameras as she walked up to a locked gate into the Har Adar settlement.

Israeli security forces have in the past noted a phenomenon of Palestinians attempting so-called “suicide by cop” by acting in a suspicious or threatening manner with the hope that they will be shot dead by Israeli troops.

(full article online)









						Palestinian woman arrested while approaching settlement armed with a knife
					

Suspect spotted by soldiers walking up to Har Adar, outside Jerusalem; border guards arrest her, without gunfire, as she surrenders weapon




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

Has everyone not received the email about the ''state of Pallyland'' being invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in1924?











						Israeli PM: 'A Palestinian State Would Mean a Terror State'
					

Bennett said on Sunday that 'a Palestinian state would mean a terror state,' during a joint press conference with Angela Merkel.




					www.palestinechronicle.com
				




Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said on Sunday that “a Palestinian state would mean a terror state,” during a joint press conference with Germany’s outgoing chancellor Angela Merkel, according to Israeli media.


----------



## Hollie

In case you missed Pally "culture week", you missed the lauding of the sociopathic killers they breed. 

It's a "cultural" thing. 











						PA: Palestinians murdering Israelis is Palestinian culture | PMW Analysis
					

PA honors murderers of 182 Israelis to launch “Bethlehem: Capital of Arab Culture Week”




					www.palwatch.org
				




PA: Palestinians murdering Israelis is Palestinian culture
Itamar Marcus  | Oct 19, 2021
PA honors murderers of 184 Israelis to launch “Bethlehem: Capital of Arab Culture Week”


While people around the world see the arts, sports, and music as expressions of culture that could be highlighted during a “culture week,” the Palestinian Authority chose the murder of Israelis as its expression of Palestinian culture with which to launch its “Arab Culture Week.”

As “the start of the activities of the Bethlehem: Capital of Arab Culture 2020-2021 week,” the PA Ministry of Culture and the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs set up an exhibit featuring pictures and names of numerous terrorist prisoners who murdered at least 46 Israelis, and terrorist “Martyrs” responsible for the deaths of at least 136.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas member's son helped write UK Labour motion against Israel - report
					

General secretary of the Arab Labour Group Omar Mofeed — Allegedly the son of Hamas official Dr. Mufid Al-Mokhalalati — was a lead drafter of a Labour conference motion on Israel.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Terrorist from Hebron Arrested by Police While Broadcasting Live from Facebook
					

Israel will continue to go after the enemies that try to kill the Jewish people.




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel getting more desperate every day.



Does that even mean anything specific,
would you prefer to deal with a desperate Israel?


----------



## Hollie

One of the many Pally islamic terrorist franchises is making the usual threats that Jew killing is their sole reason for existence. I suppose with this summer's graduating class of islamo-bots from the Hamas summer gee-had camp, they have a fresh supply of dead martyrs walking. 

A truly degenerate, retrograde cluster of people 












						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					www.palwatch.org
				




Support PMW
On anniversary of its murder of Israeli minister, PFLP vows to continue terror
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 20, 2021
PLO-member PFLP celebrates its assassination of Israeli Minister of Tourism Rehavam Ze’evi and promises to “continue the resistance” until destroying Israel entirely

“Our rifles are clean and pure against the enemy” says PLO member, praising arch-terrorists

“The best example” of PFLP “influence and presence” was the murder of 17-year-old Rina Shnerb

Praising its assassination of Israeli Minister of Tourism Rehavam Ze’evi 20 years ago as a “quality operation,” the terror organization the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) - which is a member of the PLO – celebrated its “blow” to Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

In that platform, it says, "The Palestinian people’s right to practice armed resistance against the military occupation of their land remains a constant right confirmed by international law and international legality."

It is worth mentioning that Palestinians even admit that Palestinian culture is one of admiring violence and terror. Only last week, there was the opening of the "Bethlehem: Capital of Arab Culture 2020-2021 week." Here is one of the examples of Palestinian culture:




Palestinian Media Watch tracked down the pictures of the people portrayed on the walls, and calculated that they were responsible for the murder of 184 Israelis. The heroes included the organizers of the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre as well as numerous suicide bombings.

Terrorism is Palestinian culture.

 At the end of Abbas' address, he thanked the head of the PA Civil Affairs Authority, which led to obtaining approvals for 4000 Palestinians to receive identification papers and passports. Those approvals were given by Israel, not by any Palestinian institution. 

If Abbas would thank Israel for the things it has been doing to make life easier for Palestinians (like approving 4G Internet), perhaps that would be more effective than the threats and embracing terror that have led nowhere for decades.

(full article online)









						Fatah, which supports violence in its platform, threatens Israel again, as Palestinians celebrate terrorists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority, which is largely funded by American and European taxpayers' money, is imprisoning Palestinians for even _trying_ to engage in real estate deals with Jews.
The Palestinian public seems generally supportive of the death sentences and extrajudicial killings of suspected "land dealers" and informants. Even Palestinian human rights organizations appear to be extremely careful when they mention such issues.
As far as Hamas and many Palestinians are concerned, peace with Israel or any form of "collaboration" with the "Zionist enemy" is an act of treason punishable by death.
Mahmoud Abbas is already facing accusations of being a traitor because of the security coordination between the PA security forces and the Israeli authorities in the West Bank.
As long as the PA and Hamas punish Palestinians who work with Israel or are willing to sell real estate to Israeli Jews -- frequently by issuing sentences of hard labor or death -- the hope of reviving the "peace process" is, unfortunately, a pitiful waste of time and effort.
The verdicts passed against the "land dealers" in the West Bank and the suspected "collaborators" in the Gaza Strip show that Palestinians remain as far as ever from accepting Israel, let alone making peace with it.
The verdicts are yet more proof of how Palestinian leaders continue to radicalize their people against Israel -- to the point that no Palestinian who wishes to stay alive would ever claim that he or she seeks to make peace with Israel or recognize all of the land as anything other than totally Palestinian in every way.

(full article online)









						Why Palestinians Cannot Make Peace with Israel
					

The Palestinian Authority, which is largely funded by American and European taxpayers' money, is imprisoning Palestinians for even trying to engage in real estate deals with Jews. The Palestinian public seems generally supportive of the death sentences




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

• The Times of Israel (July 29, 2021) ran a headline that said “Hamas warns terror groups may resume rocket fire unless Qatari funds enter Gaza.” This in addition to other threats of fire balloons and violent demonstrations at the border unless monetary demands of Hamas are met.

• Under the headline “Hamas demands more money from Qatar,” an Israel Hayom article of August 21, 2020 stated: Hamas is demanding that Qatar increase the amount of money it sends to the Gaza Strip each month to $40 million, to allow it to move ahead with a number of civilian projects in Gaza.

Notice the use of the words “or else,” “demands” and “ultimatum” versus “request.”

Notice the threats that accompany the “demands.”

Chutzpah? Extortion? Both?

These examples meet the criminal definition of extortion. A word that has been missing in the media when reporting on the topic of Qatari funds being sent to Gaza.

According to the Guide to Financial Crime and Fraud of Investopedia.com: “Extortion is the wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or intimidation to gain money or property from an individual or entity. Extortion generally involves a threat being made to the victim’s person or property, or to their family or friends. While the threat of violence or property damage is commonplace in extortion, it can also involve reputational harm or unfavorable government action.”

A report from Interpol, the inter-governmental police organization, dated September 26, 2018, called “Organized crime underpins major conflicts and terrorism globally” states: “Organized crime is increasingly undermining peace, security and development,” said Mark Shaw, director of the Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime. “It has become a global phenomenon, represented in a confluence of conflicts from Africa to the Middle East and the Americas, and showing a distinct linkage to the response to international terrorism.”

It is important to remember that Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005 leaving behind an infrastructure of agricultural greenhouses that were then immediately looted and destroyed by Gazans, thus even when handed to them, there was practically no industrial base in which to build a new country (NBC News, September 14, 2005). And, the PA and Hamas to this day do nothing in order to “nation build” but continue to demand donations from outsiders.

In his September 15, 2021 Jerusalem Post article “Misuse of Gaza aid is likely to continue,” Eitan Fischberger correctly observes “… that the Palestinian Authority had withdrawn from a deal to transfer Qatari aid to its employees in the Gaza Strip… the retraction stems from the PA’s refusal to funnel the funds through banks belonging to the Palestinian Monetary Authority out of fear that this would expose it to lawsuits and allegations of supporting terrorism…

“This is a tacit admission by the PA that foreign aid it receives is susceptible to mismanagement and diversion to terrorism. This development raises questions about assurances by the international community and NGOs that their aid to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza will not be used to facilitate terrorism.”

(full article online)









						Hamas is an international criminal syndicate
					

There is a word that has been missing in the media when reporting on the topic of Qatari funds being sent to Gaza: Extortion.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

Coming as a surprise to no one, the Pally school curriculum is little more than indoctrination for hate / self-hate thrust upon children. 

Teaching about the heroics of Jew killing and rewards of virgins in the afterlife to sexually repressed boys has been a staple of Arab-Moslem'ism since the 7th century. 











						Opinion | Palestinian textbooks are (still) teaching students to hate Jews
					

The latest edition of Palestinian textbooks do teach about human rights and dignity for all, except when it comes to Israelis.




					forward.com
				




European policymakers have researched the violence and antisemitism within Palestinian textbooks for years, passing legislation in 2018, 2020 and 2021 condemning it. They hoped for change, only to be blithely ignored by the Palestinian Authority


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Coming as a surprise to no one, the Pally school curriculum is little more than indoctrination for hate / self-hate thrust upon children.
> 
> Teaching about the heroics of Jew killing and rewards of virgins in the afterlife to sexually repressed boys has been a staple of Arab-Moslem'ism since the 7th century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion | Palestinian textbooks are (still) teaching students to hate Jews
> 
> 
> The latest edition of Palestinian textbooks do teach about human rights and dignity for all, except when it comes to Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forward.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European policymakers have researched the violence and antisemitism within Palestinian textbooks for years, passing legislation in 2018, 2020 and 2021 condemning it. They hoped for change, only to be blithely ignored by the Palestinian Authority





Hollie said:


> They hoped for change, only to be blithely ignored by the Palestinian Authority


The Palestinians do not want to teach Israeli propaganda.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians do not want to teach Israeli propaganda.


They are doing just fine with the "Kill the Jews" Arab, Muslim, Palestinian Propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians do not want to teach Israeli propaganda.


Your comment makes no sense.

Maybe stick to cutting and pasting youtube videos.


----------



## Hollie

Despite the phony claims that the Arabs-Moslems parading as "Palestinians" want statehood, the islamic terrorist franchises know their welfare fraud scheme survives by pleading as the aggrieved victim. Similarly, they know "statehood" means that the first islamic terrorist attack launched from the "state of Pally’land" would give Israel every right to defend it's citizens (to include devastating retaliatory strikes), under the protection of international law. 

A largely lawless, rogue collection of islamic terrorist / criminal syndicates has made financial fortunes for the islamic terrorist franchises. They have an interest in maintaining the status quo. 









						Hamas is an international criminal syndicate
					

There is a word that has been missing in the media when reporting on the topic of Qatari funds being sent to Gaza: Extortion.




					www.google.com
				




Hamas is an international crime syndicate, and its official foreign policy is extortion - opinion

There is a word that has been missing in the media when reporting on the topic of Qatari funds being sent to Gaza: Extortion.

‘Hamas issues ultimatum to Israel: Give us $8 million by Tuesday,” screams a 17 October 2021 headline from the Arabic al-Ain newspaper. The money, Hamas says, is to pay its members’ salaries. And this is only one of several demands issued.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli media is now reporting that the Avigal family has decided to move away from Sderot  to live in a moshav near Kiryat Malachi.  His mother wrote a letter to her late child about the move, and how the family has kept all of his toys.

The disgusting site Palestine Today is bragging about the Avigal family move.

The Islamic Jihad-linked website says that "the family of settler Ido Avigal, who was killed by shrapnel from the resistance's rockets in the "Sword of Jerusalem" battle, will flee Thursday from the Sderot settlement adjacent to the Gaza Strip."

The typically lying site says "In the first moments of the battle, the resistance managed to target a military enclaveon the borders of the Gaza Strip, which led to the injury and killing of the soldiers in it. "

The five year old Ido is considered one of the "soldiers" in the Sderot "settlement."

In the end, the bragging betrays the most pathetic thing about Palestinians as reported in their own media. They act like toddlers who throw tantrums, screaming to be noticed. When they get any attention whatsoever, they are happy. They must spin the fact that an Israeli family whose child they killed is moving into a narrative where they forced a Zionist family to flee from their might - of killing a five year old. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian media proud that the family of a child killed by a Gaza rocket is moving
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

> In 2017, the PA spent huge sums on shell companies and projects, including a non-existent airline, and instead of developing welfare programs to distribute social services or development aid funds to Palestinians, the PA allocates funds to pay salaries to security officers and government officials.
> 
> Senior PA officials establish foundations, non-governmental bodies, and shell companies to attract additional funds from aid programs, yet donors have mostly turned a blind eye to the PA's blatant corruption and mismanagement of development funds.
> 
> For example, even when investigators reported that PA officials embezzled EU aid funds, the EU did not stop providing assistance. Thus, despite providing more than $15 billion in development aid to the Palestinians over the past 30 years, nothing has changed on the issue of reducing poverty or delivering sustainable improvements in the quality of life for Palestinians.
> 
> It is not just that PA corruption undermines aid effectiveness. Perhaps the biggest problem is that the flow of development aid contributes to and supports the PA's culture of widespread corruption. And the more funding the PA can receive, the more powerful it becomes. It has increased its capacity to embezzle funds, extortion and bribery, and worse, the consequences of corruption are not just economic: in Palestine, corruption contributes to violence against Palestinians.
> 
> The only way out of this cycle is for donors to call for the cessation of unrestricted development aid to Palestinian government institutions, which have proven time and time again to be too weak and who treat aid as an opportunity for corruption.
> 
> Donors, including the United States and the European Union, should set a timetable for the expiry of existing aid packages and should make clear that no further aid will be provided until the Palestinian Authority provides strong evidence of a reduction in corruption and assurances that the development aid funds they have received is used in development projects and its objectives.
> 
> Some may be concerned that cutting direct development aid to the Palestinian Authority will lead to its collapse, and thus create a vacuum that Hamas may exploit, but whoever claims this ignores the bigger picture, that the corruption rooted in the Authority is what enabled Hamas from gaining power in the first place.
> 
> More than empowering corrupt institutions, the continued flow of unrestricted funds to the PA will do more than support and perpetuate the PA’s systemic corruption.



Arab nations have curtailed their monetary support of the PA partially because of corruption. Sweden, one of the most staunch national supporters of the Palestinian Authority, has warned that they might do the same. 

(full article online)









						Report: The Palestinian Authority stole billions of aid from the EU from 2008-2012
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Telling us what we already know, the Pally enclaves are a breeding ground for delivering generation after generation of sociopaths.












						Comprehensive report reveals endemic hate education in Palestinian schools
					

Palestinian children are being primed for "a continuous and long-range confrontation against the State of Israel," the report found.




					m.jpost.com
				





Comprehensive report reveals endemic hate education in Palestinian schools​By DONNA RACHEL EDMUNDS 
JUNE 20, 2020 17:39





Palestinian children wearing Hamas headbands take part in a rally against U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, in the Gaza Strip
(photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
​Palestinian children are being primed for "a continuous and long-range confrontation against the State of Israel," the report found.​
Palestinian children are being systematically taught to hate Jewish Israelis and violently resist a Jewish presence in Israel, a comprehensive review of Palestinian school textbooks has found


Futher in the article:
_The narrative given within the context of Palestinian school texts is one of preparing the next generation “for a continuous and long-range confrontation against the State of Israel in order to achieve the final goal, which is the establishment of the State of Palestine that will stretch on the entire territory of the Land of Israel,” the report further notes, adding: “There is no trace in the schoolbooks of the argumentation disseminated by the Palestinian Authority in the international arena that the Palestinian Authority is committed to ‘a just peace’ based on the two-state solution.”_



So no. “Peace Partners” is the wrong idea when dealing with violent, retrograde people.


----------



## Hollie

The really remarkable part is that in spite of the EU knowing with certainty that their welfare money to the Pallys bolsters Islamic terrorists, they keep throwing that welfare money. 












						Parliamentary question | Palestinian support for terrorism | P-001193/2020 | European Parliament
					

Priority question for written answer P-001193/2020 to the Vice-President of the Commission / High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Rule 138 Charlie Weimers (ECR), Bert-Jan Ruissen (ECR)




					www.europarl.europa.eu
				




In December 2019, a Palestinian public opinion poll (1) noted that a majority of the Palestinians oppose a two-state solution. The same poll also noted that a large majority supported an armed struggle against Israel. That same month, it was also reported (2) that over 130 Palestinian NGOs refused to abide by EU funding terms, which state that no EU assistance or funding may be transferred to terrorist groups or entities.


----------



## Hollie

This is _Genocide_™ 

Somebody please alert the UN.










						Israel to issue 16,000 more work permits for Palestinians - France 24
					

Israel to issue 16,000 more work permits for Palestinians




					www.france24.com
				




Israel announced Wednesday it is to issue 16,000 more permits for Palestinians from the occupied West Bank to work in its construction and hotel industries, taking the total to over 100,000.

"Israel intends to increase by 15,000 workers the quota of Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria (the southern and northern West Bank) working in the field of construction," the Israeli military body responsible for civil affairs in the occupied Palestinian territories, COGAT, said.


----------



## Hollie

It appears there is some movement in Australia to (rightly so), list Hamas as a terrorist organization. 













						Bipartisan inquiry urges government to consider listing all of Hamas as terror group
					

The move could have ramifications for Australia’s consular presence in the Gaza Strip, with Hamas in charge of the self-governing Palestinian territory.




					www.smh.com.au
				




A bipartisan inquiry has urged the federal government to list all of Islamist group Hamas as a terrorist organisation after finding its military wing cannot be separated from its political arm.

The powerful intelligence and security committee said the government, which already lists the military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, as a terrorist entity, should consider expanding the definition to the whole group.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel announced Wednesday it is to issue 16,000 more permits for Palestinians from the occupied West Bank to work in its construction and hotel industries, taking the total to over 100,000.


Always on the bottom rung of the employment ladder.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Always on the bottom rung of the employment ladder.


The Hamas Hitler Youth style summer camps churn out sociopaths intent on killing Jews.  Not a tremendously marketable, sought after skill by Israelis.

Take your welfare money and whine to your bosses in Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

"Fitness training''. 

A novel way to describe the sumner gee-had camps run by the Islamic terrorists. 

Get'em young and train them to hate thenselves and their miserable lives. The Pallys have found that works equally well with young females. Islamism has this ''thing'' with young females. 












						Vice News Downplays Hamas Terror Tunnels, Contends Gaza Child Soldiers Receive ‘Fitness Training’
					

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. In a report on May’s Hamas-initiated war against …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Vice News Downplays Hamas Terror Tunnels, Contends Gaza Child Soldiers Receive ‘Fitness Training’​​



Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter.
In a report on May’s Hamas-initiated war against Israel, _Vice News_ parroted terrorist propaganda, claiming that the IDF’s defensive actions somehow breached international law.
In _Vice’s _video, correspondent Isobel Yeung repeatedly charged Israel with targeting Gazans during a May 14 operation to destroy Hamas’ network of terrorist attack tunnels.
There’s just one problem: There’s not a shred of evidence that Israel purposely struck civilian infrastructure, even as Hamas built military sites in populated areas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Hamas Hitler Youth style summer camps churn out sociopaths intent on killing Jews.  Not a tremendously marketable, sought after skill by Israelis.
> 
> Take your welfare money and whine to your bosses in Hamas.


Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


Awww, the Hamas groupie is suffering from hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

A Gaza protectorate?

The Shia Iranians already have this franchise. 












						Needed: A Gaza Protectorate to Replace Hamas
					

Smoke rises following an Israeli air strike in the Gaza Strip, Aug. 28, 2020. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Shana. JNS.org …




					www.algemeiner.com
				









Smoke rises following an Israeli air strike in the Gaza Strip, Aug. 28, 2020. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Shana.

_JNS.org_ – The horrible history of terror committed by Hamas brings into focus the tragic lack of accountable leadership that has befallen the people of Gaza. Since taking control of the enclave in 2007, the US State Department-designated Foreign Terror Organization (FTO) has proven wholly incapable of serving as a positive governing body for Gazans


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> "Fitness training''.
> 
> A novel way to describe the sumner gee-had camps run by the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Get'em young and train them to hate thenselves and their miserable lives. The Pallys have found that works equally well with young females. Islamism has this ''thing'' with young females.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vice News Downplays Hamas Terror Tunnels, Contends Gaza Child Soldiers Receive ‘Fitness Training’
> 
> 
> Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. In a report on May’s Hamas-initiated war against …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vice News Downplays Hamas Terror Tunnels, Contends Gaza Child Soldiers Receive ‘Fitness Training’​​
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter.
> In a report on May’s Hamas-initiated war against Israel, _Vice News_ parroted terrorist propaganda, claiming that the IDF’s defensive actions somehow breached international law.
> In _Vice’s _video, correspondent Isobel Yeung repeatedly charged Israel with targeting Gazans during a May 14 operation to destroy Hamas’ network of terrorist attack tunnels.
> There’s just one problem: There’s not a shred of evidence that Israel purposely struck civilian infrastructure, even as Hamas built military sites in populated areas.


*Terror Tunnels Is an Israeli propaganda term. Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.*​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Terror Tunnels Is an Israeli propaganda term. Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.*​


^^^^ the same person who presses ''the Treaty of Lausanne invented the Magical Kingdom of Pally'land", _Where Dreams Come True™, _conspiracy theory nonsense


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Link?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Link?


Arab supremacists burn houses of political opponents,
and execute their own to blame it on Jews.

_"Human rights"_ NGO's...


----------



## Hollie

Within Arab-Moslem'ism there is the precept of _waqf, _that land conquerd or occupied by Islam is Islamic, forever, until the Day of Resurrection, as a part of the islamic ummah. This is the status of land called 'Palestine' in Islamic Sharia and it is similar to all lands conquered or occupied by islam. 

The religious component of the Islamic rage directed at Israel derives from the islamic ideology of _waqf_.  The humiliation inflicted on Arab armies in the wars of aggression initiated by the Arabs-Moslems beginning with the wars of 1947-48 that first established Israel as a nation-state upends 1,400 years of Islamic ideology.

They're still raging.











						Israel’s destruction is inevitable - a repeating PA promise | PMW Analysis
					

Israel “will pass… Jerusalem will be liberated, return to Islam… The evil will pass,” says PA Mufti




					palwatch.org
				




Israel’s destruction is inevitable - a repeating PA promise​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 22, 2021


​
*Israel “will pass… Jerusalem will be liberated, return to Islam… The evil will pass,” says PA Mufti*​
*Jewish immigration to “Palestine” was “a colonialist Zionist plan” but “occupiers always leave in the end… [the Jews] too will return to where they came from,” says official PA TV:*​
*After the “present invaders” leave, Israel’s history in the land will be “one line written in blood,” writes official PA daily*​
*"History is a mirror in which the Israelis see themselves as thieves. They will surely leave defeated,” op-ed official PA daily*​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Within Arab-Moslem'ism there is the precept of _waqf, _that land conquerd or occupied by Islam is Islamic, forever, until the Day of Resurrection, as a part of the islamic ummah.


Then why is nobody talking about Spain?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Then why is nobody talking about Spain?



Cut and paste a youtube video.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem attacks on busses and the ensuing Israeli response is cause tor arrests of Arab-Moslem agitators. 

The proscription for gee-had comes from islamic ideology and the koran. The acts of Arab-Moslem violence committed on their ''holy places'' are religiously sanctioned.  











						Palestinians clash with police at Damascus Gate; 22 arrested, 17 wounded
					

Tensions have been rising in the area outside Jerusalem's Old City for weeks, leading to 'dozens' of arrests




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Palestinians clashed with police on Tuesday at Jerusalem’s Damascus Gate, leading to 22 arrests and 17 reportedly wounded as tensions at the flashpoint site spiked.

According to police, Palestinians violently rioted and threw stones at nearby buses, leading officers to use tear gas and sound grenades against the demonstrators. Police cannons also repeatedly sprayed foul-smelling skunk water over the streets and plaza near the archway in an effort to disperse the Palestinian protesters.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question 
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: I think you need to rethink your comments.  Our friend "Hollie" has hit the nail squarely on the head several times.  You are just not inclined to absorb and contemplate the points that she and our friend "rylah" have offered in their commentary.

I'm not saying the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict has not had a detrimental impact on the Palestinian economy (the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jerusalem); but the duration of the conflict and the shifting of the monetary focus by the Governments of Ramallah and Gaza, the graft, skimming, and corruption is completely out of control.



P F Tinmore said:


> Always on the bottom rung of the employment ladder.


*(COMMENT)*

Palestine (the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jerusalem) has its share of billionaires and millionaires.  Just look at the al-Masri family or the al-Husseini family from Jerusalem.  There are 600+ millionaires in the impoverished Gaza Strip.

If there is an unemployment problem in Palestine, they need to look closer to home.



P F Tinmore said:


> Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


*(COMMENT)*

If anyone is dancing with the devil here, it is you.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Terror Tunnels Is an Israeli propaganda term. Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.*


*(COMMENT)*
.
If memory serves me correctly, back in 2014, the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) well over two-dozen infiltration tunnels.  About half of them penetrated Israeli sovereign territory.  I may not know the details of their use, but under the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR) I don't think that the Israeli citizenry should be unconcerned for their personal safety the tunneling represents.  These tunnels were elaborate undertakings.  They were concrete tubes complete with cabling for power and telecommunications.

This "name-calling" kick you are on is rather amusing, given the toxic nature the Arab Palestinian (apartheid, genocide, rights denied, inhumane treatment, water libel, settlements, etc) use to further their goals.  

Just observing the Arab Palestinian adoption of psychopathic characteristics that they demonstrated in the "Great Return March" how they think, what morals they maintain, and the depths to which they will stoop to create incidents and incite violence.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> occupiers always leave in the end…



Sounds good. When will the Muslims all be returning to Arabia?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> If memory serves me correctly, back in 2014, the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) well over two-dozen infiltration tunnels. About half of them penetrated Israeli sovereign territory. I may not know the details of their use,


Not one civilian was attacked. The terror tunnel shtick is just more of Israel's terrorist name calling.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: General Question
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Not one civilian was attacked. The terror tunnel shtick is just more of Israel's terrorist name calling.


*(QUESTION)*

◈  Just how do you know what they were used for?​​◈  Just what was the intended use? ​​◈  Were they used to gather Red Cross supplies?​​◈  How do you know what level of danger these infiltration tunnels posed to the general population, the sovereignty, and territorial integrity?​
Help me out here.  What was the benevolent purpose for the tunnels?

Why should anyone consider these tunnels anything other than an asymmetric warfare threat by a Jihadist activity?

_Hamas is an international crime syndicate, and its official foreign policy is extortion - opinion_​Now:  There is a word that has been missing in the media when reporting on the topic of Qatari funds being sent to Gaza: Extortion.​The Jerusalem Post By DAVID S. LEVINE   OCTOBER 19, 2021 21:20​.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Not one civilian was attacked. The terror tunnel shtick is just more of Israel's terrorist name calling.


“Not one civilian was attacked”.  That could be considered a success by the IDF anti gee-had abilities.

Understandably, your feelings are hurt realizing that the sums of welfare money spent by the Pallys on their tunnel building has resulted in dead Islamic terrorists.


What’s the DTPM (Dead Terrorists Per Mile) rating for Pally tunnel building?








						Israel says it has destroyed more than 60 miles of a vast Hamas tunnel network called the 'Metro'
					

The Israeli military said in a video that it neutralized a significant portion of the vast network of tunnels built beneath Gaza.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ Just how do you know what they were used for?


For one, Hamas specifically stated that the tunnels would not be used against civilians but only to defend against attacking military.

For another, if there were any attacks against civilians Israel would make sure everybody heard about it. And people on this bourd would hawk those attacks for...oh....10-20 years.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> For one, Hamas specifically stated that the tunnels would not be used against civilians but only to defend against attacking military.
> 
> For another, if there were any attacks against civilians Israel would make sure everybody heard about it. And people on this bourd would hawk those attacks for...oh....10-20 years.


Was the Hamas statement delivered via a “ Certificate of Authenticity “?











						Hamas announces its 'heroes' are digging new tunnels and 'experimenting with rockets' - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
					

(JTA) — Palestinian “heroes” are digging tunnels to be used in future attacks on Israel, Hamas’ senior political leader said. At a funeral in Gaza City Friday for seven Hamas operatives killed when rain and flooding caused a tunnel they were working on to collapse, Ismail Haniyeh said...




					www.jta.org
				




(JTA) — Palestinian “heroes” are digging tunnels to be used in future attacks on Israel, Hamas’ senior political leader said.

At a funeral in Gaza City Friday for seven Hamas operatives killed when rain and flooding caused a tunnel they were working on to collapse, Ismail Haniyeh said preparations are underway for the next confrontation with Israel, Agence France Press reported.



You may need additional training time at the Hamas Institute of Taqiyya.

They have a YouTube channel, BTW.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Terror Tunnels Is an Israeli propaganda term. Those tunnels have never been used against civilians.*​


That's why Jihadis dug a tunnel into a dining room?









						Tunnels provide yet more evidence of Hamas’ use of ostensibly civilian buildings for military purposes - AIJAC
					

As the war in Gaza moves into its fourth week, additional information about Hamas' extensive network of underground tunnels is beginning to surface. One thing that has become increasingly clear is that, in keeping with Hamas practice, the entrances to many tunnels are located in clinics, homes...




					aijac.org.au


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Then why is nobody talking about Spain?




Arab Muslim supremacists openly talk about domination
of the entire Middle East - and then some...





__





						Muslims Demand 'Right of Return' to Spain
					

Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages. The growing clamor for




					www.realclearworld.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Then why is nobody talking about Spain?


Moslems aren’t talking about Spain because by 1614 they were expelled.

Gee-had in reverse, so to speak.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Specific Response
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  Anyone who believes this, needs a psych examination.

"Hamas specifically stated that the tunnels would not be used against civilians"​



P F Tinmore said:


> For one, Hamas specifically stated that the tunnels would not be used against civilians but only to defend against attacking military.
> 
> For another, if there were any attacks against civilians Israel would make sure everybody heard about it. And people on this bourd would hawk those attacks for...oh....10-20 years.


*(COMMENT)*

The overwhelming majority of all the HAMAS attacks, since the turn of the century, have been directed against civilians.  Since the turn of the century, no tunnel has been employed as any significant defensive measure.  Like I said before, at least a dozen tunnels have been discovered having penetrated the international boundary set up by the Israelis _(Self-Determination)_.

Every single rocket attack _(and there have been nearly 20,000 since the turn of the century)_ is considered an attack against Israeli civilians.  Every launched kite with an incendiary device is not only a violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law, but it is also a violation of the  Article 2(1) and Article 3 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing.
.
International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing
Article 1(3a):  An explosive or *incendiary weapon or device* that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage; 
*JERUSALEM (JTA)* — A group of Palestinians that claims to be behind the initiative to send incendiary kites and balloons from Gaza into southern Israel said it would launch 5,000 of the arson tools on Friday.
*Jerusalem Post (JP)*  — The fires have burned nearly 1,200 hectares of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 2,100 hectares of forested land in the region.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Specific Response
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Anyone who believes this, needs a psych examination.
> 
> "Hamas specifically stated that the tunnels would not be used against civilians"​
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The overwhelming majority of all the HAMAS attacks, since the turn of the century, have been directed against civilians.  Since the turn of the century, no tunnel has been employed as any significant defensive measure.  Like I said before, at least a dozen tunnels have been discovered having penetrated the international boundary set up by the Israelis _(Self-Determination)_.
> 
> Every single rocket attack _(and there have been nearly 20,000 since the turn of the century)_ is considered an attack against Israeli civilians.  Every launched kite with an incendiary device is not only a violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law, but it is also a violation of the  Article 2(1) and Article 3 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing.
> .
> International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing
> Article 1(3a):  An explosive or *incendiary weapon or device* that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage;
> *JERUSALEM (JTA)* — A group of Palestinians that claims to be behind the initiative to send incendiary kites and balloons from Gaza into southern Israel said it would launch 5,000 of the arson tools on Friday.
> *Jerusalem Post (JP)*  — The fires have burned nearly 1,200 hectares of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 2,100 hectares of forested land in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


So where is your list of Israel's violations?

Or are you running a double standard?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Maybe Israel could get them fired for supporting Palestine.



Firing Hadids for what,
because of their own greed they were projecting on others,
or because* you *don't like BDS-holes _"supporting Palestine"_ by investing in Tel-Aviv?

For a "palestine supporter" you seem most high
when picturing them suffering no matter how fake.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> So where is your list of Israel's violations?
> 
> Or are you running a double standard?


Really odd to suggest that Hamas is a benevolent entity making promises about who they will and will not bring the gee-had to.

Did you just fall off the taqiyya truck?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Specific Response
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:   Any nation involved in a continuous conflict, of varying degrees of intensity, over a period greater than a half-century, has bound to have been involved in some questionable event.  Not that I know of any particular even, but the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR) tells us that, somewhere along that timeline, the probabilities are very high that some such event did occur.



P F Tinmore said:


> So where is your list of Israel's violations?
> 
> Or are you running a double standard?


*(COMMENT)*
.
Having said that there is that probability of an even, and knowing that since the end of the Great War (1918), atrocities have taken place that has made an indelible impression on much of humankind, does not mean that the collective events over the duration of the Arab Palestinian - Israeli conflict rise to the level warrant Israel to be accused of the Crime of Genocide, Crimes against Humanity, War Crimes, or The Crime of Aggression. 

◈   Israel was not responsible for an Attack on an Olympic Village.​◈   Israel was not responsible for a single aircraft hijacking.​◈   Israel did not take a cruise ship hostage and throw a wheelchair-bound person overboard.​◈   Israel did not employ a campaign of suicide bombers.​◈   Israel did not intentionally line up men, women, and children from bus and mow them down with gunfire.​◈   etc, etc, etc,​
Israel was never involved in a committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population.  This differs significantly from the *open policy statements of the Arab Palestinians* now trying to play the part of victims.  Israel does not urge martyrdom-death for a heavenly reward, Israel does not pay stipends to bombers of places of public use, public transportation, school buses.  Israel is one of the most ethnically diverse nations in the entire Middle East - North African (MENA) Region, or of any of the Arab League Gulf States.  Israel is not an apartheid state where one racial group stands over any other racial group with the intention of maintaining that regime; Israel has changed regimes almost a dozen times since 1948.  


Yes, there are probably events that may require investigation, but can you tell me which ones that Israel did not investigate?

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) promote the idea that Israel opposes the aspiration for freedom, liberation, return and self-determination.  I'm not sure if this allegation is true or not, where is the evidence.  What is apparent is that Israel is a self-actuation nation that of its domestic laws, just as the Scandinavian states, the European States, and most of the MENA States.  Israel supports and operates, from all outward appearances, the idea that no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter or exit his own country.  But nothing is without exception.  Israel will take those steps necessary to protect national security (including sovereignty and territorial integrity), public order, public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others.   This is fully within the parameters set by the  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR).   And it would appear to me that Israel follows the CCPR concept that those people advocating racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence, will probably be denied entry.  This again is fully within the parameters set by the  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR).  And, obviously, those that advocate propaganda for war or incite conflict would probably be denied entry.  Remember, immigration (those that were not born in Israel) is at the discretion of Israel, as it is for every single member state of the UN.  

The significance of this is simple.  As an example, YOU have advocated the Right of the Arab Palestinian to engage in Hostile Activities.  So I would be surprised if the Israelis would allow you entry, but then it is up to them.   All those anti-Israeli protestors taking part in demonstrations along the Israeli-Gaza Border might be (by a reasonable person) a HoAP and thus denied entry no matter any other cause.

What I am looking for is evidence of:

Article 7   _*Crimes Against Humanity • Elements of Crimes • International Criminal Court*_​Introduction​The last two elements for each Crime Against Humanity describe the context in which the conduct must take place. These elements clarify the* requisite participation in and knowledge of a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population*.​
Does anyone really believe that the ICC Prosecutor should be a hired gun of an organization designated as a Terrorist Organization by the EU States?
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R




.


----------



## Mindful

FACT​Khaled Abu Toameh reported, “Palestinians in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip are excited. Israeli authorities have decided to allow thousands of them to work in Israel. The news about the Israeli decision spread like wildfire, prompting tens of thousands of Palestinians to converge on the offices of the chambers of commerce throughout the Gaza Strip in the hope of obtaining a permit to work in Israel” (Khaled Abu Toameh, “Why Palestinians Prefer To Work In Israel,” Gatestone Institute, October 13, 2021).

Palestinians are voting with their feet. They don’t believe their leaders’ propaganda or that of Western liberals thousands of miles away pushing the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, the specious comparison to Afrikaner South Africa, and nonsense about “settler colonialism.”

Israel increased the number of work permits for Gazans to 10,000. This is expected to bring more than $25 million a month into the Gaza Strip. The average daily wage of a Gazan laborer in Israel is nearly $100, which would be $11.75 hour for an 8-hour day (Amos Harel, “New Gaza work permits intended to postpone next clash,” _Haaretz_, October 21 2021). Most work in in construction, agriculture and manufacturing.

More than 100,000 Palestinians in the West Bank already have permits to work in Israel – 15,000 were added in July 2021. About 30,000 work in Jewish settlements, another example of the absurdity of anti-Israel rhetoric about how these communities are the obstacles to peace (Tovah Lazaroff, “13% hike in work permits for Palestinians prior to PM-Biden parley,” _Jerusalem Post_, July 28, 2021).

As Khaled Abu Toameh noted, Palestinian workers are also reacting to the “failure of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to improve the living conditions of their people despite the massive sums of money they receive from various sources, including the United States, European Union and United Nations.” He added:

Instead of building schools and hospitals and industrial zones, Hamas has been investing millions of dollars in arming and training its military group, Izaddin al-Qassam. Hamas prefers to spend money on any Palestinian who is prepared to join the jihad (holy war) on Israel than on an unemployed university graduate in the Gaza Strip.





__





						Myths & Facts: Online Exclusives
					

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.




					www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Does anyone really believe that the ICC Prosecutor should be a hired gun of an organization designated as a Terrorist Organization by the EU States?


They don't use the same name calling list.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> “Why Palestinians Prefer To Work In Israel,” Gatestone Institute, October 13, 2021).


Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.


Mindful said:


> FACT​Khaled Abu Toameh reported, “Palestinians in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip are excited. Israeli authorities have decided to allow thousands of them to work in Israel. The news about the Israeli decision spread like wildfire, prompting tens of thousands of Palestinians to converge on the offices of the chambers of commerce throughout the Gaza Strip in the hope of obtaining a permit to work in Israel” (Khaled Abu Toameh, “Why Palestinians Prefer To Work In Israel,” Gatestone Institute, October 13, 2021).
> 
> Palestinians are voting with their feet. They don’t believe their leaders’ propaganda or that of Western liberals thousands of miles away pushing the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, the specious comparison to Afrikaner South Africa, and nonsense about “settler colonialism.”
> 
> Israel increased the number of work permits for Gazans to 10,000. This is expected to bring more than $25 million a month into the Gaza Strip. The average daily wage of a Gazan laborer in Israel is nearly $100, which would be $11.75 hour for an 8-hour day (Amos Harel, “New Gaza work permits intended to postpone next clash,” _Haaretz_, October 21 2021). Most work in in construction, agriculture and manufacturing.
> 
> More than 100,000 Palestinians in the West Bank already have permits to work in Israel – 15,000 were added in July 2021. About 30,000 work in Jewish settlements, another example of the absurdity of anti-Israel rhetoric about how these communities are the obstacles to peace (Tovah Lazaroff, “13% hike in work permits for Palestinians prior to PM-Biden parley,” _Jerusalem Post_, July 28, 2021).
> 
> As Khaled Abu Toameh noted, Palestinian workers are also reacting to the “failure of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to improve the living conditions of their people despite the massive sums of money they receive from various sources, including the United States, European Union and United Nations.” He added:
> 
> Instead of building schools and hospitals and industrial zones, Hamas has been investing millions of dollars in arming and training its military group, Izaddin al-Qassam. Hamas prefers to spend money on any Palestinian who is prepared to join the jihad (holy war) on Israel than on an unemployed university graduate in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myths & Facts: Online Exclusives
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


Load of hooey.

Remember that the Gatestone Institute is an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> Remember that the Gatestone Institute is an Israeli propaganda organization.



Why do you bother?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> Remember that the Gatestone Institute is an Israeli propaganda organization.


At Gaza's Jihadis own request.

Notice, how you can't argue a single fact,
merely assuming it must  be incorrect only
because it's said by someone affiliated with Israel.

In other words,
are you coming here to have a discussion,
any point you can argue, or to hide behind a narrative bubble?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.



That's not true, terror rocket manufacturing and terror tunnel digging has never employed more....


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Unemployment Levels in the Gaza Strip
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:   I don't expect anything I say to persuade your anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian resolve.  But from one perspective:



			
				As Hamas Claims Victory said:
			
		

> The Palestinian factions in Gaza, mainly Hamas and Islamic Jihad, fired more than 4,000 rockets and mortar shells beginning on May 10, according to the Israeli military, following days of confrontations between Palestinians and Israeli security forces at the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound/Temple Mount in east Jerusalem.
> *SOURCE*: *The Media Line 5/29/21*



​



TOP 10 Highest Regional Unemplyement Ranking​
Unemployment, youth ages 15-24​*total: 40.2%
male: 34.8%
female: 67.2% (2019 est.)*
*Note:* includes the West Bank​​*Country Comparison to the world: 9*

Real GDP growth rate​*-15.2% (2014 est.)*
*5.6% (2013 est.)
7% (2012 est.)*
*Note:* excludes the West Bank​


P F Tinmore said:


> Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

This is non-sense_*!  *_



			
				Israeli Defense Force said:
			
		

> Context​In June of 2014, the IDF was in the middle of Operation ‘Brother’s Keeper’ in Judea and Samaria. Hamas and other terrorist organizations significantly increased rocket fire at civilian areas in southern Israel. Within three weeks, nearly 250 rockets were fired at Israeli civilian areas. The IDF was forced to respond.
> SOURCE:  *Israeli Defense Force Description*



HAMAS ignited the conflict with Rocket Fire →  *Eighty rockets were fired on 7 July.*  On the following day, Israel launched Operation Protective Edge.
​



Talley of HAMAS Rocket Fire Leading up to and including 
Operation Protective Edge​


P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey.
> 
> Remember that the Gatestone Institute is an Israeli propaganda organization.


*(COMMENT)*
.
My experience in our discussions is that you are not satisfied with any Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) or Media Outlet unless is supports your position.  So I'm not surprised by this commentary segment.

*Gatestone Institute*, a non-partisan, not-for-profit international policy council and think tank is dedicated to educating the public about what the mainstream media fails to report in promoting:

Institutions of Democracy and the Rule of Law;
Human Rights
A free and strong economy
A military capable of ensuring peace at home and in the free world
Energy independence
Ensuring the public stay informed of threats to our individual liberty, sovereignty and free speech..





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Unemployment Levels in the Gaza Strip
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:   I don't expect anything I say to persuade your anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian resolve.  But from one perspective:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 556245
> TOP 10 Highest Regional Unemplyement Ranking​
> Unemployment, youth ages 15-24​*total: 40.2%*​*male: 34.8%*​*female: 67.2% (2019 est.)*​*Note:* includes the West Bank​​*Country Comparison to the world: 9*
> 
> Real GDP growth rate​*-15.2% (2014 est.)*​*5.6% (2013 est.)*​*7% (2012 est.)*​*Note:* excludes the West Bank​
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is non-sense_*!  *_
> 
> HAMAS ignited the conflict with Rocket Fire →  *Eighty rockets were fired on 7 July.*  On the following day, Israel launched Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 556274
> Talley of HAMAS Rocket Fire Leading up to and including
> Operation Protective Edge​
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> My experience in our discussions is that you are not satisfied with any Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) or Media Outlet unless is supports your position.  So I'm not surprised by this commentary segment.
> 
> *Gatestone Institute*, a non-partisan, not-for-profit international policy council and think tank is dedicated to educating the public about what the mainstream media fails to report in promoting:
> 
> Institutions of Democracy and the Rule of Law;
> Human Rights
> A free and strong economy
> A military capable of ensuring peace at home and in the free world
> Energy independence
> Ensuring the public stay informed of threats to our individual liberty, sovereignty and free speech..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R



P F Tinmore said: 


           Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.


No discussion about this allegation?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Police suspect that the young woman felt sick last Saturday and turned for help to a 64-year-old sheik, a former senior member of the Islamic Movement who practices witchcraft. During the exorcism ceremony that was conducted by the sheik, the young woman collapsed and was evacuated to a local clinic in Tel Sheva, where she was treated by her relative, a doctor, 32, who also works in one of the hospitals in the south. He called her death.

The victim’s brother-in-law told Channel 13 News: “We understand that he (the sheik) strangled her as part of the treatment. She came in alive and came out dead. I don’t understand, why did he have to strangle her?”

(full article online)









						Bedouin Woman Dies in Exorcism Performed by Ismail Haniyeh’s Relative
					

"It turned out that as part of the treatment process, the person actually gets strangled."




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Unemployment Levels in the Gaza Strip
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  There are, in each discussion set, a pattern of responses that becomes a footprint of the writer.  I think mine is almost impossible to miss, as I am sure that most people would agree is your footprint.  I am very careful to give credit to the original source from which I pull information.  Hense, I cite source material or provide URLs as is appropriate.  You, on the other hand, provide little commentary but rather, post videos or commentary from other sources.  This makes some of your responses very repetitive; being predictable.



P F Tinmore said:


> Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.
> 
> No discussion about this allegation?


*(COMMENT)*.

Are you saying that you are not anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian resolve?
Are you saying that you are not influenced by these grounded visions?
Are you saying that there is no evidence to be found in these discussions to substantiate my impression?
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The news all weekend has been about the backlash against Israel declaring six specific Palestinian NGOs as having links to the terrorist PFLP organization. 




> Israel and the US State Department clashed over the weekend after the Justice and Defense ministries on Friday declared that several leading Palestinian NGOs were arms of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terrorist organization.
> The ministries each issued documents classifying Addameer, Al Haq, Bisan Center, Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCI-P), Union Of Agricultural Work Committees (UAWC) and the Union of Palestinian Women’s Committees (UPWC), as branches of the PFLP, joining other NGOs who had previously also been designated as terrorist affiliates.
> The US State Department criticized the announcement on Friday in the most explicit admonition from the Biden administration since the new Israeli government was formed in June.



The State of Israel itself has issued a detailed report, titled "Terrorists in Suits," documenting the extensive links between the PFLP and three of the organizations listed - Al Haq, Defense for Children International-Palestine, and Addameer. Some excerpts:
--------------

There is no coincidence here. The PFLP is a Marxist organization that uses human rights as a weapon against Israel at the exact same time they are using explosives to kill Jews. Because it is socialist, the far Left haters of Israel fully embrace the PFLP, treating its terrorists as heroes - and these are many of the same organizations now screaming the loudest that their terrorist-linked NGOs are being treated appropriately. 

What about the other organizations listed? What are their PFLP links?

One of the people arrested for the murder of Rina Shnerb was Samer Arbid, who served as an accountant at the Union of Agricultural Works Committees (UAWC) and led the cell for the murder - which the PFLP proudly calls the Bubeen operation.

The Regavim organization documented the links between the PFLP and UAWC:

(full article online)









						The terrorist PFLP's links to Palestinian NGOs are extensive
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Unemployment Levels in the Gaza Strip
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  There are, in each discussion set, a pattern of responses that becomes a footprint of the writer.  I think mine is almost impossible to miss, as I am sure that most people would agree is your footprint.  I am very careful to give credit to the original source from which I pull information.  Hense, I cite source material or provide URLs as is appropriate.  You, on the other hand, provide little commentary but rather, post videos or commentary from other sources.  This makes some of your responses very repetitive; being predictable.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*.
> 
> Are you saying that you are not anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian resolve?
> Are you saying that you are not influenced by these grounded visions?
> Are you saying that there is no evidence to be found in these discussions to substantiate my impression?
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


I am just a neutral observer.  I am a middle class, Midwestern, (I live about 20 minutes from you.) white guy. I have lived most of my life in the Cleveland area. I was raised in a household that did not classify people by race, religion, etc. as they were irrelevant concepts.

I stumbled upon the conflict about 2000 and have been trying to make sense of it ever since. Before then, like most Americans, I knew nothing. I have read the documents, watched the documentaries, and listened to the talks. Then I tried to match that to the facts on the ground.

I base my conclusions on what I can see.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*: While that is a very interesting response, it does not maintain the line and continuity of the discussion.

Are you saying that you are not anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian resolve?​Are you saying that you are not influenced by these grounded visions?​Are you saying that there is no evidence to be found in these discussions to substantiate my impression?​


P F Tinmore said:


> I am just a neutral observer.  I am a middle class, Midwestern, (I live about 20 minutes from you.) white guy. I have lived most of my life in the Cleveland area. I was raised in a household that did not classify people by race, religion, etc. as they were irrelevant concepts.


*(COMMENT)*

I cannot say that I am a "neutral observer."  I am an opininated "outside observer."

I cannot but help to take "race, religion, etc." into account where there is evidence that they play a part on the issues.  Each time someone say "apartheid" that are injecting (by definition) the twin concepts of "dominance" and "race."  Each time someone mentions HAMAS, they are injection the concept of religion.  HAMAS means "ISLAMIC" Resistance Movement (a "_Palestinian _*Islamic*_ national liberation and resistance movement_").  And *IF *you read the _*General Principles and Policy of HAMAS*_ (updated alla 2017 _Copyright © 2021 Hamas All rights reserved_) *THEN* you cannot help but observe that HAMAS makes it very plain:  "_*Palestine is an Arab Islamic land.  (Palestine is at the heart of the Arab and Islamic Ummah and enjoys a special status.)*_"  You cannot understand the conflict unless you take (as you say) "race, religion, etc." into the context.

While it might sound very 21st Century-ish or trendy to say you consider these concepts "irrelevant" the fact is they are not.



P F Tinmore said:


> I stumbled upon the conflict about 2000 and have been trying to make sense of it ever since. Before then, like most Americans, I knew nothing. I have read the documents, watched the documentaries, and listened to the talks. Then I tried to match that to the facts on the ground.


*(COMMENT)*.

After my tour in Vietnam, I spent about 80% of my adult life overseas, either in the various Pacific Commands or the European Command before I retired in 1989. And as you may have guessed, my _Alma Mater_ (_nourishing mother_) is The Ohio State University, although I have studied at several institutions. Start in 2004 I became a Civilian Advisor in the Government and served in such fashionable places as Afghanistan, Iraq and Yemen. And while I may not have been to the land between the Jordan River - westward to the - Mediterranean Sea, I've left footprints in sand of a number of neighbors including Jordan and Kuwait. I understand the ground. In 2011, I traded my boots for Merrells and put my feet up. 



P F Tinmore said:


> I base my conclusions on what I can see.


*(COMMENT)*.

Can you honestly say this?

Just as visually there are illusions, it exists that there are other mental illusions that shape our perception.  During my Doctoral Candidacy, several of us, while drinking at the Agora, dawned and experiment.  We put on glasses that inverted our view.  It was just one of those foolish things you might agree to in a euphoric state.  The idea was to see whose mind would be the fastest to adapt and mentally make the correction.  Mine never changed, but in about four days, a couple others did experience the change.  But they ran into a problem when they took the glasses off.

The point of this little story is that what you think you see, is not always what is there.  That is just as true for mental reasoning as it is for visual perceptions.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> Because Israel destroyed the employment in Gaza.
> 
> 
> No discussion about this allegation?


What is there to discuss? You made an unsupported claim.

YouTube video?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I am just a neutral observer.



…..who spends most of my waking moments cutting and pasting YouTube videos in furtherance of hating Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier this month Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde warned, "If we are to fully support economic development, then we can not have corruption at such a level as exists in Palestine." 

A recent audit of the Palestinian Authority for the year 2020 revealed many examples of corruption and embezzlement of funds. These included misuse of funding for the Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, the “National Committee as a Permanent Capital for Arab culture,” abuses by the Palestinian Ministry of Finance, Al-Aqsa University and many other institutions. If lots of money is sent to the Palestinian government, you can assume that much of it is going into the pockets of their leaders.

The total aid expected by the Palestinian government this year is only 10% of the total pledges of donor countries to the PA. One official said that the funds expected to come later this month from France and the EU were earmarked in 2020, and the 2021 money has not yet come.

The rampant corruption of the Palestinian Authority is still barely reported in the media, even though it is well known to the international community and to Palestinians themselves. It contradicts the narrative that Palestinian suffering is all because of Israel, and therefore the media believes that reporting this will just confuse people - and cause them to lose interest in a conflict that is a cash cow for the news business.

(full article online)









						Palestinian corruption is causing international funding to dry up almost completely
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muslim Children Pretend to Shoot at Jews on the Temple Mount
					

Is the Temple Mount actually holy to the Muslims?




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Although the summer is over, the PA and Fatah continue what they call “summer camp activities” for youth that present terrorists as role models. At the PA Security Forces’ university, Al-Istiqlal University, the PA’s police administration and Fatah’s Shabiba High School Movement are teaching 50 female teenagers to see terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37 Israelis as a role model. The teens, who are from schools in the area, participate in a camp named after the murderer, who together with other terrorists hijacked a bus full of Israeli civilians in 1978, murdering 25 adults and 12 children:



> “The [Fatah] Shabiba High School [Movement] Committees, the student wing of Fatah’s Salfit branch, continued the summer camp activities at Al-Istiqlal University (i.e., PA Security Forces university) in Jericho, in cooperation with the [PA] police administration. Fifty young women from the Salfit schools are participating in the [training] camp, which is named ‘*Class of Martyr Dalal Mughrabi*’.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 23, 2021]


The Salfit branch of Fatah’s Shabiba High School Movement Committees posted photos of the camp participants during training at which they wore military uniforms and stood in formation. (See picture above)



> *Posted text:* “Some of the activities and drills of the Fatah Shabiba High School [Movement Committees] – Salfit Branch camp, which is currently being held at Al-Istiqlal University (i.e., PA Security Forces university) in Jericho for this the second consecutive day. It should be noted that 50 female students from the schools in Salfit are participating in this camp that bears the name *‘Class of Mart.yr Dalal Mughrabi’*.
> The Shabiba High School Committees – Salfit Branch”
> _(The “.” in the word “Martyr” is an apparent attempt to evade Facebook’s algorithm)_
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Shabiba High School Movement Committees – Salfit Branch, Oct. 22, 2021]


At the end of the two-day camp the participants received certificates:








> *Text on certificate:* “Certificate of Participation
> The Fatah Movement - Salfit Branch
> and Al-Istiqlal University attest that female student [NAME]
> participated in the sisters' winter camp, *Class of Martyr Dalal Mughrabi*
> between the dates of Oct. 21, 2021 - Oct. 23, 2021
> Al-Istiqlal University, Jericho"
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Shabiba High School Movement Committees – Salfit Branch, Oct. 23, 2021]


Member of Fatah’s Central Committee Tawfiq Tirawi and Fatah Salfit Branch Secretary Abd Al-Sattar Awwad both attended the graduation ceremony of the Fatah camp, at which the young female participants again wore military uniforms and Palestinian _keffiyeh_scarves:

(full article online)









						PA Police and Fatah teach 50 girls to see terrorist murderer Mughrabi as role model | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah officials at graduation ceremony of “Class of Martyr Dalal Mughrabi”




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> After my tour in Vietnam, I spent about 80% of my adult life overseas, either in the various Pacific Commands or the European Command before I retired in 1989.


You see, there is your problem. Government employment makes you think funny.

You view the world from the top down. I view the world from the bottom up. While you are talking guns and power, I am talking rights and freedom.

We just don't speak a common language.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> …..who spends most of my waking moments cutting and pasting YouTube videos in furtherance of hating Jews.


Links?


----------



## Sixties Fan

As we've seen, the PFLP makes no distinction between its political and social movements and its support for murdering Jews.  These "human rights" groups don't consider Jews to be human. And they are being defended by the international human rights community.

The PFLP itself has its own unusual definition of human rights.

A PFLP representative gave a speech in Cuba to mark the group's 45th anniversary in 2012. Here is what he said about human rights:



> On this anniversary, we reaffirm our commitment to our goals, principles and inalienable Palestinian national rights. Some of these have been recognized and approved by the norms, principles, conventions, international resolutions, international law and human rights. The first of these rights is the right of the Palestinian people to resist the occupation by all means and methods.


"All means and methods" is the Palestinian way of saying "terror attacks." 



_PFLP training camp for kids, this year
_
This is the lens through which any honest person must look at these organizations that claim to uphold a progressive, human rights agenda. To them, human rights includes murdering Jews for their cause.

I cannot find a counterexample where these purported human rights groups admit that Israel Jews are human or that they condemn terror attacks against Jews in Israel. (I even posted a bet in Twitterthat no such statement exists.)

When Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, B'Tselem and the UN all defend the PFLP's social organizations, they are defending a philosophy where murdering Jews is celebrated.

(full article online)









						The PFLP says it is a "human right" for Palestinians to kill Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Links?


Yes.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the entire existence of Pally Cultists is subsidiary to the goal of gee-had in the service of Jew hating. The contents of the Koran and the Sunnah make clear that gee-had is the final means set down for the achievement of this goal. This Islamic gee-had is the longest and most victim-rich campaign to inflict death and misery in human history.

Even the Ummah's girls can occassionaly be called into the service of inflicting death and misery. It's what they do. 










						PA Police and Fatah teach 50 girls to see terrorist murderer Mughrabi as role model | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah officials at graduation ceremony of “Class of Martyr Dalal Mughrabi”




					palwatch.org
				




PA Police and Fatah teach 50 girls to see terrorist murderer Mughrabi as role model​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 26, 2021

*Fatah officials at graduation ceremony of “Class of Martyr Dalal Mughrabi”*​
*Young female participants train in military uniforms*​





Although the summer is over, the PA and Fatah continue what they call “summer camp activities” for youth that present terrorists as role models. At the PA Security Forces’ university, Al-Istiqlal University, the PA’s police administration and Fatah’s Shabiba High School Movement are teaching 50 female teenagers to see terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led the murder of 37 Israelis as a role model. The teens, who are from schools in the area, participate in a camp named after the murderer, who together with other terrorists hijacked a bus full of Israeli civilians in 1978, murdering 25 adults and 12 children:


----------



## Sixties Fan

I happened to catch this person's picture on the website of Islamic Jihad's Saraya site as a "martyr." 

He looked pretty young.

He was.

According to his obituary, Omar Salman Abu Mustafa was killed two months short of his 18th birthday, on October 24, 2004.

Mustafa had joined Islamic Jihad in 2002, when he was 15, and he joined their Saraya al-Quds unit in 2003 when he was 16.

He was killed along with his 30 year old brother in Gaza.

Mustafa was hardly unique. 




Islamic Jihad is also celebrating the anniversary of the "martyrdom" of Saeed Muhammad Al-Najjar, killed on October 25 2004, the day after his 17th birthday. He joined Islamic Jihad at 13 and the Saraya brigades at 16.

Defense for Children-Palestine seems silent about this.










						Just some Palestinian child soldier "martyrs" being celebrated
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

I believe there is a certain common sense approach to Pally islamic terrorism and that requires not rewarding isamic terrorist behavior. 

The dedicated welfare fraud agency, (UNRWA), is a fund that provides  money and incentives for Pally terrorism. Opening a Pally terrorist "consulate" that has no real purpose other than to legitimize islamic terrorism serves no purpose. 



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/10/18/us-consulate-for-palestinians-will-encourage-terrorism/
		


Instead of encouraging the world to divide Jerusalem and turn it into a city plagued by terrorism, you must send a clear message to the world at large: Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people, bereaved families tell US Secretary of State Antony Blinken.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Common Sense
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*:    Hollie is correct. She has a solution. But the preferred outcomes are NOT going to give politicians the "instant gratification” they want. Common Sense is rather hard to find in the Rarified Gaseous Atmosphere inside the Beltway around the Capitol. The closer you get to Congress or the White House, the denser foolishness becomes. The same is True at the HQ UN in NYC, Ramallah, Gaza, and the Hague. Sometimes, when you pull the bandage off, it will hurt.



Hollie said:


> I believe there is a certain common sense approach to Pally islamic terrorism and that requires not rewarding isamic terrorist behavior.


*(COMMENT)*

Of course this is an Israeli problem.  Putting the squeeze on the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) 



Hollie said:


> The dedicated welfare fraud agency, (UNRWA), is a fund that provides  money and incentives for Pally terrorism. Opening a Pally terrorist "consulate" that has no real purpose other than to legitimize islamic terrorism serves no purpose.


*(COMMENT)*

While the initial idea behind the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) was honorable, it has become subject to the Stockholm syndrome at the political level and agency wide. The UNRWA (_as well as several donor nations_) has become psycho-politically bond with their captors (HoAP) during financial captivity. At first, the UNRWA was dependent on good relations with the HoAP. But now the HoAP and Corrupt Governments in Ramallah and Gaza are dependent on the welfare provided by the UNRWA. 

As I said in several of my previous comentaries, here BESA says it betteer: "Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas show a *clear intention to turn the clock back*. Israel cannot accept these dictates, which would have been rejected out of hand by Yitzhak Rabin."​


			
				The Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies (AKA: the BESA Center) said:
			
		

> Mahmoud Abbas’s Demands: A Decree of Israel’s Surrender​*SOURCE*: BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 2,099 • By Maj. Gen. (res.) Gershon Hacohen • July 19, 2021






Hollie said:


> Instead of encouraging the world to divide Jerusalem and turn it into a city plagued by terrorism, you must send a clear message to the world at large: Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people, bereaved families tell US Secretary of State Antony Blinken.


.
*(COMMENT)*

This is an external effort by outside political entities to placate and appease the HoAP. The HoAP hold peace hostage. And the damage they have done will take (_not decade, but_) generations to come, as the UNRWA has ingrained the HoAP as the only way to peace casting the Israelis and the US as the evil villains.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority issued the instruction recently, saying it is prohibited to sell gasoline in plastic or glass containers to citizens, making it more difficult to get the crucial ingredient for Molotov cocktails.

"Resistance activists" said that this was meant to "protect the occupation."  There are daily attacks against Israeli motorists and police using the crude firebombs. However, there have been many protests against the Palestinian Authority recently as well, and this decision  might have been aimed at those.

Political activist Fakhri Jaradat told Felesteen that the PA aims to control the security situation in the West Bank and bury all kinds of resistance.

According to the Shin Bet, there were 187 Molotov cocktail attacks against Israel in September, more than double the incidents in August.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority stops fuel stations from selling gasoline in containers for Molotov cocktails
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The board of directors of the Waqfet Ezz fund were rich businessmen who were expected to donate huge amounts.

Already last year, criticisms of the fund started.  Citizens felt that the government was responsible for helping the people and shouldn't push the issue of funding to the private sector. Only $13 million was raised in the first month. 10 of the 29 board members didn't give a dime. People felt that the board should include citizens from Gaza, from academia and from NGOs, instead of only rich businessmen who raised their own prices for goods to take advantage of the coronavirus.

Now, an audit shows that the Waqfet Ezz fund misused its limited funds, and gave aid to many people who didn't deserve it. Some people who made handsome salaries still snagged benefits, and some families had as many as seven members each apply for and receive benefits when it was meant on a per-family basis.

Where there is money, there is Palestinian corruption.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority misused COVID-19 funds
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

( Why?  What children in any normal country, territory is teaching their children such toxic garbage?  )

What could be more appropriate than a song about dying for Allah and “Palestine” to celebrate a wedding anniversary? What could be cuter than 2 young girls singing the song? And what could be more damaging than the PA’s constant brainwashing of Palestinian children and adults that “Martyrdom” is good, prestigious, and what Allah desires?

On occasion of the wedding anniversary of imprisoned terrorist Khaled Al-Baseti who is serving 21-years for stabbing 4 Israelis, the PA TV program for and about Palestinian prisoners, _Giants of Endurance_, sent him greetings from his relatives. Among the well-wishers were two young girls singing a song that advocates dying for “freedom” and for “Palestine”:

Full article online)









						Young girls sing “we’ll sacrifice our lives” on PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

Girls sing in honor of terrorist prisoner who stabbed 4




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ desire to petition the International Court of Justice on the “issue of the legality of the occupation of the land of the Palestinian state and the relevant obligations for the United Nations and States around the world in this regard” opens a “Pandora’s box” of questions.
A legal situation of “occupation” is, in and of itself, not inherently illegal. On the contrary, it is a legally acknowledged situation in international law and practice.
To raise the question before the international court as to whether there exists a “Palestinian state” would appear to be presumptuous and even pre-empt and prejudge the outcome of the negotiation process. There exists no internationally accepted and binding document attesting to the existence of any Palestinian state.
It is unclear if those advising the Palestinian leadership fully understand the distinction between the status and functions of the two different international judicial bodies, the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice.
The Palestinian leadership alleging before the UN and ICJ that Israel is violating the Oslo Accords would be ironic, in light of the long list of fundamental breaches of those accords by the Palestinians.
It remains improbable that the Palestinian leadership could establish any viable cause of action in the ICJ against Israel, based on the Oslo Accords.

(full article online)









						Are the Palestinians Changing their Legal Tactics in the International Courts?
					

Do the Palestinians even have juridical standing in the ICC and ICJ? - Are the Palestinians Changing their Legal Tactics in the International Courts?




					jcpa.org


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys may have decided to more fully exploit their ''young girls'' for the gee-had. 

Afterall, what father wouldn't beam with pride seeing his daughter _excel at school, pursue a career, maybe marry and raise a family_.... destroy herself and others in a bright orange flash of explosion followed by red hot shrapnel flying through the air at supersonic speed. 

What a truly retrograde collection of Cultists. 










						Young girls sing “we’ll sacrifice our lives” on PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

Girls sing in honor of terrorist prisoner who stabbed 4




					palwatch.org
				




Young girls sing “we’ll sacrifice our lives” on PA TV​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 27, 2021




*Girls sing in honor of terrorist prisoner who stabbed 4*​
What could be more appropriate than a song about dying for Allah and “Palestine” to celebrate a wedding anniversary? What could be cuter than 2 young girls singing the song? And what could be more damaging than the PA’s constant brainwashing of Palestinian children and adults that “Martyrdom” is good, prestigious, and what Allah desires?
On occasion of the wedding anniversary of imprisoned terrorist Khaled Al-Baseti who is serving 21-years for stabbing 4 Israelis, the PA TV program for and about Palestinian prisoners, _Giants of Endurance_, sent him greetings from his relatives. Among the well-wishers were two young girls singing a song that advocates dying for “freedom” and for “Palestine”:


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the article, he told Lazzarini that he supports UNRWA  not as an institution that provides services to Palestinian refugees, but because it represents a political basis for the "right of return": of millions of Palestinians to flood Israel and turn it into another Arab state.

To help achieve this, Majdalani said he opposed the US insisting that UNRWA teach that Israel has the right to exist and not teach incitement. He strenuously opposes the UNRWA's agreement with the US  to ensure objectivity as a condition for funding, saying, "We consider this agreement to carry risks that target and threaten the refugee issue, in order to undermine and liquidate it. It also redefines the refugee, and this is considered a dangerous matter for us in the Palestine Liberation Organization."

He is not only speaking for himself, but for the PLO altogether.

UNRWA pretends to be a non-political, objective organization, but of course it isn't. It says it must exist until there is a resolution to the "refugee" issue, and since the Palestinians won't accept any resolution short of destroying Israel, UNRWA essentially agrees with Majdalani and the PLO.

In the meeting, Lazzarini apparently didn't say a word of disagreement to Majdalani's characterization of the agency, instead praising Majdalani for his words supporting UNRWA's goals of obtaining more funds. 

His silence is admission. UNRWA will not say it out loud, but it regards itself as a crucial tool in the eventual destruction of Israel as well. 


(full article online)









						The Palestinians say that they regard UNRWA as a means to destroy Israel, not as an aid organization. (@UNRWA doesn't disagree.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

In September, 28% said a peace agreement while a plurarilty of 39%  said they felt terror was the best way.

When asked a somewhat different question, as to the most effective way to end the "occupation," a smaller plurality than September prefers terror.  44% chose "armed struggle" and 36% negotiations, compared to September's  48% preferring terror and 28% preferring negotiations.

I think the reason is that after the May conflict, Palestinians identified more with Hamas, which they respected for shooting rockets at Jerusalem to "defend Silwan" or "al-Aqsa." A month after the fighting, the "end the occupation" question  resulted in 49% chose armed struggle, 27% negotiations, roughly the same as September. Before the war, in April, 36% said that they prefer reaching a peace agreement with Israel and 26% said they prefer violence. 

So the tilt towards supporting terror seems to have been a bump in support of Hamas' philosophy as a result of the war, and now disillusionment on how little that helped is starting to set in. (The poll also showed that Hamas' popularity has gone down in October.)

Another factor may be that Palestinians are reacting positively towards Israeli goodwill gestures under the Bennett government, like allowing 4G networking in the territories. 

But as we are seeing,  support for negotiations is not a solid position. Public opinion can easily turn towards supporting terror at any time, as it has many times before. 

No one mentions the consistent pattern in the polls: acts of terror like suicide bombs and rocket barrages do not bring revulsion from the Palestinian public, but huge waves of support.

(full article online)









						Palestinians are a little more peaceful this month, according to the latest poll
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

During official PA TV’s religious program _Fatwa_, the PA’s Grand Mufti, Muhammad Hussein called on Palestinians to use “all means” to free Palestinian prisoners – i.e., imprisoned terrorists and murderers. Not only is the term “all means” a Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror, but the Mufti continued with a statement that can certainly be understood by Palestinians as a call to kidnap Israelis to bring about “prisoner exchange deals.”

Specifically the Mufti mentioned the Jibril Exchange of 1985 in which Israel released 1,150 Palestinian prisoners, including terrorist murderers, in exchange for three Israeli soldiers who had been taken hostage by the PFLP. He added that other deals with “large exchanges of prisoners between us and the occupation” had also taken place, thereby reminding Palestinians of the more recent exchange of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit for 1,027 terrorist prisoners:













(full article online)









						PA Mufti’s veiled call to kidnap Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

Mufti: “Work with all means that will lead to… prisoner exchange deals”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

I read the words "_Palestinian Islamic Scholar_" and I just know it's going to be a disaster. 



Palestinian Islamic scholar Sheikh Abd Al-Bari Khilla said in an August 9, 2021 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad – Gaza) that women are by nature not suited to judge in cases of Islamic punishments and the death penalty. Sheikh Khilla explained that women cannot usually bear to watch the execution of a murderer and that they may rule against the flogging of a "criminal" who drank alcohol. He added that he, and anyone else, would prefer to have a male prime minister rather than a woman because women are naturally less suitable for such a position.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and PIJ, it seems, want to continue receiving funds and weapons from Iran, but they do not want to be seen by Arabs and Muslims as mercenaries serving Iran's interests in the Middle East.
Hamas and PIJ want the Palestinians and the rest of the Arabs and Muslims to believe that their only goal is to "liberate all of Palestine, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea" -- a euphemism for driving the Jews out of Israel and replacing it with an Islamist state.
That is most likely why both Palestinian terror groups were quick to issue statements denying that their main goal is to defend Iran and serve its interests in the Middle East.
"Take your armies and go with them back to Iran, where you can fight your battles away from the peoples you occupy to achieve your agendas," said Sami Gemayel, head of the Lebanese Kataeb Party. He also criticized the failure of Lebanese leaders to respond to the admission that Hezbollah was created to serve Iran, and not Lebanon: "Are you ready now to face the truth?"
The Iranian commander's [Maj. Gen. Gholam Ali Rashid's] statements coincide with the Biden administration's delusional commitment to the fiction that the US will somehow convince Iran to abandon its plans to acquire nuclear weapons.
While the Biden administration is talking about "diplomacy" as the best way to rein in Iran's nuclear program, the mullahs are preparing for war and advancing their scheme to annihilate Israel and, with the help of their six "armies," occupy still more Arab countries.

(full article online)









						The Role of Iran's Palestinian Mercenaries
					

Hamas and PIJ, it seems, want to continue receiving funds and weapons from Iran, but they do not want to be seen by Arabs and Muslims as mercenaries serving Iran's interests in the Middle East. Hamas and PIJ want the Palestinians and the rest of the




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The Pallys see the Great Satan as a major impediment to their continued exploitation of the UN sponsored welfare and Islamic terrorist program training program. 













						‘Flagrant blackmailing’: Palestinians denounce US-UNRWA deal
					

The US framework includes monitoring Palestinian school curricula and social media activities of UNRWA staff.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




The US framework includes monitoring Palestinian school curricula and social media activities of UNRWA staff.

*Gaza City –* Palestinians in the besieged Gaza Strip called for the scrapping of an agreement between the US and the United Nation’s agency for Palestinian refugees, saying the deal violates many of their rights.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> *Gaza City –* Palestinians in the besieged Gaza Strip called for the scrapping of an agreement between the US and the United Nation’s agency for Palestinian refugees, saying the deal violates many of their rights.



Violates their right to cash US welfare checks, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


I like how Pally terrorists hate the kufar Amreekans but love those kuffar Amreekan welfare dollars.


----------



## Hollie

''_Stop your Islamic terrorism.. But if you don't, well that's ok._''












						Swedish FM on Ramallah visit raps Palestinians for corruption
					

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde called on the Palestinian Authority to fight its own corruption, but did not threaten to slash aid to Palestinian NGOs if the corruption will not be curbed.




					www.jpost.com
				



Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde called on the Palestinian Authority to fight its own corruption, but did not threaten to slash aid to Palestinian NGOs if the corruption will not be curbed.​​
​


----------



## Hollie

I have to believe that converting to Shia Islam would net the Pallys more Mullah bucks.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Fascinating,  how she prefers filling her pockets to be among the richest people on earth,
away from the corruption and self-degradation of her own people. Thinking it gives
any authority to her fake socialist indignation "to dictate the world" how to be,
while she's enjoying the comfort  of drinking Vodka in the Great Satan.

The socialist motto -  "do as I say, not as I do".


----------



## Sixties Fan

(  Ooooops, why doesn't the PA give some, if not all, of the money they took, back?  )

Analysis: EU, the Gulf states and U.S. have all cut aid to the Palestinians, whose financial difficulties have been exacerbated by the coronavirus pandemic​
(full article online)









						PA on verge of financial collapse as fewer donors honor commitments
					

Analysis: EU, the Gulf states and U.S. have all cut aid to the Palestinians, whose financial difficulties have been exacerbated by the coronavirus pandemic




					www.ynetnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The circumstances leading up to their deaths is unclear. However, the IDF stated it had targeted Hamas operatives that launched an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) on May 17. Both Muhammed Hassan Abu Samaan and Muhammed Jamal Abu Samaan were killed on May 17, according to al-Qassam Brigades. It’s possible they were a part of the cell that launched the UUV and were subsequently targeted by the Israel Defense Forces. However, FDD’s Long War Journal could not independently verify this information.

It’s also noteworthy to mention Ali Bris was also a member of Gaza’s military police which adds to the increasing evidence of the dual-roles some militants play in the Gaza Strip. 

Al-Qassam Brigades’ acknowledgement six months after the deaths of the fighters reveals a pattern of previously undisclosed information about its specialized fighters months and sometimes years after their deaths. In 2017, al-Qassam Brigades published a thirteen-minute video called ‘The Road to Zikim’ which revealed ‘new information’ about a 2014 operation carried out by one of the group’s Frogman units inside Israeli territory. 

Hamas’ late acknowledgement suggests it did not want to reveal the role of the fighters who were killed in an effort to control morale during a time where commanders and special units were being targeted and killed by Israel in large numbers. It’s likely more information of this nature will be revealed by the group at a later date.

(full article online)





__





						Hamas Acknowledges Members of Specialized Unit Killed by Israel | FDD's Long War Journal
					

Hamas acknowledges three militants killed during the Gaza conflict in May were members of a specialized naval unit.



					www.longwarjournal.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has exposed that the PA actively promotes the “armed struggle” and glorifies the use of terror against Israel via songs broadcast on official PA TV. A PA TV quiz included numerous songs that are “a basic part of our [Palestinian] culture ‎and express our national identity.” Songs that “still fascinate us with ‎values and meanings.” Among the lyrics in the quiz songs were: 


“I'm coming with my rifle… I’m coming towards you, my enemy”

(full article online)









						“Bullets and gunpowder are the source of pride” of the homeland – song on official PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

As an introduction to a report on imprisoned terrorists from the town of Bita, official PA TV played part of a song glorifying the “uprising” for the “homeland” and the use of “bullets and gunpowder” against Israel




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Pally officials are outraged... in case you didn't know.

Apparently, acknowledging corruption and incompetence of dictators ruling over Islamic terrorist enclaves causes some hurt feelings. 












						Palestinian Officials Outraged by Swedish Accusation of Alleged Corruption - The Media Line
					

One of the Palestinian Authority biggest European backers […]




					themedialine.org
				




One of the Palestinian Authority biggest European backers is calling out the PA for widespread corruption. A Swedish radio station quoted its country’s foreign minister as saying that: “The corruption that pervades Palestine is an obstacle to providing economic support.”


----------



## Hollie

Looking a bit deeper into the _NGO's_ Islamic terrorist front groups designated as such by Israel, the high-pitched screeching from the expected sources looks to be so much islamo-whining.












						Israel cracks down on tax-deductible terrorism
					

On Oct. 22, 2021, Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz announced that Jerusalem was designating six Palestinian nongovernmental organizations as terrorist organizations.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




On Oct. 22, 2021, Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz announced that Jerusalem was designating six Palestinian nongovernmental organizations as terrorist organizations.


Gantz’s announcement was decried by Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib, a liberal Democrat, and the usual anti-Israel voices in Congress. It has even been questioned by some Biden administration officials, most notably at the State Department. But the evidence suggests that the designations are justified.

There is a long history of links between shady nonprofit organizations and Palestinian terrorist groups. Gantz asserted that the NGOs in question — Al-Haq, Addameer, Defense for Children International-Palestine, the Bisan Center for Research and Development, the Union of Palestinian Women’s Committees, and the Union of Agricultural Work Committees — have been "active under the cover of civil-society organizations, but in practice belong to and constitute an arm of 'the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).'"


----------



## Hollie

​Delusional Insanity Flows Like Cheap Wine at House Energy Hearing​








						Delusional Insanity Flows Like Cheap Wine at House Energy Hearing
					

You'll be less than shocked to learn the "squad" participated.




					redstate.com
				





By Bonchie | Oct 29, 2021 12:15 PM ET
Share  Tweet











The usual suspects were there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Looking a bit deeper into the _NGO's_ Islamic terrorist front groups designated as such by Israel, the high-pitched screeching from the expected sources looks to be so much islamo-whining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel cracks down on tax-deductible terrorism
> 
> 
> On Oct. 22, 2021, Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz announced that Jerusalem was designating six Palestinian nongovernmental organizations as terrorist organizations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtonexaminer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct. 22, 2021, Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz announced that Jerusalem was designating six Palestinian nongovernmental organizations as terrorist organizations.
> 
> 
> Gantz’s announcement was decried by Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib, a liberal Democrat, and the usual anti-Israel voices in Congress. It has even been questioned by some Biden administration officials, most notably at the State Department. But the evidence suggests that the designations are justified.
> 
> There is a long history of links between shady nonprofit organizations and Palestinian terrorist groups. Gantz asserted that the NGOs in question — Al-Haq, Addameer, Defense for Children International-Palestine, the Bisan Center for Research and Development, the Union of Palestinian Women’s Committees, and the Union of Agricultural Work Committees — have been "active under the cover of civil-society organizations, but in practice belong to and constitute an arm of 'the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).'"


Load of hooey.

This is just part of Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey.
> 
> This is just part of Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign.


Nothing to do with Israel. You just reflexively cut and paste your usual slogans, righf?


----------



## Hollie

And on it goes. Endless international welfare that rewards Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Uh oh. There’s a disagreement taking place in the “country of Pal’istan”  involving those in the province of Abbas’istan vs. those in Gaza’istan.

Let’s hope these fine folks can work out their differences in the spirit of stealing more welfare money.  










						Hamas: PA obstructing Gaza reconstruction
					

The PA insists that its Ramallah-based government be in charge of the reconstruction, including the funds channeled by various countries and international parties.




					m.jpost.com
				





Hamas: PA obstructing Gaza reconstruction​By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
JUNE 27, 2021 17:54






The PA insists that its Ramallah-based government be in charge of the reconstruction, including the funds channeled by various countries and international parties.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Pally terrorists are rockin' the house with a new song. 

They're willing to kill without limit, and willing to slaughter their own children in furtherance of their politico-religious ideology.  













						“Bullets and gunpowder are the source of pride” of the homeland – song on official PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

As an introduction to a report on imprisoned terrorists from the town of Bita, official PA TV played part of a song glorifying the “uprising” for the “homeland” and the use of “bullets and gunpowder” against Israel




					palwatch.org
				




“Bullets and gunpowder are the source of pride” of the homeland – song on official PA TV​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 29, 2021
As an introduction to a report on imprisoned terrorists from the town of Bita, official PA TV played part of a song glorifying the “uprising” for the “homeland” and the use of “bullets and gunpowder” against Israel:









> *Lyrics:* “Your people have risen up, O homeland, risen up
> Your people have risen up, homeland, risen up
> Its bullets and gunpowder are the source of its pride”
> [Official PA TV, _Giants of Endurance_, Oct. 14, 2021]


----------



## Hollie

There is purported to be an “embassy”, apparently something representing the dictatorship of Abbas, in Tunisia.

Just guessing, but this shrine to Mahmoud Abbas likely has working, indoor plumbing and an electrical supply to power lights.

As one might expect, the shrine depicts a map without reference to Israel, just another Arab-Moslem paradise, this one surviving on welfare handouts from the international community.













						New PA embassy in Tunisia displays huge map of “Palestine” erasing Israel | PMW Analysis
					

The message of the map is, of course, that Israel has no right to exist and that the goal of the PA is sovereignty over the entire area.




					www.palwatch.org
				





New PA embassy in Tunisia displays huge map of “Palestine” erasing Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 31, 2021




According to “direct orders and instructions” from PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the PA has established over 100 Palestinian embassies around the world. [Official PA TV News, Oct. 23, 2021]

One such embassy is located in Tunisia. When staff and visitors arrive they are met with a huge monument with the PA’s map of “Palestine” – the version that erases all of Israel:




[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 23, 2021]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There is purported to be an “embassy”, apparently something representing the dictatorship of Abbas, in Tunisia.
> 
> Just guessing, but this shrine to Mahmoud Abbas likely has working, indoor plumbing and an electrical supply to power lights.
> 
> As one might expect, the shrine depicts a map without reference to Israel, just another Arab-Moslem paradise, this one surviving on welfare handouts from the international community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New PA embassy in Tunisia displays huge map of “Palestine” erasing Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The message of the map is, of course, that Israel has no right to exist and that the goal of the PA is sovereignty over the entire area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New PA embassy in Tunisia displays huge map of “Palestine” erasing Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 31, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to “direct orders and instructions” from PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the PA has established over 100 Palestinian embassies around the world. [Official PA TV News, Oct. 23, 2021]
> 
> One such embassy is located in Tunisia. When staff and visitors arrive they are met with a huge monument with the PA’s map of “Palestine” – the version that erases all of Israel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Oct. 23, 2021]


Israel doesn't have borders. How can you put it on a map?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel doesn't have borders. How can you put it on a map?



It has at least a couple more borders than Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel doesn't have borders. How can you put it on a map?


Contrary to what’s taught at your madrassah, ignorance is not a virtue.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *You must think we all have very poor memories.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel doesn't have borders. How can you put it on a map?*


*(COMMENT)
.*
◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •
◈ Golan Heights Law •
◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon* •*

Area "C" and Settlements

5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip, as shown on attached map No. 2.

(8) Further redeployments from Area C and transfer of internal security responsibility to the Palestinian Police in Areas B and C will be carried out in three phases each to take place after an interval of six months, to be completed 18 months after the inauguration of the Council, except for the issues of permanent status negotiations and of Israel's overall responsibility for Israelis and borders.

The territorial jurisdiction of the Council shall encompass Gaza Strip territory, except for the Settlements and the Military Installation Area shown on map No. 2, and West Bank territory, except for Area C which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in three phases, each to take place after an interval of six months, to be completed 18 months after the inauguration of the Council. At this time, the jurisdiction of the Council will cover West Bank and Gaza Strip territory, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations.

Notwithstanding subparagraph a. above, the Council shall have functional jurisdiction in Area C, as detailed in Article IV of Annex III.

c. In Area C, during the first phase of redeployment Israel will transfer to the Council civil powers and responsibilities not relating to territory, as set out in Annex III.

c. "Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.
*.



*
*Most Respectfully,*
*R*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Clarification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *You must think we all have very poor memories.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> .*
> ◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •
> ◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •
> ◈ Golan Heights Law •
> ◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •
> ◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
> ◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon* •*
> 
> Area "C" and Settlements
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip, as shown on attached map No. 2.
> 
> (8) Further redeployments from Area C and transfer of internal security responsibility to the Palestinian Police in Areas B and C will be carried out in three phases each to take place after an interval of six months, to be completed 18 months after the inauguration of the Council, except for the issues of permanent status negotiations and of Israel's overall responsibility for Israelis and borders.
> 
> The territorial jurisdiction of the Council shall encompass Gaza Strip territory, except for the Settlements and the Military Installation Area shown on map No. 2, and West Bank territory, except for Area C which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in three phases, each to take place after an interval of six months, to be completed 18 months after the inauguration of the Council. At this time, the jurisdiction of the Council will cover West Bank and Gaza Strip territory, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations.
> 
> Notwithstanding subparagraph a. above, the Council shall have functional jurisdiction in Area C, as detailed in Article IV of Annex III.
> 
> c. In Area C, during the first phase of redeployment Israel will transfer to the Council civil powers and responsibilities not relating to territory, as set out in Annex III.
> 
> c. "Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.
> *.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Most Respectfully,*
> *R*


There has never been a borfer agreement with Palestine.


----------



## Mindful

According to the ever-reliable Abu Ali Express Telegram Channel, young Gazans began gathering and throwing stones at men in IDF uniforms who were driving Jeeps inside the Gaza Strip. 

There was just one problem: those jeep-driving men in IDF uniforms were Gazan actors filming a movie!









						Gazans Attack Actors Dressed as IDF Soldiers
					

According to the Abu Ali Express Telegram Channel, young Gazans began gathering and throwing stones at men in IDF uniforms




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There has never been a borfer agreement with Palestine.


There is no sovereign entity called 'Pal'istan'.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> There is no sovereign entity called 'Pal'istan'.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OPENING:  I assume you mean a "*Border* Agreement."



P F Tinmore said:


> There has never been a borfer agreement with Palestine.


.*(COMMENT)*

Whatever you mean by the term "Palestine." 

◈   It must have been a "state" at the time other treaties were made.  ​........................                     .............OR​◈  There must have been a case of self-determination on the part of the people of the State.​


			
				OMAR ABUBAKAR BAKHASHAB • Department of Law said:
			
		

> In conformity with the UN Charter and in order to achieve the kind of stability and finality in *international boundary disputes must be **settled peacefully*. Apart from the legitimate exercise of the right of self-defence, the use of force which unfortunately occurs very frequently in boundary disputes, is no longer compatible with modern international law.
> *SOURCE*:  JKAU: Econ. & Adm., Vol. 9, pp. 29-66 (1416 A.H./1996 A.D.) by OMAR ABUBAKAR BAKHASHAB • Department of Law • Faculty of Economics and Administration, King Abdul-Aziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia


The attempt to use the territory over which the Mandate applied is not (and was never intended to be) an international boundary for a "state."  Further attempts to use the demarcations associated with the 1949 Armistice Agreements is (once again) never intended to be an International Boundary agreement.  The International Boundary Agreement associated with West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip can be found in:

◈   Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •​​◈   Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​
In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip and left it to its Right of Self-Determination.  We can all see today the complexion of Arab Palestinian Rule.

As for the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians never liberated the territory (peacefully).  The liberation was when the Israeli Forces acquired the territory from the Jordanians in 1967 and when the Jordanians announce their termination over any territory west of the Jordan River.  In 1995, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) agreed to express consent to be bound by the Oslo Accords.  

In general, the Arab Palestinians protest in armed conflict because they in what they consider injurious treatment, and as being deprived of self-determination and independence (or some other injustice).   The Arab Palestinian claim to be prevented from establishing their sovereignty over the place and time, the people of Palestine want to fashion their national identity. That the Treaty of Lausanne established their nation.  Well, that is simply not accurate (a mistake of fact). Why, because by 1923 the Arab Palestinians had already declined the "third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  And all through the Mandate period over the territory, the British Administration proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency” → which the Arab Palestinian consistently declined.  Then, after the Jewish Agency facilitated the National Council for the Jewish State to establish a provisional Jewish Government over the territory recommended by the UN General Assembly, again rejected the offer of the territory recommended for the new Arab State.  And at that point, the Arab League tried to use force but only managed to secure a part of the territory with they promptly secured for themselves.

The Arab Palestinians did not accept one single avenue of approach to set themselves on course for independence and sovereignty.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Mindful

Before Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in 2007, Palestinian workers inside Israel stood at 120,000.
Tens of thousands of unemployed Palestinians eagerly seek work in Israel amid the high unemployment rates in the Gaza Strip — that reached 48% in the first quarter of 2021 — made worse by the Israeli blockade imposed since 2006 and the Palestinian Authority’s decision to stop hiring Gazans following the internal split in 2007.
In light of the difficult conditions in the besieged enclave, thousands of unemployed Gazans applied for permits to work inside Israel.

Most of these workers do not speak Hebrew, which is not taught in the Palestinian curriculum. The Hebrew language is only taught as an elective course in some Palestinian universities.

 Many Gazans are now seeking to learn Hebrew in specialized language centers in the Strip.
Al-Monitor visited the Nafah Training, Language and Translation Center, which offers Hebrew courses for Gazan workers and merchants taught by Palestinian former prisoners who learned Hebrew while in Israeli jails. 









						Gazans Flocking to Learn Hebrew So They Can Work in Israel
					

Al Monitor reports on how more and more palestinian Arabs from Gaza are learning Hebrew, in the hope of working in Israel




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Clarification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OPENING:  I assume you mean a "*Border* Agreement."
> 
> 
> .*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whatever you mean by the term "Palestine."
> 
> ◈   It must have been a "state" at the time other treaties were made.  ​........................                     .............OR​◈  There must have been a case of self-determination on the part of the people of the State.​
> The attempt to use the territory over which the Mandate applied is not (and was never intended to be) an international boundary for a "state."  Further attempts to use the demarcations associated with the 1949 Armistice Agreements is (once again) never intended to be an International Boundary agreement.  The International Boundary Agreement associated with West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip can be found in:
> 
> ◈   Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •​​◈   Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​
> In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip and left it to its Right of Self-Determination.  We can all see today the complexion of Arab Palestinian Rule.
> 
> As for the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians never liberated the territory (peacefully).  The liberation was when the Israeli Forces acquired the territory from the Jordanians in 1967 and when the Jordanians announce their termination over any territory west of the Jordan River.  In 1995, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) agreed to express consent to be bound by the Oslo Accords.
> 
> In general, the Arab Palestinians protest in armed conflict because they in what they consider injurious treatment, and as being deprived of self-determination and independence (or some other injustice).   The Arab Palestinian claim to be prevented from establishing their sovereignty over the place and time, the people of Palestine want to fashion their national identity. That the Treaty of Lausanne established their nation.  Well, that is simply not accurate (a mistake of fact). Why, because by 1923 the Arab Palestinians had already declined the "third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government."  And all through the Mandate period over the territory, the British Administration proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency” → which the Arab Palestinian consistently declined.  Then, after the Jewish Agency facilitated the National Council for the Jewish State to establish a provisional Jewish Government over the territory recommended by the UN General Assembly, again rejected the offer of the territory recommended for the new Arab State.  And at that point, the Arab League tried to use force but only managed to secure a part of the territory with they promptly secured for themselves.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians did not accept one single avenue of approach to set themselves on course for independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





> In conformity with the UN Charter and in order to achieve the kind of stability and finality in *international boundary disputes must be settled peacefully*.



There is no boundary dispute. None of Palestine's neighbors have disputed their boundaries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The attempt to use the territory over which the Mandate applied is not (and was never intended to be) an international boundary for a "state."


Links?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no boundary dispute. None of Palestine's neighbors have disputed their boundaries.



What boundaries are shared with a "country of Pal'istan"?

Links?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no boundary dispute. None of Palestine's neighbors have disputed their boundaries.


*(SHORT NOTE)*

I'm very very glad to see you agree.

*The Links I gave* you In Post #20994 have the approval of all the adjacent Arab States.  That is, with the possible exception to the Golan Heights.  But even they recognize that they really did not extend their sovereignty over that territory.  They have not really made much of a fuss over it.

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •​◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​◈ Golan Heights Law •​◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •​◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •​




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Clarification
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *(SHORT NOTE)*
> 
> I'm very very glad to see you agree.
> 
> *The Links I gave* you In Post #20994 have the approval of all the adjacent Arab States.  That is, with the possible exception to the Golan Heights.  But even they recognize that they really did not extend their sovereignty over that territory.  They have not really made much of a fuss over it.
> 
> ◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •​◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​◈ Golan Heights Law •​◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •​◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





> 2. *Israel * will  withdraw  all  its  armed  forces  and  civilians  from  the  Sinai behind  the  *international boundary between Egypt  and  mandated  Palestine, * as provided  in  the  annexed  protocol  (Annex  I),  and  Egypt  will  resume  the  exercise of its  full  sovereignty  over  the  Sinai.



The mandate was irrelevant to Palestine's international boundary. The mandate was gone for years. Why was it even mentioned?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Demarcation Line
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> The mandate was irrelevant to Palestine's international boundary. The mandate was gone for years. Why was it even mentioned?


*(COMMENT)*

I take it you do not understand how a Surveyor establishes boundary lines.  Most of the time, the Surveyor stars with a Monument  (A permanently placed survey marker such as a stone shaft sunk into the ground.). I happen to live two blocks from the original National Road (AKA US Route 40). * If you pay close attention You will find this one of these markers*.  I live about 500 yards from one.

When the original borders were surveyed. the put monuments such as these markers periodically along the border. If you look at a map of the Middle East North Africa, you will see there are a lot of straight-line segments.  That is because the British and the French loved to simplify these things and establish a lot of straight-line boundaries (*Boundary *_- a line that marks the limits of an area; a dividing line._) or boundaries that follow a river.

When the Allied Powers said "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;" they were talking about these surveys.  You will notice the frontier boundary between Egypt and Israel →  Rafah-to-Princess Beach → there are many straight-line segments.  That boundary has served many purposes in its time and is still in use today.  It is and will be used again and again as a baseline ("_A line between two points on the earth's surface and the direction and distance between them_").  That line will be used for many decades to come.

Diplomats and politicians use the name and noun nomenclature to these "Lines of Possession and Improvements along the Boundaries" to make it more palatable to a given audience.  While the political and diplomatic name be altered for the name of the line, it does not change (for the most part).




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The mandate was irrelevant to Palestine's international boundary. The mandate was gone for years. Why was it even mentioned?



Rights gained under the mandate don't expire,
they go ad infinitum, it's become international law.

Therefore no Arab sovereignty is legal within those boundaries.


----------



## Sixties Fan

An inveterate rejector of Israel, Erakat reiterated the “dominant Palestinian political and intellectual thinking between 1968 and 1988 that understood Zionist settler colonialism as an eliminatory project that could not be stemmed by partition.”

“Coexistence necessitates decolonization and the dismantlement of Zionist governance in the same way that South Africa and Namibia had successfully dismantled apartheid,” she added. A map of Israel and its neighborhood in her presentation appeared to her as a “map of Palestine,” and she fumed that Israel was “forced upon” Arabs, “in the words of Malcolm X, to create a wedge between the African and the Asian continents.”

The revised 1968 PLO National Charter formed the basis for Erakat’s destructive vision of a “single democratic state” of “all people, irrespective of religion and nationality,” replacing Israel. The Palestine Authority’s deeply Islamist, jihadist character demonstrates that any such Palestinian state would expel its Jewish population. This new “Palestine” would fulfill her call for a “right of return” for millions of descendants of Arab refugees from Israel’s 1948 independence war, upon whom she retroactively projected Palestinian “national aspirations of their own for self-determination.”

(full article online)









						Noura Erakat’s morgue of Palestinian resisters
					

Her pop Marxist dreams of a revolution overthrowing Israel’s “settler-colony” might thrill woke academic audiences in America, but it also can fuel more anarchy.




					www.jns.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> An inveterate rejector of Israel, Erakat reiterated the “dominant Palestinian political and intellectual thinking between 1968 and 1988 that understood Zionist settler colonialism as an eliminatory project that could not be stemmed by partition.”
> 
> “Coexistence necessitates decolonization and the dismantlement of Zionist governance in the same way that South Africa and Namibia had successfully dismantled apartheid,” she added. A map of Israel and its neighborhood in her presentation appeared to her as a “map of Palestine,” and she fumed that Israel was “forced upon” Arabs, “in the words of Malcolm X, to create a wedge between the African and the Asian continents.”
> 
> The revised 1968 PLO National Charter formed the basis for Erakat’s destructive vision of a “single democratic state” of “all people, irrespective of religion and nationality,” replacing Israel. The Palestine Authority’s deeply Islamist, jihadist character demonstrates that any such Palestinian state would expel its Jewish population. This new “Palestine” would fulfill her call for a “right of return” for millions of descendants of Arab refugees from Israel’s 1948 independence war, upon whom she retroactively projected Palestinian “national aspirations of their own for self-determination.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noura Erakat’s morgue of Palestinian resisters
> 
> 
> Her pop Marxist dreams of a revolution overthrowing Israel’s “settler-colony” might thrill woke academic audiences in America, but it also can fuel more anarchy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org


Excellent video. Thanks for the link.









						We Broke a Dam: The Palestinian Intifada of Unity  by Noura Erakat
					

Noura Erakat | We Broke a Dam: The Palestinian Intifada of Unity | October 10, 2021 | University of Toledo- McQuade Law Auditorium  Run Time: 57:00




					www.knowledgestream.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

> An example of how serious the financial situation is: Gas stations in the West Bank city of Bethlehem have refused to service PA cars, including security vehicles, because the government hasn’t paid its bills.
> 
> [T]he lack of progress on the negotiations track with Israel has had a major impact on the PA’s standing locally, regionally and internationally.
> 
> Eighty-three percent of Palestinians believe there is corruption in PA institutions, according to a recent poll by the Ramallah-based Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR).
> 
> According to the London-based, pan-Arab Al-Araby Al-Jadeed newspaper, during a meeting with Palestinian leadership in Ramallah last week, Abbas became furious at the Biden administration, describing US officials as “liars for not keeping the promises they made to us.”
> 
> Those promises include reopening the Palestine Liberation Organization office in Washington, providing financial support to the PA, and reopening the US consulate in East Jerusalem.
> 
> The Palestinians were counting on renewed US support, politically and financially, that would encourage wealthy Arab states to restore their financial support. However, according to the same unnamed source, there is “a clear American truancy about directly returning financial support to the PA, especially as the United States accuses the PA of corruption.”
> 
> “This has affected the Gulf’s response to the requests from the PA,” the source said.



Yet even though this has been in the making for a long time, the Palestinian Authority hasn't changed. 

It has not tackled corruption. It still refuses to talk to Israel. It remains irredeemably antisemitic. It still publicly supports terrorists, paying them salaries and treating them like heroes. It refuses elections. It signs international agreements with no intention of actually following them. It imprisons people whose opinions it doesn't like. It is filled with political cronyism. Above all, it never, ever takes responsibility for its problems.

Instead of looking at its own shortcomings, the PA still takes every opportunity to blame Israel. Even this week, prime minister Shtayyeh spoke at the UN Climate Change conference and claimed that Israel was destroying the environment while the Palestinian Authority was doing wonderful things to save the world. 


(full article online)









						The Palestinian Authority is losing support from all its previous donors - but Abbas never considers that he is doing anything wrong
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Celebrating an anniversary of the Balfour Declaration seemed to be an irritation to the Abbas mini-caliphate. 

Too bad. It could have been an opportunity for Arabs-Moslems to improve themselves. 










						No peace until Israel destroyed! - The PA on the 104th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “The Balfour Promise – a promise from one who has no ownership to one who has no right. Lest we forget!!”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Palestinian Media Watch

No peace until Israel destroyed! - The PA on the 104th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 2, 2021

Fatah: “The Balfour Promise – a promise from one who has no ownership to one who has no right. Lest we forget!!”

In anticipation of today's 104th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, the Palestinian Authority is again confirming its most basic stance: There will be no peace until Israel is destroyed.

Describing the Balfour Declaration as “the most despicable global colonialist plan in history,” a regular columnist in the PA official daily added:

“Today, after 104 years, the world is still incapable of correcting this historical mistake and this severe injustice by putting an end to the colonialist Zionist project… After 104 years the conflict is still continuing, and it will not stop until this promise and its consequences are canceled.”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 28, 2021]

In other words, until the “Zionist project” (i.e., Israel) is “cancelled,” the Palestinian conflict against Israel will continue.

Fatah echoed, this calling for the end of Israel:

Posted text: “104 years since #The_wretched_Balfour_Promise (i.e., Declaration)

The Balfour Promise will remain a living headline for our tragedy that will not end, except with the end of the occupation state – the racist apartheid state”

[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, Nov. 1, 2021]


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

From airline hijackings to international acts of Islamic terrorism to bombings, car rammings, welfare fraud, shootings.... and on it goes.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel’s combined security forces were successful in apprehending an Arab terrorist who committed arson attacks against Jewish targets in the city of Ramla in September, including the burning of holiday sukkahs.

The Shin Bet security service stated Monday that its joint investigation with the police led to the arrest on October 12 of the terrorist Suleiman Kasab, 29, a resident of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip, who was in Israel illegally.

Suleiman entered Israel in January 2020 with a humanitarian permit as an escort for his mother, who was being treated in Judea and Samaria for a serious illness. After chis mother’s treatment was done, Suleiman took advantage of the permit and remained in Israel illegally.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Terrorist Arrested for Sparking Fires in Israel, Planning Attacks | United with Israel
					

The Gaza resident entered Israel in January 2020 with a humanitarian permit as an escort for his mother, who was being treated in Judea and Samaria for a serious illness.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

And yet, for some reason unknown to me, the international community continues to feed the beast. 










						Whitewashing PA terror promotion in the UN Security Council | PMW Analysis
					

In 2018, 2019, and 2020, the PA cumulatively spent no less than 1.85 billion shekels on salaries and allowances to terrorists and their families




					palwatch.org
				




Whitewashing PA terror promotion in the UN Security Council​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 3, 2021
In his quarterly update to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) regarding the implementation of infamous UNSC resolution 2334, the United Nations Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process (UNSCO) Tor Wennesland went out of his way to distort reality, whitewash the Palestinian Authority’s multi-million dollar terror promoting “Pay-for-Slay” policy and ignore PA incitement to violence and terror. In doing so, the UN once again proved its bias against Israel and its acceptance of Palestinian terror targeting Jews.
During his update, Wennesland gave a general overview of every potential - real or alleged - breach of UNSC 2334 allegedly committed by Israel or Jewish Israelis (referred to by Wennesland collectively as “settlers”). However, when it came to the active participation of the PA in inciting, promoting, and rewarding terror, suddenly Wennesland remained completely silent!


----------



## Hollie

​In keeping with the Pally program of youth indoctrination, children were barraged with snappy slogans about 'our Pal'istan''.

Odd because the Egyptian who invented ''Pal'istanians'' understood that those Arabs-Moslens never held sovereignty over lands of the Turkish caliphate.




Children at Gaza Kindergarten Performance Marking 104th Anniversary of the Balfour Declaration​


----------



## Hollie

​Palestinian Authority Mufti expelled from al-Aqsa mosque​


In today's episode of _Mr. Mufti says_, we learn that Mr. Mufti says, ''an angry mob of fist-pumping retrogrades means I better leave before my head is removed from my torso.


----------



## Hollie

In the alternate reality of Pal-Arabism, we find a lovely discussion of gender equality for the Ummah's girls... you know, the warriors in Shame Sacks. 

"Female Martyrs and terrorists are proof of gender equality in Palestinian society"

Yeah. I know. 

It could be a yet undiscovered viral / bacterial infection based disease, or, more likely, a sociopathic condition. I'll go with the latter. 










						Palestinian women honored for role in terror – on national Palestinian Women’s Day | PMW Analysis
					

PA Minister of Women’s Affairs cites female mass murderer and “female Martyrs” as proof of gender equality in Palestinian society




					www.palwatch.org
				





Female Martyrs and terrorists are proof of gender equality in Palestinian society - PA minister of women’s affairs
Official Palestinian Authority TV  | Oct 26, 2021




Official PA TV program Palestine This Morning, on Palestinian Women’s Day


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

(Time to put an end to the PA, bus the Arabs back to Arabia, and finally have peace on the Jewish 
Homeland.  I can dream  )


----------



## Hollie

Some interesting Islamic terrorist news.  The pay scale for becoming a staff killer for the Pally Death Cult can be multiple times more profitable than becoming a professional.











						Palestinian terrorists make more than doctors or teachers
					

All the talk of humanitarian aid can’t disguise the simple fact that the PA relies on foreign aid to provide basic services while it focuses on terrorism and murder.




					www.jns.org
				






“In 2018, the budget of the Palestinian Ministry of Health, which is responsible for the health of 5 million inhabitants, stood at $530 million USD ($111.6 USD per capita per year), while the budget paying beneficiaries of terrorists, which serves 12,200 incarcerated and released prisoners, and 37,500 family members of “martyrs” and wounded terrorists, which constitute a minuscule part of the population, stands at $370 million USD ($8,820 USD per capita per year).”

In other words, the PA budget allocates nearly 80 times more per capita for terrorism than for health.

As far as teachers go, things don’t get much better.

“In comparison to the world average, the income level of a Palestinian terrorist serving 30 years in prison and above is ranked the 18th in the world. He/she earns 4 times the average Palestinian salary and 8 times the average Palestinian minimum wage,” according to the report.

Thus, it continues, “The PA’s policy makes it 5 times more profitable to become a convicted terrorist than a teacher.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 19-year-old won a scholarship to study communications in Turkey, secured all the necessary travel documents and even paid $500 to skip the long lines at the Rafah crossing with Egypt.

But when she arrived at the border on Sept. 21 she was turned back — not by Israel or Egypt, which have imposed a 14-year blockade on the Gaza Strip — but because of a male guardianship law enacted by the Islamic militant group Hamas, which rules the territory.

----
uman Rights Watch, a New York-based group that is deeply critical of the blockade, called on Hamas to lift its restrictions.

“Hamas’s authorities should lift the travel ban on Afaf al-Najar and the Supreme Judicial Council should withdraw its notice so that women in Gaza can travel without discriminatory restrictions,” it said.

After being turned back at the border, al-Najar appealed to a number of local human rights groups but said they appeared reluctant to assist her, fearing reprisal from Hamas. Eventually, she filed a petition against the ban.

(full article online)









						Gaza woman’s plans to study abroad foiled by Hamas ‘guardian’ law
					

Afaf al-Najar was turned away from the Rafah crossing because her estranged father filed a petition to block her from traveling to Turkey to attend university




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Fatah: “The Balfour Promise – a promise from one who has no ownership to one who has no right. Lest we forget!!”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arabs - Moslems. The ones who have no ownership.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally islamists were huffing and puffing, as usual.​







						Hamas Celebrates 20th Anniversary Of Its First Rocket Launch: Our Rockets Will Continue To Terrorize The Enemy, Turn Their 'Plundered' Settlements Into Ghost Towns
					

In a video celebrating the 20th anniversary of the launch of its first rocket, the Qassam, Hamas warns that its rockets ...




					www.memri.org
				


Hamas Celebrates 20th Anniversary Of Its First Rocket Launch:​




However, the incompetent Islamic terrorists have killed boatloads of Pallys.

I suppose ''Allahu akbar'' is in order. 











						How many Gazans were killed by Hamas rockets in May?
					

Hamas aims to take out as many Israeli civilians as possible, but it often misfires—some 680 rockets fell short and fatally landed in Gaza instead.




					www.jns.org
				




As explained below, an analysis of the best information currently available indicates that about 91 Palestinians were probably killed by off-course Palestinian rockets.


----------



## Hollie

''lackeys of Khamenei.''


----------



## Hollie

The flow of welfare to the Pally terrorists has been a primary reason for the continued existence of the various gee-had groups operating in the Islamic terrorist occupied territories. 












						US-designated terror group stops Palestinian fundraising after revenue plummets
					

Interpal’s income was reduced from $7.1 million in 2019 to $2.9 million in 2020, according to UK Lawyers for Israel.The post US-designated terror group stops Palestinian fundraising after revenue plummets




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




A United Kingdom-based charity that is a designated terrorist organization in the United States will cease fundraising for Palestinians after its donation income has taken a hit, according to its 2020 annual report and accounts, published by the U.K.’s Charity Commission.

According to Interpal’s independent auditors, the charity’s bank account was closed last year, and it has been unable to open a new one in light of its U.S. designation as a terrorist organization due to its links to Hamas.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The notion of purging Hamas from the territory they occupy doesn’t address the underlying problem of Islamic ideology. Let's leave aside HAMAS's continuing gee-had attacks aimed at Israeli citizens, their stated determination to destroy Israel and slaughter every Jew therein, their use of tunnel building to attack Israel, their use of human shields intended to be used as propaganda material when Israel retaliates to attacks and their repeated violations of previously agreed-upon cease-fire periods.

leaving aside the above, there is still Fatah which is intent on breeding new generations of sociopathic children. 











						The problem with foreign aid for Gaza
					

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.




					m.jpost.com
				



If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.​​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Oh, no!!!!   A settler colonialist system which denies the "indigenous ARAB Palestinians"  (Wink, wink to Arabs being the key word) written by a Christian Arab who was born in the USA to a Palestinian parent and an American one.

What does he think in general?  Any good thought about Israel?  NO.  Does he like Jews?  Probably not.


Bisharat is a commentator on the Middle East and the legal and human rights aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and his written commentaries have been published in U.S. and international media. He was an critic of Israel's conduct during its 2006 war with Lebanon, and has been a defender of the right of return of Palestinian refugees who were expelled or fled from their homes in 1948 during the creation of the State of Israel.

Bisharat supports the possibility a one-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, and is working on a book addressing the legal aspects of that solution. He supports a boycott of Israel, arguing in a 2007 editorial published by the San Francisco Chronicle that a boycott was "both necessary and justified" by Israel's continued occupation of Palestinian Territories.

Bisharat has argued in the _Wall Street Journal_ and the _New York Times_ that Israel's actions in the 2008–2009 Israel–Palestine conflict over Gaza constitute war crimes.[3][4]





__





						George Bisharat - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





Basically, any Arab has the right of return to Arabia.

Any Jew has the right of return to Ancient Canaan, Judea, Palestine, Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>



Tinmore, don't Christians like Bisharat go to "hell" for telling these many lies and wanting the death of so many people, namely the Jewish People?


----------



## Hollie

Golly, gee. We’re told so often by Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers that 
_this is not a religious conflict_™ when strangely, the Islamic terrorists invoke Islamic sharia.





Mahmoud Habbash, Advisor To Palestinian Authority President Abbas: Shari'a Law Overrides Any International Treaty Or Legislation; Colonial Powers Plotted To Keep Arabs Backward, Fragmented


----------



## Sixties Fan

(It is always all about them, when they do not really care about anyone else  )


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Demarcation Line
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
*
BLUF:*  The IMEU  "20 questions and answers" is essentially just a good attempt at misinformation.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Conflict does NOT imply "parity" of any sort.  Conflict _(in the case of the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict)_ is the engagement of opposing forces.  The is Conflict specifically explained in the ICRC reference: "_How is the Term "Armed Conflict_" as defined in International Humanitarian Law (IHL)?"

The entire idea behind the question about who Palestinians are, it a backhanded attempt at trickery.  Notice that it says " indigenous Arab people of Palestine and their descendants."  Everyone is a descendant from somewhere.  This language is taken from the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instruction (CERI). It is not law.  It is not a binding convention.  It is the manual that is designed for the perpetual generation of Palestinian Refugees; _alla_ the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).

I could go on, but I've read the entire 20 points, and they are all flawed and intentionally misleading the audience - and draw on the emotions of the pro-Palestinian movements.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Those _poor, oppressed Pallys_™  in _the besieged Gaza Strip_™ were still having electrical supply problems in 2020. That bottomless pit of endless pleading for “we can’t because we’re helpless” is rather odd in view of luxury malls and Islamo-mansions.










						Summer 2020: Gaza’s electricity crisis deepens again, with 4 hours of daily supply
					

Providing the population of the Gaza Strip with a 24/7 power supply requires about 600 megawatts of electricity. Yet the Gaza Strip receives only 180 megawatts — 120 directly from Israel via 10 power lines, and 60 generated by Gaza’s power plant with Qatari-funded fuel provided by Israel. As a...




					www.btselem.org
				




Providing the population of the Gaza Strip with a 24/7 power supply requires about 600 megawatts of electricity. Yet the Gaza Strip receives only 180 megawatts — 120 directly from Israel via 10 power lines, and 60 generated by Gaza’s power plant with Qatari-funded fuel provided by Israel. As a result, residents usually receive power in eight-hour rotations: eight hours on and eight hours off. In summer, the power can go off for up to 12 hours.



A matter of priorities, perhaps?











						Palestinian Authority paid terrorists over $150 million in 2020
					

The amount makes up 3.25% of the PA’s budget for last year, and is about NIS 5m. ($1.5m.) less than last year.




					m.jpost.com
				




Palestinian Authority paid terrorists over $150 million in 2020
The amount makes up 3.25% of the PA’s budget for last year, and is about NIS 5m. ($1.5m.) less than last year.​
The Palestinian Authority paid more than NIS 512 million ($157m.) in salaries to incarcerated or released terrorists in 2020, Palestinian Media Watch reported Monday.

The amount constituted 3.25% of the PA’s budget for last year, it said in a report. The PA paid about NIS 517m. to incarcerated or released terrorists in 2019, it said.

The total amount paid to incarcerated or released terrorists in 2020 was more than NIS 512m. because those who had previously been employed by the PA continue receiving their salaries while in prison, according to PA budgetary regulations.

The PA also has a “martyr’s fund” for the families of those killed while committing or attempting acts of terrorism. It includes monthly salaries, free education, insurance, medical care and more.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Residents of the city of Tayibe, a Palestinian city in Israel, protest against an Israeli order to close businesses along a stretch of Route 444 on the pretext that they lack permits, 29 October. The busy road is near the fairly new Jewish settlement of Tzur Yitzhak, which has expanded rapidly on land belonging to Tayibe residents, who have great difficulty securing building permits under Israel’s system of apartheid.

 Heather Sharona Weiss ActiveStills


----------



## Hollie

It really is time to end the existence of an agency that has a history of Islamic terrorist incitement. Pally “refugees” is a slogan that has no meaningful relevance and to expect the international community to offer welfare for an endlessly expanding population of people who want a welfare entitlement is ridiculous











						Palestinian Schools Have a Problem—and Are Running Out of Time
					

The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees has failed to fulfill demands for reform—and may soon face the consequences.




					foreignpolicy.com
				




*The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees has failed to fulfill demands for reform—and may soon face the consequences.*​
Eliminating antisemitism, incitement, and links to terrorism might sound like obvious conditions for a U.N. agency whose slogan is “Peace Starts Here.” But it’s far from clear whether these are conditions—especially as applied to UNRWA’s educational programs—the organization will be able to fulfill.


----------



## Hollie




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## Hollie

Shocking!

Welfare money showered on the Islamic terrorist Pallys used to fund Hamas.







			https://www.thejc.com/news/world/exposed-the-money-trail-that-leads-to-hamas-terror-1.522338
		


Former leading Muslim Brotherhood figure says 'millions of dirhams' of charity funds went to terror groups

A former leading figure in the Muslim Brotherhood has told the JC how large sums raised as charitable donations have gone to fund the militant activities of Hamas and other groups.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Al Hayat Press Agency reports that today, terrorists and their families will be getting their salaries paid by the Palestinian Authority.

There was fear that with the current financial crisis gripping the PA, they would not be able to pay their terrorist population, but those fears were allayed.

Intisar Al-Wazir, head of the Foundation for the Care of the Families of Martyrs and the Wounded, stated that the payments for the families of the "martyrs" and the wounded will be disbursed today, Sunday, in the northern and southern governorates. 

The minister emphasized the keenness of the Palestinian leadership, headed by Mahmoud Abbas, to disburse these allocations despite the financial hardship the Authority is going through.

Abbas has been explicit in saying that these payments to terrorists are his highest budget priority.










						Despite budget crisis, Palestinian terrorists and their families are getting paid today
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority leadership is working to destroy the legacy and heritage of Yasser Arafat, Nasser al-Kidwa, a nephew of the former PLO leader, said on Monday.

In a statement on the occasion of the 17th anniversary of Arafat’s death, Kidwa accused the PA leadership of illegally laying its hands on the Yasser Arafat Foundation, an organization founded in 2008 “to preserve the legacy of the late president and to perpetuate his memory among the Palestinian people and the Arab and friendly peoples.”

Arafat died in a French hospital on November 11, 2004.

(full article online)









						Yasser Arafat’s nephew: PA ‘tearing up’ legacy institution
					

Nasser al-Kidwa, a nephew of the former PLO leader Yasser Arafat, said on Monday that the Palestinian Authority leadership is working to destroy his uncle's legacy and heritage.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( These are probably Hamas supporters )


----------



## Hollie

Proud of the children they raise who strive toward mass murder / suicide as their highest goal. 

I suppose that is the end result of the implementation of a politico-religious ideology that instills hate / self-hate within a cradle to grave program of indoctrination. 

Creating sociopaths,  one generation after another 











						“We are proud of all” the terrorist murderers, says Fatah deputy chairman | PMW Analysis
					

Terrorist responsible for murder of 7 is “a national figure of stature”




					www.palwatch.org
				




We are proud of all” the terrorist murderers, says Fatah deputy chairman

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 9, 2021

Abbas’ Fatah Deputy Chairman on imprisoned terrorist murderers:They “live in the heart, conscience, and awareness of every Palestinian”“Nothing equals [their] value”Terrorist responsible for murder of 7 is “a national figure of stature”PA’s terror mom is “giant of endurance”

While PA and Fatah Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is keen to present himself as “moderate” and “peace-seeking” to the international community, the statements by the person he appointed to be Fatah Deputy Chairman tell a different story.

Fatah’s no. 2, Mahmoud Al-Aloul glorifies terrorists and murderers of Israelis and promotes them as unequalled in “value.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

We've shown before that somehow Israel is guilty of violating every single social justice issue - which is ironic because Israel is in the forefront for fighting for every social justice issue and Palestinians either are apathetic or openly hostile to those same issues.

For climate, Palestinians support burning tires to pollute the air and burning Israeli forests and farms. They waste enormous amounts of water while claiming they don't have enough. 

While Palestinian flags could be seen at the Women's March in Chicago...




...Palestinian government officials have denounced equal rights for women and the right to abortions. 
While pro-LGBTQ marchers protest Israel...





... gays in the Palestinian Authority are in fear for their lives of being "honor killed" or beaten and 93% say society should not accept homosexuality. Sex between men is a crime in Gaza.

While Israel bashers absurdly claim that Israel tries to quash free speech, Palestinian leaders routinely arrest those who say anything they don't like and BDS supporters try to censor any Zionist views on campus.

While people have even tried to link Israel with animal rights issues, Palestinians abuse animals and Israeli police protect them.






It seems pretty clear that the social justice warriors really don't care about these issues, and only use them as an excuse to attack the Jewish state.

And they follow the Palestinian Authority, which joins international forums and treaties on the environment, women's rights as so forth with no intention of applying any of their standards to Palestinian society but to use them as platforms to attack Israel.

The facts are clear. The modern antisemites want to distract everyone from the facts.

(full article online)









						Palestine - a magical place at the center of every "social justice" issue
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Claims of Israel bulldozing Palestinian graves are libel - opinion
					

Twitter was in an uproar after a video was posted of a woman grasping her son's grave as officials try to drag her away.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

I guess the Iranian Mullocrats have every intention of exploiting their occupation army based in Gaza.


----------



## Sixties Fan

( After saying NO since 1920, and using the 3 NOs against creating a Palestinian State along the Jewish State......they are now using  3 NOs to make themselves the victims.  Where does Apartheid exist?
Not in Israel. )

The Palestinian Authority’s prime minister warns that Israel’s refusal to accept a two-state solution will perpetuate a system of “apartheid” and eventually result in a one-state reality in which Israel loses its Jewish character.

At a press conference with foreign reporters, Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh accuses Bennett of “three no’s”: No to meeting with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, no to peace negotiations and no to a Palestinian state.

“If you have three no’s, what are your yes’s?” Shtayyeh asks.

Shtayyeh reiterates the Palestinians’ longstanding demands for a negotiated peace agreement that would create a Palestinian state in East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza. He calls on the United States and the international community to do more to revive the long-dormant peace process.

“If we lose the two-state solution we are slipping into a one-state reality,” Shtayyeh says, echoing remarks made by Abbas at the UN General Assembly in September. “Israel is an apartheid state today and Israel will continue to be tomorrow as well,” he adds. “If they think that we are losing tomorrow, they will be losing after tomorrow.”

(full article online)









						PA’s Shtayyeh says only a two-state solution can end Israeli ‘apartheid’
					

* * *




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The peaceful protests were swiftly and violently crushed by the Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces. Again, those protests and the crackdown did not seem to be of any interest to many in the international community, especially the Western donors that fund the PA. Had the demonstrations taken place against Israel, they would doubtless have received extensive coverage and howls of outrage from the mainstream media in the West.
The protesters have appealed to the European Union for help, to no avail. Attempts by the protesters to gain the attention to their plight from the international media have also been totally ignored. This is the same EU that is quick to criticize Israel over the issue of construction in the settlements....
Abbas's sanctions... have made the civil servants and their families vulnerable to extreme poverty. — Salah Abdel Ati, head of the International Commission to Support the Rights of the Palestinian People, Alwatanvoice.com, November 3, 2021.
According to [Hamed] Abu Wadi, the PA leadership cut off the salaries as a means of silencing and punishing its critics.
"You are the ones who provide aid to the Palestinian Authority, which is depriving us of our salaries and rights in violation of the law." — Hamed Abu Wadi, civil servant affected by Abbas's sanctions, addressing the European Union; Facebook, October 25, 2021.
Palestinian leaders are punishing their own people as part of the power struggle between the PA and Hamas. Again, this is happening as the world turns away from the perpetrators and fixes its obsessive gaze on Israel.
If the Biden administration is serious about reviving a peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, it should start by trying to make peace between the Palestinian mini-state in the Gaza Strip and Abbas's PA entity in the West Bank.
If the EU really cares about ending the suffering of the Palestinians, it first needs to hold Abbas responsible for imposing sanctions on his people and to demand that Hamas cease using the Gaza Strip as a launching pad for waging jihad (holy war) on Israel.

(full article online)









						How Palestinian Leaders Inflict Pain on Their People; EU Shrugs
					

The peaceful protests were swiftly and violently crushed by the Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces. Again, those protests and the crackdown did not seem to be of any interest to many in the international community, especially the Western donors




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Spanish-Palestinian woman pleaded guilty in a military court on Wednesday to embezzling funds from a West Bank charity on behalf of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror group, which Israel recently accused of using six other non-governmental organizations as fronts for its terrorist activities.

Israeli politicians hailed the conviction, believing it justifies a deeply contentious decision by the Defense Ministry and the military to outlaw the six groups, prompting at times harsh international opposition.

Under the deal, Juani Rishmawi admitted to working in the service of a proscribed organization — the PFLP — and illegally bringing money into the West Bank in exchange for a reduced sentence of 13 months in prison and a NIS 50,000 ($16,000) fine. Her sentencing hearing will be held next week.

(full article online)









						Spanish-Palestinian woman pleads guilty to raising PFLP funds through charity
					

Juani Rishmawi admits to defrauding donors on behalf of the terrorist organization for reduced sentence; lawmakers say it's proof PFLP uses humanitarian groups as fronts




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dozens of students attacked each other with beatings, screaming and insults during the ceremony.

The university announced it will close and apologized that exams will be delayed. 

Mainstream Palestinians can't even live with members of their own party, let alone different groups with each other. 

But they want the world to think that they would treat Jews as equals and with full respect under an Arab-majority Palestine. 

(full article and video online)









						Fatah youth at Birzeit University fight each other during Arafat's death commemoration
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

If there was such a rich Palestinian cultural identity, why would it have had to be strengthened? 

Another interviewee noted that Arafat supported disseminating posters with slogans like "Do you belong to the revolution? " and "Join the sons of Palestine!." He said, "Abu Ammar was of the opinion that our conflict is a cultural conflict no less fierce than other fields."

 Arafat didn't support an existing culture - he helped create a culture where none existed before, because he needed to conjure a front for the world of an ancient Palestinian people with long standing ties to the land, even though nearly every prominent Palestinian family proudly trace their origins to the Arabia Gulf.

Further proof that Arafat's interest in culture was only in the context of conflict was that while he was creating a Palestinian culture, he was denying any Jewish history or culture in Israel. He famously told Bill Clinton that if Solomon built a Temple, it was in Nablus, not Jerusalem, and there was no trace of any Jewish presence on the Temple Mount. Since then, Temple denial has been a major feature of Palestinian discourse, with the Palestinian Authority demanding an apology from UN Secretary General for noting that the Jewish Temples existed in Jerusalem. 

If Arafat really cared about culture, he wouldn't need to deny other peoples' cultures.

This article, meant to celebrate Arafat's love of Palestinian culture, actually proves the opposite: he considered culture to be a weapon like any other and his interest in the topic never went beyond how he can use culture as a means to ethnically cleanse Jews from the region.

(full article online)









						To Arafat, Palestinian culture was a weapon to ethnically cleanse Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Felesteen, a Hamas news site, has three articles that blame the current Palestinian leadership, in one way or another, as helping Israel (and the US) assassinate Yasir Arafat.

One article notes that Mahmoud Abbas and Mohammed Dahlan were fighting to become Arafat's successor and therefore one of them must have been involved. It also says that Abbas has the results of an investigation that determined the killers but refuses to release it.

A second article quotes former director of the PA's General Intelligence Service, Fahmi Shabana, as saying that Abbas was involved in the assassination.

A third says that Arafat advisor Bassam Abu Sharif claims that one of the members of the Arafat assassination team escaped with the help of the PA and now lives in the Ukraine in luxury.

It is nearly impossible to find any Palestinian who does not think Arafat was assassinated, despite a Russian study and French report that found no evidence he was poisoned by polonium and numerous debunkings of the Swiss study that suggested it as a possibility.

(full article online)









						Hamas blames Abbas and his men for assassinating Arafat
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA Ministry of Education uses grisly pictures with blood to present Israel as child murderer *​
*PA intensifies message to boycott Israeli goods*​
*PA students have to sign boycott declarations:
“We, the Al-Azwar [Elementary] School for Girls in El-Bireh, in accordance with the school’s initiative, sign on boycotting all the occupation’s products. Thus, we will not buy, trade, sell, or bring them into our school or our home. This is out of a deep belief that boycotting is resistance”*​

(full article online)









						PA to kids: If you buy from Israel you finance your own murder | PMW Analysis
					

PA Ministry of Education uses grisly pictures with blood to present Israel as child murderer




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

There seems to be a certain, oh, I don't know, modesty perhaps, coming from the Abbas mini-caliphate about who is financing death.












						PA to kids: If you buy from Israel you finance your own murder | PMW Analysis
					

PA Ministry of Education uses grisly pictures with blood to present Israel as child murderer




					www.palwatch.org
				




PA to kids: If you buy from Israel you finance your own murder

Itamar Marcus  | Nov 11, 2021

Text: “Beware! Lethal Israeli goods.”

PA Ministry of Education uses grisly pictures with blood to present Israel as child murdererPA intensifies message to boycott Israeli goodsPA students have to sign boycott declarations:
“We, the Al-Azwar [Elementary] School for Girls in El-Bireh, in accordance with the school’s initiative, sign on boycotting all the occupation’s products. Thus, we will not buy, trade, sell, or bring them into our school or our home. This is out of a deep belief that boycotting is resistance”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Haaretz has an article by a gay Palestinian who lives in America, Izat Elamoor. (The article is unclear but he appears to be an Israeli Arab who identifies as Palestinian.)

When he lived in Israel, he tried to get involved with one of the two Palestinian groups that supposedly work towards LGBTQ rights, AlQaws. However, he was turned off - because they spent all of their time blaming every problem on Israel under the guise of "intersectionality:"

----
Once you read between the lines of the article, it is clear is that the primary problem for gays in Palestinian society is Palestinian culture itself that simply does not accept gays and looks upon them as sources of shame. Everything else (like the absurd "pinkwashing" accusation against Israel) doesn't help gays in the least, and indeed ordinary Palestinians don't even know what these terms mean. 

Elamoor doesn't want to upset his intersectional friends nor his Palestinian friends who insist that every single Palestinian problem is somehow the Jews' fault. So he writes things like

-------
He tries to be circumspect, but the reason that this "intersectionality" exists in the Palestinian LGBTQ rights organizations is because Palestinians are raised to blame everything on Israel, even things under their own control. 

So wife-beating is blamed on Israel, obesity is blamed on Israel, animal abuse is blamed on Israel. Of course any lack of gay rights must always be Israel's fault; it is the default position, and the excuses can be made up afterwards easily enough - like "homonationalism." 

Palestinian mentality is that they have no agency and no responsibility, and all of their failures are someone else's fault - Great Britain or the UN or Israel. It avoids them from feeling shame for their own refusal to grow up. This is merely one of many examples. 



(full article online)









						Obsessively blaming Israel for everything hurts Palestinian gays
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Mindful

Palestinian love song.


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## Hollie

The Pally terrorist front group, also known as UNRWA, is facing something of an Islamic terrorist funding shortfall. I would hope this suggests that donors to this welfare fraud syndicate are becoming more knowledgeable about their welfare donations are used. 












						Watchdog Emphasizes Hate Speech in Palestinian Curricula as Refugee Agency UNRWA Faces Donor Cuts
					

View of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) building in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. Photo: Abed …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




As the UN’s Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA faces financial strain following cuts in aid from the UK and other donor nations, an Israel-based watchdog group emphasized US and EU opposition to hate speech and incitement in the agency’s educational materials.

UNRWA head Philippe Lazzarini said that a 50 percent cut in aid from the UK, along with reductions by the Gulf Arab states, have had a devastating effect, according to a Guardian report Friday. “I have nothing in my bank account. I do not know how I will cover the costs and salaries,” he said.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Pally terrorist front group, also known as UNRWA, is facing something of an Islamic terrorist funding shortfall. I would hope this suggests that donors to this welfare fraud syndicate are becoming more knowledgeable about their welfare donations are used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watchdog Emphasizes Hate Speech in Palestinian Curricula as Refugee Agency UNRWA Faces Donor Cuts
> 
> 
> View of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) building in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. Photo: Abed …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the UN’s Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA faces financial strain following cuts in aid from the UK and other donor nations, an Israel-based watchdog group emphasized US and EU opposition to hate speech and incitement in the agency’s educational materials.
> 
> UNRWA head Philippe Lazzarini said that a 50 percent cut in aid from the UK, along with reductions by the Gulf Arab states, have had a devastating effect, according to a Guardian report Friday. “I have nothing in my bank account. I do not know how I will cover the costs and salaries,” he said.


Cool, maybe they can lay off some of those security forces that work for Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool, maybe they can lay off some of those security forces that work for Israel.


Why? Israeli security forces are needed to protect Israeli citizens from Islamic terrorist attacks. Killing Jews is a core precept of your politico-religious ideology. 

If you need help with your understanding of koranology, let me know.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Cool story, Bro.

However, the Israelis have decided that your teaching of the 'true Pally narrative' is about Jew killing and Islamic gee-had. Check your calendar. This is 2021, not 671.













						PA Minister of Education vows not to change terror inciting curriculum: "It is our right to teach our children the true Palestinian narrative” | PMW Translations
					

PA Minister accuses "the occupation state of waging a war against the content in the Palestinian curriculum"




					palwatch.org
				




*PA Minister of Education vows not to change terror inciting curriculum: "It is our right to teach our children the true Palestinian narrative”*​


----------



## Hollie

State of Palestine: Abbas delivers speech marking 17th death anniversary of Yasser Arafat​

Emir Abbas, head Mucky Muck of the “State of Gee-had’istan” (apparently invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne), was commemorating the death of the former Egyptian Emir of Pal’istan, Yassir Arafat. It was Arafat who invented Pal’istanians in the late 1960’s.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: An Offer, but NO Acceptance
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*: Now they will probably get (_virtually_) nothing.



Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian Authority spokesman Nabil Abu Rudaineh: We were offered billions of dollars to accept a Palestinian state with temporary borders, but without Jerusalem. The Palestinian leadership said no.


*(COMMENT)*
.
There is no strong history of the Arab Palestinians working favorably towards just outcome  with the Allied Powers.  That is there was no Cooperation from the Arab Palestinians in the Great War (_WWI_) and not in the Second World War (_WWII_).

There is no reasonable expectation that any real contribution towards peace and regional security will be observed from the Arab Palestinians.  In fact, no Arab Palestinians participation, in any significant way, has resulted in any advancement towards the development since the termination of the British Mandate.

In fact, any hint that a contribution of any kind has come out of the West Bank or Gaza is simply dubious at best. 
.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

It can be mind boggling to read the sums of welfare dollars showered on the Pal-Arabs while coming to a realization that fraud, theft and mismanagement has resulted in enabling Islamic terrorist syndicates to amass incredible wealth. 

From the link: 
''During the eight years of the Obama administration, for example, the United States gave UNRWA over $2 billion. What did the United States get in return for this investment?

According to UNRWA, the number of refugees increased during the Obama years from 4.6 million to 5.3 million – a rise of 700,000 refugees. The $2b. investment by the US did not rehabilitate even one refugee. Instead, every $2,857 corresponded to one new refugee.''

Effectively, US donated welfare dollars served to expand the number of claimed (phony),  ''refugees'', which serves only to perpetuate what appears to be a self-sustaining welfare program that will endlessly create phony ''refugees''. 















						PMW Op-Ed: UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians | PMW Analysis
					

UNRWA still remains possibly the most human rights abusing institution funded by the international community.




					palwatch.org
				




PMW Op-Ed: UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians​Itamar Marcus  | Nov 14, 2021




*UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians*​*UNRWA - possibly the most human rights abusing institution
funded by the international community.*​by Itamar Marcus 
Donor countries will be gathering on Tuesday in Brussels hoping to raise $800 million for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) to run Palestinian refugee camps. But is funding UNRWA a wise investment for the donor countries? And even more important, is funding UNRWA good for the Palestinians?

There has been a lot of negative news about UNRWA. The United States and others are demanding that UNRWA fix its schoolbooks and guarantee that UNRWA schools will no longer hide terror tunnels. Certainly, these demands are valid.

However, what is not being addressed is that even if UNRWA fixed all these problems, UNRWA still remains possibly the most human rights abusing institution funded by the international community.

This year the US has already given UNRWA $318m., and prior to the Trump administration, the US was the largest donor to UNRWA. During the eight years of the Obama administration, for example, the United States gave UNRWA over $2 billion. What did the United States get in return for this investment?
According to UNRWA, the number of refugees increased during the Obama years from 4.6 million to 5.3 million – a rise of 700,000 refugees. The $2b. investment by the US did not rehabilitate even one refugee. Instead, every $2,857 corresponded to one new refugee. When adding in the many billions contributed by other countries, the total waste is enormous. In addition, the core UNRWA budget since Obama’s first year has risen from $545m. to $806m. today. UNRWA is a nursery for growing refugees and a bottomless pit for international money. The fundamental problem with UNRWA is not its terror links; the fundamental problem with UNRWA – is UNRWA itself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It can be mind boggling to read the sums of welfare dollars showered on the Pal-Arabs while coming to a realization that fraud, theft and mismanagement has resulted in enabling Islamic terrorist syndicates to amass incredible wealth.
> 
> From the link:
> ''During the eight years of the Obama administration, for example, the United States gave UNRWA over $2 billion. What did the United States get in return for this investment?
> 
> According to UNRWA, the number of refugees increased during the Obama years from 4.6 million to 5.3 million – a rise of 700,000 refugees. The $2b. investment by the US did not rehabilitate even one refugee. Instead, every $2,857 corresponded to one new refugee.''
> 
> Effectively, US donated welfare dollars served to expand the number of claimed (phony),  ''refugees'', which serves only to perpetuate what appears to be a self-sustaining welfare program that will endlessly create phony ''refugees''.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW Op-Ed: UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> UNRWA still remains possibly the most human rights abusing institution funded by the international community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW Op-Ed: UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians​Itamar Marcus  | Nov 14, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians*​*UNRWA - possibly the most human rights abusing institution*​*funded by the international community.*​by Itamar Marcus
> Donor countries will be gathering on Tuesday in Brussels hoping to raise $800 million for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) to run Palestinian refugee camps. But is funding UNRWA a wise investment for the donor countries? And even more important, is funding UNRWA good for the Palestinians?
> 
> There has been a lot of negative news about UNRWA. The United States and others are demanding that UNRWA fix its schoolbooks and guarantee that UNRWA schools will no longer hide terror tunnels. Certainly, these demands are valid.
> 
> However, what is not being addressed is that even if UNRWA fixed all these problems, UNRWA still remains possibly the most human rights abusing institution funded by the international community.
> 
> This year the US has already given UNRWA $318m., and prior to the Trump administration, the US was the largest donor to UNRWA. During the eight years of the Obama administration, for example, the United States gave UNRWA over $2 billion. What did the United States get in return for this investment?
> According to UNRWA, the number of refugees increased during the Obama years from 4.6 million to 5.3 million – a rise of 700,000 refugees. The $2b. investment by the US did not rehabilitate even one refugee. Instead, every $2,857 corresponded to one new refugee. When adding in the many billions contributed by other countries, the total waste is enormous. In addition, the core UNRWA budget since Obama’s first year has risen from $545m. to $806m. today. UNRWA is a nursery for growing refugees and a bottomless pit for international money. The fundamental problem with UNRWA is not its terror links; the fundamental problem with UNRWA – is UNRWA itself.


Let the refugees return home.

Problem solved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Let the refugees return home.
> 
> Problem solved.


What “refugees”? Most of the Islamic welfare recipients are not “refugees”.


----------



## Hollie

Both of the islamic terrorist franchises, Hamas and Fatah, use hero worship of the very people who exploit them as role models for the next generation of sociopaths they groom. Children are the most susceptible to politico-religious indoctrination and the Pal-Arabs have  a dedicated, UN sponsored islamic terrorist welfare funding organization to supply the money. 











						Arafat’s role-modeling of 14-year-old “Martyr” remains central to PA ideology | PMW Analysis
					

PA continues to glorify the 14-year-old’s Martyrdom “fighting” Israel




					www.palwatch.org
				




Arafat’s role-modeling of 14-year-old “Martyr” remains central to PA ideology

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 15, 2021

2002 and 2003:Arafat taught “children of Palestine” that 14-year-old child Martyr was their role model:
“We salute the spirit of our heroic Martyr, Faris Ouda!”  2021A continues to glorify the 14-year-old’s Martyrdom “fighting” Israel

At the beginning of the PA’s 5-year terror campaign, the second Intifada (2000-2005), 14-year-old Faris Ouda died as a “Martyr” when he participated in violent confrontations with the Israeli army. After his death, the family and the PA publicized that Faris had deliberately sought Martyrdom and even created his own memorial in advance:

“The morning [he died], Faris went out early from his home carrying a slingshot in his hand after preparing for himself a wreath of flowers, decorating it with his picture, and writing by hand: ‘Heroic Martyr Faris Ouda.’”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 30, 2000]


----------



## Hollie

An Egyptian who is often credited with inventing "Palestinians" and with stealing ruthlessly from them is still quite the popular islamic terrorist role model. Arafat even has a Pal Authority controlled "foundation" dedicated to preserve his history of Islamic terrorism and thievery from the Pal'istanians. 













						Palestinian Authority Rewards Antisemitic Rioters with US-Funded $25K Arafat Prize
					

PLO leader leader Yasser Arafat. Photo: World Economic Forum. The Palestinian Authority (PA)-controlled Yasser Arafat Foundation — during a ceremony …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Palestinian Authority Rewards Antisemitic Rioters with US-Funded $25K Arafat Prize


PLO leader leader Yasser Arafat. Photo: World Economic Forum.

The Palestinian Authority (PA)-controlled Yasser Arafat Foundation — during a ceremony at the Ramallah Cultural Palace — presented its annual prize to the West Bank village of Beita.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Referring to the lavish lifestyle led by most Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip and abroad, many Palestinians complained that while the fish are eating the poor emigrants, Hamas leaders continue to enjoy the best fish and seafood on offer in Qatar and the Gaza Strip.
Apparently, the two million Palestinians living under the rule of Hamas have reached the conclusion that it is Hamas, and not Israel, that is responsible for their misery.
"During the past 15 years, Hamas has taken Gaza from bad to worse. Gazans are a people under a brutal Islamist regime who are held hostage to stagnant policies that only serve the interests of Hamas and their global Islamist allies. If the international community could help liberate Gaza from such forces, they could help Gazans create a Dubai on the Med or a new Singapore." — Ghanem Nusseibeh, a Palestinian Muslim belonging to the oldest Arab family in Jerusalem, Al-Arab News, May 29, 2021.
Blaming Israel for everything wrong in the Gaza Strip may fool many in the US, Canada and the UK. But the Palestinians fleeing Gaza and their families who remain behind know the truth -- that it is Hamas that has brought them to the abyss, including the sea in which they are now drowning.

(full article online)









						Why Palestinians Are Fleeing the Gaza Strip
					

Referring to the lavish lifestyle led by most Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip and abroad, many Palestinians complained that while the fish are eating the poor emigrants, Hamas leaders continue to enjoy the best fish and seafood on offer in Qatar and




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Senior Hamas official Khalil Al-Hayya said in a November 8, 2021 interview on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) that Hamas holds four Israelis, and that Hamas would be willing to trade each of them for the release of over 1,000 Palestinian prisoners. He explained that this is the “natural threshold” for prisoner swaps that was established with the 2011 release of captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. He said: “If the occupation pays the price, we are ready to sign [a deal] tomorrow morning. Otherwise, they will not see the light of day.” Al-Hayya confirmed that at least two of the Israeli captives are soldiers, and declined to state whether the four Israelis are alive or not. Later in the interview, Al-Hayya said that Hamas is proud and open about its relationship with Iran, which he said supports Hamas militarily, politically, materially, and otherwise. Referring to the Iranians as “brothers,” he said that Hamas does not concern itself with Iran’s affairs in Iraq or elsewhere.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The incident was tremendously emotive. Despite the IDF’s closure of the Gaza Strip, Harvard-educated, Dr. Abuelaish had permission to enter Israel to work at the Soroka Medical Center in Beersheva and Tel Aviv’s Sheba Medical Center. He was a symbol of coexistence.

The tragedy was even more shocking because he was on the phone live with Israel’s Channel 10 News when his home was hit.

After the war, Abuelaish moved to Canada and is Associate Professor of Global Health at University of Toronto. Now 66, he is pursuing justice.

It also appears, however, that Abuelaish, known as a peace activist, whitewashes Palestinian terror. In his book titled I Shall Not Hate, he writes, “The acts of violence committed by the Palestinians are expressions of the frustration and rage of a people who feel impotent and hopeless.”

“The occupation and oppression of the people in Gaza is like a cancer, a disease that needs to be treated,” he adds.

Regarding his childhood and desire for peace, he explains, “I was born in the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza in 1955, the oldest of six brothers and three sisters, and our lives were never easy. But even as a child I always had hope for a better tomorrow.”

This, of course, was when Gaza was under Egyptian rule.

Abuelaish, nevertheless, suffered a terrible tragedy and he deserves justice. But he’s going about it the wrong way for five reasons.

1. Abuelaish’s building was a source of Palestinian sniper fire.

2. The IDF warns Gaza civilians to leave their buildings before they are struck. Abuelaish and the IDF dispute whether he was warned. Hamas has sometimes told Palestinians to disregard the IDF warnings as psychological warfare.

(full article online)









						Father of Hamas ‘Human Shield’ Victims Demands Money and Apology – From Israel! | United with Israel
					

Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, known as a peace activist, deserves justice, but he's going about it the wrong way.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

So, innocent victim or terrorist?

Luckily, we have Islamic Jihad to tell us the answer:














						Another "innocent" Palestinian victim
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

> “The truth is that this embassy [in Tunis] was born from the Palestinian-Tunisian collaboration, and according to *direct orders* and instructions from His Honor [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas that we have headquarters for the *State of Palestine’s embassies* in the various world states and that they be *owned by the Palestinian people*… Also, it is true that the effort building this embassy is… part of a comprehensive effort that President Mahmoud Abbas has made to ensure for us *ownership over embassies worldwide*. Today we the State of Palestine has more than *100 embassies* and ambassador residences, some of which contain residences for employees. This exists around the entire world and in various states in the world, and this [happened] during the years that have passed... These headquarters, embassies, ambassador residences, employee residences, and all these buildings that have *come under the ownership of the State of Palestine* are a national treasure for the Palestinian people, and certainly this treasure is the property of the Palestinian people… It is the Palestinian people’s right to be proud of this great achievement, which was realized as a result of great effort and attention by His Honor the President and was *carried out by the Palestine National Fund*.”
> [Official PA TV News, Oct. 23, 2021]


Even though Assaf claims that the properties purchased are “owned by the Palestinian people… under the ownership of the State of Palestine,” this does not seem to be the case.

According to the financial reports published by the PA, from 2011 through August 2021, the PA expenditure on its “Ministry of Foreign Affairs” and “Embassies” totaled 2,815,958,000 shekels ($906,158,107 / €783,332,906).

While the purchase of “more than 100 embassies,” homes for ambassadors and residences for employees would ostensibly have been a substantial development expense, the reported “development expenditure,” of the PA Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Embassies for the same 10-year period totaled only 25,109,000 shekels ($8,085,971 / €6,978,898). In fact, according to the PA reports, the last time the PA “Embassies” reported any capital development was in 2011. That reported figure - 13,662,000 shekels - accounts for more than 54% of the reported development expenditure of both the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Embassies for the entire decade.

According to its website, the “Mission of the State of Palestine” in Ireland is located in Dublin at 8 Leeson Street Upper. An extract from the Irish land registry shows that the property that houses the embassy was purchased in 2016 for €1,200,000. While the registry does not show who owns the property, news reports at the time confirm that that the property was purchased by “The Palestinian Mission to Ireland.”

So where did the money come from?

The PA financial documents show that during the same 10-year period (2011 – 2021), the PA transferred 6,189,394,000 shekels ($1,993,743,068 / €1,721,387,796) to the “PLO Institutions.”

While PMW has already proved that much of the money transferred by the PA to the PLO was used to fund the PA’s monthly salary payments to terrorist prisoners and released terrorists, the PA’s financial reports also show that during the relevant 10-year period, the “PLO institutions” spent 158,876,000 shekels ($50,873,874 / €44,392,704) on “development expenditure.”

As Assaf commented, the purchase of the embassies was “carried out by the Palestine National Fund.” The Palestine National Fund is the financial wing of the PLO.

In other words, while the PA has been begging and receiving hundreds of millions of dollars/euros from donor countries to run the PA, in fact it would seem that large amounts have gone to the PLO to fund the purchase of the embassies. While the properties are meant to be the under the *ownership of the PA*, in fact, it would appear that the properties are actually owned by the PLO.

Indeed, the UK land registry shows, for example, that on April 28, 2011, the building that hosts the PA mission in the UK was purchased *with ownership registered in the name of the PLO*.

(full article online)









						Building a PLO real estate empire while simultaneously begging for aid | PMW Analysis
					

While the PA, headed by Mahmoud Abbas, is begging for aid, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), also headed by Abbas and funded by the PA, is building a multi-million dollar international real estate portfolio




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist attempt to re-live those bygone days of gee-had conquest. 











						Hamas Military Exhibition Showcases Weapons, Allows Children, Students To Simulate Liberating The Al-Aqsa Mosque, Attack Israeli Settlements With Drones
					

On November 14-15, 2021, Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar), the A24 News Agency YouTube channel, and the Al-Resalah YouTube cha...




					www.memri.org
				




On November 14-15, 2021, Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar), the A24 News Agency YouTube channel, and the Al-Resalah YouTube channel aired reports about a military exhibition titled “Generation of Jerusalem,” held in Gaza by Hamas and its student wing, the Islamic Bloc. The exhibition allows teens, students, and the general public to see a wide array of Hamas weapons and to simulate the liberation of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Senior Hamas official Ismail Radwan said in an interview that the event commemorates the “martyrdom” of Ahmad Jaabari, a top Hamas military commander who was killed by Israeli forces on November 14, 2012.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally terrorists may run into a bit of difficulty begging the international community for welfare money. 

After decades of failed gee-had attacks (and after centuries of failed Islamic gee-had war and conquest), the Pallys still see sacrificing their children as the way to fulfill the writ of their politico-religious ideology… and to fleece the international community for boatloads of welfare money. 











						PMW releases new report in Norwegian Parliament on PA/Fatah child education | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah is educating children ages 6-15 to seek Israel's destruction




					www.palwatch.org
				





PMW releases new report in Norwegian Parliament on PA/Fatah child education​Nov 17, 2021
_Fatah is educating children ages 6-15
to seek Israel's destruction _​_Click here to read the full report as a PDF_
Today, as donor countries meet in Oslo to raise money for the Palestinian Authority, Palestinian Media Watch’s new report on PA/Fatah education of young Palestinian children will be released in Oslo to members of Norwegian Parliament by PMW Director Itamar Marcus.

Far from preparing its people for a future alongside Israel, the PA/Fatah is educating its children that Israelis are colonialist invaders, that Israel has no right to exist, and that Israel’s replacement by Palestine is inevitable. Terror and murder are glorified, and Martyrdom is presented as an ideal.
These are the clear messages documented in the new PMW report, which examines Fatah’s education of children ages 6-15 through its _Waed_ magazine.

Below is the executive summary and introduction to the report:
_The PA/Fatah Vision for Israel's Destruction
A study of Fatah’s _*Waed*_ magazine
for children ages 6-15_​_Click here to read the full report as a PDF_


----------



## Hollie

So-called NGO's have been a cash cow for the Pally terrorist franchises. Such is the reason for their screeching about greater focus on their activities 











						Willful Blindness on the Palestinian NGO Terror Connection
					

The NGO industry has a great deal to lose if the Israeli government convinces officials and the wider public in these countries to take the links to terror seriously.




					jewishjournal.com
				






Willful Blindness on the Palestinian NGO Terror Connection
The NGO industry has a great deal to lose if the Israeli government convinces officials and the wider public in these countries to take the links to terror seriously.

By
Gerald M. Steinberg
November 10, 2021



Apparently, the Israeli Ministry of Defense (MoD)’s designation of six Palestinian NGOs (non-governmental organizations) as terror fronts is among the most pressing dangers to international security and stability, at least according the European members of the UN Security Council. Iran’s illicit nuclear program, China’s threats to invade Taiwan, and Putin’s threat to Ukraine are nothing in comparison to the Israeli findings that NGOs, exploiting the facades of human rights and civil society, have links to terror. In the UN, diplomats from France, Ireland and Norway, among others, made criticism of this Israeli policy a top priority—in part reflecting their own (unstated) roles as key donors to some of these groups.

This and similar moves are part of the general panic within the NGO industry, which has a great deal to lose if the Israeli government convinces officials and the wider public in these countries to take the links to terror seriously. The Palestinian NGOs are at core of a powerful and unregulated lobby that receives tens of millions of euros from European governments annually to vilify Israel, and the allegations regarding the role of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) have repercussions for the entire network. (The PFLP is listed as a terror organization by Israel, the U.S., European Union, Canada and Australia.) If the U.S. and key European governments agree that Al Haq, Defense for Children International-Palestine (DCIP), and the others are fronts for murderers, the credibility and financial support for NGO allies with whom they work on their campaigns of demonization (particularly the New Israel Fund network of NGOs) would also feel the heat.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose when islamic terrorists are on a gee-had mission to indoctrinate their children with self-hate for their failures, it has to be  a top to bottom,  life defining effort.










						Palestinian school magazine calls for ‘armed struggle’ against Israel
					

A Palestinian school magazine includes references to “the giant Israeli murder machine” and “the Israeli monster,” and accuses Israel of behaving like Nazis.




					m.jpost.com
				




Demonization of Israel and incitement to violence are rampant in Waed, a magazine published by Fatah’s youth movement and distributed in Palestinian Authority schools, a new study by Palestinian Media Watch found.


----------



## Hollie




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

Gee, whiz. It’s claimed that most of the 1.8 million living in Gaza are “refugees” living in poverty. You would think that the UN might step in and develop a welfare program…. or something.

Strange how “refugees” shop in luxury malls. 










						The corruption at the head of Hamas
					

As Gazans suffer poverty and war, Khaled Mashaal and Ismail Haniyeh build their wealth.




					m.jpost.com
				




1.8 million people live in the Gaza Strip, most of them refugees. They endure an unemployment rate that reaches 40%, shameful poverty, rock bottom wages, and, to top it all, an apparently corrupt regime, with an extreme political ideology, that finds it convenient to perpetuate poverty.


----------



## Hollie

Some common sense actions to go after the money that fuels Islamic terrorism.











						Bipartisan lawmakers endorse bill to thwart funding Hamas via cryptocurrency
					

The effort was led by Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.) and Rep. Van Taylor (R-Texas), who brought the legislation for endorsement, garnering support from 75 percent of the members.The post Bipartisan




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				





A bill aimed to cut off funding of the Hamas terror group that rules the Gaza Strip was endorsed on Wednesday by the bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus.

The Hamas International Financing Prevention Act would create sanctions against foreign individuals, organizations and governments that assist Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) or their affiliates.


----------



## Hollie

Not sure why it took the Brits so long. 











						Britain outlaws Palestinian militant group Hamas -interior minister
					

Britain's interior minister Priti Patel on Friday said she had banned the Palestinian militant group Hamas in a move that brings the UK's stance on Gaza's rulers in line with the United States and the European Union.




					www.reuters.com
				




JERUSALEM, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Britain will proscribe Palestinian militant group Hamas as a terrorist organisation, its interior ministry said on Friday, a move that would bring its position on Gaza's rulers in line with the United States and EU.


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## Sixties Fan

“This is an important step, especially for the Jewish community. Hamas is fundamentally and rabidly antisemitic.

“Antisemitism is an enduring evil which I will never tolerate. Jewish people routinely feel unsafe – at school, in the streets, when they worship, in their homes, and online.

“This step will strengthen the case against anyone who waves a Hamas flag in the United Kingdom, an act that is bound to make Jewish people feel unsafe.

“Anyone who supports or invites support for a proscribed organisation is breaking the law. That now includes Hamas in whatever form it takes.”

Hamas' reaction to this proves that she is right.

Hamas announced that this decision to ban the organization is in support of the aggressors at the expense of the victims. In a statement, it said, 




> Unfortunately, the UK continues with its aggression against the Palestinian people. The UK government should have apologised for its historic sin against the Palestinian people in the shameless Balfour Declaration and the British mandate that handed Palestine to the Israeli occupation. Now, the UK government sides with the aggressor against the victim.
> 
> We believe that resisting the Israeli occupation with all means possible, including armed resistance, is a guaranteed right for peoples under occupation as per international law.




Meaning, targeting and killing Israeli and Zionist Jews is a right, not an act of terror. 

Hamas itself didn't try to make a distinction between its armed wing and military wing in its statement. The statement defending terror was issued by its political organization, not the Qassam Brigades. It is the political organization that is energetically defending terror, proving Patel's statement to be entirely correct.

Australia, New Zealand and Paraguay still make this artificial distinction between Hamas' military and political wings. They should look closely at Hamas' statement and follow the British lead.

(full article online)









						Hamas to UK: "What do you mean we are terrorists? Attacking Jews is legal!"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “This is an important step, especially for the Jewish community. Hamas is fundamentally and rabidly antisemitic.
> 
> “Antisemitism is an enduring evil which I will never tolerate. Jewish people routinely feel unsafe – at school, in the streets, when they worship, in their homes, and online.
> 
> “This step will strengthen the case against anyone who waves a Hamas flag in the United Kingdom, an act that is bound to make Jewish people feel unsafe.
> 
> “Anyone who supports or invites support for a proscribed organisation is breaking the law. That now includes Hamas in whatever form it takes.”
> 
> Hamas' reaction to this proves that she is right.
> 
> Hamas announced that this decision to ban the organization is in support of the aggressors at the expense of the victims. In a statement, it said,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning, targeting and killing Israeli and Zionist Jews is a right, not an act of terror.
> 
> Hamas itself didn't try to make a distinction between its armed wing and military wing in its statement. The statement defending terror was issued by its political organization, not the Qassam Brigades. It is the political organization that is energetically defending terror, proving Patel's statement to be entirely correct.
> 
> Australia, New Zealand and Paraguay still make this artificial distinction between Hamas' military and political wings. They should look closely at Hamas' statement and follow the British lead.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas to UK: "What do you mean we are terrorists? Attacking Jews is legal!"
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


They are all colonial settlers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> They are all colonial settlers.


You don't understand the terms you use.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorists occupying Gaza are a bit miffed. 










						Hamas reacts with fury as Britain moves to ban group
					

UK Home Secretary Priti Patel is pushing to ban the Palestinian movement under the Terrorism Act.




					www.google.com
				




Hamas has condemned a move by Britain towards banning the group as a terrorist organisation which could see supporters of the Palestinian movement face up to 14 years in prison.

Home Secretary Priti Patel, who will push for the ban in Parliament next week, argued on Friday that it was not possible to distinguish between Hamas’s political and military wings. She called Hamas “fundamentally and rabidly anti-Semitic”, adding the proscription was required to protect the Jewish community.






It may be appropriate to have the UN get involved.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> You don't understand the terms you use.


Settler colonialism is a *form of colonialism* that seeks to replace the original population of the colonized territory with a new society of settlers. As with all forms of colonialism, it is based on exogenous domination, typically organized or supported by an imperial authority.



			https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=colonial+settlers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> You don't understand the terms you use.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Settler colonialism is a *form of colonialism* that seeks to replace the original population of the colonized territory with a new society of settlers. As with all forms of colonialism, it is based on exogenous domination, typically organized or supported by an imperial authority.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=colonial+settlers



Sounds awful!!!!

How many Arabs in Israel on day one, how many today?


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## P F Tinmore




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## Sixties Fan

Report: The PA Uses Alternative Land Registry to Claim Half of Judea and Samaria
					

Showing far more resilience and decisiveness than his lethargic Israeli officials, Sharaka has recently obtained the Turkish Kushan-land ownership archive.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

39 Palestinians seeking asylum stranded in Barcelona airport
					

Spanish authorities processing the group's requests, after they refused to get back on a flight heading to South America




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Is there really any question about why the Pally Islamic terrorists have a single minded focus on Jew killing? They're willing to kill without limit, and willing to slaughter their own children in furtherance of their politico-religious ideology.










						Why the Palestinian Authority Won’t Fight Terrorists
					

A member of the Palestinian Authority (PA)  security forces gestures as he speaks with a truck occupant at a checkpoint …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




NS.org – The Israeli army last week carried out an anti-terrorism training exercise. It wasn’t exactly headline news; the army does that sort of thing all the time. It’s part and parcel of being surrounded by enemies who want to kill you


How is that possible? Jewish State Department officials keep telling us that most Palestinian Arabs are moderate and peaceful. The masses supposedly are against terrorism. Yet the Israeli authorities expect that these “moderate” Arabs will serve as hosts for hostage-takers and will carry out murderous mob violence against any Israelis who try to intervene.

I wonder if that might have anything to do with the PA using its media and schools to raise an entire generation of young Arabs to hate Jews and glorify anti-Jewish violence.

According to the Oslo agreement, the PA security forces are required to disband terrorist groups, seize their weapons, arrest the terrorists and extradite them to Israel for prosecution. They haven’t done any of that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Any tweets about the Pally terrorists using US supplied welfare money to finance the gee-had?


----------



## Hollie

We’re not in _Kansas_ the Islamic welfare fraud anymore.











						Ethics Committee orders Tlaib to refund campaign $10,800 for salary payments
					

The House Ethics Committee is directing Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) to reimburse her campaign $10,800 after concluding she improperly received salary payments in late 2018 when she was no longer a candidate.




					thehill.com
				










The House Ethics Committee is directing Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) to reimburse her campaign $10,800 after concluding she improperly received salary payments in late 2018 when she was no longer a candidate.


----------



## Hollie

Really disturbing when a pally school magazine calls for 'armed struggle'. Although, this is just more of the same from Islamic terrorist sociopaths who want to implant their sociopathy on children.

It's curious that the Arabs-Moslems who occupied lands formerly controlled by the Ottonan Turks have decided that occupation means ownership. 










						JPost on PMW report: Palestinian school magazine calls for ‘armed struggle’ against ‘Israeli monster’ | PMW Analysis
					

A Palestinian school magazine includes references to “the giant Israeli murder machine” and “the Israeli monster,” and accuses Israel of behaving like Nazis.




					palwatch.org
				




JPost on PMW report: Palestinian school magazine calls for ‘armed struggle’ against ‘Israeli monster’​Lahav Harkov  | Nov 19, 2021




*A Palestinian school magazine includes references to “the giant Israeli murder machine” and “the Israeli monster,” and accuses Israel of behaving like Nazis.*​The magazines include references to “the giant Israeli murder machine” and “the Israeli monster,” and accuse Israel of behaving like Nazis.

_Waed_ claims Palestinians have a “right to wage an armed struggle to take back its stolen homeland,” and “the liberation of Palestine will only be achieved through armed struggle


----------



## Hollie

''why the palestinian authority wont fight terrorists''

I thought the title of the linked article was particularly odd. Given the financial rewards reaped by the Islamic terrorist franchises of Fatah and Hamas, there is every incentive for both franchises to maintain the status quo. Islamic terrorism as implemented by Fatah and Hamas being a coordinated, centralized threat, the counter should be a coordinated, centralized defense and an armed populace to defend themselves against the ever-present threat.











						Why the Palestinian Authority Won’t Fight Terrorists
					

A member of the Palestinian Authority (PA)  security forces gestures as he speaks with a truck occupant at a checkpoint …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




J_NS.org_ – The Israeli army last week carried out an anti-terrorism training exercise. It wasn’t exactly headline news; the army does that sort of thing all the time. It’s part and parcel of being surrounded by enemies who want to kill you.

What caught my eye about this particular exercise, however, was that it consisted of a simulated kidnapping of Israelis by Palestinian Arab terrorists in Judea and Samaria


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> It's curious that the Arabs-Moslems who occupied lands formerly controlled by the Ottonan Turks have decided that occupation means ownership.



If your landlord dies, you don't automatically own the building?


----------



## Hollie

Weekend at _Bernie's_ Yasser's? Lets hope the pallys don't dig him up, duct tape him to a throne and parade him around Gaza.

The hero worship surrounding an Egyptian who ruthlessly stole from and exploited the ''pal'istanians'' he invented goes way, way beyond understandable.












						Palestine marks 17th anniversary of Yasser Arafat death
					

Former Palestinian Authority (PA) president and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) leader Yasser Arafat died in a Paris




					thegazapost.com
				




Despite his death 17 years ago, Arafat's influence lives on in Palestine, particularly among his Fatah organisation, which has been damaged by internal disputes and the leadership style of current PA President Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Keyboard “revolutionaries” are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. “Pallys are furious”.

I suppose the reasonable thing to do would be gather up their supply of _Hamas summer gee-had camp attendees_ disposable children and have them riot at the Israeli border.












						Hamas reacts with fury as Britain moves to ban group
					

UK Home Secretary Priti Patel is pushing to ban the Palestinian movement under the Terrorism Act.




					www.aljazeera.com
				



Hamas reacts with fury as Britain moves to ban group​
Hamas has condemned a move by Britain towards banning the group as a terrorist organisation which could see supporters of the Palestinian movement face up to 14 years in prison.


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The above is just your usual tactic of cutting and pasting photos and youtube videos, no context, out of context and meaningless images of Islamic rage boy wannabes.


----------



## Hollie

One would like to believe that the international community will eventually choose to halt welfare donations to what has become an Islamic terrorist endowment, ie. UNRWA, but we're clearly not there yet.


----------



## Hollie

Just say “duh”.











						‘Oh, I Know’: Rep. Tlaib Brushes Off Human Traffickers Being Released In Prison Reform Bill
					

Rep. Rashida Tlaib brushed off the potential for human traffickers and other dangerous criminals to be released from prison as a result of a bill she endorsed.




					dailycaller.com
				




Democratic Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib brushed off questions related to the potential for human traffickers and other dangerous criminals to be released from prison as a result of a bill she endorsed in an interview released Sunday


‘Oh, I Know’: Rep. Tlaib Brushes Off Human Traffickers Being Released In Prison Reform Bill​




Tliab Axios
Screenshot / Twitter / Axios

Democratic Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib brushed off questions related to the potential for human traffickers and other dangerous criminals to be released from prison as a result of a bill she endorsed in an interview released Sunday.


----------



## Hollie

Interesting societal dynamic when the murderous Hamas terrorists are the the society’s religious leaders / whacked out sociopaths. 












						Hamas Gunman Sheikh Fadi Abu Shkhaydam, Who Killed One And Wounded Four In Jerusalem Terror Attack, Said In 2020 Friday Sermon: Jewish And Christian 'Masters Of Heresy,' Women Who Abandon Modesty, Are Leaders of Injustice, Led By The Devil (Archival)
					

Palestinian cleric Sheikh Fadi Abu Shkhaydam, the Hamas gunman who killed one Israeli and wounded four in a November 21,...




					www.memri.org
				





Hamas Gunman Sheikh Fadi Abu Shkhaydam, Who Killed One And Wounded Four In Jerusalem Terror Attack, Said In 2020 Friday Sermon: Jewish And Christian 'Masters Of Heresy,' Women Who Abandon Modesty, Are Leaders of Injustice, Led By The Devil (Archival)​


----------



## Hollie

A portion of the Cult-like Pally reality can be attributed to a brutish, politico-religious ideology that hasn’t touched a calendar in 1,400 years. 












						A tale of 2 realities: Active terrorist shooter or innocent civilian? | PMW Analysis
					

The terror attack yesterday in Jerusalem’s Old City is a prime example of the alternative reality the Palestinian Authority attempts to create, with the goal of demonizing Israel and whitewashing terror




					www.palwatch.org
				





A tale of 2 realities: Active terrorist shooter or innocent civilian?​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Nov 22, 2021
The terror attack yesterday in Jerusalem’s Old City is a prime example of the alternative reality the Palestinian Authority attempts to create, with the goal of demonizing Israel and whitewashing terror.

In the real world, yesterday morning, an Arab resident of Jerusalem, who worked in a school funded by the Jerusalem municipality, decided to act upon incitement by the Palestinian Authority and his homicidal Hamas ideology to attack Israelis with an automatic weapon. The attacker murdered civilian Eliyahu Kay and injured four others. Israeli police officers shot the active terrorist shooter before he could murder any more innocent people.

In the world of the PA, a Palestinian was “shot by the occupation,” and “died as a Martyr,” after he allegedly – according to the “occupation police,” – killed a “policeman” or a “settler.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

This morning, a Hamas terrorist with a submachine gun started shooting Jews returning from prayer at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, killing one and injuring others.

The victim was still wearing his tallit and tefillin when he was murdered. He was killed because he was a Jew.

The murderer, Fadi Abu Shkhaidem, was a preacher and teacher at a school in Jerusalem - the Rashidiya school which is under the authority of Israel's Education Ministry. 

This terrorist was teaching high school boys every day.

Reportedly, his family left for Jordan several days ago, presumably to avoid being arrested by Israel.

According to Public Security Minister Omer Bar-Lev, Shkaidem was a member of Hamas' so-called "political wing" - not the Al Qassam Brigades "military wing" of Hamas.  The Al Qassam website is not claiming him as a member.

Hamas' political website issued a statement, in Arabic and English, that tied this attack to the British decision to ban all of Hamas as a terrorist group.

(full article online)









						After complaining that Britain declared it terrorist, Hamas "political wing" carries out and praises the murder of a religious Jew
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Those who knew Sheikh Fadi Abu Shkhaydam were not surprised to hear that he was the terrorist who carried out the shooting attack in the Old City of Jerusalem on Sunday morning.

Described by his friends and acquaintances as an “Islamic scholar,” the 42-year-old Abu Shkhaydam was a well-known preacher in east Jerusalem mosques, including al-Aqsa Mosque. Others referred to him as a “senior Hamas official in Jerusalem.”

It was not clear whether he held an official position with Hamas. What is clear is that he was affiliated with Hamas and regularly expressed views similar to those of the Gaza-based group.

(full article online)









						Who was the Islamic ‘scholar’ who carried out the Jerusalem attack?
					

What is clear is that he was affiliated with Hamas and regularly expressed views similar to those of the Gaza-based group.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

(It is almost Hanukkah.   Time to hunt Jews.  Or maybe the 18 year old just wanted some time away from his family in an Israeli jail?  )

A man was stabbed and moderately wounded in the central city of Jaffa on Sunday afternoon in what police said was potentially a terror attack.

Israel Police said an 18-year-old Palestinian from the Jenin area in the West Bank was arrested as a suspect. Officials said he had illegally entered Israel.

Police said indications were increasing that the incident was a terror attack, although they did not rule out other motives.

(full article online)









						Man stabbed, moderately hurt in suspected Jaffa terror attack; Palestinian arrested
					

67-year-old stabbed in the back 5 times, taken to hospital in moderate condition; suspect also tried to stab victim's wife; officials say assailant entered Israel illegally




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Someone who cannot take responsibility for his actions )


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Survey shows that the vast majority of Palestinian judges are sexist
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The terror attack yesterday in Jerusalem’s Old City is a prime example of the alternative reality the Palestinian Authority attempts to create, with the goal of demonizing Israel and whitewashing terror.

In the real world, yesterday morning, an Arab resident of Jerusalem, who worked in a school funded by the Jerusalem municipality, decided to act upon incitement by the Palestinian Authority and his homicidal Hamas ideology to attack Israelis with an automatic weapon. The attacker murdered civilian Eliyahu Kay and injured four others. Israeli police officers shot the active terrorist shooter before he could murder any more innocent people.

In the world of the PA, a Palestinian was “shot by the occupation,” and “died as a Martyr,” after he allegedly – according to the “occupation police,” – killed a “policeman” or a “settler.”

Shortly after the attack, the first version of the PA’s narrative was released by the official PA news agency, WAFA:

(full article online)









						A tale of 2 realities: Active terrorist shooter or innocent civilian? | PMW Analysis
					

The terror attack yesterday in Jerusalem’s Old City is a prime example of the alternative reality the Palestinian Authority attempts to create, with the goal of demonizing Israel and whitewashing terror




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The sociologists and think tank fellows who claim to know everything tell us that terrorists strike because “they have nothing to lose.” They supposedly have “personal problems” or “financial hardships.” They don’t have to worry about leaving behind widows or orphans. Well, this terrorist had everything to lose—but that didn’t stop him.

Shkhaydem was 42, not 22. He wasn’t an unstable, misguided youngster. He was a family man. He had a wife. He had five children. He simply didn’t care about making his wife a widow or leaving his children without a father. Murdering Jews was more important to him than the lives of his own loved ones.

In addition to the submachine gun, Shkhaydem was carrying a knife. Presumably, he wanted to be able to kill more Jews after his ammunition ran out.

Shkhaydem and his family lived in the northeastern Jerusalem neighborhood of Shuafat. Classified as a “refugee camp,” Shuafat is adjacent to two Jewish neighborhoods, Pisgat Ze’ev and French Hill. Its residents take the same light rail line as the residents of those cities. In other words, the Shkhaydems had plenty of opportunities for peaceful interaction with Israeli Jews.

The international news media often tell us that terrorists are merely “responding” to some “expansion” by Jewish settlers. They can’t trot out that excuse in this case. The Shkhaydems were living in Jerusalem. They were not being harmed in any way by Jewish “settlers.” Nobody was taking their land or threatening their livelihood.

The Shkhaydems hold Israeli identity cards and have the status of permanent residents of Jerusalem. They enjoy the same rights as Jewish Jerusalemites, including medical care and voting in municipal elections. (The only thing they can’t do is vote in general elections, since they are not Israeli citizens.) Nobody is oppressing them.

Shkhaydem was not some uneducated street thug. He has been described in news reports as “an Islamic scholar.” He was a well-known preacher in Jerusalem mosques, including the al-Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount. He was a teacher at the Rashidiya Secondary School, in Jerusalem which is in the municipial school system, but teaches the PA curriculum. He was “working on his PhD,” according to Shibli Sweiti, the terrorist’s uncle.

The schools in the Shkhaydems’ Shuafat neighborhood are run by the United Nations Relief and Work Agency for Palestinian Refugees, UNRWA. That’s a concession that the Israeli authorities have made, in the hope of fostering a peaceful atmosphere. That hasn’t worked out too well. UNRWA schools are notorious for using curricula that defame Jews and glorify terrorism. No doubt Fadi Abu Shkhaydem was pleased that his children are being educated there.

According to Israeli news reports, Shkhaydem’s friends and colleagues praised him as a “Mourabit,” or “defender of the faith” because of his frequent participation in rallies to prevent Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and to evict Jews from the Shimon HaTzadik / Sheikh Jarrah neighborhoods.

(full article online)









						A terrorist shatters all the stereotypes about terrorists
					

Before this latest horrible attack and tthe name of its dead victim—Eliyahu Kay, a 26-year-old immigrant from South Africa —fade from the news, let us at least learn one important lesson: Op-ed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The squad'ists are getting frantic about senate Dems putting a halt to the Build Back Broke money printing program. Talib and the squids would like nothing better than to see the Great Satan crippled by inflation.







__





						'Squad' Democrat Tlaib warns 'corporate Dems' Manchin, Sinema, may cut reconciliation in Senate: report
					





					www.msn.com
				





"We have corporate Dems," Tlaib, D-Mich., said in a Friday interview published Sunday. 

Tlaib further told Axios that she is worried Manchin, Sinema, and others are "influenced and guided by folks that don't have the best interests of the American people in mind."


----------



## Sixties Fan

The will circulating on social media hasn’t been independently verified, but it’s a dangerous document.

“We must steer the ship with our blood, and serve as the practical example of the way of jihad,” it added.

“I write these words with great joy. I end years of hard work with a meeting with God.”

An Islamist teacher who set out to murder Israelis is certainly capable of writing a last will and testament urging his children, students and impressionable youth to carry on a legacy of violence and jihad.

But it’s not difficult to imagine Hamas or a sympathizer prowling for young recruits drawing up such a document and putting it online. In September, Palestinians doctored photos of captured fugitives.

Palestinian incitement and brainwashing takes many forms on social media — posts that call for car-ramming attacks, instructional videos on proper techniques for stabbing Israelis, and tweets whipping up the street with disinformation about the Temple Mount, Sheikh Jarrah, a hunger strike, or something else. This will making the rounds on Palestinian social media and forums is in that vein.

(full article online)









						Palestinian Terrorist’s Last Will Urges Family, Students to Pursue Jihad | United with Israel
					

The will circulating on social media hasn't been independently verified, but it's a dangerous document.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Left-wing Embarrassment: Palestinian ‘Victim’ Turns Out to be Terrorist | United with Israel
					

One of the 'victims' whose picture was distributed by Yesh Din under the heading 'Farmer who was attacked' is a terrorist named Muhammad Salah, who was imprisoned in Israel after stabbing a soldier.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA encourages Palestinian youth to participate in violent confrontations with Israeli forces and risk their lives “for Palestine,” in order to become Martyrs – i.e., die for Allah. The PA also urges parents to rejoice when their kids are killed in such confrontations. The following is an example of the PA’s glorification of the death of a child and the child’s father’s “correct” reaction according to PA standards. He embraces the death of his 13-year-old son, states that he is happy and proud, viewing his son’s funeral as his wedding procession as a “groom.”  A Martyr's funeral is considered his wedding to the 72 Virgins in Paradise in Islam:













(full article online)









						Father of dead boy: “I’m so happy my son died as a Martyr and I’m leading him today as a groom” | PMW Analysis
					

The PA encourages Palestinian youth to participate in violent confrontations with Israeli forces and risk their lives “for Palestine,” in order to become Martyrs – i.e., die for Allah.




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> The PA encourages Palestinian youth to participate in violent confrontations with Israeli forces and risk their lives “for Palestine,” in order to become Martyrs – i.e., die for Allah. The PA also urges parents to rejoice when their kids are killed in such confrontations. The following is an example of the PA’s glorification of the death of a child and the child’s father’s “correct” reaction according to PA standards. He embraces the death of his 13-year-old son, states that he is happy and proud, viewing his son’s funeral as his wedding procession as a “groom.”  A Martyr's funeral is considered his wedding to the 72 Virgins in Paradise in Islam:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Father of dead boy: “I’m so happy my son died as a Martyr and I’m leading him today as a groom” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The PA encourages Palestinian youth to participate in violent confrontations with Israeli forces and risk their lives “for Palestine,” in order to become Martyrs – i.e., die for Allah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palwatch.org



I tend to feel nauseous reading about Pallys and their willingness to throw children onto the bonfires of hatred they create.


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


There are downsides to Islamic terrorism.


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## Hollie

It may be time for the Hamas flunkies to have another silly fashion parade where they pramcenaroind in military style uniforms. 








__





						Loading…
					





					www.courthousenews.com
				




Top EU court returns Hamas to terror list after 3-year break​The group with majority control of the Palestinian National Authority has been fighting the European Union over its designation as a terrorist group for over a decade. 
MOLLY QUELL / November 23, 2021


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had that wasn't


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## Hollie

​PA Min. of Educ. to kids: There is no Israel, “the entire land is ours, from the Sea to the River”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 24, 2021






*At PA school event, poster featuring the PA map of “Palestine” erasing Israel instructs kids: “Palestine – the entire land is ours, from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River”*​

​
Someone calling hinself the ''Minister of education'' has decided that ''Pal'istan'' is waqf. That's a quaint notion in islamist ideology where lands formerly conquered and / or occupied by Arabs-Moslems is forever the property of islamists. That was a commandment made by the inventor of Islam who partnered with God.

It seems that the international community buys into this as the welfare fraud money that maintains this nightmare still continues.


----------



## Hollie

Osama is angry. Something about land theft committed by something called 'Pal'istanians'.​​​​Osama Hamdan Of The Hamas Political Bureau Reacts To British Ban Of Hamas: The New 'Nazi' Government In London Wants To Attack The Palestinians​


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## Hollie

Expect another UNRWA campaign begging for welfare money.


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## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority loves to join international conventions.  


Not to abide by them, of course. As we saw with the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) and others, the Palestinian Authority signs on all these conventions just so they will look more like a real nation and and can join the International Criminal Court, but there is no or little intent to actually fulfill the obligations in those conventions.

The other major reason the PA joins every UN committee it can find is so that its envoys can make anti-Israel speeches, claiming that Israel is violating whatever the committee or convention is about. It tries to hijack every cause to make wild accusations against Israel.  

It happened again this week, at the Conference of the States Parties to the Convention on the Prohibition of Biological Weapons, currently being held in Geneva, Switzerland.

Omar Awadallah, the PA's assistant foreign minister, demanded the United Nations send an international biological investigation team to the settlements, to inspect their supposed biological weapons labs.

In his speech, he said that the Palestinians cannot fully adhere to the Convention because Israel might have biological weapons manufacturing facilities in Palestinian territory.

Awadallah then tried to stop the Israeli representative from speaking, claiming that Israel has used chemical weapons against Palestinians.

To Palestinians, international fora are places that only exist to harass and threaten Israel. The organizers don't expect any member to act to subvert the entire process to attack a single state, so there are no means to stop the Palestinians from ruining international meetings.

You can be sure that the other envoys that attend these meetings, people who actually care about non--conventional weapons or climate or women's rights or anything else, are very unhappy about seeing these meetings turn into showcases of immaturity and stupidity from the Palestinian representatives.









						Palestinian Authority, without any evidence, accuses Israel of manufacturing biological weapons in secret labs in the settlements
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

In light of the British declaration that all of Hamas is a terrorist organization, Hamas has been responding with statements that claim that their attacks on Israeli civilians are legal under international law.

Hamas' press release in response to the news story said, "We believe that resisting the Israeli occupation with all means possible, including armed resistance, is a guaranteed right for peoples under occupation as per international law." 

This was two days before  a Hamas terrorist murdered Eli Kay in Jerusalem, and Hamas' "political wing" praised the murder. Hamas has consistently claimed that all terrorist acts - suicide bombs, bus bombings, rocket attacks, shootings, stabbings, car rammings - are really acts of legitimate armed struggle.

That claim is made often by apologists for Palestinian terror. One prominent example is CJ Werleman's  2018 article titled "International law guarantees Palestinians the right to resist," which is entirely based on this claim:
---------
The Fourth Geneva Convention, article 33 is unambiguous: "No protected person [i.e., civilian] may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited." There is no exception to this rule.

The Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions, article 51(2), is even more explicit: "The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited."

The same article goes on to declare Hamas' entire conception of "armed resistance" to be illegal:




> 4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited.Indiscriminate attacks are:
> 
> (a) those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
> 
> (b) those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
> 
> (c) those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case,are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.
> 
> 5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:
> 
> (a) an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and
> 
> (b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.



This makes it clear that Hamas rockets are a direct violation of international law. 

(Later in that same article is the prohibition against using human shields.)

These are not the only legal instruments that prove that Hamas-style terror is a direct breach of international law, although they are enough. 

UN Security Council  Resolution 1566 (2004) condemns all kinds of terror, and it explicitly says that there is no possible excuse or exception for terrorist attacks - a direct rebuke to those like Hamas, Werleman and Cohen who pretend that Palestinians are in a different category:




> 1.  Condemns in the strongest terms all acts of terrorism irrespective of their motivation, whenever and by whomsoever committed, as one of the most serious threats to peace and security;
> ...
> 3.  Recalls that criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act, and all other acts which constitute offences within the scope of and as defined in the international conventions and protocols relating to terrorism, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature, and calls upon all States to prevent such acts and, if not prevented, to ensure that such acts are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature.


This resolution was passed under Chapter 7, meaning that it has the force of international law. 
In 2004, the UN Secretary General described the difficulties in defining terrorism and briefly addressed the arguments of the terror apologists, demolishing them in a single paragraph:



> The search for an agreed definition [of terrorism] usually stumbles on two issues. The first is the argument that any definition should include States’ use of armed forces against civilians. We believe that the legal and normative framework against State violations is far stronger than in the case of non-State actors and we do not find this objection to be compelling. The second objection is that peoples under foreign occupation have a right to resistance and a definition of terrorism should not override this right. The right to resistance is contested by some. But it is not the central point: the central point is that there is nothing in the fact of occupation that justifies the targeting and killing of civilians.



Taken as a whole, international law is crystal clear: Hamas and the other Palestinian factions are terror groups and their attacks on civilians are blatantly illegal under international law. They are explicit war crimes. 

(full article online)









						No, Palestinian terrorism is not legal "resistance" under international law
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

​Terror orgs use shooting and stabbing attacks to try and trigger more terror​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 25, 2021









						Terror orgs use shooting and stabbing attacks to try and trigger more terror | PMW Analysis
					

PFLP: “Learn from the example of the self-sacrificing fighter who shot the settlers [on Sunday]”




					palwatch.org
				




*PFLP: “Learn from the example of the self-sacrificing fighter who shot the settlers [on Sunday]” *​
*PFLP praises “heroic” murder, urges to copy attack in Jerusalem*​
*PFLP: “Escalate the resistance at all the centers of confrontation with the occupation,*​
*PFLP about 16-year-old boy stabbing two Israeli police officers:  “the heroic operation … proves that our people’s revolution is continuing, heating up, and becoming more qualitative day by day”*​
*Terrorist murderer before attack called to use “everything at our disposal” to release prisoners*​
*Terrorist murderer urged Palestinians to “tell the oppressor: ‘Get away from us!’”*​










As happens with the Islamic terrorists, crimes committed by their adherents are used as an incentive to spur more crimes.


----------



## Hollie

Nonsensical comments from the squid squad's Rashida Tlaib about emptying federal prisons could not have come at a worse time for the disaster also called the Biden presidency. 












						WH Distances Biden from Rashida Tlaib Proposal to End Federal Prisons
					

The White House emphatically distanced President Joe Biden from a radical proposal from Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) to close federal prisons.




					www.breitbart.com
				





The White House emphatically distanced President Joe Biden from a radical proposal from Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) to close federal prisons.

“Let me be absolutely clear: The President does not support abolishing prisons,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Tuesday at the daily press briefing after she was asked about Tlaib’s proposal.

Tlaib recently defended her proposal in an interview with Axios reporter Jonathan Swan, noting that many criminals in federal prison were suffering from mental illness


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Tweets as a Propaganda Tool
⁜→  et al,

*BLUF*:  Certain Social Networking and Media Outlets are notorious for being "half" wrong, but are great tools for spreading deceptive content, manipulated or altered information, and false commentary.  As they say, highlighting a truth within a lie make the propaganda all the Moore effective.

Our friend "Sixties Fan" has found now here. in the TRTWorld Electronic Magazine Article by CJ Werleman's 2018 →  Titled "*International law guarantees Palestinians the right to resist*,"
​


			
				EXCERPT From •  said:
			
		

> That claim is made often by apologists for Palestinian terror. One prominent example is CJ Werleman's 2018 article titled "International law guarantees Palestinians the right to resist," which is entirely based on this claim:
> ---------​The Fourth Geneva Convention, article 33 is unambiguous: "No protected person [i.e., civilian] may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited." There is no exception to this rule.​​The Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions, article 51(2), is even more explicit: "The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited."​SOURCE:  *Posting #21,145 by Sixties Fan*​


*(COMMENT)*
.
In this case, CJ Werleman starts off on the Topic of "Right to Resist" but his presentation neither cites international law, treaty or convention pertaining to the "Right of Self-Resist" for the "Right of Self-Defense." This is a writing style and technique used by many propagandists that twist the general media duty to perform a public service by informing and enlightening the public. (_The Peter Parker principle → Stan Lee._). Most people are aware that Propagandist do not have a profound moral code or ethical standard towards the truth. And some writers and journalist are aware that publish content that incites discrimination, hostility or violence is prohibited, on the international level, by Article 20 of the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR). And these writers and journalist do the exact opposite effect of informing or enlightening the public in a responsible manner. There is a difference between than Arab Palestinian's "Right to Self-Defense" and the Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (the Israelis), an Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely perform espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power (Israel), or commit offences which have caused the death of people - no matter the race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status (any one at all). Arab Palestinians, no matter what cause they claim are subject to the prosecution under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL). (*See Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention*)

I would like to jump on the train and lend my support to the "Sixties Fan" and "Hollie" (as well as others) who have cited their objection to writers and journalist that disfigure the truth in favor of throwing rocks at Israel.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Hollie

In most societies, the kind of incitement to provoke violent attacks that are the norm in the Pally occupied territories simply isn't allowed. Groups that promote killing and lawlesness are taken apart.

The Pally's are clear about their intentions when they groom and make heroes of the sociopaths they breed. They understand the consequences - that the Israelis will respond to attacks but the lives of children are made cheap in the Pally territories.  And when talking heads in media outlets make excuses for, and play the blame shifting game, we have to allow them not even the smallest, thinnest bit of concealment from the loathsone dishonesty they promote.












						Palestinian Incitement Laid Bare: Hamas Murders Israeli, Child Calls on Allah To ‘Burn’ Jews
					

Family and friends attend the funeral of Eliyahu David Kay at a cemetary in Jerusalem November 22, 2021. Picture taken …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




The facts were clear from the onset, with Hamas having praised the “heroic operation” an hour later. Yet, multiple news outlets blurred the lines between the assailant and his victims. On BBC Newshour, former Palestinian Authority spokesperson Nour Odeh blamed the terror attack on Israel, thus ignoring the long history of Palestinian incitement and backing of terrorism.

Following the attack, hundreds of Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem participated in a pro-Hamas march to honor the terrorist. Meanwhile in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, “activists” distributed sweets in celebration of murder.

In a televised eulogy of Fadi Abu Shkhaydam, one of his students laid bare the results of Hamas’ antisemitic incitement:








What is this about children calling on allah to burn Jews? We're told ''this is not a religious conflict''.


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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Tweets as a Propaganda Tool
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Certain Social Networking and Media Outlets are notorious for being "half" wrong, but are great tools for spreading deceptive content, manipulated or altered information, and false commentary.  As they say, highlighting a truth within a lie make the propaganda all the Moore effective.
> 
> Our friend "Sixties Fan" has found now here. in the TRTWorld Electronic Magazine Article by CJ Werleman's 2018 →  Titled "*International law guarantees Palestinians the right to resist*,"
> ​
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> In this case, CJ Werleman starts off on the Topic of "Right to Resist" but his presentation neither cites international law, treaty or convention pertaining to the "Right of Self-Resist" for the "Right of Self-Defense." This is a writing style and technique used by many propagandists that twist the general media duty to perform a public service by informing and enlightening the public. (_The Peter Parker principle → Stan Lee._). Most people are aware that Propagandist do not have a profound moral code or ethical standard towards the truth. And some writers and journalist are aware that publish content that incites discrimination, hostility or violence is prohibited, on the international level, by Article 20 of the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR). And these writers and journalist do the exact opposite effect of informing or enlightening the public in a responsible manner. There is a difference between than Arab Palestinian's "Right to Self-Defense" and the Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (the Israelis), an Arab Palestinian who commit an offense which is solely perform espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power (Israel), or commit offences which have caused the death of people - no matter the race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status (any one at all). Arab Palestinians, no matter what cause they claim are subject to the prosecution under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL). (*See Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention*)
> 
> I would like to jump on the train and lend my support to the "Sixties Fan" and "Hollie" (as well as others) who have cited their objection to writers and journalist that disfigure the truth in favor of throwing rocks at Israel.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Thanks for the link.

In fact, international law is unambiguous in its endorsement of “armed struggle” for peoples who seek self-determination under “colonial and foreign domination.”

United Nations resolution 37/43, dated 3 December 1982, “reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.”

Moreover, the resolution’s preamble makes clear that it refers not to a hypothetical in the abstract, but rather specifically to the rights of Palestinians, stating, “Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> In fact, international law is unambiguous in its endorsement of “armed struggle” for peoples who seek self-determination under “colonial and foreign domination.”
> 
> United Nations resolution 37/43, dated 3 December 1982, “reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.”
> 
> Moreover, the resolution’s preamble makes clear that it refers not to a hypothetical in the abstract, but rather specifically to the rights of Palestinians, stating, “Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security.”





United Nations resolution 37/43, dated 3 December 1982, “reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.



So.... you confirm the legitimacy of Israeli resistance.


----------



## Hollie

The most recent Pally attacker wanted to be a gee-had role model. 

He's dead. He perpetuated the negative stereotypes of Pally Arabs as sociopathic child abusers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel is considering encouraging schools to go on field trips to the Temple Mount, and Palestinian media has been talking about it non-stop.

On Thursday, the main preacher at Al Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, issued a statement today about how Jewish schoolchildren visiting Judaism's most sacred place is somehow an existential danger Al Aqsa mosque.

Warning: extreme hyperbole alert.


> The preacher of Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, warned today, Thursday, of an “existential danger” threatening the blessed mosque, as it wastransformed into a lawless intrusion arena for students of settlement schools, as part of their compulsory tours.
> 
> Sabri said that the occupation's transformation of the Al-Aqsa Mosque into a shrine for settlement schools is an attempt to promote the Jewish character of Jerusalem and end the Islamic landmarks in it.
> 
> He added that the occupation wants to make Jerusalem the capital of the Jews, and accordingly it completes its procedures with the purely Jewish characteristics to say that Jerusalem is Jewish.
> 
> He continued, "We've said before that Al-Aqsa Mosque is in danger, but today it is really facing dangers."
> 
> He considered the decision to include Al-Aqsa in the program of trips to the settlement schools as "a blatant interference in the affairs of the mosque, and an insult to its sanctity and its courtyards."
> 
> Sheikh Sabri stressed that Al-Aqsa Mosque is above being subject to the decisions of the Israeli Knesset or the occupation courts, as it is for Muslims alone and by a divine decision. "We categorically reject the Israeli decision regarding Al-Aqsa, and we hold the occupation government fully responsible for any damage to the blessed mosque," he added.
> 
> He cautioned about the seriousness of the decision, which violates Al-Aqsa courtyards, intensifies the presence of Jews inside it, and tightens the noose around Muslims, indicating that this step is in the interest of imposing Israeli sovereignty over the mosque.
> 
> Sheikh Sabri pointed out that "these extremist Jewish groups feel that the atmosphere is ripe for them to attack Al-Aqsa Mosque."
> 
> The preacher of Al-Aqsa Mosque called on the people of Palestine and Jerusalem to "intensify the pilgrimage to the blessed mosque, and to reconstruct it permanently, to repel any possibility that we might be surprised by the extremist Jews."



Not a word about Zionists or Israelis visiting - only Jews.

The Temple Mount is a microcosm of the entire conflict. Israel wants to share with the Muslims, Muslims want to expel the Jews. 

(full article online)









						Al Aqsa preacher warns of the existential danger of Jewish children visiting the Temple Mount
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why the Palestinian Voice Should Take Center Stage
					

Without that genuine and engaged Palestinian intellectual, the world’s priorities will continue to gravitate towards Israeli priorities, towards US interests and their subsequent fraudulent language about ‘peace,’ security’ and such.




					www.palestinechronicle.com
				








Palestinian activists Mohammed and Muna El-Kurd. (Photo: via Twitter)


----------



## P F Tinmore

IN PHOTOS: Taqwa Nassar, Tenth Sibling to Graduate from Islamic University
					

Taqwa Abdulhadi Nassar has made her parents’ dream come true as she became the last of ten siblings to graduate from college.




					www.palestinechronicle.com
				








Taqwa Abdulhadi Nassar the last of ten siblings to graduate from college. (Photo: Mahmoud Ajjour, The Palestine Chronicle)


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

At some point, one hopes that all Islamic terrorist enclaves will be designated as dangers to the international community. 











						A Win for Security and Sanity: The U.K. Designates Hamas a Terrorist Organization
					

In the arena of international relations, security and sanity got a win, as the United Kingdom recently designated the ter...




					humanevents.com
				




In the arena of international relations, security and sanity got a win, as the United Kingdom recently designated the terrorist organization Hamas (a.ka., the “Islamic Resistance Movement”) as a…

Terrorist organization.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
⁜→ Hollie, et al,


Hollie said:


> A Win for Security and Sanity: The U.K. Designates Hamas a Terrorist Organization
> 
> 
> In the arena of international relations, security and sanity got a win, as the United Kingdom recently designated the ter...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> humanevents.com


*(COMMENT)*

Every time I hear about one of these unflattering publicity moves on the part of the Arab Palestinians, I think back to one of those pro-Arab Palestinians propaganda mantras that suggest Islam is a Religion of Peace.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Every time I hear about one of these unflattering publicity moves on the part of the Arab Palestinians, I think back to one of those pro-Arab Palestinians propaganda mantras that suggest Islam is a Religion of Peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


I've never understood the "Religion of Peace" moniker. Nothing in the history of the politico-religious ideology would seem to warrant the slogan. 

CAIR and other Islamic organizations, which enjoy the Western protection of liberty denied to minority religious groups wherever Islam predominates, love to promulgate the spurious "Religion of Peace" notion but one can read the Koran and come to a differing opinion.  Turning the tables, TheReligionofPeace.com replaces the words Christians, Jews, and unbelievers with Muslims in several verses from the the Koran—the book which mainstream Muslims literally interpret to be the immutable message of God to all men of all times. Hate Speech? (Not According to CAIR)
•    “Muslims are the vilest of animals…” 
•    “Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims” 
•    “How perverse are Muslims!” 
•    “Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips” 
•    “Fight those Muslims who are near to you” 
•    “Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified” 
[Koran 8:55, 48.29, 9:30, 8:12, 9:123, 5:33]

Who's really peaceful here?


Here's an idea to help convince Westerners that Islam is truly the _Religion of Peace_™: Condemn, unconditionally, _any and all acts of terror_ in the name of your death cult. Every Hamas murder/suicide bombing, every internecine Sunni/Shi'a act of violent mayhem, every last horrific act of Islamic mass murder or other depravity, everywhere, every single time.

Until then, expect clear-minded and morally unconflicted people to call Islam by its true name—a totalitarian, and violent religious ideology desperately in need of reform and enlightenment to reconcile it with the liberties and rights of the modern age.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



That is excellent news.
We need more Muslim terrorist supporters in Congress.


----------



## Hollie

​“We’re going to free Palestine… from the river to the sea,” chants girl in Fatah video​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 26, 2021

*Girl: “We’re going to free our land/Together and hand in hand/Palestine will be free/From the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea”*​
*Young man: “Palestine… will be liberated from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea”*​



Abbas’ Fatah Movement educates Palestinian children to envision the destruction of Israel and a future with only “Palestine.” This doctrine is evident in Fatah’s magazine_ Waed_ aimed at young children and youth, as exposed in Palestinian Media Watch’s recent report. Maps such as these are part of the contents in the magazine:







What looks like a child, perhaps 9 years old, used and abused by the Pally-Arabs. Wherever could they have gotten such an ideology of female child abuse from?


----------



## Hollie

Let the begging for welfare money (this week's version), begin. With the number of Pally "refugees" exploding decade after decade. .... (well, maybe "exploding" is the wrong term to use relative to the Pally history of suicide bombing), the Pally "refugee" welfare fraud is simply an endless money pit. 











						UN Agency For Palestine Refugees Seeks New Contributors To A...
					

GAZA, Nov 26 (NNN-WAFA) – The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), said that, it will hold contacts with donors, t




					menafn.com
				




(MENAFN- Nam News Network) GAZA, Nov 26 (NNN-WAFA) – The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), said that, it will hold contacts with donors, to bring new contributors to achieve sustainable funding to cover its budget.

The UNRWA was established by the UN General Assembly in 1949, with a mandate to provide assistance and protection to some 5.6 million Palestinian refugees in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan.– NNN-WAFA













						Palestinian Refugees: Myth vs Reality
					

On January 14, 2021, outgoing Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tweeted about Palestinian refugees, proclaiming “(less than) 200,000 Arabs displaced in 1948 are still alive and most others are not refugees by any rational criteria.” A month earlier, on December 11, a group of 22 Republican members...




					www.mei.edu
				




On January 14, 2021, outgoing Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tweeted about Palestinian refugees, proclaiming “(less than) 200,000 Arabs displaced in 1948 are still alive and most others are not refugees by any rational criteria.” A month earlier, on December 11, a group of 22 Republican members of Congress sent a letter to President Donald Trump requesting that he instruct the Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration to declassify a report on the approximate number of Palestinian refugees, with the intention of redefining and disenfranchising millions of Palestinian refugees of their refugee status. The intent behind the request is made evident by the letter, which states, “The issue of the so-called Palestinian ‘right of return’ of 5.3 million refugees to Israel as part of any ‘peace deal’ is an unrealistic demand, and we do not believe it accurately reflects the number of actual Palestinian refugees.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


>


Dr. Michael Spath Interviews Huwaida Arraf a Palestinian American Human Rights Activist​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

So-called ''Pales'tanians''

Stolen land, stolen identity, stolen history.

As fake as Betty Crocker instant falafel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> So-called ''Pales'tanians''
> 
> Stolen land, stolen identity, stolen history.
> 
> As fake as Betty Crocker instant falafel.



Didn't Tinny post that picture recently?


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Didn't Tinny post that picture recently?


One of many fakes he posted.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> One of many fakes he posted.








__





						Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
					





					www.usmessageboard.com
				




LOL!


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com



OMG that's hilarious.


----------



## Hollie

​girls sing “we’ll sacrifice our lives” on PA TV​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Oct 27, 2021




*Girls sing in honor of terrorist prisoner who stabbed 4*​
What could be more appropriate than a song about dying for Allah and “Palestine” to celebrate a wedding anniversary? What could be cuter than 2 young girls singing the song? And what could be more damaging than the PA’s constant brainwashing of Palestinian children and adults that “Martyrdom” is good, prestigious, and what Allah desires?






I can't help but find it really, really creepy that Pallys have this 'thing' with abuse of pre-teen female children. I suppose Jenna gee-had and Shirley Temper have outlived their usefulness.

It's those nine year olds who have such a long history of islamic service to older men.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another fake photo?


----------



## Hollie

PMW Op-Ed: UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians​
Itamar Marcus  | Nov 14, 2021




*UNRWA - the worst thing that ever happened to Palestinians*​*UNRWA - possibly the most human rights abusing institution*​*funded by the international community.*​by Itamar Marcus
Donor countries will be gathering on Tuesday in Brussels hoping to raise $800 million for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) to run Palestinian refugee camps. But is funding UNRWA a wise investment for the donor countries? And even more important, is funding UNRWA good for the Palestinians?





UNRWA - the best thing that ever happened to the Pally Islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## Hollie

I'm seeing a pattern here. Islamic terrorists reward attacks on civilians in furtherance of their ideological goals and are then quick to celebrate by handing out candy to children. 















						The Other War
					

The Palestinians are at war with Israel, yes. But Hamas and Fatah are also at war with one another.




					www.newsweek.com
				




The Hamas terror attack on three Israelis in the Old City of Jerusalem on Sunday, and the death of one, received little attention in the American press. The victims were Jews who had just visited the Western Wall to pray, and the deceased was planning to soon be married. Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip handed out sweets to children in honor of the terror, and a sobbing Palestinian child tore at his sweater and mourned his teacher, the perpetrator Fahdi Abu Shahidam, wailing, "He was a good man. He never cursed anyone except the Jews, may Allah burn them."

Nothing there to interest the Western press, apparently.


----------



## Hollie

This is no way to honor Islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## Hollie

I guess the gee-had to conquer Europe is on again…. after this short message from one of our sponsors.


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys are so ungrateful. After everything Islamic totalitarianism has brought them….












						‘No security, no respect’: Anger with Palestinian Authority soars
					

A protest movement against Palestinian Authority corruption and authoritarianism gains momentum in occupied West Bank.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Palestinian Authority’s standing slides amid growing frustration​A protest movement against Palestinian Authority’s corruption and authoritarianism is gaining momentum in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Could there be (another) “radical” splinter group of Islamic terrorists under the Fatah franchise?

It’s time for another UNRWA fundraiser. The gee-had survives on OPM, Other People’s Money.


----------



## Hollie

The end result of financial contributions to Islamic terrorist occupiers.


----------



## Hollie

Confirming that the PA, (Pal’ism), is just an exploitative, bottomless pit of waste and fraud. ​
Despite unprecedented income, PA still begs for charity​








						Despite unprecedented income, PA still begs for charity | PMW Analysis
					

Financial reports released by the Palestinian Authority show that the the PA's income during the first 10 months of 2021, was the highest ever




					www.palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Nov 29, 2021
Financial reports released by the Palestinian Authority show that the the PA's income during the first 10 months of 2021, was the *highest ever*. Curiously, this fact was entirely absent from the report released by the World Bank in preparation for the meeting of the Ad-Hoc Liaison Committee for Palestine – an international meeting during which the PA cries about its financial woes and begs the international community to donate more and more funds.
According to the PA’s financial report, the PA net income for the first 10 months of 2021 totaled 11,391,800,000 shekels. This reflected a rise of 1.798 billion shekels in comparison to 2019 and over 3 billion shekels in comparison with 2020. Over the last decade, the PA net income has gradually doubled.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas, Islamic Jihad call for firing Jenin governor who criticized 'resistance'​The call came amid increasing scenes of anarchy and lawlessness in the city and nearby villages and towns, in addition to the Jenin Refugee Camp.​








						Hamas, Islamic Jihad call for firing Jenin gov. who slammed 'resistance'
					

The call came amid increasing scenes of anarchy and lawlessness in the city and nearby villages and towns, in addition to the Jenin Refugee Camp.




					www.jpost.com
				















Hamas is suffering some hurt feelings for being criticized. Not to worry, the gee-had in a Shame Sack is on the job.


----------



## Hollie

It seems there’s a real Arafat groupie contingent among the Pallys. As happens so often, it’s young females who are used to spread the message of suicide as a part of the act of killing for the Cult. 










						“The blood of the Martyrs draws the borders of the homeland” - Martyrdom veneration for adults and children alike | PMW Analysis
					

“Martyrdom is our choice” – girl sings for death at Arafat memorial




					www.palwatch.org
				





The blood of the Martyrs draws the borders of the homeland” - Martyrdom veneration for adults and children alike​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Nov 30, 2021

*“The blood of the Martyrs draws the borders of the homeland” – PA TV host glorifies death*​
*“The Martyr is the night star”*​
*“Martyrdom is our choice” – girl sings for death at Arafat memorial*​



Opening the _Good Morning Jerusalem_ program on official PA TV, the TV host recited a poem glorifying and romanticizing death for Allah. Exemplifying the PA’s cult-like veneration of dead terrorists – who it calls “Martyrs” – by referring to their “fragrance” that “engulfs the city,” the poem expressed esteem for the “souls of the homeland’s heroes.” The host continued reading the poem, saying that it is “the blood of Martyrs that draws the borders of the homeland”, and then dedicated the entire program to dead and imprisoned terrorists – “our pure Martyrs and our heroic prisoners”:



The stuff that would make Marshall Applewhite or Jim Jones so proud. It’s much the same “training” that cults use to recruit and maintain adherents.


*“The Martyr is the night star”*​*“Martyrdom is our choice”*​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Grow up and kill Jews  - that is the comforting message that Jenin District Deputy Governor Kamal Abu Al-Rub passed on to the young son of terrorist stabber Israa Khzaimiah, while they stood next to her dead body draped in the Palestinian flag at the morgue.

Israa Khzaimiah was a 30-year-old female Palestinian terrorist who attempted to stab Israeli police officers in Jerusalem’s Old City on Sept. 30, 2021. She was killed by the officers during her attack.

Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted a video of the PA official comforting one of the terrorist’s young sons, encouraging him that when he grows up he will kill “Jews” - to whom he assigned collective responsibility - because they “killed her”:















						Grow up and kill Jews - PA official to son of dead terrorist stabber at ‎the morgue ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Grow up and kill Jews - that is the comforting message that Jenin District Deputy Governor Kamal Abu Al-Rub passed on to the young son of terrorist stabber Israa Khzaimiah, while they stood next to her dead body draped in the Palestinian flag at the morgue.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Financial reports released by the Palestinian Authority show that the the PA’s income during the first 10 months of 2021, was the highest ever.

Curiously, this fact was entirely absent from the report released by the World Bank in preparation for the meeting of the Ad-Hoc Liaison Committee for Palestine – an international meeting during which the PA cries about its financial woes and begs the international community to donate more and more funds.

According to the PA’s financial report, the PA net income for the first 10 months of 2021 totaled 11,391,800,000 shekels. This reflected a rise of 1.798 billion shekels in comparison to 2019 and over 3 billion shekels in comparison with 2020. Over the last decade, the PA net income has gradually doubled.

(full article online)









						Despite Unprecedented Income, PA Still Begs for Charity | United with Israel
					

The PA's net income has doubled over the last decade. Where's the money going?




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,


Sixties Fan said:


> EXCERPT:   Grow up and kill Jews  - that is the comforting message that Jenin District Deputy Governor Kamal Abu Al-Rub passed on to the young son of terrorist stabber Israa Khzaimiah, while they stood next to her dead body draped in the Palestinian flag at the morgue.
> 
> Israa Khzaimiah was a 30-year-old female Palestinian terrorist who attempted to stab Israeli police officers in Jerusalem’s Old City on Sept. 30, 2021. She was killed by the officers during her attack.
> 
> Abbas’ Fatah Movement posted a video of the PA official comforting one of the terrorist’s young sons, encouraging him that when he grows up he will kill “Jews” -


*(COMMENT)*
.
I cannot help but think that the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Criminal Police (INTERPOL) must have decided that the Violation of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) is too big a job for them to handle.  Maybe the Hague should find contractor to do the job. 

The is fairly routine for the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to openly offer stipens to terrorists and commit the willful and intentional action that injures a party under the color of law.

◈   Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.​​◈   Offering  stipen for Murder (Murder for Hire with monetary reward).​
◈   Prosecutorial Misconduct​.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

Various groups have identified the poisonous material used by the UN sponsored welfare program that allows Pallys to continue operating their madrassahs.

What will end this nonsense is action to throttle the perpetual welfare program called UNRWA.










						Watchdog Emphasizes Hate Speech in Palestinian Curricula as Refugee Agency UNRWA Faces Donor Cuts
					

View of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) building in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. Photo: Abed …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





*Watchdog Emphasizes Hate Speech in Palestinian Curricula as Refugee Agency UNRWA Faces Donor Cuts*
​




View of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) building in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. Photo: Abed Rahim Khatib / Flash90.
As the UN’s Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA faces financial strain following cuts in aid from the UK and other donor nations, an Israel-based watchdog group emphasized US and EU opposition to hate speech and incitement in the agency’s educational materials


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

BLUF:  It is not as if the UNRWA was caught by surprise.  We are well into the 



Hollie said:


> Various groups have identified the poisonous material used by the UN sponsored welfare program that allows Pallys to continue operating their madrassahs.


*(COMMENT)*
.
The problem is now deep into the six-decade of growth (a _second-generation and well into the third-generation_).  And the growth has steadily grown in magnitude and intensity of anti-Israel content.  This again is a violation of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights (Human Rights Law).   Over the years, the various facets of the Islamic national Liberation and Resistance Movements have elevated the illegal armed struggle against the Civil Administration in the West Bank and Jerusalem, to a point that it makes terrorism an admirable; bring the belief and participation not only ascended religiously and politically → rewarded (_by stipend_) in this life and into the materialistically (_erotic chattel_) in the next life for their heroic deeds like that of Dalal al-Maghribi (role model for women), a national treasure for Palestinian National Heroine on UNRWA run schools and in school texts. 

The only way this could have gone unnoticed is as if the Donor Nations actually wanted to provide funding for the Hostile Arab Palestinians over the decades.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Continued Child Abuse )



(full article online)









						Palestinian TV shows kids singing that Jews are "impure" and "the world's dogs"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> And the growth has steadily grown in magnitude and intensity of anti-Israel content. This again is a violation of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights (Human Rights Law).


What are some of these violations? Give me a list.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*“The blood of the Martyrs draws the borders of the homeland” – PA TV host glorifies death*​
*“The Martyr is the night star”*​
*“Martyrdom is our choice” – girl sings for death at Arafat memorial*​




Opening the _Good Morning Jerusalem_ program on official PA TV, the TV host recited a poem glorifying and romanticizing death for Allah. Exemplifying the PA’s cult-like veneration of dead terrorists – who it calls “Martyrs” – by referring to their “fragrance” that “engulfs the city,” the poem expressed esteem for the “souls of the homeland’s heroes.” The host continued reading the poem, saying that it is “the blood of Martyrs that draws the borders of the homeland”, and then dedicated the entire program to dead and imprisoned terrorists – “our pure Martyrs and our heroic prisoners”: 

(full article online)









						“The blood of the Martyrs draws the borders of the homeland” - Martyrdom veneration for adults and children alike | PMW Analysis
					

“Martyrdom is our choice” – girl sings for death at Arafat memorial




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian police rescue Israelis from mob in West Bank
					

Palestinian rioters threw rocks at the Israelis car, attempted to attack the two and set their car on fire.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> What are some of these violations? Give me a list.


*(COMMENT)*

1966 *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*
The exploitation of children for mass media consumption of hatred is a violation of the CCPR.

• Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​• Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
Each time the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) promote hatred as exampled in Posting #21,193, it is a violation of the CCPR International Humanitarian Law (IHL).

Each time the HoAP makes a payment to the terrorist serving time, or the family of a dead terrorist, that violates the *1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorist*.

Each time the HoAP Leadership immortalizes a terrorist and makes them a role model, that is a violation of the CCPR.

Each time the HoAP says it is a "human right" for Palestinians to kill Jews, that is a violation of the CCPR.

Each time the HoAP starts inciting and promoting violence against Israeli flag march in Jerusalem, that is a violation of the CCPR.

I'm tired now so I will stop here.  





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1966 *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*
> The exploitation of children for mass media consumption of hatred is a violation of the CCPR.
> 
> • Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​​• Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> Each time the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) promote hatred as exampled in Posting #21,193, it is a violation of the CCPR International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> Each time the HoAP makes a payment to the terrorist serving time, or the family of a dead terrorist, that violates the *1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorist*.
> 
> Each time the HoAP Leadership immortalizes a terrorist and makes them a role model, that is a violation of the CCPR.
> 
> Each time the HoAP says it is a "human right" for Palestinians to kill Jews, that is a violation of the CCPR.
> 
> Each time the HoAP starts inciting and promoting violence against Israeli flag march in Jerusalem, that is a violation of the CCPR.
> 
> I'm tired now so I will stop here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Generalities. Could you be mire specific?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Generalities. Could you be mire specific?


Could you be more revolting in ignoring anything that does not give  your violent heroes  the right to kill Jews, or exploit their own children to kill Jews?


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a recent piece for The Guardian, opinion columnist Owen Jones expresses his ire about a speech given by the UK Labour Party leader, Keir Starmer, to the Labour Friends of Israel.

In his op-ed, “Denied a state, Palestinians are now denied a say in their own future,” Jones manages to sidestep most of the salient facts surrounding the issue of Palestinian statehood, in an effort to hammer home his simplistic central message: Palestinians are victims, and Israel and its supporters are responsible.

Jones’ disregard for the truth is evident in his headline, which misleadingly implies that Israel is somehow responsible for Palestinians being “denied a state.”

Yet, he neglects to mention why such statehood has not yet been actualized — because the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected all comprehensive peace proposals.

For example, at the Camp David Summit in 2000, then-US president Bill Clinton, with the backing of then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, offered Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat a deal that would have seen 92 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip put under Palestinian control, with a plan to award territorial compensation for the remaining eight percent.

In addition, eastern Jerusalem would have been designated the new state’s capital.

Unfortunately for millions of Palestinians, Arafat rejected the proposal and, instead, unleashed the Second Intifada, a campaign of suicide attacks that killed more than 1,000 Israelis, and injured thousands more.
----

That Jones can blithely ignore the role the Palestinian leadership has in keeping its citizens in a state of chronic poverty is astonishing.

Gaza’s terrorist rulers — Hamas — currently hold interests in dozens of international companies, with an estimated value reportedly exceeding $500 million (not that any of this money is spent on much-needed infrastructure in the Strip).

Hamas is also well-funded by Iran, which has supplied the group with all kinds of state-of-the-art military equipment, including rockets and drones, that are then used to wage war against the Jewish state.

Jones notes the disparity in the loss of life in the conflict, yet ignores why this is the case: while Israel has an Iron Dome defense missile system that protects its citizens from indiscriminate rocket fire, Hamas uses its people as human shields by hiding its weapons arsenals in tunnels beneath schools and hospitals — a fact that even the United Nations, a frequent critic of Israel, has attested to.

By skirting facts and ignoring inconvenient truths, any point Jones thinks he is making is completely lost in this muddled op-ed.

(full article online)









						Who’s Really Stopping a Palestinian State? Let’s Look at the Facts
					

Palestinian children look on as Islamic Jihad militants stand guard following Israel-Hamas truce, in Gaza May 21, 2021. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Could you be more revolting in ignoring anything that does not give  your violent heroes  the right to kill Jews, or exploit their own children to kill Jews?


Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Generalities. Could you be mire specific?


Sidestepping. Could you be more predictable?


----------



## Hollie

Gazans Seeking Permits To Work In Israel: People Here 'Are Eating Shit'; Economic Circumstances Are Tough; We Are Going To Work, Not To Join The IDF Or CIA; Gaza Is Linked To Israel, Not Jordan Or Egypt
					

On November 24, 2021, Al-Quds Al-Youm (Palestinian Islamic Jihad – Gaza) aired a report about Gazans who hope to receive...




					www.memri.org
				


​*Gazans Seeking Permits To Work In Israel: People Here 'Are Eating Shit'; Economic Circumstances Are Tough; We Are Going To Work, Not To Join The IDF Or CIA; Gaza Is Linked To Israel, Not Jordan Or Egypt.*​



What a whiner. Doesn’t he realize those at the top of the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist franchises have a certain lifestyle to maintain? Does he think that fuel and maintenance costs for a presidential jet just grows on the kuffar tree?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Yet, he neglects to mention why such statehood has not yet been actualized — because the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected all comprehensive peace proposals.


There have never been any "peace" proposals. They have all been surrender and give up land proposals.

Israel, Palestine and the myth of the 'generous peace offers'​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There have never been any "peace" proposals. They have all been surrender and give up land proposals.
> 
> Israel, Palestine and the myth of the 'generous peace offers'​


There obviously have been peace offers made by Israel as exampled by return of lands to Arab attackers and treaties signed with Arab nations. On the other hand, faced with the Hamas Charter and the islamic terrorist incitement and attacks from the various islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank, there is a defend yourself or die requirement for the Israelis. 

Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

​







						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousuf Makharzah: The UAE, 'Godfather Of Shame', Mediated Water For Electricity Deal Between Jordan And The "Jewish Entity" In Order To Make People Accept That "Monstrous Entity"
					

In a Friday sermon aired on Hizb ut-Tahrir's Al-Waqiyah TV (Lebanon) on November 26, 2021, Palestinian Islamic scholar Y...




					www.memri.org
				


​Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousuf Makharzah: The UAE, 'Godfather Of Shame', Mediated Water For Electricity Deal Between Jordan And The "Jewish Entity" In Order To Make People Accept That "Monstrous Entity"​



It's one of those quaint islamo-colloquialisms when 'scholar' is attached to an Islamic loon who thinks it's 731 as opposed to 2021.

Who needs indoor plumbing and those new fangled things like electricity when ya' got the Koran and a heapin' helpin' of the gee-had.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  _Not that these have not been mentioned before_...



P F Tinmore said:


> Generalities. Could you be mire specific?


*(LIST of REFERENCES)*

 In General → to the → Specific in terms of international policy:  *ARTICLE 19 Policy*
◈    The *Joint Declaration on Freedom of Expression and "Fake News", Disinformation and Propaganda *Adopted, in Vienna, on 3 March 2017, 
​Restrictions on freedom of expression may also be imposed, as long as they are consistent with the requirements noted in paragraph 1(a), to prohibit advocacy of hatred on protected grounds that constitutes incitement to violence, discrimination, or hostility (in accordance with Article 20(2) of the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*)​
◈    Article 4 and Article 5, *Convention on the Rights of the Child*

◈    The list of prohibited grounds on incitement should be non-exhaustive and should cover grounds not mentioned in Article 20(2) of the  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR);

◈    States should explicitly recognize in domestic legislation the prohibition of all advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence as provided by Article 20(2) of the CCPR;

◈    Incitement prohibited by Article 20(2) of the CCPR and Article 4(a) of the *International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination* (CERD) should require the intent of the speaker to incite others to discrimination, hostility, or violence.

◈    *Article 68 • **Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War*. Geneva, 12 August 1949. PENAL LEGISLATION. V. PENALTIES. DEATH PENALTY
Covering the prosecution of protected persons who commit offenses that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> There have never been any "peace" proposals. They have all been surrender and give up land proposals.
> 
> Israel, Palestine and the myth of the 'generous peace offers'​





			
				AICE PROJECT said:
			
		

> "From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert held 36 negotiating sessions with Palestinian authority president Mahmoud Abbas in an effort to reach a peace agreement. Additional talks were being held at the same time between Israel’s Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and Palestinian negotiator Ahmed Qurei."



Olmert presented a comprehensive plan for peace on September 16, 2008. The main elements of Olmert’s proposal were the following:

Israel would cede almost 94% of the West Bank for the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Israel would retain approximately 6.4% of the West Bank. “All the lands that before 1967 were buffer zones between the two populations would have been split in half. In return there would be a swap of land (to the Palestinians) from Israel as it existed before 1967.” According to Condoleezza Rice, “Olmert gave Abbas cause to believe that he was willing to reduce that number to 5.8 percent.”
Sparsely populated settlements would be evacuated, but Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim and Ariel would be annexed by Israel. In exchange, Israel offered to give up area around Afula-Tirat Tzvi, the Lachish region, an area near Har Adar, and areas in the Judean desert and around Gaza equaling 5.8% of Israeli territory.
Maintain the contiguity of the Palestinian state and create a safe passage between the West Bank and Gaza. “It would have been a tunnel fully controlled by the Palestinians but not under Palestinian sovereignty, otherwise it would have cut the state of Israel in two.”
Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem would be under Jewish sovereignty, Arab neighborhoods would be under Palestinian sovereignty, so it could be the capital of a Palestinian state.
No one would have sovereignty in the holy basin in Jerusalem containing sites holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians, including the Mount of Olives, the City of David and part of the Arab neighborhood of Silwan. This area “would be jointly administered by five nations, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Palestinian state, Israel and the United States.”
No “right of return” for Palestinian refugees. Israel would agree on a humanitarian basis to accept 1,000 refugees every year for five years “on the basis that this would be the end of conflict and the end of claims.” An effort would also be made to establish an international fund to “compensate Palestinians for their suffering.” The agreement would also include recognition of the suffering of Jews from Arab countries who were forced out of their homes after 1948.
Palestine would have a strong police force, “everything needed for law enforcement.” It would have no army or air force.
The Palestinian border with Jordan would be patrolled by international forces – possibly from NATO. The Palestinians would not allow any foreign army to enter Palestine, and its government would not be permitted to enter into any military agreement with a country that does not recognize Israel.
Israel would retain the right to defend itself beyond the borders of a Palestinian state and to pursue terrorists across the border.
Israel would be allowed access to airspace over Palestine, and the Israel Defense Forces would have rights to the disproportionate use of the telecommunications spectrum.
*Thanks to AICE*:
*Sources: *
Ehud Olmert, “Stop Focusing on the Settlements to Achieve Peace in the Middle East,” _Washington Post_, (July 17, 2009);
Greg Sheridan, “Ehud Olmert still dreams of peace,” _The Australian_, (November 28, 2009);
Bernard Avishai, “A Plan for Peace That Still Could Be,” _New York Times Magazine_, (February 7, 2011);
Condoleezza Rice, “Condoleezza Rice Memoir: Peace-Process Anguish,” _Newsweek_, (October 23, 2011);
Avi Isacharoff, “Revealed: Olmert's 2008 peace offer to Palestinians,” _Jerusalem Post_, (May 24, 2013);
“Abbas says he rejected Olmert peace offer in 2008 over unseen map,” _i24NEWS_, (November 19, 2015);
Benny Begin, “Why Abbas Rejects Trump's Deal (And Any Other Deal With Israel),” _Haaretz_, (March 6, 2020).




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Olmert presented a comprehensive plan for peace on September 16, 2008. The main elements of Olmert’s proposal were the following:
> 
> Israel would cede almost 94% of the West Bank for the establishment of a Palestinian state.
> Israel would retain approximately 6.4% of the West Bank. “All the lands that before 1967 were buffer zones between the two populations would have been split in half. In return there would be a swap of land (to the Palestinians) from Israel as it existed before 1967.” According to Condoleezza Rice, “Olmert gave Abbas cause to believe that he was willing to reduce that number to 5.8 percent.”
> Sparsely populated settlements would be evacuated, but Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim and Ariel would be annexed by Israel. In exchange, Israel offered to give up area around Afula-Tirat Tzvi, the Lachish region, an area near Har Adar, and areas in the Judean desert and around Gaza equaling 5.8% of Israeli territory.
> Maintain the contiguity of the Palestinian state and create a safe passage between the West Bank and Gaza. “It would have been a tunnel fully controlled by the Palestinians but not under Palestinian sovereignty, otherwise it would have cut the state of Israel in two.”
> Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem would be under Jewish sovereignty, Arab neighborhoods would be under Palestinian sovereignty, so it could be the capital of a Palestinian state.
> No one would have sovereignty in the holy basin in Jerusalem containing sites holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians, including the Mount of Olives, the City of David and part of the Arab neighborhood of Silwan. This area “would be jointly administered by five nations, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Palestinian state, Israel and the United States.”
> No “right of return” for Palestinian refugees. Israel would agree on a humanitarian basis to accept 1,000 refugees every year for five years “on the basis that this would be the end of conflict and the end of claims.” An effort would also be made to establish an international fund to “compensate Palestinians for their suffering.” The agreement would also include recognition of the suffering of Jews from Arab countries who were forced out of their homes after 1948.
> Palestine would have a strong police force, “everything needed for law enforcement.” It would have no army or air force.
> The Palestinian border with Jordan would be patrolled by international forces – possibly from NATO. The Palestinians would not allow any foreign army to enter Palestine, and its government would not be permitted to enter into any military agreement with a country that does not recognize Israel.
> Israel would retain the right to defend itself beyond the borders of a Palestinian state and to pursue terrorists across the border.
> Israel would be allowed access to airspace over Palestine, and the Israel Defense Forces would have rights to the disproportionate use of the telecommunications spectrum.
> *Thanks to AICE*:
> *Sources: *
> Ehud Olmert, “Stop Focusing on the Settlements to Achieve Peace in the Middle East,” _Washington Post_, (July 17, 2009);
> Greg Sheridan, “Ehud Olmert still dreams of peace,” _The Australian_, (November 28, 2009);
> Bernard Avishai, “A Plan for Peace That Still Could Be,” _New York Times Magazine_, (February 7, 2011);
> Condoleezza Rice, “Condoleezza Rice Memoir: Peace-Process Anguish,” _Newsweek_, (October 23, 2011);
> Avi Isacharoff, “Revealed: Olmert's 2008 peace offer to Palestinians,” _Jerusalem Post_, (May 24, 2013);
> “Abbas says he rejected Olmert peace offer in 2008 over unseen map,” _i24NEWS_, (November 19, 2015);
> Benny Begin, “Why Abbas Rejects Trump's Deal (And Any Other Deal With Israel),” _Haaretz_, (March 6, 2020).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


WOW, that sucks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Art of Compromise
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  You have to ask:  How much better off would the Arab Palestinian be TODAY if they had accepted the Olmert peace offer in 2008?



P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, that sucks.


*(COMMENT)*

Get your thinking cap on...  

✦     How much longer are the greedy Arab Palestinians Upper Class going to hold back the Arab Palestinian People?​​✦     Who gains from the continuation of the Arab  Palestinian - Israeli Conflict?  ​​✦     Where is the wealth of donor dollars gone?​​✦     Are the Arab Palestinian People better off or worse off today THAN in 2005-2008?​​✦     Who is actually working n the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People?​​✦     Under Mahmoud Abbas → look at how much the Arab Palestinians have lost in economic and political terms?​
It is about time the Arab Palestinian People decide if they want to continue the downhill trend.... ...





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA Minister of Social Development: “UNRWA is not an institution that provides services to the refugees, but rather a political symbol of the right of return”*​
*Fatah Commissioner for Refugees and UNRWA: “Our cause is political and not humanitarian”*​
*PA Foreign Minister: “The refugees’ [political] rights are firm and do not wane with the passage of time.”*​

(full article online)









						Crucial PA admission: UNRWA is a political, not a humanitarian organization | PMW Analysis
					

PA Minister of Social Development: “UNRWA is not an institution that provides services to the refugees, but rather a political symbol of the right of return”




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: The Art of Compromise
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  You have to ask:  How much better off would the Arab Palestinian be TODAY if they had accepted the Olmert peace offer in 2008?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Get your thinking cap on...
> 
> ✦     How much longer are the greedy Arab Palestinians Upper Class going to hold back the Arab Palestinian People?​​✦     Who gains from the continuation of the Arab  Palestinian - Israeli Conflict?  ​​✦     Where is the wealth of donor dollars gone?​​✦     Are the Arab Palestinian People better off or worse off today THAN in 2005-2008?​​✦     Who is actually working n the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People?​​✦     Under Mahmoud Abbas → look at how much the Arab Palestinians have lost in economic and political terms?​
> It is about time the Arab Palestinian People decide if they want to continue the downhill trend.... ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> ✦ Who gains from the continuation of the Arab Palestinian - Israeli Conflict?


The Palestinians are gaining. More and more people are seeing Israel as the turd in the punch bowl.


RoccoR said:


> ✦ Who is actually working n the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People?


BDS, and the many other Palestinian events.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Saudi Journalist and researcher Abdullah bin Bijad said in a November 26, 2021 interview on MBC TV (Saudi Arabia) that Hamas is a murderous terrorist organization that only claims to represent the causes of Palestine, Jerusalem, and Islam, while in reality it is advancing Iranian plots to destroy and occupy the Arab world. He said that Hamas and its actions are political in nature, and not religious, and he criticized it for killing Palestinians and attacking journalists for the benefit of its political goals.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, that sucks.


It does to be you, I suppose. When you think of the cultural, economic and social stagnation that has gripped both of the Pally enclaves, they’ve become little more than mini versions of ISIS desperately trying to occupy their new-found caliphate.

I believe it was Ariel Sharon’s construction of the barrier wall along the West Bank that represented the end of the road for Israeli acceptance of any two-state solution. The wall was constructed to prevent the continued pally islamic terrorist attacks that originated from that region. The alternative was neither negotiation nor appeasement as the failure of all previous attempts at negotiation with Islamic retrogrades had demonstrated all too clearly that they understand only force of arms in response to ceaseless gee-had attacks.

So what are your options. Another 70 years of begging for welfare?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are gaining. More and more people are seeing Israel as the turd in the punch bowl.
> 
> BDS, and the many other Palestinian events.


What are Pally terrorists gaining? Welfare contributions are not what they used to be.

BDS is ineffective. People understand it’s a front for Islamic terrorists and their supporters.


A few leftists, (your BDS heroes), have accomplished virtually nothing.








						Israel Economy > GDP Facts & Stats
					

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy > GDP. Get the facts and compare to other countries!



					www.nationmaster.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What are Pally terrorists gaining? Welfare contributions are not what they used to be.
> 
> BDS is ineffective. People understand it’s a front for Islamic terrorists and their supporters.
> 
> 
> A few leftists, (your BDS heroes), have accomplished virtually nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Economy > GDP Facts & Stats
> 
> 
> Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy > GDP. Get the facts and compare to other countries!
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com


I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.



And we hear all the sportscars on which Arabs arrive
to li(n)e up for unemployment and social security each week...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.


No. You didn’t.

You needed to dance around the failure of the Pallys to make any meaningful attempt at forming a functioning civil society.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  _Not telling the whole story._



P F Tinmore said:


> I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.


*(CHARTS & GRAPHS)*
.......................................................UNEMPLOYMENT TRENDS
................................Israel......................................................West Bank & Gaza Strip






...............................Israeli GDP...............................West Bank & Gaza Strip GDP





............................Israeli Poverty Rate.....................West Bank & Gaza Strip Poverty Rate





*(COMMENT)*

Almost every country in the industrialized world is experiencing an Increase (_COVID 19 Pandemic_) in the Poverty Rate.  Israel's rate of negative change (_increase in poverty_) is ≈ 1%, with an overall percentage of poverty at ≈ 2.5% with a general trend downward.   It is a very different story in the West Bank & Gaza Strip.  We can definitely see a 3% to 4% increase the generalized trend is upward with an overall poverty rate of ≈ 22% in the West Bank & Gaza Strip.  Israel had an upward tick in the Unemployment Rate of ≈ 2%, the overall unemployment rate is less than 5% (_a slight increase_), the unemployment rate in the West Bank & Gaza Strip is greater than 25% and increasing.  

Israel's per capita Income drop slightly (_corresponding to the slight increase in unemployment_) and now stands greater than ≈ $40K with a GDP of ≈ $400B.  Whereas the West Bank & Gaza Strip is slightly greater than ≈ $3K with a GDP of ≈ $15B.

There is no question → that the poverty rate is a very important indicator, but it cannot be looked an indicator of health, wealth, and the standard of living.  There is a huge gap (_ratio-wise_) between what the State of Israel accomplishes for its citizens and that of what the Ramallah/Gaza Governments have been able to do.  The Israeli poverty rate is 5 times better than that of the West Bank & Gaza Strip.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Photos have also been one of the most effective propaganda tools for those wishing to smear Israel, with such images now frequently “going viral” on social media.

A case in point illustrating this fact came last week when a Facebook user posted a black and white image of three women alongside the caption: “Miss Palestine with her two Runners-up in 1947. Very fashionable and celebration without fear!”

It quickly garnered hundreds of likes and shares, while comments included: “The most important thing without fear. Totally different from the time we live in unfortunately,” and “The era of ancient history and civilization before its desecration.”

However, a reverse image search on Google reveals the shot actually depicts competitors in the Miss Europe pageant in 1930 and the women are from Russia, Austria and Holland. The picture was featured on a postcard by Alfred Noyer, a French photographer who worked out of his studio in Paris up until the 1940s.






THE TRUTH: Image is actually of Miss Europe candidates in 1930


While this may not be the most egregious example of spreading falsehoods through the medium of photography, it is emblematic of the problem in which images are used as vehicles to misrepresent the truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The term “Pallywood” – a portmanteau of Palestinian and Hollywood – was coined by Richard Landes, who produced a short documentary film in 2005 that demonstrated that photographs and footage are routinely manipulated to push anti-Israel propaganda.

(full article online)









						Snapshot of 'Miss Palestine' Serves as Reminder of How Images Distort Reality of Israeli-Palestinian Conflict | Honest Reporting
					

A striking photo is a powerful thing. The right image can change minds, tug at heartstrings, illicit anger and prompt tears. Pictures are potent;




					honestreporting.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
> ⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  _Not telling the whole story._
> 
> 
> *(CHARTS & GRAPHS)*
> .......................................................UNEMPLOYMENT TRENDS
> ................................Israel......................................................West Bank & Gaza Strip
> View attachment 571070View attachment 571071
> ...............................Israeli GDP...............................West Bank & Gaza Strip GDP
> View attachment 571073View attachment 571074
> ............................Israeli Poverty Rate.....................West Bank & Gaza Strip Poverty Rate
> View attachment 571077View attachment 571078
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Almost every country in the industrialized world is experiencing an Increase (_COVID 19 Pandemic_) in the Poverty Rate.  Israel's rate of negative change (_increase in poverty_) is ≈ 1%, with an overall percentage of poverty at ≈ 2.5% with a general trend downward.   It is a very different story in the West Bank & Gaza Strip.  We can definitely see a 3% to 4% increase the generalized trend is upward with an overall poverty rate of ≈ 22% in the West Bank & Gaza Strip.  Israel had an upward tick in the Unemployment Rate of ≈ 2%, the overall unemployment rate is less than 5% (_a slight increase_), the unemployment rate in the West Bank & Gaza Strip is greater than 25% and increasing.
> 
> Israel's per capita Income drop slightly (_corresponding to the slight increase in unemployment_) and now stands greater than ≈ $40K with a GDP of ≈ $400B.  Whereas the West Bank & Gaza Strip is slightly greater than ≈ $3K with a GDP of ≈ $15B.
> 
> There is no question → that the poverty rate is a very important indicator, but it cannot be looked an indicator of health, wealth, and the standard of living.  There is a huge gap (_ratio-wise_) between what the State of Israel accomplishes for its citizens and that of what the Ramallah/Gaza Governments have been able to do.  The Israeli poverty rate is 5 times better than that of the West Bank & Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


I only said that because an Israeli charity with its hand out was talking about all the poverty and hungry people in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Not a "crucial admission" but a rare bit of honesty from the forever welfare agency that maintains the Pally facade.










						Crucial PA admission: UNRWA is a political, not a humanitarian organization | PMW Analysis
					

PA Minister of Social Development: “UNRWA is not an institution that provides services to the refugees, but rather a political symbol of the right of return”




					www.palwatch.org
				




Crucial PA admission: UNRWA is a political, not a humanitarian organization

Itamar Marcus  | Dec 2, 2021

PA Minister of Social Development: “UNRWA is not an institution that provides services to the refugees, but rather a political symbol of the right of return”Fatah Commissioner for Refugees and UNRWA: “Our cause is political and not humanitarian”PA Foreign Minister: “The refugees’ [political] rights are firm and do not wane with the passage of time.”

Donor countries should be concerned about what is happening with their money. The international community is giving UNRWA a billion dollars this year because it wants to solve the humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugee camps’ residents. However, contrary to the goals of the donors, the PA insists that UNRWA is a political organization serving the political goals of the PA and the PLO.


----------



## Hollie

The "leader" of the PIJ islamic terrorist franchise is lamenting the growing sense of "who cares" among Arab states relative to the black hole of want and need that is the Pallys and their perceived entitlements. 

Aligning with the Shia heretics was an unforgivable sin as viewed by the Sunni Arab world. 











						Palestinian Islamic Jihad Leader Ziyad Nakhalah Criticizes Hamas For Facilitating The Work Of Gaza Laborers In Israel, Adds: The Arab Regimes Just Want The Palestinian Cause To End, One Way Or Another
					

Ziyad Nakhalah, the Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), said in a November 24, 2021 interview on M...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Jihad Leader Ziyad Nakhalah Criticizes Hamas For Facilitating The Work Of Gaza Laborers In Israel, Adds: The Arab Regimes Just Want The Palestinian Cause To End, One Way Or Another


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Israeli Charities
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> I only said that because an Israeli charity with its hand out was talking about all the poverty and hungry people in Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, the Abrahamic Religions have a tradition of "helping the less fortunate."  And most countries have a category, within their population, of those less fortunate.  





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad terrorist dies after a "work accident"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(They keep wishing and hoping.......Islamic dreams )

Hamas bureau chief Ismail Haniyeh also alleges that the US withdrawal from Afghanistan would lead to additional retreats, which would weaken Israel.​
(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/12/03/in-turkey-hamas-leader-urges-plan-to-bring-down-abraham-accords/


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: What does an Alliance Really Mean?
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*PREFACE:*  As a general rule, when America makes an alliance, the ordinary citizen thinks that it is an arrangement whereby the signatories in the alliance will come together in a common cause of a defensive nature against a hostile and dangerous third-party threat.



Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas bureau chief Ismail Haniyeh also alleges that the US withdrawal from Afghanistan would lead to additional retreats, which would weaken Israel.​


*(COMMENT)*

A common cause alliance is only defensively effective if a hostile threat perceives the alliance as credible and will more than likely be activated by an agreed-upon trigger.   The KEY here is that the hostile third party actually thinks the alliance will be activated and represents a danger to their objective.  

*(WEAKNESS to the ALLIANCE)*

In most cases, the third-party hostile element will consider the confrontation *IF and only IF* (IFF) the mutual defense alliance is not likely to materialize on engagement, and the hostile element will win more than they lose.  Against opponents like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) or other irrational organizations with similar leadership, where the hostile opposing force places very expendable value on human life (_or has nothing to lose_) the concept of risk aversion will not have the desired effect.  The Arab Palestinians believe that, in the case of a confrontation, they will win more than they lose.  In all the recent engagements since  Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) initiated Operation "Returning Echo" (2012), international pressure was such that Israel had to return all territory overrun in the suppression of HAMAS Rocket and Mortar attacks and other such significant hostile acts.  Essentially the International Community is underwriting  (_more donor contributions and aid_) and ensuring that there was no territorial risk on the part of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).  The HoAP have nothing of value they can risk.  They go to the betting window, risk their bet, and if they lose the cashier is required to give the money back.  Given that scenario, how many times would you g back to the betting window?  And then, the donors, at Gambling Anonymous would give the HoAP even more money that they can use to place a bet → at no risk.

There is no alliance (_Greece to Egypt_) in which the US would have any reasonable assurance of receiving aid in any defense emergency (_excluding that which the US pays the costs_); with the exception of Israel.  And that comes at a huge risk to the Israelis since they have no real _Expeditionary Force_.  Any deployment the Israelis would make would subtract and endanger the defense of Israeli sovereignty.

If anything, the US needs to avoid placing the IDF in such a perilous situation.  There is some truth HAMAS has here.

Just My Thought,





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

In part, I agree with the Islamic “activist”. The notion that the Pally Islamic terrorist franchises will ever be capable of forming a civil government capable of performing the functions of a State are rather slim.













						CAIR Official Zahra Billoo: The Two-State Solution Is "Laughable"; Any Organization That Promotes It Is An Enemy; ADL, Jewish Federation, "Zionist Synagogues," Hillel Chapters Will Throw You Under The Bus
					

American activist Zahra Billoo, the executive-director of the San Francisco Bay Area branch of the Council on American-I...




					www.memri.org
				





CAIR Official Zahra Billoo: The Two-State Solution Is "Laughable"; Any Organization That Promotes It Is An Enemy; ADL, Jewish Federation, "Zionist Synagogues," Hillel Chapters Will Throw You Under The Bus​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The next generation of futureless, mindless welfare dependent sociopaths is being groomed in those (thankfully), shrinking Islamic Hell holes where Arabs-Moslems occupy territory.














						Girls sing: Jews are “the world’s dogs” and “impure” on PA TV | PMW Analysis
					

Jews “defile Jerusalem”




					palwatch.org
				




Girls sing: Jews are “the world’s dogs” and “impure” on PA TV​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 1, 2021

*Jews are “the world’s dogs”*​
*Jews “defile Jerusalem”*​
*Jews are “the impure”*​



The role of the program _Giants of Endurance_ broadcast by official PA TV is to serve Palestinian terrorist prisoners and their families. As a service to the terrorists, who watch PA TV in Israeli prisons, _Giants of Endurance_ visits their relatives and broadcasts from their villages and homes, passes on greetings from family members and updates the terrorists on their children and their achievements. The program also broadcasts home videos of children of terrorists reciting poems, singing songs, and delivering messages and greetings to their terrorist relatives in prison.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

A heartwarming moment. The fulfillment of a short life for another disposable female in the Islamic Death Cult. 











						Grow up and kill Jews - PA official to son of dead terrorist stabber at ‎the morgue ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Grow up and kill Jews - that is the comforting message that Jenin District Deputy Governor Kamal Abu Al-Rub passed on to the young son of terrorist stabber Israa Khzaimiah, while they stood next to her dead body draped in the Palestinian flag at the morgue.




					www.palwatch.org
				





Grow up and kill Jews - PA official to son of dead terrorist stabber at ‎the morgue ‎​Itamar Marcus  | Nov 28, 2021



Grow up and kill Jews  - that is the comforting message that Jenin District Deputy Governor Kamal Abu Al-Rub passed on to the young son of terrorist stabber Israa Khzaimiah, while they stood next to her dead body draped in the Palestinian flag at the morgue.

Israa Khzaimiah was a 30-year-old female Palestinian terrorist who attempted to stab Israeli police officers in Jerusalem’s Old City on Sept. 30, 2021. She was killed by the officers during her attack.


----------



## Hollie

The Pally Islamic gee-had “leader” has a problem with Gaza laborers working in Israel. Bummer, dude. Tell the Iran Mullocrats to fork over more money for welfare money. 


Palestinian Islamic Jihad Leader Ziyad Nakhalah Criticizes Hamas For Facilitating The Work Of Gaza Laborers In Israel, Adds: The Arab Regimes Just Want The Palestinian Cause To End, One Way Or Another​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist “neutralized”.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notice that the attacker passes by several people - and probably passed by many others earlier - and only decided to attack the visibly religious Jew.

If he is anti-Zionist, then why not attack any Israeli? Why choose the one with a hat and beard?

Because this was never about "Palestine." Palestinians are taught to hate Jews, and religious Jews are their preferred targets. 

Here's another video, proudly uploaded to TikTok:

(full article and videos  online)









						Two more examples of Jew-hatred that pretends to be "anti-Zionism"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anti-PA ‘intifada’ in Bethlehem threatens Christmas festivities
					

Student stabbed to death at Jenin university




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(How many times can Jews "declare war" on Arabs without "declaring war" )


*PA governor: Israeli president’s “invasion of” the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron is a “declaration of war”*​
*PA: “Extremist” Israeli president “defiled” the Cave of the Patriarchs*​
*Abbas’ advisor threatens terror, comparing Israeli President’s visit to Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount in 2000, which Arafat used as excuse to launch 5-year terror campaign – the second Intifada*​
*Columnist of PA daily likens Herzog to Jewish mass-murderer Goldstein*​

(full article online)









						PA: Israeli president’s lighting Hanukah candle at Cave of the Patriarchs is “declaration of war” | PMW Analysis
					

PA: “Extremist” Israeli president “defiled” the Cave of the Patriarchs




					www.palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Fatah Central Committee Member Abbas Zaki: The Palestinians Are An Army In The Belly Of A Ghoulish, U.S.-Backed Beast; We Are Victims Of ARAMCO's Discovery Of Oil In The Region​








						Fatah Central Committee Member Abbas Zaki: The Palestinians Are An Army In The Belly Of A Ghoulish, U.S.-Backed Beast; We Are Victims Of ARAMCO's Discovery Of Oil In The Region
					

On November 30, 2021, the Parliamentarians for AlQuds YouTube channel uploaded a speech by Fatah Central Committee membe...




					www.memri.org
				








Well, gee Abbas. Consider doing the honorable thing and refuse the Great Satan welfare money.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



That's outrageous!!!!

Why is this 8 year old in public without her husband?


----------



## Hollie

Identified as a "cultural" activity, the Pally cultural of mass murder / suicide was reinforcing those attributes.

Abusing young girls as that has been a "cultural" proclivity of islamism since the 7th century. 











						“We replaced bracelets with weapons… Pull the trigger” – PA TV terror song | PMW Analysis
					

Love of the rifle – a repeating PA theme




					palwatch.org
				




“We replaced bracelets with weapons… Pull the trigger” – PA TV terror song​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 7, 2021

*Love of the rifle – a repeating PA theme*​



During a broadcast of a cultural dance performance on official PA TV, Palestinian viewers could hear a well-known song calling for terror:










> *Lyrics:* “The orchard called us to the struggle
> We replaced bracelets with weapons
> We attacked the despicable [Zionists]
> Pull the trigger
> We shall redeem Jerusalem, Nablus, and the country”
> [Official PA TV, _Palestine This Morning_, Nov. 15, 2021]


----------



## Hollie

Congrats to Senator Tom Cotton and aligned Republicans who want to make a change to US policy relative to Pally Islamic terrorism. 












						Taylor Force Act addition seeks to block 'pay for slay'
					

“Such flouting of anti-terrorism financial regulations is only possible through the maintenance or use of correspondent accounts at United States banks.”




					m.jpost.com
				





WASHINGTON - A group of 13 Senate Republicans, spearheaded by Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR), introduced on Monday the “Taylor Force Martyr Payment Prevention Act,” a legislation “aimed at eliminating Palestinian 'martyr payments.'”

According to Cotton and his colleagues, banks in “nominally friendly jurisdictions” evade United States anti-terrorism sanctions by avoiding an official presence in the United States “and continue to knowingly provide banking services, including dollar-denominated transactions, for terrorist organizations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Congrats to Senator Tom Cotton and aligned Republicans who want to make a change to US policy relative to Pally Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taylor Force Act addition seeks to block 'pay for slay'
> 
> 
> “Such flouting of anti-terrorism financial regulations is only possible through the maintenance or use of correspondent accounts at United States banks.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON - A group of 13 Senate Republicans, spearheaded by Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR), introduced on Monday the “Taylor Force Martyr Payment Prevention Act,” a legislation “aimed at eliminating Palestinian 'martyr payments.'”
> 
> According to Cotton and his colleagues, banks in “nominally friendly jurisdictions” evade United States anti-terrorism sanctions by avoiding an official presence in the United States “and continue to knowingly provide banking services, including dollar-denominated transactions, for terrorist organizations.


"Pay for slay" is an Israeli propaganda term.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> "Pay for slay" is an Israeli propaganda term.


Actually, it's a term that describes the actions of organized Islamic terrorist networks.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose her background leads her to believe that others are responsible for providing the things she wants. 







__





						Watch: Rashida Tlaib complains taxpayers haven't paid her student loans
					

<p>U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., has complained to her colleagues in Congress that they haven't yet told taxpayers to...




					dailyangle.com
				





U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., has complained to her colleagues in Congress that they haven't yet told taxpayers to take care of her remaining $70,000 in student-loan debt she incurred for her law degree.


----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, Pally welfare money is used in their propaganda campaign to press a supremacist politico-religious ideology.











						Swiss money misused by Palestinian NGO to deny Israel's right to exist at cultural event | PMW Analysis
					

Once again donor money is misused by Palestinians.




					palwatch.org
				




Swiss money misused by Palestinian NGO to deny Israel's right to exist at cultural event​Itamar Marcus  | Dec 8, 2021
Once again donor money is misused by Palestinians.
Western donor countries presumably want their money going to Palestinians to promote peace. Palestinian Media Watch has found another example of Western money being misused by a Palestinian NGO to teach children to anticipate a world without Israel.

The Abd Al-Muhaisen Al-Qattan Institution in cooperation with Al-Aqsa University held a cultural event in the Gaza Strip, which was funded by the *Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation*. One of the songs performed at the event taught Palestinian youth that the Israeli cities Safed, Tiberias, Acre, Haifa, Nazareth, and Beit Shean are actually cities of “Palestine”:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Actually, it's a term that describes the actions of organized Islamic terrorist networks.


"Terrorist" is another Israeli propaganda term.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> "Terrorist" is another Israeli propaganda term.



Your hurt feelings don't change an obvious reality of Pally Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Non-breathing Islamic terrorists are one way to put the _had_ in gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

Hani will not be down for breakfast.












						Reports: Hamas Operative Killed in Tunnel Collapse
					

Three Hamas terror tunnels have collapsed in the past month.




					www.jewishpress.com
				






Terror tunnel in Gaza

A Hamas terrorist died as a result of the collapse of a tunnel east of Gaza City on Monday, several sources reported.

The terrorist was said to be Hani Sami Salah, 26, a resident of the Al-Tufah neighborhood in Gaza City.


----------



## Hollie

Suggesting tha Islamic terrorists could use their welfare money for schools, hospitals, etc., ignores the deeply held religious beliefs that drive Pally islamic terrorism.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Pay to Slay
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> "Pay for slay" is an Israeli propaganda term.


*(COMMENT)*

Stop - Back-up!

Are you saying that the term "Pay to Slay" is not accurate?

The Ramallah and Gaza Government call for attacks on Jews.
Attackers are hailed as martyrs.
Attackers (or survivors) are paid either a lump-sum monetary reward or a stipend for the attacks.
It sounds like (to me) that it is murder (the terrorist), conspiracy to murder (the governments) with the special circumstance of monetary gain (the payment).








_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute when they sing "A Jdam will make me a martyr"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Once again donor money is misused by Palestinians.

Western donor countries presumably want their money going to Palestinians to promote peace. Palestinian Media Watch has found another example of Western money being misused by a Palestinian NGO to teach children to anticipate a world withoutIsrael.

The Abd Al-Muhaisen Al-Qattan Institution in cooperation with Al-Aqsa University held a cultural event in the Gaza Strip, which was funded by the *Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation*. One of the songs performed at the event taught Palestinian youth that the Israeli cities Safed, Tiberias, Acre, Haifa, Nazareth, and Beit Shean are actually cities of “Palestine”:

(full article online)









						Swiss money misused by Palestinian NGO to deny Israel's right to exist at cultural event | PMW Analysis
					

Once again donor money is misused by Palestinians.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

“We replaced bracelets with weapons… Pull the trigger” – PA TV terror song | PMW Analysis
					

Love of the rifle – a repeating PA theme




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Having lost faith in the Palestinian Authority, many Palestinians are reverting to tribal law. With tensions on the rise, we may soon see a popular Palestinian uprising that brings the Fatah party's rule to an end.​
(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/will-the-palestinians-soon-have-their-own-arab-spring/


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Having lost faith in the Palestinian Authority, many Palestinians are reverting to tribal law. With tensions on the rise, we may soon see a popular Palestinian uprising that brings the Fatah party's rule to an end.​
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/will-the-palestinians-soon-have-their-own-arab-spring/



That reads like another self-inflicted disaster for the Pallys. Hamas and their Iranian backers would be quick to take advantage of the collapse of Fatah. That might quickly devolve into a very messy civil war as the Sunni Arab states go hunting for Iranians and Shia agents.


----------



## Hollie

The “lone Pally terrorist” may not tell the whole story. These are often young, disposable sacrificial lambs who have been raised from birth to view their death, in the act of murder / suicide, as a religious and patriotic duty. ​​The Phenomenon of Lone Palestinian Terrorists​ The Phenomenon of Lone Palestinian Terrorists

Yoni Ben Menachem
 December 8, 2021








(AP Photo/Majdi Mohammed)

There is a growing concern in Israel’s security establishment regarding the increase in terrorism and the emergence of lone terrorists in light of Hamas and Islamic Jihad threats.
Hamas may be trying to ride the latest wave of attacks to expand it into a new “knife intifada” like the one perpetrated in 2015.
Palestinian lawyer Ziad Abu Ziyad challenged Palestinian leaders: “Where is your national resistance plan? How long will our children and youth remain like sheep without a shepherd? Why do you cheer and glorify the useless individual actions to cover up your leadership’s helplessness?.


----------



## Hollie

I really like Ted Cruz.


----------



## Hollie

To keep the islamic terrorists on a short leash, it takes extraordinary measures. 











						Israel Completes Massive 'Game-Changer' Wall Along Gaza Strip
					

Israel has completed its massive 30-foot wall at the Gaza Strip, and defense officials are calling it a "game-changer," reports Newsmax Jerusalem correspondent Daniel Cohen. The wall runs 40 miles...




					www.newsmax.com
				




Israel Completes Massive 'Game-Changer' Wall Along Gaza Strip.

Israel has completed its massive 30-foot wall at the Gaza Strip, and defense officials are calling it a "game-changer," reports Newsmax Jerusalem correspondent Daniel Cohen. 

The wall runs 40 miles, end-to-end, and covers the entire length of the Gaza Strip both above and underground. It is a "modern, technically advanced marvel," Cohen reported Wednesday on Newsmax's "National Report."

"It's equipped with cameras, sensors, radar, and remote-controlled weaponry," he added. "The barrier stops those who try to cross above ground and more importantly, below ground as well. [This is] an important countermeasure developed after Hamas militants used tunnels to blindside Israeli troops in a war in 2014."


----------



## Hollie

Anti Islamic terrorism device.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar praised the terror attacks against Jews in Jerusalem, promised that not an inch of land can be compromised on, and told Great Britain, "We are a national Islamic liberation movement whose duty is to liberate its homeland and its people from occupation. If that is terrorism, then yes, we are terrorists."

Meanwhile, 50,000 Muslims went to the Temple Mount this morning.





If you think this was just to worship, think again.

The worshipers came out of the Al-Aqsa Mosque chanting slogans for Al-Aqsa and Al-Quds in front of the Israeli police.

Palestine Today writes, "It is noteworthy that hundreds of people performed the dawn prayer in the premises of Al-Aqsa Mosque in response to calls from Jerusalem institutions; In response to the massive incursions carried out by extremist settlers that accompanied the days of the so-called Jewish Festival of Lights or 'Hanukah'; During which the settlers and their rabbis carried out provocative tours and performed Talmudic rituals in the courtyards of Al-Aqsa and its squares where they received false explanations about the alleged temple."

(full article online)









						Tens of thousands gather in Gaza and on the Temple Mount, all hating Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Religion of death sees no problems with murdering people for land )

Fawzi Barhoum, a spokesman for the Hamas movement, said that the increased terrorist activity in Judea and Samaria draws its inspiration from the spirit of jihad and the struggle in the Gaza Strip. "Balata, Nablus, Qalqilya and all our cities, har this - in stabbing the settlers with a knife and in confrontations with the soldiers of the occupation, you gave us back the hope of victory and liberation," said Barhum.

Barhum called on Israeli Arabs to continue shooting and stabbing the "occupation and its settlers."

(full article online)









						Hamas spokesman: Stabbings give us hope
					

A Hamas spokesperson called on Israeli Arabs to step up attacks against 'setters' saying it 'gives hope to Gaza'




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Does he offer accepting Israel and living in peace with all Jews?  )

_While harshly condemning Israel's policy and the police officers' killing of the stabber, calling it "murder in the full sense of the word," Abu Zayyad also directed sharp criticism at the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah and Gaza, which glorifies these attacks instead of stopping them. He accused the Palestinian leaders of letting young men and women spill their blood in vain instead of formulating a comprehensive national plan for the struggle against Israel. Resistance against Israel should not be a matter of individuals acting on their own discretion, he said, for such attacks do not serve the national Palestinian goal of ending the occupation and establishing an independent Palestinian state, but only cause further rounds of violence and bloodshed. He called on the Palestinian leadership to stop shirking its responsibility and formulate a clear plan for the struggle against Israel, as part of which these individual attacks will stop.[1]

It should be noted that Ziad Abu Zayyad frequently criticizes the Palestinian leadership and presents alternatives to its conduct and policies.[2]_

(full article online)









						Former Palestinian Authority Minister: Attacks By Individual Palestinians Do Not Serve Our Cause And Must Stop; The Leadership Is Letting Our Youngsters Shed Their Blood To Cover Up For Its Incompetence
					






					www.memri.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Coherent Anti-Israeli Campaign
※→ Sixties Fan et al,

BLUF:  Forer Minister of state _Ziad Abu Zayyad_ is not a moderate_.  _Mister Zayyad is advocating a Resistance Plan that includes a Centralized structure that serves to coordinate Hostile Arab Palestinian Operations with the objective of ending the occupation and establishing an independent Palestinian state.  



Sixties Fan said:


> _Resistance against Israel should not be a matter of individuals acting on their own discretion, he said, for such attacks do not serve the national Palestinian goal of ending the occupation and establishing an independent Palestinian state, but only cause further rounds of violence and bloodshed. He called on the Palestinian leadership to stop shirking its responsibility and formulate a clear plan for the struggle against Israel, as part of which these individual attacks will stop.[1]_


*(COMMENT)*

Minister Zayyad is much more dangerous than any other potential leader since a time before the Oslo Accords.

He wants to unify the assets of all the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) terrorist organizations under one leadership and link HoAP Attacks in the best exploitable manner.

Minister Zayyad's vision is sound.  It will take advantage of weaknesses in Israel's attempt to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.

We should hope that Minister Zayyad does NOT achieve his political aspirations.  Unlike the current Gaza and Raasmallah Governments, Zayyad is in it for Ideological Reasons (_achievements of actual political impact_), whereas Premier Issam al-Da’alis (HAMAS) and President Abbas (PLO/PA) are in it for the Wealth, Power, and Prestige.  This may sound strange → but it is much more difficult to quell an idea (_Ideology nationalism and independence_) than it is to quell a general uprising.

Israel needs to Arclight their Idea of the future in the West Bank and Jerusalem before Zayyad gets in there first.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

If not for welfare money heaped on the Pally terrorist franchises, there are obvious questions about the viability of those Islamic terrorist syndicates. 











						Qatar's Eid Charity Subsidizes Palestinian Terrorism
					

In recent decades, Qatar has financed ventures that have bolstered its image as a patron of culture, progress and hospitality. From elite soccer sponsorships, funding of Western universities, its airline (the "world's best") and its Al Jazeera network,




					www.meforum.org
				





Cue the Qatar Committee for the Reconstruction of Gaza (QCRG), which has received approximately $3 million from the Eid Charity, per the documents. A Qatari government agency that has received hundreds of millions of dollars in years past, the QCRG purports to be humanitarian, boasting about its grants to the "Palestinian people" and featuring photos of innocent beneficiaries: children and hospital patients.

Though sustaining life, the QCRG simultaneously endorses those who proactively seek genocide, such as the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), a mostly Iran-funded terrorist organization committed to Israel's "destruction."


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Shifting Donor and Foreign Aid to Various Outlets.
※→ Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*: The are many in the Intelligence, Counterterrorism, and Security business that watches, with raised eyebrows, the funding flowing into Gaza (*not necessarily the West Bank*) from suspicious sources.



Hollie said:


> If not for welfare money heaped on the Pally terrorist franchises, there are obvious questions about the viability of those Islamic terrorist syndicates.
> ...     Though sustaining life, the QCRG simultaneously endorses those who proactively seek genocide, such as the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), a mostly Iran-funded terrorist organization committed to Israel's "destruction."


*(COMMENT)*
.
Hollies contribution does not allow us to forget these sidebar issues.

The Gaza Government, Governmental associates, and terrorists all enjoy receiving funding from both legitimate, illegitimate, and construction/reconstruction projects, in the hundreds of millions of dollars each year.  That is no surprise.  The Qatari Committee for the Reconstruction of Gaza (QCRG) is just one such source.  But there are suspected banking accounts in foreign locations that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) use as donors deposit funds directly to the account which the HoAP use to purchase dual-purpose products and smuggled materials.



			
				Times of Israel Old News said:
			
		

> (_More than five years old)   "_Yet despite the hunger, heat and financial hardship, the hundreds of workers digging tunnels under the Israeli border, inside the Gaza Strip and on the Egyptian border, kept on with their labor. That they worked at a slower pace was not because of the fast. Hundreds of Palestinians, members of Hamas, continued building the network, including new attack tunnels to reach Israel in the next war and smuggling tunnels to Sinai. The problem they have encountered over the past few weeks, causing a slowdown in the pace of digging, is a severe shortage of some of the materials critically important for the tunnel industry."
> *SOURCE:  *How’s Hamas getting supplies for rockets and tunnels?  By AVI ISSACHAROFF 20 July 2015



Smugglers and Contraband Runners have always found profit in cases such as the Israeli-Palestine Conflict.  And they do have some political influence that helps keep the infiltration revenue on track.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the funding flowing into Gaza (*not necessarily the West Bank*) from suspicious sources.


What about Israel's suspicious sources?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What about Israel's suspicious sources?


What sources?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> What sources?



Jews?


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Shifting Donor and Foreign Aid to Various Outlets.
> ※→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: The are many in the Intelligence, Counterterrorism, and Security business that watches, with raised eyebrows, the funding flowing into Gaza (*not necessarily the West Bank*) from suspicious sources.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Hollies contribution does not allow us to forget these sidebar issues.
> 
> The Gaza Government, Governmental associates, and terrorists all enjoy receiving funding from both legitimate, illegitimate, and construction/reconstruction projects, in the hundreds of millions of dollars each year.  That is no surprise.  The Qatari Committee for the Reconstruction of Gaza (QCRG) is just one such source.  But there are suspected banking accounts in foreign locations that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) use as donors deposit funds directly to the account which the HoAP use to purchase dual-purpose products and smuggled materials.
> 
> 
> 
> Smugglers and Contraband Runners have always found profit in cases such as the Israeli-Palestine Conflict.  And they do have some political influence that helps keep the infiltration revenue on track.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Agreed, Rocco. Not much that I can add other than:

I think what is so striking is that despite the obvious connections to Pally terrorism, UNRWA just blithely proceeds on with their foreign donor money… because they can. There’s no real effort to stop the fraud. With no accountability, UNRWA violates its own UN mandate (Resolution 302) (General Assembly Resolution 302 | UNRWA, which states (Paragraph 5): "constructive measures should be undertaken at an early date with a view to the termination of international assistance for relief." Paragraph 7 indicates only two responsibilities: to work with Arab governments to provide jobs for the refugees and to help Arab governments end (_not perpetuate_) international assistance, _“(b) To consult with the interested Near Eastern Governments concerning measures to be taken by them preparatory to the time when international assistance for relief and works projects is no longer available;_” UNRWA has been doing the exact opposite.

As we’ve seen, the bloat and waste that is UNRWA has become a terrestrial black hole.

It’s remarkable that tens of billions of dollars have been showered on the Pallys over the last 70 years providing "Pally refugees" and their descendants with the funds to wage Islamic gee-had. Multiple generations of Pally thieves, crooks and swindlers have become incredibly rich. Amidst the billions of welfare dollars showered on the Pallys, the "Right of Return", which is a thinly veiled Islamic call to arms for war against the Jews, is the Pally basic, non-negotiable demand to reject Israel's existence and thus fuels Pally terrorism. It reinforces Pally’s belief in their phony victimization, promotes a culture of self-hate and self-destruction, and sabotages any chance for change. UNRWA facilitates this mess.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Shifting Donor and Foreign Aid to Various Outlets.
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*(OPPOSING VIEW)* 

Israel gets no illegal funding from sources, or for the purposes, that violate international protocols.
Instrument regarding the financing of terrorism​1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of TerrorismPDF​
Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.





P F Tinmore said:


> What about Israel's suspicious sources?


*(COMMENT)*

But even if Israel was getting funding from suspicious sources *(I cannot imagine who that would be*), it is very poor logic.  The fact that Israell has done something unjust or dishonest is no justification for the Arab Palestinians operating in a similar way.  This is the:

Remember that two wrongs do not make a right.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Remember that two wrongs do not make a right.


What wrongs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Shifting Donor and Foreign Aid to Various Outlets.
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(OPPOSING VIEW)*
> 
> Israel gets no illegal funding from sources, or for the purposes, that violate international protocols.
> Instrument regarding the financing of terrorism​1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of TerrorismPDF​
> Requires parties to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> Commits States to hold those who finance terrorism criminally, civilly or administratively liable for such acts; and
> Provides for the identification, freezing and seizure of funds allocated for terrorist activities, as well as for the sharing of the forfeited funds with other States on a case-by-case basis. Bank secrecy is no longer adequate justification for refusing to cooperate.
> View attachment 574704
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But even if Israel was getting funding from suspicious sources *(I cannot imagine who that would be*), it is very poor logic.  The fact that Israell has done something unjust or dishonest is no justification for the Arab Palestinians operating in a similar way.  This is the:
> View attachment 574707
> Remember that two wrongs do not make a right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





			https://www.usmessageboard.com/attachments/avoiding-the-question-fallacy-png.574707/
		


You are talking to someone who never gets his questions answered.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Shifting Donor and Foreign Aid to Various Outlets.
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> What wrongs?


*(COMMENT)*

The wrongs that the HoAP commit are just too numerous to name.  But here are two obvious examples.

◈   Where do the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) get the funding to provide rifles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, and components to assemble long-range rockets into Israel?​​◈   Where do the HoAP get the funding to build underground tunnels that breach Israeli territorial integrity?​


P F Tinmore said:


> https://www.usmessageboard.com/attachments/avoiding-the-question-fallacy-png.574707/
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking to someone who never gets his questions answered.


*(COMMENT)*

You always get an answer to your direct questions.

You make this complaint periodically.  But just like above, you never include what question you made that was not answer.  





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What wrongs?


Seek enlightenment on YouTube.


----------



## Hollie

Killing Jews as a religious practice is a basic message of Hamas, which believes that Moslem’s struggle against Jews—not only Israelis—and eventual extermination of Jews at the hands of Moslems is intrinsic to Islam. Hamas includes this statement in its charter:

_Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)._

Later:

_“Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious.”_

Article 13.

_Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement._

later in that article:

_There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors._













						Gaza groups call for stepping up ‘all forms’ of attacks
					

Ismail Radwan, a Hamas spokesperson in the Gaza Strip, called on Palestinians in the West Bank to “step up all forms of confrontation and resistance” against Israel.




					m.jpost.com
				





Gaza groups call for stepping up ‘all forms’ of attacks​By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
Published: DECEMBER 11, 2021 17:48
Updated: DECEMBER 11, 2021 19:49





(photo credit: REUTERS/RANEEN SAWAFTA)
Ismail Radwan, a Hamas spokesperson in the Gaza Strip, called on Palestinians in the West Bank to “step up all forms of confrontation and resistance” against Israel.​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ Where do the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) get the funding to provide rifles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, and components to assemble long-range rockets into Israel?


What is wrong with that? Israel mooches much more than the Palestinians do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You make this complaint periodically. But just like above, you never include what question you made that was not answer.


Like, how did Israel legally acquire the land it sits on?


----------



## P F Tinmore

I worked for months to bring Dr. Angela Davis to my campus to talk about joint struggle and collective liberation. To my shock and dismay, I found out only three days before it was scheduled that Butler University administration decided to cancel the event without my input or knowledge.
Soon after, I learned that Butler’s decision to cancel Dr. Davis’ event was due to complaints by pro-Israel students about Dr. Davis’ outspoken and unapologetic support for Palestinian freedom. In the face of such blatant censorship, I knew who to call: Palestine Legal.
As a Palestinian student organizer, the support, guidance, and advice that Palestine Legal gave me was crucial to my ability to organize for Palestine liberation on my campus.
With their support, we organized to reinstate the event three weeks later. Dr. Davis spoke to over 800 students about antiracism, policing and abolition, U.S. and international solidarity movements, and collective liberation.
Now more than ever, we must stand tall in the face of censorship. As I learned from Dr. Davis and from my experiences as a student organizer, joint struggle is the only path towards freedom, justice, and equality. Black-Palestinian solidarity creates the conditions for change that generations of freedom warriors, from the US to Palestine, will build upon.
Palestinians and allies of Palestinians are censored because our voices are powerful. Israel and its supporters may try, but they cannot cancel a civil rights icon like Dr. Davis.  And with your support for Palestine Legal, they can’t cancel me either.
Can you give to Palestine Legal today, so that activists like me have the legal support we need to stand undeterred?
In solidarity,
Roua
palestinelegal.org/donate


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You are talking to someone who never gets his questions answered.



Really delusional.


----------



## Hollie

PMW in JPost: Just imagine if the PA would stop paying salaries to terrorists​








						PMW in JPost: Just imagine if the PA would stop paying salaries to terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

By exposing that the PA pays salaries to terrorists and other truths about the PA, and then bringing this info to governments around the world, PMW has cost the PA over a billion dollars a year in foreign funding.




					www.palwatch.org
				




Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus | Dec 12, 2021

_ By exposing that the PA pays salaries to terrorists and other truths about the PA, and then bringing this info to governments around the world, PMW has cost the PA over a billion dollars a year in foreign funding._





*Just imagine if the PA would stop paying salaries to terrorists*​Sadly, the PA and Abbas have repeatedly shown that they are not interested in peace or prosperity for the Palestinians, but prefer to stick to the path of aspiring to destroy Israel and reward terror.​





I can’t imagine any circumstance where the Islamic terrorists would stop funding the gee-had attacks aimed at Israel short of the PA and Hamas being met with uncompromising retaliation for those gee-had attacks.

Revulsion of Jews (and Christians), has a 1,400 year long history as a part of Islamic ideology which the Pallys reiterate in their Charter, words and actions.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What is wrong with that? Israel mooches much more than the Palestinians do.


Another of your usual, silly tirades.


----------



## Hollie

In an Al-Aqsa Mosque Address, Palestinian Islamic Scholar Incites for Overthrow of Jordanian Regime​



I’m never surprised when Pally Islamic “scholars” are vocal about overthrowing Arab nations. 

I’m afraid that the Pally “scholar” hasn’t any idea what the Pallys would actually accomplish with their “Final Solution to the Jordanian Problem” What would the Pallys actually accomplish with their overthrow? They can’t govern themselves so how would they hope to govern the country they hope to overthrow? Would they establish just another welfare dependent mini-caliphate? Not a well thought out plan. An overthrow of Jordan by unskilled, gee-had screeching, welfare dependent Arabs-Moslems would put an enormous burden on UNRWA which realistically cannot currently meet the needs of the existing arab-Moslem welfare cheats.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist breeding program. Procreation for the purpose of breeding the next generation of sociopaths who the Pallys don’t want to live past their teen years.


----------



## Hollie

Go figure. 

Antics like these in the United Nations, long ago losing any objectivity as it became a playground for leftists and their favored tyrants, has again made their biases plain with the GA set to offer more opinions. The animus against Israel has long ago been obvious and not concealed in any way.










						UN Condemns Israel 6 Times, Rest of World 0 - UN Watch
					

NEW YORK, Dec. 9, 2021 — The United Nations General Assembly today is slated to adopt six resolutions (see details below) that single out or condemn Israel, and zero on the entire rest of the world. The texts condemn Israel for “repressive measures” against Syrian citizens in the Golan Heights...



					unwatch.org
				




NEW YORK, Dec. 9, 2021 — The United Nations General Assembly today is slated to adopt six resolutions (see details below) that single out or condemn Israel, and zero on the entire rest of the world.


----------



## Hollie

Senior Hamas Official Ismail Radwan Calls For Boycott Of British Goods, Says Jerusalem Terror Attack Was Appropriate Response To UK Ban Of Hamas​


Another boycott. How nice.

Radwan may want to announce the Hamas plan to boycott the Brit welfare money…. or maybe not. 









						UK aid package to help provide emergency relief for civilians in Gaza
					

New UK funding is announced for UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) following a recent escalation in violence.




					www.gov.uk
				



The UK is providing an initial £3.2 million of UK aid to UNRWA’s emergency flash appeal, which launched yesterday (19 May 2021). The appeal focuses on meeting the immediate humanitarian needs of vulnerable Palestinians living in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

It’s all fun and games for Pallys until Israel is forced to re-landscape the terrorist enclaves with JDAM’s.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It’s all fun and games for Pallys until Israel is forced to re-landscape the terrorist enclaves with JDAM’s.


Oooo, terrorist.    More juvenile name calling by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

In today’s installment of _Mr_. _Mufti says, _we have Mr. Mufti reiterating the the ideology of Islam’s inventor a relative to Jew hating. Mr. Mufti also reiterates the slogans about the end of Israel.

They’re so cute when rattling on with their Cult fantasies while standing in line for welfare checks.










						Israel’s destruction is inevitable - a repeating PA promise | PMW Analysis
					

Israel “will pass… Jerusalem will be liberated, return to Islam… The evil will pass,” says PA Mufti




					www.palwatch.org
				





Israel’s destruction is inevitable - a repeating PA promise​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Oct 22, 2021


​
*Israel “will pass… Jerusalem will be liberated, return to Islam… The evil will pass,” says PA Mufti*​
*Jewish immigration to “Palestine” was “a colonialist Zionist plan” but “occupiers always leave in the end… [the Jews] too will return to where they came from,” says official PA TV:*​
*After the “present invaders” leave, Israel’s history in the land will be “one line written in blood,” writes official PA daily*​
*"History is a mirror in which the Israelis see themselves as thieves. They will surely leave defeated,” op-ed official PA daily*​


----------



## Sixties Fan

But then one of the people injured in the explosion, Hamza Ibrahim Shaheen, died of his injuries.


He was a member of the Al Qassam Brigades of Hamas. Their description of his heroic death contradicts the story about the short circuit, as they said that he was "martyred while on a jihad mission."

Hamas called for a major funeral in Lebanon today for this "mujahid."

A Lebanese official investigating the blast said that it was definitely ammunition that exploded, not oxygen tanks. 

Lebanese are making fun of Hamas' explanation for the explosion, especially now that it was forced to contradict itself as to the heroic nature of the "martyr."

(full article online)









						Hamas claims Lebanon weapons depot explosion was only "oxygen and disinfectants for COVID patients"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Mindful

"Not all of the professions will be opened to Palestinians under the new decree...." — _L'Orient Today_, December 8, 2021.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon "are socially marginalized, have very limited civil, social, political and economic rights, including restricted access to the Government of Lebanon's public health, educational and social services and face significant restrictions on their right to work and right to own property." — UNRWA, September 2020.
There are several reasons why the Lebanese do not want the Palestinians. One reason is that since the 1970s, the Palestinians have brought war and destruction to Lebanon and turned refugee camps into bases for terror groups.
"It is time to end this history of discrimination and systematic segregation... Qualified Palestinians should be allowed to practice their professions, especially in fields where they are most needed.... Very few Lebanese would share my view." — Sawssan Abou-Zahr, senior Lebanese journalist, Reliefweb, August 1, 2021.
What is clear...is that the international community has long been ignoring the abuses and human rights violations by an Arab country against the Palestinians.
The demonization of Israel by so many journalists, officials and so-called human-rights groups leaves little time to ask why a Palestinian in Lebanon is not permitted to practice medicine while a significant portion of the medical staff at Israeli hospitals consists of Arab doctors and nurses.









						The Arab Apartheid No One Talks About
					

"Not all of the professions will be opened to Palestinians under the new decree...." — L'Orient Today, December 8, 2021. Palestinian refugees in Lebanon "are socially marginalized, have very limited civil, social, political and economic rights, including




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

A 14-year-old Palestinian girl suspected of stabbing a woman in Jerusalem on Wednesday was carrying a number of Palestinian Authority textbooks with messages of violent incitement when she was caught, an Israeli watchdog revealed Thursday.

Police said they arrested the teenager at her school shortly after she stabbed 26-year-old Moriah Cohen — her family’s neighbor in the flashpoint neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah — while the victim was walking with her five children.

IMPACT-se, an Israeli nonprofit that reviews educational materials used by the PA, said that the girl carried books containing a number of “violent” materials in a school bag when arrested. These included a lesson on reading comprehension describing a terror attack on Israeli civilians as a “barbecue party,” a statistics lesson using a frequency table that featured the numbers of “martyrs” killed by Israel, and a social studies text portraying armed resistance as “natural” and “legitimate.”

(full article online)










						PA Textbooks ‘Encouraging Violence’ Found on Teenage Terrorist | United with Israel
					

Material included a statistics lesson with a frequency table featuring the numbers of 'martyrs' killed by Israel.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Oct. 9, 1982 Palestinian terrorist attack on the Great Synagogue of Rome, in which killed two-year-old Stefano Gaj Tachè was killed, and the blood of 37 others who were wounded flowed on the stones of the building that should have been the safest refuge for Jews in the Italian capital, was a double slap in the face — not only by the murderers, but by those who didn’t lift a finger to defend their victims.

According to a front-page story last week in the left-leaning Italian daily, Il Riformista, Italian authorities had been warned that an attack against Jews or Israelis was being planned. Though documents cited in the story show that Francesco Cossiga — prime minister of the Italian Republic from 1979-1980, and president from 1985-1992 — had decried it at the time, numerous documents from more than fifteen years ago show that no one ever bothered to investigate the matter further. The implication is that there had been a political agreement between former Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti and Palestinian organizations, which had requested that they be given a free hand against Jews and Israelis on Italian soil in exchange for a vow not to assault “innocent” Italians (i.e. non-Jews).

Though such a promise meant nothing, as Palestinian terrorists hadn’t taken into account the identity of “innocent” Italians when they attacked Rome’s Fiumicino airport in 1973 (killing 34); the 1985 highjacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro; or the 1985 twin attacks on the Rome and Vienna airports (killing 19).

Nevertheless, it was clear that Jewish blood was still a bargaining chip, even after the not-so-distant Holocaust, and after the Ghetto of Rome had been marked forever by the deportations of 1943. Indeed, the above terrorist attacks were simply part and parcel of the “next round.” And the same were once again stained with Jewish blood.

During the year of the attack on the Great Synagogue, PLO chief Yasser Arafat addressed the Italian Chamber of Deputies armed with a pistol. Andreotti, the godfather of the parliament’s pro-Arab policy, had allowed him to do so; and only Giovanni Spadolini of Italy’s Republican Party opposed the event.

And well he should have, since the terrorist fury of the Palestinians was already an established fact, highlighted by the slaughter of athletes (the massacre at the Munich Olympics in 1972, in which 11 were killed), children (the 1974 mass murder at the Ma’alot in Israel, which left 31 dead) and innumerable other episodes of plane hijackings, bus bombings, random explosions and shootings.

In those years, however, an absolutist and unctuous policy made the Palestinian world — with all its antisemitic ferocity, dishonesty and human-rights violations — an untouchable sacred cow in the eyes not only of Italy, but throughout Western Europe. Fear, along with the need for Arab oil, were the basic reasons for this “dhimmitude” that Egyptian-born British scholar Bat Ye’or has denounced in so many of her works, and that today, thanks to the signing of the historic Abraham Accords, seems to have ceased.

(full article online)









						Double-Edged Antisemitism
					

PLO leader leader Yasser Arafat. Photo: World Economic Forum. JNS.org – The Oct. 9, 1982 Palestinian terrorist attack on the …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The problem is not just the terrorists, but members of society who turn these scums into Palestinian heroes and educate the next generation to emulate their inhuman behavior.
The Palestinian struggle presents Israel with a cruel choice: to allow the murder of Jewish children and civilians to avoid targeting a mosque or a Palestinian school where missiles are stored, or to kill Arab children and worshippers in an attempt to prevent such murder.


Like the barbaric regime in Tehran, which sent its children to explode in minefields to clear the day for its military, so too the Palestinians use their children as weapons. This is how a 14-year-old resident of Sheikh Jarrah was brainwashed into attempting to murder a Jewish mother in her neighborhood, who was taking her children to school. The teenager hoped the murder would turn her into a Palestinian heroine and entitle her family to a regular stipend from the Palestinian Authority, courtesy of Europe.

In her bag, she carried textbooks that incite violence against Israelis, used for the same brainwashing in the Palestinian education system and the public discourse in her society. This, too, is sponsored by Europe.

The terrorist activity in Lebanon is led by Hamas leaders who currently reside in Turkey under the auspices of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has recently begun to pretend he wants to improve ties with the Jewish state.

In Israel, Arab lawmakers embrace freed terrorists. Last week, their hypocritical concern for human rights focused on the well-being of a Palestinian terrorist who attempted to murder an innocent Jewish citizen, while ignoring the victim himself.

The distortion of the Palestinian national struggle is not only reflected in its methods but also in its goals. They proclaim to the West that their goal is to establish a state alongside Israel while teaching Arab Israelis to deny the legitimacy of the Jewish state.

Palestinian society and its barbaric terrorism – in Lebanon, the Gaza Strip, Jerusalem, and Israel as a whole – causes more disdain than outrage. Enemies can also be respected, even in times of war.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/palestinian-struggle-has-no-leg-to-stand-on/


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Oooo, terrorist.    More juvenile name calling by Israel.




'Terrorist' - is a title too noble,
for the Jihadi filth seeking sexual pleasure
as their highest moral ideal and ultimate goal.









						‘72 virgins reward’ a way terrorists attract ignorant Muslims
					

SPECIAL REPORT | Ex-army veteran Abdul Manaf believes M'sia can tackle growing threat of IS attacks.




					www.malaysiakini.com


----------



## Hollie

The Fem gee-had.​​​​PA school honors 17-year-old suicide bomber on plaque at entrance​Bethlehem High School for Girls, Facebook  | Nov 19, 2019
_






Image posted on the Facebook page of the Bethlehem High School for Girls
The image shows girls posing in front of the Bethlehem High School for Girls._
*Next to the school entrance, is a sign in memory of the “Martyrs” of the PA terror campaign (the second Intifada, 2000-2005).

Text on sign: “This memorial was established in cooperation between the Education Directorate (i.e., branch of the PA Ministry of Education) and the Fatah Shabiba [Youth Movement] organization, in order to commemorate the Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered) at the Bethlehem High School for Girls for the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution*


----------



## Hollie

Because it's what they do. They are consumed by hate / self hate, have little interest in improving their lives and have been raised from birth to believe their singular goal in life is to die in horrible ways in the pursuit of Jew killing.










						Terrorist murderer of 5 will keep killing if he is released again, says his brother | PMW Analysis
					

“If [my brother] is released he will [attack] a second time, a third time, and a fourth time.”




					palwatch.org
				




Terrorist murderer of 5 will keep killing if he is released again, says his brother

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 15, 2021

“If [my brother] is released he will [attack] a second time, a third time, and a fourth time.”

Speaking on official PA TV, the brother of a terrorist responsible for the murder of 5, expressed his conviction that his brother will kill again if released. He explained that his brother Khalil Abu Arram already once was given “a long sentence” but “came out in the previous prisoner exchange.” After his release he carried out more terror – “attacked again” out of “national duty” - his brother stated, and continued that nothing is going stop the currently imprisoned murderer from killing “a second time, a third time, and a fourth time” if released:


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

( A people who was denied 6 Million lives in 5 years, vs a people who have grown by about 6 Million in the past 70 years.  Truly comparable)


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Why would they do that? )


----------



## Hollie

Israel is reportedly concerned about Pally ''copycat'' sociopaths who see their brethren commit gee-had attacks on Israeli's and then decide they need to show their devout beliefs by mimicking those attacks. 

More of the illnesses that affect Pally'dom. 












						The Phenomenon of Lone Palestinian Terrorists
					

Hamas may be trying to ride the latest wave of attacks to expand it into a new “knife intifada” like the one perpetrated in 2015.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The IDF is alarmed by the imitation phenomenon of lone terrorists, mainly the mimicking of knife and vehicular attacks. Moreover, in recent weeks, the incitement on social media has increased, which has the most significant impact on the younger Palestinian generation, especially when they view the live action in east Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.


----------



## Hollie

Apparently, Allah is angry. The Wuhan virus is about the ''poor, oppressed Pal'istanians''. 

Yeah, that must be it.














						Abbas’ Advisor: Allah is punishing world with COVID for ignoring Palestinian plight | PMW Analysis
					

Israel “used the virus as a new weapon” to destroy the PA




					palwatch.org
				




Abbas’ Advisor: Allah is punishing world with COVID for ignoring Palestinian plight​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 17, 2021

*PA libel: Israel “exported” Coronavirus to the PA*​
*Israel “used the virus as a new weapon” to destroy the PA*​
*Abbas’ advisor: “Allah is liable to bring down punishment on everyone, on all the people who are silent facing injustice, agree with injustice, and defend the oppressors… I think that today we are seeing the realization of this… All of humanity… is being included in one punishment, in this disaster [of the Coronavirus]… Is there a greater injustice than the injustice directed against us?”*​
The PA is a master of evading responsibility because it is so easy to blame Israel for everything that goes wrong, including the spread of the Coronavirus. In a column in the official PA daily, Muwaffaq Matar, Fatah Revolutionary Council member and regular columnist for the paper accused Israel of deliberately bringing COVID-19 into the PA:


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two men were arrested on November 29 after being exposed as spies for the Hamas terrorist organization, Israel’s Security Agency (Shin Bet) revealed on Thursday.

The spies were identified as Hassin Biari, 30, an Arab Israeli resident of Jaffa, and Mahmoud Ahmad, 33, from the Gaza Strip. Investigations by the Shin Bet, together with the Israel Police, led to their arrest. Mahmad Halawa, a known Hamas operative based in Gaza, was named as their handler..

The men were recruited by Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip, because of their ability to move freely within Israel. Biari, an Arab citizen of Israel, is a resident of Jaffa, and Ahmad had a valid work permit in the country.

(full article online)









						Arab Israeli, Worker from Gaza Arrested for Spying on Israel for Hamas | United with Israel
					

Two men were arrested after Israeli security discovered they had been spying for Hamas.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

( More child abuse )

To “establish love of the homeland” and “emphasize the firm truth that is not negotiable” that all of Israel is “Palestine,” Fatah held a “national educational activity” for fourth grade girls. The girls made “dummy Palestinian identity cards” with Palestinian flags on them and posed with them on the background of drawings and signs featuring keys symbolizing the Palestinian refugees’ “right of return.”







PA Chairman Abbas’ Fatah explained the goal of the activity as follows, stressing the denial of Israel's right to exist and that its destruction is inevitable:



> “The goal of this idea is to establish love of the homeland among the female students, to strengthen their affiliation with all accessible means, and *to emphasize the firm truth that is not negotiable, and it is that Palestine is Arab from its [Jordan] River to its [Mediterranean] Sea*, its capital is Jerusalem, *and that it will be liberated sooner or later*.”
> [Facebook, Fatah's Lion Cubs and Flowers children's movement, Nov. 28, 2021



(full article online)









						Fatah brainwashes 4th grade girls that Israel's destruction is inevitable | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: A “firm truth that is not negotiable” is “that Palestine is Arab from its [Jordan] River to its [Mediterranean] Sea, its capital is Jerusalem, and that it will be liberated sooner or later”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Israel's partners for Peace )


----------



## Sixties Fan

( When did they ever behave this way towards the Crusaders, the Ottomans, or the Hashemite who took 78% of the Mandate, or Egypt which took Gaza?  Never )


----------



## Hollie

One of the reasons for not appeasing Islamic terrorists is because appeasement won’t stop future Islamic terrorist attacks. Generation after generation of Pally sociopaths raised to die at the altar of Islamic gee-had is not going to end. Let the security walls and immediate, devastating response to Pally attacks serve as the pattern for future dealings with them. Either they will “get the lesson” or they will die failing to learn – and in either case, western interests will be properly served.












						The consequences of ‘deals’ with antisemitic terror
					

European governments struck 'deals' with Palestinian terrorists, in exchange for what was deemed 'limited' concessions and collateral damage, but In too many cases that meant expendable Jewish lives.




					m.jpost.com
				




On October 9, 1982 – the end of Sukkot – a group of five Palestinian operatives attacked the Great Synagogue in central Rome with hand grenades and submachine guns, killing a two-year-old – Stefano Gaj Taché – and wounding 37 worshipers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib's Staffer Retweets Hamas | Frontpage Mag
					

Joe Kaufman is a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and the Chairman of the Joe Kaufman Security Initiative. He was the 2014




					www.frontpagemag.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Four mosques in Hebron have been closed by the government for Friday prayers today.

Not the Israeli government, though. That would be Islamophobic!

No, the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Endowments in Hebron announced that the four mosques would be closed to encourage Muslims to all pray at the "Ibrahimi Mosque," the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron.

It announced the closure "in support of and strengthening the presence and endurance in the Holy Ibrahimi shrine and to counter repeated attacks."

When they say "attacks," they mean "Jews praying." Which means the official reason of closing these mosques is to promote antisemitism. 

However, commenters on Facebook understood that the official reason was not the real reason. If it was, the PA would have made this announcement when Israel's President Herzog lit the first Chanukah candle there. Or for any of a dozen other reasons before now. Why this week?

The real reason is because those mosques are Hamas strongholds! Hamas planned a demonstration today after prayers at one of those mosques to celebrate the 34th anniversary of its launch.







The PA wanted to stop the Hamas rally, but admitting that is the goal would be divisive and look bad. So instead the PA chose to use as an excuse the only point of unity between virtually all Palestinians: hating Jews.

This one incident - the PA arbitrarily closing mosques, the official reason being antisemitism, and the real reason being a passive aggressive attack on its political rival - is a microcosm of the reality of Palestinian politics. It isn't an anomaly; this sort of stuff happens every day. But Western journalists don't bother telling their audiences how dysfunctional, broken and hateful the PA is. 

Because the incompetent, petty and Jew-hating PLO represents the "best chance of peace."









						You won't believe why the Palestinian Authority shut down four mosques in Hebron
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

( It is MUSLIM land )









						Defying Ban On Military Activity On Campus, Students At Palestinian Authority Birzeit University Hold Military Parades With Mock Rockets, Explosive Belts
					

In the past few days two military parades were held on the campus of Birzeit University in the West Bank, at which participants, wearing mock explosive belts and carrying mock rockets, called to continue the struggle against Israel.




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

I've always found it creepy that the Pallys continue the religious tradition established by inventor of their religion that involves the abuse of young females. 













						Fatah brainwashes 4th grade girls that Israel's destruction is inevitable | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: A “firm truth that is not negotiable” is “that Palestine is Arab from its [Jordan] River to its [Mediterranean] Sea, its capital is Jerusalem, and that it will be liberated sooner or later”




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah brainwashes 4th grade girls that Israel's destruction is inevitable​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 16, 2021

*Fatah: A “firm truth that is not negotiable” is “that Palestine is Arab from its [Jordan] River to its [Mediterranean] Sea, its capital is Jerusalem, and that it will be liberated sooner or later”*​





To “establish love of the homeland” and “emphasize the firm truth that is not negotiable” that all of Israel is “Palestine,” Fatah held a “national educational activity” for fourth grade girls. The girls made “dummy Palestinian identity cards” with Palestinian flags on them and posed with them on the background of drawings and signs featuring keys symbolizing the Palestinian refugees’ “right of return.”






This is more of the nonsense ''right of return'' slogan used by the pallys. The Arabs-Moslems who occupied lands formerly controlled by the Turkish caliphate have no ''right of return'' to lands abandoned by the Turks in favor of the Allied powers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

( All ages.  Sometimes they just want to spend some time in Israeli jail to get away from their family.  Is this another case?










						Israeli man stabbed, lightly hurt by Palestinian woman, 65, in Hebron
					

Suspect attacks settler near checkpoint close to Tomb of the Patriarchs; troops subdue and detain her, police say




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Law Professor And Fatah Official Jihad Al-Harazin: Why Does The World Cry For The 'So-Called' Holocaust And Not For The Real Holocaust Of Palestinians?
					

Dr. Jihad Al-Harazin, a Fatah official who is also a professor of law and political science at Al-Quds University, was i...




					www.memri.org
				



Palestinian Law Professor And Fatah Official Jihad Al-Harazin: Why Does The World Cry For The 'So-Called' Holocaust And Not For The Real Holocaust Of Palestinians?​




It's impossible to give credibility to Pally whining about their lot in life when their failures, ineptitudes and inadequacies are largely self created.


----------



## Hollie

This is the Islamic terrorist / criminal enterprise that parades around begging for welfare money.

They pay the Islamic terrorists they breed on a graduated scale. The greater the scale of destruction and killing, they're paid.











						The PA’s ‘Equal Opportunities for Terrorist Murderers’ policy | PMW Analysis
					

The arrest of the terrorist murderers automatically invokes the full weight of the Palestinian Authority’s 2004 Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners and implementing regulations.




					palwatch.org
				




According to the law (sec. 2), all terrorists “*are a fighting sector, and an inseparable part of the Palestinian society*.”

Section 7 of the law, together with sections 7 and 12 of PA Government Decision Number 23 of 2010 Regarding the Regulation of Payment of the Monthly Salary to the Prisoner, guarantees the terrorists a monthly salary from the PA, that begins on the day of their arrest and increases with time spent in prison (see chart below). Section 6 of the law adds that the PA will also provide the terrorists with monthly spending money and a clothing allowance, twice a year.


----------



## Hollie

The enterprise of Islamic terrorists sometimes called ''Pallys'' will need to ramp up their international campaign of ''_Begging for Welfare Dollars_. Their payments to Islamic terrorist killers likely just got more expensive. 







			https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/got-em-israeli-forces-nab-terror-murder-suspects/
		


Israeli security forces early Sunday arrested the Palestinian Arabs suspected of killing Yehuda Dimentman and wounding two other Jews in a shooting attack last Thursday.

Six men – two of them the suspected killers and four accomplices – were tracked down in a sweeping manhunt guided by an intensified intelligence gathering operation that homed in on a town in northern Samaria, just 20 minutes south of Megiddo.

The suspected shooters were identified by Israel as members of the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ). They ambushed and fired upon the three Jews as they left a yeshiva constructed amidst the ruins of Homesh, a Jewish village demolished by the Israeli government in 2005.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Pally sociopaths have been ramping up the use their female children lately to promote their hoped-for Jew killing. Abuse of female children has a history dating back to the inventor of their ''religion'' and the Pallys carry on that tradition today. 













						Girl on PA TV: “We’ll trample the necks of the Zionists” | PMW Analysis
					

Girl: “Our rifles are on our shoulders… I swear by the Jihad fighters… We’ll trample the necks of the Zionists and make a path out of them”




					palwatch.org
				




Girl on PA TV: “We’ll trample the necks of the Zionists”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 20, 2021

*Girl: “Our rifles are on our shoulders… I swear by the Jihad fighters… We’ll trample the necks of the Zionists and make a path out of them”*​



As Palestinian Media Watch has exposed and is clear by the way Palestinian children speak on PA TV, the PA educates its youth to admire terrorist murderers. In addition, they see violence and terror as valid and see the murder of Israelis/Jews as a right because Jews, they claim, don't have any history in the land and their presence “defiles” it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians are still seething over the photo of the Philippines' contestant for Miss Universe making stuffed grape leaves dish in Israel and captioning it "Day in the life of a Bedouin."

A very angry article in Arab America said that Israelis were taking credit for Palestinian culture.

Imagine what their headline would be if the Miss Universe contestants were only exposed to Jewish culture. They would be talking about Israel erasing Arab culture!

The fact is that some 20% of Israelis are Arab and their culture is part of Israeli culture no less than that of Mizrahi, Russian or Ethiopian Jews.

Now the official Palestinian news agency Wafa is quoting an Arab Israeli restaurant manager as saying that stuffed grape leaves made by the pageant contestants was Palestinian (and that there is no such thing as Israeli cuisine.)

No, stuffed grape leaves is not Palestinian.

There is disagreement over where it originated, but the best guesses are Greece, Persia or Egypt. I don't see any source that claims this is a Palestinian food.

Who practices cultural appropriation again?









						Palestinians now claim to have invented stuffed grape leaves
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

A 38-year-old Israeli was lightly injured in a stabbing attack in the West Bank city of Hebron on Saturday morning.

The terrorist, a 65-year-old Palestinian woman, was neutralized by Border Police officers at the scene of the attack at Ruth checkpoint, near the Cave of the Patriarchs.

(full article online)









						Israeli injured in terror stabbing attack near Cave of Patriarchs
					

The terrorist, a 65-year-old Palestinian woman, was neutralized at the scene of the attack near Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron.




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Today, Israeli security forces arrested six suspected members of Islamic Jihad for the murder of Yehuda Dimentman last week. 

The mother of two of those arrested spoke to Palestine Today.

You get the feeling that every Palestinian is reading from a script when they get interviewed.

First she talks about her outrage at Israeli police searching her house for the gun and arresting her sons:




> Ataf Bosef Jaradat stated that the soldiers turned the house upside down, isolated the family and subjected her son Ghaith (17) to a field investigation inside the house for an hour, adding, “We were surprised by more soldiers and intelligence storming our house, which they destroyed and searched until they found weapons.”
> 
> Jaradat explained that the intelligence officer told us, "Your son, Ghaith, is the killer who carried out the Homesh operation" and they found the weapon that was used in her house and the vehicle in the Al-Silah Al-Harith Mountains.



Then she switches roles from the person upset at being senselessly searched by the evil Israelis to the proud mother of a terrorist:


> She said, "If Omar (20) and Ghaith were the ones who carried out the operation, then my message to our people is that their direction and their way of jihad should be for the sake of Allah, not internal disagreement.. Our direction is to God and jihad, and we will not regret whatever happens because our direction is to God, and all of my children are sacrifices to God, Al-Aqsa and Palestine, and we ask God to make it easy and relieve them.”
> 
> She added, "If my son executed the attack I am proud of it with my head held high."



It is a sick society where mothers are proud that their sons become murderers.






						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

It seems the Pally sociopaths have been ramping up the use their female children lately to promote their hoped-for Jew killing. Abuse of female children has a history dating back to the inventor of their ''religion'' and the Pallys carry on that tradition today...



					www.usmessageboard.com


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## Sixties Fan

(full article online)









						The PA’s ‘Equal Opportunities for Terrorist Murderers’ policy | PMW Analysis
					

The arrest of the terrorist murderers automatically invokes the full weight of the Palestinian Authority’s 2004 Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners and implementing regulations.




					www.palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Today, Israeli security forces arrested six suspected members of Islamic Jihad for the murder of Yehuda Dimentman last week.
> 
> The mother of two of those arrested spoke to Palestine Today.
> 
> You get the feeling that every Palestinian is reading from a script when they get interviewed.
> 
> First she talks about her outrage at Israeli police searching her house for the gun and arresting her sons:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then she switches roles from the person upset at being senselessly searched by the evil Israelis to the proud mother of a terrorist:
> 
> 
> It is a sick society where mothers are proud that their sons become murderers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> 
> 
> It seems the Pally sociopaths have been ramping up the use their female children lately to promote their hoped-for Jew killing. Abuse of female children has a history dating back to the inventor of their ''religion'' and the Pallys carry on that tradition today...
> 
> 
> 
> www.usmessageboard.com



Islam....incompatible with civilization.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(If at first you fail, than fail, and fail, and fail until the is nothing left to fail about.  Land....always more important than a human's life )

Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) have reached an agreement to step up terror attacks against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank.

The Iranian-backed groups also agreed to increase coordination between their military wings, Izaddin al-Qassam Brigades, and al-Quds Brigades. The agreement was reached during meetings of leaders of Hamas and PIJ in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip.

The agreement is seen by Palestinian political analysts as yet another challenge to the Palestinian Authority, whose security forces are continuing to wage a massive crackdown on Hamas and PIJ members in the West Bank.

(full article online)









						Hamas, Islamic Jihad say will increase terror attacks against Israel
					

Parents of Jenin terrorists suspected of killing Yehuda Dimentman: ‘We are proud of our sons.’




					www.jpost.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations issued a report on meat consumption in the Arab world - and Palestinians eat more red meat per capita than any Arab nation, with 97 kilograms per person per year consumed.

This was way ahead of the rich Gulf countries. Kuwait's rate was 67 kg per capita, the UAE was at 60 kg, Saudi Arabia had 54 kg.

That would put Palestinians in the top ten worldwide in meat consumption per capita.

What about other food metrics compared to the Arab world? The Lancet and NGOs constantly come out with statistics to make it sound like Palestinian children have high amounts of food insecurity, stunted growth or wasting. How do they compare with Arab states?

Pretty well. Not the best and far from the worst.

For stunting in children, the Palestinian rate is lower than nearly all Arab countries outside of wealthy Gulf states.

This points to one of the little discussed problems of the world's obsession with Palestinians: more aid is sent to them per capita that anyone else, and they need this help less than many or most other groups. Which means that the overrepresentation of various aid groups falling over themselves to give more and more to Palestinians takes away more and more from other countries that need it more. 

One would think that socialists would be sensitive to that inequality. 

Put it this way: the antisemitism that underlies making the Palestinian cause appear to be the most critical issue on the planet ends up hurting millions of people worldwide.

(full article online)









						Palestinians eat more meat per capita than any Arab nation. While they get more aid per capita.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

(Nothing to see here )









						Palestinian police have been arresting hundreds of political opponents in recent months
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


>



AT what point in that video do they get their asses kicked and start whining for a do-over?


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## Sixties Fan

(Education does nothing to really educate some people. Leaving Gaza not to lead a better life, but to spread lies about Israel and Jews. The Arab culture of Shame.  Shame for having lost wars to the Jews. Their despised Jews )

Refaat Alareer is the *co-editor of Gaza Unsilenced*(2015) and was the editor of (and a contributor to) Gaza Writes Back (2014). A native of Gaza City's Shijaieh neighborhood, he received his M.A. in Comparative Literature from the University College of London (U.K.)


----------



## Hollie

It looks the Pallys found themselves a breeder. 











						Get your friends to envy you - have a murderer of Israelis in the family | PMW Analysis
					

“I always brag about you to my friends,” niece tells terrorist uncle involved in murder of 7




					palwatch.org
				




Get your friends to envy you - have a murderer of Israelis in the family​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 21, 2021

*“I always brag about you to my friends,” niece tells terrorist uncle involved in murder of 7*​
*“I’m proud of you,” nephew tells terrorist uncle involved in murder of 4*​



Family pride is usually felt when a relative has done something good, made an accomplishment, or had a positive impact – whether by talent, hard work, or both.
In the PA, family pride is when a relative has murdered one or several Israelis!
On PA TV, a woman told how she brags to her friends about her uncle who is in prison for the murder of 7 and a boy expressed his pride in his uncle who was involved in the murder of 4.


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## Sixties Fan

Last week, a video was released showing Arabs angrily pulling up young olive trees next to the Jewish community of Avigayil in Judea.

It was unique as it was one of the few instances of Palestinian Arab harassment against Jews that was caught on film.

-----
It is only recently that an increasing number of articles have been published pointing out that a double standard exists whereby “’routine’ terror attacks, including murder by Palestinian Arabs against Jews, are downplayed or treated as justified.

This is, perhaps, because little documentation has reached the public regarding the daily harassment of settlers by Arabs.

A common trick played by the Arabs is to attack or relentlessly badger Jews and then film them in the instances when they fight back, ignoring the times they do not.

Tuesday was not an instance when Jews provided photogenic propaganda for the Arabs. Quite the contrary, in fact. Three Arabs were caught on film pulling up olive tree saplings that had been planted by the community of Avigayil. But this short film clip does not tell the whole story.

Just as media consumers should insist that articles documenting Jewish attacks on Arabs put the entire incident in context, telling the story from beginning to end, we should expect no less when it is an Arab attack on Jews.
-----------
UWI: What can you tell us about Mohammad Hamamdi?

Bazak: I talk with Hamamdi a lot. He likes to talk. I can talk with him for hours.



He told me that he is a politician. He leads the incitement. I don’t know if it started with him or if they found him. An Arab laborer who was working in Avigayil told me that most of the Arabs living in the Avigayil region also have homes in the town of Yatta and they get money for living here. In fact, I have a tape of Hamamdi saying that he is there because he gets money for being there.

(full article online)









						EVIDENCE: Radical Leftists Pay Palestinians to Destroy Jewish Property in Judea | United with Israel
					

A Palestinianwho was vandalizing state land in Judea admitted that he was being paid for harassing Jewish communities.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch translated a column in the official PA newspaper Al Hayat al-Jadida, by Muwaffaq Matar.

Matar is a member of Fatah's Revolutionary Council and a regular columnist for the official newspaper.

On November 21, he wrote:



> It would not be an exaggeration if we say that the racist occupation government has worked to export the ‘COVID-19’ (Coronavirus) epidemic to us, after our institutions succeeded in limiting and reducing the scope of its spread, as [Israel] used the virus as a new weapon to weaken the scope of economic life to the lowest point, and to leave it in an almost fateful dependency on its economy!


Jews purposefully infecting non-Jews just so they become richer? 

Nah, nothing antisemitic about that.

It is worth repeating that the outrageous part isn't that some idiot writes something racist. It isn't even outrageous that the editors of the newspaper have no problem publishing bigotry. 

The outrageous part is that this pure Jew-hatred is published every day, and there is no Palestinian media that disagrees. There is no debate in Palestinian media about this - Jews are evil, and that is accepted as fact. 

People who claim they want peace are curiously unconcerned about this.









						Fatah official: Israel infected Palestinians with Covid-19
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

( Worried about violence between Arabs on campuses, but not worried about violence, BDS against Jews on campuses around the world )

“We can’t allow our academic institutions to turn into battlefields for settling scores between rival factions and gangs,” the academic told _The Jerusalem Post_. “We call on the Palestinian Authority to assume its responsibilities and take tough measures to enforce law and order.”

The latest tensions at Bir Zeit University began earlier this month when a fight erupted between students affiliated with Fatah and others belonging to Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).

(full article online)









						Palestinians concerned about growing violence on campuses
					

There have been recurring violent incident on university campuses between rival Palestinian factions.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ( Worried about violence between Arabs on campuses, but not worried about violence, BDS against Jews on campuses around the world )
> 
> “We can’t allow our academic institutions to turn into battlefields for settling scores between rival factions and gangs,” the academic told _The Jerusalem Post_. “We call on the Palestinian Authority to assume its responsibilities and take tough measures to enforce law and order.”
> 
> The latest tensions at Bir Zeit University began earlier this month when a fight erupted between students affiliated with Fatah and others belonging to Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians concerned about growing violence on campuses
> 
> 
> There have been recurring violent incident on university campuses between rival Palestinian factions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com





> The Fatah supporters on campus were reportedly outraged by a statement, signed by Hamas and PFLP students, condemning security coordination between the PA and Israel.



Indeed. this is the division between Fatah and Hamas. Has been since Oslo.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ( Worried about violence between Arabs on campuses, but not worried about violence, BDS against Jews on campuses around the world )
> 
> “We can’t allow our academic institutions to turn into battlefields for settling scores between rival factions and gangs,” the academic told _The Jerusalem Post_. “We call on the Palestinian Authority to assume its responsibilities and take tough measures to enforce law and order.”
> 
> The latest tensions at Bir Zeit University began earlier this month when a fight erupted between students affiliated with Fatah and others belonging to Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians concerned about growing violence on campuses
> 
> 
> There have been recurring violent incident on university campuses between rival Palestinian factions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com





> The incident came hours after IDF soldiers raided the campus and searched the faculties of Graduate Studies; Science; and Pharmacy, Nursing and Health Professions. The soldiers are also reported to have removed a large Palestinian flag from the center of campus.



What are IDF assholes doing in area A?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed. this is the division between Fatah and Hamas. Has been since Oslo.


Indeed, not. Indeed, the really nasty civil war between the competing Islamic terrorist franchises was on display in the mid / late 2000's when they were killing and torturing each other in really inventive ways.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Indeed, not. Indeed, the really nasty civil war between the competing Islamic terrorist franchises was on display in the mid / late 2000's when they were killing and torturing each other in really inventive ways.


Fatah works for Israel. Hamas works against Israel.

Tough to get together.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Entry into Area "A"
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*(OPPOSING VIEW) *

What I take away from *the article* is this:

◈    This may be a case of a silent alarm, wherein the University Administration wanted to take preemptive action for the prevention of injury, damage, and destruction.  The Israeli Security Force might have actually been solicited by the University Administration in such a manner that they did not want to be identified as the complainant or take the responsibility for fear of repercussions.​


P F Tinmore said:


> What are IDF assholes doing in area A?


*(COMMENT)*

This appears to be the symptoms of a nonfeasance Palestinian Authority Police and Security services 

From a very practical frame of reference, some special circumstances warrant action to enter or take control of the situation when,  without Palestinian Authority permission, people are in imminent danger, there is reasonable evidence that faces imminent destruction or the potential for incitement and escalation by party agitators.  This may also include the "It Was In Plain View" protocol, allowing the seizure of any evidence or contraband that might further the cause of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence → as played out in Articles 19 and 20 of the  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

This is a Catch 22 paradox wherein - if you take action, you are criticized, yet - if you do not take action you are criticized.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Fatah works for Israel. Hamas works against Israel.
> 
> Tough to get together.



Conspiracy theories aren't useful.


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## Hollie

Many may not know this but when Pally Islamic Scholar Sheikh Issam Amira is not sacrificing goats and chickens to ward off evil spirits, he's a frequent contributor to the New Englnd Journal of Mdicine. 



Palestinian Islamic Scholar Sheikh Issam Amira In Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: The Omicron Variant Is Brought Upon Us Because Of Muslim Rulers Who Permit Homosexuality, Follow Feminist Organizations


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday was a bad day for Israel-haters
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

CNN depicts Palestinian Authority President Abbas as having been actively engaged in peace talks with Israel that repeatedly fell apart through no fault of his own. The network, which claims to reach more people in the United States than any other news brand (175 million),  fails to mention the violent rejectionism – typified by incessant incitment against Israel – that has characterized Abbas’ reign.

While the word ‘peace’ appears eight times in _Mahmoud Abbas Fast Facts, _‘incitement,’ ‘violence,’ ‘terror,’ ‘martyr,’ and ‘militant’ don’t appear once.

HonestReporting has repeatedly shown this portrayal of Abbas as a political moderate who actively supports a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be little more than a media creation.

(full article online)









						Mahmoud Abbas: HonestReporting Fast Facts in Response to CNN's Alternate Reality | Honest Reporting
					

On December 19, CNN updated its Mahmoud Abbas Fast Facts piece. Compiled by the network's research department, it contains 13 references to Israel,




					honestreporting.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> CNN depicts Palestinian Authority President Abbas as having been actively engaged in peace talks with Israel that repeatedly fell apart through no fault of his own. The network, which claims to reach more people in the United States than any other news brand (175 million),  fails to mention the violent rejectionism – typified by incessant incitment against Israel – that has characterized Abbas’ reign.
> 
> While the word ‘peace’ appears eight times in _Mahmoud Abbas Fast Facts, _‘incitement,’ ‘violence,’ ‘terror,’ ‘martyr,’ and ‘militant’ don’t appear once.
> 
> HonestReporting has repeatedly shown this portrayal of Abbas as a political moderate who actively supports a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be little more than a media creation.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas: HonestReporting Fast Facts in Response to CNN's Alternate Reality | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> On December 19, CNN updated its Mahmoud Abbas Fast Facts piece. Compiled by the network's research department, it contains 13 references to Israel,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com





Sixties Fan said:


> While the word ‘peace’ appears eight times in _Mahmoud Abbas Fast Facts, _‘incitement,’ ‘violence,’ ‘terror,’ ‘martyr,’ and ‘militant’ don’t appear once.


Of course not. Those are Israeli propaganda terms.


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## Sixties Fan

(Nothing but misery and destruction.  What a horrible life Gaza's have because of Israel )


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## Sixties Fan

( Such misery and depravation in Gaza.  No wonder so many are leaving, even escaping )


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## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist indoctrination program yields another success. 












						Terrorist shoots at IDF troops near Ramallah, is killed by return fire
					

The assailant opened fire on Israeli forces that had entered Al-Bireh to locate suspicious individuals seen approaching nearby Psagot, says the military.The post Terrorist shoots at IDF troops near Ramallah,




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




Palestinian terrorist opened fire on Israeli forces in Al-Bireh on Wednesday night, according to the Israel Defense Forces. The troops returned fire, killing the assailant. No Israeli casualties were reported.

The troops had entered the outskirts of the town, which is located just northeast of Ramallah, after suspicious individuals were identified approaching the adjacent town of Psagot, the military said in a statement.

According to the IDF, a gunman opened fire at the troops from a passing vehicle.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Islamic terrorist indoctrination program yields another success.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorist shoots at IDF troops near Ramallah, is killed by return fire
> 
> 
> The assailant opened fire on Israeli forces that had entered Al-Bireh to locate suspicious individuals seen approaching nearby Psagot, says the military.The post Terrorist shoots at IDF troops near Ramallah,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.clevelandjewishnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terrorist opened fire on Israeli forces in Al-Bireh on Wednesday night, according to the Israel Defense Forces. The troops returned fire, killing the assailant. No Israeli casualties were reported.
> 
> The troops had entered the outskirts of the town, which is located just northeast of Ramallah, after suspicious individuals were identified approaching the adjacent town of Psagot, the military said in a statement.
> 
> According to the IDF, a gunman opened fire at the troops from a passing vehicle.


So, the Palestinians were killed while defending themselves from invading foreign troops.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> So, the Palestinians were killed while defending themselves from invading foreign troops.


 Nothing indicates the islamic terrorist was defending anything. 

You're just re-writing the details to fit a false narrative.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Nothing indicates the islamic terrorist was defending anything.
> 
> You're just re-writing the details to fit a false narrative.


Well the IDF (Israeli Doofus force) did go into a Palestinian village.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Well the IDF (Israeli Doofus force) did go into a Palestinian village



learn to pay attention. From the article:

“The troops had entered the outskirts of the town, which is located just northeast of Ramallah, after suspicious individuals were identified approaching the adjacent town of Psagot”


----------



## Hollie

Those poor Pallys. It’s just one disaster after another.

While they slobber over 3 people carrying homemade “boycott Israel” cardboard signs, the Pallys are ramping up trade with “the Zionist Entity”.

The phony, screeching “boycott” nonsense goes flying out the window when there’s money to be made. 











						PA hypocrisy: PA increases trade with Israel, yet calls on others to boycott | PMW Analysis
					

While the PA and its leadership wholeheartedly support the BDS movement, a recent report published by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) shows that trade between Israel and the Palestinians in constantly increasing.




					palwatch.org
				





PA hypocrisy: PA increases trade with Israel, yet calls on others to boycott​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Dec 23, 2021
The Palestinian Authority is a strong supporter and proponent of the Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS) movement against Israel. As such, when Ben and Jerry’s decided to adopt the BDS platform and halt ice cream sales in Judea and Samaria, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh was quick to praise the “moral values” of the company.

While the PA and its leadership wholeheartedly support the BDS movement, a recent report published by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) shows that trade between Israel and the Palestinians in constantly increasing.

Referring to October 2021, the PCBS reported:


> “Exports to Israel increased in October, 2021 by 10% compared to September, 2021 and it represented 85% of total exports in October, 2021… Imports from Israel increased by 10% in October, 2021 compared to September, 2021 and it represented 54% of total imports in October, 2021.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> learn to pay attention. From the article:
> 
> “The troops had entered the outskirts of the town, which is located just northeast of Ramallah, after suspicious individuals were identified approaching the adjacent town of Psagot”


So?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> So?


So stop whining.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

( Indoctrinated for terror or tired of terror and wanting out of it.  Children, victims of Islamic abuse from birth to achieve the impossible )

An attempted terror attack by a 14-year-old Palestinian teen was thwarted by security guards at the Tel Aviv Central Bus Station on Thursday morning, N12 reported.

A man reported the Palestinian teen to security guards at the station after he acted in a suspicious manner.

Security guards who arrived at the scene detained the boy after detecting a kitchen knife under his jacket.

(full article online)









						Attempted terror attack in Tel Aviv Central Station thwarted
					

A Palestinian teen carrying a kitchen knife was detained by security guards before he could carry out a terror attack in Tel Aviv.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

"Hamas does not just see itself as a guest in Lebanon," said Beeri, who served for 20 years in the IDF Military Intelligence Directorate.

"It is a serious challenge for Hezbollah on Lebanon, because of its independent activities and force build-up, and it is also in a state of significant tension with Fatah, the central Palestinian movement in Lebanon," he stated.

All of this serves Iran well, giving the Islamic republic multiple proxies and allies that it can encourage to act against Israel from Lebanon, and giving it options when Hezbollah wishes to focus on domestic Lebanese crises and to dial down tensions with Israel.

"According to the documents we have, Hamas aspires to create precise rockets, guided by GPS, with a range of 20 kilometers at the first stage," said Beeri. "This is a secret project."

In 2018, Hamas came up with a working plan for Lebanon, sketching out the building of battalions with hundreds of members, and creating an elite attack force that is a mirror image of the elite Nahbe strike force in Gaza, based on 130 terror operatives.

"Their goal is to be able to fire 200 rockets at Israel from Lebanon in two rounds of fighting, or 100 rockets per round," said Beeri. "Until now, only Hezbollah had such capabilities. It is unheard of for another organization in Lebanon to deploy such firepower."

Other plans include setting up 122-millimeter mortar shells that are launched automatically by a timer, meaning that even when Israel locates the source of fire, it won't have a target left to hit after the mortar is launched.

Fatah, which is the dominant movement at the Burj Al-Shimali refugee camp, is certainly unhappy to see Hamas building weapons "under its nose," Beeri assessed. "This is the basis for the funeral gunfight, which was likely the result of an organized decision rather than a local initiative," he added. "Fatah suddenly sees a weapons storehouse explode, causing damage. This could be motivation for it to settle accounts with Hamas."

In Lebanon, Hamas sees a new front that it can activate against Israel in addition to the Gaza Strip, giving it operational flexibility.

(full article online)



			https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/12/23/hamas-does-not-see-itself-as-a-guest-in-lebanon-defense-expert-say/


----------



## Hollie

Hamas Official Ahmad Kulab: It Is Forbidden For Muslims To Congratulate Christians On Christmas; Santa Claus Has Invaded Muslim Countries​




Kuffar Santa is leading the invasion of Moslem’dom.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Pallys. The things you actually hear about.









						Hamas, Claiming Victory Over Israel, Is Stuck in Same Old Cycle
					

Seven months after a war with Israel, hundreds are dead but otherwise little has changed. It’s a familiar pattern.




					www.nytimes.com
				




Israeli strikes in May killed at least 130 civilians and up to 100 militants, and destroyed or damaged more than 1,000 homes, shops and offices in Gaza.




Amid the usual Islamic terrorist bluster about “the end of the Zionist Entity”, the competing Islamic terrorist franchises which occupy Gaza and the West Bank continue on as little more than welfare dependent enclaves.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The other Shia Iranian financed Islamic terrorist franchise in Lebanon wound up in a bit of a kerfuffle with the Sunni Arab financed Islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank. 










						Lebanon blast latest reminder of Hamas’s growing armed presence to Israel’s north
					

“Hamas does not just see itself as a guest in Lebanon,” says the Head of Research at the Alma Center, Maj. (res.) Tal Beeri.




					www.jns.org
				





(December 22, 2021 / JNS) The deadly explosion that tore through a Hamas arms depot on December 10 in a mosque in the Burj Al Shimali refugee camp, in the southern Lebanese city of Tyre, is a vivid reminder of Hamas’s growing organized armed presence on Lebanese territory – and Iran’s role in helping it grow.


_Nothing like a funeral to bring out weapons, ammo and gun battles for competing Islamic terrorist franchises._


The blast killed a Hamas engineer named Hamza Ibrahim Shahine, whose funeral turned into a gun battle between gunmen from Fatah and Hamas, leaving three people reportedly dead.



_It’s gratifying when these fine folks can work out their differences like the rational, mature adults they are. _


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely people.

The international community bears a great deal of shared responsibility for the schools that churn out these Islamic sociopaths.

Collectively, it is the international community that showers money on these Islamic terrorist enclaves while demanding very little accountability for how the money is spent.












						The Palestinian School of Terrorism
					

A Palestinian teacher and three school children were directly involved in the recent spate of terror attacks against Israelis in Jerusalem and the West Bank. This came as little surprise to those fami




					www.jewishpress.com
				




A Palestinian teacher and three school children were directly involved in the recent spate of terror attacks against Israelis in Jerusalem and the West Bank. This came as little surprise to those familiar with the ongoing hate and incitement against Israel in Palestinian schools and textbooks, as well as in the media, mosques and university campuses.

On November 21, Fadi Abu Shkhaydam, a 42-year-old high school teacher from Shuafat refugee camp in Jerusalem, shot and killed Eli Kay, a 26-year-old immigrant from South Africa. The shooting attack took place in the Old City of Jerusalem. Four other people were injured before the terrorist was shot dead by police.


Abu Shkhaydam was an Islamic studies teacher at Al-Rashidiyeh Boys’ School in east Jerusalem. That the school is run by (Israel’s) Municipality of Jerusalem did not bother the terrorist, who was later described as a member of Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

Another pallywood fail.


----------



## Hollie

People with a fake identity naturally use fake news.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear.

Those _Poor, oppressed Pal’istanians™._

If only we gave them more welfare money.


----------



## Hollie

It’s a disease in need of a cure.


----------



## Hollie

It’s remarkable to read of the fortunes amassed by the Pally welfare kings.

Poor Mahmoud. He’s a relative beggar compared to his contemporaries.


----------



## Hollie

I suspect legitimacy envy is the real lacking that eats away at the competing Islamic terrorist enclaves. 










						The Palestinian Authority has Jesus envy: PMW in Jer. Post | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian Jesus ideology contradicts Christianity, is insulting to believing Christians, and is part of a larger more dangerous message




					palwatch.org
				





The Palestinian Authority has Jesus envy: PMW in Jer. Post​Itamar Marcus  | Dec 26, 2021
Palestinian Jesus ideology contradicts Christianity,
is insulting to believing Christians,  
and is part of a larger more dangerous message.​




*The Palestinian Authority has Jesus envy*​This rewriting of history is so important to the PA that it repeats these fictions every year, especially around Christmas time.​


----------



## Hollie

It is difficult to miss that one of the defining characteristics of Pally’dom is its alignment with the characteristics of brutality and violence that defines the pseudo-religion of islamism.

Images of bloody knives on the street, Israeli civilians being the objects of coordinated Islamic terrorist attacks is all just a part of happy-fun islamism.











						Latest Palestinian Attacks Are Motivated by Incitement Combined with Hamas' Interest to Increase Terror
					

Hamas and Islamic Jihad activate terrorist cadres - Latest Palestinian Attacks Are Motivated by Incitement Combined with Hamas' Interest to Increase Terror




					jcpa.org
				





Brig.-Gen. (res.) Yossi Kuperwasser
 December 19, 2021





Latest Palestinian Attacks Are Motivated by Incitement Combined with Hamas’ Interest to Increase Terror​


----------



## Hollie

The EU is certainly not alone in its failure to control the use of its welfare donations to the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank. 












						Study accuses EU of failing to push PA on terror stipends, incitement
					

B'nai Brith report says Brussels should place conditions on aid to Palestinians after years of ignoring hate speech in textbooks and payouts to assailants and families




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





The European Union has not done enough to ensure that its funding to the Palestinian Authority does not support incitement to violence and human rights violations, a study published on Tuesday argued.

“Despite existing anti-terrorism regulations, the EU has not addressed funding by the Palestinian Authority to families of convicted terrorists as well as the persistent issue of incitement to hatred and widespread antisemitism in Palestinian textbooks,” wrote researchers Tommaso Virgili and Paul Stott, who previously authored a report on hidden Muslim Brotherhood networks in Europe.


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems parading around as “Pallys” seem to be really angry about something. It seems they have this impression that Ottoman Turk lands they occupied is somehow a forever Arab entitlement.











						PA seeks to undo the result of Balfour Declaration and have Israel “disappear” | PMW Analysis
					

Girl from Fatah calls Balfour “a traitor of humanity,” vows to “fight… with the blood of Martyrs” to erase Israel




					palwatch.org
				




PA seeks to undo the result of Balfour Declaration and have Israel “disappear”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Dec 27, 2021
*PA school kids taught that the Balfour Declaration is: *​
*“The filthiest colonialist promise in human history”*​
*“the ugliest historical injustice”*​
*“Palestine is ours and will not be a homeland of the Jews”*​
*“We will give our children’s blood” to undo Balfour Declaration, says Fatah official in Gaza*​
*Girl from Fatah calls Balfour “a traitor of humanity,” vows to “fight… with the blood of Martyrs” to erase Israel *​
*The Balfour Declaration was “a declaration of war against Palestine” – editorial in official PA daily*​
*The Balfour Declaration helped Europeans realize two goals: “Get rid of the Jewish problem in Europe” and “ensure their colonialist interests in the Near East and Far East” – columnist in official PA daily*​
*Fatah: “The Balfour Promise was and will remain the most shocking crime in modern human history” whose goal was “to empty the land of Palestine of its people” and “build a military apparatus” so that the Jews “would fulfill a role for the global colonialist system”*​
Question: What was *“a crime against humanity,” “the filthiest colonialist promise in human history,”* and *“the ugliest historical injustice”*?


----------



## Hollie

Who needs potable water for indoor plumbing when ya’ have the gee-had?

Islam means _submission_ no running water.


----------



## Hollie

Sociopaths in training.


----------



## Hollie

After all this screaming and yelling, what’s for lunch?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Naturally, Gaza's terror leaders responded by saying they prefer war to easing restrictions.




> Informed sources stated that the resistance factions informed the concerned mediators, especially the Egyptian mediator, of their rejection of any Israeli solutions or proposals represented in a formal easing of the restrictions imposed on the Strip.
> 
> In turn, the spokesman for the Islamic Jihad Movement, Tariq Ezz El-Din, said: "The Israeli talk about alleged easing will not deceive the resistance factions, and it will not be a substitute for lifting the siege, nor will it succeed in absorbing the anger of the resistance."



Hamas issued a press release where they said that they prefer war to any other solution:


> The Islamic Resistance Movement "Hamas" affirmed that the choice of comprehensive resistance, primarily armed resistance, and igniting the intifada in the face of the occupation, is the way to extract our rights, liberate our land, and defend our people, our principles, our sanctities and our prisoners, and it is capable of deterring the occupier, curbing his aggression, and stopping his crimes.


Gazans know who wants peace and who wants them to be under constant war. 
It is notable that Hamas' press release was for the 13th anniversary of the start of the 2008-2009 Gaza war, on December 27.

However, at the time, Hamas had declared that it started the war three days earlier, with a barrage of rockets they called Operation Oil Stain. Throughout the war Hamas maintained that they were the ones who started it. Now, they choose to say that Israel started it - by responding to their rockets.

(full article online)









						Terror groups reject Israel making life easier for Gazans, preferring war
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ali Express says it will not serve Palestinians beginning in 2022
					

The reason for the move is commercial and not political: Palestinian mail authorities refuse to handle mail addressed to Israel, which many Palestinian shoppers put down as the destination country.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Pally heroes are suicide bombers.​​​Fatah Facebook page calls suicide terrorist “hero” on anniversary of her attack​Official Fatah Facebook page  | Mar 29, 2013
*





Page administrator:* "Today is the 11th anniversary of Ayyat Al-Akhras' Martyrdom death, resident of the Dheisheh refugee camp in Bethlehem, 17 year-old who blew herself up in a shopping center in Jerusalem. In her operation, Ayyat - who should have worn a wedding dress - put on the Palestinian keffiyeh and army uniform."

*Caption on picture:*
"The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades,
the military wing of the Fatah movement"
"Committed to the promise"
"Hero Martyrdom-Seeker, Ayyat Al-Akhras."


----------



## Hollie

If the Shia Iranian backed Islamic terrorist franchises are prompted by the Mullocrats to step up attacks on Israel, UNRWA may want to preemptively step up another welfare begging campaign. 












						Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad agree to step up terror attacks against Israel
					

Palestinian political analysts believe that among its other goals, the deal struck by the terror groups aims to undermine the Palestinian Authority.The post Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad agree to step




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				











The Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terrorist groups agreed on a plan to increase cooperation and ramp up terrorist attacks, particularly in Judea and Samaria, during “a lengthy leadership meeting” on Saturday,” according to the _Palestine Information Center_


----------



## Hollie

Lifestyles of the rich and terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

JDAM's can offer a convincing rebuttal to Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> JDAM's can offer a convincing rebuttal to Islamic terrorism.


It is all Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It is all Palestine.


 
No it is not. Your hurt feelings don’t change the facts.

This obsession of yours with a long ago Islamist caliphate is a pathology.


----------



## Hollie

*Hurt Feelings Alert!*

The Pally’s are having a real difficult time with the fact that their status as the pampered darlings of the Arab Middle East is fading. Their relevance to the surrounding Arab nations becomes less and less as social, political and economic ties with Israel and the West strengthen. As the benefits of those relations build, we see the Pallys becoming willing pawns of Shia Iran. 











						PLO condemns Morocco - UAE - Israel football matches | PMW Analysis
					

PLO: Friendly football matches between Arab states and Israel are “an insult” and “a serious and deep stab in the heart of every free Arab”




					palwatch.org
				





PLO condemns Morocco - UAE - Israel football matches​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 28, 2021

*PLO: Friendly football matches between Arab states and Israel are “an insult” and “a serious and deep stab in the heart of every free Arab”*​
In an official statement, the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports has condemned football teams from Morocco and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for participating in friendly matches with Israeli teams in Israel.

The PLO council called the matches “an insult” to Palestinians and “a serious and deep stab in the heart of every free Arab.” It warned the Arab teams not to “fall into the trap of a Nazi occupation,” stating that it would shake their hands with hands “covered in the blood of Palestine’s children.” [Official PA daily_ Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 14, 2021]

Similarly, a regular columnist for the official PA daily complained over the Palestinian media’s lack of focus on “the stench of normalization that wafted from” the match between the FIFA Arab Legends team and the FIFA World Legends team in Dubai on Dec. 17, 2021. The “stench” arose from the fact that an Israeli who the columnist coined “Zionist coach Avram Grant,” was coaching FIFA World Legends team:


> “I [was] monitoring the normalization match between the former Arab stars and the former world stars, which took place two days before the [Arab Cup] final* in the presence of Zionist coach Avram Grant*… The media did not focus on Algerian stars Rabah Madjer, Rafik Saïfi, and Rafik Halliche’s withdrawal from the match *in protest of the stench of normalization that wafted from it*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 21, 2021]


----------



## Hollie

The Pally playbook being, Pally Islamic terrorists attack Israel, Israel responds with force to re-landscapes those areas used by Pally Islamic terrorists to wage war and when the Pally Islamic terrorists suffer a meaningful beat down, they call for a Hudna.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In an official statement, the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports has condemned football teams from Morocco and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for participating in friendly matches with Israeli teams in Israel.

The PLO council called the matches “an insult” to Palestinians and “a serious and deep stab in the heart of every free Arab.” It warned the Arab teams not to “fall into the trap of a Nazi occupation,” stating that it would shake their hands with hands “covered in the blood of Palestine’s children.” [Official PA daily_Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 14, 2021]

Similarly, a regular columnist for the official PA daily complained over the Palestinian media’s lack of focus on “the stench of normalization that wafted from” the match between the FIFA Arab Legends team and the FIFA World Legends team in Dubai on Dec. 17, 2021. The “stench” arose from the fact that an Israeli who the columnist coined “Zionist coach Avram Grant,” was coaching FIFA World Legends team:

(full article online)









						PLO condemns Morocco - UAE - Israel football matches | PMW Analysis
					

PLO: Friendly football matches between Arab states and Israel are “an insult” and “a serious and deep stab in the heart of every free Arab”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

It seems pretty clear why the Islamic terrorist franchises would be ramping up their attacks on Israelis. Their Shia Iranian backers are going to demand that in exchange for Mulla’bucks flowing to the Pally gee-had. 






			https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/analysis-why-palestinian-violence-is-again-on-the-rise/
		


Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, two Gaza-based terror groups, closed an alliance at the beginning of last week to step up terror attacks in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem. The commanders of the Hamas and PIJ military branches met last Sunday to discuss intensifying cooperation between the two terrorist groups.


----------



## Hollie

The really lurid conspiracy theories floated by the Pallys seem to be a product of fear and desperation.












						All terrorists are “innocent civilians” and victims of an Israeli plot according to the PA | PMW Analysis
					

PA’s fake news present female stabber as innocent civilian “attacked by the occupation forces”




					palwatch.org
				




All terrorists are “innocent civilians” and victims of an Israeli plot according to the PA​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 29, 2021

*PA’s fake news present female stabber as innocent civilian “attacked by the occupation forces”*



Earlier this month, a 65-year-old Palestinian woman named Sa’diyya Farajallah stabbed an Israeli civilian near the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron. The 38-year-old Israeli man fought her in self-defense until she was arrested by Israeli police.

But in the PA’s fake news the story was different. According to official PA TV, Farajallah was “attacked,” “beaten,” and “wounded” for no reason by “the occupation forces.” PA TV never mentioned the fact that Farajallah had stabbed an Israeli man:


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise may have decided there weren’t enough of its teenagers sacrificed at the altar of gee-had.

The “Martyrs of al-Aqua” will address that.


----------



## Hollie

What was the old Doritos commercial?

“We’ll make more”





The Pallys stole that slogan and apply it to their sacrificial children.


----------



## Hollie

A pattern seen in many cults is, “get em’ while they’re young”.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Christmas message op-ed on Palestinian news site Amad by Dr. Mustafa Youssef Al-Ledawi proves, for the umpteenth time, that Palestinian anti-Zionism and antisemitism are the same thing.



> Christians celebrate in the whole world, in these blessed days of every year, Christmas, and their eyes aspire to occupied Palestine, the blessed land where he was born and grew up where Jesus peace be upon him.
> 
> In these blessed days, Christians ask God in the highest, the joy among people, and they seek from Him peace on Earth peace, in an eternal and eternal message, that they are people of love and peace, and followers of a noble prophet who preceded our Messenger Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace by years, and preach him with knowledge and certainty, so congratulations to the Christians on the night of Christmas, full of goodness, abundant in giving, full of justice and peace.
> 
> But the land of Christ Jesus son of Mary, peace be upon them both, is a lawless, occupier, usurped by a rogue gang of old enemies of Christ, who envied and betrayed him, and conspired against him and wanted to kill him, and prepared for his crucifixion, had it not been for God Almighty’s care for him that saved him from their evils...
> 
> The land of Christ, peace be upon him, appeals to the world on Christmas Day from the oppression of the Jews and the oppression of the Children of Israel, who are corrupting the land, killing people, uprooting trees, destroying stones, plundering the land from its owners, and building settlements and colonies over it, until the cities of Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit almost Sahour is joined to the city of Jerusalem, due to the large number of settlement belts that surrounded it and attached it to what it called the Greater City of Jerusalem, which is the holy city that embraces the Church of the Holy Sepulcher... that the Jews have been desecrating and expelling the worshipers from, and today they are trying to distort it, strip it of its endowments, deprive it of its land, and restrict its followers.



Merry Christmas to all, except for the usurping, villainous, prophet-killing Jews!










						Palestinian Christmas message: Peace on Earth, goodwill towards man, hate the Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( This child, and many like him/her, were born to continue the work of Al Husseini, who refused to accept Jews as human beings and their right to legally recreate their Jewish Nation on their historical Jewish homeland.  The homeland the Al Husseini moved into around the 10th or 11th century CE.  
Palestinian land.  Sure !!!!   )


----------



## Mindful

The following video of some palestinian Arabs reacting to a house demolition in Hebron* has been disseminated by anti-Israel social media accounts.

The bulldozer is not the only thing chewing up scenery here. This seems to be textbook Pallywood.

Note the young woman near the beginning “crying” while hugging the boy. At around 9 seconds, she briefly looks to the side, in the direction of the camera, and continues her “crying.” We then see the crying boys and shrieking lady, all in front of the cameras. Then towards the end the same young woman from the beginning is being “consoled” by someone else, this time another woman. She is trading partners like at a dance club.

Another angle of that last scene makes the contrivance even clearer.

The young woman is facing another camera while the shrieking lady does her thing in front of a second camera. At around 10 seconds, crying lady and shrieking lady quickly stop doing their thing, looking to the right. Some have speculated they were told “cut”, but I am not sure. Still, it looks mighty suspicious that in a blink of an eye, they turn off the “emotion.”

What is clear is that these people are _deliberately_ trying to tug at the heartstrings in front of multiple cameras. The sad thing is that this sort of thing works all too effectively.









						The Crying Game
					

The following video of some palestinian Arabs reacting to a house demolition have been disseminated by anti-Israel social media accounts




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is busy meeting with Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz for “trust building,” his Fatah Movement is preparing for its 57th anniversary on Jan. 1st, which celebrates Fatah’s 57 years of terror on the date of its first terror attack against Israel in 1965, attempting to blow up Israel's National Water Carrier.

But while Abbas is telling Gantz words of trust, a look at what his Fatah is telling Palestinians about Fatah’s values pretty much tears that trust to pieces.

As Fatah’s anniversary approaches, Abbas’ movement is reminding Palestinians what it’s all about: Terror and death as Martyrs for “Palestine”!

Celebrating the upcoming anniversary of the _Intilaqa_ – “the Launch” of Fatah, Fatah’s branch in Hebron posted the poster above of masked men in military uniform wearing yellow Fatah headbands and holding assault rifles. The posted text states that Fatah’s goal is “victory” and “liberation” of all imprisoned terrorists:

(full article online)









						The crux of Abbas’ Fatah remains: Terror and Martyrdom for “Palestine” as Fatah celebrates 57 years of terror | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “We are the ones who give birth to a Martyr every day”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Show of hands, please. Who is surprised?

Perhaps Slow Joe should just give them more welfare money. 











						Biden Admin Ignores Law to Sanction Hamas and Hezbollah for Civilian Shield Use, Lawmakers Say
					

The Biden administration is ignoring a congressional mandate to impose sanctions on the Iranian-backed terror groups Hamas and Hezbollah for their use of human shields in combat, according to a bipartisan coalition of lawmakers.




					freebeacon.com
				




The Biden administration is ignoring a congressional mandate to impose sanctions on the Iranian-backed terror groups Hamas and Hezbollah for their use of human shields in combat, according to a bipartisan coalition of lawmakers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

To commemorate the 57th anniversary of Fatah's first terror attack, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades of Fatah held a military parade in the  Burj Al-Barajneh camp in Beirut.

They marched with weapons including rifles, bazookas and machine guns.











The camp features a mural of Palestinian terrorist heroes of all factions - not just Fatah but Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

(full article online)









						Fatah holds a military parade - in a Beirut suburb
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

We can empathize with those people in Gaza who do not share Hamas’ goals, if not those who prioritize their well-being (and are willing for Hamas to endanger their children) over Israel’s destruction.



“I want work more than rockets,” Ali el-Jeredly told the _Times_. The 28-year-old Jeredly, who is unemployed, is waiting to apply for a permit to work in Israel.

The _Times_ piece points out that unemployment in Gaza exceeds 40 percent and only10 percent have direct access to water, which is attributed to UNICEF. Gaza residents who need admittance to Israeli hospitals that perform complex medical procedures are subject to entry restrictions across the border.

The article adds that “Gazans also blame Hamas for exacerbating conditions through nepotism, corruption and incompetence, and for diverting too much money from social programs to military infrastructure.”

 recall reading that during an Israeli bombing attack that Hamas urged Gaza residents to climb to the roof of a building so that their presence can either deter an attack or martyr themselves so the world can witness Israel’s murder of innocent civilians. Some Gazans balked at the idea.

Even if most Gazans blame Israel for the deaths of their neighbors, they do not sound like people whose top priority is fighting with Israel. They first want to live normal lives. If they still seek Israel’s destruction, it is probably because of Hamas’ propaganda. Obviously, the news they receive conveniently ignores important information that might lead the people of Gaza to a different conclusion as to who did what-when and, especially, who is really oppressing them.

With all that, Hamas can breathe easy if a senior Israeli Army official’s take is correct. “We don’t want to defeat Hamas,” he said as quoted anonymously in the_ Times,_ because its main adversary in Gaza “is not better than Hamas.” He spoke on the condition of anonymity in accordance with Israeli protocol.

(full article online )









						Hamas' woes in Gaza
					

The alternative to Hamas may well be worse, but its leaders still plan to destroy Israel while many of the people want water and jobs.Op-ed




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

How could a man with four kids and a pregnant wife possibly want to jeopardize that?

Perhaps because he wanted to be a hero:




> The Islamic Resistance Movement ( Hamas ) mourns its martyr hero Mujahid Amir Atef Rayan from Qarawat Bani Hassan, who rose to life after carrying out a heroic stabbing operation today, Friday, with an unplanned coming.
> 
> These operations are a natural response to the crimes of the enemy and its settlers.
> 
> A thousand greetings to the spirit of the heroic martyr and to all the heroes of the stabbing and ramming operations and the heroes of the resistance who clash every night with the enemy and its settlers, and we call upon the masses of our people to confront the occupation army and its herds of settlers.
> 
> The convoys of martyrs will remain a beacon that illuminates the path for our people towards freedom and independence, and the purification of our sanctuary, our sanctuaries, and our holy sites from the impurity of the occupation and its usurping settlers.



And no one in Palestinian media ever asks why people who attack Jews and get killed are considered heroes, encouraging more.

(full article online)









						Innocent victim in some Palestinian media, heroic martyr to Hamas
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Hamas Military Drill in Gaza Simulates Kidnapping IDF Soldiers, Attacking Israeli Military Positions​





The Israeli response to an actual Islamic terrorist attack will be a thorough drubbing of the Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hamas Military Drill in Gaza Simulates Kidnapping IDF Soldiers, Attacking Israeli Military Positions​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli response to an actual Islamic terrorist attack will be a thorough drubbing of the Islamic terrorists.


Cool, attacking foreign invading troops is not terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool, attacking foreign invading troops is not terrorism.


There is no invasion, so again, you make totally unsupported statements.


----------



## Hollie

They’re so cute when they use their female children for the gee-had. 











						Palestinian Girls' Primary School Student Recites A Poem In Honor Of Fatah Anniversary: Oh Lord, Banish The Scoundrels From My Land And Liberate It From The Jews
					

In a ceremony held in honor of Fatah's 57th anniversary at Omar Bin Al-Khattab girls' primary school in Jenin, a Palesti...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. The parents of the wannabe Islamic terrorist stabber are going to be crushed at the failure of this child.

Perhaps they have another child they can equip with a Koran and a knife?











						IDF thwarts stabbing attack at West Bank bus stop, kills terrorist
					

The IDF shot a Palestinian man as he ran toward a bus stop with a knife. The attack comes amid an increase in West Bank violence.




					m.jpost.com
				




The IDF thwarted a stabbing attack against civilians at a bus stop at the Giti Avishar junction in the Samaria region of the West Bank, killing the Palestinian terrorist.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool, attacking foreign invading troops is not terrorism.



Which country are the foreign troops invading from?


----------



## P F Tinmore

What do you imagine or feel when you hear the word Palestine?...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> What do you imagine or feel when you hear the word Palestine?...



Corrupt Muslim kleptocracy.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What do you imagine or feel when you hear the word Palestine?...



Palestinian terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

​PA President Abbas accuses Israel of ‘organized terrorism, ethnic cleansing’​








						Abbas accuses Israel of ‘organized terrorism, ethnic cleansing
					

Abbas was speaking on the 57th anniversary of the launch of the first attack on Israel by his ruling Fatah faction, just days after his meeting with Defense Minister Benny Gantz




					m.jpost.com
				




By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
Published: DECEMBER 31, 2021 17:34
Updated: JANUARY 1, 2022 17:09






That Mahmoud, he’s such a kidder.


Stop me if you’ve heard this one before. “A Jew walks into a realtor’s office in Gaza….”


----------



## Hollie

“Loyal soldiers”.​
As long as the welfare blood money keeps flowing. ​​
Released terrorist to Abbas: “We’ll remain your loyal soldiers”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik, and Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jan 2, 2022

*The PA sees all the terrorists, irrespective of their terror group affiliation, as having “carried out the duty of resistance” as “ordered” by the PA*​
*Irrespective of their terror group affiliation, the terrorists, also see themselves as “soldiers” of the PA*​



While the PA on the one hand is eager to disclaim responsibility for any and all terror attacks, claiming that terrorists act alone and without orders from the PA, on the other it is claiming that all imprisoned terrorists are Prisoners of War – i.e., legitimate soldiers of the PA. Moreover, it is clear that the terrorists themselves see their role as that of “soldiers” serving the PA.


----------



## Hollie

Israeli forces were performing some Islamic terrorist behavioral control measures after gee-had attacks.












						Israel hits Hamas positions in Gaza after rocket attacks
					

Israeli air attacks hit ‘rocket manufacturing site, military posts’ in the besieged Gaza Strip.




					www.aljazeera.com
				





Israel hits Hamas positions in Gaza after rocket attacks​_Israeli air attacks hit ‘rocket manufacturing site, military posts’ in the besieged Gaza Strip._


----------



## Hollie

Always their own worst enemies.


----------



## Hollie

Celebrate the current Emir of UNRWA’istan.

One of several who has ruled over the Islamic Terrorist Syndicate sometimes called Pal’istan.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Always their own worst enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 582685


Those were *all *"offers" to surrender.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Those were *all *"offers" to surrender.



Fighting the gee-had from your basement.

You are your own hero.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Those were *all *"offers" to surrender.



When the Pallies finally do surrender, will Palestine be as large as Liechtenstein?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Those were *all *"offers" to surrender.


What would the Pallys have surrendered?


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists held another fashion parade where they scurry around in military style uniforms playing army.


----------



## Hollie

It seems there is a continuing problem with labeling islamic terrorists as "radicals". More often than not, these groups are pious Moslems who know their Koran and Sunnah and follow it literally. 














						Improving Gaza's economy will not de-radicalize Hamas
					

Opinion: Israel's attempt to boost quality of life in impoverished enclave won't guarantee Gazans would stand against Jihadi principles, since this model has already failed many times in Middle East in decades past




					www.ynetnews.com
				




Improving Gaza's economy will not de-radicalize Hamas
Opinion: Israel's attempt to boost quality of life in impoverished enclave won't guarantee Gazans would stand against Jihadi principles, since this model has already failed many times in Middle East in decades past


----------



## Hollie

Golly. Those poor, oppressed Pally Islamic terrorists. They’re stirring up quite a kerfuffle about their “rights” to promote mass murder / suicide being violated by Facebook.









						Palestinians accuse Facebook of suppressing their content without justification
					

The social media giant rejects the claims, saying it removes posts that violate its standards




					www.timesofisrael.com
				







Oh, I don’t know. Allowing an Islamic terrorist syndicate to advertise their Cult degeneracy on a privately held forum is not necessarily a “right”… even for degenerates with a perceived entitlement.












						The crux of Abbas’ Fatah remains: Terror and Martyrdom for “Palestine” as Fatah celebrates 57 years of terror | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah: “We are the ones who give birth to a Martyr every day”




					palwatch.org
				







> *Posted text:* “Long live Fatah and long live the anniversary of the _Intilaqa_, *until the victory and the liberation of our prisoners and of the destination of Muhammad’s Night Journey [Jerusalem]*”
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Hebron Branch, Dec. 21, 2021]


The Hebron branch also praised Fatah as “the ones who give birth to a Martyr every day”:



> *Posted text: *“A morning of self-sacrifice, we are masters and not slaves, and *we are the ones who give birth to a Martyr every day*
> Long live Fatah”


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

(Hysterical )

The Gaza-based Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror group reportedly raised its level of alert on Saturday afternoon and evacuated bases in the Strip, anticipating a response from Israel after two rockets fired from Gaza landed off the coast of Tel Aviv earlier in the day.

The Beirut-based al-Mayadeen TV, citing unnamed sources, said the group’s armed wing, the al-Quds Brigades, evacuated all of its positions in Gaza and was preparing for the coming hours.

Palestinian media outlets — some affiliated with the Hamas terror group — also reported on Islamic Jihad raising its alert level.

(full article online)









						Islamic Jihad said on alert, evacuates bases after Gaza rockets land off Tel Aviv
					

Gaza-based terror group said bracing for Israeli response to two rockets fired at Tel Aviv coast, as IDF chief holds assessment on courses of action




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Who are the Palestinians? Rashida Tlaib, Palestinian member of congress.*

Rashida Tlaib Delivered Passionate Speeches, Sometimes Amidst Objections | 2021 Rewind​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


Drop in the bucket compared to Israel's violence.


----------



## Hollie

Thinning the islamo-herd.


----------



## Mindful

Last year, Abbas paid the family of a Palestinian terrorist who murdered two Jews 30,000 Jordanian dinars ($42,000).
By rewarding the family of al-Halabi and other terrorists who carried out attacks or murdered Jews, Abbas is also stating that he, too, is proud of those who engage in terrorism.
Some Palestinian parents, however, are proud to see their children carry out terrorist attacks or murder Jews. For these parents, it is more "honorable" if their son or daughter murders a Jew than becomes a doctor, lawyer or engineer.
Abbas and his senior officials have repeatedly made it clear that they will continue to pay monthly stipends to families of Palestinian terrorists.
This is the same Abbas who recently has been telling the Biden administration that he wants to revive the stalled peace process with Israel.
This is also the same Abbas whose government continues to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to families of terrorists and the same Abbas whose media continues to glorify terrorists by describing them as "heroes" and "martyrs" of the Palestinians.
The next time a US official arrives in Ramallah to meet with Abbas or any of his senior aides, he or she should ask them about the wild incitement against Israel and Jews, especially in the Palestinian media. They need to ask the Palestinian leaders why the PA educates its youth to admire terrorist murderers and deny Jewish history. It does not matter what the Palestinian leaders say in response; they need to be told that the indoctrination and violence will not improve the living conditions or boost the economy of the Palestinians.









						Palestinians: We Are Proud of Terrorists
					

Last year, Abbas paid the family of a Palestinian terrorist who murdered two Jews 30,000 Jordanian dinars ($42,000). By rewarding the family of al-Halabi and other terrorists who carried out attacks or murdered Jews, Abbas is also stating that he, too,




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud was on a roll. It was more of the loopy, over the rainbow, ain't comin' back tirades that define the Pally obsession with conspiracy theories and the constant lamenting of their failures. 










						Abbas and PA: “The colonialist world powers used the Jews” to create and “implement colonialist plots in the region” | PMW Analysis
					

Mahmoud Abbas: Israel’s creation was not “efforts of the Jews themselves, but rather colonialist-theological plans and visions”




					palwatch.org
				




Abbas and PA: “The colonialist world powers used the Jews” to create and “implement colonialist plots in the region”

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 4, 2022

Mahmoud Abbas: “the colonialist world powers used the Jews in order to execute the great colonialist plan – dismantling the Ottoman Empire and afterwards dismantling the Arab nation”

Mahmoud Abbas: Israel’s creation was not “efforts of the Jews themselves, but rather colonialist-theological plans and visions”

PA TV: Jewish immigration to Palestine was “a colonialist Zionist plan” … [the Jews] will return to where they came from”

PA daily: The US and GB created “the Zionist organization in their laboratories” and established “an entity that they termed ‘Israel’”

PA: US and GB created Israel to “implement colonialist plots in the region”Fatah on its anniversary: “We were and still are the obstacle to completing the colonialist project of Palestine”

Fatah defines murder of Israelis: “A quality and unprecedented national struggle”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

We’ve seen this for decades. “Peace Partners”, “Roadmaps to Nowhere” and concessions to Islamic terrorists who for decades have made the obvious point that they have no interest in peace.

They understand only an angry, retrograde, politico-religious ideology that is still fighting a war on humanity they started in the 7th century. 












						The consequences of ‘deals’ with antisemitic terror
					

European governments struck 'deals' with Palestinian terrorists, in exchange for what was deemed 'limited' concessions and collateral damage, but In too many cases that meant expendable Jewish lives.




					m.jpost.com
				





On October 9, 1982 – the end of Sukkot – a group of five Palestinian operatives attacked the Great Synagogue in central Rome with hand grenades and submachine guns, killing a two-year-old – Stefano Gaj Taché – and wounding 37 worshipers.

The attack was claimed to be a surprise to Italian authorities, though they had been warned of threats on Jewish targets in Italy, in particular, and in Europe in general following the June 1982 “Peace for Galilee” military operation, meant to break Palestinian terrorist networks in Southern Lebanon. A side effect of the operation was scores of European terrorists fleeing home from the PLO training camps... and, with them, a new wave of terrorism in France, Italy and Austria, among others.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dr. Galit Shaul, head of the Emek Hefer Regional Council through which Nahal Alexander flows, told the Committee that “my residents are not the ones polluting Nahal Alexander, but rather raw sewage and treated wastewater coming from the Palestinian Authority. Despite prizes given in the past for cooperation by the PA with our Drainage Authority, and despite the fact that a wastewater treatment plant was built with international funding, we see animal carcasses, blood, and feathers flowing in Emek Hefer and reaching the sea.”

In 2003, Nahal Alexander was part of a cleanup project that won first prize in the Riverprize environmental rehabilitation competition in Australia after being one of the most polluted rivers in Israel.

“Beaches that have two million visitors every year are closed over and over. It’s a health risk to the residents, people visiting the stream and bathers,” she warned,

Shaul pointed out that “the issue is resolvable. In 2014 the council filed a petition to the High Court of Justice against the state, and withdrew it because the state made a promise. Now there’s a plan for a wastewater treatment plant, but there’s no budget. The Water Authority is advancing the plan, after a long period that we were working on a different plan, too expensive, that was supposed to cost NIS 400 million.”

(full article online)









						’Ecological Terrorist Attack’: Raw Sewage from PA Flowing into Alexander River in Israel
					

Despite the fact that a wastewater treatment plant was built with international funding, the PA is still dumping their waste into the rivers and streams.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

“Hamas sees terrorism as the way to push Israel towards concessions - analysis”​
Well, tell us something we don’t already know. Ultimately, the there is no concession to be made by the Israelis that the Islamic terrorist franchises will accept other than the Israelis abandoning their homeland.

That really suggests only one avenue available to the Israelis which is a concerted effort to unalterably bring a crushing response to attacks from the various Islamic terrorist franchises. Appeasement will not work. 










						Hamas sees terrorism as the way to push Israel towards concessions
					

More than half a year since the last round of violent escalations between the two sides, Hamas understands that terror is the route it must take in order to push Israel to make concessions.




					m.jpost.com
				












More than half a year since the last round of violent escalations between the two sides, Hamas understands that terror is the route it must take in order to push Israel to make concessions.


----------



## Hollie

The Fatah islamic terrorist syndicate, comprising one entity of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., has trotted out an anniversary message replete with all the usual degenerate bloviating: "Death to Israel", "Kill the Jews".

Included in the freak show were children paraded around as "Dead Martyrs Walking". Where else on the planet do people explicitly push their children to be a disposable commodity?












						Fatah on its anniversary: Murderers are role models; terror will enable “Palestine” to replace Israel | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas implies PA/Fatah are prepared to use terror to get rid of Israel - “regardless of the sacrifices”




					palwatch.org
				




PMW Impact
Support PMW
Fatah on its anniversary: Murderers are role models; terror will enable “Palestine” to replace Israel

Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 6, 2022
Fatah anniversary messages:
Abbas honors “brave” terrorist prisoner “heroes,” their “struggles are lofty medals of honor”

Fatah hasn’t abandoned terror
Abbas implies PA/Fatah are prepared to use terror to get rid of Israel - “regardless of the sacrifices”

Terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led killing of 37, among them 12 children, paraded as role model at anniversary procession

Arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, who was responsible for the murder of 125, stars in anniversary music video

“O God take [the Jews] to hell… grant victory to the Muslims… and expel the despicable ones from my land and liberate it from the Jews” - student recites at PA school ceremony

Fatah’s vision for the future remains a world with no Israel: Maps of “Palestine” erase all of Israel


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Shia welfare payments are reason enough to bend and scrape at the altar of the Mullocracy. 



Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh: We Are Not A Proxy Of Iran, We Are Independent; Iran Supports Us Because This Weakens Our Shared Enemy, Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Fatah islamic terrorist syndicate, comprising one entity of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., has trotted out an anniversary message replete with all the usual degenerate bloviating: "Death to Israel", "Kill the Jews".
> 
> Included in the freak show were children paraded around as "Dead Martyrs Walking". Where else on the planet do people explicitly push their children to be a disposable commodity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah on its anniversary: Murderers are role models; terror will enable “Palestine” to replace Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Abbas implies PA/Fatah are prepared to use terror to get rid of Israel - “regardless of the sacrifices”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW Impact
> Support PMW
> Fatah on its anniversary: Murderers are role models; terror will enable “Palestine” to replace Israel
> 
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 6, 2022
> Fatah anniversary messages:
> Abbas honors “brave” terrorist prisoner “heroes,” their “struggles are lofty medals of honor”
> 
> Fatah hasn’t abandoned terror
> Abbas implies PA/Fatah are prepared to use terror to get rid of Israel - “regardless of the sacrifices”
> 
> Terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi, who led killing of 37, among them 12 children, paraded as role model at anniversary procession
> 
> Arch-terrorist Abu Jihad, who was responsible for the murder of 125, stars in anniversary music video
> 
> “O God take [the Jews] to hell… grant victory to the Muslims… and expel the despicable ones from my land and liberate it from the Jews” - student recites at PA school ceremony
> 
> Fatah’s vision for the future remains a world with no Israel: Maps of “Palestine” erase all of Israel


Do you buy terrorist cards by the case?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Do you buy terrorist cards by the case?


Are you capable of writing something of relevance?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Are you capable of writing something of relevance?


I am not the one who has to call names in every post.


----------



## Hollie

It only took until Jan. 2 for the Islamic terrorists in Gaza, and who represent the Shia Iranian Mullocracy, to encourage some building remodeling generously offered by the Islamic Terrorist Reduction Forces.


----------



## Hollie

I wonder if the Pallys are mourning the non-breathing status of their hero, Soleimani, because he signed their welfare checks.


----------



## Hollie

A graphic showing just how effective Israel has been at dealing with Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A graphic showing just how effective Israel has been at dealing with Islamic terrorism.





> The state of Israel is fighting against terrorism every day.



And has been for over 70 years and has not won yet.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> And has been for over 70 years and has not won yet.



Considering that Israel has prospered in terms of social, political and economic measures, they certainly have.    


On the other hand, the Pallys are largely third world based on those same metrics.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> On the other hand, the Pallys are largely third world based on those same metrics.



Third world, but happy.

LOL!


----------



## Hollie

Is another Gaza war inevitable?​








						Is another Gaza war inevitable? - opinion
					

Bitter experience would seem to indicate that another round is only a matter of time.




					m.jpost.com
				







Seems like a rhetorical question.

There is an undeniable pattern of behavior from both of the Pally Islamic terrorist enclaves.  They have a 1,400 year old politico-religious blood feud aimed at Jews.

Hamas is aligned with the Shia Mullocrats and as Iranian money is flowing into Gaza, the Mullahs will want obedience from Hamas. Shia Iranian money is not pouring into Gaza from a benevolent friend but from a competing sect of Islamism that is viewed as heretical by the Sunni majority.


----------



## Hollie

The dictatorship rolls on. 










						Democracy PA style | PMW Analysis
					

Today, January 9, in 2005, the Palestinian Authority held its last election for the position of Chairman/President of the PA. Mahmoud Abbas was democratically elected




					palwatch.org
				




Today, January 9, in 2005, the Palestinian Authority held its last election for the position of Chairman/President of the PA. Mahmoud Abbas was democratically elected. Section 3(2) of the 2007 PA Law Pertaining the General Elections states that “The presidential office term shall be four years. He/she shall not be elected for more than two terms.” Despite the ostensible PA law, Mahmoud Abbas can today celebrate the beginning of his 18th year of his first 4-year term as PA Chairman.


----------



## Hollie

I’m surprised the Islamic terrorists aren’t building a new street they can name after their dead man walking hero. 











						The PA’s next excuse to incite violence - the death of an imprisoned terrorist murderer | PMW Analysis
					

As it has done on previous occasions when imprisoned terrorist died of illnesses, when Abu Hmeid dies, the PA will accuse Israel of “medical negligence” and will “hold Israel responsible” for his death. The real cause of Abu Hmeid’s death or the fact that he received comprehensive medical...




					palwatch.org
				





Imprisoned terrorist murderer Nasser Abu Hmeid is reportedly in critical condition suffering from cancer. While the Palestinian Authority does not particularly need a special reason, when Abu Hamid dies, the PA will use his death as an excuse to incite violence that could potentially spread widely.

For the PA, Nasser Abu Hmeid is not just “another terrorist”. Rather, he holds a special position in the hearts and minds of PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party. Aside from his personal “celebrity status,” Abu Hmeid is one of the terrorist sons of Latifa Abu Hmeid, the woman honored by Abbas to lead the PA’s drive for UN membership, solely due to the fact that she was then the mother of 5 terrorist murderers. Since then, another one of her sons was also convicted of murder.


----------



## Hollie

Senior PFLP Member Khaled Barakat at Pro-Palestinian Rally in Vancouver: We Stand Behind Our Troops in Gaza; The Gate of the Al-Aqsa Mosque Is Made of Iron, It will Only be Opened by Martyrs









						Senior PFLP Member Khaled Barakat At Pro-Palestinian Rally In Vancouver: We Stand Behind Our Troops In Gaza; The Gate Of The Al-Aqsa Mosque Is Made Of Iron, It will Only Be Opened By Martyrs
					

Senior PFLP Member and leader of Samidoun Khaled Barakat addressed a pro-Palestinian rally marking Nakba Day in Vancouve...




					www.memri.org
				






Oh, I don’t know. Vancouver seems like a rather long way from the gates of “martyrdom”.

Khaled “the conqueror” needs to check his kuffar google map directions.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas is an ideological offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood which is banned in Egypt. The Egyptian government has no sense of humor when it comes to the MB and associations with Hamas.

Collaboration means time in the Hoosegow. 











						Egypt hands life sentence to Muslim Brotherhood leader for Hamas espionage
					

Mahmoud Ezzat found guilty of collaborating with Gaza-ruling terror group, after receiving a life term in a separate case




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




CAIRO — Egypt sentenced Mahmoud Ezzat, the 77-year-old top leader of the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood group, to life in jail Sunday after he was found guilty of “collaborating with Hamas,” a judicial source said.


----------



## Mindful

"'Free Palestine!' says actress Emma Watson.

She’s right.

The territories where the Palestinian Arabs live are indeed enslaved. 

They deserve to be freed from the tyrannical rule of their oppressors—Hamas and the Palestinian Authority."









						Emma Watson Is Right
					

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas attends a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi, Russia November 23, 2021. Sputnik/Evgeny Biyatov/Kremlin …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

Breeding sociopaths. Get em' while they're young.







At Kindergarten Graduation Ceremonies in the West Bank, Children Dance with Toy Guns, Fatah Headbands: We Will Not Leave Al-Aqsa Even If Millions Are Martyred (Archival)









						At Kindergarten Graduation Ceremonies In The West Bank, Children Dance With Toy Guns, Fatah Headbands: We Will Not Leave Al-Aqsa Even If Millions Are Martyred (Archival)
					

This clip is a compilation of kindergarten graduation ceremonies that took place in Tulkarm in the West Bank in the summ...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

There are privileges that Islamic dictators reserve for themselves. 

The Islamic terrorist dictators ruling Gaza are similarly wealthy. Decades of showering welfare money on these misfits has consequences.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. Let’s hope no Korans were martyred in the explosion of the Islamic terrorist gee-had planning and operations center.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A vast majority of Palestinians would like to see corporal punishment for crimes like theft and stoning as a punishment for adultery. A majority would like their state to give the death penalty for those who leave Islam. Most Palestinians say that it is a bad thing that their current laws do not adhere closely to sharia law.

There is nothing in common between these two views of what a single Palestine would be. The majority of Palestinians have no interest in the secular paradise that you see described in the pages of Open Democracy and The Guardian and Jacobin. Most Palestinians say that their end goal is not one state with equal rights for Jews but one Palestinian state from the river to the sea where Jews are, at best, tolerated second class citizens - and many openly advocate for deporting any Zionist from the country altogether.

Polls show that a mere 10% of Palestinians want a state with equal rights between Jews and Muslims. The latest political polls show that socialist parties like the PFLP and DFLP would only get 2% of the vote in any election held now. 

Palestinians hate socialism. They prefer Islamism. 

Palestinians do not want equal rights for Arabs and Jews. They want an Islamic state.

Everything written about a one-state solution in the pages of the Washington Post and the New York Times is fiction. The Western Leftists will trot out people with Arabic-sounding names who write passionately about a single state with equal rights for all as if they represent Palestinian public opinion.

Only rarely does the Left admit that the idea of equal rights for Jews in a majority Arab state is problematic. Edward Said, the intellectual father of the one state idea, admitted in 2000 that he couldn't see how Jews would be treated equally in his solution. "It worries me a great deal. The question of what is going to be the fate of the Jews is very difficult for me. I really don't know."

(full article online)









						When the utopian vision of a one-state socialist "Palestine" crashes into Palestinian Islamism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

A deadly trash trade is poisoning Palestinians in the West Bank
					

Burning Israeli scrap for valuable raw metals is a lethal livelihood for thousands of Palestinians, sending cancer rates skyrocketing in villages near Hebron




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There are privileges that Islamic dictators reserve for themselves.
> 
> The Islamic terrorist dictators ruling Gaza are similarly wealthy. Decades of showering welfare money on these misfits has consequences.


What can you expect from a US installed oligarch?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi | IMPRISONED AT 16 | Truth to Power with Lowkey​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi, the Kid Activist I ARTE Documentary​


----------



## Hollie

Kuffar innovated social media has become a favored vehicle for organizing Islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## Hollie

There is a 1,400 year old pattern of Arabs-Moslems and female child abuse.

Some “cultural” norms are here to stay.


----------



## Hollie

As is a predictable pattern of sociopathic behavior from the islamic terrorist enclave, we see all the usual appeals to social misfits who are groomed for self destruction in the service of the islamist gee-had. 











						Abbas and Fatah declare support and esteem for terrorists, imply continued terror salaries | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas honors “brave” terrorist prisoner “heroes,” their “struggles are lofty medals of honor” - on Fatah anniversary




					palwatch.org
				






Abbas and Fatah declare support and esteem for terrorists, imply continued terror salaries
Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Jan 11, 2022
Abbas honors “brave” terrorist prisoner “heroes,” their “struggles are lofty medals of honor” - on Fatah anniversary

Top PA official Rajoub on terrorists: “We all bow before the greatness of our heroic prisoners”

On the occasion of Fatah’s recent anniversary Fatah leaders and officials, among them its Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, reiterated and emphasized their support and esteem for all terrorists – imprisoned and wounded, as well the ones killed while attacking Israelis - the Martyrs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Annemarie Jacir on President Trump's Jerusalem declaration and the state of cinema in Palestine​


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Christmas message from that little town of Bethlehem.​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> A Christmas message from that little town of Bethlehem.



I thought Christmas was in December.


----------



## Hollie

Happy-fun islamic terrorism, until the incoming starts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

After the supposed victory of Israel agreeing not to renew the administrative detention of hunger striker Hisham Abu Hawwash, there is now a huge campaign among all Palestinian factions for Israel to release terrorist Nasser Abu Hamid.

Unlike Hawwash, Abu Hamid is a convicted terrorist. He is now in Barzilai Medical Center with cancer. His condition has reportedly deteriorated in recent weeks and he now has pneumonia. 

His photo is all over Palestinian websites, and today an Algerian newspaper Al-Wasat Al-Maghrebi  added an entire two page supplement praising this Arab hero.

Abu Hamid was the top deputy of Marwan Barghouti, the head of the Tanzim terror group. He was convicted of seven murders and he helped facilitate more. He refused to participate in the trial, but in the end

Here are the people he was responsible for murdering.

Those aren't his only victims. Abu Hamid had been convicted of murdering nine people previously - and had gotten released from prison as part of the Oslo "peace" Accords. 

In court, he admitted to the murders and said that murdering these Jews (and one Druze) was legitimate in the fight against Israel. 

His brothers have been convicted of murdering twelve more Israelis. Their mother is considered a model for Palestinian women.

Dying painfully of cancer is too good for Nasser Abu Hamid. May he rot in hell very soon. 


(full article online)









						An Arab hero is in an Israeli hospital with cancer. Here are seven of the Israelis he murdered.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Arab paranoia is somewhat comical, the Hamas maritime threat is no laughing matter.

During the 11-day conflict in May 2021, Hamas claimed it had drone submarines carrying explosives and capable of navigating themselves to maritime targets before blowing up. Israel destroyed one shortly after its launch. It’s believed that Iran is assisting Hamas in developing small drone ships and submarines while providing the terror group with military-grade underwater gear.

During the Gaza conflict of 2014, four Hamas frogman infiltrated Israel from the sea about one mile up the coast from the border. They were quickly spotted and killed by a tank shell. Automatic weapons, explosives and grenades were found on their bodies.










						Hamas Frogmen Chased Off By ‘Killer Zionist Dolphin’ | United with Israel
					

Arab paranoia and conspiracy theories may be comical, but the Hamas maritime threat is no laughing matter.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> While Arab paranoia is somewhat comical, the Hamas maritime threat is no laughing matter.
> 
> During the 11-day conflict in May 2021, Hamas claimed it had drone submarines carrying explosives and capable of navigating themselves to maritime targets before blowing up. Israel destroyed one shortly after its launch. It’s believed that Iran is assisting Hamas in developing small drone ships and submarines while providing the terror group with military-grade underwater gear.
> 
> During the Gaza conflict of 2014, four Hamas frogman infiltrated Israel from the sea about one mile up the coast from the border. They were quickly spotted and killed by a tank shell. Automatic weapons, explosives and grenades were found on their bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Frogmen Chased Off By ‘Killer Zionist Dolphin’ | United with Israel
> 
> 
> Arab paranoia and conspiracy theories may be comical, but the Hamas maritime threat is no laughing matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unitedwithisrael.org



I love a happy ending.


----------



## Hollie

I think the leftist media tends to fail at many things, among them, often being a propaganda arm for Islamic terrorist lowlifes.











						Media Fail to Connect Dots Between Palestinian NGOs and PFLP Terrorist Group
					

In 1969, members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror group are pictured flaunting their weapons …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Media Fail to Connect Dots Between Palestinian NGOs and PFLP Terrorist Group​



In 1969, members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror group are pictured flaunting their weapons in the mountains east of the Jordan River. Photo: Thomas R. Koeniges via Wikimedia Commons.

After Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz in October 2021 designated six Palestinian non-governmental organizations as terror groups due to their close ties to the US-designated Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), leading news outlets ran numerous articles casting doubt on the merits of Jerusalem’s decision


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I think the leftist media tends to fail at many things, among them, often being a propaganda arm for Islamic terrorist lowlifes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Media Fail to Connect Dots Between Palestinian NGOs and PFLP Terrorist Group
> 
> 
> In 1969, members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror group are pictured flaunting their weapons …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.algemeiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Media Fail to Connect Dots Between Palestinian NGOs and PFLP Terrorist Group​
> 
> 
> 
> In 1969, members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror group are pictured flaunting their weapons in the mountains east of the Jordan River. Photo: Thomas R. Koeniges via Wikimedia Commons.
> 
> After Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz in October 2021 designated six Palestinian non-governmental organizations as terror groups due to their close ties to the US-designated Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), leading news outlets ran numerous articles casting doubt on the merits of Jerusalem’s decision





Hollie said:


> Media Fail to Connect Dots Between Palestinian NGOs and PFLP Terrorist Group


Because there isn't any. These groups are not affiliated with any political party.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Because there isn't any. These groups are not affiliated with any political party.


Which we know is false.


----------



## Hollie

As so often happens, the islamic terrorists exploit young females for their Cult fantasies.












						“We replaced bracelets with weapons” song chosen by the PA for Expo 2020 Dubai | PMW Analysis
					

“We replaced bracelets with weapons” - song glorifying violence




					palwatch.org
				




“We replaced bracelets with weapons” song chosen by the PA for Expo 2020 Dubai​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 12, 2022

*“We replaced bracelets with weapons” - song glorifying violence*​
*Second song at event misrepresented Israeli cities as in “Palestine”*​



Last month, the PLO embassy in the United Arab Emirates celebrated Palestinian National Day at the Expo 2020 in Dubai. Among the songs at the event was the well-known Palestinian hit _Oh Flying Bird_ that presents a world without Israel, misrepresenting several Israeli cities as if they were in “Palestine.” Another song, a PA terror promoting classic, was also featured at the event: _Pull the Trigger_ glorifies violence and announces that “we replaced bracelets with weapons.” Both messages are of course in line with PA policies and ideologies as Palestinian Media Watch has exposed. While _Oh Flying Bird_denies the existence of Israel and tells the story of a bird that visits places in “Palestine” that include Israeli cities like Jaffa, Acre, and Haifa, _Pull the Trigger_ calls on Palestinians to “redeem the country” by using violence. The following are excerpts of the songs broadcast live by official PA TV from the event:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Which we know is false.


What do you mean we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Let me see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it. Let's say that a man is the member of a church. He is also the member of a union. Does that mean that the church and the union are affiliated? Of course not. They are two separate entities.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Let me see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it. Let's say that a man is the member of a church. He is also the member of a union. Does that mean that the church and the union are affiliated? Of course not. They are two separate entities.



Now let's say the union is a terrorist group and the church supports the terrorist group.
Now let's say that church members also carry out terror attacks.
Now we can say the affiliated groups are both terror organizations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> What do you mean we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
> 
> Let me see if I can make this simple enough that even you can understand it. Let's say that a man is the member of a church. He is also the member of a union. Does that mean that the church and the union are affiliated? Of course not. They are two separate entities.


That's a horrible attempt at analogy. 

What's on YouTube?


----------



## Hollie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Now let's say the union is a terrorist group and the church supports the terrorist group.
> Now let's say that church members also carry out terror attacks.
> Now we can say the affiliated groups are both terror organizations.


Oh, come on now. Everybody knows those radical, heavily armed Lutherans are affiliated with the global, organized Presbyterian terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Now let's say the union is a terrorist group and the church supports the terrorist group.
> Now let's say that church members also carry out terror attacks.
> Now we can say the affiliated groups are both terror organizations.


So now you are going to play the terrorist card.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> That's a horrible attempt at analogy.
> 
> What's on YouTube?


So, who told you that they are affiliated?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> So now you are going to play the terrorist card.



You support terrorists, I can't mention terrorism?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> So, who told you that they are affiliated?



_First, some background. On August 23, 2019, a PFLP terror cell carried out a particularly brutal attack in which they injured Rabbi Eitan Shnerb (46) and his son, Dvir (19), and murdered his daughter, Rina (17). The explosive device that killed the teenager was planted by employees of the Union of Agricultural Work Committees (UAWC), one of the six Palestinian groups outlawed by Israel.

Samer Arbid, UAWC’s accountant from 2016 until his arrest on September 25, 2019, is believed to have led the cell and detonated the bomb. The PFLP in a public statement called Arbid a “prisoner and commander,” as well as “one of the heroes of the Bubeen operation” — referring to the bombing in which Rina Shnerb was killed.

According to The Jerusalem Post, Arbid is “one of the PFLP’s officials in Ramallah and was previously arrested for involvement in terrorist activities during the Second Intifada under the direct command of the PFLP leadership, preparing explosive devices and committing terrorist attacks.”

Abdul Razaq Farraj, a longtime employee of the UAWC, was also implicated in the 2019 attack. The indictment notes that UAWC’s finance director was responsible for recruiting new members into the PFLP.









						Media Fail to Connect Dots Between Palestinian NGOs and PFLP Terrorist Group
					

In 1969, members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror group are pictured flaunting their weapons …




					www.algemeiner.com
				



_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas mouthpiece Felesteen has a series of articles on the Palestinian Authority misuse of its funds. The source is biased, but some of the numbers seem to be legitimate.

According to the articles, the public debt owed by the Palestinian Auhority in Ramallah is now at $3.702 billion, a jump of $905 million in just one year, and 53% of its GDP.

They quoted some economists about how the PA steals money from Gaza.

Dr. Osama Nofal blames Gaza's economic woes on the PA, not Israel. He says that the PA will raise cash from international donors to fund Gaza reconstruction but never gives any of the money to Gaza.   He said the PA's continued imposition of economic sanctions on Gaza caused a decline in the gross domestic product from 40 to 18%, and an increase in unemployment from 22 to 50%. Accordintg to Nofal, Gaza's share of international aid annually has been slashed from $400 million  to $20 million. 

Economist Dr. Samir Al-Daqran that the Ministry of Finance in Ramallah seizes the taxes of major companies operating in the Gaza Strip, saying ti gets $60 million a month from taxes imposed on goods that go through Kerem Shalom but none of it makes it back to Gaza.

The economists didn't mention the money coming from Iran to Gaza. 

There was one good piece of information: the articles confirmed that the PA has curtailed "pay for slay" a little bit. They reduced or stopped paying Hamas "martyr" families in Gaza, which apparently has a large effect on the Gaza economy.









						"The PA begs for money for Gaza, keeps it for itself"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Such hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits is standard fare for the Pally enclaves. 

There is something especially perverted about :

*Students played in team shirts with picture of terrorist*​
*Trophies, medals, and honorary plaques bore pictures of terrorists*​
​Kool-Aid anyone?











						Convicted murderer of 5 has tourney named after him at Birzeit University | PMW Analysis
					

Birzeit University basketball championship named after imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti




					palwatch.org
				




Convicted murderer of 5 has tourney named after him at Birzeit University​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 13, 2022

*Birzeit University basketball championship named after imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti*​
*Students played in team shirts with picture of terrorist*​
*Trophies, medals, and honorary plaques bore pictures of terrorist*​
*Birzeit University participates in the EU’s Erasmus student exchange program, and collaborates with many European countries. Would these partners endorse the participation of European students in a championship honoring a terrorist murderer?*​






Marwan Barghouti is an imprisoned Palestinian terrorist who orchestrated three shooting attacks in which 5 people were murdered during the PA’s 5-year terror campaign (2000-2005) – the second Intifada. After his imprisonment he was elected to the PA Parliament and Palestinian Media Watch has documented that he frequently comes out in Palestinian polls as the most popular choice for president of the PA, should elections be held.


----------



## Hollie

Ruh ro. A Dutch envoy is being called to the (Islamic terrorist), Principal's office. The Pallys may need to offer the envoy a cut of their UNRWA welfare fraud money to get their other welfare fraud money restored. 












						PA summons Dutch Envoy After Financial Aid Cut to Terror-Linked NGO
					

The Netherlands found what it called a “worrisome” number of board members linked to the PFLP, in addition to the fact that two employees were arrested in connection to a bombing that killed an Is




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Such hero worship of Islamic terrorist misfits is standard fare for the Pally enclaves.
> 
> There is something especially perverted about :
> 
> *Students played in team shirts with picture of terrorist*​
> *Trophies, medals, and honorary plaques bore pictures of terrorists*​
> ​Kool-Aid anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted murderer of 5 has tourney named after him at Birzeit University | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Birzeit University basketball championship named after imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convicted murderer of 5 has tourney named after him at Birzeit University​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 13, 2022
> 
> *Birzeit University basketball championship named after imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti*​
> *Students played in team shirts with picture of terrorist*​
> *Trophies, medals, and honorary plaques bore pictures of terrorist*​
> *Birzeit University participates in the EU’s Erasmus student exchange program, and collaborates with many European countries. Would these partners endorse the participation of European students in a championship honoring a terrorist murderer?*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marwan Barghouti is an imprisoned Palestinian terrorist who orchestrated three shooting attacks in which 5 people were murdered during the PA’s 5-year terror campaign (2000-2005) – the second Intifada. After his imprisonment he was elected to the PA Parliament and Palestinian Media Watch has documented that he frequently comes out in Palestinian polls as the most popular choice for president of the PA, should elections be held.


One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.


Another of your silly, cut and paste slogans


----------



## Hollie

Does Mahmoud have a room in his presidential palace to rent?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

First, Mansour Abbas did not "call" on the Palestinian people to recognize Israel. He simply stated the fact that Israel was "born as a Jewish state" and that "it will remain a Jewish state."
Second, there is no connection between accepting Israel's Jewish identity and the Islamic holy sites, including the al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Since 1967, in fact, Israel has allowed the Islamic religious authorities to have exclusive control over the mosque and other Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem.
Remarkably, since the reunification of Jerusalem in 1967, the city has become a haven for coexistence and revitalized religious and cultural expression for all faiths. Freedom of worship at all holy sites is guaranteed for the faithful of all three monotheistic religions.
Ironically, the Palestinian leadership's false claim that Israel is seeking to "harm" the al-Aqsa Mosque came as Palestinians made two attempts to set fire to Joseph's Tomb in Nablus, only because it is frequented by Jewish worshippers. The attempts, according to reports in the Palestinian media, were foiled at the last minute by the Palestinian security forces.
Third, the Palestinian leadership's claim that recognition of Israel as a Jewish state "contradicts religion and history" should be seen in the context of the Palestinians' denial of any traces of Judaism in Jerusalem.
Notably, while the PA says that it is strongly opposed to the idea of Israel being a Jewish state, it has no problem defining itself as "Arab" and "Islamic."
There are 56 countries in which Islam plays a significant role. Many of them are countries with Islam as the state religion.
The constitutions of several Arab countries, including Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, Algeria, Oman and Yemen, define them as Arab states where Islam is the religion of the state.
It is worth considering the extreme hypocrisy of this situation: the Arabs (and the Palestinians) continue their long-held policy of defining their countries as "Arab" and "Islamic," while they deny Israel the right to refer to itself what it always has been -- the Jewish state.
This does not bode well for any peace process that the Biden administration is hoping to revive between the Palestinians and Israel.
Those who refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state are actually admitting that they do not believe in Israel's right to exist.

(full article online)









						Arab Racism and the 'Jewish State'
					

First, Mansour Abbas did not "call" on the Palestinian people to recognize Israel. He simply stated the fact that Israel was "born as a Jewish state" and that "it will remain a Jewish state." Second, there is no connection between accepting Israel's




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas’ attempts, led by Saleh Arouri, to infiltrate the West Bank, worry not only Israel but Ramallah and Jordan as well. Hamas’ efforts are currently the common denominator for the cooperation required of Israel and Jordan. Israeli and Palestinian Authority forces are already operating in the Jenin region of the West Bank.

This is an opportunity to examine what is happening in Jordan. Developments there should be troubling King Abdullah II. Although Jordan is currently calm domestically, and there are no violent events like in Jenin, the Jordanian parliament is giving the king stress. According to comments from journalists close to the palace, the king views the Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas’ umbrella organization) as the source of the unrest.

In mid-December, the Jordanian parliament challenged the government’s far-reaching water and electricity agreements with Israel.2 Then, on December 28, 2021, a brawl took place while the lawmakers discussed changing the fundamental laws to ensure gender equality. When it deliberated whether to attach the Arabic feminine form of the word “Jordanian [Jordanienne(sic)]” alongside the masculine form of “Jordanian,” an uproar erupted that included swearing and an exchange of blows.3

Eventually, a compromise was reached, under which the Arabic feminine form of the word “Jordanienne” entered the fundamental laws.

The parliament passed amendments that enabled the king to appoint top public security and judicial officials, along with the grand mufti and royal advisers. An amendment was also approved to establish a National Security Council controlled by the king, which would handle all issues related to defense and security. But it came at a price. In an unprecedented move, the parliament removed the king as the head of the parliamentary security committee.4

Jordanian journalists close to the royal palace accused the Muslim Brotherhood of planning the provocations in parliament.5

The veteran leader of the Muslim Brotherhood branch in Jordan, Laith Shubeilat, did not hesitate to accuse the Brotherhood’s new generation of having ties to foreign entities – namely Iran. Shubeilat is no lapdog for the Hashemite regime; he had a strained relationship with King Hussein and was arrested several times. In a recording released on January 3, 2022, Shubeilat was heard attacking the Brotherhood leadership’s corruption: “You preserved the organization, and you did not preserve the religion.”

(full article online)









						Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood Seek to Shake Stability on Both Sides of the Jordan River
					

Has the Brotherhood set its sights on the Jordanian Regime? - Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood Seek to Shake Stability on Both Sides of the Jordan River




					jcpa.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

A string of prominent Palestinian leadership figures from the Gaza Strip have, over the last year, departed from the enclave and appear in no hurry to return.

Taken from the Strip’s ruling faction Hamas and its local affiliate and rival, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the eight commanders traded in residency in one of the world’s mostly densely populated locations for sometimes opulent lives in exile.

Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader overseas, was the first to depart Gaza — trading the Al-Shati Refugee Camp for a hotel in Doha — Ynet reported. Initially departing due to election logistics, Haniyeh remains abroad and summoned his family to join him in Qatar.

Also now residing in Doha is Khalil al-Hayya, a former lieutenant to Hamas’ head in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, who moved overseas following his promotion to manage the organization’s relations with Arab and Muslim countries, Ynet reported. Al-Hayya too remains abroad after several months and has been joined by his family.

The Israeli daily noted that three other Hamas figureheads are residing in Doha: Salah al-Bardawil, Sami Abu Zuhri and Taher Al-Nunu.

Besides Qatar, Turkey is also playing host to Gazan exiles with senior commander Fathi Hamad now living in Istanbul, from where he travels frequently to Beirut, Ynet reported.

Next to the list of absent Hamas leaders, Palestinian Islamic Jihad also has two figures who departed from Gaza in the last 12 months: Nafaz Azzam who splits his time between Syria and Lebanon, and Muhammad al-Hindi, living in Istanbul, the daily reported.

Commanders may be living overseas as they feel less easily targeted by Israel there, to improve communications with actors outside the Gaza Strip, or to avoid living in the crushing poverty experienced by most Gazans.










						Commanders in Exile: Gazan Faction Heads Quit the Strip
					

Palestinian group Hamas’ top leader, Ismail Haniyeh speaks during a protest to express solidarity with the Palestinian people amid a …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Imagine leaving all the Mansions, Resorts, Malls, High living in Gaza behind, for those who cannot afford to leave.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

On January 9. Palestinian prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh went on TV tocelebrate "Martyrs Day."

He specifically mentioned three "martyrs" executed by the British in 1930: Muhammad Jamjum, Atta Al-Zir, and Fuad Hijazi.

They were sentenced for their roles in the anti-Jewish pogroms of 1929 in Safed and Hebron.  133 Jews were killed throughout the land, with most of the murdered in Hebron, Jerusalem and Safed.

Originally, 25 Arabs were sentenced to death for murder. Most of those sentences were commuted. Only three remained to be executed. (Palestine Bulletin, June 1, 1930)





This article published on June 18, 1930 - the day after the executions - shows that the depraved Palestinian Arabs had declared the 17th to be "Martyrs Day," proving that their bloodlust was there decades before Israel.

This proclamation sounds identical to similar declarations that happen today in Palestinian Arab areas.




But who were these heroes?

They were the ones who were guilty of multiple murders, who killed women and children, who attacked Jews - not Zionists - in communities that have been there for centuries.

And their main motive wasn't "Palestine." It was to steal loot from the Jews.





Two of them confessed to murdering 8 Jews between them before execution.





These disgusting pieces of trash are Palestinian heroes today. These murderers are people to be admired. These people who massacred innocent Jews, including women and children, are people that Palestinians want to emulate. 

I didn't say it. The prime minister of the Palestinian Authority did. 

(watch video online)









						Palestinian heroes: Mass murderers and two bit robbers
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Farah Chamma - The Poetryhood Podcast / Ep.3​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Palestinian PM Praises “Martyrs” of 1929 riots.
We'll Defeat Israel Like We Defeated Other Invaders​




The Pally “PM”, whatever that is, was going off about “martyrs” and something about defeating other invaders.

I thought that was odd, well not really. An invented people with an invented national identity have invented a history that includes invented “invaders” they claim were defeated, apparently by some invented Pallys.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Palestinian PM Praises “Martyrs” of 1929 riots.
> We'll Defeat Israel Like We Defeated Other Invaders​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pally “PM”, whatever that is, was going off about “martyrs” and something about defeating other invaders.
> 
> I thought that was odd, well not really. An invented people with an invented national identity have invented a history that includes invented “invaders” they claim were defeated, apparently by some invented Pallys.



They are very good at defeating invaders.
Here's Palestine after they defeated the Ottoman Empire.






Here's Palestine after they defeated the British.





Here's Palestine after they defeated the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians.





Finally, here is Palestine after they defeated the Israelis.


----------



## Hollie

In the formulation of the politico-religious ideology he invented, Muhammad co-opted much of Christianity and Judaism. The Pallys have decided to co-opt Jesus as a Pally “martyr”.​​







						Palestinians reinvent Jesus in their own image - as a terrorist | PMW Analysis
					

After turning Jesus into a Palestinian, the PA wanted to honor him the only way they know how: They declared him fighter (i.e., a terrorist) and an Islamic Martyr - the people who Palestinians see as the “most honorable”




					palwatch.org
				



Palestinians reinvent Jesus in their own image - as a terrorist​Itamar Marcus  | Jan 14, 2022




*After turning Jesus into a Palestinian, the PA wanted to honor him the only way they know how: They declared him fighter (i.e., a terrorist) and an Islamic Martyr - the people who Palestinians see as the “most honorable”*
​


----------



## Hollie

That little slice of Hell known as the Islamic terrorist enclaves.


----------



## Hollie

I thought the idea of dolphins hunting down Hamas "naval commandos", knuckleheads in rowboats, pretty funny. 
​​​Hamas Video: Israel Uses Dolphins to Hunt Down and Kill Our Naval Commandos​


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> I thought the idea of dolphins hunting down Hamas "naval commandos", knuckleheads in rowboats, pretty funny.
> ​​​Hamas Video: Israel Uses Dolphins to Hunt Down and Kill Our Naval Commandos​



Are they circumcised?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Has Fascism Reached The US? w/ Palestinian Comedian Jennifer Jajeh​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Send in the clowns... the Pallyweird clown show.











						PA Intifada style libel: Israeli soldiers demonized as murdering kids in cold blood | PMW Analysis
					

Recently official PA TV broadcast a scene from the film “Checkpoint” by Palestinian director Omar Rammal




					palwatch.org
				




Palestinian Media Watch

PA Intifada style libel: Israeli soldiers demonized as murdering kids in cold blood
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 17, 2022
A recent broadcast on official PA TV brought back memories of video libels the PA aired during the PA terror campaign – the second Intifada – from 2000-2005. Then the PA was actively promoting terror, and depicting Israelis as cruel murderers was part of their incitement program.

Recently official PA TV broadcast a scene from the film “Checkpoint” by Palestinian director Omar Rammal, which PA TV described as being about “the suffering of the Palestinians due to the occupation’s checkpoints.” The excerpt shown demonizes Israeli soldiers as heartless killers who murder for no reason. A Palestinian family wants to go through an Israeli checkpoint to “take the kids to the amusement park,” but the Israeli commander tells them the road is closed. While they talk, another soldier is seen aiming his rifle at two children with their backs turned. Gun shots are heard, and the next scene shows one child shot and lying on the ground – murdered in cold blood.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Free Khalida Jarrar: A Discussion with Yafa Jarrar​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

While the article identifies islamic terrorist attacks occurring in the West Bank as being orchestrated in Gaza, it's much more likely that the attacks were orchestrated in Tehran. Hamas has been a major suck up to the Shia Mullocrats and their welfare money. 











						West Bank terror is a reminder of Gaza’s ‘deceptive calm’
					

Col. (res.) David Hacham tells JNS that Israel “must not agree to the double game” in which Hamas continually seeks to orchestrate terrorism beyond the Strip and into the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem.




					www.jns.org
				




December 21, 2021 / JNS) After arresting four terror suspects on suspicion of carrying out the deadly attack near Homesh, in which Israeli civilian Yehuda Dimentman, 25, was murdered, Israel Defense Forces spokesman Ran Kochav said on Sunday that the attack was likely orchestrated from the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Hollie

I think there’s still a basic mistake being made to label adherents to a brutish, totalitarian politico-religious ideology as “radical”. War, rapine and conquest defines so much of Islamist ideology. The Hamas Charter dutifully follows that ideology.










						Improving Gaza's economy will not de-radicalize Hamas
					

Opinion: Israel's attempt to boost quality of life in impoverished enclave won't guarantee Gazans would stand against Jihadi principles, since this model has already failed many times in Middle East in decades past




					www.ynetnews.com
				



Published: 01.02.22, 23:29
The growing Hamas effort to promote terrorism in the West Bank, the shooting incident along the Gaza Strip border last week, and the rocket launch at Tel Aviv over the weekend, allegedly triggered by lightning, should be a warning for the Israeli policymakers not to be lulled into a false sense of security


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Free Khalida Jarrar: A Discussion with Yafa Jarrar​


She is free as a bird









						Palestinian MP Jarrar released from Israeli prison
					

Jarrar, a left-wing figure and member of the now-defunct PLC, released by Israeli authorities on Sunday.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> She is free as a bird
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MP Jarrar released from Israeli prison
> 
> 
> Jarrar, a left-wing figure and member of the now-defunct PLC, released by Israeli authorities on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


For how long? She has been arrested several times.



> Jarrar has long been a target of the Israeli occupation due to her outspoken nature and political activism.
> 
> She has spent much of the last six years in and out of Israeli prisons, including between July 2017 and February 2019 in administrative detention, an Israeli policy that allows the imprisonment of Palestinians indefinitely, on “secret information,” without presenting them with formal charges or allowing them to stand trial.
> 
> In 2015, she was sentenced to 15 months over the same charge – “membership in an illegal organization”.
> 
> Israel outlaws more than 400 organizations, including all Palestinian political parties – including the ruling Fatah party and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) – as “terrorist groups”.



Why Is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> For how long? She has been arrested several times.
> 
> 
> 
> Why Is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?​


Free Palestinians from their toxic idea that Israel and the rest of the Mandate for Palestine belongs to Muslims, and only Muslims.

Then......all like her will be free from the garbage they have learned about their superiority and need to own the whole planet.

Help them work on that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dialogue with Rula Jebreal. About oppressors, gender equality, new book and happiness.​


----------



## Hollie

Just one more in the long line of Islamic terrorist misfits who have stolen from the international welfare system to fund their personal bank accounts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_In an article in the daily _Al-Ayyam_, Ashraf Al-'Ajrami, a former minister of prisoners affairs in the Palestinian Authority (PA), warned that the West Bank is in complete chaos, manifested in violent clan and tribal conflicts that are threatening public security. This situation, he said, results from the failure of all the Palestinian institutions – the education system, the executive and judicial bodies, the political parties and even civil society organizations – which have not managed to build a national civil infrastructure divorced from clan and tribal loyalties. 

Al-'Ajrami added that the public confidence in the PA institutions is eroding, and that the PA is losing its ability to govern, because the public relies more and more on local and tribal frameworks to protect it and handle its affairs. He stated that the discourse of resistance, which glorifies weapons, only intensifies the phenomenon of citizens taking the law into their own hands and using their weapons to settle personal and local scores. If Palestinian society slides into complete anarchy, he warned, international elements will stop supporting the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, out of fear that it will turn into a failed and corrupt country. He urged the  Palestinians to embrace values of proper government and the rule of law and thus restore their image as "a civilized and educated nation that can play an active role in the culture of the world."

It should be noted that the weakness of the rule of law in the PA is an issue often discussed in the Palestinian media, with many writers claiming that it is a symptom of deeper problems in Palestinian society that can threaten the future of the Palestinian national cause. *[1]*_

(full article online)









						Former Palestinian Minister: The West Bank Is In Chaos; Palestinian Authority Has Failed To Build Properly Governed Lawful State
					






					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

enior executives include Intisar Abu Amara, head of Abbas’ bureau, senior Fatah and PLO officials and former PA officials, including Tayeb ‘Abd al-Rahim, who was the head of the presidency, Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, the Mufti of Jerusalem, and Ahmad Atzaaf, the head of the radio and television authority.

However, despite the many investments, the project failed to launch, even though a cornerstone was laid and a festive ceremony was held to unveil the project.

Human rights groups and social activists claim that the funds have disappeared and found their way into the pockets of PA officials. Social networks are also on fire and some are demanding the establishment of a commission of inquiry.

One Fatah source in Ramallah said in a phone call with TPS that “all the efforts of the Israeli government to strengthen the Palestinian Authority will not stand the test of reality as long as the corruption cases in the PA keep on coming one after the another.”

Just this week, TPS reported that PA law enforcement officials have recently begun investigating corruption cases involving Walid Assaf, who until recently was head of the Palestinian National Committee for Combating Settlements and served as a minister. Assaf served in his position for a number of years and a month ago he was surprisingly replaced by Mu’id Shaaban.

(full article online)









						Graft from Cancer Treatment Center: The Latest Corruption Case to Rock the PA
					

The street in the Palestinian Authority is again in turmoil following the revelation of another corruption case, one of many cases, involving senior PA officials.In 2018, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> For how long? She has been arrested several times.



Didn’t happen without a YouTube video.


----------



## Hollie

After decades of international welfare money being stolen for personal gain by the Pally Islamic terrorists and portions being used for the Islamic gee-had, it’s inconceivable why the international community stills throw money at the Pally welfare enclaves. 











						Study accuses EU of failing to push PA on terror stipends, incitement
					

B'nai Brith report says Brussels should place conditions on aid to Palestinians after years of ignoring hate speech in textbooks and payouts to assailants and families




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





The European Union has not done enough to ensure that its funding to the Palestinian Authority does not support incitement to violence and human rights violations, a study published on Tuesday argued.

“Despite existing anti-terrorism regulations, the EU has not addressed funding by the Palestinian Authority to families of convicted terrorists as well as the persistent issue of incitement to hatred and widespread antisemitism in Palestinian textbooks,” wrote researchers Tommaso Virgili and Paul Stott, who previously authored a report on hidden Muslim Brotherhood networks in Europe.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian media quote Israel's Kan network saying that an Israeli bus driver was injured on Tuesday evening when a Molotov cocktail was thrown at her near the village of Al-Tur in Jerusalem.

There are an average of three such Molotov cocktail attacks every day in Israel, but since most of them do not result in serious injury, no one seems to care. 

Even though they are firebombs.

According to the Shin Bet, there were 124 firebombs in October, 94 in November and 107 in December.

Also in December were 11 pipe bombs, 6 cases of small arms fire, 2 car rammings and 5 stabbings.

Palestinians try to kill Jews every single day. Just because Israel has gotten better at minimizing casualties doesn't mean that the terrorists aren't still trying.










						It never makes the news,. but Arabs throw about 100 firebombs at Jews every month
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

This morning, Israel demolished two homes in Sheikh Jarrah that had been illegally built in the 1990s - to build a special needs school and kindergarten for Arab residents.

People started publishing a photo from the scene, showing a forlorn schoolbag and books.





A photo was found of Arab Jerusalem activist Muhammad Abu al-Hames - with the props.

You can see him with the schoolbag,a bulletin board and bags of other materials.





Here's a closeup of the bulletin board in the debris that you can see matches what al-Hames has in pristine, clean condition.





(h/t Abu Ali Express)

UPDATE: More of the bulletin board. Note how it was cleaner with al-Hames then when it was in the rubble, so he didn't "save" it.















						Pallywood in Sheikh Jarrah (update)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

At some point, the explicit calls for incitement and killing as practiced by the islamic terrorist syndicates must have a downside. 











						Senior West Bank Hamas official to be charged with incitement, supporting terror
					

Hamas co-founder Hassan Yousef has spent years in and out of Israeli jail, mostly under administrative detention; indictment comes as tensions rise between Israel, Hamas




					www.google.com
				




Hamas co-founder Hassan Yousef will be charged in the coming days in an Israeli military court for incitement to terror and supporting a terror group, Israel Police said in a statement on Sunday.

Yousef, a senior figure in Hamas’s West Bank division, is seen as a relative moderate in the terror group’s apparatus. Since helping found the Hamas terror movement in the 1980s, Yousef has been arrested numerous times and spent years in Israeli prisons, much of it in administrative detention.


----------



## Hollie

Golly. Maybe we'll return to those moments in time when the two angry islamic terrorist franchises were slamming away at each other with kidnapping, torture and murder. 










						Mounting tension between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority because of Hamas' efforts to strengthen its status among the Palestinians - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

The growing increase of Hamas' popularity in Palestinian society, at the expense of Fatah, was boosted when Mahmoud Abbas' delayed, and in effect canceled, the Palestinian Authority (PA) parliamentary and presidential elections. It increased further after Operation Guardian of the Walls (May...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




Encouragement for terrorist attacks: Senior Hamas figures and the Hamas-affiliated media repeatedly call on the Palestinians in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem to carry out terrorist attacks. Hamas supporters call for attacks in the name of Muhammed Deif, the commander of Hamas’ military-terrorist wing and regarded as a symbol of the violent struggle against Israel. Moreover, many of the attacks recently carried out in Judea and Samaria, and especially east Jerusalem, were praised, as were the attackers. In some of the attacks the terrorist was specifically referred to as a Hamas operative, but in no case did Hamas issue an official claim of responsibility for an attack.


----------



## Hollie

Pally Islamic terrorism continues apace because they are showered with money as a means of financing. Cutting off funding for terrorists is an important step (obviously), to limiting the damage done by islamic terrorists.










						Watchdog Sues Biden Admin Over Funding for Palestinian Government
					

A watchdog group is suing the Biden administration for refusing to turn over internal documents that could show it violated the Taylor Force Act, a bipartisan law that bans sending money to the Palestinian government until it stops using aid money to pay terrorists.




					freebeacon.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Saluting Two Arab Palestinian Martyrs
					

I found myself  directed  to Walter Laqueur's A History of Zionism , p 267, where he mentions two of the many assassinations of Arabs who op...




					myrightword.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Oh, such melodrama. 

I suppose the Pallys will equip their pre-teens with korans and knives and point them toward their demise.













						“Prepare the rifles… We’ll declare war… This is a threat” - Fatah threatens terror if terrorist prisoner dies of cancer | PMW Analysis
					

Nasser Abu Hmeid is Palestinian terrorist prisoner serving 7 life sentences for his part in the murder of 7 Israelis during the PA’s 5-year terror campaign, the second Intifada




					palwatch.org
				




“Prepare the rifles… We’ll declare war… This is a threat” - Fatah threatens terror if terrorist prisoner dies of cancer​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jan 20, 2022





Nasser Abu Hmeid is Palestinian terrorist prisoner serving 7 life sentences for his part in the murder of 7 Israelis during the PA’s 5-year terror campaign, the second Intifada. He was a commander of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (Fatah's military wing).

Nasser Abu Hmeid is now sick with lung cancer and although he is being treated in an Israeli hospital, the PA and Fatah are demanding that Israel grant him an early release from prison.
If Israel doesn’t give in, Fatah is threatening Israel with “war” and terror. Fatah uploaded the following “warning” and “threat” given in the name of Fatah’s military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades – which is an internationally designated terror organization. Fatah promises to “burn the world” and “redeem” Nasser Abu Hmeid “with their blood” if he dies. It “declares war” and calls on Palestinians to “prepare the rifles”:


----------



## Hollie

Life is good when the international community showers you with welfare money


----------



## Hollie

It's on!

Hamas - men in rowboats vs. Dolphins.












						'Killer Dolphins?' Hamas Claims Israel Used A Dolphin Equipped With Combat Gear To Chase Its Commandos
					

The claim was made by Al-Qassam Nrigades naval commandos spokesperson in a video.




					www.ibtimes.com
				




'Killer Dolphins?' Hamas Claims Israel Used A Dolphin Equipped With Combat Gear To Chase Its Commandos​




What does it say about your 'commandos' when they're chased away by Flipper?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: 
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

You should get extra points for the comic relief.


Hollie said:


> It's on!
> 
> Hamas - men in rowboats vs. Dolphins.
> 
> What does it say about your 'commandos' when they're chased away by Flipper?


*(COMMENT)*

That is just too funny.

Flipper always seemed to save the day!






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

The various Pally Islamic terrorist franchises were taken to task by Arab nations for being supporters of Iran and the Houthi militia. 

Those suitcases full of cash from Qatar may be in jeopardy if the Pals continue their Shia ways.  












						Gulf Arabs slam Palestinian terror groups for ‘supporting’ Houthi attack
					

Tensions between the Palestinians and the Gulf countries escalated after the signing of the Abraham Accords.




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) condemned over the weekend the Saudi-led coalition airstrikes in Yemen, drawing sharp criticism from Arabs in the Gulf.


Several writers and political analysts from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain responded by launching a scathing attack on the Palestinian groups in particular and the Palestinians in general for allegedly supporting the Iranian-backed Houthi militia in Yemen, which has launched drone and missile attacks on Saudi Arabia and the UAE.


----------



## Hollie

''Don't fund terrorist fronts''

Seems simple enough. Words and actions need to be coupled in order to squash Islamic terrorism. 












						Follow the Netherlands's example: Don’t fund terrorist fronts
					

The bomb that ended Israeli teenager Rina Shnerb’s life in August 2019 also ended Dutch support for the nongovernmental organization that employed her killers. It just took about two years to happen.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




Follow the Netherlands's example: Don’t fund terrorist fronts​by David May
 | January 22, 2022


The bomb that ended Israeli teenager Rina Shnerb’s life in August 2019 also ended Dutch support for the nongovernmental organization that employed her killers. It just took about two years to happen.

Last Wednesday, the Dutch Cabinet upheld its decision to cut funding to the Union of Agricultural Work Committees, a Palestinian nonprofit group whose stated goal is to help local farmers. Faced with incontrovertible evidence, the Dutch couldn’t deny that the UAWC simply had too many employees who moonlight for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine or vice versa.


----------



## Hollie

Among the many disasters of the Biden politburo is the projected weakness and ineptitude in dealing with the Pal terrorists. From looking to throw taxpayer money at the Pal terrorists via ''aid'' to effectively ignoring the Taylor Force Act, Biden has largely emboldened the Pal suicide cults. 










						Joe Biden’s Hamas Problem Won’t Go Away
					

Conducting a remarkable pirouette in American foreign policy, President Joe Biden came into office and completely reversed the previous Administration’s Middle East policy. Donald Trump had sidelined the confrontation between Israel and the Palestinians, prioritizing above all the U.S.-Israeli...




					www.heritage.org
				




Conducting a remarkable pirouette in American foreign policy, President Joe Biden came into office and completely reversed the previous Administration’s Middle East policy.

Donald Trump had sidelined the confrontation between Israel and the Palestinians, prioritizing above all the U.S.-Israeli strategic partnership. He withdrew from the Iran Deal and slapped Tehran with a maximum pressure strategy that took the regime to near bankruptcy, while prompting an unprecedented normalization of Israeli-Arab relations.


----------



## Hollie

An invented people with an invented national identity would seemingly invent a ''blockade''. 










						The lie of the “Gaza blockade” | PMW Analysis
					

The UN, the Palestinian Authority and others are apparently devoted disciples of Mark Twain, who reputedly once quipped: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”




					palwatch.org
				




The lie of the “Gaza blockade”​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jan 23, 2022
The UN, the Palestinian Authority and others are apparently devoted disciples of Mark Twain, who reputedly once quipped: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”

In a literally unending list of publications, the United Nations insists on referring to the ostensible Israeli “blockade on Gaza.” Relying on these UN statements, others then further embellish the fallacy by claiming “Gaza is the biggest prison in the world.” Both descriptions are used as a means to attack Israel and depict the Gazans as trapped victims of Israeli policies.

The UN rhetoric is then mimicked by the Palestinian Authority leadership. For example, when addressing the Ad-Hoc Liaison Committee to ask the international community for donations, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh spoke about the need to end the “harsh siege on Gaza.” 






Oh, dear. To be so besieged.









						Why are Israeli food products so popular in Gaza?
					

According to the Gaza Economy Ministry, Israeli products account for 65% of all items imported into Gaza.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian Mullocrats must have ordered their minions in Gaza to earn their welfare money by taking to the streets and chanting the familiar ''Great Satan'' slogan. 

No indication that the ''Great Satan'' has anything to do with Houthis in Yemen but then, it's obligatory for the Mullocrats to launch into the fist-pumping ''Death to Amrica'' chant. 



Chants of “Death to the Saud Clan!” and “America Is the Great Satan!” During Gaza Rally in Support of the Houthis in Yemen​








						Chants Of 'Death To The Saud Clan!' And 'America Is The Great Satan!' During Gaza Rally In Support Of Houthis In Yemen
					

On January 22, 2022, videos were uploaded to several YouTube channels of demonstrations in Gaza in support of the Houthi...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  The Value and Credibility of the UN
 ※→. Hollie, et al,

Each Representative to the UN should assist in the Maintenance and Integrity of the organization - such that the global population holds a positive impression of competence in the body and its subordinate organizations.  This is not happening.



Hollie said:


> WATCH how Israel’s Ambassador to the UN


*(COMMENT)*

Whether it is the Special Rapporteur of the Commission on Human Rights, the Director of Operations for the United Nations Reliefs and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA), or the individual ambassadors to the UN proper, the global community is losing faith in the honesty and integrity of the organization as a whole.   

Even the International Criminal Court (ICC) has unveiled its character by acting as a _de facto_ legal counsel for the organization that has entities like HAMAS (*the Islamic Resistance Movement*) (or the Palestinian Islamic Jihad) as a terrorist organization.  The UN project the image that the Israelis are completely in the wrong.  On the one hand, the UN advocates for peaceful solutions to disputes, while on the other hand defends the armed struggle by any means taken up by the terrorists.

The Global Community is at a crossroads for organizational policy.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Perhaps they should get their dumb ass out of occupied territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> On the one hand, the UN advocates for peaceful solutions to disputes, while on the other hand defends the armed struggle by any means taken up by the terrorists.


One one hand Israel gives the UN the finger at any peaceful solution.

On the other hand, armed struggle against oppression is legal.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The UN, the Palestinian Authority and others are apparently devoted disciples of Mark Twain, who reputedly once quipped: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”

In a literally unending list of publications, the United Nations insists on referring to the ostensible Israeli “blockade on Gaza.” Relying on these UN statements, others then further embellish the fallacy by claiming “Gaza is the biggest prison in the world.” Both descriptions are used as a means to attack Israel and depict the Gazans as trapped victims of Israeli policies.

The UN rhetoric is then mimicked by the Palestinian Authority leadership. For example, when addressing the Ad-Hoc Liaison Committee to ask the international community for donations, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh spoke about the need to end the “harsh siege on Gaza.” 

What makes Twain’s comment so relevant is the fact that statistics published by none other than the UN itself disprove their own claim.

-------
The movement of people to and from Gaza via the Rafah and Erez crossings is separate from the movement of goods and fuels which enter and exit Gaza from Egypt through the Rafah and Salah Al-Din crossings and to and from Israel via the Kerem Shalom crossing.

Critics may argue that while there are hundreds of thousands of entries and exits to and from Gaza, the number of people moving is far less than the number of people requesting permits and thus Israel’s policies still constitute a “blockade on Gaza”.

Criticism of this nature is as empty as the claim itself.

Firstly, Israel is not responsible for the policies of Egypt.

Secondly, there is no legal or moral requirement that Israel be singled out as the only country in the world that is required to have open borders. Israel, similar to every other country in the world, is entitled to decide who, how many, when, and under what conditions, foreigners are allowed to enter its territory. Gaza is governed by an internationally designated homicidal terrorist organization that as recently as May 2021 fired 4,500 rockets at Israel, indiscriminately targeting Israel’s civilian population. Declaring an Israeli “blockade of Gaza” simply because Israel does not agree that an unlimited amount of Gazans - and among them numerous possible terrorists who enter with the purpose of harming Israel - be allowed in to Israel is simply ludicrous.    

Others may also criticize the Israeli maritime blockade of Gaza. These critics can be answered by referring them to the pertinent comments of the Report of the UN Secretary-General’s Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident, headed by Sir Geoffrey Palmer, which, before finding that “Israel’s naval blockade was legal” noted:

-----
Since the UN itself has certified the legality of the naval blockade of Gaza, and since it appears to have had little impact on the movement into and from Gaza, surely the UN cannot hold that Israel alone is prevented from using legitimate legal tools that all other countries in the world can use.  

Accordingly, since figures published by the UN itself negate the claim of the “blockade on Gaza”, whether it be from the Israeli or the Egyptian side, the question must be asked: Why does the UN perpetuate the lie?

The following are the graphs that appear on the website of OCHAoPt:

(full article online)









						The lie of the “Gaza blockade” | PMW Analysis
					

The UN, the Palestinian Authority and others are apparently devoted disciples of Mark Twain, who reputedly once quipped: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Labor Minister Nasri Abu Jaish announced a program to try to fund jobs for Palestinian women, as he announced the news that 6,250 women work in Jewish settlements.

About 20,000 Palestinians altogether work in the settlements, out of roughly 140,000 who work for Israelis altogether. This contributes a significant proportion of the Palestinian GDP, since 18.6% of all West Bank workers are working for Israelis. 

In the Palestinian labor market altogether, only about 22% of workers are women, which means that proportionately, the hated settlements provide more opportunity for women than the local market.

On average, Israelis pay Palestinians more than double the salaries they receive for local jobs. The Q4 2020 Labour Force Survey for Palestinians shows that the average daily wage for those working in Israel and in settlements was 260.8 shekels compared to 123.5 shekels in the West Bank and 65.6 shekels in Gaza.





The Palestinian Labor ministry is alarmed at so many women working for "settlers" so they announced yet another program to encourage the women to work locally. They started a program worth 10 million shekels to provide jobs for women in the Jordan Valley. 

Every previous time that they tried to discourage Palestinians from working for Israelis they have failed, badly. There is no reason to think this initiative will do any better - the average Palestinian is not going to take a 53% pay cut because the PA wants them to be more patriotic.









						Over six thousand Palestinian women work in Jewish settlements
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Secondly, there is no legal or moral requirement that Israel be singled out as the only country in the world that is required to have open borders. Israel, similar to every other country in the world, is entitled to decide who, how many, when, and under what conditions, foreigners are allowed to enter its territory.


False premise. (Big lie)

The sea coast is not an Israeli border. If there was no siege, people and goods could come and go by boat. People could come and go by air but Israel bombed the airport.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Perhaps they should get their dumb ass out of occupied territory.


What sovereign Pally land is occupied?

The alway unanswered question.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> If there was no siege, people and goods could come and go by boat.



Elections have consequences, eh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> False premise. (Big lie)
> 
> The sea coast is not an Israeli border. If there was no siege, people and goods could come and go by boat. People could come and go by air but Israel bombed the airport.


False premise. What siege?



			https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/west-bank-and-gaza-market-overview#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20Palestinian%20imports%20from,location%20of%20their%20trading%20partners.
		


The Palestinian market relies heavily on Israel as a trading partner. In 2020, Palestinian imports from Israel were $2.77 billion and exports were $955 million. Business people in the West Bank are eager to diversify the number and location of their trading partners.


There is plenty to of welfare money to be used by the Pals for airports, plumbing, paved roads, etc. You choose to spend the money making splodeydopes of your children and making islamic terrorists incredibly rich.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What sovereign Pally land is occupied?
> 
> The alway unanswered question.


All of it.

Refute with link.

Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There is plenty to of welfare money to be used by the Pals for airports, plumbing, paved roads, etc.


All bombed by Israel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> All of it.
> 
> Refute with link.
> 
> Of course not.



Palestine never owned any land to be occupied.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Elections have consequences, eh?


You have to be a doofus to win elections.

Look at the US, Canada, UK, Israel...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Palestine never owned any land to be occupied.


Link?

Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Visiting Gaza Strip as a Palestinian | DW Documentary​


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> You have to be a doofus to win elections.
> 
> Look at the US, Canada, UK, Israel...



Look at Hamas.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not.



Went from the Ottoman Empire to Great Britain to Israel and Jordan to Israel.

Not a Palestine in sight.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Went from the Ottoman Empire to Great Britain to Israel and Jordan to Israel.
> 
> Not a Palestine in sight.


No links?

Of course not.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> No links?
> 
> Of course not.



You need a link to "there was no country of Palestine controlled by Palestinians"?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Credibility of the Claim
※→. P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, I refute your claim.  I do not think you understand the issue of what each State enjoys when it has and exercises the rights inherent in full sovereignty; → any more than you can apply these political concepts to territorial integrity and political independence.

I think you need to listen to  Toddsterpatriot  and Hollie's  sound contributions.



P F Tinmore said:


> All of it.
> 
> Refute with link.
> 
> Of course not.


*(COMMENT)*

Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term:

◈   From the perspective of internal applications, sovereignty is applied with the identity of the Supreme Authority within a State.  IF "B" can say that country "A" is under the control over its territory "A" such that no other entity except "B". may exercise governmental authority and power, THEN you can say "B" maintains sovereignty over country "A."​​◈   From the external perspective,  Political sovereignty is naturally accompanying the ability to stand off external political pressure on issues of international importance; making its own decisions.​
I know that you like to confuse this issue with the issue of individual sovereignty on the control of personal issues.

I cannot tell if the Arab Palestinians, in the last millennium, had any national or political sovereignty over any territory.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You need a link to "there was no country of Palestine controlled by Palestinians"?


Don't say it if you can't prove it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ From the perspective of internal applications, sovereignty is applied with the identity of the Supreme Authority within a State. IF "B" can say that country "A" is under the control over its territory "A" such that no other entity except "B". may exercise governmental authority and power, THEN you can say "B" maintains sovereignty over country "A."


Occupations do no acquire sovereignty.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Don't say it if you can't prove it.



There was no country of Palestine controlled by Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> There was no country of Palestine controlled by Palestinians.


Still no link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Still no link?



As soon as you post your link about the mythic Palestine run by Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> As soon as you post your link about the mythic Palestine run by Palestinians.


You are ducking the question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



''... except for Israel, Lebanon and anywhere else our Iranian Mullocrats tell us to interfere.''


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist Pals are getting some heat from welfare donors about their calls to incitement so their response, naturally, is to attack those reporting that incitement. 












						PA accuses PMW of incitement for exposing truth about its education! | PMW Analysis
					

PA attacks PMW: PMW report on Fatah’s youth magazine “incites against the Fatah Movement, the PA, and the Waed magazine that is published by Fatah”




					palwatch.org
				




*PA attacks PMW: PMW report on Fatah’s youth magazine “incites against the Fatah Movement, the PA, and the Waed magazine that is published by Fatah”*​
*PA attacks PMW for “inciting” because PMW exposed the content of PA/Fatah education:*​
*“The material we [PMW] found in the Waed magazine was much worse than what we found in the Palestinian schoolbooks… We see Fatah’s worldview in full… all of Israel needs to disappear, and a Palestinian state needs to be established in its place; and that there can be no compromise.”*​
*“The Israeli cities and the entire territory of Israel is described as part of occupied Palestine or ‘stolen Palestine.’”*​
*“Fatah presents itself as the one leading the armed and ongoing Palestinian struggle, which will reach its end only when Israel is erased.”*​
*[WAFA, official PA news agency,
citing PMW findings, claiming this is incitement*​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations do no acquire sovereignty.



Which explains why the Pals have never held sovereignty over the territory they occupy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> You are ducking the question.



And you're denying reality (and history).


----------



## Sixties Fan

*PA attacks PMW: PMW report on Fatah’s youth magazine “incites against the Fatah Movement, the PA, and the Waed magazine that is published by Fatah” *​*PA attacks PMW for “inciting” because PMW exposed the content of PA/Fatah education:*​
*“The material we [PMW] found in the Waedmagazine was much worse than what we found in the Palestinian schoolbooks… We see Fatah’s worldview in full… all of Israel needs to disappear, and a Palestinian state needs to be established in its place; and that there can be no compromise.”*​
*“The Israeli cities and the entire territory of Israel is described as part of occupied Palestine or ‘stolen Palestine.’” *​
*“Fatah presents itself as the one leading the armed and ongoing Palestinian struggle, which will reach its end only when Israel is erased.” *​
*[WAFA, official PA news agency,
citing PMW findings, claiming this is incitement*​
(full article online)









						PA accuses PMW of incitement for exposing truth about its education! | PMW Analysis
					

PA attacks PMW: PMW report on Fatah’s youth magazine “incites against the Fatah Movement, the PA, and the Waed magazine that is published by Fatah”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Authority religious leaders have repeatedly taught that Muslims are commanded by Islam to fight against - and even allowed to kill - people who they say have “stolen their land.” Moreover, the entire PA leadership spreads the lie that all of Israel exists on “stolen” land. It is thus not surprising that when Muntasir Shalabi, who murdered 19-year-old Yehuda Gueta last year, was asked by investigators why he killed a random Israeli, he responded that every Israeli is a legitimate target according to “the religion” – because Israel “took houses in Ashdod and Haifa,” Israeli coastal cities:



> *Israeli investigator:* “How does a person like you reach the point of committing an attack?”
> *Shalabi: *“According to the religion [of Islam] it is *permitted for me to attack and even to kill someone who took my lands*.”
> *Israeli investigator: *“To the best of my knowledge, you live in a large villa in the village of Turmus Ayya.”
> *Shalabi: *“I mean that you took houses in Ashdod and Haifa (i.e., Israeli cities).”
> [Kan 11, Israeli TV, Jan. 6, 2022]


The murderer’s answer directly follows the teachings of the two most important PA religious leaders Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Mahmoud Abbas' advisor on Islam and Supreme Shari’ah Judge, and Muhammad Hussein, the PA-appointed Grand Mufti. It is these two religious figures who disseminate the “moderate” PA interpretation of Islam. 

(full article online)









						Terrorist: Islam supports my killing Israeli teen; Islam permits killing every ‎Israeli ‎ | PMW Analysis
					

Terrorist murderer’s justification for murdering Israelis in the name of Islam, echoes teachings of the top two PA religious leaders




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *PA attacks PMW: PMW report on Fatah’s youth magazine “incites against the Fatah Movement, the PA, and the Waed magazine that is published by Fatah” *​*PA attacks PMW for “inciting” because PMW exposed the content of PA/Fatah education:*​
> *“The material we [PMW] found in the Waedmagazine was much worse than what we found in the Palestinian schoolbooks… We see Fatah’s worldview in full… all of Israel needs to disappear, and a Palestinian state needs to be established in its place; and that there can be no compromise.”*​
> *“The Israeli cities and the entire territory of Israel is described as part of occupied Palestine or ‘stolen Palestine.’” *​
> *“Fatah presents itself as the one leading the armed and ongoing Palestinian struggle, which will reach its end only when Israel is erased.” *​
> *[WAFA, official PA news agency,*​*citing PMW findings, claiming this is incitement*​
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA accuses PMW of incitement for exposing truth about its education! | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA attacks PMW: PMW report on Fatah’s youth magazine “incites against the Fatah Movement, the PA, and the Waed magazine that is published by Fatah”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org





Sixties Fan said:


> *“The Israeli cities and the entire territory of Israel is described as part of occupied Palestine or ‘stolen Palestine.’” *


So, how *did *Israel get that territory?

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> So, how *did *Israel get that territory?
> 
> Link?


(How did 7th century Arab invaders change their name to Palestinians?)

The Arabs adopt the Greek name from the Romans


Under the Romans, Philistia remained divided into subservient polities, one of which was Judea. The Jews did not sit easy under Roman rule. After finally subduing the Jewish rebels once and for all in 135 CE following the Bar Kochba Revolt, Roman Emperor Hadrian restructured the region, uniting the provinces of Philistia and the Roman provinces in Syria, creating a single massive province called “Syria Palaestina.” Thus the unofficial Greek appellation turned into the official Roman one.

This Greek-cum-Latin name for the region was later adopted by the Arabs who conquered the area in the 7th century, and thus the Arabic name for the region, Falestin, was born. In Europe, the Latin name Palaestina slowly morphed into the different names for the region in  the Romance tongues that arose from Latin, such as French and Spanish. Other non-Romance languages such as German and English got their names for the region from Latin or the Romance languages. That is how the English word Palestine came about.


At the end of World War I, the territory of the Ottoman Empire was divided between the French and the British, in accordance with the Sykes–Picot Agreement of 1916. When the British gained control of the region, at the close of World War I they adopted the name “Palestine” and its inhabitants Jewish, Muslim or otherwise were known as Palestinians. And then, during the 1920s, the nascent Palestinian national movement adopted the appellation "Palestinian" (al-Filasniyyūn) as its own.


In a twist of fate, most of the territory that had been controlled by the Philistines is now part of Israel, except for Gaza, while most of the territory that was the ancient Kingdom of Israel is currently in the West Bank and is, to a great extent, a part of the Palestinian Authority.









						Why are Palestinians called Palestinians?
					

The Palestinians don't see themselves as descendants of the Biblical invaders, but they are named for the Philistines just the same.




					www.haaretz.com
				





(Oh, geeeee!!!!!   Arabs only have been calling themselves Palestinians since the MANDATE for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation of Israel.  
What a coincidence !!!!!
A 20th Century Muslims against Jews miracle !!!!  )


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> (How did 7th century Arab invaders change their name to Palestinians?)
> 
> The Arabs adopt the Greek name from the Romans
> 
> 
> Under the Romans, Philistia remained divided into subservient polities, one of which was Judea. The Jews did not sit easy under Roman rule. After finally subduing the Jewish rebels once and for all in 135 CE following the Bar Kochba Revolt, Roman Emperor Hadrian restructured the region, uniting the provinces of Philistia and the Roman provinces in Syria, creating a single massive province called “Syria Palaestina.” Thus the unofficial Greek appellation turned into the official Roman one.
> 
> This Greek-cum-Latin name for the region was later adopted by the Arabs who conquered the area in the 7th century, and thus the Arabic name for the region, Falestin, was born. In Europe, the Latin name Palaestina slowly morphed into the different names for the region in  the Romance tongues that arose from Latin, such as French and Spanish. Other non-Romance languages such as German and English got their names for the region from Latin or the Romance languages. That is how the English word Palestine came about.
> 
> 
> At the end of World War I, the territory of the Ottoman Empire was divided between the French and the British, in accordance with the Sykes–Picot Agreement of 1916. When the British gained control of the region, at the close of World War I they adopted the name “Palestine” and its inhabitants Jewish, Muslim or otherwise were known as Palestinians. And then, during the 1920s, the nascent Palestinian national movement adopted the appellation "Palestinian" (al-Filasniyyūn) as its own.
> 
> 
> In a twist of fate, most of the territory that had been controlled by the Philistines is now part of Israel, except for Gaza, while most of the territory that was the ancient Kingdom of Israel is currently in the West Bank and is, to a great extent, a part of the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are Palestinians called Palestinians?
> 
> 
> The Palestinians don't see themselves as descendants of the Biblical invaders, but they are named for the Philistines just the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Oh, geeeee!!!!!   Arabs only have been calling themselves Palestinians since the MANDATE for Palestine to re create the Jewish Nation of Israel.
> What a coincidence !!!!!
> A 20th Century Muslims against Jews miracle !!!!  )


Deflection city.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Deflection city.


Your precious question has been answered  a Zillion times.

The one question you do not want to get into, I answered.

Israel got its land back legally.
The Arabs got their land illegally.

Why do the Hashemites have 78% of the Jewish homeland?

I am not waiting for you to ever bother to answer that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Your precious question has been answered  a Zillion times.
> 
> The one question you do not want to get into, I answered.
> 
> Israel got its land back legally.
> The Arabs got their land illegally.
> 
> Why do the Hashemites have 78% of the Jewish homeland?
> 
> I am not waiting for you to ever bother to answer that.





Sixties Fan said:


> Israel got its land back legally.
> The Arabs got their land illegally.


Links?


Sixties Fan said:


> Why do the Hashemites have 78% of the Jewish homeland?


I don't know. The Palestinians have nothing to do with Jordan.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Claim
※→. P F Tinmore, et al,

No one (least of all me) claimed that "Occupation" (alone) acquires "Sovereignty."  But occupation does provide the Occupying Force "effective control" over a territory.  And that means that no other sovereign power can claim to be the exclusive authority over that territory.  Exclusive control, meaning no other sovereign power can effectively control the territory; least of all, the Arab Palestinian.



P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations do no acquire sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

The "original sovereignty" of the territory was held by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic until 23 October 1917 when the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). This control by the OETA over the territory transitioned to the Civil Administration by means of the authority by the Allied Powers as agreed upon at the San Remo Conference of April 1920. A Civil Administration (the de facto Government of Palestine) established by the British Government took control in June 1920; implementing the decisions of the San Remo Conference.

Situation:

◈ Between 1920 and 1948, the Civil Administration (the de facto Government of Palestine) established by the British Government maintained exclusive control over the entirety of the territory.​◈ The territory came under the exclusive control of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan when it claimed exclusive control through the direct military action (AKA: Conquest), followed by the intermediate step of an Armistice (1949), and then sovereignty (April 1950) by annexation.​◈ In June 1967, after a military buildup by Arab League Forces along the Armistice Lines, Israel took effective control of the Sovereign Jordanian territory when the Arab Legion retired to defensive positions on the East side of the Jordan River.​◈ On 31 July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom when "King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank (Terra Nullius)." There being no other sovereign power to claim jurisdiction, the Jordanian act left the Israeli Defense Force in exclusive control of all the formerly held Jordanian territory west of the Jordan River.​
The importance of the Jordanian withdrawal from the territory - is that - it delineated in time - the fact that for the previous 900 years, the Arab Palestinians never maintained any type of control over territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine. From the time the Turkish Republic renounced "all rights and title" over the territory, the Arab Palestinians can make no claim that the Israelis had taken possession by force, any territory from the Arab Palestinian people. They have no claim.

In 1994, a Treaty of Peace was established between the two nations, effectively ending the Jordanian involvement in the 1948 war for the independence of Israel. In this treaty, without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, the international boundary between the two nations (while meticulously layout in Article 3 and Annex I) became the Jordan River. It effectively places the West Bank and Jerusalem inside the boundary of Israel.

*(SOVEREIGNTY)*

Except as authorized by the Knesset, Israel has not declared any of the territories formerly under Jordanian control or sovereignty, and currently under the effective control of Israel, has been annexed. This means Israel is not now, nor has it ever been, a foreign force (under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation) placed under its authority any territory formerly under the control of the Arab Palestinians (habitual residents).







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The "original sovereignty" of the territory was held by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic until 23 October 1917 when the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).


OK, but in 1924 the territory, nationality, citizenship, and sovereignty were transferred to the Palestinians.

Occupations do not acquire sovereignty, nor can they annex occupied territory. The territory and the sovereignty still belong to the Palestinians.

Dance around that.


----------



## Hollie

The Israelis are inadvertently incentivising islamic terrorism. 









						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




Go to prison and pick a career: Convicted murderer of 5 supervises university studies of terrorist in Israeli prison
Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Jan 26, 2022


Prison turned career path: “I started imprisonment having 10 [years of education]. When I entered prison I completed [high school] matriculation and many courses. [Then] I went straight to university”
Father proud of terrorist son’s university studies in prison: “Praise Allah, [my son] is currently completing a master’s degree… In prison there are those who have completed a doctorate. It is a school, it is a university”

For imprisoned Palestinian terrorists, their prison sentence has become their path to a career. As Palestinian Media Watch has reported, terrorist prisoners enroll in and study at Palestinian universities while serving time for attacking and even murdering Israelis.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Claim
※→. P F Tinmore, et al,

I am not dancing around anything.



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but in 1924 the territory, nationality, citizenship, and sovereignty were transferred to the Palestinians.
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty, nor can they annex occupied territory. The territory and the sovereignty still belong to the Palestinians.
> 
> Dance around that.


*(COMMENT)*

You make an unsupported statement.  In nearly 100 years, no agency has come to this conclusion. The only portion of that statement that is close (but not properly stated) is that of nationality (Article 30 transfers nothing).  You have no evidence to strengthen this outrageous position.

I  will just have to disagree with your stance.   





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Territorial Claim
> ※→. P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I am not dancing around anything.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You make an unsupported statement.  In nearly 100 years, no agency has come to this conclusion. The only portion of that statement that is close (but not properly stated) is that of nationality (Article 30 transfers nothing).  You have no evidence to strengthen this outrageous position.
> 
> I  will just have to disagree with your stance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> You make an unsupported statement.


Not so. I have previously documented everything in my post.

You just have cognitive dissonance because my post does not agree with Israeli propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Not so. I have previously documented everything in my post.
> 
> You just have cognitive dissonance because my post does not agree with Israeli propaganda.


I never saw the documentation wherein the Treaty of Lausanne invented the "County of Pal'istan" or any "new states".

Link?.... to the exact citations.

Here you are:Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive


----------



## Hollie

What motivates Pal terrorism? At its core is a cradle to grave program of indoctrination that presses koranic ideals of Jew hatred, entitlement to lands in perpetuity that have been conquered and / or occupied by islamic invaders. The easy answer is that Islam needs to claw its way out of the 7th century mindset from which it was formed and undergo a reformation. 










						It’s Not the Economy: What Really Motivates Palestinian Terrorism
					

School children being taught to hate Israel and murder Israelis. Official PA-TV June 2, 2020, Photo: Palestinian Media Watch. The …




					www.algemeiner.com
				









School children being taught to hate Israel and murder Israelis. Official PA-TV June 2, 2020, Photo: Palestinian Media Watch.
The escalating Palestinian Authority (PA) crackdown against West Bank residents living under its control is an important story that has largely been ignored by the international media. Seemingly, the plight of ordinary Palestinians is not newsworthy.


----------



## Hollie

TNN, (Terrorist News Network), is running a story alleging that Israel plans to steal what TNN describes as an ''ancient Pal archeological site''.

I'm think the ancient archeological site may be a place revered for being graced with the footsteps of an Egyptian (Arafat), who invented ''Pals''.  

As to ancient archeological site, well, I suppose that's another absurdity of Pal'ism where an invented people with an invented national identity have now invented their own ancient archeological sites. 












						Palestinian Mayor Warns: Israel Plans to Steal Ancient Palestinian Archeological Site (VIDEO)
					

Palestinian Mayor Ibrahim Assi said that Israeli authorities are seeking to steal the archaeological site of Dar Al-Darb.




					www.palestinechronicle.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The total number of Palestinian terror attacks in 2021 reached 54, according to a report published on Wednesday by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center.

It said that despite incidents related to Israel’s 11-day conflict last May with Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the scope of terrorism in the West Bank and Jerusalem remained similar to that of past years going back to 2017.

By comparison, 40 attacks were carried out in 2020, while 34 were recorded in 2019 and 55 in 2018.









						Report: 54 Palestinian Terror Attacks Took Place in Israel in 2021, Up From Prior Year
					

Palestinian rioters hurl Molotov cocktails at IDF troops in Hebron, March 9, 2018. Photo: Reuters / Mussa Qawasma. JNS.org – …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Two Palestinian murderers are: *​
*“Shining stars in the skies of Palestine”*​
*“Heroic important leaders”*​
*“Symbols” *​
*Chairman of PA-funded Prisoners’ Club “bows in honor and admiration”*​
*City squares are named after them*​
(full article online)










						From Nazi Germany to the PA: Murder of Jews/Israelis is heroic | PMW Analysis
					

Two Palestinian murderers are: “Shining stars in the skies of Palestine”




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

28. Palestinian-American activist and attorney Huwaida Arraf runs for Congress​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

( They desecrate it because it has never been holy to them, nor is it now )


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Something of a different tune being sung by Emperor Erdogan. There are conflicting signals but Erdogan may be souring on his relationship with Hamas. 

Can someone cue up B B King's ''The Thrill is Gone''?

Erdogan is a devout Sunni so any appearance of accommodation to Israel is noteworthy. I wouldn't be surprised if two elements are causing a shift in tactics. 1) Arab states are onboard with the economic opportunities available with Israel and Erdogan may be seeing lost opportunities. 2). As a devout Sunni, the relationship Hamas has with Shia Iran may be an unforgivable sin. 





__





						If Ankara is making Hamas terrorists leave, how come its media is silent? - analysis
					





					www.msn.com
				




The latest Ankara “reconciliation” narrative has been fed to Israeli media over the last few weeks. Israel’s Channel 12 reported the news that Turkey might reduce the Hamas presence. But there is no evidence that it has actually reduced the role of Hamas terrorists who receive red carpet treatment from Ankara.

TURKEY ANNOUNCED on January 18 that Israel’s president would visit without corresponding coordination or a similar announcement from the Israeli side.


----------



## Hollie

The Gulf Arab states must he asking themselves ''if we make a list of pro / con arguments about where our priorities lie in 2022 and beyond..... lets see.... cooperation with Israel provides economic, socio-political, strategic and military benefits with Shia Iran as an antagonistic player. 

On the other hand, cooperation with Hamas and other Pally terrorist groups provides a financial drain as an endless money pit, socio-political isolation from the west, and the Pal terrorist groups humiliating the Sunni Arab states by aligning with the Shia heretics.

Decisions, decisions. 











						Hamas Angers UAE, Saudi Arabia Over Support for Houthi Iranian Proxy Militia
					

For now, the UAE continues to support social enterprises in Gaza -- but this could change.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Public marches recently held in Gaza and statements made by senior Hamas figures, all in favor of the Houthis, have provoked a great deal of anger in the Gulf, as well as in moderate Arab states.

The Ramallah-based leadership of the Palestinian Authority (PA), however, publicly condemned the Houthis — but has not had control over Gaza since June 2007, when Hamas enacted a military coup and seized control over the enclave.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Pal terrorists have launched into some real islamo-melodrama.

The corrected slogan should be modified as such:
''we will declare war and a revolution will ignite.... and we have lots of our throw-away children we can ignite''.​










						Fatah threatens "we will declare war and a revolution will ignite" if Palestinian terrorist with cancer dies in prison | PMW Translations
					

If "precious" Nasser Abu Hmeid, terrorist murderer and cancer patient, dies while being held in Israeli prison, Fatah "will burn the world" – they warn "yes, this is a threat: our rifles are lethal"




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah threatens "we will declare war and a revolution will ignite" if Palestinian terrorist with cancer dies in prison​
Awdah TV, Fatah-run  | Fatah's Information and Culture Commission‎, Facebook  | Jan 18, 2022
Video posted on the Facebook page of the Fatah Commission of Information and Culture


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

More of the international islamic terrorism that involves the Pals. 










						Hassan Diab: Canadian academic to stand trial in French terrorism case
					

Professor Hassan Diab is accused of involvement in the 1980 Rue Copernic bombing that killed four.



					www.bbc.com
				




Canadian academic accused of a 1980 bombing outside a Paris synagogue will face trial in 2023, five years after he was freed due to lack of evidence.

France says Lebanese-born sociology professor Hassan Diab was a member of a Palestinian militant group and planted a bomb that killed four and wounded 40.


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys celebrate the death of their children as much as they celebrate the deaths of their victims killed as a part of the islamist gee-had.










						Palestinian terror groups praise deadly West Bank attack
					

Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP hail, but don't claim, 'heroic operation' that killed an Israeli man near the Homesh outpost




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Palestinian terror groups were quick to praise a shooting attack that fatally wounded an Israeli man in the northern West Bank on Thursday night, although none claimed responsibility for it.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I suppose Hamas was running its international gee-had program on behalf of Iran from the relative safety of Turkey. 










						Hamas headquarters in Istanbul ‘directed hundreds of terror attacks’
					

A new report by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs also finds that the headquarters laundered millions of dollars.The post Hamas headquarters in Istanbul ‘directed hundreds of terror attacks’ appeared




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




Hamas’s headquarters in Istanbul has directed hundreds of terrorist attacks against Israelis and laundered millions of dollars, a recent report by the _Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs_ has said.

The report noted that “a decade has passed since the official opening of Hamas’s offices in Istanbul, and Turkey is courting Israel anew. Turkey collaborates with terror organizations on both the ideological and operational levels. Terrorists working on Turkish soil establish infrastructures and plan terror attacks against Israel.”


----------



## Hollie

Those Pals are so ungrateful. The Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist syndicates have spent decades developing their wealth and luxury living from exploiting the ''poor, oppressed Islamic terrorist'' meme. 

Islam means submission Sinwar needs a Mercedes.  








__





						Palestinian online campaign blames Hamas for Gaza misery
					





					www.msn.com
				




Palestinians have launched a new social media campaign in protest of Hamas’ rule of the Gaza Strip, holding the Islamist movement responsible for poverty, unemployment, and harsh economic and humanitarian conditions.




© (photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/REUTERS)A boy holds a toy weapon as Palestinians take part in a rally marking the 34th anniversary of Hamas
Hamas supporters claimed that the Palestinian Authority and Israel were behind the new campaign.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism is what defines the territories occupied by Hamas and Fatah. 











						Report: 54 Palestinian terror attacks occurred in 2021, up from previous year
					

Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center documents that three people were killed and 34 wounded in terror attacks, while 1,700 rock-throwing attacks and 350 firebombings occurred.The post Report: 54




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




The total number of Palestinian terror attacks in 2021 reached 54, according to a report published on Wednesday by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center.

It said that despite incidents related to Israel’s 11-day conflict last May with Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the scope of terrorism in the West Bank and Jerusalem remained similar to that of past years going back to 2017.

By comparison, 40 attacks were carried out in 2020, while 34 were recorded in 2019 and 55 in 2018.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorism is what defines the territories occupied by Hamas and Fatah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report: 54 Palestinian terror attacks occurred in 2021, up from previous year
> 
> 
> Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center documents that three people were killed and 34 wounded in terror attacks, while 1,700 rock-throwing attacks and 350 firebombings occurred.The post Report: 54
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.clevelandjewishnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The total number of Palestinian terror attacks in 2021 reached 54, according to a report published on Wednesday by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center.
> 
> It said that despite incidents related to Israel’s 11-day conflict last May with Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the scope of terrorism in the West Bank and Jerusalem remained similar to that of past years going back to 2017.
> 
> By comparison, 40 attacks were carried out in 2020, while 34 were recorded in 2019 and 55 in 2018.


Drop on the bucket compared to Israel's terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Drop on the bucket compared to Israel's terrorism.


Link?


----------



## Hollie

Hasn't anyone told the Pal Authority of Dysfunction that the "country of Pal'istan'' was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne and the ''country of Gaza'istan'' was invented as a ''new state''.?












						PA slams Bennett for opposing Palestinian state
					

Says PM’s remarks to ‘Post’ expose his ‘extremist and anti-peace ideology’




					www.jpost.com
				




The Palestinian Authority has condemned Prime Minister Naftali Bennett for opposing the establishment of a Palestinian state, saying his remarks expose his “extremist and anti-peace ideology.”


----------



## Hollie

It is odd that the "pally cause" is not something the Pal land squatters can even agree on. The idea of establishing a ''country of Pally'land'' when that country was, as we know, invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne, suggests some buffoonery on the part of the Pal squatters. 

''Striving in the way of Muhammud'' as a reason to reconquer lands previously conquerd by the Arab invaders is a more realistic assessment of Pally goals but the Gulf Arab states have no reasonable expectation of that, 

That leaves the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist leadership to bend and scrape before their Shia masters to maintain some of the welfare money being pulled back by western enablers. 











						What is the Palestinian cause? - opinion
					

Confusion reigns within the Palestinian establishment, not about the vision, but about how to reach it.




					www.jpost.com
				




As reiterated time and again, it is the aim of establishing a sovereign state of Palestine on territory, attacked and occupied by Jordan and Egypt in 1948, that Israel overran during the Six Day War in June 1967. In other words, the two-state solution to the perennial Arab-Israeli dispute.

But within the Palestinian body politic, that is not the agreed definition of their cause. A large swath of Palestinian opinion shares the vision of Hamas and supporters of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) movement, to say nothing of the Iran-supported jihadist groups within the Gaza Strip and beyond. Hamas, founded in 1987, initially took its lead from the pronouncement back in 1970 by Yasser Arafat, then chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization: “Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River.... The Palestinian revolution’s basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It is odd that the "pally cause" is not something the Pal land squatters can even agree on. The idea of establishing a ''country of Pally'land'' when that country was, as we know, invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne, suggests some buffoonery on the part of the Pal squatters.
> 
> ''Striving in the way of Muhammud'' as a reason to reconquer lands previously conquerd by the Arab invaders is a more realistic assessment of Pally goals but the Gulf Arab states have no reasonable expectation of that,
> 
> That leaves the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist leadership to bend and scrape before their Shia masters to maintain some of the welfare money being pulled back by western enablers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the Palestinian cause? - opinion
> 
> 
> Confusion reigns within the Palestinian establishment, not about the vision, but about how to reach it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As reiterated time and again, it is the aim of establishing a sovereign state of Palestine on territory, attacked and occupied by Jordan and Egypt in 1948, that Israel overran during the Six Day War in June 1967. In other words, the two-state solution to the perennial Arab-Israeli dispute.
> 
> But within the Palestinian body politic, that is not the agreed definition of their cause. A large swath of Palestinian opinion shares the vision of Hamas and supporters of the BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) movement, to say nothing of the Iran-supported jihadist groups within the Gaza Strip and beyond. Hamas, founded in 1987, initially took its lead from the pronouncement back in 1970 by Yasser Arafat, then chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization: “Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River.... The Palestinian revolution’s basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it.”


The Palestinians are not talking about establishing a country.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not talking about establishing a country.



They're right on track.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not talking about establishing a country.


Which contradicts the Pallys talking about establishing a country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Which contradicts the Pallys talking about establishing a country.


Not really. Palestine is already there. All they need is more recognition.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Diminish Capacity
※→. P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:  Derealization is characterized by persistent depersonalization (_i.e., experiences of unreality or detachment from one's mind, self, or body_) and/or derealization _(i.e., experiences of unreality or detachment from one's surroundings)_. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not talking about establishing a country.





P F Tinmore said:


> Not really. Palestine is already there. All they need is more recognition.


*(COMMENT)*

The inability to recognize the national development of a country and its people is a Neurocognitive Disorder (NCD), in which individuals are born with an inability to develop face recognition skills despite having unimpaired vision and memory.  This is especially true when the community segment has a social disorder that presents as an obstacle in environments with multiple stimuli.  We can see this when a person's attention is disrupted that they cannot function until something breaks the connection.  People that just have to look at the flashing lights of a police car or fire vehicle have a mild form of NCD.  It is almost as if they are mentally captured.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are captured in the conflict.  Like the flashing lights of an emergency vehicle, they turn their head and cannot help but watch it as it passes by.  The Political Neurocognitive Disorder variant (Pol-NCD) does the same thing.  The idea captures them and they cannot unlock their view and make a distinction between the reality around them and the item of attention that has captured them.

The HoAP's attention is profoundly locked onto the idea that they have a country (from the river to the sea) and that the Jewish Immigrants were foreign settlers.  And the effectiveness of this mental lock is so strong that the mental lock has practically consumed them intellectually.  In the case of the HoAP, they cannot distinguish between a political entity and self-government.



			
				United Kingdom Delegation to the United Nations said:
			
		

> MEMORANDUM “A”
> LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE”​
> Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
> 
> 2. After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.
> 
> 3. Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time in a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948; is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held but so far as His Majesty’s Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues.
> 
> 4. After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the _de facto_ or the _de jure_ Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.
> 
> 5. His Majesty’s Government will recognize the United Nations Commission as the authority with which to make an agreement regarding the transfer of the assets of the Government of Palestine.
> *SOURCE*:   *A/AC.21/UK/42. 25 February 1948*



The development of the Pol-NCD is so involved that it acts like stage-four cancer.  And they cannot break away from the attraction of armed struggle.  This armed struggle comes with the unwavering belief that there is no other compelling solution.  The HoAP find this pathogen so strong that a form of face blindness develops and they cannot recognize any other political pathway to take than the unproductive and destructive one they are on.

And while the entire rest of the cognitive world can see and identify, the National Council for the Jewish State evolved into a self-governing nation (through self-determination); the Arab State envisioned by the UN descended and imploded into chaos.  A century later, the lack of cooperation by the HoAP through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government is the foundation for what the world sees today.







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Not really. Palestine is already there. All they need is more recognition.


Not really. the Pals are recognized as Islamic terrorists split into competing, antagonist tribes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Diminish Capacity
> ※→. P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:  Derealization is characterized by persistent depersonalization (_i.e., experiences of unreality or detachment from one's mind, self, or body_) and/or derealization _(i.e., experiences of unreality or detachment from one's surroundings)_.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The inability to recognize the national development of a country and its people is a Neurocognitive Disorder (NCD), in which individuals are born with an inability to develop face recognition skills despite having unimpaired vision and memory.  This is especially true when the community segment has a social disorder that presents as an obstacle in environments with multiple stimuli.  We can see this when a person's attention is disrupted that they cannot function until something breaks the connection.  People that just have to look at the flashing lights of a police car or fire vehicle have a mild form of NCD.  It is almost as if they are mentally captured.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are captured in the conflict.  Like the flashing lights of an emergency vehicle, they turn their head and cannot help but watch it as it passes by.  The Political Neurocognitive Disorder variant (Pol-NCD) does the same thing.  The idea captures them and they cannot unlock their view and make a distinction between the reality around them and the item of attention that has captured them.
> 
> The HoAP's attention is profoundly locked onto the idea that they have a country (from the river to the sea) and that the Jewish Immigrants were foreign settlers.  And the effectiveness of this mental lock is so strong that the mental lock has practically consumed them intellectually.  In the case of the HoAP, they cannot distinguish between a political entity and self-government.
> 
> 
> 
> The development of the Pol-NCD is so involved that it acts like stage-four cancer.  And they cannot break away from the attraction of armed struggle.  This armed struggle comes with the unwavering belief that there is no other compelling solution.  The HoAP find this pathogen so strong that a form of face blindness develops and they cannot recognize any other political pathway to take than the unproductive and destructive one they are on.
> 
> And while the entire rest of the cognitive world can see and identify, the National Council for the Jewish State evolved into a self-governing nation (through self-determination); the Arab State envisioned by the UN descended and imploded into chaos.  A century later, the lack of cooperation by the HoAP through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government is the foundation for what the world sees today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


*WOW!!!!!*  You missed the point of my post.

The Palestinians are not seeking to create a state that conforms to what Israel wants. They want to free the state they already have.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Diminish Capacity
※→. P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*: No, I did not miss your point at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> *WOW!!!!!*  You missed the point of my post.
> 
> The Palestinians are not seeking to create a state that conforms to what Israel wants. They want to free the state they already have.


*(COMMENT)*

I said that the Arab Palestinians who believe they already have the state (_*from the river to the sea*_) are suffering from a Neurocognitive Disorder (NCD). They cannot comprehend the simple truth, no matter what evidence and logic have been presented.

There is a reality that they are NOT grasping.







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Diminish Capacity
> ※→. P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*: No, I did not miss your point at all.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I said that the Arab Palestinians who believe they already have the state (_*from the river to the sea*_) are suffering from a Neurocognitive Disorder (NCD). They cannot comprehend the simple truth, no matter what evidence and logic have been presented.
> 
> There is a reality that they are NOT grasping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> I said that the Arab Palestinians who believe they already have the state (_*from the river to the sea*_) are suffering from a Neurocognitive Disorder (NCD).


Why? That is the unceded territory of Palestine.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Why? That is the unceded territory of Palestine.



Is that your word for "imaginary"?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Why? That is the unceded territory of Palestine.


Your quaint notion that the ''country of Pal'istan'' (the ''country'' you falsely claim was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne), is definitely a cognitive disorder. 

There was no ''country of Pal'istan'' held as sovereign territory by ''Pal'istanians'', therefore no ''unceded territory of Pal'istan''. 

 The first principle of a valid argument is that following a logical progression of facts means the conclusion will be true when a valid premise is true.

^^^^ This is the inverse of your argument which is absent facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Your quaint notion that the ''country of Pal'istan'' (the ''country'' you falsely claim was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne), is definitely a cognitive disorder.
> 
> There was no ''country of Pal'istan'' held as sovereign territory by ''Pal'istanians'', therefore no ''unceded territory of Pal'istan''.
> 
> The first principle of a valid argument is that following a logical progression of facts means the conclusion will be true when a valid premise is true.
> 
> ^^^^ This is the inverse of your argument which is absent facts.





Hollie said:


> There was no ''country of Pal'istan'' held as sovereign territory by ''Pal'istanians'', therefore no ''unceded territory of Pal'istan''.


Links?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Links?
> 
> Of course not.


I previously gave you links to the Treaty of Lausanne so you could point to the *exact* citation wherein that document invented your imagined ''country of Pal'ustan.

Citation?

Of course not.

What are those ''new states'' you insist were invented but never identified?

''The always unanswered question''

''links?''

''Of course not''.


----------



## Hollie

In the event you weren't aware of the Pally history that dates back to their invention in the late 1960's by an Egyptian terrorist thousands of years ago, the squatters with an invented national identity have now invented a history dating back thousands of years.

They even invented an entire history of invented Pals who defeated Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc., during invented invasions by those invented invading armies. 












						Miraculous Palestinian history: “We [Palestinians] defeated the Hyksos, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Tatars, and the Pharaohs,” and will defeat Israel as well | PMW Analysis
					

“We defeated the Hyksos, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Tatars, and the Pharaohs. We have defeated all the invaders who passed through the land of Palestine. On behalf of the Martyrs we will defeat this hated occupation [Israel] that will leave our land.”




					palwatch.org
				










https://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch?sub_confirmation=1
https://www.twitter.com/palwatch
https://www.facebook.com/PalestinianMediaWatch
Miraculous Palestinian history: “We [Palestinians] defeated the Hyksos, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Tatars, and the Pharaohs,” and will defeat Israel as well​Itamar Marcus  | Jan 30, 2022

PA PM’s lies used as basis for hate ideology: “We defeated the Hyksos, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Tatars, and the Pharaohs. *We have defeated all the invaders who passed through the land of Palestine. On behalf of the Martyrs we will defeat this hated occupation [Israel] that will leave our land*.”​
The Palestinian Authority has written a fictitious history for itself that is both comical and dangerous. The PA claims Palestinians to be distinct in the annals of history, being the only people to have defeated many of the greatest empires. Incredibly, the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Pharaohs, Hyksos and Tatars, all were defeated by the Palestinians, according to Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh speaking in the name of Mahmoud Abbas, at the Palestinian Martyrs’ Day ceremony in Ramallah.

Given that only last century after the creation of the State of Israel did some Arabs of the land of Israel adopt a Palestinian identity, the PA’s Prime Minister’s fantasy could be dismissed as laughable and irrelevant. However, the continuation of the PM’s words, using this fantasy history to justify his call to fight to destroy Israel, shows how dangerous even a lie can be:


> “We have defeated all the invaders who passed through the land of Palestine. On behalf of the Martyrs we will defeat this hated occupation [Israel] that will leave our land.”
> [Official PA TV Live, Jan. 9, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

Pallys seethe. 

Aside from stating the usual Pally behavior, there is some world class seething taking place at the Yasser Arafat shrine, sometimes called the Pally museum, sometimes called ''the place where an invented people with an invented national identity have now invented a history of Pally'dom dating back thousands of years when they repelled invented armies''.










						Palestinians Seethe Over Ugly Arafat Cartoons
					

Palestinian activists have denounced a cartoon exhibition in Ramallah deemed "offensive" to Yasser Arafat.




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

It's really just so horrible that a Cult like this, a Cult with a shared, all-consuming mental disorder still receives welfare money from the international community.













						PA death worship: "Terrorists' "souls hover in Paradise... adorned with a crown of honor," says PA Prime Minister | PMW Analysis
					

PA PM on terrorists killed during attacks: “Martyrs… blood is perfume… They are adorned with a crown of honor”




					palwatch.org
				




PA death worship: "Terrorists' "souls hover in Paradise... adorned with a crown of honor," says PA Prime Minister​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jan 31, 2022

*PA PM on terrorists killed during attacks: “The Martyrs are heroes... Their blood is perfume, and their souls hover in Paradise together with the righteous and the prophets. They are adorned with a crown of honor, and their blood waters the anemones that bloom in all of Palestine. ”*​
*PA PM stresses: Paying families of dead terrorist “Martyrs” is “a moral commitment” for the PA*​
*PA PM: Goal is to destroy Israel - “We’ve defeated all the invaders… we’ll defeat this hated occupation that will leave our land”*​
Speaking on behalf of PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas at the Palestinian Martyrs’ Day ceremony in Ramallah, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh stressed certain key issues in PA ideology that Palestinian Media Watch has continuously exposed:

Terrorists – be they imprisoned, released, or dead as “Martyrs” – are “heroes” and role models for PA society
Therefore the PA sees it as its duty and “moral commitment” to pay them salaries
The ultimate goal for the PA is Israel's destruction – “to defeat the invader”
The following are excerpts of Shtayyeh’s speech emphasizing these ideologies:
*Terrorists killed during attacks - “Martyrs” in PA terminology - are “heroes… Their blood is perfume… They are adorned with a crown of honor”:*


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Terrorism and the Religious Struggle
※→  Sixties Fan, et al,

*PREFACE:*  You have made - just an enormous number of contributions to the discussion.  This one is really interesting.



Sixties Fan said:


> "Why kill religious Jewish children?



*(COMMENT)*

*HAMAS General Principles and Policies*​16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion.​
I've heard this claim several times.  But I am not sure what the true position is.  The Palestinians do not speak with one voice.  Furthermore, the Arab Palestinians do not have the proper representation necessary in the Israeli Legal System would demonstrate that Israeli Law is not bound to support a one-sided Jewish system, that it is not prone to support any action brought against the Israeli Governmental agencies, but rather the courts sit and rule on the higher order of fairness and justice in what should be done outside and beyond the political environment.

While I generally write in support of the Israeli side of the conflict, the law must always discard the standing of the Hostile Arab Palestinian and approach the development of each judgment in a blind manner.

*Extracted From*
Religious Conflicts (Science Direct)​At the same time, religious conflict may be used as a front for a hidden political agenda.​From: Security and Loss Prevention (Sixth Edition), 2013​​The violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians today is an example of religious and political conflict. Several wars have been fought between Israel and its Arab neighbors. Israeli military superiority resulted in the capture of land from its Arab neighbors. Because the PLO saw that Arab allies were unable to drive Israeli armed forces from occupied lands, the PLO began a campaign of terrorism, as did other groups. The goals are to destroy Israel and form an Arab state in Palestine. Today, a political solution is slowly developing as Israeli forces continue to withdraw from occupied lands, although the withdrawals are marred by violence from both sides.​*SOURCE*:  *Terrorism and Homeland Security*,  Author:  _Philip P. Purpura, formerly the Coordinator of the Security for Houses of Worship Project in South Carolina, _​Written works: Security: ​
An Introduction (2010) · 
The Security Handbook (1991) · 
Security & loss prevention (1984) · 
Modern security & loss prevention management (1989)
As I have said before, the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict evolves over time.  Each of the many facets begins to take a new shape with some shrinking in emphasis and others taking on a larger portion of the political center.  Although the Palestinians have long claimed that the focus is on the persistent legal battles encompassing property ownership. The Palestinians have been (_for more than two decades_) trying to get the Israeli courts to give the attention they believe this issue deserves and put an end to the forcible displacement of Palestinians from their homes everywhere in the disputed territories. However, this would pry open the flood gates for a string of cases involving the equitable settlement for personal holding losses, compensation for real property incurred, and reasonable penalties for the suffering imposed upon non-Jewish families.

This poses a real dilemma for the Jewish legal system on the burden it levies on the true ethics it must apply in District Court (_Beit Mishpat Mehozi_) on this immense legal problem the Israeli judiciary will deal with in both aspects of common and civil law. 

I am quite sure that no one in the Israeli Justice system will read this, I am 100% sure that independently, the mover and shakers in the Israeli system of justice are already looking at the ways in which they might approach this issue from on high.

Just My Thoughts, 10 agorot worth,




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab Reporters for Investigative Journalism (ARIJ) issued a scathing report about routine torture by multiple Palestinian Authority security services of critics of the regime.
They admit that they are probably underreporting the problem.

They investigated 250 out of more than 2600 arbitrary arrests of Palestinians between 2015 and mid-2021. They were all for either political activity, criticism of the Abbas regime or participation in protests.





61% of the detainees were tortured, including beatings, deprivation of food, deprivation of toilets, and sleep deprivation. 

One victim said, "I was subjected to falanga; they whipped my feet with a plastic tube or hose. This happened four times. After the beating, the interrogator would force me to walk in the corridor in front of the investigation office and run barefoot for ten minutes. They tied my hands in the back and threw the rope over the iron door and pulled hard until my body arched forward. The rope was tied to the iron door from behind, and they covered my head with a hood."

The report exposes cases where detainees are kept in prison even after posting bail, sometimes for months and with multiple payments. 

(full article online )









						Meanwhile, a report about Palestinian torture of political prisoners doesn't get any coverage
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Several wars have been fought between Israel and its Arab neighbors. Israeli military superiority resulted in the capture of land from its Arab neighbors.


Please explain.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Arab Reporters for Investigative Journalism (ARIJ) issued a scathing report about routine torture by multiple Palestinian Authority security services of critics of the regime.
> They admit that they are probably underreporting the problem.
> 
> They investigated 250 out of more than 2600 arbitrary arrests of Palestinians between 2015 and mid-2021. They were all for either political activity, criticism of the Abbas regime or participation in protests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 61% of the detainees were tortured, including beatings, deprivation of food, deprivation of toilets, and sleep deprivation.
> 
> One victim said, "I was subjected to falanga; they whipped my feet with a plastic tube or hose. This happened four times. After the beating, the interrogator would force me to walk in the corridor in front of the investigation office and run barefoot for ten minutes. They tied my hands in the back and threw the rope over the iron door and pulled hard until my body arched forward. The rope was tied to the iron door from behind, and they covered my head with a hood."
> 
> The report exposes cases where detainees are kept in prison even after posting bail, sometimes for months and with multiple payments.
> 
> (full article online )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, a report about Palestinian torture of political prisoners doesn't get any coverage
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


PA security forces are vetted, trained, and paid by the US.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Palestinians have been (_for more than two decades_) trying to get the Israeli courts to give the attention they believe this issue deserves and put an end to the forcible displacement of Palestinians from their homes everywhere in the disputed territories. However, this would pry open the flood gates for a string of cases involving the equitable settlement for personal holding losses, compensation for real property incurred, and reasonable penalties for the suffering imposed upon non-Jewish families.


Indeed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> PA security forces are vetted, trained, and paid by the US.


Were you told that in funny farm?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed.



Indeed,
Arab supremacists can't address
a single fact contradicting their delusions.

So what's your alternative now,
playing a Jihadi pokimon while sipping Vodka in L.A?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBTOPIC*: Several Wars and the Lost Territory
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:   There is a huge difference between "frank and "open" discussions → and that of the → "deceptive-serpentine and tortured truths, twisting reality, winding around the facts" that characterized the manner in which the Arab Palestinians relate to the truth.  Mr Purpura is not trying to camouflage an arealy hidden agenda; but, rather calls it as he sees it.



			
				[I]Philip P. Purpura[/I] said:
			
		

> Several wars have been fought between Israel and its Arab neighbors. Israeli military superiority resulted in the capture of land from its Arab neighbors.
> 
> *SOURCE:* Terrorism and Homeland Security, Author:  _Philip P. Purpura, formerly the Coordinator of the Security for Houses of Worship Project in South Carolina,_





P F Tinmore said:


> Please explain.


*(COMMENT)*

Mr Purura is not trying to dazzle anyone with his knowledge of political-military (POL-MIL) tactics.  He is not trying to avoid the nuance that there is really no difference between 50 years of sovereignty and 50 years of occupation when there is no reasonable expectation that effective control will be released.  He is just being candid because he has no interest in the outcome of the conflict or the technical differences the POL-MIL Community makes between the status of the two.  Relative to Mr Purura (_and most of the people who think along those same lines_) and all practical purposes, the POL-MIL status is the same.

Mr Purura published his work at a time in 2013 when 15 rocket attacks (_indiscriminate fire_) 18 mortar attacks (_indirect targetable fire_) the purpose of such acts being to intimidate a population and to compel a functioning government is an open terrorist strategy → holding peace for Ransome. 

Over the last 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have had no governmental leadership over the territory in dispute except for the Gaza Strip and Area "A."  Plane talk says that is not territory the Arab Palestinians have had control and leadership, nor can ever claim as theirs.  The West Bank was last under the sovereignty of Jordan.  That was not the control or leadership by the Arab Palestinians.

The last sovereign power over the West Bank, abandon its ties to the West Bank leaving it in the sole hands of the Israelis.  

The Arab Palestinians had no control to start with.  The Arab Palestinians had no functioning government in place.  And so, the Arab Palestinians did not successfully defend the territory.

Every now and then, Mahmoud Abbas holds up the map that shows the shrinkage of Arab Palestinian Territory.  What it actually shows territory they never held sovereignty over.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians had no control to start with. The Arab Palestinians had no functioning government in place. And so, the Arab Palestinians did not successfully defend the territory.


Article 4​States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.





__





						Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States - The Faculty of Law
					






					www.jus.uio.no


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.



And because the state of Palestine never existed........


----------



## Sixties Fan

_On January 29, 2022, the Palestinian Embassy in Warsaw, Poland held a memorial ceremony marking the first anniversary of the death of Khalil Nazzal, who had been the secretary of Fatah's Poland branch. In attendance were Arab ambassadors, representatives of the Palestinian community, and representatives of the local Fatah branch, along with relatives of Nazzal.

At the ceremony, Palestinian Ambassador to Poland Mahmoud Khalifa posthumously awarded a "medal of excellence" on behalf of Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas to Nazzal's widow Dr. Najwa Abu Yasin, "as a mark of appreciation for his national and professional path, for his efforts in the service of our people and the Palestinian communities of Europe, and in appreciation of his role in strengthening Palestine-Poland relations." Khalifa also highlighted Nazzal's "national stature," calling him "a pioneer among the protectors of the Right of Return."

In February 2020, MEMRI published a translation of excerpts from an article by Nazzal that appeared in the PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_ in January of that year, in which he stated that that Israel "inflates" the number of victims of the Holocaust in order to "blackmail the world and force it to accept" its policy. Israel, he said, had unjustly appropriated the suffering of the Jews in the Holocaust, and even exploited it, to justify its injustice of the Nakba against the Palestinian people._

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority (PA) President Abbas Awards Posthumous Medal To Fatah Official Khalil Nazzal, Who Accused Israel Of Inflating Numbers Of Holocaust Victims To Justify Its Crimes
					






					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Satire)
 (If only more people who know the truth would tell the truth)

Ramallah, February 1 – Nice to meet you all! My name is Mahmoud, and my favorite pastime involves assuming the trappings of an ancient people with unique cultural ties to this land, when in fact the vast majority of my would-be nation boasts ancestry with little connection to this geographical entity. But it’s fun to pretend!

If you like, you may call me Abu Mazen – “father of Mazen.” I had a son, unfortunately deceased, and that kind of honorific developed in Arab culture long ago. You know, the people who swept out of the Arabian Peninsula in the seventh, eighth, and ninth centuries of the Common Era and conquered vast territory, colonizing it all up the wazoo and imposing Islam and the Arabic language wherever they went. Still, I have a good time playing make-believe with my people’s indigeneity to “Palestine,” a term even we Arabs and Muslims didn’t use to refer to the Holy Land until the twentieth century. It’s a foreign term – but that’s OK, because we’re just pretending!

Sometimes, though, we pretend a little too hard, and convince even ourselves that the pretense reflects reality, and that’s when we get into all sorts of trouble. Our make-believe is so compelling that we don’t even believe the _real_ indigenous people when they claim ancient attachment to the land! We get violent and throw tantrums and make tons and tons of noise. Mine! All mine! You can’t have any! Go away!

That worked a little bit, but they kept coming anyway, even when powerful forces such as the British Empire stopped them from coming in large numbers while the Germans and their local collaborators tried to get rid of those pesky folks. By that time we’d thoroughly convinced enough people that we didn’t need to share. But the trouble continued! It turns out those other people, the actual indigenous people, felt it so important to reassert their belonging to, and in, the land, that they didn’t stop trying to rebuild their own society here after thousands of years of exile even while we attacked them, killed their children, burned down their communities, and just generally behaved like the spoiled children we’d become. Mine!

This game is so addictive, though. It’s brought us only misery, but we can’t help it. It was bad enough in 1948 that we and our strong buddies from all around failed to push those other people into the sea, as promised, but lost control of even more territory; in 1967, after years of continued attacks against them, we lost even bigger.

And you know what? We’re going to keep doing this, because it’s just so much _fun_ to cosplay.

Also it helps us take our minds off the shame of having nothing positive at all to contribute to culture or history. But mostly the fun thing.









						My Name Is Mahmoud, And I Like To Cosplay As Indigenous – PreOccupied Territory
					

It's brought us only misery, but we can't help it.




					www.preoccupiedterritory.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And because the state of Palestine never existed........


Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not.



You're free to prove me wrong.......


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Article 4​States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States - The Faculty of Law
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jus.uio.no


Back we go to your hilarious screeching about the Treaty of Lausanne inventing the ''state of pally'land''.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not.


If you believe the Treaty of Lausanne invented the ''state of pally'land'', post the citation.

Link?

Of course not.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Judicial Equality
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:  I am NOT a lawyer.  I do NOT practice law.

Humm!  No one challenged Judicial equality - Relative to the territories in dispute → in the commentaries back to 1 November 2021 (_3 months_) and *Mindful's Posting # 21000*.
 .
Article 4 of the Montevideo Convention applied to functioning states.  So that citation, while useless, has some value to the principle that there is some mutual benefit (_supporting the Rule of Law_), especially privileges granted by one country to another (_the idea of __Reciprocity_).

It should be noted that no real effort was made, by the Arab Palestinians, to make a determination on what systems of law were in play.  The Jordanian Military Governor made the decision (24 May 1948) and ordered that for legal stability of the West Bank and Jerusalem, all laws and regulations that were in force on 15 May 1948 (Israeli Independence Day) would remain in force unless changed by the Military Governor.
___________________________
Civilian Judicial System in the West Bank and Gaza :  Present and Future • © Copyright, International Commission of Jurists, 1994, Geneva


RoccoR said:


> l The Arab Palestinians had no control to start with.  The Arab Palestinians had no functioning government in place.  And so, the Arab Palestinians did not successfully defend the territory.





P F Tinmore said:


> Article 4​States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.


*(COMMENT)*

I will skip to the big facts...  The International Court of Justice (ICJ) and the Centre for the Independence of Judges and Lawyers (CIJL) did not become involved in 1993 and the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) sent a Diplomatic Mission to the Occupied
Territories in dispute.  In examining the period between 1952 and 1967, the ICJ and the CIJL were quite impressed by the development and progress made under Jordanian rule; even though the integration of new laws and legal systems drifted more and more in the direction of the continental models of Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.º
________________________________________________
º  These Arab Models Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon were not the most stable governments for the Arab Palestinians to pattern themselves after.  Israel turned out to become the most developed nation in the region as well as the most stable.

*(THE IMPORTANT PIECE)*

In my studies, I was struck by the fact that both the ICJ and the CIJL agreed that the ICJ maintained that the West Bank East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are governed by the provisions of the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  In our opinion, these standards continue to apply, even after the signing of the Israeli/Palestinian Accords on 13 September 1993, in matters which are not transferred to the Palestinians. These were NOT jurisprudence that the Atab Palestinians contributed to in any significant way.

The GCIV establishes that some of its provisions continue to apply for the duration, as long as the Israelis exercise and maintain the functions of government.

However, the Israelis, may NOT change laws, even though they maintain the functions of government.  The ICJ and the CIJL made it clear:

"The main principle under international law governing laws and courts during occupation is that the occupier is not the sovereign of the territory[. Thus,] he has no right to make changes in the laws, or in the administration, other than those which are temporarily necessitated by his interest in the maintenance and safety of his army and the realization of the purpose of the war. On the contrary, he has the duty of administering the country according to the existing laws and the existing rules of administration."ª
_________________________________
ª  2 Oppenheim’s International Law pp 437 (Lauterpacht ed., 7th ed. 1952).
Civilian Judicial System in the West Bank and Gaza :  Present and Future pp 20

*(∑)*

While I do not think this is of any importance to the discussion at hand, I thought it was important to explain why I brushed it out of hand, as having no consequence.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Judicial Equality
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:  I am NOT a lawyer.  I do NOT practice law.
> 
> Humm!  No one challenged Judicial equality - Relative to the territories in dispute → in the commentaries back to 1 November 2021 (_3 months_) and *Mindful's Posting # 21000*.
> .
> Article 4 of the Montevideo Convention applied to functioning states.  So that citation, while useless, has some value to the principle that there is some mutual benefit (_supporting the Rule of Law_), especially privileges granted by one country to another (_the idea of __Reciprocity_).
> 
> It should be noted that no real effort was made, by the Arab Palestinians, to make a determination on what systems of law were in play.  The Jordanian Military Governor made the decision (24 May 1948) and ordered that for legal stability of the West Bank and Jerusalem, all laws and regulations that were in force on 15 May 1948 (Israeli Independence Day) would remain in force unless changed by the Military Governor.
> ___________________________
> Civilian Judicial System in the West Bank and Gaza :  Present and Future • © Copyright, International Commission of Jurists, 1994, Geneva
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I will skip to the big facts...  The International Court of Justice (ICJ) and the Centre for the Independence of Judges and Lawyers (CIJL) did not become involved in 1993 and the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) sent a Diplomatic Mission to the Occupied
> Territories in dispute.  In examining the period between 1952 and 1967, the ICJ and the CIJL were quite impressed by the development and progress made under Jordanian rule; even though the integration of new laws and legal systems drifted more and more in the direction of the continental models of Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.º
> ________________________________________________
> º  These Arab Models Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon were not the most stable governments for the Arab Palestinians to pattern themselves after.  Israel turned out to become the most developed nation in the region as well as the most stable.
> 
> *(THE IMPORTANT PIECE)*
> 
> In my studies, I was struck by the fact that both the ICJ and the CIJL agreed that the ICJ maintained that the West Bank East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are governed by the provisions of the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  In our opinion, these standards continue to apply, even after the signing of the Israeli/Palestinian Accords on 13 September 1993, in matters which are not transferred to the Palestinians. These were NOT jurisprudence that the Atab Palestinians contributed to in any significant way.
> 
> The GCIV establishes that some of its provisions continue to apply for the duration, as long as the Israelis exercise and maintain the functions of government.
> 
> However, the Israelis, may NOT change laws, even though they maintain the functions of government.  The ICJ and the CIJL made it clear:
> 
> "The main principle under international law governing laws and courts during occupation is that the occupier is not the sovereign of the territory[. Thus,] he has no right to make changes in the laws, or in the administration, other than those which are temporarily necessitated by his interest in the maintenance and safety of his army and the realization of the purpose of the war. On the contrary, he has the duty of administering the country according to the existing laws and the existing rules of administration."ª
> _________________________________
> ª  2 Oppenheim’s International Law pp 437 (Lauterpacht ed., 7th ed. 1952).
> Civilian Judicial System in the West Bank and Gaza :  Present and Future pp 20
> 
> *(∑)*
> 
> While I do not think this is of any importance to the discussion at hand, I thought it was important to explain why I brushed it out of hand, as having no consequence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





> RoccoR said:                            l The Arab Palestinians had no control to start with.  The Arab Palestinians had no functioning government in place.  And so, the Arab Palestinians did not successfully defend the territory.





> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> Article 4States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.



You say that because Palestinians do not have guns they have no rights.

That is not what the law says.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You're free to prove me wrong.......


You said it, you prove it.

You are just ducking.


----------



## Hollie

For me, Islamic terrorist (pally) reconciliation means the two tribes will eventually need to finish the civil war they started when Israel withdrew from Gaza. Basically, a continuation of the 1,400 year long internecine war that divides the Shia and Sunni. 












						What does supporting “Palestinian reconciliation” really mean? | PMW Analysis
					

When people and organizations call for “Palestinian reconciliation”, what they are really saying is that even though Hamas openly seeks Israel's destruction and openly brags about its murderous terror, this should not prevent it from being a legitimate partner within the Palestinian Authority




					palwatch.org
				




What does supporting “Palestinian reconciliation” really mean?​Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus  | Feb 2, 2022
The two Palestinian groups - Fatah and Hamas - which dominate Palestinian society, have constantly been at loggerheads. Hamas publicly advocates for Israel's destruction and openly uses terror as a means to forward its goal. Fatah exercises political pragmatism. To the international community Fatah claims to have rejected terror, while to its own people it honors terrorists, rewards them financially, and celebrates the murder of Israelis. To the international community Fatah claims to have accepted Israel's existence, but to its own people and children it regularly reminds them that its goal is elimination of Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Judicial Equality
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> You say that because Palestinians do not have guns they have no rights.
> 
> That is not what the law says.


*(COMMENT)*

You say this like → I never give you a citation to work with. 

In this accusation, which particular "law" am I contradicting?  If I am wrong, I will acknowledge that fact.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You say that because Palestinians do not have guns they have no rights.
> 
> That is not what the law says.


Did you really think that response made sense?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> You said it, you prove it.
> 
> You are just ducking.














			https://www.drake.edu/media/departmentsoffices/dussj/2006-2003documents/PalestineGiridhar.pdf


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: WMD
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You two are good for comic relief.



aris2chat said:


> Why do countries with nuclear weapons have them?  Are they all mad dogs?  Is Iran a mad dog?  Their war against Sunni Islam could well endanger the planet.





Art__Allm said:


> No, I do not know any country (except Israel) that has a "mad-dog-doctrine".
> 
> Most nuclear countries do not threaten with the destruction of the entire world, if their regime collapses.


*(FOGGY ANSWER)*

The United States is the only country in the world to use a Nuclear Device to settle an armed conflict (_*War with Japan)*_.  The big secret in the US at the conclusion of WWII is that the US did not have any more Nuclear Weapons.  The US only made the two, which they used on Japan.

After WWII, the fact that the US had deployed nuclear weapons, was prima facie evidence to the world that the US was nuclear-armed.  Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) was a "military" strategy and the political parallel to the strategy was the US policy that the US would not rule out a "First Strike" option.  To this day, the US has not ruled out the First Strike option and to this day, the US will neither confirm nor deny that any military element is nuclear-armed (or NOT).  Several countries emulate the US military and political policies in this matter.

The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) is a Political-Military (POL-MIL) Strategy to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons technology and materials.  Israel not only emulates US policy on acknowledgment but also takes no step (_*political or military)*_ to suggest an Israeli Nuclear Strategy, one way or the other.  (_Israeli Position:  Nuclear Weapon?  What is that?_)

I'm not sure what the "mad-dog-doctrine" is, exactly.  There should not be an Islamic Policy on the use of nuclear weapons.  If there were such a thing as an Islamic Nuclear Weapons Policy, then that would endanger the continued existence of Mecca.  And that is of no value to either the Abrahamic Religions or one of the other belief structures.  But Iran poses some unique scenarios that may trigger an unfavorable response.  And again, no one wants that except for fanatics and those with mental health issues.

Just My Thoughts,




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, there is an op-ed by Dr. Mustafa Youssef Al-Ledawi in Palestine Today who claims that the phrase represents only a tiny minority, but it must be fought against. It clearly has made serious inroads in Arab thinking.

Al-Ledawi summarizes how things have changed in the Arab world and their complaints against Palestinians:


> We must admit that the climate has changed, and that the policies that prevailed in the past have changed, and the Palestinian issue has become for most Arab and Islamic regimes their last concern, and least concern. Some Arab regimes have portrayed the Palestinians saying that they are the danger [to the Arab world], and that it is their actions that have harmed them and caused them to perish, and that it drained their resources and hindered their abilities, and describes them as rogues, corrupt, liars, hypocrites, unfaithful stalkers, turning against those who stood with them, biting the hand that fed them, and denying those who supported them, and thus they do not deserve sympathy.


Ledawi contradicts himself several times, claiming both that these are fringe opinions but then saying that Arab media is controlled by those who hold them, which is absurd. He also doesn't even attempt to answer the Arab criticisms of the Palestinians - that they side with Iran, that they remain divided, that the money that has poured into them from the Arab world has been wasted on corruption and infighting, that they have spurned peace offer after peace offer. 

Despite his trying to downplay the issue, it is clearly a major concern for Palestinian leadership who have seen donations from Arab states dry up in recent years. 

(full article online)









						Palestinians are still worried about the hashtag "Palestine is not my cause"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Lots of absurdity in that little slice of Islamic terrorism called the PA.










						Terrorists receiving “military ranks” and officers being murdered – Expressions of the morally bankrupt PA reality | PMW Analysis
					

Speaking recently, released terrorist murderer Al-Silawi thanked PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas for the “military rank” he was given and “salaries” the PA pays him




					palwatch.org
				





Terrorists receiving “military ranks” and officers being murdered – Expressions of the morally bankrupt PA reality​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 3, 2022
The contrast between how Palestinian terrorist Osama Al-Silawi and United States Army Captain Taylor Force received their military ranks provides a clear picture of the moral bankruptcy of the Palestinian Authority.

Speaking recently, released terrorist murderer Al-Silawi thanked PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas for the “military rank” he was given and “salaries” the PA pays him.


----------



## Hollie

More of the alternate reality that defines the Pal sociopath. 

To this point, Israeli citizens have met the test of Islamic gee-had by bringing responses to those attacks which quickly cow the islamic terrorists The whiners who insist that Israel refrain from acting to eliminate all threats posed by the gee-had misfits are deceiving only themselves  --  which js another crine for which Nature often imposes cruel penalties.













						PA repeats the Big Lie: “Not a single Palestinian has carried out a single operation in order to kill civilians" | PMW Analysis
					

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” This sentence describes a core tenet of Nazi propaganda, but it could also be said to apply to the PA’s repetition of insidious lies and libels.




					palwatch.org
				




PA repeats the Big Lie: “Not a single Palestinian has carried out a single operation in order to kill civilians���​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 4, 2022


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> “Not a single Palestinian has carried out a single operation in order to kill civilians



Obviously................ 















Multiple Palestinians have carried out many attacks in order to kill civilians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

have noted before that the word "Justice" when used in context of "Palestinians demand justice" or "No justice, no peace" or Students for Justice in Palestine," is a dog-whistle that means the end of Israel. 

It turns out that this is not a recent phenomenon. 

Yehoshafat Harkabi, in his 1974 work "Arab Attitudes to Israel," has a short section on this very topic.

He describes many genocidal phrases popular in the Arab world throughout the 1960s that sound innocuous to those who are not on the inside, such as "liberation": Here is what he writes about how the word "justice" is used:



> "JUST SOLUTION FOR THE PALESTINE PROBLEM," "JUST PEACE," "PEACE ON THE BASIS OF JUSTICE," "NON-ACCEPTANCE OF THE FAIT ACCOMPLI," "SETTLEMENT ACCORDING TO LEGAL RIGHTS," "SOLUTION ACCORDING TO UN PRINCIPLES"
> 
> The Arabs emphasize that they seek a "just solution" or a "just peace," which constitutes the opposite pole to a peace or solution founded on the status quo, on the fact of Israel's existence. The just solution, according to this view, is the annulment of the wrong involved in the very existence of Israel and the restoration of Israel to its legal owners. Justice is a denial of Israel's existence. Thus Nasser says:





> _"We talk peace, but we do not accept peace that is based on the usurpation of rights and on the fait accompli. That is why we work for peace, but we want peace based on justice." (Speech at Alexandria University, July 28, 1963)._
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, a just peace, according to this view, means the peace that will reign after the disappearance of Israel.
Click to expand...


(full article online)









						Early examples of how "justice" means "the destruction of Israel"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” This sentence describes a core tenet of Nazi propaganda, but it could also be said to apply to the PA’s repetition of insidious lies and libels.

Palestinian Media Watch exposed one such “big lie” told by Nasser Al-Lahham, a regular host on official PA TV, who whitewashed all Palestinian terrorists, claiming they have “refused to kill children and civilians.” Ignoring the entire history of Palestinian terror, in which thousands of Israeli civilians have been targeted and murdered, Al-Lahham even went so far as to say that Israelis seek to kill Palestinian civilians and children.

As if this wasn’t enough, Al-Lahham repeated his lie the following week in an apparent attempt to cement it in public consciousness:

(full article online)









						PA repeats the Big Lie: “Not a single Palestinian has carried out a single operation in order to kill civilians" | PMW Analysis
					

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” This sentence describes a core tenet of Nazi propaganda, but it could also be said to apply to the PA’s repetition of insidious lies and libels.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The contrast between how Palestinian terrorist Osama Al-Silawi and United States Army Captain Taylor Force received their military ranks provides a clear picture of the moral bankruptcy of the Palestinian Authority.

Speaking recently, released terrorist murderer Al-Silawi thanked PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas for the “military rank” he was given and “salaries” the PA pays him.   






















						Terrorists receiving “military ranks” and officers being murdered – Expressions of the morally bankrupt PA reality | PMW Analysis
					

Speaking recently, released terrorist murderer Al-Silawi thanked PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas for the “military rank” he was given and “salaries” the PA pays him




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

🇵🇸 Ahed Tamimi: One story, multiple narratives | The Listening Post (Feature)​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> 🇵🇸 Ahed Tamimi: One story, multiple narratives | The Listening Post (Feature)​


Just can’t let go of that “thing” for female children?


----------



## Hollie

Gee. It seems that decade after decade the pals find the same dysfunctions in pally’dom. I guess as long as the welfare checks keep rolling in, all is right with the world. 










						Majority of Palestinians believe corruption increased, poll finds
					

The results showed that widespread corruption poses the most important challenge to the Palestinians, followed by the “occupation,” economic issues, and the dispute between the PA and Hamas.




					m.jpost.com
				




The results showed that widespread corruption poses the most important challenge to the Palestinians, followed by the “occupation,” economic issues, and the dispute between the PA and Hamas​

​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Manal Fakhoury - Responsibility of Palestinians in the Diaspora​


----------



## Hollie

Yes. “Cadres of children”.

That is a tactic of sociopaths breeding the next generation of sociopaths. 












						PMW in JPost: The Palestinian Authority's child soldier strategy | PMW Analysis
					

With the PA feeding Palestinian children a steady diet of child soldier promotion, when the PA launches its terror waves it has a cadre of children ready to be called to action.




					palwatch.org
				





PMW in JPost: The Palestinian Authority's child soldier strategy​Itamar Marcus  | Feb 6, 2022


*With the PA feeding Palestinian children a steady diet of child soldier promotion, when the PA launches its terror waves it has a cadre of children ready to be called to action.*​




_GIRLS WITH automatic rifles lead Fatah’s anniversary parade as seen, according to Palestinian Media Watch, on the official Fatah Facebook page._

If you want to know what is really at the heart of the Palestinian conflict with Israel, don’t ask the politicians or the diplomats. Go to the real experts: Palestinian children. Unlike the rest of the world, they’ve been paying close attention to what their leaders and educators have been teaching them – and they’re already signing their lessons in blood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians in Jerusalem reflect on uptick in violence​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


PFFFT! chickenfeed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> PFFFT! chickenfeed.


Chicken feed. That’s rather the description used by the pals for their disposable children tossed into the gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

Well what else. The international community doesn’t have the wherewithal to put an end to the welfare money financing Islamic terrorism.













						PA Spokesman vows to continue “Pay-for-Slay” terror rewards | PMW Analysis
					

PA Spokesman: “The leadership led by His Honor [PA] President [Abbas] will continue the constant and ongoing battle over the salaries of the prisoners and Martyrs”




					palwatch.org
				





PA Spokesman vows to continue “Pay-for-Slay” terror rewards​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 7, 2022

*PA Spokesman: “The leadership led by His Honor [PA] President [Abbas] will continue the constant and ongoing battle over the salaries of the prisoners and Martyrs”*​
Despite international criticism and the PA’s alleged financial crisis, the PA continues to defend their “Pay-for-Slay” rewards, vowing to the imprisoned terrorists and the families of dead terrorist “Martyrs” that they will get paid. Only four days ago, PA Spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina reiterated that the PA, led by Chairman Abbas, will “continue the constant and ongoing battle over the salaries”:


> *Official PA TV newsreader:* “[PA] Presidential Spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina said that *the leadership led by His Honor [PA] President [Mahmoud Abbas] will continue the constant and ongoing battle over the salaries of the prisoners and Martyrs, and what is more we will break bread with them*.”
> [Official PA TV News, Jan. 30, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

Yes you will, Mahmoud. For all the sociopaths you people breed to wage the gee-had, you will be met by a better armed, better trained, motivated military force that has the ability to reign down destruction if you press it. 

How about more photos of the pre-teen female child soldiers you are grooming?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



2% most likely to blow themselves up?


----------



## Hollie

Gee. I wonder what Rashida Tlaib does for a living aside from throwing money at sociopaths?











						Tlaib has paid out $170,000 to firm of anti-Israel activist who supports defunding the police
					

The campaign of "Squad" Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., has paid out $170,000 to an anti-Israel activist who has called Israel an “apartheid state” and has called for defunding the police multiple times.




					www.foxnews.com
				





Tlaib's campaign has paid $147,000 to Unbought Power LLC, a political consulting and advocacy firm run by Rasha Mubarak, since March 2020. Tlaib's leadership PAC, Rooted in Community Leadership, which lists Mubarak as a "treasurer," has paid Unbought Power another $23,000 since October 2020, according to Federal Elections Commission (FEC) filings reviewedby Fox News Digital.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

( Hurray for Pallywood !!!!! )


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> ( Hurray for Pallywood !!!!! )



Maybe it was a spitball?


----------



## Hollie

Read'em and weep.

 The pallys don't want to admit the Arab world really is seeing the benefits of trade and relations with Israel. It's the Pallys who refused another chance to improve their lot in life. 




Palestinian PM Mohammad Shtayyeh: The Arab World Has Not Really Benefited from the Abraham Accords


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who is a civilian?

According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, members of armed terror groups fit that definition.

Palestinian media reported that the terrorists killed were civilians while also reporting that they were members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades:



> Three Palestinian youths were killed on Tuesday evening by the Israeli occupation forces' bullets in the Makhfeya area in the center of Nablus city.
> 
> In turn, the Palestinian Health announced the death of 3 civilians, who were shot by the occupation in Nablus.
> 
> For its part, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the military wing of Fatah movement, mourned on Tuesday its three martyrs after their assassination by the occupation forces in Nablus.
> 
> In its statement, Al-Aqsa Martyrs said: "We mourn our heroic martyrs Ibrahim Al-Nabulsi, Adham Mabrouk and Muhammad Al-Dakhil, after a cowardly assassination carried out by a Zionist special force in the city of Nablus, Jabal Al-Nar."
> 
> The battalions affirm that the blood of their martyrs will not be in vain, and that the response will come and blood will be met with blood."



Israeli media reports that the group had been responsible for multiple recent shooting attacks, and were planning more. 

Keep in mind that these terrorists were not Hamas or Islamic Jihad. They were from Fatah, the organization headed by Palestinian president Abbas, who claimed fourteen years ago that the "military wing" had been dismantled. 

He might not have been telling the truth.

And make no mistake: if the Al Aqsa Brigades were not doing what Abas wanted, they really would have been dismantled. Yet they openly parade in the West Bank, showing their weapons, with no hint that they are not doing exactly what Abbas wants.

And that includes attacking Jews. 









						Three terrorists killed; Palestinian media calls them "civilians" - from Fatah's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Curious. The pal misfits rattle on about “popular resistance” but define those popular resisters as soldiers. 

Much simpler and more accurate to go with “Islamic terrorist” and do the right thing when they try to terrorize anyone. 











						The PA’s responsibility for terror | PMW Analysis
					

One of the main reasons to hold the Palestinian Authority responsible for all Palestinian terror is the fact that the PA refers to all terrorists, irrespective of their terror group affiliations, as its “soldiers” who acted upon its “orders.”




					palwatch.org
				





The PA’s responsibility for terror​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 8, 2022
One of the main reasons to hold the Palestinian Authority responsible for all Palestinian terror is the fact that the PA refers to *all terrorists*, irrespective of their terror group affiliations, as its “soldiers” who acted upon its “orders.” The messaging of the PA is so clear on the subject, that even the terrorists themselves and their families see the terrorists as “soldiers.” PA leaders and terrorists also often invoke different provisions of the _Third Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War_, which applies only to soldiers and lawful combatants, as the basis for the rights and privileges of the terrorist prisoners.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Integrating released terrorists into PA ministries to deceive the international community*​
*Developing a new payment system to circumvent the banks who refuse to provide services to terrorists*​
*Manipulating published PA financial reports to mask the payments*​
(full article online)










						Three ways the PA tried to hide its terror reward payments in 2021 | PMW Analysis
					

In 2021, despite the international pressure and despite its alleged financial difficulties, the Palestinian Authority continued to implement its “Pay-for-Slay” policy, showing particular cunning in its efforts to hide these terror reward payments.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. While this forum is drenched in cut and paste YouTube videos wailing the “apartheid” slogan, an Arab in the Israeli Knesset is hailing pal killers as martyrs.

The Pally killers have been rendered as “non-breathing” so no more gee-had from that bunch.












						Rage as Arab MK Lauds Shechem Terrorists as 'Martyrs' - Hamodia.com
					

Right-wing groups harshly criticized Joint Arab List MK Ahmed Tibi on Wednesday after he condemned the killing of three Palestinian terrorists near



					hamodia.com
				





*YERUSHALAYIM* - 
Right-wing groups harshly criticized Joint Arab List MK Ahmed Tibi on Wednesday after he condemned the killing of three Palestinian terrorists near Shechem on Tuesday, lauding them as “martyrs.”

Right-wing group Im Tirtzu said in a statement, “Without any shame, the supporter of terrorism, Ahmed Tibi, eulogizes the three terrorists from the Knesset podium, calling the IDF’s actions terrorism. Ahmed Tibi, you belong in the Gaza Parliament, not in Israel!”


----------



## Hollie

The numbers are staggering. The Islamic terrorist enterprise, sometimes called, you know, the Islamic Terrorist Enterprise, has a fully developed system of welfare fraud management that includes collection and distribution of money for the maintenance of its enterprise.












						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				





Three ways the PA tried to hide its terror reward payments in 2021​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 9, 2022

*Integrating released terrorists into PA ministries to deceive the international community*​
*Developing a new payment system to circumvent the banks who refuse to provide services to terrorists*​
*Manipulating published PA financial reports to mask the payments*​
Palestinian Media Watch estimates that in 2021 the PA spent no less than 841 million shekels ($270.75 million) paying rewards to terrorists. 600 million shekels ($193.16) were paid to terrorist prisoners and released terrorists and another 241 million shekels ($77.59 million), at least, were paid to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> The numbers are staggering. The Islamic terrorist enterprise, sometimes called, you know, the Islamic Terrorist Enterprise, has a fully developed system of welfare fraud management that includes collection and distribution of money for the maintenance of its enterprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three ways the PA tried to hide its terror reward payments in 2021​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 9, 2022
> 
> *Integrating released terrorists into PA ministries to deceive the international community*​
> *Developing a new payment system to circumvent the banks who refuse to provide services to terrorists*​
> *Manipulating published PA financial reports to mask the payments*​
> Palestinian Media Watch estimates that in 2021 the PA spent no less than 841 million shekels ($270.75 million) paying rewards to terrorists. 600 million shekels ($193.16) were paid to terrorist prisoners and released terrorists and another 241 million shekels ($77.59 million), at least, were paid to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorists.


P F Tinmore posted:  

Yes. It's funny that Islamic terrorists are payed by Islamic terrorist syndicates to kill themselves.


----------



## Hollie

It's comical, in a mordant sort of way, that the Islamic terrorist franchises have an entire vocabulary of slogans for their various syndicates. "Brigades", "Popular Fronts", "General Command", "Democratic Front" (<---- that's a good one), Pally "Liberation Front", and the list goes on. 

Directly and indirectly, they're financed in part by western welfare.











						Soldiers kill 3 Palestinian terror suspects in West Bank operation
					

Security forces say men were members of cell that carried out shooting attacks against Israelis in recent weeks; gunmen belonged to Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades




					www.google.com
				




Security forces say men were members of cell that carried out shooting attacks against Israelis in recent weeks; gunmen belonged to Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are a bit miffed that the anti gee-had forces put an end to 'brigade' fun and games. 











						Abbas’ Fatah vows revenge for death of 3 Fatah terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

“Fatah has instructed all its activists to escalate the activities of confrontation with this tyrannical occupation.”




					palwatch.org
				




Abbas’ Fatah vows revenge for death of 3 Fatah terrorists​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 10, 2022
During the last few weeks, a Palestinian terror cell had carried out a number of shooting attacks against Israeli targets. After the Israeli authorities identified the terrorists as members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade - the internationally designated terror wing of PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party - and received intelligence that the terrorists intended to carry out an imminent additional terror attack, Israel sent special forces to the city of Nablus to intercept them. Three terrorists, armed with two semi-automatic M-16 rifles, were killed in the ensuing confrontation.

Responding to the incident, representatives of Fatah condemned the “assassination,” declaring that "what was before it is not what will be after it”:


> “The Fatah Movement’s Nablus branch held the right-wing occupation government responsible for the escalation against our people and against the Nablus district specifically, with its latest incident being the crime of assassinating three Fatah fighters in Nablus.
> In a statement issued today, Wednesday [Feb. 8, 2022], Fatah emphasized that the assassination crime is a severe escalation, and that it *constitutes a turning point for everything regarding the escalation of the confrontation with the occupation, as what was before it is not what will be after it*, and no one can turn back the hands of time.”
> [Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, Feb. 8, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

This isn't your daddy's Imam. 

Another sociopath, (this one a 'religious' figure), ranting about children and Islamic conduct. 

In the territories occupied by pals, enforcing Islamic conduct tends to dramatically shorten the lifespans of children. 


Palestinian Imam: Democracies Like Sweden Take Children from Parents who Enforce Islamic Conduct​


----------



## Hollie

The next generation of losers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

rom the official Palestinian Wafa news agency on Wednesday:



> The Palestinian Central Council (PCC) affirmed this evening the suspension of the recognition of the State of Israel until it recognizes the State of Palestine on the borders of June 4, 1967, with East Jerusalem as its capital, and halts settlement activity, and affirmed the cessation of security coordination in all its forms.


Hmmm, this sounds familiar. Oh yes, from October 2018:



> A top Palestinian body authorised the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) to suspend recognition of Israel and stop security coordination with Tel Aviv.
> 
> The Palestinian Central Council (PCC) – a body of the PLO – said the suspensions should be in place until Israel recognises the Palestinian state based on pre-1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, Palestine’s official Wafa news agency reported.



Similarly, in 2015, with hilarious explanatory text:




> Leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) have called for ending security coordination with Israel.
> 
> The PLO’s Central Council (PCC), the second-highest Palestinian decision-making body, took the decision on Thursday in the light of rising tensions with Israel.
> 
> Launched under the 1993 Oslo autonomy accords which founded the Palestinian Authority (PA), the coordination involves the sharing of intelligence and is considered crucial for Israel to monitor the Hamas movement.
> 
> It is not clear if Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas will implement the resolution by the Council, but the decisions it takes are usually binding on the PA.
> 
> Council member Mustapha Barghouthi told the AFP news agency that decisions were binding “because it was the PLO which created it [the PA] and which signed the Oslo accords”.



It's adorable that people pretend that all these legislative bodies of the PLO and PA and Fatah actually have some sort of power to make decisions. 

(full article online)









						Oh noes! The PLO suspended recognition of Israel! (Again!)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Soon to be Canonized  )


----------



## Hollie

The next generation of sociopaths.

The international community keeps the welfare flowing which perpetuates this.


----------



## Hollie

If you want to create generation after generation of sociopaths, get’em while they’re young. Those pre-teen females, too.

Islamism has a long, lurid history of exploiting female children and the islamists with an entire UN welfare agency at their disposal are quick to continue that practice. 











						"10,000 children are trained each year in Gaza terrorist summer camps” - Coalition to save Palestinian Child Soldiers
					

Annual 'Palestinian Child Soldier's Week' begins today, aims to stop western funding of NGOs linked to terrorist organisations who put children at risk.




					www.einnews.com
				





_Annual 'Palestinian Child Soldier's Week' begins today, aims to stop western funding of NGOs linked to terrorist organisations who put children at risk._




Girls attending a PFLP 'summer camp' in Gaza

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM, February 7, 2022 /EINPresswire.com/ -- According to the Coalition to save Palestinian Child Soldiers Coalition (CPCS), whose annual awareness campaign takes place this week (February 7 - 13th), "The ruling power of the Gaza Strip, the terrorist organisation Hamas, has child training camps in which it trainschildren as auxiliaries and militia members. Approximately 10,000 children and teens are trained each year with terrorist “summer camps” which are grueling basic training boot camps. There, children learn combat manoeuvres, weapon operation, and terrorist tactics."


----------



## Hollie

Really incredible that the west stills finances the Pal, UN funded welfare program and the Pal child abuse / exploitation. 











						NGOs call on US group to stop funding use of Palestinian child soldiers
					

CAF America provides funds to Palestinian NGOs with ties to the PFLP terrorist organization.




					m.jpost.com
				










HAMAS SUPPORTERS attend an anti-Israel rally in the northern Gaza Strip on Sunday.
(photo credit: MOHAMMED SALEM/REUTERS)
CAF America provides funds to Palestinian NGOs with ties to the PFLP terrorist organization​


----------



## Hollie

I would hope that more nations which contribute to pal Islamic terrorist welfare will reconsider. 











						Israel, Germany to discuss fund cuts for Palestinian NGOs
					

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch at the time called the bans 'an attack by the Israeli government on the international human rights movement'.




					english.alaraby.co.uk
				




Israel and Germany will discuss means of keeping money away from six Palestinian groups Tel Aviv banned last year to allow funding to proceed for programmes they were intended to run.


----------



## Hollie

“Proud” of sociopaths who belong to an Islamic terrorist franchise that exists because of a UN funded welfare program. 











						Top Fatah official: PA is very weak; Fatah ‘proud’ of its armed wing
					

Says the authority has been weakened as a result of rampant corruption, the absence of a political horizon, and the widening gap between its leaders and the Palestinians.




					m.jpost.com
				





Top Fatah official to ‘Post’: PA is very weak; Fatah ‘proud’ of its armed wing​By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 
Published: FEBRUARY 12, 2022 19:19
Updated: FEBRUARY 12, 2022 20:52


----------



## Hollie

Game on for Pally pre-teens?

With the Emir of Pally’land exhorting his minions to “dish out to them twice as much as we’ve received.”, that might be a rallying call for Mahmoud’s sacrificial boys and girls to take one for the gee-had. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				





Abbas openly calls on Palestinians to murder Israelis​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 13, 2022
After Israel killed three terrorists who had already carried out a number of terror attacks and were planning another imminent attack, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas called on Palestinians to “dish out to them twice as much as we’ve received.”


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

There's a bit of a kerfuffle taking place in that little slice of absurdity called the Islamic terrorist occupied territories. 

As you might expect, it's just a total mess. The Emir of West Bankistan is apparently in control of something called the _Palestinian Central Council_ (PCC) (whatever that is), the something to which he made appointments as favors to those loyal to him. 

Among a host of phony, non-functioning agencies to include the PCC, there is the alphabet soup compilation of faux agencies to include the PLO, PLC, PNC and collections of money laundering entities existing on letterhead but with no physical address. 












						Palestinian terror groups say 'no' to Abbas loyalists' appointments
					

Their promotion is seen by some Palestinians as an attempt by the PA president to determine the identity of the future leaders of the Palestinians.




					www.jpost.com
				




Three Palestinian groups – Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) have announced that they do not recognize the appointment of loyalists of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to senior positions in the PLO.


“No recognition of, and no legitimacy to, the appointments announced by the Palestinian Central Council (PCC) during its illegitimate meeting on Sunday and Monday,” the groups said in a joint statement.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Oh Ramadan, Oh Ramadan...... )

The tensions in Sheikh Jarrah come amid heightened tensions in the West Bank after the assassination of three al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terrorists in Nablus last week, as well as threats of an escalation in Israeli prisons due to Palestinian complaints against the Israel Prison Service.


Palestinian prisoner groups have warned that they would escalate measures against the prison service due to alleged violations of agreements reached after the Gilboa Prison escape. The Supreme Leadership Council of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad's prisoners stated on Saturday that the "third intifada" has begun and was sparked from within the prisons. The council added that, for the first time, all the factions' prisoners are united in clashing with Israel.


The council additionally warned against refusing the demands of Palestinian prisoners, saying "wait for the month of Ramadan for the major confrontation."

(full article online)









						Sheikh Jarrah clashes: 'Israel playing with fire,' Hamas warns
					

Tensions in Sheikh Jarrah were cited by Palestinian factions as one of the reasons for rocket fire towards Jerusalem last May.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Lebanon's State Shura Council decided this month to reverse an order issued in December allowing Palestinian refugees to work in trade-union regulated professions, after complaints that the order would encroach on the rights of Lebanese professionals and claims that the order was trying to pave the way for naturalizing Palestinian refugees.


The reversal was made after the council accepted an appeal by the Maronite League, the head of the league, Neamatallah Abi Nasr, announced on Thursday, according to Lebanon's National News Agency (NNA).





In December, amended regulations published by the country's Labor Ministry stated that Palestinians who were born in Lebanon and officially registered in the records of the Lebanese Interior Ministry will be allowed to work in professions that are in general limited to Lebanese citizens only, such as law, engineering and medicine, among others.


The appeal filed by the Maronite League claimed that the labor minister had overstepped his authority when he issued a decision allowing Palestinians to access previously barred professions. The appeal had claimed that the decision violated the country's constitution, adding that the league was blocking attempts to "change the modern and historic face of Lebanon and attempting to impose a new demographic status quo," according to _L'Orient Le'Jour_.



The Hamas movement in Lebanon condemned the decision to reverse the order on Saturday, saying that it "raises fundamental questions related to its background and timing, and harms Lebanese-Palestinian relations.”

(full article online)









						Palestinian professionals banned from work in Lebanon for second time
					

The labor minister had decided in December to allow Palestinians to work in previously barred professions.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

After Israel killed three terrorists who had already carried out a number of terror attacks and were planning another imminent attack, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas called on Palestinians to “dish out to them twice as much as we’ve received.”

When calling to “dish out to them twice as much as we’ve received,” Abbas is literally calling for the murder of at least 6 Israelis! Openly calling for the murder of Israelis in response to Israel neutralizing three terrorists, is something Abbas reserves for his Arabic speaking audience.

In a speech broadcast during a memorial event for the three terrorists, Abbas rewrote history, whitewashing the terrorists and their actions, claiming that the call for revenge was justified because “We are the ones who were attacked. We didn’t attack anyone”: 












(full article online)









						Abbas openly calls on Palestinians to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

After Israel killed three terrorists who had already carried out a number of terror attacks and were planning another imminent attack, Palestinian Authority Chairman called on Palestinians to “dish out to them twice as much as we’ve taken.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. It seems incitement is a reason for Islamic terrorist attacks.

I suppose that's a reference to the near daily incitement that oozes from the Gaza and West Bank Islamic terrorist franchises. 

The things you learn on the interweb.











						Incitement behind rise in Palestinian terror attacks
					

Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank.




					www.jpost.com
				




Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada (uprising) against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank. They want to take the fight against Israel to the streets of Jerusalem and the West Bank, while keeping the situation in the Gaza Strip calm.


----------



## Likkmee

Hollie said:


> Gee, whiz. It seems incitement is a reason for Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> I suppose that's a reference to the near daily incitement that oozes from the Gaza and West Bank Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> The things you learn on the interweb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incitement behind rise in Palestinian terror attacks
> 
> 
> Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada (uprising) against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank. They want to take the fight against Israel to the streets of Jerusalem and the West Bank, while keeping the situation in the Gaza Strip calm.


They're going to run out of rocks !
BUT
 They have great camo




Boycott Denny's !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gee, whiz. It seems incitement is a reason for Islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> I suppose that's a reference to the near daily incitement that oozes from the Gaza and West Bank Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> The things you learn on the interweb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incitement behind rise in Palestinian terror attacks
> 
> 
> Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada (uprising) against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank. They want to take the fight against Israel to the streets of Jerusalem and the West Bank, while keeping the situation in the Gaza Strip calm.


Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

The pallys sure like their conspiracy theories. 


British-Palestinian Journalist Abdel-Bari Atwan: U.S. Did Not Really Kill ISIS Leader Al-Qurayashi, Just As It Did Not Kill Bin Laden Or Al-Baghdadi; Their Bodies Were Never Shown









						British-Palestinian Journalist Abdel-Bari Atwan: U.S. Did Not Really Kill ISIS Leader Al-Qurayashi, Just As It Did Not Kill Bin Laden Or Al-Baghdadi; Their Bodies Were Never Shown
					

British-Palestinian journalist Abdel-Bari Atwan said in a February 5, 2022 show on NBN TV (Lebanon) that he believes tha...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

Likkmee said:


> They're going to run out of rocks !
> BUT
> They have great camo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boycott Denny's !!!


I'd prefer to boycott islamic terrorists and their enablers.


----------



## Hollie

A 'celebration' of sorts for losers and misfits.












						Fatah Facebook celebrates 51 years of terror with image of rock-thrower | PMW Translations
					

Image and text posted on the official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement on Dec. 27, 2015 Text: “Long live the Palestinian National Liberation Movement – Fatah, guardian of the national enterprise and the one that fired the first bullet in the history of the Palestinian revolution” The image...




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah Facebook celebrates 51 years of terror with image of rock-thrower​




Image and text posted on the official Facebook page of the Fatah Movement on Dec. 27, 2015

*Text:* “Long live the Palestinian National Liberation Movement – Fatah, guardian of the national enterprise and the one that fired the first bullet in the history of the Palestinian revolution”


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Money not going to help the needy in Gaza )

It’s the latest such production by the media arm of Hamas, which has invested heavily in its offerings despite an Israeli-Egyptian blockade on Gaza since the Islamists seized power in 2006.

The shows are aired on Hamas-run TV, and “Fist of the Free” will debut during the upcoming month of Ramadan, when viewership soars after the dawn-to-dusk fast and networks across the Muslim world debut big-budget offerings. Ramadan begins on April 2.

Hamas hopes to gain a wider viewership by offering the rights for free to channels in Syria, Lebanon, Algeria and Turkey. But it will struggle to break through the Ramadan lineup, when production houses across the region crank out top-quality dramas with marquee actors.

“Fist of the Free” is also likely to face barriers online, as Facebook, YouTube and streaming services censor content perceived as inciting violence.

Last year, two Saudi specials during Ramadan broke new ground in normalizing Israel and Jews.
------
In 2017, it built an entire movie set based on Jerusalem’s Old City, including a replica of the Dome of the Rock — part of a holy site that is sacred to Jews and Muslims and has been a persistent flashpoint for Palestinian violence.

Al-Attar declined to say how much was being spent on the latest series, which he said was funded by donations.

There were no cranes on set, so overhead shots were taken by drone or by a cameraman sitting on another man’s shoulders. Crew members used their camera batteries to detonate mock explosives. The filming took place at a Hamas military base near the frontier.

The cast is recruited locally, from a population that has had little contact with Israelis since the Hamas takeover and the tightening of the blockade.

Zohair al-Bebisi, a 64-year-old who has never set foot in Israel, was cast as David, an Israeli commando tasked with sneaking into Gaza to recover high-tech equipment captured by wily Hamas militants.

“It’s the first time I play the role of an Israeli intelligence officer,” al-Belbisi said as he rested between takes. He described his character as “very cunning,” with a knack for getting out of dangerous situations — until his luck runs out.

Spoiler alert: David is killed by friendly fire.

The propaganda goes largely unchecked inside Gaza, where Hamas does not tolerate dissent. Since taking power in 2006, Hamas has jailed journalists and activists, banned newspapers, shuttered rival TV stations and restricted movie screenings.

(full article online)









						Don’t Call it ‘Fauda’: Will Hamas Film Get Picked Up by Netflix? | United with Israel
					

Will 'Fist of the Free' manage to compete with marquee entertainment traditionally aired during Ramadan?




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The PA turns sick imprisoned terrorist responsible for the murder of 7 into a role model for Palestinian society *​
*“We salute all the noble heroes”
– Abbas’ advisor *​
*“Rise and restore the pride to the gleaming ax”
- PA TV host recites poem for “hero” Abu Hmeid *​
*“Make sounds of joy, O rifle”
- Fatah and PFLP in honor of murderer, while gun shots are fired in the air*​
*“With bullets he writes an inscription of glory”
- PA TV song *​
*“Hero” and “lion”
- PA TV *​
*PA about terror mom:
“Um Nasser Abu Hmeid is the Palestinian woman of the hour. [This is] not only because she nursed her children with the milk of pure heroism, honor, and patriotism until they became unequal knights in the paths of resistance”*​
*PA libel: Israel “wants to murder” the imprisoned terrorists, deliberately making their illnesses worse*​

(full article online)









						The making of a new terrorist folk hero – The PA at work | PMW Analysis
					

The PA turns sick imprisoned terrorist responsible for the murder of 7 into a role model for Palestinian society




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

The Pal hero worship of Islamic terrorists just put them a bit more on the fringe.







__





						Australia says it will list Hamas as ‘terrorist’ group
					





					www.msn.com
				




Australia had previously listed Hamas’s al-Qassam Brigades military wing as a “terror” group in 2003, but the new designation which will come into force in April, will list the organisation in its entirety, including its political wing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Designated Terrorist Group
※→ Hollie, et al,

I am not sure this really means anything anymore.



Hollie said:


> The Pal hero worship of Islamic terrorists just put them a bit more on the fringe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia says it will list Hamas as ‘terrorist’ group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia had previously listed Hamas’s al-Qassam Brigades military wing as a “terror” group in 2003, but the new designation which will come into force in April, will list the organisation in its entirety, including its political wing.


*(COMMENT)*

As an example, the International Criminal Court (ICC) acts as an advocate for HAMAS.  The ICC has had access to Palestinian terrorist operations information since the ICC went into effect.  Yet, the ICC is acting as the advocate that will stir the investigation away from West Bank terrorism and Gaza Strip terrorism.



			
				Times of Israel said:
			
		

> In February, a pre-trial chamber of the ICC determined that The Hague has jurisdiction to open a criminal investigation into Israel and the Palestinians for war crimes alleged to have taken place in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, paving the way for a full investigation after a five-year preliminary probe opened by Bensouda.
> *SOURCE*:  _*Focus: Crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court *_that are alleged to have been committed in the Situation since 13 June 2014, the date to which reference is made in the Referral of the Situation to the Office of the Prosecutor.



Chief Prosecutor Bensouda promised to investigate "impartially and objectively."  We shall see how many HAMAS rocket attacks are reported in the findings or the investigation.  It will be interesting to see how many of the incidents involved the use of cover and concealment launch sites from densely populated civilian areas; using the population as hostages.  It will be interesting to see how many incidents of criminal incitement to violence the Investigators report.

In this regard,* ICC Prosecutor has previously identified in her request for a jurisdictional ruling* a reasonable basis to believe crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court were allegedly committed by members of the Israeli Defense Forces, Israeli authorities, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups.

It will be very, very interesting to see how many times the ICC Investigation cites the authority to prosecute under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Just My Thoughts,





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Jazeera reports:


> The Australian government has said it planned to list the whole of the Palestinian movement Hamas to its list of outlawed “terrorist” organisations.
> 
> Australia had previously listed Hamas’s al-Qassam Brigades military wing as a “terror” group in 2003, but the new designation which will come into force in April, will list the organisation in its entirety, including its political wing.
> 
> “The views of Hamas and the violent extremist groups listed today are deeply disturbing, and there is no place in Australia for their hateful ideologies,” said Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews.
> 
> The designation will place restrictions on financing or providing other support to Hamas – with certain offences carrying a 25-year prison sentence.
> 
> “It is vital that our laws target not only terrorist acts and terrorists, but also the organisations that plan, finance and carry out these acts,” Andrews said.


 Hamas denounced the move on its website:
------
At the very same time, the Hamas website has an article praising their late engineer who pioneered designing missiles aimed at civilians - the very definition of terrorism:

(full article online)









						Hamas denounces Australia designating it a terror group - even as it praises terrorism
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Kweansmom asked me to check out this photograph of a man bathing his kids in Gaza.





I dug a little and found this article about the photo and photographer:




> In an interview with Independent Journal Review, [Emad] Nassar said he captured the shot on June 26, 2015, while he was taking pictures of the conflict in Gaza.
> 
> He was walking around the apartment complex when he suddenly saw the family and snapped the photo. It was not staged.
> 
> The only information he knows about the family in the photograph are the names of the people and how they’re related; Salem Saoody, 30, daughter Layan (left), and his niece Shaymaa (right).



OK, there are a few points right off the bat.

The photo was taken in the Shejaiya neighborhood of Gaza, which was a Hamas stronghold during the 2014 war. Hamas purposefully didn't rebuild the area for well over a year as it would show it off to clueless Europeans about how evil Israel was to bomb Hamas targets purposefully placed in a residential area. 

As we can see, photographers loved this neighborhood and continued to take staged photos over a year after the war. After all, the destruction was photogenic and served a wonderful propaganda purpose, even as tens of thousands of homes in other sections of Gaza were rebuilt.

Now, how likely is it that this photo was not staged?

Let us take at face value that a loving father would want to give his daughter and niece a bath or have them splash around in the equivalent of a kiddie pool in a clearly dangerous room.

A corner bathtub holds at least 50 gallons/200 liters. This photo was taken at least on the third floor of the building. There is obviously no running water there. This means that according to the photographer, the father carried a great deal of water up and down three flights of dangerous stairs alone, several trips, yet not bothering to clear a path to the tub he was filling up and preferring instead to step over rubble.  He then asked his daughter and niece to walk up the same path, on top of the rubble. 

Now, what if the father had help - say, the photographer Emad Nassar, helping him carry the water with the intent to stage an award winning photograph? Seems somewhat more likely, although it would still be a lot of work. 

What if there was at least a third person there - say, Emad's brother Wissam, whom he doesn't mention but who is also a photographer, and who also won awards for his versions of the same scene at the same time?





Suddenly the idea that Emad was wandering around the neighborhood and stumbled onto this scene on the third floor of a teetering building seems a lot less likely. 

The brothers seem to have found other similar scenes of ordinary Gazans just hanging out in ruins a few floors up in very photogenic ruins. 

Emad:


(full article online)









						Some Pallywood from 2015
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas leaders are not sitting among their people in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. It is easier and safer for them to call on the Palestinians to send their children to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel while they are relaxing in the comfort of their hotel rooms, villas and gyms in the Qatari capital of Doha. The Hamas leaders are not going to send their own sons and daughters to engage in the jihad against Israel.
The Iranian-backed Hamas and PIJ are the two largest groups in the Gaza Strip. Instead of investing their resources and efforts in improving the living conditions of their people, the Hamas and PIJ leaders have brought on them one disaster after the other. They have brought war and destruction on the people of the Gaza Strip by firing thousands of rockets towards Israel, forcing Israel to fire back to defend itself.
Instead of building schools and hospitals, the Hamas and PIJ leaders have chosen to invest tens of millions of dollars in a network of tunnels along Gaza's border with Israel, to attack and kill Jews.
The leaders of Hamas and PIJ left scorched earth behind them and chose to lead luxurious lives in Doha, Istanbul and Beirut. Strangely, however, instead of hiding their faces in shame, they are calling from their gyms, jets, and jacuzzis for the Palestinians to pursue the fight against Israel.
Some Palestinians, it seems, refuse to be duped by the deception of the Hamas and PIJ leaders. These Palestinians have finally realized that their leaders care only about their personal interest and the well-being of their families and are enjoying the good life in Doha and Istanbul.
Above all, the Palestinians need to boot out the thieves who masquerade as their leaders, the butchers responsible for the deaths of the young men and women in the Hamas-incited jihad against Israel. The Palestinians will never move forward with their lives as long as their leaders are relaxing in hot tubs in Qatar and Turkey while sending them orders to bathe themselves in yet more Jewish blood.

(full article online)









						The Palestinian Leaders' Five-Star Jihad
					

Hamas leaders are not sitting among their people in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. It is easier and safer for them to call on the Palestinians to send their children to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel while they are relaxing in the comfort




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Australia announced its intention to designate the entirety of the Hamas movement as a terrorist organization, Australian media reported on Thursday. The designation will come into effect in the coming weeks, Army Radio noted.


Australia had previously designated Hamas’s Izzadin al-Qassam Brigades as a terror group, but the revised labeling will include all other parts of the Palestinian faction that controls the Gaza Strip.


Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and his Australian counterpart, Scott Morrison, discussed the designation at the COP26 2021 UN Climate Change Conference last year. With this move, Australia is following in the footsteps of the United Kingdom, which applied the same designation in November.

(full article online)









						Australia to list entirety of Hamas as terrorist organization
					

Australia is following in the footsteps of the United Kingdom with this move. The UK made an identical designation back in November.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

__





						Loading…
					





					twitter.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Australian government announced Wednesday that it has defined the Hamas organization, including its political arm, as a terrorist organization. The Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’ military wing, was already proscribed in Australia, and now the organization in its entirety will be defined as a terror organization.

However, the real severe blow now hitting Hamas is Turkey’s intention to expel Hamas military operatives from its territory, according to a report by the Turkish newspaper Hurriyet. Turkey has informed Hamas that its military operatives must leave the country and the military assistance to Hamas from Turkey will be stopped, but it will allow Hamas’ political activity.

(full article online)









						Turkey to Expel Members of Hamas’ Military Wing – Report
					

Hamas will be able continue their "political" activities in Turkey.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

_n a Friday, February 11, 2022 sermon at the Surda Mosque in the West Bank, Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram, the head of the Shari’a Court of Appeals in Nablus, extolled martyrdom and described rewards granted by Allah to martyrs. Dr. Al-Qaram delivered his sermon on the backdrop of Israeli forces having killed three Fatah terrorists in Nablus earlier that week. Dr. Al-Qaram criticized Arab countries for normalizing relations with the "enemies of Allah," and he said that the State of Israel was built on a foundation of "terrorism, racism, and extremism." In addition, Dr. Al-Qaram quoted several verses from the Quran in which Jews are referred to as evil corrupters. The sermon was aired on Palestine TV.

(full article and videos online)_










						Palestinian Official Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram Extols Martyrdom In Friday Sermon Following IDF Killing Of 3 Fatah Terrorists: Israelis Are The Enemies Of Allah; They Terrorize, Commit Crimes Against Our People
					






					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Designated Terrorist Group
> ※→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> I am not sure this really means anything anymore.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As an example, the International Criminal Court (ICC) acts as an advocate for HAMAS.  The ICC has had access to Palestinian terrorist operations information since the ICC went into effect.  Yet, the ICC is acting as the advocate that will stir the investigation away from West Bank terrorism and Gaza Strip terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Chief Prosecutor Bensouda promised to investigate "impartially and objectively."  We shall see how many HAMAS rocket attacks are reported in the findings or the investigation.  It will be interesting to see how many of the incidents involved the use of cover and concealment launch sites from densely populated civilian areas; using the population as hostages.  It will be interesting to see how many incidents of criminal incitement to violence the Investigators report.
> 
> In this regard,* ICC Prosecutor has previously identified in her request for a jurisdictional ruling* a reasonable basis to believe crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court were allegedly committed by members of the Israeli Defense Forces, Israeli authorities, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups.
> 
> It will be very, very interesting to see how many times the ICC Investigation cites the authority to prosecute under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Just My Thoughts,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


I do agree that the move by Australia will have little, if any impact. And definitely, the ICC is entirely aligned with the Hamas regime, and are ready to support / favor it in spite of the human rights violations committed by Hamas against both Israel and the pals.. We can expect the UN to go about assembling “confirming prognoses” from ''experts'' such as Richard Falk and Virginia Tilley, while proclaiming with ever more authority the rights of Islamic terrorists to legitimately wage war on a sovereign nation without penalty. Some of the UN quasi-experts will defend the islamic terrorist regimes as the oppressed masses which is why we should make allowances for their behaviors.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In a Times of Israel post published earlier in the week, we argued that, in addition to the countless factual errors in Amnesty International’s report accusingIsrael of ‘apartheid’, the NGO’s failure to even note decisions by Palestinian leaders that have perpetuated the conflict demonstrates that what they’re engaged in is not neutral ‘human rights’ advocacy, but anti-Israel advocacy.

The denial of agency to Palestinians was, we argued, evident in the report’s erasure of the wars and terror – and the Palestinian leadership’s repeated rejection of peace offers – which significantly contributed to the current territorial, political and security situation.

The erasure of Palestinian responsibility and agency – be it in the ‘human rights’ community or the mainstream media – not only grossly distorts our understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but also represents what’s been referred to as “the bigotry of low expectations” or, within another political context, “Woke Racism”.  Both of these represent ways of describing the refusal to expect minorities, or any group deemed oppressed or disadvantaged, to meet the same standards of moral behaviour set for most people.

This isn’t to deny that such groups face real discrimination, only that they, like all individuals, have choices, and to judge their behavior by lower standards than we judge others denies their very humanity – racism in its most basic form.

So, what can Palestinians – and, especially, Palestinian leaders – do to contribute to peace and end the occupation? The sad fact is that this question is rarely even asked.

So, whilst the list below isn’t an exhaustive one, it represents a crucial paradigm by which to view, and judge commentary about, Palestinians and the choices they make.

These ideas also serve as a corrective to the historical amnesia which frames Israeli skepticism over Palestinian intentions – based on the trauma of the 2nd Intifada, frustration over the PA’s rejection of peace offers and the Palestinian culture of incitement – as _Israeli_ intransigence, the society’s ‘move right’ or increased racism.


The Palestinian Authority can hold elections for the first time in 16 years.
Palestinians can advocate for such elections to be held.
The Palestinian Authority can begin the process of building transparent democratic institutions, and a healthy civil society, in preparation for statehood.
Palestinians can advocate for this process to begin.
The Palestinians Authority can cease promoting and incentivisingterrorism.
Palestinians can advocate for the PA to cease such toxic propaganda.
The Palestinian Authority can cease promoting antisemitism.
Palestinians can reject antisemitism.
The Palestinian Authority can announce they’re open to peace talks with Israel without pre-conditions.
Palestinians can advocate for the PA to make such an announcement.
The Palestinian Authority can encourage co-existence projects with Israelis
Palestinians can volunteer to participate in such projects.
Palestinians, of all stripes, can reject Hamas and all such groups which represent an immutable obstacle to peace.

(full article online)









						Amnesty's 'woke' racism, part 2: How Palestinians can promote peace
					

In a Times of Israel post published earlier in the week, we argued that, in addition to the countless factual errors in Amnesty International's report accusing




					camera-uk.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Introducing Dr. Maha Nassar, 2022 Inaugural Fellow at the Foundation for Middle East Peace​


----------



## Hollie

I suppose some of them breed for one purpose.












						“Behind every Martyr there’s a mighty mother!” – The PA’s twisted ideal mother | PMW Analysis
					

A recent incident exemplified a twisted aspect of the ideal mother that the PA has encouraged and cultivated for decades.




					palwatch.org
				




''Behind every Martyr there’s a mighty mother!” – The PA’s twisted ideal mother​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 17, 2022

*“They confront death in a manner that amazed everyone, and despite the pain and the tears, gusts of joy burst forth, as if they were laughter rising from the rubble. With roses, with fragrant herbs, with sounds of joy – this is how the mothers accompanied their sons and sons of the Fatah Movement to Heaven”*​
*“As is fitting for the mothers of the Martyrs, [she] accompanied her son to the wedding. She shed two rose tears and did not seclude herself in clothes of mourning. She marched at the front of the participants in the funeral and called out loudly: ‘With spirit, with blood, we will redeem you Martyr’”*​
*“She made sounds of joy while making the sign of victory. With determination and resolution she raised his rifle and shot a bullet of joy and pride, while saying: ‘Today is the wedding day of my beloved, give me blessings and well-wishes’”*​


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Knowledge Entails Responsibility": Introducing Jehad Abusalim, 2022 FMEP Fellow​


----------



## Hollie

It appears that taking one for the glory of the islamic terrorist gee-had is big business in the territories occupied by the Abbas misfits.










						Three ways the PA tried to hide its terror reward payments in 2021 | PMW Analysis
					

In 2021, despite the international pressure and despite its alleged financial difficulties, the Palestinian Authority continued to implement its “Pay-for-Slay” policy, showing particular cunning in its efforts to hide these terror reward payments.




					palwatch.org
				




Three ways the PA tried to hide its terror reward payments in 2021​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 9, 2022

*Integrating released terrorists into PA ministries to deceive the international community*​
*Developing a new payment system to circumvent the banks who refuse to provide services to terrorists*​
*Manipulating published PA financial reports to mask the payments*​
Palestinian Media Watch estimates that in 2021 the PA spent no less than 841 million shekels ($270.75 million) paying rewards to terrorists. 600 million shekels ($193.16) were paid to terrorist prisoners and released terrorists and another 241 million shekels ($77.59 million), at least, were paid to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Apartheid Introduction - Susan Abulhawa​


----------



## Hollie

I have to wonder if Qatar is dumping cash on the pals in a desperate attempt to try and keep them in the Sunni fold. The gulf Arabs have some real concerns with the pals being a conduit for Shia influence in the region so maybe Qatari cash is a negotiating ploy. 










						Qatar is financing Palestinian terror and trying to hide it - opinion
					

Qatar has gone to great lengths to whitewash this reality.




					m.jpost.com
				




Qatari cash pays for weapons and explosives used in terror attacks against Israeli citizens; Qatari money has financed the construction of an extensively elaborate underground network of terror tunnels that rival some of the most efficient subway systems in the world; money that was supposed to be used for concrete and steel which should have been earmarked for homes and hospitals was diverted to build a subterranean city to move terrorists and store weapons.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


>


“Night Disturbance Unit”

That may be the label applied to disposable pal children. Reduce them to nothing more than an assembly piece on a production line.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBTOPIC*: Terrorism Camouflaged as Patriotism
※→ Sixties Fan (*Posting #21779*), et al,

*Criticism of the International Courts System​*
The Hostile Arab Palestinians cannot be both heroic and criminals at the same time.  I am not an attorney, but merely an example of a person who has lost the trust and confidence in the leadership from the Hague.



			
				MEMRI said:
			
		

> Al-Jazeera Network Report on “Night Disturbance Unit” in Jenin Refugee Camp: We Prepare Explosive Devices and Hurl Them at Israeli Soldiers #Palestinians #Fatah #Terrorism


*(COMMENT)*

International law essentially says that Arab Palestinians CAN NOT be "following the law" and "be prosecuted for the same acts of violence at the same time.  (I really do not care what those fools in the Hague say.)

The general public represented by the members of the United Nations should have confidence in the international court system that the court will speak up if the law is being misrepresented by international political leaders.  To avoid misunderstandings and instill trust and confidence in the international court system, the court should speak up promptly and fully to correct misinterpretations, in order to better serve the greater international community and to stave off unnecessary criticism of the courts, and to prevent erosion of the public trust and confidence in the system.  This is not the practice of the Hague.  The international system will allow the public flaunting of practices that are clearly questionable.

◈   The Hague will give what appears to be tacit approval for hostile interests to commit offenses that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them without fear of prosecution.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership forums to prompt propaganda for the continuation of a conflict.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to advocate for racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or further violence.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to publicly say (without challenge) it is a "human right" for Palestinians to kill Jews.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to further advocate for Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to further hostilities, the purpose of which is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to in accordance with the United Nations Charter.​​The International Courts must take corrective action, when it becomes obvious that the International leadership is intentionally misrepresenting the legal intent of the law and deliberately intending to deceive the general international population.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> *SUBTOPIC*: Terrorism Camouflaged as Patriotism
> ※→ Sixties Fan (*Posting #21779*), et al,
> 
> 
> * Criticism of the International Courts System *​
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians cannot be both heroic and criminals at the same time.  I am not an attorney, but merely an example of a person who has lost the trust and confidence in the leadership from the Hague.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> International law essentially says that Arab Palestinians CAN NOT be "following the law" and "be prosecuted for the same acts of violence at the same time.  (I really do not care what those fools in the Hague say.)
> 
> The general public represented by the members of the United Nations should have confidence in the international court system that the court will speak up if the law is being misrepresented by international political leaders.  To avoid misunderstandings and instill trust and confidence in the international court system, the court should speak up promptly and fully to correct misinterpretations, in order to better serve the greater international community and to stave off unnecessary criticism of the courts, and to prevent erosion of the public trust and confidence in the system.  This is not the practice of the Hague.  The international system will allow the public flaunting of practices that are clearly questionable.
> 
> ◈   The Hague will give what appears to be tacit approval for hostile interests to commit offenses that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them without fear of prosecution.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership forums to prompt propaganda for the continuation of a conflict.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to advocate for racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or further violence.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to publicly say (without challenge) it is a "human right" for Palestinians to kill Jews.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to further advocate for Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to further hostilities, the purpose of which is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.​​◈   The court lends tacit approval for international leadership to in accordance with the United Nations Charter.​​The International Courts must take corrective action, when it becomes obvious that the International leadership is intentionally misrepresenting the legal intent of the law and deliberately intending to deceive the general international population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





> MEMRI said:
> 
> 
> Al-Jazeera Network Report on “Night Disturbance Unit” in Jenin Refugee Camp: We Prepare Explosive Devices and Hurl Them at Israeli Soldiers



Hostile foreigners can expect attack.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Wow. ''pallys reject''.

Quite a dilemma for the Australians. They might want to engage with the PLO, PNC, PCC, PLC, MB, PIJ, PFLP, ....., maybe some focus groups to address Islamic terrorist's hurt feelings.





Negotiations with hyper-religious loons should go well.













						Palestinians reject Australia’s decision to label Hamas as a terrorist organization & criticize its support for settlements - PNN
					

Bethlehem/PNN/ High-ranking official bodies from the Palestine Liberation Organization announced the




					english.pnn.ps
				




High-ranking official bodies from the Palestine Liberation Organization announced their total rejection of Australia’s declaration describing Hamas as a terrorist organization, saying that this reflects double standards as it allows extremist Israeli settlers groups to work for the benefit of Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dr. Hanan Ashrawi​​Beyond a Last Chance: Challenges to achieving a Palestinian-Israeli Peace​
​


----------



## Hollie

Those who know their koranology and Muhammud's concept of _Hudna_ know that a tactic of Islamic warring Involves a temporary halt to hostilities in order to rearm before resuming the war.

With Shia Iranian money for resupply of arms and demands by the Mullocrats that their minions obey orders, attacks by Hamas are inevitable.







			https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/analysis-why-palestinian-violence-is-again-on-the-rise/
		







Photo: Atia Mohammed/Flash90
Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, two Gaza-based terror groups, closed an alliance at the beginning of last week to step up terror attacks in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem. The commanders of the Hamas and PIJ military branches met last Sunday to discuss intensifying cooperation between the two terrorist groups.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Concealment of the Intent
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

People like Dr Ashrawi,  mimic talks with the objective of peace.  It is a disguise that masks the intent by saying one thing and doing something completely different. 

Because the impact of suggestions can not stimulate the change with the development of political, economic, and social differences, the actual meaning behind such Madison Avenue jargon such as "Challenges to achieving a Palestinian-Israeli Peace" - the objective of "Peace" is not even on the table.  The true conditions are masked by compensatory mechanisms that promote hostile thinking at all levels of the Arab Palestinian community.

◈ Fatah: Murdering children is a "legitimate human struggle" - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis​​◈ PA, PLO, and Fatah inciting and promoting violence against Israeli flag march in Jerusalem​​*◈  HAMAS Peaceful Intent*​


P F Tinmore said:


> Dr. Hanan Ashrawi​Beyond a Last Chance: Challenges to achieving a Palestinian-Israeli Peace​


*(COMMENT)*

It is Palestinian speech that is based on social communication impairments and repetitive that establishes the Hostile Arab Palestinian patterns of violent behaviors.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Concealment of the Intent
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> People like Dr Ashrawi,  mimic talks with the objective of peace.  It is a disguise that masks the intent by saying one thing and doing something completely different.
> 
> Because the impact of suggestions can not stimulate the change with the development of political, economic, and social differences, the actual meaning behind such Madison Avenue jargon such as "Challenges to achieving a Palestinian-Israeli Peace" - the objective of "Peace" is not even on the table.  The true conditions are masked by compensatory mechanisms that promote hostile thinking at all levels of the Arab Palestinian community.
> 
> ◈ Fatah: Murdering children is a "legitimate human struggle" - when the killer is Palestinian and victims are Israelis​​◈ PA, PLO, and Fatah inciting and promoting violence against Israeli flag march in Jerusalem​​*◈  HAMAS Peaceful Intent*​
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is Palestinian speech that is based on social communication impairments and repetitive that establishes the Hostile Arab Palestinian patterns of violent behaviors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


All of the Palestinian's actions are a response to Israeli violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> All of the Palestinian's actions are a response to Israeli violence.


No. The actions of the pals are largely in furtherance of islamist ideology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:

🤣



Read the Hamas Charter.


----------



## Hollie

In keeping with their pattern of continuing to plumb the depths of really depraved Cult stereotypes


The Pallys need a new leader.















						PA/Fatah: Terror is the "path to victory," Dead terrorists “are our heroes… who illuminate the path for our people… We all need to be like [them],” | PMW Analysis
					

Three killed terrorist “heroes” will be “a curse” for Israel, says Fatah spokesman, calling for “liberation of the land”




					palwatch.org
				





PA/Fatah: Terror is the "path to victory," Dead terrorists “are our heroes… who illuminate the path for our people… We all need to be like [them],”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 20, 2022




*Three killed terrorist “heroes” will be “a curse” for Israel, says Fatah spokesman, calling for “liberation of the land”*​
​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Read the Hamas Charter.


They should call it the Israeli Charter. Israel is the only one who uses it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> They should call it the Israeli Charter. Israel is the only one who uses it.



They call it the Hamas Charter because it was written by the wannabe Muslim Brotherhood lackeys of Hamas.

Deal with your hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

​








						Palestinian Official Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram Extols Martyrdom In Friday Sermon Following IDF Killing Of 3 Fatah Terrorists: Israelis Are The Enemies Of Allah; They Terrorize, Commit Crimes Against Our People
					

In a Friday, February 11, 2022 sermon at the Surda Mosque in the West Bank, Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram, the head of the Shari’a...




					www.memri.org
				








When I read the term “pally official”, I expect a loud sucking sound to be heard as a reality based worldview is consumed by a vortex of Islamist absurdity.


----------



## Hollie

It sure looks like the Iranian Mullocrats are hoping to broaden the Islamic terrorist enterprise of Hamas. 












						PNP says Hamas recruiting for terror attacks in Philippines
					

The plots were meant to "establish a foothold" in the Philippines by inciting violence that targets Israelis in the country, the PNP said.




					www.philstar.com
				





MANILA, Philippines — The Philippine National Police said it uncovered a terror plot by militant Islamic organization Hamas against Israelis and Arabs in the country to wage a proxy war in the country by recruiting Filipino affiliates to carry out terrorist activities against Westerners and Middle Eastern nationals.

According to a report by Police Brig. Gen. Neil Alinsangan, PNP Intelligence Group director, the conspiracy was uncovered from information disclosed by a local contact of Hamas. The plots were meant to "establish a foothold" in the Philippines by inciting violence that targets Israelis in the country, the PNP said.


----------



## Hollie

Like the UN, Amnesty International has become just another far left advocacy group catering to the wishes and desires of misfit Islamic terrorist Pallys. Sovereign nations make their own laws absent interference from agenda driven bureaucrats and while the pal darlings of Amnesty International are their top priority, Amnesty can best spend their time writing press releases no one cares about. 










						Amnesty International’s obsessive fixation with Israel
					

The underhanded and deceitful methodology and tactics used in the organization’s recent report are unbefitting of an international organization that claims to be apolitical, fair and objective.




					www.jns.org
				





February 20, 2022 / JNS) Much has been written about the Feb. 1, 2022 Amnesty International report alleging that Israel practices apartheid against the Palestinians.1

From its opening paragraphs and throughout, this report is rife with over-generalized and sweeping accusations and irresponsible value judgments, all of which do nothing but prejudice any claim to professionalism and credibility on the part of the authors of the report, as well as of the organization that has endorsed it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> Like the UN, Amnesty International has become just another far left advocacy group catering to the wishes and desires of misfit Islamic terrorist Pallys. Sovereign nations make their own laws absent interference from agenda driven bureaucrats and while the pal darlings of Amnesty International are their top priority, Amnesty can best spend their time writing press releases no one cares about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty International’s obsessive fixation with Israel
> 
> 
> The underhanded and deceitful methodology and tactics used in the organization’s recent report are unbefitting of an international organization that claims to be apolitical, fair and objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jns.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> February 20, 2022 / JNS) Much has been written about the Feb. 1, 2022 Amnesty International report alleging that Israel practices apartheid against the Palestinians.1
> 
> From its opening paragraphs and throughout, this report is rife with over-generalized and sweeping accusations and irresponsible value judgments, all of which do nothing but prejudice any claim to professionalism and credibility on the part of the authors of the report, as well as of the organization that has endorsed it.



PF Tinmore said:
🤣

He couldn’t find a YouTube video.


----------



## Hollie

I guess Islamic dictatorships are the preferred model of authoritarianism for Arabs-Moslems. 











						Corruption: A major cause of Palestinian suffering - documentary
					

For decades, to divert the attention of the media, the international community and their people, all they had to do was accuse Israel of all their ills.




					m.jpost.com
				




Much has been said about the sums that the Palestinian Authority spends on salaries of terrorists imprisoned in Israel and the families of “martyrs” – in other words, suicide-terrorists and those killed during their murderous operation. But when you talk to Palestinians about the misappropriation of funds allocated by the international community, the first term they use is “corruption.”

Indeed, a study by AMAN – a chapter of Transparency International co-founded by Jordan – shows that, according to several surveys of the Palestinian population, the corruption of their leaders is the second most popular cause of their misery. According to the same surveys, the first cause would be the inability of these same leaders to create a strong economy. The Israeli occupation comes in third place.



Indeed!


----------



## Hollie

It’s like watching a comedy of errors where the stakes are life and death. These angry Cultists have a history of murder and torture of those in the competing Cult so being a loser has real consequences.

Good times. 












						Hamas calls for probe into PA corruption
					

Hamas yesterday called for a full investigation to be carried out into corruption in the Palestinian Authority (PA) following a 'shocking' report issued by the State Audit Administrative Bureau.  ...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





Hamas yesterday called for a full investigation to be carried out into corruption in the Palestinian Authority (PA) following a "shocking" report issued by the State Audit Administrative Bureau.

In a statement, Hamas spokesperson Hazem Qasem said: "The shocking corruption of the PA's institutions and the PA government in Ramallah revealed by the State Audit Administrative Bureau reiterated the necessity to open a real and full investigation into the PA's corruption."

All the corrupt PA officials "should be sent to courts", he added.


----------



## Mindful

Here’s a story only The New Arab seems to have covered. 

And you already know why the mainstream media, so-called ‘human rights’ groups, so-called feminists like Linda Sarsour, and of course so-called “pro-palestinian” folk, have been completely silent about it.









						Mainstream Media, 'Rights Groups' Silent Over Killing of Palestinian Woman in Gaza
					

Here's a story only The New Arab seems to have covered. You already know why so many others are completely silent




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

Pally'dom is in large part about a continuous need to press the next generation of child soldiers into the gee-had. The scam of the ''poor, oppressed Islamic terrorist'' has been a theme for decades. The Islamic terrorist franchises and the sheer volume of international welfare money that pours into the territories controlled by those franchises makes Islamic terrorists very wealthy. 











						"Palestinian" Children Play With Terror
					

The children are taught from infancy through adulthood all the basic lessons and techniques of terrorism. From birth and the cradle the children learn hatred, incitement, terrorism and violence.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




"Palestinian" Children Play With Terror​The children are taught from infancy through adulthood all the basic lessons and techniques of terrorism. From birth and the cradle the children learn hatred, incitement, terrorism and violence.​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Pally'dom is in large part about a continuous need to press the next generation of child soldiers into the gee-had. The scam of the ''poor, oppressed Islamic terrorist'' has been a theme for decades. The Islamic terrorist franchises and the sheer volume of international welfare money that pours into the territories controlled by those franchises makes Islamic terrorists very wealthy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinian" Children Play With Terror
> 
> 
> The children are taught from infancy through adulthood all the basic lessons and techniques of terrorism. From birth and the cradle the children learn hatred, incitement, terrorism and violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israelnationalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinian" Children Play With Terror​The children are taught from infancy through adulthood all the basic lessons and techniques of terrorism. From birth and the cradle the children learn hatred, incitement, terrorism and violence.​


Ooooo, you plated the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

I believe I'm finally understanding the "two state solution"

As we know, the "country of Pal'istan" was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne... (snicker). The Pallys are now demanding another, new "state of Pal'istan", hence the "two state solution"... or else they will continue acts of Islamic terrorism which they will continue with two, three or more "countries of Pal'istan".











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




Who cares if the PLO revokes its recognition of Israel?

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Feb 21, 2022
The PLO has never truly recognized Israel

Unless Israel “freezes settlements” and  “establish a Palestinian state in the June 4 [1967] borders whose capital is East Jerusalem… we will revoke all the agreements, including revoking recognition of the State of Israel… and the security coordination” - Head of the Palestinian National Council

“We will continue to fight through all the means that are available to us... Even armed struggle is permitted” – PLO official






PLO, PLC, PNC, PCC....

Who can keep track of the alphabet soup collection of Islamic terrorist franchises?


----------



## Hollie

I suspect the night 'take one for the gee-had' clowns are going to discover very quickly what night vision gear is all about. 

Pally teenagers are a disposable commodity. 











						Al-Jazeera Report On 'Night Disturbance Unit' In Palestinian Authority's Jenin Refugee Camp: We Prepare Explosive Devices And Hurl Them At Israeli Soldiers
					

AJ+, the online platform of Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar), posted a report about the "night disturbance unit" in the Jenin ...




					www.memri.org
				




Al-Jazeera Report On 'Night Disturbance Unit' In Palestinian Authority's Jenin Refugee Camp: We Prepare Explosive Devices And Hurl Them At Israeli Soldiers​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas official Issam Al-Dalis revealed on Monday that a plan to help Gazans economically.

Part of the plan includes negotiating (indirectly) with Israel to provide an additional 30,000 work permits for Gazans to work in Israel.

Palestinians and their allies tell the world how awful the Jews are and how they want everyone to boycott Israel, but at the same time even Hamas wants Gazans to have jobs with the hated enemy that supposedly wantonly kills Arabs.

In the end, even Hamas and Fatah don't believe their own propaganda. But credulous Westerners do, which is the intent all along.

(full article online)









						Hamas aiming to increase the number of Gazans working in Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas official Issam Al-Dalis revealed on Monday that a plan to help Gazans economically.
> 
> Part of the plan includes negotiating (indirectly) with Israel to provide an additional 30,000 work permits for Gazans to work in Israel.
> 
> Palestinians and their allies tell the world how awful the Jews are and how they want everyone to boycott Israel, but at the same time even Hamas wants Gazans to have jobs with the hated enemy that supposedly wantonly kills Arabs.
> 
> In the end, even Hamas and Fatah don't believe their own propaganda. But credulous Westerners do, which is the intent all along.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas aiming to increase the number of Gazans working in Israel
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com



''30,000 work permits for Gazans to work in Israel.''

This is apartheid'ism. Time to alert the UN.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied. 











						Israeli Govt Leaders Praise Elimination of Terror Cell, Israeli Arab MKs Call It ‘Execution’
					

The Palestinian Authority called on the United Nations and international human rights groups to condemn "this heinous crime" and work to "bring the perpetrators to justice."




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The three terrorists, all of them armed, were in a vehicle at the time and were killed while preparing to open fire at members of Israel’s “Yamam” counter terrorism force. There were no Israeli casualties, the Shin Bet said. According to the PA’s official WAFA news agency, a fourth terrorist was arrested.


----------



## Hollie

Unfortunately, this is who the they are. The 'leadership' especially is consumed by a 1,400 year old politico- religious ideological 
hatred for Jews that goes back to the invention of the ideology by an Arab warlord. 





__





						The vile PA Jew hatred | PMW Analysis
					

In an article recently published in the official PA daily, one of the paper’s regular columnists, presented his overview of the creation of Israel in the aftermath of the Holocaust as a “colonialist state” created to “establish a swamp for the savages who were massacred.”




					palwatch.org
				




The vile PA Jew hatred
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Feb 22, 2022
Since its creation, Palestinian Media Watch has documented the vile Jew hatred spouted by the Palestinian Authority and its leaders, as presented to the Palestinian people through the official PA media. While Jew hatred is common place in PA discourse, occasionally even the PA organs and mouthpieces outdo themselves.

In an article recently published in the official PA daily, Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, one of the paper’s regular columnists, presented his overview of the creation of Israel in the aftermath of the Holocaust as a “colonialist state” created to “establish a swamp for the savages who were massacred.” Al-Ghoul continued his diatribe, following the general PA narrative that the “Palestinians” granted the Jews shelter from the “barbaric Nazi, and fascist western and eastern Europe and against the American cowboy” but that the Jews betrayed that kindness:


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Arab Woman & Kids Rip Out Fruit Trees Planted by Efrat Residents
					

"If we wouldn't be planting, they would. If we don't get residents beyond the fence and walking around, the Arabs will claim that land."




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

So in order to convince their audience that they are Jews, these actors have to be a "chameleon," "act out all colors" and "play their part well?"

Big deal.

Anyone walking down the street in Malmo, Sweden -- which has a large Muslim population -- can get the same reaction from complete strangers, without saying a word, just by wearing a kippah. No acting necessary.

Given the children shows in Gaza that teach kids to hate Jews, the summer camps where children can learn to act out attacking Jews and the other forms of incitement that Hamas uses -- hatred of Jews is so systemic that it is hard to see what all the fuss is about actors being attacked for being identified as Jews on TV.

And these attacks that these actors look upon as a source of pride is seen elsewhere as hatred that needs to be combatted.

The AFP article itself misses the point as well.

It describes Fauda as nothing more than a show that "portrays a military unit...that launches raids inside Palestinian territories" and against which Hamas wants "to flip the equation, to show the Palestinian point of view, to broadcast a drama about the spirit of our resistance."

The description by the Associated Press of the first season of the show gives a little more context, describing the show as "the adventures of an undercover Israeli commando team who immerse themselves in the heart of Palestinian society to capture a terrorist behind a wave of suicide bombings."

By taking their cue from Hamas and reducing the Israeli and Gaza TV shows as a propaganda war, AFP completely overlooks one of elements of Fauda that has made it so popular:



> In addition to the shootouts and chases, it also delves into the politics and personal drama of the commandos and terrorists, depicting their motivations and family lives, often in a sympathetic manner.
> 
> The creators, though they identify as Zionist Jews, don’t shy away from showing the uglier sides of the West Bank occupation and the struggles of the other side. They even look to smash one of the greatest taboos of all, exploring the possibility of an Israeli-Palestinian romance.


That may be one of the reasons why, as AP points out, Fauda has fans among Arabs and even among Palestinian Arabs. And that may be what actually has Hamas worried, since they see Gazans watching the show as a form of normalization with Israel.

Neither AFP nor Hamas seem to realize that one of the strong points of Fauda is that it does not present the conflict as black and white, that it is willing to portray the other side sympathetically. 

And that would take _real_ acting.

(full article online)









						Hamas Is Getting Ready To Compete With Fauda (Daled Amos)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

A bit of 'gee-had for thee but not for me', going on here. 














						The Palestinian Leaders’ Five-Star Jihad
					

The leaders of Hamas and PIJ left scorched earth behind them and chose to lead luxurious lives in Doha, Istanbul and Beirut. Strangely, however, instead of hiding their faces in shame, they are callin




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The leaders of the Palestinian terror groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are continuing to urge Palestinians to take to the streets to engage in the jihad (holy war) against Israel.

These leaders are telling the Palestinians that those who are killed while carrying out attacks against Israel will be considered “heroes” and “martyrs.” They are also telling them that the Palestinians must continue the jihad “until the liberation of Palestine,” a euphemism for the elimination of Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority has issued a new stamp in honor of “the Martyrs of the numbered cemeteries” because “their names remain as torches illuminating the path.”

But who are these “Martyrs” and what are “the numbered cemeteries”?

The “Martyrs” are in fact suicide bombers and other terrorist murderers who were killed during their attacks.

The Cemeteries for Enemy Casualties (“the numbered cemeteries”) are two burial sites maintained by the Israeli army for burying the bodies of enemy soldiers during wartime as well as terrorists. Graves have markers instead of gravestones. The bodies are buried in numbered caskets after their identities are documented, and no burial ceremony is held. Burial is temporary, as the bodies are eventually returned to their countries of origin.

The PA’s new stamp exemplifies PA policy, glorifying Palestinian terrorists who attacked, wounded, and murdered Israelis. Reporting on the new PA stamp, the official PA daily described these terrorists as “pure souls” whose “struggle” is “appreciated” – qualities that prompted the PA Ministry of Communications and IT and the Palestinian Postal Administration to issue the stamp.

Palestinian Media Watch has previously documented stamps issued by Hamas in the name of the Palestinian Authority. For example the stamps below featuring rockets aimed at Israelfrom the Gaza Strip (2012) and a hand raising the Palestinian flag over all of Israel, implying political sovereignty over the entire area (2010):

(full article online)









						PA issues stamp in honor of suicide bombers and other terrorist murderers | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority has issued a new stamp in honor of “the Martyrs of the numbered cemeteries” because “their names remain as torches illuminating the path.”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Never did it against the Crusaders.  Or the Ottomans.  But Jews????????  By all means.  Kill the Jews !!!   )

Two songs recently broadcast by the Palestinian Authority on its Live TV channel both promoted terror and martyrdom-death for “Palestine.” One song talks about “revolution” and vows to “wake the sleeping rifle.” It refers to death romantically, stating that “the blood of the Martyrs is in the anemones.” The song implies that more Palestinians are to die for “Palestine” as they “will water your plains and hills” – i.e., with their blood when they die:












--------------

Nope!!!!! There is no history at all of Muslims in the region called Palestine (by the Romans) fighting the Crusaders, and much less the Ottomans who defeated the Crusaders.

It gets curiouser and curiouser by each attacks on Jews.

So many Arabs sacrificed on the altar of Martyrdom over a piece of land.  Never mind that the same was not done to the Hashemites who took TransJordan and then Judea and Samaria.  No outcry at all.

Nor when Egypt took Gaza in 1948.  No a peep.


It is Islam's war against the Jews, and the need for Islam to continue to have Jews only as a subjugated people.

The human sacrifice for that small piece of land is simply unforgivable .


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

It's gratifying to see Islamic terrorists being held accountable for their actions. Nothing can undue the damage caused by a belligerent, unreformed politico-religious ideology but some sense of justice for the victims of that ideology is important.









__





						Palestinian Terror Case Under Way in NYC
					

MANHATTAN (CN) – More than a decade after filing their lawsuit, victims of a wave of terror attacks known as the Second Intifada stood before a New York jury on Tuesday, as their long-anticipated case finally made it to trial.     Lead plaintiff Mark Sokolow, a lawyer who survived a bombing in...




					www.courthousenews.com
				




MANHATTAN (CN) - More than a decade after filing their lawsuit, victims of a wave of terror attacks known as the Second Intifada stood before a New York jury on Tuesday, as their long-anticipated case finally made it to trial.

Lawyers for both the victims of the bombings and the Palestinian governing bodies being sued now condemn the attacks at issue in the case, which killed dozens and maimed hundreds.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The next generation of sociopaths.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


28. Palestinian-American activist and attorney Huwaida Arraf runs for Congress​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> 28. Palestinian-American activist and attorney Huwaida Arraf runs for Congress​


Super. Angry, Jew hating "activists" who are useless as representatives of US citizens.


----------



## Hollie

Here we are again, watching as the islamic terrorist misfits of the Abbas emirate announce their intention to spend their donated welfare money on the killers they breed. 









						Would you give your last penny to a murderer? | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas: “We are dedicating all attention to the topic of the prisoners. Even if we are left with just one penny, we will pay it to those heroes”




					palwatch.org
				





Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 25, 2022
Would you give your last penny to a murderer?

Abbas: “We are dedicating all attention to the topic of the prisoners. Even if we are left with just one penny, we will pay it to those heroes”
Would you give your last penny to a murderer?
No, right!?

But PA Chairman Abbas would.

Again and again – despite international criticism and donors cutting off aid – Abbas has ensured Palestinians that his “last penny” will go to terrorists and murderers - be they imprisoned, released, or dead as “Martyrs.”

Abbas is adamant about this and recently vowed yet again:

“During a speech… at the evening meeting of the [PLO] Central Council…

On the topic of the prisoners, the president said: ‘We are dedicating all attention to the topic of the prisoners. Even if we are left with just one penny, we will pay it to those heroes who we must protect and whose families [we must] listen to.’”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 8, 2022]


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> 28. Palestinian-American activist and attorney Huwaida Arraf runs for Congress​



That's awesome!

We need more muzzie terror supporters in Congress.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Super. Angry, Jew hating "activists" who are useless as representatives of US citizens.


Her husband is a Jew.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> We need more muzzie terror supporters in Congress.


Huwaida is Christian.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Huwaida is Christian.



And a muzzie terror supporter.
Did you donate to her campaign?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> And a muzzie terror supporter.
> Did you donate to her campaign?


Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not.



Did you send her a check yet? How much?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Her husband is a Jew.


And?


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely folks those child abusers.


----------



## Hollie

It ought to be beyond belief that the west still showers welfare dollars on the pal Islamic terrorists.












						'10,000 children are trained each year in Gaza terrorist sum...
					

<p>Girls attending a PFLP 'summer camp' in Gaza.</p>  <p>Belgian Minister of Development Cooperation Meryame Kitir</p>  <p>Links between Belgian NG



					menafn.com
				




Girls attending a PFLP 'summer camp' in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

Super. An abundance of pally children means the excess can be pushed into contract positions for gee-had. 








__





						Lebanon foils three attacks by ISIS-linked militants who recruited Palestinian youths
					





					www.msn.com
				




Lebanese authorities have arrested members of a “terrorist” militant group which recruited Palestinian youths to carry out bombings, they said on Wednesday.

Security forces also thwarted three bombings being planned by the ISIS-linked group targeting Shiite places of worship in Beirut's southern suburbs, said Interior Minister Bassam Mawlawi.

“Today, we arrested a terrorist takfiri network of Palestinian nationals that recruits young people to carry out major operations with explosive belts and missiles that could have caused many casualties,” Mr Mawlawi told the state NNA news agency.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel's persecution of Khalida Jarrar Member of Palestinian Parliament​


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists adopted by the PA. 

Fatah and the Palestinian Authority adopt the three terrorists killed in Nablus









						Fatah and the Palestinian Authority adopt the three terrorists killed in Nablus - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

On February 8, 2022, during an Israeli security force activity in Nablus three Palestinian terrorists were killed. They were members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (Fatah's military terrorist wing) and responsible for a recent series of shooting attacks targeting IDF forces and Israeli...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




On February 8, 2022, during an Israeli security force activity in Nablus three Palestinian terrorists were killed. They were members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades (Fatah’s military terrorist wing) and responsible for a recent series of shooting attacks targeting IDF forces and Israeli civilians, and were planning more. A large quantity of weapons were found in their vehicle (Israeli media, February 8, 2022). The Palestinian media reported the three were Ashraf al-Mabslat, Adhem Mabrouk and Muhammad al-Dakheil, all operatives in the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I suspect most of us don’t see mass murder / suicide in the name of religious fundamentalism as either honorable or praiseworthy. I suspect most of us would not raise our children in an environment where we make their formative years as a period of grooming for their eventual death in the act of a suicide bombing.

The Pal culture of death, on the other hand…












						PA issues stamp in honor of suicide bombers and other terrorist murderers | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority has issued a new stamp in honor of “the Martyrs of the numbered cemeteries” because “their names remain as torches illuminating the path.”




					palwatch.org
				





PA issues stamp in honor of suicide bombers and other terrorist murderers​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Feb 23, 2022




The Palestinian Authority has issued a new stamp in honor of “the Martyrs of the numbered cemeteries” because “their names remain as torches illuminating the path.”

But who are these “Martyrs” and what are “the numbered cemeteries”?
The “Martyrs” are in fact suicide bombers and other terrorist murderers who were killed during their attacks.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:
🤣


Nothing available on YouTube.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

''Gee-had for thee_____

Fortunes made from welfare fraud have allowed a select few Pal terrorists to live well, far from the territories occupied by the Islamic terrorist welfare recipients. 












						The Palestinian Leaders’ Five-Star Jihad
					

The leaders of Hamas and PIJ left scorched earth behind them and chose to lead luxurious lives in Doha, Istanbul and Beirut. Strangely, however, instead of hiding their faces in shame, they are callin




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The leaders of the Palestinian terror groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are continuing to urge Palestinians to take to the streets to engage in the jihad (holy war) against Israel.

These leaders are telling the Palestinians that those who are killed while carrying out attacks against Israel will be considered “heroes” and “martyrs.” They are also telling them that the Palestinians must continue the jihad “until the liberation of Palestine,” a euphemism for the elimination of Israel.

These are the messages that were recently sent to the Palestinians by Hamas leaders Khaled Mashaal and Ismail Haniyeh. Mashaal and Haniyeh are sending the messages from their five-star hotels and luxurious villas in Qatar.


----------



## Hollie

Shocking, really. 

I guess the only thing to do is wait till next year and do another poll. 












						Majority of Palestinians believe corruption increased, poll finds
					

The results showed that widespread corruption poses the most important challenge to the Palestinians, followed by the “occupation,” economic issues, and the dispute between the PA and Hamas.




					www.jpost.com
				




Most Palestinians believe that corruption in Palestinian Authority institutions has increased in 2021, according to a public opinion poll published on Tuesday.

The poll, conducted by The Coalition for Integrity and Accountability (AMAN) at the beginning of October, also found that many Palestinians do not have confidence in various bodies entrusted with combating corruption


----------



## Hollie

Pals speaking out against Hamas? 

That's, you know, racist or something. 












						Media Must Spotlight Rising Gazan Opposition To Hamas Says HRC In The Suburban
					

In Montreal's The Suburban newspaper on February 16, HonestReporting Canada commented on how the vast majority of Gazans are poor,




					honestreporting.ca
				




*Mo**ntreal’s The Suburban newspaper on February 16*, HonestReporting Canada commented on how the vast majority of Gazans are poor, and living in densely populated areas, under the oppressive thumb of the Hamas regime. And now, they may be finally speaking out – at great personal risk – against Hamas. This movement, called They Kidnapped Gaza, is spreading on social media, but will the Canadian media tell their story and show the true face of Hamas?


----------



## Hollie

Who could have predicted that both Islamic terrorist franchises; the PA and Hamas are both viewed as corrupt entities?












						Hamas’s corruption
					

Chalk it up again to corruption, the virus that continues to infect governments across the Middle East.




					www.jpost.com
				




A recent poll indicated that the PA’s flat-lining support stems, in part, from the widespread perception (more than 70 percent of those polled) that the longtime leaders of the Palestinian movement have become irreparably corrupt. From allegations of squelching free speech to amassing great personal wealth, the PA has been on the ropes.


But a closer look reveals that – surprisingly – Hamas is not much better in the corruption department. The poll that slams the PA, conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, also found that 57% of Palestinians believe there is widespread corruption in Gaza’s institutions, too. Thus, despite the successful electoral campaign in 2006 that promised to clean up corruption, it appears that the Islamist faction that rules Gaza has succumbed to the temptation of financial vice.


----------



## Hollie

Some discontent in the Islamic paradise of Gaza'istan. The 'protests' were largely online so less likely people will disappear in the night. 












						‘They hijacked Gaza’: Palestinians hold rare online events critical of Hamas
					

Public dissent is unusual in the coastal enclave, where the terror group frequently cracks down on those who criticize it




					www.timesofisrael.com
				







Palestinians chant slogans during a protest against the ongoing electricity crisis in Jabalia refugee camp in the northern Gaza Strip, January 12, 2017. (AFP/MOHAMMED ABED)
For the past week, Palestinians from Gaza have been participating in a series of social media events criticizing Hamas rule in the Strip, voicing concerns rarely expressed in the repressive enclave.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

It's financing that runs the islamic gee-had and what makes fortunes for the Pal terrorists. 

"Follow the money"









						Israel seizes cryptocurrency destined for Hamas terrorism funding
					

The Al'matchadun currency exchange company was accused of assisting Hamas with the transfer of tens of millions of dollars per year by the Defense Ministry.




					www.google.com
				









Israel seizes cryptocurrency destined for Hamas terrorism funding​By JERUSALEM POST STAFF 
Published: FEBRUARY 28, 2022 11:59
Updated: FEBRUARY 28, 2022 12:00




A coin representing the bitcoin cryptocurrency is seen on computer circuit boards in this illustrative picture
(photo credit: REUTERS)
The Al'matchadun currency exchange company was accused of assisting Hamas with the transfer of tens of millions of dollars per year by the Defense Ministry.​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> View attachment 608002


Indeed, they did not invade Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, they did not invade Israel.


Indeed, you're confused.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, they did not invade Israel.



They invaded Palestine? They didn't like your terrorist buddies either, eh?


----------



## Hollie

In case you didn't know, there were pallys even _before_ there were pallys. Pallys even owned 'Pal'istan' before there were pallys, at least according to Mahmoud ''_I fell down and bumped my head'_' Abbas.

The stuff you learn on the interwebs.











						Abbas: “Christians and Muslims fight their enemy” – Israel, to rid the land of its Jews | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas: “We have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence… We will remain in this land forever, while the attackers [the Jews] have no place in Jerusalem and no place here”




					palwatch.org
				




Abbas: “Christians and Muslims fight their enemy” – Israel, to rid the land of its Jews​Itamar Marcus  | Feb 28, 2022

*Abbas: “We have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence… We will remain in this land forever, while the attackers [the Jews] have no place in Jerusalem and no place here”*​
*PA TV preacher: Palestinian narrative is “the true unblemished and undisputed historical narrative,” Jews are “liars”*​




PA Chairman Abbas has stated that Christians and Muslims are united in “fighting” against the common “enemy” – i.e., Israel. He reiterated a common PA libel that Israel's goal is to “empty the land” of Christians and Muslims, and therefore they must join forces in getting rid of the Jews – because Christians and Muslims “have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence”:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> He reiterated a common PA libel that Israel's goal is to “empty the land” of Christians and Muslims, and therefore they must join forces in getting rid of the Jews – because Christians and Muslims “have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence”:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



So... Pallys owned the land even before pallys existed.

That's a first cousin absurdity to your claim that the ''country of Pal'istan'' was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne.

It seems that a disconnect from reality is a maladjustment you share with Mahmoud.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The UN Human Rights Council opened its 49th session today in Geneva where it was decided to hold an urgent debate on Ukraine. 

Many high ranking national officials spoke, as they always do. Most spoke about their concern over Ukraine. Many spoke about Covid-19 challenges to human rights (including Spain, Thailand, Moldova,) or worries about nuclear war (Marshall Islands), or other issues of human rights that affect the entire planet.

One, however, ignored everything else happening in the world and stuck to his only theme: Israel is evil and the world is treating Israel too well.

Here is the UN summary of Palestinian foreign minister Riyad Maliki's speech:




> RIAD AL-MALKI, Minister for Foreign Affairs of the State of Palestine, said every year the international community met to discuss international human rights and international human rights law. But the reality for millions of victims of egregious human rights violations continued to deteriorate, the right to justice continued to be ignored, and the culture of impunity reigned. The reason behind this was double standards. Respect for international human rights and international humanitarian law should be ensured universally. This hall had borne witness to outrageous statements justifying war crimes and crimes against humanity, many committed against the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people had suffered from this, with the Israeli Government given special treatment, allowing it to commit crimes with utter impunity. Hundreds of Palestinian families lived under the intolerable threat of dispossession. Israeli settlers enjoyed legal protection, whilst the Palestinian people were punished for protecting themselves. Israel continued to expand, stripping all Palestinians from their fundamental rights. Some States rewarded Israel with special status: only double-standards and exceptionalism could explain this upside-down reality.
> 
> States that respected international law had nothing to hide; they did not bar United Nations officials, nor ban human rights defenders. When they did, they were met with justifiable international disapproval, and yet Israel banned international investigators and got away with it, as it wished for no proof of its crimes, and could count on special treatment by the international community. Palestine called on the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights to update the database of companies involved in illegal activities in Palestine. Exceptionalism was also applied by some Member States who continued to work against item seven on the Human Rights Council agenda.



You get that? No other nation has a dedicated permanent item on the HRC's agenda. No other nation has a database dedicated to attack companies that work on its soil. But Maliki says that the double standards are practiced by those who object to these double standards the UNHRC applies to Israel!

As of this moment, there has been only silence from the Palestinian Authority about the Ukraine crisis. Not even a statement of concern about the loss of civilian lives, or a call for a cease fire or negotiations. Not a word. Because the "State of Palestine" has only one purpose for existing: to deny the right of the Jewish state to exist. There is little interest in building a functioning society, there is no interest in helping Palestinians live dignified lives, there is no tolerance for anyone who points out that they are led by a split between two dictators who don't want to even see Palestinian unity. 

(full article online)









						"Palestine" ignores Ukraine at the UNHRC, and (as always) is fixated on demonizing Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

(Never against the Crusaders or the Ottoman Empire.
Jews get some of their homeland back........They wake up.....they rise.....they want to kill.......  Islam in a nutshell )

He then goes on to describe how incredibly important chanting is to Palestinian culture.

I could not verify the expression "_min el-maiyeh lel mayieh_" as being used before the "river to the sea" chant. I'm no expert, but if it was true, I would expect to see it somewhere on the Web in that context (the closest I could find was Arabic textbooks describing the water cycle with a variant of this.)

But the most interesting piece of this revisionist article is that it ignores other antisemitic chants that have been heard at anti-Israel rallies for decades.

The most famous is, of course, "Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud" or "Jews, remember Khaybar, the army of Muhammad is returning". It is a call to genocide of Jews as Mohammed massacred them in Khaybar.

There are also chants of "Itbach al-Yahud" - slaughter the Jews - heard in rallies, which pre-dates Israel.

Once we are talking history, "Al Yahud Kelabna," - "The Jews are our dogs" - has been an Arab and Palestinian Arab chant for over a century.

This wonderful Palestinian tradition of chanting, so movingly described as an essential part of Palestinian culture by Moussa, has spawned an equally inspiring tradition of antisemitic chants in English: 

"Long live the intifada" 
"There is only one solution - intifada revolution"
"Hey hey, ho ho, Zionists have got to go"
“With fire and blood, we will liberate Palestine!”
And the popular European chant, "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas"

For some reason, this article that rhapsodizes about the importance of chants to Palestinian culture, which argues that they are completely innocuous and misunderstood by the racist West, completely missed these other examples of Palestinian and pro-Palestinian chants. Must have been an oversight. 

(full article online)









						How wonderful it is to chant about murdering Jews!
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

This seems to be a strategy that is re implemented with an Islamic terrorist entity that sees Israeli attempts at coexistence as a reason to expand the gee-had against them. 











						Israel Offers Economic Help to Palestinians in Bid to Stem Influence of Hamas
					

Taken together, the piecemeal initiatives amount to a new period of Palestinian engagement by an Israeli centrist coalition government attempting a reset on West Bank policies after a decade of frayed relations under former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But they don’t offer support for a...




					www.wsj.com
				




RAMALLAH, West Bank—Israel is rushing to prop up the Palestinian Authority, promising loans, allowing infrastructure upgrades and holding high-level talks with West Bank leaders for the first time in years, in a bid to stem the growing influence of Hamas and keep a lid on violent unrest.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Defense Minister Benny Gantz has signed a seizure order for tens of thousands of shekels in cryptocurrency from 12 digital accounts in violation of terror financing laws, the Defense Ministry announced on Monday. 

According to the ministry, this is the third seizure of cryptocurrency so far this year. 

Some 30 of the digital wallets seized belonged to businesses that assisted the Al Mutahadun currency-exchange company, owned by the Shamlach family from the Gaza Strip. Al Mutahadun is one of two companies designated in 2021 as terrorist organizations on the recommendation of the National Bureau for Counter Terror Financing (NBCTF) for their role in funneling funds to Hamas. 

The Shamlach family's companies facilitate the transfer of tens of millions of dollars a year from Iran to Hamas, the Defense Ministry said, adding that some of the seized cryptocurrency belongs to the Shamlach family. 

The seizure was a joint operation of the NBCTF, the national cyber unit of the Israel Police's Lahav 433 and the IDF Intelligence Directorate, the ministry said.

(full article online)





__





						Loading…
					





					www.israelhayom.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Last night, Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists in Jeninopened fire on Israeli soldiers who were arresting another terrorist in Jenin. The IDF fired back, killing two of them.

Here are photos of the two from Palestine Today, an Islamic Jihad newspaper:





Islamic Jihad openly calls them both "resistance fighters from the Jenin Brigade." 

There is video of the terrorists shooting at the Israeli troops.



But the Palestinian Authority has decided to treat them as innocent victims.

PA prime minister Mohamed Shtayyeh condemned Israel for killing them as he led a cabinet meeting, calling it "the execution of two young men." The Palestinian health ministry called them "civilian." So did the official PA newspaper Al Hayat al Jadida.

The official Wafa news agency is covering the terrorist funeral as if they are heroes. 

Here's the interesting thing: Earlier on Monday, the Palestinian Authority itself raided Jenin to arrest Islamic Jihad terrorists! This caused a lot of criticism from the locals. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian Authority claims terrorists are "civilian martyrs"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian media call suggested Negev community for escaping Ukrainian Jews "settlements"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

In case you didn't know, Islamic terrorists have something called ''resistance tunnels''.

While the ''leadership'' of Islamic terrorist franchises are spending their welfare checks in Qatar, the rest of the welfare money is spent on knuckleheads digging ''resistance tunnels''.











						Hamas Terrorist Killed in Collapse of Terror Tunnel in Gaza
					

Several Hamas operatives have recently died while working in terror tunnels.




					www.jewishpress.com
				






Terror tunnel in Gaza

A Hamas terrorist died as a result of the collapse of a tunnel in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades announced.

The Al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’ military wing, announced that the “Mujahid” Muhammad Ashraf Abed was “martyred after the collapse of a resistance tunnel


----------



## Hollie

I'm curious to know if the Sunni holy warriors are frisked and wanded before an audience with the robed Shia Ayatollah- lite in Lebanon'istan. 











						Hamas, Hezbollah Leaders Meet in Lebanon to Discuss Israel
					

Hezbollah-affiliated media outlets reported that the sides discussed events in the eastern Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, along with the future of the conflict with Israel and the political




					www.jewishpress.com
				






Deputy Hamas leader Saleh al-Arouri and Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah meet in Beirut in 2017.

_By Shahar Klaiman_

A Hamas delegation met with Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in Lebanon on Saturday.


----------



## Sixties Fan

February Meeting Confirms Palestinian Leadership Needs an Israeli Bailout
					

Israeli-Palestinian security coordination is also indispensable for Israel and the Palestinian Authority.




					nationalinterest.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Brooklyn Conference: Linda Sarsour and Bob Bland, with Carmen Hermo​


----------



## Hollie

There was an anniversary, of sorts, observed by the Fatah Islamic terrorist syndicate. And yes, it's as vile and creepy as you would expect. 












						Fatah’s devotion to its “hero,” “pure blood” suicide bomber from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades | PMW Analysis
					

Today, March 2nd, marks the 20th anniversary of the suicide bombing carried out at the entrance to a yeshiva. 11 people were murdered in the attack, among them children and babies, and 50 were injured.




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah’s devotion to its “hero,” “pure blood” suicide bomber from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades​
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 2, 2022
Today, March 2nd, marks the 20th anniversary of the suicide bombing carried out at the entrance to a yeshiva (Jewish religious studies academy) in the Beit Yisrael neighborhood of Jerusalem in 2002, shortly after a Bar Mitzvah celebration had taken place there. 11 people were murdered in the attack, among them children and babies, and 50 were injured.





The suicide bomber, Muhammad Daraghmeh Al-Shou'ani, was a member of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the terror wing of Fatah, the party now headed by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There was an anniversary, of sorts, observed by the Fatah Islamic terrorist syndicate. And yes, it's as vile and creepy as you would expect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah’s devotion to its “hero,” “pure blood” suicide bomber from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Today, March 2nd, marks the 20th anniversary of the suicide bombing carried out at the entrance to a yeshiva. 11 people were murdered in the attack, among them children and babies, and 50 were injured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah’s devotion to its “hero,” “pure blood” suicide bomber from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades​
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 2, 2022
> Today, March 2nd, marks the 20th anniversary of the suicide bombing carried out at the entrance to a yeshiva (Jewish religious studies academy) in the Beit Yisrael neighborhood of Jerusalem in 2002, shortly after a Bar Mitzvah celebration had taken place there. 11 people were murdered in the attack, among them children and babies, and 50 were injured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The suicide bomber, Muhammad Daraghmeh Al-Shou'ani, was a member of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the terror wing of Fatah, the party now headed by PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.


When are you going to celebrate 2014 when Israel killed  500 children in GAZA?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> When are you going to celebrate 2014 when Israel killed  500 children in GAZA?



Who would celebrate the deaths of children Hamas used as human shields?

Besides you....and Hamas?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Who would celebrate the deaths of children Hamas used as human shields?
> 
> Besides you....and Hamas?


Israeli bullshit, of course.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli bullshit, of course.



No human shields in Gaza?


----------



## ding

Toddsterpatriot said:


> No human shields in Gaza?


Are you arguing two wrongs makes a right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Meant To Be Bystanders with Linda Sarsour​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> When are you going to celebrate 2014 when Israel killed  500 children in GAZA?


Why would anyone but your heroes in Hamas and Fatah celebrate the death of children?

You folks make heroes of the children you put in harms way. Celebrate your degeneracy. No one else will. 









						Child Soldiers: Hamas's Youngest 'Terror Tot'
					

Hamas's Interior Ministry celebrates its model 5-year-old - an armed child soldier, and in doing so shows how little separates it from ISIS.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> We Are Not Meant To Be Bystanders with Linda Sarsour​



Just another Islamic terrorist / Islamic terrorist misfit enabler. Safely ensconced in the Great Satan where she really is a bystander.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are calling for ''popular resistance''. Odd, but Islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israel seem most popular with the Islamic terrorists who aren't leading the gee-had attacks and suffering the consequences of those attacks.

I suppose there is an excess of children to be used and abused by the Fatah and Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicates. It seems to be something of a guided breedjng program.












						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




PA calls for terror - “popular resistance” – like the first Intifada when “we were masters of the roads” and “the settlers were like hiding rats”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 3, 2022




*PA official: “Everyone believes that the model of the first Intifada is the most efficient, strongest, most effective, and perhaps the shortest model in order to achieve the Palestinian people’s rights”*​
*“There is a belief that popular action, peaceful or non-peaceful popular resistance… has the ability to realize the Palestinian people’s aspirations in the shortest timeframe”*​


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ ding, Hollie,]Toddsterpatriot, _et al,_

I am tired of hearing the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) constantly claiming the Israelis have this thirst to kill children.  We know this is absurd.

The overriding fact, that the Arab Palestinians have failed to comprehend is the consequences of their intentional and callous disregard for human life when they commit offenses that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, which is subject to prosecution under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), but it also demonstrates the savagery, psychologically damaged, which casts a shadow any logic you could possibly assign their thinking.             Anytime the HoAP launch an indiscriminate rocket or mortar attack only furthers to service the descriptor of mentally deranged and demented people.  This is especially true when the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation among States [UN A/RES/2625 (XXV)] directs that "international disputes shall be settled by peaceful means.  It further directs that the parties concerned have a duty to refrain from the use of propaganda or acts of reprisal.

The argument today seems to wrap around these seven types of IHL Rules.



​We have all seen these before and know about these prohibited acts. And everyone knows that the Declaration on Principles of International Law (no matter what the HoAP thinks is their territory) must refrain from the threat or use of force that violates international lines of demarcation (ie. the "existing" international boundaries).  We all get it.


ding said:


> Are you arguing two wrongs makes a right?


*(COMMENT)*

OK, the consequences... And we all get that Israel has the right to protect and defend the sovereignty, the territorial integrity, and the political independence of their State and the Jewish National Home.

Chapter VII: Action with Respect to Threats to the Peace, Breaches of the Peace, and Acts of Aggression​Article 51 UN charter​Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.​
We know that the  Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) operates freely in Ramallah.  And we know that Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) operate freely in Gaza.

*(CONSEQUENCES • Deaths)*

We know, for instance, that the deaths would seriously that if HAMAS would implement the procedures to comply with the seven rules, supra, that the need for an Article 51 response would become unnecessary.  And that would save lives...   But the "probability" of that happening is remote.  The governments (and leadership) of Gaza and Ramallah maintain such outward symptoms as:

Disregard and violation of the Rights of Israel
Depraved indifference to Human Life
Illegal acts violations of Customary and Humanitarian Law
Repeated misrepresentation of the facts for deceptive purposes
*(AΩ) * Power and authority that have no discipline are dangerous to all civilizations.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

This video shows how workers in Ashdod found thousands of bullets hidden in insulation material headed for an importer in Gaza.


Unfortunately we don't know the name of the exporter responsible for this, or what country it came from. But it shows how Hamas exploits Israel's allowing materials into Gaza to try to bring in weapons and ammunition.









						Video of bullets being hidden in Gaza imports
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> We know that the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) operates freely in Ramallah. And we know that Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) operate freely in Gaza.


Those are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I am tired of hearing the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) constantly claiming the Israelis have this thirst to kill children. We know this is absurd.


Israel bombs family homes then claims that it does not target women and children.


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the PA maintains that “popular resistance” is “peaceful” and non-violent, Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the terms “popular uprising/resistance” and “peaceful uprising/resistance” are used by PA leaders to refer not only to peaceful protest but also at times to deadly terror attacks and terror waves.

For example, PA Chairman Abbas defined as “peaceful popular” the murderous terror during the 2015-2016 ‎terror wave (“The Knife Intifada”), in which 40 people were killed (36 Israelis, 1 Palestinian, 2 Americans and 1 Eritrean) and hundreds wounded in stabbings, shootings, and car ramming attacks. Abbas said: "We want peaceful popular uprising, and that’s what this is." At the time Abbas said this, 14 Israelis had already been murdered.

Now the PA has again intensified its calls for “popular resistance,” and several PA and PLO officials have urged Palestinians to engage in activities like the first Intifada - the Palestinian wave of violence and terror against Israel 1987-1993, in which approximately 200 Israelis were murdered.

Referring to meetings within the PLO and Fatah, Director-General of Popular Activity in the PA-controlled Committee to Resist Settlements and the Wall Abdallah Abu Rahma explained that the “main topic” there, and for Abbas too, is “popular resistance.” Abu Rahma clarified what they mean by the term - violence intifada style:

(full article online)









						PA calls for terror - “popular resistance” – like the first Intifada when “we were masters of the roads” and “the settlers were like hiding rats” | PMW Analysis
					

PA official: “Everyone believes that the model of the first Intifada is the most efficient, strongest, most effective, and perhaps the shortest model in order to achieve the Palestinian people’s rights”




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF*: The _*Palestinian Constitution*_ is merely window dressing.  To give the appearance of a matured government.


P F Tinmore said:


> Those are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine.


*(OBSERVATION)*

Article 36
• Head of state term limits

The term of the presidency of the National Authority shall be four years. The
President shall have the right to nominate himself for a second term of presidency,
provided that he shall not occupy the position of the presidency more than two consecutive terms.

President Abbas is in ≈ the 15th year of his 4 year term.

*(COMMENT)*

The politically protected protection is not what legitimate political parties gain from the Constitution.

The Palestinian Constitution is about as useful as toilet paper.

The shield of the government does not change the character of the party.  It can still be a party that re-nominates itself.  And if the government exists for the single-minded member's areas siphoning. 

*(AΩ)* Leadership that is in the business of governing may look the part and exercise authority that has no discipline are dangerous to all civilizations.  To them, it is a way to legitimize the Government and an opportunity for graphed and organized corruption under the color of law.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This is just another case of twisting the facts to suit the Hostile Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombs family homes then claims that it does not target women and children.


*(COMMENT)*

*RULE 23*:  "Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."

"It is also related to the prohibition of human shields (*see Rule 97*), as everything feasible must be done to separate military objectives from the civilian population, but in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives."
It must be understood that when the Hostile Arab Palestinians  (HoAP) begin “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.  And that is what you are doing in your response.  You are saying that the HAMAS target may not be targeted because HAMAS located it in a densely populated area.

In addition, deliberately using civilians to shield military operations is contrary to the principle of distinction and violates the obligation to take feasible precautions to separate civilians and military objectives (see Rules 23–24).

The Israelis are NOT targeting women and children, but are targeting the object of military significance set in close proximity (by HAMAS) to the civilians.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> "Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."


Like sleeping at home with the wife and kids?

Israel is soooooo full of shit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Like sleeping at home with the wife and kids?
> 
> Israel is soooooo full of shit.


The reality of Islamic terrorists waging gee-had from residential areas is undeniable... for most rational humans.

Why do you folks groom your children like this?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

If the high value target is sleeping with the "wife and kids" - the "wife and kids" constitutes a shield for the target, "_*you cannot target me because I am with the wife and kids*_."  In what world does that make sense?  *(**RHETORICAL**)*  It is not like the Israelis are acting like Arab Palestinians (*example: The Palestinian Role Model Dalal al-Maghribi*) and go looking for bus loads of men, women, and children to butcher → civilian targets.



P F Tinmore said:


> Like sleeping at home with the wife and kids?
> 
> Israel is soooooo full of shit.


*(REFERENCE)*

2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

(a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:​​(i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of *paragraph 2 of Article 52 [ Link ]*  and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;​​(ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;​​(iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive _*in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated*_;​
*(COMMENT)*

What is important is found in *Article 57(2)(a)(iii)* which you all too often try to bury under emotionally packed pro-Arab Palestinian sentiment.  If the military commander's intent is to gain a _concrete and direct military advantage _after the attack, then such an attack is covered by International Humanitarian Law.

Another point you constantly raise is the one about the complaint in the destruction of housing.  Not in always the case, but in some cases,  where a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being is being used as cover and concealment or safehouse in direct support of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) purposes within the West Bank or Jerusalem, such a structure may be demolished or destroyed to prevent a further use by those HoAP element that have pledged  that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the occupation force or any segment of the civilian population...  

*(AΩ)* I think it is relatively naive of you to think that any self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign is a 9-to-5 job. The detection exploitation and neutralization (DEN) of HoAP operations is a 24/7 offensive program. The HoAP do not get to claim "end-of-day - I'm free and off the clock." They already know that the self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign never stops. And if the HoAP fail to follow the seven rules, the uninvolved Arab Palestinians may pay the price. And people like you canNOT claim foul.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> If the high value target is sleeping with the "wife and kids" - the "wife and kids" constitutes a shield for the target, "_*you cannot target me because I am with the wife and kids*_."  In what world does that make sense?  *(**RHETORICAL**)*  It is not like the Israelis are acting like Arab Palestinians (*example: The Palestinian Role Model Dalal al-Maghribi*) and go looking for bus loads of men, women, and children to butcher → civilian targets.
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:
> 
> (a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:​​(i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of *paragraph 2 of Article 52 [ Link ]*  and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;​​(ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;​​(iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive _*in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated*_;​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is important is found in *Article 57(2)(a)(iii)* which you all too often try to bury under emotionally packed pro-Arab Palestinian sentiment.  If the military commander's intent is to gain a _concrete and direct military advantage _after the attack, then such an attack is covered by International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> Another point you constantly raise is the one about the complaint in the destruction of housing.  Not in always the case, but in some cases,  where a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being is being used as cover and concealment or safehouse in direct support of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) purposes within the West Bank or Jerusalem, such a structure may be demolished or destroyed to prevent a further use by those HoAP element that have pledged  that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the occupation force or any segment of the civilian population...
> 
> *(AΩ)* I think it is relatively naive of you to think that any self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign is a 9-to-5 job. The detection exploitation and neutralization (DEN) of HoAP operations is a 24/7 offensive program. The HoAP do not get to claim "end-of-day - I'm free and off the clock." They already know that the self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign never stops. And if the HoAP fail to follow the seven rules, the uninvolved Arab Palestinians may pay the price. And people like you canNOT claim foul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


I smell Israeli bullshit. Not a rocket in sight, Not a gun in sight. Not a military vehicle in sight. Not a uniform in sight. Not a flag in sight.

What is Israel's so called military advantage? You will duck this question, as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> If the high value target is sleeping with the "wife and kids" - the "wife and kids" constitutes a shield for the target, "_*you cannot target me because I am with the wife and kids*_."  In what world does that make sense?  *(**RHETORICAL**)*  It is not like the Israelis are acting like Arab Palestinians (*example: The Palestinian Role Model Dalal al-Maghribi*) and go looking for bus loads of men, women, and children to butcher → civilian targets.
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:
> 
> (a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:​​(i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of *paragraph 2 of Article 52 [ Link ]*  and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;​​(ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;​​(iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive _*in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated*_;​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is important is found in *Article 57(2)(a)(iii)* which you all too often try to bury under emotionally packed pro-Arab Palestinian sentiment.  If the military commander's intent is to gain a _concrete and direct military advantage _after the attack, then such an attack is covered by International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> Another point you constantly raise is the one about the complaint in the destruction of housing.  Not in always the case, but in some cases,  where a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being is being used as cover and concealment or safehouse in direct support of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) purposes within the West Bank or Jerusalem, such a structure may be demolished or destroyed to prevent a further use by those HoAP element that have pledged  that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the occupation force or any segment of the civilian population...
> 
> *(AΩ)* I think it is relatively naive of you to think that any self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign is a 9-to-5 job. The detection exploitation and neutralization (DEN) of HoAP operations is a 24/7 offensive program. The HoAP do not get to claim "end-of-day - I'm free and off the clock." They already know that the self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign never stops. And if the HoAP fail to follow the seven rules, the uninvolved Arab Palestinians may pay the price. And people like you canNOT claim foul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I will have you know that these thoughts are my thoughts - and NOT some "Israeli bullshit" as you would like to believe; and have others believe.



P F Tinmore said:


> I smell Israeli bullshit. Not a rocket in sight, Not a gun in sight. Not a military vehicle in sight. Not a uniform in sight. Not a flag in sight.


*(COMMENT)*

And I really do not care what your _ad Hominem_ attack is based.  If you want to discuss the concept and content of the "FACTs" that I have annotated by official sources, then let's do so.



P F Tinmore said:


> What is Israel's so called military advantage? You will duck this question, as usual.


*(COMMENT)*

The Military Commander's intent is in the Operations Order (OPORD) for the mission.  And obviously, you did not read my commentary or check the references.   *IF* you had bothered to check the Protocol *THEN* you would have understood that it stipulates:  "*in the circumstances ruling at the time*, offers a definite military advantage."  No doubt that you will say that I ducked the question.  Well, then so be it.  I would NOT have access to a foreign military mission OPORD even if you had provided the necessary information required to identify that OPORD from all the other OPORDs.

You would also have seen, if you had done the research, that:  "State practice indicates that an *attacker is not prevented from attacking military objectives* if the defender fails to take appropriate precautions or deliberately uses civilians to shield military operations."

This is what you are attempting to support.  This is what the Seven Critical Rules (on this narrow topic) are in *Posting #21884* (Rules 23-24).





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I will have you know that these thoughts are my thoughts - and NOT some "Israeli bullshit" as you would like to believe; and have others believe.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And I really do not care what your _ad Hominem_ attack is based.  If you want to discuss the concept and content of the "FACTs" that I have annotated by official sources, then let's do so.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Military Commander's intent is in the Operations Order (OPORD) for the mission.  And obviously, you did not read my commentary or check the references.   *IF* you had bothered to check the Protocol *THEN* you would have understood that it stipulates:  "*in the circumstances ruling at the time*, offers a definite military advantage."  No doubt that you will say that I ducked the question.  Well, then so be it.  I would NOT have access to a foreign military mission OPORD even if you had provided the necessary information required to identify that OPORD from all the other OPORDs.
> 
> You would also have seen, if you had done the research, that:  "State practice indicates that an *attacker is not prevented from attacking military objectives* if the defender fails to take appropriate precautions or deliberately uses civilians to shield military operations."
> 
> This is what you are attempting to support.  This is what the Seven Critical Rules (on this narrow topic) are in *Posting #21884* (Rules 23-24).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Israel bombs thousands of homes yet kills only a couple hundred fighters.

Your numbers don't add up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombs thousands of homes yet kills only a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers don't add up.


Your numbers don't add up.

Russian learned propaganda.

Exaggerate, lie, make ignorant people believe you.

How many people have you been able to recruit against Israel so far?  Any luck, yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Samah Sabawi’s article is a disappointing confirmation that many supporters of the Palestinian cause appear incapable of seeing any Palestinian faults. She uses highly emotional language that paints Palestinians as blameless victims and Israelis as brutal overlords, all while taking great care to strip out any facts or context that might hint at the deeper complexity of the Israeli–Palestinian dispute and the legitimate claims and bad choices made on both sides.

By casting Palestinians as one-dimensional victims, Sabawi and those like her deny Palestinians agency and thus strip them of their humanity. The human condition is that people — individuals and societies — do have agency. Palestinians are not automatons. They have the ability to make choices, and sometimes those choices are bad.

-------
Israel has been prepared to negotiate a two-state outcome since 1993, but Palestinian rejectionism has prevented Israel from doing so. A unilateral withdrawal might be an option, but it’s worth remembering that the last time Israel did that — in 2005, from Gaza — it was repaid with tens of thousands of rockets and three wars. There’s little chance of a similar move taking place, especially since, unlike Gaza, the West Bank abuts Israel’s urban, industrial, and commercial centres. As I’ve written elsewhere, Israel doesn’t want a Hamas-run, Gaza-like, rocket-spewing entity to emerge in the West Bank, and won’t be leaving until it is convinced the Palestinians are both willing and able to keep the peace.

This puts Israel in the horns of a dilemma; Israel faces mounting pressure for maintaining an occupation it doesn’t want, but cannot make peace because the Palestinians won’t let it. The Palestinians abandoned negotiations because they discovered that by pursuing an internationalist path, such as through the UN and associated treaty bodies, they were able to gain significant leverage over Israel without having to make any of those compromises that negotiations demand of all sides.

The strategic corner into which Palestinian rejectionism has wedged Israel is a key reason as to why Israel is considering this move. It would be wrong to argue that Israel is making this move only because of Palestinian rejectionism, but it’s absolutely correct to argue that if the Palestinians hadn’t so consistently rejected Israeli attempts at peace, they wouldn’t be facing this predicament now.

Anyone who tells you the Israeli–Palestinian dispute is simple is either lying or ignorant. But what is simple is that true peace will only come about through negotiations. It is time for Palestinians to choose to return to the negotiating table — for their sake, for Israel’s sake and for the sake of peace. Palestinians can choose. They have agency. Will they choose peace or will they, yet again, choose violence? What is clear is, they have a choice. They have agency. And, like all people, they should be held accountable for the choices they make.

(full article online)









						Peace is not served by denying complexity
					

The tendency among many supporters of the Palestinian cause, like Samah Sabawi, to cast Palestinians as blameless victims and Israelis as brutal overlords, while stripping away the complexity of the Israeli–Palestinian dispute and ignoring the legitimate claims and bad choices made on both...



					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Sixties Fan

( More Child Abuse.  Every child led to be taught and believe fear for Jews, so that they must be expelled or killed.  Child Abuse of the worse kind, because then they grow up and want do become murderers. But this girl may only become a leader of those who will be incited to attack and kill Jews all over the world )


“Not a single settler, Israeli, or Jew will remain in our land. We will liberate Palestine, Allah willing.”

Those are the words of a young Palestinian girl. But not just any girl. Mayar Jaradat is the daughter of one of the terrorists who recently murdered 25-year-old Israeli Yehuda Dimentman in a shooting attack west of Nablus.











Mayar’s statement reflects PA education that instructs Palestinian children to see Israel as a temporary phenomenon, an illegitimate state that will come to an end after which “Palestine” will take its place.

The statement that “not a single settler, Israeli, or Jew will remain in our land” is pretty unambiguous. “Palestine” will be “Judenrein” - clean of Jews - to quote an infamous familiar term. How exactly this is to come about the girl didn’t say, but given her terrorist father’s actions this aspiration would seem to not merely be an abstract concept but rather a plan to be carried out on the ground.

The notion that terror is a Palestinian right and that dying as a “Martyr” is an ideal is also taught to Palestinian kids through Fatah’s magazine Waed for children ages 6-15, as recently exposed in a report by Palestinian Media Watch.

Fatah reminds its child readers of the Movement’s announcement after its first terror attack on Jan. 1, 1965, presenting it as an expression of its current ideology:



> “[It is] our people’s right to wage an armed struggle to take back its stolen homeland.” (Waed, Issue 28, p. 4)


Fatah also presents mass murderers as heroic role models, including the “Martyr” Dalal Mughrabi who in 1978 led the Coastal Road massacre. Palestinian terrorists hijacked a bus and murdered 37 Israeli civilians, including 12 children - the deadliest terror attack in Israeli history.

In Waed, Fatah also teaches children that “Palestine” will replace the entire State of Israel

(full article online)









						“We’ll liberate the land, not a single Jew will remain,” says daughter of terrorist murderer | PMW Analysis
					

All of Israel - including Lod, Ramle, the Negev, Jaffa, and Haifa - is ”Palestine” and “belongs to us,” according to Fatah official




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​SUBTOPIC: Knowledge of Presentation
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

OH, the role of knowledge here is crippled.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombs thousands of homes yet kills only a couple hundred fighters.
> Your numbers don't add up.


(COMMENT)

Thousands of homes bombed...  How did you come by this knowledge?

Only a couple hundred fighters killed.  How did you come by this knowledge?

I actually do not recall ever seeing a Battle Damage Assessment (BDA).  I think have seen evidence that:

•  HAMAS Fighters used ambulances as personnel transport.​•  I have seen HAMAS fighters dressed in civilian clothes.​•  I have seen evidence of rockets being stored in UNRWA School facilities.​
I could go on, but I have run out of steam.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Some really horrible euphemisms used to throw a burqa on the reality of greed, corruption and thievery that plagues both Islamic terrorist franchises. 

These bottomless pits of welfare fraud should be cut off from international welfare. 












						February Meeting Confirms Palestinian Leadership Needs an Israeli Bailout
					

Israeli-Palestinian security coordination is also indispensable for Israel and the Palestinian Authority.




					nationalinterest.org
				




Like someone drowning, the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah is flailing about, barely keeping its head above water. Israel should throw Ramallah a life raft, but it must be careful not to allow itself to get pulled under.


----------



## Hollie

The peaceful inner strugglers occupying Gaza are having their Shia Mullocrsts in Tehran issue press releases. 





__





						Hamas: Intensified Resistance against Israeli Terrorism Necessary - World news - Tasnim News Agency
					

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas rapped the murder of three Palestinians in the occupied West Bank in less than 24 hours as a “serious” escalation that should be met with intensified resistance.




					www.tasnimnews.com
				





TEHRAN (Tasnim) – The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas rapped the murder of three Palestinians in the occupied West Bank in less than 24 hours as a “serious” escalation that should be met with intensified resistance.​“There is no way to deter the (Israeli) occupation except by more force,” the national relations department of Hamas in the West Bank said in a statement on Wednesday, according to the Palestinian Information Center.


----------



## Hollie




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## Hollie




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## Hollie




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## Hollie

Stolen welfare money provides quite the luxurious lifestyle.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. Those poor, oppressed, attention seeking pals have a good reason to oppose the war in Ukraine.









						Palestinians say war in Ukraine will hurt their cause
					

They also fear that Ukrainian Jewish refugees to Israel will be sent to live in West Bank settlements




					m.jpost.com
				




Palestinian officials and the Palestinian public are warning that the war in Ukraine will hurt their cause and leave them searching for international attention.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The suffering of those poor, oppressed Pallys. 









						GOOD NEWS: Thanks to UN Watch Pressure, UNRWA Teachers Complain: “We can no longer praise Hamas attacks on social media” - UN Watch
					

Rare good news: Thanks to UN Watch’s relentless campaign, UNRWA teachers are now complaining that they are unable to glorify Hamas terrorists on social media, or incite hatred and violence towards Jews and Israelis. The article below from the anti-Israel Electronic Intifada website, “UNRWA...



					unwatch.org
				




Rare good news: Thanks to UN Watch’s relentless campaign, UNRWA teachers are now complaining that they are unable to glorify Hamas terrorists on social media, or incite hatred and violence towards Jews and Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian You Should Know: Loubna Noor Qutami​


----------



## Hollie

I suppose this means the Pallys will have lost another of welfare money that finances their greed and corruption. 










						Australia officially lists all of Hamas as a terrorist group
					

Proscribing an organization in Australia makes it illegal to give it funds, support or services.




					m.jpost.com
				




Australia on Friday listed the entire Palestinian Islamist group Hamas as a terrorist organization, calling the move a deterrent to political and religious violence and bringing Australia in line with the United States, the European Union and Britain.


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem squatters are so ungrateful. The gee-had requires sacrifice. 












						Palestinians vent against Hamas in rare online event
					

It is rare to hear criticism of Hamas in Gaza, but Palestinians have found a way to air their anger.



					www.bbc.com
				





They Kidnapped Gaza began as an audio discussion on Twitter on Thursday. 

"Imagine your one-month-old son dies because of the cold. Imagine your son dying because there is no electricity, no money, no wages and no home," said Mahmoud Nashwan.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had is a losing game.


----------



## Hollie

An Islamic terrorist adoption. How nice.










						Fatah and the Palestinian Authority adopt the three terrorists killed in Nablus - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

On February 8, 2022, during an Israeli security force activity in Nablus three Palestinian terrorists were killed. They were members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (Fatah's military terrorist wing) and responsible for a recent series of shooting attacks targeting IDF forces and Israeli...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The Islamic gee-had bluster is flowing from the terrorist mouthpieces.

Threats and bluster are standard fare for these misfits.











						Islamic Jihad vows to avenge killing of two members in Jenin
					

“The [Israeli] enemy will pay dearly for its crimes,” PIJ said in a statement shortly after the armed clashes in the camp.




					m.jpost.com
				










“The [Israeli] enemy will pay dearly for its crimes,” PIJ said in a statement shortly after the armed clashes in the camp.


----------



## Hollie




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## Hollie

​







						PLO renounces all agreements with Israel | PMW Analysis
					

PLO on terror path: "We are outside of the path of Oslo, the security coordination... we have entered a path of resistance in all its forms




					palwatch.org
				




PLO renounces all agreements with Israel​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 6, 2022

*PLO on terror path: "We are outside of the path of Oslo, the security coordination... we have entered a path of resistance in all its forms*​
Speaking after the recent meeting of the Palestinian National Council (PNC), its Deputy Chairman Ali Faisal clarified that there is a binding Palestinian decision to “renounce… all agreements with Israel.” He added that from the point of view of the Palestinian leadership, the Palestinians “have entered a path of resistance in all its forms” – a term that clearly includes the use of violence and terror.



> *Palestinian National Council Deputy Chairman Ali Faisal:* “The decision of the [Palestinian] National Council was *a recommendation to the [PLO] Central Council to renounce all the commitments of the Oslo Accords and stop the security coordination [with Israel]. Now there is a binding decision. The Central Council decided to renounce the commitments of all the agreements with the State of Israel, whether by the PLO or the PA. Currently we are outside the path of Oslo, the security coordination, and the economic Paris Agreement* (see note below -Ed.), *and we have entered a path of resistance in all its forms* and a realization of sovereignty.”
> [Official PA TV, _From Beirut_, Feb. 18, 2022]





Oh, dear, The Islamic Terrorist franchise that has a singular goal of killing Israelis has announced they’re upset with Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLO renounces all agreements with Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PLO on terror path: "We are outside of the path of Oslo, the security coordination... we have entered a path of resistance in all its forms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> ​PLO renounces all agreements with Israel​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 6, 2022
> 
> *PLO on terror path: "We are outside of the path of Oslo, the security coordination... we have entered a path of resistance in all its forms*​
> Speaking after the recent meeting of the Palestinian National Council (PNC), its Deputy Chairman Ali Faisal clarified that there is a binding Palestinian decision to “renounce… all agreements with Israel.” He added that from the point of view of the Palestinian leadership, the Palestinians “have entered a path of resistance in all its forms” – a term that clearly includes the use of violence and terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, dear, The Islamic Terrorist franchise that has a singular goal of killing Israelis has announced they’re upset with Israel.


Does that mean there is no more areas A, B, and C?


----------



## Hollie

Ahh. A pally ''psychologist'' in the service of the gee-had.










						Tell kids “Israelis are evil” - Palestinian psychologist on how to explain why Israel doesn’t release terrorist fathers | PMW Analysis
					

The Israelis “are evil” – that’s the simple message a Palestinian psychologist suggests mothers offer their children when they need to explain why the children’s imprisoned terrorist fathers “can’t leave prison.”




					palwatch.org
				




Tell kids “Israelis are evil” - Palestinian psychologist on how to explain why Israel doesn’t release terrorist fathers​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 7, 2022




The Israelis “are evil” – that’s the simple message a Palestinian psychologist suggests mothers offer their children when they need to explain why the children’s imprisoned terrorist fathers “can’t leave prison.”

This false explanation fits in with the rest of the PA narrative that terrorists are heroes and, in PA Chairman Abbas’ words, “the most sanctified we have.” In other words, Palestinian terrorist prisoners – among them mass murderers – have done nothing wrong, rather they are victims of the “evil” Israelis:


----------



## Mindful

FACT

One of the three prerequisites to Israel’s recognition of the PLO and subsequent peace negotiations was that the Palestinians cease all terrorism against Israel. Yet, almost from the day Yasser Arafat sent this promise to Yitzhak Rabin in 1993, assaults have continued. The heinous attacks conducted in the 1990s sabotaged the Oslo process and the second intifada, combined with the terror and rocket attacks following Israel’s disengagement from Gaza, convinced most Israelis further territorial concessions would endanger their security.


Myths and Facts. AICE.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> FACT
> 
> One of the three prerequisites to Israel’s recognition of the PLO and subsequent peace negotiations was that the Palestinians cease all terrorism against Israel. Yet, almost from the day Yasser Arafat sent this promise to Yitzhak Rabin in 1993, assaults have continued. The heinous attacks conducted in the 1990s sabotaged the Oslo process and the second intifada, combined with the terror and rocket attacks following Israel’s disengagement from Gaza, convinced most Israelis further territorial concessions would endanger their security.
> 
> 
> Myths and Facts. AICE.





Mindful said:


> One of the three prerequisites to Israel’s recognition of the PLO and subsequent peace negotiations was that the Palestinians cease all terrorism against Israel.


Indeed, it was a one sided agreement.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, it was a one sided agreement.



Why did Arab supremacists sign it?


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> Why did Arab supremacists sign it?


Indeed.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Buried later in the article is the grudging admission that, yeah, Palestinian women are beaten by their husbands, and the Palestinian leadership is not adhering to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, but that is only a side issue. Female prisoners are the overarching human rights issue.

Another article about International Women's Day in Ma'an looks at the numbers of interest to Palestinian women. It identifies exactly how many female prisoners there are in Israeli prison.

32.

It also highlights the amazing fact that roughly half of Palestinians are women. 

And, by the way, it also mentions that (as of 2019, because how important are these statistics anyway?) that 13.4% of Palestinian women are married before age 18, 57.2% of women were subjected to psychological violence “at least once” in the previous year, 18.5% of women were subjected to physical violence “at least once” in the previous year, and 9.4% of women were subjected to sexual violence “at least once” in that timeframe.

This means that literally hundreds of thousands of Palestinian are being raped or beaten by their husbands - but the 32 female terrorists in Israeli prisons are what Palestinians want to talk about. Which means that this obsession with attacking Israel actually hurts Palestinian women by making issues of actual abuse secondary to their insatiable drive to make everything about Israel.

Which Western feminists are calling attention to this problem? 

(full article online)









						For Palestinians, International Women's Day is another excuse to incite against Israel - and ignore gender based violence
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The number of Molotov cocktails increased 35%, from 101 to 136. And the number of pipe bombs soared from 17 to 29.  Small arms fire more than doubled, from 6 to 14 incidents.

The media doesn't bother covering these attacks, and luckily none of them were fatal, but firebombs are still firebombs - and they are hurled multiple times daily at Jews. An average of one pipe bomb a day is something to be alarmed over, not complacent about.






The good news is that there were no rockets or mortars fired from Gaza in January.












						35% increase in Molotov cocktails, 70% increase in Palestinian pipe bombs in February
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Is it any surprise that an Islamic terrorist dystopia maintained by an Islamic terrorist dictator is not really concerned with human rights?

Maybe if we just gave them more welfare money?












						Palestinians: The Human Rights Violations No One Talks About
					

Under the current circumstances, the Biden administration is stating that it wants to facilitate Abbas' creation of another Arab dictatorship that suppresses public freedoms and sanctions torture and




					www.jewishpress.com
				




A report published on January 29 by the Palestinian NGO International Commission to Support Palestinian Rights (ICSPR), which seeks to raise awareness of human rights among Palestinians, revealed that the year 2021 witnessed severe setbacks in the exercise of public rights and freedoms under the PA in the West Bank.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Felesteen reports that Louay al-Taweel, a 14 year old boy from the Gaza Strip, died in a West Bank hospital, after it declined to provide treatment.

The reason? The Palestinian Authority in Ramallah refused to pay for his treatment.

Al-Taweel had brain cancer.

Louay's family managed to get him to the Augusta Victoria Hospital, an Arab hospital in Jerusalem, a month ago. Doctors there refused to treat him without payment, and the PA refused to pay. The family had to pay 120 shekels just to get them to do a checkup and open a file on the boy.







They were then sent back to Gaza and told to arrange the funding before returning. Upon his return home, Louay's condition deteriorated and he was admitted to one Gaza hospital, transferred to another, then a third, until he died. He was buried on Tuesday.


There are lots of NGOs that track every Gaza patient that may not get permits from Israel, hoping that the patients die so they can add one more thing to blame on Israel. But here, Israel clearly gave a permit for young Louay to get treatment. It was the Palestinian Authority that decided not to pay, sentencing the teen to death. It is one of many such decisions by the Palestinian Authority to inflict collective punishment on Gaza residents because of its rivalry with Hamas.










						A Palestinian child from Gaza is refused medical care and dies of cancer. But Israel cannot be blamed, so no one cares.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

With the growing awareness that funding Islamic terrorism allows Islamic terrorism to continue, the Islamic terrorists are seeing a threat to their welfare fraud / personal fortunes at some risk. 












						The clear effectiveness of Israel’s Anti ‘Pay-for-Slay’ law in creating pressure on the PA | PMW Analysis
					

If anyone had any doubts regarding the effectiveness of Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law in putting economic pressure on the Palestinian Authority, none other than the PA's Prime Minister, Muhammad Shtayyeh, removed those doubts.




					palwatch.org
				




The clear effectiveness of Israel’s Anti ‘Pay-for-Slay’ law in creating pressure on the PA​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 9, 2022
If anyone had any doubts regarding the effectiveness of Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law in putting economic pressure on the Palestinian Authority, none other than the PA's Prime Minister, Muhammad Shtayyeh, removed those doubts.
Referring to the alleged financial crisis that the PA is currently facing, the PA Prime Minister claimed that Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law is the main reason for the PA's financial problems:


> “The occupation is the primary cause of the financial crisis that we are facing, and the difficult situation that we are being subjected to is a result of *Israel’s ongoing measures that steal our money* and prevent us from being able to reach and take advantage of Area C (i.e., land under full Israeli administration according to the Oslo Accords), in addition to limitations that it is placing on the freedom of the movement of goods and people.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 1, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> With the growing awareness that funding Islamic terrorism allows Islamic terrorism to continue, the Islamic terrorists are seeing a threat to their welfare fraud / personal fortunes at some risk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clear effectiveness of Israel’s Anti ‘Pay-for-Slay’ law in creating pressure on the PA | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> If anyone had any doubts regarding the effectiveness of Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law in putting economic pressure on the Palestinian Authority, none other than the PA's Prime Minister, Muhammad Shtayyeh, removed those doubts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clear effectiveness of Israel’s Anti ‘Pay-for-Slay’ law in creating pressure on the PA​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 9, 2022
> If anyone had any doubts regarding the effectiveness of Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law in putting economic pressure on the Palestinian Authority, none other than the PA's Prime Minister, Muhammad Shtayyeh, removed those doubts.
> Referring to the alleged financial crisis that the PA is currently facing, the PA Prime Minister claimed that Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law is the main reason for the PA's financial problems:




Responding on behalf of P F Tinmore

''Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.    ''


----------



## Hollie

Looks like another Islamic terrorist looking to fulfill the 72 virgins fantasy.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> Looks like another Islamic terrorist looking to fulfill the 72 virgins fantasy.




Responding on behalf of P F Tinmore

''Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.    ''


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


----------



## Hollie

Something of the diseased legacy defining Pal islamism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Predictably, Islamic Jihad issued a statement saying that they "strongly condemned the reception of the head of the Zionist entity, Isaac Herzog, in Turkey."

Hamas' condemnation didn't mention Turkey, though. They merely said thsat Hamas "followed with great concern the visits of officials and leaders of the Zionist entity to a number of Arab and Islamic countries, the most recent of which was the visits of the President of the Zionist entity, Isaac Herzog to a number of countries in the region." 

Echoing the Elder of Zion myth, Hamas called on regional Muslim countries into "not giving the Zionist entity the opportunity to penetrate the region and tamper with the interests of its people." 

Hamas is very nervous. If Turkey desires closer relations with Israel - and it does, as its economy is in bad shape - then Israel can demand that Turkey minimize its ties with the largest Palestinian terror group. Hamas gets lots of aid from Turkey. But even Turkish media has been cooling towards Hamas over the past year. 

(full article online)









						Hamas nervous about Herzog visit to Turkey
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Written by Ghania Malhis, it is titled, "Which is more dangerous to humanity: Russia and China or the United States of America?"

Of course, she says it is the US. Her first example is that the US is the only nation to use an atom bomb.

Her second example of how terrible the US is is a doozy:


> The United States of America - which defends human rights - along with a number of Western European democracies, closed its borders in the face of Eastern European Jews fleeing the Nazi massacres. To push them to the only outlet that was opened for them in Palestine, and the British Mandate supervised its preparation to receive them, and then recruit them into a functional state, needed by the colonial West to carry out the mission of an advanced military base at the center of the region to divide the the extended Arab-Islamic region. To undertake to perpetuate its fragmentation, impede its advancement, and prevent it from regaining its unity. And thus contribute to the perpetuation of imperialist hegemony over its capabilities.


That's a lot to unpack, all of it ahistorical nonsense. But to Palestinian thinking, the tragedy of the Holocaust wasn't that millions of Jews were killed, but that some of the survivors went to Palestine. 

The rest of the article is equally insane, where she cherry picks things she doesn't like about the US while barely saying a negative word about China or Russia. What she says is through the bizarre lens of Palestinians being the center of the universe while justifying the Russian invasion:




> And because we in Palestine have experienced more than the bitterness of forced uprooting from the homeland and the humiliation of asylum. And we are still living its woes for the eighth decade in a row. We and our brothers among the sons of the Arab peoples in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen are the most affected by the humanitarian repercussions of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. A country that over many centuries constituted a vital part of Russian history and geography. It became independent from it in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union and the disintegration of its states. And its political system mobilized to consolidate its independence and sovereignty by seeking to join the European Union and NATO, and Russia considered it an intolerable strategic threat to its national security.


Seriously - she says that Palestinians are the most affected by the Ukraine crisis. Not, you know, Ukrainians.

This is not an op-ed columnist, but a respected researcher who has written fairly widely in academic circles.

(full article online)









						Palestinian think-tank says Palestinians are the biggest victims of Ukraine crisis
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Something of the diseased legacy defining Pal islamism.





> Are not "#Palestinian" acts of terrorism #WarCrimes? WHY NOT???



With all of Israel's bitching and name calling, why hasn't any Palestinian been taken to the Hague?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Seems the islamic terrorists are in a bit of a kerfuffle about an Israeli representative visiting Turkey. Their fear must be that the Turkish government will see advantages to relations with Israel that are just not possible with Shia linked islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Another example of the depravity that exists in an insular subculture that glorifies mass murder / suicide.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Another example of the depravity that exists in an insular subculture that glorifies mass murder / suicide.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Professor G.  Oh, Gee !!!!!!

This video belongs in the Palestinians and their lies thread.


Quack !!!!


----------



## Ropey

> Who Are The Palestinians?











						Hamas’ Execution of Commander Accused of Being Gay Underscores Internal Divisions - The Tower
					

Hamas’ execution of its own commander last month suggests a widening schism among leaders of the terrorist group as well as a loss of authority in the Gaza Strip. Mahmoud Ishtiwi, a senior figure in the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades who commanded 1,000 men during Hamas’ 2014 war with Israel, was...




					www.thetower.org
				




These are Palestinians. This is what they do to their own ... while they await emigration to the US.


----------



## Hollie

It is an unfortunate fact that tremendous resources are expended both in Israel and around the world to combat Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Pal Islamic terrorist "apartheid"

Abbas arrests Christian man and closes institution he heads because he hosted a Jew – “extremist settler Yehuda Glick”​








						Abbas arrests Christian man and closes institution he heads because he hosted a Jew – “extremist settler Yehuda Glick” | PMW Analysis
					

Following a visit by former Israeli MP the PA closed the Christian institution Beit Al-Liqa’ for a week and arrested the head of the association




					palwatch.org
				



Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 10, 2022
Recently, PA Chairman Abbas stressed the successful and harmonious coexistence between Palestinian Christians and Muslims, stressing that “Christians and Muslims fight together against their enemy (i.e., Jews/Israelis), because we have been the owners of this land since this land’s existence.”

But the mutual love and understanding only go as far as Abbas allows. If you are a Christian and stray from the path of “fighting the enemy” Israel, you will be punished.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“One of the best heroic operations” is how a released Palestinian prisoner described the murder of 10 Israelis in 2002.

Shooting with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002, terrorist Thaer Hammad killed 10 Israelis - 3 civilians and 7 soldiers.

For this Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences.

For this Thaer Hammad has already been paid 829,500 shekels/252,403 US dollars by the PA. Every month the PA pays him an additional 7,000 shekels/2,251 US dollars.

On the anniversary of the attack, a host on official PA TV glorified the murderer, instructing viewers that it is everyone’s “duty” to “send special greetings” to the murderer. Following this invitation, released prisoner Musa Hamed praised the terror attack as “the operation whose voice echoed worldwide” and “one of the best”:

(full article online)









						Murder of 10 was “one of the best heroic operations,” says released prisoner | PMW Analysis
					

PA TV host instructs viewers to glorify murderer of 10: “It is the duty of the Palestinian people to send special greetings to prisoner Thaer Hammad”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Whenever I read the words, ''PA TV host....'', I just know its going to be another islamo-disaster. 











						PA TV host radically misrepresents Israeli broadcast to demonize Jews as “cursing Prophet Muhammad inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque” | PMW Analysis
					

PA TV host distorts Israeli prayer and song, claims it is “hostile” and “caused fear and terror” in Palestinian children




					palwatch.org
				




PA TV host radically misrepresents Israeli broadcast to demonize Jews as “cursing Prophet Muhammad inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Mar 8, 2022

*PA TV host distorts Israeli prayer and song, claims it is “hostile” and “caused fear and terror” in Palestinian children*​


​As part of the PA’s policy to demonize Jews, two hosts on official PA TV have distorted Jewish prayers as being “hostile” to Palestinians, “causing fear and terror,” and “cursing Prophet Muhammad inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque.”

In the PA TV program _From the Israeli Archive_, the PA TV host misrepresented an Israeli news program about the Temple Mount and Jewish prayer there, claiming the Jews “cursed” Islam’s prophet Muhammad.


----------



## Hollie

What's a pally to do? They're being apartheided in Lebanon. 

Maybe we should give them more money. 











						Palestinian professionals banned from work in Lebanon for second time
					

The labor minister had decided in December to allow Palestinians to work in previously barred professions.




					www.jpost.com
				




Lebanon's State Shura Council decided this month to reverse an order issued in December allowing Palestinian refugees to work in trade-union regulated professions, after complaints that the order would encroach on the rights of Lebanese professionals and claims that the order was trying to pave the way for naturalizing Palestinian refugees.


----------



## Hollie

it’s a bit like the Crips and the Bloods going to war over turf. 











						Hamas calls for probe into PA corruption
					

Hamas yesterday called for a full investigation to be carried out into corruption in the Palestinian Authority (PA) following a 'shocking' report issued by the State Audit Administrative Bureau.  ...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				





Hamas yesterday called for a full investigation to be carried out into corruption in the Palestinian Authority (PA) following a "shocking" report issued by the State Audit Administrative Bureau.

In a statement, Hamas spokesperson Hazem Qasem said: "The shocking corruption of the PA's institutions and the PA government in Ramallah revealed by the State Audit Administrative Bureau reiterated the necessity to open a real and full investigation into the PA's corruption."


----------



## Hollie

Today's reason for whining and moaning by the islamic terrorists is the thought of displaced Ukranian Jews moving to Israel. 













						PA: 1000’s of murdered Ukrainian civilians and 2 million refugees is less a disaster than 2,000 Jews immigrating to Israel | PMW Analysis
					

“Disaster for one [Ukrainians] is a greater disaster for another [Palestinians],” says official PA daily




					palwatch.org
				




PA: 2 million Ukrainian refugees is less a tragedy than 2,000 Ukrainian Jews moving to Israel​Itamar Marcus  | Mar 13, 2022

*“Disaster for one [Ukrainians] is a greater disaster for another [Palestinians],” says official PA daily *​
*Question:* What is worse than 2 million Ukrainian refugees and thousands of Ukrainians being murdered?

*Answer: *2000 Ukrainian Jews moving to Israel - according to the official PA daily.
The official PA daily headlined its article about Israel building 1,000 new housing units for Ukrainian Jews with the words: “Disaster for one [Ukrainians] is a greater disaster for another [Palestinians].” The phrase is a twist of the Arabic proverb: “Disaster for one is profit for another.”  
Based on the often-expressed Palestinian world view that all international events are to be judged only based on how they impact on Palestinians, the PA daily sees the tragedy of thousands of murdered Ukrainian civilians and the flight of 2 million refugees as a lesser tragedy than the “tragedy” of Jewish Ukrainians immigrating to Israel.

Moreover, an additional question should also be asked: Why should the PA be opposed to Jews immigrating to Israel within the pre-1967 cease-fire lines, where the Ukrainian refugee immigrants are to be housed?

The PA answers this in the first sentence of the article:


> “The World Zionist Organization’s Settlement Division announced that it has begun a process to establish 1,000 housing units _*in settlements*_ to absorb Jews fleeing from Ukraine.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 2, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

Indeed.




I don't see Hamas or the PA wanting the profits from their welfare fraud syndicate diluted by the influx of those who someone else should be saddled with.


----------



## Hollie

How strange. We’re told by the propaganda arm of the Pally Cultists, “this is not about religion”, yet, the Pals are making the full court press about “martyrdom”, gee-had and Jew killing all about the inventor of their “religion”. 











						“Martyrdom is a call of Allah… Kidnap a soldier for my children” - Palestinians chant at rally | PMW Analysis
					

“With our souls and our blood, we will sacrifice ourselves… Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem, We will die and Palestine will live” – Fatah official leads chant at rally




					palwatch.org
				





“Martyrdom is a call of Allah… Kidnap a soldier for my children” - Palestinians chant at rally​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 14, 2022

*“With our souls and our blood, we will redeem you... Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem, We will die and Palestine will live” – Fatah official leads chant at rally*​
*“I want to die as a Martyr and meet the Creator” - terrorist who shot at Israeli forces*​
At a recent rally in Ramallah in support of imprisoned Palestinian terrorists, the choice of song by the Palestinian crowd doesn’t leave much to the imagination in terms of what the Palestinians want:









> *Crowd: *“Hey come on, Martyrdom is a call of Allah,
> Martyrdom is a call of Allah…
> O prisoner, worry not!
> Your young ones drink [their enemies’] blood,
> your young ones drink blood…
> The prisoner’s mother calls:
> Kidnap a soldier for my children, kidnap a soldier for my children …
> Put the sword against the sword,
> We are the people of Muhammad Deif (i.e., Hamas terrorist leader)”
> [Official PA TV, Feb. 27, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

The pro-Islamic terrorist groups have a problem with western laws. These groups can spread their religiously inspired hate but when they call for violent attacks, they have crossed a legal boundary. 










						Israel welcomes France’s decision to outlaw two pro-Palestinian groups
					

Pro-Israel groups welcomed the move.




					m.jpost.com
				




Grassroots organizations have protested France’s decision to outlaw two pro-Palestinian groups – Collectif Palestine Vaincra and Comité Action Palestine – due to their calls for hatred, discrimination and violence against Israelis.


----------



## Sixties Fan

At a recent rally in Ramallah in support of imprisoned Palestinian terrorists, the choice of song by the Palestinian crowd doesn’t leave much to the imagination in terms of what the Palestinians want:











> *Crowd: *“Hey come on, Martyrdom is a call of Allah,
> Martyrdom is a call of Allah…
> O prisoner, worry not!
> Your young ones drink [their enemies’] blood,
> your young ones drink blood…
> The prisoner’s mother calls:
> Kidnap a soldier for my children, kidnap a soldier for my children …
> Put the sword against the sword,
> We are the people of Muhammad Deif (i.e., Hamas terrorist leader)”
> [Official PA TV, Feb. 27, 2022]


In other words, according to the message of the song, Allah wants Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” while using violence and terror against Israel – “drink blood” and “put the sword against the sword.” And Palestinians are willing to comply. They are also in favor of kidnapping Israeli soldiers to use as bargaining chips for the release of imprisoned terrorists. This is what the Hamas terror organization did when it kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and held him captured for 5 years until Israel ultimately agreed to release 1,027 of soldiers in exchange for him.

(full article online)









						“Martyrdom is a call of Allah… Kidnap a soldier for my children” - Palestinians chant at rally | PMW Analysis
					

“With our souls and our blood, we will sacrifice ourselves… Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem, We will die and Palestine will live” – Fatah official leads chant at rally




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

He also vowed to “protect the Palestinian project against conspiracies to liquidate the Palestinian issue,” as well as combat normalization between Israel and the Arabs.

The “resistance” factions in the Gaza Strip, he said, stand with the Israeli Arabs and are ready to support them with the weapons that these groups possess.


Addressing the Israeli Arabs, the PIJ official said: “We will not allow anyone to erase our identity and the unity of our people.”

(full article online)









						Gaza factions form body to ‘support’ Israeli Arabs
					

The commission’s goal is to “emphasize the unity of the Palestinian people in all their political, national and geographical locations,” according to the committee.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

During the interrogation, she said, she was accused of participating in Hamas rallies and supporting the families of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli prisons and others killed by the IDF. However, she was not questioned about her alleged “collaboration” with Israel.


“They accused me of donating a sum of $100,000 to people in Nablus and claimed that I was hiding weapons in a Nido milk can at my house,” she said.


Jbara told the court she was held in solitary confinement for 19 days during her incarceration and subjected to strip searches by female officers. Since her release, she said, she has been undergoing psychiatric treatment.


Last year, Jbara’s father, Badran, told the Post he had also been threatened by the PA security forces. He said he had contacted the Panamanian Foreign Ministry to complain about the PA’s threats and the harassment of his daughter.


“I want to leave Turmus Ayya and never come back,” the wealthy businessman said. “There is no security under the Palestinian Authority. It is not safe for businessmen and investors like me. My advice to all Palestinians living abroad: Don’t go to live under the Palestinian Authority. There are no human rights there.”‮

(full article online)









						Palestinian woman recounts torture, abuse in ‘Jericho Slaughterhouse’
					

Suha Jbara’s full testimony, obtained by The Jerusalem Post, sheds light on the harsh methods used by Palestinian interrogators against detainees.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Hollie

A snappy sing-along at a pal wedding. As you might expect, a lot of Great Satan hatred.

Maybe if we just gave them more welfare money?



Song Performed At Palestinian Wedding: 'Harden Your Heart, Oh Putin; Increase Your Attacks... Banish [Ukrainians] To Palestine And We Will Marry Ukrainian Women... We Say To China: Invade Taiwan [To] Smash The Nose Of The Americans'​


----------



## Hollie

Could it be the Islamic terrorist “stabbing gee-had” is going to ramp?





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/08/defense-officials-warn-of-resurgence-of-stabbing-attacks/
		



We are witnessing a troubling sequence of everts that may spread outside the capital," he warned.

Two Border Police officers sustained minor injuries in a ramming attack in Samaria on Monday night.

The incident took place near the Palestinian village of Silat al-Harithiya. Other troops at the scene engaged the terrorist, who is in security forces' custody.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority narrowly avoided a strike of the Palestinian doctors. The doctors were set to strike because the PA has failed to implement promises it made to the doctors to improve their pay.

Explaining why it could not fulfill its promises to the doctors, the PA Ministry of Health blamed the “stoppage of external aid” and the effects of Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law - the Israeli law designed to combat the PA’s huge payments to terrorists – what the PA Ministry of Health referred to as the “theft of tax money… as a result of the national position that adheres to principles”:



> “The [PA] Ministry of Health called on the Doctor’s Union not to implement the measures of escalation that were announced in a statement it issued on Feb. 25 [2022], and not to turn to a strike in the [PA] governmental health sector at this difficult and sensitive time…
> The ministry said that the [PA] government and the ministry are in a difficult situation in light of the lack of financial resources, *the stoppage of external aid*, and the *theft of tax money by the occupation and it taking a large part of our money as a result of the national position that adheres to the principles*. The ministry also noted that the political pressures that the Israeli occupation authorities are exerting on the leadership have caused a suffocating financial crisis that still exists.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 4, 2022]


Indeed, since Palestinian Media Watch exposed the PA’s payments to terrorists, foreign aid to the PA has dropped by 90%. A substantial part of the foreign aid was lost when the US passed the Taylor Force Act, which conditions the bulk of US aid to the PA on its abolition of its payments to terrorists. 

At the same time, Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law, is also having an increased effect.

However, despite the mounting pressure, the PA stubbornly clings to “the national position that adheres to principles,” and insists on continuing to reward terrorists.

A comparison of the PA’s payments to terrorists, with the PA’s payments to the Palestinian doctors, clearly demonstrates the PA’s distorted priorities.

The PA pays every Palestinian terrorist arrested by Israel a monthly salary. The starting terrorist “salary” of 1,400 shekels ($450) rises automatically with time spent in prison, reaching a huge 12,000 shekels ($3,859). The following chart, based on the PA’s 2004 Law of Prisoners and Released Prisoners and its implementing regulations, shows the terrorist prisoners “pay scale”:

(full article online)










						Pay the doctors, not the terrorists! | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority narrowly avoided a strike of the Palestinian doctors. The doctors were set to strike because the PA has failed to implement promises it made to the doctors to improve their pay.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

It didn't take long for the islamic terrorists to find Tik Tok as another means to exploit their children.


----------



## Hollie

“*We are ready with our disposable children*”


----------



## Hollie

Somehow, I don’t see the Islamic terrorists making any effort to manage the affairs normally associated with government. Money thrown away paying doctors is money taken away from Islamic terrorist salaries and Hamas / PA bank accounts.










						Pay the doctors, not the terrorists! | PMW Analysis
					

The Palestinian Authority narrowly avoided a strike of the Palestinian doctors. The doctors were set to strike because the PA has failed to implement promises it made to the doctors to improve their pay.




					palwatch.org
				





Pay the doctors, not the terrorists!​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 15, 2022
The Palestinian Authority narrowly avoided a strike of the Palestinian doctors. The doctors were set to strike because the PA has failed to implement promises it made to the doctors to improve their pay.
Explaining why it could not fulfill its promises to the doctors, the PA Ministry of Health blamed the “stoppage of external aid” and the effects of Israel’s Anti “Pay-for-Slay” law - the Israeli law designed to combat the PA’s huge payments to terrorists – what the PA Ministry of Health referred to as the “theft of tax money… as a result of the national position that adheres to principles”:


> “The [PA] Ministry of Health called on the Doctor’s Union not to implement the measures of escalation that were announced in a statement it issued on Feb. 25 [2022], and not to turn to a strike in the [PA] governmental health sector at this difficult and sensitive time…





> The ministry said that the [PA] government and the ministry are in a difficult situation in light of the lack of financial resources, *the stoppage of external aid*, and the *theft of tax money by the occupation and it taking a large part of our money as a result of the national position that adheres to the principles*. The ministry also noted that the political pressures that the Israeli occupation authorities are exerting on the leadership have caused a suffocating financial crisis that still exists.”





> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 4, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

Another example of what happens when a bureaucracy becomes just another _politically motivated _bureaucracy_.
_
Such an upside-down world when Islamic terrorist franchises become participants in an ICC ''investigation''. 











						PA is “actively supporting” an ICC investigation against Israel | PMW Analysis
					

Senior PA officials openly disclose that the PA is actively supporting an ICC investigation against Israel.




					palwatch.org
				




PA is “actively supporting” an ICC investigation against Israel​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 16, 2022

*Senior PA officials openly disclose that the PA is actively supporting an ICC investigation against Israel.*​
*US legislation prevents providing aid to the PA if it actively supports the ICC investigation against Israel.*​
*So long as the PA actively supports the ICC investigation, the President may not invoke his waiver and may not allow the reopening of the PLO offices in the US.*​
While the subject of the International Criminal Court (ICC) investigation against Israel has not been a focus of recent attention, no mistake should be made - the Palestinian Authority, which initiated the proceedings, is still doing its utmost to actively support, promote and forward the investigation. The PA’s continued efforts in the ICC activate provisions in US legislation which prohibits the administration from providing the bulk of its aid to the PA and prevent reopening the PLO offices in the US.


----------



## Hollie

Someone at BDS needs to be fired. 











						Arabic press review: Israel acquires part-ownership of Moroccan energy company
					

Meanwhile, journalists in Jordan condemn government crackdown on free speech, and Egypt seeks Saudi ties to counter 'Turkish-Emirati alliance'




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




Israel has acquired part-ownership of a Moroccan energy company, as development initiatives continue between the two countries


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dima Khalidi on Hitting Left Radio​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib: The Senate’s Anti-BDS Bill Is an Unconstitutional Attack on Free Speech​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Pally terrorists have a long history of exporting Islamic terrorism beyond their enclaves.


----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, money is an overwhelming, driving force of Islamic terrorism. Money buys weapons and pays gee-had misfits. 












						Italy's Problem with Palestinian Terrorist Financing
					

Italy faces an increasing risk of illicit financing activities for Palestinian terrorist groups. Italian prosecutors recently launched an investigation into the bank transfers of the country's largest Palestinian organization. Yet some Italian




					www.investigativeproject.org
				




As a group of Italian and European parliamentarians recently highlighted, several Palestinian terrorist organizations, including Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), are increasingly using Italy as a hub for their European operations. Its strategic Mediterranean location and extensive political support make it a magnet for terrorist lobbying and financial activities


----------



## P F Tinmore

Archiving the Struggle: Towards a New Political Imaginary for Palestine​









						The Palestinian Revolution
					

The Palestinian Revolution




					learnpalestine.politics.ox.ac.uk


----------



## Hollie

Did someone just now realize that incitement to killing is a basic element of Pally Islamic terrorist franchises?












						Incitement behind rise in Palestinian terror attacks
					

Hamas and PIJ say they are working to ignite a new intifada against Israel, especially in Jerusalem and the West Bank.




					m.jpost.com
				






What is certain, however, is that the attacks are the result of the ongoing and increasing incitement against Israel by Palestinian officials, factions and media outlets.


The attacks are also the result of calls by Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and other Gaza-based groups for stepping up the “resistance” against Israel.


----------



## Hollie

A bit of a recap describing the patter of behavior perpetrated by Hamas.

It’s too bad the Pallys are willing stooges for this. 










						A Closer Look at Corruption, Hamas, and Violence in the Gaza Strip
					

The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence tow…




					globalanticorruptionblog.com
				




The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence towards Israel and its civilians; Israel responds with military strikes targeting Hamas’s weaponry infrastructure, but since Hamas has intentionally embedded itself in Gaza’s civilian population, Israel’s strikes inevitably claim innocent lives. The question whether Israel’s response was proportional or excessive saturates the news and media. Eventually the two sides reach a tentative ceasefire, the violence subsides, and attention turns elsewhere—until the vicious cycle repeats.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A bit of a recap describing the patter of behavior perpetrated by Hamas.
> 
> It’s too bad the Pallys are willing stooges for this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Closer Look at Corruption, Hamas, and Violence in the Gaza Strip
> 
> 
> The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence tow…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalanticorruptionblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence towards Israel and its civilians; Israel responds with military strikes targeting Hamas’s weaponry infrastructure, but since Hamas has intentionally embedded itself in Gaza’s civilian population, Israel’s strikes inevitably claim innocent lives. The question whether Israel’s response was proportional or excessive saturates the news and media. Eventually the two sides reach a tentative ceasefire, the violence subsides, and attention turns elsewhere—until the vicious cycle repeats.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestine Marathon, which takes place on March 18, 2022, and starts and ends at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, is held under the auspices of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, which is headed by Jibril Rajoub. The council is an official government body subordinate to the PLO. Palestinian Media Watch has documented extensively the PA’s denial of Israel's existence in maps, including the use of such maps to teach children about Palestine in summer camps held by the Supreme Council for Youth and Sports.

PMW has also exposed Rajoub as a passionate proponent of anti-normalization with Israel in sports.

The PLO council has been posting ads for the marathon like the one below that include the logo erasing Israel:









> *Text on image: *“Palestine Marathon
> Document the most beautiful moments with your lens
> Setting out from the Church of the Nativity plaza in Bethlehem on March 18 [2022]”
> [Facebook page of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, March 8, 2022



(full article online)









						Palestine Marathon erases Israel | PMW Analysis
					

True to PA policy of denying Israel's existence, the logo of the “Palestine Marathon” erases all of the State of Israel.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

It’s really remarkable how the Pallys live and breathe their conspiracy theories.











						PA and Hamas Try to 'Coronawash' Their Own Corruption - JINSA
					

We are in the midst of a global health crisis unlike any we have faced in our lifetime. A pandemic has filled the future with uncertainty and the world community is scared, but even dark times have a silver lining.… Read more ›




					jinsa.org
				




Earlier this month, the Palestinian Authority (PA)’s official spokesperson claimed Israel is “striving for the epidemic’s spread in Palestine” and “attempting to approach our laborers and mingle with them in order to transfer the disease to them”. This allegation is absurd on its face, though it tells us quite a bit about how Palestinian leaders intend to respond to the deadly virus. As per usual, they intend to blame it all on the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Palestine Marathon, which takes place on March 18, 2022, and starts and ends at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, is held under the auspices of the PLO Supreme Council for Youth and Sports, which is headed by Jibril Rajoub. The council is an official government body subordinate to the PLO. Palestinian Media Watch has documented extensively the PA’s denial of Israel's existence in maps, including the use of such maps to teach children about Palestine in summer camps held by the Supreme Council for Youth and Sports.
> 
> PMW has also exposed Rajoub as a passionate proponent of anti-normalization with Israel in sports.
> 
> The PLO council has been posting ads for the marathon like the one below that include the logo erasing Israel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Marathon erases Israel | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> True to PA policy of denying Israel's existence, the logo of the “Palestine Marathon” erases all of the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


That Palestinian map is geographically correct.


----------



## Hollie

I get it. It’s a duty for Pallys to worship their sociopath heroes.











						Murder of 10 was “one of the best heroic operations,” says released prisoner | PMW Analysis
					

PA TV host instructs viewers to glorify murderer of 10: “It is the duty of the Palestinian people to send special greetings to prisoner Thaer Hammad”




					palwatch.org
				





Murder of 10 was “one of the best heroic operations,” says released prisoner​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 11, 2022

*PA TV host instructs viewers to glorify murderer of 10: “It is the duty of the Palestinian people to send special greetings to prisoner Thaer Hammad”*​



“One of the best heroic operations” is how a released Palestinian prisoner described the murder of 10 Israelis in 2002.


----------



## Hollie

Why wouldn’t UNRWA keep Pallys in camps? The UNRWA welfare fraud program makes boatloads of money on fake “refugees”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MUSLIM GIRL EXPOSES HER DMs!!​


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  It is not really about recognition -
.................... It is not really about the map -
⁜→.  et al,







P F Tinmore said:


> That Palestinian map is geographically correct.


*(Ω∑)*

We all know that whatever the Arab Palestinian say concerning the political existence of Israel, it is independent of recognition by the Arab Palestinians.  And we all know that by convention, recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

 We all know that any propaganda for armed struggle or conflict shall be prohibited by law.

 We all know that any advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

Arab Palestinians who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm Israelis (the Occupying Power), constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the Israelis force or administration, nor a grave collective danger, International Humanitarian Law shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. 

We all know that any seriously damage the to property of the Israelis or 

We all know that any seriously damage the installations used by them, shall be liable to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law.

We all know that the Israelis may impose the penalties up to and including capital punishment on a Arab Palestinians only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Israeli forces are punishable by International Humanitarian Law. 

I know that, on many occasions in the discussion, Pro-Palestinians and anti-Israeli activists have attempted to suggest that incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence is lawful by the Arab Palestinians.  That is simply NOT TRUE.  We all know that by Covent and Convention, a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah: Europeans Practice Bestiality, Sleep With Animals More Than With Humans; Western Civilization Is Inferior, Asinine, Racist​








						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah: Europeans Practice Bestiality, Sleep With Animals More Than With Humans; Western Civilization Is Inferior, Asinine, Racist
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Yousef Makharzah said in a March 6, 2022 speech that aired on the Hizb-ut-Tahrir-affiliated ...




					www.memri.org
				






I read the words, “Pally Islamic cleric”, and immediately thought, “Oh no. This is going to be bad”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  It is not really about recognition -
> .................... It is not really about the map -
> ⁜→.  et al,
> 
> View attachment 617259
> 
> *(Ω∑)*
> 
> We all know that whatever the Arab Palestinian say concerning the political existence of Israel, it is independent of recognition by the Arab Palestinians.  And we all know that by convention, recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.
> 
> We all know that any propaganda for armed struggle or conflict shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> We all know that any advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> Arab Palestinians who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm Israelis (the Occupying Power), constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the Israelis force or administration, nor a grave collective danger, International Humanitarian Law shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.
> 
> We all know that any seriously damage the to property of the Israelis or
> 
> We all know that any seriously damage the installations used by them, shall be liable to prosecution under International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> We all know that the Israelis may impose the penalties up to and including capital punishment on a Arab Palestinians only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Israeli forces are punishable by International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> I know that, on many occasions in the discussion, Pro-Palestinians and anti-Israeli activists have attempted to suggest that incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence is lawful by the Arab Palestinians.  That is simply NOT TRUE.  We all know that by Covent and Convention, a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Funny, with all of Israel's bitching and whining, no Palestinian has ever been taken to the Hague.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> And we all know that by convention, recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.


Israel and the US have recognized Palestine


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  International Court System
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> Funny, with all of Israel's bitching and whining, no Palestinian has ever been taken to the Hague.


*(COMMENT)*

To the best of my knowledge, the Israelis have seldom (if ever) used the international court system.  Now, others have used the International Court System to penalize Israel.  I think the last time was the Dispute Resolution Settlement over the confrontation of the Freedom Flotilla trying to break through the Gaza Strip Blockade.

But I've never heard of Israel going to the International System on a complaint/dispute.  I think the Israelis tend to use their domestic legal system.  I doubt as to whether I will ever see the Israelis attempt to use the International System.  That system has become very politicalized.  It's not about right 'vs' wrong or fair hearing processes when it comes to anything involving the Israelis.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: International Court System
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a trick question.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel and the US have recognized Palestine


*(COMMENT)*

Of course the Oslo Accords recognized the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).  Of course the vast majority of the world has recognized the ground truth relative to the State of Palestine as it actually exists.  And of course there is the recognition of the Palestinian Authority.  The question comes to be:  Just What does the Sovereignty of the State of Palestine consist?

But as to the question of recognition, hell yes.  There is something out there.  The Donor Nations and the Diplomatic agency of well over 130 countries have recognized some form of "Palestine."  BUT, many of the nations actually (to be more specific) recognize the Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine, formally and unanimously  adopted  on  15 November  1988  by  the  Palestine  National  Council; Yassar Arafat, as Chairman of the PLO became the first  "President of Palestine."





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel and the US have recognized Palestine


I thought Pal’istan was recognized as a “country” when it was invented in 1924 by the Treaty of Lausanne. It was later re-invented, again, in the late 1960’s by Yassir Arafat.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> But I've never heard of Israel going to the International System on a complaint/dispute. I think the Israelis tend to use their domestic legal system.


Indeed, Israel prefers its own kangaroo court system that has an almost 100% conviction rate. Usually the defendant is coerced  into a plea deal where they confess to "something." Then, of course. the next time they get busted they are "repeat offenders."    

The US and Israel share a lot in their legal systems.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab TV channels compete to offer TV series that run during the month of Ramadan, often playing every night - 30 episodes.

Islamic Jihad's media arm has created its own Ramadan series, extolling last September's prison break from Gilboa prison through a tunnel.

Four of them were captured within days when Israeli Arabs called police. They tried to get help from other Israeli Arabs and were refused. 

Two of them were caught after four days. Two more were caught on the fifth day. And the last two were caught about a week later.

All of them remain in prison, with little chance of being released.

What a victory!

Yet not only are they heroes to Islamic Jihad (five of them belonged to that terror group,) but they are somehow stretching those facts over 30 episodes!

Dramatic music can only go so far. 










						Gaza terrorists produce 30 episode Ramadan series about the short-lived escape from Gilboa prison
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Four residents of East Jerusalem were indicted Friday over alleged ties to Hamas, with police prosecutors charging some to have planned attacks in the coming month after conducting weapons training and meetings with terror group officials in Turkey.

Following a lengthy joint investigation with the Shin Bet security agency, police said three of the suspects — a family from Sur Baher — were detained upon their entry to Israel last month.

A fourth suspect — a resident of Beit Hanina — was also arrested, with 500,000 NIS (approximately $155,000) in cash, vehicles, and other assets seized, as well as the freezing of bank accounts belonging to a charitable organization.


(full article online)









						4 East Jerusalem residents charged with Hamas ties, planning attacks during Ramadan
					

Prosecutors accuse Sur Baher man of contact with terror group officials, conducting weapons training in Turkey; orphan charity allegedly funneled money for terror purposes




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> But as to the question of recognition, hell yes.


I have posted so much about this but you just blow it off and revert back to Israeli bullshit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I think the last time was the Dispute Resolution Settlement over the confrontation of the Freedom Flotilla trying to break through the Gaza Strip Blockade.


That was crazy. I believe that the court said that since "only" 10 people were killed it did not raise to the level of a crime.

Also, one of those killed was a US citizen. Yet there was not a peep out of any of Israel's lackeys in our government.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Accusation Does NOT pass the SMELL TEST
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*Cash-Strapped PA Increases ‘Salary’ of Terrorist Who Killed Israeli Kids*​Israeli watchdog reports massive increase in payments to all jailed terrorists, despite Palestinian economic crisis
By Israel Today Staff | July 11, 2019 | Topics: palestinians

*Note: * The average wage of West Bank Palestinians has estimated $554 to $615.


P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Israel prefers its own kangaroo court system that has an almost 100% conviction rate. Usually the defendant is coerced  into a plea deal where they confess to "something." Then, of course. the next time they get busted they are "repeat offenders."
> 
> The US and Israel share a lot in their legal systems.


*(COMMENT)*

According to the report, a month's stipend for a jailed terrorist can be up to $3,470 a month. (*JP DEC 2020*)
United with Israel​The Global Movement for Israel ™​(19 JUN 2017)​Since its establishment, the Palestinian Authority (PA) has been paying stipends to Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli jails, both past and present, as well as to the wounded and the families of individuals “martyred,” or killed, while carrying out attacks against Israelis.​
*(WHAT IS THE CONNECTION)*

The Arab Palestinians WANT TO confess.  There is no need for a Kangaroo Court.  Such an allegation is without merit.  By going to prison, the Palestinian Authority pays the terrorist 3 times the average wage to go to prison for an attack.  That is a major source of income and a valid career opportunity in the eyes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Oxford Union is a platform to debate different ideas. You would expect a Palestinian Arab to stand up and criticize Israel; to demonize the Jewish state. But Mudar Zahran had other plans. At this Oxford debate, he did something different. He told the world the truth. Mudar criticized the Palestinian Arab leaders and Jordan for the way they treat their own people. He condemned the lies they spread. And it was absolutely amazing to listen to! Hopefully, more people like Zahran will be able to publicly stand up and say what he said. He made peace feel possible. He made it feel closer than ever before.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Oxford Union is a platform to debate different ideas. You would expect a Palestinian Arab to stand up and criticize Israel; to demonize the Jewish state. But Mudar Zahran had other plans. At this Oxford debate, he did something different. He told the world the truth. Mudar criticized the Palestinian Arab leaders and Jordan for the way they treat their own people. He condemned the lies they spread. And it was absolutely amazing to listen to! Hopefully, more people like Zahran will be able to publicly stand up and say what he said. He made peace feel possible. He made it feel closer than ever before.


The question should not be “Has the Arab World Failed the Palestinian People?” It should be "How did the Arab world get the job of cleaning up after Israel?"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Commentary's Jonathan Marks has a review of "The Trials of Rasmea Odeh," where he summarizes a book by Steven Lubet that examines the evidence that Odeh was guilty of both lying on her immigration form to the US as well as of murder of two Israeli Jews in 1968. 

Not surprisingly to those of us who have followed the cases, Lubet shows that she is guilty on all counts.

Here is a summary of the summary:




> First, Odeh was guilty of the crime to which she pleaded guilty: “procuring citizenship contrary to law.” She falsely denied, in writing and in person, being arrested, convicted, and jailed in Israel. That lie, without which she would not have obtained citizenship, was illegal. After her grudging plea was accepted, Odeh rushed to the courthouse steps to take it back in the presence of her fans. But Lubet shows that Odeh pleaded out for a good reason, namely, the weakness of her defense.
> 
> At trial, Odeh claimed that she misread her naturalization application, which asked such unambiguous questions as “Have you EVER been convicted of any crime or offense.” That boldfaced, capitalized “ever,” she said, referred only to convictions in the United States, she had thought. The official who conducted her naturalization interview testified to having clarified, as a routine practice, that the word “ever” included “anywhere in the world.” Odeh asserted that the official never did so, which is why she reaffirmed, under oath and line by line, the lies in her application.



Lubet then demolishes the claims that Odeh didn't know enough English in her 1994 visa application where she wrote the same lie (she took English in school and college materials were in English) and that her supposed PTSD didn't allow her to admit to being arrested (she clearly talks about her arrest all the time.)

Lubet then proves that the accusation that the judges were biased are completely unfounded; and he impressively shows how they bent over backwards to allow her defense.

Then:


> Rasmea Odeh was guilty of the crimes she lied about, including her participation in the operation that killed Edward Joffe and Leon Kanner. Lubet counts the ways in which this should be ob-vious. Both of the women who worked with Odeh and planted the bombs have implicated her in the operation, not under duress but during interviews with friendly interlocutors. In one such interview, Odeh herself sits, smiling and denying nothing, as her accomplice thanks her for “dragging [her] into military work.” After Odeh went to prison, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) named a hijacking unit after her and made her release a high priority. Odeh, who portrayed herself to “European and American audiences” as an innocent victim caught up in an Israeli dragnet, told a sympathetic interviewer that she was a member of PFLP’s central committee, and she gave several “Arabic-language television interviews recounting her involvement in ‘military work,’” a euphemism for the PFLP’s attacks on civilians. And why not? Before she came to the United States, Odeh was celebrated in the Arab world.


Lubet finds it credible that Odeh was tortured; Israeli laws against that weren't solidified for years afterwards. But if she admitted anything under torture, it was the truth. 

The people who demanded "justice for Rasmea" got exactly what they asked for.


(full article online)









						Yes, of course Rasmea Odeh is guilty - of everything
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Palestinian Islamic scholar Yousef Makharzah said in an October 5, 2021 Quran lesson that aired on Al-Waqiyah TV (Lebanon) that the Quran says that men are "preferable" to women. He explained that although it is possible for an individual woman to be better than an individual man, some of the "most obvious features" that demonstrate men's superiority are their superior strength, patience, toughness, bravery, and willingness and ability to travel and fight. In contrast, he said, women are better at caring for children.

In a subsequent lesson, which aired on October 12, 2021, Sheikh Makharzah said that if a man's wife disobeys him, he should immediately address the issue rather than wait until she "destroys" his honor. He said that the man should address the issue even if this leads to beating his wife, and that he should divorce her if he fails to "straighten her out." For more about Sheikh Makharzah, see MEMRI TV Clips __nos. 7849__, __no. 8500__, __no. 8557__, __no. 8877__, __no. 9207__, and __no. 9356__._

*To view the clip of Yousef Mekharzah on MEMRI TV, click **here** or below.*

(full article online)









						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah: Don't Let Your Disobedient Wife Destroy Your Honor – Beat Her If You Must; Men Are Inherently Superior To Women
					






					www.memri.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

LINDA SARSOUR SPEECH AT "NOT BACKING DOWN" PALESTINIAN RIGHTS PANEL AT UMASS​


----------



## Hollie

I’m afraid we’re approaching that time of year again, the holy month of islamic terrorism. 





			https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/18/countdown-to-ramadan-attacks/
		


"The four terrorist attacks that took place in and around Jerusalem this week – two stabbing incidents in Hizmeh and two more stabbing incidents at Temple Mount gates – could be a preview of another bloody month like the Ramadan months we've seen here in the past decades," senior security officials warned.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Working together, IRS, HSI, and FBI agents tracked and seized all 150 cryptocurrency accounts that laundered funds to and from the al-Qassam Brigades’ (Hamas) accounts,” the statement said. 

However, despite DOJ’s actions, Hamas has reorganized and resumed its online campaign to raise funds via cryptocurrency. Since the DOJ’s operation, Hamas has posted four notices to its online followers directing them to a website ending in “.ps” that was established after the DOJ seized the previous domain in 2020. 

FDD’s Long War Journal has been tracking the use of cryptocurrency by several Palestinian militant organizations since 2020.

In Dec. 2021, Liwa al-Tawhid, a suborganization of al-Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades, posted a message instructing its online followers to “contribute to equipping a mujahid in occupied Palestine” by donating bitcoin to an address established by the organization. [See FDD’s Long War Journal: Gaza Militant Group Raises Funds via Cryptocurrency for Jihad Against Israel.]

Although there has not been further action by the DOJ since the 2020 operation, the Israeli government has taken measures to curb Hamas’ illicit online financial network. 

In July 2021, Israel’s Defense Minister Benny Gantz ordered the seizure of a “web of electronic wallets” used by Hamas to fund its operations. Later in Feb. 2022, the Israeli government targeted Hamas again when it orderedthe seizure of “30 cryptocurrency wallets from 12 accounts, owned by an exchange company based in the Gaza Strip.” 

Given the evidence of Hamas’ recent activities, it appears the organization is a step ahead of efforts by the DOJ, Israel and social media companies to block access or dismantle its online financial network and those affiliated with it.

(full article online)





__





						Hamas’ Illicit Bitcoin Network Continues to Operate Despite DOJ Seizure | FDD's Long War Journal
					

Despite the DOJ and Israeli government efforts to curb Hamas' cryptocurrency network, the organization continues to solicit donations online from its supporters.



					www.longwarjournal.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Ropey

More genetic Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" doing what they do best.

Trying to kill others.









						2 Israeli police officers wounded in Jerusalem terrorist attack
					

Terrorist stabs police officer near the Old City of Jerusalem. Security forces nab terrorist.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




The genetic Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" ... are led by Hamas... who greatly approves of such murdering.









						Hamas welcomes Jerusalem stabbing attack
					

Hamas spokesman says Sunday's stabbing attack in Jerusalem was an "heroic act".




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




These are "Palestinians."


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

PA Official Calls Israel Nazis in front of EU Council Rep
					

Does it look like they want peace?




					www.israelunwired.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Indonesian delegation said that the IPU delegates should work towards a fully independent Palestinian state. Last yearit was unsuccessful in gaining support for that resolution. 

The Kuwaiti representative demanded that Israel be expelled from the IPU altogether at a sidelines meeting of Arab states at the conference, saying that it was hypocritical for the IPU to expel Russia and not Israel. This speech was greeted with cheers from various anti-Israel groups. The Algerian delegate made a similar point.

Perhaps the most interesting part of the conference is the absence of a Palestinian delegation altogether. Usually the PA is eager to attend any international gathering to appear like a real functioning state. They attended last November's meeting in Madrid. In 2018, their delegation successfully passed an anti-Israel resolution. 

I could not find any mention or explanation of the absence in Palestinian media. This may mean that there was some embarrassing infighting going on concerning the conference that the Palestinian media wants to keep quiet.

(full article online)









						Israeli delegation in Indonesia for Inter-Parliamentary Union meeting; Palestinians absent
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

From The Jerusalem Post:




> Four people were killed in a suspected terrorist stabbing attack at a shopping center and gas station in Beersheba, with a number of others injured in the attack, according to emergency services.
> 
> According to police, the terrorist arrived at a gas station and stabbed a woman before getting in a car and running over a man riding on a bicycle. He then exited the car and stabbed a man and a woman before being shot and killed by a civilian passerby.




Here we see Gazans handing out candy in celebration of the murder of Jews.





Hamas and Islamic Jihad praised the attack. 




> The terrorist, Muhammad Alab Ahmed abu Alkiyan, is a Bedouin Israeli from the town of Hura who has served time in Israeli prison in the past.
> 
> Alkiyan was arrested in 2015, along with a number of other suspects, for supporting and promoting ISIS to students at a school he taught at.



Palestinian terror groups pretend that they hate ISIS. They pretend (to the West) that they don't support attacking civilians. 

But whenever there is an attack on innocent Jews, they celebrate, and they are quite allied with ISIS. 

(full article online)









						Palestinians celebrate Beersheva murder of 4 Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian leadership is again seemingly inciting violence against Israelis just as it did prior to last May’s conflict. On Sunday, two Israeli police officers were stabbed in an attack that was hailed as “heroic” by Hamas.

The previous day, another Palestinian terrorist attacked an Israeli while he was jogging in central Jerusalem. That came after another knife attack carried out by a Hamas member which injured Israeli security forces at the entrance of the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest site. Earlier this month, two Israeli policemen were injured in a similar incident.

The week before, two Israelis were wounded in separate stabbings in Hizma, an Arab town bordering Israel’s capital.

Data indicate that there have been major surges in Palestinian terrorist attacks during Ramadan, which this year begins on April 2. A Hamas spokesman said that “the Palestinian people are united behind the gun,” and called on Jerusalem Arabs to “make all friction points with the enemy [Israel] clash points.”

It appears the Palestinians are gearing up for an escalation. Yet the media is silent.









						Palestinians Begin Campaign of Violence Against Israel Ahead of Muslim Holy Month (VIDEO) | Honest Reporting
					

The Palestinian leadership is again seemingly inciting violence against Israelis just as it did prior to last May's conflict.




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. It seems working for the glory of the gee-had (and to finance the wealth of the PA, Hamas 'leadership'), is not such a great career move.












						Palestinians prefer to work in Israel rather than PA due to higher salaries, better conditions, and benefits | PMW Analysis
					

Many Palestinian workers prefer to work in Israel rather than in the PA. Hoping to improve their income and living standards, Palestinians leave their local job market and come to Israel, mostly to work in the construction sector.




					palwatch.org
				




https://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch?sub_confirmation=1
https://www.twitter.com/palwatch
https://www.facebook.com/PalestinianMediaWatch
Palestinians prefer to work in Israel rather than PA due to higher salaries, better conditions, and benefits​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 22, 2022
Many Palestinian workers prefer to work in Israel rather than in the PA. Hoping to improve their income and living standards, Palestinians leave their local job market and come to Israel, mostly to work in the construction sector.

They make this decision due to the higher salaries in Israel, the more orderly conditions, and the benefits. Moreover, receiving salaries in the PA after the job has been done also proves difficult at times, as one Palestinian construction worker explained:


> “Musa Suleiman, 49, from the town of Dir Balut west of Salfit has worked in the construction sector in the Palestinian [job] market. Three years ago, he decided to leave to work in the Israeli market.
> Suleiman said: ‘I learned the trade from my father who was a builder, and slowly I mastered construction and became skilled… *But the low salary here among us and the high [salary] in Israel caused me to leave to work there, with the hope that I will be able to improve my income… The salary here is low, and collecting it is liable to last months or years after the work has been completed, following foot-dragging and splitting into payments…* Many workers work in the market of the occupation state (Israel) [parentheses in source]. Also* the work hours are limited, the rights are clear, and there are payments to which we are eligible*.’”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 16, 2022]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gee, whiz. It seems working for the glory of the gee-had (and to finance the wealth of the PA, Hamas 'leadership'), is not such a great career move.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians prefer to work in Israel rather than PA due to higher salaries, better conditions, and benefits | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Many Palestinian workers prefer to work in Israel rather than in the PA. Hoping to improve their income and living standards, Palestinians leave their local job market and come to Israel, mostly to work in the construction sector.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch?sub_confirmation=1
> https://www.twitter.com/palwatch
> Palestinian Media Watch
> Palestinians prefer to work in Israel rather than PA due to higher salaries, better conditions, and benefits​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 22, 2022
> Many Palestinian workers prefer to work in Israel rather than in the PA. Hoping to improve their income and living standards, Palestinians leave their local job market and come to Israel, mostly to work in the construction sector.
> 
> They make this decision due to the higher salaries in Israel, the more orderly conditions, and the benefits. Moreover, receiving salaries in the PA after the job has been done also proves difficult at times, as one Palestinian construction worker explained:


The five "W's" in journalism. Who, what, when, where, and why.

There is no why in this article.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The five "W's" in journalism. Who, what, when, where, and why.
> 
> There is no why in this article.


You need to pay attention.


----------



## Hollie

With the islamc terrorists looking to ramp up the gee-had, they will need another UNRWA begging and pleading fund drive to pay the families of the soon to be dead Pally islamic terrorists 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




PA invited yesterday’s terror and will reward it​Itamar Marcus  | Mar 23, 2022

*“President [Abbas called] in all his speeches to initiate popular resistance”*​
*Fatah: “We must escalate the popular resistance”*​
*PA: Murderer is a Shahid - Islamic Martyr to be rewarded by Allah*​
*Family of Israeli Arab terrorist to receive greater reward than Palestinian families of terrorists*​
Yesterday's terror attack in which an Israeli Arab murdered 4 Israelis in Be’er Sheva in southern Israel using a car to murder one and a knife to murder three more, is exactly the kind of terror that the Palestinian Authority has been actively calling for.


----------



## Hollie

It means you have to acknowledge that the Arabs-Moslems you're living next to are politico-religious retrogrades who meet the definition of sociopaths. 












						Four Israelis killed in stabbing attack in Beersheba, terrorist shot
					

Attack was third stabbing this week | Bedouin-Israel attacker had been arrested in the past for supporting ISIS.




					www.google.com
				





Jerusalem Post Israel News
Four Israelis killed in stabbing attack in Beersheba, terrorist shot dead
By TZVI JOFFRE Published: MARCH 22, 2022 16:28
Updated: MARCH 23, 2022 08:56


Attack was third stabbing this week | Bedouin-Israel attacker had been arrested in the past for supporting ISIS.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday's terror attack in which an Israeli Arab murdered 4 Israelis in Be’er Sheva in southern Israel using a car to murder one and a knife to murder three more, is exactly the kind of terror that the Palestinian Authority has been actively calling for.






The Palestinian Authority calls this kind of murder "peaceful popular uprising/resistance." It uses these euphemisms to hide from the international community and especially donor countries that it is calling for terror and murder.

The PA, Fatah, and PLO leaders lately have increased the calls for “popular” terror. Last month, the PLO held a major event and the “main topic” of the entire event was increasing murderous “popular resistance”:

(full article online)









						PA invited yesterday’s terror and will reward it | PMW Analysis
					

“President [Abbas called] in all his speeches to initiate popular resistance”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

(Yes, why in the world was he released from prison? )


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists have this all wrong. The sociopaths / misfits they breed for the purpose of dying as children in the service of the pal Death Cult are quickly forgotten. They become a largely forgotten name on a list as the pal leadership live extravagant lifestyles in Qatar. 













						Terrorist who led murder of 37 is PA's "legend that never dies" | PMW Analysis
					

Mughrabi led “bravest military operation in [Palestinian] history”




					palwatch.org
				




Terrorist who led murder of 37 is PA's "legend that never dies"​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 21, 2022

*Murderer Dalal Mughrabi who led killing of 37 Israelis, including 12 kids, remains a superhero for PA and Fatah*​
*Mughrabi led “bravest military operation in [Palestinian] history”*​



Do you know who Dalal Mughrabi was?
The PA and Fatah are making sure that every Palestinian does!


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Knowledge Entails Responsibility": Introducing Jehad Abusalim, 2022 FMEP Fellow​


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism lives and breathes on financing.













						Italy's Problem with Palestinian Terrorist Financing
					

Italy faces an increasing risk of illicit financing activities for Palestinian terrorist groups. Italian prosecutors recently launched an investigation into the bank transfers of the country's largest Palestinian organization. Yet some Italian




					www.investigativeproject.org
				




Italy's Problem with Palestinian Terrorist Financing​*by Maria Zuppello
Special to IPT News
March 15, 2022*



Italy faces an increasing risk of illicit financing activities for Palestinian terrorist groups. Italian prosecutors recently launched an investigation into the bank transfers of the country's largest Palestinian organization. Yet some Italian politicians appear to be blind to the threat, even funding Italian non-governmental organizations that engage with Palestinian terrorist organanizations.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist ''neutralized'', ie: non-mirror fogging.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The "military wing" of Fatah, the political group led by "mmoderate" PA president Mahmoud Abbas, has praised the Beersheva terror attack Tuesday that killed four Jews - including two women and a rabbi.

From their press release:

 Great truth of God 
A military statement issued by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - Palestine 

About the heroic Beersheba operation, which led to the killing of 4 settlers
 The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades congratulate the heroic stabbing and ramming operation carried out by one of the liberated Palestinian prisoners in the occupied city of Beersheba, which led to the killing of four settlers and the injury of others. 
The battalions consider that this heroic operation comes in the context of the natural response to the escalation of terrorism of the Zionist enemy and its continuous settlers in all Palestinian cities and villages, and as the best response to the incursions of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the continuous aggression against our people in all its places of residence. 
This operation came to confirm our people's rejection of the policies of the criminal enemy in the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem, and to reaffirm our people's support for the option of armed struggle, and to also confirm that our people, who defeat their enemy with the simplest tools, will not accept oppression or surrender. 
We also call on the masses of our struggling Palestinian people in the West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza and the occupied interior to start a comprehensive revolution in the face of the plans of the criminal Zionist enemy, to wrest victory, and for the blessed month of Ramadan to be a fuse for volcanoes of anger that erupts in the face of the usurpers of our land and our sanctities. 
It is a revolution until victory 
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - Palestine Martyr Brigades of Commander Nidal Al-Amoudi

There is no wiggle room here. 

The "moderate" Fatah political party's armed wing supports murdering Jews.
It regards all Jews in Israel - and only Jews - as "settlers."
It says that Jews peacefully visiting the Temple Mount is justification for murder.
It calls for more murders of Jews during the "holy month" of Ramadan.










						Fatah terrorists join in praising Beersheva attack, call for Ramadan attacks on Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

The EU then signed off on a similar plan.

This has caused great anger among Palestinians.

Last year, students in an UNRWA school in Lebanon were surprised and shocked to see that a map published in a geography exam printed the verboten word "Israel."





The reaction was furious. A columnist at Al Modon called thisanother Nakba.  Al Akhbar called this "falsifying history." 

Another columnist called the US-UNRWA agreement "blackmail in its worst form" a term used by Hamas which also called it a "liquidation plan."

This month, the Palestinian Land Society started a campaign against the agreement claiming that the US is saying to Palestinians, "Deny you are a Palestinian or perish."





Palestinian historian Salman Abu Sitta wrote a letter to UNRWA demanding that Palestinians revert to creating their own curricula, claiming that this agreement that requires UNRWA to adhere to its own published standards is a violation of numerous international laws. He threatened to escalate the issue to the UN Human Rights Council. He includes over-the-top language like saying that the agreement is a threat that really says _"Deny you are Palestinian or else you will starve or your children will roam the streets without education."_

Clearly, teaching children facts without bias is a major threat to Palestinian society, whose very existence is built on lies. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian anger at US and EU agreement with UNRWA to keep school materials neutral
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> A military statement issued by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - Palestine
> 
> About the heroic Beersheba operation, which led to the killing of 4 settlers
> The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades congratulate the heroic stabbing and ramming operation carried out by one of the liberated Palestinian prisoners in the occupied city of Beersheba, which led to the killing of four settlers and the injury of others.
> The battalions consider that this heroic operation comes in the context of the natural response to the escalation of terrorism of the Zionist enemy and its continuous settlers in all Palestinian cities and villages, and as the best response to the incursions of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the continuous aggression against our people in all its places of residence.
> This operation came to confirm our people's rejection of the policies of the criminal enemy in the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem, and to reaffirm our people's support for the option of armed struggle, and to also confirm that our people, who defeat their enemy with the simplest tools, will not accept oppression or surrender.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: If you received a foreign passport, would you leave Palestine?​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The pally way. Lies and dishonor.













						PA hypocrisy: Honor terror in Arabic and secretly condemn it in English | PMW Analysis
					

PA to Palestinians: The murderer was a “Martyr”PA Minister to Israeli Minister:  "I am deeply shocked by this terror attack."




					palwatch.org
				





PA hypocrisy: Honor terror in Arabic and secretly condemn it in English​Itamar Marcus  | Mar 24, 2022

*PA to Palestinians: The murderer was a “Martyr” [March 23, 2022] *​
*PA Minister to Israeli Minister:  "I am deeply shocked by this terror attack." [March 22, 2022] *​
Yesterday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed that the Palestinian Authority has been the driving force behind the recent wave of eight stabbing attacks since the start of March in Israel. The Palestinian terror climaxed in the horrific attack on Tuesday in which four Israelis were murdered.
As reported yesterday, the PA and Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah have been calling continuously for “popular resistance,” the PA term for knife and car ramming terror. To show their support for terror, not only didn’t the PA condemn any of the previous attacks – it publicized unqualified support for the terrorists, and condemned Israel for killing them to stop the attacks. Moreover, official PA TV and the official daily newspaper honored the terrorist murderer yesterday as a _“Shahid”_ - Islamic Martyr.
Yet, when Palestinian Minister of Civil Affairs Hussein al-Sheikh met with Israeli Minister of Public Security Bar-Lev an hour after Tuesday’s terror attack, he told him he “was shocked” by the attack:


> "This meeting opens with Hussein Al-Sheikh's saying at the very beginning to Minister Bar-Lev: "I am deeply shocked by this terror attack."
> [Israeli TV KAN News, March 23, 20022]


----------



## Sixties Fan

ow, 41 Palestinian legislators have signed a crazy letter opposing CEDAW, complaining how the legislation was being sneaked by them. 

Their letter says the purpose of CEDAW is "to spread abnormal practices in our reality, and turn them into familiar natural phenomena and practices, such as sexual relations outside marriage, absolute freedoms, moral chaos, and homosexuality of all kinds. destroying the foundations on which the family is built."

They also expressed their “astonishment and disapproval” that such an important law was drafted “in secret, discussing and circulating it in closed rooms with a limited group that does not represent society, and avoiding consulting specialists from Sharia scholars, clerics, judges, jurists and opinion-holders." The noted that under Palestinian law, the Legislative Council is the only body authorized to pass laws and legislation.

It seems that the cabinet doesn't even have the power to enact laws like this, and this is just a sham to push off the international community for another couple of years until they notice that the laws are not being enforced.

This sort of stuff happens all the time in the PA. They pretend to be a functioning, responsible government but the PA side is thoroughly corrupt and Abbas does whatever he wants, while the Hamas side is thoroughly Islamist. The entire CEDAW episode has been playing out for years and anyone can see that there was never any desire to actually fight for women's rights. 

This 2018 report details the huge gaps between Palestinian laws and equality for women, showing how few women are employed or in important political positions, and how many are beaten every year. 

(full article online)









						Palestinian MPs oppose legislation to give equal rights to women - even though it is a sham to begin with
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ow, 41 Palestinian legislators have signed a crazy letter opposing CEDAW, complaining how the legislation was being sneaked by them.
> 
> Their letter says the purpose of CEDAW is "to spread abnormal practices in our reality, and turn them into familiar natural phenomena and practices, such as sexual relations outside marriage, absolute freedoms, moral chaos, and homosexuality of all kinds. destroying the foundations on which the family is built."
> 
> They also expressed their “astonishment and disapproval” that such an important law was drafted “in secret, discussing and circulating it in closed rooms with a limited group that does not represent society, and avoiding consulting specialists from Sharia scholars, clerics, judges, jurists and opinion-holders." The noted that under Palestinian law, the Legislative Council is the only body authorized to pass laws and legislation.
> 
> It seems that the cabinet doesn't even have the power to enact laws like this, and this is just a sham to push off the international community for another couple of years until they notice that the laws are not being enforced.
> 
> This sort of stuff happens all the time in the PA. They pretend to be a functioning, responsible government but the PA side is thoroughly corrupt and Abbas does whatever he wants, while the Hamas side is thoroughly Islamist. The entire CEDAW episode has been playing out for years and anyone can see that there was never any desire to actually fight for women's rights.
> 
> This 2018 report details the huge gaps between Palestinian laws and equality for women, showing how few women are employed or in important political positions, and how many are beaten every year.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MPs oppose legislation to give equal rights to women - even though it is a sham to begin with
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com





Sixties Fan said:


> The noted that under Palestinian law, the Legislative Council is the only body authorized to pass laws and legislation.


It has been like this since the US coup in 2007.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


That is why we need the 2nd amendment in the US.


----------



## Hollie

It won't be much longer before the next parade of youngsters pile in to their gee-had / virgin acquisition training at the Hamas summer camp. 

Time to use up those disposable children the Pals have laying around by sending them for gee-had attacks in Israel 










						Palestinian frustration grows because of Israel, US and Russia
					

Palestinian Affairs: The PA is talking about a “peaceful popular resistance,” while Hamas and allies in the Gaza Strip want to see more stabbing, shooting and car-ramming attacks in the West Bank.




					www.google.com
				









PA PRESIDENT Mahmoud Abbas holds a placard showing maps of (from left) historical Palestine, the 1937 Peel Commission partition plan, the 1947 United Nations partition plan on Palestine, the 1948-1967 borders between the Palestinian territories and Israel, and a map of US president Donald Trump’s p
(photo credit: Alaa Badarneh/pool/AFP via Getty Images)
Palestinian Affairs: The PA is talking about a “peaceful popular resistance,” while Hamas and allies in the Gaza Strip want to see more stabbing, shooting and car-ramming attacks in the West Bank​


----------



## Hollie

I suppose Islamic terrorists see the weak and impotent Biden administration as an opportunity for a get out of jail free card but let's not lose our sense of common sense. 











						Webinar Renews Calls to Pardon "Holy Land Five," Whitewashes Palestinian Terror
					

The Biden administration should pardon five former officials from a now-defunct, Texas-based charity convicted of illegally routing millions of dollars to Hamas, speakers said during a March 11 webinar. They justified the call by drawing parallels with




					www.investigativeproject.org
				









The Biden administration should pardon five former officials from a now-defunct, Texas-based charity convicted of illegally routing millions of dollars to Hamas, speakers said during a March 11 webinar.

They justified the call by drawing parallels with Israel's October terror designation of six Palestinian "civil society" NGOs.

There is a "general pattern of the U.S. and Israel criminalizing basic forms of solidarity with other people as 'terrorism,'" claimed Amith Gupta, staff attorney with the Coalition for Civil Freedoms (CCF).


----------



## Hollie

When Islamic terrorists announce every day their intention to kill Israelis, you want to make the gee-had, you know, punching the gee-hadi ticket. 











						Guns to be returned to citizens who shot at Beersheba terrorist
					

Police complete ballistic test on weapons used to subdue stabber in deadly attack; two injured victims in stable condition, hospital says




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Guns to be returned to citizens who shot at Beersheba terrorist​



A suspected assailant being shot in Beersheba on March 22, 2022. (Screenshot: Twitter)
The two men who shot at a terrorist who murdered four people in Beersheba Tuesday will have their guns returned to them Wednesday morning, police said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: What should happen to someone who leaves Islam?​


----------



## Hollie

The insular society of Islamic terrorist misfits has quite the list of sociopathic heroes. 











						PLO posts image honouring Palestinian terrorist prisoners, including murderers Karim and Maher Younes | PMW Translations
					

Image and text posted on the Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Posted text: “The [PLO] Commission of Prisoners’ [Affairs]: The list of veteran prisoners has reached 148 Palestinian prisoners March 17, 2022 This morning, Friday [March 18, 2022], the Commission of Prisoners...”




					palwatch.org
				




PLO posts image honouring Palestinian terrorist prisoners, including murderers Karim and Maher Younes​PLO Commission of Prisoners and Released Prisoners’ Affairs, Facebook  | Mar 18, 2022
Image and text posted on the Facebook page of the PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs


----------



## Hollie

The ISIS knuckle dragger who is a pally hero. 











						Terrorist was called a ‘ticking bomb’ in the past, was sentenced to 4 years
					

Mohammad Ghaleb Abu al-Qi’an, who killed 4 in Beersheba terror spree on Tuesday, was jailed over Islamic State ties after a judge said he expressed 'sincere remorse'




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> There is a "general pattern of the U.S. and Israel criminalizing basic forms of solidarity with other people as 'terrorism,'" claimed Amith Gupta, staff attorney with the Coalition for Civil Freedoms (CCF).



It's awful!
Just because they support terrorists and terrorism, the US is mean to them. 
Very sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I suppose Islamic terrorists see the weak and impotent Biden administration as an opportunity for a get out of jail free card but let's not lose our sense of common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Webinar Renews Calls to Pardon "Holy Land Five," Whitewashes Palestinian Terror
> 
> 
> The Biden administration should pardon five former officials from a now-defunct, Texas-based charity convicted of illegally routing millions of dollars to Hamas, speakers said during a March 11 webinar. They justified the call by drawing parallels with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.investigativeproject.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Biden administration should pardon five former officials from a now-defunct, Texas-based charity convicted of illegally routing millions of dollars to Hamas, speakers said during a March 11 webinar.
> 
> They justified the call by drawing parallels with Israel's October terror designation of six Palestinian "civil society" NGOs.
> 
> There is a "general pattern of the U.S. and Israel criminalizing basic forms of solidarity with other people as 'terrorism,'" claimed Amith Gupta, staff attorney with the Coalition for Civil Freedoms (CCF).


Thanks for the lead.

Before the Palestine 6, There Were the Holy Land 5​


----------



## Hollie

A victim of his own gee-had. 










						Israeli Arab who shot at Israeli police and was thus killed in self-defence is labelled as a "Palestinian" victim | PMW Translations
					

In article distorting reality and portraying Arab terrorist as the innocent victim of Israeli brutality, PA news agency refuses to use the word 'Israel,' instead renaming it "the 1948-occupied territories"




					palwatch.org
				




*Posted text in English: *“BREAKING: A second #Palestinian (i.e., Israeli Arab) killed was by Israeli troops during the last few hours. Sanad Salem al-Harbad (i.e., terrorist, shot at Israeli police conducting arrests of 2 terror suspects, at which they shot him in self-defense), 27, was shot dead by Israeli undercover forces who raided his hometown of Rahat in the 1948-occupied territories (i.e., Israel).”


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The UN is 'concerned'. I suppose they should be. The Islamic holy month of killing and mayhem, sometimes the Ramadan Kill-Fest, is coming and that means Peaceful Inner Strugglers are getting armed and even more destructive than usual. 











						The UN, concerned about tension in Palestine ahead of religious holidays
					

The UN, concerned about tension in Palestine ahead of religious holidays




					www.infobae.com
				




United Nations, 22 Mar The UN and several members of its Security Council on Tuesday expressed concern about the high tension between Israelis and Palestinians just as religious holidays approach and urged to avoid a new cycle of violence. “In just over a week, with the beginning of Ramadan, thousands of Muslims will go to pray to the holy places of Jerusalem, with the Jewish and Christian faithful soon after to celebrate Passover and Passover in April. This should be a time for reflection, prayer and peaceful celebration for all religions.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

2022 Elections - Candidate Forum-Huwaida Arraf-5​


----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, the Islamic terrorists use kuffar technology to celebrate acts of killing by the sociopaths they create.











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




https://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch?sub_confirmation=1
https://www.twitter.com/palwatch
https://www.facebook.com/PalestinianMediaWatch
Fatah uses Facebook to celebrate murder of 3 Israeli civilians in 1988: “The self-sacrificing fighters succeeded in killing”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 25, 2022

*Fatah about terrorist murderers: “heroes” who “demonstrated heroism and daring of the most spectacular kind”*​



Facebook continues to prove a willing tool for Abbas’ Fatah Movement to glorify and celebrate murderous terror against Israelis.
On the 34th anniversary of what Palestinians call “the Dimona operation” Fatah posted a video it produced that celebrated the terror attack in which 3 Israeli civilians were brutally murdered.


----------



## Hollie

Cult indoctrination. 

This is a sickness that pervades the Islamist Death Cult..


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

*The PA Ministry of Education held a soccer tournament named after the suicide bomber who murdered 30 (2003)*​
*Fatah called the mastermind of the attack a “heroic fighter” (2011)*​
*The PA has rewarded 4 of the terrorists involved in the attack by paying them over 1,000,000 shekels/ $311,000 / €283,000*​
*Other terrorists involved in the attack have received hundreds of thousands of shekels*​
*Every month, the PA pays tens of thousands of shekels/dollars/euros rewarding the terrorists involved in the attack*​

(full article online)









						20 years after the Passover Seder Massacre - PA continues to glorify and reward the murderers | PMW Analysis
					

The PA has rewarded 4 of the terrorists involved in the attack by paying them over 1,000,000 shekels/ $311,000 / €283,000




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

“I am now 22, and I lost 22 members of my family. Will I lose more when my next birthday comes?”
During the last aggression on the Gaza Strip, Zainab lost 22 members of her family, including her mom, sister, and two brothers. She survived by miracle after spending 12 hours under the rubble.
#IsraelCrimes


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> “I am now 22, and I lost 22 members of my family. Will I lose more when my next birthday comes?”
> During the last aggression on the Gaza Strip, Zainab lost 22 members of her family, including her mom, sister, and two brothers. She survived by miracle after spending 12 hours under the rubble.
> #IsraelCrimes



Not easy being a human shield for Hamas, eh?


----------



## Hollie

From a safe distance, obviously, ''officials'' with Islamic terrorist syndicates are hoping to ramp up the gee-had assuming their minions will be taking one for the cause. 












						Hamas, Islamic Jihad call to increase attacks in West Bank, Jerusalem
					

Hamas and Islamic Jihad have condemned countries such as Morocco, Bahrain, Egypt, and others for normalizing ties with Israel.




					justthenews.com
				




In Beirut, Lebanon, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PJI) and Hamas officials met to discuss how the groups should engage and increase their actions against Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Linda Sarsour Show | Ep. 006 | What Makes America Great?​








						The Linda Sarsour Show | Ep. 006 | What Makes America Great?
					





					goodcast.net


----------



## Hollie

Part of the islamist ''holy'' month.


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## Hollie

The Islamic gee-had terrorists want themselves viewed as a popular movement. 

Makes a Mullah proud. 














						Islamic Jihad members push for internal reform
					

Palestinian Islamic Jihad is mired in an internal dispute as members push the leadership to permit internal elections and expand into a popular movement.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Palestinian Islamic Jihad is mired in an internal dispute as members push the leadership to permit internal elections and expand into a popular movement.


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Pallys sure put their Jew hatreds on hold when there's money to be made. 












						Israel set to raise work permit quotas for Gazans to 20,000
					

Government expected to sign off on move Sunday; unemployment in Gaza, blockaded by both Israel and Egypt, is at around 50%, making work in Israel an attractive option




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Israel set to raise work permit quotas for Gazans to 20,000​Government expected to sign off on move Sunday; unemployment in Gaza, blockaded by both Israel and Egypt, is at around 50%, making work in Israel an attractive option​By AARON BOXERMAN




Palestinian men gather to apply for work permits in Israel, at Jabalia refugee camp in the northern Gaza Strip, on October 6, 2021. (Mahmud Hams/AFP)
The Israeli government is on Sunday expected to raise the number of permits for Gazans to work in Israel by an additional 8,000, to a total of 20,000, the Ministry for Regional Cooperation said


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## Hollie

Elections of the Islamic terrorist sort. 










						Palestinians hold local elections in occupied West Bank
					

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Palestinians voted in local elections in the occupied West...




					www.sfgate.com
				




Most candidates ran as independents, though many have ties to Abbas' Fatah party, and the outcomes will largely depend on local dynamics. The Islamic militant group Hamas, which rules Gaza, is boycotting the elections and refusing to hold them in the isolated territory.


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

A Closer Look at Corruption, Hamas, and Violence in the Gaza Strip
					

The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence tow…




					globalanticorruptionblog.com
				




The recent violent clash between Israel and Hamas followed a pattern that has become depressingly familiar since Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip in 2006: Hamas instigates violence towards Israel and its civilians; Israel responds with military strikes targeting Hamas’s weaponry infrastructure, but since Hamas has intentionally embedded itself in Gaza’s civilian population, Israel’s strikes inevitably claim innocent lives. The question whether Israel’s response was proportional or excessive saturates the news and media. Eventually the two sides reach a tentative ceasefire, the violence subsides, and attention turns elsewhere—until the vicious cycle repeats.


----------



## Hollie

There’s corruption in Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates?










						Majority of Palestinians believe corruption increased, poll finds
					

The results showed that widespread corruption poses the most important challenge to the Palestinians, followed by the “occupation,” economic issues, and the dispute between the PA and Hamas.




					m.jpost.com
				




Most Palestinians believe that corruption in Palestinian Authority institutions has increased in 2021, according to a public opinion poll published on Tuesday.


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## Hollie




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday, Palestinian Media Watch exposed that the Palestinian Authority has been the driving force behind the recent wave of eight stabbing attacks since the start of March in Israel. The Palestinian terror climaxed in the horrific attack on Tuesday in which four Israelis were murdered.

As reported yesterday, the PA and Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah have been calling continuously for “popular resistance,” the PA term for knife and car-ramming terror.

To show their support for terror, not only didn’t the PA condemn any of the previous attacks – it publicized unqualified support for the terrorists, and condemned Israel for killing them to stop the attacks.

Moreover, official PA TV and the official daily newspaper honored the terrorist murderer yesterday as a “Shahid” – Islamic Martyr.

Yet, when Palestinian Minister of Civil Affairs Hussein al-Sheikh met with Israeli Minister of Public Security Bar-Lev an hour after Tuesday’s terror attack, he told him he “was shocked” by the attack:

Significantly, his condemnation was only said to the Israeli minister and was not publicized in any Palestinian Arabic media, nor was the murder of four civilians condemned by any official PA source.

PMW has translated al-Sheikh’s condemnation intended for Israeli ears into Arabic for Palestinians to hear and placed it in Hussein al-Sheikh’s Twitter feed.

PMW is calling on him to publicly condemn the terror in Arabic as well, to show that his condemnation is sincere.











						PALESTINIAN HYPOCRISY: Condemn Terror in English, Praise it in Arabic | United with Israel
					

When official Palestinian Authority media honors terrorists as martyrs, how can we believe a PA official who says he's 'shocked' by terror attacks?




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

But while efforts to promote Israeli-Palestinian dialogue will also be on the agenda, the Palestinian Authority (PA) government in Ramallah has warned the leaders of the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Egypt and Morocco that Jerusalem is using the conference as a way to avoid dealing with the Palestinian issue.

For their part, the rulers of the Gaza Strip have been even blunter in their rejection of the summit. Hamas’ spokesman in Gaza said on March 27 that the US-designated terrorist group rejects “all forms of normalization with Israel” and called on Arab countries that signed agreements with the Jewish state to reconsider.

The rejection of a conference aimed at maintaining regional stability and furthering the cause of peace is but the latest example of a chronic Palestinian refusal to drop maximalist positions so as to negotiate with Israel — all the while embracing bad actors who opposed the democratic values that the Jewish state represents.

(full article online)









						Wrong Side of History, Again: Palestinian Leaders Lambast Middle East Summit | Honest Reporting
					

Israel's hosting of this week's 'Negev Summit' with four Arab countries and the United States is being described by leading media outlets as a "historic




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On the recent occasion of International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement stressed that its heroic women remain murderers, hijackers, and other terrorists.

In a video posted by Fatah and produced by Fatah-run Awdah TV, photos of women terrorists appeared accompanied by text on screen praising their “accomplishments,” including how many Israelis were killed in one of the terrorists’ attack. The female role models chosen by Fatah are:

*Dalal Mughrabi *– led the most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history, in which she and other Fatah terrorists murdered 37 civilians, 12 of them children, in 1978.

*Theresa Halsa *– was a member of the Black September terror organization and participated in the hijacking of Sabena flight 571 in 1972.

*Fatima Barnawi* – placed a bomb in a movie theater in Jerusalem in 1967.


















> *Text on screen: *“On March 8 the entire world, and particularly the Palestinian people... celebrate Women’s Day in appreciation for the effort and sacrifices Palestinian women have made.”



(full article online)









						On Women’s Day Fatah presented its heroic women - a child murderer, a plane hijacker, and other terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh chose to highlight the PA’s terror mom, Um Nasser Abu Hmeid, whose “achievement” is being the mother of 6 terrorists responsible for at least 10 murders




					palwatch.org


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## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> On the recent occasion of International Women’s Day, Abbas’ Fatah Movement stressed that its heroic women remain murderers, hijackers, and other terrorists.
> 
> In a video posted by Fatah and produced by Fatah-run Awdah TV, photos of women terrorists appeared accompanied by text on screen praising their “accomplishments,” including how many Israelis were killed in one of the terrorists’ attack. The female role models chosen by Fatah are:
> 
> *Dalal Mughrabi *– led the most lethal terror attack in Israel’s history, in which she and other Fatah terrorists murdered 37 civilians, 12 of them children, in 1978.
> 
> *Theresa Halsa *– was a member of the Black September terror organization and participated in the hijacking of Sabena flight 571 in 1972.
> 
> *Fatima Barnawi* – placed a bomb in a movie theater in Jerusalem in 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Women’s Day Fatah presented its heroic women - a child murderer, a plane hijacker, and other terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh chose to highlight the PA’s terror mom, Um Nasser Abu Hmeid, whose “achievement” is being the mother of 6 terrorists responsible for at least 10 murders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org


The islamic terrorist version of Islamo-woman's Day is not recognized in any other part of the world. It's uniquely a celebration by Pally sociopaths.


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## Hollie

With an apparent ISIS presence / influence coming to the region, things could go especially bad in the Pal occupied territories. With the Pal terrorists largely being financed and controlled by Iran,  that is not going to sit well with ISIS.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic terrorist version of Islamo-woman's Day is not recognized in any other part of the world. It's uniquely a celebration by Pally sociopaths.


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## Sixties Fan

While the terrorists in both attacks had claimed affiliation with ISIS, security experts have posited that other terror organizations could be the ultimate puppet-masters orchestrating the atrocities.

On Monday, TPS reported that Orit Perlov of the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) at Tel Aviv University rejected the notion that the March 2022 ISIS attacks in Israel were “copycat or individual events,” arguing instead that “social networks and discourse” in the Arab world indicates “that the events are directed and funded by Hamas.”

“The social media campaigns to promote terrorism began two and a half months ago and were aimed at Israeli Arabs known as ‘al-Palestine al-Dahal’ (the Palestinians inside) ahead of Land Day, marked this weekend, and the Muslim month of Ramadan,” reported TPS, paraphrasing Perlov’s comments.

Hamas, for its part, cheered the Hadera attack, calling it a “heroic act that constitutes a natural response to the crimes of the Zionist enemy.”

In March alone, Muslim terrorists have committed nine attacks, killing six Israelis and injuring 25 more.

(full article online)

https://unitedwithisrael.org/hamas-iran-or-lone-wolves-whos-really-behind-isis-terror-in-israel/?utm_source=newsletters_unitedwithisrael_org&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Who’s+Really+Behind+ISIS+Terror+in+Israel%3F+Bomb+Threats+Rock+US+Jewish+Communities%3B+WATCH%3A+IDF+Heroes+Sacrifice+Own+Lives+Fighting+Islamic+Terror&utm_campaign=20220328_m167171676_Who’s+Really+Behind+ISIS+Terror+in+Israel%3F+Bomb+Threats+Rock+US+Jewish+Communities%3B+WATCH%3A+IDF+Heroes+Sacrifice+Own+Lives+Fighting+Islamic+Terror&utm_term=Who_E2_80_99s+Really+Behind+ISIS+Terror+in+Israel_3F


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic terrorist version of Islamo-woman's Day is not recognized in any other part of the world. It's uniquely a celebration by Pally sociopaths.


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## P F Tinmore

Black by Susan Abulhawa​


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## P F Tinmore

susan abulhawa vs Alan Dershowitz     ​


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## Sixties Fan

Land Day is on Wednesday and there has been increasing calls to violence in Palestinian media for the occasion. Ramadan starts this weekend.

Only a few weeks ago, Palestinian leaders were threatening violence, claiming Jews were planning to take over Al Aqsa Mosque for Purim. Now they are saying the same for Ramadan. They've been saying it every year that Jews have been in Jerusalem for a century. It is always a lie and always pure incitement. 

Note that Shtayyeh is not calling for calm from the people he supposedly leads. He is saying that Palestinians are naturally violent and cannot stop themselves from attacking Jews, so the Jews must take responsibility to not anger the half-witted Palestinians who simply cannot control their own violent tendencies.

Shtayyeh then again appealed for Palestinians to take their rightful place at the center of the universe,  stressing that "Arab normalization meetings without ending the occupation are nothing but an illusion, a mirage, and a free reward for Israel." In other words, Palestinian demands should be the most important factor in every decision made by every Arab nation, forever.

(full article online)









						"Moderate" Palestinian prime minister incites violence for this week and Ramadan
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

While the Biden politburo may want to cover up pal acts of Islamic terrorism, there is simply no suppressing the the facts.


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## Hollie

Something of a "NATO-lite" including Arab nations with an apparent unified need to coordinate against Pally / Iranian terrorists.











						A ‘mini-NATO’ for the Middle East won’t be stopped by terror - analysis
					

Many of the participants made clear in press statements on Monday that they viewed continuing the summit as an act of defiance in the face of terrorism and extremism.




					www.google.com
				






Jerusalem Post  Middle East
A ‘mini-NATO’ for the Middle East won’t be stopped by terror - analysis

By LAHAV HARKOV   Published: MARCH 28, 2022 21:47
Updated: MARCH 28, 2022 22:21

Many of the participants made clear in press statements on Monday that they viewed continuing the summit as an act of defiance in the face of terrorism and extremism.

Foreign Minister Yair Lapid, the foreign ministers of four Arab states – Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco and the United Arab Emirates – and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken gathered in Sde Boker on Sunday evening, launching the Negev Summit.


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## Hollie

Palestinian FM Riyad Al-Maliki: The Ukraine Crisis Exposes The International Community's Double Standards; They Only Care About Destruction And Death In Certain Parts Of The World​

''Al'' seems a bit confused. Destruction and death (of Arabs), in certain territories occupied by Islamic terrorists is the desired / intended result.


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Black by Susan Abulhawa​



Arab supremacists think enslaving Africans
gives them the right to appropriate their identity.
 and accuse others of apartheid, while not allowing
a single African in any of the Pal-Arab governments...


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

​Terrorist murderers glorified at Fatah rally in Bethlehem​






Text and pictures posted on the official Fatah Facebook page
*Posted text: *"The Fatah Movement Bethlehem Branch marks the anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution, Fatah's Launch (_Intilaqa_), with a precession and torch lighting, and this is in the presence of Fatah Central Committee member fighter brother Abbas Zaki, and His Honor the Governor of Bethlehem brother Kamel Hamid, the brothers and members of the Fatah Revolutionary Committee, the brother directors of the [PA] Security Forces, the secretary and members of the branch committee, the regional and organizational secretaries, members of the movement from all of the regions, and dignitaries from the region.”




Pally terrorists - clowns in ski masks.


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## Hollie

Pallys sure like to exploit their teenagers. Breeding for the purpose of self-destruction in acts of mass murder / suicide.


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## Hollie

Curious that there seems to be an identifiable Islamic terrorist franchise in the article. 













						House Legislation Targets Social Media Platforms That Allow Terrorist Accounts
					

A new piece of House legislation would mandate that social media platforms remove terrorist organizations and their supporters or face a $50,000 fine for every infraction.




					freebeacon.com
				










Hamas militants / Getty ImagesAdam Kredo• March 29, 2022 4:59 am
SHARE
https://twitter.com/share?url=https...Media+Platforms+That+Allow+Terrorist+Accounts
http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u...edia-platforms-that-allow-terrorist-accounts/

https://freebeacon.com/media/house-...ia-platforms-that-allow-terrorist-accounts/#0
A new piece of House legislation would mandate that social media platforms remove terrorist organizations and their supporters or face a $50,000 fine for every infraction


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## Hollie

Precisely what one expects, praise and lauding for an Arab-Moslem killer,  groomed by sociopaths. 










						Fatah Official Jamal Al-Huwail Praises 'Lone Lion' Who Murdered Four Israelis In A Beersheba Knife Attack: It Proves Palestinians Believe In Palestine From The River To The Sea
					

In a March 23, 2022 interview on Mayadeen TV (Lebanon), Palestinian politician Jamal Al-Huwail, a member of Fatah's Revo...




					www.memri.org
				




Fatah Official Jamal Al-Huwail Praises 'Lone Lion' Who Murdered Four Israelis In A Beersheba Knife Attack: It Proves Palestinians Believe In Palestine From The River To The Sea


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## Sixties Fan

*If elections for PA Chairman were held today, the Palestinians would elect Hamas terrorist Ismail Haniyeh or convicted terrorist murderer Marwan Barghouti*​
*In election for the Palestinian Parliament, Hamas would most likely defeat a splintered Fatah*​
*When asked how to break the current impasse, 68% of Palestinians choose violence, ranging from an all-out terror war (44%) to sporadic terror attacks (24%). Only 25% choose the path of negotiations*​
*The decline of popular Palestinian support for the PLO continues and would only be improved if the organization opened its ranks to internationally designated terror organizations Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad*​
*Most Palestinians (55%) believe that the PA is a burden on the Palestinians; 49% support dissolving the PA *​
*One third of Palestinians believe that the most vital Palestinian goal is to destroy Israel by flooding it with millions of so-called “Palestinian refugees”*​

(full article online)









						What are the Palestinians thinking - A new survey exposes the harsh reality | PMW Analysis
					

If elections for PA Chairman were held today, the Palestinians would elect Hamas terrorist Ismail Haniyeh or convicted terrorist murderer Marwan Barghouti




					palwatch.org


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

It's really getting ugly. The Islamic terrorists have been calling for more gee-had attacks and the attacks are happening. 










						Palestinian terrorist kills five in Bnei Brak shooting spree
					

Terrorist opens fire at passersby in city near Tel Aviv, is shot dead by cop who dies of injuries; Bennett holds security consultation after third deadly terror attack in 8 days




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Palestinian terrorist kills five in Bnei Brak shooting spree
Terrorist opens fire at passersby in city near Tel Aviv, is shot dead by cop who dies of injuries; Bennett holds security consultation after third deadly terror attack in 8 days


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## Hollie

As you might expect, the full time job of pals is discovering ways to kill jews.

Generations of breeding / enabling sociopaths has resulted in a diseased population with one singular focus.












						What are the Palestinians thinking - A new survey exposes the harsh reality | PMW Analysis
					

If elections for PA Chairman were held today, the Palestinians would elect Hamas terrorist Ismail Haniyeh or convicted terrorist murderer Marwan Barghouti




					palwatch.org
				




What are the Palestinians thinking - A new survey exposes the harsh reality​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Mar 29, 2022

*If elections for PA Chairman were held today, the Palestinians would elect Hamas terrorist Ismail Haniyeh or convicted terrorist murderer Marwan Barghouti*​
*In election for the Palestinian Parliament, Hamas would most likely defeat a splintered Fatah*​
*When asked how to break the current impasse, 68% of Palestinians choose violence, ranging from an all-out terror war (44%) to sporadic terror attacks (24%). Only 25% choose the path of negotiations*​
*The decline of popular Palestinian support for the PLO continues and would only be improved if the organization opened its ranks to internationally designated terror organizations Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad*​
*Most Palestinians (55%) believe that the PA is a burden on the Palestinians; 49% support dissolving the PA*​
*One third of Palestinians believe that the most vital Palestinian goal is to destroy Israel by flooding it with millions of so-called “Palestinian refugees”*​


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## Hollie

Yeah - the Islamic unholy month of shooting, bombing and killing. 

Lovely, lovely ''religion''. 












						6 dead, including alleged gunman, in apparent Israel terror attack
					

A gunman randomly killed at least four people when he opened fire on a busy street in Israel on Tuesday before he was taken out by cops, reports said.




					nypost.com
				




The suspected terrorist shooting in Bnei Brak, an ultra-orthodox suburb of Tel Aviv, comes after two other attacks by Arab citizens that have sparked fear of ongoing violence ahead of the start of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan on Saturday.


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## Hollie

More of the disease that afflicts pal Arabs. There was great celebration among the Cultists believing that one of their pal / ISIS heroes had killed Israelis when two Ukrainian tourists were victims.












						Pro-Palestinian social media celebrates death of Ukrainians in terrorism
					

The murders in Bnei Barak have an Arabic hashtag: Operation Bnei Barak. In the hashtag, they post videos of the killing and decorate the images of the perpetrator with flowers.




					www.jpost.com
				




When news of a terror attack began to circulate on social media a number of Palestinian Arabic language media and social media accounts began to celebrate the attack.

The reports claimed that “settlers” were killed in the attack. This might be confusing for some who read western media and think “settlers” refers to Israelis living in the West Bank. In Palestinian populist media and among social media users it almost always refers to everyone who lives in Israel. The term “settlers” in this context goes beyond reference to Jewish Israelis or Jews in general, it refers to foreigners who live in Israel as well as tourists. In the case of the terror attack on Tuesday, two Ukrainians, Victor Sorokopot, 38, and Dimitri Mitrik, 23, living in Israel were victims also labeled as “settlers.”


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## Hollie

As you might expect, the Pals were celebrating the murder / suicide committed by another Arab-Moslem.

Ramping up to the kill-fest associated with the islamic "holy month" when Arabs-Moslems tend to perform a lot of killing.









						Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth
					

Is Islam really a Religion of Peace?  What makes Islam so different?




					www.thereligionofpeace.com
				




February, 2022​Attacks142Killed491Injured268Suicide Blasts4Countries23List of Attacks










						Palestinians In Jenin Celebrate, Hand Out Sweets Following Terrorist Attack In Bnei Brak, Israel: 'Millions Of Martyrs Are Marching To Jerusalem!'
					

On March 29, 2022, the Palestine News channel on YouTube posted video footage of celebrations in Jenin following the sam...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinians in Jenin Celebrate, Hand Out Sweets Following Terrorist Attack in Bnei Brak, Israel: "Millions of Martyrs Are Marching to Jerusalem!"​


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## Sixties Fan

( How Arabs celebrate before Ramadan.  The sacrifices to Allah are always welcome )


Here is how Al Quds described the celebrations in the hometown of the terrorist who murdered 5 Israelis on Tuesday:




> Jenin, its camp and the town of Yabad witnessed, this evening, Tuesday, massive rallies to express pride in the perpetrator of the Bnei Brak operation near Tel Aviv, the martyr Diaa Hamrasha.
> 
> Our correspondent in Jenin stated that thecelebrations included the distribution of sweets in celebration of the operation, and that as soon as the occupation announced that the martyr Hamrasha a was from the town of Ya'bad, hundreds of the town's residents went to his house.
> 
> They staged a sit-in in front of the martyr's family's house and congratulated them, while calls and statements of Hamrasha's death were broadcast via loudspeakers and praised his operation, and confirmed the continuation of the resistance approach.
> 
> In the city and camp of Jenin, hundreds celebrated the operation, with massive rallies during which sweets were distributed. According to Palestinian sources, the Hamrasha family did not receive any official notification about the death of their son, which was published by the Hebrew media.
> 
> It is reported that Diaa is a freed prisoner and was arrested on charges of belonging to the Fatah movement and currently owns a shop that sells cellular devices in his town of Ya'bad, where mourning was declared.



Note that in this mainstream Palestinian newspaper, the murderer is referred to as a "martyr."

I'm not going to say that 100% of Palestinians support these terror attacks. But zero percent of Palestinian media says anything negative about them, or about the celebrations. Never is there an op-ed denouncing the culture that celebrates death.  

Even the reports that mention Mahmoud Abbas' half-hearted condemnation - probably strongly suggested by Western leaders - do not give any indication that they agree with the condemnation.

Western media shies away from describing this aspect of Palestinian society, as if it is vaguely Islamophobic to point out that an entire people largely supports or condones murdering Jewish people. 

A major lesson from the Abraham Accords is that it doesn't have to be this way. This hate isn't an inherently Arab thing. It is a Palestinian thing. Only Palestinians reward terrorists with jobs and cash rewards. Only Palestinians regard the worst mass murderers as heroes. Only Palestinians hold wild celebrations when one of them successfully murders Jews. 

It is an immoral society. 

(full article online)









						Massive Palestinian celebrations in terrorist's home town  (photos, video)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

Al-Araby, which is based in London, and Egyptian Al Masry al-Youm, both briefly mention that "Following the attack, mosques in the West Bank and Gaza Strip raised the takbir, to celebrate the operation in Tel Aviv."
"Raising the takbir" means publicly praising Allah, usually in the form of "Allah hu-Akbar."

Imagine the outcry if a synagogue of any denomination would blast out of loudspeakers (or publish in its weekly newsletter)  joy and praise at the murder of civilians. It would be a major news item. The foremost critics would be Jews themselves. 

And rightly so.

Yet, today, it isn't only Palestinian youths celebrating the murders of five people. It is their mosques - mosques that are run by older, respected men. 

Where is the outrage from Muslims worldwide? Where is the horror at sacred mosques being used as places to celebrate terror? Where are the hand-wringing articles, in any language, saying that the Muslims who use Islam to celebrate death aren't "real Muslims?" Where are the social media posts that show disgust from religious Muslims at their faith being hijacked by immoral worshipers of death?

This is not to say that there are no Muslims horrified at these attacks - there certainly are. But the fact that no one expects any denunciations of the use of Islam to celebrate the most heinous crimes shows that the bar of expected behavior from Muslims, even Western Muslims,  is very, very low. 

Think about it: Can you even imagine that the Council on American-Islamic Relations would ever criticize fellow Muslims for supporting terror and using Islam to justify it? It is pure fantasy. But everyone would expect major Jewish organizations to forthrightly condemn any Jews doing anything remotely resembling this.

Part of the reason for Islamic terror is because it is so thoroughly justified and celebrated among so many Muslims without any pushback from their leaders - or from Western media and politicians who are cowed into worrying that any criticism will be labeled Islamophobic or result in death threats. 

Arab and Muslim media today are romanticizing the attacks, or at best ignoring them - but they are emphatically not condemning them. This creates an environment where such heinous attacks are all but inevitable. 


(full article online)









						Mosques join in celebration of murdered Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

As documented by Joe Truzman, here is a list of Palestinian groups that praised the terror attack in Bnei Brak yesterday:

Hamas
Palestinian Islamic Jihad
PFLP
DFLP
PFLP-GC
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades (Fatah)
Mujahideen Brigades
Popular Resistance Committees
Popular Resistance Movement

This is besides Hezbollah.

Mahmoud Abbas' half-hearted condemnation of the attack reportedly came after Israel sent a strong message to him to do so.  As far as I can tell, this is obvious to the Palestinian media, none of which have condemned the attack, even the media that slavishly echoes the official Palestinian position. 

(full article online)









						Every major Palestinian party praised the terror attack
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> as if it is vaguely Islamophobic to point out that an entire people largely supports or condones murdering Jewish people.


They are all illegal settlers.


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## P F Tinmore

The Israeli Authorities Want To Kick Us Out Of Our Own Home​


----------



## P F Tinmore

“I’ll Die Over My Rubble”: Israel’s Army Is Terrorizing This Palestinian Family​


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## Hollie

The sociopaths are heaping praise on the sociopaths they create.

It's an obvious mental disorder shared by Cult that holds to the values of an angry, belligerent politico-religious ideology. 










						Abbas’ Fatah praises yesterday's terror attack: “We bow before you in honor and admiration” | PMW Analysis
					

“Mercy, pardon, and peace to your soul. We bow before you in honor and admiration. We promise you, heroic Martyr, that we are continuing until victory or Martyrdom, and the victory is indeed near, Allah willing”




					palwatch.org
				




Abbas’ Fatah praises yesterday's terror attack: “We bow before you in honor and admiration”​


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> They are all illegal settlers.


Right.  All Arabs are colonizers from Arabia, and legal and illegal migrants to ancient Canaan, the ancient homeland of the Jewish nation/People.

Glad we are not clarified.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> The Israeli Authorities Want To Kick Us Out Of Our Own Home​


Was the house built with a permit?  Is it theirs or have they been living rent free in a Jewish owned home?


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## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> “I’ll Die Over My Rubble”: Israel’s Army Is Terrorizing This Palestinian Family​


Same question:

Was the house built with a permit? Is it theirs or have they been living rent free in a Jewish owned home?


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Was the house built with a permit?  Is it theirs or have they been living rent free in a Jewish owned home?


Permit shermit, it is occupied territory.


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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Same question:
> 
> Was the house built with a permit? Is it theirs or have they been living rent free in a Jewish owned home?


You aren't very smart, are you?


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Permit shermit, it is occupied territory.


That's why the Arab-Moslem squatters are being evicted.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Sequence of events:*​*February: The PA, including Abbas, repeatedly calls for terror
March 1- 21: PA glorifies terrorists who died in terror attacks 
March 22: Terrorist murders 4 in Be’er Sheva, PA openly praises him as “Martyr”
March 27: Terrorist murders 2 in Hadera, PA is silent
March 29: Terrorist murders 5 in Bnei Brak, Abbas forced to issue lame condemnation*​After 2 months of intensified PA promoting terror and support for terror attacks, 3 terror attacks by Arabs in one week leave 11 people in Israel murdered. PA Chairman Abbas was the leader of the calls to Palestinians to murder Israelis. For example, at the PLO Central Council meeting in February: “President [Abbas called] in all his speeches to initiate popular resistance.” [Official PA TV, Feb. 8, 2022] PMW has documented that “popular resistance” is the PA call for civilians to carry out terror attacks.

Having promoted terror for 2 months, the PA glorified the first terror attack in which 4 Israelis were murdered. After criticism from Israel, the PA was silent about the second attack in which 2 were murdered. And then only when Israel's defense minister and the United States pressured Abbas he issued a lame condemnation.


*Sincere Abbas condemnation
of the terror attack in Saudi Arabia **Insincere Abbas condemnation 
of the terror attack in Israel *“[PA] President Mahmoud Abbas said in a telegram he sent to Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud: ‘*We strongly condemn the despicable terror act and all kinds of acts of aggression and crime* that harm the security and stability of Saudi Arabia and *contradict the international and humanitarian laws and regulations and morality* (refers to missile attack by Iranian-backed Houthi forces in Yemen targeting an oil facility in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on March 25, 2022 -Ed.).’
The president emphasized his stand and solidarity with sister Saudi Arabia on all that is likely to prevent *these terror attacks*, and he wished that Almighty Allah will protect them and guide them for the good, security, and prosperity of Saudi Arabia and its brotherly people.
The president also sent a telegram to [Saudi] Crown Prince, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defense, and Council of Economic and Development Affairs Chairman Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud, *and strongly condemned the cowardly rocket attack and all kinds of criminal acts that seek to undermine Saudi Arabia’s security and stability*. The president said:* ‘We express our full solidarity with Saudi Arabia and its leadership against all kinds of acts of aggression, crime, and terror, and those who are behind them,*and we wish that Almighty Allah will protect Saudi Arabia and its people with full goodness, security, and wellbeing.’”
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 26, 2022]“President Mahmoud Abbas expressed tonight his *condemnation of the killing of Israeli civilians*earlier this evening, *and stressed that the killing of Palestinian and Israeli civilians *will only lead to further deterioration of the situation, especially as we are approaching the holy month of Ramadan and the Christian and Jewish holidays.
President Abbas warned against attempts by Israeli settlers and other sides to exploit this condemned incident to carry out attacks and reactions against our Palestinian people.
He pointed out that the cycle of violence confirms that permanent, comprehensive and just peace is the shortest way to provide security and stability for the Palestinian and Israeli peoples and the peoples of the entire region.” 
[WAFA, official PA news agency, English edition, March 29, 2022;
WAFA, official PA news agency, March 29, 2022, Official PA daily Al-Hayyat Al-Jadida, March 30, 2022]


(full article online)









						PMW unmasks Abbas’ lame “condemnation” | PMW Analysis
					

After the PA’s repeated calls for terror and the PA’s repeated support for terror, Arabs murder 11 people in 3 terror attacks in one week




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist  politburo mouthpiece is announcing a “new level of confrontation”. 

I suspect the Islamic terrorists are going to get a heap’in help’in of confrontation from a very confrontational Israeli military. 
​
Saleh Al-Arouri, Deputy Chairman Of Hamas Political Bureau: The Recent Terror Attacks Constitute A New Level In Our Confrontation With Israel; Arab States Should Support, Arm Us Like The West Supports, Arms Ukraine; Instead, They Normalize With Israel​








						Saleh Al-Arouri, Deputy Chairman Of Hamas Political Bureau: The Recent Terror Attacks Constitute A New Level In Our Confrontation With Israel; Arab States Should Support, Arm Us Like The West Supports, Arms Ukraine; Instead, They Normalize With Israe
					

Saleh Al-Arouri, the Deputy Chairman of Hamas' Political Bureau, said in a March 28, 2022 interview on Mayadeen TV (Leba...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

*Boy tells uncle – an imprisoned murderer: “You are one of the heroes of Palestine”*​
*Boy thinks uncle - an imprisoned murderer - is “an extraordinary hero,” wants to “buy a rifle” to set him free and take back Jaffa and Jerusalem *​
*Daughter of terrorist delighted she saw her father stab a prison guard: “I’m proud of you. When I saw the video of the stabbing I was happy”*​

(full article online)









						Proud kids tell their murderer relatives they are heroes – PA kids’ values | PMW Analysis
					

Boy tells uncle – an imprisoned murderer: “You are one of the heroes of Palestine”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

( Palestinians preparing for Ramadan )
( And please, stop calling Judea and Samaria "West Bank".  It is a continuation of the Roman attempt to wipe out the Jewish homeland )

A Palestinian stabbed a passenger on an Israeli bus in the West Bank and was shot dead by another passenger, the Israeli military said.

The national ambulance service said the man who was stabbed had suffered moderate wounds.

In a separate incident, Israeli forces killed at least two Palestinians in clashes that erupted during a raid in the West Bank that followed deadly Arab attacks in Israel.

The Israeli military said its forces and border police entered the refugee camp in the city of Jenin to “apprehend terrorist suspects.”

“During the operation, terrorists opened fire at our forces. Israeli troops returned fire that struck the gunmen. An Israeli soldier was slightly wounded,” the military said in a statement.

The Palestinian health ministry said two Palestinians, aged 17 and 23, were killed in the clashes.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said in a statement that “continued raids and daily killings of our people and the daily crimes by settlers will lead the region towards more tension and escalation.”

(full article online)









						Israeli Bus Passenger Wounded in West Bank Terror Stabbing
					

A member of the Israeli forces stands guard at the scene of a stabbing attack at the Gush Etzion settlement …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

Diseased Islamo- family values. 











						Proud kids tell their murderer relatives they are heroes – PA kids’ values | PMW Analysis
					

Boy tells uncle – an imprisoned murderer: “You are one of the heroes of Palestine”




					palwatch.org
				




Proud kids tell their murderer relatives they are heroes – PA kids’ values​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Mar 31, 2022

*Boy tells uncle – an imprisoned murderer: “You are one of the heroes of Palestine”*​
*Boy thinks uncle - an imprisoned murderer - is “an extraordinary hero,” wants to “buy a rifle” to set him free and take back Jaffa and Jerusalem*​
*Daughter of terrorist delighted she saw her father stab a prison guard: “I’m proud of you. When I saw the video of the stabbing I was happy”*​


----------



## Hollie

The pally Islamic terrorist gee-had is going to find an armed and determined Israeli anti gee-had force. 











						Israelis with gun licenses should carry arms, says Bennett
					

What can Israel's citizens expect? "Be alert. Whoever has a weapons license, this is the time to carry it," said Prime Minister Naftali Bennett.




					www.jpost.com
				




Israelis with gun licenses should carry arms, says Bennett​What can Israel's citizens expect? "Be alert. Whoever has a weapons license, this is the time to carry it," said Prime Minister Naftali Bennett.​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The pal Islamic terrorist welfare fraud pays well.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(Time to send disrespectful Arabs back to Arabia?  Return to Sender, address well known.......  )

Palestinian Authority news agency Wafa writes:






> Occupation MK Itamar Ben Gvir, at the head of 202 settlers, stormed the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, where they carried out provocative tours and performed racist Talmudic rituals under the protection of dozens of Israeli policemen .


Both the Israeli Left and the Palestinian Arabs predicted that violence would result from Ben Gvir's visit, but he quietly walked around for 15 minutes and left.

But here we see that the Palestinian Authority is calling Jewish prayer not only "Talmudic rituals," but "racist Talmudic rituals."

This is new. I cannot find the phrase  "racist Talmudic rituals" before February 22 of this year. 

This isn't just antisemitic - it is official antisemitism from the Palestinian Authority, and the formulation of "racist Talmudic rituals" was copied slavishly in many other Arab sites, including in Egypt.










						New lexicon entry from the Palestinian Authority: Jewish prayer = "racist Talmudic rituals"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBTOPIC*:  Inducement of Violence
⁜→  et al,

*BLUF*:  If there is one thing that both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have in common it is → that neither will not capitulate (_so far_).



Hollie said:


> The pally Islamic terrorist gee-had is going to find an armed and determined Israeli anti gee-had force.
> Israelis with gun licenses should carry arms, says Bennett​What can Israel's citizens expect? "Be alert. Whoever has a weapons license, this is the time to carry it," said Prime Minister Naftali Bennett.​


*(COMMENT)*

You will notice that the one current situation that theArab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip all have in common is that the have never offered up a "viable solution."  The Arab Palestinians throw up roadblocks to Negotiations between the two opponents.

A political solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is unfathomable by any multidimensional view.  The political solution is nearly impossible to define, it is difficult to interpret and understand, and it is ghostlike.  The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has eluded a solution because it mirrors the thought that a solution can exist (_*The solution to problem is to prove that all political differences will eventually converge*)_.  Politically, this means that there can be (_*at some point*_) a meeting of the minds (a convergence if the Israeli Position and Palestinian Position.  And that is the paradox.  It cannot be a case wherein Israel is encompassed into the Greater Palestinian State, or that the Palestinians pose a threat to the peaceful existence of the Israelis.  In point of fact, there will be not solution unless one side equals the other side.  And that is like saying a "square-circle."  It is impossible.



			
				Jerusalem Post said:
			
		

> "The secret of our existence is the mutual responsibility among us and our determination to maintain the home that we have built – at any price," he explained, adding that "citizens of Israel, we will prevail this time as well."
> *SOURCE*:  _*By TOVAH LAZAROFF, *_*ANNA AHRONHEIM*. Published: MARCH 30, 2022



*(COMMENT)*

Politically speaking, this means that there will be no case where the Arab Palestinians (*from where-ever*) present a threat to the citizenry of Israel, the territorial integrity, and sovereignty of Israel without a continuation of the conflict.



			
				Jerusalem Post said:
			
		

> "We have repeatedly warned the occupation of the consequences of escalating its violations and crimes, as our Palestinian people will not remain passive in front of it, and will confront its terrorism by all means, and they will protect their sanctuary, the farthest corner and the entire occupied lands, and he will defend it with comprehensive resistance, which will continue to deter the occupation, and to restrain its aggression, until its departure from our land," the terror group added.
> *SOURCE*:





			
				Jerusalem Post said:
			
		

> *By TOVAH LAZAROFF, ANNA AHRONHEIM * Published: MARCH 30, 2022



*(COMMENT)*

And this is the scope and nature of the condition that must be modified.  This political condition will not converge on the peace and security if Israel or the Jewish National Home.







_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> *SUBTOPIC*:  Inducement of Violence
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  If there is one thing that both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have in common it is → that neither will not capitulate (_so far_).
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that the one current situation that theArab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip all have in common is that the have never offered up a "viable solution."  The Arab Palestinians throw up roadblocks to Negotiations between the two opponents.
> 
> A political solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is unfathomable by any multidimensional view.  The political solution is nearly impossible to define, it is difficult to interpret and understand, and it is ghostlike.  The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has eluded a solution because it mirrors the thought that a solution can exist (_*The solution to problem is to prove that all political differences will eventually converge*)_.  Politically, this means that there can be (_*at some point*_) a meeting of the minds (a convergence if the Israeli Position and Palestinian Position.  And that is the paradox.  It cannot be a case wherein Israel is encompassed into the Greater Palestinian State, or that the Palestinians pose a threat to the peaceful existence of the Israelis.  In point of fact, there will be not solution unless one side equals the other side.  And that is like saying a "square-circle."  It is impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Politically speaking, this means that there will be no case where the Arab Palestinians (*from where-ever*) present a threat to the citizenry of Israel, the territorial integrity, and sovereignty of Israel without a continuation of the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And this is the scope and nature of the condition that must be modified.  This political condition will not converge on the peace and security if Israel or the Jewish National Home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> You will notice that the one current situation that theArab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip all have in common is that the have never offered up a "viable solution."


Sure they have. International law and UN resolutions. Two things Israel hates.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: Are you the descendants of the Canaanites?​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

> “The [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates held the Israeli government led by [Israeli Prime Minister] Naftali Bennett fully and directly responsible for the invasions of the Al-Aqsa Mosque in general, *the continuation of invasions during the blessed month of Ramadan, and the explosion that they will cause in the situation in the occupied Palestinian territories*.
> In a statement yesterday [March 26, 2022], the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that *the malicious intentions behind the ‘storm’ that the occupation is raising and advancing regarding the blessed month of Ramadan… are becoming clearer by the day*.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 27, 2022]


For those unfamiliar with the site, it is important to stress, that the “Al-Aqsa Mosque,” - delineated in red in the image below - is only one relatively small part of the Temple Mount - delineated in green. Moreover, while Jews are permitted to enter the Temple Mount, they are permitted to do so only for limited hours of the day, are only allowed to walk around the periphery of the site and are strictly prohibited from entering the mosque itself. Ignoring this inconvenient reality, in order to attack Israel and vilify all Jews entering the holy site, the PA systematically refers to the entire Temple Mount as the “Al-Aqsa Mosque.”






One of the PA’s most senior Islamic authorities, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who serves as the Supreme Shari’ah Judge of Palestine and PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ Advisor on Religious Affairs and Islamic Relations also tried to inflame tensions and warned that the imaginary Israeli plan to “break into the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque” would have consequences not only for Israel but “for the world.” Clarifying that his objection to Jews exercising their right to visit Judaism’s holiest site is not limited to the month of Ramadan alone, but rather a blanket PA demand, Al-Habbash added that these visits are “unacceptable at any time”:

(full article online )









						PA incitement before Ramadan: Claims Israel plans “to break in” to the Al-Aqsa Mosque and deliberately cause an “explosion” during the Muslim holiday | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas’ Advisor and Supreme Shari’ah Judge: Israel “deliberately creates crises, plans to break into the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque”




					palwatch.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC:  Again No Viable Solution
⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  Again, that will no create a solution.  There is NO Law or Binding Resolution that supports your claim.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sure they have. International law and UN resolutions. Two things Israel hates.


*(COMMENT)*
.
.Here again, you do not actually say anything.

If the Treaty Boundaries establish by the Israeli-Jordanian Treaty, or the Israeli-Egyptian Treaty were followed, Israel would have sovereign control over the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza.  That is the International Law.  Remember, the Arab Palestinians did not form a (*and I say this tongue and cheek*) working government until December 2012.  In the last decade, Arab Palestinian Leadership has become more dysfunctional not less.  Look at all the Donor Contributions made.

The Arab Palestinians have not offered any viable solutions that creates anything better than they have now.  If the Israelis bow to the Demands of the Arab Palestinians, the conflict will expand.  And the Israelis will just claim the territories by the Right-of-Self-Determination again.
.
No!  The Arab Palestinians have contributed absolutely nothing (_I say again → "*absolutely nothing*"_) to further the cause of peace in the regions of the Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Jerusalem.
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R
Exhibit 1:  Excerpt from UN  Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, Memo December 2012




Exhibit 2:  Excerpt from UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, Memo December 2012


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC:  Again No Viable Solution
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  Again, that will no create a solution.  There is NO Law or Binding Resolution that supports your claim.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> .Here again, you do not actually say anything.
> 
> If the Treaty Boundaries establish by the Israeli-Jordanian Treaty, or the Israeli-Egyptian Treaty were followed, Israel would have sovereign control over the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza.  That is the International Law.  Remember, the Arab Palestinians did not form a (*and I say this tongue and cheek*) working government until December 2012.  In the last decade, Arab Palestinian Leadership has become more dysfunctional not less.  Look at all the Donor Contributions made.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not offered any viable solutions that creates anything better than they have now.  If the Israelis bow to the Demands of the Arab Palestinians, the conflict will expand.  And the Israelis will just claim the territories by the Right-of-Self-Determination again.
> .
> No!  The Arab Palestinians have contributed absolutely nothing (_I say again → "*absolutely nothing*"_) to further the cause of peace in the regions of the Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Jerusalem.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> Exhibit 1:  Excerpt from UN  Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, Memo December 2012
> 
> View attachment 624512
> Exhibit 2:  Excerpt from UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, Memo December 2012
> View attachment 624511





RoccoR said:


> If the Treaty Boundaries establish by the Israeli-Jordanian Treaty, or the Israeli-Egyptian Treaty were followed, Israel would have sovereign control over the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza.


I have offered my legal objection to these treaties, but you have never responded.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> I have offered my legal objection to these treaties, but you have never responded.


Your legal objections are invalid.  They have no head, feet, any part of a body to be taken seriously.

You have zero business with any of these treaties.  You are not a citizen of any of those countries, therefore you have zero say as to what the Egyptians, the Jordanians, and now every other country decides to sign with Israel.

Are you an International law Lawyer?  No

Stop playing at being one, and start caring for the poor Arabs who have been stuck with the disgusting leaders they have both with Hamas and the PA.

There is where one needs Accords and Treaties to put an end to the Money cow both parties have been enjoying since ......when exactly?   

How much money few of the clans in power continue to get for themselves somehow from Qatar, the EU and others?  

Pay for slay.
Pay to be educated that Jews have no rights and that it is Islamic land, not Jewish land, etc.

Mr. Lawyer (ha), go study International law and stop bothering us with your endless ignorance born from your Christian learned hatred of Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Your legal objections are invalid.  They have no head, feet, any part of a body to be taken seriously.
> 
> You have zero business with any of these treaties.  You are not a citizen of any of those countries, therefore you have zero say as to what the Egyptians, the Jordanians, and now every other country decides to sign with Israel.
> 
> Are you an International law Lawyer?  No
> 
> Stop playing at being one, and start caring for the poor Arabs who have been stuck with the disgusting leaders they have both with Hamas and the PA.
> 
> There is where one needs Accords and Treaties to put an end to the Money cow both parties have been enjoying since ......when exactly?
> 
> How much money few of the clans in power continue to get for themselves somehow from Qatar, the EU and others?
> 
> Pay for slay.
> Pay to be educated that Jews have no rights and that it is Islamic land, not Jewish land, etc.
> 
> Mr. Lawyer (ha), go study International law and stop bothering us with your endless ignorance born from your Christian learned hatred of Jews.


Nice rant.

Nothing that relates to my post though.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Nice rant.
> 
> Nothing that relates to my post though.


You just like to play at it having nothing to do with your posts.  That is what you do.  These endless games at knowing things you do not know about.

You want what you want:  Israel's destruction.

All you are seeing is fewer and fewer Arabs and Muslims wanting to destroy Israel.

You know nothing about any kind of law, especially the kind between countries.

Ciao


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Again No Viable Solution
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:   You can challenge the official record all you want.

◈ * Israel - Jordan Peace Treaty (1994) is entered into the UN Official Record Volume 2042* • I- 35325​◈  *Israeli-Egyptian Peace Treaty (1974) Journal No 17813*​





P F Tinmore said:


> I have offered my legal objection to these treaties, but you have never responded.


*(COMMENT)*

At the time these Treaties were enacted, the International Community celebrated them.  What the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP) is doing is hold "peace" hostage with a ransom of being to their demands.

The HoAP is doing is is a classical action found in the 1938 
Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism.  See:  *Library of Congress*​

(*IMO*): What the HoAP is doing is committing Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.

Responses have been written on this subject many times over the last decade.  Today, the current laws that are broken most often by the HoAP have to do with Customary and International Humanitarian Law being violated:

◈  Rule #11​◈  Rules #23 and #24​◈  Rule #97​◈  The HoAP who  commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,​◈  The HoAP who seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them,​◈  The HoAP who are guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,​◈  The HoAP who  commit intentional offense which have caused the death of one or more persons,​◈  Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​◈  Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​◈  The unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Again No Viable Solution
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:   You can challenge the official record all you want.
> 
> ◈ * Israel - Jordan Peace Treaty (1994) is entered into the UN Official Record Volume 2042* • I- 35325​◈  *Israeli-Egyptian Peace Treaty (1974) Journal No 17813*​
> View attachment 624694
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the time these Treaties were enacted, the International Community celebrated them.  What the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP) is doing is hold "peace" hostage with a ransom of being to their demands.
> 
> The HoAP is doing is is a classical action found in the 1938
> Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism.  See:  *Library of Congress*​
> 
> (*IMO*): What the HoAP is doing is committing Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> Responses have been written on this subject many times over the last decade.  Today, the current laws that are broken most often by the HoAP have to do with Customary and International Humanitarian Law being violated:
> 
> ◈  Rule #11​◈  Rules #23 and #24​◈  Rule #97​◈  The HoAP who  commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,​◈  The HoAP who seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them,​◈  The HoAP who are guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,​◈  The HoAP who  commit intentional offense which have caused the death of one or more persons,​◈  Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​◈  Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​◈  The unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


WOW, super duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You just like to play at it having nothing to do with your posts.  That is what you do.  These endless games at knowing things you do not know about.
> 
> You want what you want:  Israel's destruction.
> 
> All you are seeing is fewer and fewer Arabs and Muslims wanting to destroy Israel.
> 
> You know nothing about any kind of law, especially the kind between countries.
> 
> Ciao


All that blabber and you don't know what law I am talking about.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> All that blabber and you don't know what law I am talking about.


Get over yourself.

You want a law which will say that the Jews do not have any legal right to the mandate for Palestine, any amount of sand of it.

That law does not exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Get over yourself.
> 
> You want a law which will say that the Jews do not have any legal right to the mandate for Palestine, any amount of sand of it.
> 
> That law does not exist.


The Mandate was forbidden from making land transfers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad - Write for Rights 2021​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate was forbidden from making land transfers.


What did the other 3 Mandates say?

And how come 78% of the Mandate for Palestine was Transferred to the Hashemite Arabs of Arabia?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I have offered my legal objection to these treaties, but you have never responded.


YouTube videos are not legal objections.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate was forbidden from making land transfers.


There were no land transfers by the Mandate. Any other irrelevancies you would like to offer... aside from the usual ones?


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Israelis are looking to be proactive in terms of dealing with the islamist gee-had. 












						Israeli Forces Kill 3 Palestinian Militants in West Bank
					

4 Israeli officers wounded in incident




					www.voanews.com
				




JERUSALEM — 
Israeli security forces killed three gunmen from the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad in a shootout in the occupied West Bank on Saturday.

"This is a terrorist cell that has been involved in terrorist activity against security forces recently, and was apparently on its way to another attack," the police said.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
*SUBTOPIC*: Intentional Deception.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a half-truth.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate was forbidden from making land transfers.


*(COMMENT)*

The Mandate was never used as a transfer method for any territory.  And You should watch out for what you imply.

In the case of Israel, The Council endorsed the "right of Self-Determination."






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

You would think the territories occupied by the pally terrorists are thousands of miles from NYC but the Pallys bring their ideological baggage of hate and derision wherever they go. 











						NYC Pro-Palestinian Rally: Zionist Professors Should Be Banned From Colleges, Zionist Students Should Not Be In The Same Spaces As Palestinians; Zionism Is A Genocidal Threat To Us
					

On March 30, 2022, several pro-Palestinian organizations held a Land Day march in New York City. In video footage posted...




					www.memri.org
				




NYC Pro-Palestinian Rally: Zionist Professors Should Be Banned From Colleges, Zionist Students Should Not Be In The Same Spaces As Palestinians; Zionism Is A Genocidal Threat To Us​


----------



## Hollie

It's been a busy month for the Peacefull Inner Strugglers. 

Just a warm up for the islamist ''holy month'' of killing and maiming?












						In one month: 52 shooting attacks during March
					

Number of terror attacks in March highest since 2017, new report shows.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




The Moatti Information Center has published data on the terror attacks carried out by Palestinian Authority Arabs against Israeli targets throughout the month of March 2022.

According to the report, the number of terror attacks carried out in March was the highest since 2017: 821 "acts of war" were conducted during the month, killing 12 Israelis and wounding 64. Twenty Palestinian Authority Arabs died as well.


----------



## Hollie

​Secretary of Fatah's Jenin Branch, At Rally Celebrating Bnei Brak Attack: Shooter Was a Fatah Hero​





Quite a scene. The Islamic terrorist rally included giving thanks to allah for his apparent help and assistance in killing Israelis. 

Lovely folks with a lovely ''religion''.


----------



## Hollie

It's apparently a game of one upsmanship as the Islamic terrorist franchises all compete to apply slathering praise to another of the sociopaths they bred. 











						Fatah Official From Jenin Jamal Al-Huwail Praises Bnei Brak, Israel Terrorist: He Restored The Glory Of Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, And Islamic Jihad; The Solution To Occupation Is The Use Of Force
					

Jamal Al-Huwail, a member of the Fatah Revolutionary Council from Jenin, said in a March 29, 2022 interview on Al-Mayade...




					www.memri.org
				




Fatah Official From Jenin Jamal Al-Huwail Praises Bnei Brak, Israel Terrorist: He Restored The Glory Of Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, And Islamic Jihad; The Solution To Occupation Is The Use Of Force​


----------



## Hollie

How strange. We're told by the humble servants of Islamic terrorists that ''this is not a religious conflict'', yet the humble servants of allah say it is. 











						PA sides with terror organizations – rejects Israel’s right to stop terror | PMW Analysis
					

PA joins Islamic Jihad and Hamas by condemning Israel’s killing of 3 terrorists on way to Israeli city




					palwatch.org
				




PA sides with terror organizations – rejects Israel’s right to stop terror​Itamar Marcus  | Apr 3, 2022

*PA joins Islamic Jihad and Hamas by condemning Israel’s killing of 3 terrorists on way to Israeli city*​
*PA Prime Minister: Killing terrorists on way to terror attack is “extrajudicial murder” and “horrific crime”*​
*PA Chairman Abbas: Killing terrorists on way to terror attack is a “challenge to… international law”*​
It only took only two days for Palestinian Media Watch’s assessment to be proven correct - that Mahmoud Abbas’ condemnation of the recent Palestinian terror was “insincere,” and not an honest statement rejecting terror.

On Saturday morning, Israeli soldiers killed three Palestinian terrorists who were on their way to an Israeli city to commit a major terror attack. One of the terrorists Seif Abu Libdeh wrote a long farewell letter - which he read in front of a camera and then placed in their car, assuming it would be found by the Israeli army after their attack. The Islamic Jihad terror organization publicized the video after the terrorists were killed.

In the note he wrote of his motivation to commit a terror attack and die as a Martyr:


> “I, the humble servant of Allah… Seif Hifzi Abu Libdeh... I surrender my soul easily for the sake of Allah, for the liberation of Muslim Palestine, from the defilement of the attacking Jews.”
> [QUDS NET, April 2, 2022]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Intentional Deception
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

*BLUF*:  I think you are correct. The policy they hold is " Islam is against all forms of religious, ethnic or sectarian extremism and bigotry." But here is the tension. They believe that the Arab Palestinian holds the "right" by all divine law. That anything that conflicts with this policy is illegal (no argument).



Hollie said:


> How strange. We're told by the humble servants of Islamic terrorists that ''this is not a religious conflict'', yet the humble servants of allah say it is.


*(COMMENT)*
Well, they [Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and Islamic Resistance Members (IRM)] say a number of political themes.  They want to sound like real organized effort by some portion (not all) of the civil population with a cause.   The HoAP and IRM want to portray themselves as a only resisting the foreign Army on foreign territory (the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) and Civil Administration).  

The HoAP and IRM are trying to give the impression that the fight the IDF to regain the legally established government taken over by an occupying power.  The HoAP want to put forth the concept that the IDF represent a disruptive civil order and stability that the Arab Palestinian built up and maintained.  The organized effort to disseminate false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive the International Community.   The HoAP and IRM want to present their organization amorally just under the teachings of the Islamic faith, but that to argue against HoAP and IRM violence.

Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and Islamic Resistance Members (IRM) want to pretend that what they do has the objective of national liberation and resistance movement. Its goal is to liberate Palestine.

And while the HoAP and IRM want to create the illusion that it is willing to negotiate for a fair and equitable peace that is so far from the truth that it is unworthy of any consideration.   When HoAP and IRM say "Palestine," the HoAP and IRM want the entirety of the territory which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south.  And they make it very clear that they are willing to continue the unconventional warfare effort until the Occupying Power (the Israelis) overthrown and the entirety of the territory is secured. 

The key here is that to secure "Palestine" that not only dissolve the 'State of Israel,' but remove the Jewish National Home all together.  The whole of Palestine is a natural right, to both the Arab individual and general population of Arabs.   And this s a very good recruitment pitch.  That, plus the stipend (if captured or killed) makes many more valuable if captured (particularly).





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Prof. Susan M. Akram on the USA PATRIOT Act (recorded on 2001 Nov 10)​


----------



## P F Tinmore

A message from Laila Al Marayati chairwoman of KinderUSA SD​





__





						Home New
					

Our Mission Our mission is to improve the lives of Palestinian children and other children in crisis through development and emergency relief. Sign up Where We Work We work in Gaza, The West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Pakistan, Uganda and many more countries in the world. Learn More Ways to Give From...




					www.kinderusa.org


----------



## Hollie

Interesting dynamic in that Egypt and Qatar are involved with trying to keep the pal terrorists calm leading up the Islamic ''holy month'', ''_due to the motivation among terrorists to carry out attacks during Ramadan_''

Don't all religions use their ''holy celebrations'' to kill people?









						Gaza Terror Orgs Decide on Response to IDF’s Operation in Jenin
					

The terror groups plan to expand their terror attacks on the ground, but not yet with missiles.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Egypt and Qatar, according to the sources, have been working for the past two days to ensure calm ahead of Ramadan, understanding that an escalation towards the sensitive month will lead to increased terrorist activity and further escalation, also due to the motivation among terrorists to carry out attacks during Ramadan.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

NUQ&A: Author Hala Alyan​


----------



## Hollie

Mother of the Year, nominee.

''*That the land won’t be liberated until it is saturated with the blood of its sons''. *

Ramadan - the holy month of killing and maiming and Mothers's Day - a time to sacrifice your sons by having their blood saturate the land.

Lovely, lovely folks.












						“Strong red blood” will achieve victory – PA Mother’s Day message | PMW Analysis
					

“That victory is not achieved through words and slogans but through strong red blood”




					palwatch.org
				




“Strong red blood” will achieve victory – PA Mother’s Day message​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 4, 2022
*What do ideal Palestinian mothers teach their children?*​
*“That victory is not achieved through words and slogans but through strong red blood”*​
*“That the land won’t be liberated until it is saturated with the blood of its sons”*​
Celebrating Palestinian Mother’s Day on March 21, the PA stressed its Martyrdom worship ideology that Palestinian Media Watch has documented. The PA reiterated that dying for “Palestine” – offering the “strong red blood… of its sons,” is good, desired, and even expected of Palestinians.

Greeting all Palestinian mothers, using one of its TV hosts as messenger, the PA highlighted specifically the mothers of “Martyrs.” “Martyr” (_Shahid_) is the exalted Islamic status the PA ascribes to any terrorist who died while attacking Israelis, and therefore the mothers of such terrorists are special to the PA. In fact, these mothers are “the most beautiful” and “the most exalted”!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Haaretz interviews Dr. Mahmoud Habbash, chief Sharia judge for the Palestinian Authority and top religious affairs advisor for Palestinian president Abbas.


He says, “Ramadan is a month of prayer and mercy. But Israel’s behavior as an occupying entity in Jerusalem and the West Bank is causing an escalation.....” 

Such a peaceful man, wanting to make sure that things don't escalate during Ramadan and certain that only Israel is fanning the flames of violence.

Haaretz, for some reason, didn't ask Dr. Habbash about other statements he has made that haven't been exactly moderate or peaceful.

Just last week, he said, "the Holy Land of Palestine will remain the property of the Palestinians only who alone have the right to it and those who have legitimacy. " Which means that Jews have no right to be there. 

MEMRI has lots more clips of Habbash which show that he is not exactly a moderate peace-seeker.

A year ago, he made up a quote by Theodor Herzl, claiming that he said about Palestinian Arabs: 'We must exterminate them. We must throw them in the deserts or in the jungles of Africa, and let wild beast devour them.'"

In 2019, he said that normalization with 'the enemies of the prophet Muhammad' is treason.

And before that he called for "jihad" to protect Al Aqsa Mosque. 

Sure sounds like incitement to me.









						PA's top Sharia judge incites violence for Ramadan - and then says Israel is violating its sanctity
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Celebrating Palestinian Mother’s Day on March 21, the PA stressed its Martyrdom worship ideology that Palestinian Media Watch has documented. The PA reiterated that dying for “Palestine” – offering the “strong red blood... of its sons,” is good, desired, and even expected of Palestinians.

Greeting all Palestinian mothers, using one of its TV hosts as messenger, the PA highlighted specifically the mothers of “Martyrs.” “Martyr” (_Shahid_) is the exalted Islamic status the PA ascribes to any terrorist who died while attacking Israelis, and therefore the mothers of such terrorists are special to the PA. In fact, these mothers are “the most beautiful” and “the most exalted”!

Why?


Because “they taught their children that victory is not achieved through words and slogans but through strong red blood”
and


Because “they taught their children that the land will not be liberated until it is saturated with the blood of its sons”
















> *Official PA TV host:* “Good evening. *The most sacred mothers are the Martyrs’ mothers*. They are the *most beautiful mothers because they taught their children that victory is not achieved through words and slogans but through strong red blood. They are the most exalted mothers because they taught their children that the land will not be liberated until it is saturated with the blood of its sons*. If mothers are a school for preparing the generations, then *the Martyrs’ mothers are a special school that brings up heroes who honor their nation and their homeland*... Mother’s Day greetings to all the mothers and to the Martyrs’ mothers. Wishing you all the best.”
> [Official PA TV, _Special Interview_, March 21, 2022



(full article online )









						“Strong red blood” will achieve victory – PA Mother’s Day message | PMW Analysis
					

“That victory is not achieved through words and slogans but through strong red blood”




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> *SUBTOPIC*: Intentional Deception.
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a half-truth.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mandate was never used as a transfer method for any territory.  And You should watch out for what you imply.
> 
> In the case of Israel, The Council endorsed the "right of Self-Determination."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> The Mandate was never used as a transfer method for any territory. And You should watch out for what you imply.


San Remo was not a land treaty. The Mandate had no authority to transfer territory. Resolution 181 was rejected.

Israel started the Nakba in 1947 with no land. What happened since then?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> San Remo was not a land treaty. The Mandate had no authority to transfer territory. Resolution 181 was rejected.
> 
> Israel started the Nakba in 1947 with no land. What happened since then?


Same lies.  Same Christian hatred of Jews.  Yawn.

UN wants to partition the land in 1947.  Jew's fault.
Jews accept it, Arabs reject it.  Jew's fault.

Arabs attack the Jews after the refusal for partition.
The Jews fault.

We do know all of your songs, forwards and backwards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Intentional Deception
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  I think you are correct. The policy they hold is " Islam is against all forms of religious, ethnic or sectarian extremism and bigotry." But here is the tension. They believe that the Arab Palestinian holds the "right" by all divine law. That anything that conflicts with this policy is illegal (no argument).
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> Well, they [Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and Islamic Resistance Members (IRM)] say a number of political themes.  They want to sound like real organized effort by some portion (not all) of the civil population with a cause.   The HoAP and IRM want to portray themselves as a only resisting the foreign Army on foreign territory (the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) and Civil Administration).
> 
> The HoAP and IRM are trying to give the impression that the fight the IDF to regain the legally established government taken over by an occupying power.  The HoAP want to put forth the concept that the IDF represent a disruptive civil order and stability that the Arab Palestinian built up and maintained.  The organized effort to disseminate false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive the International Community.   The HoAP and IRM want to present their organization amorally just under the teachings of the Islamic faith, but that to argue against HoAP and IRM violence.
> 
> Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and Islamic Resistance Members (IRM) want to pretend that what they do has the objective of national liberation and resistance movement. Its goal is to liberate Palestine.
> 
> And while the HoAP and IRM want to create the illusion that it is willing to negotiate for a fair and equitable peace that is so far from the truth that it is unworthy of any consideration.   When HoAP and IRM say "Palestine," the HoAP and IRM want the entirety of the territory which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south.  And they make it very clear that they are willing to continue the unconventional warfare effort until the Occupying Power (the Israelis) overthrown and the entirety of the territory is secured.
> 
> The key here is that to secure "Palestine" that not only dissolve the 'State of Israel,' but remove the Jewish National Home all together.  The whole of Palestine is a natural right, to both the Arab individual and general population of Arabs.   And this s a very good recruitment pitch.  That, plus the stipend (if captured or killed) makes many more valuable if captured (particularly).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Are settler colonialism and apartheid "religious?"


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Are settler colonialism and apartheid "religious?"


Idiotic question pulled out of thin air.

Grow up!!!!!

Colonialism and apartheid exist in Gaza and Areas A and B under Gaza and the PA.

It is all about the extremist religious people on the Islamic side who cannot see Jews as humans, much less as humans who have the right to sovereignty over their ancient homeland.

Grow up !!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Same lies.  Same Christian hatred of Jews.  Yawn.
> 
> UN wants to partition the land in 1947.  Jew's fault.
> Jews accept it, Arabs reject it.  Jew's fault.
> 
> We do know all of your songs, forwards and backwards.





Sixties Fan said:


> UN wants to partition the land in 1947. Jew's fault.
> Jews accept it, Arabs reject it. Jew's fault.


Interesting. Why did the Jews accept part of Palestine in 1947 when they received the whole pie three decades earlier? 

And since resolution 181 didn't happen, what did the Jews get?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Interesting. Why did the Jews accept part of Palestine in 1947 when they received the whole pie three decades earlier?
> 
> And since resolution 181 didn't happen, what did the Jews get?


You are a joke.

You know the history, just want to lie about it, change it, manipulate it.

Shove your resolution 181, and every other nonsense you think does not give the Jews the right to any part of the land.

HA!!!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Congressional Candidate Huwaida Arraf (MI-10) Protecting Children​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You are a joke.
> 
> You know the history, just want to lie about it, change it, manipulate it.
> 
> Shove your resolution 181, and every other nonsense you think does not give the Jews the right to any part of the land.
> 
> HA!!!!!!


The Jews came out of 1947 with nothing. What happened since then?

Nice duck though.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are a few things Michigan voters may want to know about their newest congressional candidate.

Huwaida Arraf is a lawyer and self-described Palestinian activist who co-founded the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), which, among other things, was probed by the FBI as part of a terrorism investigation between 2004 and 2006.

While ISM claims to be a “Palestinian-led movement committed to resisting the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land using nonviolent, direct-action methods and principles,” part of its mission statement, which has since been excised from its website, expressed support for the “Palestinian right to resist… via legitimate armed struggle.”

Similar to the Gaza Strip’s terrorist rulers Hamas, ISM and Arraf seem to have no problem with using volunteers as human shields – a fact ISM has even bragged about on its website.

In 2002, amid the height of the Second Intifada in which waves of Palestinian suicide bombings were launched against Israeli civilians, the ISM sent a number of ‘activists’ to protect terrorists who were holed up inside the Church of the Nativity, in the West Bank town of Bethlehem.

During the 39-day standoff, Arraf personally organized a mission to bring food and water to the terrorists inside the church.

In 2003, Tel Aviv’s popular seafront bar Mike’s Place was targeted by two British-born Muslims in a terror attack that killed three Israeli civilians and injured dozens more. The suicide bombers, who were operating under the guidance of Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, had arrived in Israel from Jordan via the Allenby Bridge and, just days before the attack, visited the ISM at its office in Gaza.

Shortly afterward, they joined the organization’s volunteers at a nearby memorial for ISM activist Rachel Corrie, who was accidentally crushed to death after she kneeled in front of an IDF bulldozer that was leveling the ground to expose terror tunnels used to store explosives. 

An official Israeli report stated the terrorists were “careful to establish their presence in Judea and Samaria [West Bank] by forging links with foreign left wing activists and members of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM).”

Thom Saffold, who co-founded the group with Arraf, later glibly summarized the deaths of volunteers working for ISM thus: 



> It’s possible they [the protesters] were not as disciplined as we would have liked. But we’re like a peace army. Generals send young men and women off to operations, and some die.”


In 2010, Arraf was an organizer and spokesperson for the Free Gaza Flotilla, which deliberately provoked a violent confrontation with the Israeli Navy when it attempted to breach the blockade of Gaza. The headline-garnering stunt was also arranged with the help of the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Aid (IHH), a Turkish group that has ties to Hamas and donated funds to the terrorist organization.

Speaking about the incident, Arraf, who was on the ship Challenger 1, admitted that she had once again used activists as human shields: 



> We tried to put our bodies in the way. We repeated that we’re on an American flag vessel.”


To be clear, then, Arraf and the group she founded have certainly not kept a low profile over the years with the numerous controversies she has been linked to having been reported on (see here, here and here).

Therefore, it was surprising to see the relatively muted response from international media outlets to Arraf’s announcement that she is running as a Democrat in Michigan’s 10th Congressional District in the hopes she will unseat incumbent Republican Rep. Lisa McClain.

Indeed, according to an analysis of data collated by HonestReporting, Arraf’s candidacy was mentioned in just 11 news stories at the time of this piece’s publication.

Arraf, who is a vocal supporter of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, even drew attention to her combative past while announcing her political campaign on Twitter:



> I have been beaten, shot at, imprisoned and hijacked at sea standing up to injustice on the global stage. I’m not afraid of a fight. Today, I’m announcing my campaign for Congress in Michigan’s 10th District.”


Why don’t most media publications think it was newsworthy that a person who holds such disturbing views and has such a checkered past could potentially become a US lawmaker?

One of the key pillars of a free press is its duty to inform and criticize.

It appears Michigan voters are not being told of these troublesome facts about the person who hopes to represent them in Washington’s corridors of power.









						Supporter of Palestinian Terrorism Against Israel Announces Run for Congress | Honest Reporting
					

There are a few things Michigan voters may want to know about their newest congressional candidate. Huwaida Arraf is a lawyer and self-described




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> And since resolution 181 didn't happen, what did the Jews get?



Israel.

What did the Palestinians get?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Israel.
> 
> What did the Palestinians get?


Can you document how that happened?

Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There are a few things Michigan voters may want to know about their newest congressional candidate.
> 
> Huwaida Arraf is a lawyer and self-described Palestinian activist who co-founded the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), which, among other things, was probed by the FBI as part of a terrorism investigation between 2004 and 2006.
> 
> While ISM claims to be a “Palestinian-led movement committed to resisting the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land using nonviolent, direct-action methods and principles,” part of its mission statement, which has since been excised from its website, expressed support for the “Palestinian right to resist… via legitimate armed struggle.”
> 
> Similar to the Gaza Strip’s terrorist rulers Hamas, ISM and Arraf seem to have no problem with using volunteers as human shields – a fact ISM has even bragged about on its website.
> 
> In 2002, amid the height of the Second Intifada in which waves of Palestinian suicide bombings were launched against Israeli civilians, the ISM sent a number of ‘activists’ to protect terrorists who were holed up inside the Church of the Nativity, in the West Bank town of Bethlehem.
> 
> During the 39-day standoff, Arraf personally organized a mission to bring food and water to the terrorists inside the church.
> 
> In 2003, Tel Aviv’s popular seafront bar Mike’s Place was targeted by two British-born Muslims in a terror attack that killed three Israeli civilians and injured dozens more. The suicide bombers, who were operating under the guidance of Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, had arrived in Israel from Jordan via the Allenby Bridge and, just days before the attack, visited the ISM at its office in Gaza.
> 
> Shortly afterward, they joined the organization’s volunteers at a nearby memorial for ISM activist Rachel Corrie, who was accidentally crushed to death after she kneeled in front of an IDF bulldozer that was leveling the ground to expose terror tunnels used to store explosives.
> 
> An official Israeli report stated the terrorists were “careful to establish their presence in Judea and Samaria [West Bank] by forging links with foreign left wing activists and members of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM).”
> 
> Thom Saffold, who co-founded the group with Arraf, later glibly summarized the deaths of volunteers working for ISM thus:
> 
> 
> In 2010, Arraf was an organizer and spokesperson for the Free Gaza Flotilla, which deliberately provoked a violent confrontation with the Israeli Navy when it attempted to breach the blockade of Gaza. The headline-garnering stunt was also arranged with the help of the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Aid (IHH), a Turkish group that has ties to Hamas and donated funds to the terrorist organization.
> 
> Speaking about the incident, Arraf, who was on the ship Challenger 1, admitted that she had once again used activists as human shields:
> 
> 
> To be clear, then, Arraf and the group she founded have certainly not kept a low profile over the years with the numerous controversies she has been linked to having been reported on (see here, here and here).
> 
> Therefore, it was surprising to see the relatively muted response from international media outlets to Arraf’s announcement that she is running as a Democrat in Michigan’s 10th Congressional District in the hopes she will unseat incumbent Republican Rep. Lisa McClain.
> 
> Indeed, according to an analysis of data collated by HonestReporting, Arraf’s candidacy was mentioned in just 11 news stories at the time of this piece’s publication.
> 
> Arraf, who is a vocal supporter of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, even drew attention to her combative past while announcing her political campaign on Twitter:
> 
> 
> Why don’t most media publications think it was newsworthy that a person who holds such disturbing views and has such a checkered past could potentially become a US lawmaker?
> 
> One of the key pillars of a free press is its duty to inform and criticize.
> 
> It appears Michigan voters are not being told of these troublesome facts about the person who hopes to represent them in Washington’s corridors of power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporter of Palestinian Terrorism Against Israel Announces Run for Congress | Honest Reporting
> 
> 
> There are a few things Michigan voters may want to know about their newest congressional candidate. Huwaida Arraf is a lawyer and self-described
> 
> 
> 
> 
> honestreporting.com



When you are losing the debate, call names.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Can you document how that happened?
> 
> Of course not.



Losers lose.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> When you are losing the debate, call names.


Cutting and pasting youtube videos and silly emoticons isn't a debate.


----------



## Hollie

In large part, the answer is yes. 

It can't be clearer that whatever payments or loans are made to the Islamic terrorists, there should be an expectation that those gestures will be rewarded with the PA continuing to incite their sociopaths to kill Israelis. 










						Think Tank Asks – ‘Is Govt. Financing Terrorism by Transferring Funds to PA?’
					

After months of silence, the Ministry of Finance sent a “cryptic response."




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Is the Israeli government financing terrorism against its own citizens? Did Minister of Defense Benny Gantz break the law when he transferred “advance payments” and “loans” to the Palestinian Authority (PA) earlier this year?

These were some of the questions posed to Gantz and Minister of Finance Avigdor Liberman by the Litigation Department of the Kohelet Policy Forum two months ago, which received a response it termed as “worrying.”


----------



## Hollie

Just give them more money and everything will be alright. 



Fatah Secretary In Jenin Ata Abu Rumeileh Praises Bnei Brak Terror Attack: A Courageous Operation Carried Out By A Member Of Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades Who Killed Zionists To Avenge Our Pure Martyrs​









						Fatah Secretary In Jenin Ata Abu Rumeileh Praises Bnei Brak Terror Attack: A Courageous Operation Carried Out By A Member Of Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades Who Killed Zionists To Avenge Our Pure Martyrs
					

In a March 30, 2022 interview that aired on Alghad TV (Egypt/UAE), Fatah's Secretary in Jenin, Ata Abu Rumeileh, praised...




					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

Presently non-breathing status.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Apartheid
SUBTOPIC:  Recent Violence
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

I think we have to avoid falling into becoming an "Electronic Repeater" like P F Tinmore.  It serves no real purpose to constantly see P F Tinmore repeat other peoples commentary unless is is in defense of his stated comment.  Let's not become a bandwidth hog like Tinmore.

*(COMMENT and QUESTION)*

I'm not sure who the White House is supporting.  But they certainly do NOT appear to me as acting like an ally to Israel.  I think it is time for the Bidden Administration to start assembling a team of better advisors. 

I am confused about what has recently happened in Israel.  I was quite happy to see the article "*Arab Israeli leaders have roundly denounced the terror attack March 27 in Hadera that killed two police officers*."

But what is really happening.  Who is the catalyst for the violence?






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> I am confused about what has recently happened in Israel.  I was quite happy to see the article "*Arab Israeli leaders have roundly denounced the terror attack March 27 in Hadera that killed two police officers*."
> 
> But what is really happening.  Who is the catalyst for the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R



Short term catalyst is the Ramadan...long term the Abraham Accords.

There's this recent "prophecy" going viral in Pal-Arab media,
about the year 2022 being the end of Israel.

It's an industry, they're loosing market,
and attention in the Arab world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Aman, a Palestinian anti-corruption NGO, issued its annual report on corruption in the Palestinian Authority last week. 

Its findings are exactly what you would expect - and so is the lack of news coverage.

They included:

-Passing of laws "to reinforce domination of the President’s office over public institutions and in particular the regulatory institutions. "

- Appointments to diplomatic, sharia and senior management in public institutions to Fatah loyalists or relatives of those in power.

- Firing or otherwise punishing PA employees who are not considered loyal enough to the government.

- Continued opacity in budgeting and spending, creating an atmosphere ripe for stealing government funds.

- The PA security services are used for political purposes.

Ironically, the head of the official Palestinian Anti-Corruption Commission was elected to chair the next session of the Conference of the States Parties to the Arab Convention against Corruption last month.

The PA is especially harsh to employees who are whistleblowers. Even though "Palestine" signs every international convention it can find, including against corruption and protecting whistleblowers, those who point out actual corruption get fired or even prosecuted.

Hamas, of course, is no better. Today there was an article about how massive amounts of aid sent to Gaza are disappearing, with Hamas presumably redirecting the aid to their own people or those it favors. One person reported seeing food that was labeled "a gift from the Italian people to Gaza" at a store warehouse in Nuseirat where it was going to be sold.

Outside The New Arab, I cannot find a single English-language news report of the Aman anti-corruption report. The region is filled with reporters yet they somehow manage to avoid any story that shows that the Palestinian Authority is filled with cronyism, nepotism and corruption, and that president Abbas is in every respect a dictator.

Because it doesn't fit the narrative of "evil Israel, righteous Palestinians," and that is the only story the media is willing to report.










						New report on Palestinian corruption being ignored, again, because there is no anti-Israel angle
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A time for introspection.  Yeah, sure ]


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

“Our war is with the Jews,” says Fatah official | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah official: Murderer of 5 in Bnei Brak was “heroic”




					palwatch.org
				



“Our war is with the Jews,” says Fatah official​Itamar Marcus  | Apr 5, 2022

*Fatah wants children to join terror:*​
* “When you see a 15-year-old with a rock or a knife… know that this cause continues in the blood of our people”*​
*Fatah official: Murderer of 5 in Bnei Brak was “heroic”*​
*Fatah official vowed to continue terror: “Struggle with all means” ”*​








This is what results from a belligerent, unreformed, quasi religious ideology which has spent 1,400 years holding on to seething hatreds of jews (and Christians).


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Intentional Deception.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Another half truth.  And quit your whining...



P F Tinmore said:


> San Remo was not a land treaty. The Mandate had no authority to transfer territory. Resolution 181 was rejected.
> 
> Israel started the Nakba in 1947 with no land. What happened since then?


*(COMMENT)*

General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947) was not a binding resolution.
General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947) was a recommendation on future actions.
General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947) did not require Arab Palestinian approval.  (There rejection was no impediment to the Jewish participation.)
General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947) was not a territorial land grant or transfer document.
The Jewish People exercised their Right of Self-Determination.
The Arab Palestinians did not exercise their Right of Self-Determination.

The Arab Palestinians, mostly through inaction, but made poor decisions, complain today about what they did not get.  It is impossible to write a thumbnail history that would do the answer to your question justice.   (What happened since then?)





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ A time for introspection.  Yeah, sure ]


Cool.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Jewish People exercised their Right of Self-Determination.


Do you have a link for this that is not from Israel?


----------



## Hollie

Israel js apparently deciding it must act to the increase in Islamic terrorist attacks, more attacks than usual, over the last several weeks. Acts of Islamic terrorism seem to be more prevalent leading up to and during the Islamic ''holy month''.












						Israeli Forces Arrest Islamic Jihad Terrorist in Jenin
					

For the second time in a week, Israeli Special Forces entered the Jenin refugee camp in broad daylight and arrested a senior Islamic Jihad terrorist.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




For the second time in a week, Israeli Special Forces entered the Jenin refugee camp in broad daylight and arrested a senior Islamic Jihad terrorist.

Large IDF forces entered the Jenin refugee camp, under the Palestinian Authority’s rule, on Wednesday and arrested Aboud a-Saadi, a key Islamic Jihad operative. Reports from Arab sources indicate that the Israeli forces were met with gunfire and explosive charges.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel js apparently deciding it must act to the increase in Islamic terrorist attacks, more attacks than usual, over the last several weeks. Acts of Islamic terrorism seem to be more prevalent leading up to and during the Islamic ''holy month''.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Forces Arrest Islamic Jihad Terrorist in Jenin
> 
> 
> For the second time in a week, Israeli Special Forces entered the Jenin refugee camp in broad daylight and arrested a senior Islamic Jihad terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jewishpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the second time in a week, Israeli Special Forces entered the Jenin refugee camp in broad daylight and arrested a senior Islamic Jihad terrorist.
> 
> Large IDF forces entered the Jenin refugee camp, under the Palestinian Authority’s rule, on Wednesday and arrested Aboud a-Saadi, a key Islamic Jihad operative. Reports from Arab sources indicate that the Israeli forces were met with gunfire and explosive charges.





Hollie said:


> Reports from Arab sources indicate that the Israeli forces were met with gunfire and explosive charges.


Cool, keep those crooks out.


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## P F Tinmore

East Jerusalem: Sharing our house with Israeli settlers in Sheikh Jarrah​


----------



## Hollie

Characteristics and implications aren't difficult to address.

Islamism carries with it characteristics that haven't changed in 1,400 years. Yes, its blunt, but Israel is dealing with an angry, violent ideology that has changed little since it's invention. This is an ideology that causes the pals to willingly use their sons and daughters as war material.


As to implications, the assumption is that Israelis need to be on a defensive footing to protect themselves and an offensive footing to intercept gee-had attacks before they can hapoen. 











						The Current Terror Wave in Israel: Characteristics and Implications
					

The recent terror wave in large Israeli cities differs from previous terror surges: The attacks were all perpetrated within pre-1967 Israel, undermining the sense of security of many Israelis who want




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The recent terror wave of shootings and stabbings in the large Israeli cities of Be’er Sheva, Hadera, and Bnei Brak shows several significant characteristics that distinguish it from previous terror surges since the one in 2015‒16 (known as the “Knives Intifada”). These new characteristics surprised the Israeli government, security organizations, and the public, even though there were expectations of a spike in terror on the eve of Islam’s holy month of Ramadan. Indeed, the spate of attacks exposed misperceptions and made shockingly clear that the “rules of the game” the other side was believed to be upholding are no longer in effect.


----------



## RoccoR

.
RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Rights
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You have a right to $100.  But you have to work for it.  
I have $100.  But your right does not require me to give you the money.

The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination."  The central questions becomes:   

◈    Is the "Right of Self-Determination" come with it an entitlement to statehood?​​◈    Under what reasoning do the Arab Palestinians hold that gives them an automatic Right to Self-Determination?​


P F Tinmore said:


> Do you have a link for this that is not from Israel?


*(BACKDROP)*

In early to mid 1949, the UN brokered four Armistice Agreements.  The agreements were between Israel, and the adjacent Arab League States that , and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.  The Arab Palestinians (_Arab Higher Committee_) was not offered territorial leadership by the Arab League forces, and rejected the offer of leadership in the establishment of a self-governing institution by the UN Palestine Commission.

*(COMMENT)*

In a sense, the Arab Palestinians DID exercise their self-determination; however unproductive it has proven to be over the last three-quarters of a century.

*(LINKS)*

I don't need any links.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> .
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Rights
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have a right to $100.  But you have to work for it.
> I have $100.  But your right does not require me to give you the money.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination."  The central questions becomes:
> 
> ◈    Is the "Right of Self-Determination" come with it an entitlement to statehood?​​◈    Under what reasoning do the Arab Palestinians hold that gives them an automatic Right to Self-Determination?​
> 
> *(BACKDROP)*
> 
> In early to mid 1949, the UN brokered four Armistice Agreements.  The agreements were between Israel, and the adjacent Arab League States that , and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.  The Arab Palestinians (_Arab Higher Committee_) was not offered territorial leadership by the Arab League forces, and rejected the offer of leadership in the establishment of a self-governing institution by the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a sense, the Arab Palestinians DID exercise their self-determination; however unproductive it has proven to be over the last three-quarters of a century.
> 
> *(LINKS)*
> 
> I don't need any links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Oasis of Dialogue: U.S. Edition - Youth for Palestine​


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> .
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> SUBTOPIC: Rights
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have a right to $100.  But you have to work for it.
> I have $100.  But your right does not require me to give you the money.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Determination."  The central questions becomes:
> 
> ◈    Is the "Right of Self-Determination" come with it an entitlement to statehood?​​◈    Under what reasoning do the Arab Palestinians hold that gives them an automatic Right to Self-Determination?​
> 
> *(BACKDROP)*
> 
> In early to mid 1949, the UN brokered four Armistice Agreements.  The agreements were between Israel, and the adjacent Arab League States that , and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.  The Arab Palestinians (_Arab Higher Committee_) was not offered territorial leadership by the Arab League forces, and rejected the offer of leadership in the establishment of a self-governing institution by the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In a sense, the Arab Palestinians DID exercise their self-determination; however unproductive it has proven to be over the last three-quarters of a century.
> 
> *(LINKS)*
> 
> I don't need any links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Agree, Rocco. My opinion is that the Pal agenda has always been about fulfilling the goal of the Hamas Charter. 

Arafat in a speech on May 10, 1994 in a Johannesburg mosque declared that the Oslo Accords were a modern version of an agreement between the islamic "prophet" and Koraish_._





__





						Arafat's Johannesburg Speech - IRIS
					

Excerpts from a speech by Yasser Arafat on May 10, 1994, in a mosque in Johannesburg, South Africa. He called for a Jihad to liberate Jerusalem and strongly implied that his agreement with Israel could be abrogated at any time.




					iris.org.il
				



"I have to speak frankly, I can’t do it alone without the support of the Islamic nation. I can’t do it alone. No, you have to come and to fight and to start the Jihad to liberate Jerusalem, your first shrine."

It seems pretty clear that Arafat was never interested in peace but planning to fulfill the writ of his religious ideology. 

This has been the stated goal "way back when", on September 1, 1967 at the Khartoum Summit, attended by eight Arab heads of state who called for continued belligerency against Israel and issued the "three nos" statement as you identified.... way back when. 

That goal has been, and still is, the driving force for Abbas and Hamas. The near daily incitement by Fatah urging the faithful to attack and kill Israeli speaks with the utmost clarity about the goals of the Pals.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Prominent Palestinian Christian cleric calls for violence to defend Jerusalem from Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

While the United Nation’s anti-Israel bias is well documented, last year, the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) went even further. It chose to “establish an ongoing, independent, international commission of inquiry to investigate” only one country in the world: Israel. This unprecedented committee is now a permanent UN fixture with a budget of US $ 4,151,800 for the year of 2022 alone, that will report to the UN twice every year on Israel's alleged human rights violations.

To expose the anti-Israel bias of the commission, Palestinian Media Watch immediately went into action. Working in cooperation with Human Rights Voices, PMW submitted 11,687 unique submissions - content from PMW’s website - to the so-called “Commission of Inquiry."

Under its own regulations, the commission, which invited these submissions, must review all PMW’s evidence and failure to do so will be additional proof of the one-sided, biased nature of the commission. 

In the submissions, PMW gave critical evidence demonstrating how the PA indoctrinates Palestinian children to hate, kill, and seek Martyrdom-death, promotes terror, honors mass murderers of children, operates an institutionalized and systematic policy of paying huge financial rewards to terror, promotes vile Antisemitism, and much more. 

This commission, whose sole purpose is to demonize Israel, is being boycotted and ignored completely by the Israeli government and some NGOs. Nonetheless, PMW wants to be able to expose and undermine the commission by supplying it with all the critical evidence proving the PA is the terror supporter and human rights violator, and not Israel. However, not wanting to give it any legitimacy and to ensure that the commission will not use PMW’s submissions as a fig leaf for its anti-Israel designs, every one of PMW’s submissions included this disclaimer: “This submission in itself should not be understood as an endorsement of the inquiry or its mandate.”

In our submissions, PMW referred to each of the five subjects the commission is meant to consider, namely:

(full article online)









						PMW makes 11,687 submissions to the biased UN Human Rights Council Commission of Inquiry | PMW Analysis
					

To expose the anti-Israel bias of the commission, Palestinian Media Watch immediately went into action. Working in cooperation with Human Rights Voices, PMW submitted 11,687 unique submissions - content from PMW’s website - to the so-called “Commission of Inquiry."




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

It's just a waking nightmare. UNRWA oversees 59 "temporary" refugee facilities housing the five million descendants of the Arabs who were shoved aside as the Arab armies crossed the frontier to what's now Israel during the Arab-Israeli war. United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East - Academic Kids

While once upon a time, it may have been a charitable organization, UNRWA is now little more than a front group that begs for welfare money on behalf of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. UNRWA has become a cash cow used by the pally terrorist franchises to arm and train pally terrorust groups and to indoctrinate children.











						Palestinian School Curriculum: Peaceful Coexistence or Incitement?
					

Black and white and read all over in Palestinian schools




					www.jewishpress.com
				




The school curriculum of the Palestinian Authority is consistent with the anti-“infidel” precepts of Islam, aimed to eliminate the “infidel” entity in the abode of Islam and bring the “infidel” to submission.

The school curriculum of the Palestinian Authority is the most reliable expression of the deeply-rooted Palestinian vision to establish an Arab entity from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean, by eliminating the “infidel” Jewish sovereignty.

The school curriculum of the Palestinian Authority is a most authentic reflection of the state of mind of the Palestinian Authority, in general, and its view of the Jewish State, in particular.


----------



## Hollie

Walls, barriers and checkpoints have been effective at suppressing the Islamic terrorist gee-had. When dealing with a virulently hostile, cult-like group which has a priority that includes mass murder / suicide, perhaps further isolating them is a proper response. 




Terror attacks bring work on separation fence back to Israeli agenda


April 7, 2022
The wave of terrorist attacks in Israel over the past two weeks has brought the failures of the West Bank separation fence back into public debate. The Palestinian assailant who killed five people March 29 in Bnei Brak drove into Israel through an unmonitored agricultural gate in the fence, bringing with him an automatic weapon which he used in his attack


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: Does the Quran teach you to love or hate Israelis?​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: What would you do if you were Israel with Gaza rockets?​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: Is it your right to throw stones?​


----------



## Hollie

Some really excellent (and obvious points) in the linked article. It's true that in a great many postings by Hamas, Fatah and other islamic terrorist groups wherein they "celebrate" horrifying gee-had attacks aimed at Israelis, these  groups are clear to assign the Islamic identity of the attackers. They convey to the world their motivations, what they believe and seek and clearly emphasize their politico-religious motivations.













						Doctrine, not despair: This breeds Palestinian terrorism
					

To view Palestinian terror entirely through an economics lens is essentially a Marxist approach.




					www.google.com
				




Poverty breeds terrorism, we are told in authoritative tones, and hence there is no choice but to ease up on restrictions to avoid fostering further Palestinian anger and resentment.

As simple and concise as this neat little theory may sound, there is one pesky problem with it: it is categorically and demonstrably false.

To begin with, consider the fact that according to the World Bank, there are approximately 700 million people on the planet living in what is described as “extreme poverty,” which is defined as earning less than $1.90 a day. That is nearly 10% of the world’s population.

In America alone, according to the US Census Bureau, the official poverty rate in 2020 was 11.4%, meaning there were 37.2 million Americans officially deemed to be poor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dialogue with Rula Jebreal. About oppressors, gender equality, new book and happiness.​


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic terrorist attack and a reason for Hamas to hand out candy.









__





						Tel Aviv Shooting a 'Terrorist Attack,' Israel Says As Hamas Celebrates
					





					www.msn.com
				




Shots were fired in an area with restaurants and bars *on Dizengoff Street* in the central part of the city, the Associated Press reported. Authorities described the incident as a "terrorist attack," *the report added.*

Islamic Palestinian militant group Hamas has not claimed responsibility for the attack, but senior Hamas official Mushir al-Masri said that "resistance operations are a natural response to Israel's crimes against the Palestinian people," according to The Times of Israel, which added that Hamas officials celebrated the attack and that masked men in Ramallah were seen handing out candy after the incident, a common act of celebration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Another Islamic terrorist attack and a reason for Hamas to hand out candy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tel Aviv Shooting a 'Terrorist Attack,' Israel Says As Hamas Celebrates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shots were fired in an area with restaurants and bars *on Dizengoff Street* in the central part of the city, the Associated Press reported. Authorities described the incident as a "terrorist attack," *the report added.*
> 
> Islamic Palestinian militant group Hamas has not claimed responsibility for the attack, but senior Hamas official Mushir al-Masri said that "resistance operations are a natural response to Israel's crimes against the Palestinian people," according to The Times of Israel, which added that Hamas officials celebrated the attack and that masked men in Ramallah were seen handing out candy after the incident, a common act of celebration.





Hollie said:


> Masri said that "resistance operations are a natural response to Israel's crimes against the Palestinian people,"


----------



## Hollie

At you might expect, the pally Islamic terrorist franchises are falling over themselves praising the Israeli gee-had attack. This is predictable as the background to this latest attack is the constant incitement by the pal terrorists against Jews and Israel. 












						Palestinian terror groups praise ‘heroic’ Tel Aviv attack, but don’t claim credit
					

No Palestinian faction takes responsibility for shooting spree that left 2 dead, wounded at least 10; Hamas says 'resistance' against Israel is 'continuing and escalating'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Palestinian terror groups celebrated an apparent terror attack in Tel Aviv on Thursday night, but none of them took responsibility for the shooting spree that left two dead and others fighting for their lives.

The Hamas terror group called the attack a “heroic operation” and vowed that “resistance” against Israel “is continuing and escalating.”


----------



## Ropey

Your browser is not able to display this video.




Ramadan in Israel... just means more "Palestinians" acting like Arab terrorists.

Wait! That's what they are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> At you might expect, the pally Islamic terrorist franchises are falling over themselves praising the Israeli gee-had attack. This is predictable as the background to this latest attack is the constant incitement by the pal terrorists against Jews and Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terror groups praise ‘heroic’ Tel Aviv attack, but don’t claim credit
> 
> 
> No Palestinian faction takes responsibility for shooting spree that left 2 dead, wounded at least 10; Hamas says 'resistance' against Israel is 'continuing and escalating'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian terror groups celebrated an apparent terror attack in Tel Aviv on Thursday night, but none of them took responsibility for the shooting spree that left two dead and others fighting for their lives.
> 
> The Hamas terror group called the attack a “heroic operation” and vowed that “resistance” against Israel “is continuing and escalating.”


Israel needs to stop its war.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic holy month of killing and maiming ended abruptly for the pally gee-had warrior who killed and injured Israelis. The pally ''holiday'' seems to be viewed as an excuse to let out their inner 7th century sociopath. 

Lovely folks with a lovely ''religion''. 











						Israeli forces hunt down and kill Palestinian sought over deadly attack on Tel Aviv bar
					

Officials say the man with no clear affiliation to any terror group entered Israel illegally from the occupied West Bank before shooting into the crowded bar, killing 2.




					www.cbsnews.com
				




_Jerusalem_ — Israeli security forces early Friday hunted down and killed a Palestinian man who had opened fire into a crowded bar in central Tel Aviv, killing two and wounding over 10 in an attack that caused scenes of mass panic in the heart of the bustling city. It was the fourth deadly attack in Israel by Palestinians in three weeks, and came at a time of heightened tensions around the start of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: War Ownership
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF*:  
.....◈    There is NO paradoxical "cause and continuation" (cNc) of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
.....◈    There is NO stalemate in the "decades-long" Israeli-Paestinian Conflict.
.....◈    There is NO question on the "Ownership" of the Conflict.
.....◈    The Arab Palestinians are not peers with the Israelis.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel needs to stop its war.


*(COMMENT)*
It is NOT Israels war*!  *

There is no Paradox to the "cause and continuation" of the conflict.  The UN Yearbook 1947-1948 discloses this observation.  While anyone can write an expose', the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica, on the "cause," the continuation of the conflict rests clearly on the shoulders of the Arab Palestinians.



​There is no "stalemate" in the conflict.  The Arab Palestinian Leadership makes it abundantly clear, the scope and nature of the conflict.  No Arab Palestinian need even ask this question of ownership and continuation.
​






​The Arab Palestinians are NOT a peer group to the Israelis.  The Arab Palestinians have not once, established a sovereignty in peace since 1948 _(in fact, I cannot find that the Arab Palestinians have ever had sovereignty over anything other than Area "A"_).  The Arab Palestinians present a threat to peace and make that an unambiguous political position:

◈ The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.​​◈ The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.​​◈ It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.​​◈ The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.​​◈ The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.​​◈ The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.​​◈ The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
The post 1967 Six-Day War demarcations for the West Bank and Jerusalem (as adjusted) were established in the 1994 Treaty with Jordan.  For political purposes, the Jordanians ended their part in the 1948 war.

Hardly a week goes by that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) do not make some kind of threat, incite further hatred, or engage in violence; all violations of the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.  While the HoAP claim to be the victim, they actually are the school yard bully that starts a fight and then runs behind the skirts of the UN and International Media when they get slapped.






_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: War Ownership
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:
> .....◈    There is NO paradoxical "cause and continuation" (cNc) of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
> .....◈    There is NO stalemate in the "decades-long" Israeli-Paestinian Conflict.
> .....◈    There is NO question on the "Ownership" of the Conflict.
> .....◈    The Arab Palestinians are not peers with the Israelis.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> It is NOT Israels war*!  *
> 
> There is no Paradox to the "cause and continuation" of the conflict.  The UN Yearbook 1947-1948 discloses this observation.  While anyone can write an expose', the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica, on the "cause," the continuation of the conflict rests clearly on the shoulders of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> View attachment 627676​There is no "stalemate" in the conflict.  The Arab Palestinian Leadership makes it abundantly clear, the scope and nature of the conflict.  No Arab Palestinian need even ask this question of ownership and continuation.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 627678
> View attachment 627679
> ​The Arab Palestinians are NOT a peer group to the Israelis.  The Arab Palestinians have not once, established a sovereignty in peace since 1948 _(in fact, I cannot find that the Arab Palestinians have ever had sovereignty over anything other than Area "A"_).  The Arab Palestinians present a threat to peace and make that an unambiguous political position:
> 
> ◈ The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.​​◈ The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.​​◈ It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.​​◈ The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.​​◈ The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.​​◈ The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.​​◈ The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> The post 1967 Six-Day War demarcations for the West Bank and Jerusalem (as adjusted) were established in the 1994 Treaty with Jordan.  For political purposes, the Jordanians ended their part in the 1948 war.
> 
> Hardly a week goes by that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) do not make some kind of threat, incite further hatred, or engage in violence; all violations of the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.  While the HoAP claim to be the victim, they actually are the school yard bully that starts a fight and then runs behind the skirts of the UN and International Media when they get slapped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> ◈ The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.





RoccoR said:


> ◈ The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.



It is true that the UN abandoned that stupid plan. However, there are still lies floating around about the UN creating Israel.

The Zionists used that resolution to start the Nakba in December of 1947. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes before any Arab army entered Palestine. That attack continues to today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

TODAY THEY TOOK MY SON (Short Film)​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It is true that the UN abandoned that stupid plan. However, there are still lies floating around about the UN creating Israel.
> 
> The Zionists used that resolution to start the Nakba in December of 1947. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes before any Arab army entered Palestine. That attack continues to today.


Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

After two years of tenuous relations with Israel, Jordan's King Abdullah seems to be warming to strengthening relations with Israel. 

In that part of the world, dialogue and trade relations make for a bit more calm, especially considering Jordan is saddled with a Pal problem. 











						Israel no longer alone in fight against Iran and Palestinian terrorism
					

REGIONAL AFFAIRS: Israel faces a dual threat, but for the first time, has Middle East allies in that fight.




					www.google.com
				




President Isaac Herzog walked into history this week as he strode, to the sound of honor guard bugles, down the red carpet laid out across Al Husseiniya Palace, in Amman, to meet King Abdullah II


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not.


Though May 15, 1948, became the official day for commemorating the Nakba, armed Zionist groups had launched the process of displacement of Palestinians much earlier. In fact, by May 15, half of the total number of Palestinian refugees had already been forcefully expelled from their country.









						The Nakba did not start or end in 1948
					

Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Though May 15, 1948, became the official day for commemorating the Nakba, armed Zionist groups had launched the process of displacement of Palestinians much earlier. In fact, by May 15, half of the total number of Palestinian refugees had already been forcefully expelled from their country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nakba did not start or end in 1948
> 
> 
> Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


A self-titled "Activist" site.


----------



## Hollie

I think there is some clarification needed with regard to claims of attacks by islamic terrorist “lone wolves”.  The recent gee-had attacks were committed by a single individual but were a result of a program of indoctrination that began during childhood. It's not as though these sociopaths suddenly and inexplicably chose to become psychotic killers with no external influences or overarching ideology prompting their actions.

Additionally, the weapons used by the attacker didnt appear by magic. Their gee-had begins at birth and they're groomed through their pre-teen years to believe that their death by way of mass murder / suicide in the act of killing Jews will yield carnal rewards.  




			https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/lone-wolves-are-part-of-a-murderous-mental-pack/


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Though May 15, 1948, became the official day for commemorating the Nakba, armed Zionist groups had launched the process of displacement of Palestinians much earlier. In fact, by May 15, half of the total number of Palestinian refugees had already been forcefully expelled from their country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nakba did not start or end in 1948
> 
> 
> Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



No kidding. Pally whining is never ending.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_SUBTOPIC_: War Ownership
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Those statements (_supra_) were quotes from the early JAN 1948 Response to the invitation to join the UN Palestine Commission in the development of self-governing institutions.  It was the "rejection" the Arab Palestinians made.



P F Tinmore said:


> It is true that the UN abandoned that stupid plan. However, there are still lies floating around about the UN creating Israel.
> 
> The Zionists used that resolution to start the Nakba in December of 1947. About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes before any Arab army entered Palestine. That attack continues to today.


*(COMMENT)*

As far as the sound bite "Nakba" is concerned, both sides say the side initiated the conflict.  This was tantamount to "_conflict for territorial control between opposing groups with the same nationality_".

It is important for the Arab Palestinians to believe that the Israelis seized the territory (_an attack_).  It makes it artificially appear that the Arab Palestinians were the victims. And the continued accusations ("_That attack continues to today._") caused further alterations in the demarcations over time.  The Arab Palestinians want the historical record of the territory to reflect the Jewish People were the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were the victims that lost sovereign territory.

While the hands of the Israeli have not been perfectly clean over the last 100 years, since the Palestine Order in Council, the total lack of cooperation, by the Arab Palestinian, and the violence that invariably trailed their path through this interminable turmoil directly lead to the unbroken century of hostile activity.  When the Hashemite Kingdom abandoned its holdings west of the Jordan River (1988), the Arab Palestinians formed a more complex network to amplify their level of violence.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _SUBTOPIC_: War Ownership
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Those statements (_supra_) were quotes from the early JAN 1948 Response to the invitation to join the UN Palestine Commission in the development of self-governing institutions.  It was the "rejection" the Arab Palestinians made.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As far as the sound bite "Nakba" is concerned, both sides say the side initiated the conflict.  This was tantamount to "_conflict for territorial control between opposing groups with the same nationality_".
> 
> It is important for the Arab Palestinians to believe that the Israelis seized the territory (_an attack_).  It makes it artificially appear that the Arab Palestinians were the victims. And the continued accusations ("_That attack continues to today._") caused further alterations in the demarcations over time.  The Arab Palestinians want the historical record of the territory to reflect the Jewish People were the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were the victims that lost sovereign territory.
> 
> While the hands of the Israeli have not been perfectly clean over the last 100 years, since the Palestine Order in Council, the total lack of cooperation, by the Arab Palestinian, and the violence that invariably trailed their path through this interminable turmoil directly lead to the unbroken century of hostile activity.  When the Hashemite Kingdom abandoned its holdings west of the Jordan River (1988), the Arab Palestinians formed a more complex network to amplify their level of violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R





RoccoR said:


> This was tantamount to "_conflict for territorial control between opposing groups with the same nationality_".


No it wasn't. It was an attack on the natives by a settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

I'm afraid the usual strategy of watching its citizens being killed and then responding with a sound bite is being employed by Israel. It's a formula that doesn't work. 











						Israeli PM vows to 'fight terrorism with a heavy hand' after Palestinian gunman attack
					

Israel's premier, Naftali Bennett, pledges to "fight terrorism with a heavy hand" to curb surging violence, after the latest deadly attack in Tel Aviv saw a Palestinian gunman kill two men in a busy bar.




					news.yahoo.com
				




Israel's premier, Naftali Bennett, pledges to "fight terrorism with a heavy hand" to curb surging violence, after the latest deadly attack in Tel Aviv saw a Palestinian gunman kill two men in a busy bar.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_SUBTOPIC_: War Ownership
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You do not understand what the term "settler-colonial project" meant in the very late 19th Century and early 20th Century.  We've discussed this before.  The Covenants related to anti-colonialism do not only materialize until the late 20th Century. 



P F Tinmore said:


> No it wasn't. It was an attack on the natives by a settler colonial project.


*(COMMENT)*

And, as I said, the Arab Palestinians must rewrite history to make themselves out to be the victim.

It is sometimes a simple substitution.  The "natives" were actually the inhabitants of the Occupied Enemy Territory under the Administration (EOTA) British government.  By 1920, the EOTA was replaced by a civil administration.  The Allied Powers to which the territory became the focus of the Palestine Order in Council on that territory relinquished to the Allied Powers.

No matter what you have convinced yourself to believe (*and how I know you like to use the term "illegal"*) the Mandate Authority operated inside the customary law at the time. The actions taken by the Mandate Authority were sanctioned by the Allied Powers with the appropriate oversight by the League of Nations.  

Included in the Mandate from the Allied Powers were the directives to:

.....◈. establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
.....◈. facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage
.....◈. development of selfgoverning institutions

*IF* you want to call it "an attack on the natives by a settler-colonial project" *THEN* so be it.  But that is the intentional misrepresentation of the facts.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It is sometimes a simple substitution. The "natives" were actually the inhabitants of the Occupied Enemy Territory under the Administration (EOTA) British government. By 1920, the EOTA was replaced by a civil administration.


Does that mean that the natives became different people?


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

Some anti gee-had operations underway by the IDF. With the recent Islamic terrorist attacks being an indication of more excitable Islamic terrorist franchises, it's time to use some preventative medicine for the gee-had disease. 












						One dead in Israel army raid on Palestinian refugee camp: officials
					

Israeli security forces shot dead a Palestinian on Saturday in the West Bank refugee camp of Jenin, home of the gunman behind a recent deadly Tel Aviv attack, the Palestinian health ministry said.




					www.france24.com
				




Israeli security forces shot dead a Palestinian on Saturday in the West Bank refugee camp of Jenin, home of the gunman behind a recent deadly Tel Aviv attack, the Palestinian health ministry said.


The Israeli army told AFP a military operation was ongoing in the Jenin camp, a stronghold of Palestinian armed factions in the north of the occupied West Bank.
The Palestinian health ministry said five others were wounded in Jenin by Israeli gunfire.
Saturday's raid comes a day after Israel said it had killed Raad Hazem, 28, the alleged gunman who went on a shooting spree Thursday in a popular nightlife district of Tel Aviv, killing three Israelis and wounding more than a dozen others.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Does that mean that the natives became different people?


No. Arabs occupying Turkish territory were still occupiers.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_SUBTOPIC_: 
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Comment of Posting #22218 (*supra*) is a "Red Herring" intended to mislead the intent of the commentary.

*(EXTENDING an UNDERSTANDING)*
​


			
				Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *enemy, enemy character* The term ‘enemy’, connoting an adversary in war, is so far a
> 
> term of international law that it is employed incidentally in the U.N. Charter: arts. 77 and 107. It applies principally to a State. But in prize law, and equally in municipal law in regard to deprivation of liberty on grounds of public safety and to the repression of trade or intercourse with the enemy State, as well as in the context of such rules as that of English common law that an individual alien enemy cannot sue, enemy character is ascribed also to individuals, to bodies corporate and unincorporate, and to vessels and cargoes or goods. There are, however, no generally agreed rules of international law as to what constitutes enemy character in these extended senses.​
> *SOURCE*:​




​


			
				Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> Parry & Grant encyclopaedic dictionary of international law, © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. by John P. Grant and J. Craig Barker. -- 3rd ed. pg 182
> ​
> *(OF NOTE) *​◈  Article 77 of the UN Charter is found in Chapter XII International Trusteeship.  The article deals specifically to the application and Article 77(1)(1) specifically applies to:* "**territories now held under mandate*."​◈  Article 107 Outlines:  Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.​​


This is not an _ad Hominem_ attack on the Arab Palestinian people.  It is simply a statement of fact.  They were on the wrong side (the Central Powers) of the war (won by the Allied Powers).


P F Tinmore said:


> Does that mean that the natives became different people?


*(ANSWER)*

Just as the term "criminal" does not change the person or the state, nor does the term "Enemy and Enemy Character change the person or the people.  *It is about what they did or do → NOT who they are.

(COMMENT)*

This is an example of the Arab Palestinian trying to mislead the audience by casting a shadow over a perspective of the ground truth.  






_Most Respectfully,_
R


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

[ Ramadan becomes a time to kill Jews and "liberate Palestine".  ]


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## Hollie

Israel's Bennett is not going to allow the pally gee-had to continue taking Israeli lives. Unless his words are mere bluster, I would expect to see some proactive anti gee-had measures being implemented which might include operations to dismantle Islamic terrorist attacks still in the planning stages. 








__





						Keith Bennett’s brother believes he will learn TODAY whether his sibling’s bones have been found
					

USSA News. Breaking conservative news.




					ussanews.com
				




_i24 News_ – Israel’s premier on Friday gave security agencies “full freedom” of operation to curb the surge of Palestinian terrorism, after the latest deadly attack saw a gunman kill three men in a popular nightlife spot in Tel Aviv.


“There are not and will not be limits for this war,” Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said, speaking hours after security forces killed the Palestinian assailant following a 10-hour manhunt.

“We are granting full freedom of action to the army, the Shin Bet (the domestic security agency) and all security forces in order to defeat the terror,” he added.


The officers found the shooter hiding near a mosque in Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv, Israel’s Shin Bet security agency said. During an exchange of fire the terrorist was killed.


----------



## Hollie

Yes, the ''founding fathers'' of a virulently hateful and sociopathic Islamic terrorist franchise.

While Fatah is sometimes referred to as ''secular'' when compared to competing islamic terrorist organizations, Fatah justifies armed conflict with Israel on Islamic politico-religious terms. The inventor of ''pal'istanians''; Yasser Arafat, made that clear during an islamo-tirade at the Mayfair Mosque in Johannesburg on May 11, 1994.





__





						Arafat's Grand Strategy
					

For Yasir Arafat and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) leadership, the Oslo process has always been a strategic means not to a two-state solution—Israel and a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza—but to the substitution of a Palestinian




					www.meforum.org
				





> O my beloved ones, do not forget that our Palestine National Council accepted the decision in 1974. It called for the establishment of a national authority on any part of Palestinian land that is liberated or from which the Israelis withdrew. This is the fruit of your struggle, your sacrifices, and your jihad … This is the moment of return, the moment of gaining a foothold on the first liberated Palestinian land …  Long live Palestine, liberated and Arab.

















						Fatah officials still revere founding terrorists – who look down from the walls of Fatah branch offices | PMW Analysis
					

In addition to the terrorists, the Jericho and Jordan Valley office also exhibited this PA map of “Palestine” (left, in green) that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as “Palestine,”




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah officials still revere founding terrorists – who look down from the walls of Fatah branch offices​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 8, 2022




Visits by Fatah Central Committee Deputy Secretary Sabri Saidam to the Movement’s Jericho and Jordan Valley branch office and Hebron branch office illustrate that Fatah today still reveres the principles of its terrorist founders, who look down at today’s Fatah leaders from the office walls.


----------



## Hollie

What else would anyone expect?

Just a continuation of 1,400 years of a belligerent, caustic politico-religious ideology 












						Palestinian rioters vandalize Joseph's Tomb amid clashes with IDF
					

Gantz calls vandalism ‘a grave event and a serious violation of freedom of worship in one of the holiest places for every Jew’




					www.jpost.com
				




Palestinian rioters vandalized Joseph’s Tomb in the West Bank city of Nablus on Saturday night amid clashes with the IDF, damaging the gravestone, a chandelier hanging above it, a water tank and an electricity closet.


The vandalism comes amid the second night of arrest raids made by Israeli security forces in the West Bank, following a fatal terror attack on Thursday night in Tel Aviv that claimed three lives.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Ropey

These are the genetic Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" ... a Roman name.









						World Is Silent as Palestinian Rioters Torch Joseph's Tomb
					

Palestinian rioters vandalized Joseph's Tomb, one of Judaism's holiest sites, setting it on fire and smashing the gravestone.




					www.breitbart.com
				




The only way for this to reach mainstream news is when Israel retaliates...

...and one thing is certain, the pals can't spin Yosef ben-Yaacov as a settler who provoked this violence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The culture of Their Own Lives Do Not Matter ]

A Palestinian woman was shot dead by Israeli officers Sunday after trying to stab them at a checkpoint near the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, police said.

The Palestinian Authority Health Ministry later identified the alleged stabber as 24-year-old Maha Kazim al-Zaatry, a resident of Hebron.

The incident comes hours after an unarmed Palestinian woman was shot dead by Israeli soldiers after she ran toward them in the West Bank town of Husan.

(full article online)









						Palestinian woman stabs Israeli officer in Hebron, is shot dead
					

Officials say border guard, slightly hurt in attack, manages to fire back; incident comes hours after another Palestinian woman was shot dead in West Bank




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

There should be no misunderstanding. The current terror wave in which 4 terrorists have murdered 14 people in terror attacks in Israel – the latest of which took place in the heart of Tel Aviv on Thursday -  was initiated and is being fueled by the PA and PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party. In order to ignite and perpetuate the terror wave the PA and Fatah are using all their usual methods: Implicit and direct calls for violence; demonization of Israel and Israelis; invoking the false claim that Israel/Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque; attacking Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid for walking in Jerusalem; and repeating other sundry libels.

As Palestinian Media Watch has already exposed, in the run up to the Muslim month of Ramadan, the PA intensified its false rhetoric that Israel was seeking to escalate violence and destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Those calls were then used as a means to create hatred and recruit the Palestinians to conduct terror attacks.

Speaking on the first day of Ramadan, PA Supreme Shari’ah Judge Mahmoud Al-Habbash, made the PA expectations of the Palestinians perfectly clear: In the same way as Muslim Prophet Muhammad engaged in war during Ramadan, so too the Palestinians should engage in “Jihad.” Explaining how Muhammad embarked on the Battle of Badr and conquered Mecca during Ramadan, Al-Habbash clarified that Ramadan is “is not a month of laziness but rather … a month of Jihad, conquest, and victory.”














(full article online)










						The PA/Fatah initiated and fueled terror wave | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas’ advisor teaches Palestinians: “Ramadan is… not a month of laziness but rather … a month of Jihad, conquest, and victory”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Samir Saadi, deputy mayor of Nazareth, wrote a letter of condolence to his relatives Saturday evening on the death of terrorist Ahmad al-Saadi, a Palestinian Islamic Jihad who was killed that morning in Jenin in an exchange of fire with Israeli security forces, N12 and Kan News reported.

“Our condolences to the cousins in the Jenin camp. I ask Allah to receive him with the martyrs, the righteous and the good friends. “I ask Allah to heal all the wounded,” he posted on Facebook.

(full article online)









						Deputy mayor of Nazareth sends condolences to terrorist's family - his cousins | World Israel News
					

The official deleted the post shortly after it gained the attention of Israelis, who called for his arrest.




					worldisraelnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian media is saying that a young man killed by Israel on Sunday night, Mohammad Ali Ghneim, was a soccer player for the Al-Khader club in Bethlehem.

They are saying that "this crime comes as a continuation of the crimes of the Israeli occupation against Palestinian sports that have been killing their players and destroying their facilities for years, in violation of the international standards and laws of the International Football Association FIFA."

What exactly happened? Times of Israel reports:





> According to the Israeli army, soldiers who were carrying out an ambush near al-Khader identified a person throwing firebombs at an Israeli vehicle on the road that links the Etzion Bloc of settlements with Jerusalem.
> “The soldiers shot at the suspect. A hit was identified,” the Israeli military said, adding that the firebombs endangered the occupants of the vehicle.


A Palestinian quoted in the article says that Ghneim was too far away to have thrown any firebombs. But other Palestinian media say that he was killed while "confronting Zionist forces."

Ghneim was also a former prisoner, meaning that he had participated in terror activities in the past.

The crowd outside his house after his death, carrying his body, don't look like they are mourning. They act like he was a military hero. 



Put it all together, and - as in virtually all cases - the IDF version of events is much more plausible than that of Palestinians. 

(full article online)









						"Israel killed a soccer player!" (Oh, he was also a terrorist.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over the years, most public opinion polls of Palestinians ask, in the abstract, whether they support "armed struggle," the euphemism for terror attacks. The support levels for that abstract question always hovers around 50%. That is really bad. But it doesn't reflect the real opinions that Palestinians have towards terror.

Because over the years, when they have been asked about specific attacks that targeted Jews, their level of support doesn't diminish - it almost invariably skyrockets. 

In 2003, 75% supported the Maxim restaurant suicide bombing in Haifa that murdered 21 including four children.

In 2008, 84% supported the Mercaz HaRav massacre,killing 8 including 4 children.

In 2009, 71% of Palestinians said naming a soccer championship after the suicide bomber who murdered 30 Israelis at the Passover seder in the Park Hotel was a "good thing."

In 2015, 67% supported stabbing attacks against Jews during the "knife intifada."

61% of Palestinians supported the murder of 17-year old Rina Shnerb in 2019.

Last year, 72% of Palestinians believed that the thousands of Gaza rockets fired towards Israeli communities were "in defense of Jerusalem" and 68% said they would support launching rockets at Jewish communities in Israel in retaliation if residents of Sheikh Jarrah were evicted. 

Not in defense. The vast majority support targeting random Jews in revenge.

The polls about the current wave of attacks against Jews within the Green Line have not been released yet, but the public support for the attacks has been loud and strong, with pro-terror rallies in Jenin and elsewhere. You cannot find a single Palestinian op-ed that condemns, or even mildly criticizes, any of the recent attacks. Empathy towards Jewish victims of terror is literally nonexistent in Palestinian media. 

Have you ever seen a Palestinian rally against murdering Jews?

Just today, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas re-affirmed that payments to terrorists and their families are a top priority, saying, "What we are doing is our duty towards the orphans of martyrs and the prisoners and their families, who need all our help."

There is no exaggeration necessary. Palestinians really do enthusiastically and overwhelmingly support the murder of Jewish civilians.  It is a consistent pattern over 20 years of polling. 

That is the fundamental fact that the media refuses to report. They will say that "both sides" have "extremists." They will find an Israeli Jew who supports Baruch Goldstein and pretend that he represents a large constituency. They will report on the few hotheads who really do attack Palestinian farmers and give the impression that they are what most "settlers" are like. 

The media invariably exaggerate Israeli extremists - and minimize the Palestinian mainstream support of murdering Jews.

There is no comparison, and pretending that there is a parity there is itself justification for Palestinian depravity.

Almost alone among world conflicts, the vast majority of Palestinians really do actively support the most heinous crimes.  And while no one will justify child sex abuse or neo-Nazis, there are plenty of people who openly justify the Palestinian bloodlust of murdering Jews.


(full article online)









						With Palestinians, there is no need to exaggerate: they really support murdering random Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This is an example of the Arab Palestinian trying to mislead the audience by casting a shadow over a perspective of the ground truth.


What truth am I trying to mislead?


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


>



Stop the oppressive Jews!!!


----------



## Hollie

''Ramadan is a month of gee-had, conquest and victory".

That must explain the dead people left in the wake of Islam's unholy month of killing. 










						The PA/Fatah initiated and fueled terror wave | PMW Analysis
					

Abbas’ advisor teaches Palestinians: “Ramadan is… not a month of laziness but rather … a month of Jihad, conquest, and victory”




					palwatch.org
				





*Abbas’ advisor teaches Palestinians: “Ramadan is… not a month of laziness but rather … a month of Jihad, conquest, and victory”*​
 



There should be no misunderstanding. The current terror wave in which 4 terrorists have murdered 14 people in terror attacks in Israel – the latest of which took place in the heart of Tel Aviv on Thursday -  was initiated and is being fueled by the PA and PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party. In order to ignite and perpetuate the terror wave the PA and Fatah are using all their usual methods: Implicit and direct calls for violence; demonization of Israel and Israelis; invoking the false claim that Israel/Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque; attacking Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid for walking in Jerusalem; and repeating other sundry libels.


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic ''holy month'' of throwing firebombs. 

I'm on the horns of a dilemma here. What other ''religion'' celebrates in such a way?











						Israeli forces kill 4 Palestinians as violence escalates following terror attacks
					

Military says man killed as he threw a firebomb at an Israeli vehicle, raising to 4 the number of Palestinians killed in 24 hours.




					www.cbsnews.com
				




_Jerusalem_ — Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian man near the city of Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank, the Palestinian health ministry said early Monday. It was the latest incident in a growing wave of violence that has erupted during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

The Israeli military said it opened fire at a man throwing a firebomb at an Israeli vehicle driving on a West Bank highway late Sunday. The shooting raised to four the number of Palestinians killed in the past 24 hours, among them an unarmed woman who was shot and killed at a military checkpoint near Bethlehem.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Palestinian media emphasize that she was injured in the explosion, as if that is evidence that she couldn't have exploded the gas cylinder on purpose. Initially they claimed that the explosion was an electrical fire in the car, and then they said that a gas cylinder spontaneously exploded nowhere near a checkpoint and she was arrested anyway with no evidence.
The reality: 



> A woman detonated an explosive and lightly wounded a police officer near the A-Zaim checkpoint on the road between Ma'aleh Adumim and Jerusalem on Sunday morning.
> Police said a traffic police officer stopped the driver, who he thought was driving suspiciously, and approached the car to stop at the side of the road and then walked over to question her. The suspect then left the vehicle and the explosion occurred.
> "The driver shouted 'Allah Hu Akbar' (God is great) and detonated an explosive device," a police spokeswoman said.
> The woman attempted to ignite a gas tank in her car with flammable materials, while yelling "Allahu Akbar." She then tried to exit the vehicle. Other than the gas tank, there was no explosive device in her vehicle.
> Security forces found hand-written notes in her possession that contained messages of support for "martyrs."



Israa Jaradat also had a history of suicide attempts, so it makes perfect sense that she wanted to kill some Israelis in a suicide attack so her family would get lifetime salaries.
Another woman whom Palestinians try to elicit sympathy for is Ataaf Jaradat, who they claim was arrested as collective punishment for her sons being involved in murdering Yehuda Dimentman late last year.
The truth?
The entire Jaradat family are members of Islamic Jihad, and others have been involved in terror attacks. As far as Ataaf is concerned:



> Ataaf Youssef Muhammad Jaradat, the mother of the minor and one of the adult suspects, was also due to be charged with failing to prevent the attack and assisting them afterward, as her teenage son had told her about the plans in advance and she helped hide the weapons that they used after the attack, the military said.


It takes time to research the circumstances of each woman that Palestinians claim were wrongfully arrested, because the Internet is filled with false stories of their innocence. But when you spend the time, invariably you find that these "innocent" women are not at all innocent.

(full article online)









						The huge number of Palestinian women prisoners: 31. And, yes, they are terrorists.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

[T]he celebrations once again prove that a Palestinian who murders a Jew is a hero, whereas one who seeks peace with Israel is a traitor.
Here is an inconvenient truth for Blinken: the poll that was conducted one week before he arrived in Ramallah, the de facto capital of the Palestinians, showed that most Palestinians (58%) are opposed to the two-state solution. Why? They do not believe in Israel's right to exist.
These Palestinians want peace without Israel, not peace with Israel. The only peace they envision is one where Israel would cease to exist.
That is why -- as this and previous polls have shown -- most Palestinians continue to support Hamas, whose charter openly calls for the elimination of Israel.
Praising the recent wave of terror attacks in Israel, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said on April 9, "These recurring heroic operations prove a clear fact -- that there is no future for the Jews on our Palestinian land."
_t is leaders such as Zahar whom the Palestinians would prefer as their president. A Palestinian leader who talks about destroying Israel or murdering Jews has a better chance of being elected than one who states that he is opposed to terrorism and wants to work towards achieving a two-state solution.
[*]Palestinians have been radicalized... by their leaders to the point where peace with Israel or a two-state solution is seen as an opportunity to slaughter.
[*]The Biden administration, meanwhile, continues to pretend that Abbas and his government are credible partners, and that Israelis and Americans can do business with them.
[*]It would have been more useful had Blinken denounced the celebrations and publicly pressured the Palestinian leadership immediately to halt the massive campaign of incitement against Israel and the glorification of Palestinians who murder Jews.
[*]It is time for the Biden administration and other Western donors to start banging on the table and demanding an end to the poisonous campaign to delegitimize Israel and demonize Jews. Until that happens, we will continue to see Palestinians dancing and handing out candy because Jewish blood flows at their feet.
_
_

(full article online)









						Why Palestinians Celebrate the Murder of Jews
					

[T]he celebrations once again prove that a Palestinian who murders a Jew is a hero, whereas one who seeks peace with Israel is a traitor. Here is an inconvenient truth for Blinken: the poll that was conducted one week before he arrived in Ramallah, the




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org
				



_


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## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

What an audacious idea; the PA is liable for their actions.

It’s difficult to know what this could mean in terms of civil, criminal liability. I think for most infidels here in the Great Satan, it seems obvious that an individual or entity that actively promotes violence and killing and then offers financial rewards for those who are violent and kill would be quickly brought before the law. In the alternate reality of Islamic terrorism and a perceived entitlement to lawlessness and killing, - and to include international welfare contributions that have allowed Islamic terrorist killers to continue - matters are more complicated. 










						High Court: PA liable for terrorism due to money it pays attackers; victims can sue
					

Justice Yitzhak Amit rules that the Palestinian leadership 'expresses its consent' to attacks through its controversial stipends to terrorists and their relatives




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





The High Court of Justice on Sunday ruled that the Palestinian Authority can be held liable for terrorist acts, due to its controversial policy of paying stipends to security prisoners in Israeli jails and the families of those killed during attacks on Israelis.

Justice Yitzhak Amit, setting out the majority ruling, found that the decision to pay convicted Palestinian terrorists and those killed as part of the “struggle against Israel” makes the PA liable for their actions.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: The Culture of Death
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

The culture of death over peace is something that we have known since the passing of Yasser Arafat. It is a culture that is not likely to change.  What I find interesting is that the culture is largely ignored by the power brokers inside the DC Beltway, and completely beyond the understanding of the White House.  And these two fault create the corruption of the mainstream media and the open exchanges on many social media outlets.


Sixties Fan said:


> Why Palestinians Celebrate the Murder of Jews
> by Khaled Abu Toameh April 12, 2022 at 5:00 am
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Palestinians Celebrate the Murder of Jews
> 
> 
> [T]he celebrations once again prove that a Palestinian who murders a Jew is a hero, whereas one who seeks peace with Israel is a traitor. Here is an inconvenient truth for Blinken: the poll that was conducted one week before he arrived in Ramallah, the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gatestoneinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> •  [T]he celebrations once again prove that a Palestinian who murders a Jew is a hero,
> whereas one who seeks peace with Israel is a traitor.


*(COMMENT)*

This Culture of Death openly uses social media or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.

The Congress and the White House inadvertently feed each other in the ways that they address or ignore the actual ground truth.  And how anyone could put any faith at all in any assessment by the US Intelligence Community is simply beyond those in the know.  Together, Congress and the White House reward the Arab Palestinian for:

◈  The dissemination of information to  pursue political strategies that influence or persuade audiences to believe the Arab Palestinians have _*card blanche*_ in the continuous violation of Customary and International Humanitarian Law.​​◈  The advocacy of economic and religious hatred that is amplified by the dominant hold over the various communication outlets that use misleading information presented as fact to intentionally incite hostility and violence.​​◈  Together, the Congress and the White House openly reward the Arab Palestinians for violating the Geneva Convention, the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, and the Convention on the Suppression on Terrorist Bombings.​​◈  The Congress and the White House openly violate the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism by providing funding for the Arab Palestinian Leadership to continue rewarding and celebrating those Arab Palestinians that violate the Geneva Convention, the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, and the Convention on the Suppression on Terrorist Bombings.​
While it is obvious that the Congress and the White House are only interested in their accumulation and improvement of "personal" wealth, influence, and power for themselves, they actually have lost those very same attributes on the "national" level when it comes to achieving objectives that made America once the leader of the free world.  Outside the rarefied gasses of the beltway, the lost prestige of America cannot be overstated.  Jobs, industry, and promise are scraped away every day.  All the ability (*diplomatic, financial, political, economic, commercial, and military*) of America lost in the last half century has been due to the Washington Leadership.

We should take notice that although the title "Arab Palestinians" is, for the most part, an euphemism for Criminals Acting directly against Israel with the intention of → causing death to the civilian Jewish population, the purpose of such activity is not to achieve political objectives (_*freedom, independence, sovereignty*_) but to continue the financial flow of capital to improve the personal wealth, influence and power of certain members of the leadership.  Everything else is for show.  If the Arab Palestinian Leadership was actually working in the best interest of the people, peace and security would have been achieved decades ago.








_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

A new coordinated campaign started to pressure Israel to release a prisoner who participated in stabbing attacks in 2015.


Over the past couple of months we saw articles about Ahmed Manasra from Mondoweiss, claiming Israel is inflicting severe psychological torture on him, after Middle East Memo made the same charge.

Husam Zomlot, Head of Palestinian Mission to the UK, tweeted a thread in Manasra's defense. He includes a video of when Manasra was questioned, implying that Israeli interrogators were browbeating him into admitting his crime when he claimed he didn't remember them.

What they don't want you to see is the video of Mandara and his older cousin stabbing people.

(see video online)

They don't want you to see this video because it dissolves all sympathy for the vicious terrorist. They pretend he is still a child who cannot be in prison even though he is now 19 or 20. 

He was old enough to chase two people with intent to kill them. The only people who want him released are the ones who share his desire for dead Jews.

(full article online)









						Palestinian campaign to release a vicious stabber from Israeli prison
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Give them the money, ask them not what they do with it ]

In an effort to hide its practices and prevent any external scrutiny, the PA has blocked access to all the financial reports it used to publish. Since 2008, as part of an agreement to receive funding from the World Bank, the Palestinian Authority has been required to publish a range of financial documents, including its annual budget and monthly budget performance reports. While the PA temporarily honored the commitment to publish its annual budget, it has not done so since 2019. In contrast, with the exception of a few minor incidents (exposedby Palestinian Media Watch and then rectified), the PA had been relatively meticulous in publishing its monthly budget performance reports.

Until recently, (as shown below) the website of PA Ministry of Finance provided access to all the current and previous budget performance reports. 






The last PA budget performance report published was for January 2022 and was downloaded by PMW (as we have done with all the previous reports). Now, however, even this option has been blocked and the PA is preventing any outside scrutiny.






The PA’s decision to block all access to the reports on the site of the Ministry of Finance was taken after PMW used the reports to demonstrate how the PA spent 841 million shekels/$270.75 million, in 2021 alone, paying financial rewards to imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, wounded terrorists, and the families of dead terrorists.

Amazingly, while the PA is taking active steps to prevent any semblance of financial transparency, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh is holding high-level meetings with UN and other officials in preparation for the upcoming gathering of the Ad-Hoc Liaison Committee (AHLC - An international group of donors that coordinates aid to the PA*)*

(full article online)









						Why is the PA hiding its finances from the world? | PMW Analysis
					

In an effort to hide its practices and prevent any external scrutiny, the PA has blocked access to all the financial reports it used to publish.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ An Israeli Arab citizen who considers himself a Palestinian first, and not an Israeli at all ]


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## Sixties Fan

[ PA, when are you going to do The Right Thing ?  Stop inciting, stop paying for any murder of Jews.  Where is the Oslo Accords for you?  Buried along with all the Jews, and all others who have been murdered,  you have incited against ]


Ramallah's perverse terror payments mechanism is being employed in Israel on a wide scale: The Palestinian Authority pays out stipends worth thousands of shekels to hundreds of relatives of Israeli citizens involved in terrorist operations. According to an investigation conducted by the defense establishment at the request of Israel Hayom, the Israeli citizens receiving the benefits are either serving prison terms for conducting terrorist operations, assisting such operations, or acting against Israel in other ways. In the event that the terrorists were eliminated while conducting terrorist operations, the payments are transferred to their relatives.

Payments range from 1,400 shekels ($436) to 12,000 shekels ($3,742) depending on the type of operation, the number of people murdered in the operation, and the length of the sentence handed down to the terrorist perpetrator. Beyond the stipend itself, there are other benefits that the prisoner and his family receive. We should note here that according to Palestinian Authority law anyone who has murdered a Jew − or the perpetrator's family − will receive a salary for life.

Payments are made according to a set tariff published by the Palestinian Authority for terrorists resident in Judea and Samaria. Under PA law, the payments continue even after the terrorist has released been released from jail. The defense establishment has confirmed that the Palestinian Authority pays these terror stipends to all terrorists, without any connection to organizational affiliation. In other words, the Palestinian Authority, which is controlled by the PLO, also makes payments to terrorists who are members of Hamas or the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.





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					www.israelhayom.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Repeat after me:  Judea and Samaria, Judea and Samaria ]


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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Repeat after me:  Judea and Samaria, Judea and Samaria ]


The 1948 war is over.

The Nakba continues.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> The 1948 war is over.
> 
> The Nakba continues.


The Nakba brought on the Arabs by their Arab leaders.

Put an end to it and save Arab lives.

Enough of Arabs giving up their lives for an Islamic fairy tale.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The 1948 war is over.
> 
> The Nakba continues.



Pally losing is never ending.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Nakba brought on the Arabs by their Arab leaders.
> 
> Put an end to it and save Arab lives.
> 
> Enough of Arabs giving up their lives for an Islamic fairy tale.


The Nakba started 6 months before the 1948 war.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic "unholy month" of violence, mayhem and killing is in full gee-had as the faithful are urging more of the same. 










						Amid terror wave, incitement to violence floods Palestinian social media
					

PA President Abbas condemned attacks against Israeli civilians, but officials in his Fatah party express support for violence; Hamas, Islamic Jihad share posts praising terrorism




					www.google.com
				




Amid terror wave, incitement to violence floods Palestinian social media.

PA President Abbas condemned attacks against Israeli civilians, but officials in his Fatah party express support for violence; Hamas, Islamic Jihad share posts praising terrorism
By TOI STAFF
11 April 2022, 3:27 pm
​


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## Sixties Fan

This morning, the IDF killed Shas Kamamji as he tried to resist being arrested. (Three of his brothers were arrested; another brother was one of the Palestinians who briefly escaped the Gilboa prison last September.)

Abu Ali Express has some photos of Shas Kamamji.

This one shows how peaceful he was.





But this one is even more interesting:





The graffiti says "The people of the streets" - with a swastika.

Unlike other swastikas one sometimes sees made by Palestinians, this one isn't accusing Israel of being Nazi. This isn't meant to mock Jewish suffering. The graffiti shows solidarity with Nazis and Nazi philosophy in a place where it would only be seen by fellow Arabs.

And Shas Kamamji, who appears to have been a member of Islamic Jihad, clearly embraces that desire to support Nazi ideology.









						Nothing to see here. Just a Palestinian swastika.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

In a letter sent to the Jerusalem police station, the attorney wrote, "On April 10, 2022, my client was attacked by a minority individual in the light rail train car in Jerusalem. My client, a 16-year-old young woman, was standing and talking with her sister. At the same time, a group of minority youth were in the train car. Suddenly, and for no reason at all, one of the minority individuals came and delivered a strong blow to my client's arm. He then continued on his way, while he and his friends giggled."

"Minority youth" is a politically correct term often used to describe Muslim Arabs in Israel.

"My client, who felt strong pains, turned to the attacker to protest what he had done, but he treated her with contempt. My client and her sister got off at the 'Iriya' station and reported to police officers regarding the incident. Later, my client filed a complaint at the Sha'ar Binyamin police station.

(full article online )









						Jerusalem: Arab attacks Jewish woman on light rail train
					

Arab youth attacks, hits, young Jewish woman traveling on light rail train in Jerusalem. The suspect is still at large.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


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## Sixties Fan

To honor 16 terrorists serving one or numerous life sentences for murdering Israelis, Jenin District Governor Akram Rajoub and Salam Al-Taher, who serves as Head of the Educational Directorate in Jenin - a branch of the PA Ministry of Education - established the “Freedom to the Life Sentence Prisoners Garden” at the Izz A-Din Elementary School for Boys.

At the event, in which representatives from Fatah and “official institutions, security institutions, non-governmental institutions… the [PA-funded] Prisoners’ Club, and the [PLO] Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs” participated, olive tree seedlings “named after the life sentence prisoners” were planted. Reporting on the inauguration, the official PA daily noted that “*the speakers emphasized that there is one message in inaugurating the garden: We adhere to the prisoners’ cause and stand alongside them*.” [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 22, 2022] – In other words: The PA condones and encourages terror and murder of Israelis!

The terrorists glorified by the PA in the new garden either directly murdered Israelis, planned attacks, recruited, aided, and primed suicide bombers, or prepared bombs. All terrorists are praised as “heroic prisoners” on signs with their names by the olive tree saplings.

This is not the first PA school at which kids are taught to honor and admire murderers through an innocent looking garden with olive trees. Palestinian Media Watch has documented a similar initiative at a girls’ school in Jenin. At the inauguration of this garden, the same PA education official, Salam Al-Taher, explained the importance of teaching Palestinian children about “freedom” and “our heroic prisoners” such as Karim and Maher Younes who kidnapped and murdered an Israeli soldier.

Photos from the recent event at the boys’ school posted on Facebook, show the olive tree seedlings and the names of some of the terrorist murderers the PA Ministry of Education found suitable for being honored in the garden: (All the following photos are from the Facebook page of the Izz A-Din Elementary School for Boys, March 21, 2022)




(full article online)









						PA honors 16 terrorist murderers at boys’ school | PMW Analysis
					

What do 16 terrorist prisoners serving life sentences in Israeli prisons have in common other than having murdered Israelis?




					palwatch.org


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## Hollie

The article describes “Palestinian Authority is once again speaking with two voices about the current wave of terror.”

If we take a “what’s the bottom line” approach to Fatah, there is only one voice and that voice is screeching the gee-had message of Jew killing.

I would think it’s about time that Israel takes an offensive posture and uses its resources to root out the potential gee-had killers. 







__





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					www.israeltoday.co.il
				





As the wave of terror attacks against Israel continues and another major attack was prevented on Monday in Moshav Vered Jericho along the Dead Sea road, it is becoming increasingly clear that incitement is playing a major role in the sharp rise in violence. It, furthermore, has become clear that the Palestinian Authority is once again speaking with two voices about the current wave of terror.


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## Sixties Fan

I was looking at some of the live video taken this morning at the Temple Mount, and the Palestinians look like nothing more than actors, playing their roles.

Here are some kids who created a makeshift "barricade," with Israeli troops nowhere in sight. One has a soccer ball. Old men (and reporters) are watching as the audience. 



And in this video, one of the "worshipers" is literally dancing.



They have actors, they have props, they have an audience, they have a stage. 

It's all a game - and part of the game is to provoke the Israeli police to injure people so they can create headlines about how awful they are.

The violence this morning at the Temple Mount was the direct result of false rumors and lies spread by the Palestinians.  I had reported on the incessant rumors in the Arab world that Jews are planning to slaughter sheep to bring the Paschal sacrifice on the Temple Mount.

This is all because of a fringe Temple Mount activist who advertised that he would pay anyone for smuggling a sheep and slaughtering it. 

(full article online)









						All the world's a stage. Or at least Al Aqsa.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

I often wonder when I see accusations by Palestinians that Jews are planning something nefarious - accusations that never come true - whether they are driven by stupidity or malice.




A typical example comes from academic and author Dr. Louay Bawana who confidently writes in Jordanian news site Rums:




> The Jews have no right to Al-Aqsa, and all they tell and try to prove are myths. The danger of these rituals is embodied by the sacrifices they will make and the work to slaughter them inside the courtyards of Al-Aqsa Mosque, as it represents, in their view, an advanced and important step for their extremist project related to the *alleged temple. *From our point of view, it is also a dangerous step that represents an attempt to change the status quo of the Al-Aqsa Mosque by force and violence, with the support of the Israeli government, and a clear international, Arab and Islamic absence. The summit of their rituals is embodied by offering sacrifices and slaughtering them in the courtyards of Al-Aqsa Mosque and scattering their ashes in the Dome of the Chain area there...
> 
> The question that arises. What are the Arabs and Muslims waiting for as peoples and leaders? ? *The storming will take place tomorrow, Friday, and sacrifices will be slaughtered, and rituals will be practiced before our eyes there, with the protection of the Israeli police, and the martyrs will fall.* And the situation explodes and then we intervene and denounce. Yes, we need to close ranks, and we need a clear challenge to Israel and its plans. And each of us needs a historical testimony to prove his defense of Jerusalem and his non-complacency or neglect in the face* of the arrogance of the Jews*...


It is Friday. Jews are never allowed on the Temple Mount on Friday.

The guy is a professor, although I don't know in what field. Either he cannot distinguish between truth and fiction or he wants to incite violence.

There is of course some projection going on here - Arabs assume Israel will act like they would if the roles were reversed, and that idea is difficult to dislodge. But there is a more subtle projection going on here as well.

Arab media are censored and self-censored. They do not contradict what the rulers want them to write. So if an Israeli nutcase claims that he will slaughter animals on the Temple Mount and puts this on his Facebook page, Arabs naturally assume that it couldn't have happened without Israeli government support.  So even when the Israeli leaders deny the story, they cannot believe them, because how could the claim have been published without their support?

That explains the many articles from pundits and "experts" who write about imminent Israeli abuses.  (And when Israel doesn't play along, they provoke it.)

Yet even after years of watching and reporting on Israeli media, they still choose to believe what they want and ignore the rest. 

Not to say that there isn't direct, purposeful incitement and lies. Like this statement from Hamas' Ismail Haniyeh today:



> In the face of Zionist thuggery and the storming of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, there are only two options:
> 
> 1- To accept the occupation assault, its brutality, and its* colonial settlers' animal slaughter in Al-Aqsa Mosque,*
> 2- To consolidate the Islamic character and origin of Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa Mosque



He knows very well there wasn't any "animal slaughter" or even attempt at one today. In Hamas' case, incitement is its own reward. And this also goes for Palestinian Authority officials, who also look at inciting violence as a way to stay in power - and distract people from the shortcomings of their leaders. 










						Idiocy and malice in inciting Arabs to attack Jews
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## Sixties Fan

( It is Ramadan.  Time to attack Jews.
Israel must learn to close the Temple Mount to Muslims sometimes.  This was one of the times )







Palestinian protestors clash with Israeli security forces at the compound that houses Al-Aqsa Mosque, known to Muslims as Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as Temple Mount, in Jerusalem’s Old City April 15, 2022. REUTERS/Ammar Awad

i24 News – More than 150 people were wounded on Friday in clashes between Palestinian demonstrators and Israeli police at Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa mosque compound.

Israeli police said that before dawn “dozens of masked men” marched into al-Aqsa chanting and setting off fireworks before crowds hurled stones towards the Western Wall – considered the holiest site where Jews can pray.











						Palestinians Clash With Israeli Police at Temple Mount
					

Palestinian protestors clash with Israeli security forces at the compound that houses Al-Aqsa Mosque, known to Muslims as Noble Sanctuary …




					www.algemeiner.com


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## Sixties Fan

[ Was she influenced by PA/Hamas teachings or did she just want to get out of her house, which happens often?  ]


One person was wounded in a terrorist stabbing incident in the northern Israeli city of Haifa Friday afternoon.

The terrorist has been identified as a 15-year-old Muslim Arab girl from Haifa. Police arrested the terrorist and transferred her for interrogation.

The victim, a 47-year-old man, is listed in light-to-moderate condition.

(full article online)









						Terrorist stabbing attack in Haifa
					

Teenage Arab girl stabs man in Haifa after father warns of her plans to carry out terror attack in the capital.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

This may be what is needed to throttle the Pally gee-had during the Ramadan month of holy terrorism. 











						Israeli forces under 'no restrictions' against Palestinian terrorists
					

The IDF's involvement in stifling terror is "dictated only by the operational need," Defense Minister Benny Gantz said.




					m.jpost.com
				




There are no restrictions on the use of force against Palestinian terrorist suspects, Defense Minister Benny Gantz said Monday, and the scale of the IDF’s involvement in stifling terrorism is “dictated only by the operational need.”


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Apparently flush with welfare money to promote the Islamic terrorist gee-had, the Abbas syndicate is paying Israeli Arabs as it pays its own sociopath killers.












						PA making terror payments to hundreds of Israeli citizens
					

Those receiving the benefits are serving prison terms for carrying out or assisting terrorist operations, or acting against Israel in other ways, according to Israel's defense establishment.The post PA making




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




The Palestinian Authority is disbursing stipends worth thousands of shekels to hundreds of Israeli citizens involved in terrorist operations, and to their relatives.

According to an investigation conducted by the Israeli defense establishment at the request of _Israel Hayom, _those receiving the benefits are serving prison terms either for conducting or assisting terrorist attacks, or for acting against the state in other ways. In the event that the terrorists were killed while carrying out their attacks, the payments are transferred to their relatives.


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## Sixties Fan




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## Hollie

It's the Islamic 'holy month' and in keeping with the tradition of violence, savagery, riots, killing, etc., etc......











						Gantz ends West Bank closure amid Temple Mount violence
					

Hundreds of Palestinians arrested after violent 6 hour riot at the Temple Mount on Friday morning




					www.jpost.com
				




Hundreds of Palestinians arrested after violent 6 hour riot at the Temple Mount on Friday morning​





Palestinian protesters hurl stones towards Israeli security forces during clashes on the holy month of Ramadan at the Al-Aqsa mosque compound in Jerusalem's Old City on April 15, 2022.
(photo credit: JAMAL AWAD/FLASH90)


Israel lifted the closure on the West Bank and Gaza Strip at midnight on Saturday while continuing to deploy reinforcements to the Seam Line and acting against terrorism


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's the Islamic 'holy month' and in keeping with the tradition of violence, savagery, riots, killing, etc., etc......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gantz ends West Bank closure amid Temple Mount violence
> 
> 
> Hundreds of Palestinians arrested after violent 6 hour riot at the Temple Mount on Friday morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of Palestinians arrested after violent 6 hour riot at the Temple Mount on Friday morning​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian protesters hurl stones towards Israeli security forces during clashes on the holy month of Ramadan at the Al-Aqsa mosque compound in Jerusalem's Old City on April 15, 2022.
> (photo credit: JAMAL AWAD/FLASH90)
> 
> 
> Israel lifted the closure on the West Bank and Gaza Strip at midnight on Saturday while continuing to deploy reinforcements to the Seam Line and acting against terrorism





Hollie said:


> Palestinian protesters hurl stones towards Israeli security forces


If you don't like rocks, don't go where people throw rocks at you.

You don't need a PhD.


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## P F Tinmore

Abbas, Abbas, Abbas. Why do all these foreign idiots always turn to Abbas? They would be better off to see the janitor. He has more street creds than Abbas.


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## Hollie

There are hosts of really unpleasant connotations surrounding tribal justice in many Arab / Islamic backwaters. It seems the notion of tribal elders meting out 'justice' is alive and well in that little slice of paradise known as Gaza'istan. 










						Tribal courts rule Palestine with unforgiving traditions
					

Palestine's tribal court system may offer speedy justice, but it is also known for harsh penalties that amount to collective punishment and other human rights violations.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Tribal courts rule Palestine with unforgiving traditions​Palestine's tribal court system may offer speedy justice, but it is also known for harsh penalties that amount to collective punishment and other human rights violations.


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## Sixties Fan

Tens of thousands of Palestinian Muslim worshippers, including many from the West Bank, gathered at the Al-Aqsa compound atop the Temple Mount, said their midday prayers, and headed quietly back home again on Friday in the early afternoon.

They did so despite the palpably high tension in and around the Old City of Jerusalem, where only a few hours earlier crowds of mainly young, Jerusalem-area Palestinians had hurled rocks and clashed with Israeli police at Al-Aqsa, more than 150 people were reported injured, and close to 500 of the suspected Palestinian rioters were detained.

The difference, it should not need saying, is that the midday worshippers had genuinely gathered to say their prayers on the second Friday of Ramadan, and that’s what they did. The young Palestinians who rioted hours earlier, by contrast, had come to fight.

They had assembled piles of rocks and stones and barricaded themselves inside Al-Aqsa Mosque in preparation for the violence. Some had Hamas flags with them — incited by and affiliating themselves with the Islamist terror group that, with similar cynicism and indifference to true faith, has used Gaza’s mosques to store rockets when engaged in conflict with a Jewish state it openly seeks to destroy.

And as with Hamas in Gaza, while ostensibly guarding their religion and its third-holiest shrine, the rioters were actually dishonoring it.

You only had to look at their feet: The stone-throwers who clashed with Israeli security forces in and around Al-Aqsa Mosque had their shoes on — in breach of the respectful Islamic tradition to remove impure footwear when entering the house of prayer.


(full article online)









						Just look at their feet: The ‘defenders’ of Al-Aqsa are desecrating it
					

Tens of thousands of Palestinians dispersed peacefully on Friday afternoon after prayers in Jerusalem. The hundreds who clashed with police earlier, by contrast, had come to fight




					www.timesofisrael.com


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## Sixties Fan




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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> If you don't like rocks, don't go where people throw rocks at you.
> 
> You don't need a PhD.



Opposite bijo, it's exactly the other way around.
Before Zionism, Jewish presence was denied
even at the Cave of the Patriarchs.

The waqf decided its defeat the day they prevented entrance
to Rabbi Yosef Hayim Z"L, threatened him, after he came all the way from Iraq.


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## P F Tinmore




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## Hollie

Incitement to attack Jews is a program that starts with youngsters at an early age in the land of misfits, sometimes called the West Bank. 











						Father of teen girl suspected of terror stabbing says online videos incited attack
					

After 15-year-old Arab Israeli stabbed a man in Haifa, her dad says she watched YouTube videos of Temple Mount clashes shortly before the incident




					www.timesofisrael.com


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



_*"We belong..."*

_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian youths expel the Israeli occupation forces after trying to storm Al-Aqsa Mosque and prevent them from entering it to perform the Fajr prayer on the second Friday of Ramadan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

It's just so strange how the Islamic terrorist supporters tell us ''this is not a religious conflict'' when the Islamic terrorists appeal to their allah God to make it a religious conflict. 











						Imam on PA TV: Jews on Temple Mount defile the Al-Aqsa Mosque | PMW Analysis
					

Imam’s antisemitic call: “Allah liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque from the defilement of the evil Jews”




					palwatch.org
				




Imam on PA TV: Jews on Temple Mount defile the Al-Aqsa Mosque​Itamar Marcus  | Apr 18, 2022

*Imam’s antisemitic call: “Allah liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque from the defilement of the evil Jews”*​



The Palestinian Authority is continuing its policy of fanning the flames of religious hatred and Islam-inspired terror.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

Some housekeeping being done during riots sometimes called Ramadan, the unholy month of Islamic terrorism.












						Israel Security Forces Arrest 11 Terror Suspects Amid Clashes With Palestinian Rioters, Jerusalem Unrest | Israeli security forces during counter-terror operations in the West Bank. Photo: IDF Israeli security forces together with the IDF overnight a
					

Israeli security forces during counter-terror operations in the West Bank. Photo: IDF Israeli security forces together with the IDF overnight arrested 11 Palestinian terror suspects in a number of towns across the West Bank. The IDF said it conducted joint raids with security forces “following...




					ussanews.com
				




Israeli security forces together with the IDF overnight arrested 11 Palestinian terror suspects in a number of towns across the West Bank.


The IDF said it conducted joint raids with security forces “following the recent rise in the threat of terrorism.” The Israeli army has been on high alert during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, increasing its military operations in the West Bank after a wave of terror attacks over the past month that killed 14 people.


----------



## Hollie

Don't all religions mark their "holy" celebrations by committing acts of war, waging riots and killing people?

It made sense to some during their unholy month to fire a rocket at Israel causing the Israelis to respond in order to suppress further attacks. 

What's the over / under on how many peaceful inner strugglers will die as a result of their Ramadan month of Islamic terrorism?











						Israel hits Gaza after rocket attack as Jerusalem tensions spike
					

Israel carried out its first air strike on the Gaza Strip in months early Tuesday, in response to a rocket fired from the Palestinian enclave after a weekend of violence around a Jerusalem holy site.




					www.france24.com
				








Flames and smoke rise over the Gaza Strip town of Rafah after Israel carries out its first air strikes on the territory in months SAID KHATIB AFP
3 min
Jerusalem (AFP) – Israel carried out its first air strike on the Gaza Strip in months early Tuesday, in response to a rocket fired from the Palestinian enclave after a weekend of violence around a Jerusalem holy site


----------



## alexa

Sixties Fan said:


>


Of course and it was the intent to take over Al Aqsa which saw the deep divide in Israel - something no doubt which the majority of people were keen on - to get rid of those Arabs who have citizenship. As to the rest it allowed Israel to destroy Gaza again especial medical facilities and the killing of reporters and Israel carried on working to take over Al Aqsa and oh my goodness, some of the Muslims decided to fight back on that.

 So this is how far Israel's take over of Al Aqsa compound has got.



> Jordan’s Foreign Ministry summoned the Israeli Chargé d’Affaires on Monday to convey a message in protest of all Israeli provocative violations in the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem and to assert the need to respect worshipers’ right to practice their religious rites freely and without restrictions.
> 
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokesman Haitham Abul Ful said the Chargé d'Affaires was handed a letter of protest to his government, including a demand to immediately cease Israeli violations and attempts to change the historical and legal status of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and to impose a temporal and spatial division of the holy compound, Petra News Agency reported.











						Jordan on Alert to Counter Israeli Attacks on Al-Aqsa
					

Jordan’s Foreign Ministry summoned the Israeli Chargé d’Affaires on Monday to convey a message in protest of all Israeli provocative violations in the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem and to assert the need to respect worshipers’ right to practice their r




					english.aawsat.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Monday, Gaza terror groups shot a missile towards Israel that was intercepted by Iron Dome. 

While Hamas doesn't seem to have been directly responsible for the rocket attack, it seems likely that they gave the green light to another group to shoot it.

Why?

Because Hamas knows that Israel cannot just ignore the rockets, and will inevitably respond with a minor airstrike towards an empty weapons cache or similar target.

And knowing that, Hamas can test out its shoulder-mounted Strela anti-aircraft missiles.





Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem announced, “Congratulations to the men of the resistance who *confronted the fighter jets with our anti-aircraft defense.*” Qassem claimed it had been the first time that Hamas had used the surface-to-air missile.

In January, Gaza groups also fired anti-aircraft missilesat IDF helicopters that responded to "accidental" firing of rockets.

Hamas needs targets to practice using its weapons. What better target than Israeli planes and helicopters? Especially since they can be conjured up at will with a couple of cheap rockets.










						Is Hamas shooting rockets to test out their anti-aircraft missiles when Israel responds?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> On Monday, Gaza terror groups shot a missile towards Israel that was intercepted by Iron Dome.
> 
> While Hamas doesn't seem to have been directly responsible for the rocket attack, it seems likely that they gave the green light to another group to shoot it.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because Hamas knows that Israel cannot just ignore the rockets, and will inevitably respond with a minor airstrike towards an empty weapons cache or similar target.
> 
> And knowing that, Hamas can test out its shoulder-mounted Strela anti-aircraft missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem announced, “Congratulations to the men of the resistance who *confronted the fighter jets with our anti-aircraft defense.*” Qassem claimed it had been the first time that Hamas had used the surface-to-air missile.
> 
> In January, Gaza groups also fired anti-aircraft missilesat IDF helicopters that responded to "accidental" firing of rockets.
> 
> Hamas needs targets to practice using its weapons. What better target than Israeli planes and helicopters? Especially since they can be conjured up at will with a couple of cheap rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Hamas shooting rockets to test out their anti-aircraft missiles when Israel responds?
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com











						Resistance in Gaza Force Israeli Warplanes to Run Away; Why?
					

Days of Palestine – Gaza Israeli occupation warplanes attacked Tuesday night at a site belonging to the Palestinian Resistance, our correspondent documented and reported. The Israeli occupation warplanes immediately left the Gaza Sky after the attack, local sources confirmed. Meanwhile, Hebrew...




					daysofpalestine.ps
				



Israeli occupation warplanes attacked Tuesday night at a site belonging to the Palestinian Resistance, our correspondent documented and reported.

The Israeli occupation warplanes immediately left the Gaza Sky after the attack, local sources confirmed.

Meanwhile, Hebrew media affirmed that the “Israeli Air Force” was forced to leave the Gaza Strip, after firing a missile aimed at its aircraft.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Resistance in Gaza Force Israeli Warplanes to Run Away; Why?
> 
> 
> Days of Palestine – Gaza Israeli occupation warplanes attacked Tuesday night at a site belonging to the Palestinian Resistance, our correspondent documented and reported. The Israeli occupation warplanes immediately left the Gaza Sky after the attack, local sources confirmed. Meanwhile, Hebrew...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daysofpalestine.ps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation warplanes attacked Tuesday night at a site belonging to the Palestinian Resistance, our correspondent documented and reported.
> 
> The Israeli occupation warplanes immediately left the Gaza Sky after the attack, local sources confirmed.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hebrew media affirmed that the “Israeli Air Force” was forced to leave the Gaza Strip, after firing a missile aimed at its aircraft.


Reads like the silly bluster one would expect from buffoons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Reads like the silly bluster one would expect from buffoons.


We'll see. This could be a game changer.


----------



## Hollie

Adding some excitement to the Ramadan month of gee-had attacks


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

alexa said:


> As to the rest it allowed Israel to destroy Gaza again especial medical facilities



Did the medical facilities have rocket launchers in them?


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Palestinian Media Watch has been exposing the destructive messages of the Palestinian Authority’s education system and the problematic contents of the PA schoolbooks for over two decades (see here, here and here for just a few examples), for many years the donor countries turned a blind eye, ignoring the warnings. At a joint press conference with PMW to release one of PMW’s reports on PA schoolbooks, then Senator Hilary Clinton commented, that the PA textbooks “do not give Palestinian children an education; they give them an indoctrination…” and “profoundly poisons the minds” of the Palestinian children.

As additional studies repeated and reaffirmed PMW’s conclusions, the European Union, which has been a huge donor to the PA, was the first to take a stand conditioning its aid to the PA on curriculum reform. As a result of the EU decision, according to PA published financial reports, aid from the EU to the PA plummeted from 758,400,000 shekels ($235,447,517/ €217,717,141) in 2020 to just 97,000,000 shekels ($30,113,936/ €27,846,206) in 2021.

In June 2021, an EU commissioned report of the Georg Eckert Institute for International Textbook Research found the PA books to have antisemitic content; present Palestinian violence and terror against Israelis as part of a “heroic struggle”; and deny the legitimacy of Israel's existence through maps that erase Israel and label the entire area “Palestine.”

Despite being desperate for foreign aid, and while it knows that the international community has always been willing to donate generously for the education of the Palestinians, the PA is quite adamant about its refusal to implement any reform.

Rather than changing the destructive content of its schoolbooks, the PA expects the EU to capitulate and continue funding the PA schoolbooks.

Ignoring the old adage that “beggars can’t be choosers,” and rejecting the EU demand to implement curricula reform, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh told EU Commissioner for Neighborhood and Enlargement Olivér Várhelyi that:



> “We oppose having conditions placed on the European aid and want to preserve true partnership based on respect and cooperation, and not on conditions.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 25, 2022]


PA Minister of Foreign Affairs Riyad Al-Malki made similar statements, curiously arguing that it is “unacceptable” for states who *donate funds* to other states or entities such as the PA, to condition those donations on the recipient performing a certain action:

(full article online)









						Will the EU stand steadfast against PA hate and terror promotion or will it capitulate to PA’s perceived entitlement? | PMW Analysis
					

Rather than changing the destructive content of its schoolbooks, the PA expects the EU to capitulate and continue funding the PA schoolbooks.




					palwatch.org


----------



## alexa

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Did the medical facilities have rocket launchers in them?


well thankfully I was not in them.  It seemed to be a deliberate intent on blowing up medical units.  Gaza is known to have had its medical facilities well overused with the Great March of Return they did for over a year when Israel was shooting them sometimes to kill and sometimes just to main for life...so it was known Gaza did not have good working medical facilities and medicine.  Add to this that Gaza was having a massive Covid outbreak and one of the places which was bombed was where all the theory/work/decisions etc on covid were made and that certainly could be deliberate.  Then the last one I heard of was not the hospital itself but they totally bombed the road up to the hospital so that it was not possible to drive people up to it.  Likewise the killing of journalists.  If they were Palestinians it was usually when they were in their bed but Israel has been killing journalists for years including in the Great March.  Israel generally says anywhere she wants to bomb has Hamas weapons inside it.  The UN said in 2014 there were none.  When they themselves earlier found some in a school *which had not been used for over a year *they called them out on it.  I have now seen a few places with explosions in them going off.  Really you can hardly miss it and certainly not what Israel has been doing.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Resistance in Gaza Force Israeli Warplanes to Run Away; Why?
> 
> 
> Days of Palestine – Gaza Israeli occupation warplanes attacked Tuesday night at a site belonging to the Palestinian Resistance, our correspondent documented and reported. The Israeli occupation warplanes immediately left the Gaza Sky after the attack, local sources confirmed. Meanwhile, Hebrew...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daysofpalestine.ps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation warplanes attacked Tuesday night at a site belonging to the Palestinian Resistance, our correspondent documented and reported.
> 
> The Israeli occupation warplanes immediately left the Gaza Sky after the attack, local sources confirmed.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hebrew media affirmed that the “Israeli Air Force” was forced to leave the Gaza Strip, after firing a missile aimed at its aircraft.



Maybe if your pride is pomped enough with this nonsense,
they'll allow you and the pali-jihadis back into the soviet union...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

alexa said:


> It seemed to be a deliberate intent on blowing up medical units.



When terrorists hide behind civilians, sometimes the civilians get hit.


----------



## alexa

Toddsterpatriot said:


> When terrorists hide behind civilians, sometimes the civilians get hit.


anyone can say that just to be able to kill.  That is not how things work among rules of law and there was nothing in what I wrote to suggest your reply.


----------



## Sixties Fan

alexa said:


> anyone can say that just to be able to kill.  That is not how things work among rules of law.


You know nothing about what actually happened.  You come here to repeat lies about Israel, passing yourself as someone who knows what the rule of law is.

You do not.

Hamas always fires from civilian areas, from Mosques, schools, hospitals, homes.  That is fully documented.

You will find all of that information if you ever bother to look beyond your learned hatred for Israel.

Scotland is a Christian country which has unfortunately sided with the invaders, occupiers (the Arabs) rather than the indigenous people, the Jewish People/Nation.

Educate yourself.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

alexa said:


> That is not how things work among rules of law



You think Palestinian terrorists follow the rules of law?

*there was nothing in what I wrote to suggest your reply.*

_ It seemed to be a deliberate intent on blowing up medical units._

Seemed? Any evidence?


----------



## Sixties Fan

alexa said:


> well thankfully I was not in them.  It seemed to be a deliberate intent on blowing up medical units.  Gaza is known to have had its medical facilities well overused with the Great March of Return they did for over a year when Israel was shooting them sometimes to kill and sometimes just to main for life...so it was known Gaza did not have good working medical facilities and medicine.  Add to this that Gaza was having a massive Covid outbreak and one of the places which was bombed was where all the theory/work/decisions etc on covid were made and that certainly could be deliberate.  Then the last one I heard of was not the hospital itself but they totally bombed the road up to the hospital so that it was not possible to drive people up to it.  Likewise the killing of journalists.  If they were Palestinians it was usually when they were in their bed but Israel has been killing journalists for years including in the Great March.  Israel generally says anywhere she wants to bomb has Hamas weapons inside it.  The UN said in 2014 there were none.  When they themselves earlier found some in a school *which had not been used for over a year *they called them out on it.  I have now seen a few places with explosions in them going off.  Really you can hardly miss it and certainly not what Israel has been doing.


Here.  For your education


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

We salute every drop of blood spilled for the sake of Jerusalem. This blood is clean, pure blood, shed for the sake of Allah. Every martyr will be placed in Paradise, and all the wounded will be rewarded by Allah." — Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, MEMRI, September 16, 2015.
The small number of Jews who have peacefully toured the outdoor Temple Mount area in the past few years have never even set foot inside the Aqsa Mosque or on the nearby Dome of the Rock. The Jewish visitors do not go there to assault or humiliate Muslims. They go there as part of organized tours that are coordinated with the Israeli authorities.
Blinken's remarks show that he considers the construction of new homes for Jews more dangerous than the murder of Israelis on the streets of Israeli cities.
This is all happening while the Biden administration airily disregards endless Palestinian blood libels and vicious incitement against both Israel and the Jews.
Prominently, Blinken did not threaten to suspend US financial aid to the Palestinians over the payments to the families of terrorists who murdered Jews and the ongoing incitement to attack Israelis.
Take note: as long as Blinken considers the construction of apartments for Jews a greater threat than shooting and stabbing Israeli men and women at shopping malls and bars, the Palestinians will not cease their blood payments and murderous incitement.
Unless the US administration makes it unmistakably clear that the Palestinians will pay dearly for continuing to reward terrorists and their families, the Palestinians will not even slow down either desecrating holy sites or committing their terror attacks.

(full article online )









						How Palestinians Desecrate Everyone's Holy Sites, Including Their Own
					

"We salute every drop of blood spilled for the sake of Jerusalem. This blood is clean, pure blood, shed for the sake of Allah. Every martyr will be placed in Paradise, and all the wounded will be rewarded by Allah." — Palestinian Authority President




					www.gatestoneinstitute.org


----------



## alexa

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You think Palestinian terrorists follow the rules of law?
> 
> *there was nothing in what I wrote to suggest your reply.*
> 
> _ It seemed to be a deliberate intent on blowing up medical units._
> 
> Seemed? Any evidence?



Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years.  Hamas rarely does anything violent unless Palestinians have been treated really badly. Israel blames Hamas for everything other groups in Gaza who Hamas has no control over do.  Israel several years ago decided it was no longer going to carry on following the rules of law.  The people writing the new way they were going to act hoped soon the US would be doing the same.  They tried this out first in Lebanon. This lost Israel the long time support of Lebanese Christians.  I noticed when I heard the Russians make their speaches about what they thought ukraine was like that it was pretty much the same script that Israel uses against the Palestinians.  The US is quite happy when Israel does her bit but not when it is Russia.

 I gave you my opinion from my memory of the time.. I have not been following up since as I have been very ill but may start doing so or not.  









						Israel 'deliberately' targets healthcare institutions in Gaza
					

The Palestinian ministry of health in the Gaza Strip said on Monday that the Israeli occupation has been 'deliberately' targeting healthcare institutions since the beginning of the war, Anadolu news a...




					www.middleeastmonitor.com
				




 I had forgotten they were also deliberately attacking medics including top ones, in their beds of course.  You believe that everyone was sitting on Hamas weapons.  Fantasy world is so cool.


----------



## Hollie

alexa said:


> Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years.  Hamas rarely does anything violent unless Palestinians have been treated really badly. Israel blames Hamas for everything other groups in Gaza who Hamas has no control over do.  Israel several years ago decided it was no longer going to carry on following the rules of law.  The people writing the new way they were going to act hoped soon the US would be doing the same.  They tried this out first in Lebanon. This lost Israel the long time support of Lebanese Christians.  I noticed when I heard the Russians make their speaches about what they thought ukraine was like that it was pretty much the same script that Israel uses against the Palestinians.  The US is quite happy when Israel does her bit but not when it is Russia.
> 
> I gave you my opinion from my memory of the time.. I have not been following up since as I have been very ill but may start doing so or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel 'deliberately' targets healthcare institutions in Gaza
> 
> 
> The Palestinian ministry of health in the Gaza Strip said on Monday that the Israeli occupation has been 'deliberately' targeting healthcare institutions since the beginning of the war, Anadolu news a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeastmonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had forgotten they were also deliberately attacking medics including top ones, in their beds of course.  You believe that everyone was sitting on Hamas weapons.  Fantasy world is so cool.



"Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years."

Islamic terrorist rules of law are vastly different from those that most of us who dwell In the 21st century are familiar with.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

alexa said:


> Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years.  Hamas rarely does anything violent unless Palestinians have been treated really badly. Israel blames Hamas for everything other groups in Gaza who Hamas has no control over do.  Israel several years ago decided it was no longer going to carry on following the rules of law.  The people writing the new way they were going to act hoped soon the US would be doing the same.  They tried this out first in Lebanon. This lost Israel the long time support of Lebanese Christians.  I noticed when I heard the Russians make their speaches about what they thought ukraine was like that it was pretty much the same script that Israel uses against the Palestinians.  The US is quite happy when Israel does her bit but not when it is Russia.
> 
> I gave you my opinion from my memory of the time.. I have not been following up since as I have been very ill but may start doing so or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel 'deliberately' targets healthcare institutions in Gaza
> 
> 
> The Palestinian ministry of health in the Gaza Strip said on Monday that the Israeli occupation has been 'deliberately' targeting healthcare institutions since the beginning of the war, Anadolu news a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeastmonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had forgotten they were also deliberately attacking medics including top ones, in their beds of course.  You believe that everyone was sitting on Hamas weapons.  Fantasy world is so cool.



*Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years.*

You're lying.

*Hamas rarely does anything violent unless Palestinians have been treated really badly. *

Like Israelis praying?
*
Israel blames Hamas for everything other groups in Gaza who Hamas has no control over do.*

The Hamas government of Gaza gets blamed for other terror groups attacking from Gaza?
That makes me sad. Poor innocent Hamas.

* Israel several years ago decided it was no longer going to carry on following the rules of law.  *

You're lying.

Thanks for the link.

_He added that several paramedics were also killed while trying to evacuate casualties from those areas hit hardest by Israeli strikes. The last one was killed in Shajaiya alongside a firefighter and a journalist. All of them were killed while wearing distinctive uniforms._

OMG! That's awful!
They should never kill terrorists when they're in disguise.


----------



## rylah

alexa said:


> Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years.  Hamas rarely does anything violent unless Palestinians have been treated really badly. Israel blames Hamas for everything other groups in Gaza who Hamas has no control over do.  Israel several years ago decided it was no longer going to carry on following the rules of law.  The people writing the new way they were going to act hoped soon the US would be doing the same.  They tried this out first in Lebanon. This lost Israel the long time support of Lebanese Christians.  I noticed when I heard the Russians make their speaches about what they thought ukraine was like that it was pretty much the same script that Israel uses against the Palestinians.  The US is quite happy when Israel does her bit but not when it is Russia.
> 
> I gave you my opinion from my memory of the time.. I have not been following up since as I have been very ill but may start doing so or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel 'deliberately' targets healthcare institutions in Gaza
> 
> 
> The Palestinian ministry of health in the Gaza Strip said on Monday that the Israeli occupation has been 'deliberately' targeting healthcare institutions since the beginning of the war, Anadolu news a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeastmonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had forgotten they were also deliberately attacking medics including top ones, in their beds of course.  You believe that everyone was sitting on Hamas weapons.  Fantasy world is so cool.



Whatever lies you choose to believe in your little world.

Arab imperialism is opposed by people
for the same reason they oppose
Russian imperialism.


----------



## alexa

Hollie said:


> "Hamas have been better at following the rules of law than Israel in latter years."
> 
> Islamic terrorist rules of law are vastly different from those that most of us who dwell In the 21st century are familiar with.


no dear.  What you do not realise is that for the lawful there is one rule of law.  In particular Israel decided to give up on her need for care of civilians.  That is what happened in Lebanon.  Israel supporters in this forum appear to believe everything is make believe.

Hamas generally is said to go against the rules of law in that it doesn't target who it wants because its weapons are incapable, not through choice.  Israel chose to do this deliberately in her 2014 assault on the people of Gaza.



> Israel made a very deliberate choice to unleash indiscriminate shelling on the people of Gaza last summer. For example, the army used 533 percent more unguided artillery shells than in its 2008-2009 assault, according to a report by the London-based Action on Armed Violence. At irresistible bargain prices, these weapons are so inaccurate even the army suspended their use from 2006 until 2009.
> 
> Mitch Ginsburg, a military correspondent for the Times of Israel, explained with chilling frankness that these weapons are ideal when the military doesn’t have a precise target, but simply wants to “quiet an area”.
> 
> But non-combatants were no less safe when Israel employed its more precise weaponry. A recent report, published by Defence for Children International, finds that Israel directly targeted children with drones last summer. Some 164 out of the 535 children left dead were killed by Israeli drones that provide the military with “well-defined” images of their targets. Lawyers from the army’s international law division are sometimes even stationed in Israel’s war-room to approve such strikes.











						Israel’s twist on international law
					

Israel’s laws are meant to save them from the past and protect them from the future.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

alexa said:


> Hamas generally is said to go against the rules of law in that it doesn't target who it wants because its weapons are incapable, not through choice.



So it chooses to commit a war crime, every time they launch a rocket toward civilians.

Thanks for admitting that.


----------



## rylah

alexa said:


> no dear.  What you do not realise is that for the lawful there is one rule of law.  In particular Israel decided to give up on her need for care of civilians.  That is what happened in Lebanon.  Israel supporters in this forum appear to believe everything is make believe.
> 
> Hamas generally is said to go against the rules of law in that it doesn't target who it wants because its weapons are incapable, not through choice.  Israel chose to do this deliberately in her 2014 assault on the people of Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s twist on international law
> 
> 
> Israel’s laws are meant to save them from the past and protect them from the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



Arab supremacists talk of 'make believe'
before pulling out an al jazeera ...?


----------



## Hollie

alexa said:


> no dear.  What you do not realise is that for the lawful there is one rule of law.  In particular Israel decided to give up on her need for care of civilians.  That is what happened in Lebanon.  Israel supporters in this forum appear to believe everything is make believe.
> 
> Hamas generally is said to go against the rules of law in that it doesn't target who it wants because its weapons are incapable, not through choice.  Israel chose to do this deliberately in her 2014 assault on the people of Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s twist on international law
> 
> 
> Israel’s laws are meant to save them from the past and protect them from the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


One rule of law is obviously not true as sovereign nations have laws very different across societal / geographic areas. 

Hamas and Farah clearly do target who they want. The street killings, knife attacks, car ramming attacks aimed at Israelis are the direct result of incitement on behalf of the islsmic terrorist franchises. 

Let's not pretend that Israeli is not systematic in its targeted strikes that are intended to limit civilian casualties.  The IAF uses precision munitions as opposed to the islamic terrorist buffoons who frequently kill pallys. 










						How Many Gaza Palestinians Were Killed by Hamas Rockets in May? An Estimate
					

Much of the coverage and commentary surrounding the fighting in May between Hamas and Israel has focused on numbers, especially the much larger number of Palestinians than Israelis killed. The number




					besacenter.org
				




That 16 Palestinians, including eight children, were killed in just one day by two errant Palestinian rockets underscores just how dangerous these projectiles are. Considering that 680 Palestinian rockets and mortars landed inside Gaza during the 11 days of fighting, this one-day toll suggests that a significant number of Gaza residents were killed by those weapons.

Allahu Akbar?


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a “tunnel city” under the sandy soils of southern Gaza, Palestinian fighters are preparing for the next conflict with Israel, as tensions in Jerusalem threaten to escalate.

The underground passageways leave no trace on the surface.

But in a wooded area near Khan Younis, seven masked men in military fatigues carried a collection of machine guns and grenade launchers into a tunnel entrance discreetly tucked into the foot of a small hill.



(full article online)









						Islamic Jihad shows off ‘tunnel city’ as it readies for next campaign against Israel
					

During media tour in Gaza, terror group claims it has defensive and offensive tunnel systems, with the latter to be used for taking soldiers captive and repelling ground offensives




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie

I've never associated SJP gee-had wannabes with clarity of thought and reading about their whining complaints of some nonsensical genocide of pallys while insisting Israel must be destroyed is... just precious. 











						SJP Forum Hypes Palestinian "Genocide" While Advocating for Israel's Elimination
					

If a seminar last Wednesday organized by the anti-Israel group Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is any indicator, City University of New York (CUNY) law students may be challenged both in vocabulary and in irony. Palestinians are resisting




					www.investigativeproject.org
				




If a seminar last Wednesday organized by the anti-Israel group Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is any indicator, City University of New York (CUNY) law students may be challenged both in vocabulary and in irony.

Palestinians are resisting "genocide," third-year CUNY law student Nerdeen Kiswani said during the seminar. The only acceptable answer is to reject any peace efforts and work toward eliminating Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Respect their Mosques? ]

Minor confrontations were reported at Jerusalem’s Temple Mount and the Al-Aqsa Mosque Wednesday morning between Israeli police and Palestinians, with heightened tensions in the city ahead of a planned right-wing march that has not been approved by authorities.

Videos from the mount showed rocks and Molotov cocktails being hurled at cops, including from within Al-Aqsa.

Several firebombs sparked small fires in a mosque and a carpet at an entrance. These were put out. The clashes were limited in scope.

(full article online)









						Palestinans inside Al-Aqsa Mosque throw Molotov cocktails; right-wingers plan march
					

Palestinian rioters hurling petrol bombs spark small fires at mosque, amid minor clashes; Israeli parade organizers say it will go ahead, despite police ban on current route




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: How has the conflict effected you personally?​


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The IAF has launched retaliatory strikes at Gaza in response to Islamic terrorist attacks. I'm afraid the Israeli response to the Islamic terrorist attacks will be ''proportional'' as opposed to making a point that acts of war have serious consequences. 












						IDF hits Hamas sites during pair of overnight raids in response to Gaza rocket fire
					

In largest exchange of fire since 2021 war, IDF says it targeted Hamas military post, terror tunnel, underground rocket manufacturing site, compound used by air defense force




					www.timesofisrael.com
				








A fireball is seen rising following apparent Israeli airstrikes in the Gaza Strip, April 21, 2022. (Sreenn capture/Twitter)

Gaza terror groups fired a salvo of rockets at southern Israel after midnight on Thursday, less than an hour after the IDF finished an air offensive in the Hamas-ruled enclave in response to an earlier rocket attack.


----------



## Hollie

It seems these folks haven't adjusted their clocks to daylight savings time beginning in the 7th century.












						Gaza Islamic Scholar Abd Al-Hamid Dabbous: The Goal of Jihad Is to Make People Convert to Islam; People Who Convert by Force Later Regret Not Converting on Their Own Free Will; People Who Refuse to Convert Can Pay the Jizya Poll Tax Instead
					

Gazan Islamic scholar Abd Al-Hamid Dabbous said in an April 10, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Palestine – Islamic Jih...




					www.memri.org
				




*Gaza Islamic Scholar Abd Al-Hamid Dabbous: The Goal of Jihad Is to Make People Convert to Islam; People Who Convert by Force Later Regret Not Converting on Their Own Free Will; People Who Refuse to Convert Can Pay the Jizya Poll Tax Instead*​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Very predictable. A Gaza "islamist scholar" urging the faithful to commit crimes to further the gee-had.















						Gaza Islamic Scholar Wael Al-Zard Calls for 'Electronic Jihad': Raid Israel's Servers, Use Ransomware And Viruses, Steal Information That Can Help Jihadi Operations
					

Gaza Islamic scholar Wael Al-Zard, a member of the Palestine Islamic Scholars Association, said in an April 16, 2022 int...




					www.memri.org
				




Gaza Islamic Scholar Wael Al-Zard Calls for “Electronic Jihad”: Raid Israel's Servers, Use Ransomware and Viruses, Steal Information That Can Help Jihadi Operations


----------



## Sixties Fan

Filastin newspaper masthead, 1912



From an academic paper, "The Origins of the term “Palestinian” (“Filasṭīnī”) in late Ottoman Palestine, 1898–1914:"



> The word “Palestinian” gained acceptance as a description of Palestine’s Arabic speakers during the first decade and a half of the 20th century. Khalīl Baydas first used the term in 1898, followed by Salīm Qub‘ayn and Najīb Naṣṣār in 1902. Then, after the 1908 Ottoman Constitutional Revolution eased press censorship laws, dozens of periodicals appeared in Palestine, and the term “Palestinian” exploded in usage as result.


I knew that the term was barely used before the 1910s, but here we see (assuming the paper is correct) that the term "Palestinians" wasn't used by Arab residents of Palestine at all before 1898.

Most scholars understand that Palestinian nationalism was not organic, but a response to Jewish nationalism. Here is another piece of evidence that proves it to be true. After all, if there were a Palestinian people that lived in the land for centuries or millennia - what did they call themselves?










						The word "“Filasṭīnī”, Arabic for a Palestinian, was not invented until 1898
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: The CONTINUING  Culture of Death
⁜→ P F TINMORE, et al,

*PREFACE*:  According to Britannica, a "culture is a pattern of behavior shared by a society, or group of people." *  "The violence of sadistic impulses and paranoid anxieties does not leave room for establishing good (whole) internal objects."••"In this respect, psychic development is experienced as growth when the individual has been able to establish his or her good internal
objects and deal with paranoid and depressive anxieties, manic defenses, and obsessional mechanisms, in brief, when the ego has used every possible resource in its effort to overcome the depressive position. ...  The violence of sadistic impulses and paranoid anxieties does not leave room for" the positive cultural development."  The feeling of emptiness and nothingness that the melancholic exhibits is due to a failure."  

*Britannica Student Encyclopedia eBook edition,  Copyright © 2010 (January) by Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. Vol "C"pp 636 of 2927
**_Cultures of the Death Drive, Melanie Klein  © 2003 Duke University Press, Durham and London_


P F Tinmore said:


> "On this day in 1936, the Palestinians began their great revolution in all of Palestine"


*(COMMENT)*
.
In 1936, the Arab inhabiting the Territory under the Mandate (as presented by P F Tinmore) are beginning their decent into the Culture of the Death we see today.  While they may disagree with the label, the Arab Palestinians glorify and reward the homicidal policies of government and the lethal actions of the individual psychotic behaviors that we have seen.  They fight tooth and nail to avoid the processes that may lead to peace.  They are obsessed with the notion that the Territory formerly subject to the Mandate, should be handed to them on a silver platter.  And because it has not been so, the Arab Palestinians use this to foment violence and establish a culture of which teaches the art of hatred.  They will absolutely insist that the Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians also consider The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.  And they use this as justification to continue the violence.  





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

When the leadership of the Palestinian Authority declares that their number one priority is to maintain its “Pay-for-Slay” terror reward payments to imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and the families of dead terrorists, they are not just paying lip service. Analysis of the PA’s expenditure in 2021 shows that, per capita, the amount the PA spends on rewarding terror is astronomical!

A combination of financial reports published by the PA with population statistics provided by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics demonstrates the following outrageous reality:


The PA spends *33.34 times more *per capita paying terror rewards than it spends on health services for the Palestinian population.  
The PA spends *10.86 times more* per capita paying terror rewards than it spends on education of Palestinian children under the age of 18.
The PA spends *1.87 times more* per capita paying terror rewards than it spends on benefits for the needy Palestinian population.  
As exposed by Palestinian Media Watch, in 2021 the PA spent no less than 841 million shekels ($270.75 million) paying rewards to terrorists. 600 million shekels ($193.16) were paid to terrorist prisoners and released terrorists and another 241 million shekels ($77.59 million), at least, were paid to wounded terrorists and the families of dead terrorists.

This huge sum was paid to a maximum of 5,000 prisoners, a maximum of 12,000 released prisoners and a maximum of 40,000 families of dead terrorists. In other words, the PA spent an average of 14,771 shekels rewarding each terrorist. The above numbers of prisoners, released prisoners, and families of dead terrorists, are based on PA publications since 2018.  

In comparison, according to the financial reports the PA used to publish, in 2021 the total expenditure of the PA Ministry of Health was 2,316,089,000 shekels. Since the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics claims that in 2021 there were 5,227,193 Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank, (i.e. Judea and Samaria) this means that the PA’s per capita expenditure on the health of the Palestinians was a mere 443 shekels, over 33 times less than its expenditure on terror reward payments.

Similarly, according to the financial reports the PA used to publish, in 2021 the total expenditure of the PA Ministry of Education was 3,140,744,000 shekels. The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics claims that in 2021, 44.2% of the 5,227,193 Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank, (i.e. Judea and Samaria) were under the age of 18 - i.e. 2,310,419 children. This means that the PA’s per capita expenditure on the education of Palestinian  children was 1,359 shekels - over 10 times less than its expenditure on terror reward payments.  

(full article online)









						PA puts its money where its mouth is: Terror rewards before anything else | PMW Analysis
					

Analysis of the PA’s expenditure in 2021 shows that, per capita, the amount the PA spends on rewarding terror is astronomical!




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan

Former Israeli beauty queen Tehila Levi was viciously attacked Wednesday afternoon while walking her dog in the mixed city of Ramle, near Tel Aviv, Israel National News reported, citing Hebrew-language Kan News.

A resident of Ramle, she was with her 11-year-old brother when the attack was carried out by two Arabic-speaking “minority individuals who apparently had been waiting around the neighborhood since the morning,” Levi said.

(full article online)









						Arabs attack former Israeli beauty queen in mixed Jewish-Arab city; Orthodox man attacked in Jerusalem | World Israel News
					

"This is the scariest thing that happened to me in my life. You have no safety to walk around in your neighborhood.," Tehila Levi said.




					worldisraelnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestinians glorify and reward the homicidal policies of government and the lethal actions of the individual psychotic behaviors that we have seen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


They were preparing for the predictable foreign invasion.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> They were preparing for the predictable foreign invasion.


What foreign invasion?

Just another of your nonsensical emotional outbursts.


----------



## Hollie

There's such a thing as a presidential advisor to Abbas.  He is apparently under the impression that pallys existed before there were pallys. 

Interesting what you learn from an invented people with an invented history and invented national identity who existed before they were invented. 











						Palestinian Presidential Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: We Have Been Here Since Before The Natufians, Canaanites, Jebusites; The Jews Have No Connection Whatsoever To This Land, Will Disappear Like All Other Conquerors Before Them
					

Mahmoud Al-Habbash, a senior advisor to PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said in a Friday, April 15, 2022 sermon in Ramallah ...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Presidential Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: We Have Been Here Since Before The Natufians, Canaanites, Jebusites; The Jews Have No Connection Whatsoever To This Land, Will Disappear Like All Other Conquerors Before Them


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There's such a thing as a presidential advisor to Abbas.  He is apparently under the impression that pallys existed before there were pallys.
> 
> Interesting what you learn from an invented people with an invented history and invented national identity who existed before they were invented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Presidential Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: We Have Been Here Since Before The Natufians, Canaanites, Jebusites; The Jews Have No Connection Whatsoever To This Land, Will Disappear Like All Other Conquerors Before Them
> 
> 
> Mahmoud Al-Habbash, a senior advisor to PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said in a Friday, April 15, 2022 sermon in Ramallah ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Presidential Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: We Have Been Here Since Before The Natufians, Canaanites, Jebusites; The Jews Have No Connection Whatsoever To This Land, Will Disappear Like All Other Conquerors Before Them


You are assuming that there was a complete change of population within the last few thousand years.

Do you have any info on that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> You are assuming that there was a complete change of population within the last few thousand years.
> 
> Do you have any info on that?


Nonsensical question.

You do know for a fact that there has been a Muslim Arab invasion and colonization since the 7th Century CE.  

And most of all, hundreds of thousands of Arabs migrated to the area at the end of the 19th century and beginning of 20th century due to Jews building cities, and infrastructure, creating jobs for those Arabs.

Those Arabs and their descendants got stuck in what is not the conflict due to Al Husseini's ambitions.

Complete change of population!!!   Ha.

Tinmore comes up with the most idiotic ideas.

But only about Ancient Israel and modern Israel.
Because Jews are not meant to have any human or indigenous rights to their homeland.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Nonsensical question.
> 
> You do know for a fact that there has been a Muslim Arab invasion and colonization since the 7th Century CE.
> 
> And most of all, hundreds of thousands of Arabs migrated to the area at the end of the 19th century and beginning of 20th century due to Jews building cities, and infrastructure, creating jobs for those Arabs.
> 
> Those Arabs and their descendants got stuck in what is not the conflict due to Al Husseini's ambitions.
> 
> Complete change of population!!!   Ha.
> 
> Tinmore comes up with the most idiotic ideas.
> 
> But only about Ancient Israel and modern Israel.
> Because Jews are not meant to have any human or indigenous rights to their homeland.


Cool deflection.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool deflection.


No Cool deflection.

This is Your Life !!!!!

Denying all historical facts.

Keep it up


----------



## Hollie

In the words of Huddie Ledbetter, ''Lead belly'';, master of the 12 string guitar:

_I'm laughin' just to keep from cryin'_

Behold the utter fraud that is the PLC, the faux Pal Legislative Council. The Pal Fraud Council is a collection of do-nothings, know-nothings who are celebrating ten years of doing nothing, knowing nothing and accomplishing nothing since their last faux ''election''.

Well, they do collect welfare payments so perhaps my criticism was a bit harsh.










						How Palestine's parliament is squandering millions of dollars
					

There are no prospects that a new speaker could be elected or the PLC itself could be activated, as millions of dollars are disbursed to cover the spending of members of parliament.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




RAMALLAH, West Bank — Jan. 25 marked the 10th anniversary of the Palestinian Legislative Council's last election. The PLC consists of 132 elected members of parliament (84 parliamentarians in the West Bank and 48 in Gaza) who were convened in 27 legal sessions from the date they were elected in 2006 until June 14, 2007, when parliament sessions were disrupted following clashes between Fatah and Hamas, and the latter’s control over the Gaza Strip. Between 2006 and the present, they have failed to pass any legislation, except for laws pertaining to the PLC's costs and expenses.

This has prompted citizens to raise questions on parliamentary expenditures such as the salaries of parliamentarians and parliament's staff members and the ongoing privileges despite the parliament's inactivity.





State worthy folks those money-grubbing frauds. 

Maybe if we gave them more welfare money, they would, you know, steal more.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I love virtue signaling.

From Algemeiner:




> “Palestinians have basically said … that Zionism is a bedfellow of Nazism and antisemitism,” claimed Rutgers University assistant professor Noura Erakat during an April 13 webinar.
> 
> Sponsored by the University of Illinois’s Center for South Asian and Middle Eastern Studies (CASMES), her presentation on “Unfinished Business: Zionism as Racism and Racial Discrimination,” further established her reputation as one of academia’s leading bigots.



Her lies and antisemitism are all over the place:



> Zionist Jews “do not want to assimilate with non-Jewish society,” she claimed, without explaining whether religious preferences or even communal survival for relatively small groups, including Jews, requires limits to assimilation. “Jewish superiority” is “fundamentally rooted in the belief that Jews are God’s chosen people.”


Hmmm. Israel wants relations with all Arab and Muslim countries, many of them want nothing to do with the Jewish state. Zionist Jews are interested in dialogue with ll, BDSers like Noura Erakat want no one to speak to them.

Who's intolerant again?

But this is the part I really love:


> “I recognize myself in North America as a settler,” who is “white adjacent,” yet proud of being “quite brown,” she said eagerly.


A lot of social justice warriors love to identify which part of Native American land they are living.

But when they demand that Jewish "settlers" - one of the few people son Earth who are literally living in the land of their original ancestors -  be the only ones who must move out of their houses and give them to people who falsely claim to be "native."

Will Noura give up her apartment and find some North American land that was never settled by anyone before to build her new house? Or will she move back to where her ancestors lives in Arabia?

If not, this is nothing more than virtue signaling - "Hey, I recognize that I am an oppressor, but I don't have to pay the price - the other oppressors that I identify do!"

Noura Erakat is a hypocrite. But I repeat myself.











						Hey Noura Erakat, if you are a settler in North America, why don't you give your house to a native American?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In the words of Huddie Ledbetter, ''Lead belly'';, master of the 12 string guitar:
> 
> _I'm laughin' just to keep from cryin'_
> 
> Behold the utter fraud that is the PLC, the faux Pal Legislative Council. The Pal Fraud Council is a collection of do-nothings, know-nothings who are celebrating ten years of doing nothing, knowing nothing and accomplishing nothing since their last faux ''election''.
> 
> Well, they do collect welfare payments so perhaps my criticism was a bit harsh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Palestine's parliament is squandering millions of dollars
> 
> 
> There are no prospects that a new speaker could be elected or the PLC itself could be activated, as millions of dollars are disbursed to cover the spending of members of parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RAMALLAH, West Bank — Jan. 25 marked the 10th anniversary of the Palestinian Legislative Council's last election. The PLC consists of 132 elected members of parliament (84 parliamentarians in the West Bank and 48 in Gaza) who were convened in 27 legal sessions from the date they were elected in 2006 until June 14, 2007, when parliament sessions were disrupted following clashes between Fatah and Hamas, and the latter’s control over the Gaza Strip. Between 2006 and the present, they have failed to pass any legislation, except for laws pertaining to the PLC's costs and expenses.
> 
> This has prompted citizens to raise questions on parliamentary expenditures such as the salaries of parliamentarians and parliament's staff members and the ongoing privileges despite the parliament's inactivity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> State worthy folks those money-grubbing frauds.
> 
> Maybe if we gave them more welfare money, they would, you know, steal more.


The PLC was shut down after the US coup against the PA in 2007.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> I love virtue signaling.
> 
> From Algemeiner:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her lies and antisemitism are all over the place:
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Israel wants relations with all Arab and Muslim countries, many of them want nothing to do with the Jewish state. Zionist Jews are interested in dialogue with ll, BDSers like Noura Erakat want no one to speak to them.
> 
> Who's intolerant again?
> 
> But this is the part I really love:
> 
> A lot of social justice warriors love to identify which part of Native American land they are living.
> 
> But when they demand that Jewish "settlers" - one of the few people son Earth who are literally living in the land of their original ancestors -  be the only ones who must move out of their houses and give them to people who falsely claim to be "native."
> 
> Will Noura give up her apartment and find some North American land that was never settled by anyone before to build her new house? Or will she move back to where her ancestors lives in Arabia?
> 
> If not, this is nothing more than virtue signaling - "Hey, I recognize that I am an oppressor, but I don't have to pay the price - the other oppressors that I identify do!"
> 
> Noura Erakat is a hypocrite. But I repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Noura Erakat, if you are a settler in North America, why don't you give your house to a native American?
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


No link to her talk?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The PLC was shut down after the US coup against the PA in 2007.


Still pressing that silly conspiracy theory.


----------



## Hollie

​







						Senior Hamas Official Mousa Abu Marzouk Laments International 'Double Standards': Nobody Cares About The Palestinian Refugees, But Everyone Is In Turmoil Over Ukrainian Refugees With White Skin And Blue Eyes; Their Resistance Is Considered Legitimate
					

Mousa Abu Marzouk, the head of Hamas’ International Relations Bureau, said in an April 7, 2022 interview on Mayadeen TV ...




					www.memri.org
				


​Senior Hamas Official Mousa Abu Marzouk Laments International 'Double Standards': Nobody Cares About The Palestinian Refugees, But Everyone Is In Turmoil Over Ukrainian Refugees With White Skin And Blue Eyes; Their Resistance Is Considered Legitimate, While Ours Is Considered 'Terrorism'​


The pal Cultists don't understand the absurdity in calling their offensive gee-had 'resistance'. 

The brutish, violent, politico-religious ideology of Islamism has a 1,400 year long history of war and aggression.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: The Culture 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

*PREFACE*:  I am in tears over this complaint.  Anyone have a hanky handy so I may clear these tears up?



Hollie said:


> Senior Hamas Official Mousa Abu Marzouk Laments International 'Double Standards': Nobody Cares About The Palestinian Refugees, But Everyone Is In Turmoil Over Ukrainian Refugees With White Skin And Blue Eyes; Their Resistance Is Considered Legitimate, While Ours Is Considered 'Terrorism'​



The Arab Palestinians have insinuated their own definition as to what constitutes a "Refugee."

Additionally, while an entire set of books could be written on the subject, by narrowing the focus and taking baby-steps so that the Palestinians might be able to follow how the dots connect, this is an example.

*(COMMENT)*
.
On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented.

Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​
The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. *All automatically became citizens of Jordan.*​
The Customary and International Humanitarian Law was adopted in 1949 and went into effect on 21 OCT 1950. 

On July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.

The expression “ terra nullius ” was a legal term of art employed in connection with “occupation” as one of the accepted legal methods of acquiring sovereignty over territory. “Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory otherwise than by cession or succession, it was a cardinal condition of a valid “occupation” that the territory should be terra nullius— a territory belonging to no-one—at the time of the act alleged to constitute the “occupation” . . .’:​​The only territory which can be the object of occupation is that which does not already belong to another state, whether it is uninhabited, or inhabited by persons whose community is not considered to be a state; for individuals may live on as territory without forming themselves into a state proper exercising sovereignty over such territory’. (Page 596 Encyclopedia Dictionary)​
No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the entry into force of the Statute.  (Article 24, RS-ICC).  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy.  In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted (Article 22, RS-ICC).
 
As you can see, it is not hard to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the Arab Palestinian Claim.  That would be reinforced by the fact that the Arab Palestinians rejected invitations on matters of self-governing institutions some many times.





_Most Respectfully,_
R

References:
•  Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and a Protocol relating to the Status of Stateless Persons
•  Direct Participation in Hostilities Under International Humanitarian Law
•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Non-retroactivity _ratione personae_
• _Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law / John P. Grant and J. Craig Barker._ -- 3rd ed. Copyright 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc. 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: The Culture
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:  I am in tears over this complaint.  Anyone have a hanky handy so I may clear these tears up?
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have insinuated their own definition as to what constitutes a "Refugee."
> 
> Additionally, while an entire set of books could be written on the subject, by narrowing the focus and taking baby-steps so that the Palestinians might be able to follow how the dots connect, this is an example.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented.
> 
> Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.​
> The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. *All automatically became citizens of Jordan.*​
> The Customary and International Humanitarian Law was adopted in 1949 and went into effect on 21 OCT 1950.
> 
> On July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.
> 
> The expression “ terra nullius ” was a legal term of art employed in connection with “occupation” as one of the accepted legal methods of acquiring sovereignty over territory. “Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory otherwise than by cession or succession, it was a cardinal condition of a valid “occupation” that the territory should be terra nullius— a territory belonging to no-one—at the time of the act alleged to constitute the “occupation” . . .’:​​The only territory which can be the object of occupation is that which does not already belong to another state, whether it is uninhabited, or inhabited by persons whose community is not considered to be a state; for individuals may live on as territory without forming themselves into a state proper exercising sovereignty over such territory’. (Page 596 Encyclopedia Dictionary)​
> No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the entry into force of the Statute.  (Article 24, RS-ICC).  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy.  In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted (Article 22, RS-ICC).
> 
> As you can see, it is not hard to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the Arab Palestinian Claim.  That would be reinforced by the fact that the Arab Palestinians rejected invitations on matters of self-governing institutions some many times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R
> 
> References:
> •  Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and a Protocol relating to the Status of Stateless Persons
> •  Direct Participation in Hostilities Under International Humanitarian Law
> •  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Non-retroactivity _ratione personae_
> • _Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law / John P. Grant and J. Craig Barker._ -- 3rd ed. Copyright 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. Published by Oxford University Press, Inc. 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016





RoccoR said:


> The expression “ terra nullius ” was a legal term of art employed in connection with “occupation” as one of the accepted legal methods of acquiring sovereignty over territory. “Occupation” being legally an original means of *peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory*


It was not terra nullius and has never been peaceful.


RoccoR said:


> The only territory which can be the object of occupation is that which does not already belong to another state,


It was determined that Palestine was a state by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others.


> * Furthermore, it is not for the judiciary, but for the political branches of the Government to determine that Palestine at that time was a foreign state. This the Executive branch of the Government did in 1932 with respect to the operation of the most favored nations provision in treaties of commerce.12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KLETTER v. DULLES | 111 F.Supp. 593 (1953) | supp5931564 | Leagle.com
> 
> 
> MORRIS District Judge. This is an action by the plaintiff to secure a declaratory judgment that he is an American citizen. Certain...supp5931564
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.leagle.com



This statehood cannot be taken away by foreign powers.


> Article 4





> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
> 
> Article 8​No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States - The Faculty of Law
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jus.uio.no


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It was not terra nullius and has never been peaceful.
> 
> It was determined that Palestine was a state by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others.
> 
> 
> This statehood cannot be taken away by foreign powers.
> ​


You forgot to trot out your Zebra.


----------



## Hollie

It’s all the rage for the dead martyr walking. 












						Lone-wolf Palestinian terrorists show private gripes now top ideology, say analysts
					

Ex-officer in Israeli military intelligence says young Palestinians are fed up with 'the ideologies and the high politics' and are thus turning to 'individual efforts'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				







A woman looks at T-shirts with M-16 rifles printed on them, displayed in a shop window at a market in the West Bank city of Ramallah, on April 20, 2022. (Abbas Momani/AFP)


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Context
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*: This is all a matter of perspective.



P F Tinmore said:


> It was not terra nullius and has never been peaceful.


*(COMMENT)*
.
Between April 1950 and Jul 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom maintain a valid sovereign claim to the territory over which the 1949 Armistice Agreement (Israeli - Jordanian) covered. The 1967 Six Day War over that territory was an *International Armed Conflict* (IAC) between the Israelis and the Jordanians. During the period between 10 JUN 1967 and 31 Jul 1988 the situation would best be described as Israeli Occupation of Sovereign Jordanian Territory. The inhabitants were Jordanian Citizens. During this same period (between 10 JUN 1967 and 31 Jul 1988) there was nonactive IAC. All the Jordanian Forces withdrew to the eastern side of the Jordanian River.

When the Jordanian Government voluntarily cut all ties with holdings west of the Jordan River, the Arab Palestinians had no provisional government to assume control and the normal functions of every government. In the three decades since Jordan abandon territory west of the Jordan, the Arab Palestinians have yet to form a stable government that can stand on its own.

The *Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) for the State of Palestine (of December 2012) claims:

The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967, is the internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine. A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967. The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem.​
The UN Legal Affairs Office held the position that:

"Prior to the adoption of Resolution, A/RES/67/19, Palestine was not identified as a State or country, nor could its authorities be identified as a government.​
All the proceeding put together, places a question as to whether that the claim it is occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) is sound and valid.
.


P F Tinmore said:


> It was determined that Palestine was a state by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others.


*(COMMENT)*
.
Again, this statement is dubious and questionable as to its truthfulness.

The Arab Palestinians rejected the participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions at least three times prior to the completion of the Treaty of Lausanne (1924). And when the various authorities cited here refer to the Government of Palestine or loosely as a state, it was in the context of the Mandatory Administration and not as an independent and self-governing entity.

In the Memorandum "A" of A/AC.21/UK/42 *25 February 1948*, it is made perfectly clear the status of the territory formerly under the Administration of the Mandate.

Palestine is today a legal entity, but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​2. After the 15 May 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity, but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​3. Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time in a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948; is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held but so far as His Majesty’s Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues.​
This claim that this or that organization holds the position that "Palestine," is in one status or another, goes to the question of "context." And again, immediately prior to the creation of the Jewish State, "Palestine" was NOT self-governing.
.


P F Tinmore said:


> This statehood cannot be taken away by foreign powers.


*(COMMENT)*
.
This is a "utopian" ideal.  Anyone who believes this to be true is absent experience and wisdom.

*(∑Ω)*

I cannot stress enough the importance of context and the ability of the commentator to refrain from mixing the "wishful outcome" with that of "reality." 





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: Context
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*: This is all a matter of perspective.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Between April 1950 and Jul 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom maintain a valid sovereign claim to the territory over which the 1949 Armistice Agreement (Israeli - Jordanian) covered. The 1967 Six Day War over that territory was an *International Armed Conflict* (IAC) between the Israelis and the Jordanians. During the period between 10 JUN 1967 and 31 Jul 1988 the situation would best be described as Israeli Occupation of Sovereign Jordanian Territory. The inhabitants were Jordanian Citizens. During this same period (between 10 JUN 1967 and 31 Jul 1988) there was nonactive IAC. All the Jordanian Forces withdrew to the eastern side of the Jordanian River.
> 
> When the Jordanian Government voluntarily cut all ties with holdings west of the Jordan River, the Arab Palestinians had no provisional government to assume control and the normal functions of every government. In the three decades since Jordan abandon territory west of the Jordan, the Arab Palestinians have yet to form a stable government that can stand on its own.
> 
> The *Negotiation Affairs Department* (NAD) for the State of Palestine (of December 2012) claims:
> 
> The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967, is the internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine. A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967. The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem.​
> The UN Legal Affairs Office held the position that:
> 
> "Prior to the adoption of Resolution, A/RES/67/19, Palestine was not identified as a State or country, nor could its authorities be identified as a government.​
> All the proceeding put together, places a question as to whether that the claim it is occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) is sound and valid.
> .
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Again, this statement is dubious and questionable as to its truthfulness.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians rejected the participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions at least three times prior to the completion of the Treaty of Lausanne (1924). And when the various authorities cited here refer to the Government of Palestine or loosely as a state, it was in the context of the Mandatory Administration and not as an independent and self-governing entity.
> 
> In the Memorandum "A" of A/AC.21/UK/42 *25 February 1948*, it is made perfectly clear the status of the territory formerly under the Administration of the Mandate.
> 
> Palestine is today a legal entity, but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.​​2. After the 15 May 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity, but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.​​3. Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time in a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948; is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held but so far as His Majesty’s Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues.​
> This claim that this or that organization holds the position that "Palestine," is in one status or another, goes to the question of "context." And again, immediately prior to the creation of the Jewish State, "Palestine" was NOT self-governing.
> .
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> This is a "utopian" ideal.  Anyone who believes this to be true is absent experience and wisdom.
> 
> *(∑Ω)*
> 
> I cannot stress enough the importance of context and the ability of the commentator to refrain from mixing the "wishful outcome" with that of "reality."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


Holy deflection, Batman!

What is dubious about my post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It was not terra nullius and has never been peaceful.
> 
> It was determined that Palestine was a state by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others.
> 
> 
> This statehood cannot be taken away by foreign powers.
> ​


Indeed. If indeed It was indeed determined that Pal'istan was indeed a state as determined by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others, why are the Pal Islamic terrorists demanding statehood?

Indeed, provide the specific references to a), League of Nations, b) the US*, c), several courts and d) others granting statehood to the Magical Kingdom of Pal'istan.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> It was determined that Palestine was a state by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others.



That's awesome! So how did the Arabs fuck that up?


----------



## Hollie

Such lovely folks. What I never read is anything being done to improve their own lives or the lives of their children. They're just completely consumed with jew hating. 












						Father Of Palestinian Terrorist Who Murdered Three Israelis In Tel Aviv Shooting: I Am Pleased With My Son; Allah, Make Us Among The First To Strom The Al-Aqsa Mosque
					

On April 8, 2022, a video surfaced on Palestinian internet sources of the family members of Raad Hazem, the Palestinian ...




					www.memri.org
				




Father Of Palestinian Terrorist Who Murdered Three Israelis In Tel Aviv Shooting: I Am Pleased With My Son; Allah, Make Us Among The First To Storm The Al-Aqsa Mosque​


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> Indeed. If indeed It was indeed determined that Pal'istan was indeed a state as determined by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others, why are the Pal Islamic terrorists demanding statehood?
> 
> Indeed, provide the specific references to a), League of Nations, b) the US*, c), several courts and d) others granting statehood to the Magical Kingdom of Pal'istan.





Hollie said:


> Indeed. If indeed It was indeed determined that Pal'istan was indeed a state as determined by the League of Nations, the US*. several courts and others, why are the Pal Islamic terrorists demanding statehood?
> 
> Indeed, provide the specific references to a), League of Nations, b) the US*, c), several courts and d) others granting statehood to the Magical Kingdom of Pal'istan.


Oops. Youtube must be out of videos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine: Daily Life and Culture  - A Conversation with Osama Muhammad Nazzal.​


----------



## Hollie

Pally life, death and culture.









						Killing under the name of honor is being used as a tool to murder females #IsraaGhrayeb
					

A 21-year-old Palestinian woman Israa Ghrayeb was murdered by members of her family in Palestine this August.




					www.google.com


----------



## Hollie

Pallys whine.

After recent shooting, stabbing and rocket attacks by pally terrorists, Israel has chosen to secure its borders and limit the number of pally terrorists who can attack Israeli civilians.

Entitled Pallys whine, of course. 











						Israel closes crossing to Gaza workers after rockets
					

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel said Saturday that it would close its border crossing to thousands of Gaza workers after a series of rockets were fired from the territory ruled by the militant Hamas group in recent days.




					apnews.com
				




JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel said Saturday that it would close its border crossing to thousands of Gaza workers after a series of rockets were fired from the territory ruled by the militant Hamas group in recent days.

The Palestinians denounced the move as “collective punishment” of the impoverished territory’s 2 million residents, who have lived under an Israeli-Egyptian blockade since Hamas seized power from rival Palestinian forces nearly 15 years ago.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> Pallys whine.
> 
> After recent shooting, stabbing and rocket attacks by pally terrorists, Israel has chosen to secure its borders and limit the number of pally terrorists who can attack Israeli civilians.
> 
> Entitled Pallys whine, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel closes crossing to Gaza workers after rockets
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel said Saturday that it would close its border crossing to thousands of Gaza workers after a series of rockets were fired from the territory ruled by the militant Hamas group in recent days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel said Saturday that it would close its border crossing to thousands of Gaza workers after a series of rockets were fired from the territory ruled by the militant Hamas group in recent days.
> 
> The Palestinians denounced the move as “collective punishment” of the impoverished territory’s 2 million residents, who have lived under an Israeli-Egyptian blockade since Hamas seized power from rival Palestinian forces nearly 15 years ago.



That's outrageous!!!
They're limiting the Muslim freedom of religion........to kill infidels.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Context yet Again
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

HOLLIE, you are right on the money_!_



Hollie said:


> JERUSALEM (AP)
> The Palestinians denounced the move as “collective punishment” of the impoverished territory’s 2 million residents, who have lived under an Israeli-Egyptian blockade since Hamas seized power from rival Palestinian forces nearly 15 years ago.


*(COMMENT)*
.
Israel can close its border at any time.  They do not need a reason.

*IF* the Israelis had started to line up Gazans against the T-Wall and started shooting them (as _*reprisals against protected persons*_) *THEN* that would be the intent of the "collective punishment" within the Code.
•  *Article 33 Fourth Geneva Convention*​• _*Article 7(1h), International Criminal Code*_​.​This is another example of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) which is intended to mislead the general public as part of the HoAP active propaganda effort influenced through the media.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

It really is remarkable how much money is spent keeping Pal terrorism in business. There is no viable pally economy for the simple reason that their welfare money is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The economies of the Gaza / Fatah welfare fraud networks operate like this: The welfare fraud agency maintained by the United Nations, (UNRWA), supplies the money for subsistence living. That is supplemented by the Great Satan, the people of the European Union and donors to charities world-wide. There is also incoming war materiel from Iran and other enemies of Israel. This welfare fraud business has amounted to multiple billions of dollars over decades which has allowed pally crooks to make personal fortunes and pays for luxury shopping malls which benefit the pal industry of Islamic terrorism.











						PA puts its money where its mouth is: Terror rewards before anything else | PMW Analysis
					

Analysis of the PA’s expenditure in 2021 shows that, per capita, the amount the PA spends on rewarding terror is astronomical!




					palwatch.org
				




When the leadership of the Palestinian Authority declares that their number one priority is to maintain its “Pay-for-Slay” terror reward payments to imprisoned terrorists, released terrorists, and the families of dead terrorists, they are not just paying lip service. Analysis of the PA’s expenditure in 2021 shows that, per capita, the amount the PA spends on rewarding terror is astronomical!

A combination of financial reports published by the PA with population statistics provided by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics demonstrates the following outrageous reality:


The PA spends *33.34 times more *per capita paying terror rewards than it spends on health services for the Palestinian population.  
The PA spends *10.86 times more* per capita paying terror rewards than it spends on education of Palestinian children under the age of 18.
The PA spends *1.87 times more* per capita paying terror rewards than it spends on benefits for the needy Palestinian population.


----------



## Hollie

Just what one would expect from an Islamic terrorist franchise.

While the leaders of the Fatah Islamic terrorist franchise continue their propaganda effort to paint themselves as the eternally aggrieved victim, it should be remembered that they legitimize murderous attacks on Israeli citizens.












						Fatah leader: PA wanted and called for murderous Tel Aviv terror attack | PMW Analysis
					

The Tel Aviv murderer “implemented” PA leadership’s “decisions”




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah leader: PA wanted and called for murderous Tel Aviv terror attack​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 20, 2022

*The Tel Aviv murderer “implemented” PA leadership’s “decisions”*​
*Fatah gloats it killed most Israelis: “No one has inflicted more loss of life on Israel than Fatah. When Fatah would set out to the battlefield, you would count hundreds of killed Israelis.”*​
*Terrorist who murdered 3 “terrified Tel Aviv” – Fatah on official PA TV*​
*Tel Aviv murderer “shook Tel Aviv” – moderator at event glorifying Tel Aviv murderer*​



A senior Fatah leader explained that the recent murder of civilians in Tel Aviv was precisely what the PA leadership wanted and had called for. He said that when Ra’ad Hazem murdered 3 in Tel Aviv and another terrorist, Ahmed Al-Sa’adi, shot at Israeli soldiers, they “implemented” plans and “decisions” made by the PLO, Fatah, and “the Palestinian leadership.”


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> What truth am I trying to mislead?



That your anti-Israel agenda isn't motivated by concern for any of the people involved,
rather exploit and prolong  the suffering to fuel more racism. Therefore because
you're invested in prolonging the conflict,  instead of engaging in debate,
choose to incite by disinformation and blood libels knowingly.

Those like you screaming the loudest about racism,
 will openly call pro-Israel Arabs *by the N-word*.

Every cause you exploit - is to further injustice.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

rylah said:


> That you anti-Israel agenda isn't motivated by concern for any of the people involved,
> rather exploit and prolong  the suffering to fuel more racism. Therefore because
> you're invested in prolonging the conflict,  instead of engaging in debate,
> chose to incite by disinformation and blood libels knowingly.
> 
> Those like you screaming the
> loudest - represent the least.
> 
> Every cause you exploit,
> is to further injustice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> That your anti-Israel agenda isn't motivated by concern for any of the people involved,
> rather exploit and prolong  the suffering to fuel more racism. Therefore because
> you're invested in prolonging the conflict,  instead of engaging in debate,
> choose to incite by disinformation and blood libels knowingly.
> 
> Those like you screaming the loudest about racism,
> will openly call pro-Israel Arabs *by the N-word*.
> 
> Every cause you exploit - is to further injustice.


The Palestinians want all of Palestine?

WOW!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians want all of Palestine?
> 
> WOW!



See again, you're knowingly lying for Arab imperialists
who want an exclusive domination over the entire
Middle East, North Africa and then some...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians want all of Palestine?
> 
> WOW!



How's that working out for those Arab losers?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians want all of Palestine?
> 
> WOW!


How does it feel to want?

Arab-Moslem squatters wanting all of 'Pal'istan' should be taken seriously by who?

The modern nation of Israel existed when it declared sovereignty and exhibited the characteristics of what typically defines nationhood.

The islamic terrorist syndicates have never done that. The territories occupied by the competing pally terrorist organizations are largely lawless enclaves. A common definition of an enclave is a region that has no control over its territory, a region in which there is little evidence of authority enabled by a population and little evidence of an authority that is able to support its citizens by providing basic public services such as water, sewer and electricity.. Corruption is usually a hallmark of Islamic terrorist enclaves and the pal enclaves are the poster children for fraud and corruption.


----------



## Hollie

​Mother of “Martyred” Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist Muhammad Jahjouh: I Will Be Happy If All My Children and Grandchildren Are Martyred for the Sake of Allah​









						Mother Of 'Martyred' Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist Muhammad Jahjouh: I Will Be Happy If All My Children And Grandchildren Are Martyred For The Sake Of Allah
					

The mother of a "martyred" Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist named Muhammad Jahjouh said in an April 16, 2022 intervie...




					www.memri.org
				








Lovely, lovely people.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Genetic Diversity
⁜→ Toddsterpatriot, et al,
.
*QUESTIONs*:  
Is there developing a significant and noticeable long-term impact of the losses suffered in lengthy combat actions (*between cultures*) on the genetic level (*the ability to pass positive characteristics on to the next generation*)?  

Does the constant loss of the Arab Palestinian's best people (*those with the most desirable qualities*) from the general population pool, result in the gradual shift in the remainder of the general population from more desirable → to → least desirable qualities and characteristics? 
.


Toddsterpatriot said:


> How's that working out for those Arab losers?


*(COMMENT)*
.
Is there a discussion to be had pertaining to the outcome of each major engagement that strips away the positive, where the best and the brightest of the Arab Palestinians are gradually extinguished?

The outside observer cannot be expected to observe (*over time*) an improvement in the Arab Palestinian ability to understand the moral relativism and the need for greater diversity in the establishment of human relationships neighboring lifestyles, adjacent political sovereignties, and the means by which peace may be achieved and regional stability is maintained WHEN the bravest, intelligent, and the most capable are thinned out from the herd.  I have not seen any significant movement or change in the demands made by the Arab Palestinians since the December 2012 step toward the "State of Palestine."  If you compare the basic position, as articulated by the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of today, with the basic demands of the Palestine Liberations Organization (PLO) made a decade ago, there has been no positive shift in the direction of peace.  In fact, the political position of the Arab Palestinians has become worse.  As the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) reinforces its approach through the rocket and asymmetric attacks, the cost inflicted by HoAP begins to cost many times more than any advantage they might have gained. 
.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: Genetic Diversity
> ⁜→ Toddsterpatriot, et al,
> .
> *QUESTIONs*:
> Is there developing a significant and noticeable long-term impact of the losses suffered in lengthy combat actions (*between cultures*) on the genetic level (*the ability to pass positive characteristics on to the next generation*)?
> 
> Does the constant loss of the Arab Palestinian's best people (*those with the most desirable qualities*) from the general population pool, result in the gradual shift in the remainder of the general population from more desirable → to → least desirable qualities and characteristics?
> .
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Is there a discussion to be had pertaining to the outcome of each major engagement that strips away the positive, where the best and the brightest of the Arab Palestinians are gradually extinguished?
> 
> The outside observer cannot be expected to observe (*over time*) an improvement in the Arab Palestinian ability to understand the moral relativism and the need for greater diversity in the establishment of human relationships neighboring lifestyles, adjacent political sovereignties, and the means by which peace may be achieved and regional stability is maintained WHEN the bravest, intelligent, and the most capable are thinned out from the herd.  I have not seen any significant movement or change in the demands made by the Arab Palestinians since the December 2012 step toward the "State of Palestine."  If you compare the basic position, as articulated by the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of today, with the basic demands of the Palestine Liberations Organization (PLO) made a decade ago, there has been no positive shift in the direction of peace.  In fact, the political position of the Arab Palestinians has become worse.  As the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) reinforces its approach through the rocket and asymmetric attacks, the cost inflicted by HoAP begins to cost many times more than any advantage they might have gained.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R



This could roll into a discussion of Darwinian evolution, social engineering and Book VII of Plato's Republic, the "Allegory of the Cave".


----------



## Hollie

There's something really twisted and perverse about Abbas sending condolences to the family of an Islamic terrorist killer. The killer was groomed from an early age to be among the children / young adults who throw their lives away so that Abbas and his Fatah cronies and Hamas along with their child soldiers can amass personal fortunes from stolen welfare contributions. 











						Abbas sent condolences to family of Tel Aviv terrorist who murdered 3 | PMW Analysis
					

Murderous Tel Aviv terror attack was in “defense of the land of Palestine and the people’s honor” and “for the sake of Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque” – Fatah official




					palwatch.org
				





Abbas sent condolences to family of Tel Aviv terrorist who murdered 
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Apr 25, 2022

Murderous Tel Aviv terror attack was in “defense of the land of Palestine and the people’s honor” and “for the sake of Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque” – Fatah official

The terrorist who murdered 3 Israelis at a bar in Tel Aviv and another Palestinian who shot at Israeli forces were both “defending the land of Palestine and the people’s honor” according to the Fatah Movement, which added that their terror was “for the sake of Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Netflix appears to enjoy immense success in Israel, it has not stopped one of the streaming giant’s senior executives from going on an anti-Israel and anti-Zionist tirade on social media, labeling the Jewish state as "violent, racist, colonial and apartheid".

In her latest post aimed at the Jewish state, Production Finance Executive at Netflix, Hala Gabriel, talks about the "dangers" of supporting Israel, which she says was founded “under the auspice and claim that Russians and Europeans may have had some presence in Palestine thousands of years ago”.

In addition to her prominent position at Netflix, Gabriel - herself is a Palestinian who grew up in Syria and later in America - is also credited as a production supervisor and production accountant for several major studios in Los Angeles, California.

(full article online)









						'Racist, colonial, apartheid': Senior Netflix executive in anti-Israel tirade on Twitter
					

Netflix Production Finance Executive Hala Gabriel has repeatedly come out against the 'Zionist State of Israel' on social media despite her high-profile post; adds the Jewish State was founded thanks to 'endless Zionist land theft'




					www.ynetnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian Media Watch has video of an imam, broadcasting a Ramadan prayer live from El-Bireh near Ramallah, wishing to see the extermination of "evil Jews."






Not only that, but anyone who supports them should be killed by merciful Allah as well.




Here's the video:





> “Grant us victory over the infidels... Allah, delight us with the conquest and liberation of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Allah, make us among the first to enter, the conquerors, the worshippers, and those calling out ‘Allahu Akbar’ inside [the mosque] to You, Master of the Universe. *Allah, delight us with the extermination of the evil Jews, O Master of the Universe, and [the extermination] of their hypocritical supporters who have evil in their hearts.*”





> (vide video online)











						Palestinian TV broadcasts desire to see all Jews - and their supporters - exterminated
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*No goons - no clashes.*


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Love of land over life ]


----------



## Hollie

I don't expect the UN will do anything but make excuses for Arabs-Moslems smuggling weapons, explosives and ammunition into their "holy places". It's a pattern of behavior for moslems to use mosques as places of planning for gee-had attacks. 











						'Palestinian terrorists' to blame for Temple violence, Erdan tells UNSC
					

"The only ones, the only ones, breaking the status quo on the Temple Mount are the Palestinian terror groups inflaming the holy sites," said Israel's Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan.




					www.google.com
				




“Palestinian terrorists” are responsible for the violent riots on the Temple Mount during the last weeks, Israel’s Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan told the United Nations Security Council in New York on Monday.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I don't expect the UN will do anything but make excuses for Arabs-Moslems smuggling weapons, explosives and ammunition into their "holy places". It's a pattern of behavior for moslems to use mosques as places of planning for gee-had attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Palestinian terrorists' to blame for Temple violence, Erdan tells UNSC
> 
> 
> "The only ones, the only ones, breaking the status quo on the Temple Mount are the Palestinian terror groups inflaming the holy sites," said Israel's Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Palestinian terrorists” are responsible for the violent riots on the Temple Mount during the last weeks, Israel’s Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan told the United Nations Security Council in New York on Monday.


Hollie, you little minx, how the fuck are you?


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Genetic Diversity
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:  I see this as a public policy failure in a defined area.


P F Tinmore said:


> *No goons - no clashes.*


*(COMMENT)*

Success and the reduction of violence at the territorial and local levels is critically dependent on the cooperation of the communities and the established consortium (_*“Political decision-makers and senior civil servants"*_).  If the unification of any element intentionally corrupts the Policing Policy and the abilities of the emergency and police services nay community-level program will simply collapse.  And the consortium will blame the Israel police in the aftermath of incited Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Failure at any point (*causing lawlessness*) is a by-product in wake of the lack of cooperation by all levels of the Arab Palestinians consortium concerned with the authority of the legitimate executive having the power to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety while respecting the agreed-upon system of rights (_*the International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights*_) unless absolutely prevented by the consortium.

*IF* the consortium, as "P F Tinmore" implies, can turn off the hostile conduct when no law enforcement is present, *THEN* the consortium has the influence to turn off hostile activity at any point in time.  This tells the outside observer that there is violence as an outcome of the discretion of the consortium (_*“Political decision-makers and senior civil servants"*_).  The violence and hostile behaviors of the Arab Palestinians erupt at the discretion of community leaders through incitement by the consortium.

The presence of the Israeli Civil Police is NOT the trigger for violence.  The trigger is in the hands of the consortium.  The consortium DOES NOT want peace and security.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: Genetic Diversity
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:  I see this as a public policy failure in a defined area.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Success and the reduction of violence at the territorial and local levels is critically dependent on the cooperation of the communities and the established consortium (_*“Political decision-makers and senior civil servants"*_).  If the unification of any element intentionally corrupts the Policing Policy and the abilities of the emergency and police services nay community-level program will simply collapse.  And the consortium will blame the Israel police in the aftermath of incited Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Failure at any point (*causing lawlessness*) is a by-product in wake of the lack of cooperation by all levels of the Arab Palestinians consortium concerned with the authority of the legitimate executive having the power to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety while respecting the agreed-upon system of rights (_*the International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights*_) unless absolutely prevented by the consortium.
> 
> *IF* the consortium, as "P F Tinmore" implies, can turn off the hostile conduct when no law enforcement is present, *THEN* the consortium has the influence to turn off hostile activity at any point in time.  This tells the outside observer that there is violence as an outcome of the discretion of the consortium (_*“Political decision-makers and senior civil servants"*_).  The violence and hostile behaviors of the Arab Palestinians erupt at the discretion of community leaders through incitement by the consortium.
> 
> The presence of the Israeli Civil Police is NOT the trigger for violence.  The trigger is in the hands of the consortium.  The consortium DOES NOT want peace and security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


All of the Palestinian's actions are a response the Israel's aggression.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Sense of Time
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:



P F Tinmore said:


> All of the Palestinian's actions are a response the Israel's aggression.


*(COMMENT)*
.
Within the operational theater of the territory - I have to wonder *what, when, and where* your statement ("Israel's aggression") applies?  Specifically, what was the "Act of Aggression?"  *Who* is the complainant?  In the Act of Aggression, who did the Israel attack? 
.




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> All of the Palestinian's actions are a response the Israel's aggression.


That's another of the slogans you dump into most threads. The pally terrorists on the other hand tell a different story. They tell us with regularity their attacks are religiously motivated.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: Sense of Time
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> Within the operational theater of the territory - I have to wonder *what, when, and where* your statement ("Israel's aggression") applies?  Specifically, what was the "Act of Aggression?"  *Who* is the complainant?  In the Act of Aggression, who did the Israel attack?
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.

This process requires military force against the civilian population.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> This process requires military force against the civilian population.


Israel is NOT a settler colonial project.  Stop lying.
Israel is the rebuilding of the Jewish homeland ON Jewish land.

It was never a goal to make the Arabs leave Palestine.  You are lying.

Jews would never have hired thousands of Arabs since before the Mandate,  as they still do, if their goal had been for there to be fewer to no Arabs on the land.

Stop spreading lies about Jews and Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel is NOT a settler colonial project.  Stop lying.
> Israel is the rebuilding of the Jewish homeland ON Jewish land.
> 
> It was never a goal to make the Arabs leave Palestine.  You are lying.
> 
> Jews would never have hired thousands of Arabs since before the Mandate,  as they still do, if their goal had been for there to be fewer to no Arabs on the land.
> 
> Stop spreading lies about Jews and Israel.





Sixties Fan said:


> Israel is the rebuilding of the Jewish homeland ON Jewish land.


So says Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> So says Israel.


What an asinine comment.  Remain one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> This process requires military force against the civilian population.


First, I think most here realize that you're parroting slogans.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.



That's horrible!
How much progress have they made?
How many "Palestinians" in Israel in 1948?
How many today?


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: HISTORICAL CONCEPT
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE*:  As it is in reality, trying to put meaning to terms used a Century ago by the Allied Supreme Council is hard to do.  This is especially true when changes by member political heads alter the agreements made.  In terms of the post-War Middle East, almost as soon as the Treaty of Sevres was overtaken by events.  It did not actually alter the reality on the ground.  It was barely four years later that the new and improved Treaty was agreed upon and signed.  While the diplomatic effort had some serious kinks in it, it did not have much of an actual impact on the Mandate for Palestine in its application to the territory.  


P F Tinmore said:


> First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> This process requires military force against the civilian population.


*(COMMENT)*
.
The framework and intent of the 1920 San Remo Conference of the Allied Supreme Council authorized the very first key documents that set the tone, parameters, practical application, and the intent the  Principal Allied Powers have agreed on; the Mandate for Palestine.  The first key mandate set by the Allied Powers  was outlined:
​


			
				First Unambiguous Intent said:
			
		

> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for *putting into effect *the declaration originally *made on November 2nd, 1917*, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and *adopted by the said Powers*, in favor of the* establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*, *it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews *in any other country...
> *SOURCE:* *Mandate for Palestine *as it is recorded by the Avalon Project​{/quote]​





			
				First Unambiguous Intent said:
			
		

> Now, typically the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian want to focus on the phrase:
> "*the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"*​


​
Few people understand the "Civil and Religious Rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  What were these "Rights" the Ottoman Empire bestowed upon the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian."  Remembering that the Ottoman Empire had been the sovereign power for hundreds of years.  The Allied Powers also expressed three key applications pertaining to:  The Jewish National Home, Jewish Immigration, citizenship:

◈. political, administrative, and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home​◈. shall facilitate Jewish immigration​◈. shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by  Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​.
I say all this because there was no such thing as a settler-colonial project or "process started before 1948."  Whatever you saw, or think you saw or ever heard of, at the end of the day, the multinational Allied Powers decided it shall be done.  Now if the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian intentionally create such trouble as to cripple the environment and alter the arena such that it becomes smaller and smaller, trouble enriched, and a choking atmosphere for the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian, then that explains the problem.

You need to read the very first intent (◈ _*supra*_) of the Allied Powers.







_Most Respectfully,_
R
[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: HISTORICAL CONCEPT
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *PREFACE*:  As it is in reality, trying to put meaning to terms used a Century ago by the Allied Supreme Council is hard to do.  This is especially true when changes by member political heads alter the agreements made.  In terms of the post-War Middle East, almost as soon as the Treaty of Sevres was overtaken by events.  It did not actually alter the reality on the ground.  It was barely four years later that the new and improved Treaty was agreed upon and signed.  While the diplomatic effort had some serious kinks in it, it did not have much of an actual impact on the Mandate for Palestine in its application to the territory.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> .
> The framework and intent of the 1920 San Remo Conference of the Allied Supreme Council authorized the very first key documents that set the tone, parameters, practical application, and the intent the  Principal Allied Powers have agreed on; the Mandate for Palestine.  The first key mandate set by the Allied Powers  was outlined:
> ​
> 
> ​
> Few people understand the "Civil and Religious Rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  What were these "Rights" the Ottoman Empire bestowed upon the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian."  Remembering that the Ottoman Empire had been the sovereign power for hundreds of years.  The Allied Powers also expressed three key applications pertaining to:  The Jewish National Home, Jewish Immigration, citizenship:
> 
> ◈. political, administrative, and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home​◈. shall facilitate Jewish immigration​◈. shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by  Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​.
> I say all this because there was no such thing as a settler-colonial project or "process started before 1948."  Whatever you saw, or think you saw or ever heard of, at the end of the day, the multinational Allied Powers decided it shall be done.  Now if the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian intentionally create such trouble as to cripple the environment and alter the arena such that it becomes smaller and smaller, trouble enriched, and a choking atmosphere for the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian, then that explains the problem.
> 
> You need to read the very first intent (◈ _*supra*_) of the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


[/QUOTE]
Holy obfuscation, Batman.

How does that address anything in my post? You are just making excuses.


----------



## Hollie

​Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official Muhammad Shalah: Allah Brought The Jews To Palestine So We Can Finish Them Off; Iran Gave Us Weapons While The Arabs Gave Us School Supplies​








						Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official Muhammad Shalah: Allah Brought The Jews To Palestine So We Can Finish Them Off; Iran Gave Us Weapons While The Arabs Gave Us School Supplies
					

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) official Muhammad Shalah said in an April 24, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Is...




					www.memri.org
				






Of course Iran gave you weapons my little gee-had cupcake. Weapons from Iran means dead Sunni Arabs.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Responses to *Posting 22405*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



> Holy obfuscation, Batman.
> 
> How does that address anything in my post? You are just making excuses.



*(COMMENT)*

I broke down each element in your grand accusation and compensatable offensive act.  I addressed them one by one.  I'm not making excuses.  You are using the unsubstantiated complainant to avoid a response.  You could not answer even the simplest of interrogatives.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> _*SUBTOPIC*_: Responses to *Posting 22405*
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I broke down each element in your grand accusation and compensatable offensive act.  I addressed them one by one.  I'm not making excuses.  You are using the unsubstantiated complainant to avoid a response.  You could not answer even the simplest of interrogatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Most Respectfully,_
> R


The UN says that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty. That is what the UN Charter says. That is what international law says.

Whenever I post "without external interference" you post a page of external interference.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The UN says that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination



But not the ability.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Responses to *Posting 22405*
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*PREFACE:  *Most of the time, when participants contribute to this topic, confusion erupts because one participant is speaking to the same "word" but they are speaking to it because of "different  meanings."  Of all the disagreements in this forum topic, these concepts are most confusing.



P F Tinmore said:


> The UN says that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty. That is what the UN Charter says. That is what international law says.
> 
> Whenever I post "without external interference" you post a page of external interference.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> But not the ability.


*(COMMENT)*

*AT THE OUTSET*:  Our friend "Toddsterpatriot" is right on the money.  Actually, he hit the center of the bulls-eye; not just the center of the target.  When we speak of "sovereignty" the tail often expressed is "without external interference," or directly implied.  You cannot have sovereignty if you have external interference.  Sovereignty and the associated Independence actually means that the government in control IS the Supreme Authority (no higher power exists political or otherwise).

The ability, to take any given action over the territory is "*de facto* sovereignty."
The international legal right to do so (*but not necessarily the ability*) is "_*de jure*_ Sovereignty."
In an elevated understanding, there are four types of sovereignty:

Westphalian sovereignty, 
refers to political organization based on the exclusion of external actors from authority structures within a given territory.

domestic sovereignty,
formal organization of political authority within the state
exclusion of external actors from domestic authority structures.
 control and the regulation of transborder movements

interdependence sovereignty
the ability of public authorities to regulate the flow of information, ideas, goods, people, services, or financial activity across the borders of their state.

International Legal Sovereignty
practices associated with mutual recognition

Most of the issues the most propagandized by the anti-israeli and pro-Arab Palestinian Movements revolve around
this type of confusion.  For instance, much of the "apartheid" rhetoric by the anti-israeli and pro-Arab Palestinian Movements are predicated on "Transborder" issues of the variety → domestic sovereignty.  That is agreed upon by the membership in the Charter.  

Every now and then, you will see "P F Tinmore" challenge me on the matter of Israel ruling by the force of arms.  And he will raise the issue of the sovereignty rests with the people.  (*It is a Great Concept but hard to achieve.*)  
International *legal sovereignty* and *Westphalian sovereignty* involve issues of authority and legitimacy, *but not actual control *or the reality happening.  I am not sure that the Arab Palestinians even have any interdependent sovereignty.  The Arab Palestinians are totally dependent on financial contributions or exchanges from external sources.  If the Ramallah and Gaza Governments are totally dependent on Donor Contributions; is that "*external interference*."

When we speak of Sovereignty, especially in relations with governments like that of Ramallah and Gaza, should all aid be cut-off in order to divest the potential external influences they create? *(RHETORICAL)*.

Just a few thoughts,




_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## Hollie

For some reason unbeknownst to me, the international community continues to fund the Islamic Death Cult.











						Terrorists are “heroic” and “pioneers” and are given jobs in the PA | PMW Analysis
					

Speaking at a rally the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs told the crowd that the “heroic” terrorists are the “pioneers of the Palestinian people who defend the Palestinian honor and holy sites”




					palwatch.org
				




Terrorists are “heroic” and “pioneers” and are given jobs in the PA
Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Apr 28, 2022

Speaking at a rally to mark “Palestinian Prisoner’s Day,” the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr told the crowd that the “heroic” terrorists - many of whom are murderers and mass murderers - are the “pioneers of the Palestinian people who defend the Palestinian honor and holy sites”:

“Yesterday [April 17, 2022] hundreds of civilians participated in a rally to mark Palestinian Prisoner’s Day at Al-Manara Square in central Ramallah…

Director of [PLO] Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr said in his speech during the rally that the heroic prisoners are the pioneers of our people, and that they are defending our honor and our holy sites…”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, April 18, 2022]


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) official Muhammad Shalah said in an April 24, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad – Gaza) that Palestine is unquestionably Palestinian land, and that the Jews have no historical claim to it. He also said that Allah brought the Jews to Palestine for the Palestinians to "finish them off. In addition, he said that the PIJ is part of the Iran-backed "resistance axis" and that while Iran supplied the Palestinians with rockets and weapons, the Arabs only gave them school supplies. Muhammad Shalah is the brother of the former leader of the Islamic Jihad, Ramadan Abdullah Shalah who died in 2020._

(full article online)









						Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official Muhammad Shalah: Allah Brought The Jews To Palestine So We Can Finish Them Off; Iran Gave Us Weapons While The Arabs Gave Us School Supplies
					






					www.memri.org


----------



## Hollie

It's refreshing to read about the eventual dissolution of UNRWA. The bloated agency long ago became a black hole of greed and corruption, 











						Time To Put The Skids On UNRWA
					

Palestinian leaders reacted with dismay to UNWRA’s plan claiming it could well lead to UNWRA’s eventual dissolution. And well they should be concerned.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




Palestinian leaders reacted with dismay to UNWRA’s plan claiming it could well lead to UNWRA’s eventual dissolution. And well they should be concerned. They stand to lose a principal prop for their continuing in power. But for the rest of us there are compelling reasons to welcome UNWRA’s demise. It continues as one of the more powerful reasons that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has not been peacefully resolved.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine Brave Kids Status ||Palestine Viral video|| Bra Dushman bna Phirta hai ||#SavePalestine✌​


----------



## Hollie

The pals lament those days of bussing kids to the border gee-had. 











						Telling the Truth About Palestinian Child Soldiers
					

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. There are many things about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict …




					www.algemeiner.com
				





Telling the Truth About Palestinian Child Soldiers​​



Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter.

There are many things about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that the media focuses on, and almost all are bad about Israel. However, a few things that really should be focused on tend to be swept under the rug and ignored. Now, however, a new advocacy campaign intends to spotlight one of those things: Palestinian child soldiers.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sama' Abdulhadi: The Palestinian techno queen blasting around the globe​


----------



## Hollie

The pally clown show is a wonder to behold. 







__





						Terror groups laud Ariel 'heroic operation,' call for escalating attacks
					





					www.msn.com
				




During the rallies, thousands of Hamas supporters chanted slogans in support of Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif and the group’s leader in the Gaza Strip, Yayha Sinwar. The demonstrators also called on Hamas to bomb Tel Aviv and “blow up the heads of the Zionists.”

But a leaflet distributed by Fatah activists in east Jerusalem on Friday criticized the worshippers for raising Hamas flags at the holy site. The leaflet also attacked the worshippers for chanting slogans against Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sama' Abdulhadi: The Palestinian techno queen blasting around the globe​



Her ankles are exposed.
Beat her!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Muslim supremacy at its best.  Threaten, threaten, threaten.  Like they ever cared about Jerusalem ]

The head of Gaza’s ruling Hamas terrorist organization, Yahya Sinwar, has threatened to attack synagogues around the world if Israel “violates” the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Speaking on Saturday night in a speech that lasted more than an hour, Sinwar said, “Our people must prepare for a great battle if the occupation does not cease its aggression against the Al Aqsa Mosque. Violating Al Aqsa and Jerusalem means a regional, religious war,” he said.

(full article online)










						Hamas Leader Threatens to Attack Synagogues Abroad Over Al Aqsa Mosque
					

Sinwar also threatened to launch another war against Israel over "assaults on Al Aqsa" and called on Arabs to prepare themselves.




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

After a two-year hiatus in the yearly hate-fest against Israel and America – due to the COVID-19 pandemic – attendees were especially itching to spew vitriol on the one hand and champion the Palestinians on the other.

"The [events] are a symbol of the unity of the Islamic ummah [nation], and God willing it will lead to the destruction of the Zionist regime," Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi said in an interview with his state-run television station.


Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps commander Hossein Salami expressed a similar sentiment about the fate of the State of Israel.
------
Lebanon-based Hezbollah, too, praised the bloodshed in Ariel, which came mere hours after Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah gave a televised address in which he incited Palestinians to step up their "lone-wolf" attacks that Israel is hard-pressed to thwart.

The beauty of such acts, he said, is that they don't involve a lot of planning or infrastructure. "All they require is an individual with a pistol or machine gun – or a knife from his kitchen."

What a lovely holiday message for Muslims about to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, the end of Ramadan, with lots of food, festivities and gift-giving. Palestinians in Ramallah and Gaza are already gearing up for the occasion by baking sweets to distribute when the next Jews are gunned down or stabbed to death.

------
The Arab citizens of Israel who identify with them have been busy, as well, removing Israeli flags from poles along highways in the Galilee and replacing them with Palestinian ones. Like their counterparts in Iran, Gaza, Lebanon and the rest of the Middle East, they are preparing for Israel's seventy-fourth birthday this week by plotting its demise.

(full article online)





__





						Loading…
					





					www.israelhayom.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The fasting, binging and gorging holy month of Islamic terrorism takes on the expected absurdity. Binging and gorging is accompanied by celebrating the death of children. 











						PA PM: Mother of 6 murderers is “awe-inspiring” | PMW Analysis
					

PA uses Ramadan as an excuse to glorify terror




					palwatch.org
				




PA PM: Mother of 6 murderers is “awe-inspiring”​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | May 1, 2022

*PA TV to terror-mom: “You are a school for all the mothers”*​
*PA uses Ramadan as an excuse to glorify terror*​
After a day of fasting during the month of Ramadan, Muslims around the world enjoy a fast-breaking meal called an “iftar”. For the Palestinian Authority, even this festive meal is just another opportunity to glorify terror and declare its devotion to the terrorist prisoners.
One such event was the visit of none less than the PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh and Ramallah District Governor Laila Ghannam with terror mom Latifa Abu Hmeid, who is the mother of 6 murderers – 5 serving life sentences and 1 killed during an attempted arrest. At the fast-breaking mail Shtayyeh and Ghannam shared with Abu Hmeid, Shtayyeh conveyed the special blessings of PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas:







> “Yesterday [April 10, 2022, PA] Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh participated in the [Ramadan] fast-breaking meal with female fighter Um Nasser Abu Hmeid (i.e., mother of terrorists responsible for at least 10 murders; see note below) at her home in Ramallah, in the presence of Ramallah and El-Bireh District Governor Laila Ghannam…





> The prime minister conveyed the blessings of [PA] President Mahmoud Abbas to Um Nasser. He again emphasized that the prisoners’ cause and making every effort to release them all from the occupation’s prisons will remain at the top of the priorities of the [PA] leadership and government.
> Shtayyeh saluted Um Nasser for her resolve and her awe-inspiring standing as a mother who represents all the mothers of the prisoners, as she is defending our prisoners in the occupation’s prison and waving their flag in our consciousness and in our hearts.”





> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, April 11, 2022]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Huwaida for Congress​


----------



## Hollie

Very odd that islamists have no issue using mosques for gee-had war planning and material storage.












						Hamas’s Sinwar threatens a ‘regional, religious war’ if Al-Aqsa is again ‘violated’
					

Terror group's Gaza chief vows attacks on 'thousands of synagogues' worldwide if police raid Al-Aqsa Mosque; urges West Bank Palestinians, Arab Israelis to commit terror attacks




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





Hamas’s Sinwar threatens a ‘regional, religious war’ if Al-Aqsa is again ‘violated’​Terror group’s Gaza chief vows attacks on ‘thousands of synagogues’ worldwide if police raid Al-Aqsa Mosque; urges West Bank Palestinians, Arab Israelis to commit terror attacks​By AARON BOXERMAN30 April 2022, 8:42 pmUpdated at 9:26 pm


----------



## Hollie

The pals are being sidelined by the Islamic world. Arabs are moving beyond the forever pit of want and need that is pally’dom. 












						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah: Erdoğan Welcomes Israel's Satan President And Normalizes Relation With Israel – Yet Says This Doesn't Affect His Position On Jerusalem – He's A Liar!
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Yousef Makharzah said in an April 22, 2022 sermon that was posted on the Youtube channel of ...




					www.memri.org
				





Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah: Erdoğan Welcomes Israel's Satan President And Normalizes Relation With Israel – Yet Says This Doesn't Affect His Position On Jerusalem – He's A Liar!​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians’ $1.6 Billion UN Agency on the Rocks | United with Israel
					

Palestinians would rather have diminished support from the UNRWA than better services from other UN agencies. Why?




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Hollie

This is the state of affairs so much of the world lives in. The constant, looming threat of Islamic terrorist attacks. 








__





						Israeli forces arrest 6 terrorism suspects, seize weapons
					





					www.msn.com
				





IDF, Shin Bet and Border Police troops arrested six terrorism suspects in Hizma, Beit Ummar and Ni'lin on Monday, seizing an M16 and other weapons, according to the IDF Spokesperson's Unit.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



He resorts to cannibalism to smear Jews
then calls people who take him seriously sinister.

The result of calling "poetry" the same cause of mass
degeneration in the entire  Middle East and North Africa.









						A Note on Arabic Literacy and Translation - ALTA Language Services
					

Greece annually translates five times more books from English than the entire Arab world, and currently, 65 million Arab adults are illiterate. These



					www.altalang.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Adley*

Say No To Censorship: Let's Go Behind The Headlines​


----------



## Hollie

Another sign of an evolving Middle East. I think the last two decades have been instrumental in re-shaping grudging alliances. The Sunni Arabs have had to acknowledge a more radical Shia Iran and Israel offers too many options for the Sunni to ignore. 











						When will Israeli-Saudi ties go public? - opinion
					

For several years, extensive behind-the-scenes diplomatic and intelligence cooperation between Israel and Saudi Arabia has been an open secret.




					m.jpost.com
				





Israel and Saudi Arabia have no diplomatic relations with each other – a situation that normally means hostility between nations. Yet on March 3, 2022, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) said: “We don’t look at Israel as an enemy.”


----------



## Hollie

At some point one has to understand that you deal with sociopaths from a position of strength and don't compromise on your security. 













						Senior PA official Rajoub praises terrorists and murderers: “We all need to bow our heads before their greatness” | PMW Analysis
					

“We are proud of you… all the blessings to our heroic prisoners” – PA TV




					palwatch.org
				




Senior PA official Rajoub praises terrorists and murderers: “We all need to bow our heads before their greatness”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 3, 2022
*Official PA media on imprisoned terrorists:*​
*“We are proud of you… all the blessings to our heroic prisoners” – PA TV*​
*“The [PA] leadership will not abandon a single one of their rights… It will continue to adhere to defending them, because they are symbols of the national struggle, lights of freedom, and beacons of liberation, peace, and justice” – column in PA daily*​
Whether it is the Palestinian annual Prisoner’s Day or not, Palestinian Authority leaders need no special occasion to praise its imprisoned terrorists and murderers. Long time terror supporter and Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub reminded Palestinians that the “brave prisoners” – among them killers, bomb makers, and planners of numerous murderous attacks – deserve that all Palestinians “bow their heads before their greatness”:


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Hamas Flag Ripped Down by Fed Up Palestinian | United with Israel
					

Hamas terrorizes Israelis and brutalizes Palestinians, some of whom have had enough.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Israel today mourns its fallen soldiers and those killed in terror attacks, teenagers in the PA are announcing their desire to bring about their own deaths as Martyrs for Allah– in an attack against Israelis.

Encouraged by the PA’s endorsement of terror, praise for terrorists, and calls for “popular resistance” - the PA euphemism for terror - Palestinian teens have expressed how they actively seek a violent Martyrdom-death confronting Israel, “defending Palestine.”

The father of 17-year-old Shukat Abed, who was recently killed while participating in violent riots in Kafr Dan north of Jenin, told official PA TV at his son’s funeral that his son had expressed his wish to become a “Martyr.” A few days before his death, Shukat Abed had argued that since he and his cousins were so many in number, “one of them needed to be a Martyr.” He had notified his mother that she should “wrap him in shrouds,” and when taking a selfie, he indicated that the family would use the photo when he would soon die as a Martyr:












(full article online)









						Palestinian teens seek death for Palestine following the PA’s calls | PMW Analysis
					

Teenager vows: “We will fight until the last Palestinian child [in the village] dies!”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Does Russia has rights to anything in Israel, especially Jerusalem?  Russia is very anti Israel because it did not agree to become a Communist country.  On the other hand, the Arabs........can thank the Russians for the Palestinian nationality.  ]

The discussions will be focused on recent developments in Jerusalem, including Hamas demands regarding the Temple Mount, and the terror group’s interest in strengthening ties with Moscow.

Both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas have not publicly condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine, likely due to the fact that they have historically enjoyed warmer ties with Moscow than with the U.S.

Unlike the U.S., UK and the European Union, Russia has not classified Hamas as a terrorist organization.
Since the 2006 Palestinian elections that brought the terror group to power in the Gaza Strip, Hamas representatives have visited Russia a staggering 14 times, as recently as December 2021.


(full article online)









						Hamas delegation arrives in Moscow to discuss Temple Mount demands | World Israel News
					

Senior officials from terror group to discuss Jerusalem tensions with Russian Foreign Ministry representatives.




					worldisraelnews.com


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. Could this mean the Mullah'bucks welfare cash to the pally is in Jeopardy?











						In Twist, Iranians Chant ‘Death to Palestine’ to Protest Regime
					

In an unusual twist, Iranians were filmed chanting "Death to Palestine" in protests in the southern Iranian city of Sirjan in recent days.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Watch: In Twist, Iranians Chant ‘Death to Palestine’ to Protest Regime​





ATTA KENARE/AFP via Getty Images
DEBORAH BRAND4 May 202211
2:06
In an unusual twist, Iranians were filmed chanting “Death to Palestine” in protests in the southern Iranian city of Sirjan in recent days, the _Jerusalem Post_ reported on Wednesday.


----------



## Hollie

Well, we here in the Great Satan and across the international community share some responsibility for funding this Cult. 













						Palestinian teens seek death for Palestine following the PA’s calls | PMW Analysis
					

Teenager vows: “We will fight until the last Palestinian child [in the village] dies!”




					palwatch.org
				




Palestinian teens seek death for Palestine following the PA’s calls​Itamar Marcus  | May 4, 2022

*Teenager vows: “We will fight until the last Palestinian child [in the village] dies!”*​
*Teen killed during violent riots sought death: “Mom… My cousins and I… One of us needs to be a Martyr”*​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Why the surprise, when the leaders spend money on weapons and incitement, pay for slay, rather than creating a viable infrastructure ?  ]

The International Monetary Fund last week issued a report on the economic situation in the “West Bank and Gaza,” suggesting “the Palestinian economy is enduring a fiscal crisis and the economic outlook is
dire.”

The report, *available for downloading here*, says that repeated political and security shocks, and the combination of the COVID-19 pandemic and spending priorities, have driven deficits in the PA and Gaza to unprecedented levels.





			https://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye-on-palestine/imf-report-pa-gaza-economy-in-dire-condition-as-political-security-situation-remains-fraught/2022/05/04/


----------



## Hollie

This is the really tragic result of the international community funding an enclave of Islamic terrorist sociopaths.











						Israeli police hunt two Palestinian attackers after fatal stabbings
					

Three people were killed and four wounded in the town of Elad.




					www.dailyecho.co.uk
				




A pair of Palestinian attackers went on a stabbing rampage in a town near Tel Aviv killing at least three people and wounding four others before fleeing in a vehicle, Israeli authorities said.

Police launched a massive search for the killers, setting up road blocks and dispatching a helicopter. The stabbing, coming on Israel’s Independence Day, was the latest in a string of deadly attacks in Israeli cities in recent weeks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians Film War in Gaza: ‘So They Know We Existed’ | NYT​

Stay or Leave? Southern Israel, After the Rockets | NYT​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who Is Rep. Rashida Tlaib, Democrat Giving Progressive Response To SOTU?​


----------



## Hollie

It's something of a bad joke that Abbas claims to 'condemn' the islamic terrorist attacks in Elad when Abbas and the PA spend their waking moments encouraging these attacks. 














						PA leader Abbas condemns Elad terror attack; Israel extends West Bank, Gaza closure
					

After Elad attack, closure on Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza extended until Sunday; Defense Minister Benny Gantz vows Israel will exact 'price for terror attacks'




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




PA leader Abbas condemns Elad terror attack; Israel extends West Bank, Gaza closure​After Elad attack, closure on Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza extended until Sunday; Defense Minister Benny Gantz vows Israel will exact ‘price for terror attacks’​


----------



## Hollie

I'm curious to see where the Canadian government will settle on this. The far left Trudeau government probably had no issue with this Islamic terrorist in their midst, despite what seems are obvious connections to pally Islamic terrorist syndicates. 







			Controversy in Canada over resident's alleged Palestinian terrorism ties
		


The status of a man living in Canada alleged to be a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorist organization has become the topic of concern for the Canadian Jewish community and the subject of debate in the Canadian Senate after an exposé by The National Post.

Khalid Barakat, who resides in Vancouver, has been named by Israeli intelligence services as a leader of the PFLP, the _Post’s_ Terry Glavin reported. Barakat has also been described as such by Palestinian news outlets, and at times, on the PFLP website. Supporters assert that he is a maligned Palestinian rights activist.

“Khalid Barakat has been barred from the United States, he has been barred from Germany, yet the Trudeau government still allows this individual to remain in Canada, despite a Canadian law that forbids any individual with connections to terrorist organizations from entering our country or receiving Canadian Citizenship,” said Sen. Leo Housakos in a debate with Sen. Marc Gold, the representative of the government in the Senate. “Why does your government allow him to remain in the country?”


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They were killing Jews before the Mandate for Palestine, when they were only Arabs, they continue to kill Jews under the new identity of Palestinians.  Same cause.  Jews have no land.  Jews have no rights.  
They can do whatever they want to do with and to Jews ]







The grandfather of one of the alleged terrorists who murdered three Jews yesterday with an axe describes his grandson as having "high morals."

The man said that his grandson, Subhi Emad Subhi Abu Shqeir, does not belong to any organization, and that he is religiously committed and has good relations with all the residents of the village. He said that he worked as an electrician in Elad.

The grandfather then justified the murders, saying that while his grandson did not have any political inclinations, he, "like any Palestinian under occupation, cannot bear the pressures and continuous aggression against Al-Aqsa and the Palestinian people."

He clearly does not see any contradiction between being murdering Jews and having "high morals." 

What this means is that the steady diet of incitement from the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Palestinian media has murderous consequences. Jews show infinitely more respect for the Temple Mount than Palestinians do, but constant incitement that Jews peacefully touring the area are "storming" and "desecrating Al Aqsa" has a cumulative effect that can result in murder.










						Grandfather says Elad killer has "high morals"
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Author, Susan Abulhawa​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Author, Susan Abulhawa​


[ Why in the world would the author above write about something she does not know about?]

Susan Abulhawa mocks, distorts and destroys Palestinian legacy in the Triangle.​








						Susan Abulhawa mocks, distorts and destroys Palestinian legacy in the Triangle. - The Almond Tree
					

For an accurate depiction of a Palestinian boy’s life growing up in Israel, I highly recommend The Almond Tree. Susan Abulhawa's negative review of The Almond Tree stands alone in a sea of praise.




					thealmondtreebook.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Flags V Guns


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I suppose the German government dedcided that Ramadan being the holy month of Pally riots and killing was not the entitlement Pallys thought it was. 












						Germany: Berlin temporarily bans pro-Palestine protests, citing 'public interest'
					

In an extraordinary move, authorities say antisemitic statements at previous rallies are enough to ban future ones




					www.middleeasteye.net
				




German police in Berlin have banned all pro-Palestinian demonstrations until 2 May, citing antisemitic statements made by some protesters during recent protests. 

Following two years of pandemic-related restrictions, Sunday will see the return of Berlin’s May Day celebrations.

At least 15 separate demonstrations are scheduled for the comeback events. In the past, protests like these have drawn tens of thousands of people, with an atmosphere somewhere between a street party and a full-blown riot.

Yet, in an unprecedented move, police have banned all pro-Palestinian protests until 2 May.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Pally Islamic terrorist syndicates are in a kerfuffle about their UN Welfare Entitlement Program finally being dismantled. 













						By redefining UNRWA, Washington hopes to remove Palestinian refugees from the political equation
					

Any attempts to cancel or redefine UNRWA’s mission will pose a serious, if not an unprecedented, challenge for Palestinians.




					mondoweiss.net
				




Palestinians are justifiably worried that the mandate granted to the United Nations Agency for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA, might be coming to an end. UNRWA’s mission, which has been in effect since 1949, has done more than provide urgent aid and support to millions of refugees. It was also a political platform that protected and preserved the rights of several generations of Palestinians. 

Though UNRWA was not established as a political or legal platform per se, the context of its mandate was largely political, since Palestinians became refugees as a result of military and political events – the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people by Israel and the latter’s refusal to respect the Right of Return for Palestinians as enshrined in UN resolution 194 (III) of December 11, 1948.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Khaled Al-Batsh, member of Islamic Jihad's "political bureau," said, “The assassination of any of the leaders of the resistance, led by Commander Al-Sinwar, will open the gates of hell to the enemy."

 Yawn.

2017 was the last time I listed some of the threats of Palestinians to open the gates of hell if Israel (or the US, or UNRWA) does something they don't like. All of them have one thing in common: nothing happened.

Since then....

Later in 2017, Hamas warned that Trump recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's' capital would "open the gates of hell."

In 2019, Jordan warned that the Trump peace plan would "open the gates of hell."

Also that year, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - which is linked to the six NGOs that are being supported by international human rights organizations - warned that they would "open the gates of hell" if the murderer of Rina Shnerb was harmed.

In December 2019, after Israel assassinated Islamic Jihad leader Baha Abu Al-Ata , the group said "Israel had opened the gates of hell."

In 2020, Palestinian factions warned that the US "opened the gates of hell" by assassinating Qassem Soleimani.

In March, Hamas warned that anything Israel does in Jerusalem will "open the gates of hell."

Of course Israel should assassinate Sinwar. He is directly inciting murders and is taking responsibility for them. 

And, as a reminder, in 2019:


> The far-right politician Naftali Bennett has accused Netanyahu of failing against Hamas and said he would instead “open the gates of hell”.


Sounds like a campaign promise to me. 











						Welcome back the "Gates of Hell" amusement park
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Judaism does not exist for extremists Islamics ]

The Palestinian Authority on Sunday rejected Prime Minister Naftali Bennett’s remarks that all decisions regarding the Haram a-Sharif (Temple Mount) and Jerusalem would be made by the government of Israel.


“These statements are misleading and incorrect, as evidenced by the continuous incursions into the Aqsa Mosque and the restrictions on worshipers in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher during the recent holiday celebrations,” said PA presidential spokesperson Nabil Abu Rudaineh, according to a statement published by the Palestinian news agency Wafa.


“East Jerusalem, with its Islamic and Christian holy sites, is the eternal capital of the State of Palestine in accordance with international legitimacy resolutions, the latest of which was Resolution No. 2334, which affirmed that East Jerusalem is an integral part of the occupied Palestinian territories, and that all forms of settlement are illegal in all Palestinian territories,” Abu Rudaineh said.

-----

“I want to make clear that there are not nor will there be any political considerations when it comes to the war on terror, and of course, all decisions regarding the Temple Mount and Jerusalem will be made by the government of Israel, which is the sovereign in the city, without taking into account any foreign considerations,” Bennett told the cabinet.


“We of course reject any foreign interference in the decisions of the government of Israel. Israel will of course continue to maintain proper respect for all the religions in Jerusalem as we have and will continue to do. United Jerusalem is the capital of only one state, the State of Israel.”

(full article online)









						PA: Sovereignty over Jerusalem, holy sites belongs to ‘Palestine'
					

“East Jerusalem, with its Islamic and Christian holy sites, is the eternal capital of the State of Palestine," said a PA spokesperson.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

Eleven Egyptian soldiers were killed on Saturday in a firefight with militants presumed to be loyal to ISIS.

Naturally, Palestinians are trying to hijack this news and make it about - them. 

Fatah issued a statement saying that it considers the attack "a calculated service in the interest of the racist Zionist settlement occupation regime," saying that the attackers have an "agenda against the brothers in Arab Egypt and its heroic army, and against the Palestinian people in occupied Palestine."

They added that the attack "is a deliberate service to the occupation regime and the Israeli army, and a desperate attempt to break the morale of the Arab Egyptian army."

A member of the Political Bureau of the Islamic Jihad Movement, Khaled al-Batsh, called the attack an "attempt to tamper with Egypt's security and undermine its stability in order to serve the Zionist enemy."

Meanwhile, Hezbollah echoed the same bizarre idea, saying that the attack was meant to "divert attention from Zionist terrorism in Palestine."

What is it called when someone blames everything bad that happens on Jews? I'm sure there is a word for it. 









						Palestinians, believing they are the center of the universe, even try to make the ISIS attack in Egypt about them
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The two Palestinian terrorists who brutally murdered Israelis Ben Yiftah, Yonatan Habakuk, and Boaz Gol on May 5, were arrested today. This means that the Palestinian Authority will now adopt the murderers as PA employees and start paying them a monthly salary. Assuming they live till 80 years old, over their lifetimes, the PA will pay them no less than 6,530,400 shekels ($1,919,909 / €1,820,074), simply as a reward for murdering Jews and being arrested by Israel.







The salaries the PA will pay the terrorists, aged 19 and 20, will start at 1,400 shekels ($450)/month and will increase with time spent in prison to 12,000 shekels (3,859) /month.






While the PA continues to incentivize and reward terrorists, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas issued another one of his mealy-mouthed condemnations “of the killing of Israeli civilians” following the murders on Thursday.

Incapable of simply condemning the brutal murder of Israelis, Abbas repeated his “warnings” about Israeli/Jewish “settlers” using the Palestinian attack to carry out revenge attacks against Palestinians. Almost justifying the murders of the Israelis, Abbas then condemned what he referred to as the “ongoing attacks against our people and its Islamic and Christian holy sites,” which he argued have created an atmosphere of tension and instability”:

(full article online)









						The PA rewards with one hand, condemns with the other | PMW Analysis
					

The two Palestinian terrorists who brutally murdered 3 Israelis, were arrested today. This means that the Palestinian Authority will now adopt the murderers as PA employees and start paying them a monthly salary.




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

NEW! Mnar Adley is the founder of MintPress News, which last week was banned by PayPal -- along with Consortiumnews.com and several independent journalists.
In this discussion, Adley gives larger context of how independent media is facing censorship and repression.


----------



## Hollie

But remember. ''This is not a religious conflict''

Apparently the yet to be created islamist state of pally'land will have an official ''Emir of gee-had'', whatever that is. 

That might be a tough sell to donors of the international welfare community who will be expected to finance the re- named ''islamist state of pally'land,. 











						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Abu Taqi Al-Din Al-Dari At Al-Aqsa Mosque: We Will Have An Islamic State With Its Own Military Industry Under An "Emir Of Jihad"; Nuclear Weapons? We Need Something Stronger
					

On April 24, 2022, a video was uploaded to the Al-Aqsa Call YouTube channel of Palestinian Islamic scholar Abu Taqi Al-D...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Scholar Abu Taqi Al-Din Al-Dari At Al-Aqsa Mosque: We Will Have An Islamic State With Its Own Military Industry Under An "Emir Of Jihad"; Nuclear Weapons? We Need Something Stronger​


----------



## Kondor3

An independent "Palestine"?

An "Emir of Jihad" ?

Never gonna happen.

Silly bastards.


----------



## Hollie

Israel may be preparing to respond in a much more aggressive fashion to islamic terrorist attacks from the various Pally gee-had groups. The last 6 weeks in particular have been deadly for Israelis so this may indicate Israel's "gee-had has consequences" attitude.











						IDF opens largest training drill in Israeli history
					

"Chariots of Fire" is taking place one year after it was postponed and is set to last the entire month.




					m.jpost.com
				




IDF opens largest training drill in Israeli history
By ANNA AHRONHEIM   Published: MAY 9, 2022 17:00
Updated: MAY 9, 2022 19:04


"Chariots of Fire" is taking place one year after it was postponed and is set to last the entire month.

As tensions boil over in the West Bank amid a string of deadly terrorist attacks in Israel, the IDF launched the largest exercise in its history on Sunday.

Thousands of soldiers and reservists will take part in the drill, dubbed “Chariots of Fire,” including the air force, navy and regular and reserve forces.

The four-week drill will simulate a multifront and multidimensional war against Israel’s enemies in the air, at sea, on land and on the cyber front.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah continues to express support for the murder of Israeli civilians as the Palestinian terror wave continues.

On Thursday, two Palestinian terrorists armed with an ax brutally murdered three Israeli civilians in the city of Elad. Between them the three fathers have 16 young children. Yonatan Habakuk was murdered in front of his six-year-old son.






Despite the horrific brutality (or because of it), Fatah spokesman of the Jenin branch Nasri Hamamreh called the murders an “heroic action,” when interviewed on Fatah’s Awdah TV. Also, consistent with Fatah’s presenting all of Israel as “occupied Palestinian land” the spokesman referred to the Israeli city Elad, which is situated within Israel's pre-1967 borders, as a “settlement” on “our Palestinian land.”

Palestinian Media Watch reported that after the murder of 3 civilians in Tel Aviv, Mahmoud Abbas sent condolences to the family of the killed terrorist.

Fatah Spokesman, Jenin branch, Nasri Hamamreh:



> "The occupation (i.e., PA euphemism for Israel) claims that two youths from the Jenin district from the town of Rummanah carried out this heroic action [murder of three civilians with an ax] in the settlement of Elad, on our Palestinian land in the settlement of Elad (Note: Elad is within the pre-1967 Israeli borders).”
> [Fatah’s Awdah TV, May 8, 2022












						Fatah spokesman: Last week’s murder of three civilians is “heroic action” | PMW Analysis
					

Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah continues to express support for the murder of Israeli civilians as the Palestinian terror wave continues.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

Hamas flunky and Iranian Mullah bagman Khalil "Excess Children for the Gee-had" Al-Hayya was taking a long distance approach to Martyrdom and not fearing death. 

Do it for..... the children, Khalil.










						Senior Hamas Official Khalil Al-Hayya In Tehran: The Path To Victory Is Marked By The Blood Of Martyrs; We Do Not Fear Death
					

Senior Hamas official Khalil Al-Hayya said in an April 29, 2022 International Quds Day speech in Tehran, Iran that aired...




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Hamas Official Khalil Al-Hayya In Tehran: The Path To Victory Is Marked By The Blood Of Martyrs; We Do Not Fear Death


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Adley*


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mnar Adley*


She really, really, really.......hates the US and Israel.

This is not the best of Palestinians.

This is the worse.

Lies, incites, denies reality in order to find a way to destroy Israel.

C'mon Mnar !!!!!   Get a brain !!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mnar Adley*


_*MintPress News*_ (_*MPN*_) is an American far-left[1][2][3][4] news website founded and edited by Mnar Adley (née, Muhawesh) which was launched in January 2012.[5] It covers political, economic, foreign affairs and environmental issues. Editorially, _MintPress News_ supports Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia, Iran, and Syria.[6][7] It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia,[8] and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Westernperspective.[9] In their best-known article, _MintPress News_ falsely asserted that the Ghouta chemical attack in Syria was perpetrated by rebel groups rather than by the Syrian Government.[7]

Described as a conspiratorial website,[10][11] _MintPress News_ publishes disinformation and anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, according to researchers at Rutgers University and others.[12] _MintPress News_ was a major media domain that spread disinformation about the White Helmets, a Syrian volunteer organization.[13] A report from New Knowledge includes _MintPress News_ as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"[14][15]and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency.[16]

The source of _MintPress News_'s funding remains unknown.[7] _MintPress News_ is headquartered in Minnesota, United States.





__





						MintPress News - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Where in the world can we find anything like this?  Yes, only amongst Nazis, Fascists and Palestinians ]

A Palestinian storeowner described the phenomenon to Al-Arab, an independent UK Arab news website:



> “‘The demand for this kind of clothing is huge. I think that the reason for this is the situation in Palestine recently, and particularly in Jenin’ …Abu Hamza noted that in 10 days he sold approximately 12,000 shirts or pants that also have the print on them, and that he ordered 12,000 additional units due to ‘the huge demand.’”
> [_Al-Arab_, independent Arab news website (UK), April 22, 2022]


It is not surprising that these shirts are especially popular in Jenin. Most of the terrorist murderers, including those who killed using an M-16 rifle, were from the Jenin region.

_Al-Arab_ further explains:



> “Palestinian and Israeli academics and politicians say that the attacks that Palestinians recently carried out against Israeli targets, which in some of them M-16 weapons were used, ‘have become an inspiring symbol for many young Palestinians, which increases their desire to copy those carrying out [the attacks].’”


Palestinian popular support for these murderers reflects the support coming from the Palestinian leadership. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Fatah leaders, after calling for terror and violence for months, is now expressing open support for these murderers.

The Israeli news site N12 is also reporting that some Israeli Arabs are also wearing the same M-16 T-shirts:



> “Arab workers in well-known [Israeli] supermarkets, students, and young children - were seen wearing the shirt on which the weapon is printed.”
> [N12, May 10, 2022]


The message of the shirts at this time is open support or even admiration for the use of weapons to murder Israelis during the current terror wave. Israelis are naturally outraged at this open terror support by some Israeli Arabs.

(full article online)









						New Palestinian fashion craze: M-16 shirts – celebrating M-16 rifle used to murder 5 Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

The latest fashion craze in the PA areas and among some Israeli Arabs are shirts and pants with an M-16 rifle printed on them.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

From the relative safety and convenience of the nation that affords them opportunities unavailable in the islamic terrorist enclaves they're loathe to live in....










						Poll: Three Quarters of Israel's Arab Citizens Believe Jews Have 'No Right' to the Land
					

An overwhelming majority of Arab Israelis -- 75 percent -- believe Jews have no right to sovereignty in the land of Israel, a poll found.




					www.breitbart.com
				




An overwhelming majority of Arab Israelis — 75 percent — believe Jews have no right to sovereignty in the land of Israel, a poll published Tuesday found.




What a bunch of whining, endlessly complaining, hypocrites.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> _*MintPress News*_ (_*MPN*_) is an American far-left[1][2][3][4] news website founded and edited by Mnar Adley (née, Muhawesh) which was launched in January 2012.[5] It covers political, economic, foreign affairs and environmental issues. Editorially, _MintPress News_ supports Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia, Iran, and Syria.[6][7] It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia,[8] and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Westernperspective.[9] In their best-known article, _MintPress News_ falsely asserted that the Ghouta chemical attack in Syria was perpetrated by rebel groups rather than by the Syrian Government.[7]
> 
> Described as a conspiratorial website,[10][11] _MintPress News_ publishes disinformation and anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, according to researchers at Rutgers University and others.[12] _MintPress News_ was a major media domain that spread disinformation about the White Helmets, a Syrian volunteer organization.[13] A report from New Knowledge includes _MintPress News_ as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"[14][15]and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency.[16]
> 
> The source of _MintPress News_'s funding remains unknown.[7] _MintPress News_ is headquartered in Minnesota, United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MintPress News - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Load of hooey.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey.


Among your best contributions.


----------



## Hollie

Who's surprised?

They celebrate deaths of the child sociopaths they create. 










						New Palestinian fashion craze: M-16 shirts – celebrating M-16 rifle used to murder 5 Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

The latest fashion craze in the PA areas and among some Israeli Arabs are shirts and pants with an M-16 rifle printed on them.




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

The families of these islamic terrorists must be celebrating. The Pally murder for cash syndicate means the families will be rewarded with payments from the Pally welfare fraud enclave. 












						Palestinian terrorists arrested for deadly Elad axe attack, after 60-hour manhunt
					

As’ad Yousef As’ad al-Rifa’i and Subhi Emad Sbeihat captured in forested area near ultra-Orthodox city; video shows assailant confessing to security forces




					www.google.com
				




Palestinian terrorists arrested for deadly Elad axe attack, after 60-hour manhunt

As’ad Yousef As’ad al-Rifa’i and Subhi Emad Sbeihat captured in forested area near ultra-Orthodox city; video shows assailant confessing to security forces


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians :  raised in lies and incitement in order to die for their Generals.  The generals do not even live in Gaza or PA 
When is anyone going to end the slaughter of these poor ignorant Arabs by their own people ?]

A Palestinian man was shot after lunging at Israeli officers in the Old City of Jerusalem on Wednesday evening while shouting “Allahu akbar,” local media reported.

The officers, who were stationed near the Cotton Merchants’ Gate to the Temple Mount, responded by opening fire. The assailant was hit and evacuated to a hospital. No other injuries were reported.

(full article online )









						Palestinian Shot After Charging Israeli Officers While Yelling ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Jerusalem
					

Israeli police officers in the Old city of Jerusalem following a security incident on May 11, 2022. Photo: Israel Police. …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied. 











						Terror attack at Damascus Gate, Israeli thwarts Palestinian infiltration
					

Border Police officer stabbed at Damascus gate, attacker shot * Palestinian attack thwarted in West Bank Tekoa settlement, terrorist killed




					www.jpost.com
				




A terror attack was thwarted in the Tekoa settlement when a resident of the community killed a Palestinian armed with a knife at the doorway of his home.

"There were no casualties in the incident and the army conducting searches in the community," a spokesperson for Tekoa said, adding that the community was still in lockdown.

The chairman of the Tekoa community said that the resident was resourceful and his actions to halt a terrorist at the door to his home were inspiring and prevented a major disaster. Tekoa is located in the Gush Etzion region of the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

I really hope there might be some movement on this. The Great Satan has a pretty good track record at bringing Islamic terrorists to account for their gee-had killings. 













						US Rep. Steube Proposes Bill Holding Jordan Accountable for Refusal to Extradite Terrorist
					

The Roths are calling upon lawmakers from both sides of Congress to support Rep. Steube’s proposed legislation.




					www.jewishpress.com
				




“For almost a decade, King Abdullah II has rejected requests from US officials at the highest levels to hand over the terrorist who faces charges in Washington. She’s wanted for her central role in
the 2001 terrorist attack on a Jerusalem restaurant packed with children”, said Arnold and Frimet Roth, whose daughter, Malki, was one of those murdered.

“Tamimi has proudly admitted to the charges. They have made her an icon among Jordanians and Palestinian Arabs.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

It’s not clear at this stage whether Shtayyeh was successful in persuading the donor countries to resume or increase their financial aid to the Palestinians. The killing of Abu Akleh may significantly contribute to the Palestinians’ diplomatic and media warfare against Israel, but it will not necessarily bring more money into the coffers of the PA.


The Europeans and other Western donors have, at least in the past few years, been exerting heavy pressure on the PA to end the incitement and tone down its rhetoric against Israel.

For now, it’s evident that the pressure has proven to be ineffective.


In fact, it seems that matters have been going in the opposite direction. The voices and messages emanating from Ramallah and the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip have become even more toxic, as evidenced before and during Ramadan.


Allegations that Jewish settlers are “storming” and “desecrating” the Aqsa Mosque during their tours of the Temple Mount are sounded almost every day in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Senior PA and Hamas officials don’t miss an opportunity to accuse Israel of planning to “commit crimes” against one of Islam’s holiest sites, Jerusalem, and the Palestinian people.


Against this backdrop, terrorist attacks were carried out in Beersheba, Bnei Brak, Tel Aviv, Elad and Jerusalem. The attacks, which resulted in the deaths of 19 people, are said to be connected, directly and indirectly, to the tensions at the Temple Mount and Jerusalem.


Yet, just as the tensions and violence appeared to be fading away, the incident involving the popular Al Jazeera journalist took Israel and the Palestinians back to square one. The PA, Hamas and other Palestinian factions and parties are now using the tragedy to further whip up anti-Israel sentiment among the Palestinians.


The protests against the killing of Abu Akleh are likely to continue in the coming days and weeks. The protests, which coincide with the first anniversary of the Israel-Hamas war, could escalate during the Palestinians’ annual commemoration of Nakba Day on May 15 in protest against the establishment of Israel.


The PA is now hoping to turn the tragedy of the reporter into a new version of the incident involving Mohammed al-Durrah, the 12-year-old boy who was killed in the Gaza Strip in 2000 after being caught in a crossfire between the IDF and Palestinian security forces.


The main goal is to increase the international pressure on Israel to halt all its practices in Jerusalem and the West Bank, including construction in the settlements and security measures at the Temple Mount.


The PA’s efforts are directed mainly toward the US and the EU.

(full article online)









						PA is ramping up the 'victims of the Israeli occupation' narrative
					

PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS: Amid the Shireen Abu Akleh battle of blame, Palestinian PM Shtayyeh was in Brussels looking for international aid.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Against this backdrop, terrorist attacks were carried out in Beersheba, Bnei Brak, Tel Aviv, Elad and Jerusalem. The attacks, which resulted in the deaths of 19 people, are said to be connected, directly and indirectly, to the tensions at the Temple Mount and Jerusalem.


So then, why doesn't Israel tone down those tensions?

They pretend to be intelligent. They should be able to think of something.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The killing of Abu Akleh may significantly contribute to the Palestinians’ diplomatic and media warfare against Israel,


Indeed, stupid move by Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> “For almost a decade, King Abdullah II has rejected requests from US officials at the highest levels to hand over the terrorist who faces charges in Washington.


Extraditing Tamimi would violate Jordan's constitution.

You know, that thing that the US and Israel don't give a rat's ass about.


----------



## Hollie

The usual, nonsense claims from the usual, nonsensical "PA official"










						Palestinian Authority Official Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram In West Bank Friday Sermon: The Israeli Occupation’s Actions In Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa Are Heralding A Religious War, Reveal The Zionists' Hatred Of The Muslims
					

Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram, the head of the Shari'a Court of Appeals in Nablus, said in a Friday, May 6, 2022 sermon in the Wes...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Authority Official Dr. Nasser Al-Qaram In West Bank Friday Sermon: The Israeli Occupation’s Actions In Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa Are Heralding A Religious War, Reveal The Zionists' Hatred Of The Muslims


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ben Shapiro DEFENDS Israel’s War Crimes In Attack On Rashida Tlaib​


----------



## Hollie

Good work by the Israeli police. Potential loss of life averted by intercepting a gee-had wannabe.

Likely, just another sociopath groomed in that little slice of Islamic terrorist degeneracy known as the territories occupied by dependents of the UNRWA welfare fraud.











						Armed Palestinian who sought to commit attack arrested near central town — police
					

Officers say they find 19-year-old, who apparently illegally entered Israel, close to Tzur Yitzhak carrying knife and stone




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




An armed 19-year-old Palestinian who allegedly sought to commit a terror attack was arrested on Friday night near the central Israeli town of Tzur Yitzhak, police said.

According to police, the suspect — apparently illegally in Israel — was found to be carrying a knife, a stone, and a letter apparently “indicating his intention to carry out an attack in Israeli territory.”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Sibling rivalry 











						Palestinian gunman dies days after clash with Israeli troops
					

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — A Palestinian gunman who is the brother of a prominent...




					www.sfgate.com
				




TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — A Palestinian gunman who is the brother of a prominent Palestinian militant died Sunday after being critically wounded in clashes with Israeli forces, according to the Israeli hospital where he was being treated.


----------



## Hollie

Another silly Islamic terrorist video that looks like something they stole from the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. 














						Hamas Video Shows Fighters Preparing for Battle in Underground Tunnels, Warns Israel: Death Is Your Destiny If You Enter Gaza
					

The Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, published a video showing Hamas fighters carrying rockets and p...




					www.memri.org
				




Hamas Video Shows Fighters Preparing for Battle in Underground Tunnels, Warns Israel: Death Is Your Destiny If You Enter Gaza​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

With the Abbas Islamic terrorist syndicate bring funded by western donors, there's no reason for him to stop payments to the terrorist minions. 











						Palestinian President Abbas Vows to Continue Paying Convicted Terrorists
					

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said his government will continue to pay monthly stipends to convicted terrorists and their families.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Sunday vowed his government will continue to pay monthly stipends to convicted terrorists and their families, in what is known in Israel as pay-for-slay.

His remarks were made in a speech marking the 74th anniversary of the “Nakba,” commemorating what is known by Palestinians as the “catastrophe” of the establishment of the State of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

As one might expect, the unholy month of Ramadan (the Islamic month of killing, rioting and mayhem), was a month of killing, rioting and mayhem. 

Call'em predictable. 












						PA incited riots and terror during Ramadan, using PA libel that Al-Aqsa is being “desecrated” by Jews | PMW Analysis
					

“Now there is no time for talk. Now is the time only for actions to defend the Al-Aqsa Mosque




					palwatch.org
				




PA incited riots and terror during Ramadan, using PA libel that Al-Aqsa is being “desecrated” by Jews​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 15, 2022
*Terror promotion by PA and Fatah officials during the month of Ramadan:*​
*“Now there is no time for talk. Now is the time only for actions to defend the Al-Aqsa Mosque*​
*“Allah, liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque from the defilement of the Jews” – prayer broadcast by official PA TV*​
*“Come to the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque… and to defend it against the [Jewish] extremists and their aspirations to violate its sanctity” – PA Jerusalem District to Palestinians*​
*“We won’t lower the rifle, the stone, nor any [other] means of resistance to the occupation” – Fatah official*​


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Ben Shapiro DEFENDS Israel’s War Crimes In Attack On Rashida Tlaib​



If they think framing nations by race and skin color,
morally serves their cause, or even makes sense,
wouldn't they dare debate Ben on the issue?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> If they think framing nations by race and skin color,
> morally serves their cause, or even makes sense,
> wouldn't they dare debate Ben on the issue?


HUH????


----------



## Hollie

Just think.  Sociopaths within an enclave of Islamic terrorists with a UN funded welfare syndicate are groomed from a young age to act out their sociopathy. 












						Police arrest axe-wielding Palestinian suspected of planning terror attack
					

Suspect — a 22-year-old resident of Al-Bireh — found with suicide note in his possession; security forces arrest nine Palestinians in overnight West Bank raids




					www.timesofisrael.com
				







Axe carried by Palestinian suspect arrested by police in the West Bank, May 16, 2022. (Israel Police spokesperson)

Israeli police arrested overnight Sunday a Palestinian armed with an axe and carrying an apparent suicide letter stating that he was on his way to carry out a terror attack in the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

It's just.... uncanny, how pally's parading around dead bodies is so often a cover for planned riots and general mayhem. 












						Clashes erupt at Jerusalem funeral of Palestinian mortally wounded on Temple Mount
					

Police say 6  cops lightly injured, at least 15 Palestinians arrested; Red Crescent says 71 wounded as a funeral procession deteriorates into violence for second time in a week




					www.timesofisrael.com
				




Palestinians and police officers clashed fiercely in East Jerusalem on Monday night during the funeral procession of a Palestinian man who died after being critically wounded during clashes on the Temple Mount last month.


----------



## Hollie

Also known as gee-had denied. 





			'Break the Wave': 9 terrorism suspects arrested by IDF
		


The IDF arrested nine Palestinians suspected of terrorist activity on Sunday night, with soldiers operating in a number of locations throughout the West Bank as part of Operation Break the Wave.


----------



## Hollie

Exploiting death is what one has come to expect from islamic extremists. 

Although, I would not use the "extremist" Label to describe the the so-called "Palestinians" as jew hatred is enshrined in the hate and war manual that serves as their holy text. 











						Palestinian extremists seize moment to spread Jew hatred after death of Al Jazeera reporter
					

An Al Jazeera reporter was killed in the West Bank. The Palestinian Authority are pointing fingers at Israel. Meanwhile, they refuse to do a joint autopsy with Israel. One Americas Stella Escobedo spoke with Rabbi Yaakov Menken about how many are seizing the moment to promote anti-Israel propaganda.




					www.oann.com
				




An Al Jazeera reporter was killed in the West Bank. The Palestinian Authority are pointing fingers at Israel. Meanwhile, they refuse to do a joint autopsy with Israel. One Americas Stella Escobedo spoke with Rabbi Yaakov Menken about how many are seizing the moment to promote anti-Israel propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

The usual Great Satan loathing, Jew hating squids, having nothing else to do...









						Tlaib, Squad introduce resolution recognizing 'catastrophe' of Israel's creation
					

House members led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib introduced a resolution Monday calling for U.S. recognition of the "Nakba," a term meaning "catastrophe" typically used by Palestinians to refer to the establishment of the state of Israel.




					www.foxnews.com
				




House members led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., introduced a resolution Monday calling for U.S. recognition of the "Nakba," a term meaning "catastrophe" that is typically used by Palestinians to refer to the establishment of the state of Israel.





Their every waking moment is spent seething, whining and railing against the Great Satan and Jews.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> The usual Great Satan loathing, Jew hating squids, having nothing else to do...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tlaib, Squad introduce resolution recognizing 'catastrophe' of Israel's creation
> 
> 
> House members led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib introduced a resolution Monday calling for U.S. recognition of the "Nakba," a term meaning "catastrophe" typically used by Palestinians to refer to the establishment of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> House members led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., introduced a resolution Monday calling for U.S. recognition of the "Nakba," a term meaning "catastrophe" that is typically used by Palestinians to refer to the establishment of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their every waking moment is spent seething, whining and railing against the Great Satan and Jews.



*House members led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., introduced a resolution Monday calling for U.S. recognition of the "Nakba," a term meaning "catastrophe"*

We should. Only we should call it "The Big Run Away". Or "The First Arab Loser-Fest"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *House members led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., introduced a resolution Monday calling for U.S. recognition of the "Nakba," a term meaning "catastrophe"*
> 
> We should. Only we should call it "The Big Run Away". Or "The First Arab Loser-Fest"


The Palestinians did not lose that war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Present, Film Discussion with Farah Nabulsi​


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Those who have been following Nazi sympathy against the Jews, accuse Israel of being Nazi.  No shame to have helped the Nazis during WWII, and no shame in continuing the same ideologies to this day.  Destroy Israel and kill all the Jews, by anyways possible]

*    Israel's “policy is that the Jew is the “Aryan,” as happened in Germany- It is the same policy, the same ideological thought. I think most of the Israeli leaders are prized students of Goebbels, the minister of propaganda in the period of Nazi Germany,” - says PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert”  *






When Israeli soldiers tried to restore order at the Temple Mount during the violent Palestinian riots during Ramadan, official PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert” Fayez Abbas presented it as an expression of Israeli Nazi-like ideology that Jews are a superior “Aryan” race. The alleged expert on Israel continued to say that “Israeli leaders are prized students of Goebbels, the minister of propaganda in the period of Nazi Germany”: 









						Israeli prisons are “an identical copy of Auschwitz and the death camps”- Jibril Rajoub, senior PA leader | PMW Analysis
					

Israeli prisons are “an identical copy of Auschwitz and the death camps”- Jibril Rajoub, senior PA leader




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Partners of peace and co-existence.  Only when it comes to making lots of money from Iran, Qatar, EU, and all other fools who hate Jews ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Any excuse, all excuses. Still following the murderous example of the founder of Islam ]


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians did not lose that war.



The Arabs did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The Arabs did.


Israeli bullshit, of course.


----------



## Hollie

Did you know the islamic terrorists have an "Israeli affairs expert"?










						Israeli prisons are “an identical copy of Auschwitz and the death camps”- Jibril Rajoub, senior PA leader | PMW Analysis
					

Israeli prisons are “an identical copy of Auschwitz and the death camps”- Jibril Rajoub, senior PA leader




					palwatch.org
				




Israeli prisons are “an identical copy of Auschwitz and the death camps”- Jibril Rajoub, senior PA leader
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 17, 2022

•    Israel's “policy is that the Jew is the “Aryan,” as happened in Germany- It is the same policy, the same ideological thought. I think most of the Israeli leaders are prized students of Goebbels, the minister of propaganda in the period of Nazi Germany,” - says PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert”  


Pally credentialed "experts", eh?









						1,026 Palestinian prisoner terrorists enrolled in university - report
					

In 2011, it was decided by the Israeli government to deny prisoner terrorists the right to pursue higher education while in jail.




					www.google.com
				




More than 1,000 Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli jails are currently studying for advanced university degrees, according to a report by the Palestinian Media Watch.






So much for islamic terrorist experts.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli bullshit, of course.



The Arabs didn't lose?

Then why are they still whining 75 years later?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Parliament member Mushir Al-Masri praised the perpetrators of recent deadly terrorist attacks in Israeli cities.

According to a report by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), at a May 7 rally in support of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza), Masri said the Palestinians’ sword will not be sheathed until Israel’s leaders are beheaded.












						Hamas Official Encourages ‘Uprooting Zionists’ With ‘Cleavers, Axes, Guns’
					

Hamas terrorists. Photo: Wikimedia Commons. JNS.org – Hamas Parliament member Mushir Al-Masri praised the perpetrators of recent deadly terrorist attacks …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> The Arabs didn't lose?
> 
> Then why are they still whining 75 years later?





Toddsterpatriot said:


> The Arabs didn't lose?


Of course they didn't.
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Egypt lose?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course they didn't.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?



They intended to destroy Israel.

Did they succeed? No. They lost.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course they didn't.
> What did Lebanon lose?
> What did Syria lose?
> What did Jordan lose?
> What did Egypt lose?


Egypt lost Gaza.
Jordan lost Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.

All the others hung their heads in shame of losing to Jews.

How easily you forget history.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> Egypt lost Gaza.
> Jordan lost Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.
> 
> All the others hung their heads in shame of losing to Jews.
> 
> How easily you forget history.



He's whining about 1948, not 1967.
He'll whine about 1967 later.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Egypt lost Gaza.
> Jordan lost Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem.
> 
> All the others hung their heads in shame of losing to Jews.
> 
> How easily you forget history.


Wrong war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> They intended to destroy Israel.
> 
> Did they succeed? No. They lost.


They didn't attack Israel.

Nice duck though.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> They didn't attack Israel.
> 
> Nice duck though.



*They didn't attack Israel.*

And yet, they still lost to Israel.
*
Nice duck though.*

Nice loss. Nice whining.


----------



## Hollie

It's all fun and gee-had until it's not. 





			https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/daoud-zubeidi-brother-of-gilboa-escapee-dies-of-wounds-from-gun-battle-with-idf/amp/
		


Daoud Zubeidi, the brother of notorious terror chief and Gilboa prison escapee Zakaria Zubeidi, has died of wounds he sustained during a gun battle with Israeli soldiers, the Palestinian Authority Health Ministry said Sunday.

Zubeidi, 40, was among 13 Palestinian gunmen reportedly injured Friday in fierce exchanges of fire with Israeli troops in and around the city of Jenin in the West Bank, during an arrest operation carried out by police special forces and the Israeli military.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *They didn't attack Israel.*
> 
> And yet, they still lost to Israel.
> 
> *Nice duck though.*
> 
> Nice loss. Nice whining.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Tell me again about the Arabs and Palestinians not losing.

Good stuff. DURR


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Tell me again about the Arabs and Palestinians not losing.
> 
> Good stuff. DURR


You are talking about two different events.

The Arab Israeli war started on May 15, 1948 when five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. The fighting ended when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting *without calling winners or losers.*

The Nakba began in December of 1947 when Zionists militias (later to become the IDF) attacked Palestinian civilians driving them out of their homes. That "war" continues to today.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You are talking about two different events.
> 
> The Arab Israeli war started on May 15, 1948 when five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. The fighting ended when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting *without calling winners or losers.*
> 
> The Nakba began in December of 1947 when Zionists militias (later to become the IDF) attacked Palestinian civilians driving them out of their homes. That "war" continues to today.


One lost war after another for the Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

ISIS wannabes.

What's with Arabs-Moslems and their Medieval head lopping thing?











						Senior Hamas Official Mushir Al-Masri Praises Recent Attacks In Israel, Declares: We Will Uproot The Zionists With Our Axes, Knives, Guns; We Will Chop Off Their Leaders' Heads
					

In a May 7, 2022 rally in support of Hamas' Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar that aired on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza), Hamas MP Mus...




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Hamas Official Mushir Al-Masri Praises Recent Attacks In Israel, Declares: We Will Uproot The Zionists With Our Axes, Knives, Guns; We Will Chop Off Their Leaders' Heads


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> You are talking about two different events.
> 
> The Arab Israeli war started on May 15, 1948 when five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. The fighting ended when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting *without calling winners or losers.*
> 
> The Nakba began in December of 1947 when Zionists militias (later to become the IDF) attacked Palestinian civilians driving them out of their homes. That "war" continues to today.



*The Arab Israeli war started on May 15, 1948 when five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. *

Did the Arab armies accomplish their objectives?

_An armistice ends the fighting _*without calling winners or losers.*

If that makes you feel better.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza Fights Back | Official Trailer | MintPress News​


----------



## Hollie

It's another infomercial for the diseased, mentally crippled cabal of Pally sociopaths. 











						We love Martyrdom-death as we love life” – Fatah official | PMW Analysis
					

We love Martyrdom-death as we love life” – Fatah official




					palwatch.org
				






We love Martyrdom-death as we love life” – Fatah official
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 18, 2022

•   “Mother of the Martyr, what joy you have merited” - Palestinians at funeral of “Martyr”

•   Terrorist who was “martyred” is “advocate with Allah” for his family

•   Father of “Martyr” terrorist: “He wanted Martyrdom-death, he asked for it”

•  “Fatah expressed its appreciation… for the souls of the heroic Martyrs who ascended to Heaven, and whose pure blood watered the precious soil of Palestine”


Speaking at the funeral of a Palestinian who was killed while participating in violent riots against Israeli security forces, Fatah Revolutionary Council member Bayan Al-Tabib stated – claiming to speak on behalf of all Palestinians – that they “love” dying as “Martyrs” just as much as they love life:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Suppose the islamic terrorists held a Hitler appreciation day and nobody noticed... or cared. It's what is expected of Islamic terrorists.











						Media Mute as Protestors at ‘Nakba’ March Call for Terrorism, Compare Israel to Nazis
					

Illustrative: Supporters of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions campaign. Photo: Alex Chis. Attendees chanted their support for a new violent …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




and Sanctions campaign. Photo: Alex Chis.

Attendees chanted their support for a new violent intifada against Israel, and some carried homemade signs referencing Nazi Germany and Adolf Hitler. Despite this outpouring of hate, not a single UK media outlet covered the open displays of antisemitism at the “Nakba” march in central London on Saturday.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Coming from MNN, Mullah News Network. 

Pallywood Studios will bury any evidence of pally responsibility for the death of the Al Jazeera reporter. 

Curious. Where is the pally ''We love Martyrdom-death as we love life”, screeching?








						Palestine Not to Accept Israeli Role in Investigation of Journalist’s Killing - World news - Tasnim News Agency
					

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Palestinian ambassador to the United Nations Riyad Mansour said he holds the Israeli army responsible for the assassination of Al Jazeera Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, adding that his country will “not accept” Israeli participation in the investigation of the killing.




					www.tasnimnews.com
				




TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Palestinian ambassador to the United Nations Riyad Mansour said he holds the Israeli army responsible for the assassination of Al Jazeera Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, adding that his country will “not accept” Israeli participation in the investigation of the killing.​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ambitious plans for a nondescript Cult that can't manage indoor plumbing, 











						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mohammed Afeef Shadid: Our Right Of Return Is Not Only To Palestine; We Must Use Palestine As A Starting Point To Conquer The World, Deliver It From Darkness To Light
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Mohammed Afeef Shadid said in a sermon at the Bilal Bin Rabah Mosque in the West Bank town o...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mohammed Afeef Shadid: Our Right Of Return Is Not Only To Palestine; We Must Use Palestine As A Starting Point To Conquer The World, Deliver It From Darkness To Light​


----------



## Hollie

What this article doesn't address about those ''poor, oppressed pallys'' is the Egyptian need to protect its citizens from pally terrorists, 











						Palestinians Tormented At Rafah Crossing
					

A first-hand account reveals the extraordinary difficulties facing Palestinians at the Rafah crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




For Palestinians living inside the Gaza Strip, getting past the Rafah border crossing is almost an unattainable goal. I have experienced the humiliating conditions at the Rafah crossing several times recently


----------



## Sixties Fan

A reminder:


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did her resolution include descriptions like:

_*"warm feelings thinking about the Nakba"*_*?





*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Protection" is digging her out of the ground merely for a gun showoff,
in a 'funeral march' 3 days after burial, with her coffin used
as a prop for another Jazeera provocation?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorist pattern of falsehoods and misinformation. 









						PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people” | PMW Analysis
					

PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people”




					palwatch.org
				




PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people”
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 19, 2022
•   Israeli PM Bennett: 
“The instructions are clear – to harm terrorists wherever they are”

•    PA distorted Bennett’s instructions to kill “terrorists” into kill all “Palestinians” 

•    PA: Bennett called “on his occupation army to murder and abuse Palestinian people at their free will,” “Bennett instructs the occupation army to use excessive force against the Palestinians wherever they are!”


----------



## Hollie

How nice. The Pal Islamic terrorists have their own safe space. They might want to build a mosque for gee-had planning and weapons storage and announce it as Islam'isms 8,047th most holy site. 










						Media Reality Check: Jenin Is the Epicenter of Palestinian Terrorism
					

Palestinians run near burning tires during clashes with Israeli forces following a raid, in Jenin in the West Bank April …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




Media Reality Check: Jenin Is the Epicenter of Palestinian Terrorism



The Washington Post reported on May 16th about how a leading Catholic clergyman in Israel had condemned the events surrounding the funeral of Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, who was shot and killed during a terrorism raid in the West Bank.

What went unmentioned in the entire piece is that Abu Akleh’s tragic death occurred in a terror hotbed, a place where most of the Palestinians who have carried out the recent terror attacks on Jewish civilians have come from.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Was he protecting it from the Arab terrorists who stole it from her family?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arab oligarchs tend to compensate
with loads of virtue signaling...









						Delicious! Bella Hadid's Company Sells to Israel, Not "Palestine"
					

Israel-hater and model Bella Hadid is pushing a non-alcoholic beverage called Kin as the company's co-founder.




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians have a problem.

“You’re kidding! For this we need another blog post?”

Yes, we haven’t talked about this one before.

“Oh really, a new problem?”

No, one of their oldest, we just haven’t talked about it. Which is strange because it’s not just old, it’s also their biggest, most fundamental problem and by “we” I mean everyone, not just Harry’s Place. The problem is hate and when I say we haven’t talked about it, I mean we haven’t talked enough, or perhaps at all, about its consequences.

For reasons of history and choice the Palestinians have adopted a strategy of grievance, hate, refusal and rejection against Israel. That’s not a statement about every individual Palestinian any more than “Russia is xenophobic” is an indictment of every Russian. It’s a true statement, though, about Palestinian society and it’s well documented. Is there hate on the Israeli side too? Certainly, and easy to find, but it’s not state policy or all-pervasive.

Here’s the Executive Summary:

The ADL’s widely-reported 2014 global survey found a 93% prevalence of antisemitism in the West Bank & Gaza.The Palestinian Authority’s Pay to Slay policy is well known. The more you kill, the more you win.

In education, organisations such as the Georg Eckert Institute and IMPACT have been describing the situation for years. While not slow to criticise Israel, they also note steady improvements in the representation of Palestinians, their history and viewpoint in Israeli textbooks. The most recent reports on the Palestinian Authority, on the other hand, show that things are not only badbut getting worse .

The earlier report states:



> The latest IMPACT-se analysis of the new Palestinian curriculum found it has moved further from meeting UNESCO standards and the newly published textbooks were found to be more radical than those previously published.
> There is a systematic insertion of violence, martyrdom and jihad across all grades and subjects…. The possibility of peace with Israel is rejected. Any historical Jewish presence in the modern-day territories of Israel and the Palestinian Authority is entirely omitted from the textbooks.


The later one notes PA Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh’s declaration to the EU that:



> if foreign aid is conditioned … over textbook incitement, the Palestinian Authority would finance the printing of textbooks by reallocating funds for water, electricity and communication systems.


How’s that for priorities, but why not when you can blame the ensuing infrastructure crises on Israel?

I don’t really need to tell you that Hamas is not better :



> The most extreme, cynical and disturbing aspect of the website is its pervasive indoctrination of the younger generation into the cult of martyrdom – helping to create the next generation of suicide bombers to join the violent jihad.


From the mosques comes a flood of invective and incitement. The same from the political leadership. The media of course, does its part.

This is not new, least of all to anyone on this site. The only reason I’m spelling it out and supplying links is because I know to anticipate accusations of racism! and Islamophobia! (That will happen anyway; the links are for people who respond to evidence by making up their own minds.) So why bother rehearsing it all? Because, as I said, the consequences matter.

The choice to hate has turned into a trap. The cultivation of hate might have been an effective, if unsavoury strategy when Israel was new and weak, the Arab front looked strong and international will was vacillating (some things don’t change). This wall of incandescent fury might have served to create a united Palestinian people and fire them to steamroll over their enemy. But it wasn’t enough.


(full article online)









						What’s to become of the Palestinians? We need to talk about Khaybar.
					

By Paul M      The Palestinians have a problem.  “You’re kidding! For this we need another blog post?”  Yes, we haven’t talked about this one before.  “Oh really, a new problem?”  No, one of their oldest, we just haven’t talked about it. Which is strange because it’s not just old, it’s



					hurryupharry.net


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ If only they spent 1 % of this energy into living side by side with Jews, how many lives would be saved, how much progress and a good life could everyone have?  ]


----------



## Hollie

One would think they're little more than helpless and feckless, unable to make decisions and just require constant looking after. 








						PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people” | PMW Analysis
					

PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people”




					palwatch.org
				




PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 19, 2022
*•   Israeli PM Bennett: 
“The instructions are clear – to harm terrorists wherever they are”
•    PA distorted Bennett’s instructions to kill “terrorists” into kill all “Palestinians” 
•    PA: Bennett called “on his occupation army to murder and abuse Palestinian people at their free will,” “Bennett instructs the occupation army to use excessive force against the Palestinians wherever they are!”*

Here is a classic example of how a PA libel is created. Starting with a real event or statement, the PA twists and distorts it, turning it into a gross lie.
Following several terror attacks, murders of Israelis, and violent riots during Ramadan, as well as continued Palestinian attempts to harm Israeli citizens, Israeli PM Naftali Bennett instructed the Israeli army and Israeli police to go after the Palestinian “*terrorists* wherever they are.” Bennett specifically emphasized the target as “terrorists”:


> “The instructions are clear – to harm *terrorists* wherever they are, with all kinds of weapons… We are giving the Israeli army and Israeli police full backing to harm *every terrorist* – in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, and everywhere else in the land. *Whoever raises a hand against an Israeli civilian or Israeli soldier *– their blood is on their own head.”
> [Israeli daily Maariv, May 17, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

A rather startling admission by the Islamic terrorists. The phony ''Hakba'' was a testament to the failure and incompetence of the invading Arab armies.  







			https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/hamas-admits-israel-did-not-expel-the-palestinians/
		


Writing for the Hamas website palinfo.com, *Ibrahim Al-Madhoun* acknowledges that…



> “Sadly, the armies of several Arab regimes had a hand in persuading the people and the villages to leave and to abandon their homes, on the pretext of protecting [the villages] and fighting the Zionist gangs. The Palestinians believed and trusted them and the families left, hoping that the Zionist gangs would be defeated and their strength would be broken…
> “Palestinians sold their wives’ jewelry to buy a single rifle to defend their village, but the Arab armies collected their weapons and promised them they would fight on their behalf. They took the weapons and sent the [Palestinian] fighters away, and then they withdrew without putting up a fight.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

As the PA is accusing Israel of deliberately having “assassinated” Al-Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, Palestinians at one of the funeral processions held for the journalist openly expressed their ideology: “How sweet it is to kill Jews.”

Chanting at the funeral procession in Jenin, the participants called for more terror attacks – “operations and kidnapping of [Israeli] soldiers” – expressed their desire to die a *“sweet Martyrdom-death,”* and take “revenge”: 

















> *Crowd:* “O mother, *how sweet is Martyrdom-death!* …
> Respond to the rifle with a rifle
> With *operations (i.e., terror attacks) and kidnapping of [Israeli] soldiers…
> How sweet it is to kill Jews…*
> Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem…
> *Revenge, revenge! *O Jenin, O Al-Qassam [Brigades]! …
> Tel Aviv, we will teach it [a lesson]
> We will keep it under fire”
> [Palestine Post twitter account, May 11, 2022]



(full article online)









						“How sweet it is to kill Jews” – Palestinians chant at funeral of Al-Jazeera journalist Abu Akleh | PMW Analysis
					

PA continues to disseminate libel that Israel targets journalists




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Watch: Nerdeen Kiswani addresses CUNY Law Class of 2022
Today we join in celebrating and honoring WOL’s chair and founder Nerdeen Kiswani, who graduated today with a J.D. from the CUNY School of Law. Alf Mabrook Nerdeen!
After zionists learned days ago that Nerdeen was selected by her class to be the student commencement speaker, they launched a failed campaign calling on CUNY to block her from speaking, just as they launched a failed campaign to get her expelled two years ago. In response Nerdeen declared, “This moment is not about those who attack, slander and intimidate those fighting for justice, this moment is about our triumph in the face of them.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Watch: Nerdeen Kiswani addresses CUNY Law Class of 2022
> Today we join in celebrating and honoring WOL’s chair and founder Nerdeen Kiswani, who graduated today with a J.D. from the CUNY School of Law. Alf Mabrook Nerdeen!
> After zionists learned days ago that Nerdeen was selected by her class to be the student commencement speaker, they launched a failed campaign calling on CUNY to block her from speaking, just as they launched a failed campaign to get her expelled two years ago. In response Nerdeen declared, “This moment is not about those who attack, slander and intimidate those fighting for justice, this moment is about our triumph in the face of them.”


When one has been taught from birth that one's land has been stolen, when it was not........Justice is meaningless when Muslims insist in killing and dying by the thousands to destroy the Indigenous Homeland of the Jewish People.

Arab Colonizers must do justice by putting an end to their war against the Jews, and respect the Jewish Homeland ON the Jewish land.


Colonizing Judea/Palestine, since the 7th century,  does not make the Arabs the indigenous people of the area, any more than Arabs are the Indigenous people of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, Lybia, Morocco, etc, where they are now the majority.


Arabs are invading colonizers, just as much as the Europeans are invading colonizers of the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, and all the other places after 1492.

Kiswani and others would do well to respect Indigenous people and help those indigenous people regain sovereignty over their Indigenous lands.

The Kurds are just as attacked by the Arabs and the Turks in Kurdistan as the Jewish People are on their indigenous land, Israel, in order to take over that land.

Too many Muslims want it all.  Just as too many Christians want it all.  At the cost of the rights of the indigenous people of those lands.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


No, they should never forgive Al Husseini and the Arab League, and the Hashemites for bringing them nothing but hatred for Jews and war, and needless death.

Boycott the Arab League, the Hashemites, the PLO, Hamas and all the other worthless haters who make it impossible for there to be peace with Israel.

Many other Arabs are doing it.

When will these Arabs learn?


----------



## Hollie

More of the silly propaganda coming from the Islamic terrorist enclave. 

When the Islamic terrorists make daily announcements with both words and actions about their intentions toward killing Israelis, the Israelis understand clearly a need to defend themselves. 









						PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people” | PMW Analysis
					

PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people”




					palwatch.org
				




PA libel: Israeli PM said “Murder and abuse Palestinian people”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 19, 2022
*•   Israeli PM Bennett: 
“The instructions are clear – to harm terrorists wherever they are”
•    PA distorted Bennett’s instructions to kill “terrorists” into kill all “Palestinians” 
•    PA: Bennett called “on his occupation army to murder and abuse Palestinian people at their free will,” “Bennett instructs the occupation army to use excessive force against the Palestinians wherever they are!”*

Here is a classic example of how a PA libel is created. Starting with a real event or statement, the PA twists and distorts it, turning it into a gross lie.
Following several terror attacks, murders of Israelis, and violent riots during Ramadan, as well as continued Palestinian attempts to harm Israeli citizens, Israeli PM Naftali Bennett instructed the Israeli army and Israeli police to go after the Palestinian “*terrorists* wherever they are.” Bennett specifically emphasized the target as “terrorists”:


> “The instructions are clear – to harm *terrorists* wherever they are, with all kinds of weapons… We are giving the Israeli army and Israeli police full backing to harm *every terrorist* – in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, and everywhere else in the land. *Whoever raises a hand against an Israeli civilian or Israeli soldier *– their blood is on their own head.”
> [Israeli daily Maariv, May 17, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Your ''thing'' with young female children is really creepy.


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was funny. The pals, worst offenders ever at ''cultural appropriation'', are whining about cultural appropriation. 














						Palestinians Complain Their Cultural Appropriation Has Been Culturally Appropriated
					

"As if Zionist #appropriation werent enough, now we have to battle against designers eager to erase Palestinian tradition to make a profit"




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

He's a pally Islamic ''scholar''. 

Mraweh ''_The Head Cutter_'' Nassar. 

Lovely folks... if psychopaths appeal to you.  













						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mraweh Nassar: Muslims Must Cut Off The Head Of The Zionist Snake If They Want To Solve Their Problems; The Zionist Occupation Is Ending – These People Will Be Eliminated
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Mraweh Nassar, the Secretary-General of the Jerusalem Committee of the International Union o...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mraweh Nassar: Muslims Must Cut Off The Head Of The Zionist Snake If They Want To Solve Their Problems; The Zionist Occupation Is Ending – These People Will Be Eliminated​


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mohammed Afeef Shadid: Our Right Of Return Is Not Only To Palestine; We Must Use Palestine As A Starting Point To Conquer The World, Deliver It From Darkness To Light
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Mohammed Afeef Shadid said in a sermon at the Bilal Bin Rabah Mosque in the West Bank town o...




					www.memri.org
				


​Palestinian Islamic Scholar Mohammed Afeef Shadid: Our Right Of Return Is Not Only To Palestine; We Must Use Palestine As A Starting Point To Conquer The World, Deliver It From Darkness To Light​


Oh, I don't know, Mo. Maybe learn something about indoor plumbing before undertaking that conquering the world, thing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nardine Kaswani, a resistance fighter and rebel, carried her compatriots and the leaders of marches and demonstrations in support of her cause, the Zionists attacked her and started more than a campaign against her, she was banned from visiting Palestine for ten years
Here she is today representing Palestine while she is wearing a dress which is the symbol of our civilization and Kufiya is the symbol of the revolution.
Men boast of their countries, and my country boasts of its women.
How great are the hands that fight, teach, win, heal, raise and plant.
Congratulations to the daughter of Palestine, may you live as a rebel, Palestine is proud of people like you


----------



## Hollie

It's a shame that Islamic terrorist pallys find that the use of their UNRWA welfare fund is best spent on using their children as a disposable war commodity. 












						Malaysia, Venezuela Praised for Supporting Palestinian Cause
					

TEHRAN (IQNA) – The Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas has lauded the support of Malaysia and Venezuela for the Palestinian people on the path of defending their legitimate rights.




					iqna.ir
				




TEHRAN (IQNA) – The Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas has lauded the support of Malaysia and Venezuela for the Palestinian people on the path of defending their legitimate rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Glad to be out of the hell hole of pally Islamism.


----------



## Hollie

What they mean is that they have an excess of children to throw onto the raging bonfire of gee-had. 











						Palestinian Islamic Jihad In Gaza Rally: Our Military Wing Is Ready To Fight In Gaza, Jenin, And Everywhere In Palestine – Even Where Our 'Stupid Enemy' Does Not Anticipate It
					

On May 18, 2022, Palestine Today TV (Palestinian Islamic Jihad) aired a Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) rally held in Be...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Jihad In Gaza Rally: Our Military Wing Is Ready To Fight In Gaza, Jenin, And Everywhere In Palestine – Even Where Our 'Stupid Enemy' Does Not Anticipate It​


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists also run an organized crime syndicate, paid for with their welfare dollars.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Time to move on. 











						Canadian Imam Younus Kathrada: Palestinian Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh Died As A Non-Muslim; Those Who Say She Is In Paradise Are Followers Of Satan
					

Canadian Imam Younus Kathrada said in a Friday, May 13, 2022 sermon that was uploaded to the Muslim Youth Victoria YouTu...




					www.memri.org
				




Canadian Imam Younus Kathrada: Palestinian Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh Died As A Non-Muslim; Those Who Say She Is In Paradise Are Followers Of Satan​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The usual Islamic terrorist clown show on full display.













						“How sweet it is to kill Jews” – Palestinians chant at funeral of Al-Jazeera journalist Abu Akleh | PMW Analysis
					

PA continues to disseminate libel that Israel targets journalists




					palwatch.org
				





How sweet it is to kill Jews” – Palestinians chant at funeral of Al-Jazeera journalist Abu Akleh​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 19, 2022
*•    Libel: “There is a decision by the occupation government to liquidate the Palestinian journalists” - Chairman of the Palestinian Journalists’ Syndicate 
•    Libel: Killing of Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Akleh was “a deliberate assassination operation” - Deputy Head of the Palestinian Journalists’ Syndicate *




As the PA is accusing Israel of deliberately having “assassinated” Al-Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, Palestinians at one of the funeral processions held for the journalist openly expressed their ideology: “How sweet it is to kill Jews.”


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Islam has no problems sending children to die ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[The invading Arab colonizers threaten the indigenous people of Israel, no different from Europeans still threatening the Indigenous First Nations in the Americans.  What is Gaza leader doing threatening anything going on in Israel while most of his people encounter difficulties created by Hamas not sharing and not caring about them? ]

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh warned Israel in a Sunday speech against allowing right-wing Israelis to conduct the annual Jerusalem Day “Flag March” in Jerusalem’s Old City next week, a year after Hamas fired rockets at Jerusalem when the event was last held.

“I want to clearly warn the enemy against committing these crimes and these steps. The Palestinian people, led by the resistance — especially those in the West Bank and Jerusalem — will not permit this Jewish, Talmudic rubbish to go unanswered,” said Haniyeh, speaking by video in front of a crowd in Gaza.

“Our decision is clear and unhesitating… We will resist with all our capabilities and we will not permit the violation of the Al-Aqsa Mosque or thuggery in the streets of Jerusalem,” said Haniyeh.

(full article online)









						‘Jewish, Talmudic rubbish’: Hamas vows to use ‘all capabilities’ against Flag March
					

Last year, terror group fired rockets at Israel during religious-nationalist event celebrating Jerusalem Day; current parade route through Muslim Quarter still pending cabinet OK




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Hadid Family, as "Palestinian" as the Al Jusseini family.  They came from Arabia after the 7th Century CE Muslim Arab invasion.  Before 1948, they called themselves Arabs.  Now, they are Palestinians as long as it takes to destroy Israel. ]


---------------------------
Mohamed is a descendent of an autonomous Arab ruler of northern Palestine in the mid 18th century, while the area was still ostensibly a part of the Ottoman Sultanate.

Zahir al-Umar al-Zaydani or Daher-al-Omar (1685-1775), Prince of Nazareth and Sheikh of Galilee was his great-great-grandfather from his mother, Khairiah Daher's side of the family.









						Gigi, Bella and Anwar Hadid are descendants of a 17th-century Arab ruler and a Palestinian national hero
					

Zahir al-Umar al-Zaydani or Daher-al-Omar, Prince of Nazareth and Sheikh of Galilee, according to the Hadid family genealogy, is their great-great-grandfather from their paternal grandmother's side of the family




					meaww.com
				





[ Note that it says " Autonomous  Arab ruler" and not "Autonomous Palestinian ruler". ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

The administration at Tzfat Academic College has decided to permanently expel an Arab student who expressed support for the terrorist attack in Hadera in which two police officers were murdered in March.

In a WhatsApp message to another student, the Arab student called the terrorists who committed the attack "heroes" and said that "it is good that the Jews suffer."

The decision sets a precedent for institutions of higher learning in Israel, which have seen an increase in the number of anti-Israel demonstrations and Palestinian Authority flags flown on campus.

The recipient of the hateful message, a Druze student, was shaken by it, especially as one of the police officers who was killed in the attack was a Druze policeman, and contacted the school administration/

The student who sent the message was summoned to a hearing, where additional evidence against him was presented, including complaints of violence, verbal, and physical abuse, which included shoving, shouting, and threats toward other students as. Two female students also said he told them he knew where they lived and threatened to throw a grenade at their homes.


(full article online)









						Tzfat Academic College expels student who supported murder of Jews
					

Decision to expel student who expressed support for Hareda terror attack, said it is "good that the Jews suffer," sets precedent in colleges




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nerdeen Kiswani and other Palestinians in front of the office of Zionist Senator Chuck Schumer.​


----------



## Hollie

A really silly pallywood infomercial with islamo-knucklheads playing army. There's even the obligatory Allahu Akbar as someone shoots a tree. 












						Video Showcasing Hamas’s Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Elite Unit Military Training, Simulating Attacks Against IDF Bases, Navy Commandos, Armored Vehicles
					

...




					www.memri.org
				




Video Showcasing Hamas’s Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Elite Unit Military Training, Simulating Attacks Against IDF Bases, Navy Commandos, Armored Vehicles​


----------



## Hollie

According to the Iranian rulers of pally'dom, there's a new Islamic terrorist franchise in the territories occupied by the Shia wannabes, something called ''Mujahideen Movement of Palestine''.












						Palestinian group condemns assassination of defender of holy shrines
					

Tehran, IRNA – Mujahideen Movement of Palestine through a statement condemned the Mossad-related terrorist operation in Tehran which killed Hassan Sayyad Khodaei, a colonel of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC), on Sunday afternoon.




					en.irna.ir
				




Tehran, IRNA – Mujahideen Movement of Palestine through a statement condemned the Mossad-related terrorist operation in Tehran which killed Hassan Sayyad Khodaei, a colonel of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC), on Sunday afternoon.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[Ahhhh, one can feel the human love and peaceful wishes for a better world with his words ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ EU, Qatar, USA money being wasted to make sure Jews are killed ]


----------



## Hollie

Because every child in the Pal Cult of Islamic Terrorist Sociopaths needs to learn the joys of being gunned down in the service of making the Hamas and Fatah leadership richer, the ''knife intifada'' had provided for more dead Pallys. 

Allahu Akbar, I guess.












						Immortalizing a child terrorist | PMW Analysis
					

Immortalizing a child terrorist




					palwatch.org
				




Immortalizing a child terrorist​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | May 23, 2022
On October 15, 2015, as part of the PA instigated “Knife Intifada” terror campaign, two Palestinian terrorists, aged 15 and 13 years old, went on a terror spree in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Ze’ev. Before being neutralized, the pair managed to attack and inflict life threatening injuries on two Israelis. Yosef Ben Shalom, then 21 years old, was stabbed twice in the chest. Naor Ben Ezra, then just 12 years old, was stabbed 4 times. 
Video footage released by the Israel police showed the terrorists, knives in hand, chasing their potential victim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

IQ2 Susan Abulhawa Opening Remarks​


----------



## Hollie

From the ''this is not a religious conflict'', files. 

Land occupied by the Pals is land that is viewed as _waqf, _that is, land previously conquered or occupied by Arabs-Moslems is land presumed to be an entitlement to Arabs-Moslems per the inventor of Islamism. 







						PA religious council emphasizes ban on selling land to Jews | PMW Analysis
					

PA religious council emphasizes ban on selling land to Jews




					palwatch.org
				




PA religious council emphasizes ban on selling land to Jews​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | May 24, 2022

Apartheid in South Africa started already in 1913, when the South African government passed the Natives Land Act. According to this law, black South Africans were prohibited from buying or renting land in 93% of South Africa. This law was one of the foundation stones of the later adopted official policy.

When compared to the PA approach to selling land to Jews, the Natives Land Act, seems almost positive. 

At a recent meeting of PA Supreme Fatwa Council, led by PA Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the Palestinian Territories and Supreme Fatwa Council Chairman Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, the PA reiterated that Palestinians selling land to Jews is not only a criminal offence but also forbidden according to Shari’ah law: 


> “Palestine is _kharaj_ land (i.e., land belonging to Muslims) and a _waqf_ (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law; see note below) which, *according to Shari’ah law, it is forbidden to sell its lands and its properties or facilitate its transfer to enemies. This is because in terms of Shari’ah law it is considered a public Islamic property and not private property…*”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida,_ March 25, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

With the endless Islamic terrorist incitement, promotion and glorification of ''knife gee-had'' and attacks aimed at Israelis, a proactive position that prevents attacks is warranted. 












						Israeli overnight operation nabs 5 Palestinian terrorist suspects - I24NEWS
					

Illegal weapons also confiscated during West Bank counter-terrorism operation - Click the link for more details




					www.i24news.tv
				




Illegal weapons also confiscated during West Bank counter-terrorism operation

Five Palestinian terrorist suspects were arrested on Monday night by Israeli forces as part of operation "Break the Wave," the IDF Spokesperson's Unit said in a statement Tuesday morning.

Israel Defense Forces, Shin Bet internal security service and Border Police units conducted the raids in the Judea and Samaria Division of the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

It makes one want to ask, ''you just noticed this?''

The lowlifes in the Fatah and Hamas Islamic terrorist syndicates spend their lifetimes idolizing the children they throw onto the raging bonfire of religiously inspired hatred they promote. 














						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah openly supports “the pure and heroic” Tel Aviv / Bnei Brak terrorists who murdered 8​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | May 25, 2022



The two Palestinian murderers who killed 8 people in two separate terror attacks in central Tel Aviv and in Bnei Brak near Tel Aviv in March and April have been named “heroic Martyrs” by Abbas’ Fatah Movement.

Terrorist Ra'ad Hazem shot and murdered 3 Israeli civilians and wounded 14 others when he opened fire on a crowded bar on Dizengoff Street in central Tel Aviv on April 7, 2022.

Terrorist Diya Ahmed Hassan Hamarsheh, a Fatah member himself, shot and murdered 5 people – 2 Israeli civilians, 1 Israeli police officer, and 2 foreign workers from Ukraine – in Bnei Brak on March 29, 2022.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Religious duty denied for another pally sociopath.


----------



## Hollie

Pally terrorists sure love those Great Satan dollars.


----------



## RoccoR

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
_*SUBTOPIC*_: Responses towards BDS
⁜→  et al,

In most cases, Student Activities, on almost any campus, do not have the prerequisite attention to actually research the topic and make a recognition of "Apartheid."



P F Tinmore said:


> Let’s be clear,


*(COMMENT)*
.
.These filler tweets do not actually make a positive difference in the direction towards peace.

In many cases, these tweets show pictures of the Israeli Border Security Barrier.  Border Security, in whatever form is NOT an example of "apartheid."

Many activities of the  Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement are actually a violation of either an international Covenant or Law.

All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.

◈    It makes not difference on the matter of on what the intent of the BDS Movement is...  Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​​◈    When campus activists present most arguments concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it is based on the matter of Positive Rights.  Positive Rights is all about “freedom” to have territorial concessions in favor of the Palestinian. These concessions are made to the Palestinians in which the Palestinians did NOT have to work for or do anything to achieve the benefit on their own.​​◈    With our regard to the non-binding documents the Arab Palestinians present on the matter the actual "crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  "The definition of a crime (under the General Principles of Criminal Law • _Nullum crimen sine lege_) shall be strictly construed and *shall not be extended by analogy*.  In case of *ambiguity*, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted."​
I notice that our friend, P F Tinmore, almost always ignores these pivotal points, just as most students do not understand these issues.





_Most Respectfully,_
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> These filler tweets do not actually make a positive difference in the direction towards peace.


Whose version of peace are you talking about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In many cases, these tweets show pictures of the Israeli Border Security Barrier. Border Security, in whatever form is NOT an example of "apartheid."


Security, the mantra if tyrants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Many activities of the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement are actually a violation of either an international Covenant or Law.


Examples?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.


So, do you mean like Israel stealing farm land and water, destroying crops and factories, and restricting trade?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> These concessions are made to the Palestinians in which the Palestinians did NOT have to work for or do anything to achieve the benefit on their own.


Do you mean like getting their own stuff back?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the actual "crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.


Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

Those "poor, oppressed Pallys". 

Without what they're given by Israel and western donor nations, they would be just another islamic terrorist backwater. 











						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




PLO, PA TV promote world without Israel - even in TV quizzes
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | May 26, 2022



•    Mount Meron in northern Israel is in “Palestine”

•    The Sea of Galilee in northern Israel is “in Palestine”

•    The Hula Lake in northern Israel is “in Palestine”

•    The Red Sea at Israel's southern border is “in Palestine”

•    “Palestine” is “27,000 sq. km.” – i,e., includes all of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those "poor, oppressed Pallys".
> 
> Without what they're given by Israel and western donor nations, they would be just another islamic terrorist backwater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLO, PA TV promote world without Israel - even in TV quizzes
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | May 26, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> •    Mount Meron in northern Israel is in “Palestine”
> 
> •    The Sea of Galilee in northern Israel is “in Palestine”
> 
> •    The Hula Lake in northern Israel is “in Palestine”
> 
> •    The Red Sea at Israel's southern border is “in Palestine”
> 
> •    “Palestine” is “27,000 sq. km.” – i,e., includes all of Israel





Hollie said:


> Without what they're given by Israel and western donor nations, they would be just another islamic terrorist backwater.


Says the mooch capital of the world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Not one murder of Jews the Arabs are not happy about.  The Happy Cult of Death. ]

As the world mourns the young victims of the mass shooting in Uvalde, it is worth looking at how Palestinians and Jordanians regard another shooting at a school in Israel 48 years ago this month.

On May 15, 1974 - what is now celebrated as "Nakba Day" - three Palestinian Arab DFLP terrorists went on a shooting spree in Ma'alot, Israel, where they killed many - including shooting a 4 year old boy and his pregnant mother dead. The attack culminated in them taking 105 hostages at the Netiv Meir Elementary School, their target, where high school students from Tzfat (Safed) were staying during a field trip. They placed explosive charges between the students forced to the floor at gunpoint.

During a rescue operation, the terrorists sprayed the students with machine gun fire and tossed grenades at another group of girls. A total of 31 people were killed, including 22 students.

Palestinian websites recall this attack fondly. The Palestinian Encyclopedia calls it the Tarshiha Operation and calls the three terrorists "martyrs," proudly noting that they made it through Israeli security.

One of the terrorists, Muhammad Muslih Salim Dardour, has a street named after him in Ramtha, Jordan, his birthplace:

(full article online)









						Jordan names a street after a terrorist who murdered over 20 students at a school
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Security, the mantra if tyrants.



Until it's your kids involved.
A cheap mantra for cheap demagogues,
but Israel is among the top happiest countries,
and every public place and school - has an armed guard.


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> "crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.





P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed.



Like calling the entire Middle East,
"Arab land" to incite genocide?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I think Azzam ''The Headachce'' Al-Ahmad assigns a bit too much importance to the fading relevance of pallydom. 











						Senior Fatah Official Azzam Al-Ahmad: We Must Give The U.S. A Headache, Become A Concern In Every American Household, Like Vietnam, South Africa; The Arab Regimes Will Collapse One By One If They Abandon The Palestinians
					

Fatah Central Committee member Azzam Al-Ahmad said in a May 24, 2022 interview on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) that the U....




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Fatah Official Azzam Al-Ahmad: We Must Give The U.S. A Headache, Become A Concern In Every American Household, Like Vietnam, South Africa; The Arab Regimes Will Collapse One By One If They Abandon The Palestinians​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Seven years later, it appears that Jabas believes Israel should pay for cosmetic surgery she says she needs due to injuries sustained in the attack she launched. While two similar requests have been rejected, Israel Prison Services has made sure she received multiple essential medical treatments at the state’s expense.

“I have [post-traumatic] stress and it is very difficult and significant for me,” Officer Hen recently told Channel 12. “There were another four full buses there and the fire reached a height of four stories.”

“If I hadn’t been there, everyone would’ve been burned. I received an honor for it, for the bravery, but I don’t feel that I did anything at all. Now this terrorist wants to [receive] an operation?” he added.

Israel Prisons Service stood “behind its refusal to fund a cosmetic treatment for the prisoner,” Arutz Sheva reported.


(full article online)

https://unitedwithisrael.org/failed-martyr-demands-cosmetic-surgery-after-blowing-up-gas-balloon-in-attack/?utm_source=newsletters_unitedwithisrael_org&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Failed+Muslim+‘Martyr’+Makes+Outrageous+Demand+from+Israel%3B+CNN+Must+Fess+Up+About+Anti-Israel+Blood+Libel%3B+Jerusalem+Day+Celebrates+Liberation+of+Israel%27s+Eternal+Capital%21&utm_campaign=20220527_m168014292_Failed+Muslim+‘Martyr’+Makes+Outrageous+Demand+from+Israel%3B+CNN+Must+Fess+Up+About+Anti-Israel+Blood+Libel%3B+Jerusalem+Day+Celebrates+Liberation+of+Israel%27s+Eternal+Capital%21&utm_term=OUTRAGEOUS_3A+Failed+Muslim+_E2_80_98Martyr_E2_80_99+Makes+Shocking+Demand+from+Israel+After+Blowing


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Israelis invade other people's countries then expect chocolates and roses apparently lol.*

That's awful!!

Which country did Israelis invade?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

As you might expect, the Islamic terrorist talking heads, representing something called the ''fatah revolutionary council'', are urging their minions to do a gee-had and attack Israelis during the flag day march. 

Perhaps Charles Darwin will present a lesson. 









						EPIC FAIL: Arab Sets Himself On Fire While Burning Israeli Flag
					

Sometimes Karma works extremely fast.  Follow Red Voice Media




					www.redvoicemedia.com
				












			https://www.memri.org/tv/fatah-revolutionary-council-member-jamal-huwail-calls-for-violence-jerusalem-flag-day
		


Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Jamal Al-Huwail Praises Terrorists, Calls For Violence Against Israelis At Upcoming Jerusalem Day Flag March: Rise Up, Be Fedayeen!​


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was funny. The Islamic terrorist / welfare fraud franchise known as the PA, groveling on behalf of the Islamic terrorist / welfare fraud franchise known as the PLO, wants the Great Satan to remove the PLO from its list of Islamic terrorist organizations.

''I do hereby proclaim the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization as a mobilizing leadership of the forces of the Palestinian Arab people to wage the battle of liberation, as a shield for the rights and aspirations of the people of Palestine and as a road to victory.''

Ahmad Shukairy

Wait, what? As we know, There has never been, a ''Pal'istanian people'', a pally state, a pally language, culture, or history. The present-day "Pallys" are Arabs, with Arabic culture, history, and language. They came from Arab states and colonized lands of the former Turkish caliphate. 










						Palestine Calls On US To Remove PLO From Terror Lists: Offi...
					

<a href =https://menafn.com/updates/pr/2022-05/25/I_813c6187-e_Image_In_Body.jpg target=_blank><br/><img src='https://menafn.com/updates/pr/2022-



					menafn.com
				




Ramallah, May 25 (IANS) The Palestinian Authority (PA) has urged the US to remove the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) from the lists of terror classified by the US Congress, a senior Palestinian official said.


----------



## Hollie

Following his release as a guest of the Israeli prison system, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was Sheikh'en the Gaza Islamic terrorist enclave in October 1997, Yassin was the founder of Hamas, the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. While in Gaza'istan, he declared gee-had with the rant that Israel must "disappear from the map." He whined: "We have an aim and an enemy, and we shall continue our jihad against the enemy. A nation without a jihad is a nation without a purpose."


The Yassin groupies have learned nothing. 









						Hamas Military Wing Simulates "Liberation" Of Israeli Settlements Bordering The Gaza Strip
					

On May 23, 2022, a Hamas propaganda video showcasing a training operation carried out by Hamas's military wing, the Izz ...




					www.memri.org
				




Hamas Military Wing Simulates "Liberation" Of Israeli Settlements Bordering The Gaza Strip​


----------



## Hollie

It's an illness that defines the squatters.


----------



## Hollie

If's long past time that the US and international community stop paying lslamic terrorists.












						Judge finds sufficient evidence linking American group to Hamas supporters | World Israel News
					

Strong enough connections have been shown for the case to proceed, the U.S. court ruled.




					worldisraelnews.com
				




Judge finds sufficient evidence linking American group to Hamas supporters​May 22, 2022


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, dears. The entitled Islamic terrorists launched a ''scathing'' gee-had social media attack against Twitter. 

Gee whiz. One would think the Islamic terrorists would shun all things kuffar such as infidel innovated social media. 






			Hamas attacks 'anti-Palestinian' Twitter after account suspended
		





© (photo credit: REUTERS/IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA)Palestinian Hamas terrorists attend an anti-Israel rally in Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip May 27, 2021


Twitter has suspended the account of Palestinian terrorist group Hamas, the Gaza-based terror organization said on Saturday.

In a scathing attack on the social media platform, Hamas claimed that Twitter "insists on silencing Palestinian voices and fully siding with the Zionist narrative."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> If's long past time that the US and international community stop paying lslamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judge finds sufficient evidence linking American group to Hamas supporters | World Israel News
> 
> 
> Strong enough connections have been shown for the case to proceed, the U.S. court ruled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worldisraelnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judge finds sufficient evidence linking American group to Hamas supporters​May 22, 2022


Hogwash and bullshit. One thing that was not mentioned was giving money to Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

Justice came for another Islamic terrorist. 






			Israeli forces arrest brother of Palestinian Tel Aviv terrorist - report
		


Israeli security forces arrested on Monday evening the brother of Ra’ad Fathi Hazem, the Palestinian terrorist who killed three Israelis in the center of Tel Aviv in April, Palestinian media reported.


Footage from the West Bank appears to show Israeli forces making the arrest of the brother, Hamam Fathi Hazem, who was arrested near Nablus, the West Bank, according to reports


----------



## Hollie

Darwin to the rescue.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I never expected this to happen under the Biden geriatric tenure. 

UNRWA is better described as the ''_Islamic Terrorist Bank of Welfare_'' It effectively serves as a large welfare distribution system and terrorist training program that has no end in sight. UNRWA has been a notorious black hole of waste and gee-had funding for Islamic terrorist training and anti-Semitic ideology for more than six decades.











						US sanctions Hamas official, finance network
					

The sanctions target Hamas’ Investment Office, which holds assets estimated to be worth more than $500m.




					www.aljazeera.com
				




US sanctions Hamas official, finance network​_The sanctions target Hamas’ Investment Office, which holds assets estimated to be worth more than $500m_




The United States on Tuesday imposed sanctions on a Hamas finance official and a network of financial facilitators and companies that have generated revenue for the Palestinian group, the US Department of the Treasury said


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hogwash and bullshit.



_bon appétit_


----------



## Hollie

While Hamas is quick to instigate a confrontation, they're very quick to retreat when the IDF gets serious about retaliation.


----------



## Hollie

Dead Islamic terrorist walking?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

As Palestinianism spreads throughout the world, it attracts support because it presents itself as a national liberation movement that seeks to free itself from Israeli occupation, colonialism, oppression and persecution. An examination of its real agenda, however, available in the PLO Covenant, Hamas Charter and its daily messages, reveals its true intention: isolating and destroying Israel – a second Holocaust, if they could.


This explains why efforts to achieve a peaceful solution, such as the Oslo Accords, have failed. Unwittingly, calls for a two-state solution: a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), in addition to Jordan – which many consider to be or should be the already-existing second state – have contributed to confusion about why Palestinian leaders have rejected such proposals, and the consequences. Unfortunately, there seems to be an unwillingness to accept the reality of what Palestinianism means, and what is at stake – not only for Israel, but for the world.

Historical Background​The first time the concept of Eretz Yisrael (The Land of Israel) is seen as the land which God gave to the Jewish people to build a Jewish civilization is in Torah. This is confirmed in all Jewish texts and in Judaism; that is the meaning of the “homeland of the Jewish people.” It is why the First and Second Temples were built in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount. There is no such concept in Christianity, or Islam; these religions have holy places, but no specific “holy land.”

Palestinianism denies this historical fact, and denies the right of the Jewish people to reestablish a state in Eretz Yisrael. 


Ironically, Palestinianism presents a danger not only to Israel, but also to Islam: by focusing on Jerusalem as a holy city and the Temple Mount as holy (and exclusively) for Muslims, rather than the traditional holy cities of Medina and Mecca. This is not only ahistorical, but has no basis in the Quran, or in the writings of Islamic scholars. It uses Islam and Islamic references to legitimize violence and genocide.


This distortion had been promoted by Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, since 1920, and the Moslem Brotherhood since 1928, anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist organizations that have spread throughout the world, with affiliates on nearly all college and university campuses. It has been adopted by all Islamic organizations, most European countries and by most of the international community, including the UN. This has undermined the meaning, purpose, ethics and morality of Islam as a religion.

Palestinianism, therefore, is a threat to the ideals of Western civilization. It promotes violence against Jews as a value, and one which justifies suicidal attacks as a worthy ideal. That includes attacks against those who support Israel, and targets like New York City. It is what inspired Islamic leaders, such as al-Husseini, to instigate pogroms against Jews during the 1920s, 30s and 40s, and why he supported the Nazis and their “Final Solution.”


It was a way of turning Arab nationalism (as it was known before 1948) into a destructive force. It was and is the basis of the PLO, Hamas and other terrorist organizations. And it is the basis of “Jihad.” Palestinianism seeks to turn the world against the Jewish people, especially those in Israel. That is the meaning of Intifada.

(full article online)









						Palestinianism: The global Intifada - opinion
					

Palestinianism denies the historical fact that is Eretz Yisrael, and denies the right of the Jewish people to re-establish a state there.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The former jailer of Hamas’s leader in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Sinwar, has described the terror leader as “a coward” and a cruel and callous man who prefers to let others do his dirty work. However, she also said he is a very intelligent man who used his team in prison to learn as much as he could about the Israeli mindset.

In the early 2000s Betty Lahat, a former warden of Hasharon Prison and head of the Israel Prison Service’s Intelligence Department, was in charge of top security prisoners, among them Sinwar, Salah Shehade, Saleh al-Arouri, Marwan Barghouti and others.

In an interview with Maariv this week, Lahat said her impression of Sinwar was far-removed from that of the defiant Gaza resistance leader he now cultivates.

(full article online)









						Former jailer of Hamas head Sinwar: He’s a coward who used others for his dirty work
					

Betty Lahat says that while in prison, terror leader never took responsibility for incidents he helped instigate; remembers him 'falling apart' with fear when he had cancer




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The first time the concept of Eretz Yisrael (The Land of Israel) is seen as the land which God gave to the Jewish people to build a Jewish civilization is in Torah.


Why did the Jews accept part of "Eretz Yisrael" in 1947 when God had given them the whole pie?

BTW, Jesus spoke to a Canaanite woman. Obviously the Canaanites were still a recognized people still inhabiting their native land.

What makes you think that these are not the ancestors of the current native Palestinians?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Why did the Jews accept part of "Eretz Yisrael" in 1947 when God had given them the whole pie?
> 
> BTW, Jesus spoke to a Canaanite woman. Obviously the Canaanites were still a recognized people still inhabiting their native land.
> 
> What makes you think that these are not the ancestors of the current native Palestinians?


What Canaanite woman?  Which Nation?  Where is that Nation now?  They were not Arabs.

The Palestinians are Arabs, just ask them.  From their beloved land of Arabia Peninsula.

Where was that Canaanite woman from?

Yes, back then some Canaanite Nations were still recognizing themselves as such.  Not now.


And no, being born in the region of ancient Canaan, Palestine, is not the same as having created a Nation which is recognized as being an ancient one.

The Arab Palestinians are not ancient to the land of Palestine, they are ancient to the land of Arabia.

Any Arab clan will tell you as much with pride.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> What Canaanite woman?  Which Nation?  Where is that Nation now?  They were not Arabs.
> 
> The Palestinians are Arabs, just ask them.  From their beloved land of Arabia Peninsula.
> 
> Where was that Canaanite woman from?
> 
> Yes, back then some Canaanite Nations were still recognizing themselves as such.  Not now.
> 
> 
> And no, being born in the region of ancient Canaan, Palestine, is not the same as having created a Nation which is recognized as being an ancient one.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not ancient to the land of Palestine, they are ancient to the land of Arabia.
> 
> Any Arab clan will tell you as much with pride.


Holy obfuscation, Batman. That really ducks my question.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Holy obfuscation, Batman. That really ducks my question.


Quack, quack.  Again you did not like the answer.

The Arabs themselves have constantly told that they are not descended from the ancient Canaanites.

You do not like to listen.

Holy smokes.  Leave Batman alone.  He is not for thieves and terrorists which is what the Arab Palestinians have been since 1920.

And it is not Palestinian land, they have made that very clear.

It is ISLAMIC land.  Because Muslims conquered it, and they cannot let it go.

Very sore losers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[. No Human life is important enough for them.  If it kills their fellow Christian and Muslim Arabs, so be it !!!  ]

\


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Why did the Jews accept part of "Eretz Yisrael" in 1947 when God had given them the whole pie?
> 
> BTW, Jesus spoke to a Canaanite woman. Obviously the Canaanites were still a recognized people still inhabiting their native land.
> 
> What makes you think that these are not the ancestors of the current native Palestinians?



For the same reason, you don't do the effort to eat
all the food G-d has given you for the entire year.
Great nations that are overfed as empires are
paid in advance...like when one gives out
passing riches as inheritance, to keep
the best for the main part of history.

"Native Palestinians" is a dichotomy,
and even more for the Arabs...of all
the people they can't even
pronunce "P-alestine".

*(QUESTION)*

So what makes you
they're "native" beside
occupying a certain territory?


----------



## Hollie

Another Islamic 'expert'. 











						International Law Expert Samir Zaher to Palestine TV: Israel Steals Organs from Dead Palestinians, Gives Them to Zionists, Wounded Soldiers; The Rabbinate Sanctions This
					

Palestinian international law expert Samir Zaher said in a May 25, 2022 show on Palestine TV that Israel steals the orga...




					www.memri.org
				




International Law Expert Samir Zaher to Palestine TV: Israel Steals Organs from Dead Palestinians, Gives Them to Zionists, Wounded Soldiers; The Rabbinate Sanctions This​


----------



## Hollie

But remember. ''this is not a religious conflict'. 















						PA wants religious war, calls to fight Jerusalem flag parade | PMW Analysis
					

PA wants religious war, calls to fight Jerusalem flag parade




					palwatch.org
				




PA wants religious war, calls to fight Jerusalem flag parade​Itamar Marcus  | May 29, 2022



*Fatah inciting hate and religious war:
•    “[Palestinians,] don’t be negligent and don’t let their [Israeli] flags wave in our sky”
•    “With spirit, with blood, we will redeem you Al-Aqsa Mosque… Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar”  
•    “O coward [Jew], you must leave because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland”
•    “The Western Wall belongs only to believers of the religion of Islam”*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamism and Nazi ideology share a great deal in common. This was never more obvious than during WW2 when Hajj Amin al-Husseini was a close ally of Hitler.

This is why the so-called Pal Arabs still idolize Nazis ideology and have flown the Nazi flag.











						What do the Nazi-collaborating Grand Mufti and Terrorist Ahlam Tamimi have in common?
					

Like the Mufti, Ahlam Tamimi is popular in the Arab world. The US wants to maintain friendly relations with Jordan. Instead of acting like a superpower, giving a message to the world that the US will




					www.jewishpress.com


----------



## Hollie

I would hope the Great Satan will do the right thing and halt all welfare payments to the Islamic terrorists.













						Treasury Targets Covert Hamas Investment Network and Finance Official
					

WASHINGTON – Today, the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated a Hamas finance official as well as an expansive network of three Hamas financial facilitators and six companies that have generated revenue for the terrorist group through the management...




					home.treasury.gov
				




WASHINGTON – Today, the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated a Hamas finance official as well as an expansive network of three Hamas financial facilitators and six companies that have generated revenue for the terrorist group through the management of an international investment portfolio.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Odd, why did they not do it in Jordan, the 78% other part of Palestine ?  ]

On Sunday, the Palestinian "People's Democratic Party" in Lebanon organized a Palestinian flag march in Sidon, Lebanon - because they love to copy the people they hate.

The march had the slogan "Carry your flag and come, all you lovers of Palestine."

The participants in the march raised Palestinian flags, chanted in support of Al-Quds and Al-Aqsa, and concluded in the time honored Palestinian tradition of burning the American and Israeli flags.





I wonder if we can call this "provocative" and therefore justify violence in response? Or does that only work one way?










						Palestinians held their own "Flag March" in Lebanon, culminating with burning Israeli and US flags
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On May 3, Reporters Without Borders released their annual rankings of World Press Freedom.

No one seems to have noticed that the abysmal record of the freedom of media in the Palestinian territories plummeted even further.

In the 2021 rankings, "Palestine" came in as #132 out of 180 with a score of 56.82.

In 2022, it fell to #170 with a score of 28.98.

Here are the countries that it is comparable to:

166 Saudi Arabia 33.71
167 Bahrain 30.97
168 Egypt 30.23
169 Yemen 29.14
170 Palestine 28.98
171 Syria 28.94
172 Iraq 28.59
173 Cuba 27.32
174 Vietnam 26.11
175 China 25.17

The media generally regards any news that comes out from China or Yemen or Syria or Saudi Arabia as being automatically suspect because everyone knows that those countries have heavy control of the media, both direct and indirect. Their official statements are treated like the propaganda it is.

Yet statements from the Palestinian Authority - the organization that controls and limits the media - are still treated respectfully. Their media is quoted as if they are Western-style liberal outlets when in fact they are suppressed and threatened if they say the wrong thing. And the readers of these Western articles that quote Palestinian sources are never told that the media is suspect.

Even worse, the prevailing atmosphere under both Palestinian Authority and Hamas rule is that everyone knows there are certain things they simply cannot say, as a reporter or to a reporter. In recent days I showed that Palestinian journalists and eyewitnesses are well aware that there were other militants in Jenin near where Shireen Abu Akleh was - but they will never say that to CNN or AP. Once the official narrative is established, you won't find anyone to publicly contradict it. I've documented dozens of cases of "eyewitnesses" who know what they are allowed to say and what they are not. 

Also not mentioned in the report is that even foreign media is threatened to toe the government line, especially but not only in Gaza.

Perhaps the most absurd part is that the EU and UNESCOmarked World Press Freedom Day with the Palestinian Journalists' Syndicate in Ramallah this year, barely mentioning how terrible the situation is - but quick to blame Israel for the majority of issues with Palestinian press freedom.

The Palestinians have a narrative of blaming everything on Israel and downplaying the complete lack of freedoms under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas  - and the world happily plays along, even when they know the truth. 










						Palestinians near the rock bottom of press freedom. Why is no one talking about this?
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

During the month of Ramadan, official PA TV entertained viewers with different quizzes. One evident goal was to reinforce the PA’s vision of a world without Israel by presenting all of the State of Israel as “Palestine.” The answers of the participants, who were all residents of refugee camps, confirmed that the PA policy of denying Israel's right to exist in any borders – which Palestinian Media Watch has shown the PA has taught to Palestinians for decades - has become rooted in Palestinian consciousness everywhere.

Correct answers denying Israel's existence were rewarded by the PLO Department of Refugee Affairs with 20 Jordanian dinars, approximately $28.

In one quiz, a participant was asked about the borders of “Palestine.” Without blinking an eye, the man cited “the Mediterranean Sea, the Jordan River, Lebanon, and the Gulf of Aqaba” as borders, completely ignoring Israel's existence: 
























> *Official PA TV host:* “What borders Palestine from the four directions?”
> *Man:* “From the west is the Mediterranean Sea.”
> *Host:* “Nice.”
> *Man:* “From the east is the Jordan [River].”
> *Host: *“Right.”
> *Man:* “From the north is Lebanon.”
> *Host:* “And from the south?”
> *Man:* “From the south is the Gulf of Aqaba.” ...
> *Host: *“Correct answer. You won 20 [Jordanian] dinars, a gift from the [PLO] Department of Refugee [Affairs].”
> [Official PA TV, From the Refugee Camp, April 26, 2022]
> _This was filmed in the Khan Yunis refugee camp in the Gaza Strip_


In another episode, Israel's Mount Meron was classified as “the highest mountain in Palestine.” Moreover, the area of “Palestine” was established as “27,000 sq. km.” The area of the West Bank and Gaza Strip combined is less than 7,000 sq. km. The figure 27,000 sq. km. is the area of all of Israel (without the Golan Heights) in addition to the West Bank and Gaza: 























> Official PA TV host: “What is the highest mountain in Palestine?”
> Youth: “Mount Meron (i.e., in northern Israel)...
> Host: “Good job! You went to school for 10 years, but you still remember what you learned well. Correct answer...”
> Host: “If you answer the question you will receive 20 [Jordanian] dinars, a gift from the [PLO] Department for Refugee Affairs. Are you ready?”
> Youth: “Ready.”
> Host: “What is the total area of Palestine?”
> Youth: “27,000 meters.”
> Host: “27,000 sq. km. (i.e., all of Israel)?”
> Youth: “Yes...”
> Host: “It looks like he is sure of his knowledge. What do you say, guys? Is his answer correct? Correct! Your answer is correct.”
> [Official PA TV, From the Refugee Camp, April 17, 2022]
> _This was filmed in Nuseirat refugee camp in the Gaza Strip._




(full article online)









						PLO, PA TV promote world without Israel - even in TV quizzes | PMW Analysis
					

PLO, PA TV promote world without Israel - even in TV quizzes




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> But remember. ''this is not a religious conflict'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA wants religious war, calls to fight Jerusalem flag parade | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA wants religious war, calls to fight Jerusalem flag parade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA wants religious war, calls to fight Jerusalem flag parade​Itamar Marcus  | May 29, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> *Fatah inciting hate and religious war:
> •    “[Palestinians,] don’t be negligent and don’t let their [Israeli] flags wave in our sky”
> •    “With spirit, with blood, we will redeem you Al-Aqsa Mosque… Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar”
> •    “O coward [Jew], you must leave because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland”
> •    “The Western Wall belongs only to believers of the religion of Islam”*


It is not, but Israel likes to drag some religious freak from under a rock and make a video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib Delivers Powerful Speech About Palestine​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Support Dareen Tatour​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It is not, but Israel likes to drag some religious freak from under a rock and make a video.


You need to keep up


----------



## Hollie

They're day jobs involve standing in line to collect kuffar supplied welfare checks. 

But at night....












						Fatah Publishes Video Glorifying Members of the Palestinian Security Services Who Are "Fedayeen By Night"
					

On May 25, 2022, Fatah uploaded to its Facebook page a video titled "Security Services By Day, Fedayeen By Night," glori...




					www.memri.org
				




Fatah Publishes Video Glorifying Members of the Palestinian Security Services Who Are "Fedayeen By Night"​


----------



## Hollie

As one might expect, the Islamic terrorists are refusing an objective investigation into the death of Shireen Abu Akleh preferring instead to use her death for propaganda purposes, 












						Palestine frustrating investigations into Al Jazeera journalist's killing
					

After the shooting of veteran Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh in Jenin there have been many opinion articles and comments on the social media stating false news and incorrect facts.




					www.standardmedia.co.ke
				




Israel has promised that an objective joint investigation of the shooting, under strict American supervision, will take place to establish the truth.

Israel, being objective and realistic, has acknowledged the possibility that the reporter, could have been hit accidentally hit by either the Palestinian or the Israeli side. However, without a joint and objective investigation, there can be no conclusions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Working for you!*

Rashida Tlaib: 'Corporate Greed Is At The Core Of High Costs Of Gas'​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists like nothing more than parading dead bodies around. 












						Palestinian mob tried to hijack Shireen Abu Akleh's funeral so it would not be “as if a Christian died” | PMW Analysis
					

Palestinian mob tried to hijack Shireen Abu Akleh's funeral so it would not be “as if a Christian died”




					palwatch.org
				




Palestinian mob tried to hijack Shireen Abu Akleh's funeral so it would not be “as if a Christian died”​Itamar Marcus  | May 31, 2022











*Following a review of Al-Jazeera and PA TV recordings of Shireen Abu Akleh's funeral, PMW can report three striking facts:

1- The motivation of the Palestinians who took her coffin to carry it on their shoulders and by foot was to avoid a funeral “as if a Christian woman died.”*

*2- Abu Akleh’s family had wanted her body taken by hearse to the church for the funeral, and not carried through the streets of Jerusalem.*

*3- When the hearse arrived to take the coffin to the church, the Palestinian mob that had gathered at the hospital prevented the car from reaching the entrance and receiving Abu Akleh's body. Instead, it was the Palestinian mob that snatched the coffin and thereby disrupted the funeral. Israeli Police prevented further disruption.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists occasionally find women to be of value for something. 











						Palestinian Security Services Spokesman Maj.-Gen. Talal Dweikat Praises Palestinian Women, Says Terrorists Dalal Al-Mughrabi And Israa Jaabis Are Role Models Of Martyrdom, Sacrifice
					

In a May 27, 2022 broadcast on Palestine TV, Palestinian Security Services Spokesman Major-General Talal Dweikat, who is...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Security Services Spokesman Maj.-Gen. Talal Dweikat Praises Palestinian Women, Says Terrorists Dalal Al-Mughrabi And Israa Jaabis Are Role Models Of Martyrdom, Sacrifice​


----------



## Hollie

What else would one expect from a diseased, islamic terrorist enlave that celebrates murder and mayhem. 









						A Palestinian Celebration of ‘Empress of Terror’ Fusako Shigenobu
					

In 1969, members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror group are pictured flaunting their weapons …




					www.algemeiner.com
				




A Palestinian Celebration of ‘Empress of Terror’ Fusako Shigenobu


----------



## Sixties Fan

As mentioned, before Palestinian terror groups decided not to start a promised war to stop the Flag March on Yom Yerushalayim, Palestinian  media was inciting to violence and psyching up the people for another war.

Here are some cartoons from Felesteen that are self-explanatory.

















After the Palestinian terror group decision not to start a war, this cartoon expresses frustration over the lack of response by the *rest *of the Arab world towards Israel's actions in Jerusalem because of normalization:













						Palestinian cartoons inciting to violence
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Another loser at life.


----------



## Hollie

It seems like a pretty formula. Continuing to shower Islamic terrorist with welfare cash will continue to allow Islamic terrorists to pay their killers. 












						Palestinian Authority Awards $150M to Families of Terrorists Prompting Push for Taylor Force Follow-Up
					

More than $150 million – that's what the Palestinian Authority paid to the families of terrorists in 2020. Their "Pay to Slay" policy is still in force, using your American tax dollars to fund terror campaigns.




					www1.cbn.com
				




More than $150 million – that's what the Palestinian Authority paid to the families of terrorists in 2020. Their "Pay to Slay" policy is still in force, using your American tax dollars to fund terror campaigns.


----------



## Sixties Fan




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## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


Or any city in the US.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Or any city in the US.


No city in the US accuses Canada or Mexico of their wows.

The people in Gaza accuse Hamas for keeping them poor and at war with Israel.

That is the difference.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Pallys respecting another''most holy site" of Islamism.


----------



## Hollie

Ahmad will be doing his gee-had from an Israeli hoosegow, praying to Mecca over the toilet from _cell_ _block_ "C"












						Hamas terrorist gets life sentence for 2019 murder of Israeli student
					

A military court gave Ahmad Asafra life plus 25 years and ordered him to pay the family of Dvir Sorek $450,000 in damages.The post Hamas terrorist gets life sentence for




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




An Israeli military court on Tuesday sentenced the Hamas terrorist Ahmad Asafra to life in prison plus 25 years for the 2019 murder of Dvir Sorek. Asafra was also ordered to pay $450,000 to Sorek family


----------



## Hollie

Despite the islamo-bluster about ''explosions' across the Middle East resultibg from the Israeli flag day, the Middle East didn't blink an eye.

The pallys were pounding their korans and nobody cared.








__





						What stopped Hamas from attacking Israel on Jerusalem Day?
					





					www.msn.com
				




Since the beginning of the week, Hamas officials have been struggling to explain why their group did not respond to the Flag March, which took place in the Old City of Jerusalem to mark Jerusalem Day on Sunday.

Prior to the march, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and other Palestinian groups warned of an “explosion” in the entire Middle East if the Israeli government would allow “extremist settlers” to raise the Israeli flag at Damascus Gate, the Muslim Quarter or the Aqsa Mosque compound. They also hinted that they would attack Israel if it “crossed the redlines.”


----------



## Hollie

Pallys are whining about corruption in their mini-caliphates. Don't they understand that gee-had involves Islamic terrorist franchises making a profit?












						Majority of Palestinians believe corruption increased, poll finds
					

The results showed that widespread corruption poses the most important challenge to the Palestinians, followed by the “occupation,” economic issues, and the dispute between the PA and Hamas.




					www.jpost.com
				




Most Palestinians believe that corruption in Palestinian Authority institutions has increased in 2021, according to a public opinion poll published on Tuesday.


----------



## Sixties Fan

NPR has a segment pretending to analyze the very valid reasons why Palestinian terrorists from Jenin try to kill Jews in Tel Aviv cafes by interviewing his gracious host, one uncle of the terrorist who murdered three in a Tel Aviv cafe in April.

NPR justifies terror and humanizes terrorists.




> What *compelled *a young Palestinian man to open fire at a bar in Tel Aviv last month? It was one of several deadly attacks in Israel that has sparked a military crackdown in the occupied West Bank, where a prominent journalist was recently killed covering an Israeli raid. NPR's Daniel Estrin visited the Jenin refugee camp to trace one early spark that ignited the latest flames.
> 
> 
> 
> DANIEL ESTRIN: Amin Khazem* invites us* to his rooftop porch in the Jenin refugee camp.
> 
> From your rooftop, you can see the whole camp.
> 
> AMIN KHAZEM: Yes.
> 
> ESTRIN: *What are you growing here? *All these rooftop plants, what are these?
> 
> KHAZEM: Small oranges.
> 
> ESTRIN: Amin is also raising two parrots ...And looking after his 5-year-old grandson, whose T-shirt, shorts and shoes feature the silhouette of an M-16.
> 
> 
> 
> Here, the culture in the refugee camp is a culture of jihad and martyrdom," Amin says. They carry the memories of their families' old villages, destroyed when Israel was created.
> 
> KHAZEM: (Speaking Arabic).
> 
> ESTRIN: Wow. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine - can't even count how many bullet holes are - oh, on that wall, too.
> 
> KHAZEM: *From the Israeli army.*



In his Twitter thread on the story, Estrin says that the IDF took over Khazem's rooftop in 2002 in Jenin - meaning that the bullet holes are likely from Palestinians shooting at the Israelis, not from the IDF. But he doesn't bother to clarify that in the NPR story.




> ESTRIN: Scars from a major battle with Palestinian militia 20 years ago. It was the Palestinian uprising. Young men from this camp were going to Israel to carry out deadly attacks. Israel stormed the camp and destroyed hundreds of homes. Amin's 29-year-old nephew Raad watched all of this when he was this little boy's age. One night last month, Raad wasn't home in the camp.
> 
> (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING) UNIDENTIFIED JOURNALIST: A Palestinian assailant opened fire inside a crowded Tel Aviv bar, killing three Israelis.
> 
> ESTRIN: Hundreds of Israeli officers and armed civilians launched a manhunt through the streets of Tel Aviv. Officers say they found Raad at dawn and killed him in a firefight.
> 
> KHAZEM: (Speaking Arabic).
> 
> ESTRIN: Amin says the family was shocked. *Raad was a techie. He invested in Bitcoin and was financially stable*. But his uncle says neighbors shot Raad in the legs several months ago in a dispute over a loan. He says Raad wanted to shoot them back, but the family convinced him to reconcile. He did, and *a week later, he was in Tel Aviv*. Did this *personal anguish *drive him to kill Israelis, knowing he likely wouldn't come back alive?
> 
> KHAZEM: (Speaking Arabic).
> 
> ESTRIN: *Amin denies any connection. He says Israel links Palestinian attacks to personal hardship to undermine the fight for Palestinian rights.* Raad's father was a senior commander in the Palestinian security forces, trained by the U.S. to round up gunmen, bring order and prepare the ground for an independent Palestine. But here, Palestinians are fed up with their own security forces who brought no security and no independence.
> 
> KHAZEM: (Speaking Arabic).
> 
> ESTRIN: He says, "we fell in love with the United Nations Security Council and the International Criminal Court in the Arab states and ended up with delusions*. People have reached a dead end. There's no horizon that we we will be liberated without us liberating ourselves."* He says the camp is full of guns.



It doesn't take much to realize that Ra'ad was humiliated at not being able to take revenge on being shot by his neighbors, but once his family convinced him not to, he had to regain his honor somehow - and killing Jews is always a reliable method to do that.

In fact, this was alluded to in a video from another of Ra'ad's uncles, who praised the murderer for shooting Israelis *instead *of his fellow Palestinians - which is what he wanted to do!




Khazem can be seen is in the background of this video of the other raving uncle.

Estrin simply accepted the words of the terrorist's uncle - which is the Palestinian narrative that justifies all murders of Jews as a natural response to Israeli actions. 

Notice that they aren't featuring any interviews with the victims' families. Only the terrorists must be understood and sympathized with. 

(h/t Daniel)

*UPDATE*: The first picture above has what looks like notone but two swastikas on Khazem's wall. (h/t Ian)









						NPR and the poor, misunderstood terrorists
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Another clown show that seems to define pally'dom.












						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah Reacts To Turkish FM's Visit To Israel: Erdoğan Is Courting The Jews; After Anwar Sadat Visited Israel, Allah Sent A Hero To Slaughter Him
					

In a May 29, 2022 video posted on the website of Al-Waqiyah TV (Hizb ut-Tahrir), Palestinian Islamic scholar Yousef Makh...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousef Makharzah Reacts To Turkish FM's Visit To Israel: Erdoğan Is Courting The Jews; After Anwar Sadat Visited Israel, Allah Sent A Hero To Slaughter Him​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Looks like the Israelis are getting more proactive in countering Islamic terrorism. 











						Break the Wave: Palestinian terrorism suspect arrested - I24NEWS
					

Saturday night's arrest in West Bank part of 'Break the Wave' operation - Click the link for more details




					www.i24news.tv
				




Israeli forces arrested a Palestinian suspected of involvement in terrorist activities on Saturday night in the West Bank, the Israeli army said.

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were working on the operation with Border Police and the Shin Bet internal security service.


----------



## Hollie

Another of the pompous, talking heads that seems to define the Islamic terrorist politburo. 












						Senior Fatah Official Majed Al-Fityani: Only The Palestinians Will Have Sovereignty In Palestine, From The River To The Sea; We Will Go After The Israelis And Wrest Our Rights From Them
					

Majed Al-Fityani, the Secretary of Fatah's Revolutionary Council, said in a May 29, 2022 interview on Awda TV (Palestini...




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Fatah Official Majed Al-Fityani: Only The Palestinians Will Have Sovereignty In Palestine, From The River To The Sea; We Will Go After The Israelis And Wrest Our Rights From Them​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

We're told by the keyboard gee-had wannabe that 'this is not a religious war".

Strange, that. The islamic terrorists insist it is. 










						Who is fanning the flames for religious war? Abbas’ advisor! | PMW Analysis
					

Who is fanning the flames for religious war? Abbas’ advisor!




					palwatch.org
				




Who is fanning the flames for religious war? Abbas’ advisor!
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jun 7, 2022
Abbas’ advisor creates fear, anger, and hate - and incites violence:

•    “The occupation wants to change its [Jerusalem’s] identity and character so that it will be a city without the Al-Aqsa Mosque and without the Dome of the Rock”

•    The Palestinian people is “not defending only its existence in Jerusalem and only the Al-Aqsa Mosque, but also Islam, the Quran, and the entire Islamic nation”

•    The Palestinian people “is continuing to defend Palestine, including the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque… we will defend Jerusalem with our property and our lives”

•    “Jerusalem will again be free… Allah’s victory is approaching”


----------



## Hollie

The common theme connecting Al Qaeda, Taliban, the various Pally groups is a brutish, retrograde ideology that has never managed to claw its way out of the 7th century.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


You're quite the gee-had cowboy. Urging on children by flailing your Pom Poms from the basement in Kuffar'ville.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Just the usual way the Arabs-Moslems groom their sociopaths.. 











						Proud sisters: In the PA, siblings are taught to admire their murderer brothers | PMW Analysis
					

Proud sisters: In the PA, siblings are taught to admire their murderer brothers




					palwatch.org
				




Proud sisters: In the PA, siblings are taught to admire their murderer brothers​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 8, 2022
*Proud sisters: In the PA, siblings are taught to admire their murderer brothers
•    Sister of terrorist who sent suicide bomber who murdered 21: “We are proud of him and all that he did”
•    Sister of murderer who killed 3 with an axe: “I’m proud of you for what you did”*



On a regular basis, the PA glorifies terrorists who have attacked, wounded, and/or succeeded murdering Israelis. As Palestinians express joy over their relatives’ martyrdom-death in a terror attack, so too they express their pride in their terrorist relatives who are imprisoned for murdering Israelis. 
Recently two sisters declared their pride in their two imprisoned terrorist brothers.
Amjad Ubeidi, an Islamic Jihad terrorist who is serving 23 life sentences, is a source of pride for his family because he sent female suicide bomber Hanadi Jaradat to carry out a suicide attack at a restaurant in Haifa on Oct. 4, 2003. There she murdered 21 people and wounded over 50:


----------



## Hollie

No. Nazi ideology is not the right side of history but its the side pallys aligned with.


----------



## Hollie

Just another rung on the ladder of absurdity and bias that defines the UN HRC.


----------



## Hollie

Squids, squads and flagrant displays of Islamic terrorist symbols.

Lovely.


----------



## P F Tinmore

‘These Chains Will Be Broken’: Delving into the Heart of Palestinian Resistance​


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ‘These Chains Will Be Broken’: Delving into the Heart of Palestinian Resistance​



Explain this to me,
what_ 'heart'_ is in wishing
the death of your children?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Explain this to me,
> what_ 'heart'_ is in wishing
> the death of your children?


You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You need to update your propaganda.


You need to reconsider your Pom Pom flailing for children being used as a disposable commodity for war material.


----------



## Hollie

Not at all shocking. 

Pally retrogrades groom their children from an early age to believe their deaths in the course of gee-had is desirable and will please Allah. 












						Shocking farewell-will left by Palestinian teen seeking death as a Martyr | PMW Analysis
					

Shocking farewell-will left by Palestinian teen seeking death as a Martyr




					palwatch.org
				




Shocking farewell-will left by Palestinian teen seeking death as a Martyr


Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 9, 2022
“He cannot stand cold … [don’t] put the body in a refrigerator”
"[He] cannot stand being alone. He invited his friends and his relatives to always visit him and sit next to his grave”

He wanted to be buried among other child Martyrs

Yet another Palestinian teen has actively sought Martyrdom-death and achieved his goal in a confrontation with Israel.

Palestinian Media Watch has documented the PA and Fatah’s massive propaganda efforts promoting death as a “Martyr” for “Palestine” and Allah – even for Palestinian children.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


The only way Jews don’t get murdered is if there is a Jewish state,

That is crazy. Jews are safer in Gaza than in Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> That is crazy. Jews are safer in Gaza than in Israel.



Safer as hostages of Islamists
who put the Swastika on their flag?

That's why we have you here talking about 'crazy'.


----------



## Hollie

It has gotten much more dangerous for Israeli citizens as Islamic terrorists have ramped up the gee-had. 

Time to ramp up the anti gee-had ops.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

That little slice of sociopathic hell has a new enemy to eradicate.

Pally sociopaths hate themselves, hate each other and found another group to hate. 












						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Nidhal Siam at Al-Aqsa Mosque Rally: The Only Response to the “Cow-Worshipping” Hindus’ Affront to the Prophet Muhammad is to Declare Jihad to Eradicate Them
					

...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Scholar Nidhal Siam at Al-Aqsa Mosque Rally: The Only Response to the “Cow-Worshipping” Hindus’ Affront to the Prophet Muhammad is to Declare Jihad to Eradicate Them​


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. The Islamic terrorists may have to prostrate themselves before the Iranian Mullahs and beg for more Mullah'bucks.













						IDF seizes over NIS 1 million in Hamas funds
					

Business used to launder funds to Hamas terrorist organization in Judea and Samaria raided and closed.




					www.israelnationalnews.com
				




IDF seizes over NIS 1 million in Hamas funds​Business used to launder funds to Hamas terrorist organization in Judea and Samaria raided and closed.​Israel National News
09.06.22 15:55
HamasIDFTerrorist Funding


----------



## Jay Stone

Art__Allm said:


> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> What "Zionist teachings" of what "Jesus" are you following?
> 
> Do you know what Talmud writes about Jesus from Nazareth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we see, according to the Koran, Jesus was the son of God, a Muslim prophet.
> 
> According to the Talmud Jesus was neither the son of God, nor a prophet.
> 
> So how on earth can Jesus be a teacher of Zionism?


Jesus is called King of Israel in the NT. He believed that the Kingdom of Israel would come into being which he would preside over. Pretty Zionist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Jay Stone said:


> Jesus is called King of Israel in the NT. He believed that the Kingdom of Israel would come into being which he would preside over. Pretty Zionist.


The creator of this thread has not posted here in years.  Go to the newest posts.


----------



## Jay Stone

Art__Allm said:


> Wrong, Muslims do not accept that Jesus was himself the God (Allah), but they accept that he was the son of God (Allah).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only those Muslims, that are supported or instigated by Zionists.
> 
> BTW, what about Jesus in the Talmud?
> Why do you not comment on this issue?
> Do Jews believe that Jesus was the son of God, like Muslims do?


Um, no. Associating anyone with God in Islam is shirk, an unforgivable sin in Islam. Jesus is viewed as a Jewish prophet in Islam, though surpassed by Muhammad.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Per data from 2021, Hamas remains the 2nd richest Islamic terrorist franchise.

The ''poor, oppressed pallys'', marketing slogan has been a fraud to make the top of the Islamic terrorist pyramid scheme an effective welfare fraud scheme.  











						Treasury Targets Covert Hamas Investment Network and Finance Official - HS Today
					

As of 2018, Hamas elements held about 75 percent of the issued capital at Turkey-based company Trend GYO.




					www.hstoday.us
				




Treasury Targets Covert Hamas Investment Network and Finance Official​
As of 2018, Hamas elements held about 75 percent of the issued capital at Turkey-based company Trend GYO.

ByHomeland Security Today
May 30, 2022


----------



## Hollie

The Pallys are in a snitty twit about their failure to bring any gee-had killing during the Israeli Flag Day march. Like petulant, sociopathic children, they’ve launched into some really, really angry tirades with their most Jew haten’ist epithets.











						Having failed to instigate violence to prevent Israeli celebrations, PA reverts to open Antisemitism and rewriting history | PMW Analysis
					

Having failed to instigate violence to prevent Israeli celebrations, PA reverts to open Antisemitism and rewriting history




					palwatch.org
				




“Thousands of Israelis, and *especially the inferior among them – the settlers *– participated in the Israeli [Jerusalem Day] flag march. But the general impression received by everyone is that this march was foolish and unsuccessful on all levels…
No one reacted to the lies to which the settlers clinged, and Jerusalem remained wrapped in holy garb that was not harmed *despite the wild behavior of the monkeys and their leaping about…*

You are not an orphan, Palestine, as the people… that initiated the stone rebellion… is *not like those fools who set out on the flag march*, and who do not know what fate awaits them.”

[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 1, 2022]


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Arab conquered lands, those countries formed last century are now rejecting the Palestinians.  As they should have done from the start ]


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Arab conquered lands, those countries formed last century are now rejecting the Palestinians.  As they should have done from the start ]



Good news.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

“How can the EU want closer ties with Israel while funding terror NGOs?”​
It seems like an obvious question. Another obvious question is, “why does the international community continue to fund Pally Islamic terrorism?











						How can the EU want closer ties with Israel while funding terror NGOs?
					

Between 2011 and 2021, the EU raised a total of €200 million for PFLP which is designated as a terror organization.




					m.jpost.com
				




The EU’s highest-ranking executive, Ursula von der Leyen, is set to arrive in Israel this week on her first official visit since the Bennett-Lapid government took office. While most coverage will portray the visit as reflecting improved ties between Jerusalem and Brussels, her visit also marks six months since the Israeli government designated six Palestinian NGOs as terror fronts. This decision was originally met with criticism by the European Commission.


----------



## Hollie

You might think it’s from a comedy skit but it’s deadly serious. It’s literally funding Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

From the, "poor, oppressed Pallys ", file.


----------



## Hollie

Pallys are so ungrateful. It's like the islamic terrorist kingpins don't deserve nice things.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Suzy Ashkantna is an 8-year-old survivor of the brutal massacre that Israeli occupation forces committed during the aggression on Gaza in May 2021.*
Watch this video to know more about her:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Suzy Ashkantna is an 8-year-old survivor of the brutal massacre that Israeli occupation forces committed during the aggression on Gaza in May 2021.*
> Watch this video to know more about her:


You should be flailing your Pom Poms.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists are threatening a “Shireen intifada”. Dress code is business casual and 2 hr. open bar. Details to follow. 












						Fatah official calls for terror: “Allah willing there will be a Shireen Intifada, a Jenin Intifada, a Jerusalem Intifada… this intifada will be the Liberation Intifada” | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah official calls for terror: “Allah willing there will be a Shireen Intifada, a Jenin Intifada, a Jerusalem Intifada… this intifada will be the Liberation Intifada”




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah official calls for terror: “Allah willing there will be a Shireen Intifada, a Jenin Intifada, a Jerusalem Intifada… this intifada will be the Liberation Intifada”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 13, 2022



A few days after Palestinian-American journalist for Al-Jazeera Shireen Abu Akleh was shot and killed while covering a gun battle initiated by Palestinian terrorists who attacked Israeli forces during an operation in Jenin on May 11, 2022, a Fatah official called for a new Palestinian wave of terror. In fact, he called for several waves of terror – intifadas – one of which he suggested be named after Shireen Abu Akleh.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A family in Gaza has accused Hamas of torturing their son to death in prison.

The Al-Hasanat family wrote a letter to various authorities claiming that Nawaf Al-Hasanat, who had a wife and six children, was arrested in November over a land dispute and was in Hamas prison until he died last week.

Meanwhile, the PA was accused of torturing Hamas members in a Jericho prison. The "Lawyers for Justice" NGO says that 15 Hamas members who were recently arrested by the Palestinian security services in Ramallah "are subjected to very, very severe torture."

One prisoner, Ahmed Al-Khasib, appeared in court yesterday, unable to speak due to the severity of torture. Another detainee, Ahmed Harish, could not control himself in front of the Jericho Court today and started crying during his court appearance.

As usual, when Israel cannot be blamed, people show no interest in the fate of Palestinian prisoners. 











						Hamas and the PA accuse each other of torturing prisoners. (They're both right.)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorists spend their every waking moment utterly obsessed with Jews,












						Fatah applauds Arab hitting religious Jew: “May your hands be blessed, hero | PMW Analysis
					

Fatah applauds Arab hitting religious Jew: “May your hands be blessed, hero




					palwatch.org
				




Fatah applauds Arab hitting religious Jew: “May your hands be blessed, hero​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 15, 2022



Abbas’ Fatah party posted a video on Facebook of an Arab hitting a religious Jew in Jerusalem. Text on the video, which was produced by the digital media department of the Fatah-run Awdah TV station, said:


> ”May your hands be blessed.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> a gun battle initiated by Palestinian terrorists who attacked Israeli forces during an operation in Jenin on May 11, 2022,


That makes no sense. How can you attack anybody from your home?


----------



## Hollie

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

The inventor of Pallys. An Egyptian thief.


----------



## Hollie

So often, it's groups acting as charities that are big enablers of islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Pallys don’t realize they make themselves pompous buffoons with these silly pronouncements. 

It’s a bit like the silly “open the gates of hell” that used to be a standard. 













						PA: World War III if Jews are allowed to pray on the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest site  | PMW Analysis
					

PA: World War III if Jews are allowed to pray on the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest site




					palwatch.org
				




PA: World War III if Jews are allowed to pray on the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest site​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 16, 2022
*PA officials threaten religious war over Jews visiting the Temple Mount and alleged “division of prayer times” between Muslim and Jewish worshippers: *

*“This will be tantamount to an attack on a billion Muslims in the world – which means the buds of a religious war… He added: ‘The religious war will not stop at the borders of the region and the borders of the Palestinian people, but rather will reach the US, Europe, and the entire world” *
*“Continued invasion (i.e., Jews visiting) will turn the conflict into a religious war that will exterminate everything” *
Israel's actions in Jerusalem will lead to a “religious war… [that] will reach the US, Europe, and the entire world,” and “will exterminate everything.” These are threats coming from PA Chairman Abbas’ official spokesmen and advisors. However, all these PA warnings and threats are based on libels and lies.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Hollie said:


> “This will be tantamount to an attack on a billion Muslims in the world – which means the buds of a religious war…



Arabs love getting their asses kicked.


----------



## Hollie

Isn’t that nice. Hamas doing everything they can to become an international Islamic terrorist franchise.

ISIS envy?











						Philippine Police: Hamas Plot to Attack Foreigners Uncovered
					

An unnamed informant said he met several times in Malaysia with a Palestinian group leader.




					www.benarnews.org
				




Philippine police uncovered a plot by the Palestinian militant group Hamas to recruit Filipinos for attacks against foreign nationals in the Southeast Asian country, an official said Tuesday.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Making Peace with Israel is the only way these young men will grow to be old men and live a useful life.  But being Muslims, they are doomed ]


----------



## Hollie

Call'em sociopaths, hyper-religious or just call'em predictable.


----------



## Hollie

Those ''poor, oppressed pallys''?

They don't need jobs when gee-had is a religious duty... and a UN welfare agency pays for it.  














						Israel Suspends Increase in Entry Permits for Palestinian Workers from Gaza
					

Israel said Saturday it was suspending an increase in entry permits for Palestinian workers from Gaza announced earlier this week in response to rocket fire from the Gaza Strip. Israeli warplanes hit Hamas military sites in Gaza in retaliation for th




					english.aawsat.com
				




Israel said Saturday it was suspending an increase in entry permits for Palestinian workers from Gaza announced earlier this week in response to rocket fire from the Gaza Strip.

Israeli warplanes hit Hamas military sites in Gaza in retaliation for the rocket fire from the Palestinian enclave, the Israeli army said.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A concert that was supposed to take place in Ramallah over the weekend for the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) community was called off following threats from Palestinian activists.


East Jerusalem singer-songwriter and video artist Bashar Murad was supposed to perform at the concert, which was scheduled to be held at Al-Mustawda3 Cultural Center on Friday night.

-----
"Don't test our patience"​The leader of the group, Yaman Jarrar, is the son of prominent Hamas preacher and YouTube figure Sheikh Bassam Jarrar, who is famous for his “prophecy” that Israel will cease to exist in 2022.


In the video, Yaman is heard telling people at the center: “There’s a guy called Bashar Murad who’s supposed to hold a party here today. Bashar Murad is gay. This person is banned from holding a concert. He does not represent us or any of our free people. We came here to advise you in a respectful manner. We are talking to you in a nice way; don’t test our patience. Anyone who dares to harm our religion will be crossing a redline.”



(full article online)









						Palestinian activists ban ‘LGBT party’ in Ramallah
					

East Jerusalem singer-songwriter and video artist Bashar Murad was supposed to perform at the concert, which was cancelled following threats from Palestinian activists.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




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## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

There's a new(er) pally islamic terrorist franchise, one that's looking to do a "march of return", this time marching to return to the 
European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium. 

Many may not know this but Belgium was one of a host of "new states" invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 when the Treaty invented the "country of Pal'istan". As you may know, Belgium is described as Islam'isms 8,043rd "most holy site"

All seriousness aside, I suppose the welfare money showered on the Pally terrorists and the personal fortunes that money creates for islamic terrorists creates a draw for all sorts of islamo-cretins.   





			Terrorism-linked NGO praising 'armed resistance' to march in Brussels
		


An anti-Israel NGO praising "armed resistance" is set to conduct a "march of return" at the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, on October 29, the group announced on Tuesday.

Palestinian Alternative Revolutionary Path Movement, also known as Masar Badil, is calling on Palestinians and revolutionary groups to join it in an "international Palestinian popular march" in Brussels.


----------



## Hollie

An underling of the "moderate" Islamic terrorist dictator running the Fatah franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc._, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, has taken a page from the playbook of "the world's most successful islamic terrorist"; Yassir Arafat, and is deciding that gee-had is the way to achieve his slice of the welfare fraud pie. 











						Fatah official incites terror, new intifada to be called ‘Liberation Intifada’
					

Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki said: “I think that the Palestinian people are on the brink of a great intifada.”The post Fatah official incites terror, new intifada to be




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




A few days after Shireen Abu Akleh, a Palestinian American journalist working for _Al Jazeera_, was shot and killed while covering a gunfight in Jenin initiated by Palestinian terrorists, a Fatah official called for a new wave of Palestinian terror.

According to a report by Palestinian Media Watch, Fatah Nablus Branch Secretary Muhammad Hamdan said the goal of that effort would be the “liberation” of “Palestine.”




Yes. "Muhammad" is calling for gee-had. Wasn't there a 7th century Arab warlord who had this "thing" with Jews? I thought I read something about that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

NGP Talks with Susan Abulhawa​


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. There's trouble in islamo-paradise. 












						Palestinian Political Analyst Zaid Al-Ayoubi Speaks Out against Hamas: How Can We Forget That Hamas Threw Fatah Members Off Rooftops, Stores Explosives in Densely Populated Areas; Both Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood Are Complicit in Hamas's Crimes
					

In a June 14, 2022 show on Awda TV (Palestinian Authority), Palestinian lawyer and political analyst Zaid Al-Ayoubi crit...




					www.memri.org
				




*Palestinian Political Analyst Zaid Al-Ayoubi Speaks Out against Hamas: How Can We Forget That Hamas Threw Fatah Members Off Rooftops, Stores Explosives in Densely Populated Areas; Both Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood Are Complicit in Hamas's Crimes*​


----------



## Hollie

Pally gunmen occupying the West Bank will mean consequences. 












						Israeli forces kill three Palestinian gunmen in Jenin
					

Israeli troops killed three Palestinian gunmen in the occupied West Bank on Friday in what Israel described as the foiling of an attack but the Palestinian leadership cast as a bid to hamstring next month's visit by U.S. President Joe Biden.




					www.reuters.com
				




JENIN, West Bank, June 17 (Reuters) - Israeli troops killed three Palestinian gunmen in the occupied West Bank on Friday in what Israel described as the foiling of an attack but the Palestinian leadership cast as a bid to hamstring next month's visit by U.S. President Joe Biden.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Flags​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Uncivilized​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fadi Elsalameen is a political commentator on Arab-Israeli affairs and an adjunct senior fellow at the American Security Project. He's a vocal critic of Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, and he has received several death threats and survived an assassination attempt.

Elsalameen believes that an important step in liberating Palestinians is monetary freedom—specifically bitcoin, which can help them bypass the Palestinian Authority's control over their finances. In April, he spoke with _Reason_'s Noor Greene at the Bitcoin 2022 conference in Miami.

Q: What role does the Palestinian Authority play in Palestine today?

A: The Palestinian Authority is a burden on the Palestinian population. Almost 84 percent of the population believes that the Palestinian Authority is corrupt. We've spent almost $40 billion inside the Palestinian territories since 1993, and there's very little to show for that money. But we do have very wealthy politicians. Most of the economic sector is monopolized by politicians who are directly linked to the president. And the president is in his 18th year though he was only elected for a four-year term.

Q: As a Palestinian, how would you face corruption from the Palestinian Authority?

A: The majority of the Palestinian economy depends on labor in Israel. If you're a Palestinian worker, you need a permit to enter Israel to work, which is provided for free by the Israelis. But you have to pay the corrupt Palestinian official, who's now the minister of civil affairs, $500 a month to maintain your permit. So they levy a tax on you as a worker. If you are a Palestinian living under the Palestinian Authority, under the Israeli occupation, you're really battling all kinds of forces, whether it be corruption, military occupation, a lack of freedom, a lack of expression, or no independence whatsoever.

Q: Where does aid go that the U.S. and other countries send to Palestine?

A: Sadly, the aid that is sent by the U.S. or Europe mostly goes to benefit corrupt Palestinian officials. And if you're sending aid to strengthen and embolden corruption, you're fighting against democracy. We need to step back for a second, not only to stop the aid, but stop the way the aid is being sent. That's why we talked about introducing bitcoin into the equation. Bitcoin is a solution where the Palestinian Authority is not involved, the banks are not involved, and it's direct aid from the United States.


(full article online)









						Fadi Elsalameen on Using Bitcoin To Fight Corruption in Palestine
					

Fadi Elsalameen is a political commentator on Arab-Israeli affairs and an adjunct senior fellow at the American Security Project. He's...




					reason.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Flags​



Jews are 10% of the Old City?
They're gaining on you!!!


----------



## Hollie

The pallys will never let a conspiracy theory get in the way of a reality based worldview. 

Their every waking moment is consumed by _Jew Fixation Syndrome_ as they gradually fade Into the abyss of irrelevance, 













						There is no Israeli organ theft - top PA forensic medicine official refutes PA libel | PMW Analysis
					

There is no Israeli organ theft - top PA forensic medicine official refutes PA libel




					palwatch.org
				




There is no Israeli organ theft - top PA forensic medicine official refutes PA libel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 20, 2022

*Senior Forensic Medicine official:* 
*“All the Martyrs we have checked and seen, none of them had any theft of their organs.”*

*  Nontheless, Fatah official repeats PA organ theft libel: *
*“Israeli market traders and medical faculties steal organs from dead Palestinian prisoners” *



A top PA official in forensic medicine recently refuted the PA libel that Israel steals organs from dead terrorist prisoners and dead terrorists – so-called “Martyrs”:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Bella Hadid Calls Out Instagram for Censoring Her Palestine Post​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mohammad al-Halabi, the former head of Gaza operations for Christian aid group World Vision, was recently convicted on a number of charges, including being a member of a terrorist organization, giving information to terrorists and taking part in “militant training exercises.”

In addition, Halabi was found to have channeled millions of dollars from his charity employers to the US and EU-designated terror group Hamas, prior to his arrest in 2016.

The Beersheba District Court found him guilty on all bar one charge, which was assisting the enemy, on the grounds that, as a Gaza Strip resident, he is not a citizen of the State of Israel.

The judges, who revealed there was a significant amount of documentary evidence to support Halabi’s guilt, described him as repeatedly changing his testimony “in order to justify his lies” and making “contradictory and illogical statements in an attempt to explain away his detailed confession and the information he provided that indicate involvement in Hamas.”

The most significant facts of the case are:


Judges revealed that, while World Vision genuinely believes Halabi is innocent, the charity did not have strong enough financial checks and balances in place amid fears such provisions would damage its working relations with other Gaza-based groups;
Halabi was recruited by a Hamas operative in 2004 and initially began as a fighter for the terror group alongside his brother Diya before being assigned the mission of infiltrating World Vision, which operates in 100 countries, and hired him in 2005;
He met with Hamas operatives throughout his employment at World Vision and channeled money and physical materials to the group, which facilitated the maintenance and creation of its vast network of terror tunnels;
Halabi actually visited the terror tunnels at least twice in 2012, using one such occasion to hand over $20,000 to repair a damaged shaft;
The court rejected the defense’s claim that Halabi’s confession — described as “given in various ways” and “detailed, coherent, truthful [and with] many unique details” — was coerced.











						Media Outlets Incredulous at Conviction of Hamas Member Who Confessed to Diverting Charity Funds to Terror Group | Honest Reporting
					

Mohammad al-Halabi, the former head of Gaza operations for Christian aid group World Vision, was recently convicted on a number of charges, including




					honestreporting.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They were born sane, and turned insane by an insane culture ]

The PA also publishes poetry in its official daily. Recently, several poems by a writer named Muhammad Al-Haifawi demonize Jews/Israelis and call to destroy Israel. 

One poem predicts that “a revolution will set out against the lowly and the impure”: 



> “Congratulations, most holy [Jerusalem]…
> *From within you the revolution will set out against the lowly and the impure. *
> Every oppressor will be trampled, regardless of how tyrannically and recklessly he behaves
> Your brave-hearted young people lived and died with heads held high
> *The day of victory is already near,  *
> herald this to everyone.”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 19, 2022]


Another poem referred to Israelis as “you evil ones” and foresees Israel's end:  



> “The day will come – you evil ones –
> When you will leave the land of the rebels
> And you will become dust”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 29, 2022]


A third poem, written after Al-Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh was killed in what the PA has termed a deliberate “assassination,” called to kill Israelis, vowing revenge for her death – “tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye”: 



> “Long live, long live Palestine!
> O army of murderers and Nazis
> We have waved the flag and sworn
> Tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye
> Shireen’s blood will be avenged
> Because blood is a duty that must be paid”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, May 22, 2022]


Palestinian Media Watch has exposed other poems that call for violence against Israel.  Conveying “the words of his honor the President Mahmoud Abbas,” Nablus District Governor Ibrahim Ramadan read a poem in 2020 calling on Palestinians to take up arms and die as Martyrs: 







> *Speaker on stage:* “And now to the words of His Honor the President Mahmoud Abbas, presented by brother Ibrahim Ramadan, District Governor of Nablus.”
> *Nablus District Governor Ibrahim Ramadan: *
> "O Martyr, Allah's mercy upon you.
> If I fell on the land while covered in my wounds
> And my blood flowed from me and my weapon lay by my side
> This is the path of my struggle, therefore my brother, complete my struggle.
> This is what the Martyr tells [us]."
> [Official PA TV, Reporters in the Field, Jan. 6, 2020



(full article online)









						Poem in PA daily to Israelis: “You will become dust” | PMW Analysis
					

Poem in PA daily to Israelis: “You will become dust”




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas has decided to restore ties with Syria, 10 years after its leadership shunned Damascus over opposition to President Bashar al-Assad's crackdown on a revolt against his rule, two sources within the group told Reuters.


One official who asked not to be named said the two sides have held several "high-profile meetings to achieve that goal."

Hamas leaders had publicly endorsed the revolt aimed at overthrowing Assad's dynastic rule, and left their Damascus headquarters. That angered their common ally, Iran.


Hamas's ties with Iran were later restored and officials of the Palestinian Islamist faction praised the Islamic Republic for help with building their Gaza arsenal of long-range rockets, which they used in fighting Israel.

(full article online)









						Hamas to restore Syria ties after 10 years of dispute, sources say
					

The terrorist organization had previously endorsed the revolt to overthrow Assad.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab48 reports:



> The administrative detainee, Khalil Awawda, suspended this morning, Tuesday, his open hunger strike, which lasted for 111 days, in rejection of his arbitrary arrest, after promises and pledges to end his detention, according to the Prisoner Club in a statement.


Awawda's hunger strike has been a _cause célèbre _especially in Islamic Jihad circles, because he has been a known terrorist for a long time.

As with nearly all cases of hunger strikes, the striker declares victory based on some supposed Israeli promises that are not spelled out. The article doesn't say that he will be released now. Typically, the deal from Israel seems to be in the form of promising not to extend the existing administrative detention beyond its initial timeframe. 

The hunger strike has barely been mentioned in Western media. Years ago these strikes garnered some publicity, but without anyone actually dying from these extended "hunger strikes" that involve a bit of cheating, the media lost interest. And without publicity, the propaganda value has been considerably reduced.










						Palestinian terrorists claim victory with another prisoner hunger strike
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Khaled ''_I'm Confused about what Islamic Terrorism is all about''_ Barakat is a bit miffed that Canada has a terror list that includes the PFLP. 

To be so entitled.....











						Canada-Based Senior PFLP Official Khaled Barakat: Canada Must Abolish Its Terrorist List; Armed Struggle, Missiles Are The Only Way To Achieve Palestinian Rights
					

Canada-based senior PFLP official Khaled Barakat, who is also the leader of the Samidoun organization, said in a June 3,...




					www.memri.org
				




Canada-Based Senior PFLP Official Khaled Barakat: Canada Must Abolish Its Terrorist List; Armed Struggle, Missiles Are The Only Way To Achieve Palestinian Rights​


----------



## Hollie

Do it for.... the children.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Remember Nizar Banat? 

He's the critic who publicly called the Palestinian Authority corrupt and organized protests against Mahmoud Abbas.

Last June 24, at 3:30 AM,  he was arrested by PA security services. By 6:30 AM, he was dead.

The PA pretended to be shocked at his death and arrested a bunch of people after the international community expressed displeasure at an obvious assassination. 

And now, according to reports, the supposed murderers will be set free on bail.

Felesteen reports that according to sources, the military court of the PA in Ramallah decided to release on bail 14 defendants in the case of the assassination of Nizar Banat. 

The sources stated that the decision to release the accused was based on the decision of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. 

The defendants are being released on condition that their movement be restricted. And if they happen to disappear towards Jordan, well, these things happen. 

Especially when you work in a government as corrupt as the PA is, under the dictatorship of Mahmoud Abbas.










						Abbas releasing accused killers of Nizar Banat on "bail": report
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

When US President Biden announced that his administration would be renewing its financial assistance to the Palestinian Authority, he probably thought he was promoting peace. Destroying that illusion, a new video released by Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party reiterates that the US-trained and funded PA Security Forces fulfill a double role: Cops by day and terrorists by night. 

In a post on its official Facebook page, Fatah refers to the security force terrorists who were arrested as "heroic prisoners,” and to the security force terrorists who were killed as “Martyrs,” finishing the post with the symbol of a heart.  









> *Posted text:* “Our heroic prisoners and Martyrs 💛”
> Text on screen: *“By day [PA] Security Forces [members], and by night self-sacrificing fighters” *
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, May 25, 2022]


In the video linked to the post, Fatah glorifies 4 members of the PA Security Forces arrested or killed during gun battles with Israeli forces combatting terror. As well as glorifying the arrested and killed terrorists, the video further applauds the fugitive father of terrorist Ra’ad Hazem who murdered 3 in a terror attack in Tel Aviv. The father holds the rank of Colonel in the PA Security Forces.  















In the video, Fatah shows images of the following terrorists, specifically noting the rank - mostly high ranking officers - they hold in the PA Security Forces: 


*“Heroic prisoner Major Muhammad Al-Tubasi” *
Al-Tubasi is suspected of shooting at Israeli soldiers near Jenin on May 13, 2022, in an attack in which Israeli Police officer Noam Raz was murdered. 


*“Heroic Martyr Lieutenant Colonel Daoud Zubeidi” *
Zubeidi, who participated in the same attack and shot at Israeli soldiers in Jenin on May 13, 2022, died of his wounds two days later. 


*“The school of the Security Forces, Colonel Fathi Hazem ‘Abu Ra’ad’” *
Fathi Hazem is the father of terrorist Ra’ad Hazem who murdered 3. 


*“Heroic Martyr Captain Tayseer Ayaseh” *
*“Heroic Martyr First Lieutenant Adham Aliwi” *
Ayaseh and Aliwi, were shot while shooting at Israeli undercover forces on June 21, 2022. 

While the photos of the terrorists are shown on screen the following song is played in the background:

(full article online)









						Cops by day, terrorists by night - the PA Security Forces’ double role | PMW Analysis
					

Cops by day, terrorists by night - the PA Security Forces’ double role




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that swift and decisive responses to islamic terrorist attacks goes a long way toward reducing future attacks. 










						Increased, targeted force mitigated Israel’s last terror wave
					

Israeli forces, again, entered Palestinian towns and villages almost daily to make arrests, leading to a 90% decrease in terrorism.




					www.jns.org
				




An analysis of the Israeli response to the recent wave of indiscriminate Palestinian terrorism demonstrates that targeting the terrorists and their supporters is effective. The IDF and elite undercover security forces launched multiple raids to stop the wave of violence in late March, especially in the Jenin region of northern Samaria, where the perpetrators of three murderous attacks lived.


----------



## Hollie

After the really staggering sums of welfare money thrown by the EU at the Pallys, the EU welfare donors seem less than clear on why the Pallys have managed to do effectively nothing to improve their lives with those boatloads of cash.












						The EU’s Aid Policy Won’t Fix Palestine’s Economy | by Alexandra Gerasimčiková - Project Syndicate
					

Alexandra Gerasimčiková calls for a new European assistance model that better matches realities on the ground.




					www.project-syndicate.org
				




According to a recent EU review of investments in Palestine since 2014, ongoing contributions from “Team Europe” – the EU, its member states, and public development banks, particularly the European Investment Bank and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development – amount to €1.4 billion ($1.5 billion). Three-fifths of that sum was committed in the past two years, with loans accounting for 71% of the total, or €1 billion


----------



## Hollie

Yes. Mysterious. 

Mysterious that an explosion would mysteriously occur with Hamas flunkies playing with explosives in the backyard of their primary Islamic terrorist rival.    












						Mysterious blast leads PA to ‘Hamas bomb plot’ against its HQ
					

P.A. security forces uncovered what they claim was a Hamas bomb lab following a mysterious blast near Ramallah • IDF wraps up series of counter-terror operations in Judea and Samaria.The




					www.clevelandjewishnews.com
				




Palestinian Authority security forces have uncovered what they believe is a Hamas bomb lab in Beitunia, near Ramallah, following a mysterious blast in the town, Israeli media reported on Monday.

After being drawn to the site by the explosion, Palestinian forces found a 17-pound explosive device there, _Channel 12_ reported.

The P.A. has claimed that the lab was part of a plot to attack the _Mukataa_, as the P.A. headquarters in Ramallah is known, as well as the P.A.’s television station and senior PA officials, according to the report.


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian Shiite Mullahs may be stepping up their game and ordering their Hamas minions to wage gee-had against Fatah.

The Sunni Arabs won't take kindly to this and the Egyptians clearly will have a stake in any Iranian designs for expansion into Gaza.... soon to be a postal zip code in Teheran.




			Abbas’s Fatah: Hamas trying to take over West Bank
		


Hamas members planned to seize control of a Palestinian Authority security installation near Ramallah, Palestinian sources said Tuesday.




© (photo credit: REUTERS/IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA)Palestinian Hamas terrorists attend an anti-Israel rally in Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip May 27, 2021

The claim coincided with the 15th anniversary of Hamas’s violent takeover of the Gaza Strip, which resulted in the collapse of the PA and its security forces there.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Shia Iranian Mullahcrats gave their occupying islamic terrorist minions an additional gee-had allowance. 











						Hizbullah TV Aires Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Military Exercise In Gaza Involves Launching Of Mortars, Rockets Into The Mediterranean Sea
					

On June 22, 2022, a video was posted to the website of Al-Manar TV (Hizbullah-Lebanon) of a military drill carried out b...




					www.memri.org
				




Hizbullah TV Aires Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Military Exercise In Gaza Involves Launching Of Mortars, Rockets Into The Mediterranean Sea


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Thursday, Mahmoud Abbas led a meeting of the PLO Executive Committee, for which he has been the chairman since 2004.

Here is what the meeting looked like as they prayed to open the session:





Sixteen older white men, almost all Muslim. 

Hanan Ashrawi, a Christian woman, was a member of this committee but she resigned in 2020 - partially because all the decisions were being made by old men. 

Keep in mind that the Palestinian Authority (or, as they call it, the "State of Palestine") reports to the PLO. This non-elected organization is what really makes the decisions, not the PA. So for example, in 2009 the PLO Executive Committee - headed by Abbas - voted to allow Abbas to remain the president of the PA indefinitely, even in the absence of elections. This power also allowed Abbas to dissolve the High Court and replace it with his own appointees, and to sideline the legislative branch of the government when Hamas won those elections. 

This is dictatorial power, and the Western media just shrugs - or pretends that the PA is a democracy because it sometime stages meaningless elections. 











						The media completely ignores the corruption inherent in the PLO and PA
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

I think we have to be reasonable and understand that billions of dollars in welfare money heaped on the Islamic terrorists gets used up pretty quickly in the environment of greed, theft and corruption.

Gee-had means sacrifices must be made to increase the personal fortunes of the Hamas leadership. 












						The PA’s priorities: Terrorist prisoners rather than cancer patients | PMW Analysis
					

The PA’s priorities: Terrorist prisoners rather than cancer patients




					palwatch.org
				




The PA’s priorities: Terrorist prisoners rather than cancer patients​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 23, 2022
“The great shortage in aid to the Palestinian health sector has led to a severe shortage in medicine, and especially medicine for cancer patients,” PA Minister of Health Mai Al-Kaila stated recently at a meeting with supporters and donors to the Palestinian health sector.

Al-Kaila blamed Israel and international donors for this, stating it is “a result of the financial siege that the occupation is attempting to impose on Palestine and the shortage in international aid.” 
But is that really true? 
- No, it isn’t.
Is there a part of the PA budget that could have been allocated to pay for medicine for cancer patients and other things needed in the PA health sector?
- Yes, there is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I think we have to be reasonable and understand that billions of dollars in welfare money heaped on the Islamic terrorists gets used up pretty quickly in the environment of greed, theft and corruption.
> 
> Gee-had means sacrifices must be made to increase the personal fortunes of the Hamas leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PA’s priorities: Terrorist prisoners rather than cancer patients | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> The PA’s priorities: Terrorist prisoners rather than cancer patients
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PA’s priorities: Terrorist prisoners rather than cancer patients​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 23, 2022
> “The great shortage in aid to the Palestinian health sector has led to a severe shortage in medicine, and especially medicine for cancer patients,” PA Minister of Health Mai Al-Kaila stated recently at a meeting with supporters and donors to the Palestinian health sector.
> 
> Al-Kaila blamed Israel and international donors for this, stating it is “a result of the financial siege that the occupation is attempting to impose on Palestine and the shortage in international aid.”
> But is that really true?
> - No, it isn’t.
> Is there a part of the PA budget that could have been allocated to pay for medicine for cancer patients and other things needed in the PA health sector?
> - Yes, there is.


About1/3 of the PA's budget goes to the security forces that protect Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> About1/3 of the PA's budget goes to the security forces that protect Israel.


I guess the rest goes to payments on Mahmoud's presidential jet.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> About1/3 of the PA's budget goes to the security forces that protect Israel.



Protect Israel from what?


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. UNRWA, the forever Islamic terrorist welfare program has something of a Jew hating issue. 

Maybe if we just gave them more welfare money?













						UN agency teachers urge terrorism and murder of Jews, report claims
					

UN Watch, a Swiss based NGO issued a report, Thursday, that uncovered a shocking picture of how some teachers who work for UNRWA put out explicit and violent messages on social media aimed against Israel and Jews.




					www.foxnews.com
				




JERUSALEM, Israel – A shocking report by a watchdog organization on Thursday revealed that a UN agency tasked with, among other things, educating Palestinian students in places such as Lebanon, the West Bank and Jordan, employs teachers who promote terrorism and the murder of Jews.

UN Watch, a Geneva-based NGO, uncovered in its 49-page report that United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) computer teacher Nihaya Awad, who works in the West Bank*, *supported Hamas rocket attacks on Israeli civilians after last year’s war. The U.S. and the European Union classified Hamas—the Sunni jihadi organization that controls the Gaza Strip—as a terrorist entity


----------



## Hollie

Security has been enhanced for Israel by installing security walls. The Islamic terrorists have a more difficult time committing attacks.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Protect Israel from what?


Protect them from imaginary people who do not exist. Ooooo


----------



## Street Juice

Art__Allm said:


> How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?


There is no one more ignorant or more gullible than a Christian Zionist. Completely bamboozled.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib May Be Under Attack By the Right, But She’s Beloved in Her District
					

In These Times spent a day with Tlaib in Detroit.




					inthesetimes.com
				



Rashida Tlaib May Be Under Attack By the Right, But She’s Beloved in Her District​




Rashida Tlaib reads the book Grace for President to children at a Día de los Niños event at a park in Southwest Detroit while on a district visit April 27.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib May Be Under Attack By the Right, But She’s Beloved in Her District
> 
> 
> In These Times spent a day with Tlaib in Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> inthesetimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib May Be Under Attack By the Right, But She’s Beloved in Her District​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib reads the book Grace for President to children at a Día de los Niños event at a park in Southwest Detroit while on a district visit April 27.


By all 10 people.


----------



## Hollie

Lands occupied by Islamic terrorists tend not to be bastions of human rights. 












						Palestinians: The House Demolitions and Land-Grabs No One Talks About
					

Hamas's ongoing efforts to raze entire villages in the Gaza Strip is seen by many Palestinians as.... part of widespread corruption in Hamas, whose leaders want to seize lands for their personal use.




					www.jewishpress.com
				





Hamas operatives wearing orange vests separating Gaza rioters from the border fence, Saturday, March 30, 2019.

While the international community and media continue to condemn Israel day in and day out about a host of grievances, including the demolition of houses built without proper permits, no one seems to be interested in the ongoing human rights violations against Palestinians by the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Prof.  Loubna Qutami : Growing up Palestinian and Challenging Zionism in America​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

There's an important point made in the linked article, often overlooked, that drives so much of the absurdity surrounding the phony UN Hunan Rights Council.

''_This reality reflects simple political realities. The UN includes nearly 60 Muslim states but only one Jewish state.''_










						The UN vs. Israel, yet again
					

This year, the United States rejoined the United Nations Human Rights Council. It did so to try to advance fundamental values, strengthen multilateralism and address political corruption. But Exhibit A of this corruption is the UN’s unparalleled misuse as a propaganda tool against Israel.




					www.nydailynews.com
				




This year, the United States rejoined the United Nations Human Rights Council. It did so to try to advance fundamental values, strengthen multilateralism and address political corruption. But Exhibit A of this corruption is the UN’s unparalleled misuse as a propaganda tool against Israel.

This reality reflects simple political realities. The UN includes nearly 60 Muslim states but only one Jewish state.

Arabs enjoy greater civil liberty in Israel than they do in Arab countries. And far more Muslims have been killed in Muslim-majority countries over the past decade than in some 75 years of conflict involving Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists and their apologists can make all the justifications they want for gee-had attacks but those attacks only promote retaliation and dead Islamic terrorists. 






			https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/un-official-again-justifies-palestinian-terrorism-against-israel/
		


This is the second time that Francesca Albanese, the Palestinians’ lead advocate for human rights at the United Nations, has rationalized attacks against Israelis.






According to a UN official tasked with conflict resolution, it is perfectly natural for Palestinian groups to spend all their money on weapons and engage in endless violence against Israel.

(JNS) The new UN Special Rapporteur on Palestinian issues has justified violence against Israelis for the second time in her short stint.


----------



## Hollie

Hardly a 'lost childhood.'

He's been groomed since childhood to be a sacrificial minion.


----------



## Hollie

Islamism. Building sociopaths since 610 CE.












						“The more despicable a thing is, it is an invention of the Jewish mind”  | PMW Analysis
					

“The more despicable a thing is, it is an invention of the Jewish mind”




					palwatch.org
				




“The more despicable a thing is, it is an invention of the Jewish mind”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 27, 2022



“The more despicable a thing is, it is an invention of the Jewish mind.”

Whereas this sounds like
Nazi Germany hate-speech from the 1930s or 1940s, this antisemitic statement was made in 2022 just a few weeks ago by official PA TV’s “Israeli affairs expert,” Fayez Abbas:


----------



## Hollie

It's what they do.


----------



## Hollie

The Iranian mullahcrats apparently wrote a check to pay for another silly fashion show. Islamic terrorist knuckleheads prancing around in military style uniform. 











						The military-terrorist wing of Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) held military exercise in the Gaza Strip to convey threats to Israel. - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
					

On June 20, 2022, the Jerusalem Brigades, the military-terrorist wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) held a large exercise  in the Gaza Strip.  According to PIJ sources, the exercise mainly focused on firing rockets and artillery at targets at sea.  Apparently the military-terrorist...




					www.terrorism-info.org.il
				




On June 20, 2022, the Jerusalem Brigades, the military-terrorist wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) held a large exercise called “The determination of the truth tellers” in the Gaza Strip. Originally it was planned to last several days, but it actually began in the morning and ended in the evening of the same day. Jerusalem Brigades spokesman Abu Hamza reported that all the objectives of the exercise has been achieved and the results were good.


----------



## Hollie

Gee, whiz. It seems it's always the same groups and individuals being a part of the sleaze surrounding Islamic terrorism. 











						Facebook's 'trusted partner' is linked to terror groups
					

Meta, Facebook's parent company, provides funding and works closely with pro-Palestine charity 7amleh.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




EXCLUSIVE: Facebook is funding and working closely with pro-Palestine charity that is linked to alleged terror groups that revere convicted killers and had a 'Holocaust denier' as a guest speaker – along with Rep Rashida Tlaib​


----------



## Hollie

Just a gentle reminder for the Islamic terrorists that behavior modification comes in many forms.


----------



## Hollie

Decades of throwing welfare dollars at sociopaths / the religiously insane as rewards for their behavior has created a monster. 











						Terror loving PA/Fatah use all means of communication to promote terror and end of Israel | PMW Analysis
					

Terror loving PA/Fatah use all means of communication to promote terror and end of Israe




					palwatch.org
				




Terror loving PA/Fatah use all means of communication to promote terror and end of Israel​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jun 28, 2022

*On social media: Fatah threatens more murderous terror  *
*In public speeches: Terror is promoted and terrorist murderers are glorified *
*In interviews: Officials endorse terror attacks  *
*In poems: Terrorists and murder are glorified *
*On TV: Israel's right to exist is denied - All of Israel is “Palestine”  *
*In songs: Violence is promoted *


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 
latest Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research poll shows that in the aftermath of a new terror wave, more Palestinians support killing Jews.

The poll, taken last week, finds:

When asked about support for specific policy choices to break the current deadlock, *55% support a return to armed confrontations and intifada.*

A majority of *59% say that the armed attack inside Israel* carried out by Palestinians unaffiliated with known armed groups *contributes to the national interest* of ending the occupation.

A majority of *56%  support murderous attacks *similar to those carried out in April and May inside Israel.

When asked about the most effective means of ending the  occupation and building an independent state, *50% chose "armed struggle,"* 22% negotiations, and 21% popular resistance. 

Other interesting findings:

The vast majority (78%) *believe the Qur'an contains a prophecy on the demise of the State of Israel.*

The largest percentage (33%) says Hamas is most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people while 23% think Fatah under president Abbas is.

In an election for president today between Abbas and Hamas leader Haniyeh, Haniyeh would win handily, 55% to 33%.

Only 28% support a two state solution, 69% oppose. But based on this video done recently, the 69% do not want a binational state with equal rights for all: virtually all want a single Arab state.

(vide video online)









						New poll shows that Palestinians love people who kill Jews - and prefer Hamas to lead them
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Because it's what islamic terrorists do. 





			https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/palestinian-terrorists-wound-three-israelis-at-josephs-tomb/
		


The hundreds of civilians at the site were evacuated by Israeli forces • Samaria Regional Council head praises IDF officer’s bravery under fire, denounces “barbaric PA terrorism.”


----------



## Hollie

So, yeah. The islamic terrorist Pallys see it as a victory that the EU has acknowledged that paying islamic terrorists is part of what defines being an Arab Pally.














						PA celebrates “political victory” over EU | PMW Analysis
					

PA celebrates perceived EU acceptance of the PA’s terror reward payments and antisemitic hate curriculum




					palwatch.org
				




Palestinian Media Watch

PA celebrates “political victory” over EU
Itamar Marcus  | Jun 29, 2022
PA claims it forced EU to accept the PA’s terror reward payments and hate curriculum 

The European Union’s recent announcement that it will be renewing its aid to the PA means that the EU is accepting that the PA continues to reward terror and continues its antisemitic, hate-filled school curriculum, according to the Palestinian Authority Minister of Public Works and Building Muhammad Ziyara. According to the PA, this “political victory” over the EU is more important that the financial aid:


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Hebron yesterday, three people were executed while driving in a car - by other Palestinians.





Fighting broke out in Yatta as the news spread.

This happens often. Sometimes the murders are from family feuds, sometimes from honor killings. 

The Palestinian Independent Center for Human Rights finds a correlation between Palestinians attacking Jews and Palestinians attacking Palestinians. 

The same report notes that the Palestinian Authority is not keen on prosecuting those who misuse weapons - because a lot of them are members of Fatah.





But it happens in Gaza, too. And in the Palestinian camps in Syria and Lebanon. When you have a society where the most admired people are terrorists, and where guns are easily available, where honor is the motivating factor in nearly every decision -  this is what is going to happen.

Not that there are any academic papers on the phenomenon. I couldn't find any from the past 20 years that mentioned "security chaos" or "clan clashes" or "family feuds" in Palestinian territories. There are plenty of articles in Arabic about the phenomenon, but in the overwhelmingly liberal halls of academia, this is not a topic for analysis. Palestinians are killed by Jews, not by other Palestinians.

And among the "progressive" crowd, one never hears calls for effective gun control in the Palestinian territories. But in that case, the reason is because they support Palestinians attacking Jews, and they need weapons to do that. A little collateral damage of scores of Palestinians killed as a result?  To these faux liberals, it is a small price to pay.











						In a Palestinian society where guns are cheap and violence is admired, people murder each other
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

> *Posted text:* “On the anniversary of the death as a Martyr of national fighter and exceptional self-sacrificing fighter Atef Bseiso (i.e., terrorist, involved in Munich Olympics massacre in which 11 were murdered), *we will raise the memory of the revolution in our memories. Before us stand Martyr leaders Abu Ali Iyad *(i.e., Fatah terror leader), *Salah Khalaf ‘Abu Iyad’* (i.e., head of Black September terror organization), *and the heroes of the Munich operation* (i.e., Munich Olympics massacre). *The land will take back its glory through its righteous sons who create the glory of the revolution. *[May there be] great peace and mercy on your soul.”
> [Facebook page of Fatah Central Committee member Tawfiq Tirawi,
> June 8, 2022]


Fatah’s praise of past terrorists is not due to a lack of current “heroes.” Palestinian Media Watch exposed that another Fatah official supports “the pure and heroic” terrorists who recently murdered 8 in Tel Aviv and Bnei Brak: 

















> *Fatah Secretary in Jenin Ata Abu Rmeileh: *“The Jenin district is triumphing, triumphing over the occupation...  As a sign of support for the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and the pure Martyrs and heroic Martyrs Ra’ad [Hazem], Diya [Hamarsheh] (i.e., terrorists who murdered 8), and all the Martyrs, today we light the torch of freedom and the torch of the prisoners to emphasize that we adhere to the covenant and the oath to these Martyrs and to the Martyr leader, the First Stone and the First Bullet, Khalil Al-Wazir ‘Abu Jihad’ (i.e., terrorist, responsible for murder of 125).”
> [Official PA TV,  _Giants of Endurance_, April 19, 2022]


_Tawfiq Tirawi also serves as Fatah Commissioner of Popular Organizations. 

*Atef Bseiso* was a senior PLO official and was involved in the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre, in which 11 Israeli athletes were murdered. He was assassinated in Paris in 1992 by the Israeli Mossad.

*Abu Ali Iyad* was appointed head of Fatah military operations in 1966 and was responsible for several terror attacks. The attacks included a bombing in the town of Beit Yosef in northern Israel on April 25, 1966 (injuring 3 people), and placing bombs in the town of Margaliot in northern Israel on July 19, 1966. He was killed in 1971 in Jordan by the Jordanian army when it forced Fatah members out of the country.

*Abu Iyad (Salah Khalaf)* - PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat's deputy, one of the founders of Fatah, and head of the terror organization Black September, a secret branch of Fatah. Attacks he planned include the murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics (Sept. 5, 1972) and the murder of two American diplomats in Sudan (March 1, 1973). It is commonly assumed that his assassin, a former Fatah bodyguard, was sent by the Abu Nidal Organization, a rival Palestinian faction.

The *Munich Olympics massacre* - terrorist attack perpetrated by the Palestinian terror organization Black September, a secret branch of Fatah, during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, in which they murdered 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team.

*Diya Ahmed Hassan Hamarsheh* - Palestinian terrorist and Fatah member who shot and murdered 5 people - Israeli civilians Rabbi Avishai Yehezkel and Ya'akov Yisrael Shalom, Israeli police officer Amir Khoury, and 2 foreign workers from Ukraine identified as Alexander and Dmitry - in Bnei Brak near Tel Aviv on March 29, 2022. An Israeli police officer shot and killed Hamarsheh, ending the attack. Hamarsheh, from Ya'abad near Jenin, had been working in Israel illegally. He was imprisoned for 6 months in 2015 for dealing in illegal weapons and membership in a terror organization.


(full article online)








						Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
					

Hardly a 'lost childhood.'  He's been groomed since childhood to be a sacrificial minion.



					www.usmessageboard.com
				



_


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip systematically torture critics in detention, a practice that could amount to crimes against humanity, an international rights group said Friday.

In its report, Human Rights Watch (HRW) called for donor countries to cut off funding to Palestinian security forces that commit such crimes and urged the International Criminal Court to investigate.

The report alleged that Palestinian security forces “use solitary confinement and beatings, including whipping feet and forcing detainees into painful stress positions for prolonged periods, hoisting their arms behind their backs with cables or rope, to punish and intimidate critics and opponents, and elicit confessions.”

(full article online)









						Rights group: Palestinian Authority and Hamas systematically torture critics in jail
					

Human Rights Watch says abuse of detainees by Abbas's PA and Gaza's rulers could amount to crimes against humanity; also notes alleged torture of Palestinians by Israel




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip systematically torture critics in detention, a practice that could amount to crimes against humanity, an international rights group said Friday.
> 
> In its report, Human Rights Watch (HRW) called for donor countries to cut off funding to Palestinian security forces that commit such crimes and urged the International Criminal Court to investigate.
> 
> The report alleged that Palestinian security forces “use solitary confinement and beatings, including whipping feet and forcing detainees into painful stress positions for prolonged periods, hoisting their arms behind their backs with cables or rope, to punish and intimidate critics and opponents, and elicit confessions.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rights group: Palestinian Authority and Hamas systematically torture critics in jail
> 
> 
> Human Rights Watch says abuse of detainees by Abbas's PA and Gaza's rulers could amount to crimes against humanity; also notes alleged torture of Palestinians by Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com





Sixties Fan said:


> The report alleged that Palestinian security forces“use solitary confinement and beatings, including whipping feet and forcing detainees into painful stress positions for prolonged periods, hoisting their arms behind their backs with cables or rope, to punish and intimidate critics and opponents, and elicit confessions.”


Hmm, just like Israel. The PA security are trained by the US and paid by western countries. They protect Israel as part of the Oslo accords. They are not allowed to defend the Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hmm, just like Israel. The PA security are trained by the US and paid by western countries. They protect Israel as part of the Oslo accords. They are not allowed to defend the Palestinians.


Total BS.
Both PA and Hamas want to continue to be in power to enjoy all the wealth they have stolen and so enjoy living in.

Power is hypnotic.
Being poor is the last thing they want to happen to them, and being indicted for all the torture and murder they have committed, not even counting endless incitement to kill Jews.


When are Gaza and PA leaders going to follow in Saudi Arabia's footsteps?
Never?
To the endless loss to all the poor Arabs and others who ended up stuck in Gaza, Areas A and B.


Somebody save those people from these greedy leaders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Total BS.
> Both PA and Hamas want to continue to be in power to enjoy all the wealth they have stolen and so enjoy living in.
> 
> Power is hypnotic.
> Being poor is the last thing they want to happen to them, and being indicted for all the torture and murder they have committed, not even counting endless incitement to kill Jews.
> 
> 
> When are Gaza and PA leaders going to follow in Saudi Arabia's footsteps?
> Never?
> To the endless loss to all the poor Arabs and others who ended up stuck in Gaza, Areas A and B.
> 
> 
> Somebody save those people from these greedy leaders.


The PA is a foreign imposed dictatorship that was created by Oslo.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> The PA is a foreign imposed dictatorship that was created by Oslo.


Then it is time for the PA to go and allow the people in those areas to find the peace with Israel so many of them want.

The PA is a dictatorship because Abbas, and many like him are corrupt people.  Without any help from any foreign country.  All they want is to send people to kill Jews, while they and their friends make money out of foreign fools who keep sending them money for the country they have no intention of building, ever.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An Interview with Manal Tamimi of Nabi Saleh​


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Is she an actress, just like the rest of the family? ]

[ Palestinians??  From "Ancient Palestine???"  Apparently not.  They are welcome to live in Israel in peace, not the war they have become so good at against Israel.
Learn the truth, Tamimi.  Tell the truth.  Be proud of being Arabs from Arabia.  You have a long history there.  But do not want to return there.  Why?  No need.  So, live in peace with the Jews on their ancient homeland ]
---------------
Whats the biggest Arab tribe?

*Tamim* is one of the largest Arab tribes. The tribe occupied in the 6th century the eastern part of the Arabian peninsula before playing an important role with the revelation of Islam. They came into contact with Muhammad in the 8th year of Hijrah, but they did not immediately convert to Islam.

------------





						Tamimi (surname) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




*Banū Tamīm* (Arabic: بَنُو تَمِيم) or Banī Tamīm is one of the tribes of Arabia, mainly present in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan, Iraq and also a strong presence in Algeria[2][3]and many other parts of the Arab world. The word _Tamim_ in Arabic means strong and solid.[4][5] It can also mean perfect.

--------------


			https://forebears.io/surnames/al-tamimi
		

----------------------------


----------



## Sixties Fan

Manal Tamimi is a member of the infamous Tamimi clan, of which “Shirley Temper” is part. She has been lauded as a “human rights defender” and an “iconic activist” by extreme leftists and Israel haters, who engages in “non-violent popular resistance.”

She is also very much a part of Tamimi Press, the propaganda outlet run by “Shirley’s” father Bassem Tamimi, and as such, the disinformation campaign against Israel (aided and abetted by some in the mainstream media and smaller outfits like AMZ Productions of Oregon).

Much has already been written about her support for terror against Israelis. But what is perhaps less known is that she is an out-and-out Jew hater.

Her tweets include antisemitic memes to which we are already accustomed – genocidal wishes, denial of Jewish history and identity, Nazi-era imagery, mocking of Jews, co-opting the Holocaust, and outright libels demonizing the Jewish people.

Here’s a sample.

(full article online)










						The Vile Antisemitism Of Manal Tamimi
					

Much has already been written about her support for terror. Perhaps less known is that she is a vile Jew hater.




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The PA is a foreign imposed dictatorship that was created by Oslo.


Another of your nonsensical conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Another example of the disease consuming the retrograde Islamist. Swaths of the Arab Moslem world are learning to temper the religious / ideological hatreds they hold for Jews and Christians. 

Pallys, however. Born to lose. 










						Hamas TV Commentator Jamil Ziyada: We Cannot Coexist With The Jews; Life Is All About Fighting, Not Negotiations
					

Jamil Ziyada, a commentator on Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas-Gaza), said in a June 23, 2022 show that the Palestinians cannot coexis...




					www.memri.org
				




Hamas TV Commentator Jamil Ziyada: We Cannot Coexist With The Jews; Life Is All About Fighting, Not Negotiations​#9662 | 01:30


----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud “_Dictator for Life” _Abbas is not opposed to acts of Islamic terrorism. 

Shocking, that. The constant urging by the Fatah franchise of _Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc., _makes that clear everyday. 












						Fact Check, Associated Press: Palestinian Authority Chief Mahmoud Abbas Isn't 'Opposed to Armed Struggle' | Honest Reporting
					

In the accompanying text under a photo slideshow, the wire service made the bizarre claim that Abbas is "opposed to armed struggle."




					honestreporting.com
				




Mahmoud Abbas, who heads the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority (PA) and its ruling Fatah party, has frequently been described as “two-faced” (see, for example, here, here and here). In 2014, amid a terror wave that had already claimed the lives of many Israelis, then-strategic affairs minister Yuval Steinitz referred to the Western-backed Palestinian leader as “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde,” likening him to Yasser Arafat.

Indeed, while Abbas has condemned terrorism in English, he constantly encourages “martyrdom” in his messaging to the Palestinian public.


----------



## Hollie

After admonishing the “we” who aren’t fighting the abomination of homosexuality, I would have expected the good Sheikh Abu to take the lead and drag some homos to rooftops and throw them over. 












						Palestinian Islamic Scholar Sheikh Yousef Abu Islam: Homosexuals Should Be Thrown Off Rooftops, Stoned To Death; Allah Will Punish Us Like Sodom If We Don't Fight This Abomination
					

In a Friday sermon that was posted to the Al-Aqsa Call YouTube channel on June 26, 2022, Palestinian Islamic scholar She...




					www.memri.org
				




Palestinian Islamic Scholar Sheikh Yousef Abu Islam: Homosexuals Should Be Thrown Off Rooftops, Stoned To Death; Allah Will Punish Us Like Sodom If We Don't Fight This Abomination​


----------



## Hollie

They're so cute when when they do these gee-had photo ops. 












						At Fatah Rally In Jenin, Young Men And Children Brandishing Rifles Pledge: Jihad Is Our Path!
					

On June 24, 2022, Awda TV (Palestinian Authority) broadcasted a Fatah rally held in Jenin in honor of terrorists killed ...




					www.memri.org
				




At Fatah Rally In Jenin, Young Men And Children Brandishing Rifles Pledge: Jihad Is Our Path!​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nicaragua recently expelled Palestinian ambassador Muhammad Amro, who returned to Ramallah after being deported, reported PanaTimes, a South American news site.

Nicaragua declared Amro persona non grata after the the Palestinian Authority refused to take any action in response to his assault on a female employee inside the embassy in April.

Amro “chased her and forcibly dragged her outside the embassy,” reported PanaTimes.

The police guard patrolling the embassy’s exterior witnessed the abuse and filed a complaint with the local authorities.

She reported seeing the worker being dragged by Amro. The victim cried and screamed, according to the policewoman’s statement.

Meanwhile, the pan-Arab London-based media outlet Al-Araby Al-Jadeed reported, “[T]he ambassador entered into a heated discussion with the employee and pushed and beat her, and when she ran away to her office room and closed it, he … opened the door forcefully, beating her and dragging her towards the embassy door to the street and ordered her not to come again to the embassy.”

Nicaragua’s Foreign Ministry contacted the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian’s Foreign Ministry multiple times after the attack, but received no response. The ministry responded by declaring the ambassador persona non grata, explained the PanaTimes coverage.

That report added that the Palestinian Authority is trying to “to whitewash the incident” and is attempting “to bring the violent ambassador back to Nicaragua without damaging relations between the Palestinian Authority and Nicaragua which is considered a friend of the Palestinians.”

(full article online )









						Get Out! Palestinian Ambassador Expelled for Viciously Beating Female Worker in Nicaragua | United with Israel
					

A top Palestinian diplomat was expelled from Nicaragua for violently beating a worker at the embassy, according to South American news outlets.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib Faces Coordinated Attack From Corrupt Democrats & Republicans​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib Faces Coordinated Attack From Corrupt Democrats & Republicans​


TYT

Not the kind of place where one can actually get reliable news









						What is the general opinion of The Young Turks (TYT) news commentary?
					

Answer (1 of 37): I'm not an American, but I do watch TYT regularly as part of my YouTube feed that I watch like my life depended on it.  I probably subscribe to opinions that wouldn't conform to most of what TYT stands for, barring views on some social aspects. They aren't any different from wha...




					www.quora.com
				




What is the general opinion of The Young Turks (TYT) news ...​https://www.quora.com › What-is-the-general-opinion-...



TYT is a far-left echo chamber, a severely biased opinion commentary masquerading as a news program. It has none of the neutrality and objectivity required of a ...


-------
My god this show is terrible. It represents the pinnacle of everything that has gone wrong with the so called progressive left. To begin with, it is completely biased to the left, expect feminism, marxim, social justice with large helpings of intolerance, righteousness and hate.

They never have any guests on with opposing views which only encourages the host "cenk" to go off on his tirades in which everyone who does not agree with him is a racists white supremacist.

The co-host, Ana Kasparian, is arguably worse, proclaiming herself to be better than everyone else, declaring those who voted for the republicans in the last election as garbage.

It is mainstream media masquerading as social media, they are funded by Democratic Party kingmaker Jeffrey Katzenberg to the sum of 20 million USD in 2017.

They took the name ""Young Turks"" from a particularly nasty political movement from the early 20th century.

The Armenian Genocide was the Young Turk government's systematic extermination of its Armenian subjects. An estimated 1.5 million people were killed.

Bit of an odd name to call yourselves unless you are trying to make a statement. Incidentally, Ana Kasparian is the daughter of Armenian parents. I find this to be a very disturbing aspect of this utterly hopeless "news organisation"











						The Young Turks (TV Series 2005– ) - IMDb
					

The Young Turks (TV Series 2005– ) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more...




					www.imdb.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> TYT
> 
> Not the kind of place where one can actually get reliable news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the general opinion of The Young Turks (TYT) news commentary?
> 
> 
> Answer (1 of 37): I'm not an American, but I do watch TYT regularly as part of my YouTube feed that I watch like my life depended on it.  I probably subscribe to opinions that wouldn't conform to most of what TYT stands for, barring views on some social aspects. They aren't any different from wha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the general opinion of The Young Turks (TYT) news ...​https://www.quora.com › What-is-the-general-opinion-...
> 
> 
> 
> TYT is a far-left echo chamber, a severely biased opinion commentary masquerading as a news program. It has none of the neutrality and objectivity required of a ...
> 
> 
> -------
> My god this show is terrible. It represents the pinnacle of everything that has gone wrong with the so called progressive left. To begin with, it is completely biased to the left, expect feminism, marxim, social justice with large helpings of intolerance, righteousness and hate.
> 
> They never have any guests on with opposing views which only encourages the host "cenk" to go off on his tirades in which everyone who does not agree with him is a racists white supremacist.
> 
> The co-host, Ana Kasparian, is arguably worse, proclaiming herself to be better than everyone else, declaring those who voted for the republicans in the last election as garbage.
> 
> It is mainstream media masquerading as social media, they are funded by Democratic Party kingmaker Jeffrey Katzenberg to the sum of 20 million USD in 2017.
> 
> They took the name ""Young Turks"" from a particularly nasty political movement from the early 20th century.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide was the Young Turk government's systematic extermination of its Armenian subjects. An estimated 1.5 million people were killed.
> 
> Bit of an odd name to call yourselves unless you are trying to make a statement. Incidentally, Ana Kasparian is the daughter of Armenian parents. I find this to be a very disturbing aspect of this utterly hopeless "news organisation"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Young Turks (TV Series 2005– ) - IMDb
> 
> 
> The Young Turks (TV Series 2005– ) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.imdb.com


OK, but what did they say that was incorrect?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but what did they say that was incorrect?


They cry crocodile tears because most Democrats do not like her ideas against Israel which would harm the US.

What was it that they said which was correct?

Only those who are totally against Israel, like yourself, would believe one word they say.

" it is completely biased to the left, expect feminism, marxim, social justice with large helpings of intolerance, righteousness and hate."

Is the above paragraph the person you also are, Tinmore?  Is that why you want to believe what they say?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> They cry crocodile tears because most Democrats do not like her ideas against Israel which would harm the US.
> 
> What was it that they said which was correct?
> 
> Only those who are totally against Israel, like yourself, would believe one word they say.
> 
> " it is completely biased to the left, expect feminism, marxim, social justice with large helpings of intolerance, righteousness and hate."
> 
> Is the above paragraph the person you also are, Tinmore?  Is that why you want to believe what they say?


Do you mean that there is *not* a lot of big money against Tlaib?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean that there is *not* a lot of big money against Tlaib?


You care about the money against her, or anyone else who hates Israel, and not about he issues she is about.

She is against the US.

That is enough reason to vote against her.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You care about the money against her, or anyone else who hates Israel, and not about he issues she is about.
> 
> She is against the US.
> 
> That is enough reason to vote against her.





Sixties Fan said:


> She is against the US.


What makes you say that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> What makes you say that?


She is against the US giving support to Israel, which goes against American interests.

She thinks that if Israel is not given that support , that Hamas and the PA will have a better chance of defeating Israel.

She is wrong.  With or without American support Israel will continue to defeat the terrorists who are killing their own civilians, sending them to die for Allah, and a piece of land which is not their.

The whole world belongs to Islam.

That is their thinking and their problem.  And even the Arab countries are tired of their lies and intention of destroying Israel instead of creating a better life for their populations in Gaza and the PA.

The wealthy ones have a good life in Gaza and the PA, everyone else has to suffer and pay the price for Israel's continuous existence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hanan Ashrawi tweeted:





Was Kamel an innocent bystander?

Of course not. He was a terrorist. He was throwing firebombs towards the IDF. 

Hamas called him their "son" and created a martyr poster.






At his funeral his body was wrapped up in the flag of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.




It was carried by scores of gun-toting terrorists.





Hia brother whom he was named after was also a Hamas terrorist. He was killed while en route to a terror attack. 

Hia father was also in Israeli prisons for terrorism.

So Kamel was a terrorist, from a terrorist family, killed while attacking Jews, and named after a brother who was also a terrorist killed while attacking Jews. 

This is who Hanan Ashrawi mourns.












						"Moderate" Hanan Ashrawi mourns a terrorist
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

She is fortunately past her breeding years but these pally sociopaths can still inflict the damage of their disease on others. 












						Head Of PIJ's Women's Framework Esmahan Abd Al-Aal Praises Female Terrorists, Mothers Of "Martyrs": They Are Role Models, Icons Of Struggle and Resistance
					

Esmahan Abd Al-Aal, the head of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad's Women's Framework, said in a June 6, 2022 show on Palest...




					www.memri.org
				




Head Of PIJ's Women's Framework Esmahan Abd Al-Aal Praises Female Terrorists, Mothers Of "Martyrs": They Are Role Models, Icons Of Struggle and Resistance​


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Nothing new ]


Hamas rules the Palestinian street, despite costly Western efforts to bolster Fatah  
One of the backbones of Israeli, American and European policy vis-à-vis the Palestinian Authority over years has been to attempt to encourage Palestinian popular support for Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah party, and reduce Palestinian support for Hamas, an internationally designated terror organization.  

However, the results of Palestinian public opinion surveys over the last four years, show the steady growth in popularity of Hamas, and its leaders, at the expense of Fatah and its leaders.  

Every quarter, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR) releases a poll, inter alia, looking at the relative popularity of Fatah and Hamas. Comparing the results of the June polls for the last 4 years shows the steady and consistent growth of Palestinian support for the Hamas terror organization: 


In the June 2022 poll, if elections for the position of PA chairman were held the result would be a major win for Hamas with Ismail Haniyeh receiving 55% and Mahmoud Abbas only 33%. This result represents a major reversal and substantial rise in the popularity for Hamas. In 2019, Abbas would have defeated Haniyeh 48% – 42%. 


Another indicator of Palestinian support for terror, is that the only way a Fatah candidate could defeat the Hamas candidate would be if Fatah were to run a convicted terrorist prisoner, Marwan Barghouti, who is currently serving five life sentences for his part in the murder of four Israelis and a Greek Orthodox priest.  


In polls comparing preferences for the Palestinian parliament (PLC) in 2019, Fatah was more popular by 9% than Hamas (39%-30%) but in 2022 Hamas now wins by 1% (36%-35%). However, as Palestinian Media Watch has already shown, prior to the PLC elections that were scheduled for May 2021, Fatah fell apart dividing into three  parties, each claiming to represent the “real Fatah.” Accordingly, the 35% support for “Fatah” in the recent poll, is actuality far greater than the true support for any single Fatah party.      
The following chart presents the results of the polls over time:


(full article online)









						Hamas is more popular than Fatah and its popularity keeps growing | PMW Analysis
					

Hamas is more popular than Fatah and its popularity keeps growing




					palwatch.org


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

July 4 is the anniversary of the death of the notorious Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Muhammad Amin Al-Husseini, who died in Beirut in 1974.

News site Safa commemorates his life with this poster, calling him "the icon of the Palestinian struggle."





Husseini wasn't even initially a Palestinian nationalist. up until 1921, he strongly supported a Greater Syria, not an independent Palestine. 

Husseini was behind numerous terror attacks. He constantly incited against Jews. He was the creator of the "Al Aqsa is in danger" lie. He was involved in the murderous attacks on Jews in 1920, 1921, 1929 and 1936. But that wasn't enough - he collaborated with the Nazis to block Jewish emigration from Europe. He personally toured at least one concentration camp. By any measure, he was an enthusiastic supporter of genocide against Jews.

And he is a Palestinian hero.

You will not find Palestinian articles asking to reconsider whether he is someone who should be lionized. He is simply an "icon" and whatever he did is therefore praiseworthy. 










						Palestinians still praising their Nazi collaborating leader Hajj Amin Husseini
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

Every day of the week is a new 'financial crisis' for the useless, Islamic terrorist hugging entity that has long ago become nothing more than a stain on the reputation of western nations.










						Fearing a collapse: Palestinian refugees and UNRWA’s worsening financial crisis
					

In early June 2022, the Advisory Commission of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East met in Beirut. Facing a $100 million budget deficit and the indifference of donor countries, UNRWA’s future is uncertain.




					mei.edu
				




In early June 2022, the Advisory Commission of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) met in Beirut. Facing a $100 million budget deficit and the indifference of donor countries,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: What would you do if you were Israel with Gaza rockets?​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians: What would you do if you were Israel with Gaza rockets?​


Palestinians pre Mandate did not fight, ask for help or anything to get rid of the Ottoman occupation.  But they never deal with that.

Palestinians, post 1948, were very patient and did not fight or build rockets to free themselves from Egypt in Gaza, or the Jordanians in Judea and Samaria. But they never deal with that.

Palestinians defile the Temple Mount on a daily basis.

Most of today's Palestinians came into Palestine from the 1890s on from other countries.

Palestinians saw only themselves as Arabs, and Bedouins before the Mandate for Palestine

Palestine was never a country, it was never the Arab's "country".  It was an Islamic conquest.

Hamas is destroying homes of people in Gaza to take the land for themselves.  Where is the Palestinian protest?

There is no money for bomb shelters in Gaza?  Hamas does not want to build them, so that Israeli rockets will kill more people.  Nice Hamas.

Some of these Palestinians cannot even deal with Hamas and others firing rockets just to kill people in Israel, which has happened many times.

These Palestinians have no idea of the resources in Gaza, or that Egypt also keeps the ones in Gaza oppressed.

Worst of all.  Most of these Palestinians do not know Jewish History and do not know that the Jews and Israelis are the Indigenous people of that land, and not the Arabs, aka Palestinians.

When people are duped into believing that something is theirs, and only theirs, and that the Jews, especially the Jews, are coming to kill you and take your property,  it creates the conflict that we continue to see since 1920.

And it is mostly Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their homes and lost their lives from 1920 to 1948 due to Al Husseini's incitement against the Jews.  But they do not know the history,  nor do they care to learn.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite the PA's official disapproval of Arabs working in Judea and Samaria, historically they have had to admit that they cannot offer an alternative to employment in the settlements. Already in 2011, Shahar Saad, Secretary-General of the Palestinian Workers' Union

For Israel, creating jobs and providing employment for Palestinian Arabs makes sense, though the motivation differs between creating jobs for West Bank Arabs and Arabs from Gaza.

Last year, The Times of Israel reported that Israel was distributing 16,000 new work permits, in an effort to support the Palestinian economy which faced reduced international aid and a difficult year due to the pandemic. But more than shoring up Abbas,

--------

This would explain Sinwar's change in tactics, from inciting _Gazans_ against Israel to inciting _Arabs in Israel_, claiming that Hamas is the defender of Al Aqsa and calling on them to attack Jews in order to defend it.

But Gazan employment in Israel is apparently not the only source of pressure on Sinwar.

Last week, Hamas announced that the health of one of the 2 Israeli hostages it holds is in danger. The terrorist group is trying to use them as bargaining chips to gain the release of terrorists and the periodic updates about their health is psychological manipulation towards that end. However, both of them suffer from mental illness, and because of the sympathy that creates, the Hamas exploitation of the hostages is not getting the leaders the response they expected.

And that is another problem for Sinwar:
-------

When it was first suggested that Hamas should be included in the 2007 elections in Gaza, it was suggested that having the responsibilities of government would have "a moderating influence" on the terrorist group. The current situation is _not_ a confirmation of that suggestion. The issue of Gazans working in Israel is not a moderating _influence_ -- it is _pressure_ applied by Israel on Sinwar to maintain calm in order to protect his position and stay in power, even as he tries to take credit for this boost to the economy. His "campaign promise" to his fellow terrorists, on the other hand, applies pressure on Sinwar to foment violence.

Al-Monitor claims that Israel is in fact taking a degree of risk every time it takes steps to either create new jobs for Palestinian Arabs or distributes additional work permits. According to this view, these workers could potentially be recruited to carry out attacks inside Israel. Such concerns are all the more credible in light of the violence we have seen Hamas instigate.

For years, Hamas terrorist leaders have been exploiting Gazans as human shields for protection in order to evade the consequences of their actions. Yet, regardless of how they feel about Israel, Gazans are practical enough to work there in order to make a living -- and they expect Sinwar and the other Hamas leaders not to mess up their opportunity to support their families, something that Hamas on its own is consistently failing to do.

(full article online)









						Hamas Understands Israel Has A Means Of Deterrence That May Be Even Stronger Than Iron Dome (Daled Amos)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Despite the PA's official disapproval of Arabs working in Judea and Samaria, historically they have had to admit that they cannot offer an alternative to employment in the settlements. Already in 2011, Shahar Saad, Secretary-General of the Palestinian Workers' Union
> 
> For Israel, creating jobs and providing employment for Palestinian Arabs makes sense, though the motivation differs between creating jobs for West Bank Arabs and Arabs from Gaza.
> 
> Last year, The Times of Israel reported that Israel was distributing 16,000 new work permits, in an effort to support the Palestinian economy which faced reduced international aid and a difficult year due to the pandemic. But more than shoring up Abbas,
> 
> --------
> 
> This would explain Sinwar's change in tactics, from inciting _Gazans_ against Israel to inciting _Arabs in Israel_, claiming that Hamas is the defender of Al Aqsa and calling on them to attack Jews in order to defend it.
> 
> But Gazan employment in Israel is apparently not the only source of pressure on Sinwar.
> 
> Last week, Hamas announced that the health of one of the 2 Israeli hostages it holds is in danger. The terrorist group is trying to use them as bargaining chips to gain the release of terrorists and the periodic updates about their health is psychological manipulation towards that end. However, both of them suffer from mental illness, and because of the sympathy that creates, the Hamas exploitation of the hostages is not getting the leaders the response they expected.
> 
> And that is another problem for Sinwar:
> -------
> 
> When it was first suggested that Hamas should be included in the 2007 elections in Gaza, it was suggested that having the responsibilities of government would have "a moderating influence" on the terrorist group. The current situation is _not_ a confirmation of that suggestion. The issue of Gazans working in Israel is not a moderating _influence_ -- it is _pressure_ applied by Israel on Sinwar to maintain calm in order to protect his position and stay in power, even as he tries to take credit for this boost to the economy. His "campaign promise" to his fellow terrorists, on the other hand, applies pressure on Sinwar to foment violence.
> 
> Al-Monitor claims that Israel is in fact taking a degree of risk every time it takes steps to either create new jobs for Palestinian Arabs or distributes additional work permits. According to this view, these workers could potentially be recruited to carry out attacks inside Israel. Such concerns are all the more credible in light of the violence we have seen Hamas instigate.
> 
> For years, Hamas terrorist leaders have been exploiting Gazans as human shields for protection in order to evade the consequences of their actions. Yet, regardless of how they feel about Israel, Gazans are practical enough to work there in order to make a living -- and they expect Sinwar and the other Hamas leaders not to mess up their opportunity to support their families, something that Hamas on its own is consistently failing to do.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Understands Israel Has A Means Of Deterrence That May Be Even Stronger Than Iron Dome (Daled Amos)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Why would anyone need to work in Israel?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Why would anyone need to work in Israel?


You are not seriously asking that question to unemployed Palestinians, are you?

Do you see Egypt offering jobs for them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You are not seriously asking that question to unemployed Palestinians, are you?
> 
> Do you see Egypt offering jobs for them?


I don't see Egypt bombing their factories and destroying their crops.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see Egypt bombing their factories and destroying their crops.


Egypt put a very deep wall to keep their tunnels out.  Egypt does not give a darn about the people in Gaza, as proven when they abandoned it after they lost the war in 1967.

But then, not Lebanon, not Syria, not Morocco, not Libya, etc.  Not one other country offering the Palestinians of Gaza and Judea and Samaria a decent job for their livelihood. 

They need jobs to feed their families.  Jobs Hamas and the PA refuse to create.

Do you want those families to starve?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Egypt put a very deep wall to keep their tunnels out. Egypt does not give a darn about the people in Gaza, as proven when they abandoned it after they lost the war in 1967.


Sisi is a coup dictator who gets billions from the US.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sisi is a coup dictator who gets billions from the US.


Don't change the subject.   Why do none of the other Muslim countries give jobs to the Palestinians in Gaza or Judea and Samaria?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Don't change the subject.   Why do none of the other Muslim countries give jobs to the Palestinians in Gaza or Judea and Samaria?


Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?


What could be the reason why you did not answer my question? 

Isn't it a Muslim Nation?

Isn't it an Arab Nation?


Where is the neighborly, brotherly love from one Arab to another?  What does it cost to give the ones who do not have much, a job to help them feed their families?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al Awda Video Quilt​


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Al Awda Video Quilt​


They left their villages at the command of their Arab leaders. Proof?  The ones in the North stayed at the urge of the Israelis.

Jews are indigenous to the land of Palestine.  The Arabs are the invaders since the 7th century.  They do know that.

ONLY the people who left at their leaders urging can be called refugees, not the next generations, regardless of what the ones who want to destroy Israel say.
It means that about 20,000 only, are eligible to return, as long as they are not a threat to Israel and its populations.  

Time to undo UWRA and let those people go on with their lives and have decent and peaceful lives wherever they want to live.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: If you received a foreign passport, would you leave Palestine?​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?


Good god you're an ass.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians: If you received a foreign passport, would you leave Palestine?​


Those are the Palestinians who have a good life.  Not only out via Israel, but out via Egypt.


But for those in Gaza and Judea and Samaria who are not so lucky, this is their reality:

For over a decade, the Gaza Strip — controlled by the Islamist militant group Hamas, blockaded by its neighbors, difficult to leave — has amounted to an experiment in human isolation.

Now there is a new escape route. Egypt suddenly opened its border with Gaza in May 2018, and, facing increasingly unbearable living conditions, tens of thousands of Gazans are believed to have crossed that border and scattered across the world, in the latest chapter in a mass exodus of migrants out of the troubled Middle East.

"I didn't find my future here," says Zeid al Kurdi, 25, at the Gaza-Egypt border with just a backpack and small rolling suitcase.

He grew up in a refugee camp and, like most Gazans, relied on United Nations food rations. His family's house was destroyed in an Israeli airstrike in 2008, during the first of three wars that Hamas and Israel have fought, and his father went broke paying off a loan to rebuild it.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism lives and breathes on the recruitment and grooming of children who the pallys use as cannon fodder.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They never cared about "Palestine" before WWI.  They did not care about being Palestinians before Israel became Independent.  And it took till 1964 for Arafat to adopt the nationality.   He means " Palestine belongs to Islam, from the river to the sea .  The hypocrisy and hatred for Jews is very visible ]


In a recent speech, a top PA official made it clear that the PA and Fatah are dishonest when they tell Israel and the international community that they want to live side by side with Israel and “only” aspire to a Palestinian state in the “1967 borders.” 

Addressing a conference in Jenin, the region’s District Governor Akram Rajoub instructed Palestinians to teach their children that “Palestine” is exclusively for “the Palestinians.” He stressed that the message to “be sown in the minds of children” is that “Palestine” stretches “from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.” Rajoub further clarified that while the Palestinians may have “agreed” to a “Palestine” in the “1967 borders,” what they really believe is that the entire area “belongs to the Palestinians”: 

------
Rajoub’s remarks are in stark contrast to a recent statement by PA and Fatah Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. Speaking to EU Representative to the PA Sven Kuhn von Bergsdorff and other ambassadors and representatives of European countries at the signing of a €224 million financing agreement for the year 2021, Abbas first mentioned that “Europe recognizes the vision of the two-state solution on the 1967 borders.” He then defined the PA’s desired “Palestine” as only 22% of “historic Palestine,” before upping the ante to 45%. He mentioned that he had also made this clear to “the American envoys.” His message to the international community: The Palestinians will be content with part of “historic Palestine”:


(full article online)









						PA message to kids: “Palestine belongs to the Palestinians from the river to the sea” | PMW Analysis
					

Libel about Palestine




					palwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ They never cared about "Palestine" before WWI.  They did not care about being Palestinians before Israel became Independent.  And it took till 1964 for Arafat to adopt the nationality.   He means " Palestine belongs to Islam, from the river to the sea .  The hypocrisy and hatred for Jews is very visible ]
> 
> 
> In a recent speech, a top PA official made it clear that the PA and Fatah are dishonest when they tell Israel and the international community that they want to live side by side with Israel and “only” aspire to a Palestinian state in the “1967 borders.”
> 
> Addressing a conference in Jenin, the region’s District Governor Akram Rajoub instructed Palestinians to teach their children that “Palestine” is exclusively for “the Palestinians.” He stressed that the message to “be sown in the minds of children” is that “Palestine” stretches “from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.” Rajoub further clarified that while the Palestinians may have “agreed” to a “Palestine” in the “1967 borders,” what they really believe is that the entire area “belongs to the Palestinians”:
> 
> ------
> Rajoub’s remarks are in stark contrast to a recent statement by PA and Fatah Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. Speaking to EU Representative to the PA Sven Kuhn von Bergsdorff and other ambassadors and representatives of European countries at the signing of a €224 million financing agreement for the year 2021, Abbas first mentioned that “Europe recognizes the vision of the two-state solution on the 1967 borders.” He then defined the PA’s desired “Palestine” as only 22% of “historic Palestine,” before upping the ante to 45%. He mentioned that he had also made this clear to “the American envoys.” His message to the international community: The Palestinians will be content with part of “historic Palestine”:
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA message to kids: “Palestine belongs to the Palestinians from the river to the sea” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Libel about Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org





Sixties Fan said:


> He stressed that the message to “be sown in the minds of children” is that “Palestine” stretches “from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.” Rajoub further clarified that while the Palestinians may have “agreed” to a “Palestine” in the “1967 borders,” what they really believe is that the entire area “belongs to the Palestinians”:


It is true that Israel sits on unceded Palestinian territory.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> It is true that Israel sits on unceded Palestinian territory.



Israel was old Ottoman territory.
There is no Palestinian territory. 
Never was.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Israel was old Ottoman territory.
> There is no Palestinian territory.
> Never was.


Link?

Of course not


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not


We are not playing your worthless link games.

Ottomans lost their Empire.

Palestine was a region with some land owners.
Some of those owners sold their land to Jews.  Bye, bye.

Palestine was never a country with a capital, a currency, an Emperor, King, Monarch, etc.

Get used to it, no matter how hard you refuse to acknowledge it.

Never will acknowledge it?   Your problem.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?
> 
> Of course not



I have no link to a Palestinian country made of Palestinian territory.
When did such a country exist? Where? Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mounir Chafiq (born 1936) is a Palestinian politician and is described as an intellectual. His books include Islam in Struggle for Civilization (1992) and Islam and the Challenges of the Contemporary World (1995.) He is coordinator of the Islamic Nationalist Congress.

He writes in Al-Binaa what Israel's goals are:



> Anyone who does not reach an absolute conviction that this entity [Israel] *represents absolute hostility to Palestine and its people* is mistaken, as he considers  Palestine "the land of Israel", and its people, all its people, must be uprooted from it and completely Judaize it. Anyone who does not reach a certain conviction that this entity *wants to tighten the Zionist control over all the Arab countries*, based on the overwhelming military superiority over them, collectively and individually, is mistaken. Anyone who does not reach an absolute conviction that this entity *wants to demolish the Al-Aqsa Mosque* and build the alleged temple in its place, and denies any religious right of the Muslims of the world in Jerusalem and Palestine, because it is the “Land of Israel” and that the non-Jews on it are “strangers” and what is considered sacred Islamic mentioned in the Qur’an, or in Islamic history, is not sacred. Some of them are considered Jewish holy places, as they claim.
> 
> It is not right for a member of the Third World, or the global left, or the free people of the world, not to consider the Zionist entity an industry of colonialism, and global racism that was practiced against the Palestinian people, as it was not limited to the military invasion to seize Palestine, but rather uprooted its people, And he is practicing a policy of extermination and displacement against him, to be replaced by racist settlers, who were brought in from all parts of the earth.
> 
> That is why it is not right for those who do not acknowledge all these facts, old and new, and those who come from its nature after it, to deal with the issue of the Zionist entity in any way that contradicts, or ignores, this hostile nature as an absolute hostility to Palestine and its people....
> 
> For this reason, it is absurd for anyone to imagine the possibility of coexistence with the Zionist entity, far from its conditions and nature.



As always, there is no Palestinian who publicly disagrees.

(full article online)









						Crazed Jew-hatred is not an anomaly for Palestinians. It is mainstream.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


>



A mere child.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> We are not playing your worthless link games.
> 
> Ottomans lost their Empire.
> 
> Palestine was a region with some land owners.
> Some of those owners sold their land to Jews.  Bye, bye.
> 
> Palestine was never a country with a capital, a currency, an Emperor, King, Monarch, etc.
> 
> Get used to it, no matter how hard you refuse to acknowledge it.
> 
> Never will acknowledge it?   Your problem.


Is deflection all you got? Keep dancing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Is deflection all you got? Keep dancing.


Is your nonsense and lack of history all you got!!!

You never prove anything and think you know more than the facts of history.
So, where is your proof?  Not one post of yours has factual history in it.

One of the biggest fools in the history of Jew hatred who continues to lie and lie in order to destroy Israel.

Loser


----------



## Hollie

They're at it again. The islamic terrorists are making claims to land that was never theirs. 












						Palestinian Media Watch - A window to Palestinian society | PMW
					

Palestinian Media Watch is a research institute that studies Palestinian society from a broad range of perspectives by monitoring and analyzing the Palestinian Authority through its media and schoolbooks. PMW’s major focus is on the messages that the Palestinian leaders send to the population.




					palwatch.org
				




PA message to kids: “Palestine belongs to the Palestinians from the river to the sea”
Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 6, 2022


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Is deflection all you got? Keep dancing.



And still nothing on where in the text of the Treaty of Lausanne your imagined “country of Pal’istan” was invented or identification of those “new states” you claim were invented.  

Is skedaddle all you got? Keep dancing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:

😂


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had is over for more Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

There have been some shocking murders of women in the Arab world recently, such as that of Nayera Ashraf, 21, stabbed to death in broad daylight in Egypt by a man whose marriage proposal she rejected, and Iman Arsheed, a Jordanian nursing student shot multiple times for similar reasons. 

In response, women throughout the Arab world called a general strike for two hours on Wednesday to protest these and similar murders by a patriarchal Arab society.

In Gaza, dozens of women joined in the strike as well. But the rules are different in Palestinian ruled areas.

They had to add an anti-Israel angle.

Gaza's AISHA Association for Woman and Child Protection sponsored the protest. A speaker from that group said, "We in feminist organizations, women's rights organizations, and our allies announce our support for the cross-border women's strike campaign, to demand an end to the systematic violence and oppression of women in the Arab region. We are appalled that women are still being deprived of their basic rights, including the right to life, and we are outraged by the escalation of brutal murders of women in various countries in the region." 

But AISHA spokesperson Heba Al-Danaf took  pains to say that this is not only a protest against femicide throughout the Arab world, but also against Israel, saying that "the Israeli occupation is one of the reasons that contribute to the continuation of murders against Palestinian women."

By adding this gratuitous and absurd anti-Israel message, the group completely undermines its goals. Suddenly, it is not Arab men who are at fault for killing Arab women - but Israel. Arab women are murdered throughout the Middle East - but in Gaza, it is Israel's fault. 

This takes Arab men off the hook. It isn't the patriarchy or misogyny or male supremacy that makes them treat women like garbage - it is the "occupation."

Palestinian Arabs grow up with the unshakeable belief that everything bad about their situation is Israel's fault, and anything that takes away from that message must be muted. This pervasive antisemitism hurts the Palestinian themselves by diluting and misdirecting the issues towards an enemy that they cannot control. 

Gaza men beat and murder women, and Israel is blamed. 











						Gaza women join Arab protest against femicide and "honor killings" - but must include the mandatory anti-Israel angle
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The PA press has not reported further on the trial against Banat’s suspected murderers or their “vacation.” 

*The following is a longer excerpt of the report by the independent Palestinian news agency Wattan: *



> *Independent Palestinian news agency Wattan host:* “Yesterday [June 21, 2022] news items were published about the *release of those accused of assassinating Nizar Banat *(see note below -Ed.), 14 people in the case of Nizar Banat’s assassination. Note the date as we are approaching the first anniversary [of Banat’s death]. A letter was published on social media, whose headline is ‘The spread of the Coronavirus epidemic in the [prison] rehabilitation and training centers.’ …The letter says: ‘Due to the spread of the Coronavirus epidemic in the Palestinian territories and following the statements made by the head of medical services on the rise in the number of those infected with the Coronavirus in the rehabilitation and training centers… There is crowding in the rehabilitation and training facilities, a commitment to bring the prisoners at the times of the court hearings, and the letter of the head of the preventative medicine division of the northern districts (i.e., the West Bank) recommending to close the rehabilitation and training center in Ramallah – it’s a long letter – and in accordance with the letter of the defendants’ lawyer, out of a desire to protect our people from the epidemic, and due to the emergency situation – this is what the letter says – and the desire for the rehabilitation, military trial, and medical immunity of our people who are carrying out Ribat (i.e., religious conflict over land claimed to be Islamic), we have no opposition to granting the prisoners in this case a vacation until July 2, 2022, while providing guarantees for their health and carrying out medical checks on them and taking preventative measures. This is what the letter that was published says. What strengthened people’s belief in the accuracy of this are the blessings for the defendants that were published on social media wishing them health, and pictures of receptions that were held for them, which provided people with evidence that the news of their release was true. The military prosecution denied the matter, the human rights organizations attempted to receive precise reports, but they received denials of every report on the matter.”
> [YouTube channel of Wattan, independent Palestinian news agency, June 22, 2022]




(full article online)









						PA critic Nizar Banat’s suspected murderers sent on vacation by the PA | PMW Analysis
					

PA critic Nizar Banat’s suspected murderers sent on vacation by the PA




					palwatch.org


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Daydreaming, but not about peace.  Never about peace.  Peace, the Islamic way. ]

_On June 19, 2022, a conference was held at Al-Umma University in Gaza under the title “Palestinian Sovereignty, the Strategic Variables and Future Paths.” The speakers at the conference included Hamas political bureau chief Isma’il Haniya, political bureau member Moussa Abu Marzouq and other officials. In their speeches they addressed the changes taking place in the world and the region, with focus on the war in Ukraine. They assessed that, after this war, America is likely to lose its global hegemony, resulting in a multipolar world order. In light of this, the Hamas officials stressed the importance of opening up to America’s rivals, Russia and China,  and of forming strategic alliances with all forces that support the resistance, in order to attain the liberation of Palestine and the right of return. They predicted that the changes taking place in the international arena, and the emergence of a multipolar world order, will have a positive impact on the Arab and Muslim world, and especially on the Palestinian issue.

The following are translated excerpts from the speeches delivered by Haniya and Abu Marzouq at the conference.

(full article online)_











						Senior Hamas Officials: We Must Form Strategic Alliances With Supporters Of The Resistance And Open Up To Russia, China And Iran – In Light Of The Changing World Order, Shrinking Of American Hegemony
					

A conference was held on June 19, 2022, at Al-Umma University in Gaza under the title "Palestinian Sovereignty, the Strategic Variables and Future Paths."




					www.memri.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ You better believe it.  They are all civilians. ]


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Probably anticipating a new crop of summer gee-had camp sacrificial children.

The territories occupied by the Islamic terrorist cultists is something of a mill that churns out little Islamic terrorist flesh-bots in the service of a 7th century ideology. 









						Official PA daily urges Palestinians “to advance the acts of struggle against the Zionist colonialists in all parts of Palestine” | PMW Analysis
					

Official PA daily urges Palestinians “to advance the acts of struggle against the Zionist colonialists in all parts of Palestine”




					palwatch.org
				




Official PA daily urges Palestinians “to advance the acts of struggle against the Zionist colonialists in all parts of Palestine”​Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Jul 7, 2022
A column in the official PA daily urged Palestinians to “contribute directly to raising the bar of popular resistance” – a term used by the PA to refer to violence and terror, among other things.  

Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, a regular columnist for the paper, continued his incitement by calling to “advance the acts of struggle,” “liberate Palestine,” and bring about “the complete removal of Zionist colonialism”: 


> “All the factions of political activity and all the sectors of the [Palestinian] people must… *contribute directly to raising the bar of popular resistance* (i.e., term used by Palestinians, which also refers to the use of violence and terror) and strengthening the spirit of political partnership and partnership on the ground. *This is in order to advance the acts of struggle against the Zionist colonialists in all parts of Palestine until its liberation and until the complete removal of Zionist colonialism from its land.*”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 28, 2022]


----------



## Hollie

They do tend to be angry, spending a lot of time agonizing over Jews, gays, their continued failures, Jews. Kuffar and Jews. 











						Al-Aqsa Mosque Imam Mohammed Saleem Ali In Homophobic Diatribe During Friday Sermon: The Palestinian People Will Not Allow A Single Homosexual On Our Land; Such Perversion Brings The Wrath Of Allah On Us All
					

Palestinian Islamic scholar Mohammed Saleem Ali said in a Friday, July 1, 2022 sermon at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem...




					www.memri.org
				





Al-Aqsa Mosque Imam Mohammed Saleem Ali In Homophobic Diatribe During Friday Sermon: The Palestinian People Will Not Allow A Single Homosexual On Our Land; Such Perversion Brings The Wrath Of Allah On Us All


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Liars, thieves and murderers.  How too many generations of Arab Muslims have been destroyed for Islamic supremacy over Jews ]

A column in the official PA daily urged Palestinians to “contribute directly to raising the bar of popular resistance” – a term used by the PA to refer to violence and terror, among other things.  

Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, a regular columnist for the paper, continued his incitement by calling to “advance the acts of struggle,” “liberate Palestine,” and bring about “the complete removal of Zionist colonialism”: 



> “All the factions of political activity and all the sectors of the [Palestinian] people must… *contribute directly to raising the bar of popular resistance* (i.e., term used by Palestinians, which also refers to the use of violence and terror) and strengthening the spirit of political partnership and partnership on the ground. *This is in order to advance the acts of struggle against the Zionist colonialists in all parts of Palestine until its liberation and until the complete removal of Zionist colonialism from its land.*”
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, June 28, 2022]


As Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, PA Chairman Abbas has himself categorized terror attacks and murders as “peaceful popular uprising.” After 14 Israelis had been murdered during the 2015-2016 ‎terror wave (“The Knife Intifada”), Abbas said: "We want peaceful popular uprising, and that’s what this is": 




















> *Abbas:* “No one called for this uprising and no one asked for it. It stemmed from the hearts of the young... We said to everyone that we want peaceful popular uprising, and that’s what this is. That’s what this is. However, the aggression of firing bullets has come from the Israelis.”
> [Official PA TV, Nov. 16, 2015]



The use of the term “the complete removal of Zionist colonialism from [Palestine’s] land” is entirely in line with the PA and Fatah’s policies. PMW has documented numerous times that the PA’s true intent and political goal is to erase all of Israel and establish “Palestine from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.” 

Fatah likewise expressed this goal recently: 








> *Posted text:* “The national movement’s weapon will continue to speak against the enemy until the end of the occupation and the establishment of the Palestinian state whose capital is Jerusalem. No statute of limitations will apply to *our historical right to take back all the Palestinian land from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, including the [Jordan] River and the [Mediterranean] Sea. We will defend our people with it (i.e., the weapon), and all the international and divine laws guarantee this. To hell with your double standards.” *
> [Official Fatah Facebook page, May 25, 2022



(full article online)









						Expert says the Palestinians smashed the bullet that killed Shireen Abu Akleh before handing it over
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Hollie

It's as though the Pal sociopaths have abandoned any presence that they're rational, thinking humans. 











						PA premier Shtayyeh claims Israel conducting ‘lab experiments’ on Palestinian bodies
					

Israeli Foreign Ministry expresses horror at false and defamatory claim, says Palestinian incitement 'encourages shedding the blood of Israeli civilians'




					www.google.com
				




PA premier Shtayyeh claims Israel conducting ‘lab experiments’ on Palestinian bodies

Israeli Foreign Ministry expresses horror at false and defamatory claim, says Palestinian incitement 'encourages shedding the blood of Israeli civilians'


----------



## Hollie

They do tend to be conspiracy theory addled. 

But seriously, Tawfiq, what has made Arab nations lose interest in the Black Hole of want and perceived entitlement that is Pally'dom is the need to move beyond the failure and retrogression that defines Pally existence. 









						Fatah Central Committee Member Tawfiq Al-Tirawi: The Arab Spring Was An American-Zionist Plot To Make Arab Countries Lose Interest In The Palestinian Cause
					

Fatah Central Committee member Tawfiq Al-Tirawi said in a July 3, 2022 show on Palestinian Authority TV that the Arab co...




					www.memri.org
				




Fatah Central Committee Member Tawfiq Al-Tirawi: The Arab Spring Was An American-Zionist Plot To Make Arab Countries Lose Interest In The Palestinian Cause


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Liars, thieves and murderers.  How too many generations of Arab Muslims have been destroyed for Islamic supremacy over Jews ]
> 
> A column in the official PA daily urged Palestinians to “contribute directly to raising the bar of popular resistance” – a term used by the PA to refer to violence and terror, among other things.
> 
> Omar Hilmi Al-Ghoul, a regular columnist for the paper, continued his incitement by calling to “advance the acts of struggle,” “liberate Palestine,” and bring about “the complete removal of Zionist colonialism”:
> 
> 
> As Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, PA Chairman Abbas has himself categorized terror attacks and murders as “peaceful popular uprising.” After 14 Israelis had been murdered during the 2015-2016 ‎terror wave (“The Knife Intifada”), Abbas said: "We want peaceful popular uprising, and that’s what this is":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The use of the term “the complete removal of Zionist colonialism from [Palestine’s] land” is entirely in line with the PA and Fatah’s policies. PMW has documented numerous times that the PA’s true intent and political goal is to erase all of Israel and establish “Palestine from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.”
> 
> Fatah likewise expressed this goal recently:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expert says the Palestinians smashed the bullet that killed Shireen Abu Akleh before handing it over
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


Expert says the Palestinians smashed the bullet that killed Shireen Abu Akleh before handing it over​
It doesn't matter. You need to have the specific gun that killed her to get a match. I don't see how that could be done.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Expert says the Palestinians smashed the bullet that killed Shireen Abu Akleh before handing it over​
> It doesn't matter. You need to have the specific gun that killed her to get a match. I don't see how that could be done.


It does not matter to those who want to destroy Israel with any lie.  This is just another one they are trying to pin on Israel.

Will the person who smashed the bullet please rise up?  Who told you to do it?

It could only have been to hide that it may have come from a Palestinian weapon.

This is not over.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> It does not matter to those who want to destroy Israel with any lie.  This is just another one they are trying to pin on Israel.
> 
> Will the person who smashed the bullet please rise up?  Who told you to do it?
> 
> It could only have been to hide that it may have come from a Palestinian weapon.
> 
> This is not over.


You do not understand how rifling marks work.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You do not understand how rifling marks work.


You certainly dont.


----------



## Hollie

It's really comical that the pallys steal slogans such as "revolutionary council" from their Iranian masters. 

Just another Pally whining about an occupation that they can't identify.  












						Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Muhammad Al-Lahham Praises Terrorists Who Carried Out Attacks In Israel, Adds: This Is Fatah! We Will Continue Fighting Until We Drive Out The Israeli Occupation
					

Fatah Revolutionary Council member Muhammad Al-Lahham said that Fatah is burning like an ember and can "bring out the fi...




					www.memri.org
				




Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Muhammad Al-Lahham Praises Terrorists Who Carried Out Attacks In Israel, Adds: This Is Fatah! We Will Continue Fighting Until We Drive Out The Israeli Occupation
#9674 | 02:00


----------



## Hollie

At some point, the Israelis may reach the conclusion that their best option to combating islamic terrorism is to simply make the cost to the islamic terrorists too steep.   











						Israeli forces under 'no restrictions' against Palestinian terrorists
					

The IDF's involvement in stifling terror is "dictated only by the operational need," Defense Minister Benny Gantz said.




					www.google.com
				




Israeli forces under 'no restrictions' against Palestinian terrorists - Gantz


The IDF's involvement in stifling terror is "dictated only by the operational need," Defense Minister Benny Gantz said.


----------



## Hollie

With the pallys being errand boys for the Shia Iranian mullacrats, I'd expect to see the Sunni / Salafi looking for confrontation at some point.


----------



## Hollie

Children with rifles. Gee-had is our path.

Selective breeding for the purpose of enhancing a particular form of sociopathy. 

Antisocial personality disorder
Also called: ASPD

Description
A mental health disorder characterized by disregard for other people.
Those with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) may begin to show symptoms in childhood, but the condition can't be diagnosed until adolescence or adulthood.










						At Fatah Rally In Jenin, Young Men And Children Brandishing Rifles Pledge: Jihad Is Our Path!
					

On June 24, 2022, Awda TV (Palestinian Authority) broadcasted a Fatah rally held in Jenin in honor of terrorists killed ...




					www.memri.org
				




At Fatah Rally In Jenin, Young Men And Children Brandishing Rifles Pledge: Jihad Is Our Path!​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Christians in Palestine Under Israeli Occupation​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Are There Still Christians In Palestine?​


----------



## Hollie

Overwhelming, Israel has been successful in preventing Shia Islamic terrorist attacks from Iran aligned Hamas. 

The lesson learned everyday is that the ideological foundation of Hamas and Iran is rooted in the rants of a 7th century Arab warlord. 











						Israel thwarted 172 big attacks, but suffered 7 - Shin Bet chief
					

"Iran and Hamas will not rest until they draw blood," Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar said.




					m.jpost.com
				




"Iran and Hamas will not rest until they draw blood," Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar said.​
The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) thwarted 172 substantial terrorist attacks in the last year, while failing to stop seven, agency chief Ronen Bar said on Tuesday at an intelligence community awards ceremony.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I would hope the Great Satan would be much more aggressive in shutting off the money spigot that finances the Pally welfare fraud. 












						US slaps sanctions on Hamas moneymen funding $500 million terror finance network
					

Treasury targets former and current manager of secret investment fund used to help Gaza-ruling terror group operate, as well as others involved in keeping it in the black




					www.timesofisrael.com
				



24 May 2022,

WASHINGTON — The US Treasury Department on Tuesday announced that it had sanctioned a Hamas official along with a network of backers of the terror group.

The network is overseen by Hamas’s Investment Office, which runs the day-to-day management of more than $500 million in assets, including firms in Sudan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, and the United Arab Emirates. The targeted individuals being sanctioned by the Treasury Department under a 2001 executive order that allows for the financial holdings of designated individuals or groups to be blocked in order to stem terror funding.


----------



## Hollie

The protests will stop if we give them more welfare money.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had means sacrifice.... so the Hamas leadership can have nice things.


----------



## P F Tinmore

I Choose to be Palestinian - Dana Dajani​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza Sea Minor - Checkpoint 303, Ghassan Kanafani​


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza Sea Minor - Checkpoint 303, Ghassan Kanafani​



Look at all the losers in that picture.






Marx, Che, Ghassan.......who did I miss?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Noor Daoud/ My kind of toy​


----------



## P F Tinmore

American Lawyer Lamis Deek at NYC Quds Day Rally: The War for the Liberation of Palestine Is Coming​


----------



## Hollie

Some insight from PMW regarding propaganda tactics by the Islamic terrorists.












						From incitement to terror and attempted murder: The PA-Fatah attack on Jewish worshippers at Joseph’s Tomb | PMW Analysis
					

From incitement to terror and attempted murder: The PA-Fatah attack on Jewish worshippers at Joseph’s Tomb




					palwatch.org
				



From incitement to terror and attempted murder: The PA-Fatah attack on Jewish worshippers at Joseph’s Tomb​Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 10, 2022



As Palestinian Media Watch often reports, the Palestinian Authority continuously incites violence and terror. As a general rule, it is often difficult to attribute specific attacks to a particular event, speech, or publication, rather than the general atmosphere of incitement. However, on some occasions even though the incitement is subtle, timing and geographical location leave little doubt that incitement fueled a specific terror attack.

The terror attack carried out by Palestinian terrorists on the night of June 29, in which they attempted to murder Jews visiting the site of Joseph’s Tomb, is a perfect example.

The tomb of the biblical Joseph, son of Jacob, rests in the city of Nablus, which is under the complete control of the PA. It is one of the sites specifically mentioned as a “Jewish Holy Site” in the 1995 Israeli-Palestinian Interim Peace Agreement. Agreed security arrangements are meant to “ensure free, unimpeded and secure access to the site” and “ensure the peaceful use of such site, to prevent any potential instances of disorder…” (Article V, annex I, Israeli-Palestinian Interim Peace Agreement).

Despite the explicit commitment, Jews are only permitted to visit the site - usually only once a month - in organized convoys protected by the Israeli army under the cover of darkness. Jews who attempt to enter the site without prior coordination face potential death, as was the case with Ben-Yosef Livnat, who visited the site in April 2011 without coordination, and was killed by members of the PA Security Forces.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist talking heads are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

If I self identify as a pally 'refugee', can I get a UNRWA welfare check?


----------



## Hollie

'Palestinuan people''?

Cults typically self-destruct. We see that dynamic with the Pallys.


----------



## Hollie

Now this is interesting. These ''hate-fests'' promoted by Islamic terrorist supporting cabals can have consequences. 














						'Pro-Palestinian' rallies violence against Jews were always connected
					

Pro-Palestinian activism has re-packaged genocidal terminology and tried to hide it behind claims of “mistranslation.”




					www.jpost.com
				


'Pro-Palestinian' rallies violence against Jews were always connected - analysis​Pro-Palestinian activism has re-packaged genocidal terminology and tried to hide it behind claims of “mistranslation.”​By SETH J. FRANTZMAN

Published: JUNE 30, 2022 22:45
Updated: JULY 2, 2022 15:28





Pro-Palestinian demonstrators attend a protest following a flare-up of Israeli-Palestinian violence, in London, Britain May 22, 2021.
(photo credit: TOBY MELVILLE/REUTERS)


“Federal prosecutors have charged a pro-Palestinian activist with a hate crime for an assault on a pro-Israeli Jewish man that took place following an April protest in Midtown, Manhattan,” reported _The New York Post_ on Thursday. This sets an important precedent.


----------



## Hollie

There's such a thing as a 'university of pal'istan''.  At least that's what the pallys call it. 

Apparently, there was some faux ''outrage'' when the Islamic terrorist franchise controlling Gaza'istan arrested the head of the ''university''. 

This was against the law... you know... laws that Islamic terrorists are expected to follow. 

Ahem, Salem. Did you just fall off the turnip truck gee-had Toyota?













						Hamas arrests university president in Gaza, provoking outrage from Palestinians
					

The arrest of Salem al-Sabah, head of the University of Palestine in the Gaza Strip, sparked widespread condemnation among academics.




					www.al-monitor.com
				




Hamas arrests university president in Gaza, provoking outrage from Palestinians​The arrest of Salem al-Sabah, head of the University of Palestine in the Gaza Strip, sparked widespread condemnation among academics.

Hamas security forces recently arrested Salem al-Sabah, head of the University of Palestine in the Gaza Strip, causing an uproar among academics who praise Sabah's performance.

The arrest was carried out June 15 by members of the military police without any arrest warrant, which is against the Palestinian law. According to the Palestinian Criminal Code, the Public Prosecution is the only authority concerned with initiating criminal cases.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> If I self identify as a pally 'refugee', can I get a UNRWA welfare check?


Every so-called Palestinian origin person, including myself, a Canadian citizen, Gigi & Bella Hadid’s family, citizens in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, & egypt are counted as refugees. 

Indeed they are but they do not qualify for UNRWA assistance.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Every so-called Palestinian origin person, including myself, a Canadian citizen, Gigi & Bella Hadid’s family, citizens in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, & egypt are counted as refugees.
> 
> Indeed they are but they do not qualify for UNRWA assistance.


Indeed, no link

Link?

Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Indeed, no link
> 
> Link?
> 
> Of course not.


Everyone who was kicked out is a refugee. Not everyone qualifies for aid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Everyone who was kicked out is a refugee. Not everyone qualifies for aid.


Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed islamic terrorists. Posing as females.


----------



## Hollie

Long past time the UN sponsored islamic terrorist finance agency was shut down.


----------



## Hollie

Another Hamas fail.


----------



## Hollie

It is a shame that the UN has become little more than a mouthpiece for Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians: What is your solution to the conflict?​


----------



## Hollie

Another one rides the bus.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

There's a mental illness associated with this Cult. 











						PA Security Forces give “military training” to 7-year-old kids to fight Israel - “the sons of dogs” | PMW Analysis
					

“the sons of dogs”




					palwatch.org
				




PA Security Forces give “military training” to 7-year-old kids to fight Israel - “the sons of dogs”

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Maurice Hirsh Adv.  | Jul 11, 2022


PA gives kids weapons’ training 

As part of ideological training, PA teaches kids to admire terrorist murderer Mughrabi who led killing of 37, among them 12 children 

Pres. Biden must condemn this recruitment of Palestinian children to terror and condition any future warming of relations between the US and the PA on the PA’s cessation of its abuse of its own children


----------



## Hollie

Here's some advise, Jibril. Hamas will accept the assignment of whatever movement writes the welfare checks.

At the moment, Hamas is a Shia islamist terrorist movement. But that will eventually change. If ISIS pays better, Hamas will jump in bed with them. 





__





						Senior Fatah Official Jibril Rajoub: Hamas Must Decide Whether They Are A Palestinian Patriotic Movement Or An Islamist Movement; Saudi Arabia Has Assured Us It Will Not Normalize Relations With Israel Until The Palestinian Issue Is Resolved
					

On July 7, 2022, Fatah Central Committee Secretary Jibril Rajoub appeared in interviews on Asharq TV (Saudi Arabia) and ...




					www.memri.org
				




Senior Fatah Official Jibril Rajoub: Hamas Must Decide Whether They Are A Palestinian Patriotic Movement Or An Islamist Movement; Saudi Arabia Has Assured Us It Will Not Normalize Relations With Israel Until The Palestinian Issue Is Resolved​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There's a mental illness associated with this Cult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Security Forces give “military training” to 7-year-old kids to fight Israel - “the sons of dogs” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> “the sons of dogs”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Security Forces give “military training” to 7-year-old kids to fight Israel - “the sons of dogs”
> 
> Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Maurice Hirsh Adv.  | Jul 11, 2022
> 
> 
> PA gives kids weapons’ training
> 
> As part of ideological training, PA teaches kids to admire terrorist murderer Mughrabi who led killing of 37, among them 12 children
> 
> Pres. Biden must condemn this recruitment of Palestinian children to terror and condition any future warming of relations between the US and the PA on the PA’s cessation of its abuse of its own children





Hollie said:


> PA gives kids weapons’ training


I had weapons training when I was a kid (7-8) Safety and target practice.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I had weapons training when I was a kid (7-8) Safety and target practice.


And you failed to martyr yourself for the glory of Arafat’s bank account.


----------



## Hollie

It’s a perverted game of denial that western welfare money isn’t used by Arabs to cultivate generations of sociopaths.


----------



## Hollie

What an audacious idea. When dealing with a “_third-world nationalist, ethnic, or Islamic fundamentalist movement”,_ such as the Islamist gee-had, you apply sufficient measures to make the gee-had untenable. 











						Increased, targeted force mitigated Israel’s last terror wave
					

Israeli forces, again, entered Palestinian towns and villages almost daily to make arrests, leading to a 90% decrease in terrorism.




					www.jns.org
				




(June 21, 2022 / Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security) In a world dominated by the progressive left-wing media and agenda, to argue the virtues of force is considered taboo. (Unless, that is, you’re a third-world nationalist, ethnic, or Islamic fundamentalist movement.)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It’s a perverted game of denial that western welfare money isn’t used by Arabs to cultivate generations of sociopaths.


Are antisemite and terrorist cards the only things left in your hand?


----------



## Mindful

Shame look at this suffering "Palestinian" Arab with a Mercedes Benz....I mean it's not even an AMG, this is just so sad! It must be the occupation!!!







Your browser is not able to display this video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Are antisemite and terrorist cards the only things left in your hand?


Your old, tired slogans are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

Mindful said:


> Shame look at this suffering "Palestinian" Arab with a Mercedes Benz....I mean it's not even an AMG, this is just so sad! It must be the occupation!!!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 669258


$Billions in infidel welfare dollars buys nice things.


----------



## Hollie

Because Biden likely doesn't know where he is... 

The islamic terrorists have no issue with raising the payscale of the sociopathic killers they create because the expectation is that the welfare dollars will continue to flow. 












						As Biden meets with Abbas, Abbas raises the salaries of hundreds of terrorists | PMW Analysis
					

Salary raise to terrorists




					palwatch.org
				




As Biden meets with Abbas, Abbas raises the salaries of hundreds of terrorists

Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 12, 2022
In their meeting on this coming Friday, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas will pressure US President Joe Biden to renew the US aid to the PA. Abbas needs the renewed US aid to help him meet the ever-rising cost of the PA’s terror rewarding “Pay-for-Slay” policy. In essence, Abbas is going to ask President Biden to abolish the Taylor Force Act, or at the very least, bypass it and thereby desecrate its spirit. 

The terrorist murderers Fahmi and Ramadan Mashahreh are just two of hundreds of Palestinian terrorist prisoners who have recently received or are about to receive a rise in salary from the Palestinian Authority.  

Arrested in July 2002, the Mashahreh brothers are 2 of the terrorists responsible for the bus bombing on June 18, 2002, in which 19 people were murdered and tens were injured. The Mashahrehs are members of Hamas - the internationally designated terror organization - and were residents of Jerusalem, who used the freedom of movement enjoyed by Israeli residents to carry out their attack. Having now been in prison for 20 years, the PA considers the Mashahrehs to be “veteran prisoners.”


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Hollie said:


> There's a mental illness associated with


All that inbreeding.   Lowered intelligence level is another.

Sure, the psychopathic behavior stems from the sick ideology they follow, but the severe levels of consanguinity plays a big role.in the dysfunction.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Because Biden likely doesn't know where he is...
> 
> The islamic terrorists have no issue with raising the payscale of the sociopathic killers they create because the expectation is that the welfare dollars will continue to flow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Biden meets with Abbas, Abbas raises the salaries of hundreds of terrorists | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Salary raise to terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Biden meets with Abbas, Abbas raises the salaries of hundreds of terrorists
> 
> Maurice Hirsch, Adv.  | Jul 12, 2022
> In their meeting on this coming Friday, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas will pressure US President Joe Biden to renew the US aid to the PA. Abbas needs the renewed US aid to help him meet the ever-rising cost of the PA’s terror rewarding “Pay-for-Slay” policy. In essence, Abbas is going to ask President Biden to abolish the Taylor Force Act, or at the very least, bypass it and thereby desecrate its spirit.
> 
> The terrorist murderers Fahmi and Ramadan Mashahreh are just two of hundreds of Palestinian terrorist prisoners who have recently received or are about to receive a rise in salary from the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Arrested in July 2002, the Mashahreh brothers are 2 of the terrorists responsible for the bus bombing on June 18, 2002, in which 19 people were murdered and tens were injured. The Mashahrehs are members of Hamas - the internationally designated terror organization - and were residents of Jerusalem, who used the freedom of movement enjoyed by Israeli residents to carry out their attack. Having now been in prison for 20 years, the PA considers the Mashahrehs to be “veteran prisoners.”





Hollie said:


> Hamas - the internationally designated terror organization


No they are not. There are about 190 countries in the world. Only a handful call them terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> No they are not. There are about 190 countries in the world. Only a handful call them terrorists.


Yes they are. There are more than a handful of countries that have designated various Pal / Iranian groups as Islamic terrorist organizations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Yes they are. There are more than a handful of countries that have designated various Pal / Iranian groups as Islamic terrorist organizations.


Links?


----------



## Hollie

This is the welcome to the civilized world that is presented by an angry, retrograde, politico-religious ideology that had not managed to claw its way out of the 7th century


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Links?


Links?


----------



## Hollie

From the 2010 or thereabouts pal breeding cycle.


----------



## Hollie

It's really comical how Arab pallys insist on using terms such as "our homeland" insisting that they somehow own land that was Ottoman territory. 











						PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland” | PMW Analysis
					

PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland”




					palwatch.org
				




PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland”
Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jul 13, 2022


PA denies Jewish history in the land: “The occupier in our land has no memories. We remain here” 

Abbas and the PA are getting ready to meet US President Biden. Abbas will probably say to him what PA leaders and officials always say to foreign leaders: That they only want a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders, or 22% of the so-called “historical Palestine." Abbas will stress that they want their capital to be in East Jerusalem and to live side by side in peace with Israel. 

But that is not what Abbas and other PA/Fatah officials say in Arabic to Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

We must put an end to Palestinian apartheid | Opinion
					

In Israel, the world's only Jewish state, the rule of law treats all as equals.




					www.newsweek.com
				




Apartheid has existed throughout history in only the most restrictive and backward of countries—including, perhaps most infamously, South Africa.

But with much less fanfare, apartheid policies—policies that expressly favor Muslims over believers of all other religions—also pervade large swaths of the Islamic world. In fact, the so-called Palestinian territories represent one of the most blatant apartheid regimes operating in the world today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's really comical how Arab pallys insist on using terms such as "our homeland" insisting that they somehow own land that was Ottoman territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland” | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA to Israelis: “You must leave, because you have no history in our Jerusalem, and it is not your homeland”
> Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus  | Jul 13, 2022
> 
> 
> PA denies Jewish history in the land: “The occupier in our land has no memories. We remain here”
> 
> Abbas and the PA are getting ready to meet US President Biden. Abbas will probably say to him what PA leaders and officials always say to foreign leaders: That they only want a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders, or 22% of the so-called “historical Palestine." Abbas will stress that they want their capital to be in East Jerusalem and to live side by side in peace with Israel.
> 
> But that is not what Abbas and other PA/Fatah officials say in Arabic to Palestinians.


Palestinians can trace their families back for hundreds of years on their land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians can trace their families back for hundreds of years on their land.


And the English can trace their families back for hundreds of years in Australia, New Zealand, North America, etc

Spaniards can trace their families back for hundreds of years in Central and South America.

Palestinian Arabs can trace their families the same way, after they invaded, conquered and migrated endlessly outside of Arabia all the way to North Africa.

Still........


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians can trace their families back for hundreds of years on their land.



All those years and they never had their own country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> And the English can trace their families back for hundreds of years in Australia, New Zealand, North America, etc
> 
> Spaniards can trace their families back for hundreds of years in Central and South America.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs can trace their families the same way, after they invaded, conquered and migrated endlessly outside of Arabia all the way to North Africa.
> 
> Still........


The Palestinians have been there forever.

At what time did the entire population move out and a whole new population move in?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have been there forever.
> 
> At what time did the entire population move out and a whole new population move in?


You are playing with words.

Palestinian Arabs have not been there before the Mandate for Palestine.

All Palestinians are descended from Arabs who invaded Syria Palestina in the 7th century, and migrated towards it from various areas of the Middle East and Africa by the 20th century.

Do not come with "forever".

They have been FOREVER in Arabia, and not in Ancient Canaan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You are playing with words.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs have not been there before the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> All Palestinians are descended from Arabs who invaded Syria Palestina in the 7th century, and migrated towards it from various areas of the Middle East and Africa by the 20th century.
> 
> Do not come with "forever".
> 
> They have been FOREVER in Arabia, and not in Ancient Canaan.


So, are you saying that the entire existing population moved out and an entire new population from Arabia moved in in the 7th century?

Do you have a link for that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> So, are you saying that the entire existing population moved out and an entire new population from Arabia moved in in the 7th century?
> 
> Do you have a link for that?


Dense.  Always dense.  Too funny.
Making up your own history of the area.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Dense.  Always dense.  Too funny.
> Making up your own history of the area.


I am just clarifying what *you *said.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> I am just clarifying what *you *said.


Re read, and learn to understand what I said.  Also based on factual history.  It is there to be read, if you ever finally decide to read it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Re read, and learn to understand what I said.  Also based on factual history.  It is there to be read, if you ever finally decide to read it.





Sixties Fan said:


> All Palestinians are descended from Arabs who invaded Syria Palestina in the 7th century,


So when did the others leave? Where did they go?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> So when did the others leave? Where did they go?



What others?

The conflict is about exclusive
Arab hegemony in the Middle East and Africa.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> What others?
> 
> The conflict is about exclusive
> Arab hegemony in the Middle East and Africa.


So, there was nobody living there when the Arabs arrived?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> So, there was nobody living there when the Arabs arrived?


You tell us.  You are the history expert here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> You tell us.  You are the history expert here.


You are the one who claims that all of the Palestinians came from Arabia in the 7th century.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> You are the one who claims that all of the Palestinians came from Arabia in the 7th century.


Palestinians are Arabs Muslims.  Arab Muslims invaded Palestine in the 7th Century.  First the Kurds, and then the Arabs.

Actually some came in the 7th century in the second invasion and others came after that. And kept coming.  Just ask their clans.  Their names tell their history of where they came from.

Just like the Europeans coming to the Americas, Australia, etc in the New World.  A few at a time till now we have the population numbers which now live in each place.

And the indigenous peoples of all of the places in the new world will always continue to be the First Nations of those places.  Exactly as the Jews are the First Nation in Palestine.  Long before the Arab Muslims invaded after all the other Foreign invaders, Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians.

I will keep on claiming it until you finally get it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians are Arabs Muslims.  Arab Muslims invaded Palestine in the 7th Century.  First the Kurds, and then the Arabs.
> 
> Actually some came in the 7th century in the second invasion and others came after that. And kept coming.  Just ask their clans.  Their names tell their history of where they came from.
> 
> Just like the Europeans coming to the Americas, Australia, etc in the New World.  A few at a time till now we have the population numbers which now live in each place.
> 
> And the indigenous peoples of all of the places in the new world will always continue to be the First Nations of those places.  Exactly as the Jews are the First Nation in Palestine.  Long before the Arab Muslims invaded after all the other Foreign invaders, Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians.
> 
> I will keep on claiming it until you finally get it.


I hear all of your hokum.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> I hear all of your hokum.


You are actually hearing your own hokum. And it is never ending and very destructive of the whole history of the region.

You are so sweet doing it.  Destructive like a bulldozer.

Lets build some camps for the Jews and deal with the problem, what do you say.  That is what Al Husseini was going to do once Germany should have won the war.

Oooops.  Germany lost.  The Arabs lost, too.

The Jews survived and reclaimed part of their homeland.

Am Israel Chai.

The People of Israel Live


While the Arabs continue to want to kill Jews and destroy Israel because Islam commands them to.  

With a little help of the Tinmores of the world.


----------



## BackAgain

Not that I can even pretend to much care about this stale topic, but:

when do we get to Part 3?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have been there forever.



Then why is it applied to any Arab
with mere 2 years of presence?

Must be a mere coincidence,
like Arabs learning to say _'Palestine' ..._


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> So, there was nobody living there when the Arabs arrived?



Exactly.

If you want to argue otherwise, then why demand
exclusive Arab hegemony over the Middle East and Africa?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. This is just... you know.... racist, probably a _crime against Koranity_ and definitely Islamophobic.



			https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/130038
		

Group says corporations complicit in denial of Palestinian access to water enable Israel’s apartheid regime​
Ooooops. Nevermind.










						Hamas boasts of digging up water pipes to make rockets while US sends them money for more
					

While the people of Gaza go thirsty, Hamas digs up water pipes, fills them with propellant and explosives, preparing to fire them at Israel.




					www.israel365news.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have been there forever.



Link?

Of course not.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Authority and Hamas routinely torture human rights activists, women, LGBT persons, political opponents, so-called “collaborators,” and Palestinians who sell land to Jews, the non-governmental group UN Watch charged Thursday.

The Geneva-based human rights organization made its criticism in a major new report to the UN Committee Against Torture, which will meet next week for two days, on July 19-20, to consider Palestinian compliance with the UN convention against torture and other cruel forms of punishment. The UN panel published the submission on its website.

“Evidence continues to emerge of widespread torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees held in Palestinian custody in the West Bank and Gaza,” said Hillel Neuer, executive director of UN Watch.

UN Watch representatives will present the report to the 10-member committee during a private briefing with human rights groups on July 18, one day before the experts are set to grill a delegation from the Palestinian Authority for the first time since it signed the treaty in 2014.



While the PA is expected to tout how it has fulfilled its promises, UN Watch said the PA’s 67-page response—submitted to the committee four years late—seeks to absolve Palestinian actors of responsibility for complying with the treaty’s prohibitions against torture, and instead points the finger at Israel to deflect attention from the PA’s own record, the actual subject of the UN review.

According to UN Watch legal advisor Dina Rovner, the Palestinian submission “contains no data on the pervasiveness of torture under the PA and Hamas, or on any practical measures implemented to prevent torture by security forces during interrogation, nor does it offer any information on individual cases of torture, justice for victims, or actions to address underlying causes of violations.”

(full article online)









						Rights Group Exposes Palestinian Torture Ahead of First UN Review - UN Watch
					

GENEVA, July 14, 2022 — The Palestinian Authority and Hamas routinely torture human rights activists, women, LGBT persons, political opponents, so-called “collaborators,” and Palestinians who sell land to Jews, the non-governmental group UN Watch charged Thursday. The Geneva-based human rights...



					unwatch.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Oh, dear. This is just... you know.... racist, probably a _crime against Koranity_ and definitely Islamophobic.
> 
> 
> 
> https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/130038
> 
> 
> Group says corporations complicit in denial of Palestinian access to water enable Israel’s apartheid regime​
> Ooooops. Nevermind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas boasts of digging up water pipes to make rockets while US sends them money for more
> 
> 
> While the people of Gaza go thirsty, Hamas digs up water pipes, fills them with propellant and explosives, preparing to fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israel365news.com


https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/130038


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hamas boasts of digging up water pipes to make rockets while US sends them money for more​While the people of Gaza go thirsty, Hamas digs up water pipes, fills them with propellant and explosives, preparing to fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.israel365news.com


That is the propaganda version.

Israel piped in the water for the greenhouses in the settlements. When Israel pulled out in 2005, they turned off the water. Those are the pipes that Hamas is digging up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> That is the propaganda version.
> 
> Israel piped in the water for the greenhouses in the settlements. When Israel pulled out in 2005, they turned off the water. Those are the pipes that Hamas is digging up.



For the last 20 years a handful of villages
supplied the materials for 100,000's rockets?

No, it's exactly you who's the mouthpiece of Yihyah Sinwar,
repeating his lousy lies word for word, that even Gazans don't buy.

They know Hamas oligarchs could only get rich by exploiting them for
cheap propaganda, to funnel billions and sell their UNRWA aid at a price.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> That is the propaganda version.
> 
> Israel piped in the water for the greenhouses in the settlements. When Israel pulled out in 2005, they turned off the water. Those are the pipes that Hamas is digging up.


You have an interest in furthering Islamic terrorist propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

Billions in welfare dollars thrown at the Islamic terrorist breeding program.


----------



## Hollie

Just a get-together to celebrate how much welfare money they stole.


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## Sixties Fan

Not too long ago, whenever Hamas or Islamic Jihad or Fatah wanted to fire up their people, they would put together a massive rally where tens of thousands could be summoned at seemingly the snap of a finger. 

Here's a Hamas rally from 2017:





An Islamic Jihad rally from 2016:





But on Thursday, The Palestinian Authority and Islamic Jihad held a rally to protest President Biden's visit to Israel.

And the turnout was pathetic.

Here was Islamic Jihad's rally:





And here is another demonstration in Ramallah:





In Gaza, with a captive audience, a couple hundred people came to a rally organized by several socialist groups.






It looks like it is not only other Arab nations who are sick of Palestinian leadership. 

Palestinians are, too.










						Used to be, Palestinian terror leaders could get automatic throngs for demonstrations.No more.
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


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## surada

Art__Allm said:


> Well, it seems that Zionists threaten with the death of our entire planet, if their regime is in danger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can you negotiate with people who have chosen to behave like "mad dogs"?
> How can you negotiate with people who threaten to destroy the entire planet?



Martin Van Cleveld is very interesting and Israel's foremost military historian.


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## Hollie

It's predictable that the Iranian mullahcrats would forge closer ties between their occupation forces (Hezbollah) in Lebanon and Hamas. With Hamas controlling a large islamic terrorist cabal in the Lebanese  gee-had training camps, a Black September style war against the Lebanese government is a greater possibility.  










						Hezbollah working with Hamas on military cooperation - Gantz
					

The defense minister warned Palestinian terror from Lebanon could lead to a 'loss of control' and a powerful response by the IDF.




					www.google.com
				




Hezbollah is working with Hamas to develop military ties and deepen Hamas's control of Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon, Defense Minister Benny Gantz warned during a state ceremony Tuesday commemorating Israeli soldiers who fell in the Second Lebanon War in 2006.


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## Sixties Fan

Shall we close this thread, please.


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## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> You have an interest in furthering Islamic terrorist propaganda.








						Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses
					

JERUSALEM – After months of intense negotiations recently culminating in a deal allowing for the transfer of Gaza's high-tech Jewish greenhouses to the Palestinians, several former Jewish residents who briefly returned to their farms told WND they were shocked to find most of their produce has...




					www.wnd.com


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM – After months of intense negotiations recently culminating in a deal allowing for the transfer of Gaza's high-tech Jewish greenhouses to the Palestinians, several former Jewish residents who briefly returned to their farms told WND they were shocked to find most of their produce has...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wnd.com



Gave you the land and the greenhouses and now they have to give you water also?
LOL!
Get your own damn water.


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM – After months of intense negotiations recently culminating in a deal allowing for the transfer of Gaza's high-tech Jewish greenhouses to the Palestinians, several former Jewish residents who briefly returned to their farms told WND they were shocked to find most of their produce has...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wnd.com


Did the islamic terrorists believe potable water service would be another of their welfare benefits?


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## Sixties Fan

Guys, CLOSE THIS  THREAD, PLEASE !!!!


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## Hollie

What's next. A temple in Riyadh?










						Saudi Arabia to open airspace to all airlines, including from Israel
					

Saudi Arabia said it would open its airspace to all air carriers, paving the way for more overflights to and from Israel, in a decision welcomed by U.S. President Joe Biden who is due to visit the kingdom on Friday.




					www.reuters.com
				




July 15 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia said it would open its airspace to all air carriers, paving the way for more overflights to and from Israel, in a decision welcomed by U.S. President Joe Biden who is due to visit the kingdom on Friday.


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## flacaltenn

*THere is no Opost on this thread. Seems like a system generated overflow from a previous thread. 
Original poster has started a "Part 3" which is where new posts should go.  *


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